# Italian gustare Spanish/Portuguese gustar/gostar



## killerbee256

I spent some time in Italy last summer, after two weeks I learned to communicate with Italians using a mix Spanish,Portuguese with Italian conjugation and plurals. One major stumbling block was the verb _gustare, _as it has a more conservative meaning in Italian retaining the Latin meaning of "taste." Thus when I said "Eu gosto..." to mean "I like..." people in Italy looked at me funny. The odd thing is when I research it I'm told in Barron's 501 verbs and wikionary the Italian has two meanings, one "to taste" the other "to enjoy," likewise when I look it up in Portuguese/Spanish find I  gosto/gusto can mean to taste.(in Spanish it's noted as being archaic) Also when I translate " I taste" in google translator I get "Eu gosto". Yet in practical terms I never once remember hearing a Brazilian use the word with meaning "taste" nor an "Italian" with meaning of "like." To note my knowledge of Portuguese is asymmetric, I have large gaps in my vocabulary.


----------



## CapnPrep

So… do you have a question? It seems like you already know that all of these verbs go back to the same Latin word, but that they now have distinct primary meanings in the modern languages. I think you can trust what you've seen in dictionaries and other resources. They usually have examples sentences to illustrate the secondary meanings. Run those across some Brazilian and Italian speakers next time you get the chance.


----------



## killerbee256

While I was in Italy I did ask people who also spoke English(I was there for an academic thing). They told me that it only meant "taste," so I suppose my question is why does the reference material says it has both meaning while actual speakers say differently. Is the meaning "to enjoy" archaic or regional? If regional where? I know there are some Italian, Portuguese and Brazilian posters around here, Hence why posted my rather rambling statement here in the first place.


----------



## relativamente

The verb used in Latin for like is placeo.From this verb come the French plaire italian piacere and Spanish placer.In Spanish they say me place le plugo and so and is still correct Spanish but here in Spain the past plugo I think has  become oldfashioned.For some reason I do not know has become more frequent the use of gustar.But in Catalan is used agradar.


----------



## fdb

relativamente said:


> The verb used in Latin for like is placeo



Latin placeo does not mean “I like”, it means “I am pleasing”. To say “I like X” you need to say “me placet X”, exactly as in French, Italian etc.

(Presumably this is what you are trying to say, but you will concede, I trust, that this is not what you actually said).


----------



## jmx

For what it's worth, if the use of "gustar" to mean 'to taste' in Spanish is archaic, then I'm archaic, because I use it that way.


----------



## francisgranada

In Italian, even when speaking about foods, the verb _piacere _is preferred. For example:
Questa pizza mi piace (Esta pizza me gusta).

So I think that in Italian in general the verb _piacere _is preferred, while in Spanish the verb _gustar_, even if both verbs are present in both languages.


----------



## apmoy70

If I may add, in Greek and in the jargon of Thessalonika's university students, *«γούστα»* ['ɣusta] (neut. pl. nom.) -according to prof. Babiniotis from Venetian _gusto_- is the colloquial name for endless nightly recreational indulgences 
*«Πάμε γιά γούστα»* ['pame ʝa 'ɣusta] means "let's go for debaucherous fun"


----------



## killerbee256

jmx said:


> For what it's worth, if the use of "gustar" to mean 'to taste' in Spanish is archaic, then I'm archaic, because I use it that way.


I wouldn't be surprised if the Catalan usage influences castilian spoken in Catalonia. In this case reinforcing the older usage.


----------



## Angelo di fuoco

A rare example of gustare in Italian:



> Messere Prizivalle il Gallese
> che gustò il sangue del Signor Nostro Gesù



--- that tasted the blood of Our Lord Jesus Christ. Please note that it is a direct object, unlike the Portuguese gostar (eu gosto de) or the Spanish gustar, which is an impersonal bivalent (or was it trivalent?, if you count the "dummy" subject) verb, quite like placer, plaire, & piacere (me gusta x, me place x, x me plaît, mi piace x).

From Gabriele D'Annunzio's _Francesca da Rimini_. Written about 1900, but then, D'Annunzio was/is famous for his taste for words with an extravagant or (pseudo-)archaic flavour.

Catalan & Spanish (and Portuguese?) have agradar as an impersonal verb, Italian has the (rarely used) aggradare, also impersonal, whereas French has the transitive agréer (which has a somewhat different meaning, more in the sense of "receiving benevolently", nowadays almost exclusively a formula in letter closings). Italian has also gradire ("receive benevolently" or "enjoy").

