# Yī fèn with chǎo fàn, et cetera?



## BreannaD-K

If I were ordering the following foods at a restaurant, would the correct measure word be yī fèn?

chǎo fàn
Běijīng kǎo yā
chòu dòufu
chǎo miàn
gōng bǎo jī dīng
má pó dòufu
chā shāo
zhá jiàng miàn


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## SimonTsai

炒飯, 北京烤鴨, 臭豆腐, 炒麵, 宮保雞丁, 麻婆豆腐, 叉燒, 炸醬麵.

Yes, the measure word 一份 works. But other measure words are also possible. (For example, 一盤炒飯 and 一碗炸醬麵.)


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## BreannaD-K

I'm sorry to say that I can't understand anything you've written in actual characters. 😞 On another note, what about the following measure word/food pairs?

yī gè ròu jiā mó
yī gè cōng yóu bǐng (or maybe yī pán?)
yī gè bāozi
yī gè xiǎo lóng bāo (or maybe yī wǎn?)


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## Jake_Chan

BreannaD-K said:


> If I were ordering the following foods at a restaurant, would the correct measure word be yī fèn?
> 
> chǎo fàn
> Běijīng kǎo yā
> chòu dòufu
> chǎo miàn
> gōng bǎo jī dīng
> má pó dòufu
> chā shāo
> zhá jiàng miàn


Yes. yī fèn means an order of sth.


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## Jake_Chan

*yī gè* ròu jiā mó = *one* ròu jiā mó
*yī gè* cōng yóu bǐng = *one* cōng yóu bǐng
*yī pán* yóu bǐng = *a plate of* cōng yóu bǐng
*yī gè* bāozi = *one* bāozi
*yī gè* xiǎo lóng bāo = *one* xiǎo lóng bāo




*yī wǎn* xiǎo lóng bāo = *a bowl of* xiǎo lóng bāo

Please note that xiǎo lóng bāo are usually put in *bamboo baskets, *as can be seen below.






*Bamboo* *baskets* are called: *竹笼*

*笼* is pronounced *lóng*. As you can see, the name 'xiǎo *lóng* bāo' is derived from bamboo baskets.


[*yī fèn *xiǎo lóng bāo] is better than [*yī wǎn* xiǎo lóng bāo].


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## BreannaD-K

Awesome! Thank you all so much!


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## Babylonba

You are wrong on the pitches, believe me, I'm a Beijinger.
If you said "一份(Yi1 Fen4)", everybody would know you were a foreign friend.
At first, the right pronounce is "一份(Yi2 Fen4)" "一个(Yi2 Ge4)" and "一盘(Yi4 Pan2)"
At second, the native speaking is "一份儿" and "一盘儿", you'd better add the "儿" especially after the word "份", since the "粪" has the same voice as "Fen4", you know what that means, of course, that's disgusting when eating something.


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## SimonTsai

Babylonba said:


> At second, the native speaking is "一份儿" and "一盘儿",


I think that's typical only of the Northern people and is not of we Taiwanese.


> At first, the right pronounce is [...] "一个(Yi2 Ge4)"


I'd say that both the first tone 一 and the second tone 一 are possible, actually.

Personally, I'd pronounce the 個 with the neutral tone, almost always. So would people around me.


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## Babylonba

SimonTsai said:


> I think that's typical only of the Northern people and is not of we Taiwanese.
> 
> I'd say that both the first tone 一 and the second tone 一 are possible, actually.
> 
> Personally, I'd pronounce the 個 with the neutral tone, almost always. So would people around me.


I really like your Taiwanese tone than Beijing tone, that's so cute and euphonic, but I can't speak like that here in Beijing.
You are right but nobody will says "Yi1" within these phrase like "一天Yi4 一张Yi4 一马平川Yi4", only few groups will be said like "一来二去Yi1". 
The Neutral tone(轻声) is the fifth tone, I describe it as "Yi0" which could come from the "Yi1,2,3,4" but doesn't belong to anyone of them.


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## SuperXW

SimonTsai said:


> I think that's typical only of the Northern people and is not of we Taiwanese.
> 
> I'd say that both the first tone 一 and the second tone 一 are possible, actually.
> 
> Personally, I'd pronounce the 個 with the neutral tone, almost always. So would people around me.





Babylonba said:


> I really like your Taiwanese tone than Beijing tone, that's so cute and euphonic, but I can't speak like that here in Beijing.
> You are right but nobody will says "Yi1" within these phrase like "一天Yi4 一张Yi4 一马平川Yi4", only few groups will be said like "一来二去Yi1".
> The Neutral tone(轻声) is the fifth tone, I describe it as "Yi0" which could come from the "Yi1,2,3,4" but doesn't belong to anyone of them.



