# Care if I join you?



## Brave Heart

Hi all,

I have this sentence from a TV show: "Care if I join you?", said by a man, who walked over to a table.

Is my understanding correct that "Care if I join you?" is interchangeable with "Mind if I join you?" ?  

Thanks.


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## bibliolept

You are correct.


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## Brave Heart

Thanks bibliolept. I appreciate your help.


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## bibliolept

Again, my pleasure.


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## Brave Heart

Let me revive this thread.

Can I assume that "Care if I join you?" and "Mind if I join you?" sound much less formal than "Do you care if I join you?" and "Do you mind if I join you?", respectively?

Thanks.


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## Packard

bibliolept said:


> You are correct.


 

Where?  

I never heard "care if I join you?".  In the East Coast of the USA at least I only hear "Mind if I join you?"  ("Why?  Am I falling apart?")


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## tomandjerryfan

Brave Heart said:


> Let me revive this thread.
> 
> Can I assume that "Care if I join you?" and "Mind if I join you?" sound much less formal than "Do you care if I join you?" and "Do you mind if I join you?", respectively?
> 
> Thanks.


 
Yes, that's correct.

"Care if I join you?" and "Mind if I join you?" are both interchangeable and are much more familiar than "Do you care/mind if I join you?"


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## nichec

Packard said:


> Where?
> 
> I never heard "care if I join you?". In the East Coast of the USA at least I only hear "Mind if I join you?" ("Why? Am I falling apart?")


 
I wonder if this is again some kind of *Packardish joke* that I don't get....

"Care/Mind if I join you?" is very common as far as I am concerned. (and yes, I am talking about East Coast of the USA)


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## Packard

nichec said:


> I wonder if this is again some kind of *Packardish joke* that I don't get....
> 
> "Care/mind if I join you?" is very common as far as I am concerned. (and yes, I am talking about East Coast of the USA)


 

OK.  I have re-read this.  I have heard "Do you mind if I join you."

"Mind if I join you" sounded very unfamiliar.

Usually I just say, "Yo, babes..."


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## nichec

Packard said:


> OK. I have re-read this. I have heard "Do you mind if I join you."
> 
> "Mind if I join you" sounded very unfamiliar.
> 
> Usually I just say, "Yo, babes..."


 
And do you really manage to get any date like that? 

I've always thought that "Care/Mind if I join you?" is just the result of saying "(Do you) care/mind if I join you?" *too fast*.


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## Packard

nichec said:


> And do you really manage to get any dates like that?
> 
> I've always thought that "Care/Mind if I join you?" is just the result of saying "(Do you) care/mind if I join you?" *too fast*.


 
Probably; I enunciate carefully though and I would say, "Do you mind if I join you."


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## Brave Heart

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. 



nichec said:


> I've always thought that "Care/Mind if I join you?" is just the result of saying "(Do you) care/mind if I join you?" *too fast*.



In that case, do you mean "Care/Mind if I join you?" is not a familiar version of "Do you care/mind if I join you?" ?


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## Packard

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, do you mean "Care/Mind if I join you?" is not a familiar version of "Do you care/mind if I join you?" ?


 

I believe that, "*Care if I join you*" is the shortened form of "*Do you care if I join you*."


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## tomandjerryfan

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, do you mean "Care/Mind if I join you?" is not a familiar version of "Do you care/mind if I join you?" ?


 
It is by me. I've heard it lots of times! In casual conversation, at least in my neck of the woods, you're more likely to hear "Care/Mind if I join you?" than "Do you care/mind if I join you?"


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## nichec

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> 
> In that case, do you mean "Care/Mind if I join you?" is not a familiar version of "Do you care/mind if I join you?" ?


 
Actually I mean there are many usages that are used so much that people start to "get lazy" with it (not intentionally, maybe....)

For example, we say "Never heard of it" instead of "I have never heard of it", it started probably because someone said it too fast. And I think we have the same case here, but I can be very wrong, of course.


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## Brave Heart

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. 



nichec said:


> Actually I mean there are many usages that are used so much that people start to "get lazy" with it (not intentionally, maybe....)
> 
> For example, we say "Never heard of it" instead of "I have never heard of it", it started probably because someone said it too fast. And I think we have the same case here, but I can be very wrong, of course.



