# To invite friends



## microalia

Why don't put a form to send our friends and invite them to join our community?
Bye bye
Micro


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## LadyBlakeney

That could be a very good idea. If you are interested Mr. Kellogg, I suggest you devise a standard form explaining the range of languages and issues and the volume of activity of the forum. Some information about the Word Reference Dictionaries would be appropriate as well. Perhaps you could add a space for the sender to give his/her own opinion and encourage his/her friends to join us.

What do other members think of this proposal?


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## Sharon

How are we to distribute this form? I have verbally told my friends about this forum, and if the excitement in my voice didn't sell them, nothing would! 
If something like this is to happen, I would like to know that there was at least a small section explaining the importance of placing your post/thread in the proper forum.
I think it would be a good idea to send a friendly e-mail to the Language/Linguistics Departments of colleges/universities, outlining the forum, and encouraging them to encourage their students to visit us!!!


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## mkellogg

Nice idea microalia. 

Hopefully, I can get it done this week.

LadyBlakeney, can you write me a small paragraph that sounds genuine, yet is generic enough?  I think one of you would do a better job writing it than I would...

Thanks!
Mike


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## LadyBlakeney

Oh, dear! You flatter me, Mike!

I will try and give you a simple draft, hoping that more proficient forum members will correct my mistakes and lack of style. I would like to encourage all the excellent writers that visit the forum to give you their expertise and savoire-faire in this matter.

There goes my contribution, most humbly:

_________ te invita a descubrir los foros de idiomas Word Reference. Esta iniciativa, totalmente gratuita, ha nacido como un complemento a los diccionarios de idiomas en línea Word Reference, que ofrecen traducciones entre inglés, español, italiano y francés, así como definiciones en lengua inglesa. En los foros Word Reference, personas de todo el mundo interesadas en estos idiomas ya están ayudándose mutuamente, respondiendo y obteniendo respuestas para sus dudas y preguntas sobre todos los ámbitos del lenguaje y la cultura. El número de miembros crece muy deprisa en este foro abierto a todos, en el que cualquiera puede contribuir valiosamente sin importar su nivel de conocimiento del idioma. Visita los foros Word Reference y comparte los vastos conocimientos de sus miembros en un ambiente agradable de intercambio cultural.

Para visitar los foros Word Reference, pincha aquí.

Para utilizar los diccionarios Word Reference, pincha aquí.

I'll try the English version but I don't think it will be worth.


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## LadyBlakeney

Here goes the English version:

_________ invites you to discover the Word Reference language forums. This free membership project started as a complement to the Word Reference on-line language dictionaries, where translations of words from English to Spanish, Italian and French, as well as definitions in English, are offered. At the Word Reference Forums, people all over the world share their interest in languages and help each other with questions and answers on all aspects of the different languages and cultures that meet there. This welcoming community is growing very fast as everyone, regardless the level of knowledge, can make a valuable language contribution. Visit the Word Reference forums and enjoy the vast knowledge of its members in a nice, multicultural environment. 

To visit the Word Reference Forums, click here.

To use the Word Reference dictionaries, click here.


Please correct me!!


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## dave

Lady B - that is fantastic. Not only stupendous English but also really friendly and inviting! The only tiny tiny correction that I can offer is *regardless of their level of knowledge*.


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## el alabamiano

dave said:
			
		

> Lady B - that is fantastic. Not only stupendous English but also really friendly and inviting!


Ditto Street!


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## DDT

Very good work, LadyB!
I do appreciate the way you developped Micro's idea.
Just wondering, any Italian translation of the form needed?

DDT


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## mkellogg

You see LadyBlakeney, I asked the right person for help!

My only suggestion is to get rid of the blank at the beginning, and instead start it with something like "I would like to invite you..." and WordReference is one word.

Mike


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## cuchuflete

Mike, I am delighted to see this developing so quickly, and thanks to Lady B,
so very well.  You may also wish to cross link with fine sites such as 
"La Palabra del día" of the Instituto Cervantes.

Best regards,
Cuchufléte


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## LadyBlakeney

Thank you all for your kind words.   

Dave, thanks for the correction. I must try and remember that, in English, words like "people", "everyone" and "everybody" are plural!

Mike, I agree with your decision of changing the beginning of the text, it will sound much better. Only one point: don't you think there should be a space in the invitation form for the sender to sign it? If people don't see a familiar name, they might discard the message as spam, might they not?


