# your accent in other languages



## jess oh seven

I spent eight months in Spain and my Spanish has undoubtedly improved, but I'm not so sure about my accent .... I can't really tell if my native accent is really strong when I speak Spanish or not, and I don't especially want to record myself and listen back and endure such pain... 

Plus I've been having issues with the "c" before "i" and "e" pronounced like "th", since my first Spanish teacher taught us more "Latin American" Spanish and didn't have that accent, so I never learned it initially. my main problem is I develop a CONSTANT lisp and say "s" with a lisp and everything too, the worst is when I say my nationality, it comes out "es-co-thay-tha". NOT GOOD!!!! haha.

Also, most of the time I can't say the Spanish "rr". This annoys me. It's improved, but I can't maintain the sound. Every time a Spanish news reporter rolls the r in "por" I get a little more bitter.

So what's your accent like in the language(s) you're learning? Have people commented on it? What difficulties do you have?


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## JLanguage

I definitely have an accent when I speak Hebrew, although I consciously try to make it less pronounced. I have noticed the same accent in other American English speakers when they were speaking Hebrew. I have great difficulties pronouncing the r-sound correctly and can't make the distinction between the ch as in scottish loch and the aspirated h-sound.


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## ayed

I have a hybrid accent(British English +American English).I could simply mimic the English native speaker .However, the problematic is that I don't know so far whether my language is understandable or not.I feel that if I pronounce English in my own native disposition , the hearer might not understand me.Another problem is pronouncing any poly-syllabic words such as Extra-ordinary but under much exercises , my skill developed .Just pratice , practice and practice.
I once heard an American says:"Intersection" as "Innersection"and it is easy to say , but my prof.asked me no to do so.Why ?I don't know.!!
So, learning any language is listening to native speaker too much and try to mimic how he does that.
Ayed's regards


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## joensuu

When I open my mouth to speak English ... everybody know I'm French !!! I have an horrible accent and way to speak and it's worse than I try to correct it


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## Lin

I am Japanese.  When I speak in Spanish, I have a difficulty to pronounce diferentely "r" and "l" same in English since we don't have any difference in pronouncing these words in Japanese.  My Spanish friends used to make me pronunce "loro" many times and I seldomely cound pronounce it very well.  The prounciation of "j"　in Spanish ,too.  In Japanese pronunciation of "rr" sound a little bit "mafioso" so at the beggining, it cost me to pronunce it.  Now I managed "rr" so I sound like mafia when I speak in Spanish!


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## Phryne

HI!
I definitely have an accent when I speak English, but it's so weak that nobody has any idea where it's from. Funny enough, this weekend while I was in New Jersey, a 12-year-old girl told me I have no accent at all, and her friends said I have a "New York accent" (they meant a "Brooklyn accent"). I definitely don't have a Brooklyn accent but the kids just heard something funny about my speech and since I’m from “the city”, they thought that's what it was. Anyway, it's not just my accent what makes people realize that I'm foreign, but the word choice and some mistakes made here and there.

 Any American I’ve talked to can’t pinpoint what’s different about the way I talk. I care so much about pronunciation that I became really good at it but the problem is that the muscles in my mouth and throat are stiff and I can’t make certain sounds without a slight effort. I think it is that effort I make what suggests my foreign nature. For this reason, I have to be quite conscious about pronunciation.

 What’s most difficult for me is to remember where there’s a /v/ sound, a /z/ (mainly plurals) since we don’t have any of those sounds in Spanish and as a child I used to pronounce the /v/ as a /b/ and the /z/ as an /s/. (No teacher of mine ever bothered to correct any of these). I used to have problems with / š / as in “*sh*oe” and /dš / as in “*j*uice”, but now I’ve overcome this. Also, I have to pay attention to vowels that don’t exist in Spanish, like the differences between “cut” and “cat” and “sheep” and “ship”. Most times I say any of these perfectly, but sometimes, mainly at night when I tired, my tongue may slip a little bit. And a few words are very hard for me to say fast enough in a sentence, like “murder”… the /d/ next to the /r/ drives me insane! 

Nevertheless, I speak sooooo much better than I write... that's why this forum is so great for me! 

 saludos


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## jess oh seven

ayed said:
			
		

> I have a hybrid accent(British English +American English).I could simply mimic the English native speaker .However, the problematic is that I don't know so far whether my language is understandable or not.I feel that if I pronounce English in my own native disposition , the hearer might not understand me.Another problem is pronouncing any poly-syllabic words such as Extra-ordinary but under much exercises , my skill developed .Just pratice , practice and practice.
> I once heard an American says:"Intersection" as "Innersection"and it is easy to say , but my prof.asked me no to do so.Why ?I don't know.!!
> So, learning any language is listening to native speaker too much and try to mimic how he does that.
> Ayed's regards


I have a British/American accent too, but I don't think it creates too much of a problem. Although I do get teased for saying things like "gah-RAGE" instead of "GAH-rage" for garage etc.


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## jacinta

jess oh seven said:
			
		

> i spent eight months in Spain and my Spanish has undoubtedly improved, but i'm not so sure about my accent.... i can't really tell if my native accent is really strong when i speak Spanish or not, *and i don't especially want to record myself and listen back and endure such pain... *



But, jess, this is the best way!  I remember talking for hours into a tape recorder when I was first learning (French and Spanish).  It is really very helpful to hear yourself, privately of course!    My French never took hold but I could hear where I was having difficulties.


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## fenixpollo

ayed said:
			
		

> I once heard an American says:"Intersection" as "Innersection"and it is easy to say , but my prof.asked me no to do so.Why ?I don't know.!!
> So, learning any language is listening to native speaker too much and try to mimic how he does that.


I agree, Ayed.  Teachers can become so obsessed with "correct" pronunciation that they forget the real purpose of learning other languages: communication!  If you can hear the differences between the natives and the 'textbook' pronunciations, and mimic the natives, then good for you.

For the record (if anyone cares), when I speak my second language, I have a Mexican accent.  Like Phyrne, I've worked very hard to imitate a "standard" pronunciation (as I hear it), although it goes away when I'm really tired and I sound like any other americano learning Spanish.  

The interesting thing is meeting other Americans who learned Castillian pronunciation.  Speaking Spanish with other native-English speakers who have different Spanish accents than yours is a truly surreal experience.


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## ayed

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> I agree, Ayed. Teachers can become so obsessed with "correct" pronunciation that they forget the real purpose of learning other languages: communication! If you can hear the differences between the natives and the 'textbook' pronunciations, and mimic the natives, then good for you.


Sometimes , I hear the native  pronounces words faster and easier than I do in my own natural dispostion.So, I guess(I have to  )mimic him for this purpose.
I could simply distinguish between two TV or Radio broadcasters or even "voice overs" of different English .That is, I could say :"This is English or American". 
I could write down well but to speak there is no enough English environment for me to practice  .Some classmates of mine often tend to tease me saying:"Speak or not speak..You are of Arabic tongue whether you soar up into sky or dive down on earth  .
Thanks 
Ayed


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## LV4-26

English was my main foreign language at school first, then in the Translation School later. I went to England quite a few times from the age of 12 to 19 or so.
People could tell I was French at the beginning of the month...but not at the end. I remember my English teenaged friends saying that I said certain words like an Englishman (those I heard most frequently during my stay - slang words for most of them  - I remember my best success was _f***** hell!   _Which was only natural since my friends kept saying that repeatedly so it was easy to imitate their pronunciation like a regular parrot).

I've not been to England lately but I've been practising my English as a guide for English speaking tourists. What I know of my accent is what native speakers tell me.
- the Americans always take me for an Englishman
- the English sometimes take me for an Englishman at the beginning.
- then, after a while, they realize I'm not but they can never tell where I'm from. (some say "perhaps somewhere in Northern Europe, like Norway or something but I don't know, really"). They're usually very surprised to learn I'm French.

My accent depends on the difficulty in expressing myself. It's all right if it's a simple sentence. I start sounding "not-English" when it comes to difficult sentences, or when I'm tired or...angry ( ). I suppose this goes for everyone, doesn't it ?

Of course, it's definitely more Brit than AE since I've never been to the US.
As for the location in the UK, I think I adapt to the accent of the people I'm speaking to except when it's the first time I hear it. (same in French btw, when I spend some time in the South of France, I easily end up with a Narbonne accent, only I don't roll the 'r's  ). So you could say it wanders from Bournemouth to Liverpool.


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## Encolpius

jess oh seven said:


> ...so what's your accent like in the language(s) you're learning? have people commented on it? what difficulties do you have?



Hello, I do not have problems to speak without accent, but the problem is the correct grammar. It is what you must learn. I speak only fluent Czech and I tell you it is not so good if you speak a language without an accent as a foreigner.


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## Sepia

There will always be some accent left - noticed by some and unnoticed by others. The question to ask is, what do we expect? If the pronounciation reaches the level where one is understood by everybody, that is where some people want to go. Others want more. In that case, there is really no way around really listening to tape recordings of ones own voice and to compare which phonems are still causing trouble. If one really wants to be taken for a native speaker, I suggest they first find out which native dialect has most similarities with ones own accent, as long as it is one that is generally understood. That can make things a lot easier. I could make a long list of the places in North America where Americans thought I came from. 

I wouldn't bother too much about this, though. I think it is OK that people can tell that I grew up in one of the partly Danish-speaking communities when I speak German. You can usually tell whene someone comes from Berlin or Bavaria too, right. But when you are among Americans it sometimes sucks when they know you are a foreigner: They often speak to you as if you were a retard, explaining every two words and asking if you understand them.

When my sister lived in London they usually took her for a New Zealander.


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## Encolpius

Sepia said:


> ...But when you are among Americans it sometimes sucks when they know you are a foreigner: They often speak to you as if you were a retard, _explaining every two words and asking if you understand them_...



I think it's cool. It is so hard to find patient people like those. I think the opposite can be worse. They think you are a native and start speaking as fast as they can.


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## JamesM

I worked very hard in college to imitate my French professor... who was German.  I didn't know any better. Of course, I ended up with a German accent in French that still pops up from time to time.     I've actually had people ask me what part of Germany I come from when I'm speaking French.

I've worked hard to standardize my accent a little more over the years but I know I'll never sound like a native.  I'm fine with that.  I just don't want to ever sound like the ugly American saying  "parr-lay vooz Ann-glaze".  It hurts my ears. 

If I won the lottery I think one of the first things I would do would be to move to France and enter an immersion program for at least three months.  It sounds like heaven to me.


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## Encolpius

JamesM said:


> I worked very hard in college to imitate my French professor... who was German.  I didn't know any better. Of course, I ended up with a German accent in French that still pops up from time to time.     I've actually had people ask me what part of Germany I come from when I'm speaking French....



Amazing! It reminds me of a Hungarian emigrant who taught English in Portugal. Imagine that Portuguese speaking English with Hungarian accent. That are really nice stories and events.


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## vianie

I think, Slovaks (practically as all Slavics) have the most troubles when speaking in other language with their "uhhhh" sound.



Encolpius said:


> Hungarian emigrant who taught English in Portugal. Imagine that Portuguese speaking English with Hungarian accent.



Absolutely no offense, but for me as for Slovak, British English is an English with a slight Hungarian accent. Just listen some songs from "The Streets". BTW, I personally like British English more than American one.


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## Encolpius

vianie said:


> ...Absolutely no offense, but for me as for Slovak, British English is an English with a slight Hungarian accent. Just listen some songs from "The Streets". BTW, I personally like British English more than American one.



Very interesting comment, it haven't ever occurred to me. I feel no Hungarian accent in British English, but our -a-and their -o- is almost the same.


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## clevermizo

Encolpius said:


> I think it's cool. It is so hard to find patient people like those. I think the opposite can be worse. They think you are a native and *start speaking as fast as they can*.



I agree with this. My foreign accent in speaking Arabic is minimal, which unfortunately has convinced people in the past that I might be a native speaker. When I ask them to slow down or repeat something it is occasionally surprising to them. In fact, my Arabic is a lot more fluid than it was 2 years ago, but nevertheless people speaking at native speed is still sometimes a problem for me.  Maybe I should start adding a little accent back in.


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## Encolpius

Sepia said:


> There will always be some accent left - noticed by some and unnoticed by others. The question to ask is, what do we expect? ...



Of course I agree, *there is always some accent left*, I must confess I am not an actor at the National Theatre or newscaster at the main national radio, but not long ago I have had an interesting event which proofs my Czech is rather good. I have been honoured by a local who said "you know, we Czechs" when he talked to me and his talk had a rather xenophobic overtones about a neighbouring country and I really felt honoured.  I mean it.


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## chifladoporlosidiomas

I've managed to rid myself COMPLETELY of my English accent in other languages for the simple fact that I hate hearing English speakers butchering foreign pronounciations. Only thing that lets people know that the language is not my first language is when I start to slow down and overthink what I'm saying. Other than that, I get mistaken as a native speaker a lot.  I guess it's because I'm still young that it's been so easy for me to not acquire an accent. 

Spanish: Depending on with whom I speak, my accent is either Iberian, Porteño, or Mexican
French: Mix of québecois and européen
German: Austrian Accent xD
Portuguese: Brazilian (whoot!)


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## sokol

chifladoporlosidiomas said:


> German: Austrian Accent xD


You might fool Germans to take you for an Austrian native but I'd be hugely surprised if you could fool me.  (Just kidding. 


Anyway, on topic:
My accent in English is "British Austrian".
My French accent is "French Austrian" (with plosives pronounced unvoiced in all positions, as this is how I learned French - occasionally, as I learned to pronounce voiced plosives later, I try to do them in French too).
My Slovene accent is "Slovene Austrian" (with barely managed voiced plosives).
And my Spanish accent is probably mixed "Austro-Slovene Ibero-Mexican Spanish" (with voiced plosives "taken" from my Slovene, and pronunciation Mexican concerning interdentals but probably a wild mix else).

I do not have a problem speaking with an accent - that is, even though I know that I've got an accent (and even though I try to minimise it), this isn't a problem for me when talking - I don't "feel" restricted through my accent. (I feel restricted through lack of vocabulary, especially in French, Spanish and Slovene, and in the latter the additional problem of using inflection correctly in speech kicks in).

