# Controversial and sad...



## Artrella

This is about Terri Schiavo.... I would like if possible to hear your opinions about this subject: euthanasia.

Here you have a link TERRI 

If nobody wants to answer, I will understand.


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## cuchuflete

The assumption that this is about euthanasia is not necessarily correct.
There are at least two sides to that.  Some say that she is being kept alive artificially, so withdrawal of support is just letting her life come to an end.  Others declare that to withdraw care is to kill her.

Have you already come to a conclusion, as your sentence implies?


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## te gato

Artrella said:
			
		

> This is about Terri Schiavo.... I would like if possible to hear your opinions about this subject: euthanasia.
> 
> Here you have a link TERRI
> 
> If nobody wants to answer, I will understand.


 
Hey Art; GF

First..yes it is sad...

My view..and this is only my view..please remember....

If what is happening to Terri is HER choice..then why go against her wishes?...for what reason?...
One must always remember to look at the big picture...who made the CHOICE...what was her quality of life before this? and would she have wanted to live like that?..
It is sad..that we as humans tend to have more compassion for our pets..and animals...and will put them out of their misery in the least painfull way..than we do for our loved ones..
Tust me I know..this is no easy decision..for anyone to make..whether you have 'Legal Guardianship' or not..It is something that you pray  you will never have to do..I am going through this with my father right now...I feel terrible at having to do it..but the Choice and the wishes were HIS..and I would feel ten times worse as a daughter who loves him..(hang on..please)...Ok I'm back..(this is hard)...not do do as he asked me..and hoped I would do...
Do you think that Terri's Husband does not have sleepless nights...do you think he is not second-guessing himself..think again..and for other people..the government..the church...to step in and condem him..have no business in doing so...they should put themselves in his place..shoes.. for a while..and feel the self-doubt..and self-loathing..that one does when a decision of this magnitude must be made and carried out...
Here also we have what is called a ' Living Will'...This is a will you make out when you are alive just for this reason...to state that if anything happens to you and your quality of life is not what you wish..by your CHOICE..you can have life support removed...My Father has one as do I...

besos
te gato


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## Phryne

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Art; GF
> 
> First..yes it is sad...
> 
> My view..and this is only my view..please remember....
> 
> If what is happening to Terri is HER choice..then why go against her wishes?...for what reason?...
> One must always remember to look at the big picture...who made the CHOICE...what was her quality of life before this? and would she have wanted to live like that?..
> It is sad..that we as humans tend to have more compassion for our pets..and animals...and will put them out of their misery in the least painfull way..than we do for our loved ones..
> Tust me I know..this is no easy decision..for anyone to make..whether you have 'Legal Guardianship' or not..It is something that you pray you will never have to do..I am going through this with my father right now...I feel terrible at having to do it..but the Choice and the wishes were HIS..and I would feel ten times worse as a daughter who loves him..(hang on..please)...Ok I'm back..(this is hard)...not do do as he asked me..and hoped I would do...
> Do you think that Terri's Husband does not have sleepless nights...do you think he is not second-guessing himself..think again..and for other people..the government..the church...to step in and condem him..have no business in doing so...they should put themselves in his place..shoes.. for a while..and feel the self-doubt..and self-loathing..that one does when a decision of this magnitude must be made and carried out...
> Here also we have what is called a ' Living Will'...This is a will you make out when you are alive just for this reason...to state that if anything happens to you and your quality of life is not what you wish..by your CHOICE..you can have life support removed...My Father has one as do I...
> 
> besos
> te gato


 
I feel the same, and I'm terrible sorry to hear about your father...


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## te gato

Phryne said:
			
		

> I feel the same, and I'm terrible sorry to hear about your father...


Phryne;
Thank you..

