# Use of Spanish in replying to threads



## Stiklas

Hello Everybody!

I was wondering why I keep running into Latin languages (Spanish in particular) being used for several replies at a time in non-spanish forums? It seems that if one person posted something in English and in Spanish, a spanish-only section of the thread seems to evolve... Some of us would like to understand the rest of the conversation as well!... This doesin't seem to be happening with other languages, or at least not nearly as much...

Does this have to do with the number of spanish speakers using WR? If so, then shouldin't we all be respectfull to those of us that do not speak spanish or speak it poorly? This, of course, is in regard only to the non-spanish forums...

Thanks!,
-A-


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## danielfranco

I suppose that as long as it's not a forum that exclusively requires the use of any particular language, then people can and should answer in any language, in the hopes that someone, somewhere might understand them. More power to them, but I agree that, in order to reach a wider audience, it might be advisable to reply in English.

Preferably Standard English, I presume...

D


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## Argónida

When you use a non-specific forum, you are supposed to use any language, that what you prefer. Besides, not everybody knows English, so people write in the language they know, their native language or whatever. There are no rules about it. Why English is supposed to be the "lingua franca" here? Why you presume everybody has to know English?


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## Seanydizzle

To be fair, I think that the onus is on the readers of a forum post to understand the language in which a post in written, rather than on the contributors to satisfy the needs of those reading it.  Therefore, I suppose that someone who takes the time to participate in the forums should feel free to respond in whatever language they feel most comfortable, and then, if they are feeling especially courteous, to go the extra mile and provide a translation in English, French, or whatever language they would like to see it in.  Millions of people are becoming connected to the internet and participating in the "wiki-revolution", and while I sympathize with someone not understanding the language in which someone contributes (I certainly would certainly be at a disadvantage if all the forums were written in arabic or korean), English is not the official language of the Internet.  I hope this does not seem rude, because it is a fair discussion to bring up and something people should talk about...so cheers to you for that.


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## xebonyx

I somewhat sympathize with the issue being raised here. I guess the mods are the ones who control the bounds of what is spoken within that forum? 

But I think it's because English is so pervasive in most cultures around the world (you virtually find it's presence everywhere) that it isn't asking much for those in the forum to attempt asking a question in English. Even if your English is limited, you don't have hurt yourself ie. "What is the negated copulae in the verbal form of blah blah blah?" A simple "How do I say," "What does this mean", etc. would suffice, and the addition "And sorry for my 'poor' ___insert language here___" helps the reader know to clearly explain the answer in a way that isn't entirely academic. As I'd assume, same goes for the other "This language only" forums. Remember, it pushes learners to try to learn the language extensively in order to more effectively communicate with others in the monolingual forums.


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## cubaMania

> ...it isn't asking much for those in the forum to attempt asking a question in English...


Good grief.  What about participants whose native language is French and who are here to learn Spanish?  or Koreans leaning Italian? or Russians learning German?  How could one possibly justify insisting that they conduct discussions in English?

(Many, many, many people in the world do not speak English.)


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## Stiklas

Thank you all for your responses. I was mainly wondering about forums that are supposed to be for everyone, like the "congrats Pages", "Cultural Discussions" and alike, and then only when a discussions seems to evolve... Being native of Lithuanian (a language hardly anyone speaks ), I do not think English should be the default for the whole of WR, and I do know the frustrations of being expected to "just know it", just because I live here...

I understand it is a double-edge sword, since those forums are for everyone... This is why I started the discussion I guess... Should we try to translate the main points to english for everyone, and help those that can't? Or should we leave it up to the elitness of each individual? Again, this is for those forums that are not language-specific...


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## e.ma

But in fact, if they really are *not language-specific*, why should everybody *specifically* speak English?


(That's why I was proposing Chinese; lingua franca: yes; but not necessarily English just because it is the language _you_ know: there are others more widely spoken)


"Everyone" shouldn't just mean "English speakers"


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## xebonyx

cubaMania said:


> Good grief.  What about participants whose native language is French and who are here to learn Spanish?  or Koreans leaning Italian? or Russians learning German?  How could one possibly justify insisting that they conduct discussions in English?
> 
> (Many, many, many people in the world do not speak English.)



What are _you_ talking about? Before you get even angrier, I'm not defending English as a lingua franca for WR,fisrt off. Why would I be on this site if I wanted to force people to only speak English? That's not the objective of WR, and as far as I'm concerned makes absolutely no sense. I was using English in that example because English is the language that I happen to know. I'd be happy to reedit it and include Italian, Spanish and French versions, but I'd figured people would have gotten my point the first time.

