# نصراني



## Rainbowlight

Hello everyone,

I have been reading about the possible etymology of the word نصراني and found out that many users point to the verb "to help".

I wonder if there are similar words to it in Arabic that share the n-s-r sequence.

A simple example: نسر clearly follow the n-s-r pattern and means "eagle".

As for نصراني is concerned, are there other words that can be be labelled as similar-sounding?

Any help would be much appreciated

Thanks for your kindness and help.


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## WadiH

The root n-S-r (the 'S' is an 'emphatic' version of 's', equivalent to a Hebrew [ts]) does have to do with 'victory', but also 'support' (in battle, in order to achieve victory for someone else).  It is a very productive root in Arabic, and all the words derived from it have to do with victory or support in battle (e.g. naSr, naaSir, manSuur, intiSaar, nuSrah ... many of these are used as given names).

There is a verse in the Qur'aan where Jesus is quoted as saying to his followers "man anSaari ila Allah?" ("who shall be my supporters in the way of God?").  Some Muslims took from this verse that the term 'Nasraani' (Christian) came from this event in the Qur'aan, but this is not true.  'Nasraani' is just an old term for followers of Jesus in the Middle East, and it comes from Nazareth (the city where Jesus was from).

The other root you gave is n-s-r, which has an ordinary 's', so it's a completely unrelated root to n-S-r.  According to dictionaries, the root has to do with 'tearing', 'shredding', etc. Today people often use it to mean 'eagle', but the original meaning in Arabic is 'vulture' (the correct word for 'eagle' is 'uqaab عُقاب).


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## Hemza

Nasraani نصراني - نصارى

Here as well you may find what you're looking for .


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## Rainbowlight

Hemza said:


> Nasraani نصراني - نصارى
> 
> Here as well you may find what you're looking for .


Thank you very much!


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## Rainbowlight

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The root n-S-r (the 'S' is an 'emphatic' version of 's', equivalent to a Hebrew [ts]) does have to do with 'victory', but also 'support' (in battle, in order to achieve victory for someone else).  It is a very productive root in Arabic, and all the words derived from it have to do with victory or support in battle (e.g. naSr, naaSir, manSuur, intiSaar, nuSrah ... many of these are used as given names).
> 
> There is a verse in the Qur'aan where Jesus is quoted as saying to his followers "man anSaari ila Allah?" ("who shall be my supporters in the way of God?").  Some Muslims took from this verse that the term 'Nasraani' (Christian) came from this event in the Qur'aan, but this is not true.  'Nasraani' is just an old term for followers of Jesus in the Middle East, and it comes from Nazareth (the city where Jesus was from).
> 
> The other root you gave is n-s-r, which has an ordinary 's', so it's a completely unrelated root to n-S-r.  According to dictionaries, the root has to do with 'tearing', 'shredding', etc. Today people often use it to mean 'eagle', but the original meaning in Arabic is 'vulture' (the correct word for 'eagle' is 'uqaab عُقاب).


Thank you so much.

I have to say that although it makes perfect sense, I sense that I've only started to unravel the origins of these words. No
matter how widely accepted the Nazarene/Nazareth theory is, I just feel it would be interesting to gather some similar-sounding words to widen the scope in order to have a larger, clearer picture.

A simple example: Why not accept that the n-s-r refers in this case to an actual eagle and not to a town? The Roman Empire and many other political regimes have used throughout history the symbol of the eagle. I think all these details could be taken into consideration.


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## Rainbowlight

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The root n-S-r (the 'S' is an 'emphatic' version of 's', equivalent to a Hebrew [ts]) does have to do with 'victory', but also 'support' (in battle, in order to achieve victory for someone else).  It is a very productive root in Arabic, and all the words derived from it have to do with victory or support in battle (e.g. naSr, naaSir, manSuur, intiSaar, nuSrah ... many of these are used as given names).
> 
> There is a verse in the Qur'aan where Jesus is quoted as saying to his followers "man anSaari ila Allah?" ("who shall be my supporters in the way of God?").  Some Muslims took from this verse that the term 'Nasraani' (Christian) came from this event in the Qur'aan, but this is not true.  'Nasraani' is just an old term for followers of Jesus in the Middle East, and it comes from Nazareth (the city where Jesus was from).
> 
> The other root you gave is n-s-r, which has an ordinary 's', so it's a completely unrelated root to n-S-r.  According to dictionaries, the root has to do with 'tearing', 'shredding', etc. Today people often use it to mean 'eagle', but the original meaning in Arabic is 'vulture' (the correct word for 'eagle' is 'uqaab عُقاب).


