# Changing your name and/or surname



## Etcetera

Ciàu,

People may want to change their names and/or surnames for different reasons. For example, women change their surnames when they get married (that's not a rule, though). A person may also want to change their name because they don't like its sounding. That was, actually, the case with me - I've changed my surname because I didn't like the one I receive from my father. It wasn't really difficult, although the procedure took quite a long time and a considerable (for me) sum of money to pay the taxes. 

How it is in your country? Is it easy for a person to change their name? How do their friends, relatives and colleagues react to it? Is it something unusual to do?

I'm looking forward to your responses.


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## clairanne

Hi

In UK it is still usual for women to change to their husbands name, although some now choose to keep their own name if they are known by it in a professional capacity.   It is possible to change your name to anything you like by what is called "Deed Poll" this is quite cheap over here and there is no restriction to how many times you can do it.  The only people I know personally that have done this are women who are divorced and wish to return to their maiden name.


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## alexacohen

Hello:

In Spain you can change your surname easily if it is a derogatory surname. Usually you are asked to choose from another family name which is not derogatory. Insulting, or "stupid" surnames like Condom, Horrid, Brute, Wolfkiller... are changed with very little cost.
It is quite easy, too, if you want to recover some surname that, in the course of time, got misspelled somewhere. 

Women do not take their husband's surname when they get married. Not even as a second surname. 
(That may be a problem when visiting other countries where they do: hotel clerks do wonder when they see the different surnames of the couple who want one room, and can't see anywhere in the woman's passport that she is married to the man she's travelling with).

The only instance where people would laugh would be when someone decides to link several surnames in one just because they think it's soooo posh.


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## Etcetera

alexacohen said:


> In Spain you can change your surname easily if it is a derogatory surname. Usually you are asked to choose from another family name which is not derogatory.


That's interesting. I was told that I could choose any surname, and so I did. No problem. Although most people in Russia seem to believe that you can't just go and and say, Hey, I want that surname, just because I like the way it sounds. 
It may depend on the actual official you're dealing with. There are very different officials in Russia, some of them are pretty amiable, some take pleasure in bullying people who come to them. But I suppose it's more or less the same all over the world.



> Women do not take their husband's surname when they get married. Not even as a second surname.


In Russia, women still take their husbands' surnames. But less and less women actually do it.



> The only instance where people would laugh would be when someone decides to link several surnames in one just because they think it's soooo posh.


I've heard of women who took their husbands' surnames as second surnames. But it's something highly unusual for this country.


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## E180

Some more info about changing your name in the UK:

_ "In theory anyone who is at least 16 years of age and resident in the United Kingdom can call themselves whatever they wish. However, over the past hundred years or so, formal procedures have evolved which are recognised by all record holders, such as government departments, companies and organisations. These procedures, which require the production of “documentary evidence” of a change of name, enable a citizen to legally change their name on their passport, driving licence, tax and National Insurance records, bank and credit cards, etc._

_ Documentary evidence of a change of name can be in a number of forms, such as a marriage certificate, Statutory Declaration or deed of change of name (deed poll). Deed polls are by far the most commonly used method of providing evidence of a change of name other than changing a woman’s surname after marriage. A deed poll is a legal document which binds a single person to a particular course of action (in this case, changing one's name for all purposes)." (Wikipedia)._

But Scotland has its own legal system:

_It should be noted that citizens of Scotland whose births are registered need only to inform people and organizations (eg. bank, general practitioner) of their new name (deeds poll do not exist under Scots law). After two years the person can then apply to the Registrar General for Scotland to have their birth certificate amended to show the new name. This is in addition to changes of surname by marriage. Scots law requires only that no one change his or her name with the intent to defraud. The Registrar requires proof that someone has been living using their new name before an updated birth certificate can be issued. The easiest way to prove that is to have a passport or driving licence issued in the new name._


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## Etcetera

Oh, thank you so much, E180! That's very interesting.


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## SDLX Master

As provided by Law, no sooner you are of legal age, you are free to modify your name and last names, if you have a true reason behind the request. Now then, your reason needs to meet certain requirements, and like it or not, the procedure is costly.


