# デモをすることで



## theseus_

Context:
今日は結婚式で飾りに使う物を車で結婚式場に運んで、予行練習もしました。デモをすること*で*、一気に結婚式をする実感が湧きました。でも旦那さんにお願いしたものができてないので、少し不安です。

（1） I found a dictionary entry of "で", and felt this two explanations all can explain "で" in "デモをすること*で*".


> で
> 〘断定の助動詞「だ」の連用形〙→だ





> で
> ㈠ 　〘格助〙
> ...
> ❸ 原因・根拠を表す。
> 「心臓発作で入院する」
> 「不注意で事故を起こす」
> 「雨で中止になる」


----「で」の検索結果 - 広辞苑無料検索 明鏡国語辞典

According to the sentence meaning, I guess "で" in "デモをすることで" means because or by, as "By doing a trial run of the wedding, the feeling of having the wedding soon washed me over."
But in the construction of the sentence, I thought "デモをすることで" is a clause, before it connected to the next clause, "だ" had be changed to"で" (May I call it "中止形"?).

What exactly is this "で"? Can it conform to both two explanations, or maybe I'm wrong about something?

(2) Do "デモをすること" and "予行練習もしました" refer to the same behavior?


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## SoLaTiDoberman

I feel as though I had deja vu.

友達は抱っこしたり、授乳させたりで忙しそうでした

Just like the previous discussion, I also think this だ should be 格助詞 attached to a noun デモをすること. And its function should be 原因・根拠を表す.

If I suppose that デモをすることで is the 連用形 of デモをすることだ, the stand-alone sentence (我々が）デモをすることだ seems just weird for me, because a normal sentence should contain a certain meaning. This sentence can mean nothing.
『一気に結婚式の実感を湧かせる良い方法があるとすると、それはデモをすることだ』 is a perfect sentence though.
If the 連用形 were used for making 倒置構文, it might make sense, but I don't think so.

Therefore, in my opinion, I advise you to analyze it as 原因・根拠を表す格助詞.

>According to the sentence meaning, I guess "で" in "デモをすることで" means because or by, as "By doing a trial run of the wedding, the feeling of having the wedding soon washed me over." 

However, I'm not sure whether other members may think it as「だ」の連用形 in this context too, or not.

＞(2) Do "デモをすること" and "予行練習もしました" refer to the same behavior?
Yes. 予行練習＝デモ.　
They are just paraphrasing.

By the way, I enjoy reading the blog you're quoting, and I wonder what 旦那さんにお願いしたもの is.
I guess it is the final wedding speech by the husband.

By the way, you can get the meaning of quoted sentences because they are always provided with the Chinese translation, right?
Aren't the Chinese version accurate?


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## theseus_

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> I feel as though I had deja vu.
> 
> 友達は抱っこしたり、授乳させたりで忙しそうでした
> 
> Just like the previous discussion, I also think this だ should be 格助詞 attached to a noun デモをすること. And its function should be 原因・根拠を表す.
> 
> If I suppose that デモをすることで is the 連用形 of デモをすることだ, the stand-alone sentence (我々が）デモをすることだ seems just weird for me, as a normal sentence that contains a certain meaning.
> 『一気に結婚式の実感を湧かせる良い方法があるとすると、それはデモをすることだ』 is a perfect sentence though.
> Nevertheless, 連用形 cannot be used for making 倒置構文 in this context.
> 
> Therefore, in my opinion, I advise you to analyze it as 原因・根拠を表す格助詞.
> However, I'm not sure whether other members may think it as「だ」の連用形 in this context too, or not.


Thanks for analyzing it for me! And I apologize for not finding my past post.

Would the red "だ" is "で"? Pardon me if I misunderstand.

Now I think this で is "格助詞", and its function is expressing reasons, so may I say it is a particle("助詞") for adverbial modifier, that is "格"of "格助詞で" is adverbial?



SoLaTiDoberman said:


> ＞(2) Do "デモをすること" and "予行練習もしました" refer to the same behavior?
> Yes. 予行練習＝デモ.
> They are just paraphrasing.
> 
> By the way, I enjoy reading the blog you're quoting, and I wonder what 旦那さんにお願いしたもの is.
> I guess it is the final wedding speech by the husband.


"予行練習＝デモ", I got it.

