# Col vento si spippola il corallo di una sete di baci



## jedna

Hello members,



 Col vento si spippola il corallo di una sete di baci


I'm struggling with the above line out of an Ungaretti poem. This one:
http://www.partecipiamo.it/Poesie/ungaretti/lindoro_di_deserto.htm

Could somebody help me translating that enigmatic 'si spippola'?

Thank you, and best regards
Jedna


----------



## Tegs

Have you checked any of the translations already available? I found one after 5 minutes of googling. 

Page 49 of "A Major Selection of the Poetry of Giuseppe Ungaretti" in Google books - http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=efGiSCBXbPIC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false


----------



## Mary49

Hi jedna and Tegs, 
I've read the translation in Teg's link, but I don't agree with the use of the verb "to blunt" for "spippolare". I've checked Italian dictionaries and found it is a synonym for "sgranare", for example the beads of a rosary. see here http://it.ewrite.us/come-affrontare-il-porto-sepolto-di-ungaretti-90352.html   "... l\’elemento dello spippolare, che rimanda al mondo arabo in cui era cresciuto ungaretti [...[ Spippolare (i pippoli d\’ambra della corona, con cui vengono fatti i rosari) si ritrova..."
I'm not sure about "to blunt".


----------



## jedna

Good morning Mary49 and Tegs,
Thank you both for your answers. I fully agree with Mary as to the 'blunt'-option. (I discovered it too among some other translations, which didn't suit my idea of what it had to be either.
The 'granare' option seems very interesting to me. In meantime I found some explanation in Treccani online:
*spippolare* v. tr. [der. di _pippolo_, nel sign. di «chicco»] (_io spìppolo_, ecc.), tosc. – 

*1.* Piluccare, staccare i chicchi: _s. l’uva_. 

*2.* fig., non com. Fare qualche cosa (come leggere, comporre, cantare o suonare) con grande disinvoltura e facilità (cfr. il più com. _snocciolare_): _Al suon del zufolo Cantando spippola Egloghe_ (Redi). 

which is the same as in Zanichelli, but in Treccani they give an example (snocciolare) and:  the "suon del zufolo to which Cantando spippola Egloghe".
This one remembers me of a part out of an Ungaretti poem in which he (a.o.) tells about a journey through the Corsican mountains, seeing and hearing play a young (shepherd)boy his "zufolo" while an older shepherd sings (maybe Egloghe...)
So I think this Treccani-option could be a valuable one too. But first I will study the info's in the link you sent me Mary. Who knows?! 
So: Thank you so much, but of you, for your time and energy!
Wish you a nice sunny day,
kindest regards,
Jedna


----------



## ohbice

jedna said:


> Good morning Mary49 and Tegs,
> Thank you both for your answers. I fully agree with Mary as to the 'blunt'-option. (I discovered it too among some other translations, which didn't suit my idea of what it had to be either.
> The 'granare' option seems very interesting to me. In meantime I found some explanation in Treccani online:
> *spippolare* v. tr. [der. di _pippolo_, nel sign. di «chicco»] (_io spìppolo_, ecc.), tosc. –
> 
> *1.* Piluccare, staccare i chicchi: _s. l’uva_.
> 
> *2.* fig., non com. Fare qualche cosa (come leggere, comporre, cantare o suonare) con grande disinvoltura e facilità (cfr. il più com. _snocciolare_): _Al suon del zufolo Cantando spippola Egloghe_ (Redi).
> 
> which is the same as in Zanichelli, but in Treccani they give an example (snocciolare) and: the "suon del zufolo to which Cantando spippola Egloghe".
> This one remembers me of a part out of an Ungaretti poem in which he (a.o.) tells about a journey through the Corsican mountains, seeing and hearing play a young (shepherd)boy his "zufolo" while an older shepherd sings (maybe Egloghe...)
> So I think this Treccani-option could be a valuable one too. But first I will study the info's in the link you sent me Mary. Who knows?!
> So: Thank you so much, but of you, for your time and energy!
> Wish you a nice sunny day,
> kindest regards,
> Jedna



