# ان الطفل كريم



## Josh_

*ان الطفل كريم.*

What does this sentence say?
Think about it carefully.


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## elroy

Ok, let me try:

As you probably suspected, my spontaneous reading of it was إنَّ الطفلَ كريمٌ - i.e., "the child is generous."

But since this must be a riddle (and you asked us to "think about it carefully") I got creative and tried to come up with another possible reading by going with different vowels and such.

The best I could come up with was أنَّ الطفلُ كريمٍ - i.e., "the child groaned like an addax (or like Reem [person's name]).

Am I even close?


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## Josh_

I guess there's no fooling you.  My next question is, are the words riim and anna (as a verb) common?


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## elroy

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> I guess there's no fooling you. My next question is, are the words riim and anna (as a verb) common?


 
ريم is very common as a girl's name, and I'd say a good number of Arabs know what it means.  I did, anyway.  However, it's not used often, if at all, with its zoological meaning.  I guess it's too specific to be common colloquially.

Every educated Arab should recognize أنَّ.  It and its derivatives (أنين, etc.) are quite commonly used (in MSA, of course).


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## Josh_

Don't you mean ريمة Reema  is a common girl's name? (2ummaal feen MishkaaH? )  I am familiar with Reema, but I've never heard of ريم reem as personal name -- just a name for an antelope.


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## elroy

Both ريما and ريم are common among Palestinian females. I can't speak for other countries/dialects. 

If I'm not mistaken, a ريم is a _female_ antelope/addax/gazelle, so it makes sense as a female name. Perhaps the ا (or ـة as in your version; I've personally only ever seen it spelled with an ا) was added to make the name sound more feminine.

Either way, my mom's cousin's name is ريما, and a good friend of mine's name is ريم. 

By the way, what does MishkaaH mean?


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## Josh_

elroy said:
			
		

> By the way, what does MishkaaH mean?


It might just be an Egyptian thing. MishkaaH is a masculine (invented?) name used with riima to signify the union of two good-for-nothings. They are used in proverbs:

gawwizu mishkaaH li-riima -- 2aal ma 3ala l-itneen 2iima.
They married MishKaaH to Rima; it was said, "both are useless." In fact, there is a verb, mashkaH, yimashkaH, which means to means to loaf around. Maybe one of the Egyptian foreros can add more information.


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## ayed

Does it overlap :
*وافق شن طبقه*


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## cherine

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> gawwizu mishkaaH li-riima -- 2aal ma 3ala l-itneen 2iima.


Wow Josh ! what a culture  I didn't know this proverb.
I think the name MishkaaH is indeed invented, at least I've never heard of a man with that name. Mishkaa7 and Riima are use -to my knowledge- for a vicious/vilan couple, I didn't know it was about unworthiness. But maybe they're used for both.

As for the name Riima, it's not used in  Egypt; while Reem ريم is very widely used.


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## zooz

good one josh. I admit I've read it a couple of times with no success.

as elroy said, *أنَّ* is very used in standard arabic. if you're interested, in syrian dialect we use that verb ,but of course after deforming the beautiful original version, as *عنَّ*.

*غزال الريم* is the addax or white antelope which live in the arabian deserts, and used widely in arabian poetry by many arabic poets.
*يقول الشاعر*
*ريم على القاع بين البان والعلم........... أحـل سفك دمى فى الأشـهر الحـُرُم*​ 
the three names are widely used in many countries. I recall that in standard arabic one of the two (*ريما ، ريمة*) is correct and the other is not, but don't know which one is. (*نورا، نورة...الخ*).​ 
@ josh: if you like riddles, here's one for kids, in case if you don't know it:​*أمر أمير الأمراء بحفر بئرٍ بالصحراء ليشرب منه الفقراء. فكم راء في ذلك؟ *
 ​


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## cherine

ayed said:
			
		

> Does it overlap :
> *وافق شن طبقه*


I think the two proverbs mean the same thing : what comes along...
Here's an explanation of the proverb given by Ayed.


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## elroy

Well, it looks like we've all learned at least one new thing through this thread! 

Zooz, when you say "three names," which ones are you talking about?  I thought we were only talking about two.

A colloquial Palestinian equivalent of Josh's and Ayed's proverbs is طنجرة ولاقت غطاها ("Tunjara w-laa2at ghaTaaha" - a pot has found its lid).  

Josh, I'd be interested in seeing whether you answer Zooz's riddle correctly.  

After you give it a shot, though (should you choose to do so), I hereby prohibit further off-topic wanderings   Sorry to be the party pooper, but whoever wishes to indulge in such vagaries is by all means welcome to open a new thread.


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## zooz

> Zooz, when you say "three names," which ones are you talking about? I thought we were only talking about two.


 
at least in syria they're considered as different names: *ريم، ريما، ريمة*


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## Josh_

> Josh, I'd be interested in seeing whether you answer Zooz's riddle correctly.


 The sentence reads: The prince of princes ordered the digging of a well in the desert for the poor to drink from.

   On reading the question my first thought was:

   How many letter raays* (**ر*’s* ) *are there?  The answer would be eight (8)?

   But* رأ  *can also means onlooker so the question could also read:

How many onlookers are there? To which it first thought was none since it was just an order. But if the reading of the sentence in terms of onlookers is related to the reading of the sentence in terms of the letter raay, then there must be eight onlookers.

   Let me know if I am close?


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## elroy

Josh Adkins said:
			
		

> Let me know if I am close?


 
I'm afraid not.  You're overanalyzing again.


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## zooz

josh, just count!!  

I forgot to mention if anyone has heard an "addax groaning" so we can use that sentence.


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## Josh_

Ahh, I got it.  (Too bad there's not a smiley for hitting yourself in the forehead.)  There are no raays in *ذلك* .  The first sentence is there just to throw someone off.  English does similar things.

What's my name?  Josh (or whatever name).
How do you spell it? 

How do you spell silk?
What do cows drink?

Edit:  No need to answer these.  I just posted them as examples.


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## zooz

well done josh. I'll post more as soon as I remember any cool one.


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## zj73

Elroy, does Kareem really mean generous? I thought that was  سخي.


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## WadiH

كَرَم can means nobility or honor generally, but it can refer specifically to generosity, especially in its transitive form أكرمه وكرّمه (literally 'honored him' but you can see how this can be described as generosity since this honor is something usually bestowed from a higher ranking person to a lower ranking person, and is often in the form of material goods).  When حاتم الطائي is referred to as أكرم العرب, it is usually his generosity that people have in mind (and what most stories about him focus on).

From _Lisaan al-3arab:_

*كرم: الْكَرِيمُ: مِنْ صِفَاتِ اللَّهِ وَأَسْمَائِهِ، وَهُوَ الْكَثِيرُ الْخَيْرِ الْجَوَادُ الْمُعْطِي الَّذِي لَا يَنْفَدُ عَطَاؤُهُ، وَهُوَ الْكَرِيمُ الْمُطْلَقُ. وَالْكَرِيمُ: الْجَامِعُ لِأَنْوَاعِ الْخَيْرِ وَالشَّرَفِ وَالْفَضَائِلِ.*


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