# The definite article with airport names



## Hotmale

Hello,
Is it true that "the" is _always _omitted in names of airports? The study of articles has taught me that there are exceptions in almost every case .

Thank you.


----------



## maxiogee

Hotmale said:


> Hello,
> Is it true that "the" is _always _omitted in names of airports? The study of articles has taught me that there are exceptions in almost every case .
> 
> Thank you.



Can you give us an example of what you're thinking about?
"The" is not used in many proper nouns — JFK Airport, Grand Central Station, Dublin Airport, Liverpool Street Station.

It's difficult in this sort of a case to be positive about a 'negative' concept.


----------



## Hotmale

Hi Maxiogee,
I've read in my book that in case of aiports the article is always omitted, e.g _His plane is due to land at Heathrow. 
_I would like to trust this rule, because I've already come across some that I would like to forget about.
Articles are a problem for me, esp. articles before proper names, so any strong rule is a great help for me.
Therefore, I would like someone to confirm that indeed names of airports don't take "the", and even if there are a few exceptions (like _The Hague_ in the names of towns), the above rule  applies in  most cases .

With best wishes,
Hotmale


----------



## CatStar

Off the top of my head I can't think of any airports that take an article.  Even in the case of airports named after someone you would still omit the article ie 
_The plane's due to arrive in half an hour at Charles de Gaulle airport._
_Fog has disrupted departures at George Best airport._

Have just looked through a list of airports names and none seem to take an article so I would say you can count on that rule! 

Cat


----------



## Hotmale

CatStar said:


> Off the top of my head I can't think of any airports that take an article.  Even in the case of airports named after someone you would still omit the article ie
> _The plane's due to arrive in half an hour at Charles de Gaulle airport._
> _Fog has disrupted departures at George Best airport._
> 
> Have just looked through a list of airports names and none seem to take an article so I would say you can count on that rule!
> 
> Cat



Thanks a lot CarStar,
have you seen this? What to think of this one  ?


----------



## CatStar

Hotmale said:


> Thanks a lot CarStar,
> have you seen this? What to think of this one  ?


 
The article here is not referring to the airport, it refers to the guide. I can see how you got confused though!

Cat


----------



## maxiogee

Hotmale said:


> Therefore, I would like someone to confirm that indeed names of airports don't take "the", and even if there are a few exceptions (like _The Hague_ in the names of towns), the above rule  applies in  most cases .


CatStar is correct. There are very few cities/places which take an article and I can think of no airports which would take one in the phrase you mention. There is only one Heathrow Airport (there are several terminals, but only one airport), so there would never be a need to indicate that a plane will land at the Heathrow Airport.


----------



## Hotmale

CatStar said:


> The article here is not referring to the airport, it refers to the guide. I can see how you got confused though!
> 
> Cat



Oh, am I blind or what! 

Thank you a lot, Cat


----------



## Hotmale

maxiogee said:


> CatStar is correct. There are very few cities/places which take an article and I can think of no airports which would take one in the phrase you mention. There is only one Heathrow Airport (there are several terminals, but only one airport), so there would never be a need to indicate that a plane will land at the Heathrow Airport.



Thanks, Maxiogee.


----------



## gaer

Hotmale said:


> Hello,
> Is it true that "the" is _always _omitted in names of airports? The study of articles has taught me that there are exceptions in almost every case .
> 
> Thank you.


I just found this:

"Complimentary shuttle service to and from the LAX airport is available 24 hours a day."

I would agree with you, by the way, that it is very dangerous to use the word "always" when speaking of rules in language. 

Gaer


----------



## Hotmale

gaer said:


> I just found this:
> 
> "Complimentary shuttle service to and from the LAX airport is available 24 hours a day."
> 
> I would agree with you, by the way, that it is very dangerous to use the word "always" when speaking of rules in language.
> 
> Gaer



Thank you a lot Gear  . Here is an exception!


----------



## cuchuflete

Here is an exception to prove the rule:



> Woolwich selectmen were presented a petition regarding the increased air traffic at the *Wiscasset Airport* at their meeting Monday, November 10, and will ask for a seat at the table for any future growth and development plans for the airport.  Raoul Hennin, a resident of the Montsweag Road presented a petition with about 35 signatures from residents who are concerned about the increase in traffic at the *Wiscasset Airport*.


http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...+"Wiscasset+airport"&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7


However, the article is used to describe 'the airport', and not to name it.  It is somewhat like saying "the Wiscasset police station".  The airport itself uses the name Wiscasset Airport.
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIWI/WICKED_GOOD



> Wiscasset Airport is located in an area near wetlands and forest.  Do not be surprised to see *moose*, *coyotes*, *deer*, or *birds* (seagulls, and crows usually) on or near the runway. Do not bother trying to do a “low pass” to get a moose off the runway. You’ll just have to wait until he decides he’s done.


