# Is naturism normal? Ist FKK (Freikörperkultur) normal?



## Hutschi

Hi

is naturism normal in your country? (practice of going naked in the belief that their are physical and/or social benefits to nudity, especially at a beach?)  Ist FKK (Freikörperkultur) normal in Ihrer Gegend?


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## Sallyb36

No, it's usually too cold here to go naked.  I think there are some beaches on the south coast that are nudist beaches but I don't think that the majority of British people use them.


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## badgrammar

I would not say it is the norm here in France, although there are some "naturist" camps here and there, and vacation spots like Cap d'Agde in the South of France with nudist hotels and camp sites, etc.  But that's really for those who want to go naked all the time, day in, day out.

What is far more common is that you can go topless on most beaches, even nude on certain parts of the beach (usually a good distance from the boardwalk or from access roads).  

Personally, it's not my bag, but I do have some friends that go with the kids once a year to a kind of naturist hotel for families.  One of them is Swiss German, so maybe she has that in her cultural background.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

No, no, and NO!  Going around naked is simply not done in my country.  The only women who dare to be topless on a beach are tourists who don't really get our culture yet.

There have been several attempts to create nudist beaches here, but the idea never catched on -we're too pervert.


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## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> is naturism normal in your country? (practice of going naked in the belief that their are physical and/or social benefits to nudity, especially at a beach?)


There are several issues hidden in this apparently simple question. Let me try to isolate them:

1) Is the practice of "going naked" normal in your country?

Germany: No, not at all. Nobody can walk around in a city or even through a forest being completely naked. It is prohibited by law. There is not even a minority request to do so.

2) Are the nudist beaches?

Germany: Yes, we have some nudist beaches. Topless bathing is rarely prohibited and if it is restraining from doing so is almost never enforced. Real nudist bathing varies between accepted, frowned upon and prohibited depending on the particular beach. On very many beaches you will observe mixed bathing, i.e. each person selecting clothed, topless or nude as he or she desires. There are some free-range beaches where everyone just does what he likes anyway. Many young kids (1-7) swim naked even on "clothed beaches" without problems. The former East Germany is much more relaxed than the former West Germany, the South generelly more strict than the North.

3) Are there social or physical benefits of going naked?

I do not see any physical benefits of swimming naked. I doubt there are serious social benefits either way. Swimming naked might be practical, can be enjoyable and feels normal to many people. I never understood why nudism is supposed to have a political, ideological or social component. It surely has a cultural and personal component, though.

Kajjo


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## cirrus

Sorry Kajjo but when you say bathing naked has no benefits you have make me laugh. Bathing in BE means having a bath as opposed to having a swim.  

I can see lots of benefits of bathing naked rather than clothed - just imagine the mess it would make of getting ready for your day if you needed two changes of clothes just to start the day, one for the shower and one for the world. 

As for here in the UK people are rather uptight about nakedness.  Nakedness is pften associated here with lack of dignity, either that or sex as opposed to how we look without clothes.  

For insight you need do nothing more than look at people trying to change into swimming things on an English beach - the truly pathetic sight of someone trying to change while holding a towel around them.   As for children bathing naked this is generally viewed as fine up until kids are about three, four tops.


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## CrazyArcher

Absolutely not, although some individuals enjoy skinny dipping in the sea at night, or in the daylight at some places with no people. This is of course an exception and not a rule, but I guess there are people like that all over teh world where the weather permits


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## Outsider

There are some nudist beaches and I think (because I once chanced upon a Portuguese naturist forum on the net) that there are naturist communities. But it's not the rule by any means. We are not as in touch with nature as the Germans.


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## .   1

Aussies pretty much don't care.
Just about everybody I know is a skinny dipper.
There are all sorts of naked traditions down here.
A person who is a member of a sporting team is required to streak down the length of the home ground at the end of the season if that player has not scored a point during the season.

Mooning authority is considered OK so long as you don't get caught by The Man.

There are unofficial nude beaches in many towns including inland and outback towns where it will be a river bend or swimming hole that is known to be a skinny dipping spot.

Breasts are acceptable on just about any beach and being flossed by a barely visible G string is enough to ensure no offence is detected.
I ride past a hairdresser's salon each day to see the sign 'XXX Brazilian Waxes' Ouch.  That pain must be for display at some time.

Aussies seem to be rather laid back about skin but we don't go much for PDAs in general but you should see a couple of blokes meeting on a nude beach.  They stand so far apart for the handshake that one is almost in the next state.  women do the quick hug but bend forward like ducks and you could drive a cop car between their hips as their chests (not breasts)briefly touch.

Nudity is not utterly linked to fornication down here.

.,,


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## Kajjo

cirrus said:


> Bathing in BE means having a bath as opposed to having a swim.  I can see lots of benefits of bathing naked rather than clothed - just imagine the mess it would make of getting ready for your day if you needed two changes of clothes just to start the day, one for the shower and one for the world.


Sorry. I did not know the exact definition of bathing. A false friend, I suppose. You are right, I agree that _taking a bath_ without clothes offers several benefits.



> For insight you need do nothing more than look at people trying to change into swimming things on an English beach - the truly pathetic sight of someone trying to change while holding a towel around them.


The same in the US as far as I could observe. We just quickly changed into swimming trunks without much ado, but I suppose we were risking a lot, having read this stimulating thread!

