# Important Spanish tenses (advanced level)



## evice-palice

Buenas noches!
Well, here is a conjugation of hablar (with an example for 1st person). And I would like to know which moods/tenses aren't necessery to know and use if I wanna become an advanced speaker. When I say speaker I mean it. I won't read classic books and even if I read them I would be able to study the complex verbs on my own, slowly. So the tenses I need are those one meets in Spanish anyone can speak, language we hear in TV, technical language, language of professional literature or newspaper... Most ideally, I'd like somebody to cross out those tenses which I can calmly forget. The "suspicious" tenses are in italic. If there are some differences depending on the location then I prefer the language used in Spain.
I appreciate any help.


*Indicative*
Present: hablo
Preterit: hablé
Imperfect: hablaba
Conditional: hablaría
Future: hablaré


*Subjunctive*
Present Subjunctive: hable
_Future Subjunctive: hablare_
Imperfect Subjunctive: hablara
_Imperfect Subjunctive 2: hablase_


*Perfect*
Present Perfect: he hablado
Past Perfect: había hablado
_Preterite Perfect: hube hablado_
_Future Perfect: habré hablado_
_Conditional Perfect: habría hablado_


*Perfect Subjunctive*
Present Perfect Subjunctive: haya hablado
_Past Perfect Subjunctive: hubiera hablado_
_Future Perfect Subjunctive: hubiere hablado_


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## Dangermoose

Of the "suspicious" ones, there are a few that I would recommend learning

You definitely don't need the future subjunctives: _hablare_ and _hubiere hablado_

I was taught the future perfect (_habré hablado_) and told that it is still in use, but I have never heard a native use it in casual speech (having said that, I have no idea what alternative way could be used to express it). So I'd await further advice.

I'd say it's unneccesary to know _hube hablado_, but after studying the conjugation of the preterite tense it will be easy to remember anyway. It is in use, but very rare.

The condicional perfect and past perfect subjunctive (_habría hablado_ and _hubiera hablado_) I would say are essential if you want to be able to fully express yourself.

It is worth being able to recognise the imperfect subjunctive 2 (_hablase_), because you will see it in written spanish, but you don't need to use it.


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## Cuddy

In fairness, if you want to become an "advanced speaker", you should learn them all 
 Additionally, I would suggest referring to them by their Spanish names, i.e. not present perfect but "pretérito perfecto", because otherwise translation adds a level of confusion.

That said, future subjunctives are (regrettably) falling into disuse. And in many places (at least in Argentina, where I am from), the "pretérito indefinido" or "pretérito perfecto simple" (hablé) form is almost always preferred to the "pretérito perfecto" proper form (he hablado) the latter being reserved almost exclusively to written/formal speech.

"Pretérito anterior" forms (hube hablado), are also rare, but more because of the rarity of the kind of tense situation it expresses, rather than because of deliberate disuse. 
Forms "hablara vs hablase" "hubiera vs hubiese hablado", are totally equivalent, one the former being used more in the Americas, the latter in peninsular Spanish.

The less educated the person, the less variety of tenses he will use, all down to the most basic enunciation tenses (present, pretérito imperfecto and pretérito indefinido) covering all situations for the least educated speakers. It is not unusual to hear in Argentina "Si sabía no venía" instead of "Si hubiera sabido no habría venido".


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## sal62

Hola: 
I`m agree with Cuddy
the pair hubiera/ habría ( pretérito pluscuamperfecto/ condicional perfecto) is very important  to form subordinates.


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## germanbz

_Imperfect Subjunctive 2: hablase

_I recommend you study this tense. First because as Damgermoore said you will see it in written spanish, but  not only written. Although subjunctive1 is mainly used, the second form is not uncommon. I as a native may say that I use both forms in a percentage 70% - 30%. With any change of nouance, sometimes I say one forme, sometimes another.

For example when I'm speaking and I have to use use in a speech much imperfect subjuctive forms, I use both, it sounds better.


