# mettre en coupe réglée



## Jonvaljean

Hello,

This one has stumpted me.

In Le Monde:

Cette région pauvre du sud de l'Italie a décidé de faire rendre gorge à la 'Ndrangheta, la puissante mafia locale qui, depuis des décennies, a mis le territoire en coupe réglée.

What does "mettre en coupe réglée" mean?

Merci

Jon


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## Aupick

*Mettre en coupe réglée* « exploiter systématiquement (une personne, une collectivité) » est, comme coupe sombre, une métaphore forestière (xviie siècle). La coupe réglée est l'exploitation méthodique d'un bois par abattage.

Le Robert, Dictionnaire des expressions et locutions.


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## Agnès E.

*Coupe réglée *is often used to express a strong power from a group on another, generally in a negative sense (abusive power). Mon Robert & Collins donne, comme traduction : *to bleed systematically*.


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## Thomas Tompion

Henri Murger uses the expression in Chapter IX of _Scènes de la vie de bohème_ in a way closer to its meaning in Forestry - _in prescribed doses:

Il avait mis en coupe reglée le peu de meubles qu'il avait - _he put them by his stove, so that he could burn them at a constant rate, so here _en coupe reglée_ must mean something like 'in measured portions'.

The one English translation I could find put _he cut up successively what little furniture he had_ which doesn't quite get the sense, I think.

Is there a suggestion that he cut up the furniture before burning it, or just that he arranged (_mettait_) the furniture in measured doses, so that he wouldn't extravagantly burn it all at once?


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## OLN

Ça ne signifie pas qu'il a littéralement (dé)coupé ses meubles au fur et à mesure. Le sens est figuré :  il a tiré profit du peu de meubles qu'il avait ; il n a prélevé régulièrement une partie, l'a exploité en le transformant en combustible.


> _Au fig._ _Mettre qqn_ ou _qqc. en coupes réglées._ *En tirer parti de façon répétée et abusive. *
> _J'ai mis, comme vous, les sots en coupes réglées_ (Balzac, _Splend. et mis.,_1844, p. 14).
> COUPE : Définition de COUPE





> Fig. Coupe réglée, prélèvement qui se répète régulièrement.
> Sous le premier empire la population de la France était mise en coupe réglée par la conscription.
> Mettre quelqu'un en coupe réglée, imposer à quelqu'un, d'une façon régulière, des privations, des sacrifices d'argent.
> Littré - coupe - définition, citations, étymologie


tap, tap into?


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## Thomas Tompion

OLN said:


> Ça ne signifie pas qu'il a littéralement (dé)coupé ses meubles au fur et à mesure. Le sens est figuré :  il a tiré profit du peu de meubles qu'il avait ; il en a prélevé régulièrement une partie, l'a exploité en le transformant en combustible.


That's most helpful, OLN.  Thank you.

I think the English translator was misled by the word '_coupe_' into imagining work with an axe or a saw.  It's an understandable mistake, though not one a professional ought to make.

I don't actually receive the sense that there is any abuse implied in Rudolf's treatment of his furniture, more an impression of imposed order, on furniture, which would not be able to show its resentment, despite Murger's taste for personification.


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## OLN

Je ne vois pas là d'idée de "mauvais traitement", d'acharnement contre ses pauvres meubles . Je comprends qu'il a agi avec détermination, implacablement, parce qu'il n'avait d'autre choix que de sacrifier le peu de meubles qu'il avait.

P.S. :  un traducteur devrait connaître l'expression "mettre qc/qn en coupe réglée" et devrait être mieux inspiré


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## Thomas Tompion

OLN said:


> P.S. : un traducteur devrait connaître l'expression "mettre qc/qn en coupe réglée" et devrait être mieux inspiré


Yes, I agree entirely.  He should be familiar with these idiomatic uses of familiar words.  That was why I was asking about this idiom, which has quite a figurative life of its own.

Maybe Murger's wild personifications led him or her astray.


