# otesáváš vs sekáš



## Setwale_Charm

Suggested by the thread on сечение in Czech....
 What do the following 2nd sing forms that I found in the dictionary mean?


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## flamenquita

"Otesáváš" (of "otesat"/"otesávat") means you are decreasing/reducing the size of something by cutting off pieces (usually with an axe). And "sekáš" (of "sekat") means just "cut" or "chop" - you can use the verb "sekat" with grass, wood, onion... probably with anything. "Otesat"/"otesávat" is more specific, it usually (as far as I know) refers only to wood.


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## werrr

This is quite similar in Russian, isn’t?

otesávat = обтёсывать, отёсывать



flamenquita said:


> …it usually (as far as I know) refers only to wood.



…and stone as well.

It is used for stonemasonry and sculpture making, for example.


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## flamenquita

You are right, werr, it may be used with stone as well. Unfortunately, I do not speak Russian, so I cannot comment on your first inquiry. 
Cheers


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## Setwale_Charm

Oh, so it is not what I though it was... Thank you both. Velmi dekuju.


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## ewanek

werrr said:


> This is quite similar in Russian, isn’t?
> 
> otesávat = обтёсывать, отёсывать
> 
> 
> 
> …and stone as well.
> 
> It is used for stonemasonry and sculpture making, for example.



Sorry, just a petty detail. You do not these words for stone masonry/sculpting.  Correct word is chip or chisel (referring to pieces of material and the applied tool).


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## flamenquita

Ewanek, are you referring to Russian or Czech? As far as I know, the word "otesávat" CAN be used for both stone and wood in Czech. "Otesávat" is just a prefixed form of "tesat". Cheers


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## ewanek

flamenquita said:


> Ewanek, are you referring to Russian or Czech? As far as I know, the word "otesávat" CAN be used for both stone and wood in Czech. "Otesávat" is just a prefixed form of "tesat". Cheers



I am not competent to judge Russian stone sculptors but being a Czech stone worker myself, in connection with stone working I have never done these activities.  But maybe I just have not tried everything yet )


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## flamenquita

Ewanek, PLEASE, let´s be serious  After your reply I searched the dictionary by Jedlička/Havránek to rule out any doubts. "Tesat kámen" is OK, and "otesávat kámen" - although not used very frequently and not directly mentioned in the dictionary I have - is just a prefixed form (more specific) and SHOULD be also correct. Is there any other Czech speaking person that could confirm this? (other sculptors are welcome


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## ewanek

flamenquita said:


> Ewanek, PLEASE, let´s be serious  After your reply I searched the dictionary by Jedlička/Havránek to rule out any doubts. "Tesat kámen" is OK, and "otesávat kámen" - although not used very frequently and not directly mentioned in the dictionary I have - is just a prefixed form (more specific) and SHOULD be also correct. Is there any other Czech speaking person that could confirm this? (other sculptors are welcome



I did not intent to joke at all.  I accept your dictionary argument.  And yes, the word probably CAN be used )  It is an appropriate explanation for someone, who studies the language, which is, I admit, one of the purposes of these forums (that is why I called my original reply "petty detail").  In practical use this word ("otesavat") is not used though-not as far as I know.  You use the word "(vy)tesat do kamene" (equivalent of to inscribe in stone, carve in stone, chisel out of stone,...).  I think as far as terminology goes, this specific word "otesávat" is used in connection with wood working.  For me it implies work done by an ax.  You do use a kind of an ax for stone work, too, but not for axing the stone the way one processes wood.


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## werrr

Evanek, I really miss your point.

There is no doubt that “tesat” is the basic form, but besides this imperfective verb we have also perfective verbs made by prefixation. We have a lot of different prefixes for different meanings. The meaning of the verb “otesat” was explained  brightly in flamenquita’s very first post - it means “to reduce the size of a solid by cutting off pieces”. You can compare it with your “vytesat” which means “to create something by cutting off pieces of a solid”. Compare for instance:

*otesat kámen* do (tvaru) kvádru × *vytesat kvádr* z kamene

You can think of “otesat” as of a short for “opracovat tesáním” (and it is not just coincidence that the verb “opracovat” has the very same prefix as “otesat”).

Yes, “otesat” is appropriate rather for a  rough work and it could be hardly called a modern industrial method of stonemasonry, but I can think of no other verb for the English “rough-hew”, for example. (otesat nahrubo kámen × vytesat nahrubo kámen)


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## flamenquita

Thanks for your exhausting linguistic commentary, Werr. I´m gasping in amazement at your precision.


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## ewanek

werrr said:


> Evanek, I really miss your point.
> 
> There is no doubt that “tesat” is the basic form, but besides this imperfective verb we have also perfective verbs made by prefixation. We have a lot of different prefixes for different meanings. The meaning of the verb “otesat” was explained  brightly in flamenquita’s very first post - it means “to reduce the size of a solid by cutting off pieces”. You can compare it with your “vytesat” which means “to create something by cutting off pieces of a solid”. Compare for instance:
> 
> *otesat kámen* do (tvaru) kvádru × *vytesat kvádr* z kamene
> 
> You can think of “otesat” as of a short for “opracovat tesáním” (and it is not just coincidence that the verb “opracovat” has the very same prefix as “otesat”).
> 
> Yes, “otesat” is appropriate rather for a  rough work and it could be hardly called a modern industrial method of stonemasonry, but I can think of no other verb for the English “rough-hew”, for example. (otesat nahrubo kámen × vytesat nahrubo kámen)




Now, I am the one, who is confused. I thought I admitted clearly that you CAN use this word "otesat"/"otesávat" - imperfective or perfective form was not the point - i.e. you will be understood when you use it.  

I wouldn't. I would personally (plus most of my colleagues, I think) use the word "sekat", "osekat" (to hew), "vysekat" (hew out/to carve) myself.

When I talked to students about working the stone, I used words to hew ("sekat"); to scabble ("sekat nahrubo špičákem/špicovat", to knob ("sekat nahrubo prýskačem"/"prýskat"), to roughen ("sekat nahrubo/hrubovat"), to dab ("sekat nahrubo pemrlicí/pemrlovat"), to crandall ("sekat/pemrlovat"), to chisel ("sekat/opracovávat dlátem")...

Your explanation was perfect, you have my admiration. If I caused any confusion to anyone, I apologize, it was not my intention.  Consider my previous suggestions and explanations my personal opinion.


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