# 있는/있다는/있디는



## idialegre

Could someone clear up for me which of the following is correct, and what, if any, are the differences in meaning?

1.) 유라가 피아노를 잘 칠 수 있는 것을 알아요.
2.) 유라가 피아노를 잘 칠 수 있다는 것을 알아요.
3.) 유라가 피아노를 잘 칠 수 있디는 것을 알아요.

(What I want to say is, "I know Yura plays the piano well.")

Thanks very much!


----------



## terredepomme

The first and the second are correct. The second sounds slightly more natural. The third is wrong.


----------



## Superhero1

저는(or 나는) 유라가 피아노를 잘 친다는 것을 알아요. would be better.


Here's the idea:

칠 수 있다는 것 = 칠 수 있다는 사실 = the fact that somebody can play..

친다는 것 = 친다는 사실 = the fact that somebody plays...

'잘' = the meaning of 'well' in this sentence


If I should select one, I would choose the second sentence.

And There's no '*있디는*' in Korean.

*있디는*


----------



## idialegre

Thanks to both of you. As so often seems to be the case with Korean, every question I ask and every answer I get lead to more questions. I'm quite confused by all the different ways of forming gerunds/gerundives in Korean. So if you'll bear with me, let me ask a bit more:

1.) Could I use 치는 것  or  치다는 것 in place of  친다는 것?

2.) In a construction with the past tense, woud the following be correct? 나는 유라가 도착했다는 것을 알아(요). (I know that Yura has arrived.)

Thanks for your patience and help!

(I suspected that *있디는 *was wrong, but I actually saw it written in an e-mail. Must have been a typo.)


----------



## terredepomme

> 1.) Could I use 치는 것 or 치다는 것 in place of 친다는 것?


치는 것 and 친다는 것 are nearly the same. ~ㄴ다는 것 would be more like "the fact that..."
치다는 것 is wrong.


> 2.) In a construction with the past tense, woud the following be correct? 나는 유라가 도착했다는 것을 알아(요). (I know that Yura has arrived.)


Yes.
도착하는 것 -> 도착한 것
도착한다는 것 -> 도착했다는 것


----------



## idialegre

Thank you. I think I understand now. Would you say that 친다는 것 has somewhat the flavor of indirect speech?


----------



## Superhero1

Actually, it's a quite difficult question. We are not made to learn separately the declension of nouns, the conjugation of verbs.. etc.
So I haven't learned the different ways of forming gerunds in Korean, even though I read linguistics and Korean literature at University.

The only thing I can give you is a set of examples with an idea that I realised in the course of middle school education.

치는 것 = 치는 행위 = the act which somebody plays, hits, swims, claps, types, strikes or makes eyes at...etc. http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=38259900
친다는 것 = 친다는 사실 = the fact which somebody plays, hits, swims, claps, types or strikes or makes eyes at...
Therefore, the selection between 치는 것 and 친다는 것 depends on the following verb and the logic of the whole sentence.

I'll give you some examples.

1. 테니스를 치는 것은 건강에 좋다. (we don't say 테니스를 친다는 것은 건강에 좋다. because the act (playing tennis) is good for health)
2. 테니스를 치는 것은 건강에 좋다는 것을 알아요. (we don't say 테니스를 친다는 것은 건강에 좋다는 것을 알아요. because I know the fact that playing tennis is good for health.)
3. 나는 그녀가 테니스를 친다는 것을 알아요. (I know the fact that she usually played tennis, and in this case, it slightly shows that playing tennis is her hobby or ordinary routine.
4. 나는 그녀가 테니스를 치는 것을 알아요. (Unfortunately, we usually use this structure, and it makes sence. it is more close to NOW than the third one.)

The important thing in the third and the fourth sentence is, in terms of given sentences, they have a similar meaning and they can be affected by other adverbs such as 지금, 체육관에서, 친구와 함께.. etc. (note that if you want to make the past tense, you just change the verb form. In this sentence it will be 나는 그녀가 테니스를 쳤다는 것을 알아요.) , 나는 그녀가 내일 친구와 테니스를 친다는 것을 알아요.(or 나는 그녀가 내일 친구와 테니스를 칠 것을 알아요); I know her tomorrow schedue.. *we don't assort rigorously the present tense and future tense
.

Finitely, when we make a gerund sentence, we usually quote the correct sentence or phrase which is practically being used.

e.g. 나는 유라가 피아노를 친다는 것을 알아요. -> 나는 알아요. + 유라가 피아노를 친다. (~는 것)
나는 유라가 피아노를 치다는 것을 알아요. -> 나는 알아요. + 유리가 피아노를 치다(치다 is the infinitive verb form and it is usually conjugated to other form like, 친다, 쳤다, 칠 것이다, 칠 수 있다, 칠 줄 안다(http://krdic.naver.com/detail.nhn?docid=35096200), 칠 만하다......etc. so.. we don't say 나는 유라가 피아노를 치다는 것을 알아요.


I hope this information helps you, idialegre.


----------



## idialegre

Thank you, Superhero. You helped me a lot.


----------