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## mirx

Etcetera said:


> Ciàu,
> 
> People may want to change their names and/or surnames for different reasons. For example, women change their surnames when they get married (that's not a rule, though). A person may also want to change their name because they don't like its sounding. That was, actually, the case with me - I've changed my surname because I didn't like the one I receive from my father. It wasn't really difficult, although the procedure took quite a long time and a considerable (for me) sum of money to pay the taxes.
> 
> How it is in your country? Is it easy for a person to change their name? How do their friends, relatives and colleagues react to it? Is it something unusual to do?
> 
> I'm looking forward to your responses.


 

In México it is possible to change one's name, but so far I haven't met anyone who has done it.

I know though, that it is a very long procedure because it involves re-issuing of all legal documents such as: Birth cirtificates, driving licenses, school certs, marriage/divorce papers, ect. I beleive it to be expansive. As far as I am concerned, one is able to only change his first name, not last names.

Regarding to married women keeping their own surnames, that is not something new in México (and I believe in any of the Latin American countries plus Portugal and Spain). Traditionally women have always kept their maiden names.


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## coconutpalm

In China, it's most unusual for someone to change their surnames. Women in Hongkong or Taiwan change to their husbands' surnames when they get married, but this information might be dated, too. I'm not familiar. However, according to tradition, women are born to belong to another family. That's why we could call unmarried daughter 娇客 (respectful, delicate GUEST). We change our names if we find it disgusting or bad or we're in the need or want, but changing someone's surname MEANS something --- you might want to break from your family! (Criminals care less because changing their surnames hides them better.)
There is a folk tale about Lin Zexu林则徐, the hero in Qing Dynasty. It's said in the tale that his original name was not Lin Zexu, but Xu Zelin --- he inverted his name because he made an oath that he wouldn't change back unless he had fulfilled his aim. It took great determination to do so, and it showed great determination indeed.


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## Etcetera

SDLX Master said:


> As provided by Law, no sooner you are of legal age, you are free to modify your name and last names, if you have a true reason behind the request.


In Russia, a person can apply for changing their name/surname if they're 14 already (because Russian citizens receive passports at 14). But a teenager can change their name only if their parents support this decision. 
When you come of age, you can do with your name whatever you want.



> I know though, that it is a very long procedure because it involves re-issuing of all legal documents such as: Birth cirtificates, driving licenses, school certs, marriage/divorce papers, ect.


It's absolutely the same here. 



> We change our names if we find it disgusting or bad or we're in the need or want, but changing someone's surname MEANS something --- you might want to break from your family!


When I was at school, I got a handful of rather offensive nicknames based on my surname. It was really painful sometimes, so my parents didn't objected when I told them I wanted to change my surname to something more nice-sounding. 
As for breaking from one's family - I can see why changing surnames can be seen as a sign of it, but I'm sure that nuch more depends on the actual relationships within the family. I didn't stop to feel myself part of the family.


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## DrWatson

In Finland, when two people get married, they have three possibilities concerning the surname:

1) Both can keep their original surnames
2) Husband and wife can take a common name, either husband's or wife's
3) Either husband or wife can add the other's name into their's with a hyphen.

If you want to change your surname without getting married, you have to appeal to the municipal authorities with a written petition. You have to specify the reason for the name change. The name desired can't be inappropriate or against normal Finnish name customs, and without a special reason you can't change your surname to a "protected" surname, i.e. an established surname of a famous family.

There are also restrictions when baptizing children. Of course, the given names can't once again be inappropriate or against normal customs, except if there's a reason to give the child an unusual name, e.g. one of the parents is from abroad. There can be a maximum of three given names, and you can't give a boy a female name and vice versa.

If you wish to change your given names, the above restrictions are valid, and the name can be changed once without a specific reason. You just send a notice to the municipal authorities. The second name change is not automatic, however, but it requires a petition to be sent. This time there needs to be a valid reason.


