# loin des yeux loin du cœur



## Ljubodrag Gráthas

I like this French saying (especially that Serbian has a word for word equivalent), and I was wondering how to translate it in English. I came up with: out of sight, out of mind. Any other ideas?


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## Cath.S.

Hi Ljubodrag, 
I think it is 
_Out of sight, out of mind._


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## d.irt

Trust me on this. I've been learning french since I was a child. Loin des yeux, loin du coeur means "far from the eyes, far from the heart".. I love this quote and it basically implies that if you are far away from a person it is impossible to know how you really feel about them. Only if you are close by "eyes" are you close at "heart" and can know how you feel about that person for real.


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## wildan1

d.irt said:


> Trust me on this. I've been learning french since I was a child. Loin des yeux, loin du coeur means "far from the eyes, far from the heart".. I love this quote and it basically implies that if you are far away from a person it is impossible to know how you really feel about them. Only if you are close by "eyes" are you close at "heart" and can know how you feel about that person for real.


 


> "far from the eyes, far from the heart"..


 
I have never heard this as a set expression, although it is easy enough to understand.

More usual (but with the opposite meaning) is _absence makes the heart grow fonder_

Otherwise I agree that the usual set phrase in English is _out of sight out of mind_--no heart involved!


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## geostan

d.irt said:


> Trust me on this. I've been learning french since I was a child. Loin des yeux, loin du coeur means "far from the eyes, far from the heart".. I love this quote and it basically implies that if you are far away from a person it is impossible to know how you really feel about them. Only if you are close by "eyes" are you close at "heart" and can know how you feel about that person for real.



You've given a literal translation, but it is not used in English. Nor do I think that A_bsence makes the heart grow fonder_ is a good translation. That is something quite different. _Out of sight, out of mind_ is the appropriate equivalent in English.

Cheers!


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## Maximilien

[...]
I disagree. It's not an equivalent. It's very similar yes, but it doesn't cover the same ground. The word heart in french in this phrase is really what the expression is about, i.e., love. The English expression does not necessarily imply love, at least not romantic love. The french expression however, does. So they are not equivalent. I do not believe the English language has an equivalent for this expression.


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## Language Hound

If I follow your reasoning, Maximilien, I would then say that _God bless you!_ is not the equivalent of _à vos souhaits !_
because it does not include the notion of wishes! Yet it is what we say when someone sneezes.

_Out of sight, out of mind_ is what we say in the instances where the French _loin des yeux, loin du coeur_ is used
and can thus be described as the English equivalent (even though this may seem "heartless" to you.).


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## Maximilien

Language is tied to the cultural and historical forces of its land. Some concepts do not translate adequately because the ideas in one language are not captured by the words that exist in the other language. While this is not the case of the particular words we are comparing here, the ideas and forces behind the expressions _God bless you_ and _à tes souhaits_ are very different. _God bless you_ in French (_que dieu vous benisse_) makes no sense in terms of a sneeze. So while it may be the _appropriate _"equivalent" expression in the context of a sneeze to say _à tes souhaits_, it doesn't capture the same ideas.

I suppose at this point we're left with the question: what do we mean by _equivalent_? When you're talking about love, _out of sight out of mind_ just doesn't work for me. I can't think of a context where it captures the idea and feeling behind the feeling of _loin des yeux loin du coeur_. If I had to translate the expression in a literary text and put my professional reputation on the line, I would not use the expression _out of sight out of mind._ To capture the meaning I would not use an expression in the English language. I might say something along these lines of:

_living far away from those you love, makes it easier to grow apart from them_

I think your example doesn't compare because it doesn't have the same function or implication. Saying _Bless you_ or _God bless you_ is really just a response to a sneeze. It's like saying _hello _when you see someone you know, it's automatic. The expression_ loin des yeux loin du coeur_ isn't about an automatic response to something like a sneeze, it's much deeper than that. I suppose you could mean it about love, it's just that _out of sight out of mind_ could be applied to so many other ideas other than love. You could be talking about a problem, such as prisoners in society. _Loin des yeux loin du coeur_ seems to be more focused on one situation, which is when people who love each other, living far apart, are growing apart as a result. _Out of sight out of mind_ doesn't do it justice, and I think your example, doesn't compare.


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## Keith Bradford

It's all a matter of *why *you're making the translation: *who for*?

In a novel, _Loin des yeux, loin du coeur _is translated as _Out of sight, out of mind_. No doubt at all about that.
In a book on psychology, it might be appropriate to make a word-for-word translation.  (But you'd still need to explain the everyday meaning of the proverb.)


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## Maximilien

[...]
I will challenge any translator who translates it in a novel that way. I don't the "every day meanings" of the two are equivalent, for the reasons I explained above. The french expression is much more narrow in its use.


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## Santana2002

In my opinion the words _'out of sight, out of mind' _evoke the same interpretation to an anglophone as the words _'loin des yeux, loin du coeur_" do to a franchophone.  I therefore agree with previous posters that this is the way to translate the phrase, except in an academic situation such as the one outlined by Keith.


