# Ish



## ayupshiplad

Ola!!

I was wondering if you had an equivalent word 'ish'? Not necessarily as a suffix, but also just by itself- a 'disjunctive ish' 

Eg: "Do you get what I'm on about?"
     "Ish." 

Cheers!


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## Macunaíma

I'm not acquainted with that use of _"ish"_, but I'd be interested to learn. Perhaps you could give a more detailed explanation of its use so we can come up with somethig...


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## ayupshiplad

Ah that surprises me!!

It means 'sort of/kind of'. These three terms are pretty much intercambiaveis  

"Do you understand?"
"sort of."
="kind of."
="ish."

Any clearer?


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## panjabigator

Ish can also be attached as a sort of suffix to a word.  

Example:
"What time will you arrive?"
"7ish."

I haven't really seen stand alone like this before though.


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## Outsider

It must be Brit youth slang. I'm afraid the only possible translation in Portuguese is "mais ou menos". Well, or "assim-assim" (so-so).


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## ayupshiplad

I can assure you it is not British youth slang!!! It can be used as a suffix, used in the same sense (most of the time) as the suffix -y, but it can stand alone and make perfect sense.

Edit: It's like the French 'mouais' (I believe) if you know what that is. Maybe mais ou menos is the best translation? 
Eg: "Do you like him?" "Ish". "Gostas dele?" "Mais ou menos".


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## Outsider

I am familiar with the suffix _-ish_. The use of _ish_ alone as a word, however, is a novelty I had never encountered before.

P.S. French _mouais_ (_hmm + oui_) is also youth slang.


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## ayupshiplad

Ahhh but just because mouais is youth slang doesn't mean that 'ish' is! I've heard people of my parents generation say it!!


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## HistofEng

Ish as a word is said over here in the US too but it sounds very colloquial.


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## panjabigator

But have you heard it by itself?


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## Alandria

Parece-me uma interjeição.


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## panjabigator

In Hindi, we do have an interjection "ish," but I cannot think of the English to explain it.  Sorry, probably not really relevent at all, but Alandria's post got me a thinkin'.


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## avok

I have never heard "ish" on its own


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## Dawei

Maybe its not youth slang...another example of how much more sophisticated BE is compared to AE perhaps 

I agree with outsider, mais ou menos seems to at least carry the same meaning, albeit without the lighthearted feel.


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## Dom Casmurro

If I get it right, _ish_ is a purposely unconvincing way of saying _yes_. I don't think _mais ou menos_ conveys the same idea, as there is hesitation here between _yes_ and _no_. You can't make a decision out a _mais ou menos _reply, but you can do so based on a _ish_ one, however _ishy_ that decision will be. This having been said, I don't think there is a Portuguese equivalent to _ish_. The only way of saying it is by whispering the _yes_ word with a shoulder-shrugging attitude.


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## Vanda

Funny thing, the first thing that came to my mind before reading the posts was our interjection *ixe*!!! I agree with those who said about _mais ou meno_s as one possibility to the EN usage as explained.


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## avok

Maybe the suffix "ish" and the answer "ish" have different etymologies.


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## Alchemy

I have never heard 'ish' being used independently, just as a suffix.


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## pauloamado

Ayupshiplad, I'm Brazilian and I live in England, as far as I can tell "ish" is used a lot around here. About it being a "British youth slang" as it has been said, I really don't think so, but then again, I have not much reference from the US English usage except for movies and TV series.

Translating "ish" would entirely depend on the context. As you have mentioned, "mais ou menos" would be safe for most cases, but unless you don't give me the whole sentence, don't quote me on that 

Using the examples given here in this topic:
"Do you get what I'm on about?" ("Entendeu o que eu disse/estou dizendo?")
"Ish." ("Mais ou menos"/"Quase")

"What time will you arrive?" ("A que horas você chega"/"A que horas você vai chegar")
"7ish." ("Por volta das 7")

And no, I've never seen this in Portuguese neither as a suffix nor as a word by itself, sorry.

Best regards.
Paulo.


