# as it is at the moment



## Elisabeth

as it currently is / as it is at the moment 
example: provided that it continues to rain, as it is at the moment, we won't have a hosepipe ban this summer.
Can you simple say comme maintenant, or comme à l'heure actuelle?
thanks


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## LV4-26

My suggestion :"comme c'est le cas actuellement"
You could use "comme en ce moment". It would be correct but might be ambiguous. Because it could also mean "*as much* as it currently does" which isn't exactly what you mean, I believe.


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## timpeac

How about simply "comme à présent"?


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## Agnès E.

Right Tim, and good!


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## fetchezlavache

isn't the english sentence a bit dodgy to start with ? shouldn't it be, provided that it continues to rain, as it _does_ at the moment ... if not, can someone explain to me what 'is' refers to ?


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## timpeac

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> isn't the english sentence a bit dodgy to start with ? shouldn't it be, provided that it continues to rain, as it _does_ at the moment ... if not, can someone explain to me what 'is' refers to ?


 
Good question.

First off, I can say that this sentence doesn't strike me at all as wrong. So to analyse your question -

"is" is better than "does" in fact. You are obviously aware that the "does" could stand for any verb. Well the "is" is standing for any verb in the continuous form. so

"provided that it continues to rains as it is raining at the moment".

"I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he is at the moment". Having thought about it "does" would actually be wrong in these examples. Does that make sense?


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## fetchezlavache

hmmm then i complicate matters too much.

to the nathalie grammar it would have been :

provided that it continues to rain as it does (rain) at the moment...


or :


provided that it's still raining as it _is_ at the moment...

but not a mixture of the two as you suggest. _provided that it continues to rains as it is raining at the moment_ still shocks me, in spite of your explanation...

and the example with snoring is the same. he is not doing anything. he is not snoring. the first part of the sentence says 'he snores', not 'he is snoring'. if you get what i mean.

boy am i hijacking elisabeth's thread...  

i might ask a moderator to please split this thread and pose my question in the english only forum...


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## beri

if it helps, you can translate "as things are at the moment" by "dans l'état actuel des choses"


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## timpeac

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> hmmm then i complicate matters too much.
> 
> to the nathalie grammar it would have been :
> 
> provided that it continues to rain as it does (rain) at the moment...
> 
> 
> or :
> 
> 
> provided that it's still raining as it _is_ at the moment...
> 
> but not a mixture of the two as you suggest. _provided that it continues to rains as it is raining at the moment_ still shocks me, in spite of your explanation...
> 
> and the example with snoring is the same. he is not doing anything. he is not snoring. the first part of the sentence says 'he snores', not 'he is snoring'. if you get what i mean.
> 
> boy am i hijacking elisabeth's thread...
> 
> i might ask a moderator to please split this thread and pose my question in the english only forum...


 
Fetchez, I see your point and I think I may have the answer.

It is the use of the phrase "at the moment". You would always use the present continuous with this phrase. "it is snowing at the moment" "he is working as a nurse at the moment" "he is skiing in the Alps at the moment". You couldn't use "do xxx" or the simple verb "skis (or whatever) with "at the moment" so this over-rules any agreement with the form of the verb in the first part of the sentence.


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## LV4-26

timpeac said:
			
		

> How about simply "comme à présent"?


timpeac and Agnes, if I were told
"_s'il continue à pleuvoir comme à présent"_ or "_pourvu qu'il continue à pleuvoir_ _comme à présent_"
I would understand
"provided it continues to rain *as much* as it is at the moment" ("is" surprises me too, but of course I'm perfectly willing to take the natives' word for it)
Don't take me wrong, this is what _*I*_ would understand. But it doesn't necessarily proves me right.
Now if this is exactly what Elisabeth means it's ok with me.


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## beri

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> "provided it continues to rain *as much* as it is at the moment" ("is" surprises me too, but of course I'm perfectly willing to take the natives' word for it)


well, it tickles me too, but I think it is the "is" from "is (raining)"

There has to be another way to say it so it's gramatically correct and more logical!


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## timpeac

beri said:
			
		

> well, it tickles me too, but I think it is the "is" from "is (raining)"
> 
> There has to be another way to say it so it's gramatically correct and more logical!


 
I wouldn't worry about rewriting it. In all honesty until Fetchez asked her question I wouldn't have even thought there was an issue there. It is fine English. I can see where you foreign speakers are coming from in trying to understand the grammar, but it's not wrong. I don't think it would have shocked the eye of a native speaker without reading these comments.