The reason I even posted and told the truth is due to the fact that people are SO quick to judge what others do without even understanding what and why they do it...they do not think of what torment the ones left are going through..and will go through for the rest of their lives...on a topic such as this one...
People should sit down and think..REALY think of how they would feel..if the roles were reversed...before they start yelling about what is wright or wrong..
Sorry...
te gato


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## gotitadeleche

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Art; GF
> 
> First..yes it is sad...
> 
> My view..and this is only my view..please remember....
> 
> If what is happening to Terri is HER choice..then why go against her wishes?...for what reason?...
> One must always remember to look at the big picture...who made the CHOICE...what was her quality of life before this? and would she have wanted to live like that?..
> It is sad..that we as humans tend to have more compassion for our pets..and animals...and will put them out of their misery in the least painfull way..than we do for our loved ones..
> Tust me I know..this is no easy decision..for anyone to make..whether you have 'Legal Guardianship' or not..It is something that you pray  you will never have to do..I am going through this with my father right now...I feel terrible at having to do it..but the Choice and the wishes were HIS..and I would feel ten times worse as a daughter who loves him..(hang on..please)...Ok I'm back..(this is hard)...not do do as he asked me..and hoped I would do...
> Do you think that Terri's Husband does not have sleepless nights...do you think he is not second-guessing himself..think again..and for other people..the government..the church...to step in and condem him..have no business in doing so...they should put themselves in his place..shoes.. for a while..and feel the self-doubt..and self-loathing..that one does when a decision of this magnitude must be made and carried out...
> Here also we have what is called a ' Living Will'...This is a will you make out when you are alive just for this reason...to state that if anything happens to you and your quality of life is not what you wish..by your CHOICE..you can have life support removed...My Father has one as do I...
> 
> besos
> te gato



Unfortunately, there are too many conflicting stories with this situation to know if this is what she wants or not. There is nothing in writing, only her husband's word that she said that, backed up by some friends who also claimed to have heard her say it. Then there are hospital staff and caregivers who claim that in the early days they heard her husband say to doctors "How would I know what she would want." And he does have motive now for wanting her dead---he is living with another woman and has two children by her. Also, apparently there is insurance money, since several witnesses have reported he talked about the money he would get. And there is the question of what actually happened to Terri. The brain injury is due to lack of oxygen because her heart stopped. But her family claims that doctors have not been able to explain to them why her heart stopped or why she had so many broken bones. As to her being in a vegetable state, most doctors have concurred that she is, but there has been some who disagree. One nurse who cared for Terri for a year and a half claims that she would laugh at funny stories and speak a few words. She would say the word "pain" when she was having her menses, so the nurses knew to give her something to aleviate the discomfort. There are enough contradictory claims here to make you wonder if it really is Terri's choice.


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## Phryne

te gato said:
			
		

> Phryne;
> Thank you..
> 
> The reason I even posted and told the truth is due to the fact that people are SO quick to judge what others do without even understanding what and why they do it...they do not think of what torment the ones left are going through..and will go through for the rest of their lives...on a topic such as this one...
> People should sit down and think..REALY think of how they would feel..if the roles were reversed...before they start yelling about what is wright or wrong..
> Sorry...
> te gato


 
I'm sorry to hear that you had such a bad experience with people. I've never had to suffer such a terrible thing (thankfully) and still, I understand your affliction. Like me, there might be tons of others who feel the same way. You are not alone ...


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## gotitadeleche

te gato said:
			
		

> Phryne;
> Thank you..
> 
> The reason I even posted and told the truth is due to the fact that people are SO quick to judge what others do without even understanding what and why they do it...they do not think of what torment the ones left are going through..and will go through for the rest of their lives...on a topic such as this one...
> People should sit down and think..REALY think of how they would feel..if the roles were reversed...before they start yelling about what is wright or wrong..
> Sorry...
> te gato



You are absolutely right te gato, it is a horrible situation to be in. It is a hard enough decision with a pet, much, much harder with a parent (and God forbid one should have to make that decision for a child). It should be a decision made privately within the family. The problem in this situation is that her birth family has one view of it and her husband, with possible ulterior motives, has another. Their personal tug-of-war caught the public's attention. 

My heart goes out to you, te gato for your own struggle.


