# I'm Dutch if...



## Tez_ja

Cosa significa: "I'm Dutch if...."? Pensavo: "Non sono più io se..." ma mi hanno detto, che non è cosi.
 Se potete spiegarmi sarò molto contenta. Sarebbe bello anchè con qualche esempio ( una frase completa).


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## lsp

Sì che sarebbe bello una frase completa!


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## Tez_ja

Solo che io ho soltanto queste parole che ho scritto la su. Voglio sapere: queste parole possono significare: "Non sono più io se..."?


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## lsp

Well, you started with the English, "I'm Dutch if..." which is an expression I've never heard or read anywhere, so I don't know what it means or how it translates. I hoped to get a sense of it from the rest of the sentence. Sorry.

I only found 20 Google results, but one of them was right in our own backyard, from a dear old friend of WR.


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## Tez_ja

Guarda, ho trovato queste parole nella terza lezione d'inglese. Ho appena cominciato studiare ( per sfortuna da sola) e già una bella sorpresa. 

Grazie.

Grazie Isp di questo link.

Ma adesso, poi spiegarmi in italiano ( o polacco) questa fraze:

I'm Dutch if we are not hearty eaters..."

Sarei molto grata.


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## lsp

Tez_ja said:


> Grazie *L*sp di questo link.
> 
> Ma adesso, poi spiegarmi in italiano (o polacco) questa fra*s*e:
> 
> I'm Dutch if we are not hearty eaters..."
> 
> Sarei molto grata.


Purtroppo non sono ancora riuscita a capire il senso.


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## Mark Valsi

I don't know how to explain it very well in Italian, but it is somewhat of an ironic expression, e.g.

"I'm Dutch if OHIO STATE is not the best college football team in america"!

in altre parole, non e vero ! ????


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## SweetSoulSister

It's a little silly, but many people say,

"I'm a monkey's uncle if..."

I haven't ever heard of "I'm Dutch if..." but I guess if it was *clearly* a non-Dutch person saying it, I guess it could work


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## Tez_ja

Ho capito.
 Grazie, siete bravissimi.


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## Mark Valsi

I'm a monkey's uncle, and I'm Dutch express similar ideas.

However, in this day of Political correctness, one should not use "i'm dutch" as you may offend some one who has a thin skin !

Tot Ziens 

Dutch for arrivederci


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## Tez_ja

Non penso di usare questa frase. Solo, che l'ho incontrata nella mia lezione d'inglese, allora volevo sapere cosa significa . 

 Grazie d'avvertimento e scusa dei errori. La mia conoscenza della lingua italianai non è ancora tanto profonda ( l'inglese invece, appena
 ho cominciato).


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## laurentius67

Tez_ja said:


> Non penso di usare questa frase. Solo, che l'ho incontrata nella mia lezione d'inglese, allora volevo sapere cosa significa .
> 
> Grazie d'*dell'*avvertimento e scusa dei *per gli* errori. La mia conoscenza della lingua italianai *italiana* non è ancora tanto profonda ( l'inglese invece, appena ho *l'ho appena* cominciato).


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## lsp

SweetSoulSister said:


> It's a little silly, but many people say,
> 
> "I'm a monkey's uncle if..."  ...



"_Many_ people say"? I haven't heard it in years (maybe _never_ in person, come to think of it).


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## Tez_ja

laurentius67 said:


>


 
 Grazie. Si vede che ho ancora tanto da imparare.


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## mateintwo

One say at least in New York *to go Dutch = *sharing the bill in the restaurant (come in Italiano si dice facciamo alla romana).

Person A meeting B outside the restaurant says: Let’s go Dutch and person B then says
I'm Dutch if we are not hearty eaters.

E come dire in Italiano: Io sono romano se non mangiamo troppo

Che ne dite? Fa senso?
Why they would use this obscure phrase in an English text book is another question?


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## Tez_ja

mateintwo said:


> One say at least in New York *to go Dutch = *sharing the bill in the restaurant (come in Italiano si dice facciamo alla romana).



Si, questo ho trovato nella stessa lezione d'inglese. L'hanno spiegato nello stesso modo come hai spiegato tu: "fare alla romana". 

 Ma frase "I'm Dtch if..." hanno spiegato cosi, come ho scritto prima. E, secondo me, non ha senso. Ma adesso, dopo tutti questi spiegazi, capisco. Non so come dire in italiano, ma da noi si dice ( più o meno): "posso morire se non è cosi" ( o una cosa simile)




			
				mateintwo said:
			
		

> Why they would use this obscure phrase in an English text book is another question?


 
 Questa frase hanno scritto come l'esempio di usare la parola "Dutch". Non solo come nome di una nazione, ma anche come modo di dire...


