# Public Acceptance of Evolution in 34 Countries (survey conducted by Science magazine)



## Chazzwozzer

Please click here to see the chart. For the news, just click here. (Or here for Science article, if you have the access.)

* I would like to hear your comments on the results of this survey.*
 What do you think about your country's rank on the chart?
 Are you satisfied with evolution education in your country? Is that the reason why your country ranked high/low?
In your opinion, what was the reason so many people answered "Not Sure" and "False"? Does religion play the key or is it something else?
*As a citizen of the bottommost country, I'd like to go first.*

I'm kind of surprised, actually. Not to see my country in the bottom, but to know that I was right. I always thought that I was living in a country where people can easily be fooled.

Evolution is taught as the only fact in Turkey. Creationism or any other non-scientific theories have no place in science class. In fact, it's not only at school. Almost every national newspaper have additional science magazines which are usually focused on evolutionary biology news, as well as evolution documentaries not only National Geographic and History Channel in Turkey, but also on CNN Türk and so on and so on... But still only 25% of people accept evolution, it says. How come? Well...




> “American Protestantism is more fundamentalist than anybody except perhaps the Islamic fundamentalist, which is why Turkey and we are so close,” said study co-author Jon Miller of Michigan State University.


Nope, not this time. It's not because fundamentalism, it's simply because ignorance.

There's a man named Harun Yahya(Adnan Oktar) who has been suffering from mental disorder of paranoid schizophrenia since 1983. Please see here and here.

It's extremely crazy that incredibly big number of people follow him and believe WHATEVER he says! He even didn't study science at university. He challanges and tries to prove wrong every scientific publication around the world! Just a small example, you've just read that CNN Türk is also a supporter of evolution and shows documentaries. But still, nobody accepts. Well, here it is. Note that everything he claimed are answered by scientists. I know a great source for his lies that he told in his books, but unfortunately it's just in Turkish. You can follow some links on Wikipedia, as well. Talkorigins.com has already answered most of his claims. By the way, I forgot to mention that his books are given away on the street in almost every city of Turkey. (He has hundreds of websites containing anti-evolution stuff)

He was once arrested because he did some illegal acts under the name Science Research Foundation. Note that it's nothing to do with science. It's just a religious foundation that only promotes creationism. It was very genius that he describes himself as a real nationalist and a fan of Atatürk, which makes more people believe in him. Of course, it is not true. His idologies are totally opposite to Atatürk's. He's just trying to have a good image.

He, interestingly, admits that he doesn't really know much about religion. He, however, never gives up promoting creationism and calling Darwin a nazist, anti-Turk (that one is crazy), communist, satanist etc.

He's also famous with his drug parties and orgies.

And yes, as you can clearly understand from the chart, Turkey pretty much listens to him! I'm ready to discuss with any Turk who think Harun Yahya is not the reason. I've got enough proof if you think I'm just making these up.

By the way, I wonder in which part of Cyprus this survey was done. It may be TRNC since Cyprus is in the bottom three with the United States and Turkey, whereas Greece is slightly ranked higher. Or, it may be Greek part of Cyprus since it's the only internationally recognized state known as Cyprus on the island. Or, in both parts of Cyprus. Is there anybody have the access to Science? There must be information about it. Please let me know if you know exactly which part. Otherwise, it's always better not to post personal thoughts in case it may lead a politic discussions which we never want to have here.

Please correct me if I've made any mistakes in grammar. (You can simply PM me, then I'll be glad.)


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## GenJen54

My country is too large for me to make many generalities. 
 
I am personally not too bothered by my country’s place on the chart since evolution is a singular scientific notion. The chart tells me little else than my country is less secular-minded than other countries, which I already knew. 
 
As for being satisfied with evolution education, I really cannot answer that. According to many people, especially those for whom religion plays a dominant role in their lives, the “science” of evolution has yet to be proven. Education cirricula are developed by each individual state. As such, evolution’s role in the classroom is entirely dependent upon the individual science curriculum allowed by each state’s legislature. Further, in some states, such as the one in which I live, religious fundamentalism (protestant evangelism) plays a GREAT role in forming people’s ideas about evolution vs. creationism.
 
To tell you the truth, it’s not a topic that comes up for discussion much.
 
Personally, I have allowed myself to “reconcile” my ideas of “evolution” and “creation,” finding an amalgam of the two, which seems to sate my need for empirical data as well as spiritual fulfillment. Of course, I do not take the bible LITERALLY, as some others do, so my spiritual interpretation is not as “black” and “white” as it is for others.