----------



## gaer

cuchuflete said:


> Here is an exception to prove the rule:
> 
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...+"Wiscasset+airport"&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7
> 
> 
> However, the article is used to describe 'the airport', and not to name it. It is somewhat like saying "the Wiscasset police station". The airport itself uses the name Wiscasset Airport.


I believe "the LAX Airport" is a clear exception, and that may be due to it's extremely unusual name:

link

The LAX Airport Hotel is just a quarter mile from Los Angeles Airport. Complimentary shuttle service to and from the LAX airport is available 24 hours a day.

There may be others, but all we need is one! 

Gaer


----------



## JamesM

LAX is most often called LAX, but is also called Los Angeles Airport. "The LAX Airport Hotel" is a hotel, not an airport. If you notice in your example sentence, the airport itself is not referred to with "the":

The LAX Airport Hotel is just a quarter mile from* Los Angeles Airport*.

I have to say that in nearly 30 years of living near L.A. and working for many years within a mile of LAX, I have never heard anyone in Los Angeles say "the LAX".


----------



## gaer

JamesM said:


> LAX is most often called LAX, but is also called Los Angeles Airport. "The LAX Airport Hotel" is a hotel, not an airport. If you notice in your example sentence, the airport itself is not referred to with "the":
> 
> The LAX Airport Hotel is just a quarter mile from* Los Angeles Airport*.


<blush>
You are right, James. I'll leave my post as it is for continuity, but clearly the "LAX Airport Hotel" is a very different thing.


> I have to say that in nearly 30 years of living near L.A. and working for many years within a mile of LAX, I have never heard anyone in Los Angeles say "the LAX".


The only exmaples I see is in phrases such as "to and from the LAX airport."

I would say: "to and from LAX airport". And I have never to CA. 

Gaer


----------



## JamesM

With LAX, people usually drop "airport" also.  "To and from LAX", like "to and from JFK" drops "airport", maybe because these are IATA airport codes rather than actual airport names.  I have no idea why "LAX" is referred to by its code.  I guess it's one of those mysteries of life.


----------



## gaer

JamesM said:


> With LAX, people usually drop "airport" also.  "To and from LAX", like "to and from JFK" drops "airport", maybe because these are IATA airport codes rather than actual airport names.


This is all clear, but the question was about possible exceptions, and that was what I was searching for, so:
_*Results 1 - 10 of about 247 for "to and from the LAX Airport".*_
Results 1 - 10 of about 338 for "to and from LAX Airport".

Results 1 - 8 of about 18 for "to and from the JFK Airport". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 605 for "to and from JFK Airport". 

Results 1 - 10 of about 12,400 for "to and from Heathrow Airport". 
Results 1 - 2 of 2 for "to and from the Heathrow Airport".

My theory: many people have no idea what "X" in "LAX" means. I had to Google the name to find out myself! 

Gaer


----------



## JamesM

gaer said:


> This is all clear, but the question was about possible exceptions, and that was what I was searching for, so:
> _*Results 1 - 10 of about 247 for "to and from the LAX Airport".*_
> Results 1 - 10 of about 338 for "to and from LAX Airport".
> 
> Results 1 - 8 of about 18 for "to and from the JFK Airport".
> Results 1 - 10 of about 605 for "to and from JFK Airport".
> 
> Results 1 - 10 of about 12,400 for "to and from Heathrow Airport".
> Results 1 - 2 of 2 for "to and from the Heathrow Airport".
> 
> My theory: many people have no idea what "X" in "LAX" means. I had to Google the name to find out myself!
> 
> Gaer


 
I see. 

Well, just to compare, "to and from LAX" gets 15,700 hits and "to and from JFK" gets 12,100. I'd say that the few hundred hits for the others might be partly due to errors or to context (i.e., "to and from the LAX airport parking lot.") I do see that some of them are about shuttles "to and from the LAX airport". Hmm.

"To and from the Miami airport" gets 116 hits, while "to and from Miami airport" gets only 107 hits. How would expect to hear people refer to Miami's airport?

"To and from Fort Lauderdale airport" gets 54, while "to and from the Fort Lauderdale airport" gets 11.


----------



## elroy

The point, though, is that "to and from LAX airport" is correct.  That's all Hotmale needs to know, right?


----------



## cuchuflete

I think the quoted passage is an exception.  I've flown into and out of LAX dozens of times, and have never used an article.  Nor do my Californian friends and relatives.


