# How strong is the gambling industry in your country?



## luis masci

My country has passed through several economic disasters and many industries passed away in the process. However the only business that always continued forward alive and well was the gambling industry. 
Would you tell how do you see the average behavior of your fellow citizens with it?


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## .   1

The gambling industry is stupifyingly powerful in Australia.
Most of the victims are at the poorest end of the social spectrum.
Just about every city pub has been transformed into a casino.
Registered clubs drain huge amounts of money from the poor and the mathematically challenged.
People think that they have a chance of winning on a poker machine that returns 90% of the money inserted but the mugs do not stop to think that this means that on average they lose 10% everytime they press the button.  It amazes me.
My mug country has successive governments that seem to be of the opinion that it is quite alright to take so much from those with so little so that those few with little or no morals will reap the most benefit.  Ugh.

.,,


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## maxiogee

luis masci said:


> My country has passed through several economic disasters and many industries passed away in the process. However the only business that always continued forward alive and well was the gambling industry.
> Would you tell how do you see the average behavior of your fellow citizens with it?



Isn't the whole of the financial industry all about gambling? We all do it. 

Some save their money, gambling that the rate of inflation will not outstrip the rate of interest.

Others invest in the stock markets, or in life assurance, or whatever, hoping that their capital will increase.

In Ireland in the '50s and '60s every village would have had several banks and several bookmakers shops. Now there may be one bank, as they withdraw from high-visibility presence to concentrate on more profitable methods of dealing with their customers. The bookmakers shops have also dwindled as the market closed down the uncompetitive. They have largely been replaced with auctioneers premises as the population now tends to do its gambling in the housing market - which is booming. In today's Ireland you are no-one if you don't have a second home, possibly abroad, and maybe even a third.

What industry is not centred on gambling? 
Fashion shops gamble when buying next season's stock, that they know what will be popular and profitable.
Bookshops gamble on knowing what will sell when they stock the new releases, all of life is a gamble.

Lotteries and other legalised forms of gambling are a tax on the mathemtically unaware.
Why do people think they can win in loaded situations.
Will 'knowledge" always beat the bookie in horse-racing - no, it will never beat the bookie. The odds are stacked in the bookie's favour. You can only beat your fellow gamblers. Know that and you begin to know what you are doing.


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## danielfranco

Gambling is big in the USA. 
I kid you not.
No, really!

Anyway... There's even a mathematical theorem that proves it makes good sense to be part of the gambling industry, but that being a gambler is just taking your chances against all odds (!):
"Gambler's ruin"

No matter what, the gambler will always lose. And that's just in paper and theory. In real life, many other people who are part of the gambler's life will also lose. Unless he wins big, once, and can walk away.


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## Riccaboni

Gambling is huge in the United States. I grew up in an area of The Norhteast that used to be called "The Rust Belt", An old industrial area that has since been deserted and fallen into hard times.  Pennsylvania, in an effort to bring back these cities from blight, has legalized slot parlors to go into these depressed areas. They say the casinos will create Jobs, new tax Dollars, and raise the Value of the Property in the area. I cant help to think that the only people that will benefit are the outsiders, The Casinos, The State While the residents will get handed a new issue besides the already rampant crime, lack of affordable housing, police corruption.


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## Alxmrphi

We had a huge big thing when the government said they were going to build some Super Casinos in the UK, and there was uproar, so I don't think it's "*that*" strong here, though they pushed hard enough and I think our government allowed some to be built, not as many as I think they were intending to build.

I'm not entirely up to date on the issue so I will not report non-facts.


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## Kelly B

In my state of the US, only Native American/Indian tribes are allowed to run gambling institutions (I think this is because they are nominally self-governing). This is not true in all the states. 

I don't know a great deal about it either, but on the surface, this seems like a good compromise, since they weren't particularly well off to start with.


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## Alxmrphi

Kelly B said:


> In my state of the US, only Native American/Indian tribes are allowed to run gambling institutions (I think this is because they are nominally self-governing). This is not true in all the states.
> 
> I don't know a great deal about it either, but on the surface, this seems like a good compromise, since they weren't particularly well off to start with.



