# Rifugio di montagna



## krige

Salve,

come si chiama in inglese il "rifugio" delle piste da sci? Per rifugio intendo un edificio (spesso in legno) bar-tavola calda (qualche volta hotel) dove ci si ferma a rifocillarsi e a riposare mentre si scia, spesso con i tavolini all'aperto durante le belle giornate.


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## Curandera

Ciao

Dovrebbe essere, *mountain shelter* o *cabin*. Abbastanza generico come termine. Mi auguro che possa andar bene.


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## andym

It's a difficult one and I think you'll find that there are different uses in British English and American English. As we generally going skiing in France or Italy we tend to use, or at least understand, the terms used there while Americans have their own terms (eg use 'piste' while they use 'trail'). 

We use the term refuge to mean a mountain shelter or cabin - somewhere where climbers or hikers would stay which would generally have very basic facilities but could be a small hotel-restaurant. (So similar to 'refuge' in French or 'rifugio' in Italian). 

If you were writing something for people visiting an Italian resort there'd be nothing wrong with using the word 'rifugio' (possibly in italics) if there was enough information for people to work out what you were referring to.

Alternatively you could say something like 'mountain restaurant' or 'mountaintop bar' or 'slope-side hotel-restaurant'.

I have a feeling there might be a more specific term - but nothing comes to mind.

EDIT: we'd also use the word 'chalet' to small to medium-sized wooden or wood-clad Alpine buildings. But it's a term to use with care as it can be taken to mean a private house that is rented to a group. But you could say (at least in BE) for example 'we stopped for a drink at a chalet beside the piste' or 'we stayed in a small chalet-hotel' But equally it would be just as valid to say 'we stopped an had a drink in a rifugio'. On the other hand if you said 'we stayed the night in a rifugio' the listener wouldn't know whether you'd stayed in a small hotel or spent the night in a sleeping bag in a cabin.


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## krige

Thank you *Curandera *and *andym*, you have been very helpful


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## furs

The word andym didn't remember is '(mountain) hut'.


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## andym

furs said:


> The word andym didn't remember is '(mountain) hut'.



if you were a ski-tourer or mountaineer you'd spend the night (in your sleeping bag) in a 'mountain hut'. But it's not normally somewhere you'd go for a meal - 'hut' indicates somewhere that is really, really simple - like a 'shed' or a 'cabin'. If you said you'd eaten in a mountain hut you would be emphasising the fact that the surroundings were very basic and maybe youwere surprised at how well you'd eaten.

That's the problem with translating 'rifugio' or the French word 'refuge'. It could be a hut or it could be a small hotel-restaurant.

I was trying to remember whether there's a word for the sort of restaurant-bar you'd find at the top of a ski-lift or beside the piste. Still can't remember.


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## furs

I see your point, andym, but still most Europeans who have to translate rifugio in English would probably use 'hut' --very probably by analogy with German (=hütte).
And -- as a ski tourer and mountaineer (which indeed I am ) -- I have slept in rifugi/refuges/huts or whatever that can vary in standard from a very basic shelter to something resembling a 4-star hotel, but they were all called the same.


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## andym

furs said:


> I see your point, andym, but still most Europeans who have to translate rifugio in English would probably use 'hut' --very probably by analogy with German (=hütte).



Well maybe, but unfortunately most (native) English-speakers would think they meant a 'shed' or a 'cabin'. I think the term is probably better avoided unless you wanted to specifically convey a sense of something very simple (or you're producing a leaflet in English for German-speakers).

The point I was making was that the word 'refuge' or 'rifugo' can have a spectrum of meanings - so it's worth bearing in mind the scope for misinterpretation and ensure there's enough explanation or context in the text so people won't be confused.


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## Curandera

I agree with andym, there must be another word for it, a specific one. All of the above, mountain hut, cabin, shelter, refuge, and even chalet are all interchangeable and they all can refer to a sort of restaurant-bar and to a hotel all the same. I would use mountain shelter or chalet as a general term.


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## london calling

I notice that "refuge" and "mountain hut" are both used extensively and are generally intended as synonymous.

