# Etymology of Kureyş family



## ancalimon

The Kureyş family is the family of Hz. Muhammad the prophet of Islam. The first person to learn Arabic in this family is Hz. İsmail and their ancestor Hz.İbrahim married a Turkic princess named Kantura. I have read in several places that the name is Sumerian.  Some say that the name means "dog fish" but I don't find it believable.

Some say that Christ is also from this Kureyş family and the name Christ is just another version of this name? Could the word "Guru" be related with this name if that family was originally from around India?

If the Indian word and the Turkic "kuru" are related in any way, the Turkic word means "mature, perfect, sated, ripe, very knowledgeable" and also "dry". The opposite of this word is "yaş" meaning "not mature, unseasoned, undereducated" and also "wet".


----------



## berndf

ancalimon said:


> Some say that Christ is also from this Kureyş family and the name Christ is just another version of this name?


This claim is so ridiculous it isn't worth commenting. If those are the same kind of people who claim قريش to be Sumerian you can safely ignore it.


----------



## mataripis

The term " Guru" has version in Tagalog "Guro' " meaning Teacher and in Aramaic it has the equivalent term " Rabbi".


----------



## aruniyan

mataripis said:


> The term " Guru" has version in Tagalog "Guro' " meaning Teacher and in Aramaic it has the equivalent term " Rabbi".




The term Guru in Sanskrit and also in other Indian languages... Its normally referred to a teacher... Kuru literally has ... 

*Ku/Gu/Hu/Cu*- Gain inside : Gain from Inside,  Container like., Curve...

*Ru* - Take from inside,  ru- Take to Inside.

so *Guru* should be like a "container to take from Inside" referring the teacher.


not sure about the Kureyş relation.


----------



## Kevin Beach

ancalimon said:


> ...
> 
> Some say that Christ is also from this Kureyş family and the name Christ is just another version of this name? Could the word "Guru" be related with this name if that family was originally from around India?
> 
> ...


The name "Christ" comes from the Greek Χριστός (Khristós) meaning "the anointed one". This word was used in the Greek (Koine) New Testament to translate the Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ (Māšîaḥ), which is translated into English as "the Messiah". In both cases, the name means "the anointed one", meaning that the individual is anointed by God to perform hos work. It was a "new" name, deliberately used to specify Jesus of Nazareth un the earliest Christian times.

Unless "Kureyş" was derived from Χριστός, there is no connection whatsoever between them.


----------



## ancalimon

berndf said:


> This claim is so ridiculous it isn't worth commenting. If those are the same kind of people who claim قريش to be Sumerian you can safely ignore it.



I don't know about the name. But there is a great possibility that he was from this family.
Mary is the daughter of David. David is the second kind of Judaic people.
Abraham has two wifes named Sara and Hacer. He has two sons from these wifes named Ishak and Ismail. Ishak is considered the ancestor of Jews and Ismail is considered the ancestor of Muslims.

This information leads to Christ and Muhammed being relatives and their family some kind of family of prophets.


----------



## Kevin Beach

ancalimon said:


> I don't know about the name. But there is a great possibility that he was from this family.
> Mary is the daughter of David. David is the second kind of Judaic people.
> Abraham has two wifes named Sara and Hacer. He has two sons from these wifes named Ishak and Ismail. Ishak is considered the ancestor of Jews and Ismail is considered the ancestor of Muslims.
> 
> This information leads to Christ and Muhammed being relatives and their family some kind of family of prophets.



Based on your logic, all Jews and all Muslims (except converts to either religion) are genetically descended from Abraham and therefore constitute two races of prophets. That is clearly not so.

I don't know what conclusion you are trying to reach, but you won't get to it through this route.

See my earlier post on the origin of the name "Christ".


----------



## berndf

ancalimon said:


> I don't know about the name.


_Christ _is *not* a name. The name is _Jesus_._ Jesus Christus_ means _Jesus, the messiah_. Speaking of _Christ _as a "name" would be as if I would say the "name" of the founder of Islam were _Hazreti_ because you call him _Hazreti Muhammed_ in Turkish.


----------



## Perseas

My addendum:

There is also the Greek "κύριος" (=master/lord/gentleman), which is cognate with the Sanskrit "sura" and the Welsh "cawr". IE root *keu- means "swell". I' m not sure though for any relationship with "Kureyş" from the title.


----------



## origumi

ancalimon said:


> I don't know about the name. But there is a great possibility that he was from this family.
> Mary is the daughter of David. David is the second kind of Judaic people.
> Abraham has two wifes named Sara and Hacer. He has two sons from these wifes named Ishak and Ismail. Ishak is considered the ancestor of Jews and Ismail is considered the ancestor of Muslims.
> 
> This information leads to Christ and Muhammed being relatives and their family some kind of family of prophets.


Taking the Hebrew Bible narrative as a linguistic source is risky. Adding the Quranic tradition makes it even more far-fetched. Biblical Abraham came from Aramaic environment of 2000 BC or later. At this time the Aramaic-Canaanite branch had already split from the Arabic branch (that's the accepted historical - linguistic opinion). There's no need to get into theological discussion (that is, theology vs. modern history view), just to remember that Sarah, Hagar, Isaac, Ishmael as described in the Bible(s) are very relevant to the believer but not as much to cross-language (including names) understanding.


----------



## rayloom

The exact origin of the tribe's name "Quraysh" is quite disputed. The Lisan lists 4 opinions regarding its origin.
Anyhow, the form itself is of the simple diminutive fu3ayl, which accounts for the -u- vowel, and the /y/ consonant you see there. So it's not a compound word or anything of the sorts. Not related to Turkic kuru nor Indian guru nor Turkish yaş.
Also not related to Greek Χριστός, itself a translation of Hebrew מָשִׁיחַ  "the annointed one".