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## James2000

I would learn them all.  The conjugations themselves (especially the seldom-used ones) are not that difficult - it's knowing when to use them that's the tricky part.


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## jsvillar

The only one you could avoid is Subjunctive Future. It is only used in legal terms because a legal document is valid normally only after signing it, in the future of the moment when you write it, and it talks about possibilities (if something will happen = Si algo ocurriere). On normal speech we use instead Subjunctive Imperfect (si algo ocurriera/ocurriese).

I could agree with Dangermoose, his native languaje is not Spanish, so he has had, more or less, the same problem you have. However, all those constructions are normal speech, so I would suggest studying all but using only those you are comfortable with.

So, as James says, why not learn just one more construction, future subjunctive, which is VERY easy? It is identical to the -ra imperfect subjunctives, but changing the last 'a' for an 'e'!


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## evice-palice

Great, thank you all for your help!
So, for me, there are 2 future subjunctives and preterite perfect to skip, good, that's more than I would expect 
About future perfect, I'm not sure how often can one meet it in English... I guess, people in general avoid complicated stuff as long as it's possible, people are lazy!  So is there any difference in using future perfect in Spanish and in English?

@James2000 & Cuddy: I don't think advanced speaker needs to know them all, it's still just a speaker who has plenty other stuff to show than just tense-constructions, e.g. vocab, phrases, good pronounciation, speed... That's why I asked here - to be able to skip things which could only slow me down in this way.

@jsvillar: didn't see your post, so preterite perfect is common in Spanish? I mean, how often do people use it?


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## lospazio

Dangermoose said:


> I was taught the future perfect (_habré hablado_) and told that it is still in use, but I have never heard a native use it in casual speech (having said that, I have no idea what alternative way could be used to express it). So I'd await further advice.



I have to disagree with you on the use of the indicative _futuro perfecto_. It's very usual in everyday's casual speech, used to express uncertainty or a probable past action. For example:

_¿Habrá llegado mi hermano? (I wonder if my brother has arrived).
No sé si ya habrán terminado las refacciones (I don't know if they have finished the renovations).
Me imagino que ya habrás comprado tu auto nuevo. ( I guess that you have already bought your new car).

_


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## _SantiWR_

evice-palice said:


> Buenas noches!
> Well, here is a conjugation of hablar (with an example for 1st person). And I would like to know which moods/tenses aren't necessery to know and use if I wanna become an advanced speaker. When I say speaker I mean it. I won't read classic books and even if I read them I would be able to study the complex verbs on my own, slowly. So the tenses I need are those one meets in Spanish anyone can speak, language we hear in TV, technical language, language of professional literature or newspaper... Most ideally, I'd like somebody to cross out those tenses which I can calmly forget. The "suspicious" tenses are in italic. If there are some differences depending on the location then I prefer the language used in Spain.
> I appreciate any help.
> 
> 
> *Indicative*
> Present: hablo
> Preterit: hablé
> Imperfect: hablaba
> Conditional: hablaría
> Future: hablaré
> 
> 
> *Subjunctive*
> Present Subjunctive: hable
> _Future Subjunctive: hablare_
> Imperfect Subjunctive: hablara
> _Imperfect Subjunctive 2: hablase_
> 
> 
> *Perfect*
> Present Perfect: he hablado
> Past Perfect: había hablado
> _Preterite Perfect: hube hablado_
> _Future Perfect: habré hablado_
> _Conditional Perfect: habría hablado_
> 
> 
> *Perfect Subjunctive*
> Present Perfect Subjunctive: haya hablado
> _Past Perfect Subjunctive: hubiera hablado_
> _Future Perfect Subjunctive: hubiere hablado_



You can leave out subjunctive futures, but the rest of them are indispensable. Regarding the past perfect (hube hablado), you won't hear it in normal speech, but it's profusely used in literature. All the others are used in everyday casual speech.


Santiago.


