# Forgetting languages / olvidarse de idiomas



## opsidol

Hi, my worst fear is that one day I might forget the languages I have worked so hard to learn. I would like to know, how easy is it to actually forget a language? How long does it take of not using the language to forget it? To what extent are they lost? Is it possible to forget a language you are fluent in or even your native language?

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Hola, tengo mucho miedo de que algún día podría olvidarme de los idiomas para los que he trabajado tan duro para aprender. Me gustaría saber si realmente es muy fácil olvidarse de un idioma? ¿Cuánto tiempo de no usar el idioma tarda ante se empiece olvidar? ¿Hasta qué punto estén perdidos? ¿Es posible olvidarse de un idioma que ya se domina o aún su idioma nativo?


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## VenusEnvy

Wow, this is a fab question. Kudos.   I can't wait to hear what others say!


I was very close to becoming fluent in French. I took classes for about 5 years, and became serious. I then began studying Spanish and it seemed as though it pushed French out of my mind. I still remember sentence structure and some words, but it's difficult for me to piece together a sentence. It's a sad story, really. _It only took me a few months to forget it all._ 

I'm sure though that if I studied it for a few weeks, I could pull it out from the back files in my brain. je je



A friend of mine is from Venezuela, and has been living here in the USA for about a decade. He began highschool here, and went on to college. Some days when we're speaking in Spanish, he'll replace a word with an English one because he can't remember how to say it in his native language. This happened recently, and I (yes, ME!) has to tell him the Spanish word. 


Are there any foreros out there who are slowly forgetting their native tongue?....


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## cherine

Interesting thread indeed 
My personal experience : I studied French since age 4, then after finishing university (age 21) I stoped using it for sometimes, and was about to completly forget all about it if I didn't rush to the French Cultural Center's library to read, read and read 
the problem is, while recovering my French, i let aside English, and now I can't speak as good as I used to and I make lots of mistakes . (but I'm trying to overcome this, and intend to go take an English course before it's too late.

A friend of mine's experience: She learned Italian, and took a month long course in Italy with a friend of hers. While they were there they spoke Italian all the time, even with each other, so when they got back to Egypt they had some trouble speaking Arabic, their native language, for sometime. Now they're "ok"  and they speak perfect Italian and Arabic


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## Chaska Ñawi

Our brains have a temporary and a permanent filing system.  When we are learning a concept, we keep it in the temporary system.  Only by constant application in different contexts (the "different contexts" part is very important) do we create a permanent neuron path and transfer this information into permanent storage.

Here are a couple of examples:

I audited German and Italian as extra courses while at university.  "Auditing", as opposed to being "enrolled" meant that I was not allowed to write any tests.  As these were not conversational classes, I had no opportunity to use them in speech.  These languages therefore never embedded themselves, and in a short time they were gone.  The only reason I can even read Italian is because of knowing other romance languages.

I learned Quechua by speaking it daily and asking lots of nosy questions.  I spoke it for only a few months, but in so many situations that it did embed itself.  I am continually amazed that I remember so much without any recent opportunities to use it.

In other words, if a language has been properly embedded, it will come back even if it gets a bit rusty from disuse.  If it was never embedded in the first place, you'd have to start again from scratch once your brain has dumped it out of temporary memory storage.


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## blancalaw

I find myself getting rusty in communicating in Spanish if I have not spoken it to anyone for a month.  My fluency decays and I forget words.  But on the opposite spectrum, six years ago when I returned to the USA after 3 months in Argentina, I caught myself when speaking English inserting Spanish words in my sentences.  ¿Qué va?! I would tell myself.

To me learning a language is like lifting weights.  It takes a lot of practice and consistency to build the language muscle, and if one does not use it over a time, it will deteriorate and turn into "language fat".


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## tigger_uhuhu

Yo soy muy despistado y me olvido de todo muy rápido, creo que esa es la razón por la que olvidé el 80% de lo que aprendí de italiano   
Y también he sabido de gente que domina el idioma y al no practicarlo no olvida, sino que lo "guarda" mejor, pero al volver a usarlo va recordando todo.


