# Written communication as an equalizer?



## lainyn

Hello Everyone,

I just had a thought today, that I'd like to discuss. Have you noticed how difficult it is to tell how old everyone one is on WordReference Forums (or any other for that matter). I am constantly amazed at how cool "old people" are, from around the globe. I won't name names, but none of the foreros here seem to be old fuddy-duddies or anything. I hope that the older foreros are finding the same thing to be true with us younger ones. Granted, not everyone posts his or her age, but I think it's a good thing to do, because it can help people determine which age group to use certain vocabulary with, etc. Anyways, the point, from a macroscopic view, is to find out how many of you find written communication to be the greatest equalizer of age/race? It erases accents, and no one can hear how old you are. I think this is great because people become more willing to listen when they are are allowed to "see" your opinion without the potentially influential factors such as gender, age, background, geekiness, attractiveness etc. 

I would like this to be discussed, as well as the rather discomfiting question of "If all the foreros were seated in a room together, would you feel more uncomfortable at long last knowing what everyone looks like, how old they are, and what colour their skin is"? 

Honesty is, of course, highly important, otherwise the thread will be useless.

Thanks everybody! I would translate this to French and Spanish, but I'm afraid I'd make a botch job of it.

~Lainyn


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## Benjy

i have kind of noticed the non-existant generation gap. i think its excellent. and its funny. i would have never guessed the ages of some of the people on here based on their comments. it has really opened my eyes up to how much weight i put on what people look like (that doesn't mean that i think everyone is fat either lol) 

as for us all meeting in a big room... it would depend on the members. i think there would be a few moments of surprise perhaps... but once everyone got chatting it would be fine  besides, i have seen photos of tons of the members. they all seemed pretty normal to me 

ben


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## Helicopta

Hi Lainyn,
You make a good point… Although I’ve included my own age in my profile, I never really pay any attention to other people’s ages on here. I’m sure if I were to look back through some of the threads I’ve posted, I’d find I’ve been given equally tremendous help by people of all ages. I have to say that now I’ve looked, I’m surprised to learn that you are only 18!

Would it make a difference if I were in a room with these people? I’d like to think it wouldn’t. Personally, I have friends younger than me whose opinions I value more than some my own age or older… but then, I’m exceptionally cool for a 32 year old!  (Would you class me as one of the “old people”?) 

Also, with written communication being such a great equaliser, why would you "_determine which age group to use certain vocabulary with_"?


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## Artrella

I'm not sure if being in a room with some people younger or older than me I would act the same way as here... I'm surprised to know that some members of WR are only 15 or they are in their sixties or fifties... I have friends that are far older than me in real life... I mean outside the Internet... and at first, I must confess, I had certain reservation, but once I got to know them... I didn't see the gap...I didn't feel it!
Some people told me that at first, when they didn't know my age...my posts were _kind of like _ ( thx Venuzinha   ) "childish" or "teenish"... well, I think it's my personality, because in real life I'm like that...A lot of classmates of mine, can't believe I'm 39 and have two kids... because I act "crazy"... I mean... not "motherish"...  

I think that written communication equalizes all not only in connection to age, but it allows us to leave aside a lot of complexes(?) we may have, physical appearance, shyness, age... social status... It would be "la prueba de fuego" (the million dollars question) to see if we were to meet everybody here... would we behave the same way we do in written communication?  Would we be the same way we are in our posts?.... I wish we could see if this is true!!

Ciao Belli!!      (see? I love these smilies!!... sorry!!)


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## VenusEnvy

Lain: lol, I have noticed that some of our foreros seem to be "fuddy-duddies" (most of the time, but not all, it has seemed to correlate with age). But, I think it has more to do with personality. I agree with Art. I was shocked to see that alc was only 15! And, well, Art, it's true: You don't necessarily "act your age" either.    

I wouldn't change my language around someone depending on their age. If they don't understand my vernacular, they ask, and we all learn! 

Ya feel me?


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## LV4-26

I totally agree that written communication is an equalizer.

Though some members have included their age in their profile, I rarely look at it and when I do, I don't find any noticeable differences between people's speech. I don't see any age influence on what they say and how they say it.