----------



## gaer

elroy said:


> The point, though, is that "to and from LAX airport" is correct. That's all Hotmale needs to know, right?


I don't know. I assume he'll let us know. 

I think we all agree, so far, that omitting the article always sounds correct, and the consensus seems to be that to most of us the article sounds totally unnecessary. 

Gaer


----------



## Hotmale

cuchuflete said:


> Here is an exception to prove the rule:
> 
> http://209.85.165.104/search?q=cach...+"Wiscasset+airport"&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=7
> 
> 
> However, the article is used to describe 'the airport', and not to name it.  It is somewhat like saying "the Wiscasset police station".  The airport itself uses the name Wiscasset Airport.
> http://www.airnav.com/airport/KIWI/WICKED_GOOD



Hi cuchuflete,

thanks for the links. I don't undertand the distinction, though - describing and naming an airport. Isn't naming and thus specyfing a given airport (e.g. Heathrow, not anothet airport) the same as describing it?


----------



## thecrzyness

No, I don't think so.

I'd say "I flying from Heathrow"
and then "The Heathrow airport [as opposed to another airport] has many great shops"

Maybe that's not a good example.


----------



## elroy

I think I'd be more likely to use the article if I were to say the name of the city (assuming the city has only one major airport) and not the official name of the airport:

1. I'll meet you at the Tel Aviv airport.
2. I'll meet you at Ben Gurion International Airport. 

It's quite common to use the name of the city because many people don't know the official names of most airports.


----------



## swyves

I think I can clear up the LAX conundrum:

Every airport has a name and a three letter IATA code:
London Heathrow: LHR
George Bush Intercontinental (Housaton): IAH
Los Angeles International Airport: LAX

The unusual thing is that in the case of most, we refer to them by the name, but in the case of LAX most people use the code. So, "LAX" means "Los Angeles International Airport". And thus in turn I would say "I have to get to LAX by 10:30", which translates to "I have to get to Los Angeles International Airport by 10:30". So, it's not really an exception to the rule; we use the "the" when we add the word "airport" to make it clear; "the airport of Los Angeles International Airport". Sure, much clearer....

The exception, then, is *John F. Kennedy International Airport. *There the "the" is not normally used; so, I'd infer that when I say "I have to get to JFK by 9" I'm using the IATA code, but when I say "the JFK airport", the same three letters are not the IATA code but rather the conventional abbreviation of the name of the man after whom the airport is named.


----------



## gaer

elroy said:


> I think I'd be more likely to use the article if I were to say the name of the city (assuming the city has only one major airport) and not the official name of the airport:
> 
> 1. I'll meet you at the Tel Aviv airport.
> 2. I'll meet you at Ben Gurion International Airport.
> 
> It's quite common to use the name of the city because many people don't know the official names of most airports.


My wife made the same point about our airport. She insisted that she would say "the Fort Lauderdale Airport" in some sentences but would use only "JFK", no article.

I was very busy earlier, so perhaps my thoughts were not clear.

It seems to me that we can always omit the article, but not doing so does not always sound "weird" or "foreign".

However, using the article with some airport names does sound extremely odd and very "non-native".

My conclusion, at this time, is that natives do use the article at times and find it very hard to describe exactly why, but non-natives would probably be best advised not to use them at all when referring to airport names simply because the "no article rule" either always or almost always works.

Do you agree?

Gaer


----------



## Hotmale

gaer said:


> My wife made the same point about our airport. She insisted that she would say "the Fort Lauderdale Airport" in some sentences but would use only "JFK", no article.
> 
> I was very busy earlier, so perhaps my thoughts were not clear.
> 
> It seems to me that we can always omit the article, but not doing so does not always sound "weird" or "foreign".
> 
> However, using the article with some airport names does sound extremely odd and very "non-native".
> 
> My conclusion, at this time, is that natives do use the article at times and find it very hard to describe exactly why, but non-natives would probably be best advised not to use them at all when referring to airport names simply because the "no article rule" either always or almost always works.
> 
> Do you agree?
> 
> Gaer



Hi Gear,
this is a very practical approach for a non-native speaker. It is good to know that in some cases "the" is possible and at the same time trust the rule about omitting the article.

