# religieuse au chocolat



## dedelia

Hi
 
what is the english for "une religieuse au chocolat" please? Can we say a chocolate religieuse?
 
thanks


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## joleen

Never heard it, you would have to describe it if you want the person to understand


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## dedelia

oh sorry,

it is a french pastry, it looks like a nun hat (i mean the shape of the cake)

thanks


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## joleen

I know, I know  I was just saying that if you want to write it, you will have to explain it to your reader because if you just say "chocolate religieuse" to someone who's English, he won't understand.
Oh, I do know what is it...yummy (I'm drooling now  )


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## Nil-the-Frogg

Well, AFAIK, it rather look like that:http://www.laduree.fr/public_en/produits/images/patisserie_religieuse2.jpg


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## dedelia

oh sorry, my head is going to explode 'cos of too much thinking!!!i did not understand. But i can not explain the word because it is for a subtitle, so can i say chocolate religieuse? what do you think?


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## pyan

I don't know an English name for it. "A small chocolate cake shaped like a nun's hat" is how I would describe it.

(I didn't know it was a nun's hat. I thought it was shaped like a little round nun! )


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## Nil-the-Frogg

Either put it in French or wait for the correct English name. Would be better IMHO.


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## joleen

If it is for subtitles, I guess it has to be short, you might have to just say "Nun-like chocolate puff (pastry)" or even get rid of the chocolate if it is not necessary. Does it help?


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## orangenormal

For specialty items like these, I think it would be safe to use the French name. For example, "I'd like to buy a _religieuse au chocolat_, please."


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## dedelia

Thanks to everyboy for your quick answers


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## pyan

dedelia said:


> oh sorry, my head is going to explode 'cos of too much thinking!!!i did not understand. But i can not explain the word because it is for a subtitle, so can i say chocolate religieuse? what do you think?


"Religeuse" would not work for the general public, I think.  It might work for an audience of Francophiles or food lovers.  "Chocolate nuns's hat cake" sounds ugly but would be understood..


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## Aoyama

"une religieuse au chocolat" is sometimes confused with *profiterolles* , the shape is different, but the material is the same , two _choux à la crème_ coated with chocolate.
I would keep it as in French, a *religieuse au chocolat* or a chocolate religieuse.


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## emma42

So would I.  If I _had _to translate, I would say "a chocolate nun", even though it's only a question of the hat, not the whole nun (!)


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## joleen

If you told me you were going to eat a chocolate nun, I would be dumbstruck


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## alisonp

I thought it was a head and body, not a hat?  Anyway, I think I'd go for 'chocolate _réligieuse_' and possibly put as much of an explanation as you think fitting in the context in brackets (e.g. "chocolate-coated choux pastry" or something).  (What's the lighter brown flavour - is it coffee?  I don't think I've ever had one.)


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## joleen

alisonp said:


> I thought it was a head and body, not a hat? Anyway, I think I'd go for 'chocolate *réligieuse'*  and possibly put as much of an explanation as you think fitting in the context in brackets (e.g. "chocolate-coated choux pastry" or something). (What's the lighter brown flavour - is it coffee? I don't think I've ever had one.)


 
Careful, There is no accent at _religieuse ._
She can't give any explanations in brackets because she is working on subtitles. I would use the french word if it has no other impact in the rest of the dialogue (no joke around it etc..)


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## dedelia

ok thank you very much


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## alisonp

joleen said:


> Careful, There is no accent at _religieuse ._


Oops.  I do get a little carried away with the acutes at times. Thanks 



> She can't give any explanations in brackets because she is working on subtitles. I would use the french word if it has no other impact in the rest of the dialogue (no joke around it etc..)


Ah, in that case ignore what I said - I didn't realise we were talking subtitles.  In that case I'd italicise the French word, I think.  After all, we still talk about croissants, gateaux and meringues in English, and have merely anglicised the pronunciation, so I think on that basis we'd keep the less-familiar terms such as palmier, pain au chocolat and religieuse in French.  And yes, I see what you mean about possible puns and the like.  If there *is* one of those, something a bit more creative might be required, even changing the name completely.


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## Zee wired Amoeba

If someone said they were going to eat a chocolate nun, I just might think it was a potential scene in an anti-Catholic porn film featuring black actresses. But that's just me, perhaps. 

