# It has been five years since I have been working for your company.



## timpeac

Hi

Elroy and I would appreciate it if you could give your opinion on the above statement. We both agree it is not the most elegant of phrases, but if you had to say - what does it mean to you?

I have put the "it means neither" option, *please only use this if you think that it could not possibly mean either. *If it suggests one or the other to you please tell us which, and give your suggested improvement below, otherwise we'll end up with a whole poll of "neither". 

If you could put a comment as to why you think what you do, or suggest any grammar rules I think we would appreciate it. Thanks.


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## JLanguage

timpeac said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> Elroy and I would appreciate it if you could give your opinion on the above statement. We both agree it is not the most elegant of phrases, but what does it mean to you?
> 
> If you could put a comment as to why you think what you do, or suggest any grammar rules I think we would appreciate it. Thanks.


 


I chose _neither of the above_ because the sentence doesn't really make sense, and also I think it might be grammatically incorrect. I think that there's an agreement error. _Has been_ doesn't agree with _have been working_.

_It has been five years since_, is fine.
_I have been working for your company, _however contradicts the first part of the sentence. You can't be working for someone if it has been 5 years since you worked for them!

I suggest: _It has been five years since I worked for your company._ I think that is how the sentence should read.

An Alternative Interpretation: _It has been five years since I began working for your company._

My two cents,
-Jonathan.


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## mnzrob

I voted for the first option, although, if i heard a non-native speaker saying this phrase, I could understand how he could also mean the second. But with the word "since", I would always understand it as the first. If you replaced "since" with "that", it would mean the second.
Like Jonathan said, "It has been 5 years since i worked for your company" sounds a lot better, or maybe even "It has...since I have worked for your company."

Rob


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## timpeac

JLanguage said:
			
		

> I chose _neither of the above_ because the sentence doesn't really make sense, and also I think it might be grammatically incorrect. I think that there's an agreement error. _Has been_ doesn't agree with _have been working_.
> 
> _It has been five years since_, is fine.
> _I have been working for your company, _however contradicts the first part of the sentence. You can't be working for someone if it has been 5 years since you worked for them!
> 
> I suggest: _It has been five years since I worked for your company._ I think that is how the sentence should read.
> 
> An Alternative Interpretation: _It has been five years since I began working for your company._
> 
> My two cents,
> -Jonathan.


 
Thanks Jonathan. I'll just comment on this first post and then see what people do.

We know that the phrase is horrible, we would just like to know what you would assume someone meant if they were to use it. From what you said you would assume it was A, but it would be better said as either

_It has been five years since I worked for your company. or_
_It has been five years since I began working for your company._

Could we all just use the neither option if the phrase suggests neither of the interpretations? Otherwise we are going to get one big poll for "neither".

Thanks!


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## elroy

JLanguage said:
			
		

> I chose _neither of the above_ because the sentence doesn't really make sense, and also I think it might be grammatically incorrect. I think that there's an agreement error. _Has been_ doesn't agree with _have been working_.
> 
> _It has been five years since_, is fine.
> _I have been working for your company, _however contradicts the first part of the sentence. You can't be working for someone if it has been 5 years since you worked for them!
> 
> I suggest: _It has been five years since I worked for your company._ I think that is how the sentence should read.
> 
> An Alternative Interpretation: _It has been five years since I began working for your company._
> 
> 
> 
> My two cents,
> -Jonathan.



Your objection to this sentence has nothing to do with agreement.  Agreement concerns the subject and the verb it goes with.  That is, you have to say "John eats" and not "John eat."  If there are two distinct verbs with two distinct subjects in the same sentence, there is no reason for both verbs to be in the same tense.  

However, I do understand your reservations about this sentence.  You are assuming the person is trying to say that he is not working there anymore (which I suppose is suggested by the opening clause "It has been five years"), which is obviously contradicted by saying "I have been working here" (which implies continuation of work).

However, "it has been five years" does not necessarily mean that anything is over.  It is a neutral statement that indicates the passage of a certain amount of time.  It could be that that much time has passed since I started working (and I continue to do so) or that that much time has passed since I stopped working there.

