# Levantine Arabic:  عادت حليمة لعادتها القديمة



## WannaBFluent

السلام عليكم

Firstable, how would you write 3aadat 7aliime la3adeetha l-2adiime in arabic?
عادت حليمة لعادتها القديمه
is correct?

Secondable, I have read that this is an expression meaning :
"Here we go again!"

But Literally, it means "7aliime has gone back to her old (bad) habits".

Who is 7aliime? I don't get it... Can you explain please.

شكرا


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## Hemza

Salut cher ami,

عادت حليمة لعادتها القديمة

حليمة is a name. It may be linked to historical reasons or a person who became a representation of something or a figure. Or حليمة might be like 'فلان'.
حليمة might be anyone who acts as such. As in French, when you see about a fish seller (woman) you say "Hé, il y a Nadine Morano"


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## analeeh

I think it's just a set phrase, as Hemza suggests. عادت حليمة لعاداتها القديمة I would transcribe as _3aadet 7aliime la-3aadEEt-a il2adiime, _in Beiruti, although I'm not entirely sure of how the distribution of the different aa sounds works in dialects other than Damascene. Perhaps 7aliime is a character from a story or a reference to history - and even if she isn't originally and it was just a set phrase, then people will have come up with a story to go with the expression, I bet you anything - but regardless, it's convenient for the rhyme (_7alIIME _and _2adIIME_).


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## WannaBFluent

But it's like everyone will understand what I'm talking about when I say this expression with the name 7aliime in all the Levant?
And if I change the name with another one well known, will it still be the same meaning?

عادت بشار الاسد لعاديته القديم


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## analeeh

No - the entire point is that _3aadet 7aliime la-3aadaatha il2adiime_ rhymes. It's a set phrase, although there may be variants with other names that also rhyme. It will probably be understood, assuming you say it in an appropriate intonation, even if people haven't heard it before. If you say عاد الأسد لعاداته القديمة it will just mean 'Asad has gone back to his old habits', which has a meaning but is not the set phrase meaning 'here we go again'.


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## WannaBFluent

Ok thanks for the explanations, much appreciated


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## elroy

In Palestinian Arabic, the expression I know is *رجعت* حليمة *لعادتها* القديمة (_*rij3at* 7aliime *la-3aditha *'l-2adiime_), and it's always used with the name حليمة, which is just a fill-in name used to represent the person being referenced who has gone back to his/her old ways (i.e. negative, undesirable habits).  It's similar to "falling off the wagon" in English, with two primary differences: 1) "Falling off the wagon" is mostly associated with addictions (and, by extension, addiction-like behaviors) whereas the Arabic expression can be used to refer to any past negative habit or behavior that the person stopped for some time only to go back to again (such as gossiping or shoplifting); and 2) In English, "falling off the wagon" can be used without judgment, but rather simply as a description of what happened ("He was sober for five years, but unfortunately he fell off the wagon a couple months ago"), whereas in Arabic the phrase is always judgmental and derisive, as in "I thought you stopped that!  Now you're doing the same thing all over again."  "Here we go again" is a good equivalent in many cases, if delivered with the right tone of voice.

There are other expressions that use fill-in names similarly, such as وافق شنٌ طبقة or, in English, "peeping Tom" or "chatty Cathy."  It sounds like "Nadine Morano" is a French one (based on Hemza's post), and I'm sure there are others in French and probably most other languages as well.


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## WannaBFluent

So if I understand correctly, عادت حليمة لعادتها القديمة / رجعت حليمة لعادتها القديمة is always negative?

For example, if I go with some friends in an amusement park, then we leave it to get some food for the lunch, and then, finally, we go back again, in English I could say, entering the park "HERE WE GO AGAIIIN!" in a positive way.
But in Arabic, as it talks about old *(bad)* habits, it is only used in a negative way, like when a kid is doing some stupidities again and again.

Right?


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## elroy

Perfect, WannaBFluent. 

(But it seems that the version you came across used عاداتها [plural] rather than عادتها [singular]?)


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## WannaBFluent

There wasn't an alef when I wrote it


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## elroy

WannaBFluent said:


> There wasn't an alef when I wrote it


 I know, but you asked "how would you write 3aadat 7aliime la3ad*ee*tha l-2adiime in arabic?" and your Arabic version was just an attempt.  Notice that analeeh wrote لعاد*ا*تها in his first post, based on your English transliteration.  It sounded like you _heard_ this expression and were asking how to write it in Arabic.  Was this not the case?


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## WannaBFluent

Oh, yes, but I was more hesitating between عاديتها and عادتها

When I type "ee", in my mind it is not a long /i/ sound (I would have typed "ii"). But a long /e/ sound.
I'm native French, I'm not used to say /ii/ when I see "ee"


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## elroy

It could be the case that in some dialects it's plural.  In Palestinian Arabic, I've only ever heard the singular version.