You seemed to miss what I wrote later on about mutually attempting to learn others languages. So those of us who natively speak English shouldnt be complaining that forums are strictly in other languages. We all have to work on our privilege.


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## Nanon

Stiklas, I suppose your initial question refers to the Cultural forum, which is multilingual as defined in its rules.

I would not qualify the use of languages other than English as _disrespectful_ towards people who don't speak those languages - unless we can also rate the general use of English as _disrespectful_ towards people who don't speak English. But we know better here in WR forums, don't we?

IMHO if you accept humble personal opinions - I am grateful for replies to my posts in any language I understand, even if it is not the language I used in my post. And I also accept replies in other languages but I might have to request help, hoping that a benevolent soul will translate the answer for me (or will check my profile to find a matching language pair).

Of course, I am lucky - I have both English and Spanish . And I use (my poor) English whenever I need to get a wider audience. But it will be very frustrating if I have to post a cross-country cultural question about, say, Eastern Europe in the Slavic forum instead of sharing it with all... (plus, in Eastern Europe, not everyone is a Slav) - just an example.


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## Tagarela

Hello,

I understand Stiklas. I think he is not saying that people should not post in Spanish or in other languages, but only to use the language that the thread´s creator used. Well, it makes some sense, but sometimes it is not possible, or the usage of other language may be better to explain certain things.

It would be interesting if we could have somekind of survery to find out what are the most comprehensed languages here. I mean, those that people can read, not necessarily that people are able to write well in. 

But for new topics, I believe that anylanguage is possible, of course, the prefenrece is English followed by Spanish, but if you want to use Quechua or Icelandic - I have nothing against it. 

Good bye.:

ps: Quechua and Icelandic are only random examples...no prejudice against them, by the way, both must be interesting.


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## Kelly B

I'm not writing in an official capacity here, just telling you what I think.

I think it is absolutely acceptable for people to post in the language in which they are most comfortable. It is the best way to be completely sure you've said exactly what you mean, with the nuances you intend to convey. I have a fair bit of experience composing posts in my second language, and yet I'm still not always certain that the tone is exactly what I want - is the level of formality right? Could this choice of phrase be misinterpreted? I actually worry less about spelling and grammar, although I make mistakes with those, too.

I think most of us are very forgiving of spelling and grammar errors from non-native speakers, but in forums that accept many languages, the topics are frequently sensitive. If you're fairly skilled, ironically, you're at an even greater risk of offending someone with a badly-chosen phrase, because the expectations are higher than if you had made a dozen errors. I've seen plenty of examples of someone causing offense with the most innocent intentions.

I don't speak or write in Spanish. I admit it: this is the one time I'll plop a paragraph into an on-line translator. I know perfectly well that the result will include some garbled nonsense, but it's good enough to satisfy my curiosity about where the conversation is going.


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## timpeac

Again like Kelly I don't write in an official capacity here but in forums that are not specifically for one or other language any can be used it seems to me. If a subdiscussion develops in, say, Spanish then those participants need to be - and probably are - aware of the fact that not everyone will understand it. That is less likely in English because, rightly or wrongly, English is one of (if not _the_) major language on the internet - but it's not the lingua franca in these forums.

In fact, I can think of some instances where it's an annoyance. When I see someone ask a question in a certain language and a native of that language reply in English I find it annoying because it seems like a) a slap to the person asking the question as if it had not been formed well enough to merit an answer in the native speaker's tongue and b) because I would like for my own knowledge to see the foreign expression that would be used to answer that question. People constantly moan at Anglophones for not making enough effort to learn another language but often, it seems to me, when they try they only meet responses in English anyway.


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## Loob

Stiklas, I'm really not sure I understand your point here.

In forums like Cultural Discussions where all languages are permitted, surely (ahem) all languages are permitted?

People writing in Spanish will accept that only those who understand Spanish will understand their posts.

The same is true for people writing in English or Welsh or Urdu - or Lithuanian


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## Alxmrphi

cubaMania said:


> Good grief.  What about participants whose native language is French and who are here to learn Spanish?  or Koreans leaning Italian? or Russians learning German?  How could one possibly justify insisting that they conduct discussions in English?
> 
> (Many, many, many people in the world do not speak English.)



Couldn't agree more


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## e.ma

timpeac said:


> English is one of (if not _the_) major language on the internet - but it's not the lingua franca in these forums.