But, if you want to speak in a formal manner, you would not omit "Do you" or "I have", right?

If so, doesn't the omission signal a hint of informality?


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## GreenWhiteBlue

"Care if I join you?" sounds strange to me, while "Mind if I join you?" sounds natural.

The meanings of the two phrases are actually opposite to each other:

"[Do you] mind if I ...." means "would you object if I did this? Are you opposed to this?"

"[Would you] care to ..." means "would you prefer if this were done? Are you in favor of this?"

_Mind if I smoke?_ = "Would you object if I smoke? Would it bother you?"
_Care to dance? =_ "Would you prefer to dance? Would it please you?"


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## tomandjerryfan

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> "Care if I join you?" sounds strange to me, while "Mind if I join you?" sounds natural.
> 
> The meanings of the two phrases are actually opposite to each other:
> 
> "[Do you] mind if I ...." means "would you object if I did this? Are you opposed to this?"
> 
> "[Would you] care to ..." means "would you prefer if this were done? Are you in favor of this?"
> 
> _Mind if I smoke?_ = "Would you object if I smoke? Would it bother you?"
> _Care to dance? =_ "Would you prefer to dance? Would it please you?"



With all due respect, officer, I care to differ. 

My understanding is that "care" and "mind" often overlap in meaning. In this case, both would imply that it wouldn't bother the person if I joined him/her.


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## HistofEng

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> "Care if I join you?" sounds strange to me, while "Mind if I join you?" sounds natural.
> 
> The meanings of the two phrases are actually opposite to each other:
> 
> "[Do you] mind if I ...." means "would you object if I did this? Are you opposed to this?"
> 
> "[Would you] care to ..." means "would you prefer if this were done? Are you in favor of this?"
> 
> _Mind if I smoke?_ = "Would you object if I smoke? Would it bother you?"
> _Care to dance? =_ "Would you prefer to dance? Would it please you?"


 

It's not "care *to*" though.

[Do you] care/mind *if* I smoke?" sound essentially the same in meaning to me.

I hear both versions quite often (usually without the "Do you" though).


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## Brave Heart

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. 



GreenWhiteBlue said:


> "Care if I join you?" sounds strange to me, while "Mind if I join you?" sounds natural.



It seems the usage of "Care if I join you" is not common to all people. Maybe it depends on one's age, region, background, etc., right?

How about my question about formality/informality, then? 

If you intend to speak in a formal manner, you would not omit "Do you" and say "Mind if I join you", would you?

If so, can I assume the omission implies informality?


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## nichec

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> 
> But, if you want to speak in a formal manner, you would not omit "Do you" or "I have", right?
> 
> If so, doesn't the omission signal a hint of informality?


 
Yes, when I want to be formal, I would use my words carefully and speak clearly, I would go:

--Oh really? But I have never heard of it.
--I don't mean to be rude, but.....would you mind if I join you?


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## Brave Heart

Thanks nichec. I appreciate your help.


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## liliput

It must be an AE thing. "Care if I join you?" or even the full question "Do you care if I join you?" would sound extremely odd to me and I would expect the question to be answered with something along the lines of "No, I don't give a f**k!".
"Mind if I join you?" is polite but is more casual than the full "Do you mind if I join you?".
To invite someone you may say "Would you care to join us?".


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## nichec

liliput said:


> It must be an AE thing. "Care if I join you?" or even the full question "Do you care if I join you?" would sound extremely odd to me and I would expect the question to be answered with something along the lines of "No, I don't give a f**k!".
> "Mind if I join you?" is polite but is more casual than the full "Do you mind if I join you?".
> To invite someone you may say "Would you care to join us?".


 
Good advice, I will probably say that to someone who comes up to me somewhere next time 

Yes, even in AE, "Care if I join you?" is less acceptable than "Mind if I join you?" But unfortunately, we still get that a lot...........


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## Brave Heart

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. 



liliput said:


> It must be an AE thing. "Care if I join you?" or even the full question "Do you care if I join you?" would sound extremely odd to me and I would expect the question to be answered with something along the lines of "No, I don't give a f**k!".



As a Brit, when you say no to "Care if I join you?", do you mean "No, I don't mind" or "No, don't even think about it"?


