# se dénouer



## catiocha

Il s'agit d'une femme qui pleure, le jour anniversaire de la mort de son mari, et qui sort d'un musee, en larmes, en se rappelant le visage et les mots de son mari.
 Voici le texte: "Alors qu'elle se precipite vers la sortie, elle entend sa voix (...) et voit le sourire subtil et plein d'humour. Parvenue sur le parvis du musee, elle respire profondement. Quelque chose en elle s'est denoue."
Je me demande comment traduire "s'est denoue." Le verbe signifie ici qu'une tension en elle s'est relachee. Il s'agit de la fin du livre, et donc ce dernier mot est important. Pourriez-vous m'aider? Merci!


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## Moon Palace

I was thinking of 'something inside her has been unraveled' ?


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## Gil

My try:
Within her, something came to an end.


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## Moon Palace

I was hesitating about 'within' her, but it is much better. Now, don't you think the 'came to an end' is ambiguous and may not be as positive as what is meant? I like it for its power though.


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## catiocha

Hi,
I like "came to an end" too, but does it have a positive meaning? 
Le texte veut dire, litteralement, qu'un noeud en elle s'est defait: un noeud d'angoisse et de tension. Juste avant, cette femme vient de recevoir un appel de son fils dont elle craignait qu'il ait oublie la date anniversaire de la mort de son pere. Elle pleure, mais ce n'est pas de douleur. Cet appel, en la soulageant, lui a enfin permis de pleurer. "Quelque chose en elle s'est denoue" a donc une connotation entierement positive. Estce que "something inside her has been unraveled" marcherait? Je ne connais pas bien ce mot "unravel."


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## Moon Palace

unravel does mean the same as disentangle, but in a more poetic way. I am not sure about 'came to an end', this is what I was pointing out.


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## Gil

Moon Palace said:


> unravel does mean the same as disentangle, but in a more poetic way. I am not sure about 'came to an end', this is what I was pointing out.


Avec plus de contexte, on peut y repenser...


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## catay

Moon Palace said:


> I was thinking of 'something inside her has been unraveled' ?


Very nice .  I think of "a knot of tension" that begins to unwind or unravel.
My suggestion is to just use the past tense:
"something inside her unravelled"


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## broglet

Moon Palace said:


> I was hesitating about 'within' her, but it is much better.


I agree, Moon. And I like Gil's word order too.
Combining it with catay's appealing use of the intransitive produces:
*Within her something unravelled.*
I prefer this to 'something inside her unravelled' which makes me think that her intestines may have been falling to pieces!


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## Moon Palace

Thank you Catay and Broglet, but I thought that using 'unravel' as an intransitive verb gave it another meaning, less positive. I had found it could be a synonym for 'collapse' for instance. Which is why I chose the passive voice. Your opinion?


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## catay

broglet said:


> I agree, Moon. And I like Gil's word order too.
> Combining it with catay's appealing use of the intransitive produces:
> *Within her something unravelled.*
> I prefer this to 'something inside her unravelled' which makes me think that her intestines may have been falling to pieces!


ha,ha...Sweet, Broglet.  And I thought I was being rather poetic. However, you have "knitted" the suggestions together nicely.


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## broglet

Moon Palace said:


> Thank you Catay and Broglet, but I thought that using 'unravel' as an intransitive verb gave it another meaning, less positive. I had found it could be a synonym for 'collapse' for instance. Which is why I chose the passive voice. Your opinion?


That alternative meaning remains a possibility whether it is used transitively or intransitively. 'His carefully thought out plan started to unravel' means that it started to go wrong.  For this reason I am not 100% happy about unravel in the current context, although I can't think of anything better.


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## catay

broglet said:


> That alternative meaning remains a possibility whether it is used transitively or intransitively. 'His carefully thought out plan started to unravel' means that it started to go wrong. For this reason I am not 100% happy about unravel in the current context, although I can't think of anything better.


 
As in the song "She's come undone" by the Guess Who:

_It's too late_
_She's gone too far_
_She's lost herself_

_She's come undone_

But an "unravelling" can be a positive thing, the solution to a mystery, an end to or a release from tension.


