# Ortus?



## Tetina

Hi! I'm translating a book and inside it refers to the mythical creature "Ortus" which  is  conected  with  Phoenix. It would help me more if I knew what ortus means in general (if it means something).

Thanks

 P.S. And if by any chance you know something for the mythological  existence of Ortus I would appreciate  some information  on it.


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## Saoul

As far as I know the word "ortus" doens't mean anything in Italian.

The P.S. was deleted, since any discussion about myths, or pagan gods, or anything similar would go beyond the scope of this forum.


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## TimLA

Ortus seems to be of latin origin and I can find two meanings:

The first is "rising of the heavenly bodies"
and
"to spring from".

If I find anything the the myth, I'll PM you.


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## Parergon

Hope this defition from the Dictionary of Phrase and Fable may help. 

Ortus

“Ortus a quercu, non a salice.” Latin for “sprung from an oak, and not from a willow” —i.e. stubborn stuff; one that cannot bend to circumstances.
Source: Dictionary of Phrase and Fable, E. Cobham Brewer, 1894​


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## rocamadour

Tetina said:


> Hi! I'm translating a book and inside it refers to the mythical creature "Ortus" which is conected with Phoenix. It would help me more if i knew what ortus means in general (if it means something).
> 
> Thanks
> 
> P.S. And if by any chance you know something for the mythological existence of Ortus i would appreciate some information on it.


Hi Tetina, and welcome! 
In Italian we have the word *orto*, which comes from the Latin _hortu(m)_ and means "vegetable garden". On the other side *ortus* in latin is the past participle of the verb *orior* (= to rise, to begin);* ortus* as a noun can mean "rising", "beginning", "origin".
Ciao!


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## GavinW

Tetina: There seems to be something wrong with our or your understanding of ortus/Ortus in the context of Phoenix. Additionally, the fact that Phoenix was Apollo, god of the sun, leads one to suspect there may be a link with the supine form of the Latin verb "orior", in some way.

I'd post the whole sentence/context if I were you. But at this point, unless you are translating directly from Italian, this thread may be more suitable in the new Latin forum (?). Or one of the general forums which discuss culture (including mythology).

EDIOT: rocamadour: actually, I think it's hortus, not hortum. The way you spelled it made it look neuter instead of masculine. ;-)


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## Tetina

Thank you all, you were very helpful and you were right about my explaining too. I was looking for the Latin origin and I thought Italian forum would help. As for Phoenix I mean the bird reburn from its ashes and not Apollon, that's why I think the meanings of "rising"  and "spring from" go better.


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## rocamadour

GavinW said:


> EDIOT: rocamadour: actually, I think it's hortus, not hortum. The way you spelled it made it look neuter instead of masculine. ;-)


 


Ciao Gavin! 
Come hai visto ho messo la "m" tra parentesi perché ricostruendo le etimologie per le voci che derivano dal latino in genere si parte dal caso accusativo mettendo però l'ultima parte della desinenza tra parentesi. Puoi controllare consultando qualsiasi dizionario etimologico: cercando *città *troverai per esempio Lat. _civit__āte(m),_ cercando* piede* troverai Lat. pĕde(m), cercando *raggio* troverai Lat. _r__ădiu(m)._ E così via.
Mi dispiace se ho dato per scontata una cosa che invece avrei dovuto specificare. E chiedo scusa se ho eventualmente creato confusione in qualcuno.


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## ireney

Hello Tetina, I think this site will be of interest to you (for other words you may want to reasearch too  )


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## GavinW

rocamadour said:


> ... in genere si parte dal caso accusativo mettendo però l'ultima parte della desinenza tra parentesi.


 
Oops! mea(m) culpa(m)!! Sorry, I was showing my ignorance when it comes to etymological dictionaries. I was of course assuming you were trying to express the nominative of hortus. Thank you for the delicacy and tact with which you corrected me. ;-)


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## rocamadour

GavinW said:


> Oops! mea(m) culpa(m)!! Sorry, I was showing my ignorance when it comes to etymological dictionaries. I was of course assuming you were trying to express the nominative of hortus. Thank you for the delicacy and tact with which you corrected me. ;-)


No problem, Gavin! 
We're all here to help and to learn every day something new!


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