# Funeral customs



## coppergirl

Hi all!

I was wondering what funeral customs are like around the world. (I may have to attend a funeral later this week, which is why I thought of this).

In the USA, my family usually had an open-casket wake for a day or so before the funeral where people gathered round the dead person's body to pray and say goodbye to them privately, whilst consoling other family members and friends.  Then there was a funeral a day or so after that.

In England, my husband's family say that this custom has not been done here since Victorian times and people NEVER see the dead body at a wake, but just have a quiet memorial service with a closed casket.  He thinks the whole idea of seeing a dead body in a casket is not something he could cope with culturally, as he has never done this in England.

So the question is, do people in other countries still have wakes with an open casket or is this really mainly just in America nowadays?

Sorry if it's a bit morbid . . . just curious!   

Cheers!


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## coconutpalm

I attended my grandpa's funeral nine years ago and my grandma's,um, two years ago. We have wakes, but the caskets were closed. However, we didn't strike nails into them to shut them dead tight until  moment before we buried the body.


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## Eloisa Giseburt

You can see this link

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=116668


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## maxiogee

When my parents died we had an open-casket for my dad. He was taken home from the hospital where he died.
Family and friends gathered. He was in one of the bedrooms and people left the main room quietly for a few moments alone with the remains.
On the morning before the funeral the coffin was closed and remained in the house until about 5:30pm when we carried it the few hundred yeards to his local church. The local police held up the traffic to facilitate us. This was three miles from the centre of Dublin and we didn't have to ask them to do this. The undertaker told them the removal was that evening and they just assumed that we might wish to carry him, so there were there in case we did.

A few years later when my mother died she was in a nursing home and she was in a closed coffin for less than a day. The nuns who ran the home did not offer the facility of a room where we might have had an open coffin, and we didn't wish to bring her to the one family hosue she could have gone to (for reasons of family politics, alas). So although I'm not the eldest, people came to my home after a brief visit to the nursing home and we had a corpse-less wake. The remains were removed (by hearse) from the nursing home (who didn't seem to wish to have a coffin being seen to be carried away followed by a retinue of mourners) and driven the almost-a-mile to the local church.

Many people here avail of the services of funeral parlours for the open-casket part of the obsequies. Many of the big undertakers companies have 'branches' in the suburbs which have several rooms to facilitate this. 
When my wife's father died in a rural area, the family did not wish to encourage too many to call to the house and so they used the local funeral parlour. This is a growing trend in Ireland.


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## cherine

I'm not Christian, so I'll speak of the muslim tradition (in Egypt, I don't about the other countries) just in case anyone would be interested in knowing.

First, we have a proverb (maybe from a religious origin, but I'm not 100% sure) that says : (Ikraam el-mayyet dafno) which means : honoring a dead person is by burrying him/her. Thus when a person dies, the family rushes to finish the paper work (?) -that is the burrial permission- as quickly as possible, so they can honor their beloved one.
Before the burrial, the corpse is taken to a mosque, people make a certain prayer (called salaat al-janaza "the funeral prayer"), than take the person to his/her grave (sorry, I can't remember any of the literary expressions about this subject).
After the burrial, there's a sort of "condolence ceremony" (couldn't find a better translation  ) where people go offer their condolencens/ sympathies to the family.

As you see, this is very different from the Western costum of the wake, which by the way I first learned about in Camus' _L'Etranger_, and of course you can tell for yourselves that we can't have here because it goes absolutely against our tradition in "honoring our death".


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## maxiogee

In hot climates the speed with which a person is buried tells us about the local rate of decomposition as compared to colder climates.
I don't think I'd like to see a long-drawn out process liek we sometimes have here in Ireland. When my dad died it was about five days from death to funeral service.


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## coppergirl

Of course, in America, if the person has had a very bad or long illness and does not look good, often the family will have a closed casket out of respect.  Otherwise, the undertakers make the person up with special make up to look as good as they can (under the circumstances).

Mourners are expected to say things like "They look very good" or "They look peaceful at last" and things like that.   My husband finds it difficult to understand how people could look good when they are dead.

All the same, if people had a special dress or suit, they are often laid out in that as it was their favourite.  Similarly, they are often laid out in the casket with a religious object in their hands---a rosary or bible sometimes.  My great-grandfather got buried with his favourite pipe in his pocket.

I have heard that in the Jewish religion as well, people get buried within 24 hours and so do not have the custom of a wake or open casket.  

Thanks to all who have responded so far.  It is very interesting to see how this is viewed in other countries.


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## ElaineG

Yes, in Judaism, we believe that the body should be buried as quickly as possible in a plain wood casket. The funeral will always take place with in 48 hours, and often within 24. It is considered disrepectful to delay burial. 

There is no tradition of open-casket viewing, partly because Jewish law considers the practice of embalming to be a desecration of the body, so the corpse is not likely to be too lovely.

_After_ burial, the immediate family sits "shiva" for a period of 7 days. Everyone -- friends, family, co-workers etc. -- is supposed to stop by the mourners' home during this period, usually bringing something to eat (this is known as "paying a shiva call"). 

The nature of "shiva" really depends on the family and the circumstances of the death. Although there are many somber traditions associated with shiva -- all mirrors in the house are supposed to be covered, the mourners are supposed to sit on low stools (i.e., not be to comfortable), and the immediate family is supposed to rend their clothes (usually accomplished these days with a symbolic small tear -- in practice, when the deceased is elderly or another death that is not too tragic for whatever reason, shiva ends up being much like a "wake", with lots of eating, conversation and socializing. Of course, at other times, shiva is too sad for words. It really depends on the family and the circumstances.

_Edit_:  Unsurprisingly, of course, since we are close cousins underneath it all, our practice sounds more similar to the Islamic/Egyptian tradition described by Cherine than the typical American big casket, loads of flowers, etc. funeral.


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## Eloisa Giseburt

cherine said:
			
		

> I'm not Christian, so I'll speak of the muslim tradition (in Egypt, I don't about the other countries) just in case anyone would be interested in knowing.
> 
> First, we have a proverb (maybe from a religious origin, but I'm not 100% sure) that says : (Ikraam el-mayyet dafno) which means : honoring a dead person is by burrying him/her. Thus when a person dies, the family rushes to finish the paper work (?) -that is the burrial permission- as quickly as possible, so they can honor their beloved one.
> Before the burrial, the corpse is taken to a mosque, people make a certain prayer (called salaat al-janaza "the funeral prayer"), than take the person to his/her grave (sorry, I can't remember any of the literary expressions about this subject).
> After the burrial, there's a sort of "condolence ceremony" (couldn't find a better translation  ) where people go offer their condolencens/ sympathies to the family.
> 
> As you see, this is very different from the Western costum of the wake, which by the way I first learned about in Camus' _L'Etranger_, and of course you can tell for yourselves that we can't have here because it goes absolutely against our tradition in "honoring our death".


 

Cherine thank you very much for sharing!


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## maxiogee

cherine said:
			
		

> you can tell for yourselves that we can't have here because it goes absolutely against our tradition in "honoring our death".



We do not honour the death, we celebrate the life of the departed.


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## Chaska Ñawi

In my village in Bolivia, every occasion was marked by the consumption of copious amounts of alcohol.  Usually it was chicha, a beer made from a corn base.  

There is, of course, a funeral when somebody dies, but the really big day is Todos Santos, All Souls Day on November 1st.  Every family who's lost a member during the preceeding year holds a big party to welcome the dear departed back for a visit, and the festivities go on for about four days.  On November 1st itself (this happens in many other Latin American countries, most notably Mexico), the families go to the cemetary to clean and decorate the graves and niches and have a nice visit with the deceased, catching them up on all the family gossip from the past year.

At night, you go round to all the parties the bereaved are throwing.  The main room in the house has a big table with one end against the wall, and is literally covered in plates of cakes and breads.  The breads are all baked in different shapes:  llamas, birds, people, cats, donkeys, etc.  A big bread doll, representing the deceased, sits at the head of the table.  All the plates of food are decorated with little plastic flags in blue, purple and black; and big garlands of the same colour flank the table.  There are also lots of bare branches stuck into pots and decorated by tying cigarettes to them. Finally, and most importantly as far as the guests are concerned, there are also numerous leaky plastic jugs of chicha and a kind of brandy.

The routine is this.  You recite prayers to expedite the deceased's departure from Purgatory.  You then have a mug of chicha (this is how I picked up typhoid), pouring a little on the earthen or flagstone floor before drinking to honour the Earth Mother.  You then repeat the procedure.  Presently, you go on to the next house on the circuit and repeat the procedure there.