Io proverei con "si sfarina" (crush, pulverize, crumble).
Ciao.
p


----------



## jedna

Hello P.
Thank you for your reply. The crush/pulverize/crumble-option I tried too, indeed, but it didn't fit logically in the 'story'.
My idea of the first lines is that Ungaretti (war 1915 - Cima Quattro) is sleeping in the woods together with his comrads and suddenly awakes
by the flapping of birdwings in the mist (breaking the silence "of the eyes" -after hearing this sudden noise they have to spy again if the enemy is near)
After that _ungaretti is awake- he starts hearing/realizing the wind, together with a sudden longing 'for kisses'. And the 'snocciolare' of this coral remains till dawn.
(allibisco all'alba). So in this option it cannot be that the corals are crushed ecc. much more earlier (at night - by the wind).
Maybe I'm totally wrong, but the solution as pointed out in my answer to Teggs and Mary49 too fits at all points.
Nevertheless, thank you so much for taking your time and spending your energy trying to help me.
Wish you a nice day too and send you my kindest regards
Jedna


----------



## ohbice

jedna said:


> Hello P.
> Thank you for your reply. The crush/pulverize/crumble-option I tried too, indeed, but it didn't fit logically in the 'story'.
> My idea of the first lines is that Ungaretti (war 1915 - Cima Quattro) is sleeping in the woods together with his comrads and suddenly awakes
> by the flapping of birdwings in the mist (breaking the silence "of the eyes" -after hearing this sudden noise they have to spy again if the enemy is near)
> After that _ungaretti is awake- he starts hearing/realizing the wind, together with a sudden longing 'for kisses'. And the 'snocciolare' of this coral remains till dawn.
> (allibisco all'alba). So in this option it cannot be that the corals are crushed ecc. much more earlier (at night - by the wind).
> Maybe I'm totally wrong, but the solution as pointed out in my answer to Teggs and Mary49 too fits at all points.
> Nevertheless, thank you so much for taking your time and spending your energy trying to help me.
> Wish you a nice day too and send you my kindest regards
> Jedna



Sgretola? Scusa ma non riesco a capire come il corallo possa snocciolarsi. E non ho capito da dove trai l'idea di durata (fino all'alba - till dawn). 
Comunque non essendo io poeta credo che puoi tranquillamente rimanere sulle tue posizioni.
Ciao


----------



## jedna

Oh dear! You're right! I made a big mistake here because.... In Dutch corallo (koraal) means: either the organic sea plant, or the colour red (lips - baci!!!) or... cantata!
So I made the mistake, thinking that - in Italian-  the noun 'coralla' had those 3 meanings too, which idea matched perfect with the fact that Ungaretti often chooses for a
noun with more than one meaning. So I have to re-think the corallo-problem anew, and in this case I tend to the option which Mary49 gave, the 'sgranare'-one. But that
'rosary-idea' doesn't fit in the sea plant idea too - unless the rosary is made of corallo...? Forces me to further research.
As to the abillire all'alba: (in my opinion: when day breaks) Here I read two different meanings in the verb too: First the ending of the longings for kisses when the day starts, and secondly: the meaning of being 'surprised' by the beauty (colours/freshness) of dawn. In this case I tend to my idea. But in the corallo-one I'm so very grateful you saved me from the wrong track!
Thank you so much,
kindest regards
Jedna


----------



## Mary49

Rosaries can be made of amber, coral, mother-of-pearl, wood and so on.


----------



## jedna

Hello again, P.
My little research after the corallo-material (and colour!) of the rosario was fruitful:
https://www.google.nl/images?hl=nl&...lt_group&ei=xJC6U4v6IYeo4gS18YFw&ved=0CBQQsAQ 
(see third row from above)
So far so good. I looked up the 'sgranare'-verb (again: thank you, Mary49 for this one!) in Zingarelli's synonyms too, and found: 'sgranare il rosario'= recitarlo. So it is not unthinkable that Ungaretti really meant 'snocciolare' in combination with the idea of letting run through one's  fingers 'le perle di corallo' (material and colour).
As to the 'si' (snocciolare - snociollar-si/spippolar-si): I think he means that he doesn't really recite the rosary, but that this process happens deep within  (another reference to the corallo in the deep sea), so the rosary 'recites itself' within him (like the longing for some baci -tenderness- always occurs within oneself) therefore that 'si'. Soat the end I think I'll stick to my former idea, the more that -as I already pointed out- the Dutch 'koraal' means the cantate too (I found that in Italian it is:
corale - so there we have the beginning of my error. But to end my long story: I think I can quietly stick to my first translation, even it corallo doesn't mean: corale.
Last but not least: I have also been re-thinking your ideas 'crush/pulverize/crumble', but I cannot see how the wind could crush ecc.  'underwater-organisms'.