Kajjo


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## alexacohen

Hi:
Here in Spain we have both nudist beaches and nudist resorts. Of course no one can walk with no clothes on to the minimarket without being arrested by the police, except on nudist resorts. On nudist resort and beaches the only garments allowed are called the "threekini": one towel, one pair of flipflops and one pair of sunglasses.
For those of us who have skin problems to have a place where we can sunbath with no clothes on is important.
Nude breasts are OK in almost every beach, and for small kids to be nude in the beach is OK too.
I can't say about the physical benefits of taking a swim in the nude, but it does feel wonderful.
Alexa


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## tvdxer

Hutschi said:


> Hi
> 
> is naturism normal in your country? (practice of going naked in the belief that their are physical and/or social benefits to nudity, especially at a beach?)  Ist FKK (Freikörperkultur) normal in Ihrer Gegend?



No, not particularly.  I wouldn't say a nudist would be shunned here, but they would be looked at as weird by most.  Nudists / naturists (as in many other countries) have to go to specially-designated nudist beaches or colonies, or swimming holes where there aren't other people around (not hard to find) to enjoy their "lifestyle".  

"Skinny-dipping" in isolated places is not unusual, however, but it doesn't really have anything to do with the whole "naturist" movement.  

Remember that nudity has a very sexual connotation in American culture, probably more so than in Europe.


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## alexacohen

CrazyArcher said:


> Absolutely not, although some individuals enjoy skinny dipping in the sea at night, or in the daylight at some places with no people. This is of course an exception and not a rule, but I guess there are people like that all over teh world where the weather permits


You have at least one nudist resort, though. The Ein Gedi Kibbutz near the Dead Sea has beaches (walled) where people sunbath in the nude, and well, I would not say swim, but certainly float in the Dead Sea totally naked.
The beaches are restricted to people with skin problems. 
Alexa


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## übermönch

Hier im Dorfe mitten im Nirgendwo am Rande der Welt in Hessen schwankt die öffentliche Meinung zu FKK von eher unsittlich zugar skandalös. Auf der Frontseite der Lokalzeitung wird des öfteren von gesuchten verbrecherlichen Exhibitionisten berichtet welche unsere hochmoralische Gegend zu verunreinigen versuchen 



			
				Kajjo said:
			
		

> It is prohibited by law.


Curiously the law in question applies only to males. Female nudity is apparently very appreciated


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## .   1

übermönch said:


> Curiously the law in question applies only to males. Female nudity is apparently very appreciated


Which gender writes such laws?
Does this mean that men are offended by naked male bodies but not naked female bodies or that women are offended by naked male bodies but not naked female bodies in Germany?

.,,


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## Etcetera

Hutschi said:


> is naturism normal in your country? (practice of going naked in the belief that their are physical and/or social benefits to nudity, especially at a beach?)


No. It's seen as something really strange. 
I've heard of nudist beaches in Moscow, and there were articles about the people who frequent such beaches, but the articles were written in pretty ironic tone. 
I've never heard of nudist beaches in or around St Petersburg (yes, we do have beaches!), and I've never seen any girl or woman swimming topless. I don't know if there are any special laws prohibiting nudist swimming, but such laws aren't really needed.
All in all, it's been long known that sunbathing topless is simply dangerous.


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## Dr. Quizá

alexacohen said:


> Hi:
> Here in Spain we have both nudist beaches and nudist resorts. Of course no one can walk with no clothes on to the minimarket without being arrested by the police, except on nudist resorts.
> Alexa



Actually there isn't such a law.


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## Kajjo

. said:


> Which gender writes such laws? Does this mean that men are offended by naked male bodies but not naked female bodies or that women are offended by naked male bodies but not naked female bodies in Germany?


Nonsense, the law is gender-neutral of course. Übermönch was just joking, I am sure. However, I agree that naked men are generally viewed as more offensive than naked women. Maybe because naked breasts are in itself nothing special anymore and not prohibited and an entirely naked woman has not much more "offensive parts clearly visible" than a topless woman. Weird discussion, though.

Kajjo


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## übermönch

Kajjo said:


> Nonsense, the law is gender-neutral of course. Übermönch was just joking, I am sure. However, I agree that naked men are generally viewed as more offensive than naked women. Maybe because naked breasts are in itself nothing special anymore and not prohibited and an entirely naked woman has not much more "offensive parts clearly visible" than a topless woman. Weird discussion, though.
> 
> Kajjo


Unfortunately I was not joking; there are several instances of gender inequality in german law. Blame the Christian Democrats. Now let me quote StGb §183


> (1) *Ein Mann*, der eine andere Person durch eine exhibitionistische Handlung belästigt, wird mit Freiheitsstrafe *bis zu einem Jahr *oder mit Geldstrafe bestraft.
> (2) Die Tat wird nur auf Antrag verfolgt, es sei denn, daß die Strafverfolgungsbehörde wegen des besonderen öffentlichen Interesses an der Strafverfolgung ein Einschreiten von Amts wegen für geboten hält.
> (3) Das Gericht kann die Vollstreckung einer Freiheitsstrafe auch dann zur Bewährung aussetzen, wenn zu erwarten ist, daß der Täter erst nach einer längeren Heilbehandlung keine exhibitionistischen Handlungen mehr vornehmen wird.
> (4) Absatz 3 gilt auch, wenn ein Mann oder eine Frau wegen einer exhibitionistischen Handlung
> 1.nach einer anderen Vorschrift, die im Höchstmaß Freiheitsstrafe bis zu einem Jahr oder Geldstrafe androht, oder
> 2.nach § 174 Abs. 2 Nr. 1 oder § 176 Abs. 3 Nr. 1
> bestraft wird.


http://bundesrecht.juris.de/stgb/__183.html



A bold attempt at translation
(1) *A man *who troubles/disgusts other people with an act of exhibitionism, is punished with *up to one year* or is fined.
(2) The act is only persecuted on request, unless the prosecution authorities believe an official involvement to be appropriate because of extraordinary public interest in prosecution.
(3) The court can ... waaah ... the juristical language is incredibly complicated... to put it in simple words, the enjailment can be replaced with probation if it can be supposed that the convicted one will do it again after a long period of medical treatment.
(4) Paragraph 3 is also put in power, if a man or a woman is punished because of an act of exhibitionism,
1.because of another directive threatening with up to one year or a fine, or
2.after § 174 par. 2 nr. 1 (spoiling underage persons) or § 176 par. 3 Nr. 1 (abusing underage persons)

Answering dotcommacomma's initial question, laws alike are put in power by the gender who's primary feat of distinction is the bushy moustache and the distinctive prussian blue uniform  as a matter of fact, the German code of laws was barely changed the very establishment of the Second Reich.


