# Hindi, Urdu: kachrah کچره



## aisha93

Hello

This is a word used in Bahrain and Kuwait and probably other Gulf countries to describe something of poor quality
Usually for objects like machines, furniture or the like
It is sometimes used to describe performance or service as well

It is only used in spoken language and is written as كجرة in informal writings and pronounced (کَچْرَه) > the راء is of course  مفخمة, which is the case for almost all words in Gulf dialects, even words of non-Arabic origin

I highly suspect that this word comes from Hindi because I couldn't find it in Persian Loghatnameh and I don't think it is a mispronunciation of any English word

So does such a word or similar one exist in Hindi? If yes then can you tell its original meaning please?

Thanks


----------



## Chhaatr

Well _kachRaa_ (کچڑا) and _kuuRaa_ (کوڑا) are used to mean garbage in Hindi. For poor quality equipment too people informally use these words.


----------



## Faylasoof

aisha93 said:


> Hello
> 
> This is a word used in Bahrain and Kuwait and probably other Gulf countries to describe something of poor quality
> Usually for objects like machines, furniture or the like
> It is sometimes used to describe performance or service as well
> 
> It is only used in spoken language and is written as كجرة in informal writings and pronounced (کَچْرَه) > the راء is of course  مفخمة, which is the case for almost all words in Gulf dialects, even words of non-Arabic origin
> 
> I highly suspect that this word comes from Hindi because I couldn't find it in Persian Loghatnameh and I don't think it is a mispronunciation of any English word
> 
> So does such a word or similar one exist in Hindi? If yes then can you tell its original meaning please?
> 
> Thanks


 I have heard کَچْرَه used by non-native Urduphones to mean the same that in Urdu is:
کُوڑا *kuuRaa* / کوڑا کرکٹ* kuuRaa karkaT */ رَدّی *raddii */ کَباڑ *kabaaR* = rubbish / garbage etc.

 فَضُول اشيا *fuDhuul ashyaa* = useless items / cheap stuff that is liable to become useless in no time etc. [sing. _*fuDhuul shae*_ / _*fuDhuul chiiz*_]
نا کارآمد _*naa kaar-aamad*_ = useless thing / of no benefit

There is however کچرا _*kachraa*_ in Urdu, meaning unripe fruit = کچّا پھل _*kachchaa phal*_ !

...and there is also کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ = useless, used by some Urduphones to mean exactly what you are describing above (poor quality item) - not to be confused with _*khichRaa*_ (_Haliim_), a very tasty dish.


----------



## marrish

I have heard _kachraa_ for the same from native Urduphones but for me it sounds rustic.


----------



## littlepond

A common word in Hindi and many other Indian languages, "kachraa" means garbage, rubbish and so on. It used to be a noun but is also an adjective these days for something of worthless quality: and indeed that's the word you are hearing around you, Aisha!


----------



## Alfaaz

Here is _kachraa_ in Platts (in the sense mentioned by Faylasoof SaaHib above):


> H کچرا कचरा _kaćrā_ [prob. S. कर्चूरकः], s.m. The _Curcuma zerumbet_; also _C. pubescens_:—a small unripe melon (_ḵẖarbuzala_);—a pod of cotton.


 Here it is in the other sense: 


> H کچرا कचरा _kaćrā_ [prob. S. कद्+चर+कः], s.m. Clay; mire, dirt, rubbish, sweepings, bits of strawʼ, &c.; fragments; residuum, sediment, lees.


Entry from Urdu Lughat: 


> 1. کوڑا کرکٹ، بیکار چیزوں، ناکارہ چیزوں کا ڈھیر۔
> _trash/garbage; unnecessary/useless things; a pile/heap of useless/broken items
> _2. کچا خربوزہ، کچا پھل۔
> _raw/unripe melon, raw/unripe fruit
> _3. (مزاحا } بچے کا پھولا ہوا پیٹ۔ (جامع اللغات؛ فرہنگ آصفیہ }
> _a child's bloated stomach
> _4. (کپاس کا ڈوڈا۔ (فرہنگ آصفیہ؛ نوراللغات
> _pod of cotton__
> _5. پٹرول میں ملاوٹ یا انجن کی صفائی نہ ہونے کے سبب) انجن میں جمع ہونے والا میل یا چیکٹ۔
> _sediment/residue in an engine (due to the presence of sediment in oil and/or petrol)_


It seems that کچرا _kachraa_ is used a lot with the first and fifth meanings, in addition to all the other words.


