# Bella luce



## suky

Hi, I want to name my new boat beautiful light in Italian. 
is Bella Luce correct ? and what is the proper pronunciation for luce ? 
many thanks, Suky


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## DDT

suky said:
			
		

> Hi, I want to name my new boat beautiful light in Italian.
> is Bella Luce correct ? and what is the proper pronunciation for luce ?
> many thanks, Suky



Hi Suky,
Welcome to WR forums 

"Bella luce" is correct, let me just suggest you 2 variations: "Luce radiosa" ("radiant light") or "Splendida luce" ("shining light")

DDT


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## suky

thank you DDT. I love those but bella luce is simple and short but I will think about them. What would angel light be ? 
suky


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## DDT

suky said:
			
		

> thank you DDT. I love those but bella luce is simple and short but I will think about them. What would angel light be ?
> suky



"Luce angelica" which would actually sound quite odd in Italian...

DDT


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## Tina F.

Good morning to all!
I have just discovered this site, and am amazed at what you can learn here. Thank you to the providers!
I would like a phonetic pronounciation of the word "luce", as I am considering "Bella Luce" (beautiful light) as a name for my stained glass business. I just need to be certain of the correct pronounciation before ordering business cards, etc.
Any other Italian suggestions for beautiful glass, light, etc. would be appreciated. Many thanks for your help!

Tina F. in Batavia, Ohio, USA


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## lsp

Hi, Tina. Welcome! As a compatriot (I'm from the States, too) I think you'll get it if I say luce is pronounced Loo' chay. Feel free to ask for more if that doesn't do it for you, though.


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## Tina F.

Thank you, Isp!  My husband and I were hoping "loo'-chay" would be correct, as we want something that "flows" off the tongue, and has a good connotation.
  Thanks for your quick reply!

Tina F.


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## lsp

Tina F. said:
			
		

> Thank you, Isp!  My husband and I were hoping "loo'-chay" would be correct, as we want something that "flows" off the tongue, and has a good connotation.
> Thanks for your quick reply!
> 
> Tina F.


Bella Luce is a nice name (for stained glass business) and it does have a great sound. It flows, as you said. Good luck!


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## winnie

I think you'll get it if I say luce is pronounced Loo' chay. 

lsp i'm not at ease with phonetic transcriptions could you help me?

think please to the word 'cherry'. is 'chay' the right phonetic for the first half of that?


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## laratri

winnie said:
			
		

> I think you'll get it if I say luce is pronounced Loo' chay.
> 
> lsp i'm not at ease with phonetic transcriptions could you help me?
> 
> think please to the word 'cherry'. is 'chay' the right phonetic for the first half of that?


 
I'm no good at phonetic transcriptione either, but "cherry" can't be pronounced chay-ree....

Lara


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## winnie

laratri said:
			
		

> I'm no good at phonetic transcriptione either, but "cherry" can't be pronounced chay-ree....
> 
> Lara


 
so IMHO luce has to be pronounced like loo+che(rry)


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## Vanzo Scheì

winnie said:
			
		

> so IMHO luce has to be pronounced like loo+che(rry)


 
I don't agree, because the first half of "cherry" is "che", as in "check".  The vowel is closed.  The vowel in "luce", on the other hand, is open.  Think of the word "chafe".


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## Jana337

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> I don't agree, because the first half of "cherry" is "che", as in "check". The vowel is closed. The vowel in "luce", on the other hand, is open. Think of the word "chafe".



I may be wrong (in the worst case in both languages ) but the way I pronounce luCE is certainly closer to CHErry than CHAY.

Jana


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## winnie

exactly! the vowel is closed! 'e' in 'luce' IS CLOSED not open! or at least this is my opinion!!


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## Vanzo Scheì

Well...it isn't closed in the English sense. This is a really tricky topic. The Italian accent in English tends to make the "e" in "cherry", "check", et cetera more open than it should be. So in this way, you are right...but if you tell us to pronounce the final "e" in "luce" like the "e" in "cherry", then we will say something like the Spanish word "lucha".

To give a common example of this problem, think of the words "beach" and "bitch" (pardon my French).  Italians tend to say them as if they are the same word, when in fact there is a subtle (and yet important) difference between the open vowel of "beach" and the closed vowel of "bitch".


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## Jana337

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> Well...it isn't closed in the English sense. This is a really tricky topic. The Italian accent in English tends to make the "e" in "cherry", "check", et cetera more open than it should be. So in this way, you are right...but if you tell us to pronounce the final "e" in "luce" like the "e" in "cherry", then we will say something like the Spanish word "lucha".