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## Artrella

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> The assumption that this is about euthanasia is not necessarily correct.
> There are at least two sides to that.  Some say that she is being kept alive artificially, so withdrawal of support is just letting her life come to an end.  Others declare that to withdraw care is to kill her.
> 
> Have you already come to a conclusion, as your sentence implies?




Yes, I have my own opinion/ conclusion about euthanasia.  Foreros, do you know that there is a kind of "euthanasia insurance" in Switzerland?
This is it: you pay monthly an amount of money, then if you need to use their services, they provide you with a bed and an assistant, who gives you two pills, one for sleeping and the other one paralizes your heart.  You have to take the pills by your own means, nobody can put the pills in your hands or in your mouth, that is considered murder.

I'll try to find the article where I read that.  
I am for euthanasia. I had to go through a terrible experience with a relative, and this person suffered unbearable pain.... And I respect everybody's opinions and feelings.


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## te gato

Hey gotitadeleche;
First of all ..thank you...

and Yes..It is controversial...conflicting stories...he said she said...is never easy to prove when one does not have it written down on paper...Views change over time..information forgotten or blured...personal feelings of the Doctors..Nurses..Sure they tell you that they keep their Personal feelings out of it ..but do the really? I personaly don't think you can draw that fine of a line...
As for Terri's Husband..maybe he is just a greedy Bas**rd...(sorry)...
Yet one must always concider the hardest part of all...the quality of life Terri has..will she ever be able to walk in the sun again?..Hold the ones she loves in her arms?..and just BE what she always wanted to be?..have the life she wanted?..I guess we will never know...
Please don't misunderstand me..I only posted to give a feel of what it is like on the other side of the fence..when one has the legal rights to do this..and the wishes of the other person...how hard it is to go through...without having other people..governments..sticking their noses in...when they don't even you...
Maybe I just did it to remind people to think..before they judge..

te gato


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## beatrizg

I'm very sorry you're going through such a difficult experience, te gato.

I think you're right, we need to be reminded. Sometimes we judge too quickly and from a distance.


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## Edher

Saludos,

         I believe that Living Will is a good idea. I know that if I were to somehow end up in the vegetable condition I wouldn't like to become a piece of furniture or a burden for anyone, I would much rather prefer euthanasia. In my opinion, it is far more humaine to let your love ones go than to have them around as though they were a chair. I can't possibly imagine how a person in that condition could by happy I mean, I get bored sometimes to the point that i become irritable and impatient if I stay in one place for too long, it would be hell for me to stay totally immobile in the same place for months, years. 
       Even though no one knows for sure what's on the other end, just like Hamlet pointed out, one could remain conscious forever having reoccurring nightmares or one could simply reach their own version of paradise. Nevertheless, I would much rather take that risk.
       Te gato, sorry to hear you father is in a similar condition, but it should give you some comfort if you and your father agreed on euthanasia.

Edher


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## Artrella

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Art; GF
> besos
> te gato




*Hay love!!!* I am with you... you know that...ok yadda yadda?...kisses GF


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## mzsweeett

Good evening,

Te Gato, I am soo sad to hear of your father. With this I will keep you in my prayers. This thread literally makes me want to cry. 
I think it is awful that there was no living will to be found and I think it is awful that her husband is living with another woman and has 2 children with her. The way that the family is fighting also stresses me. 
I have a close friend going throughthe same thing right now. Her father is in his own world. He thinks he is 18 and single (he is 85 and a widower). Calls his daughter "hey cute pants", then for some reason he will blank out for hours. He has a DNR that if he should go into cardiac arrest or similiar they will just let him pass. Still he hangs on.
I think I agree with a lot of what has been said here. If you are able to make the Living Will, then do it so that all will know what *you* want and not what *someone else* wants.
Phew, I need to take abreak from this one...it's a real tear jerker for me.  

Sweet T.


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## te gato

Ok..

First..Thank you all...
Second..Art..Im sorry I never meant to take away anything from a very good question..and I send a big kiss to you..

