# Should Plastic Surgery be allowed in Beauty Contests?



## Bonjules

Hola,
Should this become a contest between the best surgeons?
Or should 'natural beauty' prevail.
How about fairness: Shouldn't a poor girl whose parents have struggled just to survive have the same chance at the highest honor as someone who was born wealthy?
But if you were to allow it, how about the surgeon? I'd be offended if I were the one who made it all possible and my name wasn't even mentioned. Or would secrecy in this regard maybe be part of the (hippocratic) oath he swore?


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## cuchuflete

First and foremost, who cares?
Beauty contests, so-called, are entertainment commerce.

Define "natural beauty" please.

How about fairness?  Poor women do not generally participate at all.  Since when is fairness a concern of entertainment commerce?  

Your questions assume that a beauty contest is something other than a for-profit activity.  It is not.


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## Lavinia.dNP

I want to agree with both : Bonjules and Cuchuflete.

On one side, I think that plastic surgery shouldn't be allowed if we want to give the same opportunity to everybody, otherwise it would be a contest among plastic surgeons.
On the other side, it is true that beauty contests are just a matter of entertainment and commerce, and therefore, what matters is the profit they can make, not the fairness of the contest, which, I'd like to add, is the most stupid thing I've ever seen.
What should those "beauty queens " be proud of? their nice butt?
They didn't do anything to deserve a reward, therefore I can't see why should they be awarded one.


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## cuchuflete

> What should those "beauty queens " be proud of? their nice butt?
> They didn't do anything to deserve a reward, therefore I can't see why should they be awarded one. http://forum.wordreference.com/editpost.php?do=editpost&p=1229010



Perfect idea!  Award the poor girl who competes on her natural attributes a free trip to the plastic surgeon, where she will be the proud recipient of a nice butt.

I wonder about the people who watch these so-called contests.  How many of them park themselves on soft upholstered furniture, and consuming junk food while they watch?


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## Fernando

Lavinia.dNP said:
			
		

> What should those "beauty queens " be proud of? their nice butt?
> They didn't do anything to deserve a reward, therefore I can't see why should they be awarded one.



Why Maradona or Zidane should be more proud of their ability to carry a ball?
Or Carl Lewis of their natural strength? 

The use they attach to their heads is nothing. 

Edit: Sorry, Zidane found one use. 

Turning to the point. Doping in cyclism = Surgery in beauty contest.

We have Miss Playboy if you want a "free" contest.

I am not exactly a fan of beauty contest but, well, at least they are celebrating beauty. I assume the contestants seem so dumb to women as Mr Universe contestants (or sport players) seem to me.


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## Sallyb36

NO, NO and NO, it's the same as using steroids in sport!


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## Bonjules

RE: 'natural beauty', Cuchu,

 While it is true that we have devised many ways to enhance our appearance, it probably wouldn't be too difficult (technically, in terms of policing it)to draw the line at surgical intervention.


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## Sallyb36

Bonjules, it is.  I think that beauty contests shouldn't be allowed with or without surgery!


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## maxiogee

Plastic surgeons should be judged alongside other all artists competing for prizes for modern scuplture.


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## Keikikoka

Makeup is already used as a temporary plastic surgery. It covers up blemishes and changes the shape of eyes, nose, cheeks, and lips. Pushup bras can change the shape of the breasts. Tape can be used to lift a sagging bottom. If you are going to call for the elimination of plastic surgery, you might as well call for the elimation of makeup and bras.


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## Sallyb36

no, make up and bras, although classed as false advertising, are not the same as surgery!


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## Dr. Quizá

Yep, no surgery and no make up. Furthermore, no clothes at all! Yummie!


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## Keikikoka

Sallyb36 said:
			
		

> no, make up and bras, although classed as false advertising, are not the same as surgery!


 
Other than makeup and bras being a reversable process, what is the differance?


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## Fernando

1) It is a reversable process.

2) It is easily detected. (1)

3) It is not a major change. (2)


(1) I am ready to prove any the contestants have wonderbra. I mean in person.

(2) Well, excluding wonderbra.


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## Edguy

Fernando said:
			
		

> Why Maradona or Zidane should be more proud of their ability to carry a ball?
> Or Carl Lewis of their natural strength?


 
Sorry, but are you comparing a sportsmen with these girls???
They did nothing to be there, except... well perhaps they did some things...

That comparison has no sense...

By the way, my father used to say that in order to decide if a woman is pretty you have to look at her as soon as she gets up, before she brushes her teeth..


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## Vanda

> By the way, my father used to say that in order to decide if a woman is pretty you have to look at her as soon as she gets up, before she brushes her teeth..


 
lol. I have a friend that used to say he'd only marry a woman if he could see her as soon as she got up, too. 
Back on the plastic surgery I'm totally against it in a beauty contest, otherwise we had to change the name of the contest for Pastic Surgery Contest. 
My generation grew up watching these contests on TV. I could name all participants, knew details about them  - well, you have to excuse me I was a teenager then and had the same fascination many teens have nowadays with top models. But then, one day I discovered that was much more than beauty  behind the contests: political interests and so on then I got completely disillusioned.


