# d'enfer



## Old Novice

Bonjour tout le monde / Hi everybody,

I just learned from timpeac that "d'enfer" is a good thing in French (e.g., "Sa petite amie est d'enfer", courtesy of timpeac). Yet "from hell" is a bad one in English (e.g., "the mother-in-law from hell", "the boss from hell"). Is there a list of other cases in which literal translations have opposite meanings in the two languages? Or if there is not a list, do people know of other examples?

Merci en avance / Thanks in advance - O.N.


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## RuK

Terrible, which is even more weird than "d'enfer". 
C'était terrible - it was horrible
C'était terrible - it was great
C'était pas terrible - it wasn't great. 
It always flummoxes me - you get the nuance from the tone of voice.

"Sa petite amie est d'enfer" is a bit slangy, btw - street language, not the kind of thing you'd say to your banker.


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## AlejandroValencia

maybe a bit of a help:

C'etait *l*'enfer  = negative (bad)
C'etait *d*'enfer = positive (really good)

PS: can't edit accents on 'etait'
PS2: as Ruk said, 'd'enfer' is slang


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## Gil

Au Québec, "c'est écoeurant" est ambigu.
Peut vouloir dire "disgusting" ou "great", "super"...
Le contexte, le ton et le visage du locuteur nous renseignent sur le sens.


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## timpeac

"Malin" looks like (and can mean) English "malignant" but it can also be quite a compliment as in "wily" "crafty" "very clever".


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## RuK

Gil, on dit le locuteur? 
Je suis stupéfaite par ton information. Ecoeurant pour dire super????


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## Gil

timpeac said:


> "Malin" looks like (and can mean) English "malignant" but it can also be quite a compliment as in "wily" "crafty" "very clever".


et aussi:
 Par antiphr. "C'est malin! Tu peux être fier de toi!"  c'est stupide.


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## Old Novice

Merci à tous / Thanks, everyone.

I just had this horrible vision of my writing someone a message in French, using a literal translation, and having it taken entirely the wrong way. Saying something with the reverse meaning would be even worse, since the person would have less time to figure out how I might have come to make such an inappropriate statement. (For example, telling a friend that he has "a girlfriend from hell" would NOT be taken well in English.  ) Your responses will help me avoid this fate, and I'm very grateful.

- O.N.


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## timpeac

Oh I've remembered a good one to avoid don't call someone's "good woman" (= wife in English) "bonne femme" in French (= mistress!!)

Edit - or so a French person once told me, but I just checked my dictionary and it gives "her indoors" as the translation, (= a pejorative term for wife). Well, either way a phrase to avoid!


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## panzemeyer

Indeed, I'd say that "bonne femme" can apply to any woman of a certain age whom you look down on.


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## Old Novice

panzemeyer said:


> Indeed, I'd say that "bonne femme" can apply to any woman of a certain age whom you look down on.


 
Clarification request: "of a certain age" is a deliberately vague term in English, but sometimes is defined as "past forty". Is this the sense you intend?

Thanks. O.N.


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## Cath.S.

Old Novice said:


> Clarification request: "of a certain age" is a deliberately vague term in English, but sometimes is defined as "past forty". Is this the sense you intend?
> 
> Thanks. O.N.


Une bonne femme peut avoir beaucoup moins de quarante ans. Dans la bouche d'un ado, sa prof de maths de 28 ans sera une bonne femme. Surtout si elle n'est pas... « bonne ».

Mais ce terme n'est pas toujours péjoratif ; dans la bouche d'un militant d'extrême-gauche, par exemple, _Laguiller, c'est une sacrée bonne femme_ sera un compliment. Dans ce cas, cela voudra dire une femme de caractère.


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## panzemeyer

Old Novice said:


> Clarification request: "of a certain age" is a deliberately vague term in English, but sometimes is defined as "past forty". Is this the sense you intend?
> 
> Thanks. O.N.


Well, I meant it in this vague, subjective, sense. Similarly, "d'un certain âge" will most of the times apply to a woman in her forties or older, even though a teenager might indeed, unaccurately I think, use this term about a woman who just seems old to him (the whole point is: who do you consider as "old" ). 

"Sacrée" completely reverses the meaning of it. It has indeed a very positive meaning.


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## l_gabriel_l

bonne femme est forcément sujet à beaucoup d'interprétation, de par la considération que peut avoir une femme dans nos sociétés (attention je parle d'inconscient collectif et d'héritage social de plusieurs siecles)
cet homme est bon ----> généreux, etc
cette femme est bonne ----> sujet à interprétation, en tout cas ambigue

panzemeyer, quel bonhomme (bon homme) <--- remarquez que c'est un mot, tout le monde s'accorde à dire que panzemeyer est exceptionnel
arlette, quelle bonne femme <----- exceptionnelle ou exceptionnelement chiante



ps: panzemeyer c'est pour panzer meyer ????


