# Bosnian (BCS): bosanski standardni jezik



## phosphore

Dobar dan,

Ova diskusija me je podsetila da je meni ostalo nejasno koje telo se bavi bošnjačkim standardnim jezikom, da li je sačinjen rečnik i pravopis i koliko je taj standard realno zastupljen. Da li mi neko može reći gde bih o svemu tome mogao više saznati?

Hvala unapred.


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## Majalj

Jezik se zove bosanski. Ima i rječnik i pravopis. Standard je zastupljen u obrazovnim institucijama i medijima. Mislim da je tijelo za koje pitaš Akademija nauka i umjetnosti BiH. 
Imaš ovdje dosta: http://bs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosanski_jezik. Pretpostavljam da dalje googlati znaš i sam.


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## sokol

Majalj said:


> Jezik se zove bosanski.


I have seen both "bosanski jezik" and "bošnjački jezik" - so is "bosanski jezik" the official name now?
I've also read about different points of views and attitudes towards this new standard language - some (and I think this is mainstream) see it just as a continuation of the standard language as used in Bosnia in the Yougoslav Republic - a standard variety which is in many ways a bridge between Serbian and Croatian and yet different -, while others tried to introduce words and features of Muslim Bosnian dialects into this new standard (which I think wasn't even mainstream during the war).

But I'm not really up to date concerning Bosnian, didn't read anything about its development for some years now.


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## Majalj

sokol said:


> I have seen both "bosanski jezik" and "bošnjački jezik" - so is "bosanski jezik" the official name now?


"Bosanski" has always been the official name.  The term "Bošnjački" is sometimes used out of the lack of information, but oftentimes it is malevolent.


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## sokol

Changed thread title then, thanks, Majalj!

And another thing, concerning the original question, phosphore: a Bosnian linguist called Asim Peco has written plenty about Bosnian (both standard language and dialects) but I don't know if his books are still up to date, or if he's still active as a linguist.

The gist of what I remember about Bosnian standard language is that Bosnian is _*not,*_ as believed widely, a "mix of Serbian and Croatian" but a new and different combination of several linguistic features which developed naturally over a longer period of time and is not at all an "invention" of recent times. That's not much, I'm the first one to admit, but that's about all I could contribute.


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## phosphore

Majalj said:


> "Bosanski" has always been the official name. The term "Bošnjački" is sometimes used out of the lack of information, but oftentimes it is malevolent.


 
I am sorry, I was convinced it was the other way round.

Anyway, this is all I found on Bosnian Wikipedia:



> Raspadom Jugoslavije i za vrijeme agresije na Bosnu i Hercegovinu otpočela je konačna standardizacija bosanskog jezika, i to u rječnicima Alije Isakovića, pravopisu Senahida Halilovića i gramatikama Dževada Jahića i Senahida Halilovića.


 
or on Serbian Wikipedia: 



> Raspadom SFRJ i ratom u Bosni i Hercegovini otpočela je konačna standardizacija bosanskog jezika, i to u rječnicima Alije Isakovića, pravopisu Senahida Halilovića i gramatikama Dževada Jahića i Senahida Halilovića.


 
Now I see that "bošnjački" is the term used mainly by the Serbs and the Croats, while "bosanski" is the term used by the Bosniaks.


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## sokol

phosphore said:


> Anyway, this is all I found on Bosnian Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raspadom Jugoslavije i za vrijeme agresije na Bosnu i Hercegovinu otpočela je konačna standardizacija bosanskog jezika, i to u rječnicima Alije Isakovića, pravopisu Senahida Halilovića i gramatikama Dževada Jahića i Senahida Halilovića.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or on Serbian Wikipedia:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Raspadom SFRJ i ratom u Bosni i Hercegovini otpočela je konačna standardizacija bosanskog jezika, i to u rječnicima Alije Isakovića, pravopisu Senahida Halilovića i gramatikama Dževada Jahića i Senahida Halilovića.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Oh well, _those_ - they tried to re-introduce Bosnian Muslim words and phonetical features (like the pronunciation of /h/ as [x] while weakened in many Non-Muslim dialects to  or even deleted).

As far as I know most of this didn't really stick (but I'm curious now how much influence they had on use of Bosnian standard language in Bosnia-Hercegovina).
Even before Yougoslavia disintegrated there already was kind of a Bosnian standard language - hardly noticed by most as the Croatian-Serbian controversy overshadowed it all but nevertheless it existed (and even - I think - had an official name, something like "Bosnian variety of ijekavian standard language" probably?!), different from both Serbian and Croatian, and not just a mix of them (that's the thing I dimly remember from Asim Peco).

