# 漢



## Skatinginbc

Wikipedia: The hanja for the Han River is not 韓 ("Korea") but 漢 (Chinese). The reason behind this is because the meaning of the native Korean "han" (한), in this instance meaning "great" "large" "wide", was transliterated into Hanja with the character 漢 also meant "large", thus showing the reason why the river used the word 漢 instead of 韓.

Can the character 漢 really mean "large" in Chinese?  If so, please show me an example.  I have a hard time finding evidence to support that claim.

Thank you.


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## NewAmerica

Traditional Chinese people used to say "倬彼云汉，昭回于天" （《诗经·大雅·荡之什·云汉》——云汉 、银汉、天汉，皆指银河）- the starlit Milky Way races over the skies, which was seen as the greatest or largest river in the Universe in the ancient mind. Thus it probably implies that 汉 has the quality of being great,large and wide .

《康熙字典》汉：又天河也。It helps confirm the above point of view.

 The comparison makes sense to me. For you cannot compare a creek to the Great River (长江）. Anyone says that a river in their country is like the Great River in China, people would instinctively think that must be a large river.

  Direct definition of 汉 as large is difficult to find, for the time being.


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## Skatinginbc

Can you cite a Chinese fixed expression in which 「漢」、「天漢」、「銀漢」、「雲漢」、「天河」、「銀河」、「星河」 either means literally or implies figuratively "great, big, vast, wide" (like 瀚 in 浩瀚, 瀚海)?


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## NewAmerica

*It's already there:

倬*: 著也，大也。《詩·大雅》倬彼雲漢。（《康熙字典》）

(I've edited my previous post)


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## Skatinginbc

Like 天 "sky", 漢 "galaxy" also denotes an object that happens to be great and vast (e.g., 浮雲漢之湯湯; 倬彼雲漢), but there is a difference: While the former can be easily used to mean "great" as in 「天價」、「天量」(數目極大的), the latter seems to lack this capability (*漢價、*漢量). The Chinese character 漢 is not in the same league as English "_galactic_", which can mean "huge" as in "a _galactic _sum" (*漢量 or 天量).


NewAmerica said:


> It's already there: 倬: 著也，大也。《詩·大雅》倬彼雲漢。


Thank you, NewAmerica, but I'm looking for an example where "galaxy" alone (漢、天漢、銀漢、雲漢、天河、銀河、星河) means or symbolizes "great" or "vast" without the help of another word that means "great, vast" (e.g., 倬 in 倬彼雲漢, or 湯湯 in 浮雲漢之湯湯).

海量 = 大量 ==> 海 alone may symbolize "huge".


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## NewAmerica

Skatinginbc said:


> 「天價」、「天量」



Go back to the definition given by《康熙字典》: 汉：天河也。

From this definition, being great is an inherent character for 汉.


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## Skatinginbc

Well, 銀河 = 天河 as well, but I am more willing to accept 他開口要了個天河之價 than 他開口要了個銀河之價, and 慈悲為懷, 有天河之量 than 慈悲為懷, 有銀河之量. The existence of 天 makes a difference.


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## NewAmerica

天之河（天河），天之价（天价）appear to be consistent to me.


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> 天之河（天河），天之价（天价）appear to be consistent to me.


If you are not even willing to accept 天河之價, then what's your point in #6?

我漢言不慚 (大言不慚), 還望您漢人漢量 (大人大量).


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## NewAmerica

Making new phrases should be particularly cautious.  The meaning of a Chinese character is not the only factor to be considered in the making. New combination of different characters could lead to unexpected results. Only time will tell.

So the safest way in speaking or writing is to use those time-honored phrases. The great writer of China, Lu Xun, warns of the danger of making new phrases (It reminds me of a joke learned at primary school: 公-男，母-女， so some pupils had 男鸡，女鸡 in their reasoning).


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> Making new phrases


Are you able to create an acceptable new phrase in which 漢 alone means "great/vast"?  The lack of old phrases plus the impossibility of creating a new phrase shall prove that 漢 does not mean "great/vast".


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## NewAmerica

The usage is archaic. Can you use archaic Chinese to write your threads and posts? Show me one if you are confident. Then I will consider making a new phrase for you.

I've already given the example that 汉 alone means "great/vast":

Since "倬彼云汉" and "汉：天河也。"

  Thus we have:  "倬彼汉“  which is equivalent to:

     倬, 汉！ ===>>> Vast, 汉！

It's synecdoche!


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## Skatinginbc

NewAmerica said:


> I've already given the example that 汉 alone means "great/vast": Since "倬彼云汉" and "汉：天河也。"  Thus we have:  "倬彼汉“  which is equivalent to:  倬, 汉！ ===>>> Vast, 汉！


什麼邏輯?
倬彼我系 (好大啊, 我那個宗系) ==> "系" 中文意思是 "大"?
倬彼甫田 (好大啊, 那片甫田) ==> "田" 中文意思是 "大"?
好大啊, 那話兒 ==> "話兒" 中文意思是 "大"?
好大啊, 那雲漢 ==> "漢" 中文意思是 "大"?


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## NewAmerica

Do you know what is synecdoche?

The vastness is one of the qualities of the Milky Way.


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## Skatinginbc

Thank you for the input.  It all started from the thread "Han River" (漢江), a thread I created in the Korean Forum regarding the use of the Chinese character 漢 as a transliteration for Korean 한 meaning "great".


NewAmerica said:


> The vastness is one of the qualities of the Milky Way.


But I can't find any word (詞) or idiom (成語) that contains 漢 meaning "great, vast".


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