# Krzynówek



## Ptak

I was watching the Germany-Poland match, and the Russian commentator said that the name is pronounced in Poland in different ways, depending on the region. Actually, our commentators like inventing and speaknig rubbish very much, so could someone tell me if it's true? 

I, personally, thought that the name was pronounced *Kshee-noo-vek* only. Among his variants, there were "*Krsh*ee-nooh-vek", "Krshee-*noh*-vek" or something...


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## Piotr_WRF

Ptak said:


> I was watching the Germany-Poland match, and the Russian commentator said that the name Krzynówek is pronounced in Poland in different ways, depending on the region.



 I can't speak for all the different regions in Poland but it is my understanding that this name would be pronounced the same in whole Poland.



Ptak said:


> I, personally, thought that the name was pronounced *Kshee-noo-vek* only. Among his variants, there were "*Krsh*ee-nooh-vek", "Krshee-*noh*-vek" or something...



I say it's your first suggestion that is right. "Rz" is normally like "ж" in Russian but in this case it's pronounced more like "ш". "Ó" is definitely always pronounced like a plain "u" ("oo" in English).


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## robin74

Kшы-*ну*-вэк.


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## slavic_one

Кшин*у*вэк

(in Russian after ш always goes и, never ы) 

And yes, after *k* (and *t*...), *rz* instead of *ж* is pronounced like *ш*.


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## Ptak

robin74 said:


> Kшы-*ну*-вэк.


Thanks, robin74. 
That's what I thought.
But actually, I didn't ask what's the pronunciation, I knew it. I was asking if there are another ways to pronounce this name in Poland, as the commentator said, because I had much doubt on it.


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## slavic_one

Name is the name! It should be the same in a whole world !
The one can pronounce it different due to his region, like in Croatia for instance, when somebody pronounce the (sur)name with different stress, but that's wrong.
I think for Polish goes the same, with an exception (if I'm right with that) that Polish stress is (more-or-less) always on the second syllable from behind. So there even shouldn't be stress-different pronounciation.


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## Thomas1

I have only ever heard one pronunciation of _Krzynówek _(the one given by robin74). 
However, there can indeed be some variantions. For instance I expect Silesians and górale could pronounce it differently but this is not strange given the fact that Silesia's and Podhale's dialects distinguish themselves a lot from national Polish (there can also be other regional variations I haven't mentioned).

Tom


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## Muminek

I think there is only one pronunciation. The one given by Robin74 is correct. I have never heard about other ways.


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## robin74

Ptak said:


> I was asking if there are another ways to pronounce this name in Poland, as the commentator said, because I had much doubt on it.


No.
As Thomas1 pointed out, there may indeed be some regional variations, but for the name like this I think these would be mostly due to some slight differences in vowel pronunciation (which depending on the region might be slightly more or less open or pronounced more to the front or back of the mouth), but certainly nothing like "Krsh" (rz is always pronounced as ж or - if it gets voiceless - as ш, r is never pronounced separately), or "nov" - ó always stands for the same sound as u (Cyrillic у), never o.


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## robin74

slavic_one said:


> (in Russian after ш always goes и, never ы)


I am fully aware of this, but "Кшы" is simply a better approximation than "Кши" of how the name is pronounced in Polish. It's simply harder in Polish than "Кши" would be in Russian.


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## slavic_one

robin74 said:


> I am fully aware of this, but "Кшы" is simply a better approximation than "Кши" of how the name is pronounced in Polish. It's simply harder in Polish than "Кши" would be in Russian.



I don't agree my friend, because и after ш is pronounced like an ы which is even harder than Polish "y" so..


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## Ptak

slavic_one said:


> in Russian after ш always goes и, never ы


It doesn't matter in this case and doesn't look like a mistake here (because it's not a Russian word). Ши and шы sound equal anyway. But in this case it kind of let us understand that this _кшы_ should sound hard... and not quite Russian.