What we'd like to hear from you is which of these two possibilities is most closely alluded to by the above (grammatically correct, as far as we've discovered from other examples) sentence.

Thank you.


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## ameridude

the sentence is poorly constructed and shouldn't be used.  It looks like a direct translation from French, and if a non-native speaker were to use it, I would assume #2 is the intended meaning.


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## la grive solitaire

timpeac said:
			
		

> We know that the phrase is horrible



Brevity is the soul of wit.  I voted for the second one--reluctantly.


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## cuchuflete

I agree with all who don't care for it.  That's the easy part.  Now, as to the meaning, 


> It has been five years since I have been working for your company.



I had to turn it around to understand it:  I have been working for your company {implies that I still do...}It has been five years. {Elapsed time *since* this situation began.}

Thus I voted for #2.

It has been five minutes since I began trying to understand this sentence.

cheers,
Cuchu


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## Kelly B

"Since" implies "used to".
"have been" implies "still do."
Those are contradictory, so I vote "neither."


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## cuchuflete

Hi Kelly,

Since does imply "used to" but that is not the only possible meaning of the word.

Since when do we limit ourselves to a single definition? According to one dictionary, it has a dozen meanings, one of which is, "continuously from (the time given) until now."

Another meaning is, "continuously from the time when...".

Yet another, "inasmuch as; because".

Since the sentence is a mess, I believe it is the meaning in blue, above.

cheers,
Cuchu


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## Kelly B

Hi, Cuchu,
My reply depends in part on the discussion-at-length in the other thread. You are correct, of course, that "since" may have multiple meanings. However, in this particular (dreadful) sentence, the corrected version that employs the word "since" that I hear in my head is "since I worked;" my corrected version that employs "have worked" is "that I have worked," which carries the other meaning. So my opinion stands.


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## elroy

ameridude said:
			
		

> the sentence is poorly constructed and shouldn't be used.  It looks like a direct translation from French, and if a non-native speaker were to use it, I would assume #2 is the intended meaning.



Actually, in French you would say "Il y a cinq ans que je travaille ici."  Directly translated, that means "There is five years that I work here."


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## timpeac

Whatever our opinion of what the sentence means, everyone seems to be in agreement that it is horrible. Maybe this is the problem, there is something that doesn't "work" for us and so we do our best to put a "reasonable" interpretation on it, the two most common being options 1 and 2.

However, why do you think this sentence doesn't work, why does

"It has been five years since I have been working for your company" sound horrible while

"It's been five years since they’ve been living apart" sounds fine?

I think that Kelly could be right in that there is something about the sentence which just doesn't go - but what??


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## lainyn

Tim, I'm sorry, but that last sentence is no better than the first. It makes no sense to me, and as a native speaker (of North American English) I would never say it.


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## timpeac

lainyn said:
			
		

> Tim, I'm sorry, but that last sentence is no better than the first. It makes no sense to me, and as a native speaker (of North American English) I would never say it.


 
No no, that's fine. If that's what you think please say so.

From the comments so far it's clear that no one thinks that this is a satisfactory sentence whatever might have been meant in the first place.


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## jacinta

I agree that this is a sentence no one would use.  What I don't understand is why we are all discussing it.  We just don't use the structure "It has been_______since...


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## JLanguage

jacinta said:
			
		

> I agree that this is a sentence no one would use. What I don't understand is why we are all discussing it. We just don't use the structure "It has been_______since...


 
Actually, I've used that structure before. Ex. Man, it has been so long since I've had good pizza! Also: It has been 5 years since your last visit.

-Jonathan.


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## fetchezlavache

i voted for option 2. I agree it's not very 'light', but i see nothing wrong with it grammatically, because i realise i have added a word in my head... and that's why i voted 2.

it's been 5 years (yesterday) since i've been working for you.

and in my non-native english, this makes perfect sense.


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## jacinta

JLanguage said:
			
		

> Actually, I've used that structure before. Ex. Man, it has been so long since I've had good pizza! Also: It has been 5 years since your last visit.
> 
> -Jonathan.