Yes it is a very hard topic to deal with..and I think Art..GF..was very brave to bring up such a topic..most people would rather not talk about things like this..burry their head in the sand and hope it all goes away...Untill it happens to you.....

Living wills are the best thing for all...I recomend them to anyone...(Pm me for info)
Wow...insurance for something like that...mmmmm

te gato


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## te gato

Edher said:
			
		

> Saludos,
> 
> I believe that Living Will is a good idea. I know that if I were to somehow end up in the vegetable condition I wouldn't like to become a piece of furniture or a burden for anyone, I would much rather prefer euthanasia. In my opinion, it is far more humaine to let your love ones go than to have them around as though they were a chair. I can't possibly imagine how a person in that condition could by happy I mean, I get bored sometimes to the point that i become irritable and impatient if I stay in one place for too long, it would be hell for me to stay totally immobile in the same place for months, years.
> Even though no one knows for sure what's on the other end, just like Hamlet pointed out, one could remain conscious forever having reoccurring nightmares or one could simply reach their own version of paradise. Nevertheless, I would much rather take that risk.
> Te gato, sorry to hear you father is in a similar condition, but it should give you some comfort if you and your father agreed on euthanasia.
> 
> Edher


 
Edher;
Thank you for your kind words...It means alot..
I feel the same as you do..hence the living will..
te gato


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## mjscott

I am so sorry that both the parents and the husband do not agree. If this were not the case, this would not be an international story. Terry's mother says that she visited her and Terry cried--that she knows what is happening to her. Others are saying that when she was speaking some words and was able to recover from therapy at the beginning of her accident that her husband denied her anything that would advance her abilities. I am guessing that when all the chips fall someone will write a book and we'll know the real story behind it all.

Too many cooks spoil the broth--so they say. I have a somewhat different story, in that my father had too many doctors--all prescribing him the same medicines by different names--and a pharmacy that did not catch the redundancy of the prescriptions. The results? Cirrhosis of the liver, for a man who hardly drank a day in his life. Along with cirrhosis comes dementia. I got to see my father, a man who boxed for the US Navy and still punched his speedball in the garage into his 80's and jogged to the highway and back, cry like a baby as if someone were terrorizing him. The pain was on us, who were left. My father was fighting for his life. As horrible as it was to see him in this sad state, he fought for his life--something I think Terry's parents have exhausted their efforts in doing, also. Yes, the story is sad. No one can judge Terry's husband, but neither should they judge her parents. As hard as my dad fought, I would fight for him, also--just because I know that he chose life, and not death! It is onl by God's grace that I did not have to courageously declare I would fight for him, week after week, year after year. No, judgment is not left for us. I just wish good thoughts, and think good things, and say prayers to Someone bigger than me, that Terry be able to softly go in peace--to wherever that place is that we are all destined to end up. I wish for her peace, the sense of love by those around her, and a sense of love for where she is going. I wish this all for Terry Schiavo.

My heart goes out to all who have to carry out DNR wishes for loved ones, and for those who have to second-guess the wishes for loved ones. My heart goes out to you, Te Gato. My father has not yet been gone a year--and it still hurts greatly!


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## te gato

I wish to thank you all again for your thoughts...

And yes things like this are sad..and I have everything on paper..I can't think of what it must be like for the ones who do not...

And I also agree that something like this case should be between the family..and not..Im sorry..outsiders that have no idea who the person is...let alone their wishes...and for these people to step in...why for what purpose?..to get your picture in the paper for three seconds...and the rest of the time..where are they? where will the concerned person be a month from now?... Not helping pay for the medical bills...not helping take care of the person they were supposedly Fighting for...no they have moved on to another 'bleeding-heart' story...

