# Arabic alphabet



## Qcumber

As salaam 3alaikum
When did the Arabs switch from the abajada order to the abatatha order?
The abajada order was parallel to that of other Semitic languages, and Greek.
What was the reason why they changed the order?


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## elroy

Wild, unacademic guess: The current order arranges the letters according to shape, which the old order does not (I assume in the old alphabet the extra letters were just tacked on to the end?).


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## Abu Bishr

Hi Qcumber

Apparently, it was done during the time of al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf al-Thaqafi by someone called Asim al-Laithi or by someone-esle called Yahya ibn 'Amir al-Adwani. The reason for the change is that the Abjadi order was, apparently, confusing because it did not group similar looking letters together, so the Arabs came up with the Alif-Ba-Ta order because it was easier to learn.

This seems to make sense to me, because al-Hajjaj or his time is also accredited with diacritically marking the Quran. It is also known that serious linguistic activity started not long after the advent of Islam, approximately in the fourth Caliph's term of office who was Ali ibn Talib (cousin & son-in-law of the Prophet Muhammad). Prior to this period there was no linguistic activity going on in the Arab world, literary, yes, but nothing about grammar and so on. In fact, the Arabs were'nt, prior to this period, very interested in reading and writing.

You would also recall that Khalil ibn Ahmad al-Farahidi, also used a different order from both the two aforementioned ones. He based his system of ordering letters in accordance with their points off articulation starting from the throat or larynx. Thus, the first letter in his system was the "Ayn" (ع) as this letter was the furthest one down in the oral tract, and then he proceeded out, plotting all the letters along the way. It is for this reason that he named his dictionary "Kitab al-'Ayn". This is his full system from right to left:

ع, ح هـ خ غ ق ك ج ش ض ص س ز ط د ت ظ ذ ث ر ل ن ف ب م ي و ا 

Note, that he places the three long vowels at the end, the first two of which can obviously be consonants as well.

Anyhow, I think with Khalil experimenting with the order of the alphabet, attempts were already made to change the then existing order. I think also another Arab linguist arranged the Arabic alphabet starting with the letter jiim (ج) . 

Another point, that I just remembered now, is that even when the current order was sort of becoming standard, it was not used for arranging the first letter but rather the final letter. Thus, the famous Lisan al-Arab by Ibn Manthour al-Ifriqi has words arranged according to Alif Ba Ta-order but based on their final letters. It was only later on that they switched to the first letter.

In any case, I think the current order makes it easy for learners and beginners to distinguish similar looking letters by juxtaposing them.


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## Anatoli

> Note, that he places the three long vowels at the end, the first two of which can obviously be consonants as well.


Alif (alef) used to have 2 uses as well - long aa (vowel) and a glottal stop (consonant).


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## elroy

Anatoli said:


> Alif (alef) used to have 2 uses as well - long aa (vowel) and a glottal stop (consonant).


 Used to?


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## Qcumber

What you said is extremely interesting, Abu Bishr. I can't express how grateful I am.

So the Arab grammarians you mentioned replaced the traditional order by a pedagogical one after an intermediary phonetic order.

Could you please give approximate dates for the period of al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf al-Thaqafi?

As regards Kitaab al 3ain, did you notice the placement of the letter shin? If you are interested in phonology, I'd recommend you the following monograph - unless you already know it - because it gives the reason why it is among the emphatics.

STEINER, Richard C. (1977)
The case for fricative-laterals in Proto-Semitic
New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society

An illuminating study.


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## Anatoli

elroy said:


> Used to?


Well, it's a hamza carrier and only at the beginning of the word, not the actual letter representing the glottal stop. I can't recall the source to explain what I mean exactly.


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## Qcumber

By the way, where is the hamza in Khalil's alphabetic order? I 'm afraid I can't see it.


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## Qcumber

I did some Google research about Khalil's Kitab al Ain, and discovered he was officially celebrated this year 2006 both by his native country (Oman) and the UNESCO on the occasion of the 1300th anniversary of his birthday.


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## Anatoli

Qcumber said:


> By the way, where is the hamza in Khalil's alphabetic order? I 'm afraid I can't see it.


Maybe this is the answer to Elroy's question about my post. If I remember correctly, alif used to represent the glottal stop and hamza was invented later. Just my guess based on what I read, I might be wrong.


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## Abu Bishr

Qcumber said:


> What you said is extremely interesting, Abu Bishr. I can't express how grateful I am.
> 
> As regards Kitaab al 3ain, did you notice the placement of the letter shin? If you are interested in phonology, I'd recommend you the following monograph - unless you already know it - because it gives the reason why it is among the emphatics.
> 
> STEINER, Richard C. (1977)
> The case for fricative-laterals in Proto-Semitic
> New Haven, Connecticut: American Oriental Society
> 
> An illuminating study.