After a few hours the whole population in the village is laughing or crying (or both) hysterically, brawling vigorously, passed out on the cobblestones, or back home having some quick nookie (most Bolivian campesino babies are still conceived during fiestas).  Even the children are drunk.

The whole thing is really quite unforgettable.

Edit:  This is really in response to Coppergirl's first question, "I was wondering what funeral customs are like around the world", and not to her last question asking about open versus closed caskets.  I can return and delete this post altogether if she wishes the topic to remain viewing the deceased.


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## cherine

Thank you Eloisa.



			
				maxiogee said:
			
		

> We do not honour the death, we celebrate the life of the departed.


Ooops. Sorry, I didn't mean we honour the death (I personally don't see what's to be honoured in it) I meant : we honor the "dead".  
As I said at the begining of my previous post : honoring the dead is burying them (as quickly as possible).



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> _Edit_: Unsurprisingly, of course, since we are close cousins underneath it all, our practice sounds more similar to the Islamic/Egyptian tradition described by Cherine than the typical American big casket, loads of flowers, etc. funeral.


Yes, Elaine, I noticed the resemblances too  I was a little bit amazed, but not very astonished because I know that Islamic and Jewish traditions have a lot in common.
Amazingly though, this cloth rending custom is sometimes still done by some people (specially in rural areas and the south), but religiously speaking (in Islam I mean) it's "haram" (i.e. religiously unlawful).

Also, I forgot to say that we don't bury our deceased in caskets, which are only used to "transport" the body from the house/hospital/morgue... to the grave. Bodies are wrapped with cloth (a bit like a mummy), and are burried in their shroud, not the casket.


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## danielfranco

I have just realized what a sheltered and disconnected existence I have lived... 
I cannot remember attending but only two funerals in my whole life! Both my paternal grandma and grandpa, when their time came, died at their home and had their closed-casket wakes in a funeral parlor, where the family received the mourners for a day (I think it was only one day... I can't remember). Either the same day or the day after they were laid to rest on a ground grave. I cannot remember much in the way of what is suppossed to be traditional or not, because my grandparents were both protestant, and in Mexico evangelical protestants don't seem to have many rituals or customs when it comes to the actual death... Or at least that's how I perceived it as a child back in Mexico.


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## lizzeymac

Can anyone tell us a bit about the actual burial & gravesite traditions?  

Do you have a burial in the earth with a headstone or above ground in a crypt or cremation?

Who attends the burial ceremony - only family or everyone?

How often do people visit the burial sites?  

A question about a jewish burial:
I recently attended a ceremony with my friend for installing the headstone at for her grandfather's grave.  I believe it was one year after the burial?  The family members each placed a small pebble on the headstone, I didn't want to bother anyone at the time but I wondered why.


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## coconutpalm

You all described  burials in your country in great detail! Well, I 'd like to talk more about the burial of my grandpa.
My grandpa died of disease, so we were well prepared. The day he died, friends, relatives and his family members were summoned to attend the burial.
Family members, that is, wife(my grandma),sons and daughters, grandsons and granddaughters, daughters-in-law and sons-in-law were required to wear special clothes and scarves made of linen. And some close relatives also this kind of clothes and scarves, but they were shorter than ours.
We set up a mourning hall. The casket lay there, and the family members and close relatives stayed there. Whenever someone came in to pay respect to the body, he/she knelt down to make kowtows and we knelt down to show oour gratitude. And after more or less 3 days, Taoist priests or monks, or in some cases, both Taoist priests and monks  prayed.
At last, all the family members, relatives and friends that came to help lined out to say farewell to the soul of my grandpa. We went all around the village (in the urban areas, around the residence district).
This ceremony often lasts for 7 days nowadays. In the old days, it could last as long as 49 days. And some families today shorten it due to various reasons, for example, some family member has to go back to work, or it's too hot, or some important family member is against superstitious practice.
The day of burial was rather simple to the preceding ceremonines. Having buried the body, we went back to have a dinner, or banquet. The dinner resembled the wedding meal, except that the decorations were black and white.
To lizzey: We have a grand gravestone on the earth.
We visit the burial sites on the last day of a year and Qinnming Day, both according to the luna calendar. 
All I have said is my personal experience. As you know, China is a big country, the traditions vary from place to place, and from urban to rural.


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## coppergirl

Chaska Ñawi said:
			
		

> Edit: This is really in response to Coppergirl's first question, "I was wondering what funeral customs are like around the world", and not to her last question asking about open versus closed caskets. I can return and delete this post altogether if she wishes the topic to remain viewing the deceased.


 

Thanks, Chaska, for your post!

No---no need to keep the topic too closed or specific---whatever people are happy to share is fine with me! Very interesting customs--- it rather beats the stuff we do in my family.


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## coppergirl

*coconutpalm* wrote:

 "The casket lay there, and the family members and close relatives stayed there. Whenever someone came in to pay respect to the body, he/she knelt down to make kowtows and we knelt down to show oour gratitude." 

HI coconutpalm! 

I was curious--- do the modern Chinese still 拜 祖 先? I mean, I have heard that this still goes on in places, but I do not know whether it is something which the Chinese still do? (For everyone who is not into Mandarin, the term is "bai zuxian" which means sort of say respectful prayers to the ancestors, usually in a small family shrine.) I am not a native Chinese and my Mandarin is also rusty, so please correct any characters or misspellings!


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## ElaineG

> I recently attended a ceremony with my friend for installing the headstone at for her grandfather's grave. I believe it was one year after the burial? The family members each placed a small pebble on the headstone, I didn't want to bother anyone at the time but I wondered why.


 
I have never found a good explanation for why we do this. Some people say it harks back to the ancient days when graves were marked with a heap of stones. More concretely, because flowers were not traditionally used (although they have become more common, and there is no prohibition that I know of on bringing flowers to a grave, and in fact in Israel it seems pretty popular), it was a way of showing your respect that you had visited without leaving flowers.



> Do you have a burial in the earth with a headstone or above ground in a crypt or cremation? You are supposed to be buried directly in the earth. Like the custom that you are buried in a plain white shroud in a plain wood box, this is intended to insure that nothing interferes with the intended decomposition of the body. The body is supposed to return to nature, while the soul rises to God. There is a tombstone, and generally speaking, there is a ceremony when the tombstone is unveiled (usually a few months after the death).
> 
> Who attends the burial ceremony - only family or everyone? Pretty much everyone, these days. A rabbi conducts a short graveside ceremony. Mourner's prayers (Kaddish) are led traditionally by the son of the deceased, although my practice doesn't distinguish between sons and daughters.
> How often do people visit the burial sites? That's a matter of family custom. Some people say you are supposed to go as soon as Shiva is over, others don't do that. Every year on the anniversary of the death (Yahrzeit), a candle is lit by family members that is supposed to burn all day in memory of the dead person. I find that a nice day, if possible, to visit my grandparents. But that's just me.


 
_Edit:  Sorry, this all relates to Jewish tradition.  I thought I said that somewhere but I didn't.  _


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## Oche Gruso

I have a sincere question (Although you will probably laugh). I have always heard that Irish funerals make for a swining time. i.e, Pleanty of drinking, less crying and more re-telling good times with the deceased. Is this true or is this just another tradition that Americans screwed up (like St. Patrick's Day)?
     My family is warped as far as funerals go.  We have the opened-casket wake, however instead of being buried we are cremated, and the eldest child of the deceased is the one to press the incinerator's button.


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## maxiogee

A good Irish funeral will have a bit of life to it! (Sorry about that! )
There will be stories told of the dead person - usually aimed at getting a smile out of the mourners, and in families which are accustomed to singing, someone may sing a song the deceased was fond of.
These things are done to assure the family that the non-family who are there shared their opinions of the deceased, and may even have known aspects of them which the family did not. I learned a few things when my Dad died. 
As I said earlier, an Irish funeral is about celebrating the life of the deceased.
Let us not forget that funeral rituals are rarely about the deceased, they are about consoling the bereaved.


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## coconutpalm

coppergirl said:
			
		

> I was curious--- do the modern Chinese still 拜 祖 先? I mean, I have heard that this still goes on in places, but I do not know whether it is something which the Chinese still do? (For everyone who is not into Mandarin, the term is "bai zuxian" which means sort of say respectful prayers to the ancestors, usually in a small family shrine.) I am not a native Chinese and my Mandarin is also rusty, so please correct any characters or misspellings!


