# Cymraeg (Welsh): un ar bymtheg



## Pearl

Could anyone show me light for that sentence? "un ar bymtheg" 

How is number 17 spelled in gaelic?

I know this goes further the language used in this forum but I don't know where to search.


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## Chaucer

I notice there are many gaelics "Scot and Irish". I did only a quick look. If you need something else, look under the first link:
seventeen people = *seacht nduine dhéag;*
seventeen bottles = *seacht mbuidéal déag;*

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&q=%22Gaelic++dictionary%22&btnG=Search
http://www.englishirishdictionary.com/
http://www.irishgaelictranslator.com/


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## L'irlandais

Hello Pearl,
Long time without an answer.  It's Welsh for the number *16* :  _un ar bymtheg_ - literally _one on five-ten_
*17* would be something like _dwy ar bymtheg _, though perhaps a native speaker might confirm that.


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## Gerontius

17 in Welsh is _dau/dwy ar bymtheg_ in the traditional form, but in modern teaching a decimal system is usually used, and in this 17 is _un deg saith_.

I cannot help you with Gaelic.


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## L'irlandais

Hello Gerontius,
Welcome to the forums.
As Chaucer already pointed out, there are " many Gaelics".  I suspect that Pearl has mixed up the two branches of the "Insular Celtic" language family.
The original question was about the Welsh _dwy ar bymtheg_ (17).
In Irish ithe number would be *seacht déag*, however I don't believe it's what Pearl was looking for.


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## franc 91

I remember explaining this way of counting in Welsh - (I realise it has been simplified since) - to some French people, only to be told quite emphatically that I was counting according to Roman numerals ie II + XV. (In Breton they still have two-twenty, three-twenty and quatre-vingts).


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## Gerontius

Likewise in the traditional Welsh system, 20 is ugain, 40 is deugain (= dau ugain, two twenties) 60 is trigain (tri ugain) and 80 is pedwar ugain.  So 30 is deg ar hugain, (ten on twenty) 50 is deg a deugain, 70 is deg a thrigain (some tricky mutations there!)

The modern trend is to use the decimal forms dau ddeg, tri deg, pedwar deg, pum deg, chwe deg, etc.

I don't know about the Roman idea though.  I can see that XVII is two on fifteen / dau (dwy) ar bymtheg, but the Romans counted in tens, not twenties.  Latin viginti (20) and Welsh ugain are probably related, but triginta is 30, not trigain, 60.


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