# mettre de l'eau dans son vin



## Kmyyy

Hi everybody !
I'm looking for an equivalence for "mettre de l'eau dans son vin" in english...
For example, if two persons hate them, and they have to collaborate, in France we say " vous devez mettre de l'eau dans votre vin", that means they must do efforts in both sides. (Is it clear ? 

Is there any expression that can have the same meaning ? 
To put milk in the tea for example  (I'm joking...)
Thank you.


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## Coppers

Yes, if two people hate *each other*, but have to collaberate. I'm sure there's a phrase for this: a loyalty of convenience?


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## FCS

I would use "to meet someone halfway" i.e. accept some of their ideas and make concessions.


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## RocketGirl

How about "we've got to dilute the situation".  This is a common expression and it makes me think of pouring water into wine.


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## Kmyyy

Oh, I didn't know this expression, and I'm not sure of what it means... If I understand well, it is the contrary ( verser de l'huile sur le feu, for the french speakers) !

Edit : too late, what I said is for Tom 

RocketGirl, your expression is near this idea of dilution of the wine. In my opinion, it is the best translation.
Thank you


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## Coppers

_United by circumstances_


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## HogansIslander

What is the underlying connotation of diluting the wine?  Is the metaphor that working with someone you don't like will "taste" bitter, so you must dilute it?  

If so, you could say "grin and bear it", which means to smile even though you are not happy about what you have to do.

I had never heard "dilute the situation" before, but I googled it and there are a few occurrences (52) out there.  However, it seems to be used in ways that seem to be equivalent to "defuse the situation" - this means to try to fix something that is problematic - calming people down who are fighting, for example.  I am not sure this applies to Kmyyy's question either.


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## RocketGirl

Diffuse the situation would work too.


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## titeuf

Mettre de l'eau dans son vin as a french expression means the person that does has mellowed, is not as agressive as he used to be. Scotch neat is stronger than scotch and water.


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## HogansIslander

titeuf said:


> Mettre de l'eau dans son vin as a french expression means the person that does has mellowed, is not as agressive as he used to be. Scotch neat is stronger than scotch and water.



Well, this is completely different from the previously suggested translations then.    I can't think of a good suggestion but "to mellow out" is probably pretty safe.


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## RocketGirl

K Coppers, I must have fabricated the part about the third person in the story .

How about :  Although they can't stand eachother, they are united in their common goal to _____, and as such they just have to "grin and bear it" or something like that ?

If we heard the exact sentence that needed translating, we could come up with the best fit, Kmyyy.


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## Loic

"_To come down a peg or two_" : the idea is to become less ambitious or demanding or aggressive : making the wine less strong by adding water:
 choose a lower peg goes towards this idea of being less demanding etc.


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## Coppers

Loic said:


> "_To come down a peg or two_" : the idea is to become less ambitious or demanding or aggressive : making the wine less strong by adding water:
> choose a lower peg goes towards this idea of being less demanding etc.


*Coming down a peg or two *gives the idea of losing one's assumed status.

Mettre l'eau avec son vin = To take a chill pill.


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## RocketGirl

Loic said:


> "_To come down a peg or two_"



No, I wouldn't use that expression in this situation either.  It doesn't really give the sense of calming things down so that they are tolerable...if that makes sense.  The way I understand it, "bringing someone down a peg or two" is usually used when you want to do something mean to someone to bruise their ego or diminish their status at work or something.

More like "I'll spread some nasty rumors about him. That ought to bring him down a peg or two".  (off the top of my head)


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## Loic

Coppers said:


> *Coming down a peg or two *gives the idea of losing one's assumed status.
> 
> Mettre l'eau avec dans son vin = To take a chill pill.


Are you sure it isn't something you can do of your own accord too, and then it parallels the French idiom ???????


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## Nicomon

The exact French idiom is "Mettre de l'eau dans son vin", which would translate litterally as 
"Water down one's wine"... but of course, this isn't the idiom you're after. 

