# pronunciation of o at the end of a word?



## HollyH

Olá, amigos.

I have a small question (the first of probably very many)...  I've seen some pronunciation guides that indicate an "oo" sound, as in the English "boo", and others that indicate an "o", more like the Spanish.  Is an o at the end of a word always the same?  Or is there a rule to follow?  I'm thinking, for example, of the words "prato" or "braço".   

obrigada!

-holly


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## ronanpoirier

Hello.

Yes, the "o" in the end of a word sounds like "oo" in "boo" as you said. But that only happens when the last syllabe is unstressed (like "braço" or "prato"). 
If it is stressed, it will have an accent over it to indicate if it is a closed or an open pronunciation.
Sometimes an unstressed "o" in the middle of a word can sound like "oo" but that's another story.


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## HollyH

That's lovely, thanks very much.  This may be remedial, but what is an open or closed pronunciation?  

cheers!


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## ronanpoirier

HollyH said:


> That's lovely, thanks very much.  This may be remedial, but what is an open or closed pronunciation?
> 
> cheers!



Open O - it is indicated by the acute accent and it is something like the "o" in "more". It happens in words like avó, sorte, pobre, viola, só, cólera, etc.

Closed O - it is indicated by the circumflex accent and it is something like the "o" in "show". It happens in words like avô, couve, roxo, porto, econômico, etc.


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## morphine

I'm no expert in any aspect of the language, but I'd like to point out that the ending "o" sound is very short and even subtle. Thus stating that it sounds like "boo" _might_ be a problem.

If I'm correct, "boo" has a (sort of) long "oo" sound.
A word like "roberto" would sound like (caps for stress) "row-BEAR-too" then, but it's more like "hoe-BERT(u)".

As with any language, I'd advise to listen to a song or get a "novela" chapter on Youtube.


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## avok

Yes it is like the "u" sound in L*oo*k/B*oo*k, not the one in L*u*ke.

But

Many Brazilians (all of them ?) pronounce "do" (along with "o") as "dô" rather than "du" as in European Portuguese. I have yet seen only one Brazilian who actually pronounced "o" and "do" as "u" and "du" respectively.


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## Vanda

avok said:


> Yes it is like the "u" sound in L*oo*k/B*oo*k, not the one in L*u*ke.
> 
> But
> 
> Many Brazilians (all of them ?) pronounce "do" (along with "o") as "dô" rather than "du" as in European Portuguese. I have yet seen only one Brazilian who actually pronounced "o" and "do" as "u" and "du" respectively.



Avok, you have confounded  nations' pronunciation, most of us say du.


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## HollyH

Wow, thanks y'all!  I'm delighted to have some more concrete ideas about pronunciation.  It's tricky starting out, I really want to have the correct sounds in my brain (and subsequently my mouth). 

Morphine, I think getting a novel chapter seems like a winning idea -- obrigada!

Cheers!


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## Vanda

You'll find lots of pronunciation resources here.


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## HollyH

Thanks, Vanda.  The WordReference is so great!


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## avok

Vanda said:


> Avok, you have confounded nations' pronunciation, most of us say du.


 
What?  Hmmm I might have "o" and "do" confused...I know, for a fact, that Brazilians have "ô" whereas the Portuguese have "u" but I still think Brazilian "do" does not sound like European Portuguese "du". Hmmm Vanda how do you pronounce the article "o"?


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## Denis555

Avok, I think we all (Brazilians) pronounce the article "o" as oo in boo. The combination "do" (de+o) is pronounced "doo" or like the word "do" as in "how do you do?"
I also think that in this case there's no difference in pronunciation with that of Portugal...


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## Ricardo Tavares

Denis555 said:


> Avok, I think we all (Brazilians) pronounce the article "o" as oo in boo. The combination "do" (de+o) is pronounced "doo" or like the word "do" as in "how do you do?"
> I also think that in this case there's no difference in pronunciation with that of Portugal...



I Agree.


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## avok

Then how come my friends pronounced "o" (the article) as "oh" but not "u"? They were from Sao Paulo.


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## Vanda

If I am saying the vowels alone, like a e i o u, I surely pronounce ó, but in the end of a word, me and the rest of Flamengo's fans would pronounce it as Dennis explained above, /du/.


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## Frajola

Vanda said:


> If I am saying the vowels alone, like a e i o u, I surely pronounce ó, but in the end of a word, me and the rest of Flamengo's fans would pronounce it as Dennis explained above, /du/.


