# Urdu, Hindi: Homosexual



## lcfatima

In this article the author says 



> Perhaps it’s time to start re-defining these terms in our languages – Urdu has a term ‘humjinsi’ which means ‘outside of gender’ – to root them in our criss-crossed hued cartography of identity and of struggle to be included in the term ‘human’.



Does hamjinsi mean what the author says? If so, would that be widely understood as homosexual, or just in activist circles?

What are some other non-slang terms for homosexual in Hindi and Urdu?


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## Qureshpor

lcfatima said:


> In this article the author says
> 
> 
> 
> Does hamjinsi mean what the author says? If so, would that be widely understood as homosexual, or just in activist circles?
> 
> What are some other non-slang terms for homosexual in Hindi and Urdu?



I don't know about Hindi but in Urdu, this is the word used in polite speech.


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## flyinfishjoe

Isn't the Hindi word for homosexual समलैंगिक _samlaingik_ and homosexuality समलैंगिकता _samlaingiktaa_?


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## BP.

_hamjinsii_ per se does not mean anything semblable to this.

_ham_-same and _jins_-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "_ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo_" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".

Now, _jins _is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, _hamjinsii _is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.

The word you're looking for is *ham jins parastii*-ھم جنس پرستی. _parast _as in _indulgent in_.


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## Sheikh_14

BP. said:


> _hamjinsii_ per se does not mean anything semblable to this.
> 
> _ham_-same and _jins_-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "_ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo_" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".
> 
> Now, _jins _is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, _hamjinsii _is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.
> 
> The word you're looking for is *ham jins parastii*-ھم جنس پرستی. _parast _as in _indulgent in_.



True as you may be but wouldn't hum jins parast rather signifiy sexist rather than homosexual, with the latter being represented with humjins pasand? Pasand suggests adoration for something whereas parast usually equates to the English suffix of -ist. For sexist people are more often than not, not homosexuals they are just supremacists..
I may be wrong if so some argumentation would help.


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## iskander e azam

My print dictionary has چپٹی کھیلنا  as a term for lesbianism (female homosexuality).


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## marrish

iskander e azam said:


> My print dictionary has چپٹی کھیلنا  as a term for lesbianism (female homosexuality).


This doesn't mean 'lesbianism' I'm afraid to say but a sexual act between women. Moreover it is a verb and is very vulgar – which disqualifies it as a neutral term for a homosexual female or male.



BP. said:


> _hamjinsii_ per se does not mean anything semblable to this.
> 
> _ham_-same and _jins_-kind/type. A vegetable vendor could say to his apprentice "_ham jins sabziaa.n yakjaa rak.hoo_" - "ہم جنس سبزیاں یکجا رکھو" - "keep similar vegetables together".
> 
> Now, _jins _is a very general word and is nowadays commonly used for gender. Nevertheless, _hamjinsii _is not a word used in this context. The author is mistaken.
> 
> The word you're looking for is *ham jins parastii*-ھم جنس پرستی. _parast _as in _indulgent in_.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sheikh_14 said:
> 
> 
> 
> True as you may be but wouldn't hum jins parast rather signifiy sexist rather than homosexual, with the latter being represented with humjins pasand? Pasand suggests adoration for something whereas parast usually equates to the English suffix of -ist. For sexist people are more often than not, not homosexuals they are just supremacists..
> I may be wrong if so some argumentation would help.
Click to expand...

No, BP. SaaHib is right, the word is ہم جنس پرست_ ham-jins-parast _and it is the best, neutral and semantically productive, applicable to both sexes term.


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## Sheikh_14

so than pasand may suggest a sexist. In other words its the other way round.


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## Sheikh_14

Marrish sahib could you write down the roman urdu equivalent of the following and if you deem at all appropriate write in a formal language if required what it precisely means.


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## marrish

Sheikh_14 said:


> so than pasand may suggest a sexist. In other words its the other way round.


Yes it may be other way round but I am not sure about -pasand for ''sexist''. Why not open a new thread for this word?


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## Sheikh_14

Sheikh_14 said:


> Marrish sahib could you write down the roman urdu equivalent of the following and if you deem at all appropriate write in a formal language if required what it precisely means.



 چپٹی کھیلنا


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## Sheikh_14

It's just a khyaal (thought) and yes not a bad idea. It came to mind since pasand is usually added to those who are obsessed with something i.e. shidat-pasand


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## Faylasoof

Many good suggestions above and BP SaaHib has covered it well to indicate how the component parts are used. 

I agree that ham-jins can be quite general in meaning but in the correct context we do use it to mean a homosexual / gay person. 

