# We live in a society



## Zikta

Hi, how would you translate the meme phrase "we live in a society" to Chinese? I found 我们生活在一个社会中 on the internet, while my teacher (from Taiwan) suggests 我们生活在社会上. Is there any difference in meaning between these two versions?


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## gingerbread-mann

In my opinion, "一个社会" is an improper expression. From the perspective of Chinese logics, "社会（一定的经济基础和上层建筑构成的整体）" is a abstract concept like "entirety", and its single meaning is self-evident.

Compared with "我们生活在社会上（on）" , i think "我们生活在社会中（in）" is better, and it doesn't need to change the preposition. （"我们生活在社会(环境)中"）

However, I think both of answers are not natural expression. 
Maybe "我们的生活离不开社会". ? 
Need more context.


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## hx1997

Zikta said:


> the meme phrase "we live in a society"


Would you care to explain what this meme is and how it is used? Because it's not widely known here.

From what I can gather on the internet, this phrase is used to complain about the inequalities/imperfections of the reality we live in. Is this the case?


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## Lamb67

我们生活在社会上 is better and implies that one should be realistic rather than idealistic 🤩


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## Zikta

hx1997 said:


> From what I can gather on the internet, this phrase is used to complain about the unequalities/imperfections of the reality we live in. Is this the case?


Yes, that's exactly what it's about. It also implies that these flaws are inherent to an organised system and cannot be eliminated. It is used jokingly to complain about things that are unfair, sometimes even unrelated to the actual societal problems.


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## Zikta

Lamb67 said:


> 我们生活在社会上 is better and implies that one should be realistic rather than idealistic 🤩


Thank you! And which preposition do you think would fit better, 上 or 中? Does using one over the other change the meaning or are they both equally valid?


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## Lamb67

Agree with Post#2🤩


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## gingerbread-mann

Update:
I found an explaination from Urban Dictionary:

"We live in a society"
"An expression often found in memes and associated with the fictional character the Joker although he never actually said it. Basically, when you say “We live in a society,” you are implying that a society has flaws and inequality.

_Boy 1: Why is the line to the women’s bathroom twice as long as the line to the men’s room?
Boy 2: Because we live in a society._"

Then here is a comment "_we live in a society_" from the website Happymagtv:
"The meme is filed under the absurdist meme genre, a flavour of memes that, from the outside, are totally nonsensical unless you have a strong and oddly specific back catalogue of internet acuity."

Having searched Chinese memes or popular slangs in recent years, I think currently there is no Chinese meme about "society" equivalent to "_we live in a society_" or that which contains derogatory or neutral sense. (Maybe it is because the Chinese strictest censorship? )

Here is a brief case analysis of this meme translation:

Literal translation: 我们生活在社会中。(x)
It is quite confusing for Chinese due to the meme context.

Free translation: 毕竟这才是社会啊("毕竟，才"suggest:社会险恶 or 不公正)。(Better, This would be the answer  but this is a truth rather than a meme. The essence of meme has lost.)

localization/transcreation as a meme : 这社会不讲武德，我劝你耗子尾汁。
"不讲武德" and "耗子尾汁(it literally means "juice of mouse tail" but its pronunciation is similar to 好自为之. )" are said by trickster Ma Baoguo(马保国) who is boasting Chinese martial art "Tai Chi Chuan" (In real grapple, it works not well). Once, He failed the martial art showdown, here is his reply in a video clip(from wikiquote /马保国):

我*大意了*啊*(careless)*，没有*闪(dodge)*。
年轻人*不讲武德(not obey the doctrine of Chinese martial art)*。来，骗！来，*偷袭(sneak attack)*，我六十九岁的，老同志。这好吗？这不好。
我劝！这位，年轻人，*好自为之(behave yourself)*，好好反思。以后不要再犯这样的聪明，*小聪明(petty trick)*，啊。呃，武林，要以*和(harmony)*为贵，要讲武德，不要搞，窝里斗。谢谢朋友们！
*好自为之*："you think someone is wrong by insisting on doing something in a particular way, but that they will be affected by the bad consequences resulting from it, and you will not."(China Daily)

I guess that this can convey the meaning of flaws and inequality of society😅.  However, after  人民日报 criticized Ma's behavior for harming the dignity of Chinese martial art, nearly all of memes about Ma nearly vanished (censorship).