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## Nicomon

Please dont laugh too hard if this is completely wrong... and blame it on the dictioary... but what about _*untwined  *_or _* came loose *_


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## Teafrog

My feeling is that although "Within her something unravelled" is the best attempt, it could be understood as "she went to pieces", which has the opposite meaning.
The opposite of "she went to pieces" would be something like "she pulled herself together", but that means that there was a conscious effort on her part to do so, whereas "Quelque chose en elle s'est dénoué" implies that 'it happened involuntarily" (with the assistance of some recollection).
I'm not entirely convinced that this is the correct translation, but cannot come up with something more appropriate right now. I’m putting on my thinking cap…
This post is just to say, “very good try, but I don’t think this is the correct answer, even though it’s an excellent suggestion”.


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## catay

"Within her something unwound", which implies a release of tension, a letting go....I look forward to other suggestions....my thinking cap is drooping.


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## Moon Palace

I tend to agree with you, Teafrog, but then in the passive voice, it doesn't produce the same effect, and 'unravel' keeps its positive meaning, doesn't it?


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## broglet

Very well expressed Teafrog - my sentiments entirely. I'm beginning to wonder whether it might be better to move away from the metaphorical and say, "Within her something had been resolved" - but I very much like catay's "Within her something unwound"

Sorry, Nicomon, but something untwining or coming loose sounds as though things are going badly wrong with her internal organs.


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## Suehil

What about, 'inside her, closure came'


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## broglet

Suehil said:


> What about, 'inside her, closure came'


Interesting idea, but I feel that what is implied is the _start _of some kind of process of healing; 'closure' suggests the end of a process.


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## Teafrog

broglet said:


> Interesting idea, but I feel that what is implied is the _start _of some kind of process of healing; 'closure' suggests the end of a process.



I agree, and "closure" in this context is usually (but not always…) employed with mental difficulties, such as a bereavement, etc

The use of "to unravel" conjures up (for me, at any rate) her guts unwinding and spilling out.

“Disentangle” or “untwined “ make me think of combating a plant.

"To come loose" reminds me of a nut or screw, hardly the poetic convolutions this poor lady is going through…

Broglet suggests that it might be better to move away from the metaphorical and say, "Within her something had been resolved", and I would agree with this.

This may come as a shock for some of you (advanced apologies).
I’m not part of the Lets-dump-the-metaphor brigade, but how about, simply, “she felt better for it” or “she felt better as a result”. It’s cheesy, but it works!

“Less is more”, sometimes…


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## Moon Palace

Sorry if I seem to be the stubborn kind , but if I agree with the new remarks, I would like something to be clear: originally, I had suggested 'unravel' in the passive voice, because as then it alludes to an action from the outside in order to remove knots of tension, it could then not be the guts falling to pieces, right? The reason why I chose the passive voice is precisely to avoid the negative connotation. 
Now, simple question: does this uninviting connotation stick even in the passive voice? I thought it wouldn't (or so said my dictionary), but I would appreciate if you natives could confirm or deny. Thanks


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## Teafrog

Mhhh, I see what you mean.
Well, my gut feeling (sorry, I just could not let that golden opportunity go by – just had to do it – the temptation was far too great, really, it was ) is that it still has a somewhat negative and ‘uninviting connotation’, as it is used in relation with her innards.
Perhaps using the passive voice would have worked in another context, who know? As I’m not an academic, I couldn’t make a comment on this subtle point. Perhaps one of these learned people ‘out there’, working in a school, college or university might like to explain?
Hint hint…


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## Moon Palace

Thank you for saying your feeling, Teafrog, even that one . If nobody gives any more explanation, I'll ask in the English Only Forum, because the distinction matters.


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## staticmouse

What about "something inside her was set free"?


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## Teafrog

staticmouse said:


> What about "something inside her was set free"?



Mhhh, I like that.


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## Nicomon

staticmouse said:


> What about "something inside her was set free"?


 
This one gets my vote.  I was just about to suggest "within her, something was/has been freed"  but come to think of it, you can't really conjugate free.  

