# 見たとします



## Kenshiromusou

Yo, friends.
Reading my interview, I got a new doubt.
Could you help me again?
(Context)目パチにしても原画で描くのは開いた目と閉じた目だけですから、その間の動画がちゃんとしていないとだめなんだけど、その時に瞳の見え方がどう変わるかとか、いろいろな見せ方がある。
もちろん時間がないとか、動画の外注先が海外だったりとかで、そこまでできないこともあるんですけどね。(Context) 
でも例えば、忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を*見たとします*よね。
What is verb-た+とする? I just know 見るとする and 見ようとする. Does he assume he saw the movies?
Thank you very much.


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## DaylightDelight

It's a form of subjunctive mode.
"If I watched the finished movie..."


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> It's a form of subjunctive mode.
> "If I watched the finished movie..."


The same as 映画を*見た*ら... ?!
What weird; I think I never learned this variant.
I assume that よね works like: "If I have seen the movie I was engaged in... [I would do something]" Is it correct?
Thank you very much, my friend.


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## DaylightDelight

Kenshiromusou said:


> The same as 映画を*見た*ら... ?!


映画を見たら is more like "*when* I watched the movie..." and it implies that I actually watched it.
On the other hand, 見たとする implies that I did not actually watch it.
I guess it's more like "If I should watch the movie..." or "Should I watch the movie...".

よね here doesn't have any logical/semantic function. It's something like "you see?" or "with me so far?".

From the context you gave above, I would expect this text to go on like this:
"Should I watch the finished movie that I personally spent some time on, [then I would find it more
satisfactory than the ones that have been subcontracted or the ones I worked on only perfunctorily.]"


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## frequency

Kenshiromusou said:


> The same as 映画を*見た*ら... ?!


Good. Suda? is giving a "for-example" case: a hypothesis.
_If you/one, for example, watched.._
忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を_見た_としますよね。
忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を_見る_としますよね。

In Japanese, both are okay. （いいよね？）But I think 見た is _slightly_ better.


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> 映画を見たら is more like "*when* I watched the movie..." and it implies that I actually watched it.
> On the other hand, 見たとする implies that I did not actually watch it.
> I guess it's more like "If I should watch the movie..." or "Should I watch the movie...".
> 
> よね here doesn't have any logical/semantic function. It's something like "you see?" or "with me so far?".
> 
> From the context you gave above, I would expect this text to go on like this:
> "Should I watch the finished movie that I personally spent some time on, [then I would find it more
> satisfactory than the ones that have been subcontracted or the ones I worked on only perfunctorily.]"


Ah, so it's like _portuguese imperfect_/_past subjunctive.
But I confess I did not understand the logical implication here.
He says when there is no time or douga's subcontractor is foreigner, he can't improve the images.
"But, for example, even busy, if I watched a movie in which I participated and completed, I... 
Looks he put himself at subcontractors place to say he would be ashamed. [because the movie is already finished] or "Even busy, if you watched the movie you completed, you... [would not like].

Thank you very much. _


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> Good. Suda? is giving a "for-example" case: a hypothesis.
> _If you/one, for example, watched.._
> 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を_見た_としますよね。
> 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を_見る_としますよね。
> 
> In Japanese, both are okay. （いいよね？）But I think 見た is _slightly_ better.


Suda is so perfectionist, so I'm trying to understand the logical implication here.
"Even busy, if you watched the movie you completed, you..." [sadness, embarrassment...]
Thank you very much, my friend.


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## DaylightDelight

Ah, now I know the source of your confusion.
In this context, 忙しくても does not modify 映画を見る, but 手を入れて完成させた.



Kenshiromusou said:


> 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を見たとします


So this sentence translates as: If I should watch the movie to which I spared some time even when I was busy...

So he admits sometimes he cannot spend enough effort to the work.
But, if he can somehow manage to find some time to spend on it, then ...
(and the rest is not said yet, but I'd expect it would be something like this:
the improvement would surely show in the finished movie.)


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> Ah, now I know the source of your confusion.
> In this context, 忙しくても does not modify 映画を見る, but 手を入れて完成させた.
> 
> 
> So this sentence translates as: If I should watch the movie to which I spared some time even when I was busy...
> 
> So he admits sometimes he cannot spend enough effort to the work.
> But, if he can somehow manage to find some time to spend on it, then ...
> (and the rest is not said yet, but I'd expect it would be something like this:
> the improvement would surely show in the finished movie.)


I understand he worked and completed movie in despite of being busy.
However, "If he had the opportunity to see the movie..." In fact, He saw the finished movie. He was 作画監督.
With 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を直したとしますよね, would be easy to understand "if he can somehow manage to find some time to spend on it, then ..."
頭が悪くてすまん。
Thank you very much, friend.


