# in de puree (in trouble)



## ThomasK

In Dutch we can use the names of a lot of dishes (general mash-like) to refer to "in trouble": _in de puree_, _in de rats_ (short for _ratatouille_), etc.

Can you be in such "gastronomical trouble" in your language too?


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## ilocas2

Czech:

*být v kaši* -to be in puree, mash, mush, pap, pulp, paste
*být v bryndě* - (I wrote this idiom in this thread already)


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## apmoy70

In Greek we are in trouble when we're in the meat mincer and we're about to be made minced meat:
*«Κιμάς»* [ciˈmas] (masc.) --> _minced meat_ < Tur. kiyma, _minced meat_.


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## ThomasK

So indeed. I wonder what the origin could be. I suppose it has to do with being crushed. Most of these expressions seem to refer to mixtures and kind-of stews, where everything is reduced to bits and mixed.


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## velisarius

In  English one may be "in the soup" or "in a pickle". 
(You may also find yourself "in a jam", but I don't think it refers to the jam you spread on your toast.)
in the soup
in a pickle


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## Armas

Finnish:

_olla liemessä_ "to be in broth"
_joutua liemeen_ "to get into broth"


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## ger4

German: _im Schlamassel stecken _

Even though _Schlamassel_ sounds quite onomatopoetic (_Schlamm_ = 'mud') it is thought to have its origins in a negated form of Yiddish _mazel '_luck, fortune' (compare the expression _mazel tov_). So, apparently no link with a mud-like substance...


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## ThomasK

More Czech (mentioned in the thread mentioned above), thanks to Bibax:

být v "pěkné" kaši = to be in the "nice" mash/purée/porridge (= Brei in German; in der Patsche sitzen);
být v rejži = to be in the rice;
být v troubě = to be in the oven;
být v loji = to be in the tallow;

Not so sure about the kneading, though again that is some form of mash, if you wish to:

And we knead dough for troubles.

Je zaděláno na na problém. = It [dough] has been kneaded for a problem.
Zaděláváš si na problémy. = You are kneading [dough] for troubles.

zavařit (si) pěknou kaši (Russ. завари́ть ка́шу) = to cook up "nice" mash/purée (to oneself);


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## Nawaq

In French for now I can only think of _"être dans la mélasse"*_, we've got so many food-related expressions etc, but nothing come to mind for "being in trouble" specifically...

I am really just very dumb because I'm sure there's a ton of it, I just thought of "_être dans le pétrin_".

*(lit. "being in molasses")


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## ThomasK

Interesting!

In the meantime I keep wondering about the logic of this association. I think it is a mixture, a real mess (or mash), in general, in the sense that one can no long distinguish the different parts, i.c. ingredients. But I formulated a similar guesst before, I now see. 

It reminds me of solving problems: problems seem like chaos and the verbs used generally have to do with dis-entangling, loosening, etc. (see this thread; I am referring to the ex-plaining part).


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## ThomasK

In Polish (contribution by Grzimi at All Slavic languages):
_
nawarzyć piwa_ (to brew [a lot of] beer) or _narobić bigosu _(to make [a lot of] sauerkraut, cabbage and meat stew)_ = _to mess things up


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## franknagy

In Hungarian:
*Pác*ban van = Ze is in the *pickle*.


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## ThomasK

So again some kind of mixture... Thanks!


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## Kotlas

ThomasK said:


> zavařit (si) pěknou kaši (Russ. завари́ть ка́шу) = to cook up "nice" mash/purée (to oneself);



In Eastern Europe, kasha is a dish made of any kind of grains boiled in water or milk; for example, _porridge_ is _kasha_ made of oat. (But of course kasha can be also made of buckwheat, rice etc). So we have this phrase for a person who has created a complicated situation fraught with trouble:
Ну и заварил ты кашу! (you cooked some kasha, you sure did!).
Quite frequently, the phrase doesn't end there and its full version will be then:
Заварил кашу - сам её и расхлёбывай (You cooked this kasha, so you yourself slurp it up (eat it up)!
The meaning of the phrase is, understandably, this: "clean up your own mess (if it's your fault, you have to face the music)".


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## ThomasK

Thanks. These 'mash'/... expressions keep turning up in European languages. Any people from other continents around to tell us whether they can trace expressions like above in their languages (like Japanese, Chinese, and other Asian languages)?


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## Ghabi

In Cantonese, the expression daai6wok6 ("big wok", wok6 being the origin of English "wok") is used as a predicate for "to be in trouble", but no food is mentioned. For some unknown reason the utensil is often associated with trouble, for example "to carry the wok on one's back" (me1wok6) means "to take the blame".


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## ThomasK

That is an intriguing addition!!! Thanks!


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## franknagy

Kotlas said:


> I
> Заварил кашу - сам её и расхлёбывай


Hungarian counterpart = Edd meg, amit főztél!
Ешь что заварил!


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## ThomasK

Could anyone give me a translation of the above phrases. Hungarian seems to be something "Eat what you cook", and Russian would be something like "Brewed porridge - the self (???) and de-confuse/dissolve (decipher)", at least according to Google T... Thanks in advance!

@Ghabi: do you consider wokking cooking & mixing? Is a wok like a mixer (but no cutting)? Carrying one's wok then implies having trouble? Is there some special reason for the wok causing trouble? (In our languages the words used refer to some kind of mess (mash), not very nice to look at, etc., like chaos...


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## Kotlas

franknagy said:


> Ешь что заварил!


Ешь что заварил! Eat what you cooked!
Very similar to the Russian phrase, only we use the verb _slurp_ to show disapproval (instead of the neutral _eat_).
Заварил кашу - сам её и расхлёбывай (You cooked this kasha, so you yourself slurp it up (eat it up)!