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## Monnik

I agree with you all and do believe that lack of practice can very easily give way to forgetfullness.   I lived in the US for six years, and since I had virtually no contact with other Spanish speakers, I came to the point where I sometimes forgot a Spanish word here or there!  Now, in order not to forget (as much of) my English, I work as a translator (which was my second major), I try to only read books in English and whatever TV I watch is also in English (even if, for the moment, Elmo, Bert and Ernie have established their own little monopoly in my house)  

Then there are places like this, which are great for keeping us all on our toes!


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## Wintermoon

Yo también estoy de acuerdo con todos vosotros. Espero que todos mis esfuerzos por aprender inglés se hayan construido sobre una buena base, ¡sería una tragedia que hubiesen sido en vano!
Tengo un amigo que fue un año a EEUU a estudiar en un programa de intercambio, viviendo en una familia autóctona, y volvió a España para pasar el verano y seguir estudiando aquí. Pues bien, en tres meses olvidó todo el inglés que había aprendido y ahora aprueba la asignatura a duras penas. ¡Vaya fracaso!


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## natasha2000

Creo que si no usas un idioma, lo olvidas. A mi me pasó con mi propio idioma, estuve sin hablarlo casi dos años, hablaba sólo español, y luego cuando lo hablaba, me parecía yo misma rara. Las frases tenían la costruccion española, la pronunciación de las letras era española, en fin, horror! Lo mismo me pasa con inglés. Mientras vivía en mi país, usabe inglés a diario, lo enseñaba, teraducía, hablaba... Y el flojo era español. Pero desde que vivo en España, ahora es al revés... Aunque todavía en mi trabajo hago traducciones, de vez en cuando hablo en inglés, y doy una que otra clase, ya no es lo mismo que antes... Si tengo que comunicarme con alguien quien sé que habla los dos idiomas, siempre me sale primero español... Es muy triste, lo sé, pero es así...

Por otro lado, creo que cuanto menos conoces un idioma, es más fácil olvidarlo.... Cuando tenía 15 años, empezé a estudiar alemán. Lo estudiaba durante 4 años, y luego lo dejé... Cuando lo dejé, podía llevar una conversación simple, tenía buenas bases para seguir sola, pero no lo hice... y en un par de meses, ya se me había olvidado todo...


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## lonelyheartsclubband

Vivo en Israel 7 años y ya que domino el hebreo como mi segundo idioma natal. Antés(en tres días me voy a la mili ya) viajaba cada verano a Rusia, a mi tierra para ver a mi padre.
Cada vez que volvía desde Rusia, tenía dificultades por unos días en hablar el hebreo. Pero se recuperaba cada vez que lo volvía a hablar. Pues el Hebreo se me olvida rápidamente. Creo que si no lo hablo por 3 meses o más, me se olvidará todo el idioma.
Sobre el Ruso, mi idioma natal, lo intento guardar por leer unos libros en él. Antés del último verano casi no lo hablé en la familia y cuando vine a Rusia, por la primera vez me di cuenta que lo había olvidado un poco. Por mucha desgracia ya no lo pude recuperar como antés y ahora se nota un poco mi acento e entonaciones Isralies. Mi hermano no ha estado en Rusia 7 años y este año ha viajado a Rusia por la primera vez. Mis parientes se quejaron que él había puesto todo el rato palabras hebreas en Ruso y además dijeron que se había notado su acento extranjero. Eso me hace pensar que si no leo en el Ruso, no lo escucho y no lo hablo - se me puede olvidar dentro de un año.
Sobre el Inglés, lo empecé a estudiar cuando tenía menos de 10 años, pues debo esforzarme mucho más que con el hebreo para olvidarlo. Cuando estudiaba en la escuela, lo hablaba sin dificultates y en los últimos meses no lo hablo. Pues, pierdo la fluidez en este idioma.
Sobre el Árabe - creo que lo he olvidado casi todo. Todavía soy capaz de leer algo. Empecé a estudiar el Árabe cuando vine a Israel y no he logrado nivel alto en este idioma para 7 años.
Pues creo que los idiomas que empecé a estudiar cuando tenía menos de 10 años se me olvidarán lentamente en contra los que empecé a estudiar después de tener 10 años(como el Hebreo y el Árabe).