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## liliput

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks guys. I appreciate your help.
> 
> 
> 
> As a Brit, when you say no to "Care if I join you?", do you mean "No, I don't mind" or "No, don't even think about it"?


 
As I said before, we'd be extremely unlikely to hear this phrase in Britain. When asked "Do you mind if I join you?" the most appropriate response is "No, not at all" or "No, please do" meaning that you don't mind at all. If you wanted to decline you might say "Actually, I do mind" or "I'm sorry that seat's taken." People who answer "yes" when they mean that they don't mind only invite more questions along the lines of "What do you mean?"


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## Brave Heart

Thanks liliput. I think I should've been more specific in my question.

I asked the above question because your example included "No, I don't give a f**k!", whose meaning I was not sure.

I guess the phrase basically means "I don't give it a sh*t". But I was not sure if that means "No, I don't mind at all" or "No, I'm not interested in your story" in the above context.


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## liliput

Brave Heart said:


> Thanks liliput. I think I should've been more specific in my question.
> 
> I asked the above question because your example included "No, I don't give a f**k!", whose meaning I was not sure.
> 
> I guess the phrase basically means "I don't give it a sh*t". But I was not sure if that means "No, I don't mind at all" or "No, I'm not interested in your story" in the above context.


 
You are correct in your understanding, and I intended it to mean that it is of no interest to me whatsoever whether you sit there or not. This response seems to fit the question.


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## Brave Heart

Thanks liliput. I appreciate your help.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

liliput said:


> It must be an AE thing. "Care if I join you?" or even the full question "Do you care if I join you?" would sound extremely odd to me and I would expect the question to be answered with something along the lines of "No, I don't give a f**k!".
> "Mind if I join you?" is polite but is more casual than the full "Do you mind if I join you?".
> To invite someone you may say "Would you care to join us?".


 
Exactly (and no, it is not an AE thing; I speak AE and this is how I would use "mind" and "care".)

When asking a question along thise lines, I would only use "mind", as in "mind if I ask you a question?", or "mind if I sit here?"  If I were asking with the word "care", I would only phrase it as "care to ...?", and not "care if ...?"

"Care if....?" is something else, and seems to call for an answer of the sort described above by liliput.  "I don't care" does not mean the same thing as "I don't mind"; there is quite a difference between "I wouldn't mind if you loved me" and "I wouldn't care if you loved me"!!!


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## tomandjerryfan

Although I agree that "Mind if" may be a bit more common than "care if," I still see nothing different or incorrect about the phrase. "I wouldn't mind" to me seems like just a fancier, more polite say of saying "I don't care." Both could imply that it doesn't bother you one way or the other.


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## konungursvia

Care if I join you is actually an error. It is a confusion of "Do you care to join me" and "May I join you" or "Mind if I join you."


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## Arrius

There appears to have been no British contribution so far, so I should like to point out that I would never say _(Do you) care if I join you?_ but always _(Do you) mind if I join you?._ It is the party whom you wish to join who ask _"(Would you) care to join us?"._


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## wendyxue

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> "Care if I join you?" sounds strange to me, while "Mind if I join you?" sounds natural.
> 
> The meanings of the two phrases are actually opposite to each other:
> 
> "[Do you] mind if I ...." means "would you object if I did this? Are you opposed to this?"
> 
> "[Would you] care to ..." means "would you prefer if this were done? Are you in favor of this?"
> 
> _Mind if I smoke?_ = "Would you object if I smoke? Would it bother you?"
> _Care to dance? =_ "Would you prefer to dance? Would it please you?"


 
Do you mean the answer to the question depends on if the word Mind is used or the word Care is used?

Let's say the lady would like the asker to join her, should she say "yes" if the question is "Care if I join you?" and "no" if the question is "Mind if I join you?"


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## GreenWhiteBlue

wendyxue said:


> Do you mean the answer to the question depends on if the word Mind is used or the word Care is used?
> 
> Let's say the lady would like the asker to join her, should she say "yes" if the question is "Care if I join you?" and "no" if the question is "Mind if I join you?"


 
I would agree with others above, and say that the construction "Care if [anything]" is an error; if would be "Mind if..." or "Care TO ....?"  When it is phrased this way, the answer would depend on the verb used.