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## fenixpollo

The interesting thing to me about the chart you posted was the size of the brown bar in the middle -- of people who are not sure. In some countries (e.g. Finland, Czech Rep.), that bar is very small, which indicates that the society is polarized between people who believe strongly on either side.  In other countries (such as Bulgaria, Romania, Latvia), the brown bar indicates that more people are unsure or uncommitted.  

I wonder what it's like to live in a society in which a majority of the people prefer a scientific theory over a religious one; where science has more importance than religion. :sigh:


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## Outsider

Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> What do you think about your country's rank on the chart?


It could be better.



			
				Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> Are you satisfied with evolution education in your country? Is that the reason why your country ranked high/low?


I am not well informed about what's being taught in schools about evolution right now. 
You should also consider that nowadays many households have cable television here, and some channels are dedicated to science. That could have also shaped the opinions of the respondents. 



			
				Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> In your opinion, what was the reason so many people answered "Not Sure" and "False"? Does religion play the key or is it something else?


To answer that, I would like to know what was the question posed to the people who were surveyed.


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## tafanari

I can't believe we are more secular than Turkey!

This is just a study, of course, and it put the entire US in a box but...I think it reflects the importance of religion in shaping thought in the United States.

Fortunately, people still go for their flu shots every winter.


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## maxiogee

A few points.

I find a survey of 34 out of the 190+ nations the UN lists to be of minimal value.
As I don't have the required access I'd be interested if someone could inform us of
* the questions asked (and any possible prompts used to encourage responses)
* the selection criteria for those surveyed
* the selection criteria for the countries which were selected for participation.


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## Outsider

Oops, Maxiogee, I think we both missed this link: 



			
				Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> For the news, just click here.





> Adults in each country were asked whether they thought the statement “Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals,” was true, false, or if they were unsure.


It's a fairly clear question, regarding human evolution. I'm not sure how to interpret the undecided replies.


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## Fernando

Well, it is interesting you have dived for information since the question could be a little tricky.

My position is that we evolved from animals but there was a last "cook touch" to become human. I should have answered pro-evolution, but I am unsure if someone with my position should have answered antievolution (because we think that evolution does not explain ALL).


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## ireney

> I would like to hear your comments on the results of this survey.
> *1.*What do you think about your country's rank on the chart?
> *2.*Are you satisfied with evolution education in your country? Is that the reason why your country ranked high/low?
> *3.*In your opinion, what was the reason so many people answered "Not Sure" and "False"? Does religion play the key or is it something else?



Well, first of all, in answering I will take it as a given that this was a proper survey. This chart is not the best I've seen around and I'm afraid I am not willing to pay to read the article.

1. Depends on the number of older people they've asked. Older people are more religious and they tend to stick to believe in creationism. If they asked mainly middle aged and young people I am rather dissapointed (by the way that 20 years' period really confuses me)

2. It's ok I guess. I would have given more emphasis in Biology as a course myself but it's not bad per se.

3. I have no idea why anyone would be unsure. I see that few Greeks replied so. Religion is the key to why people answered "False". Logically it must also be the reason, combined with science why some replied "not sure".

When it comes to Cyprus by the way, although I don't know, I think that, if it was in the Turkish part of Cyprus (I am trying to find a nautral way to refer to Cyprus but I guess there isn't any really) they would have said so.

Since it refers to Cyprus it's either in all the island or the Greek part. Even if it's only the Greek part, you have to remember that religion is more important in Cyprus (Greek and Turkish part really but I am now referring to the Greek part. What a mess!) than it is in Greece (I would say Turkey too but if there was one part of this survey that was a surprise it was Turkey. I bet the Father of Turks -that's right isn't it?- would be livid)


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## maxiogee

Outsider said:
			
		

> Oops, Maxiogee, I think we both missed this link:



No, I don't think I did 
I asked about the _*questions*_ which were asked.
Anyone familiar with research methodology will tell you that respondents can be 'primed' to answer certain questions by careful selection of the preceding questions.
I still wish to see the questions, selection procedure and methodology before I take a magazine's headline-seeking "opinion poll" seriously.
This strikes me as similar to the almost-annual brouhaha which we see in the press when it is announced that the _Maxiogee English Dictionary_ has included *forer@* in its latest edition (out now in all good bookshops €59.99


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## Chazzwozzer

Fernando said:
			
		

> Well, it is interesting you have dived for information since the question could be a little tricky.


