# Persian: If you're free let's go together.



## Grimma

How can one say "If you are free let's go together." in Persian?
Should it be اگر آزادید باھم برویم or اگر آزاد بودید باھم برویم or اگر آزاد باشید باھم برویم?


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## truce

اگر وقت داری بیا با هم بریم.
Or
اگر وقتت آزاده بیا با هم بریم.
Or
اگر وقت آزاد داری بیا با هم بریم
Or
اگر الان آزادی بیا با هم بریم


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## Grimma

Thank you. What about the sentences I wrote? Are all of them wrong?


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## fdb

I wonder if there are any classical/pre-modern references for āzād(a) meaning “free” in the sense “not busy”, rather than “not in bondage” or “noble”.


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## PersoLatin

Grimma said:


> What about the sentences I wrote? Are all of them wrong?





Grimma said:


> Should it be اگر آزادید باھم برویم or اگر آزاد بودید باھم برویم or اگر آزاد باشید باھم برویم?


This formal version works fine اگر آزادید باھم برویم, meaning: 'if you are free we go/we'll go together' for versions with 'let's', check truce's post.

The other two don't but you can correct them as:

اگر آزاد باشید باھم مى رويم - if you are free we go/we'll go together
اگر آزاد بوديد باھم مى رفتيم - if you were free, we could have gone together


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## Grimma

PersoLatin said:


> This formal version works fine اگر آزادید باھم برویم, the others don't.



That's really strange. I mean, if you wanted to say, "If you need anything, let me know." wouldn't you say:

اگر بچیزی احتیاج *داشتید* برایم تعریف کنید

and not اگر بچیزی احتیاج *دارید* برایم تعریف کنید

I mean that you would use the PAST tense, not the present tense. Similarly, you should say اگر آزاد *بودید* باھم برویم rather than اگر آزادید, shouldn't you?


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## PersoLatin

^ Sorry Grimma, I was still editing....

ا





Grimma said:


> اگر بچيزی احتیاج *داشتید* برایم تعریف کنید
> 
> and not اگر بچیزی احتیاج *دارید* برایم تعریف کنید


*Both* of these work fine and mean exactly the same, however it is more common to say بمن بگوئيد rather than برايم تعريف كنيد

اگر آزاد بودید باھم برویم and اگر آزاد باشید باھم برویم will work fine as questions, meaning: shall we go together if you are free?


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## molana

Grimma said:


> اگر به چیزی احتیاج *داشتید* به من بگویید/به من اطلاع دهید
> 
> and not اگر به چیزی احتیاج *دارید* به من بگویید/به من اطلاع دهید


These two sentences are usually used in different contexts. The former may be used in a _possible _situation and the latter in a _likely/probable_ one. This is also the case in French:
Si (*jamais) *tu *avais *besoin d'argent, dis-moi.=If you (*ever) need *money, let me know.
.اگه (*یه موقع)* پول لازم *داشتی*، به من بگو
Si tu *a *besoin d'argent, dis-moi.=If you *need *money, tell me.
.اگه پول لازم *داری*، به من بگو


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## PersoLatin

molana said:


> These two sentences are usually used in different contexts. The former may be used in a _possible _situation and the latter in a _likely/probable_ one. This is also the case in French:
> Si (*jamais) *tu *avais *besoin d'argent, dis-moi.=If you (*ever) need *money, let me know.
> .اگه (*یه موقع)* پول لازم *داشتی*، به من بگو
> Si tu *a *besoin d'argent, dis-moi.=If you *need *money, let me know.
> .اگه پول لاز


Hi molana, اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو AND اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم دارى، به من بگو, are the same, with or without يه موقع, don't you agree? There must be a subtle difference between the two but, in the Persian versions, possibility or likelyhood isn't it, at least I can't see it that way.

^
However I can see a difference here:
اگر هوا خوب بود مى ريم بيرون and  اگر هوا خوب بشه مى ريم بيرون both refer to the same future event, with the same probability of occurance, except that in the version with بشه, the weather is already bad, but the possibility of it being bad, later, is the same in both versions, so these are used in different contexts.

I think the difference between داشتى and دارى above, is just a question of when in the time, e.g. now & in future but with the same probability of occurances.


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## Jamal31

Grimma said:


> Thank you. What about the sentences I wrote? Are all of them wrong?





Grimma said:


> اگر آزادید باھم برویم
> اگر آزاد بودید باھم برویم?


