# what might a liceo classico equate to in AE?



## Tegs

Hello all,

I'm translating a CV in which the person says they attended a "liceo classico" in Italy. How does this translate to the American school system? (The application is being sent to the US).

I was intending to keep the title of the school the same, but put a translation beside it to explain what it is. From Wikipedia and WR, it seems that in BE, the closest thing to a liceo classico would be a secondary school. 

Can any AE speakers help me out here? A liceo classico is from 14 to 19 years old, and seems to have a strong slant towards teaching literature, Greek, Latin etc. Could I call it a "high school", or a "high school specializing in humanities subjects"? 

Thanks


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## AlabamaBoy

I am not an expert, but I think I would understand a traditional liberal arts high school.


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## L'Enrico

Interesting question.
On the one hand, if there's no fixed term for translating that, it might be best to just say High School, or the examiner might start to wonder why this guy needed a specialisation in humanities subjects.
On the other hand, all our high schools are specialised. We have a "Classical", a "Scientific", a "Linguistic", or an "Artistic" high school to choose from (I hope I haven't left something out). To the extent that we often say "Ho fatto il classico/lo scientifico/ ecc.", to indicate what type of studies we were directed towards in our youth. It is also true, though, that all those high schools have a lot of subjects in common, and that they differentiate in only a fraction (albeit sometimes a big one) of their curricula.
So, perhaps you could say High School (XXX studies). Just an idea.


[EDIT: a "classical" high school is one geared towards the study of our tradition. You have a lot of Greek and Latin (both language and literature), and less Mathematics and Physics. I also think there's no Chemistry or Biology, but I might remember it wrong]

E.


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## joanvillafane

Tegs, I'll tag on to L'Enrico's question about why this information might be needed in a CV. Is the liceo classico experience relevant to a job the person is seeking? or is the CV being sent as part of an application to a higher education institution?
These answers might be relevant.  As for "liceo classico," there is really no equivalent.  However, some districts do have specialized high schools, sometimes called academies, for specific disciplines, such as Arts High School, Science High School, Technology High School, etc.  Very individual to specific areas.   Do you know where the CV is being sent? Perhaps some equivalence to the local school system might be found.

edit: here's one example from New Jersey - the "academies" are called "Learning Centers."
http://www.frhsd.com/district/index.php?q=curriculum/lcacad


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## longplay

Non vi posso fornire il link, ma nel WR Dictionary  c'è una possibile traduzione che usa , però, "secondary school". Cosa si capisce in inglese con "secondary" ?
Forse si deve specificare "five years high school ...) . Ciao. PS Bisogna cercare "liceo" oppure "classico".


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## Tegs

longplay said:


> Non vi posso fornire il link, ma nel WR Dictionary  c'è una possibile traduzione che usa , però, "secondary school". Cosa si capisce in inglese con "secondary" ?



Sì, è per quello che lo menzionavo nel mio post - 


> From Wikipedia and WR, it seems that in BE, the closest thing to a liceo classico would be a secondary school.



Il problema è che "secondary school" (per i ragazzi di 12 a 18 anni) è inglese britannico mentre io cerco l'equivalente in inglese americano 

Joanne - the school isn't relevant really, since the job being applied for has nothing to do with the education sector. The fact that there was a bias towards humanities isn't really that relevant either to the job. I guess to me, "liceo classico" sounds a lot more grandiose than "high school", so I was curious as to whether that's the best translation  (It's being sent to Portland, OR.)


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## AlabamaBoy

If you look at the wiki entry for "secondary school" under "United States" you will see that "secondary school" is ambiguous and has various meanings depending on the district. I think the term that would be most understood in the USA would be "traditional high school."

If you need to specify that humanities was the emphasis, I would say "traditional liberal arts high school."

If you further need to specify that it is a 5 year high school I would say  "traditional liberal arts high school (8th-12th grades)."

I would only specify the liberal arts and 5 years if for some reason it is specifically relevant in the CV.

EDIT: Tegs, it appears that it is not relevant so my best suggestion is: (traditional) high school. Traditional is optional.


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## joanvillafane

We use "secondary school" here, too, but it's a very generic term - doesn't provide any information at all about the type of school. (and it's usually 4 years, not 5).  I'd use the "liceo classico" in Italian, then, with a brief note - something like, "specialization in the Humanities," or "specialization in Greek and Latin," if that's what it was.