Thank you so much for giving me the possibility of sparring a little bit and to re-think my choices.
Kindest regards
Jedna


----------



## jedna

Hello Mary,
Thank you for your information. As you can read in my last reply I sent some seconds ago I found the rosary-material (and colour) too!
Most of all thank you for posting your sgranare-link!
Sunny greetings from Holland,
Kindes regards
Jedna


----------



## ohbice

Ciao Jedna. I think I am not able to explain my opinion in english, but I try:
"Col vento si spippola il corallo di una sete di baci" in my modest opinion means that "Quando arriva il vento, il corallo di una sete di baci si spippola". "Si spippola" doesn't convey "Noi si spippola", someone that spippola, but "il corallo si spippola". May the _corallo "_sgranarsi" itself? I think not.
In italiano: "Col vento si spippola il corallo di una sete di baci" significa, a mio parere: Col vento, cioè quando mutano le condizioni del tempo, la dura percezione del desiderio sessuale si addolcisce, si stempera". O anche si sgretola, si sfarina, perde consistenza.
2 corollari: 
1. _Corallo _suggest the idea of the sea, but this not implies that we are under the surface, in the sea.
2. Allibisco all'alba: At the down I allibisco. But there are no evidences of something that remains till dawn. Men che meno c'è evidenza del fatto che lo snocciolare duri fino all'alba.
Ciao ​


----------



## theartichoke

I'm not at all sure about the meaning of the line, but I just wanted to throw this out there in case it helps: I'm pretty sure that in novels set in the 19th century or so, I've come across "un corallo" as a term for something that a baby teethes on--whether this was a piece of coral or a string of coral beads, I don't know. 

The only reason I bring it up is its association with the mouth--maybe the "thirst for kisses" is something you (metaphorically) play with in your mouth, the way a baby would chew on a teether?


----------



## elemika

Ciao a tutti,
si sa che "il 22 e 23 dicembre Ungaretti scrive rispettivamente "Lindoro di deserto" e "Veglia"(clic)

In "Veglia" dice:
"Un intera nottata...
.......ho scritto lettere piene d'amore"

Cetro, potrebbe riferirsi alla nottata di 23 dicembre, chissà; ma forse usava scrivere di notte?
Secondo voi "spippolarsi" qui potrebbe funzionare come "scrivere (speditamente, con scioltezza)..."?


----------



## Anja.Ann

Ciao a tutti  

"Correlativamente, la privazione d’amore è raffigurata come assenza d’acqua (e come distesa desertica), come penuria del liquido vitale verso  cui si protende il
desiderio: la ricerca senza soste dell’io.  
Luoghi esemplari del collegamento dell’archetipo acqueo col fermento d’amore sono il “pozzo d’amore” di Fase, connesso con gli emblemi vegetativi (e la metafora zoomorfa): “Agli abbandonati giardini/ ella approdava / come una colomba [ ... ] le ho colto/ arance e gelsomini", e l’“oasi/ al nomade d’amore” di Tramonto in cui convergono dialetticamente i due principi opposti dell’arido e dell’umido raccontati nella parabola del movimento: la simbologia dell’acqua e della vegetazione (oasi) e quella del viaggio desertico (nomade) connesse al desiderio erotico (amore).

Sul terreno della privazione erotica si svolge, in Lindoro di deserto, la corrispondente metafora della sete, rafforzata e collegata all’altra metafora tratta dall’ambiente marino del corallo: Col vento si spippola il corallo/ di una sete di baci” sete che viene allontanata dall’espansione spaziale del viaggio che ha il correlativo nel movimento del vento: “Ora specchio i punti del mondo  / che avevo compagni / e fiuto l’orientamento // Sino alla morte in balia del viaggio

“Col vento si spippola il corallo di una sete di baci”, secondo me:

Parafrasi: Con il vento si sgrana (perde consistenza) lo scheletro/l’ossatura (corallo) del mio desiderio d’amore (sete di baci).
Significato: Con il/Nel viaggio si affievolisce/svanisce il mio desiderio d’amore.

I do not know if it makes sense in English, but could "The wind tarnishes _the coral of my thirst of kisses"_ do?