To make sure my answer is well-grounded, I asked all my dormmates, that is, five of them, from all over the country, rural and urban. Our answers are all "Yes", but not as formal or important as in the old times, though. 
Your Mandarin is perfect! We 祭拜祖先，祭祖，祭奠祖先，etc.


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## coppergirl

Another thing I remember about the open casket wakes in our family was that the Protestant half of the family didn't actually pray by the casket, whereas the Catholic half knelt down and said prayers by the deceased.  I remarked on this to my mother, who pointed out that it was not tradition on the Anglican side of the family to actually pray by the body and that it was a Catholic thing to do.  I remember being surprised because none of the dead man's siblings prayed by his casket.

Actually, reading Maxiogee's post about Irish funerals, our family funerals were sombre, but the wakes were fairly noisy since people met who had not met each other in years.  Every now and then the family elders would tell us to hush and keep it down, since there might be others in the funeral home having their own wakes and we should not get too loud.  

At the funeral supper in the restaurant afterwards, we tended to have a separate room set off for anyone who felt they might cry or want to have some private time to collect themselves.  However, most of the time at the funeral supper was like the wake---fairly noisy, with people saying lots of nice stuff about the deceased and often telling jokes and things.  

I add this only because actually---unlike Maxiogee---I am not Irish ethnically but half Polish and the other half is sort of a mix of German and English.  I wonder if this is a general American thing, or a Catholic thing, or just our family?


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## geve

I don't have an answer for the open casket actually... It made me realize that the first funeral I attended, at the beginning of the 90's, there was indeed an open casket wake right before the funeral... but for all the other funerals that I have attended more recently in the past 3 years, there has never been an open casket. The undertaker might have mentioned it, though. 

In France, by law the burial must take place within a week after the death. Everyone attends the funeral. The burial is usually in the earth with a headstone, but cremation is also possible.
There isn't much of a "party" afterwards. There is usually a small buffet(organized by the close relatives) and people will discuss softly. Of course this might depend on the religious and cultural background of the decease.
As for how often people visit the burial site, it really depends... if they live close to it, how religious or traditional they are, what the family habits are... All in all, generally not very often I would say; All Saints' Day being the one day that people will visit if they only visit once.


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## maxiogee

Headstones are not usually erected in Ireland until a year after the interment. This is to allow the ground time to settle. This means that headstones tend to stay vertical, as they were intended, and not go lop-sided due to subsidence. There is no rule about this, as far as I know, just custom.


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## Chaska Ñawi

Last week one of our students died of cancer, so we've been dealing with a lot of questions from her schoolmates.  Since her departure coincided with the Vatican's decree that Purgatory's apparently removed from their evolutionary scale, I've been thinking on traditions associated with death.

Here we have open caskets, closed caskets, wakes, cremations, pet cemeteries, scattering of ashes over favourite places, sending ashes up in fireworks or shooting them in shotgun cartridges, all sorts of flavours of send-off.  The funeral services have become as individual as the person who has died.  Personally I like the Quaker memorial Meeting, where there is no service but where people rise and speak as they are led.  However, the last funeral I attended had a smarmy minister with a lot of platitudes who had never met the dead person, and the grave was carefully surrounded by astroturf so as to avoid any glimpse of bare earth.  If I had to pick one word most generally associated with death in Canada, I'd choose the word "euphemism"

In what ways does your culture deal with death?

Edit:  If I'd read all the way through the "Open Casket Wakes" thread, I'd have realised that it was about more than just open versus closed caskets.  Sorry, folks ... the two threads are now merged.


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## alexacohen

Hello:
In rural communities usually the casket is delivered to the deceased house and left in a room (emptied of all furniture except chairs), so friends and neighbours can sit and speak to the family. The casket may be open or closed: if the person died peacefully, it's usually left open, but if the person died in a car crash, for instance, the case will be closed.
In cities this is not possible; many hospitals have their own, I don't know if this is correct, funereal rooms? where the people who have died at the hospital are taken.
There are also crematories, as scattering the ashes is becoming quite common.
And there is also, of course, the possibility of leaving your body to the University so medical students can practice with it.
There are not many cemeteries for pets. Either you bury them yourself if you live in the country, or you take them to the vet to be cremated.
Alexa


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## Joca

I think funerals are much the same in Brazil as they appear to be in Spain. I would mention the widespread use of flowers and banners in the deathwatch room, or whatever you call it in English. I have read that in some countries people eat at funerals, but this would never happen here. Often people say a prayer as the casket is closed. As this is mainly a Catholic country, cremation is not much used here yet. Besides, it is a lot more expensive for most people. 

Usually men carry the coffin to the grave. I have never seen women doing that.

In general, I think death is viewed with despair, especially if the dead is a young person or they had a sudden or tragical death. On the other hand, the wake and the burial are so to say done away with a lot more quickly nowadays than in the past, as if one couldn't afford to waste time.


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## tvdxer

I had to face the completely unexpected death of my father last October, so I've learned a lot about this sort of thing, even if I rather would have not wanted to.

Immediately after his death (my mother woke that morning to find him cold and not breathing), we called the ambulance, who transported him to (I'm not sure) a funeral home or to be examined (when somebody dies this young, they are automatically chosen to be autopsied).  Being a Catholic family, we had my dad's funeral at a mass the Friday of the week of his death (he died in his sleep in the early AM hours Sunday), strangely enough following a wake (I think) earlier that morning.  After the mass, there was a reception, with food and lots of conversation, fairly upbeat considering the circumstances.  After that, he was transported in a hearst to be buried.  That ended the official ceremonies.

I think death is something Americans simply don't want to think about.  We don't even like to consider old age.  I suppose if the person who dies is 85 or 90, it's really not that sad, considering they've led a long, probably rich life, are now likely old and somewhat disabled, and ready to pass into the next life.  When the person who dies is my father's age, and leaves a grieving mother with three children and a business to run, there are a lot of questions, and it is not accepted so easily.  It's probably even harder when it's a young person who dies.

For non-Catholics, services are generally less formal and (in my opinion) sometimes rather irreverent.  A few months before my father's death, my aunt's mother died, was cremated, and for her funeral (more of a memorial service, held at a funeral home) we downloaded her favorite rock songs off iTunes.


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## alexacohen

Dear Joca:
I forgot to mention the flowers and the banners... they are common here too.
And yes, the coffin is always carried by four men. And burials are very expensive, too. Many people have a "burial saving account". 
Alexa


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## Chaska Ñawi

tvdxer said:


> I had to face the completely unexpected death of my father last October, so I've learned a lot about this sort of thing, even if I rather would have not wanted to.



I am so sorry about your father.

The reception is pretty much a given here, no matter what happens at the funeral itself.  Sometimes it's potluck, but usually it's catered through the funeral home.  The Quakers aren't much given to wakes, but tend to eat together through thick and thin.  When there's a wedding .... we eat.  After Meeting .... we eat.  During a crisis .... we definitely eat.

Re your iPod comment - it's become much more common to play music that was meaningful to the dead person than to sing traditional hymns like "Abide With Me".  In one beautiful funeral, our neighbour's granddaughter went to the piano and played all the old hymns that her grandmother had loved, teaching the congretation to sing every one of them.


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## panjabigator

Cremation is the most popular option for Indians (excluding Parsi, Christian, and Muslim communities).  The deceased are cremated and their ashes are dispersed in a holy location (the Ganges for Hindus and the Sikh location escapes me right now).  
You do not eat at these occasions and it is the eldest male son's job to oversee everything, traditionally including the lighting of the funeral pyre.  I cannot imagine how difficult of a task this must be.  The garb worn is white, in direct contrast with that of the west.  If the wife is widowed, she breaks all of her bangles and ceases to wear vermilion in her hair.  She typically wears white for the rest of her life and is not as socially active.  In the past, the practice of Sati was not uncommon (from what I gathered) where the wife would throw herself on the funeral pyre with her deceased husband.  This last point, thankfully, is no longer the case.

I have had the fortune of never having to go a funeral of a loved one.  I went to a Hindu funeral once of a good friend whose grandmother passed, and they had an open casket service.  They then afterwards removed the casket and took the body to be cremated in a crematorium.  

I don't really know how death is dealt with afterwards.  Some draw strength from loved ones and relatives, who will stick by you to make sure you are taken care of and well tended too in the initial months.  Others incorporate religion as their panacea.  I have no clue how to make sense of either or;  I think these last two options are quite universal to society in general.  Something has to form the crutch to help you out, right?


