# pronunciation of the letter "כ/ך"



## M-Pink

Hi 
I have problem pronouncing the letter Khaf "כ/ך" sometimes I hear people pronounce it in one word like Khaf and sometimes in the same word like koof "ק" .. so what is the rule?​ 


שלום
יש לי בעיה בהיגוי האות "כ/ך" לפעמים אני שומעת אנשים אומרים אותה במילה אחת
khaf​ 
ולפעמים אחרים באותה מילה אומרים אותה כפי שאומרים "ק".. אז מה הוא העיקרון?​ 
אגב: איך אומרים בעברית 
to pronunce ?​ 
אשמח מאוד אם תתנו לי תשובה בעברית​ 
תודה מראש ​


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## Ensign_Sulu

The letter you're asking about follows essentially the same rules as the letters
Beth (ב)
and
Pe (פ)
If it's at the beginning of the word, it has the harder sound like the letter _k_ (and _b_, _p_).
If it's at the end of the word, it has the softer sound like _kh_ (and _v_, _f_).

Then there are some slightly more complicated rules. After the definite article it gets the harder sound _k_, but after indefinite prepositions it gets the softer sound.

Quiz:
What will be the sound of the letter כ in these examples?

הכלים

שפך


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## origumi

The rules are much more difficult, with many exceptions. See for example 2 Samual 19:1, where there's a dagesh in the final כ and no dagesh in the initial ב.
 
וַיִּרְגַּז הַמֶּלֶךְ, וַיַּעַל עַל-עֲלִיַּת הַשַּׁעַר--וַיֵּבְךְּ; וְכֹה אָמַר בְּלֶכְתּוֹ, בְּנִי אַבְשָׁלוֹם בְּנִי בְנִי אַבְשָׁלוֹם, מִי-יִתֵּן מוּתִי אֲנִי תַחְתֶּיךָ, אַבְשָׁלוֹם בְּנִי בְנִי


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## Talib

More accurately the sounds of ב כך פף are stops (/b k p) before a vowel, and fricatives /f x v/ when after a vowel. The letters ג ד ת follow similar rules in historical and some Sephardi pronunciations.

But as origumi says, the rules are complicated. There are some cases where I don't really understand why these letters have dagesh, and why they don't when I think they "should".


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## M-Pink

firstly, thank you much.

secondly, I have a few questions related to your answers.. 

I know that also ב and פ/ף have two sounds but my question was about כ/ך because I thought that only כ/ך can has two sounds for the same word..

consider this example:
(1)  ....אין בכוונתו ל
 (2).....מתוך כוונה ל​in the first sentence the sound is kh, and in the second is k.. 
can you please give me the rule for this example?

also words like כל, כך  have two sounds .. Is there any specific rule for them?

what is the correct sound for כ in לפי כך?

and I have one final unrelated question concerning origumi's interesting example:
once I was told that the meaning of the word כה is כל כך but according to the example " וְכֹה אָמַר בְּלֶכְתּוֹ" the meaning is כך.. right?! can it mean כל כך in other cases?!

 The Quiz


> Quiz:
> What will be the sound of the letter כ in these examples?
> 
> הכלים
> 
> שפך


 
the sound is kh in both examples.. right?

actually the second example is easy because the khaf is in the end.. but the first ( the verb הכלים) .. I think maybe it has no rule and the only way to know the correct sound is to memorize it .. right?

Ensign_Sulu,, thank you much for this quiz

Thank you all
​


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## origumi

M-Pink said:


> what is the correct sound for כ in לפי כך?


Each of the six בגד כפת letter has two sounds. In nikkud there's a "dagesh" to indicate that it's the k/p/b sound and no dagesh for kh/f/v.
There are two kinds of dagesh: קל and חזק. Dagesh kal comes usually when any of the בגד כפת letters is at the beginning of a syllable (or word). Dagesh khazak is (similarly to Arabic shadda) a sign for "duplicating" the letter (because a preceding letter was dropped, or just because that's the pattern), and also for pronoucing it as k/p/b etc.



M-Pink said:


> once I was told that the meaning of the word כה is כל כך but according to the example " וְכֹה אָמַר בְּלֶכְתּוֹ" the meaning is כך.. right?! can it mean כל כך in other cases?!


