# Reporting system



## Gemmenita

Hi dear Mike,

I have a request for your consideration: would it be possible please to strengthen the _Reporting system_ specially the_ window_ opened when clicking on the Report button?

Most of the time, the Report button is not used only for reporting emergency cases or anomalies in threads but is used also for general cases such as
a help, a problem, a question and any other cases as a communicatif way with dear Moderators.

Therefore by a strong reporting system:

-  We could have a copy of what we have sent.

-  We would be sure that our message has been sent successfully. (the message of ‘Thank you for reporting this message’ which appears at the top of the page right after clicking on Report button is not reliable! I have experienced it: this message is always shown automatically even if the message is not received by Moderators!)

-  The window for typing will not be so much fragile _like the actual one_ which disappears with any wrong click along with the sentences contained within!!!


I will be really grateful if you make possible any suitable way for resolving all the problems above that _I have always _while sending a message via Report button.


Many thanks in advance.


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## swift

Hi.

I don’t need to keep a record of the reports I send, so I don't wan’t to save copies of those messages. I suppose such a record would be impractical and cumbersome for the database.

I don’t follow up with the mods on the reports I have sent. If one of them thinks I should be informed about something having to do with a particular report, then I’ll willingly read what they have to say, especially if it’s feedback on how I could send more useful reports.

Whenever I have a question, I contact a moderator via PM. Reports are not supposed to be used that way—it’s not a messaging system.

I wouldn’t say the current report system is ‘fragile’. As it is, it works very efficiently. Sometimes my report won’t prompt a visible action as, e.g., a deleted post, a merger or a moderator note. But I’m positive it has been taken care of, even though I can’t actually see the results in the thread I reported as problematic.

Also, keep in mind that not all moderation actions will be undertaken as soon as the report is submitted. Moderators are busy people living in different parts of the globe and some reports require some debate. Since not all mods happen to be online at the same time, such discussions might take a bit before any action is taken.


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## osa_menor

Hello!





swift said:


> I wouldn’t say the current report system is ‘fragile’. As it is, it works very efficiently.


It depends on the system. On the PC, I don't encounter problems, but on the mobile sometimes the little window disappears without warning before I finished the message.


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## swift

I think Gemmenita should be more specific about the problems she has encountered.  In my experience, the message will disappear if I accidentally close or refresh the current tab or window.

But there seems to be a lot of things going on in this thread, so let’s wait for Gemmenita’s comments.


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## JamesM

swift said:


> Whenever I have a question, I contact a moderator via PM. Reports are not supposed to be used that way—it’s not a messaging system.





The reporting system is basically a one-way system to allow users to raise a warning flag or an objection about a particular post.  If you want to have a two-way dialogue, please open a private conversation with a moderator or group of moderators.

As for the window losing content, that's another matter.  It sounds like a technical glitch.


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## jann

hello Gemmenita, 


Gemmenita said:


> (the message of ‘Thank you for reporting this message’ which appears at the top of the page right after clicking on Report button is not reliable! I have experienced it: this message is always shown automatically even if the message is not received by Moderators!)


I'm sorry you've had trouble with the Report feature. Unfortunately, it's virtually impossible to fix a technical problem that isn't reproducible.  But if you could list a series of steps/instructions that cause this problem every single time, then Mike would have a chance of being able to discover and address the issue.

In the meantime, speaking from a moderator perspective: I don't think any of my colleagues would object to receiving the (_occasional_) duplicate report.  If something makes you suspect that a technical problem prevented your report from being submitted, you can always just report the same post a second time.  But please do not assume that the absence of immediate, visible moderator intervention means your report was not received.  And as others have said, you cannot expect the moderators to follow up with you personally about every single report you file.


JamesM said:


> The reporting system is basically a one-way system to allow users to raise a warning flag or an objection about a particular post.  If you want to have a two-way dialogue, please open a private conversation with a moderator or group of moderators.


While that may be true for some parts of WordReference, I think there is actually some forum-to-forum variation in how the moderators expect the Report feature to be used.    For example, on the French forums, our stickies encourage users to contact us via the Report feature (e.g., see here).  Of course, we also appreciate "normal" reports about matters that may require our attention! 

Jann
(French forums moderator)


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## JamesM

jann said:


> While that may be true for some parts of WordReference, I think there is actually some forum-to-forum variation in how the moderators expect the Report feature to be used.  For example, on the French forums, our stickies encourage users to contact us via the Report feature (e.g., see here).