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## Keith Bradford

A translator of novels has to put into English not only the meaning of the words but also the *tone of voice *of the speaker.  For this reason, an experienced translator will often use clichés (which writers normally avoid) in a deliberate attempt to make his characters *sound *right.  This is obviously such a case.

The alternative is the sort of stilted writing which, when you turn on the radio in the middle of a play, makes you say "I don't know what this is, but I know it's been translated".


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## mehoul

can you say "out of sight, out of mind" for something that is not a person? (eg, a duty I have to perform)


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## Santana2002

Yes.  For example if I have a huge pile of ironing waiting to be done but I hide the basket in a cupboard, I could say "Out of sight, out of mind!'

Willflower, your expression does involve feelings, but is not really an equivalent for the original phrase.  Yours is more meaning that you can't desire something you have never seen.


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## mehoul

thank you. I think that in French we could not say "loin des yeux, loin du coeur" for that, or it would be kind of ironic. So the two phrases are not exact equivalents, although it is probably the best translation.


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## Mauricet

La démonstration de mehoul est magnifique ! On ne peut donc *pas toujours* traduire _out of sight, out of mind_ par _loin des yeux, loin du cœur_. Il faut donc savoir si dans le contexte, il s'agit bien de la disparition des sentiments causée par l'absence ou l'éloignement.

Mais ce fil porte sur la traduction en sens inverse : là il *me **semble* que l'équivalence fonctionne, dans la mesure ou le contexte indiquera toujours que _out of mind_ signifie que les _sentiments_ disparaissent.


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## Language Hound

Mauricet said:


> Mais ce fil porte sur la traduction en sens inverse : là il *me **semble* que l'équivalence fonctionne, dans la mesure ou le contexte indiquera toujours que _out of mind_ signifie que les _sentiments_ disparaissent.


Exactly!



Maximilien said:


> The french expression is much more narrow in its use.


Exactly! Which is why I wrote above "_Out of sight, out of mind_ is what we say in the instances where the French _loin des yeux, loin du coeur_ is used."
*To summarize*,
_Loin des yeux, loin du coeur _always means _out of sight, out of mind_.
_Out of sight, out of mind_ does not always mean _loin des yeux, loin du coeur_.


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## Maximilien

A very interesting discussion indeed. I love the input. While I understand all of the points and arguments presented, I still do not feel that _out of sight out of mind _truly captures the feeling and therefore the meaning of the expression in french. It's too broad, and by virtue of being so broad, it doesn't do the french expression justice. That's my final answer. I feel like something important is left out.


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## Language Hound

Maximilien said:


> I still do not feel that _out of sight out of mind _truly captures the feeling and therefore the meaning of the expression in french.


Native English speakers would disagree.  I think you're just getting hung up on the "heart" versus "mind" use in instances where romantic love is involved.  My first reaction to reading the sentence you wrote above (_*Living far away from those you love makes it easier to grow apart from them*_) was: Yes, out of sight, out of mind.  This is a set phrase and, when used in the context of love, it captures (at least for native English speakers) the same feeling and has the same meaning as the French expression "without leaving out anything important." You can't expect different languages/cultures to always use the same terms to express the same concept. Vive la différence !


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## Anna-chonger

Imaginons un contexte : 
vous avez un cousin avec qui vous avez passé toute votre enfance, donc vous étiez très proches. Un jour il vous a quitté pour vivre très loin. Et puis très vite vous ne vous avez plus contactés... 

Est-ce qu'on peut dire _"loin des yeux, loin du coeur"_ ET _"out of sight, out of mind"_ dans ce cas-là ?


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## Uncle Bob

Si vous ne l'avez pas contacté parce que vous l'avez complètement oublié (volontairement)  alors oui (pour "out of sight out of mind" au moins).
Si vous regrettez de ne pas l'avoir fait alors non.

Et ne le dites pas si on va le lui raconter!

[Edit: Completely revised]


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## Chimel

Anna-chonger said:


> Imaginons un contexte :
> vous avez un cousin avec qui vous avez passé toute votre enfance, donc vous étiez très proches. Un jour il vous a quitté pour vivre très loin. Et puis très vite vous ne vous avez plus contactés...
> 
> Est-ce qu'on peut dire _"loin des yeux, loin du coeur"_ ET _"out of sight, out of mind"_ dans ce cas-là ?


En français, ça ne me choquerait pas que l'expression soit utilisée pour un cousin, un ami d'enfance..., donc sans connotation "romantique", mais il me semble tout de même qu'il y a un risque d'ambiguïté car on pourrait comprendre que cela fait référence à une relation sentimentale (même avec un cousin, ça s'est déjà vu... ).

