# Tense/Aspect of Te-Form



## Beejay

今日は、皆さん！

I was hoping you guys could help me understand something that I've been finding confusing about some Japanese verb conjugations; in particular, the "て-form" and its apparent similarity to English's "-ing" verb suffix. I really need to ask multiple questions, so I hope you'll bare with me. 

First off: Does the て-form only convey the continuous tense when followed by いる or does it convey this by itself? I've noticed in anime, sometimes characters say "ちょっと　まって" but don't even add "ください" when they are requesting that someone wait. Is ください an expected default attachment to the て-form of a verb or something?

Second: Sometimes I look up Japanese words on Wiktionary. They have these conjugation tables they use to show how to conjugate a word. I noticed they have a "Continuative" form there which is not at all like the て-form. Are continuative and continuous forms completely different things? I've been further confused by the phrase "もうしもうし" when Japanese people pick up the phone, because on Wiktionary, "もうし" is listed as the continuative form for "もうす", so I've basically took "もうしもうし" to mean "Speaking speaking". I've never seen that continuative form used like the english "-ing" suffix anywhere else, so I'm pondering that "もうしもうし" doesn't quite mean what I think it means. What does it mean? :\

Third: This is probably the part that intrigues me the most. The last part about the て-form's continuous tense function that confuses me is how it seems often used in ways where in English we wouldn't use the "-ing" suffix. For example, I've been listening to Pimsleur Japanese AudioBooks, and one of the phrases mentioned was "おみせはあいていますか" to mean "Are the stores open?". Ugh, this is really hard to put in to words.. But, I think I mean to ask something like this: Would I be correct to assume that when -ている is used with a verb, it indicates an ongoing state, rather than an action that will be soon completed?

I'll try to clarify a little more.. Using the "Are the stores open?" example, if I took -ている to be the same as English "-ing", it would become "Are the stores opening?", which is asking when the store initially opens, not whether it is in the state of being open.

Anywayyy.. Looks like I ranted a bit there. Thanks in advance!


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## soka

> First off: Does the て-form only convey the continuous tense when followed by いる or does it convey this by itself? I've noticed in anime, sometimes characters say "ちょっと　まって" but don't even add "ください" when they are requesting that someone wait. Is ください an expected default attachment to the て-form of a verb or something?


The て-form here is used as request and 下さい　means please, so you translate ちょと　待って as "Please wait a moment" and ちょっと　待って　as "Wait a moment".


> Second: Sometimes I look up Japanese words on Wiktionary. They have these conjugation tables they use to show how to conjugate a word. I noticed they have a "Continuative" form there which is not at all like the て-form. Are continuative and continuous forms completely different things? I've been further confused by the phrase "もうしもうし" when Japanese people pick up the phone, because on Wiktionary, "もうし" is listed as the continuative form for "もうす", so I've basically took "もうしもうし" to mean "Speaking speaking". I've never seen that continuative form used like the english "-ing" suffix anywhere else, so I'm pondering that "もうしもうし" doesn't quite mean what I think it means. What does it mean?


I don't know about the continuative form, but it's もしもし and it just means "hello" when speaking on the phone.


> Third: This is probably the part that intrigues me the most. The last part about the て-form's continuous tense function that confuses me is how it seems often used in ways where in English we wouldn't use the "-ing" suffix. For example, I've been listening to Pimsleur Japanese AudioBooks, and one of the phrases mentioned was "おみせはあいていますか" to mean "Are the stores open?". Ugh, this is really hard to put in to words.. But, I think I mean to ask something like this: Would I be correct to assume that when -ている is used with a verb, it indicates an ongoing state, rather than an action that will be soon completed?
> 
> I'll try to clarify a little more.. Using the "Are the stores open?" example, if I took -ている to be the same as English "-ing", it would become "Are the stores opening?", which is asking when the store initially opens, not whether it is in the state of being open.


The て+いる　form apart of being used as the English -ing ending, it's also used to describe a habitual action and a condition.
For example, if I say レストランでひるごはんを食べています, it means "I'm having lunch at the restaurant". If I say 毎日レストランでひるごはんを食べています, it means "Everyday I have lunch at the restaurant".


