# Hindi, Urdu, Persian: Heather



## Rainbowlight

Hello everyone,

I would like to know which is the translation of the English word _*heather*_ in Urdu, Hindi and Persian. I've listened to the pronunciation of the term in English and I have noticed that the Hindi word is very similar to the English one, which makes me wonder if the plant was already known in India and Persia or was brought to those lands by travelers or merchants. 

Does the plant have an ancient, non English-derived name or is known by any other names?

And last but not least, I would like to if the word _*heather*_ also means _*pagan*_, as those terms are related in the English language?

Thank you very much!


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## Alfaaz

It seems that the word listed in Urdu, Persian, and Arabic dictionaries is خلنج - _xalanj_, which might be a معّرب - _mu3arrab _(Arabicized form) of Persian خلنگ or even خدنگ...!? The etymology experts could hopefully shed more light on this. 

Relevant entries from Steingass and Urdu Lughat:


> A خلنج ḵẖalanj*,* A tree from which they make beams or wooden bowls.





> خدنگ ḵẖadang*,* The white poplar, a tree from which they make arrows and saddle-trees; a bow or arrow made of it; a hedgehog; a crab.





> خلنج
> 
> ایک پہاڑٰ درخت ہے بہت بڑا ہوتا ہے پتوں کی وضع فراش کے پتوں کی سمی ہوتی ہے پھول چھوٹا اور سرخ و زرد ہوتا ہے اور ایک قسم کے پھول سفید بھی ہوتے ہیں ، دانہ اس کا رائی کے دانہ کی طرح ہوتا ہے ، رنگ نیلا ہوتا ہے ( لاط : Ericarrborea )
> ( ماخوذ : خزائن الادویہ ، ۴ : ۸۳ )
> 
> اشتقاق: [ ف : خَدَنْگ (رک) کا معرب ]​


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## Alfaaz

Rainbowlight said:
			
		

> ...I have noticed that the Hindi word is very similar to the English one, which makes me wonder if the plant was already known in India and Persia or was brought to those lands by travelers or merchants.
> 
> ... I would like to if the word _*heather*_ also means _*pagan*_, as those terms are related in the English language?


Could you please indicate the word you come across in Hindi?

Could you please elaborate on the etymological relation between _heather _and _pagan_?


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## MonsieurGonzalito

"pagan" is "heathen", but its pronunciation is very different. 

heather = /ˈhɛðər/  
heathen = /ˈhɪːðən/


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## Happu

Alfaaz said:


> Could you please elaborate on the etymological relation between _heather _and _pagan_?



I can try to do that via German, at least if you mean 'heathen', not in particular the word 'pagan':

In German, the word _Heide_ can mean both pagan/heathen as well as heather/heath. In the meaning of 'heathen', the word is masculine (unless a female heathen is specified: _Heidin_); in the meaning of 'heath', it's feminine. So we can tell them apart by the gender used.

Consulting German etymology, I find the overlapping (potential) source word, Proto-Germanic _haiþi _or_ haiþinaz = _field; Old Saxon _hetha/hethan._

This is supposed to have developed into 'heath', in the sense of 'an area of uncultivated land', and also to 'heathen', in the sense of people who 'live out in the fields in non-Christian lands'.

So there the connection may lie.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Happu said:


> Proto-Germanic _haiþi _or_ haiþinaz = _field;


Come to think of it, I believe "pagan" comes from late Latin _pagi_, _pagani _rural people (where worship of the old gods survived the most).


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## Jashn

I think it would be wrong to imply that heathen and heather are synonymous, though, even if there is some link one could draw between them. The word 'heather' does not automatically evoke any religious meaning at all for me, and it's only in a conversation specifically discussing heathens/pagans, that living in undeveloped rural areas becomes pertinent. The OED does not mention religion or heathens/pagans in its definition of heather at all, for example.

It does mention the expression, 'took to the heather', to refer to when people become outlaws, and gives the example, "A woman..informed against the murderer, who at once ‘took to the heather’". So it seems heather has historically a significant enough relation to lawlessness that it warranted a specific expression, whereas there is no expression listed about heather that describes religious heterodoxy.


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## Rainbowlight

Alfaaz said:


> Could you please indicate the word you come across in Hindi?
> 
> Could you please elaborate on the etymological relation between _heather _and _pagan_?


