# Urdu and Persian: khawaatiin خواتین



## Abu Talha

Hello,

The words _khaatuun_ خاتون and its plural _khawaatiin_ خواتین are discussed in this post: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1191775&p=6123534#post6123534

I have a couple of questions regarding the plural:

1. Is _khawaatiin_ an Arabic broken plural on the pattern of _fa3aaliil_ فَعَالِيل , or is it a native Persian plural or a Turkish plural? An Arabic plural is plausible since a couple of Arabic classical dictionaries mention the word _khaatuun_. Hava's Arabic-English dictionary gives the singular and plural, while القاموس المحيط gives the singular only. Both mention it is a borrowed word, and Hava specifies that it is a Turkish word used in Syria.

2. Is خاتون truly of Turkish origin, or of Persian origin borrowed into Turkish, and via Turkish into Arabic?

3. If خواتین is _not_ an Arabic plural, is its correct pronunciation _kh*aw*aatiin_? I remember someone telling me a while back that he heard that this waaw (و) should be treated like the waaw in خواب , خواہش and that the correct pronunciation is _khaatiin_.

I would appreciate your views. Thanks!


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## Qureshpor

daee said:


> Hello,
> 
> The words _khaatuun_ خاتون and its plural _khawaatiin_ خواتین are discussed in this post: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1191775&p=6123534#post6123534
> 
> I have a couple of questions regarding the plural:
> 
> 1. Is _khawaatiin_ an Arabic broken plural on the pattern of _fa3aaliil_ فَعَالِيل , or is it a native Persian plural or a Turkish plural? An Arabic plural is plausible since a couple of Arabic classical dictionaries mention the word _khaatuun_. Hava's Arabic-English dictionary gives the singular and plural, while القاموس المحيط gives the singular only. Both mention it is a borrowed word, and Hava specifies that it is a Turkish word used in Syria.
> 
> 2. Is خاتون truly of Turkish origin, or of Persian origin borrowed into Turkish, and via Turkish into Arabic?
> 
> 3. If خواتین is _not_ an Arabic plural, is its correct pronunciation _kh*aw*aatiin_? I remember someone telling me a while back that he heard that this waaw (و) should be treated like the waaw in خواب , خواہش and that the correct pronunciation is _khaatiin_.
> 
> I would appreciate your views. Thanks!




daee SaaHib, I shall not penalise you for asking three questions when you clearly stated you wanted to ask a couple!

Wehr has this word listed alphabetically, instead of in the normal "root" order. The plural given is xavaatiin and it is indicated that it is a "diptote". So, I believe the plural to be Arabic.

The meaning given for "xaatuun" is "lady, socially prominent woman". Another entry is "zahrat al-xaatuun" (little blue flower of the steppe (syr)). Now, this indicates Syrian usage. My guess is that the word is Turkish and then borrowed into Arabic, Persian and Urdu (as well as other languages). I shall check its occurrence in Classical Persian literature when I return home from work. Regarding your third question, I think it is vicious rumour!


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## darush

Hello daee,
the plural of *khatun* in Persian is khatunha, not khavaatin and *it* should be a Turkic name(notice that Iran was ruled by Turkic dynasties for at least 600 years).
as far as I know in the court of Ottoman empire( and then Persia)they were used to make plural for nouns on the Arabic patterns, even for non-Arabic nouns.
Good luck


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## Abu Talha

So it looks like it is an Arabic plural. Thank you very much.


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## Faylasoof

Just to add that apart from Hava, Steingass' lexicon also mentions that خاتون, with the plural خواتین, is "Tart." = Tartar (= Turkic) word. The plural as has already been demonstrated, and as you yourself guessed, follows the typical Arabic broken plural form فَعَالِيل _fa3aaliil_. The fact it is a diptote means it is only partially declinable, but that is a different discussion.


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## Qureshpor

darush said:


> Hello daee,
> the plural of *khatun* in Persian is khatunha, not khavaatin and *it* should be a Turkic name(notice that Iran was ruled by Turkic dynasties for at least 600 years).
> as far as I know in the court of Ottoman empire( and then Persia)they were used to make plural for nouns on the Arabic patterns, even for non-Arabic nouns.
> Good luck




One of muHtasham's qit3aat has the title, "dar marsiyah yake az xavaatiin farmaayad" This is the only example I have found so far. On the other hand, xaatuun is quite common in Classical poetry but I did not find xaatuun-haa in my search. I did however find an article on the net entitled "xaatuun-haa va begum-haa-ye-sarzamiin-i-man.