Personally, I have always used the term "refuge", but then I have never been to a German-speaking winter resort.

Edit: Has anybody ever heard of a ski hut, or have I made that one up?


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## andym

london calling said:


> I notice that "refuge" and "mountain hut" are both used extensively and are generally intended as synonymous.



'Generally' is the $64,000 question. They may be synonyms but they aren't equal and interchangeable. A lot of 'refuges' are huts, but some aren't (for example I was trying to think of the name of the rifugio at the top of the lift out of Courmayeur as you go towards the Hellbronner. It's a small restaurant-hotel and definitely not a hut (or a ski-hut).

The original poster is trying to find a term that describes something that is more than a basic hut for mountaineers. I think the term 'refuge' or 'rifugio' would be better than 'hut' but the translator needs to bear in mind the scope for confusion and ambiguity and either ensure that there is additional explanation or that the meaning will be clear from the context.

If I owned a four-star hotel I probably wouldn't want potential customers to think I owned a shed/cabin/shack.


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## furs

Andym, what you have in mind is the Rifugio Torino. And it indeed is a rifugio: http://www.rifugiotorino.it/


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## london calling

furs said:


> Andym, what you have in mind is the Rifugio Torino. And it indeed is a rifugio: http://www.rifugiotorino.it/


And I definitely call it a "refuge"! And the ones above it as well!

Having said that, I thought I'd check it out on Google and I have found it called the "Torino Hut" as well ....I don't like it, but I have found more than one occurrence for it, so someone uses it!


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## Amaltamnena

I've read all of the above threads, but I'm not sure.
I have to translate  the following phrase (Italian to English):
"Giro dei 5 Rifugi" (it refers to a mountain-bike trail tour) 
How about:
"Tour of the five mountain lodges"?
Any suggestions?


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## furs

'Five huts' tour' would be my choice.


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## strafi

carissimi,
è da diverso tempo che ho un problema nel tradurre il termine RIFUGIO DI MONTAGNA.
Devo pubblicare l'elenco dei rifugi montani che offrono anche il servizio di ristorazione ed alloggio per gli escursionisti.
ho chiesto ad uno studio di traduzione e mi propone "mountain refuge" ma a me non pare adatto. Un altro madrelingua diversi anni fa lo aveva tradotto MOUNTAIN LODGE. Di sicuro scarterei HUT (che il madrelingua mi aveva descritto come richiamante ad una immagine di capanna del terzo mondo...) e Shelter.
Qualcuno per favore mi aiuta?
Grazie almeno lo risolvo una volta per tutte.


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## King Crimson

Non per scoraggiarti, ma se hai dato un'occhiata a questo thread vedrai che siamo ben lontani da una soluzione condivisa...


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## strafi

infatti ... non lo avevo visto questo thread prima di formulare la mia richesta (sebbene l'avessi cercato GIURO!!) e l'amministratore ha reindirizzato la mia richiesta qui. Ora so che non c'è speranza... e che anche la seconda madrelingua ha ragione!


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## furs

Mah, io vado in montagna da una vita (e non solo in Italia) quindi credo di avere una certa competenza di prima mano. Qui (come in tutti i campi specialistici) essere madrelingua  conta poco, se non sai di cosa si sta parlando... Tieni presente prima di tutto che in UK/US il rifugio come lo intendiamo noi sulle Alpi/Appennini non esiste (salvo poche eccezioni). E questo e' senz'altro il motivo fondamentale perche' non esiste un traducente esatto. Infatti, nei Paesi alpini (ma non solo alpini, pensa alla Spagna) dove i rifugi esistono e sono piu' o meno come i nostri, la parola esiste: refuge/refugio/huette etc.

Di solito, come ho gia' detto, si usa tradurre rifugio con 'hut', e anche molti siti in inglese lo fanno. Certamente non 'mountain lodge' che e' altra cosa (piu' un albergo situato in montagna). Puoi anche lasciare 'rifugio', tanto di solito chi va in montagna lo capisce benissimo (magari con un piccola spiegazione in nota o fra parentesi).


