# Русская Водочная



## ChaosPhoenix7

I was walking around New York City over the weekend and found a restaurant called "Russian Vodka Room". Below that, it said "Русская Водочная". I recognize the root of водочная as вода, and by extension, водка, but where does the rest of it come from? Wouldn't a more appropriate translation of the name be "Русская комната из водка"?


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## Rosett

Водочная = место, где продают водку в розлив.
Там ее можно пить.

Room - это как сказать.
Салон русской водки.


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## morzh

ChaosPhoenix7 said:


> I was walking around New York City over the weekend and found a restaurant called "Russian Vodka Room". Below that, it said "Русская Водочная". I recognize the root of водочная as вода, and by extension, водка, but where does the rest of it come from?




Russian has a way of naming places where certain services (including food/drink) are rendered.

Examples:

Водочная - place where vodka is served.
Рюмочная - same thing, only from the word "рюмка" (wineglass, shot glass).
Пельменная - place where "pelmans" (russian version of dumpling - пельмени) is the main served item on the menu.
Сосисочная - place where franks (as for hotdogs) are served.
Чебуречная - place where mostly only "чебуреки" are sold (cheburek chiburekki, cheg burek, borek, qutab and such).

Now, from non-food services:

Примерочная - fitting room (from "примерять" _ to fit a clothing item).
Сварочная - place where welding is performed (сваривать - to weld together).



ChaosPhoenix7 said:


> Wouldn't a more appropriate translation of the name be "Русская комната из водка"?



1. You are trying to translate literally - NEVER a good way, though sometimes it works. 2. You going in reverse - "Russian vodka room" IS A TRANSLATION OF "ВОдочная" in the first place, not the other way around, so what you are doing is back-translation (from Russian to English, and then back to Russian).


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## ChaosPhoenix7

Thanks to both of you. I guess I assumed that since it was a store in New York City, that the name would be English first, then translated for show.


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## Valvs

Both the English and the Russian versions of the name obviously parallel (and have been probably copycatted from) Russian Tea Room/Русская чайная.


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## Maroseika

I don't think this term водочная ever existed. Looks like a clumsy neologism following the pattern of чайная, чебуречная. A house for drinking vodka was called пивная, распивочная, кабак and so on, but never водочная.


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## Valvs

Maroseika said:


> I don't think this term водочная ever existed. Looks like a clumsy neologism following the pattern of чайная, чебуречная. A house for drinking vodka was called пивная, распивочная, кабак and so on, but never водочная.



I agree with just one little exception: пивная is for drinking beer .


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## rusita preciosa

ChaosPhoenix7 said:


> "Русская комната из водки (gen)"?


 
Actually, you are not that far off. *Русская Водочная [комната]* had the same construction grammatically as, say, *печёночный паштет* (liver pâté). So if you were to understand that the room is made of vodka, it would be Русская комната из водки.


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## morzh

rusita preciosa said:


> Actually, you are not that far off. *Русская Водочная [комната]* had the same construction grammatically as, say, *печёночный паштет* (liver pâté). So if you were to understand that the room is made of vodka, it would be Русская комната из водки.



In the same thinking fashion "печёночный сосальщик" is also made out of liver.


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## Maroseika

Valvs said:


> пивная is for drinking beer .


Not at all.


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> Not at all.



I think this link you gave is actually refuting your point: except where at the beginning it says "*Пивна́я* — питейное заведение (учреждение общепита), в котором продаётся (и подаётся) пиво (*зачастую и крепкие спиртные напитки: водка, портвейн *и т. п.),"otherwise it talks of the beer being served only.

In my Soviet experience, most "пивняк-s" I visited had absolutely none whatsoever of liquor, and had ONLY beer.
Most actually had standing tables. With very typical smell of a beer place - smell of stale beer of un-wiped tables, and of salted dry fish.
The only one I saw that was a restaurant-like, with sitting tables, was in Leningrad, and the beer was served in....cups, from all things. Again, it served no strong liquor or wine. Only beer.

So, my experience is "Пивная - for drinking beer". I won't  deny exceptions, but to me they exactly that - exceptions, not the rule.


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## Valvs

maroseika said:


> not at all.



*ПИВНАЯ, ой, жен. Торговое заведение с распивочной продажей пива.* (Словарь Ожегова).

*ПИВНА́Я -ой; ж. Торговое заведение, где продают и пьют пиво. Маленькая п. Сходить в пивную. Пивных в городе мало. В пивной пива нет. Часто посещать пивные.* Большой толковый словарь русского языка (под редакцией С. А. Кузнецова)

*Пивная — ж. Торговое заведение, где продают и пьют пиво.*
Современный толковый словарь русского языка Ефремовой

*ПИВНАЯ ... 3. в знач. сущ. пивная, ой, жен. Питейное заведение, где продают и пьют пиво (разг.).* Словарь Ушакова. 

Достаточно?  А в Википедии кто угодно может написать что угодно.


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## Maroseika

valvs said:


> *
> Достаточно?  А в Википедии кто угодно может написать что угодно.*


*

Насколько мне (и, видимо, авторам Википедии) помнится, в пивных продавались и крепкие напитки. Впрочем, мы  можем и ошибаться.*


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## morzh

maroseika said:


> Насколько мне (и, видимо, авторам Википедии) помнится, в пивных продавались и крепкие напитки. Впрочем, мы  можем и ошибаться.




Безусловно. Все носили с собою водочку, и под столиком лили ее в пивко. :d Но это - для особо разборчивых.
А так - три пшика дихлофоса на кружку.
Крепче некуда :d


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## Natalisha

Maroseika said:


> Насколько мне (и, видимо, авторам Википедии) помнится, в пивных продавались и крепкие напитки.





morzh said:


> Безусловно. Все носили с собою водочку



"Продавали" and "носили с собой" are different verbs, aren't they?

Hearing the word "пивная" I have associations with beer, but I've never been there. So, I can't say what else they can sell in "пивная".


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## morzh

Natalisha said:


> "Продавали" and "носили с собой" are different verbs, aren't they?
> 
> Hearing the word "пивная" I have associations with beer, but I've never been there. So, I can't say what else they can sell in "пивная".



Well, I spent my fair share of time, money and health in "пивные" 
In one town I lived in there was just one such place, and it had "standing" tables, where one had to stand at a table while drinking; it served only beer as a libation, and sold black bread / salted herring "бутерброд-s" as the sole snack.

In another, larger town, there were several places, many of them exactly the same as the above-mentioned one, except they did not sell any snacks whatsoever; some had sitting places. One was under a tent and functioned only during summertime. 

The one I mentioned earlier, in Leningrad (today's ST. Pete) was more like a restaurant, with "civilized" snack (salted dry peas, salted croutons) already on the table, and with sitting places; clean, nice and all. But to my recollection it also served nothing but beer.

Obviously people who wrote the Wikipedia article did not pull it out of the thin air, and the type of places they describe, I think, exist. But somehow I think it is not your typical "Пивная", but rather an exception to the "beer-only" rule.


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## Rosett

Правильно было б назвать 
Russian Vodka Bar.


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## morzh

Rosett said:


> Правильно было б назвать
> Russian Vodka Bar.



No, nothing "правильно" about this.

What you suggest is descriptional.

I can also call a restaurant "Russian food restaurant".
Or I can call it "Borscht paradise".

One is description, one is a unique name.

"Russian vodka room", as it was noted before, is called in the fashion of very famous place "Russian Tea Room", by the Carnegie Hall, in Manhattan, NY.

There is no "right" or "wrong" in inventing commercial names, as long as you do not go overboard.


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