Thank you again. Am I right when I understand that one of the hypotheses for the origin of the word "Nasraani" might as well be "supporters", as "people who support Jesus doctrines"?


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## Mahaodeh

Rainbowlight said:


> Why not accept that the n-s-r refers in this case to an actual eagle and not to a town?


The eagle “idea” can’t even be a hypothesis as the word is unrelated. The emphatic s and the regular s are two different constants in Arabic each cognate to a different letter in other Semitic languages. They are not different pronunciations of the same letter and are not confused with each other in Arabic (nor Hebrew or Aramaic up to my knowledge). Based on that, the root for eagle and Christian in Arabic are unrelated.


Rainbowlight said:


> Am I right when I understand that one of the hypotheses for the origin of the word "Nasraani" might as well be "supporters", as "people who support Jesus doctrines"?


Yes.


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## Rainbowlight

Mahaodeh said:


> The eagle “idea” can’t even be a hypothesis as the word is unrelated. The emphatic s and the regular s are two different constants in Arabic each cognate to a different letter in other Semitic languages. They are not different pronunciations of the same letter and are not confused with each other in Arabic (nor Hebrew or Aramaic up to my knowledge). Based on that, the root for eagle and Christian in Arabic are unrelated.
> 
> Yes.


I just cannot help to notice that some words that ought to express contrary meanings seem to have a similar root. Of course, Nazarene and Saracen are not the same word, but there seems to be a sort of counter-meaning when studying apparently opposite words.

By the way, I couldn't help but being utterly surprised when I learned that "sarışın" is the Turkish word for _blond_. I wonder if English words such as _blind_ (meaning "covered", as in hair color that has been covered by a dye) or _blend_ (mixed, mix, mixture, hybrid) also have an Arabic counterpart or, at least, cognates that might or might no be directly to the word _blond_ in Arabic.


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## love-Liebe-Lub(Arbc)

Rainbowlight said:


> I just cannot help to notice that some words that ought to express contrary meanings seem to have a similar root. Of course, Nazarene and Saracen are not the same word, but there seems to be a sort of counter-meaning when studying apparently opposite words.


it is one thing to read, and it is another thing to hear.
the simplistic vocalisation of n-s-r vs n-S-r/n-ṣ-r, might give a false presumption that they are audibly the same.
But when vocalised they are very distinct. from a semitic  point of view, as much as I have read, I have never read about  a word in which *s* become *S/ṣ* in semitic languages.
it appears you never heard it, so put this in mind when noticing words with similar writing.


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## WadiH

Rainbowlight said:


> A simple example: Why not accept that the n-s-r refers in this case to an actual eagle and not to a town? The Roman Empire and many other political regimes have used throughout history the symbol of the eagle. I think all these details could be taken into consideration.



The issue here (aside from the phonological issue of the difference between the characters 'siin' and 'tsaad' in Semitic languages) is that _n-s-r_ means vulture, not eagle.  People only started using it to mean 'eagle' in recent times.

The true etymology of 'Nazereth' seems to be cognate with the Arabic root n-Z-r (meaning to 'look' or 'look out', so think of a watchtower).  The phonemes Saad, Zaad and Daad are distinct in Arabic but all merged into one phoneme [tsaad] in Hebrew and a few other Semitic tongues.  Note the capital letters S, Z, D denotes that these sounds are emphatic, so they are not the same as the normal 's', 'z' and 'd' that you are familiar with in European languages (and which of course also exist as separate phonemes in Semitic languages).



Rainbowlight said:


> Thank you again. Am I right when I understand that one of the hypotheses for the origin of the word "Nasraani" might as well be "supporters", as "people who support Jesus doctrines"?