----------



## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> Well _kachRaa_ (کچڑا) and _kuuRaa_ (کوڑا) are used to mean garbage in Hindi. For poor quality equipment too people informally use these words.


I am curious about the R in your kachRaa. I have always heard it as kachraa and same goes for the written word.

In my childhood, a "kachraa" (in Punjabi) was an unripe melon and many such "kachre" never reached maturity and became victims of untimely "death" through the hands of young boys!

The dominant meaning in Urdu nowadays seems to be as Alfaaz SaaHib has indicated.


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I have heard _kachraa_ for the same from native Urduphones but for me it sounds rustic.


A collection of short stories by MuHyiddin Navaab is entitled "kachraa-ghar". He was born in 1930 in Bengal and was an Urdu speaking Bengali.

http://urdudigest.pk/2013/02/mahiy-ud-din-nawab

I have found the following example from an Urdu translation of the Bible.I am not 100%
certain but I believe the translator is Mirza Muhammad Fitrat from the Fort William College hailing from Lucknow. I have sent an e-mail to Biblesos. Hopefully, I'll get a reply from them. 

یہاں تک کہ میں کچرے کی ڈھیر پر ایک خشک چمڑ ے کی مشکیز ہ کی مانند ہوں، تب بھی میں تیرے شریعت کو نہیں بھو لو نگا ۔


----------



## Chhaatr

Qureshpor said:


> I am curious about the R in your kachRaa. I have always heard it as kachraa and same goes for the written word.



QP SaaHib, for me it has always been _kachRaa (कचड़ा) _and the usage is pretty common in Hindi_._


----------



## littlepond

^ This Hindi speaker, Chhatr jii, has never used, read or heard _kachRaa_ in his life; it's always been _kachraa_ in his experience.


----------



## Chhaatr

^ littlepond jii noted you do not use _kachRaa_ and have also not read it.

Please do check out below link.

http://navbharattimes.indiatimes.co...t-slams-delhi-police/articleshow/20176510.cms


----------



## marrish

So far we know this noun is used in Hindi (both _kachRaa_ and _kachraa_) and in Urdu (_kachraa_). As far as Urdu is concerned it is used by non-native speakers as heard by F. SaaHib while I have heard it by native ones. Further written references as per QP SaaHib's contribution attest its to it. My previous comment has my subjective impression but the main point was to say it is bona fide Urdu, also in the meaning of ''dirt, garbage''.

Apparently the word has not only various pronunciations/spelling in Hindi and Urdu but also different etymologies for those meanings, cf. the quotes from Platts.

Since Platts was not sure of it, the modern studies tell us this:

Turner:*karcūra* 2828 _karcūra ʻ *yellow ʼ, m. ʻ turmeric ʼ lex., n. ʻ an orpiment ʼ Śiś., ʻ gold ʼ lex., °aka -- m. ʻ turmeric ʼ lex._[...]*H. kacūr, °rā, kacrā m. ʻ zedoary plant or root ʼ, kacrī, kacarī, °riyā f. ʻ id., a small green and yellow striped melon *[...]​
*kaccara* 2615 _kaccara ʻ dirty, vile ʼ lex. [...]_ *H. kacrā, kaclā* m. ʻ sweepings, dirt, clay ʼ;
​
There is also Hindi Shabdasaagara:

कचरा संज्ञा पुं० *[हिं० कच्चा] *१. कच्चा खरबूजा । २. फूट का कच्चा फल । ककड़ी ।..._kachraa s.m. *[H. kachchaa]* 1. kachchaa xarbuuzaa. 2. phuuT kaa kachchaa phal. kakRii._...​... that suggests the connection with _kachchaa_ for the meaning ''unripe fruit''.