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## mgc

If you go out to a restaurant you can say: I'm Dutch if you are. 
Meaning I'll pay my bill if you will. Facciamo alla romana.


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## Tez_ja

mgc said:


> If you go out to a restaurant you can say: I'm Dutch if you are.
> Meaning I'll pay my bill if you will. Facciamo alla romana.


 
 No, "Facciamo alla romana" = "To go Dutch"

 Invece: "I'm Duch if..." è una cosa diversa.


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## lsp

mateintwo said:


> ...Che ne dite? Fa Ha senso?


Common error, but worth correcting. 
As explained by a respected member and friend...





			
				Alfry said:
			
		

> Il problema è che se dici "Questa cosa mi fa senso" è come se dicessi "questa cosa mi disgusta, provoca in me un senso di disgusto".
> 
> I appreciate that for you, an English speaker, "mi fa senso" makes more sense than "ha senso".


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## lsp

mgc said:


> If you go out to a restaurant you can say: *I'm Dutch if you are.
> *Meaning I'll pay my bill if you will. Facciamo alla romana.



I'm not sure _where_ you are suggesting that would be said, but I have to point out that in AE, that is _not_ a natural construction, or use of the expression "going Dutch."


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## Mark Valsi

TGC,

I THINK YOU ARE INCORRECT !!
This would never be said by American English speakers

_If you go out to a restaurant you can say: I'm Dutch if you are. 
 Meaning I'll pay my bill if you will. Facciamo alla romana._

What you would say is, "Let's go Dutch."


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## mateintwo

lsp said:


> I'm not sure _where_ you are suggesting that would be said, but I have to point out that in AE, that is _not_ a natural construction, or use of the expression "going Dutch."


 
The problem is not that I or mgc are trying to come up with variations on “going Dutch” to find an application how “I am Dutch if” could be used (although agreed not the common way of saying it) but that TEZ-JA claims it means something else in English which unfortunately no English speaking person seems to know.


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## Poianone

Could it be that in the phrase there has been missed _in? _I found that "in Dutch" means "in trouble or disfavor".

EDIT: on Merriam-Webster On-line dictionary there are these entries for dutch, hope it helps!


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## mateintwo

Must admit I never heard about the expression *in Dutch* but I also found it on other online dictionaries as meaning in trouble or in disfavor so I think you must be right the original phrase omitted the *in.*


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## lsp

mateintwo said:


> The problem is not that I or mgc are trying to come up with variations on “going Dutch” ...




I didn't write that post for your or mgc's benefit, but for the people who read posts to learn new expressions. I felt (and apparently Mark Valsi felt similarly) it needed to be pointed out that the usage in that post was not correct.

I have also heard of "in Dutch," good call, Poianone!


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## mateintwo

Isp: Your answer to mgc was controlled in tone and not at all like Mark Valsi who did the equivalent of screaming (capital letters and !). I certainly knew it is not a normal way to say go Dutch but since the expression is common one can take liberties and say it differently in order to be witty. Only a “language drilling sergeant” (and I’m not referring to you) could be so rigid to say a phrase must be said in one way only. Mcg who is non-English seemed to understand my post with guess/assumption that is could be a play on going Dutch. Of course when we posted no credible alternatives had been presented but we now finally seem to agree *in* was missing n the original phrase.


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## lsp

mateintwo said:


> *L*sp: Your answer to mgc was controlled in tone and not at all like Mark Valsi who did the equivalent of screaming (capital letters and !). I certainly knew it is not a normal way to say go Dutch but since the expression is common one can take liberties and say it differently in order to be witty. Only a “language drilling *drill *sergeant” (and I’m not referring to you) could be so rigid to say a phrase must be said in one way only. Mcg who is non-English seemed to understand my post with guess/assumption that is could be a play on going Dutch. Of course when we posted no credible alternatives had been presented but we now finally seem to agree *in* was missing n the original phrase.


(ah well "easy come, easy go" with the compliment...) I guess I'm a language drill sergeant after all. Ripeto, non intendevo il mio post né per te né per mgc. Ma quando due o tre parole diventano una frase fatta, sì che c'è un solo modo giusto per dirle e farsi capire (come *drill* sergeant )


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## Panpan

The phrase '...or I'm a Dutchman' (meaning x is true, and if it is not true then I am something I am not), comes (I think) from a George Elliot novel, I think it is 'The Mill on the Floss'.

(I've now done a Search - it was Mill on the Floss. The phrase seems to be still fairly well used judging from search results).

This phrase was in fairly common use, and then was partly replaced by '.... or I'm a Chinaman'.