Yes, based on a Qur'anic verse where the disciples of Jesus declare their allegance to God ('_nahnu anSaar Allah'_), but this etymology is not the one accepted by scholars.


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## Rainbowlight

love-Liebe-Lub(Arbc) said:


> it is one thing to read, and it is another thing to hear.
> the simplistic vocalisation of n-s-r vs n-S-r/n-ṣ-r, might give a false presumption that they are audibly the same.
> But when vocalised they are very distinct. from a semitic  point of view, as much as I have read, I have never read about  a word in which *s* become *S/ṣ* in semitic languages.
> it appears you never heard it, so put this in mind when noticing words with similar writing.


Hello,

I have been posting in this forum out of a real interest in the Arabic language and culture. I sincerely apologize if my mistakes have offended you. I am definitely not claiming a special status for me, but I certainly believe that a certain amount of respect should be granted to all users of this forum, even those who are not familiar with Arabic and yet are genuinely interested in it.

Thanks for your clarifying comments.


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## Rainbowlight

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The issue here (aside from the phonological issue of the difference between the characters 'siin' and 'tsaad' in Semitic languages) is that _n-s-r_ means vulture, not eagle.  People only started using it to mean 'eagle' in recent times.
> 
> The true etymology of 'Nazereth' seems to be cognate with the Arabic root n-Z-r (meaning to 'look' or 'look out', so think of a watchtower).  The phonemes Saad, Zaad and Daad are distinct in Arabic but all merged into one phoneme [tsaad] in Hebrew and a few other Semitic tongues.  Note the capital letters S, Z, D denotes that these sounds are emphatic, so they are not the same as the normal 's', 'z' and 'd' that you are familiar with in European languages (and which of course also exist as separate phonemes in Semitic languages).


Thanks for the clarification. I have to say that I find interesting that n-s-r actually means _vulture_. The Ancient Greek term for these birds was either Aegypius or Gyps. I find there is an interesting connection between these words and the noun and adjective Egypt and Egyptian.


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## WadiH

The folks at the Etymology forum on this website may be able to give you more information, but I haven't found evidence of a link between the two words, even though they look similar.


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## Rainbowlight

love-Liebe-Lub(Arbc) said:


> it is one thing to read, and it is another thing to hear.
> the simplistic vocalisation of n-s-r vs n-S-r/n-ṣ-r, might give a false presumption that they are audibly the same.
> But when vocalised they are very distinct. from a semitic  point of view, as much as I have read, I have never read about  a word in which *s* become *S/ṣ* in semitic languages.
> it appears you never heard it, so put this in mind when noticing words with similar writing.


Thank you very much.


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## Rainbowlight

Mahaodeh said:


> The eagle “idea” can’t even be a hypothesis as the word is unrelated. The emphatic s and the regular s are two different constants in Arabic each cognate to a different letter in other Semitic languages. They are not different pronunciations of the same letter and are not confused with each other in Arabic (nor Hebrew or Aramaic up to my knowledge). Based on that, the root for eagle and Christian in Arabic are unrelated.
> 
> Yes.


Thank you very much.


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## fdb

Nasrānī (Nαζωραιος) and hanīf (εθνικός): studies on the religious vocabulary of Christianity and of Islam | Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies | Cambridge Core


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## Rainbowlight

fdb said:


> Nasrānī (Nαζωραιος) and hanīf (εθνικός): studies on the religious vocabulary of Christianity and of Islam | Bulletin of the School of Oriental and African Studies | Cambridge Core


Thank you very much!


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## Ali Smith

WadiH said:


> The true etymology of 'Nazereth' seems to be cognate with the Arabic root n-Z-r (meaning to 'look' or 'look out', so think of a watchtower).  The phonemes Saad, Zaad and Daad are distinct in Arabic but all merged into one phoneme [tsaad] in Hebrew and a few other Semitic tongues.  Note the capital letters S, Z, D denotes that these sounds are emphatic, so they are not the same as the normal 's', 'z' and 'd' that you are familiar with in European languages (and which of course also exist as separate phonemes in Semitic languages).


Did you mean Zaa (ظاء) instead of Zaad?


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## WadiH

Yes I should have said Zaa', sorry.


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