Is that actually true?! I never knew that, I always wondered why Casinos and gambling institutions are always by Native Americans.
What do you mean by "self-governing" ? (in a context of, why is it only legal for them and nobody else)


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## Kelly B

I'm afraid that Native American sovereignty is probably way off-topic, but here's a site on Gambling on Indian Reservations with a bit more information.


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## mjscott

Kelly B said:


> In my state of the US, only Native American/Indian tribes are allowed to run gambling institutions (I think this is because they are nominally self-governing). This is not true in all the states.
> 
> I don't know a great deal about it either, but on the surface, this seems like a good compromise, since they weren't particularly well off to start with.





Alex_Murphy said:


> Is that actually true?! I never knew that, I always wondered why Casinos and gambling institutions are always by Native Americans.
> What do you mean by "self-governing" ? (in a context of, why is it only legal for them and nobody else)


 
Many Indian tribes are self-governing. There is even a tribe in the Northeast that creates their own passport (Is it the Senecas?--can't remember offhand). 

Back to the subject of gambling: NO gambling authority, whose state has ever set up gambling has ever given their percentages "promised" to the allocations they have chosen in order to pass the bill to begin gambling in the first place. Education certainly has no profited greatly from the gambling in Washington State--which was supposed to benefit greatly by its ratification!

As to Indian tribes, the Almighty Dollar has again become part of the equation. There are Miwok Indians in California who are being stripped of their rights as tribespeople--not because of the amount of Miwok blood they have in their veins--but because they are not a part of the casino operations. Those who *ARE* part of the operation have gained so very much that they wish not to share it with their tribespeople--and keep it among themselves. The more people they can exclude from the profits cut, the more they gain for themselves. (Sounds like an old Godfather movie, no?)

Gambling can become an addiction beyond sound investments--to the point of people risking their retirement accounts and homes for the sake of one roll of the dice. Again, the love of money and its enticement as a motivation can become an illness.

PS: I buy a lottery ticket when the gains become more than 10 million dollars!


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## luis masci

Well... I knew a bit about gambling in USA (you know… Las Vegas is wide world known) but I ignored about Indians are allowed to run gambling institutions. I also ignored about Ireland and Australia gambling. 
In Argentina the government manages most gambling industry. They adduce: always will be gamblers, so it will be better the government take the gambling earn and share it in profitable benefic actions. If government doesn’t, others will take the earns for themselves.
This is a tricky allegation because with that concept, the government also would manage the drugs deal or prostitution. So… according with this thought always will be clients for that, therefore will be better the government take its earn instead gangsters do it. 


------------------------------
I’m only a Spanish speaker, so corrections will be always welcome


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## Chaska Ñawi

luis masci said:


> In Argentina the government manages most gambling industry. They adduce: always will be gamblers, so it will be better the government take the gambling earn and share it in profitable benefic actions. If government doesn’t, others will take the earns for themselves.




Same in Canada.  It used to be that the only casinos were on reservations.  Then they appeared (in Ontario - I'm not sure about the other provinces) in border communities like Windsor and Niagara Falls.  Then the Ontario government started to build them in different communities.  They used to do baseline studies of the communities before the casinos were built, but now you're just told that you're going to have a casino.  The nearest town near us now has one (without a baseline study), and there has been a decided effect on the downtown, with far more empty storefronts.  The tale is that all the tourist money is going into the casino.  You can play cards, roulette, etc., or just go the VLTs (video lottery terminals).

We also have lottery tickets for sale at the cash of every grocery and convenience store.  VLTs  are the worst of all; at least with cards you have a reasonable chance.  The VLTs, commonly installed in bars and hotels, are much faster-paced than a card game, and you can lose a packet in a very short time.  Nova Scotia is moving to outlaw them.  I'd like to see them outlawed everywhere - they cater to the gambler with an addiction problem.

There are also bingo halls all over the place - if your organization, such a school, cares to run a game it can have the proceeds.  

I don't gamble at all (other than when I renew the mortgage), so my experience is not first-hand.


