# Figuriamoci



## mieleus

Neanche gli artisti sanno cos'e` l'arte, figuriamoci gli avvocati!

in english?

Not even artists know what art is, ....  lawyers 

thanks
Simonetta


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## lsp

Even artists don't know what art is, much less lawyers!


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## Paulfromitaly

lsp said:


> Even artists don't know what art is, much less lawyers!



Would "Even artists don't know what art is, _never mind_ lawyers!" have a different meaning?


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## ElaineG

Paulfromitaly said:


> Would "Even artists don't know what art is, _never mind_ lawyers!" have a different meaning?


 
No, they mean about the same to me, and in fact, "never mind lawyers" was what came to my mind first, although, of course, LSP's solution is great too.


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## giaco1978

Hi everybody,

This expression can be use in many contests and

literally can be translated "let's imagine" or "let's figure out".

Hai vinto? Figuriamoci!!! (in the sense of "of course not")

Have you won? of course (?)(in ironic sense).

Or Another contest can be this.

Non mi ricordo qualche parola in italiano *figuriamoci* in inglese!

I don't remember some words in italian,*imagine (?*)it in english!

In the sensef course in english it happens more often!

Is there  an expression like this in english?

I hope to have been enough clear in explaining contests.

Thanks


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## Gwennhadu

Hi!
In your first example (_hai vinto_?...), _figuriamoci_ could translate as 
_get out_!
In the second (_non mi ricordo_...), usage is different in English, so you may want to say _I don't remember some words in Italian,_ _let alone_ _English!_
More suggestions are likely to pop up


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## virgilio

giaco1978,
             Re:" Non mi ricordo qualche parola in italiano *figuriamoci* in inglese!
 In English English you could say:
(1) still less in Englsh
(2) never mind in English (colloquial)
(3) not to mention English

Virgilio


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## lsp

In AE we'd more likely say, ...forget about/let alone/much less in English


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## Never Got a Dinner

lsp said:


> In AE we'd more likely say, ...forget about/let alone/much less in English



Yes, "let alone" is a very important addition to this list.  (In fact, it probably is the best fit for the original sentence about the lawyers.)


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## lsp

You quoted me, Never Got a Dinner, and I'm sure it's not that big a deal, but I wanted to point out that Gwennhadu did say "let alone" before me in #6. I was just agreeing and adding my 2¢.


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## kan3malato

Ciao.
May I use "let alone"  to stand for "figuriamoci" by itself ?

eg:

Marco" sono un fenomeno in matematica, 2+2 fa 4"
Laura" let alone!!!"(she says that in sarcastic way).

Thanks


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## Paulfromitaly

kan3malato said:


> Ciao.
> May I use "let alone"  to stand for "figuriamoci" by itself ?
> 
> eg:
> 
> Marco" sono un fenomeno in matematica, 2+2 fa 4"
> Laura" let alone!!!"(she says that in sarcastic way).
> 
> Thanks



Nope: you should say "no way!"


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## kan3malato

Paulfromitaly said:


> Nope: you should say "no way!"


Thanks.
Conoscevo "no way" mi domandavo solo se "let alone" poteva andare, ma sembra di no.


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## Tojo

Agree with Paul.  But in addition, if you want to be sarcastic you could say:
"Laura is as well, of course" or ".......,naturally". but you need to use the right tone of voice!
ciao  Tojo


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## _forumuser_

kan3malato said:


> Ciao.
> May I use "let alone"  to stand for "figuriamoci" by itself ?
> 
> eg:
> 
> Marco" sono un fenomeno in matematica, 2+2 fa 4"
> Laura" let alone!!!"(she says that in sarcastic way).
> 
> Thanks



Ciao kan3. Sei sicuro di questo esempio?

A: Sono un fenomeno in matematica, 2+2 fa 4
B: Figuriamoci!

Francamente io qui vedrei meglio "*hai capito!*" = *Big deal*!


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## kan3malato

_forumuser_ said:


> Ciao kan3. Sei sicuro di questo esempio?
> 
> A: Sono un fenomeno in matematica.
> B: Figuriamoci!
> 
> Francamente io qui vedrei meglio "*hai capito(che genio?)!*" = *Big deal*!


