# Dovevi essere così bella



## Lore86

Hi all!

Come si potrebbe tradurre "Dovevi essere così bella quando eri giovane!"
Pensavo "You should been so beatiful when younger!" però suona come "Te saresti dovuta essere così bella quando eri giovane" un pò come una predica.

Vorrei conoscere altri pareri, grazie!


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## Tiggie7384

Ciao Lore86,

Forse:
You would have been so beautiful when you were young/younger!

In senso che quando la ragazza era giovane, lei era bella? E qualcuno voleva dirla.


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## arenas

Lore86 said:


> Hi all!
> 
> Come si potrebbe tradurre "Dovevi essere così bella quando eri giovane!"
> Pensavo "You should been so beatiful when younger!" però suona come "Te saresti dovuta essere così bella quando eri giovane" un pò come una predica.
> 
> Vorrei conoscere altri pareri, grazie!



I'd say:
*You should have been such a beautiful woman when you were young.*
But please wait for natives!!

ps. Attenzione perche' non mi sembra una frase troppo gentile da dire a una signora!!


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## Wade Aznable

arenas said:


> ps. Attenzione perche' non mi sembra una frase troppo gentile da dire a una signora!!


I'd too use it only with the VERY elderly: every _girl_ up to 65 years old would take offense, I'm sure!  

That said, and back to serious, the use of "dovere" in this context is "very italian", and I'm not sure there is a perfect match in english. 
Therefore, I'd take the long route around and say: *I'm sure you were very / so beautiful, when you were young / in your youth / in your youth days*.


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## Blackman

You should think using _must_ instead of _should,_ in this context. Se non vuoi usare una parafrasi, ovviamente.

( Non può essere diversamente, deve per forza essere così ) _dovevi essere bellissima, quando eri giovane_ ( dal momento che sei bella anche da adulta ).


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## Wade Aznable

Blackman said:


> You should think using _must_ instead of _should,_ in this context. Se non vuoi usare una parafrasi, ovviamente.


I completely agree. This is my option too, if we want to stick to "dovere".


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## byrne

Wade Aznable said:


> I completely agree. This is my option too, if we want to stick to "dovere".


 
Me too..

_You must have been (really) very beautiful when you were younger_

perhaps a tad more tactful

_You were undoubtedly very beautiful...._


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## Tiggie7384

Si, per me non sembra come qualcosa da dire a una signora... 

Allora, non capisco com'è possibile da dire qualcuno che "You should have been so beautiful when you were young!" e per questa ragione ho pensato "would have" invece di "should have". Ma se vuoi dire che quando questa signora era giovane che lei non era bella, ma doveva essere bella e corretto scrivere:


> Origanally Posted by *Arenas*
> *You should have been such a beautiful woman when you were young.*


 
and instead if you are saying that you think or assume she was beautiful, my original comments of:



> You would have been so beautiful when you were young/younger!


 
Or *Byrne's*


> _You must have been really/very beautiful when you were younger_


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## Leo57

In my view (for what it's worth) if anyone wanted to say these words to a woman, (me for instance!!!) it would have to mean that "you are beautiful now" (at your great age) so.......you must have been very beautiful when you were young/younger.   Unless it was meant to be a compliment no-one would ever dare say it!    ("must" is the only word to use here.)

song...
you-must-have-been-a-beautiful-baby


Ciao
Leo


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## Blackman

Sarebbe meglio, se vuoi fare un complimento:

_Visto che sei così bella ora, chissà cosa dovevi essere da giovane_....


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Afraid the only possibility is "You must have been so beautiful...". The speaker is interested in communicating that, in HIS opinion, the "heart of the matter" here (YOU/BE BEAUTIFUL) has a rather high probability of being true relative to a point in time/a period of time in the past. The evaluation of the probability, _which takes place in the "here and now" of the speaker_, is expressed by epistemic modal MUST, while reference to pastness is rendered by the Perfect (HAVE + past. part.).
Something  very similar can be seen in the translation of the Italian sentence "Dovevano essere ore che era in piedi...ma il suo trucco era ancora impeccabile". Here again the evaluation is made "now", hence: "She must have been up and going for several hours...". MUST, then, is appropriate for the expression of epistemic modality (hence the exclusion of HAD TO). Speaker thinks "I have reason to believe that for a certain time in the past the two notions YOU and BE UP AND GOING "went together well". No wonder MUST has but one form: firstly, it is not possible to give retroactive orders; secondly, the evaluation concerning the truth value of a certain notion is quite often made "now".