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## Tellure

strafi said:


> carissimi,
> è da diverso tempo che ho un problema nel tradurre il termine RIFUGIO DI MONTAGNA.
> Devo pubblicare l'elenco dei rifugi montani che offrono anche il servizio di ristorazione ed alloggio per gli escursionisti.
> ho chiesto ad uno studio di traduzione e mi propone "mountain refuge" ma a me non pare adatto.



Eppure:


> *mountain refuge*
> Definition:
> Any shelter or protection  from distress or danger located in a predominantly mountainous area.
> [...]
> *broader terms*
> tourist facility
> [...]
> *Italian:*                                          rifugio di montagna


Fonte: http://www.eionet.europa.eu/gemet/concept?ns=1&cp=14982


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## furs

Tellure, e' vero che 'refuge' esiste in inglese, ma in pratica nella maggior parte dei casi ho visto usare 'hut', probabilmente come dicevo dianzi come calco dal tedesco.


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## elfa

Rather late to the party, but I'm in total agreement with londoncalling on this, likewise Tellure and furs.

In BE, the first term that springs to mind is *mountain refuge*. As Tellure points out, this can incorporate a tourist facility such as a bar or restaurant. 

If the context were obvious, or with an explanatory note, _rifugio_ could also be used.

As a BE speaker, I definitely wouldn't use *mountain shelter* or *cabin*. I also agree with previous posters about the use of *hut*, which suggests something rather basic, although this is a term which is used.


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## Tellure

@furs: Non intendevo discutere l'uso di "refuge" o di "hut", solo proporre qualcosa che mi sembrava interessante.


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## wonderment

Also possible (common in AE): mountain escape or mountain getaway
(_getaway_ is more informal, can refer to "the destination or accommodations for a vacation" _Oxford American Dictionary_)


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## tranquilspaces

Strafi, where is the rifugio in question located?

 As someone noted earlier, British people are very likely to go skiing in  countries where English is not the local language, so it's both natural  and respectful to use a term from that place.

Americans usually don't leave our own country to go skiing, unless it's a  very luxurious and exotic vacation. Most of us who live in the Western  US go skiing in places like  Colorado, Wyoming, Utah, California, etc.... and those in the Eastern US  go skiing in places New York, Vermont, Maine, New Hampshire, etc...  Generally we would not use a foreign word to describe the lodging in  these places. To me it seems pretentious, actually... so as an American, I prefer mountain lodge, mountain cabin, mountain escape or mountain getaway as Wonderment suggested.

In AE, would neeeeeevver use _hut_. It's worse than basic, really... to Americans it suggests no electricity or running water, and in a poverty-stricken location.


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## Teerex51

wonderment said:


> Also possible (common in AE): mountain escape (...) mountain getaway



I'm afraid it wouldn't work in this context. 

As you're hiking up a trail or skiing down a run, you wouldn't ask someone: "_How far's the mountain escape (or getaway)_".


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## tranquilspaces

True. Lodge is best, in my mind. But cabin could work too.


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## Teerex51

I'm inclined to translate them as _lodges_ (especially those with bar/restaurant facilities) and _rangers' cabins_, when they're just basic accommodation for hikers and mountaineers.


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## Paulfromitaly

In Mammoth (CA) they call it simply lodge.


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## tranquilspaces

Probably why I like that word best, but again.... Where is the rifugio in question and are the skiiers in question mostly American? I'm guessing not....


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## london calling

tranquilspaces said:


> Probably why I like that word best, but again.... Where is the rifugio in question and are the skiiers in question mostly American? I'm guessing not....


No, I think the  original poster was talking about a _rifugio_ in Val d'Aosta like the  "Rifugio Torino", for example (which Furs linked to in an earlier post, a fantastic place if you like snow and your elbow isn't in a plaster cast like mine was when I went there, by cable car, which is the only way to get there!!) which has a bar, restaurant and accommodation.

In BE that to me is a "refuge". A _mountain lodge_ to me is something like this, which to me is not a refuge, it's more of a chalet. That said, here in Italy you have to distinguish between a real "rifugio" and places that they call a "rifugio" but that are, in matter of fact, mountain lodges/Alpine refuges (have a look here: some really are refuges, others are hotels, more or less).


