# Laughing and crying



## yallah

Marhaba and hi everybody,

a friend of mine plans to have a tattoo done - it shall be "laughing and crying" in Arabic, representing by these two words a symbol for the fact that life is sometimes hard and sometimes wonderful.

I used to learn Arabic some years ago and suggested her the following:

 ضَحْكَة ودَمْعَة 
  (sorry for the bad script)


I would be really glad if someone could tell me whether this is a good solution or if something else might be better. Especially with "crying", I am not really sure. "Damaa" literally translated means "tear" as far as I know, but I think that it might be idiomatic in this context - but as I said, I am not sure.

Any help would be appreciated, of course especially from native speakers!

Thank you so much, shukran jazilan!


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## elroy

Welcome to the forum. 

I would suggest ضحك وبكاء.

ضحكة ودمعة means "a laugh and a tear."


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## yallah

Thank you - for welcoming me as well as for your answer! 

One more question - ضحك is a verb, بكاء a noun, isn't it? So is it possible to mix the two in this context?

In the "original" version (German), both were supposed to be nouns, but of course, in Arabic, the usage might be different...

Thanks again for your help!


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## elroy

ضحك is a noun in this context.

What's the original German, "Lachen und Weinen"?  If so, then my suggestion works perfectly.


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## yallah

Great, you also know some German!  Yes, exactly, it is "Lachen und Weinen"!  

Ok, then I will hand over your suggestion ضحك وبكاء to my friend, thank you so much!

Just one question in the end: What is the vocalization then of ضحك ? As a verb it would be dh*a*-h*i*-k*a* I guess... Is it the same here?


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## flowerangel

hello yallah,
in an aswer for your last question i would say, no, it has got another vocalization as a noun, we pronounce it *dha-hik. *without the sound of the a at the  end.


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## elroy

Flowergirl hat Dir schon richtig geantwortet.


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## yallah

Hi flowerangel,

thanks a lot also for your answer.  So, vocalized and grammatically correct it would look like like that:  ??

*ضَحِكٌ وبُكاءٌ*
  (dhahikun wa-buka'un - sorry, I obviously have a problem here in connecting the letters...)

And if not, could anyone give me the correct vocalized version? Thanks for your help and patience!


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## yallah

@ elroy:

Danke fuer die Bestaetigung!  Jetzt brauche ich, wie eben gepostet, nur noch die korrekte Vokalisierung - und dann ist alles perfekt!


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## elroy

yallah said:


> *ضَحِكٌ وبُكاءٌ*
> (dhahikun wa-buka'un


 Das ist alles richtig. Wenn Du aber eine vollständige Vokalisierung möchtest, brauchst Du noch zwei Zeichen:

*ضَحِكٌ وَبُكَاءٌ*

Deine Transkription ist einwandfrei (wobei ich für ض eher _D_ verwendet hätte - und _dh_ für ذ - aber das ist Geschmackssache). Du könntest für das ا _aa_ anstatt _a_ verwenden, um die Länge des Vokals wiederzugeben, aber das kommt darauf an, wie präzise die Transkription sein soll bzw. zu welchem Zweck Du sie brauchst.


> sorry, I obviously have a problem here in connecting the letters...


 Bei mir sieht es richtig aus, vielleicht handelt es sich also um ein technisches Problem.


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## yallah

Ok, super, tausend Dank noch mal, nun hab ich es! So ist es denke ich perfekt, sieht mit Vokalisierung einfach noch schöner aus!

Die Transkription brauche ich gar nicht, habe ich nur benutzt weil Arabisch tippen für mich sehr umständlich ist...  Aber danke auch hier für den Hinweis!


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## clevermizo

How about that - I've always been reading this word بِكاء _bikaa2_ . Thanks.


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## ayed

> a symbol for the fact that life is sometimes hard and sometimes wonderful.


If so, then I prefer : afraah wa atraah أفراح وأتراح


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## elroy

clevermizo said:


> How about that - I've always been reading this word بِكاء _bikaa2_ . Thanks.


 In Palestinian Arabic, both "buka" and "bika" occur.  I would imagine that the latter, which is the common pronunciation in the Galilee, is the one used in Syrian/Lebanese, so that was probably the source of the confusion.


ayed said:


> If so, then I prefer : afraah wa atraah أفراح وأتراح


 Not a literal translation, but a nice Arabic expression that Yallah might want to consider! 

Yallah, أفراح وأتراح literally means "Fröhlichkeiten und Betrübnisse."


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## yallah

Thanks, ayed and elroy, for mentioning and explaining أفراح وأتراح !

Sounds also really good and I will suggest it to my friend - although as far as I understood, she would like to have the two two terms "laugh" and "cry" in the tattoo.

But anyway, thanks for this expression!


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## Reema

You can also say


حلوة ومرة
.
.
sweet and bitter​


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## huhmzah

I'm just curious to know whether using the adverbial forms of these words would be more appropriate here than "a laugh & a cry" or "to laugh & to cry".

I'm not sure what they'd be, but my guess is: ضحكا و بكاء
Da7ikan wa Bukâ2an
"Laughing & Crying"

As in:
عاش عمره ضحكاً و بكاءً
 
3asha 3umrahu Da7ikan wa bukâ2an
He lived his life, laughing and crying.

or... لنعيش عمرنا ضحكا و إبتسما

"lana3îshu 3umrana Da7ikan w-ibtasiman" --> Let's live life Laughing & Smiling.

[P.S -- Arabic isn't my native language -- so natives  if my grammar's completely wrong, try not to freak out , I'll get there eventually... إن شاء الله]


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## elroy

Well, since the original German uses nouns, the version with the مصادر in Arabic is closer to the original. 

A couple of corrections: 



huhmzah said:


> لنعش عمرنا ضحكا و ابتسما
> 
> "lina3ishu 3umrana Da7ikan wa-ibtisâman" --> Let's live life Laughing & Smiling.


 Also, I think I would prefer لنعش عمرنا ضاحكين ومبتسمين or لنعش عمرنا بضحك وابتسام.


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## suma

ayed said:


> If so, then I prefer : afraah wa atraah أفراح وأتراح


 
 It conveys the meaning of life's moments of happiness and sadness, plus it's more poetic and elegant.


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