I like your sentence about the pizza!  That sounds very natural to me.  I was too quick on the draw in my post. Sorry about that. I should have left the last part out.


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## Kelly B

The pizza sentence is significantly DIFFERENT from the example at issue. Having that good pizza was a discrete event. Working is a continuous action."Since" does not match with a continuous verb form. "Since I began working" is ok: that happened once (you may still be there, but that first moment you stepped in the door was an event).
"That I have been working" is ok, because "that" matches with the continuous verb form.


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## timpeac

Kelly B said:
			
		

> The pizza sentence is significantly DIFFERENT from the example at issue. Having that good pizza was a discrete event. Working is a continuous action."Since" does not match with a continuous verb form. "Since I began working" is ok: that happened once (you may still be there, but that first moment you stepped in the door was an event).
> "That I have been working" is ok, because "that" matches with the continuous verb form.


 
Yes, I think this is the most likely explanation. This construction sounds ok with actions that are more or less punctual, but not ones of generally long duration.

Elroy - this fits in with all the examples in this thread and the other doesn't it? It is kind of the idea I was trying to get at with my "started to" argument in the other thread. As you rightly pointed out you can "start" doing any of the examples. Perhaps the difference is that you view certain actions as discrete/continuous and that's the difference.


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## Jana337

JLanguage said:
			
		

> Actually, I've used that structure before. Ex. Man, it has been so long since I've had good pizza! Also: It has been 5 years since your last visit.
> 
> -Jonathan.



This is what I have gleaned from my grammar books and courses:

The structure is "It has been ... since something happened." (and not "has happened")

I would write your sentence like this: It has been 5 years since I had a good pizza.

Or:

It has been 5 years since I last saw her.

But you - being a native - should know better. 

Jana


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## timpeac

Jana337 said:
			
		

> This is what I have gleaned from my grammar books and courses:
> 
> The structure is "It has been ... since something happened." (and not "has happened")
> 
> I would write your sentence like this: It has been 5 years since I had a good pizza.
> 
> Or:
> 
> It has been 5 years since I last saw her.
> 
> But you - being a native - should know better.
> 
> Jana


 
There are certain circumstances were the "since someone has been something" sounds ok, and sometimes not to my ears.

To me the sentence in the title is horrible, but if it meant anything it would be a. For Elroy the sentence is fine and would mean b, that was what we were trying to investigate.

I must say I feel no clearer on this issue since I would interpret this thread as showing that most people would agree with me that this is a weird sentence, but would agree with Elroy that if it meant something it would be b.

I hate simply having to say that "to my ears" this sentence is horrible when someone quite rightly says "yes but it's just like this other phrase which you say does work".

If anyone can explain the difference between my two sentences in post 13 I would appreciate it.


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## Kelly B

Well, I don't like the second sentence in #13 either. (Sitting there in stunned surprise, are you? thought not. Tee hee.) 
I'd say They have been living apart for five years.
Or something, anything, else, to avoid "since" in that sort of sentence.


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## timpeac

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Well, I don't like the second sentence in #13 either. (Sitting there in stunned surprise, are you? thought not. Tee hee.)
> I'd say They have been living apart for five years.
> Or something, anything, else, to avoid "since" in that sort of sentence.


 
What about this one then - I have to give credit to Elroy for finding this, but it sounds fine to me too -

*You’re looking much better since you’ve been out of hospital.*

I know you could say this in other ways, but this sentence is grammatically OK wouldn't you say?


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## Narda

I voted for the second.  I imagined somebody saying:


It has been five years since I have been working for you, yet, I  have not received a raise.


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## leenico

*It has been five years since I have been working for your company. * 

"Have been working," to me implies that the person is still working for the company.

*It has been five years since I worked for your company. * 

"worked," to me implies that the person has not worked for the company for the last five years.


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## elroy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Yes, I think this is the most likely explanation. This construction sounds ok with actions that are more or less punctual, but not ones of generally long duration.
> 
> Elroy - this fits in with all the examples in this thread and the other doesn't it? It is kind of the idea I was trying to get at with my "started to" argument in the other thread. As you rightly pointed out you can "start" doing any of the examples. Perhaps the difference is that you view certain actions as discrete/continuous and that's the difference.



