# אנגלית --how to pronounce ?



## קטן

How to pronounce, in Israeli Hebrew, אנגלית, meaning 'English language' ?
My guess is [ˌ.anˈ.g͡lit] (thus without [ŋ]).

Is אנגלית ~ אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Notice the missing י. Or is י obligatory ?)

~ means 'both words defined and equal in meaning'.


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## Drink

I'm not sure about the first part (whether it's [n] or [ŋ]).

But as for the second question, yes the י is obligatory, and אנגלת is not a correct spelling.


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## סייבר־שד

The Wiktionary gives its pronunciation with [n], but now that I think of it, to me it has always sounded rather like [ŋ]...


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## Abaye

סייבר־שד said:


> The Wiktionary gives its pronunciation with [n], but now that I think of it, to me it has always sounded rather like [ŋ]...


Wikipedia for Modern Hebrew Phonology says:


> /n/ is pronounced [ŋ] before velar consonants.


but I'd take it with a grain of salt. Not clear whether they refer to standard language or marginal pronunciation. Their source is a survey by Nurit Dekel, 2014. In any case, it depends on the speaker and circumstances. I think that ŋ is a non-normative phenomenon, similarly to the "ch" sound (like in English mu*ch*) that doesn't exist in Hebrew but may be heard in words like תשוקה.

(maybe @amikama can split the thread so we'll have a discussion dedicated to ŋ).


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## קטן

אנגלת is not a correct spelling... ok, since אנגלית is known to be correct, nothing new here.

What about אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Consider איתום ~ אִתוּם, but מיזרח ≁ מִזְרָח.)

The question of pronunciation of אנגלית is still open, too.


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## Drink

קטן said:


> אנגלת is not a correct spelling... ok, since אנגלית is known to be correct, nothing new here.
> 
> What about אַנְגְּלִתּ ? (Consider איתום ~ אִתוּם, but מיזרח ≁ מִזְרָח.)


The vowel dots are not part of the spelling. When I say that אנגלת is not a correct spelling, that means with or without the dots.

Furthermore, you have a spurious dagesh inside the ת. The correct vocalization is אַנְגְּלִית.


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## קטן

Drink said:


> The vowel dots are not part of the spelling. When I say that אנגלת is not a correct spelling, that means with or without the dots.
> 
> Furthermore, you have a spurious dagesh inside the ת. The correct vocalization is אַנְגְּלִית.


OK. (תּ indicates [t] here, not [t̚.t]. Some people may think of [ S] or even [θ] when seeing ת. Not exactly Israeli Hebrew, but sorta appropriate.)

Pronunciation of אַנְגְּלִית ?

_[Moderator edit: formatting problem fixed.]_


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## Drink

קטן said:


> OK. (תּ indicates [t] here, not [t̚.t]. Some people may think of [ s] or even [θ] when seeing ת. Not exactly Israeli Hebrew, but sorta appropriate.)


The תּ with dot is pronounced [t] by everyone. The [ת] without dot is pronounced [θ], [ s], or [t] depending on the variety of Hebrew. Since we are dealing with Modern Israeli Hebrew, the ת is pronounced [t]. But putting the dot is not an arbitrary choice, but rather it depends on grammar. Putting a dot in the ת of אנגלית is grammatically incorrect.

As for the pronunciation of the נג, there was a brief discussion above, but I have nothing to add to it.


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## קטן

In German 'English' is 'Englisch', [ˈɜŋ.glɪʃ].
In French 'English' is 'l'Anglais', [lɑ̃ˈ.glɛ].
In Hebrew 'English' is אנגלית, and the pronunciation some mystic thing. 

Did I get this right ?


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## Drink

I think you are mixing up the symbols [ɜ] and [ɛ].

But Modern Hebrew is not German. In English as well it is [ŋg]. But that doesn't mean it is so in all languages. In Russian, for example, it is [ng] and not [ŋg].


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## קטן

Look, any useful Hebrew dictionary would have a short entry for אנגלית of the kind 'אנגלית, noun, English language, [ˌɐnˈ.glit], less often [ɐŋ-]' or the like.

Why is it so hard to get a short, but still exhaustive, answer here ?

(I'm not confusing IPA letters, but that is complex topic of its own.
Short answer is: The initial vowel in German 'Englisch' is open-mid, unrounded, not really front, rather central vowel. So ɜ is adequate phonetic model for this sound, while ɛ is front vowel. Note that the IPA letters, as I use them, designate particular sounds, not phonemes. Often, IPA letters are used in a different way.)


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