# Persian: post office



## az50

Hello everyone. Can someone tell me what is the Farsi word for 'post office' is it پست or پستخانه? I was writing "اين شھر یك پستخانه ى مدرن لازم دارد" but a native speaker corrected me and said that it should be اين شھر یك پست مدرن لازم دارد. But the dictionary say the former!

By the way, I meant "This city needs a modern post office."


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## Treaty

Hi,
It should be اداره پست (_edāre-ye post_): این شهر یک اداره پست مدرن نیاز دارد
پستخانه is dated and پست means "postal system" in your corrected sentence.


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## az50

خیلی متشکم


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## Dr. JCVRD

Hi
To me "پستخانه" sounds very old and archaic. As Treaty said, nowadays we use "اداره پست" or "اداره ی پست".

"این شهر یک اداره پست مدرن نیاز دارد."


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## az50

Dr. JCVRD said:


> nowadays we use "اداره پست" or "اداره ی پست".



What is the difference between the two versions?


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## Dr. JCVRD

az50 said:


> What is the difference between the two versions?


No difference. They're actually the same and would be pronounced as "Edare(h) - ye - Post".

That *"ی"* between *"اداره"* and *"پست"* is used to make the two words related to one another; maybe something like *"of"* in English;

"پنجره ی اتاق"          "the window of the room"
"پایه ی صندلی"         "the leg of the chair".

Of course the* "ی"* in Persian and* "of"* in English are not completely equal, but at least these two examples might give you an idea of what I'm talking about. In Persian, people might like to write this* "ی"* so that the right and correct pronunciation would be more clear or they might choose to drop it since every native Persian speaker simply knows how to pronounce this term correctly.


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## az50

That is similar to how some people will write نامه اى to make it clear that they mean a/one letter, while others will write نامه and leave it to the reader to figure out whether they mean the letter (nāme) or a/one letter (nāme-i). Still others will write نامۂ to make it clear that they mean a/one letter.


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## Dr. JCVRD

az50 said:


> That is similar to how some people will write نامه اى to make it clear that they mean a/one letter, while others will write نامه and leave it to the reader to figure out whether they mean the letter (nāme) or a/one letter (nāme-i). Still others will write نامۂ to make it clear that they mean a/one letter.


There is a little difference between them.

"*نامه ای*" is nearly equal to "*یک نامه*" or "*a letter*".
"*نامه*" is a single noun meaning "*letter*"
But "*نامۂ*" is the other version of "*نامه ی*". They're the same. To the best of my knowledge, people mostly used the version "*نامۂ*" before, but nowadays they also might use the second version instead. But remember! Using either the first or the second version doesn't mean that they are equal to "*نامه*" or "*یک نامه*" or "*نامه ای*". When you use "*ی*" after "*نامه*" (first version) or "*ء*" above the last letter of "*نامه*" (above *ه*) (second version), you're actually going to need a second word after it to let it make a meaningful phrase or it (I mean "*نامه ی*") would be lame by itself alone. Take a look at these examples:

"نامه ی من"    
"نامه ی اداری"    
"نامه ی عاشقانه"    
"نامه ی الکترونیکی" (meaning email)    
"نامه ی کوتاه"    
"نامه ی"


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## truce

I remember when I entered school, at the first grade of elementary school, we were taught to use "ء" to connect words, ending with "ه" to another.
But over the past years this law changed to the using of "ی" rather than "ء" to connect words, ending with "ه" to another.
Old generations still prefer using "ء" or nothing whilst new ones prefer using "ی".


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## az50

Dr. JCVRD: Thank you, but نامۂ can mean "one/a letter", just like نامہ ای. They are pronounced the same way. Just look at the picture.


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## truce

az50 said:


> Dr. JCVRD: Thank you, but نامۂ can mean "one/a letter", just like نامہ ای. They are pronounced the same way. Just look at the picture.


Seems that page of book contains error. The correct pronunciations and concepts are as below:
نامه ی/نامۂ (naame-ye) >>> the letter of
نامہ ای (naame-ee) >>> one / a letter


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## Dr. JCVRD

az50 said:


> Dr. JCVRD: Thank you, but نامۂ can mean "one/a letter", just like نامہ ای. They are pronounced the same way. Just look at the picture.


Actually the file you've attached here is saying the same thing as I said. You might misunderstood my explanation just because there are many exceptions in Persian Language. When a word ends to "ه" like
"نامه"
"پنجره"
"مغازه"
"خنده"
"گریه"
"لبه"
"قفسه"
"آینه"
and you see a "ی" after it or "ء" above the last letter (ه), it's to connect these words to the next word or to make them related to one another somehow. Look at these examples:

"نامه ی طولانی" [Name(h) - ye - Toolani] meaning long letter

"پنجره ی اتاق" [Panjere(h) - ye - Otagh] meaning the window of the room

"مغازه ی بزرگ" [Maghaze(h) - ye - Bozorg] meaning big store or big shop

"خنده ی بلند" [Khande(h) - ye - Boland] meaning loud laughter

"گریه ی شیطان" [Gerye(h) - ye - Sheytan] meaning devil's cry. It's the name of a Chinese song.

