# 馬に乗れないのに



## Damon89

Hi,
I would really appreciate some help in the translation of the following sentence. It is pronounced by a man who is having a dream of being in the Kamakura period in Japan, and he is asked to ride a horse and fight in a battle. He obviously doesn't know how to either ride a horse or fight, so he's very bewildered (he hasn't yet realized he's dreaming). Here's the 'culprit' sentence:

「馬に乗れないのに、乗って戦えと言われても無理ですよ。」

The single parts of the sentence are (I believe) clear, but the harmony of the whole is lost on me. Here is my proposed translation:

'Despite my not being able of riding a horse, even if I was told to fight (while riding), it was impossible.'

As you can see, my sentence doesn't seem to make much sense. Taken one by one, the two parts of this sentence (for translating purposes, I consider the two parts as the ones separated by the comma in the original text) are logical, but together... they sound strange, because of the combination of 'despite' and 'even if'.

Could somebody please provide me with a more suitable interpretation of this sentence? I believe the general meaning is perfectly understable, but the grammar details are eluding me.

Thank you very much in advance for your help.


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## Wishfull

Hi.

My English is poor, but this might be your help.

"You said to me, "Fight as a _cavalryman_". But it's impossible because I can't even ride a horse."

In this context, a cavalryman is a soldier or fighter who is riding a horse, and at the same time who is using a sword and a shield and have to fight with his enemies.
So a cavalryman have to ride on a horse with hand free. A much more skill is requested than just riding a horse.


Wishfull


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## almostfreebird

I believe it's a humorous story(like "A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court"); 
and the 'culprit' sentence is casual, 

so when it's translated literally it sounds stiff, 
so there needs a little free translation.

My try:
「馬に乗れないのに、乗って戦えと言われても無理ですよ。」

"Come on, it's impossible; you say "Ride on a horse and fight", but I can't even ride on it."




AFB


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## Strutter

Hi! 

I think WIshful-san and Almostfreebird-san showed a good explanation.

I'll show one point only. If I would say your sentence as a proxility one,

「そもそも、私は馬に乗れません。なので、「馬に乗って戦え」と、あなたが私に言ったところで、それは無理です。」

Thanks.


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## almostfreebird

Strutter said:


> Hi!
> 
> I think WIshful-san and Almostfreebird-san showed a good explanation.
> 
> I'll show one point only. If I would say your sentence as a proxility one,
> 
> 「そもそも、私は馬に乗れません。なので、「馬に乗って戦え」と、あなたが私に言ったところで、それは無理です。」
> 
> Thanks.



I think that Damon89 is trying to translate "馬に乗れないのに、乗って戦えと言われても無理ですよ。" ,which is described as it is in a novel, into English.

Edit: my mistake, I know what you mean.


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## almostfreebird

Damon89 said:


> 'Despite my not being able of riding a horse, even if I was told to fight (while riding), it was impossible.'
> 
> As you can see, my sentence doesn't seem to make much sense. Taken one by one, the two parts of this sentence (for translating purposes, I consider the two parts as the ones separated by the comma in the original text) are logical, but together... they sound strange, because of the combination of 'despite' and 'even if'.



Yes, ~noni means "in spite of, despite or although":

(かれ)そんなに金持ちでもないのに，フェラーリとポルシェを所有している。
In spite of the fact that he is not so rich, he owns a Ferrari and a Porsche.

Sometimes it's easier to consider "noni" as "but":

He is not so rich, but he owns a Ferrari and a Porsche.

Likewise,

"馬に乗れないのに、乗って戦えと言われても無理ですよ。"

I can't ride on a horse, but you say "Ride on a horse and fight". It's impossible.


You're right, the combination of 'despite' and 'even if' is awkward.


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## Damon89

返事は、どうもありがとうございます。

Thank you very much for all your answers, you helped me clear up this point. =)
I should learn to be less 'stiff' in my translations and consider alternative possibilities.


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## Tom in Hawaii

A little more colloquial translation could be something like:

I can't even ride a horse!  There's no way you can tell me to ride and fight!

お役に立てば幸い。


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## divisortheory

I came across the following sentence:

確かな証拠もないのに人を疑ってはいけない。

Translated as:

"You should not be suspicious of someone without any definite proof."

This use of のに is a little confusing to me.  Generally のに either means "although" or is the nominalizer particle (like V+の / V+こと) followed by the particle に indicating direction / purpose / etc.

Here, it seems to fit the former usage more closely, but still it doesn't feel right to me.  If we actually use the word "although" here, it would be "You should not be suspicious of someone although you have no definite proof."  But although is the wrong word here, because the very definition of "although" suggests that the result is not expected, or not what "should" have happened.

At least for the English version, "since" or "if" would be more appropriate then "although", so I feel like ～ば, ～たら, or ないで would be more appropriate.  For example:

確かな証拠もないで人を疑ってはいけない。
確かな証拠もなかったら人を疑ってはいけない。
確かな証拠もなければ人を疑ってはいけない。

Can anyone explain this?


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## Flaminius

Clause linkage in Japanese is really a nest of headaches.    [I hope some linguists out there can explain all of them by nifty symbols and translate into English equivalents.]

Yes, I agree _although_ is not right.  Then, how about _despite the fact_?  Probably it is a wooden translation but at least not ungrammatical to say:
Despite the fact that you had no solid evidence, you suspected someone.  This is not good.

The sentence is okay even when the act of suspecting has not happened yet.  What the speaker do not agree with is that the listener thinks they can be suspicious of someone even when they don't have evidence.

At a more abstract level, a _noni_-headed clause contains a basic violation for the existence (or availability, truthfulness; don't have the proper word in stock...) of the main clause.  If the _noni_-clause holds true, then the main clause is not suppose to happen.



> 確かな証拠もな*しに*人を疑ってはいけない。
> 確かな証拠*が*なかったら人を疑ってはいけない。
> 確かな証拠*が*なければ人を疑ってはいけない。


The last two sentences may be okay with _-mo_ in limited contexts.


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