# from 12,525,612 houses (number)



## Ali Ridho

Please correct the Arabic number below

*from 12,525,612 houses*

مِن اِثنَي عَشَرَ وَخَمسِمِائَةِ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفِ وَاثنَي عَشَرَ مِلیُنِ بَیتٍ

thanks


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## Sun-Shine

مِن اثنَيْ عَشَرَ مِليونا وَخَمسِمِائَةٍ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفا وَ  سِتِّمِائَةٍ و اثنَيْ عشر بَيْتا
And I'll ask more about it to make sure.


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## Ali Ridho

Thanks for your reply

مِليونا ? Is this Arabic in Egypt...


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## Sun-Shine

Ali Ridho said:


> مِليونا ? Is this Arabic in Egypt...


In Egypt it's always مليون.

 In fusha it's مليون too.
وفي حالة النصب تصبح مليونا


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## Mahaodeh

Ali Ridho said:


> مِليونا ? Is this Arabic in Egypt...


It's not only in Egypt, the same is used in the Levant, the Gulf, Iraq, Yemen, and Sudan. These I know for sure. I can't be as confident about other Arabic speaking countries but I believe that they use مليون for million also.


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## Sun-Shine

@Mahaodeh
 What do you think about my answer?


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## Mahaodeh

sun_shine 331995 said:


> What do you think about my answer?


I'm going to be frank with you, I avoid giving any input when it comes to numbers because I'm not very good at it. I might be able to manage up to three digits but I wouldn't attempt to correct a number like the one you gave.

Having said that, it seems fine to me.


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## Sun-Shine

All my friends were shocked when they saw this number.
Because I still remember the grammer of numbers I tried and I got to this answer.


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## Mahaodeh

sun_shine 331995 said:


> Because I still remember the grammer of numbers I tried and I got to this answer.


Yes, it is surprising, I barely remember the double digit numbers and make guesses about the three digit ones!


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## analeeh

sun_shine 331995 said:


> مِن اثنَيْ عَشَرَ مِليونا وَخَمسِمِائَةٍ وَخَمسَةٍ وَعِشرِینَ أَلفا وَ  سِتِّمِائَةٍ و اثنَيْ عشر بَيْتا
> And I'll ask more about it to make sure.



Yeah, I think this is right.

No teens decline the ten for anything other than gender (_3ashara _vs _3asharata_), which should be masculine for both _milyōn_ and _bayt_. Twelve declines the number (uniquely among teens) for case. Every individual section connected by _wa-_ should be declined for case somewhere if possible - here for genitive because of _min_. And the case and form of the counted noun is triggered by the closest thing, which for _milyōn, 2alf _and_ bayt _are 12, 20, and 12 (all of which trigger sing. accusative) and for _mi2a_ and _mi2a_ are 5 and 6, which should trigger genitive plural (but _mi2a_ always defaults in these cases to singular). So we get:

_Mina [thn*ay* 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khams*i* mi2atin] wa-[3ishr*īna* 2alfan] wa-[sitt*i* mi2atin] wa-[thn*ay* 3ashara baytan]_

Where the ones in bold are genitive triggered by _min _and the underlined ones are case endings triggered by numbers. Getting rid of _min_ and making it nominative should produce:

من اثنا عشر مليونا وخمس مئة وعشرون الفا وست مئة واثنا عشر بيتا
_[ithn*ā* 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khams*u* mi2atin] wa-[3ishr*ūna* 2alfan] wa-[sitt*u* mi2atin] wa-[thn*ā* 3ashara baytan]_

Or accusative:
_[ithn*ay* 3ashara milyōnan] wa-[khams*a* mi2atin] wa-[3ishr*īna* 2alfan] wa-[sitt*a* mi2atin] wa-[thn*ay* 3ashara baytan]_


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## Sun-Shine




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## Ali Ridho

Thanks all


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## bearded

analeeh said:


> No teens decline the ten for anything other than gender (_3ashara _vs _3asharata_), which should be masculine for both _milyōn_ and _bayt_. Twelve declines the number (uniquely among teens) for case. Every individual section connected by _wa-_ should be declined for case somewhere if possible - here for genitive because of _min_. And the case and form of the counted noun is triggered by the closest thing, which for _milyōn, 2alf _and_ bayt _are 12, 20, and 12 (all of which trigger sing. accusative) and for _mi2a_ and _mi2a_ are 5 and 6, which should trigger genitive plural (but _mi2a_ always defaults in these cases to singular). So we get....


Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?


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## Sun-Shine

bearded said:


> Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?


In fusha, by practice you will pronounce the number correctly without thinking of the grammer.
I do that sometimes, I don't remember the grammar of the number or the vowel of the end of the word but my tongue say it correctly without thinking.


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## bearded

sun_shine 331995 said:


> I do that *sometimes*


 Do you mean 'not always', i.e. there are other times when you don't pronounce the case endings? Would it sound dialectal without the final vowels?


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## Sun-Shine

bearded said:


> Do you mean 'not always', i.e. there are other times when you don't pronounce the case endings? Would it sound dialectal without the final vowels?



In fusha, the right way is to prounounce the final vowel ,however, a lot of people don't do that.
exception: if you stop at the word you don't pronounce the final vowel.


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## bearded

Thank you, sun_shine.


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## Sun-Shine

bearded said:


> Thank you, sun_shine.


I wish you could understand what I mean.
You're welcome.


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## Mahaodeh

bearded said:


> Do you feel that Arabs (when speaking MSA, i.e. on official occasions or when reading a paper) can really/easily/spontaneously keep in mind all that, or would they rather pronounce the long number by simply omitting all case endings?


Personally, I read long numbers as if they were in colloquial (unless they were written in words not numbers) because I know that I would make mistakes so I take the easy way out . I usually manage OK if it was written in words.

I don't know if it's just me, but I would think that some do as I do.


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## bearded

sun_shine 331995 said:


> I wish you could understand what I mean.


I think I can understand very well what you mean, thank you again.
I only asked because the rules for case endings in such a long number as 12525612 look so incredibly complicated, that even a native Arab has to be admired if he is able to pronounce it instinctively correctly ''without thinking''.

PS. Now I have read #19 which confirms my surmise that even natives have sometimes difficulties in this field.


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## Mahaodeh

bearded said:


> PS. Now I have read #19 which confirms my surmise that even natives have sometimes difficulties in this field.



They have difficulties today, but I don't think that native Arabic speakers in the seventh or eighth century had any difficulties .


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## Sun-Shine

Mahaodeh said:


> They have difficulties today, but I don't think that native Arabic speakers in the seventh or eighth century had any difficulties .



The numbers rules is really difficult even for natives. 
Students study grammar at schools. They remember the basics asمبتدأ و خبر ، فاعل وفعل 
About the grammar of numbers and other rules they study them, pass the exams then say goodbye to these rules.
Even I start to forget specially because I'm no longer studying Arabic.


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