# the best / the better / better ?



## Adamastor77

During an online english test, I had to choose between those 2 following sentences which one was right:

a) It's the better to ignore him when he's like that

b) It's the best to ignore him when he's like that

​as per the website, answer b) is the right one, but I don't understand why. Can anyone give me an explanation ?

To be perfectly honest, both seem wrong to me. I would rather write:

It's better to ignore him when he's like that

​But perhaps it is a mistake due to my mother tongue: french... 

​Thanks in advance
Luís​


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## Fernita

Adamastor77 said:
			
		

> During an online english test, I had to choose between those 2 following sentences which one was right:
> 
> a) It's the better to ignore him when he's like that
> 
> b) It's the best to ignore him when he's like that
> 
> 
> ​as per the website, answer b) is the right one, but I don't understand why. Can anyone give me an explanation ?
> 
> To be perfectly honest, both seem wrong to me. I would rather write:
> 
> It's better to ignore him when he's like that
> 
> 
> ​But perhaps it is a mistake due to my mother tongue: french...
> 
> ​Thanks in advanceLuís
> 
> ​


 
Hi, Luis! I'd use *'It's better to...*'
Fernita


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## timpeac

"It's better" or "it's best" would work (with little difference in sense that I can see) - but neither work with the "the".


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## JamesM

I believe the progression is "good / better / best" - "it's good to ignore him", "it's better to ignore him", "it's best to ignore him."


The English test answers both look wrong to me. 

The only time I can imagine using "the better" is in a different type of construction.  "Let's move to the other side of the room, the better to ignore him."


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## Fernita

In fact, it depends on the context. Right?


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## Donnie

timpeac said:
			
		

> "It's better" or "it's best" would work (with little difference in sense that I can see) - but neither work with the "the".


 
How about the wolf's "All the better to see you with" in Red Riding Hood?


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## timpeac

Fernita said:
			
		

> In fact, it depends on the context. Right?


I can't discern a difference at all between "better" and "best" here.

"It's better to ignore him when he gets like that", "it's best to ignore him when he gets like that" - synonymous for me (despite the traditional comparative, superlative forms).


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## JamesM

That's a different construction.  You wouldn't say "It's the better to see you with."  The inclusion of "it's" is what makes the choices wrong.


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## timpeac

Donnie said:
			
		

> How about the wolf's "All the better to see you with" in Red Riding Hood?


Yes that's fine - but the construction is different (as James points out).


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## southerngal

In my opinion, whoever made up that English test was not a native speaker!  I've never heard either sentence written or spoken exactly like that.

It is the better alternative of the two is fine.

But It is the better to ignore him makes me want to ask, The better (or best) _what_?


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## panjandrum

I agree the the needs to be removed.
Here is a suggested difference between the two:

Suppose he is a three-year-old lying on the floor screaming and kicking his heels.

Someone has suggested picking him up and talking to him.
Mum says (a) - it is better to ignore him. (... than to pick him up and talk to him.)

Someone has said "Can you not do something to stop him?"
Mum says (b) - It's best to ignore him. (I've tried everything you could think of, but nothing will make him stop.)

I'm probably making a difference where there isn't one.


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## e.jalal_33

Hi 

Sometimes in English, the native speakers don't respect the rules of grammar. So in this case may be he wanted to mean "the best" although there might have been a comparison between two different things which initially require the use of a comparative adjective "better".


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## timpeac

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I'm probably making a difference where there isn't one.


I do fear so

I thought about the intellectual spins you could give by analysing the phrases in traditional terms, but ultimately I'm sure I can't see the difference in instinctive terms.

What we need is to think of a phrase where the choice of either "best" or "better" would give a ridiculous sentence in one case and a perfectly normal one in the other.


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## .   1

If I ever hear 'all the better' I know that I am listening to a reference to Red Riding Hood or someone is speaking olde worlde for some reason.
.,,
I hope I am not off thread with this famous old Australian saying from Joseph Furphy.
Good better best never let it rest until your good is better and your better best.


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## timpeac

. said:
			
		

> If I ever hear 'all the better' I know that I am listening to a reference to Red Riding Hood or someone is speaking olde worlde for some reason.
> .,,
> I hope I am not off thread with this famous old Australian saying from Joseph Furphy.
> Good better best never let it rest until your good is better and your better best.


Well, all I can add to that is that you'll never get a better bitta butter on your knife!


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## .   1

timpeac said:
			
		

> Well, all I can add to that is that you'll never get a better bitta butter on your knife!


Unless you want a bitta bitter butter on the best baked bagel.

.,,


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## heidita

The comparative you learn at school is

good   better  * the* best

So the best is asked for here. 

