# 目/眼



## Ilmen

皆さん、こんばんは。

I have seen the topic of Pacerier about the slight difference between 眠る  and 寝る, which reminded me that I know some kanji whose I don't know the difference of meaning, me too, mainly these two ones: 目 and 眼 which both mean 'eye', for augh I know. However, I guess there is also a slight difference between them.
So, what about them?
よろしくお願いします。


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## translationbykako

Hi http://forum.wordreference.com/member.php?u=449924Ilmen-san,

  What a great question! 

  Basically both characters  *眼* and* 目* have the same meaning. 
  However, each character is used in different situations/contexts. 

*眼* is used in the *medical or physical context*. It indicates the eye as an instrumental part of a creature in order for it to see/watch/view. I think the best translation for 眼 is “ocular”.   
  For example, 

眼鏡 Megane...Eyeglasses
眼科 Ganka...Eye Doctor/Optometrist
眼球 Gankyuu...Eyeball


  On the other hand,  *目* is used in the *mental/emotional and day-to-day context*. It also indicates the eye as a way for a person to think. When 目 is used in the sentence, eyes are treated as "the window to the soul_"._

  For example, 

目がない Me Ga Nai...Loving something so much that one loses its ability to think. 
目線 Mesen...Direction of the eyes. Look of the eyes.
目が点になる...Being startled. Being surprised.



  Hope it helps, ;-)


  Best Regards,
  Kako


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## YangMuye

In fact, 眼 is the eyeball of your 目(eye), although both 漢字 are 訓読ed as め.
眼 have another reading, まなこ(means 目の子).
It's also the most important part of something, read as がん.


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## Ilmen

あなたたちの答えにありがとうございます。

You taught me a lot about that.  For 眼 read as まなこ, I knew, but I didn't know that it might have other readings. There is the context in which I found it (it's the description of the Red Eye Black Dragon of Yu-Gi-Oh!):


> 真紅の眼を持つ黒竜。怒りの黒き炎はその眼に映る者全てを焼き尽くす。


It's strange that 眼 is used instead of 目 in such a context. :/


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## Ilmen

By the way, I wouldn't want to be off-topic, but why, in the previous sentence, 「黒き炎」 is used instead of 「黒い炎」? Is it pronounced as くろきほんおお? Thank you for advance.


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## YangMuye

It's classic Japanese.
黑き(もの)＝黑い(もの)
黑し(。)＝黑い(。)

And I'm afraid that the 眼 here should be read as め.
怒（いか）りの黒（くろ）き炎（ほむら）はその眼（め）に映（つく）る者（もの）全（すべ）てを焼（や）き尽（つ）くす。
(I'm not sure, you'd better refer to the author's pronunciation guide)

ほむら is just more literary than ほのお.


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## Ilmen

Oh, I see.  Thank you for your answer. ^^  So, the kanji 眼 is read as め, instead of まなこ like I  thought. So in which type of circumstances it is read as まなこ?
Besides, I thought 「炎」 was pronounced as ほのお (I mistyped it in my  preview post, sorry), I didn't know it could be another reading here.
For the remaining words, it seems my reading was correct. 
Although I'm not sure about 「黒竜」, is it read as くろりゅう or have it another reading? (こくりゅう?)


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## almostfreebird

Ilmen said:


> Although I'm not sure about 「黒竜」, is it read as くろりゅう or have it another reading? (こくりゅう?)



It should be read as "こくりゅう", however it is an uncommon word unless you read books like "Yu-Gi-Oh!". 

When you describe "black dragon" in Japanese,  you usually say 
"黒い竜（くろいりゅう）"　or "ブラック・ドラゴン”, which is much more understandable to people in general just like "レッド・ドラゴン".

Example:

Betty: きのう　ヘンナ夢　見たの。　I had a weird dream last night.

Beth: なに？　教えて！ What is it? Tell me.

Betty:　黒い竜（くろいりゅう）とキスしてたの。 I was kissing a black dragon.


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## Ilmen

Hello AlmostFreeBird-san, and thank you.
So, it is a kind of one-word description using the etymological power of kanjis, instead of a sequence of words and adjectives.  It seems I guessed right with こくりゅう, thanks for the help. ^^
ブラック・ドラゴン would be more understandable than 黒い竜?! Why loan words would be more undersandable than native words like this? It is just a fashion speaking or alike?
By the way, the word "ヘンナ" you just used is doubtlessly a loan word too, but I cannot figure out which english word it could came from, certainly not from 'weird', isn't it?

