# Urdu: jannat, any old garden?



## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Except that jannat is a generic term for garden.





QURESHPOR said:


> I would suggest that in terms of our religious, cultural and literary use of the word, it meaning is very specific.
> 
> ham ko ma3luum hai *jannat* kii Haqiiqat lekin
> dil ke xush rakhne ko yih xayaal achchhaa hai
> 
> Ghalib





BelligerentPacifist said:


> jannat is also a women's name in the Punjab, and so is Hadiiqah apparently. What would the parents have been thinking when they gave them those names, I think more likely a garden than The garden.


I am starting a new thread, otherwise there would have been more and more off topic comments. Your views please. How do you perceive the word "jannat" in (y)our religious, cultural and linguistic background?


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## UrduMedium

^ I understand that in Arabic _jannat_/_jannah _refers to a garden, and as a term, to paradise (extension of the garden metaphor). However, I'm unfamiliar with this meaning of the word (jannat=garden) in Urdu, be it as a word or someone's name. In Urdu, per my experience, it almost always refers to paradise. Not only in religious literature, but everywhere.


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## Qureshpor

Re: jannat as a female name, I assume the arrival of the child in the eyes of the parents is equivalent to attaining paradise. vuh yahii samajhte haiN kih Allah ta3aalaa ne unheN isii dunyaa meN jannat 3ataa farmaa'ii hai. 

Re: Hadiiqah (Kiyaani), if my memory serves me right, Hadiiqah is a walled garden. We all know that people don't always go into the intricacies of meanings of names. Hadiiqah sounds like a good name for a female and more often than not a choice is made just on the way a word is perceived by people.

When I am mowing my lawn, I don't think of mowing my "jannat" but my "baaGiichah" or "baaGh". When I am in a particularly literary mood, I could even imagine it being "chaman" but never, alas, jannat!


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## Faylasoof

This is how I see it:
*
jannat* ( = _jannah_ = paradise / garden [in Arabic]) = *Paradise* = *firdaus* (from a cognate in Syriac, derived in turn from _paradaezaa_ of Ancient Persian which also gave the word _paradise_ to English = *Walled garden*!= *Hadiiqah*)


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## marrish

jannat is by no means a generic term for a garden as far as Urdu is concerned, it means always 'paradise'. I also don't think the parents giving such a name to the child are aware of the meaning 'a garden' as contrasted with "The Garden".


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## Qureshpor

From Arabic perspective, the plural for "jannah" (jannat) is "jinaan". Here is Platts entry for it.

A جنان  _jinān_, s.f. pl. (of _jannat_), Gardens (planted with trees); the regions of *paradise*.

This is how Iqbal has used this word in "taraanah-i-Hindi".

godii meN kheltii haiN is kii hazaaroN nadiyaaN
gulshan hai jis ke dam se rashk-i-jinaaN hamaaraa

In its lap do play and frolic thousands of streams 
The vigour of our rose garden is the envy of Paradise 

http://www.oocities.org/drmuhammadiqbal/39.htm

So, even in the plural the meaning seems to point more towards Paradise than gardens.


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## greatbear

The often-quoted Platts, which to some here is _the _authority whenever it suits them and which is an Urdu-Hindi dictionary and not an Arabic one, says "garden" also as the meaning of "jannat", not just paradise. Here: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:736.platts 

As for the plural, there is only one meaning given: Gardens. Here: http://dsal.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/philologic/getobject.pl?c.3:1:694.platts


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## eskandar

QURESHPOR said:


> Re: Hadiiqah (Kiyaani), if my memory serves me right, Hadiiqah is a walled garden.


Interestingly enough, فردوس apparently also referred to a walled garden specifically (see full etymology here). At least in modern Arabic, I believe حديقة refers to any garden and not just a walled garden, though it may have a different connotation in Urdu/Punjabi.

Also perhaps of interest here, Egyptian Arabic uses the diminutive form of جنة (which is جنينة) for 'garden'--any garden, not just The garden as it were.


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## tonyspeed

This would be a much more interesting thread for Arabic speakers as I beleive the cross-language usage has limited its connotations in Urdu.


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## hindiurdu

To add my 2¢, I don't think in *normal* usage in the subcontinent 'jannat' ever means anything other than paradise. For example, you'll find a book called "_Bagh-e-Jannat_" and a neighborhood called "_Gulshan-e-Jannat_". What would this mean "garden of garden"? It's got to mean paradise. However, I also found an Indian attar (perfume) called "Jannat ul-Firdaus" (eBay link so don't want to include it here) though that seems like a knock-off of an Arab alcohol-free perfume of the same name (I could be wrong).


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> This would be a much more interesting thread for Arabic speakers as I beleive the cross-language usage has limited its connotations in Urdu.


