# Spanish in the Philippines vs. Latin America



## Gavril

Hello,

I have wondered recently about the comparative status of the indigenous languages in former Spanish colonies. In the Americas, though a great number of indigenous languages are still spoken, none of them has much political or economic power, as far as I am aware. In the Philippines, by contrast, at least some of the indigenous languages seem quite relevant politically and economically, even though a great deal of their vocabulary comes from Spanish.

Does anyone with a (much) greater knowledge than I have of Philippine / Latin American history know the reason for the contrast described above? I welcome thoughts on this topic.


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## jazyk

Maybe this (in Spanish) will shed a little bit of light onto it.


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## Outsider

Gavril said:


> I have wondered recently about the comparative status of the indigenous languages in former Spanish colonies. In the Americas, though a great number of indigenous languages are still spoken, none of them has much political or economic power, as far as I am aware.


With possibly one exception, Guarani.



Gavril said:


> In the Philippines, by contrast, at least some of the indigenous languages seem quite relevant politically and economically, even though a great deal of their vocabulary comes from Spanish.
> 
> Does anyone with a (much) greater knowledge than I have of Philippine / Latin American history know the reason for the contrast described above? I welcome thoughts on this topic.


I am not well informed about the history of the Philippines, but my guess is that two factors might have been present:

1) The Spanish domination may have been "looser" in the Philippines, given their enormous distance from Spain.

2) After Spain, the Philippines came under the influence of the United States. In this period, the Spanish language lost much prestige, being replaced with English.


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## avok

Gavril,

Latin America was populated largely by European immigrants and those new guests had to learn Spanish to communicate among themselves and the next generations spoke only Spanish. But the Phillipines has always been populated by the local Filipino peoples, no matter what kind of dialect they have spoken.


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## sokol

Outsider said:


> With possibly one exception, Guarani.



Exactly, and further there are newer trends of reviving other indigenuous South American languages: for example Quechua now is second official language of Peru, and according to the German Wiki page (the English one does not mention this) Mexico has acknowledged the status of a number of indigenuous languages (of which Nahuatl is the most important) as 'national languages' even though in Mexico the percentage of speakers of indigenuous languages is much smaller than in Peru or Paraguay.

And according to my Spanish teacher (who is a native of Spain) this trend may even continue.

As for the Philippines, Spanish was _never _as important there as it was and is in Latin America, and the most important foreign language in the Philippines has been English for at least two or three centuries, probably even longer.
So the situation is not quite comparable.

According to the English Wiki site Spanish was spoken as a foreign language by probably 60% of the population in the early 1900's - but today the picture is completely different as English has taken over the role Spanish once had. Of the native Filippinos only a few Mestizos now speak it as their first language (it is kind of a hybrid Spanish, I think) but there was never a situation like in South America where there are a great many Mestizos speaking Spanish as their first language (especially in Mexico) or Indios and/or Mestizos speaking Spanish as first or their Indio language plus Spanish as their two 'mother tongues' as is the case in many other nations, with Paraguay being one of the few where the _majority _of the population is bilingual Spanish + Guaraní.


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## demalaga

Something more about indigenous languages in Latin America.From a reliable source this quote
 GUATEMALA SPEAKERS
"Spanish 60%, Amerindian languages 40% (23 officially recognized Amerindian languages, including Quiche, Cakchiquel, Kekchi, Mam, Garifuna, and Xinca)"


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## Gavril

sokol said:


> As for the Philippines, Spanish was _never _as important there as it was and is in Latin America, and the most important foreign language in the Philippines has been English for at least two or three centuries, probably even longer.



Could you elaborate on this? I wasn't aware that English had become more important than Spanish one or two hundred years before the end of Spanish rule. Also, I've only studied a little bit of Tagalog, but it seems to me that there is a considerably larger percentage of Spanish words in the language than English words -- how does this square with such a long period of English influence? These are not rhetorical questions; I really am curious about the answers.

Thanks to everyone for the information provided so far.


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## avok

Bur English is still a "foreign" language in the Philipines, it is not like Spanish in Latin America.


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## demalaga

Dear Avok.You should know that English is today official language in  The Philippines.
I supoose that when Sokol says centuries he really means decades.


