# avant / devant - arrière / derrière



## scloughley

I get confusion with these positional words.  I'd love if some could clarify.
1.  Are derrière and à l'arrière (de) the same meaning?
2.  Can "avant" ever be used for in the front (in a physical and not in a chronological sense)?  For example, if you are in a shop and you want the croissant at the front of the display, can you not say "le croissant à l'avant, s'il vous plait?"  If this is OK, then what is the difference between devant and avant for physical placement (recognising that only avant may denote "before" in a chronological sense).
3.  Is there any practical difference between devant and "en face", and between derriere and "de dos"?
4.  What about the word for "the top" - for example, "the top of that picture is too low".  Is it "le haut de ce tableau est trop bas?"

Many thanks to anyone who can shed some light!

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.


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## zaby

1. not exactly. For example if I say "je suis derrière la voiture", I'm not in the car, I'm _behind_ it. If I say "je suis à l'arrière de la voiture", I'm in the car, on the rear seats (_à l'arrière = at the back_ ?)

I guess in some cases they may have the same meaning but usually, 
if "A est à l'arrière de B", A is a part of B or A is inside B. 
if "A est derrière B" A and B are 2 separate things and they are not in one another.

2. 





> can you not say "le croissant à l'avant, s'il vous plait?" If this is OK, then what is the difference between devant and avant for physical placement


We could say "le croissant à l'avant de la vitrine" (you need to precise _à l'avant de quoi _) 

3. Yes there is. With "en face" and "de dos", there is an idea of 'orientation' (I can't find a better word). If you are "en face d'une autre personne", you are face to face with this person. but if you're in a queue, with someone in front of you, this person is "devant", but he is "de dos" because you see his back, not his face.

4. I think "the top of " is usually "le haut de" as in your example. I guess sometimes it can be "le dessus de".


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## profmike1

Hello,

Could anyone explain to me the difference between the nouns "avant" and "devant?"  They both seem to mean the front of something, but I'm lost on the distinction.  Is the opposite of both of these words "arrière", or does each have a unique opposite?

Thanks,
  Mike


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## Juliana326

"Avant" means "before," like before dinner= avant le diner, where as "devant" means "in front of," like devant la porte= in front of the door.  "Avant" usually refers to time, like "before the show," or "I arrived before you," whereas devant usually refers to place, like "she is in front of him in line."


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## geostan

_Avant_ is used for time and order, _devant_ for position, location.
Occasionally, they seem to conflict. However, if you think of _avant_ as the opposite of _après_, and _devant_ as the opposite of _derrière_, you should have no problems with this pair.

On place l'adjectif avant le nom (rather than devant, since the opposite would be après.)

Cheers!


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## totallylost202

What's the difference between se rapprocher vers l'avant and se rapprocher en avant?


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## colibe

There is no real differences


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## LinePo

There is a difference.
Se rapprocher en avant means something like you are moving your body (not necessary your legs).
Se rapprocher vers l'avant has a meaning of walking...

Am I clear?


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## Junky_Hero

Bonjour, j'ai beaucoup de mal avec ces traductions:

- Être devant quelque chose ou quelqu'un
- Être à l'avant
- Aller devant


Merci


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## roms

1) - to be/stand before something/somebody (aspect quantitatif)
- to be/stand in front of something/somebody (aspect qualitatif)
2) to be/stand at the front (comme à l'avant d'un bateau)
3) to go in front of smth/smb (passer d'une position quelconque à la position devant qqch/qqun)


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## ghostmoon

Oui, je suis d'accord avec *roms*.

1) 'être devant' qqn/qch suggère 'to be in front of something/someone' en sens de position, ou 'to be/stand before someone' en sens plus abstrait, d'être amené devant qqn, comme 'passer devant monsieur le maire' qui se traduit par 'to pass in front of/before the mayor'.

2) 'à l'avant' suggère être, comme *roms* a dit, 'to be at the front of something', en sens d'une file ou qqch comme ça.

3) 'aller devant' suggère ce que je dirais comme 'go before/go in front', par exemple, encore avec la file, on pouvait dire à qqn 'You can go in front of me', qui serait la meilleure traduction de ce qui est impliqué par 'Vous pouvez aller devant'. Ce serait un peu extraordinaire en anglais, cependant, de dire 'You can go in front' sans 'of me/him/us/them'. Bien qu'on puisse le dire, c'est plus normale de le dire avec le qualificatif 'of me', etc.

J'espère que ceci vous soit utile, et que vous pardonnerez les erreurs de français qu'il est inévitable que j'ai fait!


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## samcluk

"Astana s’est imposée en46 minutes et 29 secondes, soit 19 secondes devant Garmin et 40 secondes avant Saxo Bank"
 
Pourquoi 'devant', et puis 'avant'? Quelle est la différence entre les deux?
Merci d'avance


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## Tochy14

My very personal opinion about this sentence is that "devant" is used instead of "avant" because there is nobody between Astana and Garmin. For example, in the ranking Astana won the 2nd place and Garmin the third one.  Whereas there must be other racing cyclists between Astana and Saxo Bank.

But it is just a personal feeling.


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## lilouxrs

my personal feeling is that you can use both.


