# Something + adjective



## Dymn

This came to mind after this thread about noun and adjective order in English.

Despite English being an Adj+N language, adjectives complementing "something" and possibly other pronouns, come after it. For example, _something witty. _How would you translate it?

Catalan and Spanish are N+Adj languages and obviously the adjective follows "something": _quelcom enginyós / algo ingenioso
_
How about your language?


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## Awwal12

Same in Russian (что-то/нечто остроумное), despite having a very strong preference towards Adj+N.


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## ThomasK

I think it will be behind the noun in quite some languages because it is something like a genitive noun (something of beauty): _iets mooi*s*_ (something "of" beautiful) in Dutch, _quelquechose *de* beau_ (French), _etwas* S*chön*es*_ (German: capital hints at a noun, the s can be a genitive)... That is a hypothesis. I wonder whether it is the case in Slavic languages, and others, etc.


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## apmoy70

Greek is like English:

*«Κάτι έξυπνο»* [ˈkati ˈek͡sipno] --> _something witty_ (indeclinable indefinite pronoun *«κάτι»* --> _something_ < Βyz.Gr. *«κἄντι» kánti* (same meaning) < Classical adv. *«κἄν» kắn* --> _even, when_ (the result of crasis between the conj. *«καί» kaí̯* --> _also, even, and_ (with obscure etymology) + modal particle *«ἄν» ắn* (with obscure etymology)) + neuter interrogative pronoun *«τί» tí̯*, with the adjective in accusative.


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## Yendred

ThomasK said:


> _quelquechose *de* beau_ (French)



_quelque chose de beau_ (with a blank between _quelque _and _chose_, these are two separate words)


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## fdb

ThomasK said:


> _etwas* S*chön*es*_ (German: capital hints at a noun, the s can be a genitive)...


 
No, it is nom. sing. neuter.


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## ThomasK

I wonder whether that is correct: you would have a pronoun juxtaposed to a substantived adjective. I suppose you are right that as for the form it may be a nom. too, but due to the de in French... But OK, we shall see...

@Yendred: I admit, mistake!



apmoy70 said:


> Greek is like English:
> 
> *«Κάτι έξυπνο»* [ˈkati ˈek͡sipno] --> _something witty_ (indeclinable indefinite pronoun *«κάτι»* --> _something_ < Βyz.Gr. *«κἄντι» kánti* (same meaning) < Classical adv. *«κἄν» kắn* --> _even, when_ (the result of crasis between the conj. *«καί» kaí̯* --> _also, even, and_ (with obscure etymology) + modal particle *«ἄν» ắn* (with obscure etymology)) + neuter interrogative pronoun *«τί» tí̯*, with the adjective in accusative.


 Could you explain the accusative form, Apmoy?


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## fdb

"Nun zu etwas anderem!" (Example from DWDS).

This would not be possible if "etwas" required a noun in the genitive.


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## ThomasK

I suppose you are right. Just one note: would you not be needing a capital if the "anderem" were a noun?


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## bibax

In connection with _something, anything, nothing, _etc. Czech uses the adjective in genitive (partitive?).

*něco chytrého* = something [of] witty;
*nic chytrého* = nothing [of] witty;

The reverse order "chytrého něco" is not used, but "chytrého nic" is common:

*Řekl něco chytrého?* = Did he say something [of] witty?
*Ne, chytrého nic*. = lit. No, of_witty nothing _(reverse order)_.
*Ne, chytrého neřekl nic*. = lit. No, of_witty he didn't say nothing. = No, he said nothing witty.

Latin uses either nominative (accusative) or genitive:

*nihil novum* (nom./acc. neuter as nihil is neuter) *sub sole* = nothing new under the sun;
*nihil novi* (gen.) *sub sole* = -"- ;


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## Dymn

To be fair, standard Catalan also uses the partitive like French: _quelcom d'enginyós _i.e. "something of witty"... it's just that syntaxis is lately very Castilianized and this fell off my radar...


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## ilocas2

Awwal12 said:


> Same in Russian (что-то/нечто остроумное)



Croatian - nešto oštroumno


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## ThomasK

@Awwal (and ilocas2): you hinted at another option in Russian containing a noun. Could you explain what that option is?

This partitive/ genitive keeps turning up. And the fact that the adjective very often or always follows the pronoun, seems to show (hint at) that this adjective must have a special function in the sentence. Yet, I don't think there are parallels with personal pronouns. Can you say "somebody crazy"? I wonder. Cannot see it in Dutch, except "een gek iemand" perhaps, but no special word order...


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## Messquito

In Chinese, adjectives *always* come before the noun they modify in a nominal phrase, even when the noun is something, anything, etc.


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## merquiades

I believe in French the _quelque_ of _quelque chose_ is rather related to the fact that quantitative modifiers are followed by _de

Quelque chose de bon à manger                           _Italian:  _qualcosa di buono da mangiare
Quelqu'un d'important
Plus de personnes
Beaucoup d'amis
Peu de femmes
Moins de temps
Assez de bêtises
Bien de professeurs
Trop de voitures
Autant de villes
Tant de belle choses
La plupart des gens
Un minimum de respect
Combien de fois?
_
I did have a Russian instructor tell me once that every time this quantitative _de_ occurs in French it shows when you should use the genitive case when translating into Russian


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## bibax

However in Russian (unlike in Czech) the adjective standing after "что-то/нечто" (something, quelque chose) is in nominative.