 “Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals,”
I think this question is as clear as azure sky. It's a perfect question about human evolution.
*P.S: *maxiogee, I think they asked only one question. Someone who has access to Science magazine may provide us more information, though.



			
				ireney said:
			
		

> When it comes to Cyprus by the way, although I don't know, I think that, if it was in the Turkish part of Cyprus (I am trying to find a nautral way to refer to Cyprus but I guess there isn't any really) they would have said so.
> 
> Since it refers to Cyprus it's either in all the island or the Greek part. Even if it's only the Greek part, you have to remember that religion is more important in Cyprus (Greek and Turkish part really but I am now referring to the Greek part. What a mess!) than it is in Greece (I would say Turkey too but if there was one part of this survey that was a surprise it was Turkey. I bet the Father of Turks -that's right isn't it?- would be livid)


 If you are refering to Atatürk by Father of Turks, that's right. It's ironic that almost every school in Turkey has a board in their building says: "Science is the only true guide in life." which is quoted by Atatürk.


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## maxiogee

Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> P.S: maxiogee, I think they asked only one question. Someone who has access to Science magazine may provide us more information, though.



I'm still sceptical — read on on that site.

> The current study also analyzed the results
> from a 10-country survey in which adults
> were tested with 10 true or false statements
> about basic concepts from genetics. One of
> the statements was "All plants and animals
> have DNA." Americans had a median score
> of 4. (The correct answer is "yes.")

Anyway, one way or another I have little interest in that survey, or its results.


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## Chazzwozzer

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Anyway, one way or another I have little interest in that survey, or its results.



Inspired by this, I've just created a public-poll.


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## Outsider

Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> “Human beings, as we know them, developed from earlier species of animals,”
> I think this question is as clear as azure sky. It's a perfect question about human evolution.


In understand Fernando's point of view. For those who believe that a creator intervened in human evolution, or in the emergence of life on Earth, just answering "true" or "false" may seem insufficient.


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## Chazzwozzer

Outsider said:
			
		

> In understand Fernando's point of view. For those who believe that a creator intervened in human evolution, or in the emergence of life on Earth, just answering "true" or "false" may seem insufficient.


 I believe people who think_ God created humans by guiding evolution_ may answer "not sure." I bet they could also say _God controls the solar system through gravity. _


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## Fernando

Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> I bet they could also say _God controls the solar system through gravity. _



Bingo!

As a matter of fact, it is a bit more complicated. God said "Let the light be!" And Big Bang exploded. The rest is just History.


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## panjabigator

> What do you think about your country's rank on the chart?
> Are you satisfied with evolution education in your country? Is that the reason why your country ranked high/low?
> In your opinion, what was the reason so many people answered "Not Sure" and "False"? Does religion play the key or is it something else?


1.  I am not suprised at all by the US's standing.  What I was a little suprised about was Turkey's.  I thought that since Turkey is a very secular nation they would be higher up on the list.  I remember reading posts (I can't remember which forer@ posted it) about women in head scarfs not being allowed in libraries, so I thought that religion must not be that big of a factor.  Apparently, I shouldn't make such correlations.
2.  Eh, no I am not satified.  It could be the reason.  In every school I have gone to, they have taught evolution.  But there are some schools where the topic is barely touched.  
3.  I believe religion and education are the factors.  Nothing is wrong with religion, but education is lacking.  How can one make an educated decision if only one argument/side/belief/theory is presented?


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## Tsoman

I am very pleased with my country's standing (USA), not because of how many people believe evolution is true, but because the percentage of 'not sure' is very high compared to other countries. This shows that people are thinking for themselves or at least not blindly believing in either ideology.

I'm not religious but neither do I believe in evolution.


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## danielfranco

I am interested in evolution, but don't care much about surveys. That's because I agree with the Anthropic Principle (at least as much as I can understand it!) Anyway, surveys have a built-in "sampling problem", and that has been demonstrated by polls... 
Evolution, however, is not the ultimate answer. I think one has to throw in a bit of the Emergent Behavior Theory, and a lot of Complexity Theory (formerly Chaos) to even start getting close to postulating a hypothesis on the appearance of full-fledged human sentience on this planet.
Maybe...


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## tvdxer

Thank you for that very interesting link.

My country's percentages do not at all surprise me.  I am very glad we tend to be more religious than most of the countries on the list, even though I personally agree with evolution as a scientific concept.  Well, I must qualify that by saying I believe evolution almost certainly occurred, and is still occurring, but that alone does very little justice in explaining the origin of the universe and life, etc.  