http://monjoogh.blogspot.com/2011/03/blog-post_25.html


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> _*One of muHtasham's qit3aat has the title, "dar marsiyah yake az xavaatiin farmaayad"*_ This is the only example I have found so far. On the other hand, xaatuun is quite common in Classical poetry but I did not find xaatuun-haa in my search. I did however find an article on the net entitled "xaatuun-haa va begum-haa-ye-sarzamiin-i-man.
> 
> http://monjoogh.blogspot.com/2011/03/blog-post_25.html


_* This is indeed very interesting QP SaaHib!*_  Actually, خاتونہا _xaatuunhaa_ is used very commonly now as a quick Google search with خاتونہا  reveals. 
Given that the title invites contributions about Urdu too, then it is proper to mention that in Urdu the Arabic plural, _xawaatiin_ خواتین, is the most common plural form used.


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## Abu Talha

Thanks very much for your research and expert opinions!


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> Given that the title invites contributions about Urdu too, then it is proper to mention that in Urdu the Arabic plural, _xawaatiin_ خواتین, is the most common plural form used.




I have to confess that I did not really pay much attention to the title of the thread. I was concentrating more on the word "xaatuun" and its connection with Arabic, Persian and Turkish. For once I seem to have ignored Urdu. I apologise!

Readers from the Subcontinent will know that "*xaatuun*" is a very common in ladies' names. Zubaida Khatoon, Hajra Khatoon, Khadija Khatoon etc etc. It also forms part of compounds such as "xaanah-i-xaatuun" (Lady of the House), "xaatuun-i-avval" (First Lady), "xaatuun-i-jannat" (Lady of Heavan/Paradise). One even comes across "xaatuun shaa3irah"!, where one would think that "shaa3irah" already means "a lady/female poet".

Talking about poets, Urdu poetry has not lagged behind in the use of the word "xaatuun". Raz Chandpuri wrote two nazms on the topic of women, "mashriqii xaatuun se" (To the Eastern woman" and "Hindi 3aurat se" (To the Indian woman). Here is a short piece from Aziz Lakhnavii's "ruxatii kaa manzar".

ek *xaatuun* ne dekhaa jo yih hangaamah-i-Gham
aage baRh kar yih kahaa poNchh ke chasm-i-purnam
biibiyo! ghar hai yih shaadii kaa kih bazm-i-maatam
shukr kii jaa hai kih daamaad milaa nek-qadam

ab yahii raaj tumhaaraa hai yahii sar kaa taaj
sajdah-i-shukr karo tum kih subuk-dosh ho aaj

But the title of the thread is "xavaatiin"! So, "xavaatiin-i-Hazaraat" (Ladies and Gebtlemen", with your leave I must finish here.


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## Qureshpor

A few typos removed.



QURESHPOR said:


> Talking about poets, Urdu poetry has not lagged behind in the use of the word "xaatuun". Raz Chandpuri wrote two nazms on the topic of women, "mashriqii xaatuun se" (To the Eastern woman" and "Hindi 3aurat se" (To the Indian woman). Here is a short piece from Aziz Lakhnavii's "rux*s*atii kaa manzar".
> 
> ek *xaatuun* ne dekhaa jo yih hangaamah-i-Gham
> aage baRh kar yih kahaa poNchh ke chasm-i-purnam
> biibiyo! ghar hai yih shaadii kaa kih bazm-i-maatam
> shukr kii jaa hai kih daamaad milaa nek-qadam
> 
> ab yahii raaj tumhaaraa hai yahii sar kaa taaj
> sajdah-i-shukr karo tum kih subuk-dosh ho aaj
> 
> But the title of the thread is "xavaatiin"! So, "xavaatiin-*o*-Hazaraat" (Ladies and Ge*n*tlemen", with your leave I must finish here.


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Readers from the Subcontinent will know that "*xaatuun*" is a very common in ladies' names. Zubaida Khatoon, Hajra Khatoon, Khadija Khatoon etc etc. It also forms part of compounds such as *"xaanah-i-xaatuun"* (Lady of the House), "xaatuun-i-avval" (First Lady), "xaatuun-i-jannat" (Lady of Heavan/Paradise). One even comes across "xaatuun shaa3irah"!, where one would think that "shaa3irah" already means "a lady/female poet".


I have always thought it was *xaatuun-e xaanah*!


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I have always thought it was *xaatuun-e xaanah*!



Is that so? Well so did I!


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Is that so? Well so did I!


So it's another ''typo''...


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> So it's another ''typo''...



Hardly a typo. Perhaps a psychologist amongst us could explain what thought process (or lack of) prompted me to reverse the word order. It is not "Spoonerism" nor "dyslexia". You tell me!


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## marrish

I'd rather say it was rush hours...


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