# une chipie



## williamtmiller

Bonjour,

Est-ce que quelqu'un voit un bon mot en anglais pour une chipie? WordReference donne "cow" qui pour moi ne convient pas du tout. Autres idées? Merci!


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## fetchezlavache

brat ?


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## Gil

Is "vixen" the right size?


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

How about 'shrew' ?


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## Benjy

ben, selon le petit robert chipie veut dire soit une femme dificile à vire ou bien une petite fille qui aime bien agacer tout le monde.. donc le mot approprié ca dépend du context...  pour ma part je croyais que chipie designait toujour cette petite fille agacante. donc j'aurais dit brat moi aussi


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## semiller

I would agree with Benji.  Here in the U. S. we'd say brat as well.  I teach school, and I hate to admit, but there are too many little brats here and there.


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## fetchezlavache

Jean-Michel Carrère said:
			
		

> How about 'shrew' ?


i don't think so. shrew doesn't convey the mischievious aspect of 'chipie'. shrew is more of a mégère than a chipie


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## Gil

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> i don't think so. shrew doesn't convey the mischievious aspect of 'chipie'. shrew is more of a mégère than a chipie


D'accord.
But could WILLIAMTMILLER tell us how old is his "chipie".  Is she a cute little brat or an old whitch?


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## Jabote

Gil said:
			
		

> D'accord.
> But could WILLIAMTMILLER tell us _*how old his "chipie" is*_. Is she a cute little brat or an old _*witch*_?


 
Tu as les mains pleines de pouces aujourd'hui Gil, ou quoi ???


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## zinc

Actually, I think "vixen" may be the closest we have in English to "chipie", in the UK at least. It can be used for a girl ("that little vixen") or a woman ("that scheming vixen"). It conveys cunning, untrustworthiness and disrespect for others. It's not a very common expression in everyday life, unlike "cow" or the even less complimentary "slapper" but could be used effectively in the second person, if that was the original intent.


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## Jabote

zinc said:
			
		

> Actually, I think "vixen" may be the closest we have in English to "chipie", in the UK at least. It can be used for a girl ("that little vixen") or a woman ("that scheming vixen"). It conveys cunning, untrustworthiness and disrespect for others. It's not a very common expression in everyday life, unlike "cow" or the even less complimentary "slapper" but could be used effectively in the second person, if that was the original intent.


 
I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.


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## Cath.S.

Jabote said:
			
		

> I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.


Tout à fait d'accord, chère Jabote. Traduisons des mots, lorsqu'ils sont essentiels à l'idée, comme aurait pu dire un autre de mes vieux profs.


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## Gil

Jabote said:
			
		

> I agree on everything you said about vixen, zinc. But chipie when talking about a little girl is not REALLY pejorative, it conveys a notion of cuteness, teasing and mischievousness which is not at all present in "vixen". Hence I think the best translation is brat.


Anyway, "vixen" has such an interesting story that it should be used:

 Vixen, finally, represents the southern pronunciation of a word that goes back to Old English fyxe, the feminine of fox. It was formed by a change in the root vowel of fox and the addition of a suffix -e or -en. Besides being one of the rare southern English dialect forms to have come into standard English, vixen is also the only survival of this type of feminine noun in the modern language.


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## Douglas

williamtmiller said:
			
		

> Bonjour,
> 
> Est-ce que quelqu'un voit un bon mot en anglais pour une chipie? WordReference donne "cow" qui pour moi ne convient pas du tout. Autres idées? Merci!


 
I just looked it up on the online dictionary. A synonyme for chipie is "mégère for which the dictionary gives: battle-axe and spitfire. I presume cow might be the literal meaning.

By the way this site is educative. It makes u think, and if u don't you're reminded!!


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## Gil

egueule said:
			
		

> Tout à fait d'accord, chère Jabote. Traduisons des mots, lorsqu'ils sont essentiels à l'idée, comme aurait pu dire un autre de mes vieux profs.


Tout à fait en désaccord.  Chez nous, pour paraphraser Mme de Beauvoir, les petites filles ne naissent pas chipies.  Elles le deviennent et doivent y mettre l'effort.  
Il pourra m'arriver que je traite mes petites filles affectueusement de "chipies" mais ce sera en sachant que la définition qu'en donne le Petit Larousse ne vise pas les petites filles.


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## Nico5992

Douglas said:
			
		

> I just looked it up on the online dictionary. A synonyme for chipie is "mégère for which the dictionary gives: battle-axe and spitfire. I presume cow might be the literal meaning.
> 
> By the way this site is educative. It makes u think, and if u don't you're reminded!!


