# Hun



## Alxmrphi

I was quite astounded when someone told me they thought "hun" was a derogatory word, as being in the North-West of England, I hear it all the time, as a very very nice term...

An example, someone at a shopping till who drops something and another person (woman always) would say "Here you go, hun" and pick it up for you.

Walking into a hairdresser and first thing that they'd say would be "Come on hun". Generally, a word that shows that the person who said it is kind and is being friendly.

Now, as someone pointed out, UrbanDictionary says that it is a really offensive term in Ireland and I had no idea, not sure how common it is or not, maybe Tony can enlighten us on this aspect.

Generally speaking (not sure if this applies to AE, this is mainly directed at speakers of BE) when someone says "hun", do you take it offensively, what is the *first *definition that comes to your mind?


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## JamesM

The only meaning I know for Hun in that context is a term of endearment, short for "honey."   It's not uncommon in certain situations and certain regions of the U.S. to hear it used in exactly the same way as you describe in both commercial and social settings. I think people in the southern U.S. use it more than people in the north, in general, but it's very widespread.


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## Ecossaise

Depends entirely on context. 

In a northern shop - "how are you, hun?" -  no problem, just local idiom; short form of "honey"

In an argument - "well, you are a right Hun" - clearly offensive


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## panjandrum

It's not at all offensive at the top end of The Island, at least, not among the people I know.  I would have written hon, though - it's short for honey, and is a simple term of endearment.

You'll find it in the OED - a colloquial abbreviation of honey, a term of endearment: Sweet one, sweetheart, darling. (Formerly chiefly Irish and, in form _hinnie_, _hinny_, Scottish and Northumbrian. Now also common in N. Amer., whence also in Britain and elsewhere.) 

It may be that this is completely the wrong word, of course, but in the examples you have given, it is only offensive in the same way that some people don't like being called "love" by complete strangers.


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## winklepicker

Alex_Murphy said:


> I was quite astounded when someone told me they thought "hun" was a derogatory word, as being in the North-West of England, I hear it all the time, as a very very nice term...


 
Hi Alex - I think you'll enjoy this previous thread where we discovered that even _lady_ is unacceptable to some people. Men don't seem so picky somehow...


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## TrentinaNE

I agree with Panjandrum.  What is "offensive" (or more likely "irritating") is the use of overly familiar terms by strangers, particularly in a professional setting.  When I went for a medical procedure recently, the female technician addressed me as "dear."  I politely asked her not to do so, and while she seemed a bit taken-aback, she complied.


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## weirdgirl

I think there is another meaning of hun that no one has mentioned so far. It is sometimes used as a derogatory term for refering to Germans - you sometimes see it in English tabloid newspapers during the world cup or when England is competing against Germany in other sports. This use of the word would certainly be considered offensive and probably should be avoided.

Máire


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## Alxmrphi

Besides being overly defensive and taking offense at an obviously nice greeting, generally, or I'd say most of the time (barring the German thing I read about, which I don't think is relavent at all in the present day) it's a nice thing.

Would anyone be offended if they were called "hun" on WR, by the way?


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## winklepicker

weirdgirl said:


> This use of the word would certainly be considered offensive and probably should be avoided.


 
Yes, this goes back to the First World War - and perhaps beyond. Curiously, Capt W E Johns (of Biggles fame) in his reminiscences specificially says that the use of Hun by his fellow RFC pilots was *not *meant derogatorily. It is now, though - and very much best avoided.


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## TrentinaNE

Alex_Murphy said:


> Would anyone be offended if they were called "hun" on WR, by the way?


I would find it very *odd* and somewhat *off-putting* if someone I did not "know" on WRF addressed me as "hun" or "dear" or "lovey" or "sweetie" or any of a myriad of potential terms of endearment. And were the poster a non-native-speaker of English, I would be inclined to point out that such terms are not really appropriate to this setting, and _might_ cause offense -- or at least puzzlement -- in other settings.  

Elisabetta


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## Alxmrphi

That does make sense, I'd be glad to be called hun though, I suppose it's a cultural thing within English speaking places that, well, can puzzle us all.


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## Bridgita

<<... reply to deleted post removed rather than delete the entire post ...>>>

And if someone gets offended by being called "honey" or "dear," in my opinion, they have something stuck where the sun doesn't shine or they are just a grouchy old Ebeneezer.


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## Paulfromitaly

Alex_Murphy said:


> That does make sense, I'd be glad to be called hun though, I suppose it's a cultural thing within English speaking places that, well, can puzzle us all.


 
Alex, would you address a complete stranger who's maybe older than you as "hun" ? 
Perhaps a woman who fancied you would be pleased and take it as a compliment, but I suppose that a fair amount of women would just be hacked off (annoyed), especially if they don't know you at all.

