# Welsh: Vowel fusion at word boundaries



## n8abx9

Welsh has vowels that join together when two vowels come together:

Dw i'n mynd i weld y ci. => Dw i'n mynd *i'w* weld o.
Galla i fwytho'r ci. => Galla *i'i* fwytho fo. (Interestingly this time not "i'w" even though it's the same vowels "i + ei" that meet but "i" has a different meaning.)
Dw i'n gallu mwytho'r gath. => Dw i'n gall*u'i* mwytho hi. (the "e" dropping out, does this always happen after an end vowel?)

I am not sure how many such contractions exist. Can anybody point me to a resource that lists them?

Thank you!


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## Welsh_Sion

This needs more research, but I can tell you that sentence two is wrong. This should read,

*Galla i ei fwytho fo**

There is no contraction to *<i'i>* in this construction.

I've seen a growing use of contraction in *<wedi'i>* but I see this as being ugly (yes, that's a non-linguistic term, I know) and I always write *<wedi ei/eu>*.

I know of at least another Cymraeg native here - @Tegs - and between us, and with your help, too, I'm sure we can work something out! 

(*Note - _*Da iawn ti am ddefnyddio tafodiaith y Gogledd! Does dim llawer ohonyn ni o gwmpas!*_)


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## n8abx9

Diolch yn fawr iawn!

Would that be the same for 

"Gawn ni'i fwyta fo?" (bwyd, not the dog)

rather being

"Gawn ni ei fwyta fo?"

?

(Mae gen i ffrind sy'n byw ym Mhwllheli.  )


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## Welsh_Sion

Yes, I wouldn't write <ni'i> under any circumstances. I might _pronounce_ it that way, [ni: i], but <ni ei> would be correct written.

I don't see why not eating the dog ... Never heard of a _ci poeth_? 

(My accent is rural Arfon, so I can relate to Pwllheli _yn dda iawn ..._)

I saw this in your other post requesting drilling: _Gawn ni'i fwyta fe?_

I can't see this being correct somehow - maybe it's again a reflection of (Hwntw/De)speak ... i.e. Southern pronunciation. (It goes without saying '_fe_' is never part of my active vocab.)


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## Welsh_Sion

D. Geraint Lewis - Geiriadur Cymraeg Gomer (trans. W_S): 

1 _ 'i_ is used after vowels *except *in the case of the preposition _'i'_ and a noun or pronoun ending in _-i, -u, -y_ nor after _neu, mai_ or _wedi. _(_'w_ is used after the prep._ i_): _a'i dad, Fe'i welais e_.

2 genitive _'u_ is used after vowels or diphthongs: _o'u cartref, gyda'u plant._

3 where _'u_ is the object, then it follows '_a_' (relative pronoun), '_na_' (ibid.) and after particles used in front of verbs: _Pwy a'u gwelodd? Dyma'r llyfrau y'u prynais._


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## n8abx9

That's great! Trying to sort some examples ...


*1. Dropping of a vowel (plus apostrophy)*

[after prepositions]
â + ei/eu = *â'i*  "Allet ti siarad *â'i* athrawes?" / "siarad *â'u* meddyg" / "sy'n gysylltiedig *â'i* gilydd" 
_o + ei/eu  o'u cartref  
gyda + ei/eu  gyda'u plant _

[after pronouns]
i (pronoun) + eich = *i'ch  *  "Alla *i'ch* helpu chi?"  *
_fo + ei   Fo'i welais o **_

[after relativ pronouns or similar]
_a/na + ei/eu  *a'i* dad  /  Pwy *a'u* gwelodd?  
y + ei/eu    Dyma'r llyfrau *y'u* prynais.  / Dyma llyfr *y'i* brynais. (??)
_

*2. Turning into something else (plus apostrophy) *

i (preposition) + ei/eu = w   "Dw i'n mynd *i'w* weld o." / Rwyt ti'n dal *i'w* caru nhw.


___

* I wonder what about "*â + ein*"? Allwn ni'n siarad *â ein* athrawes ni? ... *â'in* athrawes ni? ... *â'n* athrawes ni??
And "*â + eich*"? Allwch chi'n siarad *â eich* athrawes chi? ... *â'ich* athrawes chi? ... *â'ch* athrawes chi??

What about "*i (preposition) + ein/eich*"? Dw i'n mynd* i'ch* helpu chi? Dw i'n mynd i *ein *gyrru ni?

** What about "*fo + eu*"? _*Fo'u* gwelais nhw ??_


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## Welsh_Sion

1 [after prepositions]
â + ei/eu = *â'i*  "Allet ti siarad *â'i* athrawes?" / "siarad *â'u* meddyg" / "sy'n gysylltiedig *â'i* gilydd"
_o + ei/eu  o'u cartref
gyda + ei/eu  gyda'u plant

Correct_

Note: 
Allet ti siarad *â'i* athrawes (o)?
Can you speak to/with his (female) teacher?

Allet ti siarad *â'i* *h*athrawes (hi)?
Can you speak to/with *her* (female) teacher?

Allet ti siarad *â'u* *h*athrawes (nhw)?
Can you speak to/with *their* (female) teacher?

2  [after pronouns]
i (pronoun) + eich = *i'ch *
"Alla *i'ch* helpu chi?" *

_Correct_

Note:
I wonder what about "*â + ein*"?
Allwn ni'n siarad *â ein* athrawes ni? ... *â'in* athrawes ni? ... *â'n* athrawes ni??
Allwn ni siarad *â'n* *h*athrawes (ni)?

And "*â + eich*"?
Allwch chi'n siarad *â eich* athrawes chi? ... *â'ich* athrawes chi? 
Allwch chi siarad *â'ch* athrawes chi?

**
_fo + ei 
Fo'i welais o
Ef/Fo a welais _(Abnormal sentence: 'It was _him_ I saw')

3 [after relative pronouns or similar]
_a/na + ei/eu  *a'i* dad / Pwy *a'u* gwelodd?
y + ei/eu  Dyma'r llyfrau *y'u* prynais. / Dyma llyfr *y'i* brynais. (??)

Correct_

i (preposition) + ei/eu = w 
"Dw i'n mynd *i'w* *w*eld o."

_Correct_

Also: Dw i'n mynd* i'w g*weld hi.
Also: Dw i'n mynd *i'w* *g*weld nhw.

Rwyt ti'n dal *i'w* *c*aru (nhw).

_Correct_

Also: Rwyt ti'n dal *i'w ch*aru (hi).
Also: Rwyt ti'n dal *i'w* *g*aru (o).


** What about "*fo + eu*"? _*Fo'u* gwelais nhw ??

Unclear_

Fo - He
'u - Them/Their
gwelais - I saw
nhw - Them

_You're really making me work, aren't you? _


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## Welsh_Sion

You probably also know that prior to 1928, _*gyda'u gilydd* _was considered acceptable. 

This is no longer true: always, *gyda'i gilydd*.


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## n8abx9

No, I had no idea. Thank you for bringing that up, that will spare me hours of confusion when I come across it. 

So glad I found someone to ask! I think I need a break now and reread the examples. But I will get back to this!


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## Welsh_Sion

Pleased to make the acquaintance of someone so serious about learning my mother tongue. You'll have to tell me the story behind it at some stage.


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