I ask one of my friend this question, and he give me an interesting answer:
"社会就是个五彩斑斓的染缸。(Society is a vat full of dye in various colors)"


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## azhong

A suggestion inspired by gingerbread-mann #8, simple and very idiomatic:

這就是人生啊！


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## skating-in-bc

Let XXX denote some form of hypocrisy or absurdity:
(1) (XXX because) we live in a society ==> (XXX 因為)社會洗腦我們要這樣活
(2) We live in a society (where XXX) ==> 我們活在這樣(XXX)的社會裡


gingerbread-mann said:


> _Boy 1: Why is the line to the women’s bathroom twice as long as the line to the men’s room?
> Boy 2: Because we live in a society._


男甲: 為什麼女廁總是大排長龍, 比男廁排的隊還長兩倍？
男乙: 因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活。

Russian conscript1: Why do we have to bring our own sleeping bags and first aid kits to the army?
Russian conscript2: Because we live in a society.  因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活.


azhong said:


> 這就是人生啊！


"這就是人生啊!" 聽起來像是要逆來順受, 接受社會的瑕疵, 然而原句是要質疑社會, 點破社會的瑕疵.


Zikta said:


> how would you translate the meme phrase "we live in a society" to Chinese?


*我們活在這樣*(荒謬)*的社會裡*
如此翻譯乃因原句其實是個 truncated form of "We live in a society where XXX (存在這麼荒謬的事)".


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## azhong

Inspired by #10 our Skater:
這是個什麼社會！


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## lindaones

I would translate it as "清醒的人最荒唐"。


Zikta said:


> Hi, how would you translate the meme phrase "we live in a society" to Chinese? I found 我们生活在一个社会中 on the internet, while my teacher (from Taiwan) suggests 我们生活在社会上. Is there any difference in meaning between these two versions?


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## lindaones

lindaones said:


> I would translate it as "清醒的人最荒唐"。


It's not a word-for-word translation. But when a person says "清醒的人最荒唐", he is implying pretty much the same as the untold part of the meme phrase "we live in a society", facing absurdities in life but unable to change anything.


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## SuperXW

First of all, what your teacher suggested: 我们生活在社会上 is definitely better and acceptable than 我们生活在一个社会中.
Because 一个 is unnecessary in Chinese unless we want to stress "one, not two or more".
上 and 中 are both fine to me.

For the other suggestions, if not afraid of making enemies, I'd be unsatisfied with all the above answers...Many of them are not "translations" at all.😹
上述各位的翻译，我认为使用局限性太大了……很多已经不是“翻译”了……😹
The principles of translation I advocated:
个人倡导的翻译原则：
1. be loyal to the original texts (not too much additional/reduction of information or even personal interpretations)
忠于原文（尽量不增减信息，特别是个人见解）；
2. be loyal to the original style (not to change slang/colloquial into formal/written/literary style, not to change declarative into rhetorical, not to stress or weaken the tone, etc.)
忠于原文风（保持口语/书面风格、句式、情态等）；
3. not using meme phrase/pop culture that only recognized by certain groups/generation, unless the original text was.
Only in this way, the translation can fit as many contexts as possible like the original one.
不使用只有部分人群/地区/时期适用的流行语（除非原文就有局限性）。
只有这样，翻译出来的语句才可能适用于大部分原文的语境。

Luckily, "society" in Chinese is also used in memes with a very similar meaning, thus it's possible to remain the literal translation of the word 社会, or 现实社会 "reality-society", both idiomatic.
这就是（现实）社会。
（现实）社会就这样啊。


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## skating-in-bc

SuperXW said:


> 个人倡导的翻译原则：
> 1. be loyal to the original texts...忠于原文


想提醒一下: 語用意思比字面意思更重要.  For example,
A: Thank you. 謝謝
B: You're welcome. 不客氣
陳述句 "You're welcome" (你是被歡迎的) 和 祈使句 "不客氣" 的句型及字面意思均風馬牛不相及.