When speaking a foreign language I never was mistaken for a native speaker; this only happened to me occasionally when writing (in English only, I'm not proficient enough in any of the others).

But if I really concentrate I may be able to utter a sentence or two without any traceable accent - but that's something I cannot do in fluent speech: so native speakers quickly realise the non-native background whenever I open my mouth. 
(Except, of course, when speaking my native Austrian German.)


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## Encolpius

Servus, Sokol, if the German PRO7 would ask you to have a 20-min interview, would you be able to speak on TV as perfect as nobody could recognize you are from Austria? (I've got the feeling you would prefer speaking Austrian, but would you be able to?). Thanks.


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## Vanda

> My accent in English is "British Austrian".
> My French accent is "French Austrian" (with plosives pronounced unvoiced in all positions, as this is how I learned French - occasionally, as I learned to pronounce voiced plosives later, I try to do them in French too).
> My Slovene accent is "Slovene Austrian" (with barely managed voiced plosives).
> And my Spanish accent is probably mixed "Austro-Slovene Ibero-Mexican Spanish" (with voiced plosives "taken" from my Slovene, and pronunciation Mexican concerning interdentals but probably a wild mix else).


You are the best, Sokol! When I was younger, better, till my first time abroad I thought I spoke English with American accent, then I went to England and discovered that I spoke the American variant with Brazilian accent and all the other Brazilian people that I knew and thought they spoke English without accent! Since the first time I travelled abroad and from that time on, I am more and more convinced that no one bothers which accent do you have as long as you can make yourself understood. The closest the better! Ah, only in Italy I am taken as an Italian till the conversation deeps and I begin stuttering looking for words. 
Now I am pretty much like Sokol, and very proud of it:
My accent in English is "American Brazilian".
 My French accent is "French Brazilian".
My Spanish accent is a perfect Portuñol.
My Italian accent is pretty much Italian - well - the 20 sentences I can say by heart!

Sokol, you have never told me how do you speak Portuguese!


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## curly

I can usually go a few minutes without giving myself away, but sooner or later I'll have a syntax issue or I won't recognise a word and will have to ask what it means.

The longest I ever went was with a doctor's secretary, she was verifying my information and looked at my nationality with a little frown.

I don't sound like an anglophone but most people still figure I'm from somewhere else. I've been thinking of picking up a regional accent from somewhere far from where I live, that way people might just assume I'm from Belgium or the south of France, I get awfully tired of having the British/Irish discussion.


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## sokol

Vanda said:


> My Spanish accent is a perfect Portuñol.


Lovely!



Vanda said:


> Sokol, you have never told me how do you speak Portuguese!


I fear my Portuguese sounds pretty much Austrian too. 
(The few words I can say in Portuguese, which I guess I can count on both of my hands. I can read Portuguese in a fashion, understanding the odd word or phrase, and I can pronounce it after a fashion, but I'm not really capable of speaking it - that is, I don't think I could say a single well-formed sentence in Portuguese. Except for "Obgridao!" of course. )


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## phosphore

I've been trying for quite some time to acquire a British accent but pretty much with no real success, especially because I have never been to Britain or spoke to a real British person. But I've been told by Canadians and Australians that my accent sounds really British, so I couldn't fool a British certainly, but I could perhaps fool speakers from other areas. I would say Dutch British. The biggest problems I have are with vowels (too many of them) and the intonation.

For all my life I have though that I had no accent in French because I started learning it at the age of six, but that was before I actually went to France. Now unfortunately I know that I have quite an accent even though at a few occasions people thought I was French. My accent doesn't sound particularly Slavic, it's just not native. I would say long-term Slavic immigrant in Paris. The biggest problems I have are with /r/ and /y/ (especially together).

My native phonology has the biggest similarities with Spanish and that's where I have the biggest chances to sound native one day, but I've been learning Spanish for only two years and even though I don't have an accent on single words, I haven't acquired the Spanish intonation. I would say short-term Slavic immigrant in Madrid. The biggest problem I have is with the intonation and sometimes with mixing /r/ and /rr/.

As to my native tongue, I love imitating speakers from Croatia, Vojvodina and Bosnia, and I've been told I do it pretty good, especially for the first two. My accent is otherwise varying from standard Serbian to local Belgrade accent.


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## Pedro y La Torre

curly said:


> I can usually go a few minutes without giving myself away, but sooner or later I'll have a syntax issue or I won't recognise a word and will have to ask what it means.
> 
> The longest I ever went was with a doctor's secretary, she was verifying my information and looked at my nationality with a little frown.
> 
> I don't sound like an anglophone but most people still figure I'm from somewhere else. I've been thinking of picking up a regional accent from somewhere far from where I live, that way people might just assume I'm *from Belgium or* *the south of France*, I get awfully tired of having the British/Irish discussion.



 I get this sometimes too. I can put on a pretty good standard accent but get caught out with long-winded syntax or an unknown word, my pronunciation of which generally provokes widespread amusement. 

I often get told that Irish people put on the best French accents of any anglophones, or at least the ''softest''.  It might be that the French just aren't familiar with the Irish accent though, which I suspect is more likely.


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## ilocas2

Sincerely, my English is so awful, so the accent is last thing I care. For me the most important thing is be able to *communicate*.


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## curly

Pedro y La Torre said:


> I get this sometimes too. I can put on a pretty good standard accent but get caught out with long-winded syntax or an unknown word, my pronunciation of which generally provokes widespread amusement.
> 
> I often get told that Irish people put on the best French accents of any anglophones, or at least the ''softest''.  It might be that the French just aren't familiar with the Irish accent though, which I suspect is more likely.


That's something I've always been curious about. The only way that I can think of to prove it would be to get a non-anglophone, non-francophone to listen to a Frenchman and an Irishman speaking the two languages, and compare them to other accents.

It's probably one of those mysteries like taste and colour that will never be solved.

I hate that fact that I never know if people are just being polite... I really should never have watched The Truman Show...


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## Rallino

My native language is Turkish as you can see on my profile. I think I speak French almost without an accent. I always ask my French friends about my accent, they say it's really good (maybe they are being polite? )

I've never been to an English speaking country. I've always imitated what I heard from tv. And now I feel that my accent is a mix, though mostly British.

I speak Italian fluently, but when I speak it, I can hear my Turkish accent. I just know that I don't sound very well...

My Hungarian friends tell me I have a good accent, but I don't believe in them  I am putting so much effort to clearly distinguish the o a and á when I speak. And sometimes I terribly fail.

And my Japanese...I don't know about my accent. I'm trying my best, but have got no comments concerning my accent so far.


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## Southdown

Hallo Everyone,

I have read all the comments on this thread and agree with those who find that the object of language learning is communication. I find the obsessional desire to hide one's true identity misguided. Of course, it is rightly the desire of all of us to pronounce our languages as well as possible but it seems to escape many writers' notice that foreign accents can be attractive to the listener. I would hate a situation where all foreign visitors to Britain were British-clones, obsessed with hiding their diversity. On these forums British English is referred to as if all Britains talk identically. This is not the case, as the spoken language is pronounced differently in say London, Glasgow and Cardiff. All that really matters is the ability to communicate.

My main languages are German and French but two years ago I started to
learn Portuguese formally at London University. To do that, I had to have achieved a certain standard and, due to my having Portuguese friends where I live and in Portugal, I speak with a European Portuguese accent. I was wary of the fact that I was entering a course of Brazilian Portuguese taught by Brazilians but these fears were totally unfounded. The worldwide Portuguese peoples appear to celebrate the diversity of their backgrounds but at the same time their sense of community. 

To me, listening to one's own voice critically is the only way to proceed. Teachers and listening can only go so far; the finer touches are provided by the horror of hearing one's own inadequacies which then urge improvement.


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## Rallino

Southdown said:


> ...
> On these forums British English is referred to as if all Britains talk identically. This is not the case, as the spoken language is pronounced differently in say London, Glasgow and Cardiff.
> ...



Of course. Neither is there a single American Accent. A New Yorker speaks differently than someone from Ohio. But overall, you can say if someone's accent resembles to UK accents or US accents.


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## phosphore

Southdown said:


> Hallo Everyone,
> 
> I have read all the comments on this thread and agree with those who find that the object of language learning is communication. I find the obsessional desire to hide one's true identity misguided. Of course, it is rightly the desire of all of us to pronounce our languages as well as possible but it seems to escape many writers' notice that foreign accents can be attractive to the listener. I would hate a situation where all foreign visitors to Britain were British-clones, obsessed with hiding their diversity. On these forums British English is referred to as if all Britains talk identically. This is not the case, as the spoken language is pronounced differently in say London, Glasgow and Cardiff. All that really matters is the ability to communicate.
> 
> My main languages are German and French but two years ago I started to
> learn Portuguese formally at London University. To do that, I had to have achieved a certain standard and, due to my having Portuguese friends where I live and in Portugal, I speak with a European Portuguese accent. I was wary of the fact that I was entering a course of Brazilian Portuguese taught by Brazilians but these fears were totally unfounded. The worldwide Portuguese peoples appear to celebrate the diversity of their backgrounds but at the same time their sense of community.
> 
> To me, listening to one's own voice critically is the only way to proceed. Teachers and listening can only go so far; the finer touches are provided by the horror of hearing one's own inadequacies which then urge improvement.


 
I suppose most of us think of RP when we say British English.

Anyway, in English this is probably not the case but in many languages, like Russian or French, every little accent other than that of the standard variety seems to mark you as an undereducated person. This is also true for my native tongue and I guess that is why I try as much as I can to sound like a native, and that would be the speaker of the most prestigeous variety, in all languages I learn. That might seem bizzare to someone but that is how it is.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Rallino said:


> Of course. Neither is there a single American Accent. A New Yorker speaks differently than someone from Ohio. But overall, you can say if someone's accent resembles to UK accents or US accents.



A standard Scottish accent is about as similar to a southern English one as a New Zealander is to a Canadian. Referring to a British accent, something Americans seemingly love to do, is inherently fallacious.

Speaking of the ''English'' accent, although still wrong, is infinitely better.

I agree with Phosphore, when speaking of a British accent, the vast majority of people are referring to the Queen's English.


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## LV4-26

Southdown said:


> Hallo Everyone,
> 
> I have read all the comments on this thread and agree with those who find that the object of language learning is communication. I find the obsessional desire to hide one's true identity misguided. [...]


I think the attitude you're describing only reflects a desire for assimilation or, more broadly speaking, to be accepted in whatever group you're being immersed into. This, in turn, may betray a lack of self-assurance. That, I'm willing to admit.

Of course, I include myself in what I'd call the "chameleon" type. 

Wanting to hide or show your "true identity" requires that you believe you've got such a thing.


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## Jasmine_Chila

I'm a native English speaker from the UK, and I can't even fake a good American accent. So how can I ever expect to speak like I'm from Spain when Spanish isn't my first language?


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## Southdown

Hallo again, 

I believe that most of us have a true identity which is strongly linked to our mother-tongue. Even those brought up with two mother-tongues have their true mixed identity. I think to imagine that a person has no identity is incorrect.
Our accent in other languages, either lays bare our foreign identity, or at least confirms that we are not a native speaker. Obviously there are exceptions. Our identity is portrayed in ways other than language, of course, such as clothes, mannerisms, points of view and our countries' cultures.   I do not see the desire for assimilation necessarily as a sign of the lack of self confidence, although it could be. 

I am going to finish there; otherwise I may be accused of wandering from the subject in question.


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## Southdown

Hallo again All !



Jasmine_Chila said:


> I'm a native English speaker from the UK, and I can't even fake a good American accent. So how can I ever expect to speak like I'm from Spain when Spanish isn't my first language?



I am really pleased to see a thick slice of reality entering the forum. But one does not have to be taken as a native to obtain lots of enjoyment and advantages by learning a language.


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## sokol

phosphore said:


> Anyway, in English this is probably not the case but in many languages, like Russian or French, every little accent other than that of the standard variety seems to mark you as an undereducated person. This is also true for my native tongue and I guess that is why I try as much as I can to sound like a native, and that would be the speaker of the most prestigeous variety, in all languages I learn. That might seem bizzare to someone but that is how it is.


Yes, there are indeed some languages where already a slight deviation from the standard accent is conceived as "uneducated". (And in England, when you think of Eliza Doolittle, this too was the case once - only situation has changed since. )

But overall I'd say that this is no longer the case for a great many languages - in Spain and Italy regional accents are nothing out of the ordinary, and the same surely is also true for South America.
Same goes for German - even inside Germany everyone at least has a regional accent, and many still speak dialect; German accents of Switzerland and Austria are even more pronounced.

Learners of German actually ultimately will have to choose a specific accent if they want to come over as "natural" and colloquial: if a learner of German learns to pronounce standard language exactly as the textbook says (and educated speakers recorded on CDs) then they might be confronted with communication problems - of course they would be perfectly understood, but the problem would be in the social dimension: their (very much) standard pronunciation would come over as very formal and distant.
So if a learner of German wants to communicate on the full "social" spectrum it would be a good idea for him or her to try and learn a regional accent.

And this certainly also would be the case for Slovene, as hardly any Slovene pronounces standard language like the textbooks say.


----------



## travix

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Speaking of the ''English'' accent, although still wrong, is infinitely better.


I'd say it's just as bad, really. A Geordie (from Newcastle, England) accent probably has more in common with a Scottish accent than it does with a southern English one. Similarly, a Scouse (from Liverpool, England) accent is closer to a Dublin accent than a Home Counties one. Not to mention the differences between Brummy, West Country, Yorkshire, etc, accents. I think the only way a foreigner could obtain a totally convincing "English" accent is either by learning RP to perfection (I guess you'd need elocution lessons for this) or by living here for a long time and eventually picking up an authentic local accent (which I'd say would be quite rare, although the scouse accent of Jan Molby the Danish ex-footballer comes to mind ).

In my opinion, you can more often than not get a good idea about where someone is from and what their social background is just by hearing them speak a few words (in England, I mean), so for a foreigner to obtain a 100% convincing accent is very, very difficult.