"لبه ی دیوار" [Labe(h) - ye - Divar] meaning the edge of the wall

and so on...

But in some other words that end to a quiescent letter, adding a "ی" to the last letter is used to make that word indefinite. Like:

کتاب + ی = کتابی meaning a/one book

مداد + ی = مدادی meaning a/one pencil

روز + ی = روزی meaning a/one day (It also can have some other meanings in different concepts)

شب + ی = شبی meaning a/one night

And so on...

I know it might be a little difficult to figure out these rules and exceptions. But I'll be here if you have any other questions or ambiguity. Good Luck!


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## PersoLatin

Just adding the plural forms:

هدیه gift/present
هدیه‌ای a gift
هدیه‌هایی the gifts

کتاب book
کتابی a book
کتاب‌هایی the books

نامه letter
نامه‌ی تو your letter
نامه‌ای که نوشتی the (one) letter you wrote
نامه‌های تو your letters
نامه‌هایی که فرستادی the letters you sent


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## az50

I think that کتابھائی means "books", not "the books". The latter would be "کتابھا". But you would know better, of course.
Also, I think that "The letter you wrote" (e.g. Where is the letter you wrote?) would be "نامه ای که نوشتیدش کجاست؟". I mean that you forget the ش to add at the end of the verb.


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## Dr. JCVRD

az50 said:


> I think that کتابھائی means "books", not "the books". The latter would be "کتابھا". But you would know better, of course.
> Also, I think that "The letter you wrote" (e.g. Where is the letter you wrote?) would be "نامه ای که نوشتیدش کجاست؟". I mean that you forget the ش to add at the end of the verb.


"کتاب ها" and "کتاب هایی" both can be translated as "the books" based on the concept and what you want to say.

Example:

"کتاب ها گم شدند."
The books are lost.

"کتاب هایی که به من دادی گم شدند."
The books you gave me are lost

Also sometimes we must consider the "کتاب ها" equal with "books" based on the concept again.

Example:

Books are your friends = "کتاب ها دوستان شما هستند"

and not "کتاب هایی دوستان شما هستند"

About adding the "ش" after the verb, you can use it or not in colloquial speaking, but in formal writing I suggest that you DO NOT use it.

Example:

(informal)
 ?کتابی که به من دادی کجاس
?کتابی که بهم دادی کجاس
?کتابی که به من دادی کو
?کتابی که بهم دادی کو
and you also might like to add "ش" to the last letter of "دادی" and keep going as I wrote above.

But in formal and polite version, you'd better say:
?کتابی که به من دادید کجاست


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## az50

What about in:

ابلاغ پیامی دوستانه

Should it be pronoucned eblagh e piami e dustane? Because there is no ى between the second and third word nor is there a ء.
PS I think it means "conveying a message of friendship".


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## truce

What you are talking about is, the words in the middle of a phrase ending with "ه" to be connected to another word. But there is no word in the middle of that phrase ending with "ه" to be connected to next word.

ابلاغ پیامی دوستانه >>> eblaagh-e-payaami doostaane


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## az50

Ok.


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## Dr. JCVRD

Also the words that end with "ی" as their original spelling and not as a suffix are supposed to need a "ye" in pronunciation if you want to connect that word to the next word. Example:

"صندلی" (meaning chair)   صندلی من [Sandali - ye - Man] (meaning my chair)
"سینی" (meaning tray)      سینی استیل [Sini - ye - Estil] (meaning steel tray)


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## PersoLatin

Dr. JCVRD said:


> Also the words that end with "ی" as their original spelling and not as a suffix are supposed to *need a "ye" in pronunciation* if you want to connect that word to the next word. Example:
> 
> "صندلی" (meaning chair) صندلی من [Sandali - ye - Man] (meaning my chair)
> "سینی" (meaning tray) سینی استیل [Sini - ye - Estil] (meaning steel tray)


Do you not mean 'need an "e"', so _sandali-e/sandalie man, _or_ sini-e/sinie estil_ but "ye" in _haftéye digé?_


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## Dr. JCVRD

PersoLatin said:


> Do you not mean 'need an "e"', so _sandali-e/sandalie man, _or_ sini-e/sinie estil_ but "ye" in _haftéye digé?_


It could be correct as well but I think when someone pronounces the phrase fast, it's very close to be heard as "ye".


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## PersoLatin

^ I agree but that 'ye' sound is formed by combination of ی in صندلی and the ezâfé/اضافه.