SuperXW said:


> 3. not using meme phrase/pop culture that only recognized by certain groups/generation, unless the original text was.


想提醒一下: 樓主不是問 "We live in a society" 的一般意思, 而是問其作為 meme phrase 的語用意思.


SuperXW said:


> 这就是（现实）社会。
> （现实）社会就这样啊。


作為 meme phrase 的 "We live in a society", 不是你所翻出的意思.  譬如:




聰明孩子考砸的藉口: "因為社會要我們不要成為書呆子, 要我們不要出風頭, 要我們..." 若照你 "(现实)社会就这样啊" 的翻譯, 就不像是個逃避責任的藉口, 而像是自我安慰: "現實社會就有輸有贏, 勝敗乃兵家常事."  語用意思差了十萬八千里.


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## SuperXW

skating-in-bc said:


> 想提醒一下: 語用意思比字面意思更重要.  For example,
> A: Thank you. 謝謝
> B: You're welcome. 不客氣
> 陳述句 "You're welcome" (你是被歡迎的) 和 祈使句 "不客氣" 的句型及字面意思均風馬牛不相及.
> 
> 想提醒一下: 樓主不是問 "We live in a society" 的一般意思, 而是問其作為 meme phrase 的語用意思.
> 
> 作為 meme phrase 的 "We live in a society", 不是你所翻出的意思.  譬如:
> View attachment 77552
> 聰明孩子考砸的藉口: "因為社會要我們不要成為書呆子, 要我們不要出風頭, 要我們..." 若照你 "(现实)社会就这样啊" 的翻譯, 就不像是個逃避責任的藉口, 而像是自我安慰: "現實社會就有輸有贏, 勝敗乃兵家常事."  語用意思差了十萬八千里.


“忠于原文”的意思是尽量不增减原意，与之同等重要的是，在汉语中要通顺、地道。
所以不可能是逐词直译，只能尽量。
如果翻译完，意思差了十万八千里，肯定是错误翻译。

（顺便我还是想说，没必要扯其它的例子，如you're welcome，每个例子都和原题不一样，是另外的题目，越扯越多……）

We live in a society这个meme，我之前不懂，只是看了前面各位引用的解释，自以为懂了，做了一般翻译。
至于你引用的这张meme图，其实我到现在也是不太懂的（你的解释似乎和其它解释也不太一致吧？），可能我的翻译确实不能放这里吧？
但是换成你的翻译，同样看不懂：
聰明孩子考砸的藉口： (XXX 因為)社會洗腦我們要這樣活  我們活在這樣(荒謬)的社會裡


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## skating-in-bc

SuperXW said:


> 聰明孩子考砸的藉口： (XXX 因為)社會洗腦我們要這樣活  我們活在這樣(荒謬)的社會裡


聰明孩子考砸的藉口：因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活, 怎麼樣活? 不要考太好, 否則會遭人嫉妒, 沒人緣; 不要太用功, 否則會被稱為書呆子, 受欺負; 不要...(讀者自己 fill in the blank).  We live in a society that has bred us to...(fill in the blank)...

或者
聰明孩子考砸的藉口：因為我們活在這樣的社會裡, 什麼樣的社會? 一個考太好會沒人緣的社會, 一個書呆子受欺負的社會, 一個...(讀者自己 fill in the blank).

你可能沒注意到上圖中 "We live in a society..." 的 "...", 就是要讀者自己 fill in the blank. 意思是 "We live in a society where such-and-such (自己 fill in the blank) happens or that has bred us to do such-and-such."


SuperXW said:


> 你的解释似乎和其它解释也不太一致吧？


Wiktionary--We live in a society: A truncation of longer phrases of the form e.g. "we live in a society in which X", where X is typically some form of hypocrisy or absurdity.


SuperXW said:


> 你引用的这张meme图，其实我到现在也是不太懂的


圖上的意思很簡單, 就是聰明人怪社會, 不怪自己.  因為 "We live in a society" 這個熱門的 meme phrase 通常用來諷刺社會, 是社會真的有什麼不好, 而這裡卻指出它成為藉口, 人們推卸個人責任, 把責任推給社會. 這觀點與眾不同, 所以特别新鮮有趣.