To me, "mégère" isn't a synonym for "chipie" since "chipie" generally refers to a little girl while "mégère" is rather used for old women.


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## Jabote

Gil said:
			
		

> Tout à fait en désaccord. Chez nous, pour paraphraser Mme de Beauvoir, les petites filles ne naissent pas chipies. Elles le deviennent et doivent y mettre l'effort.
> Il pourra m'arriver que je traite mes petites filles affectueusement de "chipies" mais ce sera en sachant que la définition qu'en donne le Petit Larousse ne vise pas les petites filles.


 
C'est exactement ce que je voulais dire, merci Gil !


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## Jabote

Une petite fille chipie est une petite fille espiègle et taquine et qui te fait enrager. Chipie pour une petite fille est synonyme de coquine (dans le bons sens du terme s'entend...).

Une mégère est une femme méchante, vipère, agressive et hargneuse, en un mot haïssable... et de plus de préférence grosse laide et vieille... un vrai remède contre l'amour donc, comme aurait dit mon père....

Pas grand chose de commun entre les deux, parce que la mégère n'a rien d'amusant ni d'attachant...


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## fetchezlavache

i note however, to my great dismay, that atilf's definition of chipie is not at all how we all understand it in this thread, and is actually very close to 'mégère'. so i have to assume the meaning has evolved..


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## Jabote

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> i note however, to my great dismay, that atilf's definition of chipie is not at all how we all understand it in this thread, and is actually very close to 'mégère'. so i have to assume the meaning has evolved..


 
Well then let's hope that all the presently little chipies will not all evolve into mégères...


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## RODGER

Ok, but there's an idea of "cheeky" in "chipie" isn't there ? A brat is just a pain in the butt. So......."cheeky (little) brat"!! 

Rodger


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## williamtmiller

The evolution of this thread explains why I asked the question in the first place. My wife is French and she told me that chipie was not really pejorative because I too had suggested brat but this word is too negative apparently for a chipie. It does not seem like we have come to any conclusions either? The evolution of the word chipie has perhaps left behind the english translation.


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## RODGER

Nope, it ain't evolution, nothing's untranslatable. We can tone it down to "cheeky little thing/miss  or "she's a little miss" we're getting closer i think !

Rodger


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## RODGER

No, I've got it I think. Lunchtime brings inspiration. You'd say "the little madam !"

Rodger


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## Gil

RODGER said:
			
		

> No, I've got it I think. Lunchtime brings inspiration. You'd say "the little madam !"
> 
> Rodger


Nice try.    But I don't it would cover all "chipie" situations, ages and sizes:
chipie [Gipi] n.*f.  

? chipi 1821; p.-ê. de chiper et 1.*pie*  

¨*Femme acariâtre*, difficile à vivre. Þ chameau, mégère. C'est une vraie chipie. ?*Appellatif Sale chipie!  
*Petite fille qui aime à narguer.

I guess we will have to accept more than one possible translation, according to context.


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## RODGER

Well for the older lady , I agree, we have to open "la boîte à gifles" and plumb the depths of misogyny, so look out, some of this won't please everybody all of the time.

"an awkward bitch" (but looking at "chiper" and "pie" could give "a gold digger") then again "a right madam" " a cheeky piece" "a saucy baggage" (bit obsolete) " a right pain in the neck/arse" I don't think we're quite into "rompe-balle" territory here but almost, and finally, oh yes "a brazen hussey" ! Now I'd better get out before the feminist press release the pit bulls !

Rodger


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## RODGER

Oh, and for "sale chipie" try "a brass-necked slag"

I'm outa here

Rodger


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## Benjy

RODGER said:
			
		

> Oh, and for "sale chipie" try "a brass-necked slag"
> 
> I'm outa here
> 
> Rodger



hmm dont want to be irrataing but dont you think that brass necked slag is a little harsh? i mean, i could have misunderstood definition of any one of the words in this thread, but i didnt think chipie implied that the women in question was "loose" as such. brass-necked maybe (i love the image ) but i wouldn't have said slag :/


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## RODGER

Yes , I did hesitate, but we do have "sale chipie" to translate ! Maybe "brass necked slapper" though I'm not quite sure what slapper means, the trouble is there is a wide range here between the the "woman who is difficult to live with" (very correct description) the "chameau" or "cow" I suppose, the shrew and this "sale" person. I don't think "sale" is as strong in French as it is in English, we'd have to wait for a French native speaker to say, it could be just "bloody... someone. Certainly for the "older" chipie she's begionning to look more like a "garce" to me !

cheers

Rodger


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## perthcb

there is a french song called ta douleur by Camille- there is a line that goes, " Sale chipie de petite soeur " and the english translation is "Bitch of small sister salts". i know it sounds quirky but it really is a good song! anyway i dont know if that is helpful or not!


