# Мне нужно просо/проса



## Particle

Мне нужно просо. Мне нужно проса. 
What's the difference? These sentences are impersonal?


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## Q-cumber

First variant simply means " I need millet."  The second one suggests some measure (quantity) - мне нужно (немного) проса (I need some / a bit of millet).  That's why the attribute noun in genitive case (родительный падеж) is used. Немного/ горсть/ чашка/ килограмм  (кого? Чего?) проса.

In Russian language we use genitive in sentences about possession and in sentences with negation. T_he genitive attribute always stands after the noun:

Килограмм проса (possession)
У меня *нет проса. *(Negation)_


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## Maroseika

Particle said:


> These sentences are impersonal?


Yes, both are impersonal. To make sure, just change the noun to another one, so that grammatical case would be evident: Мне нужно хлеба. Since the noun is definetely not in Nominative, it cannot be the subject.

Мне нужно + noun in Acc. = I need something in general or as a whole.
Мне нужно + noun in Gen. = I need a bit or some part of something. This Genitive is sometimes called Partitive.

Дай мне хлеб (that piece or that loaf).
Дай мне хлеба (some bread).

Previous discussions of the partitive:
*Accusative vs genitive*
*Налить чаю*
*Хочу зимы или хочу зиму?*
*просить*


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## Particle

Thanks. I see, ‘мне нужно проса’ is impersonal.

But I wonder, why ‘мне нужно просо’ is ‘мне нужно + noun in Acc’. It may be ‘мне нужно + noun in Nom’ like:
мне нужен хлеб;
мне нужна верёвка;
мне нужно просо.
These sentences are impersonal?


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## Maroseika

[QUOTE="Particle, post: 15949934, member: 750952"
I wonder, why ‘мне нужно просо’ is ‘мне нужно + noun in Acc’. It may be ‘мне нужно + noun in Nom’ [/QUOTE]

I think there are two different constructions:

1. *Мне нужно + noun in Acc*., where нужно is impersonal and is always Neutral:
Мне нужно машину, зеркало, пять рублей, кусок хлеба.

2. *Мне + Personal form of нужно + noun in Nom*., and this is personal sentence:
Мне нужна машина, нужен опыт, нужны деньги.
In case of Neutral noun this construction is indistinguishable of # 1.


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## Drink

Maroseika said:


> I think there are two different constructions:
> 
> 1. *Мне нужно + noun in Acc*., where нужно is impersonal and is always Neutral:
> Мне нужно машину, зеркало, денег, пять рублей, кусок хлеба.
> 
> 2. *Мне + Personal form of нужно + noun in Nom*., and this is personal sentence:
> Мне нужна машина, нужен опыт, нужны деньги.
> In case of Neutral noun this construction is indistinguishable of # 1.



Would you maybe say that when the accusative case is used, there is an implied verb (купить, съесть, etc.), while when the nominative case is used, there is no implied verb? (And that when the partitive/genitive is used, there may or may not be an implied verb.)


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## Q-cumber

Particle said:


> Thanks. I see, ‘мне нужно проса’ is impersonal.
> 
> But I wonder, why ‘мне нужно просо’ is ‘мне нужно + noun in Acc’. It may be ‘мне нужно + noun in Nom’ like:
> мне нужен хлеб;
> мне нужна верёвка;
> мне нужно просо.
> These sentences are impersonal?


Yes, it should be nominative case.


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> 1. *Мне нужно + noun in Acc*., where нужно is impersonal and is always Neutral:
> Мне нужно машину, зеркало, денег, пять рублей, кусок хлеба.
> 
> .


I doubt this would be the correct construction. Such a sentence looks incomplete.
Мне нужно машину!?   Купить? Покрасить? Завести?


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## Maroseika

Q-cumber said:


> I doubt this would be the correct construction. Such a sentence looks incomplete.
> Мне нужно машину!?   Купить? Покрасить? Завести?


Maybe машина is not a good example. More natural phrases:
Мужика (ребенка, дочку) тебе нужно, Зинка.


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## Particle

Thanks again! I see, the construction Мне нужно просо is indistinguishable.
What about this: мне нужно пальто. Is this sentence indistinguishable, impersonal or incomplete?


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> Maybe машина is not a good example. More natural phrases:
> Мужика (ребенка, дочку) тебе нужно, Зинка.


Sounds much better, but only because  our brain clearly knows that the omitted verb is "завести". 


I afraid you mislead yourself by using improper sample phrases in the very beginning.

Дай мне... instead of мне нужно / нужен...


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## Q-cumber

Particle said:


> Thanks again! I see, the construction Мне нужно просо is indistinguishable.
> What about this: мне нужно пальто. Is this sentence indistinguishable, impersonal or incomplete?


Пальто is an indeclinable noun. Countable item. So you just need a coat.


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## Particle

Excuse me, one last question.  Would  it be more correctly translated these phrases as: a coat is needed to me; millet is needed to me. (using passive voice).


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## Maroseika

Q-cumber said:


> Sounds much better, but only because  our brain clearly knows that the omitted verb is "завести".
> 
> 
> I afraid you mislead yourself by using improper sample phrases in the very beginning.
> 
> Дай мне... instead of мне нужно / нужен...


Examples with "дай мне" referred to Gen. (partitive) vs Acc.
As for omitting/presuming verbs, I agree, but I don't think there is only one possible verb. It is rather some general notion of possession: Дочку тебе надо (or even: Дочку бы тебе) - родить, завести, иметь, заиметь, заполучить and so on. And as such, this collocation evidently differes from Тебе нужна дочка.


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## Q-cumber

Particle said:


> Excuse me, one last question.  Would  it be more correctly translated these phrases as: a coat is needed to me; millet is needed to me. (using passive voice).


It's quite difficult to decide which translation would be better. Technically "мне нужно" seems to be rather equal to 'is needed to me' indeed. But when I say "мне нужно просо", I mean that I'm out of millet, I need it (for cooking) and I intend to buy it. So it isn't  some abstract necessity. It is me who feels the need and who decides whether I need something or not.
   A wife can say to her husband "мне нужно просо! Заскочи в магазин (stop by a store) и купи проса!
Then in a store the husband would say to a seller: Чуть не забыл: ещё мне нужно просо! / Мне нужен килограмм проса! / дайте мне пачку проса, пожалуйста!


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## Q-cumber

Maroseika said:


> Examples with "дай мне" referred to Gen. (partitive) vs Acc.
> As for omitting/presuming verbs, I agree, but I don't think there is only one possible verb. It is rather some general notion of possession: Дочку тебе надо (or even: Дочку бы тебе) - родить, завести, иметь, заиметь, заполучить and so on. And as such, this collocation evidently differes from Тебе нужна дочка.


No objections.


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## Sobakus

Particle said:


> Excuse me, one last question.  Would  it be more correctly translated these phrases as: a coat is needed to me; millet is needed to me. (using passive voice).


В английском потребность кого-то в чём-то никогда не выражается безлично; таким образом, ваши предложения невозможны. Эта конструкция возможна лишь тогда, когда конкретного потребителя нет: «глаза нужны, чтобы видеть» – "eyes are needed (in order) to see", но даже в этом случае предпочтительнее неопределённо-личная конструкция "one needs/you need eyes in order to see".


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## Particle

Thanks


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