# Sex Sells



## Edher

Saludos,

           Why is it that in the late 90's some people wore around T-shirts with the slogan "Sex Sells"?  (In fact, I think some people still wear them presently) 

Is it because they are proclaiming themselves to be very sexually appealing to others as in "Use me as a walking/talking human billboard because whatever I wear will sell"? 

Or is it more an implicit pun of "Sex Cells" (Gametes) as in "I have sperms or ova, come and get it"?

Thank You,
Edher


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## te gato

Edher said:
			
		

> Saludos,
> 
> Why is it that in the late 90's some people wore around T-shirts with the slogan "Sex Sells"? (In fact, I think some people still wear them presently)
> 
> Is it because they are proclaiming themselves to be very sexually appealing to others as in "Use me as a walking/talking human billboard because whatever I wear will sell"?
> 
> Or is it more an implicit pun of "Sex Cells" (Gametes) as in "I have sperms or ova, come and get it"?
> 
> Thank You,
> Edher


Edher;
They are refering to the fact that "in ads" sex sells..Look at all the car shows..have a woman with big boobs, skimpy dress..standing by the car. With this the auto makers HOPE that the male population will purchase this car..in hopes to "GET" the girl..
An ad in Canada..for shampoo..use the shampoo and have an (sorry) orgasm..
How many women went and purchased the shampoo....we will never know.. 

te gato


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## angel of peace 1

It makes you look daring I have a shirt similar to that/
It say are you just going to stare at me (chest) or are going to kiss me?


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## Benjy

te gato said:
			
		

> Edher;
> They are refering to the fact that "in ads" sex sells..Look at all the car shows..have a woman with big boobs, skimpy dress..standing by the car. With this the auto makers HOPE that the male population will purchase this car..in hopes to "GET" the girl..
> An ad in Canada..for shampoo..use the shampoo and have an (sorry) orgasm..
> How many women went and purchased the shampoo....we will never know..
> 
> te gato



its a sad day when a comapany thinks it can sell a fridge fo example better by draping a semi naked woman on it. but i guess this is turning into a culture response so in conclusion te gato is spot on. its a coment on they way we advertise things. and its depressingly true.


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## gaer

Benjy said:
			
		

> its a sad day when a comapany thinks it can sell a fridge fo example better by draping a semi naked woman on it. but i guess this is turning into a culture response so in conclusion te gato is spot on. its a coment on they way we advertise things. and its depressingly true.


Yes. I fully agree with you and te gato here. Even now you will see some really good-looking young model (either sex) smoking a Camel or other brand of cigarette on TV Guide, and it always amazes me.


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## mjscott

After a long life of thinking that one's mind actually made one unique, the truth is, sex sells, to the abandon of all things cerebral--not to all, but even many times this is the case for people in power ....

....I had a friend who said that in middle school (6th through 8th grade) that people's brains migrate from their head to their sex organs....    

....Just look at the profiles of those high-profile people who didn't get there because of brains (and a lot of those who accompany them).


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## gaer

mjscott said:
			
		

> After a long life of thinking that one's mind actually made one unique, the truth is, sex sells, to the abandon of all things cerebral--not to all, but even many times this is the case for people in power ....
> 
> ....I had a friend who said that in middle school (6th through 8th grade) that people's brains migrate from their head to their sex organs....
> 
> ....Just look at the profiles of those high-profile people who didn't get there because of brains (and a lot of those who accompany them).


It's all about the "little head" thinking for the "big head". 

Our society has become quite sick because of this. Why do you think so many young people are starving themselves, trying to look like models? And not ONLY young people either…


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## te gato

gaer said:
			
		

> Yes. I fully agree with you and te gato here. Even now you will see some really good-looking young model (either sex) smoking a Camel or other brand of cigarette on TV Guide, and it always amazes me.


 
I agree..but what are you going to do..it works and the advertising companies know it...I am not saying that it is all men either...open up any magazine for woman...the perfume ads, the lingerie ads.....all have some great hunk of a stud in them...so the women think...Hummmm if I purchase that perfume or bra I can get the guy....I personally ask if the guy comes with... 

te gato


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## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> I agree..but what are you going to do..it works and the advertising companies know it...I am not saying that it is all men either...open up any magazine for woman...the perfume ads, the lingerie ads.....all have some great hunk of a stud in them...so the women think...Hummmm if I purchase that perfume or bra I can get the guy....I personally ask if the guy comes with...
> 
> te gato


Oh, I agree. It is equally stupid all around. The men think that if they go to a gym and pump up, they're going to "score with the babes".

In fact, I think the "hunks" and the "babes" get more IMMEDIATE attention, but people don't hang around long when they turn out to be self-centered idiots. 

Gaer


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## te gato

gaer said:
			
		

> Oh, I agree. It is equally stupid all around. The men think that if they go to a gym and pump up, they're going to "score with the babes".
> 
> In fact, I think the "hunks" and the "babes" get more IMMEDIATE attention, but people don't hang around long when they turn out to be self-centered idiots.
> 
> Gaer


Yes gaer;
they are pretty..or if you wish sexy..and sex sells!!   It is just too bad that the brain is not considered  sexy?...I have often wondered...
enough musing....
te gato


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## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> Yes gaer;
> they are pretty..or if you wish sexy..and sex sells!! It is just too bad that the brain is not considered sexy?...I have often wondered...
> enough musing....
> te gato


The problem is that I have rarely met "beautiful people" who were also very intelligent and very kind. When you meet such a person, it is shocking. 

Gaer


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## Artrella

YES SEX SELLS!!!  and we buy!!! Oh God!! We are so stupid!!! 


> It is just too bad that the brain is not considered sexy?...I have often wondered...



I consider a good brain far more sexy than a drop-dead-gorgeous man!! The brain is the sexiest part of a man! IMHO


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## Artrella

angel of peace 1 said:
			
		

> for me it depends on the guy before I buy sex




Angel, this is not about "buying sex".  I think this thread refers to the fact that advertising shows a lot of "sexy people" in order to attract people's attention and buy the products they want to sell.


