# Levantine/Egyptian Arabic: Please cross your arms



## Philgood87

I'm a beginning to study Arabic, and I was hoping I might get a few opportunities to use Arabic at my job. I have a few basic phrases, which I've translated, using google translate. I would be very grateful if someone could confirm, correct, or expand upon these translations. Much obliged in advance! (Preferably in Levantine Arabic.)

"Please cross your arms."

يرجى عبور ذراعيك

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## elroy

Welcome to the forum, and welcome to Arabic!

Google Translate doesn't do dialects, only Modern Standard Arabic.  And in this case, the translation is woefully wrong.

Palestinian Arabic: 

كتّف إيديك لو سمحت (to a single male)
كتّفي إيديكي لو سمحتي (to a single female)
كتّفوا إيديكم لو سمحتوا (to a group)


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## Sun-Shine

Is this idiomatic كتف ايديك ?
Why would someone say this?


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## elroy

Yes, it's idiomatic.  Teachers say this to children all the time in Palestine.  Is this not the case in Egypt?


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## Sun-Shine

Can you tell me what exactly this mean in Palestine?


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## elroy

It means "cross your arms" (which is this action).  That's why I gave it as a translation.


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> It means "cross your arms"


Really helpful.    
I didn't hear كتف ايديك used to mean this.
 (maybe it's used but I didn't hear it).
كتّف ايده/ ايديه تعني :أن توثق ربط يديه وتضعهما خلف ظهر الشخص كي تمنعه من استخدامهما

I think this means (in MSA) : يشبك ذراعيه/ يعقد ذراعيه ??


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## elroy

sun_shine 331995 said:


> I didn't hear كتف ايديك used to mean this.
> (maybe it's used but I didn't hear it).


 This is what's used in Palestinian Arabic.  I don't know if it's used in other Levantine dialects.


sun_shine 331995 said:


> كتّف ايده/ ايديه تعني :أن توثق ربط يديه وتضعهما خلف ظهر الشخص كي تمنعه من استخدامهما


 In Egypt?


sun_shine 331995 said:


> I think this means (in MSA) : يشبك ذراعيه/ يعقد ذراعيه ??


 Maybe, if the meaning is clear.  I've personally never come across any MSA phrase for this.


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> In Egypt?


Yes, كَتِّف ايده/ايديه (imperative)


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## elroy

Interesting!  Another false friend. 

So how would you say "cross your arms" in Egyptian?


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## Sun-Shine

I don't know if we can use كتف ايديك to mean "cross your arms". It seems strange to me. 
Nothing else in my mind.


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## cherine

In Egyptian Arabic, we say rabba3 رَبَّع إيديك or ربّع إيدك for cross your arms.

The verb kattef and the noun taktiif تكتيف means to tie (up), for example when people catch a thief بِيْكَتِّفوه they tie him up.


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## Sun-Shine

cherine said:


> In Egyptian Arabic, we say rabba3 رَبَّع إيديك or ربّع إيدك for cross your arms.


How could I forget this?


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## cherine

عادي. بتحصل


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## Philgood87

cherine said:


> In Egyptian Arabic, we say rabba3 رَبَّع إيديك or ربّع إيدك for cross your arms.
> 
> The verb kattef and the noun taktiif تكتيف means to tie (up), for example when people catch a thief بِيْكَتِّفوه they tie him up.


I'm curious why google translate would infer that رَبَّع إيديك meant- "A quarter of your hands"?- is this a idiom in Egypt? If so, what does "رَبَّع " and " إيديك" mean separately? Idiom usually DO make sense.


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## Sun-Shine

Philgood87 said:


> I'm curious why google translate would infer that رَبَّع إيديك meant- "A quarter of your hands"?


Because there's the word رُبْع which means "a quarter" and إيديك is "your hands.


> is this a idiom in Egypt? If so, what does "رَبَّع " and " إيديك" mean separately?


Yes.
إيديك means" your hands".
ربَّع ,here means "flex" (when you flex your arms they became four (two arms and two forearms) and so with the legs ).


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## elroy

sun_shine 331995 said:


> ربَّع ,here means "flex"


 No, "flex" means something else.


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> No, "flex" means something else.


Doesn't flex mean يثني, too?


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## elroy

No, it doesn't -- at least not in this context, and I can't think of any other context in which it would.


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## Sun-Shine

Then what does يثني mean?
ربَّع : ثنى


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## elroy

You could say "*bend* your arms (at the elbow)," but I'm not sure that's a helpful way to explain it.  ربّع literally means "quadruple"; it doesn't literally mean "bend."  As you explained, it's about "turning your two arms into four."