ہم جنس _ham-jins_ =  لُوطی _luu__T__ii_ = homosexual --- with لُوطی_ luuTii_ as a rather impolite form!
 ہم جنسیت _ham-jinsiyat_ =  لواطت  _liwaaTat_  = homosexuality


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## Qureshpor

I don't know what other friends think about this but in Urdu literature, especially Ghazal poetry, one occasionally comes across the concept of "*amrad-parastii*" which is male homosexuality.


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## Shahaalam

Personally I believe that using parasti is derogatory. As if it's a cult. We're not worshipping the same sex. We prefer the same sex.


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## iskander e azam

Shahaalam said:


> Personally I believe that using parasti is derogatory. As if it's a cult. We're not worshipping the same sex. We prefer the same sex.



Salaam Shahaalam,

Welcome to the forum.

Here is what Platts has to say about parast and parasti in his magnum opus. 

Only two positive instances of its use. 

Best wishes,

Alex


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## iskander e azam

marrish said:


> This doesn't mean 'lesbianism' I'm afraid to say but a sexual act between women. Moreover it is a verb and is very vulgar – which disqualifies it as a neutral term for a homosexual female or male.



Marrish,

Thanks for this correction.

Best wishes,

Alex


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## PersoLatin

In Persian the word for homosexual is هم جنس گرا/_ham jens garâ_, where _garâ _is derived from گراییدن/garâŷdan- to have tendencies/be inclined/amenable to.

هم ‏جنس ‏باز/_ham jens bâz_ was also used but it seems it has been dropped.


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## fdb

Faylasoof said:


> ہم جنس _ham-jins_ =  لُوطی _luu__T__ii_ = homosexual --- with لُوطی_ luuTii_ as a rather impolite form!
> ہم جنسیت _ham-jinsiyat_ =  لواطت  _liwaaTat_  = homosexuality



To go back to the very beginning of this thread: ham-jins means “same-sex”, not “outside of gender”. The Arabic lūṭī means “like the people of the city of Lot/Lūṭ”, i.e. Sodom. The abstract liwāṭ is a technical term in Islamic law, exactly like English etc. “sodomy”, understood to mean “anal intercourse”.


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## Shahaalam

PersoLatin said:


> هم ‏جنس ‏باز/_ham jens bâz_ was also used but it seems it has been dropped.


Hamjinsbāz is still used in Afghan Persian. I found a few instances when I searched on YouTube once.


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## Jashn

I'm not sure how common it is, but I've noticed a lot of people I know who come from Bombay will say someone is 'meetha'/sweet to refer to the person as a homosexual. Seems to be a polite code? I've only ever heard it used to describe a man, I'm not sure if there's a similar term used for ladies.


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## Shahaalam

Jashn said:


> I'm not sure how common it is, but I've noticed a lot of people I know who come from Bombay will say someone is 'meetha'/sweet to refer to the person as a homosexual. Seems to be a polite code? I've only ever heard it used to describe a man, I'm not sure if there's a similar term used for ladies.


It might seem polite, but it is a derogatory word. It's used in other areas as well. It's like calling them "fairy" in English.


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## Qureshpor

fdb said:


> To go back to the very beginning of this thread: ham-jins means “same-sex”, not “outside of gender”. The Arabic lūṭī means “like the people of the city of Lot/Lūṭ”, i.e. Sodom. The abstract liwāṭ is a technical term in Islamic law, exactly like English etc. “sodomy”, understood to mean “anal intercourse”.


fdb, you are absolutely right about the literal meaning of "ham-jins". However in Urdu ہم جنس پسندی or ہم جنس پرستی is often shortened to just ہم جنسی all implying homosexuality in the right context.


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## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> جنس پسندی or ہم جنس پرستی is often shortened to just ہم جنسی all implying homosexuality in the right context.


Hi Qureshpor, nether of the full versions above reflect the reality of homosexually, they are are judgemental, پسندی implies a choice and پرستی & بازی are even less appropriate.

گرایی may not be the best choice but it is less judgemental. هم جنسی in fact is not a bad choice for ‘homosexuality but what is a ‘homosexual’ then?

Of course what I said is based on the literal meaning of these words in mainstream Persian.


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## Qureshpor

PersoLatin said:


> Hi Qureshpor, nether of the full versions above reflect the reality of homosexually, they are are judgemental, پسندی implies a choice and پرستی & بازی are even less appropriate.
> 
> گرایی may not be the best choice but it is less judgemental.
> 
> Of course what I said is based on the literal meaning of these words in mainstream Persian.


