# Huffaaz - memorizing the Qur'an - how? Why?



## emma42

Hello forer@s.  In another thread, a forero mentioned that he had memorized the Qur'an (he is a Muslim) and that those who are able to do this are called "Huffaaz".

I would like to know more about this.  At what age does this work/duty/blessing start?  Who decides who shall take it on?  Is every Muslim expected to to this, or at least attempt it, including women?  Is interpretation taught along with memorization?  Is one considered a "better" Muslim having acheived this?  If one is an illiterate Muslim, does that mean that one is less, being unable to achieve this?  Are there any parellels in other belief systems/religions?

Thank you for your views.


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## cherine

Hello Emma,
First, I'd like to explain -as much as possible- the word Huffaaz حفاظ. It's the plural of Haafiz حافظ. The stem is *H-F-Z* (Arabic words mainly have three-letters stem) and means : *conserve*. or in another term, in a context like this one, it means: to *memorize* (conserve in the heart/head ).
Now, for your questions :


			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> At what age does this work/duty/blessing start? Who decides who shall take it on?


This can start at a very early age : 3 or 4 years old, but not necessarily this young.
Starting this early is of course the parent's choice (or decision). But ...
1- An adult person is surely intitled to make their own decision in memorizing the Qur'an
2- A kid who doesn't really want to memorize the text, will easily forget it as (s)he grows older.



> Is every Muslim expected to to this, or at least attempt it, including women?


More or less : YES. Because an essential element of the islamic prayers (Salat) صلاة is the recitation of some verses of the Qur'an. How can we pray if we don't know any verses ?
But the amount of surat سورة (chapters) memorized, varies from a person to another. Some people memorize all the surats of the Qur'an, others memorize only enough for prayer (4 or 5 little surats), others do a bit more. I depends on each person's ability to memorize (but memorizing such a text is not really that impossible of a task, as it has a certain musicality that render it quite easy to learn by heart, simply by listening to it/reading it several times)
"including women"; well Islam doesn't make a difference in duties/rights between men and women. So yes, women are also expected to memorize the Qur'an.



> Is interpretation taught along with memorization?


It's supposed to, but I don't think all those who learn the text -specially those who do it on a personal basis (i.e. without a tutor)- also learn the interpretation, though they should.



> Is one considered a "better" Muslim having acheived this?


Generally, yes. Although I've seen people who memorize the text but don't take the effort to aplly its teachings in their personal life, while others who didn't "acheive" such a thing are better muslims. 
- A side note : Islam -as taught in the Qur'an itself- gives more value to actions over talking. It's not enough to claim being a believer, because it's more important to behave as such.


> If one is an illiterate Muslim, does that mean that one is less, being unable to achieve this?


As I said, the text of the Qur'an has a certain musicality that renders it quite easy to memorize. Hence, many illiterate muslims were/are able to memorize the Qur'an by listening to it recited by others.


Edit: I thought I'd answer to the two questions in the thread title 
How? Why ?
*How :*
Memorizing the Qur'an is done, either by reading or by listening, several times, alone or with a tutor (sheikh, mu'allim...) that would teach the correct pronounciation, rythms (remember the musicality thing....)
*Why :*
1- To use it in the prayers.
2- Qur'an is considered as the "constitution" or general law of life for muslims. They're supposed to learn it AND understand it, and apply its teachings in their life.


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## emma42

Shukria, Cherine.  That has made things a lot clearer.

To contrast with one Anglican Christian experience, I would say that generally, people who are able to recite long tracts of the Bible (apart from vicars) are looked upon as a little strange, a little "too much" - this is a sort of middle class Church of England viewpoint.  I expect that, say, fundamentalist Christians/evangelicals etc would have a different view.

I take it that the learning of the Qur'an is looked upon with respect by Muslims, even younger ones?


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## cherine

emma42 said:
			
		

> Shukria, Cherine. That has made things a lot clearer.


3afwan Emma  
Excuse a little correction : Thanks is shukr*an*.



