# All dialects: roundabout (traffic circle)



## barkoosh

Hello

I'm interested to know what word is used in different dialects for "roundabout" (or "traffic circle", that is, the "road junction in which traffic streams circulate around a central island"). In Lebanon we use مستديرة or دوّار.

Thanks


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## Linolenic

In Jordan, we also use دوّار.


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## thelastchoice

In Saudi Arabia: دَوّار Dawwaar.
In Bahrain: رندبوت Randaboot from English Rounabout
In Morocco: Press : مدار Madaar (Standard), in dialect: رومبوان from French Rond Point


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## tounsi51

in Tunisia, we use the French word rond point


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## abdalhamid

In Palestine we use دوّار .


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## Schem

Interesting. I didn't think دوّار would predominate in the Arab world. How common is مستديرة in Lebanon as opposed to دوّار?


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## barkoosh

Thanks for the replies. Obviously دوّار is the most common.

Does anyone know what word is used in Egypt? I'm working on something about the history of Cairo. There's an interview, in English, with Historian Khaled Fahmy, in which he says about Isma'il Pasha's Cairo: "a western city, western inspired with modern streets with straight boulevards, and roundabouts with statues of public figures adorning them."

Is "roundabouts" here ميادين or دوّارات for a native Egyptian? It's definitely not مستديرات.


Schem said:


> Interesting. I didn't think دوّار would predominate in the Arab world. How common is مستديرة in Lebanon as opposed to دوّار?


I'm more used to the French "rond-point", which is widely used. But in writing we use مستديرة. The word دوّار is less common. For example, we have دوّار أبو علي in Tripoli.


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## إسكندراني

The actual round bit, is sometimes called الصينية (because it looks like the round tray food is served on).
The whole thing is usually large (Egypt doesn't have small roundabouts) and is thought of as a ميدان.
If I were to refer to the concept I might call it a دوران but usually that refers to a ملف للخلف (U-turn slip road) and people say يو تيرن
I wouldn't use دوّار and I don't think most people know the concept of a roundabout really.
For your novel, the intention is certainly to describe ميادين


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## barkoosh

Thanks man!


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## momai

In Syria the most common word for roundabout is دوّار.


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## cherine

barkoosh said:


> Does anyone know what word is used in Egypt? I'm working on something about the history of Cairo. There's an interview, in English, with Historian Khaled Fahmy, in which he says about Isma'il Pasha's Cairo: "a western city, western inspired with modern streets with straight boulevards, and roundabouts with statues of public figures adorning them."
> 
> Is "roundabouts" here ميادين or دوّارات for a native Egyptian? It's definitely not مستديرات.


In this context, I would translate it as ميادين.



إسكندراني said:


> The whole thing is usually large (Egypt doesn't have small roundabouts) and is thought of as a ميدان.


We do have small roundabouts here and there. I think they're mostly referred to as صينية and/or دوران , though ميدان can also be used for them.


> If I were to refer to the concept I might call it a دوران but usually that refers to a ملف للخلف (U-turn slip road) and people say يو تيرن
> I wouldn't use دوّار and I don't think most people know the concept of a roundabout really.


I agree. We don't use "dawwar"* for roundabout, and the U-turn is referred to as malaff ملف , and those who know/use English terms, refer to them with the English term.

* Actually, the only context where I heard the word dawwaar in Egypt is when referring to the [presumably] big house of the village chief دَوّار العمدة.


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## إسكندراني

Just a couple more comments:
* جمع دوران «دورانات»ـ
* I don't think I've ever heard an Egyptian use the word 'roundabout' in English. Even in America they don't really use this term, they'd call it a 'traffic circle' I think.


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## cherine

I wasn't talking about the roundabout (being said in English) but the U-turn.


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## hiba

In Yemen: جولة


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## AntiScam

In Libya it is called the island, الجزيرة


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## elroy

cherine said:


> "dawwar"


 In Palestinian Arabic it’s pronounced “duwwār.”  I dont know about other dialects.


AntiScam said:


> In Libya it is called the island, الجزيرة


 In Palestinian Arabic that’s a median.  Do you use the same word for both in Libya?


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## Mahaodeh

Since this thread has been reopened, I think it's appropriate to add that in Iraq it's called فِلْكة (filkeh) in colloquial. Officially and in MSA it's called ساحة.


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## jack_1313

In Jordan, a دُوّار could be a roundabout, but it could also be a large, regular intersection with traffic lights.


