# All Romance languages: Black hole



## jester.

Looking at the Spanish Wikipedia article about black holes I found out that all Romance languages seem to use quite different words for _hole_. I did so by looking at all the articles in Romance languages.

Here's what I found:

Spanish: Agujero negro
French: Trou noir
Catalan: Forat negre
Galician: Burato negro
Italian: Buco nero
Portuguese: Buraco negro
Romanian: Gaură neagră
Sicilian: purtùsu nìuru

So, we have agujero, trou, forat, burato, buco, buraco, gaură and purtùsu.

The only relation that I can see is between Galician, Portuguese (not so surprising) and Italian.

So, does anyone have an idea or an explanation why the Romance languages have so many different words for _hole_?


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## robbie_SWE

The Romanian word for hole ("*gaură*") comes from the Latin word _gavula* (<cavus/cavula)_. I don't know why, but I presume that the Romanian retained the original Latin word for it (I may be wrong...), while the other Romance languages took inspiration from other sources (maybe from other Latin words?!). 

 robbie


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## Outsider

According to this dictionary:



> Portuguese *buraco*
> 
> por _furaco_ < Lat. _foramen_


To be honest, their etymology sounds a little odd to me.


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## Cecilio

The Spanish word "agujero" comes from "aguja", which means "needle" in English. I suppose it referred initially to the little hole that you can find in needles, but I'm not sure.

The Catalan word "forat" comes from latin, "foratus", derived from the verb "forare" (="make holes").


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## jazyk

> The Romanian word for hole ("*gaură*") comes from the Latin word _gavula* (<cavus/cavula)_. I don't know why, but I presume that the Romanian retained the original Latin word for it (I may be wrong...), while the other Romance languages took inspiration from other sources (maybe from other Latin words?!).


Gavula is not classical Latin. Vulgar Latin maybe. There's nothing wrong with it, I'm just saying it.



> According to this dictionary:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> Portuguese *buraco*
> 
> por _furaco_ < Lat. _foramen_
> To be honest, their etymology sounds a little odd to me.


I think that's very likely.


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## Outsider

So you agree with Priberam's etymology, *Jazyk*?

By the way, *Robbie* did add a little asterisk next to _gavula_, and its likely etymon in classical Latin.


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## parakseno

Yep, the etymology of "gaura" given by Dex is, and I quote:

"Lat. **gavula* _(< cavus)_."


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## HUMBERT0

En español, también se le dice *hoyo negro*, desconozco el origen de hoyo.


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## Cecilio

HUMBERT0 said:


> En español, también se le dice *hoyo negro*, desconozco el origen de hoyo.



I've never heard "hoyo negro" as an expression in astronomy.

The word "hoyo" is more specific than "agujero". It normally means "a hole in the ground". Apparently, it is related to the Latin word "fovea".


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## Mutichou

My dictionary says that _trou_ comes from the Latin popular word _traucum_ (around year 700).


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## vince

that's understandable... lots of words in Romance languages didn't exist in Latin itself, but only in "Vulgar latin"

is there a word in French that means "hole"or something similar that derives from Latin "agu..." (e.g. Spanish "agujero")? that doesn't mean 'sharp" e.g. "aiguille"? it would be interesting to know about it, until last week i didn't know that vulgar latin "testa" (jar) survived as "head" in Spanish, I thought that "cabeza" (capita) prevailed (e.g. testaruda = stubborn literally "hardheaded").


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## Cecilio

vince said:


> that's understandable... lots of words in Romance languages didn't exist in Latin itself, but only in "Vulgar latin"
> 
> is there a word in French that means "hole"or something similar that derives from Latin "agu..." (e.g. Spanish "agujero")? that doesn't mean 'sharp" e.g. "aiguille"? it would be interesting to know about it, until last week i didn't know that vulgar latin "testa" (jar) survived as "head" in Spanish, I thought that "cabeza" (capita) prevailed (e.g. testaruda = stubborn literally "hardheaded").



