# تَعالَ - dual



## penrice

I know that "ta'aala" means "Come!". Actually, it is pronounced "ta'aal" تَعالْ if you stop at the end of the sentence, but never mind that. Can somebody tell me how I would say this word if I were addressing two people? I thought it was تَعالَيا but recently came across تَعالا when watching an American movie with Arabic subtitles.


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## cherine

It is تعالَيَا. I strongly recommend you don't depend too much on subtitles, especially the newer ones, to learn correct Arabic.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> It is تعالَيَا.


 It is?  Where does the ي come from?


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## cherine

I'm not sure how to explain it, but Hans Wehr gives the root as booth علو and علي . So the dual imperative keeps one form/vowel: the yaa2, and I don't know why, maybe it's a phonetic thing but this is the form I've always heard and read, never تعالَوَا.
On the other hand, the plural is always تعالوا and not تعاليوا or anything like that.

I think the yaa2 better fits the pronounciation of the dual form, while the waaw is better/more phonetically convenient for the plural.

P.S. The feminine plural imperative is تعالَيْن. So, again the yaa2 not the waaw.


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## penrice

elroy said:


> It is?  Where does the ي come from?



Well, what are the dual forms of أُدْعُ ("Call!"), إرْمِ ("Throw!"), and إرْضَ ("Be satisfied!")?


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## Matat

elroy said:


> It is? Where does the ي come from?


It's just like any other فعل ناقص.
ابقَ
ابقَيْ
ابقَيَا
ْابقَوْا
ابقَيْنَ
Similarly:
تعالَ
تعالَيْ
تعالَيَا
تعالَوْاْ
تعالَيْنَ



cherine said:


> On the other hand, the plural is always تعالوا and not تعاليوا or anything like that.
> 
> I think the yaa2 better fits the pronounciation of the dual form, while the waaw is better/more phonetically convenient for the plural.



الياء موجودة في أصل الفعل ـ أي تعالَيوا ـ كما في المثنى لكنها تحذف لأن لام الفعل الناقص تحذف إذا اتصلت بواو الجماعة. الواو في (تعالوا) فاعل وليست من جذر الفعل.


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## elroy

تعاليا sounds totally bizarre to me because it sounds like "get haughty" and not "come."  تعالا sounds right to me, even if it's not technically correct.


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## cherine

Matat said:


> الياء موجودة في أصل فعل الجمع ـ أي تعالَيوا ـ كما في المثنى لكنها تحذف لأن لام الفعل الناقص تحذف إذا اتصلت بواو الجمع. الواو في (تعالوا) فاعل وليست من جذر الفعل.


Thanks! I had forgotten about this.


elroy said:


> تعاليا sounds totally bizarre to me because it sounds like "get haughty" and not "come."  تعالا sounds right to me, even if it's not technically correct.


We can't count too much on what sounds good to us, or we'd be mislead often. 
Also, I think you're right that تعاليا (also) has the meaning of "rise above", "act haughty". There's nothing wrong with that. As always, context would tell which is the intended meaning.


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## elroy

As we know, languages change and evolve - and MSA is no exception.

My theory is that تعالا has evolved as a new form because تعاليا does not sound like it means "come" _*at all*_.


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## cherine

Have you seen تعالا used somewhere?


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## elroy

I don't think I've seen either, probably because dual forms are generally rare.  But before this thread I would have _*definitely*_ said تعالا with no hesitation, and nothing else would have even crossed my mind.  Also, I have to assume there's a reason تعالا was used in the subtitles penrice saw.  I don't think this was just a random "mistake."


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## Startinov

Both are correct..

(قام معي رسول الله ليلةً مِن اللَّيالي يُبلِّغُني بيتي فلقيه رَجُلان من الأنصار فلمَّا رأَياه استحيا فرجَعا فقال: (* تعالَيَا *فإنَّها أمكم صفيَّةُ بنتُ حُييٍّ

تعالا is also correct, but not enough to say that تعاليا isn't..

تَعَالَيَا - معاني وشروح وتحليلات لسان.نت- Lisaan.net :


> تَعالَيا أيها الصديقان إلى هنا
> [فصيحة ]
> 
> ذكر بعض اللغويين أن العبارة المذكورة خطأ، وأن صوابها: «تعالا إلى هنا» وهو رأي غريب لا سند له، ويكفي لبيان فساده أن ننقل ما ذكره صاحب المصباح المنير ونصه: «تعال .. استعمل بمعنى هلمّ .. ويتصل به الضمائر باقيًا على فتحه فيقال: تعالَوْا، تعالَيَا، تعالَيْن».


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## elroy

But your source only demonstrates that تعاليا is used.   It doesn't tell us anything about تعالا.


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## Startinov

I don't give a source demonstrates that,  because (تعالا) is more used, there is no reason to demonstrate that.. I my self use only (تعالا)




> تخطئة زهدي جار الله «تعاليا إلى هنا»، ونصه على أن الصواب: «تعالا إلى هنا»، (الكتابة الصحيحة ص 256)، لم يقل به أحد سواه، وتخطئته جمع مكفوف على مكفوفين ذاكرًا أن الصواب مكافيف (السابق 313) وهو ما لم يقل به أحد، ولا يصح القول به.


وجهة نظر دكتور أحمد مختار عمر في النقد اللغوي - ملتقى أهل الحديث


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## elroy

Well, clearly that's not everyone's experience!  See Cherine's posts.


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## Matat

It's true that تعاليا has the meaning of "get haughty", but this would apply to all the forms, not just the dual. تعال تعالي تعالوا تعالين all mean "get haughty" as well. Additionally, تعاليا تعالوا تعالين are used in the past tense as well ("They got haughty.").


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## elroy

That is true, but تعالَ and تعالوا sound okay when used to mean "come," whereas تعاليا and تعالين do not, because of the ي.

This is something that's hard to explain because it's just native-speaker intuition, but تعاليا _very clearly_ sounds like "get haughty"; تعاليا إلى المنزل sounds totally, utterly absurd to me.


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## cherine

elroy said:


> This is something that's hard to explain because it's just native-speaker intuition, but تعاليا _very clearly_ sounds like "get haughty"; تعاليا إلى المنزل sounds totally, utterly absurd to me.


I suggest you explain your reaction with exposure, not native-speaker intuition. I'm a native too, remember? and I don't share your opinion.


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## elroy

No, it's not exposure, since as I said I haven't been exposed to either form.  

The reactions I shared are based on my native-speaker intuition.  But this doesn't mean that every other native has to have the same intuitions, of course.


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