# Niqqud in handwriting



## aruseni

Could you please help me a bit with Hebrew? How to write niqqud by hand (what is the stroke order for them)?

I've found the stroke order for the letters (here, for example: www levsoftware ​​com/alefbet​.​htm) but not for the niqqud. :(​


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## origumi

See here for example: http://www.qsm.co.il/Hebrew/wniqud.htm (it says "Microsoft Word" but good for any Microsoft Windows application).

---

But I guess that you need Hebrew Support installed on your machine


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## aruseni

No, *origumi*, my question is not about it. It is about handwriting. Using a pen. I asked how exactly should I move pen to write it.

For example:
Which line, horizontal or vertical, should I draw first in a kamatz? Should I draw these two lines from left to right and from top to bottom, respectively?


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## amikama

I don't know if there is a "standard" way to draw the letters and nikkud marks in handwriting. The stroke order is not very important as long as your written Hebrew is clear and legible. (I know people who write א, for example, by drawing first the vertical line, then the semi-circle line to the right.)

Anyway, this is how I personally draw the nikkud marks:

Patah - horizontal line from left to right.
Kamats - same for patah, then vertical line from top to bottom.
Tsere - two dots from left to right.
Segol - same for tsere, then another dot below them.
Kubuts - three dots in diagonal from top-left to bottom-right.
Shva - two dots from top to bottom.
Hatafim - first the nikkud mark, then the shva.

Hope it helps.


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## aruseni

Thank you very much, *amikama*! It really helped.

As I thought (and as I heard on IRC), the order is generally from top to bottom, from left to right. Horizontal lines before vertical lines. The same is in Japanese language.


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## roltan

I don't know if me being left handed has anything to do with it, but I do the horizontal line from right to left. It seems natural perhaps 'cos the hand moves in that direction anyway. Of course since english is my native language, i'm more used to drawing T, and that I draw from left to right, though that's also the direction the hand moves in to write it. 

My patach kamatz sere and segol, are all drawn right to left, unlike amika. 
But I do do them top to bottom.

of course, the direction of the kubutz has to be left to right when you're going from the top as I do so that's same as amika. 

I doubt it is related to what hand you write with.. though it could be. 

As an interesting side note-

Writing Hebrew suits left handers.
left handers often have seriously messy english writing, but very neat hebrew writing.

Writing English suits right handers. 

perhaps it's to do with having or not having to adjust your wrist, since the natural position smudges what you write
I think it's also because moving the wrist towards the fingertips interferes with the area where you hold the pen.. this happens when lefties write english or righties write hebrew.


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## aruseni

I heard (about Japanese/Chinese calligraphy) that the top to bottom and left right directions come from writing on silk.


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## roltan

aruseni said:


> I heard (about Japanese/Chinese calligraphy) that the top to bottom and left right directions come from writing on silk.



then no doubt it'd be from right handers writing on silk!


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## hadronic

amikama said:


> Patah - horizontal line from left to right.
> Kamats - same for patah, then vertical line from top to bottom.
> Tsere - two dots from left to right.
> Segol - same for tsere, then another dot below them.
> Kubuts - three dots in diagonal from top-left to bottom-right.
> Shva - two dots from top to bottom.
> Hatafim - first the nikkud mark, then the shva.
> 
> Hope it helps.


 
Thanks a lot, it helped a lot !
I'm glad to see that Israeli also draw strokes from left to right (that is, reverse to Hebrew writing direction).
In fact, whereas I rapidly caught on the direction of strokes for normal letters, I was still drawing the nikkud the Latin way (as if ָ was a T, ֵ was a ¨ , etc..) and was struggling to get the proper habit to draw them in the writing direction (that is, right to left).
But now it's OK


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## hadronic

origumi said:


> See here for example: http://www.qsm.co.il/Hebrew/wniqud.htm (it says "Microsoft Word" but good for any Microsoft Windows application).


 
One question about that : it's quite cumbersome to write nikkud on keyboards. You need to strike/unstrike CapsLock at_ each_ nikkud ! How do you actually do ? You type first the entire word or sentence without nikkud, and then go back the begining and write all the nikkuds keeping the CapsLock on ?


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## Maayan

If it's a short sentence then I usually finish typing it and then go back to add Nikkud.
If it's a text longer then a sentence then I usually go back after one or two words wach time to add Nikkud.


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## Sevensky

** NEW QUESTION - threads merged by moderator * *

I got the problem while learning 
the vowel notes.
I just couldn't found any guide on writing the
vowel notes.
Anyone got any material one it ?

What's more , would people write the cursive 
Hebrew with vowel notes?


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## Maayan

Hi Sevensky,

Look for Niqqud on Wikipedia 

I think most people don't bother with the niqqud at all. I think most people will use niqqud only to make sure a specific word is read correctly.


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## Sevensky

Hello Maayan
I should had made my question more clear.

I know what  the Hebrew vowel points looks like and where
they were placed.But i still have questions:

1.Should i add my Niqquds immediately or after i made the whole word?
2.Should I  made the cross of Patah from right to left?
3.Should the Kamatz be made the downstroke first or cross(a dot?) first?
4.And what about the order of the five dots of the segol.


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## OsehAlyah

Sevensky said:


> Hello Maayan
> I should had made my question more clear.
> 
> I know what  the Hebrew vowel points looks like and where
> they were placed.But i still have questions:
> 
> 1.Should i add my Niqquds immediately or after i made the whole word?
> 2.Should I  made the cross of Patah from right to left?
> 3.Should the Kamatz be made the downstroke first or cross(a dot?) first?
> 4.And what about the order of the five dots of the segol.


These questions have been discussed before on this forum and it was determined that it's pretty much a matter of personal style. There's no defined system for doing it. Also lefties tend to do it differently from righties, if I remember correctly.
Also, from what I understand niqqudot are rarely used in Israel.

HTH


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