# Using foreign words and phrases



## Bahane

Hepsini kabul ediyorum ama show business kesinlikle Türkçe'ye girmiş yabancı bir kelime değil. Sadece kendini bilmez Türkçe konuşmaktan aciz, Türkçe yerine aralara janjanlı laflar koyarak entellektüel kimliğini öne çıkarmaya çalışan bunu yaparken de Türkçe'yi katleden kitleler bunlar. Şiddetle kınıyorum...

*Mod note: *The discussion has been split from this thread.


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## badgrammar

Bahane said:


> Hepsini kabul ediyorum ama show business kesinlikle Türkçe'ye girmiş yabancı bir kelime değil. Sadece kendini bilmez Türkçe konuşmaktan aciz, Türkçe yerine aralara janjanlı laflar koyarak entellektüel kimliğini öne çıkarmaya çalışan bunu yaparken de Türkçe'yi katleden kitleler bunlar. Şiddetle kınıyorum...



Merhaba Bahane,

Üzgünüm, I wish I could respond...  ama bu posta anla*ma*dim, çok az Türkçe biliyorum. "Janjanli" ne demek? Are you saying that show business is not a foreign word in Turkish?  You see, I really am lost, nothing is easier thatn misunderstanding Turkish...  ve "laflar" ne demek?  Is that an example of an a foreign word, "laugh", now understood by most Turks?


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## Honour

badgrammar said:


> Merhaba Bahane,
> 
> Üzgünüm, I wish I could respond... ama bu posta anla*ma*dim, çok az Türkçe biliyorum. "Janjanli" ne demek? Are you saying that show business is not a foreign word in Turkish? You see, I really am lost, nothing is easier thatn misunderstanding Turkish... ve "laflar" ne demek? Is that an example of an a foreign word, "laugh", now understood by most Turks?


Hi Badgrammar.
He says, he accepts all but show business. He insists that show business is not a Turkish expression and it is only used by the ones who tries to get attention speaking English. Janjan is derived from French "changeant" (şanjan should have been the correct spelling but not) . Janjan means something like fancy in English. By the way "laf" means "söz". That's; word, saying, expression etc. So laugh is not laf (pronounciation is  same though)


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## Bahane

badgrammar said:


> Merhaba Bahane,
> 
> Üzgünüm, I wish I could respond... ama bu posta anla*ma*dim, çok az Türkçe biliyorum. "Janjanli" ne demek? Are you saying that show business is not a foreign word in Turkish? You see, I really am lost, nothing is easier thatn misunderstanding Turkish... ve "laflar" ne demek? Is that an example of an a foreign word, "laugh", now understood by most Turks?


 
Hi badgrammer,

My exclamation was to Turks who use English words or even French, Spanish... while they're speaking Turkish although the words have the Turkish meanings. So as you understood show business is not a foreign word in Turkish. The speaker could say "gösteri dünyası" instead of "show business" or there can be lots of various translations for it. Yes you're right in Turkish TV's you can hear lots of word like that even in TRT which is the natianol TV of Türkiye. It's just a pity for us. Keeping languages is the most important thing in order to keep the cultures. I just wanted to emphasize that.


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## badgrammar

Thanks for the explanation, Bahane!  Now I see what you mean, that there are perfectly good Turkish words to use, with the same meaning, instead of borrowing words from other languages.  The same thing exists in French, I guess people just think those words sound more "sophisticated"...


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## Binapesi

Bahane said:


> Hi badgrammer,
> 
> My exclamation was to Turks who use English words or even French, Spanish... while they're speaking Turkish although the words have the Turkish meanings. So as you understood show business is not a foreign word in Turkish. The speaker could say "gösteri dünyası" instead of "show business" or there can be lots of various translations for it. Yes you're right in Turkish TV's you can hear lots of word like that even in TRT which is the natianol TV of Türkiye. It's just a pity for us. Keeping languages is the most important thing in order to keep the cultures. I just wanted to emphasize that.



I entirely agree with you.
I've even heard a speaker say "bu haftasonu tüm *beach*'lerde..."
This is just disgusting.
Some speak Turkish just in the grammar but the words are all foreign.
And some use the words not knowing what they mean, just to look "cool" you know, embrassing.
Just like what happens in the Turkiye Finans's advert.


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## avok

Keyt said:


> I entirely agree with you.
> I've even heard a speaker say "bu haftasonu tüm *beach*'lerde..."
> This is just disgusting.
> Some speak Turkish just in the grammar but the words are all foreign.
> And some use the words not knowing what they mean, just to look "cool" you know, embrassing.
> Just like what happens in the Turkiye Finans's advert.