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## SuperXW

skating-in-bc said:


> 聰明孩子考砸的藉口：因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活, 怎麼樣活? 不要考太好, 否則會遭人嫉妒, 沒人緣; 不要太用功, 否則會被稱為書呆子, 受欺負; 不要...(讀者自己 fill in the blank).  We live in a society that has bred us to...(fill in the blank)...
> 
> 或者
> 聰明孩子考砸的藉口：因為我們活在這樣的社會裡, 什麼樣的社會? 一個考太好會沒人緣的社會, 一個書呆子受欺負的社會, 一個...(讀者自己 fill in the blank).
> 
> 你可能沒注意到上圖中 "We live in a society..." 的 "...", 就是要讀者自己 fill in the blank. 意思是 "We live in a society where such-and-such (自己 fill in the blank) happens or that has bred us to do such-and-such."
> 
> Wiktionary--We live in a society: A truncation of longer phrases of the form e.g. "we live in a society in which X", where X is typically some form of hypocrisy or absurdity.
> 
> 圖上的意思很簡單, 就是聰明人怪社會, 不怪自己.  因為 "We live in a society" 這個熱門的 meme phrase 通常用來諷刺社會, 是社會真的有什麼不好, 而這裡卻指出它成為藉口, 人們推卸個人責任, 把責任推給社會. 這觀點與眾不同, 所以特别新鮮有趣.


原题和后面讨论的都没有省略号，wikitionary的定义我看了，你引的那段是“词源”，后面的定义是(Internet slang, sometimes humorous) the mores of society are irrational, hypocritical or otherwise flawed。和hx，zikta，ginger找出的定义都差不多，基本上就是说现实社会不完美。

无论怎样，对于你那张图，直接翻译成：
_聰明孩子考砸的藉口： 社會洗腦我們要這樣活  我們活在這樣(荒謬)的社會裡 _
都是看不懂的。

你后面针对这个图的解释，都是要说出来才能明白，而且只是部分可能性。根据字典释义，我个人理解成：“社会就是这样不完美，请提问者坦然接受本人考砸/胜败乃兵家常事/有人聪明有人笨之类的现实"好像也可以？
其实我一直不知道你翻的“洗脑”是哪来的……社会就这样不完美，怎么就“洗脑”让我们这样活了……？哪个词典也没写啊？


skating-in-bc said:


> Let XXX denote some form of hypocrisy or absurdity:
> (1) (XXX because) we live in a society ==> (XXX 因為)社會洗腦我們要這樣活
> (2) We live in a society (where XXX) ==> 我們活在這樣(XXX)的社會裡
> 
> 男甲: 為什麼女廁總是大排長龍, 比男廁排的隊還長兩倍？
> 男乙: 因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活。
> 
> Russian conscript1: Why do we have to bring our own sleeping bags and first aid kits to the army?
> Russian conscript2: Because we live in a society.  因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活.


我原以为是说要逆来顺受，你说不是；但按你翻译的“洗脑”，更加莫名其妙了……
谁被洗脑了？甲如果被洗脑了，怎么还会提出问题？


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## skating-in-bc

Society brainwashes us to perform in certain ways. For example, "社會洗腦我們要有錢有勢" ==> 語用功能是點出社會標榜的價值觀有多荒謬.  "洗腦" 暗示負面, 點出社會瑕疵的一面.


SuperXW said:


> 不知道你翻的“洗脑”是哪来的……


是從 "We live in a society that has bred us to do..." 來的 (直譯: 我們活在一個培養我們這樣做的社會裡). 也就是說, 我們活在的這個社會, 熏陶/制約/教育 我們要這樣做.  問題是 "熏陶/制約/教育" 是中性的, 沒點出社會瑕疵的一面, 所以我挑了負面的"洗腦".