I don't think it's a fortunate example though, as _best_ would certainly be *the best*.


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## A90Six

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I agree the the needs to be removed.
> Here is a suggested difference between the two:
> 
> Suppose he is a three-year-old lying on the floor screaming and kicking his heels.
> 
> Someone has suggested picking him up and talking to him.
> Mum says (a) - it is better to ignore him. (... than to pick him up and talk to him.)
> 
> Someone has said "Can you not do something to stop him?"
> Mum says (b) - It's best to ignore him. (I've tried everything you could think of, but nothing will make him stop.)
> 
> I'm probably making a difference where there isn't one.


I'd have to go along with panj here, sort of.

*As I see it.*
Neither of the options given in the test appear right to me. The *the* before *better* and *best* is wrong.

*Better* is comparative and requires a comparison.
*Best* is a superlative and does not require a comparison.

It's better to ignore him when he's like that. 
This is acceptable here, as it suggests that the other of two possibillities is *not to ignore him*.

This may not always be the case:
It would be better to walk. One could walk, run, hop, skip, jump, catch a bus, take a train or hail a taxi. If another single choice had already been given, "Shall we walk or wait for a bus?" then it would be acceptable.

It's best to ignore him when he's like that.
This is acceptable as it means, *of all the possible reactions one could have to his being 'like that', ignoring him would be the best*.


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## Fernita

I agree with Heidita on the fact that the example is not *good.* It would be *better *to have *the best* example in the world to make this clear, *the sooner*, *the better*. 

Best regards,

Fernita.


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## heidita

You have just proven millons of people wrong

 Results *1* - *10* of about *2,320,000,000* for *"the best*

*Grammatically it is perfectly correct.*


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## heidita

*best* _adj._ *< bêst >* *:* *1.* Having the most positive qualities; "the best film of the year"; "the best solution"; "wore his best suit." [Superlative of 'good

*best* _adv._ *< bêst >* *:* *1.* In a most excellent way or manner; "he played best after a couple of martinis." *2.* It would be sensible; "you'd best stay at home."

This should be the difference, adjective or adverb.


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## A90Six

heidita said:
			
		

> You have just proven millons of people wrong
> 
> Results *1* - *10* of about *2,320,000,000* for *"the best*
> 
> *Grammatically it is perfectly correct.*


I think you may have misunderstood. There is nothing wrong with 'the best'. What is wrong is the use of *the* before *best* or *better* in the sentences given by Adamastor77 in the first post.

He is the best footballer in the world. 
That was the best meal I ever ate. 
He thinks he's the best thing since sliced bread.


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## heidita

A90Six said:
			
		

> I think you may have misunderstood. There is nothing wrong with 'the best'. What is wrong is the use of *the* before *best* or *better* in the sentences given by Adamastor77 in the first post.


 
I cannot agree with you, grammatically speaking, the best is _correct,_ though obviously no used.

It's the best ( method/thing/we can do) to ignore him....
The best thing we can do is to ignore him.....


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## A90Six

heidita said:
			
		

> I cannot agree with you, grammatically speaking, the best is _correct,_ though obviously no used.
> 
> It's the best ( method/thing/we can do) to ignore him....
> The best thing we can do is to ignore him.....


Changing the construction or rewording the sentences can of course render the terms acceptable.

You are entitled to your opinion, but were you to say "It's the better to ignore him when he's like that," or, "It's the best to ignore him when he's like that," to a UK native, it would mark you out as a non-native.




*Google:*"It is the better to ignore" (0)
"It is the best to ignore" (4) Three of these are the same phrase repeated on the same website.
"It is better to ignore" (963)
"It is best to ignore" (18,300)
​


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## JamesM

> You are entitled to your opinion, but were you to say "It's the better to ignore him when he's like that," or, "It's the best to ignore him when he's like that," to a UK native, it would mark you out as a non-native.


 
You would get the same reaction in the U.S.  I think the issue is that "better" and "best" refer back to "it" here. If you were to put a noun after "better" or "best", it would be referring to the noun that followed:

It is the better part of valor to ignore him.
It is the best choice simply to ignore him.

We expect the "missing noun" when we hear the sentence:

It is the better (???) to ignore him.
It is the best (???) to ignore him.


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## timpeac

heidita said:
			
		

> I cannot agree with you, grammatically speaking, the best is _correct,_ though obviously no used.
> 
> It's the best ( method/thing/we can do) to ignore him....
> The best thing we can do is to ignore him.....