That's interesting and good to know.  In English Only we treat reports as incoming "flags" to check out a particular post or thread.  We rarely respond directly to the reporter unless they specifically ask for a response.  As a rule, we don't reply to the reporter with the details of the action taken, if any.


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## Gemmenita

Thank you all...

First I would like to clarify one thing and that's _the reason_ for which I send my general problems via Report button and not via PM to one Moderator or a group of  Moderators (as you all do and recommend to me too!). The reason is *Mike*'s reply in this thread: Contact Moderators' button for general cases ... which is also confirmed here by the rule presented by dear Jann.

And then, I would like also to say that the conversation between Jann and James here, made me read the rules of some other forums such as English only, Spanish only and Spanish-French! *WOW, wonderful!* Now, I see the reason that some members (like swift) _are *extremely satisfied*_ *with the Reporting system* of Forum and some others (like me) are* not at all satifsfied *with it : *the rule of contacting Moderators is not the same in all forums!!!*

Therefore:



swift said:


> Whenever I have a question, I contact a moderator via PM. Reports are not supposed to be used that way—it’s not a messaging system.





JamesM said:


> If you want to have a two-way dialogue, please open a private conversation with a moderator or group of moderators.



Yes, swift and James. You are right because the rule of your forums allows you to send PM to dear Mods. Whereas the Report button in the Forum 'Français seulement' (French only) is _multifunctional!_

swift, if I were in your shoes, and the rules of the Forum of 'French only' allowed me to send messages about my  problems and questions via PM and not via
that button, not only I would support strongly the Reporting system like you but also would not open this Thread!

Here is what is written in the rules of 'Français seulement/French only':


> *Pour contacter les modérateurs, affichez le fil ou le message approprié, cliquez sur « Signaler » et saisissez votre commentaire, votre question, votre problème ou votre plainte dans le champ qui apparaîtra.(...)
> 
> Mon commentaire ne se rapporte à aucun fil en particulier.*
> Si vous voulez contacter spécifiquement les modérateurs du forum Français Seulement, cliquez sur le lien « Signaler » de ce post-ci et envoyez-nous votre message.




But I love THIS rule in 'English only' and in other forums like English only:


> *Contacting a moderator
> If you have questions *that are not answered by this information, please send a private message to an English Only moderator. You will see us listed at the top of this page
> 
> *If you see a problematic post* (no context, not English, advertising, offensive) that you feel should be brought to the moderators' attention, the easiest way to do this is to click on Report in the lower left corner of the post.



I think this rule is logically correct!  Because 'Report button' ( as the meaning of the verb 'Report/Signaler' shows) should be *only for reporting* and not other cases and these other cases should be done via PM...


************
​
Now following my comments, I would like to say that since at first I was thinking that the 'Report button' is multifunctional in *all* the Forums of WR as well as my 3 problems mentioned in #1, I adressed this Thread only to *dear* *Mike* but now I see that this has not been so!


Therefore I replace my first post by this one:


*- Hi dear rule makers of the Forum 'Français seulement/French only',*

Would it be possible for you to change please the rule of this forum regarding the 'Report button' and the ways of contacting Moderators and make it like the rule of other forums (such as 'English only')?
What's wrong with this very good rule in 'English only' and other Forums, in your opinion???

Many thanks in advance.


*- Hi dear* *Mike*,

Would you please strengthen the window of the Report button (as you did for the window of *Upload a File*)? This actual window is very fragile and as _osa_ has said too (hola osa) disappears in cell phone and also in PC ( for me) with any accidental click!
*Added: *For example, a window with 'minimize, maximize, close' buttons would be suitable. So that, in case of any accidental click outside this window, it would get minimized and not disappeared!

Many thanks in advance


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## wildan1

The problem with sending a private conversation to one moderator is that as volunteers in our moderator role, each member of our mod team is free to moderate as frequently (or infrequently) as is needed on a given day or period, based on the rest of our lives' priorities at the time.

Therefore, if your request or feedback is time-sensitive, it is always better to click on Report rather than sending a message to one individual, who might be on vacation for some days or weeks and not checking messages. That makes your message visible to all members of the moderator team, and allows for more timely follow-up.


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## Gemmenita

Thank you very much wildan for your reply.



wildan1 said:


> The problem with sending a private conversation to *one* moderator is that (...)



