# EN: fanaticism - plural ?



## Descarreaux

Hi

Shall we say: «...all fanaticism.» or «...all fanaticisms.»?

Thank you in advance.


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## Kiwipro

fanaticism


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## Neige de Novembre

_Fanaticism_ is an uncount noun. You can't put it in the plural. But you could say, for instance, _different forms of fanaticism._


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## akaAJ

Yes you can.  Various criticisms, narcissisms, fascisms.  Of course, different forms of X works too.


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## Neige de Novembre

akaAJ said:


> Yes you can. Various criticisms, narcissisms, fascisms. Of course, different forms of X works too.


Please, _éclairez ma lanterne_. I knew that _criticism_ was a variable noun, but i'm really surprised that it should also be the case with _fanaticism _and _fascism. _All the dictionaries i've consulted list them as uncountable nouns. Grr! What next if you can't trust the Cambridge, the Cobuild, the Webster!...


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## akaAJ

My dictionary doesn't give a plural form for any noun when it is standard [namely "s"]. Perhaps these forms are modernisms introduced in literary criticism.


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## Hermione Golightly

> Please, _éclairez ma lanterne_. I knew that _criticism_ was a variable noun, but i'm really surprised that it should also be the case with _fanaticism _and _fascism. _All the dictionaries i've consulted list them as uncountable nouns. Grr! What next if you can't trust the Cambridge, the Cobuild, the Webst



I agree that fanaticism and  fascism aren't ever used as variable or countable nouns and therefore can't take a plural 's' form.  I would mark them as wrong!
I would have to use them as adjectives, as in modernist or fascist movements/ideas.
We can talk about a criticism but there's no adjective criticist.It's critical, same with fanatic.

 Modernism is a little less clear to me but still, I find modernisms very strange, certainly  when it's out of any context. My conclusion is that you can't make rules based purely on the ending of a word.


HG


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## mec_américain

I think you can probably make plurals out of just about any noun, since they can be divided into subgroups or other categories.

Milks?  Sure, goat milk, cow milk, sheep milk....

Gasolines?  Yes, regular, super unleaded...Exxon, Mobil, Shell...

Fanaticisms is fine with me; I suspect that it's not very common but I wouldn't consider it less correct.


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## akaAJ

Perhaps with a few witticisms ... ???


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## Neige de Novembre

mec_américain said:


> I think you can probably make plurals out of just about any noun, since they can be divided into subgroups or other categories.
> 
> Milks? Sure, goat milk, cow milk, sheep milk....
> 
> Gasolines? Yes, regular, super unleaded...Exxon, Mobil, Shell...


 
Ok. Still, at the groceries you wouldn't say _I'd like to buy four breads and three milks_, would you?
Although... When my daughters were very young I used to correct them often: _non, ce n'est pas comme ça qu'on dit ça en français,_ _ça ne se dit pas, ce mot n'existe pas, _blah blah blah... And they would invariably reply, _Ça doit se dire parce qu'on vient justement de le dire_... "This word _must _exist because we've just pronounced it!"
It all boils down to usage, i guess. If one person uses _fanaticisms_, it's a mistake; if five million agree it's correct, it becomes the norm...


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## akaAJ

No, but in a convenience store USE standard would be "I'll have three coffee*s *", meaning three containers of brewed coffee.  As many have said, English is much more flexible than French.  And "fascism*s*" is not out of the question (see gasolines above), as a shorter form of "three kinds of fascism": German, Italian, and Spanish (I.e., there were at least three different fascisms).


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## Neige de Novembre

Point taken! Thanks!


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## mec_américain

Neige de Novembre said:


> Ok. Still, at the groceries you wouldn't say _I'd like to buy four breads and three milks_, would you?



I think it depends a lot on the context.  For example if I were making a dish that required wheat, rye, pumpernickel, and white, I might say I need four breads.  And I've had pastel tres leches (IIRC that's what the Hispanics call it)---three milks cake.

I think there's more latitude for abstract nouns, actually.  "Fanaticisms" could include bombing abortion clinics, shutting down highways, rallying at parades and burning effigies, etc., or it could be broader subgroups or their doctrines.  But calling them collectively "fanaticism" is okay, too.


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## geostan

Many of the plural suggestions made by posters would never occur to me. I would use a word like _type, brand, kind_ and put them into the plural. 

e.g. _different grades of gasoline, different kinds of bread, different forms of fanaticism_.


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