> *people who are able to recite long tracts of the Bible *(apart from vicars) *are looked upon as a little strange, a little "too much"*


Yes, I think I know about that. 
In the Muslim world, on the contrary, being able to recite long tracts of the Qur'an (or the whole of it) is considered something very good. It even give a certain "respect" or admiration to the person who can do it.
Although a Muslim is not supposed to do anything whatsoever to gain admiration of people, but only to please God.


> I take it that the learning of the Qur'an is looked upon with respect by Muslims, even younger ones?


Yes, you're right


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## emma42

Thank you, Cherine.  Sorry for the "shukria" - I was speaking Urdu as I do not know any Arabic - I thought it might be similar enough for you to understand!


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## cherine

It was, don't worry


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## linguist786

Great reply by cherine  

I think your answer to emma's question about "Is everyone expected to do this?" was a little misleading though - you said "Yes" - but I just thought I'd clarify that this is not the whole Qur'aan - like you said, just the Surahs that you need for prayer. Memorising the whole Qur'an is entirely a matter of personal choice. 

It may have been me that mentioned memorising the Qur'an, so let me tell you how I did it.

I started when I was about 11. It takes different people different times to finish it, but the average (this is a very rough figure) is about 3 years. Alhamdulillah, there have been people all around the world (and you hear stories) that people have done it in one year, six months etc. I think the "record" has been something like two months (ما شاء الله). It took me just under six years - although I was at school at the same time . It was difficult, I admit, but I got through it. I had to go for 3½ hours every evening to my class - and an hour in the morning (6.30am - 7.30am) in winter time. The important thing, however, is not how quickly you can memorise it, but not forgetting it! To forget the Qur'aan after having memorised it is considered a major sin - so you have to keep going over and over it.

I, myself, did not learn the meaning of the Qur'an as I memorised it. To be honest, I don't think this is necessary. A Haafiz who doesn't know the meaning of the Qur'an isn't any less "valid", if you like, than one who does. Obviously knowing what it means is a great blessing! (Most non-arabophones who learn the meaning are those who go on to become 3aalim (learned people of Islam - scholars)) Alhamdulillah, since I have started Arabic classes, I shall hopefully know the meaning one day (I can understand bits already).

People start and finish at all kinds of ages - I have even heard of one 2 year-old doing it!! It's amazing. An ustaad in my madrasah told us that he was kind of "pushed" into doing it when he was young so then he stopped doing it, but when he was older, he started to regret it really badly - so believe it or not, he actually finished memorising it when he was about 30 (and trust me, that's not easy, especially when you've got a family to feed!!). I personally think it's a miracle of God that someone is able to memorise it - especially when they don't understand what it means. When reciting, it just "rolls off the tongue" - amazing. I can't believe it myself that I am able to do this - I'm generally not very clever!

I kind of disagree with cherine's comment about how the interpretation is supposed to be taught. I think the reason she might have said that is because we can then know what Allah has commanded us to do - but we learn this through our upbringing anyway. Young muslims start going to madrasah at the age of 3/4 and they get taught about Islam there.

Hope this is helpful.


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## cherine

Thanks for the reply linguist 


			
				linguist786 said:
			
		

> I kind of disagree with cherine's comment about how the interpretation is supposed to be taught. I think the reason she might have said that is because we can then know what Allah has commanded us to do - but we learn this through our upbringing anyway.


What's the use of memorizing something you don't understand ?! I personally feel kind of ashamed of not memorizing the Qur'an, but even more ashamed of not knowing the meaning of all the words of the surats I know. I strongly believe that, to be a good muslim, one must know what the Book is talking about, not just the general teachings.

But of course I respect your point of view. And, even more, admire your ability of memorizing the Book. May God help you keep it in your heart till the end of your life. 



> Young muslims start going to madrasah at the age of 3/4 and they get taught about Islam there.


Not all muslims do this. We used to have these madrasah (in Egypt we call them "kut'taab" كُـتّاب ) but their number is diminishing with the encreas of "regular" schools.
But in the past few years, there's a new form of these "Qur'an memorizing centers" that don't only teach to children but also to adults, men and women.


