# I'm going on holidays in a week



## L3P

Hello!

Can I translate 'I`m going on holidays in a week' as  一个星期以后，我放假?
I`m not sure it`s correct because all I`ve found for 放假 is 'dismiss (someone) for the holidays',
so I can`t seem to be the doer of the verb 放, but it should be the school etc. Or can I? 
That`s why 我一放假就回国 is obscure to me,is it 'I - when I go on holidays - will go home' or 'I - when they dismiss us for holidays - will go home'?

Thanks very much in advance.


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## lindholmen

It will be better to translate as "我一(个)星期后休假." or "我一周后休假"
休假，is more appropriate than 放假 in this context that you are the decision maker of your holiday, not your school, or the authority.

But I guess the message, 'I`m going on holidays in a week', focuses on the fact that I am away for holiday in a week. Either you are dismissed for holiday or you plan your holiday, it really does not matter in this context. Therefore I think it is ok to translate as 一个星期以后我放假. So people can quickly understand the big message that you want to deliver - I am gone for holiday in a week.

放假 usually indicates dismiss situation for the holidays. The decision maker can be school, company, authority etc. For example，国庆节放假通知（Holiday Notice of National day） . If you want to express that the school dismiss the students, it should be grammatically correct to say 一个星期以后，我*被*放假. But we usually don't say "被" in front of 放假 because this is very weird. E.g. 学生放暑假了 （Students are having summer holiday).  老师也放假了 （Teachers are on holidays too.）

我一放假就回国 indicates the situation of “when they dismiss us for holidays".
我一休假就回国 indicates the situation of "when I decide my holiday".
Please note that in this sentence "我一放假就回国", according to my understanding, the focus is not on the situation of being dismissed. The focus of this sentence is on my intention that as long as I am on holidays I will go back to my country.  “..一...就...” is equivalent to as soon/long as....


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## Skatinginbc

lindholmen said:


> it should be grammatically correct to say 一个星期以后，我*被*放假.


It could be misleading.  First of all, it would not indicate a future tense (e.g., 一个星期以后，我*被*打 vs. 一个星期以后，我*會被*打).  Secondly, 放假 is preferred or positive and therefore does not go well with 被, which usually signals a negative experience (e.g., 被放鴿子).


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## lindholmen

Skatinginbc said:


> 放假 is preferred or positive and therefore does not go with 被, which signals a negative experience .


I agree with that 放假 is usually preferred but I am not sure we don't say “被放假” is because 放假 is positive or 被 signals a negative experience. I think it is just an idiomatic ways of expressing things.
被 is just a signal for the passive voice, which really does not have to signal a negative experience or positive. 

Positive:  
她被评为十大杰出青年。
他被誉为当代最优秀的科学家。
她被授予了奖章。 

Negative:
他被骂了。
他被打了。

Neutral*(could be positive or negative depending on the context):
他被拉入这个圈子。


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## L3P

Thanks,guys,for your help!



lindholmen said:


> 放假 usually indicates dismiss situation for the holidays. The decision maker can be school, company, authority etc.



I think if that`s the case,then why use 被? We already have a passive construction 学生放暑假了 （Students are having summer holiday) - lit. 'Students have been sent on holidays'.
Here 学生放暑假了 = 学生被放暑假了 (double passive). Otherwise it would be 学生休暑假了 Right?


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## Skatinginbc

lindholmen said:


> I am not sure we don't say “被放假” is because 放假 is positive or 被 signals a negative experience.


The overwhelming majority of "被放假” found on the internet concerns a negative experience.  For example, 临沂工人被放假苦等近30年.


lindholmen said:


> Neutral*(could be positive or negative depending on the context):他被拉入这个圈子。


The overwhelming majority of "被拉入" also involves a negative experience.  他被拉入医务室进行体检。经过一番折腾，唐老鸭如愿拿到了军服，进入军营。
被 connotes "unwillingly" or "suffer", which is intrinsically negative.


lindholmen said:


> Positive: 她被评为十大杰出青年。他被誉为当代最优秀的科学家。


These structures are modern products.  Classical 邢夫人號娙娥, 眾人謂之娙何 vs. Modern 邢夫人被冊封娙娥的爵號, 邢夫人被稱为娙何, 被叫做娙何.  They all have something in common: They are appositive in nature.


lindholmen said:


> 她被授予了奖章。


I don't like that sentence.