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## LV4-26

There are some people whose accent in a foreign language can be better than their actual mastery of the grammar and vocabulary.

I've always been deeply impressed by the way Jodie Foster speaks French. As far as accent and intonation goes, she truly _sounds_ French. The only way  you can see she's not is through occasional (very few, actually) syntax mistakes she makes, or words she fails to remember, especially when she hasn't been here for a while.


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## The Machine of Zhu

I don't have a marked accent when I speak American English and when I lived in the States, people were generally shocked to find out I wasn't a native speaker. I had a very good American accent to begin with, later I started paying attention to the typical mistakes Flemish speakers make when speaking (American) English and I've managed to purge my speech of them. Naturally, I do slip up occasionally, but people usually don't notice. 

At university I was taught RP. I didn't like the British pronunciation at first but I learnt to love it. I practised diligently and when I now read out loud I believe native speakers would have trouble identifying me as a non-native speaker. I struggle a lot more in spontaneous conversation. Sometimes, for example, I pronounce a word with a British accent, but I put the stress where it would lay in American English. 

I cannot, for the life of me, speak British English when I'm in conversation with an American, even when several Brits are engaged in the conversation as well. 

Some of my English friends have told me I sound rather posh, since then I've been taping (yes, I still have a VCR!) several quizzes and shows on the BBC. I try to mimic their accents and try to pay attention to the differences between them. I record myself and compare my recording to the original. 

My accent in Czech is very good. But unfortunately, I still haven't fully mastered the grammar and that, in combination with a limited vocabulary,  makes it virtually impossible to mistake for for Czech. But it does happen, for instance, when I've had the time to prepare what I'm going to say. Or in basic conversations. They either compliment me on my excellent pronunciation or get mad because they think I'm Czech and I'm just yankin' their chain, so to speak. 

I have a thick accent in French and  German. But I'm sure I'd manage to acquire a nearly perfect German pronunciation as well.


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## Jasmine_Chila

Southdown said:


> Hallo again All !
> 
> 
> 
> I am really pleased to see a thick slice of reality entering the forum. But one does not have to be taken as a native to obtain lots of enjoyment and advantages by learning a language.



Exactly, learning a new language opens up so many doors and gives us such a sense of achievement. One can still speak a language very, very well while not sounding like a native. I know many 'foreigners' here in the UK who speak great English - their grammar is perfect and each word is pronounced as should be. But I can still tell they weren't born in the UK, each correctly pronounced word has an international accent. Just like an English or Scottish person has an accent.


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## WyomingSue

I think we should appreciate the various stages in our language learning too.  For me, married, working, kids, etc. the likelihood of me having the opportunity to be immersed in Spanish so that I'm mistaken for a native is pretty slim.  My fantasy is to eventually be mistaken as a native-speaker from some different Spanish-speaking country!  There's an earlier stage when you know enough of how various native-speakers sound that you can recognize non-native's accents--for example I spoke Spanish with a Frenchwoman in South America (boy, did she have a French accent!).  The first stage is the staggering-along stage:  Years ago I was in Vienna, in front of the Opera, and a girl stopped and asked me, in German, what time the Opera opened.  I answered her back in German, and we talked for 5-10 minutes before we realized that we were both Americans!  Our German wasn't good enough to recognize that the other person's German wasn't very good either.  A funny situation--still we ended up going to see the Lipizzaners together.
Perhaps the best solution, if you dislike being recognized as a "foreigner," is to take up some semi-dead language like Latin, koine Greek, or Anglo-Saxon.  Fun in their own way, but not as many opportunities for trying out new foods.


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## Stumpy457

One thing I have noticed is this: it's generally easier to pick up the accent of a language in the same linguistic family tree as yours. When I watch an early video of me speaking German, I sounded pretty decent, to be honest. HOWEVER, when I watch my early French video, I can CLEARLY hear my American accent. It's bad.



fenixpollo said:


> The interesting thing is meeting other Americans who learned Castillian pronunciation. Speaking Spanish with other native-English speakers who have different Spanish accents than yours is a truly surreal experience.



SO TRUE. For example, one of my good friends also speaks Spanish, but he grew up and learned it in California. Hence, he has what he calls a 'Beaner accent' AKA more or less 'general' Mexican. I, however, learned a standard Castilian accent in school, an accent that I have since augmented with my own studies of Madrid Spanish. So it's really strange; he makes fun of me for the typical things (classic example: I say /θ/ in 'ciento' while he say /s/; put I also drop the 'd' from the end of words like 'navidad') while I think he sounds too American. BUT THEN our other roommate is ACTUALLY Guatemalan, so sometimes we have THREE ACCENTS going at once.


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## koniecswiata

I don't think coming from a language that belongs to the same language family necessarily helps with the accent of a language.  Pronunciation, sounds, phonetics, intonation, stress patterns-all those things--are quite language-specific, even dialect specific sometimes.  It quickly comes to mind that, on average, Germans have a "stronger, more characteristic" accent in English, than Poles generally do.  Though, of course, there are individual exceptions on both sides.
Overall, Poles and Czechs, probably some other Slavic speakers (but not Russians) tend to have quite generic, not very characteristic accents in English, which makes for a pretty good pronunciation in English.  I would say their "foreign accents" basically never get in the way of communication.  Bravo!


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## Souxie

Many many things I've read on this thread are true, about what we are looking for in trying to sound like a native, or about what we get from learning a new langage, which are for me the major questions.

It's really embarassing to have a strong accent, of course because we are afraid not to be understood, but also afraid to sound funny, make mistakes and even sometimes look stupid because of incomprehension (hopefully not very often). I think what we also want by learning a langage is to learn ways of thinking, the "brain mechanism" of the natives, and by their words we try to understand the manner how they analyse life.

So all of that needs connection, a good connection, a good knowledge, and a good accent. For me it's not absolutely important to sound like a native, although I would love to be the closest I can, but the most important is that what I think and feel go through well. (Hope I picked the good words here too to express myself!)

I know I have a lot to do to reach that level, but my concern about my accent is that in French I already have a south accent, pretty strong although nice to hear, and I don't have a clue how it sounds in English. In French that accent makes me pronounce all the letters very clearly, especially the end of the words, wich is not standart French. For exemple, sometimes when I say a French word ending by "e" it can sound like a "a". And I make "sing" the nasals, they sound opened. It's a common accent from Southern France, and it's not easy to erase. I really would like to know if it's funny in English!


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## JamesM

> I know I have a lot to do to reach that level, but my concern about my accent is that in French I already have a south accent, pretty strong although nice to hear, and I don't have a clue how it sounds in English. In French that accent makes me pronounce all the letters very clearly, especially the end of the words, wich is not standart French. For exemple, sometimes when I say a French word ending by "e" it can sound like a "a". And I make "sing" the nasals, they sound opened. It's a common accent from Southern France, and it's not easy to erase. I really would like to know if it's funny in English!


 
I don't know how it sounds in English, but I have to say that the southern French accent is a real pleasure to listen to in French, at least for me.  The clarity and the more relaxed speed makes everything much more comprehensible, and there is a warmth and openness to the accent that is very appealing.  I imagine that would translate over into English.


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## Pedro y La Torre

JamesM said:


> I don't know how it sounds in English, but I have to say that the southern French accent is a real pleasure to listen to in French, at least for me.  The clarity and the more relaxed speed makes everything much more comprehensible, and there is a warmth and openness to the accent that is very appealing.  I imagine that would translate over into English.



Indeed. The tragedy (or disgrace, depending on how you view it) is that on French TV, and especially on more "serious" platforms such as _le Journal de 20 Heures_, it is almost never heard, especially on the part of anchormen (and women). 

People with a Southern accent who go to Paris to get into television, or so I have heard, conciously change their accent in order to conform to the industry ''standard" i.e. that of Paris. In many ways, it seems to be somewhat akin to the situation that reigned in the UK pre-1950s where only an RP accent was considered fit for public broadcast.

Too bad. The Southern accent, in my opinion, is far more pleasing on the ear, and in many ways, more friendly too.


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## elirlandes

Some footballers very impressively take on the local accents of the teams they join. In the UK you have Jan Molby (from Denmark) who is complete scouse/Liverpool when speaking in English. Another I have heard recently is Didi Hamann from Germany who has a very pronounced Manchester accent in English.

Me? I speak Andaluz and Nicois as opposed to Spanish or French.


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## charlottesometimes

O well, last thing I've heard about my accent is that it may be from the Bronx... ¿¿¿??? Jesus Christ! Is that good or bad??? Hahaha! Finally we get to the point that I speak a kind of a mixture of British and American accents... mmm... as long as they understand...
I don't think it is important to pronounce "c" as we do in Central and Northern Spain. If you put all the native Spanich speakers together and then you separate the ones who pronounce it as "s" (sesear, we say), the rest could play a football match with no substitutes...


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## Vikinga-Guadalupana

Accent-wise, mine is a mess.
Customers have asked me if I was from Russia, India (THAT bad?!), Puerto Rico or Costa Rica.
Co-workers think I have been in the US for many many years due to my accent.
But then, when I'm in Mexico, people ask me "Ma'am... no offense but... where are you from? What country?"
And this happens in Monterrey, where I spent 17 of my 25 years in Mexico.... Go figure.


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## Binapesi

I speak the way it sounds most enjoying to me. I can make different accents in both English and Japanese. That really is what makes a language learnable, the way if it's amusingly speakable enough.


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## nazha1024

que importa accent!!!


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## kenjoluma

French Canadians always ask me if I learned French in France, while French people ALWAYS ask me if I'm Canadian.

I believe French people feel awkward with my frequent use of English words while speaking French (due to my limited French vocabulary) and it probably gave them the impression my accent is Canadian. And quebecois think my accent is so French.

Isn't it funny they judge the "accent" with different methodologies? French judge my accent lexically, while Quebeckers phonetically.


PS. Of course my French accent is not that perfectly "French-y". And my grammar is not perfect, as well. But French people are so distracted with my English vocabulary that they don't seem to be concerned with my 'real' accent. They just ask me if I'm Canadian. Good for me.


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## Ottilie

I speak English with an accent,especially I cannot pronounce the soft 'L' ,i pronounce it strong,dark 'L' . Also because of the lack of practice,I dont' speak English very fast,sometimes I say ''aaahh'' which is a sing of lack of practice.

  I speak Russian without any accent at all,although many people in Moldova speak Russian with a bit of accent,I don't : maybe that's thanks to the fact that all my life I watched only Russian television.


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## koniecswiata

Ottilie, don't worry about the "soft l" in English!  There is no "soft l" (that soft l like in Russian or the l of Spanish, German, Italian, etc...).  Really, the l of English is hard/dark--rather similar to the Russian hard l, and in most types of American English, just as hard.
It is a myth that there is a soft l in English--in certain dialects/accents yes (Welsh, some forms of British, Hawaiian English, etc...).  True, the "l" in "leave" is relatively softer than the "l" in "well"--but that is only relative to itself.  It still is not soft enough to be clearly soft as the ls in those other languages.  Don't worry about something that some textbooks have created, but is not truly demonstrable in real life.  Believe me, I've studied phonetics.


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## Kumpel

koniecswiata said:


> Believe me, I've studied phonetics.



Hahah, that's brilliant!
_Believe me, I've studied ...!_

Haha, I will over-use this new snowclone!




koniecswiata said:


> It quickly comes to mind that, on average,  Germans have a "stronger, more characteristic" accent in English, than  Poles generally do.



When in Germany, a tour guide who had grown up in Munich and learnt his English there had a VERY strong German accent - yet he had spent 2 years living and studying History in Leeds (Northern England).

A Polish friend spoke no English when he moved over here; now he sounds exactly like a native. No Polish ever seeps through into his English accent - if I'm honest, it don't think he has a specific English accent. That brings me to my next thought.

Where I'm from (South Cheshire), there's no real noticeable accent. People can never work out where I'm from. I don't sound 'posh' as such, but this area if often associated with RP. The only distinguishing features I can think of off the top of my head are the dropping of initial _H_s, and the personal pronoun _I_ becoming something like /æ/ - the only real Northern feature.

I mention this as an explanation of my Polish friend's lacking an accent.

I remember hearing a German F1 driver who had clearly spent a lot of time in Australia. You could still here that he wasn't an English native, but I wouldn't have been able to tell you where he was from, had it not been announced with his introduction.

When I speak German, I'm told I sound like Brit who's lived in Bavarian, but with uvular trills instead of alveolar. That's probably because of studying the Standardsprache with its uvular trills and fricatives. I've found myself doing alveolar trills now, though, because I've been learning Esperrrrranto.

Lloyd


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## mujerdepaz77

Well, remember that "Accents are Forever".  You can always make it more authentic, but probably not to the point where you would never be mistaken for a native speaker.  I think most English speakers have difficulty with RR in Spanish.  I certainly learned to trill quite well, but I can't trill for seconds and seconds on end or until I run out of breath.  I learned honestly by practicing--I'd stand in front of the mirror and practice.  Also, I'd practice saying "erre con erre cigarro..." several times a week.

The Spanish I learned was from Latin American Spanish speakers in college, and I've never much of a problem with it.  I spent 6 weeks in Spain, and I do remember once have a slight difficulty with the lisp in communicating something, but other than that, it doesn't bother me.  I can use the vosotros form, but I'm not nearly as fluent with vosotros becuase as you know it isn't used widely by Latin Americans.  I don't hear it on Spanish channels, hear it in music, or when speaking in person. It rarely comes up literature, as well, but it doesn't bother me.

Actually, the whole issue of the accent doesn't bother me at all.  I have a larger concern with grammatical mistakes and vocabulary retention.  My goal is to progress more in these areas.

MDP


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## olaszinho

> "Overall, Poles and Czechs, probably some other Slavic speakers (but not Russians) tend to have quite generic, not very characteristic accents in English, which makes for a pretty good pronunciation in English. I would say their "foreign accents" basically never get in the way of communication. Bravo! "


 
I agree, the same occurs in Italian
Spanish, French and Brazilian people tend to have very tough accents when they speak Italian.


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## Kumpel

I must quote my grandma:



> You can always tell a German when they speak English.