Those tendencies during the war were a more radical approach: as well as on the battlefield the war also was fought with words. Or that's how I see it at least.

Of course, even in modern Bosnia Croatians especially in Hercegovina more or less have adopted the Croatian standard language, and I'm not sure about linguistic tendencies among Bosnian Serbs: so it still remains to be seen what will become of Bosnian standard language.


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## slavic_one

Meni "bošnjački jezik" zvuči kao "jezik Bošnjaka", a ne kao ekvivalent "bosanskom" jeziku. Tj. "bosanski" mi zvuči kao pridjev, a "bošnjački" kao posvojna zamjenica.


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## sokol

slavic_one said:


> Meni "bošnjački jezik" zvuči kao "jezik Bošnjaka", a ne kao ekvivalent "bosanskom" jeziku. Tj. "bosanski" mi zvuči kao pridjev, a "bošnjački" kao posvojna zamjenica.


I agree, and I think that those who used "bošnjački jezik" (some Bosnians did during the war, that much I know for a fact) intended to create a more-or-less "Muslim standard language".

As said, and as far as I know, those tendencies never were mainstream and didn't prevail.


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## Majalj

sokol said:


> I agree, and I think that those who used "bošnjački jezik" (some Bosnians did during the war, that much I know for a fact) intended to create a more-or-less "Muslim standard language".


 
I was in Sarajevo during the war, and I wasn't aware od that. 

Nowadays it is used mainly by politicians who want to show how unimportant and uninteresting it is for them that they cannot even remember its name, at the same time not minding to be paid by taxpayers of a country where it is one of the official languages... Thanks for changing the thread title!  If it were my decision I would delete "bošnjački" completely (together with brackets and quotation marks).


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## sokol

Majalj said:


> I was in Sarajevo during the war, and I wasn't aware od that.


Well, I only have it from books and some impressions I gathered from polemics (of which there were plenty, then), and I might well be completely on the wrong track here - I am definitely not an authority on Bosnian standard language and its development.



Majalj said:


> Nowadays it is used mainly by politicians who want to show how unimportant and uninteresting it is for them that they cannot even remember its name, at the same time not minding to be paid by taxpayers of a country where it is one of the official languages... Thanks for changing the thread title!  If it were my decision I would delete "bošnjački" completely (together with brackets and quotation marks).


Done. 
As it isn't the official nor correct name it shouldn't be in the title.


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## Majalj

sokol said:


> Done.
> As it isn't the official nor correct name it shouldn't be in the title.


 
Thanks!


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## Orlin

Koliko ja znam, Bosna i Hercegovina je federacija Srba, Hrvata i Bošnjaka, i Bošnjaci govore na bosanskom. Na kakvom jeziku govore Srbi i Hrvati u BiH (na srpskom i hrvatskom rsp.)?


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## sokol

Orlin said:


> Koliko ja znam, Bosna i Hercegovina je federacija Srba, Hrvata i Bošnjaka, i Bošnjaci govore na bosanskom. Na kakvom jeziku govore Srbi i Hrvati u BiH (na srpskom i hrvatskom rsp.)?


I should have searched for other topics on this before (one of which I started myself ).

Have a look at this post by Athaulf where he confirms that Croats in Bosnia more or less have adopted Croatian standard language while Bosnian Serbs use ijekavian Serbian standard language - for them Cyrillic script is the crucial identity marker.

There were however attempts to introduce ekavian Serbian in Bosnian, which Athaulf and other native speakers have confirmed as being comical and short-lived; I've once opened a thread about this specific topic - see here (where I quote an article which obviously - confirmed by native speakers - contains exaggerations and is incorrect in many ways).

So it is probably save to say that both Bosnian Muslims and Bosnian Serbs still use _bosanski standardni jezik_ while Bosnian Croats predominantly use _hrvatski standardni jezik_. More or less.

Before independence of Bosnia both scripts were teached in school, in fact great emphasis was put on both Latinica and Ćirilica being used approximately in equal percentages: this I know from readings on language politics in Yougoslavia.
I don't know if this tradition is continued among Bosnian Muslims; I guess it isn't among Bosnian Croats.


