# Из-под палки



## toyka96

How to translate this expression "из-под палки" in the context of the sentence: "А если здороваются, то точно из-под палки." (the grandmother is talking about the local Koreans as unwilling to say hello to each other).


----------



## Vadim K

under duress


----------



## rusita preciosa

Vadim K said:


> under duress


That's a little too strong, as if they are tortured or threatened.

I'd simply say *only if they are forced to*


----------



## Vadim K

rusita preciosa said:


> That's a little too strong, as if they are tortured or threatened.



Ok



rusita preciosa said:


> I'd simply say *only if they are forced to*



In this context "_то точно_" rather means "_как-будто_". Then may be it would be better to say "_as if they are forced to_".


----------



## toyka96

Cheers! I like the combination of " as if under duress."


----------



## Vadim K

toyka96 said:


> Cheers! I like the combination of " as if under duress."



Мне кажется, что так сказать нельзя в английском. Нужно подлежащее и сказуемое.


----------



## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> Мне кажется, что так сказать нельзя в английском. Нужно подлежащее и сказуемое.


Вовсе нет – _as if_ сочетается с наречиями (или наречными оборотами) не хуже, чем русское _как_. Смысл здесь «здороваются с таким видом, будто их палкой заставляют», однако слово _duress_ по мне звучит слишком уж официально, чтобы подойти в таком разговорном обороте. Не приходит в голову идиоматического английского выражения, но могу предложить "And when they do, they look at you like you're twisting their arm".


----------



## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> Вовсе нет – _as if_ сочетается с наречиями (или наречными оборотами) не хуже, чем русское _как_. Смысл здесь «здороваются с таким видом, будто их палкой заставляют», однако слово _duress_ по мне звучит слишком уж официально, чтобы подойти в таком разговорном обороте. Не приходит в голову идиоматического английского выражения, но могу предложить "And when they do, they look at you like you're twisting their arm".



Тогда может быть "_as if under pressure_"?


----------



## Colora

English expression "force someone's hand" is the good way to capture the feelings and attitude when someone is made to do something unwillingly, in our particular case, when someone is made to say "Hi!" against his/or her will.  "And, if they say "Hi!"- it feels as if you force their hand (and make them respond to you)."


----------



## Drink

Colora said:


> English expression "force someone's hand" is the good way to capture the feelings and attitude when someone is made to do something unwillingly, in our particular case, when someone is made to say "Hi!" against his/or her will.  "And, if they say "Hi!"- it feels as if you force their hand (and make them respond to you)."



I don't think your suggestion fits very well in this scenario.

I would translate the sentence like this: "They'll say hello to you only begrudgingly."

Another option is to rephrase the sentence in the negative: "They won't say hello to you, unless [fill in idiom here].", where one example could be "unless you put a gun to their heads", but there are many options.


----------



## Colora

Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.


----------



## Vadim K

Drink said:


> I don't think your suggestion fits very well in this scenario.
> 
> I would translate the sentence like this: "They'll say hello to you only begrudgingly."
> 
> Another option is to rephrase the sentence in the negative: "They won't say hello to you, unless [fill in idiom here].", where one example could be "unless you put a gun to their heads", but there are many options.



Please, don't forget about the word "_точно_" expressed by the speaker, which switches the expression to the subjunctive mood.


----------



## esperansa

Colora said:


> Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.



What do you think of the words "reluctantly" or "unwillingly"? 
If they say a greeting, they do it unwillingly for sure.


----------



## Enquiring Mind

"Begrudgingly", "grudgingly", "reluctantly", "unwillingly" are all ok. Good suggestions in #3 and #10 too. Another option: _you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them._

[Prise* (поднимать, передвигать _или_ взламывать посредством рычага; снимать с помощью рычага) (source: translate.enacademic.com)
2) выбивать, получать с трудом (_информацию_)
_The police had the greatest difficulty in prising the truth out of the prisoner. — Выбить из подсудимого правду стоило полиции титанических усилий.
You'll have a hard time prising any information out of him. — Тебе придётся потрудиться, чтобы выведать у него хоть что-нибудь_]
*AE speakers may prefer "pry" to "prise".

And another: _you'd _[= you would] _be hard put** to get a "hello" out of them._
**в затруднении, поставленный в затруднительное положение, стоящий перед проблемой (source: translate.enacademic.com)


----------



## toyka96

The last idiom sounds more natural, i.e. "_you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them."_


----------



## Drink

Colora said:


> Well, "begrudgingly" is a solid good word that can be used for this expression legitimately. Though, this word is fairly old and not used very often.



Google Ngrams begs to differ. (For those of you who can't click the link, it shows that the use of "begrudgingly" is very popular and has only been rising in popularity since the mid-19th century, and especially since 1960.)

Alternatives like "unwillingly" or "reluctantly" would also work, but I feel that "begrudgingly" fits the best.



Vadim K said:


> Please, don't forget about the word "_точно_" expressed by the speaker, which switches the expression to the subjunctive mood.



I went for the overall feel of the sentence and I don't think anything is missing.



Enquiring Mind said:


> "Begrudgingly", "grudgingly", "reluctantly", "unwillingly" are all ok. Good suggestions in #3 and #10 too. Another option: _you'll be lucky if you can prise a "hello" out of them._



Good option. Is it a British thing to use "prise" instead of "pry"?


----------



## Enquiring Mind

> Is it a British thing to use "prise" instead of "pry"?


 Yes, if you like. Or perhaps it's an American thing to use "pry" instead of "prise". 


> *AE speakers may prefer "pry" to "prise".


----------



## Drink

Enquiring Mind said:


> Yes, if you like. Or perhaps it's an American thing to use "pry" instead of "prise".



Oh I should have read your post more thoroughly. I didn't realize you had already mentioned this.


----------



## toyka96

So, guess both "pry" and "prise" are legitimate in this context?!


----------



## Drink

toyka96 said:


> So, guess both "pry" and "prise" are legitimate in this context?!



Yes, but they depend on whether you are writing in American or British English.


----------

