# Παρουσία in the Modern Greek



## Alexander2

Outside of the Bible, are there instances in the modern Greek language today where the word παρουσία is used with the meaning “coming”?

Or does it always mean “presence” and never “coming” in the modern language?


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## nickmenu

Alexander2 said:


> Outside of the Bible, are there instances in the modern Greek language today where the word παρουσία is used with the meaning “coming”?
> 
> Or does it always mean “presence” and never “coming” in the modern language?


Πривет Alexander!
"Παρουσία" literally means "presence" or "appearance" in English, which is as valid in the biblical context! For example, one can say "αυτός παρουσιάστηκε μπροστά μας" to mean "he appeared in front of us" or "he presented himself to us".  A Greek synonym on this use would be "εμφάνιση".
"Coming" meaning "Advent" is literally translated to "ερχομός" (or "έλευση" which is archaic but elegant and still in use).
Hope I 've helped.


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## Alexander2

Thank you. Would it be correct to say that in the modern language, the noun παρουσία is never used with the meaning “coming; arrival”? Has it lost this meaning in the modern everyday language?


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## sotos

In classical greek had the second meaning of "arrival" (Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott,  A Greek-English Lexicon, π , παροσφραίνω , παρουσ-ία), but in modern Greek doesn't. Of course, presense presupposes the arrival.


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## Alexander2

Thank you. I did not know that the word παρουσία is not used in the modern Greek language with the meaning “coming” in non-religious contexts.

The word appears in the writings of Flavius Josephus, who lived in the first century C.E.. Has the English translator rendered the word παρουσία in the following Greek text correctly as "coming"? Or should it be rendered as “presence”?

Flavius Josephus, _The Life,_ chapter 17, sections 87-91: “Ὁ δ᾿ Ἰωάννης ἀφικόμενος εἰς τὴν Τιβεριέων πόλιν ἔπειθε τοὺς ἀνθρώπους ἀποστάντας τῆς πρός με πίστεως προστίθεσθαι αὐτῷ. καὶ πολλοὶ τὴν παράκλησιν ἡδέως ἐδέξαντο, νεωτέρων ἐπιθυμοῦντες αἰεὶ πραγμάτων καὶ φύσει πρὸς μεταβολὰς ἐπιτηδείως ἔχοντες καὶ στάσεσι χαίροντες· μάλιστα δὲ Ἰοῦστος καὶ ὁ πατὴρ αὐτοῦ Πίστος ὡρμήκεσαν ἀποστάντες ἐμοῦ προσθέσθαι τῷ Ἰωάννῃ. διεκώλυσα δ᾿ αὐτοὺς φθάσας. ἧκεν γὰρ ἄγγελός μοι παρὰ Σίλα, ὃν ἐγὼ καθεστάκειν τῆς Τιβεριάδος στρατηγόν, ὡς προεῖπον, τὴν τῶν Τιβεριέων γνώμην ἀπαγγέλλων κἀμὲ σπεύδειν παρακαλῶν· βραδύναντος γὰρ ὑπὸ τὴν ἑτέρων ἐξουσίαν γενήσεσθαι τὴν πόλιν. ἐντυχὼν οὖν τοῖς γράμμασι τοῦ Σίλα καὶ διακοσίους ἀναλαβὼν ἄνδρας δι᾿ ὅλης τῆς νυκτὸς τὴν πορείαν ἐποιούμην, προπέμψας ἄγγελον τὸν τὴν ἐμὴν *παρουσίαν *τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα. πρωῒ δὲ πλησιάζοντος ἐμοῦ τῇ πόλει τὸ πλῆθος ὑπηντίαζεν καὶ Ἰωάννης σὺν αὐτοῖς· ὃς καὶ πάνυ με τεταραγμένως ἀσπασάμενος, δείσας μὴ εἰς ἔλεγχον αὐτοῦ τῆς πράξεως ἀφικομένης ἀπολέσθαι κινδυνεύσῃ, ὑπεχώρησε μετὰ σπουδῆς εἰς τὴν ἑαυτοῦ κατάλυσιν.”

Loeb Classical Library, H. Thackeray’s translation, volume 1: “On his arrival at Tiberias, John attempted to induce the inhabitants to abandon their allegiance to me and attach themselves to him; and there were many who, ever craving for revolution, by temperament addicted to change and delighting in sedition, gladly responded to his invitation. In particular Justus and his father Pistus were eager to desert me and go over to John. My speedy action, however, thwarted their plans. For a messenger reached me from Silas, whom, as I have already mentioned, I had appointed governor of Tiberias, bringing word of the intention of the citizens and exhorting me to make haste, since, if I delayed, the town would pass into the hands of others. Having read Silas’s dispatch I mustered two hundred men and marched all night long, sending a courier in advance to inform the people of Tiberias that I was *coming*. As I approached the city at dawn I was met by the population, including John, who saluted me in evident confusion and, fearing that the exposure of his proceedings would endanger his life, hastily retired to his lodging.”


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## sotos

"Coming" is more correct here. "Presence" would need a clarification, as for the place of presence.


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## Konstantinos

Επί παρουσία Νίκου θα αρχίσει η συζήτηση. Μην βιάζεσαι, σε 5 λεπτά έρχεται. 

After Nikos' coming, we'll start talking...

Αυτά είναι νέα Ελληνικά. Είμαι σωστός;


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## sotos

Konstantinos said:


> Επί παρουσία Νίκου θα αρχίσει η συζήτηση. Μην βιάζεσαι, σε 5 λεπτά έρχεται.
> 
> After Nikos' coming, we'll start talking...
> 
> Αυτά είναι νέα Ελληνικά. Είμαι σωστός;


Αυτό λέει "With Nikos presence (being present), the talk will start.". Of course we understand that he is coming.


