# pronunciation of ひ



## Whodunit

こんにちは､　

The proper pronunciation of ひ is [çi], although I have also noticed that - especially when speaking fast - some people say [ki]. Is this dialectal, mispronounced, or is it just me who must have misheard it? Sometimes, it sounds like something between [çi] and [ki]. I'm not even sure if this makes sense.


----------



## Flaminius

Maybe you can give me an example where /hi/ is realised as [ki]?  I cannot think of an example.  Can what you call something between [çi] and [ki] be [ci]?


----------



## Whodunit

Hi Flam,

thanks for your answer. I've been listening to this song over and over again to acquire the real Japanese pronunciation. Some of their words are clearly pronounced, but some (like hitori_no_) sound strange to me. It sounds as if the word begins with [ki...]. Maybe it is because it's sung, and for songs there are of course different pronunciation rules in every language.

But it could also be dialectal. 



> Can what you call something between [çi] and [ki] be [ci]?


 
[ci] still sounds different from what I hear.


----------



## Flaminius

QuisFecit  ,

I hear somewhere [ki çitori].  In other places the singer may be singing [kitori].  However, her articulation is hardly representative of ordinary Japanese.  It wreaks heavily of the influence of American English.


----------



## sneeka2

Whodunit said:


> I've been listening to this song over and over again to acquire the real Japanese pronunciation. Some of their words are clearly pronounced, but some (like hitorino) sound strange to me.



Now, I just listened to this on my laptop speakers, but I couldn't make out the word _hitori_ anywhere in that song. At least not with the pronunciation I'm used to (starting with a sound very close to the German _ch_ in "ich"). Can you point me to the time in the video where she's supposedly singing _hitori_?

Now I'm afraid my Japanese is even worse than I thought.


----------



## SpiceMan

Hmm. I can't hear any "kitori", just "hitori".

They sing hitori right when the song starts bumping.
tatta hitori no king kong hold me tight (  )

somewhere after the middle of the song, the same verse is sung.

Both times I hear "hitori".


----------



## sneeka2

Ah, now I heard it too, with headphones. =)
Since the original poster is German...

Das klingt für mich wie das ch in ich, [chitori], nicht zu verwechseln natürlich mit "chitori".  Durch die Musik klingt's etwas härter, aber weit entfernt von kitori. Kannst Du Dir nicht besseres Trainingsmaterial suchen? Abgesehen davon, daß das nicht gerade die beste Band ist, sind "JDoramas" oder Filme glaube ich die bessere Alternative, mit ohne Musik und natürlicherer Sprache.


----------



## Whodunit

sneeka2 said:


> Ah, now I heard it too, with headphones. =)


 
Yes, the lyrics are here. Their ローマ字 is somewhat strange, but I can read it and could translate it into kana. 



> Das klingt für mich wie das ch in ich, [chitori], nicht zu verwechseln natürlich mit "chitori".  Durch die Musik klingt's etwas härter, aber weit entfernt von kitori. Kannst Du Dir nicht besseres Trainingsmaterial suchen? Abgesehen davon, daß das nicht gerade die beste Band ist, sind "JDoramas" oder Filme glaube ich die bessere Alternative, mit (?) ohne Musik und natürlicherer Sprache.


 
Well, I would like the others, who are not familiar with German, to be able to converse with us, too. Therefore, I'll answer in English. I can always hear something between [çitori] and [kitori]. You may be right that this is just because of the music. I know what the sound [ç] should sound like, but unfortunately, I can't hear it in the first stanza. It is much clearer in the second.

I don't want to discuss about the band here (maybe in private), but the reason I stumbled across them is that they are played up and down on German music channels. I can't watch any other Japanese songs or series on German TV, so their songs were a good start, I guess. Of course, I know that their Japanese and English are not perfect, but that's ok for me. I'm going to tell you the reasons in private if you want.


----------



## gaer

sneeka2 said:


> Ah, now I heard it too, with headphones. =)
> Since the original poster is German...
> 
> Das klingt für mich wie das ch in ich, [chitori], nicht zu verwechseln natürlich mit "chitori".  Durch die Musik klingt's etwas härter, aber weit entfernt von kitori. Kannst Du Dir nicht besseres Trainingsmaterial suchen? Abgesehen davon, daß das nicht gerade die beste Band ist, sind "JDoramas" oder Filme glaube ich die bessere Alternative, mit ohne Musik und natürlicherer Sprache.


Sneeka, for those who can't read German, let me do a quick translation. It will be fast, so please excuse me if it is not "word for word":

That sounds to me like the ch in ich, [chitori], not to be confused with "chitori" naturally. Because of the music it sounds a bit harder/harsher, but nothing like kitori. Can't you find better practice materials/exercises? Apart from the fact that it's not exactly the best group, "JDoramas" or films, I believe, are better alternatives, with or without music—and of course dialogue.

(PM me if you don't like anything I translated and I'll change it. This is such a small group, I hate the idea that anyone would not be able to read what is written here.) 

Gaer


----------



## sneeka2

Yes, sorry everybody. But since I was referring to the German "ch" sound I thought I'd be easier to keep the whole thing German, since others might not know which sound I'm referring to.
(Although a surprisingly many people seem to be studying/speaking German and Japanese around here. =))


----------



## gaer

sneeka2 said:


> Yes, sorry everybody. But since I was referring to the German "ch" sound I thought I'd be easier to keep the whole thing German, since others might not know which sound I'm referring to.
> (Although a surprisingly many people seem to be studying/speaking German and Japanese around here. =))


We are everywhere!

The pronunciation of almost everything in the Japanese language is a mystery to me. Just consider "ha hi he ho fu". In romaji, this is quite misleading. It makes it seem as though ひ and ふ do not really belong in the same group!

Gaer


----------



## sneeka2

True, because fu is indeed quite different from hi. Just like chi is in the ta column, confuses me every time I try to think of "that ti-kana". ;o)

Every language has it's irregularities, Japanese is no exception.


----------

