# All Slavic languages: Novoslovienskij jazyk



## Maroseika

To what extent Novoslovienskij jazyk is understandable for the native speakers of different Slavic languages?

On my opinion, it looks too much close to Eastern-Slavic. I think so just because I can understand it too well unlike any of the natural Western and Southern Slavic languages. Or maybe this is an evidence of the great success of this new language developers?


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## nonik

Maroseika said:


> To what extent Novoslovienskij jazyk is understandable for the native speakers of different Slavic languages?
> 
> On my opinion, it looks too much close to Eastern-Slavic. I think so just because I can understand it too well unlike any of the natural Western and Southern Slavic languages. Or maybe this is an evidence of the great success of this new language developers?


 

Maroseika.....I talked with the autor of novoslovienski language. He just took Old Church Slavonic language and modernized it. And because Old Church Slavic served as a first written eclestical and official language almost in all the part of slavic world, then all the slavic languges are more or less influenced by ocs. language.
I read myself vocabulary OCS. language and by my surprise, I understood almost 90% of that. Of course I had problem with grammar, aorist, imperfect etc. and the rest of vocabulary (10%). But at least, one you learn aorist, imperfect and 10% of vocabulary, you recognized that it is very valuable to understand at better level others slavic languages.

And as a czech language spoken person, Old Slavonic language was choosed or designed to serve as a eclestical language primarily on Great Moravia empire, thus it has suprisingly a lot of czech features. From that point of view, I dont have any big problem to understand its modernized version called novoslovienski.

If you have a more guestions, please, contact me personnaly by email.


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## Maroseika

nonik said:


> If you have a more guestions, please, contact me personnaly by email.



Thank you for your opinion, Nonik. The only thing I was wondering to know so far is to what extent this language is intelligible to different representatives of Slavs. As far as I understood, acknowlege of the OSL helped you with Novoslovenskij pretty much. But what if you knew only your native Czech?
Russian language, as far as I know, obtained more from OSL than any other Slavic language, and obviosly that is why Novoslovenskij is so clear for me. That is why my title question.


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## nonik

Maroseika said:


> Thank you for your opinion, Nonik. The only thing I was wondering to know so far is to what extent this language is intelligible to different representatives of Slavs. As far as I understood, acknowlege of the OSL helped you with Novoslovenskij pretty much. But what if you knew only your native Czech?
> Russian language, as far as I know, obtained more from OSL than any other Slavic language, and obviosly that is why Novoslovenskij is so clear for me. That is why my title question.


 

As far as I understood, acknowlege of the OSL helped you with Novoslovenskij pretty much. But what if you knew only your native Czech?.................................................................................................No, you dont understand what I said, I started learn OCS because of Novoslovienski, and I understood novoslovienski very well before any previous knowledge of OCS.

I started learn OCS after I came in contact with NS, because I wanted to know how much similar is OCS vocabulary and grammar to nowadays czech language.

For normal czech person is NS much more better understandable than any others modern slavic languages, propably because what I wrote in previous post.


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## VelikiMag

Maroseika said:


> To what extent Novoslovienskij jazyk is understandable for the native speakers of different Slavic languages?



This is now the first time I encounter this language. Apart from my native Serbian, I know some Russian and I have no knowledge of Old Church Slavonic. I understand written text maybe more than 90%. I also understand it better than many other Slavic languages that exist.
I have also seen few videos on youtube and I understand almost everything. It sounds to me as a broken Serbian, spoken by a Czech person.


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## SkyScout

Novoslovienskij is reasonably understandable to me.  I regard it as one of only two "options" available today as a "real" panslavic language - the other being what is called either Slovianski or Medžuslovjanski.

*Novoslovienskij *and *Slovianski *are both so-called *"InterSlavic"* languages - which are based upon real Slavic languages - although *Novoslovienskij *uses the _Old Church Slavonic_ for many of its "base" forms, whereas, *Slovianski *uses only contemporary spoken Slavic languages.

*Slovianski *is the "official" language of at least two Slavic web forums (which I do not think I can post here, because of the rules of this forum).

*Novoslovienskij *attracts primarily people who like the idea of using the Old Church Slavonic language in a more modernized form. Its vocabulary, however, is not as well understandable to all Slavic speakers, unless they have studied OCS or are familiar with it from the Eastern Orthodox Christian Church.  East Slavic speakers, however - which includes Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians - usually can understand most *Novoslovienskij* word-forms, because OCS has been a part of Russian education for so long.

Another constructed language which declares itself to be a panslavic language is *"Slovio"* - which is based upon the structure of *Esperanto*.  There are, however, very few followers of *Slovio *today in comparison to *Novoslovienskij *and *Slovianski *- probably because Slovio has so many word-forms which are not based on Slavic languages, but are "neologisms" created to be simplifications of real Slavic words and function more similarly to Esperanto (IMO).

Currently, *Slovianski *is being used successfully by several law firms in western and southern Slavic countries as a "lingua franca" for legal documents and contracts (instead of using English).  The choice for using *Slovianski *was, I understand, because *Slovianski *uses only modern Slavic languages for its "base" vocabulary.