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## alexacohen

panjabigator said:


> I don't really know how death is dealt with afterwards. Some draw strength from loved ones and relatives, who will stick by you to make sure you are taken care of and well tended too in the initial months. Others incorporate religion as their panacea. I have no clue how to make sense of either or; I think these last two options are quite universal to society in general. Something has to form the crutch to help you out, right?


Right. 
But death takes you always unawares, and is always senseless. No matter how many deaths of your friends and your kin you have survived. The pain and the loneliness are as new, and as raw, as the first time.
Alexa


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## Chaska Ñawi

Re my opening post:  I mixed up purgatory and limbo.  Limbo has been banished, but the concept of purgatory remains.

Here you can read the article.

I'm sorry that I didn't check my sources before posting!


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## Chaska Ñawi

Embarassed Moderator Note:  I'd forgotten that there was an existing thread on this topic.  These two threads have now been merged.


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## katie_here

Whenever I see a programme/film set in America and there is a funeral, the family are always sitting on chairs around the grave side. Why is this? 

Do they hold the service there? Do they hold services in church beforehand? 

In England I've never ever seen chairs by a grave side and just wondered what it is all about.

Thanks.


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## cuchuflete

Hello Katie_here,

It is all part of a great conspiracy (after all, what isn't these days?) to persuade foreigners that Americans will take any excuse at all to sit their portly rears on a chair.

I have been to many funerals in the U.S., and have never seen a single chair at a cemetery grave site.  That's not to say that such things don't exist; in a country this large, there is room for all sorts of customs.  I've been to burials in California and N.Y. and the New England states, and have yet to see a chair.

Services are held where a family wants them held.  This may include churces, cemeteries, funeral homes, or other spots.


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## palomnik

Personally, in all my life in the States I've never been to a funeral where there were chairs at graveside.  Of course, if there is a ceremony at the cemetery I suppose it would be acceptable, and if it's a funeral for a major personage there probably would be seating there.


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## katie_here

Thankyou for those replies.  

The film I've seen it in that prompted the question is "Sleepless in Seattle" where in the opening scene, there is a man and child at one side of the grave and a whole load of seated people at the other. 

It must be a conspiracy, because I can't think of any funeral I've seen in an American film/programme where they didn't have chairs around the graveside. 

ps. is Graveside one word or two?


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## avok

I have seen those chairs too (in the movies of course  ) My interpretation is that they are for the elderly people as they are so sad that they can barely stand.


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## timpeac

Subdiscussion on the spelling of "graveside" moved here

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=992674

Please keep this one on the subject in post 1.

Thanks

timpeac (moderator)


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## EmilyD

Once after a Mass (Roman Catholic), I went to a graveside service, and there were some chairs, which I think, were mostly used by the most elder mourners.  The priest may have led another prayer ( I don't recall) and then the burial was done...

This was in Rhode Island.

~~Nomi


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## JamesM

I have been to several interments here in California.  They are usually separate from, and in addition to, a church or chapel service.  At some of these graveside services there have been folding chairs available for the immediate family and the elderly.  Most people stood.

I can't think of a situation personally where there was a graveside service only, although I know that is an option.  I am only sharing personal experience.


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## gurseal

The 5 funerals I have attended in the last 5 years included two or three handfuls of chairs provided by the funeral homes that handled the church service and burial.  The chairs were for close, elderly and/or female relatives who wanted or needed to sit.  No services were held at the burial site. They were held at a church.

The young, the younger adults, and the healthy men KNOW not to sit if there are elderly friends or mothers with infants present. These people take their places behind the chairs rather than on them.

Maybe the chairs are an additional, gratis service that the funeral home offers to improve or solidify its reputation with other families in future need of a funeral home.  I've even known funeral homes to have umbrellas ready during overcast days.


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## anothersmith

I have been to a few funerals in which there were chairs set up by the gravesite.  

I think it might be more common in Jewish tradition, in which a certain prayer (I believe it's called the Kadish) is said at the graveside.  Also, at each Jewish funeral I have attended there has been a mound of dirt and a shovel next to the grave.  After the coffin is lowered into the grave, people line up to scoop some of the dirt onto the top of the coffin.  I've been told that this tradition signifies the last thing one can do for the deceased without asking for something in return (i.e., the last unselfish act you can perform for the deceased).


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## BAS24

In my part of the country, funerals will occur in the chapel of the funeral home or a church. Everyone is seated and it is more of a formal service. Then everyone goes to the graveside by way of funeral procession. It is still common practice for traffic going in the opposite direction to stop and put on their hazard lights to show respect. Once at the graveside, there are usually five or six chairs for the family or very frail. Everyone else is expected to stand. The chairs are almost always present, but people don't always use them. I've never seen a graveside where everyone is seated. The grave-diggers usually wait until after the family leaves before lowering the casket into the grave...though not always.


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## mgarizona

Consider too that the filmmakers may have wanted to seat certain mourners and leave others standing so as to provide a visual differentiation between the two groups. Likely we're intended to concentrate on one group and the rest are just there to 'dress the set.'


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## bb008

Hola 

En Venezuela hay un dicho que dice "el muerto al hoyo y el vivo al bollo", así que los funerales aquí son de lo más normalitos...Se muere alguien lo llevan a una funeraria lo velan una noche y lo entierran al día siguiente. 

Hubo una época y sobre todo cuando no existían las funerarias que las personas velaban el muerto en su casa, eso se estilaba mucho, a veces por que en el sitio donde estabas no había funeraria o simplemente no lo podías pagar, entonces las personas compraban o mandaban hacer un ataud, a velar el muerto y punto.

Ahora hay incluso cementerios que tiene de una vez una sala velatoria, para que lo lleves directo y el traslado para enterrar se hace más fácil, por que las funerarias en Venezuela son locales, con capillitas donde colocan el ataud (eso también depende de la religión, muchas tiene depende del difunto o de que religión era el difunto y los familiares que imagino acondicionan un lugar, pero no voy ahondar en eso, no quiero ofender a nadie) y debes trasladarlo de la funeraria al cementerio y eso por supuesto puede incrementar los costo, yo pienso más en la facilidad del entierro, que el precio, por que en serio ya casi morirse es un lujo. También en los mismos cementerios están los crematorios, y los nichos que son los que están dentro de una pared, que en vez del suelo están dentro de paredes, creo que esto es mundial.


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## Adolfo Afogutu

I would like to ask something about funerals in America that has always caught my attention. How common is to host a gathering after the funeral? I mean eating and drinking at the family’s home of the deceased. I can’t remember now any film in particular, but I’ve seen this scene so many times… As far as I know this is not usual in my country, but I guess it’s something good and very helpful for the family.

A.A.


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## BAS24

Where I live the person's church prepares food for the family to have during the visitation/viewing of the body and then again at the home of the family.  Many times the family members have traveled great distances to be there and so they have a gathering to eat, visit, and remember the deceased. Typically the ones who attend the gathering are family or close friends of the family as well as church leaders (ministers, elders, etc.). This custom has been very helpful to me during times of loss.


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## anothersmith

Adolfo Afogutu said:


> I would like to ask something about funerals in America that has always caught my attention. How common is to host a gathering after the funeral? I mean eating and drinking at the family’s home of the deceased. I can’t remember now any film in particular, but I’ve seen this scene so many times… As far as I know this is not usual in my country, but I guess it’s something good and very helpful for the family.
> 
> A.A.



This is very common, in my experience.  Usually it's at the home of the deceased or the home of a close relative.


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## JamesM

Yes, and the food is often provided by friends of the family or church members.  The family has enough to deal with.


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## katie_here

We tend to have our "wakes" in a pub, sometimes you pay the pub to provide a buffet, sometimes you make your own.


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## Mate

*Moderator note:*

This thread has been merged with an older one.

New thread title: *Funeral customs.*


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## jinti

Adolfo Afogutu said:


> How common is to host a gathering after the funeral? I mean eating and drinking at the family’s home of the deceased.


Such gatherings are very common in the US, in my experience.  They're usually either catered or potluck (or a combination), and having lots of leftovers means that the family of the deceased doesn't have to worry about cooking for awhile.  (Close friends will probably also continue to bring food for a few weeks.) Sometimes people bring food to these gatherings in disposable containers to make it easy to clean up, but I was taught to bring it in nice dishes with my name on them as a way of keeping in contact -- they have to return the dishes later on (or you can go pick them up), and that's another opportunity to check on how they're doing, chat, figure out what else you can do for them....  

After my grandfather's service, we had a luncheon.  We set up posterboards with photos from all different times in his life, and people sat around and reminisced, told stories about him, sang one of his favorite (rather bawdy ) songs, laughed and actually had a pretty good time, given the circumstances.  It was really nice to see all the people there, and to hear all those stories about things I didn't even know he'd done....


