# She o he, para objetos



## TarjaTurunen

En inglés, se puede hacer como en español, que cariñosamente personificamos a las cosas?, como por ej:

Mi calculadora se rompió. *Ella* siempre me ayudaba.

My calculator is broken. "She" always helped me. 

Se puede utilizar algo del estilo?


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## PACOALADROQUE

Yo he oido a los miembros de la Marina de Guerra de  EE. UU. referirse con "she" cuando hablan del barco donde están destinados.

Saludos


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## elmexingles

Pacoaladroque tiene toda la razon. En ingles utilizamos "She" para un barco, solamente. 

No se utiliza en ningun otro contexto, realmente, por ende, el ejemplo de la calculadora no funcionaria en ingles. 

Gracias

Dave


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## obz

elmexingles said:


> Pacoaladroque tiene toda la razon. En ingles utilizamos "She" para un barco, solamente.



Not entirely true. Depending on the circle of friends "she" can be used quite commonly for inanimate objects, colloquially of course.

Just today I took a friend to a burger place he had never been to, while he was eating his meal I asked "How is she?". He said "That's a great burger!"

Certainly not formal English, and not something you should put in an essay, but colloquially you are more than welcomed to assign a gender to objects. Just be sure to avoid ambiguity with other "shes".. as in a female who may be a subject in the conversation etc.


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## elmexingles

obz said:


> Not entirely true. Depending on the circle of friends "she" can be used quite commonly for inanimate objects, colloquially of course.
> 
> Just today I took a friend to a burger place he had never been to, while he was eating his meal I asked "How is she?". He said "That's a great burger!"
> 
> Certainly not formal English, and not something you should put in an essay, but colloquially you are more than welcomed to assign a gender to objects. Just be sure to avoid ambiguity with other "shes".. as in a female who may be a subject in the conversation etc.


 
That's not true, at all. You would never say "how is she" when talking about how good a Burger is......


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## obz

elmexingles said:


> That's not true, at all. You would never say "how is she" when talking about how good a Burger is......



Well yes, yes it is true, as I pointed out "colloquially". I said it myself and the international grammar police neither arrested or fined me. 

Perhaps _you _would never, and that's fine. Cars, computers, and many other inanimate object can be, and are referred to as "feminine". As a "rule" yes, the pronoun "it" is used, but surely some part of your daily speech varies from the rules.


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## elmexingles

OK. I hold my hands up, there. I hadn't thought of Cars and that's a good example to use "She's a good runner" etc. 

But the burger example really isn't a good one as I have never heard of it, ever, nor have I ever heard/seen it used on TV, Films etc so I would say that it's a very colloquial usage between your circle of family and friends and certainly not one to use on this board.   

Cheers

Dave


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## kalamazoo

Boats and ships are "she."  Cars, maybe sometimes. Burgers???? Sounds completely bizarre to me.  Except for boats and maybe cars, I recommend that you only use "it" for inanimate objects.


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## obz

elmexingles said:


> But the burger example really isn't a good one as I have never heard of it, ever, nor have I ever heard/seen it used on TV, Films etc



Well, some of the local Canadian jargon has worn off on me apparently, the point was to highlight the possibility of colloquial use of the feminine pronoun with inanimate objects.

Not sure what I can do beyond underlining the word _colloquial, _emphasizing the informality of it's use, and reiterating that it will depend on the persons involved, while still pointing out its real word validity.

I apologize if you take exception to the abstraction of the example, but I included all reasonable caveats .

Hamburgers or cars just runs down to opinion and taste (no pun intended )


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## elmexingles

obz said:


> Well, some of the local Canadian jargon has worn off on me apparently, the point was to highlight the possibility of colloquial use of the feminine pronoun with inanimate objects.
> 
> Not sure what I can do beyond underlining the word _colloquial, _emphasizing the informality of it's use, and reiterating that it will depend on the persons involved, while still pointing out *it's* real word validity.
> 
> I apologize if you take exception to the abstraction of the example, but I included all reasonable caveats .
> 
> Hamburgers or cars just runs down to opinion and taste (no pun intended )


 
It's = It is


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## obz

elmexingles said:


> It's = It is



Indeed *it is*. Typo obliterated, thank you.