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## garryknight

LadyBlakeney said:
			
		

> I must try and remember that, in English, words like "people", "everyone" and "everybody" are plural!


 "people" is plural, but "everyone" and "everybody" are singular.

 For example, you'd say:
 "How many people *are* coming on Sunday?"
 "Everyone *is* entitled to his own opinion."
 "*Is* everybody in this forum crazy?"


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## Artrella

garryknight said:
			
		

> "people" is plural, but "everyone" and "everybody" are singular.
> 
> For example, you'd say:
> "How many people *are* coming on Sunday?"
> "Everyone *is* entitled to his own opinion."
> "*Is* everybody in this forum crazy?"




sO IT SEEMS!  Erasmus of Rotterdam says in his "Elogio de la locura" THAT  crazy people are not so, the crazy ones are those that claim they're not crazy...    In fact some crazyness is not that bad, is it? children my level of cerebral activity is decaying, which means Art you should go to bed before you continue with the blabbling...
See ya in the morgen!  Bis Donnerstag!


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## LadyBlakeney

I'm puzzled!

Dave told me that the correct sentence would be:

This welcoming community is growing very fast as everyone, regardless *of their* level of knowledge, can make a valuable language contribution.

If that is so, how come we use "their" with a singular pronoun, "everyone"? Please help me with this one.

Thanks in advance.


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## calzetin

LadyBlakeney said:
			
		

> I'm puzzled!
> 
> Dave told me that the correct sentence would be:
> 
> This welcoming community is growing very fast as everyone, regardless *of their* level of knowledge, can make a valuable language contribution.
> 
> If that is so, how come we use "their" with a singular pronoun, "everyone"? Please help me with this one.
> 
> Thanks in advance.



If Im not wrong you say "their" because it includes both "his" and "her".
I mean, in Spanish you would say "sin importar SU nivel" SU = su (de él) + su (de ella). Sometimes people say "regardless of his level", but "their" I would say is both politically and gramatically correct.
For example: you give away present to many people (what an example). Later on you can ask "is everyone happy with their present?"


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## LadyBlakeney

Thank you very much for the explanation, Calzetin.


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## dave

Thank you too, Calzetin. Your explanation is better than anything I could have come up with! 

No doubt the more pedantic grammarians would have a field day with this, and might argue that everyone and everybody must take a singular pronoun. However it would sound so wrong:

Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that they want some more. YES
Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that he/she/it wants some more. NO NO NO!


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## garryknight

dave said:
			
		

> No doubt the more pedantic grammarians would have a field day with this, and might argue that everyone and everybody must take a singular pronoun. However it would sound so wrong:
> 
> Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that they want some more. YES
> Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that he/she/it wants some more. NO NO NO!


 Oh, I'm going to have a field day with this!  

 Strictly speaking (and I rarely speak strictly any more), it should be "that he wants some more", or at least that used to be the case. But many people thought that the use of 'he' wasn't fair to the fairer sex, but then you couldn't use 'she' because that wouldn't be fair to the unfairer sex, and 'it' just... well, wouldn't hack it. So 'they' decided to replace 'his' with 'their' (well, they would, wouldn't they? they are 'they', after all). Confused? Join the club!

 So, LadyBlakeney's example sentence:

 "This welcoming community is growing very fast as everyone, regardless *of their* level of knowledge, can make a valuable language contribution."

 grammatically speaking, should say "regardless of *his* level of knowledge" because "everyone" = "every one" and not "every many". But it doesn't say that because it simply wouldn't be fair.

 Incidentally, a couple of decades ago, or thereabouts, someone proposed the use of the word "hir" to mean "his or her". What on earth were they thinking of?


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## Artrella

garryknight said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm going to have a field day with this!
> 
> Strictly speaking (and I rarely speak strictly any more), it should be "that he wants some more", or at least that used to be the case. But many people thought that the use of 'he' wasn't fair to the fairer sex, but then you couldn't use 'she' because that wouldn't be fair to the unfairer sex, and 'it' just... well, wouldn't hack it. So 'they' decided to replace 'his' with 'their' (well, they would, wouldn't they? they are 'they', after all). Confused? Join the club!
> 
> So, LadyBlakeney's example sentence:
> 
> "This welcoming community is growing very fast as everyone, regardless *of their* level of knowledge, can make a valuable language contribution."
> 
> grammatically speaking, should say "regardless of *his* level of knowledge" because "everyone" = "every one" and not "every many". But it doesn't say that because it simply wouldn't be fair.
> 
> Incidentally, a couple of decades ago, or thereabouts, someone proposed the use of the word "hir" to mean "his or her". What on earth were they thinking of?






