# Verb roots ending in -m



## CapnPrep

I was worrying about how Turkish speakers manage to keep track of all the verbal suffixes in _-m_ in a form like _yap-a-ma-ma-mız_ "our being unable to do" and wondering if there were many verbs whose root already ends in an _-m_. For example, _ummak_ "expect" would have 4 _m_'s in _umamamamız_. 

So I took a simple Turkish wordlist (the kind used for password hacking ) and made a list of the consonants that appear before the infinitive ending _-mAk_, with a possible intervening vowel:
*C* - (*V*) - _mak_/_mek_​
Here are the results, slightly cleaned up (note that this wordlist unfortunately disregards diacritics):


> 0 j, 1 h (ahmak, hamak, ıhmak)
> 
> 0 f
> 1 b (yalabımak)
> *  5? m (gömmek, iplememek, mamak?, ummak, yamamak, yummak)*
> 11 v (dövmek, gevmek, ivmek, kovmak, ovmak, övmek, cıvımak, salivemek?, savmak, sevmek, sıvamak, sövmek)
> 14 p (kapamak, kapmak, kaypamak, kepmek, kıpmak, kırpmak, kopmak, öpmek, pomak, sapmak, serpmek, sölpümek, tapmak, tepmek, yapmak)
> 
> 18 g/ğ, 20 c/ç, 27 z, 28 y, 43 k, 71 d
> 
> 348 t, 587 r, 632 s/ş, 667 n, 1066 l (these are obviously mostly derived verbs)



So it seems to be the case that ‹m›, and more generally the labial consonants (in blue), occur relatively infrequently at the end of Turkish verb roots (although some of these verbs, like _kapamak_, _yapmak_, are of course very common). Is this also true for nouns and adjectives, or is the effect (if any) found only with verbs?


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## Eline0909

I have never heard that there is a special rule or counting about this in Turkish but it is very interesting anyway, if there are some people who count how many of each letter there is at the end of each verb or adjective.


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## ancalimon

Not totally related but;

MUŞ: a city in Turkey

Muş muymuş? 

Muşmuş: I heard it was Muş

Muşmuşmuş: I heard from a friend who was told that it was Muş.


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## Rallino

ancalimon said:


> Not totally related but;
> 
> MUŞ: a city in Turkey
> 
> Muş muymuş?
> 
> Muşmuş: I heard it was Muş
> 
> Muşmuşmuş: I heard from a friend who was told that it was Muş.



There is something similar:

*Şu müdür, müdür müdür ? *Is that director, a director?


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## macrotis

I have a database of 8096 verbs (1887 of which are compound verbs like _yardım etmek_) but not of nouns or adjectives, so I can't calculate the answer to your question. For the verbs I have (only single word verbs):
h: 1 
d: 2 
m: 7 
ü: 12 
v: 12 
ğ: 12 
i: 14 
p: 14 
u: 15 
ç: 15 
s: 16 
y: 20 
z: 22 
ı: 32 
k: 40 
e: 569 
l: 620 
t: 655 
a: 870 
r: 1041 
ş: 1051 
n: 1169


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## CapnPrep

Thanks, macrotis! I disregarded the vowels and looked at the preceding consonant, so our results are quite different. Also, your list is much larger (mine only contains 3546 words ending in _-mAk_, and some are not actually verbs), but I would guess that most of the extra verbs in your list are derived forms (causatives, passives, reflexives, etc.).

Could you tell me which 7 verbs you found for _-m_?


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## macrotis

Well, one word (_çürütülmek_) was inserted without trimming (with a space at the end) and this caused an error in counting m's (WHERE SUBSTRING(fiil, -4, 1)='m'). Now the count is 6:

çimmek 
çömmek 
emmek 
gömmek 
ummak 
yummak


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## CapnPrep

If you have a moment, would you mind also listing the results for SUBSTRING(fiil, *-5*, 1)='m'? Thank you very much!


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## macrotis

beğenmemek 
çekememek 
yamamak 

I've deleted _beğenmemek _from the db, but since _çekememek _has a distinct meaning that _çekmek_ doesn't have, it stays.


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## maviliazman

macrotis said:


> beğenmemek
> çekememek
> yamamak
> 
> I've deleted _beğenmemek _from the db, but since _çekememek _has a distinct meaning that _çekmek_ doesn't have, it stays.


There is a "beğenmemek" entry in the dictionary.
 And there is a fourth one, which is a must  verb.


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## macrotis

This must be why I had it in my db in the first place (I just inserted the list I found on the web, didn't check individual words). I deleted it because I think it's just the negative of _beğenmek_. Any verb could be negated by adding -me/ma- and they deserve to have their own entry no less than_ beğenmemek_. If _beğenmemek _has a distinct meaning I don't know that _beğenmek _doesn't, I reinsert it into the db.

_Çekememek _has the meaning "to be jealous of, to envy" that _çekmek _doesn't.

Thank you for the other verb. I added it.


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## CapnPrep

And how would one form the negative of _çekememek_ and _siklememek_?


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## Rallino

Those are already in negative.

Bu adamı çekemiyorum = I can't put up with this guy.

Bugün beni hiç siklemiyorsun = You don't give a shit to anything I say today.


In the course of a dialogue, just to make it funny, people can answer in positive construction:

-Bugün beni hiç siklemiyorsun!
-Yoo sikliyorum!

-Sanırım o adamı çekemiyorsun.
-Aslında, çekiyorum; ama bazen...

But those positive constructions have a meaning only in this type of dialogues, other than that they don't exist. Much like the English: "Yes way!". It doesn't exist solely. But in the dialogue:

A: I'm gonna ask her out.
B: No way!
A: Yes way!


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## CapnPrep

Rallino said:


> Bu adamı çekemiyorum = I can't put up with this guy.


In this case I guess it is the negative potential of _çekmek_. But when it means "to be jealous of", it could be considered to be a separate verb. Is there a way to say "not to be jealous of" using this verb?


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## Rallino

CapnPrep said:


> In this case I guess it is the negative potential of _çekmek_. But when it means "to be jealous of", it could be considered to be a separate verb. Is there a way to say "not to be jealous of" using this verb?



I guess you can use the construction that I call "fake-negative": Çekemiyor değil.

-Sanırım bu adamı çekemiyorsun. (I guess you're jealous of him)
-Hayır, çekemiyor değilim; ama problem yarattığı bir gerçek. (No, it's not me being jealous, but it's a fact that he's causing problems.)


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