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## mhp

TarjaTurunen said:


> En inglés, se puede hacer como en español, que cariñosamente personificamos a las cosas?, como por ej:
> 
> Mi calculadora se rompió. *Ella* siempre me ayudaba.
> 
> My calculator is broken. "She" always helped me.
> 
> Se puede utilizar algo del estilo?




Here, "ella" means "it". 

una calculadora = ella, ésta, ésa, aquélla, etc.
a calculator = it, this one, that one, etc.


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## Agró

Could the moon or the sun ever be referred to as "she"? I think I have heard it as being so.


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## ZaphodBeeblebrox

Boats are the only example where this practice is very well defined and familiar in the English language, but other important examples would include countries and other types of vehicles (e.g., a car, a spaceship). "How is she?" in reference to a burger or a calculator sounds like it could work, to me. There's certainly no problem with this gramatically. At some point, this practice is not a definite feature of the language so much as it is a spontaneous creative expression meant to communicate a subtle emotion.

The sun and moon are very often personified in poetry or literature. In this case, they could easily be "she," but in general, if I'm pointing out the moon to someone, I'm never going to say "look at her, she's waxing."


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## obz

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> At some point, this practice is not a definite feature of the language so much as it is a spontaneous creative expression meant to communicate a subtle emotion.



Exactly!


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## kalamazoo

At least in my opinion, any non-native speaker should definitely avoid this "creative" use of pronouns for things like hamburgers or ham sandwiches and stick to "it."  I frankly have never heard this use of she for something like a hamburger and it sounds completely bizarre to me.


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## elmexingles

ZaphodBeeblebrox said:


> Boats are the only example where this practice is very well defined and familiar in the English language, but other important examples would include countries and other types of vehicles (e.g., a car, a spaceship). *"How is she?" in reference to a burger or a calculator sounds like it could work, to me*. There's certainly no problem with this gramatically. At some point, this practice is not a definite feature of the language so much as it is a spontaneous creative expression meant to communicate a subtle emotion.
> 
> The sun and moon are very often personified in poetry or literature. In this case, they could easily be "she," but in general, if I'm pointing out the moon to someone, I'm never going to say "look at her, she's waxing."


 
I am becoming rather bemused by this forum....sincerely. 

How on earth can you possibly say that a burger or a calculator could fall into this category of personification...it's just plain wrong. 

I have nothing more to say on the matter, except to say the following:

Tarja Turunen - Please don't ever use this style of personification when talking about burgers or calculators. 

Just stick to ships/boats/cars etc..,.i..e. as described above.

Thanks

Dave


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## mhp

It should be pointed out that there is nothing creative or imaginative in referring to “una calculadora” as “ella” in Spanish. In Spanish, it is simply a question of grammar. The corresponding pronoun in English is “it”.


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## obz

elmexingles said:


> How on earth can you possibly say that a burger or a calculator could fall into this category of personification...it's just plain wrong.



It's not plain wrong, it's something _you _don't say. It's called creative license, and she does happen ) ).
No one has implied that it's a regular usage, only that it's possible. 

I totally yield in that "hamburger" was a bad example, computer, car, calculator, a machine of just about any class however, is _not_.
For _you_ it ends with "boat", for others, well we can stretch the language in a different way without getting all flabbergasted.


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## elmexingles

obz said:


> It's not plain wrong, it's something _you _don't say. It's called creative license, and she does happen ) ).
> No one has implied that it's a regular usage, only that it's possible.
> 
> I totally yield in that "hamburger" was a bad example, computer, car, *calculator,* a machine of just about any class however, is _not_.
> For _you_ it ends with "boat", for others, well we can stretch the language in a different way without getting all flabbergasted*.[/*QUOTE]
> 
> jajaja y DAAAALE con tu calculadora jajajajaja
> 
> It's not a question of what I say or what you say, it's just not an acceptable form of speech.
> 
> Asking someone who is eating a hamburger, using a calculator or even using a computer: How is she? just does not work and should never be applied by any speaker of English; whether he/she be a native/a second lanaguage speaker...whichever.
> 
> In everyday speech, it works stricly with forms of vehicles/transportation (i.e. BOATS, SHIPS, CARS), but that's it.
> 
> And by the way, that first line that you have put shows just how silly and how wrong it sounds ("It's called creative license, and she does happen"). It doesn't even make sense and you have kind of defeated your own argument.
> 
> Goodbye


