# Accents...



## Le Pamplemousse

I was in the car with a friend of mine earlier tonight and I said something in Spanish (I don't remember what).  She (having taken Spanish in high school) remarked that she hates when Americans try to imitate foreign accents.  

"When they hear you, they'll know you're American right away!"

Since I started learning Spanish when I was 13 (I am now 22), I am fairly certain that I will be pegged as an American whether or not I speak with an accent, especially because I have heard many different Spanish accents and mine is sort of a mixture of them.  I had never thought about how natives feel about this.  When a non-native English speaker speaks to me, I certainly don't expect them to speak with an American accent, Though I wouldn't be offended if they tried.  Do you (native Spanish speakers) care if we (non-natives) try to imitate your (or another Spanish) accent?  Do we generally sound ridiculous trying?

Speakers of all languages can chime in on this subject, of course.


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## diegodbs

Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> I was in the car with a friend of mine earlier tonight and I said something in Spanish (I don't remember what). She (having taken Spanish in high school) remarked that she hates when Americans try to imitate foreign accents.
> 
> "When they hear you, they'll know you're American right away!"
> 
> Since I started learning Spanish when I was 13 (I am now 22), I am fairly certain that I will be pegged as an American whether or not I speak with an accent, especially because I have heard many different Spanish accents and mine is sort of a mixture of them. I had never thought about how natives feel about this. When a non-native English speaker speaks to me, I certainly don't expect them to speak with an American accent, Though I wouldn't be offended if they tried. Do you (native Spanish speakers) care if we (non-natives) try to imitate your (or another Spanish) accent? Do we generally sound ridiculous trying?
> 
> Speakers of all languages can chime in on this subject, of course.


 
Mi opinión, muy personal por supuesto, es que para mí es perfectamente natural oír hablar a un mexicano, a un argentino o a un cubano con sus respectivos acentos. Simplemente se nota por las palabras que utiliza y por el acento que no es de España, pero asumes que tiene que ser así y no te extraña.
Si oigo hablar a una persona (inglesa, francesa, japonesa, etc) español con acento de México, Argentina o Cuba, me suena muy extraño y no natural. No sé porqué noto esa diferencia como algo raro y no natural, pero es así. Me pasa exactamente lo mismo si oigo hablar español con acento andaluz a norteamericanos o franceses. No puedo explicar porqué, quizás es la suma de dos acentos (inglés o francés) más (mexicano o cubano) lo que mi oído capta como extraño.
Un saludo.


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## BCN

Hola Pamplemousse, opino igual que diegodbs. Creo que cada uno debe hablar con el acento que tiene, sea cual sea. Nosotros enseguida identificamos la procedencia de un extranjero por su acento, pero eso no significa que suene ridiculo. Creo que es más ridiculo intentar "fingir" un acento correctamente, especialmente me refiero a un compañero mío que intenta hablar americano con un acento español horrible, eso sí que suena fatal. No creo que tenga nada malo que nuestro (o vuestro acento) suene a extranjero.


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## Mei

Hola,

No me molesta en absoluto y no me parece rídiculo, al contrario, animo a todos a que hablen más en el idioma que están estudiando y si lo hacen con un nativo, mucho mejor! 

Es normal que quien quiera aprender un idioma lo quiera hablar lo más parecido a un nativo... me pasa lo mismo con el inglés, más que nada porque me he encontrado alguna vez que, o hablas exactamente igual que un nativo o no hacen el esfuerzo de entenderte.... (no todos claro, pero me he encontrado a alguno que sí) estaba buscando un museo y hasta que no lo dije exactamente "museum", por casualidad, no me entendieron... fue frustrante.




> Si oigo hablar a una persona (inglesa, francesa, japonesa, etc) español con acento de México, Argentina o Cuba, me suena muy extraño y no natural. No sé porqué noto esa diferencia como algo raro y no natural, pero es así. Me pasa exactamente lo mismo si oigo hablar español con acento andaluz a norteamericanos o franceses. No puedo explicar porqué, quizás es la suma de dos acentos (inglés o francés) más (mexicano o cubano) lo que mi oído capta como extraño.


 
Si, me ocurre lo mismo, suena raro pero enseguida piensas "claro, debe haber aprendido el español en Argentina (o el país que sea)".

