# حي شعبي



## emanko

السلام عليكم
ابحث عن ترجمة لعبارة "حي شعبي"، و هي عبارة مستخدمة في مصر تعني حي فقير يقطنه مواطنون مستواهم الثقلفي و الاجتماعي و التعليمي غالبا يكون أقل من المتوسط. 
لكن كلمة شعب هي نسبة من "شعب" و لذلك فالعبارة مخففة ولا تعتبر فظة او مهينة.

وجدت في الانجليزية كلمة 
slum
و التي تعني حي فقير و مزدحم في المدينة
لكن لا أدري إن كانت كلمة مهينة أو غير محببة؟ هل يمكن استعمالها كترجمة لحي شعبي؟

شكرا


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## Mahaodeh

لا، الكلمة التي ذكرتها تعنى ما تسمّونها في مصر "العشوائيات" - أي الأحياء المتهالكة التي (غالبا ما) لم تُبنَ بطريقة نظامية بل أن كل عائلة جمعت ما تستطيع من المواد وركّبت بيتها بنفسها. أي أن كلمة
slum
تُطلق على نوع مُحدد وواضح من الأحياء ولا تطلق على أي حيّ فقير كان

أظن في هذه الحالة أن أفضل ترجمة هي 
working class neighbourhood

على فكرة، تعبير "حيّ شعبي" مستخدم في أكثر من دولة عربية وليس مقصورا على مصر فقط


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## emanko

شكرا لك.
وهل تعبير
Working class neighborhood 
منتشر في الانجليزية؟


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## fdb

A working class neighbourhood is not the same as a slum. This is a totally false translation. I think  حي شعبي is a calque on the French quartier populaire. In English one would indeed say "working-class neighbourhood".


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## elroy

emanko said:


> وهل تعبير
> Working class neighborhood
> منتشر في الانجليزية؟


 Yes, it is.


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## cherine

I also found the term "low-income neighborhood" (used here) I think it can be a good equivalent for حي شعبي.


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## emanko

Thank you, guys.
I appreciate your help.


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## emanko

Hello

Is there a difference in meaning between low-icome neighborhood and working-class neighborhood?


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## apricots

There is but it's academic/technical and not many people would be aware. They can pretty safely be used interchangeably but a working-class neighborhood is technically just one type of low-income neighborhood.


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## emanko

Thank you.


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## elroy

The meaning of each expression is simply the sum of its parts, so it's completely straightforward:

_a neighborhood whose residents are low-income families/individuals
a neighborhood whose residents belong to the working class_


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## dakaplo

elroy said:


> The meaning of each expression is simply the sum of its parts, so it's completely straightforward:
> 
> _a neighborhood whose residents are low-income families/individuals
> a neighborhood whose residents belong to the working class_



Exactly. I think this means that "working-class neighborhood" is a better translation for حي شعبي than "low-income," because شعب refers more to "the people" as a social group than to a particular group of people defined by income level. "Low-income" in English strikes me as slightly too technical of a term, but of course it depends on the context.


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## cherine

Yes, it seems to be the agreed translation. But the way,
I'm pretty sure that حي شعبي is a translation of the French "quartier populaire". The discussion of the term in the En-Fr forum proves it's not a very easy term to translate, though "working-class neighborhood" seems to be the most agreed upon translation. Here's a short thread:
quartier populaire
and a post that shows the difficulty in conveying all nuances from one language/society to another:


cansv said:


> This is a phrase I've struggled to properly translate too. "Le quartiere populaire" has richer nuances in French then a literal "working class area"; it conjures up "la boheme" as well as poor (unemployed) and working class too. I don't think there's a truly adequate English counterpart that takes in all these meanings and doesn't sound awkward.


le quartier populaire


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## dakaplo

Thank you, merci, وشكرا  It's fascinating to see how these phrases move between languages by translation, and how the nuances differ.


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## elroy

This post is interesting too:


Coucoumelle said:


> I agree - It's not just a poor area, it's kind of like the blue collar area.  So not necessarily poor, but not high class.  Not yuppie.  So nice houses, but no "snobs"    Kind of hard to explain.  And a mix, of everything.


 Sounds like it basically means a "middle of the road" neighborhood - not ritzy, but not squalid either.


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## cherine

elroy said:


> This post is interesting too:
> Sounds like it basically means a "middle of the road" neighborhood - not ritzy, but not squalid either.


I liked that post too. But the problem is that in Egypt, some أحياء شعبية are not much better than slums (according to the definition of slum: a thickly populated, run-down, squalid part of a city, inhabited by poor people.).
Some of the residents of those neighborhoods are not blue-collars; there are teachers, (poor) lawyers, government employees...etc., who live in those neighborhoods because it's all the housing they can afford.
As we can all see, the term is really hard to translate, but then again we mostly have 2 options: working-class neighbohood and low-income/poor neighborhood. I would personally chose the translation related to income because it's the bigger factor/reason for living there.


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