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## Thomas Tompion

I think maybe the English verb to _exploit_ might be appropriate here.  It can have both an abusive sense - _he exploited the fact that she was deaf_ - or a morally neutral one -_ he exploited the land behind the house to grow vegetables_.

We are now missing the sense of successive equal portions, it seems to me.


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## Itisi

'to be used parcimoniously' something along those lines...


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## Thomas Tompion

Itisi said:


> 'to be used parcimoniously' something along those lines...


Thanks.  _*To eke out*_, perhaps.


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## OLN

> Aux premières atteintes du froid, Rodolphe avait recouru à un système particulier de chauffage: il avait mis en coupe réglée le peu de meubles qu’il avait, et au bout de huit jours son mobilier se trouva considérablement abrégé,  il ne lui restait plus que le lit et deux chaises


_ 
Exploit/milk/bleed _etc_._ _systematically_ or _methodically_ works in usual contexts (profit financially from something). The expression is not as easy to translate in your context because the author uses "mettre en coupe réglée" in an even more figurative way, applying it to wooden objects that are actually cut to pieces (play on words : abattre des arbres, couper du bois).
I'm not so sure about_ parsimoniously_._ Réglé _means _regulated_ (submitted to an imposed order, as Thomas said before); Rodolph made drastic "cuts" and was not reluctant do do so.
How about_ he had been cutting up methodically what little furniture he had_? _Methodically_ (in an orderly fixed series)_, _would refer to "un système".
Is there a way to use _clearcutting* _(forestry metaphor)?
__________________
*More details and this other figurative expression derived from forestry terms (same TLFi page):


> *2.* _Spéc., SYLVICULTURE_
> *a)* Opération consistant à abattre des arbres dans un bois, dans une forêt. (...)
> − _*Coupe claire.*_ Coupe forte, consistant en un abattage d'un grand nombre d'arbres et permettant une large arrivée de lumière.
> − _Coupe sombre_ (ou _coupe d'ensemencement_). Coupe faible (qui laisse la forêt sombre) ne portant que sur quelques arbres et destinée à favoriser l'ensemencement naturel. (...)
> ♦ _Au fig.,_ dans la _lang. cour._ et par contresens sur le mot « sombre ». _Faire des coupes sombres. _Effectuer des suppressions importantes dans un écrit; éliminer une partie considérable d'un personnel, d'un groupe, d'une société. _On a fait des coupes sombres dans les tirades _(Goncourt)._ Les coupes sombres pratiquées dans le personnel par l'ennemi et ses complices _(De Gaulle).


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## Thomas Tompion

Thank you very much, OLN.

So for you work with a saw or axe is implied.  Certainly a chair would need some trimming before you put it into a wood-burning stove.

I understood you to take the contrary view earlier:



OLN said:


> Ca ne signifie pas qu'il a littéralement (dé)coupé ses meubles au fur et à mesure. Le sens est figuré : il a tiré profit du peu de meubles qu'il avait ; il en a prélevé régulièrement une partie, l'a exploité en le transformant en combustible.


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## Itisi

With 'réglées', I understood that he was making what he had last as long as possible, and doing this methodically, and that the accent is more on that than on cutting/chopping...?


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## Thomas Tompion

Itisi said:


> With 'réglées',[...]


Remember it's a singular.


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## Wodwo

Standing up for literary translators everywhere here - and yes, every translation can be criticised, but translating a book is a lot harder than picking tiny holes in it afterwards - it seems to me that "coupe reglée" does carry more or less conscious echoes of cutting wood, which was precisely what had to be done to the furniture. As we don't have an English idiom that works in quite the same way, the translator wrote a sentence that makes sense in context, gets the right idea over and retains something of the original. Well done them say I.


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## Thomas Tompion

Wodwo said:


> Standing up for literary translators everywhere here - and yes, every translation can be criticised, but translating a book is a lot harder than picking tiny holes in it afterwards - it seems to me that "coupe reglée" does carry more or less conscious echoes of cutting wood, which was precisely what had to be done to the furniture. As we don't have an English idiom that works in quite the same way, the translator wrote a sentence that makes sense in context, gets the right idea over and retains something of the original. Well done them say I.


