# Classical Persian: گشت پرسان جماعت را چه بود



## Qureshpor

What does the following Maulavi couplet mean?

گشت پرسان جماعت را چه بود

Does it mean..

He began asking, " What happened to the party"?


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## Qureshpor

QURESHPOR said:


> What does the following Maulavi couplet mean?
> 
> گشت پرسان جماعت را چه بود
> 
> Does it mean..
> 
> He began asking, " What happened to the party"?



Come on you Persian speakers! Meet this challenge! And ask me anything you like about Urdu grammar!


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## searcher123

گشت پرسان که جماعت را چه بود

  که ز مسجد می برون آیند زود


Yes, that means the same.


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## Qureshpor

searcher123 said:


> گشت پرسان که جماعت را چه بود
> 
> که ز مسجد می برون آیند زود
> 
> 
> Yes, that means the same.



The same as what?


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## searcher123

QURESHPOR said:


> The same as what?



He began asking, " What happened to the party"?


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> What does the following Maulavi couplet mean?
> 
> گشت پرسان جماعت را چه بود
> 
> Does it mean..
> 
> He began asking, " What happened to the party"?



As I mentioned in another thread, it is گشت پرساں  and not گشت پرسان, but to answer your question I think it is better to translate it as “he asked”, rather than “he began asking”.

گشت پرساں كہ جماعت را چہ بود

_He asked "What happened to the congregation?"_


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> As I mentioned in another thread, it is گشت پرساں  and not گشت پرسان, but to answer your question I think it is better to translate it as “he asked”, rather than “he began asking”.
> 
> گشت پرساں كہ جماعت را چہ بود
> 
> _He asked "What happened to the congregation?"_



*
Thank you, Faylasoof Sahib. There is a reason behind my depiction of pursaaN as pursaan. Explanation to follow in "another" thread.

I had n't come across this grammatical construction, hence my query. Would this be equivalent to "vuh puuchhtaa (hu'aa) banaa"?
*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *
> Thank you, Faylasoof Sahib. There is a reason behind my depiction of pursaaN as pursaan. Explanation to follow in "another" thread.
> 
> I had n't come across this grammatical construction, hence my query. Would this be equivalent to "vuh puuchhtaa (hu'aa) banaa"?
> *



Welcome Qureshpor!

 Well, in a literal sense yes but as you can see in the Urdu rendering it doesn't seem to quite work that well though most will get to know what is meant.

I'm taking پرسان گشت to mean پرسید, and yes it does seem like an unusual construction.


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## HZKhan

One of the meanings of the verb 'gashtan' is 'shudan'. Therefore, you can substitute 'pursaan shud' for 'pursaan gasht' without any change in the meaning.


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## Qureshpor

Thank you, Pakistani Khan SaaHib. Yes, I am aware of gashtan = shudan but it is the construction "pursaan gashtan/shudan" that I was asking about. I know that "ravaaN shud" would be the Urdu "ravaanah hu'aa" but "pursaan" (like ravaan( is the present participle. So, in Urdu this equates to "puuchtaa hu'aa hu'aa/banaa", which I think more idiomatically would be "puuchhne lagaa". I believe this is what is implied here.

گشت پرساں كہ جماعت را چہ بود

وہ پوچھنے لگا کہ جماعت کا کیا ہؤا یا کیا بنا۔

آپ کا کیا خیال ہے؟


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## HZKhan

پرسان گشت/شد، پرسید کی شاعرانہ شکل معلوم ہو رہی ہے۔ لیکن اردو میں اس کا بامحاورہ ترجمہ 'وہ پوچھنے لگا' بھی کیا جا سکتا ہے۔ 
ویسے اردو میں ہم 'چلتا بننا' استعمال کرتے ہیں۔ یہ فارسی ترکیب بھی اسی قبیل کی معلوم ہوتی ہے۔​


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## eskandar

I don't think "he started asking" (which is how I understand _puuchhne lagaa_) is quite the right translation. _Pursaan_ is an adjective meaning 'inquisitive, asking'. Therefore, "he became inquisitive [about] what happened to the congregation" seems to fit better in my humble opinion.


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## colognial

Hi. If I may join in, I'd say "he became inquisitive", suggested by eskandar, conveys the sense quite accurately. However, the subject also took action in the form of asking questions. This is present as a nuance in the very same sentence: _Gasht Porson_. The man actually asked around to find the cause for the congregation's early departure. Gashtan means _to turn into, to become_. But when it's not serving as a linking verb, _gashtan _means _to walk about, to tour_. So, not only did he turn inquisitive, he walked among the crowd asking the question what had come over the people.


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## Qureshpor

eskandar said:


> I don't think "he started asking" (which is how I understand _puuchhne lagaa_) is quite the right translation. _Pursaan_ is an adjective meaning 'inquisitive, asking'. Therefore, "he became inquisitive [about] what happened to the congregation" seems to fit better in my humble opinion.


eskandar SaaHib, "puuchhne lagaa" does n't necessarily mean "He started asking" but simply "He asked". In the Persian sentence, does "pursaan" mean "puuchhtaa hu'aa", as in:

 رسن بگردن ِ ایشان کردند و کشان بمدینہ بُردند

چہار مقالہ

اُنھوں نے اُن کی گردن میں رسّا ڈالا اور کھینچتے ہوئے مدینہ لے گئے۔


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## eskandar

QP SaaHib, I'm still not convinced that _pursaan_ is quite the same as _puuchhtaa hu'aa _ though it could just be due to my incomplete knowledge of Urdu. I find aaghaa-ye colognial's explanation in post #13 makes the most sense (as soon as I read it, I said to myself "of course! _gasht porsaan_ - he went about/around asking"). In this sense would _puuchhte puuchhte _capture the meaning of _pursaan_ better? Eg. _pursaan gasht_ = _puuchhte puuchhte ghuumaa_​ perhaps?


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## Qureshpor

eskandar said:


> QP SaaHib, I'm still not convinced that _pursaan_ is quite the same as _puuchhtaa hu'aa _ though it could just be due to my incomplete knowledge of Urdu. I find aaghaa-ye colognial's explanation in post #13 makes the most sense (as soon as I read it, I said to myself "of course! _gasht porsaan_ - he went about/around asking"). In this sense would _puuchhte puuchhte _capture the meaning of _pursaan_ better? Eg. _pursaan gasht_ = _puuchhte puuchhte ghuumaa_​ perhaps?


Yes, I agree. aaqaa-ye-colognial makes an important point and taking the meaning of "gastan" as "going around" instead of "becoming" could solve the mystery for me.

 gasht pursaan jamaa3at-raa chih buud 

 = pursaan *gasht,* "jamaa3at-raa chih buud?"

 = *He went around* asking, "What happened to the congregation?"

 = vuh puuchhtaa hu'aa i*dhar udhar gayaa*,* "jamaa3at kaa kyaa banaa?"

* ghuumaa

Still, the use of "buud" for "shud" a bit odd, don't you think?


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## colognial

Qureshpor said:


> Still, the use of "buud" for "shud" a bit odd, don't you think?



Let's say it is odd enough to make you notice the words more. It is an agreeable oddness. Of course, the word buud is more or less dictated to the poet by the word zuud with which it rhymes. But the sentence has not become deprived of meaning or its esthetic value because of this deviation from the more familiar 'jamaa-at raa che shod'. I suppose "jamaa-at raa che buud" may be translated as "what was the matter with the crowd", instead of "what had happened to the crowd".


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