# mei 梅



## raffavita

Hi there,
I'm not sure this is the right place for my question, but after many attempts to find something on the web, I gave up and decided to join this forum.
Actually, I'm trying to understand what "mai" means in Chinese.
I know it's a fruit and I assume it's a plum, but since in Italian "plum" can be translated both as "susina" or "prugna" I really need to understand how this fruit looks like.

Thank you in advance for your help.
Raffuzza


EDIT:
I found this.

On this page, the fruit is described more as an apricot than a plum.


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## samanthalee

The Wikipedia article clearly identifies it as Asian plum. The common plum is "li", not "mei".

The scientific name as given in Wikipedia is _Prunus mume_. Its English name is _Japanese Apricot_


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## avlee

raffavita 
It is even hard for me to tell the difference/nuances between plum, apricot. 
Li and Mei are the same thing in my electronic dictionary. But I doubt it as both of them look different. Then when I looked Janpanese apricot up in the same electronic dictionary, the Chinese word for it is nothing but Mei.


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## kareno999

avlee said:


> raffavita
> It is even hard for me to tell the difference/nuances between plum, apricot.
> Li and Mei are the same thing in my electronic dictionary. But I doubt it as both of them look different. Then when I looked Janpanese apricot up in the same electronic dictionary, the Chinese word for it is nothing but Mei.


you must be kidding right?
Plum, apricot and mei are sooooo different
李(li3)子 plum
杏子 apricot
梅子 Japanese apricot


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## raffavita

Hi everybody,
thank you so much for your help.
Actually, the wiki article explains that, although this fruit is commonly described as a plum, it is closer to an apricot.
In Italian "plum" translates both "prugna" and "susina". That's why I found it difficult to realize which was which.
Anyway, the same article explains that this fruit is called "mei" in Chinese, and "mai" in Vietnamese.
The novel is set in Mongolia.
Eventually, I decided to translate it as "prugne" for one main reason.
The fruit is used in a comparison: a woman's face is described as "ruddy as a mai". If I translated it as "albicocca", it would sound weird to a reader since an apricot is commonly orange and not red.
So, the question was whether to translate it as "prugna" or "susina", but since the latin name is "prunus" I've decided to transate it as "prugna."
Like this, you know?
Thank you very very much!!
Raffuzza


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## AVim

raffavita said:


> The fruit is used in a comparison: a woman's face is described as "ruddy as a mai". If I translated it as "albicocca", it would sound weird to a reader since an apricot is commonly orange and not red.



Hehe... I think the 'Mei' or 'Mai' here means "plum blossom", not the real fruit you are thinking about.  Like:红梅


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## raffavita

Hmmm, do you think so?
I'm inclined to take "mei" as the fruit for one main reason:
the author is describing a woman, and a rotund one.
I find it difficult to understand a comparison between the shape of a woman and that of a flower.
Furthermore, "mei/mai" as a single word exists and means "plum".
Why do you believe the author is referring to a flower?
Thank you very much for your help.


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## Flaminius

But ruddy does not mean the shape.  It's a colour.  I hope my Chinese colleagues would agree that a mei is traditionally a metaphor of beauty, prettiness or being pink.

Using is as a metaphor of being rotund seems rather incongruous to me.


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## Kwunlam

Flaminius said:


> But ruddy does not mean the shape.  It's a colour.  I hope my Chinese colleagues would agree that a mei is traditionally a metaphor of beauty, prettiness or being pink.
> 
> Using is as a metaphor of being rotund seems rather incongruous to me.




I hope I am talking about the same thing and have not misunderstood you all. For me, I would refer 梅 intuitively and always as a flower. 

In Poetry, 梅 mei is most referred to as 梅花, the flower. 
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/zh/thumb/2/2d/Plum_flower_1.JPG/180px-Plum_flower_1.JPG
Cf also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ume

It is praised for its symbolic virtues. For example, it survives the winter and does not succumb (uprightness, perseverence, inner strength, etc.).


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## Mugi

> Its English name is _Japanese Apricot_


Or much more commonly referred to in English as "Japanese _plum_" - although techinically closer to an apricot, it looks like a plum, hence it is almost always referred to as a "plum".


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## Mugi

Raffavita, what language are you translating from, and is that the original or is it a translation itself? If the original is English, then I think you're right, it is probably referring to the fruit itself. But if you are working from a translation from an Asian language, then some of the other posters may be right.


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## raffavita

Flaminius said:


> But ruddy does not mean the shape. It's a colour. I hope my Chinese colleagues would agree that a mei is traditionally a metaphor of beauty, prettiness or being pink.


 
I know what "ruddy" means.  I'm simply quoting the metaphor the author adopts.
She describes the woman as "rotund and ruddy as a mai."
I don't think a rotund ruddy woman would be compared to a flower, but it's only an assumption.
I never said she was beautiful, which she is not. 
As for the author, yes she is English.
What makes the difference?
Would the plump be called differently by an Asian writer? 
The wiki document gives different options for "mai".
It is called "mei/meik and mai."
Thank you so much everybody!!!!


EDIT:
It was my fault not providing further context , and I apologize for that, but I really didn't know that " mai" could mean more than one thing.
I've just read another passage referring to her. Here's how a man describes her:

"Mai is homely-looking, rotund as the plumps she's named after."
So, for the second time, she's described as rotund and eventually compared to the fruit.
Sorry for discovering it right now, but I hadn't read this passage yet and it was not clear at the very beginning.
Thank you very very much again.


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## Flaminius

raffavita said:


> "Mai is homely-looking, rotund as the plumps she's named after."
> So, for the second time, she's described as rotund and eventually compared to the fruit.
> Sorry for discovering it right now, but I hadn't read this passage yet and it was not clear at the very beginning.
> Thank you very very much again.


Okay, the quote itself is the answer you needed.   If there is still room for me to cast my two cents, the word _mei_ alone is ambiguous.  It can both mean the flower and the fruit, of _Prunus mume_.


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## xiaolijie

In the Oriental tradition, if a girl is named as _mei_ or _mai,_ I am in no doubt whatsoever that she is named after the flower (not the fruit, that is).


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## Mugi

> As for the author, yes she is English.
> What makes the difference?
> Would the plump be called differently by an Asian writer?


Because as xiaolijie has mentioned above, if the writer were Asian, the allusion would almost certainly refer to the flower. "Mai is homely-looking, rotund as the plumps she's named after" shows a lack of understanding on the author's part regarding the culture she seems to have set the story in.


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## raffavita

Hmmmm. This sounds like a philological mistake.
Thank you very much for your explanation.

Raffuzza


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