# Nigger - nigga



## morgana

I'll try to transfer all this to the US:

If a white governor speaks of Harlem as "that area is a sewer, full of dirty niggers" , well this is clearly racist isn't it? (discriminating a part of the population)

If a black man says that governor is a piece of s**t, this is obviously only an insult. (from one person to a person, no stereotypes involved)

I find it quite clear, actually.


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## morgana

ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?


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## M_07

Hi, what is the feminine version of nigga?

Thanks.


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## Paulfromitaly

morgana said:


> ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?


Really bad



marzia07 said:


> Hi, what is the feminine version of nigga?
> 
> Thanks.


As far as I know, English has no genders..


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## M_07

Paulfromitaly said:


> As far as I know, English has no genders..



Thank you, I thought there was a special "word" for them


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## london calling

morgana said:


> ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?


 
Yes!

When I was a kid, we used to do what you call a "tocco":

Eeney meeney miney moe
Catch a nigger by the toe
If he hollers let him go
Eeney meeney miney moe
O-U-T spells out!

I've noticed they're using as ad advert for some car or other on TV, but it's been censured...they say "tiger" instead of "nigger".......


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## Paulfromitaly

http://www.wordreference.com/enit/nigga
http://www.wordreference.com/enit/nigger


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## M_07

Ah... capito.

"Nigga- nigger" deriva da Niger, Nigerian?


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## AngelEyes

morgana said:


> ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?


 
It's considered so bad, we mostly don't even say it in the U.S. Especially if we're white. We call it the *N-word* to just talk about the word itself and don't use it to describe any particular black person.

Please be very careful how and when you say it.

It's considered racist. More so if said by a white person. Less so if said by a black one.

I suspect that in the future this whole issue will become more and more prevalent in our lives.

*AngelEyes*


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## Alxmrphi

morgana said:


> ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?



It's one of the most offensive things you can say in the English language.


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## Paulfromitaly

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger


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## Alan7075

AngelEyes said:


> It's considered so bad, we mostly don't even say it in the U.S. Especially if we're white. We call it the *N-word* to just talk about the word itself and don't use it to describe any particular black person.
> 
> Please be very careful how and when you say it.
> 
> It's considered racist. More so if said by a white person. Less so if said by a black one.
> 
> I suspect that in the future this whole issue will become more and more prevalent in our lives.
> 
> *AngelEyes*



I've watched a lot of films (Bad boys II, just to name one) where black men call each other nigger without taking that word as an offence.

Ciao Ciao


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## Paulfromitaly

Alan7075 said:


> I've watched a lot of films (Bad boys II, just to name one) where black men call each other nigger without taking that word as an offence.
> 
> Ciao Ciao



It's not a problem if they call each other  "nigga", but white people cannot do it.


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## Alan7075

Infact that was what I gathered watching those films and I've always wondered if it was only a white-black issue or not.

Ciao Ciao


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## M_07

Paulfromitaly said:


> It's not a problem if they call each other  "nigga", but white people cannot do it.



Infatti anche nelle canzoni si dicono:
I love my nigga, sempre fra di loro però...


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## AngelEyes

Alan and Paul:

You've crystallized the problem in America by using language. 

Why should it be all right for black people to use that offensive word unoffensively, but white people can't go near it?

I personally hate the word and don't use it. I don't even like the feel of it in my brain when I write it.

But words have power and no other word has more power to generate a wave of emotional situations than this word does in the United States.

Even the black's use of the word *Whitey *is more tolerated by both races in my country than the *N-word*.

Has the depth of problems and the seriousness of using the *N-word* sunk into your Italian perception over there? 

Is there a comparable word in Italian? I mean, the Northerners look at Italians from the southern regions differently. _Maybe I'm wrong on this, but that has become my perception: that there is a personal judgment made because of where you are from._

Is there a word that delineates class and arouses negative emotional responses just by uttering it? If you can come up with such a word, then you will understand first-hand what the word *Nigger* means to us over here. And just typing it now made me feel bad.

