# All dialects/MSA: already



## abusaf

كثيرًا ما أجد صعوبات حين أريد أن أعبّر عن فكرة الكلمة المذكورة في العنوان في اللغة العربية. يبدو أنها عديمة المثيل العربي لأنني سمعت مصريين يقولونها بالإنكليزي.​
عندما نقولها في وسط الجملة يمكنا التركيب التالي:​
I already did it​
لقد فعلته قبلاً​وهذه الترجمة تنقل مراد الجملة الأصلية إلى حدٍ ما.صحيح أن تنقصها الدقة المطلوبة, غير أن الرسالة على الأرجح تصل. 

ولكن الأمور تزداد صعوبةً حين تنفصل الكلمة عن سياقها, وتبيت سؤالاً تعجبيًا, كما يلي​
I'm done ​
- Already?​
هل هناك كلمة لائمة لنقل فكرة هذا السؤال إلى العربية دون أن يُفقد العروبة, إن صح لنا التعبير, ؟​
رفيقكم​
أبو صفية​


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## ayed

*قد* عملته *قبل قليل*
*قد* عملته *للتو*
I see "already" means"قد" .This is my own view.
You could use "qd" without adding "qabl qaleel or littao"


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## cherine

> ولكن الأمور تزداد صعوبةً حين تنفصل الكلمة عن سياقها, وتبيت سؤالاً تعجبيًا, كما يلي​
> I'm done ​
> - Already?​
> هل هناك كلمة لائمة لنقل فكرة هذا السؤال إلى العربية دون أن يُفقد العروبة, إن صح لنا التعبير, ؟​
> رفيقكم​
> أبو صفية​



معك حق أبا صفية، فهذه الكلمة من الكلمات الصعبة في الترجمة، وفعلاً نحن في مصر نقولها بالإنجليزية أحيانًا وسط الكلام العربي

محاولة للترجمة :
- انتهيت من عملي
- بهذه السرعة ؟ (نعم المعنى مختلف قليلاً، لكنه قريب إلى حد ما)

بصفة عامة، نترجم هذه الكلمة عادةً بكلمة (بالفعل) : لقد انتهيت بالفعل من هذا العمل. لقد قمت بالفعل بإنجاز هذا العمل.....​​


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## elroy

ayed said:


> *قد* عملته *قبل قليل*
> *قد* عملته *للتو*
> I see "already" means"قد" .This is my own view.
> You could use "qd" without adding "qabl qaleel or littao"


للأسف هذه ترجمة غير سليمة بل إنها ترجمة لكلمة just الإنجليزية.​


cherine said:


> معك حق أبا صفية، فهذه الكلمة من الكلمات الصعبة في الترجمة، وفعلاً نحن في مصر نقولها بالإنجليزية أحيانًا وسط الكلام العربي ​


 
إن الكلمة الإنجليزية تستخدم في اللهجة الفلسطينية أيضًا، مع أننا لدينا تركيب يماثل التركيب الإنجليزي تمامًا.
I already did it. = صرت عامله (_Suret 3aamlo_).
I'm done.  Already? = خلصت.  صرت مخلص؟ = (_KhallaSet.  Surt imkhalles?_)
 
ولكن السؤال بالطبع ليس عن اللهجات بل عن العربية الفصحى.

أولاً بالنسبة إلى I already did it فأظن أنه يوجد مقابل في العربية الفصحى:
*(لقد) سبق وفعلته*
"لقد فعلته قبلاً" تعني "I have done it previously" وبالتالي لا تفيد المعنى المطلوب
.


> محاولة للترجمة :
> - انتهيت من عملي
> - بهذه السرعة ؟ (نعم المعنى مختلف قليلاً، لكنه قريب إلى حد ما)


هذا اقتراح جيد، ولكن الترجمة تختلف بالطبع حسب السياق. 



> بصفة عامة، نترجم هذه الكلمة عادةً بكلمة (بالفعل) : لقد انتهيت بالفعل من هذا العمل. لقد قمت بالفعل بإنجاز هذا العمل.....


 أنا أرى "بالفعل" كترجمة لـindeed ولذلك فإني لا أراها كترجمة مناسبة.​​


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## ayed

*إلياس مشكور على التعليقات*​ 
*إذا كنت ستترجم بلهجتك المحلية فإني قد ترجمت الجملة بلهجتي المحلية ايضاَ.*​ 
*فعندما يُطلب من احد القيام بعمل ما وينفذه يأتي السؤال:*​ 
*هل انجزت عملك؟*​ 
*نعم ، قد أنهيته..أو قد فعلت..أو قد *​ 
*ومعنى(قــد) أنها تفيد (التحقيق) اي التحقق من تنفيذ العمل المطلوب..*​ 
*أود أن أقول بأن ترجمة اللغة إلى أخرى نسبية أي أن الأمر ليس مثل 1+1 = 2*​ 
*فقد تترجم بالمبنى وقد تترجم بالمعنى . لعلك فهمت المقصود من هذا.وقد خلتك أنك على هذا النهج *​ 
*Meaning-based translation *​ 
*Structure-based translation*.​


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## elroy

لم أعلم أنك كنت تترجم إلى لهجتك المحلية فبما أنك لم توضح ذلك (وبما أنني لم أتخيل أن كلمة "قد" تستخدم باللغة العامية) فإني افترضت أنك كنت تتكلم عن العربية الفصحى، وفي العربية الفصحى "قد" لا تفيد معنى "already". إني أعلم تمامًا أن الترجمة ليست دائمًا حرفية ولكنها يجب أن تفيد المعنى المطلوب.​ 
على كل حال أشكرك أنت أيضًا على تعليقاتك.​


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## ayed

elroy said:


> لم أعلم أنك كنت تترجم إلى لهجتك المحلية فبما أنك لم توضح ذلك (وبما أنني لم أتخيل أن كلمة "قد" تستخدم باللغة العامية) فإني افترضت أنك كنت تتكلم عن العربية الفصحى،​


 
*قــد تستعمل في الفصحى وعامية(نجد)وأنا لا أترجم إلى اللهجة المحلية إلا بطلب من دارس اللغة العربية.*
*وجل اللهجة النجدية أصل كلماتها في قواميس اللغة العربية مثل : قاموس لسان العرب، والقاموس المحيط ، وقاموس المخصص ، وقاموس العين وغيرها*
*شكرا مجدداً فقد استفدت من تعليقاتك كثيراً وشكر خاص لك على المتابعة والإشراف.*
*تحياتي*​


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## suma

elroy said:


> ، وفي العربية الفصحة "قد" لا تفيد معنى "already". إني أعلم تمامًا أن الترجمة ليست دائمًاحرفية ولكنها يجب أن تفيد المعنى المطلوب.​
> على كل حال أشكرك أنت أيضًا على تعليقاتك.​


 
I'd disagree, in my experience "qad" is indeed used at times to mean the sense of "already"  as in already did something.


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## elroy

suma said:


> I'd disagree, in my experience "qad" is indeed used at times to mean the sense of "already" as in already did something.


 Example, please?

To me, قد simply emphasizes that something _has been done_, not that it has _already_ been done - which has a different connotation.