The expression as we should normally use it means either "_to climb down_" (modérer ses prétentions) or "_*to make concessions*_" (which is the situation in the current context). What we need - assuming there is one - is and idiom that means "making concessions". In my opinion, the closest so far was FCS (post # 5) 

By the way the common translations for "Grin and bear it" are "Faire contre mauvaise fortune bon coeur" / "Il faut le prendre avec le sourire"


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## Gil

Suggestion:
to back off a bit.


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## Coppers

Loic said:


> Are you sure it isn't something you can do of your own accord too, and then it parallels the French idiom ???????


Good point, in which case, as Nicomon says, FCS had it right with *meet each other halfway.*


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## catay

Quite similar to FCS and Nicomon's suggestion of _meet each other halfway_, here is another suggestion: _bury the hatchet_ (to reconcile hostilities and move on).


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## Nicomon

catay said:


> Quite similar to FCS and Nicomon's suggestion of _meet each other halfway_, here is another suggestion: _bury the hatchet_ (to reconcile hostilities and move on).


 
Yes, it might work. Robert & Collins also cite _bury the tomahawk. _There is an equivalent French expression: _Enterrer la hache de guerre. _Can you tell that I love idioms?


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## Tresley

How about:

"You need to water the situation down" [and just accept each other]?

It's just a suggestion!


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## kats

Could you say "Let it be water under the bridge and get on with the work?"

Or "let bygones be bygones" (and get on with the work at hand).


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## papillon

I think most commonly in this situation, at least in AE, you hear:

You _need to put aside your differences_ and work together...
sorry, no wine (or whiskey) in this one


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## Nicomon

kats said:


> Could you say "Let it be water under the bridge and get on with the work?"
> Or "let bygones be bygones" (and get on with the work at hand).


 
I wonder if the example given to describe _mettre de l'eau dans son vin _wasn't a teeny bit misleading. 
imo, these suggestions are in line with Catay's "_bury the hatchet_", and perfectly good ones to use in a "_I hate your face/no longer hate your face_" context. 
My only concern is that if I had to translate either of the 3 expressions, the French equivalent would not be "_mettre de l'eau dans son vin_", which really means... see post # 17.


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

the Robert and Collins dictionary recommends : climb down


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## broglet

RocketGirl said:


> Diffuse the situation would work too.


You mean defuse.


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## RocketGirl

broglet said:


> You mean defuse.


 Ok.


So I'm with Papillon on this one. "You _need to put aside your differences_ and work together..." This seems perfect to me. 

So where's Kmyyy on this one anyway? We're on to page three of guessing at what we think it should be and still no help with the actual sentence that needs translating


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## GEmatt

It's antiquated, but does "let bygones be bygones" fit the situation, too?


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## broglet

Jean-Michel Carrère said:


> the Robert and Collins dictionary recommends : climb down


Oui - je suis d'accord. Maurice Rat dans son "petit dictionnaire des locutions françaises" donne "mettre de l'eau dans son vin" = se modérer, être moins exigeant ou entier. 
It's not quite the same as telling two people to "put aside their differences". It is something *one* person does: he calms down and becomes less demanding.
But why adding water to wine would calm anyone down I can't imagine.   If anyone added water to _my_ wine, I would be enraged!


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## RocketGirl

broglet said:


> It's not quite the same as telling two people to "put aside their differences". It is something *one* person does: he calms down and becomes less demanding.


 
One person can put his differences aside. Doesn't always have to be two I don't think.


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## papillon

broglet said:


> ...It's not quite the same as telling two people to "put aside their differences". It is something *one* person does: he calms down and becomes less demanding.


I see now. I guess I was misled by this:


Kmyyy said:


> ... in France we say " *vous* devez mettre de l'eau dans votre vin", that means they must do efforts in both sides.


 In this case, putting aside differences means exactly that the effort comes from both sides.



broglet said:


> But why adding water to wine would calm anyone down I can't imagine.   If anyone added water to _my_ wine, I would be enraged!


ditto!