While this does contradict what I said in #59, the guy I spoke about had obviously been in Oz for a VERY long time...

There are certain accents (German, French, Russian - excl. other varieties of English) that it's really easy to hear when people speak English. But then there are accents that I could never tell the difference between; there are just generic East Asian, the-rest-of Asian, Eastern European, etc. accents to me. This may be because of only a small amount of exposure to the accents, but I hear no differences.

Lloyd


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## Anna_Barcelona

mujerdepaz77 said:


> Actually, the whole issue of the accent doesn't bother me at all. I have a larger concern with grammatical mistakes and vocabulary retention. My goal is to progress more in these areas.


 
I totally agree - what's the use of perfect pronunciation if I'm going to speak like Tarzan?


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## elirlandes

Anna_Barcelona said:


> I totally agree - what's the use of perfect pronunciation if I'm going to speak like Tarzan?


I agree - communication is the main goal...

I used to have enough German to place a phone call and ask to be passed to someone specific. My issue was that I had learned to mimic the accent, so if the person I wished to speak to was there, I would be passed through successfully, but if they were not, I would get a very friendly "I'm afraid Mr. X is out for lunch, he will be back later; would you like to leave a message" all in German, to which I would have to respond "I'm sorry, but do you speak English?". I would have been better served with more vocabulary and less accent!


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## Anna_Barcelona

elirlandes said:


> My issue was that I had learned to mimic the accent, so if the person I wished to speak to was there, I would be passed through successfully, but if they were not, I would get a very friendly "I'm afraid Mr. X is out for lunch, he will be back later; would you like to leave a message" all in German, to which I would have to respond "I'm sorry, but do you speak English?". I would have been better served with more vocabulary and less accent!


 
I have _exactly_ the same problem with German. I was on holiday in Austria last month and I got so frustrated with it that I switched directly to English from my second day there . 

Actually, the "what's the use of perfect pronunciation if I'm going to speak like Tarzan" bit was something I myself used to tell my German teacher whenever she praised me for it!


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## Istriano

Anna_Barcelona said:


> I totally agree - what's the use of perfect pronunciation if I'm going to speak like Tarzan?



Well, Indians speak almost flawless English when it comes to vocabulary and syntax yet their accent is hated by Australians or Americans.

Why can't they accept the Indian accent for what it is: just an accent. Just like there is an Irish and a Scottish accent, there is also an Indian accent.

(Click on the link to listen to a sample of it).
Some people said: what's the use of perfect grammar and rich vocabulary if it's hard to understand?


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## Janis Joplin

I'm a Spanish native speaker but, as many Mexicans who live in the border with the USA, I learned to speak english.

My accent is a mixture of every English speakers, what I mean is that I don't sound like a texan or a new yorker, I pronounce each word the easiest way for me, no matter where the pronunciation comes, I just accomodate fonetics.

Years ago I had to talk by phone with a British man who was going to come to the company I worked to perform an audit in preparation for a certification.  I was the contact in Mexico so we talked oftenly and one day he asked me where I was born, I said in Mexico, where else.  He said I didn't sound like a Mexican, he said I sounded like and old russian lady .

I don't know if that was a cumpliment or an insult  and I don't want to know.  Fortunately we always understood each other very well.


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## Vikinga-Guadalupana

Janis Joplin said:


> I'm a Spanish native speaker but, as many Mexicans who live in the border with the USA, I learned to speak english.
> 
> My accent is a mixture of every English speakers, what I mean is that I don't sound like a texan or a new yorker, I pronounce each word the easiest way for me, no matter where the pronunciation comes, I just accomodate fonetics.
> 
> Years ago I had to talk by phone with a British man who was going to come to the company I worked to perform an audit in preparation for a certification. I was the contact in Mexico so we talked oftenly and one day he asked me where I was born, I said in Mexico, where else. He said I didn't sound like a Mexican, he said I sounded like and old russian lady .
> 
> I don't know if that was a cumpliment or an insult  and I don't want to know. Fortunately we always understood each other very well.


 
ROFL!
I know how you feel! My sister and I have the same issue but, depending who the customer is, we may be from Russia, Germany, India, Puerto Rico, France....


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## mathman

Istriano said:


> Well, Indians speak almost flawless English when it comes to vocabulary and syntax yet their accent is hated by Australians or Americans.
> 
> Why can't they accept the Indian accent for what it is: just an accent. (snip)



Oh, not this American. I could listen to someone from India (or Pakistan) speak English all day. It's just so musical: simply lovely.


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## Hyper Squirrel

My accent with Spanish is pretty strong, but I'm understandable. I've been told my accent in French sounds vaguely Spanish, keep in mind that my Spanish is bad enough already... 

I'm starting to learn German. I'm a bit better with that, but I tend to sound too 'soft'. German sounds harsher than English, so I have trouble with that.


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## borgonyon

After more than 30 years in this country I still have a very heavy Spanish accent. I say Spanish because, in spite of being Mexican I don't have a Mexican accent when I speak Spanish. My main problem, besides my accent, is the difference between short and long vowels.

Funny thing is my daughter is always correcting my English [because of my accent] but she always comes to me to explain to her the meaning of English words! I have, I think, a very large vocabulary.

Being a public speaker from time to time I tell people, when I start a presentation, that I often have a funny remark at the beginning of my presentations but that this time I don't have one so, please, just go ahead and laugh at my accent . . . That usually brings the house down . . .


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## Socheu

Hello,

I find that topic interessant and convivial.

I speak arabic, as my native language. Thus, i can speak any of the 30 arabic dialects and sound like i'm originally from thata region or another 

Besides, i speak French as my second language and i think i sound good, since French people think i'm from France when they hear me talking.

I also speak english, but i guess it is quite bad, and my accent isn't much horrible but not good at all, i try to improve it but i have to admit that i find it so difficult. 

As for my spanish, i think my accent isn't bad - because it's a latin language- but not good; I have a problem with "R" and "RR" as it's _innate, my innate "R" sounds like german "r" (lol) _this is why however i try to better imitate the spanish native speakers i have that problem of rolling the "R".

_Souka's Regards._


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## seyif

I can not pronounce Arabic "ح" in the way which native speakers in Arabic countries can easily understand. I am forced to repeat words with that letter. Also it is impossible for me to be able pronounce a good "ع".


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## Socheu

seyif said:


> I can not pronounce Arabic "ح" in the way which native speakers in Arabic countries can easily understand. I am forced to repeat words with that letter. Also it is impossible for me to be able pronounce a good "ع".


 
Hello Seyif,

Yes, those letters are difficult for someone whose mother tongue isn't arabic 

But with practice you can improve it, espacially if you listen carefully to a person pronouncing it for you.

Have a good day!


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## elroy

Socheu said:


> I speak arabic, as my native language. Thus, i can speak any of the 30 arabic dialects and sound like i'm originally from thata region or another


 I highly doubt that.  You may have no trouble _understanding_ other Arabic dialects, and you may be able to imitate some of them to a certain extent, but I'd be highly surprised if you were actually able to pass for a native of every dialect.


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## Socheu

elroy said:


> I highly doubt that.  You may have no trouble _understanding_ other Arabic dialects, and you may be able to imitate some of them to a certain extent, but I'd be highly surprised if you were actually able to pass for a native of every dialect.


 


I don't know maybe.. But i can sound more or less good.

Have a nice day !


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## Katejo

When I speak German I have an English accent though I think my German pronounciation is quite good. When I speak Italian, I am often told that I have a German accent. Perhaps it because I started German when I was much younger.


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## timpeac

Katejo said:


> When I speak German I have an English accent  though I think my German pronounciation is quite good. When I speak  Italian, I am often told that I have a German accent. Perhaps it because  I started German when I was much younger.



When I started to learn German I found it very difficult to remember to pronounce my "h"s, despite the fact they clearly exist in English. I can only presume that having started learning French and Spanish first my brain had decided that "foreign language", any "foreign language", didn't pronounce "h"s!

Similarly I remember, much later, that when starting to learn Russian, anyone who had learned German first found it difficult to remember to pronounce Russian "stul" without the German "sh", despite the fact that "stool" exists in English without it.


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## Kumpel

timpeac said:


> Similarly I remember, much later, that when starting to learn Russian, anyone who had learned German first found it difficult to remember to pronounce Russian "stul" without the German "sh", despite the fact that "stool" exists in English without it.



I have this exact problem in Esperanto. I always pronounce _*st*elo_ /'stelo/ (Stern) like _*St*elle_ /'ʃtɛlə/.


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## Nanon

Katejo said:


> When I speak German I have an English accent though I think my German pronounciation is quite good. When I speak Italian, I am often told that I have a German accent. Perhaps it because I started German when I was much younger.


The other day I was told (by a Pole who lived in the UK) that I sound like a German when I speak English!! 
Argh... Need to spend some time in the UK!  
The good news is: 1) I don't sound French and 2) the exact sentence was along the lines of "you sound like a German speaking good English".
The funny thing is that I never learnt German!


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## elirlandes

Nanon said:


> The other day I was told (by a Pole who lived in the UK) that I sound like a German when I speak English!!
> Argh... Need to spend some time in the UK!
> The good news is: 1) I don't sound French and 2) the exact sentence was along the lines of "you sound like a German speaking good English".
> The funny thing is that I never learnt German!



Germans who speak good English speak it very well. I would take it as a compliment.


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## Nanon

elirlandes said:


> I would take it as a compliment.


I did!  But it was funny nonetheless, because my only Germanic language is English! Maybe I should have been a Germanist...


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## timpeac

Several French people asked me on different occasions if I was Dutch - and that used to really confuse me, because I don't know Dutch at all, and I wondered what it was about my accent in French that was so specifically Dutch. Then someone suggested that they probably meant German (because of German in German being Deutsch) which made it a lot more understandable!! I took that as a compliment.


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## sokol

Nanon said:


> The other day I was told (by a Pole who lived in the UK) that I sound like a German when I speak English!!
> Argh... Need to spend some time in the UK!
> The good news is: 1) I don't sound French and 2) the exact sentence was along the lines of "you sound like a German speaking good English".
> The funny thing is that I never learnt German!



This is - would be my guess - because of the "exact" quality of vowels (that is, like in German you do not diphthongise each and every vowel in French, as do the English, and possibly you haven't managed to consistently diphthongising in every case where it should be done in English - which by the way some Irish guys haven't either  but with them it's of course called regional accent).
If it's that then it would be easy to explain why this Pole mistook your accent for "German" even though you've never ever learnt a single word of German, possibly save for "rucksack" and "to abseil".


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## bondia

In South America, I have been asked if I'm Catalan. After 40 years living between Catalunya and the Balearic Islands, it's not surprising. I have very little English accent, but I don't think anyone ever loses it completely unless they speak a second language from the earliest age. The daughter of friends (English mother, Catalan father) speaks English, Spanish and Catalan without a trace of an accent. I envy her
El irlandés has said that Germans who speak English speak it very well. I agree, but often with an American accent, I find. That's not a criticism, btw, just an observation!


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## Nanon

Huh, noooo (sorry, can't IPA here - please _imagine_ the diphthong), I think I manage to pronounce diphthongs, but either it is a matter of vowel length, or my _mistakes_ sound German, or maybe I sound hypercorrect. 
I learnt many German words, even whole sentences (!) by heart when I was singing in a choir, but those fragments are absolutely useless in a conversation, and I doubt that could have had any influence on my English pronunciation !


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## Awwal12

To be frank, I lack a practice of English speech, so I have typical Russian problems...
- mixing of "v" and "w", damn it. I can pronounce the both correctly, of course, but that still doesn't prevent me from mixing them. Such words as "waves" and "vowels" really are problems. The problem seems to be in correct memorizing of words.
- unvoicing of voiced consonants in word endings. When I speak quickly, it may become uncontrollable.
- [t], [d]: front alveolar plosives instead of back alveolar ones - as long as I don't keep vigilant watch on that.
- Russian reduction of vowels may appear in a quick speech (making me feel sorry for native speakers who may hear that).
However, all those problems except #3 either are absent or don't appear when I speak German.


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## rolmich

I have been living in Israël for over 40 years and many people cannot trace a french accent when I speak Hebrew or English. In fact, I have an hybrid German/Dutch or Belgian accent (with no reason).
I am quite gifted at imitating people's voices or accents and I believe that it helps greatly in losing one's accent : mimicking native's voices.
The funny thing is that my stay here affected my french which "sings" now with the influence of Hebrew.
Another problem with people with a French accent is that many find it charming and implore : _Please don't ever loose it, it's so charming !_
Sometimes I believe that Maurice Chevalier worked very hard not to loose his French accent when speaking English !


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## Δημήτρης

My English accent is really messed up. For an unknown reason I switch from non-rhotic to rhotic at times, and lately I started pronouncing wh- different than w- in some words (_whether_ and _weather_ are not homophones, but _what_ it's the same as *_wat_).

In French, I have troubles with the nasals and the e-ɛ ø-œ pairs (jaune-gène-jeune-gens-Jeanne: The NIGHTMARE!).

In Japanese, I believe the main problem is my unnatural pitch accent and the lengthening of stressed vowels (in Japanese vowel length is a distinctive feature), but I don't speak Japanese that much.


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## rolmich

One of the difficulties in French pronounciation for foreigners is to differentiate between the nasals :
in/un - on - en - ouin. Like in : _Le printemps pointe son menton._
Many also have problems to pronounce the 'u'.
For instance for 'rue' they will say 'rit/riz' or 'roue/roux'.
There is no much logic in French pronounciation !


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## bondia

rolmich said:


> One of the difficulties in French pronounciation for foreigners is to differentiate between the nasals :
> in/un - on - en - ouin. Like in : _Le printemps pointe son menton._
> Many also have problems to pronounce the 'u'.
> For instance for 'rue' they will say 'rit/riz' or 'roue/roux'.
> There is no much logic in French pronounciation !


 
I don't know why, but this was never a problem for me. I studied French from the age of 10 to 18, intended to get a degree in French but "dropped out" (this was 1968) and then lived in France for a while, and was always praised for my (lack of) accent. Even now, having "exhanged" French for Spanish many years ago, on the rare ocasions I speak French, native speakers find it hard to fault me, and my written French remains almost perfect.
The same happens now when I speak Spanish, or Catalan. People ask me which part of the country I'm from.
I do believe that some people (who knows why?) have more ability than others to assimilate the sounds and nuances of other languages.


