# Risultare



## mateintwo

Quite common expressions are mi risulta, ti risulta and the negative form non mi risulta.  Can anyone suggest the best english translation of these expressions and show them in context.


----------



## Saoul

I think that a fair English translation would be:

As far as I know...

or 

It is my understanding that...

What do you want to have shown? The use of the English expressions, or of the Italian one?


----------



## mateintwo

Saoul said:


> I think that a fair English translation would be:
> 
> As far as I know...
> 
> or
> 
> It is my understanding that...
> 
> What do you want to have shown? The use of the English expressions, or of the Italian one?


 
Italian expressions, thank you.


----------



## TrentinaNE

I've been studying Italian for a while now, but I'm completely unfamiliar with this expression.  How have you heard it used, mateintwo?

Elisabetta


----------



## nicmizar

Two examples, the first for the positive form "mi risulta"
_Mi risulta che oggi l'ufficio *chiuda* alle 12.00_

The second for the negative form "non mi risulta"
_Non mi risulta che tu *sia* abbastanza coraggioso da entrare nella gabbia dei leoni_

Please, notice the subjuntive verb used after both the expressions "mi risulta" e "non mi risulta"

Hope this helps


----------



## Snowman75

nicmizar said:


> Two examples, the first for the positive form "mi risulta"
> _Mi risulta che oggi l'ufficio *chiuda* alle 12.00_
> 
> The second for the negative form "non mi risulta"
> _Non mi risulta che tu *sia* abbastanza coraggioso da entrare nella gabbia dei leoni_
> 
> Please, notice the subjuntive verb used after both the expressions "mi risulta" e "non mi risulta"
> 
> Hope this helps


I haven't heard this before either. It seems to be very similar in form and meaning to "mi sembra che..." or "mi pare che...". How do these phrases differ?


----------



## Saoul

Well, more or less.
Mi risulta is likely to be used when you are sure about what you are going to state. Nicmizar's example works pretty fine here:

Mi risulta che oggi l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.
You know that the office will be closed at 12. a.m. You have this piece of information.
Mi sembre che oggi l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.
This is more: "I think the office will be (...)" so you are not 100% sure. The shop might be closed at 12.30, 11.00, or never. 
Same goes for "mi pare che".
I hope this helps.


----------



## moodywop

Snowman75 said:


> I haven't heard this before either. It seems to be very similar in form and meaning to "mi sembra che..." or "mi pare che...". How do these phrases differ?


 
In my opinion "mi risulta che..." implies you are basing your statement on some pretty reliable information. On the other hand "mi pare/mi sembra" can suggest "I think so but I'm not sure".

Saoul's translations seem perfect to me.

On second thoughts I would also add that "mi pare/sembra" can be used in practically all situations, by which I mean also situations where you're just expressing your personal impression. "Mi risulta" implies you have some factual source for what you're saying so its use is more limited. Of course your source may be out of date etc

By the way, when used without "mi", "risulta" means something like "from the evidence/documentation/papers etc in our possession it appears that...".

This was typed in a rush so I hope I didn't fail to mention anything important


----------



## Snowman75

In that case, Saol's original translations seem to be exactly right:

As far as I know, the office closes at 12 today
It's my understanding that the office closes at 12 today

or just:

I understand that the office closes at 12 today

The versions that use the word "understand" can also be used as questions. In this case you are saying that you are pretty sure that the office closes at 12, but you'd like confirmation of that fact. Can "mi risulta che..." be used as a question in this way?


I'm not sure about the negative versions. Using nicmizar's example:

_Non mi risulta che tu sia abbastanza coraggioso da entrare nella gabbia dei leoni_

Does this mean "I think you have insufficient courage" or "I don't know whether or not you have sufficient courage"?


----------



## mateintwo

Saoul said:


> Well, more or less.
> Mi risulta is likely to be used when you are sure about what you are going to state. Nicmizar's example works pretty fine here:
> 
> Mi risulta che oggi l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.
> You know that the office will be closed at 12. a.m. You have this piece of information.
> Mi sembre che oggi l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.
> This is more: "I think the office will be (...)" so you are not 100% sure. The shop might be closed at 12.30, 11.00, or never.
> Same goes for "mi pare che".
> I hope this helps.