<<... deleting chat - sorry about this - ...>>


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## panjandrum

Thread re-opened for further on-topic discussion.


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## clairanne

hi

I agree that hun is short for honey and is meant as a form of endearment. I do not think "Hun" meaning "German" has been used since the first world war in this country, it was not certainly not common in the second world war and is not a word that I would ever connect with this meaning. Some people always use these sorts of terms when they are speaking to you, especially in shops, and I agree with Bridgita that you would have to be very small minded to really object to this. I get called "dear or "love" regularly and feel quite "old" if someone calls me "madam" in a shop(which unfortunately is happening most of the time these days!!).


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## TrentinaNE

clairanne said:


> Some people always use these sorts of terms when they are speaking to you, especially in shops, and I agree with Bridgita that you would have to be very small minded to really object to this.


What is accepted in one part of the English-speaking world may not be in others or in particular settings.  In the U.S., it's best not to use overly familiarly terms with people you don't know.

Elisabetta


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## Paulfromitaly

clairanne said:


> hi
> 
> I agree that hun is short for honey and is meant as a form of endearment. I do not think "Hun" meaning "German" has been used since the first world war in this country, it was not certainly not common in the second world war and is not a word that I would ever connect with this meaning. Some people always use these sorts of terms when they are speaking to you, especially in shops, and I agree with Bridgita that you would have to be very small minded to really object to this. I get called "dear or "love" regularly and feel quite "old" if someone calls me "madam" in a shop(which unfortunately is happening most of the time these days!!).



Are you sure that if I was hanging around as a tourist in the East Sussex and I stopped you along the street asking some information and introducing myself with a "Hi hun, how you doing?" you wouldn't at least look at me with a puzzled look and reply: "I beg your pardon?".


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## Reina140

TrentinaNE said:


> What is accepted in one part of the English-speaking world may not be in others or in particular settings. In the U.S., it's best not to use overly familiarly terms with people you don't know.
> 
> Elisabetta


 
I live in the US and people talk like that all the time where I live on the East Coast.  I don't find it offensive, but some people are just too uppity and can find any reason to get mad.  I call people "dear" or "sweetie" a lot, whether I know them or not, and no one seems to mind, unless they're hiding rage behind a nice smile.


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## .   1

Context is everything.
"You useless bloody hun" is obviously offensive.  In Australia hun = kraut; a put down for German people.
I have noticed a habit of some retailers to call me sweetie or honey or dear.  I am almost fifty and obviously so and I was initially taken aback but now I quite like it.
These poor buggers have to spend all day pretending to be interested in people trooping into their shop and they have to adopt some strategise to grease the social wheels.
I agree with Bridgita.  People who are offended by such terminology should undertake a very close examinations of their fundamentals.

.,,


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## gaer

TrentinaNE said:


> I would find it very *odd* and somewhat *off-putting* if someone I did not "know" on WRF addressed me as "hun" or "dear" or "lovey" or "sweetie" or any of a myriad of potential terms of endearment. And were the poster a non-native-speaker of English, I would be inclined to point out that such terms are not really appropriate to this setting, and _might_ cause offense -- or at least puzzlement -- in other settings.
> 
> Elisabetta


Let me be more blunt: it always annoys the **** out of me to be addressed as "hun/hon" by someone I don't know.

If a man addresses my wife as "hon", I want to slug him.


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## Pedro y La Torre

The noun hun means a German or a Glasgow Rangers supporter


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## TrentinaNE

Reina140 said:


> some people are just too uppity and can find any reason to get mad. I call people "dear" or "sweetie" a lot, whether I know them or not, and no one seems to mind, unless they're hiding rage behind a nice smile.


 


. said:


> People who are offended by such terminology should undertake a very close examinations of their fundamentals.


Goodness, but that's a lot of presumption and judgment!  Is it really so astonishing that people vary in their level of comfort in being addressed with uninvited familiarity by people they don't know?


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## heidita

weirdgirl said:


> I think there is another meaning of hun that no one has mentioned so far. It is sometimes used as a derogatory term for refering to Germans - you sometimes see it in English tabloid newspapers during the world cup or when England is competing against Germany in other sports. This use of the word would certainly be considered offensive and probably should be avoided.
> 
> Máire


 
I am stunned, Maire! 

The only meaning I know of the word is short for _honey,_ used all the time by Londoners.
Never heard this in connection with Germans at all!! If so, is it also used for women?


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## Paulfromitaly

. said:


> Context is everything.
> 
> I agree with Bridgita.  People who are offended by such terminology should undertake a very close examinations of their fundamentals.
> 
> .,,



I wouldn't be offended if a man in his fifties called me "hun", but I'd be quite surprised and I'd wonder why he did it; I'm  not sure I'd like it either if it was a woman calling me "hun".
It doesn't mean I'd take offence and react badly of course.