Oh, I understand that this rule in French Forum is for the comfort of members and for that they get the reply as soon as possible. Thank you! But in the other hand
it is not practical and causes problems. So we can manage the same way the members of other Forums do when contacting their Mods _via PM._

To solve the problem of a time-sensitive request or feedback when a Moderator is in vacation there is a very good way which James said and made me happy because I had thought of it some time ago but I couldn't do it because the rule of my Forum (French only) didn't allow:


JamesM said:


> If you want to have a two-way dialogue, please open a private conversation with a moderator or *group of moderators*.



What about if we send our question or problem via Private Message to *all* Moderators of the French Forum as participants?

-At the side of Moderators, the result would be the same as when we send our question or problem via Report button and the message would be visible to all the Moderators at the same time and the first Moderator who sees the message and is free to answer, would reply.

-At the side of members : A member who contacts Moderators upon an important case which requires a long message that the Report window can't bear(!),
1) will have a copy of what he has sent, 2) will be sure that Mods have received his message and can wait even for days to get the reply and futhermore, 3) won't have any problem with the disappearance of that fragile black window which flies with the long message inside it and which makes the member to type again that long message!!! (une vraie corvée !)

I mean if you do a small modification in that rule, the members contacting dear Mods of French Forum would have the same advantages and comfort as the members using other forums who contact their Moderators _happily _via PM!

I would be very grateful if the rule of 'Contacting Moderators'  in French Forum gets updated and in concert with other forums.

Thanks a lot!


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## wildan1

I am not sure you have correctly understood the encouragement for you to send a private conversation to the EO mods as a group, Gemminita. That might be about a specific forum-wide issue, or, as Jann stated "to initiate a two-way conversation", but by and large, I don't believe they would encourage members to do this for routine requests or questions. Most of the Reports I see are about duplicate discussions, suggestions to merge discussions, or requesting a review of another member's input--and as was stated above, very rarely do we write back to the person making the report--we just get on with working on the issue raised.

It generally would not be very practical for a member to send a message to all moderators of a given forum concerning any issue or question. That would quickly fill up our inboxes (at least in the busy forums, where there are 15-20 or more such Reports each day), and with multiple moderators receiving the same message, we would then have to coordinate who was handling a given message or risk tripping all over each other to reply. 

As it stands now, your Report message is viewed by all moderators available to read it, and we either proceed to reply (signaling to others with a software function of the forum that it is being handled), or we use the report for a discussion among us before deciding about the issue.

wildan1


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## Gemmenita

wildan1 said:


> I am not sure you have correctly understood the encouragement for you to send a private conversation to the EO mods as a group, Gemminita. That might be about* a specific forum-wide issue*, or, as *Jann stated "to initiate a two-way conversation"*, but by and large, I don't believe they would encourage members to do this for routine requests or questions. Most of the Reports I see are about duplicate discussions, suggestions to merge discussions, or requesting a review ofanoth


Wildan, I have very well understood but, by what you have written, I am not sure that you have understood well what I meant: You are always recommending Report button while I am talking about PM and its benefits and the problems caused by Report button in cases where a PM is needed.

However I clarify one more time:

What I have said in my previous post was  exactly about *a specific forum-wide issue *(and not anomalies) which is sent *via PM* in other Forums (and only not in French Forum).

Have you read carefully my problems caused by sending a message via Report button when *Mon commentaire ne se rapporte à aucun fil en particulier *(as mentioned in French Forum rules) ? Since you have not said your idea about them!

James was talking about the PM sent to Mods in case of questions or any other cases not related to a special Thread as mentioned in the rules of his Forum.
*And why not do the same in French only Forum?*
But where did Jann state that we should use a PM "to initiate a two-way conversation"? If she said so, I would be very happy and would have no problem, on the contrary she said that: "there is actually some forum-to-forum variation in how the moderators expect the Report feature to be used."

Of course for initiating a two-way conversation, private messaging would be the best way (which is missing in the list of rules of French only !!! ) and I think *must be the only way to contact Moderators *as mentioned in the page of 'General rules' of Forum for contacting Mods here:


> _How do I contact a moderator?_
> At the bottom of each forum is a list of members who moderate that forum. Their names are also listed on the Forum Staff page, accessible at the bottom of the forum’s main page. To contact a moderator, click on his/her username or avatar to send a private message.



While in 'General rules' members are invited to contact Mods _via Private Message_, in French Forum, they are asked to contact only and only _via Report button_!!!
This is *paradoxical, *whereas the rule of contacting Mods in all other Forums conforms to the general rules of the Forum.

Therefore, I think what is wrong and problem making with this rule in French Forum is that in this rule the two different ways of 'Reporting' and 'Contacting'
are mixed up!!! Whereas in all other forums they are separate.