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## LV4-26

timpeac said:
			
		

> so this over-rules any agreement with the form of the verb in the first part of the sentence.


This makes perfect sense to me. Thank you, timpeac.


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## beri

no, no, sure it isn't wrong, but a bit... truncated


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## fetchezlavache

*thank you timpeac, oh mastah of grammah ! * 


and thanks elisabeth for your patience..


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## timpeac

A further comment -

"does" would be acceptable instead of "is" in the raining example, but it would not be acceptable instead of "is" in the snoring example. 

You wouldn't say "I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he does at the moment" "I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he is at the moment"

However you could say "I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he does at the moment for the rest of his life"

What's the difference? Well in the first sentence you are quite specifically talking about the fact that he is snoring right this second. You can't bear the thought of the rest of this night with him snoring like you can hear him right now.

In the second he is not (necessarily) snoring right this second but he snored last night and maybe the night before and you can't bear the thought of facing that for every day for the rest of your life.

So from this I conclude that the choice of "do" or "is" is a meaningful one, giving a nuance to your sentence.

So what's the difference between -

a - provided that it continues to rain, as it is at the moment
b - provided that it continues to rain, as it does at the moment

a - we need to to be raining as it is at the moment 
b- we need it to rain in the manner that it is at the moment

Since the implication of b is that the manner is "hard" the difference between these two sentences is small. The difference between the snoring sentences is large though.

Have I made it any clearer??

EDIT - sorry Elisabeth!!!


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## beri

I think "as it does" is a bit wrong, cause it implies simple present and simple present and "at the moment" seem kinda incompatible to me...


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## timpeac

beri said:
			
		

> I think "as it does" is a bit wrong, cause it implies simple present and simple present and "at the moment" seem kinda incompatible to me...


 
True, but remember "at the moment" doesn't have to mean "at this very second". If it means "generally at present" it's fine. For example, "It really annoys me when he slams the car door in the mornings, as he does at the moment". "Is" would be impossible here because the slamming is not currently in progress.


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## beri

oh you mean it would be like "these days", "these times" ? sounds weird... 
in French, it's ok to me with the long-lasting "en ce moment", but "at the moment" is to me the short-lasting "en ce moment"

so or esle we're not understanding each other, or esle it sounds weird to me and will stay so


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## timpeac

beri said:
			
		

> oh you mean it would be like "these days", "these times" ? sounds weird...
> in French, it's ok to me with the long-lasting "en ce moment", but "at the moment" is to me the short-lasting "en ce moment"
> 
> so or esle we're not understanding each other, or esle it sounds weird to me and will stay so


 
No I think we understand each other - as you say "at the moment" can mean "these days" or whatever, it doesn't have to mean "at this precise moment". Sorry if it sounds weird!!


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## beri

well, yuh, I hope you're very sorry !!!


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## gaer

fetchezlavache said:
			
		

> isn't the english sentence a bit dodgy to start with ? shouldn't it be, provided that it continues to rain, as it _does_ at the moment ... if not, can someone explain to me what 'is' refers to ?


 
Fetchez: You are referring to this, right?

_"Provided that it continues to rain, as it is at the moment, we won't have a hosepipe ban this summer."_

I agree with you. I think it's incomplete.

I understand it. It's idiomatic. But to me it seems that a word has been left out. I would write it this way:

Provided that it continues to rain, as it is DOING at the moment, we won't have a hosepipe ban this summer."

The central part of the sentence is emphasizing that something is going on, right now, and I think that "doing", referring to "raining" (WHAT is going on at the moment), is necessary.

Gaer


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## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> I wouldn't worry about rewriting it. In all honesty until Fetchez asked her question I wouldn't have even thought there was an issue there. It is fine English. I can see where you foreign speakers are coming from in trying to understand the grammar, but it's not wrong. I don't think it would have shocked the eye of a native speaker without reading these comments.


Sorry, this time I have to disagree with you. When I saw the sentence, it immediately jolted me. I didn't think about it. I just thought, that sounds a bit weird. 

Gaer


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## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> You wouldn't say "I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he does at the moment" "I couldn't bear it if he snored all night like he is at the moment"


Again, same point. I would write and say:

I couldn't bear it if he snored all night, as he is doing at the moment.

I want the extra word there.

I still believe that the word "doing" is necessary to complete the thought properly. 

