# For want of a shoe



## briz_dad

I need to have a short description of a film I created in French... I need the description in french.

The film is about a child who can not find his shoes and socks and therefore may be late for school.

The english phrase I am using is a bit of a play on a common english quote, "For the want of a nail, the shoe was lost; for the want of a shoe the horse was lost; and for the want of a horse the rider was lost, being overtaken and slain by the enemy, all for the want of care about a horseshoe nail."


Thus, in english:
For want of a shoe, one might be late for school.

Right now, I have: "Pour voulez d'une chaussure, une pourrait être en retard pour instruire."

Is that correct? Is there a more appropriate way to phrase it in French? One that would make sense and have the same "sensibility" as the phrase in English?

Thank you for your time...

- Greg


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## flobel

Welcome onboard blalblabla .

Your french sentence is not that good.

I would translate :

Pour une chaussure, on peut finir en retard à l'école.

Florian


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## nils.pra

Hello: )

So what your looking for is a way to say that, that would sound like 
a "moral of the story" or "proverb", I got it right ? 

The only ideas I got so far, would be :
_A tant vouloir sa chaussure, on manque d'être en retard à l'école_.
_A tant vouloir une chaussure, on manque d'être en retard pour s'instruire_.

I guess the others great peeps around here can find better : )
I'll try to think about it more deeply and see if I can find something. 
Hope this helps anyway .

edit : oops flobel désolé encore post simultané


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## Cath.S.

J'ai trouvé cette traduction,
I found this translation of the famous Benjamin Franklin's quote:

_À cause du clou, le fer fut perdu_
_À cause du fer, le cheval fut perdu._
_À cause du cheval, le cavalier fut perdu._
_À cause du cavalier, la bataille fut perdue._
_À cause de la bataille, la guerre fut perdue._
_À cause de la guerre, la liberté fut perdue._
_Tout cela pour un simple clou_
Benjamin Franklin
Source

=>
_à cause d'une (simple) chaussure = for want of a shoe <= this is a translation_

la ponctualité fut perdue, et le prof se fâcha tout rouge !  =>this part is a joke.


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## nils.pra

^_^ excellent : )


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## alain larochelle

-Oh you have been using one of these silly useless automated translators, have you?  

*For the want of = Faute de.* ( i note that both these expressions are very specific to their respective language, but do mean without)
---Faute d'une chaussure, on pourrait être en retad à l'école.
But i'd go for: Faute d'une chaussure, on n'arrivera pas à temps sans faute à l'école. 
*Sans faute = without fail *(So, literally: one won't arrive in time without fail at school)


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## briz_dad

My apologies for my ignorance, but I know no French - A friend refered me to this site... so is this the correct phrase recommended for me to use?

"la ponctualité fut perdue, et le prof se fâcha tout rouge"


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## alain larochelle

Pour ce qui est du bon Benjamin, on aurait pu traduire:
_Faute d'un clou, d'un fer, d'un cheval, d'un cavalier_, et terminer par: _Par la faute d'une bataille, d'une guerre, la liberté fut perdue_

-Mais bon...


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## alain larochelle

-Briz, that was a joke by Egueule... She often does that. She was not translating, but you could use the cuteness of her adaptation, wich means: ...ponctuality was lost, and the teacher got all red angry.(somewhat with a childish tone)

Or go for my first simple suggestion. Or the second one wich 'recycles' two slightly differing meanings of *faute* in the same sentence.

(I answered for her because France's french are going to bed now . While Québec's french live just 8 hours north of New York)


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## Cath.S.

The beginning was not a joke :
à cause d'une (simple) chaussure

I agree with you, Alain, (par la) faute de is a good solution

Briz,
For want of a shoe, one might be late for school.
Par la faute d'une chaussure, / à cause d'une chaussure, on pourrait bien arriver en retard à l'école


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Il y avait aussi une chanson de Marie Laforêt je crois ("cadeau") où un petit garçon énumérait tout ce qu'il avait fait dans la journée.
Toutes les phrases commençaient par "pour avoir..." Par exemple : "pour avoir descendu les poubelles, 1 franc"...etc
Alors, pourquoi pas "Pour avoir cherché une chaussure" ?


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## alain larochelle

*Faute de* is stronger than *par la faute de*. *Faute de* and *for (the) want of* both indicate a lack, something missing. I rest my case.


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## briz_dad

If I am wearing out my welcome, please let me know before serious threats occure... I just really want to get it right:

So, "_Par la faute d'une bataille, d'une guerre, la liberté fut perdue"_

_...i__s the best choice for a play on words that might have the same humor in French?_

_merci_

_(and that is the extent of my French  )_


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## geve

alain larochelle said:


> *Faute de* is stronger than *par la faute de*. *Faute de* and *for (the) want of* both indicate a lack, something missing. I rest my case.