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## rolmich

Congratulations Bondia for your lack of accent.
I believe it is individual, but one's mother tongue is also important (Germans for instance have a very noticeable accent when speaking french or english, whereas Scandinavians much less).
Do you imitate other's voices or accents easily ?
If yes, this is your answer !


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## bondia

rolmich said:


> Congratulations Bondia for your lack of accent.
> I believe it is individual, but one's mother tongue is also important (Germans for instance have a very noticeable accent when speaking french or english, whereas Scandinavians much less).
> Do you imitate other's voices or accents easily ?
> If yes, this is your answer !


 
Bonjour, I can't imitate voices, but accents, yes, particularly Scottish and Welsh as I grew up hearing them from my grandparents. My parents had no accents at all. I once met, through work, a man who was an expert in recognizing regional accents and although he knew nothing about me, asked me if I had Scottish blood because there was a nuance in my English. I was very surprised!


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## Angelo di fuoco

rolmich said:


> One of the difficulties in French pronounciation for foreigners is to differentiate between the nasals :
> in/un - on - en - ouin. Like in : _Le printemps pointe son menton._
> Many also have problems to pronounce the 'u'.
> For instance for 'rue' they will say 'rit/riz' or 'roue/roux'.
> There is no much logic in French pronounciation !



I've learned the nasal "in" and "un" are different sounds and pronounce them as such...


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## rolmich

Angelo di fuoco said:


> I've learned the nasal "in" and "un" are different sounds and pronounce them as such...


 I am not that expert at French pronounciation, but if you are right, it makes it even more difficult to differentiate !


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## kidika

In the States people asked me if I was from New Zealand...Hurrah, another English speaking country!
In England they praise me for having a very beautiful accent, which they can´t quite identify as being Spanish or anything, just plain nice. So I guess my accent is not very strong. Hurrah, again.


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## Wertis

jess oh seven said:


> I spent eight months in Spain and my Spanish has undoubtedly improved, but I'm not so sure about my accent .... I can't really tell if my native accent is really strong when I speak Spanish or not, and I don't especially want to record myself and listen back and endure such pain...
> 
> Plus I've been having issues with the "c" before "i" and "e" pronounced like "th", since my first Spanish teacher taught us more "Latin American" Spanish and didn't have that accent, so I never learned it initially. my main problem is I develop a CONSTANT lisp and say "s" with a lisp and everything too, the worst is when I say my nationality, it comes out "es-co-thay-tha". NOT GOOD!!!! haha.
> 
> Also, most of the time I can't say the Spanish "rr". This annoys me. It's improved, but I can't maintain the sound. Every time a Spanish news reporter rolls the r in "por" I get a little more bitter.
> 
> So what's your accent like in the language(s) you're learning? Have people commented on it? What difficulties do you have?


c

Accent can be acquired only when you've lived in another country for a long time because otherwise you'll never learn to speak the same way as true native-speakers. Sometimes accent is memorized automatically when you just listen to people speaking and then reproduce words the same way as them. In my view there is no use trying to remember how native speakers say words and pronounce sounds. That doesn't have any sense at all because people usually develop these skills in the childhood when learning abilities are best and information is assimilated very efficiently. 

I've never been to England. Nor have I gone to the US or other English-speaking countries. However I've communicated with foreigners very many times so far. Now I do so almost every day. I have never had any difficulties speaking English because I've been learning and practicing it since my childhood. At the same time I know that some of my friends who have been to England, Australia or the US started speaking in a new way in comparison with what they used to speak before. They don't realize that themselves, but I can distinguish the difference very easily due to my memory and perception of speech.


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## Mirlo

I definitely have an accent when I speak English and I have been speaking it for more than 20 years now. My main problem is to remember the diference between the sh and ch; especially when I say :sheet...It always sound like "shit" .


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## bondia

Mirlo said:


> I definitely have an accent when I speak English and I have been speaking it for more than 20 years now. My main problem is to remember the diference between the sh and ch; especially when I say :sheet...It always sound like "shit" .


 
Querida Mirlo, tu problema no reside entre sh y ch, sino entre "i" y "ee"
Otros ejemplo:
ship/sheep
blip/bleep
Saludos


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## Mirlo

bondia said:


> Querida Mirlo, tu problema no reside entre sh y ch, sino entre "i" y "ee"
> Otros ejemplo:
> ship/sheep
> blip/bleep
> Saludos


Bueno a lo mejor no es un buen ejemplo, pero si pronuncio las dos combinaciones iguales también....


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## solregn

I've been living in France for two years now (started learning French at the age of 10) and French native speakers more or less always notice quite quickly that I'm "foreign" - I think it has something to do with the way I look as well, but my "petit accent" definitely is an important factor!  I don't have the impression that it sounds funny or incomprehensible when I speak though, it seems more like it makes people curious about my origin. Usually, French people ask me if I'm English. When I was an exchange student in Montpellier four years ago, some people thought I was German, which I found absolutely horrible (because most of my German student friends had the most terrible accents when speaking French!)... So there has been some improvement, I guess! 

When speaking English with native speakers, they usually can't place my accent but they know that I'm of foreign origin. I think it's partly because my English is some kind of mix of several accents, I can't manage to keep it "clean"! I spent one year working in Dublin and the first couple of months after coming back, every Irish person I bumped into (in France) asked me "how come you have such an Irish accent?!" It feels like it has all "worn off" now, though  I don't think I sound very Swedish when speaking English, but I probably do - since I myself can, in 9 cases out of 10, recognize a Swedish person speaking English within 10 seconds, I won't be so full of myself as to think that there isn't any local flavour whatsoever to my accent...


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## merquiades

It's hard for me to diagnose my accent in languages since few people comment on it in Spanish or French.

In English, people tell me I don't have the accent they would expect me to have. It's not the accent on Friends. My American accent is too south to be northern but not southern at all, and too eastern to be western for sure, and it's probably been affected by speaking slowly and over articulating. Originally I didn't pronounce many T's so now I overcompensate by pronouncing many of them hard. I once met a Texan couple in Italy who asked me what country I came from, and a Scotsman asked me if I were Dutch.  In America people generally guess I'm from a region I've never lived in.  Boston in San Francisco, and a few Wisconsiners said I sounded like I was from the South. Once in a while someone said they heard some Spanish influence.  My consonants are soft they said. I'm always surprised since impressions are always different.

In Spanish, I remember a Malloran said to me.  "Oh my God, you have such a Madrid accent".  Some Latin Americans have said that too.  I know I have all the bad traits from that city, but I did live there.  Some northerners say I sound like I'm from the south which is where I originally lived.  Some peole have at times tried to force proper Salamanca Spanish on me but it never worked. Besides, I can't fool experts though. I still have foreign elements probably intonation. I hate hearing myself talk. I'm sure there is French in my Spanish now. More vocab-syntax than accent.

In French I definitely have an accent but at least they guess places where people speak well!  Belgium, Holland, Switzerland, Canada, Luxembourg. I have trouble eating my e's.  When I say "je ne sais pas où ça se trouve" you clearly here the e's, not j'sais pas ou ça's trouv', which doesn't come out naturally. Ending a sentence with a consonant I find hard. U was the last vowel sound I acquired but it's okay but maybe not exactly what it should be.  My r is great though. 

My native language as I say is Yankee Spainglish with a French touch, which is peculiar. I'll end up speaking none of them properly. By the way, some people who are used to me in one language are taken aback to hear me in another.  An argentinian student of mine in English once said, your accent in French is cute and colloquial, your accent in English is classy and formal, but I absolutely hate the way you speak Spanish!

The other languages I can't say I speak them well enough to have an accent.  Trying out German once, I was told I spoke like a ridiculous mixture of Speedy González and Pepé le Pew.


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## Stbn_fcr

I have a mixtured accent, let's say anglo-american. I think that the problem is I learnt English with teachers who were born in the UK or have lived in there for a season. Whereas, I have watched/seen too many American movies to stupidly improve my accent. So, *British people... make, please, better films so that Spaniards can have a proper accent!!!!!!!!!!! : )*

Pour ce qui est de l'accent français. J'ai un bon accent. Mon accent espagnol est très faible. On disait que je n'avais pas d'accent reconnaissable, évidemment, j'en avais un petit peu mais n'était pas du tout marqué. J'ai habité à Paris pour six mois en 2008, donc, théoriquement j'ai l'accent parisien, pourtant, Paris est multiculturel, c'est difficile de trouver ceux qui parlent le vrai parisien. En plus, mon meilleur ami à Paris était d'Avignon. Je prononçais comme lui "du pain" "le coin" comme ceux d'Avignon "du pèng", "le coèng" et ça ne fait pas du tout parisien. On se marrait.


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## voidinchains

I've always been told I got an American accent. I don't know why, a teacher said it's natural. Last year I was in Rome and an American man thought I was from the US haha  Maybe it's because I watch movies and listen to music that is 90% from the US. I went to London twice and I had some difficulties in understanding how they talked there, I find it harder than American English. I wish I could improve my English by having conversations both with people from the UK and from the US!


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## Kumpel

voidinchains said:


> ...I got an American accent...



Um, you've got one in writing, as well.


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## timpeac

Films are a great way to keep accents up. The only thing I'd say is - just remember that by definition they are not necessarily indicative of real life. I hear a lot of foreign speakers whose English is absolutely excellent but they pepper their speech with way too much swearing and goddams etc. Not everyone speaks like a spy who is charged with 1 hour to save humanity from nuclear war.


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## bondia

timpeac said:


> Films are a great way to keep accents up. The only thing I'd say is - just remember that by definition they are not necessarily indicative of real life. I hear a lot of foreign speakers whose English is absolutely excellent but they pepper their speech with way too much swearing and goddams etc. Not everyone speaks like a spy who is charged with 1 hour to save humanity from nuclear war.


 
VERY true. So much swearing (particularly in US made movies) leads people learning English to believe that every other word begins with an "F"


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## Juan Nadie

timpeac said:


> Films are a great way to keep accents up. The only thing I'd say is - just remember that by definition they are not necessarily indicative of real life. I hear a lot of foreign speakers whose English is absolutely excellent but they pepper their speech with way too much swearing and goddams etc. Not everyone speaks like a spy who is charged with 1 hour to save humanity from nuclear war.





bondia said:


> VERY true. So much swearing (particularly in US made movies) leads people learning English to believe that every other word begins with an "F"


Are you *censured* serious? How the *censured* *censured* am I going to *censured* write a 250 *censured* word essay if I shouldn't *censured* fill it with swearing?


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## voidinchains

Yes, I noticed that! Glad you don't speak like that in real life 
Too much swearing, slang and.. too many phrasal verbs! I would understand more if you used less! Just joking


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## fitter.happier

Interesting thread.

I was lucky enough to start learning English at a very young age and have always had great teachers (some were native speakers). I generally have no trouble picking up accents and can reproduce sounds, rhythm and stress of foreign languages  with relative ease. I've been to the UK a few times and have mostly talked to British people over the last few years, which is why my accent is somewhat British-sounding. It definitely pays off when you're talking to someone and they don't notice you're actually a foreigner. 

Chinese is a completely different story. I started studying it last year and I can get the tones right when enunciating words one by one. However, uttering sentences and getting the right intonation is a nightmare.


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## Istriano

Native speakers can always detect your ''foreign''-sounding accent if they really want to do so. There are always subtle details that can give you away.


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## fitter.happier

Istriano said:


> Native speakers can always detect your ''foreign''-sounding accent if they really want to do so. There are always subtle details that can give you away.


 
I beg to differ. 

A very dear friend of mine who is Norwegian and studied law in Italy for two years has acquired a full operational command of the language (granted, he had studied Italian before).

His accent is so flawless I would have never guessed he was a foreigner if he hadn't told me. I consider him an Italian, not only because his pronunciation is perfect, but also because I've never heard him make a mistake in any situation, be it a casual chat or a formal conversation.

This is just to say that if you have a natural penchant for languages, you can achieve anything. 

I agree that reaching such expertise is not something everybody can do, but it's definitely not impossible, and this holds true for any language.


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## timpeac

fitter.happier said:


> I beg to differ.


I agree. I know a girl who is Finnish, and hasn't even lived here that long, but her accent is so authentic that it even has those little "errors" that only natives have. She used to live in the US and she tells me that when there people also thought she was a native (although then with an American accent of course!) so I think that some, a few, lucky people have minds that can just mimic accents naturally.


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## Ben Jamin

JLanguage said:


> I definitely have an accent when I speak Hebrew, although I consciously try to make it less pronounced. I have noticed the same accent in other American English speakers when they were speaking Hebrew. I have great difficulties pronouncing the r-sound correctly and can't make the distinction between the ch as in scottish loch and the aspirated h-sound.


 I am astounded every time when the Americans use the word 'accent', but mean pronunciation. I know that this is an established use, but I still have problems with it. It's confusing and highly imprecise. Accent originally meant stress+prosody, not the way of pronouncing vowels and consonnants.


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## sokol

Ben Jamin said:


> I am astounded every time when the Americans use the word 'accent', but mean pronunciation. I know that this is an established use, but I still have problems with it. It's confusing and highly imprecise. Accent originally meant stress+prosody, not the way of pronouncing vowels and consonnants.


Brits too; more even - they tend do call dialects "accents". Took me some getting used to too.

Concerning accents, I wanted to add - as I've previously posted something about British Accent (no, I didn't change mine - I still hope to have a British one ): I've noticed lately (motivated by threads like this one I listened more closely than I used to) that American accents definitely are gaining here, that is while, say, 20 years ago I hardly remember anybody here using an American accent I do know quite some who do.


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## timpeac

sokol said:


> Brits too; more even - they tend do call dialects "accents". Took me some getting used to too.


Erm, it's just English full-stop. It's a normal usage of the word in English, not an error.

It's not confusing and highly imprecise _in English_ - in fact I can't think what else you would say - he has a French pronunciation when speaking Spanish, for example, would sound odd.


