# I believe something



## 地獄の森_jigoku_no_mori

I can't seem to get a sentence together like this. I want to say, "I believe that you are a ninja" but I have no idea as to how to use the verb believe"信じる" in that kind of sentence. Any help would be appreciated.


----------



## karuna

Just a wild guess: ninja ga iru to shinjimasu


----------



## karuna

On the other hand isn't _shinjiru _too strong as it would mean "I have faith in you being a ninja". Wouldn't it be better to say "..._to omoimasu". _

Please forgive me for my speculations. I just see this as an opportunity to learn again some small but important details.

Karuna


----------



## gaer

karuna said:


> On the other hand isn't _shinjiru _too strong as it would mean "I have faith in you being a ninja". Wouldn't it be better to say "..._to omoimasu". _
> 
> Please forgive me for my speculations. I just see this as an opportunity to learn again some small but important details.
> 
> Karuna


I can only speculate about the meaning in English. In such statements, "I believe" often equals "I think".

I believe you are a Russian.
I think you are a Russian.

These would probably mean the same thing.

I am totally frustrated because it takes such a long time to get an answer to such a question, and we "non-natives" are left on our own, confused. 

Gaer


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> Sorry, we must contribute more to the forum.
> 
> I believe you are a Russian.
> I think you are a Russian.
> 
> 私は　あなたが　ロシア人だと思います。　This is corect gramatically. But,
> it sounds a little odd and not natural. あなたは　ロシア人でしょう。is
> more natural.
> 
> 私は　あなたが　ロシア人だと思います。　may means in some circumstances
> that you are one of  typical Russians. I think and behave like a true
> Russian.
> 
> Hiro Sasaki
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaer


----------



## Flaminius

karuna said:


> Just a wild guess: ninja ga iru to shinjimasu



It would mean, "I believe in the existence of ninja."   

A literal translation would be;
anata-wa ninja dato omoimasu.

From what I understand about "I believe that [. . .]" construction of English, the sentence oftentimes demands a yes/no answer.  In the Japanese sentece above, however, the implication that the audience should reply is rather weak.  If that is also to be factored in, here is my proposal:

anata-wa ninja janai?


----------



## gaer

Flaminius said:


> It would mean, "I believe in the existence of ninja."
> 
> A literal translation would be;
> anata-wa ninja dato omoimasu.
> 
> From what I understand about "I believe that [. . .]" construction of English, the sentence oftentimes demands a yes/no answer. In the Japanese sentece above, however, the implication that the audience should reply is rather weak. If that is also to be factored in, here is my proposal:
> 
> anata-wa ninja janai?


How about sasaki-sans suggestion, but using ninja:

あなたは忍者だとでしょう。
Anata wa ninja da to deshô.

I like his examples with "Russian", because it makes the sentence very clear.

And in English, these are just about the same:

I believe/think you are a ninja.
You must be a ninja.

They appear to be very different, but really they are not. 

Gaer


----------



## gaer

I asked a question more than 24 hours ago. I would still like someone to answer it, if possible. It is very discouraging to ask a question and see no responses. 

Again, my question:

How about sasaki-sans suggestion, but using ninja:

あなたは忍者だとでしょう。
Anata wa ninja da to deshô.

My question was simply about "でしょう。”

Gaer


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> :
> 
> あなたは忍者だとでしょう。⇒　 あなたは　忍者でしょう。
> 
> 
> 私は　あなたを忍者だと信じます。may imply  : " I don't doubt that you are
> a ninja. " or " I believe that you are a perfect ninja and you can act
> as a Ninja. "
> 
> 
> Gaer


 
Hiro Sasaki


----------



## gaer

Hiro Sasaki said:


> Hiro Sasaki


My guess would have been, as I said:

You must be a ninja (meaning exactly what you said). Thank you for answering my question! 

Gaer


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> My guess would have been, as I said:
> 
> You must be a ninja (meaning exactly what you said). Thank you for answering my question!
> 
> Gaer


 Yes, ! 

