# Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?



## manny55

Hello,
I was hoping that someone can translate this latin sentence.  Thank you.

Ouve usqvem tandem catilina patientia nostra

-thanks Manny


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## Flaminius

Hello Manny,

I wonder if the sentence you wanted to quote is actually the following:
Quo usque tandem abutere, Catilina, patientia nostra?

This is the first sentence of Cicero's In Catilinam I;
Until how long do you, Catilina, keep abusing your patience?


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## manny55

Thank you very much.  I believe it might be.  One of my friends was sent a letter by her lover.  It seems he is very very arrogant.  Thanks once again


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## cajzl

... *our* patience?


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## Outsider

cajzl said:


> ... *our* patience?


Right.

How long will you, Catilina, keep trying our patience?

P.S. Or perhaps "How much longer, Catilina, will you try our patience?"


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## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> Right.
> 
> How long will you, Catilina, keep trying our patience?
> 
> P.S. Or perhaps "How much longer, Catilina, will you try our patience?"


 
For the English translation, I'd suggest "How long, o Catiline, will you abuse our patience?" However, there's not _one_ correct translation in English, unlike in German. 

And there's also another possibility in Latin where you write "quo" and "usque" as a compound: _quousque_

This thread makes me think about something: Which verb form is "abutere" here? If it is really "how long *will you abuse*," it should be "abuteris." If it is the infinitive (what I think it should be), shouldn't we use "abuti" then? The form "abutere" is definitely the imperative of "abuti" (abutor), because it is a _deponens_.


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## Outsider

Whodunit said:


> For the English translation, I'd suggest "How long, o Catiline, will you abuse our patience?"


Is it right to use the word "abuse" in this context?


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## modus.irrealis

Whodunit said:


> Which verb form is "abutere" here? If it is really "how long *will you abuse*," it should be "abuteris."



What I learned is that -re and -ris are alternate endings for the 2nd person singular passive in all the indicative and subjective tenses, like abuteris or abutere, abutebaris or abutebare, and so on.


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## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> Is it right to use the word "abuse" in this context?


 
It might not be the best word in this context, but it is not too uncommon either. 



modus.irrealis said:


> What I learned is that -re and -ris are alternate endings for the 2nd person singular passive in all the indicative and subjective tenses, like abuteris or abutere, abutebaris or abutebare, and so on.


 
Thanks. I thought it had to do with something like that, but as I didn't learn that, I wasn't sure about it.


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## sinclair001

Para semblanza de Catilina
http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucio_Sergio_Catilina
La traducción a español:
¿Hasta cuando Catilina, abusarás de nuestra paciencia?
Me gustó una interpretación de la frase: 
"Te la estás buscando y te la vas a encontrar"
Incluso en Colombia hay una variante:
"No hay que buscarle 5 patas al gato"


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