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## luis masci

Most gambler adduce they do it just for fun. However there are a lot of them that could be considered as addicted. 
If the own state, that is the main institution that care for its citizens, is managing this gambling business… well, then I see it at least as something cynic and cruel.
On the other hand it’s true if they don’t others will take the deal for their own. 
Tricky dilemma that we have here.


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## fenixpollo

luis masci said:


> Most gamblers think that they do it just for fun. However there are a lot of them that could be considered as addicted.
> If the very state, that is the main institution that takes care of its citizens, is managing this gambling business… well, then I see it at least as something cynic and cruel.
> On the other hand it’s true that if they don’t others will take the deal for their own.
> Tricky dilemma that we have here.


 Gambling addiction is a serious problem. Many people who gamble, only do it recreationally. But people who do it more compulsively should seek help (help is here).

I'm still waiting for someone to form "WA". 


. said:


> People think that they have a chance of winning on a poker machine that returns 90% of the money inserted but the mugs do not stop to think that this means that on average they lose 10% everytime they press the button. It amazes me.


 Actually, ppc, machines (slot machines, etc.), return more than 90% of the money inserted, over a long span of time. The "mugs" don't win 10% of what they put in -- they either win 100% or 0% each time. 

But simple experiments (Pavlov, anyone?) shows that the human brain (not just the "mug" brain) is driven wild by this kind of variable-ratio reinforcement. People keep feeding the machines because of the hope that "this time, might be the time it pays out". 

I can't blame people for getting addicted to something they consider harmless enjoyment -- although I do blame them for not doing the math beforehand.


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## Alxmrphi

fenixpollo, you mentioned Pavlov, but I don't see how it fits with the mentalituy of slot machine players, where is the associated and tamed response (presuming you're talking about his dog experiment, of course.)


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## maxiogee

Alex_Murphy said:


> fenixpollo, you mentioned Pavlov, but I don't see how it fits with the mentalituy of slot machine players, where is the associated and tamed response (presuming you're talking about his dog experiment, of course.)



Have you never been near a bank of slots? Flashing lights and ringing bells, whirring wheels and clickety-clacking ratchets? Pure Pavlov.


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## fenixpollo

Alex_Murphy said:


> fenixpollo, you mentioned Pavlov, but I don't see how it fits with the mentalituy of slot machine players, where is the associated and tamed response (presuming you're talking about his dog experiment, of course.)


 I'm talking about the conclusions that Pavlov and other behaviorists drew from the dog experiments, and using their vocabulary. It was not my intention to analyze Pavlov's experiment and apply it to gamblers, because I am not conducting any experiments on gamblers (as far as you know).  

If, however, you'd like to engage in an exercise in futility, and you want to talk about the _conditioned response_ and the _unconditioned response_ (is that what you meant by "associated and tamed response"?) that Pavlov described, then we can discuss it in another thread about the psychological causes of gambling.


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## Etcetera

Large casinos (there's a lot of them in Moscow, much less in St. Petersburg) are rather popular among rich people. But for less rich people, there are street slot machines, and they're sooo popular!.. I'm not sure I've ever seen a slot machine and no one playing it!
Well, I understand the players - I, personally, don't like games, even computer ones, but when I launch Lines (a silly, silly game!), I just can't stop!


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## luis masci

Interesting to know how gambling is in Russia. 
Let me a question Etcetera: could you tell how was gambling issue in the time when still your country was part of the Soviet Union?
Another interesting thing would be if someone tells how is gambling (whether it’s existing or no) in countries with Communist regimens such as China, Korea or even Cuba.


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## Etcetera

luis masci said:


> Interesting to know how gambling is in Russia.
> Let me a question Etcetera: could you tell how was gambling issue in the time when still your country was part of the Soviet Union?


I believe gambling was officially forbidden in the USSR. That doesn't mean that there could no gambling at all. There could exist underground casinos and so on.
I've just asked my Mum, and she says that "No one even heard about 'games of chence'". 
But there were also some state-run lotteries - I don't know if they have anything to do with gambling.