If she were asked "Mind if we stop the meeting for an hour so that we can all get some lunch?", and she thought it was a good idea, she might answer "No, I don't mind at all -- let's do that."  To say "Yes, I mind" would be to reject the suggestion.

However, if she were asked "Care to stop the meeting for an hour so that we can all get some lunch?", she might answer "Yes, that is a good idea; let's do that."  To say "No, I don't care to" would be to reject the suggestion.


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## panjandrum

From my perspective:
"Care if I join you?" - completely alien, never heard it.
"Do you care if I join you?" - ditto.
"Mind if I join you?" - I assume I didn't hear ...
"Do you mind if I join you?" - OK, but sounds a very strange.
"May I join you?" - completely natural, normal, common, simple and clear.


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## idialegre

In informal speech,  questions are often formulated without the "Do you...", "Have you..." or "Are you.."

Got a minute?
See that building over there?
Understand?
Wanna dance?
Ready?

This is not done in formal speech.


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## Brave Heart

Thanks guys. I appreciate your help. 

At first, I didn't think my question would trigger such a lively exchange of views.   But your insights have deepened my understanding on this matter. Thanks.

I guess any language has some phrases that are not necessarily grammatically correct but still commonly used. (Correct me if I'm wrong.) So, my interest at present is not whether "Care if I join you?" is grammatically correct, but if it is used commonly and, if so, where and by whom (age group, etc.) it is used.

So far, it seems to be clear that "Care if I join you?" is not used in BE, but used at least by some people in Canada (Ontario) and the US (California).

Do you have any other input on this matter (i.e., where and by whom)?



idialegre said:


> In informal speech,  questions are often formulated without the "Do you...", "Have you..." or "Are you.."
> 
> Got a minute?
> See that building over there?
> Understand?
> Wanna dance?
> Ready?
> 
> This is not done in formal speech.



That is the answer to one of my two main questions. Thanks.


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## liliput

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Exactly (and *no, it is not an AE thing; I speak AE and this is how I would use "mind" and "care".*)
> 
> When asking a question along thise lines, I would only use "mind", as in "mind if I ask you a question?", or "mind if I sit here?" If I were asking with the word "care", I would only phrase it as "care to ...?", and not "care if ...?"
> 
> "Care if....?" is something else, and seems to call for an answer of the sort described above by liliput. "I don't care" does not mean the same thing as "I don't mind"; there is quite a difference between "I wouldn't mind if you loved me" and "I wouldn't care if you loved me"!!!


 
Perhaps "it's an AE thing" was not specific enough. What I meant was that, to my knowledge, it doesn't exist at all in BE, whereas it apparently exists in AE even if it's not used in all parts of the US.


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## Arrius

_Care_ is used in BE in sentences such as "(_Would you) care to dance?_ (rather formal and oldfashioned), "_Care for a cigarette?",_ both expressing an offer.  Also in "I wouldn't care if he drowned", "Would you care if I went off to live in Brazil?",with the meaning of being worried, the last expecting a negative answer. But NOT in "Care if I join you?" which is not an offer but a request for permission, when we would have to ask "_Mind _if etc.?".


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## tomandjerryfan

I agree that "Care if I join you" is not nearly as common as "Mind if I join you," but, to those who insist the former is incorrect or has a different meaning, I don't understand why. I have always understood "care" and "mind" to at times have similar meanings. For example, if Arrius had written "Would you mind if he drowned" instead of "Would you care if he drowned," to me the meaning would be the same.

Also, according to Merriam-Webster:



> Mind
> 
> intransitive verb
> 1 : to be attentive or wary
> 2 : to become concerned : CARE
> 3 : to pay obedient heed or attention





> Care
> 
> intransitive verb
> 1 a : to feel trouble or anxiety b : to feel interest or concern <care about freedom>
> 2 : to give care <care for the sick>
> 3 a : to have a liking, fondness, or taste <don't care for your attitude> b : to have an inclination <would you care for some pie>
> transitive verb
> 1 : to be concerned about or to the extent of <don't care what they say> <doesn't care a damn>
> 2 : WISH <if you care to go>


Also, another example where the meaning of care and mind would be the same in my opinion:

If someone asked me "May I borrow your pencil?" depending on how I'm feeling that day, I may respond either:

No, I don't mind if you borrow my pencil.
No, I don't care if you borrow my pencil.


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