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## DaylightDelight

Kenshiromusou said:


> 頭が悪くてすまん。


Not at all.  As often happens with spoken language, the logical conjunction is not always clear in this text.

Okay, let me have another go, from the beginning.

The overall logic goes like this:
In the pretext you gave above, Suda regretfully admits that he couldn't always spend as much effort
to his work as he liked, because some works were subcontracted, and sometimes he was too busy.
Then, with でも例えば, he starts speaking about different kind of works, into which he could somehow
manage to put his personal effort. And the implication is that the latter should be different from the
former, presumably for the better.

Now about the subjunctive 見たとします:
As I said earlier, subjunctive conditionals are counterfactual in most cases, but they are not necessarily so.
Here Suda says "Suppose I watched the finished movie..." and this works whether he actually watched it or not.

Another interpretation of this sentence is that the subject of 見た is not Suda:
"(わたしが) 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を (あなたが or だれかが) 見たとしますよね".
In this case, the if conditional is purely counterfactual or hypothetical.

Either way the implication is the same: If someone (Suda, interviewer, or anybody else)
should watch a movie that Suda had spent some time on, then that someone would
find it to be better than the other kind (which Suda could not spend enough time).


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## frequency

You're always welcome.



Kenshiromusou said:


> Suda is so perfectionist, so I'm trying to understand the logical implication here.


Yes, you can understand that from this statement: 目パチにしても原画で描くのは開いた目と閉じた目だけですから、その間の動画がちゃんとしていないとだめなんだけど、その時に瞳の見え方がどう変わるかとか、いろいろな見せ方がある。

He says he needs more motion/steps in the process of a blink, not only two steps of open eyes and closed eyes. lol  And he says that he can show a blink in various ways, and the blink could be more attractive.

He wants to do such a careful job, but he says he sometimes can't do because he has no time or outsources film producing to an overseas firm: もちろん時間がないとか、動画の外注先が海外だったりとかで、そこまでできないこともあるんですけどね。

Next, he starts a new but related topic with a hypothesis: 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を見たとしますよね。

"For example, you watch a movie that is made by any careful/necessary jobs despite (staff's) busyness."

忙しくても手を入れて means that you're busy but don't give up, and do your best as much as possible. And perhaps Suda is implying himself in this hypothesis: he'd do even if he's busy. He's not mentioning any special sadness or embarrassment.


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## Kenshiromusou

DaylightDelight said:


> Not at all.  As often happens with spoken language, the logical conjunction is not always clear in this text.
> 
> Okay, let me have another go, from the beginning.
> 
> The overall logic goes like this:
> In the pretext you gave above, Suda regretfully admits that he couldn't always spend as much effort
> to his work as he liked, because some works were subcontracted, and sometimes he was too busy.
> Then, with でも例えば, he starts speaking about different kind of works, into which he could somehow
> manage to put his personal effort. And the implication is that the latter should be different from the
> former, presumably for the better.
> 
> Now about the subjunctive 見たとします:
> As I said earlier, subjunctive conditionals are counterfactual in most cases, but they are not necessarily so.
> Here Suda says "Suppose I watched the finished movie..." and this works whether he actually watched it or not.
> 
> Another interpretation of this sentence is that the subject of 見た is not Suda:
> "(わたしが) 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を (あなたが or だれかが) 見たとしますよね".
> In this case, the if conditional is purely counterfactual or hypothetical.
> 
> Either way the implication is the same: If someone (Suda, interviewer, or anybody else)
> should watch a movie that Suda had spent some time on, then that someone would
> find it to be better than the other kind (which Suda could not spend enough time).


ようやくわかりました。友よ、本当にありがとうございました。


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## Kenshiromusou

frequency said:


> You're always welcome.
> 
> 
> Yes, you can understand that from this statement: 目パチにしても原画で描くのは開いた目と閉じた目だけですから、その間の動画がちゃんとしていないとだめなんだけど、その時に瞳の見え方がどう変わるかとか、いろいろな見せ方がある。
> 
> He says he needs more motion/steps in the process of a blink, not only two steps of open eyes and closed eyes. lol  And he says that he can show a blink in various ways, and the blink could be more attractive.
> 
> He wants to do such a careful job, but he says he sometimes can't do because he has no time or outsources film producing to an overseas firm: もちろん時間がないとか、動画の外注先が海外だったりとかで、そこまでできないこともあるんですけどね。
> 
> Next, he starts a new but related topic with a hypothesis: 忙しくても手を入れて完成させた映画を見たとしますよね。
> 
> "For example, you watch a movie that is made by any careful/necessary jobs despite (staff's) busyness."
> 
> 忙しくても手を入れて means that you're busy but don't give up, and do your best as much as possible. And perhaps Suda is implying himself in this hypothesis: he'd do even if he's busy. He's not mentioning any special sadness or embarrassment.


ようやく分かりました。友よ、本当にありがとうございました。


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