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## Nicomon

Jean-Michel Carrère said:


> the Robert and Collins dictionary recommends : climb down


 
Déjà mentionné au # 17.  Robert and Collins était en effet ma source.


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## catay

Nicomon said:


> Déjà mentionné au # 31. Robert and Collins était en effet ma source.


"Climb down" is not familiar to me.  How about others?  Are you familiar with this one?  It feels like it is missing something....climb down _from?_

A 1965 edition of Cassells' gives "come down a peg or two" as a definition for "mettre de l'eau dans son vin," but I agree with Rocketgirl and Coppers that this has more do with being humbled, more in line with "get off your high horse."


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## broglet

catay said:


> "Climb down" is not familiar to me. How about others? Are you familiar with this one? It feels like it is missing something....climb down _from?_
> 
> A 1965 edition of Cassells' gives "come down a peg or two" as a definition for "mettre de l'eau dans son vin," but I agree with Rocketgirl and Coppers that this has more do with being humbled, more in line with "get off your high horse."


"Climb down" is ordinary English. Well at least it is in England, but what do we know about it? "Come down a peg or two", on the other hand is not English. "He needs to be taken down a peg or two" is what we say in England. But not "come down a peg or two". We might, on the other hand, say "Take down a peg or two!" but only when we are giving instructions to someone at a clothes-line.

And Catay, what on earth are you doing with a 1965 edition of Cassells? 1965! That's a year before the last time England won the World Cup! Times change.


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## catay

Thanks, Broglet. I've heard the expression with both "he needs to come down a peg" "or be taken down a peg" over here. I'm just not familiar with "climb down."

My l965 Cassells' is actually pretty useful (and is a few years younger than myself  )....especially when I'm reading books in French. It has a number of idiomatic expressions, some now outdated, but surprisingly enough, others are still current. However, it's not my only dictionary...Chez moi, ils m'appellent "la reine de dictionnaires."


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## Coppers

I think this idea is about compromise between two people, not "being humbled". I'm sure in Canada you say "to meet each other halfway"?


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## RocketGirl

catay said:


> I'm just not familiar with "climb down."


 
I'm with my fellow Canadian on this one.  Never heard it, and I would have said it was a terrible translation except that an English-speaking person vouched for it.


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## Malcoha

_*"to make concessions"*_, as already proposed, seems good for me, at least it conveys the right idea. Most proposals missed the point that "mettre de l'eau dans son vin" has a more general sense. It's not only used for quarreling people, but everytime you need to lower your ambitions, your whishes. For example if you want to buy something but realize that you can only afford the  lower-level stuff... So it can be for one person alone, and is not always related to mood or something...

Unfortunately it's less "picturesque" than the other idioms...


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## RocketGirl

Coppers said:


> I'm sure in Canada you say "to meet each other halfway"?


 
   Of course we do, and in fact I think this is a pretty good suggestion.

Although you've shed a lot of light on the subject Molcoha, I still think there's a better expression than "make concessions" for this particular context.  But maybe it's just me.  I haven't heard that expression too much and so I'm partial to other ones.


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## Nicomon

RocketGirl said:


> I'm with my fellow Canadian on this one. Never heard it, and I would have said it was a terrible translation except that an English-speaking person vouched for it.


 
Hum... this fellow Canadian definitely would not second guess the work of the translators that put together the Robert & Collins dictionary.  Certainly you've heard  "climb up the ladder"  "climb down the ladder".  Both litterally and figuratively. Figuratively meaning for instance that you had a high level position, then the position is abolished, and you're ready to "climb down"  instead of being without a job.?


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## Malcoha

Oh, I'm also convinced that you natives will find a colorfull expression 
I just wanted to precise the sense of the original french expression...

Good luck!


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## Coppers

Nicomon said:


> Yes, it might work. Robert & Collins also cite _bury the tomahawk. _There is an equivalent French expression: _Enterrer la hache de guerre. _Can you tell that I love idioms?



Malcoha is right - Above is the American.

