# Persian: تا ایشان



## James Bates

I came across the following sentence in the book الفوز الکبیر فی اصول التفسیر by Shah Waliullah:

آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم قرآن را تلقین فرمود بہ قرن اوّل تا ایشان بہ قرن ثانی رسانیدند وھکذا وھکذا، تا آنکہ این درماندہ را نیز از روایت ودرایت آن حصہ رسید۔

What exactly does this mean? I'm guessing "The Prophet (Muhammad) explained the Qur'an to the first generation until they delivered it to the second generation, and so and so forth until it this destitute person too received that part (آن حصہ) of riwayat and dirayat (two types of knowledge)."

Here's the complete context:

نعم الھی دربارہ این بندہ ضعیف بی شمار اند واجل آنھا توفیق فھم قرآن عظیم ست ومنن حضرت رسالت پناہ علیہ الصلوة والسلام بر کمترین امتیان بسیار اند واعظم آنھا تبلیغ فرقان کریم ست، آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم قرآن را تلقین فرمود بہ قرن اوّل تا ایشان بہ قرن ثانی رسانیدند وھکذا وھکذا، تا آنکہ این درماندہ را نیز از روایت ودرایت آن حصہ رسید۔

Could a native speaker help me out here?


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## Stranger_

آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم قرآن را تلقین فرمود بہ قرن اوّل تا ایشان بہ قرن ثانی رسانیدند وھکذا وھکذا، *تا آنکہ این درماندہ را نیز از روایت ودرایتِ آن حصہ رسید*۔

"The Prophet (Muhammad) explained the Qur'an to the first generation until they delivered it to the second generation, and so and so forth * until I too received a drop (a tiny amount) of its riwayat and dirayat* *(of that knowledge)*"

But it should have been "حصه ای" not "حصه".

You can translate "این درمانده را" as a humble way of saying "mujhe" in Urdu.

"taa aanki mujhe bhii us riwaayat o diraayat se ek hissa milaa"

Hope it is clear now.

I do not think you have a problem with "تا ایشان" which you have understood and translated correctly, do you? maybe you put it in the title by mistake.


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## eskandar

Stranger_ said:


> You can translate "این درمانده را" as a humble way of saying "mujhe" in Urdu.
> 
> "taa aanki mujhe bhii us riwaayat o diraayat se ek hissa milaa"


If you want an even more closely idiomatic equivalent, you can translate it as _is naachiiz ko_ in Urdu.


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## James Bates

Thank you both!


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## James Bates

Stranger_ said:


> آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم قرآن را تلقین فرمود بہ قرن اوّل تا ایشان بہ قرن ثانی رسانیدند وھکذا وھکذا، *تا آنکہ این درماندہ را نیز از روایت ودرایتِ آن حصہ رسید*۔
> 
> "The Prophet (Muhammad) explained the Qur'an to the first generation until they delivered it to the second generation, and so and so forth * until I too received a drop (a tiny amount) of its riwayat and dirayat* *(of that knowledge)*"
> 
> But it should have been "حصه ای" not "حصه".
> 
> You can translate "این درمانده را" as a humble way of saying "mujhe" in Urdu.
> 
> "taa aanki mujhe bhii us riwaayat o diraayat se ek hissa milaa"
> 
> Hope it is clear now.
> 
> I do not think you have a problem with "تا ایشان" which you have understood and translated correctly, do you? maybe you put it in the title by mistake.



Yes, you're right.


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## Stranger_

> If you want an even more closely idiomatic equivalent, you can translate it as _is naachiiz ko_ in Urdu.


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## Jamshed Aslam

Stranger_ said:


> آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم قرآن را تلقین فرمود بہ قرن اوّل تا ایشان بہ قرن ثانی رسانیدند وھکذا وھکذا، *تا آنکہ این درماندہ را نیز از روایت ودرایتِ آن حصہ رسید*۔
> 
> "The Prophet (Muhammad) explained the Qur'an to the first generation until they delivered it to the second generation, and so and so forth * until I too received a drop (a tiny amount) of its riwayat and dirayat* *(of that knowledge)*"



So riwayat and dirayat are synonyms, both meaning "knowledge"?


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## soheil1

Jamshed Aslam said:


> So riwayat and dirayat are synonyms, both meaning "knowledge"?


No. درایت means intellect.
روایت means 'anecdote'


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## fdb

In this context رواية means “transmission of the Qur’anic text” and دراية means “knowledge of its meaning”.


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## soheil1

No. درایت means intellect.
روایت means 'anecdote'


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## colognial

I take the word قرن to mean 'century', so that according to the text, the Prophet taught the holy book in the first century, rather than "to the first generation".


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## James Bates

fdb said:


> In this context رواية means “transmission of the Qur’anic text” and دراية means “knowledge of its meaning”.



What makes you say that?


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## fdb

James Bates said:


> What makes you say that?



 Maybe 50 years of reading classical Arabic and Persian texts helps. But there are also such things as dictionaries.


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## James Bates

Well, I'll be!


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> I take the word قرن to mean 'century'


Why/how is قرن being interpreted as 'generation' here please? I can't find that meaning of it, in usual dictionaries. Thank you.


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## colognial

PersoLatin said:


> Why/how is قرن being interpreted as 'generation' here please? I can't find that meaning of it, in usual dictionaries. Thank you.



The word 'generation' must have just crept into the interpretation. My point, too, is that there doesn't seem to be a reference to "the first generation" in the original text.


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