 
*Y*ou know what, those people even make a distinction between a "beach" and a "plaj". A "beach" for them is more like a "luxury plaj" *,* so they don*'*t use the word "beach" to mean a "plaj" but rather a luxury plaj where you have to pay for the entrance*!* But a plaj is for ....everyone... for ordinary people... *Y*ou don*'*t have to pay for it. *I*ronically, the word "plaj" that we use is actually a *F*rench word (plage) but in comporaison with "beach" it sounds more Turkish*!* *O*hhh and "sahil" sounds even more *T*urkish but it is just *A*rabic   I just don*'*t understand what's wrong with Turkish people, in the past, we borrowed thousands of words from *P*ersian, *A*rabic and then *F*rench and now *E*nglish... *I*s it that hard to re-find or to create a *T*urkish word for "beach"? *A*nd the funny thing is that we took both "plaj" and "beach" which both mean the same thing in their original languages... *B*ut we even change their original meanings thus, a *T*urkish "beach" is different than a *T*urkish "plaj": funny and weird at the same time*.*


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## badgrammar

What is kind of a pity is that, if you take the example of "beach" "plaj" and "sahil" with the definitions you gave the above, then it's like saying:
American-style beach = Excellent
European style beach = Normal
Turkish style beach = Less desirable

So it is (maybe unintentional) derogatory.  Hidden meanings and insinuations may lurk behind some of these borrowed words, and using them may re-inforce the idea...  But (there's always a but!), languages do inevitably evolve and incorporate words from other languages.  This is probably truer now than ever before with internet and cable tv!

I do remember one of my teachers who explained that languages that continue to evolve are vigorous and very much alive.  When they stop evolving, it's bad news, and probably a sign of their demise (usually because the language is being abandoned altogether and another one used in its place).  

Just playing the Devil's Advocate!


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## Bahane

TDK
*beach* sözü bulunamadı.

*I* think best way is to follow TDK. I'll g*i*ve some examples how the danger is big in Türkiye. badgrammer, don't try to understand, it's impossible for you even for me*.*

*A* TV show from cnnturk which advertises a shopping center in Turkish:

"bu mağazayı hazırlarken daha iyi bir display elde etmek için genelde blue tonlarını tercih ettik... bu sayede customer'larımızın daha hoş bir ortamda alış-veriş yapmalarına olanak sağladık..."

Another one Tansu Çiller (firt woman prime minister of Türkiye):

"yeni emplementasyonlara başladık" (trying to tell implementation) 

Another example Recep Tayyip Erdoğan (Prime Minister of Türkiye) :

"next year inşallah"

And other common usages from Turkish people:

full dolu
print ettin mi?
relax olmak
delete etmek
check ettin mi?
load etmek
o anda ondan oyle bir hareket ekspekte etmiyordum.(!)
bu kadarı enough bana.(!)
backup'ınız olmadan gelmeyin derse (!)

**D*isgusting! these are what *I*'ve remembered now. Everybody can easily make additions to these examples!

I think reasons of these are desire to imitate the west, side effects of imperialism, or personally "*H*ow can *I* be more intellectual", or to attract attention of somebody...

*I* want to conclude with Aziz Nesin (one of the most important author of Türkiye) and Falih Rıfkı Atay (journalist and author)

Aziz Nesin :

*"Eğer anadolunun bir köyünde hayatında tek bir kelime ingilizce bilmeyen, öğrenmemis bir çocuk seven up demek yerine 'sevın ap' diyorsa burda bir sorun vardır."* 

Falih Rıfkı Atay:

*"Taklit ve özenti devri en çok bizde sürmüştür."*


**I think It's essential to make people conscious of these. Wake up, wake up! Don't let to die your cultures!*


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## avok

badgrammar said:


> What is kind of a pity is that, if you take the example of "beach" "plaj" and "sahil" with the definitions you gave the above, then it's like saying:
> American-style beach = Excellent
> European style beach = Normal
> Turkish style beach = Less desirable
> 
> So it is (maybe unintentional) derogatory. Hidden meanings and insinuations may lurk behind some of these borrowed words, and using them may re-inforce the idea... But (there's always a but!), languages do inevitably evolve and incorporate words from other languages. This is probably truer now than ever before with internet and cable tv!
> 
> I do remember one of my teachers who explained that languages that continue to evolve are vigorous and very much alive. When they stop evolving, it's bad news, and probably a sign of their demise (usually because the language is being abandoned altogether and another one used in its place).
> 
> Just playing the Devil's Advocate!


 
I think you are right...English, itself, borrowed thousands of words from French but at least, being Indo-European, they are related. Maybe I would not mind that much, if there were Mongolian, Azeri, or even Greek words in Turkish but "beach" just sounds so....artificial. Who knows? I may get used to it too, in fifty years of time 

And hidden meanings of the borrowed words...I wonder what Freud would think of that ? Since USA is the strongest, it seems to me that "beach" is better than "plage" 




> Originally Posted by *Bahane*
> 
> And other common usages from Turkish people:
> 
> full dolu
> print ettin mi?
> relax olmak
> delete etmek
> check ettin mi?
> load etmek


 
I also "download" and "print"  just like every one else,


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## Binapesi

I remember TDK started a campaign (dunno if the right word) for not using foreign words in everyday life if they mean something in Turkish. When you join the campaign, they regularly (once in a day) send you an e-mail includes a Turkish word and its Turkish explanation and a foreign word (that we use in life although Turkish contains a word in the same meaning) with its Turkish meaning and an explanation.
I still get these e-mails. But I don't know if you can still join the campaign. If I'm not mistaken, you are to send an e-mail to bilgi@tdk.gov.tr telling you want to join in. Then they'll start to send.


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