_Bury the Hatchet_ is more common in Britain.


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## Loic

catay said:


> A 1965 edition of Cassells' gives "come down a peg or two" as a definition for "mettre de l'eau dans son vin," but I agree with Rocketgirl and Coppers that this has more do with being humbled, more in line with "get off your high horse."


 
In post #30 I also suggested this translation. I found it in a book entitled :"Comment le dire en anglais ?" (Editions Alistair *1994) *
Besides when I read the author's names I find : Guy de Dampierre, all right, sounds French ! but also: Pamela Drinnan, Victoria Mortimer, Suzy Patterson ! They sound "slightly" more anglo-saxon, say, "British" (or American ??.)
So, dear Broglet, I beg to differ, in a very friendly way, rest assured  when you say that "come down a peg or two" is not English !
Why would these people suggest it then ? Still, I'm not saying that it works here, in this sentence-err... without much context.


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## catay

Désolée, Loic.    Indeed, you suggested this as well. (This thread is getting so long that it is difficult to keep track of everyone's contributions.) I  think "bury the hatchet" might work given the original context, but to each their own idiom. "Make concessions", "meet each other halfway," are both good suggestions, as well.


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## broglet

Loic said:


> So, dear Broglet, I beg to differ, in a very friendly way, rest assured  when you say that "come down a peg or two" is not English !
> Why would these people suggest it then ? Still, I'm not saying that it works here, in this sentence-err... without much context.


Mon cher ami méridional, peut-être ça se dit au Canada et même en Languedoc mais je ne l'ai jamais entendu ici dans le pays rosbifois. But perhaps I am wrong, so I have decided to *back down.* Bonne nuit à tous et à toutes xxx


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## Nicomon

Coppers said:


> Malcoha is right - Above is the American.
> 
> _Bury the Hatchet_ is more common in Britain.


 
To be honest, I don’t remember hearing the _Bury the tomahawk_ version in Quebec either. But I cited this Robert & Collins entry, as I found it interesting.  



Coppers said:


> I think this idea is about compromise between two people, not "being humbled". I'm sure in Canada you say "to meet each other halfway"?


 
Actually – assuming Robert & Collins is a reliable source – the expression 
"Mettre de l'eau dans son vin" can mean both humbled and compromise depending on context. 

Here's what I wrote in post # 31 (I was late joining the party)

The expression as we should normally use it means either "_to climb down_" (modérer ses prétentions) or "_to make concessions_" (which is the situation in the current context). What we need - assuming there is one - is and idiom that means "making concessions". In my opinion, the closest so far was FCS (post # 5) 

50 + posts later, and counting… many good ideas were given – I’m adding the French equivalents 

_Defuse the situation = Désarmorcer une crise / __Désenvenimer une relation_
_Grin and bear it = Faire contre mauvaise fortune bon coeur / le prendre avec le sourire_
_Bury the hatchet (tomahawk )= Enterrer la hache de guerre_
_Let bygones be bygones = Passer l’éponge / Oublier le passé_
_Put aside / Resolve differences = Mettre de côté ou résoudre des différends_

Those are all good to express – _Trying to get along / make up and be friends _and that’s why I said in # 39 that the example Mivvv gave was a little misleading. 

Because… this is not what "_Mettre de l’eau dans son vin_ " means. 

Loic (post # 26) suggested “_come down a peg or two” _which imo works perfect for meaning #1 (climb down for broglet ) 

And 50 + posts later, imo, FCS post # 5 *to meet each other halfway*… is still the best one so far, to give the idea of *compromise/concession*.


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## catay

One more possibility I didn't suggest yet...."Kiss and make up" , but it didn't seem to fit.


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## Nicomon

catay said:


> One more possibility I didn't suggest yet...."Kiss and make up" , but it didn't seem to fit.