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## Tegs

Cheers - thanks very much everyone. I think I'll stick with "traditional high school" then and leave the info about liberal arts since it isn't hugely important. Joanne - interesting note about the use of "secondary school" in New Jersey. I thought that was specific to BE (and IE)


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## joanvillafane

OK, but just to be clear - I meant "secondary school" just as a term referring to the grades between elementary and college .
Nobody I know would say they are attending "Roosevelt Secondary School," for example.  It would not be in the name of the school.


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## L'Enrico

AlabamaBoy said:


> I would only specify the liberal arts and 5 years if for some reason it is specifically relevant in the CV.
> 
> EDIT: Tegs, it appears that it is not relevant so my best suggestion is: (traditional) high school. Traditional is optional.





I agree. I would also just say High School.
We often add the specialisation because all our high schools are specialised. But if the majority of high schools in the US are not, that extra bit of information could be misunderstood. 

E.


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## Tegs

Ok, thanks for the clarifications  

Joanne - good to know! I was wondering about that, because in all American films I have seen, the secondary schools have "X High School" on the outside


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## ElFrikiChino

I tried to explain to an American professor what kind of High School I attended here in Italy, and she came up with _High School with concentration in Maths and Sciences_ (Liceo Scientifico). I had no idea in the US there is no "specialization", that you get the same piece of paper no matter what HS you attend. The class (all Americans) and I spent some interesting time trying to get past this gap.

EFC


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## Tegs

ElFrikiChino said:


> I had no idea in the US there is no "specialization", that you get the same piece of paper no matter what HS you attend. The class (all Americans) and I spent some interesting time trying to get past this gap.
> 
> EFC



I didn't know that either  In the US, does everyone have to do the exact same subjects up until the age of 18 then, or can they choose to specialize in specific fields when in High School, like choosing to study Italian rather than geography? I can see that explaining a liceo scientifico or other types of liceo to a English speaker could be problematic if the concept doesn't exist really in the States...


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## joanvillafane

Tegs, there is no single answer to your question.  Schools here are designed within state guidelines but each school district within the state has its own policies.  If you check out the link I posted (post #4) you'll see one example of a large suburban regional district with many choices for high school programs.  I didn't mention it before, but this type of program where students select their courses and then attend the corresponding school, is usually done for purposes of distributing the population to avoid racial segregation.  In New Jersey alone, there are more than 600 independent school districts. There are minimum state requirements for a high school diploma, so all students must have 4 years of English, for example, but there is also some flexibility in choice of courses.  Big topic.  Don't know how much more I can add here.....


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## Tegs

Thanks Joanne - and thanks also for the link (I didn't have time to have a proper look at it earlier, oops- I've had a look at it now though ). From your explanation, it does seem like a large topic, and much more complex than the UK and Italian school systems. I can see why it makes sense not to translate some types of schools and why it's better to try to add a translated explanation instead. Thanks for the help


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## AlabamaBoy

Tegs, for example, where I went to high school, you had to complete some specified courses: English - either basic grammar or advanced literature, math - either basic or up to advanced algebra and calculus, some sort of science such as biology, and history, and either band or physical education. Oh yes, you had to take spelling.

You could elect to take on the job training as a mechanic, machinist, draftsman, or even sales. You could elect to take French, German, Spanish, Latin, or Russian. You could elect to take chemistry, physics, typing, theater, or home economics. We are talking about almost 50 years ago!

But you can see, not everyone took the same courses.


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## Tegs

Ok, so that sounds a bit like the UK system then - definitely quite dissimilar to the Italian liceo system, as l'Enrico and ElFriki mentioned. Thanks


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## Matrap

Hi Tegs



> I can see why it makes sense not to translate some types of schools and  why it's better to try to add a translated explanation instead.





Speaking of which I think your first attempt in post #1 ("high school specializing in humanities subjects") is a good definition in my humble opinion.


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## london calling

Matrap said:


> Speaking of which I think your first attempt in post #1 ("high school specializing in humanities subjects") is a good definition in my humble opinion.



But _Humanities _means History and Geography to me, or at least that's what it was when I went to school, so I'm afraid I have to disagree with you both there, but I agree it's best to offer an explanation regards the kind of education you get from it.

As all you people have already pointed out, in a _Liceo Classico_ (non quello sperimentale, quello tradizionale) there is heavy emphasis on the Classics.


