# amor animi arbitrio sumitur non ponitur



## cloudsbegone

I would like help understanding this phrase please,
thank you very much
cloudsbegone


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## perfavore

Hi, 

Welcome to the forum. What you need help for sounds something like Latin. Is that phrase from Harry Potter?


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## Necsus

It's Latin, the translation into Italian is 
"L'amore può essere accettato secondo il proprio volere, ma non ce se ne può disfare!", 
while in English it could be something like
"We choose to love, we do not choose to cease loving".


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## perfavore

Grazie Necsus. Una bella frase.


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## Necsus

Prego, è sempre un piacere.


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## Anne345

perfavore said:


> Hi,
> Is that phrase from Harry Potter?


 
No, from Publilius Syrus, a Latin writer of maxims.


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## judkinsc

Literally, "love is chosen, it is not placed, in judgment of the spirit."

It means, I would think, that love is a choice, not a necessity.


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## perfavore

Hi, 

That's a different meaning than what Necsus has previously stated. I wonder which is which...


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## Mezzofanti

There is no doubt in my mind that Necsus has correctly understood this proverb.  The verbs _sumere_ and _ponere_ are in contrast and as such must mean _to take up_ and _to put aside_ respectively. The ablative _arbitrio_ without a preposition cannot, except in tortured poetry, mean _in,_ and must mean _by_.  _Arbitrium animi_ is standard for free will. We choose to start loving but not to stop. No one will dispute the second half of this proverb; the first half might raise some eyebrows.


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## judkinsc

Mezzofanti said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that Necsus has correctly understood this proverb.  The verbs _sumere_ and _ponere_ are in contrast and as such must mean _to take up_ and _to put aside_ respectively. The ablative _arbitrio_ without a preposition cannot, except in tortured poetry, mean _in,_ and must mean _by_.  _Arbitrium animi_ is standard for free will. We choose to start loving but not to stop. No one will dispute the second half of this proverb; the first half might raise some eyebrows.



The phrase would work like this then:
"Love is chosen by the judgment of the spirit [free will]; it is not set aside by free will."

That is not the most common usage of ponere, however. It is closer to the meaning of deponere.


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## clara mente

I tend to agree with Judkinsc, with the exception of the of the subtlety of the verb "ponitur".I would translate this sentence thusly:"Love is freely assumed (i.e. taken up), not imposed".


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## perfavore

That is a lovely interpretation but again different from the one by Necsus. Are they both acceptable?


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## Mezzofanti

No.  There is a clear, outright disagreement here about what this sentence means and it can't really mean both.  I am still standing shoulder-to-shoulder with Necsus, but if there are any other competent Latinists out there it would be nice to have a few more opinions expressed.


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## Flaminius

I have found the verse continues thus;


> Aut amat aut odit mulier, nil est tertium.
> Ad tristem partem strenua est suspicio.
> Ames parentem, si aequus est; si aliter, feras.



Does this cast some light to determine which interpretation is more cogent?


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## Mezzofanti

I"m afraid it doesn't help as Publilius Syrus wrote a series of proverbs each of which is quite unrelated to its neighbours. However if you care to follow this link you will see that the site in question offers the following translation: 



> *Amor animi arbitrio sumitur, non ponitur - We choose to love, we do not choose to cease loving. (Publilius Syrus)*


 
This is identical to what Necsus said and very close to my suggestion:



> *We choose to start loving but not to stop.*


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## virgilio

Mezzofanti,
               You wrote:"We choose to start loving but not to stop. No one will dispute the second half of this proverb; the first half might raise some eyebrows."
Yes, indeed it might; mine for instance.
Not much of a proverb, I'd say. The author plainly had only a limited experience of his subject-matter. 

Best wishes
Virgilio


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## Cagey

Mezzofanti said:


> There is no doubt in my mind that Necsus has correctly understood this proverb.  The verbs _sumere_ and _ponere_ are in contrast and as such must mean _to take up_ and _to put aside_ respectively. The ablative _arbitrio_ without a preposition cannot, except in tortured poetry, mean _in,_ and must mean _by_.  _Arbitrium animi_ is standard for free will. We choose to start loving but not to stop. No one will dispute the second half of this proverb; the first half might raise some eyebrows.



Yes, I agree, with both the translation and the thought. 

Although _*de*ponere_ is often used, _ponere,_ too, can mean "to lay aside, take off," arms, clothing, etc. _*  E.g*_. _veste ponita_ = "with clothing taken off"  in Cicero (Tusc. 47.113).  Context: The young men took off their clothes and then oiled their bodies. 

_Ponitur_'s pairing with _sumitur_ supports this reading, as Mezzofanti points out.


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## Necsus

One can obviously choose a different meaning for the verb 'ponere', but it definitely means (also figuratively) 'to stop; to cease' as well.
Here are some examples I've found:
_sumere aut ponere secures_ (Horace), take the power or leave it;
_pone, meum est_ (Horace), put it down, it is mine;
_ponere dolorem_ (Cicerone), to cease grieving.


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## virgilio

Cagey.
          You wrote: "_veste ponita_ = "with clothing taken off"  in Cicero (Tusc. 47.113)."
Surely your text has a typographical error? I suggest the emendation "veste posita" - probably already suggested somewhere in the 'apparatus criticus' at the bottom of the page of text.

Best wishes
Virgilio


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## Cagey

virgilio said:


> Cagey.
> You wrote: "_veste ponita_ = "with clothing taken off"  in Cicero (Tusc. 47.113)."
> Surely your text has a typographical error? I suggest the emendation "veste posita" - probably already suggested somewhere in the 'apparatus criticus' at the bottom of the page of text.
> 
> Best wishes
> Virgilio



Virgilio,
You are correct.  _Ponita_ was a scribal error, the scribe being me.  Post #17 should read _veste *posita*_. Thanks.
Cagey


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