> *Pour contacter les modérateurs, affichez le fil ou le message approprié, cliquez sur « Signaler » et saisissez votre commentaire, votre question, votre problème ou votre plainte dans le champ qui apparaîtra.(...)
> 
> Mon commentaire ne se rapporte à aucun fil en particulier.*
> Si vous voulez contacter spécifiquement les modérateurs du forum Français Seulement, cliquez sur le lien « Signaler » de ce post-ci et envoyez-nous votre message.



I have no problem with the rule for reporting 'duplicate discussions,...' _*via Report button *_ and furthermore I believe that since this button is chosen only for Reporting little cases (as the meaning of the word 'Reports' confirms) it is very natural not to have an advanced Reporting system because: for a short reported case (anomalies) which is _of one or two lines_, there is no need to have a complicated and advanced system.
But if we have to send other cases too as in 'French Only' via Report button (as mentioned in your rules), this Reporting system should *get advanced*. Isn't it?



wildan1 said:


> It generally would not be very practical for a member to send a message to all moderators of a given forum concerning any issue or question.



Of course not when a member should report small and less important cases which could be sent via Report button and it goes without saying that for reporting small anomalies it would be abnormal and problem making for Mods to receive all the time a PM when only the Report button should be used!
But for sending long messages about Forum-wide issues, I swear that - comparing with the actual way of _contacting Mods in French only -_ sending a message to _all _moderators would be 1000 times easier and more practical for a member than sending via the Report button. I hope you read again the problems I mentioneed in my previous post!

*Well... after all, I have not received yet the answer to my question in #8 :
Whereas there is such a good rule in all other forums (in below) for Contacting Moderators and both members and Moderators of those Forums are contacting happily and satisfactorily via PM, why is this rule avoided in French Forum? 
Why not replace that trouble making rule in French Only by a convenient one as follows?
*


> *Contacting a moderator
> If you have questions *that are not answered by this information, please send a private message to an English Only moderator. You will see us listed at the top of this page
> 
> *If you see a problematic post* (no context, not English, advertising, offensive) that you feel should be brought to the moderators' attention, the easiest way to do this is to click on Report in the lower left corner of the post.
> 
> _source: 'English Only' rules and Guidelines_



So that, if we send a private message in case of a question, a comment or any issue not related to a special Thread:
1) we will have a copy of what we have sent,
2) we will be sure that Mods have received our message and then we could wait even for days to get the reply,
3) we won't have any problem with the disappearance of that fragile black window which may disappear with the long message inside it and
which makes the member to type again that long message!!! (une vraie corvée !)


Thank you very much to those of dear staff who have any idea about my questions and about solving the three problems related to my questions...


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## Gemmenita

Hi again dear Moderators of French Forum,

Just I would like to explain (or rather clarify) one little thing:

Personally, I consider the rules of each forum _respectable_ and organised maybe regarding the convenience of the working conditions of their Mods and
as a matter of fact I don't really have the intention of interfering in the rules of French forum (although we are allowed to _discuss rules_ _in C&S_ regarding
the General Rules of the Forum: rule15). So the reason for which I have thought of changing that rule in French Forum - specially in 'Français seulement/French only', since I have never had any experience of sending message _with Report button_ to the fr-en forums when a PM is needed - is that I have found no other way to solve
my 3 problems,  therefore _changing that rule_ seemed to me the only suitable way for solving those problems.

I would be obliged if you find a better way to solve those 3 problems and it goes without saying that in case that those issues get resolved, there will be no need to modify that rule if you are not interested in.

Thank you very much.


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## Nanon

I must confess that I have been asking the _Français seulement_ moderators questions via PM, and receiving answers to those questions, without knowing that I was infringing a rule. Just because asking made sense. _Ignorantia legis neminem excusat! _


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## Maître Capello

Nanon said:


> I must confess that I have been asking the _Français seulement_ moderators questions via PM, and receiving answers to those questions, without knowing that I was infringing a rule.


Don't worry! You have not been infringing any rules by doing so!  For general inquiries about the French forums, the preferred method is indeed the Report feature as suggested above by my fellow mods. When a question requires the attention of all/most moderators of a given forum, private conversations (a.k.a. private messages or PMs) are not practical and hence should be avoided. But this doesn't mean that PMs to a specific moderator are not allowed! As a matter of fact, if you have a very simple question that you feel like any moderator could answer without the need to discuss it with other mods, a PM is just fine.