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## ayed

elroy said:


> Example, please?
> 
> To me, قد simply emphasizes that something _has been done_, not that it has _already_ been done - which has a different connotation.


 
So, Suma has agreed upon my translation .So. my translation is acceptable.


As for has been done, I , for one, would translate it as:
Tumma(*تــم*)Or Tumma injazoh/Tumma tanfeethuh


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## elroy

ayed said:


> So, Suma has agreed upon my translation .So. my translation is acceptable.


Argumentum ad verecundiam. 

If it were as easy as "already" = قد, Abusaf would not have started this thread.

قد أشرقت الشمس. = The sun has risen. _not_ The sun has already risen. 

قد أشرقت الشمس means the same thing as أشرقت الشمس; it's just more emphatic.  قد is also sometimes necessary for grammatical reasons, but to me, it does not suggest that something "already" happened. 


> As for has been done, I , for one, would translate it as:
> Tumma(*تــم*)Or Tumma injazoh/Tumma tanfeethuh


 Yes, that is another possibility, but it doesn't work in all contexts.


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## Aydintashar

*Moderator's note :*
*This was a new thread, I thought I'd merge it to this one to avoid redundancies and to organize things a bit.*
*Please, guys, don't forget to carry on a search before opening a new thread.*
*Thanks *

Hello to All lovers of Arabic,
How do we express "already" in Arabic? For example, look at the following sentences:

- It is already 12 o'clock.
- My brother has already arrived.
- We are already too late.

I am "already" grateful to those who provide help.
Sincerely,
Aydin


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## leonardo da vinci

You can translate it as(فعلاً)......
-It is already 12 o'clolock =انها فعلاً الثانية عشرة....أو....انه فعلاً منصف 
النهار او الليل.
-My brother has already arrived=لقد وصل أخي فعلاً
-We are already too late=أننا فعلاً متأخرون جداً
Leonardo


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## elroy

Personally I wouldn't use فعلاً to translate it. فعلاً means "indeed" and is used to emphasize the truth of something, with no reference to time. 

In MSA, I would use سبق(ت) و if the verb is in the past.

_My brother has already arrived._ - لقد سبق ووصل أخي

For the present tense you have to get creative:

_It is already 12 o'clock._ - لقد سبقت ودقت الساعة الثانية عشرة (rewriting the sentence in the past tense)
_We are already too late._ - منذ مدة ونحن متأخرون للغاية (using an explicit time reference)

In Palestinian Arabic, we have a structure that perfectly expresses the English "already." 

_It is already 12 o'clock._ - الساعة صارت تنعش
_My brother has already arrived._ - أخوي صار واصل
_We are already too late._ - هيك هيك صرنا متأخرين كتير

Leonardo da Vinci, welcome to the forums!


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## leonardo da vinci

well,when you look for this word in any dictionary you will find the following meanings:قبل الآن.قد.سابقا.فعلاً.بالفعل which one you would use , according the meaning of the phrase....for example you can't say " لقد سبق ووصل أخي" as itsn't a complete sentence , you can say "لقد سبق ووصل اخي ذات مرة قبلنا " "my brothe has already arrived once before us ",on the other hand you can't say :
We are already too late. - منذ مدة ونحن متأخرون للغاية
but you can Say:
We are already too late. بالفعل نحن متأخرون للغاية
the following translation is accepted but not accurate:
already 12 o'clock. - الساعة صارت تنعش
Put on your mined that "تنعش" is a local dialect  and the right one is 'الثانية عشرة" أو"منتصف النهار أو الليل"

Regards


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## elroy

leonardo da vinci said:


> for example you can't say " لقد سبق ووصل أخي" as itsn't a complete sentence ,


 Yes it is.


> you can't say :
> We are already too late. - منذ مدة ونحن متأخرون للغاية


 Again, yes, you can.


> We are already too late. بالفعل نحن متأخرون للغاية


 As I stated above, this does not, in my opinion, communicate the right nuance.


> the following translation is accepted but not accurate:
> already 12 o'clock. - الساعة صارت تنعش
> Put on your mined that "تنعش" is a local dialect and the right one is 'الثانية عشرة" أو"منتصف النهار أو الليل"


 Please read my post carefully, specifically the part that preceded the sentences you refer to:

_*In Palestinian Arabic*, we have a structure that perfectly expresses the English "already."_


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## ayed

suma said:


> I'd disagree, in my experience "qad" is indeed used at times to mean the sense of "already" as in already did something.


I have got recently an old book called *Grammar of The Arabic Language *written by *E.H.Palmer , Fellow of ST.John's College and Lord Almoner's Rearder and Professor of Arabic in the University of* *Cambridge,Printed in 1875*
In this book , I found the professor has translated the word"already" to (*قـد*).
Just to confirm this view.


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## Soos

[Moderator note: This thread about Lebanese usage is now merged with the general one for all dialects. Cherine]

Hello!

I am looking for the Lebanese equivalent to "already", functioning as the following:

"I already washed the dishes."

It seems to me that this may be one of those frustrating circumstances where Arabic does not have such a word, but is rather unequivocally denoted in context alone.  But I could also be very wrong--it wouldn't be the first time.

Best,
Soosi


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## clevermizo

Unfortunately there is no direct translation.

For many transitive verbs, the active participle (اسم الفاعل） connotes that the action has just been or was already completed. For example:

Inta jo3aan?
La2, ana aakel.

(Are you hungry?
No, I've (already) eaten).

In your example, I'm not sure what would be more common:

Ana ghassalt S-S7uun

or

Ana mghassel S-S7uun.

I believe that if you can use the second one, that it would more emphatically bring across the meaning of "already" having done the action.


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## Soos

The second one sounds more natural to my ears.  Any other thoughts out there?


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## be.010

Hi!
Yes, as clevermizo said, there is no equivalent to "already" in Arabic. I personally use "already" itself when talking to someone who is expected to understand it!

Anyway, a good way is to use the form اسم الفاعل to mean "already done...", e.g.: ana ghaasleh SS7oon, 

I think that a good word to add here is "بالأصل", so it'd be:
ana bel2aSel ghaasle SS7oon. This one especially works if you are using the "had done" form. e.g.: 
وقت أجيت كنت بالأصل غاسلة الصحون
"I had already washed the dishes when you came..."

Any suggestions?!


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## Soos

Merci bien for all your efforts mes amis.


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## ma7adan

I have thought about this, and there isn't a word that corresponds exactly to the English "already". Aslan (أصلا) comes close, but it's better translated as "originally" or "anyway". Bil-asl (بالأصل) is very close in meaning, so I don't think it works either.  

Using the participle mghassel (مغسل) also sounds very weird, because participles are usually used as nouns in Arabic (unlike Hebrew, which uses them as the present tense). There are exceptions, such as raye7 (going) and jayi (coming). Akil also seems to work but I think that most people would say akalit (simple past tense) instead. At any rate, mghassel sounds more like someone who washes dishes for a living (noun). 