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## ThomasK

Could you give us a context where you use that expression? Something like when someone suffers as a result of his own doing? Only extra question: does this kind of cooking imply mash, mess or something like that?


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## Kotlas

Hello Thomas,
Kasha - Wikipedia is made by boiling (see post #14), and no mashing is involved in the process.
(I am a fan of kasha, I just boil it and stir often, that's all. When it's done, one can add butter, a little sugar and even some jam or a little syrup if one has a sweet tooth)
As for an example of a context for the phrase, here it is:

Son: Dad, we had a test today, and I tried to copy from my classmate's paper, and the teacher caught me doing that.
Father: And do you expect me to feel sorry for you now?
Son: The teacher said I would have to do extra work after every school day for a week.
Father: Well, you cooked this kasha, so you yourself "slurp it up" (eat it up).


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## ThomasK

I see: it is like porridge, and it might be called a mixture, but not mashed indeed. Don't know whether this might fit into my hypothesis, but not unlikely, I think. I think in our culture and language is generally considered like staple food, I'd think, offering power or vitality. But who knows, there might be another meaning...


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## ilocas2

This idiom is also used in the 6th most viewed video on Youtube - *Маша плюс каша* at the end as a pun - in the literal and in the idiomatic meaning.


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## SuperXW

Ghabi said:


> For some unknown reason the utensil is often associated with trouble, for example "to carry the wok on one's back" (me1wok6) means "to take the blame".


Isn't that because "wok6" sounds similar to 禍"wo6" (bad thing, disaster)?


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## bearded

In Italian (besides other expressions like _essere nei guai(to be in troubles) _or vulgar _essere nella merda(in the shit) _we also have _essere nei pasticci _(_literally_:_ to be in pies/meatpies), _thus continuing the gastronomic series.


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## Frieder

In *German* we also have _sich eine (schöne) Suppe einbrocken_. (to put chunks of bread into your soup – to be in deep trouble)

And of course there's a follow-up: „Du hast dir die Suppe eingebrockt, jetzt musst du sie auch auslöffeln.” (Now that you put bread into your soup you'll have to spoon it up).

Note that the word _einbrocken_ only continues to exist in this idiom. Otherwise it's gone out of use.


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## ThomasK

Thanks! I am just wondering whether we are using the dish in the same way: we are in the middle of it and don't consider eating it, whereas you seem to have mismanaged (?) your soup and then pay the price. It would be different if we were in der Suppe! ;-)


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## ThomasK

Well, here we have it: in an article on social problems due to bureaucracy, someone complains that people _verdrinken in de soep _[drowning in the soup], thereby using a dramatic metaphor that I do not consider standard [who'd ever consider swimming in soup??? I have never come across it] but still comprehensible. Soup seems to refer to something messy, somehow dangerous to some extent, maybe like a lake perhaps.

[I did find one reference to fish drowning in the plastic ocean soup, but that soup is different from the above one, I think.]


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## bearded

ThomasK said:


> _verdrinken in de soep _[drowning in the soup]


In Italian there is a similar expression ''_annegare in un bicchier d'acqua'' (to drown in a glass of water), _but the meaning is different, namely 'to surrender even to small difficulties', to be helpless in front of tiny troubles.


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## franknagy

Holger2014 said:


> German: _im Schlamassel stecken _
> 
> Even though _Schlamassel_ sounds quite onomatopoetic (_Schlamm_ = 'mud') it is thought to have its origins in a negated form of Yiddish _mazel '_luck, fortune' (compare the expression _mazel tov_). So, apparently no link with a mud-like substance...



This Jiddish word has got the meaning "we are in the puree" in Hungarian:
- Benne vagyunk a slamasztikában.

In hungarian we can be in the shit ,
- "benne vagyunk a szarban";
in the jam:
- "benne vagyunk a lekvárban",


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## ThomasK

I suppose the sh... can be considered a concoction of various foods of course, indeed. So we keep going on!


Kotlas said:


> Hello Thomas,
> Kasha - Wikipedia is made by boiling (see post #14), and no mashing is involved in the process.
> (I am a fan of kasha, I just boil it and stir often, that's all. When it's done, one can add butter, a little sugar and even some jam or a little syrup if one has a sweet tooth)
> As for an example of a context for the phrase, here it is:
> 
> Son: Dad, we had a test today, and I tried to copy from my classmate's paper, and the teacher caught me doing that.
> Father: And do you expect me to feel sorry for you now?
> Son: The teacher said I would have to do extra work after every school day for a week.
> Father: Well, you cooked this kasha, so you yourself "slurp it up" (eat it up).



I think this expression is different. It means: bear the consequences  of your own acts.


SuperXW said:


> Isn't that because "wok6" sounds similar to 禍"wo6" (bad thing, disaster)?


I now think: the wok is the basis of a food mixture, and maybe, as a metonymy, one could replace the means by the results...


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## ThomasK

bearded said:


> In Italian (besides other expressions like _essere nei guai(to be in troubles) _or vulgar _essere nella merda(in the shit) _we also have _essere nei pasticci _(_literally_:_ to be in pies/meatpies), _thus continuing the gastronomic series.


I was just told that one can be "in brodo" (broth) in Italian...


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## bearded

''In brodo'' is not very common and cannot be understood everywhere in Italy.


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## sound shift

In BrE, things can "go pear-shaped": a slang way of saying "go badly wrong" ('scheeflopen' in Dutch, I believe).


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## ThomasK

@bearded :   As for the "in brodo": thanks, but whether it is wide-spread is not that important in this connection. The main thing as for me is to see whether it turns up in lots of languages --- which seems to be the case...

@sound shift: that is interesting, but I'd say I am not sure there could be an (inherent...) link with the "in the [MIX]" expressions...


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