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## lindholmen

L3P said:


> 学生放暑假了 （Students are having summer holiday) - lit. 'Students have been sent on holidays'. Here 学生放暑假了 = 学生被放暑假了 (double passive). Right?


Yes and no. Yes I understand your points, but you should remember it is almost never correct to say "被放暑假" or "被放假".  学生放暑假了 = 学校给学生放暑假.  

Sorry for the misleading explanation that "If you want to express that the school dismiss the students, it should be grammatically correct to say 一个星期以后，我*被*放假 but...." Let me put this way:
1. Always use 放假 in active voice, e.g.  1. 学生放假了. 2. 我还没放假。 It is very very rare to say "....被放假". 

2. To some extent, 放假 may be interpreted as a passive act, as it has been indicated in the "dismiss" explanation.  For example: 1. 两周后我放假 (because the company dismisses me for holiday)。2. 学生放假了 (because the school dismisses the students for holiday)。
But don't get this impression that it has an intrinsic passive form. For example, it is also correct to say : 1. 两周后公司放假( the company will dismiss us for holiday)。 2.  学校放假了 (the school dismisses students and teachers for holiday )


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## L3P

Thanks a lot,lindholmen and Skatinginbc. I got it about the 被 thing and the passive voice thing. Let`s forget about them .What I`m trying to understand is this. It`s obvious that in the sentence 学校放假了   学校 is the subject and 放假了 is the verb. But I have the impression that in 学生放假了 学生 isn`t the subject but the direct object of the verb 放假了,like lindholmen noted "学生放假了 (the students have been dismissed by the school)= 学校给学生放假 (the school gave the students a holiday)".If you,guys,confirm or deny this,I`d be more than happy.


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## Skatinginbc

L3P said:


> I`m going on holidays in a week


再過一个星期我就放假了


L3P said:


> 放假 is 'dismiss (someone) for the holidays'


It applies to "放 + somebody + 假".  When there is no object in between 放 and 假, 放假 as a word is intransitive (= 'have a vacation, have a holiday') and therefore has no passive form.
It's like 我放学回家..., not 我*被*放学回家...


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## lindholmen

Skatinginbc said:


> The overwhelming majority of "被放假” found on the internet concerns a negative experience. For example, 临沂工人被放假苦等近30年.


Firstly, in our everyday Mandarin, 被放假 is a very weird expression. In this content of the news,  临沂工人被放假苦等近30年 , the editor didn't write this again but used something like "工人们先放假回家".
Secondly, although it is almost never correct to say 被放假，but in some cases it is correct to say so. In fact, in such cases, 被放假 = 被(要求)放假. "被" in such cases is a sarcastic or ironical usage for condemnation purpose (How ironical it would sound if it is written like the workers are required to take vocations for 30 years so they cannot get a dime from the company?). Such a sarcastic expression, "被放假", is very suitable to be an eye-catching title to voice concerns about the absurd situation.
Regarding the original questions, I would strongly recommend that a Mandarin beginner should avoid using "被放假".



Skatinginbc said:


> The overwhelming majority of "被拉入" also involves a negative experience. 他被拉入医务室进行体检。经过一番折腾，唐老鸭如愿拿到了军服，进入军营。
> 被 connotes "unwillingly" or "suffer", which is intrinsically negative.


被 just signifies the passive voice but it DOES NOT necessarily mean something negative. If you check 新华字典 for this character，it is clearly as "用在动词前，表示受动". It is definitely NOT intrinsically negative.
被拉入could involve negative experience but it also could be neutral or positive depends on the context :
我们成立了汉语学习小组，她也被拉了进来。
玉米也被拉入文玩圈



Skatinginbc said:


> These structures are modern products.


Modern or classical is not my focus when I am trying to telling a beginner that 被 is not a signal for negative experience. At least you would probably have implicitly agreed in the sentences of "被评为十大杰出..被誉为当代最优秀..", positive experiences comes after 被. In fact, 被 is massively used in the following news for positive experiences:
多伦多再次被评为全球最宜居城市
王改亭等10位市民被评为“十佳爱心人物”，邓雪娣等10个家庭被评为“十佳爱心家庭”，深圳市地铁集团有限公司等10家企业被评为“十佳爱心企业”，福田区园岭街道鹏盛社区等10个社区被评为“十佳爱心社区”
被誉为加拿大硅谷的滑铁卢市

For classical, there are numerous ways to express the passive voice, even without using 被. For examples:
1. 于 - “不拘于时” 《师说》
“激于义而死焉者” 《五人墓碑记》
2. 为 - "为秦人积威之所劫" 《六国论》
3. Other cases, without using 被 but it is still passive: “戍卒叫 函谷举” 《阿房宫赋》
“帝感其诚” 《愚公移山》
....




