# الأردنّ



## lukebeadgcf

Hi, I ran into an book on the Jordanian dialect, and on the cover it said "...في الأردنّ", and I'm pretty sure there was no ياء which the شدة could be referring to (I certainly could be mistaken), and I don't see any reason for a شدة to be there. I'm curious if anyone knows why I would see it written like this. Thanks!


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## elroy

Why?  Just because. 

Seriously, your question doesn't have an answer.  It's like asking why the word "park" has a "k" at the end.  It just does. 

So الأردنّ is spelled with a شدة because the "n" is actually doubled, which is not really apparent unless you add a vowel after the word.  So, for example, if you were to add a ضمة it woudl be "al2urdunnu" and not "al2urdunu."


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## Abu Rashid

It probably has something to do with the language the word came into Arabic from (English I think).


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## Mahaodeh

Why English? It's called Jordan after the river, that would most probably be from Hebrew, Syriac or even older, maybe Cananite.


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## clevermizo

elroy said:


> Why?  Just because.
> 
> Seriously, your question doesn't have an answer.  It's like asking why the word "park" has a "k" at the end.  It just does.
> 
> So الأردنّ is spelled with a شدة because the "n" is actually doubled, which is not really apparent unless you add a vowel after the word.  So, for example, if you were to add a ضمة it woudl be "al2urdunnu" and not "al2urdunu."



I actually had no idea الأردن had shadda on the nuun. Is the nisba adjective actually أردنّيّ  (urdunniy)?


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## lukebeadgcf

clevermizo said:


> I actually had no idea الأردن had shadda on the nuun. Is the nisba adjective actually أردنّيّ  (urdunniy)?



Yep. According to Wehr. I had no idea either. I thought it was a mistake when I saw it.


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## Josh_

I discovered that it has a shadda on it just a little over two years ago (here). I also thought it was an error, but was soon disabused of that.

I know it is now most commonly pronounced "al-2*u*rdun" with the stress on the first syllable (not counting the definite article), but with the shadda on it it would really be pronounced al-2urd*u*nn, with the stress on the last syllable, as this is the case with Arabic words thats end in a two consonant cluster.


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## clevermizo

Josh_ said:


> I discovered that it has a shadda on it just a little over two years ago (here). I also thought it was an error, but was soon disabused of that.
> 
> I know it is now most commonly pronounced "al-2*u*rdun" with the stress on the first syllable (not counting the definite article), but with the shadda on it it would really be pronounced al-2urd*u*nn, with the stress on the last syllable, as this is the case with Arabic words thats end in a two consonant cluster.



Hah! Apparently I forgot about that thread and learned nothing from it.


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## elroy

clevermizo said:


> Is the nisba adjective actually أردنّيّ  (urdunniy)?





lukebeadgcf said:


> Yep. According to Wehr. I had no idea either. I thought it was a mistake when I saw it.


  Are you sure?   I've never, ever heard it pronounced "urdunniy."


Josh_ said:


> I know it is now most commonly pronounced "al-2*u*rdun" with the stress on the first syllable (not counting the definite article), but with the shadda on it it would really be pronounced al-2urd*u*nn, with the stress on the last syllable, as this is the case with Arabic words thats end in a two consonant cluster.


 I say "il2*ur*don" in colloquial Arabic but always "al-2ur*dun*" in MSA.


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## clevermizo

elroy said:


> Are you sure?   I've never, ever heard it pronounced "urdunniy."



So the correct nisba adjective removes the shadda? الأردنّ but أردني and not أردنّي?


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## Abu Rashid

> Why English? It's called Jordan after the river, that would most  probably be from Hebrew, Syriac or even older, maybe Cananite.



Originally it may well be from one of those languages, but the country was named by Britain during the Sykes-Picot agreement. Whether or not they had a pre-existing pronunciation I'm not sure, I guess they may have since Arabs have been in the area since Nabataean times.


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## elroy

clevermizo said:


> So the correct nisba adjective removes the shadda? الأردنّ but أردني and not أردنّي?


 As far as I know, yes.


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## lukebeadgcf

elroy said:


> As far as I know, yes.