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## Antartic

gaer said:
			
		

> In fact, I think the "hunks" and the "babes" get more IMMEDIATE attention,
> Gaer


I think this is part of the answer, Immediate attention. How long does it last an ad on TV? 30 sec or 1 min at most, so these people know that they have little time and they can't afford to waste it. Sad but true.
However, people very clever can make ads without this stuff.


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## gaer

Antartic said:
			
		

> I think this is part of the answer, Immediate attention. How long does it last an ad on TV? 30 sec or 1 min at most, so these people know that they have little time and they can't afford to waste it. Sad but true.
> However, people very clever can make ads without this stuff.


I assume ads are made the way the are made because the sell more products. I think that ads reflect who we are, as a society. The question is: are we slowly molded by advertizing, over time? Or is advertizing merely exploiting who we are?

For me that's a tough question.

Gaer


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## mjscott

RE: Angel of Peace and the big kids playing on the forum:

We big kids have allowed (maybe not us, personally, but as a society) sex to be the seller of so much, that our middle-school aged children are heading right for that vending machine before considering other options.

If we protest too loudly, we are considered prudish, Victorian, immasculated or in denial about real life. But to some extent, aren't we creating the real life vending machines from which these kids are buying?


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## jacinta

Angel,

This forum is for serious (usually  ) discussion of the English language.  This is not a chatboard.  Please do not make idle messages that say nothing.  This thread should really be in Culture, if at all.


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## cuchuflete

jacinta said:
			
		

> Angel,
> 
> This forum is for serious (usually  ) discussion of the English language.  This is not a chatboard.  Please do not make idle messages that say nothing.  This thread should really be in Culture, if at all.



Sorry Jacinta,
Culture is going through a makeover...It is open to serious threads, but we now have a rule that only those demonstrating a certain maturity can participate.

Angel--please think about whether a language forum is the best place to find the answers you are requesting.  You are certainly welcome here if you wish to discuss translations, grammar, or anything related to language.

saludos,
Cuchuflete


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> RE: Angel of Peace and the big kids playing on the forum:
> 
> We big kids have allowed (maybe not us, personally, but as a society) sex to be the seller of so much, that our middle-school aged children are heading right for that vending machine before considering other options.
> 
> If we protest too loudly, we are considered prudish, Victorian, immasculated or in denial about real life. But to some extent, aren't we creating the real life vending machines from which these kids are buying?


Hello mjscott;
I agree with you 100 % (one of the big kids)...but what can we do...as a person...or society..against huge corporations?? .....Behind every big advertising company with big bucks..is an even bigger product company with bigger bucks.... ban T.V.?...ban magazines?? ban billboards??...Sure we as a society can stop purchasing the products...but what do you do if you happen to like the product that was advertised with the "bimbos...bimbets"..(my male/female version).  I personally like some of the products..I am quite fond of shampoo and soap...Yes we can tell our children not to believe everything they see...hear....look at...because using that product will "not" get you the bimbos/bimbets....but being bombarded with it every day makes it a hard point to get across....

te gato


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## mjscott

I'm not sure what to do myself, te gato. Reading through the posts of this very thread make me ask if youths make up the culture, or if culture is making the youth. Saddened, I'm not sure what to do, myself.


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what to do myself, te gato. Reading through the posts of this very thread make me ask if youths make up the culture, or if culture is making the youth. Saddened, I'm not sure what to do, myself.


mjscott;

I feel that now..culture is making the youths of today...advertising has made it so that if you do not have the proper runners, jeans, shirts..yadda, yadda...you are considered a freak...If the girls are even remotely on the pudgy side...they are looked down upon...

In a society where "sex sells" and everyone vies to be skinnier, more beautiful, to fit the elusive mold of "sex goddess/god" I think we have lost the fundamentals of who and what we really are.

The sad part is....Sex still sells...if we want it to or not.

te gato


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## Benjy

hmm... can we spilt this thread across to culture.. i really want to discuss this but this forum isn't the place to do it


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> hmm... can we spilt this thread across to culture.. i really want to discuss this but this forum isn't the place to do it


 
I'm for it..
as long as it is fine with everyone else.
te gato


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## jacinta

Please read post #18 from Cuchu.  So, with my blessings, you may continue your conversation here.


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## Benjy

jacinta said:
			
		

> Please read post #18 from Cuchu.  So, with my blessings, you may continue your conversation here.



sweet 

so about youth.. i think one of the biggest problems is parents thinking that they can leave a vacuum when it comes to teaching basic moral/ethics to their kids and thinking that the media won't fill it. the problem is that the junk that is  pumped out of the box isn't really the way things really are. they only show the positive side of excess, never the consequences.

about sex selling. i think its just apealing to the rather basic side of human nature. we are set to reproduce. its normal. of course by nature we are also way more complicated than that.. we have emotions, feelings and all sorts of things that go into a relationship.. we aren't like dogs on heat =[ even though certain people i live with are trying their hardest to convince me otherwise

*sigh*


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> sweet
> 
> so about youth.. i think one of the biggest problems is parents thinking that they can leave a vacuum when it comes to teaching basic moral/ethics to their kids and thinking that the media won't fill it. the problem is that the junk that is pumped out of the box isn't really the way things really are. they only show the positive side of excess, never the consequences.
> 
> about sex selling. i think its just apealing to the rather basic side of human nature. we are set to reproduce. its normal. of course by nature we are also way more complicated than that.. we have emotions, feelings and all sorts of things that go into a relationship.. we aren't like dogs on heat =[ even though certain people i live with are trying their hardest to convince me otherwise
> 
> *sigh*


First of all....THANK YOU JACINTA..
Next..I agree with you..we can't just expect children to raise themselves...I do not agree with letting them sit in front of the "boob-tube" all day....and yes teaching them values, self respect, respect for others is very important...as I have stated else where...once they go out that door...they are on their own...they talk to the other children..see other stuff...what can you do??? 

