# have one <late> at work  [noun]



## zhonglin

Hi Folks,

Can I say "late" as a noun? For example:

1) I can't have one late at work within a month, otherwise I won't have a bonus.
2) I had two lates last month.


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## heypresto

I don't think so. What do you want 'late' to mean?


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## zhonglin

heypresto said:


> I don't think so. What do you want 'late' to mean?



the action in which you come in late at work. =]


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## heypresto

OK. I suppose it could be a term used by everybody in a particular company, where everybody would know what it meant, but it's not a usage that I've ever come across, and I doubt it would be generally understood.


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## kentix

Yes, if that is the term used in your office it's fine. But it doesn't have that general meaning everywhere.

When I was in school and a student came late the word we used was "tardy". They were tardy. So, if you came late twice in one week, we would say "You had two "tardies" that week. It's the same idea.


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## RedwoodGrove

zhonglin said:


> Hi Folks,
> 
> Can I say "late" as a noun? For example:
> 
> 1) I can't have one late at work within a month, otherwise I won't have a bonus.
> 2) I had two lates last month.


You can make any adjective into a noun, but you won't find it in a dictionary.


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## DonnyB

I've certainly seen it used as a noun in BE as a shortened version of "late shift": so you could say something like "I'm on lates next week".

But that's a different usage from _being late for work_, which is not _generally_ referred to as "a late".


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## JulianStuart

RedwoodGrove said:


> You can make any adjective into a noun, but you won't find it in a dictionary.


As post #4 indiates, a small group (such as one comany) may use a short form of a phrase as a noun to save time Similar to this use of outstanding as a noun representing outstanding bills This much/many outstandings?


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## heypresto

DonnyB said:


> I've certainly seen it used as a noun in BE as a shortened version of "late shift": so you could say something like "I'm on lates next week".



 Yes - that was my first thought too.


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## zhonglin

Thank you for all the advice! Can I ask if I can use the word late this way "*I was late earlier*" to mean "*I came in late earlier*"


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## JulianStuart

Um, the meaning is not clear - it's contradictiory, like "I was high lower"  Can you explain what you are trying to say and perhaps we can help  (Earlier than what/when?)


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## zhonglin

JulianStuart said:


> Um, the meaning is not clear - it's contradictiory, like "I was high lower"  Can you explain what you are trying to say and perhaps we can help  (Earlier than what/when?)



Thanks, sure! For example, you came in late at work, can I say to my friend "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"


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## heypresto

zhonglin said:


> can I say to my friend "*I* was late earlier because it was raining so hard"



Yes, It makes sense, and it would probably raise a smile on the listener's face.

You could also say something like 'I'm going to be early later', if, for instance, you intend to arrive at a meeting before everybody else. This might raise a smile too.


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## JulianStuart

zhonglin said:


> Thanks, sure! For example, you came in late at work, can I say to my friend "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"


The "earlier" isn't really necessary - but as hp says, it would raise a smile


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## Phoebe1200

zhonglin said:


> "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"


Does this sentence mean that this person has come to work for the second time? Doesn't 'earlier' here mean 'before'?


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## heypresto

Phoebe1200 said:


> Does this sentence mean that this person has come to work for the second time? Doesn't 'earlier' here mean 'before'?



No. It means that earlier today the speaker arrived to work late. Let's say that it's now 4 o'clock. The speaker is explaining that he or she was supposed to start work at, say, 9 o'clock, but was delayed by the rain and arrived at, say, quarter past 9 - ie 15 minutes late. So, 'I was late to work earlier.'


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## Phoebe1200

Thank you. But I still don't get it. What does 'earlier' mean in that sentence?


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## JulianStuart

Nine o'clock is earlier in the day than four o'clock (the time the sentence is said).


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## Phoebe1200

So 'earlier' does mean 'before'?


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## VicNicSor

I don't get it either. I get HP's example, though, about "going to be early later". But it's logical.

Earlier than what? Than "nine o'clock"? It doesn't make sense to me, because everything in the past was earlier than now (four o'clock).
Perhaps, "earlier than the person who just came late to work" In this case, I'd expect "I was late earlier *too*"...


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## JulianStuart

I hate these extended detailed discussions where there is no context provided, just a simple sentence 

Q:How did you get those apples? I thought you said you didn't have any.
A: I went to the store earlier (= earlier in the day = before now but since I last saw you)



VicNicSor said:


> Earlier than what? Than "nine o'clock"? It doesn't make sense to me, because everything in the past was earlier than now (four o'clock).


 That's why I said above that the "earlier" is not necessary


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## Barque

Phoebe1200 said:


> So 'earlier' does mean 'before'?


