# All Slavic languages: člověk (human/man/one) in impersonal constructions



## jazyk

This sentence got me thinking: 



> Díky, shiftere. Předpokládám, že anglické slovo "transport" zahrnuje oba pojmy a člověk se musí rozhodovat podle kontextu.


Translation: Thanks, shiftere. I assume that the English word "transport" covers both concepts and one has to decide according to context.

I don't recall having seen Polish człowiek and Russian человек being used as "indefinite pronouns". Is that possible in those two languages? Do other Slavic languages use the noun člověk or any variation thereof as an "indefinite pronoun"?

I used _indefinite pronoun_ in quotation marks because I'm not sure what is the name that that word receives in Czech grammar, but that's beside the point here. In other languages, člověk here would be equal to German/Swedish man, Spanish/Italian uno, French on and Catalan hom. Most Romance languages could use _se_ or variations thereof in the same way.

Thanks for your answers.


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## dudasd

Члов±кь (Medieval Slavonic), чeлов±кь (Church Slavonic), человек (Russian), човек/čovek (Serbian), čovjek (Croatian, Bosnian) – 1) homo sapiens, human; 2) man, male human. 

Irregular plurar люди,ljudi– 1) human race, humans (both male and female) 2) men.

When the accent is on gender, word муж, мушкарац/muškarac is used instead. ("Muškarci i žene." – "Men and women.")

It is commonly used instead of "one": One can't have a rest here! – Čovek se ovde ne može odmoriti!

Probably because of masculine gender of the noun, in universal phrases masculine gender is dominant too:

Ko nije bio tamo, ne može zamisliti kako je bilo. (The one who wasn't there, can't imagine how it was.)

Nisi se odmorio ako ne odspavaš makar šest sati. (One won't be rested until he sleeps six hours at least.)

In everyday speach, you can also hear phrase "Hey, man!" used in addresing a woman (as an exclamation of wonder or a "filling-in-the-gaps" word).

Derived nouns, adjectives and adverbs show very explicitely the primary meaning of čovek/ljudi and the difference between čovek and muž, muškarac (I am writing only Serbian variants, but the meaning is the same in all the mentioned languages): 

- čovečanstvo (human race, noun), čovečji (human, adj.), ljudski (human adj. and adv.), ljudstvo (staff, personell), etc.

- muški (male, adj.), muško (male, noun, neutrum!), muškarača (noun, femininum - "woman of male behaviour").


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## Carrie2

jazyk said:


> I don't recall having seen Polish człowiek and Russian человек being used as "indefinite pronouns". Is that possible in those two languages?


 
It certainly is in Russian, yes.


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## slavian1

In Polish we also sometimes use "cz³owiek" in such cases.
Generally *one *can use different constructions.
(Generalnie *cz³owiek mo¿e*/*u¿ywa siê/mo¿na *u¿yæ innych konstrukcji).

I've translated the second sentence using such constructions. 
In Polish we have impersonal forms of verbs witch are prefered in the cases.


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## jazyk

> It certainly is in Russian, yes.


So can I say?



> Díky, shiftere. Předpokládám, že anglické slovo "transport" zahrnuje oba pojmy a člověk se musí rozhodovat podle kontextu.


Спасибо, shiftere. Я предполагаю, что английское словo transport охватывает оба понятия и человеку надо решать согласно контексту.

I wouldn't use человеку there, I don't think it's necessary, but as you said, it might as well be okay.


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## Carrie2

Yes, I agree with you, you don't need человеку here, although strictly speaking it's grammatically correct. Also, I'd use покрывает rather than охватывает here, although I'm not a native speaker and you should bear that in mind when you consider my advice! 

Also, while I'm feeling pedantic, in Russian you need a comma between понятия and и человеку, and if you're only talking about one instance I'd use решить instead of решать, although without the context of the original (Czech) sentence I can't really say.

Hope all this helps!


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## jazyk

I used решать in Russian because the original Czech rozhodovat is imperfective. You may be right about the comma, though, but that's the least of my worries now.


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## Carrie2

OK, fair enough!


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## papillon

jazyk said:


> So can I say?
> 
> Спасибо, shiftere. Я предполагаю, что английское словo transport охватывает оба понятия и человеку надо решать согласно контексту.


Hmm, I've been tossing this in my head for a while, difficult to say. The phrase doesn't sound wrong, but somehow does come off as less than idiomatic.

I think that the word человек can indeed be used as the equivalent of "one", but not always; one (  ) needs to develop a feel for when to use it. The most common use, of course, is when having a particular человек in mind.
Зачем Игорю понадобилось в Турцию ехать? Сидел бы дома, денег бы сэкономил!
А если человеку отдохнуть захотелось, почему бы и не поехать?
In this case, notice the subtle difference between this phrase and one that uses a regular pronoun:
А если ему отдохнуть захотелось, почему бы и не поехать?
In the latter case, you are explicitely referring back to Igor. In the former, you are formally making a general statement, but, of course, with Igor in mind.

And indeed, the word sometimes can be used for general statements.
Иногда человеку приходиться принимать трудные решения.

However, in the phrase you have given, I prefer leaving человек out.

*I think both охватывает and покрывает are fine. 
* If this is a general statement (which it appears to be), indeed imperfective решать is better.


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## jazyk

I think neither Papillon nor I like человек in that Russian sentence because надо is an impersonal expression and человек is a vague word, which makes it redundant, so I thought _Why not try it with another sentence_? I'll get one from my _Slovník spisovné češtiny_ so I'll be as unbiased as possible:

Člověk neví, co dělat.

Which translates literally as:

Человек не знает, что делать.

My Czech dictionary says that's an informal use of the word _člověk_. My question is thus: would the last sentence be acceptable in Russian, at least colloquially?


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## skye

It's possible to use človek as an indefinite word in Slovenian as well: 

Človek mora biti vztrajen. - One has to be persistant. 

I'm not sure if it's a pronoun.


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