# Persian: half



## James Bates

I know that "half" can be translated as nesf-e or nim. However, are they interchangeable? For example, are the following all correct?

nesf-e portuqaal/nim portuqaal (half of the orange)
nesf-e saa'at/nim saa'at (half an hour)
do saa'at va nesf/do saa'at va nim (two and a half hours)
nesf-e mardom/nim mardom (half the people)
nesf-e ketaab/nim ketaab (half the book)
nesf-e kilu/nim kilu (half a kilogram)
nesf-e khaane/nim khaane (half the house)
nesf-e shab/nim shab (half the night)
nesf-e pul/nim pul (half the money)
panj-o nesf/panj-o nim (five and a half)
nesf-e raah/nim raah (half the way)


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## Treaty

_nim_ means "half" and is usually used as a prefix (in certain compounds) or for measurements. _nesf _(or _nime _نیمه that is often formal) means "half" and is almost always followed by an ezaafe. It is not (or maybe rarely) used for measurement. In other terms, their usage rarely overlap. None of your example pairs are correct. Below, I put only the correct parts:

nesf-e port*e*qaal (half of the orange)
nim saa'at (half an hour)
do saa'at *o* nim (two and a half hours)
nesf-e mardom (half of the people)
nesf-e ketaab (half of the book)
nim kilu (half a kilogram)
nesf-e khaane (half of the house)
nesf-e shab (midnight/ late in night)
nesf-e pul (half of the money)
panj-o nesf*i* (5.5 for counting) / panj-o nim (5.5 for measurements/unit)
nesf-e raah (half of the way)


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## PersoLatin

Treaty said:


> nesf-e port*e*qaal (half of the orange)
> nim saa'at (half an hour)
> do saa'at *o* nim (two and a half hours)
> nesf-e mardom (half of the people)
> nesf-e ketaab (half of the book)
> nim kilu (half a kilogram)
> nesf-e khaane (half of the house)
> nesf-e shab (midnight/ late in night)
> nesf-e pul (half of the money)
> panj-o nesf*i* (5.5 for counting) / panj-o nim (5.5 for measurements/unit)
> nesf-e raah (half of the way)



Hi Treaty, I'm sure you are not saying these are incorrect(?):

nimé or niméye port*e*qaal (half of the orange)
nimé or niméye mardom (half of the people)
nimé or niméye ketaab (half of the book)
nimé or niméye khaane (half of the house)
nimé shab (midnight/ late in night)
nimé or niméye pul (half of the money)
nimé or niméye raah (half of the way)


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## Treaty

Of course not. I said _nesf_ = _nim*e*_ but not _nim_. All your examples are _nime_.


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## soheil1

James Bates said:


> I know that "half" can be translated as nesf-e or nim. However, are they interchangeable? For example, are the following all correct?
> 
> nesf-e portuqaal/nim portuqaal (half of the orange)
> nesf-e saa'at/nim saa'at (half an hour)
> do saa'at va nesf/do saa'at va nim (two and a half hours)
> nesf-e mardom/nim mardom (half the people)
> nesf-e ketaab/nim ketaab (half the book)
> nesf-e kilu/nim kilu (half a kilogram)
> nesf-e khaane/nim khaane (half the house)
> nesf-e shab/nim shab (half the night)
> nesf-e pul/nim pul (half the money)
> panj-o nesf/panj-o nim (five and a half)
> nesf-e raah/nim raah (half the way)



The usage is different, although نیم can mean نصف

like the following poem from Rumi
این سوم هست آدمی زاد و بشر
نیمِ او زفرشته و نیمیش خر

or combinations like نیم ساعت, نیم چاشت are set phrases

Also there is a word نصفه نیمه


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## colognial

Hello, James Bates. I think نیم can more readily find its way into compound words. But basically there is not much difference between نیمه and نصفه. For instance, to say 'half of an orange', you may opt for نیمه ی پرتقال just as you may choose to say نصفه ی پرتقال.


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## James Bates

colognial said:


> Hello, James Bates. I think نیم can more readily find its way into compound words. But basically there is not much difference between نیمه and نصفه. For instance, to say 'half of an orange', you may opt for نیمه ی پرتقال just as you may choose to say نصفه ی پرتقال.



نصفِ پرتقال, not نصفۂ ہرتقال.
Nesf-e porteqaal, not nesfe-ye porteqaal


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## colognial

I see. They are interchangeable, except when you're dealing with a set phrase or compound, such as 'panj (saa'at) o nim', 'nim daraje/kilo/metre', nimdaar', and 'nimband'. Also, the _kasre_ does not disappear when 'nesf' changes to 'nim'; example: nesfe ketaab, nime ketaab. Finally, most of the time the phrase is already fixed in the vernacular, so it might be wise to play it by ear!