 
You are definitely on to something there, ModTeresa, I mean, Vanda. I think this is the source of the confuson for Avok.

Avok, you probably had your paulista friends sound out the alphabet vowels, and sure enough they said 'oh' for 'o'. Have them sound it out in a string of words instead, something like:

_Onde é o banheiro?_

And you'll sure hear 'oo' for 'o' there.


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## HollyH

it's interesting that y'all native speakers have some dissension on the pronunciation... that makes me hope that even if I don't do it 100% correctly, nobody will know the difference.   tee hee.


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## Ricardo Tavares

HollyH said:


> it's interesting that y'all native speakers have some dissension on the pronunciation... that makes me hope that even if I don't do it 100% correctly, nobody will know the difference.   tee hee.



I doubt it !! we can smell a gringo miles away of distance....


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## avok

Frajola said:


> You are definitely on to something there, ModTeresa, I mean, Vanda. I think this is the source of the confuson for Avok.
> 
> Avok, you probably had your paulista friends sound out the alphabet vowels, and sure enough they said 'oh' for 'o'. Have them sound it out in a string of words instead, something like:
> 
> _Onde é o banheiro?_
> 
> And you'll sure hear 'oo' for 'o' there.


 
No, they pronounce *the article* "o" as "oh" not as "oo". This was the first difference I had noticed. (vs European Portuguese). But when they speak fast, "o" becomes closer to "u". 
Even one of my friends from Sao Paulo pronounced "pouc*o*" as /poko/ like in Spanish whereas the other Brazilians said /pok(u)/.

The Brazilians who pronounced "o" and "do" as "oh" and "doh" respectively came from "Curitiba, Sao Paulo and Belem" and the only one who pronounced them as "u" and "du" came from "Brasilia".

Bye


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## Denis555

Very strange, indeed.
The only explanation I can think of for what you've just mentioned is that your Brazilian friends (with the exception of the one from Brasília) are trying to speak slowly with you and making clear that they pronounce each letter almost as they are in the alphabet in order to let you know how you should write the words...
Often this "method" is used to teach small children how to write the words.

If you're still not convinced, the only thing I can say is that we've been exposed to thousands (or rather millions) of times to the way people speak in Brazil through close contact or television, music, radio, etc as we're Brazilians, too. And in that case we would have heard or noticed something of the kind as statistically you're talking about 3 cities (or people) out of 4 would pronounce this way.


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## Frajola

Denis555 said:


> The only explanation I can think of for what you've just mentioned is that your Brazilian friends (with the exception of the one from Brasília) are trying to speak slowly with you and making clear that they pronounce each letter almost as they are in the alphabet in order to let you know how you should write the words...


 

Denis, your assumption seems very likely I think. Pronouncing /po-ko/ rather than /po-ku/ for 'pouco' sounds way odd, maybe more robotic than saying /e-ve-ry/ for 'every', rather than the usual /e-vry/ of everyday speech (no pun intended!)


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## Macunaíma

Not even when I try to say pouco _very_ slowly the last o comes out as a proper o sound. The only difference is that I say /pouku/ instead of the usual /poku/. The ending o is always (more or less) like _o_ in _do_, as Denis said.


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## Outsider

HollyH said:


> I have a small question (the first of probably very many)...  I've seen some pronunciation guides that indicate an "oo" sound, as in the English "boo", and others that indicate an "o", more like the Spanish.


I would say that it's like the "o" in "do". It's a short sound, and can become very short indeed in casual speech.

This may not apply to all dialects, though.  



HollyH said:


> Is an o at the end of a word always the same?


As long as there are no diacritics on it, it's always pronounced the same in isolation. When words are strung together, sometimes it's shortened to the point where it becomes a semivowel [w], or merges with a vowel that follows it. See this recent thread.


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## Alandria

avok said:


> No, they pronounce *the article* "o" as "oh" not as "oo". This was the first difference I had noticed. (vs European Portuguese). But when they speak fast, "o" becomes closer to "u".
> Even one of my friends from Sao Paulo pronounced "pouc*o*" as /poko/ like in Spanish whereas the other Brazilians said /pok(u)/.
> 
> The Brazilians who pronounced "o" and "do" as "oh" and "doh" respectively came from "Curitiba, Sao Paulo and Belem" and the only one who pronounced them as "u" and "du" came from "Brasilia".
> 
> Bye



In the São Paulo Capital, they pronounce like "oo", but in parts of interior (sorocaba, limeira) they pronounce "oh". IN southern Brazil the "o" pronunciation like "oh" is very common.

