# Egyptian Arabic: كنت جايب



## Robbn

an a knt gyba 27 mn 30 zamaan

what is the meaning of this whole line?


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## elroy

I used to have a 27/30 a while ago.


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## cherine

Not "used to have", it's "I had".


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## elroy

Both are acceptable in English in this context; the meaning is the same.  "Used to have" is more common in everyday American English.


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## cherine

Doesn't "used to have" mean "I had several times"? or can it mean "I had once"?


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## elroy

It means "I had at one point (but no longer do)". 

Another example: "I used to have a cat."


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## cherine

كنت جايبة here means I once had. Only once. Would you still use "I used to have"? For "I used to have", we'd say كنت بجيب like I used to have As in my exams كنت بجيب درجات كويسة في الامتحانات.


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## elroy

It occurs to me that we need context (surprise surprise ).  

If this is in reference to earning a specific grade on a specific exam or assignment, we would say "I _got_ a 27/30 a while ago."  With "get," you can't say "used to get." 

كنت بجيب = I used to _get_ 

"Have" is different.  "I used to have a 27/30" would refer to an overall average, for example, not a specific grade on a single exam or assignment.  In that context, it's interchangeable with "I had a 27/30."  

The original could mean either, right?


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## cherine

No, and this is why I'm saying that we can't use "I used to". 
كنت جايب refers to an action done once, while كنت بجيب refers to a habit.


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## elroy

I understand that, but does it have to refer to one single assignment/test/quiz?  Couldn't several weeks' worth of assignments, for example, count as one accomplishment?  At least in Palestinian Arabic, جاب can be used in both situations:

جبت علامة عالية بالامتحان
جبت علامات منيحة أول شهرين من الفصل
جبت معدل منيح الفصل اللي مرق


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## Interprete

cherine said:


> No, and this is why I'm saying that we can't use "I used to".
> كنت جايب refers to an action done once, while كنت بجيب refers to a habit.


But why did she say كنت جايبة instead of simply جبت? What's the difference?


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## cherine

elroy said:


> I understand that, but does it have to refer to one single assignment/test/quiz?  Couldn't several weeks' worth of assignments, for example, count as one accomplishment?  At least in Palestinian Arabic, جاب can be used in both situations:
> 
> جبت علامة عالية بالامتحان
> جبت علامات منيحة أول شهرين من الفصل
> جبت معدل منيح الفصل اللي مرق


You're comparing two different structures here. We use جبت the same way you give in your examples (save for differences in other words) but كنت جايب is different. Another different structure is كنت بجيب . This one does mean I used to have.
كنت بجيب نِمَر حلوة في اللغات
كنت بجيب درجات كويسة في امتحان الشفوي
But كنت جايبة refers to a one time thing.


Interprete said:


> But why did she say كنت جايبة instead of simply جبت? What's the difference?


It's difficult to explain, but I think كنت جايب refers to something further in the past than a simple جِبت.


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## Interprete

I see, so it's like "I had got a 27/30" ?
كنت جايبة = كنت جيت ?


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## cherine

Interprete said:


> I see, so it's like "I had got a 27/30" ?


I think (got confused with all the times now  ) In French, it's like the difference between j'ai eu/reçu and j'avais eu/reçu.


> كنت جايبة = كنت جيت ?


I don't think they're 100% the same. The usage differs, but again I can't think out of context nor think of examples. But for the one we have, كنت جايبة نمرة حلوة من زمان sounds more natural than كنت جبت نمرة حلوة. I feel like كنت جبت should be part of something else, like a conditional: لو كنت ذاكرت كنت جبت نمرة حلوة.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> We use جبت the same way you give in your examples (save for differences in other words) but كنت جايب is different.


 I don't see why changing the verb form would change the meaning. 

In my Palestinian Arabic examples, you could use كنت جايب, which would change the time reference but not the meaning.


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## cherine

Ok. Would you translate those as a habitual thing?


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## elroy

No, I wouldn't.  But as I said, "I used to _have_"* is not about a regular/habitual thing.  This is a peculiarity of the verb "have."

To summarize (Arabic sentences in PA):

1.) جبت ١٠٠ بالامتحان: I got 100 on the exam.
2.) كنت جايب ١٠٠ بالامتحان: I had gotten/had 100 on the exam.
3.) كنت أجيب ١٠٠ بالامتحانات: I used to get 100s on my exams.

4.) جبت علامات منيحة أول شهرين: I got/had good grades the first two months.
5.) كنت جايب علامات منيحة أول شهرين: I had gotten/had/used to have good grades the first two months. _(This is how I originally understand the original sentence.)_
6.) كنت أجيب علامات منيحة كل الوقت: I used to get good grades all the time.

Note that "used to get" does not work in 2. (for the reasons you've given), but "used to have" works in 5. (because "have" works differently).

As I said earlier, you can say "I used to have a cat" and that doesn't mean I regularly or habitually had cats.  I meant at one point in time in the past I had one cat, and I no longer do (كان عندي بسة).

It seems like PA and EA work the same way; the issue here was English usage.

_*unless it has a different meaning, as in "I used to have coffee every morning." _


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## cherine

elroy said:


> 2.) كنت جايب ١٠٠ بالامتحان: I had gotten/had 100 on the exam.
> 5.) كنت جايب علامات منيحة أول شهرين: I had gotten/had/used to have good grades the first two months. _(This is how I originally understand the original sentence.)_


Ok, so maybe this is the reason of the confusion. The original sentence is not about a period of time, it's a one time thing أنا كنت جايبة كذا زمان I once had a good grade, a long time ago.
Would this solve the confusion?
For #5, I would use your translation, or the French imparfait "j'avais de bonnes notes".