Skatinginbc said:


> I don't like that sentence.


Here is some cases to prove 被 can be used positively and non-appositively.
The overwhelming use of "被授予" in news is strong evidence that 被 is not intrinsically negative:
湖北97岁抗战老兵被授予卫国战争纪念奖章
中国34位学僧被授予佛教教育首批学士学位纪念奖章

There are many other cases of using 被 + verb to express non-negative experience:
In a Mandarin grammar book, you could easily find such expressions "这个词常被用于以下情景" *(this word is typically used in the following situations). 被 is used neutrally.
Some other cases: 被录取, 被珍藏...


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## lindholmen

L3P said:


> Thanks a lot,lindholmen and Skatinginbc. I got it about the 被 thing and the passive voice thing. Let`s forget about them .What I`m trying to understand is this. It`s obvious that in the sentence 学校放假了   学校 is the subject and 放假了 is the verb. But I have the impression that in 学生放假了 学生 isn`t the subject but the direct object of the verb 放假了,like lindholmen noted "学生放假了 (the students have been dismissed by the school)= 学校给学生放假 (the school gave the students a holiday)".If you,guys,confirm or deny this,I`d be more than happy.



I would definitely agree with Skatinginbc that  放假 has no passive form. 
It has the meaning of "have a vacation or holiday" : 学生放假了。The students are having a holiday. As far as I concerned in English (correct me if I am wrong), the subject of vocation is usually people. e.g. I planned a vocation. The teacher is having a vacation. 
But it is wired to literally translated as "The company/school is having a vacation/holiday during the national holidays", while in mandarin it is absolutely okay to say "国庆期间，公司放假" or "国庆期间，学校放假".


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## L3P

谢谢大家回复！


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## Skatinginbc

我結婚了 'I am married' (passive voice?  Nay, more like an adjective to me) ≠ 我被結(劫)婚了.
我明天放假 'I am off tomorrow' (somewhat like an adjective) ≠ 我明天被放假.
我放3天假 ==> 我 is the subject, 放假 (= 休假, 度假) is in the active voice, like 你毀約 ≠ 你被毀約.

明天是國慶日, 放假不上班 ==> 誰放誰的假? 明天是國慶日 + 明天(=國慶日)不用上班 (很多人明天都不用上班).  The underlying structure is NOT 明天是國慶日 + 明天(=國慶日)被放假不上班.
明天會放晴 ==> 誰會被放晴?  There is really no point to get 被 involved.  放晴 is in the active voice.

鳄龟放生, 鸳鸯被吃 (鳄龟吃鸳鸯) ≠ 鳄龟被放生, 鸳鸯吃 (鸳鸯吃鳄龟)


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## SuperXW

I think the word "passive" itself sounds negative in a way. If you do something "passively", you are more likely to do it "unwillingly". That's why the structure could naturally bring up some negative speculations.

In recent years, 被... is even used as an Internet slang structure to imply that someone was wronged, or some data was faked by the government or authority.
http://news.sohu.com/s2009/justtobe/
When you connect a proactive verb to 被, the message would become self-contradictory. For example, 被自杀 "be suicided", 被就业 "be gotten job offers". It implies the people "suicided" or "got offers" only because the authority arranged so.

Nonetheless, I like the modern neutral usage of 被. Why must we differentiate wordings for positive and negative things...


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## lindholmen

SuperXW said:


> Nonetheless, I like the modern neutral usage of 被. Why must we differentiate wordings for positive and negative things...


