# ti starší postupně odcházejí do důchodu



## Tagarela

Ahoj,

I have a little doubt on this phrase from a text of Aktualně: "_Mladí a perspektivní doktoři dávají přednost práci v cizině nebo ve farmaceutických firmách, *ti *starší postupně odcházejí do důchodu._" 

"The young and thinking-on-the-future doctors have preference for jobs in other countries or pharmaceutical companies, *the *old ones little by little go to retirement"

Does* ti* there work somewhow as an article ? And could I rewrite the phrase as "_Mladí (...), *zatímco* starší __postupně odcházejí do důchodu." _?Děkuji moc!

ps: Werrr, see, a text with a real meaning now


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## brotys

Hello,
"ti starší postupně odcházejí do důchodu" means that older doctors are old now and they gradually go to the retirement
Yes, I think that you can rewrite it as "zatímco starší...", it doesn't change the meaning of the sentense.
"ti" is pronoun here


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## werrr

Tagarela said:


> "The young and thinking-on-the-future promising doctors have preference for jobs in other countries or pharmaceutical companies, *the *old ones little by little go to retirement"
> 
> Does* ti* there work somewhow as an article?


More or less, *ti starší* forms the complement to the previously mentioned *mladí (a perspektivní) doktoři*, i.e. it is more explicite form of *ti ostatní* (= the others). Notice the use of the comparative, *ti starší* needn’t be old at all, they are just older than the young ones.



> And could I rewrite the phrase as "_Mladí (...), *zatímco* ti starší __postupně odcházejí do důchodu." _?


A nasty thing about Czech is that mere comma (dash, pause in speech) could work as an arbitrary conjunction. *Zatímco* is a possible and natural conjuction in your sentence. It is not replacement for *ti*.

The omission of conjunction is rather formal figure of speech and it could be ambiguous without proper context, thereof the jokes like that one by Vodňanský and Skoumal:

„Dědečku, vylez z vany, nastydneš se a umřeš!“
Dědeček vylezl z vany, nastydnul se a umřel.



> ps: Werrr, see, a text with a real meaning now


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## Tagarela

werrr said:


> The omission of conjunction is rather formal figure of speech and it could be ambiguous without proper context, thereof the jokes like that one by Vodňanský and Skoumal:
> 
> „Dědečku, vylez z vany, nastydneš se a umřeš!“
> Dědeček vylezl z vany, nastydnul se a umřel.



Thank you both for the explanations!

As for the joke - "Grandpa, go out of the bath, (otherwise) you'll get a cold and die" and "Grandpa left the bath, got a cold and died" ? Sorry, but I couldn't get it.


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## Yimo

Yes *ti* could actually be an article. We have to seperate languages in Czech republic:
- spisovná čeština (mostly unspoken - only written)
- obecná čeština (mostly spoken - written only on boards and chat rooms)

Spisovná čeština doesn't have articles.
Viděl jsi věc v okně?

Obecná čeština has articles:
Viděl si *tu* věc v *tom* okně.

So it depends if you want to interpret it one or other way ...



Tagarela said:


> As for the joke - "Grandpa, go out of the bath, (otherwise) you'll get a cold and die" and "Grandpa left the bath, got a cold and died" ? Sorry, but I couldn't get it.



Yes very good. But the first sentence is a little bit tricky ...

It means:
Grandpa, go out of the bath, (otherwise) you'll get a cold and die.

As well as:
Grandpa, go out of the bath. You'll get a cold and die. 
(announcement what will happend *after* grandpa leave the bath)

And then there's no way for grandpa to stay alive ) ...


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## K.u.r.t

Yimo said:


> Viděl *j*si věc v okně?
> 
> Viděl *j*si *tu* věc v *tom* okně.


just a typo correction ...


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## Yimo

K.u.r.t said:


> just a typo correction ...


  Agreed. But only in spisovná čeština ...


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## werrr

Yimo said:


> Yes *ti* could actually be an article.


No, it’s demostrative pronoun. Demostratives and articles have a lot in common, but they are still different.



> We have to seperate languages in Czech republic:
> - spisovná čeština (mostly unspoken - only written)


Spisovná čeština (Standard Czech) is both written and spoken and its spoken variant is called hovorová čeština.



> - obecná čeština (mostly spoken - written only on boards and chat rooms)


Obecná čeština is the most common colloquial form of Czech, but it is spoken only in some regions.



> Spisovná čeština doesn't have articles.
> Viděl jsi věc v okně?
> 
> Obecná čeština has articles:
> Viděl si *tu* věc v *tom* okně.


Modern Czech has no articles (except of ancient articles incorporated in some compound forms, like long form adjectives).

As for the use of demonstratives, there is no difference between spisovná and obecná čeština. The sentence has different meaning with the demonstratives and the meaning is identical in both variants of Czech.
But the demonstratives are frequent parasitic words in spoken Czech.


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## Yimo

werrr said:


> Modern Czech has no articles (except of ancient articles incorporated in some compound forms, like long form adjectives).


I have to disagree. But that's the beauty of diversity.
(At least here on MU in subject Formální struktury přirozeného jazyka we've been told different and I agree with it.)


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