The normal word for "head" in Spanish is "cabeza". The word "testa" exists but is not used very often. It's not the same as in French or Italian, where "tête" and "testa" are respectively the normal words for "head".


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## jazyk

> Yep, the etymology of "gaura" given by Dex is, and I quote:
> 
> "Lat. **gavula* _(< cavus)_."


The asterisk before a Latin word means it's either reconstructed or later Latin.



> until last week i didn't know that vulgar latin "testa" (jar) survived as "head" in Spanish, I thought that "cabeza" (capita) prevailed (e.g. testaruda = stubborn literally "hardheaded").


Testa means forehead in Portuguese.


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## Thomas1

Outsider said:


> According to this dictionary:
> 
> To be honest, their etymology sounds a little odd to me.


I am wondering why it seems weird to you (seriously)?

Tom


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## DrLindenbrock

As for the Sicilian word _purtùsu nìuru, _the word purtùsu corresponds to the Italian word _pertugio._ _Pertugio_ means _hole_ or _small_ _opening_ although it is a rather poetic and uncommon word. _Buco_ is much more used and, for example, a hole in your pants in always a _buco_, never a _pertugio_.
An archaic variant of _pertugio_ was _pertuso_, which is even closer to the Sicilian word.

As for the etymology, _pertugio_ can be connected to the Latin verb _pertǔndere = _to make a hole (e.g. in a wall)

Hope that helps


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## Outsider

Thomas1 said:


> I am wondering why it seems weird to you (seriously)?
> 
> Tom


Because I had never heard of a f --> b sound change in Portuguese, and I don't understand how the ending _-amen_ would become _-aco_.


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## Thomas1

Here’s something I managed to find:



> Gil Vicente, who wrote the so-called sayagues as freely as any Spaniard, may have used horacar all the more easily because Portuguese had the *old form* *furaco* (modern bulraca, *buraco*, buraqui- nho, buracar, esburacar-Michaelis)
> 
> A "Villancico" in gil Vicente
> Joseph E. Gillet
> _Modern Philology_, Vol. 24, No. 4 (May, 1927), pp. 405-407
> Look here.


 
Unfortunately I couldn’t read the whole since you need to get the access. But I think _furaco_ can be the archaic form of _buraco_.
 
Thomas


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## Cnaeius

DrLindenbrock said:


> As for the Sicilian word _purtùsu nìuru, _the word purtùsu corresponds to the Italian word _pertugio._ _Pertugio_ means _hole_ or _small_ _opening_ although it is a rather poetic and uncommon word. _Buco_ is much more used and, for example, a hole in your pants in always a _buco_, never a _pertugio_.
> An archaic variant of _pertugio_ was _pertuso_, which is even closer to the Sicilian word.
> 
> As for the etymology, _pertugio_ can be connected to the Latin verb _pertǔndere = _to make a hole (e.g. in a wall)
> 
> Hope that helps


 
In Italian is very used also "foro", that comes from the latin (and italian) verb "forare", that is to do a hole
Buco has germanic (!!) origin


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## Cecilio

I've had a look in Wikipèdia, the Occitan version of Wikipedia, and I've found the term "trauc negre" in the astronomy section. This word "trauc" looks similar to the French one. In Catalan there is a word called "trau", which means "a small hole in your clothes".


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## HUMBERT0

Cecilio said:


> I've never heard "hoyo negro" as an expression in astronomy.
> 
> The word "hoyo" is more specific than "agujero". It normally means "a hole in the ground". Apparently, it is related to the Latin word "fovea".


On this side of the atlantic, we also know them as "hoyos negros", don't take my word for it, do a google search.


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## palomnik

In Spanish, "agujero" is a hole that goes through something, whether a hole in your pants or a hole in the wall.  "Hueco" is a hole like a burrow.  "Hoyo" is generally any other type of hole, including, usually, black holes.


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