# Forcing your brain to mimic a foreign language



## guitarzan

leenico said:
			
		

> II'm curious as to what you have come up with. Why don't you share it with us?



OK, here goes; Do you know how it's really difficult to understand television, radio, or even a person speaking the L2? (second language. The one you are learning.)

It seems to go super fast and then you get confused and maybe pick out a word here or there, but inevitably you don't understand anything except words that sound like your L1 anyway, and anyone can do that. It's frustrating and discouraging. 

What I started doing was a trick that I was always pretty good at ever since I was a child. 

When someone is speaking to me, I can mimic them and say the words they are saying at the same time. It's as if you know what they are going to say before they do. Your brain is actually on auto-pilot. You're not trying to guess what they're going to say because you could never be fast enough. You're just copying the lip movement and the sound that is coming out. I don't know how I do it, I've just always been able to and I'm sure you can do it too, if you give it a try.

It's comparable to the game you play as a child where you repeat everything that someone says to you and drive them crazy, except for you're repeating the word as it comes out, not after they have said it. 

So, I was just messing around one day and started to do it while listening to Italian radio. 

I started actually comprehending what they were saying. It surprised me because I had no time to think or translate. What they were saying was being translated in the brain without conscious thought. 

I attribute this to the same skills you use for speed reading. When you speed read you do not repeat the words you read in your head. You read so fast that if you try you won't be able to do it. There are tricks that you can use to stop yourself from repeating the words you read. It is hard and you must be diligent. One is to hum a tune while you read. Sounds counterproductive but its just the opposite. Your brain drinks in the whole of the paragraphs and the whole ideas being communicated instead of first reading each word and then blocking them together to form meaning. You are literally reading paragraphs at one time instead of words. 

I think that is what is happening when mimicking the foreign language. Your brain is concentrating on something else and you get the meaning as a whole instead of;

oggi... that means day. By the time you have said this in your head the speaker is gone. They are 10 sentences down the road. And you are still trying to figure out where "oggi" comes in to the mix. 

When you get better you might understand a phrase consisting of three words instead of one, but its still unproductive. 

I think this technique is actually forcing you brain to stop translating. In your L1, how do you know what someone is saying. You just do. There's no explanation. There are theories why you know what is being said, but even linguists don't really know. 

I like the theory that the brain is actually much more powerful than we give it credit. That you can learn a foreign language, read and calculate at supersonic speed. It's more conducive than presupposing that you're an idiot because you've been studying French for 10 years, but still can't converse with a native. 

Anyway, try it and please tell me your experience. It might not work until you can consistently perform the trick in your native language first. You don't have to be perfect. You'll know that you're good enough when you can say to yourself, "wow that's weird. How did I do that" in your L1. Then start with the L2.


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## fenixpollo

I don't think that this is a language "trick", guitarzan: I think you have ESP.


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## french4beth

Very interesting post, guitarzan. I have the same talent - I can mimic people without knowing what they're saying ahead of time!  It was a lot of fun annoying my little brother & sister in my childhood!  I also used this in karate class when we were reciting various phrases that we were supposed to memorize ahead of time (saved my butt a few times!).  I can also do this with music - I can anticipate the lyrics & the notes.

I have never thought of trying what you suggested - I'll have to give it a shot!

However, you brought up some really good points - in order to achieve fluency, you have to force yourself NOT to concentrate on what you are saying, otherwise you will never speak a word, because you'll be too afraid of making a mistake.  However, as we all know, even native speakers make mistakes in their own languages all of the time (much to my ESL students' surprise), so as with anything else, the more you relax, the more you'll be able to accomplish.  For example, someone who stutters never has a problem with stuttering when they sing; stroke patients or other people who have suffered brain injuries are also taught to sing some things as it is easier for them to learn songs than simple words.

I'll definitely give your suggestion a try, but I think I'll stick to Romance languages (Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese) as I already speak English, French & a tiny bit of Spanish (and used to speak Russian).  I don't know if your technique would work for me on non-Romance languages (since I have no background in them).


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## flame

Good approach guitarzan - I am using this technique myself in trying to pronounce various dialects of my mother tounge. Key for me is "don't interpret - immitate". I shall watch carefully if this would work for me even with foreign languages.

By the way I am playing some musical instruments and I suspect that your technique works the better the more you are into music making. Would you agree?


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## geve

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> I don't think that this is a language "trick", guitarzan: I think you have ESP.