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## mytwolangs

In the USA, it is mostly "scratch tickets" and the Lottery/powerball/Keno/cash 5 that are the legal ones. The big leagal ones, other forms of gambling are goverened by other things. Things like locale, state laws, whatever. 

As far as why gambling stays in business - There is a sucker born every minute. And to sucker even more in, they throw out some numbers that horrbily mislead - 

65% of all earnings are paid out in prizes. What this makes one think is that they will win back AT LEAST 65% of what they put into. BUT, most of that 65% goes to one big winner. The rest of the winners split the table scraps at best.

Chance of winning powerball - 1 in 147,000,000. In order to ensure that you hit the big prise - you would have to spend a little over $5,000 every day your whole life to ensure you hit. Every single day for 80 years. 

PLUS - when you DO win any good amount.. one man here won $365 million U.S. dollars a few years back. After taxes were taken - he had $113 million. 

Gambling and the lottery is a scam. It is a tax on people who are bad with numbers. Here is a simple math formula - What has 6 balls and screws you twice a week? The lottery.


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## .   1

fenixpollo said:


> Actually, ppc, machines (slot machines, etc.), return more than 90% of the money inserted, over a long span of time. The "mugs" don't win 10% of what they put in -- they either win 100% or 0% each time.


I am afraid that your numbers indicate that you may not have a total grasp of Probability Theory.
Every spin of the wheels is a brand new ocurrence and the odds of a jackpot falling immediately after a jackpot has fallen is exactly the same as 1,000 turns after the last jackpot fell.
Your country may have different percentages but it is set at about 90% return in Australia.
It is strange how the quote is always marked as 90% return rather than 10% lost.
On average $10 inserted into a poker machine will result in $9 being returned but this is an average and jackpots must be taken into consideration.
It is simply not possible to win on poker machines in the long run except for the person who wins the jackpot and that person has probably 'invested' more than the jackpot returns.
Organised gambling is not gambling at all as the end results are predetermined by mathematics.

.,,


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## fenixpollo

. said:


> I am afraid that your numbers indicate that you may not have a total grasp of Probability Theory.


 They do, but I didn't express myself well. What I meant is that most people put in money, pull the arm (or push the button) and don't win anything back.  Only once in a while will they win something. Thanks for straightening me out. 


> Organised gambling is not gambling at all as the end results are predetermined by mathematics.


exactly.


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## Bettie

Here where I live it's the same about Native Americans, but because there are far away there is a Casino in a ship that goes out to international waters, and a lot of people are there everyday since 9:30 in the morning, most o them seniors.

In Mexico gambling is forbidden but we have a lot ot places where you can play bingo and gamble on races, mmmhhhh.


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## maxiogee

Ireland's National Lottery runs twice weekly. Pick six numbers from 42, if they all come up there's a guaranteed jackpot of €1,350,000 each draw, but there is a rollover facility when it is not won. The prizes are tax-free and paid out in full. None of the American concept of a bit every year, or a reduced jackpot if you want it now. That's a rip-off.

We also play the Eurolottery which has huge jackpots, and is played once a week, again with rollover facility. This is a pick five numbers from 50, and pick a separate two "lucky numbers" from 9 - very long odds.


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## luis masci

Etcetera said:


> But there were also some state-run lotteries - I don't know if they have anything to do with gambling.


All loteries, bingos and stuff like that are also gambling since my point of view.



mytwolangs said:


> Chance of winning powerball - 1 in 147,000,000. In order to ensure that you hit the big prise - you would have to spend a little over $5,000 every day your whole life to ensure you hit. Every single day for 80 years.
> PLUS - when you DO win any good amount.. one man here won $365 million U.S. dollars a few years back. After taxes were taken - he had $113 million.
> Gambling and the lottery is a scam. It is a tax on people who are bad with numbers. Here is a simple math formula - What has 6 balls and screws you twice a week? The lottery.


Gamblers generally don’t analyze their mathematical chances. Otherwise they'd never bet. 
They base their hopeful in dreams, favorites numbers and so on.


