# swallowed by the heat



## Arashi

I'm stuck between two ways of saying something, neither of which I'm 100% sure are grammatically correct.
I want to say "three times, Chihiro tried to fly over the vast sea, but each time, she was swallowed/overwhelmed by the heat."
The sea, by the way, is of lava/fire, which is why it's hot. And if any more context is needed, let me know.
This is what I have so far:

三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを飲みました。
（さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさちひろをのみました。）

or

三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さ*で*ちひろ*は*飲み込まれました。
（さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさでちひろはのみこまれました。）

I'm also not sure about the two particles that I marked. I'm not very familiar with the form I used to conjugate 飲み込む (the passive form?), so I'm not certain that I'm using it correctly. Also, 飲まれました might be more appropriate.

If anyone knows of any better / more natural ways of saying this, please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.


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## Wishfull

三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを飲み*込み*ました。
三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さでちひろは飲み込まれました。
Both correct.


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ＢＴＷ, what/who is Chihiro? Is she a phoenix?
"but each time, she was swallowed/overwhelmed by the heat" doesn't make sense to me. Why she is still alive? 
What "swallowed by the heat" mean? Figurative speech?


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## Arashi

Wishfull said:


> ＢＴＷ, what/who is Chihiro? Is she a phoenix?
> "but each time, she was swallowed/overwhelmed by the heat" doesn't make sense to me. Why she is still alive?
> What "swallowed by the heat" mean? Figurative speech?


Chihiro is something resembling a human, though obviously much longer-lived with the ability to fly.

One thing I meant to ask in the original post, actually, was if the verb 飲む could translate to "to overwhelm", in which case the sentence is supposed to convey with some ambiguity.
In english, "swallowed/consumed" can be used figuratively to mean "overwhelmed", and as I used it in the story, it basically means that the heat was too much for her to bear and she was forced to turn back.

Edit:
I noticed you changed 飲みました to 飲み込みました in the first sentence. Is this a more accurate translation? I don't really know the difference between the two verbs...


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## Wishfull

Arashi said:


> Chihiro is something resembling a human, though obviously much longer-lived with the ability to fly.
> ＯＫ．I understand that it is an unreal-creature.
> 
> One thing I meant to ask in the original post, actually, was if the verb 飲む could translate to "to overwhelm", in which case the sentence is supposed to convey with some ambiguity.
> In english, "swallowed/consumed" can be used figuratively to mean "overwhelmed", and as I used it in the story, it basically means that the heat was too much for her to bear and she was forced to turn back.
> Then, the translation is wrong.
> 飲み込まれた　means Chihiro is caught by the wave of the sea, and Chihiro goes under the sea/lava.
> or
> 飲み込まれた　means Chihiro is caught by the fire, and Chihiro goes inside the fire.
> So I think why Chihiro is still alive, she must be burned to death.
> 
> 
> *The verb "飲み込む" is different from what you want to express, do you agree with me?*
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを圧倒しました。(literal but 圧倒しましたmight be difficult to understand)
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さで断念せざるを得ませんでした。(this is more natural as Japanese)
> might be the natural translation/interpretation.
> Edit:
> I noticed you changed 飲みました to 飲み込みました in the first sentence. Is this a more accurate translation? I don't really know the difference between the two verbs...
> 
> In this context, 飲み込みました　is more idiomatic and natural than 飲みました.



edit; You can think simply;
飲みました＝drank
飲み込みました＝swallowed.
So I changed 飲みました　into 飲み込みました.


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## RomanticBoy

Arashi said:


> Chihiro is something resembling a human, though obviously much longer-lived with the ability to fly.
> 
> One thing I meant to ask in the original post, actually, was if the verb 飲む could translate to "to overwhelm", in which case the sentence is supposed to convey with some ambiguity.
> In english, "swallowed/consumed" can be used figuratively to mean "overwhelmed", and as I used it in the story, it basically means that the heat was too much for her to bear and she was forced to turn back.
> 
> Edit:
> I noticed you changed 飲みました to 飲み込みました in the first sentence. Is this a more accurate translation? I don't really know the difference between the two verbs...


 
Hello

I am intrigued by your view that 'swallowed' or 'consumed' can be used figuratively in English to mean 'overwhelmed' such that she had to turn back. I would have thought that, if these were used instead of overwhelmed, it would imply that she had disappeared into the heat i.e. was unable to turn back.