> As I said earlier, you can say "I used to have a cat" and that doesn't mean I regularly or habitually had cats.  I meant at one point in time in the past I had one cat, and I no longer do (كان عندي بسة).
> 
> It seems like PA and EA work the same way; the issue here was English usage.


Yes, we say the same كان عندي قطة I used to have a cat.


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## analeeh

I don't think I would use 'used to' for a period as small as two months, at least not if it was explicitly stated. Then I would have to say 'I had good grades' or 'I had got good grades'. 'Used to' certainly gives a stretched out _imparfait_ feeling.

That said, if you say something like كنت جايب علامات منيحة وانا صغير (which is the point here) then 'used to' seems like a perfectly good translation.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> it's a one time thing أنا كنت جايبة كذا زمان I once had a good grade, a long time ago.


 Yes, that's how I understood it originally.  "I used to have" fits there. 


analeeh said:


> I don't think I would use 'used to' for a period as small as two months, at least not if it was explicitly stated. Then I would have to say 'I had good grades' or 'I had got good grades'. 'Used to' certainly gives a stretched out _imparfait_ feeling.


 This might be a British-American difference, but "used to" works for me in American English even for two months. 





analeeh said:


> That said, if you say something like كنت جايب علامات منيحة وانا صغير (which is the point here) then 'used to' seems like a perfectly good translation.


 The Arabic sentence doesn't work.  It needs to be كنت أجيب.


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## Robbn

Does it simply mean "I used to have a 27/30 (years ago - does the 27/30 used as the number of years?) a while ago." ?


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## elroy

What is the context, Robbn?  I think this whole discussion could have been avoided if you had given us the context, as required by forum rules.


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## Robbn

Sorry I didn't know how to exactly give the context, as I have given at my previous post but it was closed saying "not a forum rule.".

But, here I am giving it again. To get the whole scenario.

Here it is used, in this way.

B : لو كان خيرًا لبقى
A : اسم كان محذوف وتقديره "هو".
B : شاكرين مهللين .. انا مش عارفة من غيرك هعمل ايه
A : هتسقطي في العربي طبعا.
B : FSHRT YA [A] AN A KNT GYBA 27 MN 30 ZAMAAN
A : دي تلاقيها مرة واحدة وبالصدفة.
B : wala byhmny d kolha shklyat


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## elroy

I think in that context it could be either a single assignment/test or a cumulative average.


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## cherine

It's clearly a one time thing, and I still believe that "used to have" is wrong. Sorry for insisting, your English is certainly better than mine but I think we'll have to disagree on this one.


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## elroy

I thought in #16 you (implicitly) agreed that the structure allows both readings in Egyptian.  And I don't see anything in that context that clearly favors one reading over the other.  You're saying in that context it _can't_ refer to a cumulative average?  If so, why?  What makes you so sure?  When A says هتسقطي في العربي, couldn't they be referring to a whole course as opposed to a test, for example?


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## cherine

No, the dialog is about someone helping a girl parsing a sentence, and she thanks him and says "I don't know what I would've done if it were not for you" and he says "you would have failed Arabic of course". She says "fashart" (Don't remember how we decided on translating this in the thread where it was discussed), I got a 27 out of 30 long time ago. And he says: it must have been just a one time thing, and by coincidence.

So yes, I believe the context is about once. And even without context, I wouldn't understand أنا كنت جايبة درجة as a synonym of أنا كنت بجيب درجة.


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## analeeh

I think that part of the confusion here might come from cultural differences in marks.

In the American system, it seems, it is possible to say 'I had a fifty/I used to have a fifty, but then it rose/fell'. This is because of the American system of average grades and all this other stuff.

In the British system we don't have that, which is why I also found Elias's suggestion very strange initially. We don't have averages, only final end-of-year marks. If I say 'I have~got an A in Chemistry', that's because that's the mark that I got. Of course, it's possible to say 'I used to have a B but then I did the exam again and got an A' (كنت جايب بي بس بعدين رديت عملت وهلق صار عندي اي if you'll excuse any errors there), but this is a much rarer thing to say in British English and does not immediately leap out at me as an obvious reading without enough context.

I wonder if the Egyptian system is like the British one and this is why you're finding this as strange as I did?


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## elroy

cherine said:


> I wouldn't understand أنا كنت جايبة درجة as a synonym of أنا كنت بجيب درجة.


As I've explained, that's not what "I used to have" means in this context.


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## cherine

analeeh said:


> I wonder if the Egyptian system is like the British one and this is why you're finding this as strange as I did?


Yes, it's pretty much the same: one exam one grade/note. We have accumulative grades too, in university, but I'm not sure the nature of the grade is the reason why I don't feel comfortable with this.

Elias, I get your point, and that "used to have" is not the same as "used to get". It is just that "used to" in itself makes it feel different than "I had" or "I got" to me, the non-native. I'm not arguing your native intuition nor your knowledge, I certainly not half as knowledgeable in English as you are. I'm just stressing the fact that كنت جايبة is different from كنت بجيب and I'll leave the translation to native speakers.
Again, let's leave it at this.


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