Example of non-reduction of final vowels in southern Brazil.


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## Outsider

Which voice in the video do you mean, Alandria?


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## Alandria

Outsider said:


> Which voice in the video do you mean, Alandria?



I mean the two old women at 00:20 and the teacher of geology at  02:36.

He says (at 02:36):

"na região litorânea *dê *Paraná e São Paulo tem uma zona sísmica... sismogênica. Ali tem falhas geológicas, e uma dessas falhas, chamada falha *dê *Santos, se movimentou. Os blocos formaram, então, uma onda dê choque, cuja magnitu_*dê *_todos conhecem agora dê cinc_*ô*_ pont_*ô *_dois. É um fenômeno geológico pra esta região relativamen_*tê*_ comum, o qu*ê *nos espantou até agora foi a magnitu*dê dê *cincô ponto dois, foi o que significou o sexto maior terremoto ocorrido no Brasil desdê os registros *dê* long_*ô*_ temp_*ô*_."


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## Outsider

I agree about the "ê"s, but I honestly can't hear the "ô"s. They all sound pretty much like "u"s to me...


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## avok

Hi,

Thanks for the video, especially one of the women has a very strange accent, she rolls her double r's just like some Portuguese people do!

To make things a little bit clear.

- theres no problem about the pronunciation of "o" at the end of a word.  It is *"u",* my problem is the pronunciation of the article *"o"* and *"do".* To me, Brazilian pronunciation of these two is closer to "oh" and "doh" respectively unlike in European Portuguese.

Here you can listen to the guy saying "*o *dia todo" : "*oh *dia todu" : 01:57. 

Here  you can listen tothe guy saying "onde fica *o* banheiro": "onde fica *oh* 
banheiru"  : 04:50


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## Vanda

Hello guys,

Quando forem colocar _links _para vídeos, por favor, certifiquem-se de que sejam sem problemas de _copyright _e me mandem uma mensagem confirmando isso, para que eu não tenha o trabalho de ficar procurando por direitos infringidos ou não. Nem sempre tenho tempo de procurando e enviando PMs para todos. A partir disso vou deletá-los simplesmente!


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## olivinha

avok said:


> Hi,
> 
> Thanks for the video, especially one of the women has a very strange accent, she rolls her double r's just like some Portuguese people do!
> 
> To make things a little bit clear.
> 
> - theres no problem about the pronunciation of "o" at the end of a word. It is *"u",* my problem is the pronunciation of the article *"o"* and *"do".* To me, Brazilian pronunciation of these two is closer to "oh" and "doh" respectively unlike in European Portuguese.
> 
> Here you can listen to the guy saying "*o *dia todo" : "*oh *dia todu" : 01:57.
> 
> Here you can listen tothe guy saying "onde fica *o* banheiro": "onde fica *oh*
> banheiru" : 04:50


 
Those examples are extracted from a Brazilian Portuguese lesson, where people are pronouncing the words very slowly to make sure the students are able to listen/understand them. But, as you know, nobody talks like that. 
I do say "u dia todu" and "onde fica u banheiru."
Please believe us!


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## avok

olivinha said:


> Those examples are extracted from a Brazilian Portuguese lesson, where people are pronouncing the words very slowly to make sure the students are able to listen/understand them. But, as you know, nobody talks like that.
> I do say "u dia todu" and "onde fica u banheiru."
> Please believe us!


 

Ok.. This is , to me, how Brazilians pronounce "o" and "do". It is not "u" and "du".

Vanda, I think this attachment is Ok because it is me


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## Outsider

Avok, that sounded like [u du] to me!


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## avok

Hahaha maybe...those Brazilians scared me! I could not open my mouth for "ohhhhh" and "dohhhh" 

Actually my  "do" is like a bit "du" in the attachment , I admit it. But "o" is like "oh"


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## olivinha

Outsider said:


> Avok, that sounded like [u du] to me!


 
Geez, to me too.


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## morphine

Well, you see, just like there's a different accent in NY than in TX, there are different accents in Brazil. Those accents present in the video are characteristic from the southern region of the country. Even there, though, most words ending in "o" are spoken with an "u" sound, as "e" words sound as ending with "i".

That is, as the "o" in "do" (EN)... "e" as in "me".

