# in abgedroschen Phrasen zu beschwören



## Dupon

“Erst durch europäische Mittel konnte dieser Innenstadt-Bereich revitalisiert und erneuert werden. Und seitdem das passiert ist, ist es auf jeden Fall sehr einladend, dort zu flanieren."

Der angehende Jurist weiß von den großen und kleinen Errungenschaften der EU – doch Tobias von Gostomski ist es leid, *diese immerzu in abgedroschen Phrasen zu beschwören. "*
I am confused on "*beschwören*" here, how to understand "doch Tobias von Gostomski ist es leid, diese immerzu in abgedroschen Phrasen zu beschwören."?
Does it mean mention or quote here?


----------



## anahiseri

This explanation from the DUDEN seems applicable here:
(in übertragener Bedeutung -  figurative meaning) Bilder, Erinnerungen, die Vergangenheit beschwören _(lebendig werden lassen, klar und deutlich ins Bewusstsein [zurück]rufen)   -- My try: 
*T. v. G. is tired of proclaiming (?)  these (the successes - Errungenschaften) once and again in trite phrases*_


----------



## bearded

I would suggest: tired of _evoking _these...
And I think it should read ''in abgedroschen*en* Phrasen''.


----------



## anahiseri

bearded said:


> I would suggest: tired of _evoking _these...
> And I think it should read ''in abgedroschen*en* Phrasen''.


----------



## JClaudeK

bearded said:


> I would suggest: tired of _evoking _these...



or
"tired of _recalling* _them _(e.g.:  die großen und kleinen Errungenschaften der EU)_ with hackneyed phrases" (?)


----------



## elroy

bearded said:


> _evoking_


It would be “*in*voking” if anything, but I don’t like that in this context.

Suggestion:

_He’s sick/tired of constantly singing their praises with clichés. _


----------



## bearded

elroy said:


> It would be “*in*voking” if anything


 
Being a native Engl. speaker, can you please explain what is wrong with 'evoking'? Isn't this verb correct in the sense of 'recall, mention, bring to mind'?
evoke


----------



## elroy

bearded said:


> can you please explain


 I can try...

The context here is about repeatedly mentioning something, talking about it, etc. (cf. @anahiseri's "proclaim").  We don't use "evoke" for that; it doesn't fit.

"Evoke" is about _causing_ something, _bringing it about_, by doing something else, as in the first couple examples in the dictionary:

Your song evoked a memory. >>> The song caused the memory to come to mind.
It's hard to evoke a response... >>> It's hard to bring about a response by doing xyz.

But you can't "evoke" something by saying it.

Does that help?


----------



## bearded

elroy said:


> you can't "evoke" something by saying it.


It helps indeed. Based on your reply, it's clear that English 'evoke/invoke' and Romance 'evocare,évoquer/invocare/invoquer' are all ''false friends''. In Italian (and my modest English is of course influenced by Italian) I can _evocare _somebody's successes/Errungenschaften, or the events of WW2 - and it means mention them or talk about them. _Invocare _here only means to implore/supplicate (a god..) or to beg for (help..).
Thank you very much, elroy.


----------



## elroy

It seems that we can at least say that “evoke” and its Romance cognates are false friends with regard to this particular meaning that the latter have.


----------



## berndf

The way @elroy described it is also the only way I have ever heard _evoke_ being used in English and that is also how I would use _evozieren_ in German. But interestingly, Wester still has the meaning to conjure in the sense of "to summon by or as if by invocation or incantation" as well.


----------



## elroy

berndf said:


> Wester still has the meaning to conjure in the sense of "to summon by or as if by invocation or incantation" as well.


 That wouldn't work here, though, would it?


----------



## berndf

elroy said:


> That wouldn't work here, though, would it?


Well, it is a good description of what _beschwören_ literally means. _Beschwören_ is admittedly used figuratively here, but a literal translation wouldn't sound too bad in my ears.