I agree with you, but I keep thinking the most used language on the internet is Chinese...


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## timpeac

e.ma said:


> I agree with you, but I keep thinking the most used language on the internet is Chinese...


Not according to this.


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## xebonyx

Alex_Murphy said:


> Couldn't agree more



Wow. My post was lost on a couple of people I give up. But I also agree.


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## Loob

xebonyx said:


> Wow. My post was lost on a couple of people I give up. But I also agree.


Xebonyx, I think the problem with your post 5 is that you were talking about using English in the English Only forum, whereas the thread is (as I understand it) about non-language-specific forums like Cultural Discussions.

I misread it the first time, too.


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## Alxmrphi

Loob said:


> Xebonyx, I think the problem with your post 5 is that you were talking about using English in the English Only forum, whereas the thread is (as I understand it) about non-language-specific forums like Cultural Discussions.
> 
> I misread it the first time, too.



If you re-read it aswell you would see that it doesn't mention using English in the English only forum at all.

If a Russian wants to come here and learn Italian, like the previous poster said, why should they have to ask a question in English, if they don't know English that well, just for the benefit of others, if someone speaks Spanish as a native language and has a complicated question about French, if you don't understand it then sorry but it is a case of TS, like if it is in CD and you don't understand it, I always browse through threads that go into Spanish and I think "I don't know Spanish, but these people are conversing in Spanish because it is what they know best, who am I to judge?" so it just tempts me to want to learn Spanish, but in the meantime, I in absolutely no way can ask them to post their discussion in English just for my sake.


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## Loob

Alex_Murphy said:


> If you re-read it aswell you would see that it doesn't mention using English in the English only forum at all.


I have re-read post 5 as you suggested, Alex_Murphy.

The clue, for me, lies in the sentence





xebonyx said:


> As I'd assume, same goes for the other "This language only" forums.


 But perhaps I'm wrong. Please don't come back to me on this. Xebonyx can speak for himself.


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## Sepia

I often see English suddenly used in threads that started in other languages like some of the Scandinavian languages or German. Nobody seems to have any problem with that. Why should there be any problem with Spanish or other "free languages" used in a thread that started in English? I you can't read it, you can't read it, so you don't. If the writer couldn't write it in English, you wouldn't have read it anyway, if he were not allowed to write it in any other language.

What is so special about this happening in a thread that starts in English?


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## e.ma

timpeac said:


> Not according to this.


 
(About English on the internet)
You are right, I was wrong. I guess I have been reading too much Chinese news lately.


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## Luceni

Stiklas said:


> Does this have to do with the number of spanish speakers using WR? If so, then shouldin't we all be respectfull to those of us that do not speak spanish or speak it poorly? This, of course, is in regard only to the non-spanish forums...
> -A-



This have to do with the number of Spanish speakers in the West (Europe + America). Several hundred millions. With respect, Spanish is not Lithuanian.


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## Miguel Antonio

Stiklas said:


> It seems that if one person posted something in English and in Spanish, a spanish-only section of the thread seems to evolve...


 I suppose that if the thread is opened in both Spanish and English, you may answer in either one or both languages. Were I to reply to *this* thread in Spanish, then I would understand your concern 

Cheers

MA


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## Grefsen

Sepia said:


> I often see English suddenly used in threads that started in other languages like some of the Scandinavian languages or German. Nobody seems to have any problem with that.



Last year there was one occasion when I expressed a concern in the Nordic Forum about not being able to understand a discussion taking place between several  foreros that was entirely in Norwegian. 

They were actually kind enough to provide an English summary for me so that it was then possible for me to follow the rest of the discussion that took place in the thread.


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## Grefsen

Sepia said:


> Why should there be any problem with Spanish or other "free languages" used in a thread that started in English? I you can't read it, you can't read it, so you don't. If the writer couldn't write it in English, you wouldn't have read it anyway, if he were not allowed to write it in any other language.
> 
> What is so special about this happening in a thread that starts in English?



I have to admit that at times it has been frustrating for me not being able to fully understand some of the discussions that take place in the *Cultural Discussions  Forum *when the language that is being used in a particular thread changes several times.   In the past when I haven't been able to understand replies made in languages I'm not fluent in such as *español*, I would typically just stop reading the thread. 

I'm wondering if in general it would be appropriate for me to politely request either an English translation or summary so that it would still be possible for me to understand the rest of the discussion that is taking place in the thread?