 
Yes, 
I'm very interested in phonology, & I'm aware of the placement of the letter shiin. Classically (as borne out by Sibawayh's famous al-Kitab -Sibawayh, by the way, was Khalil's student - and later followed by all books on Tajwiid), the Shiin together with the Jiim & Ya (as a consonant) have their point of articulation in the central or middle part of the tongue together with the part of the pallate opposing it, not the front part of the tongue as in English or other languages. It is therefore my contention that the /sh/ in Arabic is pronounced differently from the /sh/ in other languages. The difference, however, might not be easy to pick up. I myself have always paid careful attention to pronunciation of Arabic sounds, which is greatly emphasized in the Quranic science of Tajwiid (meticulous observance of the rules of pronunciation). I can, therefore, say for a fact that the shiin, in Quranic Arabic at least, is pronounced distinctly from the /sh/ sound elsewhere. This also applies to the Arabic jiim sound.

As for the Hamzah, I tend to agree with Anatoli on this one.


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## Qcumber

Abu Bishr, I am not a Muslim and never intended to convert, but, in 1960, I was taught the pronunciation of Classical Arabic by an Algerian 3aliim "scholar" who held a high degree from Az Zaituuna, Tunis.

The way he pronounced the emphatics was extremely different from how they actually were. He warned me his was the true Arabic pronunciation, although almost forgotten, so he also taught me the standard pronunciation, that was quite different.

I have forgotten a lot since, but do remember many things.

As regards the letter shin, his pronunciation didn't differ from the standard Arabic one, whereas its position in Kitaab al 3ain reveals a different one. (The letter jiim was pronounced giim.) 

One shouldn't forget Khaliil's phonetic order reflects the Mediaeval pronunciation of Arabic, while the current reading of the Qur²aan reflects a much later one probably dating back to the 18th century CE. Besides I have the impression - I may be wrong - it is not mastered by all clerics. I heard once an Indonesian cleric reading a passage, and was amazed at his inability to articulate many sounds of Arabic. Ditto with Philippine Muslims. 

Incidentally, you'll find a similar problem with Hebrew. According to a Jewish linguist, rabbis can utter the sounds that exist in German or Spanish, but cannot articulate some sounds that originally existed in Hebrew. He compared the current official pronunciation of Hebrew in Europe to the Erasmean pronunciation for Classical Greek. Both are merely conventional. 

By the way, I remember the Algerian scholar insisted the true Arabic /f/ was not articulated with lip and teeth as in Western languages (he spoke fluent Italian and French), but only with the two lips rounded, while conceding his fellow countrymen's /f/ didn't differ from the Western /f/. He made me repeat the words fum and fuu, both meaning "mouth", for me to feel the difference with the Western /f/.


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## Abu Bishr

Hi Qcumber

As you would know that the Arabic tradition is primarily an oral one. There is not a single authorative Quranic reader except that he has to have received his manner of reading the Quran orally from his teacher, and the latter from his teacher, and so on until the Prophet Muhammad. This is called Quranic Ijaazah (i.e. Quranic authorization or certification). Since there exist ten major readings of the Quran all of which trace their origins to a single source namely, Prophet Muhammad. Now, a cleric is not necessarily a Quranic reader and vice versa.

In fact, you can go to a number of Arab countries today (foremost amongst them Egypt & Syria as well as Saudi) where you can obtain a Quranic ijaazah either in one reading or all ten reading, and they would not give you the ijaazah if they were'nt certain that you have mastered that reading. The Quranic ijaazah is a huge certificate that features your name, your teacher's name and then the complete chain of reciters right up to the Prophet Muhammad. Books upon book have been written on the manner of reciting the Quran, and some of the prominent works occur in a versified didactic poem. The two most prominent ones are: al-Tariiqah al-Shatibiyyah (original name "Hirz al-Amaani") & al-Tariiqah al-Jazariyyah (original name "Tayyibah al-Nashr"). The bottom-line here is that no matter how much you have read on and how knowledgeable you are on Quranic recitation, in the final analysis what matters is have you received it orally from a a comptent and authorative teacher or not, since Quranic recitation is fist and foremost an oral rather than a written tradition. 

Thus, you will find at every Islamic University of international repute that there exist a Faculty called the "Faculty of the Quran" where inter alia all these readings are taught by authorative scholars. Muslims, therefore, believe that what they have in their midst is the Quran as articulated by the Prophet and orally transmitted throughout the ages up today. Now, I say "Muslims" because I'm aware of orientalists' views on the issue of the transmission of the Quran.