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## nichec

Hello to all:
My mother language is Chinese, and I got my BA in Taiwan (where we speak both Chinese and Taiwanese). I taught English for a while after I graduated, and then I went to Paris. For more than one year, my life was filled with French and English, and then when I went back to Taiwan for a vocation, I realized that I'd forgotten most of the Chinese words. When I talk, I actually think in English and translate it to Chinese in my brain. People asked me if I'm a Taiwanese because they think I have an accent in my mother language! I was really shocked because I thought one can never forget one's mother language, but obviously I was wrong....

Because of that experience, now I'm trying very hard to keep using English and French as much as I can...


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## SweetMommaSue

opsidol said:
			
		

> Hi, my worst fear is that one day I might forget the languages I have worked so hard to learn. I would like to know, how easy is it to actually forget a language? How long does it take of not using the language to forget it? To what extent are they lost? Is it possible to forget a language you are fluent in or even your native language?


Hello opsidol!
Great question! Here's my experience:
While a baby and up to age 2+yrs, my mother, brother and I lived with my father's family while he was active duty army. My dad's family is from Ischia (his mother's side) and Napoli (his father's side). Consequently, I learned both English and Napolitana. However, once my mother and father moved in a place of their own, away from my dad's family, only English was spoken in the house (mom's not of Italian descent). Needless to say, I cannot speak Napolitana now. I have no recollection of it. I studied French in school in 5th, and then 7th thru 12th grades. We spoke it everyday in class and whenever we'd meet up with the teacher. She refused to speak with us in English! I was fairly fluent in French because of that. We watched movies both with and without subtitles and read literature extensively. After high school, I didn't get to use it much. I did find it useful when, years later, I was in port in Djibouti. I was quite surprised at how much I had retained. 

I had only managed one year, in the 10th grade, of Spanish. Now, after being around so many immigrants from the various Latin American countries, I have been half-studying Spanish (I did take a semester of it last year). However, since I haven't been speaking it on a regular basis, I lost much of the more advanced grammar rules that I learned. Also, I find that I get confused with how to use the direct and indirect objects--I sometimes mix French rules with Spanish words. Another oddity--when I speak Spanish, many of my friends say I tend to sound Italian (but I don't speak Italian, yet).

I used Farsi extensively for a year while living with some Iranian friends prior to entering the Navy. Most of that language is also lost. I hope to reconnect with an Iranian woman I spoke with last year, and then we'll help each other with our languages. I really look forward to relearning Farsi-reading, writing and speaking. I would like to do translating work!

While in Japan I began to take Japanese; however, I didn't have the opportunity to apply myself as I should have nor did I get out and speak it, and so I don't remember anything but a few isolated words.

I have found that the more I used a language, the better I could remember it. I have also found that it is more difficult learning a foreign language now that I'm older than it was when I was much younger. When I was younger, it was like my brain just accepted the new grammar and vocabulary and soaked it up! Now, I find I must really work at studying the vocabulary and grammar. I also forget it more easily. So, I believe age has something to do with the learning process as well. That hasn't deterred me from my current ambition to relearn my languages, though! I'm determined to relearn all my previous ones and add Catalan, Italian, Portugese and perhaps Mandarin to my repetoire-- all in good time. 

My gypsy grandpa spoke 7 languages fluently and bits and pieces of 13 others! I wonder if the facility is handed down genetically??

 Smiles!
Sweet Momma Sue


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## opsidol

Muchas gracias por las respuestas hasta aquí. Es muy muy interesante pero al mismo tiempo muy deprimente! Estoy decidido a no olvidarme de nada!

Thanks a lot for the replies thus far. It's really very interesting but at the same time very depressing! I am determined never to forget anything!


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## asm

Mis hijos llegaron a los EUA con poco y/o nada de ingles, el mas pequeno tenia casi tres años y ya se daba a entender en espanol. Ahora dificilmente lo practica y esta muy olvidado. El más grande de ellos llegó a los 7 y ahora habla más o menos el espanol, pero no tan bien como lo hacen sus primos de su edad.