From Julian Barnes' "Talking it Over" Chapter 1 His, His or Her, Their

..."the point I'm trying to make is this: _everyone else around here has changed their name._..." "Now, did you notice how I said "everyone" followed by "their".  I did it deliberately probably just to annoy Oliver..."
..."Oliver says that words like "everyone" and "someone" and "no-one" are singular pronouns and must therefore be followed by the singular possessive pronoun, namely HIS."
"Guillian said you couldn't make a general remark and then exclude half the human race, because fifty per cent of the time that _someone_will turn out to be female.  So for reasons of logic and fairness you ought to say _his _ or _her_..."
"Oliver said we were discussing grammar not sexual politics."

This is the beginning of this novel which deals with a love triangle (Stuart- Oliver- Gillian)  
Who of the three characters do you agree with? and why?  Art


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## mkellogg

Whew! I've finally got it working.

Please test it for me: http://forum.wordreference.com/sendmessage.php?do=sendtofriend&refer=1

In a few days I'll put a link to it beside the "Contact Us" link at the bottom of the page.

Also, here is the Spanish text. Please double-check it for me. I've made a couple of minor changes from LadyBlakeney's version.
Hola,

Te invito a descubrir los foros de idiomas WordReference. Esta iniciativa, totalmente gratuita, ha nacido como un complemento a los diccionarios de idiomas en línea WordReference, que ofrecen traducciones entre inglés, español, italiano y francés, así como definiciones en lengua inglesa. En los foros WordReference, personas de todo el mundo interesadas en estos idiomas ya están ayudándose mutuamente, respondiendo y obteniendo respuestas para sus dudas y preguntas sobre todos los ámbitos del lenguaje y la cultura. El número de miembros crece muy deprisa en este foro abierto a todos, en el que cualquiera puede contribuir valiosamente sin importar su nivel de conocimiento del idioma. Visita los foros WordReference y comparte los vastos conocimientos de sus miembros en un ambiente agradable de intercambio cultural.


Para visitar los foros WordReference: 
http://forum.wordreference.com/index.php?guestlanguageid=5 


Para utilizar los diccionarios WordReference: http://www.wordreference.com/es/index.htm

De,
mkellogg
(It will put your username there)

 
Can a couple of you translate the English to French and Italian?

Mike

PS. For the record, I prefer "his or her" to "their" for more formal communication.


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## cuchuflete

> =dave
> No doubt the more pedantic grammarians would have a field day with this, and might argue that everyone and everybody must take a singular pronoun. However it would sound so wrong:
> 
> Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that they want some more. YES
> Everybody is enjoying the cake so much that he/she/it wants some more. NO NO NO!




Sorry to burst your bubble Dave, but to my ear, admittedly defective after all these years without a monarch, it sounds just fine to hear:

Everyone wants his way with her.  Everybody is so wrapped up in his shorts about being politically correct that they have forgotten that the whole point of speech is communication, not artificial kindness and consideration.

I even feel at home with:  Nobody is going to change his mind about this topic; we shall simply have to agree to disagree, preferably agreeably.

I have yet to find a definition of 'politically correct' that was not deficient in logic, regardless of its adherence to someone's perverse sense of grammar.

May I please step down from the soapbox now?  After all, everbody wants his turn for rebuttal.

Saludos,
Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

Hello Mike-  

It works. 

Perfectly well.  

One small nit to pick: You pick up the sender's nickname, but it is all lowercase.  Is there a way to capitalize the initial letter of the
apodo?

Best regards,
Cuchu


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## el alabamiano

mkellogg said:
			
		

> Whew! I've finally got it working.
> 
> Please test it for me: http://forum.wordreference.com/sendmessage.php?do=sendtofriend&refer=1


Only one minor thing to note; the word Forums is duplicated in the "From" address:

"WordReference *Forums Forums*" forum@wordreference.com

Otherwise, it works fine!