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## coconutpalm

Etcetera said:


> When I was at school, I got a handful of rather offensive nicknames based on my surname. It was really painful sometimes, so my parents didn't objected when I told them I wanted to change my surname to something more nice-sounding.
> As for breaking from one's family - I can see why changing surnames can be seen as a sign of it, but I'm sure that nuch more depends on the actual relationships within the family. I didn't stop to feel myself part of the family.


 
Again, a matter of cultural difference. Surnames are very important in China. They are the symbol of a family (not a family of father, mother, children, but a big family, a clan).
Besides, Chinese is not totally the same with other languages. Of course there are some surnames don't sound good. For example, 朱zhu, which has the same sound of a pig. However, your name can make up for it. Surname + name can make a big difference.


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## Nanon

DrWatson said:


> In Finland, when two people get married, they have three possibilities concerning the surname:
> 
> 1) Both can keep their original surnames
> 2) Husband and wife can take a common name, either husband's or wife's
> 3) Either husband or wife can add the other's name into their's with a hyphen.
> 
> If you want to change your surname without getting married, you have to appeal to the municipal authorities with a written petition. You have to specify the reason for the name change.



It is pretty much the same in France, although according to usage, married women often used their husband's surname. This habit is changing gradually; more and more married women keep their maiden names or use both names with a hyphen. This may be linked to the fact that many women start their professional life before they marry and they do not want to change the name under which they are known.

If you want to change your name or surname, you have to send an application to the Ministry of Justice. The change has a cost. You should have a serious reason for changing your name, but a ridiculous name or combination is generally deemed acceptable.

There is a recent law (2003) according to which parents can transmit the father's, the mother's, or both surnames to their children, in the order they choose.


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## Lucky Luke

In Germany, you can change your name for some reasons, but thats expensive and can take a long time.

Some people of other origins did it that the name sound more German.


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## flame

In Austria the situation is like this:

you can change your (last) name when you marry - similar rules as reported from Finland/France

you can change your (last) name when you terminate your marriage

you can change your (first and/or last) name if one or more reasons match a set of reasons defined in the law (link in German)

Applications must be submitted to the district authority (Bezirksgericht)


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## Brioche

In Australia you can change your name if you want to. Just because you feel like it.

The new Premier of Queensland is a woman, Anna Bligh. Her husband is Greg Withers.
When they were expecting their first child, Mr Withers changed his surname to Francis, so that the child would have the surname Francis.
After the child was born, and the birth registered, he changed his surname back to Withers.

Some people deliberately give themselves stupid names.


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## palomnik

In the USA the rules are pretty much the same as in the UK, although the term "deed poll" is not used. Strictly speaking, all a person has to do to change their name is to start using the new name, but most people have it legally changed by court order, which makes it infinitely easier to change over bank accounts, credit cards, etc.

A great many immigrants to the USA a century ago virtually had their name assigned to them when they went through immigration control on arrival, especially if they did not speak English; anybody familiar with the "Godfather" movies will remember the scene where Vito Andolini unknowingly had his name changed to Vito Corleone when he arrived from Italy at Ellis Island in New York.

Many Irish surnames come in two forms, one "traditional" and the other "anglicized." Actually, the "traditional" form isn't really traditional; for a surname like O'Toole, which is the "traditional" form, the actual form in Irish is O Tuathail; the anglicized form is Toohill or even Tuttle. Irish who accepted the Church of Ireland in the 17th and 18th centuries often anglicized their names.


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## Kajjo

Etcetera said:


> How it is in your country? Is it easy for a person to change their name? How do their friends, relatives and colleagues react to it? Is it something unusual to do?


Situation in German:
1. Marriage: Both partners may keep their names or may choose one name for both. If they decide for the latter, the partner changing his/her name may add his previous name by hyphen. Most women still adapt the name of their husband. At divorce one may decide to return to his previous name.

2. Change of name just because of a desire to do so is not possible. You may apply for a change of name to the court for a limited number reasons (ridiculous or derogatory name, adaptation of foreign names, simplification of extremely difficult spelling of names, lack of distinguishing features of your name; gender-change transsexuality). This applies both to first name and surname (family name). Generally, the German courts are very restrictive with change of names and in principle one could say that it is impossible to change your name without very good reason to do so.