The pronunciation of *nigga* is more a slang version of the word. I think it's more the way black people say it and may have to do with their individual accents, too. It also is spoken that way in the gangster/gangsta world.

*AngelEyes*


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## london calling

AngelEyes said:


> Alan and Paul:
> 
> You've crystallized the problem in America by using language.
> 
> Why should it be all right for black people to use that offensive word unoffensively, but white people can't go near it?
> 
> I personally hate the word and don't use it. I don't even like the feel of it in my brain when I write it.
> 
> But words have power and no other word has more power to generate a wave of emotional situations than this word does in the United States.
> 
> Even the black's use of the word *Whitey *is more tolerated by both races in my country than the *N-word*.
> 
> Has the depth of problems and the seriousness of using the *N-word* sunk into your Italian perception over there?
> 
> Is there a comparable word in Italian? I mean, the Northerners look at Italians from the southern regions differently. _Maybe I'm wrong on this, but that has become my perception: that there is a personal judgment made because of where you are from._
> 
> Is there a word that delineates class and arouses negative emotional responses just by uttering it? If you can come up with such a word, then you will understand first-hand what the word *Nigger* means to us over here. And just typing it now made me feel bad.
> 
> The pronunciation of *nigga* is more a slang version of the word. I think it's more the way black people say it and may have to do with their individual accents, too. It also is spoken that way in the gangster/gangsta world.
> 
> *AngelEyes*


 

Well said, AngelEyes! We have similar problems in GB (and in Italy - I live in the South, but I have no intention of discussing the matter on-line).
Can I suggest we close this thread now?


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## lingogal

marzia07 said:


> Ah... capito.
> 
> "Nigga- nigger" deriva da Niger, Nigerian?



Perhaps this is true, but I think a more logical explanation is that it comes from the word "negro" (from the color black) that was what black people were called when I was a child (many, many years ago). In the southern U.S., the pronunciation was often "nigro", or "nigra", which is an easy step to "nigga".The terms "black" and "African-American" are much more acceptable today.


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## Paulfromitaly

AngelEyes said:


> Has the depth of problems and the seriousness of using the *N-word* sunk into your Italian perception over there?


The N-word is offensive in Italian too: it's offensive to say "negro" when referring to black people.





> Is there a comparable word in Italian? I mean, the Northerners look at Italians from the southern regions differently. _Maybe I'm wrong on this, but that has become my perception: that there is a personal judgment made because of where you are from._


Yes: the word "terrone" (someone who comes from Southern -Italy) can be really offensive, but it's not unusual to hear people from the South use it when they are joking about their origins.


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## AngelEyes

Paulfromitaly said:


> Yes: the word "terrone" (someone who comes from Southern -Italy) can be really offensive, but it's not unusual to hear people from the South use it when they are joking about their origins.


 
This is an interesting parallel that leaks into behavior patterns. The people the offensive word pertains to are not as hesitant to use it with each other, but are incredibly offended if it's used by who they perceive to be an "outsider."

My feeling is that it needs to be condemned to such an extent that saying it by anybody will not be tolerated. This double-standard only slows down the progress we wish to make and it all comes back to word and language first - behavior second.

How we think is reflected in how we speak and write, which in turn reflects our actions.

Tell me, if a *non-terrone*  were to be running for a political office against a *terrone* and used that word in reference to him, would it be frowned upon by the citizens in general as being racist? Does it parallel our *N-word* to that extent?

*AngelEyes*

_Sorry...this seems to be veering so off-track, it's heading over into Cultural Discussions...I'll stop here.  _


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## Paulfromitaly

AngelEyes said:


> Tell me, if a *non-terrone*  were to be running for a political office against a *terrone* and used that word in reference to him, would it be frowned upon by the citizens in general as being racist? Does it parallel our *N-word* to that extent?


Definitely.
Saying something like that would mean lose all the Southerners (and I hope most on the Northerners ) votes. 
Frown upon? Much more..