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## Artrella

Hi people! I've already sent two invitations to two friends of mine from the Profesorado.  I hope the'll join us.  Regards, Art


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## LadyBlakeney

Hello everybody,

I would like to thank Garryknight, Calzetin. Artrella, Dave and Cuchufléte for their help. Now I must take party for "their", "his or her" or "his". The problem is: as I live in Spain, I am afraid I am bound to have to sit some English exams in the future. When correcting those exams, examiners will probably be quite strict in their undertanding of what is gramatically correct. So, despite which option I choose in my speech, does any of the alternatives provide the security that it is going to be considered correct by everyone? I Know I expect a lot of teaching from you, but this is a tough subject for me. I'll try to balance my queries' account by restraining myself from nitpicking for some time.

Thanks again.


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## LadyBlakeney

Mr. Kellogg,

I think the form is great. I'd only change the ending of the Spanish message from "De, mkellog" to:

*Saludos,

Mkellog.*

By the way, is it ok that the sender of the form can modify the text of the message before sending it? Wouldn't it be safer to add a field in the form for the sender's comments?

Thanks for your hard work.


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## garryknight

LadyBlakeney said:
			
		

> does any of the alternatives provide the security that it is going to be considered correct by everyone?


 In my opinion, no. This is one of those areas where 'grammatically correct' and 'politically correct' will always differ. Having said that, in an exam it's probably better to be grammatically correct. What the examiner thinks is grammatically correct is another matter...


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## garryknight

Artrella said:
			
		

> "Guillian said you couldn't make a general remark and then exclude half the human race, because fifty per cent of the time that _someone_will turn out to be female.  So for reasons of logic and fairness you ought to say _his _ or _her_..."


 Used in the context you gave earlier, the word *his* simply doesn't relate to any particular man or men. Like the word *mankind* it is (or, at least, always was) intended to be gender-neutral. And to save the human race from the fate of dying from lack of energy after having to say "his or her or its or that of Your Grace or Your Eminence, not forgetting you, Your Majesty..." every time in case we left out someone who might throw a hissy fit if we forgot to include them.

 In my opinion, it has never ever been about excluding women. I'd be more than happy for all the grammar books to change the word "his" to "her" in the section that deals with this subject. But it would be missing the point.



			
				Artrella said:
			
		

> Who of the three characters do you agree with? and why?


 Well, it looks as if Oliver agrees with me.


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## DDT

Hi Mike, here's the Italian version. Just a little suggestion, why don't you just sign the letter as Mike Kellogg instead of mkellogg?

Ciao,

Ti invito a conoscere i forum linguistici WordReference. Si tratta di un'iniziativa completamente gratuita, nata come complemento ai dizionari linguistici on-line WordReference che offrono traduzioni dall'inglese all'italiano, al francese e allo spagnolo, oltre a definizioni in inglese.
Nei forum WordReference persone di tutto il mondo condividono il loro interesse per queste lingue e si aiutano mutualmente, rispondendo e ottenendo risposta a dubbi e domande inerenti i più diversi aspetti delle lingue e delle culture che qui trovano un punto d'incontro. Questa comunità aperta sta crescendo velocemente, in quanto chiunque può apportare il suo valido contributo a prescindere dal suo livello di conoscenza della lingua. Visita i forum WordReference e condividi l'ampio spettro di conoscenze dei suoi membri in un ambiente simpatico e multiculturale.

Per visitare i forum WordReference: 
http://forum.wordreference.com/inde...estlanguageid=5 


Per utilizzare i dizionari WordReference: http://www.wordreference.com/es/index.htm

Ciao,
Mike Kellogg


DDT


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## Ladydean

Just a little note: In the Italian version, the second time "WordReference" appears, the second "r" in the word is lower case instead of upper case.


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## DDT

Thanks Ladydean, I just made the correction!   

DDT


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## mkellogg

I've made some of the suggested changes.

Also, the text _is_ editable.  The signature is your username in the forum.  If your username is lowercase, then it will be lowercase, too.  Why not include your real name as the signature?  Because the system does not always know your real name - it just has everyone's username.  Of course, you can change it to your real name before sending.

Thank you all for your help!

DDT, thanks for the Italian translation.  (One must select Italian as your forum language to send the Italian version of this form.)  Can you please translate the e-mail subject for me, too:  "Join us at the WordReference Forums"?