The thread was begun specifically for Subcontinental Muslim cultural and literary stance on the word "jannat", hence the deliberate choice of Urdu in the title. It all began due to this couplet and BG SaaHib's comment on "jannat", as quoted in post 1.

jin ke sar ho 3ishq kii chhaa'oN
paa'oN ke niiche *jannat* ho gii

I don't believe Gulzar had an ordinary garden in mind here.


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## Qureshpor

hindiurdu said:


> To add my 2¢, I don't think in *normal* usage in the subcontinent 'jannat' ever means anything other than paradise. For example, you'll find a book called "_Bagh-e-Jannat_" and a neighborhood called "_Gulshan-e-Jannat_". What would this mean "garden of garden"? It's got to mean paradise. However, I also found an Indian attar (perfume) called "Jannat ul-Firdaus" (eBay link so don't want to include it here) though that seems like a knock-off of an Arab alcohol-free perfume of the same name (I could be wrong).



In your first two examples (Bagh-e-Jannat and Gulshan-e-Jannat), the word "Jannat" does indeed mean Paradise but in "*Jannat*-ul-Firdaus", I would suggest it implies "*The garden* of Paradise".


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## Qureshpor

eskandar said:


> Interestingly enough, فردوس apparently also referred to a walled garden specifically (see full etymology here). At least in modern Arabic, I believe حديقة refers to any garden and not just a walled garden, though it may have a different connotation in Urdu/Punjabi.


Faylasoof SaaHib has already pointed out (post 4) regarding Firdaus being a walled garden. Hadiiqat-ul-Haqiiqah (The Walled Garden of Truth) by Sanai is the obvious example that comes to mind. I am aware of its usage in Modern Arabic, especially Hadiiqah al-Haiwanaat (zoo).


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## tonyspeed

QURESHPOR said:


> The thread was begun specifically for Subcontinental Muslim cultural and literary stance on the word "jannat", hence the deliberate choice of Urdu in the title. It all began due to this couplet and BG SaaHib's comment on "jannat", as quoted in post 1.
> 
> jin ke sar ho 3ishq kii chhaa'oN
> paa'oN ke niiche *jannat* ho gii
> 
> I don't believe Gulzar had an ordinary garden in mind here.



Yes, in fact, garden here would make little sense. He must be talking about THE garden jise xudaa ne rach diyaa.


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## Cilquiestsuens

QURESHPOR said:


> I am aware of its usage in Modern Arabic, especially Hadiiqah al-H*ai*wanaat (zoo).




I am sure you meant to say Hadiiqah al H*aya*waanaat.


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## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> I am sure you meant to say Hadiiqah al H*aya*waanaat.


Indeed I did. Thank you for the correction Cilquiestsuens SaaHib. In fact, it was many years ago whilst going through Linguaphone's Arabic course that I became aware of the difference in Urdu pronunication of the word (Haivaan) and its Arabic counterpart (Hayawaan)!


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## marrish

Thanks for this new piece of information. Not only Urdu but Persian too has it without 'a'.


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## Faylasoof

eskandar said:


> Interestingly enough, فردوس apparently also referred to a walled garden specifically (see full etymology here). At least in modern Arabic, I believe حديقة refers to any garden and not just a walled garden, though it may have a different connotation in Urdu/Punjabi.
> 
> Also perhaps of interest here, Egyptian Arabic uses the diminutive form of جنة (which is جنينة) for 'garden'--any garden, not just The garden as it were.


 eskandar SaaHib, the etymology reference you provide misses a crucial link-language, viz. Syriac! As I mention above:


Faylasoof said:


> This is how I see it:
> *
> jannat* ( = _jannah_ = paradise / garden [in Arabic]) = *Paradise* = *firdaus* (from a cognate in Syriac, derived in turn from _paradaezaa_ of Ancient Persian which also gave the word _paradise_ to English = *Walled garden*!= *Hadiiqah*)


 But otherwise yes, _firdaus_ is also a walled garden! However, in both Urdu and Persian the commonly understood meaning of *firdaus* is the same as *jannat* = Paradise.

All our lexicons state the same including the often cited Platts where the word paradise occurs in all shades of meanings

P جنت _jannat_ (for A. جنة), s.f. The garden, the abode  of recompense, paradise:—_jannat-ārām-gāh_, _jannat-āshiyānī_, Whose place of rest is paradise; the deceased or late (king, &c.):—_jannatuʼl-bilād_, The paradise of regions, an epithet of Bengal:—_jannat-ě-ʻadan_, The garden of Eden:—_jannat-ě-māwā_, The paradise of rest:—_jannat-ě-něʻm_, _jannat-ě-naʻīm_, The garden of delight, a paradise so called:—_jannat-makān_, _jannat-naṣīb_, Whose abode or lot is paradise.

[BTW, the English word Eden is ultimately derived from the Sumerian word _oden_ (or an approximation thereof, meaning _a rolling field_). This too is something missed by the online Etymology Dictionary.]


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