It's not that it's _stronger_ - it means something different. 
Faute de = for lack of
Par la faute de = because of

_À chaussure égarée, bonnet d'âne assuré_.  (classic proverb structure => A missing shoe means the dunce hat for you)


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## Cath.S.

alain larochelle said:


> *Faute de* is stronger than *par la faute *


I would tend to say the exact opposite.
Faute de = something is missing
Par la faute de = something is responsible for a bad situation

If you said
_Par la faute des grives, on mange des merles,_
it would sound like you're accusing the thrushes of making you eat blackbirds.

Briz, I have to explain that I'm quoting a well-known French proverb, _faute de grives on mange des merles_, need's must when the devil drives, but literally "for want of thrushes one eats blackbirds".


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## briz_dad

So... "_À chaussure égarée, bonnet d'âne assuré_." is an appropriate description of my film that would have a dual meaning for people who speak French as their first language???

To back up a little, the film is only two minutes, and is my son looking for his missing sock and shoe while my daughter (his oldest sister) yells at him to hurry up or they'll be late for school. He ends up with two different shoes on; a boot and a regular shoe.

In English, "For want of a shoe, one might be late for school." is a perfect description for the film and has a bit of humor to one from an English culture/background... or a familiarity.

I am attempting the same effect in French... and as mentioned, know no French to do so.

My hope is to enter in film festivals and some that I am interested in require a description in French.

*whew*


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## geve

briz_dad said:


> If I am wearing out my welcome, please let me know before serious threats occure... I just really want to get it right:
> 
> So, "_Par la faute d'une bataille, d'une guerre, la liberté fut perdue"_
> 
> _...i__s the best choice for a play on words that might have the same humor in French?_
> 
> _merci_
> 
> _(and that is the extent of my French  )_


"_Par la faute d'une bataille, d'une guerre, la liberté fut perdue"_ was not a suggestion for the sentence you want to translate; it was a proposition to meliorate the translation (that Egueule gave in post #4) of the original quote from Benjamin Franklin. 

The difficulty here is that the reference to the famous quote would not be that evident for French speakers. This is why natives are arguing as to what would best render the idea; no serious threat though, hopefully no one will get slain.


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## briz_dad

so my hope is that the phrase captures the humor of the piece, while still describing it.


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## geve

briz_dad said:


> So... "_À chaussure égarée, bonnet d'âne assuré_." is an appropriate description of my film that would have a dual meaning for people who speak French as their first language???
> 
> [...]
> 
> I am attempting the same effect in French... and as mentioned, know no French to do so.


The thing is, the reference to B. Franklin's quote wouldn't work that well in French as I said in my previous post. 
With my suggestion I tried to render a humorous effect by having a title that sounds like a proverb; but it does not refer to any famous quote, it surely isn't the same kind of humour. 
We should be able to find a famous French quote with a shoe in it, though... This sounds like an interesting translation problem! If you have a little patience and provide popcorn, you might just see your thread become a long list of inventive suggestions by inspired members.


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## Cath.S.

_La chaussure fatale = (_literally)_ The Fatal Shoe_

It is a joke (refers to the Fatal Attraction movie title, which is also famous in France) _and _a serious suggestion.  
It does not have the school element in it, but does your title really need to be a synopsis?


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## geve

On the movie track, there's Le grand blond avec une chaussure noire (= "the tall blond guy with a black shoe" - name of the movie).
=> _Le petit blond avec une chaussure manquante_ (the little blond guy with a missing shoe - or _Le petit brun_ if your son has dark hair...)


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## Cath.S.

geve said:


> On the movie track, there's Le grand blond avec une chaussure noire (= the tall blond guy with a black shoe).
> => _Le petit blond avec une chaussure manquante_ (the little blond guy with a missing shoe - or _Le petit brun_ if your son has dark hair...)


Aha! _This_ is what I call a great mind. 
Well found, Gève,   but I don't really like _chaussure manquante_, it sounds like an English structure to me ("missing shoe") but it might just be me. 
I would prefer: 
_le petit blond / brun / roux avec une seule chaussure noire_

Briz dad, what color are your son's shoes in the movie?


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## geve

egueule said:


> Aha! _This_ is what I call a great mind.
> Well found, Gève,  but I don't really like _chaussure manquante_, it sounds like an English structure to me ("missing shoe") but it might just be me.
> I would prefer:
> _le petit blond / brun / roux avec une seule chaussure noire_
> 
> Briz dad, what color are your son's shoes in the movie?