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## Tegs

london calling said:


> But _Humanities _means History and Geography to me, or at least that's what it was when I went to school, so I'm afraid I have to disagree with you both there, but I agree it's best to offer an explanation regards the kind of education you get from it.
> 
> As all you people have already pointed out, in a _Liceo Classico_ (non quello sperimentale, quello tradizionale) there is heavy emphasis on the Classics.



I think this has changed a wee bit - in UK universities, Colleges of Arts and Humanities have courses in languages, linguistics, music, history, theology and media studies, but no geography. But I get your point that this isn't what a Liceo Classico teaches, so if I wanted to further qualify the school, I'd be better off calling it a  (traditional) high school specializing in the Classics. Or Liberal Arts if AB's suggestion in #post 2 works for Classics too


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## giginho

Hi mates!

Just to add a piece of information about what a liceo classico teaches to you:

Latin (up to 10 hours a week for the whole 5 years!)
Greek (idem)
Italian (idem)
History
Philosophy
Maths (a little bit, just up to 4 hours per week)
Phisics (just 2 hours a week for the last two years)
Biology and Chemistry (just the last 2 years)

Those are the most important subjects. 

Cheers!


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## tsoapm

giginho said:


> Greek (ditto)
> Italian (ditto)




*Edit:* Egad! The OED just told me we take that from _toscano_!


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## Tegs

giginho said:


> Hi mates!
> 
> Just to add a piece of information about what a liceo classico teaches to you:
> 
> Latin (up to 10 hours a week for the whole 5 years!)
> Greek (idem)
> Italian (idem)



Those 10 hours a week for 5 years do teach you something though - "idem" 

PS Seeing Mark's post reminds me - idem is mainly used in English when you are referencing the same source twice in an academic/scientific paper  Otherwise, like Mark says, use 'ditto'.


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## giginho

Mark Dobson said:


>



Why? 

idem

Tegs do not overrate myself!!!! just "idem"!


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## tsoapm

If you mean why the face, it was just to indicate a helpful little correction. If you mean why the word, Tegs is right, above.


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## london calling

> *Edit:* Egad! The OED just told me we take that from _toscano_!


I was also told it comes from a Tuscan dialect (= a corruption of "detto").


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## Pat (√2)

giginho said:


> Latin (up to *10 hours a week *for the whole 5 years!)
> Greek (idem)
> Italian (idem)



Eeeehhhhh?!  Gig, solo queste farebbero 30 ore la settimana


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## giginho

Mark Dobson said:


> If you mean why the face, it was just to indicate a helpful little correction. If you mean why the word, Tegs is right, above.





Tegs said:


> Those 10 hours a week for 5 years do teach you something though - "idem"
> 
> PS Seeing Mark's post reminds me - idem is mainly used in English when you are referencing the same source twice in an academic/scientific paper  Otherwise, like Mark says, use 'ditto'.



First: sorry Mike for the wrong quote, I was talking about the "ditto" correction....I wasn't aware that in English you don't use "idem" to say: the same things said above, as we do!

Wuith my previous post I was asking you to explain why I was wrong, but Tegs came and rescue me from a _qui pro quod_ !! (how do you say qui pro quod in English??)

Anyway, Mike, your corrections/suggestions are always very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very welcome!



√2 said:


> Eeeehhhhh?!  Gig, solo queste farebbero 30 ore la settimana



Già, ma noi facevamo il recupero al pomeriggio.....non era obbligatorio ma era caldamente consigliato per i ciucci....però aspetta che non mi tornano i conti.....torno tra un po' con idee più chiare, probabilmente il terrore del latino e del greco mi ha fatto distorcere la percezione del tempo!!! 

E infatti è così: ho ricordi foschi, dolorosi e faticosi dei miei studi!!!

Qui c'è una bellissima tabella (1952/2010) che riassume tutte le ore settimanali. Sorry per l'errore!!!

P.S. i rientri facoltativi settimanali erano 3 per 2 ore al pomeriggio....non cambia molto la faccenda!


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## tsoapm

giginho said:


> Anyway, *Mark*, your corrections/suggestions are always very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very welcome!


Meno male!


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## giginho

Mark Dobson said:


> Meno male!



Devo smettere di fare 3 cose insieme se no non la finisco più di dire Sorry a tutti!

Sorry Mark per averti anche storpiato il nome!!!!

Sorry Tegs per non aver usato il pulsante edit!

Vi prego, abbiate pazienza con il vostro Giginho.....non è un cattivo ragazzo, è la vita che si accanisce contro di lui!!!! 

P.S. ho scritto in italiano così evito altre cappelle!


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