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## arouet394

on met les prenoms direct et indirect "avant" ou "devant"  le verbe. quel mot est plus approprié?

mercimercid'avance


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## Z4ndra

Les deux s'utilisent autant je pense.


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## Sunspot

1. I believe that avant or de devant immediately after a noun ("X") means in front of "X". Can they broadly be used interchangeably? My dictionary offers only la roue avant (not de devant), but on the other hand la patte de devant (not avant). I hope I am not going to have to match each noun to a specific version of front.

2. Similarly for back "X". (I see la roue arrière, but la dent de derrière....Would it be the same to say la roue de derrière and la dent arrière?)


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## jetset

/!\ for body parts, we use "antérieur" or "postérieur".
Ex : les pattes postérieures (animals), les membres inférieurs (humans).

for material parts (such as a car), you can use avant/arrière.


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## Sunspot

Thanks for the reply. Based on what you say, I will learn to use avant/arrière for everything except body parts, which is much simpler than I feared might be the case.

I guess I could use de devant/de derrière for the body parts as alternatives to antérieur/postérieur. That might be more in keeping with my rather basic French!


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## Pure_Yvesil

I'm not quite sure about Geostan's example..I am however quite sure some grammar manuals use "devant" to express rules of syntax.

For example: "l'adjectif est placé devant/derrière le nom" "l'adjectif est placé avant/après le nom", "l'adjectif précède/suit le nom"

Can anyone confirm ?


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## DearPrudence

"devant / derrière" don't shock me and I understand them.
But personally, I've always used and mostly heard "avant" et "après" ("l'accord du participe passé avec "avoir" se fait avec le COD s'il est placé _avant _le verbe". Ha, sweet memories! ). They really sound more natural and idiomatic to me.
(after all, when you speak, first you say one word, then another so it's only logical we should use "avant" "après")


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## becky7852

bonjour, 

à l'avant de la maison
devant la maison
 au devant de la maison

pour moi les 3 donnent le même sens Est-ce qu'il y a en fait une différence parmi les 3 expressions?


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## CarlosRapido

à l'avant de la maison - to/at the front of the house - Go to the front of the house

devant la maison  - in front of the house - The car is parked in front of the house

au devant de la maison - The main entrance is at the front of the house


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## honisterpass

Hi,
[...] Do I understand correctly if I say:
a) 1 The cat is at the back of the house = 2 Le chat est à l'arrière de la maison = 3 Le chat est au fond de la maison
b) 4 The cat is behind the house = 5 Le chat est derrière la maison = 6 Le chat est en arrière de la maison

c) Is 2 saying the cat is at the back (opposite to the front) of the house whilst 3 is saying the cat is _right_ at the back (like in the depths of the house)?
d) Are 5 and 6 both saying the cat is behind the house but 6 gives a sense that it is _just_ behind? I reached that conclusion as I understand that "en arrière de" can mean "in the background of"?

Hope I'm not overcomplicating things here...


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## tartopom

I think you're not.

Same answer as in the previous post: it sounds strange - to me - to say _Le chat est à l'arrière de la maison. _


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## Locape

Even if you wish (apparently really wish) to say in french 'le chat est à l'arrière de la maison', you simply can't! Even less 'en arrière de la maison', it's not correct french. If the cat is outside, behind the house, you say 'le chat est derrière la maison'. If the cat is inside the house, in the bottom, deep inside, then 'le chat est au fond de la maison'.


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## Locape

jetset said:


> /!\ for body parts, we use "antérieur" or "postérieur".
> Ex : les pattes postérieures (animals), les membres inférieurs (humans).
> for material parts (such as a car), you can use avant/arrière.


'Antérieur' et 'postérieur' sont justes, mais c'est un vocabulaire assez scientifique, on peut dire 'la patte avant' ou 'la patte arrière' d'un animal, même mon vétérinaire l'utilise devant moi, peut-être pas devant des élèves vétérinaires. 
'Les membres inférieurs/supérieurs', c'est différent, on dit aussi le bas/le haut du corps.


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## honisterpass

Locape said:


> Even if you wish (apparently really wish) to say in french 'le chat est à l'arrière de la maison', you simply can't! Even less 'en arrière de la maison', it's not correct french. If the cat is outside, behind the house, you say 'le chat est derrière la maison'. If the cat is inside the house, in the bottom, deep inside, then 'le chat est au fond de la maison'.


Thanks a lot. I picked up those definitions from dictionaries/websites without context but now I think I understand that:

au fond de - right at the back/in the depths of (eg le chat est au fond de la voiture)
derrière - behind (eg le chat est derrière la voiture)
à l'arrière de - at the back of/reverse side of (eg le grafitti est à l'arrière de la voiture)
en arrière - behind but as an adverb (eg regarde en arrière / mettez celui-ci en arrière de celui-là)

Am I able to say "le chat est sur l'arrière de la voiture" to mean the cat is on the back of the car (like hanging on with its claws or something crazy like that)?


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## Locape

Lol! I imagine the poor cat! You would rather say 'le chat s'accroche à l'arrière de la voiture'. Or maybe 'sur le capot arrière de la voiture', then not necessarily hanging.
So 'au fond de la maison' is translated by 'in the depths of the house', not 'the bottom' ?


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