If you would like to see an example of the vocabulary of these Interslavic languages, there is an "Interslavic" lexicon available, which contains both *Slovianski *and *Novoslovienskij *word forms (as well as some *Slovio *forms).  It can be reached at www.Interslavic.com


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## Maroseika

SkyScout said:


> East Slavic speakers, however - which includes Russians, Belorussians and Ukrainians - usually can understand most *Novoslovienskij* word-forms, because OCS has been a part of Russian education for so long.



Thank you, Разведчик Небес, you answered my question and supported my guess of better understanding of Novoslovienskij by the Eastern Slavs. By the way, what's your mainly studied Slavic language?


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## nonik

Actually, I dont agree with opinion, that  east slavic spoken person will understand more novoslovienski than west slavic.
OCS and then NS vocabulary is suprisingly very understandable for czech people and my first opinion about novoslovienski was that it cant work for east and south slavs, because it look to much similar to czech language.


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## DenisBiH

*East Slavic* perspective:



Maroseika said:


> To what extent Novoslovienskij jazyk is understandable for the native speakers of different Slavic languages?
> 
> *On my opinion, it looks too much close to Eastern-Slavic.* I think so  just because I can understand it too well unlike any of the natural  Western and Southern Slavic languages. Or maybe this is an evidence of  the great success of this new language developers?





*West Slavic* perspective:



nonik said:


> Actually, I dont agree with opinion, that  east slavic spoken person will understand more novoslovienski than west slavic.
> OCS and then NS vocabulary is suprisingly very understandable for czech people and *my first opinion about novoslovienski was that it cant work for east and south slavs, because it look to much similar to czech language.*



And to quote myself for another *South Slavic* perspective:




DenisBiH said:


> Btw, I played parts of the aforementioned  interview in Novoslovienskij to my mother and a friend, neither of which  is a linguist, and they claimed to have understood almost everything.
> 
> The funny thing is that all the while reading and listening to  Novoslovienskij *I thought - ok, South Slavs should be able to understand  this, and I presume the East Slavs also, but what about West Slavs?*  Until I found several comments saying roughly "Ok, I as a West Slav  understand this, and I presume East Slavs do too, but what about South  Slavs?".




It's magic! 

One thing I don't remember having seen is what Bulgarians and Macedonians think, because of the case system issue.


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## ilocas2

I showed this language to some people and I would say that this language was understandable for them around 85 % in written form and 90-95 % in spoken form. They also said, that it's crap and boring and it's not interesting to them.


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## DenisBiH

ilocas2 said:


> They also said, that it's crap and boring and it's not interesting to them.




That sounds a lot like what a Bulgarian member of WR and a dear friend of mine thinks about English. 

What you are talking about ilocas2, is subjective perception, which is a different topic. However, since you have brought it up, I do seem to notice a pattern emerging here:

- Western Slavs (with some exceptions) and some South Slavs seem to be radically pro-English (perhaps because of earlier Germanization and Russification of their languages they see English as the least threatening?) and thus might be anti-InterSlavic
- Eastern Slavs and the remainder of South Slavs are either neutral or anti-English and thus might be pro-InterSlavic or pro-Slavic in general 

How much of what your friends say is influenced by historical, political and economic considerations?

p.s.
I know this is off-topic, but I think this definitely merits a public discussion (not via PMs), at least in Culture Cafhttp://forum.wordreference.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86é. We seem to keep bumping heads regarding this issue of Slavic mutual communication.


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## nonik

I did some research, and this one I found on some language forum. You can see how people reacted on novoslovienski language.
Seems to me that bulgarian spoken person understand it, but also he propably understand serbian language, which propably help him to understand novoslovienski.


Novoslovienskij........ Alo li dobro znaju, Staroslovienski jazyk jest podobnij Latvijskemu i Litvanskemu jazyku. I interesno jest, že tuty dva jazyka (Lat i Lit) ot sebe imajut veliku roz‘liku i Slovienskij jest jako by meždu nima. 
2. Modernij Bulgarskij jazyk jest synteza jazyka starih slovienov iz Bulgarii i severnej Grecii s indo-europskim jazykom Trakijskim, jazykom aziatskih Bulgarov, jazykom Grekskim i jazykom Tureckim. 

Russian......Як то може бити? Я не знам о Тракийском, але яка связьба меджу Современним Булгарским и азиатским Булгарским (Чувашским?)?

Novoslovienskij.......detaily ne znaju, no jest to informacia ot mojih bulgarskih priatelov profesorov iz Trakijskego univerziteta, kdieže jesm byl v Novembru prošle leto na konferencii. Imaju takože jednu bulgrasku knigu na temu "drevneb‘lgarska pisemnost" v b‘lgarskem jazyku. 


Vojta what language you write? It resembles Bulgarian very much, and I can understand everything!


Serbian.......Već sam tu jednom napisao da je Vojta svoj rad bazirao na Staroslavenskom jeziku. Taj jezik su Ćiril i Metod naučili od Bugara u Solunu a proširili ga na Moravu i sav ostali Slavenski svijet. Jedino ih je smrt u tome spriječila da taj svoj posao završe do kraja ali i ovako su umnogom uspjeli. Inače, da jesu danas bismo svi govorili Bugarski. Zato je sasvim logično što ti tako dobro razumiješ Novoslovienski.