 
That's the one I had in mind. I guess my "make up and be friends" above doesn't sound very idiomatic


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## vplasgirl

In the context you're presenting, "devoir mettre de l'eau dans son vin" suggests an intolerance between two positions which has led to conflict, therefore a need for "modérer ses X"  

So... I would suggest that "both parties need to temper their position", temper in this context meaning to make more temperate, acceptable, or suitable by adding something else... de l'eau dans son vin, perhaps.

Danielle


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## catay

Nicomon said:


> That's the one I had in mind. I guess my "make up and be friends" above doesn't sound very idiomatic


Oui, parfois ça marche....comme toujours ça dépend du contexte.


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## kats

What do you think of 

lighten up,

soften the edges, 

or smooth out the wrinkles?


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## Nicomon

kats said:


> What do you think of
> 
> lighten up, soften the edges, or smooth out the wrinkles?


 
I like lighten up. Depending on context (i.e. the way the author interprets "mettre de l'eau dans son vin") anything may work. 



Gil said:


> Suggestion:
> to back off a bit.


 
Bien sage avis Gil.  que j'aurais dû suivre bien avant. Donc 35 posts plus loin... je n'insiste plus... and I too, back down.


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## broglet

... of course, not everyone wants to admit they are backing down, especially when they have painted themselves into a corner. In the row over an employee who had got up on her high horse over her insistence on wearing a cross, British Airways have hitherto been ratcheting up the rhetoric.  But yesterday they euphemistically announced "we have decided to review our policy". It seems a bit of a climbdown to me: an attempt to cool it and pour oil on some very troubled waters. But I suppose they had to back off in the end - and one person's U-turn is another's policy review.


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## Nicomon

broglet said:


> ... of course, not everyone wants to admit they are backing down, especially when they have painted themselves into a corner. In the row over an employee who had got up on her high horse over her insistence on wearing a cross, British Airways have hitherto been ratcheting up the rhetoric. But yesterday they euphemistically announced "we have decided to review our policy". It seems a bit of a climbdown to me: an attempt to cool it and pour oil on some very troubled waters. But I suppose they had to back off in the end - and one person's U-turn is another's policy review.


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## bitchubitchi

Any idea about an expression equivalent to that in English?Litterally ,it means put water in one's wine,meaning being more moderate(words, behavior)...


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## Ann O'Rack

Tone things down. Tone it down.


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## broglet

Lighten up


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## JimboFr

Chill out?


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## Chris' Spokesperson

_Lighten up_ and _chill out_ don't mean the same as _tone it down_ which seems the best equivalent to me...certainly while trying to think of something more picturesque.  There is also, _take it down a notch_.


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## edwingill

"to mellow"


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## broglet

J'ai l'impression que "back off" marcherait très bien

"mellow" means something quite different (as in that well-known ecological maxim "if it's yellow let it mellow; if it's brown flush it down")


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## Chris' Spokesperson

Back off seems to me to be too imperative.

And mellow, as in if it's yellow let it mellow, means just that; to let be, to allow to relax, to calm down.

There is also 'simmer down' which could work too.  But so far the best have been tone it down, take it down a notch and to mellow.  In fact one could say that adding water to wine does indeed 'mellow' the flavour.  It's a word you could certainly find in recipe directions in association with taste.


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## broglet

J'ai l'impression que tu as tort, Chris: 'back off' n'est pas du tout impératif en soi et 'mellow' ne marche pas dans le contexte actuel. Je suis prêt à mettre de l'eau dans mon vin si tu arrives à offrir une meilleure traduction.


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## Chris' Spokesperson

Je l'ai déjà fait  - simmer down; to take something from its active boiling state down to a stable, more mellow, more chilled out state.

To 'back off' you have to 'back off something', it's not internal enough for the original expression.  You can, for instance, simmer down relative to yourself but you can't back off from yourself.


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## wildan1

There's also _to dial something back_ -- especially used in AE in a political or media context.


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## nhat

Tone down seems correct.
My teacher also thaught me "water down", which preserves the metaphor( "mettre de l'eau...")
and what about "edulcorate" ?