The second reference from Turner points out to two phonetic alternations (in the meaning discussed in the OP): _kach*r*aa_ and _kach*l*aa_! but we already know that there is _kach*R*aa_ too as a variant and my Hindi lexicon mentions all the three forms. After all, it is not the first instance of r-R-l fluctuation, there are many of them.


----------



## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> So far we know this noun is used in Hindi (both _kachRaa_ and _kachraa_) and in Urdu (_kachraa_). As far as Urdu is concerned it is used by non-native speakers as heard by F. SaaHib while I have heard it by native ones. Further written references as per QP SaaHib's contribution attest its to it. My previous comment has my subjective impression but the main point was to say it is bona fide Urdu, also in the meaning of ''dirt, garbage''.
> 
> Apparently the word has not only various pronunciations/spelling in Hindi and Urdu but also different etymologies for those meanings, cf. the quotes from Platts.
> 
> Since Platts was not sure of it, the modern studies tell us this:
> 
> Turner:*karcūra* 2828 _karcūra ʻ *yellow ʼ, m. ʻ turmeric ʼ lex., n. ʻ an orpiment ʼ Śiś., ʻ gold ʼ lex., °aka -- m. ʻ turmeric ʼ lex._[...]*H. kacūr, °rā, kacrā m. ʻ zedoary plant or root ʼ, kacrī, kacarī, °riyā f. ʻ id., a small green and yellow striped melon *[...]​
> *kaccara* 2615 _kaccara ʻ dirty, vile ʼ lex. [...]_ *H. kacrā, kaclā* m. ʻ sweepings, dirt, clay ʼ;
> ​
> There is also Hindi Shabdasaagara:कचरा संज्ञा पुं० *[हिं० कच्चा] *१. कच्चा खरबूजा । २. फूट का कच्चा फल । ककड़ी ।..._kachraa s.m. *[H. kachchaa]* 1. kachchaa xarbuuzaa. 2. phuuT kaa kachchaa phal. kakRii._...​... that suggests the connection with _kachchaa_ for the meaning ''unripe fruit''.
> 
> 
> The second reference from Turner points out to two phonetic alternations (in the meaning discussed in the OP): _kach*r*aa_ and _kach*l*aa_! but we already know that there is _kach*R*aa_ too as a variant and my Hindi lexicon mentions all the three forms. After all, it is not the first instance of r-R-l fluctuation, there are many of them.


 Well, native Urdu speakers would also start using kachrah کَچْرَه (to mean rubbish) if surrounded non-native speakers as is now common given the diaspora of Urduphones but its use is not considered good Urdu by at least some of us.

A similar sounding but distinct word is khachRaa to mean useless, no good etc., as I mentioned earlier (underlined below),


Faylasoof said:


> I have heard کَچْرَه used by non-native Urduphones to mean the same that in Urdu is:
> کُوڑا *kuuRaa* / کوڑا کرکٹ* kuuRaa karkaT */ رَدّی *raddii */ کَباڑ *kabaaR* = rubbish / garbage etc.
> 
> فَضُول اشيا *fuDhuul ashyaa* = useless items / cheap stuff that is liable to become useless in no time etc. [sing. _*fuDhuul shae*_ / _*fuDhuul chiiz*_]
> نا کارآمد _*naa kaar-aamad*_ = useless thing / of no benefit
> 
> There is however کچرا _*kachraa*_ in Urdu, meaning unripe fruit = کچّا پھل _*kachchaa phal*_ !
> 
> ...and there is also کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ = useless, used by some Urduphones to mean exactly what you are describing above (poor quality item) - not to be confused with _*khichRaa*_ (_Haliim_), a very tasty dish.


 The word  کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ [and_* not *__*khichRaa*_ (= _Haliim_) which we all us] also seems to be used by some native Urdu speakers though it might be considered more a slang by others


----------



## littlepond

Faylasoof said:


> Well, native Urdu speakers would also start using kachrah کَچْرَه (to mean rubbish) if surrounded non-native speakers as is now common given the diaspora of Urduphones but its use is not considered good Urdu by at least some of us.