Se il tuo "Big deal" significa "capirai!!(che genio/che fenomeno)", mi piace molto, non lo conescevo grazie forumuser great!!.


ps
La tua risposta sembra calzare nel mio esempio,
mi sembra che tu ne abbia colto il senso alla perfezione.


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## CristoferoJ

I think <Figuriamoci!> can also be translated as "Go figure!"

Certainly "Imagine! = Go figure!"

Go figure! is an expression that has quite recently entered English through the USA.

How many expressions have come into the English language as translations of Italian in the USA... and is this one of them?

Cheers!

Chris


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## Grtngs

Hi Chris, I'm not sure go figure has the same meaning, every time I encountered that expression I always thought it meant something like "strange but true", "who would have thought that",  am I wrong?

G


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## Stiannu

I agree with Grtngs, I thought "_go figure_" corresponded to "_vai a capire!_".


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## CristoferoJ

I think "Go figure" can mean almost anything!  Depending on the intonation.

It can certainly mean "Who knows?"

My point was that it is not a natural English expression.  "Go figure" does not relate to any other expression in English I can think of. It really stands alone as a quirlky American English expression.   That is why I wondered whether it might have come into American English via Italian influence in the USA.

Go figure!


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## Sylentia

kan3malato said:


> Ciao.
> May I use "let alone" to stand for "figuriamoci" by itself ?
> 
> eg:
> 
> Marco" sono un fenomeno in matematica, 2+2 fa 4"
> Laura" let alone!!!"(she says that in sarcastic way).
> 
> Thanks


 
No, _let alone_ si userebbe soltanto nel mezzo di una frase (non mi viene la parola grammaticale).
Per esempio: Non sa bollire la pasta, figuriamoci fare il sugo.
_She can't boil pasta, let alone (tomato) sauce._

Think of it like _even_. She can't even do this, what makes you think she can do that!

PS: I just realised I broke out in an unusual display of 'englitalian'... Sorry!


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## annettaliese

mieleus said:


> Neanche gli artisti sanno cos'e` l'arte, figuriamoci gli avvocati!
> 
> in english?
> 
> Not even artists know what art is, .... lawyers
> 
> thanks
> Simonetta


 
Not even artists know what art is .. let alone lawyers!


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## CristoferoJ

The more I think about "figuriamoci" the more I am convinced that it can have dozens of translations in English.   And for that matter the AE "Go figure" can also mean just about anything that the user has in mind.

eg: Even artists don't know what art is... so _what chance_ lawyers!?


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## london calling

annettaliese said:


> Not even artists know what art is .. let alone lawyers!


That's exactly how I would have translated it in this context  and I agree with CJ; it can have dozens of translations!


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## armour65

Ciao ragazzi,

Would saying in this sentence "figuriamoci" be the same as saying "figurati"?


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## TimLA

armour65 said:


> Ciao ragazzi,
> 
> Would saying in this sentence "figuriamoci" be the same as saying "figurati"?


 
Ciao,

Based on the first few posts on this thread it looks like "figuriamoci" is used in an ironic way, whereas "figurati" can be used both normally and ironically.

My answer will bounce you back to the top and we'll get the experts' opinions.


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## L'equilibrista

Hi to all,  
come si potrebbe tradurre qui "figuriamoci"?_

__ Lui: ricordati – continuò poi a voce più bassa – che sto rischiando molto per tenerti qua sopra… ucciderti sarebbe solamente un sollievo.”
Lei: “Allora perché non lo fai? – gli domandò A. ostinata – Forse il vostro nero cuore di pirata non è poi così nero, capitan C.J.?”
C., esasperato, borbottò qualcosa che somigliò molto a “figuriamoci!” e si allontanò._ 

Ho pensato a "of course" ma, pur avendo letto i post precedenti, non sono convinto.
Thanks


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## armour65

L'equilibrista said:


> Hi to all,
> come si potrebbe tradurre qui "figuriamoci"?_ Lui: ricordati – continuò poi a voce più bassa – che sto rischiando molto per tenerti qua sopra… ucciderti sarebbe solamente un sollievo.”
> Lei: “Allora perché non lo fai? – gli domandò A. ostinata – Forse il vostro nero cuore di pirata non è poi così nero, capitan C.J.?”
> C., esasperato, borbottò qualcosa che somigliò molto a “figuriamoci!” e si allontanò._
> 
> Ho pensato a "of course" ma, pur avendo letto i post precedenti, non sono convinto.
> Thanks



"Yeah right"?  Would this be in the sense of "nemmeno per scherzo?"