3. I have only met once a person who changed gender (boy > girl) and changed his name officially. I have never met any other person who changed his/her name and I dare say it is a rare exception in Germany.

4. Personally, I can imagine only very few cases in which I would support a change of surname. A name is meant to recognise people and it would open all doors to fraud and mischief to change names just by deciding for yourself.

Kajjo


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## alexacohen

Oh, I forgot to explain another one reasons why you can legally change your name in Spain: if one member of your family has done a hideous crime, and you have an uncommon surname, you might not want to be known as the brother/sister/cousin of a monster.
Then you can change your surname legally.


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## PABLO DE SOTO

In Spain you can also translate your surname to the regional languages as Catalan, Basque or Galician.
If your surname is Puyol, you can change it to Pujol, the proper way to write this surname in Catalan.
Some people have even changed their surnames to the Basque spelling, although their surname has a Castilian origin, so you can see Bakero or Billaberde instead Vaquero or Villaverde, trying to appear "more Basque".


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## Brioche

palomnik said:


> Many Irish surnames come in two forms, one "traditional" and the other "anglicized." Actually, the "traditional" form isn't really traditional; for a surname like O'Toole, which is the "traditional" form, the actual form in Irish is O Tuathail; the anglicized form is Toohill or even Tuttle. Irish who accepted the Church of Ireland in the 17th and 18th centuries often anglicized their names.



A lot of Irish people dropped their O [descendant of] or Mac [son of] in the seventeenth century, and then in the late 1800s there was a general resumption of O and Mac.

Occasionally they resumed the wrong prefix, and thus the name O'Gorman came into being, as well as the traditional MacGorman


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## Pedro y La Torre

In Ireland you can change your name to whatever you want as long it isn't offensive etc.

In fact most Irish people have two names, their English one and the Irish translation or vice-versa.

For instance, John Murphy would be known as Seán O'Murchadha in Irish. As far as I know either form can be used.


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## Lusitania

Etcetera said:


> Ciàu,
> 
> People may want to change their names and/or surnames for different reasons. For example, women change their surnames when they get married (that's not a rule, though). A person may also want to change their name because they don't like its sounding. That was, actually, the case with me - I've changed my surname because I didn't like the one I receive from my father. It wasn't really difficult, although the procedure took quite a long time and a considerable (for me) sum of money to pay the taxes.
> 
> How it is in your country? Is it easy for a person to change their name? How do their friends, relatives and colleagues react to it? Is it something unusual to do?
> 
> I'm looking forward to your responses.


 

In Portugal you can change your names and some surnames (we usually have plenty  ) by writing to the Ministry of Justice explaning the motives, you can also add other surnames runing in the family. It's not expensive, you have to go to the Civil Registration Office (where you register children, get married and get a death certificate for example).
It usually doesn't take longer than one year, its usually rather quick. This one isn't that expensive, I remember that it was around €100 or something.

If it's a case of sex change you can change it by appealing to a court and if you don't have children of your own, to avoid children have parents with the same sex, but surely this will change soon and it wont be a problem anymore. This will be more costly due to the judicial procedures.

Before the 1930's women would keep their own (maiden) surnames, when the dictatorship came they had to be Mrs X or W and take the surname and nationality of the husband (to make them invisible). After the revolution, this was abolished but still many women take their husbands name, also nowadays it's possibile for the husband to take the wife surnames. We still didn't got the trendy hifen Jollie-Pitt. Yet...


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## CrazyArcher

In Israel changing a name is very easy - one just has to go the Interior Affairs Ministry and submit a form. However, changing the name in the official documents can take time. At the other hand, citizens are identified by ID numbers and not by names, so it's not critical. Another point - when a person changes the name/surname, he's issued with a new ID card, but the previous one is written in the appendix for 8 years.