Since you mention this please allow me to elaborate a bit.
There is no need to accentuate 被 as a signifier of positive, neutral, or negative things, because it really depends on the context. But there is something more interesting to ponder rather than its inclination.
As a new member of this forum, I have a genuine interest to help Mandarin learners and the community with my modest contribution. In my humble opinion, impartial advice and guidance, meticulous prudence and dialectic reasoning might be the most important code for the linguistic explanation, or maybe all types teaching-learning. My professional background is deeply rooted in language, which is a very broad discipline that can be way beyond linguistics but pertinent to the context and even social factors. We, the repliers, might be all native speakers in Mandarin but we might have different dialects, preferences over idiomatic expression&phrase, and even some parts of the culture. Diversity itself might be one facade of charm of the language that people may gradually appreciate and benefit from in a learning process. The famous Chinese saying,  "师者，所以传道受业解惑也...闻道有先后，术业有专攻", always motivates me to reflect rigorously whenever I see an unanswered thread or divergence among opinions, although I myself could hardly be qualified as a Mandarin teacher. It is rather important to present a big picture of the usage to learners with a rigorous attitude of scholarship that we shall all possess. With all due respect, that's the underlying philosophy of my initiative act by responding with "被 really does not have to signal a negative experience or positive" in the first place, to contradict the conception which considers 被 as a negative signifier. If fortunately someone who is studying Mandarin reads the whole discourse on "被" and reflects upon the usage in one way or the other, I think that aim's already achieved.


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## Skatinginbc

"被" means 「遭遇, 遭受, 蒙受」 "to suffer from", which is intrinsically negative (e.g., 唐· 白居易《琵琶行》妝成每被秋娘妒, 宋· 辛棄疾《永遇樂》風流總被雨打風吹去, 明末《包公案》我非盜也,乃醫者,被其所誣執到此). ==> 遭人妒忌, 遭到風吹雨打, 遭人誣執.  There are many ways to convey the "passive" notion in Classical Chinese.  For example, 受 "to receive" and 為 "be", like English "be", do not automatically imply negativity or positivity. 被, being one of the "passive" devices, is however associated with negativity.
Compare: 受(= receive)其統領, 為(= be)其所統領 vs. 被(= suffer)其統領; 受(= receive)人指點 (= 接受指示、引導 or 指點迷津) vs. 被(= suffer)人指點 (= 遭人指點, 議論、批評、挑毛病).

Although "被" is commonly used for the passive voice in modern Chinese, it has a strong negative flavor (這首歌被唱得___e.g., 這麼難聽) in constructions where the active, rather than the passive voice, is expected (這首歌唱得___).
話說得有技巧 vs. *話被說得有技巧* (被 is not only redundant but also a bad choice of word here), 話被說得這麼難聽 (good).

In the case of 放假, the active voice is usually expected (e.g., 我明天放假).  If 被 is added (e.g., 我明天被放假), the connotation of "suffer" automatically comes into play.  And thus 我明天被放假 either is ungrammatical or demands a new, negative interpretation for "放假".


L3P said:


> I have the impression that in 学生放假了 学生 isn`t the subject but the direct object of the verb 放假了,like lindholmen noted "学生放假了 (the students have been dismissed by the school)= 学校给学生放假 (the school gave the students a holiday)".


學堂放(= 搁置暫停)学, 學校放(= stop, take a break for)寒假; 老板放(= grant 准, release 释放)我兩天假, 我明天放(=搁置暫停常規 break the routine, take a break for)假
学生放假了 The students are breaking their routine for holidays.==> The students are having holidays.
Compare:
學堂放(= 释放解散 dismiss)学生回家, 學生 = students
學堂放(= 搁置暫停 break)學, 學 = study, learning


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## ElGarcia

lindholmen said:


> There is no need to accentuate 被 as a signifier of positive, neutral, or negative things, because it really depends on the context.



I generally agree with you, lindholmen, though in the case of 被 I think this discussion reflects a latent doctrine in English (especially in business/professional writing) that avoids the passive as plague. Sometimes MS Word on those office computers would be set to marking out passive sentences for "possible revision". I guess the business world just values "being active" too much, so the passive voice is considered as lame/weak/unimpressive and, well, for a legitimate reason. Moreover there is the argument that use of the passive voice sometimes could create confusion as the subject is unclear. However, when the subject is obvious or unknown I see no problem in using the passive voice to describe a positive/neutral experience, at least in leisure/creative writing. Also I agree with you that, despite the recent sarcastic sense of 被，the passive voice in Chinese is pretty neutral (more so than in English IMO). 被放假 is not colloquial not because 放假 is a positive experience, but because 放假 is idiomatically used as an intransitive verb (or even an adjective at times) in Chinese.



