# جين: مسكر قوي



## Talib

I came across the phrase مسكر قوي as a translation for "gin" on a website. Obviously it's a neologism, but is it widely used at all? And what is its literal meaning? Is it derived from the words سكر and possibly  قوّة؟

شكراً جزيلاً لك

- اسكندر الطالب


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## WadiH

Talib said:


> Obviously it's a neologism


 
"Obviously???"


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## huhmzah

Yes مسكر is related to سكر as in sugar, but it also means "intoxicant" or "liquor" so the whole term would mean "strong liquor" or what's referred to in English as "hard liquor".


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## VicHanson

Talib said:


> I came across the phrase مسكر قوي as a translation for "gin" on a website. Obviously it's a neologism, but is it widely used at all? And what is its literal meaning? Is it derived from the words سكر and possibly  قوّة؟
> 
> شكراً جزيلاً لك
> 
> - اسكندر الطالب



 You are correct, اسكندر, in pointing out the derivation. The word ( قوي) is an adjective and it means strong. The noun would be  (قـُوَّه)  for strength.  



The word مُسْكِر  refers to anything that causes inebriation or intoxication, and is not specific to gin. سَـكِـرَ is the tertiary verb (past tense), and it means became inebriated/intoxicated/drunk. The tertiary  noun   سـُكـْرْ  means inebriation/intoxication/drunkenness. سكران  is a drunk person, and سـِـكـِّيْرْ refers to a habitual drunkard and a tacit reference to an alcoholic. The word كـُحـُولـِي , however, is the more explicit word for alcoholic.

  Thus,  مُـسـْكِـرٌ قـَويٌ means strong intoxicant. The reference to gin, it appears, simply fell through the cracks. And, yes, the usage of this phrase would be very ordinary and widely understood.


  Cheers,
  Vic.


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## Talib

I did know the word سكران. Thank you very much.


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## elroy

I don't think مسكر is related to سكر meaning "sugar."  What would be the relation?

Also, Talib, are you sure that مسكر قوي was given as a _translation_ of "gin" and not an _explanation_?  Because gin is not the only type of hard liquor there is!


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## WadiH

elroy said:


> I don't think مسكر is related to سكر meaning "sugar." What would be the relation?
> 
> Also, Talib, are you sure that مسكر قوي was given as a _translation_ of "gin" and not an _explanation_? Because gin is not the only type of hard liquor there is!


 
Of course it's an explanation.


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## elroy

Wadi Hanifa said:


> Of course it's an explanation.


 I asked because Talib said "I came across the phrase مسكر قوي *as* a translation for "gin" on a website." 

There are many bad translations out there!


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## Talib

I believe the translation merely intended that the term "hard liquor" could be applied to gin. 


> I don't think مسكر is related to سكر meaning "sugar." What would be the relation?


سكر is a Persian loan, I believe.


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## Josh_

VicHanson said:


> The word مُسْكِر  refers to anything that causes inebriation or intoxication, and is not specific to gin. سَـكِـرَ is the tertiary verb (past tense), and it means became inebriated/intoxicated/drunk. The tertiary  noun   سـُكـْرْ  means inebriation/intoxication/drunkenness. سكران  is a drunk person, and سـِـكـِّيْرْ refers to a habitual drunkard and a tacit reference to an alcoholic. The word كـُحـُولـِي , however, is the more explicit word for alcoholic.


Actually, if I am not mistaken the word كحول and its nisba كحولي refer more to alcohol as a chemical, and not so much to alcoholic beverages or to someone who is an alcoholic. 

Thinking about it more, I'm not even sure that كحولي could ever be used to refer to someone who is an alcoholic.


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## elroy

Talib said:


> سكر is a Persian loan, I believe.


 What does that have to do with whether there is a relation between سكر ("sugar") and مسكر ("liquor")? 


Josh_ said:


> Actually, if I am not mistaken the word كحول and its nisba كحولي refer more to alcohol as a chemical, and not so much to alcoholic beverages or to someone who is an alcoholic.