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## tranquilspaces

I would submit that when you add the word "mountain" it  sounds a trifle more luxurious than just plain old "lodge"....  Additionally, I've found that Google pictures can be a trifle misleading as a vocabulary teaching tool in the category of hospitality, architecture and design because the fancier places are more likely to have their fancy pictures posted!  

To me, "lodge" in AE is a catch-all term that can range from the very simple/rustic/humble to the very luxurious and well-appointed.


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## MStraf

Maybe it is better if we take a step back and read again the original post:



krige said:


> Salve,
> 
> come si chiama in inglese il "rifugio" delle piste da sci? Per rifugio intendo un edificio (spesso in legno) bar-tavola calda (qualche volta hotel) dove ci si ferma a rifocillarsi e a riposare mentre si scia, spesso con i tavolini all'aperto durante le belle giornate.



krige is not talking _only _about a "lodge", but also just an organized-shelter (open only in spring/summer) where you can get a hot soup and a sandwich, sometimes it is possible to spend the night if you bring your own sleeping bag: no beds there, just a mat on the floor and no showers or private restrooms. As far as I know, there nothing like that in the States, travel agencies leave the word "rifugio" untranslated.

Quanti bei ricordi di gioventu', un sacco a pelo e via... adesso quando vado in montagna mi porto dietro la casa...


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## london calling

tranquilspaces said:


> To me, "lodge" in AE is a catch-all term that can range from the very simple/rustic/humble to the very luxurious and well-appointed.


I agree with that.  

What I'm saying is that a place like the "Rifugio Torino" is not the same (at least originally) as a lodge, be it humble or luxurious. Let me see: can you reach mountain lodges by car? In that case it's a sort of hotel, if they call it a _Rifugio_ or a _Refuge_, it's simply for the purposes of tourism.  

The original "Rifugio" was for mountaineers and people like that: of course, nowadays you take the cable car up. I quote Wikpedia:

_I rifugi alpini sono nati per aiutare i viandanti che in passato attraversavano le __Alpi__ e avevano bisogno di luoghi ove trascorrere la notte e rifugiarsi in caso di condizioni meteorologiche avverse. Negli ultimi decenni con lo sviluppo del turismo di montagna i rifugi sono diventati piccoli alberghi che, pur offrendo in molti casi solo servizi essenziali, ospitano non solo alpinisti ed escursionisti, ma anche turisti desiderosi di consumare un pasto durante una breve gita in montagna o durante una giornata passata sugli sci._


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## tranquilspaces

camping lodge?


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## magosil79

Sul sito del CAI (club alpino italiano), che è possibile consultare in tre lingue (italiano, francese e inglese) il rifugio è tradotto con _mountain hut_. Ovviamente altre traduzioni sono possibili, io ho letto in alcune guide anche _alpine hut_. Credo che la caratteristica principale di un 'rifugio' è che si può raggiungere per lo più solo a piedi, ovviamente le caratteristiche variano da rifugio a rifugio (ci sono rifugi spartani e altri di lusso).


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## Amaltamnena

I believe all three translations are Ok.
As an AI speaker I like *lodge* the best, as tranquilspace explained it can be a rustic and simple or luxurious and well organized. Living in Italy for the past 24 years has taught me that in Europe is better to use BI terms so *mountain hut/alpine hut*. At the same time if your speaking of an Italian mountain location *"rifugio"* would probably be the best.
Amaltamnena


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## london calling

Amaltamnena said:


> I believe all three translations are Ok.
> As an AI speaker I like *lodge* the best, as tranquilspace explained it can be a rustic and simple or luxurious and well organized. Living in Italy for the past 24 years has taught me that in Europe is better to use BI terms so *mountain hut/alpine hut*. At the same time if your speaking of an Italian mountain location *"rifugio"* would probably be the best.
> Amaltamnena


Do you mean AE and BE?