Actually till the 70's-80's it was a wide-spread practice in Israel for newcomers to change their European names upon arrival to Hebrew ones, or shortly after. People belived that it would help them integrate into society. The second name of the former prime minister Ariel Sharon, for instance, was Scheinerman. Another reason was ambiguity of Hebrew spelling, so a complex foreign surname written in Hebrew characters has very little odds to be pronounced correctly. Nowadays, however, people tend to stick to their roots more, and sometimes people revert their Hebrew surnames to the original ones their parents used to have.

As for women getting married - they generally take the huband's surname.


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## Hutschi

Kajjo said:


> 2. Change of name just because of a desire to do so is not possible. You may apply for a change of name to the court for a limited number reasons (ridiculous or derogatory name ...
> 
> Kajjo


 
Such names can be old names, where the meaning changed because of homonyms and lossing of the original meaning.

Example: "Ficker" - this sounds very derogatory and coarse for many persons.

In earlier times a "Ficke" (also in the spelling variant "vicke") was a kind of bag or pocket in a trouser or coat. "Ficker" was a profession of a person who made such bags (a kind of tailor). (There is also the name "Fickelscherer"= tailor for trouser pockets).

The word "Ficke" disappeared. So by folk etymology "Ficker" is reinterpreted as "fucker" by many persons. In Germany, you may change your name if you have such a name, but you are not forced to do so.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> In Spain you can also translate your surname to the regional languages as Catalan, Basque or Galician.
> If your surname is Puyol, you can change it to Pujol, the proper way to write this surname in Catalan.
> Some people have even changed their surnames to the Basque spelling, although their surname has a Castilian origin, so you can see Bakero or Billaberde instead Vaquero or Villaverde, trying to appear "more Basque".


 
Puyol is actually a mispelling of Pujol. As for Castilian names having them changed in the Basque Country... I guess it's the same with many Americans who changed or shortened their original second names after having lived in the States for a while. Many American names are, somehow, "made up". If I remember rightly, this is the case with Madeleine Albright, Andy Warhol, Paul Auster or Paul Newman, among many, many others.

As for names, I wanted to change mine into my diminutive some years ago and I was not allowed to by the stupid and unfriendly woman who I met in the registry office in my hometown. Then I forgot all about it but now I'm back to wanting to change it, since I do not see myself in my original name.


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## Hutschi

By the way, in Germany you can have one ore more "Künstlernamen" (artist names, authors names, pseudonymes.) As far as I know they could be entered in the documents but I do not know the current state.


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## Henryk

Hutschi said:


> By the way, in Germany you can have one ore more "Künstlernamen" (artist names, authors names, pseudonymes.) As far as I know they could be entered in the documents but I do not know the current state.



There's a popular footballer in Germany who wanted to have his nickname on his shirt like all those Brazilians. Though it was not that easy for bureaucratic reasons so that he looked for a way to realize it. So he made some oil paintings which he auctioned what allowed him to register his moniker as a pseudonym on his ID. So it's become an officially recognized name and he was allowed to use it for his back.


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## belén

My name was composted of 2 names, the first one that I hated and the second that I liked (Belén) ) so I decided to get rid of my first name around 10 years ago. 

I had to present a police certificate showing that I hadn't commited any crimes and I had to put together as many documents as possible showing that people knew me as Belén (letters from friends, video store membership card, etc...). Once the process had been accepted I had to go to an office in the Court and bring 2 witnesses that had to sign in a paper that I was known as Belén in my family and friends circle.

The worker had brought the original book where they had inscribed me when I was born and she scratched my first name out and wrote an appendix saying "on this day Belén blablabla" 

Then they gave me a paper stating that I had changed my name, with this paper I could go to all the official organisms and change my ID, Passport and that's it.

Edit: I would like to add that I didn't have to pay anything, as the question is being brought up in other cases.


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## kratu

belén said:


> My name was composted of 2 names, the first one that I hated and the second that I liked (Belén) ) so I decided to get rid of my first name around 10 years ago.
> 
> I had to present a police certificate showing that I hadn't commited any crimes and I had to put together as many documents as possible showing that people knew me as Belén (letters from friends, video store membership card, etc...). Once the process had been accepted I had to go to an office in the Court and bring 2 witnesses that had to sign in a paper that I was known as Belén in my family and friends circle.
> 
> The worker had brought the original book where they had inscribed me when I was born and she scratched my first name out and wrote an appendix saying "on this day Belén blablabla"


No wonder Spain is famous for its bureaucracy.