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## ilocas2

DenisBiH said:


> How much of what your friends say is influenced by historical, political and economic considerations?



I showed it only to three people as late as today afternoon, not my friends, sorry for misleading, but I sincerely think that the reaction would be similar in 90 % of people.

I meant that it seemed to them just useless, unworthful to deal with it, uninteresting, boring, etc., not ugly or disgusting.

To say the truth, I can't recall that I ever in my life talked with anybody about Slavs, about the fact that Czech is Slavic language, that Czechs are Slavs etc. Not in the school, not in family, not between friends, I don't know, maybe few times but it really had to be only few times, because I can't remember it. It just never was an issue. We often talked about foreign countries including Slavic countries and foreign nations including Slavic nations, but we just were taking them separately, the words "Slované, slovanský etc." weren't mentioned at all. I don't know why it is so, but that's the way it is.

Sometimes there are internet discussions under news articles regarding Poland, Russia, Serbia etc. where some posts in the discussion are about if Czechs are Slavs and similar things, of course there are also for example blog articles, where people express their thoughts about Slavic things but as I said, I personally can't remember to hear the people talking about it. I just think that Czechs are less interested in these Slavic issues than others.

The only other Slavic country where I have been was Croatia, through Slovenia and Slovakia I only passed without stop, but in the time when I was there, I wasn't thinking about the fact that it's a Slavic country, it was for me just like any foreign country, today it would be probably different, because I'm already quite influenced by this forum.

I also must say that before I joined in this forum, I didn't know that Slavic languages are so similar to each other, it almost scaried me, when I realized it, I studied formerly only English, Romance languages and bit of German, I started to interest about Slavic things as late as in the last summer and before it I had little contact with other Slavic languages.

To say it briefly: I really think that Czechs belong to the least pro-Slavic Slavic nations.


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## SkyScout

I would like to note that both *Novoslovienskij ("NS")* and *Slovianski ("SVI")* are both excellent auxiliary panslavic languages.  Each of them has its own positive (& negative) elements.

My preference is that these two "Auxlangs" merge their best qualities.
Of course, who is to say what are the best elements for merger? (there is no "one authority").

Ultimately, it will be *the users themselves* who determine how "our" Panslavic language will evolve.  Most likely, it will include elements of both NS and SVI - (as well as elements of Slovio) and will become a true *Interslavic Language - Medžuslovjanski Jezyk*
_____________________________________________________________
In response to *Maroseika's* question: *"...what's your mainly studied Slavic language?"*
-*Russian *> main studied Slavic language
-*Polish *> native Slavic language
-*French *> native Romance Language
-*English *> native Germanic Language


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## Gvozdansko

As a native speaker of Croatian language I understand everything in this constructed language. Maybe not every single word (and even that is rare) but as a whole everything is understandable easily. It is even more understandable to me than Slovenian language and Croats often go on Slovenian forums and debate with Slovenes, each on its language. I just think that this language should get rid of so many unnecessary Latin and Greek terms and replace them with Slavic versions, it would be nicer.


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## SkyScout

Gvozdansko said:


> I just think that this language should get rid of so many unnecessary Latin and Greek terms and replace them with Slavic versions, it would be nicer.


I am in favour of having vocabulary "options".
The *INTERSLAVIC LEXICON* offers 5 different LEVELS of word-forms:

*LEVEL 1* = *Primary Words* - which are either:
(a) common to most all of the natural Slavic languages or
(b) recognised/understood by their speakers
Example:
*EACH* = *každy* or *vsjaki*
*TO DOWNLOAD* = *daunlodovati* (imperf) *daunloditi* (perf) *dostyvati* (imperf) / *dostati* (perf)​
*LEVEL 2* = *Secondary Words* - which are NOT common to all or most natural Slavic languages; perhaps only one or two or three.
Example:
*KNOWLEDGE *= *veda - vedenje - vednost' ** (_versus_ *Level 1* = *znanje - znalost'*)
* - these are Western Slavic word-forms​*WILD *= *"diki" (Bu, Pl, Ru, Ua) - "divy" (Bg, Hr, Mk, Sl, Sr) - "divoki"  (cz, sk)*​
*LEVEL 3* = *Constructed Words ("Neologisms")* -  to substitute or represent words:

(a) when they do not exist universally among the natural Slavic languages, or
(b) to increase understandability for either or both Slavic speakers or non-Slavic speakers.
Example:
*WILD *= *"dikvy"* (combination of *"diki"* and *"divy"* )
*DICTIONARY *= *"slovkniga"*
*CITY *= *"velgrad"* (from *"veliki grad"*)
*VILLAGE *= *"malgrad"* (from *"maly grad"*)
*TO BURY* = *"podzemleti"*
*HARDLY *= *"ljedva"* (combination of *"ledva"* (Western Slavic) & *"jedva"* (Eastern & Southern Slavic)​
*LEVEL 4 = Legal Words* - for use primarily in legal and financial contracts and documents.