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> Officially and in MSA it's called ساحة.


 I believe دوّار is used in the MSA of Palestine.  (ساحة definitely isn’t.)


jack_1313 said:


> In Jordan, a دُوّار could be a roundabout, but it could also be a large, regular intersection with traffic lights.


 Really?  The two are totally different things!


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## jack_1313

elroy said:


> Really? The two are totally different things!



The example that comes to my mind is ميدان الشرق الأوسط, which is a large four-way intersection with slip lanes. It's not a roundabout by any stretch of the imagination. Colloquially, it's known as دوار الشرق الأوسط or, in the local area, simply as الدوار. I don't think this example is unique. If I think of others, I'll add them.

Some intersections are called إشارة such-and-such, a reference to the traffic lights (e.g. إشارة المصدار). As for تقاطع, the only time I've heard the word is when it's come out of my own mouth, but people understand it. Maybe they would use it to refer to small intersections between streets?


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## elroy

We don’t use تقاطع for “intersection” in Palestinian Arabic; we use مفرق.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> I believe دوّار is used in the MSA of Palestine. (ساحة definitely isn’t.)


No, I don't know of anywhere else that use either ساحة or فلكة. Interestingly, فلكة is more accurate semantically!
Also, ساحة is also used for other open spaces in the city, such children's playgrounds, sports fields, and others; while فلكة is exclusively for a roundabout.


jack_1313 said:


> The example that comes to my mind is ميدان الشرق الأوسط, which is a large four-way intersection with slip lanes.


I know for a fact that دوّار الشرق الأوسط was an actual roundabout 20 years ago. I don't know when it was redesigned and built as an intersection but people probably still call it that out of habit. I'm pretty sure the other examples you come up with are the same.

Having said that, it is possible that the usage of the word is beginning to change, but 20 years ago دوّار referred exclusively to a roundabout. I don't think that 20 years is enough for a word to gain a new meaning but I suppose that this could be one of the ways that it changes with time.


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## jack_1313

Mahaodeh said:


> I know for a fact that دوّار الشرق الأوسط was an actual roundabout 20 years ago. I don't know when it was redesigned and built as an intersection but people probably still call it that out of habit. I'm pretty sure the other examples you come up with are the same.



That's probably it. Other examples I thought of are الدوار السابع, which is a large interchange now but was almost certainly a roundabout once upon a time, and دوار فراس. The latter is an intersection, but again, for all I know it could once have been a roundabout.


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## AntiScam

elroy said:


> In Palestinian Arabic that’s a median.  Do you use the same word for both in Libya?


By _median_, do you mean square?
At any rate, a traffic circle is جزيرة
An intersection (a crossroads) is definitely تقاطع
A square is ميدان, ساحة

I've never heard of dawwar or any one say dawwar in Libya.


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## elroy

AntiScam said:


> By _median_, do you mean square?


 No.  A median is the part of some roads that separates the two directions of traffic (discussed here).


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## dakaplo

jack_1313 said:


> The example that comes to my mind is ميدان الشرق الأوسط, which is a large four-way intersection with slip lanes. It's not a roundabout by any stretch of the imagination. Colloquially, it's known as دوار الشرق الأوسط or, in the local area, simply as الدوار. I don't think this example is unique. If I think of others, I'll add them.
> 
> Some intersections are called إشارة such-and-such, a reference to the traffic lights (e.g. إشارة المصدار). As for تقاطع, the only time I've heard the word is when it's come out of my own mouth, but people understand it. Maybe they would use it to refer to small intersections between streets?



In Amman, there are 8 important intersections along شارع زهران that people refer to as الدوار الأول، الدوار الثاني، الدوار الثالث، إلخ . The first few are definitely circles, but as you go further out (duwwār 6, 7, 8) they basically just turn into big intersections, sometimes with slip lanes, sometimes with tunnels under them, and it's very hard to see them as circles, but people still call them duwwār.


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## Mahaodeh

dakaplo said:


> but as you go further out (duwwār 6, 7, 8) they basically just turn into big intersections, sometimes with slip lanes, sometimes with tunnels under them, and it's very hard to see them as circles, but people still call them duwwār.



Yes, but these were roundabouts when they were first built. I don't recall when exactly but during the 1990s they started to change them into intersections.