_Czech: něco dobrého (gen.) k snědku = quelque chose de bon à manger;_

After "кто-то/некто/někdo, ..." (someone, somebody, etc.) the adjective is in nominative, both in Czech and Russian:
*кто-то/некто остроумный, někdo chytrý* = someone witty;


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## ThomasK

@merquiades: interesting note. But then  there are clear-cut nouns among the quantifiers you mention (la plupart, un minimum,...) where the genitive is only logical, and others. But maybe the others are imitations. I am inclined to think that the  other quantifiers are adjectival but can be used as nouns, not in Dutch as far as I can see, but in French.


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## Christine Purple

Hi everyone
Can somebody  tell me if the following sentences are both correct?

_'Money is something always attractive to everyone.'_ 

_Money is something *which is* always attractive to everyone_.)

Can we use something + always + adjective'? with no relative pronoun?

thanks 
Cristina


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## Armas

Finnish: _jotain nokkelaa_ "something witty"

But which part of speech is "something" in such a phrase? In wiktionary I read that "something" can be pretty much anything: pronoun, verb, adjective, noun, adverb. In "something witty" it looks like a noun rather than a pronoun. In wiktionary the noun has this example: "it is clear that *something* extraordinary is happening"
Finnish lacks such a word. We use the same word with both adjectives and nouns:
(1) _pöydällä on *jotain* mönjää_ lit. "on-table is some goo" (there is some goo on the table)
(2) _pöydällä on *jotain* tahmeaa_ lit. "on-table is some sticky" (there is something sticky on the table)
(3) _pöydällä on *jotain* tahmeaa mönjää_ lit. "on-table is some sticky goo" (there is some sticky goo on the table)

In Finnish therefore, in my opinion at any rate, _jotain_ + adj. doesn't look discordant with A + N, but rather it looks like the normal word order A + N, preceded by a pronoun: (1) P + N, (2) P + A, (3) P + A + N. The same word order is used with other pronouns. _Te pienet lapset_ "You small children", P + A + N. _Minä onneton typerys uskoin_ lit. "I wretched fool believed", P + A + N + V.


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> Awwal (and ilocas2): you hinted at another option in Russian containing a noun. Could you explain what that option is?


Sorry, I somehow missed your question.
что-то ['ʂtɔtə] - "something unknown to the speaker"
нечто ['nʲeʨtə] - "something in general", a more formal/bookish word

Russian words for "some", "any", "something" and "anything" can be an extensive topic (also involving a lot of syntax).


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## ThomasK

Christine Purple said:


> Hi everyone
> Can somebody  tell me if the following sentences are both correct?
> 
> _'Money is something always attractive to everyone.'
> 
> Money is something *which is* always attractive to everyone_.)
> 
> Can we use something + always + adjective'? with no relative pronoun?
> 
> thanks
> Cristina


I would think not. "Something very/quite/... attractive" seems OK to me (dioms), but not "something always ...". But I am not a native speaker.


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## ThomasK

fdb said:


> No, it is nom. sing. neuter.


Well, I was afraid so, but still...


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## ThomasK

Armas said:


> Finnish: _jotain nokkelaa_ "something witty"
> 
> But which part of speech is "something" in such a phrase? In wiktionary I read that "something" can be pretty much anything: pronoun, verb, adjective, noun, adverb. In "something witty" it looks like a noun rather than a pronoun. In wiktionary the noun has this example: "it is clear that *something* extraordinary is happening"


I think "something" is always a some kind of a pro-noun, as it c an be a subject. We can use it as some kind of adverbs as in "Iets gestegen", risen somewhat, but the original meaning of "something" and "what" in English is a noun, I think...


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## Awwal12

ThomasK said:


> I think "something" is always a some kind of a pro-noun


In English - certainly so. In Russian it's also a pronoun by distributive criteria; "что-то" is also an obvious pronoun morphologically (cf. "что" - what; which; it's exactly the declinable part - "чего-то", "чему-то" etc.).


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## AndrasBP

Dymn said:


> Despite English being an Adj+N language, adjectives complementing "something" and possibly other pronouns, come after it. For example, _something witty. _How would you translate it?


Hungarian is also an Adj+N language, but the "something + Adj" structure is used the same way as in Engish:

valami érdekes = something interesting
valami hasznos = something useful
valami finom = something tasty


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## Olaszinhok

AndrasBP said:


> valami érdekes = something interesting
> valami hasznos = something useful
> valami finom = something tasty


In Italian we use the partitive like in French:
Qualcosa d'interessante
qualcosa di utile
qualcosa di saporito


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## Nizo

In Esperanto, the adjective can precede or follow the noun; however, in normal use, Esperanto is mostly an Adj+N language.

Despite that, the adjective always seems to follow the words _io_ (something) and _nenio_ (nothing). Examples: _io sprita_ (something witty), _En Okcidento Nenio Nova_ (Im Westen nichts Neues by Erich Maria Remarque).


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