I think that the desire to use "already" comes from knowing languages that have such a word (like English), especially if you speak Arabic and think in English, which I do sometimes. A native Arabic speaker with no knowledge of such languages would simply say ghassaltun (I washed them) in response to the command "wash the dishes". To be emphatic, you could say "ghassaltun w khlost" (I have washed them and finished doing so), but even that is unnecessary.

I do not think that the situation calls for frustration whatsoever. Russian too has the tendency to answer yes and no questions not with a yes or a no, but with the verb in question, e.g. "Do they sell tickets at the front?" - "They sell". 

Do the same with Arabic - if the language does not have a word for "already" then people will obviously not expect your response to have one.


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## Soos

Thank you ma7adan for your personal opinion. 

I know that people understand me fully with saying pure and simple "ghassalton" and so on and so forth.  My frustration, whether it is deemed as founded or not by others, is indeed that I primarily speak English on a day-to-day basis (it makes sense, I am here in America!) and often do want to use the same lexical patterns.  However, studying many different languages over the course of my life, I have no trouble adjusting and understanding that many languages do not call for additional words to convey the same principal meaning.  Famed linguist Naom Chomsky would be the first to tell you that language and meaning, and how we consequently see the world, is based very intimatey on language, and the words it allows to (or not to) give to a particular semantic.

Merci bien 3la kel 7aal 3al ennus2a7.


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## shining_star24

Interesting, though we don't use the word "already" that much in our Arabic speech, sometimes I use the same English word in my colloquial speech. However, we might be able to translate it as " لــاــــتــــو " so we say: أنهيت طعامي للتو but it is really not that used in our language!


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## clevermizo

I've come across a construction (maybe it's just Syrian) which is: saba2 w-(3milt...). In this case, saba2 w-ghassalt iS-S7uun (I already washed the dishes), saba2 w-2iltillak heek (I already told you such and such). What do people think of this?


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## Soos

Interesting, I'ver never heard of it before but it sounds promising.


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## be.010

clevermizo said:


> I've come across a construction (maybe it's just Syrian) which is: saba2 w-(3milt...). In this case, saba2 w-ghassalt iS-S7uun (I already washed the dishes), saba2 w-2iltillak heek (I already told you such and such). What do people think of this?


That's PERFECT, Mizo! thanks! منين نكشتا?!!
And it's most likely even more Lebanese than Syrian...

** Just a question/note: Why are you guys using "gha*ss*alet SS7uun"?!! Is this the term used in Lebanon?!!
In Syria, we use "gha*s*alt" for things, and we usually use "gha*ss*alt" for human body parts (hands, face...etc.), I had to point that out because "ghassalt SS7uun" sounds quite odd in Syrian, and I wonder if it's used in other dialects!


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## Soos

Thank you! <3
Soos


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## clevermizo

be.010 said:


> That's PERFECT, Mizo! thanks! منين نكشتا?!!



لقيتها بقاموص اللهجة السورية تبعي. 



> ** Just a question/note: Why are you guys using "gha*ss*alet SS7oon"?!! Is this the term used in Lebanon?!!
> In Syria, we use "gha*s*alt" for things, and we usually use "gha*ss*alt" for human body parts (hands, face...etc.), I had to point that out because "ghassalt SS7oon" sounds quite odd in Syrian, and I wonder if it's used in other dialects!


Actually I was about to ask this question but I held back because it would be off topic. I was aware of ghasal and ghassal but unsure of how they were used differently. Thanks for clarifying.


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## ma7adan

be.010 said:


> ** Just a question/note: Why are you guys using "gha*ss*alet SS7oon"?!! Is this the term used in Lebanon?!!
> In Syria, we use "gha*s*alt" for things, and we usually use "gha*ss*alt" for human body parts (hands, face...etc.), I had to point that out because "ghassalt SS7oon" sounds quite odd in Syrian, and I wonder if it's used in other dialects!



In Lebanese, on the other hand, I think it would sound weird to say ghasalt without a double "ss". I wish I could answer this question with certainty, but one possible explanation is that the second verb form (fa33ala) is unusually common in Lebanese, especially because it is often used to express verbs that in Standard Arabic would take form IV (af3ala). I hope someone can answer this question better.

I was also wondering whether people actually said "SS7un" or "L-S7un". I understand that "Sad" is one of the solar letters, but I would be inclined to say "ghassalt l-S7un". In the singular, however, I would say "ghassalt SSa7n". Do people find this normal or weird?


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## elroy

*Moderator Note*: Let's stick to the topic.   Feel free to open a new thread if you wish to discuss the different words for "wash" or the pronunciation of the definite article before a ص.

 shining_star24, للتو doesn't mean "already"; it means "just."  You could say "I've already washed the dishes" anytime after having washed them, whether it's five minutes or ten hours later.

 In Palestinian Arabic, "already" is occasionally expressed using the English word (pronounced "orredi"), but we actually have a perfect native equivalent:

 I already washed the dishes.
Suret jaali 'S-S7uun.
 (We don't "ghassel" plates or "ighsel" them; we "ijlii" them. )

 More examples:

 I can watch TV because I've already done my homework.
Ba2dar a7Dar tilfizyoon la2inni Suret mkhalleS druusi.
 
 When I arrived at the party, they had already eaten the cake.
 Lamma wSilet 3al-7afle kaanu Saaru maakliin il-keks/il-ka3ke.

-You need to call you sister!
-I already did.
-Laazem titSel b2ukhtak!
-Suret mitSel.

 -It's five o'clock.
 -Already???
 -Is-see3a khamse.
 -Saarat???

 Sometimes we have to add "baadi":

It's already raining.
Saarat baadye tshatti.
 
 And sometimes we translate it using "min halla2":

 -I think your husband is going to go crazy once the baby comes.
 -Actually, he's already freaking out.
 -Azinni joozek ra7 yinjan lamma yiiji 'l-walad.
 -Huwwe min halla2 minjan!

As for سبق و, I didn't know that it was used in Syrian Arabic!  (It's used in MSA.)  I'm curious, though, how many of my examples could it be used in?  Something tells me it wouldn't work in all of them.

And do any other dialects use our wonderful "Saar" construction?


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## ma7adan

The "Saar" construction is used in Lebanese but not to express the idea of "already".

You could say "Sirt jaali l-s7un shi meet marra" (I've washed the dishes 100 times) to express your frustration. This also works for other actions like calling - "Sirt mittiSel shi meet marra bas ma 7ada rad" (I've called 100 times but no one has answered).


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## Soos

My first inclination, ma7adan, would be to say ghassalt essu7un. It's true though, it is ghassalt essu7un, but it is used in lebanese for dishes.

Elroy, your examples are especially helpful, thank you. I think for the sake of remaining consistent in my accent, I will stick with saba2. Good job all! Cheers!

Thanks for all the help again

Soos


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## elroy

ma7adan said:


> You could say "Sirt jaali l-s7un shi meet marra" (I've washed the dishes 100 times) to express your frustration. This also works for other actions like calling - "Sirt mittiSel shi meet marra bas ma 7ada rad" (I've called 100 times but no one has answered).


Yeah, we use it that way too, but we also use "Saar" with a temporal meaning (like "already"), as in my examples above.