*LEVEL 5 = Foreign Words* - Latin, French, English, Greek, etc. etc. -based word forms
_______________________________________
As of the date this of this post, *Novoslovienskij *does not have an online lexicon or dictionary.
It does offer a *Czech - Novoslovienskij / Novoslovienskij - Czech* offline dictionary *HERE*.


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## nonik

Guys,
just small info.

1200 words are same or very similar in the way of the meaning between all slavic languages (you have 12 of them).

If you take just one language away, we have 2000 words.

and there arent even count words with preffixes and suffixes.

If you know these words, you are able to comunicate on good basic level.

Just imagine, how you learn english, from simplifying books, started on 600 words and ending on 4 000 words.


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## TriglavNationalPark

SkyScout said:


> Example:
> *KNOWLEDGE *= *veda - vedenje - vednost' ** (_versus_ *Level 1* = *znanje - znalost'*)
> * - these are Western Slavic word-forms


 
Not just West Slavic but also Slovenian -- the *vedeti* / *znati* isogloss passes through Slovenia.


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## nonik

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Not just West Slavic but also Slovenian -- the *vedeti* / *znati* isogloss passes through Slovenia.


 

there are propably known in all the slavic languages, the word veda is even in sanskrit.
very close to word viděti

word divý is also czech word.


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## Gvozdansko

Vedeti is a common indoeuropean word (*weyd - to know). In Croatian this word is preserved in a word _pripovijedati_ which means to tell somebody a story or a tale, or to talk about something to someone. It is composed of pri + povijest and povijest is made of po + vijest and vijest is derived from věstь, i.e. vědě - to know. I assume that similar examples can be found in every Slavic language.


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## TriglavNationalPark

nonik said:


> there are propably known in all the slavic languages, the word veda is even in sanskrit.
> very close to word viděti


 


Gvozdansko said:


> Vedeti is a common indoeuropean word (*weyd - to know). In Croatian this word is preserved in a word _pripovijedati_ which means to tell somebody a story or a tale, or to talk about something to someone. It is composed of pri + povijest and povijest is made of po + vijest and vijest is derived from věstь, i.e. vědě - to know. I assume that similar examples can be found in every Slavic language.


 
Right, but the modern-day isogloss of the verb *vedeti *(and the nouns *veda, vedenje, *and* vednost*) passes through Slovenia; the words are not, as far as I know, found in other standard South Slavic languages. Only a few remnants, such as the one mentioned by Gvozdansko, still exist south of Slovenia.

Due to the location of the isogloss, *vedeti* is also absent from some Slovenian dialects, having been replaced by *znati *(which has a narrower meaning in standard Slovenian).


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## SkyScout

Gvozdansko said:


> Vedeti is a common indoeuropean word (*weyd - to know).... I assume that similar examples can be found in every Slavic language.


 


TriglavNationalPark said:


> Right, but the modern-day isogloss of the verb *vedeti *(and the nouns *veda, vedenje, *and* vednost*) passes through Slovenia; the words are not, as far as I know, found in other standard South Slavic languages. Only a few remnants, such as the one mentioned by Gvozdansko, still exist south of Slovenia.





Gvozdansko said:


> I think that only *Polish* preserves the *"ved-"* form as "knowledge". -Due to the location of the isogloss, *vedeti* is also absent from some Slovenian dialects, having been replaced by *znati *(which has a narrower meaning in standard Slovenian).


 
For a Panslavic language, the *Primary Word *should be understood by all - or most all - of the speakers of the natural Slavic languages. In the case of _"knowledge"_, I think that only *"znanje/znanie"* meets this test.

While there may be examples of *"ved-"* in all of the natural Slavic languages, I do not believe _"veda" "vednost'"_ etc. would automatically be understood to mean "knowledge".

I think that only *Polish* preserves the *"ved-"* form as "knowledge".
In *Czech and Slovak* _"veda"_ means _"science"_ most of the time (please correct me if I am wrong).

In Russian -* "ве́дать"* obviously derives from the original IE word-form - however, today it carries a meaning of more of _"to manage" or "to be in charge of"_ - although it can mean "to know" also. But Russian primarily uses the *"zna-"* form.

For your information, I have collected the various Slavic words for "knowledge" (if any are wrong, please let us know):


Interslavic Lexicon - znalost', znanje; veda, vednost'
Русский - знания
Українська - знання
Беларуская - веды
Polski - wiedza, wiadomość,
Čeština - vědomost, vědomosti, vědění, poznání
Slovenčina - vedomosť, vedomosti, veda, poznanie
Slovenščina - znanje, vedenje, vednost
Hrvatski - znanja, razumjevanje
Cрпски - знање
Македонски - знаење, познавање
Български - знания, познания
Slovio - znanie
Novoslovienskij - izpravienie, poznanie, znanie
Slovianski - znanje


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## TriglavNationalPark

Gvozdansko said:


> I think that only *Polish* preserves the *"ved-"* form as "knowledge".