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## Arashi

RomanticBoy said:


> Hello
> 
> I am intrigued by your view that 'swallowed' or 'consumed' can be used figuratively in English to mean 'overwhelmed' such that she had to turn back. I would have thought that, if these were used instead of overwhelmed, it would imply that she had disappeared into the heat i.e. was unable to turn back.


"Swallowed" or "consumed" in literary context is often not to be taken literally but to mean something along the lines of "overwhelmed" or "taken by...". The poetic term is actually called "connotation" and I can easily see how it can cause confusion in non-native speakers.

I used "swallowed", also, in context that could have literally meant "engulfed", which was my mistake, in a way. Oftentimes, the aforementioned "connotations" are paired with a usually strong emotion. For instance:
I was consumed by rage.
I was swallowed by misery.

I read somewhere that 飲む could be translated as "to overwhelm", but I think it too concretely means "to drink/swallow" to convey another message, especially in the context I used.   x,x


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## Arashi

Arashi said:


> One thing I meant to ask in the original post, actually, was if the verb 飲む could translate to "to overwhelm", in which case the sentence is supposed to convey with some ambiguity.
> In english, "swallowed/consumed" can be used figuratively to mean "overwhelmed", and as I used it in the story, it basically means that the heat was too much for her to bear and she was forced to turn back.
> Then, the translation is wrong.
> 飲み込まれた　means Chihiro is caught by the wave of the sea, and Chihiro goes under the sea/lava.
> or
> 飲み込まれた　means Chihiro is caught by the fire, and Chihiro goes inside the fire.
> So I think why Chihiro is still alive, she must be burned to death.
> 
> 
> *The verb "飲み込む" is different from what you want to express, do you agree with me?*
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを圧倒しました。(literal but 圧倒しましたmight be difficult to understand)
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さで断念せざるを得ませんでした。(this is more natural as Japanese)
> might be the natural translation/interpretation.
> Edit:
> I noticed you changed 飲みました to 飲み込みました in the first sentence. Is this a more accurate translation? I don't really know the difference between the two verbs...
> 
> In this context, 飲み込みました　is more idiomatic and natural than 飲みました.


Yeah, I believe you're correct. And I was afraid that 飲み込む might be the wrong verb.
I don't understand why 圧倒 might be difficult to understand. Is it seldom used? (Also, is the verb 圧倒す? = あっとうす?)
I like the last sentence, though. I might end up going with that. 



Wishfull said:


> edit; You can think simply;
> 飲みました＝drank
> 飲み込みました＝swallowed.
> So I changed 飲みました　into 飲み込みました.


 That's a good distinction. I'll note that.


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## RomanticBoy

Arashi said:


> "Swallowed" or "consumed" in literary context is often not to be taken literally but to mean something along the lines of "overwhelmed" or "taken by...". The poetic term is actually called "connotation" and I can easily see how it can cause confusion in non-native speakers.
> 
> I used "swallowed", also, in context that could have literally meant "engulfed", which was my mistake, in a way. Oftentimes, the aforementioned "connotations" are paired with a usually strong emotion. For instance:
> I was consumed by rage.
> I was swallowed by misery.
> 
> I read somewhere that 飲む could be translated as "to overwhelm", but I think it too concretely means "to drink/swallow" to convey another message, especially in the context I used. x,x


 
I must admit that I still think that when you are consumed by rage (which of course should not be taken literally), it implies that the rage has taken you over and you are unable to retreat from it.  When you are consumed by fire, you do not survive, unless you are a phoenix or similar creature that is reborn from the flames.

The use of swallow in a similar context would strike me as being somewhat rare compared to consume, but I would say that it would seem to have the same implications as consume in this context. 

It seems from what Wishfull is saying that when Japanese native speakers read 飲み込む in this context, they interpret it in the same way as I interpret the English, so it appears to me that the two languages are similar in this respect.


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## RomanticBoy

I have been thinking about this a bit more and it seems to me that in English you could say something like 'it was as if she were consumed (swallowed) by the fire'.

Maybe in Japanese, use of 飲み込むように would catch the same idea. What do people think?


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## Wishfull

RomanticBoy said:


> I have been thinking about this a bit more and it seems to me that in English you could say something like 'it was as if she were consumed (swallowed) by the fire'.
> 
> Maybe in Japanese, use of 飲み込むように would catch the same idea. What do people think?



