# "No touching policy" in schools?



## badgrammar

Okay, I just saw a story about a 13-year old boy who got suspended from school because he put his arm briefly around his frien's shoulders in the lunchroom.  This was a violation of the school's strict "no touching policy", which even prohibits students from shaking hands!  

I can see where in some countries and cultures, it would probably be normal that there be no contact whatsoever, including handshakes, between girls and boys (for example, in some religions the two sexes should never, ever touch, not even briefly, out of wedlock).

However, this is in the state of Virginia, in the U.S., and it applies to all forms of contact, whether with the same or with the opposite sex.   It reminds me of another story a few months back about an American first grader (6 years old) who was accused of making an innapropriate sexual gesture when he hugged one of his teachers.  

Are there rules about touching in schools in your country?  Are they specific to the school setting, or more general societal/cultural rules?  Are these kinds of rules healthy for normal development when they are not culturally shared values?


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## Kajjo

The whole story sounds ridiculous. Surely, no one in his right mind could prohibit shaking hands as means of greeting? No, there are no such things in Germany at all.

Kajjo


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## badgrammar

Seems quite crazy to me too, but the story is all over the internet.  You can google "Virginia school no touching policy", or there is a video on CNN with an interview with the school superintendant. 

No handshakes.  Nope.


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## Etcetera

badgrammar said:


> Are there rules about touching in schools in your country?  Are they specific to the school setting, or more general societal/cultural rules?  Are these kinds of rules healthy for normal development when they are not culturally shared values?


I've never heard about any restrictions of this sort in Russian schools. 
And shoul a school invent something like that, it would be seen as very odd indeed.


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## Drechuin

As far as I know, there's no special rules between children, in France (no more than common sense). Teachers are usually far more careful, since even an innocent move can be misunderstood (far example: don't stay in a room alone with one kid. It's not a rule, but it's something useful to avoid problems).


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## ireney

Either these people are overworked are just plain lazy if you ask me. No, of course there's no such rule in Greece.


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## badgrammar

Then I don't know if it should be chalked up to the U.S.'s over-zealous attitudes towards keeping everything under control, or to the desire to avoid lawsuits.  The explanation given by school officials is that it keeps children from getting rowdy in the halls, and from sexual harassment, and presumably from such pranks as "wedgies".


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## Hotu Matua

May I ask whether this is a religious school, or is this a rule applied to all public schools in Virginia?


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## badgrammar

It's a public Middle school (ages maybe 12-15).  It doesn't seem to be a state-wide policy, just the policy in this school (maybe in the whole school district?).


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## Hotu Matua

Mmm... I guess this is an example of how people are sometimes obsessed by sexual prohibitions, many times promoted, supported or otherwised favoured by the religious background of the community.

In Mexico (and most of Latin America) children touch, hug, and get engaged in short physicial playful activities a lot. But this does not always hold true if the school is sponsored by a religious organization.


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## Vanda

Ha, this is something no school law would achieve here. Our people kiss, give hugs, walk arm in arm, arm around shoulders or waists and in most  schools,  boys and girls even kiss (romantic kisses) during 'snack break'. Some schools try to forbid this, but this is just it: they try, because students won't obey. They do it on the sly, anyway.


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## chicagriega

And I was thinking that my school had crazy polishy. In Greece close friends of both sexes not only touch each other but they often kiss on the cheeks espesialy when they mean goodbye. In more formal occasions they shake hands but it's quite rude do nothing. I thing that touching policies like that are dangerous for children's psycological health. They make them afraid of people as they don't feel warm and friendly with anyone. For God's shake Detective Monk is afraid of handshakes!!!


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## badgrammar

I guess that by not allowing any kind of touching at all whatsoever (no contact), it makes it easier for them - they no longer have to draw the line between appropriate and inappropriate touching at school, it is all banned. 

I wonder if it's more to make teachers jobs easier than it is to make life better for the students?


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## Outsider

badgrammar said:


> Are there rules about touching in schools in your country?  Are they specific to the school setting, or more general societal/cultural rules?  Are these kinds of rules healthy for normal development when they are not culturally shared values?


I went to one school that had a rule against _namorar_ (boyfriends and girlfriends kissing and hugging, etc.) Everyone thought it was a silly moralistic imposition. During fascism, males and female were segregated in most schools, but that was before my time. I am not convinced that mandatory segregation of the sexes has any benefit, and anyway I don't like others to force their morality upon me.

Now, prohibiting students from touching each other point blank... I don't think that would even cross anyone's mind, here. It's a very touchy-feely culture.



badgrammar said:


> The explanation given by school officials is that it keeps children from getting rowdy in the halls, and from sexual harassment, and presumably from such pranks as "wedgies".


That makes sense, actually. When school violence gets very serious, a no-touching policy might be a solution.


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## Kajjo

I just asked myself how certain sport activities are carried out without any bodily contact -- aren't Americans usually very proud on sport achievements? 

Further, I believe it is a very bad concept of education, because children do not learn to properly distinguish between socially acceptable forms of physical contact and forms of harrassment or abuse. Only daily, normal routine can establish a healthy relation to bodily contacts and the avoidance and recognition of improper behaviour.

Kajjo


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## jonquiliser

Huh?! Sounds really freaky. If they want to tackle sexual or other harassment, I doubt this will do anything to that end. Harassment needn't be physical (obviously) and physical contact surely isn't a step to harassment. I'm pretty convinced that stems from other sources... There's nothing like that here, as far as I know and could imagine.