Well you brought me there with your movie suggestion so I can only say "great mind toi-même !" 
I wasn't very pleased with the "manquante" indeed. With your improvement it's much better!


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## nils.pra

Puisqu'on en est à divaguer,
On pourrait trouver quelque chose avec "va-nu-pied" aussi. 
Ou "pas de chaussure, pas d'école" ("pas de bras, pas de chocolat")
Désolé il est tard j'ai craqué ; )


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## KaRiNe_Fr

L'enfant qui ne trouva pas chaussure à son pied ?
(référence à "l'homme qui..." et l'expression "trouver chaussure à son pied"... Oui, il est tard aussi !  )


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## briz_dad

I think we are getting close  

The title is already in place: "The Shoe"

I am looking for a description for film festival submissions - some require a description in French.

My son's hair is blond and very curly. He ends up with a tan boot and a brown shoe.

I would like the same "chuckle" from the description in French. If you give me a couple of minutes, I will upload the video to my server (windows media video for now...)


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## KaRiNe_Fr

L'enfant qui marchait à côté de ses pompes... ?
(il est de plus en plus tard...)


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## briz_dad

Video: www gregwilkermedia com /theShoe.wmv

I had to break it up since I have not posted 30 posts yet - but I must be getting close by now.  


I want the description to have the same "flavor"/humor of the video.

One of the festivals that requires the French description is Festival de Cannes.


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## Gil

Proust m'inspire toujours:
À la recherche...
de la deuxième godasse.


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## briz_dad

Gil said:


> Proust m'inspire toujours:
> À la recherche...
> de la deuxième godasse.


 
Okay, another joke, right?


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## Gil

briz_dad said:


> Okay, another joke, right?



A retranslation would be
In search of the second shoe

Copied from
In search of lost time. (Marcel Proust)

I note that the kid was looking for his second shoe in order to get to school on time.


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## flobel

briz_dad said:
			
		

> http://www.gregwilkermedia.com/theShoe.wmv



So funny! I like, I really like! I vote for you 

I really like the silent movie style (the music and all).

It seems your host is not very powerful (low bitrate), if you want I can put it on a (my) french "website".

Back to the subject now. This thread is very interesting. I wonder if a french guy with one of the propositions could get the english "For the want of a shoe..." 

My initial proposition was "Pour une chaussure", I think it's not necesary to put anything after "Pour" : "Pour une chaussure perdue, un retard à l'école". But it's not as funny as the "petit blond" one. What's funny is that in the movie, you discover the guy with the black shoe as the top of an escalator, and in your movie we discover the boy at the top of stairs. A kind of reference, even if you don't know anything about the french movie. So the title with the "petit blond" really fits!

I pr opose"Le petit blond (he is ) avec une bottine marron" (marron = brown), because in the movie (the initial french movie), the guy has two different shoes, but the title refers to only one.

Florian


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## briz_dad

flobel said:


> I propose"Le petit blond (he is ) avec une bottine marron" (marron = brown), because in the movie (the initial french movie), the guy has two different shoes, but the title refers to only one.


 
I like this one, also. It has the cultural reference and humor of the English one.. and also has the inside joke by referencing the older French film. (My father took me to see this film when I was young and I thought it was very funny!!  )

I think I will go with "Le petit blond avec une bottine marron".

Thank you for the kind offer of hosting on your server... I'm not sure I want it too public yet on the internet - fearing that some festivals would pass if they think it has already been seen by too many people... 

But all of this talk did get me to thinking that it could be fun to have a French version where the title frames are in French.. any volunteers for translation?  

And thank you all for your help!

Sincerely,
Greg


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## briz_dad

Okay.. I had to work yesterday, so this is a bit late in coming. And please excuse me if this is just poor French.. A friend gave me this translation; let us remember, it is the thought that counts :

Mes mercis sincères à chacun dans cette communauté merveilleuse de WordReference. Je vous souhaite à tout le monde beaucoup de succès et de joie dans votres vies.


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## liulia

It seems to me that _À chaussure égarée, bonnet d'âne assuré _captures the very same idea of the English title: getting into trouble at school because he couldn't find his shoe. Yes?


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## briz_dad

This is my thoughts about it...

It does not quite capture the same meaning because:

1. The english version is also a play on a well known english phrase
2. He does not actually get into trouble
3. The movie is done with humor, so having a description with humor is what I was looking for... just as the english version has humor from the similarity of the well known phrase.

So, the reference to the well known French comedy i think is the best choice given.


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