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## fenixpollo

cherine said:
			
		

> First, I'd like to explain -as much as possible- the word Huffaaz حفاظ. It's the plural of Haafiz حافظ. The stem is *H-F-Z* (Arabic words mainly have three-letters stem) and means : *conserve*. or in another term, in a context like this one, it means: to *memorize* (conserve in the heart/head).


 Thanks for the language lesson, cherine.  Very enlightening. 


			
				cherine said:
			
		

> How can we pray if we don't know any verses ?


  Isn't the purpose of prayer to have a conversation with God? You can pray without verses if you don't need a script to have a conversation with God.  Is all prayer in Islam scripted?





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> "including women"; well Islam doesn't make a difference in duties/rights between men and women. So yes, women are also expected to memorize the Qur'an.


 Whoah, now, Cherine... this contradicts all of the propaganda that Americans are fed about Islamic countries. For example, we are told that in some countries, women are required by law to cover their entire bodies and are not allowed to drive a car. 





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> 2- Qur'an is considered as the "constitution" or general law of life for muslims. They're supposed to learn it AND understand it, and apply its teachings in their life.


 It appears that women are denied the rights guaranteed by other constitutions, but are expected to participate equally in memorizing the Qu'ran.


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## linguist786

cherine said:
			
		

> Thanks for the reply linguist


You're welcome



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> What's the use of memorizing something you don't understand ?!


Simple answer - to please Allah. Every 3mal (action) that you do should be done for the sole pleasure of Allah.





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> I personally feel kind of ashamed of not memorizing the Qur'an, but even more ashamed of not knowing the meaning of all the words of the surats I know.


Ashamed?? There is no reason to be. It's what's in your heart that matters - your intentions, your beliefs etc.





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> I strongly believe that, to be a good muslim, one must know what the Book is talking about, not just the general teachings.


I think that is where we both have a slight difference of opinion.
A question - are you a Shaafi? 'Cause I think this may be why we have slightly different opinions on this.. 




			
				cherine said:
			
		

> But of course I respect your point of view. And, even more, admire your ability of memorizing the Book. May God help you keep it in your heart till the end of your life.


Ameen 


			
				cherine said:
			
		

> But in the past few years, there's a new form of these "Qur'an memorizing centers" that don't only teach to children but also to adults, men and women.


ما شاء الله - great to hear that  

*fenixpollo* - I think we're getting slightly off-topic here. The thread is about Huffaaz - not equality in Islam . As for your topic-related queries, I'll try and answer those later - in the meantime, I want to see Ghana kick Brazil's ass!!  
edit - oh no!! - spoke too soon! - they've blimmin' scored! damn Ronaldo


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## cherine

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Thanks for the language lesson, cherine. Very enlightening.


You're most welcome  (I just hope this is not ironic  , but still thanks)



> Isn't the purpose of prayer to have a conversation with God? You can pray without verses if you don't need a script to have a conversation with God. Is all prayer in Islam scripted?


That's why I wrote the word "salat" in my post, to differentiate between the two types of "conversation" with God : the prayer (as "please God give me so or grant me so...) is called in Arabic "du3aa2" (or Du'a) دعاء this can be said in any words of any language. But the SalaT صلاة is sort of "scripted" as you say. There are five obligatory SalaTs per days, where we must recite few verses of the Qur'an. Whereas the Du'a can be said anytime.
I'm not well learnt about Christianism, but I think there's a difference between Mass (for example) and prayer, right ? If so, then I think it's almost the same difference between SalaT and du'a.



> Whoah, now, Cherine... this contradicts all of the propaganda that Americans are fed about Islamic countries.


Sorry to contradict the big brother 



> For example, we are told that in some countries, women are required by law to cover their entire bodies and are not allowed to drive a car.


Not all muslim countries act the same way. For example, in Egypt, lady drivers are so many, most of my friends own -and drive- their car, unless of course they're rich enough to be able to afford a chauffeur 
Covering the entire body is not regarded in Islam as something inferiorating, but let's not start a discussion about it (it's off-topic, and it won't lead anywhere  ) even in muslim countries -Egypt for example- there are many controversies about whether women should wear the hijab or not.