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## luis masci

Well... as there is not anyone from communist countries that explain us how gambling is and how people behave in this field, I’ve got this link for those who are interested. 
Meanwhile I’ll continue wainting for someone first hand witness who 'd like enlighten us.


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## coconutpalm

Haha, I can't say I'm with first-hand information, because I myself don't. I even don't know how to play pokers or mah-jong, which are very very very popular in China --- don't think that I add two "very"s to exaggerate it--- I am thought of ridiculous when I tell others that I don't know how to play them. When playing pokers or mah-jong, most of the players gamble. The amount of money gambled each round depends (sorry, I don't know the terms concerned). NOte: Not only rich people gamble big money, but many addicted people do, too.

It can be a problem when you get addicted to it. However, it IS forbidden in China. Twenty, or even ten years ago, if you were caught gambling, you would be fined, or received some more severe punishment. 
As for casino, um, Macau.
Horse racing? Hongkong. It's said though that younger generation in Hongkong have come to desert it.
Lottery? Yes, as far as I know, legal. Some people are addicted to it. Father of one of my dormmates and his friends love it. Not addicted, I think.

And I have a question: why isn't investing in securities regarded as gambling?


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## luis masci

coconutpalm said:


> And I have a question: why isn't investing in securities regarded as gambling?


No sure what you mean, but if you are suggesting why they don’t investing in another useful things instead in gambling I’d tell you the answer is simple: 
This is a capitalist system, and things are considered more or less important in order how much money it can generate. 
As you say about your country, now gambling is more tolerated that it used to be some years ago; it sounds as a clear sign that also China is coming into a “modern progress”.


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## .   1

coconutpalm said:


> And I have a question: why isn't investing in securities regarded as gambling?


Of course it is gambling.
_Gambling on the stockmarket _is a standard phrase.

.,,


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## coconutpalm

luis masci said:


> it sounds as a clear sign that also China is coming into a “modern progress”.


 
China is getting more and more tolerated with many issues: homosexuals, prostitute industries, etc.
I'm among the ones that propose them.


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## emma42

There is a lot of talk about "super casinos" in England at the moment.  Several cities have recently tendered bids to have the latest one built in their area.  On the one hand, these casinos will  be great for some local people in terms of jobs (and all that goes with employment - self-esteem, purchasing power, a sense of enfranchisement).  On the other hand, the very idea of these places turns my stomach a little.  Casinos are largely places of greed and desperation.  Gambling addiction is rife in this country, particularly amongst men.  Crime and debt will rise (to fund gambling addiction).  My strong distaste, however, is at odds with my liberal tendencies.


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## elpoderoso

maxiogee said:


> Have you never been near a bank of slots? Flashing lights and ringing bells, whirring wheels and clickety-clacking ratchets? Pure Pavlov.


Apparently there are all manner of psychological tricks used in casinos to encourage people to carry on pumping money into the slots, from the beeping of the machines to create a sense of urgency, to offering free drinks so the punter won't leave the slots. They also don't have clocks so the customers will loose track of time. 
See more here 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/5013038.stm



emma42 said:


> There is a lot of talk about "super casinos" in England at the moment. Several cities have recently tendered bids to have the latest one built in their area. On the one hand, these casinos will be great for some local people in terms of jobs (and all that goes with employment - self-esteem, purchasing power, a sense of enfranchisement). On the other hand, the very idea of these places turns my stomach a little. Casinos are largely places of greed and desperation. Gambling addiction is rife in this country, particularly amongst men. Crime and debt will rise (to fund gambling addiction). My strong distaste, however, is at odds with my liberal tendencies.


 
I think if these ''super casinos'' get the go ahead there will be a related rise in the number of loan companies, legal or otherwise. Any guesses where these companies would choose to locate?

On a side note, a pop-up appeared whilst typing this for an internet poker site. With so much on-line gambling available there will still be ways for people to loose money.


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## TRG

. said:


> Of course it is gambling.
> _Gambling on the stockmarket _is a standard phrase.
> 
> .,,


 
It is gambling in a sense, but so is life. However, it's not gambling in the senese of "gaming" that we are talking about here. The gambling or gaming industry is about zero sum games like craps and roulette. The stock market is not a zero sum game; there everybody wins. 