Skatinginbc said:


> Although "被" is commonly used for the passive voice in modern Chinese, it has a strong negative flavor (這首歌被唱得___e.g., 這麼難聽) in constructions where the active, rather than the passive voice, is expected (這首歌唱得___).
> 話說得有技巧 vs. *話被說得有技巧* (被 is not only redundant but also a bad choice of word here), 話被說得這麼難聽 (good).



I'm not sure if there are regional differences here (I'm from northern China) but I almost never hear 話被說得這麼難聽 etc. We would say 这话说得太难听了/这歌唱得太难听了 or 话都说得这么难听了（还不动手？）
I agree that 被 can emphasize the sense of suffering in cases where the objects indeed undergo bad things. However I think you've ignored many common expressions in Chinese to assert that 被 is intrinsically negative. For example: 爱与被爱不一定成正比，被宠爱的都有恃无恐。BTW 鳄龟被放生 sounds perfectly fine to me, much better than 鳄龟放生（this only makes sense because we know the subject of 放生 is usually human. But what if a tiger caught a rabbit and then let it go?)


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## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> I almost never hear 話被說得這麼難聽 etc. We would say 这话说得太难听了...


Perhaps you didn't get my point.  As I've said already, the active voice, like that in your examples, is expected or the norm.  It is the passive voice that is highly unusual and therefore marked (i.e., emphasized).  Because of 被, the sense of "suffer" kicks in (e.g., 好的東西被糟蹋了).  Compare:
(他的這首)歌唱得太难听了≠ (這原本好聽的)歌被唱得這麼難聽
(他的這些)话说得太难听了≠ (這原本好聽的)話被說得這麼難聽
這话说得太难听了 ==> 這话不中聽
這話被說得這麼難聽 ==> 糟蹋了這些话


ElGarcia said:


> 鳄龟被放生 sounds perfectly fine to me


What I tried to demonstrate is the contrast:
(1) 被 + positive: 被 is often optional, e.g., 鳄龟放生後並無適應不良的跡象(good). 
(2) 被 + negative: 被 is always mandatory. 鸳鸯吃 ≠ 鸳鸯被吃


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## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> Perhaps you didn't get my point. As I've said already, the active voice, like that in your examples, is expected or the norm. It is the passive voice that is highly unusual and therefore marked (i.e., emphasized). Because of 被, the sense of "suffer" kicks in (e.g., 好的東西被糟蹋了).



I did get that point. However I think in your first two examples 说话 & 唱歌 the use of 被 is as unusual in a passive voice as it would be in the active voice. As for your second example 鳄龟放生，you are comparing two structurally different verbs 放生 and 吃。放生 is more similar to our example 放假 here that can be used with or without 被，while 吃 is not. It really has nothing to do with the negative/positive implications of the two verbs. We can easily find examples that do not conform to the positive（被 is optional） versus negative （被 is mandatory） rule:

她被破格提拔（positive）≠ 她破格提拔（被 cannot be omitted here）
死囚已经被处决了（negative）= 死囚已经处决了（被 can be omitted without confusion）

To sum it up, I understand that the passive voice, to some, may naturally incite negative feelings. We may prefer to be the subject rather than the object of an action for many reasons (compare 主动出击 and 被动挨打）. However that doesn't necessarily establish a linkage between 被 and bad things, nor should this bias prevent people from using 被 in positive circumstances. Your logic can be extended to another expression of the passive voice in Chinese, 受, which is arguably more used with negative verbs than 被：
受伤 受辱 受害 受罚
But we also frequently use it in positive cases: 广受赞誉 深受爱戴 大受好评 受宠若惊
And neutral phrases: 受力 受光 接受

So, I don't think there is a necessary linkage there.


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## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> Because of 被, the sense of "suffer" kicks in (e.g., 好的東西被糟蹋了). Compare:
> (他的這首)歌唱得太难听了≠ (這原本好聽的)歌被唱得這麼難聽
> (他的這些)话说得太难听了≠ (這原本好聽的)話被說得這麼難聽



In that case, I think the opposite also holds. "这歌被你唱得真好听啊“（歌原本不好听）”这话被你一说都变好听了“（原本不是好话）
If 被 is omitted in these sentences, it would suggest as if the positive outcomes are expected. （歌/话本来就好听）


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