# EN: the road unwinds given time



## phils968

Hi

The sentence comes from a chorus of a song. I just don't understand the sentence and particularly "given". It totaly confuses me. In fact I dont understand the meaning of this sentence and even not the construction. Unwinds is the verb but that's all I can understand so far.
Can someone explain me the way it is written and give me a french translation ?

In case it can help the complete chorus is 

_Hey shaman I’m sure
That the road unwinds given time
If not, what’s it all for?_


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## Tochka

Thanks for providing context.  Always helps to have it.

given time = if you allow time to pass
(There should be a comma after "unwinds", I think, but there should also be one after "Shaman"--so it's probably just due to lack of attention to detail and not intended to affect the meaning.)


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## phils968

I have no idea if there are commas missing. That's the way the lyrics are written and the way they sing the song.
So you suggest  the sentences are as below

Hey Shaman, I am sure that the road unwinds, given time. If not, what's it all for?

Maybe but I still don't understand the meaning of it all. "Given time" still makes no sense here for me...


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## Morganlove

Perhaps, que la route un moment donné, s'étent....

Lyrics of songs are not always gramatically correct and then I think there is a lack here, as tochka pointed out right above


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## phils968

Morganlove said:


> Perhaps, que la route un moment donné, s'étent....
> 
> Lyrics of songs are not always gramatically correct and then I think there is a lack here, as tochka pointed out right above



Oui c'est clair que souvent il faut s'échiner à trouver une traduction. Ce n'est guère important. C'est la structure qui me perturbait plus qu'autre chose. Des fois qu'on puisse apprendre une nouvelle tournure anglaise je me suis dit que ça vallait le coup de demander... 

Merci tout de même


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## Tochka

phils968 said:


> Hey Shaman, I am sure that the road unwinds, given time. If not, what's it all for?
> Maybe but I still don't understand the meaning of it all. "Given time" still makes no sense here for me...


To understand "given time" here I think you need to understand the likely metaphor of the rest of the poem/lyrics.

I would expect the road to be a metaphor for life.
We speak of "winding roads"--usually these roads are in the countryside: they turn this way, then that way.  These roads can be difficult to travel.
Consider this a metaphor for life, with its many turns. 
While we would not normally say that a road "unwinds," here we could understand it to mean that as you travel along the road, it becomes straighter.  
So, "the road unwinds, given time." could mean the road will eventually straighten out and become easier, over time (or as time passes, if you allow time to pass). 
Following this same metaphor, "If not, what's it all for?" would mean "If [the road doesn't eventually straighten out], what is life (or the effort of living) for?"
Of course, I could be wrong.

Note re time and the road:  in my interpretation, the poem is not speaking of a static image of a road by itself as something unchanging.  Rather I think the image is of traveling along the road, and thus of the road being something that appears to change over time.


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## phils968

Thank you for this long explanation. I did understand that the road was the path we follow during our lifes. I didn't know about the saying "winding roads" that turns left and right  in the countryside. Your explanation is for sure the good one. 
But as I said in reply, to "Morganlove", I thought this was a particular structure of sentence in English I had never seen before, and wanted to learn something new today... 
It's also true that lyrics are sometimes hard to get even in your native language. I know I have troubles sometimes to understand them in french...

Thank you Tochka for your effort in this translation...


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## Tochka

Il n'y a pas de quoi. 
Je regrette que c'était si longue.  Il me semblait que le symbolisme était assez évident, mais puisque l'explication de "given time" n'est pas arrivée à éclaircir le sens, et qu'il ne m'était pas évident ce qui l'empêchait, il me semblait mieux de partir à zéro pour que tout se comprenne. 
A propos de la structure: 
Dans ce cas, l'expression, "given time," est normale et correcte, bien que souvent les paroles des chansons peuvent tordre la langue normale.  
On a en anglais la tournure "to give [something] time", qui veut dire de laisser le temps passer (afin de permettre quelque chose à se changer, se déveloper, etc.).  Alors, "given time" pourait se traduire, peut-être, comme «[ayant*] laissé passer le temps»--litéralement, «donné du temps».  (*Je ne sais pas si j'ai choisi le temps convenable du verbe... )  
---
Autres structures communes avec "given"  (normalement traduites comme «donné», je crois):
Given his advanced age, we were surprised to learn he was so fit.  _ou_ We were surprised to learn he was so fit, given his advanced age.
Given the large number of people who said they liked our home delivery, we decided to continue to offer this service. _ou_ We decided to continue to offer home delivery, given the large number of people who said they liked this service.
ou dans la logique: 
Given:  That P implies Q, and that Q implies R,  Therefore: P implies R.