----------



## elroy

Hm, I think how far you can stretch the boundaries of a word’s usability and kind-of-sort-of make it work in a particular sentence differs from language to language.  The tolerance levels are different, and it may be the case that in this sentence, German is more tolerant of using “beschwören” than English would be of using a literal translation.


----------



## berndf

We have to keep in mind that the text purposefully uses colourful language. The image _beschwören_ evokes (  ) in my mind is that of a magician casting secret spells to call up some supernatural being.


----------



## elroy

Wait, I think “conjure up” might be the verb we’re looking for!

_but he has grown weary of using worn-out platitudes to *conjure up* images of them again and again _


----------



## berndf




----------



## elroy

Note, however, that I added “images of.”  “Conjure *them* up” would be beyond what English would tolerate, I think.


----------



## berndf

On top, what makes it particularly difficult to translate is that _Erfolge beschwören_ is a bit of a wordplay as it mixes two meanings of the verb: _to conjure something up_ and to _confirm something under oath_.


----------



## Perseas

elroy said:


> It would be “*in*voking” if anything, but I don’t like that in this context.
> 
> Suggestion:
> 
> _He’s sick/tired of constantly singing their praises with clichés. _


Yes, "invoke" like in "The poet invokes/calls upon his muse".
Another phrasal verb that crossed my mind is maybe "to wheel something out" like in this sentence in Oxford dictionary: _They wheeled out the same old arguments we'd heard so many times before. _


----------



## elroy

Oh, I’ve never heard that one before!  I wonder if it’s British?


----------



## Perseas

elroy said:


> Oh, I’ve never heard that one before!  I wonder if it’s British?


The Greek word for "beschwören" in this context is "επικαλούμαι" and WR has all these meanings about it. Among them is "wheel out":
https://www.wordreference.com/gren/επικαλούμαι


----------



## elroy

Well, for “wheel out” it gives επικαλούμαι *διαρκώς κπ/κτ*.  I have no idea what this means, of course.  

It sounds like “wheel out” fits meaning-wise , but it might be specifically British.


----------



## Perseas

elroy said:


> Well, for “wheel out” it gives επικαλούμαι *διαρκώς κπ/κτ*. I have no idea what this means, of course.


επικαλούμαι *διαρκώς κπ/κτ* = to invoke/call on/point to/quote etc ... *sb/sth constantly*.


----------



## JClaudeK

elroy said:


> It sounds like “wheel out”  fits meaning-wise , but it might be specifically British.


Im Cambridge Dictionary steht  nichts  von _only UK_ für “wheel out”.

“wheel _sth _out” scheint eher dem deutschen "etw. breitwalzen" zu entsprechen.
_
eine breitgewalzte                        Frage_ = eine abgedroschene Frage


----------



## Perseas

JClaudeK said:


> “wheel _sth _out” scheint eher dem deutschen "etw. breitwalzen" zu entsprechen.


Pons gives for "wheel out <-> sth." --> " etw hervorholen [o. fam ausgraben] fig"


----------



## JClaudeK

JClaudeK said:


> “wheel _sth _out” scheint eher dem deutschen "etw. breitwalzen" zu entsprechen.


Ich nehme an, dass beiden_ (fig.) _Ausdrücken das Nudelholz zugrunde liegt. (Aber vielleicht täusche ich mich.)

Zum "Ausgraben" braucht man eher eine Schaufel.


----------



## berndf

Bei _wheel out _geht es um die Räder eines Wagens oder Karrens, wie z.B. in _the company wheeled out its latest product_. Hier ist das zugrunde liegende Bild, dass das Produkt auf einem Wagen in einen _show room_ gerollt wird. Bei _to wheel a cliché_ out ist das zugrunde liegende Bild, dass man mit einem Wagen oder Sackkarre in einen Abstellraum geht um damit die (mehr oder minder dummen) alten Sprüche _hervorzukarren_.


----------



## JClaudeK

Ah, danke!


----------

