# FR: Je le/la lui ai donné(e) - I gave it to him/her - accord du participe passé



## Michmuch

Hi
_je la lui ai donné_ sounds wrong to me but I don't see why and where I would say _je lui ai donné_

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.


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## mattaku

Well, it's true that _je la lui ai donnée _is a bit of a mouthful, that's why _la _is often left out in speech.


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## tilt

When you say "_je lui ai donné_", you don't mention what you gave !
In oral speech, if you know what you're speaking about, it may be enough, but basically, it is incomplete....
If you don't need to mention to who you gave the spoon, would you say "_J'ai donné_"? No, you'd say "_Je l'ai donnée_". The "_l'_" is the "_la_" of "_Je la lui ai donnée_".


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## CARNESECCHI

Hello,
"Je lui ai donné la clé" = (speaking of the key) "je la lui ai donnée"

"je lui ai donné" is not complete!

[…]


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## sahana

I want to say:

She gave it to him.

So is it:

Elle a la lui donné.

I'm in grade 10 French. So bear with me. I'm not too good yet.


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## hawknelson_lover

It's actually...

Elle la lui a donné.

Since this sentence is in the "passé compsé"  the "a" and "donné" have to stay together


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## Thomas1

I think it should be:
Elle la lui a donnée.

Tom


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## sahana

Isn't there agreement only when etre is used?

Oh wait, no there is agreement cause it's P.D.O.


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## Thomas1

sahana said:


> Isn't there agreement only when etre is used?


No, if the direct object precedes the verb which is in passé composé (+avoir) then you have to agree it with the main verb.

Tom


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## bubble_gurl

Bonjour

For using both the indirect object and the direct object pronoun in the past tense,
ie Je le lui donne (I gave him the book) would it be 'Je le lui ai donné'? 

I am always confused with where to put the 'avoir'. 

And also how would I put this sentence into the negative past tense?
'Je ne le lui ai pas donné'?


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## ascoltate

sounds perfect


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## hugemoose101

Salut,
 I am trying to find out about replacing nouns in a sentence with direct and indirect pronouns, but am a little stuck on the word order. 
For example, with the sentence "He gave it to her", would that be translated as "il le lui ai donné"? 
And if the 'it' was feminine, would that be "Il la lui ai donné", or "il la lui ai donnée"?

Thanks


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## Léa123

The word order is correct. However, j'*ai* donné, tu *as* donné, il *a* donné... So it would be: Il le lui *a *donné. 

You're absolutely right, if the "it" stands for a feminine noun, it would be : Il *la* lui a donnée.


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## hugemoose101

So even though it's an indirect object, donner will go to 'donnée'? Because I always thought a verb would only agree with a direct object pronoun.

For example: I beat her: Je l'ai battue (as opposed to Je l'ai battu for I beat him).

I told her: Je lui ai parlé (not je lui ai parlée). I thought in this sense, an indirect object, there would be no agreement, therefore Il la lui a donnée would have to be Il la lui a donné.


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## persona67

"La" est le complément d'objet féminin placé avant l'auxiliaire "a" : le participe passé "donnée" s'accorde donc avec ce complément d'objet féminin.


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## MindBoggle

Bonjours!

Ils sont correctes, les deux traductions suivantes?

I gave it to him.
_Je le lui ai donné._

I gave it to her.
_Je le lui ai donné._



 MB


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## anne-kate

bonjour,

Oui, c'est correct.

"le" remplace l'objet donné (it)
"lui" remplace la personne à qui l'on a donné, indifféremment "à elle" et "à lui" (her, him)

a-k


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## MindBoggle

Merci, AK!

Je le trouve très déroutant, le fait qu'on utilise le même mot pour 'him' et 'her' même.

 MB


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## janpol

une telle phrase n'est jamais isolée : le contexte nous dit qui est "lui"


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## MindBoggle

Merci. Je chercherai le contexte, alors... 

 MB


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## maguinyc

Note: "I gave it to her or him"  can also be translated as:
Je LA lui ai donnée   if "it" is a feminin noun.  Then of course participe passé s'accorde avec preposition feminine placée avant.