As for "evolution education", we indeed did learn about it.  I don't remember creationism being mentioned in public school, although it caused a bit of a tangle, but one that was easily resolved, while I was in religious school.  The Catholic Church generally takes a more "modern" stance on the issue than fundamentalist Protestantism.  To be frank, I don't think teaching evolution or intelligent design really makes too much of a difference - most kids in biology and other classes simply do their homework and study for their tests to do good in class, take home a nice report card, and be able to submit it to a university and pave a nice road for themselves in life.  Do they ardently apply their mind to their studies in order to become more knowledgeable people, or simply go through the motions helpful in attaining a high standard of living?

As for "Not sure" or "False", I must say that I am proud to come from a country that does not accept what the current elite intellectual / scientific / academic establishment has to say with blind faith.  Creationism also is a very strong social current in the US, at least in parts of it.


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## maxiogee

Tsoman said:
			
		

> I am very pleased with my country's standing (USA), not because of how many people believe evolution is true, but because the percentage of 'not sure' is very high compared to other countries. This shows that people are thinking for themselves or at least not blindly believing in either ideology.
> 
> I'm not religious but neither do I believe in evolution.



I have never heard evolution described as an ideology before


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## ireney

Tsoman said:
			
		

> I am very pleased with my country's standing (USA), not because of how many people believe evolution is true, but because the percentage of 'not sure' is very high compared to other countries. This shows that people are thinking for themselves or at least not blindly believing in either ideology.
> 
> I'm not religious but neither do I believe in evolution.




So you actually believe that all those who believe in either creationsim or evolution are lemmings who  blindly follow one or the other?


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## Victoria32

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Personally, I have allowed myself to “reconcile” my ideas of “evolution” and “creation,” finding an amalgam of the two, which seems to sate my need for empirical data as well as spiritual fulfillment. Of course, I do not take the bible LITERALLY, as some others do, so my spiritual interpretation is not as “black” and “white” as it is for others.


I agree GenJen, I am a Christian, but not a Bible literalist, so I have no problem with evolution. In NZ, creationism and a lack of acceptance of evolution have never been issues (at least not until very recently) Evolution is taught in schools as a matter of course.


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## Chazzwozzer

panjabigator said:
			
		

> 1.  I am not suprised at all by the US's standing.  What I was a little suprised about was Turkey's.  I thought that since Turkey is a very secular nation they would be higher up on the list.  I remember reading posts (I can't remember which forer@ posted it) about women in head scarfs not being allowed in libraries, so I thought that religion must not be that big of a factor.  Apparently, I shouldn't make such correlations.


 Heh. 

Like I said in my first post, I'm certain it's not mainly because of religious reasons, but simply because of ignorance. Of course,  religion must have played important role for some, but it was not the key player for majority. How come I can generalize that way? Well, as I've observed online Turkish forums, people think evolution has now been proven wrong. (Do you know what's so funny about it? They think it's been proven wrong by Harun Yahya, the guy I told you about in the first post.). Oh and, I have some atheist friends who find evolution ridiculous, they think creationism is nonesense, as well. (A bunch of know-it-all who know squat.) Well, that's what I'm talking about.

By the way, some newspapers publish the result of this survey as a very bad news and criticize it. Especially, a national newspaper named Republic, which is one of the biggest evolution supporter media in Turkey, has headlined the news on its first page and as I've read on the internet, they exaggerated the percentage to make it look more pathetic and implied the religion was responsible for bein non-scientific. 





			
				Tsoman said:
			
		

> I am very pleased with my country's standing (USA), not because of how many people believe evolution is true, but because the percentage of 'not sure' is very high compared to other countries. This shows that people are thinking for themselves or at least not blindly believing in either ideology.
> 
> I'm not religious but neither do I believe in evolution.


 Well, Tsoman, it would be funny if you told us that you believed in evolution, anyway. Evolution is a scientific theory, not a system of belief. So you accept it or not, like you accept the theory that the Earth revolves around the sun, and the Earth is not a center of the universe. Otherwise, you may say "I don't accept Copernican theory. I believe that Sun revolves around the Earth and the planet in which we are living is a center of the universe." And you may also say: "I don't accept gravitational theory, I believe things fall to the ground because they are pulled down by God." and so on.


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## Outsider

tvdxer said:
			
		

> As for "Not sure" or "False", I must say that I am proud to come from a country that does not accept what the current elite intellectual / scientific / academic establishment has to say with blind faith.  Creationism also is a very strong social current in the US, at least in parts of it.


However, science is a matter of evidence, not blind faith. 

I can understand someone replying "Not sure" for the reasons that Fernando gave on the previous page: they believe there is more to life and mankind than biology.

But if the indecision of some respondents is due to an "equal mistrust" of biology and creationism, then I must conclude that they either have never seen, or did not understand, the overwhelming evidence for evolution. That does seem to be a failing of the education system they went through.


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