# On the full moon between July 9th and August 9th [interval between dates]



## Casquilho

Salvete fellows!
I'm with some doubts here. I'd like to say, in the most classical way possible, this expression: "On the full moon between July 9th and August 9th". So far I got _luna plena ab septima luce ante Idus Iulias ad quintam ante Idus Augustas_. Is the use of _lux _too much poetical? If so, how could I replace with _dies_ (in what grammatical case, I mean)? Am I right in taking the ablative _luna plena _as an adverbial locution of time? Last but not the least, would it be right if instead of _septima_ and _quintam_ I wrote simply VII and V?


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## wandle

Casquilho said:


> I'd like to say, in the most classical way possible, this expression: "On the full moon between July 9th and August 9th".


I believe that that full moon would fall within July. The plainest way to express it, therefore, would be: 

*Die lunae plenae mensis Iulii*: 'On the day of the full moon in the month of July'.

If the time of day is relevant, say *nocte* (night) instead of *die*.


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## Cagey

Does Wandle's suggestion work?  If it does, it's a good solution. 

Or do you need to name a range? If so, please explain the larger context, so we can be more helpful. 

Perhaps you want to know who to express a range of time, and the full moon is just an example.


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## fdb

wandle said:


> I believe that that full moon would fall within July.



There is no reason to believe that. The new moon can fall on any day of a Julian month. Usually there will be only one full moon in a given month, though occasionally there can be two full moons, one near the beginning, and one near the end of the month (the synodic lunar month is a bit more than 29½ days; the Julian months are mostly 30 or 31 days).


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## wandle

We do not know that it is a Julian month. It is thought the key days of of the Roman month originally represented phases of the moon, the Ides being the full moon. On that basis, a one-month period starting prior to the Ides would include the full moon.

The original post says:


> "On the full moon between July 9th and August 9th".


Strictly speaking, without specifying an actual year, we do not know which stage in the evolution of the Roman calendar was relevant, nor when (by ancient or modern dating) the full moon would have fallen.


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## Casquilho

Thanks for your answers.
Cagey, wandle's suggestion wouldn't always work, because I need to express precisely a full moon which falls inside this interval of 31 days, counted inclusively - much like the Full Moon used for calculating the Christian Easter, between March 22 and April 25.
Here I'm referring to the Julian calendar, wherein Quinctilis and Sextilis were renamed as Iulius and Augustus, though that doesn't make a practical difference, since Quinctilis was a long month of 31 days (Idus in the 15th day) and the Idus of Augustus remained on the 13th anyway.


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## wandle

Casquilho said:


> I need to express precisely a full moon which falls inside this interval of 31 days... I'm referring to the Julian calendar, wherein Quinctilis and Sextilis were renamed as Iulius and Augustus


On that basis, you can say:

*die lunae plenae inter ante diem septimum Nonas Iulias et ante diem quintum Nonas Augustas intercedentis*. 
I.e. 'on the day of the full moon which comes between 9th July and 9th August'.

Note that the actual date expression (shown in blue) is formed in a set pattern of an unusual construction and is treated as an indeclinable unit.

In the abbreviated form, this becomes:

*die lunae plenae inter a.d. vii Non. Iul. et a.d. v Non. Aug. intercedentis*.

Since there can only be one full moon in any month, it is not necessary to express both the beginning and end dates. 
Thus you can say either (a) 'on the day of the full moon preceding 9th August':

*die lunae plenae ante diem quintum Nonas Augustas antecedentis*

*die lunae plenae a.d. v Non. Aug. antecedentis*

or (b) 'on the day of the full moon following 9th July':

*die lunae plenae ante diem septimum Nonas Iulias succedentis*

*die lunae plenae a.d. vii Non. Iul. succedentis*


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## CapnPrep

wandle said:


> Since there can only be one full moon in any month, it is not necessary to express both the beginning and end dates.


As fdb explained, there can be two full moons in an interval of 31 days, so there is a problem inherent in the rule that Casquilho is trying to translate. But it is not a problem of translation. To translate the expression adequately, it is necessary to include both dates.


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## wandle

Clearly *Casquilho's* intention is to denote a particular full moon. 


CapnPrep said:


> As fdb explained, there can be two full moons in an interval of 31 days


Granted that point, it is nevertheless the case that the intended full moon, whichever day it falls on, is either the first full moon after the ninth of July, or the last before the ninth of August.

Hence either of these options may be a correct date; whereas employing both dates may be false.


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