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## avok

Dear Demalaga, 

English may be an official language in the Philippines but still it is not an Anglo-Saxon country the way Autralia, South Africa is. They are not native speakers of English or Protestant. But in Latin America people are Catholic and native Spanish speakers. (if we compare them to each other)


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## Outsider

Most Filipinos are not Spanish speakers, though.


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## sokol

Gavril said:


> Could you elaborate on this? I wasn't aware that English had become more important than Spanish one or two hundred years before the end of Spanish rule.


Oh, I am sorry - I wrote centuries instead of decades ... how could I ... anyway:

Spanish rule in the Philippines already came to an end as a consequence of the Spanish-American War, in 1898 - the archipelago became an American colony and only after World War II the Philippines were granted full independence. This you can all read in Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippines#History
So the shift of focus on languages changed when their leaders changed - but I can't tell you how long the Spanish cultural influence was important in the Philippines, I am only sure that in a famous film (Operation Petticoat) set in World War II some Filippinos either speak a native language with many Spanish loans or probably a kind of mixed, hybrid Spanish variety. But on that I am no expert, I only gathered bits and pieces of information here and there.

As for Tagalog having more Spanish loans, this would be quite logical if you consider history: Spanish rule over several centuries (16th to 19th), American rule and, later, American cultural influence over only one century. But again, this too is only guesswork, I am definitely no specialist in this field.

Whatever, it is clear that at least after the Second World War American influence was stronger than Spanish reminiscences, probably even earlier - I cannot be sure of when the shift from Spanish to American influence occured, certainly not sharp in the year 1898, certainly centuries later, probably even only in the 60ies and 70ies.
Someone more familiar with the situation there would have to answer that one.


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## WHAAT!

I AM A Filipina, and  I agree that Spanish colonization in the Philippines for so long had left not only language also their culture. However  During the Spanish Era,most people did not learned the language as much as those of English .(where Schools and universities were build and English was used as a medium of instruction). Only few poeple learned the language, mostly the Aristocrat.
During the Spanish Colonization, Filipinos had to follow spanish culture, where, girls were left at home, were thougth about dress making, cooking and other household chores. On the other hand only Filipino (men) were allowed to go to school to study language arts, philosophy and medicines. No wonder why most of Filipino heroes are men.
hope these help..


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## jeffnben

Gavril said:


> Could you elaborate on this? I wasn't aware that English had become more important than Spanish one or two hundred years before the end of Spanish rule. Also, I've only studied a little bit of Tagalog, but it seems to me that there is a considerably larger percentage of Spanish words in the language than English words -- how does this square with such a long period of English influence? These are not rhetorical questions; I really am curious about the answers.
> 
> Thanks to everyone for the information provided so far.


 
He/she was mistaken.

The Americans didnt take over until the turn of the century(1890's or so) so English has only been around for ONE(UNO) century not centuries. I agree with the theory that Latin America was loosley populated and that most people who populated the continent were Europeans specifically Spainish unlike the Philippines who already have quite a large number of people.


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## HUMBERT0

Basically, in my opinion, was that Las Filipinas were colonized by the US, and they imposed their language, while Spanish was stigmatized and usage declined, whereas in America Española Spanish expanded and keeps expanding, at least in my country, even in the most remote Native American village Spanish is ever more present. Spanish in Las Filipinas didn’t have the chance to become a language taught as part of some kind of public education system like it has happened in America.

http://www.galeondemanila.org/index.php/es/curiosidades-historicas/81-dos-universidades-filipinas-las-mas-antiguas-de-asia

http://www.seacex.es/Spanish/Publicaciones/296/imag_colonial_12_educacion.pdf


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## danielfigfoz

I think its mostly because Latin America has a mostly non-Native population whereas the Philippines does have a mostly Native population.


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## Benkarnell

Don't forget that Spanish colonization in Latin America came with diseases that killed a majority of the people and wiped out many of their social and political structures.  It's not hard to see how that kind of social disruption made it easier for Spanish to spread, especially when the Spanish tended to move the survivors to new settlements under their control.  The Philippines, by contrast, had been part of the Eurasian trade and disease network for a long time; its people had more immunities and so did not suffer depopulation on that scale when they were colonized.  Their societies did not experience the same stresses as in the Americas.


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## pareanom

The influx of Spaniards into the Philippines was but a trickle, nothing like the flood that entered Latin America, creating in the latter large mestizo populations speaking Spanish.  