C'est un peu comme dire: "Mon nouveau patron est formidable. J'ai vraiment eu le coup de foudre pour lui". S'il s'agit d'une simple sympathie ou admiration non amoureuse, on le précisera souvent: "Enfin, coup de foudre purement platonique, je veux dire...", ou quelque chose dans l genre.


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## Kecha

Je ne vois pas pourquoi "cœur" implique forcément le sentiment amoureux. 
On a le droit d'aimer (to love, to like) son cousin, ses parents, son frère, ses amis etc. sans impliquer d'être amoureux (to be in love). Vous ne dites jamais "je t'aime" à vos proches sans les assortir d'un "platoniquement, bien sûr" ? Ça fait un peu handicapé de la communication qui ne peut s'empêcher de bouffonner quand ça devient trop sérieux.

En tout cas j'ai régulièrement entendu "loin des yeux, loin du cœur" pour décrire des amitiés qui s'étiolent à cause de la distance, beaucoup plus souvent que pour décrire des couples qui se séparent...


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## Chimel

Ok, Ok, tout cela est très vrai... J'ai simplement parlé d'un risque d'ambiguïté dans un cas comme celui évoqué par Anna-chonger: si elle me parle d'un ami d'enfance qu'elle n'a plus revu depuis longtemps en ajoutant "tu sais comment c'est... loin des yeux, loin du cœur", on pourrait se demander dans quel sens elle utilise l'expression. Pour le coup de foudre, la nécessité de préciser me paraît encore plus importante.

Mais cela ne signifie pas qu'on ne peut pas aimer de tout son cœur des gens dont on n'est pas amoureux - et le leur dire !


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## archijacq

Et pourquoi pas ? ...
Out of sight, out of heart
(chanson de Rebecca Skolnick))


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## Anna-chonger

Uncle Bob said:


> Si vous ne l'avez pas contacté parce que vous l'avez complètement oublié (volontairement)  alors oui (pour "out of sight out of mind" au moins).
> Si vous regrettez de ne pas l'avoir fait alors non.
> 
> Et ne le dites pas si on va le lui raconter!
> 
> [Edit: Completely revised]



Ah oui !! je voulais justement savoir si l'expression *française* exprime une sorte de regret ou bien de "auto-soulagement" (désolée... j'ai inventé ce mot...) ! On la prononce quand on regrette la perte du sentiment entre deux personnes éloignées, ou quand on rejette (met très loin) une tâche qu'on ne veut pas entamer ?

Mais à lire le poste 24 de Chimel, on peut être sûr qu'elle s'utilise pour le cas du sentiment !


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## Kecha

Je trouve plutôt que "loin des yeux, loin du cœur" exprime plutôt une critique envers les personnes qui n'arrivent pas à maintenir une relation à distance, par exemple : "On n'a plus de nouvelles depuis qu'il a déménagé. Loin des yeux, loin du cœur !". 

Si on parle de soi-même je ne pense pas que ça exprime du regret en tant que tel. Ça serait plutôt admettre qu'on est une personne froide et qu'on se fiche bien des personnes dès qu'on n'a plus besoin d'elles !

J'ai trouvé aussi "long absent, soon forgotten".

"Fievel goes west" lyrics :

Loin des yeux, loin du cœur / Absence makes the heart go cold
Et les cœurs vagabondent. / and makes a heart to wander
Si tu veux garder le sien, / If you stay there by their sides,
reviens près de ta blonde / you'll feel their hearts grow fonder


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## Anna-chonger

D'accord Kecha, merci !


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## Kelly B

archijacq said:


> Out of sight, out of heart





Kecha said:


> "long absent, soon forgotten".
> [...]
> "Absence makes the heart go cold"


I find these very evocative, so they're perfect for poetry and song lyrics, but a little contrived in an ordinary text or conversation.


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## toff23

That's an old thread I would like to update. In France we do not say that expression as far as I'm aware. We say "loin du coeur pres des yeux". It means that even distance can't stop a bond. I was looking for the translation in english when i ended up on this thread.


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## Chimel

Bienvenue au forum, Toff23. 

Malheureusement, je ne peux que contredire ton premier message:
- "Loin des yeux, loin du coeur" est une expression qui se dit en France et dans l'espace francophone (voir entre autres la discussion ci-dessus, on a débattu de la nuance plus ou moins "romantique" de l'expression, mais personne n'a nié son existence)
- En revanche, je n'ai jamais entendu "Loin du coeur, près des yeux"


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## toff23

Loin des yeux près du coeur j'aurais du me relire  Ça va avec la définition que j'en ai donné. 
Étant français je n'ai jamais entendu l'expression initiale. J'en comprend le sens mais ça va à l'opposé de l'expression courante. Pour mon excuse je ne vis plus en France depuis 15 ans


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## toff23

Google me contredit désolé du dérangement 😉


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## Nanon

Chimel said:


> je n'ai jamais entendu "Loin du cœur, près des yeux"


Moi non plus, mais en revanche, j'ai entendu _« loin du cœur, près du portefeuille »_ !


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