# 我才不要



## viajero_canjeado

Hi forumers,

The tsai2 in this clause is what's throwing me for a loop. Here's the context:

Person A: Do you want to go out again tomorrow?
Person B: No, I'd better not. My mom wants me to spend some time with the family. If I go out with you every night, my mom will start to resent you.. and that's no good. 我才不要.

Is the tsai2 here like saying: "suo3 yi3 wo3 bu2 yao4"? Something like "for that reason, i'd rather not"?

You see, I understand the meaning of the sentence overall, it means 我不要.. but what nuance or shade of meaning does the tsai2 contribute?

Thanks!


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## Ghabi

For example: 

-你真聰明！ (How clever you are!)
-不,你才是聰明。(No, it's you who's clever.)

So when you say "我才不要", it's like "it's you who want it!", "I don't know about you, but I certainly don't want it!"


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## vincentLi

“才”有强调与前文内容相同或相反意义的作用，后面一般会加一个语气词“呢”（interj）。
你吃吗？
我不吃（我才不吃呢）
你走吗？
我不走（我才不走呢）
不一定用于否定句中，肯定句也可以。
这个好吃。（这个才好吃呢！）

另外也可以用于两者或多者的比较：
这个人真高！（那个人才高呢！）
你真厉害！（他才厉害呢！）


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## viajero_canjeado

Okay, so tsai2 can function as an intensifier and as an indicator of difference. So, like in the original sentence, the meaning is best translated along these lines:

_I_ sure don't want that.
As for me, that's not what I want. (which is much like Ghabi's "i don't know about you, but.." - great translation!

But then there's another similar but vastly different phrase: "I _sure_ don't want that." In this sentence, the speaker isn't implying that the dui4 fang1 does want the negative consequence, but is rather emphasizing his or her own aversion toward the hypothetical negative situation.

Does the tsai2 here necessarily imply that the speaker assumes the other person feels differently? Or is it simply like a reinforced wo3 bu2 yao4?


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## YangMuye

才作副詞時，有幾個用法。我覺得你的例子語境仍不明確。它可能是表原因（正是因爲如此），也可能只是強調。

例句括號裡是我补上，但口語通常省去的。

*用法1：只、僅僅（just, only）*
例1：很便宜，才三塊錢。

例2：你（剛剛）才回來，又要出去？
例3：我（剛剛）才吃過飯。
（例2例3也可看作用法2。）

*用法2：或只在特定情況（then;then and only then）。常常隱含了“只有”“正是”(only when, just when)，當其它情況時不。*
例4：（正是因爲）怕你着急，我才回來。
例5：（只有）十個人不夠，再加幾個才夠。
例6：你（只有到）（這麼晚/現在）才來？（早點時候不來。）（不能早點來？）

*用法3：肯定句時強調。常用 “才XXX呢！”的句式。暗示“其他的都不XXX”。*
例7：這才好呢！（其它的都不如這個好。）
例8：這點錢，我才不要呢！（你想要，你自己去要。）
例9：這才是男人！（你們都不是男人。男人就該這樣才對。）

由此可見，“才”字有“only” "just"的意思，而且強烈排斥“才”之前的事物以外的同類事物。
比如：
例3 之前沒吃過。
例4 如果不怕你不着急，我就不用回來了。
例5 不加幾個就不夠。
例6 你不到這麼晚就不會來。
例7 除了這，其它都不（如這個）好。
例8 除了我，其它人要不要，與我無關。
。。。

順便說一句，當用法3通常用於否定句時，帶有強烈的主觀感情。如果主語是自己，*有不顧及別人感受的意思*。可能會被認爲是“*撒嬌*”、“*娘娘腔*”。最經典的就是這句“我才不要呢”。這時候，它的作用相當於“我就是不想要XXX”，不必要求隱含的“您想要，您可以自已去XXX”也一定符合邏輯。


I can translate it into English you if find it hard to read my post, 
BTW, could you tell me how to express the the examples in English?


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## Tsingtao

No, I'd better not. --- 最好还是不要了


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## viajero_canjeado

Yang Muye, wow, thanks for the in-depth reply. I'm still no expert with tsai2, but I'll give a shot at translating your examples.

例1：很便宜，才三塊錢。 Real cheap; just three bucks. "Only" works fine here as well.
例2：你（剛剛）才回來，又要出去？ You just (now) got back, and you're about to/getting ready to leave/go out again?
例3：我（剛剛）才吃過飯。 Um.. I'm not too sure about this one. I'm guessing it's something like "I just finished eating."
例4：（正是因爲）怕你着急，我才回來。Yeah.. I don't really understand this sentence.
例5：（只有）十個人不夠，再加幾個才夠。Ten people won't be/isn't enough. You'll need at least a few more/You'll have to have (or add) a couple more [at least].
例6：你（只有到）（這麼晚/現在）才來？（早點時候不來。）（不能早點來？）Now, if this is a present event, I can see a parent saying something reproving like: What are you thinking coming back at this time/coming back this late?? But if it's after the fact: "You came back _when_?" Or, "[Why] Did you have to come back so late?"
例7：這才好呢！（其它的都不如這個好。） [Now] _this_ is a good one!
例8：這點錢，我才不要呢！（你想要，你自己去要。） That much money.. _I_ sure wouldn't want to pay it!
例9：這才是男人！（你們都不是男人。男人就該這樣才對。） [Now] _that's_ a [real] man!