SuperXW said:


> 你引的那段是“词源”，后面的定义是(Internet slang, sometimes humorous) the mores of society are irrational, hypocritical or otherwise flawed。和hx，zikta，ginger找出的定义都差不多，基本上就是说现实社会不完美。


其中哪一個說要 "逆來順受"?
這句話是要傳達: "社會習俗是非理性的、虛偽的或有其他缺陷的。" ==> 那裡說要 "逆來順受"? 語用上是要點出社會虛偽、荒謬或缺陷, 不是勸人逆來順受!!


SuperXW said:


> 我原以为是说要逆来顺受


那麼請舉一個這樣用的實例.


> “Trump 2020!”
> *10k insults and even death threats*
> 
> “I bought an entire house just by exploiting my body!"
> *10k likes and thousands of comments complimenting her courage*
> 
> We live in a society pic.twitter.com/PDPBoFRwZH


"特朗普2020！"
*10k侮辱甚至死亡威脅*

“我僅僅出賣肉體就買了一棟房子！”
*10k點贊, 數千評論讚美她的勇氣*

*我們活在這樣的社會裡* (多荒謬!)


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## SuperXW

skating-in-bc said:


> 其中哪一個說要 "逆來順受"?
> ……
> 那麼請舉一個這樣用的實例.


"逆来顺受"只是我根据各位引用的词典释义，结合"live with it"，推导出来的一种可能意思，当然不一定对，我只是问为什么不对……
_Boy 1: Why is the line to the women’s bathroom twice as long as the line to the men’s room?
Boy 2: Because we live in a society._
用azhong的“逆来顺受”的“这就是人生啊”中文听起来比较通顺，所以有三个人点赞。
也许大家都误会了，英文不是这意思，但至少中文逻辑通顺且常见：因为社会是这样，所以要接受现实。
如果误会了，希望看到一个比较顺的中文翻译。
你这里翻译为“因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活。”恕我无法理解。之前也问了，如果我们都被洗脑了，Boy 1怎么还会提问？
但你其实给出了两种翻译和解释，第二种是：我們活在這樣(荒謬)的社會裡。
其实第二种接近原文，好接受。
至于第一种里面的“洗脑”……


skating-in-bc said:


> 是從 "We live in a society that has bred us to do..." 來的……


我就是问 "has bred us to..." 是哪里来的啊……？没给来源啊！


skating-in-bc said:


> "特朗普2020！"
> *10k侮辱甚至死亡威脅*
> 
> “我僅僅出賣肉體就買了一棟房子！”
> *10k點贊, 數千評論讚美她的勇氣*
> 
> *我們活在這樣的社會裡* (多荒謬!)


从上述例子中，我能理解并认同：
我們活在這樣的社會裡 (多荒謬!)

如果：
我们活在社会上接受现实吧 
那么是否接近这个俗语？
我们活在社会上社会很荒谬、不讲道理，什么人都有林子大了什么鸟都有  如何？


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## skating-in-bc

SuperXW said:


> "逆来顺受"只是我根据各位引用的词典释义





hx1997 said:


> From what I can gather on the internet, this phrase *is used to complain* about the inequalities/imperfections of the reality we live in.





Zikta said:


> It also *implies *that these flaws are inherent to an organised system and cannot be eliminated. It *is used jokingly to complain *about things that are unfair, sometimes even unrelated to the actual societal problems.





gingerbread-mann said:


> I found an explaination from Urban Dictionary...Basically, when you say “We live in a society,” you are *implying *that a society has flaws and inequality.





> Reddit: What's up with all this "we live in a society" memes?
> Not that complicated. They took memes stating "we live in a society where ..." is a problem, added the joker (an anarchist) and said "we live in a society.", *insinuating *that is the problem.


*語用功能*: 是用來諷刺或 "complain" 抱怨 (社會缺失), 不是用來勸人(接受現實); 是用來 "imply/insinuate" 暗示(社會缺失), 不是用來挑明(社會現實). 所以, 我們提供的翻譯, 須靠言下之意來暗示、諷刺(社會的瑕疵), 才能翻出該句的原味.  讓我舉一個幽默(jokingly)諷刺的例子:

標題: "We live in a society" (我們活在這樣的社會裡)





skating-in-bc said:


> *我們活在這樣的社會裡* (多荒謬!)





skating-in-bc said:


> *我們活在這樣*(荒謬)*的社會裡*


"我們活在這樣的社會裡" 是我的翻譯建議. "這社會多荒謬" 是言下之意.