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## phils968

Pour la phrase qui nous concerne en titre je comprenais bien la symbolique du début concernant les routes tortueuses de la vie et je connaissais aussi l'expression "given time". C'est le lien entre les deux qui m'a posé problème. Pour moi il manquait quelque chose ou "given time" avait une autre signification qui m'était inconnue. J'aurais mieux compris la phrase comme ceci " I am sure that the road unwinds *is* given time". Ce que j'aurais pu éventuellement traduire en extrapolant largement par " Je suis sûr que le chemin qui s'ouvre devant nous est du temps offert". Philosophiquement parlant c'est douteux mais cela a un sens au moins. 
Je ne connaissais pas (ou plus) le "given" utilisé en début de phrase qui se traduit pour moi par "étant donné". Je vais tenter de m'en souvenir


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## Tochka

Est-ce que vous voulez dire que vous ne comprennez pas toujours comment "given time" s'entend ice? Je ne suis pas certaine si j'ai bien compris le dernier message.


phils968 said:


> J'aurais mieux compris la phrase comme ceci "I am sure that the road unwinds is given time".


  Malheureusement, cela n'irait pas du tout, ni du point de vue grammatique ni du point de vue de la compréhension.  Pour la grammaire, ça devrait être "I am sure that the road *that *unwinds is given time", mais cela voudrait dire « je suis sur que l'on a donné du temps au chemin qui se détortu [my attempt at "unwind"] » qui n'est pas le sens de l'anglais.    
L'usage de "given time" est évident à mon gré.  Le sens de l'anglais pour cela est "si on attend" ou "si on laisse passer le temps".


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## phils968

Well let's make a try in english then . I understand the beginning of the sentence until "unwinds". I also understand the saying given time. The complete sentence doesn't make sens for me in his construction. For me there is something missing between those two parts. And a comma would not help. There is not real link between those two parts. That's why I wanted to add "is" in between. But you are right the correct way would be "I am sure that the road *that *unwinds is given time". If I remember "unwind" means "se dérouler" but it is used for cables tapes and things like that. that's why I suggested  this translation " Je suis sûr que le chemin qui s'ouvre devant nous est du temps offert" where "the road that unwinds" has been translated by "les chemins qui s'ouvrent devant nous" because translate unwinds by "se déroule" would not be good french...

I hope this will help you understand my restricted mind on this particular point...


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## Tochka

Veuillez me pardoner de ne pas répondre hier.  Ce que j'ai écrit a disparue dans « les cieux digitals », si l'on peut dire cela. 

Aujourd'hui j'ai lu les paroles completes du chanson, et il me semble que particulièrement dans ce contexte, il faut comprendre "the road unwinds given time"-- au moins pour le sens primaire -- à dire que le chemin devient de plus en plus étroit, c-à-d plus facile à traverser, [et l'on verra que c'est vrai] si l'on a de la patience et attend que le temps passe.  Mais c'est possible qu'il y a un message sous-jacent, en ce que "unwind" s'emploie aussi pour le ralentissement des méchanismes comme les horloges qui ont des ressorts.  So there may be an additional feeling of "relaxing" or slowing down.  (In fact these days we often use "unwind" to mean "relax", drawing on the "spring" metaphor.)  But the road itself is what is said to "unwind," so I think the primary image is intended to be in contrast to our usual usage of "winding road". 
A propos duquel... 