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## Dr. X

marzia07 said:


> Ah... capito.
> 
> "Nigga- nigger" deriva da Niger, Nigerian?


Direi di no.
Deriva da  *negro*, che in spagnolo significa semplicemente *nero*.
Siccome in Europa erano gli spagnoli che usavano e vendevano gli africani come schiavi, il nome "negro" è stato adottato universalmente, come anche in italiano.
Col tempo, la parola "negro" ha assunto un'accezione negativa fino ad essere un'offesa, infatti nonostante fino agli anni '70 era di uso comune, oggi non è più tollerata.
Ricorderai la canzone di Edoardo Vianello "Alligalli", che diceva " ...siamo i Watussi, gli altissimi negri...", oggi sarebbe improponibile.

L'espressione  "nigger" o  "nigga", è ovviamente slang di origine americana, derivante sempre dalla parola spagnola  "negro".


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## brian

london calling said:


> Can I suggest we close this thread now?





AngelEyes said:


> _Sorry...this seems to be veering so off-track, it's heading over into Cultural Discussions...I'll stop here.  _



Hi everyone,

This thread is certainly of great linguistic value, especially to any non-native English speakers unfamiliar with these terms, which nowadays are (as we've seen) a very touchy subject, thus making it all the more important to understand their uses fully. For this reason, the thread will stay open.

However, that being said, I'd like to ask everyone to please refrain from giving personal beliefs/opinions about the broad usage of these terms. There is a difference between 1) _describing_ the usage and making suggestions to non-natives, on the one hand, and 2) stating opinions about how/why entire peoples, groups, races, etc. should or should not use the term (which, as has been mentioned, is more of a Cultural Discussions topic). 

Thanks for your attention.

brian
moderator


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## badbadger

Reading this thread has made me think of one time I have heard the N-word used to refer to people other than black people, more of just as a victimised group.

There was a scene in the Soprano's where Hesh (a jewish friend of Tony Soprano) was in dispute with a gang of black people about music rights.  One of the black group was arguing about how many black people had been used by rich white music company owners to make money for themselves and not give fair recompense to the black singers.  In response Hesh said (along the lines of):

"The Jew has been the white man's nigger for a lot longer than your people."

You really need to watch the episode to get the exact wordage but I hope you can see what is meant here...


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## raffavita

Paulfromitaly said:


> It's not a problem if they call each other  "nigga", but white people cannot do it.




Ciao a tutti,



In tal caso, quando si chiamano così tra loro, come viene tradotto??

"Negro"?

Tra loro si chiamano così?

Grazie mille a tutti.


EDIT: qui sembra che sia sinonimo di "amico/ fratello."


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## Paulfromitaly

raffavita said:


> Ciao a tutti,
> 
> 
> 
> In tal caso, quando si chiamano così tra loro, come viene tradotto??
> 
> "Negro"?
> 
> Tra loro si chiamano così?
> 
> Grazie mille a tutti.
> 
> 
> EDIT: qui sembra che sia sinonimo di "amico/ fratello."



In più di un film l'ho visto tradotto proprio come "negro".


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## raffavita

"Fratello negro"?

Sembra usato come termine di endearment.

Grazie super Paul!!


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## joe86

They call each other _nigga..._or _negro_ sometimes (which sounds like _nigro_ for us)...the word _homie_ or _brotha_ are also used...I think if you want to be politically correct you should translate that into _fratello _or_ amico._

It all comes down to a sort of ghetto language, which makes sense for them, but perhaps doesn't for us...I don't know if I make myself understood...but calling a "brother" of yours _negro_ could be considered as offensive in white people's view, but as long as the thing remains among them everything is fine...it's when a white man does the same that problems crop up...


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## mjted

morgana said:


> ooops sorry! Is nigger  really that bad?


Definitely. Say it in front of a group of African-Americans and you'll be lucky to walk away alive, that's how bad it is.