The bigger question is what to do with culinary terms for items that don't exist in the popular culture of the target country. I think the only safe way is to keep the original name and put a description in parenthesis, but I'm not a professional translator... You tend to get funny results otherwise. Most english speakers would say "chocolate croissant", as chocolate pain (douleur) is unknown outside the S&M circles and also sounds funny...


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## wildan1

the closest thing in AE to a reliegieuse au chocolat is a chocolate cream puff (except in the US there is no extra "head" on top of it)

if it's a subtitle for a film you have limited words, so I would suggest you just say "I'll take the chocolate cream puff"

PS: We don't say "chocolate nun," but if I heard that it would suggest to me a block of chocolate in the shape of a nun, and not a pastry!


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## liulia

I don't know if this is useful in any way,  but a nun's "hat" is called a wimple.


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## Cath.S.

wildan1 said:


> the closest thing in AE to a reliegieuse au chocolat is a chocolate cream puff (except in the US there is extra "head" on top of it)
> 
> if it's a subtitle for a film you have limited words, so I would suggest you just say "I'll take the chocolate cream puff"
> 
> PS: We don't say "chocolate nun," but if I heard that it would suggest to me a block of chocolate in the shape of a nun, and not a pastry!


I totally agree with your translation, Wildan. With subtitles, simplest is best.


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## liulia

Yes, Wildan - I too like it very much. "I'll take the chocolate cream puff" too!


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## emma42

I wouldn't say "chocolate cream puff" because "puff" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "poof" (somewhat derogatory term for "gay man").

Yes, for subtitles I would say "chocolate_ religieuse_".


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## Cath.S.

emma42 said:


> I wouldn't say "chocolate cream puff" because "puff" is an alternative spelling and pronunciation for "poof" (somewhat derogatory term for "gay man").
> 
> Yes, for subtitles I would say "chocolate_ religieuse_".


Really, Emma?
Do you really think people should stop calling those pastries _puffs_?
Do you really think that in a movie (obviously the scene is set in a cake shop or during a meal), there would be any anbiguity?


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## jcmmarie

au moindre regard posé sur une religieuse au chocolat… 
 
"a chocolate fanatic" ?
 
This is part of a book review on a book about weight loss.


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## Already-Seen

I've found the translation "chocolate choux pastry" for religieuse au chocolat. 
You could probably translate by "chocolate éclair" even if technically those are different (= the recipe is the same but the shape isn't)
I also found "chocolate choux pastry filled with cream and covered in chocolate sauce" (an explanation more than a translation).


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## Squiggle

According to Harraps it is a "cream puff" (it can come in various flavours).

Just to say "chocolate nun" or any variation on that does NOT work in English. Also nuns don't have "hats" in English. A "nun's hat" does not conjure up a specific image. They usually wear wimples!


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## Aoyama

In fact (but that would be difficult to render in a few words in subtitles) a "religieuse" (au café or au chocolat) is simply a round "éclair", in two levels, one placed on top of the other, with some white cream around (but the inside is chocolate or coffee cream, so "cream puff" is not exactly what it is).


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## Itisi

For the sake of brevity, perhaps you could say 'chocolate éclair', as it's the same thing with a different shape, and people know what they are.


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## Aoyama

Brevity may go against clarity here, because "éclair au chocolat" is one thing, "religieuse au chocolat" another, even if close. "Round chocolate éclair" is one way to explain what it is, but maybe not a good written translation.


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## wildan1

In AE "an éclair" (yes, we commonly use this term) is always long, never round. The round ones are always "cream puffs."


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## Aoyama

Cream puffs, here : http://www.google.fr/images?hl=fr&rlz=1T4ACPW_frFR368FR368&q=%22cream+puffs.%22&um=1&ie=UTF-8&source=univ&sa=X&ei=v_djTcyQOoOv8gOrvdjxCA&ved=0CEIQsAQ are closer to "chou(x) à la crème".
Religieuse au chocolat, here :
http://www.google.fr/images?hl=fr&r...v&sa=X&ei=GPhjTan_O4iV8QPb5LXxCA&ved=0CCwQsAQ , for the sake of culinary clarity ...


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## Lotache

Calling a religieuse a cream puff sounds blasphemous to me.


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## Aoyama

Pâtisserie wise, absolutely ...