The best thing..in a situation such as this...In my opinion..is send condolences..then back off...and let the family do what it is they have to..Just think of what the memories of their daughter..wife will be like now..will they remember her the way she deserves?...It is hard to say...probably yes..but it will also be tainted by what has happened...

te gato


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## NTFS

Artrella said:
			
		

> do you know that there is a kind of "euthanasia insurance" in Switzerland?
> This is it: you pay monthly an amount of money, then if you need to use their services, they provide you with a bed and an assistant, who gives you two pills, one for sleeping and the other one paralizes your heart. You have to take the pills by your own means, nobody can put the pills in your hands or in your mouth, that is considered murder.


 
hey art is this for real? OMG!  they should call it "suicide insurance" if that's the case. it's like paying for you own death... wow....  


saludos
sales


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## Artrella

NTFS said:
			
		

> hey art is this for real? OMG!  they should call it "suicide insurance" if that's the case. it's like paying for you own death... wow....
> saludos
> sales



Yes, Sales.  It is real.   ONE WAY TICKET 

Saludos, Art


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## steffiegomez

Dear Te Gato, 
I'm new at WR forum and I'm learning a lot. First of all, I'm sorry about your Dad and you. I admire and respect people going under those circumstances, your experiences will teach us all. Second, I loved what you wrote and agree 110%
I'll pray for you & your Dad 
From Mexico...
Steffie


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## te gato

steffiegomez said:
			
		

> Dear Te Gato,
> I'm new at WR forum and I'm learning a lot. First of all, I'm sorry about your Dad and you. I admire and respect people going under those circumstances, your experiences will teach us all. Second, I loved what you wrote and agree 110%
> I'll pray for you & your Dad
> From Mexico...
> Steffie


 
Hey steffiegomez;

First of all let me say...Welcome to the forum !!!
Second..thank you very much for your kind words...
I send besos to Mexico..
the place I love..

te gato


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## Narda

Dear TeGato and other Foreros:  My own opinion is that if a human being wants to get rid of another human being it is more merciful to get a gun and shoot him/her.  What they are doing is starving and dehydrating the woman to death.  To me is like if they want her to die with a kind of a vengeance.  Obviously, she is not artificially alive because they withdrew the feeding tubes and she is still alive; when people are in a respirator, one they turn it off, people last seconds or at the most a few minutes, this is not the case with this poor woman.  She has been out of the tube for 12 days.

This is very scary, when we are well and healthy, we all usually have big mouths, but what happens when we know what is happening to us but have no saying?

To me all this sounds less like Euthanasia and more like murder.  Sorry... my personal opinion.


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## Artrella

Narda said:
			
		

> Dear TeGato and other Foreros:  My own opinion is that if a human being wants to get rid of another human being it is more merciful to get a gun and shoot him/her.  What they are doing is starving and dehydrating the woman to death.  To me is like if they want her to die with a kind of a vengeance.  Obviously, she is not artificially alive because they withdrew the feeding tubes and she is still alive; when people are in a respirator, one they turn it off, people last seconds or at the most a few minutes, this is not the case with this poor woman.  She has been out of the tube for 12 days.
> 
> This is very scary, when we are well and healthy, we all usually have big mouths, but what happens when we know what is happening to us but have no saying?
> 
> To me all this sounds less like Euthanasia and more like murder.  Sorry... my personal opinion.





I agree with you Narda.  I am for euthanasia not for torture.  What they have done to this woman... well only her family and God know ...


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## te gato

I'm not for torture either...never said I was...and yes they are in fact starving her..I don't agree on that...
Do you also know that they have been fighting this for 7 years in the courts?...seven years...
And now if the verdict is over-turned..they will hook her feeding tube back up..everyone thinks great!!!...sadly..that is not the case..Her kidneys have now shut down..they no longer work..and hooking her back up will flood her body with fluids that she can't rid herself of...
It is also speculated...'speculated'..that if hooked back up her death will be more painful...
There are more humane ways but that is considered murder...funny how we humanely put our pets to sleep...when we no longer wish them to suffer...I have often wondered why a dog..cat..cow..and even horses..warrant this when humans do not...I guess this will never be answered and my inner struggle and conflict will continue until the day I die..Thank you all again for the kind words and thought..I do in my odd Alberta way...appreciate every single one of them.!!!
Kisses from Calgary
te gato