----------



## Barsac

Ancalimon said:
			
		

> I don't know about the name. But there is a great possibility that he was from this family.
> Mary is the daughter of David. David is the second kind of Judaic people.
> Abraham has two wifes named Sara and Hacer. He has two sons from these wifes named Ishak and Ismail. Ishak is considered the ancestor of Jews and Ismail is considered the ancestor of Muslims.
> 
> This information leads to Christ and Muhammed being relatives and their family some kind of family of prophets.


The Qur'an contains a reference to a Miriam (Mary) sister of Moses and Aaron, and daughter of Imran. There is a confusion between this Miriam, and the other Miriam, mother of Isa (Jesus). 
Qur'an 19.27-28 :
27. Then she brought him (Jesus) to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
28. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.

Miriam was the sister of Moses and Aaron, and the daughter of Amram and Jochebed. She appears first in the Book of Exodus in the Hebrew Bible. She is also mentioned in the Book of Numbers


----------



## ancalimon

berndf said:


> This claim is so ridiculous it isn't worth commenting. If those are the same kind of people who claim قريش to be Sumerian you can safely ignore it.



We know that it's not Arabic (because this family initially did not even know Arabic). So to which language "could" this belong to?  They are a family that became Arabic later.  They migrated from around Mesopotamia didn't they?

I'm especially suspicious about an Indian origin because the prayer of Muslims (Salah) is a different version of Surya Namasta.


----------



## clevermizo

ancalimon said:


> We know that it's not Arabic (because this family initially did not even know Arabic). So to which language "could" this belong to?  They are a family that became Arabic later.  They migrated from around Mesopotamia didn't they?
> 
> I'm especially suspicious about an Indian origin because the prayer of Muslims (Salah) is a different version of Surya Namasta.



Quraysh was an Arabic tribe, so why would they not know Arabic or some ancestral form of it?


----------



## ancalimon

clevermizo said:


> Quraysh was an Arabic tribe, so why would they not know Arabic or some ancestral form of it?



Kureyş is an "Arab-ı musta‘ribe". From what I was told from someone knowing all these things, it means "people that were not Arabs in the past, but who became Arabs later". Like I told you before the first person to learn Arabic from this tribe is "Ismail"

The Arabs are called "Arab-ı ‘âribe" (that's what I've been told) meaning "Arab in origin?"

All these would mean prophet Hz. Muhammed is an Arab but his ancestors are not.


----------



## berndf

ancalimon said:


> Like I told you before the first person to learn Arabic from this tribe is "Ismail"...


Attributing a mythological ancestry to important people has been commonplace in many cultures. I would be very reluctant to take this as a historical fact. By the way, I'd put the story of Jesus' mother belonging to the_ Malkhut Beit David_ into the same category.

And even if this were so it wouldn't mean that the tribal name is of non-Arabic origin. I could very well be an adopted name.


----------



## WadiH

ancalimon said:


> Kureyş is an "Arab-ı musta‘ribe". From what I was told from someone knowing all these things, it means "people that were not Arabs in the past, but who became Arabs later". Like I told you before the first person to learn Arabic from this tribe is "Ismail"
> 
> The Arabs are called "Arab-ı ‘âribe" (that's what I've been told) meaning "Arab in origin?"
> 
> All these would mean prophet Hz. Muhammed is an Arab but his ancestors are not.



This is all Umayyad-era mythology rooted in regional conflicts between northern and southern Arabia.  It has no relation to actual history.  If any tribes can be called "Arabized" historically, it would be some of the tribes that lived in present-day Yemen, not the Arabs of Hejaz to whom Muhammad belonged.


----------



## Abu Rashid

Barsac said:


> The Qur'an contains a reference to a Miriam (Mary) sister of Moses and Aaron, and daughter of Imran. There is a confusion between this Miriam, and the other Miriam, mother of Isa (Jesus).
> Qur'an 19.27-28 :
> 27. Then she brought him (Jesus) to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
> 28. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
> 
> Miriam was the sister of Moses and Aaron, and the daughter of Amram and Jochebed. She appears first in the Book of Exodus in the Hebrew Bible. She is also mentioned in the Book of Numbers



There is no confusion there. Maryam was the mother of Jesus (pbut), whether she had a brother called Harun, or whether the "ukht harun" statement was merely to call to account her noble ancestry is another point, but there's clearly no confusion there about who it is referring to.


----------



## origumi

Barsac said:


> The Qur'an contains a reference to a Miriam (Mary) sister of Moses and Aaron, and daughter of Imran. There is a confusion between this Miriam, and the other Miriam, mother of Isa (Jesus).
> Qur'an 19.27-28 :
> 27. Then she brought him (Jesus) to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing.
> 28. O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot.
> 
> Miriam was the sister of Moses and Aaron, and the daughter of Amram and Jochebed. She appears first in the Book of Exodus in the Hebrew Bible. She is also mentioned in the Book of Numbers


This is an old dispute, already answered in a hadith:


> When I came to Najran, they (the Christians of Najran) asked me: You read "O sister of Harun" (i.e. Maryam) in the Qur'an, whereas Moses was born much before Jesus. When I came back to Allah's Messenger(P) I asked him about that, whereupon he said: The (people of the old age) used to give names (to their persons) after the names of Apostle and pious persons who had gone before them.


----------