What I really wanted to say is that in my lifetime in the US the gambling industry has become very widespread. The lotteries, which are run by the states, are by far the worst because the odds are the worst. They are just a way to get money from people who should be spending it on important things, like beer, and cigarettes. Seriously, I don't like the lotteries much. The really funniest thing about gambling are the casinos where you can go and see all of the senior citizens ambling up to the slot machines to chunk away their hard earned social security checks. I don't know about the rest of the world, but in the US the seniors are a political sacred cow and they always get looked after first even though they have most all of the wealth. If you don't believe me just come to America and go to the nearest casino. Just don't get between Granny and her favorite slot or she'll beat you up with her cane!


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## .   1

TRG said:


> It is gambling in a sense, but so is life. However, it's not gambling in the senese of "gaming" that we are talking about here. The gambling or gaming industry is about zero sum games like craps and roulette. The stock market is not a zero sum game; there everybody wins.


You must remember to unwrap the plastic from the cigar before you smoke it.
You are utterly correct that the stock market is not a zero sum game.
You couldn't be more wrong if you made this wrong statement on the wrongest day of the year and you used an electric wronging machine.
This is so wrong that thousands of American stockbrokers from the Great Depression are spinning in their graves.
The casinos only break your arms if you welch on a bet but the stock market will take your house.
Casion owners only take a smallish cut of the transaction but the stockmarket takes everything it touches.
Everybody wins.  You must be kidding.  How to you spell Enron?
How many mum and dad investors ever make any money out of the stock market?  I see creeps like Donald (This Is My Real Hair) driving cars worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to their private jet on the way to The Tax Haven Tropical Island and I see hundreds of thousands of small investors catching the subway to work.

The stock market is the most enormous gambling industry that has ever existed.  It is possible to bet and lose money based on food production and this betting process determines the final price to the consumer.

I am effected by the poor decisions made on the stock market when the price of my food goes up because some mug made a wrong bet on the harvest of lima beans but if the same burke gets lucky and makes a right decision the price of beans will not come down by a commensurate degree because blokes like Donald are flying the profits to the Bahamas.

.,,


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## fenixpollo

. said:


> The casinos only break your arms if you welch on a bet but the stock market will take your house.
> How many mum and dad investors ever make any money out of the stock market?
> 
> The stock market is the most enormous gambling industry that has ever existed.  It is possible to bet and lose money based on food production and this betting process determines the final price to the consumer.
> 
> I am effected by the poor decisions made on the stock market when the price of my food goes up because some mug made a wrong bet on the harvest of lima beans but if the same burke gets lucky and makes a right decision the price of beans will not come down by a commensurate degree because blokes like Donald are flying the profits to the Bahamas.


I agree passionately with your point, though I must quibble with your details: most casinos in the US are owned by Native Americans, not mafias. These are the most disadvantaged people in the country, and they will not break your arms if you don't pay your gambling debt. That's the collection companies. 

Mum and dad investors DO make money on the stock market -- at about the same rate that they win the lottery. 

Everything else you said is spot on. Cheers, Robert.


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## TRG

. said:


> You must remember to unwrap the plastic from the cigar before you smoke it.
> You are utterly correct that the stock market is not a zero sum game.
> You couldn't be more wrong if you made this wrong statement on the wrongest day of the year and you used an electric wronging machine.
> This is so wrong that thousands of American stockbrokers from the Great Depression are spinning in their graves.
> The casinos only break your arms if you welch on a bet but the stock market will take your house.
> Casion owners only take a smallish cut of the transaction but the stockmarket takes everything it touches.
> Everybody wins. You must be kidding. How to you spell Enron?
> How many mum and dad investors ever make any money out of the stock market? I see creeps like Donald (This Is My Real Hair) driving cars worth hundreds of thousands of dollars to their private jet on the way to The Tax Haven Tropical Island and I see hundreds of thousands of small investors catching the subway to work.
> 
> The stock market is the most enormous gambling industry that has ever existed. It is possible to bet and lose money based on food production and this betting process determines the final price to the consumer.
> 
> I am effected by the poor decisions made on the stock market when the price of my food goes up because some mug made a wrong bet on the harvest of lima beans but if the same burke gets lucky and makes a right decision the price of beans will not come down by a commensurate degree because blokes like Donald are flying the profits to the Bahamas.
> 
> .,,