> It appears that women are denied the rights guaranteed by other constitutions, but are expected to participate equally in memorizing the Qu'ran.


Like what ? (I mean the rights guaranteed by other constitutions)


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## Brioche

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Cherine... this contradicts all of the propaganda that Americans are fed about Islamic countries. For example, we are told that in some countries, women are required by law to cover their entire bodies and are not allowed to drive a car.


 
That is not propaganda. It is fact. In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive a car.

http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/010126/2001012607.html


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## Brioche

emma42 said:
			
		

> If one is an illiterate Muslim, does that mean that one is less, being unable to achieve this? Are there any parellels in other belief systems/religions?
> 
> Thank you for your views.


 
Being unable to write does not mean you cannot learn.

Before writing was invented the "illiterate" Greeks used to learn by heart the Iliad - 15,693 lines, and the Odyssey - 12,110 lines.

The early English used to learn many poems by heart. Beowulf is 3,182 lines.

By comparison, the Koran is 6,236 verses.


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## linguist786

it's 6666 actually


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## cherine

Brioche said:
			
		

> That is not propaganda. It is fact. In Saudi Arabia women are not allowed to drive a car.
> 
> http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/010126/2001012607.html


True, but things are -slowly- changing 
http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060213/2006021320.html

And let's not forget that this thread is not about women's right in Islam, it's about memorizing the text of a Holy book (not just Qur'an, as I understood from Emma's first post) :


			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> Are there any parellels in other belief systems/religions?


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## linguist786

Oh yeah - I forgot to mention - the word حافظ in English is often translated as "one who safeguards/safeguarder*" - (so basically, someone who safeguards the Qur'an in their heart)

*can you make this into an agent noun? hmm.. *goes to check*
edit - apparently, it can't. It _does_ sound a bit stilted actually.


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## fenixpollo

cherine said:
			
		

> That's why I wrote the word "salat" in my post, to differentiate between the two types of "conversation" with God : the prayer (as "please God give me so or grant me so...) is called in Arabic "du3aa2" (or Du'a) دعاء this can be said in any words of any language. But the SalaT صلاة is sort of "scripted" as you say. There are five obligatory SalaTs per days, where we must recite few verses of the Qur'an. Whereas the Du'a can be said anytime.
> I'm not well learnt about Christianism, but I think there's a difference between Mass (for example) and prayer, right ? If so, then I think it's almost the same difference between SalaT and du'a.


 Thanks again for the lesson. This is exactly what I wanted to know, but I didn't.   I suppose that the correlation between the Catholic mass and the SalaT is accurate.





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> Covering the entire body is not regarded in Islam as something inferiorating, but let's not start a discussion about it (it's off-topic, and it won't lead anywhere) even in muslim countries -Egypt for example- there are many controversies about whether women should wear the hijab or not.


Yes, I suppose that a discussion about  which rights women (or humans or other animals) should or should not have would be off topic.  However, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in expecting women to participate fully in society by memorizing the Qu'ran yet denying them some rights enjoyed by men who also memorize the Qu'ran.


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## cherine

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> However, I just wanted to point out the contradiction in expecting women to *participate fully in society by memorizing the Qu'ran* yet denying them some rights enjoyed by men who also memorize the Qu'ran.


Excuse me, but I laughed when I read this. (sorry)
But what makes you think that memorizing the Qur'an is in any way a "participation in society" ?! It's a totally, completely individual thing, people (muslims) do it or not as they wish, and this has nothing to do with their role in the society.
It's an individual *religious* thing, not *social*


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## emma42

I would like to clarify what I meant when I said "If one is an illiterate Muslim, does that mean one is "less", being unable to achieve [the feat of memorizing the Qur'an]?" The question was badly expressed, and I thank Brioche for making me aware of it.

Of course, I know that illiteracy does not preclude the ability to learn. What I meant to ask was whether various barriers to learning, whether it be illiteracy (so, unable to read for oneself and relying on the time and kindness of others to assist) or anything else, give less opportunity of becoming a better Muslim to some. It does seem unfair that, possibly for reasons of poverty (perhaps illiterate, perhaps not enough time to learn because of needing to earn a living) one person cannot become as close to god as another. If, indeed, the ability to recite the whole of the Qur'an does bring a person closer to god.