----------



## jedna

Good morning members,

Thank you all for your comments and ideas. The ones that please me most -come close to my/ (and Mary49's) yesterday's idea's are the ones of Pietruzzo (who -I see now- deleted his post) and Elemika's idea.
I mean: I've got the (spippolarsi)-picture now, and the next thing I have to do is finding a suitable Dutch expression for it. 
Many many thanks to all of you for helping me out, sending you my kindest regards, and this little PS to oh, bice concerning the corallo under the surface of the sea:
I know and think (and the text in Mary49's yesterday's link confirms) that Ungaretti uses here the metaphor 'under the surface of the sea' meaning: deep within him.
And that suits my opinion concerning the reversive form of spiccolare, because the things that are going on -may it be 'praying', 'composing/writing poems,  ecc.
all come from the deepest of men (the deep see which holds so much treasures (poems/prayers/all kinds of (also sexual) emotions  ecc.

Mille grazie, ciao
Jedna


----------



## Anja.Ann

Jedna  

I do think that "spippolare" here is "sgranare" but the right acception should be: "Sgranare2: 1 Alterare la compattezza e la consistenza della _grana_ di un corpo o di un tessuto: s. l’acciaio; sgranarsi: è una pietra che va lavorata per il suo verso, se no si sgrana."

At least, this is the acception I'd use after reading the explanation I posted in post # 15.


----------



## Pietruzzo

jedna said:


> Good morning members,
> 
> Thank you all for your comments and ideas. The ones that please me most -come close to my/ (and Mary49's) yesterday's idea's are the ones of Pietruzzo (who -I see now- deleted his post) and Elemika's idea.


I'm glad you liked my suggestions but they were just wild guesses. I must confess I haven't come to understand what "si spippola il corallo" means. I don't even know whether corallo is the subject or the object of "si spippola".


----------



## jedna

Hello Anja-Ann

Thank you for your most impressive post. I myself tend to read/interprete the poem as follows:
More than once Ungaretti comforts himself, being in distressing/painful situations with 'beautiful' images, remembrances of the past (Egyptian period).
At the very moment of the poem he finds himself in a terrible war-situation, first at night, then at dawn and there it happens that the 'nostalgia' overcomes him.
He meditates on his life/past, and his life as a person who is addicted to travelling (in reality and in his mind/soul), and then comes the comforting part: Il sole spegne il pianto.... mi copro d'un tepido manto di lind'oro ecc. where he 'travels' (in mind) to the desert, to comfort himself once again.
But the 'col vento'- line, in my opinion is only one of the 'steps of the staircase' and has 'simply' to be seen in/as the situation of the night of the 22th of December 1915
and not born out/basede on of the vento-idea as such, even if your explanation is seducing!
I hope I could express correctly what I meant to say?

Kindest regards
Jedna

Hello Pietruzzo,

I think one has to take it as if one says (for example) the poem writes itself (automatically, as if the composer/writer himself didn't have any influence on the process).
We all have made the experience of having the whole day a song in mind. So: the song sings itseld throughout the day, without any interference of my voice.
Therefore (after me) the si- construction.
This idea matches with the explanation Zanichelli gives:
"2 (tosc. o lett.) dire, comporre, cantare e sim., con facilità e naturalezza: spippolare bugie, sonetti, ariette"


----------



## Anja.Ann

Jedna 

You did express your point clearly.  
Yet, I tend to agree with the idea that "viaggio" is correlated to  "movement" which is metaphorically the "movement of the "wind": in other words,  the wind erodes rocks, travelling tarnishes Ungaretti's desire. 
"Coral", based on the above explanation, is but another figure of speech always relating to the marine environment (water, thus "love" or "need for love").


----------



## jedna

Anja-Ann

And corallo: very fragile organisms indeed....


----------



## Anja.Ann

Yes, Jedna


----------



## ohbice

Anja.Ann said:


> Yes, Jedna



In un post precedente Jedna parla del vento come di un passo del viaggio (della scala dice lei). Su questo sono d'accordo, "Col vento" non fa del vento un attore dello spippolamento ma dice del venire del vento come apertura di nuova fase. A proposito di corallo, la mia interpretazione diverge da quello che andate dicendo negli ultimi post: corallo - oltre che essere elemento che richiama il mare - è l'immagine della durezza. Il duro senso opprimente della mancanza, della privazione, della sete, si spippola con la nuova fase che si ingenera con il vento. Il vento è artefice del sopravvenire di altri ricordi, più famigliari (il deserto eccetera).
Tornando dunque a bomba: se _spippola _si riferisce a durezza, come credo, allora faccio fatica a metterci _sgranarsi_. Mi piace di più _sgretolarsi_.
Ciao 
p


----------



## jedna

Hello again Pietruzzo,

Concerning the spippolarsi-problem I forgot to tell that during the past days I googled the verb and got many (blog)links that used the spippolarsi-verb.
So I got the impression it must be a wellknown construction in Italy.
But it was used in so many and so different occasions that it confused me more than it could help!