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## alexacohen

übermönch said:


> Hier im Dorfe mitten im Nirgendwo am Rande der Welt in Hessen schwankt die öffentliche Meinung zu FKK von eher unsittlich zugar skandalös. Auf der Frontseite der Lokalzeitung wird des öfteren von gesuchten verbrecherlichen Exhibitionisten berichtet welche unsere hochmoralische Gegend zu verunreinigen versuchen


Can you translate it, please? Or at least explain what it means?
I can't speak German.
Alexa


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## alexacohen

Dr. Quizá said:


> Actually there isn't such a law.


Maybe not, but just try doing it  !
You would be arrested all the same. The charge would be, well, I don't know, but they would find one.
Exhibitionism, maybe?  
Alexa


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## .   1

alexacohen said:


> Maybe not, but just try doing it  !
> You would be arrested all the same.
> Alexa


You could probably be arrested for beaching a subjective 'blanket law' like 'Offensive Conduct' or something vague like that.

.,,


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## alexacohen

No, in Germany I wouldn't. I'm female.
According to German Law, Dr. Quizá would be arrested, not me.
Crazy, isn't it?
Alexa


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## .   1

alexacohen said:


> I'm female.  According to German Law, Dr. Quizá would be arrested, not me.
> Crazy, isn't it?


You're not wrong.

.,,
You seldom are.


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## I.C.

I don’t find the situation in Germany that relaxed. Ok, someone who’d wish to enter a sauna in swimwear would be considered a prudish oddball even by my Catholic mother,  but no casual stripping and nude swimming at any beach as I recall from Denmark, say.  In comparison to some other places it may be sort of relaxed, no comparison to the prudery of the Americans and of most Britons I talked to or happened to observe. 

Here’s an article from today that attempts to compare the US and the Netherlands: http://www.alternet.org/story/50732/

(Entering a sauna in Germany a towel will be worn, then one will sit or lie on it, so no, there is no problem with hygiene. This also applies to mixed sauna, but not everyone will wish to enter a public mixed sauna.) 



übermönch said:


> act of exhibitionism



  I’m a layman, but a bit sceptical whether the paragraph that deals with exhibitionism will usually be the one to be applied to public displays of nudity, the element of sexual gratification is missing. I think it will rather fall under Erregung öffentlichen Ärgernisses – if that. No discrimination by sex in that paragraph. And I've never heard of people having to serve time for public nudity. 

 If memory serves me right, then at least according to what I heard on the news on public radio then, a few years ago there was a ruling by a reasonably important court in Stuttgart (capital of a fairly conservative state) to the content that the (fairly conservative) rural folks from a place not that far away from the city had to tolerate nudism at some lake nearby, because today such (unregulated) nudity would not constitute a breach of the public morals any longer. You cannot rely on this piece of information, I didn’t manage to find the ruling. There have been courts within the same state that forbade organised naked bicycling on public roads.
If what I heard is correct, then after the reunification some West German tourists began to complain about nude locals at East German beaches, and as they brought in money, more or less won the war of cultures. But that’s not based on own observation – East Germans should know more about that. And who knows how things will develop in general anyway, to me it looks like less young folks strip at the lakes than did a few years ago.


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## cirrus

alexacohen said:


> Can you translate it, please? Or at least explain what it means?
> I can't speak German.
> Alexa



Here's my attempt - let others polish it

Here in a Hessen village, in the middle of nowhere, public opinion about naturism veers between it being seen as anti social or even shameful.  The front page of the local paper often has reports about criminal exhibitionists who attempt to pollute the high moral standing of the area.


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## alexacohen

cirrus said:


> Here's my attempt - let others polish it
> 
> Here in a Hessen village, in the middle of nowhere, public opinion about naturism veers between it being seen as anti social or even shameful. The front page of the local paper often has reports about criminal exhibitionists who attempt to pollute the high moral standing of the area.


Many thanks!!
Alexa


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## don maico

Sallyb36 said:


> No, it's usually too cold here to go naked.  I think there are some beaches on the south coast that are nudist beaches but I don't think that the majority of British people use them.



I dont think its anything to do with the cold as swimwear isnt exactly warm anyway. Its basically cultural. Most people think it a rather bizarre activity  taken up by shameless individuals who are usually ( in their eyes anyway) overweight and too old. In other words if nudity be the case then it should be practiced in the public eye by young beautiful people. Not my opinion by the way as I think naturism is perfectly acceptable for all and sundry,
There are  certain beaches in the south, yes. Brighton in West sussex has one


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## Hutschi

I.C. said:


> If what I heard is correct, then after the reunification some West German tourists began to complain about nude locals at East German beaches, and as they brought in money, more or less won the war of cultures. But that’s not based on own observation – East Germans should know more about that. And who knows how things will develop in general anyway, to me it looks like less young folks strip at the lakes than did a few years ago.


 
I think this seems to be so.
Especially "mixed" beaches disappeared. And the things are developing, but I do not know exactly into which direction. May be it really also depends on generation.

