# Swedish: Pronunciation of ä in "välkommen"



## gvergara

HI:

I've paid close attention to the pronunciation of the word _välkommen_, and it seems to me that I heard a long _ä_. Does the "vowel length rule" (vowel + consonant + consonant= short vowel) only apply when both consonants are part of the same syllable? Thanks in advance

Gonzalo


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## hanne

At least it doesn't apply when both consonants don't belong to the word. Välkommen is a compound väl+kommen, so there's only one consonant that "counts" after the ä.


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## cocuyo

The rule is not hewn in stone, and there are dialects/speakers that indeed pronounce that word with the 'short' sound and a different accent. But as a general rule, in a composed word, the consonant is not regarded as double when the second one belongs to the other word.


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## Renaissance man

I don't get it. Is there a rule saying that a vowel followed by two consonants is always short? That's simply not applicable to spoken Swedish...

However, if there is a _double_ consonant (two of the same) afterwards, that will more or less always make the preceding vowel short.


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## AutumnOwl

I agree with Renaissance man, there are no rule that a vowel followed by two consonants are always short in the Swedish language, it's only true for double consonants and some consonant combinations. As I recall it's words with -ng, -sk, -st, -rt, -rs (if it's a part of the word and not a genitive -s). With other combinations the vowel is a long one. This is perhaps not true in all dialects but I think most people would pronounce the vowel short in words with these combinations. Anyone who have some more combinations when the vowel is short?


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## Dan2

AutumnOwl said:


> As I recall it's words with -ng, -sk, -st, -rt, -rs (if it's a part of the word and not a genitive -s). With other combinations the vowel is a long one.


How about...
-rm? (_arm, varm_)
-nd? (_hund_)
-ck? (_tack_)
-rg? (_varg_)

I'm just learning, so forgive me if I'm misunderstanding.


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## Renaissance man

some exceptions:
-rt_ fart_, _bart_ 
-st_ blåst, löst  _

...but the rest of the aforementioned combinations seem to follow short vowels only. At least if the rule applies to letters within the same syllable. However, the list of long vowels before _any _combination of two consonants is virtually endless: _barn, torn, hård, börd, bard, halt, kalt, banalt, horn, korn, _etc_._

By the way, _välkommen _is only one word, and can hardly be regarded as a compound.


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## cocuyo

Renaissance man said:


> some exceptions:
> By the way, _välkommen _is only one word, and can hardly be regarded as a compound.


However, I regard it as a compound in the same way as _hemkommen, b__ortkommen_,  as well as scores of other words that got a similar prefix, one that is not only a prefix, but a proper word.

It may also be noted that _"halt"_ is a word that has a different meaning depending on how the vowel is pronounced, and there are more examples of words that change meaning with pronunciation or accent.


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## Ben Jamin

Renaissance man said:


> some exceptions:
> -rt_ fart_, _bart_
> -st_ blåst, löst _
> 
> ...but the rest of the aforementioned combinations seem to follow short vowels only. At least if the rule applies to letters within the same syllable. However, the list of long vowels before _any _combination of two consonants is virtually endless: _barn, torn, hård, börd, bard, halt, kalt, banalt, horn, korn, _etc_._
> 
> By the way, _välkommen _is only one word, and can hardly be regarded as a compound.


 Your list might be very long, but you only list syllables with the first consonant being an 'r' or 'l'.


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## Tjahzi

Since it seems this thread is dedicated solely to the question of:


gvergara said:


> HI:
> Does the "vowel length rule" (vowel + consonant + consonant= short vowel) only apply when both consonants are part of the same syllable?


you are more than welcome to discuss vowel length and how to reflect it in writing in the separate thread I just created for that very purpose.

As for the actual question asked by Gonzalo, I'm afraid the answer is that there is no consistent rule that explains this matter. _Välkommen_ is pronounced ['vɛːlkɔmːɛn] but could just as well have been pronounced [vɛl'kɔmːɛn].


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## gvergara

Thanks a lot for your help, guys.


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