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## grego47

Bonjules said:
			
		

> Hola,
> Should this become a contest between the best surgeons?
> Or should 'natural beauty' prevail.
> How about fairness: Shouldn't a poor girl whose parents have struggled just to survive have the same chance at the highest honor as someone who was born wealthy?
> But if you were to allow it, how about the surgeon? I'd be offended if I were the one who made it all possible and my name wasn't even mentioned. Or would secrecy in this regard maybe be part of the (hippocratic) oath he swore?


If one is born to pursue this path to gain recognition, she must make herself as attractive as possible. Why outlaw cosmetic surgery?


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## hohodicestu

Hi

I think plastic surgery should NOT be allowed in beauty contests because it ruins the natural beauty.  The original idea or purpose of these kind of contests was to celebrate the natural beauty of the women.


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## grego47

hohodicestu - great point and an entitled opinion


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## maxiogee

hohodicestu said:
			
		

> The original idea or purpose of these kind of contests was to celebrate the natural beauty of the women.



Yeah, there were just too many beautiful women out there who were unappreciated, going about with low self-esteem while plain, and even (dare I say it) downright ugly women were being celebrated by the media and fêted by men!


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## Fernando

Edguy said:
			
		

> Sorry, but are you comparing a sportsmen with these girls???
> 
> Outrageous! Of course not!
> 
> For most uses, I would prefer the girls.
> 
> And certainly, playing chess (or any other intellectual activity) would be one.
> 
> They are supplying far more beauty than them for many less money.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edguy said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They did nothing to be there, except... well perhaps they did some things...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, both sell their bodies in exchange of money, anyway.
Click to expand...


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## GenJen54

Might I remind people of the subject of this thread: 



> How about fairness: Shouldn't a poor girl whose parents have struggled just to survive have the same chance at the highest honor as someone who was born wealthy?
> But if you were to allow it, how about the surgeon? I'd be offended if I were the one who made it all possible and my name wasn't even mentioned. Or would secrecy in this regard maybe be part of the (hippocratic) oath he swore?


 
If you want to compare cheating (drugs, etc.) in sports to plastic surgery in beauty contests, that is fine.   Otherwise, please comment only about the fairness of plastic surgery in beauty pageants and whether it should be allowed.


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## Sallyb36

Keikikoka said:
			
		

> Other than makeup and bras being a reversable process, what is the differance?



Actually having surgery, undergoing a traumatic body experience with all the possibilities of things that can go wrong is very different to wearing make up and push-up bras.  I don't really agree with either ( I personally do not wear much make up, only lipstick)  I'm beautiful enough without any enhancement!!


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## Bonjules

Hola,
Your appearance/'beauty' - mostly defined by Western standards as it seems -is then largely a function of the cards Nature dealt you. Whether winning a contest based upon that is an 'achievement' as some say, is the question.
It may be of a little comfort for those who came out short in the 'Genetic Lottery' though, that surgical intervention had something to do with the 'success'.
So how about the surgeon? Shouldn't he/she be duly recognized? Didn't he/she achieve somthing remarkable?
The awards ceremony, I think, should go something like this:
"The winner is......Miss Carabonita from...Soandso!" (Applause)
"And her surgeon was...Dr. Cuchillo!" (more applause). The Dr. comes out and smiles.
He is not all that pretty, but very rich. He is really going to make it now.
Saludos


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## Cereth

Well...i don´think that wonderbras and make up can be compared to surgery... of course they make us look better, i don´t see what´s the big deal with...
 particularly i don´t care if in a beauty padgeon they award women with or without plastic surgeries...besides their beauty concept it is almost always the same, long legs, straight and long hair, big eyes, big breast, nice butt, big lips, tiny waist, no belly...so if there is a woman so dumb for willing to fit to that concept at a 100% well i think is her right to go to a surgeon and trying to achieve the silly crown...I think such life is sad... to base yourself only in your looks...now that i think about it maybe that will be their only chance to feel "happiness" that is their *true dream* to be admired and desired...and I kind of respect that... if their only goal in their lives is to be beautiful so be it! go to a surgeon and try to marry him because his miracle won´t last for long


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## Bonjules

Well,
It appears I was somewhat naive when I started this Thread, although
it was supposed to be a little tongue-in-cheek....
 I'm warming up to the subject though.
The only thing is ..are we talking nips, tucks and little 'corrections' here and there?
 Now my friends are telling me that not only butts  and breasts are being
'enhanced', no, some countries appear to specialize in taking out certain ribs in order to change the body contour.
 'Cosmetic surgery'? 
It sounds we got major bodily reconstruction going on here.
 More and more things are not what they seem....