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## Odysseus54

Maybe also " You wish ! "


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## L'equilibrista

The sense in Italian with other synonims would be "come no", o anche "ci mancherebbe altro" more than "credici" or "speraci".

L'uomo tiene in pugno la donna che è innamorata di lui. 
Lei, dicendo così, l'ha colto sul vivo, ma lui non ammetterebbe mai mai davanti a lei di avere tutto sommato un cuore tenero.


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## CristoferoJ

L'equilibrista said:


> Hi to all,
> come si potrebbe tradurre qui "figuriamoci"?
> 
> _Lui: ricordati – continuò poi a voce più bassa – che sto rischiando molto per tenerti qua sopra… ucciderti sarebbe solamente un sollievo.”_
> _Lei: “Allora perché non lo fai? – gli domandò A. ostinata – Forse il vostro nero cuore di pirata non è poi così nero, capitan C.J.?”_
> _C., esasperato, borbottò qualcosa che somigliò molto a “figuriamoci!” e si allontanò._
> 
> Ho pensato a "of course" ma, pur avendo letto i post precedenti, non sono convinto.
> Thanks


To my mind "Go Figure!" would be an excellent translation for "Figuriamoci" in this context. (Thus proving my point!) 

I would suggest that in American English the words "Go Figure!" can be given almost any value that the speaker - or the hearer - wishes to place on them... and its frequently not the same meaning! 

This is the instrinsically ambiguous nature of the statement. It an untypically self-effacing facet of American English, if I might make so bold as to add. Go figure!


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## Holymaloney

Hi there !

Browsing through this thread I came up with_* "as if!"*_ to indicate something that could happen but is unlikely to or something that you don't believe will ever happen. 

For example:

"why don't you buy a lottery ticket? You may win!"
"yeah, as if!"


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## L'equilibrista

Thank you very much indeed, for the useful contributions.


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## Marco Luxe

I may be mistaken, but I believe "go figure" entered American English through Yiddish. I remember comic Jackie Mason using the phrase, and much of his comic delivery was a translation of his comic routines in Yiddish. 

To me, the phrase is truncated from: you must "go [and] figure" it out by yourself, but don't bother because it won't make any sense at all.  That type of sentiment sounds like the irony built into many Yiddish expressions.

On line I found : "Go figure" comes from Yiddish "Gey vays" [Go know]. Leo Rosten, in "The Joys of Yinglish" (Penguin, 1989, ISBN 0-452-26534-6), says:
"In English, one says, 'Go "and" see [go and look, go and ask, go and tell]...' 
But using an imperative ["go"] without any link to a conjunction is pure Yiddish. 

However, Gianfranco Boggio-Togna writes: "The expressions an Italian is
likely to use to show bafflement correspond exactly to "go figure":
"va a capire"='go understand' or "va a sapere"='go know'. The "va
a" idiom is common in colloquial Italian."


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## Cosaco

I don't speak Italian, could you please help me to translate "figuriamoci quando "? as

1) Se non pagano quando hai ragione figuriamoci quando hai torto!
2) E' già bellissima così...figuriamoci quando sarà completa.
3)  Ho già delle grosse difficoltà ad esprimermi nelle mia propria lingua,  figuriamoci quando mi devo esprimere in una lingua che non è la mia.

Thanks!!


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## Blackman

_If they don't pay when you're right,* imagine when* you're wrong._


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## lsp

Not necessarily translated word for word, but this seems the way a native would have formed the sentences in my neck of the woods:

1) Se non pagano quando hai ragione figuriamoci quando hai torto!
If they don't pay when you're right, you can forget (about) it when you're wrong!

2) E' già bellissima così...figuriamoci quando sarà completa.
It's already beautiful, imagine when it's finished.

3)  Ho già delle grosse difficoltà ad esprimermi nelle mia propria lingua,  figuriamoci quando mi devo esprimere in una lingua che non è la mia.
It's hard enough for me to express myself in my own language, much less in another.


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## alicip

Ciao a tutti. Chiedo il vostro aiuto per tradurre la seguente:
Quei due sono dei cascamorti già da svegli, figuriamoci se stanno a sentirti sotto un incantesimo!  
Contesto: Quei due ragazzi sentono delle voci (tipo delle sirene). Una ragazza dice loro: "Non andate lì! E' una trappola!" Quindi l'altra ragazza dice la frase soprammenzionata.
Io ho provato così:
Those two are lovesick people  even when they are  awake, go figure if they  listen to you when they are under a spell! 