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## Blackman

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Afraid the only possibility is "You must have been so beautiful...". The speaker is interested in communicating that, in HIS opinion, the "heart of the matter" here (YOU/BE BEAUTIFUL) has a rather high probability of being true relative to a point in time/a period of time in the past. The evaluation of the probability, _which takes place in the "here and now" of the speaker_, is expressed by the epistemic modal MUST, while the reference to pastness is rendered by the Perfect (HAVE + past. part.).
> Something very similar we can see in the translation of the Italian sentence "Dovevano essere ore che era in piedi...ma il suo trucco era ancora impeccabile". Here again the evaluation is made "now", hence: "She must have been up and going for several hours...". MUST, then, is appropriate for the expression of epistemic modality (hence the exclusion of HAD TO). Speaker thinks "I have reason to believe that for a certain time in the past the two notions YOU and BE BEAUTIFUL "went together well".


 
 Sembra una bellissima spiegazione, ma non ci ho capito niente.....


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Am really sorry, Blackman. I'll try to be clearer in future. Promised.


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## Blackman

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Am really sorry, Blackman. I'll try to be clearer in future. Promised.


 
Thank you so much. I am really interested in it, anyway.


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## Odysseus54

Anch'io sono per " .. you must have been so beautiful when you were younger ".

As to the reasons why a man should address a woman about her age and her past beauty, I can't even attempt a possible explanation.   I know there would be no profit in talking that way to my mom, my mother-in-law or my wife.


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## Lore86

Ok, vada per "You must have been so beautiful when you were younger ".
Grazie mille, siete stati tutti molto gentili e esaurienti!


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## Leo57

Lore86 said:


> Ok, vada per "You must have been so beautiful when you were younger ".
> Grazie mille, siete stati tutti molto gentili e esaurienti!



I'm a little bit worried about the "so" (beautiful) as it doesn't quite convey the same thing as "very". 
Let's put it this way...."You are beautiful now, (therefore) you must have been even more beautiful or very beautiful when you were younger/as a young woman/girl."   I agree that some would not consider this a compliment but as it is meant to be (a compliment) be very careful with the wording!
Ciao
Leo


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## tranquilspaces

If it's meant to be a compliment I would say,

"I can only imagine how beautiful you must have been when you were  younger."

But wow... why go there... 

I recommend this: "Have you always been this beautiful?"


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## Leo57

tranquilspaces said:


> If it's meant to be a compliment I would say,
> _"I can only imagine how beautiful you must have been when you were  younger."  _
> But wow... why go there...
> I recommend this: "Have you always been this beautiful?"



Much better!

Leo


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## Tiggie7384

Yes I agree with the majority (although initially I did not as I could imagine that you are just being nice) - this kind of compliment really does depend on how old the person is, your relationship with them and maybe even the country they are from and their upbringing.  I would probably say the person needs to be 70 or older for it to work as compliment with no repercussions.

I like tranquilspaces idea 





> "Have you always been this beautiful?"


Or you could also try:
I bet you would have turned a lot of heads in your day!  
(This is inferring that they are still an attractive person, however, still best kept for a slightly older lady.)

If you really want to say: "You must have been so beautiful when you were younger.", you need to say something before or after about how beautiful they still are.

Everyone seems to agree that you are really opening yourself up for a response along the lines of "and what exactly are you trying to say?".  However, given that your mother language is not english, I think you are more likely to receive a response along the lines of "Why thank you."

I also think "so beautiful" is fine, it is different to "very beautiful" but only as to the degree of beauty.


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## Wade Aznable

On a side note about when / how to use it, I'd say that probably it makes more sense if used when talking about a third party. 

Jerome - Even if 40-something, Charlotte is still a beautiful woman. 
Harris - Yes. She must have been very beautiful in her 30s. 
George - Then she got married... 
Montmorency - Woof! Woof!  

(Ok, I sidetracked a little bit!)


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## Tiggie7384

Wade Aznable said:


> On a side note about when / how to use it, I'd say that probably it makes more sense if used when talking about a third party.
> 
> Jerome - Even if 40-something, Charlotte is still a beautiful woman.
> Harris - Yes. She must have been very beautiful in her 30s.
> George - Then she got married...
> Montmorency - Woof! Woof!
> 
> (Ok, I sidetracked a little bit!)


  definitely  - say it someone else, not to the someone!