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## kalamazoo

I agree 100% with elmexingles.  Do not use "she" for inanimate objects other than boats or ships.  Do not refer to calculators as "she."  Do not refer to hamburgers as "she."


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## OrCuS

I'm not a native speaker but I don't see why a car can be called "she" and a calculator can not. I think the intend is to express that this thing is so important to you, or so good or special, that It shouldn't be considered a simple object. Just the same as you wouldn't call your own dog an "it", would you?

Some kind of silly joke after all, serious people wouldn't understand


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## mhp

OrCuS said:


> Some kind of silly joke after all, serious people wouldn't understand


 As long as we are joking: Men "ride" a cars or a boat for pleasure, they  normally do not "ride" calculators and hamburgers for that  purpose. 

As for the dog, it can be called a he or a she because it is not an  object.


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## kalamazoo

It has nothing to do with being special.  There is a fixed convention of referring to boats and ships as "she."  This sometimes, though less traditionally, extends to cars. It does not extend to calculators or other inanimate objects.


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## jdprov31

I have heard my dad, uncles, brothers and husband say "she's a beauty" about more than boats or cars . . . however, it's always been in reference to something built by men (and by "men" I mean built by human hands), and frequently something they have built themselves (a well-built piece of furniture, for example).  

It is much less common to hear a woman say something like this.  And, interestingly, I have NEVER heard anyone, man or woman, refer to objects as "he".  Never heard, "he's one sweet car", etc. . . .

So, referring to the hamburger thing. . . I guess if you made a masterpiece hamburger, you might say, "Isn't she a beauty?" right before you wolf it down -- but it's a stretch.  And I have to agree with others who have posted recommendations for non-native speakers to avoid this use.  You could end up sounding really silly.


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## padelista

He leído en un libro una frase en la cual se refiere con "he" a la mascota. (¿?)


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## jdprov31

padelista said:


> He leído en un libro una frase en la cual se refiere con "he" a la mascota. (¿?)


 
Sí, y es completamente correcto en ese caso, porque es un animal, y es de sexo masculino o de sexo femenino.  Es decir, no es precisamente un objeto, sino una criatura.


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## Juan Nadie

mhp said:


> As long as we are joking: Men "ride" a cars or a boat for pleasure, they  normally do not "ride" calculators and hamburgers for that  purpose.





			
				jdprov31 said:
			
		

> It is much less common to hear a woman say something like this. And, interestingly, I have NEVER heard anyone, man or woman, refer to objects as "he". Never heard, "he's one sweet car", etc. . . .


I wonder... A woman "riding" a car wouldn't call it "he"? Because if I do the same parallelism and she "rides" "she"... or is it something that just a certain kind of people would do, or this is something that in general women wouldn't say and the personification is just something men do (in English and for everyday objects, no poetry or whatever), and so they just don't care that much??
Just plain curious.


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## jdprov31

Juan Nadie, those are really good questions. I suppose it is possible that a woman might refer to her car as "he", or even as "she", but I have never heard of it. 

I don't think it's a "certain kind of person" that would refer to a car as "she", but I do think that type of personification is almost exclusive to men in English. 

If my husband said to me, about his Jeep (which he loves! ), "Isn't she a beauty?", I would not find it strange or offensive, and I might even answer "yes, she is." I would only say it as a response to his original personification of the Jeep. 

I would find it very odd if another woman said to me, about her own car, "Isn't she great?" or "Isn't he great?"

A ship is a different story.  I think it is common to hear _anyone_ in English, male or female, refer to a ship as "she."  This is a unique instance in English, in my opinion.