It means, in this context, "earlier in the day than the present time". As JulianStuart said, it's not necessary in that sentence.



zhonglin said:


> can I say to my friend "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"


You'd normally say: _I was late today because it was raining. _

You might use "earlier" if you were referring to a period in the past.
_Earlier, I'd often go late to work but nowadays I always get in on time. _


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## VicNicSor

JulianStuart said:


> Q:How did you get those apples? I thought you said you didn't have any.
> A: I went to the store earlier (= earlier in the day = before now but since I last saw you)



Still, "earlier" doesn't make sense to me here, if you mean it happened after he said he didn't have any. I'd expect: "A: I went to the store *after that*."


Barque said:


> _Earlier, I'd often go late to work but nowadays I always get in on time. _


I agree, this is a normal usage of earlier.


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## JulianStuart

VicNicSor said:


> Still, "earlier" doesn't make sense to me here, if you mean it happened after he said he didn't have any. I'd expect: "A: I went to the store *after that*."


The speaker was not referring to the point in time when he told the other person he didn't have any.  He is just using earlier to mean _earlier in the day_.  In fact he had told the other person about the apple situation the day before.  Just like what you might say to someone you meet in the afternoon: I was at the supermarket earlier, and I bought some apples.

From the Oxford entry



> 2.2*earlier* Before the present time or before the time one is referring to.
> _‘you met my husband earlier’_


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## VicNicSor

JulianStuart said:


> I was at the supermarket earlier, and I bought some apples.


But this is different. It's just a neutral statement. It is not the case in your example in #21 where A is emphasizing the fact that he bought the apples *after *they met last time.

A similar problem is in #12. He compares his being late with another person's being late who has just come in (if I understood the context correctly). So just saying "I was late earlier" is very odd unless they have a contest to see who comes late earlier...


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## JulianStuart

VicNicSor said:


> But this is different. It's just a neutral statement. It is not the case in your example in #21 where A is emphasizing the fact that he bought the apples *after *they met last time.
> 
> A similar problem is in #12. He compares his being late with another person's being late who has just come in (if I understood the context correctly). So just saying "I was late earlier" is very odd unless they have a contest to see who comes late earlier...


Nope. Earlier just means before the current conversation is taking place.  Any nuance is context-dependent. He is just using earlier to mean _earlier in the day_, when I was in the supermarket. He is not emphasizing the thing you think.  In "I was late earlier (today)."  The earlier is not incorrect, it's just not needed.


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## kentix

No, it's not a comparison. It's just a style of speaking. It's not necessarily a common thing to say but it's also not wrong. It would need some context to be meaningful. Think of it like this:
_
-- When I came to work earlier today (you might or might not have noticed me come in) I was late because of the rain.
_
Sum it up how?
_
I was late earlier._


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## JulianStuart

kentix said:


> No, it's not a comparison. It's just a style of speaking_._


 Perhaps that's where Vic is going wrong


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## VicNicSor

JulianStuart said:


> Earlier just means before the current conversation is taking place.


Yes, but in #21, the fact that it happened after that conversation is *more important* than the fact that it happened "earlier in the day". That's why "earlier" looks confusing there.


kentix said:


> No, it's not a comparison. It's just a style of speaking.


If it is not a comparison here:


zhonglin said:


> For example, you came in late at work, can I say to my friend "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"


... then what is it? Who is "you" and who is "I"?


JulianStuart said:


> Perhaps that's where Vic is going wrong


Note, I agree with all the examples of "earlier" here except for the two sentences I'm talking about


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## JulianStuart

VicNicSor said:


> Yes, but in #21, the fact that it happened after that conversation is *more important* than the fact that it happened "earlier in the day".


 You have added that judgement into _your own interpretation_.  The person who said it was informing the other person *when* they bought the apples - *earlier that day*.


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## Hermione Golightly

I haven't read all the posts, because I have only one thing to say about the phrase "I was late earlier", and that is, _it makes no sense_ in any context I can imagine.  Replace 'earlier' by an exact expression.


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## JulianStuart

Hermione Golightly said:


> I haven't read all the posts, because I have only one thing to say about the phrase "I was late earlier", and that is, _it makes no sense_ in any context I can imagine.  Replace 'earlier' by an exact expression.


But "I was sick earlier" doesn't sound weird.  It's the juxtaposition of late and early that is causing the dissonance, I fear


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## VicNicSor

JulianStuart said:


> You have added that judgement into _your own interpretation_. The person who said it was informing the other person *when* they bought the apples - *earlier that day*.


