# Welsh: sai



## Gavril

P'nhawn da,

I've heard the form *sai* used in several contexts where it seems to mean "I'm not".

For example,

_Sai'n edrych arnot ti. _"I'm not looking at you."

I was never taught_ sai _when I studied Welsh, so my guess is that it's a regional form or a contraction of an older, longer verb form -- but if so, what older form does _sai_ come from?

Also, is it true that _sai _means "I'm not", or is its meaning broader than this?

Diolwch


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## seitt

I'm going to have to pass on that one, I'm afraid.

I don't want to rule it out completely given the abundance of dialectal forms we have in Wales, but I have completely failed to trace it anywhere, even in the excellent (but out-of-print) Caradog Welsh textbooks and Geiriadur Prifysgol Cymru http://www.wales.ac.uk/dictionary/pdf/GPC0018-09.pdf.


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## Tegs

Bore da! Yes, this does exist, and it is used only in south Wales._ Sa i_ is used for negatives in the first person. 

_Sa i_'n mynd heno wedi'r cyfan - I'm not going tonight after all. 

It's a contracted form of the verb "to be" - _bod_. As to how it came to be contracted in that form, it comes from the informal phrase 'does dim ohona i', literally 'none of me is' - an emphatic way of saying _I'm not_. (The un-contracted form of this phrase is _never _used though - it is always contracted this way.)

So, _Does dim ohona i yn mynd heno_ contracts to _Sa i'n mynd heno_. 

The other forms are:

You (informal) : _So ti'_n mynd te? - Are you not going then?
You plural (or you singular formal): _Smo_ _chi_'n mynd te? - are you not going then?

We: _Smo_ _ni'_n mynd wedi'r cyfan - we aren't going after all
They: _So nhw_'n mynd - they aren't going

Note that spellings may vary (e.g. simo fi, simot ti), as it is based on pronunciation. This is an informal verb form which is not used in written Welsh (except in very informal texts). It would be the same language register as forms like "I dunno" in English. 

Have a look at the BBC page about this verb form: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/ysbyty_brynaber/lessons/language/lang17.shtml


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## Gavril

Tegs said:


> Bore da! Yes, this does exist, and it is used only in south Wales._ Sa i_ is used for negatives in the first person.
> 
> _Sa i_'n mynd heno wedi'r cyfan - I'm not going tonight after all.
> 
> It's a contracted form of the verb "to be" - _bod_. As to how it came to be contracted in that form, it comes from the informal phrase 'does dim ohona i', literally 'none of me is' - an emphatic way of saying _I'm not_.



Thanks, I'm not sure I would have been able to guess that. As far as you know, is this way of negating verbs (_Does dim ohona i / Does dim ohonot ti, _etc.) mostly confined to southern Welsh dialects?

I think that it's widespread in Welsh to use _ohonaf / ohonot / ohono _etc. for the object of a negative verb (e.g., I was taught to say _Welais i (ddi)m ohono _"I didn't see him"), but this is (probably) the first time I've heard that it's used for the subject.


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## Tegs

Gavril said:


> Thanks, I'm not sure I would have been able to guess that. As far as you know, is this way of negating verbs (_Does dim ohona i / Does dim ohonot ti, _etc.) mostly confined to southern Welsh dialects? .



Don't worry, I had to ask a Welsh lecturer to explain the origins of it to me too! Even though I would use "sa i" myself, I couldn't for the life of me figure out where it came from! 

Yes, this is *only *used in southern Welsh. Since there are plenty of southerners living up north, and plenty of south-Walian Welsh on TV and radio, I would imagine most northerners would be aware of its existence and meaning. 



> I think that it's widespread in Welsh to use _ohonaf / ohonot / ohono _etc. for the object of a negative verb (e.g., I was taught to say _Welais i (ddi)m ohono _"I didn't see him"), but this is (probably) the first time I've heard that it's used for the subject.



*Ohono *etc are forms of the preposition *o*, meaning *of* or *from*. These forms are used if a pronoun follows the preposition (all other prepositions also change in this context). 

So, they are used in many contexts, not just for objects of negative verbs. For example:

Fe gymerais i lun *o Catrin *yn y bar - I took a photograph *of Catrin *in the bar. 

If you want to remove "Catrin" and instead say "of her", you can't use _o + hi _- you must use the right form of the preposition. So:

Fe gymerais i lun *ohoni* yn y bar - I took a photograph *of her *in the bar. 

Another example. Imagine four people trying to squash into the back seat of a very small car. One of them might say:

Lwcus bod neb *ohonon ni*'n dew! - It's a good thing none *of us* are fat! 

I hope that helps!


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## Cerinwen

'Sa i' is only used in south Wales, so you'll never hear it in the north.   


 It's often said with 'ddim', so 'Sa i ddim yn gwybod' means 'I don't know'.  Almost all from the north would know this, except for some children maybe.


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## Tegs

Cerinwen said:


> It's often said with 'ddim', so 'Sa i ddim yn gwybod' means 'I don't know'.



I'd be interested to know where you got this idea from. Have you heard it used yourself? 

"Sai i ddim" is grammatically incorrect, and coming from a very south Walian background, I have never heard it used. "Sa i ddim" is a double negative, so it turns what is supposed to be a negative phrase into a positive one. "Sai'n gwbod" means "I don't know", but "Sai ddim yn gwbod" would mean "I don't not know".

Maybe it is used by a few people who are not sure of their grammar, in the same way as you might hear people saying "I done that" rather than "I did that", but it definitely isn't used often.


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## Cerinwen

Yes of course lol - I'm a native speaker.  I don't know why they southerners use it with ddim.  I've just heard it a few times - maybe it's just used in certain areas of south Wales.  The one native speaker of the south Welsh dialect I knew left my workplace months ago, so I can't ask her :/  I could ask other people, but to be honest, I wouldn't really trust the answer unless I knew both of their parents spoke Welsh as well.


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## Tegs

Cerinwen said:


> I've just heard it a few times - maybe it's just used in certain areas of south Wales.  The one native speaker of the south Welsh dialect I knew left my workplace months ago, so I can't ask her :/



Ah yes, I can well believe that one person might use it!  I'd say that was the exception to the rule though, and not a norm. Most of my family are from the south, as are a large number of my colleagues. None of them say it


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## Cerinwen

Ok hehe. I'm not sure if she's the one who used it.  I have other Welsh speakers in my workplace I could ask, but I trusted her answers more.  I wish she still worked there because she was quite handy when I needed to ask 'How would you say this in south Walian?'.


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