# יש מצב



## hadronic

** Split off from this thread. **

Does the יש מצב ש part als belong to 90's slang ?
And it means "Maybe that" (not sure) and not the plain "there are situations where" (sure) ? I'm asking because precisely I went across this expression the other day, and it could hardly mean something "sure".


----------



## origumi

hadronic said:


> Does the יש מצב ש part als belong to 90's slang ?
> And it means "Maybe that" (not sure) and not the plain "there are situations where" (sure) ? I'm asking because precisely I went across this expression the other day, and it could hardly mean something "sure".


http://he.wiktionary.org/wiki/יש_מצב


----------



## Aoyama

This is a bit off-topic but "iésh matsav shé ..." does not sound so much "slang" to me ...
Probably the point is that with Modern Hebrew being so young, the evolution of the language and the concept of _slang_, coupled with the influence of new emigrants (especially now Russians) in speech, makes it difficult to categorize neologisms (or new expressions).
_Ptsatsa _(pretty girl, knock-out, French = bombe, if I remember well) is another example...
Remember also the example discussed here : "Coccinelle" :
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1676134&highlight=coccinelle


----------



## origumi

יש מצב is slang. Not sure about the origin, yet it sounds very tzabar (native Israeli).


----------



## Aoyama

For me יש מצב ש means (or originally means) : there is a situation/it may happen that ...
Tzabar = sabra ?


----------



## origumi

Tzabar = sabra.

The expression יש מצב became popular first of all in downtown Tel Aviv, military camps, similar places. This is my reason to assume that it's not borrowed from any foreign language but a local invention.

I agree that in first glance it sounds a natural expression. Yet, native speaker intuition says that there's a gap between this and standard Hebrew.

Explanation for Russian immigrants: http://hebrew.moia.gov.il/ZH_Template.aspx?Kod=408&Koteret=%D7%99%D7%A9%20%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%91%20%D7%90%D7%95%20%D7%90%D7%99%D7%9F%20%D7%9E%D7%A6%D7%91&Safa=ru

It also appears in מילון הסלנג המקיף: http://books.google.co.il/books?id=...&resnum=3&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## Aoyama

Thank you for the site.
We learn that if there is *יש מצב* ,there is also (logically)  *אין מצב* ...


----------



## rolmich

I hear mainly the "ein matzav" version which place a strong emphasis on the negative
_Is your sister free to go out with me ? *ein matzav !*_
(forget about it/don't even think about it).


----------



## Aoyama

> _Is your sister free to go out with me ? *ein matzav !*
> _(forget about it/don't even think about it).


That one I can understand, like "no way !".
But then "iésh matsav" (which should be the _opposite_) is not clear to me ...


----------



## rolmich

I would translate "ièsh matsav" by "it could be considered/there is a possibility".
I would not consider this expression as slang, but rather built with quite simple words, and then twisted in a certain direction to get a new meaning.
Just like "haval halazman" (which appears elsewhere in this Forum).


----------



## Aoyama

> I would not consider this expression as slang, but rather built with quite simple words, and then twisted in a certain direction to get a new meaning.


I agree.


----------



## origumi

You miss the point. This is clearly a slang expression, of the kind that may hurt puritan ears. It characterizes specific groups, it's a fashion that comes and goes, it uses simple words in a sophisticating way. To grok it one should look behind the mere words, understand the cultural, social, actual, lingual backgroud.


----------



## Aoyama

> To grok it one should look behind the mere words, understand the cultural, social, actual, lingual background.


Right, if you say so, we'll try to _grok _that ...


----------



## OsehAlyah

origumi said:


> Tzabar = sabra.
> 
> The expression יש מצב became popular first of all in downtown Tel Aviv, military camps, similar places. This is my reason to assume that it's not borrowed from any foreign language but a local invention.
> 
> I agree that in first glance it sounds a natural expression. Yet, native speaker intuition says that there's a gap between this and standard Hebrew.
> 
> Explanation for Russian immigrants: http://hebrew.moia.gov.il/ZH_Template.aspx?Kod=408&Koteret=יש מצב או אין מצב&Safa=ru
> 
> It also appears in מילון הסלנג המקיף: http://books.google.co.il/books?id=...&resnum=3&ved=0CA4Q6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false


Thanks origumi. Great links.


----------



## hadronic

Is the meaning "possibility" of the word מצב regular or slangy ?


----------



## origumi

hadronic said:


> Is the meaning "possibility" of the word מצב regular or slangy ?


I cannot think about such meaning in standard Hebrew.

For Latin there's an interesting similarity between pon- (put, להציב) and pot- (can, אפשר) where both become pos- in several declensions such as positio (מצב) vs. possibilitas (אפשרות). I don't know if it indicates any relation or just a coincidence.


----------



## Aoyama

> For Latin there's an interesting similarity between pon- (put, להציב) and pot- (can, אפשר) where both become pos- in several declensions such as positio (מצב) vs. possibilitas (אפשרות). I don't know if it indicates any relation or just a coincidence.


This one is interesting but maybe a little _farfetched ..._


----------



## origumi

Aoyama said:


> This one is interesting but maybe a little _farfetched ..._


I don't say that the Hebrew slang comes directly from Latin. Just wanted to investigate the possibility that Israeli Romance-language speakers (Spanish, French, Italian, Portuguese) could have invented יש מצב as "it's possible" due to similarity in their mother language. As said before - I believe that this is not the case and the expression's root is pure Hebrew.


----------



## Aoyama

Right.
You can also think of something else :
matsav = situation, iesh matsav = there is a situation (original meaning).
In English, you have the expression "we have a situation (danger/problem) [here]".
So you can/could find here also the _root_ for some "extension" of meaning (from "situation" to "problem, danger" etc).


----------