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## french4beth

How about 'biddy' or 'busybody' (this has the more _gossipy_ element though) or 'old bag' ?


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## emma42

rodger beat me to it!  I was going to say "Madam".

*Little madam* for a little girl
*And little madam/right little madam/madam/proper madam *for a woman?


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## french4beth

Very interesting - I learn something new every day!


			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> *Little madam* for a little girlquote]
> In American English, you could say "little miss thing" (in American English, a 'madam' is the woman who herds around her prostitutes, so I'd be careful using this term on this side of the pond  ).


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## zam

In modern parlance, and in the vast majority of cases, 'chipie' means a 'waggish/impish/facetious/jokey' sort of person. 
It is effectively the feminine equivalent of 'a lovable rogue', but as there aren't many terms for females that show iffy behaviour in a favourable light, it is not easy to find a satisfactory translation. 
I suggest a 'lovable roguette'  !


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## zam

And of course, who could forget the iconic song 'Chipie' -not !-  by Gotainer, with its superbly crafted lyrics...
http://www.bide-et-musique.com/song/631.html


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## shoepergirl

feel free to object but i feel that MINX is the best interpretation in english. 

'petite chipie' --> 'little minx'

that's as perfect as the interpretation gets imho


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## zinc

I still go with "vixen", although Rodger's (where are you Rodger ?) "Madam" and Fechezlavache's (where are you F-l-V ?) "brat" are still good.


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## shoepergirl

sure, but the dictionary says that a minx is 'a pert, impudent, or flirtatious girl' so i feel that would be fitting to a tee,  no?


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## wildan1

zinc said:


> I still go with "vixen", although Rodger's (where are you Rodger ?) "Madam" and Fechezlavache's (where are you F-l-V ?) "brat" are still good.


 
In AE _vixen _is a sexy and attractive woman, just a synonym for a (female) _fox_--completely the opposite of _vieille chipie. _

I would have to say most people would probably resort to the "b-word," as the media likes to call it: o_ld bitch_

_Little miss thing _is a cute one for _petite chipie. _Or _a smarty-pants._


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## bookishmiss

How about drama queen?


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## ladyjustine

I'm with Shoepergirl. The phrase in English that best describes a cheeky little girl, espiègle rather than méchante, is minx. 

A brat can be both sexes, but is pejorative. Nobody likes brats, whereas minxes are loveable! 

I've not heard vixen in this context for a little girl - a vixen is a foxy lady - so there's something sexual about it to me. Shrew is a great word for a nagging woman, or fishwife.


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## wildan1

shoepergirl said:


> feel free to object but i feel that MINX is the best interpretation in english.
> 
> 'petite chipie' --> 'little minx'


In BE, but in North America I don't believe most people would use or even know this meaning. _Minx_, in my experience, only refers to an adult (sexy, sassy, etc.) and not to a child.


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## orlando09

How about scamp ?


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## ladyjustine

wildan1 said:


> In BE, but in North America I don't believe most people would use or even know this meaning. _Minx_, in my experience, only refers to an adult (sexy, sassy, etc.) and not to a child.



There is the very popular Miss Hanna Minx on Youtube - an American - but yes, she's definitely sexy and sassy. I'm thinking more Minnie the Minx, a British cartoon with a naughty little girl in it. My etymology dictionary says Mynx originally meant young dog! Perception of your audience is everything! 

What about 'little imp?' Impish is a great word!


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## Pat the Polyglot

It may help to know the origin of _chipie_ is the French word _chiper_ (to bait).  Bait can be attractive but is deceitful and a trap, and ultimately is used for another's harm or demise.  A good example of the use of _chipie _is in Michel Maniere's adaption of _La Belle et La Bete _(Beauty in the Beast) where Belle's sisters are described as _chipies_.  The sisters mock Belle because they are jealous of her beauty (both inside and out).  In addition, they ask Belle to stay home under the pretense that she will be sorely missed, but in reality they hope that the Beast will devour her if she does not return to his castle.


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