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## Juan Nadie

jdprov31 said:


> Juan Nadie, those are really good questions Thanks. Really kind. I suppose it is possible that a woman might refer to her car as "he", or even as "she", but I have never heard of it.
> 
> I don't think it's a "certain kind of person" that would refer to a car as "she", but I do think that type of personification is almost exclusive to men in English.
> 
> If my husband said to me, about his Jeep (which he loves! ), "Isn't she a beauty?", I would not find it strange or offensive, and I might even answer "yes, she is." I would only say it as a response to his original personification of the Jeep.
> 
> I would find it very odd if another woman said to me, about her own car, "Isn't she great?" or "Isn't he great?"
> 
> A ship is a different story.  I think it is common to hear _anyone_ in English, male or female, refer to a ship as "she."  This is a unique instance in English, in my opinion.


Thank you for answer.

Allow me to go a little further.
-If I am not wrong motorbikes would suffer this personification the same as cars. Am I wrong?
-What about trains and planes? Would a pilot call a plane "she"?
-If a man said to you about a car with a "male logo" "Isn't he great?" would it be odd? By "male logo" I mean that the emblem representative of that car would be something no-doubt male. Something like this, maybe.
-If it were a rocket or missile (falic representations) would it be personified? As she? 
-And finally, I don't know if the size of the engine is important, but maybe a space shuttle or a wide-body aircraft wouldn't be the same that a little rocket or a light aircraft. For personification purpouses, this is.


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## jdprov31

Juan Nadie said:


> Thank you for answer.
> 
> Allow me to go a little further.
> -If I am not wrong motorbikes would suffer this personification the same as cars. Am I wrong?
> -What about trains and planes? Would a pilot call a plane "she"?
> -If a man said to you about a car with a "male logo" "Isn't he great?" would it be odd? By "male logo" I mean that the emblem representative of that car would be something no-doubt male. Something like this, maybe.
> -If it were a rocket or missile (falic representations) would it be personified? As she?
> -And finally, I don't know if the size of the engine is important, but maybe a space shuttle or a wide-body aircraft wouldn't be the same that a little rocket or a light aircraft. For personification purpouses, this is.


 
Yes, motorbikes. trains, and planes (and rockets and missiles) could all fall into this personification category.  I don't think it would ever have anything to do with how masculine or feminine the decor of the object is.  Neither would it matter the particular size of the object or of its engine.   
Rather, the personification is indicative of the relationship between the owner, creator, or operator and the object.  The object ceases to be "an object" in that person's eyes, and "she" can be touched, fondled, admired, and appreciated.  "She" has value.


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## kalamazoo

"She" is correct English for a ship or boat.

"She" can sometimes be used colloquially in English for a car or a motorbike and maybe even for a plane, but it's not correct English and there is no problem with using "it" instead of "she."

I have never heard "he" used in any of these ways.

Pets can certainly be called "he" or "she."  Anything (a person or an animal) with an actual gender, rather than a grammatical gender, should be referred to as "he" or "she" and not as "it."  It's okay to refer to a pet or an animal as "it" if you don't know the gender or the gender isn't important.


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## Juan Nadie

OK, thanks.
There is something that just doesn't feel right, because if it is just personification, I can't see how it fits that women or men wouldn't call "he" to objects.
I guess this goes into the bag of things that are just like that. Bear it or accept it.
Cheers.


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## jdprov31

kalamazoo said:


> "She" is correct English for a ship or boat.
> 
> "She" can sometimes be used colloquially in English for a car or a motorbike and maybe even for a plane, but it's not correct English and there is no problem with using "it" instead of "she."
> 
> I have never heard "he" used in any of these ways.
> 
> Pets can certainly be called "he" or "she." Anything (a person or an animal) with an actual gender, rather than a grammatical gender, should be referred to as "he" or "she" and not as "it." It's okay to refer to a pet or an animal as "it" if you don't know the gender or the gender isn't important.


 
Good clarification, kalamazoo.  I did not mean to suggest that it is only correct for a man to refer to his car or his boat as "she."  In fact, I'm sure it is much more common for all English speakers to refer to all objects as "it."


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