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## be.010

Hi!


elroy said:


> I'm curious, though, how many of my examples could it be used in? Something tells me it wouldn't work in all of them.



Yes, right, not all of them.

This is getting complicated!
For almost all of those with "Suret 3aamel..." examples (or I already did/have done) it's _acceptable_ to use "سبق و...", with some reservations, though... Here are the examples you mentioned in Syrian Arabic:

saba2 w jaleet SS7oon
(We either mnejli SS7oon or mnghselon. )


I can watch TV because I've already done my homework.
fiini/be2der etfarraj 3attelfezyoon la2anni (m5alles druusi/dirasti)/(kaateb waZaayfi)


When I arrived at the party, they had already eaten the cake.
wa2et wSelet 3al 7afle kaanu aakliin l gaatto (wm 5alSiin)

-You need to call you sister!
-I already did.
-Laazem titSel b2ukhtak!
-saba2 wettaSalet

-It's five o'clock.
-Already???
-Is-see3a khamse.
-7alla (tSiir)?!

Sometimes we have to add "baadi":

It's already raining.
??? _Depends on the context_!

And sometimes we translate it using "min halla2":

-I think your husband is going to go crazy once the baby comes.
-Actually, he's already freaking out.
-bZinn joozek ra7 yjen lamma yiiji 'l-walad.
-Huwwe min halla2 jaanen!

One more example:
shayyaket eemeelak? (Have you checked your email?)
saba2 w shayyakto ma fi shi jdiid. (I've already checked it, nothing new...)





> And do any other dialects use our wonderful "Saar" construction?


Yes, we do! But when we specify the number of times the "thing" has been done, whether it's real or just to express frustration as ma7adan said.
e.g. seret metteSel 3 marrat w ma kan yred.

Best ragards!


----------



## elroy

be.010 said:


> I can watch TV because I've already done my homework.
> fiini/be2der etfarraj 3attelfezyoon la2anni (m5alles druusi/dirasti)/(kaateb waZaayfi)
> 
> 
> When I arrived at the party, they had already eaten the cake.
> wa2et wSelet 3al 7afle kaanu aakliin l gaatto (wm 5alSiin)


 We could also say "la2inni mkhalles druusi" and "kaanu maakliin..." but that would be like saying "because I'm done with my homework" and "they had eaten...". The "already" nuance is not expressed.



> It's already raining.
> ??? _Depends on the context_!


 Does it really?

I don't really see how context would affect the translation, but here's a context for you:

According to the weather forecast, it should start raining around 5 p.m. So you decide to meet up with a friend around 3 p.m. to play some basketball outside. Around 2:45, it starts to rain, so you call your friend and say, "I think we're going to need to cancel because it's *already* raining."


> shayyaket eemeelak? (Have you checked your email?)
> saba2 w shayyakto ma fi shi jdiid. (I've already checked it, nothing new...)


 First of all, "shayyaket"?  What a horrible Anglicism! 

We would say "Suret faa7So w-fish ishi jdiid."

I think it's super interesting that you actually use "saba2 w" in colloquial Syrian! 


> Yes, we do! But when we specify the number of times the "thing" has been done, whether it's real or just to express frustration as ma7adan said.
> e.g. seret metteSel 3 marrat w ma kan yred.


 This is also an interesting difference. We can use it that way too, but its use is not limited to that.


----------



## Sidjanga

elroy said:


> I already did it. = صرت عامله (_Suret 3aamlo_).


Is it the same when a woman says it?


----------



## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> Is it the same when a woman says it?


 No, it would be صرت عاملته (_Suret 3amilto_).


----------



## WadiH

elroy said:


> قد أشرقت الشمس means the same thing as أشرقت الشمس; it's just more emphatic.



I don't think this is true.  You can't for example say قد أشرقت الشمس قبل مائة عام or قد ولد فلان سنة 1800 because those events occurred two long ago.  Rather, قد when used in this way usually serves the same function as the English present perfect tense.

I haven't had a chance to research the use of قد as "already" in the old source books.  However, I suspect that it may indeed have been capable of carrying the meaning of "already" in Classical Arabic.  There is already something similar to this in the equivalent of the past perfect:  عندما وصلت كان قد عاد إلى البيت (he had already returned home when I arrived).  This may explain why قد (as "qad" in Yemen or "gid"/"gud" in Saudi Arabia) still mean "already" from the southernmost mountaintops of Yemen to the northernmost bedouins in Syria.   We need to be careful about projecting our own understanding of Modern Newspaper Arabic onto Classical Arabic.  Does this mean it is acceptable nowadays in MSA to use قد to mean "already?"  That's a separate question, but given the fact that even in my own speech I'm often forced to add words like أصلاً or ألريدي in order for some people to understand me (due to the influence of Newspaper Arabic on people's understanding of قد), my guess is that the modern understanding that you have is what will prevail in the end.


----------



## elroy

Wadi Hanifa said:


> I don't think this is true.  You can't for example say قد أشرقت الشمس قبل مائة عام or قد ولد فلان سنة 1800 because those events occurred two long ago.  Rather, قد when used in this way usually serves the same function as the English present perfect tense.


 I did not mean to say that قد makes no difference, and I agree with you that it is generally used to express a "present perfect" meaning.  My point was that it does not have an "already" connotation.



> There is already something similar to this in the equivalent of the past perfect:  عندما وصلت كان قد عاد إلى البيت (he had already returned home when I arrived).


 I would translate that as "He had returned home when I arrived."  كان قد simply expresses the past perfect, without an "already" connotation.


----------



## Sidjanga

elroy said:


> No, it would be صرت عاملته (_Suret 3amilto_).


So would you normally use the participle with صرت, or is the ماضي also possible?


----------



## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> So would you normally use the participle with صرت, or is the ماضي also possible?


 It's always used with the participle, never with the ماضي.


----------



## Sidjanga

Hi again,

Would you use صرت in this sentence? (or in similar sentences, where "already" doesn't refer to a specific action that has "already" been performed.)

_I already knew/spoke Spanish when I first went to Spain._


----------



## elroy

Sidjanga said:


> _I already knew/spoke Spanish when I first went to Spain._


 Yes: لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت أعرف اسبانيولي.

I just realized that you can use it with the present tense (without بـ), and not just the participle.


----------



## clevermizo

elroy said:


> Yes: لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت أعرف اسبانيولي.
> 
> I just realized that you can use it with the present tense (without بـ), and not just the participle.



Can you also then say: لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت عارف اسبانيولي?

If not, what is the difference? A perfect/imperfect one? (I.e., an action that was already completed, versus a state of affairs that was already in place.)


----------



## elroy

clevermizo said:


> Can you also then say: لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت عارف اسبانيولي?


 No, because you would never say أنا عارف اسبانيولي; you would say أنا بعرف اسبانيولي.

You could, however, say كنت صرت *مِتْعَلّم *اسبانيولي.

Both describe the state you were in; one is "knowing Spanish," and the other is "having learned Spanish."  Basically, if the English equivalent contains the word "having" (i.e. if it expresses the idea of _having done _something), you use the participle in Arabic, whereas if it's just a reference to your state (without an explicit reference to something you've _done_), you use the present tense (without _b-_) in Arabic.