At this point, we've discussed this sentence so much I can hardly think clearly about it anymore!      I don't even remember why I suggested it in the first place; I think I was probably considering each part of the sentence individually: "it has been five years" and "I have been working here" and didn't really take the time to think about whether it would sound ok with a "since" in between.

However, I do agree with you that the idea is clear when you use a specific event after "since," that is, "It has been five years since I started working here" or "It has been a long time since I had [NOT "have had"] pizza."  However, the question is whether it is still ok to use the present perfect with an IMPLIED specific time reference.  That is, when you asy "It has been five years since I have had a good pizza," you are IMPLYING "It has been five years since I LAST HAD [specific event] a good pizza."  In that case, though, there is no reason that you cannot do the same with the sentence we have.  Why can't "It has been five years since I have been working for you" also mean "It has been five years since I started working here"?  I'm not saying it should; I'm just saying that the "specific event" is implied in both cases and doesn't bring us any closer to determining what makes this sentence different.  The same goes for the hospital example.  "You've been looking better since you've been out of the hospital" IMPLIES "You've been looking better since you got out of the hospital."  

What makes our sentence different?!  Yes, in this case the work happens to be continuous, but so does "being out of the hospital" and "not having had a good pizza."


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## elroy

leenico said:
			
		

> *It has been five years since I have been working for your company. *
> 
> "Have been working," to me implies that the person is still working for the company.
> 
> *It has been five years since I worked for your company. *
> 
> "worked," to me implies that the person has not worked for the company for the last five years.



Are you saying the first sentence sounds ok?


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## timpeac

elroy said:
			
		

> Why can't "It has been five years since I have been working for you" also mean "It has been five years since I started working here"? I'm not saying it should; I'm just saying that the "specific event" is implied in both cases and doesn't bring us any closer to determining what makes this sentence different.


 
Yes, this is exactly the bit I don't understand. My instinctive dislike for "It has been five years since I have been working for you", as opposed to some of the other sentences, is such that there simply must be something that distinguishes it, if only I could put my finger on it!!


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## Kelly B

You’re looking much better since you’ve been out of hospital.
This is ok because "out of hospital" is not a continuous verb form. It is a descriptive (adjective?) phrase.
MY finger is pounding on it! Well, on the keyboard. It keeps straying towards the "caps lock" key but I'm holding it at bay.


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## elroy

Kelly B said:
			
		

> You’re looking much better since you’ve been out of hospital.
> This is ok because "out of hospital" is not a continuous verb form. It is a descriptive (adjective?) phrase.
> MY finger is pounding on it! Well, on the keyboard. It keeps straying towards the "caps lock" key but I'm holding it at bay.



It may be a descriptive phrase but the fact of the matter is that you are still out of hospital since you got out, and you are continuing to be out of hospital.

Similarly, I started working, have been working, and am continuing to work...

PS - "Have been" is also a continuous verb...


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## timpeac

Kelly B said:
			
		

> You’re looking much better since you’ve been out of hospital.
> This is ok because "out of hospital" is not a continuous verb form. It is a descriptive (adjective?) phrase.
> MY finger is pounding on it! Well, on the keyboard. It keeps straying towards the "caps lock" key but I'm holding it at bay.


 
Hold that finger at bay! I think I see now - you couldn't happily use any sentence of the type "i have been living in france" "I have been playing chess" "I have been washing turnips".

The examples that work are not of this type they are "I have been out of hospital" "they have been apart" in both cases there is no present participle! (gerund, whatever, I don't know the difference!) Aha!


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## elroy

timpeac said:
			
		

> Hold that finger at bay! I think I see now - you couldn't happily use any sentence of the type "i have been living in france" "I have been playing chess" "I have been washing turnips".
> 
> The examples that work are not of this type they are "I have been out of hospital" "they have been apart" in both cases there is no present participle! (gerund, whatever, I don't know the difference!) Aha!



Hmmmm....that's an interesting explanation!   
I'll have to think about it a little more but I think we're finally getting somewhere here...


