# Hindi/Urdu and Punjabi: grinding stone or mortar and pestle



## teaboy

What are the most common terms for the kitchen-type of flat grinding stone and for the cylindrical pestle used with it?


----------



## Faylasoof

The kitchen grinding stone = _sil_ سِل , and the cylindrical pestle = _baTTaa_ بَٹَّا


----------



## teaboy

Faylasoof said:


> The kitchen grinding stone = _sil_ سِل , and the cylindrical pestle = _baTTaa_ بَٹَّا



That's it!  I knew I knew it!  (I just couldn't find where I'd filed it in my brain...)


----------



## Faylasoof

I'm sure you knew it! 

I note that you have entitled the thread *"grinding stone or mortar & pestle". 

*So I'd better give you the rest, though I'm sure you know these too:

  ok-hlii اوکْھلی = mortar (usually large that is fixed in the ground) 

haawan ہاوَن = mortar

dastah  دستہ = baTTaa بَٹَّا = pestle


----------



## teaboy

Those are all new to me!


----------



## BP.

mortar and pestle = _haawan dasta_

_sil baTTaa_ is of a different construction. _sil_ simply means a slab or tile.


----------



## Illuminatus

Faylasoof said:


> ok-hlii اوکْھلی = mortar (usually large that is fixed in the ground)




Also the relevant proverb: _Jab okhli mei.n sir de diya to moosal se kya darna._


----------



## panjabigator

Has anyone heard <ku.ḍī soṭā> (کنڈی سوٹا) for mortar and pestle in Panjabi?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

In the Punjabi I hear around me it is actually *kunDii - DanDaa*.

*SooTaa* sounds like a stick, *sooTii* is the long multi-usage bamboo stick that everyone keeps in their house.

*SooTaa* is also the slang for cigarette.

All these words have many different meanings and uses and I have noted only of few of them


----------



## BP.

Is there in Punjabi a word resembling _langra2ii_? Hindko and Pashto both use this.


----------



## Faylasoof

Illuminatus said:


> Also the relevant proverb: _Jab okhli mei.n sir de diya to moosal se kya darna.
> _


  Good proverb Illumin! Haven't heard it much lately and I bet many in general haven't heard of _moosal _either! Will make a nice new thread!

Even  _okhlii_ اوکْھلی is hardly heard these days. Never used in our house! I mean the actual "appliance"!  
Mostly we had use of _haawan-dastah_ or _si__l-batta_ for grinding / crushing/ pulverising before electrical appliances took over.


----------



## akak

I always thought it was _haaman dasta_! - We used that for the larger mortar and pestles, and _kharal_ for the smaller boat-shaped marble/stone mortar. I still use one! Much better than a garlic press.


----------



## bakshink

okhlii and moosal I think are used when they are made of metal. They are also known as hamaam-dastaa.
In Punjabi they are known as daurii-DaNDaa or kuNDii-soTaa. soTaa is from soTii which means stick in Punjabi. daurii is a trough made of stone.
As BP has mentioned sil means slab of stone and baTaa means a piece of stone( in Punjabi it is vaTaa). This word is also used for weights for measurement.


----------



## Faylasoof

akak said:


> I always thought it was _haaman dasta_! - We used that for the larger mortar and pestles, and _kharal_ for the smaller boat-shaped marble/stone mortar. I still use one! Much better than a garlic press.


 Actually, it is with a <w> and not an <m>:

Pahlavi _*hawan*_ -> New Persian _*haawan*_ -> Urdu _*haawan*_ = mortar 
Used by many even now. But _oklhlii_ not so much. Well at least not that much in urban areas I assume.


----------



## panjabigator

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Is there in Punjabi a word resembling _langra2ii_? Hindko and Pashto both use this.



What does this mean in Pashto? لنگرای؟


----------



## BP.

That word I don't know. I mentioned لنگرئی.

Thanks.


----------



## panjabigator

Ah, I'm poor with transliteration. And no, I don't know this word in Punjabi. I'll keep my eyes peeled for it in Pashto.


----------



## Qureshpor

I think we have essentially three (four if we bring in the Punjabi language) pairs of utensils for grinding/crushing etc

1) sil* (stone slab) + baTTaa** (literally a piece of stone)

This pair would be used for small scale work.