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## Nanon

Ouf, je respire. Merci . @Gemmenita, are you fine with this interpretation?


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## jann

hello Gemmenita,

I am touched that you are so very concerned with following the letter of the rules.

*First,* I apologize for not returning to this thread sooner! I'm afraid I've been too busy for WR lately.   Indeed, my colleague wildan1's comments were very a-apropos: as he pointed out, we mods are volunteers, and when our offline obligations are too numerous, we can sometimes go several days or even weeks without signing in.  We wouldn't want a member's concern to go ignored for too long, so this is one of the biggest reasons that we French mods encourage users to contact the whole team via the report function rather than messaging a particular moderator.

*Second, *our French forum sticky with guidance about how to contact the moderators by no means forbids you from sending a private message to one or more of us!  Due to my recent poor attendance on the forums, I'm not sure what this issue is that you so urgently wish to discuss, but I assure you that the French Only mods are not entirely averse to using a group conversation to conduct a two-way conversation to address a member's concerns.   However, as it says in our sticky, we would be prefer to receive your concerns by report.

I understand that your intended communication is not a minor matter of changing a thread title/etc.; you are in the category of "My comment doesn't relate to any particular thread."  I also understand that for you, it would be more convenient to send a group conversation.  This way, you would have the benefit of a stable editor while composing your message, you would know it had been successfully sent, and you would get to keep a copy. But please also consider the situation from the moderator perspective: Clearly you consider the matter important.  We respect that.  Maybe it's complicated, perhaps it's a brilliant idea.  Regardless, it's likely we'll each need to do some research and then compare notes or discuss a bit amongst ourselves before we can agree upon a satisfactory answer (or write back to you to ask for more information).  A report facilitates this team-based process in a way that a group convo does not, because your report will become post #1 in a discussion thread visible only to the moderators.

Why don't we offer group conversation in the sticky as a means to contact us?  First and foremost, because group conversations did not exist when we wrote that sticky.  The private messaging feature on the old forum software was relatively cumbersome: the interface looked like an old-fashioned email inbox (one message per line with no "conversation view" when someone replied to you), Reply All was not the default, and members' PM boxes were limited to a small number of messages. So group PMs were a giant headache!  In the new forum software, PMs have been replaced by private conversations that are displayed like threads.  Neither the length of the conversation nor number of participants is limited in any prohibitive way.  This has made group conversations much more viable.  However, we would have to discuss it carefully and come to a collective agreement on any policy change before updating the sticky with new contact options, and there has been no urgent need to do so.  And as I explained above, on the French forums, we feel that having a report facilitates our team process.

I am not sure why you thought that it would be a one-way process if you filed a report with the French mods about a major concern of yours.   Although requests for title changes and other minor issues are one-way by necessity (how could we possibly have time to thank each reporter personally?!), it would be hard for us to address a member's suggestions, procedural questions, complaints, or big-picture concerns without writing back.



Gemmenita said:


> *- Hi dear rule makers of the Forum 'Français seulement/French only',*
> 
> Would it be possible for you to change please the rule of this forum regarding the 'Report button' and the ways of contacting Moderators and make it like the rule of other forums (such as 'English only')? What's wrong with this very good rule in 'English only' and other Forums, in your opinion???



*Third* -- and this is my long-standing personal opinion -- I feel strongly that an attempt to "homogenize" the subforum-specific guidelines would be a big mistake.  The WR rules apply across all forums; they are the universal ground rules we can all agree upon.  But different subforums differ vastly in the composition and needs of the user communities they serve, the level of activity, the culture, the number of moderators, etc.  It therefore is natural that different subforums have developed "local" guidelines and practices to supplement the universal rules as a function of what works best for them.

best,
Jann

P.S. Here is a partial work-around to address your technical/practical complaints about the report feature: You could compose your report as a conversation before copying and pasting the fully-formatted BBcode version of your text into the black report overlay.  This way, you would have the benefit of the stable editor.   If your concern is as big/important as you imply and clearly requires a response from us, then we will surely get back to you within a week, if only to acknowledge that we're working on the subject. The absence of such an acknowledgement could indeed indicate that your report was not successfully submitted.


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## Gemmenita

Hello jann, 

Many thanks for your so kind reply which - in addition - included promising parts!



jann said:


> I understand that your intended communication is not a minor matter of changing a thread title/etc.; you are in the category of "My comment doesn't relate to any particular thread." I also understand that for you, it would be more convenient to send a group conversation.(...)This way, you would have the benefit of a stable editor while composing your message, you would know it had been successfully sent, and you would get to keep a copy.