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## LaReinita

Well, I have to say I haven't seen this on the news or the net yet, but WHAT A JOKE!!! . . This is absolutely ridiculous. Maybe each child should travel around in a bubble. This certainly wouldn't happen in the school districts where I live. That's basically like saying, whispering is off limits. What child doesn't whisper to their friends? . . This sounds nothing short of a communist type law. . . WOW . . I hope the public is raging over this and they drop this rule. Imagine that following you around you whole academic carreer.

Charge: Putting arm around fellow classmate

Punishment: 10 day suspension

What a joke!


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## Athaulf

I'm surprised that people are being so greatly surprised at this case. In many U.S. and Canadian schools, in recent years, zero tolerance discipline policies have resulted in a huge number of widely publicized cases like this one, with students mercilessly punished for apparently innocent conduct that contradicted the text of the rules. The cited Wikipedia article has several links on which many such stories can be found.


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## LaReinita

Athaulf said:


> I'm surprised that people are being so greatly surprised at this case. In many U.S. and Canadian schools, in recent years, zero tolerance discipline policies have resulted in a huge number of widely publicized cases like this one, with students mercilessly punished for apparently innocent conduct that contradicted the text of the rules. The cited Wikipedia article has several links on which many such stories can be found.


 
This site speaks of drugs, alcohol and weapons and I completely agree with zero tolerance regarding those (except for over the counter drugs such as advil, midol, tylenol ect. ), but to not be able to hug a friend who's crying because her boyfriend just broke up with her . .  anything . . is ridiculous.


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## Earth Dragon

My school system finds this to be rather unrealistic with the high school and middle school both containing more than 2,000 students. Most American would agree that "no touching" is a bad idea anywhere. The only reason that anything like this is accepted anywhere is because there are focus groups containing next to none of the population that these rules actually affect pushing them. 




Kajjo said:


> I just asked myself how certain sport activities are carried out without any bodily contact -- aren't Americans usually very proud on sport achievements?





Kajjo said:


> Kajjo




Simply put, they can’t. Even in sedentary sports, like chess, it is considered polite (and sometimes required) to introduce yourself and shake hands before and after a game.


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## Athaulf

LaReinita said:


> This site speaks of drugs, alcohol and weapons and I completely agree with zero tolerance regarding those (except for over the counter drugs such as advil, midol, tylenol ect. ), but to not be able to hug a friend who's crying because her boyfriend just broke up with her . .  anything . . is ridiculous.



Well, yes, but when I read those stories, I remember how many times I broke such rules -- mostly in entirely accidental or harmless ways -- and it's not pleasant to think of the consequences that would have befallen me if someone had been enforcing some such "zero-tolerance" policy when I was in school. 

In fact, I would say that given the strong sadistic propensities of kids, a no-touching policy for schools doesn't sound outlandish at all. What _does _sound outlandish is strictly enforcing such rules even in cases when their breach is accidental and/or victimless -- and therefore, I see a pretty clear analogy between using the no-touch policy to penalize a clearly consensual hug and using the no-weapons policy to penalize someone for accidentaly leaving a penknife in his bag or pocket when going to school, with clearly no malicious intent whatsoever in either case.


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## Lugubert

I graduated from my Swedish high school 45 years ago, so I'm not an expert on this topic. But a recent case was the orthodox Jewish school that segregated boys and girls during lessons and recesses. It didn't get its charter renewed, and thus won't get any gov't money unless they repent. Most probably, they will have to close. I suppose this can be stretched to a message that contact between pupils will occur and is allowed (within reasonable limits).


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## tvdxer

badgrammar said:


> Okay, I just saw a story about a 13-year old boy who got suspended from school because he put his arm briefly around his frien's shoulders in the lunchroom.  This was a violation of the school's strict "no touching policy", which even prohibits students from shaking hands!
> 
> I can see where in some countries and cultures, it would probably be normal that there be no contact whatsoever, including handshakes, between girls and boys (for example, in some religions the two sexes should never, ever touch, not even briefly, out of wedlock).
> 
> However, this is in the state of Virginia, in the U.S., and it applies to all forms of contact, whether with the same or with the opposite sex.   It reminds me of another story a few months back about an American first grader (6 years old) who was accused of making an innapropriate sexual gesture when he hugged one of his teachers.
> 
> Are there rules about touching in schools in your country?  Are they specific to the school setting, or more general societal/cultural rules?  Are these kinds of rules healthy for normal development when they are not culturally shared values?



This is fairly typical of many American schools (as well as businesses, government organizations, pretty much any public space): There is a problem, perhaps a serious problem, say students bringing guns to school or sexual harassment in the office, etc.  As a result, the school districts (or offices) affected, rightly outraged, create ridiculous, sweeping no-tolerance rules, forbidding things neither offensive nor harmful, or imposing ridiculous penalties for inadvertent, harmless offenses.   So, with absolutely no common sense, school districts have expelled seven year olds for accidentally bringing toy guns to school, or do what was described above, etc.


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## tvdxer

Hotu Matua said:


> Mmm... I guess this is an example of how people are sometimes obsessed by sexual prohibitions, many times promoted, supported or otherwised favoured by the religious background of the community.
> 
> In Mexico (and most of Latin America) children touch, hug, and get engaged in short physicial playful activities a lot. But this does not always hold true if the school is sponsored by a religious organization.



I don't think that religion played any role in the case of the Virginia school.  Forbidding teachers from giving students innocent hugs or a friend from embracing another in a non-sexual fashion has little to do with sexual repression.  It is most likely more of a "zero tolerance" issue, something favored by overzealous school administrators thinking they'll actually solve problems and better their school's overall situation through robotic enforcement of ridiculously over-sweeping and counterintuitive rules.


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