But I wouldn't use "rifugio" if I were speaking English. I'd say an "alpine/mountain refuge": sorry to insist, but if I said "rifugio" to my parents they wouldn't know what I was going on about! And as both I and Elfa said,  "hut" is not a term which immediately springs to the mind of a BE speaker, although it obviously exists and people use it.

Plus, as magosil confirms, a refuge cannot be reached by car. A mountain lodge is a completely different concept : you drive up in your 4x4, or whatever. It's not the same thing at all!


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## elfa

london calling said:


> But I wouldn't use "rifugio" if I were speaking English. I'd say an "alpine/mountain refuge": sorry to insist, but if I said "rifugio" to my parents they wouldn't know what I was going on about! And as both I and Elfa said,  "hut" is not a term which immediately springs to the mind of a BE speaker, although it obviously exists and people use it.
> 
> Plus, as magosil confirms, a refuge cannot be reached by car. A mountain lodge is a completely different concept : you drive up in your 4x4, or whatever. It's not the same thing at all!



LC, I agree entirely - we're definitely singing from the same hymn sheet


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## MStraf

london calling said:


> ... A mountain lodge is a completely different concept : you drive up in your 4x4, or whatever. It's not the same thing at all!


I agree.
For example (The one I know best) in Yosemite, California, all lodges are reachable by car (when they are open, some of them are close in the winter because the road is close. like White Wolf), and the closest thing to the Alps "rifugi" are the cabin tents in the High Sierra Camps (a lot of hiking there...)
See here:
http://www.yosemitepark.com/Accommodations_HighSierraCamps_LodgingDetails.aspx

But... these are the current days  Less than a century ago, Lodges were just a simple hut and a barn to keep mules and horses


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## db84124

I too have done a fair bit of climbing in many European countries and can assure you that the term used by British English-speaking climbers is “hut”. In Britain itself, the word used is “hostel” ….. I wonder if this is the word which several members had on the tip of their tongues. It has never been suggested in the thread. 
In its publications, the _Club Alpino Italiano_ (CAI) shows a fairly strong preference for the word “refuge”; even the directory of the Club’s own mountain huts has had its title translated as “Refuges and Bivouacs of the Club Alpino Italiano”. In the introduction and preface, hut and chalet are also used and one mention is made of lodge …. and hostel.
london calling (hello, Jo!) in Post #34 has copied & pasted a useful paragraph from Wikipedia; if she had switched the page from Italian into English, she would have been taken to a page entitled “Mountain Hut” which begins “also known as alpine hut, mountain shelter, and mountain hostel”. 
The fact that North American English speakers – and non-climbing BE speakers - associate “hut” with a shed-like construction offering sleeping space on the floor should not distract from the very word that Britain’s top climbers use spontaneously to describe a kind of mountainside building _dove ci si ferma a rifocillarsi e a riposare [mentre si scia], spesso con i tavolini all'aperto durante le belle giornate. _
I have been flicking through books by Chris Bonnington, Martin Moran, Paul Pritchard and Joe Simpson; they all – without exception - use “hut”. Obviously in the context of mountain climbing the adjective “mountain” is superfluous. There is no mention of lodge, refuge, rifugio, shelter, cabin or getaway. 
To Brits, _Rifugio Torino _is know as the “Torino Hut”, _Capanna Margherita_ is the “Margherita Hut”, _refuge du Goûter _the“Goûter Hut”and _Domhütte_ is called the “Dom Hut”. Each of these _rifugi_ offer beds (no need to lug a sleeping bag up to 3500+m!) which are often bunks and/or communal - that is, sardine-like - hot, freshly cooked meals, and, when the weather is appropriate, tables are set up on terraces, balconies or even steel gratings erected over precipitous drops. Wonderful! Drinks (wine and beer definitely, spirits maybe) are available.
An emergency shelter (_bivacco_) is exactly that: the simplest of buildings which of course offers protection and _may_ contain blankets, and possibly a stove and teabags, if you’re lucky! These are called “bivouac huts” in BE. 
But I’m under the impression that krige has something rather different in mind. Until we are told the location, function and patronage of his _rifugi_ , it is indeed difficult to come up with the most appropriate word. db84124


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## furs

I find that db84124 and I defintiely sing from the same sheet of music (we are fellow mountaineers, after all...).  I was stimulated by his reference to the UK climbing scene (which I know only marginally through books by C. Bonington, D. Whillans, J. Simpson and others), so I checked a bit more on line and found out that the Scottish Mountaineering club owns a few rifugi and guess what they call them: http://www.smc.org.uk/Huts/Huts.php.  I also found that what we call 'bivacchi' in Italian, i.e. really basic shelters, also exist in Sotland, and they are called 'bothies' (a term not yet surfaced in this thread, I think): http://www.mountainbothies.org.uk/.


