# Slovenian: grah



## MrsMiller

I would love to know the dual form (nominative) and the plural forms (nominative and genitive) of the word "grah" (pea). 

There must be dual and plural forms of this noun..... 

Thanks a lot for your help in advance.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Why did you undeline "must be"? There are plenty of nouns which only have either singular or plural form.

Techically speaking it would be like this:
en grah (enega graha)
dva graha (dveh grahov)
trije grahi (treh grahov)

But in reality - read as in standard Slovene - only singular form is used. If you talk about many grains, you use "zrna graha" in a proper case. When you talk about different sorts, you use "vrste/sorte graha".

The same is valid for different kind of grain. Pšenica (wheat), rž (rye), ječmen (barley) etc. also don't have dual and plural forms.


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## MrsMiller

Thanks a lot for your answer. 

After a long time of silence (as I was without an internet connection for some weeks ) I want to continue this thread.



Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Why did you undeline "must be"? There are plenty of nouns which only have either singular or plural form.


 
Yes, I am aware of the fact that plenty of nouns only have either singular or plural form. 

The reason why I underlined "must be" is, that in my view it is somehow illogical that there doesn´t exist a plural form of pea.



Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> The same is valid for different kind of grain. Pšenica (wheat), rž (rye), ječmen (barley) etc. also don't have dual and plural forms.


 
That sounds logically as I see wheat, rye and barely as uncountable stuff.
But I wouldn´t add peas to the group of uncountable stuff.

Maybe I am a bit influenced by the German word "Erbsenzähler" (in English: nitpicker / bean counter).  In German the bean counter is a pea counter. Do you have a corresponding Slovene word for?



Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Techically speaking it would be like this:
> en grah (enega graha) - dva graha (dveh grahov) - trije grahi (treh grahov)
> 
> *But in reality - read as in standard Slovene - only singular form is used*.


 
And how would you express the following phrase in reality/standard Slovene then?

This huge husk contains 8 peas but that little husk only contains 4 peas.

Thanks for your help.


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## skye

As Tolovaj Mataj already said you can use "zrna graha" - grains of pea.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

MrsMiller said:


> That sounds logically as I see wheat, rye and barely as uncountable stuff.
> But I wouldn´t add peas to the group of uncountable stuff.


It looks to me like _grah, __fižol, __soja_ etc use the same form like cereals (btw. _žito_ is also a singular noun). 
What we do count are grains =  _zrna_. 




> Maybe I am a bit influenced by the German word "Erbsenzähler" (in English: nitpicker / bean counter).  In German the bean counter is a pea counter. Do you have a corresponding Slovene word for?


Funny because German had a huge impact on Slovene phraseology but in this case it looks Slovene went on its own way. 
My dictionary says that "Erbsenzähler" is skopuh that is a stingy person. But here stingy people do not count anything else but coins. 

Btw, even the princess from Andersen's fairy tale is called _kraljična na zrnu graha_.





> This huge husk contains 8 peas but that little husk only contains 4 peas.


_Ta velik strok vsebuje osem zrn graha, tisti mali strok pa le štiri (zrna)._


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## MrsMiller

Thanks a lot. 

I think I got the message now how to use "zrna".

I did a try myself and hope for your corrections now (if necessary ).

_We had peas and carrots with the roast._
Imeli smo zrna graha in zrna korenje k pečenki.

_I don´t like peas._
Nimam rada zrn graha. (_Res je! )_
_(small correction: I changed "ne imam" to "nimam")_


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## Duya

MrsMiller said:


> Thanks a lot.
> 
> I think I got the message now how to use "zrna".
> 
> I did a try myself and hope for your corrections now (if necessary ).
> 
> _We had peas and carrots with the roast._
> Imeli smo zrna graha in zrna korenje k pečenki.
> 
> _I don´t like peas. _
> Ne imam rada zrn graha. (_Res je! )_



Hm. I'm not a Slovenian speaker, but from my (neighbor's) perspective those sound utterly wrong. The point is, you should use "zrno" only when you're *emphasizing* that you're dealing with individual grains, and collective "grah" otherwise. Just like with "rye" or "wheat". Thus.

_ Imeli smo grah in korenje k pečenki._
_Ne imem rada grah.

(Maybe I erred in a case suffix -- Slovenians, please correct me)
_


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Duya, thanks! Explanation is excellent. 



Duya said:


> _Imeli smo grah in korenje k pečenki. _


 
I'd just like to add that _korenje_ is a collective name for roots, but if you don't specify further, then carrots are meant. 
Look here for the usage in recipes:
http://www.google.si/search?hl=sl&rls=com.microsoft%3Asl&q=recepti+grah+korenje&meta=




Duya said:


> _Ne imem rada grah. _
> _(Maybe I erred in a case suffix -- Slovenians, please correct me)_


Actually you made two mistakes, the first is classical, but the second ... hey, we are not Czechs. 

1. yes, negation of the verb demands the object to change the case from accusative to genitive.
2. _ne imeti_ conjugates like this: nimam, nimaš, nima; nimava, nimata, nimata; nimamo, nimate, nimajo

Therefore:
_Nimam rada graha_.

(Jaz pa ga imam!  )


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## MrsMiller

Duya said:


> The point is, you should use "zrno" only when you're *emphasizing* that you're dealing with individual grains, and collective "grah" otherwise. Just like with "rye" or "wheat". Thus.


 
I see. 

Thanks for your help.


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## Duya

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Actually you made two mistakes, the first is classical, but the second ... hey, we are not Czechs.



Ah, I see that my Lačni Franz records need a thorough re-listening .


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Duya said:


> Ah, I see that my Lačni Franz records need a thorough re-listening .


Be careful. Nowadays pop/rock song writers don't care much about the language. If you'd like to learn Štajeriš dialekt with a lot of open e-s and o-s, then go ahead. 
But if you'd like to hear a good language, then I'm afraid you must go back to the golden years of Slovene pop songs and chansones... back to late 60'-ies and early '70-ies. And avoid Sidartha, they tend to mix slang and standard Slovene to get a rhyme.


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