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## rolmich

timpeac said:


> Erm, it's just English full-stop. It's a normal usage of the word in English, not an error.
> 
> It's not confusing and highly imprecise _in English_ - in fact I can't think what else you would say - he has a French pronunciation when speaking Spanish, for example, would sound odd.


The same goes for the French :
_Il a un accent français lorsqu'il parle l'espagnol. _(et pas 'une prononciation').
_Les espagnols ont du mal à prononcer le 'J' en français. _(dans 'le jazz' par exemple).


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## Istriano

In most languages *accent *can mean many things. In Portuguese _acento _is just a orthographic signal (é à ú), English accent or Spanish acento is said *sotaque *[so'taki or su'taki in Brazil; su'tak in Portugal].


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## Ben Jamin

timpeac said:


> Erm, it's just English full-stop. It's a normal usage of the word in English, not an error.
> 
> It's not confusing and highly imprecise _in English_ - in fact I can't think what else you would say - he has a French pronunciation when speaking Spanish, for example, would sound odd.


 
Well, native speakers are so used to their own language that they do not perceive the lack of precision in it. Using 'accent' only it is not possible to differentiate between a person that pronounces all the sounds in a language correctly, but the intonation (and sometimes the stress) is wrong. 
English, despite having more than a million words, lacks a lot of nuances that are available in other languages.

I tip that this use of 'accent' is copied from French, so they are the source of the confusion.


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## Ben Jamin

Istriano said:


> In most languages *accent *can mean many things. In Portuguese _acento _is just a orthographic signal (é à ú), English accent or Spanish acento is said *sotaque *[so'taki or su'taki in Brazil; su'tak in Portugal].


Yes, it is. But it is actually a short form of 'accent mark' (stress mark).


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## Stbn_fcr

*FRANÇAIS*

Quand je suis arrivé à Paris, j'usais des mots appropriés comme ça "oui, oh là là! Tu as vu? Je m'en vais!", pourtant, quand j'ai abandonné la France, je disais des trucs comme ça "ouaii! ouhlààà! T'as vu? Je me claque, quoi!"... lol... D'ailleurs, le français que j'avais appris à l'école ne servait à rien pour comprendre certains accents africains et antillais. En plus, certains parisiens n'articulaient pas beaucoup.

L'accent que tu apprends à l'école est évidemment le standard qui va te permettre t'adapter au vrai accent sur le terrain.

*ENGLISH*

When I arrived to Paris I used properly French words as "oui, oh là là!, Tu as vu? Je m'en vais!", however, when I left France, I spoke some slang as follows "ouaiii! ouhlààà! T'as vu? Je me claque, quoi!"... lol..

Besides, the French I had learnt in the school wasn't sufficient to understand some Antillian and African accents. What's more, some French people in Paris don't articulate so much.

The accent you learn in the school is obviously a standard which will let you get the real accent on the ground.


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## Guillo1

Accents are a funny thing. I find it curious how people who speak your own accent don't really seem to have an accent until you are abroad... and then someone from your own little part of the words stands out like a screaming baby while speaking in a foreign crowd.
I've spent some time in the states, and people often had a bit of a hard time placing my accent. The Argentinian way of speaking spanish is highly influenced not only in vocabulary but also phonetically by Italian, and while speaking English our accent does sound a little bit Italian. Most Americans would take me for an Italian, unless I started exaggerating a little bit and my south american came right through. 
People also assumed I was a long time immigrant. I speak with native fluency, but my accent gives my latin origins away. Which is fine by me.


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## indigofire1230

My natural accent would be more Central Canadian English. Meaning it's rather similar to Standard American English, with some differences. Travelling to America, I have had people ask me if I am from Canada. Apparently my occasional "eh's" is my biggest give away (not every sentence mind you  ) and I do tend toward other Canadian pronunciation differences, like pronouncing about closer to something like "aboat" (not "aboot" lol), pronouncing the "h" in herb and pronouncing roof more like "r-ooh-f" rather than rhyming with "woof" as I've heard before. And Canadian raising, to an extent I do do that. That's all I'm aware of however, I'm unsure of any more details on my accent in English 

In French, as far as I've heard it's decent. It is also situation dependent however. When speaking with instructors and in more formal situations I tend to put a lot more emphasis on how I sound, so I tend to attempt much more of a French accent (I always I'm sure sound somewhat English at least but I have no idea how bad it may be in French). With friends, I admit, I allow a lot of more my Canadian English accent will slip in. Plus, when I first started speaking French, I used to have a problem pronouncing two r's in the same word if they were to close together. For example, saying the word "regarder". It used to come out more like "regalder", I sounded ridiculous  fortunately I've largely eliminated that issue so I sound a little less ridiculous now 

Apparently in Korean my English accent is pretty strong, but I haven't had much practice with Korean at all.


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## Tina.Irun

Je suis espagnole mais j'ai vecu longtemps en France où j'ai réalisé toutes mes études. Pour les Français du Pays Basque, j'ai l'accent "pointu" des gens du nord de...Bordeaux.

Je conserve encore un peu mon "héritage" français en espagnol (mots utilisés et construction des phrases) et parle français sans accent  (j'ai droit aux "comme j'aimerais parler espagnol comme vous parlez français..." et doit donc répondre "aucun mérite, après plus de 20 ans en France, etc.".)

Mon problème est quand je voyage au Royaume-Uni car je parle l'anglais avec un fort accent français et, comme je suis espagnole, je suis obligée de raconter à chaque fois ma vie.

A cela s'ajoute que je voyage parfois avec ma soeur qui, elle, est française et on s'amuse fort quand on présente les cartes d'identité espagnole et française aux autorités.


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## rolmich

Tout d'abord, mes félicitations à Tina Iglesias pour son 10.001ème message (ça n'arrive pas tous les jours).
Nouvelle immigrante de France, ma soeur a conservé un accent épouvantable.
La première fois qu'elle a voulu téléphoner en Israël en hébreu, la personne à l'autre bout du fil lui a directement répondu en français, alors que le seul mot qu'elle avait eu le temps de prononcer était : *allo* !
Dotée d'un bon sens de l'auto-dérision, ma soeur en a beaucoup ri et continue à en rire jusqu'à ce jour.


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## elianecanspeak

Encolpius said:


> Of course I agree, *there is always some accent left*, I must confess I am not an actor at the National Theatre or newscaster at the main national radio, but not long ago I have had an interesting event which proofs my Czech is rather good. I have been honoured by a local who said "you know, we Czechs" when he talked to me and his talk had a rather xenophobic overtones about a neighbouring country and I really felt honoured.  I mean it.



What is always difficult is understanding the meaning of "we" in languages that have only one word for it.  "We (inclusive)" includes both the speaker and the listener; "we (exclusive) refers to the the speaker and others, but excludes the listener. (Languages that make the distinction between the two forms include Indonesian, Tamil, Quechua, an Mandarin, to name a few.)

I tend to be a little leery when someone says "we" to me in cases whether it is unclear if I am included or excluded in the speaker's intention.


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## krloszz

...A long thread until here . I only speak properly, apart from Spanish, my native language, English.

My English accent is pretty american, obviously due to geographic proximity, media influence, etc, etc. Canadians and people from USA have told me that I speak like 'white', in opposition to traditional mexican or 'chicano' accent. I love British accent, but I haven't been exposed enough to imitate properly.

Apart from English, I know a little of various languages: Portuguese (Eu falou com um sotaque um pouco carioca, but, is frankly portunhol), French (I have only notions, but natives says that I do sound rather good), German (My cousins from Germany told me that I speak not like a foreigner, but like a robot  ), Catalan (I pronounce it like a barceloní, but when I do it effortlessly I start to speak like mexican... and I don't like that) and Nahuatl (That's the worst, Nahua-speakers-mostly from mexican country-only laugh at me, saying that I sound really unnatural and osh).

Anyway, I have a really good hability to imitate other languages (I'm just starting to study linguistics, and my best area is phonetics) and also other spanish accents (deshde el athento de madrith, pasando pol el acento boricua y el besho acento arhentinoo)... but, in tonal languages of Mexico (from oto-mangue family) I just can't distinguish between tones (there's a language in pacific coast, chatino, that have 17 tones!), and I haven't try with chinese but I expect more or less the same.

I think hability depends a lot in individual habilities, but also in the age of learning other foreign language (children that learn english in Mexico speak rather good, but people that learn after have 'dat meksikan aksen')... and the number or types of phonemes of your own language (I pronounce fine the difference between sheep and ship, but a lot spanish-speakers simply can't find the differences).

I'm sorry for my redaction, is awful . Greetings to all of you from Mexico.


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## mundosnuevos

Jasmine_Chila said:


> I'm a native English speaker from the UK, and I can't even fake a good American accent. So how can I ever expect to speak like I'm from Spain when Spanish isn't my first language?


 
This is funny, because in my case it's actually much easier!  
I've been told more times that I can count (in Spain) that I speak just like a Spaniard.  But I'm American and can't fake a good British accent either!  I always slip into a "Steve Irwin" after a few words and realize I just switched continents...


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## rolmich

Strange, very strange :
I was born and educated in France and always thought I had a french accent in foreign languages. Lately though I am told I have a german accent. True, my parents mothertongue was german but they only used the language between themselves and not with us the children. Could it be that brought out by a kind of _passive impregnation* _the accent of my parents resurfaces in me ?
Someone told me lately that this accent gives him a feeling of trust and reliability.
I explained to this person that I do not manufacture cars or washing machines so that his feeling should not concern me, but to no avail.


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## lainyn

Je pense que mon accent français est à peu près une combination de l'accent français et de l'accent franco-canadien. Je peux mettre l'accent sur mon accent canadienne si je veux. Quand j'étais au Québec, j'essayais plus fort de parler en joual. Moi, je n'aime pas beaucoup ce joual, mais c'est assez important pour communiquer avec les jeunes au Québec. Je dirais que mon accent est très bon pour une anglophone, mais tout le monde reconnait que je suis anglophone. 

(Altogether, I'm tempted to say that a strong _joual_ accent sounds a bit like redneck English.)

Como hablo también español, a veces es difícil distinguir entre el francés y el español, entonces, mi acento es una mezcla de los dos idiomas. Cuando estaba en Guatemala, la gente me preguntaba "¿Eres de España?". Puedo adquirir casi cualquier acento, pero la mayoría de tiempo, hablo "español internacional".

íMi acento mejora cuando estoy borracha!


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## English Speaker

Hi there¡

Well, My first language is Spanish .

I can't really tell how my accent is in English, but the only thing I know, is that, when I spoke Hebrew I had an English accent jajaja, now, I'm studying Italian and it is very easy for me because as we all know it is sister of the Spanish, and well, I've got an exellenct accent almost native.

On the other hand, I'm also studying Japanese, the pronunciation is truly easy but I conserve my Spanish accent, maybe because the pronunciation is phonetics.


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## Roy776

Well, my native languages are German and English, yet my English is not as good as my German is. Most probably, because I live here in Germany. But still, everybody I've talked to in English so far told me, that apart from some grammatical errors of mine, I could not be that easily distinguished from a real american. At least not in regards of pronounciation. British people, though, always tell me that I'm definitely not from the UK but can't tell that I'm from Germany.

Spanish is another story. While reading out loud, I can keep up a very good spanish accent, as far as I heard. But when I talk, I never get it completely right. Maybe because I have no time to think about the pronounciation. I always sound like a german then. Same counts for Portuguese.

And lastly: Polish.
Well, let's say... I'm easily distinguishable from a polish person. I think that I get the pronounciation right at times, but more often than not fail with different consonant clusters. Especially the many "sh" and "ch" sounds make it difficult for me to speak fluently. Although I'm improving, it's still quite problematic. Furthermore, native polish speakers always seem to have some kind of undertone while speaking. That, I'm also lacking.


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## Copperknickers

My French accent is O.K., although I find a lot of the vowels hard because you have to constantly switch the position of your mouth to get them to fit, unlike in Scots where we just slur all our consonants and vowels together. That's probably why I find Indian accents so easy. Strangely however, my Italian accent is almost native, and I can do any English accent you care to name.


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## Ben Jamin

Roy776 said:


> And lastly: Polish.
> Well, let's say... I'm easily distinguishable from a polish person. I think that I get the pronounciation right at times, but more often than not fail with different consonant clusters. Especially the many "sh" and "ch" sounds make it difficult for me to speak fluently. Although I'm improving, it's still quite problematic. Furthermore, native polish speakers always seem to have some kind of undertone while speaking. That, I'm also lacking.


 
It is funny, becuase Poles listening to most of German speakers speaking Polish hear a very strong "undertone" in their speech, that gives them out as non natives just after one uttered word (the same is usually true with English and French speakers). As for themselves, the Poles think they have no "undertone" at all, and the foreigners should just get rid of their undertone to sound more Polish.


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## olaszinho

Ben Jamin said:


> It is funny, becuase the Poles listening to the most of German speakers speaking Polish mean that they have a very strong "undertone" in their speech, that gives them out as non natives just after one uttered word (the same is usually true with English and French speakers). As for themselves, the Poles mean they have no "undertone" at all, and the foreigners should just get rid of their undertone to sound more Polish.


 

The same phenomenon occurs when a foreigner speaks Italian. (particularly English, German, French and Spanish people) Some people  said above they are able to speak Italian almost like natives. I do not want to be rude but this sounds quite hilarious. I know people who have been living in Italy for more than ten years and they still can't pronounce properly double consonants, distinguish tz and dz sounds or open and closed e and o vowels, not to mention the intonation. Even though the Italian pronunciation is not that difficult, the intonation is really peculiar and just a few foreigners can reproduce it properly. I have never heard an English or an American person speaking Italian without an accent, apart from people brought up in Italy. Another Spanish speaking girl claimed she could speak Italian as a native after only fifteen days!! Probably she was able to speak Spanish with a touch of Italian.  The Spanish language does not possess double consonants; tz and dz sounds, open and closed vowels (e and o) and the intonation is quite different, a Spanish speaking person generally tends to speak Italian with the same sounds and intonation as in their mother tongue, hence  they  are easily recognizable just after an uttered word, particularly if this word contains a double consonant. I am perfectly aware of the fact that one might say the same for most  Italians speaking foreign languages.