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## fenixpollo

cherine said:
			
		

> Excuse me, but I laughed when I read this. (sorry)
> But what makes you think that memorizing the Qur'an is in any way a "participation in society" ?! It's a totally, completely individual thing, people (muslims) do it or not as they wish, and this has nothing to do with their role in the society.
> It's an individual *religious* thing, not *social*


 Religion is part of society. They cannot be separated. While you may live in a region in which religion takes a less active role, it is active nonetheless. Its role is more obvious in conservative societies (e.g. colonial America in majority Puritan areas; many small Mormon towns in Utah; countries where sharia is dominant), but even in liberal ones, religion is there.  

While memorizing the scriptures may be voluntary in some societies, other signs of religious devotion (eg. the hijab) are less so (depending on the society).


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## emma42

Christians believe that praying to god is the way to him (usually through Jesus Christ). It is not necessary to use particular prayers or words (this does not apply to all Christians, but to many). 

Is it written in the Qur'an or other Islamic holy writing that prayers must take a set form? Are there any contradictions in respect of this in, say, the Qur'an and the Suras (I hope that is the right term - apologies if not).


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## linguist786

emma42 said:
			
		

> Of course, I know that illiteracy does not preclude the ability to learn. What I meant to ask was whether various barriers to learning, whether it be illiteracy (so, unable to read for oneself and relying on the time and kindness of others to assist) or anything else, give less opportunity of becoming a better Muslim to some. It does seem unfair that, possibly for reasons of poverty (perhaps illiterate, perhaps not enough time to learn because of needing to earn a living) one person cannot become as close to god as another. If, indeed, the ability to recite the whole of the Qur'an does bring a person closer to god.


God is well-aware of everything - don't you think he'd take into account the person's condition in life? Of course he would.
It is what is inside the heart that matters - your intentions. That's the first hadith that is taught when a person decided to become 3aalim.


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## emma42

Thank you linguist, but I still don't understand, then, how learning the Qur'an makes one a better Muslim.  I hope I am not upsetting you.


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## linguist786

emma42 said:
			
		

> Thank you linguist, but I still don't understand, then, how learning the Qur'an makes one a better Muslim. I hope I am not upsetting you.


Absolutely not! - I find your interest.. interesting! 

Who said it makes you a better muslim? (sorry, I'm not it _doesn't_, but just wondering who said this..)

What I'd say about this is this: A person who is a Haafiz is considered as somebody who should be setting examples to non-huffaaz. If, for example, a Haafiz is seen committing sins by a non-haafiz, and the non-haafiz then thinks "oh, it's not so bad, a haafiz is doing it!" and then goes on to do it himself, then the Haafiz is liable to sin too.

Being Haafiz means you have to follow the teachings of the Qur'aan (non-huffaaz do too, of course!) - if you don't, you will be sinned even more so than a non-haafiz, since you are contradicting what you have learnt!

So to answer the question, I'd say that being a Haafiz makes you a better Muslim in that people look up to you, so you should be setting examples. This means Huffaaz will be more careful since they don't want to be setting bad examples to people.

I hope you understand what I'm getting at..


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## cherine

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> Religion is part of society. They cannot be separated. While you may live in a region in which religion takes a less active role, it is active nonetheless. Its role is more obvious in conservative societies (e.g. colonial America in majority Puritan areas; many small Mormon towns in Utah; countries where sharia is dominant), but even in liberal ones, religion is there.
> 
> While memorizing the scriptures may be voluntary in some societies, other signs of religious devotion (eg. the hijab) are less so (depending on the society).


I agree with what you say. BUT.. memorizing the Qur'an has nothing to do with participating in society. It's like prayers, for example. How do you expect prayers to be considered as being a participation in a society? That was what I meant by my previous post.