I used Google Translate and Bing Microsoft Translator, which might no be fully reliable. It is the reason I am using this forum to know if the plant is actually known in India and is perceived as a native or foreign species. The words I came across are हीदर and हीथ. 

The relationship - in case there's any- between heather and heathen is hotly contested. I just observe what I see and let it inform my thought. It is true that even though the two words are similar that does not imply the existence of a link between them. I am of Spanish descent and cannot help but noticing that the English word "moor" is yet another synonym for "heath" and "heather". There are several places near the place where I was born that are named after the Galician word "mouro".  

I want to make very clear that this is just conjecture and speculation and definitely not an academic analysis of two words. I'm just observing some similitudes between two terms in several languages.


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> that the English word "moor" is yet another synonym for "heath" and "heather".



A moor is a type of ground, landscape; it is not a plant and not a synonym of heath or heather! A moor may have some heath in some of the patches. In addition, heath and heather are different plants.


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> I am using this forum to know if the plant is actually known in India and is perceived as a native or foreign species.



Heather does grow in the Himalayan region at least, and there must be local words for those species.


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## Qureshpor

Rainbowlight said:


> I used Google Translate and Bing Microsoft Translator, which might no be fully reliable. It is the reason I am using this forum to know if the plant is actually known in India and is perceived as a native or foreign species. The words I came across are हीदर and हीथ.
> 
> The relationship - in case there's any- between heather and heathen is hotly contested. I just observe what I see and let it inform my thought. It is true that even though the two words are similar that does not imply the existence of a link between them. I am of Spanish descent and cannot help but noticing that the English word "moor" is yet another synonym for "heath" and "heather". There are several places near the place where I was born that are named after the Galician word "mouro".
> 
> I want to make very clear that this is just conjecture and speculation and definitely not an academic analysis of two words. I'm just observing some similitudes between two terms in several languages.


These words हीदर and हीथ are merely transcriptions of the English words "heather" and "heath" in Hindi script (Devanagri).

"Old English _hadre_, _hedre_ (recorded in place names), of unknown origin. The word was chiefly Scots until the 16th century; the change in the first syllable in the 18th century was due to association with heath."

So, the old English word for "heather" is "hadre/hedre" and it changed to "heather" because it grew on "heath" land, which is defined as "an area of open uncultivated land, typically on acid sandy soil, with characteristic vegetation of heather, gorse, and coarse grasses".

"heathen" has the following etymology.

"The definition and etymology of heathen overlap with those of pagan: both words denote “an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible,” and heathen, like pagan, is believed to have come from *the term for a country inhabitant*, or in this case, a "heath dweller."


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## Rainbowlight

littlepond said:


> A moor is a type of ground, landscape; it is not a plant and not a synonym of heath or heather! A moor may have some heath in some of the patches. In addition, heath and heather are different plants.


Thanks for the clarification. : )

Would you be so kind as to tell me which are the Hindi words for heath and heather?

Thank you so much for your help.


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## Rainbowlight

littlepond said:


> Heather does grow in the Himalayan region at least, and there must be local words for those species.


Thanks for the information. 

Would you happen to know of an online resource so I can learn the Himalayan names of both plants?

Thanks again for your help.


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## Rainbowlight

Qureshpor said:


> These words हीदर and हीथ are merely transcriptions of the English words "heather" and "heath" in Hindi script (Devanagri).
> 
> "Old English _hadre_, _hedre_ (recorded in place names), of unknown origin. The word was chiefly Scots until the 16th century; the change in the first syllable in the 18th century was due to association with heath."
> 
> So, the old English word for "heather" is "hadre/hedre" and it changed to "heather" because it grew on "heath" land, which is defined as "an area of open uncultivated land, typically on acid sandy soil, with characteristic vegetation of heather, gorse, and coarse grasses".
> 
> "heathen" has the following etymology.
> 
> "The definition and etymology of heathen overlap with those of pagan: both words denote “an unconverted member of a people or nation that does not acknowledge the God of the Bible,” and heathen, like pagan, is believed to have come from *the term for a country inhabitant*, or in this case, a "heath dweller."


Thanks for all your thoughts and clarifications.

This is what I wrote to the Arabic Forum user Wadi Hanifa some days ago regarding the possibility of two terms having an overlapping meaning. I hope you find it interesting.

*«*This only conjecture, but I think it might be of interest to you. I have always found striking that there is not only an obvious similarity between "heath" and "heathen", but also between "heathen" and "hidden". Maybe veils and similar garments were not only used exclusively in Arab culture, but were indeed used in Europe long before the existence of Islam.

