# それに加えて残業もした



## theseus_

Context:
(1) 今日は夕方から忙しくなる予定だったので、1時間遅く出勤しました。それに加えて残業もしたので仕事で1日が終わりました。

(2) 今日は...、昼から友達の家で誕生日パーティー をしました。私を含めた7月生まれの数人で毎年していて、プレゼント交換もしました。いっぱい話して、友達の子供とゲームもできて楽しかったです。

I have a few doubts about the position of "も" in phrases. I guess in some cases, if shift the position of "も", the meaning will be changed.

For instance "残業もした" and "交換もしました", if I regard each of them as one single verb, "残業する" and "交換する", it seems that "も" is inserted into the inside of these verbs, as "交換 | も | しました". After I had this idea, I imagine that move "も" to the front of verbs, let them not split by "も", as "も残業した" and "も交換しました", but then I found meanings changed completely.

May I ask is there some rule about the position of "も"?


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## SoLaTiDoberman

も (as well, too) modifies the noun just before it.
The noun should be another example for something.

The without-も version for それに加えて*残業*もした is それに加えて*残業を*した。
You should not think it as a verb "*残業する*." You should not think it as それに加えて*残業した。*

You should not think it as a verb "交換する." or プレゼント *を 交換する.*
You may think it as *プレゼント交換*　*を　する*. (を is changed to も in this context.)

*プレゼント*も交換した implies to refer to some other thing was exchanged, such as "business cards."
*プレゼント交換*もした implies to refer to some other party activities, such as "talking," and "playing games."

*友だちの子供*ともゲームができた implies to refer to some other participants, such as "her friends themselves."
*友達の子供とゲーム*もできた implies to refer to some other party activities, such as "talking," and "exchanging gifts."

プレゼント交換 and おしゃべり and 友達の子供とのゲーム are the birthday party activities.


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## gengo

theseus_ said:


> Context:
> (1) 今日は夕方から忙しくなる予定だったので、1時間遅く出勤しました。それに加えて残業もしたので仕事で1日が終わりました。
> 
> (2) 今日は...、昼から友達の家で誕生日パーティー をしました。私を含めた7月生まれの数人で毎年していて、プレゼント交換もしました。いっぱい話して、友達の子供とゲームもできて楽しかったです。



My translations:
(1) I went to work an hour later today because we were expecting to be busy in the evening. On top of that, I worked overtime, so my day ended at work.

(2) Today... I went to a birthday party at my friend's house in the afternoon. We do this every year for several of us who were born in July, including me, and we exchanged presents. We talked a lot and had fun playing games with my friends' children.

As Sola has said, the も takes the place of を here, and the meaning would change if we moved it in front of the noun.  That is:
プレゼント交換もしました
is not the same as
プレゼントも交換しました.

In the first one, プレゼント交換 is a compound noun, so the sentence means "we also did {gift exchange}."  In second one, the only noun is プレゼント, and 交換しました is a verb, so it means "we also exchanged gifts."  Of course, the basic meaning is the same, but grammatically the two phrases are very different.


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## theseus_

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> も (as well, too) modifies the noun just before it.
> The noun should be another example for something.
> 
> The without-も version for それに加えて*残業*もした is それに加えて*残業を*した。
> You should not think it as a verb "*残業する*." You should not think it as それに加えて*残業した。*
> 
> You should not think it as a verb "交換する." or プレゼント *を 交換する.*
> You may think it as *プレゼント交換*　*を　する*. (を is changed to も in this context.)
> 
> *プレゼント*も交換した implies to refer to some other thing was exchanged, such as "business cards."
> *プレゼント交換*もした implies to refer to some other party activities, such as "talking," and "playing games."
> 
> *友だちの子供*ともゲームができた implies to refer to some other participants, such as "her friends themselves."
> *友達の子供とゲーム*もできた implies to refer to some other party activities, such as "talking," and "exchanging gifts."
> 
> プレゼント交換 and おしゃべり and 友達の子供とのゲーム are the birthday party activities.


Thanks! I guess I have got the point "も takes the place of を".
But may I ask what does "も" in "残業もした" implies to? Is it "1時間遅く出勤しました"?
Does it mean the author went to work an hour later, that is, she got off work an hour later in schedule, but the one hour was not enough for that day's work, so she also/even (も) need overtime?



gengo said:


> My translations:
> (1) I went to work an hour later today because we were expecting to be busy in the evening. On top of that, I worked overtime, so my day ended at work.
> 
> (2) Today... I went to a birthday party at my friend's house in the afternoon. We do this every year for several of us who were born in July, including me, and we exchanged presents. We talked a lot and had fun playing games with my friends' children.
> 
> As Sola has said, the も takes the place of を here, and the meaning would change if we moved it in front of the noun.  That is:
> プレゼント交換もしました
> is not the same as
> プレゼントも交換しました.
> 
> In the first one, プレゼント交換 is a compound noun, so the sentence means "we also did {gift exchange}."  In second one, the only noun is プレゼント, and 交換しました is a verb, so it means "we also exchanged gifts."  Of course, the basic meaning is the same, but grammatically the two phrases are very different.