Names stick. In Baghdad there was a remnant of an Abbasid era city gate that survived until the turn of the 20th century. Some time during WWI it became rubble. People still call the location باب المعظّم in reference to a gate that has not existed for a century. A more western example, Piccadilly Circus lost it's shape as a circus in the 1880s, some 125 years ago, when a new road was built through it but it is still called a circus today.

My point is, even if the location is currently an intersection with traffic lights and called الدوّار السابع, this does not mean that the word duwwaar means intersection. It just means that historically they were roundabouts (in this case, recent history).


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## dakaplo

"Seventh Circle" seems less culturally salient to me than the names in your other examples because it's just a number and the name of a road feature, as opposed to the circus and gate that had distinctive names.

You're right to point out though that the Amman example doesn't imply that دوار means intersection, and in fact other intersections in Amman aren't referred to as دوار . (Not sure what they are called though... maybe مفرق طرق ?) But I think the example does show that people are willing to stretch the meaning of the word a bit. Plus it helps that they're part of a series of traffic circles, so it feels natural to just keep counting circles even as the actual roads get more complicated.


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## elroy

dakaplo said:


> "Seventh Circle" seems less culturally salient to me than the names in your other examples because it's just a number and the name of a road feature, as opposed to the circus and gate that had distinctive names.


 I don't see what difference that makes.  


dakaplo said:


> I think the example does show that people are willing to stretch the meaning of the word a bit.


 I don't think that's what we're dealing with here.  Based on the information given above, it sounds like a _limited _number of intersections are still called دوار because that's what used to be where they are now.  This does not mean that the _meaning_ of the word دوار has been "stretched."  As you say yourself: 





dakaplo said:


> other intersections in Amman aren't referred to as دوار


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## dakaplo

elroy said:


> I don't see what difference that makes.


What I meant was, Picadilly Circus is named for Picadilly, Bab al-Mu'aẓẓam is named for Masjid al-Imam al-A'ẓam (according to Wikipedia), but the seventh circle isn't named for anything except that it's the 7th in a series of traffic circles. That seems like a pretty generic name to me, and the kind of thing that would probably fall out of use after the place changed, if it weren't contextually relevant—i.e., the 7th circle comes after the 6th. But I might be overthinking it...



elroy said:


> Based on the information given above, it sounds like a _limited _number of intersections are still called دوار because that's what used to be where they are now.  This does not mean that the _meaning_ of the word دوار has been "stretched."


There are intersections that don't look traffic circles anymore, but people are still willing to refer to them as دوار - to me, that seems like the set of things denoted by the word دوار has been expanded. But admittedly that might be a confusing way to think of the meaning of the word.


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## elroy

dakaplo said:


> That seems like a pretty generic name to me, and the kind of thing that would probably fall out of use after the place changed, if it weren't contextually relevant—i.e., the 7th circle comes after the 6th. But I might be overthinking it...


 I think you are.  Once a name gets established, it's likely to stick, as Maha said, regardless of its origins.  


dakaplo said:


> There are intersections that don't look traffic circles anymore, but people are still willing to refer to them as دوار - to me, that seems like the set of things denoted by the word دوار has been expanded. But admittedly that might be a confusing way to think of the meaning of the word.


 I would say it's misleading.  A more accurate description would be that for a _handful _of things called دوار, the name is a misnomer, for historical reasons -- but the meaning of دوار has not changed or expanded.  In other words, I'm sure if you told a Jordanian بنوا دوار بقريتنا or في جنب داري دوار, there would be no ambiguity and they would think of a traffic circle.  And if you attempted to use دوار to mean "intersection" (in reference to something that is not one of the exceptions discussed here), you would be misunderstood.


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## apricots

I, for one, never actually realized that some of the circles aren't actually circles. Even the ones that aren't actual circles are interchanges without traffic lights, which may or may not make a difference. They're still traffic-circle-like in that sense.


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## jack_1313

apricots said:


> Even the ones that aren't actual circles are interchanges without traffic lights


That's not true for several examples that I gave earlier in this thread.


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## Michael Zwingli

إسكندراني said:


> Just a couple more comments:
> * جمع دوران «دورانات»ـ
> * I don't think I've ever heard an Egyptian use the word 'roundabout' in English. Even in America they don't really use this term, they'd call it a 'traffic circle' I think.


Quite right! "Roundabout" is more common in British English, while in America "traffic circle" predominates, excepting in the northeastern "New England" states (in which region I live), where the term "rotary" is ubiquitous.


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