# Non ti meravigliare se



## Alsome

Ciao a tutti.
Vorrei sapere con esattezza come tradurre in inglese il verbo "meravigliarsi" nel seguente contesto:" Non ti meravigliare se Luigi lavora come operaio in quella fabbrica
di laterizi pure essendo laureato, oggi come oggi tutto è possibile".
 Intanto tento io stesso di tradurre: " Don't be surprised if Luigi works as a workman in that building material factory, although he is graduated, all is possible nowerdays". Ringrazio per la risposta.


----------



## gerardo94

forse andrebbe bene anche "don't be astounded"


----------



## AlabamaBoy

"Don't be surprised" is more natural sounding to my ear. Check the spelling of "nowerdays."


----------



## Einstein

And be careful with "graduat*ed*". You can say "he is a graduat*e*" or "he has a degree".

"Graduat*ed*" means _graduato_, like a graduated cylinder in a chemical laboratory.


----------



## AlabamaBoy

You could say "although he graduated from college..." if you don't mind sounding American.


----------



## Einstein

AlabamaBoy said:


> You could say "although he graduated from college..." if you don't mind sounding American.


No, I think that's fine in BrE too, it's "_is graduated_" that sounds wrong.


----------



## You little ripper!

_Don't be surprised if Luigi ends up working in_ ................ might also sound a little better.


----------



## Alsome

Ringrazio tutti. Ho imparato molto.


----------



## Bluenoric

You little ripper! said:


> _Don't be surprised if Luigi ends up working in_ ................ might also sound a little better.


Unfortunately you cannot use it here, since from the OT is clear that Luigi is already working in that factory.


----------



## bibiga

Bluenoric said:


> Unfortunately you cannot use it here, since from the OT is clear that Luigi is already working in that factory.



..if Luigi has ended up working.."


----------



## You little ripper!

Bluenoric said:


> Unfortunately you cannot use it here, since from the OT is clear that Luigi is already working in that factory.


Is it?  Why did Alsome say this, then?:



Alsome said:


> all is possible nowerdays


----------



## Bluenoric

"Oggi come oggi tutto è possibile", _these days, everything is possible_,  refers to the present.


----------



## You little ripper!

Bluenoric said:


> "Oggi come oggi tutto è possibile", _these days, everything is possible_,  refers to the present.


How did you establish from that sentence that he is already working in the factory?


----------



## Bluenoric

_Luigi lavora come operaio _the present tense does the trick.


----------



## You little ripper!

Bluenoric said:


> _Luigi lavora come operaio _the present tense does the trick.



I must be missing something here. What about the "Non ti meravigliare se ........" part of that sentence?



Alsome said:


> Non ti meravigliare se Luigi lavora come operaio in quella fabbrica


----------



## Bluenoric

Maybe a little rephrasing might help: _
Luigi lavora come operaio: non stupirti, tutto è possibile oggigiorno._


----------



## You little ripper!

Bluenoric said:


> Maybe a little rephrasing might help:
> _Luigi lavora come operaio: non stupirti, tutto è possibile oggigiorno._


No, it doesn't help, Bluenoric. I still don't understand the _Non ti meravigliare se ......._ in that sentence. I would translate that as _Don't be surprised if ....... ._ It doesn't tell me he's actually working in the factory.


----------



## Bluenoric

_Non ti meravigliare se... _means _Non ti meravigliare del fatto che..._
You and I are walking along a factory fence and all of a sudden you say "I just saw someone who looks like our Luigi pushing a wheelbarrow full of bricks! That's impossible! He just graduated from Harvard!" At that I can reply with the OT sentence "Non ti meravigliare se Luigi lavora come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pure essendo laureato, oggi come oggi tutto è possibile".


----------



## Einstein

This idomatic use of "se" is confusing for English-speakers because it means "that", not "if". It's like "Scusami se ti ho disturbato". It's clear that I have disturbed you and I am apologising. It doesn't mean, "Perhaps I have disturbed you and in that case I'm sorry".

So in the English translation I'd say "Don't be surprised that Luigi works etc."


----------



## You little ripper!

Einstein said:


> This idomatic use of "se" is confusing for English-speakers because it means "that", not "if". It's like "Scusami se ti ho disturbato". It's clear that I have disturbed you and I am apologising. It doesn't mean, "Perhaps I have disturbed you and in that case I'm sorry".
> 
> So in the English translation I'd say "Don't be surprised that Luigi works etc."


I know that idiomatic use, Einstein.  Does the Italian sentence _Non ti meravigliare se Luigi lavora come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pure essendo laureato, oggi come oggi tutto è possibile _mean to you that he is already working there? I can't understand why Alsome translated the Italian sentence "Don't be surprised if Luigi works as a workman in that building material factory, although he is graduated, all is possible nowerdays".