----------



## Anja.Ann

P.  

"Sgranarsi" nel senso di "perdere compattezza o consistenza", come una pietra che si sgrana. Per me "sgretolarsi" può esserne sinonimo. 
Per quanto riguarda l'immagine del "corallo", credo che entrambe le immagini suggerite possano rientrarci: "corallo: duro, pesante, ma al contempo, delicato, suscettibile di erosione, di sgretolamento" come dici tu stesso.


----------



## jedna

Anja.Ann said:


> P.
> 
> "corallo: duro, pesante, ma al contempo, delicato, suscettibile di erosione, di sgretolamento" come dici tu stesso.



Fully agree! The emotions he experiences are fragile (and deep in him as the corallo in the deep sea) but in meantime a long lasting (duro) torturing of longing (for kisses) which he cannot have realized, and only  at alba (they) he 'allibisce'.


----------



## Anja.Ann

Glad you agree, Jedna!


----------



## jedna

Hello members,

Concerning the above problem I have spent some more thought, trials en lots of errors, and I think I found a reasonable solution, which I want to share
as a little 'thank you' for all your time and efforts. This one:

"Together with the wind is mumbled the coral 
of thirst for kisses" (mumbled = biascato = una preghiara = corallo = rosario)

To me this one fits perfectly with the situation, and with the next line which says: Allibisco all'alba.

So, ancora: thank you so much for all your help. Wish you a nice evening,
ciao, 
Jedna


----------



## Pietruzzo

jedna said:


> Hello members,
> 
> Concerning the above problem I have spent some more thought, trials en lots of errors, and I think I found a reasonable solution, which I want to share
> as a little 'thank you' for all your time and efforts. This one:
> 
> "Together with the wind is mumbled the coral
> of thirst for kisses" (mumbled = biasc*ic*at*a* = una preghi*e*ra = corallo = rosario)
> 
> To me this one fits perfectly with the situation, and with the next line which says: Allibisco all'alba.
> 
> So, ancora: thank you so much for all your help. Wish you a nice evening,
> ciao,
> Jedna



So that's how you're going to translate it. Don't hurry. Take your time...and take a look at the new thread I opened in the "solo italiano" forum. Who knows? Maybe new ideas will come up.


----------



## jedna

Good evening Pietruzzo,

Thank you for calling back. I've read your thread in 'solo Italiano' and I will follow the results with eagerness. Maybe there's another opening. But for the moment
I'm very content with the one I made today. I can justify this one at every level (also as a poetical image). Only my translation from Dutch into English is not that
perfect and maybe wrong in such a delicate matter. Sorry for that. In Dutch it's a wonderful pair of lines!  But I hope I have made clear at least the contenance.
Thank you for your support! Hoping there will be someone who can clear the spippolarsi-problem...
Kindest regards
Jedna


----------



## jedna

Ciao members,


Long time ago, but from time to time I look once more at the unsolved difficulties that occurred in translating Ungaretti. One of them is the 'spippolarsi'-enigma. In meantime I found this poem:Poesie di Giuseppe Ungaretti - Malinconia, which gave me the idea (third verse) that in the Lindoro-poem could be meant the corallo as a colour (of the lips) With the malinconia-verse in mind I tried once more to find a translation for spippolarsi. Till now I started from the idea that the wind _destroyed or took away_. But couldn’t it be so, that the wind _brings _thoughts/longings to the soldiers lying there all night in the fields, and that these longings are transformed into the red lips (corallo) of the far away inaccessible women?  I remember that, at the time, I found this one in Zanichelli: _pispola / ˈpispola/ *o spippola*, _and _:_ _pispolare / pispoˈlare/[vc. di orig. onomat. ☼ 1853] v. intr. (io pìspolo; aus. avere) ● fischiare con la pispola | (est.) cinguettare | (raro) fischiare. _In short: couldn’t it be so that the wind with its blowing and/or its sound (whistle/fischaire con la pispola) brings them these memories/longings? Something like: With the wind is tempting
the coral of thirst for kisses.
What do you think of this entry, could it be possible, from the point of view of your language, or am I exaggerating here?
Kindest regards, Jedna


----------

