# засупоня



## yuna1207

Hi,

Have you ever heard this word or is it a invention by the author? _*засупоня *_(This is the title of a futurist book, again, this is why i'm asking if it cannot be pure invention)

In some books, it's a name but then I found the verb _*Засупонить*_ (but i don't have any idea of its meaning, no translation given :/), is it linked?


Thanks for your help!


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## Maroseika

Засупоня is an adverbial participle from засупонить - стянуть (ремень). More often is its antonym - рассупонить (ослабить ремень) and рассупониться (расстегнуться, с одеждой в беспорядке).
Initially засупонить meant 'to tighten the hame strap' from супонь - hame strap (part of the harness).

However I don't know whether this засупоня has anything to do with the title of your book. Maybe Засупоня used to walk all wrapped up?


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## yuna1207

Thank you for your explanation  !!!

This helped me to find that it is popular russian word from супонь, so it has something to do with wath you told me , but it actually means someone clumsy (because he cannot handle a harm strap) .


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## morzh

yuna1207 said:


> Thank you for your explanation  !!!
> 
> This helped me to find that it is popular russian word from супонь, so it has something to do with wath you told me , but it actually means someone clumsy (because he cannot handle a harm strap) .




I honestly missed the meaning of this.
Even if "Засупоня" is used as a nickname, it does not carry any hint of clumsiness, either by perceived association or by actual meaning.
How would you figure it means "clumsy"?

The full sentence would help; if it's a one-name title, then maybe somewhere in the text there is an explanation.


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## yuna1207

I don't know neither, that's the mystery of languages 

here is the link towards the explanation:

http://books.google.be/books?id=IUg...k_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAzgU


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## Maroseika

yuna1207 said:


> http://books.google.be/books?id=IUg...k_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAzgU


Hm... This is very strange. What's this link - a book? I failed to find it in the web, as well as any traces of the "folk word" засупоня. Clumsy person would be rather called рассупоня. Maybe this word was invented by Sokolov-Mikitov just as a funny name for a clumsy guy, and only then used by Zamyatin? I'd like to read that tale "Засупоня" but so far failed to find it. Don't you have a link by any chance?


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## yuna1207

That's the only link i found ...


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## Maroseika

But you have the book "Засупоня", right? What's it about? Who is Засупоня?


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## yuna1207

No, I don't have it (otherwise i guess  i would have figured that out , after reading it ) . It's just mentioned in the book I have to translate for my thesis. I cannot let russian word in it, I must find a translation for everything, this is why I asked about it ...


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## dec-sev

yuna1207 said:


> I cannot let russian word in it, I must find a translation for everything...


That's quite a task! May be something like "poor groom" will do. If you're to translate your thesis in French you could use a French equivalent for the Spanish "pobrecito" + "groom" (in French). This will transmit the idea of "... ласково называет его..." May be it's not quite the same, but I can't come up with anything else.


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## yuna1207

dec-sev said:


> That's quite a task!



Indeed , that's the reason why I'm asking so many questions 

mmh, the equivalent of pobrecito + groom, i'm gonna check that, it must be a better translation than what i initially wrote  !


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## lectrice

About *Zasuponya* from Sokolov-Mikitov tale -
http://books.google.ru/books?id=RWN...d=0CBoQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=Zasuponya&f=false


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## Maroseika

Thank you, Lectrice, but we already know the source. What we really need to understand why Засупоня, is the text of this tale. Either the name is based on his character somehow or this is just a funny name and nothing more.


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## dec-sev

yuna1207 said:


> ... it must be a better translation than what i initially wrote  !


I have an even better solution  Just write _Zasuponya _and if your teacher asks you what it is tell her/him: "It's a proper name. Tha's why I haven't translated it". I'm sure your teacher won't be able to prove you wrong


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## Maroseika

This is the worst possible way - "untranslatable pun" and that's all she wrote. 
From what others have provided before we may conclude that Засупоня was not a human being but something or somebody like a "three-eyed pinecone", living in the bog and chasing the cranes. 
From the illustration here http://books.google.ru/books?id=RWNPvcrqYZkC&pg=PA192&lpg=PA192&dq=%D0%B7%D0%B0%D1%81%D1%83%D0%BF%D0%BE%D0%BD%D1%8F&source=bl&ots=qdsVybCCNx&sig=5pUgwP2DUyp8GnbvlJ-Z6SBsfMQ&hl=ru&ei=kZ1mTPHOEMb_lgfS8syeBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CBoQ6AEwAjgU#v=onepage&q=Zasuponya&f=false (click page 17 and scroll up) we may conclude he was named Засупоня exactly for resembling a person tightly fastened, tightened up in his cloth (cone scales), i.e. really Засупоня < засупоненный = туго затянутый, застегнутый.