And, what about the difference of circumstances for both readings of 眼, between め and まなこ?


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## almostfreebird

Ilmen said:


> ブラック・ドラゴン would be more understandable than 黒い竜?! Why loan words would be more undersandable than native words like this?



I'm sorry my sentence was sloppy and confusing. I noticed "ブラック ドラゴン" or 
"レッド ドラゴン" sounds and looks movie titles, which are "proper noun". 

黒い竜(kuroi ryû) is much more familiar and suitable word to describe black dragon than 黒竜(kokuryû) just like 赤い竜(akai ryû)　is a lot familiar than 赤竜(sekiryû).





Ilmen said:


> By the way, the word "ヘンナ" you just used is doubtlessly a loan word too, but I cannot figure out which english word it could came from, certainly not from 'weird', isn't it?



Sorry, I should have written 変な（へんな）. http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/srch/all/変な/m0u/





Ilmen said:


> And, what about the difference of circumstances for both readings of 眼, between め and まなこ?



Few Japanese except linguists could explain the difference between 眼 and 目.
I just can offer you some relatively popular idioms(a pair of kanji):

眼力(gánriki) means insight.
目ぢから（目力）(mejíkara) means inner strength(power) that one's eyes impress.

眼科医(gánkái) means eye doctor.
目医者(meísha) means eye doctor too, but sounds rude.
目のお医者さん(méno oíshasan) sounds soft and polite, and is recommended.

The word "まなこ" is rarely, almost never used, 
however there is this popular idiom.

example:  警察は血まなこで逃亡犯を捜している。　Police are searching for a fugitive "with bloodshot eyes"(that is, "in a frenzy").

"血まなこ(chimanako)" literally means bloodshot eyes.


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## Ilmen

Okay, I think you answered all my questions, thank you very much. ^^
I didn't know that "まなこ" is rarely used, excepted for some idiomes, I take note of that. Thank you again!

The topic is close, so. ^^

... I wonder just a last little thing. Why do you write "gánkái" (眼科医) with acute accents? It is not the macron diacritic (ā) for long vowel, isn't it?


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## Flaminius

Actually, the accent patter for 眼科医 is gańkaì (or to indicate the pitch of all four morae, LHHL), where the pitch is raised at the moraic N and lowered at /i/.


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## almostfreebird

This page might be helpful to know how to pronounce 眼科医(gankai).
http://japanese.about.com/library/bl_occupation.htm
眼科医 is not on the list, but "bengoshi", "kangofu" "kenchikuka", "ginkouin", "enjinia"; these words have something similar in pronunciation.


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## almostfreebird

Flaminius said:


> Actually, the accent patter for 眼科医 is gańkaì (or to indicate the pitch of all four morae, LHHL), where the pitch is raised at the moraic N and lowered at /i/.



gańkaì(the pitch is raised at the "n")

That way of pronouncing(raising pitch at "n") sounds very theatrical to me.

When I pronounce "弁護士(bengoshi)":

ben is pronounced like Ben in Benjamin.
go is pronounced like go in gossip.
shi is pronounced like shi in ship.

Likewise,  When I pronounce 眼科医(gankai):

gan is pronounced like Gung in _Gung Ho_.
kai is pronounced like ki in kite.

I never raise pitch at "n".
Of course actors and actresses would raise pitch at "n" on stage(which sounds theatrical).


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## q_006

I have a question about the kanji for this sentence. This is from the Claymore anime and is described the Claymore (female warrior).

The anime says the phrase as: gingan no majo. Subtitles in the anime says that means: "silver eyed witch". A guy translated as such: 銀眼の魔女. Google says that sentence is pronounced as: gin me no majo. Now I know the kanji of "me" as 目. When I put 銀目の魔女 in Google, it says that translates as: "silver eyed witch" too. So what is the difference between: 銀眼の魔女 and 銀目の魔女? Also, what's the difference between: 眼 and 目?


* I am aware that Google Translate gives accurate translations only for very simple questions.


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## almostfreebird

I found the link:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1946859



Just excerpt:

眼力(gánriki) means insight.
目ぢから（目力）(mejíkara) means inner strength(power) that one's eyes impress.


眼科医(gánkái) means eye doctor.
目医者(meísha) means eye doctor too, but sounds rude.
目のお医者さん(méno oíshasan) sounds soft and polite, and is recommended.

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My conclusion is that Few Japanese except linguists could explain the difference between 眼 and 目.


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