I'm sorry Heidita but no - you can't force languages to conform to rules just because it is neat. "The best" in such sentences as "it's the best to ignore him" is not correct on any level, it is simply _wrong_. It is a pity, then, if foreign grammar books of English are not making this distinction clear. By your argument it is "correct" to say "I be, you be, he bes" etc!! Grammar rules can have exceptions!!


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## Adamastor77

Your comments and explanations went far beyond my expectations.
Thank you to everybody !!


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## panjandrum

Just to clarify the Google situation a little.
A search for "the best" will count any examples, regardless of context. It is no surprise to find that "the best" scores highly - although I see with some amusement that best must appear without *the* more often than with.
about *5,160,000,000* for *best *
about *2,370,000,000* for *"the best"*
which means, if my sums are good enough,
about *2,790,000,000* for best without the 

What we are interested in here is the specific context:
It is (the) better/best ...
I've removed ignore from the examples A90Six analysed:
about *164* for *"it is the better to"*
about *29,800* for *"it is the **best** to"*
about *17,600,000* for *"it is **better** to"*
about *22,100,000* for *"it is **best** to"*


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## heidita

Panjandrum, are all the entries found by google for 

it's the best to....

by non-natives? I wonder. As the school books teach this:




> There are some important exceptions to these rules. Here are two of the most important exceptions:
> *good*
> 
> good - adjective
> better - comparative
> the best - superlative


I would have considered it therefore _"correct",_ though not the best possible choice. The exception to this exception is unfortunately not taught. 

No, timpeac, I would not consider
I be , you be, he bes _correct._


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## driFDer

^^^^
It is correct....however, if you want to sound like a native, you would drop the "the."  Leaving the "the" in the sentence would sound odd to some native speakers, since most of us ignore "high-english" rules, and make shortcuts. Be it lazyness, or lack of concern.


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## timpeac

I checked through the first twenty examples of "it is the best to". Some are of the form "it is the best. To me..." or "it is the best to date". Some are of the form "it is the best to take pictures with" (eg a camera) (and I wonder if it is this acceptable phrase that is causing the confusion? Note the difference between "it is the best (one) to take pictures with (specific)" and "it is best to ignore him" (general)). Of the small remainder, yes almost all seem to be by clearly foreign speakers.

"It is the best to ignore him" is wrong. It is not people "forgetting" some rule. The rule that you must say "the best" just does not function in generalised sentences. It is an exception to that rule. If you say "it is best to ignore him" you will sound like a native because that is what natives say. If you say "it is the best to ignore him" you will sound like a foreigner making the sort of mistake natives would tend not to (as opposed to something like "if I was you" that they often do say and is considered an error).


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## A90Six

timpeac said:
			
		

> I checked through the first twenty examples of "it is the best to". Some are of the form "it is the best. To me..." or "it is the best to date". Some are of the form "it is the best to take pictures with" (eg a camera) (and I wonder if it is this acceptable phrase that is causing the confusion? Note the difference between "it is the best (one) to take pictures with (specific)" and "it is best to ignore him" (general)). Of the small remainder, yes almost all seem to be by clearly foreign speakers.


I found this too when I searched, which is why I specifically included *ignore* to identify the correct type of sentence. Any other verb would probably do as well, but I thought it best to keep it in context.


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## panjandrum

There is no evidence, other than an assertion, that 
"It is the best to ..." or "It is the better to ..." is correct and 
"It is best to ..." and "It is better to ..." are wrong.

The crude Google analysis finds that *It is best to* overwhelms *It is the best to* by about 740:1.

This is at the level of irrelevant noise.

I summarise:

There is no justification whatsoever for suggesting that 
(a) *It is best to ...* is incorrect.
and
(b) *It is the best to ...* is correct.

The evidence of usage indicates that (a) overwhelms (b).

The native English-speakers here support that usage.

No evidence has been produced that there is a "rule" however mistaken, on the basis of which we could say that (a) is wrong.


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## cuchuflete

I won't reveal the depths of my ignorance by joining an argument about what some language instruction book may have to say, in isolation, about comparatives and superlatives.

The solutions presented in post #1 are totally, thoroughly, and absolutely wrong, faulty, and otherwise incorrect on the grounds that they are anti-idiomatic! No native speaker would ever say or write either of them, unless under the influence of some pernicious, mind-numbing substance.

All that said, I'm sure we could find some obscure grammarian who would regale us with a specious rationale for such appalling usages, which assault both eye and ear with their downright cloddishness.

Please don't accuse me of neutrality or a gentle turn of spirit here.