Oh, yes, exactly that's what I mean! Thank you, thank you so much, jann! I appreciate you!

Yes, I meant this, and I add that specially I need all these rather for the cases which need a discussion of all Moderators amongst themselves.

It goes without saying that for two other cases as below I don't have problem:

1.  For minor issues and anomalies >>> Repot button >>> no problem with that.

2. For simple questions >>> Private Message as mentioned in the General Rules of WR but not mentioned in French Forum rule.




jann said:


> But please also consider the situation from the moderator perspective: Clearly you consider the matter important. We respect that. Maybe it's complicated, perhaps it's a brilliant idea. Regardless, it's likely we'll each need to do some research and then compare notes or discuss a bit amongst ourselves before we can agree upon a satisfactory answer (or write back to you to ask for more information). A report facilitates this team-based process in a way that a group convo does not, because your report will become post #1 in a discussion thread visible only to the moderators.



I thought that this part is the main reason for which French Mods prefer Report button. Isn't it? But sorry, I did not understand very well the details of this important part.  (specially the blue part) Would you please clarify and explain more?
For example if I send a group PM to 'jann, atcheque, Maître Capello' as participants, for a case where "My comment doesn't relate to any particular thread." , my post#1 wouldn't be visible to all the three moderators? But it certainly would! So what's wrong with this way?



jann said:


> I am not sure why you thought that it would be a one-way process if you filed a report with the French mods about a major concern of yours.



I didn't understand this part either. I never thought so. Maybe I was not clear enough. I know that for minor issues Mods should not reply and I know also that for these major cases, Mods will respond and we will have a two-way process. Is that what you mean?

And now let's get to the promising part of your reply that I loved so much:



> Second, our French forum sticky with guidance about how to contact the moderators by no means forbids you from sending a private message to *one or more* of us! Due to my recent poor attendance on the forums, I'm not sure what this issue is that you so urgently wish to discuss, but I assure you that the French Only mods are not entirely averse to using *a group conversation* to conduct a two-way conversation to address a member's concerns.  However, as it says in our sticky, we would be prefer to receive your concerns by report.



*These two blue sentences are very good news!

So Mods of French Forum agree with group conversations as well as Mods in English only and other forums! That's a very good news!*



jann said:


> However, we would have to discuss it carefully and come to a collective agreement on any policy change before updating the sticky with new contact options, and there has been no urgent need to do so.



 Oh, yes, that's a very good idea! Now that I see that you dear Mods of 'French only' agree with private message to only one Moderator as well as group converstation (when really needed), why don't you update the internal rules of French forum (which are remained from the ancient software) precising the border between Report button and PMs (solo or group)?
@Nanon : thank you for your attention: I would be fine if details about PM be added and mentioned in the internal rules of French Forum.


Thank you jann for the technical solution!

I think if the rule of contacting Mods in French only forum gets updated, there would remain no problem for me however I have some ideas about fixing my problems:

1. You suggested to type first in a PM post: thank you, yes, as a matter of fact, once when that fragile black window disappeared two times after typing two times a long message, I had the idea of typing first in a *Word* file in my PC and then copy and paste it in that window. So that in case of any unexpected disappearance, I just copy and pasted. OK, we can solve the problem of the weak black window by 'Word' files (or as you said by typing in a PM post)

2.Then the second problem: the 'thanking message of Report button' which is not reliable and which always thanks you for sending message even if the message has not been sent.
Therefore I think one week waiting for the reply from Mods as well as testing the successful reception would be so long. Specially for cases which need a fast reply, for example when the continuation in a linguistic Thread depends on the solution of a problem of the Original Poster in that thread. And if after one week, the member recgonizes that his message has not been sent, what shall he do? Wouldn't he have his 'waiting time' wasted without result as well as his linguistic Thread having been suspended for one week?

3.Now let's get to the third problem:
Any suggestion for having a copy of what we had sent? Today I needed the reply to one of my messages sent via Report button _some months ago_ where the Mod who had answered, hadn't inserted the copy of my message. I didn't  made heads and tails of the PM I was reading _now_ and didn't remember it was for what case exaclty ??? Shall I start each time to search in the screeshots of my PC for a message that I have screeshoted months ago as a solution for having a copy of my sent message???

So you see, I do two extra things that other members don't do: 'Word file' & screenshoting messages.
>>> Personnally my suggestion to homogenize this rule is for homogenizing facilities and accomodations among members.