Another word for "heath" is "moor", which is a mostly archaic term to define (at least in Spanish and English) some Muslims and especially people from North Africa. Moor and Christians were antonyms in Spanish until recent times, when the term "moor" was replaced by other non-pejorative terms. But maybe the words did not have an inherently pejorative connotation and simply reflected a simple reality instead: that a portion of the population actually dwelled in heaths and moors, outside the walls of the city. Thus, pagans came to mean those who inhabited rural areas and were considered rustics or non-urbanites.

I find yet another remarkable connection between the word _Muslim_ and the English word "muslin" or Spanish "muselina" or French "mousseline": they all refer to a gauzy fabric that is not far from the lightweight fabrics some hijabs are made of.* »*

Thanks again for your comments and help. : )


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> This is what I wrote to Arab forum user Wadi Hanifa some days ago regarding the possibility of two terms with an overlapping meaning. I hope you find it interesting.
> 
> *«*This only conjecture, but I think it might be of interest to you. I have always found striking that there is not only an obvious similarity between "heath" and "heathen", but also between "heathen" and "hidden". Maybe veils and similar garments were not only used exclusively in Arab culture, but were indeed used in Europe long before the existence of Islam.
> 
> Another word for "heath" is "moor", which is a mostly archaic term to define (at least in Spanish and English) some Muslims and especially people from North Africa. Moor and Christians were antonyms in Spanish until recent times, when the term "moor" was replaced by other non-pejorative terms. But maybe the words did not have an inherently pejorative connotation and simply reflected a simple reality instead: that a portion of the population actually dwelled in heaths and moors, outside the walls of the city. Thus, pagans came to mean those who inhabited rural areas and were considered rustics or non-urbanites.
> 
> I find yet another remarkable connection between the word _Muslim_ and the English word "muslin" or Spanish "muselina" or French "mousseline": they all refer to a gauzy fabric that is not far from the lightweight fabrics some hijabs are made of.* »*
> 
> Thanks again for your comments and help. : )



Instead of it being interesting, I find it funny, as much, or all, of it looks to me pseudo-science. All men (and women) must have come from some initial couple or couples, so all of us are a family, but based on that to suggest that Napoleon Bonaparte was my ancestor and Barack Obama is my cousin is stretching a point a bit too much!


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> Would you be so kind as to tell me which are the Hindi words for heath and heather?


Heather does not grow in the Hindi heartland (the Gangetic plains and central India), so I doubt if any word exists for it. It may exist in Sanskrit. Even if it does in Hindi, I or most Hindi speakers wouldn't be aware of it.


Rainbowlight said:


> Would you happen to know of an online resource so I can learn the Himalayan names of both plants?



I doubt if any online, or even any good offline, resources exist for the local dialects/languages of the Himalayan regions. You should consult the Sinic languages forum: one of the Himalayan languages, Tibetan, may have a word (and Tibetan is spoken in parts of India, too).


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## Rainbowlight

littlepond said:


> Instead of it being interesting, I find it funny, as much, or all, of it looks to me pseudo-science. All men (and women) must have come from some initial couple or couples, so all of us are a family, but based on that to suggest that Napoleon Bonaparte was my ancestor and Barack Obama is my cousin is stretching a point a bit too much!


Well, my intention was not to make a grand statement but just humbly joining some lexical dots. As I have already said, this does not pretend to be a transhistorical and transgeographical study. It is just born out of curiosity about languages, words and its meanings in several languages. 

Having said that, I must say that studying the connection between very similar terms seems like a perfectly respectable field of study to me. Case in point: Latin _equus_ became over time Spanish _yegua_. They are clearly different words yet they both refer to the same animal. 

Thank you very much for your comments and insights.


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## Rainbowlight

littlepond said:


> Heather does not grow in the Hindi heartland (the Gangetic plains and central India), so I doubt if any word exists for it. It may exist in Sanskrit. Even if it does in Hindi, I or most Hindi speakers wouldn't be aware of it.
> 
> 
> I doubt if any online, or even any good offline, resources exist for the local dialects/languages of the Himalayan regions. You should consult the Sinic languages forum: one of the Himalayan languages, Tibetan, may have a word (and Tibetan is spoken in parts of India, too).


Thank you so much.


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## littlepond

Rainbowlight said:


> joining some lexical dots.



lexical ditches, rather. Best of luck!


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