In the east it became quite normal. (In the 1960th it wasn't yet, even if the traditions were older, but restricted to small groups.) After the unification it started to become more and more restricted again.


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## Brioche

There are some legal nude beaches in Australia. 
There are no legal nude beaches in Queensland.

The first legal nude beach was Maslins Beach in South Australia, about 45km from the centre of Adelaide. 

Going swimming in the nude makes sense, but I don't see the point of nudism. Nudism seems to be naked people busily pretending that they are not naked, and making every effort to be indifferent to the charms of the opposite sex.

In Australia, we are constantly warned about the dangers of skin cancer from over explosure to the sun. 

_The Australian Cancer Council tells us to:
1. Wear sun-protective clothing – that covers as much skin as possible 
2. Use the highest-rating sunscreen – make sure it is broad spectrum and water resistant. Put it on 20 minutes before you go outdoors and every two hours afterwards. 
3. Wear a hat – that protects your face, head, neck and ears 
4. Seek shade  
5. Slide on some sunglasses – make sure they meet Australian Standards._

That's not very encouraging of nudism, is it?


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## Kajjo

Brioche said:


> Going swimming in the nude makes sense, but I don't see the point of nudism. Nudism seems to be naked people busily pretending that they are not naked, and making every effort to be indifferent to the charms of the opposite sex.


Very nice description, I fully agree! And it reflects with what I have observed in Germany. Nude swimming and sunbathing is acceptable and enjoyable, but eating, sitting on a chair or generally living in the nude is in many cases just ideologically motivated and not practical and hygienical.

Kajjo


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## alexacohen

Brioche said:


> Going swimming in the nude makes sense, but I don't see the point of nudism. Nudism seems to be naked people busily pretending that they are not naked, and making every effort to be indifferent to the charms of the opposite sex.


Can I say something a bit off topic? and not be erased?
There are many people like me, with skin problems. Many of us (and there are many of us) need sunbathing so our skin gets better. Nudism is great for us, because if we didn't sunbathe in the nude, there would be several areas of our bodies that would never receive any ray of sun. 
Having beaches with cafeterias, restaurants, minimarkets and so on is great. Because laying in the sun all day long can be boring, and we need to be exposed to the sun as much as it is possible. 
We do not pretend we are not nude. In fact we observe each other bodies and comment. "Your skin is getting better", "can you check the hurts on my back", "Will you please rub my skin on the places I don't reach? etc. There is no connotation at all with sex. I've rubbed many bodies (male and female, young and old, fat and thin) and have had my body rubbed in my turn, and there was no sex involved at all, and no pretence. Just concern.
We prefer these places to be walled. Not because we are ashamed of being nude, but because we'd rather not have around people with glorious skins. Needless to say, we always use a towel when we are seated anywhere! 
Alexa


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## Qcumber

I dicovered nude beaches on the Black Sea during holidays in Romania a long time ago, and found them preferable to standard beaches. I had no other opportunity to try a nude beach elsewhere because generally they are too far away from resort centers.


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## Kajjo

don maico said:


> Most people think it a rather bizarre activity  taken up by shameless individuals who are usually overweight and too old. In other words if nudity be the case then it should be practiced in the public eye by young beautiful people.


Maico, I know you only state this and it is not your personal thought.

Exactly this image is what anti-nudism people try to paint -- but it is entirely untrue. First, bathing naked is not done to be viewed and rated by clothed people, it is about enjoying bathing naked and not about presenting oneself. Beauty, weight and other bodily features are exactly the same when wearing swimming clothes and such an argument is just besides the point of fairness and maturity. Fat people look fat, no matter whether they wear swimming trunks or not.

Secondly, particularly puritanic societies with a drastic avoidance of nakedness have a severe misconception of how the average human body looks like. TV shows and print magazines convey a false image of beautiful, flawless features like taut breasts, fatless shape, smooth skin and well-balanced face. Seeing naked people shifts this wrong picture into the correct direction, you realise that your own body is maybe even above-average, even if it seems far below average compared to those presented in the media. Suddenly, you feel normal and belonging to the majority, you become a positive feeling about your own features. Realising that older people have wrinkles, are a little bit fatter and so on is just realising the obvious truth. Seeing all different sizes of breasts, penis, bottom and so on makes people feel normal and the features become much less important than thought by puritanic societies which create artificial mysteries and secrets around these issues.

Kajjo


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## alexacohen

Kajjo said:


> Seeing naked people shifts this wrong picture into the correct direction, you realise that your own body is maybe even above-average, even if it seems far below average compared to those presented in the media. Suddenly, you feel normal and belonging to the majority, you become a positive feeling about your own features. Realising that older people have wrinkles, are a little bit fatter and so on is just realising the obvious truth.
> Kajjo


Right, right and right.
Alexa


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## don maico

I.C. said:


> I fail to see how the temperatures could have anything to do with this. See Scandinavian customs. Besides, late November last year I swam all nude in a German lake, and as usual with such, after a while cooling out of arms, legs and pectoral muscles became a bit of a practical problem, the groin area did not. If it's really too cold for an activity, people wear wetsuits or alike against that, not ordinary swimwear.
> 
> 
> .



Precisely the point I was making. Swimwear only protects "ones modesty", not againt the cold.


