# I am older than you



## Scotty Love

What is the German word for "than"?
What would it look like in this sentance?
(I am older *than *you)


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## Jana337

Scotty Love said:
			
		

> What is the German word for "than"?
> What would it look like in this sentence?
> (I am older *than *you)


It is "als". Try to translate it, please.  

Jana


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## Ainat

I am older _*than*_ you

Ich bin älter _*als*_ du
Ich bin älter *als *Sie

Yeah, well, but if you are older than the other one, the "normal" thing is _*du*_ instead of _*Sie

*_Oh, God,  I'm sorry.  älter, älter, nicht alter.

Viele grüße


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## Scotty Love

(Ich bin alter als Sie) 
I think thats right


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## Jana337

Not quite, ladies. 

Short adjectives (monosyllabic ones and a couple of exceptions) take an Umlaut in the comparative and the superlative (unless the stem vowel is "i" or "e").

Ich bin älter als du. - informal
Ich bin älter als Sie. - formal

Scotty Love, thats --> that's 

Jana


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## Scotty Love

Are there any other forms of "than"?


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## Jana337

Scotty Love said:
			
		

> Are there any other forms of "than"?


Strictly speaking, no. But some idiomatic phrases that have "than" in English sound better without it in German.

not later than - spätestens (= at the latest)

Jana


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## jester.

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Ich bin älter als du. - informal
> Ich bin älter als *S*ie. - formal



You have to capitalize Sie unless you want it to mean "I'm older than her" but I guss you already knew that


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## Henryk

In rare cases it's "denn".

As singer he's more known than as composer.
Als Sänger ist er bekannter denn als Komponist.

But it's just used if two "als" follow one behind the other.


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## Scotty Love

j3st3r said:
			
		

> You have to capitalize Sie unless you want it to mean "I'm older than her" but I guss you already knew that


I do now


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## Paskovich

"Als" is the only possible translation [edit]of "than"[/edit] when you compare something.
Still some Germans(even some of my so called teachers ...) use "wie", which is COMPLETELY WRONG and sounds absolutely awful. So never ever use this!

Example: Ich bin schlauer wie du. 
Translation: "I cannot speak any German although I am  German."

Just in case you hear that somewhere and wonder what this is supposed to mean.


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## jester.

Scotty Love said:
			
		

> I do now



Actually that remark was for Jana, but it's good that it was also useful for you.


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## Jana337

Paskovich said:
			
		

> "Als" is the only possible translation.
> Still some Germans(even some of my so called teachers ...) use "wie", which is COMPLETELY WRONG and sounds absolutely awful. So never ever use this!


Everywhere in Germany or in some regions only? One can hear the same in Czech regions adjacent to Poland. It is wrong and awful in Czech, too. I wonder where it comes from. 

Jana


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## Kajjo

Hallo Paskovich,
Du hast völlig recht und mich stört dieser schreckliche Deutsch-Fehler auch sehr. Der Vollständigkeit halber sollte man aber erwähnen, daß "wie" bei Gleichheit und "als" bei Ungleichheit verwendet wird:

"Ich bin doppelt so alt wie Du."
"Ich bin genauso schlau wie Du."
"Ich bin nicht einmal halb so alt wie Erna."

"Ich bin älter als Du."
"Petra ist jünger als ich."

Kajjo


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## Paskovich

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Everywhere in Germany or in some regions only? One can hear the same in Czech regions adjacent to Poland. It is wrong and awful in Czech, too. I wonder where it comes from.
> 
> Jana


I don´t know. At least I hear that here in Brandenburg (East Germany, around Berlin) far too often. 

Wo wohnst du Kajjo?

EDIT:

For me "far too often" actually means once a week at least (physics lesson with such a teacher). I think if I had another teacher I would hear that quite seldom either.


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## Kajjo

In Norddeutschland hört man es sehr selten.

Kajjo


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## DerKleineFreak

Hier in Baden-Württemberg sagt der Opa bis zum Enkel "wie". 

Schrecklich!

*grrr*

Süddeutscher Dialekt...


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## Libertad

hehe, this dialects!! When my grandmum speaks *hessisch* fastly, i cannot understand anything


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## Scotty Love

Paskovich said:
			
		

> "Als" is the only possible translation [edit]of "than"[/edit] when you compare something.
> Still some Germans(even some of my so called teachers ...) use "wie", which is COMPLETELY WRONG and sounds absolutely awful. So never ever use this!
> 
> Example: Ich bin schlauer wie du.
> Translation: "I cannot speak any German although I am German."
> 
> Just in case you hear that somewhere and wonder what this is supposed to mean.


