# て-form where one verb connects to the next vs たまま



## Shenrais

http://www.learn-japanese-adventure.com/japanese-verb-te-form.html Is the source near the bottom.

According to the post "*Verb1 is an action or condition which accompanies the action denoted by Verb2*. "

Examples being for instance 
眼鏡をかけて本を読みます。*I read with my glasses on* Wouldn't 眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます。 work too?

Or 電気を消して寝ます。*I sleep with the lights off* Would 電気を消したまま寝ます。 Work too?

It also explains the difference between this pattern and ながら but not たまま

眼鏡をかけて本を読みます。

眼鏡をかけながら本を読みます。

In example 1, after putting on glasses, (with this state remained) you continue to read book. Whereas in example 2, you are putting on glasses and reading book at the same time.

So it seems that it being a state sort of thing fits in with たまま. So basically is there a difference?

ニュアンスを教えてくれませんか。


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## SoLaTiDoberman

眼鏡をかけて本を読みます。１
眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます。２
眼鏡をかけながら本を読みます。３

１ and 2 means the same thing, they mean "眼鏡をかけた状態で本を読みます。"
I read books with (the state of) wearing glasses.

1 is the most common and natural way to say it.

2 emphasizes "the state that the glasses are worn to my face." Probably 2 is used in the context that when getting older, people with near-sighted eyes usually put off their glasses when they read book, but I don't put off the glasses. I (can) read books without putting off my glasses or with my glasses kept wearing.

3 may mean "I read books as I'm putting on my glasses."
"I read books during the action of putting on my glasses," which doesn't make sense.


電気を消して寝ます。4
電気を消したまま寝ます。 5

The actual meaning is exactly the same.
5 emphasizes the state that the light is being off.

4: I put off the light and I sleep. I put off the light before I sleep.
5: I sleep in the state of the light is off.

ろうそくをつけて寝ます。６
ろうそくをつけたまま寝ます。７

Actually 6 and 7 means the same thing too.
I may concern that the candle light will be off after the whole candle is burnt, right?
The sentence 6 doesn't care whether the candle light will be on during all my sleep or not.
In case of the sentence 7, you might think that the candle will continue to be lighting during all my sleep. However, I don't think so. The sentence 7 too, only mention that the person puts on the candle and he/she sleeps. The both sentences don't mention after what happen to the candle after sleep.
Therefore, I think 6 and 7 means the same thing.

If you want to emphasize that you kept lighting all night, you would say,
私は一晩中ろうそくをつけたまま寝ます。8　
or 私は一晩中ろうそくをつけて寝ます。9

8 and 9 still means exactly the same thing.
9 emphasizes the state of being lighting, but the meaning itself is the same.


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## 810senior

Fundamentally, ながら refers to simultaneous *actions *of both incidence. c.f. テレビを見ながらご飯を食べるのは身体によくないことです。(it's no good for your body eating a meal while watching a TV).
According to your example(I read with my glasses on), for instance, you can do two actions(_putting glasses on_ and _reading a book_) in the one breath, so it's totally meaningless.

Whereas, まま refers to the *state of things* that takes place simultaneously, as in your examples, both 電気を消したまま寝ます and 眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます can be translated more literally to "I sleep in the state that the light's off" and "I read in the state that my glasses are on" respectively.


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## karlalou

Shenrais said:


> 眼鏡をかけて本を読みます。*I read with my glasses on* Wouldn't 眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます。 work too?


Yes, it works.



> 眼鏡をかけて本を読みます。
> 眼鏡をかけながら本を読みます。
> In example 1, after putting on glasses, (with this state remained) you continue to read book. Whereas in example 2, you are putting on glasses and reading book at the same time.


These statements are right. But both 眼鏡をかけて and 眼鏡をかけながら can also be condition. Without context, I tend to take both of them as condition than action.

The nuance of 眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます is that it's usual for you to wear the glasses and when you read is also not exception.



> Or 電気を消して寝ます。*I sleep with the lights off* Would 電気を消したまま寝ます。 Work too?


Yes, it works. But I feel more comfortable with 電気を消して寝ます and I think that is because the lights are usually on before that.


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## frequency

めがねをかけて can suggest 手段. But かけながら doesn't. かけながら・かけたままdo


810senior said:


> Whereas, まま refers to the *state of things* that takes place simultaneously, as in your examples, both 電気を消したまま寝ます and 眼鏡をかけたまま本を読みます can be translated more literally to "I sleep in the state that the light's off" and "I read in the state that my glasses are on" respectively.


 
Yes two actions.

かけて can do 'I wear my glasses to read/I read with my glasses'. But かけながら・かけたまま can't say these.


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## Shenrais

I want to thank everyone for replying and trying to help me figure out this.

Quite a bit of information to digest, but what I am  thinking so far is て form is more natural and used and たまま seems a bit more bookish and emphasizes the connection. Just seems like everyone's consensus is that they are both mostly the same but the first feels more natural.


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## karlalou

You would want to say テレビ[電気 etc.]つけたまま寝てた。
If you say テレビをつけて寝た, people think What for?


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## Shenrais

karlalou said:


> You would want to say テレビ[電気 etc.]つけたまま寝てた。
> If you say テレビをつけて寝た, people think What for?



So you're saying まま has the nuance that I didn't do the action on purpose whereas て is the opposite?


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## karlalou

Shenrais said:


> So you're saying まま has the nuance that I didn't do the action on purpose whereas て is the opposite?


No, I'm saying this まま means it was the previous state and you left it as it was on purpose or not.

Actually, interestingly, if it was on purpose or not is implied by the verb form. Both て寝た and まま寝た implies it was on purpose (〜した action), while て寝ていた and まま寝ていた both implies it was not on purpose (〜ていた state). [edit to add] In addition to it, I see that 〜て寝ていた and 〜まま寝ていた can also mean 'on purpose' when they are used as _progressive action_.


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## frequency

難しいなｗ
Main verbs sometimes control.

本を読む、ＴＶを観る etc. are normal actions with normal verbs but you're trying to do something (reading a book, watching TV) positively.
Furthermore, when using your かけて with them, it 'helplessly' sounds like the second action that assists your first purpose: The action to achieve your purpose/action. And めがねをかけて本を読む semantically implies that your eyesight is not good so you need your glasses to read.

窓を開けて猫を入れる。
This is the same in formation and means that the cat can't come in unless the window opens, and you did one action in order to achieve your purpose.
めがねをかけて本を読む。 isn't especially
I read after wearing my glasses. Or
I read while wearing my glasses.

眼鏡をかけながら本を読みます?
You're doing A while doing B.
This could alternatively be _I'm wearing my glasses when reading_.

_I open the window while letting my cat come in.
I open the window when letting my cat come in._

The two (te and nagara) work and mean differently.

おまけ：

めがねをかけたまま寝た。
This sounds that you were wearing your glasses while sleeping: You forgot taking your glasses off before sleeping. Reason? Purpose? We don't know lol. You're just stating the things happened.
めがねをかけたまま寝てしまった。
しまった works like OMG I did that(T_T)
It sounds like you forgot taking your glasses off and it wasn't what you wanted to do.


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