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## don maico

Kajjo said:


> Maico, I know you only state this and it is not your personal thought.
> 
> Exactly this image is what anti-nudism people try to paint -- but it is entirely untrue. First, bathing naked is not done to be viewed and rated by clothed people, it is about enjoying bathing naked and not about presenting oneself. Beauty, weight and other bodily features are exactly the same when wearing swimming clothes and such an argument is just besides the point of fairness and maturity. Fat people look fat, no matter whether they wear swimming trunks or not.
> 
> Secondly, particularly puritanic societies with a drastic avoidance of nakedness have a severe misconception of how the average human body looks like. TV shows and print magazines convey a false image of beautiful, flawless features like taut breasts, fatless shape, smooth skin and well-balanced face. Seeing naked people shifts this wrong picture into the correct direction, you realise that your own body is maybe even above-average, even if it seems far below average compared to those presented in the media. Suddenly, you feel normal and belonging to the majority, you become a positive feeling about your own features. Realising that older people have wrinkles, are a little bit fatter and so on is just realising the obvious truth. Seeing all different sizes of breasts, penis, bottom and so on makes people feel normal and the features become much less important than thought by puritanic societies which create artificial mysteries and secrets around these issues.
> 
> Kajjo



I completely agree with you. Unfortunately here in the UK we still persist in being puritanical, it just takes different forms. People don't wish to come across as being so but then they'll make negative comments like "can't see the point in it " or "don't want to see all those wrinkly fat people" , thus completely missing the point


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## Hutschi

don maico said:


> Precisely the point I was making. Swimwear only protects "ones modesty", not againt the cold.


 
Swimwear does not even not protect against the cold, it makes you cold, when you come out of the water. You should not forget to change the clothes.

At "mixed" beaches, many persons weared clothes when they were _not_ in the water.


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## RedRag

I see no problem with going nude. No shamelessness in being nude. I have skinny-dipped on several occasions, including in mixed company, and I have also been naked in mixed company in other occasions. I fully understand naked sun-bathing. Really it’s an extension of topless sunbathing, which for most girls here is a requisite – fashion demands low-cut tops and nothing catches the eye like a pair of white arrows pointing just where as men we’re not supposed to stare (the irony of the only shy girl being the star of the club!). Besides, some of the G-strings on the beach disappear to the point that they might as well not be there. Likewise nude swimming is more convenient and nude sauna-bathing makes much more sense than clothed sauna-ating.
 
BUT…
 
The is an sexual element surrounding the “nude” scene. Not that nudity = sex. Not that all nudists are perverts. But, it does attract exhibitionists. It does attract perverts. I fear it may also attract paedophiles (I would never let a child go nude during puberty (very young its fine, adults fine, but a 13 yr-old?). In fact the promotion of ‘family’ nudism is a euphemism used on the net for pictures of underage naked girls.
 
There are several nude beaches or beach areas where I used to live. I will explain some things one will see: You will see exhibitionists. (Love, there really is no need to lie with your legs splayed). You will see posers, strolling up and down (you do on any beach, mind). You will see lewd behaviour. Erections. Couples touching each other on the genitals. You will see photographers. I’ve seen some with foot-long telescopic lenses on hills overlooking the beach (also known as Perver’s Point). -“it’s for the birds, you see!”. You see the diehard nudists, there shivering in winter till there’s nothing left to flash. In the sand dunes naked men pop up like sentinels, having a look around. (I assume it’s a cruising area). And you will see the ugly, wrinkly, old (particularly small), nudist stereotype in unnatural abundance. There are sordid, underlying motives to why these people take there clothes off in public.
 
But as well. You will see attractive young women and men, alone or in groups, having distanced themselves to the quiet end, just getting a tan. You will see families and friends having a picnic. You will see plenty of people on their own, minding their own business, totally oblivious to what’s around them without any ogling or letching. It’s a some and some thing.
 
I don’t see any benefits, socially or physically, of nude bathing. I think you must be a bit weird to consider taking your clothes off a hobby (and probably in the first groups I described) but on the other hand don’t see any reason not to skinnydip if you just prefer an all-round tan, or don’t like swimming trunks, or fancy a swim and you haven’t got any trunks with you. Its turning nudity into an –ism and having nudist-recreation and nudist-clubs that I find odd.


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## .   1

RedRag said:


> I see no problem with going nude. No shamelessness in being nude. I have skinny-dipped on several occasions, including in mixed company, and I have also been naked in mixed company in other occasions. I fully understand naked sun-bathing. Really it’s an extension of topless sunbathing, which for most girls here is a requisite – fashion demands low-cut tops and nothing catches the eye like a pair of white arrows pointing just where as men we’re not supposed to stare (the irony of the only shy girl being the star of the club!). Besides, some of the G-strings on the beach disappear to the point that they might as well not be there. Likewise nude swimming is more convenient and nude sauna-bathing makes much more sense than clothed sauna-ating.


I pretty much agree with you here,

BUT…




RedRag said:


> The is an sexual element surrounding the “nude” scene. Not that nudity = sex. Not that all nudists are perverts. But, it does attract exhibitionists. It does attract perverts. I fear it may also attract paedophiles (I would never let a child go nude during puberty (very young its fine, adults fine, but a 13 yr-old?). In fact the promotion of ‘family’ nudism is a euphemism used on the net for pictures of underage naked girls.


I do not understand this?
Everything attracts perverts.
That is the definition of a pervert.
Some perverts are attracted to goats but we still eat cheese.
What is wrong with a 13 year old girl going naked?
How is she different to a 12 year old girl or a 14 year old girl?
Don't you introduce an element of 'wickedness' when an action is arbritrarily proscribed?
Won't the 13 year old girl think that there is something wrong with her at the very moment when very many 13 year old girls do think that there is something wrong with them?
Why are 13 year old girls singled out for this ban, what about 13 year old boys? Germaine Greer has passed some passing strange observations about her observations of naked young boys.