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## jacinta

This sentence would sound alright if we changed it to:

It's been 5 years *that* I have been working for you. (has someone already said that??)

but it still doesn't sound good to me, just because, as you say, Tim, we wouldn't use the progressive (gerund) in this case.  

sounds better as:  It's been 5 years now that I've worked for you.  He can still be working for him.
It's been 5 years now since I've worked for you.  He doesn't work for him now.


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## sound shift

"It has been five years since I have been working for your company" means nothing to me because I have never come across a sentence of this type before.

If I stopped working for the company five years ago I would say, "It's five years since I worked for your company" or "I haven't worked for your company for five years now".

If I started working for the company five years ago and am still there, I would say, "I have been working for your company for five years".


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## Rajan123

Just Trying,

I think second is right as present perfect continuous has been used.  It connects it with the present time (Person still works in the company till this time) i.e. _I started working for you 5 years ago and still work for you._

If the sentence should mean that  I used to work for you and haven't worked for you for 5 years, then the sentence should be like this : It has been five years since I *did not /worked *for you. (Period of working was ended before five years till now) 


_If I am wrong, please correct me and apologise for giving such a wrong explaination having no sense._


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## junipernest

timpeac said:
			
		

> Hold that finger at bay! I think I see now - you couldn't happily use any sentence of the type "i have been living in france" "I have been playing chess" "I have been washing turnips".
> 
> The examples that work are not of this type they are "I have been out of hospital" "they have been apart" in both cases there is no present participle! (gerund, whatever, I don't know the difference!) Aha!



I think that the "wrong to the ears" part definitely applies to the "have been."  To me the first part, "has been...since," implies something that was completed (is that past participle?).  However the second part, "have been," 
implies something incomplete (present participle???).

So, the "It has been five years since..." part indicates to my brain that 5 years have passed since the conclusion of something, while the "I have been working" part indicates a current ongoing state of affairs.  Just as "I have been studying" = "I study now, and have studied for a while" versus "It has been five years since... studying" = "Five years ago, I studied."

(Just for the record, I picked B, because it reminded me of the construction for the past tense I learned in French 16 years ago:  "Il y a seize ans depuis...")

Any other thoughts?
Cheers
-J.


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## .   1

ameridude said:
			
		

> the sentence is poorly constructed and shouldn't be used. It looks like a direct translation from French, and if a non-native speaker were to use it, I would assume #2 is the intended meaning.


I totally agree and thanks for saving me the trouble.
I consider that the sentence could be interpreted incorrectly by a native speaker but a second languager would probably understand immediately.

.,,


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## almostfreebird

Hi, this must be off the point but I remembered the song "*Since I've Been Loving You"* by Led Zeppelin.

"I've been working from seven to eleven ev'ry night,
I said It kinda makes my life a drag.
Lord, that ain't right, no no!
Since I've Been Loving You,
I'm about to lose my worried mind."


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## marget

We had a discussion on a similar topic a few weeks ago. The title of the thread was "It's a long time since..." I consulted an ESL grammar that stated that the past tense had to be used after "It's been + amount of time +since + verb

I think the example was "It's been two years since I last saw Joe".


Many of the examples I found with since involved a noun after it, not a verb - It's been two years since the accident, for example.


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## mgarizona

It's inelegant as you say but makes perfect sense (#2) in a 'generative grammar' kind of way.

I don't think anyone without an interest in grammar would have any question as to what this meant.


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## KittyCatty

Hi,
I am one of the few who chose it to mean both. At first I thought instinctively that it was the 1st option, but then decided that it _could_ mean option 2. I decided it was a matter of context and so could mean both.


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## dn88

timpeac said:


> Whatever our opinion of what the sentence means, everyone seems to be in agreement that it is horrible. Maybe this is the problem, there is something that doesn't "work" for us and so we do our best to put a "reasonable" interpretation on it, the two most common being options 1 and 2.
> 
> However, why do you think this sentence doesn't work, why does
> 
> "It has been five years since I have been working for your company" sound horrible while
> 
> "It's been five years since they’ve been living apart" sounds fine?
> 
> I think that Kelly could be right in that there is something about the sentence which just doesn't go - but what??