What I have trouble with is gender. I mean I can't help assigning a gender to the people I'm reading. Can you ? There may be several reasons as, for example, assuming a user's name ending in -a must belong to a girl. It's just a spontaneous movement : I assign a gender to all the foreros even without any sort of objective evidence. More than once I've caught myself writing "ce type est vraiment génial" or "cette fille est absolument adorable" and then, just before submitting my post, I thought "after all, I haven't got any clue as to whether this person is male or female" and corrected my message accordingly.

Does this happen to you as well ?

Jean-Michel


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## Helicopta

Yes Jean-Michel I do this too!
I don't know why but I make assumptions regarding peoples gender and I almost always get it wrong! (In the forum of course, not in everyday life!)
For no real reason, I've made the assumption that Lainyn is a girl, I can't explain why, I just have. My sincere apologies if I'm wrong! If I am, it may help to know that it was pointed out to me that 'helicopta' sounded feminine because it ends in 'a'. The thought had never occured to me, I wrote it that way purely as a kind of phonetic/deliberate misspelling of the English (long story).
By the way Jean-Michel, I've just clocked your age and I must say I thought you were younger.
_Never trust your instincts!_


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## VenusEnvy

Helicopta said:
			
		

> For no real reason, I've made the assumption that Lainyn is a girl, I can't explain why, I just have.


I have as well. Hmm . . .




			
				Helicopta said:
			
		

> it may help to know that it was pointed out to me that 'helicopta' sounded feminine because it ends in 'a'. The thought had never occured to me, I wrote it that way purely as a kind of phonetic/deliberate misspelling of the English (long story).


Wait, so you're not a female?

I must concur with you all. Here's a question: Which "matters" most to you: gender or age? That is to say that, would you change the way you spoke wrote depending on someone's age, or gender?


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## Artrella

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I must concur with you all. Here's a question: Which "matters" most to you: gender or age? That is to say that, would you change the way you spoke wrote depending on someone's age, or gender?



Oh! I have to admit that once I made a terrible mistake with a dear WR girlfriend ... I thought she was a man.  And then... with some man which I thought from the way he writes his post... I thought he was she... but for soooo loong!  I won't give names of course... but this last person... well I still believe he is a she...I cannot help it!  
My tendency is to think that all the members are men....  ....young and beauuutiful...


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## asm

Artrella said:
			
		

> . It would be "la prueba de fuego" (the million dollars question) to see if we were to meet everybody here... would we behave the same way we do in written communication? Would we be the same way we are in our posts?.... I wish we could see if this is true!!


 
I think we all (maybe this is only for me ) couldn't pass the test. There are many dividors in our life, too many in my opinion. In daily life we are divided by: gender, age, social and economical position, labor position, personal and intelectual interests, ethnicity.
There is some research that says that similar people are attracted to each other, so similar people hire similar people; similar people get along in an easier way. 
There are some aspects that make us cross the line, as adults we need children, children need us, women prefer men to get married as men do the same  (with the girls, no to the men). A study (I cannot find the reference) showed that people get unconfortable when they cannot know the gender of the other person (I think the research was based on real interaction, not through Internet).
In the USA they are asking your ethnicity for any reason, and newspapers are always posting the age of the people (I do not know why).
Although some "foreros" could have an almost perfect score on the Artella's test, I think not everybody could. Unless we foreros were made with another kind of flesh, bones and mind.
By the way, I sometimes "imagine" the way y'all look like, and I cannto get a clear idea but just working in front of the computer (for some, all day long), when I imagine the way you look like I cannot see your eyes nor your mouth, but I "can" see your computer 

Sorry Artella, I would like to pass the test, but I do not know if I could pass it with out cheating  . (I will dye my gray hair and dress up to go to the meeting, something that I never do).


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## Artrella

asm said:
			
		

> Sorry Artella, I would like to pass the test, but I do not know if I could pass it with out cheating  . (I will dye my gray hair and dress up to go to the meeting, something that I never do).



Nah!  You are all right!!   .... When and where??  ha ha ha !!!  

Now tell me, why are you imagining us... haven't you seen our "beauuuutiful faces" in that thread "Faces behind the nicknames"??  Well since you are not there... could you send me your pic... I have a collection of pics from a looot  of members and some of the "big honchos"....