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## You little ripper!

Leo57 said:


> I'm a little bit worried about the "so" (beautiful) as it doesn't quite convey the same thing as "very".


I don't think 'so' works for 'così' in that sentence either (I keep expecting a 'that' after the 'beautiful'). I prefer 'really' or 'very'.


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## Tiggie7384

Charles Costante said:


> I don't think 'so' works for 'così' in that sentence either (I keep expecting a 'that' after the 'beautiful'). I prefer 'really' or 'very'.


 
Why??? I fail to understand how it does not work... 

You must have been so beautiful when you were younger.
You must have been very beautiful when you were younger.

I can see that there may be a slightly different meaning. Personally I would prefer to hear "so beautiful", because maybe I am still "very beautiful", as opposed to if you tell me I must have been very beautiful, this make me think that you are saying NOW I am no longer "very beautiful".

Also Charles, how can "that" come after "beautiful"?


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## You little ripper!

Tiggie7384 said:


> Also Charles, how can "that" come after "beautiful"?


_You must have been so* beautiful that* you turned heads when you were younger.
__You must have been  so* beautiful that*__ every guy in town was after you when you were younger. 
_
been so beautiful that


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## Tiggie7384

Charles Costante said:


> _You must have been so* beautiful that* you turned heads when you were younger._
> _You must have been so* beautiful that* every guy in town was after you when you were younger. _Fair enough, but these only work because you added extra information, rather than simply saying "you must have been so beautiful when you were younger" I thought you were just saying in the original phrases there needed to be a "that".


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## You little ripper!

> Fair enough, but these only work because you added  extra information,


That's my point, Tiggie;  with 'so' not only do I feel I want to use 'that' after it (so........that), but then it means I need to change the rest of the sentence.


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## Tiggie7384

Ok, point taken!


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## Odysseus54

Charles Costante said:


> That's my point, Tiggie;  with 'so' not only do I feel I want to use 'that' after it (so........that), but then it means I need to change the rest of the sentence.




Theoretically, it could also be a standalone 'so' - imagine yourself holding this older woman's hand and saying to her with dreamy eyes 

" You must have been sooo beautiful when you were younger ... "


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## You little ripper!

Odysseus54 said:


> Theoretically, it could also be a standalone 'so' - imagine yourself holding this older woman's hand and saying to her with dreamy eyes
> 
> " You must have been sooo beautiful when you were younger ... "


And you are sooooo right, Ody! When said like that it does feel comfortable to me.


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## nsartor

Giorgio Spizzi said:


> Afraid the only possibility is "You must have been so beautiful...". The speaker is interested in communicating that, in HIS opinion, the "heart of the matter" here (YOU/BE BEAUTIFUL) has a rather high probability of being true relative to a point in time/a period of time in the past. The evaluation of the probability, _which takes place in the "here and now" of the speaker_, is expressed by epistemic modal MUST, while reference to pastness is rendered by the Perfect (HAVE + past. part.).
> Something  very similar can be seen in the translation of the Italian sentence "Dovevano essere ore che era in piedi...ma il suo trucco era ancora impeccabile". Here again the evaluation is made "now", hence: "She must have been up and going for several hours...". MUST, then, is appropriate for the expression of epistemic modality (hence the exclusion of HAD TO). Speaker thinks "I have reason to believe that for a certain time in the past the two notions YOU and BE UP AND GOING "went together well". No wonder MUST has but one form: firstly, it is not possible to give retroactive orders; secondly, the evaluation concerning the truth value of a certain notion is quite often made "now".





WOW Giorgio.  You must be an English professor.  What the heck is an "epistemic modality?"  My brain hurts just saying it!  

I vote with the crowd - don't even go there unless the lady is 85 or more and then I suggest the version -

"you must have been so (say it sooooo)  beautiful in your day"

Niccolò


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## Einstein

I agree with most of what's been said, but I'm not sure about tranquilspaces' suggestion:


> Have you always been this beautiful?


To my way of thinking, taken literally it suggests that she might have been _less_ beautiful in the past. Non-literally it just sounds like a compliment in the present, without reference to the past.


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