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## Duometri

_SantiWR_ said:


> You can leave out subjunctive futures, but the rest of them are indispensable. Regarding the past perfect (hube hablado), you won't hear it in normal speech, but it's profusely used in literature. All the others are used in everyday casual speech.
> 
> 
> Santiago.



I agree with Santiago. But you will need subjunctive futures if you want to read something about Spanish regulations, for it is profusely used in legal codes: _el que matare a otro..., el que tomare la cosa ajena..._

Regards.


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## L'Inconnu

Cuddy said:


> I would suggest referring to them by their Spanish names, i.e. not present perfect but "pretérito perfecto", because otherwise translation adds a level of confusion.


De acuerdo. El pretérito perfecto no es rigurosamente igual al present perfect. Compare las dos frases siguientes.

"I have lived in Paris for 10 years."
"Hace 10 años que vivo in Paris."




Cuddy said:


> That said, future subjunctives are (regrettably) falling into disuse.


¡Qué sorpresa! Aquellas formas ni siquiera son tratadas en mi gramática.




Cuddy said:


> And in many places (at least in Argentina, where I am from), the "pretérito indefinido" or "pretérito perfecto simple" (hablé) form is almost always preferred to the "pretérito perfecto" proper form (he hablado) the latter being reserved almost exclusively to written/formal speech.


Son noticías para mi. Irónicamente, los conceptos los más avanzados son fuera del alcance de la gramática. Pero, supongo que el pretérito perfecto se puede usar sin molestar muchas personas.




Cuddy said:


> "Pretérito anterior" forms (hube hablado), are also rare...


Es un estilo literario según mi gramática.


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## sal62

L´Inconnu:
Compara por favor tus ejemplos 
*Present Perfect:* "I have lived in Paris for 10 years". *Pretérito perfecto compuesto:* "Yo he vivido en París por 10 años"
"Hace 10 años que vivo in Paris." es* presente indicativo *(literally: there are 10 years that I live in Paris, or I live in Paris since 10 years ago)

*Pretérito perfecto simple* "yo viví en París por 10 años" (literally:  I lived in Paris for 10 years)
*Pretérito imperfecto* "yo vivía en París" you aren´t able to use "por 10 años" in this case is impossible.
Yours.


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## L'Inconnu

(1)"Yo he vivido en París por 10 años"
(2) "Hace 10 años que vivo in París."
(3) "I have lived in Paris for 10 years."

Si te comprendo, las tres frases son prácticamente iguales en significación, en cuyo caso el present perfect de inglés es prácticamente igual al pretérito perfecto de español. Claro, pero la primera frase, ¿se usa normalmente en conversación o es una forma literaria?


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## germanbz

L'Inconnu said:


> (1)"Yo he vivido en París por 10 años"
> (2) "Hace 10 años que vivo in París."
> (3) "I have lived in Paris for 10 years."
> 
> Si te comprendo, las tres frases son prácticamente iguales en significación, en cuyo caso el present perfect de inglés es prácticamente igual al pretérito perfecto de español. Claro, pero la primera frase, ¿se usa normalmente en conversación o es una forma literaria?



La frase número (1) y al margen de usos regionales, al menos en lo que respecta al español de España, además de no usarse, creo que sería incorrecto. De hecho ese "*por *diez años" en vez de "*durante* diez años" me da la impresión que es precisamente una influencia del inglés en algunas zonas del habla.

Sobre tu pregunta de si la primera opción se usa normalmente o sólo literariamente, te puedo asegurar que con el mencionado cambio de "durante" en vez de "por" se usa de una forma totalmente cotidiana, eso sí, has de tener en cuenta que en español se considera esa frase como una acción *finalizada*, en contraposición a la frase (2) cuya acción continúa en el presente.