Have a good day 
Hotmale


----------



## Hotmale

swyves said:


> I think I can clear up the LAX conundrum:
> 
> Every airport has a name and a three letter IATA code:
> London Heathrow: LHR
> George Bush Intercontinental (Housaton): IAH
> Los Angeles International Airport: LAX
> 
> The unusual thing is that in the case of most, we refer to them by the name, but in the case of LAX most people use the code. So, "LAX" means "Los Angeles International Airport". And thus in turn I would say "I have to get to LAX by 10:30", which translates to "I have to get to Los Angeles International Airport by 10:30". So, it's not really an exception to the rule; we use the "the" when we add the word "airport" to make it clear; "the airport of Los Angeles International Airport". Sure, much clearer....
> 
> The exception, then, is *John F. Kennedy International Airport. *There the "the" is not normally used; so, I'd infer that when I say "I have to get to JFK by 9" I'm using the IATA code, but when I say "the JFK airport", the same three letters are not the IATA code but rather the conventional abbreviation of the name of the man after whom the airport is named.



Hi swyves,

your post is most interesting. Thanks for this comment.


----------



## Hotmale

swyves said:


> Every airport has a name and a three letter IATA code:
> London Heathrow: LHR
> George Bush Intercontinental (Housaton): IAH
> Los Angeles International Airport: LAX
> 
> The unusual thing is that in the case of most, we refer to them by the name, but in the case of LAX most people use the code. So, "LAX" means "Los Angeles International Airport". And thus in turn I would say "I have to get to LAX by 10:30", which translates to "I have to get to Los Angeles International Airport by 10:30". So, it's not really an exception to the rule; we use the "the" when we add the word "airport" to make it clear; "the airport of Los Angeles International Airport". Sure, much clearer....



Hi swyves,
Am I right in thinking that when you refer to an aiport by the code, you use "the"? "I have to get to *the* LHR/*the* IAH?


----------



## cuchuflete

Hotmale said:


> Hi swyves,
> Am I right in thinking that when you refer to an aiport by the code, you use "the"? "I have to get to *the* LHR/*the* IAH?



Most often, when using the three letter code, the article "the" is omitted.

"I'll be flying into LAX tomorrow."

"I'll fly to the Los Angeles airport if I can get a booking.  If not, I'll use John Wayne in Santa Ana."

Note: John Wayne is the name of the airport in Orange Country.


----------



## swyves

Quite - so "I'm flying into LAX"; but "I'm flying into the LAX airport" would be possible.


----------



## Hotmale

cuchuflete said:


> "I'll fly to the Los Angeles airport if I can get a booking.  If not, I'll use John Wayne in Santa Ana."



Sorry for being a pain. Why did you write "... to the Los Angeles airport"?

As Elroy wrote we can use the article if were to say the name of the city, assuming the city has only one airport. Los Angeles has more than one airport, so in this case "the" shouldn't be (in my opinion) used. And if you had _the LAX_ in mind, shouldn't you write _*Los Angeles International Airport *_without the article?

Best regards,
Hotmale


----------



## swyves

I think in this case "the Los Angeles airport" means "the airport of Los Angeles" rather than being a contraction of "Los Angeles International Airport", as the person is choosing which airport to use. The confusion arises from that airport not really having a name of its own.


----------



## Hotmale

swyves said:


> I think in this case "the Los Angeles airport" means "the airport of Los Angeles" rather than being a contraction of "Los Angeles International Airport", as the person is choosing which airport to use. The confusion arises from that airport not really having a name of its own.



Hi Swyves,
Should I rather use "the Los Angeles airport" or "the airport of Los Angeles"?

I've got one more question , why does the name of the airport here take "the"? Is there any explanation, or is it just a mistake?


----------



## swyves

This whole thread covers a very subtle point. I don't consider you're Warsaw example incorrect, I think it's trying to refer to the Chopin connection specifically: "the airport named after Frederic Chopin".

To simplify, I can't think of any example where it would be wrong to omit the "the", and plenty where it would be wrong to include it.


----------



## cuchuflete

Let's start fresh here.


The Frederic Chopin International Airport in Warsaw is

This is not incorrect, but if you look at the start of a later paragraph,
" The Frederic Chopin is just 10km south west..."  you will note that it is not idiomatic English, either.
Perhaps the author choose to use the article to avoid other ambiguity and confusion with the name of the composer.


Leaving aside that particular unidiomatic example, what can we say about normal English?

1) Airport names generally do not take the definite article except
1a) When they are named for a city, and the phrase following "the" includes both the city name and the word 'airport'.

See the post citing text with "the Wiscasset airport" above, as well as the example including
"the Los Angeles airport".   Note that "the" is used to describe the city; the word 'airport' is not capitalized, as it is not used as part of an airport name.

Thus, "I am flying into the Poughkeepsie airport." and "I am flying into Stewart Airport in Poughkeepsie."  Likewise, "I'm flying out of LAX."  and "I'm leaving from the Los Angeles airport."