RedRag said:


> There are several nude beaches or beach areas where I used to live. I will explain some things one will see: You will see exhibitionists. (Love, there really is no need to lie with your legs splayed). You will see posers, strolling up and down (you do on any beach, mind). You will see lewd behaviour. Erections. Couples touching each other on the genitals. You will see photographers. I’ve seen some with foot-long telescopic lenses on hills overlooking the beach (also known as Perver’s Point). -“it’s for the birds, you see!”. You see the diehard nudists, there shivering in winter till there’s nothing left to flash. In the sand dunes naked men pop up like sentinels, having a look around. (I assume it’s a cruising area). And you will see the ugly, wrinkly, old (particularly small), nudist stereotype in unnatural abundance. There are sordid, underlying motives to why these people take there clothes off in public.


At a place known to be a nudist area seven things are seen in exquisite detail in one paragraph.
Was anybody hurt by the viewing?
The people who were naked were aware that they could be seen.
The people seeing the naked people were aware that there would be naked people to see.
Why do you assume it to be a 'cruising area' (area where gay men cruise to meet gay men for casual sex)?




RedRag said:


> But as well. You will see attractive young women and men, alone or in groups, having distanced themselves to the quiet end, just getting a tan. You will see families and friends having a picnic. You will see plenty of people on their own, minding their own business, totally oblivious to what’s around them without any ogling or letching. It’s a some and some thing.


These people minding their own business are still repeatedly seen by people who go there to look at them.
Does this mean that they should stop because of some ogling letchers?




RedRag said:


> I don’t see any benefits, socially or physically, of nude bathing. I think you must be a bit weird to consider taking your clothes off a hobby (and probably in the first groups I described) but on the other hand don’t see any reason not to skinnydip if you just prefer an all-round tan, or don’t like swimming trunks, or fancy a swim and you haven’t got any trunks with you. Its turning nudity into an –ism and having nudist-recreation and nudist-clubs that I find odd.


I see nothing weird in taking my clothes off at a nude beach. I am a bit creeped out by the eyes rustling in the bushes but I just pretend that it is simply a clumsy wombat and go back to my family for a swim.

On a personal note I must add that the relaxed attitude towards homosexuality and nudity in Australia probably saved my daughter's life when she was about 7.

We had taken her to a beach shortly after we moved to Byron Bay. I was not then familiar with the particular 'cyclonic' wave pattern of the area and my daughter was swept off rocks and into a rip.
By the time that I got my sandles off two naked blokes streaked past me and swam hell for leather after my little baby. One bloke snagged her by the hair and dragged her onto a sand bank but his boyfriend got stuck in the rip so I had to go and grab him.
The first fella pulled my tin lid back to the beach and handed her to my wife and ran away.
By the time that I got back to shore with his utterly exhausted mate (he was a pretty sick bloke and it took a lot of guts for him to jump into that rip) the first fella was back apologising to my wife that he hadn't put on his swimmers before he grabbed her daughter. My wife was too busy laughing and crying to even hear him. She was just kissing him in gratitude and her daughter in utter relief. 
I shook his hand and told him that he was a fair dinkum bloke that I was very pleased and then honoured to meet.

My daughter later had to translate me to her mum. I tried a couple of times to tell her what the bloke was saying sorry about but she just wasn't getting it. Her face was worth a thousand oil paintings when the penny dropped.

.,,


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## Joca

Hutschi said:


> Hi
> 
> is naturism normal in your country? (practice of going naked in the belief that their are physical and/or social benefits to nudity, especially at a beach?) Ist FKK (Freikörperkultur) normal in Ihrer Gegend?


 
Since most of Brazil is tropical and the country has a large coastline, going to the beaches is a very common pasttime. Almost every city possessing beaches has one or two especially reserved for the nude; generally they arenot easy of access. I can't say how many people or what kind of people frequent those beaches, because I have never been to one (although I must confess that once I swam in the nude in the company of a few friends in a deserted and remote beach and it was quite enjoyable - I can also swim in the nude in my own small swimming pool, but I always do it alone). 

Probably there are places where "decent" families can go to as well as places just for casual encounters. I have also heard that there are clubs and resorts for nudism and naturism. During Carnival it is not uncommon to see half-naked people (mostly women) in the big parades, but here, I am afraid, it's all about exhibitionism. 

So, while I can't say that naturism is the norm here, it is not something unknown. By the way, the original inhabitants (the so-called Indians) of Brazil wore no clothes, and this was perhaps the greatest shock for the Portuguese sailors on landing here for the first time. 

There are certainly physical benefits to naturism and nudism, but I think the most evident or searched-for ones are in the emotional area, that is, a sense of liberty or redemption from social conventions.


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## alexacohen

RedRag said:


> There are several nude beaches or beach areas where I used to live. I will explain some things one will see: You will see exhibitionists. (Love, there really is no need to lie with your legs splayed). You will see posers, strolling up and down (you do on any beach, mind). You will see lewd behaviour. Erections. Couples touching each other on the genitals. You will see photographers. I’ve seen some with foot-long telescopic lenses on hills overlooking the beach (also known as Perver’s Point). -“it’s for the birds, you see!”. You see the diehard nudists, there shivering in winter till there’s nothing left to flash. In the sand dunes naked men pop up like sentinels, having a look around. (I assume it’s a cruising area). And you will see the ugly, wrinkly, old (particularly small), nudist stereotype in unnatural abundance. There are sordid, underlying motives to why these people take there clothes off in public.
> 
> But as well. You will see attractive young women and men, alone or in groups, having distanced themselves to the quiet end, just getting a tan. You will see families and friends having a picnic. You will see plenty of people on their own, minding their own business, totally oblivious to what’s around them without any ogling or letching. It’s a some and some thing.


In other words: you see exactly the same than you see in any "clothing" beach.
Alexa


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## .   1

alexacohen said:


> In other words: you see exactly the same than you see in any "clothing" beach.