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## Αγγελος

The two meanings are not really different. Even in Josephus’ example, he made known his planned presence, I.e. his imminent visit.
But it is definitely true that in modern Greek παρουσία only means ‘presence’, except in the set expression Δευτέρα Παρουσία, (Christ’s) second coming. Παίρνω παρουσίες = to take attendance.


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## Alexander2

Αγγελος said:


> The two meanings are not really different. Even in Josephus’ example, he made known his planned presence, I.e. his imminent visit.
> But it is definitely true that in modern Greek παρουσία only means ‘presence’, except in the set expression Δευτέρα Παρουσία, (Christ’s) second coming. Παίρνω παρουσίες = to take attendance.


Thank you. Since the article “τοῖς” in the statement “ἐμὴν παρουσίαν τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα” is in the *dative case*, is Josephus speaking of his *coming to* the people in Tiberias? Or he is referring to his imminent *presence* *among* the people of Tiberias? (The preposition "ἐν" can mean either "in" or "among," depending on how the above statement is interpreted.)


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## Αγγελος

Σημαίνω, of which σημαινούντα is a future participle in the accusative singular, means ‘signify’, ‘make known’, and takes a dative indirect object: προπέμψας ἄγγελον τὸν τὴν ἐμὴν *παρουσίαν *τοῖς ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι σημανοῦντα means “having sent before me a messenger, who was to make known my presence to those who were in Tiberias.” Grammatically, it is Josephus’ παρουσία that will be announced _to_ the people in Tiberias, not his παρουσία in or among them.


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## Alexander2

I can see now that the Greek text can be understood as saying that the messenger was to make known to the people of Tiberias Josephus’ arrival.

Previously, I had also wondered whether the word “παρουσία” is linked with the dative article “τοῖς” in the phrase “*τοῖς* ἐν τῇ Τιβεριάδι,” indicating Josephus’ coming *to* the people in Tiberias. But it seems that the word “παρουσία” is not grammatically linked with any word in the sentence and that it is the word “σημανοῦντα” which is linked with the dative article “τοῖς.”

What is still not clear to me is whether the messenger was to make known to Tiberians the coming of Josephus while Josephus was still marching to the city or whether the messenger was to make known Josephus' presence as soon as Josephus would reach the city and be present there. Which of the two meanings above is the correct one? Would you render the word “παρουσία” as “coming” instead of “presence” in this instance?

I have been writing a book about the Second Coming where in one section I discuss the meanings of the word παρουσία in order to show that “presence” is not the only meaning of the word, but that the word also has the meaning “coming.” Since Greek is not my language (and neither is English my native language), I have to make perfectly sure that what I write does not contain any mistakes.


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## Αγγελος

Josephus says that he "sent a courier in advance" (or "before him" -- *προ*πέμψας άγγελον, where προ can refer to both time and place). So I imagine that the courier was sent (galloping, no doubt, while Josephus with his two hundred men _marched _all night long),  to inform the people of Tiberias that he was coming, _ahead of his coming_. As J. approached the city at dawn (so _before entering the city)_ he was met by the people, who therefore knew ahead of time that he was coming. It would make no sense to send a courier ahead of time but only have him inform the people when J. had already arrived.
I still think that _in this particular passage _παρουσία is best translated as 'visit', which includes the idea of arriving and the idea of being there.
Your question made me think of the beginning of Xenophon's _Anabasis. "_Because Darius was ill and suspected his life might be coming to an end, ἐβούλετο τὼ παῖδε ἀμφοτέρω [dual!] παρεῖναι = he wanted both his sons to be present" -- which of course means that he summoned both his sons to his side and that they arrived. παρουσία is the noun derived from παρεῖναι =to be there, to be present.
Liddell-Scott-Jones, the standard Lexicon of ancient Greek, gives several meanings for παρουσία, including "_arrival_, esp. _visit_ of a royal or official personage"  (see Henry George Liddell, Robert Scott,  A Greek-English Lexicon, παρουσ-ία). It does not seem to denote the _moment of one's arrival _(that would be ἂφιξις)_ , _but rather the_ fact of one's having arrived and therefore being there._
Jesus Christ's second coming is, in that sense, His second visit on Earth -- a truly royal visit, in contrast to His humble first visit (His incarnation). I don't think we should split hairs to distinguish between 'arrival' and 'presence', both notions being included in a king's παρουσία.
But, to return to your original question, in _modern _Greek παρουσία *only *means 'presence', 'attendance', except in the set expression δευτέρα παρουσία (also note the archaic form δευτέρα, vs. the normal form δεύτερη for the feminine of 'second').


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## Alexander2

Thank you for the explanations. Since the courier was to report Josephus’ παρουσία *while Josephus was still marching* to the city, why do you think that the word παρουσία should be translated as “visit” rather than as “*coming*”? Since Josephus was still marching toward the city, does the word παρουσία refer to the *act of traveling toward* the city?

Another translation, by William Whiston, renders the statement as “I took two hundred men along with me, and traveled all night, having sent before a messenger to let the people of Tiberias know that I *was coming to them*.”


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## Αγγελος

I am not saying it does not mean ‘coming’. I am saying that a ‘visit’ includes the idea of ‘coming’, and that we are perhaps splitting hairs.


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## Alexander2

I was not certain whether the word can be used with reference to an action of coming which is in progress (“coming” as a process) or only to a state of presence or arrival. The difference between a coming and a visit is that a coming is an action of moving, whereas a visit is a state of being somewhere. Therefore, I wanted to know whether in Josephus’ text, the word refers to an action of coming as a process of moving forward during the night. William Whiston’s translation gives the idea that this word refers to Josephus’ action of coming, or marching, during the night before he reached the city.


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