 كحول is used to refer to alcoholic beverages, but I have never come across كحولي used to mean "alcoholic."


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## VicHanson

Josh_ said:


> Actually, if I am not mistaken the word كحول and its nisba كحولي refer more to alcohol as a chemical, and not so much to alcoholic beverages or to someone who is an alcoholic.
> 
> Thinking about it more, I'm not even sure that كحولي could ever be used to refer to someone who is an alcoholic.




 Hello Josh,

  I am going to strongly, though humbly, disagree with you about the usage of the word كحولي as a descriptor for an alcoholic person (as opposed to an alcoholic beverage). Likely, you will mostly find the vocable سكير  or perhaps even سكرجي in older literature as the word that describes an alcoholic person, but the word كحولي is certainly well established in modern medical and rehabilitative lingo. The first time I can remember paying attention to its usage was a good twenty years ago on an Arabic TV station, and I am sure it was in use even longer before that time. I would have posted some references for you, but I believe it’s against forum rules to post URLs without prior moderator approval. As such, I will quote as one example the following snippet from an article I found on a site called  نساء سوريه, which you probably can find on your own through Google without me listing the URL for you. It was the first site that came up when I googled the word كحولي (as typed in Arabic). Here goes:

  Title: !هل أنت كحولي؟
  By: أليسار علي فندي
  Date: 2006-06-09

*كثيرون أدمنوا على الكحول، بدأ بعضهم بالتجربة وشيئاً فشيئاً أصبح كحولياً وخلال النصف الأول من هذا القرن أخذت مشكلة الحكولية تشد الانتباه على أساس كونها معضلة طبية وسيكولوجية، وبذلك عرفت الكحولية كمشكلة طبية.*

*ويهمنا أن نعرف أنه لا صحة في النظر إلى الكحوليين بكونهم ضحايا لمرض لا يمكن اسعافهم وتقديم العون لهم…*



    Let’s have a toast and  hope I did not break any forum rules.

  Cheers,
  Vic.


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## Josh_

Hello Vic,

Well, I suppose it can be used to refer to an alcoholic.  But I wonder how common it is.  I did not receive many Google results when searching for the word with the various pronouns. That it can be used in that manner leads to some confusion for me since I have been told by a few native speakers that it really isn't used that way.  I used to think الكحول and كحولي would be the words for alcohol (undoubtedly an influence of the English word alcohol), but was told that they were not.

Perhaps some native speakers can come and share their thoughts.


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## cherine

With all respect to أليسار علي فندي , the word كحولي as equivalent of "alcoholic" is not a commonly used word.
The common word, to my knoweldge, is sikkiir سكير or مدمن خمر or مدمن كحول/كحوليات 
In a text like this one, I'd use مدمن/مدمنو الخمر instead of سكير because the later has a pejorative meaning which wouldn't fit in a text talking about them as sick people مرضى

And one more note, I personally wouldn't use a preposition after the verb admana, I'd say أدمن الخمر، أدمن الكحول ....


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## Talib

Josh_ said:


> I used to think الكحول and كحولي would be the words for alcohol (undoubtedly an influence of the English word alcohol), but was told that they were not.


The word "alcohol" comes from Arabic, not the other way around, I believe.

At any rate, my guess is that كحولي is "alcoholic" as an adjective, as in "alcoholic beverages."


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## Josh_

Talib said:


> The word "alcohol" comes from Arabic, not the other way around, I believe.


Yes, I realize that.  But English being my native language I was unduly influenced by my understanding of 'alcohol' and the fact that it derives from the Arabic word, which I initially thought could be used the same way as the English word.  That's all I meant.



> At any rate, my guess is that كحولي is "alcoholic" as an adjective, as in "alcoholic beverages."


Yes, I suppose it could be used that way, but I believe more common terms for 'alcoholic beverages' are كحوليات and مشروبات مسكرة .


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