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## calembourde

So 'Une Nounou d'Enfer' (the French name for the TV show 'The Nanny') is a positive thing? I thought it was a bit harsh calling her the nanny from hell.

I will have to go to Rue d'Enfer later to see what's so great about it. 

This reminds me of a similar meaning-reversal in English: 'this is shit' means this is bad but 'this is _the_ shit' means it's good.


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## Rigaud

Autre exemple de sens opposés en français et en anglais : 
Sa petite amie est terrible - His girlfriend is terrible !!


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## idiomina

This has been one of the most interesting topics so far. Very good stuff to know.

Here's my two cents on the subjuct: Lately I've been hearing a lot of people using "sick" as the new "cool" or "sweet."  Example, a guy will tell a story and instead of saying cool, or awsome, his friend says "dude, that's sick." --and it's a good thing.


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## Rigaud

Un autre couple infernal : 
Vous êtes un adversaire formidable - You are a formidable opponent (en français : un adversaire redoutable)


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## Old Novice

Rigaud said:


> Un autre couple infernal :
> Vous êtes un adversaire formidable - You are a formidable opponent (en français : un adversaire redoutable)


 
Désolé, mais je ne comprends pas complètement. Qu'est-ce que "un adversaire formidable" veut dire en anglais?


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## Gil

RuK said:


> Gil, on dit le locuteur?
> Je suis stupéfaite par ton information. Ecoeurant pour dire super????



Les linguistes disent "locuteur".  Je dis plus souvent "interlocuteur"...


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## timpeac

Old Novice said:


> Désolé, mais je ne comprends pas complètement. Qu'est-ce que "un adversaire formidable" veut dire en anglais?


A fantastic opponent ("formidable" is a real compliment).


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## LaurentK

Dear ON,
Pour traduire "un adversaire formidable" en anglais, on pourrait dire "a great, fair, loyal, worthy oponent". I am not good enough in English to find a single word, but this is the general meaning.


Old Novice said:


> Désolé, mais je ne comprends pas complètement. Qu'est-ce que "un adversaire formidable" veut dire en anglais?


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## Old Novice

LaurentK said:


> Dear ON,
> Pour traduire "un adversaire formidable" en anglais, on pourrait dire "a great, fair, loyal, worthy oponent". I am not good enough in English to find a single word, but this is the general meaning.


 
Thanks. Perhaps "noble" opponent, or "noble and worthy". "Worthy" primarily implies skillful, but also has a positive sense. "Noble" may be a formalism ("my noble opponent has resigned the match"), but may also suggest "of noble character".


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## Old Novice

polaire provided another example in a different thread, which I wanted to pass on here:

... "avoir la vie dure" -- to die hard.

"Les clichés ont la vie dure" -- Clichés die hard.

As ter9 pointed out in the same thread, "la vie dure" sounds like "hard life" in English. So saying that your mother-in-law had had "la vie dure" apparently would NOT mean she'd had a hard life, and might not be taken as the complement you intended!


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## LaurentK

Thank you, Old Novice.


Old Novice said:


> Thanks. Perhaps "noble" opponent, or "noble and worthy". "Worthy" primarily implies skillful, but also has a positive sense. "Noble" may be a formalism ("my noble opponent has resigned the match"), but may also suggest "of noble character".


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## roland098

calembourde said:


> So 'Une Nounou d'Enfer' (the French name for the TV show 'The Nanny') is a positive thing? I thought it was a bit harsh calling her the nanny from hell.
> 
> I will have to go to Rue d'Enfer later to see what's so great about it.
> 
> This reminds me of a similar meaning-reversal in English: 'this is shit' means this is bad but 'this is _the_ shit' means it's good.


 
or this is bollocks (rubbish), or this is the (dog's) bollocks (great)

then there are words like bad and wicked, used in a positive sense in slang


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## Bostonien

Yes, in English we have a history of words like "terrible" in French - where it becomes cool to use a word that means something negative to mean something positive.

In the 80s/early 90s, "bad" could mean "good" (no doubt helped in part by Michael Jackson). "He's so bad" meant "He's so awesome (or really cool)." You don't really hear this anymore (except in expressions like "bad-ass").

Having lived in the Boston area (where "wicked" is treated as a local invention), I must elaborate on "wicked" which can be used to mean "very" (as an adverb) or "awesome" (as an adjective). The adverbial form is much more common. 

Adverb: "That's wicked awesome" = "That's very awesome"
Adjective: "That's so wicked" = "That's awesome/great"

As pointed out, it is now la mode to say "sick" to mean "awesome/cool/great". "That's really sick what he can do on a bike." "Man that's sick!"

And yes, the "shit" example is a good one illustrating how with our beloved English curse words one displaced article can change the whole meaning.