As for "sex selling"....it's fact....a sad fact but a fact none the less....You can try and teach children that looking like a God/Goddess..will not always get you happiness...It might get you places at first but ..looks are fleeting...and a brain stays with you forever....I had a friend tell me once...that after a while it gets very hard to keep a conversation going with a bimbo/bimbet...I consider it window dressing...it might look like a gorgeous shop on the outside...but when you walk in it's in receivership..and there is nothing there!!!

I take it all with a ' grain of salt'..I like some of the products...(not that the claims are true) ...and the advertising companies have you....a lot of the items advertised with "sex" are necessities...you need them...and the advertising companies know it......You would just hope that the general public understands that it is just a ploy to have the product sold.....

I agree with Art..a brain is very sexy to me...
it just means that the porch light *IS* on and someone is home... 

te gato


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## Benjy

ahh but you see thats just it. if you teach them instead of a gap being filled they have something different; they have a choice to make. which something positive rather than to be feared


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> ahh but you see thats just it. if you teach them instead of a gap being filled they have something different; they have a choice to make. which something positive rather than to be feared


 
Hey benjy;

I agree with you ....I think??....It is all in the teaching.....or hopes that you have taught right.....
As I said.."a grain of salt" is needed...

One example: My niece..who is at that impressionable age....was watching t.v with me and one commercial came on..referring to the fact that if you use a type of body spray you are going to have MANY men running after you with flowers, phone numbers..yadda, yadda...
She turned to me and asked if that was true....I gave her that "Funny" look.. (like are you nuts)...and said...sure I use it everyday..and I am the Goddess of the century..and the men are just beating down my door!!

So it is all in how you teach them...what to believe and what not to....

and now this Goddess
shall let others vioce
their opinion... 

te gato


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## Artrella

If someone responds to a sex ad it's because it fulfills a need in their life.
If it doesn't fulfill a need then you will ignore it or even be offended by it. We tend to superimpose our selves on the people in the ad. We see ourselves as that lovely woman or man in the ad ,we dont realize it (subliminal message?)
To put it simply 'sex' sells because it is one of the most important things in our lives.
We are all caught, some people more than others ,it influences our thoughts.

But if we are aware of this kind of messages, we will be able to recognize what is better for us.


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## Benjy

Artrella said:
			
		

> If someone responds to a sex ad it's because it fulfills a need in their life.
> If it doesn't fulfill a need then you will ignore it or even be offended by it. We tend to superimpose our selves on the people in the ad. We see ourselves as that lovely woman or man in the ad ,we dont realize it (subliminal message?)
> To put it simply 'sex' sells because it is one of the most important things in our lives.
> We are all caught, some people more than others ,it influences our thoughts.
> 
> But if we are aware of this kind of messages, we will be able to recognize what is better for us.



needs != desires.

crack addicts want crack. do they need it?

what about kids exposed to this stuff? are they affected by it because they "need" sex shoved in their faces? or can media create a need that wasn't there to start with...

questions questions questions


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## Artrella

Benjy said:
			
		

> needs != desires.
> 
> crack addicts want crack. do they need it?
> 
> what about kids exposed to this stuff? are they affected by it because they "need" sex shoved in their faces? or can media create a need that wasn't there to start with...
> 
> questions questions questions



*
Kids exposed to that is terrible!!!* I just wanted to state the facts.  As I said before "brain is the sexiest feature in a person".  I don't need to have a naked man by a car's side to buy it, fortunately.  But there are a lot of people who need that.

*I have two kids* (11 and 7 years old), and I hate when they see this kind of ads, I don't know how to explain them that that is a lie, the same as tg's niece.

You are right in that it is dreadful that kids have sex "shoved" in their faces, and not only by ads, if you take your time to watch certain "manga" or -whatever they are called- cartoons, you will see that  "sex-oriented-ads" are "Snowhite" compared to those cartoons.
*
I fully agree with you Benjy*, I just was stating what I think happens in the human mind and behaviour.

Regards


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## mjscott

Problem I see as a middle school teacher:
Sex sells, and venders are vending.
Developing brains are developing with neuron connections going through synapses. The gaps are there, it is the choices kids make as to whether that neuron goes in one direction or another.
If te_gato could be everyone's aunt, just _there_, or available when the questions arise, this would be a better world.
te_gato-I am not as concerned with the "boob tube" today as I am with video games (I'm sure this will be painful to some of you video game junkies out there). The middle school newspaper (students from ages 11 to 14) ran a critique rating video games--_all of which were rated for adult play _(they shouldn't have even been allowed to play them)! I didn't know much about these games, but then my co-teacher, whose husband is hooked on video games said that one of the games in particular was about gang stuff, they drive the car, they get semi-automatic weaponry and rob a liquor store, they blow the back of a policeman's head off by shooting him in the face, they pick up a hooker and later slash her up and throw her out of the car. It's all very graphic. (You get extra points if you can hit the elderly old lady in the crosswalk.) It's not just the sex that sells. It's 11-year old Johnny fillling in the developing gaps in his brain with a video game while mom, dad, and other monitoring adults aren't available. Not only are neurons being formed by linking physical manipulation with visual and audial imagery, the adrenal glands fire, excite, stimulate, and often times have the brain asking for more. When stress levels reach a maximum the hypothalmus and adrenal glands work in tandem with the pituitary to create endorphins.