Another example would be كنت صرت أعزف بيانو ("I could already play the piano"; your state is "being able to play the piano").  كنت صرت *عازف *بيانو would be "I was already a _pianist_" or "I had already played the piano," depending on the context.


----------



## clevermizo

elroy said:


> Basically, if the English equivalent contains the word "having" (i.e. if it expresses the idea of _having done _something), you use the participle in Arabic, whereas if it's just a reference to your state (without an explicit reference to something you've _done_), you use the present tense (without _b-_) in Arabic.



Ok, this is what I surmised. Thanks.


----------



## Sidjanga

Hi again,





elroy said:


> Yes: لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت أعرف اسبانيولي.
> 
> I just realized that you can use it with the present tense (without بـ), and not just the participle.


Does that also work for the present, i.e. can I use the same construction if I want to say

_Most foreign students who come to Germany to study here already speak German_. ?

So can I say معظم الطلاب الأجانب إللي بيجوا على ألمانيا عشان(؟) يدرسوا في الجامعة هون صاروا يعرفوا ألماني. ?


----------



## elroy

sidjanga said:


> _most foreign students who come to germany to study here already speak german_. ?


 أكترية الطلاب الأجانب إللي بيجوا على ألمانيا عشان يدرسوا هون بكونوا صاروا يعرفوا ألماني


----------



## ArbEngEsp

sidjanga said:


> hi again,does that also work for the present, i.e. Can i use the same construction if i want to say
> 
> _most foreign students who come to germany to study here already speak german_. ?
> 
> So can i say معظم الطلاب الأجانب إللي بيجوا على ألمانيا عشان(؟) يدرسوا في الجامعة هون صاروا يعرفوا ألماني. ?




معظم الطلاب الأجانب الذين يأتون للدراسة في ألمانيا يتحدثون الألمانية مسبقاً​  ​ و تحياتي للجميع، نقاشٌ راقٍ و مفيد


----------



## Sidjanga

Hi again, (and welcome to the forum, ArbEngEsp!)





elroy said:


> لما رحت على اسبانيا أول مرة كنت صرت أعرف اسبانيولي.





elroy said:


> أكترية الطلاب الأجانب إللي بيجوا على ألمانيا عشان يدرسوا هون بكونوا صاروا يعرفوا ألماني


In these cases, where you "temporally compare something with another event" that's explicitely mentioned (similar to the first part of this post in the thread بكون/يكون + ماضي), could I also use صار in the participle instead of the ماضي here?

Also, would it make sense to want to understand صار litterally here, and be it just a bit?


----------



## إسكندراني

I believe that in Egypt we can replace 'already' in all circumstances I can think of;
I've already done it | خلاص عملتها
You've come already? | لحقت توصل؟
He was already tired then | وكان خلاص تعب وقتيها
etc.


----------



## Sidjanga

إسكندراني said:


> I believe that in Egypt we can replace 'already' in all circumstances I can think of;
> I've already done it | خلاص عملتها
> You've come already? | لحقت توصل؟
> He was already tired then | وكان خلاص تعب وقتيها.


So it seems you generally use خلاص, but not always (like in your second sentence), and خلاص is invariable, i.e. you use the same form independently of the person, correct?


----------



## cherine

Yes, khalaaS is invariable, it's like an adverb.


----------



## dakaplo

I have also seen the word musbaqan to mean already.  Is this also acceptable?


----------



## إسكندراني

مسبقاً means 'before that' so yes.


----------



## dakaplo

Thanks.  I wanted to check that Rosetta Stone wasn't teaching me non-standard words.  (It tends to do that sometimes)

Does musbaqan work in all cases, or are there times where qad or another alternative would be better?


----------



## إسكندراني

How is قد an alternative?
Also مسبقاً is quite rarely used in dialects though it is readily understood.
Please give sentences where you'd like to express 'already'.


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## dakaplo

Thanks for the heads up that people don't usually use musbaqan.

Looking back at this thread, it seemed that qad was at least one word for already.  Of course, it looks like it's a rather hard to translate concept (hence the long thread).

The types of sentences I'd like to be able to say are "I already know that./That's happening already." and "That already happened." i.e. present and past tense.  Presumably "ana a3rif hadha musbaqan" would not make sense?

I suppose I'm just trying to synthesize all the debate from this thread into some sort of rule of thumb, which may be a daunting task.


----------



## إسكندراني

قد is fine for the sentence you mentioned (this has already happened), but I would always follow it up at the end of the sentence with a بالفعل / مسبقاً though that is not required in Arabic; it just makes it sound better to me. But it is non-existent in most dialects and has also got an additional meaning of 'maybe' so be cautious with it. Your sentence with مسبقاً is fine. Sounds like film subtitles


----------



## dakaplo

Alright.  Thanks for the clarification.


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## mini91

[Moderator note: This thread about Algerian usage is now merged with the general one for all dialects. Cherine]

I would like to know how Algerians say the word '*already*' within sentences for e.g
I've done it _already_
I'm _already_ going

Shukran


----------



## إسكندراني

I think in some areas they say like Moroccans صافي (saafii), it's roughly equivalent in usage to خلاص elsewhere.


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## mini91

So if I wanted to say _I'm already going_ it would be _'rani saafi raye7' _or '_rani raye7 saafi'? _Thank you


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## lanature93

You can translate it in Arabic?
If I understood the meaning in English, I would say :
" Aslan rani raye7 " ! Usuallly, we use " déjà ", it's a word in french.. so it gives :  " déjà rani raye7 "


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## Xence

mini91 said:


> So if I wanted to say _I'm already going_ it would be _'rani saafi raye7' _or '_rani raye7 saafi'? _



No. I am not aware of such usage.
As lanature93 said, the French "déjà" is the most used word, if not the only one.

I've done it _already = _dertou / dert-ha_ déjà_
I'm _already_ going = rani _déjà _raye7


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## yields

Moderator's note: Thread merged with previous thread on same topic (scope includes both standard and colloquial forms). Please remember to search through prior threads before posting.

Any precise and widely used expression ? already in classical can't be coined with a single word. Any help ?


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## arbelyoni

In EA, one of the meanings of بقى /'baʔa/ is already.


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## TheRiLi

you know ,, in Algeria they use the French term , "deja" ,, and in some region where they still use classical Arabic the term is : أصلا

generally this is very rare concept


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## tr463

In Egypt that just say "already"


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## yields

hahaha oh god. "Déja" is the reason I am asking actually as it is totally ingrained in Moroccan (Algerian and Tunisian too) now.


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## Kinan

Already is one of the words which you can't find equivalent in Arabic, although some people use اصلا but it's not MSA word.


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## Idris

أصلاً is not MSA?!?


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## Kinan

Not when it means "already", but some writers and authors started using it to mean "already" recently.


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## Schem

I agree with Kinan. That said, both English "already" and أصلًا are used in SA.


