# Jo: Baptista Ceruti Cremonensis fecit Cremona An. 1804



## quark1111

Hello,

I am trying to translate a label inside an old violin I inherited from my Grandfather. I thought the writing might be in Italian or Latin, but when I enter the entire phrase (or individual words) into the on-line translators I have found on the Web, nothing seems to translate. I am trying to answer the following two questions:
1. What language is this?
2. What is the meaning of the phrase?

Here is what the label says:
Jo: Baptista Ceruti Cremonensis fecit Cremona An. 1804
Many thanks, my friends!

Quark


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## DrWatson

Hi,

About the meaning I can't say but I'm 99% confident it's Latin.


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## quark1111

Thank you...  Yes, I agree it is probably Latin...  I've tried sevearl on-line Latin translators, but can not find even one of the words in the phrase which will translate into English...

Any help anyone could give on the actual Latin to English translation would be appreciated.

Thanks!


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## Flaminius

> Jo: Baptista Ceruti Cremonensis fecit Cremona An. 1804



?: Baptista Ceruti, a Cremona citizen, made [this] in Cremona Year 1804.

I don't know what "jo" means in Latin but the rest is clear-cut.


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## judkinsc

It means...

_Upon the baptism of Cerutus of Cremona, made at Cremona in the Year 1804.

_It's a dedication.

Cerutus, whatever that translates into as an Italian name...is the one who was baptised, and the one to whom the violon was dedicated.


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## DrWatson

I think it's the name of the violin's maker. There has been a violin maker named Giovanni Baptista Ceruti (1787-1860) living in the city of Cremona.


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## quark1111

Thanks to everyone who replied!  I am in your debt!


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## jazyk

> ?: Baptista Ceruti, a Cremona citizen, made [this] in Cremona Year 1804.
> 
> I don't know what "jo" means in Latin but the rest is clear-cut.


 

I don't think it's upon his baptism, that could be rendered as: in baptismo, in baptismate.


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## judkinsc

The word _baptista_ is: "baptiser."

With the information that Ceruti of Cremona was a violin maker, and this being a violin, it would seem then...that it was a gift to the baptiser of "Ceruti's son/daughter?"

"Jo:" could be the abbreviation of the name of the baptiser.

_Baptista _could be in the vocative...but I don't know why it's not in the dative, if it is a dedication.

All conjecture, however.


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## Stiannu

judkinsc said:


> The word _baptista_ is: "baptiser."
> 
> With the information that Ceruti of Cremona was a violin maker, and this being a violin, it would seem then...that it was a gift to the baptiser of "Ceruti's son/daughter?"
> 
> "Jo:" could be the abbreviation of the name of the baptiser.
> 
> _Baptista _could be in the vocative...but I don't know why it's not in the dative, if it is a dedication.
> 
> All conjecture, however.


 
1804 is a quite late date, so modern Italian language and names were already widespread in Italy. This looks like a "latinization" of what could be Italian names: Jo. Baptista can be Giovanni Battista, and "Ceruti" is similar to family names such as Cerruti or Cerutti. I don't think the nominal cases of classical latin are used here (but yes, normally "Ceruti" would be the genitive of "Cerutus" in classical latin).


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## judkinsc

Stiannu said:


> 1804 is a quite late date, so modern Italian language and names were already widespread in Italy. This looks like a "latinization" of what could be Italian names: Jo. Baptista can be Giovanni Battista, and "Ceruti" is similar to family names such as Cerruti or Cerutti. I don't think the nominal cases of classical latin are used here (but yes, normally "Ceruti" would be the genitive of "Cerutus" in classical latin).




Thus, you believe it is simply a maker's mark?  An inscription that would translate as: "Giovanni Baptista Ceruti of Cremona made this at Cremona in the year 1804?"


That would certainly make sense.


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## mgman

It is Latin, which is normal for labels in stringed instruments. It states that Giovanni Baptista Ceruti (a member of a family of very fine violin makers from Cremona, Italy) made it (fecit is the past tense of the Latin verb facere, to make). Jo is short for Johannes, the Latin version of the Italian Giovanni. If the violin is a genuine G-B Ceruti, 1804, it could be worth a great deal of money, but you need to take advice from an honest expert to whom you are not going to sell it! Unfortunately, it was common practice to label good copies as the real thing, but if it IS the real thing, it is an exciting find. If there was any accompanying paperwork, that could greatly increase its value. Good luck with your research, and beware con artists who offer to take it off your hands!


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