My dictionary says Spanish has gustar as impersonal (me gusta), direct (gustar algo) & indirect (gustar de) verb, with different meanings-


----------



## merquiades

killerbee256 said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the Catalan usage influences castilian spoken in Catalonia. In this case reinforcing the older usage.



The Standard Catalan verb for 'to like' is _agradar_.  This verb is also a perfect synonym of _gustar_ in Castilian Spanish, but _agradar_ is not so widely used outside bilingual areas in Spain and is a bit more formal.  However, because of Catalan influence, it is heard more frequently in Catalonian Spanish.

In Spanish the noun _el gusto_ is 'taste', but the verb _gustar_ means 'to like'.  This correspond to _il gusto (n)/piacere(v)_ in Italian.  In French, _le goût (n)_and _goûter (v)_ only mean 'to taste' (comparable to Italian_ il gusto_ and _gustare_).  Where in French/Italian it is possible say _goûte-le_, _gustalo_ (taste it)  in Spanish it would be a completely different verb _pruébalo_ from _probar_ or _catar, disfrutar_ in some contexts, but not _gustar_.  Other than that _gustar_ in Spanish requires a dative structure.  It's actually better to think of it as "_gustarle a uno_" (to be liking to someone), unlike the portuguese which is conjugated straightforwardly as _eu gosto_.  

So actually the Iberian-romance languages overlap in certain aspects, retaining nouns from _gustar_ meaning "taste" but skewing the meaning of the verb to "like" with _agradar_ as a synonym in some respect, whereas the Gallo-romance languages have relegated both the noun and verb deriving from _gustare_ in the meaning of taste, and using other verbs to mean "like", piacere/plaire etc. often with a similar dative structure as in Spanish.  The verb _placer_ has fallen out of use in Spanish.

Lots of partial fake friends

Angelo:  we were thinking and writing about the same thing at the same time.


----------



## Angelo di fuoco

Merquiades, I'd like to link the entry about gustar from the multilingual (German-centered) dictionary I use to consult: http://de.pons.eu/dict/search/results/?q=gustar&l=dees&in=&lf=es
It surprised me quite a lot and contradicts in part what you write.

Another link which seems to corroborate that: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=gustar.


----------



## merquiades

Angelo di fuoco said:


> Merquiades, I'd like to link the entry about gustar from the multilingual (German-centered) dictionary I use to consult: http://de.pons.eu/dict/search/results/?q=gustar&l=dees&in=&lf=es
> It surprised me quite a lot and contradicts in part what you write.
> 
> Another link which seems to corroborate that: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=gustar.



If you mean the "el chef gusta el asado" for "el chef prueba el asado", it might in theory exist (it actually surprises me) but I've never seen the verb used this way, but if they put it there I don't doubt the usage.  The RAE gives no example and I've been looking for examples on google but I have yet to find one.

The "gusta de ir a la ópera" on the parallel of Portuguese exists in the written language.


----------



## Angelo di fuoco

Neither I have seen this construction, but then, my knowledge of the niceties of Spanish is more theoretical than practical.


----------



## Ben Jamin

merquiades said:


> If you mean the "el chef gusta el asado" for "el chef prueba el asado", it might in theory exist (it actually surprises me) but I've never seen the verb used this way, but if they put it there I don't doubt the usage.  The RAE gives no example and I've been looking for examples on google but I have yet to find one.
> 
> The "gusta de ir a la ópera" on the parallel of Portuguese exists in the written language.


Don't trust multilingual dictionaries!


----------



## Angelo di fuoco

In this case I do trust it (to a certain degree) because it's the on-line version of the dictionaries of a rather famous German publisher (actually, one of the two leading ones, the other being Langenscheidt) specialised in dictionaries and other things related to language learning. It's no true "multilingual dictionary" because they only show you one language pair at once, but you can switch between many different language pairs. Since it's a German publisher, you have couples with German and any other language they offer, some couples with English and then there are also some couples like Polish-Russian or Italian-Slovenian. It's the virtiual version of their printed dictionaries (not the whole & complete one), but it's rather practical for my purposes, and it's in some aspects better than their printed versions. It include the pronunciation both in IPA (instead of some systems of their invention, meant to save space, a problem you don't have in the on-line version) and audio files (which, due to obvious reasons, they also cannot include in their printed versions).
However, the best thing in this case is to ask the Real Academia.