 
Thanks. Very helpful. But I am sticking my neck out now saying I feel it is often used by lawyers and politicians in Italy similar to typical lawyers' talk in English saying "To the best of my understanding or to the best of my knowledge" which is a way to state a fact with an escape if it turns out to be an untrue statement.


----------



## Saoul

I happen to use it quite a lot. Ironically speaking most of all.

X: Stasera andiamo tutti fuori a cena?
S: Non mi risulta!

It's a sort of "Not that I know" in this case.

Non mi risulta che ci siano negozi aperti in zona, la domenica pomeriggio.

In this case, too, even if the topic is quite "colloquial", the use of "non mi risulta" sounds fine to me. 
No stiff and stilted lawyers' or politicians' style, even if I absolutely see your point. It can be used as you described. (Unfortunately )


----------



## moodywop

Snowman75 said:


> . Can "mi risulta che..." be used as a question in this way?


 
Yes, of course, though it would be "ti risulta che...?". It can also be used ironically/sarcastically.

Your negative example, too, could easily be spoken sarcastically: "Well, as far as I know, (or from what I hear) you don't..."



mateintwo said:


> But I am sticking my neck out now saying I feel it is often used by lawyers and politicians in Italy similar to typical lawyers' talk in English saying "To the best of my understanding" which is a way to state a fact with an escape if it turns out to be an untrue statement.


----------



## Snowman75

moodywop said:


> Yes, of course, though it would be "ti risulta che...?". It can also be used ironically/sarcastically.
> 
> I didn't make myself clear. In English you can say, as a question:
> 
> "I understand that the office closes at 12?"
> 
> Note "I", not "you". This means that I am fairly certain the office closes at 12, but I'm seeking confirmation.
> 
> So the equivalent in Italian would be:
> 
> "mi pare che ...?"
> 
> but I'm guessing that that doesn't work in Italian.


----------



## TrentinaNE

Snowman75 said:


> moodywop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course, though it would be "ti risulta che...?". It can also be used ironically/sarcastically.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't make myself clear. In English you can say, as a question:
> 
> "I understand that the office closes at 12?"
Click to expand...

Pardon if I misunderstand, but I think Carlo was referring to a situation where one seeks to confirm another's understanding: "You understand that the office closes as 12, (don't you)?" In questo caso, mi pare che "Ti risulta che l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.00?" vada bene.  O mi sono sbagliata?   

Elisabetta


----------



## moodywop

TrentinaNE said:


> Pardon if I misunderstand, but I think Carlo was referring to a situation where one seeks to confirm another's understanding: "You understand that the office closes as 12, (don't you)?" In questo caso, mi pare che "Ti risulta che l'ufficio chiuda alle 12.00?" vada bene.  O mi sono sbagliata?


 
No, Elisabetta! Il tuo cervello è fresco e scattante, come sempre Non ti sei affatto sbagliata!


----------



## mateintwo

TrentinaNE said:


> I've been studying Italian for a while now, but I'm completely unfamiliar with this expression. How have you heard it used, mateintwo?
> 
> Elisabetta


 
Well as I allude to in a previous post. I have seen the expression mi risulta/non mi risulta in newspaper interwiews with politicians and in this context I think it can be translated: to the best of my knowledge.
PS After living 25 years in USA i moved to Italy 2 years ago and I am trying to teach myself Italian reading papers and watching television with teletext and therefore run accross expressions you do not normally find in Italian-English grammer books.


----------



## TrentinaNE

mateintwo said:


> PS After living 25 years in USA i moved to Italy 2 years ago and I am trying to teach myself Italian reading papers and watching television with teletext and therefore run accross expressions you do not normally find in Italian-English grammer books.


Eccelente!  Per adesso, questo forum è il mio modo per imparare queste espressioni, ma preferirei usare il tuo.   

Elisabetta


----------



## smiling

Snowman75 said:


> moodywop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, of course, though it would be "ti risulta che...?". It can also be used ironically/sarcastically.
> 
> I didn't make myself clear. In English you can say, as a question:
> 
> "I understand that the office closes at 12?"
> 
> Note "I", not "you". This means that I am fairly certain the office closes at 12, but I'm seeking confirmation.
> 
> So the equivalent in Italian would be:
> 
> "mi pare che ...?"
> 
> but I'm guessing that that doesn't work in Italian.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Non mi risulta di aver visto una risposta a questa domanda!!
> 
> Snowman se non vuoi farla con mi risulta per dare il tono di domanda con mi pare che, secondo me dovresti mettere un "non è cosi?" i.e. (o qui e.g, cosi vedo di chiarmi altri dubbi, inciso, ho già letto alcuni threads a riguardo ma...) mi pare che il negozio chiuda alle 12, non è cosi?
Click to expand...