The stuff I put in brackets is optional, but seems to make the sentences sound more colloquial. The slashes are meant to provide you with different options that don't, in my opinion, change the meaning of the sentences. The words I put in italics are meant to correspond to the intonation in spoken English. The emphasis on those words is important to properly convey the intended meaning.

Hope that helps!


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## BODYholic

Tsingtao said:


> No, I'd better not. --- 最好还是不要了



I like this. Concise and to the point.


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## Ghabi

There're many meanings for 才, let's stick to the one asked in this thread (it'd be a super big topic otherwise).

I think there's an implicit or explicit contrast between the speaker and other people when we say 才. For example, you buddy has got some X-rated movies and invite you to watch together:

-難得的好東西，一起看吧！(Great stuff! Let's watch together.)
-我才不看呢，你自己慢慢欣賞吧！(Enjoy, but not with me!)


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## viajero_canjeado

終於可以用中文啊！那我還有個句子, 想知道它＂才＂用的方法是不是跟當初的句子的一樣．
"你今天講得我才真正理解."
還是在這裡才的意思就是＂in order to" 嗎?

翻譯的選項: 1)What you said today helped me fully/really understand. 2) It took what you said today for me to truly understand. 3)It wasn't until hearing what you said today that I fully understood. 4) 你們的建議...

我看不到這個才有上面提的意思 (Like the example Ghabi gave, "You can watch those movies, but as for me, I sure won't!")

這個字真的很會困惑我了..


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## YangMuye

> 例4：（正是因爲）怕你着急，我才回來。Yeah.. I don't really understand this sentence.  這句話語境不明確。我原意是想說：如果我不回來（比如因爲工作忙），你會爲我擔心。所以我回來了。
> 例6：你（只有到）（這麼晚/現在）才來？（早點時候不來。）（不能早點來？）Now, if this is a present event, I can see a parent saying something reproving like: What are you thinking coming back at this time/coming back this late?? But if it's after the fact: "You came back when?" Or, "[Why] Did you have to come back so late?" 這句話通常是抱怨別人回來晚了。
> 例8：這點錢，我才不要呢！（你想要，你自己去要。） That much money.. I sure wouldn't want to pay it!  這句話通常是當有人想出很少的報酬收買你時，你可以這樣說，改成“我才不在乎呢”會明確一點。另外我不太理解“want to pay it”，是俗語嗎？





> "你今天講得我才真正理解."
> 翻譯的選項: 1)What you said today helped me fully/really understand. 2) It took what you said today for me to truly understand. 3)It wasn't until hearing what you said today that I fully understood. 4) 你們的建議...


選3)吧。這句的意思是“除了今天講的，我都不理解。”“前幾天講的我都不理解。”
“真正”在這裡只是緩合語氣，避免直接的批評對方。試想“前幾天講的，我也理解了，但今天 才真正理解。”其實還是不理解。不過聽話人會聽成“你前幾天講得很好。今天講的最好。”感覺比“你前幾天講得爛透了，今天湊合。”中聽多了。

這里“才”歸在用法1 2 3都可以。其實才的本義“方”“當”“恰”都有“在特定的情況下”的成分。既然“在特定的情況下”，自然要排除其他情況。用法1 “僅”“只”大概是“才”的引伸意吧。從甲骨文上看，才是“草木*剛*發芽的樣子。”




> 我看不到這個才有上面提的意思 (Like the example Ghabi gave, "You can watch those movies, but as for me, I sure won't!")


“這個才”是指“你今天講得我才真正理解.”中的才，還是“Like the example Ghabi gave”中的才？上面提的意思是指？


第2) It took what you said today for me to truly understand.我沒怎麼看慬。能請教一下中文意思嗎？


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## windhair

viajero_canjeado said:


> 終於可以用中文啊！那我還有個句子, 想知道它＂才＂用的方法是不是跟當初的句子的一樣．
> "你今天講得我才真正理解."
> 還是在這裡才的意思就是＂in order to" 嗎?
> 
> 翻譯的選項: 1)What you said today helped me fully/really understand. 2) It took what you said today for me to truly understand. 3)It wasn't until hearing what you said today that I fully understood. 4) 你們的建議...
> 
> 我看不到這個才有上面提的意思 (Like the example Ghabi gave, "You can watch those movies, but as for me, I sure won't!")
> 
> 這個字真的很會困惑我了..



A little bit complex. I will try to explain it.
"你今天講得我才真正理解." 
here "才" has the meaning near "in order to", but I prefer to translate it to "just when, only when" as in yang's first reply.
And the position of "才" will show the point you want to emphasize. Let's also pay attention to the word "得" before "才", it is a an abv for the verb "講", which means the sentence want to express the feeling that "Only the teaching method/activity/work today make me really understand."