Gaer


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## timpeac

gaer said:
			
		

> Sorry, this time I have to disagree with you. When I saw the sentence, it immediately jolted me. I didn't think about it. I just thought, that sounds a bit weird.
> 
> Gaer


 
No problem Gaer, if I ever found that everyone agreed on a grammatical point in these forums I think I'd die of shock!!


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## LV4-26

timpeac said:
			
		

> No problem Gaer, if I ever found that everyone agreed on a grammatical point in these forums I think I'd die of shock!!


Oh yes. I'm not prepared for that either.


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## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> No problem Gaer, if I ever found that everyone agreed on a grammatical point in these forums I think I'd die of shock!!


This was the last topic I answered last night. I was very tired, and I just needed to get away from the computer. I went walking, late at night, and during that time I thought about this whole topic. While talking, I suddenly felt that perhaps I had done just what you said, over-analyzed the problem. You may be right after all. 

It's such a tricky matter to consider these things, because things that are right suddenly sound wrong, things that are wrong begin to sound right. It's as if studying them closely changes them, temporarily.

I was thinking that SO much of what is right and wrong is context. And often we try to consider a sentence, alone, or even a word—alone. I can't tell you how many times I've decided that something just doesn't sound right shortly before running into it, used by a fine writer, in a way that sounds perfect.

Now, if this makes any sense, it will be a miracle. I'm too tired to be writing. 

Gaer


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## timpeac

gaer said:
			
		

> This was the last topic I answered last night. I was very tired, and I just needed to get away from the computer. I went walking, late at night, and during that time I thought about this whole topic. While talking, I suddenly felt that perhaps I had done just what you said, over-analyzed the problem. You may be right after all.
> 
> It's such a tricky matter to consider these things, because things that are right suddenly sound wrong, things that are wrong begin to sound right. It's as if studying them closely changes them, temporarily.
> 
> I was thinking that SO much of what is right and wrong is context. And often we try to consider a sentence, alone, or even a word—alone. I can't tell you how many times I've decided that something just doesn't sound right shortly before running into it, used by a fine writer, in a way that sounds perfect.
> 
> Now, if this makes any sense, it will be a miracle. I'm too tired to be writing.
> 
> Gaer


 
Oh right, thanks for telling me that. I must admit my heart sank a bit when I read your first message, as I thought I'd hit the nail on the head.

I think the "raining" example is particularly hard to work out because the meaning is very close whether you use "is" or "does". However, the snoring example seems clear to me (well I suppose it would seeing as it is mine!!). "if he snores as he is..." means as he is at this very second and "if he snores as he does..." refers to his general way of snoring.

In fact I think you can just look at whatever verb you are replacing. If this is a present continuous then use "is" if not use "does". So "if he continues to snore as he is snoring at this second > "as he is". Then we can get away from the argument of whether you use "is" or "does" because it just depends whether you would use the present continuous in the expanded form or not.

Thanks Fetchez for this little casse-tête! I hope you're proud of yourself...


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## gaer

timpeac said:
			
		

> Oh right, thanks for telling me that. I must admit my heart sank a bit when I read your first message, as I thought I'd hit the nail on the head.
> 
> I think the "raining" example is particularly hard to work out because the meaning is very close whether you use "is" or "does". However, the snoring example seems clear to me (well I suppose it would seeing as it is mine!!). "if he snores as he is..." means as he is at this very second and "if he snores as he does..." refers to his general way of snoring.
> 
> In fact I think you can just look at whatever verb you are replacing. If this is a present continuous then use "is" if not use "does". So "if he continues to snore as he is snoring at this second > "as he is". Then we can get away from the argument of whether you use "is" or "does" because it just depends whether you would use the present continuous in the expanded form or not.
> 
> Thanks Fetchez for this little casse-tête! I hope you're proud of yourself...


I guess my only point, which I expressed very badly, is that often the only time you have really "clear-cut" examples of "right and wrong" is when dealing with very elementary things. Language is complex and seems to defy being "neatly tied up". 

Gaer


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## RODGER

For me "beri" had the right translation pages ago. "as it is at the moment" could also be expressed as "as things stand at the moment" or "the way things are at the moment" so -- "dans l'état actuel des choses" 

It's a question of punctuation, forgotten art, if you say "If it continues raining as it is (doing) at the moment, then there will not be...." then you must translate "comme il le fait en ce moment" but if you have a comma then it must be "dans l'état actuel des choses" 

So bravo beri !


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