----------



## Tellure

Il problema è nella frase in italiano, secondo me. Capisco YLR. Più propriamente, infatti, si dovrebbe dire "Non c'è da meravigliarsi che Luigi lavori come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pur essendo laureato...". In modo più colloquiale, si può tranquillamente dire anche nel modo proposto da Alsome. Ma inizio ad avere dubbi sulla mia stessa lingua.


----------



## Bluenoric

@youlittleripper! there is no way this sentence can be understood in any other way other that with Luigi already working at the factory.


----------



## You little ripper!

Tellure said:


> "Non c'è da meravigliarsi che Luigi lavori come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pur essendo laureato..."


Thank you, Tellure. That sentence makes sense to me.


----------



## Tellure

You little ripper! said:


> Thank you, Tellure. That sentence makes sense to me.


----------



## AlabamaBoy

Tellure said:


> "Non c'è da meravigliarsi che Luigi lavori come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pur essendo laureato..."


 _You shouldn't be surprised that, although he graduated from college, Luigi is a laborer in this construction materials factory. These days just about anything can happen._


----------



## Einstein

You little ripper! said:


> Does the Italian sentence _Non ti meravigliare se Luigi lavora come operaio in quella fabbrica di laterizi pure essendo laureato, oggi come oggi tutto è possibile _mean to you that he is already working there?


I think the others have answered, but I'm thinking about what the Italian sentence would be if we really meant "if". Probably we'd have to change the tense: "Non ci sarebbe da meravigliarsi se Luigi lavorasse..." or "se si scoprisse che Luigi lavora...".
Italians, correct me please!


----------



## You little ripper!

AlabamaBoy said:


> _You shouldn't be surprised that, although he graduated from college, Luigi is a laborer in this construction materials factory. These days just about anything can happen._





Einstein said:


> I think the others have answered, but I'm thinking about what the Italian sentence would be if we really meant "if". Probably we'd have to change the tense: "Non ci sarebbe da meravigliarsi se Luigi lavorasse..." or "se si scoprisse che Luigi lavora...".
> Italians, correct me please!


Thank you, AB and Einstein. That makes the difference a lot clearer to me.


----------



## Tellure

Einstein said:


> I think the others have answered, but I'm thinking about what the Italian sentence would be if we really meant "if". Probably we'd have to change the tense: "Non ci sarebbe da meravigliarsi se Luigi lavorasse..." *(in alternativa: se andasse a lavorare)* or "se si scoprisse che Luigi lavora...".
> Italians, correct me please!


Sono d'accordo.


----------



## Alsome

Francamente non vedo nulla di strano se dico ciò che ho detto. In effetti immagino che due persone parlano di Luigi e uno dice che ha saputo che Luigi lavora in quella fabbrica. Ovviamente ci sta lavorando. 
Usando l'imperfetto del congiuntivo" se lavorasse" vorrei dire, invece, che è quasi improbabile che ci lavori.Grazie a tutti voi che avete risposto.


----------



## King Crimson

Einstein said:


> I think the others have answered, but I'm thinking about what the Italian sentence would be if we really meant "if". Probably we'd have to change the tense: "Non ci sarebbe da meravigliarsi se Luigi lavorasse..." or "se si scoprisse che Luigi lavora...".
> Italians, correct me please!



Yes, this is one way (see my comment below) I'd rephrase it, should we really mean "if".



Alsome said:


> Francamente non vedo nulla di strano se dico ciò che ho detto. In effetti immagino che due persone parlano di Luigi e uno dice che ha saputo che Luigi lavora in quella fabbrica. Ovviamente ci sta lavorando.
> Usando l'imperfetto del congiuntivo" se lavorasse" vorrei dire, invece, che è quasi improbabile che ci lavori.Grazie a tutti voi che avete risposto.



Sono d'accordo, per un madrelingua secondo me è l'unico significato possibile.

Tips for non-native speakers: as others have already pointed out the clue that points to the right interpretation of the OP is the use of the present tense (Luigi *lavora*), which indicates that Luigi is already working there - it's a fact, not a possibility.
Conversely, if we really meant "if" we could use either the _congiuntivo_ _imperfetto _- as suggested by Einstein - or the _indicativo futuro_, such as in _Non ci sarebbe da meravigliarsi se Luigi un giorno *lavorerà*_... In either case we don't know whether Luigi is going to work at the factory, we're just saying that, should this happen, we shouldn't be surprised.


----------



## You little ripper!

King Crimson said:


> Tips for non-native speakers: as others have already pointed out the clue that points to the right interpretation of the OP is the use of the present tense (Luigi *lavora*), which indicates that Luigi is already working there - it's a fact, not a possibility.


Thanks for the making it even clearer, KC. What confused me what the 'if' in the attempted translation by the OP.


----------



## Alsome

Einstein ha ragione. Nel periodo ipotetico( detto dell'impossibilità o improbabilità ), l'imperfetto del congiuntivo va col condizionale presente. Es:"Se domani mi svegliassi molto presto, andrei a giocare a tennis". Un saluto a tutti.


----------