And I like Catay's "unwound" (which is really what I should have suggested instead of untwined )


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## catiocha

I am fascinated by all your suggestions, and I thank you. Some of your comments (about intestines) gave me a good laugh. Now, I still have to choose:
"Within her something has been unravelled."
"Within her something has unravelled." (Rather than just "unravelled" because the rest of the paragraph is in the present tense).
Within her something unwound."
For those of you who understood the context of my sentence, which is the best of the three?
Thank you


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## Moon Palace

As I have no native certainty about the passive voice of unravelled, I'd choose the last one. ANd reject the second absolutely.


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## Nicomon

Since you don't seem to like "something inside her was set free" (my personal preference)... then I'd vote for "unwound".


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## broglet

catiocha said:


> I am fascinated by all your suggestions, and I thank you. Some of your comments (about intestines) gave me a good laugh. Now, I still have to choose:
> "Within her something has been unravelled."
> "Within her something has unravelled." (Rather than just "unravelled" because the rest of the paragraph is in the present tense).
> Within her something unwound."
> For those of you who understood the context of my sentence, which is the best of the three?
> Thank you


You have a choice of three forms of wording here, each one in a different tense! Fortunately, for me, the one that seems to be in the correct tense is also the best form of wording.

So my vote gets added to Moon Palace's and Nicomon's, and goes to catay's 'Within her something unwound'.


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## catay

one more suggestion and thanks all for your positive feedback !
"Within her something eased"...a release from pain, emotional or physical
(To lessen discomfort, pressure, stress)
Broglet, maybe you can suggest an alternate phrasing ?


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## Gil

J'ai l'impression que les divers intervenants ont pensé à "noeud" et non à "dénouement" quand ils ont lu "dénoué".
Pourtant, il y a un troisième sens à "dénouer".



> 3¨ (1549)  Démêler, éclaircir (une difficulté, une intrigue). Þ démêler, éclaircir, résoudre. « le drame qui dénoua cette double existence » (Balzac). « il était temps que la mort vint dénouer une situation tendue à l'excès » (Renan). Pronom. « La passion, comme le drame, vit de combat et se dénoue par la mort » (Suarès).


Mon impression, c'est qu'une des étapes (peut-être la dernière) du deuil de son mari vient de prendre fin.
J'aimerais trouver mieux que ces suggestions.  Les miennes sont des synonymes de "resolve":
clear up, fix, settle, untangle
J'aime bien "untangle" qui me semble moins viscéral que d'autres suggestions.


> un·tan·gle
> –verb (used with object), -gled, -gling. 1.    to bring out of a tangled state; disentangle; unsnarl.
> 2.    to straighten out or clear up (anything confused or perplexing).
> [Origin: 1540–50; un-2 + tangle] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)


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## The MightyQ

Do you have to keep the "something"? Could it not   be something else, figurative?
e.g. 

A knot inside her was beginning to loosen

or something like that


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## Nicomon

I still like the "freeing" idea... as in these random examples



> She took a deep breath and felt a freeing up through her head and chest.
> 
> He continued in his pained mind state for a while, but felt a freeing sensation one day after turning on the radio and hearing Sarah McLachlan's "Angel" for the first time.


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## catay

Mon impression, c'est qu'une des étapes (peut-être la dernière) du deuil de son mari vient de prendre fin.
Oui, Gil, bien sûr.

"Ease" suggests both an emotional and a physical release....the easing of emotional pain and also the easing off of a knot, a cord, etc. a slackening of pressure....


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## Gil

Nicomon said:


> I still like the "freeing" idea... as in these random examples


Je n'ai rien contre, comme:
Deep inside, a feeling of freedom took hold of her.


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## Nicomon

Gil said:


> Je n'ai rien contre, comme:
> Deep inside, a feeling of freedom took hold of her.


 
J'aime!  Beaucoup!


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## Gil

catay said:


> Mon impression, c'est qu'une des étapes (peut-être la dernière) du deuil de son mari vient de prendre fin.
> Oui, Gil, bien sûr.
> 
> "Ease" suggests both an emotional and a physical release....the easing of emotional pain and also the easing off of a knot, a cord, etc. a slackening of pressure....


Selon cette définition:


> v.   intr.
> To lessen, as in discomfort, pressure, or stress: pain that never eased.


"Ease" est plus un apaisement, un soulagement, qu'un dénouement.
ama, c'est un peu moins terminal.