Saludos

Mei


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## zebedee

Hello Le Pamplemousse,

Your concern is probably shared by 99.9% of your fellow foreros as we're nearly all language learners here.
You might enjoy reading this thread where the same subject was discussed a few months ago and if you do a Search with the word "accent" quite a few more will pop up.

Cheers,
zeb


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## Outsider

Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> I was in the car with a friend of mine earlier tonight and I said something in Spanish (I don't remember what).  She (having taken Spanish in high school) remarked that she hates when Americans try to imitate foreign accents.
> 
> "When they hear you, they'll know you're American right away!"


Pamplemousse, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. What did your friend complain about? That Americans try to speak foreign languages without an English accent? That they try to speak English with foreign accents?...


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## stop

Outsider said:
			
		

> Pamplemousse, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. What did your friend complain about? That Americans try to speak foreign languages without an English accent? That they try to speak English with foreign accents?...


I have noticed that when Spanish people (from Spain) jokingly do an impression of an English-speaker speaking their language badly, they usually sound as if they are imitating an American accent rather than a British one.
I don't know if this has to do with the particular vowel sounds of American English (for example, I've noticed that people from the US seem more prone to not dropping the strong English "o"), or if they have just picked up that accent from music, films, etc,.


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## swift_precision

I am one of the few people who can immitate a large variety of Spanish accents without a trace of an American accent. This could be do to the fact that my parents are not orginally from the US but are actually from Nigeria. Usually when I speak Spanish and natives of the language hear me they are always confused as to where I am from. ¿De dónde eres? ¿De dónde eres? In addition, because of the fact that I am Black and that when I speak Spanish I tend to speak with a Cuban or sometimes Dominican accent, they think I am from those areas. Other times they are not able to identify any *specific* region but assume that I am latino just based on the accent alone. It is very funny and interesting to me. I don't understand why it should seem strange to a native of Spanish that an American or Englishman or Australian would have an accent that sounds similar to their own. This can occur in many ways: for example, if a non-native studies in a Spanish Speaking country, he/she can easily pick up the accent used there. As for me, I have not studied officially in any Spanish speaking country yet I am able to immitate many accents because I practice doing them a lot and my voice is very malleable. 

I agree with the author's friend to the extent that Spanish is not a difficult language to learn and learning the accent is the LEAST difficult of what one does have to learn. There are only 5 vowels used in the whole language---all of them very easy to pronounce. The various consonants and linguistic sounds are also very easy to pronounce. So, when I see many of my American friends mispronouncing the words like ¿cómo estaas? o " pueDo jablar español muy bien" (como si la "d" fuera la "d" en la palabra "doctor" o como si la h fuera una j como en "javier") sounding VERY American it is very dissapointing. I have only met a few non-natives who speak with a Spanish accent that sounds so authentic even I was temporarily confused.


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## swift_precision

stop said:
			
		

> I have noticed that when Spanish people (from Spain) jokingly do an impression of an English-speaker speaking their language badly, they usually sound as if they are imitating an American accent rather than a British one.
> I don't know if this has to do with the particular vowel sounds of American English (for example, I've noticed that people from the US seem more prone to not dropping the strong English "o"), or if they have just picked up that accent from music, films, etc,.


 
jajaja lo que tu dices es la verdad...en muchas ocaciones he notado que cuándo algunos hablantes nativos de español: mexicano, cubano, español lo que sean--cuándo ellos ponen en ridículo a un inglés hablando español, suelen hacerlo usando un acento muy típico de un estadounidense y no de un inglés y a veces yo participo y rio con ellos..jaja.


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## kamspp

hi all,

well I guess no matter what languages you are learning, the first thing you would try to pick up is the accent.  I don't take this kind of imitation as anything bad, but rather the contrary.

In fact, foreigners would not expect you to speak their languages with their accents, however, for those language learners, they would like the master the accents because it's how the certain langauges actually sound like. 

kamspp


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## Le Pamplemousse

> Pamplemousse, I'm afraid I don't understand what you're saying. What did your friend complain about? That Americans try to speak foreign languages without an English accent? That they try to speak English with foreign accents?...


 
Of course, there's no way we'll come close without a significant amount of practice.  I will sound blatantly like an American to a native no matter how hard I try.



