# FR: I like French - definite article



## jbash94

The other day I said "J'aime français." Someone pointed out to me that he BELIEVED that you are supposed to use an article before the direct object in French? So, would you say "J'aime le français?"

Thanks,
Jared


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## newg

Hello jbash94 and welcome to the WR forums  

Yes, you have to use the article here. 
_J'aime le français._

Same rule with different languages :
_J'aime l'allemand._
_J'aime l'anglais._
_J'aime l'italien._
And so on...


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## Tim~!

jbash94 said:


> Someone pointed out to me that he BELIEVED that you are supposed to use an article before the direct object in French?


You certainly use it much more often than in English in these cases.

However, your friend's advice is not quite perfect.  For example, if you're using a proper noun as your direct object, you probably won't need one.

_J'aime Tim_ not _J'aime le Tim_.

In general, though, your friends advice is pretty good.


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## snarkhunter

Tim~! said:


> However, your friend's advice is not quite perfect. For example, if you're using a proper noun as your direct object, you probably won't need one.


This is true if you're considering people's names.
But it is no longer when talking about places, monuments, etc...

_J'aime Tim_

_J'aime le Louvre_


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## Tim~!

Which is why I said "probably" won't need one.  I was aware of examples where he would 

By the same token, _J'aime Paris_, rather than _J'aime le Paris _so my example is not only limited to people's names, and your example of excepting place names isn't 100% watertight anyway


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## snarkhunter

In the case of Paris, (most) city names are considered just as people's proper names! But not country/district names.

I now understand how confusing this can be...


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## jbash94

Thanks! This clears a lot up. My French teacher is very...vague in her teaching. She doesn't teach a whole lot of the grammar rules and stuff.


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## lrosa

newg said:


> Yes, you have to use the article here.
> _J'aime le français._
> 
> Same rule with different languages :
> _J'aime l'allemand._
> _J'aime l'anglais._
> _J'aime l'italien._
> And so on...



Are there times when the definite article is omitted before languages? Would you say: "Je parle français" or "Je parle le français"? Or does it depend on context?


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## snarkhunter

lrosa said:


> Are there times when the definite article is omitted before languages? Would you say: "Je parle français" or "Je parle le français"? Or does it depend on context?


It's all the same! There might be some kind of subtlety about this but, even as a native, I have to admit I'm just unable to tell for sure!

Still... I think I would say "Je parle français" if I were actually speaking French while saying this! But, generally speaking, I could write "I can speak English"... and here I'm not actually speaking, only writing about doing so. But saying "Je parle le français" would sound rather strange to my own ears since I do (... obviously!). Unless I meant it as a form of irony. Such as : "Je parle le français... _you know!_"

I'd say a French person would never say "Je parle le français" : he/she would only say "Je parle français". But perhaps a foreigner would, as this would then be a foreign langage to her/him.

And I'm almost certain the naked truth is a bit more _fuzzy_ than this...

A weird question it is, definitely!


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## newg

snarkhunter said:


> It's all the same! There might be some kind of subtlety about this but, even as a native, I have to admit I'm just unable to tell for sure!
> 
> Still... I think I would say "Je parle français" if I were actually speaking French while saying this! But, generally speaking, I could write "I can speak English"... and here I'm not actually speaking, only writing about doing so. But saying "Je parle le français" would sound rather strange to my own ears since I do (... obviously!). Unless I meant it as a form of irony. Such as : "Je parle le français... _you know!_"
> 
> I'd say a French person would never say "Je parle le français" : he/she would only say "Je parle français". But perhaps a foreigner would, as this would then be a foreign langage to her/him.
> 
> And I'm almost certain the naked truth is a bit more _fuzzy_ than this...
> 
> A weird question it is, definitely!


 
I agree, as a native I would never say "Je parle le français" ... 
It sounds... bââh.


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## lrosa

But coming from a foreigner, it wouldn't sound so strange?

Is this because you expect foreigners to say things that sound strange, or does it actually sound natural - as in, "le français" is actually what you would say (and it would sound idiomatic) if it were not your native language? 

Is "Je parle..." the only sentence in which you can imagine omitting "le". 
And what if you were talking about learning French in school: would you say "On apprend *le *français à l'école"?


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## snarkhunter

lrosa said:


> But coming from a foreigner, it wouldn't sound so strange?
> 
> Is this because you expect foreigners to say things that sound strange, or does it actually sound natural - as in, "le français" is actually what you would say (and it would sound idiomatic) if it were not your native language?


No, I don't expect foreigners to say strange things - honest! It's just that this happens, you know... but please rest assured that the natives are often up to the job!



lrosa said:


> Is "Je parle..." the only sentence in which you can imagine omitting "le".


A pretty interesting question... I'd tend to reply "yes", but this might require further investigation, just to make sure.



lrosa said:


> And what if you were talking about learning French in school: would you say "On apprend *le *français à l'école"?


Yes I would - no doubt about this!

I think the "le/-" issue only arises from "parler".


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## newg

In : "On apprend *le* français à l'école" you CAN'T omit the article. 

Coming from a foreigner it wouldn't sound so strange, absolutely


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## newg

snarkhunter said:


> A pretty interesting question... I'd tend to reply "yes", but this might require further investigation, just to make sure.
> > On va manger chinois ce soir snarkhunter ?  A moins que tu ne préfères manger *LE* chinois d'en face


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## snarkhunter

... Hahahaha!
Dans ce cas, ce serait "manger le *C*hinois", n'est-il pas ?!

Par ailleurs, je dirai juste que l'expression "manger chinois" - et quelle que soit la nationalité de la cuisine en question - est tout sauf du bon français, ce qui remet passablement en cause la démonstration !


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## newg

Oui le Chinois.

Peut-être faux mais énormément employé. Toutefois j'en conviens que tout ce qui est dit à l'oral n'est pas toujours juste à l'écrit. 
C'était juste histoire de glisser un exemple, à part le verbe "parler" j'ai également du mal à trouver un autre exemple...


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## jann

Greetings all,

At this point I am concerned that the thread has strayed rather far from the original question about definite article usage in translating, "I like French."  I'm afraid we can't just have a meandering thread in which people discuss a variety of minimally-related or unrelated examples.

We have already discussed "I speak French" extensively, e.g., here:
FR: Je parle français bien / Je parle bien le français 

An exhaustive presentation of French definite article usage is not practical in a single thread, nor would it be within the scope of the forums.  If that's what you need, please refer to a site that aims to provide a more textbook-like presentation of grammar information (e.g., here, here).  

This discussion is now closed.  Thanks for your understanding. 

Jann
Moderator


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