2) It may, in rare cases, be possible to find airport names preceded by "the", but these are exceptions, and should not be used as a usage model.


----------



## cuchuflete

> Should I rather use "the Los Angeles airport" or "the airport of Los Angeles"?



If you are speaking of the XXXXX airport in YYYYYYYY city, it is more idiomatic to say either--

The YYYYYYY airport....or The airport *in* YYYYYYYY.


----------



## Hotmale

cuchuflete said:


> Let's start fresh here.
> 
> 
> The Frederic Chopin International Airport in Warsaw is
> 
> This is not incorrect, but if you look at the start of a later paragraph,
> " The Frederic Chopin is just 10km south west..."  you will note that it is not idiomatic English, either.
> Perhaps the author choose to use the article to avoid other ambiguity and confusion with the name of the composer.
> 
> 
> Leaving aside that particular unidiomatic example, what can we say about normal English?
> 
> 1) Airport names generally do not take the definite article except
> 1a) When they are named for a city, and the phrase following "the" includes both the city name and the word 'airport'.
> 
> See the post citing text with "the Wiscasset airport" above, as well as the example including
> "the Los Angeles airport".   Note that "the" is used to describe the city; the word 'airport' is not capitalized, as it is not used as part of an airport name.
> 
> Thus, "I am flying into the Poughkeepsie airport." and "I am flying into Stewart Airport in Poughkeepsie."  Likewise, "I'm flying out of LAX."  and "I'm leaving from the Los Angeles airport."
> 
> 2) It may, in rare cases, be possible to find airport names preceded by "the", but these are exceptions, and should not be used as a usage model.



Ufff, so it turns out not to be as difficult as I thought  . Many thanks, Cuchuflete. It is most clear now.

With best wishes,
Hotmale


----------



## cuchuflete

Yes, Hotmale, it is not too difficult.  Just omit the article before the _airport name_. Use the article before _City Name airport_.

One final comment:  





			
				elroy said:
			
		

> The point, though, is that "to and from LAX airport" is correct.


This may be grammatically correct, but it is not idiomatic.  Native speakers do not say, "to and from LAX airport".  We say "to and from LAX".  The confusion comes from the IATA code as a substitute for the full airport name.  We do say, "to and from Stewart" and also "to and from Stewart Airport" but we say "to and from JFK" and not "to and from JFK Airport".


----------



## .   1

Many airports in Australia have multiple names and none seem to have 'the' as a leader.
Sydney airport is also called Mascot and Kingsford Smith.
Melbourne airport is Tullamarine.
Country towns that have airports just call them by the name of the town.
Gunnedah airport (or aerodrome for the oldies) Tamworth.
I can not think of a single airport in Australia with 'the' included.

I think that you have all been chasing rabbits down holes with the whole LAX kerfuffle.
It is simply a convention in English to tack 'the' onto the beginning of some acronyms.

.,,


----------



## swyves

I would not hesitate to omit the article before _City name airport_. I would use it if I wanted to make a specific point, probably if I were comparing one airport with another:

We will soon be landing at Quito airport.

In general, use of the article doesn't seem natural to me (BE). In most of the examples I come up with one wouldn't use the word airport:

I'll fly in from Quito
We will soon be landing in New York
I flew via Houston

But if writing about Warsaw, I might say

The Warsaw airport is located 25km from the city centre.
or
Warsaw airport is located...

I can't think of an example where I would use the article, though in some cases I would consider it correct and idiomatic.


----------



## elroy

cuchuflete said:


> This may be grammatically correct, but it is not idiomatic. Native speakers do not say, "to and from LAX airport". We say "to and from LAX". The confusion comes from the IATA code as a substitute for the full airport name. We do say, "to and from Stewart" and also "to and from Stewart Airport" but we say "to and from JFK" and not "to and from JFK Airport".


 I am actually not at all familiar with LAX, or how it's referred to.  Thanks for the info.

The point I was trying to make was that it is correct to leave out the article if you are using the actual name of the airport (or the IATA code, as in this case) as opposed to the name of the city.


----------



## cuchuflete

swyves said:


> I would not hesitate to omit the article before _City name airport_. I would use it if I wanted to make a specific point, probably if I were comparing one airport with another:
> 
> We will soon be landing at Quito airport.
> 
> In general, use of the article doesn't seem natural to me (BE). In most of the examples I come up with one wouldn't use the word airport:
> 
> I'll fly in from Quito
> We will soon be landing in New York
> I flew via Houston
> 
> But if writing about Warsaw, I might say
> 
> The Warsaw airport is located 25km from the city centre.
> or
> Warsaw airport is located...
> 
> I can't think of an example where I would use the article, though in some cases I would consider it correct and idiomatic.