> Vanityfair: Jared Leto's Joker Actually Says “We Live In A Society” in Zack Snyder's Justice League
> "We Live In A Society" has since grown into something of a catch-all meme for many things, particularly when pointing out that one thing is more popular than another thing.


讓我舉個例子:



We live in a society ("我們活在這樣的社會裡"), 什麼樣的社會? 一個外表可愛就贏得眾人讚賞關注, 醜陋就沒人理睬的社會裡.


SuperXW said:


> 你其实给出了两种翻译和解释


我在 post#10 先指出該句常用於兩種狀況, 並解釋其意. 最後, 我回到樓主的問題 "how would you translate the meme phrase "we live in a society" to Chinese?", 我只給了一個翻譯建議: *我們活在這樣*(荒謬)*的社會裡*. ==> "荒謬" 是完整語境下不用說就明白的言下之意.


SuperXW said:


> 被洗脑了，Boy 1怎么还会提问？


Boy 1: 為什麽俄國身為世界武力第二強國卻打不贏烏克蘭?
Boy 2: 因為你被洗腦了, 俄國其實不是第二強國. ==> 正因被洗腦了, Boy 1 才會問那個問題.
同理,
Boy 1: 為什麽女廁總是大排長龍？
Boy 2: 因為社會對我們洗腦, 要我們對女性儀容有更多要求, 所以女孩上個廁所更囉嗦, 補妝擦口紅什麼的, 花了個老半天. ==> 正因被社會洗腦了, Boy 1 才不知那怪象 (i.e., 女廁總是大排長龍) 的背後原因.


> Reddit: We live in a society
> SeeShark: Can someone please explain the "we live in a society" meme to me?
> etrnloptimist: Many "deep" thoughts are rebelling against the perceived "tyranny" of a normal, middle class life. You are a slave because you go to school and can't even think about not going. *You are trapped and you don't even know it.* Only those who don't go to school are free, man. Even if that means horrible things for you. You're free. "we live in a society" is a pithy summary of such "attacks" on modern life. It is said *ironically*.


"Ironically" ==> *語用功能*是諷刺, 不是勸人或自我安慰.
"You are trapped and you don't even know it" ==> 被社會制約洗腦了.


> Quora: What is the meaning of the phrase “we live in a society”?
> Luke Miller: I think the phrase can be interpreted in many different ways, but one interpretation I like to think it references is *Interpellation*, a concept explored by French philosopher Louis Althusser, in which people are born and “interpellated” or enmeshed into a society regardless of whether they want to or not. Of course a newborn is going to have no concept of society, but by the time humans are able to interpret the relationships between themselves, their family and friends, their community, and their government, that human is so *conditioned *by said society that it’s difficult to think outside of it.


"_Interpellation_" (the process by which we internalize a society's values) 以及 "_conditioning_" (the process of training or accustoming a person to behave in a certain way or to accept certain circumstances) 就是我所說的被熏陶/制約/教育/洗腦 (bred to do/be a certain thing/way).


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## SuperXW

skating-in-bc said:


> *語用功能*:
> Boy 1: 為什麽俄國身為世界武力第二強國卻打不贏烏克蘭?
> Boy 2: 因為你被洗腦了, 俄國其實不是第二強國. ==> 正因被洗腦了, Boy 1 才會問那個問題.
> 同理,
> Boy 1: 為什麽女廁總是大排長龍？
> Boy 2: 因為社會對我們洗腦, 要我們對女性儀容有更多要求, 所以女孩上個廁所更囉嗦, 補妝擦口紅什麼的, 花了個老半天. ==> 正因被社會洗腦了, Boy 1 才不知那怪象 (i.e., 女廁總是大排長龍) 的背後原因.
> 
> "Ironically" ==> *語用功能*是諷刺, 不是勸人或自我安慰.
> "You are trapped and you don't even know it" ==> 被社會制約洗腦了.
> 
> "_Interpellation_" (the process by which we internalize a society's values) 以及 "_conditioning_" (the process of training or accustoming a person to behave in a certain way or to accept certain circumstances) 就是我所說的被熏陶/制約/教育/洗腦 (bred to do/be a certain thing/way).