Many thank, Wodwo.  So you think the French contains the idea of cutting up the wood before burning it, rather than arranging it before the stove in measured doses for burning?


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## Wodwo

I think the idea of cutting is there implicitly and in the word "coupe", but French is not my first language and non-native speakers tend to over interpret dead metaphors in my experience. "Coupe réglée" is about the methodical exploitation of woodland though, and here you've got the methodical exploitation of furniture for burning, which necessarily requires it to be cut up...

Does it matter whether it was cut up directly to be burned or to be put in piles first? Does the book go into this kind of detail? If so, there's your answer, if not, up to you to guess.


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## tartopom

_systematically bleed dry_
  ??


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## Thomas Tompion

Wodwo said:


> [...]
> Does it matter whether it was cut up directly to be burned or to be put in piles first?


Your question suggests you think detailed elucidation of text a waste of time.  My point was that the poet would have been very unlikely to cut anything up.  The attic is not equipped with saws.  Any breaking up of the furniture will have been done by hand.  That was the point really.

Of course it matters to know what precisely Murger intended us to understand by the phrase.  I was translating him and wanted to get it right.

You mustn't think that 'en coupe réglée' is a dead metaphor.  It was even used as the title of a translation of Richard Stark's novel The Score.


tartopom said:


> systematically bleed dry


Thanks very much, Tartopom, I'm not sure that carries the sense of 'measured doses'.


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## tartopom

Oh, sorry I was speaking about the Mafia -#1.


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## Wodwo

Thomas, of course I don't think detailed elucidation of text is a waste of time, but there are some questions that can't be answered. In my experience, even authors can't always answer them. And when you're translating, you have to prioritise, because no language coincides completely with any other, or they'd be de facto same language. So you have to decide what you want to keep and what you can afford or bear to let go. I suggest that if the answer to your question is not already in the text, it was not sufficiently important to the author to include that degree of detail, and readers (as opposed to translators) may not care either. So if you do, you will have to answer the question yourself.

A dead metaphor is a metaphor that has lost its original concrete meaning, so no one who uses it thinks of what it originally meant. As an example, I realised yesterday that I have used the phrase "blind as a bat" all my life, without ever once considering whether bats really are blind (apparently not). It's just a set phrase. The title you mention suggests that this loss of the original meaning might have happened to "en coupe réglée", because in your case it seems to be a reference to cutting drugs perhaps, or maybe even people, rather than woodland, though as I haven't read the book I don't know, of course.

In the context of the text you are translating, the fact that you say the attic with the furniture had no saws to cut with again indicates that "en coupe réglée" is being used as a dead metaphor, since you say no cutting was involved. That does sound tricky for burning furniture though, and I wonder whether the author had really thought this one through! Again, you are far better placed than me to decide.


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## tartopom

Thomas Tompion said:


> Il avait mis en coupe reglée le peu de meubles qu'il avait



'il avait mis en coupe r*é*glée [ses] meubles' as if his room was a forest / wood and his pieces of furniture were trees. And each time he was so chilly he chose a *tree* / piece of furniture and *felled it* / sawed, broke it and burnt it.


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## Wodwo

Sounds like a great interpretation to me tartopom, but without more context we can't really know...


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

"he sacrificed his furniture one piece at a time"? He had to break or cut it up, but it's going into the stove, so I wonder whether "immolated" mightn't work here for their "sacrifice" (far-fetched, I know).


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## Thomas Tompion

tartopom said:


> 'il avait mis en coupe r*é*glée [ses] meubles' as if his room was a forest / wood and his pieces of furniture were trees. And each time he was so chilly he chose a *tree* / piece of furniture and *felled it* / sawed, broke it and burnt it.


Thank you very much for persevering.  And thank you for correcting my early omissions of the first e acute in _réglée._

I don't think the image is easy.  Murger's language is very rich in figures of various kinds.  I'm attracted by your idea of the room as a forest; my only reservation would concern your treatment of the past perfect in Murger's sentence,  _Il avait mis en coupe reglée le peu de meubles qu'il avait.  _The prescribed quantities for the day were already measured out and placed beside the stove ready for use, not measured out when he needed firewood.