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## WannaBFluent

Ok thanks, good to know


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## elroy

WannaBFluent said:


> When I type "ee", in my mind it is not a long /i/ sound (I would have typed "ii"). But a long /e/ sound.


 That's how I read it.  Many of us use "ee" this way in this forum, even though it's counter-intuitive for native speakers of English. 

Lebanese Arabic often uses _ee_ instead of _aa_:

Palestinian/Jordanian: _3ad*aa*t(h)a_
Syrian: _3*aa*d*aa*ta _(Syrian loves long vowels )
Lebanese: _3ad*ee*ta_

I'm assuming analeeh read it the way I did, which would explain his plural interpretation and his reference to Beiruti Arabic.


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## WannaBFluent

But, I don't get it because I actually failed it as the correct transliteration according to the correct Arabic script should be :

عادت حليمة لعادتها القديمة
3aadat 7aliime la3aad*e*t-ha l-2adiime
and not la3aad*ee*t-ha.

So I suppose :
Palestinian : 3aad*e*t-ha
Syrian : 3aad*e*t-ha (I feel like Syrians like the /e/ sound)
Lebanese : 3aad*i*t-ha (I feel like Lebanese people prefer the /i/ sound)

Like *shu esmak* in Syria becomes *ish ismak* in Lebanon.


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## elroy

The forms I shared are plural forms.  The singular is "3adit(ha)" in Palestinian/Jordanian, and I'm guessing "3aadəta" in Syrian and "3edita" or "3eedita" in Lebanese.

I was just trying to say that your "3adeetha" looked like a Lebanese plural form (despite the "h").  Do you see why?

(Come to think of it, the plural might actually be "3edeeta" or "3eedeeta" in Lebanese.  I'm not sure about all the rules for the a>e change and for vowel length in Lebanese Arabic.  Hopefully Barkoosh will see this and comment. )


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## analeeh

In Damascene at least it would be 3aadét-(h)a, where ét is stressed and pronounced as it. As far as I can tell this is the same in Lebanese.


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## PlanC

WannaBFluent said:


> Who is 7aliimA? I don't get it... Can you explain please.


*Gertrude est revenue à ses vieilles habitudes.*
Je ne sais pas s'il y a beaucoup de prenoms feminins qui se terminent par le son "ude" ,mais c'est le seule que j'ai trouvé sous la main )


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## elroy

> 7aliimA


 It's "7aliim*e*" in most Levantine dialects.


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## PlanC

elroy said:


> It's "7aliim*e*" in most Levantine dialects.


Oh Okay I see, even if the Levantine dialects are not strange to my ears, I guess it's like the french sound *é* with a slight refrained 'h' at the end.
However, the point is:
To preserve the rhyme and keeping it not altered, the spell of the '*mX*' silabus in 7ali*mX* , should be the same like the *mY* silabus in l-2adii*mY.*


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## apricots

If you're unsure about the rules for when ta marbuta is -e and -a it is -a only after guttural letters خ غ ع ق ص ض ظ ط ح and ر unless ر is preceded by ي.


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## WannaBFluent

apricots said:


> If you're unsure about the rules for when ta marbuta is -e and -a it is -a only after guttural letters خ غ ع ق ص ض ظ ط and ر unless ر is preceded by ي.


+ ء ، ح ، ه as far as I know.


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## emanko

Hello

In Egyptian Arabic we use the same idiom but with a different name: _*Rima*_
رجعت ريما لعادتها القديمة
And I don't think using 
عادت
is uncommon.


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## WannaBFluent

And do you know if Rima refers to a real celebrity?


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## emanko

No, probably very few people know the origin of the idiom. Names are generally used in Arabic idioms and people rarely ask about them.


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## elroy

PlanC said:


> To preserve the rhyme and keeping it not altered, the spell of the '*mX*' silabus in 7ali*mX* , should be the same like the *mY* silabus in l-2adii*mY.*


 Yes, of course.


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## analeeh

apricots said:


> If you're unsure about the rules for when ta marbuta is -e and -a it is -a only after guttural letters خ غ ع ق ص ض ظ ط ح and ر unless ر is preceded by ي.





WannaBFluent said:


> + ء ، ح ، ه as far as I know.



There are a few additional exceptions to this, like _ibre _and _3érwe, _as well as a couple of words like _dénye_ and _shéte_ which do not have taa marbuuTa (and in more northern dialects, you also get e.g. _soode _for 'black'). 



> No, probably very few people know the origin of the idiom. Names are generally used in Arabic idioms and people rarely ask about them.



Are you kidding? In Syria it is practically a national pastime to come up with dubious etymologies for every proverb!


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## emanko

I'm Egyptian and we rarely ask about the origins of the idioms or the names in them, but that doesn't mean they don't have a historic background. Maybe the case is different in Syria.


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