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## olivinha

I had never seen _ish_ used as in Ayup’s example: _really on its own_. The only _ish_ I knew was used as some sort of tag word but placed after a whole sentence:
_How is the book going?_
_It’s going ok. Ish._
Or something like that.
But I did think it was a slang word. 
Regardless when I first read the opening post, my gut reaction was, ok, this is a suffix that is so much used as so, it can be itself a word, so _ish_ = _kind of_, _sort of_. 
If I may draw an analoy, in Portuguese we can do something similar with the suffix for superlatives _íssimo_:
_-Tá gostoso?_
_-Síssimo!_
Of course, this is not a word in Portuguese, (and will vary from word to word, i.e. _difícil - líssimo_, but I think everybody gets the analogy here.)

Anyway, Ayup, if you are looking for a word in Portuguese that is suffix but it can be a "stand-alone" word which convey the same modifying meaning as the suffix will when attached to the word it is modifying (phew...), we don't have that, not that I can recall. My first reaction when I read your question was to reply _mais ou menos_, and even though Dom Casmurro's post got me thinking (as usual  ), I will still stick to _mais ou menos_.

I might add that there are several entries in the urban dictionary for _ish_, some of which coincide with the meaning we are discussing here.



> 4. "Ish" is used as a stand-in for "sort of" and "kind of," often tacked on to the end of a statement.
> _How was the opera? It was good. Ish._
> _Did you like the sweater your Aunt Marcy knitted for you?_
> _Eh..... ish._


O


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## Dom Casmurro

1) - Gostou do filme?
- Gostei... quer dizer... (and nothing else is said)

2) - Gostou do filme?
- Gostei, mas... (ditto)

3) - Gostou do filme?
- [long pause amidst some frowning and shrugging, and finally the hesitating answer:] Gostei...

The three answers above can serve the same purpose as the _ish_ word. All of them imply that the person did enjoy the film, but not wholeheartedly. Now, replace those words by _mais ou menos:_

- Gostou do filme?
- Mais ou menos.

There is no enjoying here, no approval. The film was not a lousy one, but it was far from good. If its quality was to be judged by number of stars, then it could get two out of five.

In contrast, in the first three answers, some degree of satisfaction may be present, and the film could well deserve three of five stars.


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## olivinha

Dom Casmurro said:


> 1)
> - Gostou do filme?
> - Mais ou menos.
> There is no enjoying here, no approval. The film was not a lousy one, but it was far from good. If its quality was to be judged by number of stars, then it could get two out of five.


Hi, Dom.
But if there is neither enjoyment nor approval, one might as well answer _no_, or _not really_. When I say _mais ou menos_ what I want to convey is that there is something positive about what I am qualifying, afterall "mais" is there. As I see it, a "_mais ou menos_ thing" (if I may put it that way) is one that has both good and bad aspects about it, that balance out for a answer in m_ais ou menos _terms. 
O

PS: Ah, by the way, I liked your other suggestions for the translation of _ish_.


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## ayupshiplad

Oh multiquoting really rather upsets me. No matter how hard I try, it always quotes in reverse...so forgive the slightly backwards order please!




olivinha said:


> I had never seen _ish_ used as in Ayup’s example: _really on its own_. The only _ish_ I knew was used as some sort of tag word but placed after a whole sentence:
> _How is the book going?_
> _It’s going ok. Ish._
> Or something like that.


 
Ah but that's what I mean! Like no-one would just say 'ish' randomly if it weren't in response to a question (or sometimes almost negating a statement...if that's possible Eg: "I think Sandra's really nice". "Hmm..ish") I hope I have clarified that slightly...!



Dom Casmurro said:


> If I get it right, _ish_ is a purposely unconvincing way of saying _yes_...The only way of saying it is by whispering the _yes_ word with a shoulder-shrugging attitude.


 
When I first read that, I disagreed, but now I think that it maybe is a purposefully unconvincing way of saying yes, if you really analyse the meaning of the word. Hmm. This had made me ponder! Also, ish is normally said when involuntarily shrugging your shoulders...

Hmm, I think for the most part mais ou menos would work, though Dom Casmurro also gave some rather good suggestions in #21 I think. I will try them out and see if I sound like an idiot  (I.e. because I will probably use them wrongly, not because DC's suggestions were idiotic...!) Anyway, thanks everyone for lots of replies and suggestions!