What is ESP?  
Is it contagious???  (I certainly hope so: guitarzan's "disease" seems like a useful one, even if I'm not sure I've understood everything)


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## guitarzan

french4beth said:
			
		

> Very interesting post, guitarzan. I have the same talent - I can mimic people without knowing what they're saying ahead of time!  It was a lot of fun annoying my little brother & sister in my childhood!  I also used this in karate class when we were reciting various phrases that we were supposed to memorize ahead of time (saved my butt a few times!).  I can also do this with music - I can anticipate the lyrics & the notes.
> 
> I have never thought of trying what you suggested - I'll have to give it a shot!
> 
> However, you brought up some really good points - in order to achieve fluency, you have to force yourself NOT to concentrate on what you are saying, otherwise you will never speak a word, because you'll be too afraid of making a mistake.  However, as we all know, even native speakers make mistakes in their own languages all of the time (much to my ESL students' surprise), so as with anything else, the more you relax, the more you'll be able to accomplish.  For example, someone who stutters never has a problem with stuttering when they sing; stroke patients or other people who have suffered brain injuries are also taught to sing some things as it is easier for them to learn songs than simple words.
> 
> I'll definitely give your suggestion a try, but I think I'll stick to Romance languages (Spanish, Italian, or Portuguese) as I already speak English, French & a tiny bit of Spanish (and used to speak Russian).  I don't know if your technique would work for me on non-Romance languages (since I have no background in them).




Conversing is whole different thing. I am terrified. Another trick I use is memorization. I memorize huge chunks of dialogue and/or news reports. I can speak for 20 minutes straight in Italian. I still can't converse. That's why I asked for help with the letter because it's so hard to think of what you intend to say. I am terrified to even chat on an Italian chatboard, let alone actual conversation. 

It seems to me that when people are conversing, as opposed to reporting or discussing a profound topic, they use many of the same phrases over and over. There seems to be a "vocabulary" of phrases that change once in awhile through slang or modification, but generally stay the same. 

Do you think it would be beneficial to put the majority of time into phrases instead of words? 

In English we are constantly using pat phrases. Even in this writing you will see them. 

(just used) "seems to me", "as opposed to", "once in a while", "let alone", "over and over". 

(yours) "alot of fun", "we were supposed to", "saved my butt", "a few times", "give it a shot", "as we all know", "I'll stick to", "a tiny bit".


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## leenico

What happens in my case is that when I am listening to a foreign language (Italian) I am in auto mode for a short while and I understand pretty much everything. Then for some unknown reason I automatically switch to manual, and find myself trying to translate word for word. Maybe if I tried your method I would be able to stay on auto for a longer period of time. You might have something with your approach. I will try it, and let you know. Although it will probably take a great deal of time to perfect my use of it.


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## guitarzan

leenico said:
			
		

> What happens in my case is that when I am listening to a foreign language (Italian) I am in auto mode for a short while and I understand pretty much everything. Then for some unknown reason I automatically switch to manual, and find myself trying to translate word for word. Maybe if I tried your method I would be able to stay on auto for a longer period of time. You might have something with your approach. I will try it, and let you know. Although it will probably take a great deal of time to perfect my use of it.



Its the same with speed reading. You can't do it if you are reading for pleasure because you have to be alert to constantly battle your brain's tendancies. You get better, but you must practice and it's hard to find the time. You have to do it every single day. It is definitely a skill that requires work.


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## badgrammar

It's not exactly the same, but for learning pronunciation I have another trick:  Watch people's moutns and try to imitate exactly how they hold their mouths and facial muscles while they talk.  Seriously.  You can do it with friends or watching a movie on cassette, then you can repeat it again and again.

You have to get your face to use the same muscles as a native uses, tense and relax your mouth the way they do.  I noticed in one language that people tend to speak using noticeably more movement of the lower jaw and  mouth and less movement of the upper jaw and mouth than in French or English.  And I find by imitating that, I sound much better!


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## fenixpollo

ESP = Extra-Sensory Perception.  





			
				leenico said:
			
		

> What happens in my case is that when I am listening to a foreign language (Italian) I am in auto mode for a short while and I understand pretty much everything.


 I'm imagining your eyes rolling back into your head as you go into "auto" mode.  I think that you are all either idiot savants, or you're Mutants like Dr. X with the ability to read people's minds.  

I want to change my answer in the "Getting to Know You" thread -- the natural gift that I'd like to have is the one you're talking about here.


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## french4beth

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> ESP = Extra-Sensory Perception. I'm imagining your eyes rolling back into your head as you go into "auto" mode. I think that you are all either idiot savants, or you're Mutants like Dr. X with the ability to read people's minds. *I knew you were going to say that, fenixpollo!  *
> 
> I want to change my answer in the "Getting to Know You" thread -- the natural gift that I'd like to have is the one you're talking about here.


I think a lot of people can do this, and don't even realize it - have you ever been in a public place, and you started reciting something or singing along to something you don't really know that well?  For example, at a sporting match, when they start playing the national anthem, don't you just start singing along, even though you couldn't possibly sing it on your own?  I think _everyone_ should give this a shot.

I also really like badgrammar's suggestion - I'm going to try that, too!