Thanks for your translations!
I guess "On top of that" refers to "加えて", may I ask is there a progressive relationship between "went to work an hour later" and "worked overtime"?


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## gengo

theseus_ said:


> But may I ask what does "も" in "残業もした" implies to? Is it "1時間遅く出勤しました"?



It is stressing the idea that in addition to going to work an hour later (and therefore ending the normal work day an hour later), the person also had to work overtime.



theseus_ said:


> I guess "On top of that" refers to "加えて", may I ask is there a progressive relationship between "went to work an hour later" and "worked overtime"?



Let's look at an imaginary schedule.
The person usually works from 9:00 to 5:00.  Because they were going to be busy in the evening, the person went to work at 10:00 and finished the normal day at 6:00.  However, there was still more work to do, so the person had to stay at work past 6:00.  The Japanese implies that the person was still at work at midnight (仕事で1日が終わりました).


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## KLAUSED

It's off-topic but the first sentence sounds counterintuitive. Why would you go to work an hour later knowing you would be busy in the evening 🥴


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> It's off-topic but the first sentence sounds counterintuitive. Why would you go to work an hour later knowing you would be busy in the afternoon?



It does make sense.  Let's say that the company will be meeting with clients, etc., in the late afternoon.  That work will require the employees to stay until 6:00 (rather than the usual 5:00).  Rather than making the employees do overtime (= work nine hours instead of eight), they ask them to come to work an hour later.  However, in this case, the work ended up requiring overtime after all.  (And that is the point of the も in the JP.)


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> It does make sense.  Let's say that the company will be meeting with clients, etc., in the late afternoon.  That work will require the employees to stay until 6:00 (rather than the usual 5:00).  Rather than making the employees do overtime (= work nine hours instead of eight), they ask them to come to work an hour later.  However, in this case, the work ended up requiring overtime after all.  (And that is the point of the も in the JP.)


I say quite a lot of ”reading into" is needed to interpret it that way. 忙しくなる doesn't imply that you will be getting off work late, per se. I would explain what you wrote if that was what I was trying to convey.


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> I say quite a lot of ”reading into" is needed to interpret it that way. 忙しくなる doesn't imply that you will be getting off work late, per se.



Not explicitly, but it's sort of implied.  When I worked at a department store in Japan, the 課長 would often tell us that  忙しくなる at the end of work, and we all knew that that meant one thing:  残業.


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> Not explicitly, but it's sort of implied.  When I worked at a department store in Japan, the 課長 would often tell us that  忙しくなる at the end of work, and we all knew that that meant one thing:  残業.


Assuming you were working as a sales clerk, going to work an hour late wouldn't work because you'd still have to be there when the store opens. I require more context than just 忙しくなる to make sense of going to work an hour late when you know you're going to be busy.


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> Assuming you were working as a sales clerk, going to work an hour late wouldn't work because you'd still have to be there when the store opens.



Yes, of course.  I was simply giving an example of when 忙しくなる implies 残業.  The OP's context is different and does not involve opening and closing times, which is why it's possible to shift an employee's start and end times.

This situation is not at all unusual.  I have often heard friends say that they will be going to work later than usual because they expect to have to stay late for some reason.


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> Yes, of course.  I was simply giving an example of when 忙しくなる implies 残業.  The OP's context is different and does not involve opening and closing times, which is why it's possible to shift an employee's start and end times.
> 
> This situation is not at all unusual.  I have often heard friends say that they will be going to work later than usual because they expect to have to stay late for some reason.


All I'm saying is that 忙しくなる→早めに出社する is much more straightforward than 忙しくなる→要残業→残業しないために遅めに出社する making the sentence counterintuitive. And, no, where I come from it's unusual to go to work late when you know you're going to be busy, and that's why I require more context than just 忙しくなる.


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> And, no, where I come from it's unusual to go to work late when you know you're going to be busy



And yet the person who wrote the diary in the OP's context did just that.


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> And yet the person who wrote the diary in the OP's context did just that.


Well we don't know why they did what they did because there isn't enough context and as I said we can only read into it. And the OP says nothing about a diary.


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> And the OP says nothing about a diary.



I know it's a diary from previous posts by the OP.  And the writer is a woman.


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> I know it's a diary from previous posts by the OP.  And the writer is a woman.


I see. So you clearly have more context than I do


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## theseus_

gengo said:


> It is stressing the idea that in addition to going to work an hour later (and therefore ending the normal work day an hour later), the person also had to work overtime.
> 
> Let's look at an imaginary schedule.
> The person usually works from 9:00 to 5:00.  Because they were going to be busy in the evening, the person went to work at 10:00 and finished the normal day at 6:00.  However, there was still more work to do, so the person had to stay at work past 6:00.  The Japanese implies that the person was still at work at midnight (仕事で1日が終わりました).


Thanks for giving me the schedule! It makes me understand these logical links which "も" and "加えて" created.
And of couse, I know it was based on assumptions.



KLAUSED said:


> It's off-topic but the first sentence sounds counterintuitive. Why would you go to work an hour later knowing you would be busy in the evening 🥴


Thanks to bring up the issue, actually, I have same doubts about what you said.
And thanks for the following discussion, it makes me deepen my understanding.


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