I'm a little lost about what point you are making with the first three examples...



> I'll fly in from Quito
> We will soon be landing in New York
> I flew via Houston


I fully agree with omitting the article for all three, yet none of these really states nor implies "airport".  They are references to city locations, not airports.  

As to 





> The Warsaw airport is located 25km from the city centre.
> or
> Warsaw airport is located...


The last one is uncertain.  If the name of the Warsaw airport is
Warsaw *A*irport, then I would do as you have, and omit the article, but capitalize Airport as part of the name. 
If you mean "The Warsaw airport" in the second example, would you saw it this way, or 'Warsaw*'s* airport is located...'?


To make the question more clear, let's take London as an example. Let's assume London has only one airport, just to make it simple.

The Warsaw London airport is located 25km from the city centre.  
or
Warsaw London airport is located...  ???

In AE, we would agree with your first sample, and say
"London's airport is located..." or "The London airport is located..."

Is BE usage different?


----------



## winklepicker

cuchuflete said:


> To make the question more clear, let's take London as an example. Let's assume London has only one airport, just to make it simple.
> 
> The Warsaw London airport is located 25km from the city centre.
> or
> Warsaw London airport is located... ???
> 
> In AE, we would agree with your first sample, and say
> "London's airport is located..." or "The London airport is located..."
> 
> Is BE usage different?


 
I think so, yes. I can't think of any normal situation in which 'London airport' (which, by the way, Heathrow used to be called) would be preceded by 'the'. You might conceivably hear this, but it's quite a stretch:

_Manchester and Heathrow airports were both closed today due to fog, but the London airport is due to re-open shortly._


----------



## cuchuflete

. said:


> I think that you have all been chasing rabbits down holes with the whole LAX kerfuffle.
> 
> 
> It is simply a convention in English to tack 'the' onto the beginning of some acronyms.   The whole point we have been making is that we do not do this with airport acronyms.
> 
> .,,


----------



## swyves

I think it might be. In my first examples, I was pointing out that we often omit the word airport if we're talking about air travel as it's implied. 

I can agree with "London's airport" totally, and see your logic for using the article in "The London airport", but it still sounds unnatural to me. I suppose that, although the airport might not be called "London Airport" it will still be referred to that way so the article sounds unnatural to me. Quite possibly a BE/AE usage difference. I think your use of the article is more logical, but I just can't imagine myself saying or writing it.
It may also vary depending on how much one flies, and thus how one looks at airports: as a part of one's town, or a node in a transport network.


----------



## cuchuflete

winklepicker said:


> I think so, yes. I can't think of any normal situation in which 'London airport' (which, by the way, Heathrow used to be called) would be preceded by 'the'. You might conceivably hear this, but it's quite a stretch:
> 
> _Manchester and Heathrow airports were both closed today due to fog, but the London airport is due to re-open shortly._



You may have unwittingly flown into a cloudbank or opened a new can of worms here.

You write, "...but the London airport..."  which is a description, and not an airport name.

Would you omit the article if you were to name the airport in London?  "but [the?] London *A*irport..."


----------



## la reine victoria

cuchuflete said:


> I'm a little lost about what point you are making with the first three examples...
> 
> I fully agree with omitting the article for all three, yet none of these really states nor implies "airport". They are references to city locations, not airports.
> 
> As to The last one is uncertain. If the name of the Warsaw airport is
> Warsaw *A*irport, then I would do as you have, and omit the article, but capitalize Airport as part of the name.
> If you mean "The Warsaw airport" in the second example, would you saw it this way, or 'Warsaw*'s* airport is located...'?
> 
> 
> To make the question more clear, let's take London as an example. Let's assume London has only one airport, just to make it simple.
> 
> The Warsaw London airport is located 25km from the city centre.
> or
> Warsaw London airport is located... ???
> 
> In AE, we would agree with your first sample, and say
> "London's airport is located..." or "The London airport is located..."
> 
> Is BE usage different?


 
Yes Cuchuflete,

We always refer to our airports without using the article. Thus London Airport (or Heathrow) , Gatwick (without Airport), Stansted (without Airport), Southampton Airport, Aberdeen Airport, etc. etc.

LRV
_____________________________
* We are frequently amused*.


----------



## JamesM

> In AE, we would agree with your first sample, and say
> "London's airport is located..." or "The London airport is located..."


 
 There doesn't seem to be total agreement on anything at this point. 

I would not say, "The London airport is located..." I would say, "The airport(s) in London..." or "London's airport(s)..." I think that "the" in front of the airport name, whether it is the city's name or a specific airport name, seems odd.