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## Mahaodeh

cherine said:


> I'm not Christian, so I'll speak of the muslim tradition (in Egypt, I don't about the other countries) just in case anyone would be interested in knowing.
> 
> First, we have a proverb (maybe from a religious origin, but I'm not 100% sure) that says : (Ikraam el-mayyet dafno) which means : honoring a dead person is by burrying him/her. Thus when a person dies, the family rushes to finish the paper work (?) -that is the burrial permission- as quickly as possible, so they can honor their beloved one.
> Before the burrial, the corpse is taken to a mosque, people make a certain prayer (called salaat al-janaza "the funeral prayer"), than take the person to his/her grave (sorry, I can't remember any of the literary expressions about this subject).
> After the burrial, there's a sort of "condolence ceremony" (couldn't find a better translation  ) where people go offer their condolencens/ sympathies to the family.
> 
> As you see, this is very different from the Western costum of the wake, which by the way I first learned about in Camus' _L'Etranger_, and of course you can tell for yourselves that we can't have here because it goes absolutely against our tradition in "honoring our death".


 
Just to give another example from Iraq, when my grandfather died (I remember all the details because at the time we were living with him), he died around 11.30 a.m.; he was washed, taken to the mosque for "the funeral prayer" and buried by 4.00 p.m. the same day.

An open casket is out of the question, we don't even use caskets as the dead are supposed to be buried in the ground directly so we use a box just to transport the deceased to the cemetery, some people don't even use a box, the deceased is placed on a board for transportation (if any of you had seen the funeral of King Fahad of Saudi Arabic on TV, they put him on ordinary plank of wood). They are not supposed to wear anything, the clothes are removed and the deceased is washed then covered with a big white sheet (called a kafan) which covers him/her from head to toe and binded firmly on the body (using string or strips of cloth, no sewing).

In the cemetery, after the deceased is buried Quran is recited and a few words are mentioned to remind the dead of his religion (according to Islamic beliefs) then everyone goes home. Only men attend the burial, women can visit later but women can go to the mosque for the funeral prayer.

After that, there were three days of "condolences", where the house was full of people offering condolences and brining food, usually cooked because the idea is that the family is too sad to cook or eat so friends should help them by brining cooked food so they can eat.

That's about it; it does indeed sound very similar to the Jewish tradition.


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## katie_here

I'm interested in the concept of burying a deceased person on the same day. 

Sometimes here in the UK, and no doubt, lots of other countries too, if a person dies in suspicious circumstances there is an inquest, where an autopsy may be performed and an investigation into the details surrounding the death.  Only when the coroner is satisified with the results can the burial take place.  

What happens in these circumstances in countries where the burial has to take place on the day of death?


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## Porteño

In the UK, providing the deceased died a natural and timely death, the funeral always seems to be a rather festive occasion where members of the family get together and, either before or after the funeral, indulge in plenty of chatting, eating and drinking. The wake seems to have virtually disappeared and the deceased is rarely, if ever, on view. On death, the deceased is moved to a funeral home, refrigerated and kept until the appointed day, which depends on how the family arranges it and sometimes on how far people may have to travel. For example, my mother died on a Tuesday and since I had to travel to the UK from Argentina, the funeral was arranged for the following Monday. A funeral is, like a wedding, often the only time when a family gets together, at least in my experience and if, as I mentioned at the outset, the death was natural and timely, the occasion is somewhat joyous. We also generally consider, or at least hope, that the person has gone to a better place so there's a good reason to be happy for them.


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## sokol

Wakes with an open casket were quite normal in former times, especially in rural communities - traditionally there was a three-day-wake, and the body not only was not covered but even laid out at home (!) which nowadays is not done any more (and I think even forbidden, for hygienic reasons).

But when I was young this still was done, in the late 1970ies when I was a child:
- three nights after the death people (acquaintancies, neighbours, friends) met at the home of the deceased and did pray for about an hour; afterwards there was some talk and some schnapps, for probably an hour or two
- the deceased was laid out somewhere convenient, but not in the room where the wake was held
- after three nights' wake the funeral took place; and afterwards there was the 'after-funeral-meal' for which we have an intranslatable name ('Zehrung' in my dialect) in some inn; there you ate a meal and stayed there for about a couple of hours approximately

Today the three-nights-wakes (for Catholics; I don't know what it's like with other religions or atheist funerals as I never have been there) are held in the church, the body is laid out in a room for this purpose at or close by the cemetery (or probably somewhere in the church), and the coffin may be open or closed - as you choose, more like closed in recent times I'd say. Funeral and 'after-funeral-meal' weren't changed much as far as I can tell.


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## katie_here

I know here in England, you can still have the "deceased" home before the funeral, but as to whether the casket is open or closed I've no idea.  I've never been to anyones home who has done this, although in recent years I've arranged two funerals and know it was an option.


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## Nanon

Same in France too. According to one's religion (if any), of course.
If the deceased is home, it is easier for relatives and friends who wish to spend a few minutes alone with him / her to do so.  
And the open casket is an option, depending on the condition of the body.

I remember that some months after my grandmother's funeral (she was a Roman Catholic, the viewing took place at home and the casket was open), we had a conversation in my family about being able to kiss the deceased goodbye, or not. Sorry if this sounds morbid but I think it's part of the topic.

My grandfather wanted to be buried in his garden. When he died, the family did not get a permit for that. For hygienic reasons, I assume.

I have been at non-religious funerals. Even if no reference is made to any actual religion, there is an intense concentration and a need to relate closely to the deceased that reminds of the etymological meaning of the word 'religion'. Tying links. 

Dying is expensive. Funeral expenses amount to several thousands Euro even for a "normal", no-frill funeral.


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## Porteño

katie_here said:


> I know here in England, you can still have the "deceased" home before the funeral, but as to whether the casket is open or closed I've no idea. I've never been to anyones home who has done this, although in recent years I've arranged two funerals and know it was an option.


 
That's a new one to me. I've never heard of anyone doing that. Certainly among all my family and friends, the funeral has been much as described in my earlier post.


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## katie_here

Porteño said:


> That's a new one to me. I've never heard of anyone doing that. Certainly among all my family and friends, the funeral has been much as described in my earlier post.


 
Here is a link that I've managed to find.  It may be interesting to you. 

http://www.richmond.gov.uk/home/com...out_a_burial_yourself/laying_out_the_body.htm


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## Porteño

katie_here said:


> Here is a link that I've managed to find. It may be interesting to you.
> 
> http://www.richmond.gov.uk/home/com...out_a_burial_yourself/laying_out_the_body.htm


 
Many thanks, it was most interesting.


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## Macunaíma

Funerals in Brazil usually take place between 24 to 36 hours after the death. The wake generally occurs at the house of dead person's family, unless the house is too small or they live in an apartment, and the casket remains open most of the times, except in cases where the body is injured due to a traumatic death or deformed/emaciated by a long illness. The house is cleared of most furniture to accommodate the mourners, and decorated with flowers. The family receives many flower wreaths with banners on which is written a message and the name of the family who sent it. Candles are also lit by the casket, generally two or four, and they burn throughout the wake until the casket is taken away --it's a catholic tradition, but actually even non-catholics light candles at wakes in Brazil. Most families will take religious icons to the room where the dead body is being mourned: images of the _Virgem Maria _and the Crucifix are the most commonly seen in such occasions. There usually isn't a lot of eating and drinking, but people are always served coffee, tea, water and light refreshments, often provided by the neighbours if the family doesn't have servants. The saddest time at a wake is when the casket is closed to be taken away from the family home to the church --it's when people realize that their loved one is going for good. As the casket is being closed, mourners sometimes sing farewell religious hymns. It's not uncommon for relatives and close friends to cry profusely at this moment. In small towns the casket is taken to the church in a kind of procession; young male members of the family and friends take turns carrying it. As the procession leaves the family's house, the church bells toll and shopkeepers shut their doors as it passes the street (it is considered a major insult to the family if a shopkeeper maintains the doors of his shop open as a funeral procession passes by). Once inside the church, the casket is opened once more for the last funerary rites (the Requiem Mass), which take but a few minutes. Then the procession proceeds to the cemetery where the corpse is buried. Wealthier families will bury their relatives in large marble tombs. Some of these tombs boast columns and sculptures; some are real chambers and look like chapels, stained-glass windows and all. But these are the more traditional cemeteries; nowadays you will find cemeteries which look like golf courses: vast lawns with graves marked by small horizontal gravestones. These cemeteries can be very beautiful, with large trees and shaded paths like parks. There usually isn't any gathering after the burial. Almost as important as the funeral itself, though, is what we call _Missa do Sétimo Dia_ (Seventh Day Mass), which is a Mass celebrated in memory of the deceased. This Mass is usually attended by all those who, for some reason, couldn't attend the funeral (which, as I mentioned earlier, usually happens within 36 hours after the death).