El idioma nativo sí se pierde en ciertas circunstancias, pero en otras la gente llega a tener un manejo impresionante en varias lenguas. A mi me tienen impresionados los suizos en particular y los europeos en general. Manejan muchas lenguas. Desconozco de otros lugares del mundo, aunque tengo la impresion de que en la India tambien es común que la gente hable varias lenguas (el inglés entre ellas).




			
				opsidol said:
			
		

> Hi, my worst fear is that one day I might forget the languages I have worked so hard to learn. I would like to know, how easy is it to actually forget a language? How long does it take of not using the language to forget it? To what extent are they lost? Is it possible to forget a language you are fluent in or even your native language?
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Hola, tengo mucho miedo de que algún día podría olvidarme de los idiomas para los que he trabajado tan duro para aprender. Me gustaría saber si realmente es muy fácil olvidarse de un idioma? ¿Cuánto tiempo de no usar el idioma tarda ante se empiece olvidar? ¿Hasta qué punto estén perdidos? ¿Es posible olvidarse de un idioma que ya se domina o aún su idioma nativo?


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## cirrus

This brings up for me is the question of what is real fluency.  I think about the languages I studied - years and years of German and French, a bit of Italian and Portuguese along the way and then giggle at how little I have retained.  Chaska Nawi's post for me says it all - the number of differerent contexts you have used your language in seems to be the key to having it still accessible.  

I didn't speak English at all for two years (apart from on the phone) and surprise surprise when I came back I would lapse into Spanish if I was tired.  Even now when I speak English 98% of the time I still find myself saying "A ver" and "Ay!" if I bash myself.  

I wonder how many languages we can be properly fluent in.  I have friends in Holland and while they have studied French, German and English and can more than happily get by in all of those what I find is that when you ask people about their work then the words dry up really quickly - again it is all about the context.  

I have done interpreting here and one of the most difficult cases I had was explaining how the national health service works - even though I have an extensive Spanish vocabulary many of the concepts don't exist in Ecuador. 
I used to live with Italians in London and heard Italian every day, as a Spanish speaker this meant I picked it up relatively easily.  However when their parents came over my "italiano per genitori" would last all of ten minutes before it had become as Italian as a flight from Miami to Santiago.


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## blancalaw

> I wonder how many languages we can be properly fluent in.



That is a good point. I only know two languages, I can't imagine yet battling to keep 3 or more languages, obtaining fluency in two is hard enough. I do believe it is easier to pick up other languages when one is familiar with 2 or more, and thus can comprehend 10 or 15 or more. (I don't know what the world record is but I believe the human mind can learn more than what we give credit) But I do support the fact that if a person was to be fully fluent in a number of languages, that person would have to be constantly exposed to all of them, perhaps at least once a day in all contexts. With more languages, it is impossible. I think I would go nuts constantly trying to switch from English to Spanish to German to Italian to Chinese to Portuguese to....


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## Justin Fredrickson

Para responder esta pregunta, supongo, en primer lugar, que depende del individuo. Sin embargo, hablando en terminos generales de las personas con una facilidad natural para los idiomas, pienso que asi como se les facilitan el aprendizaje y el manejo de estos, tambien es mas facil que se les olviden. Para saber el porque de esto, habria que meditar un poco porque, a dichos individuos, extranos idiomas y costumbres les vienen con tanta facilidad desde un principio: Pienso que es porque muchas veces son personas no muy identificadas con sus raices linguisticas y culturales por si, pero si con la parte formal del lenguaje, con la expresion de ideas, y con la cultura humana en general. Es por esta peculiaridad que, a tales personas, les resulta mas facil 'olvidarse' del idioma y de las normas sociales de donde vienen, al entregarse con tanto ahinco a otro sistema diferente. Pero, aunque si es posible perderse por el camino, creo que tambien hay vuelta atras.


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## Ainat

opsidol said:
			
		

> Hola, tengo mucho miedo de que algún día podría olvidarme de los idiomas para los que he trabajado tan duro para aprender. Me gustaría saber si realmente es muy fácil olvidarse de un idioma? ¿Cuánto tiempo de no usar el idioma tarda ante se empiece olvidar? ¿Hasta qué punto estén perdidos? ¿Es posible olvidarse de un idioma que ya se domina o aún su idioma nativo?


