# vetävän käteen ... tulosvipu ylöspäin



## Gavril

Päivää,

I can't figure out what the highlighted words mean here:



> Tämä tie on luonnollisesti kuljettu pian loppuun, ja pää tulee vetävän käteen viimeistään loppuvuonna, jos vienti ei lähde vetämään. Tiukkaan kuntoon viritettyjen yhtiöiden tulosvipu ylöspäin on teoriassa täysin ilmeinen, jos kysyntänäkymä vahvistuu.



"Soon, this road will have naturally run its course, and the end will come *[??]* by the end of the year at the latest, unless exports start booming. For companies that have been tightly tuned into shape, *[??]* is completely self-evident in theory, if the prospects of demand become stronger."

Auttaisitteko?

Kiitos


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## Spongiformi

_"Pää tulee vetävän käteen"_ is an idiom constructed from an image of pulling a rope until you finally meet its end. Meaning running out of/exhausting options/resources, and such things.

I haven't apparently read enough financial news since that _"tulosvipu"_ (profit lever) word is not something I'm familiar with. But I imagine it refers to an imaginary lever that's turned upwards for a positive bottom line. Since a lever is the simple machine, it can be pictured as a tool that raises the company's profit when the company is in a good shape. To be honest I think this is nonsense, which is probably why I haven't seen the word used in the sources I read.


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## Gavril

Spongiformi said:


> _"Pää tulee vetävän käteen"_ is an idiom constructed from an image of pulling a rope until you finally meet its end. Meaning running out of/exhausting options/resources, and such things.



Could we translate "pää tulee vetävän käteen" here as "the end of the tether will be reached"?



> I haven't apparently read enough financial news since that _"tulosvipu"_ (profit lever) word is not something I'm familiar with. But I imagine it refers to an imaginary lever that's turned upwards for a positive bottom line. Since a lever is the simple machine, it can be pictured as a tool that raises the company's profit when the company is in a good shape. To be honest I think this is nonsense, which is probably why I haven't seen the word used in the sources I read.



I think what most confuses me is the word sequence _tulosvipu ylöspäin_: does _ylöspäin_ form a phrase with _tulosvipu,_ or is it a separate part of that sentence?

Or to put it more simply, how would you translate the whole phrase "Tulosvipu ylöspäin on teoriassa täysin ilmeinen"?

Kiitos vielä kerran


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## Määränpää

> Could we translate "pää tulee vetävän käteen" here as "the end of the tether will be reached"?


I don't think it's the same. The Finnish expression refers to a strategy that will turn out to be useless (you pull and pull, but in the end all you will get is the end of the rope).


> I think what most confuses me is the word sequence _tulosvipu ylöspäin_: does _ylöspäin_ form a phrase with _tulosvipu,_ or is it a separate part of that sentence?


I'd say they form a phrase similar to "liikkuminen ylöspäin", although it doesn't really sound like good grammar. I can't translate it because I don't know economic vocabulary.


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## Gavril

Määränpää said:


> I don't think it's the same. The Finnish expression refers to a strategy that will turn out to be useless (you pull and pull, but in the end all you will get is the end of the rope).



"The end of the tether will be reached" can mean (among other things) that something which has temporarily worked will become useless. How does "Pää tulee vetävän loppuun" differ from this meaning?



> I'd say they form a phrase similar to "liikkuminen ylöspäin", although it doesn't really sound like good grammar. I can't translate it because I don't know economic vocabulary.



Would you say that "_tulosvipu ylöspäin on (...) ilmeinen"_ is equivalent to _"tulosvivun ylöspäin liikkuminen on ilmeistä"_, or is there a difference?

Kiitos


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## Spongiformi

Gavril said:


> "The end of the tether will be reached" can mean (among other things) that something which has temporarily worked will become useless. How does "Pää tulee vetävän loppuun" differ from this meaning?



I reckon the Finnish saying is used often in a situation where at least an outside observer will see that following the strategy till the end (or to an excess) will not produce the salvation. Maybe I didn't word it all too well in my first post. Määränpää might have said it better.



Gavril said:


> Would you say that "_tulosvipu ylöspäin on (...) ilmeinen"_ is equivalent to _"tulosvivun ylöspäin liikkuminen on ilmeistä"_, or is there a difference?



It might not be that concrete an expression. When it points upwards, the profits are good.

I see it like this:
"Tiukkaan kuntoon viritettyjen yhtiöiden tulosvipu ylöspäin on teoriassa täysin ilmeinen, jos kysyntänäkymä vahvistuu." ==
"Tiukkaan kuntoon viritettyjen yhtiöiden kyky parantaa tulostaan on teoriassa täysin ilmeinen, jos kysyntänäkymä vahvistuu."


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## Määränpää

Gavril said:


> "The end of the tether will be reached" can mean (among other things) that something which has temporarily worked will become useless. How does "Pää tulee vetävän loppuun" differ from this meaning?



I thought "the end of the tether" only meant breaking point, I guess I was wrong.



> Would you say that "_tulosvipu ylöspäin on (...) ilmeinen"_ is equivalent to _"tulosvivun ylöspäin liikkuminen on ilmeistä"_, or is there a difference?



I was trying to answer your first question of whether "ylöspäin" is a modifier of "tulosvipu" (yes) and invented _another_ phrase where "ylöspäin" also modifies a noun. I wasn't trying to rephrase the original (because I can't).


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## Gavril

Määränpää said:


> I thought "the end of the tether" only meant breaking point, I guess I was wrong.



I think you're right, "at the end of one's tether" means (according to an American English dictionary) "at the end of one's resources, patience or strength". 

Now that I think about it, this was probably not the clearest expression to use in this context; native speakers can't always be relied upon to use idioms correctly. 

Perhaps a better choice for translating _Pää tulee vetävän käteen_ would be "Time is running out on this system/strategy/etc."?


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