These two can work, however in some circumstances "آزادید" can mean 'loose' (i.e. sexually loose). I would say وقت آزاد instead.


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## PersoLatin

Jamal31 said:


> however in some circumstances "آزادید" can mean 'loose' (i.e. sexually loose).


Hi jamal31, that's not the case in modern Persian, in any circumstance.


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## molana

PersoLatin said:


> hi molana, اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو AND اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم دارى، به من بگو, are the same, with or without يه موقع, don't you agree? There must be a subtle difference between the two but, in the Persian versions, possibility or likelyhood isn't it, at least I can't see it that way.


Hi PersoLatin,
When I say اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو, I usually consider it as a possibility, i.e. a fifty-fifty chance. In other words, you may/may not need money in the future.
But when I say اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم دارى، به من بگو, I usually consider it as a likelihood/probability. In other words, I guess and have the feeling that you need money now.
However, it is a subtle difference as you pointed out.


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## colognial

fdb said:


> I wonder if there are any classical/pre-modern references for āzād(a) meaning “free” in the sense “not busy”, rather than “not in bondage” or “noble”.



Hello, fdb! I think I've come across _beit_s, or at least one _beit_, by Hafez in which آزاد was accompanied by فارغ. Now, unless I'm mistaken, فارغ is a term that suggests 'having gotten shut of something', so that the person who is فارغ is indeed at leisure and has free time on his/her hands. Unfortunately I cannot pinpoint the _beit_(s), not from memory. But if this was how Hafez had used the word, would you see there that slight shift in the meaning of the word آزاد in the direction you have in mind?


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> Hello, fdb! I think I've come across _beit_s, or at least one _beit_, by Hafez in which آزاد was accompanied by فارغ.


Hi colognial, try this link, it should show the result of a search on Ganjoor for آزاد (for حافظ only), I can not check the list of results myself until later.


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## colognial

Great, cheers! I'll check it straightaway. Nice work, thanks, PersoLatin!

سعی نابرده در این راه به جایی نرسی

مزد اگر می‌طلبی طاعت استاد ببر

روز مرگم نفسی وعده دیدار بده

وان گهم تا به لحد فارغ و آزاد ببر

The starting line of verse goes: روی بنمای و وجود من ام از یاد ببر خرمن سوختگان را همه گو باد ببر


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## All About the Benjamins

molana said:


> Hi PersoLatin,
> When I say اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو, I usually consider it as a possibility, i.e. a fifty-fifty chance. In other words, you may/may not need money in the future.
> But when I say اگه (یه موقع) پول لازم دارى، به من بگو, I usually consider it as a likelihood/probability. In other words, I guess and have the feeling that you need money now.
> However, it is a subtle difference as you pointed out.



What about the third possibility:
اگر پول لازم داشته باشي به من بگو
What is the difference between this and the other two possiblities that you explained above?


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## PersoLatin

All About the Benjamins said:


> What about the third possibility:
> اگر پول لازم داشته باشي به من بگو
> What is the difference between this and the other two possiblities that you explained above?


I previously said there is a difference between داشتى and دارى:


PersoLatin said:


> I think the difference between داشتى and دارى above, is just a question of when in the time, e.g. now & in future but with the same probability of occurances.


اگه پول لازم دارى، به من بگو is used/applicable in the present time, and اگه پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو is used for an unspecific time in future.
Example 1: You meet a close friend in the cinema as he's about to pay for his ticket, but he appears to be short of money. You'll say to him (there & then) اگه پول لازم دارى، به من بگو - if you need money, tell me.
Example 2: You meet the same friend later and he tells you about his financial woes. You might say to him اگه پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو - if you need money (in future) tell me i.e. next (unspecified) time you are in trouble, ask me.

I think this sentence اگر پول لازم داشته باشي به من بگو  is used in the same context as اگه پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو, but I think it's grammar may not be correct and should be changed to suit another context اگر پول لازم داشته باشي باید بمن بگی meaning 'if you need money you ought to tell me (first)'


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## All About the Benjamins

I think that the difference between اگر ببینمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم and اگر دیدمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم is pertinent here: they both mean "If I see him, I'll give him your regards.", but the former implies that the speaker is doubtful whether he will see him/her, while the latter shows that the speaker thinks that he will probably see him/her.
The same difference exists between اگر بروید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید and اگر رفتید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید. In the former, the speaker is not sure if the person he is talking to will go. But in the latter, he thinks there's a good chance his interlocutor will go (but he still has some doubt).