Too true.  I hadn't seen it that way.  I now see what you are saying.  I suppose that I have seen the light and I can now see where you are coming and you seem to see reality through the same lens that I use to see reality and I am now seeing that what is seen by everybody is not seen to be the same sight but then vision is processed not in our eyes which just receive raw data in the form of electromagnetic pulses and waves but in each of our individually and rarely seen brain containing that even rarer treasure of a functioning mind.

.,,


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## alexacohen

Now, what was the sentence? 
The good or the bad is in the mind of the beholder?

Alexa


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## Chaska Ñawi

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

And now, easing carefully back into the topic so as not to alarm it, we proceed ......


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## alexacohen

Sorry Chaska, I tought I was on topic. Nudism can be viewed as a good thing or a a bad thing, it just depends on the "eye of the beholder" (I didn't remember the sentence properly).
There will be always a pervert with his telescope prying, there will be always an ogler, there will be always young people who look at those of us that are not gloriously young (outside) with disdain... but that does not depend on how many clothes we have on. It depends on the character of the person who is watching.
Alexa


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## .   1

alexacohen said:


> Now, what was the sentence?
> The good or the bad is in the mind of the beholder?
> (or something like)
> Alexa


If this is not the most utterly bang on topic post in this entire thread or perhaps this entire confusing forum then I do not have a big bent nose sitting right in the deadset middle of my face!!

.,,


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## Joca

alexacohen said:


> In other words: you see exactly the same than you see in any "clothing" beach.
> Alexa


 
Alexa

I will agree to this, but with a proviso. In essence, you see the same on both kinds of beach. Actually, I think that a normal beach can even offer you more in the way of sexual innuendoes and the like. Because clothes are not always worn to hide, are they? But mostly to make something stand out, to put in relief...

But it is not only about seeing. I definitively would feel in a different way were I on a nudist beach. All places (and the people for the matter) are basically the same, I grant you this, but the feeling they will instil into you are different. This is very true for me, but I can't say if it is a general rule.

Maybe it's because I am extremely self-conscious...

JC


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## I.C.

Joca said:


> In essence, you see the same on both kinds of beach. Actually, I think that a normal beach can even offer you more in the way of sexual innuendoes and the like. Because clothes are not always worn to hide, are they? But mostly to make something stand out, to put in relief...


 
I was about to write… 
Based on my non-representative experiences I've come to think clothed beaches feature significantly more sexual innuendo.


> But it is not only about seeing. I definitively would feel in a different way were I on a nudist beach. All places (and the people for the matter) are basically the same, I grant you this, but the feeling they will instil into you are different. This is very true for me, but I can't say if it is a general rule.
> 
> Maybe it's because I am extremely self-conscious...


Well, I’m not going to suggest individual choices, but I’ll offer anecdotal evidence: I had a girlfriend who, coming from a background and culture not so in tune with public nudity, had great reservations about sunbathing and swimming in the nude, in a public spot, and due to her physical attributes also had problems with ill-mannered attention from guys on the street and other stuff along the same lines. Bit self-conscious and defensive. No problem with nudity as such. I invited her to come along to a mixed beach with me and to see what it was like there, if she didn’t appreciate the atmosphere, we’d leave, and either way she wouldn’t have to take off her bikini unless she wanted to, I’d not push her. Within ten minutes of being there, she stripped and she’s never had a problem with that since. I’ve heard thanks for taking her there more than once. Comment: “ I thought the atmosphere would be totally different.” Well, it was very quiet. 

Where I went, I always found the atmosphere less sexually charged, those who want to flirt rather going to clothed beaches. Talking about heterosexuals here, don’t know how gays see that (this is a completely value neutral statement). Of course I cannot rule out that this might potentially differ depending on the general cultural climate and therefore the demographic of those who visit nude beaches, I only speak about places I’ve been to. And am not saying I didn’t have any unpleasant experiences at all - though mostly because of staunch opponents of nudity who tried to claim a traditionally mixed beach as theirs and only theirs, not lewd behaviour; on the other hand, on the whole much less ruckus because of obnoxious bands of teenagers showing off and disturbing the peace. I don’t claim this to be representative experiences, I mentioned.


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## .   1

I.C. said:


> I don’t claim this to be representative experiences, I mentioned.


All of the above is representative of all of my many experiences on clothes optional beaches.

All the fair dinkum people are honest and open and the only sleaze is in the bushes where it always is.

.,,


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## RedRag

> What is wrong with a 13 year old girl going naked?
> How is she different to a 12 year old girl or a 14 year old girl?
> Don't you introduce an element of 'wickedness' when an action is arbritrarily proscribed?
> Won't the 13 year old girl think that there is something wrong with her at the very moment when very many 13 year old girls do think that there is something wrong with them?
> Why are 13 year old girls singled out for this ban, what about 13 year old boys? Germaine Greer has passed some passing strange observations about her observations of naked young boys.


Nothing is wrong with a 13 year old girl going naked in public. What is wrong is people videotaping it and selling it to paedophiles.

The 13-yr old was picked out because it is in between an adult (17) and and small child (6).

I don't suggest that such beaches should be banned. I clearly attribute no wickednes to nudity.

I did not single out anyone for a ban. I do not single out girls. I did not propose a ban. I just stated that in my opinion it is would be irresponsible to take a young adult to a nude beach. This is becasue they are too young to make such a decision - one which could expose them to the dangers of perverts.



> At a place known to be a nudist area seven things are seen in exquisite detail in one paragraph.
> Was anybody hurt by the viewing?
> The people who were naked were aware that they could be seen.
> The people seeing the naked people were aware that there would be naked people to see.