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## Moon Palace

Gil said:


> Je n'ai rien contre, comme:
> Deep inside, a feeling of freedom took hold of her.



If we're on to something positive, why not 'deep inside, a feeling of freedom overwhelmed her'
(the idea of freedom taking hold of sounds like an oxymoron to me, but I may be biased?)


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## Nicomon

_Une sensation de liberté l'envahit_. What would be the best English word for _l'envahit_? 
I think this is what we're looking for. "Overwhelmed" sounds good to me. Is there a better one?


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## Gil

Moon Palace said:


> If we're on to something positive, why not 'deep inside, a feeling of freedom overwhelmed her'
> (the idea of freedom taking hold of sounds like an oxymoron to me, but I may be biased?)


J'aime bien "overwhelmed", c'est nettement mieux.


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## mungolina

But are we actually translating what it said anymore? I know in translation one has to interpret and understand - but I am not personally convinced that a feeling of freedom overwhelming her is actually what the author meant... I prefer the ones along the lines of 'a knot of tension eased within her'. I think they are closer to the actual meaning.


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## Nicomon

mungolina said:


> I prefer the ones along the lines of 'a knot of tension eased within her'. I think they are closer to the actual meaning.


 
They seem closer, if you read _dénoué_ as opposite to _noué_ (noeud... as Gil explained in post #33). Still, when this knot of tension eases / unwinds / untangles, you feel a freedom inside. This is the "_dénouement_" part of the expression. It is more terminal.


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## broglet

catay said:


> one more suggestion and thanks all for your positive feedback !
> "Within her something eased"...a release from pain, emotional or physical
> (To lessen discomfort, pressure, stress)
> Broglet, maybe you can suggest an alternate phrasing ?


Hi catay - that seems fine too - my last posting on this thread!


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## catiocha

Merci a tous. Je pense que je vais choisir soit "Within her something eased", soit "Within her something unwound."


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## Budd

"Unravel" is quite good as a translation, but how about "to come undone"?

But after looking again at the end of the original quotation, I have doubts about both: Quelque chose en elle s'est denoue."
Je me demande comment traduire "s'est denoue." *Le verbe signifie ici  qu'une tension en elle s'est relachee*. Il s'agit de la fin du livre, et  donc ce dernier mot est important. Pourriez-vous m'aider? Merci!

If, however, s'est denoué really does mean the tension is gone, then neither is an adequate translation... far from it. I suggest "Something in her (just) let go" which I think works better in English than the more obvious "relaxed" and makes more sense in this context than unraveled or came undone or anything else suggested here.


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## fixorrepairdaily

catiocha said:


> Hi,
> I like "came to an end" too, but does it have a positive meaning?
> Le texte veut dire, litteralement, qu'un noeud en elle s'est defait: un noeud d'angoisse et de tension. Juste avant, cette femme vient de recevoir un appel de son fils dont elle craignait qu'il ait oublie la date anniversaire de la mort de son pere. Elle pleure, mais ce n'est pas de douleur. Cet appel, en la soulageant, lui a enfin permis de pleurer. "Quelque chose en elle s'est denoue" a donc une connotation entierement positive. Estce que "something inside her has been unraveled" marcherait? Je ne connais pas bien ce mot "unravel."


If what


Budd said:


> "Unravel" is quite good as a translation, but how about "to come undone"?
> 
> But after looking again at the end of the original quotation, I have doubts about both: Quelque chose en elle s'est denoue."
> Je me demande comment traduire "s'est denoue." *Le verbe signifie ici  qu'une tension en elle s'est relachee*. Il s'agit de la fin du livre, et  donc ce dernier mot est important. Pourriez-vous m'aider? Merci!
> 
> If, however, s'est denoué really does mean the tension is gone, then neither is an adequate translation... far from it. I suggest "Something in her (just) let go" which I think works better in English than the more obvious "relaxed" and makes more sense in this context than unraveled or came undone or anything else suggested here.


Yes! As if one inherits a million bucks a week before you're about to get foreclosed. Looking to improve my skills listening to spoken French. My son stuck with high school French  for four years and is terrific in conversation. He recently met Francophones from Montreal and Burkina Faso, and spoke with each for 30 to 40 minutes. What a brave lad!  Fix


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