It may very well be that _khachRaa_ is just _ghalat-ul-a'am _standardised through usage and listings in a few dictionaries. After all, _kachraa_ has been existing in not just Hindi but several languages to mean rubbish, and Urdu is an Indic product, a child of these languages.


----------



## Wolverine9

^ Very true!



Faylasoof said:


> A similar sounding but distinct word is khachRaa to mean useless, no good etc., as I mentioned earlier (underlined below),
> The word  کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ [and_* not *__*khichRaa*_ (= _Haliim_) which we all us] also seems to be used by some native Urdu speakers though it might be considered more a slang by others



Besides _khachRaa_, there is also _khachraa_, the literal meaning of which is 'hybrid, mixed parentage' (derived from _khachchar _'mule'), and by extension 'useless, vile, etc.'


----------



## Faylasoof

littlepond said:


> Faylasoof said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, native Urdu speakers would also start using kachrah کَچْرَه (to mean rubbish) if surrounded non-native speakers as is now common given the diaspora of Urduphones but its use is not considered good Urdu by at least some of us.
> 
> 
> 
> It may very well be that _khachRaa_ is just _ghalat-ul-a'am_ standardised through usage and listings in a few dictionaries. After all, _kachraa_ has been existing in not just Hindi but several languages to mean rubbish, and Urdu is an Indic product, a child of these languages.
Click to expand...

My quote above is for کَچْرَه  _*kachraa *_and not کھچڑا  *kh**achRaa* ! 

_I think you meant to quote this:
_


Faylasoof said:


> A similar sounding but distinct word is khachRaa to mean useless, no good etc., as I mentioned earlier (underlined below),
> The word کھچڑا *kh**a**chRaa* [and *not* *kh**i**chRaa* (= _Haliim_) which we all us] also seems to be used by some native Urdu speakers though it might be considered more a slang by others


_khachRaa  a_ Ghalat-ul-3aam? That is a presumption I think! Besides I never said that it is listed in any Urdu dictionary. Quite the contrary it is not regarded as good Urdu – more a slang. Perhaps a borrowing from another Indic language. _In any case it just isn’t considered good Urdu_!


----------



## Faylasoof

Wolverine9 said:


> ^ Very true!
> 
> 
> Faylasoof said:
> 
> 
> 
> A similar sounding but distinct word is khachRaa to mean useless, no good etc., as I mentioned earlier (underlined below),
> The word کھچڑا *kh**a**chRaa* [and *not* *kh**i**chRaa* (= _Haliim_) which we all us] also seems to be used by some native Urdu speakers though it might be considered more a slang by others
> 
> 
> 
> Besides _khachRaa_, there is also _khachraa_, the literal meaning of which is 'hybrid, mixed parentage' (derived from _khachchar _'mule'), and by extension 'useless, vile, etc.'
Click to expand...

 No, not quite! Assuming you are nodding to the idea of کھچڑا *khachRaa *being Ghalat-ul-3aam! I hope I haven't misunderstood you.
Yes, in Hindi it is *खच्चर* _*khachchar* for a mule. _BTW_, _in Urdu we say* خچر xachchar *​for the same, while *كھچر khachchar* would be _very poor Urdu diction_.


----------



## Wolverine9

Faylasoof said:


> No, not quite! Assuming you are nodding to the idea of کھچڑا *khachRaa *being Ghalat-ul-3aam! I hope I haven't misunderstood you.



I was agreeing with littlepond's second sentence.  In his first sentence, I think he meant to say that _kachraa _(or _kachrah_), meaning 'rubbish', may be Ghalat-ul-3aam in Urdu.




> Yes, in Hindi it is *खच्चर* _*khachchar* for a mule. _BTW_, _in Urdu we say* خچر xachchar *​for the same, while *كھچر khachchar* would be _very poor Urdu diction_.