Thanks, though if it wasn't for that translation I would never had figured that out.


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## Scotty Love

Ainat said:
			
		

> I am older _*than*_ you
> 
> Ich bin älter _*als*_ du
> Ich bin älter *als *Sie
> 
> Yeah, well, but if you are older than the other one, the "normal" thing is _*du*_ instead of _*Sie*_
> 
> Oh, God,  I'm sorry. älter, älter, nicht alter.
> 
> Viele grüße


Oh, it's not "alter" it's "älter"?


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## Jana337

Scotty Love said:
			
		

> Oh, it's not "alter" it's "älter"?


I explained why:
Short adjectives (monosyllabic ones and a couple of exceptions) take an Umlaut in the comparative and the superlative (unless the stem vowel is "i" or "e").

Jana


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## Whodunit

Paskovich said:
			
		

> I don´t know. At least I hear that here in Brandenburg (East Germany, around Berlin) far too often.


 
I don't hear it in South Brandenburg so often. 

I've thought it was rather a feature of Austrian (or maybe Bavarian) German.


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## morx

Here in Hessen "wie" is often used in this context, too. And I hate it! Awful! It is said almost everywhere in Germany and some of my teachers use it too.


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## jebyler

Ich find's nicht so schrecklich, daß mann manchmal anders/falsch spricht.  So mit der Satz "Ich bin älter wie du."  Es kann auch interessant sein, die ünterschiedliche regionalen Spracharten der Deutschen zu lernen.  Und es gibt so viele.  Meine Oberchefin hier bei der Arbeit kommt aus Ostfriesien, und findet meinem bayerischen Akzent und die kommische Redewendungen die ich ab und zu verwende ziemlich lüstig.  Sie meint sogar, daß ich auch auf Ensglisch, meine Muttersprache übrigens, einen bayerischen akzent habe.  Ich weiß noch nicht ob ich beleidigt werden sollte...   Aber der Punkt ist, daß mann nicht unbedingt von Kleinigkeiten genervt sein muß, sondern die vielfalt der Ausdrücksmöglichkeiten auch genießen kann.  Deshalb spreche und lese ich noch Deutsch, obwohl ich längst nicht mehr da war.

Sag mal "wie," sag mal "als."  Es ist nicht schlimm.  Es kommt dann darauf an, ob man wie ein Niederbayer klingen will, aber manchmal will man das auch.  Es ist gut dich manchmal anpassen zu können.  Es ist gut auch unterscheiden zu können zwischen Hochdeutsch und gesprochenes Deutsch

Das was ich am schlimmsten finde, ist wenn man die Sprache durch Englische Wörte und Ausdrücke vergewaltigt, wenn man's genau so gut oder besser auf Deutsch ausdrücken könnte... (so wie "last minute reisen").

Naja, ich muß also sagen, ich finde es super toll, daß ihr alle hier sind um diese Sachen zu bereden!  Ich habe manchmal Fragen über die Bedeutung von einem Wort oder einer idiomatischen Redewendung, und wüßte nicht wohin damit.  Danke für die Mitarbeit!

Servus, Ciao,

jon


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## gaer

Henryk said:
			
		

> In rare cases it's "denn".
> 
> As singer he's more known than as composer.
> Als Sänger ist er bekannter denn als Komponist.
> 
> But it's just used if two "als" follow one behind the other.


 
It must be:

As *a* singer he's more known than as *a* composer.

And "more known" is usually written as "better known".

I would write it this way:

_He's better known as a singer than as a composer._

Gaer


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## Whodunit

Henryk said:
			
		

> In rare cases it's "denn".
> 
> As singer he's more known than as composer.
> Als Sänger ist er bekannter denn als Komponist.
> 
> But it's just used if two "als" follow one behind the other.


 
"Denn" as a comparartive particle is more common in this one sentence:
*mehr denn je* (more than ever)


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## jebyler

gaer said:
			
		

> It must be:
> 
> As *a* singer he's more known than as *a* composer.
> 
> And "more known" is usually written as "better known".
> 
> I would write it this way:
> 
> _He's better known as a singer than as a composer._
> 
> Gaer



That's all well and good, but the nice thing about both german and english is that, despite the rules, you are free to rearrange your sentance structure for emphasis.  It all depends on what you want to say.  So, if you choose, go ahead and write "As a singer he is better known than as a composer."