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## raffavita

joe86 said:


> It all comes down to a sort of ghetto language, which makes sense for them, but perhaps doesn't for us...I don't know if I make myself understood...but calling a "brother" of yours _negro_ could be considered as offensive in white people's view, but as long as the thing remains among them everything is fine...it's when a white man does the same that problems crop up...



Yes, Joe86, it is perfectly clear.


Thank you very much, everybody!


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## danalto

Ritengo che la stessa cosa accada in Italia, con la *N-word*  ovvero la traduzione *negro*.
Ho diversi amici di colore che si chiamano così fra di loro, e se fatto in modo scherzoso anche un bianco può rivolgersi ad un coloured(suo amico) chiamandolo *negro*.

In quanto alla traduzione, prendendo ad esempio il contesto che serve a me ora, ovvero le strade di Baltimora di *The Wire f*requentate da spacciatori e ladri, direi che forse *fratello *sarebbe più indicato (quando i personaggi di colore parlano fra di loro, intendo)


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## MissBehave

The word nigger/nigga is off limits to non-black people in America, but for black people "nigga" is perfectly acceptable as a (...post-racial?) term of endearment... In fact it can be used interchangeably with "brotha"...

E.g. "I love Maxwell; he's a cool brotha/nigga."


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## Paulfromitaly

> *Moderation note:
> Please take the time to read all the previous posts before adding a new one so that to avoid repeating the same concept/information over and over again.
> Thanks*


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## albe_

Paulfromitaly said:


> Definitely.
> Saying something like that would mean lose all the Southerners (and I hope most on the Northerners ) votes.
> Frown upon? Much more..



I am note really sure about your opinion. The *T-word* D) in Italy is widely more accepted and used by both northerners and southerners. In my opinion is not possible to make a parallel between the *N-word* and the *T-word*, because we are talking about two completely different hystorical backgrounds. On one side we have slavery, persecution, ku-klux klan, segregation and on the other we have only difficult social-economic conditions, different traditions and nothing more.
Ok, it could be quite strange to hear "Terrone" said by a politic. But the word is widely used even in TV shows, movies... and I (Lombard and definitely NOT racist) often use it toward southeners, even if I barely know them... and all I've ever got is a smile.


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## Ouendan

albe_ said:


> The *T-word* D) in Italy is widely more accepted and used by both northerners and *southerners*.


We don't use the word "terroni", at least in Naples and its region. Indeed it's not even a word being in neapolitan language, which we mostly use in colloquial situations.
That said, I do think that the "T-word" is very different from the N-word.


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## albe_

Ouendan said:


> We don't use the word "terroni", at least in Naples and its region. Indeed it's not even a word being in neapolitan language, which we mostly use in colloquial situations.
> That said, I do think that the "T-word" is very different from the N-word.



And I think also that the N-word, when used in Europe, has a softer connotation of the N-word used overseas (it still remains very bad).

I think we can make a parallel with jokes, irony about Jewish. They have a completely different weight according to the country where they take place.
While they are very common in USA, they are almost forbidden in Germany.


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## MissBehave

Back to the N-word... *Terrone* is derogatory, no doubt, BUT it is in no way comparable to *nigger*.

Nigger is a word SO loaded that even I, who have African-American friends, will not use it even as a joke towards them. It is just TOO painful as it evokes images of Ku-Klux-Klan, lynchings, hangings and all that came along with their history of slavery. NIGGER was the ultimate dehumanizing word. And despite some progress on the racial front..., to this day, discrimination against blacks in America is rampant.

Keep in mind, that it is a word particular to the _American_ black and its overwhelming sting is connected to their unique history.

Interestingly, Obama has been accused of not being "black enough". The reason for this is not so much because he is bi-racial,  (bi-racial African-Americans are also considered "niggers" by racists) but because he is _not_ a descendant of slaves. _That_ is truly the qualifying criterion. Obama defended his "blackness" via his wife... "her ancestors were slaves and she carries that legacy in her." 

(But then, Berlusconi almost shattered everything by calling him "bronzato" !!!)


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