> So, when I see many of my American friends mispronouncing the words like ¿cómo estaas? o " pueDo jablar español muy bien" (como si la "d" fuera la "d" en la palabra "doctor" o como si la h fuera una j como en "javier") sounding VERY American it is very dissapointing.


 
I want to jump off a cliff every time I hear a classmate or friend say "jacer" or "jola".  I can imagine myself getting shot in Spain/Mexico/South America if I were to use such a word.


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## Outsider

Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> Of course, there's no way we'll come close without a significant amount of practice.  I will sound blatantly like an American to a native no matter how hard I try.


I think I disagree with your friend. I once had a teacher of English who was French. The French typically have thick accents, but if she hadn't told us she wasn't British I swear I would never have guessed it! 
For a person who starts to learn a foreign language as an adult and never gets to practice much, losing one's accent (i.e., acquiring a native accent) may indeed difficult. But with enough practice I think most people can do it. It's all a matter of speaking the language a lot, and listening carefully to others and to yourself. Of course, as in everything, this is easier for some people than for others.


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## chucho

I'm learning English and my pronunciation in a quite of words is very terrible...

But I try to practice my listening and I hear music, talks, etc...

In Yucatan there're a language (native language, dialect) that I speak sometimes, but the native people when hear me to speak, they laught of me due to my pronunciation, althought they understand me very good.

No te preocupes, sólo habla y practica... es normal que la gente se sienta extraña cuando alguien le habla así, tal vez causa gracia, pero la gente entiende y te ayuda a mejorar (bueno al menos en mi estado la gente es más amable)


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## machinehead

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Mi opinión, muy personal por supuesto, es que para mí es perfectamente natural oír hablar a un mexicano, a un argentino o a un cubano con sus respectivos acentos.


How do these different (native speaker) accents of Spanish sound to you, diegodbs? 

Which Spanish-speaking country has the most pleasing accent, the one which a student of Spanish should strive to imitate?

If you feel that Spain conserves the best accent, I would still inquire which LatAm country has a Spanish accent which pleases the ear?

Thanks!


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## LV4-26

Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> I was in the car with a friend of mine earlier tonight and I said something in Spanish (I don't remember what). She (*having taken Spanish in high school*) remarked that she hates when Americans try to imitate foreign accents.
> 
> "


 Then I take it she's not Spanish or a native Spanish speaker. She's probably American as you are.

When you reach a certain level of proficiency in a language (which isn't your native language) you sometimes happen to be irritated when your fellow countrymen speak it badly, with a thick accent, or even when you're aware *they're trying to imitate the accent.

*I'm not annoyed personnally but it often makes me smile when I hear French people trying to speak English. And I guess I could be slightly irritated or amused when I'm aware they're trying to imitate the British or American accent. I'm not sure.

But all the above refers to a person of your own native language (French for me, American for you). I really don't think the natives (Spanish speakers in your case) are aware you're trying to imitate them. Your friend can because she perfectly knows what it's like, she can easily put herself in your position. I've heard many Britons or Americans speak French, I suppose almost all of them have been trying to imitate a French accent (no reason why they shouldn't) and I've never thought "they're trying to imitate the accent". I've always thought "Oh, this one's a good accent" or "that one is a beginner" or "that one almost sounds French". That's all.

Believe me, this "imitation complex" can only exist (when at all) between two people of the same mother tongue. I'd consider it as a psychological phenomenon : "oh dear, I must sound the same as (s)he does" or something like that. One is always much more intolerant to the defects they're aware or afraid of having.


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## diegodbs

machinehead said:
			
		

> How do these different (native speaker) accents of Spanish sound to you, diegodbs?
> 
> Which Spanish-speaking country has the most pleasing accent, the one which a student of Spanish should strive to imitate?
> 
> If you feel that Spain conserves the best accent, I would still inquire which LatAm country has a Spanish accent which pleases the ear?
> 
> Thanks!