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## mirx

Macunaíma said:


> Funerals in Brazil usually take place between 24 to 36 hours after the death. The wake generally occurs at the house of dead person's family, unless the house is too small or they live in an apartment, and the casket remains open most of the times, except in cases where the body is injured due to a traumatic death or deformed/emaciated by a long illness. The house is cleared of most furniture to accommodate the mourners, and decorated with flowers. The family receives many flower wreaths with banners on which is written a message and the name of the family who sent it. Candles are also lit by the casket, generally two or four, and they burn throughout the wake until the casket is taken away --it's a catholic tradition, but actually even non-catholics light candles at wakes in Brazil. Most families will take religious icons to the room where the dead body is being mourned: images of the _Virgem Maria _and the Crucifix are the most commonly seen in such occasions. There usually isn't a lot of eating and drinking, but people are always served coffee, tea, water and light refreshments, often provided by the neighbours if the family doesn't have servants. The saddest time at a wake is when the casket is closed to be taken away from the family home to the church --it's when people realize that their loved one is going for good. As the casket is being closed, mourners sometimes sing farewell religious hymns. It's not uncommon for relatives and close friends to cry profusely at this moment. In small towns the casket is taken to the church in a kind of procession; young male members of the family and friends take turns carrying it. As the procession leaves the family's house, the church bells toll and shopkeepers shut their doors as it passes the street (it is considered a major insult to the family if a shopkeeper maintains the doors of his shop open as a funereal procession passes by). Once inside the church, the casket is opened once more for the last funerary rites (the Requiem Mass), which take but a few minutes. Then the procession proceeds to the cemetery where the corpse is buried. Wealthier families will bury their relatives in large marble tombs. Some of these tombs boast columns and sculptures; some are real chambers and look like chapels, stained-glass windows and all. But these are the more traditional cemeteries; nowadays you will find cemeteries which look like golf courses: vast lawns with graves marked by small horizontal gravestones. These cemeteries can be very beautiful, with large trees and shaded paths like parks. There usually isn't any gathering after the burial. Almost as important as the funeral itself, though, is what we call _Missa do Sétimo Dia_ (Seventh Day Mass), which is a Mass celebrated in memory of the deceased. This Mass is usually attended by all those who, for some reason, couldn't attend the funeral (which, as I mentioned earlier, usually happens within 36 hours after the death).


 

All of this is almost exactly my experience in México. Family members, specially women, will cry unconsolably. During the colony and postcolony, servants were asked to cry and I even heard of a group of women who were paid to go to funerals and cry, this usually had its climax during intervals everytime a prayer of the rosary was told.

A significant difference to the Brazilian custom is that in México most funerlas take place at a funeral parlor, coffee and hot drinks are always served as well as light refreshments. People are expectced to wear black but is usually only women who respect this tradition (this is fast fading away), and the widow, if not remarried, was expected to wear black for the rest of her life.

As far as I am concerned there are no gatherings after the burial, as the family wants to be alone and mourn their sorrows. However, there is a "novenario", this is a gathering everyday after the burial during nine days where family, close relatives, friends and neighbours will gather to pray the rosary, if the body was mourned in the decesaed´s home, 4 candles will be lit in the 4 corners that the casket previusoly occupied.

During the burial there are always prayers that are recited between sobs and weeping, women usually faint as they can't cope with the pain of losing a dear one. The actual burial occurs only after a part of the prayers is finished and the widow/widower or some senior famlily member grabs a handful of earth and scatters it around the casket, then family and friends will copy, this is a symbol of goodbye and resignation, after all the closest people have done this the diggers start shoveling earth on the casket.

Gravestones are not erected after a few months for the reasons exposed by maxiogee at the beginnig of this thread. And just as Macunaíma explained, there are some gravestones that look more like private churchs than thombs. Wealthier families usually buy a big plot in the cemetery and many generations of the family are buried there, these are usually mausoleum-like constructions, are locked and many have a small chapel.

After the burial, a black big bow is placed on top of the main entrance of the deceased's house and is usually kept there for over a year. People who lost a loved one are not expected to be seen in social activities for at least some months, if close relatives are seen in parties this is very harsly frowned upon; very commonly weddings or other big events are cancelled because of the death of a close relative.

In my state at least, in northern México, it is a legal requirement to carry out an autopsy in all dead people, unless they died in a hospital and the reasons of the death are already known. People are buried usually within 48 hours of their dead, some priests refuse to hold mass services for corpses after 4 days. 

And like some Americans described earlier in the thread, Mexican deads are also buried in their favourite clothes and with a dear personal belonging in their hands, the bodies are usually arranged by the funeral house who have people trained on putting make up on dead bodies.

Many families hold mass services every year (for many years) on the aniversary of the death. My mother's side of the family are very keen on these customs and my uncles and aunts take a plane every year from as far as California or Mexico City just to attend the mass service. 

These traditions vary from home to home and from rural areas to urban ones, the mourning-black-clothes tradition for instance, is imposible to keep for a person who works in a business where a uniform is required.

Also note that this is rather a semi-rural, northern Mexican, Catholic, upper-middle class tradition; I am sure there are major differences in different parts of the country and most notably amongst the different religions.

Saludos, and I'll come back tomorrow to tell you a bit about my Mennonite neighbours.


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## jinti

Among Quakers, at least in my neck of the woods (Pennsylvania and New York), memorial gatherings are the usual thing.

The gathering is similar to any Quaker meeting for worship, in that it begins in silence and people speak out of the silence if they are led to do so; it differs in that in addition to opening ourselves to the presence of God, we are remembering the life and service of the deceased.  People often share their memories -- everything from tender to downright funny. There is often a potluck afterwards either at the meetinghouse or at the family's house.

We do not wear mourning clothes.  Sometimes there are flowers, but we don't encourage large displays.  There are no candles and no religious symbols.  

The deceased is often cremated these days, but not always.  The remains are buried or else scattered in a meaningful place, sometimes privately and sometimes during the memorial gathering. In deference to simplicity and equality, we tend to use plain gravemarkers -- a flat stone that lies flush to the ground (you can't see them until you're nearly on top of them because they're below the level of the grass around them), with just the person's name and dates of birth - death.  (The old cemetery behind my meetinghouse has stones with just initials and no dates, but we're not _that_ plain anymore. )


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## katie_here

Thankyou everyone for your contributions. I've found it really fascinating. It has reminded me how funerals have changed over the years. 

As a child, every neighbour in the street would close their curtains on the day of the funeral until after the family returns home. Nowadays I think only the older generation bother with this. I'm always touched if I ever see a man stop and take his hat off as the funeral procession passes by, although that seems to be only the older generation. 

In the last three years I've arranged a funeral for my mother and my brother. In both instances, they were laid out in the Chapel of Rest, where an invitation was sent out to anyone who wanted to pay their last respects could. My mother had an open casket, my brother's was closed. 

The funeral service was held in our local Church of England Church, with prayers, hymns and songs particularly liked by my Mam and Brother. Later we had a short service in the crematorium, which is like a church but non-denominational and then a cremation. 

The family and guests had gathered at my home, where the courtege started out from, to church, cemetry and then to a pub run by my cousin. We had drinks, a buffet and then those that wanted to, came back to my house to continue being together and drinking/eating. My neighbours opened up their garden and home for my mother's (this was in August when the weather was really hot), and for my brother's we all stayed here in my home (that was in January). It seemed to be friends rather than aunties and uncles that wanted to stay afterwards, but surprisingly, we all had a good time at these gatherings, because it was a time to talk happily about the ones who had passed (and not about their actual dying), and for old friends to gather and catch up.


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## No_C_Nada

coconutpalm said:


> You all described  burials in your country in great detail! Well, I 'd like to talk more about the burial of my grandpa.
> And after more or less 3 days, Taoist priests or monks, or in some cases, both Taoist priests and monks  prayed.
> 
> The day of burial was rather simple to the preceding ceremonines. Having buried the body, we went back to have a dinner, or banquet. The dinner resembled the wedding meal, except that the decorations were black and white.



_That's very interesting.

Last year, I attended a wake service for a Chinese man, in San Francisco.