PersoLatin, that's how they are used in Urdu, whether right or wrong and Persian is not listed in the thread title.


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## PersoLatin

I respect your view. Persian itself has many borrowed Arabic words that are used not quite the same way as they are used in Arabic, However that happened over a 12 century period, and to words that are from a completely unrelated language. Urdu is indo-Iranian so is this forum, and importantly these words are & have been changing & evolving in all modern languages and Urdu is no exception.


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## iskander e azam

Shahaalam SaaHib,

Would you be willing or able to provide a term that you deem appropriate to describe those who are ordinarily called ہم جنس پسند/پرست?

Best wishes,

Alex


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## Shahaalam

iskander e azam said:


> Shahaalam SaaHib,
> 
> Would you be willing or able to provide a term that you deem appropriate to describe those who are ordinarily called ہم جنس پسند/پرست?
> 
> Best wishes,
> 
> Alex


I am of the belief that the term "Hamjinspasand" would be a good word, but now I'm starting to think that PersoLatin has a point when he says "garā" might seem more appropriate. However, modern Urdu doesn't tend to borrow directly from Iranian Persian and I believe that to maintain a distinction of thought, we need to find a different term.



PersoLatin said:


> پسندی implies a choice



Another thing I'd like to comment on is that "pasandī" doesn't imply a choice. You can't always decide your preferences. It's not a "*cārā*" as we'd call it in Urdu. So, _Hamjinspasand _is still the word I'm leaning towards.


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## Haseeb-14

I'm not sure about Hindi, but Urdu is a very Islamic-oriented language As such, no polite words quite exist for 'homosexual', simply derogatory terms.


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## PersoLatin

Shahaalam said:


> Another thing I'd like to comment on is that "pasandī" doesn't imply a choice.


For what it’s worrh, _pasandidan_ in Persian primarily means ‘to choose’ things one likes, e.g. شاه‌پسند etc,


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## Shahaalam

PersoLatin said:


> For what it’s worrh, _pasandidan_ in Persian primarily means ‘to choose’ things one likes, e.g. شاه‌پسند etc,


But in Urdu,  _pasand _is preference or liking.


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## PersoLatin

[


Shahaalam said:


> But in Urdu, _pasand _is preference or liking.


Thank you ’prefer’ is exactly what it is, and you normally use pasand/prefer when you express your liking for one thing over another.

So with pasand/prefer, choice is involved.


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## Shahaalam

PersoLatin said:


> [
> Thank you ’prefer’ is exactly what it is, and you normally use pasand/prefer when you express your liking for one thing over another.
> 
> So with pasand/prefer, choice is involved.


Preference≠choice. It's fairly common to refer to sexual orientation as sexual preference. In Hindustani, pasand is used not just for showing preference of one thing over the other, but also simply a liking for one thing where Persian might use dōst dāštan or xuš dāštan.
مجھے وہ لڑکا پسند ہی۔
Mujhe vo laṛkā pasand hai.
I like that boy.


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## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> fdb, you are absolutely right about the literal meaning of "ham-jins". However in Urdu ہم جنس پسندی or ہم جنس پرستی is often shortened to just ہم جنسی all implying homosexuality in the right context.



I would second this and correct me if I'm wrong but Ham-jinsii is a shorthand for both homosexuality and a homosexual I.e. someone who prefers people of the same sex, or the activity/orientation. The terms for homosexuality on the other hand is ham-jinsiiyat, ham-jins-parastii and ham-jins-pasandii. I have never come across the term ham-jins on the other hand to mean anything but the same type thence it is excluded from this particular context. However, upon reading Janaab E a'aalaa Faylasoof's Post above it seems to be current for both purposes. From a personal standpoint ham-jins makes sense for homogenous things and ham-jinsii/an for people. This begs the question that how would you then refer to homogeneity and heterogeneity which are divorced matters from homosexuality? Perhaps they would be yak-jins (homogenous) and yak-jinsiiyat (homogeneity). Not entirely sure about heterogenous and heterogeneity 

From what I understand the above is the case which can then further be extrapolated for further related phenomena.

Same-sex marriages - ham-jinsii/jins shaadiiyaaN/a'ruusiiyaaN/azdiwaajaat.

Homosexual man i.e. Gay- ham-jinsii
Lesbian- ham-jinsan.

Similarly this doesn't even touch the surface when it comes to bi-sexuals. If one were to give it a go the terms that spark to mind for bisexuality would be dohrii-jinsiiyat. A bi-sexual man perhaps would be dohra-jinsii and a female dohrii-jinsan. 

I am always open to comments or suggestions whether in the form of corrections, rebuttals or affirmations.


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