Sex sells because it is something that was created to be associated with pleasure. Culture is making our kids, folks. The synaptic paths created in developing minds are now starting to associate those same feelings of elevated adrenalin, emotion and endorphin release with twisted ideas of sex and violence. I'm not trying to sound prudish--I don't have the answers. (Though you need to know that the issue is being researched--not for morality reasons--we really don't know what effects will come from this--but because of the subsequent 'burn out' near-catatonic state of students to otherwise stimulating surroundings being an issue of concern to educators.) When strength of emotion is attached to an activity, emotional _de_tachment occurs when someone is trying to tell you otherwise, like, "Looking sexy in this brand of jeans is not going to give you happiness." (<--The message we try and tell our kids)

Sex sells. It has always sold--from Eve, to Cleopatra, to Mae West, to Marilyn Monroe to Paris Hilton--commercialization has just tried to groom purchasers by taking the same glandular neuron/synapse function that stimulates a response to sex and connecting it to a product. Media's links to jeans, perfume and cars don't nearly concern me as much as when they are now taking some of the same glandular neuron/synapse response, and connecting it in the same context as violent and dehumanizing crime--all for the sake of entertainment. Sex and emotional stimulation sells. Let's hope, with the media connections being made and that are available to developing minds, that it isn't selling a younger generation down a rosy path towards a less civilized society....


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## te gato

Sorry..the Goddess just had to come back...

mjscott..first of all..thank you for the complement..I would love to be everyone's aunt or just there when needed....my phone bill would be something else!!! 

As to the video games....this also is a pet peeve of mine....
yes we have to evolve as a person or as a culture, and world...but is this evolving?? The graphics in these are SO real and in most adult versions the content is disgustingly violent.! I do not have them in my home..I figure there is something better to do with my time then try and beat my T.V. at a game... but is this the way we wish to "evolve"? Where the kids think it is fun and games to blow someone away, hack them to bits..yadda, yadda....Are we teaching our children to have a conscious,  respect,??mmm I think not...Sure...ask the kids what they think and you will get.."aw, its just fun"...
Yet we have more drive-by shootings..more robberies..more rape...and so on...at younger ages .... Then when it comes to placing blame as to WHY Johnny robbed a store and shot two people in the process...you get..He didn't know right from wrong..he watched too much T.V, he played too many video games..and my personal favorite...the " song " on the CD told him to do it.... come on people!! Working for lawyers..what you see in society now would make you sick...

I have often wondered if it has to do with "wants"...People want more..therefore they must work more to obtain those wants...leaving the children to fend for themselves more and more?

Supply and demand....We demand more..we are supplied with more....never satisfied..we demand more..

te gato


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## Benjy

te gato said:
			
		

> Sorry..the Goddess just had to come back...
> 
> mjscott..first of all..thank you for the complement..I would love to be everyone's aunt or just there when needed....my phone bill would be something else!!!
> 
> As to the video games....this also is a pet peeve of mine....
> yes we have to evolve as a person or as a culture, and world...but is this evolving?? The graphics in these are SO real and in most adult versions the content is disgustingly violent.! I do not have them in my home..I figure there is something better to do with my time then try and beat my T.V. at a game... but is this the way we wish to "evolve"? Where the kids think it is fun and games to blow someone away, hack them to bits..yadda, yadda....Are we teaching our children to have a conscious,  respect,??mmm I think not...Sure...ask the kids what they think and you will get.."aw, its just fun"...
> Yet we have more drive-by shootings..more robberies..more rape...and so on...at younger ages .... Then when it comes to placing blame as to WHY Johnny robbed a store and shot two people in the process...you get..He didn't know right from wrong..he watched too much T.V, he played too many video games..and my personal favorite...the " song " on the CD told him to do it.... come on people!! Working for lawyers..what you see in society now would make you sick...
> 
> I have often wondered if it has to do with "wants"...People want more..therefore they must work more to obtain those wants...leaving the children to fend for themselves more and more?
> 
> Supply and demand....We demand more..we are supplied with more....never satisfied..we demand more..
> 
> te gato



ha! ms. te gato, it looks as if we are about to disagree. saying games make kids violent/commit crimes is like saying spoons make people fat. i will admit though that i can lead to desentisation towards violent media.


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> ha! ms. te gato, it looks as if we are about to disagree. saying games make kids violent/commit crimes is like saying spoons make people fat. i will admit though that i can lead to desentisation towards violent media.


 Ok then MR.benjy...disagree away... 

I did not say that video games made the children more violent..just that it added....I could go into so many cases that I have helped prepare for court...regarding "Violent Teens"..but I can not....Let me just say that...HERE...violence in children/teens is up at an alarming rate....and nine times out of ten the "little darlings" had no conscious what so ever....and were left at home to fend for themselves....and had their buts glued to the couch and noses stuck in a video game....I am not saying not to let them play...I just feel that it should be within the age range that is appropriate.....with adult intervening when deemed necessary...

You yourself stated that it desensitizes them....after hours and hours of playing this type of game...and days upon days...weeks upon weeks...yadda, yadda...how  desensitized do you think the "child" is going to be??

te gato


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## Benjy

te gato said:
			
		

> Ok then MR.benjy...disagree away...
> 
> I did not say that video games made the children more violent..just that it added....I could go into so many cases that I have helped prepare for court...regarding "Violent Teens"..but I can not....Let me just say that...HERE...violence in children/teens is up at an alarming rate....and nine times out of ten the "little darlings" had no conscious what so ever....and were left at home to fend for themselves....and had their buts glued to the couch and noses stuck in a video game....I am not saying not to let them play...I just feel that it should be within the age range that is appropriate.....with adult intervening when deemed necessary...
> 
> You yourself stated that it desensitizes them....after hours and hours of playing this type of game...and days upon days...weeks upon weeks...yadda, yadda...how  desensitized do you think the "child" is going to be??
> 
> te gato



i have been playing quake 3 for about 7 years. i think im a pretty stable individual. thing is, violent/unbalanced kids by nature comsume and enjoy violent material. kids get violent after all getting al pumped up at football games.. gang rape and the like. noone clamours for sports to be banned. its society and a more general acceptance of violence both in the home and out on the streets that causes problems. that said i would never play gta3 or let anyone under the age of about 15-16 go anywhere near it. i don't thnik liitle kids should have access to this kind of media. but the fault lies with the parents.. not games developpers. its like the garage jumpers in orlando, the parents trying to sue the city for not errecting fences.


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## Artrella

Benjy said:
			
		

> i have been playing quake 3 for about 7 years. i think im a pretty stable individual.




