# -diği -eceği -mesi



## Ramisadeh

Please help me I always get confused which suffix should I use in which situation. A thourough explanation is most welcome

Some guy told me that -diği is only used when you think that the action has already occured, so it is quite the opposite of -eceği but when to use -mesi then?

Bir ameliyat olduğunu biliyor musun
Bir ameliyat olacağını bilşyor musun
Bir ameliyat olmasını nilşyor musun

I'm not sure whether these examples are correct or not but just wanted to give an example of a phrase I struggle to say everytime. (Please do not tell me to just say Ameliyat var mı? I want to learn how to use these suffixes in other instances)


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## PorFavorDama

Bir ameliyat olduğunu biliyor musun? 
Bir ameliyat olacağını biliyor musun? 
Bir ameliyat ol*ma*sını biliyor musun?  (There can't be such a use in this particular example.)

Despite not being qualified for this, in my opinion, I can say that this suffix "_-ma_" in the 3rd sentence is a nominalization suffix. Which creates a noun from a verb.

For example:

Yürü-*me-y-i *sever misin? - _Do you like walk*ing*? ( That "-i" suffix is of the accusative case, which marks the direct object. "-y" is a buffer letter.)
_
For more example, please see "Fiilden isim yapan ekler".

Hope this sheds some light on it.


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## garipx

First of all:

biliyor musun? = are you knowing? (but, this isn't correct in English, so) = do you know? (this can also be translated as "bilir misin"?)
bir ameliyat = one or a/an operation/surgery.

all about verb "ol+mak" (to+be") : http://www.verbix.com/webverbix/go.php?D1=31&T1=olmakverb "ol+mak"

ol - oldu+unu (past) -> do you know "that" there was a surgery? ("that" conjuction here corresponds to "unu", "oldu+unu". In turkish, no two wovel adjacent to each other is allowed, then, "ğ" is added, results in "olduğunu")

ol - olacak+ını (future) -> do you know "that" there will be a surgery? ("that" conjuction here corresponds to "ını", "olacak+ını", "k" softens to "ğ", "results in "olacağını")

ol - olması (simple tense) -> do you know (how) a surgery to be made? (this can also be translated as "bir ameliyat olmak+ı biliyor musun?", people will understand you, but, instead of saying "olmak+ı", if you say "olmayı" or "olmasını", it'll be perfect.

Note that these suffixes are similar to possessive suffixes: eg. "his pen"=kalem+i/kalem+ini
We can also do the same for verbs in turkish. eg. "his came"=geldi+ğ+ini, "his will+come"=gelecek/ğ+ini. "his come"=gelmek/s+ini, etc. However, these uses are usually nonsense in english language in that we use conjuctions such as "that", etc.

Another example with possessive suffixes:
Geldiğini gördüm = I saw "his came" (false in english, but, they say "his coming", "geldiğini" is like that.) Exact traslation: geldiğini gördüm = I saw that he came.
Geleceğini gördüm = I saw "his will+come" (false in english). Exact translation: geleceğini gördüm = I saw that he would come.

<off-topic comment deleted>


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## AngelsRolls

(-) Ameliyat *olduğunu* biliyor musun? (=Do you know that *s/he* *had *an operation?)
(-) Ameliyat *olacağını* biliyor musun? (=Do you know that *s/he* *will have* an operation?)
(-) Ameliyat *olması gerektiğini* biliyor musun? (=Do you know that *s/he must have* an operation?)


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## YaMukPreNseS

Ramisedah
this is a very complicated question for native speakers. They don't know WHY "-mesini bilir misin?" doesn't make sens. They can only say you that doesn't work and can correcte your phrase. As a Turkish natif speaker, I didn't know it for a long time either. By the way when I was learning French I never really understood the subjonctif. (I don't know if you speak French ot another language with a very difficult subjunctive form) When I started to teach Turkish to French people they asked me questions like yours. Then finally, after many translations, I saw that nominalisation with -mesi is used when we use subjunctive form in French (not always but most of the time ). (By the way technically all these forms with -diği, -eceği and -mesi are nominalized forms of the verb. That's why we can add possessive suffixes.) So I know that in English subjunctive form is almost the same as indicatif. But for understanding the use of -mesi in Turkish you should understand the logic of subjunctive form. It's commonly used for talking about wishes and probabilities. So it's the 'imaginary' or 'hypothetical form' of the verb. So the verb is not yet in the world of realities   (If I write longer I will finish by Platon's world of ideas. It is not a joke! Really it's a really philosophical grammar topic.) One upon a time I tried to learn Arabic and I remember a little bir of something like that in nominalization of the verb but now I'm not capable of explaining it on Arabic. 
By the way, the explanation given to you about -diği is not complete. It is for the present tenses and past tenses. So that's why for some phrases English (and French too) has a clearer meaning than Turkish:
Ex:
''Bebeğin uyuduğunu biliyorum'': ''I know that the baby is sleeping.'' But the translation could also be '' I know the baby has slept / slept''

Only -eceği is for the future.
Ex:
''Bebeğin uyuyacağını biliyorum'' : '' I know the baby will sleep''

And as I tried to explain, -mesi is the timeless form for wishes or hypothesis.
ex:
''Bebeğin uyumasını istiyorum'' : ''I want the baby sleep'' (I'm not sure but the fact the verb sleep ıs not conjugated here can be a clue. We can't say ''I want baby is sleeping.'' in English because the sleeping action is not a realized action. İt's just the wanted action)

So I wish I was clear enough. My English is not very sharp. Sorry if you see some mistakes.


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## analeeh

To try and get this back on topic:



garipx said:


> ol - oldu+unu (past) -> do you know "that" there was a surgery? ("that" conjuction here corresponds to "unu", "oldu+unu". In turkish, no two wovel adjacent to each other is allowed, then, "ğ" is added, results in "olduğunu")



_olduğunu_ is not _oldu _+ _-unu_, it's _ol-duk-u(n)-u _with a possessive and an accusative suffix, as we can demonstrate by some replacement exercises: _olduklarını_ 'that they became', or _olduğundan_ (_eminim_). Describing it as past is not only misleading morphologically but also confusing for learners because _-duk_ can be either present or past: _ne olduğunu biliyorum_ can be 'I know what it is'; _çalıştığım için_ can be 'because I work'.

The difference between _-diği_ and _-eceği_ is tense based as Pamuk says. _-diği _is present or past whilst _-eceği_ is future. But whether the form should be past/present or future is not necessarily to do with the actual time as compared with the present moment, but with the time of the main clause it's associated with. So you can say for example _vardığımızda_ 'when we arrive, as soon as we arrive' even for a future moment: _vardığımızda ben sana haber veririm_ 'I'll let you know when we arrive'. Or for example _alarmın çalacağını hiç düşünmemiştim_ 'I hadn't thought at all that the alarm would go off'. This should make sense to you though since the same phenomenon exists in Arabic (much harder for English natives).

The _-mA_ verbal noun with personal suffixes, as pamuk says, is usually used in ways similar to the subjunctive in French (or in spoken Levantine Arabic, the present tense without _b-_). This is a good guideline, but there are lots of constructions you just have to learn from usage.


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## Ramisadeh

Thanks everyone for all your efforts ... One thing though, if I wanted to say:
Do you know whether there is an operation or not today

Can I say it like this:
Bugün bir ameliyat olup olmadığını biliyor musun?


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## Rallino

Ramisadeh said:


> Can I say it like this:
> Bugün bir ameliyat olup olmadığını biliyor musun?



Yes, you can.


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