You are correct, כה can be "in that manner" or "so". Also - כה וכה means "to here and to there". The starting כ is these words is usually pronunced as k. Again - with exceptions, for example when the preceding word ends with open syllable as demonstrated in Jeremiah 32:15:
כִּי *כ*ֹה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: עוֹד יִקָּנוּ בָתִּים וְשָׂדוֹת וּכְרָמִים, בָּאָרֶץ הַזֹּאת.​


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## Talib

M-Pink said:


> consider this example:
> (1)  ....אין בכוונתו ל
> (2).....מתוך כוונה ל​in the first sentence the sound is kh, and in the second is k..
> can you please give me the rule for this example?​


When the letter begins a word it is always _k_, and it's _kh_ after prefixes like ב.



> also words like כל, כך  have two sounds .. Is there any specific rule for them?


Yes. Always _k_ at the beginning of a word, _kh_ at the end.


> what is the correct sound for כ in לפיכך?


L'fikhakh.​


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## origumi

Talib said:


> When the letter begins a word it is always _k_, and it's _kh_ after prefixes like ב.
> 
> Yes. Always _k_ at the beginning of a word, _kh_ at the end.
> L'fikhakh.


The biblical examples up in this thread show that it's not always.


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## Talib

origumi said:


> The biblical examples up in this thread show that it's not always.


That's true, but that is the general rule. 

Occasionally final ך is k, and initial כ is kh (but as I said, only after prefixes).


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## origumi

Talib said:


> Occasionally final ך is k, and initial כ is kh (but as I said, only after prefixes).


Accept my apologies if I sound too strict repeating the example of כ as kh at the very beginning of the word.

Jeremiah 32:15


> כִּי *כ*ֹה אָמַר יְהוָה צְבָאוֹת, אֱלֹהֵי יִשְׂרָאֵל: עוֹד יִקָּנוּ בָתִּים וְשָׂדוֹת וּכְרָמִים, בָּאָרֶץ הַזֹּאת.


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## Talib

Oh yes. I think that's because כי is a grammatical word of some sort ... I'm too tired to figure out exactly what it is. Good night.


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## M-Pink

please confirm this:

the sound of ך in ארוך (m.) is kh

whereas in ארוכה (f.) it is k

is this another rule?


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## Ensign_Sulu

M-Pink said:


> please confirm this:
> 
> the sound of ך in ארוך (m.) is kh
> 
> whereas in ארוכה (f.) it is k
> 
> is this another rule?


That's the rule, or tendency, where following long vowels and at the end of words the b-g-d-k-f-t letters lose the dagesh (the dot in their center) that they have after short vowels and at the beginning of words.

the _kaf_ in _ארוך_ is soft /kh/ because it's in word-final position, but it can also be analyzed as soft because of it position after a long vowel /o/.

The _kaf_ in _ארֻכּה_, on the other hand, is hard /k/ because it follows a short vowel /u/ - which is different from it's longer counterpart /oo/ or /u:/.

Modern orthography and colloquial phonetics don't distinguish between /u/ and /oo/, but underlyingly they're distinct vowel sounds, and their distinction has implications vis-a-vis surrounding features. Formal phonology distinguishes between the vowels וּ and ֻ.

Incidentally, there are a couple of movements (I'm involved in one of them) to restore the Hebrew language to its erstwhile glory and reinstate all the distinctions between long and short vowels, as well as the lost consonant sounds.


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## hadronic

I also have a question on that same matter.

In the song "Kluv shel zahav" by Teapacks (or Tipex?) and Miri Messika (youtube it to hear it), they say
"Kluv shel zahav, tsipor bi-khluv shel zahav"
כלוב של זהב, ציפור בכלוב של זהב
==> I understand this k-kh transformation but later in the song, they say

"Ve-hi shara, lekol ha'olam"
והיא שרה, לכל העולם
==> Why don't they pronounce "lekhol" here ? Unless they mean
והיא שרה לקול העולם 

Thanks for your help !


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## origumi

hadronic said:


> כלוב של זהב, ציפור בכלוב של זהב
> ...
> והיא שרה, לכל העולם


The observation is correct. Kobi Oz and Miri Messika remembered the bgd-kft rule in one place and forgot in the other. This only show you the status of modern Hebrew: the traditional pronounciation is tought in school and yet, as it has no real basis in the spoken language, it is mostly missed or mixed or leads to funny variations.


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