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## jazyk

> I can assure you it is not British youth slang!!! It can be used as a suffix, used in the same sense (most of the time) as the suffix -y, but it can stand alone and make perfect sense.


http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2007/09/ish-and-moreish.html


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## Dom Casmurro

Hi Lil'Olive, how are you?
What is interesting about these threads of ours is that we deal with questions that cannot be answered but through subjective criteria. 
I'm ready to agree with you, but before I do, I have a question for you: would you hire an employee that is _mais ou menos_? How about a _goodish_ one?


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## Arrius

The -ish suffix is basically good grammatical English, as in greenish, reddish, yellowish, meaning a pale version of these colours, From this its use has been extended to youngish and oldish, the first more acceptable than the second and novel uses such as sevenish (about seven o'clock), which would probably be crossed out by the English teacher in a school essay. -ish is a sort of diminutive like French -âtre or Spanish -ito. The Portuguese for greenish is verdeado, but maybe some words in -ish could be rendered by the suffix -zinho. -ish cannot stand on its own, and even the examples given in earlier posts where this appears to be the case, there is a word expressed or implied to which this suffix is attached. _Was the play good? (Good) -ish._


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## olivinha

Dom Casmurro said:


> Hi Lil'Olive, how are you?
> What is interesting about these threads of ours is that we deal with questions that cannot be answered but through subjective criteria.


 



Dom Casmurro said:


> I'm ready to agree with you, but before I do, I have a question for you: would you hire an employee that is _mais ou menos_? How about a _goodish_ one?


 
Hahahahaha! Good one, Dom.
I see what you are saying, between the _mais ou menos_ guy and the _goodish _one, the latter wins. Even though you've pushed a little bit to your side as you attached a positive adjective to _ish_, and nothing to _mais ou menos_. (Mais ou menos o quê? Mais ou menos bom?)
Still, as I see it, _ish_ robs a bit of the intensity, the sharpness, the accuracy of the word (meaningwise, of course). So good is better than goodish (mais ou menos bom). So 7ish, is not really 7, is around 7 (mais ou menos 7).
O


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## ayupshiplad

Arrius said:


> -ish cannot stand on its own, and even the examples given in earlier posts where this appears to be the case, there is a word expressed or implied to which this suffix is attached. _Was the play good? (Good) -ish._


 
What about:

"Did you understand?"
"Ish." 

You would have to replace the 'ish' with "Yeah, I sort of understand" to convey the same vagueness, wouldn't you?



jazyk said:


> http://separatedbyacommonlanguage.blogspot.com/2007/09/ish-and-moreish.html


 
What a good link! So basically, -ish as a suffix is universal English, whereas ish on it's on is British


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## panjabigator

ayupshiplad said:


> What about:
> 
> "Did you understand?"
> "Ish."
> 
> You would have to replace the 'ish' with "Yeah, I sort of understand" to convey the same vagueness, wouldn't you?




Ok, that I concede that I've heard before and never used.  And I don't think you'll hear it on this side of the pond.


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## panjandrum

Attracted to this fascinating conversation by the standalone ish idea.

Colloquial, perhaps, but slang, no. 
The first listing in the Oxford English Dictionary is from a commentary in the Sunday Times literary review section.  An unlikely place to find slang.

It is a very convenient way to express ambivalence without having to find the right specific word.  It is also very efficient - expressing a great deal in a very short sound.

Ish crept in without any great fuss. Most native English speakers would understand it immediately - when spoken. It is typically accompanied by appropriate ambivalence-illustrating body language that would in fact serve the purpose on its own. A spoken "Ish" is a kind of garnish to the physical expression rather than the other way round.


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## Dom Casmurro

Arrius said:


> -ish is a sort of diminutive like French -âtre or Spanish -ito. The Portuguese for greenish is verdeado, but maybe some words in -ish could be rendered by the suffix -zinho.