			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> Christians believe that praying to god is the way to him (usually through Jesus Christ). It is not necessary to use particular prayers or words (this does not apply to all Christians, but to many).
> 
> Is it written in the Qur'an or other Islamic holy writing that prayers must take a set form? Are there any contradictions in respect of this in, say, the Qur'an and the Suras (I hope that is the right term - apologies if not).


Would you be interested in reading my post #11? it was an essay of comparison/differentiation between "different types of prayers".

So, Muslims have been taught by the Prophet how to perform the Salat (the 5 daily ritual prayers) which should follow certain movements, and say certain suras (by the way, a sura is a chapter of the Qur'an, so maybe you mean't the Sunna, which is the Prophet's "legacy" or teachings).
Apart from those 5 daily prayers, any person can pray to God in the words they chose.

Also to speak again of being "a better muslim" just by memorizing the Qur'an, I'd just repeat what I've said, and what I think Linguist inferred in his post : the simple fact of memorizing the text doesn't make anyone any better as long as they don't *act* better. One simple proof : there are non-muslims who've memorized the Qur'an, I don't think we can call them good muslims, can we ?


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## fenixpollo

cherine said:
			
		

> I agree with what you say. BUT.. memorizing the Qur'an has nothing to do with participating in society. It's like prayers, for example. How do you expect prayers to be considered as being a participation in a society? That was what I meant by my previous post.


 I agree totally. I was just stretching the argument a little to make a point.


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## Outsider

emma42 said:
			
		

> Christians believe that praying to god is the way to him (usually through Jesus Christ). It is not necessary to use particular prayers or words (this does not apply to all Christians, but to many).


With all due respect, that's a very *protestant* and *modern* Christian point of view. Not too long ago, in my country, which is overwhelmingly  Catholic, people would get together to pray the _rosário_, which is just a long repetition of Hail Maries and Our Fathers, along with a few more set formulas. Or they would go to church and do/listen to the same. Nothing improvised or personal about that. Attending mass on Sunday and repeating the necessary prayers was an essential part of being a Christian. Things have grown "softer" around here, now, but it's a very recent change.


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## emma42

Linguist, thanks very much - everything is clear now on that point.

Cherine, I did read your post #11 (how politely you asked me to read it!), but things are clear now, thank you.

Outsider, I _did _say that "this does not apply to all Christians, but to many", and, yes, I suppose I did have protestantism at the back of my mind. Sorry about that, I should have been more inclusive. I was thinking more of when Christians pray to god alone, though. Although Roman Catholics may well use set formulae, there is no rule when praying alone, is there? Apart from when the priest prescribes after confession. 

Linguist, of course I'm interested! It's an incredibly interesting subject and one which means a lot to many people I know. But it's sometimes easier to ask about it in these Fora, so it's your job!


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## barkley04

emma42 said:
			
		

> Hello forer@s.  In another thread, a forero mentioned that he had memorized the Qur'an (he is a Muslim) and that those who are able to do this are called "Huffaaz".
> 
> I would like to know more about this.  At what age does this work/duty/blessing start?  Who decides who shall take it on?  Is every Muslim expected to to this, or at least attempt it, including women?  Is interpretation taught along with memorization?  Is one considered a "better" Muslim having acheived this?  If one is an illiterate Muslim, does that mean that one is less, being unable to achieve this?  Are there any parellels in other belief systems/religions?
> 
> Thank you for your views.


all I can say that what you heard is right and i will tell you why: huffaz in arabic means literally "people who learn sthg by heart" and " tha protectors" and the huffaz in islam have a great respect amo,g people and even god protects them from evil. In other words, they protect themselves because they learned the qu'ran which is a way to remember god and its commands which helps them to get immunized from evil and devilish thoughts.


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## barkley04

emma42 said:
			
		

> Thank you linguist, but I still don't understand, then, how learning the Qur'an makes one a better Muslim.  I hope I am not upsetting you.


Qur'aan is a protection or let's say an immunization from evil. Concerning the prayers, our prophet Mohammed may peace be upon him had taught the muslims how to pray and he was taught that from Gabriel may peace be upon him.


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## emma42

Thank you, barkley04, but I am aware of that.  My question was about Huffaaz, which has been answered now.  Thanks for your help.