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## Squiggle

Very clear and very yummy!
But the question is how to translate religieuse when you cannot give a 10-word explanation. If you compare the photos, Religieuses look pretty much like a big cream puff with a smaller cream puff on top of it. They are not always chocolate flavoured (the one in my translation is parma violet for info). If I use cream puff the reader understands what I am talking about  (puff pastry filled with cream) well enough to know whether they want to order it or not. The chocolate/parma violet etc is an extra detail.


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## Lotache

Selon moi certaines choses liées à la culture d'un pays doivent garder leur appellation si elles n'ont pas qu'équivalent... 
Après, selon à qui tu t'adresses et à l'importance de l'objet (la religieuse ici) dans le contexte, ca peut changer.


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## Transfer_02

Can I join in?

In British English a puff pastry is not made of choux pastry, it's made of puff pastry. Choux pastry and puff pastry are two different things.

You could also say "a chocolate choux bun"


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## wildan1

In AE we call _pâte à choux _either _choux dough_ or _cream puff dough. _The outcome is _a cream puff shell._

PS: Yes, quite different from _puff pastry dough - pâte feuilletée_


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## Transfer_02

But "cream puff" to a Brit would probably be a biscuit as in "Jacob's lemon cream puffs"  ie: two pieces of puff pastry biscuit sandwiched with lemon cream.  No choux.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Salut,

La semaine dernière, alors que je voulais parler de ce délicieux et diététique dessert  (_chocolate nun_ ) à un Anglais, il m'a certifié (après lui avoir montré la chose) qu'il appelait ça _profiterole_. Je me suis insurgée en vain, il est resté droit dans ses bottes...


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## SunnyS

wildan1 said:


> if it's a subtitle for a film you have limited words, so I would suggest you just say "I'll take the *chocolate cream puff*"



This sounds like something anyone could understand. 

For a slightly more educated audience, I would suggest: a large chocolate profiterole.


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## Aoyama

I would go, like Lotache, for "religieuse", as it is. The word is close enough to English to be kept as it is. We do say in French "muffin", even "doughnut" (different from "beignet") and "brownie", not to speak about cookies and ... sandwich.


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## Transfer_02

I think profiteroles are filled with fresh cream. Éclairs and Réligieuses are filled with a crème pâtissière - usually coffee or chocolate. No?


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## Aoyama

Profiteroles are filled with crème pâtissière (that is _vanilla _cream or "custard" cream), religieuses are filled, as you said, with a coffee or chocolate cream, depending on the kind of religieuse. That is also another difference with "cream puffs", which I think are filled with "cream" or "vanilla cream".


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## Wodwo

You always have to bear in mind what the translation is for and what the target audience really need to know, how much education is appropriate in any given instance, whether, for example, it is your duty to tell them, whether or not they actually care, that a _religieuse_ is made with choux pastry, chocolate topping and a particular filling involving eggs and milk known as _crème pâtissière_, or whether, in a film scene involving two girls buying a cake in a shop during which one of them says something insignificant and self-explanatory, but the audience needs a subtitle so as not to feel cheated, just putting 'I'll have one of those, please' is perfectly sufficient. 

Of course if it really matters that she's bought a _religieuse_ and that it's a cake made of choux pastry etc. etc. then fair enough, but I bet in this case it didn't.


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## Aoyama

You're perfectly right that in the realm of subtitles, concision is the key word and culinary subtilities are impedimenta. But the original question doesn't speak about subtitles.


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## Wodwo

Aoyama said:


> You're perfectly right that in the realm of subtitles, concision is the key word and culinary subtilities are impedimenta. But the original question doesn't speak about subtitles.



Actually, if you look back to the original exchange with dedelia right at the beginning, on page 1 of this discussion, you'll see that it was about a subtitle, and the subtitle question has recurred throughout, as in SunnyS's more recent post. That said, the principle of pertinence applies to every case of translation, from academic exercises at one extreme to advertising slogans at the other.

It also occurs to me, again in the context of subtitles, that having foreign words in italics is only justified if the word itself is of importance in the film. Otherwise, it will distract subtitle readers away from the images, which is the opposite of what's required.


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## Aoyama

You're right, I found that. But (but), I wonder what dedelia means by "subtitle", is it really for a movie ? If it is, your argument is pertinent.


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