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## sal62

En el lenguaje coloquial existe la tendencia en sudamérica a usar menos la forma compuesta que la simple, esto varía en cada zona e inclusive en el mismo país podes encontrar diferencias en la frecuencia de su uso. Para darte un ejemplo concreto: en mi propio país se usa mucho menos la forma compuesta en Buenos aires que en Santiago del Estero.
También es cierto que en algunas ocasiones solo podemos (los que viven en Buenos Aires) usar la forma compuesta. El lenguaje escrito es más homogéneo para todos los países de habla hispana, siendo además un recurso estilístico el usar una u otra forma para diferenciar el origen del personaje de una novela, por ejemplo.

Escribimos casi igual, pero usamos los verbos al hablar de una manera algo diferente 
"Yo he vivido por 10 años en París" es correctísimo, pero ten en cuenta has vivido allí hasta hace muy poco tiempo,
Hace 10 años que vivo en París (*y continúo viviendo en París*) es una forma en la cual, mi traducción literal al inglés me parece horrible como seguramente lo has comprobado. 
Nunca podría utilizar "yo vivía 10 años en París"
Una conversación en Buenos Aires como ejemplo:
a- yo *vivía* en París (pretérito imperfecto)
b- ¿y que *pasó*? (pretérito perfecto simple)
a- Me *tuve* (preteríto perfecto simple) que ir porque *era* (pretérito imperfecto) muy cara la vida.
Un placer y a tus órdenes. 
Creo que vivir no es el mejor ejemplo para entender este asunto, debido a su significado.
De acuerdo con "durante" en vez de "por"


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## jose-carlos

L'Inconnu said:


> (1)"Yo he vivido en París por 10 años"
> (2) "Hace 10 años que vivo in París."
> (3) "I have lived in Paris for 10 years."
> 
> Si te comprendo, las tres frases son prácticamente iguales en significación, en cuyo caso el present perfect de inglés es prácticamente igual al pretérito perfecto de español. Claro, pero la primera frase, ¿se usa normalmente en conversación o es una forma literaria?



I don't know very well, but I think the difference is: ¿Am I living now in Paris?-
1) He vivido en París 10 años... (now I don't live there)
2) Hace 10 años que vivo en Paris ... (I live in Paris yet)
3) I have been living in paris for 10 years.. (it is 1 or 2)???


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## L'Inconnu

1) He vivido en París 10 años... (now I don't live there)
2) Hace 10 años que vivo en Paris ... (I still live in Paris yet)
3) I have been living in paris for 10 years.. (I still live in Paris)


So, I was right the first time. The _present_ perfect in English is *NOT* the same as the _pretérito_ perfecto in Spanish.


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## jose-carlos

L'Inconnu said:


> 1) He vivido en París 10 años... (now I don't live there)
> 2) Hace 10 años que vivo en Paris ... (I still live in Paris yet)
> 3) I have been living in paris for 10 years.. (I still live in Paris)
> 
> 
> So, I was right the first time. The _present_ perfect in English is *NOT* the same as the _pretérito_ perfecto in Spanish.



Sorry, if I say "I have lived in Paris for 10 years" also I still live in Paris?


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## evice-palice

hey guys, I think you changed my topic here a bit. This was supposed to tell about importance of some Spanish tenses. Please, can't you just tell me more aboutPreterite Perfect (hube hablado)? Its use or its need...


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## jose-carlos

evice-palice said:


> hey guys, I think you changed my topic here a bit. This was supposed to tell about importance of some Spanish tenses. Please, can't you just tell me more aboutPreterite Perfect (hube hablado)? Its use or its need...



I agree with L'Inconnu in post #12 ... It is more for literature (even stories, but mainly in history books ... also other types). 
do you need it? It all depend on how deep you want your "advanced level". 
If you mean daily speaking ... it can be avoid.


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## L'Inconnu

jose-carlos said:


> "I have lived in Paris for 10 years" Do I still live in Paris?



Yes, you STILL live in Paris. Which is the point I was trying to make in the first place. I was trying to support what Cuddy was saying. 



Cuddy said:


> I would suggest referring to the various tenses by their Spanish names, i.e. not present perfect but "pretérito perfecto", because otherwise translation adds a level of confusion.