Am I correct, PersoLatin?


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## molana

All About the Benjamins said:


> I think that the difference between اگر ببینمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم and اگر دیدمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم is pertinent here: they both mean "If I see him, I'll give him your regards.", but the former implies that the speaker is doubtful whether he will see him/her, while the latter shows that the speaker thinks that he will probably see him/her.
> The same difference exists between اگر بروید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید and اگر رفتید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید. In the former, the speaker is not sure if the person he is talking to will go. But in the latter, he thinks there's a good chance his interlocutor will go (but he still has some doubt).


Exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for helping to further this thread.


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## Jamal31

PersoLatin said:


> Hi jamal31, that's not the case in modern Persian, in any circumstance.


Hey PersoLatin,

Are you sure about that? I remember hearing the word "آزاد" to refer to sexually loose in many circumstances. For example:

"اونها زناشون خیلی آزادن" saying: "their women are very free (i.e. sexually active with other than their husbands)"
"تو خیلی آزادی" saying: "you are very free (i.e. promiscuous)"


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## PersoLatin

Jamal31 said:


> Are you sure about that? I remember hearing the word "آزاد" to refer to sexually loose in many circumstances. For example:
> 
> "اونها زناشون خیلی آزادن" saying: "their women are very free (i.e. sexually active with other than their husbands)"
> "تو خیلی آزادی" saying: "you are very free (i.e. promiscuous)"


I am, i don't believe in normal conversations, Iranians will read into those two sentences, what you believe you have seen. I personally don't know any Iranians who'd interpret those sentences that way, and I mean in Iran, as well as outside it.

Maybe in very conservative religious circles, after they have created some pretext, the type only those guys are capable of creating, yes, but then, those guys blame earthquakes on promiscuous women.


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## molana

Jamal31 said:


> Hey PersoLatin,
> 
> Are you sure about that? I remember hearing the word "آزاد" to refer to sexually loose in many circumstances. For example:
> 
> "اونها زناشون خیلی آزادن" saying: "their women are very free (i.e. sexually active with other than their husbands)"
> "تو خیلی آزادی" saying: "you are very free (i.e. promiscuous)"


What you are trying to say is  ول، ولنگار، بی بند و بار.
آزادبودن has a positive connotation. 


PersoLatin said:


> Maybe in very conservative religious circles, after they have created some pretext, the type only those guys are capable of creating, yes, but then, those guys blame earthquakes on promiscuous women.


Agree with PersoLatin, in patriarchal and misogynous circles one may hear آزادبودن in this pejorative sense.


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## PersoLatin

All About the Benjamins said:


> I think that the difference between اگر ببینمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم and اگر دیدمش، سلام شمارا میراسنم is pertinent here: they both mean "If I see him, I'll give him your regards.", but the former implies that the speaker is doubtful whether he will see him/her, while the latter shows that the speaker thinks that he will probably see him/her.
> The same difference exists between اگر بروید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید and اگر رفتید، اینھا را فراموش نکنید. In the former, the speaker is not sure if the person he is talking to will go. But in the latter, he thinks there's a good chance his interlocutor will go (but he still has some doubt).
> 
> Am I correct, PersoLatin?


I am not convinced, in real life situations these will be used under some pretext, so I'l add some time element to equivalent examples:
دارم میرم دفترش اگه *دیدمش *بهش می‌گم
دارم میرم دفترش اگه *ببینمش *بهش می‌گم
or
الان داره میاد اگه *پرسید *چی؟
الان داره میاد اگه *بپرسه *چی؟
or
وقتی ‏*دیدمش *بهش می‌گم
وقتی *ببینمش *بهش می‌گم
or
اگر فردا *دیدمش*، سلام شمارا میراسنم
اگر فردا *ببینمش*، سلام شمارا میراسنم

In which of these is the likelihood (of action in bold) higher?

As a native speaker, I can not sense any difference between them. The second examples (with ببینمش and بپرسه) are grammatically correct conditional sentences which may give rise to yours and molana's view.

The above are different to my examples:


PersoLatin said:


> Example 1: You meet a close friend in the cinema as he's about to pay for his ticket, but he appears to be short of money. You'll say to him (there & then) اگه پول لازم دارى، به من بگو - if you need money, tell me.
> Example 2: You meet the same friend later and he tells you about his financial woes. You might say to him اگه پول لازم داشتی، به من بگو - if you need money (in future) tell me i.e. next (unspecified) time you are in trouble, ask me.


What is your view on these?


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