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## robin74

slavic_one said:


> I don't agree my friend, because и after ш is pronounced like an ы which is even harder than Polish "y"


I don't want to argue, but from whatever Russian I heard, and I think I heard a lot, no, it's not. Polish "szy" sounds harder to me than Russian "ши". At best, Ukrainian "ши" could correspond to Polish "szy".


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## slavic_one

This is a bit off topic but: *ши* maybe doesn't sound harder than *szy* (I guess you have more experience than I) but sure *мы* sounds harder than *my*. Polish *y* I think is harder than the Czech one, but Russian *ы* is harder than a Polish *y*. (And Turkish *ı* is harder than Russian *ы*  )

But to stay on topic, it's all ok I just wanted to note that small Russian grammer rule, important fot this is what Piotr_WRF said in second reply - *rz* is pronounced like *ż* (sometimes like *sz*) and *ó* sounds same as *u*. And of course the thing you added that the stress is on that *ó*.

Sorry for my off-topics on this thread!


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## JakubikF

I think we have to remember that Cyrillic for Polish language has never been invented so the transcription from Latin to Cyrillic may be different and depends on a system we choose. 

Neither the Russian sound ы nor the Ukrainian и are the equivalent of Polish y-sound. However if we assume a system of transcription which bases on Russian alphabet instead of y we should write ы but the pronunciation still stays Polish. 
Your argument is a little bit pointless because e.g. both English and Polish use Latin alphabet but it does not mean that y in "why" sounds the same as in Polish y in "wyrok".


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## Oletta

I have heard one lady say "Grzynówek"...


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## slavic_one

Oletta said:


> I have heard one lady say "Grzynówek"...



Maybe because *g* is voiced pair of *k*, and as *rz* is pretty hard sound, she changed *k* into *g*. Or maybe it just sounded to you like that.


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## JakubikF

Rz is hard to pronounce after voiceless "k" thus we say "sz" after k, p, t etc. Changing "k" into voiced "g" is absolutely forbidden.


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## slavic_one

I understand that but it was my only reasonable explanation of Grzynówek


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## Thomas1

slavic_one said:


> I understand that but it was my only reasonable explanation of Grzynówek


You may treat it as a very idiosyncratic quirkiness, in reality _no one_ speaks like that and I imagine that many people would take it as at least weird.

Tom


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## Oletta

Hehe, I guess the lady didn't know for sure the real surname, when i corrected her she felt ashamed a little bit. She was a soccer layman.... must have overheard the surname somewhere. Most often simple people who use slangs or dialects transform many surnames into the way they like. 

To be more precise the lady pronounced something similar to "Grzinówek" It often happens in the Upper Silesia, you might find out that your own surname sounds thoroughly different than it really does. So be careful when you travel south Poland ! I guess the Russian commentator might have had some wider knowledge of regional pronunciation differences and that's why he said:





> that the name is pronounced in Poland in different ways, depending on the region.


 I live in the Upper Silesia and I wouldn't be surprised to hear some other people say "Grzinówek" or "Krzinówek" instead of Krzynówek.


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## Oletta

Thomas1 said:


> in reality _no one_ speaks like that and I imagine that many people would take it as at least weird.
> 
> Tom



In the region of Upper Silesia people do speak like that, and no one would be surprised anyone say "Grzynówek" or "Grzinówek" or "Krzinówek". For me it's funny that it sounds weird to you, but surely I realise that for many Poles dialects sound weird.  I am fascinated with Polish dialects and am accustomed with a vast variety of pronunciation differences to the extend that sometimes my Polish is under question .


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## Thomas1

Well, it was weird to me because I expected a bit different change in the ponunciation in Silesian (i.e. the change in vowel pronunciation); and since you wrote you'd heard one lady I thought my supsicion was legitimate. Since now you've given further information I guess it's not that weird, well at least to you , because I am definitely less familiar with Silesian than you are. 

Tom


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