Now, I also remember having come accross in my readings that the Jews often depended on the Arabs for knowledge of how Hebrew characters are to be pronounced. It is known, that Arabic linguistic theory gave tremendous impetus to the development of Hebrew grammar. In fact, the first Hebrew grammar texts were written in Arabic. Naom Chomsky's father, William Chomsky, translated the famous "Mikhlol" of David Kimhi together with extensive annotations in which constant reference is made to Arabic. The Mikhlol basically is the quintessence of the Hebrew grammatical theory in its hayday under the Spanish Hebrew grammarians. A lot of this information can be found in the e-version of the Jewish Encyclopedia.

As for the Algerian scholar, I need to know exactly, what he said, and how he arrived at his conclusions, in order for me to pass judgment.


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## Abu Bishr

Hi Qcumber

On the issue of how the faa is pronounced in Arabic (classically & modern) see the following passage from Sibawayh's Book (Al-Kitaab) (Sibawayh being Khaliil's student) on the section of Arabic phonetics and on which all subsequent treatments are based:

ومن باطن الشفة السفلى وأطراف الثنايا العلى مخرج الفاء‏.‏ 

Which means: "and from the inside of the bottom lip and the the cutting edges of the top incisors is the place of emanation of the (letter) faa". The faa is thus labio-dental. So I can't see how the faa would have been pronounced differently if this is how it was pronounced classically.

You can find Sibaway's full treatment of the the points of articulation of Arabic letters in the last volume of his magnum opus (al-Kitaab), and it does not differ in form and content significantly from what Quranic reciters teach today.


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## Qcumber

Abu Bishr said:


> As for the Algerian scholar, I need to know exactly, what he said, and how he arrived at his conclusions, in order for me to pass judgment.


 
Hello, Abu Bishr. 

I was only mentioning how and by whom I was taught how to pronounce the letters of the Arabic alphabet. I didn't expect you to pass any judgment on this Algerian scholar. Whatever, he was not young when I met him, so there are few chances he is still alive in 2006, and I lost contact with him a very long time ago. I am simply grateful that he taught me well, even if some of his idiosyncracies do not correspond to standard practice.

Thanks a lot for all the information you supply. I'm not surprised Jewish linguists had to resort to Arabic to reconstitute the original pronunciation of Hebrew.

As regards the letter faa2, yes, the Arab grammarian's description is striking: there is no difference between the Arabic /f/ and the Western /f/. Why on earth did the Algerian scholar insist on this feature? Unfortunately it's now too late to ask him.


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## Qcumber

Abu Bishr wrote


> As you would know that the Arabic tradition is primarily an oral one. There is not a single authorative Quranic reader except that he has to have received his manner of reading the Quran orally from his teacher, and the latter from his teacher, and so on until the Prophet Muhammad. This is called Quranic Ijaazah (i.e. Quranic authorization or certification). Since there exist ten major readings of the Quran all of which trace their origins to a single source namely, Prophet Muhammad. Now, a cleric is not necessarily a Quranic reader and vice versa.


 
This is not clear in my mind. Obviously the Prophet of Islam had his own way of pronouncing the Qur2aan, so the ten schools of reading should be traced back to ten different men not a single one.

Also, if the reading is the same today as it was in the Middle-Ages, this means we should hear the old pronunciations of the emphatics.

I used to have a 45rpm record of Al Mu2minuun (I hope the title is correct) by an Egyptian cantor. I studied it at the time to see if the schwa was used. I must confess I didn't notice any unusual pronunciation of the emphatics otherwise it would have caught my attention.

I'll try and find another recording and listen to it to be sure.


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## angelda123

Does anyone know who invented arabic writing??
And when did they?(day/year)


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## Qcumber

The broadlines are that Beduins observed Egyptian mining teams in the Sinai and noticed they had a writing system - actually it was the cursive alphabetic version of the hieroglyphs. The Beduins developed their own system from the Egyptians', then other peoples borrowed it from them, the Phoenicians in particular. One of the alphabets derived from the Phoenician alphabet was the Aramean alphabet and from it developed the Nabatean, apparently the ancestor of the Arabic alphabet. One of the best-known inscriptions in an early version is that on the tombstone (328 CE) of Imru 'l Qais bar 3amru, King of all the Arabs, an ally of the Roman Empire.


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## MarcB

Wikipedia says this


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## Qcumber

As far I can judge, it's a very good article.


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