----------



## lsp

Great word in Italian. So many uses and meanings. Here are some ways I have found it useful. (I love it because it sounds _authentic_, so if I've gotten it wrong, pleeeeeeeease correct me ).

Hai trovato il documento nel archivio?
No, non mi risulta.

Ho fatto una ricerca, e mi risulta che non è stato consegnato ancora il pacco.


----------



## brian

Just a quick comment--_mi risulta_ often equates to _it occurs to me_, in my opinion.  Not in every context, to be sure, but often enough.  The word "occur" in English implies more certainty that "appears" or "seems," as if you have experiential evidence with which to support your opinion or belief.


b...


----------



## moodywop

brian8733 said:


> --_mi risulta_ often equates to _it occurs to me_, in my opinion. Not in every context, to be sure, but often enough. The word "occur" in English implies more certainty that "appears" or "seems," as if you have experiential evidence with which to support your opinion or belief.


 
I'm afraid I have to disagree (a pleasant change from our usual seeing eye to eye! ). 
"Occur" cannot be separated from its "come to one's mind" sense. "Mi risulta" conveys no such sense. It suggests, in a matter-of-fact way, that as far as you know and have always known etc etc. It's based on factual knowledge that's sitting in your brain and does not require any "occurring".

Of course I'm talking about the literal, non-ironic sense.

Even in the literal sense, "mi risulta" could not be translated into English by using "occur" when it's in the negative. Or can you say "it doesn't occur to me"?


----------



## elroy

Might I suggest the following translations for the negative version:

_I do not know that..._
_I am not aware that..._


----------



## brian

Haha, I'm not on much of a roll tonight, nor will I be able to explain myself well enough at this hour, but I should mention that my use of "it occurs to me" may differ from others'.  I don't use "it occurs to me that..." (in this present tense) in the exact sense of "it comes to (my) mind that..."  I often equate it, like I said, to experience, but very often in the sense of "It has (always) been my experience that..."

Interestingly enough, however, I would use the past tense "It has (just) occurred to me that..." to mean "It has (just) come to my mind that..."  I'm curious to know what other English speakers think of this.

EDIT: I should concede that "it occurs to me that" is more limited in its use than "mi risulta che."  I'd have to situate things in my head a little more before further explanation, but I think it more prudent to just get some sleep first.  Long day...  Also, Carlo, you can say "It has never occurred to me," which implies no previous understanding or knowledge.


----------



## elroy

Brian, can you give me an example of how _*you*_ would use "it occurs to me"?


----------



## Snowman75

brian8733 said:


> Haha, I'm not on much of a roll tonight, nor will I be able to explain myself well enough at this hour, but I should mention that my use of "it occurs to me" may differ from others'. I don't use "it occurs to me that..." (in this present tense) in the exact sense of "it comes to (my) mind that..." I often equate it, like I said, to experience, but very often in the sense of "It has (always) been my experience that..."
> 
> Interestingly enough, however, I would use the past tense "It has (just) occurred to me that..." to mean "It has (just) come to my mind that..." I'm curious to know what other English speakers think of this.


Actually for me it's the exact opposite.

"it occurs to me" = "I only just realised this recently, probably just a moment ago."

"it has occurred to me" = "I have realised this some time in the past. I've probably thought about it on more than one occasion"

"it occurred to me" = "I realised this on _one_ particular occasion, some time in the past"


----------



## smiling

lsp said:


> Great word in Italian. So many uses and meanings. Here are some ways I have found it useful. (I love it because it sounds _authentic_, so if I've gotten it wrong, pleeeeeeeease correct me ).
> 
> Hai trovato il documento nel archivio?
> No, non mi risulta.
> 
> 
> 
> Ho fatto una ricerca, e mi risulta che non è stato consegnato ancora il pacco.


 
Il primo mi sembra un po' strano... Il punto è che se l'hai cercato sai se c'è o non c'è. Nel secondo caso non dipende da te, quindi dato che non puoi avere quel grado di convinzione dire che risulta può andare.
Non penso sia l'unico punto di vista, cerco di dare delle motivazione a qualcosa che mi suona strano, perchè dire non suona non può aiutare putroppo.