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## Benjy

the truth is though over the internet a lot of people think it is possible to behave differently than you would in real life. i think to a certain extent people may be a little more open/extrovert than they are in person. for obvious reasons. but its impossible over any length of time to be anyone but yourself. so  i am fairly sure that if i ever met up with any of the foreros with whom i have spoken at length the conversation would be pretty normal. apart from i dont have a speech impediment anything liek my typing impediment


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## VenusEnvy

benjy said:
			
		

> so  i am fairly sure that if i ever met up with any of the foreros with whom i have spoken at length the conversation would be pretty normal. apart from i dont have a speech impediment anything liek my typing impediment


I don't like these type of conversations that we have. It makes me wanna put something together so we can all meet! Ya know?    

(Of course I know that this would be impossible . . . )


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## asm

Artrella said:
			
		

> My tendency is to think that all the members are men....


 
I had the same tendency until TE GATO said she was a "she" and Phryne (to who I only related to her avatar -HOmer Simpson) told me she is a "nena" I came to realize that maybe there are more girls (nenas) than boys (nenes), but maybe we are just even. 

This is my picture  
When my wife complains about the time I spent with the computer  
When I enter to the forum  
When people contradict me  
But when they agree with me


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## cuchuflete

If you were to deny any information about a forero, and give all of us numbers and letters, like Jean-Michel, and then asked me to guess gender, age, and nationality,
I would probably be right about age 1/3 of the time.  I would guess gender correctly
about 60%.  As to nationality, it really depends on whether I am reading someone's words in their own language or a second or third language.  

Most Americans and Brits are fairly obvious, due to vocabulary and style. Southern Europeans tend to write long, intricate sentences, which English speakers would express as a paragraph broken into many sentences.  Latin Americans seem to have as many styles as there are countries and regions.  

So, in sum, I would guess wrong most of the time, other than to distinguish some native English speakers from people from France, Italy, Portugal and Spain.  The best part of all of this is that it doesn't matter.  I enjoy trading ideas, opinions, and information.  The forums are like a cultural university with a wonderfully diverse faculty of experts in humanity!


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## Cathurian

Yes, it is true that people become uncomfortable when they don't know the other's gender. There's a lot of reasons for that: namely, they don't know which pronoun to use -- or adjective if speaking, say, Spanish -- and that's a lot of stress already. Then, to make things worse, they don't really know how to *act* around this person...society has gender appropriate behavior, and for anyone who is (or appears to be) neither or both, it's really hard to fit in. It's hard to gage whether or not someone will take offense to your words or actions if you can't tell what gender they are, and if people can't tell what gender YOU are, you don't know how to behave, because others might become confused or offended.

Age is somewhat important, because it DOES affect behavior (do you act the same at 40 as you did at 20?), but it affects everybody differently. It's hard to realise that sometimes and we can judge too quickly, assuming that if we were in some grievous error at age 14, it's because 14 is a stupid age -- not just because that lapse in our personal development happened to coincide with age 14. It's an easy thing to do, but I agree that the internet helps equalize these factors...just about the only thing a person can be judged for besides their opinion itself is their writing, and people tend to recognise the pettiness of this pretty quick.


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## lainyn

Aww! Thank-you all for replying. I found your opinions fascinating, and I will try to reply to each point separately, when I get the time.

I am a girl. I think it's been mentioned a few times in the English forum, but other than that, I just kind of assume that it's obvious I'm female. I like it that way. I have to admit that I thought Helicopta was a girl too, simply because of that little -a ending. There are several foreros whose gender I am very curious about. I'm too shy to ask though. 

I think gender makes a MUCH bigger difference than age. I have to say, I tend to assume that everyone is from 18-30 - because my parents don't even know how to turn on the computer. How ironic that it turns out most foreros are middle-aged! 

I also had a hard time believing Art and Te Gato's ages. They seem so young and fun-loving. 

I love the Internet, because it allows everyone to be themselves! 

One last question, for those of you who never bothered looking at my age, how old did you think I was? 

~Lainyn


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## cuchuflete

lainyn said:
			
		

> One last question, for those of you who never bothered looking at my age, how old did you think I was?



