# Carpe diem



## talmid

G'Day!

Could some Member please help me ?

I'd like to know how to render "carpe diem",
in the literarily accepted form, please, in both

a. Ivrit

b. Russian

Thank you,спасибо & תודה


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## Saluton

Russian: *лови момент* or, in some contexts, *живи сегодняшним днём,* although the phrase is not always translated.


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## origumi

Reasonable rendering to Hebrew is in Isaiah 22:13 אָכוֹל וְשָׁתוֹ כִּי מָחָר נָמוּת = akhol veshato ki makhar namut = _Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we shall die_. It is echoed in 1 Corinthians 15:32 (Greek though).

The literal translation חיה את הרגע = khaye et harega` = _live the moment_ is not commonly used, http://www.babylon.com/definition/carpe_diem/Hebrew.


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## talmid

Sincere thanks to you both for this help


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## amikama

In modern Hebrew, also in imperative:
אֱכֹל וּשְׁתֵה כי מחר נמות


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## ThomasK

Why not in all languages? I thought of these: 

Dutch: *pluk de dag *(_plukken _refers to fruits, berries, like picking)
English: *seize the day *(which reminds me of grabbing and holding - or is this not the most common translation?)

These translations seem quite different as for the kind of message they convey...


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## rhitagawr

ThomasK said:


> English: *seize the day *(which reminds me of grabbing and holding - or is this not the most common translation?)


It's the most common translation.


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## ThomasK

But then would you agree that seizing and picking imply different meanings? And that in fact the meaning of _carpere _(pick, I believe) is strictly speaking better conveyed by 'pick' than 'seize'? How do you interpret the Latin saying/... ?


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*«άδραξε τη μέρα»* [ˈaðɾakse ti ˈmeɾa] --> _grasp the day_ (2nd p. sing. imperative).
The v. is *«αδράχνω»* [aˈðɾaxno] --> _to grasp_ < late Byz. v. *«ἀδράχνω adrákhnō*, a compound: copulative prefix *«ἀ-» a-* (PIE *sm-, cf Skt. सं- (sa-) => सनामन् (sánāman) --> _similar_ (adj.); Lat. sim- => simplex (adj.)) + Byz. v. *«δράχνω» drákhnō* < Classical fem. noun *«δραχμὴ» drākʰmḕ* --> lit. _grasp of the hand, handful_, later, _drachma_ (weight and coin), with obscure etymology.


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## rhitagawr

ThomasK said:


> But then would you agree that seizing and picking imply different meanings? And that in fact the meaning of _carpere _(pick, I believe) is strictly speaking better conveyed by 'pick' than 'seize'? How do you interpret the Latin saying/... ?


You translate the idea and not the word. _Carpere_ may well mean _pick_, but _seize_ has the idea of grasping something energetically before it's too late. _Pick_ can mean something like _choose/take_. _We need to meet. You can pick the day_. Or it can mean something like _pluck_ off a tree. _We picked some apples from the orchard_.


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## ThomasK

Thanks for the hint regarding seizing: before it is too late... I had not thought of that as I had thought of picking. 

But I am not sure whether we need to translate (or render ?) the idea when we translate . I'd say that one has to interpret and understand the words before being able to render the idea, I think. And that is what I had been wondering about here: what is this _carpere_, and how can one 'render' it best?


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## rhitagawr

I agree you can't translate a word you don't understand. _Seize_ is as good as anything in English. You can seize an opportunity. _He made me a generous offer and I seized it with both hands_.


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## Encolpius

Hungarian: Ragadd meg a napot! [megragad aangrijpen + nap dag]
megragad [Eng.: seize] -- you can use use it in the collocation ragadd meg az alkalmat [Dutch: Grijp de gelegenhdeid aan]


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## ThomasK

I thought I might just as well look at the original version (hope it is not too long) in Horatius' O_des,_ 1:11: 


> Whether Jupiter has allotted you many more winters or this one,
> which even now wears out the Tyrrhenian sea on the opposing rocks, is the final one
> be wise, be truthful, strain the wine, and scale back your long hopes
> to a short period. While we speak, envious time will have {already} fled:
> *seize the day*, trusting as little as possible in the next day.[2]


I noticed that _carpere _is often translated as picking (plucking), but seizing is also considered an alternative here... I think I better understand now, thanks to the context...


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## Zsanna

I think _Élj a mának!_ (literally: Live for the (to)day) is a better way of saying it in Hungarian because it expresses more faithfully what Horace meant...


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## ThomasK

Can anyone comment on the original form (in Latin)? Does _carpere_ not refer to picking fruit mainly, which implies dependence, I'd say, whereas seizing seems to focus on taking everything one can...


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## M Mira

^You reach your hand out for the fruit, then you grab it and pull it off the tree, and take it with you, how is there any dependence?


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## ThomasK

Well, the dependence is in the fact that I first need to bump into (ripe) fruit - or just find it!

I think that is also the difference between hunting and agriculture... Seizing is like a different reflex: it is taking what you can get hold of.

But maybe some people consider grabbing, seizing and picking as fairly related, just troponyms. I am inclined to see a different way of taking in picking (vs. the others) and to think it implies a different background not implied at all in the other two. Am I going too far as for this distinction?


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## Messquito

Chinese translations for "Carpe Diem/Seize the day":
1. Enjoy the moment:
活在當下 Live in the moment
及時行樂 Enjoy with time
人生得意須盡歡，莫使金樽空對月 Enjoy yourself to the full when life goes your way and never let the bottom or your wineglass up to the (beautiful) moon.
今朝有酒今朝醉，明日愁來明日愁 If I've got wine this morning, I'm drunk this morning; if worries come tomorrow, I'm worrying about it tomorrow.
人生有九須當醉，一滴何曾到黃泉 If you got wine in life, drink it right away, (because) not a drop of it comes (with you) to the nether world.
對酒當歌，人生幾何 With wine thy should sing, (because) how many moments like this do one have in life?
2. Capture the opportunity
把握當下 Seize the present
今日事，今日畢 Today's affairs, finish them today!
明日復明日，明日何其多 Tomorrow and tomorrow again; how many of tomorrow's there are?


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## Armas

Finnish

Tartu hetkeen = Grab the moment


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## ThomasK

To what extent can we say that the Chinese version (2.) and the Finnish version refer to Latin, do you think? I am just wondering because the whole point is that in the Epicurean Original 'carpe diem' one uses one particular verb and that is the one I am interested in. Not that I mind other variations, but I'd like to know if these are linked with the original...


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## Messquito

I don't think so, 把握 actually means to grasp and hold and it is often collocated with 機會(opportunity), 時間(time), etc, or in 有把握 it means confidence. I believe it is an original Chinese expression.


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## 810senior

I have seen the Japanese translation about this: その日を摘め_sono hi wo tsukame_, *grab that day*.


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## ger4

German dictionaries translate it as _Nutze denTag - _lit. make (full) use of the day.


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## ThomasK

_Nutzen_... It sounds different again!

Chinese/ Japanese: interesting to hear that it is not based on Epicurus, and that it really means 'grasp and hold', or 'grab' respectively. And of course that meaning is quite common: grabbing, seizing, in order not to miss... _(It reminds me of the modern FOMO complex: the Fear Of Missing Out [on something], whereas the picking reminds me of the wealth offered by an orchard for free, and it is up to us to fully enjoy it, almost gratefully...)_


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