Spanish missionaries in the Philippines (generally the only Spaniards natives had much contact with) also preached and governed in the local languages rather than in Spanish. 

A significant mestizo population was created in the Philippines under Spanish rule, but it was of a native-CHINESE mix (speaking indigenous languages not Spanish).

By the late 19th century, a small educated elite formed; it was drawn from different regions and thus spoke different indigenous languages -- their common language was Spanish. Had the Americans never conquered the Philippines at the turn of the 20th c., then Spanish would have been the national and elite language just as English and French are national and elite languages in many African countries.  

As it happened, English came to fulfill that role in the Philippines, though it had to share that role with the indigenous language Tagalog (though nowadays because of modern media its role has gone far beyond the elite). In other words, the Philippines has two national languages, English and Tagalog, the former more elite than the latter.


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## Gavril

pareanom said:


> The influx of Spaniards into the Philippines was but a trickle, nothing like the flood that entered Latin America, creating in the latter large mestizo populations speaking Spanish.
> 
> Spanish missionaries in the Philippines (generally the only Spaniards natives had much contact with) also preached and governed in the local languages rather than in Spanish.
> 
> A significant mestizo population was created in the Philippines under Spanish rule, but it was of a native-CHINESE mix (speaking indigenous languages not Spanish).



Interesting -- does this mean that the word _mestiso_, as used in the Philippines, has no implication of European ancestry (unlike the cognate words _mestizo_ in Latin America and _métis_ in formerly-French America)?



> By the late 19th century, a small educated elite formed; it was drawn from different regions and thus spoke different indigenous languages -- their common language was Spanish.



Would you say that the large number of Spanish loanwords in the Philippine languages is the result of many centuries of continuous influence, or did it come from a short, but concentrated period of influence in the 19th century?

My impression (from the small amount of Tagalog I know) is that Tagalog has native alternatives for many, if not most Spanish loanwords, but the Spanish loanwords are usually preferred in practice. Maybe this shows that the Spanish influence is relatively new?


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## pareanom

Gavril,

_Interesting -- does this mean that the word __mestiso, as used in the Philippines, has no implication of European ancestry (unlike the cognate words __mestizo in Latin America and __métis in formerly-French America)?

_During the Spanish colonial period, there were "mestizos sangleyes," mixed native-Chinese and "mestizos españoles," mixed native-Spanish.  The former were much more numerous.

Nowadays, "mestizo" refers only to native + Euro-American mixes because the native-Chinese category has merged into the pure native category.
_
Would you say that the large number of Spanish loanwords in the  Philippine languages is the result of many centuries of continuous  influence, or did it come from a short, but concentrated period of  influence in the 19th century?_

Both. There is a stratum of loanwords that is very old (and more indigenized in form) going back to the beginning of Spanish rule (though some of these might even be loans from Portuguese via Malay which actually PREDATE the Spanish conquest -- 1565 vs. 1511 Portuguese capture of Malacca). In this older stratum are also words from Nahuatl brought by Mexican personnel in the Spanish ranks, e.g. two words for "market," _tiyangge_ and _palengke_.

Then there is a stratum of loanwords (whose forms are close to the Spanish originals) 
that dates only to the 19th century.

_My impression (from the small amount of Tagalog I know) is that Tagalog  has native alternatives for many, if not most Spanish loanwords, but the  Spanish loanwords are usually preferred in practice. Maybe this shows  that the Spanish influence is relatively new?_

Yes, there are many native-Spanish doublets; the native word is generally reserved for poetry and other literary uses while the Spanish word is used for ordinary conversation.  Tagalog that uses lots of native words is called "deep" Tagalog.

Of course, now English words are used in most colloquial registers, displacing Spanish words that now sound archaic.


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## mataripis

spanish language successfully propagated in latin america causing their native language to extinct.but in the Philippines, spanish pidgin is localized to certain areas, the influence of ethnic dialects is stronger than spanish language.  In fact, the loan words of tagalog from spanish can be omitted and replaced by ethnic words coming from nearby regions inside the philippine archipelago!


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## Istriano

The most important,
Latin American countries were colonies (in the sense of massive immigration from Europe, and in the case of Brazil, Cuba, Colombia from Africa too) while Philippines were not.


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