First, A didn't say "earlier today", he just said "earlier", which can refer to any day before that conversation, which is also confusing.
Second, if that conversation happened the day before and A wanted to say he bought the apples *today *(as opposed to "yesterday"), then "earlier" just strikes me as meaningless there... Again, "earlier" sounds fine to me in other contexts with this meaning, but not particularly here...


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## heypresto

VicNicSor said:


> If it is not a comparison here:





zhonglin said:


> For example, you came in late at work, can I say to my friend "i was late earlier because it was raining so hard"





VicNicSor said:


> ... then what is it? Who is "you" and who is "I"?



I understood zhonglin to mean '*I *came in late . . . and *I* said to my friend 'I was late earlier because I was delayed by the rain'. 

It simply means that earlier today I came to work late.

The slightly amusing juxtaposition of 'earlier' with 'late' is what prompted me to say, in my earlier post, that it makes sense but would probably raise a smile. And I further suggested that the similar juxtaposition of 'early' and 'later' might also raise a smile.

JulianStuart, quite rightly, said that 'earlier' wasn't really necessary, but it would raise a smile.

Unfortunately there haven't been many smiles since.


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## JulianStuart

VicNicSor said:


> First, A didn't say "earlier today", he just said "earlier", which can refer to any day before that conversation, which is also confusing.
> Second, if that conversation happened the day before and A wanted to say he bought the apples *today *(as opposed to "yesterday"), then "earlier" just strikes me as meaningless there... Again, "earlier" sounds fine to me in other contexts with this meaning, but not particularly here...


Then you don't yet have good understanding of the usage of the word earlier in English.  If you want to learn, be prepared to listen to native speakers and their explanations.

I'm just saying that in my context, when he said earlier he meant _earlier that day_ (the day* after *the apple shortage status was noted) .  The "earlier" is NOT a comparative version of early  and since the conversation takes place in the afternoon, the listener (being a native speaker too) will _immediately_ understand it means earlier that day.


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## heypresto

VicNicSor said:


> First, A didn't say "earlier today", he just said "earlier"


That's because he doesn't need to 'earlier today'. Simply 'earlier' is sufficient, and perfectly natural.

Cross-posted.


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## heypresto

JulianStuart said:


> The "earlier" is NOT a comparative version of early


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## VicNicSor

Ok, I understand this usage of "earlier", and that it is not the comparative of early. After all, we have the same usage in Russian. It's just the two particular contexts here I have problems with.

Similar to #21:
-- I'm getting married today.
-- But you said you'd never marry anyone when I saw you last.
-- I changed my mind *earlier*.

Technically it must be correct, because "earlier" means "before today", but would you ever say that? You'd say "after that" or something, wouldn't you?...


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## VicNicSor

heypresto said:


> I understood zhonglin to mean '*I *came in late . . . and *I* said to my friend 'I was late earlier because I was delayed by the rain'.


Oh, it just meant that. Then I get this one, thank you


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## Barque

Your example in #38 isn't similar to the one in #21. The nature of the situation is different.

Your example refers to a change of mind after the last conversation.

The example in #21 refers to something that was done after the first conversation between the two. "Earlier" works in that example. Something like "I bought some apples after we last spoke " would also work.


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## heypresto

I would understand it to mean earlier on the day this conversation was taking place.



VicNicSor said:


> because "earlier" means "before today"



No. It means 'sometime before this moment, but still _today_'.

Cross-posted.


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## heypresto

If you meant 'before today' you'd say something like 'I changed my mind yesterday/on Tuesday/last week/last month'.

Or, you could say 'I've changed my mind since (we last met)'.


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## VicNicSor

Barque said:


> Your example in #38 isn't similar to the one in #21. The nature of the situation is different.
> 
> Your example refers to a change of mind after the last conversation.
> 
> The example in #21 refers to something that was done after the first conversation between the two. "Earlier" works in that example.


How is it different?... The "change of mind" is "something that was done" too, right?

So, in both cases, something was done between two conversations



heypresto said:


> No. It means 'sometime before this moment, but still _today_'.





heypresto said:


> I would understand it to mean earlier on the day this conversation was taking place.


Why "earlier on the *day*"? Why not that week/month/year... Why day? I mean, would it even sound normal to you?...


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## heypresto

VicNicSor said:


> would it even sound normal to you?


Yes. As I said earlier, several times I think, 'earlier' means 'earlier today'.



VicNicSor said:


> Why not that week/month/year


Because we would then say 'last week/month/year'. See my post #42.


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## kentix

heypresto said:


> Because we would then say 'last week/month/year'. See my post #42.