 
An electric wronging machine! That's very funny. I have never seen such a thing, but you evidently already have one. I think the thread subject is gambling in the sense that people usually mean it so bringing Enron into the topic is probably not appropriate. If you would like to start a thread on whether the stock market is gambling I might consider making a post or two on it. Fenixpollo is correct about the large number of casinos owned by Native Americans. It's tacky, but if it helps them out who am I to complain.

I think perhaps an even more interesting question is the growth in popularity of poker, specifically the Texas Hold'em variety. This is a huge industry all by itself and I have friends who play it routinely, usually in the form of tournaments where you pay an entry fee and then play until one person has all the chips. Then the entry money is divided up between the top finishers. You see this on TV all the time. An argument can be made that this type of poker is more of a skill game, but if you have no poker skill, like me, then it's just gambling.


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## .   1

Go and try to convince a passing mod that the stock market is not gambling and you may have a chance but it would have to be slim.
Thanks for the wink in your post, I would have been too dim to get the joke otherwise so you have improved my day already.
The stock market is the most disgusting arm of the gambling industry and I am not sure if the casinos feed off the stock market or the stock market feed off the casinos but the whole concept of gambling on the future in ways that impinge on my life is repugnant.
I would love to see any information about how much real benefit has been gained by Native Americans from their casinos when compared to increased rates of gambling and domestic abuse and alcoholism that accompanies each casino.
I would also like to see a breakdown of the average income of most people who frequent Native American casinos to leave their wallets behind.  I doubt if you will find too many highly successful standing in front of slot machines and dice tables.  Most would be from the lower socioeconomic group inserting their weekly paycheck in the vain hope of making some real money and then eating beans for the next six days.
If Native Americans derive any benefit from casinos it is at the expense of people who are not much better off than themselves.

.,,


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## don maico

Alex_Murphy said:


> We had a huge big thing when the government said they were going to build some Super Casinos in the UK, and there was uproar, so I don't think it's "*that*" strong here, though they pushed hard enough and I think our government allowed some to be built, not as many as I think they were intending to build.
> 
> I'm not entirely up to date on the issue so I will not report non-facts.



Well Manchester has just been give the green light to build the first super casino against a lot of oposition from the right wing press and many members of the public whpo fear the worst. On the positive side, it will bring a lot of new employment, like las Vegas it wont be all about gambling and will raise a lot of extra revenue for the Government.
If successful it will be the first of several, the Greenwich Dome being a likely future venue.


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## fenixpollo

. said:


> The stock market is the most disgusting arm of the gambling industry and I am not sure if the casinos feed off the stock market or the stock market feed off the casinos but the whole concept of gambling on the future in ways that impinge on my life is repugnant.
> 
> I would love to see any information about how much real benefit has been gained by Native Americans from their casinos when compared to increased rates of gambling and domestic abuse and alcoholism that accompanies each casino.
> 
> I would also like to see a breakdown of the average income of most people who frequent Native American casinos to leave their wallets behind. Most would be from the lower socioeconomic group inserting their weekly paycheck in the vain hope of making some real money and then eating beans for the next six days.
> 
> I doubt if you will find too many highly successful standing in front of slot machines and dice tables.


 Go to a reservation with a casino, and you will see decent (not opulent) houses, roads and other infrastructure being built, often for the first time ever. You'll see less hunger and the social ills it brings, better healthcare, lower unemployment, and as a result lower alcoholism... you'll see more successful communities that are, in general, happier communities.

The patrons of casinos are usually in the upper end of the lower socioeconomic status, into the lower-middle-class status. Very few rigch people frequent casinos... too bad, though. I think that the rich should be required to gamble in casinos once a week, as a way to distribute the wealth.


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