 
Otra vez son opiniones muy personales las que intento dar aquí. Quizás el acento argentino y el cubano son los que suenan más extraños a mi oído; su "música", su entonación y su vocabulario son los que me parecen más alejados del castellano standard. Eso no es ni bueno ni malo, simplemente es.
Siempre he oído decir en España que en Colombia se conserva el español más puro (entendiendo por puro el más parecido al español standard) de toda América.
¿Qué acento del español debería aprender o imitar un extranjero? Eso es más complicado. Supongo que dependerá de para qué necesita aprender español, de si sus intereses o actividad están más relacionados con España o con América. Aunque a veces no se puede elegir; un estadounidense se encontrará con profesores de español que procedan de México (por cercanía) y no de España, de la misma manera que en España es más fácil encontrar profesores de inglés procedentes del Reino Unido, y no de EE.UU.
Dices:  


> If you feel that Spain conserves the best accent


 
En cierto modo sí y no. Creo que tiene cierta lógica que un español considere que su español es el "mejor" puesto que el español procede de España, de la misma manera que un inglés puede considerar que su inglés es mejor que el de EE.UU ya que ese idioma procede de su país. Puede tener cierta lógica, pero, realmente los idiomas no son propiedad de un país, son propiedad de personas que habitan en países. Y si dentro de España las personas hablan con acentos diferentes, son más normales todavía los cambios que ha sufrido el español en América durante 500 años, y separado de España por miles de kilómetros. 
No sé si he respondido a la pregunta que hacías, no es fácil decirlo en cuatro palabras. Y como son opiniones muy personales, es normal que a otra persona de España o de América le pueda parecer extraño o rarísimo lo que he dicho sobre los distintos acentos y mi impresión al oírlos.


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## Maria Juanita

Bueno, ya que mi trabajo consiste en aplicar mis destrezas bilingües (hablo por telefono con anglo e hispano-parlantes) puedo hablar en cuanto a mi experiencia.

La idea es que una cosa muy diferente es lo que tú piensas acerca de tu nivel de competencia en cuanto al idioma extranjero y el éxito que tengas al comunicarte con un nativo. He hablado con clientes que piensan que soy alemana, francesa (lo cual es realmente extraño puesto que en nada se acerca a mis raíces), canadiense...y algunos se acercan y dicen que soy mexicana. De todas maneras, el caso es que a algunos les hace gracia y a otros les enfurece. Con algunos me entiendo a la perfección y con otros resulta bastante frustrante. Sin embargo, de esta situación me entristece que a veces haya gente discriminadora que asume un cierto grado de inferioridad y ni siquiera intenta escuchar realmente. Yo cuando veo a una persona que intenta aprender mi idioma me siento halagada y trato de ayudarle en lo que pueda, de la misma manera en que me gustaría que lo hicieran conmigo.

En cuanto al acento, yo diría que es mejor buscar un acento neutral, ya que uno puede parecer un payaso tratando de imitar el acento foráneo. Claro que eso depende también del oído de la persona, creo yo. Dicen que para hablar lenguas (sobre todo si se aprenden siendo uno ya adulto) se requiere un talento natural. Tuve una compañera de estudios a la que nunca ha podido salirle la R francesa y tiene que ver con algo fisiológico. Así que creo que en la neutralidad está la clave. Considero que no podemos ocultar nuestros orígenes, pero tampoco deberíamos atropellar la lengua que tratamos de perfeccionar y, a menos que seamos expertos, imitar un acento ajeno puede sonar caricaturesco.

En cuanto a nuestro trato del idioma _español_, como colombiana puedo decir que es un asunto de neutralidad también. Supongo que también está relacionado con la cantidad de neologismos y regionalismos existentes en cada país. Yo estoy orgullosa de nuestro uso del idioma, pero no desdeñaría el castellano de la "madre patria" y considero que eso tiene que ver más con el individuo que con el grupo al que pertenece; he visto a mucha gente maltratar el idioma y a otros ser sorprendentemente educados y vivimos en el mismo país.

Saludillos...


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## LV4-26

What most struck me in Le Pamplemousse's initial post was the bit about imitation. I based my previous post on that and I'd like to come back to it on a more general level.
We should never be ashamed of or feel uneasy about imitating. Learning is only made of that. When you're a baby and try to learn your mother tongue you also do it by imitation. I strongly believe we human beings are super-monkeys, more than anything else. Imitation is our best skill and our best asset and is so deeply rooted in our nature than we're hardly aware of it. We've climbed to the top of the species scale thanks to that super-ability.
But that's another story obviously so I'll come back to the main topic (or one of the main topics). Local accents.