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## TheRiLi

already in MSA means : فعلاّ / بالفعلِ

أكلتهُ بالفعل = I already ate it :/

all - ready 



Google said:


> nounاستعدادready, readiness, willingness, preparedness, preparation, predispositionadjectiveمستعدready, prepared, willing, fit, pat, all setمهيأready, prepared, all setمعدprepared, intended, contagious, infectious, designed, readyحاضرpresent, ready, current, present-dayمتأهبreadyمتوفرavailable, ready, obtainableفي متناول اليدready, reachableسريعfast, quick, rapid, swift, speedy, readyمتحفزprepared, all set, readyرشيقgraceful, agile, zippy, limber, nimble, readyverbاستعدready, prepare, get ready, stand by, brace, groomأعدready, dish, dress, draft, plan, disposeتهيأreadyهيأprepare, predestine, get, make, ready, gearأعد حضرgroom, concoct, give one's word, prepare, ready, promise



already = بكل جاهزية / على أتم إستعداد / بأتم التحضير

so it means : محضّر مسبقاً ، جاهز فعلاً ، مستعد فعلاً

already + verb = مسبقاً + الفعل / الفعل + فعلاً


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## Kinan

If someone tells me أكلته بالفعل, the first thing comes to my mind is "I really ate it".


----------



## TheRiLi

Kinan said:


> If someone tells me أكلته بالفعل, the first thing comes to my mind is "I really ate it".


what about: أكلته حقا ?


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## Kinan

The same meaning.
If someone tells me to eat something that I already ate, I would answer in my dialect with :
أكلته و خلصت


----------



## Idris

Schem said:


> I agree with Kinan. That said, both English "already" and أصلًا are used in SA.



You mean in Saudi Arabia? Are you sure that they use "already"? In what part of Saudia they do that?


----------



## rayloom

The classical word is قد. Which is also used in Saudi.
قد أكلته.
Another word commonly used is خلاص.


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## Schem

Idris said:


> You mean in Saudi Arabia? Are you sure that they use "already"? In what part of Saudia they do that?



It's used by the younger generation all over.


----------



## samatar

في فلسطين هنالك إمكانيّتان، على الأقل:


- "صُرت رايح وراجع" - I've already gone and come back
- "بدكاش تُسكُت عاد؟" - Will you shut up already?


​


----------



## yields

Interesting thanks. أصلًا does fit the best, although etymologically it is the translation of "originally" I guess but yeah, works. 
@Rayloom : can you use خلاص in a sentence ?
@Samatar :
 في المغرب نستعمل "عاد" للإشارة لوقت أداء الفعل. مثال :
 "عاد جئت" - I just came back.
"عاد دْخْلْت للدار" - I just came back home.


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## WadiH

Schem said:


> It's used by the younger generation all over.



I think we need to be careful not to generalize from a relatively small urban elite over to the rest of the country.  Most young people do not use "already" though some certainly do.  Most people use قد attached to a pronoun (قدني قده قيده etc.), though in our dialect قد always stands alone.


----------



## rayloom

yields said:


> @Rayloom : can you use خلاص in a sentence ?



خلاص أكلت
أكلت خلاص
خلاص! (as an interjection meaning "already!" or "déjà!")
خلاص! (also as an interjection meaning "enough!" or "ça suffit!")


----------



## cherine

In Egyptian Arabic, there's already, and there's also خلاص like:
- تعالى كُل معانا
- لا أنا خلاص أكلت

or:
-مش حتذاكر بقى؟
- لا أنا ذاكرت خلاص/ أنا خلاص ذاكرت


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## إسكندراني

Also, one very useful expression to know in any language is 'alright already!' - which in Egyptian is بسّ بأة or خلاص بأة


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## TheRiLi

I don't know what can make this subject alive all this years, but you have to realize that even in English, this term is ridicule (from my point of view),

in English not like in Arabic, you can generate new words by combine two , three, four , words together, it's like "some-how", "to-day", "new-born" ... etc ...

one of those is : "Already"



TheRiLi said:


> already = بكل جاهزية / على أتم إستعداد / بأتم التحضير
> 
> so it means : محضّر مسبقاً ، جاهز فعلاً ، مستعد فعلاً
> 
> already + verb = مسبقاً + الفعل / الفعل + فعلاً



so, you can't find a standard Arabic term that fit an English slang :/

even Arabic slang you can't find a simple one equivalent word in SA nor in MSA --'

it will be cool, if you translate each one in it's context, 

I am already done = لقد إنتهيت بالفعل

for those who said that : بالفعل is reserved for "Indeed", so what "حقاً" means?

it's all over --' (at least for me  )


----------



## Abu Talha

Can we use من قبلُ ?

تعال كل معنا
لا فقد أكلتُ من قبلُ.

Also سَبَقَ أن, e.g.,

ألا تذاكر؟
قد سبق أن ذاكرتُ.

If these are idiomatic, aren't they good native ways to express "already" beyond قد (in Standard Arabic)?


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## إسكندراني

These mean 'before'; you've eaten before, in the past, during your life so far. Not necessarily recently.


----------



## Ibn Nacer

Abu Talha said:


> Can we use من قبلُ ?


There are a few examples here: J'ai déjà mangé...


----------



## suma7

[Moderator note: This thread about Hejazi/Najdi usage is now merged with the general one for all dialects. Cherine]

Hello everyone!

Here's a question:

In the Hejazi or Najdi dialect (or Arabic in general), is there a word for "already?"

For example:

1) I already knew that.
2) I already slept today.
3) Did you already graduate?
4) Did you already know this from before?


*I think people just say "خلصت" right?


----------



## Schem

We use خلقة khelgeh in my dialect (and others, from observation) for some of the uses of 'already' in English. For other contexts, the meaning could be expressed differently. Here's how I would translate your examples:

1) خلقة داري/أدري khelgeh dari/adri
2) خلقة نايم اليوم khelgeh nayem alyaum
3) أمداك تخرجت؟ amdak tekharrajt?
4) خلقة داري/تدري أنت من قبل؟ khelgeh dari/tadri ant min gabel?

As you can see, it can replace 'already' in the majority of cases but not all. Also, as you can see too, it's normally followed by the past participle (dari, nayem..) instead of a conjugated verb.


----------



## Arabic_Police_999

Schem said:


> We use خلقة khelgeh in my dialect (and others, from observation) for some of the uses of 'already' in English. For other contexts, the meaning could be expressed differently. Here's how I would translate your examples:
> 
> 1) *خلقة داري/أدري* khelgeh dari/adri
> 2) *خلقة نايم اليوم* khelgeh nayem alyaum
> 3) أمداك تخرجت؟ amdak tekharrajt?
> 4) *خلقة داري*/تدري أنت من قبل؟ khelgeh dari/tadri ant min gabel?
> 
> As you can see, it can replace 'already' in the majority of cases but not all. Also, as you can see too, it's normally followed by the past participle (dari, nayem..) instead of a conjugated verb.



oh hi, I'm from Riyadh, the capital city which is in Najd, these are a very strange usage of the word خلقه in riyadh we say *khelgah *but you say * khelgeh *( I recognize that as a QaSimi feature)
and I wouldn't say it to someone who have a higher status who I don't know well especially "*خلقة نايم اليوم" *
are you oroginally from QaSim
hmm, I don't think "Did you already graduate" correspond to = أمداك تخرجت؟ amdak tekharrajt? 

coming to suma7 question


> In the Hejazi or Najdi dialect (or Arabic in general), is there a word for "already?"


