# puella cute cinnamomi



## Casquilho

Is _puella cute cinnamomi_ (_cute_ in ablative, _cinnamomi_ in genitive) an acceptable translation for "cinnamon-skinned girl/ girl of cinnamon skin"? I want to know what to do when there is no adjective for the qualificative of the atribute. In another thread, a member gently gave me _puella lintea comam_ (_lintea_ is adjective in nominative, _comam_ is noun in accusative) for "La fille aux cheveux de lin".

But then he knew of an adjective, _linteus, -a, -um,_, to express "linen-like, of linen". If I don't know or there is no adjective in Latin for "cinnamon-like", may I say as above? Tell me that, and, so help me the gods, I'll never ask for descriptions of quality again!


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

I don't think the genitive can work to qualify a noun. Latine has many adjectives formed with the suffix _-eus_ added to noun expressing a matter as _aureus_ <_ aurum_ (gold)_ ,_ golden or made of gold. Of course if you don't know it , you have to check its existence in a dictionary. It's the case for the adjective _cinnameus . _So the best is to say : _puella cute cinnamea_.
_Puella lintea comam_ is a poetic phrase whith the _Greek accusative ,_ as it was much more usual in Greek ( Relation accusative). Ovidius wrote _flava comas_ like Homeros
_κάρη ξανθός_ ( _karay xanthos_ ), literally " fair as to the hair ", fair-haired.


----------



## Casquilho

I heartily thank you, J. F. A member has explained to me the Greek Accusative, indeed, know I think I comprehend it. He gave the example _flava comas_ too.

But, let's say that the adjective _cinnameus_ doesn't exist. How would you solve the translation of my phrase? I mean, I'm searching for a general way to translate phrases of this kind. Double ablative, like, _puella cute cinnamomo_, would make any sense?


----------



## Calabrone

oi casq,tudo bem? I'm not sure if I understood your question exactly. are you asking what to do if there is not an adjective ? (Otherwise ,please, could you explain me what do you mean?  )  If there is not an adjective you can use a genitive.But it is uncommon.  http://books.google.it/books?id=Y0N...wAg#v=onepage&q="ablative of quality"&f=false  page 233,rule XXIX-Ablative of Quality-Remark 2.  De Bello Gallico:Book VI: Chapter 26: The Germans: A kind of unicorn.[53 BC] http://www.romansonline.com/Src_Frame.asp?DocID=Dbg_Bk06_26&Lat=L


> [26] Est bos cervi figura,  cuius a media fronte inter aures unum cornu exsistit





> There is an ox of the shape of a stag, between whose ears a horn rises from the middle of the forehead,


 *this animal ,maybe,is now extinct


----------



## Casquilho

Calabrone said:


> oi casq,tudo bem? I'm not sure if I understood your question exactly. are you asking what to do if there is not an adjective ?



Ay, that's exactly what I'm asking for.

_Est bos cervi figura_

If I did understand it, _figura_ is ablative of quality, and _cervi_ is genitive?

"Há um boi da figura de um cervo"/"There is an ox with the shape of a deer/stag".

So, my phrase, _puella cute cinnamomi_, has exactly the same cases of _bos figura cervi_, in this order. And therefore, it's grammatically correct, right? The writer, I suppose made the phrase thus, because there is no Latin adjective for "deer-like, of a deer", or because, if it does exist, he didn't know it. 

Just for curiosity: is there some alternative more classical, more "Latinish" for translating that phrase? Or is _bos figura cervi_ a rare thing, but a thing I could find in Pliny, for example? That is, a thing unusual, but not unclassical?


----------



## J.F. de TROYES

It's not so easy to find examples using the possesive phrase (_ cervi_ ) instead of the adjective  ,  but as Casquilho shows it, it's possible even though the adjective  exists here ( _cervinus _) . In old Latin, but also, later, in colloquial the qualifying phrase could be introduced with _cum_ ( Ennius : _cum tremulis anus artubus_ , an old woman with shaking limbs ), but in classical language it's better to avoid it. The ablative was also often relaced by the genitive to express a personal quality or feature.  In one phrase Cicero uses both of them : _vir magni ingenii summaque prudentia_. it's just a question of usage : one usually _says animo qiete es_, but rather _homo maximi animi_.


----------