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## Ben Jamin

olaszinho said:


> The same phenomenon occurs when a foreigner speaks Italian. (particularly English, German, French and Spanish people) Some people said above they are able to speak Italian almost like natives. I do not want to be rude but this sounds quite hilarious. I know people who have been living in Italy for more than ten years and they still can't pronounce properly double consonants, distinguish tz and dz sounds or open and closed e and o vowels, not to mention the intonation. Even though the Italian pronunciation is not that difficult, the intonation is really peculiar and just a few foreigners can reproduce it properly. I have never heard an English or an American person speaking Italian without an accent, apart from people brought up in Italy. Another Spanish speaking girl claimed she could speak Italian as a native after only fifteen days!! Probably she was able to speak Spanish with a touch of Italian.  The Spanish language does not possess double consonants; tz and dz sounds, open and closed vowels (e and o) and the intonation is quite different, a Spanish speaking person generally tends to speak Italian with the same sounds and intonation as in their mother tongue, hence they are easily recognizable just after an uttered word, particularly if this word contains a double consonant. I am perfectly aware of the fact that one might say the same for most Italians speaking foreign languages.


 I heard once that the speakers of the Rome dialect do not pronounce double consonnants.


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## koniecswiata

What Olaszinho said about Spanish-speakers and Italians was confirmed by a friend of mine--an Italian teacher in Chile.  Most Chileans had an extremely hard time with Italian pronunciation--they thought they were speaking with no/or little accent, but they were not distinguishing between "ce" and "sce" or "ia" and "gia" or "s" and "z" not to mention the double consonants or long vs. short vowels--all lacking in Spanish.  It's much the same story for Spanish-speakers when trying to pronounce other languages be it Portuguese or English or virtually anything else.


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## merquiades

Ben Jamin said:


> I heard once that the speakers of the Rome dialect do not pronounce double consonnants.



I heard the same think about the northern third of Italy.


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## Giorgio Lontano

lainyn said:


> Cuando estaba en Guatemala, la gente me preguntaba "¿Eres de España?".



De seguro pronunciás muy bien la C y la Z. 

My English accent is pretty much that of my main teacher: Jerry Seinfield ("not that there's anything wrong with that"). I have the ability to tell apart certain English accents (I can tell if you're from Houston ) so I can make not-so-good imitations of them.

My Portuguese accent can pass for Brazilian in short conversations. I once ordered a _chopp_ and after the other person in my table ordered theirs, I was asked by the _garçom_ if I was Brazilian. In Niterói, I was asking directions to a lady and she asked me if I was paulista. A taxi driver also didn't realise I was a foreigner until I started speaking Spanish to my companions.


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## olaszinho

Nowadays all Italians pronounce double consonants when they speak standard Italian, but it is true that geminate  consonants do not exist in most Northern dialects, such as Venetian or Lombard. As for the Italian spoken in Rome I have to say that Romans do use double consonants but sometimes in a different way. For instance they (especially older or uneducated people) pronounce LiBBia instead of LiBia or teRa instead of teRRa.


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## Masood

My Spanish accent is very good and many a Spaniard has commented on it. The pronunciation of 't', 'd', 'j', rr, etc all spot on. Probably because my 2nd language is Punjabi and most of these sounds are identical in Spanish and Punjabi.

What really lets me down is the opportunity to converse in Spanish - my listening skills, in particular, are very poor, unfortunately.


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## Beninjam

My accent in French instantly identifies me as a Brit, and people expect me to do something Monty Pythonish. 40 years ago they used to tell me about hiding English airmen, but that generation has passed. In Dutch, however, I'm not so identifiable and many either put my down as a German native or from a neighbouring village.


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## cipotarebelde

I know I have a slight accent in my Spanish, but after 20 years in Central America, its a "foreign accent" without clear indication from where for anyone who isn't looking at me. Identity as a foreigner is hard to erase. As an immigrant, I have learned to assimilate when and how I can, but accept that to some people I will always be first "a foreigner". What annoys me most is when people act like they can't understand me because they looked at me and decided I can't speak Spanish. I call it "gringo freeze". 

I do think a lot of people from the US living in or traveling to other countries struggle with not sounding like they are from the US more for issues of not wanting to be judged by others for their country of origin than simply wanting to perfect their second language. At least that is my experience over the last 25 years of meeting and working with lots of US nationals living and traveling outside of the US.


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## Kurtchen

Beninjam said:


> many either put my down as a German native.


As a German speaker count your blessings they didn't put you down, period. Haha and don't mention the war


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## rubidou

It's really depressing ... I guess I never had any real problems with figuring out how a certain pronunciation/accent 'functions', which is why people don't really suspect me to come from Germany at first (I don't look German either, nor do I have 100% German ancestry).

But now that I started learning Russian 1 1/2 years ago, I'm slowly but surely getting frustrated. I think I'll never learn how to distinguish soft and hard consonants, find out how vocal reduction functions or keep in mind which syllables are stressed. I have a very bad accent. It's hopeless.


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## cipotarebelde

rubidou said:


> It's really depressing ... I guess I never had any real problems with figuring out how a certain pronunciation/accent 'functions', which is why people don't really suspect me to come from Germany at first (I don't look German either, nor do I have 100% German ancestry).
> 
> But now that I started learning Russian 1 1/2 years ago, I'm slowly but surely getting frustrated. I think I'll never learn how to distinguish soft and hard consonants, find out how vocal reduction functions or keep in mind which syllables are stressed. I have a very bad accent. It's hopeless.



I really do think that improvement is always possible through careful practice, but that the innate ability to mimic sounds and rhythms may be more like musical ability: some were born with a lot more than others.


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## elianecanspeak

Most language teaching systems focus more on grammar and literature and less on pronunciation, which, in my personal experience studying languages, is rarely comprehensively taught.  

Many language teachers do not have very much speech training.  I have been lucky because my first foreign language teacher, Miss Meeker at Abbott Junior High, as a quasi-native speaker of three languages emphasized pronunciation and taught it well.

A lot of language learners do not this basic training in the sound and rhythm of the language.  This is a real disservice, because if we cannot be understood we cannot communicate.  

I have had brilliant friends whose English grammar was perfect, but they were never chosen for positions that required verbal communication with the public because of the difficulty for the average unilingual American English speaker to understand them.  Of course, the same average English speakers often had difficulty understanding dialects of English other than their own, again because of lack of exposure. I have a friend from the Bronx (New York City) who was turned down for teaching jobs in the arts in the Midwest because of her accent.


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## rubidou

cipotarebelde said:


> I really do think that improvement is always possible through careful practice, but that the innate ability to mimic sounds and rhythms may be more like musical ability: some were born with a lot more than others.



You're certainly right, but I do think - at least as far as I'm concerned -  this principle seems to apply only to _some_ languages ...


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## Angelo di fuoco

Early exposure to at least some foreign languages is the clue. I've heard an American guy in his mid-twenties sing an excellent Russian without any previous knowledge of the language. Even if not perfect, the accent was light and on the whole the pronunciation was clear and understandable.
Moreover, I've heard Germans with excellent Russian pronunciation, even if I must admit they were few - but then, in Western Germany I don't that often come across Germans with knowledge of the Russian language.


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## elianecanspeak

One critical  factor is how much the phonology and tonality of a first an second language overlap (e.g. Spanish and Indonesian v. Mandarin and French).  Also, pronunciation in singing is usually much easier than in speaking, because of rhythm, repetition and association with tone. 

Some resources:

Mora, Carmen Fonseca. "Foreign Language Acquisition and Melody Singing". in ELT Journal, Vol. 54/2, April 2000, pp. 146-152.

Murphey, Tim. Song and Music in Language Learning. Peter Lang, 1990.

 Singing, chanting , telling tales: Arts in the language classroom. New York: Pearson Education. 

Medina, S. ( 2002), “Using Music to Enhance Second Language Acquisition: From Theory to Practice.” http://www.forefrontpublishers.com/eslmusic/articles/06.htm / also in Lalas, J. & Lee, S. (2002). Language, Literacy, and Academic Development for English language Learners. Pearson Educational Publishing.


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## arielipi

when i was still learning english officially, my north-american(usa) cousin told me that she could only tell my accent after five minutes of talking. needless to say ive [as we say in hebrew] got a good ear for the music(meaning, i differ sounds pretty easily, god with music and such]. i personally really felt the muscles develop as i was speaking for the first years. also i am good with mimicking accents if i hear them enough. i worked with russians for two months and i could chat with them a bit... its been said here - its an innate ability, some are better and some are not, just like in everything else.

a great tip i can give is to give up on subtitles,read books,hear music of the language youre learning.


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## Leica

I definitely have an accent when I speak English, but it's not a typical German accent. People usually can tell I'm not a native, but they don't know where I'm from. They just hear something strange in my accent. Some people think I'm from a different part of the country where people speak weird. 
But due to my grammatical mistakes they figure out very soon, that I'm not a native.


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## Pedro y La Torre

arielipi said:


> when i was still learning english officially, my north-american(usa) cousin told me that she could only tell my accent after five minutes of talking. needless to say ive [as we say in hebrew] got a good ear for the music(meaning, i differ sounds pretty easily, god with music and such]. i personally really felt the muscles develop as i was speaking for the first years. also i am good with mimicking accents if i hear them enough. i worked with russians for two months and i could chat with them a bit... its been said here - its an innate ability, some are better and some are not, just like in everything else.
> 
> a great tip i can give is to give up on subtitles,read books,hear music of the language youre learning.



Israelis usually speak excellent English, perhaps because of the strong links to North American Jewish communities. I have come across one or two who, despite working in positions where they dealt with English speakers daily, were very difficult to understand. This does not seem to be the norm, though.


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## tFighterPilot

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Israelis usually speak excellent English, perhaps because of the strong links to North American Jewish communities. I have come across one or two who, despite working in positions where they dealt with English speakers daily, were very difficult to understand. This does not seem to be the norm, though.


It's mainly because we have mostly American stuff on TV, and they're not dubbed (unless they're for young kids).


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## arielipi

Were talking about accents, and thats different than speaking, you can speak perfectly but be the german stereotype viz ze z instead of ze the and v replacing ze w.


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## dreamlike

It probably verges on off-topic, but let me just put my two cents in since you brought up this issue. 



			
				tFighterPilot said:
			
		

> It's mainly because we have mostly American stuff on TV, and they're not dubbed (unless they're for young kids).



That's true, and yet not all Israelis take the full advantage of the possibilities they are offered. A friend of mine participates in the IB diploma programme- and his class took part in the exchange with some Isreali class. They've been to Isreael and later have been visited by Israeli students. I got to talk to some of them - and their grasp of English was often worse than that of Polish students - which came as a shock to me. I thought Israelis are renowned for their fair command of English - some of them, it turns out, are not - and let me remind they were IB students after all. 

As for the topic in question, I only recently started to attach importance to the quality of my pronunciation. In past, I would just make a point of pronouncing the words properly - now I strive to stress them the way the should be stressed, and make my speech flow - if you know what I mean.

As for the accent - I think that apart from misusing the articles every now and then, it's the second thing that gives me away. Native English speakers usually identify me as a foreigner, they're unable to point the exact country, though. At least that was the case some year ago - I think that I have improved my accent since that time. (or it's only a wishful thinking...)


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## LilianaB

Israeli people usually speak American English, maybe this is what confused you, Dreamlike. You may actually think that half of Brooklyn speaks very bad English. I personally think there is nothing wrong if a person speaks with a slight accent. It is better that the person speaks authentic language, as opposed to some mimicked version, with an almost native accent. I knew somebody who was Polish, a young girl who spoke with a strong New Jersey working class accent, which sounded very weird for a college student from Europe. It might sound fine for the people who belong to that group, and have a special charm, but when an outsider mimics it without realizing what it is, it sounds hilarious.


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## dreamlike

I can tell the difference between AmE and BrE, but I doubt those students were using any of the variations - the English they used was simply poor and they had great difficulty expressing their thoughts accurately. It was a year ago, and they were relatively young, though (at my age) - so I guess I shouldn't excpect everyone to speak decent English at the tender age of 17... I heard countless times that Israeli people speak very good English so I made this point to show that my experience is different - there was nothing exceptional about English of Isreali I met and talked to. It is a given that those who have been living in U.S. for a long time speak perfect English but this does not necessarily hold true for Israelis living in their country.

I agree with you, Liliana, that one is better off speaking with slight accent than trying to mimic the accent of Englishmen or Americans at all cost - unless he or she is very good at it. I've never really worked on my accent but I think I'll be able to speak with one if I put in enough effort. I'm going to study English as my major in 7 months - hopefully, I'll learn some accent during that time.


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## LilianaB

Yes, you are right Dreamlike, a person should sound natural, which does not mean necessarily exactly like a native speaker but like himself or herself and not like a parrot. Are you going for the Philology Department. Don't go to any two year translation colleges. This is a waste of time, in my opinion. I have heard they have something like that in Europe: I even met some people and they had no clue about anything related to linguistics. Maybe they just went to the wrong place.


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## Sepia

deleted to avoid double posts


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## Sepia

arielipi said:


> Were talking about accents, and thats different than speaking, you can speak perfectly but be the german stereotype viz ze z instead of ze the and v replacing ze w.


Sure, but one picks up accents from watching foreign language television too. I've often been taken for someone from the East Coast although I've spent a maximum 3 Days of my life there. But a lot of the TV series and movies I've watched took place there. So in my dreams I must have spent enough time there to pick up their accents.


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## arielipi

And how does that add/contradict/anything to what I said?


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## bellatrix27

jess oh seven said:


> Also, most of the time I can't say the Spanish "rr". This annoys me. It's improved, but I can't maintain the sound. Every time a Spanish news reporter rolls the r in "por" I get a little more bitter.



HEY! if you want to practice rolling your RR's, make sure you are alone, and put a finger under your tongue and move it side to side while making a DeDeDe sound (D) continuously. this is essentially what the rolled R movement is, and after a bunch of hours total doing this, it should come to you. Its what I used for my russian R's =)

As for my accent, when I was in Central America, people thought I was a local until they heard me speaking english! it probably helps that I look a little Latina !