Earlier = earlier today

If it was a:
previous day this week  - earlier this week
previous day this month - earlier this month
previous day this year - earlier this year

_I changed my mind earlier this year and decided to get married after all._


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## JulianStuart

heypresto said:


> That's because he doesn't need to 'earlier today'. Simply 'earlier' is sufficient, and perfectly natural.
> 
> Cross-posted.



Spoken like a true native speaker 


kentix said:


> Earlier = earlier today
> 
> If it was a:
> previous day this week  - earlier this week
> previous day this month - earlier this month
> previous day this year - earlier this year
> 
> _I changed my mind earlier this year and decided to get married after all._



Or with appropriate _context,_ we can use earlier on its own to mean something other than today.

I'm at a several-day business meeting and there's a cocktail party on the first evening where spouses are invited.  I am briefly introduced to my colleague's husband.  Then there's another reception a few days later and she is with her husband again.  I am looking a little confused and she thinks perhaps I'm not recalling my earlier meeting (I met several dozen people and their spouses the first day!) and she says "You met my husband earlier" (just like the dictionary entry above )   She might also have said, "You met my husband earlier in the week" but "earlier" would be sufficient, because it must have been at the earlier event. 
These usages can be confusing for a non-native speaker to grasp


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## Hermione Golightly

'Late' here refers to some specific time, beyond the correct time, let's say 7.00 hrs. The worker is either late or early, either after or before that time.
'I've been late earlier' can't be correct. 'I've been late before' or 'I've already been late ( this week)' and many other possibilities, are correct but not 'late earlier'.
I think the OP means 'late _before', _a very understandable mistake.
How many times can a person 'be late' in one day?


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## kentix

Hermione Golightly said:


> "I've been late earlier" can't be correct.


You're right, it can't. But you're the first one in the thread to use that phrase. I checked all 22 entries for "late earlier" to be sure. The phrase discussed has always been:

_-- *I was* late earlier._


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## heypresto

kentix said:


> Earlier = earlier today
> 
> If it was a:
> previous day this week  - earlier this week
> previous day this month - earlier this month
> previous day this year - earlier this year
> 
> _I changed my mind earlier this year and decided to get married after all._


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## VicNicSor

heypresto said:


> Yes. As I said earlier, several times I think, 'earlier' means 'earlier today'.


Actually it was supposed to be an absurd usage, so I'm surprised it looks normal. Two men -- A and B meet years later after the last conversation when A told B he'd never marry. And -- what a coincidence! -- A is marrying TODAY, on the day they met. Now your interpretation of "earlier" makes the context even more unbelievable -- not only does he marry today, but today he also DECIDED to marry And expressing this idea with "I changed my mind *earlier*." sounds so extremely odd to me that I would have never thought anyone would ever say that in this situation


JulianStuart said:


> I'm at a several-day business meeting and there's a cocktail party on the first evening where spouses are invited. I am briefly introduced to my colleague's husband. Then there's another reception a few days later and she is with her husband again. I am looking a little confused and she thinks perhaps I'm not recalling my earlier meeting (I met several dozen people and their spouses the first day!) and she says "You met my husband earlier" (just like the dictionary entry above ) She might also have said, "You met my husband earlier in the week" but "earlier" would be sufficient, because it must have been at the earlier event.
> These usages can be confusing for a non-native speaker to grasp


The usage above, as many others here, is absolutelly normal to me, and, as I mentioned earlier, we have the same word in Russian -- which looks like a comparative but means what it means here


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## heypresto

VicNicSor said:


> Actually it was supposed to be an absurd usage, so I'm surprised it looks normal. Two men -- A and B meet years later after the last conversation when A told B he'd never marry. And -- what a coincidence! -- A is marrying TODAY, on the day they met. Now your interpretation of "earlier" makes the context even more unbelievable -- not only does he marry today, but he also DECIDED to marry today



You've added some more context than you gave at the time, but it still doesn't alter what 'earlier' means. If he had meant that he changed his mind yesterday/last week/month/year, he would have said as much. Either he would have said 'I changed my mind yesterday/last month/last year/at my brother's birthday party last September', or, as kentix suggested, 'I changed my mind earlier this week/month/year'.



VicNicSor said:


> And expressing this idea with "I changed my mind *earlier*." sounds so extremely odd to me that I would have never thought anyone would ever say that in this situation



You underestimate us. We say the strangest things.


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## Barque

VicNicSor said:


> Actually it was supposed to be an absurd usage, so I'm surprised it looks normal...what a coincidence! -- A is marrying TODAY, on the day they met...not only does he marry today, but today he also DECIDED to marry


I think we all realised that - that it's an exceptional situation. That's why I said it's a different situation from the one described in #21, which was a very commonplace one.


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