# without + pronoun + verb



## 涼宮

Good afternoon!

Does Polish use the same structure as English for saying ''without + pronoun + verb''?

For instance:

He got me pregnant on purpose *without me knowing*.

On zapłodnił/spłodził mnie z rozmysłem *beze mnie wiedzieć*


Thanks in advance!


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## LilianaB

Yes, Polish uses similar constructions, except the pronoun has to be a possessive pronoun. On to zrobil bez mojej wiedzy. Your translation is unfortunatelly wrong.


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## Stardusd

Hi!
I don't think that both languages must have the same rules.
I would write this way- On zapłodnił mnie  z intencją  aby nie wiedziałam.


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## Stardusd

Hi! Liliana B
I don't think WIEDZA  is a verb. 
My reply is to Liliana B #2


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## LilianaB

_Wiedza_ is a noun but it has exactly the same function as the gerund used in the English example. _Wiedza_ is a noun corresponding to wiedzieć, which is a verb. Both languages do not have to have the same rules. Your translation does not sound natural, but the sentence is stange in English to begin with.


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## kknd

verb _spłodzić_ means 'beget, father, sire' which has dual meaning to _zapłodnić_, 'fertilize, impregnate, make pregnant'.  i think that it should be translated as _Uczynił mnie brzemienną celowo, bez mojej świadomości/wiedzy._; i guess that gerund _knowing_ has slightly different (more active) meaning than noun _knowledge_ which could be (probably, please prove me wrong if so) used here in sentence similar to 'he got me pregnant on purpose without my knowledge.' maybe there is just difference in those phrases which i'm not aware of—could someone put more light onto it, please?

more common sentence with roughly the same meaning would be _Nie wiedziałam, że celowo zrobił mi dziecko._ or something along those lines…


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## Stardusd

Liliana B
My opinion is that we can't translate to the letter some languages and keep the same idea.
OK LiliannaB- I thought better.

My reply is to LiliannaB#5


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## LilianaB

My sentence is not a translation of this sentence. It is just an illustration of the construction the OP  was asking about. I do not understand his sentence in English well, so I did not attempt to translate it into Polish. The main question was about the grammatical construction. By the way, my sentence is also a translation of the phrase he was asking about and which he used in his original sentence.


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## dreamlike

涼宮 said:


> He got me pregnant on purpose *without me knowing*.
> On zapłodnił (impregnated, inseminated)/spłodził mnie z rozmysłem *beze mnie wiedzieć*



There's a flaw in logic. How a man can impregnate a woman without her knowing? I can't conceive of it - even if a man haven't used condom, a woman would know. If a man, during the intercourse, haven't used the method known as "Coitus interruptus", a woman would know. It's not conceivable to me. 

Anyway, the phrase we use is _"bez czyjejś wiedzy". 
_
*(1) She entered my room, without me knowing/without my knowing it. *- Weszła do mojego pokoju bez mojej wiedzy. 
*(2) Unbeknown to me, he arranged a meeting with her.* - Umówił z nią spotkanie bez mojej wiedzy.


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## Sobakus

LilianaB said:


> Yes, Polish uses similar constructions, except the pronoun has to be a possessive pronoun. On to zrobil bez mojej wiedzy. Your translation is unfortunatelly wrong.


      Technically speaking, the topicstarter asked if there was a "without + pronoun + verb" construction in Polish, and there obviously isn't. In this case "knowing" can be replaced by a noun without any significant change of meaning, but in many cases the whole sentence will have to be rephrased, for ex. "without me doing/cooking/seeing/saying/<insert just about any verb here> anything".


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## LilianaB

In Slavic languages, including Polish, English gerunds are often expressed by nouns which come from verbs. There might be a special name for this kind of a noun. I think they are called: odczasownikowe in Polish. There are not too many constructions in Polish which are equivalent to constructions in English. This one is somehow similar. In fact a gerund is also a noun from the point of view of its function.


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## Stardusd

Nothing to view here


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## 涼宮

Thank you all of you! Well, I didn't make up the example, I saw it on internet. And I think the girl who wrote that tried to say that they weren't planning on having a baby and he didn't use condom without she knowing of his decision.

So, the formula is bez + possessive + noun? But what about in the following example?

Everything worked out without me doing nothing about it. 

*Liliana*, I think that it's not exactly a gerund what you see in English but rather the rule that says '' all verb after a preposition uses the -ing form''. If it weren't because of that, I think you would see an infinitive. For example in Spanish, that very structure is: without + pronoun (nominative) + infinitive. 

Thanks again!


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## LilianaB

It is a gerund: a verb with an _-ing _ending fuctioning as a noun.


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## majlo

"Uczynił mnie brzemienną"? I can't possibly imagine any native speaker utter it. 

I agree it should be "bez mojej wiedzy".


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## dreamlike

涼宮 said:


> And I think the girl who wrote that tried to say that they weren't planning on having a baby and he didn't use condom without she knowing of his decision.


 Then, to my mind, she failed in her attempts. The way she put it implies what I said.


			
				majlo said:
			
		

> "Uczynił mnie brzemienną"? I can't possibly imagine any native speaker utter it.



 Neither can I. The word "brzemienna" has long fallen out of use.


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## Sobakus

涼宮 said:


> But what about in the following example?
> 
> Everything worked out without me doing nothing about it.


 Rephrase it in English and then translate, for example "choć ja nić dla tego nie zrobiła", or maybe "bez mojego udziału" or something (don't quote me on these though!)


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## LilianaB

Everything worked out without me doing *anything* about it.  Wszytko się dobrze skończylo i niczego nie musiałem w tym celu robić. Wszystko dobrze sie skończyło bez mojej interwencji or udzialu( udziału sounds more cumbersome, in my opinion). Wszystko się dobrze skonczyło chociaż niczego w tym celu nie zrobiłem.


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## kknd

majlo said:


> "Uczynił mnie brzemienną"? I can't possibly imagine any native speaker utter it.


maybe you'll be shocked but just try to imagine such a jester (especially in a playful mood) as me and you have one!


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