 
In Slovenian, *vedenje* means "knowledge about", while *vednost* means "knowledge of" in the sense of "awareness". *Znanje*, whose meaning is broader, can replace *vedenje* in most contexts, even though the verb *znati* cannot replace the verb *vedeti*.

*Veda* refers to a _field_ of science.


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## SkyScout

TriglavNationalPark said:


> *Veda* refers to a _field_ of science.


*In Slovenian?  Yes?*
(e.g. in Polish, "veda" ~ "wiedza" is always "knowledge" --- "science" is "nauka" )


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## TriglavNationalPark

SkyScout said:


> *In Slovenian? Yes?*
> (e.g. in Polish, "veda" ~ "wiedza" is always "knowledge" --- "science" is "nauka" )


 
Yes.


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## glupson

I just discovered the Novoslovienskij Jazyk , thanks to Wordreference forum - great! I understand 99% of it.


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## Istriano

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Due to the location of the isogloss, *vedeti* is also absent from some Slovenian dialects, having been replaced by *znati *(which has a narrower meaning in standard Slovenian).[/COLOR]



I've heard ''ne vem'' (for I don't know) but I can't say whether it's Slovenian or Kajkavian.  I can't remember.


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## nonik

věděti = znati is standard ocs word

вѣдѣти, вѣмь, вѣси> see, know 

http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/ocsol-BF-X.html


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## TriglavNationalPark

Istriano said:


> I've heard ''ne vem'' (for I don't know) but I can't say whether it's Slovenian or Kajkavian.  I can't remember.


 
It's Slovenian. It may also be present in some Kajkavian subdialects, although the Slovenian dialects that are directly transitional to Kajkavian tend to use *znati* instead. A map with showing this *vedeti*/*znati* isogloss would be interesting, but I've yet to see it.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Mod note: Some recent posts dealing with the development of modern Slavic languages and their relationship to common Slavic have been moved HERE.


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## Mirzoska

Hello, I am new at this forum, just accidantly stumbled upon it while looking google for some info on slav languages. First of all I want to thank to forum member nonik who sent me a link containing web newspaper written in Novoslovienskij jazyk. I searched youtube and found interwiev with profesor Merunkoj, and i had no problem at all understunding his 15 min. interwiev.What amazed me is that i see all you speakers of western or eastern slavic languages being able to understand it. When saying this i have in mind primarlly Western slavs, i tought this interwiev will be more eassily understud by south and east slavic speakers. As DenisBiH has had said it 


> Btw, I played parts of the aforementioned  interview in Novoslovienskij  to my mother and a friend, neither of which  is a linguist, and they  claimed to have understood almost everything.
> 
> The funny thing is that all the while reading and listening to  Novoslovienskij *I thought - ok, South Slavs should be able to understand  this, and I presume the East Slavs also, but what about West Slavs?*   Until I found several comments saying roughly "Ok, I as a West Slav   understand this, and I presume East Slavs do too, but what about South   Slavs?".


I complletly agree with him, this is exactlly what i had felt.
It would really be great if there is some Study book, with 20 or so lessons filled with dialogs, short articles, short grammar explanations so we could read it in form of dialogs. I am finding haveing hard time finding compleet vocabullary list for Novoslovienskij on its officail google page. If some of you dear frieends would be kind enough to show me where i can find these word lists for Novosloviensij jazyik i woul be really greatfull to you.


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## Mirzoska

I have found dictionary for Slovianski, i wonder how much is Slovianski dictionary different fron Novoslovienskij? Or they are basicly the same in that area (words)?


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## SkyScout

This topic should really be transfered to a new heading called *"INTERLSLAVIC"* - because the so-called "Auxiliary Slavic languages" known as *"Novoslovienskij"* and_* "Slovianski"*_ (and the more simpler, esperanto-like _*"Slovianto"*_) have joined under the common moniker/banner of *"INTERSLAVIC"* or *"MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI"* in the last several months.

Both "Auxlangs" now use a common "Lexicon" called the *"Interslavic Lexicon"*, which can be found at *http://www.interslavic.com*.

 There are some differences between Novosolovienskij and Slovianski - mainly in their orthography.
*Novoslovienskij* was originally intended to be based upon *Old Church Slavonic* ("OCS")- as an updated, modernised version of it - with a noticeable flavouring of Czech word-forms, the native language of its creator. 
*Slovianski* is based upon the commonalities of all spoken, major, *modern Slavic languages* - and was assembled since *2006* by a collaborative effort of speakers from all Slavic language, rather than just one country. 
Since the two languages have "joined" together under the banner of* "Interslavic / Medžuslovjanski"*, Novoslovienskij has automatically expanded its vocabulary to include words that are more fully recognisable by all Slavic speakers, and not just those who are familiar with OCS or Czech.

Of the two, *Slovianski* is the older tongue, created in *2006*.
*Novoslovienskij* was introduced in *2010*.
As noted above, both use the Interslavic Lexicon as their primary vocabluary source, however, because of its earlier creation, the orthography of Slovianski is used (the differences are minor:  *Slovianski *masculine adjectives end in *"-y or -i"* where *Novoslovienskij's* end in _*"-ij"*_;
*Novoslovienskij* will use _*"-ie-"*_ combinations, where *Slovianski* will only use _*"-e-"*_ > e.g. *"WHITE" = **"BELY"* in *Slovianski* and *"BIELIJ"* in *Novoslovienski*.