----------



## .   1

Originally posted by Cuchuflete
The whole point we have been making is that we do not do this with airport acronyms. 

I must be reading a different thread.  I could have sworn that some people are proposing to refer to LAX airport as The LAX airport.

.,,


----------



## cuchuflete

swyves said:


> I think it might be. In my first examples, I was pointing out that we often omit the word airport if we're talking about air travel as it's implied.
> 
> I can agree with "London's airport" totally, and see your logic for using the article in "The London airport", but it still sounds unnatural to me. I suppose that, although the airport might not be called "London Airport" it will still be referred to that way so the article sounds unnatural to me. Quite possibly a BE/AE usage difference. I think your use of the article is more logical, but I just can't imagine myself saying or writing it.
> It may also vary depending on how much one flies, and thus how one looks at airports: as a part of one's town, or a node in a transport network.



Thanks for the clarifications, Swyves.  You make it clear that there is a BE/AE difference.


Suppose we take an example far from home, just to remove any idiomatic habit for either AE or BE speakers.

Airport: *Ministro Pistarini International Airport*  (*EZE*=IATA code)
Common colloquial name: (in English) Ezeiza Airport
Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina in Buenos Aires Province, about 35km from the city Buenos Aires.

Would a BE speaker say,  
1. Buenos Aires' airport is closed because of fog today.
2. Buenos Aires Airport is closed because of fog today.
2a. Buenos Aires airport is closed because of fog today.
3. The Buenos Aires airport is closed because of fog today.

??

An AE speaker would be comfortable with 1 and 3, and might use 2 if he didn't know the official or unofficial name of the airport.  2a seems wrong to me.


----------



## JamesM

. said:


> Originally posted by Cuchuflete
> The whole point we have been making is that we do not do this with airport acronyms.
> 
> I must be reading a different thread. I could have sworn that some people are proposing to refer to LAX airport as The LAX airport.
> 
> .,,


 
There were examples provided of websites that actually say, "...shuttle service is provided to and from the LAX airport..."   Those of us who live near, or travel through, LAX have all said that we would _not_ say or write, "the LAX airport."


----------



## swyves

LAX = Los Angeles International Airport

I'm going to LAX
It's in the LAX airport (but, not totally correct as "airport" is implicitly repeated)


----------



## cuchuflete

. said:


> Originally posted by Cuchuflete
> The whole point we have been making is that we do not do this with airport acronyms.
> 
> I must be reading a different thread.  I could have sworn that some people are proposing to refer to LAX airport as The LAX airport.
> 
> .,,


Some people did do that, and were corrected.

Such usage was first proposed...as an exception..in post #10, and corrected in post #14 and others following.


----------



## swyves

cuchuflete said:


> Thanks for the clarifications, Swyves. You make it clear that there is a BE/AE difference.
> 
> 
> Suppose we take an example far from home, just to remove any idiomatic habit for either AE or BE speakers.
> 
> Airport: *Ministro Pistarini International Airport* (*EZE*=IATA code)
> Common colloquial name: (in English) Ezeiza Airport
> Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina in Buenos Aires Province, about 35km from the city Buenos Aires.
> 
> Would a BE speaker say,
> 1. Buenos Aires' airport is closed because of fog today.
> 2. Buenos Aires Airport is closed because of fog today.
> 3. The Buenos Aires airport is closed because of fog today.
> 
> ??
> 
> An AE speaker would be comfortable with 1 and 3, and might use 2 if he didn't know the official or unofficial name of the airport.


 
OK; I think I'll take a different example as "Buenos Aires" ends in s, so there's no difference in speech between "Buenos Aires" and "Buenos Aires'".

Jorge Chavez International Airport, City of Lima, Peru, IATA code LIM:

I (as a BE speaker) would say:

Jorge Chavez is closed today (if I knew the person I was talking to knew the airport's real name)
Lima's airport is closed today
Lima Airport is closed today (not its official name, but I think a BE speaker assumes that an airport is regularly referred to like that)
The airport in Lima is closed today
LIM is closed today
(if talking about airports specifically) Lima is closed today (seems slightly odd without the context!)

but I wouldn't feel so natural saying:

The Lima airport is closed today


----------



## gaer

To handle the continued growth of passenger traffic since "Poland's entry into the European Union, Frederic Chopin International Airport, Warsaw is currently undergoing a major expansion with the addition of a new passenger terminal."

No "the" is there. So far I have not found one airport that is used with an article that is also not used without one.

I still believe, as a default, the wisest thing is to assume that no article is safest.