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## brian

I'd like to add another intriguing exception to the rule necessitating a "the" in front of "best," before giving some additional comments below on the main example of the thread:

_I am best at playing piano._

Never in 1.6 billion years would I ever consider saying that there is no piano player (in a group or in the universe) better than I am, but if I ever wanted to fabricate such a lie, I would say, _I am the best at playing piano._

Forcing myself to add a "the" before "best" would imply the above.  However, without the "the," I am implying that, of any other instrument I can play, _I am most talented_ at playing piano, not clarinet, trumpet, or sax.  Notice again, I just said "...am most talented," not "...am the  most talented."  The rule works no matter which superlative you're using.

The same applies to our above example.  The fact that we're using "best" really doesn't mean much.

_It is best to ignore him.
It is better to ignore him.
It is less troubling for us to just ignore him.
It is no less work to just ignore him.
It is more fun to ignore him.

_We would never say _It is the less troubling, it is the lesser work, it is the more/greater fun, _etc.

Probably the most famous exception to the "the best" rule is _best of all_ as an interjection/adverbial phrase or whatever its called (like _most importantly_): _We're going to Hawaii for our honeymoon, and best of all, her parents are paying!_


Brian


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## A90Six

How about if you reconstruct and get rid of the pronoun?

To ignore him is the better when he's like that.
To ignore him is the best when he's like that.
To ignore him is better when he's like that.
To ignore him is best when he's like that.

As was pointed out by JamesM, the first two require something else between *better/best* and *when*;option/choice/thing. Then *the* would apply to this, and not to *to ignore him*.


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## 123o4

I am really sorry for crossing you all, but I've heard and read sentences like this: "the more you study, the better you become". If I'm not wrong, it's called "contrastive sentence". What do you say about it? Thank you.
123o4
PS: I'm still learning English. Correct me if necessary.


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## brian

A90Six said:
			
		

> How about if you reconstruct and get rid of the pronoun?
> 
> To ignore him is the better when he's like that.
> To ignore him is the best when he's like that.
> To ignore him is better when he's like that.
> To ignore him is best when he's like that.
> 
> As was pointed out by JamesM, the first two require something else between *better/best* and *when*;option/choice/thing. Then *the* would apply to this, and not to *to ignore him*.


 I was thinking about this, too.  While to the ear it does sound like the difference between which is right and which is wrong becomes more apparent by reconstructing the sentences as such, I'd argue that from a grammatical standpoint you haven't really changed much.  In other words, neither sentence is more or less correct or incorrect now than they were before, _grammatically_ speaking.

In both cases, _better/best_ modifies an infinitive (or a gerund if you'd like to change it to _Ignoring him is best..._).  If I were playing grammarian, I'd say:

_When "best" acts adjectivally by modifying an infinitive or gerund in a sentence, the use of "the" directly preceding "best" is not only unnecessary, but in fact wrong and henceforth forbidden under penalty of death and/or excusal from the thread (just kidding).  Should one insist on the imposition of said "the," such a choice would necessitate an appropriate noun being placed immediately after "best."  There is one exception to this, and that is the colloquial use of "the best" to mean "so much fun," "so exciting," etc.

When he acts like that, ignoring him is best. 
When you realize you are being ignored, it is best to refrain from repeating your previous actions. 

The exception: I had a great time back in New York.  Seeing you guys again was the best!  I hope we can do it again soon._ _(Seeing the friends may or may not have been the best part of the trip; regardless, it was a very fun and memorable part of the trip.)_

Interestingly enough, the use of _worst_ applies to the exception (_Man, hitchiking from Chicago to Alaska was the worst!_), but we generally refrain from using _worst_ in contexts similar to the other sentences above with "best."  For example:

_When a toddler screams and yells in an angry fit, it is best to ignore him; but when an infant does so, the worst thing to do is ignore him._

I've never really hard "It is worst to..." or "____ing is worst."

Anyway, I'm sure there are some other exceptions to my rule above.  If you think of any, please post them!


Brian


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## cuchuflete

123o4 said:
			
		

> I am really sorry for crossing you all, but I've heard and read sentences like this: "the more you study, the better you become". If I'm not wrong, it's called "contrastive sentence". What do you say about it? Thank you.
> 123o4
> PS: I'm still learning English. Correct me if necessary.


Fear not, 12304, as you are crossing nobody.  Your example is perfectly valid and proper.  It's also thoroughly distinct from the sentences in post #1.

I don't believe anyone has said that "the best" is unacceptable usage.  Rather, many of us have commented that the definite article sounds atrociously out of place in the particular examples cited.  The best one can do is read post #1 again.


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## big-melon

In my opinions, I think maybe "the best" just function as a noun, instead of adjective.


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## la reine victoria

"You're simply the best"!  (You know who you are.)  







LRV


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