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## maxiogee

barkley04 said:
			
		

> all I can say that what you heard is right and i will tell you why: huffaz in arabic means literally "people who learn sthg by heart" and " tha protectors" and the huffaz in islam have a great respect amo,g people and even god protects them from evil. In other words, they protect themselves because they learned the qu'ran which is a way to remember god and its commands which helps them to get immunized from evil and devilish thoughts.



Have they, having spent so long memorizing this, any time for evil or devilish thoughts?
Are they engaging with their fellow man, or are they isolating themselves from them, and from the rest of God's creation, by spending their days doing this?
The expression "they cannot see the wood for the trees" springs to mind. They are so intent on learning the rules for living life, they they could be said to be not truly experiencing life itself.


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## barkley04

maxiogee said:
			
		

> Have they, having spent so long memorizing this, any time for evil or devilish thoughts?
> Are they engaging with their fellow man, or are they isolating themselves from them, and from the rest of God's creation, by spending their days doing this?
> The expression "they cannot see the wood for the trees" springs to mind. They are so intent on learning the rules for living life, they they could be said to be not truly experiencing life itself.


huffaz after all are ordinary people but who have the gift and the talent or let's say the willingness of learning the holy qur'aan and any man or woman can learn the qur'aan and become a hafez( sing. of huffaz).


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## emma42

I can see your point, Tony, but I imagine it is down to the individual.  A person can be very learned or devout and either live in an ivory tower or choose to live in the whole world.  I have seen both and prefer the second.  I would have thought that Islam would prefer the second as well, being a practical religion with worldly concerns, such as charity and not paying interest on money.


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## barkley04

emma42 said:
			
		

> I can see your point, Tony, but I imagine it is down to the individual.  A person can be very learned or devout and either live in an ivory tower or choose to live in the whole world.  I have seen both and prefer the second.  I would have thought that Islam would prefer the second as well, being a practical religion with worldly concerns, such as charity and not paying interest on money.


well answered emma 42.


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## emma42

Oh, thank you, barkley04.  I seem to be gaining some understanding, then!


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## barkley04

emma42 said:
			
		

> Oh, thank you, barkley04. I seem to be gaining some understanding, then!


Of course you do and I congratulate you for your interest in Islam..


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## maxiogee

barkley04 said:
			
		

> huffaz after all are ordinary people …( sing. of huffaz).



I know who they are, I just queried why they do it, and why they think their God put them here on earth. Surely we are not just in a waiting-room, prior to going to an afterlife? If we are here for any reason it must be part of that reason that we participate fully in this life and what it has to offer us, all (according to those who believe in the God of "the religions of the Book") good things created by that God, for our benefit and for our use.
My point is that to exclude yourself from full participation in life is to miss the point of being here.


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## emma42

Tony, I am not an apologist for Islam or for any other religion, but nobody has said that huffaaz exclude themselves from life.  I offered a suggested answer and it was confirmed by a Muslim.  Plenty of non-religious people exclude themselves from "full participation in life".

I am glad you asked the question because this is something I have often thought about in relation to ("isolate") monks and nuns etc (of whatever religion).


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## barkley04

maxiogee said:
			
		

> I know who they are, I just queried why they do it, and why they think their God put them here on earth. Surely we are not just in a waiting-room, prior to going to an afterlife? If we are here for any reason it must be part of that reason that we participate fully in this life and what it has to offer us, all (according to those who believe in the God of "the religions of the Book") good things created by that God, for our benefit and for our use.
> My point is that to exclude yourself from full participation in life is to miss the point of being here.


In islam, god commanded that people among them the huffaz not to live in an ivory tower but to be in touch with life and human beings and god and his prophet mohamed may peace be upon him commanded us to enjoy life in the limits of the halal (the allowed or the permitted).


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## Ana Raquel

_*Cherine asked*: What's the use of memorizing something you don't understand ?! _



			
				linguist786 said:
			
		

> Simple answer - to please Allah.


 
Linguist786, how do you know that memorising without understanding pleases Allah? I mean, could you tell me where is that said in the Quran or the hadiths? which verse or which hadit?


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