Here is the source link, although it isn't some kind of blog. All items are Chinese on the list, but you can click on any one to see the Japanese text in the additional information.  
HiNative | A question and answer community for language learners.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

>Would the red "だ" is "で"? Pardon me if I misunderstand.

Sorry. You're correct. It should have been で.
And thank you for the link.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

＞Now I think this で is "格助詞", and its function is expressing reasons, so may I say it is a particle("助詞") for adverbial modifier, that is "格"of "格助詞で" is adverbial?

No. 格助詞 and 副助詞 are classified as different in Japanese grammar.
See:
格助詞とは？覚え方や見分け方を簡単に解説
副助詞とは？覚え方や見分け方を簡単に解説

格助詞's 格 means "indicating" or "classifying."

格助詞 indicates the function of the previous noun.
「先生から　生徒へ　指示が　あった。」
from the teacher
to the students
the instruction (was shown.) (There is no subject indicating preposition/particle in the English grammar.)

In the case of English, a preposition indicates the function of the noun just after it:
_"that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
人民の、人民に（よる）、人民の（ための）　政府は、永遠*だ*。_


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## theseus_

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> ＞Now I think this で is "格助詞", and its function is expressing reasons, so may I say it is a particle("助詞") for adverbial modifier, that is "格"of "格助詞で" is adverbial?
> 
> No. 格助詞 and 副助詞 are classified as different in Japanese grammar.
> See:
> 格助詞とは？覚え方や見分け方を簡単に解説
> 副助詞とは？覚え方や見分け方を簡単に解説
> 
> 格助詞's 格 means "indicating" or "classifying."
> 
> 格助詞 indicates the function of the previous noun.
> 「先生から　生徒へ　指示が　あった。」
> from the teacher
> to the students
> the instruction (was shown.) (There is no subject indicating preposition/particle in the English grammar.)
> 
> In the case of English, a preposition indicates the function of the noun just after it:
> _"that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
> 人民の、人民に（よる）、人民の（ための）　政府は、永遠*だ*。_


Thanks for the explanation and useful links, スカイクロラさん.

"There is no subject indicating preposition/particle in the English grammar." refer to "が" in "指示が", right?

Now I guess "格助詞で" with the previous noun formed the complement(補語) of the sentence, but I also realise that distinguishing between adverbial and  complement in this case may not mean much.


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## KLAUSED

I think it's just a case of whether the で can be replaced with によって.
で as the 連用形 of 断定の助動詞「だ」 cannot be replaced with によって, whereas 原因・根拠を表す「で」can.

【連用形】
吾輩は猫である。=>吾輩は猫によってある。
さわやかな風である。=>さわやかな風によってある。

【原因・根拠を表す】
心臓発作で入院する。=>心臓発作によって入院する。
不注意で事故を起こす。=>不注意によって自己を起こす。
雨で中止になる。=>雨によって中止になる。

Since デモをすることで、一気に結婚式をする実感が湧きました。 can be rewritten as デモをすることによって、一気に結婚式をする実感が湧きました。, I'd say the で here is 原因・根拠を表す and not the 連用形 of だ.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

@#7:  I like your explanation, *KLAUSED*, and I'd like to ask your opinion about another で in the thread:
友達は抱っこしたり、授乳させたりで忙しそうでした

Moderator Note: Discussions about で after たり have been moved to the appropriate thread.


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## theseus_

KLAUSED said:


> I think it's just a case of whether the で can be replaced with によって.
> で as the 連用形 of 断定の助動詞「だ」 cannot be replaced with によって, whereas 原因・根拠を表す「で」can.
> 
> 【連用形】
> 吾輩は猫である。=>吾輩は猫によってある。
> さわやかな風である。=>さわやかな風によってある。
> 
> 【原因・根拠を表す】
> 心臓発作で入院する。=>心臓発作によって入院する。
> 不注意で事故を起こす。=>不注意によって自己を起こす。
> 雨で中止になる。=>雨によって中止になる。
> 
> Since デモをすることで、一気に結婚式をする実感が湧きました。 can be rewritten as デモをすることによって、一気に結婚式をする実感が湧きました。, I'd say the で here is 原因・根拠を表す and not the 連用形 of だ.


 Thanks to give the new solution for the problem.


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