  My son plays the same game QUAKE 3!!!  And I think he is a stable individual as well... Seven years???


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## Benjy

Artrella said:
			
		

> My son plays the same game QUAKE 3!!!  And I think he is a stable individual as well... Seven years???



what can i say.. its been out for that long. my brother brought it for me for christmas all those years ago. i was but a young lad...


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> i have been playing quake 3 for about 7 years. i think im a pretty stable individual. thing is, viloent/unbalanced kids by nature comsume and enjoy violent material. kids get violent after all getting al pumped up at football games.. gang rape and the like. noone clamours for sports to be banned. it society and a more general acceptance of violence both in the home and out on the streets that causes problems. that said i would never play gta3 or let anyone under the age of about 15-16 go anywhere near it. i don't thnik liitle kids should have access to this kind of media. but the fault lies with the parents.. not games developpers. its like the garage jumpers in orlando, the parents trying to sue the city for not errecting fences.


 
benjy;
Can this point in red be debated??? (I'm kidding)

Sure because it is sports...most of the people were in the stands having a beer.(not that there is anything wrong with beer)...and not worried about the rapes and such...Here too, sports is a big thing and what goes on afterwards is never mentioned...

Second...I am not arguing with you..I agree...did your parents let you play that extent of "violent" games when you were underage?? I know mine didn't...as previously stated in my numerous documents...  this was the point I was getting at...yet the underaged children are getting to play....

Thirdly..It is back to supply and demand...more games are demanded so more are made...BUT...it is the developers that are making the games more graphic and violent..is it not?

Violent children are getting younger and younger..sure the parents have to shoulder most of the reasonability..but there are other factors at play as well...

te gato


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## Narda

I agree with all that you have said Te Gato, Gaer, Benji.   It is shameful and sad, but tell that to a 15 year old trying to find her place in life or to a young man trying to define himself.

On the other hand, sex has always sold --- there were just different ways in history, but that is how Salome got Herod to do what her mother wanted.

I have to confess I must be odd... I find brains very attractive.  I believe that a great, long conversation with somebody smart is very stimulating.  That's how I fell in love with my husband.  I still like to have long conversations with him.


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## Benjy

te gato said:
			
		

> benjy;
> Can this point in red be debated??? (I'm kidding)
> 
> Sure because it is sports...most of the people were in the stands having a beer.(not that there is anything wrong with beer)...and not worried about the rapes and such...Here too, sports is a big thing and what goes on afterwards is never mentioned...
> 
> Second...I am not arguing with you..I agree...did your parents let you play that extent of "violent" games when you were underage?? I know mine didn't...as previously stated in my numerous documents...  this was the point I was getting at...yet the underaged children are getting to play....
> 
> Thirdly..It is back to supply and demand...more games are demanded so more are made...BUT...it is the developers that are making the games more graphic and violent..is it not?
> 
> Violent children are getting younger and younger..sure the parents have to shoulder most of the reasonability..but there are other factors at play as well...
> 
> te gato



i guess i'm only really going to answer one point. i've always messed about with computer games. from the 8bit nes onwards but the truth is games have evolved so rapidly when i was a kid all that was avaliable was mario and sonic. pc's couldn't run stuff like doom 3 or gta. as soon as they came out i bought them. i would say that even if i had played gta3 as a 10 year old it wouldn't have seriously affected me. but thats me, and my upbringing. i consider myself lucky to have had parents who really took an interest in me on many levels. i hated it at the time though  i remember columbine.. those kids were playing quake. they were also stockpiling arms without their parents taking the slightest notice. they were listening to all sorts of messed up music and had totally immersed themselves in another world. and of course.. who took the blame? id software did. them and their evil game. i had been playing that stupid game since i was about 12/13 it came out in '95 i think. i have never even considered killing anyone.. media is what you make it. there were people who did crazy stuff way before video games. harold shipman murdered 250+ people and i doubt he even knew what the doom series was. the violence we see on the streets today is a reflection of the direction that society is taking.. a total rejection of moral priciples, of right and wrong. and that has very little to do with video games.


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## Artrella

Narda said:
			
		

> I have to confess I must be odd... I find brains very attractive.  I believe that a great, long conversation with somebody smart is very stimulating.  That's how I fell in love with my husband.  I still like to have long conversations with him.




Well Narda you can add me in your "odd women" list!


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## te gato

Artrella said:
			
		

> Well Narda you can add me in your "odd women" list!


Hay Art and Narda..Can I join your list as well??
I find brains very stimulating as well...
yet sadly not to many guys wish to Discuss things with me..wonder why? 
te gato


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## te gato

Benjy said:
			
		

> i guess i'm only really going to answer one point. i remember columbine.. those kids were playing quake. they were also stockpiling arms without their parents taking the slightest notice. they were listening to all sorts of messed up music and had totally immersed themselves in another world. and of course.. who took the blame? id software did. them and their evil game. i had been playing that stupid game since i was about 12/13 it came out in '95 i think. i have never even considered killing anyone.. media is what you make it. there were people who did crazy stuff way before video games. harold shipman murdered 250+ people and i doubt he even knew what the doom series was. the violence we see on the streets today is a reflection of the direction that society is taking.. a total rejection of moral priciples, of right and wrong. and that has very little to do with video games.


benjy;
i agree..I don't think it is All the games falt..there has to be a few screws loose to begin with..and I also agree that the parents take responsibility  but I was hoping that you would answer one of my queations for me..but sadly you did not...Do the game programers..designers..have to make the New games more and more violent??
Would the kids of today not be happy with what is available now?  Do we demand the making of more violent games?

te gato


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## lauranazario

Do you want to hear from a person who worked for a number of years in Advertising Agencies? 
Care to take a unique view into an advertiser's mindset and discover why "sex sells"?
I won't go into boring explanations, but rather provide a hodge-podge of reasons and you can take your pick at which one is better (or worse).