As I tried to mention, my wife definitely uses "the Fort Lauderale Airport". However, I've lived here my whole life. I only say "Fort Lauderdale Airport", "to and from Fort Lauderdale Airport", etc.

I would also used both "Fort Lauderdale" and "Miami" alone, since there is one [main] airpot in each city and only one.

I think that Fort Lauderdale is much more convenient to use than Miami.

I support the "no article" solution and apologize to everyone if I have made this unnecessarily complicated. I merely wanted to point out that there are exceptions. However, I don't think these exceptions are NECESSARY. 

Gaer

Gaer


----------



## la reine victoria

cuchuflete said:


> Thanks for the clarifications, Swyves. You make it clear that there is a BE/AE difference.
> 
> 
> Suppose we take an example far from home, just to remove any idiomatic habit for either AE or BE speakers.
> 
> Airport: *Ministro Pistarini International Airport* (*EZE*=IATA code)
> Common colloquial name: (in English) Ezeiza Airport
> Location: Buenos Aires, Argentina in Buenos Aires Province, about 35km from the city Buenos Aires.
> 
> Would a BE speaker say,
> 1. Buenos Aires' airport is closed because of fog today.
> 2. Buenos Aires Airport is closed because of fog today.
> 2a. Buenos Aires airport is closed because of fog today.
> 3. The Buenos Aires airport is closed because of fog today.
> 
> ??
> 
> An AE speaker would be comfortable with 1 and 3, and might use 2 if he didn't know the official or unofficial name of the airport. 2a seems wrong to me.


 
I belleve most BE speakers would say #2.

LRV

_____________________________
* We are frequently amused*.


----------



## JamesM

swyves said:


> LAX = Los Angeles International Airport
> 
> I'm going to LAX
> It's in the LAX airport (but, not totally correct as "airport" is implicitly repeated)


 
Yes.  "LAX airport" is redundant.  I would say, "It's inside Terminal 4 at LAX."   LAX is _only_ an airport.  There is no such thing as "LAX harbor" or "LAX freeway", for example.


----------



## cuchuflete

Excellent examples!  We are getting close here.  I'll mark my sense of AE usage with your sentences. 





swyves said:


> OK; I think I'll take a different example as "Buenos Aires" ends in s, so there's no difference in speech between "Buenos Aires" and "Buenos Aires'".
> 
> Jorge Chavez International Airport, City of Lima, Peru, IATA code LIM:
> 
> I (as a BE speaker) would say:
> 
> Jorge Chavez is closed today (if I knew the person I was talking to knew the airport's real name)
> Lima's airport is closed today
> Lima Airport is closed today (not its official name, but I think a BE speaker assumes that an airport is regularly referred to like that)
> The airport in Lima is closed today
> LIM is closed today
> (if talking about airports specifically) Lima is closed today (seems slightly odd without the context!)
> 
> but I wouldn't feel so natural saying:
> 
> The Lima airport is closed today


   An AE speaker would have no problem with the last one.  We would be fully at ease with all of your other examples.

Weather reporter on the radio:

We have a normal winter pattern today, with up to 14 inches of heavy, wet snow expected.
Roads will be hazardous after noon.  Schools,  many stores/shops, and the Wiscasset airport are all closed.  Even the moose have sought shelter from the snowstorm.


----------



## cuchuflete

Long suffering Gaer said:
			
		

> As I tried to mention, my wife definitely uses "the Fort Lauderale Airport".


  But does she capitalize "Airport" in speech?  

What I really mean, of course, is, "Does she say 'the Ft. Lauderdale airport/Airport' " 

to describe it, or to name it?


----------



## panjandrum

Sixty posts about definite articles and airports.  What a travel-obsessed people we are  

Not far from here there are two airports, Belfast International Airport and George Best City Airport.  Those are their formal titles.  In general conversation, they are referred to as *the International* and *the City*.  The International is just *Belfast International* when it gets its full title.  But The City is often *The George Best City Airport* - whenever anyone can be bothered with the full title.


----------



## cuchuflete

I would have expected a PongoMod to have a little more fun with those, and call them the International and the Best.  



off-topic post, awaiting mod deletion on runway 4E.


----------



## Hotmale

Many thanks for this discussion. It was very eye-opening and enoyable at the same time  .


----------



## gaer

panjandrum said:


> Sixty posts about definite articles and airports. What a travel-obsessed people we are


Actually, it's more a matter of investigating the truth of one simple sentence:



Hotmale said:


> The study of articles has taught me that there are _*exceptions*_ in almost every case .


While using the "no article with airport names" rule may work 99% of the time or more, quite obviously there ARE exceptions!  

Gaer


----------

