# uctívali ho... jako katolické baroko



## artimedoros49

Ahoj,

In the following sentence, I’m trying to make sense of the above and would appreciate some help, as it’s not at all clear to me. It’s the „_jako katolické baroko“ _that is really confusing me.

_V legendách [sv. Václav] byl vždy považován za zachránce českého národa, *uctívali* *ho* stejně husité *jako katolické baroko.*_

My attempt is: _. In the legends he was always considered to be the saviour of the Czech people. The Hussites likewise worshipped him as a Catholic Baroque._

Thank you


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## Enquiring Mind

Hello arti, more (relevant) context needed. In my opinion this single standalone sentence is not adequate to determine the meaning 100% accurately. It appears to mean "he was venerated both by the Hussites and by the Catholic Baroque (establishment)".


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## artimedoros49

Hi Enquiring Mind,

The text below is the complete endnote to a text I’m trying to translate. As I said in my thread, it was the bit at the end that I was having a problem with.

_Václav byl na konci 10. století prohlášen za svatého a stal se spolu se svou babičkou sv. Ludmilou jedním z prvních našich světců. V legendách byl vždy považován za zachránce českého národa, uctívali ho stejně husité *jako katolické baroko.*_

However, your first suggestion that I received (in email) sounds good to me – „they“ being the „český národ“  _.. they venerated him in the same way as the Hussites venerated the Catholic Baroque culture._

The little word „culture“ made it clear!

Thank you


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## Mori.cze

Hi, the sentence is gramatically slightly unsound*, but Enquiring Mind has the meaning right, "he was venerated both by the Hussites and by Catholics in baroque times later on".

* I believe this particular error can be classified as a zeugma: "uctívali ho husité" joins just fine, but "stejně ho uctívalo baroko" does not work nearly that well and would probably be formulated more clearly if not for the contamination from the first part.


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## Mori.cze

By the way Hussites came before the baroque culture and even if they were aware of it, they would absolutely not approve, so "Hussites venerated Catholics Baroque culture" is a crystallic clear nonsense! (Meaning-wise, the sentence could be interpreted that way)


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## Enquiring Mind

My initial impression (which you received automatically in the e-mail) was *wrong*, arti, for the two reasons Mori.cze notes: "odd" and possibly ambiguous wording, and obvious anachronism - Hussites came before the Baroque, and that's why I deleted it a couple of minutes later. Go with what you see now in #2, and confirmed by Mori.cze.  He was venerated by the Hussites and the Catholic Baroque establishment.


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## artimedoros49

Thank you both for your help, all the more so since the original text seems to have some problems.


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## bibax

"*stejně* ... *jako* ..." is somewhat abbreviated "*stejně tak* ..., *jako(ž) i* ..."

_"... uctívali ho *stejně* husité *jako* katolické baroko." =
"... uctívali ho *stejně tak* husité, *jako i* katolické baroko."_

Použití zejména při překladu latinské dvojice "*tam* ..., *quam* ...":

_"... *tam* ipse Rex Scotiae, *quam* ceteri, episcopi, praelati, comites, barones, magnates, proceres, et singuli homines de Scotia, ..."

"... *stejně tak* skotský král, *jakož i* ostatní, biskupové, preláti, hrabata, baroni, ..., a jednotliví (ostatní) lidé ve Skotsku, ..."

"..., immo *tam* Rex *quam* miles,* tam* Parens *quam* filius in fugam coniecti gloriosam hostibus reliquerunt victoriam."

"..., ba dokonce stejně král jako vojín, stejně otec jako syn ..."
"..., ba dokonce stejně král jako i vojín, stejně otec jako i syn ..."
"..., ba dokonce stejně tak král jakož i vojín, stejně tak otec jakož i syn ..."_


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## Enquiring Mind

Gratias vobis ago, bibax! I could feel that there was something "fishy" (páchnoucí kaprem  ) about the syntax in the last part, but couldn't quite put my finger on it. It required the mathematical precision of a Latin-trained intellect to explain it! Natale hilare et annum faustum!


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## bibax

Felicem nativitatem et prosperum annum novum tibi atque vobis omnibus!
_(až do středověku se každému bez rozdílu tykalo )_

V Perseu u hesla tam (souvztažné/correlative s quam) stojí:

".... — This construction passes into mere co - ordination: tam vera quam falsa cernimus, *as well ... as*, almost = *both ... and*;"
_(tj. as well ... as, téměř se rovná both ... and)_

Šlo by tedy v angličtině napsat: "he was venerated as well by the Hussites as by the Catholic Baroque (establishment)" místo "he was venerated both by the Hussites and by the Catholic Baroque (establishment)".

V češtině to nezní úplně stejně.


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## artimedoros49

Little did I think that I would have to dust off my Kennedy's Revised Latin Primer!
Thank you.


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