I'm trying to point out that the present perfect is NOT el pretérito perfecto. What is why you should follow Cuddy's advice and use the Spanish term.


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## L'Inconnu

evice-palice said:


> hey guys, I think you changed my topic here a bit. This was supposed to tell about importance of some Spanish tenses.



So to summarize what we've covered so far. You use MOST Spanish tenses, but you can discard a few. You can discard the pretérito anterior unless you write literature. And you can discard the futuro del subjuntivo y el futuro perfecto del subjuntivo, unless your a lawyer. Moreover, many native speakers construct sentences in a manner that is beyond the scope of the grammar book. 

Si alguno te diera un consejo, ¿lo aceptabas?


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## Cuddy

Thread derailed. Please close.


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## sal62

¿Hubo vida en Marte?
hubo un tiempo que fue hermoso (song for my death. Sui Generis)

Sin detenerme recordando el ayer. 
Lo que _*hubo sido*_, 
y lo que no _pudo_ ser. (song:El Amasijo De Un Gran Sueño. Almafuerte) passive voice Pretérito anterior (antepretérito)

Hubo mucha gente que no pudo ingresar al recital.
Una vez que _*hubo completado*_ la tarea, se _marchó_ sin decir adiós.

https://facultystaff.richmond.edu/~ahermida/verbos1.htm


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## L'Inconnu

L'Inconnu said:


> You can discard the pretérito anterior unless you write literature.



Or, you want a 'cool' sounding title for a song, a movie, or a TV show. The French do the same thing with their literary tenses, but they don't usually use them even _very_ formal conversation.


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## jsvillar

Use: Low
Need: Only to understand it if you ever hear it
Difficulty to learn: Very, very low. No, even lower. In fact you already know it, it is what you call Preterit of Haber + participle of Hablar. (please note that Dangermoose said more or less the same thing, and he is from the UK!)

Ok, perfect tenses (haber+participle) means that the action is finished. So, if you had been doing something for a span of time, you would use Imperfecto (hablaba). Refering to that, at a later moment, you would use the perfect form Pluscuamperfecto (había hablado).
The problem with Indefinido, also called Perfecto Simple (hablé) is that it already refers to a finished action, so you normally don't need to use it unless you need to stress a sequence of events,and many times that sequence is implied, so you can use two Indefinidos.
Example:
-Cuando terminé de montar el juguete, llamé a mi hijo
-Cuando hube terminado de montar el juguete, llamé a mi hijo
Both are identical, but the second one almost says: I finished assembling the toy, looked around, -yes, it was finished, so then I called my kid.

So maybe we Spanish are misunderstanding you. What you mean is that you don't want to loose a lot of time studying the rules, when to use it, when not to use it, etc. For that, I might agree, but you still have to know it exists, how to conjugate, and if you ever hear it, just do a direct translation into English and you will understand everything.

And to finish on a wicked note: *You are missing Imperative: ¡Habla (tú)!*  You need to study it, and it's not easy!


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## Istriano

It's important to learn the future subjunctive forms because they are still used in legalese. I've seen them in some medical documents too.
In colloquial speech, they're still vital in many proverbs.  And if you're at the advanced level, you should read some older literature too, you can find these forms in it.
If you know the past stem of the verb, you already know the future subjunctive too:_ estar ---> *estuvier*on--->*estuvier*e,_ it's extremely easy.
People think of future subjunctive, as if it were some rocket science, but it's not, you learn the endings in like 5 minutes. You only need to know that it's made from the past verbal stem, and not from the infinitive.


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## evice-palice

Super, thank you all guys, you helped me a lot!! 
Sorry for the imperative bug^^ I just thought it too obvious to mention 

EDIT 
@Istriano: I am not at the advanced level uff enough of explanations
@L'Inconnu: I understand, what you mean, but it's impossible to edit my first post anymore so I can't add the original names of the tenses. Sorry, I'm so slow
Never mind anyway, the differences are a matter of grammar, every learner meets it one day...


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