# 心行くまで彼に触れていられる喜びの涙です。



## vampire5

Hello, here i am again (the guy who's translating a novel called Tears-seller).

心行くまで彼に触れていられる喜びの涙です。


I have some doubt about this sentence: it should mean the he is deeply touched (emotionally moved) by her tears of joy, shouldn't it?

OR could it be that her tears of joy were prompted by his emotions.

If it is so, can you explain the differences between the two versions.

The previous sentence i don't think can be of much help but it goes like this:

瞬きをすればいくらでも、涙があふれてきます
(at every blink of her eyes, tears were flowing).

Thanks!


----------



## coomin

The sentence means something like "she is shedding tears because she can keep touching him as long as she wants to."


----------



## vampire5

Thanks coomin but frankly i keep having some doubt about it.
The main part of the clause is 喜びの涙です (tears of joy) and the previous part is what modifies it, doesn't it ?
Besides the 心行くまで (to the fullest) usually is paired with a verb which in this case is 触れていられる (is emotionally not physically touched).
Shouldn't it be that he was touched to the fullest because of her tears of joy.
Can anyone else confirm or disprove ??


----------



## Shiratori99

Is there a difference between 触られている　and 触れていられる ?


----------



## SoLaTiDoberman

Shiratori99 said:


> Is there a difference between 触られている　and 触れていられる ?


Yes. There are a couple of differences.

First, the pronunciations are different.
触られている（さわられている）
触れていられる（ふれていられる）

Second, the tenses are different.
触られている＝being touched (the passive tense)
触れていられる＝be able to keep touching (the present progressive tense with "possible" meaning in it)

Third, the nuance may be different.
触られている might often have a negative connotation in it, as in 痴漢に触られている, whereas 触れていられる is usually not accompanied with the negative connotation. (However, it depends on the context, of course.)

Hope this helps!


----------



## coomin

He was touched to the fullest

（彼女の喜びの涙によって)彼の心は感動で満たされた。
彼は心の底から感動した。
（彼女の喜びの涙が)
彼の心の奥深くに触れた。
彼の心の琴線に触れた。
or in conversation I would say
彼は思いっきり感動した。
(and I think this is the closer in the meaning than the other ４examples )

Are you translating a Jpse novel or a novel in some other language?  It seems to me the sentrnce carries a sexusl meaning, because it sounds odd to say 彼の心（感情)に心ゆくまで触れる。


----------



## frequency

Shiratori99 said:


> 触れていられる ?


Can + present continuous.

Note that 触られている sounds the passive: you're being touched, and the actor isn't you.
Then you say you can touch something?
It's 触れる, as you know this form. More formal way? 触ることができる.

触れていられる spotlights the continuity of a status. いられる works so.



vampire5 said:


> 瞬きをすればいくらでも、涙があふれてきます
> (at every blink of her eyes, tears were flowing).



Who is crying? The speaker? Or is there a narrator? Yours is narration.


----------



## vampire5

@coomin 
yes i am translating a Japanese novel called 涙売り (tears-seller) by Yoko Ogawa and it's quite a weird story about a woman who sells her tears to musicians and it's full of weird expressions.
In this case she rubbed her tears on a man's body who is able to generate sounds by moving his body joints (she named him Joint Castanets after the percussion instrument).
That's where the sentence comes from: "her tears of joy can deeply touch him". I just needed it confirmed.

@frequency 
As i said the person who's crying is the story's main character which is in turn the narrator also.
That is at every blink of my (the tears-seller girl) eyes, tears were flowing.


----------



## frequency

vampire5 said:


> 瞬きをすればいくらでも、涙があふれてきます
> (at every blink of her eyes, tears were flowing).


The man in the story says so; he's watching her crying. And he's a narrator at the same time.



vampire5 said:


> 心行くまで*彼*に触れていられる喜びの涙です。


Are these two sentences closely linked? There's another guy.

If the second one works as a narration that is told by a third person, that 彼 refers to the man in the story, doesn't it?

Addition: Oh are these both narration? Ah okay, sorry I was confused. The narrator is describing what she's doing: Crying (1st) and crying because she's happy with touching him (2nd).