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## MindBoggle

Merci, maguinyc!

- but don't you mean: _participe passé s'accorde avec *pronom* feminine placée avant. _

_- _or am I misunderstanding something?

 MB


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## Maître Capello

Your are correct, MindBoggle: Maguinyc meant _pronoun_ (or simply_ COD_), not _préposition_…

_J'ai donné *ce* crayon à Marc. → Je *le* lui ai donn*é*._
_J'ai donné *ce* crayon à Marie. → Je *le* lui ai donn*é*.
__J'ai donné *cette* gomme à Marc. → Je *la* lui ai donn*ée*.
__J'ai donné *cette* gomme à Marie. → Je *la* lui ai donn*ée*._


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## janpol

citation : _J'ai donné *un* crayon à Marc. → Je *le* lui ai donn*é*_

_je dirais plutôt :_
_J'ai donné *un* crayon à Marc. → Je lui *en* ai donn*é un.*_
_et_
_J'ai donné *mon / ce* crayon / *le* crayon que j'ai acheté hier / à Marc. → Je *le* lui ai donn*é*_


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## Maître Capello

Tout dépend du contexte, Janpol, par exemple: _J'ai donné *un* crayon à Marc; je *le* lui ai donné pour son anniversaire_.

EDIT: Quoi qu'il en soit, pour éviter toute confusion, j'ai modifié mon message précédent selon une de tes suggestions…


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## Phill

Salut, 
Dans le langage de tous les jours, on a même tendance à dire/écrire : "Je lui ai donné", on skip le "le"...
enfin, même si c'est peut être incorrect grammaticalement, tu entendras plus souvent "je lui ai donné" que "je le lui ai donné"...


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## Pupux

Oui, c'est vrai, mais plus dans le langage oral qu'écrit.


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## eleve

Bonjour,

In the following sentence, does the past participle go in accordance with the number and gender of the direct object pronoun 'la'?

Je la lui ai donné.

I know that the accordance is necessary in the following sentence:

Je l'ai donnée. (provided the direct object pronoun preceding is 'la')

But when two objects are preceding the verb in passé composé,i.e., one direct and one indirect,does the accordance of the past participle still hold good?

Thanks in advance.


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## Lacuzon

Hi,

The accordance is done whenever a direct object stands before the verb, no matter whether there is or not an indirect object also standing before the verb.

So of course: Je la lui ai donné*e*.


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## mousemobile

_I'm a bit confused as agreements using direct and indirect ponouns. I'd be very grateful for some help.
          Would these two translations be correct?
          I gave a tie to my brother: J’ai offert_ une cravate à mon frère
          I gave it to my brother: Je l’ai offerte à mon frère
          I gave it to him: Je la lui ai donné (no agreement because it's now 'to him'?)          And therefore, if I wanted to say; 'They gave the photos to the girls', would I say:
          Ils les leur ont donné? following the same rule?


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## Marie3933

I gave a tie to my brother : _J’ai offert__ une cravate à mon frère _
           I gave it to my brother : _Je l’ai offerte à mon frère_  si "it" (COD) = féminin (une cravate) -> participe passé au féminin
I gave it to him : _Je la lui ai donné_  (no agreement because it's now 'to him'? ) agreement because the object is "la" -> donné*e*.
          They gave the photos to the girls : _Ils les leur ont donné _ Same rule -> donn*ées* (COD = "photos", féminin pluriel)


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## mousemobile

Thank you very much - but can I just double check I've got it right?
Are the correct versions then:
_Je la lui ai donnée (f. s.)
Ils les leurs ont données (f. pl.)_

So that means that even when a COI is in the mix i.e. lui / leur, there is no agreement? 
In French, are these called combined ponouns? e.g. giving it to him, these to her etc.


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## Marie3933

mousemobile said:


> _Je la lui ai donnée (f. s.)
> Ils les leurs leur ont données (f. pl.) _
> So that means that even when a COI is in the mix i.e. lui / leur, there is no agreement?


No. That means that the presence of a COI pronoun does'nt change anything.


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## mousemobile

That's great - many thanks - Mouse.


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