Grazie.


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## Holymaloney

Ciao alicip !
Intanto devo dire che (personalmente) in questo contesto non mi piace lovesick per tradurre cascamorto  ma al momento non mi viene un espressione più immediata per renderlo in inglese . Poi, go figure non va bene per tradurre figuramoci. _*Go figure *_vuol dire 'vai a capire (il perchè) o qualcosa di simile (vedi post # 34). Prendo in prestito quello che avevo suggerito a suo tempo Blackman e proverei con qualcosa di questo tipo:

*'...those two are soppy/schmaltzy even when they're (wide) awake you can imagine what they'll be like under a spell...'
'...those two are all gooey even when they're (wide) awake, as if they'll listen to you while they're under a spell...'

*Sorry, can't do better than that for now, let's see what the others say


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## Connie Eyeland

Ciao.
Sulla base di questa frase di Holymaloney:


> *'...those two are soppy/schmaltzy even when they're (wide) awake, you can imagine what they'll be like under a spell...'*


si potrebbe sostituire la parte in blu con una delle seguenti espressioni? 
_can you picture what they'll be like under a spell?
goodness knows how much worse it must be when they're under a spell!
....."..........           "         ......."......      ".......        "      ...they must get when they're under a spell!


_


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## alicip

Holymaloney said:


> Ciao alicip !
> Intanto devo dire che (personalmente) in questo contesto non mi piace lovesick per tradurre cascamorto  ma al momento non mi viene un espressione più immediata per renderlo in inglese . Poi, go figure non va bene per tradurre figuramoci. _*Go figure *_vuol dire 'vai a capire (il perchè) o qualcosa di simile (vedi post # 34). Prendo in prestito quello che avevo suggerito a suo tempo Blackman e proverei con qualcosa di questo tipo:
> 
> *'...those two are soppy/schmaltzy even when they're (wide) awake you can imagine what they'll be like under a spell...'
> '...those two are all gooey even when they're (wide) awake, as if they'll listen to you while they're under a spell...'**  (Ho scelto questa. )
> *Sorry, can't do better than that for now, let's see what the others say



Grazie Holy. Grazie a tutti.


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## Tchara

"_*Go figure *_vuol dire 'vai a capire (il perchè) o qualcosa di simile"
Literally, Holymaloney is correct. In actual (AE) use, it is always sarcastic and doesn't mean what it seems to say.  If I wanted someone to take some time to understand something, I would say, "Figure it out."  
"Go figure" or "Imagine (that)" is used in a stand alone response when someone states something that is an obvious truth.
There are a lot of calories in that piece of chocolate cake you're eating.
Go figure.


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## amatriciana

I reckon you _could_ use "go figure", as in

"Those two lovebirds are all over each other when they're awake, so whether they'll listen to you while they're under a spell, go figure!"


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## CristoferoJ

Marco Luxe said:


> I may be mistaken, but I believe "go figure" entered American English through Yiddish. I remember comic Jackie Mason using the phrase, and much of his comic delivery was a translation of his comic routines in Yiddish.
> 
> To me, the phrase is truncated from: you must "go [and] figure" it out by yourself, but don't bother because it won't make any sense at all.  That type of sentiment sounds like the irony built into many Yiddish expressions.
> 
> On line I found : "Go figure" comes from Yiddish "Gey vays" [Go know]. Leo Rosten, in "The Joys of Yinglish" (Penguin, 1989, ISBN 0-452-26534-6), says:
> "In English, one says, 'Go "and" see [go and look, go and ask, go and tell]...'
> But using an imperative ["go"] without any link to a conjunction is pure Yiddish.
> 
> However, Gianfranco Boggio-Togna writes: "The expressions an Italian is
> likely to use to show bafflement correspond exactly to "go figure":
> "va a capire"='go understand' or "va a sapere"='go know'. The "va
> a" idiom is common in colloquial Italian."



I am sure these learned references have great value in this context.   Now I am set to thinking that Figuriamoci entered Italian via Yiddish... and UK English, via US English from either, or both Italian and Yiddish.  Imagine!


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