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## mkellogg

I've now added the link to the footer (new term for you all) of the fourm pages.  Look at the bottom of this page and you will see "Refer Friends" beside "Contact Us"


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## DDT

As Italian e-mail subject I'd suggest "Vieni a trovarci nei Forum WordReference", which would sound more as "Come and see us at the WordReference Forums", I guess better (in Italian, from a cultural point of view) than a literal translation of the English subject. It's only a proposal, literal translation is "Unisciti a noi nei Forum WordReference". Choosing is up to you.

DDT


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## mkellogg

I'll take your word for it and use your "culturally aware" translation.

Thanks again.


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## valerie

May I suggest a French translation, which should be reviewed by other french speaking persons (I am not very satisfied, it sounds to me like a translation)

Bonjour,

Je voudrais t'inviter à découvrir les forums de langues de WordReference. Ce projet gratuit a démarré comme complément des dictionnaires on-line de Word Reference (Anglais, Français-Anglais, Espagnol-Anglais et Italien-Anglais). Sur les forums de WordReference, des personnes du monde entier partagent leur intérêt pour les langues et s'aident mutuellement sur tous les aspects des différentes langues et cultures qui se retrouvent sur les forums. Cette communauté accueillante grandit très vite, et chacun, quel que soit son niveau de connaissance peut apporter des contributions de valeur. Rends visite aux forums de WordReference et tu pourras découvrir les grandes possiblités offertes par ses membres dans un environnement agréable et multi-culturel. 

Voici l'adresse des forums WordReference: 
http://forum.wordreference.com/index.php?referrerid=475
L'adresse des dictionnaires de WordReference est la suivante: http://www.WordReference.com 

Cordialement,


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## valerie

Here are some changes inspired to me by the spanish version (the original one from LB)


Bonjour,

Je voudrais t'inviter à découvrir les forums de langues de WordReference. Ce projet gratuit a démarré comme complément des dictionnaires on-line de Word Reference (Anglais, Français-Anglais, Espagnol-Anglais et Italien-Anglais). Sur les forums de WordReference, des personnes du monde entier partagent leur intérêt pour ces langues et s'aident mutuellement en apportant et recevant des réponses à leurs doutes ou problèmes, sur tous les aspects de la langue et de la culture. Cette communauté accueillante grandit très vite, et chacun, quel que soit son niveau de connaissance, peut apporter des contributions de valeur. Rends visite aux forums de WordReference et tu pourras découvrir les grandes possibilités offertes par ses membres dans une ambiance agréable d'échange culturel. 

Voici l'adresse des forums WordReference: 
http://forum.wordreference.com/index.php?referrerid=475
L'adresse des dictionnaires de WordReference est la suivante: http://www.WordReference.com 

Cordialement,


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## OlivierG

valerie said:
			
		

> Bonjour,
> 
> Je voudrais t'inviter à découvrir les forums de langues de WordReference. Ce projet gratuit a démarré comme complément des dictionnaires on-line de Word Reference (Anglais, Français-Anglais, Espagnol-Anglais et Italien-Anglais). Sur les forums de WordReference, des personnes du monde entier partagent leur intérêt pour ces langues et s'aident mutuellement en apportant et recevant des réponses à leurs doutes ou problèmes, sur tous les aspects de la langue et de la culture. Cette communauté accueillante grandit très vite, et chacun, quel que soit son niveau de connaissance, peut apporter des contributions de valeur. Rends visite aux forums de WordReference et tu pourras découvrir les grandes possibilités offertes par ses membres dans une ambiance agréable d'échange culturel.
> 
> Voici l'adresse des forums WordReference:
> http://forum.wordreference.com/index.php?referrerid=475
> L'adresse des dictionnaires de WordReference est la suivante: http://www.WordReference.com
> 
> Cordialement,


Seems right. However, I would write "en ligne" instead of "on-line".


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## clavie

C'est très bien, mais j'écrirais aussi "en-ligne".


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## mkellogg

Thank you valerie, OliverG and clavie!

If there are no more recommended changes, I'll put up the valerie's last text with "en-ligne" substituted.  I'll do this tonight or tomorrow.

Mike


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## mkellogg

I've applied the French text, but I need someone to translate the message subject: "Join us at the WordReference Forums"

Also, to send the message in French, you must first change your forum language to French in your User Control Panel (at least temporarily).


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## DDT

I guess "Rejoins-nous aux Forums WordReference" should work.

DDT


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## valerie

How about: "Viens nous retrouver sur les forums WordReference"


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## clavie

ou encore:  Joins-toi à nous...


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