# Państwo in a letter - is it rude?



## Nanon

Hello All,

Some time ago I heard a comment from a Polish speaker who criticized the writing style of her boss. She said that her boss uses to write _państwo _in letters, which she found extremely rude. Is it really not polite or simply too impersonal to be used in commercial or official letters? Are you expected to write _Szanowny Panie  X. / Szanowna Pani Y._ at all times, or am I right to suppose that _państwo_,as a sort of equivalent of _"Dear Sir or Madam"_, shows that you don't know people well enough or that you don't make efforts to know them better?


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## majlo

I don't find it rude AT ALL! I think you friend must've said that in jest. I use it on a regular basis.


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## Thomas1

I concur with Majlo. I'd add that it is polite, respectful and in good style to begin your letter with 'Szanowni Państwo' if you write to many receivers whom you either don't know or are on formal terms with.


> am I right to suppose that _państwo_,as a sort of equivalent of _"Dear  Sir or Madam"_, shows that you don't know people well enough or that  you don't make efforts to know them better?


I think that your supposition may be correct, especially its first part, but it's not a fast and hard rule. 
To give you a counter-example: my university professors use those in e-mails to us; although, some of them know us quite well.
As to the efforts, I'd incline to answer in the negative, Nanon.


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## Ben Jamin

Nanon said:


> Hello All,
> 
> Some time ago I heard a comment from a Polish speaker who criticized the writing style of her boss. She said that her boss uses to write _państwo _in letters, which she found extremely rude. Is it really not polite or simply too impersonal to be used in commercial or official letters? Are you expected to write _Szanowny Panie X. / Szanowna Pani Y._ at all times, or am I right to suppose that _państwo_,as a sort of equivalent of _"Dear Sir or Madam"_, shows that you don't know people well enough or that you don't make efforts to know them better?


 This Polish speaker must be extremely wrong informed. Be careful with other advice from this person.


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## Nanon

Dear All, or should I say "Szanowni Państwo"  (but so far only men replied ),

In defence of that lady, I should say that probably, as a Pole living in Poland all her life, she was properly informed but she might have not found how to express herself in a foreign language when criticizing the habit of her boss to use "Państwo" in business letters, so she did not properly inform me. Although the little Polish I know is buried under a thick layer of rust , I was surprised by her observation (how could that be rude?) but she gave me an ever more confusing answer. This is why I preferred to ask. Thanks!

PS - Don't worry, if I plan to reactivate my Polish at some stage, I know that I should find proper teachers here!


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## Ben Jamin

Nanon said:


> Dear All, or should I say "Szanowni Państwo"  (but so far only men replied ),
> 
> In defence of that lady, I should say that probably, as a Pole living in Poland all her life, she was properly informed but she might have not found how to express herself in a foreign language when criticizing the habit of her boss to use "Państwo" in business letters, so she did not properly inform me. Although the little Polish I know is buried under a thick layer of rust , I was surprised by her observation (how could that be rude?) but she gave me an ever more confusing answer. This is why I preferred to ask. Thanks!
> 
> PS - Don't worry, if I plan to reactivate my Polish at some stage, I know that I should find proper teachers here!



It would be interesting to see the incriminated text and hear her proposal how to improve it. May be she was not criticizing the use of "Państwo", but how it was used. This word, closely corresponding to French "Messieurs" or Spanish "Ustedes" has been the correct for of addressing business connections in Polish in a long time. I have not heard that this should have got out of use, and the very idea that it should be impolite is bizarre to me.


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## Nanon

BenJamin, I cannot access the "incriminated" text(s), but what I suppose is that you are right. She must have meant to criticize the use of words that sounded too impersonal to her ears. As opposed to her boss, she must be a person who prefers to write the name of her contacts in correspondence, in order to create the impression that all messages she writes are personal, not standard, letters. Obviously I am just supposing things, but it appears that her criticism is not justified. Thanks!


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## Ben Jamin

Nanon said:


> BenJamin, I cannot access the "incriminated" text(s), but what I suppose is that you are right. She must have meant to criticize the use of words that sounded too impersonal to her ears. As opposed to her boss, she must be a person who prefers to write the name of her contacts in correspondence, in order to create the impression that all messages she writes are personal, not standard, letters. Obviously I am just supposing things, but it appears that her criticism is not justified. Thanks!


 I think that it is quite far from impersonal to rude, so the criticism was exaggerated. I, for my part, hate marketing letters styled to my full name, which I know has been retrieved from a database, and the letter sendt in thousands of copies. The impersonal way of addressing is then much better. If you are not at "thou" terms with somebody in Poland, than you have to use the formal address : pan, pani for individuals and państwo for organizations, couples and groups. The same words are also used instead of personal pronouns of the addressed persons. One can use the form "Wy/was" writing to organizations, couples and groups, but you must be on close terms with them, otherwise you are impolite.


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## michkucz

"Państwo" isn't rude. You can write this to your friend addressing him with his wife. Mais si tu veux ecrire un lettre official il est mieux d'utiliser "Szanowny Panie" pour un homme, et "Szanowna Pani" pour une femme". On ecrit "Sz. P" a la  majorite de lettres. "Sz.P" est le abbreviation pour 'Szanowni Państwo"


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