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## Majalj

sokol said:


> I don't know if this tradition is continued among Bosnian Muslims


 
Ne sa toliko ažurnosti kao ranije, ali se ćirilica uči. Neki udžbenici su ćirilicom i izgovor da je neka lektira ili neki izvog bio ćirilicom pa je "nismo mogli pročitati" se ne prihvaća tokom cijelog školovanja. 

U školama u Federaciji koje rade po bosanskom planu i programu se uče sva tri jezika (i pripadajuće književnosti) i oba pisma, u školama koje rade po hrvatskom planu i programu samo hrvatski jezik (za književnost nisam sigurna), a u školama u Republici Srpskoj samo srpski (opet nisam sigurna za književnost).  
Ps. Ovdje govorim o tome kako se predmeti u školama zvanično zovu i kakav im je plan i program.  Kako pojedini učitelji to tretiraju i šta se zaista dešava na terenu, nisam sigurna.


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## doorman

Majalj said:


> U školama u Federaciji koje rade po bosanskom planu i programu se uče sva tri jezika (i pripadajuće književnosti) i oba pisma, u školama koje rade po hrvatskom planu i programu samo hrvatski jezik (za književnost nisam sigurna), a u školama u Republici Srpskoj samo srpski (opet nisam sigurna za književnost).
> Ps. Ovdje govorim o tome kako se predmeti u školama zvanično zovu i kakav im je plan i program.  Kako pojedini učitelji to tretiraju i šta se zaista dešava na terenu, nisam sigurna.



Mora da se brizni ucenici (a i njihovi roditelji) hvataju za glavu. Znaci, teoretski moguce je preseliti klinca u skolu u istom gradu a da ono uci nesto sasvim drugo?


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## Majalj

U Sarajevu - manje više da. Većina škola radi po bosanskom planu i programu, i pohađaju ih djeca svih nacionalnosti. Ako žele slušati nastavu po npr. hrvatskom nastavnom planu i programu, mogu se prebaciti u npr. Katolički školski centar, gdje će ih primiti u zavisnosti od uspjeha, bez obzira na nacionalnost. Pored KŠC-a, ima još određeni broj osnovnih škola koje nude različite opcije (francuska, turska, nekakva međunarodna, Montessori, itd.). U srednjim školama je još veća raznolikost uz puno privatnih škola (npr. ja predajem u IB školi: http://www.ibo.org/). 

Međutim, u drugim gradovima je situacija tako go.nasta da prosto ne mogu vjerovati da se dešava u 21. stoljeću. Naime, u istim zgradama rade škole po dva različita programa. Taj fenomen se zove "dvije škole pod jednim krovom" link (ovdje ide onaj emoticon što povraća). U istoj zgradi se odvija nastava po hrvatskom i po bosanskom npp-u, i rade dva različita nastavnička vijeća (direktora, uprave, administracije, i sve što ide uz to). Hrvatski npp mahom pohađaju djeca Hrvata, a bosanski Bošnjaka. Rade uglavnom u odvojenim smjenama. U Stocu rade u istoj smjeni, ali ulaze na različite ulaze. A dok ovi ulaze ovi ih gađaju kamenjem. Takav apsurd i takva budalaština, da ne možeš vjerovati. I možeš zamisliti da nije moguće prebaciti dijete u drugi dio zgrade. 

Kao što neko reče na onoj temi o jeziku u EU, nas zaista treba posmatrati kao različite etničke, nacionalne, kulturološke, i šta sve ne, cjeline, ali ovo što se dešava je apsurdno. Ako je generacija koja je odgajana u duhu bratstva i jedinstva pokrenula onakav krvav rat, šta će uraditi ovi koji sa osam godina gađaju kamenom one druge... 

Ispričavam se moderatorima na off topic-u. Jbg, tišti me, pa onda frustracija izbija na sve strane.


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## sokol

Majalj, I sympathise, I understand how frustrating such ethnical separation can be, and to describe the situation as such in a way is relevant to the topic at hand.
(I recovered your link, for some reason yours didn't work.)
(Also it is interesting for me to learn that in Sarajevo the situation still is more or less normal while in other towns it isn't. On a side note, such ethnic separation in schooling system also exists in Southern Tyrol and in Southern Carinthia - even though I guess situation there will be more relaxed than in Bosnia where the war of course still isn't forgotten.)

However we shouldn't delve into this too deep as it is a political topic.  So let's better leave it at that.


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