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## dahut

No, I don't think plastic surgery/cosmetic surgery shoul be allowed in Beauty Contests.
It is supposed to be about their natural beauty. Altough, they could have a contest based on beauty reached through surgery. But _that_ will be another contest.

And, please, there is not just Women Beauty Contests, you have Men Beauty Contests as well.

I think make-up, push-up bras, working out and so should be part of it, undoubtely. The thing is: those people are really beautiful BUT they can enhance their beauty. Why not? It's a contest!

Now... plastic/cosmetic surgery is a shortcut to achieve something they should work for it. And if the nose doesn't fit the standars, well, then she/he loses. It's part of their world. Deal with it!


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## foxfirebrand

I think plastic surgery should be allowed in contests among women who have also undergone similar enhancement-- it would be a bad idea to combine this kind of pageant with the traditional kind, not "wrong" or "unfair" in the ethical sense, but rather ugly, a contest between unequal groups.  Who but maladjusted oddballs would tune in to watch?

I think the entertainment market would stir up enough commercial sponsors for such events, and if public interest sustained them, why not tolerate their presence among the other infotainment fare that clutters the nightly menu?

It would be pointless not to include the surgeons in the offstage "background" hype that accompanies these staged happenings-- and not a bad idea to present the artist and his model/medium as a sort of team. Whether this includes a sharing of the award, or additional awards for the surgeon(s) who worked on the winner-- depends on whatever custom arises spontaneously among participants, organizers, sponsors, ticket-buying event attendees, TV viewers and anyone else who conceives an interest in all this nonsense.

I'd give such surgically-enhanced pageants a look-see if they included a rollerskating event, whether in a contest involving speed or balletique grace, or a physical bout along the lines of roller derby or iceless hockey. Hell, there's nothing "unfair" about blade skates as long as everyone has a pair-- why not add to the swimsuit, talent, world-affairs interview and ballgown events a fully-padded and helmeted arena-football match staged in a hockey rink, on iceskates? Skates with rocket boosters and pyrotechnic "roostertail" spark-trails color-coded to the flag of the contestant's country of origin?  That flashy stuff in the context of a big-titted football game might really snowball in popularity and importance.  

By rockets, I don't mean the kind with a payload that explodes violently upon impact-- as beauty-contests go, even the staunchest free-market zealot would have to admit that would constitute an unfair advantage.

Maybe if the bouts were held on offshore-island venues, or Dubai, on satellite pay-per-view format, 
.


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## Bonjules

Hey Foxfire,
 You've got some, like, awsome ideas here... dig it already..... far out, man. Thought about sharing some of these with Ted Turner in a PM?  He' d probably give you a cut! These are real winners, totally.
Saludos


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## mytwolangs

When seeing a beauty contest, one knows there is a lot of results of plastic surgery. 

Should it be allowed? Perhaps. Some contests should be about natural beauty. Of course some woman who has the money to go plastic will look better. But it is fake. Beauty contest? How about "best fake" contest?


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## skatoulitsa

Who cares really...

And, ok, maybe you consider makeup subtle enough to not be "interfering" with "natural beauty", but there are tons of other stuff. What about teeth whitening (or straightening with braces), hair waxing, hair coloring, colored contact lenses?

What is "natural beauty" really?


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## dahut

skatoulitsa said:
			
		

> Who cares really...
> 
> And, ok, maybe you consider makeup subtle enough to not be "interfering" with "natural beauty", but there are tons of other stuff. What about teeth whitening (or straightening with braces), hair waxing, hair coloring, colored contact lenses?
> 
> What is "natural beauty" really?


The question isn't whether we care or not.
It's part of the world-wide reality. Moreover, beauty, regardless what we understand for it, it's part of every single culture. (You are Greek, you should know better )

Natural beauty, my guess, is all the ribs inside the body, scars made by you playing with your friends when you were a child (or not that child for the matter), lean muscles instead of fast-food tummies and so on.

Teeth whitening, hair waxing, hair colouring are part of the enhancement. Contat lenses are... in fashion, I guess, they don't change the shape of the eye or its spark (or the lack of it)


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## Diva

Who cares about these ready-to-wear women in beauty contests??? Real beauties don't have to show off!


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## maxiogee

Diva said:
			
		

> Who cares about these ready-to-wear women in beauty contests??? Real beauties don't have to show off!


Nor do they need to be told of it.


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## Poetic Device

Weren't these types of pageants created in order to award scholarships to the young woman who won them?  I thought that was the purpose of them.  If that is the case--well, no matter what the case is--I think that if it really mattered then any female of whom had the chance (regardless of financial and social stature) should be allowed to participate.  Case in point:  even the no-talent schmucks get to go on American Idol.  I know that is a horrible comparison.  Please forgive me. 
 
 
(LOOK!!!  No spelling errors!!!!)


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