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## samanthalee

The て+いる　form should not be thought of as equivalent to the English -ing ending, because it's going to open up a lot of traps if you think of it that way. Rather, it is an expression of continuity or repetitive action.
The following are 4 situations when we'll use the て+いる　form and only one of them involves the English -ing ending

*1) Present imperfect - expressing continuing action*
I'm reading the newspaper now:　今、新聞を読んでいる。

*2) Present perfect - expressing continuing state*
a) He has gone to school: 今、学校に行っている。
b) I have already read the book: もおその本は読んでいる。
c) I'm married: 結婚している。
*
3) Simple present - expressing continuing behaviour*
a) I live in Tokyo: 東京に住んでいる。
b) I subscribe to the Asahi Shimbun: 朝日新聞をよんでいる。

*4) Simple present - expressing repetitive action*
a) I read the newspaper every morning: 毎朝、新聞を読んでいる。
b) He goes to school by bus: バスで学校に行っている。

Another thing to note is that the future imperfect usage of the English -ing ending is not expressed with the て+いる form.

The example of "Are the stores open?" would of course fall under the "present perfect - expressing continuing state" category.


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## Beejay

Thanks samanthalee, that does clarify it a bit. 

There's just one of your examples I'm confused about..



samanthalee said:


> b) I have already read the book: もおその本は読んでいる。



If that is so, then what would 「もうその本は読んだ」 mean in contrast to your example?


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## Flaminius

Sam said:
			
		

> I have already read the book: も*う*その本は読んでいる。


This contrasts with もうその本は読んだ as an opposition between perfect and past. In a longer explanation (which suits my long-winding propensity but is useful for avoiding confusion with the same term in grammars of other languages);
Perfect denotes a status of the present which is the result of an event that was started in the past with no clear indication of the completion time. The event is often regarded as having happened in the immediate past but not necessarily so. The key to understanding here is the event's close connection with the present state. Past, in contrast, regards the event that the verb refers to as something that has been acted out. Its connection with the present is weaker than that of perfect.

Japanese tense/aspect is not as clear as that of English but I find the two sentences under discussion having different connotations. The one with perfect hints at the knowledge absorbed from the book. If I am to write a next sentence suitable for the nuance, I'd say, "So I know that Princess Margarette dies before the last chapter."

The one with past implies, among many other possible interpretations (sigh), that the book does not attract the interest of the speaker any longer. A next sentence I can conjure up in this context is, "So I go to the library tomorrow and return it."

*Samantha*, your explanation is very impressive but let me consider it for a while.


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## Aoyama

> *Samantha*, your explanation is very impressive but let me consider it for a while.


It must be , but I beg to differ on a few points :

-b) I have already read the book: もおその本は読んでいる。
I'd say: もうその本は[すでに」読んだ。

a) I read the newspaper every morning: 毎朝、新聞を読んでいる。
b) He goes to school by bus: バスで学校に行っている。

Both of these phrases and their English translation are correct, but they could also very well be translated using the -ing structure :
a) I am reading the n. every morning
b) he is going to s. by bus

This being said, 





> The て+いる　form should not be thought of as equivalent to the English -ing ending, because it's going to open up a lot of traps


 remains very true.


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## samanthalee

Flaminius said:


> Originally Posted by *Sam*
> I have already read the book: も*う*その本は読んでいる。
Click to expand...

Oh?! I hate that!(Angry with myself.) That's the problem with having started Japanese lessons with Romanji.
Right, I will make myself write "I will remember that 'moo' is actually 'mou'." on the blackboard a hundred times.



Aoyama said:


> but I beg to differ on a few points :


You are right, Aoyama, about the alternative English translations. Though the example of "he is going to school by bus" sounds as if it can be a future imperfect too.



Flaminius said:


> *Samantha*, your explanation is very impressive but let me consider it for a while.


Thank you for your compliment. Sorry to say that this is about the only thing that I can remember clearly from my Japanese lessons, since it had been drilled into my head. The rest of the stuff I've learnt is totally gone from my memories after graduating from varsity.



Beejay said:


> 「もうその本は読んだ」


It's different from  "もうその本は読んでいる。" How shall I explain this in English ... and be less long-winded than Flaminius?
OK. If someone asks you, "Do you want to read this?"
And you reply, "Oh, I've already read that.", that will be "もうその本は読んでいる。" 
But if you say, "Oh I've just completed reading that.", that will be "もうその本は読んだ".
(Oh dear, there's an English -ing here. I tried not to use it, but I can't think of an equivalent term for "completed reading" that doesn't contain the -ing. Sorry, not trying to cause further confusion, but well....)


