# this thing like seeing, only not with my eyes



## sleepCircle

Hello everyone! Thank you in advance for your kind forbearance, because it's me, with another video-game question.

In the game, Portal 2, there are hidden places in the levels, where you can find the frantic scribblings left behind by a schizophrenic scientist.

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net...ision/latest?cb=20130119192338&path-prefix=en

There are verbs in the sentence, but the sentence itself is unfinished, and reads a little strangely. If the sentence was complete, it would be like "This thing _is_ like seeing, only not with my eyes." or "This thing like seeing, only not with my eyes, _does something._"

Also I'm not sure how to translate the feel of the sentence. The words are very simple, but the way they're arranged is sort of formal and poetic.

Here is my best shot!

この「見てる」かのごときこと
但、我が目を使っていず

this thing like seeing
only not with my eyes


Does the sentence need a 'です' or 'である' if the original English sentence was also incomplete?
I'm not sure if 我が is too archaic, if it should've been 我の instead, or if it should have just been 私の
I wasn't sure if it should be "使っていません" instead of "使ってません"
I have no idea if "〜ていず" is allowed or is appropriate in this case.（•＿＿＿•）
Anyway, thank you for your consideration, and I hope you all have a good day.


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## karlalou

The image is too dark and small that I can't recognize much.. but I like your translation very much. I wonder how you come up with this. It has so ancient and beautiful feel to it. 

Just I'd say it will sound better if it's spelled out fully and make it 見ている. 

Other than that, I can't tell if it's correct or not. lol Don't use です or である or 使っていません or 使ってません. These are just too ordinary comparing to what you've written unless otherwise someone knows very well about these kind of ancient writings says no no, it's wrong.


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## sleepCircle

Ah, thank you very much! I would be really happy if I could reproduce the feel of the original message.

http://combineoverwiki.net/images/5/57/Ratman_art_09.jpg I found a much better picture, I think. Maybe a moderator could move it into the original post? I can't seem to edit the post myself.


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## frequency

sleepCircle said:


> この「見てる」かのごときこと
> 但、我が目を使っていず


Good!

Using です and 使っていません makes the sentences very practical and usual like you say 私は日本人です or お腹が空きました.
So if you want to make it cool, your way is the best!　I don't recommend you to correct your best shot.
(である would give a different effect, but I think you don't need it.)

Is that a message by the scientist to you or a player to warn something? It seems so.


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## YangMuye

If 見てる feels too casual, perhaps you can say 見たる?


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## frequency

うん、確かに・・interchangeableなんだよね？'見たる' sounds more serious or stiff, doesn't it?


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## karlalou

Maybe the 'こと' of この「見てる」かのごとき*こと* should be もの or if you know it's a human then 者.. I think.


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## coomin

This reminds me of an old Sanskrit verse (I don't remember where I read it though) . In the verse, "seeing" means 見ること　and eyes means 眼 (not 目）

If the sentence carries the similar feeling, then it goes like:

このこと、見ることであるかの如き。
但し、我が眼にて見るにあらず。


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## sleepCircle

karlalou said:


> Maybe the 'こと' of この「見てる」かのごとき*こと* should be もの or if you know it's a human then 者.. I think.



If I understand correctly, I think 'koto' is the right one, because he's talking about the _idea_ of 'seeing' something and—if I understood correctly—もの and 者 are more about physical things that exist. I'm not sure though! By the way, I did change it to 見ている like you suggested, thanks!



coomin said:


> This reminds me of an old Sanskrit verse (I don't remember where I read it though) . In the verse, "seeing" means 見ること　and eyes means 眼 (not 目）
> 
> If the sentence carries the similar feeling, then it goes like:
> 
> このこと、見ることであるかの如き。
> 但し、我が眼にて見るにあらず。



Ah, that might be a little too old fashioned… although I'm not sure! Thank you very much for the suggestion though, I'll have to study it to figure out the different meaning and feel!

This might be stupid, but I didn't know you could use 'こと' twice in a row like that! I thought it would sound redundant. I might just be thinking like an English-speaker, though. It's hard to get the exact feel of a translation right.

Anyway thanks everyone! I'll keep thinking about this.


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## coomin

>I didn't know you could use 'こと' twice in a row like that! I thought it would sound redundant.
It's ordinary for us to use 'こと' twice in a row, though I am not a specialist.

Since I am not a specialist, I guess made a mistake in Japanese.
I think  '如き'should've been '如し'

>that might be a little too old fashioned
I'm interested what makes you feel my translation is too old fashioned, since I thought I wrote the same way you translated, though when I translate Sanskrit into Japanese, I always use modern way of saying things.


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## sleepCircle

coomin said:


> I'm interested what makes you feel my translation is too old fashioned, since I thought I wrote the same way you translated, though when I translate Sanskrit into Japanese, I always use modern way of saying things.



Oh, I was mistaken. I'm terribly sorry!

I didn't realize 'あらず' was just 'ある' with the same 'ず' that I had just used, and my first reflex was to look up the word on jisho.com which said "it is not so      _Archaism_," and provided an example sentence from the Bible. I just sort of assumed from there, but jisho.com ALSO said "this looks like an inflection of ある with these forms: zu-form, it means 'without doing verb'." and I just missed that in my haste.

I'm very sorry for the trouble.

Maybe my own translation is too archaic? The framing of original English sentence sounds sort of like the poetry of Emily Dickinson, which is around 150 years old. I'm not sure what an equivalent time for Japanese would be—I think languages change at different rates, don't they?

By the way, thank you for everything! I really appreciate the time you've taken to help me, and the help everyone on the forum has offered. I'm very much obliged to you all.


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## YangMuye

Though ず is frequently used in formal writting, にあらず, which means ではない, is definitely archaic.
But because quotes written in Classical Japanese pop up here and there, I think all Japanese speakers should feel familiar with it.

Expressions like ことであるかの如く does not sound really archaic to me. People lived before World War II were likely to write in that way.

I didn't understand your English setence until I read coomin's translation. But I still feel a bit difficult to understand how _a thing (the object in the picture)_ is equal to _an action_.


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## sleepCircle

Well, in English, a 'thing' can be almost anything. It can be an object, idea, time, place, action, or almost anything else—I think the only thing a 'thing' can't be is a person (but it can be the CONCEPT of 'person.') The writer is trying to describe a state, or a concept, which is LIKE the action of seeing, but which doesn't have a name of its own. So, when the writer says "this thing like seeing," the word 'thing' gets its meaning as an 'abstract concept of an action' from the word it's attached to.


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## 810senior

Hi sleepCircle. 

My attempt:
これを見ること _things like seeing something_
ただし目で追うべからず _but do not chase them with your eyes



sleepCircle said:



			この「見てる」かのごときこと
但、我が目を使っていず
		
Click to expand...

_
It might be better if you wrote it over like this.
この見るが如きこと
但し、我が目を使っておらず

「見てる」 called イ抜き言葉 sounds so colloquial that it doesn't match the atmosphere of the very sentence. (I think it goes well only with a present tense)
いず also makes sense but おらず sounds more natural to me.


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