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## Alan Oldstudent

I believe in the United States, you may change your name unless you are doing it to commit a crime. Changing it is not too expensive or difficult. Females often change their names when they get married.

You can also have a business name, which is the name of your business. So if your John Smith, and the name of your business is Smith's Cleaners, you can do business under the name "Smith's Cleaners." But in most jurisdictions, you have to get a license from the local authorities for a "fictitious name." This is not expensive, and it is done for tax collection purposes.

Many people change their names if they convert to another religion like Islam, and there usually is no problem with that at all.

Regards,

Alan


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## jonquiliser

belén said:


> My name was composted of 2 names, the first one that I hated and the second that I liked (Belén) ) so I decided to get rid of my first name around 10 years ago.
> 
> I had to present a police certificate showing that I hadn't commited any crimes and I had to put together as many documents as possible showing that people knew me as Belén (letters from friends, video store membership card, etc...). Once the process had been accepted I had to go to an office in the Court and bring 2 witnesses that had to sign in a paper that I was known as Belén in my family and friends circle.
> 
> The worker had brought the original book where they had inscribed me when I was born and she scratched my first name out and wrote an appendix saying "on this day Belén blablabla"
> 
> Then they gave me a paper stating that I had changed my name, with this paper I could go to all the official organisms and change my ID, Passport and that's it.



My aunt, who lives in Sweden, did the same thing. I don't know if the process was as extensive, but the point was the same: to prove that she was known by the name she wanted to change to, so she had to bring letters and bills and things like that to show people really used that name. (And of course fill out the forms and all that.) I think it also cost a little, but I don't know how much.


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## Maja

DrWatson said:


> In Finland, when two people get married, they have three possibilities concerning the surname:
> 
> 1) Both can keep their original surnames
> 2) Husband and wife can take a common name, either husband's or wife's
> 3) Either husband or wife can add the other's name into their's with a hyphen.


 Same in Serbia.


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## raptor

I think that in Canada/US it is possible to change your surname to anything within reason. I heard of this one couple who married, and they took the first 4 letters from one name, and the last 4 of the other name, and came up with 'Rodester'.
A lot of rappers/actors etc change their name, for example, 'Ice Cube', but I think that is more of a statement or rebellion than anything.
I don't know about how much it would cost, or what kind of paperwork you would need to go through, but my guess is it would be difficult.


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## Haylette

alexacohen said:


> The only instance where people would laugh would be when someone decides to link several surnames in one just because they think it's soooo posh.


 
Personally, I dislike double-barelled names.  They are horrifically pretentious, but my parents were not married, so they decided to give me both surnames when I was born.

Though I've been tempted to change my surname from time to time, I can't bring myself to opt for one or the other.  It's hard to imagine cutting a name that you've had since childhood in half.

Still, lesson learnt - my children shall have ONE name.


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## Mumle Gaasegg

In Norway it's very easy to change your name, and you can change it to  almost whatever you want. A famous example (at least it's famous in Norway) is the comedian *Espen Thoresen* that in 2003 changed his name to *Espen Thoresen Hværsaagod*. The new addition "Hværsaagod" is an untranslateable expression that means someting like "here you are", "can I help you?" or "what can I do for you?". In 2005 he changed his name again, this time to *Espen Thoresen Hværsaagod-Takkskalduha*. The addition "Takkskalduha" means "thankyouverymuch". The reason why he changed his name was that he wanted longer credit cards  

In Norway you can change other persons name as well. A winter day in 2005 a man who was named *Eirik* received a letter from the local government. The letter confirmed that his new name is *Eirik Peirik Pling*. Well, apparently you could change other peoples name in Norway in 2005, but I don't think you can do that anymore. This change of name was due to a joke made by a friend , and since then the local government has changed - no not their name, but - their routines


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## Etcetera

Haylette said:


> Personally, I dislike double-barelled names. They are horrifically pretentious, but my parents were not married, so they decided to give me both surnames when I was born.


