# Hindi/Urdu: to lose (khona, ganvaana, etc)



## amiramir

Hi,

I'd be grateful if any one could explain the various ways to express "to lose" in bol-chaal ki Hindi-Urdu.

By way of example, I came across the following sentence:

Samay ko barbaad karte hain, to aap jeevan ka ek hissa ganvaa dete hain.

a) Would 'khote hain' sound ok in that instance?
b) Or kho dete hain? 
c) Or gavaate hain?
d) How does the helping verb dena change the meaning in this context

Lastly, in day to day life, if I've lost my keys-- would I just use khona? kho dena? kho lena? (Main ne apni chaabiya khoyi hain?)

Thank you!

A


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## Kahaani

I'm not a native speaker so I'm not qualified to answer a through c, in my opinion. But regarding d, _denaa_ could sometimes be translate as 'to let'/'to allow'.

_Mujhe jaane do _= 'To me going give' = Allow me to leave/let me go

I think that _denaa _does carry the meaning of 'to let/allow' in this sentence and thus changes the context. 'By wasting time, you allow a part of your life to be lost'.

Correct me if I'm wrong, please.

Edit:

I've lost my keys = _meri chaabi kho gayi hai

_I don't believe there's a need for plural with 'key' as there is in English.


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## amiramir

Thanks, Kahaani. The dena here is not about 'allowing' -- to allow someone to lose would be khone dena. 

This dena is more like a helping verb in the same vein has: kar dena, kar lena, kha lena, etc. -- i.e. adding a nuance about whom the action benefited

Good point about the keys and possible lack of plural in Hindi. Will wait for someone else to weigh in.

Thanks


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## Kahaani

That is true for imperative tenses.


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## amiramir

It's not at all limited to the imperative mood. Main ne sab kucch kha liya, chhitti bhej di gayi hai, etc.


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## eskandar

Kahaani said:


> I've lost my keys = _meri chaabi kho gayi hai_


I'm not a native speaker either, but this is how I would translate it, too. I am wondering if there is another way to word it that implies agency ("I've lost my keys" = I did something that caused my keys to be lost) more than how we currently have it (_meri chaabi kho gayi hai_= "my keys have become lost").


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## Kahaani

Perhaps _maiN ne apnii chaabii kho dii hai_?


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## Cilquiestsuens

eskandar said:


> I'm not a native speaker either, but this is how I would translate it, too. I am wondering if there is another way to word it that implies agency ("I've lost my keys" = I did something that caused my keys to be lost) more than how we currently have it (_meri chaabi kho gayi hai_= "my keys have become lost").



I'd rather say in _rozmarrah ki zubaan_.
_* 
meri chaabii gum ho ga'ii hai*_.

Or, if I am ready to assume some kind of responsibility (after all, these are _my_ keys!)

*main ne chaabii gum kar dii hai*; or:

*chaabii mere (mujh) se gum ho ga'ii hai*.


I think the following two statements seem to belong to a slightly higher register:

_*main ne chaabii kho dii hai

main chaabii kho baiThaa


*_NOTE: It is *chaabii* in Urdu, but in Hindi the word is normally spelt *chaabhii
*


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## mundiya

Cilquiestsuens said:


> NOTE: It is *chaabii* in Urdu, but in Hindi the word is normally spelt *chaabhii
> *



No, that's not true.  Both spellings are used in Hindi, but *chaabii *is more common.


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## amiramir

Thanks, mundiyaji, for chiming in. 

Any thoughts on the original question. There were quite a few non-native opinions, and I thought we could all benefit from a native's commentary. Thank you.


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## mundiya

amiramir said:


> Thanks, mundiyaji, for chiming in.
> 
> Any thoughts on the original question. There were quite a few non-native opinions, and I thought we could all benefit from a native's commentary. Thank you.



Other than the point I noted about "chaabii", I agree with Cilq saahab's suggestions.  Also there is one minor issue in the sentence below:

*chaabii mere (mujh) se gum ho ga'ii hai*.

In Hindi "mujh se" is the standard form.

EDIT: These examples may be helpful to you: khonaa, ga.nvaanaa, gum


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## amiramir

Building off of post #9: is there a difference in register between:

A) Meri chaabi gum ho gayee hai, AND
B) Meri chaabi kho gayee hai
?

And is one more likely in everyday language to use the construction above (which implies agency) or the chaabi mujhse gum ho gayee hai / kho gayee hai?

Thank you.


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## amiramir

If I want to say-- "I get lost every time I try to find his house." Do you say Main kho jaataa huN? or MaiN gum ho jaataa huN or something else? (Or do you work around it-- MaiN raastaa kho ...something"

Thank you.


