# All Slavic languages: He told me to do it.



## Jana337

In Czech:
Standard - Řekl mi, abych to udělal. (conditional)
Nowadays, you often hear: Řekl mi, ať to udělám. 

"Ať" is something like the English "I wish" or Russian "пусть", used in optative constructions.

Sentences like "he told/wanted/ordered me to do something" are affected by the new phenomenon, and I cannot determine where it comes from. It doesn't seem to mimic any other language that could have influence on Czech.

Do you observe a similar shift in your languages?

Thanks,

Jana


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Jana,

could we clear out what exactly is meant here?
In English:
direct speech: He says to me: "Do it!"
indirect speech: He told me to do it.

Is it like this?


If yes, then in Slovene it is like this:
direct speech: Rekel mi je: "Naredi to!"
indirect speech: Rekel mi je, naj naredim to. /this is not a conditional in Slovene + there's no sequence of tenses as well./

I haven't noticed this construction has been changed in my lifetime yet.  
It's just the pronounciation which differes from region to region.


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## Jana337

> indirect speech: He told me to do it.
> 
> Is it like this?


Yes, I am interested in the indirect speech. 

The Slovenian translation looks pretty much like the "new" Czech one. 

Jana


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

I checked the meaning of _naj_. It cannot be directly translated to English as it depends on the clause itself. (I'm glad it cannot be.   )

*naj* vez. *1.* v pripovednih odvisnih stavkih _za uvajanje stavka, ki z izražanjem želje ali zahteve dopolnjuje nadrednega_ a) _glede na predmet:_ nagovarjajo me, naj se umaknem; pusti ga, naj vpije / mama pravi, (da) naj spotoma obiščem teto b) _glede na prilastek:_ mnenja smo, naj odstopi; dal mi je znamenje, naj ga počakam...
(source: http://bos.zrc-sazu.si/cgi/a03.exe?name=sskj_testa&expression=ge=naj&hs=1)

Do I need to translate this?


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> In Czech:
> Standard - Řekl mi, abych to udělal. (conditional)
> Nowadays, you often hear: Řekl mi, ať to udělám.
> 
> "Ať" is something like the English "I wish" or Russian "пусть", used in optative constructions.
> Sentences like "he told/wanted/ordered me to do something" are affected by the new phenomenon, and I cannot determine where it comes from. It doesn't seem to mimic any other language that could have influence on Czech.
> Do you observe a similar shift in your languages?
> Thanks,
> Jana


If I got it correctly, Russian equivalent would be:
"Он сказал мне, пусть (бы?) я это сделаю".
We don't speak such a way in Russian nowadays, but strangely enough it resembles formerly (in the 18th century and before) widespread Obligative construction like that:
*А ты бы отнюдь никаких препятствий оному не чинил* = Ты не должен ему мешать никоим образом.
*А князь N отправлялся бы (пускай бы отправлялся) немедля в поход* = Князь N должен немедленно отправиться в поход.
As for contemporary Russian, I don't think contsruction *пусть plus Future* is possible in such context when converting direct speech into indirect.
Он сказал: "*Пусть* он это *сделает*".
Он сказал ему, *чтобы* он это *сделал*.


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## Marga H

In Polish:
Powiedział mi, żebym to zrobił (m ) zrobiła ( f )
Powiedział tobie, żebyś to zrobił / zrobiła
Powiedział jemu, żeby to zrobił
Powiedział jej, żeby to zrobiła
Powiedział dziecku, żeby to zrobiło ( n )
plural:
Powiedział nam, żebyśmy to zrobili / zrobiły
Powiedział wam, żebyście to zrobili / zrobiły
Powiedział im, żeby to zrobili / zrobiły
or:
Powiedział mi, tobie, nam, im, żeby to zrobić ( infinitive ) for every person
If the introductory verb is in present tense ( *mówi *mi, jemu, nam etc ) the second clause doesn't change.


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> If _I got it correctly_, Russian equivalent would be:
> "Он сказал мне, пусть (бы?) я это сделаю".
> 
> As for contemporary Russian, I don't think contsruction *пусть plus Future* is possible in such context when converting direct speech into indirect.
> Он сказал: "*Пусть* он это *сделает*".
> Он сказал ему, *чтобы* он это *сделал*.



Yes, you've it it 'right', Maroseika!   The only comment I wished to make is that I also haven't heard this ''Пусть он это зделает'' for a very long time. Even Mr Chekhov in his novels (and you my fondness for them ) doesn't seem to use it too much. 
However, I believe that expression such as ''Да пусть будет так!'' or something along these lines, are still quite common even nowadays. (do correct me if I'm wrong). Also, I think you could possible say:
*Я сказала ему: пусть приходит, только чтобы цветы не забыл принетси. 

*But I do completely agree with you in the sense that nowadays most people would use ''чтобы'' to express a wish of this kind. 
''_Я сказала ему, чтобы он этого больше никогда не делал._''

P.S. This is like our version of the subjunctive, isn't it?