> If I remember "unwind" means "se dérouler" but it is used for cables tapes and things like that. that's why I suggested this translation " Je suis sûr que le chemin qui s'ouvre devant nous est du temps offert" where "the road that unwinds" has been translated by "les chemins qui s'ouvrent devant nous" because translate unwinds by "se déroule" would not be good french...


  Souvenez-vous que "the road unwinds" ne se dit pas en anglais non plus.   Ça doit être de métaphore. (Alors peut-être se dérouler serrait le bon choix? Non, je réponds à moi-même, parce que "winding road" ne se dit pas en français!) 

Ce qui nous amène au sujet de la grammaire de "given time," j'essayerai de nouveau à expliquer cet usage.  

*GIVEN TIME*
Je ne sais pas si j'ai bien compris "le chemin...est du temps offert."  Il me semble que ça fait une équivalence du (?sets up an identification or equivalence between) le chemin et l'existance de (ou la possibilité d'avoir) plus de temps.  Ce n'est pas l'image fait par les mots anglais, bien que peut-être le "poetic license" puisse permettre un changement artistique dans la traduction. )

Il me semble que "given" dans "given time" est plus ou moins la même construction que « donné [tel ou tel fait] » en français (ou plutôt: [tel ou tel fait soyant] donné), mais que peut-être on a plus de latitude (si l'on peut dire cela en français) grammatiquement(?) pour son placement dans la phrase.  

The grammatical structure of "given time" is the same as to say, *"Time being given," *only the order of the words is changed and the participle of the verb "to be" is not stated, but understood.  (Perhaps this is the explanation you need to make sense of the grammar?  Apologies that it didn't occur to me to unravel it this way for you earlier. )

En tout cas, peut-être ça vous aidera si je vous donne quelques autres exemplaires que j'ai trouvé en cherchant "given time" à yahoo:

Here the some of the "hits" whose *grammar is parallel* to the usage of "given time" in the song:
"Given time, great colleges learn to fix their problems."1 
"NFC shows potential for consumer engagement, given time."2 
"Slow, slow me down, Slow, slow me down, Given time I’d make amends,..."3 (lyrics to a song) 
"Given time, will the [name of group] destroy the statue of David, the Piata,...?" [edited and citation omitted to avoid repeating negative overgeneralization]

The *meaning* *of the expression "given time" is the same in these examples, although they have a different grammatical form:
"Lloris' brother must be given time to progress, warns Nice coach"4 
"Sunderland's Danny Rose will be given time to recover from his racism ordeal...."5 

*Edit: Je vois maintenant que je ferrait mieux ne pas avoir fait la compairaison à « donné », puis que le sens le plus fréquent est comme dan la logique, et ici « given » fait parti d'une expression particulière.  Je m'excuse si cela vous a posé des difficultés.

J'espère que cela vous aidera à vous "des-restreindre" les idées sur ce point. 
----
1 http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/socie...arn-to-fix-their-problems-20121108-290tj.html
2 http://www.campaignasia.com/Article...ntial-for-consumer-engagement-given-time.aspx
3 http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/delays/giventime.html
4 http://www.goal.com/en-sg/news/3868...her-must-be-given-time-to-progress-warns-nice
5 http://www.bigpondsport.com/rose-gi...racial-row/tabid/91/newsid/97074/default.aspx


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## phils968

Glad to hear from you again about this simple sentence. To be honest I had a flash yesterday morning while thinking about this. I'll explain you what I have in mind in a while. You may find this silly or just impossible but I'll tell you anyway.

First thank you for spending time on trying to explain me what seems to be obvious for you but hard to get for me. I really appreciate. 
I have red carefully what you explained and have noticed that "road unwinds" is not used in english in the meaning of "dérouler" or "se dérouler" in french...

