# let alone, not to mention



## ThomasK

Everyone knows that expression, I suppose: something like "a fortiori", as in "In no case should a flourishing business shed staff, *let* *alone* make employees redundant." The main thing is: do you have this expression or something similar? And how do you formulate it? Do you have alternatives? (As in English: "*not to mentio*n"... 

Dutch:  *"laat staan*" (lit. let stand), "*om nog te zwijgen/ en dan zwijg ik nog over *..." [not to mention; but lit.: in order to remain quiet with regard to/ and then I remain quiet about..." I think it is relatively recent, but I have not been able to "substantiate" that claim...


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## Dymn

*Spanish*: 
_y mucho menos _"and a lot less"
_por no hablar de "_not to speak of_" _(I though this was the easiest translation but it doesn't seem to work for many of the contexts I'm coming across for "_let alone_"  )


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## Awwal12

In Russian it's "not speaking about (that)..." - не говоря о (том, что)..."; it's hard to come up with any alternatives which would be equally idiomatic.


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Let alone: *«Πόσο μάλλον»* [ˈpɔ.sɔ ˈma.lɔn]; «πόσο» is the neuter form of the Classical interrogative pronoun *«πόσος» pósŏs* --> _how much?, how many?, how great?_ (PIE *kʷoti- _how much?_ cf Skt. कति (kati), _how many?_, Lat. quot), while «μάλλον» is a Classical adv. *«μᾶλλον» mâllŏn* --> _more, rather_ < Classical adv. *«μάλα» mắlă* --> _very, quite, by all means_ (PIE *mel- _strong, better_ cf Lat. melius, Ltv. milns, _very many_). 

Not to mention: *«Καθώς και»* [kaˈθɔs ce]; «καθώς» is a Classical adv. *«καθώς» kătʰṓs* --> _according as, just as, as, when_ < preposition & prefix *«κατά» kătắ* + adv. *«ὡς» hōs*. «Και» is the Classical conjunction *«καί» kaí̯*


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## jazyk

In Portuguese: imagine/imagina or sem falar de "without speaking of".


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## Ghabi

m4hou2waa6 唔好話 "don't say".


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## Yendred

Awwal12 said:


> In Russian it's "not speaking about (that)..."





jazyk said:


> In Portuguese: imagine/imagina or sem falar de "without speaking of".



Same in French: "_sans parler de..."_


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## merquiades

I don't have enough time to go to the grocery, let alone go for a night out on the town.
I don't have money to spend the weekend in Gerardmer, let alone go all the way to Paris.
What!? You'll be lucky even if you pass that English class,  let alone get a high mark.
There's no way she's getting away from her in-laws so easily, let alone with her money, her title and reputation intact!
That strike is not getting over any time soon,  let alone this week.

Let alone adds a bit of punch to a sentence, maybe even satire.  You better rethink those ideas.  It's not happening.
It's not at all neutral sounding.

I don't think there is enough contrast between shed staff and make redundant to use "let alone" because it's kind of the same thing.
A thriving business should my no means stop hiring new workers, let alone fire the staff that has been working there for years.


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## ThomasK

I must say I have been wondering whether the alternatives we have seen are interchangeable. In your five examples I could not use "Om nog te zwijgen van". In the latter case things must be more tragic, I suppose. 

Does anyone have any idea of when the expression got in use?

@merquiades : I agree with you that the difference between the two options in my example is small indeed. I just needed a quote to illustrate how "let alone" works, and picked out the wrong one, I am afraid. Often indeed it is often like "turning the knife/dagger in the wound", as we could put it in Flemish.


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## merquiades

The gray skies and rain not to mention the frigid temperatures will keep us indoors this week.
Maybe this is "om nog te zwijgen". No contrast just adding more information.


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## Yendred

jazyk said:


> In Portuguese: imagine/imagina or sem falar de "without speaking of".



I was puzzled about the etymology of the Portuguese _falar_, and interestingly I found that it was cognate with Latin _fabulare_ (why did the "_bu_" drop?)_, _which also gave _fable,  affable _and other cognates. In French, we also have _affabuler_, which means _to make up stories, to embellish, to fantasize_.


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## ThomasK

@merquiades: I think you are right, that is the difference!

@Yendred  : Nice story, please to read about that!!! (By the way; just look for "fable" at Etymonline.com, and you might find very interesting links, and not just words based on _fable_… I love it for that reason…)


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## merquiades

Yendred said:


> I was puzzled about the etymology of the Portuguese _falar_, and interestingly I found that it was cognate with Latin _fabulare_ (why did the "_bu_" drop?)_, _which also gave _fable,  affable _and other cognates. In French, we also have _affabuler_, which means _to make up stories, to embellish, to fantasize_.


 fa-bu-la-re. Pre and post tonic vowels except "a" are dropped in Iberian romance giving fab-lar-. Then syllabic ending b was weakened and vocalized into faw-lar and finally dropped to _falar_.


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## Yendred

@merquiades: Thanks!


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## Penyafort

In Catalan what first comes to mind is *i ja no diguem... *or* i ja no parlem de... *(Literally, _and let us now not say/speak about.._.)

_Let alone_ in some contexts, would be _*i encara menys *_('and even less')


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## Circunflejo

Another option in Spanish would be …y menos aún (and even less).



merquiades said:


> Pre and post tonic vowels except "a" are dropped in Iberian romance giving fab-lar-.


In Leonese, the final e is kept: falare.


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## Olaszinhok

*Italian:*
let alone or not to mention:
*per non parlare di
figurarsi poi
per non dire di
ancora  meno*


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## ThomasK

I see a new element, I suppose: "even less". Not sure whether it is an idiom in Dutch, but it could work in Dutch too...


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## Armas

Finnish:
_*puhumattakaan*_ "without even speaking [of]"
_*saati*_, which according to wikipedia comes from _saada_ + _-ti_ = "without end", which is somewhat puzzling as _saada_ means "to get, receive".


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## ThomasK

Do you think they are perfect synonyms, Armas? (See messages #7-10)


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## Armas

It seems to me that the only difference between them is syntactical: _puhumattakaan_ can't be followed by an adverb nor an infinitive, so you'd have to use a subordinate clause and make the sentence clumsy, repetitive. But as for meaning, I can't see any difference.
My dictionary gives two more expressions: _vielä vähemmän_ "even less" and_ sitä suuremmalla syyllä _"by a reason greater than that", but the former isn't a perfect synonym as it can only be used with negative statements and the latter means "a fortiori".


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## Welsh_Sion

Welsh:

Let alone / not to mention:

heb sôn am(+ Soft Mutation) ...
without mentioning about ...

Literary language: chwaethach...,
rich-er less ...

llai fyth ...
less ever / less even ...


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## fdb

German is interesting. “Geschweige” is today considered to be conjunction, but historically it is the fossilized 1st person singular of the obsolescent verb “geschweigen”, “to be silent about sth.”.


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