			
				Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> especially because I have heard many different Spanish accents and mine is sort of a mixture of them


 Trying to transpose the situation, I imagine an English native speaker with a mixture of Lille and Marseille accent in his/her French.  Well, why not? I wouldn't mind either.
Getting a regional accent isn't something that you force yourself to do, something that is artificial and conscious. (or if it is, don't do it). It's something natural (in the sense that imitation is natural to human beings as per my first paragraph) and unconscious only due to prolonged exposure. It also happens when you move inside *your own country* for a long time.
I haven't been to England for quite a long time now. I haven't been exposed to any regional accent. So I stick to the one I have (RP + some traces of 'Solent' accent + a touch of vague somewhere-in -Northern-Europe non-native one - or so have I been told by a few Britons).


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## Rich696

I'm not sure, even as an English-speaker with a little French (more than most people in England), that I would be able to pick up on the fact that a French person was trying to imitate an English accent, unless, of course, they were trying to mock a distinctive regional dialect, such as Yorkshire, Lancashire, Cockney, Geordie, Brummie, etc.  But I would never find it offensive.  In fact, I would be rather pleased about it, because, in common with many English people, I often find the French accent (when speaking English) v. difficult to understand, particularly in males.

From a personal level, I honestly couldn't say whether I am imitating a French accent (when speaking French), or whether I am merely trying to imitate "correct" pronunciation, à la Alain and Juliette @ http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html !  I'm not really sure where one draws the line in this respect.  But surely it's better to try to speak with French pronunciation (or a French accent if you must) than to speak with absolutely no regard for French pronunciation.  Even I can hear how horrible the very thick English accent sounds, especially in films when they get an American or British actor, with absolutely no grounding in French, to speak the language.
http://www.research.att.com/projects/tts/demo.html


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## Orgullomoore

Grr...I dread when people hate on my accent. It's mostly Mexican, with a mix of a little bit of everything I've heard, but that's really my only choice. I mean, do people really expect me to talk like Peggy Hill? I do my best to neutralize my gringo accent when speaking Spanish, if not for embarrassment reasons, so that I'll be understood. In the restaurant where I work, it's interesting to see that new servers with little experience (fresh from Mexico) are unable to understand gringo's drink orders with Spanish names (Piña Colada, Margarita, Patrón, Tequila, Tecate...) because of the accents. "Tee-cate-ee" is simply not understood when we're talking about "teh-caught-eh", and in the same way, it is very hard for Americans to understand hispanics who don't make an effort to neutralize their accents.

The fact is, there is no  American Spanish accent unless you count chicano, which is, more than anything a Mexican-American English derivative that's just plain incorrect and hideous. It is in fact harder for me to try to speak Spanish in a heavy American accent than it is for me to just repeat what I hear.


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## Le Pamplemousse

> Then I take it she's not Spanish or a native Spanish speaker. She's probably American as you are.
> 
> When you reach a certain level of proficiency in a language (which isn't your native language) you sometimes happen to be irritated when your fellow countrymen speak it badly, with a thick accent, or even when you're aware *they're trying to imitate the accent.
> *


 
...except that I'm much more proficient than her.  She only took Spanish in high school, then stopped when she got to college.  I think her annoyance stemmed from the fact that she thought I was trying to imitate a Spanish speaker (negative connotation) than that I was just pronouncing the way I've been taught to pronounce for a long time.



> It is in fact harder for me to try to speak Spanish in a heavy American accent than it is for me to just repeat what I hear.


 
Agreed.  I don't want to do that because then I'll feel like a snobbish American.  On the other hand, however, I don't want to offend anyone by trying to speak like they do.  I certainly would never try to imitate a Southern U.S./New York/British accent in English if I went to any of those places (I'm from Northern Illinois).


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## Outsider

I understand your concern, but I agree with LV4-26: imitation is a part of learning. Even a little caricature can help improve one's accent. And not just accents; foreign languages also have their own intonations, filler words, body language... You just have to be discrete when you are with native speakers, so that it won't seem like you're mocking anyone. But I'm an imitator, too; I've caught myself imitating inflections and expressions of other people around me, in my own language! It can be embarassing if it's too exaggerated (you learn to control it, eventually), but I don't do it on purpose. It's just my way to "tune in", I suppose.


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