Thanks/*Gracias!*


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## JamesM

My Spanish is not very good, either, Grefsen.  What I've often done is to simply copy the text in Spanish and paste it in the Altavista Babelfish translation web page:

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

This is a simple utility for people like me who are not very fluent in a language.  The translations are far from perfect.  Sometimes a word here or there isn't even translated.  Still, I can usually get the sense of what the person is saying from the translation provided.

I figure it's not their job to provide me with a translation, just as I wouldn't expect them to ask me to provide a translation into Spanish of what I had to say.  They wouldn't like the results if I tried.


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## estro

JamesM said:


> My Spanish is not very good, either, Grefsen.  What I've often done is to simply copy the text in Spanish and paste it in the Altavista Babelfish translation web page:
> 
> 
> This is a simple utility for people like me who are not very fluent in a language.  The translations are far from perfect.  Sometimes a word here or there isn't even translated.  Still, I can usually get the sense of what the person is saying from the translation provided.


I think this is a really good idea. Automatic translator web pages are criticised quite a lot (often by people with a vested interest: professional translators), but if you just want to get the general idea of a text then they are extremely useful. I use the Babelfish page for Russian and German texts, and in my opinion it works very well.


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## rogelio

Alex_Murphy said:


> If you re-read it aswell you would see that it doesn't mention using English in the English only forum at all.
> 
> If a Russian wants to come here and learn Italian, like the previous poster said, why should they have to ask a question in English, if they don't know English that well, just for the benefit of others, if someone speaks Spanish as a native language and has a complicated question about French, if you don't understand it then sorry but it is a case of TS, like if it is in CD and you don't understand it, I always browse through threads that go into Spanish and I think "I don't know Spanish, but these people are conversing in Spanish because it is what they know best, who am I to judge?" so it just tempts me to want to learn Spanish, but in the meantime, I in absolutely no way can ask them to post their discussion in English just for my sake.



Exactly!  Although my native language is English, I like posting in Spanish and reading posts in Spanish because it helps me to continue to improve my language skills.  I also look in on the Portuguese forum for the same reason.  I hope everyone will answer my posts in whatever language they feel most comfortable.  Then it is up to _me_ to try and understand the answer.
The whole purpose of these forums is learning!  You can't learn a language if you're never exposed to it.

Rogelio


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## lizzeymac

I think Rogelio expresses it very well.  
If I am reading an interesting thread that includes posts in several languages it spurs me to work on my Spanish, French, etc.  
As an alternative to opening a new tab for a translation site, Firefox has several translation extensions that can translate the page you are reading directly or just selected words or paragraphs - I use Foxlingo.  
Yes, translation sites are imperfect and there will be glitches but it will give you a starting point.
If you need help with a particular idiom or set phrase do a search or post it in the appropriate Forum and learn something new.
That's why we come here, right?


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## Grefsen

JamesM said:


> My Spanish is not very good, either, Grefsen.  What I've often done is to simply copy the text in Spanish and paste it in the Altavista Babelfish translation web page:
> 
> http://babelfish.altavista.com/
> 
> This is a simple utility for people like me who are not very fluent in a language.  The translations are far from perfect.  Sometimes a word here or there isn't even translated.  Still, I can usually get the sense of what the person is saying from the translation provided.
> 
> I figure it's not their job to provide me with a translation, just as I wouldn't expect them to ask me to provide a translation into Spanish of what I had to say.  They wouldn't like the results if I tried.



Thanks/Gracias for this link *JamesM.  

* I went ahead and bookmarked the *babelfish* site and have used it once in an attempt to understand the first post of a WR thread that was in *español.  *This first experience using *babelfish *was that I was able to  "get the sense of what the person is saying from the translation" even though the translation was "far from perfect" with "a word here or there" that wasn't "even translated."  

What it comes down to for me personally is a question of how much time I have available to spend at this site.  Since I have the desire to learn *español*, whenever time isn't a major issue for me, then I will make the effort to understand the posts in *español *that were made in threads that were of interest for me.  However, if I'm very short on time then I will have to skip threads that are started in *español *as well as posts in *español *that are made in threads that contain mostly English posts.


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## Etcetera

I feel OK about threads in which half the replies are written in Spanish. I've never studied Spanish (I hope to learn in one day, though), but I understand it a bit, so I can follow the discussion, and sometimes I even dare to add something to it - in English, of course.

Some people who reply in Spanish also add English translation of what they have just written. I think it's an admirable practice.


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