Arrius, if I may disagree with you, _-âtre_ is not a diminutive suffix. Its function is precisely the same as _-ish_ (bleuâtre = blueish), and I understand that this is a suffix that denotes vagueness, not smallness. The Spanish _-ito_ and the Portuguese _-inho_ certainly are diminutive suffixes, meaning that the things they are referred to are small in size (libr_ito_ = livr_inho_ = small book). 

Generally speaking, no Portuguese word bearing the suffix _-inho_ can be an accurate translation of any _-ish_ word, unless you say something like: "Ele já é bem crescid_inho_ para fazer esse tipo de coisa" = He is grownup_ish_  enough to do this kind of thing. But you must exercise extreme caution if you are tempted to translate _-inho_ words into _-ish_ ones. Even the example that I've just used doesn't seem to perform an adequate transmutation of _-inho_ into _-ish_.  

Another point is, the correct translation of _greenish_ in Portuguese is _esverdeado_. Note that instead of a suffix you have got a prefix: _es-_. This is due to the fact that this word is the past participle of the verb _esverdear _(= to turn green). Other words of this kind bear an _-a_ prefix - _azulado_ (= blueish), _apequenado_ (= smallish), etc. They too are past participle of verbs (_azular,_ _apequenar)_.

Cheers!


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## Dom Casmurro

olivinha said:


> (Mais ou menos o quê? Mais ou menos bom?)


OK, você ganhou. Mas só admitirei dizer isso em português. Aqui, quem não souber português não vai entender que eu capitulei.


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## avok

ayupshiplad said:


> What a good link! So basically, -ish as a suffix is universal English, whereas ish on it's on is British


 
Maybe it is something Scottish/Irish. The examples are from a Scottish blogger and a Northern Irish writer.


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## olivinha

Dom Casmurro said:


> OK, você ganhou. Mas só admitirei dizer isso em português. Aqui, quem não souber português não vai entender que eu capitulei.


 
Ok, fica só entre a gente e a torcida do Flamengo.
É sempre um prazer trocar idéias contigo, Dom.
Até a próxima.


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## Arrius

Thank you for your interesting response, *Dom Casmurro.* You are, of course, right about _esverdeado _which I misread, though I was not trying to suggest _-eado_ as an equivalent of -ish, but I would maintain that both verdâtre and greenish refer to diminution of the colour's intensity: a bit /a little green, having a tinge of green. Probably, there is some linguistics term for this idea but diminutive will have to do for me until I hear it.


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## ayupshiplad

avok said:


> Maybe it is something Scottish/Irish. The examples are from a Scottish blogger and a Northern Irish writer.


 
Good theory, but no, sorry! 

On a slight side note, when dealing with colours I tend to use -y instead of -ish. I wonder if there is any sort of rule? For example I was explaing my dance dress the other day and I said "It's a kind of bluey-grey". I'd say bluey, yellowy, pinky, etc but I don't think I'd ever say greeny. I'd always say greenish.


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## avok

ayupshiplad said:


> Good theory, but no, sorry!
> 
> On a slight side note, when dealing with colours I tend to use -y instead of -ish. I wonder if there is any sort of rule? For example I was explaing my dance dress the other day and I said "It's a kind of bluey-grey". I'd say bluey, yellowy, pinky, etc but I don't think I'd ever say greeny. I'd always say greenish.


 
Do you buy green dresses? I guess not, because if you would then you'd be using greeny too. I guess, colour-y is a girl-y way of describing colours and dresses are for girls


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## ayupshiplad

avok said:


> Do you buy green dresses? I guess not, because if you would then you'd be using greeny too. I guess, colour-y is a girl-y way of describing colours and dresses are for girls


 
Hmm perhaps it is a girly was of saying it actually! That had never occured to me before  

I hope this is actually relevant, but if not, feel free to delete it Vanda. A wee joke revolving ish that happened to me the other day:

"Why on earth does x have kosher margarine in her fridge?! She's not a jew!"
"Ahhh but evidently she's jew-ish " 

It just reminded me of this thread!


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## Arrius

Maybe it is something Scottish/Irish. The examples are from _a *Scottish *__*blogger*_ *avok*
Was he, by any chance called Ham-ish McTav-ish?


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