----------



## arceri

Scusate se intervengo, ma in italiano il verbo "risultare" o la parola risulta è un poco classica. Nel linguaggio corrente e popolare noi usiamo piuttosto dire: "il negozio chiude alle 12" se siamo sicuri, ovvero " credo (penso) che chiuda alle 12" se non siamo certi. (in English "the shop closes at 12" or " I think the shop...).
Se sbaglio correggietemi pure. Grazie


----------



## smiling

arceri said:


> Scusate se intervengo, ma in italiano il verbo "risultare" o la parola risulta è un poco classica. Nel linguaggio corrente e popolare noi usiamo piuttosto dire: "il negozio chiude alle 12" se siamo sicuri, ovvero " credo (penso) che chiuda alle 12" se non siamo certi. (in English "the shop closes at 12" or " I think the shop...).
> Se sbaglio correggietemi pure. Grazie


 
Si? Non mi risulta... 
Io la uso abbastanza.


----------



## moodywop

smiling said:


> Si? Non mi risulta...
> Io la uso abbastanza.


 
Anch'io. Sono interessanti comunque queste differenze d'uso.


----------



## smiling

moodywop said:


> Anch'io. Sono interessanti comunque queste differenze d'uso.


 
Quello che mi lascia perplesso è che non è una differenza nord sud come la maggior parte dei casi, dato che ho visto che è di Bergamo e io di Milano!


----------



## ics

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lsp* [URL]http://forum.wordreference.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
> Great word in Italian. So many uses and meanings. Here are some ways I have found it useful. (I love it because it sounds _authentic_, so if I've gotten it wrong, pleeeeeeeease correct me ).
> 
> Hai trovato il documento nel archivio?
> No, non mi risulta.
> 
> 
> 
> Ho fatto una ricerca, e mi risulta che non è stato consegnato ancora il pacco.
> 
> 
> 
> Il primo mi sembra un po' strano... Il punto è che se l'hai cercato sai se c'è o non c'è. Nel secondo caso non dipende da te, quindi dato che non puoi avere quel grado di convinzione dire che risulta può andare.
> Non penso sia l'unico punto di vista, cerco di dare delle motivazione a qualcosa che mi suona strano, perchè dire non suona non può aiutare putroppo.


 
But I could say: 

Questo documento (a me) non risulta archiviato, no?


----------



## lsp

These corrections are so appreciated, thank you!


----------



## arceri

caro Smiling, anch'io sono di Milano, anche se ora abito a Bergamo. Quello che voglio dire è che "mi risulta" è in un buon italiano, mentre nel linguaggio colloquiale e/o popolare, specie se detto da persone che hanno conoscenza del dialetto, non è comune. Comunque grazie a tutti per essere stati ad ascoltarmi.


----------



## uinni

smiling said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *lsp* [URL]http://forum.wordreference.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/URL]
> Great word in Italian. So many uses and meanings. Here are some ways I have found it useful. (I love it because it sounds _authentic_, so if I've gotten it wrong, pleeeeeeeease correct me ).
> 
> Hai trovato il documento nel archivio?
> No, non mi risulta.
> 
> 
> 
> Ho fatto una ricerca, e mi risulta che non è stato consegnato ancora il pacco.
> 
> 
> 
> Il primo mi sembra un po' strano... Il punto è che se l'hai cercato sai se c'è o non c'è. Nel secondo caso non dipende da te, quindi dato che non puoi avere quel grado di convinzione dire che risulta può andare.
> Non penso sia l'unico punto di vista, cerco di dare delle motivazione a qualcosa che mi suona strano, perchè dire non suona non può aiutare putroppo.


 
I do not agree with this correction. They both are perfectly "legal" (in both colloquial and formal contexts) and I have heard this usage of "risultare" many times from many differently educated people...

Uinni


----------



## lsp

uinni said:


> I do not agree with this correction. They both are perfectly "legal" (in both colloquial and formal contexts) and I have heard this usage of "risultare" many times from many differently educated people...
> 
> Uinni



Well, welcome back Uinni!!!!!


----------



## L'Stevo

I know this is an old post now... but I think the best translation for "Mi risulta che" is "I find that...".

Likewise, "Non mi risulta," for example, would mean "I don't find that's the case."


----------