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> However, I believe that expression such as ''Да пусть будет так!'' or something along these lines, are still quite common even nowadays.


A little correction: Да пусть будет так is impossible.
Да будет так! 
or
Пусть будет так!
By the way, I cannot agree that construction "Пусть/пускай он это сделает" is rare nowadyas: it's very common.



Crescent said:


> But I do completely agree with you in the sense that nowadays most people would use ''чтобы'' to express a wish of this kind.





Crescent said:


> ''_Я сказала ему, чтобы он этого больше никогда не делал._''
> 
> P.S. This is like our version of the subjunctive, isn't it?


Or Conditional?


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> A little correction: Да пусть будет так is impossible.
> Да будет так!
> or
> Пусть будет так!
> By the way, I cannot agree that construction "Пусть/пускай он это сделает" is rare nowadyas: it's very common.
> 
> Or Conditional?



Thank you for your explanations, Maroseika!  Of course, when it comes to these matters - you know a lot more about me that this, so you don't have to say ''No, I'm afraid I don't agree'' because you can just say: ''No, Crescent, that is totally and completely _wrong_. ''  

No, no! I'm sure it's the subjunctive!  I'm not so sure that you and I are on the same wavelenght though.  What I was talking about when I said that was: look at the way the French and Spanish use their subjunctive.
_ Vouloir que + subjonctif_. e.g. Je *veux qu'il le fasse* tout de suite! = Я *хочу, чтобы* он это зделал немедленно! 
Spanish: decir que + subjuntivo e.g. Mi madre *me dice que yo vaya* a la cama ahora. = Моя мама* говорит мне* идти спать сейчас. 
(Although I must admit - doesn't work quite so well in Russian here  Perhaps: ..._Мама сказала мне, чтобы я пошла спать_?) 
That's what I meant: that our ''чтобы'' and the imperfect is exactly like ''que'' and the subjunctive in our dear romance friends!   How cool is that?


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> (Although I must admit - doesn't work quite so well in Russian here  Perhaps: ..._Мама сказала мне, чтобы я пошла спать_?)


Why? Violet phrase seems to me quite nomal.


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## Thomas1

You can also say:
_Kazał mi to zrobić._



Jana337 said:


> In Czech:
> Standard - Řekl mi, abych to udělal. (conditional)
> Nowadays, you often hear: Řekl mi, ať to udělám.
> 
> "Ať" is something like the English "I wish" or Russian "пусть", used in optative constructions.
> 
> Sentences like "he told/wanted/ordered me to do something" are affected by the new phenomenon, and I cannot determine where it comes from. It doesn't seem to mimic any other language that could have influence on Czech.
> 
> Do you observe a similar shift in your languages?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jana


Well, you could use the Polish equivalent (_i.e._ niech) but it's used only for the third person (in this context).
So, the following English sentence would be:
_He told him to do it._
and it would translate into Polish as:
_Niech on to zrobi._


I don't know about Czech but it isn't new in Polish and you hear it from time to time. It is a particle expressing imperative/optative kind of wish.

Tom


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> Why? Violet phrase seems to me quite nomal.


Правда? Вам не режит слух: Моя мама* говорит мне* идти спать сейчас. ?
Наверное, это просто мое тонкое музыкальное ушко.


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## vince

Crescent said:


> Thank you for your explanations, Maroseika!  Of course, when it comes to these matters - you know a lot more about me that this, so you don't have to say ''No, I'm afraid I don't agree'' because you can just say: ''No, Crescent, that is totally and completely _wrong_. ''
> 
> No, no! I'm sure it's the subjunctive!  I'm not so sure that you and I are on the same wavelenght though.  What I was talking about when I said that was: look at the way the French and Spanish use their subjunctive.
> _ Vouloir que + subjonctif_. e.g. Je *veux qu'il le fasse* tout de suite! = Я *хочу, чтобы* он это зделал немедленно!
> Spanish: decir que + subjuntivo e.g. Mi madre *me dice que yo vaya* a la cama ahora. = Моя мама* говорит мне* идти спать сейчас.
> (Although I must admit - doesn't work quite so well in Russian here  Perhaps: ..._Мама сказала мне, чтобы я пошла спать_?)
> That's what I meant: that our ''чтобы'' and the imperfect is exactly like ''que'' and the subjunctive in our dear romance friends!   How cool is that?



I had just finished reading the other thread in this forum about чтобы and the translation that came into my head was "On skazal mne chtoby ya ehto cdelal"

In this sense it resembles Spanish usage more than French, if you translate chtoby as "que + subjunctive":

(El) me dijo *que lo hiciera (yo)*
but French:
Il m'a dit de le faire

French avoids the subjunctive.


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> Правда? Вам не режит слух: Моя мама* говорит мне* идти спать сейчас. ?
> Наверное, это просто мое тонкое музыкальное ушко.


Я имел в виду другую фиолетовую.
Эту бы я, конечно, поправил: Мама говорит мне уже идти спать.
Как видите, без *чтобы* вполне можно обойтись.


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