If it is "的" rather than "得", it will be the "objective" of verb "講", which will change the meaning of the sentence a little bit, "only what you told me today, make me really understand"

Hope what I'm saying it clear enough.


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## YangMuye

windhair said:


> A little bit complex. I will try to explain it.
> "你今天講得我才真正理解."
> here "才" has the meaning near "in order to", but I prefer to translate it to "just when, only when" as in yang's first reply.


“才”本身是沒有in order to的意思。但因爲它*限制了事件發生的條件*，所以根據需要，可能翻譯成have to, must, in order to, so that...等等。


> And the position of "才" will show the point you want to emphasize. Let's also pay attention to the word "得" before "才", it is a an abv for the verb "講", which means the sentence want to express the feeling that "Only the teaching method/activity/work today make me really understand."
> 
> If it is "的" rather than "得", it will be the "objective" of verb "講", which will change the meaning of the sentence a little bit, "only what you told me today, make me really understand"
> 
> Hope what I'm saying it clear enough.




真沒有注意到“得”字。“得”字是補語的標識。補語就是補充說明一個動作的結果、影響、方向等等信息的。
比如“走到家”“還給你”等等。這些短語可以看成兩個動作同時或先後發生（走、到家；還、給你），兩個動作*互相補充*。
“得”字也是最常用的補語助動詞之一。作爲謂語動詞時，它就是“得到”的意思，強調結果。作爲補語助動詞時，它表示動作的程度（也就是結果）。所以“講得我聽慬”就是：“講”到“我能聽慬”的程度，或者，“講”的結果是“我聽慬”。是不是翻譯成in order to我就不清楚了。我學英文時，in order to是表示“目的”的，帶有某种動機。“得”只是“由原因導致結果”，類似於to或lead to。
如果是祈使句，比如“請講得大聲一點。”，“得”是可以翻成in order to。但如果是陳述句，比如“他講得很大聲。”就不能翻成in order to了。

所以，“你今天講*得*我才真正理解.”，我是看成了“你今天講*的*我才真正理解。”。“你今天講的” 就是 “what you told me today”，也是“才”所排除的情況。
I don't understand anything, except what you taught me today.”

如果用得，“你今天講*得*我才真正理解。”，那麼“我才真正理解”是“得”的從句，“才”缺少排除的情況，其用途就得難解釋了。
如果用“得”，我會說“你今天*才*講得我真正理解。”。言外之意，“前幾天”都講得“我不太理解”。
這樣意思就變了。原本“你今天講的我才真正理解。”是說我不理解，只是委婉的提醒別人，我不理解的原因可能是你講得不好；或者抱怨自己太笨。現在說“你今天*才*講得我真正理解。”，用了“得”了之後，變成了“沒有讓我理解”，等於直接責怪別人*講得*不好。


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## avle

This is a fixed sentence pattern according to Xinhua Chinese Dictionary.
才〖+不〗+verb+呢。肯定句少用。如:我才不去呢!
It is used under some circumstance to express the speakers feeling.
Less employed in an affirmative sentence.
In other words, tsai2 here means indeed.


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## indigoduck

viajero_canjeado said:


> Yang Muye, wow, thanks for the in-depth reply. I'm still no expert with tsai2, but I'll give a shot at translating your examples.
> 
> 例3：我（剛剛）才吃過飯。 Um.. I'm not too sure about this one. I'm guessing it's something like "I just finished eating."


 
Bravo !

Emphasis on the "just"
It's a response to a question... "You want to eat ?"

我才吃過飯 = i just ate
我剛剛才吃過飯 = i just ate recently (adding time factor to emphasize the "just")



viajero_canjeado said:


> 例4：（正是因爲）怕你着急，我才回來。Yeah.. I don't really understand this sentence.


 
Literally: "(For the sole reason that) I'm afraid you'll worry, so i returned."
The "so" in "so i returned" has indications of "only because you'd worry"

In natural english: "I only came back because you'd worry"



viajero_canjeado said:


> 例5：（只有）十個人不夠，再加幾個才夠。Ten people won't be/isn't enough. You'll need at least a few more/You'll have to have (or add) a couple more [at least].


 
(Only) 10 people is not be enough, you'll need to add 10 more for it to be enough

才 (夠) = In order for it... (to be enough)
才 (好) = In order for it... (to be good)



viajero_canjeado said:


> 例6：你（只有到）（這麼晚/現在）才來？（早點時候不來。）（不能早點來？）Now, if this is a present event, I can see a parent saying something reproving like: What are you thinking coming back at this time/coming back this late?? But if it's after the fact: "You came back _when_?" Or, "[Why] Did you have to come back so late?"


你（只有到）（這麼晚/現在）才來？

Literally: You (only wait until) (it's so late/now), (and only then) you come ?

In natural english: 

這麼晚: Did you have to wait until it's so late before actually coming ?
現在: Did you have to wait until now before actually coming ?

The "now" in 現在 has the feeling of "i waited forever for this now"


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