I would understand 'I'm Dutch if...' as meaning the same as '...or I'm a Dutchman' (just phrased in reverse), and in my opinion, it probably has nothing to do with 'going Dutch'.

Panpan


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## lsp

Panpan said:


> (...still fairly well used judgiing from search results).


Hate to be picayune, but I scanned the first few pages. Some are about actually being Dutch, some were about another expression (a Dutchman's uncle) and some were querying it - but not actually using it in context. My advice to those studying English, especially colloquilaisms: I'd steer clear!


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## mateintwo

lsp said:


> (c'è un solo modo giusto per dirle e farsi capire (come *drill* sergeant )


 
We risk soon being in Dutch with the moderators if we continue off-topic discussions. I elected the word drilling to emphasize the act of drilling (perverse enjoyment while doing it) but again here is a case of not using the most common form (and according to you always the wrong way). I guess we are at odds what liberties you are allowed when forming phrases in English. But what us worry?


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## Alxmrphi

There's only been one Brit to answer this question, and I am not 100% of the meaning, though I know it's not "going Dutch", also badly phrased, but I assume it to be British, seeing as we're so close to the Netherlands, but anyway, examples:

"If she is over 65 then I'm a Dutch"
"If you payed under 5K for that car then I'm Dutch"

In a sense of, "that isn't possible, otherwise I'm Dutch", like a bet, but not a bet, because you won't suddenly turn Dutch lol.

A few UK phrases use Dutch lol, I bet it'd confuse the Americans.


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## Panpan

lsp said:


> I'd steer clear!


 
I'm not suggesting non-native speakers should use the phrases, they are really only worth knowing for comprehension.

By the way: the Oxford Concise Dictionary, 8th edn 1992 reprint has:

'I'm a Dutchman'.  expression of disbelief or refusal.

Which settles it.  Or I'm a Chinaman (which I could be, with a name like Panpan - it's the diminutive form of 'tiger' in Mandarin i.e. 'little tiger', but actually that's just co-incidence.  It's also a marine distress signal).

Panpan


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## se16teddy

I agree with Panpan.  I don't know the expression 'I'm Dutch if...', but I am familiar with the expression 'If (proposition) then I'm a Dutchman' (spoken by someone who is not a Dutchman, meaning that the proposition is untrue). This site http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/funny_old_game/1496657.stm includes the sentence 'If England qualify for the World Cup, let alone do well, then I'm a Dutchman!'


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## awanzi

I heard that when somebody speaks in an uncomprehensible way (or a difficult language) they say: That's Dutch (or something).
(Like we say "é arabo")

Is that true?


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## se16teddy

awanzi said:


> I heard that when somebody speaks in an uncomprehensible way (or a difficult language) they say: That's Dutch (or something).
> (Like we say "é arabo")
> 
> Is that true?


I think you're referring to double Dutch.  http://www.wordreference.com/definition/double dutch


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## awanzi

se16teddy said:


> I think you're referring to double Dutch. http://www.wordreference.com/definition/double dutch


 
Is it ok than to say "That's really double Dutch!"?
Meaning "I hardly understand it!"


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## se16teddy

awanzi said:


> Is it ok than to say "That's really double Dutch!"?
> Meaning "I hardly understand it!"


Yes, it is.  Maybe 'That really _is _double Dutch' would be a slightly more idiomatic emphasis.


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## GavinW

se16teddy said:


> Yes, it is. Maybe 'That really _is _double Dutch' would be a slightly more idiomatic emphasis.


 
Or: "He said something that sounded like double Dutch".


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## Suehil

I think the original expression is, "... or I'm a Dutchman"  e.g. 'It will rain tomorrow or I'm a Dutchman', meaning that you think it is certain.  That one is fairly common, if a bit antiquated.


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## cscarfo

Probably it is a just a way to mean that the first sentence is unreal or the fact cannot happen.
In Italy it is common to say: "Se tu sei un buon automobilista, allora io sono Napoleone!!!" (or Einstein, or whoever).
Ciao


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## Tez_ja

cscarfo said:


> In Italy it is common to say: "Se tu sei un buon automobilista, allora io sono Napoleone!!!" (or Einstein, or whoever).


 
 Penso, che Tu abbia ragione.


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## awanzi

cscarfo said:


> Probably it is a just a way to mean that the first sentence is unreal or the fact cannot happen.
> In Italy it is common to say: "Se tu sei un buon automobilista, allora io sono Napoleone!!!" (or Einstein, or whoever).
> Ciao



Purtroppo dalle mie parti usa una frase un pò meno elegante, ma che serve comunque a smentire la prima parte: "Se tu sei un buon automobilista, Cicciolina è vergine"...


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