# buiten westen



## JimboFr

Hij heeft iemand buiten wister geslagen.

He knocked someone out/over?

Bedankt


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## Suehil

It should be 'buiten westen', which means 'unconscious'.  So yes, 'he knocked someone out'


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## JimboFr

Thanks Sue... from "Alles is Liefde" again...


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## Arrius

*buiten westen slagen* here I take to mean literally _to knock out of the west_ or possibly _to strike from out of the west_.  We have in BE the expresson _he's/it's gone west _meaning that someone or something is dead, ruined, finished. Presumably, this derives from the idea of propectors and settlers disappearing into the American West never to be seen again, though I doubt if the Americans themselves use the expression. But I don't see how this could link up with the Dutch expression, or think of any plausible explanation for it, unless it refers to the prevailing and often very strong winds from the west that affect navigation in the North Sea and Channel.
Any explanation would also be welcome and understood in Dutch.


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## Joannes

It is a naval etymology. From the WNT:


> _Buiten westen zijn_, _worden_, _raken_, buiten zinnen, buiten zichzelf, in de war, buiten bewustzijn zijn e.d. Afgeleid van de eig. bet.: bij onzekerheid van bestek in westelijke richting ver uit den koers zijn (zie J. STEENDAM in _De Zee_ 1922, 619/620). Vgl. de zinverwante uitdrukkingen _van de kaart, van streek, den koers kwijt zijn_. Zie voor een andere minder waarschijnlijke verklaring (waar _west_ in verband wordt gebracht met mnl. _wist_ = ‘kennis’) _Taal en Lett_. 6, 232 e.v. [1896].


Let me point out that *buiten westen* is nowadays only used for the idea of unconsciousness, not for being drunk, or lost (physically nor mentally), etc.


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## Lopes

Joannes said:


> or lost (physically nor mentally), etc.


 
For that we have "het noorden kwijt zijn"


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## ThomasK

"Het noorden kwijt zijn" is not being drunk though. I think you could explain it as having lost one's orientation (orient !). 
I cannot imagine though that "het westen" refers to the US though. K. Ter Laan refers to sailing: having got out of direction when sailing along the Dutch coast would mean that you end up in the West, too far away from the coast.That seems more plausible to me.


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## Arrius

ThomasK said:


> "Het noorden kwijt zijn" is not being drunk though. I think you could explain it as having lost one's orientation (orient !).
> I cannot imagine though that "het westen" refers to the US though. K. Ter Laan refers to sailing: having got out of direction when sailing along the Dutch coast would mean that you end up in the West, too far away from the coast.That seems more plausible to me.


 
Modern French slang, as you presumably know, also has _être à l'ouest_ (lit. to be in the west) meaning to have a completely wrong conception of things, or to be old-fashioned or even mad, and _perdre le nord_ (lit. to lose the north) is used in a similar fashion, and also means to make erratic decisions. However Spanish _perder el norte_ (also. lose the north) is applied to people in a stunned or semi-comatose state, though not entirely unconscious, e.g. in a drug-induced trance, and like *Het noorden kwijt zijn, *just to be confused and disorientated.


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## Lopes

ThomasK said:


> "Het noorden kwijt zijn" is not being drunk though.



That's why I only quoted 'lost'..


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## JimboFr

ThomasK said:


> "Het noorden kwijt zijn" is not being drunk though. I think you could explain it as having lost one's orientation.


 

In English you could say "to lose the plot"


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