# Hic Armis Bruti Scoti Stant Hic Cruce Tuti



## AndrasSkot

Topic:  Hic Armis Bruti Scoti Stant Hic Cruce Tuti
Added by Cagey, moderator 

This is from the medieval coat of arms of Stirling.

There is some discussion on the Stirling Wikipedia webpage and the background story along with some different lettering/spelling.

The context can be found on these pages:
The history of Stirlingshire
Shearer's Stirling : historical and descriptive, with extracts from Burgh records and Exchequer Roll volumes, 1264 to 1529, view of Stirling in 1620, and an old plan of Stirling

The language around the Latin phrase is Scots which is tricky in itself unless you read a lot of Robert Burns.


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## Scholiast

saluete amici (necnon consobrini Angli)!

The Latin—in "classical" hexameters, but flawed (no skilled Latin poet would have permitted the tetrasyllabic ending _cruce tuti_ in the second line of the distich)—means "This cross demarcates the English from the Scots, separated here by the arms of [Robert the] Bruce: by the cross, the Scots stand safe here". 

An enquiring mind may wonder here at the purported translation by (I presume) William Bellenden (or Ballantyne)—a scholar and diplomat in the employ of King James VI and I to the court of Paris—which appears to bear no resemblance to the sense of the Latin. "An extraordinary rendering indeed".

Who was the author of this _History of Stirlingshire_? It looks like a 19th-century imprint. Curiosity is aroused.

Σ


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## AndrasSkot

The History is by William Nimmo and Robert Gillespie. 
The history of Stirlingshire : Nimmo, William : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

I'm confused as to the identity of the people. A further layer of confusion might be that the phrase may date from hundreds of years after the possibly fictional events. My guesses are:

Anglos - not so much the English as we know them but Anglo-Saxons from the Kingdom of Northumbria. Kingdom of Northumbria - Wikipedia (Their princes in the story were Osbrecht and Ella).


Britonis - I think these are Cumbrian Brits. In the tale they formed an alliance with the Anglos and defeated the Scotis.
Cumbric - Wikipedia


Scotis - I think referring to the people subdued by the Anglos and the Brits. They're probably Picts. 
List of kings of the Picts - Wikipedia


In ancient Scotland but not mentioned in the tale was another people group who were Gaels.
Dál Riata - Wikipedia 

I'm trying to figure out what the latin is saying about the relation between the three groups. I'm also confused as to what the bridge and the cross have to do with the relationship.

Thanks for your quick reply. While I'm here some of the stamps had two letter ts (i.e. Brutti not Bruti). Is that likely to be just a variation in the old spelling?


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## AndrasSkot

As an afterthought I perhaps should have emphasised the seals pictures of which are here:
Stirling - Wikipedia

Also should I start a new thread about the "Castle seal" or is it more straightforward?


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## Scholiast

Oops—I had not looked at the wider context, and assumed (obviously wrongly) that this was all in reference to the battle of Bannockburn in 1314. So I plead, apart from (polite and gentle) nationalism, some indulgence for excessive haste in my first reply here. My remarks about the Latin, however, and the ostensible translation or, better, "rendering", remain valid.

There was an old tale, recorded I believe (but I have not checked) in Geoffrey of Monmouth's _Chronicle_, to the effect that "Britain" took its name from Brutus, the slayer of Caesar in 44 BC. This is obviously a complete fantasy, belonging in the same locker as the idea of St Andrew actually visiting Fife.



AndrasSkot said:


> I'm confused as to the identity of the people



Not surprising. I have a suspicion that William Nimmo was none too clear about them either. There would have been Gaels (or Gaelic-speaking Picts) in Stirlingshire at the time, and (sorry to complicate things) some Vikings too, though precious few Anglo-Saxons—yet.

Without further research I can offer no more. But as this is the Latin Forum, I stand by what in the purely linguistic matter I have said.

Σ


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## AndrasSkot

Thanks for your reply. I did a few searches and came up with this:

The Arms of the Royal and Parliamentary Burghs of Scotland

It seems to suggest two parties rather than three which makes more sense with picture on the seal. 

The reverse of the seal had the motto:

_*Continet Hoc in Se Nemus et Castrum Strivilinse*

which is I'm told easier to translate. _


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## AndrasSkot

I tried to get the poetic sense of what you said with this:

Angles and Scots here demarked

By this cross kept apart.

Brits and Scots armed and near

By this cross stand safe here.


It's a shame that demarcated, the more modern version of the word has four syllables. How would this fit with the Latin or is it taking liberties like Bellenden?
John Bellenden - Wikipedia

The cross in question was reportedly placed on top of Striling Bridge which would make for a very clear border. An amazing map is here:
Stirling Old Bridge | Scotland's Oldest Bridges


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