如我上一条所说，"我們活在這樣(荒謬)的社會裡"基本是直译，你加了“荒谬”更好理解，你的解释我可以接受。
我剩下的纠结点主要在“洗脑”。
确实越解释越听不懂：你一开始说的“社会洗脑我们”，现在又说“你被洗脑”，那“我”没被洗脑吗？否则“我”怎么知道实情？
不知道你对“洗脑”的理解是不是跟我不同。*“被洗脑”的人，既不会提出相关问题，也不会自己说自己被洗脑了，更不可能知道“实际上的背后原因”。*
只能说这个翻译我肯定是不能接受了。

你引用的英文段落，恰恰说明是个人理解和深入讨论，并不代表只有这一种理解：the phrase can be interpreted in many different ways, but *one interpretation I like to think* it references is Interpellation。
英文段落说的可能是有道理的，没仔细看，但需要这一大堆话才行，而非直接一句“因為社會洗腦我們要這樣活。”这个用词逻辑有点问题，导致汉语人士很难理解。

另外，
我没有学过“语用功能”这个概念，所以不敢多揣测或讨论这个词……
能不能每次不要都扯其它的句子啊……你又举了一个俄国的新例子……


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## skating-in-bc

> Quora: What is the meaning of the phrase “we live in a society”?
> Karl Florida: It’s often used in an *ironic *context, and in those cases, is often *used to make fun of people *who think that they are being “*woke*” about something that is fairly obvious to most people.





SuperXW said:


> （现实）社会就这样啊。


很多英語 sources 都說 "We live in a society" 常用來諷刺 (i.e, "used in an ironic context"). 諷刺的對象可能是社會, 也可能是人 (i.e, 嘲笑人 "to make fun of people").

_Boy 1: Why is the line to the women’s bathroom twice as long as the line to the men’s room? ==> _突然察覺 (i.e., "*woke*")到社會怪象.
_Boy 2: Because we live in a society. ==> _(1) 諷刺人 (e.g., 社會就這麼荒謬, 你今天才察覺到嗎?)", (2) 諷刺社會, (3)...

"社會就這樣啊!" ==> 行! 但言下之意是嘲笑人後知後覺, 不是要人 live with it (接受現實, 逆來順受).  Boy 1 若是女的, 女廁大排長龍, 要他逆來順受, 或許還有些道理, 只可惜他是男兒身 (不論他是否有女兒心).


SuperXW said:


> 你引用的英文段落，恰恰说明是个人理解和深入讨论，并不代表只有这一种理解。


"不只一種理解" 不等於 "愛怎麼理解就怎麼理解", 還是得看語境.


SuperXW said:


> "逆来顺受"只是我根据各位引用的词典释义，结合"live with it"


其實, 我倒想到了一個情境:
A: 這個詮釋為什麼不對?
B: 因為 we live in a society (where linguistic conventions are shared), 你就接受現實, live with it 吧!  (開玩笑)


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## SuperXW

skating-in-bc said:


> "社會就這樣啊!" ==> 行! 但言下之意是嘲笑人後知後覺, 不是要人 live with it (接受現實, 逆來順受).  Boy 1 若是女的, 女廁大排長龍, 要他逆來順受, 或許還有些道理, 只可惜他是男兒身 (不論他是否有女兒心).
> 
> "不只一種理解" 不等於 "愛怎麼理解就怎麼理解", 還是得看語境.


你上面说的，现在我可以理解。
我一直都说自己不懂这句，从没有说我的翻译是对的，只是请问为什么不对。
只是希望你明白指出别人为什么会误解：
汉语“接受现实/逆来顺受”，并非需要女儿身。提出问题说明对社会不公存有质疑，只要接受现实不完美，不再问为什么，就可算是了。


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