----------



## vampire5

@frequency
Yeah, i know it's hard to grasp the meaning only by two sentences. To clear any doubts i'll post the entire part which start from the description of what the main character is doing.
The "watashi" of the first sentence is referred to the woman who is also the narrator:

私は横たわる彼の上に覆いかぶさり、全身の関節の上に涙を落とし、それを丹念に擦り込んでゆきます。
瞬きをすればいくらでも、涙があふれてきます。
心行くまで*彼*に触れていられる喜びの涙です。

Now i'm still confused by how you translate the verb 触れていられる which is so important.
Are you talking of physical touch or emotional touch ??
In my dictionary under the voice : 触れていられる it says "to touch,to feel - to experience, to come in contact with, to be emotionally moved by"
In the first case the phrase would go like this:

I cry tears of joy because i'm physically touching his joints with my hands (she's rubbing her tears on his body)
Or :
I cry tears of joy that were emotionally touching him to the fullest.

That's quite a different meaning, which is the right one in the native's opinion???
I would definitely go with the last because is the one that sounds more literary.


----------



## coomin

>Are you talking of physical touch or emotional touch ??

We don't usually use the word 触れる or 触れていられる to mean emotional touch without words meaning something related to emotion. So when the sentence say 彼に触れていられる　it means be able to keep touching him (physically) or maybe (both physically and emotionally) if you over-interpret.

If I translate the last sentence literally  it is either:
A They are the tears caused by the joy that I can keep touching him to my heart's content.
B They are the tears of joy which can keep touching  him to the fullest.

B is closer to your opinion but I think A is more natural because it is unnatural  for the word 触れていられる to have an agent other than living things.


----------



## vampire5

Well if a native says that the main meaning of 触れていられる has seldom anything to do with the emotional side i cannot but acknowledge it of course.
So the first translation is the one to go with.

Thanks coomin!!


----------



## Shiratori99

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> Yes. There are a couple of differences.
> 
> First, the pronunciations are different.
> 触られている（さわられている）
> 触れていられる（ふれていられる）
> 
> Second, the tenses are different.
> 触られている＝being touched (the passive tense)
> 触れていられる＝be able to keep touching (the present progressive tense with "possible" meaning in it)
> 
> Third, the nuance may be different.
> 触られている might often have a negative connotation in it, as in 痴漢に触られている, whereas 触れていられる is usually not accompanied with the negative connotation. (However, it depends on the context, of course.)
> 
> Hope this helps!



I see. Thank you for the explanation!


----------



## coomin

＞ i am translating a Japanese novel called 涙売り (tears-seller) by Yoko Ogawa
I couldn't find any book called 涙売り　by 小川洋子
Is it different Yoko Ogawa?


----------



## YangMuye

http://www.weblio.jp/content/涙売り


> 涙売り
> 作者：小川洋子
> 収載図書：*夜明けの縁をさ迷う人々*
> 出版社角川書店
> 刊行年月2007.8


----------



## frequency

Ah okay, I got it. She is talking to audience as a narrator. 彼 is the man she's touching. He's away from the narration between her and the audience.



vampire5 said:


> Are you talking of physical touch or emotional touch ??


Both. 'To be emotionally moved by' doesn't matter much.

Vampire, on weekends do you like sleeping until late morning?
心行くまで寝ていられる
You can stay sleeping until you're satisfied. Happy, aren't you? This clause implies your happiness. Your example is as well.
She's happy to cry because she's touching him. So she calls her tears are tears of joy.

Well, いられる means that the situation or etc. allows you to keep on doing the actions: 触れる、寝る. 
(A verb 触れる + いられる = 触れていられる, る　changes to て.）

It's sorry to say that your dictionary is something wrong about the entry 'to be emotionally moved by'. I'm sure you are thus puzzled. Feel free to ask us; we're here.


----------



## vampire5

Thanks everyone for your precious advices.
See you next time.


----------



## coomin

YangMuye said:


> http://www.weblio.jp/content/涙売り


Thank you for your information.


----------

