# Pronunciation: 磨



## yuechu

Hello/大家好，

I have a question about the word 磨. For the meaning "to grind" (coffee beans), should it be pronounced mo2 or mo4? A dictionary I was looking at today has the meaning for both pronunciations. Is one more common than the other for this meaning?
Thanks!


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## retrogradedwithwind

Maybe both.
Mo4豆腐
But I perhaps say 把豆腐mo2了.
This meaning is less and less used these days so I cant give you a fixed answer.


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## Skatinginbc

baosheng said:


> For the meaning "to grind" (coffee beans), should it be pronounced mo2 or mo4?


To me, only mo2 is correct in the context you provided (i.e., "to grind coffee beans"). 
Compare: 
磨mo2咖啡豆 "to grind coffee beans" ==> "Coffee beans" is the grammatical patient upon which the action "grind" is carried out. 
磨 mo4豆腐 "to make Tofu by pressing coagulated soy milk into blocks ==>  "Tofu" is the product of the action, not the receiver of the action.  
把...磨mo2成豆腐 "to grind something into Tofu
磨mo2杵成針
鐵杵磨mo2成針

And I personally make the following distinction, which may not be universally agreed upon:   
鐵杵磨mo2針 to grind a needle with an iron pestle
 鐵杵磨mo4針 to grind an iron pestle into a needle.


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## fyl

I consulted some dictionaries, the relevant meanings are
mo2(verb) to rub, e.g. 磨擦(usually written as 摩擦, but this is also OK but non-standard), 磨刀(sharpen a knife), 磨破(be injured because of rubbing, worn).
mo4(noun) grinder, stone mill.
mo4(verb) use a 磨(noun) to crush food into flour or small pieces, e.g. 磨面, 磨豆腐, 磨麦子.

The above is the standard pronunciations/meanings.
In life, I felt a bit difficult to tell the sound in 磨面, 磨豆腐. Maybe both sounds are OK to me. But after thinking a bit more, I think I do distinguish 磨mo2成 and 磨mo4成. 磨mo2 indicates rubbing, think about sharpening a knife by rubbing it on a stone, whereas 磨mo4 means using a stone mill.
I suggest to follow the dictionary. That is, mo2 for rubbing, and mo4 for crushing (especially using a machine or other equipment).

Edit: Just saw Skatinginbc's answer. 磨豆腐 is indeed an interesting structure. Personally I still think "磨mo4 something" means to grind it instead of making things into it. Dictionaries also suggest so. We do have weird expressions like 磨豆腐, 擀面条, 包饺子, 蒸包子, 焖米饭, 挖坑, etc, but it does not mean that these verbs must be followed by the products and not the objects.
To me, 铁杵磨mo2成针(idiom) means to rub the iron pestle until it becomes a needle (means a lot of effort), 铁杵磨mo4成面儿 means to crush the iron pestle into powder. If without 成 it seems there are a lot of possibilities...
This is just my opinion.


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## M Mira

In Taiwan, even the MoE seems to be confused about the usage of mò.
here, mò could only be used as a noun meaning (1.1)"mill" and (1.2)"millstone", but here, two other usages are acceptable: (2)"to grind (grain)" and (3)"to turn around (a vehicle)"

I have never heard of (3), and (2) is rare, none in my family uses mò and instead has mó for all verb usage, though I still hear it from time to time. While for (1.2), everyone in my family uses mò.

(1.1) is tricky. The 磨 in 磨坊 is read differently even inside my family. My parents use mò, my sister uses mò consciously but prefers mó in colloquial speech, while I use mó exclusively and didn't even remember mò until I started searching.


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## retrogradedwithwind

I dont think those two expressions are pronounced differently
磨咖啡
磨咖啡豆
So I disagree with skatinginbc's opinion. 

Maybe, just my guess, a trend is that mo2 is pronounced when 磨 is used a verb while mo4 for noun aside from some fixed expressions like 磨豆腐。
I think mo2豆腐，mo2面 as mistaken pronunciation still exist


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## Skatinginbc

I have never heard of 磨mo4成 in Taiwan, where people say 磨mo2成 only.  If 磨mo4 means "to crush", then 磨mo4平 (把物碾平) is possible, which I've never heard of in Taiwan either. And I pronounce 磨米机 as mo2mi3ji1 because (1) the end product is 粉 not 米粒 (unlike 磨mo4豆漿, in which 豆漿 is the end product) and more importantly (2) when 磨 means 將物研細, it is pronounced mo2. By the way, 磨mo2咖啡 is a short form for 磨mo2咖啡豆, meaning 將咖啡豆研細成粉.

