# сам он / он сам



## j-Adore

Но *сам он*, конечно, с этим не справится.

Но *он сам*, конечно, с этим не справится.


Hi. I think the sentence means "But naturally, he by himself won't be able to deal with it", but what is the difference between these two?


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## Vovan

No difference at all. You can also say:
_Но он, конечно, сам с этим не справится.
Но он, конечно, с этим сам не справится.
Но он, конечно, с этим не справится сам._​


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## j-Adore

@Vovan Hi. Is this word order possible, too?

Но сам он, конечно, не справится с этим.

or: Но он сам, конечно, не справится с этим.


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## Vovan

Yes, it is.


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## j-Adore

Thank you. I'm having trouble capturing the nuances in this sentence.

1)

"But naturally, he* by himself (without any help)* won't be able to deal with it."

Or is it more like: "But naturally, he* himself* *(emphasising "he") *won't be able to deal with it."


2)

"But naturally, he himself *won't be able to* *deal *with it."

Or is it more like: "But naturally, he himself *won't* *deal *with it."


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## Vovan

"_Он сам / сам он"_ here means "on his own" (won't be able to deal/cope with something on his own).


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## Awwal12

It seems that the structure "he himself" isn't possible in Russian; any word order (сам он vs. он сам) will mean here only "he by himself". Emphasizing "сам" works only with nouns (like in сам Николай с этим не справится). Note that "Nikolay won't be able to deal with it by himself" still may use both word orders (although the intonation will be different).


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## Sobakus

j-Adore said:


> Thank you. I'm having trouble capturing the nuances in this sentence.
> 
> 1)
> 
> "But naturally, he* by himself (without any help)* won't be able to deal with it."
> 
> Or is it more like: "But naturally, he* himself* *(emphasising "he") *won't be able to deal with it."


Only context can tell, both are possible with both word orders.


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## Awwal12

Sobakus said:


> Only context can tell, both are possible with both word orders.


Do сам о́н / сама она́ / сам я́ etc. sound right to you? To me they don't, at all.


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## Sobakus

Awwal12 said:


> Do сам о́н / сама она́ / сам я́ etc. sound right to you? To me they don't, at all.


I agree they sound off, but compare _Но са́м он конечно, рисовать не умеет_ - same construction, different context, different default meaning.


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## Awwal12

Sobakus said:


> I agree they sound off, but compare _Но са́м он конечно, рисовать не умеет_ - same construction, different context, different default meaning.


And yet it's not an intensifier ("никто иной как").


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## Sobakus

Awwal12 said:


> And yet it's not an intensifier ("никто иной как").


It means "But he himself (emphasising "he") can't draw", so I don't see any difference from the original sentence.


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## Rosett

A subtle difference can be detected if you take a look at the stressed position: он са́м vs. сам о́н.

The first one would indicate that he isn’t able to accomplish it without help.

The second one would privilege the point that it’s he, and not someone else, who isn’t able to accomplish it.

In print, it may be not very clear, but when you actually say it, the difference is there.


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## Vovan

"Сам" surely can mean "himself" in the sense *"not someone else"* (as opposed to *"on his own")*:
_Он сам мне так сказал. (He himself said it to me.)
Сам директор мне так сказал. (The manager himself said it to me.)
_​But I don't agree with others it's "он" (or the noun) that gets stressed when that is the case.
The second part gets stressed in non-emphatic speech:
_Он *сам* мне так сказал. 
Сам *он *мне так сказал. 
Сам *директор *мне так сказал. 
Директор *сам* мне так сказал. 
Он *сам* и есть директор!
Сам *он *и есть директор!
_​As for "Сам он не умеет рисовать", it's probably a third meaning: *"himself (as compared with (the) others)"*.
_Сам (он) не умеет рисовать, а других поучает.
Он сам ничего не знает, не верь ему!


_​Finally, "сам директор" can mean "директор *собственной персоной*". Or, as Awwal put it, "не кто иной, как". This usage is rather specific: it's a special instance of "not someone else". The noun (and even the personal pronoun) gets stressed indeed; and the overall mood is hyper-emphatic.
_Сам *грабитель* спас ребёнка, когда возник пожар, представлешь себе?!
Сам *он* (и) спас ребёнка, только представь!
*Он*, сам, спас ребёнка!!!_​


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## Awwal12

It seems there is two kind of intensifiers (it probably would be more correct to call the first one "specificator").
1. Х, and not someone else
2. none other than Х himself
In Russian they're opposed mainly by intonation (сам carries the main stress in the first case and passes it to the noun in the second case). Only (1) workd with personal pronouns, of course. Neither should be mixed with "сам" (3) - "on his own".


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## Awwal12

Vovan said:


> _Он *сам* мне так сказал.
> Сам *он *мне так сказал.
> Сам *директор *мне так сказал.
> Директор *сам* мне так сказал.
> Он *сам* и есть директор!
> Сам *он *и есть директор!_​


I'm sorry, but in "non-emphatic speech" (that is, speaking about сам (1)) the main stress is invariably placed on "сам", regardless the word order. And "сам о́н мне так сказал" (here we would have сам (2)) looks positively impossible - unlike with са́м (1) он мне та́к сказал... (the word order, however, implies some continuation).


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