Finally, I'll leave you with a classic example in English that has always stupified me.
For some strange reason "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing!

[EDIT: Whoops I misspoke earlier - only "inflammable" exists in French. This means that "inflammable" in French may be translated in English either as "flammable" or as "inflammable"]


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## roland098

Bostonien said:


> Adverb: "That's wicked awesome" = "That's very awesome"
> 
> *  That ones not made it across the pond for sure. Kids still say ''that's wicked' as far as I know, but never heard it used meaning very.*
> 
> As pointed out, it is now la mode to say "sick" to mean "awesome/cool/great". "That's really sick what he can do on a bike." "Man that's sick!"
> 
> *Ditto.*
> 
> Finally, I'll leave you with a classic example in French *and* in English that has always stupified me.
> For some strange reason "flammable" and "inflammable" mean the same thing!


 
*Hmm, that is a bit odd.*


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## timpeac

roland098 said:


> *Hmm, that is a bit odd.*


What do you mean?


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## Auryn

"Sick" has already crossed the Atlantic. See this news story (no link, I read it in the paper):

_London visitors are going to be able to learn rap-style slang to help them understand local teens. Mayor Ken Livingstone has lined up free crash courses for tourists in London's Trafalgar Square. The move comes after researchers revealed teenagers have swapped traditional Cockney rhyming slang for a new dialect dubbed "Jafaican". It mixes English, Jamaican patois, Indian and West African dialects and is officially called Multicultural English. The language use words such as "creps" for trainers, "yard" for home and "sick" or "nang" for good._


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## roland098

timpeac said:


> What do you mean?


 
I was referring to the flammable thing.


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## roland098

Auryn said:


> "Sick" has already crossed the Atlantic. See this news story (no link, I read it in the paper):
> 
> _London visitors are going to be able to learn rap-style slang to help them understand local teens. Mayor Ken Livingstone has lined up free crash courses for tourists in London's Trafalgar Square. The move comes after researchers revealed teenagers have swapped traditional Cockney rhyming slang for a new dialect dubbed "Jafaican". It mixes English, Jamaican patois, Indian and West African dialects and is officially called Multicultural English. The language use words such as "creps" for trainers, "yard" for home and "sick" or "nang" for good._


 
Fair enough. Nor come across it myself, but then I'm not a London teenager.


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## fatcat

timpeac said:


> Oh I've remembered a good one to avoid don't call someone's "good woman" (= wife in English) "bonne femme" in French (= mistress!!)
> 
> No! Bonne femme doesn't mean mistress, even though "bon ami" or "bonne amie" (a totally passé rural expression) was used to mean something like today's "fiancé(e)" or "petit(e) ami(e)".
> When you say "une bonne femme", it means a woman, generally middle aged, with a derogatory ring to the expression. Or just a woman, but it's never appreciative.
> When you say " ah les femmes !", it can be good or bad, but if you say "ah les bonnes femmes !", it's definitely pejorative.
> 
> In québec, "écoeurant" (literaly "sickening" means terrible but, yes, it can mean good, even superb. Like, it's so good it makes you sick because you'll never be able to be that good...
> 
> Talking about words that can mean the opposite between French and English or even within French itself, try the pervasive "con".
> 
> In French, it is the equivalent of the very offensive "cunt" (i.e female genitals) only in erotic (and outdated) literature, but it is supposed not to be coarse in that context (which is debatable).
> However, if you say "c'est un con" about someone (a male),  it means that the guy is a jerk, but if you say "ah ! le con! ", it can mean "what an asshole" or "wow !" depending on intonation. I.e exactly the opposite.
> Finally, learn the expression "il (n')est pas la moitié d'un con", or even "il a oublié d'être con" which means he's super bright. How's that ?
> "connasse", however, which is the feminine, is always derogatory. Terribly insulting. Exercise caution.


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## fatcat

To be precise : flammable means that something can go on fire. 
In French : inflammable

but "inflammable" in English means quick tempered. 
In French : emporté (NOT inflammable !)

an then, there's ininflammable in French, which is nonflammable in English.


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## timpeac

fatcat said:


> but "inflammable" in English means quick tempered.


I've never heard "inflammable" used in such a way and if it can mean that it is not very common in that sense. It most certainly does mean "that which can catch fire" though and in that sense it is synonymous with "flammable" (which I have always assumed to be a back formation from "inflammable", eg "inflammable" existed first and then was incorrectly assumed to mean "that which cannot burn" (because of the "in" which normally negates an adjective) which led people to invent "flammable". "Inflammable" is the more usual word in my experience for "that which can burn.


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## kiwi-di

Ici, les jeunes disent toujour que quelque chose est "wicked".  Pour moi ça veut dire _malfaisant, très méchant._Mais chez eux, c'est plutôt - _superbe.

http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=1832171&postcount=1


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