OK, I got your point. Then I would say;

三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、ちひろを飲み込むかのような溶岩の暑さのせいで、いずれも断念せざるを得ませんでした。


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## RomanticBoy

Thanks for that. It is very useful. I had completely forgotten the use of 飲み込むかのような.


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## azuki

Arashi said:


> I'm stuck between two ways of saying something, neither of which I'm 100% sure are grammatically correct.
> I want to say "three times, Chihiro tried to fly over the vast sea, but each time, she was swallowed/overwhelmed by the heat."
> The sea, by the way, is of lava/fire, which is why it's hot. And if any more context is needed, let me know.
> This is what I have so far:
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを飲みました。
> （さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさちひろをのみました。）
> 
> or
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さ*で*ちひろ*は*飲み込まれました。
> （さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさでちひろはのみこまれました。）
> 
> I'm also not sure about the two particles that I marked. I'm not very familiar with the form I used to conjugate 飲み込む (the passive form?), so I'm not certain that I'm using it correctly. Also, 飲まれました might be more appropriate.
> 
> If anyone knows of any better / more natural ways of saying this, please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.


 I would suggest the Chinese character of あつい　be 熱い.

溶岩の暑さ 
溶岩の熱さ 

熱い、暑い: pronunciation of the two different words are same あつい, but their definitions are not the same.

暑い: hot because of a high air temperature.
先月は暑かった。It was hot last month.

熱い: hot by heat or feverish by passion or excitement. 
あのフライパンは熱い。That frying pan is hot.
今、東京で一番熱い場所はどこですか。Where is the best feverish place now in Tokyo?


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## Ghabi

Yup, I think the character 暑 is chosen only when we talk about weather.


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## azuki

Arashi said:


> I'm stuck between two ways of saying something, neither of which I'm 100% sure are grammatically correct.
> I want to say "three times, Chihiro tried to fly over the vast sea, but each time, she was swallowed/overwhelmed by the heat."
> The sea, by the way, is of lava/fire, which is why it's hot. And if any more context is needed, let me know.
> This is what I have so far:
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さはちひろを飲みました。
> （さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさちひろをのみました。）
> 
> or
> 
> 三度、ちひろは大きい海の上を飛ぼうとしましたが、いずれも溶岩の暑さ*で*ちひろ*は*飲み込まれました。
> （さんど、ちひろはおおきいうみのうえをたぼうとしましたが、いずれもようがんのあつさでちひろはのみこまれました。）
> 
> I'm also not sure about the two particles that I marked. I'm not very familiar with the form I used to conjugate 飲み込む (the passive form?), so I'm not certain that I'm using it correctly. Also, 飲まれました might be more appropriate.
> 
> If anyone knows of any better / more natural ways of saying this, please let me know. I welcome any suggestions.



   In the case posted above, I would say 呑む　or のむ is rather appropriate to the context, instead of 飲む.

  The pronunciation of 飲む and呑む are same, but the definition of the two words are NOT quite same. 飲む is used when drinking a beverage or something drinkable. On the other hand, the basic idea of 呑む is "to swallow a solid substance or catch a breath", and it has a figurative meaning besides.

呑む：
  a)   to swallow a solid substance or catch (a breath)
蛇は卵を呑んだ(呑み込んだ)。The snake swallowed the egg.
私は驚いて息を呑んだ。I caught my breath in surprise.

  b)   to accept or agree by being overawed or being forced into a corner.
条件を呑むか、それとも刑務所に行くか、それは厳しい決断です。To swallow the conditions, or to go to a jail, it is a tough decision. 

  c)  to overwhelm an opponent by a determined attitude
その柔道選手は相手を呑む気迫があった。The Judo athlete has the determined attitude overwhelming his opponent. 
気迫（きはく）: aura of a strong determination

There are a few exceptions, e.g. in case of alcoholic drinks, it is that, practically, 飲む、呑む　or のむ　are used.

Passive form for your reference:
呑まれる: 
  a) to be swallowed by a larger-sized substance
彼は波に呑まれた。He was swept off by big waves.　 

  b)　to lose oneself by being absorbed overly in something
彼は酒に呑まれた。He lost himself by drinking too much.  

  c)to be overwhelmed by the presence of a stronger opponent or something magnificent.
雰囲気に呑まれて彼はとても大人しくなった。Being overwhelmed by the large audience, he became very quiet.


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