Yes, in Urdu it is _xachchar_.  For _khachchar _> _khachraa_, I was summarizing Turner (cf. below):

khaccara 3765 **khaccara* ʻ mule ʼ. 2. **kaccara -- 2.* [← (through Psht. _qačara_ or Bal. _xačar_?) a Turk. dial. form such as _qačïr_ ultimately ← Ir. *_xaratara_ --  (cf. IA. khara -- 1) in Sogd. g_rtr_'_k_, Khot. _khaḍara_ W. B. Henning BSOAS xi 723]
1. Paš. dar. _xáčir_, kuṛ. _kačero_ ʻ mule ʼ, S. _khacaru_ m., _°ri_ f., *P. khaccar f. (→ N. khaccar; H. khaccar m. ʻ mule ʼ, khacrā ʻ hybrid, of mixed parentage ʼ;* G. _khaccar_ n. ʻ mule ʼ, M. _khaċar_, _khẽċar_ n.).
2. L. _kaccur_ m., _°cir_ f.


----------



## Faylasoof

^Well I'm not sure what he (littlepond) meant to say but what he said was this:


littlepond said:


> It may very well be that *khachRaa is just **ghalat-ul-a'am standardised through usage and listings in a few dictionaries*. After all, _kachraa_ has been existing in not just Hindi but several languages to mean rubbish, and Urdu is an Indic product, a child of these languages.


 The point is neither *khachRaa* nor *kachraa / kachrah *_(to mean rubbish) are considered good Urdu! So the question of Ghalat-ul-3aam doesn't mean anything! Neither is 3aam (common) in Urdu!

*kachraa *_to mean unripe fruit (_*kachchaa phal*_) is part of our vocabulary, as I stated earlier,



Faylasoof said:


> I have heard کَچْرَه used by non-native Urduphones to mean the same that in Urdu is:
> کُوڑا *kuuRaa* / کوڑا کرکٹ* kuuRaa karkaT */ رَدّی *raddii */ کَباڑ *kabaaR* = rubbish / garbage etc.
> 
> فَضُول اشيا *fuDhuul ashyaa* = useless items / cheap stuff that is liable to become useless in no time etc. [sing. _*fuDhuul shae*_ / _*fuDhuul chiiz*_]
> نا کارآمد _*naa kaar-aamad*_ = useless thing / of no benefit
> 
> There is however کچرا _*kachraa*_ in Urdu, meaning unripe fruit = کچّا پھل _*kachchaa phal*_ !
> 
> ...and there is also کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ = useless, used by some Urduphones to mean exactly what you are describing above (poor quality item) - not to be confused with _*khichRaa*_ (_Haliim_), a very tasty dish.


----------



## littlepond

Faylasoof said:


> ...and there is also کھچڑا _*khachRaa*_ = useless, used by some Urduphones to mean exactly what you are describing above (poor quality item) - not to be confused with _*khichRaa*_ (_Haliim_), a very tasty dish.



I was referring to the above: in which post Faylasoof hasn't mentioned that this is a slang. In post no. 13, again Faylasoof says that it is considered "slang by others" (i.e., not by all). If now Faylasoof says that "khachRaa" isn't considered good Urdu (presumably by all), then it's certainly not a ghalat-ul-3aam. Good to know.


----------



## Faylasoof

littlepond said:


> I was referring to the above: in which post Faylasoof hasn't mentioned that this is a slang. In post no. 13, again Faylasoof says that it is considered "slang by others" (i.e., not by all). If now Faylasoof says that "khachRaa" isn't considered good Urdu (presumably by all), then it's certainly not a ghalat-ul-3aam. Good to know.


^ I don't think we have to go on with this as the point now seems to be clear except:
1) My not referring to the word being "slang" was not necessary since I already indicated that it is used by _some_ Urduphones (i.e. not all) hence it is _not_ standard Urdu. Anything not standard can be considered slang!
2) Given the Urdu diaspora (mentioned by me above) it is inevitable that some Urduphones will use non-standard Urdu words and expression.
3) It is not now that I indicate this to be not good Urdu. Anything slang (post 13) cannot be called good Urdu! 

Thanks for your understanding. Perhaps we can now lay this to rest!