Young enough to have asked the question.


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## te gato

I also had a hard time believing Art and Te Gato's ages. They seem so young and fun-loving..

jajajajajajaja...

and yes..I am a 'she cat'....

oooppppsss..back on topic...

I feel that age has nothing to with how you communicate..you either can or you can't..you either know what you are talking about..or you don't..(_or you_ _pretend_ _you do_)..
To me it all boils down to perception..how something is perceived..how it is felt by the person you are speaking with..
In language..yes there are 'rules and regulations'..but who is to say that we have to follow them? If that is the case..I'm hooped!!..Communication is a process of exchanging thoughts..ideas..and as we have all found out in numerous occasions..different areas, culture, background..makes the perception of those thoughts and ideas different..and that is what makes communicating so fun and fascinating...the age factor is of no importance..whether you are 12..22..52..or 102..you still communicate..share who you are..what you know..yadda,yadda...
The generosity of others in this forum is amazing..I mean think about it..we realy are 'faceless'..in the aspect that we do not know each other from Adam..but all of us are willing to take the time to help..to offer other suggestions..to put a lot of thought and effort in what we are saying...and to have the patience to do that for others..just shows what type of people 'live' here..
Now if you all would excuse me..I need some chocolate...

the ever so old and ancient.. 
te gato


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## el alabamiano

lainyn said:
			
		

> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I just had a thought today, that I'd like to discuss. Have you noticed how difficult it is to tell how old everyone one is on WordReference Forums (or any other for that matter). I am constantly amazed at how cool "old people" are, from around the globe. I won't name names, but none of the foreros here seem to be old fuddy-duddies or anything.


Well, I'm 55 and I deliberately behave more reservedly on this forum than I have on any other, although I've cut-up a little with a couple of foreros through PMs. I imagine some of the other foreros do the same, making it more difficult to capture someone's personality. In real life, I'm considered as laid-back, neither acting nor looking my age, and I get along better with women more than men, and usually better with the women in their 20s or 30s more than any other age group. 





> "If all the foreros were seated in a room together, would you feel more uncomfortable at long last knowing what everyone looks like, how old they are, and what colour their skin is"?


 I don't care how they look, or the age. From personal experience, having met a few Internet friends in person over the years, ranging from age 18 to 39, two were real disappointments, one being a gambling and drug addict, the other being nothing like she pretended online. I actually drove a couple of hundred miles to spend the weekend with her and her husband. It didn't take me long to figure out that he had no clue about her deception and innocently spilled the beans about her. I was so disappointed in her that I came home again that very night and ended all contact soon after. However, I imagine if I met the group of Word foreros, the only (initial) discomfort would be the fact that I don't actually speak the language I'm trying to learn (Spanish). Other than that...I don't know.


> I have to say, I tend to assume that everyone is from 18-30 - because my parents don't even know how to turn on the computer. How ironic that it turns out most foreros are middle-aged!


Well, quit assuming! The first computer I used was in '69 when I was in a military hospital. Part of my "get-better" routine was to type stuff on something similiar to a typewriter, but it put information on a roll of data tape and cards which some might remember having on them...Do Not Fold, Spindle or Mutilate.


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## cuchuflete

Thanks for the memories Neal.  My first contact with a computer was in the fall of 1965,
when all incoming students at my college were required to learn BASIC, which had recently been invented by a couple of Profs. in the math department.  I remember the frustration I endured.  No matter what I tried to program, the steam pipes rattled, there was a pause, and then the TTX spit herky-jerky words onto a roll of paper: SYNTAX ERROR

I have not progressed much since then.  


CHKDSK, BOOTCFG, LOADHIGH and DIR/W/P were easy by comparison.


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## el alabamiano

Ah, yeah!  Good ol' BASIC and DOS.  What one can do with batch files!  At one time, I knew _waaay_ more about DOS than Windows, so when I wanted to alter files or directories, or whatever, I'd Shell out to DOS, then take care of it from there. It took me a while to get out of that sad little habit, but happily....I DID!