What reason is there to remove the شدة in the نسبة, especially since it is indicated in the Wehr Arabic-English dictionary as أردنّيّ? Also in the نسبة, the stress would not change (as far as which syllable takes the most of it) whether or not the شدة was there. So why?


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## clevermizo

lukebeadgcf said:


> What reason is there to remove the شدة in the نسبة, especially since it is indicated in the Wehr Arabic-English dictionary as أردنّيّ? Also in the نسبة, the stress would not change (as far as which syllable takes the most of it) whether or not the شدة was there. So why?



Irregularity, I suppose.


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## Mahaodeh

Abu Rashid said:


> Originally it may well be from one of those languages, but the country was named by Britain during the Sykes-Picot agreement. Whether or not they had a pre-existing pronunciation I'm not sure, I guess they may have since Arabs have been in the area since Nabataean times.


 
Yes they did use it. The word exists in the Lisaan, and according to the Lisaan it refers to "a river in Palestine" and a "region in Palestine", but accroding to the description it seems to me that he meant what we call today غور الأردن.


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## Finland

Hello!



elroy said:


> As far as I know, yes.


 
This is very surprising! From the very beginning of my studies of Arabic (about ten years ago) I have a feeling I have only heard urdunni with the n mushaddad! But I don't know if it is because I was always taught  the name of the country has shadda on the final n. I have a feeling I only hear urdunni for example on Al Jazeera. How interesting!

S


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## elroy

I don't know what the rules are, guys.  All I can tell you is what I've always heard - and that's الأردنّ and أردنيّ.  If I find out anything useful I'll let you know.


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## Finland

Hello Elroy,



elroy said:


> I don't know what the rules are, guys. All I can tell you is what I've always heard - and that's الأردنّ and أردنيّ. If I find out anything useful I'll let you know.


 
I'm sorry, I misunderstood your previous posts. I thought you meant earlier that you had only heard the nisba *without* shadda. I was surprised a native speaker thought the name had no shadda. But now it's clearer, thanks!

S


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## elroy

Finland said:


> I thought you meant earlier that you had only heard the nisba *without* shadda.


 Well, I've only ever heard it with a شدة on the ي but no شدة on the ن. 

In other words, I've only ever heard "urduniy" and never "urdunniy."


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## cherine

I never heard the nisba with a shadda on the nuun, neither in colloquial nor in fuS7a.
As for the pronounciation with a shadda الأردنّ I only heard it when it's with a sukuun الأردنّْ but never الأردنُّ، الأردنِّ، الأردنَّ .


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## elroy

cherine said:


> [...]
> As for the pronounciation with a shadda الأردنّ I only heard it when it's with a sukuun الأردنّْ but never الأردنُّ، الأردنِّ، الأردنَّ .


 Are you saying that you've heard it with a vowel at the end but no شدة, with the stress on the second syllable (_al-*2ur*dunu_)?  Because that sounds extremely strange to me.


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## cherine

elroy said:


> Are you saying that you've heard it with a vowel at the end but no شدة, with the stress on the second syllable (_al-*2ur*dunu_)? Because that sounds extremely strange to me.


Sorry about that  But yes, this is how it's always -or almost always- pronounced in Egypt (MSA and EA):
الأردنُ الشقيق al-*ur*dunu'sh-shaqiiq, and not al-urdu*nnu*'sh-shaqiiq.
We only stress the last syllable when we pause (use sukuun): al-urd*unn*, and this only in MSA. In Egyptian Arabic, it's alway el-*or*don.


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## elroy

That's interesting.   "Al-2ur*dunn*u-sh-shaqiiq" definitely sounds much better to me, and that's what I'm used to hearing.


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## 𒍝𒊑𒈾 𒂵𒉿𒀉

Nobody ever says أنا أُرْدُنِّيٌّ. Its always أنا أُرْدُنِيٌّ


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## yesn

In general, when you stop at the end of the sound (n) it has no شدة and no one uses it with shadda unless it is connected with another sound that (n) needs to be doubled in usage. So practicing speaking and listening will automatically give you the answer.


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