Mann kann genau so gut auf Deutsch schreiben: "Er ist bekannter als Sänger denn als Komponist."  Es kommt darauf an, wie stark man etwas betonen will.


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## gaer

jebyler said:
			
		

> That's all well and good, but the nice thing about both german and english is that, despite the rules, you are free to rearrange your sentance structure for emphasis. It all depends on what you want to say. So, if you choose, go ahead and write "As a singer he is better known than as a composer."
> 
> Mann kann genau so gut auf Deutsch schreiben: "Er ist bekannter als Sänger denn als Komponist." Es kommt darauf an, wie stark man etwas betonen will.


I agree, although the way in which we reverse word order in German and English is not always the same.

For instance:

"As a singer he's better known than as a composer."

This is possible, and you might think of situation in which it would work very well, but I still think it would be a bit unusual in English. Regardless, my point was that in English we use the article "a".

Do you find "more known than" works in this sentence?

Gaer


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## morx

@jebyler:
This is certainly not a development of the Bavarian dialect...
I have heard people from Nordrhein-Westfalen say it too.
OK, it doesn't annoy me that much but it sounds like a lower level of the  German language, certainly not well in a Native speaker's ears.
I think dialects are great! (Even though I have a hard time understanding original Bavarians or Austrians..)
I just don't like it influencing the grammar too much!
Here they keep saying "Die Tasche ist mir" or "Das Buch ist ihm." or "Das Glas ist dem seins."
instead of using the the word "gehört" or the possessive pronouns.
You could say: "Die Tasche gehört mir" or "Das ist meine Tasche."
That's not only a Hessian thing either, as far as I know.

I have moved to the outer Frankfurt region from Hamburg (before that I lived in the States) and have of course altered my dialect a few times.
Meaning I had an American dialect, a dialect of Northern Germany and a Hessian dialect (which I still have now).
I don't mind the different dialects, I think they make it easier to identify yourself with your region - and that's great. It partially even creates community feeling.


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## jebyler

gaer said:
			
		

> I agree, although the way in which we reverse word order in German and English is not always the same.
> 
> For instance:
> 
> "As a singer he's better known than as a composer."
> 
> This is possible, and you might think of situation in which it would work very well, but I still think it would be a bit unusual in English. Regardless, my point was that in English we use the article "a".
> 
> Do you find "more known than" works in this sentence?
> 
> Gaer



"more known than" NEVER.  "more *reknowned* than"  works.  I'm definitely just an amatuer linguist, and not a very good one at that, so I couldn't possibly tell you the grammatical reasons for that, just that it works.


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## morx

without the "k"


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## gaer

jebyler said:
			
		

> "more known than" NEVER. "more *renowned* than" works. I'm definitely just an amatuer linguist, and not a very good one at that, so I couldn't possibly tell you the grammatical reasons for that, just that it works.


I did not think of that, and it's excellent. Yes, that works! Now the reversed order sounds entirely natural to me in English. 

Gaer


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## Henryk

Ich dachte eigentlich, dass ich mich auf das eine Online-Wörterbuch verlassen kann (http://www2.dict.cc/?s=more+known ). Entweder scheint dem nicht so oder ich irre mich.

Nun ja, man lernt immer dazu.


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## gaer

Henryk said:
			
		

> Ich dachte eigentlich, dass ich mich auf das eine Online-Wörterbuch verlassen kann (http://www2.dict.cc/?s=more+known ). Entweder scheint dem nicht so oder ich irre mich.
> 
> Nun ja, man lernt immer dazu.


"More known than" is used, but it sounds wrong to my ears. Others may not agree. I found this:

Results 1 - 10 of about 249,000 for "better known than".
Results 1 - 10 of about 15,800 for "more known than". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 24,600,000 for "better known". 
Results 1 - 10 of about 609,000 for "more known".

As always, this does not prove anything, but in this case I think it reflects usage and what sounds best. However, I don't have any rules to base my opinion on! 

Gaer


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## selters

Henryk said:
			
		

> In rare cases it's "denn".
> 
> As singer he's more known than as composer.
> Als Sänger ist er bekannter denn als Komponist.
> 
> But it's just used if two "als" follow one behind the other.


 
Ist es möglich

_Als Sänger ist er bekannter als als Komponist._

zu schreiben?


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## Lykurg

Ja, allerdings würde ich versuchen, es zu vermeiden.

