# Persian/Russian Spas- (thanks)



## CyrusSH

It seems there is no relation between them, is it true?


----------



## Ben Jamin

The Russian 'thank you' is a contraction of  "spasi bog [tebya]" (may God save [you])".
I don't know if "spasit' has any cognates in Persian.


----------



## CyrusSH

Persian _spas_ seems to be from proto-IE _*spek-_ (to observe), is the Russian word from the same origin? observe -> watch -> guard -> save


----------



## Ben Jamin

CyrusSH said:


> Persian _spas_ seems to be from proto-IE _*spek-_ (to observe), is the Russian word from the same origin? observe -> watch -> guard -> save


I have no access to a Russian etymological dictionary, so I can't answer this question.


----------



## ahvalj

_S-_ is the prefix: the Old Church Slavonic form is _съ-пас-и/sъ-pas-i;_ the simple verb is _пас-ти/pas-ti_ "to pasture" (originally also "to protect"), coming from _*pehₐ-skʲ-,_ cp. Latin _pāsc-ere _— Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- - Wiktionary.

*P. S.* Wiktionary rightfully suggests that the Slavic form may also go back to an _s_-Present, like in Hittite — actually, on the Slavic ground it is impossible to distinguish the outcomes of *_pehₐ-skʲ- _and *_pehₐ-s- _(Lithuanian would have had _**pošti _for the former and_ **posti_ for the latter, but this verb is unattested there).


----------



## fdb

ahvalj said:


> _S-_ is the prefix: the Old Church Slavonic form is _съ-пас-и/sъ-pas-i;_ the simple verb is _пас-ти/pas-ti_ "to pasture" (originally also "to protect"), coming from _*pehₐ-skʲ-,_ cp. Latin _pāsc-ere _— Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/peh₂- - Wiktionary.



....Whereas Iranian spas- : spās- “to serve, to look after” is IE *speḱ-, as in “spectator”, German spähen etc.


----------



## ahvalj

Just for fun: since all morphemes in _spasibo < sъpasi bogъ_ are Indo-European, the hypothetical Old Iranic counterpart would have looked like _**hampāsait bagas_ (Optative Singular 3 + Nominative Singular).


----------



## fdb

ahvalj said:


> Just for fun: since all morphemes in _spasibo < sъpasi bogъ_ are Indo-European, the hypothetical Old Iranic counterpart would have looked like _**hampāsait bagas_ (Optative Singular 3 + Nominative Singular).



I would expect *-pisait (inchoative *sḱe > sa requires zero-grade stem in Indo-Iranian).


----------



## ahvalj

Or _**-pisait_?


----------



## fdb

Yes, I have edited it. I suppose *psait (with *H > zero) is also possible.


----------



## CyrusSH

In Persian, does _spas_ relate to _pas_ (respect, protect, look after, inspect) or not?  We have also _s-_ suffix: پیشوند - ویکی‌پدیا، دانشنامهٔ آزاد (like in the words سگالیدن , ستوه ...) which has a similar meaning to English/Latin _ex-_ suffix, compare to _exalt_.


----------



## fdb

Persian pās is from pāϑra-, root pā-, not from spās-.


----------



## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> Persian pās is from pāϑra-, root pā-, not from spās-.



The meaning of "thanks, gratitude" for _spas-_ just exist in Persian and Kurdish, if we want to trace semantic developments, I think the original word could be _pa-_ (protect) and _pas_ (respect), not Avestan _spas-_ (spy).


----------



## fdb

But that way you will not be able to explain the first s.


----------



## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> But that way you will not be able to explain the first s.



As I mentioned in my previous post there is also _s-_ prefix in Persian, like _stuh_ from Old-Iranian _us-tavah_.

In the meaning of "gratitude/appreciation", it can be said _pas_ and _spas_ are synonyms.

"به پاس تلاش شما ..."
"جهت سپاس از تلاش شما ..."


----------



## fdb

The verb spās- occurs many times in the Avesta. /s/ cannot be a prefix. It is part of the root.


----------



## CyrusSH

fdb said:


> The verb spās- occurs many times in the Avesta. /s/ cannot be a prefix. It is part of the root.



With which meaning? Avestan and Persian are two different languages.


----------



## CyrusSH

I should add that in Persian there is the word spazgi which means "gossip, spying" which can be related to Avestan _spas-_ (spy).


----------

