# μανέστρα



## modus.irrealis

Hi,

I have a friend from Greece and lots of time we'll be talking and I'll use a word I've used all my life as a Greek word and he won't recognize it (for some reason, these are almost always food related). Worse, though, he seems to have doubts when I tell him they're not English words that people around here have Hellenized (like, say, τρόκι from _truck_) but are actual Greek words. And that always makes me go consult a dictionary where so far I've always found the word, although they're often marked as λαϊκότροπος or παρωχημένος, and now I've begun wondering just how familiar these words are.

Anyway, to get to my question, and so I don't get in trouble with the moderator, I'll limit myself to just one word, do people recognize the word μανέστρα (which is this)? And what's the usual word for it? κριθαράκι?


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## ireney

Oh c'mon! We are not that strict are we? 

Anyway, μανέστρα is perfectly familiar to me but I guess κριθαράκι is more widely used. 
A google search gives quite a few results for μανέστρα by the way.


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## Vagabond

Κριθαράκι and μανέστρα are two different foods though, no?

PS: No! Scratch that! I found this: "Το κριθαράκι στην κατσαρόλα το λέμε "μανέστρα" ενώ του φούρνου "γιουβέτσι"." here. So apparently, if you cook κριθαράκι in the cooking pot like a soup, it is μανέστρα, but if you cook it in the oven (with meat), it is γιουβέτσι. That would make μανέστρα a a recipe with κριθαράκι. Amazing. All these years, I had no clue - I just ate both, called them their respective names, and was under the impression they are two different pasta things.

In any case, μανέστρα is very much real in Greece and not uncommon at all.


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## anthodocheio

Vagabond said:


> PS: No! Scratch that! I found this: "Το κριθαράκι στην κατσαρόλα το λέμε "μανέστρα" ενώ του φούρνου "γιουβέτσι"." here. So apparently, if you cook κριθαράκι in the cooking pot like a soup, it is μανέστρα, but if you cook it in the oven (with meat), it is γιουβέτσι. That would make μανέστρα a a recipe with κριθαράκι. Amazing. All these years, I had no clue - I just ate both, called them their respective names, and was under the impression they are two different pasta things.
> 
> In any case, μανέστρα is very much real in Greece and not uncommon at all.


 
Wow! That's very interesting! I didn't know either! Thanks Vagabond!
I thought that there were two names of the same thing and γιουβέτσι for sure a recipe with κριθαράκι..

Always learning...


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## modus.irrealis

Thank you all.



ireney said:


> Oh c'mon! We are not that strict are we?


Of course not. Too bad there's no I'm-scared-to-death smiley available.


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## VISEL

modus.irrealis said:


> Hi,
> 
> In Italian it is called  "pastina" (small pasta). When you cook it , it becames "minestra" ( μανέστρα ) as in greek.
> 
> Saluti.
> 
> I have a friend from Greece and lots of time we'll be talking and I'll use a word I've used all my life as a Greek word and he won't recognize it (for some reason, these are almost always food related). Worse, though, he seems to have doubts when I tell him they're not English words that people around here have Hellenized (like, say, τρόκι from _truck_) but are actual Greek words. And that always makes me go consult a dictionary where so far I've always found the word, although they're often marked as λαϊκότροπος or παρωχημένος, and now I've begun wondering just how familiar these words are.
> 
> Anyway, to get to my question, and so I don't get in trouble with the moderator, I'll limit myself to just one word, do people recognize the word μανέστρα (which is this)? And what's the usual word for it? κριθαράκι?


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## wonderment

How interesting. So then, is μανεστρα Hellenized form of minestra (or the reverse)? i.e. did μανεστρα/minestra originate from Greece or Italy? I've always thought of minestrone as a quintessentially Italian soup (or is that something totally different?). 

It's dinner time and this thread is making me hungry...


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## VISEL

Hi, In europe the words goes and comes through/across the nations!
Every latin/greek languages (port,span,ital, franc,greek,engl) have intersections and interjection. A latin word goes in france and come back as french term, and so on.
eg: spanish/italian words intersection is around 60%
      french/italian words intersection is around 40%
      greek/italian words intersection is around 20%
Change the pronunciation or accent, but the base word is the same: sometime the difference is very small:
eg : greek Bukali  is Boccale in italian
or greek melizana is melanzana in italian  and so on.

Minestra ->ministrare -> (lat) minister (slave) -> mynestr (gallico) " the person that serves the food"

"se you later alligators"..

please read this:
http://www.englishgratis.com/1/risorse/sfiziosi/sfiz-4-storiadiparole1.htm
and
http://www.englishgratis.com/1/risorse/sfiziosi/sfiz-4-storiadiparole2.htm

(in italian)

bye


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## wonderment

The transfer of language across borders is nice, transfer of food, even nicer! 

VISEL, dictionary.com gives much the same etymology for minestra and explains thus: a kind of soup, literally, "something served."

I'm not persuaded because if that were the case, anything could be called minestra. I'm wondering if μανεστρα/minestra was originally servant or peasant food. Any food historian out there?

See you later, alligator...
In awhile, crocodile.
(And there's also "Not too soon, baboon" but that's not very nice.)


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## VISEL

OK , in general in Italy misestra is "something served, vegetables based"

In Detail:
Minestrone is a vegetables soup. (big minestra)
Minestrina  is a filtered vegetables soup, served to kids, siks etc  (small minestra)

I don't know the italian food  history, I'm only a "gourmet" ... 

Eat italian! the live is short!  

Ave wonderment  , Visel te saluta.


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## wonderment

Ah, so! I didn't know that. Thanks for the details, Visel. And thanks also for all the helpful links in the "Greek Resources Suggestions" (the FSI Greek course is exactly what I was looking for).

Life is short. Eat desserts first. (la vita piu dolce) 

Tanti saluti!


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## Vagabond

Better late than never, and look what I fished out of the most obvious source - a dictionary:

*μανέστρα* η [manéstra] O25α *:* (λαϊκότρ.) είδος ζυμαρικού· κριθαράκι. ΦP _χάλασε η _~_,_ ματαιώθηκε το σχέδιο. [βεν. manestra] 

Roughly, it gives the definition (we pretty much covered that above); a colloquial expression (χάλασε η μανέστρα = the manestra went bad = the plan went down, basically); and it gives as the origin of the word the Venetian word "manestra". Whether that's exactly the same as Italian minestra or not, I honestly have no clue, but apparently it came into Greek through the Venetian dialect (or language? I've heard that opinions vary).



> Eat italian! the live is short!


Cheers to that - Italian food is awesome.


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## VISEL

In  Italy, as in Greece i think , the dialects are real languages.
In Italy there are 15(12 other source) main dialects:
2 in sicily, 2 in sardinia,1 in calabria, 3 in Basilicata/Puglia, and so on.
The Italians understand some of them:
most popular are Napolitan, Sardinian, Barese, Milanese, venetian, Bergamasco,Sicilian,Genovese.
In Italy are 7200 city and village (comuni), so, there are 7200 different languages.

Other languages:
Occitan, french,LaDino, catalan,castellano,German,old balcanic(serbo-croato,albanian) and Greek dialects are spoken in some parts of Calabria and Puglia.

oh my god. This is a new Babilon! 


fonte: 
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingue_parlate_in_Italia
http://www.justlanded.com/italiano/italy/tools/just_landed_guide/language/language


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