----------



## littlepond

ऐसा मालूम होता है कि "खचड़ा" मगही भाषा, हिन्दी-उर्दू के अनेक स्त्रोतों में एक, में तो ज़रूर विध्य्मान है: यहाँ इस का मतलब "बदमाश" के रूप में किया गया है (खचड़ा गाय: मरखनी गाय, बदमाश गाय)| तो ज़रूरी नहीं कि गाय निरर्थक हो: वह शायद दूध तो देती है, पर मिज़ाज से ज़रा टेढ़ी है| Site के अनुसार यह शब्द "ठेठ मगही" शब्दों में से है, कोई भूल से प्रकट हुआ शब्द नहीं|


----------



## JaiHind

Chhaatr said:


> for me it has always been _kachRaa (कचड़ा) _and the usage is pretty common in Hindi_._



I agree with this. In fact when writing in Devnaagri script we always write कचड़ा and seldom कचरा. The later is considered not so learned use, mostly used informal or by less educated people.


----------



## Wolverine9

^ Are you sure about that?

कचड़ा 12,900 Google search results

कचडा 1,460 results

कचरा 878,000 results

The latter appears to be much more common.  Google books search results also confirm this.


----------



## Faylasoof

littlepond said:


> ऐसा मालूम होता है कि "खचड़ा" मगही भाषा, हिन्दी-उर्दू के अनेक स्त्रोतों में एक, में तो ज़रूर विध्य्मान है: यहाँ इस का मतलब "बदमाश" के रूप में किया गया है (खचड़ा गाय: मरखनी गाय, बदमाश गाय)| तो ज़रूरी नहीं कि गाय निरर्थक हो: वह शायद दूध तो देती है, पर मिज़ाज से ज़रा टेढ़ी है| Site के अनुसार यह शब्द "ठेठ मगही" शब्दों में से है, कोई भूल से प्रकट हुआ शब्द नहीं|


 अच्छा तो खचड़ा  एक मरखनी , बदमाश  और  बदमिज़ाज गाय का मतलब है | बहुत धन्यवाद

Edit: I'm amazed at the way my comment appears in the Hindi script above! I tried correcting it by trying to separate the words using the space bar but to no avail. Please treat the little boxes as space markers between words!


----------



## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> QP SaaHib, for me it has always been _kachRaa (कचड़ा) _and the usage is pretty common in Hindi_._


Thank you. I was n't aware of this word before. I have found examples of its usage on the net in Urdu both as "kachRaa" and "kuuRaa-kachRaa".


----------



## littlepond

Faylasoof said:


> अच्छा तो खचड़ा  एक मरखनी , बदमाश  और  बदमिज़ाज गाय का मतलब है | बहुत धन्यवाद



जी नहीं, गाय ही नहीं: कोई भी बदमाश|


----------



## Chhaatr

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you. I was n't aware of this word before. I have found examples of its usage on the net in Urdu both as "kachRaa" and "kuuRaa-kachRaa".


You are welcome!  You are right there is also "kuuRaa-kachRaa" which I myself use and come across in my day to day interactions.


----------



## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> अच्छा तो खचड़ा  एक मरखनी , बदमाश  और  बदमिज़ाज गाय का मतलब है | बहुत धन्यवाद
> 
> Edit: I'm amazed at the way my comment appears in the Hindi script above! I tried correcting it by trying to separate the words using the space bar but to no avail. Please treat the little boxes as space markers between words!


It's all perfectly clear and correct on my computer. So, worry not, Faylasoof SaaHib.


----------



## Qureshpor

I wonder, just a conjecture, whether the evolution of this word has taken the following path.

khachRaa >> kachRaa >> kachraa...

..in the way perhaps saaRhii has gone to saaRii and saarii.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2515881&highlight=saaRhii

This thread might be a good place for literary quotes, if any exist, for these words.

PS: I wonder what aisha93 has made of the thread so far.


----------



## aisha93

> PS: I wonder what aisha93 has made of the thread so far.



Poor me 
I didn't know this thread would bear this much fruit though most are inedible by me 
But I got the answer to my question anyway
Thanks


----------



## ali4909

Sir i think _kachRaa_ (کچڑا) and _kuuRaa_ (کوڑا) are used to mean garbage in Hindi. For poor quality equipment too people informally use these words.
So does such a word or similar one exist in Hindi? If yes then can you tell its original meaning please?


----------

