# 彼は, 自分の知識にあった ある忌まわしい罪を想像してしまう



## JapanForever

彼は, 自分の知識にあった ある忌まわしい罪を想像してしまう
Hi there, 
I would like to know what does 想像 mean in this sentence? Is it feeling? For the context, that's a character who was trapped in an illusion for torture. 
Thanks for your answers. By the way I would like to know the meaning of 忌まわしい罪 here?


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## rei429

He imagined a certain dreadful crime in his knowledge.


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## JapanForever

Thanks. Can I also translate it as "dreadful sin"?


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## iety19

That's OK.


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## JapanForever

But 忌まわしい罪 isn't really strong to qualify a crime?


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## iety19

I think the word 忌まわしい refers it is dreadful ethically or religiously.
So, the word "vice" also might be appropriate.

And, I don't think the sentence was written by a native Japanese speaker.
The part 自分の知識にあった doesn't sound like correct Japanese.
自分の記憶にあった is better.


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## JapanForever

But what kind of crime should have this 忌まわしい罪 sense? And I copied this sentence from a visual novel...


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## iety19

I can't guess it exactly without sentences following this, but it may be a incest or an abortion.
Or, He might have stolen an English flute that the girl he loved owned. Japanese schoolboys occasionally do it.


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## JapanForever

And murder and torture can be viewed as one?


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## iety19

Yes. Like 忌まわしい殺人事件。
It means the cruel murder.


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## JapanForever

OKay thanks. About the sentence by the way, isn't  "think" instead of "imagine"?


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## iety19

In actually, I  can't almost understand what the author means, cause this sentence is a typical bud Japanese some visual authors write.
In usually, when we say 自分の知識にある in the sentence like this , it means that I just have heard about it before but not experienced ever by myself.
So, I guess he wants to say that he heard about some kind of sin or crime ever but have never seen or committed it, so he imagines it.
If he wants to say he did committed the sin or crime and remember it, he should say　自分の中にある忌まわしい罪の記憶を思い出してしまう。


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## JapanForever

So he know the crime (in this context that's murder or apparently torture) and the situation makes him imagine it? Afterward he just said "yada yada" if it can help you?


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## iety19

No, it makes me more complicated.
Thinking from his words "yada yada", the man killed or tortured must be himself, his family or friends.
So why does he consider that experience as his sin?


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## JapanForever

Actually the situation made him trapped and must torture then kill one his loved person (don't know who is anymore) and there is this sentence written then the "yada, yada"


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## iety19

Anyway, the sentence,自分の知識にある罪 isn't correct Japanese sentence at all.
It has no means discussing about this sentence anymore.


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## JapanForever

Actually that's really this sentence actually.


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## iety19

Sorry? You mean someone he loved have been captured and the seen makes him remember it?
If so, why does he talk about it as if it can be attributed to him?


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## JapanForever

No that's not really it. I didn't explain very well. The person he loved and himself had been trapped in an illusion for torture and he saw this person and in order to torture himself, himself must torture then kill his beloved person. That's why he said "yada yada" and there is the sentence with the sin


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## iety19

OK, listen.
At first, you don't know some recent visual books' author write incorrect Japanese. Because, they have to, in a short term, make a lot of contents to just sell for their living. Because of publish sell decreasing in recent years.

In this sentence, it is so very bad Japanese and so hard to understand that what we can do is just guess, OK?

About the first part, 自分の知識にあった, means nothing other than "He just heard from someone and know it".
And the secondary part, ある忌まわしい罪を想像してしまう。 We ordinary understand it as his sin or crime.
The first part conflicts with the later at all. So it is impossible to understand this sentence perfectly even if you were a native.


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## JapanForever

Even with the context?


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## iety19

If he was forced to kill her girlfriend and did it,　we don't say about that experience 自分の知識にある never.


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## JapanForever

So what about 自分の知識にある ? Maybe he just knew the nature of crime. And the moment where there is this sentence is right when  he is about to kill her


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## iety19

Maybe...... If you thought so.


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## JapanForever

But what is the problem between these two parts of the sentence?


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## iety19

I told you.


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## JapanForever

That really confusing...So in the strictly sense, that meaning that the main  hero already knew the sin/crime (just because someone told him) and he already did it?


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## iety19

Yes.
So I said this sentence is incorrect.


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## JapanForever

But do you mean that the hero already did it (before to be trapped) to someone else than the beloved person?


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## iety19

Sorry? Did what?


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## JapanForever

I meant "already did the crime"? If he was accustomed to do the crime before it for example?


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## iety19

I only said that 知識にあった doesn't mean nothing other than "being heard from someone".
So he have never committed crime.

But you told me the main hero was forced to kill or torture the heroin and did it before, and in this seen, he remembers it and is suffered.
Are that the story yeah?

Don't you think them as an inconsistency?


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## JapanForever

So there is the story: (that's very complicated. I have even some troubles to explain)
The hero had some combat in the visual novel with the heroine. However one moment they are trapped in an illusion where the hero is tortured by the enemy. One moment, the enemy shows the heroine and forces the hero himself to  torture and kill her (in order to torture himself in addition) 
So when it happened and he was about to torture her (when he understood that he will torture her) there is this sentence then "yada yada" from the hero


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## iety19

Oh, I see. It made sense.
You wanna say the hero feels a mental conflict?
That is, does自分の知識にあったある忌まわしい罪have sexual meaning which was prohibited by ethical or religious reasons and which he has never done before?
And, in this seen, he is about to do it?


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## iety19

If it means so, it makes a sense perfectly.
But, it still sounds bit funny.


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## JapanForever

Don't really know  is it was sexual as I didn't really understand the scene but yes. He was forced to torture her. Afterward he suffered from a mental conflict. (even in this visual novel a lot of heroes suffered from the same torture)
Yes he's about to do it when there is this sentence and tried to resist (that's the moment where there is the sentence and yada yada). But finally did it afterward.


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## JapanForever

Why is it funny?


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## iety19

ある忌まわしい罪 will be translated in ' the particular dreadful sin."
In the sentence like this, 忌まわしい should have sexual meanings like masturbation or something.
If it means a social crime like murder, we don't need use the expressions, 知識にあった　and 忌まわしい.

But anyway we have solved the problem. Your reading must be right.


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## JapanForever

So in the end, that's what we found at the beginning?


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## iety19

Funny means this sentence is too exaggerated and is unnaturally indirect expression. 
It sounds like he is about to do something kinky to the heroine.


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## iety19

JapanForever said:


> So in the end, that's what we found at the beginning?



Sorry? What are you asking about?


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## JapanForever

Hm. Okay
So it was hard to definitely understand ^^ Thanks for your help a lot iety19


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## iety19

No, I enjoyed it. See you again.


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