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## Alfaaz

Relevant threads and quotes that provide more detailed information about _izaafah _(_types, history, etc._):

Persian: کسره‌ی اضافه

Information about the different types of _izaafats _was discussed.



			
				Alfaaz said:
			
		

> Extra information:
> 
> 
> 
> اضافه: ۱- اضافة ملکی مثل: کتابِ حمید، خانة من ۲- اضافة تخصیصی مثل: میز مطالعه، پنجرة کلاس ۳- اضافة توضیحی مثل: کشور ایران، قارة آفریقا، کتاب «گلستان» ۴- اضافة بیانی (جنسی) مثل: لباس پشم، جام طلا، سینی نقره ۵- اضافة تشبیهی مثل: لب لعل، قد سرو، لعل لب، سروِ قد ۶- اضافة استعاری مثل: دست روزگار، دیوار جدایی ۷- اضافة اقترانی مثل: دستِ ادب (دستِ ادب بر سینه نهادم)، زانوی تلمذ ۸- اضافة بُنُوَت (فرزندی) مثل: رستمِ زال
> 
> 
> 
> Quote from: Urdu: لیلاۓ آرزو
> 
> 
> 
> Alfaaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Here (post # 99) is a list of nine types of _izaafats_ in addition to other useful information that Urdu students or enthusiasts might find helpful and interesting.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It seems there are different/alternative terms used for some of the _izaafats_, different methods of classification, and there is also اضافتِ مقلوبی - which could make a total of ten forms of _izaafats_.
Click to expand...




			
				Alfaaz said:
			
		

> ... I'm not sure if _such links/references _are allowed, but here is a _thread from another forum _with a list including explanations and examples: اضافه و انواع آن.


Urdu: typing/writing an izaafat with words ending in ا ,ی ,ہ

Apart from the information quoted below, there was also a discussion/debate about whether it should be شوخیِ تحریر or شوخئِ تحریر.



			
				Qureshpor said:
			
		

> ... Now a bit of back ground to the izaafat. This, as you would know, originally comes from the Arabic language. The boy's book would be: كتابُ ٱلوَلَدِ. You will notice the final "zer". It is this zer which actually gives the "kaa/ke/kii" meaning of Urdu "laRke kii kitaab". The Persian language expressed this idea by...کتابِ پسر.* Coincidentally, it is the zer again that imparts the kaa/ke/kii meaning. This construction in reality is kitaab [-i-pisar] and not [kitaab-i-] pisar.
> 
> Now, believe it or not, in the good old days the izaafat had the sound of "i" as in the way we pronounce "dil". You can hear this pronunciation in Tajik Persian and I can send a link to interested parties of a Tajik song which demonstrates this pronunciation. In time the pronunciation of the izaafat i became more like our baRii ye and this is why in Roman -e- is used by most people and the Iranians have gone a step further and pronounce dil as del (and gul as gol....which is not quite the same as our gol for round!). When the word ends with an alif, we use a baRii ye with a hamza on top but the Iranians just use the chhoTii ye.
> 
> Classical Persian had the sound equivalent to our baRii ye and in Modern Persian this has almost totally disappeared, except in the Persian of Afghanistan and the way it is represented by people from the subcontinent.
> kitaab (book) > kitaabe (a book) کتابے
> A red book > کتابے سرخ
> kitaabhaa (books) کتابہا > kitaabhaae (some books)کتابہائے
> Some red books > کتابہائے سرخ
> The red book > کتاب ِ سرخ
> 
> The red books > کتابہائے سرخ
> 
> You will notice that there is no difference between "Some red books" and "The red books" in the way izaafat is often represented in the Urdu speaking world. But careful writers do use an alternative means.
> 
> ہے کس قدر ہلاک ِ فریب ِ وفاے گل
> بلبل کی کاروبار پہ ہیں خنده ہاے گل
> 
> Ghalib
> 
> The following is a well known Ghalib shi3r
> 
> بیاورید گر اینجا بود زباندانے
> غریبِ شہر سخنہائے گفتنی دارد
> 
> laa'o agar yahaaN hove ko'ii bhii zabaan jaan_ne vaalaa
> shahr ke ajnabii ke paas *kuchh kahne-jogii baateN* haiN
> 
> Here, it could be سخنہاے گفتنی which means (the) things worth saying as opposed to some things worth saying. What did Ghalib actually say?
> 
> To summarize:
> 
> tuu aur aaraa'ish-i-xam-i-kaakul
> maiN aur andeshah-haa-i-duur-daraaz
> 
> Ghalib


 Note: The material quoted above was presented only as extra information, just in case anyone might be interested! As mentioned in the quote above, there might be some differences between _Classical, Afghani, Pak-o-Hind Persian_ and _modern Irani Persian_. Apart from those differences, it could also be that some of the information isn't accurate!? Therefore, the Persian speaking forum members could provide the best guidance!


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