I made a friend down there, who is from France. She couldn't roll her R's and had the cutest french accent in spanish, she actually sounded like she was speaking french, in spanish! Intonation and everything.


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## rainbow84uk

I studied Spanish from the ages of 14 to 22 and moved to Spain at 23. I've now been here for 5 years and it's only in the last year or so that people have really started commenting on how good my Spanish is and how little accent I have...still makes me very happy! 

Now I'm starting to learn Georgian, and while I don't yet have the level to have developed any kind of accent, I'm already feeling the influence of Spanish on my Georgian pronunciation....not ideal, but it's quite funny to imagine myself one day being able to speak Georgian, but doing so with a thick Spanish accent!


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## das brennende Gespenst

Often when I talk to Germans they think I'm German and they ask me where I'm from. I ask them where they think I'm from and I've had a few interesting answers. The only answer I've had more than once is Berlin. 

Of course, I have good accent days and bad accent days, and it tends to happen most when I'm drunk and when I don't have to switch between German and English. If I have to say even three or four words to someone else in English, it sometimes completely derails my German accent and I have to climb back on the train.

When speaking Swedish, I was once told that I had a Stockholm accent from the 1970s. I wasn't even aware that an accent could sound like a particular decade, but there it was. I'm pretty sure my Swedish accent has changed now though, and it's probably gotten worse.


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## AquisM

When I speak Mandarin, it's obvious to anybody that I am from the south (of China), and perhaps a native would be able to pinpoint Hong Kong. We pronounce our words differently to northerners, who roll their tongues a lot, while we southerners reduce everything to alveolar consonants.


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## germanbz

Well, I should say that my accent still have a way of "eighties' english course tape". And I'm not trying to say that my English is pretty nice or academic, of course not. I mean that I think that years later, my English still sounds with the entonation of the voices in that tapes.
Sometimes, when I say to somebody: "_listen_.." deep in my mind still resounds ...._and repeat_.


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## Phenyx13

Hello !

I know I have a french accent in english because when I say 2 or 3 words to a native, He/she always says : "Oh ! You're French ? I love Paris !" 
Some people told me I have something American in the way I speak, because I do learn English and pronouciation by mimicing what I hear, and I mostly watch american series  But I belong to the French community of people who pronouce "the" properly 
It is so funny when I hear my fellow countryman speaking english, with an accent so strong, pointing the obvious and telling that they are french

One thing I want to add : never loose your foreign accent in French, it is so cute


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## elirlandes

Phenyx13 said:


> One thing I want to add : never loose your foreign accent in French, it is so cute


We would say the reverse... never loose your French accent in English - it is so cute


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## Pedro y La Torre

elirlandes said:


> We would say the reverse... never loose your French accent in English - it is so cute



Only when it's not too strong. My sister-in-law's accent is so strong I can't understand what she says. Nothing sexy there.


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## elirlandes

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Only when it's not too strong. My sister-in-law's accent is so strong I can't understand what she says. Nothing sexy there.


Funny - I was thinking the same thing after hitting "post"... A tinge of French accent is very cute, but the full on _plouc de Perpète-les-Oies_ sounds awful...


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## LanguageUser1234

A related issue I've always found interesting is how people react to a non-native speaker who has a completely native accent. I remember that many years ago, during the Cold War, there was a spokesman for the Soviet government who appeared regularly in the media speaking impeccable, unaccented American English. (I also seem to recall that he had enough knowledge of U.S. culture to joke that his favorite baseball team was the Cincinnati Reds.)

I still remember that the sensation of hearing this guy (who was not only a "foreigner" but also a representative of the so-called "Evil Empire") sound so totally American was really weird and disorienting.


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## velisarius

Jeff_TX said:


> A related issue I've always found interesting is how people react to a non-native speaker who has a completely native accent. I remember that many years ago, during the Cold War, there was a spokesman for the Soviet government who appeared regularly in the media speaking impeccable, unaccented American English. (I also seem to recall that he had enough knowledge of U.S. culture to joke that his favorite baseball team was the Cincinnati Reds.)
> 
> I still remember that the sensation of hearing this guy (who was not only a "foreigner" but also a representative of the so-called "Evil Empire") sound so totally American was really weird and disorienting.



I couldn't agree more. And it always makes me concentrate on that 99.99% accurate accent instead of what is being said. I also find it very rare that someone with an impeccable accent manages at the same time to inject some feeling into what they are saying. They tend to sound bland. I prefer to hear authentic intonation and rhythm than authentic pronunciation.


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## Pedro y La Torre

velisarius said:


> I couldn't agree more. And it always makes me concentrate on that 99.99% accurate accent instead of what is being said. I also find it very rare that someone with an impeccable accent manages at the same time to inject some feeling into what they are saying. They tend to sound bland. I prefer to hear authentic intonation and rhythm than authentic pronunciation.



I agree too. I was watching a documentary on Joseph Goebbles the other night, and there was a portion where he was being interviewed by American journalists. His interpreter (who was also German) had a flawless RP accent. It was very distracting, particularly as I found myself thinking, ''how on earth could someone who is obviously very intelligent be content to work for a beast like Goebbles?''.


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## Ben Jamin

Pedro y La Torre said:


> I agree too. I was watching a documentary on Joseph Goebbles the other night, and there was a portion where he was being interviewed by American journalists. His interpreter (who was also German) had a flawless RP accent. It was very distracting, particularly as I found myself thinking, ''how on earth could someone who is obviously very intelligent be content to work for a beast like Goebbles?''.


You make two assumptions that are not very well justified: 
1. Good accent = very intelligent person.
2. Very intelligent person = a good person that can't be cruel.

Moreover the assumption 1. leads directly to a prejudice: bad accent = unintelligent person. This prejudice has been documented by research in the US, where people judged persons with bad accent as less intelligent than those with a perfect native accent, even though they said exactly the same. The same prejudice is of course widespread all over the word.


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## Hulalessar

velisarius said:


> I couldn't agree more. And it always makes me concentrate on that 99.99% accurate accent instead of what is being said. I also find it very rare that someone with an impeccable accent manages at the same time to inject some feeling into what they are saying. They tend to sound bland. I prefer to hear authentic intonation and rhythm than authentic pronunciation.



There is a bit of a paradox here. I think a good working definition of "standard language"  is "the variety foreigners learn". Native speakers rarely follow the standard meticulously. Keeping to English English, even someone considered to have cultivated speech will articulate some "t's" as glottal stops and drop "h's" in certain contexts. If you have learned a language otherwise than by immersion you are always going to pronounce any given word in the same way and with its correct (i.e. dictionary recommended) articulation whatever the context - exceptions will be words like "of" which have stressed and unstressed pronunciations. You are going to pronounce "it" as /ɪt/ and "he" as /hiː/ wherever they occur. These small phonological differences will be picked up, probably unconsciously, by native speakers giving them a vague feeling that something is not quite right and accordingly leading to the paradox that 100% correct pronunciation is perceived as non-native.

The feeling that someone speaking impeccably is unemotional also applies to native speakers. Apparently, RP speakers come across as distant, but reliable. That is of course due to social conditioning and not to any intrinsic quality of RP.


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## Ben Jamin

Jeff_TX said:


> A related issue I've always found interesting is how people react to a non-native speaker who has a completely native accent.


Here is another aspect of this situation:
I read a book by George Mikes "Land of the rising yen". He reported that if the Japanese met a foreigner who spoke perfect Japanes they denied the fact that the person was foreign. They asked him (a blond guy) "why have you dyed your hair blond?".


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## elirlandes

Jeff_TX said:


> A related issue I've always found interesting is how people react to a non-native speaker who has a completely native accent.



I regularly have to explain that I am not in fact Spanish - only when conversation has been on regular topics only etc and I am not easily spotted, or when not tired... 

Sometimes I get a reaction to this which is that there is an assumption that I actually have become Spanish and have happily left my Irish identity behind...  (nothing could be further from the truth!) and there is a further assumption that I have a preference for all things Spanish and that this is the reason I have "switched sides"... It is really frustrating.

I had an interesting one yesterday where I was chatting to two Catalan guys about their elections, putting forward an Irish point of view on them in Castillian Spanish - they were really confused because they assumed that with my level in the language, I would proffer a Spanish point of view, not that of a foreigner.


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## Brimstone

JamesM said:


> I worked very hard in college to imitate my French professor... who was German.  I didn't know any better. Of course, I ended up with a German accent in French that still pops up from time to time.     I've actually had people ask me what part of Germany I come from when I'm speaking French.
> 
> I've worked hard to standardize my accent a little more over the years but I know I'll never sound like a native.  I'm fine with that.  I just don't want to ever sound like the ugly American saying  "parr-lay vooz Ann-glaze".  It hurts my ears.
> 
> If I won the lottery I think one of the first things I would do would be to move to France and enter an immersion program for at least three months.  It sounds like heaven to me.


When I was taking my writing class at the Phoenix Community College, I had a lot of classmates from diffrent countrys around the world: Japanese, Serbs, Ethiopians, Mexicans...and I remember that the Etiopians ones were used to asking our teacher, Miss Rogers, why I didn´t have an accent (being myself a Mexican). They really wanted to know why. The real reason why I don´t have an accent, a strong one I mean, is because I started learning English as a child. But let me tell you this: I do have an accent, a slight one, but I do have it. And I remember me listening to another English teacher telling me that my accent was a slight one. The funny thing is that many of my classmates wanted to know why I didn´t sound like them. Anyway, let me share with you guys what Miss Rogers told her class about their question about my accent: "But it is really nice to have an accent". And they were really very pleased with that response.


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## anahiseri

I guess my French accent is rather bad because of the problems I have with the nasal vowels. 
I lived for 6 years in Brussels, and I remember that at the beginning, when I spoke French, people asked me if I was from Germany. I guess that's because I started with French in school in Germany (at 14, a bit too late I think) so I got a German accent. 

My English accent seems to be from "nowhere". I have the impression that most of the time I'm classified as a native, (well, according to my Cambridge diploma my level is supposed to be "near native"), but a native *from nowhere. *I suppose this happens to a lot of people who have a good command of a foreign language if they have learned a "neutral" standard.


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## Sepia

Native from nowhere is the whole trick about seeming to be a native speaker when you aren't one. I don't know of any other language where you can pull that off.

If the note some kind of accent they seem think it is just from somewhere else. You can't imagine how often I was taken for an American from somewhere other than my present location at the moment, when I travelled in the US or in Canada. Normally I speak BE (more influenced by single role models than a certain region), but in America I let them believe that I am a native somewhere over there. There is several good reasons for doing that. One of them is security.


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## Nimbrethil

I love languages, especially English. I practice as much as I can but I hadn’t been to any English speaking country myself. Last year I went to London. I have an accent, but people could not say where I came from based on it, so I think that is good

I’m learning French now. I find the “r” sound is quite difficult. When there is a “g” before, as in “grotte”, it is a nightmare .

A couple times, other Spanish people asked me from which country I came ... Apparently my Spanish accent was not convincing enough !


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## Ben Jamin

Nimbrethil said:


> I love languages, especially English. I practice as much as I can but I hadn’t been to any English speaking country myself. Last year I went to London. I have an accent, but people could not say where I came from based on it, so I think that is good
> 
> I’m learning French now. I find the “r” sound is quite difficult. When there is a “g” before, as in “grotte”, it is a nightmare .


Most Englishmen won't recognise a Spanish speaker unless he pronounces the R in "right" like in "corrida" and the H in "have" as in "Javier". The French R was also difficult for me, and I practiced at least one hour a day in weeks. You can begin with pronouncing the French R as Spanish "J" and then slowly moving the articulation point forwards in the mouth until you come to the French sound.


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## Nawaq

Nimbrethil said:


> I’m learning French now. I find the “r” sound is quite difficult. When there is a “g” before, as in “grotte”, it is a nightmare .



Hi!

I don't think you should worry too much about the way you say your Rs. There is at least 3 ways of saying it, and people are fine with that. The U is IMHO the letter people should most concentrate on, but maybe you already have a good command of this one. 

AFAICT, people seem to overly focus on it/overdo it, or stress it too much, which gives a weird-funny R . But really, any R is fine, it's not like in Spanish I think, where you have to make/there is a difference between a single R and a double one for example (correct me if I'm wrong).

Try saying _Richard_ and _serrurerie_.  In _Richard_, the first R is a little more audible than the last (when I say it at least), it's good for practice I think (sorry if you already knew that). Depending on where it is placed, the R is going to be more or less marked (like in your word _grotte_), I never knew why this wasn't specified in IPA (or is it ?), I'm sure it could help people*.

*but again, as I said above, any R could work, so it's probably not that good of an idea/necessary to make the distinction...


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## rolmich

I remember learning German in school in France. Not only the emphasis was not on a proper accent, but it was considered snobbish and pretentious to try having a proper accent : for instance the word "fogel" (bird) was pronounced 
"vos gueules". So you should not be astonished that so many Frenchmen speak with a terrible accent foreign languages.
Note : this was many years ago and I would assume that things changed in French schools teaching foreign languages today.


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## WyomingSue

I am excited to say that since my post #45 in 2010 I had the experience of speaking Spanish to a Puerto Rican, and she asked me if I was from Colombia! As a previous poster commented, the native from nowhere. Yay for progress!
A few days ago I was flying on a Taiwanese flight from Taipei to Seattle. The staff made the usual announcements in Japanese and Chinese, and then one of the pilots welcomed us to the flight in English. I commented to my husband that he sounded like he was a German! So either a German speaking English and flying for a Taiwanese
carrier, or a Taiwanese who learned his English in Germany ... in any case not the expected Chinese accent.


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## merquiades

WyomingSue said:


> I am excited to say that since my post #45 in 2010 I had the experience of speaking Spanish to a Puerto Rican, and she asked me if I was from Colombia! As a previous poster commented, the native from nowhere. Yay for progress!.


  Congratulations.  Did you live in Colombia or have any connections to that country?


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## WyomingSue

I did spend several months there.


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