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## James Bates

Okay. By the way, is nesfe-ye porteqaal as correct as nesf-e porteqaal?


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## Jamshed Aslam

So how would you say the following:

1. three and a half kilos
2. half of seven is three and a half
3. half the topic
4. half the price

Based on what Treaty said I'm guessing:

1. se kilo va nim (not nesf)
2. nesf-e haft se-o nesfist (نصفیست is a contraction of نصفی است)
3. nesf-e mawzu'
4. nesf-e qaymat


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## colognial

James Bates said:


> Okay. By the way, is nesfe-ye porteqaal as correct as nesf-e porteqaal?


They're both correct, and very similar in meaning. Nesfe portoghaal tends to be more indefinite, the generic phrase, half of an orange per se. Nesfeye portoghaal is more likely to be used in a sentence where the speaker and the listener both know which halved orange exactly is being referred to. Actually I admit I am not sure I've got it right, but think of the difference, while giving out a recipe, between 'squeeze half an orange over the cooked fish' and 'decorate the dish with the orange halves'. Does this make any sense to you, James?


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## colognial

Jamshed Aslam said:


> So how would you say the following:
> 
> 1. three and a half kilos
> 2. half of seven is three and a half
> 3. half the topic
> 4. half the price
> 
> Based on what Treaty said I'm guessing:
> 
> 1. se kilo va nim (not nesf)
> 2. nesf-e haft se-o nesfist (نصفیست is a contraction of نصفی است)
> 3. nesf-e mawzu'
> 4. nesf-e qaymat



You've got it right, almost, Jamshed Aslam.
1. se kilu o nim 
2. nesfe haft mishavad se o nim
3. nesfe mawzu'
4. nesfe qaymat


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## James Bates

colognial said:


> They're both correct, and very similar in meaning. Nesfe portoghaal tends to be more indefinite, the generic phrase, half of an orange per se. Nesfeye portoghaal is more likely to be used in a sentence where the speaker and the listener both know which halved orange exactly is being referred to. Actually I admit I am not sure I've got it right, but think of the difference, while giving out a recipe, between 'squeeze half an orange over the cooked fish' and 'decorate the dish with the orange halves'. Does this make any sense to you, James?



Yeah, I get it. In the sentence "decorate the dish with orange halves" you would say nesfe-ye porteqaal.


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## Jamshed Aslam

colognial said:


> You've got it right, almost, Jamshed Aslam.
> 1. se kilu o nim
> 2. nesfe haft mishavad se o nim
> 3. nesfe mawzu'
> 4. nesfe qaymat



But my textbook has the following:

نصفِ سہ، یک و ۔۔۔ است.

Shouldn't it be است instead of می شود? Furthermore, shouldn't it be se-o nesfi, as Treaty mentioned above? He wrote: panj-o nesf*i* (5.5 for counting) / panj-o nim (5.5 for measurements/unit)


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## colognial

Jamshed Aslam said:


> But my textbook has the following:
> 
> نصفِ سہ، یک و ۔۔۔ است.
> 
> Shouldn't it be است instead of می شود? Furthermore, shouldn't it be se-o nesfi, as Treaty mentioned above? He wrote: panj-o nesf*i* (5.5 for counting) / panj-o nim (5.5 for measurements/unit)



OK, have it your way, Jamshed Aslam! نصف سه یک و نیم است is fine. We often say "دو و دو می شود چهار", but "دو و دو چهار است" is acceptable, too; there's nothing wrong with it at all.

I think Treaty and I might just end up agreeing to disagree on that last point!


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## soheil1

Jamshed Aslam said:


> So how would you say the following:
> 
> 1. three and a half kilos
> 2. half of seven is three and a half
> 3. half the topic
> 4. half the price
> 
> Based on what Treaty said I'm guessing:
> 
> 1. se kilo va nim (not nesf)
> 2. nesf-e haft se-o nesfist (نصفیست is a contraction of نصفی است)
> 3. nesf-e mawzu'
> 4. nesf-e qaymat



۱. (سه کیلو و نیم)
۲. (نصف هفت میشه سه و نسم)
۳. نصف موضوع/عنوان
۴. نصف قیمت


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## soheil1

Jamshed Aslam said:


> But my textbook has the following:
> 
> نصفِ سہ، یک و ۔۔۔ است.
> 
> Shouldn't it be است instead of می شود? Furthermore, shouldn't it be se-o nesfi, as Treaty mentioned above? He wrote: panj-o nesf*i* (5.5 for counting) / panj-o nim (5.5 for measurements/unit)


You are doing a calculation. That's why.
Instead, you may hear می کنه، with/without به عبارتی


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