----------



## Sempervirens

Ciao a tutti! Effettivamente non è facile spiegare la differenza di verbi apparentemente simili senza una o più frasi di contesto.
Mah, sperando di fare cosa gradita, vi ho cercato questi collegamenti. 

_gustare _http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/gustare/ http://www.etimo.it/?term=gustare


_piacere_ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/piacere/ http://www.etimo.it/?term=piacere


_garbare_ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/garbare/ http://www.etimo.it/?term=garbare


_assaggiare _ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/assaggiare/ http://www.etimo.it/?term=assaggiare


_gradire_ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/gradire/ http://www.etimo.it/?term=gradire


_assaporare _ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/assaporare/


_degustare _ http://www.treccani.it/vocabolario/tag/degustare/

S.V


----------



## merquiades

Molte grazie, Sempervivens!


----------



## jmx

merquiades said:


> If you mean the "el chef gusta el asado" for "el chef prueba el asado", it might in theory exist (it actually surprises me) but I've never seen the verb used this way, ...


Yes, it exists. That's what I was trying to say in my previous post.


----------



## Ben Jamin

Angelo di fuoco said:


> In this case I do trust it (to a certain degree) because it's the on-line version of the dictionaries of a rather famous German publisher (actually, one of the two leading ones, the other being Langenscheidt) specialised in dictionaries and other things related to language learning. It's no true "multilingual dictionary" because they only show you one language pair at once, but you can switch between many different language pairs. Since it's a German publisher, you have couples with German and any other language they offer, some couples with English and then there are also some couples like Polish-Russian or Italian-Slovenian. It's the virtiual version of their printed dictionaries (not the whole & complete one), but it's rather practical for my purposes, and it's in some aspects better than their printed versions. It include the pronunciation both in IPA (instead of some systems of their invention, meant to save space, a problem you don't have in the on-line version) and audio files (which, due to obvious reasons, they also cannot include in their printed versions).
> However, the best thing in this case is to ask the Real Academia.


From my experience I've learned that multilingual dictionaries have more errors than unilingual og bilingual dictionaries. To ensure the quality of translation the persons involved must either master many languages themselves or have organized a complicated net of bilingual experts, which is often not done, or done in a non-satisfactory manner. The best example is Google translator. If used as a dictionary you will always get many wrong equivalents of a word if you try many enough languages.


----------



## rbrunner

Ben Jamin said:


> The best example is Google translator. If used as a dictionary you will always get many wrong equivalents of a word if you try many enough languages.



Yes, because no persons at all are involved - it's all automatic, done by harvesting corresponding texts in 2 or more languages


----------



## Nino83

In this case Italian and French are closer. 
If one wants to say _I like doing something_, one can use _mi piace/me plaît, amo/j'aime, adoro/j'adore_. 
_Gustare_ means _taste_ or _enjoy, appreciate some food_ in every day speech. 

Ciao


----------



## Quiviscumque

merquiades said:


> If you mean the "el chef gusta el asado" for "el chef prueba el asado", it might in theory exist (it actually surprises me) but I've never seen the verb used this way, but if they put it there I don't doubt the usage.  The RAE gives no example and I've been looking for examples on google but I have yet to find one.
> 
> The "gusta de ir a la ópera" on the parallel of Portuguese exists in the written language.



"Gustar [de]" is the usual word in medieval and classical Spanish for "to taste". If you are looking for examples, may I refer you to RAE's CORDE/CREA:
http://corpus.rae.es/cordenet.html

A random example from ~1600:
_Juan, abad en la Tebaida Superior, dentro de una cueva, al pie de un monte, estuvo tres años en pie sin asentarse, por orar no menos de lo que deseava, pues echado, más presto le venciera el sueño. __No dava lugar a que se durmiesse el trabajo de estar en pie, el cual se aliviava con el gusto de la oración. __Al milagro de estar en pie sin dormir se añadió otro: __que en los tres años no* gustó* manjar alguno._

However, respected jmx notwithstanding, I would not say that this is present usage, except in some clichés like "gustar las mieles del éxito".


----------



## Wynn Mathieson

merquiades wrote:

1) >> The Standard Catalan verb for 'to like' is agradar <<

Oh, no, it isn't! _Agradar_ means "to please".

2) >> the verb gustar means 'to like' <<

Once again, no. _Gustar_ means "to please".