1) Sex is an instant attention-grabber. Yes, in TV your ad must capture a potential consumer's attention in less than 30 seconds and in a fraction of that before he/she turns the page and missed your print ad. A sexy image will make your eyes stop for a second look.

2) Sex will get people talking. Buzz is buzz and whether it's good buzz or bad buzz, if people are talking about your TV or print ad, it means they have noticed (and those who missed it will pay more attention next time they see it because of what the other person said). Increased brand awareness through sex.

3) Sex is glamorous. Sexy/appealing men and women can glamorize even the most mundane item (let's say a refrigerator) because we believe that some of the glamor factor of those 'beautiful poeple' will rub off on us if we buy the gadget that's being promoted. A carefully crafted ad will have people believe that a sultry look (directed at your mate) across that state-of-the-art coffee maker will magically provide the key to ultimate happiness and fulfillment.

4) Sex fulfills your fantasies. Many 'sex-sells' ads (or even TV programs) often flirt with the boundaries of what's socially accepted and what's best reserved for personal fantasies. Take for example the hugely successful Russian "news show" where female newscasters strip while while reciting the news. Fantasies fulfilled (those of men and of women who wish they could strip like that)... and a huge worldwide audience to boot!

5) Sex is "liberating". Remember the Diet Coke ad where they had all these office women in power suits readily (and lasciviously) watching a construction worker across the street? And we're supposed to 'believe' these no-nonsense professionals were just lusting after the moist, glistening can of soda on a sunny day... Uh-huh.

Using sex may be demeaning... underhanded... despicable... whatever you want to call it. But if it helps get my product noticed (and hopefully see a spike in its sales as well)... I have done my job as an advertiser.

Laura N.


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## lauranazario

For interesting articles on the "sex sells" aspect of advertising...

http://womensissues.about.com/cs/bodyimage/a/aasexsells.htm

http://www.medhunters.com/articles/itsAMadMadWorld.html

http://www.tekrati.com/T2/Analyst_Research/ResearchAnnouncementsDetails.asp?Newsid=4497


Saludos,
LN


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## gaer

lauranazario said:
			
		

> Using sex may be demeaning... underhanded... despicable... whatever you want to call it. But if it helps get my product noticed (and hopefully see a spike in its sales as well)... I have done my job as an advertiser.


I assume when you say "*I*" above, you are still giving us a look into the minds of the people who create ads, not saying that you approve. Because the way you worded you response, my impression of how you personally feel about all this is very unclear. 

Gaer


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## mjscott

No judgment. In my submission of information on video games, I was saying that:
1) no one knows the effects of whatever to each of us. It's like alcoholism or sex addiction or a gambling addiction--or whatever. (Please hear me out.) Some people can have a glass of wine with dinner. Some people cannot--they know by experience that they cannot handle it. The same with _anything that can become an addiction._


The deal with someone who is non-addictive, is that maybe he likes a glass of wine with dinner, but it does not permeate through his pores and cause a catatonic state during non-wine times, such as the following day--or a yearning when he is not drinking. (I am making an analogy.)


Should we judge all reactions to video games by one person's non-addiction? No!
Should we judge all reactions to anything by those that are obsessed and addicted with it? No!


2) *No one is watching these kids*. The addicted person who has their addiction under control _usually knows about this_ because at some point, the addiction was out of control. Children are children, and whether or not they have addictive tendencies to see something more violent next time is perhaps hard-wired (nature) or perhaps can come out because of life circumstances (nurture). If my child has an unquenchable sweet-tooth, I will monitor my child's diet. If my child sneaks into the liquor cabinet whenever I'm not looking and drains the bottles, I will lock the liquor cabinet. In fact, if it is a serious problem, I will abolish alcohol from the cabinet and the home altogether. Am I ignorant enough to believe that if my son or daughter wanted to drink or do drugs or whatever--that they couldn't find it on the street? No. Will my integrity in saying, "I don't care who you are, it is wise to stay away from something that controls you!" affect the future of my childrens' own decisions concerning their own lives? As God is my witness, I hope so!

3) The fact that they are packaging all of these emotions--sex, violence, outrageous acts against other human beings--all together concerns me. Emotional hype all comes from the same part of the brain. The question is, can you walk away from the joystick separating these emotions--separating one emotion from another? Will the simple innocence and pure beauty of sex as it was meant to be enjoyed be fulfilled in its entirety with a person of interest without peripheral garbage getting in the way? It is left to be seen--and that is as individual as addictive and non-addictive personalities.

Sex is natural. When we think about sex, advertisers want us to associate it with their brand of jeans, cars, perfume. It obviously works, or we wouldn't have them spending millions and billions of dollars on this type of advertising. Playing a video game is a personal and emotional experience. It raises more emotion in some people than a booty in a pair of jeans! OK. So you're in the same vein of emotion, and all this other periphery, as-well-as-sex is introduced into your thought patterns? Will this sell? It already has. Will it have its effect on society? We'll just have to see....

PS - If you don't think someone in your life is significantly and emotionally affected by video games, try a moratorioum--just for a week, and see what emotions you elicit....


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## gaer

mjscott said:
			
		

> Should we judge all reactions to video games by one person's non-addiction? No!
> Should we judge all reactions to anything by those that are obsessed and addicted with it? No!


I don't like video games, but I would agree with that. Everyone else in my family likes them, including my wife. But I do have a question: is there a point at which you think the games go too far?


> Am I ignorant enough to believe that if my son or daughter wanted to drink or do drugs or whatever--that they couldn't find it on the street? No. Will my integrity in saying, "I don't care who you are, it is wise to stay away from something that controls you!" affect the future of my childrens' own decisions concerning their own lives? As God is my witness, I hope so!


My experience: most people have at least a great deal of control over what their children do while the children are small. There comes a point when you have NO control, and often that point comes when they aren't old enough or mature enough to have any idea what they are doing. If they get involved in anything particularly crazy, the only thing you can do is stand by and hope that they will live LONG enough to remember what you taught them. 