I know some people with double surnames, and it does sound a bit... unusual. But it depends on the actual surnames joined with a hyphen: there are some surnames which sounds really good (usually old aristocratic surnames, like Karnovich-Valois), and some that sound rather ridiculous.


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## Mahaodeh

In Arabic, you do not have a surname, but you do have a long list of names that come with your given name (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_name for details).  The only one you can change officially is your given name (in all Arab countries as far as I know) and even that can be difficult without a good reason such as a name with a bad meaning.

However, the long list of names is generally not used in everyday life and you can pick the ones you want to use and they would be correct both officially and casually.  Plus, you can use your kunyya instead of your given name so you don't even need to use that if you don't like it.  I've never met anyone who has even considered changing his name.

Married women never take their husband's name, in Arabic that would be absurd because it would mean that she is his sister and accordingly they can not marry.


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## jana.bo99

Hello Etcetera,

In my country sometimes you don't know what is name of the person living close to you. They are called by nickname from childhood. Then at once, you hear that she (mostly are women) has the really name.

I didn't know, what is my really name until 19 years of age, when I have finished Secondary school. At home I was called so, if you go to my "name" here (it is mixed), but my really, christian name I don't like anymore. It brings bad luck (that name translated means the same as Natasha). I have to change it officially.

Here is name Barbara changed into Barbka; Barbra. 
Some of them, even if they are not married, they change all: name and surname. Because of Numerology, although I don't believe, that other name can change somebody's life.

jana.bo99


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## Tetabiakti

In Holland, it's virtually impossible to change your surname - it's a true obstacle race and the outcome is by no means certain. In Holland, some people have got truly ridiculous surnames like Hoogeboezem (Buxom), Poepjes (Poopy) or Slettenhaar (Whore's Hair). 

Personal reasons for wanting to change your surname are not really taken into account - even your own mother's surname is off-limits, and permission to change your surname is rarely granted. In the end, it's the judge who decides and the state even submits you to a psychiatric assessment - how asinine is that? 

Paradoxically, this rule does not apply to women who want to take their husband's surname. 

However, this patriarchal custom is rapidly going out of fashion as many women choose to keep their own surname. A couple of years ago, new legislation was passed which leaves it up to the parents to decide which surname their children will get.


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## Aviador

Tetabiakti said:


> In Holland, it's virtually impossible to change your surname - it's a true obstacle race and the outcome is by no means certain. In Holland, some people have got truly ridiculous surnames like Hoogeboezem (Buxom), Poepjes (Poopy) or Slettenhaar (Whore's Hair).
> 
> Personal reasons for wanting to change your surname are not really taken into account - even your own mother's surname is off-limits, and permission to change your surname is rarely granted. In the end, it's the judge who decides and the state even submits you to a psychiatric assessment - how asinine is that?
> 
> Paradoxically, this rule does not apply to women who want to take their husband's surname.
> 
> However, this patriarchal custom is rapidly going out of fashion as many women choose to keep their own surname. A couple of years ago, new legislation was passed which leaves it up to the parents to decide which surname their children will get.



Hello

It is realy surprising this happens in a country that, in many other aspects and from the distance, seems to us a very liberal one. So you have your conservative side as well, don't you? .

Well, in Chile it is relatively easy to change your name or surnames provided there is a reasonable cause, but a judge will need to process your requirement. You will normally need the assistance of a lawyer, but if you cannot pay for one, the state will provide you with the necessary support for free.

Accepted reasons for a change of name are:
1) To have been known –like an artist– by a certain name for at least five years.
2) That the name or surnames are ridiculous and cause the bearer embarrassement or dishonor.
You can change your name only once in your life though.