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## cheshire

ムッシュー青山、I don't think " a) I am reading the n. every morning" is a natural English sentence. But I know it's not to be discussed here.



> The one with past implies, *among many other possible interpretations (sigh),* that the book does not attract the interest of the speaker any longer. A next sentence I can conjure up in this context is, "So I go to the library tomorrow and return it."


フラさん、I know you know well from the bold part that the interpretation you offered is not the only possible choice. I'm sure learners will find lots of instances where almost opposite meaning can be felt.Simple past/perfect: 近所の神童、順君は小３なのにもうその本は読んだ/読んでいる。​読んでいる　sounds more grammatical than 読んだ in above sentence, but still 読んだ is not wrong. Both versions leave the possibility that the book is none the less important still for him even though he has already read it.

Yet basically I agree with the similarity between the English difference between simple past vs. perfect and Japanese equivalents.

It would be easier to note this: 読んだ　is just simple past. 読んでいる is more like 読んだ状態の私がいる。　This is quite similar to West European languages including English.I have written a letter.​This sentence used to be "I have a letter written." In Japanese, 「書かれた状態の手紙を私は持っている。」

「状態の...である/持っている」　shows that the subject has a strong connection with the present.

EDIT: I think original poster would have had no problem with this grammar if he were Chinese. I was pleasantly surprised by the similarity between 着　and ている.


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## Beejay

Honestly, I'm completely confused now. 

I have a pretty bad flu at the moment. When I don't feel so crappy, I'll read over your replies slowly and try to grasp what you're talking about better... Or maybe I simply bit off more than I can chew right now.


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## cheshire

I experience that a lot (that I'm overwhelmed by too much information, even admitting that they are helpful).
You might as well get back and read it in two months later (wherever comes from the number? I wonder).
But you don't have to believe all that is written in bulletin boards. I occasionally find some mistakes in my past writing.

Basically, you should remember the following.
But た　can also describe present state. You don't have to note it, it's for advanced learners. If you're still a biginner, it'll unnecessarily complicate the matter.

ている　= have -p.p., or present state
た　= simple past


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## Flaminius

samanthalee said:


> *1) Present imperfect - expressing continuing action*
> I'm reading the newspaper now:　今、新聞を読んでいる。
> 
> *2) Present perfect - expressing continuing state*
> a) He has gone to school: 今、学校に行っている。
> b) I have already read the book: もうその本は読んでいる。
> c) I'm married: 結婚している。
> *
> 3) Simple present - expressing continuing behaviour*
> a) I live in Tokyo: 東京に住んでいる。
> b) I subscribe to the Asahi Shimbun: 朝日新聞をよんでいる。
> 
> *4) Simple present - expressing repetitive action*
> a) I read the newspaper every morning: 毎朝、新聞を読んでいる。
> b) He goes to school by bus: バスで学校に行っている。


I have been thinking that 3 and 4 could be merged into 1.  On a closer look, however, maintaining four tense/aspect for te-form is perfectly reasonable.

Admittedly the distinctions of the three tense/aspects are invisible in verb itself.  朝日新聞を読んでいる is without further context to be understood as expressing continuing behaviour but can become imperfect or an aspect for repetitive action with adverbs 今 and 毎朝.  One could argue that these tense/aspects are not coded in verb forms but expressed by virtue of specific adverbs.  Yet looking at 住んでいる, I sense the duration for which the action continues is far greater than the duration implied in imperfect (a rather momentary duration).  I can see the necessity of postulating a different tense/aspect for this locution from present imperfect.

Note also that 住んでいる cannot express repetitive action in any context.  This proves that separating 3 and 4 is a valid distinction even contrasting verbs only; not sentences with adverbs as well as verbs.

If a beginner can see similarities between Japanese _te_-forms and English V-_ing_ forms, a good starting point is the distinction between numbers 1 and 2 (imperfect and perfect).  When he gets to learn about stative verbs (e.g., 知っている, 空いている), continuing behaviour and repetitive action can be branched from a tentative concept of imperfect.


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