* siine par sil rakhnaa (endure patiently)

** baTTaa lagnaa (be stigmatised)

2) haavan+ dasta

Here the "haavan" is a large(r) implement and it is a container.

3) okhlii+muusal

Again, okhlii is a large container usually embedded in the ground. The "muusal" is a relatively hefty and heavy "threshing pestle". I would suggest that okhlii/muusal combination would ne more for grain perhaps than anything else.

Coming to Punjabi...

"laNgrii" to my knowledge is made of stone. It is used with a "soTaa" to grind spices, break up/grind garlic, onions etc.

I have come across another word "chaTTuu" which is really a Punjabi equivalent of okhlii. The "soTaa" here is even bigger and heavier and is used for grinding grain.

We are living in an age where most if not all of these words will be confined to the dictionaries. Alas, the story is the same for a great many more words which have become extinct!


----------



## greatbear

Yeah, "moosal" is a big one, but then for a small pestle, the word "moosli" is used; that is what at least what I've always called the small pestle I use for grinding condiments as - the whole combination being called in that case as "kharal".


----------



## Sheikh_14

Cilquiestsuens said:


> *SooTaa* is also the slang for cigarette.



Don't you mean SuuTaa and thus by extension SuuTaa lenaa, Marnaa for to smoke and take a drag (the former siding with drag and the latter just a generic smoke)? I guess its merely a generic alternative to a packet of smokes, neither can be seen as merely slang they are part and parcel of particular dialects.


----------



## Qureshpor

^The word is soTaa and it has nothing to do with smoking.


----------



## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> ^The word is soTaa and it has nothing to do with smoking.



Pardon me, but are you suggesting that the word SuuTaa doesn't exist or that the word SoTaa has nothing to do with cigs as mentioned in post 9. In other words where exactly does your obejection stand? Another implication could also be that SuuTaa has no relation to SoTaa but this isn't entirely clear in the previous post.


----------



## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> Pardon me, but are you suggesting that the word SuuTaa doesn't exist or that the word SoTaa has nothing to do with cigs as mentioned in post 9. In other words where exactly does your obejection stand? Another implication could also be that SuuTaa has no relation to SoTaa but this isn't entirely clear in the previous post.


No, I am not suggesting this. soTaa is the large stick (in Punjabi). suuTaa is a drag(kash in Urdu).

H سونٿا सोंटा_soṅṭā [Prk. सुंडओ; prob. S. शुण्ड+कः; but cf. sāṅṭā], s.m. A staff, club, cudgel, truncheon, mace; a pestle:—soṅṭe-bardār, s.m. Staff-bearer, mace-bearer; one who, in the retinue of a great personage, bears a short curved club (generally covered with silver):—soṅṭe paṛnā (-par), 'Sticks to fall (on)'; to be beaten with clubs:—soṅṭā-rāʼe, s.m. lit. 'King of clubs,' a thick-set, sturdy fellow; a stalwart, strapping man:—soṅṭe-wālā, s.m.=soṅṭe-bardār, q.v._


----------



## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> No, I am not suggesting this. soTaa is the large stick (in Punjabi). suuTaa is a drag(kash in Urdu).
> 
> H سونٿا सोंटा_soṅṭā [Prk. सुंडओ; prob. S. शुण्ड+कः; but cf. sāṅṭā], s.m. A staff, club, cudgel, truncheon, mace; a pestle:—soṅṭe-bardār, s.m. Staff-bearer, mace-bearer; one who, in the retinue of a great personage, bears a short curved club (generally covered with silver):—soṅṭe paṛnā (-par), 'Sticks to fall (on)'; to be beaten with clubs:—soṅṭā-rāʼe, s.m. lit. 'King of clubs,' a thick-set, sturdy fellow; a stalwart, strapping man:—soṅṭe-wālā, s.m.=soṅṭe-bardār, q.v._



The clarification does justice to your previous post. Cliqo had out of an honest mistake, muddled the two. *Btw is SooTa pronounced with a nuun in Urdu? I have only ever heard SooTa in both, perhaps the nuun is silent. Secondly, is SuuTa by extension used for the article from which we take a drag which post 9 is suggesting or its merely a synonym for kash/drag? Your contributions have been most helpful.*


----------