"already" could mean more than one thing in English, 
and a small sentence isn't enough to be sure of the intended meaning,
however 

1) I already knew that. (as in the case someone tells you about something you knew before) أصلّا أعرف *aSlan a'A'ref*
2) I already slept today. (if someone asked me do you want to sleep) لا خلاص نمت اليوم *laa khalaaS nemt elyoam* 
3) Did you already graduate?  تخرجت ولا لسا  *tekharrajt wallaa lessaa *orخلاص تخرجت/ تخرجت خلاص* khalaaS **tekharrajt *
4) Did you already know this from before?  كنت تعرف من قبل/أول *kint ta'a'ref min gabel/awwal* 
or إنت تدري من قبل/أول or the one proposed by Schem 
 "تدري أنت من قبل" but different pronunciation *tadri ent min gabel/ awwal 
*
there is another word you can use
do you want to eat? oh No thanks, I've already eaten
لا شكرا توني ماكل laa shukran tawni maakel


----------



## Schem

ما فهمت سؤالك بالضبط. إيه أنا من عنيزة لكن غير نطق الهاء وش لاحظت شي غريب؟


Arabic_Police_999 said:


> 1) I already knew that. (as in the case someone tells you about something you knew before) أصلّا أعرف *aSlan a'A'ref*
> 2) I already slept today. (if someone asked me do you want to sleep) لا خلاص نمت اليوم *laa khalaaS nemt elyoam*
> 3) Did you already graduate? تخرجت ولا لسا *tekharrajt wallaa lessaa *orخلاص تخرجت/ تخرجت خلاص* khalaaS **tekharrajt *
> 4) Did you already know this from before? كنت تعرف من قبل/أول *kint ta'a'ref min gabel/awwal*
> or إنت تدري من قبل/أول or the one proposed by Schem
> "تدري أنت من قبل" but different pronunciation *tadri ent min gabel/ awwal *



I suppose 1, 2, and 4 can be expressed in a number of ways but your translation for 3 doesn't really capture the English meaning. The way the question is phrased implies a sense of surprise (like one didn't expect the addressee to have graduated so quickly) which should explain to you my use of يمدي. As for تو taww and its derivatives, yes they can be used to translate some instances where English 'already' is used but not all. تو taww and its variations usually translate to 'just' in English as in I just finished doing this or that.


----------



## WadiH

The traditional equivalent of "already" in most situations is قد (_gid_​).


----------



## elroy

I just wanted to share an example of how "already" can be expressed in Arabic in certain contexts:

It's from وردة's song أكدب عليك.  The line is:

والقاك يا حبيبي سابقني هناك

The context is the dates she used to go on with her lover.  She would get to a date and find her lover already there.

I think this line translates very nicely as "And I would find you, my love, *already* there." 

In Palestinian Arabic we could use either this structure or وألقيك يا حبيبي *صرت* هناك.

This examples shows that even dialects that don't have a systematic way to express "already" have other tools at their disposal to express the concept if it's necessary to do so. 

I'm curious about what options other dialects have to express the meaning of this line.


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## Hemza

إسكندراني said:


> I think in some areas they say like Moroccans صافي (saafii), it's roughly equivalent in usage to خلاص elsewhere.


Hello,
"صافي " doesn't mean already in Morocco, it rather means "it's clear", like "واضح" or "خلاص" according to the context (though both other words are also used). For "already", some people use the French word "déjà" or "أصلا". Otherwise, we say:

عد داب
داب

Both expressions mean "I've just" but it can also implie something we "already done".

Saharians might use the same expressions as Mauritanians, but I don't know them. For sure, it's different from Northern Morocco.


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## WannaBFluent

Hi, I've got some questions about Syrian Arabic. 

First, in Syria, they use :

1. *sabaq w- + perfect verb* (sabaq is uninflected)
Of course, it implies a past time reference, the action has already been done in the past.
*sabaq w-qéltéllak, mu heek ?* - I've already told you, haven't I ?

2. *byésboq w- + imperfect verb* (byésboq is inflected this time)
This time, it implies a future time reference.
*šu btésboq w-bétkuun @hniik waq@t ma 2uuSal 2ana ?* - So you'll be already there by the time I arrive ?

3. *Saar *(inflected form)
It implies a present time reference.
*Saaret és-saa3a xamse* - It's already five o'clock (now).

To use it as a past time reference, we add *kaan*.
*kaan Saar ba3d néSS él-leel lamma rjé3na 3al-beet* - It was already after midnight when we came back home.

And I guess, to use it as a future time reference, we add *bikuun*.
*bikuun Saar ba3d néSS él-leel lamma ra7 nérja3 3al-beet* - It will be already after midnight when we'll come back home.
_(FOR THIS ONE, I'M NOT SURE, CONFIRMATION IS WELCOMED)_

4. *faat él-waq@t* 'time has passed'
Used as a past time reference to mean 'it's too late already'.
*xaayéf-lak ykuun faat él-waq@t* - I'm afraid for you that it's too late already

And I guess, we can just inflect the verb *faat *to refer to other times *(but you lose the meaning of 'already' OF COURSE)*.
*quul-la qabl ma yfuut él-waq@t* - Tell her before it's too late
_(FOR THIS ONE TOO, I'M NOT SURE, CONFIRMATION IS WELCOMED)
_
And I guess we could use *ra7 yfuut* in the context of 'If you wait too much, it will be too late' _(if you got the Arabic, please provide)_.

I've seen *Iraqi *people even say *faat wakit* (without definite article), do you know if we can say *faat waq@t* in Syrian too with the same meaning?

They also say *gabul ma yfuut 3aleek il-wakit*, what is the *3aleek *in this context? Something like 'before it's too late FOR YOU' ?
Could I've say: *xaayéf ykuun faat 3aleek él-waq@t* as a option of *xaayéf-lak ykuun faat él-waq@t* ?

And finally, *Iraqi *also use *b-wakt il- + subjunctive verb*.
*la3ad ra7 itkuun ihnaak ib-wakt il-2ooSal ?* - So you'll be already there by the time I arrive ?
Is this construction possible in Syria? *b-waq@t l- + subj*?


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## Mahaodeh

I'm not sure about the examples above (1, 2, 3 and 4), are you looking for confirmation or just telling us what you know? Somehow I feel it's the latter.