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## lauranazario

Call me crazy, but what really saddens me about the Terry Schiavo situation is the fact that her parents have chosen to ignore the wishes of a daughter who reportedly expressed them directly to her husband and in front of other people who allegedly witnessed her declaration. To me, this whole situation is a sad example of a brutal power play forcibly thrust in the U.S. court system scenario. An example of parents who, for reasons known only to them, refuse to release their "hold" on a daughter, even under the direst of circumstances. An example that the thirst for control can overshadow what is supposed to be one of the purest loves on this Earth: the love of a parent for his/her child. 
Sure, my heart goes out to the victim of this power play --Terry herself-- but making that the only focus of my attention in this case would be hypocritical.

LN


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## lsp

I have no idea what Terry’s wishes were, if her husband is a forthright person or not… I only know that normal people, people like te gato, have to cope with similar decisions for their loved ones and it a highly personal matter that brings pain to everyone, even if the outcome is consensual. Te, my heart goes out to you.

But to have the media circus swarming the Schindlers and the Schiavos, for Congress to be called back at night for an emergency session to push through a bill making way for a federal judge to rule whether or not to remove the feeding tube… for this President to cut a vacation short  for the first time EVER and fly back to DC, to turn this into a great political issue (enough to have Congress take its eye off the ball of the other pressing issue threatening the quality of the lives of the average American Joe and Jane – steroids in baseball), is a heartbreaking tragedy all its own.


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## te gato

lsp said:
			
		

> I have no idea what Terry’s wishes were, if her husband is a forthright person or not… I only know that normal people, people like te gato, have to cope with similar decisions for their loved ones and it a highly personal matter that brings pain to everyone, even if the outcome is consensual. Te, my heart goes out to you.
> 
> But to have the media circus swarming the Schindlers and the Schiavos, for Congress to be called back at night for an emergency session to push through a bill making way for a federal judge to rule whether or not to remove the feeding tube… for this President to cut a vacation short for the first time EVER and fly back to DC, to turn this into a great political issue (enough to have Congress take its eye off the ball of the other pressing issue threatening the quality of the lives of the average American Joe and Jane – steroids in baseball), is a heartbreaking tragedy all its own.


 
hey lsp;

Thank you so very much...

It is sad..this fight has been going on for 7 years...and the sadder point is that they have removed her feeding tube..there is now NO HOPE for her ever to even be what she was before....so now what is it getting them..the more the days drag on..the more she goes down-hill...the more irreversible the damage becomes..for what now..for what reason...let her go...with the dignity she deserves...

te gato


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## lauranazario

lsp said:
			
		

> IBut to have the media circus swarming the Schindlers and the Schiavos, for Congress to be called back at night for an emergency session to push through a bill making way for a federal judge to rule whether or not to remove the feeding tube… for this President to cut a vacation short  for the first time EVER and fly back to DC, to turn this into a great political issue [...] is a heartbreaking tragedy all its own.


Thanks, lsp... for pointing this out as well. It's yet another aspect of this multi-faceted tragedy. An aspect that cannot be ignored: the media/political circus.
LN


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## gotitadeleche

lsp said:
			
		

> I have no idea what Terry’s wishes were, if her husband is a forthright person or not… I only know that normal people, people like te gato, have to cope with similar decisions for their loved ones and it a highly personal matter that brings pain to everyone, even if the outcome is consensual. Te, my heart goes out to you.
> 
> But to have the media circus swarming the Schindlers and the Schiavos, for Congress to be called back at night for an emergency session to push through a bill making way for a federal judge to rule whether or not to remove the feeding tube… for this President to cut a vacation short  for the first time EVER and fly back to DC, to turn this into a great political issue (enough to have Congress take its eye off the ball of the other pressing issue threatening the quality of the lives of the average American Joe and Jane – steroids in baseball), is a heartbreaking tragedy all its own.



But keep in mind that Congress is not imposing itself on the situation; the Schiavos keep petitioning the courts for a judgement in their favor.

In any case, there is no going back now. Terri is out of her suffering.


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## te gato

Terry girl..
It is now time for you to try on your wings....


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