There were Chinese prayers and chanting by the monks (I'm not sure if they were Buddhists or Taoists) and lots of drumming.  Then, there were eulogies in both English and Chinese.

The following day, the deceased was buried.  In the evening, there was a dinner, or rather, a banquet at a Chinese restaurant. The difference between this banquet and a banquet for any other reason is that at this banquet, you must eat all the food at the restaurant, no left-over take-outs are permitted.

It's sort of honoring the departed with whatever food from this banquet that has not been consumed.


_


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## tmoore

avok said:


> I have seen those chairs too (in the movies of course  ) My interpretation is that they are for the elderly people as they are so sad that they can barely stand.


 

They generally are for the members of the family.Also in some places in the South the neighbors ,and members of the churh bring plates of food to the house of the deceased, for the family and friends to eat. Tables full of casseroles, vegetables, ham etc desserts.... Best food ever!


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## Julz

maxiogee said:


> A good Irish funeral will have a bit of life to it! (Sorry about that! )
> There will be stories told of the dead person - usually aimed at getting a smile out of the mourners, and in families which are accustomed to singing, someone may sing a song the deceased was fond of.
> These things are done to assure the family that the non-family who are there shared their opinions of the deceased, and may even have known aspects of them which the family did not. I learned a few things when my Dad died.
> As I said earlier, an Irish funeral is about celebrating the life of the deceased.
> Let us not forget that funeral rituals are rarely about the deceased, they are about consoling the bereaved.


With us it's funnily similar to the Irish it appears. First of all it's often a few days between death and service (I guess low decomposition rate in the cold climate). The funeral service is a celebration of the person's life and reflection of (usually) the happier memories, etc. In the case of my mum's funeral in 2006 her favorite songs were played, one to a montage of photos from young to old and showing off the 'big' events (like holiday snaps).

As for burial, it seems that is strictly for family members' attendance only.


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## Lingvisten

In Denmark the funeral traditions have change alot. 
In the "old days", if a person died, the table in the house of the deceased was covered with a white table cloth and the windows where blinded with curtains. The body was placed on the table, and the widow would watch over him for 3 nights (if no one had died, a white table cloth, left over night, would bring dead to the family). The body was protected by all sorts of "magical" practices, such as placing an open pair of scissors on the chest. after the 3 nights, the funeral took place. When the funeral was done, it was custom to hold "gravøl", litteraly grave-beer, that is drinking for the dead. 

Today there is no nightwatch by the body, and the casket is usualy closed, and placed in front of the alter during the funeral. When the funeral is done, the relatives carry the casket into the undertakers car,and it drives away. afterwards the relatives hold "gravøl", these days mostly coffee and cakes or sandwiches.


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## Lusitania

alexacohen said:


> Hello:
> In rural communities usually the casket is delivered to the deceased house and left in a room (emptied of all furniture except chairs), so friends and neighbours can sit and speak to the family. The casket may be open or closed: if the person died peacefully, it's usually left open, but if the person died in a car crash, for instance, the case will be closed.
> In cities this is not possible; many hospitals have their own, I don't know if this is correct, funereal rooms? where the people who have died at the hospital are taken.
> There are also crematories, as scattering the ashes is becoming quite common.
> And there is also, of course, the possibility of leaving your body to the University so medical students can practice with it.
> There are not many cemeteries for pets. Either you bury them yourself if you live in the country, or you take them to the vet to be cremated.
> Alexa


 

Very much like in Spain.
In the past and nowadays in some rural comunities the body is morned at home and afterwords in churches. Sometimes all night long, although many churches nowadays close the doors at night to avoid more stress for the family. 
Scattering ashes is not allowed yet. Very few people are cremated as it's still very expensive as there are very few requests and only in few cities this service is available.
It's not common to have catering as in the US, but some agencies are delivering this service.
Usually there are churches next to the cemetery for this purposes but still in rural communities it's natural that all the town follows the car from the church to the cemetery.


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## Grey Fox

Moderator note:  this post has been copied from the thread Velatorio  in the Spanish/English forum.

As with so many translation problems, there are often quite big cultural differences which mean that words carry very different connotations and one has to be very careful how they are used. 

The kind of "velatorio" I've become very accustomed to attending here in Argentina bears no similarity to the kind of "wake" one might attend in UK. For a start, the "velatorio" is before the funeral whereas a "wake", as pointed out by cirrus, is afterwards. All and sundry turn up to "pay their respects", both to the mourners and to the deceased - the coffin may be still open or already closed. It was the first time I had ever seen a dead body, and quite a shock! It's quite a social thing, a lot of "being seen" and "being seen to be doing the right thing" by attending, if only briefly to mumble something clumsily to the bereaved and sidle up to the coffin and bow one's head reverently. 

The family generally install themselves in a "family room" at the funeral parlour to be able to be on hand to receive all-comers and wait for the time appointed for the funeral - usually the day after the death, so the "velatorio" shares something of the old-fashioned "all-night vigil", but many here choose to close the doors overnight for security, as it's the done thing for all and sundry to call in "as a mark of respect", unless it's specifically publicised as "family and friends only" etc. 

The funeral parlour usually offers a very discreet and minimal refreshment service, tea/coffee/refilling thermoses with hot water for mate, etc. That is NOT what is meant  in English by "funeral services", which would be interpreted as the religious ceremony before committing the body to burial/cremation. 

A "wake", as cirrus says, is after the funeral, and usually for family and closest friends/colleagues, discreetly invited to "come along afterwards". This is generally only called a wake if it's the kind of gathering that turns into a prolonged drinking session, as cirrus says, and depending on the people involved! The awkward polite cup of tea and a sandwich would hardly be worthy of the term "wake", IMHO!

Sorry to go into so much detail, but some of the comments by Spanish-speakers above seem to be quite unaware that the English-speaking world is strongly influenced by protestant cultural traditions as opposed to the predominant Catholicism of the Spanish-speaking world. This means that not only the traditions and activities associated with these essentially religious ceremonies, but the words used to describe and refer to them, may differ greatly or take on different meanings, or simply not exist. That's of prime importance to us when translating, and so hard for one who has perhpas never experienced the word in its natural setting and everyday use, in the other country/culture.

I hope these comments and insights help anyone trying to make sense of this particular word. It's certainly not meant as a criticism of the comments that were a little wide of the mark, just sharing personal experience that might help shed light and enable others to at least get a feel of what it's about.


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## ahshav

cherine said:


> Also, I forgot to say that we don't bury our deceased in caskets, which are only used to "transport" the body from the house/hospital/morgue... to the grave. Bodies are wrapped with cloth (a bit like a mummy), and are burried in their shroud, not the casket.



That is similar to the practice in Israel, except that caskets are used very rarely. The only time I know caskets are always used is for soldiers.

Someone also asked about a Jewish custom installing the tombstone a year after burial and about placing small stones on the tombstone. Without too much delving into ritual, mourning periods (apart from the initial week - _shiva_) are either 30 days or a year. It is customary for the tombstone to be revealed at a graveside memorial at the end of such a period. The stones are placed out of respect, to show that someone has visited, and a sign of permanence (more here - http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Bereavement_in_Judaism&action=edit&section=19).


Regarding same day burial and cases that demand autopsies, investigations, etc. I can only comment on Israel (where burial is almost always same-day) - sometimes criminal investigations receive greater priority, and the funeral is delayed. This is not so rare, as funerals are not held on most Jewish holidays, and have to be delayed for such events, as well.


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## jinti

Grey Fox said:


> For a start, the "velatorio" is before the funeral ... All and sundry turn up to "pay their respects", both to the mourners and to the deceased - the coffin may be still open or already closed. ...It's quite a social thing, a lot of "being seen" and "being seen to be doing the right thing" by attending, if only briefly to mumble something clumsily to the bereaved and sidle up to the coffin and bow one's head reverently.
> 
> The family generally install themselves in a "family room" at the funeral parlour to be able to be on hand to receive all-comers and wait for the time appointed for the funeral ....


 Actually, Grey Fox's description of a _velatorio_ is precisely the usual wake in the US, too (my description above of Quaker funerals notwithstanding), and I was surprised to read that it is not done that way in the UK.  I guess there is no single standard for wakes in the English-speaking world.


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## vivita28

In Colombia, we use to say goodbye to our dear death people we call it 'velar' or the 'velación'or 'velorio' and we drink lots of coffee. This is  a day before the funeral, so people can say I'm sorry to closer relatives.