So for solving problems 2 & 3, I have a suggestion as follows, and *would you please discuss this too in your reunion for updating French forums rules ?
*
I think in case that a member sends a long message to the Mods groupe _via Report_ button which needs the discussion of all Mods amongst themselves,
it would be better that the first Mod who receives the message send kindly a message like this to that member:



> Bonjour XXX,
> 
> Nous avons bien reçu votre message ci-dessous:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> blablabal(here the copy of the original posted message is inserted)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nous discutons votre problème entre nous. Nous vous réponderons dès que possible.
> Cordialement,
> L'équipe du Forum Français seulement
Click to expand...

Would it be possible for you to do this, please?
Like that, as a member I would have a copy of my message and at the same time I will be sure that my message has been sent successfully and so I can wait even for days for the reply.
And therefore *on va couper la poire en deux ! *Isn't it?



Thank you very much dear jann for your time and your attention,
I love you!
Gemmenita


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## atcheque

Bonjour,

But why don't you copy your message for yourself before posting the report?


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## jann

Hello Gemmenita,

In answer to your requests for clarification:

*1.*


			
				Gemmenita said:
			
		

> jann said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A report facilitates this team-based process in a way that a group convo does not, because your report will become post #1 in a discussion thread visible only to the moderators.
> 
> 
> 
> I thought that this part is the main reason for which French Mods prefer Report button. Isn't it? But sorry, I did not understand very well the details of this important part.  (specially the blue part) Would you please clarify and explain more? For example if I send a group PM to 'jann, atcheque, Maître Capello' as participants, for a case where "My comment doesn't relate to any particular thread." , my post#1 wouldn't be visible to all the three moderators? But it certainly would! So what's wrong with this way?
Click to expand...

If you send us a group conversation, you as a participant will see everything that is said there.  Therefore, if we need to discuss the matter amongst ourselves before getting back to you, we cannot do it in the group conversation.  We will have to create our own report about your concern and copy your message there so that we can talk about it together.  As I acknowledged, I know group convo has conveniences for you... but I am asking you to recognize that report has significant conveniences for us.  (By the way, I am not sure that there is a single "main reason" that French mods prefer reports, but the blue sentence is certainly a "very important factor.")

*2.*


			
				Gemmenita said:
			
		

> jann said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not sure why you thought that it would be a one-way process if you filed a report with the French mods about a major concern of yours.
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't understand this part either. I never thought so. Maybe I was not clear enough.
Click to expand...

You were most insistant about wanting a two-way conversation.  This led me to assume that one of your objections to the report system was that you believed it was exclusively "one-way" and that we would never reply to any of your reports.  I merely wished to clarify that this is not the case:  we absolutely do reply to reports when necessary, so it would be inaccurate to characterize the report system as 100% one-way.

*3.*


			
				Gemmenita said:
			
		

> jann said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> However, we would have to discuss it carefully and come to a collective agreement on any policy change before updating the sticky with new contact options, and there has been no urgent need to do so.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh, yes, that's a very good idea! Now that I see that you dear Mods of 'French only' agree with private message to only one Moderator as well as group converstation (when really needed), why don't you update the internal rules of French forum (which are remained from the ancient software) precising the border between Report button and PMs (solo or group)?
Click to expand...

I am sorry to put a damper on your enthusiasm, but I cannot be sure from your response whether you fully understood what I was trying to say.  I wouldn't want there to be any misunderstandings, so as a precaution I want to rephrase what I did say to try to clarify what I meant:

If you absolutely insist, you may send us a group PM. Neither the rules nor the French Only guidelines forbid it.

However, we want you to understand that we don't like group PMs: from our perspective, reports are better.
Therefore please try to minimize the number of cases where you send us a group PM.
We don't make changes to the sticky unless there is an acute need to do so.
Even in the case of an acute need, we update the stickies only after extremely careful consideration and thorough discussion amongst the mod team.  

We do not perceive an acute need to mention group PMs in the sticky at this time. Based on the number and nature of the reports and (rare!!) individual or group PMs we receive, we believe the existing report system works well the vast majority of the time.  I am sorry if you do not agree with this assessment, but we cannot change forum policies to suit the preferences of individual members.  (Please also recall that, to borrow Mike's words, WR is not a democracy: for example, there would doubtless be a large number of current and future members in favor of eliminating our strict rules against proofreading, but we are not about to allow proofreading by popular vote!  )
*4. *
Regarding your three technical issues:  Word and screenshots are indeed a good way to keep track of your reports. Thank you for being creative in your own personal work-arounds. 