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## dec-sev

Maroseika said:


> From what others have provided before we may conclude that Засупоня was not a human being but something or somebody like a "three-eyed pinecone", living in the bog and chasing the cranes.


Засупоня -- народное слово, от "супонь" (упряжь) -- растяпа, не умеющий обращаться с упряжью. (см. ссылку выше).
Может слово имеет более одного значения, но то, что мы имеем, вернее, что yuna имеет, -- это только название книги "Засупоня", которое ей нужно перевести. О чем или о ком имеено идет речь, мы можем только гадать. Может и о трехглазом чудовище, а может и о нерадивом конюхе. Так что в данном случае лучше дать расплывчатую информацию (_Zasuponya), _чем информацию, которая может оказаться неверной.


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## Maroseika

The fact that Засупоня looked like three-eyed cone is not a guess but is confirmed by the illustration and small abstract from the tale available in the web. And this doesn't look like having anything to do with a muddler.

And besides, I cannot understand how засупоня could ever mean a muddler, i.e. the one who cannot tighten a strap, if засупонить means 'to tighten a strap'.


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## Nanon

A wild guess: anything to do with sleep? (That might explain clumsiness...)
Because the only other context where I found _засупоня _was this one:


> - Вставай, засупоня! Сегодня я иду на базар с тобой, так как на очереди сад, а трава еще мокрая.
> - Между прочим, я не собираюсь идти на базар, я вчера все купила, - послышался сонный, но уже вредный голос.


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## dec-sev

Maroseika said:


> The fact that Засупоня looked like three-eyed cone is not a guess but is confirmed by the illustration and small abstract from the tale available in the web. And this doesn't look like having anything to do with a muddler.
> 
> And besides, I cannot understand how засупоня could ever mean a muddler, i.e. the one who cannot tighten a strap, if засупонить means 'to tighten a strap'.


If what you're saying is correct it looks like Засупоня is a fairy-tale character intented by Sokolov-Mikitov like Cheburashka created by Uspenskiy. 
That Zamiatin link only obstructed our quest for the truth 
All in all I would advise yuna to use _Zasuponya_.

Hello, Nanon.
I've seen that link, but I'm inclined to think that it was Sokolov-Mikitov to have invented the word. Zamiatin and the author of the book you gave the quote from only used the word their own way, I believe. 
Yuna says it's a title of the book. There are several hits in google what mention Засупоня as Sokolov-Mikitov's book.
If you've googled good enough you might have come across a certain Засупоня among "проститутки Перми"


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## yuna1207

dec-sev said:


> That Zamiatin link only obstructed our quest for the truth
> All in all I would advise yuna to use _Zasuponya_.




And I'll listen to you  .Anyway this thread was interesting, I learned new words


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## Maroseika

Nanon said:


> A wild guess: anything to do with sleep? (That might explain clumsiness...)
> Because the only other context where I found _засупоня _was this one:


This is obviously just a variation of засоня (contaminated with засыпать > засыпоня/засупоня) and coincides with our засупоня just occasionally.
Also look "Засупонь-река"  in "Лимпопо" of T. Tolstaya - another occasional coincidence. http://lib.align.ru/getbook/10996.html


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## Nanon

dec-sev said:


> I've seen that link, but I'm inclined to think that it was Sokolov-Mikitov to have invented the word. Zamiatin and the author of the book you gave the quote from only used the word their own way, I believe.


I was suspecting so myself, but I thought it was good to ask, just in case. So in that place we had a mixture of Sokolov-Mikitov with засыпать. Obvious somehow because the text I quoted from is posterior. 

To Yuna: I doubt anybody will criticise you for using proper nouns .


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