Hmm... I don't know. As a non-Italian, I hardly emulate their accent when speaking English. Moreover, I clicked on the pronunciation of both "luce" and "cherry" in my dictionaries. They sound the same or close.

Jana


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## winnie

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> This is a really tricky topic.


 
too right!

Vanzo, you are Italian in some way so you can understand me when i say i'm afraid that 'chay' would be like to add a little (Italian spoken) 'i' at the end of the word: please try to read it with Italian accent 'lucei'. 
or if you prefer like an American 'A' as in a,b,c...

am i right?


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## lsp

I agree with all that's been said, but that's _us_ - someone with no Italian would be perplexed by this difference. I felt I had to take that into consideration.


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## Vanzo Scheì

You have a dictionary with audio?  Che figata!

In this case, being able to hear each other would help a lot.  But any of you all who have dictionaries with audio should try to heard the difference between "cherry" (closed) and "chafe" (open).

For fellow English speakers- download the song "Luce" by Elisa, which is a great song in any case, and she says the word in question a number of times.


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## Vanzo Scheì

winnie said:
			
		

> too right!
> 
> 
> 
> Vanzo, you are Italian in some way so you can understand me when i say i'm afraid that 'chay' would be like to add a little (Italian spoken) 'i' at the end of the word: please try to read it with Italian accent 'lucei'.
> 
> or if you prefer like an American 'A' as in a,b,c...
> 
> 
> 
> am i right?


 


Yes, I hear what you are saying. In English, we tend to elongate vowels and add other sounds to them.  Think of a New Yorker saying "talk" or a Texan say "told". With an English accent in Italian, the word "luce" might sound like "lucei". The vowel still needs to be open, but an English speaker should make an effort to produce only the "e" sound and not a "ei" sound.

Probably the best way to explain is pretty simple after all. Just say the letter "A", as suggested by Winnie. Of course, going to Italy to hear them speak is a good option, too!


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## Jana337

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> You have a dictionary with audio?  Che figata!
> 
> In this case, being able to hear each other would help a lot. But any of you all who have dictionaries with audio should try to heard the difference between "cherry" (closed) and "chafe" (open).
> 
> For fellow English speakers- download the song "Luce" by Elisa, which is a great song in any case, and she says the word in question a number of times.



The dictionary is on the internet. If you feel like overcoming the traps of my mother tongue, go for it:

http://slovniky.centrum.cz/

write *luce* in the small window, choose *italsko-český* and click on *Přeložit*, then simply click on the audio icone   
next, write *cherry,* choose *anglicko-český* and repeat the procedure 
 Have fun!

Jana


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## winnie

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> For fellow English speakers- download the song "Luce" by Elisa, which is a great song in any case, and she says the word in question a number of times.


 
please Vanzo i don't want to be unpleasant to you but... you made
the worst example one can do  Elisa is from Monfalcone (like my beloved wife!) near Gorizia and Trieste. it's a well-known fact that 'that people' tend to pronounce the 'e' as large as possible 

just to make a little example friday = venerdì for them is vènerdi...

this fact is an on-going source of mockery between my bride and me!


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## Isotta

Vanzo Scheì said:
			
		

> Well...it isn't closed in the English sense. This is a really tricky topic. The Italian accent in English tends to make the "e" in "cherry", "check", et cetera more open than it should be. So in this way, you are right...but if you tell us to pronounce the final "e" in "luce" like the "e" in "cherry", then we will say something like the Spanish word "lucha".
> 
> To give a common example of this problem, think of the words "beach" and "bitch" (pardon my French). Italians tend to say them as if they are the same word, when in fact there is a subtle (and yet important) difference between the open vowel of "beach" and the closed vowel of "bitch".



Pardon my interruption, but I think you may have the closed and open vowels backwards. 

1. The [e] or "é" sound (which comprises most Italian "e"’s, right? Please correct me if I'm wrong) is technically half-closed and of the two is the more closed "e", while the 
2. [ɛ] or "è" is half-open and is therefore the more open "e". This would be in the Italian verb, "è," right?

Of those two, in British and American English, we only have one of those "e"'s--the open one (as in "bet"). The sound in "day" is a diphthong, which means the sound is [e(ɪ)]. So technically "chay" seems to be out. However Australians pronounce the [ɛ] of "bed" as [bed], with the "é" or [e] sound. 

So if "luce" is a closed [e] or "é" sound, an American could imitate the sound in Australian "bed." If it is open, am American could use the open [ɛ] or "è" from "bet." 