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## aevynn

amiramir said:


> Building off of post #9: is there a difference in register between:
> 
> A) Meri chaabi gum ho gayee hai, AND
> B) Meri chaabi kho gayee hai
> ?
> 
> And is one more likely in everyday language to use the construction above (which implies agency) or the chaabi mujhse gum ho gayee hai / kho gayee hai?
> 
> Thank you.



I'd probably agree with cilquiestsuens' assessment that the _gum ho gayii hai_ variant is *slightly* more colloquial. And I think it's also more common to use the _gum ho gayii hai_ without the _mujhse_, and it's also more common than something like _maiNne chaabii gum kar dii_. (It kind of makes sense that people might prefer to not blame themselves for things being lost, and the grammar makes it very easy to not blame yourself! )



amiramir said:


> If I want to say-- "I get lost every time I try to find his house." Do you say Main kho jaataa huN? or MaiN gum ho jaataa huN or something else? (Or do you work around it-- MaiN raastaa kho ...something"
> 
> Thank you.



Again, using _gum_ is more colloquial:

_uske ghar jaate hue maiN hameshaa gum ho jaataa huuN. 
maiN jab bhii uske ghar jaataa huuN, raaste meN hameshaa gum ho jaataa huuN_.​
Using _kho jaataa huuN_ sounds grammatical me, just slightly less colloquial.


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## littlepond

amiramir said:


> Hi,
> 
> Samay ko barbaad karte hain, to aap jeevan ka ek hissa ganvaa dete hain.



Note the change in the 1st clause below; for the 2nd clause, it could work with both "denaa" or not, depending on what you want to say ---

Samay ko aap jab barbaad karte hain, to aap jeevan ka ek hissa ganvaa dete/baiThte hain ("end up losing" sense)

Samay ko aap jab barbaad karte hain, to aap jeevan ka ek hissa ganvaate hain. ("you lose" sense: as if some objective fact, as if a describing a mere causal relationship in a science class, it's a given, that is, no element of drama or preaching involved)


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## littlepond

amiramir said:


> Building off of post #9: is there a difference in register between:
> 
> A) Meri chaabi gum ho gayee hai, AND
> B) Meri chaabi kho gayee hai
> ?
> 
> And is one more likely in everyday language to use the construction above (which implies agency) or the chaabi mujhse gum ho gayee hai / kho gayee hai?
> 
> Thank you.



No difference, and both are very colloquial. Some use "kho jaanaa", others "gum ho jaanaa". "gum" gives a slightly more literary feeling, that's all. Interestingly, somehow, when one uses "gum", one omits "merii" more often.


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## littlepond

amiramir said:


> If I want to say-- "I get lost every time I try to find his house." Do you say Main kho jaataa huN? or MaiN gum ho jaataa huN or something else? (Or do you work around it-- MaiN raastaa kho ...something"



All of them are valid and very much used:

"maiN raaste meN kho/bhaTak jaataa hooN" ("bhaTaknaa" literally means "to stray")
"maiN raaste meN gum ho jaataa hooN"
"maiN galiyoN meN kho jaataa hooN, gum ho jaata hooN" (if there are galiyaN, i.e. lanes and by-lanes)
"maiN raastaa kho detaa hooN"
"maiN kho jaataa hooN"
"maiN dishaa bhaTak jaataa hooN"

I wouldn't use however "maiN gum ho jaataa hooN": it's a bit too strong for a person to be "gum" (feels like someone is missing or kidnapped, as in police reports ...). One could use it, and maybe some do, but I wouldn't in this context.


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## amiramir

Thanks for all of the above responses. 

Another related question please. 

In the negative imperative (don't lose, etc.), what's the best way to do this in everyday speech?

I wanted to say-- take care not to lose your gloves. Obviously, since my Hindi's awful, I simplify the sentence to 'don't lose your gloves.'

Apne gloves gum mat/na hone do? 
Gloves naa khona? kho dena?

I also heard on TV the causitive: usse mat khovaao-- which from context, didn't sound semantically causative at all, but maybe I am misinterpreting. It sounded like it meant 'don't miss out on it (the opportunity). So not sure if gloves na khovaao is right.  

Thanks


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## littlepond

"apne glavs mat kho denaa!" (or "gaNvaa baiThnaa")

The other sentence: "dhyaan rakhnaa ki glavs na gumaa do", "... naa gum/kho jaayeN"


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## amiramir

littlepond said:


> "... naa gum/kho jaayeN"




Thank you. Just to confirm, it's naa gum *ho* jaayeN or naa kho jaayeN, correct? Or is the 'ho' not necessary?


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## littlepond

"ho" is optional there.


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