*Grammatically*, both Auxlangs are very similar - however, *Novoslovienskij* includes declension and conjugation forms from _Old Church Slavonic_, which today are used only in the some of the Southern Slavic languages - _e.g.  "dual" and "aorist" cases_.

The *orthography and rules* of *Novoslovienskij* may be found at: *http://www.novoslovienskij.org*.  It is written in Novoslovienskij.
The *orthography and rules* of *Slovianski* may be found at: *http://www.slovianski.com*.*** It is written in English.
The *orthography and rules* of *Slovianto* (_the more simpler, esperanto-like form of Interslavic_) may be found at: *http://www.slovianto.org*. It is written in English.

** - *_the Slovianski website also includes automatic declension and verb conjugation engines and two "transcription engines" to convert Cyrillic text to Latin text and vice versa (in the several different varieties of them:  Serbia, Russian, Ukrainian, etc.)_

*Slovianski's* forum may be found at:  *http://s8.zetaboards.com/Slovianski/index/*
*Novoslovienkij* does not have a formal forum, but does have a posting chat group at Facebook:  *http://www.facebook.com/groups/neoslavonic*
The *two Auxlangs together* have a posting group at Facebook: *http://www.facebook.com/groups/interslavic/ *

*Both Slovianski and Novoslovienskij* post relevant *news and human interest articles* at *http://www.izviestija.info*

Currently,*Interslavic* is being used primarily as an _online communication medium_ - although, several *law firms* in *four (4) different Slavic countries* (_Croatia, Czech Republic, Poland and Serbia_) have been using the *Slovianski* version of Interslavic now for two years (since 2009) for *legal contracts* and *financial documentation* for their clients who conduct business between different Slavic speaking language countries
(in the past, such contracts were prepared in the two different Slavic languages and English as well; today, these contracts are still prepared in the two Slavic languages, but Interslavic is substituted for English).

I hope this answers your question and offers some clarity about these contempoary Panslavic Languages.


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## Mirzoska

Thank you all for answering


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## Arath

DenisBiH said:


> One thing I don't remember having seen is what Bulgarians and Macedonians think, because of the case system issue.



Well, it is a problem, not so much in understanding the language but in producing it.

Cases after prepositions are not an obstacle to intelligibility, but when there is no preposition, the meaning might be obscured. Here's a list (in increasing order of difficulty) of where the meaning is hard to understand, because there is no preposition.

Expressing the possessor (Genitive)
Expressing the indirect object (Dative)
Expressing the instrument of an action (Instrumental)

I think all of the above can be substituted with an appropriate preposition: *ot* or *iz* for Genitive, *k* for Dative and *s* for Instrumental.

If they want to make a language that is equally easy to understand and produce for ALL Slavic speakers, then they have to get rid of the declension, otherwise Bulgarians and Macedonians are kind of left out. It's just too much to ask of people whose native language doesn't have cases to learn to use a system of six cases. Such a language doesn't fare very well compared to English.

I know that without the cases the language will seem broken to other Slavic speakers but some people have already said that it does seem broken, so I don't think that the lack of cases will be a problem for them.

Personally, I understand over 90% of the language, but I don't have problems with cases.


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## nonik

for bulgars and macedonian with minimum cases .........it is already done. I wont post links, but you can find it on ( 9th October 2011 11:03 PM  Sky-Scout ) under name of Slovianto.


I am not sure, but completely without cases is maybe Slovio from Mark Hučko.


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## Arath

nonik said:


> for bulgars and macedonian with minimum cases .........it is already done. I wont post links, but you can find it on ( 9th October 2011 11:03 PM  Sky-Scout ) under name of Slovianto.
> 
> 
> I am not sure, but completely without cases is maybe Slovio from Mark Hučko.



Slovianto is too simplified, to the point that might actually be bad for intelligibility. "*I cela zemja imala jedin jezik*" sounds better than "*I cele zemja imal jedin jezik*".

Novoslovienskij would seem perfect without the cases.

Here's an example of the difficulty a native Bulgarian speaker might have (from the Novoslovienskij's webpage):

"Prošu Vas, da byste jego čitali i poslali *drugom svojim*, jako li oni hočut to vidieti."

First I thought that was an instance of the instrumental case, because of the characteristic -*om* ending for masculine nouns, and the -*im* ending for masculine adjectives. It didn't make any sense to me. Then I read the plural pronoun "*oni*" and remembered that in Old Church Slavonic *-omь* was an instrumental ending for singular masculine nouns and *-omъ* was a dative ending for plural nouns and I realized that "*drugom svojim*" actually means "*to your own friends*".

Needless to say that an average Bulgarian speaker wouldn't have figured it out and the above sentence would be 50% unintelligible to them.


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## VelikiMag

Arath said:


> "Prošu Vas, da byste jego čitali i poslali *drugom svojim*, jako li oni hočut to vidieti."