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## No_C_Nada

_What are the present customs for funerals in Greece?  How do they differ from ancient Greece customs?_
__


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## Encolpius

In Catholic Central Europe the customs seem to be similar. 
open-casket (more common in the country)
after the service meal, we call it _halotti tor_ in Hungarian.


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## acemach

Most Chinese-Malaysian funeral ceremonies differ greatly, but all are usually filled with prayers and many ceremonies. I am not sure if these are still practised in China, as some traditional Chinese rites and festivals here are no longer observed there.

The funeral is filled constantly with prayers and rituals lasting hours. Let me try super-summarising it.

The full funeral lasts 3, 5 or 7 days. 5 is I think the most common. Throughout these 5 days, the entire family of the deceased stay at the funeral parlour, home of the deceased, or wherever it's held, taking it in shifts to burn offerings or fold paper ingots without cease. During these 5 days visitors and friends will come to pay their respects by burning incense and praying before the body of the deceased, which is placed in the coffin with the top open. 

I had to be there at my grandmother's funeral 4 years ago and my uncle's 2 years later. Every day and night the priest would come to conduct rituals with varying degrees of complexity, often involving us making more offerings, burning more incense and so on. This would come down to a sort of climax on the last night, where there would be a kind of opera, with a full band playing traditional instruments. The priest sang hymns in Teochew, my ancestral dialect, which i was told detailed the spirit's journey into the afterworld. We would follow the priest's instructions and the 'opera' would last very late into the night. 

On the morning of the last day the casket would be nailed shut, more prayers then carried to the cemetery and all the relatives would accompany it, on foot in my case.

Throughout the funeral, there is a very strict taboo on the colour of clothing that can and cannot be worn. We had to wear only black and white for 5 days. The range of colours and taboo activities differs based on the degree of relation with the deceased, and according to generation as well. It is observed for a month after the burial as part of the mourning period. No weddings among the immediate family would be allowed for the next 2 years.

The one who takes the lead in the rituals is usually the eldest son of the deceased. Generally at a funeral the family in mourning is supposed to convey an air of 'untidiness' or an 'unkempt' appearance as a result of their grief.

If the deceased is more than 100 years old, mourning is FORBIDDEN. The relatives have to wear red (reserved for happy occasions) during the funeral and are forbidden to cry (i doubt anyone still follows that).

The coffin is put in a prominent place with a makeshift altar in front of it. We have to continuously burn a string of paper offerings in a box (5 days!!) to 'guide' its spirit on.

It differs according to family tradition and probably dialect groups, but not by much. All I can say is that it is a very long, complicated, costly, arcane, and rather exhausting process. But at the end it seemed like a fitting send-off to me. Truly something you have to be a part of to understand.

Ace


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## asm

I had an interesting conversation the other day about death. I was told that children are used to be buried in white coffins. The person who told me is from Spain but I think she also spoke from Mexico, where she resides now.
My question is related to a topic she said; she told me that among "deaths", the "worst" is the one form a child (much more sadness and pain). She told me that's the reason coffins for children are white.
I hadn't paid attention to this fact; probably because I have never attended a child's burial.
Is the use of white coffins a common custom? Is this only from some areas or across the globe? What's the meaning of the color, why white? (are they representing "angels", innocence, "purity"?

Thanks


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## Ivonne do Tango

No conozco mucho sobre funerales, sólo he estado en el de mi padre y en el de un desconocido.

Las tradiciones aquí en Argentina, al igual que en otros países, son muy variadas dependiendo del dinero y las creencias religiosas. Muchos prefieren la forma sencilla, supongo, sin mucha ceremonia, directo al cementerio y un breve encuentro entre familiares, si los hay.  Otros tantos prefieren la cremación y que sus cenizas sean esparcidas por alguna tierra, río o mar. 

Ayer falleció un ícono del arte lationamericano, Mercedes Sosa (cuyos restos serán esparcidos en Tucumán -tierra que la vio nacer- y en Mendoza -donde vivió con su primer marido, una tierra que la vio amar-).  Hubo una ceremonia que duró todo el día en el Congreso de la Nación, la gente iba a dedicarle su adiós.  A cajón abierto pasaron diferentes personalidades del arte, la política y la cultura en general a saludarla.  Suelen ser muy emotivos y a pesar de la gran producción que hay detrás, el acto suele ser simple y acogedor.

Cariños,

Ivonne


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## 涼宮

Since most Venezuelans are Catholic the tradition followed is similar to other Latin American countries. I've never been to a funeral but I'd take somebody's death with a different approach. I'm not the only who sees it like this and even my uncle would like the family to bid farewell to him in this way. I believe that when somebody dies people shouldn't cry or mourn that person in a funeral, they should throw a party, wear colorful clothes, play joyful music, laugh and bid farewell to that person with joy remembering them with great, funny and happy memories. No sad faces, no crying. And if the person wants to cry because they'll miss them they should do it alone at home for themselves. That'd be an awesome way to say goodbye to somebody . But this is probably something you don't find in most countries.


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## name my name

I do not know the tradition about other parts of China, but generally speaking in China most are the same.
I will speak for my village.
The funeral will usually last for three days. The first two days, the body of the departed will be put in the living room, and people from the whole village will come and say goodbye to the departed. Their relatives will cry over the coffin and tell about the old stories. And the two nights, the closest families will sit around and accompany the dead.
If the departed is a very old man or woman, people will celebrate it as if it is a blessing. Because in our tradition, people will live longer are blessed, so when they leave this world, most people should not be too sad about it. (I know this might be weird in western cultures). But the closest families might be sad and cry. The music and everything arranged should be in a happy mood anyway.
If the departed is a young man or woman, people should not do it as the above case. Everything will be in a dark mood as this person is not supposed to leave the world.
If the departed is a kid, there should not be a funeral at all. The kid will be buried right away far away from the living place. And other relatives are not allowed to visit this dead kid after his or her death. I myself do not even understand this one, but it seems to be mutually agreed without saying. 
During the three funeral days, neighbors or relatives will bring some gifts for the dead, namely money (of course fake one) and crackers to let the dead know"I am here to see you". We believe that the dead will live the same life like we do in real life. So they need money too. These money will be sent to the dead by being burnt. 
On the last day, the dead will be buried and people will go home. Before the dead is buried, the vehicle which carries the dead will circle around the village, and every one will be back at home to welcome the arrival of the dead. When the dead comes, neighbors will light some crackers to welcome the dead passing their home. And the relative will bow to the neighbors with the gifts to thank the neighbors for caring.
P.S. During the whole process, two types of people must be there: First, a shifu of taoism. He will do some ritual stuff by saying something to send the soul of the dead to heaven.
      Second, there would be two types of band, one with Chinese music instruments and other one with Western instruments. The "Chinese group" will play for the dead so that the dead would not feel alone. The "western group" will play for the living so that the living people will feel the dead is around and the music is usually to remind the goodness of the dead.

All in all, there are a lot of rituals in it........I even cannot explain with details. Will write more when I am free later.


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## Ёж!

涼宮 said:


> I believe that when somebody dies people shouldn't cry or mourn that person in a funeral, they should throw a party, wear colorful clothes, play joyful music, laugh and bid farewell to that person with joy remembering them with great, funny and happy memories. No sad faces, no crying. And if the person wants to cry because they'll miss them they should do it alone at home for themselves.


Maybe. But joy is not the best that is in the world, is it? Maybe this is why people don't laugh to death at funerals. They remember what is good.
(Just like the feeling of disaster is not the best thing, of course. In this I agree with you).


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## Kaxgufen

lizzeymac said:


> a bit about the actual burial & gravesite traditions *in Argentina*
> 
> Do you have a burial in the earth with a headstone or above ground in a crypt or cremation? *The three** are normal usages*
> 
> Who attends the burial ceremony - only family or everyone? *Everyone who wants, it's usually published in the local newspapers (or even broadcasted!)
> *
> How often do people visit the burial sites? *once a week? never? *


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## jugen

Querid@s forer@s, estoy escribiendo (en inglés) un diario ficticio en el cual los cadáveres de unas víctimas del hundimiento de un edificio en obras son velados por sus familiares en el Depósito judicial la noche siguiente al incidente y anterior a su entierro.  Esto tiene lugar en Madrid en 1930.  Mi pregunta: las cajas de las víctimas ¿estarían abiertas o cerradas en el velorio, tanto en el Depósito judicial como en el cortejo fúnebre público?  Es importante este detalle porque mi protagonista es judía y nosotros amortajamos al cadáver y cerramos la caja.

Otra preguntita:  ¿Dónde está la omega con los acentos y las tildes?


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