Hiro Sasaki


----------



## etudian

It depends on the context, how you say it, and how you transcribe what people say, but if you pronounce でしょう clearly, the meaningn of 

あなたは忍者でしょう。

is not clear to me. This Japanese sentence above doesn't sound very natural to my ear unless it is part of a longer sentence.

If you drop the う, you get closer, I think.

あなたは忍者でしょ。 (Very colloquial)
I believe you're a ninja.
Remember, you're a ninja.

I believe でしょ is an informal form of でしょう, but the two forms don't mean the same to my ear.

The closest thing to "I believe you're a ninja" I can think of is

あなたは忍者ですよね。
I believe you're a ninja.
I'm almost sure that you're a ninja.
You're a ninja, aren't you? (with a falling intonation)

You can add よね to sentences ending with です, ます, た, etc, to ask for the listener's confirmation. It's extremely common and useful. For example, when you have an appointment with Mr. A, whom you haven't met, and he shows up on time, you would say

Ａさんですよね。
I believe you're Mr. A.
You're Mr. A, aren't you?

If you say Ａさんでしょ, you're not being polite.

Since よね demands the listener's confirmation, if you use it too often, you may sound demanding or complaining, depending on how you say it.

About Flaminius's suggestion:

あなたは忍者じゃない？ (Very colloquial)
You're a ninja, aren't you? (with a rising intonation)
I guess you're a ninja, but I'm not sure. Tell me. (The speaker expects "yes" as the answer, but is ready to accept "no" too.)


----------



## gaer

etudian said:


> It depends on the context and how you say it, but to me,
> 
> あなたは忍者でしょう。
> 
> means either
> 
> Maybe you're a ninja. (In this case, the Japanese sentence doesn't sound very natural to me unless it is part of a longer sentence. I would never say it as a complete sentence to someone I think is a ninja.)
> 
> or
> 
> Remember, you're a ninja.
> 
> If you drop the う, you get closer, I think.
> 
> あなたは忍者でしょ。 (Very colloquial)
> I believe you're a ninja.
> Remember, you're a ninja.


That would certainly be different than what I was thinking.


> The closest thing I can think of is
> 
> あなたは忍者ですよね。
> I believe you're a ninja.
> I'm almost sure that you're a ninja.


That is much closer to what I had in mind.


> You can add よね to sentences ending with です, ます, た, etc, to ask for the listener's confirmation. It's extremely common and useful. I believe it functions like "I believe" and "I think."


Actually, I'm very familiar with this!


> About Flaminius's suggestion:
> 
> あなたは忍者じゃない？ (Very colloquial)
> I guess you're a ninja, but I'm not sure. Tell me. (The speaker expects "yes" as the answer, but is ready to accept "no" too.)


Perhaps like this?

"You're a ninja, aren't you?"

In this case you also expect "yes", but you would not be surprised to hear "no". 

Gaer


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

gaer said:


> "You're a ninja, aren't you?" あなたは　忍者でしょう。(　どうして　大阪城（　おおさかじょう）　に　忍び込めないのですか　?）　Being acommpanied with another
> sentences.  The context is interesting and the meanig will change.
> 
> "You're a real ninja, aren't you. ? Why do you refuse to sneak into
> the Osaka Castle ?
> 
> 
> Gaer


 
Hiro Sasaki


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

あなたは　忍者ではない。can be interpreted in two ways. 

(1) I'm sure that you are not a Ninja.

(2) You doesn't deserve the name of Ninja.

あなたは　それでも　武士（ぶし）　か。　In this case, the meaning is more clear.
"You doesn't deserve to be called samurai."

Hiro Sasaki


----------



## etudian

Just to let you know that I have edited my previous post.


----------



## Hiro Sasaki

Ninja do not exist from more than 150 years ago.

Therefore, any good colloquial current Japanese sounds strange.

" Ninja" must be replaced by "student" ( 学生　－がくせい　）　for example,
if you want to learn colloquial current Japanese.


あなたは　忍者でしょう。(　どうして　大阪城（　おおさかじょう）　に　忍び込めないのですか　?）　 This sentence is impossible in a current  conversation. But, it is 
good lingustically as a remark of a mowan delivered to a ninja even now
if ninjas existed today.

Hiro Sasaki


----------