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## heidita

TrentinaNE said:


> Goodness, but that's a lot of presumption and judgment! Is it really so astonishing that people vary in their level of comfort in being addressed with uninvited familiarity by people they don't know?


 
I must say I rather agree with you. In Spain this kind of familiarity is expressed by kissing, which makes many foreigners rather uncomfortable. 

I have just seen that hun is mainly used for football events. Is there any other event you would use it for "us",  ?


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## panjandrum

I found this:
*1900* _Times_ 30 July 5/3 According to the Bremen _Weser Zeitung_ the Emperor said [27 July at Bremerhaven]:‘..No quarter will be given, no prisoners will be taken. Let all who fall into your hands be at your mercy. Just as the Huns a thousand years ago, under the leadership of Etzel (Attila) gained a reputation in virtue of which they still live in historical tradition, so may the name of Germany become known in such a manner in China that no Chinaman will ever again even dare to look askance at a German.’

The OED suggests that the use by the British soldiers of the term Hun to mean German originated in that speech. It also makes it clear that this term was not inherently offensive.


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## heidita

By the way, to be called a hun in German (Hüne) is a compliment, as it gives the idea of strength and "bigness".

I should be surprised if a German had taken it as derogatory. I would have taken it as a compliment.


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## gaer

. said:


> Context is everything.
> "You useless bloody hun" is obviously offensive. In Australia hun = kraut; a put down for German people.
> I have noticed a habit of some retailers to call me sweetie or honey or dear. I am almost fifty and obviously so and I was initially taken aback but now I quite like it.
> These poor buggers have to spend all day pretending to be interested in people trooping into their shop and they have to adopt some strategise to grease the social wheels.
> I agree with Bridgita. People who are offended by such terminology should undertake a very close examinations of their fundamentals.
> 
> .,,


What if you were a woman over 50 and addressed as "hun" by a man, younger, who was quite obviously being condescending? What if this younger man were your "boss"?


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## panjandrum

gaer said:


> What if you were a woman over 50 and addressed as "hun" by a man, younger, who was quite obviously being condescending? What if this younger man were your "boss"?


Curiously, this is a possibility with any term of affection or casual endearment - like hon/honey.
Used sincerely it is warm and friendly.
Used improperly it may be considered patronising and offensive.  
Used neutrally it is nothing more than a social convention - quite empty of real meaning, but important just the same.


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## TrentinaNE

panjandrum said:


> Used improperly it may be considered patronising and offensive.


Bingo! And the posts that may have prompted this thread merely pointed out this possibility.  

Elisabetta


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## gaer

TrentinaNE said:


> Bingo! And the posts that may have prompted this thread merely pointed out this possibility.
> 
> Elisabetta


This is exactly what I've been talking about.


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## jdenson

It is quite common in the southern United States, especially in small towns, for women to address both men and women, even perfect strangers, as "hun", "honey", "sweetie", "my dear", etc. It is not so common, but not unknown, for men to do so. Until his death at age ninety-three, a male friend of mine called everyone younger than he, "honey child". Several years ago I dined at an upscale New Orleans restaurant with a female friend in her sixties; usually a stickler for propriety, she found it charming that the waiter, who was perhaps nineteen, addressed her as "m'dear". 
JD


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## Dimcl

gaer said:


> Let me be more blunt: it always annoys the **** out of me to be addressed as "hun/hon" by someone I don't know.
> 
> If a man addresses my wife as "hon", I want to slug him.


 
I second this point of view!  I grew up in the day when my parents' closest friends were "Mr. and Mrs. XYZ" to myself and my siblings and if they were very, very, very close friends, they were, perhaps, "Uncle" and "Aunt".  To have someone (especially a much younger someone) whom I've never met before I sat down at her table in the restaurant, address me as "hon", "sweetie" or "dear" irritates me no end.  I don't believe that my annoyance has anything to do with "examining my fundamentals" and everything to do with circumspection.  To me, the familiarity is unwarrranted and most certainly unwelcome.


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## .   1

gaer said:


> What if you were a woman over 50 and addressed as "hun" by a man, younger, who was quite obviously being condescending? What if this younger man were your "boss"?


I would be either quietly irritated at his lack of manners or I would voice my opinion and be an ex employee.
Morons like that are apt to not thank subordinate employees for perceived insurbordination.

.,,


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## TrentinaNE

If "Pardon me, xxx, but I'd really appreciate your addressing me by my first name" is what gets one fired, then I'd say one has a lawsuit on one's hands.  Heck, people stood up and cheered when Tootsie said this to the soap opera director in 1982.     Lesson: make sure you have supportive witnesses.   