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## Philgood87

sun_shine 331995 said:


> Because there's the word رُبْع which means "a quarter" and إيديك is "your hands.
> 
> Yes.
> إيديك means" your hands".
> ربَّع ,here means "flex" (when you flex your arms they became four (two arms and two forearms) and so with the legs ).



Actually, I was thinking about it last night. "Quarter", in this context, probably means "a safe place". To take "quarter", or put something in a safe place.
The image made me laugh, when I realized what Cherine meant.


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## cherine

Philgood87 said:


> Actually, I was thinking about it last night. "Quarter", in this context, probably means "a safe place". To take "quarter", or put something in a safe place.


That's the meaning of quarter in English, but it doesn't work for the Arabic ربع which just means 1 part of 4.

I believe تربيع comes from مُرَبَّع (square) not رُبع because when arms are crossed they form a quadrilateral(?) shape.


> The image made me laugh, when I realized what Cherine meant.


I'm afraid I don't understand what you mean. But I'm glad you saw something that made you laugh.


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## wriight

Also, you've gotta distinguish the noun رُبع _rub3_ from the verb رَبَّع _rabba3._ Google Translate can't tell the difference because it doesn't look at the 7arakaat (diacritical short-vowel/gemination markings), so it reads ربع and interprets it as رُبع, but they're different words. The verb ربّع doesn't necessarily have to do with quartering.


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## elroy

wriight said:


> The verb ربّع doesn't necessarily have to do with quartering.


 Can you elaborate?


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## wriight

It seemed like Philgood was extrapolating from Google Translate's "one quarter of your hands" to try and define *رَبّع* إيديك as well. I meant that while رُبع إيديك does mean "a quarter of your hands" (as 'correctly' understood by Google Translate), this doesn't necessarily imply that رَبّع إيديك is a command to "quarter your hands" or that ربّع means something like "to quarter".


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## elroy

Ah, I see.  Well, _literally_ it does mean something like that.


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## barkoosh

cherine said:


> In Egyptian Arabic, we say rabba3 رَبَّع إيديك or ربّع إيدك for cross your arms.
> 
> The verb kattef and the noun taktiif تكتيف means to tie (up), for example when people catch a thief بِيْكَتِّفوه they tie him up.


In Lebanon we say, in a figurative sense, that someone وقف مكتوف اليدين to say that he did nothing although he has the power to do something about the situation. Is وقف مكتوف اليدين used in Egyptian Arabic? If yes, does it mean instead that he did nothing because he's incapable of doing anything?


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## Ghabi

^In fuS7a one does use مكتوف الايدي "crossed-armed" idiomatically to mean "sit by and do nothing (to help)". So it's also used in colloquial!


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## elroy

I understood barkoosh to be saying that وقف مكتوف اليدين is used in MSA in Lebanon.  I think I've only come across this idiomatic usage in MSA.


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## momai

In Syria it's only *تكتف*. Please cross your arms would be translated as following:* تكتف اذا ممكن.*


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## cherine

barkoosh said:


> In Lebanon we say, in a figurative sense, that someone وقف مكتوف اليدين to say that he did nothing although he has the power to do something about the situation. Is وقف مكتوف اليدين used in Egyptian Arabic? If yes, does it mean instead that he did nothing because he's incapable of doing anything?


We only use it in FuS7a.
If we say كانت إيده مِتْكَتِّفة it would mean that "his hands were tied": he didn't have the power to act.


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## barkoosh

cherine said:


> We only use it in FuS7a.
> If we say كانت إيده مِتْكَتِّفة it would mean that "his hands were tied": he didn't have the power to act.


Interesting. Thanks.


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## Philgood87

Ghabi said:


> ^In fuS7a one does use مكتوف الايدي "crossed-armed" idiomatically to mean "sit by and do nothing (to help)". So it's also used in colloquial!



Would you write, "الايدي", phonetically, using, the english alphabet? Google Translates "الايدي" as "al'aydi". My concern, however, is that there may be some context clues missing from "الايدي" i.e diacritical marks, which are missing, because it is common to leave them out in "casual" modern standard Arabic. The most sensible way to pronounce "الايدي", by my estimation, is "al-AY-di. Am i correct?


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## elroy

Yes, it's _alʾaydi_.  ʾ = glottal stop 

(However, in the phrase مكتوف الأيدي, it's _maktūfu 'lʾaydi_; the "a" of the definite article is elided.)


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## Philgood87

elroy said:


> Yes, it's _alʾaydi_.  ʾ = glottal stop
> 
> (However, in the phrase مكتوف الأيدي, it's _maktūfu 'lʾaydi_; the "a" of the definite article is elided.)



'preciate you!


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