I pass no moral or ethical judgement  on these 'sights'. I merely point them out to back up my point that there is a 'sexual element' associated with nudism for some people who frequent such beaches.



> Why do you assume it to be a 'cruising area' (area where gay men cruise to meet gay men for casual sex)?


To quote Dirty Harry - "when I see a naked man chasing a woman down an alleway with a hardon and a butchers knife I assume hes not ...

Trust me.



> These people minding their own business are still repeatedly seen by people who go there to look at them.
> Does this mean that they should stop because of some ogling letchers?


Nothing is *wrong* with it. I simply point out that some people "do" it to be seen or to see. Exhibitionsim and voyeurism. I dont think anything is *wrong* with top-shelf magazines, but I dont pretend that they are relaxing and good for the soul. It is what it is and they are what they are.


To reiterate what I said in my original post:

There is nothing wrong with taking your clothes off. There is nothing wong with nudity. There is nothing shamefull about nakedness, whatever size, shape or age it comes in. 

If you like to frequent nude beaches because you like to swim and sun-bathe naked then fine. If you like to walk around your house with no clothes on then fine. If you like to congregate with other people nude then fine, If you do it becasue it excites you to think of people looking at your genitals, or because you like stare at other people's genitals then fine. It is what it is and you are what you are.

Only *you* know your motives for taking your clothes off. Judge yourself how you feel you should be judged.


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## alexacohen

I'm afraid that's quite the same thing Robert said. 
You have clarified your point and that's fine; but don't point with your finger. Apply the *you *only to yourself.


. said:


> All of the above is representative of all of my many experiences on clothes optional beaches.
> 
> All the fair dinkum people are honest and open and the only sleaze is in the bushes where it always is.
> 
> .,,


Alexa


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## RedRag

I dont point my finger at any specific person - only I know my own motives. That is the point.


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## LouisaB

RedRag said:


> I think you must be a bit weird to consider taking your clothes off a hobby (and probably in the first groups I described) but on the other hand don’t see any reason not to skinnydip if you just prefer an all-round tan, or don’t like swimming trunks, or fancy a swim and you haven’t got any trunks with you. Its turning nudity into an –ism and having nudist-recreation and nudist-clubs that I find odd.


 
Then I'm afraid I must be 'weird', RedRag, because I _do _enjoy it as a hobby, and deliberately go to places where it is allowed. I'm not quite sure in what way your comment is 'not passing judgement', but still, I'm sure you don't mean to be offensive.

I am, however, very interested in the different cultural aspects of this. For instance, the Caribbean island of St Maarten/St Martin is part-Dutch, part-French, and nude bathing is permitted on the French side, but not on the Dutch side. I'd love to know if this means naturism is frowned on in Holland, or it's a decision individual to this one island. I suspect the situation is nothing like as simple as a stereptypical 'French favour naturism, Dutch don't', but I'd really like to know. It's interesting that in Jersey, the tourist office issues little cards of advice to visitors telling them what dress is acceptable on the beach, which basically means 'don't go topless, or worse', and when I asked the hotel manager about these, she said it was because many people assumed that because of the French heritage and influence in Jersey that topless bathing would automatically be allowed!

I'd also like to know what the _general_ attitude is in the US, if that isn't too gross a generalisation. We sometimes go on cruises, and I've learned that if the cruise-line is American, it will tend to avoid the naturism areas in its shore excursions, but if it's British, it won't. We did however once go to Orient Beach (St Martins again) with a US cruise line, and the American tour guide told us we needn't be offended by what we saw, that some people thought of this behaviour as totally natural (implying most people on the tour would think it wasn't). When we arrived at the beach, we and another British couple took our clothes off, but we were the only ones, and we were also the only non-Americans present. We'd made some very good American friends on the cruise, and they said (I think genuinely) that they would love to join us, but were afraid of what the 'others' would think. From some of the posts on this thread it's quite clear Americans are no more 'anti-naturism' than anyone else - but is the _culture_ in the US (as opposed to the opinions of individuals) generally for or against? I don't mean to ask for stereotypes, just as feeling of what the general culture is.

To generalise the situation in Britain, we basically find naturism slightly ridiculous - it's the subject of numerous jokes about volleyball and frying eggs. I think the cold weather _is_ a reason it doesn't happen much, but there is a 'nudist sanctuary' just a mile from where I live, where there isn't even a beach (only a heated swimming pool) but people still flock to spend the day there. Interestingly,they're usually highly embarrassed about it - a couple I know have invented an aunt in this part of Britain to explain away their frequent visits to their friends...

Louisa


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## TRG

I know next to nothing about it, have not tried it, and probably never will.  I cannot imagine that there would be any physical benefits whatsoever, but I would allow as how there might be some psychological benefit even if it is only in making you feel good about yourself or perhaps others.  Hard to imagine why exactly, but that's for others to decide for themselves.  I will share a favorite saying of my father-in-law which I agree with to some extent: "Nakedness is not a sign of intelligence!"


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## Sepia

There is one very interesting point concerning nude beaches that nobody has mentioned so far:

We have them, they are clearly designated, and if you are DRESSED you will be asked to undress or leave. And there is often a sign telling this very clearly.

I am not sure if you are more likely to get trouble for being dressed on the nude beach or vice versa. Where I usually go I have occasionally seen nude people outside the nude area, and nobody really seemed to care. 

But Germany is not just Germany.


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## kirsitn

In Norway there are some designated nudist beaches, but I've never been to any of them, so I don't know how popular they are. I have however been to a couple of nudist beaches in Greece and must say that swimming naked is far more comfortable than wearing a swimming suit/bikini that ends up being cold, soggy and full of sand once you're out of the water.


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