My question is twofold:
1. Which is it? Is it lucé (closed) or lucè? 
2. Winnie's last statement made me question my belief that all Italian "e"'s were technically é [e], unless noted by accents (unlike French, for example, in which it depends on all kinds of factors). Is this wrong?

Isotta.


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## winnie

Isotta said:
			
		

> My question is twofold:
> 1. Which is it? Is it lucé (closed) or lucè?
> 2. Winnie's last statement made me question my belief that all Italian "e"'s were technically é [e], unless noted by accents (unlike French, for example, in which it depends on all kinds of factors). Is this wrong?
> 
> Isotta.


 
many thanks for your very useful contribution Isotta.
to answer to your questions:

1- it is positively luc*é*
2-your belief is almost right. please forgive me if i created some confusion. what i tryed to point out was exactly what you are saying: for the most part of Italians 'e' is 'é' but in some areas they pronounce it (wrongly) like an 'è'.


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## Vanzo Scheì

winnie said:
			
		

> please Vanzo i don't want to be unpleasant to you but... you made
> the worst example one can do Elisa is from Monfalcone (like my beloved wife!) near Gorizia and Trieste. it's a well-known fact that 'that people' tend to pronounce the 'e' as large as possible
> 
> just to make a little example friday = venerdì for them is vènerdi...
> 
> this fact is an on-going source of mockery between my bride and me!


 
Well...honestly my knowledge of the Italian language comes completely from the Three Venices- Veneto, Friuli-Venezia Giulia, and Trentino.  Therefore...this could be part of the reason that I have never heard anyone say "luce" with an "e" like the American "e" in "cherry".  

Isotta, I'm far from being a linguist, and so I'm sure my terminology could be wrong.  In any case, I would pose the following question to the Italians in the audience:

Is the "e" in "luce" like the "e" in 
a.) pesca (pescare pesci)  [what I am calling "open"]
b.) pesca (il frutto)          [what I am calling "closed"]

I have voted for "a".  In that case, lsp was correct in his original suggestion to pronounce "luce" like with the vowel of "chay".  Yes, it doesn't mean that we will have the pronunciation perfect- but it is the closest equivalent that we have in English.

Looking forward to your responses!


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## winnie

Hi Vanzo,

i have the feeling we have made a big mess!

your example is very clear but i don't agree with the definitions you gave

a. pesca (pescare pesci) is phonetically p*é*sca [what every Italian calls positively "*closed*"

while

b. pesca (il frutto) is phonetically p*è*sca [what we Italians call "*open*"]

the correct pronounce is a. as you guessed


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## Isotta

Grazie a voi due! It is all clear to me now!

Isotta.


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## Tina F.

Revisiting a post back in July concerning the pronounciation of "Bella Luce" --

Many thanks to Isp, winnie, laratri, Vanzo Schei, Jana 337, and Isotta for the lively discussion -- it is so gratifying to learn from the "experts" in Italian.

We are preparing frantically for our first show on October 8, and are ordering business cards -- "Bella Luce Stained Glass" will be our new name.  I believe there is an accent mark over the e in "Luce", or maybe my years of French are so engrained that I am just imagining an accent mark.  Could someone kindly set me straight?

This forum is truly an incredible gift for the little grey cells -- I feel like I'm back in college again!

Many thanks in advance for your kind attention and your time!!!!

Tina F.


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## chiaro

According to dictionary, there is none.


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## Jana337

Tina F. said:
			
		

> Many thanks to Isp, winnie, laratri, Vanzo Schei, Jana 337, and Isotta for the lively discussion -- it is so gratifying to learn from the "experts" in Italian.


 


> We are preparing frantically for our first show on October 8, and are ordering business cards -- "Bella Luce Stained Glass" will be our new name. I believe there is an accent mark over the e in "Luce",


Not to my knowledge - some dictionaries just show "è" or "é" to indicate the correct pronunciation of the vocal. Winnie seems to be an expert. 

Welcome back, Tina. 

Here is the previous thread - in case someone wishes to gain some context.

Jana


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## winnie

Jana i remember very well the thread you have mentioned... it was a big deal to work it out  

in that thread we were arguing about *open* and *close* pronunciation of 'e' in 'luce'.  the proper pronunciation is more similar to the 'e' of 'perch*é*' instead of '*è*' [3rd singular person of essere, present indicative]
actually luce *doesn't* have neither acute accent nor stress on 'e'


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## Tina F.

Many thanks to all -- Bella Luce Stained Glass it is!!!!!!!!!!

Gratefully,

Tina F.


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