The names of people are formed in Chile like it is done in most of the spanish speaking world:
1) We all have one or more names (most people have two like _Juan Alberto_)
2) We all have two surmames (never more than two and never less than two) where the first one after the names is our father's first surname an our second surname is our mother's first surname. i.e.:

_ Juan Alberto González Pérez _(never a dash between surnames)
- _González_ is his father's first surname
- _Pérez_ is his mother's first surname

If this guy marries a girl called _Marta Cecilia Castro Aguirre_, their daughter will be something like _Gloria María González Castro_.
This happens because women here never take their husband's surname when they get married. This is not a legal option and socially not a custom here. In the past, some married women –for social purpose only– used to add to their name the preposition _de_ (_of_) followed by their husband's surname (like _Marta Castro de González_). This is something that clearly women don't want to do anymore: "_I'm nobody's property!_".

In relation to this, there are a few other details that I'd better keep for later if there is any interest on your part. I don't want to bore you.

Bye


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## Hutschi

Hi, in TV I saw a broadcasting about names in Germany. There is a difference whether you are a "Staatsbürger" (a German inhabitant) or not (a foreign inhabitant). If you are a foreigner, it may be difficult to change the name. You need a lot of documents and have to go to your ambassador in this case. You should consider this especially when you transfer your name to Latin letters. The parents of the person transfered his surname to "Hitler" - and this caused him a lot of problems he was not aware before. He should have choosen "Hetler" or something similar. The German could not change the name, and his own country didn't support it until now.


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## Tetabiakti

Aviador said:


> Hello
> 
> It is realy surprising this happens in a country that, in many other aspects and from the distance, seems to us a very liberal one. So you have your conservative side as well, don't you? .


 
You are absolutely right about that, and many expats living in Holland have commented on this conservative side of Dutch culture. Like I said, I find it quite mind-boggling too that our government chooses to interfere into people's private lives like that. This is the kind of regulation you would expect in a totalitarian society like the former Soviet Union or in Franco's Spain. 



> This happens because women here never take their husband's surname when they get married. This is not a legal option and socially not a custom here.


 
This is something I really appreciate about Spanish-speaking societies. The Dutch and the Chilean example show that cultures are not always what they seem to a superficial observer. Sometimes, the tables are actually turned! 

On a side note: I have never been to Chile but I have read Isabel Allende's autobiography, 'Mi país inventado', in which she stands back to observe her own culture. I always like that kind of perspective, and I try to apply it to my own society as well. 



> I don't want to bore you.


 
You're not boring me at all!


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## L4ut4r0

Aviador said:


> In the past, some married women –for social purpose only– used to add to their name the preposition _de_ (_of_) followed by their husband's surname (like _Marta Castro de González_). This is something that clearly women don't want to do anymore.



You don't seem to read the social pages of El Mercurio  All birth announcements have parents names such as Juan González Pérez and Marta Castro de González. On marriage announcements more than 90% of parents names are like that. And on death announcements it may be around 50% of married women that have _"de"._


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## L4ut4r0

Aviador said:


> 2) We all have two surmames (never more than two and never less than two) where the first one after the names is our father's first surname an our second surname is our mother's first surname. i.e.:
> 
> _ Juan Alberto González Pérez _(never a dash between surnames)
> - _González_ is his father's first surname
> - _Pérez_ is his mother's first surname


I want to clarify two things. 

1) What Aviador calls one surname can be formed of two simpler ones. For example, Ernesto García-Huidobro Ruiz-Tagle has two surnames, the paternal one is García-Huidobro and the maternal one is Ruiz-Tagle. However García, Huidobro, Ruiz and Tagle are surnames on their own  way. Then Pedro García Huidobro (no hyphen) is the son of Mr. García and Ms. Huidobro. 

2) There are Chileans with only one surname. I know four of them. One is Pablo Neruda, the poet, who legally changed his name (originally he was Neftalí Reyes Basoalto). Another is former presidential candidate Manfred Max-Neef who hyphenated his father's and mother's surnames. Another is a guy I know personally who did the same. He positively has no second surname. And the fourth is a woman whose father is unknown; she proudly assures you that her only surname is the maternal one. 

However if you have to fill in a form in a Chilean web page, your are almost sure to be forced to enter two surnames.


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