Sorry for bumping such an old thread, but I guess there can be a slight difference hidden in the fact that "they've been living apart" has a "negative" meaning (obviously they're not living together anymore; so either way you go, it can't be misinterpreted) and that's probably the main reason why the second sentence seems better. On the other hand, "I have been working for your company" without the other part immediately implies that you still work for the company. Far from being clear, I know, but pretty much sums up my thoughts on this.


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## liliput

I chose the "neither" option. I thought about putting "both" because if someone said this sentence to me I would assume they meant either 1 or 2, but as there's really no way to tell which one, I think "neither" is the best option. It's not at all clear whether the speaker wants to say "It's been five years since I worked for you" or "It's been five years since I started working for you".

To me the sentence is not just horrible, it's clearly nonsensical:
"It's been five years since..." = five years have passed from that time until the present.
"I have been working for you" = I worked for you from some point in the past up to the present.
The two parts of the sentence are completely overlapping each other in time. They simply can't go together in the same sentence.


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## dn88

Maybe that present perfect continuous is the problem. There seems to be no problem with a sentence like:

_It's been so long since we've talked._

As it was pointed out at some point in this thread with the pizza example.


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## Hartish

it has been five years since i have been working for ur coy.


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## Copyright

timpeac said:


> If you could put a comment as to why you think what you do, or suggest any grammar rules *I think we would appreciate it*. Thanks.



This poll just popped up this morning for me and I was about to answer when it said I'd already taken the poll. Must have been a year ago -- I certainly don't remember.

Just a regional comment: I would have said the person began working for the company five years ago and is still working for the company as the only answer. As often happens, I have no grammar rules to contribute. 

This is, unfortunately, a very common construction in Hong Kong and I've grown almost accustomed to it.

On a less discouraging note, I love the bold of the original request above. Amusing way to start the day.


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## Cypherpunk

I think the sentence is a mess, and I would immediately ask for clarification, if someone said this to me.
If the sentence is taken at face value (as correct), and spoken by a native speaker, then I would take it as non-standard Southern or AAVE. The key word would be _since_, signifying that I used to work for you, but I don't work for you any more.


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## Annie Hall

It has sense to me or at least my elementary teachers wanted me to believe so back in the days when I started with basic English. :-D
 As soon as I've read the second one, I immediately thought... well ''duh, he started 5 years ago, and he's still doing it.'' It's what present perfect continuous usually implies - an action that started in the past, has continued up until now or will continue in the future. Of course it may seem vague and out of context and there might be better examples of how to put it but I don't see anything wrong with it.
Just my humble opinion,
Regards,
Annie


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## Dominick

To Elroy #5, and others.

It's been five years since...

Means that something has not been the case for 5 years.  The thing or activity definitely finished by then.  The example sentence makes no sense at all and would never be spoken by a native speaker.

(I have MEd in TESL, BA in Linguistics, ESL teacher 10 years, native speaker 40 years.)


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## preppie

Dominick said:


> To Elroy #5, and others.
> 
> It's been five years since...
> 
> Means that something has not been the case for 5 years.  The thing or activity definitely finished by then.  The example sentence makes no sense at all and would never be spoken by a native speaker.
> 
> (I have MEd in TESL, BA in Linguistics, ESL teacher 10 years, native speaker 40 years.)



I take some issue with "has not been the case" and "definitely finished by then".    I could say, "It's been five years since I started ..."  I guess that would imply that it's also been 5 years since i wasn't doing whatever it was I started (?) but that's not the crux of the sentence.

But I'm just a math geek.


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## JulianStuart

> It's been five years since I Xed


Xed needs to be a specific,_ completed _action/event _not_ a continuing action.  So you _could_ have "It's been five years since I started Xing" since "start" is an event.  You could not have "It's been five years since I have been Xing" because that's not a completed event/action.  

_Since_ is a word that is the direct translation of words from other languages that have different requirements for tenses in their original language.  This causes confusion for them using since in English.


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