Yo pienso que si los idiomas no se practican, finalmente terminan por olvidarse, incluso nuestra propia lengua madre.
Alguien comentaba que un idioma empuja a otro fuera de su cabeza. Pues algo similar me sucede a mi, entre más alemán aprendo, mi inglés se pierde un poco, y sobre todo mi ortografía en inglés está siendo afectada, me es difícil recordar como se escriben ciertas palabras en inglés, pero si recuerdo perfectamente como se escriben en alemán.
Tal vez es cuestión de buena memoria y de práctica...


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## clipper

This thread is very reassuring ! My experience is very similar to that of many of you, as if I only have the capacity for one additional language. I once had a reasonable level of French after 7 years studying but now after learning Spanish to a reasonable standard the French has gone. The only difference or addition I´d make to the comments above is that I have only forgotten how to speak and write French, as if the words are not within my grasp, when I hear or read French I still understand more than I expect to.


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## Hakro

This problem can also be just the opposite: you can't forget.

About thirty years ago in Paris I had just learned a new word, _obèse_, and the same day I had an opportunity to use it in a conversation. After that, I have had absolutely no use for that word, but I can't forget it. There are hundreds, maybe thousands of French words I'd like to remember but I can't. I forget them in less than a minute. Instead, this _obèse_ stays always on my mind.


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## Roi Marphille

Well, this thread gives me the opportunity to inquiry about Hungarian language. 
I've been told, by Hungarian people, that their language is so difficult that some people may even forget it when they go abroad for some years and come back to Hungary.  
Is this some kind of Urban Legend or it is true? Would you forget your own language??? that's odd.


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## Hakro

Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> I've been told, by Hungarian people, that their language is so difficult that some people may even forget it when they go abroad for some years and come back to Hungary.
> Is this some kind of Urban Legend or it is true? Would you forget your own language??? that's odd.


It's probably true. I've seen this happen to Finns, and Hungarian is even more complicated than Finnish.


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## Roi Marphille

Hakro said:
			
		

> It's probably true. I've seen this happen to Finns, and Hungarian is even more complicated than Finnish.


yes indeed. Both are very difficult languages. 
I guess it depends on many things, such # years abroad, isolation...etc


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## Mikelos

When I visited Mexico for just _one week_, I had troubles with English when I returned. My verbal skills in Mexico were slower as I would put together sentences in my head as I went along. This also temporarily "retarded" my English, for when I returned, it would take me just as long to get a point across in English as it would in Spanish! This problem vanished after a few days, though.


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## WillyLandron

I don't think any one language is harder to remember than another. 
It depends on a lot of factors. 

For one, Finns who move to, say, the US are not going to find a lot Finnish speakers. Mexicans are going to have an easier time in that sense. 

It also depends on the person. Some people remember better than others and switch languages much easier than others.

Plus, who decides what forgetting is? How do you objectively state that someoné Hungarian isn' adequate anymore. 

According to many people most High School students in the US don't speak English adequately. 

So I think that's a question that depends on too many factors to come up with anything conclusive or even a helpful generalization.


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## mnzrob

I've been living in Germany for a little over 1.5 years, and I've definitely noticed my english getting worse. When I'm speaking to other english-speaking friends, I'll throw in some german words here and there, just because I can't remember the english words. When I go back to the US to visit, for the first few days, I'll have trouble communicating as fast as my brain thinks, because I can't come up with the words quickly enough. This is the same for my American and British friends here.
This works the other way too, though. When I'm hanging around German people for a weekend, where I don't speak any english, I notice that my German improves a lot in those couple of days, even though i'm completely fluent already. I just notice that my vocabulary and my slang improve. So I think you can learn just as quickly as you can forget, it just depends on your surroundings. When you forget a language, you can re-learn it very quickly.

Rob


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## AlfonsoHKG

if you have learnt a language close to a native level and at early age, you will never forget it and have no problems to have a conversation and understand everything.

If you do not use it for long time, you'll find problems to locate the right words in your brain. If you work in several languages and travel often, them you may have problems to find the words even in your own language.

That is my case, I can communicate in 8 languages. And all with something funny or problems (even my native language)


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