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## Benjy

el alabamiano said:
			
		

> Ah, yeah!  Good ol' BASIC and DOS.  What one can do with batch files!  At one time, I knew _waaay_ more about DOS than Windows, so when I wanted to alter files or directories, or whatever, I'd Shell out to DOS, then take care of it from there. It took me a while to get out of that sad little habit, but happily....I DID!



hehe. thats funny. it just goes to show how little age means. i have the hardest time trying to explain the simplest of things to some of the kids of my genereation. if i gave them a dos prompt/linux shell they would probably start crying


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## el alabamiano

Benjy said:
			
		

> hehe. thats funny. it just goes to show how little age means. i have the hardest time trying to explain the simplest of things to some of the kids of my genereation. if i gave them a dos prompt/linux shell they would probably start crying


A few years ago, I taught online computer "basics" to some people. They were so Windows-washed, they couldn't even comprehend that there was even a DOS, so forget trying to teach 'em anything DOS-related!


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## VenusEnvy

I zoned out at post #21.


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## Cathurian

Don't worry, I don't know much about computers either.

If I can make it go, I'm happy. Hehe.


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## el alabamiano

Yeah, it's just a couple of ol' geezers reminiscing about the good ol' days.

And then there's Benjy, category--his own!


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## cuchuflete

Just to show all of you how old I am, I once worked for a printer, setting type by hand, upside down and backwards images.  So perhaps that's how I quickly spotted this BBC caption, and had a good laugh:

Many Lebanese are only to happy to see the Syrians leave

Many in Lebanon doubted, up to the last minute, that it would really happen, but Syria has finally pulled all of its troops out of the country.


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## te gato

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I zoned out at post #21.


Hey Venus;
DOS stands for..Disk Operating System..and at one time Windows needed DOS to run..but Windows 95..98..2000..and XP..do not..

Linux..is a system..that you can download on your computer..and use instead of Windows...

(_I have XP and have been thinking of switching to Linux..mmm..not to sure_ _though...)_

te gato


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## VenusEnvy

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Venus;
> DOS stands for..Disk Operating System..and at one time Windows needed DOS to run..but Windows 95..98..2000..and XP..do not..
> 
> Linux..is a system..that you can download on your computer..and use instead of Windows...
> 
> (_I have XP and have been thinking of switching to Linux..mmm..not to sure_ _though...)_
> 
> te gato


Thanks, Gato, but I know what they are. (Not by choice, though)
It's just that at the very sight of those words, I begin zoning out. I barely even got through your post.


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## zebedee

Yes, I also thought you were a girl, Helicopta, not only because of the _-a_ but because of the way you express yourself. I do find myself attributing gender to other foreros but that's probably due to the different ways people communicate rather than any conscious need to know if someone's male or female. A few people who didn't know if I was male or female were apparently surprised when they saw my photo in the Photos thread that was around a few months back!

I never look at foreros' ages in their personal profile and enjoy the fact that it really doesn't make any difference to me whereas, as others have already said, in 'real life' I'd probably change my style of communication according to the age of the person I had in front of me.

It's very refreshing to strip away all physical attributes and communicate mentally here.

zeb


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## Artrella

Well it seems that everyone thought that Helicopta was a girl but me!!!

First because I doubted a girl would choose that name. It's like a boy's toy or sth... maybe he would have chosen "Barbie" "Doll" I don't know some name of a toy for girls.
Then I imagined that it was the sound of the word in good English... I love pronunciating the "schwa" in final position without the "r"...


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## te gato

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> Thanks, Gato, but I know what they are. (Not by choice, though)
> It's just that at the very sight of those words, I begin zoning out. I barely even got through your post.


ja ja ja ja..
agggg.....sorry......
I guess I'm in my own zone.. 

te gato


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## Cathurian

I thought helicopta was a guy too, Artrella.


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## lainyn

Haha, I know, I'll quit assuming. I have gotten a bit better at realising all these things (that "old" people can be cool etc) since I've become friends with my professors, etc. I'm sorry if I've offended anybody by saying that I have a hard time believing anyone over the age of 30 knows how to use a computer.  that wasn't my intent at all.