As I am a bit obstinate but in the good way (I hope) as long as I don't find what I am seeking, I keep on trying to find out even if it takes me days and days. So while thinking about this sentence I remembered yesterday a french saying about the road in witch a road is compared to a " strip or band of asphalt" unwinding in front of you while you drive. In french it's "la bande d'asphalte qui se déroule devant nous". In this saying the "strip of asphalt" is clearly compared to a tape unwinding in front of you. And suddenly "Given time" took his place in the sentence by answering this simple question "What does the road unwind? " and the answer was "Given time"... That's a typical question for us in french to find the "Complément d'objet direct" (direct objet complement?) in a sentence. I guess you know what I am talking about. 
So the road does not unwind itself but the road or the fact to "walk" on the road of life unwinds the time you have been given... (like a tape or a strip) and when you reach the end of the "tape" ..... It's over !!! So every step on the road of life makes your "given time" drop down 

A translation for this meaning would be. (it is said with totaly different words but the spirit (meaning) has been kept)
"Je suis sûr que chacun de nos pas sur le chemin de la vie égrène le temps qui nous a été alloué"
to help you understand it ,in english it could be
"I am sure that every little step on the path of our life chimes out given time" (not sure for chime out )

In french it is understandable. At least it is for me.

What do you think about this possible (or impossible) meaning ?
I may be wrong but in fact that's not my purpose to know who's wrong or right. The discussion is much more important...


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## Tochka

Très intéressant, et cela explique votre _"tenacity"_ (the nice way to say "obstinacy" and focus on the positive side.  )

I think I may have misled you in speaking of the meaning of "unwind" as used to mean "dérouler."  It is true that this is a meaning of the word, and may be helpful to understanding an additional feeling present in the lyrics' unusual use of "unwind" in this sentence, but I do not think it is not the primary meaning here.
As you've understood, this is not a word we normally use this way in connection with roads.  

My belief is that the use of "road unwinds" here in the lyrics is primarily meant to be in contrast to, and pose the direct opposite meaning to, the expression "winding road", despite the fact that the expression uses a participial adjective and the sentence uses a regular verb form of "wind/unwind".  Since a winding road is a twisted road, the concept is of a twisted road becoming its opposite and would most likely mean that the road straightens or becomes easier, I think.  

As I've tried to show, "given time" is a set expression with the meaning of "allowing time to pass".  

So in the examples I provided:
"Given time, great colleges learn to fix their problems."= Great colleges will figure out how to fix their problems if enough time is allowed to pass.

"NFC shows potential for consumer engagement, given time."= NFC will be able to engage consumers, if they are permitted enough time for this to happen.

"Slow, slow me down, Slow, slow me down, Given time I’d make amends,..."= Slow me down (let me slow down)...I will correct what I did wrong and make resitution if I am allowed enough time to do so.

"Given time, will the [name of group] destroy the statue of David, the Piata,...?"  These people will destroy the statue... if they are allowed enough time to do so.

Furthermore, I do not think it is possible for "given time"--even speaking poetically--to shift meaning from its set expression to mean the "time you are given [by life or fate or whatever]", if I have correctly understood your intended meaning.  To refer to "the time that has been given to me" or, as we sometime say, "the time allotted me", we would normally place the noun before the modifier and say "the time given".  Additionally, as I have just done, the expression would need an article or possessive pronoun, and possibly also the addition of a preposition, for it to be used this way (e.g. "During the time given me,* I was able to accomplish many things.")  *"me" would be an indirect pronoun here, meaning "the time given to me".

So, unfortunately, no.  I do not think there is any way that "given time" here could mean "the time that has been given."  It has to have a conditional sense, as in the phrase "Time being given" or "if [enough] time is given."

Does this help?


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## phils968

Well you don't like my try and you are for good right. Though it looked very nice to me 
I didn't try to link my traduction to the rest of the lyrics to see if it could make sense within the whole lyrics. 
I have difficulty with only one line imagine what it could be if I would like to translate the whole song 

I'll try to keep in mind the different ways to use "given time" in a sentence but I guess I won't recall in few weeks, mostly because I am unable to figure out the construction of the sentences with "given time" and therefore unable to find out the meaning. The examples you submited are hard to get for me. Don't know why but that's a reality. I have reached my limits I suppose...  

Thank you for your help and effort in this post. It was a pretty nice. Hope to discuss with you on another subject soon.


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