1. Er-ization (儿化) is a feature of Northern dialects (including Beijing accent), but it is common and acceptable that many Chinese, especially Southern people, rarely use it. 

2. The tone sandhi of yi（一）is important for mastering native accent.
General rules:
for pure numerals (without classifier), yi1;
otherwise,
before 1st, 2nd, 3rd tone: yi4;
before 4th, light tone: yi2.



Jake_Chan said:


> *yī gè* ròu jiā mó = *one* ròu jiā mó
> *yī gè* cōng yóu bǐng = *one* cōng yóu bǐng
> *yī pán* yóu bǐng = *a plate of* cōng yóu bǐng
> *yī gè* bāozi = *one* bāozi
> *yī gè* xiǎo lóng bāo = *one* xiǎo lóng bāo
> *yī wǎn* xiǎo lóng bāo = *a bowl of* xiǎo lóng bāo
> [*yī fèn *xiǎo lóng bāo] is better than [*yī wǎn* xiǎo lóng bāo].





SimonTsai said:


> I'd say that both the first tone 一 and the second tone 一 are possible, actually.



So I'm surprised that yī (yi1) is possible in your mind.


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## Jake_Chan

SuperXW said:


> So I'm surprised that yī (yi1) is possible in your mind.


I guess the reason why yī exists in my mind is that I hear people saying it on a regular basis. 

It reminds me of the words: will and be going to. English grammar books draw a clear distinction between will and be going to. But in daily life, they are usually interchangeable.


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## SuperXW

Jake_Chan said:


> I guess the reason why yī exists in my mind is that I hear people saying it on a regular basis.


May I ask in which region? Canton?


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## Jake_Chan

SuperXW said:


> May I ask in which region? Canton?


Yes, Canton. Come to think of it, my colleagues/friends from other southern cities also say yī.  一天yī and 一张yī sound very natural to me.


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## BreannaD-K

Being totally new to Mandarin, I feel a bit silly for jumping in. At any rate... I had learned about tone sandhi (like with two third tones, yi1, and sometimes bu4), but it's my understanding that it's incorrect to modify the pinyin to reflect these changes. So even when someone pronounces ni2 hao3 or yi2 ge4, they're still written ni3 hao3 and yi1 ge4. Correct?


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## stephenlearner

一 has three tones.

yi1 : 十一、九九归一
yi2: 在四声字前念二声，如“一切、一共”
yi4: 在一声、二声、三声字前念四声，如一团、一堆、一年、一般。


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## stephenlearner

Jake_Chan said:


> 一天yī and 一张yī sound very natural to me.


When you say 一天 两天 三天, use yi1 for 一. 
In the same manner, when you say 一张 两张 三张, use yi1 for 一. 

However, if you say 一天 有个朋友来找我, use yi4. 
If you say 这房子里就一张桌子，use yi4. 

I'd think yi4 is for emphasis.


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## SuperXW

stephenlearner said:


> When you say 一天 两天 三天, use yi1 for 一.
> In the same manner, when you say 一张 两张 三张, use yi1 for 一.
> 
> However, if you say 一天 有个朋友来找我, use yi4.
> If you say 这房子里就一张桌子，use yi4.
> 
> I'd think yi4 is for emphasis.


I didn't know that so many people would say yi1天, yi1张, etc.
Even in your first case.
The meanings are identical in two cases.
I think the standard (e.g. for 普通话水平测试, news reporters) requires yi4, and is not for emphasis.


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## SuperXW

BreannaD-K said:


> Being totally new to Mandarin, I feel a bit silly for jumping in. At any rate... I had learned about tone sandhi (like with two third tones, yi1, and sometimes bu4), but it's my understanding that it's incorrect to modify the pinyin to reflect these changes. So even when someone pronounces ni2 hao3 or yi2 ge4, they're still written ni3 hao3 and yi1 ge4. Correct?


Correct. 
We were debating about the actual pronunciation, not the written standard.


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## benjamin zhong

Babylonba said:


> You are wrong on the pitches, believe me, I'm a Beijinger.
> If you said "一份(Yi1 Fen4)", everybody would know you were a foreign friend.
> At first, the right pronounce is "一份(Yi2 Fen4)" "一个(Yi2 Ge4)" and "一盘(Yi4 Pan2)"
> At second, the native speaking is "一份儿" and "一盘儿", you'd better add the "儿" especially after the word "份", since the "粪" has the same voice as "Fen4", you know what that means, of course, that's disgusting when eating something.


北京话不等于普通话。发音儿化确实是北京味，但不能说，不儿化的音就不是native。中国大部分人说的普通话都不儿化，我们不能说他们不是母语者。


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