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## giovannino

That was a really informative, wide-ranging post, db


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## london calling

Hello, db!

You should have climbed in a few posts ago! 

Ok then , _hut_ it is, if we're talking about the "Rifugio Torino". My apologies, ignorance is bliss but can cause great damage.....


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## MStraf

db84124 said:


> ...  _Capanna Margherita_ is the “Margherita Hut”,  ...



To call the "Capanna Margherita" a _Hut_ is like calling the Ahwahnee (Yosemite Valley)  a swamp:
_ ... Dotata di camere con letti a castello, sala bar ristorante, bagni in comune, illuminazione elettrica, corrente 220v, accesso internet, spazi riservati ai laboratori scientifici e ai ricercatori, biblioteca ...._ 
http://www.caivarallo.it/rifugi_cai_varallo/capanna_regina_margherita_rifugio.php
Originally it was a "capanna" (hut), thus it keeps the name, now it is huge and I will call it a Lodge.

Having said that, I agree that "hut" is the best translation for an Alps shelter (like the one described in the original post)


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## tranquilspaces

Haha, MStraf! Never been to the Capanna Margherita but you definitely got a laugh out of me with the idea of calling the Ahwahnee a swamp! 

Pictures for those of you to whom this reference is meaningless....


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## Amaltamnena

This is really a tough one! It's hard to get everyone to agree... in this case I agree with Tellure and would use *mountain refuge* i... though a few weeks ago when I posted a similar thread got a lot of people saying I should use hut... which to me is just doesn't sound right.
Amaltamnena


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## db84124

Amaltamnena said:


> ...... I should use hut ... which to me is just doesn't sound right.
> Amaltamnena


 
This point was already covered in Post #41:
“The fact that North American English speakers – and non-climbing BE speakers - associate “hut” with a shed-like construction offering sleeping space on the floor should not distract from the very word that Britain’s top climbers use spontaneously to describe a kind of mountainside building _dove ci si ferma a rifocillarsi e a riposare [mentre si scia], spesso con i tavolini all'aperto durante le belle giornate. _
I have been flicking through books by Chris Bonnington, Martin Moran, Paul Pritchard and Joe Simpson; they all – without exception - use “hut”. Obviously in the context of mountain climbing the adjective “mountain” is superfluous. There is no mention of lodge, refuge, rifugio, shelter, cabin or getaway. 
To Brits, _Rifugio Torino _is know as the “Torino Hut”, _Capanna Margherita_ is the “Margherita Hut”, _refuge du Goûter _the“Goûter Hut” and _Domhütte_ is called the “Dom Hut”. Each of these _rifugi_ offers beds (no need to lug a sleeping bag up to 3500+m!) which are often bunks and/or communal (that is, you all sleep sardine-like) “beds”, hot, freshly cooked meals, and, when the weather is appropriate, tables are set up outside on terraces, balconies or even steel gratings erected over precipitous drops. Wonderful! Drinks (wine and beer .... definitely; spirits .... maybe) are available.”

..... ALL English-speaking European climbers call them "huts". This is despite the strong tendency for Italians - and possibly the Spanish - to use the word "refuge" due of course to the similarity with words in their own languages [refugio and refugios(?)]. I've climbed in Italy, France, Switzerland, Austria, Poland, Scotland, Wales and England and I can guarantee one and all that by far the most frequently used word among people who make use of these structures is "hut", even among Italians and the Spanish who have overcome their personal preferences.
An Italian who calls a “mountain hut” a “refuge” is akin to his/her calling “a pillow” “a cushion” simply because it sounds like _cuscino_. For a _cuscino da letto_ (it should of course be _guanciale_) the English word is “pillow”; it is never referred to as a “cushion” (which is used for a _cuscino _on an armchair, sofa, settee or couch).