Gaer


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## mjscott

Oh boy! Gaer--I _resemble_ that remark!
I hear you--been there--done that....


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## mjscott

....Of course, _it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings_, but so far, we have survived and the kiddos have grown more civilized and reasonable in their decisions. I like to think that some of their coming back to their senses was because I stuck to my guns!
--of course, if you live long enough, you see it all--people who are the epitome of bad examples who have upstanding productive children, and those who stick to their guns--and their kids stick to their guns with living a life of irrational decisions.

I would not, however, be able to sleep at night if I did not let my intentions on raising responsible contributors to society be known--at least to those of my own household!

"He who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


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## gaer

mjscott said:
			
		

> ....Of course, _it ain't over 'til the fat lady sings_, but so far, we have survived and the kiddos have grown more civilized and reasonable in their decisions. I like to think that some of their coming back to their senses was because I stuck to my guns!
> --of course, if you live long enough, you see it all--people who are the epitome of bad examples who have upstanding productive children, and those who stick to their guns--and their kids stick to their guns with living a life of irrational decisions.
> 
> I would not, however, be able to sleep at night if I did not let my intentions on raising responsible contributors to society be known--at least to those of my own household!
> 
> "He who stands for nothing will fall for anything."


I agree. For one thing, you have to keep on trying. You never know what will "stick" while you are "sticking to your guns". 

In fact, I can't get to sleep at night unless I feel that I have done everything I can do in the name of what I believe in. I suppose it is a matter of personal integrity. I just have to be careful to remember that I have no control over what works—and what does not. 

Gaer


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## Benjy

slightly off topic comment, but watching the natural progression of this thread is an interesting insight into the forum demograph 

aside from that... (paraphasing here) "you can't judge somethings affect by one persons reaction". of course, this makes perfect sense. so how about the vast majority? i would argue that the vast majority of gamers are not rapists or murderers. and even mor eimportantly that the vast majority of rapists and murderers were not geeks games addicts like myself. probably because i lack the physical constitution to actually be able to kill someone even if i wanted to. yep, the triggger really is too hard to pull for someone who's most strenuous activity is double clicking. 

about games getting even more violent:in my opinion games hit a brick wall a few years ago and they haven't as a whole really moved on much since then. there are exceptions. gta3 being one of them. mostly they seem to have stuck where the "acceptable line" is for most action films is today, why not lambast the film industry? also, not all games are violent in nature. and those that are have (for the most part) have content locks and filters for parents to acctivate. so if they are getting exposed to this junk before we deem they can handle it it really is because we aren't paying attention. i guess i'm just reiterating what i've already said so i'll stop 

getting back to the original topic a little. when i walk down the high street i don't see pictures of guts and blood all over the windows. however i will see semi naked women all the time.. topless is starting to become acceptable window dressing material. i don't want to see that. i really don't. if i get married andhave kids of my own, i don't want them everytime i go outside to have sex shoved in their faces because the adult popultation at large deems it acceptable. where's my choice in the matter. i gues i'll start shopping by internet of something.


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## lauranazario

gaer said:
			
		

> I assume when you say "*I*" above, you are still giving us a look into the minds of the people who create ads, not saying that you approve. Because the way you worded you response, my impression of how you personally feel about all this is very unclear.



Oh absolutely! I am definitely NOT saying using sex is right or wrong. In the mindset of an advertiser, using sex to sell a product is just one of the many 'tools' available to him/her... humor is another effective tool, using kids or animals (and their 'cute' factor) is another tool... it just depends on the strategy one chooses. 

Saludos,
LN


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## te gato

getting back to the original topic a little. when i walk down the high street i don't see pictures of guts and blood all over the windows. however i will see semi naked women all the time.. topless is starting to become acceptable window dressing material. i don't want to see that. i really don't. if i get married andhave kids of my own, i don't want them everytime i go outside to have sex shoved in their faces because the adult popultation at large deems it acceptable. where's my choice in the matter. i gues i'll start shopping by internet of something  (quote from benjy)

benjy;
I won't argue the games..you are for them because you play them...I have nothing against them..other than the fact that they are!! getting more violent...

As for the quote from you above..yes you are correct...WE have no choice...yet the advertizers got what they wanted from you...you noticed the ads, bill-boards....you might not like them..but you noticed them all the same...As for choice..we have none....necessity of items... supply and demand...what ever you wish to call it....will always be there..and money talks....sad...but true..

te gato


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## Benjy

te gato said:
			
		

> getting back to the original topic a little. when i walk down the high street i don't see pictures of guts and blood all over the windows. however i will see semi naked women all the time.. topless is starting to become acceptable window dressing material. i don't want to see that. i really don't. if i get married andhave kids of my own, i don't want them everytime i go outside to have sex shoved in their faces because the adult popultation at large deems it acceptable. where's my choice in the matter. i gues i'll start shopping by internet of something  (quote from benjy)
> 
> benjy;
> I won't argue the games..you are for them because you play them...I have nothing against them..other than the fact that they are!! getting more violent...
> 
> As for the quote from you above..yes you are correct...WE have no choice...yet the advertizers got what they wanted from you...you noticed the ads, bill-boards....you might not like them..but you noticed them all the same...As for choice..we have none....necessity of items... supply and demand...what ever you wish to call it....will always be there..and money talks....sad...but true..
> 
> te gato



i guess you're right in a certain sense (omg so french.. whats a more natural way to say that in english? =[ ). thing is i try to vote with my feet, and people who use gratuitous sex/swearing/violence or what ever to advertise their products, i try not to but them. it's getting alot harder though. like the stupid fcuk think (no not a typo.. french connection uk) i won't buy their clothes now. but thats just me. it seems as if we are trying as hard as we can now that we have enjoyed our childhood to steal it from our children. i swear my hair is going to turn grey on of these days 

ps hahah karen, you are more liekly to get blood out of a stone than to get me to say video games are evil.


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## cuchuflete

Benjy said:
			
		

> video games are evil.



There you go Karen, he said it!