Using olivinha's example, in Sao Paulo we usually say (well, I do and I usually hear people saying): "u djia todu" and "ondji fica u banhêru?"... and "mi dah um djinheiru aí".
I guess that the "de" usually sounds like "dji" here... as "te" are "tji" or "tchi" em "Pra te fazer feliz" > "Pra tchi fazê felís".


Okay, I might be starting to complicate things now, putting the "is" in discussion.


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## Alandria

Outsider said:


> I agree about the "ê"s, but I honestly can't hear the "ô"s. They all sound pretty much like "u"s to me...





avok said:


> Ok.. This is , to me, how Brazilians pronounce "o" and "do". It is not "u" and "du".
> 
> Vanda, I think this attachment is Ok because it is me





Outsider said:


> Avok, that sounded like [u du] to me!





avok said:


> Hahaha maybe...those Brazilians scared me! I could not open my mouth for "ohhhhh" and "dohhhh"
> 
> Actually my  "do" is like a bit "du" in the attachment , I admit it. But "o" is like "oh"



Nossa, Out. Então eu não sei pronunciar um "ô", porque todos esses exemplos que cito, além do de Avok, soam "ô"... 

Com esse critério, se eu pronunciar "dor", "amor", "favor", "loira", "moita". Vão te soar "dur", "amur", "favur", "luira" e "muita".


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## avok

Alandria said:


> Nossa, Out. Então eu não sei pronunciar um "ô", porque todos esses exemplos que cito, além do de Avok, soam "ô"...
> 
> Com esse critério, se eu pronunciar "dor", "amor", "favor", "loira", "moita". Vão te soar "dur", "amur", "favur", "luira" e "muita".


 
Sim! the "o" in "o" and "do" sounds like the "o" in "por" and "amor"


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## olivinha

avok said:


> Sim! the "o" in "o" and "do" sounds like the "o" in "por" and "amor"


Only when you read it carefully (or are teaching a lesson, as in the videos you provided above); however, on everday speech the "o" in "o" and "do" sounds like "u".


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## morphine

I don't really know if there's a rule for this sort of thing, but:
"por" (meaning _by_ or _through_, not _put_) = "pur" OR "pôr"
"amor" = "amôr".


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## Denis555

olivinha said:


> Only when you read it carefully (or are teaching a lesson, as in the videos you provided above); however, on everday speech the "o" in "o" and "do" sounds like "u".


 
Yes it's true. It's interesting that people really use this much inappropriate "method" to teach foreigners. The only thing they're doing is confusing students... 
The "o" at the end of word is NEVER pronounced /o , ɔ / unless it's got an accent on it ->ô, ó


This /o/ sound for the letter "o" at the end of word is wrong and for me it's a crime to teach this imaginary /o/ sound. It's simply a mispronunciation of the Portuguese language, a disrespect for all Portuguese native speakers including the person who teaches it like that. 


It's almost like saying or teaching that the English word "thing" should be pronounced with a "t-sound" and not a "θ-sound" but somehow it's mispronounced in everyday speech and foreigners should learn the "right" way...


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## coolbrowne

Vanda said:


> Avok, you have confounded nations' pronunciation, most of us say du.


 
You meant *confused*, not *confounded*. The latter implies malice (to cause confusion on purpose). I am sure Avok's confusion was innocent 

Cheers


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## avok

Maybe Vanda meant I caused confusion on purpose!!


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## Vanda

No, I haven't, Avok. Simply I have misused the English word. When I am in a hurry I don't check the unusual words, so...


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## avok

I know Vanda don't worry


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## avok

Denis555 said:


> Yes it's true. It's interesting that people really use this much inappropriate "method" to teach foreigners. The only thing they're doing is confusing students...
> The "o" *at the end of word* is NEVER pronounced /o , ɔ / unless it's got an accent on it ->ô, ó
> 
> 
> This /o/ sound for the letter "o" at the end of word is wrong and for me it's a crime to teach this imaginary /o/ sound. It's simply a mispronunciation of the Portuguese language, a disrespect for all Portuguese native speakers including the person who teaches it like that.
> 
> 
> It's almost like saying or teaching that the English word "thing" should be pronounced with a "t-sound" and not a "θ-sound" but somehow it's mispronounced in everyday speech and foreigners should learn the "right" way...


 
Yes your right. As I already explained above it is always "u" at the end of the word. But if the word is short "o, do, rio, etc.." (esp."o" and "do") this "o" becomes less like "u" which I never hear in European Portuguese speech. Maybe it is "w" "dw" I dont know.


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