3) >> the Gallo-romance languages [use] other verbs to mean "like", piacere/plaire etc. <<

Likewise, both _piacere_ and _plaire_ mean "to please", not "to like".

If that perhaps comes across as pedantic, _mi dispiace_ -- but it's a pretty fundamental distinction in my view, _y a mi me gusta la precisión_...


----------



## merquiades

Wynn Mathieson said:


> merquiades wrote:
> 
> 1) >> The Standard Catalan verb for 'to like' is agradar <<
> 
> Oh, no, it isn't! _Agradar_ means "to please".
> 
> 2) >> the verb gustar means 'to like' <<
> 
> Once again, no. _Gustar_ means "to please".
> 
> 3) >> the Gallo-romance languages [use] other verbs to mean "like", piacere/plaire etc. <<
> 
> Likewise, both _piacere_ and _plaire_ mean "to please", not "to like".
> 
> If that perhaps comes across as pedantic, _mi dispiace_ -- but it's a pretty fundamental distinction in my view, _y a mi me gusta la precisión_...



Sorry, I definitely do not agree.  These verbs mean "_to like_" and are used in that sense.  When someone says "_me gustan los perros, m'agraden els gossos, mi piaccioni i cani_" the meaning the speaker wishes to transmit is not "_dogs please me_", it's "_I like dogs_".   "To please" would need to be translated using different verbs such as "_dar gusto/ faire plaisir_", "_complacer, satisfacer, satisfaire_.. etc."   _Please _and _plaire/piacere_ are fake friends of a similar origin.


----------



## Nino83

I agree with merquiades. 
_Piacere/plaisir_ nowdays are impersonal verbs and are always utilized with dative construction. The meaning is _like_. 

_Mi piace quell'auto = that car is pleasant to me = I like that car_. 

_To please someone = far piacere a qualcuno_ 

P.S. 
The subject in the dative case, the object in the nominative case. The verb agrees in gender and number with the grammatical subject (i.e. with the object in the nominative case).


----------



## Ben Jamin

Nino83 said:


> I agree with merquiades.
> _Piacere/plaisir_ nowdays are impersonal verbs and are always utilized with dative construction. The meaning is _like_.
> 
> _Mi piace quell'auto = that car is pleasant to me = I like that car_.
> 
> _To please someone = far piacere a qualcuno_
> 
> P.S.
> The subject in the dative case, the object in the nominative case. The verb agrees in gender and number with the grammatical subject (i.e. with the object in the nominative case).


If you mean "the logical object" and "the logical subject" then I agree with you. If you mean "grammatical", not "logical" then it is the other way round: the object is in nominative, and the subject in dative.


----------



## Nino83

Yes, I meant "logical" vs. "grammatical". I thought that it was implied.


----------



## Nino83

Also in Italian there are synonyms  
Yes, _macchina_ is more generic, _vettura_ and _auto(mobile)_ are more specific.


----------



## caelum

merquiades said:


> Wynn Mathieson said:
> 
> 
> 
> merquiades wrote:
> 
> 
> 1) >> The Standard Catalan verb for 'to like' is agradar <<
> 
> 
> Oh, no, it isn't! Agradar means "to please".
> 
> 
> 2) >> the verb gustar means 'to like' <<
> 
> 
> Once again, no. Gustar means "to please".
> 
> 
> 3) >> the Gallo-romance languages [use] other verbs to mean "like", piacere/plaire etc. <<
> 
> 
> Likewise, both piacere and plaire mean "to please", not "to like".
> 
> 
> If that perhaps comes across as pedantic, mi dispiace -- but it's a pretty fundamental distinction in my view, y a mi me gusta la precisión...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry, I definitely do not agree. These verbs mean "to like" and are used in that sense. When someone says "me gustan los perros, m'agraden els gossos, mi piaccioni i cani" the meaning the speaker wishes to transmit is not "dogs please me", it's "I like dogs". "To please" would need to be translated using different verbs such as "dar gusto/ faire plaisir", "complacer, satisfacer, satisfaire.. etc." Please and plaire/piacere are fake friends of a similar origin.
Click to expand...



Estoy de acuerdo. It's a fundamental mistake to try to translate word for word and expect the phrase to keep the original meaning. Teaching people that _me gustan los libro_ means "books are pleasing to me/books please me (_los libros me satisfacen/me dan placer)_ does not teach them how gustar is actually used.


----------