Sex doesn't sell.  It attracts attention.  And nothing has changed in decades except that television, and even, perhaps, video games, have shrunk the imaginations of children.

Look at automobile or office equipment advertising from the 1950s or 1960s.

There were usually women in the ads, wearing ankly length dresses with high necks.  The viewer/reader added some imagination to the printed image, and saw 'sex'.  Now that we are into the second or third or fourth generation of people who had TV as a baby sitter and constant companion, and most young adults only read books to comply with school assignments, they have atrophied imaginations; thus advertising has to be more representational to attract attention.

Deny your children more than an hour of TV and computer games a day until they learn to enjoy reading.  They will still be subject to visual bombardment with prominent T&A, but they will *also* have some useful mental facilities.

saludos,
Cuchu


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## gaer

lauranazario said:
			
		

> Oh absolutely! I am definitely NOT saying using sex is right or wrong. In the mindset of an advertiser, using sex to sell a product is just one of the many 'tools' available to him/her... humor is another effective tool, using kids or animals (and their 'cute' factor) is another tool... it just depends on the strategy one chooses.
> 
> Saludos,
> LN


Okay, I think you were just trying to show us how advertisers think, right? 

By the way, there have been over 50 replies to this thread. If you like at the title, you have to wonder why there have been so many replies to this topic when so other equally interesting topics have been all but ignored. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





Gaer


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## Benjy

gaer said:
			
		

> Okay, I think you were just trying to show us how advertisers think, right?
> 
> By the way, there have been over 50 replies to this thread. If you like at the title, you have to wonder why there have been so many replies to this topic when so other equally interesting topics have been all but ignored.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Gaer



because by definition, if noone replies to them they are not interesting. 

discuss.

i digress 

i guess its something that i feel strongly about, that i have to deal with all the time. thus if a debate starts on the subject i can't stop my self from having a crack at it. the other thing is.. all the other subjects in here are about the english language. i am the suckiness at english (this sentence proves my point adequately ) and so i abstain from perpetuating my idiocy in the other threads.


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## gaer

Benjy said:
			
		

> because by definition, if noone replies to them they are not interesting.


Ah, but that was not my point. My point was that the TITLE has drawn some people to this discussion, which has gone far beyond sex, right?

And if you put a different lable on other topics, the title might initially cause more people to check it out.

Suppose the title here was: "The social implications of video gaming upon society in general?"


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## lauranazario

gaer said:
			
		

> If you like at the title, you have to wonder why there have been so many replies to this topic when so other equally interesting topics have been all but ignored.



I can only reply to this from a very personal perspective, Gaer.
Personally, I am not in the habit of replying to a thread just for the sake of increasing my post count or to make some sort of inane comment. Therefore, I post in those threads where I feel I can make a knowledgeable contribution. I have first-hand knowledge of the use of "sex-sells" in advertising so that's what I chose to contribute, including links to articles on that particular topic. 
_(You may or may not have noticed I have deliberately stayed away from the videogame subtopic present in this very thread)_. 

Saludos,
LN


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## lauranazario

gaer said:
			
		

> Ah, but that was not my point. My point was that the TITLE has drawn some people to this discussion, which has gone far beyond sex, right?



Ahhhhh, the undeniable power of advertising, my friend! 
Like I said a few posts back... whether we like it or not, "sex" renders a 'product' (in this case a thread) more _noticeable_.

Saludos,
LN


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## Benjy

gaer said:
			
		

> Ah, but that was not my point. My point was that the TITLE has drawn some people to this discussion, which has gone far beyond sex, right?
> 
> And if you put a different lable on other topics, the title might initially cause more people to check it out.
> 
> Suppose the title here was: "The social implications of video gaming upon society in general?"



heh. true.. i guess i can't really comment because i read absolutely everything on here and post more often than not unless the thread involves a (sub)culture that i know nothing about.


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## te gato

Hello All;

First of all..Thank you Cuchu...for pointing out that benjy did indeed say that video games are evil...(try and get out of that one benjy..I now have witnesses..) context or not..you said it....ha,ha,ha... 

I still say that it is sad the way things are going....and will continue going...
I fully agree with what cuchu said that if the parents limit the intake of TV, video games, and even movies....maybe we won't have to worry so much about the future generation...books are great!!...and nothing against movies, TV or even benjy's favorite past time..but limits have to be set..by the schools..parents..extended family...things are getting frightfull...kids are getting more violent, younger and younger...the cases that came across my desk..involving Children as young as 6 and 7...and violent cases...and why?...because the children are left with the easy babysitter..the Tv..Games..while mom and dad are out working their buts off to get that New Minni van advertized with the bimbett..that the dad liked so much...

There! the fat lady has sang!!...
no, wait...i'm not fat, and I've never been called a lady..... 
te gato


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## mjscott

....or, Denial ain't just a river in Egypt!

Oh, I hope you're all belly-laughing! I'm just so tempted by watching a bug squirm when you hold it between your fingers! (I was also devious as a child....)

Sex cells.
"Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark." 
_-Quote by some guy named James_​


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## gaer

Benjy said:
			
		

> heh. true.. i guess i can't really comment because i read absolutely everything on here and post more often than not unless the thread involves a (sub)culture that i know nothing about.


And I commented because almost nothing else was going ON. I had a whole queue of replies in email, which I rely upon to see what is going on.

I saw:

Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.
Sex Sells.

I am NOT kidding. So I caved in a replied. 

Gaer


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## Benjy

gaer said:
			
		

> And I commented because almost nothing else was going ON. I had a whole queue of replies in email, which I rely upon to see what is going on.
> 
> I saw:
> 
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> Sex Sells.
> 
> I am NOT kidding. So I caved in a replied.
> 
> Gaer



hahaha. the irony. i guess it does


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## gaer

Benjy said:
			
		

> hahaha. the irony. i guess it does


I think in the future I'll but "not about sex" in each thread I start. Probably someone will read and reply without seeing the word "not".
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Gaer


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