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## fenixpollo

french4beth said:
			
		

> I think a lot of people can do this, and don't even realize it - have you ever been in a public place, and you started reciting something or singing along to something you don't really know that well? For example, at a sporting match, when they start playing the national anthem, don't you just start singing along, even though you couldn't possibly sing it on your own? I think _everyone_ should give this a shot.


 In reality, I'm being facetious with my posts about ESP and Mutants... I _would_ like to give these strategies a shot, but I don't really understand them.  I can and do sing the national anthem on my own, and I sing out loud all the time... and I'm not sure what you mean by singing along to a song I don't know very well.  If I don't know the song, I can't sing it. 

Maybe the key for me in understanding this mimicking technique is that I am able to mimic accents in my native language, especially by practicing through song. After listening to a Scottish accent (spoken or sung), for example, I can mimick it pretty well and then imitate it independently. Perhaps I mimick accents in the same way that you guys are mimicking language. I can't imagine actually saying words that I don't know, and I especially can't imagine this: 





			
				guitarzan said:
			
		

> When someone is speaking to me, I can mimic them and say the words they are saying at the same time. It's as if you know what they are going to say before they do. Your brain is actually on auto-pilot.


 I'm too much of a visual learner, though -- I really need to see/visualize a word and its spelling. I'm not sure if I'm enough of an auditory learner for this to come easily for me.


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## guitarzan

Lets say you don't know the words to the National Anthem but you are at a gathering where you are absolutely expected to know the words. Everyone else practiced and you didn't. You fake it. You're not really singing it. You are faking it and to fake it well you need to have some sound coming out. You're overthinking this. You don't need to see anything. You're just faking. And you don't even need to be good at it. 

Like I said previously, I'm not sure what is actually going on, but my theory is that your brain is just being distracted. It makes it impossible to translate the L2 into the L1 in your head which takes a prohibitive amount of time and brain power. 

I think the key is to "not translate" but to just "know". You've studied the vocabulary, so it's in your brain. You just need to cut out the step of translating each word as it comes from the speaker's mouth. This way you don't get stuck translating one word, but instead, the whole idea of what the person is saying comes to you.


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## groggy

I think it's an interesting idea, and I definitely agree that our brains are much more powerful than we realise, but with regard to the thing about being able to mimic someone's words and repeat them at the same time as they are being spoken... come on, that is just a kid's game and anyone can do it . You're not really saying the words at the same time (although it may seem like it), it's more just like a kind of high-speed mimicry... you can actually do the same thing copying someone's body movements.


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## justjukka

I think it's a good technique.  When I'm watching something in Spanish, I try to mouth what they're saying as they say it in hopes of keeping up with what is being said.


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## guitarzan

groggy said:
			
		

> I think it's an interesting idea, and I definitely agree that our brains are much more powerful than we realise, but with regard to the thing about being able to mimic someone's words and repeat them at the same time as they are being spoken... come on, that is just a kid's game and anyone can do it . You're not really saying the words at the same time (although it may seem like it), it's more just like a kind of high-speed mimicry... you can actually do the same thing copying someone's body movements.




That's exactly what I'm saying. It's not hard and I never said it was. But, it's something that you wouldn't normally think would work. Face it, the toughest thing to do when learning a foreign language is to understand a native speaker. There are a lot of differences between the written and spoken word. Pauses and repeats and ums and everything. Words blend together and sound different. I'm just trying to find anything that will work and have been looking for a long time. The way that foreign language is taught is not optimal, by far. We study and study and study, verbs, past participles and it does nothing to improve your chances of being able to communicate on a par with a native speaker.


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## agoodeno

Guitarzan, does the "effect" work if you just make the mouth movements but don't make any sounds? I'm wondering if it's the movement or the sound that's causing your enhanced comprehension.

Alan


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## guitarzan

agoodeno said:
			
		

> Guitarzan, does the "effect" work if you just make the mouth movements but don't make any sounds? I'm wondering if it's the movement or the sound that's causing your enhanced comprehension.
> 
> Alan



Sure, in fact I find that occasionally repeating a phrase that is familiar to you when you hear it helps. I don't know why, but it seems to involve you more. I find sometimes the sound messes you up. Basically try anything that works for you.


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## agoodeno

Great. Now, does it work if you keep your mouth closed and just move your tongue around your mouth in mimicking the speaker? This would be less annoying to the speaker.

Alan


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## guitarzan

I wouldn't do it to a live person. Do it while listening to the television, tapes, radio, etc...


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## Confused Linguist

guitarzan said:
			
		

> I wouldn't do it to a live person. Do it while listening to the television, tapes, radio, etc...


 
I was surprised and delighed to read this thread. I've been doing this "technique" for years and it works for me.


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## danielfranco

I have to stop reading your stuff, guys... I tried this technique at work today (medical interpreter) and ended up telling a mom how to change the head gaskets of a diesel engine instead of telling her that the nurse wanted her to go to radiology...
It's the last time I try anything youze guys talk about in the forums in real life...
Peace out.


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