Elisabetta


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## Porteño

If the word had been correctly written in the first place '*hon*', there would have been no confusion. However, on seeing 'hun' my first thought was the offensive term for a German. I disagree with an earlier thread that said that this term was not used during WWII, as far as I remember is was used quite frequently and personally I still use it when I'm talking about 'frogs', 'dagoes' and the like.


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## .   1

TrentinaNE said:


> Lesson: make sure you have supportive witnesses.
> 
> Elisabetta


And that you know the scriptwriter. 
Such cases are rarely worth winning.  You definitely get a lot of grief and maybe a little bit of money and probably get a reputation in your industry as a troublemaker.  In any event I couldn't imagine that you'd be able to continue to work in the same job.

.,,


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## clairanne

Hi

I think I would have to be very careful in Reina's part of the world as I am the sort of person who speaks to anyone and everyone, especially in queues! I would only be insulted if called something rude, never by any term of endearment - I suppose I am just used to friendly people and have no reason to feel threatened.  In the same way I never feel that anyone is superior or inferior to me so do not have the need to be formal or condescending towards any one.  I would usually call an older person "Mrs .." if I knew her name but she can call me whatever she likes - it gives me a warm feeling if some elderly lady calls me" dear" or "duck".


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## clairanne

hi 

_I disagree with an earlier thread that said that this term was not used during WWII, as far as I remember is was used quite frequently and personally I still use it when I'm talking about 'frogs', 'dagoes' and the like._

In my part of the world Germans in WWII were more commonly called "Jerries" or "Krauts" To me "Hun" would sound more "Hungarian" I would have to think to connect it to Germany. 

Withthe ongoing friendly hate between UK and France we still refer to them as "Frogs" I am sure they also have some equally insulting name for us.

If your boss called you Hon or Hun surely it would depend on how well you knew each other and how long you had worked for him - I doubt he would use it unless you were very good friends. We call our boss our " piece of fluff" and he knows and does not mind in the slightest. Of course we would not do so if in a professional setting.


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## winklepicker

. said:


> People who are offended by such terminology should undertake a very close examinations of their fundamentals.


 
I guess you'd need a double mirror for that?


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## Alxmrphi

By the way, for all, men don't say it, It's 99% of the time woman, or if it is said by a man, usually camp/gay.


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## Bridgita

Reina said:
			
		

> I live in the US and people talk like that all the time where I live on the East Coast. I don't find it offensive, but some people are just too uppity and can find any reason to get mad. I call people "dear" or "sweetie" a lot, whether I know them or not, and no one seems to mind, unless they're hiding rage behind a nice smile.


 


			
				clairanne said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> I think I would have to be very careful in Reina's part of the world as I am the sort of person who speaks to anyone and everyone, especially in queues! I would only be insulted if called something rude, never by any term of endearment - I suppose I am just used to friendly people and have no reason to feel threatened. In the same way I never feel that anyone is superior or inferior to me so do not have the need to be formal or condescending towards any one. I would usually call an older person "Mrs .." if I knew her name but she can call me whatever she likes - it gives me a warm feeling if some elderly lady calls me" dear" or "duck".


 

Clairanne I think you are confused. Reina lives in the same world as us with the happy-go-lucky people that don't mind being called "sweetie." It's elsewhere that I would worry!!!


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## AngelEyes

In my opinion, there's enough coldness and apathy going on between people today in the normal scheme of things.

I say, loosen up a little!

If a guy holds the door open for me and says, "There you go, hon." (He can even wink while he says it...I'm not fussy.)

If my girlfriend calls me and says, "Hi hon, what are you doing?"

If a medical technician greets me with a "Hop up on this table, dear."

None of these would bother me in the least.

But it all does boil down to context.

And the standard of propriety would be much higher when it's said by a man, rather than between two women.

Old men can get away with saying it in almost any situation.
Same for when older women say it.

Between strangers in a business setting?
I'd have to be in a really bad mood to take offense at being called, "honey, dear - even sweetie" if it were used in a friendly, non-sexual way between a woman and me.

I almost never use those terms of endearment with anybody, and when I do, it's only with certain special people. That's just not my style, even in private, but I certainly don't mind if someone says them to me!

Comfort levels are different for everyone, though, and should be respected. 

But just as a side note, if that medical technician was the woman who was about to give you your mammogram, I would think twice about saying anything that might wipe that smile off her face and put her in a bad mood. 

Result:
You: "Ouch."
Her: "Oh, sorry_, ma'am_."


*AngelEyes*


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## panjandrum

As this thread has again wandered off the linguistic topic - this time to discuss the social consequences of using terms of endearment in inappropriate contexts, it has been closed.
Again.


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