# Icelandic: Are preaspirated consonants (post)aspirated as well?



## kemocon

Or are there different cases based on where the consonant occurs, etc.? Let's take _eitt_ as an example. How would a native speaker of Icelandic pronounce it, [ɛiːʰtʰ] or [ɛiːʰt̚]? How about _klukkan_? [kʰlʏːʰkʰan] or [kʰlʏːʰkan]? (All of that was essentially one question, the one expressed in the title, so I didn't break any of the rules. ;p)

Thanks.


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## Tjahzi

Since you have not stated the language in question, should we assume that you are asking regarding Icelandic exclusively? Not stating the language in the topic is against the rules, so I'm afraid you did in fact break one.


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## Magb

I believe pre- and post-apiration are in complementary distribution. That is, if you have one of the two on a stop, you can't have the other. _Eitt_ and _klukkan_ would normally be pronounced [ɛiʰt] and [kʰlʏʰkan].

The following is just guesswork on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pronunciation of word-final /p t k/ is somewhat variable among Icelanders, possibly subject to idiosyncracies. In English, these sounds can (when word-final) be aspirated, unaspirated, unreleased, and even ejective, depending on the speaker. So maybe some Icelanders say [ɛiʰtʰ] or [ɛiʰt̚]. It wouldn't be obligatory the way normal Icelandic aspiration is though.

This is somewhat tangential, but it seems relevant. One of the few clear dialectal differences between northern and southern Icelandic has to do with aspiration of /p t k/ within words. People from northern Iceland use postaspiration for /p t k/ when they occur word-internally, but only when they follow long vowels (or /l/ or a nasal consonant). So _taka_ is pronounced [tʰa:kʰa] ([tʰa:ka] in non-northern Icelandic), but _þakka_ is still [θaʰka], not *[θaʰkʰa].


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## kemocon

I said "of Icelandic" which I think does constitute stating the language in question. To be frank, I didn't think there would be a difference between Icelandic and Faroese. Anyway, já, bara íslensku.


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## kemocon

Magb said:


> I believe pre- and post-apiration are in complementary distribution. That is, if you have one of the two on a stop, you can't have the other. _Eitt_ and _klukkan_ would normally be pronounced [ɛiʰt] and [kʰlʏʰkan].


Thanks. That's what I thought as well, but then I heard somebody (whom I cannot determine is native or not) aspirating a preaspirate, and wondered. Perhaps this explains it:


Magb said:


> The following is just guesswork on my part, but I wouldn't be surprised if the pronunciation of word-final /p t k/ is somewhat variable among Icelanders, possibly subject to idiosyncracies. In English, these sounds can (when word-final) be aspirated, unaspirated, unreleased, and even ejective, depending on the speaker. So maybe some Icelanders say [ɛiʰtʰ] or [ɛiʰt̚]. It wouldn't be obligatory the way normal Icelandic aspiration is though.


Didn't think of that. Sounds pretty plausible to me.


Magb said:


> This is somewhat tangential, but it seems relevant. One of the few clear dialectal differences between northern and southern Icelandic has to do with aspiration of /p t k/ within words. People from northern Iceland use postaspiration for /p t k/ when they occur word-internally, but only when they follow long vowels (or /l/ or a nasal consonant). So _taka_ is pronounced [tʰa:kʰa] ([tʰa:ka] in non-northern Icelandic), but _þakka_ is still [θaʰka], not *[θaʰkʰa].


Very interesting point. Thanks for the detailed answer.


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## Silver_Biscuit

kemocon said:


> I said "of Icelandic" which I think does constitute stating the language in question. To be frank, I didn't think there would be a difference between Icelandic and Faroese. Anyway, já, bara íslensku.


 
I don't know if the title has now been edited, but I suspect the problem referred to is that you just put 'Are preaspirated consonants (post)aspirated as well?' rather than 'Icelandic: Are preaspirated [etc]'. 
I've never studied Faroese in any great detail, but I know that there are massive differences between it and Icelandic as regards pronunciation, so I don't think you should make any assumptions on that front. This forum also covers Norwegian, Swedish and Danish, which is why it's customary to specify the language you're asking about in the title. 

P.S. Sorry if the title _hasn't_ been edited and you did start the title with 'Icelandic:' - then just ignore me.


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## sindridah

Faroese people do speak much differently then us Icelanders, Faroese is much more on the Danish side.

But i wish i could come up with something useful as a Icelandic native speaker but i can't!


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## kemocon

No, it is indeed an edit, and I thank whoever did it.

I'm aware that the difference between the two languages is considerable when it comes to pronunciation, and that one might go so far as say that that _is_ the main difference between the two languages, but with preaspiration being a rare phonological property in the first place, one which isn't in Eastern North Germanic languages anyway, I thought their mere sharing of it signified... more sharing of more properties when it comes to aspiration. You know what, here you go. Problem solved. As to the three continental Scandinavian languages, there are no preaspirates in them as far as I know, and so they are ipso facto irrelevant.

Sindridah, if it is the terminology that bothers you: If you put your hand in front of your mouth then say "eitt" aloud, would there be any puff of air following the T-sound? Or would it be like a "D" in this respect, a "T" with no audible release of air following it? How about the "kk" in "klukkan?" Would there be any puff following it (them)? Or would it (they) be like a "G" with an "h" before it? I'd really appreciate your input as a native speaker of the language.

Thanks guys.


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## Alxmrphi

> Problem solved. As to the three continental Scandinavian languages,  there are no preaspirates in them as far as I know, and so they are ipso  facto irrelevant.


Faroses, Icelandic and some Northern dialects of Norwegian have preaspiration.


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## Magb

Preaspiration is actually present all over the place in Scandinavia, especially in central Sweden. It tends to be less obligatory than it is in Icelandic and Faroese, but some dialects have systems very similar to the insular varieties. Google for stuff like _north germanic preaspiration_, _scandinavia preaspiration_, etc., for details on where preaspiration is found.


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## kemocon

Oh, interesting! I guess that does make the wording of my question confusing |(, but it does add a whole new level of beauty to Scandinavian languages.

Anyway, googling "Scandinavia preaspiration," I came over this thesis. I just flipped through it, but it definitely looks like it's worth reading. It probably answers my question somewhere in there. Check it out, guys.


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