Entweder "... denn als Komponist" (gehoben, veraltet)

oder "Er ist ein bekannterer Sänger als Komponist" - das ist aber auch keine ideale Lösung.


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## Henryk

Lykurg said:
			
		

> Ja, allerdings würde ich versuchen, es zu vermeiden.
> 
> Entweder "... denn als Komponist" (gehoben, veraltet)
> 
> oder "Er ist ein bekannterer Sänger als Komponist" - das ist aber auch keine ideale Lösung.


_ "Er ist ein bekannterer Sänger als Komponist"_
Der Satz sagt aber etwas komplett anderes aus, nämlich, dass er als Komponist ein bekannterer Sänger ist (und wenn er nicht Komponist wäre? Der Satz ist sinnlos). Hier ist ein Vergleich gefragt und daher ist "denn als" die einzig ordentliche Version und zudem auch kein gehobenes Deutsch.


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## jebyler

Henryk said:
			
		

> _  Hier ist ein Vergleich gefragt und daher ist "denn als" die einzig ordentliche Version und zudem auch kein gehobenes Deutsch._


_

In Bayern ist alles, was mit Hochdeutsch zu tun hat "gehobenes Deutsch." _


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## DerDrache

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Scotty Love, thats --> that's
> 
> Jana



Just some fyi, in common internet English, omitting the apostrophe is okay. Although you had good intentions, I feel I should point out that you can come off as pompous for correcting such errors.  

Eh, BUT, this is a language forum, so I suppose even minor errors like that are best pointed out (for learners' sakes).


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## Jana337

DerDrache said:
			
		

> Just some fyi, in common internet English, omitting the apostrophe is okay.


Sure but...





> Although you had good intentions, I feel I should point out that you can come off as pompous for correcting such errors.


... I don't really mind because Internet English is not allowed here:


> Except as a topic of discussion, chatspeak and SMS style are not acceptable. Members must do their best to write using standard language forms. Rules





> Eh, BUT, this is a language forum, so I suppose even minor errors like that are best pointed out (for learners' sakes).


Exactly. 

Jana


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## gaer

DerDrache said:
			
		

> I feel I should point out that you can come off as pompous for correcting such errors.


You are either forgetting or do not know that people come here from many different countries to learn correct English. This is why we are all very careful. Jana would also correct me, for the same reason.

We all correct each other.

Try to imagine for a moment that you were learning English as a second or third language. If you saw "thats", you might be confused, or you might assume this is the correct way to spell the contraction.

That's the reason for the "strictness". It has nothing to do with being pompous. You have no idea how hard Jana works (and all the moderators work) to make this site what it is. 

Gaer


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## Rah

Kajjo used an example: "Ich bin nicht einmal halb so alt wie Erna."

 Is it not the case that when the sentence is positive, zB,
"Ich bin älter _*als*_ du"
then you use *als,* but when it is negative, zB,
"ich bin nicht so alt wie du" 
then you have to use *wie?*

Danke, Rah


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## Sidjanga

Hi,





Rah said:


> (...)Is it not the case that when the sentence is positive, zB,
> "Ich bin älter _*als*_ du"
> then you use *als,* but when it is negative, zB,
> "ich bin nicht so alt wie du"
> then you have to use *wie?*(...)


The question is not if the sentence as such is negated or not, but just if something is (or is not) *as *[big/good/old/as much] *as *something else (equality; *so...wie*), or if it is (or is not) [bigg*er*/bett*er*/old*er*/*more] than *something else you are comparing it with.

I thinks it's actually the same in English.

_Ich bin ält*er* *als* du. - I am old*er* *than *you.
Ich bin *so *alt *wie *du. - I am *as *old *as *you (are)._

This aspect doesn't change at all when negating the sentences:

_Ich bin nicht älter __*als* du. - I am not older *than *you.
Ich bin nicht *so *alt *wie *du. - I am not *as *old *as *you are.

_And equallywith the sentence you've quoted:

_Ich bin halb *so* alt *wie *Erna. - I am half *as *old *as *Erna (is).
Ich bin nicht halb *so *alt *wie *Erna. - I am not half *as *old *as *Erna (is).
Ich bin nicht einmal halb *so *alt *wie *Erna. - I am not even half *as *old *as *Erna (is)._

I don't think there's any mystery to it - and I hope to have answered your question.


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## Rah

Aha, yes - that is very clear, it is indeed just the same difference between "as" and "than" in English.
Thank you Sigianga!


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