WannaBFluent said:


> And I guess, to use it as a future time reference, we add *bikuun*.
> *bikuun Saar ba3d néSS él-leel lamma ra7 nérja3 3al-beet* - It will be already after midnight when we'll come back home.
> _(FOR THIS ONE, I'M NOT SURE, CONFIRMATION IS WELCOMED)_



I can't be 100% sure for Syrian, but I don't think it's very idiomatic this way. In PA you would say:

*bikuun Saar ba3d néSS él-leel 3bein ma nérja3 3al-beet* - Or 
*bitkuun Saart ba3d néSS él-leel 3bein ma nérja3 3al-beet* 

I'm guess in gin Syrian Arabic it's the same, or maybe they just say *bein ma* like they do in Iraq.
​


WannaBFluent said:


> And I guess, we can just inflect the verb *faat *to refer to other times *(but you lose the meaning of 'already' OF COURSE)*.
> *quul-la qabl ma yfuut él-waq@t* - Tell her before it's too late
> _(FOR THIS ONE TOO, I'M NOT SURE, CONFIRMATION IS WELCOMED)_



This one is correct. You can inflect faat.



WannaBFluent said:


> And I guess we could use *ra7 yfuut* in the context of 'If you wait too much, it will be too late' _(if you got the Arabic, please provide)_.



Maybe something like: *Iza ma Tli3na halla2 ra7 yfuut al wa2it 3leina* - if we didn't go out now it would be too late for us / we would be late.



WannaBFluent said:


> I've seen *Iraqi *people even say *faat wakit* (without definite article),



Without the definite article it does not mean 'it too late', it means 'time has passed'. Example: *faat wakit Tweel w-i7na gaa3deen ma da nsawi shee* - a long time passed while we were sitting doing nothing.

The same thing applies to Palestinian Arabic (*faat wa2t Tweel w-i7na 2aa3deen ma bni3mil ishi*), so I think it also applies to Syrian Arabic (probably: *faat wa2t Tweel w-i7na 7aa3deen ma bni3mil shee*).



WannaBFluent said:


> They also say *gabul ma yfuut 3aleek il-wakit*, what is the *3aleek *in this context? Something like 'before it's too late FOR YOU' ?



OK, technically, *yfuut il wakit* is 'the time will pass/is passing', which implies 'too late' but does not necessarily mean 'too late', sometimes it means just 'late'. *yfuut 3aleik il wakit* means "before you are late" or 'before ;you are too late'. You can say that it's similar to 'before it's too late for you' but I feel that these are not identical. 
Example of use: *roo7 3al shughul gabul ma yfuut 3aleik il-wakit* - go to work before you are late. Here it's not 'too late' because you can still start work late. I think the same applies to Syrian Arabic.



WannaBFluent said:


> And finally, *Iraqi *also use *b-wakt il- + subjunctive verb*.
> *la3ad ra7 itkuun ihnaak ib-wakt il-2ooSal ?* - So you'll be already there by the time I arrive ?
> Is this construction possible in Syria? *b-waq@t l- + subj*?



I'd translate the sentence above without 'already' as it doesn't imply that the other person (the one spoken to) was away or not it only asks whether he will be there upon arrival of the speaker. So I would go for: then will you be there at the time I arrive?

In IA, wakt il is a contraction of wakt illi, I'm not sure the same contraction is used in Syrian Arabic, at least I don't recall hearing it from Levantine dialects in general. I think that they would retain the illi (dialect for الذي والتي) I believe it would be: *fil wa2t illi 2uuSal fii*. Whether the contraction is used or not, the most likely expression you would hear is: *ra7 itkuun hunaak wa2t ma 2uuSal*?

Also, b-wakit is also a contraction of bill-wakit and both are used interchangeably.
The baa' is commonly used instead of the fii used in standard Arabic in many contexts - I dare say most. This doesn't happen in Levantine dialects so you would probably still use fi as I showed above.

By the way, the sentence you gave, *la3ad ra7 itkuun ihnaak ib-wakt il-2ooSal? *is not 100% correct. It would either be: *ra7 itkuun ihnaak wakit ma 2ooSal?* or *ra7 itkuun ihnaak bil-wakt illi 2ooSal bii / b-wakt il 2ooSal bii?* Don't get me wrong, b-wakt il-2ooSal is used, but not so much in this context, maybe more like *b-wakt il 2ooSal ashoofak* - when I arrive I will see you as opposed to *wakt ma 2ooSal ashoofak* - whenever I arrive I will see you.


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## WannaBFluent

Mahaodeh said:


> I'm not sure about the examples above (1, 2, 3 and 4), are you looking for confirmation or just telling us what you know? Somehow I feel it's the latter.


Yes, it's just what I found in Stowasser's dictionary for people who will pass by this topic and to sum up what have been said for Syrian Arabic. 



Mahaodeh said:


> I can't be 100% sure for Syrian, but I don't think it's very idiomatic this way. In PA you would say:
> 
> *bikuun Saar ba3d néSS él-leel 3bein ma nérja3 3al-beet* - Or
> *bitkuun Saart ba3d néSS él-leel 3bein ma nérja3 3al-beet*
> ​I'm guess in gin Syrian Arabic it's the same, or maybe they just say *bein ma* like they do in Iraq.


Oh, you mean that lamma wouldn't be use with a future time reference?
And wait, what is *bein*? 'between' like *been*? I've never come across *been ma*, and what is *3bein ma*?
And why is the feminine form possible is this context? as a reference to *és-saa3a*?

edit: I need more time to analyse the rest of your very helpful post, some questions might pop later


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## analeeh

In Syrian the equivalent is _labeen ma_. It usually means 'until' or 'by'.


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## WannaBFluent

analeeh said:


> In Syrian the equivalent is _labeen ma_. It usually means 'until' or 'by'.


Oh ok, thanks.



WannaBFluent said:


> *quul-la qabl ma yfuut él-waq@t* - Tell her before it's too late
> _(FOR THIS ONE TOO, I'M NOT SURE, CONFIRMATION IS WELCOMED)_


By the way, would it be possible to say:
*quul-la qabl ma ykuun faat él-waq@t* ?
And what would be the difference ?


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## Mahaodeh

analeeh said:


> In Syrian the equivalent is _labeen ma_.



Oh, OK, thanks.



WannaBFluent said:


> Oh, you mean that lamma wouldn't be use with a future time reference?



I don't mean you can't use it with future reference, I mean that in this particular context the word 3bein ma/labein ma/bein ma is usually used.



WannaBFluent said:


> And wait, what is *bein*? 'between' like *been*?



OK, I get confused with using English vowels because they are pronounced very differently in different words. I mean the long vowel in the English word 'been' is nothing like the vowel I'm trying to express; however, yes, it is the word that in other contexts means 'between'.




WannaBFluent said:


> I've never come across *been ma*



Well, now you have . Maybe it's not so common in Syrian Arabic and labeen ma is more common. I believe it originates from classical Arabic بينما and it means 'while' or 'by the time' or 'at the same time' or 'then' or 'by' (all in terms of time).



WannaBFluent said:


> and what is *3bein ma*?



It's the Palestinian Arabic version, the 3ain is a contraction of 3ala, sometimes you might even hear 3ala bein ma but the contraction is more common. I can't be sure, but I think the laam in the Syrian version is also a contraction of 3ala.

In the Iraqi Arabic version there is no contraction, it's either bein ma, 3ala ma.




WannaBFluent said:


> And why is the feminine form possible is this context? as a reference to *és-saa3a*?



Very possible, equally possible is as reference to 'iddnya' الدنيا because we say iddinya leil / iddinya nhaar.​


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