*5.*


			
				Gemmenita said:
			
		

> I think in case that a member sends a long message to the Mods groupe _via Report_ button which needs the discussion of all Mods amongst themselves, it would be better that the first Mod who receives the message send kindly a message like this to that member:


As I said before, in such cases, you can expect to receive either an acknowledgement or a full response within a week:


			
				jann said:
			
		

> If your concern [...] clearly requires a response from us, then we will surely get back to you within a week, if only to acknowledge that we're working on the subject.


Surely that is sufficient.  Please let us moderate as best we can, rather asking us to promise fast replies, exact protocols, or special treatment in particular cases.


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## Gemmenita

Hello jann,



jann said:


> If you absolutely *insist*, you may send us a group PM. Neither the rules nor the French Only guidelines forbid it.
> 
> However, we want you to understand that we don't like group PMs: from our perspective, reports are better.
> Therefore please try *to minimize* the number of cases where you send us a group PM.
> We don't make changes to the sticky unless there is an acute need to do so.
> Even in the case of an acute need, we update the stickies only after extremely careful consideration and thorough discussion amongst the mod team.
> 
> We do not perceive an acute need to mention group PMs in the sticky at this time. Based on the number and nature of the reports and (rare!!) individual or group PMs we receive, we believe the existing report system works well the vast majority of the time.  I am sorry if you do not agree with this assessment, but we cannot change forum policies to suit the preferences of *individual members.*



Thank you so much, jann. You don't know how much pleasant was for me hearing all these : specially the very good news and clarification in 'rose'.
Everything is clear for me now.

Just I would like to reassure you about *bold* parts:

- You asked to minimize the number of cases for group PMs : of course, and you are right ! As a matter of fact, these cases don't happen regularly and as you have recognized I am not a member who send messages to you every day or every week or even every month.

If I insist on being able to send a group PM, it is because* I always like to have a copy* of my message in the reply via PM by your colleagues to my message via Report button which is most of the time forgotten even if I make a request for it ! ( maybe because of their large amount of work! I understand them too...)

So I reassure you that this case of group PM might happen once in a blue moon  or even not at all ( if I make sure that a copy of my message would always be inserted in the reply) ... Specially that I see that you don't like it so much, and I respect it, my lovely Mods !

- I agree with _the whole_ actual Reporting system assessment of French only and indeed I don't have a very big or serious problem with your reporting system _in general_ and as I said in #13,  I think that the rules of each Forum are highly respectable : I would like _only_ _the addition _of that PM rule to avoid any probable objection from your colleagues for having sent to them a PM since it is not mentioned in the rules ! ( but after your reply, everything is OK now! MERCI ! and as our dear Nanon has said : I am fine now !)

- You have certainly recognized in my post #1 that I have opened this discussion believing that the rule for contacting Mods were the same in all forums so all these issues were for all Forums and all members
(hence my request to Mike!) and didn't know that it was not so and that my request would be considered finally as a very few number of members' or even
an individual member's issues.

- I am happy that you liked my 'screeshot solution'  but although screenshoting seems a very good idea it has its own problems.
(They take up space in my PC and organizing them is time consuming and then sometimes I read the reply to my message in my cell phone outside the home whereas its screeshoted Original post is in my PC at home, miles away from question and answer! So, this 'screeshot solution' is just a temporal solution and not fundamental !!!)



Your final sentence in #17:


jann said:


> If your concern is as big/important as you imply and clearly requires a response from us, then we will surely get back to you within a week, if only to acknowledge that we're working on the subject. The absence of such an acknowledgement could indeed indicate that your report was not successfully submitted.


Your sentence in #19:


jann said:


> *As I said before:* in such cases, you can expect to receive either an acknowledgement or a full response within a week:


And here I would like to deeply apologize for missing the word 'acknowledgement' in your final sentence in #17 which led me to give a suggestion of acknowledgement in my #18 with an example _in French_ ! I don't know why this happened maybe because of the structure of 'if only to' which attracted my attention ( I confess that linguistically it was new for me. ). Je suis vraiment désolée ! Pardon ! Therefore now that I understand well this sentence, be sure that *I agree 100%* with your
*very good* suggestion of *acknowledgement* or full response *within a week  *(with a copy of my message inside them. C'est chouette !)


Many thanks again, jann and I wish you the best as well as to all the team of Moderation of Français seulement + all Forums.

Gemmenita


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