Having started, I’d like to add in answer to Post #45 ….
Hello there, MStraf,
As the thread is about the rendering of _rifugio_ in English and your having expressed your preference for the word "lodge" and brought the Ahwahnee into the equation, I assume you would call the Ahwahnee a "lodge". But ..... it calls itself the Ahwahnee Hotel. 
Agreed, you could _describe_ the Ahwahnee Hotel as a lodge but it is, in fact, a hotel.
..... so would you _really_ use the same word, i.e. "lodge", to describe this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jaimemartorano/4336068291/

and this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eelcovn/1186455446/

And these are both interior shots of lodges, right?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75925710@N00/3167343609/

and ....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/leeharrison/4125510114/ ??????

And this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28369618@N02/2693952728/

is the same - excuse my intrusion, Lady - as waiting until 96 rowdy mountain tourists decide to go to their previously-reserved bunk beds at 11.00pm so that exhausted climbers can stretch out and sleep on the floor of your “_sala bar ristorante” _[Post #45; please see your “restaurant cum bar” in the fourth link - I’d say “dining area” (BE) would be far more appropriate] until waking up at 3.30am to have breakfast at 4 o'clock in the morning before pushing on to the next peak (I’ve slept on the floor six times in eight visits – hardly AAA four-diamond accommodation!)
 
And you use the same word for both! Lodge. _Bravo_!!

For your next crusade, may I suggest you start calling chalk “cheese”.

Yours, db84124


PS Please read the captions to the shots carefully (all courtesy of Flickr).


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## MStraf

db84124 said:


> ... Hello there, MStraf, ...


Hi there!
I have been both at the Ahwahnee and at the Capanna Margherita (as many other _rifugi)_, more than once, there is no need for me to look at pictures (that just makes me sad I am sitting here in front of a computer) or to read captions.
I have been at Capanna Margherita both before and after the remodeling. It was called Capanna because it was originally a hut, we continue to call it "capanna" because it is its name, but for me it is not a 'hut' at all (a 'hut' with private rooms with bed and linens? c'mon) In fact, I never heard any Italians calling it "capanna" (unless by its name), but always "rifugio"

Anyhow. If you guys like and use the name 'hut', good for you! I am not arguing at all, I am even willing to use it as well, no problem at all here. As long as we understand that the _Capanna Osservatorio Regina Margherita_ is something more than just a little shelter.

PS Here it is called 'hotel':
http://www.monterosa.com/TrekkingToptours/CapannaMargherita/tabid/89/Default.aspx


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## db84124

Hello MStraf,
Thanks for the link.
Personally I would never consider an article which began "Nearly highest up on the Monte Rosa, Europe's other highest mountain ..... " as authoritative. It’s obvious that the translation was done from the Italian into English by the equivalent of a slow, grade 5 junior high school pupil.
Please open this link; it’s the official Club Alpino Italiano site:

http://www.cai.it/index.php?id=6&L=1

“Private rooms with bed and linens” at the Margherita Hut ???!? My, things really have changed in the last six years !!!!!
Thanks for your input and "Happy Climbing",
Sincerely, db


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## marcolettici

I think you'd be safe with "lodge."  If there are no amenities, a "primitive lodge" could work.


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## AWOL4mylo

"Mountain lodge" can be a very useful and general term, and can refer to anything from a hotel on a mountain to a one-room rest place where you can warm up and dry off for a minute, usually with a "snack bar" and bathrooms.  It is a little bit like a car-less "Autogrill" for skiers and hikers...  There are good ones, bad ones, clean ones, dirty ones, ones attached to motels and hotels, etc.   
I would hesitate to say that this broader interpretation (which is the most appropriate translation in many different circumstances) doesn't apply in the US!  The food and atmosphere tends to be a little more... American, but otherwise everyone tends to need the same types of services while spending their free time up on a cold mountain.


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