I would also struggle to understand this properly. The last thing that would come to my mind is that _drugom_ is actually dative plural of _drug_. Although the second part of the sentence indicates to exactly that. It simply doesn't sound to me as plural.
If the sentence was: "Da byste jego čitali i poslali drugom,..." then it would make a perfect sense, cause _drugom_ would mean here "_to someone else_".


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## SkyScout

VelikiMag said:


> I would also struggle to understand this properly. The last thing that would come to my mind is that _drugom_ is actually dative plural of _drug_. Although the second part of the sentence indicates to exactly that. It simply doesn't sound to me as plural.
> If the sentence was: "Da byste jego čitali i poslali drugom,..." then it would make a perfect sense, cause _drugom_ would mean here "_to someone else_".



You have given a very good example of why - in our panslavic word-form choices - we must be careful.
One of the goals of our Interslavic Lexicon / Medžslovjanski leksikon, is to suggest words that will be best understood by a majority of Slavic speakers.
We do this by categorising words in* "LEVELS"* - where *Level 1* is intended to be the primary word-form for maximum understanding.  *Level 2* is intended to have limited understanding - usually by just 2 or 3 groups of slavic speakers.

Thus, for *"friend"*, the *Interslavic Lexicon* shows the following @ http://dict.slovioski.com/index.jsp?input=both&word=friend&type=exact:



*English**Interslavic**Explanation**T**L**C*frienddrugn2ifrienddružnicafemalenf1ifrienddružnecmalenm1ifriendprijatel'nm1




_*"drug"*_ is shown as Level 2 - whereas _"družnica"_ and _"družnec"_ are shown as level 1, because their meanings are more self-evident (although, there is still controversy as to whether these should be displayed at all).
However, the *LEVEL 1* word for* "friend"* is* " prijatel' "*, which is most universally understood among Slavic speakers.


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## VelikiMag

Word _drug/друг_ exists in BCMS language and in Eastern Slavic languages as well. In Western group there is _druh_, so I guess it would be more or less obvious. The problem which I see here is the declension. For dative plural, we have suffix *-ima* and _*-ama*_, and in Eastern group it is _*-ам/-ям*_. Now I see that _*-om*_ is specific for Western group, at least for Polish. So like I already said, suffix _*-om*_ to me doesn't sound as if it can be plural. And what increases the confusion even more here is the adjective _drugi (other)_. The adjectival suffix for dative and locative singular in BCMS is _*-om*_. In Russian it is *-ому* and _*-ом*_. This is why the part "_poslati drugom_" I can only understand as "_send to other/someone else_", and not as "_send to friends_" which was intended.


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## polskajason

VelikiMag said:


> Word _drug/друг_ exists in BCMS language and in Eastern Slavic languages as well. In Western group there is _druh_, so I guess it would be more or less obvious. The problem which I see here is the declension. For dative plural, we have suffix *-ima* and _*-ama*_, and in Eastern group it is _*-ам/-ям*_. Now I see that _*-om*_ is specific for Western group, at least for Polish. So like I already said, suffix _*-om*_ to me doesn't sound as if it can be plural. And what increases the confusion even more here is the adjective _drugi (other)_. The adjectival suffix for dative and locative singular in BCMS is _*-om*_. In Russian it is *-ому* and _*-ом*_. This is why the part "_poslati drugom_" I can only understand as "_send to other/someone else_", and not as "_send to friends_" which was intended.


A lot of declensions and conjugations are confusing from one Slavic language to another.

In BCS, "Jasonovi" means "Jason's" (possessive). In Polish, Jasonowi is Dative for Jason, and the Dative can not indicate possession like it can in BCS (that's exclusively done using the Genitive in Polish).

Russian verb endings sound mixed up to someone who speaks a Western or Southern Slavic language.

Pisat' in Russian is like pisac' in Polish or pisati in BCS, but:
Russian: ja pišu
BCS: oni pišu
but
Russian: my pišem
BCS: ja pišem

Somewhat unrelatedly, don't get me started about "no" meaning "yeah" in Polish...


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## nonik

I looked at the page where is novoslovienski grammar, and according to grammar suppose to be... DRUGAM
................because plural dativ is ...bratam,hlebam
"Prošu Vas, da byste jego čitali i poslali *DRUGAM SVOJIM*, jako li oni hočut to vidieti."

propably the mistake occurred.


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## VelikiMag

nonik said:


> I looked at the page where is novoslovienski grammar, and according to grammar suppose to be... DRUGAM
> ................because plural dativ is ...bratam,hlebam
> "Prošu Vas, da byste jego čitali i poslali *DRUGAM SVOJIM*, jako li oni hočut to vidieti."
> 
> propably the mistake occurred.


Good to know this, thank you for checking it. It now sounds much better.


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## VelikiMag

polskajason said:


> Russian verb endings sound mixed up to someone who speaks a Western or Southern Slavic language.
> 
> Pisat' in Russian is like pisac' in Polish or pisati in BCS, but:
> Russian: ja pišu
> BCS: oni pišu
> but
> Russian: my pišem
> BCS: ja pišem


Some of them are mixed up indeed, but after a little practice it becomes normal.

