# Irish Gaelic:  maithiúnas



## L'irlandais

Hullo,





> In Irish maithiúnas is a masculine noun meaning forgiveness or pardon.
> Source : Oxford Irish Dictionary (hardcopy).


I was wondering if somebody could explain a little the make-up of this word.  It's based on the verbal noun *maitheamh* = to forgive ;  what change is it subjected to?  I am looking to gain a better understanding of previous generation's way of forming such words.  That, and perhaps an insight into their particular way of looking at the notion of _forgiveness_ in it's own right.

Any ideas on the subject would be appreciated.


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## elirlandes

My natural inclination is to work on the basis that _*-únas*_ is a standard suffix which, when added to a word or verb stem (in this case maith- from maitheamh) provides a derivitive noun. Obviously, in this case it takes an "i" at the beginning to match standard spelling rules ("caol le caol").

Other examples that come to mind (veeeeeeery slowly!) are :

- ciúinaigh (v. to quieten) ciúnas (n. silence)
- rathaigh (v. to thrive) rathúnas (n. prosperity)
- ceadaigh (v. to allow) cead (n. permit) ceadúnas (n. license)
- cruthaigh (v. to prove) cruthúnas (n. proof)
...errr... I've run out, but I am sure there are more...

Could it simply be related to the germanic -ness (Eng.) -nis (German) noun-forming suffix ?


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## seanos

It's worth considering the older spelling too - _maitheamhnas_ (_maithiúnas_) is just and extension of _maitheamh_.  I suppose there is some small step up in abstraction between the verbal noun (still connected to action) and the pure noun _-nas_ form.  All of the examples above seem to be formed from verbal nouns originally ending in _-mh_, though you could probably make a long list of abstract nouns with this ending.

A  quick search at corpas.focloir.ie ([word=".*nas"] containing   [tag="N.*"] - not sure if I've got this query language quite right)   yields 20762 hits (1039 pages), though that includes many  duplicates.

A couple of different cases:

_breithiúnas_ (_breitheamhnas_): from a noun, _breitheamh_.
_ceannas_: > noun, _ceann_.
_coiteannas_: > noun or adj. _coiteann_.
_riachtanas:_ from an adjective? _riachtanach_.
_dliteanas_: > verbal adjective? _dlite_ >_ dligh_. (Dinneen has _dlisteanas_ presum. > _dlisteanach_)
_bronntanas_: > v.adj. _bronnta_ > _bronn_.
_gealltanas_: > verbal adj. _geallta_? or plural _geallta_?
_searmanas_: ?

On reflection maybe the _-ness_ analogy is a complete furphy.  I think the ending is really _-as_ with the _-n-_ coming in for some other reason.  Consider _aontas, rialtas, cuntas, iarratas, iontas _(vs. _ionadh_), srl. - where does that _-t-_ come from?


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## L'irlandais

Thanks for those great replies.  I had forgotten the broad vowel/slender vowel rule.

Okay then sticking to the verb stem idea.
maith- (forgive)verb / maitheamh  (to forgive)verbal noun / maithiúnas (forgiveness)noun
breith (judgement)noun / breitheamh (judge)noun / breithiúnas (judgment)noun

I think my pocket dictionary is out of it's depth here. Is their a verbal noun for breitheamh, or the other suggestions? (Thinking out loud.)

... *ceadúnaigh *(to license)verb ceadúnas (license)noun

I will have a look at the other suggestions later on.


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## CapnPrep

seanos said:


> On reflection maybe the _-ness_ analogy is a complete furphy.  I think the ending is really _-as_ with the _-n-_ coming in for some other reason.


English _-ness_ is also originally "the _-n-_  of Germanic _n_-stems + the Germanic base of _-assu-_, the suffix attested in Gothic _ufarassus_  abundance" (OED, s.v. -ness, _suffix_). They also suggest a parallel with "Old Irish _-es_, _-as_, mainly in denominative formations (e.g. Old Irish _ólachas_  youth  <  _ólach_  young man; compare Welsh _teyrnas_  dominion  <  _teyrn_  lord)".


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## seanos

My knowledge of Old Irish is too hazy to be of help but my intuition was that the _-n-_ (_-t-_) had to do with a particular case or a class of nouns.



CapnPrep said:


> ...Old Irish _ólachas_  youth <  _ólach_  young man; compare Welsh _teyrnas_  dominion  <  _teyrn_  lord...



Hmm...I think you mean _ó*c*lachas_ > _ó*c*lach_.  _Ólachas_ (not that it exists as a word) would suggest something rather different...more like alcoholism!

The Welsh example exists in Irish also: _tiarnas_ > _tiarna_.

In any case the common thread seems to be taking a particular and turning it into an abstract.

So, did Old Norse do this too?


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## CapnPrep

seanos said:


> Hmm...I think you mean _ó*c*lachas_ > _ó*c*lach_.  _Ólachas_ (not that it exists as a word) would suggest something rather different...more like alcoholism!


You are quite right, but the typo is in the OED… Maybe someone should let them know.


seanos said:


> The Welsh example exists in Irish also: _tiarnas_ > _tiarna_.


It may be worth mentioning that derivations with the suffix _-as_ are feminine in Welsh, while the suffix is masculine in Irish.


seanos said:


> So, did Old Norse do this too?


From the OED, again: "No evidence of the suffix can be found in North Germanic."


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## L'irlandais

seanos said:


> My knowledge of Old Irish is too hazy ...
> In any case the common thread seems to be taking a particular and turning it into an abstract...


I agree.  My own modern Irish isn't up to such abstract thoughts either.  However I do wonder if the OED wasn't referring to " Óglach" now that we've mentioned it.

Although Óglach only means "Volunteer now-a-days as in Óglach na hÉireann _(Irish Volunteer)_, Óglach in the days of Gráinne Mhaol _(c. 1530 -c. 1603)_ meant something like *young warrior*, rooted in the word óg = young.  In any case these words are steeped in political connotations and so are far from the gist of my original post.


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