The definition "用磨将粮食加工成所需的状态" given by 汉典 for 磨 mo4 seems to imply (1) 用磨 the use of a machine or tool that rolls (e.g.,趕麵杖), (2) 粮食 the involvement of some kind of edible, and finally (3) 加工成所需的状态 the use of the end product, rather than the patient, as its grammatical object. 

Because in my dialect 磨mo4成 does not exist and 磨mo4  (as a verb) is always followed by a product rather than a patent, it  has been an implicit rule that governs my own habit of pronunciation.  

Finally, here is the million-dollar question: Have you ever heard people say "磨mo4咖啡" or "磨mo4咖啡豆?  I've never, of course.


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## fyl

Well, we have to admit dialectal differences exist.

I don't think "用磨将粮食加工成所需的状态" in 汉典 implies the use of the end product, because it has "磨米" under that meaning. In 现代汉语词典, there is "磨麦子" under the 用磨把粮食弄碎 meaning.

So far I'm thinking about the following:
The basic meaning of 磨mo2 is (a.1) (verb)摩擦. The basic meaning of 磨mo4 is (b.1) (noun)磨盘、石磨.

For 磨mo2, one extended meaning is (a.2) 摩擦使变细碎/光滑/等等. This is further extended to (a.3) 用工具（杵、臼）研磨. (In 现汉 and 汉典, there is even not a separated meaning for "将物研细", words like 磨墨, 研磨 are under 摩擦-like items.)
For 磨mo4, one extended meaning is (b.2) （用磨mo4）将物碾碎. This kind of extending is common, e.g. 把这个东西用锯子锯一下，电钻[鑽]钻一下，车床车一下，凿[鑿]子凿一下. (BTW, we do have mo4平 in my dialect, but it means something irrelevant, and I'm not even sure if the character is 磨. "将物碾平" does not fit this meaning because it's not 将物碾碎, it's not the kind of job that a 磨盘 usually does.)

Obviously, (a.2) and (b.2) are similar, (a.3) and (b.2) are almost the same, and that's how people can get confused. What I suggested in my previous post is to distinguish them according to whether 摩擦 is the main movement (and this also matches my feeling of the words). Of course, in real life there are all kinds of possibilities and things may not be strict.

For 咖啡, I've never heard of 磨mo4咖啡/磨mo4咖啡豆/磨mo2咖啡/磨mo2咖啡豆.
To me, "磨mo2咖啡豆" without a context can be 用手捏着一个咖啡豆在墙上或石头上蹭, and "把xx豆磨mo4碎了", "把xx豆磨mo4成粉" are quite natural.

With all these dialectal/understanding differences and ambiguities, I don't have a definite answer to the OP's question. I guess in life either sound can happen.


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## retrogradedwithwind

I too never hear 磨咖啡，but maybe I have heard something like 我们这的咖啡都是现磨mo2的，maybe from a drama.

For me, mo4米 mo4面 etc.sound nature and I cannot recall how my old relatives say 把麦子磨了去，maybe mo4 or 2.


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## yuechu

Thanks, everyone, for your replies!


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## yuechu

How about in this context:
各阶段都有要面对的课题，
初期要等，中间要*磨*，后期要戒慎恐惧谋长进。
若正在遭逢瓶颈，是因为我们想要更好，更好的成绩，绝不是现在的样子；
突破瓶颈的方式就是积极，就是持续，累了就好好休息，同时学新事物。
虽然不一定立即见效，但唯有继续努力，才有机会看见新东西。
现在遇到个人的困境与问题，这个考验是～怎么样作为一个工作人？继续享受这个过程，开心地活下去？
珍惜瓶颈，那代表你看得到未来。

Should it be mó here?
Thanks!


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## albert_laosong

Yes, it's mo2 here.
I think in most cases it's mo2, especially in phrases like 磨时间（pass the time by fooling around or something），磨洋工( do your work very slowly and without efficiency on purpose).

Only in special cases where you actually grind something with a tool, you need to say mo4, like 磨豆腐，磨坊，小磨香油（=芝麻油）。

Ah, just thought of one phrase where 磨 is used in the same way as 磨mo2，but it's pronounced as mo4. The phrase is 磨叽, meaning basically the same as 拖拉，both meaning being very slow at things, making others feel impatient, annoyed.

*EDIT:  *Please note 磨叽 is a very informal word, often used by friends when they criticize you for being slow at things.


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## yuechu

That's very helpful. Thanks, Albert_laosong!


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## SuperXW

I prefer to use mo2 as a verb, and mo4 as the noun. I think it would be easier.


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## garbage_cnbeta

凭我个人直觉是读4声，查了一下字典也确实是4声，不过估计很多人生活中读2声的……


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