Modal verbs _htjeti/хотеть _and _moći/мочь_ are same in first person:
Russian: _я хочу, я могу_
BCS: _ja hoću, ja mogu_


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## glupson

The project of Novoslovienskih jazyk stil exists?


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## SkyScout

glupson said:


> The project of Novoslovienskih jazyk stil exists?



Yes.
The *Novosloviensky Project* (now called _*"Neoslavonic"*_) can be found at:

*http://www.neoslavonic.org/*

The parallel project called *"Medžuslovjanski" or "Interslavic"* may be found at:

*http://www.interslavic.net* or *http://www.medzuslovjanski.com*

The *Lexicon* used by both _*NeoSlavonic and InterSlavic*_ may be found at:

*http://dict.interslavic.com*

(additional LINKS may be found at the Lexicon)

Finally, there are these following forums available for both *Interslavic* and *NeoSlavonic*:

*Zetaboard INTERSLAVIC / MEDŽUSLOVJANSKI FORUM:* *http://s8.zetaboards.com/Slovianski/index/*

*Facebook INTERSLAVIC FORUM:* *https://www.facebook.com/groups/interslavic/
*
*Facebook NEOSLAVONIC FORUM:* *https://www.facebook.com/groups/neoslavonic/*


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## willem81

That is quite interesting. So there are indeed attempts of promoting the Slavic lingua franca, which is somewhat similar to the Danish linguists' attempt of creating a common Scandinavian language once. The latter, as I have heard, did not achieve any success and the project was suspended or forgotten. But the idea of the common Slavic language seems very attractive to me.


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## SkyScout

I did NOT know about the attempt to achieve a common Scandinavian language.  _*Is there any information available about that project online?*_
I have been using Interslavic now for several years in my communications with Slavic-speaking people in my company (we have offices in Prague, Warsaw, Zagreb and Belgrade) (we are lawyers).  For several years now we have prepared legal contracts in a "version" of Interslavic - when the parties are from two different Slavic-speaking countries.  Although not "official" - because Interslavic has not been officially accepted as a recognised language for legal contracts, it nonetheless bridges - t.j. "unites" - the parties to a  better mutual understanding.


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## willem81

SkyScout said:


> I did NOT know about the attempt to achieve a common Scandinavian language.  _*Is there any information available about that project online?*_



The information about that project can be found in the following thread:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=691110

from the post number 3 and further on.


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## SkyScout

I find it interesting to read that the first corpus planning for the Inter-Scandinavian language was to reduce _*"...at least some of the differences concerning orthography..."*_ between the languages.
(from *http://ancilla.unice.fr/~brunet/pub/ulla.html* )


In the ongoing efforts of the *Interslavic team*, we found orthography to be most significant.
Once we finally agreed upon a common orthography, we discovered that the level of understanding of our respective native word-forms to those of our brothers' forms increased dramatically when we transformed them both to the Interslavic orthography.


One of the most amazing exercises was to transliterate a Polish sentence into Interslavic orthography.  Suddenly, Czechs, Slovaks, Slovenians and Croatians' levels of understanding from the orthography change increased perhaps 60% - i.e./t.j. - without translation, just transliteration.    


Here is the link to the _Slavic Language _*TRANSLITERATOR*:  *http://steen.free.fr/interslavic/transliterator_extended.html*


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## Roman A

TriglavNationalPark said:


> It's Slovenian. It may also be present in some Kajkavian subdialects, although the Slovenian dialects that are directly transitional to Kajkavian tend to use *znati* instead. A map with showing this *vedeti*/*znati* isogloss would be interesting, but I've yet to see it.


 Ukrainian Znaty-to know, Vidaty-to know(archaism)


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## ahvalj

polskajason said:


> Russian verb endings sound mixed up to someone who speaks a Western or Southern Slavic language.
> 
> Pisat' in Russian is like pisac' in Polish or pisati in BCS, but:
> Russian: ja pišu
> BCS: oni pišu
> but
> Russian: my pišem
> BCS: ja pišem


Ironically, the Russian endings in both these cases are old, while those in BSC are innovations. I think the very idea of inventing another language by randomly combining elements of related languages is not especially satisfying — even from a creator's perspective, not to mention any practical usage. If I were commissioned to do something like this, I would have taken a Common Slavic language as reconstructed for the end of the first millennium and started to change it phonetically, lexically and grammatically as if it were a naturally evolving language — trying, of course, not to produce too deviating forms. In particular, I would have left the conjugational endings as close to the prototype as possible, since that system with two basic declensions was simpler and more transparent than the one in later West and South Slavic languages that lost the intervocal -j- (i. e. original delaju instead of the newer delam etc.).


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## Roman A

Ukrainian: ja pyšu(rus ja pišu), ja pysatymu(rus ja budu pisat'), vony pyšut'(rus oni pišut), vony pysatymut'(rus oni budut pisat'), my pyšemo(rus my pišem), my pysatymemo(russian my budim pisat')


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