Il a mis de l'eau dans son vin concernant ses propos misogyne, en disant que les femmes pouvaient se montrer utiles dans certaines occasions.

He toned/watered down his misogynous assertions by conceding that women can be useful in some circumstances
? He edulcorated his misogynous assertions by.... ?


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## wildan1

_edulcorate_ is not usual in English

we say _to sweeten_, but I don't think it can work in this context.


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## broglet

nhat said:


> Tone down seems correct.
> My teacher also thaught me "water down", which preserves the metaphor( "mettre de l'eau...")
> and what about "edulcorate" ?
> 
> Il a mis de l'eau dans son vin concernant ses propos misogyne, en disant que les femmes pouvaient se montrer utiles dans certaines occasions.
> 
> He toned/watered down his misogynous assertions by conceding that women can be useful in some circumstances
> ? He edulcorated his misogynous assertions by.... ?


Bonjour nhat - ton professeur avait raison; 'water down' et 'tone down' sont parfaits dans ton contexte (mais 'edulcorate' ne marche pas).  On Pourrait également dire 'he pedalled back from his misogyny by conceding that women did have their uses'


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## broglet

Chris' Spokesperson said:


> To 'back off' you have to 'back off something', it's not internal enough for the original expression.


 Back off


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## Arrius

RocketGirl said:


> Diffuse the situation would work too.


 
I think you meant *defuse the situation* (as one does with a bomb), which isn't a bad suggestion.


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## lectrice

Modérer ses exigences ou ses ambitions - To eat humble pie
http://www.expressio.fr/expressions/mettre-de-l-eau-dans-son-vin.php
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/mettre_de_l’eau_dans_son_vin


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## nodnol

A)For me, tone down and water down are different, just as simplify and over-simplify are different. _[EDIT Others may be more familiar than I am with these two phrases and may be able to correct me, but my impression is that]_ gernerally, if something is watered down, it has become bland, lost much its value and is no longer authentic. 'Watered-down feminism.' And if I try to water down a statement that I made, I am probably just being hypocrtitical and presenting insincere excuses, whereas if I tone it down, or _pedal back_, I am recognising that I made mistakes and went too far. (I'm not sure about _back off_, but I think it is ok to say 'He backed off from his original statement, he retreated from his original statement')

You could just say *'*don't be so stubborn.' It all depends on context. Another thread with the same title http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=1523286&page=2 gives two more idiomatic ways of saying 'become less intransigent (/and haughty)': *climb down  *and *come down a peg or two.* If it is really a question of someone being haughty and superior, you could say: 'get off your high horse.'

I like the suggestion in post #12. I've heard it, but it is not used in the UK. 

And yesterday I heard the phrase 'mettre du vin dans son eau' meaning some writers become bolder as they age.


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## Markdowd

"to tone it down" I think works well in many circumstances....I've just heard on French Radio that those close to Trump have been called on to "mettre l'eau dans son vin"....with an implication to diluting the force and aggression of the post-election rhetoric....


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## joelooc

The trouble is this thread started on the false assumption that "mettre de l'eau dans son vin" has to do with relationships with people, whereas it has to do with the judgement people pass on someone who is/used to be/ a radical, a die-hard etc... and who has mellowed or will have to in order to adapt to a given situation.
Il/elle a mis de l'eau dans son vin = he/she's not as tough/inflexible/adamant/stubborn as he/she used to be . The image is that of John Wayne drinking his bourbon straight. Drinking it "on the rocks" would imply that he's not man enough to cope with a situation which requires personality.
The confusion is with "lâcher du lest":https://www.wordreference.com/fren/lâcher du lest
Politically speaking what the OP  probably meant was "to compromise" (as many contributors have already suggested) or phrases around "happy medium" or "middle ground" but that is not "mettre de l'eau dan son vin" that's "trouver un juste milieu".


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## Markdowd

Agree...there's been a semantic shift. It's not about making peace between people, but essentially making a less strident pitch on one's uncompromising views...."calling the dogs off?".....but let's not get into all that and where it could take us...


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