I guess when it comes down to it, I'm a pretty formal person. I speak in much the same way as I write, and for that, I'd have to say I don't fit in with my peers. I think I will resurrect the pictures thread, if it hasn't been already, so you can all see me 

~Lainyn


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## garryknight

Age, sex, and what someone looks like are not the important things about people, in my opinion; what they have to say is far more interesting. When a new forero posts I tend to check their name and age so I knew you were 18, lainyn, though some of your posts suggest that you're more mature than some people your age. I, too, thought Helicopta was female just for a short while, but his posts don't have some of those giveaways that make it obvious when someone's female (and, no, I'm not talking about chocolate ). And I've made other mistakes about who's a forero and who's a forera, although I've also guessed a few before the subject has arisen.

Just to correct a misconception, Artrella and Te Gato *are* young. But I suppose it depends on where you're looking from. And although Art is 39, it appears that most people are... 

Oh, one other thing that I think makes a huge difference to how we see each other. We're all interested in learning languages and we're all communicating with people from other countries with different ways of life and different customs from our own. Because of this we're all perhaps more cosmopolitan than the rest of the populace, and we're looking for similarities more than for differences, and we all want to - and like to - get on well together. If only our politicians could learn to do the same...


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## asm

You look like a 15 yrs old disguised as a 18 yrs old.

I do not know how do you think people older than 30 yrs old are OLD and cannot use computer. Who invented the computers? 
I am older than Artella, so what do you think?????????? Am I toooooo old?

There is a Mafalda joke (I hope you know her, if not, your life has not been worthwhile). Her father hears Mafalda and friends complaining about something, so he goes to ask what's the problem. THey say that the newspaper has a typo in the job opportunities section, so he reads the ad for them and cannot see any mistake: Company XXX is looking for a young man who can do ........requisites  Ages: 24 yrs old ot younger.
So the father asks why they think there is a mistake, and they reply: how one can they ask for a "young" person if they are looking for an old man who is 24 already ?(in Spanish it sounds funnier).

You will learn that some "old" guys are not like those ones depicted in the movies.





			
				lainyn said:
			
		

> One last question, for those of you who never bothered looking at my age, how old did you think I was?
> 
> ~Lainyn


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## te gato

asm said:
			
		

> I am older than Artella, so what do you think?????????? Am I toooooo old?
> You will learn that some "old" guys are not like those ones depicted in the movies.


Hey asm;
Oh!! you are soooo old..what..mmm..43..Time for the walker...the retirement home..you can have the room next to mine.. ja ja ja jaja..
Age..Race...Male or Female.. has nothing to do with communication...I feel we are equal...

te gato


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## lainyn

No, no. You're not old, I put it in quotes to emphasize the humor about it. In fact, I am making friends in "real life" who are your age, namely professors, but other folks as well. It's just difficult to wrap my head around the fact that people my *parents' age* are this cool. Thank-you for making it a lot easier, everyone! Oh, and, I will take my lumps about the looking 15 thing, since I did ask for it.


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## LV4-26

Artrella said:
			
		

> Well it seems that everyone thought that Helicopta was a girl but me!!!
> 
> First because I doubted a girl would choose that name. It's like a boy's toy or sth... maybe he would have chosen "Barbie" "Doll" I don't know some name of a toy for girls.
> Then I imagined that it was the sound of the word in good English... I love pronunciating the "schwa" in final position without the "r"...


This is precisely what I wanted to say. Everything. I mean the part about the toy and the one about the pronouciation and how I'm fond of it. The lot.
Except that I would no longer say "everyone but me"  .

As I said, I wouldn't care that much about knowing the gender of the foreros and foreras or not, if only I could refrain from spontaneously attributing one to them. I mean, it seems that we make up a conceptual image of the other members by reading their messages and we could perfectly deal with this conceptual image. Only there's something in our minds (some sort of "perception machinery " qui "tourne à vide*" possibly  ) which can't help "incarnating" this image and assigning physical features to it. 

Now, thanks to the "photos" thread, I've been able to correct some mistakes and confirm some correct assumptions.

*Sorry I really don't know how to translate "tourner à vide" in English.


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## germinal

I toyed with the idea of representing myself on this website as a young, virile, witty, intelligent, sensitive, artistic, handsome man in the prime of life but I found it impossible to lie about my age. 

Germinal.


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