I'm sure it would help if I gave a little more of the text.  Rudolf is a penniless poet living in a garret at the top of a tall block in Paris, in about 1845.   _Aux premières atteintes du froid, Rodolphe avait recouru à un système particulier de chauffage : il avait mis en coupe réglée le peu de meubles qu’il avait, et au bout de huit jours son mobilier se trouva considérablement abrégé, il ne lui restait plus que le lit et deux chaises ; il est vrai de dire que ces meubles étaient en fer et, par ainsi, naturellement assurés contre l’incendie. _ 

So the furniture has already been broken up into manageable portions and placed by the stove ready to be burned.  The essence of my question was whether or not_ en coupe réglée_ implied cutting up of any kind.  As a result of the early posts in the thread, for which I was very grateful, I got the impression that the suggestion was of measured doses and that there was no implication that saws, knives, or axes had been used by Rudolf.  This accorded with the general view one receives of Rudolf and his friends, as disinclined to possess or deploy carpenters tools of any kind.


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## Wodwo

Surely it just means that when the cold arrived he culled the furniture (by burning it) in stages, until he had nothing burnable left. There's nothing here to suggest manageable portions piled up. "Coupe réglée" means regular harvesting of wood in a woodland, and by extension regular exploitation of anything. The exploitation here would have to be burning, surely, rather than storage, which wouldn't have kept him warm.

The plus-que-parfait is used because the burning of the furniture happened before the "now" of the text – which is also in the past ("il lui restait") – when he only had the iron bedstead and chairs left.


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## tartopom

Um... I guess if he was so bad off then he couldn't afford any tools. But I can imagine that the furniture wasn't made of high quality wood. Then it must have been easy for him to break furniture over his knees or smash it.

He 'avait mis en coupe réglée' that is - to me- he had regularly repeated and repeated and repeated the same 'technical mouvement' = breaking the furniture.


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## Thomas Tompion

tartopom said:


> Um... I guess if he was so bad off then he couldn't afford any tools. But I can imagine that the furniture wasn't made of high quality wood. Then it must have been easy for him to break furniture over his knees or smash it.
> 
> He 'avait mis en coupe réglée' that is - to me- he had regularly repeated and repeated and repeated the same 'technical mouvement' = breaking the furniture.


Merci.  Je suis tout à fait d'accord.


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## tartopom

Thomas Tompion said:


> et au bout de huit jours son mobilier se trouva considérablement abrégé


I'm a wee bit confused. Does it only mean after 8 days he had burnt all his furniture - except the 2 chairs and bed? = the furniture was destroyed at the beginning of the week.
Or that he had also finished breaking his last piece of furniture on the last day of the week. = the furniture was broken throughout the week. 

Not sure what I've just written makes sense. Sorry.


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## Garoubet

tartopom said:


> I guess if he was so bad off then he couldn't afford any tools


At that time, a small hatchet was part of the usual fireplace tool set in town houses and was used to cut small wood to start the fire.



Wodwo said:


> Surely it just means that when the cold arrived he culled the furniture (by burning it) in stages, until he had nothing burnable left. There's nothing here to suggest manageable portions piled up. "Coupe réglée" means regular harvesting of wood in a woodland, and by extension regular exploitation of anything.


I fully agree with this interpretation. In this context, coupe réglé has the following meaning: mettre en coupes réglées - dictionnaire des expressions françaises - définition, origine, étymologie - Expressio par Reverso'.
Au sens figuré, _mettre en coupes réglées_ signifiait 'imposer indûment à un individu, à une collectivité *des prélèvements périodiques*, des sacrifices onéreux'. 
I retain in the text only the periodical aspect of taking every day a little bit of the furniture for heating.


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## Thomas Tompion

Garoubet said:


> I retain in the text only the periodical aspect of taking every day a little bit of the furniture for heating.[...]


Great.  Thank you, so the word 'coupe' is not here suggesting cutting of any kind.

That was the point at issue for me.


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