# Hindi / Urdu -  khaae jaa rahii hai



## tonyspeed

एक सवाल मेरे दिमाग को खाए जा रही है! Ek sawaal mere dimaag ko khaae jaa rahii hai

Can  someone  explain  what  grammar form  is  being  used  here. 
I'm  assuming  the  verb  is  khaanaa,  meaning  to  eat,  but  I'm  not  sure.


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## momper

खाना also means "to corrode". खाए जा रही है is a passive form, as you know. I'm only a student, but I would add से: एक सवाल से मेरे दिमाग को खाए जा रही है! Maybe I'm wrong, of course.


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## tonyspeed

There are  several  problems  with  this  explanation.  If  it  were  passive,   it  should  be  khaai jaa rahii to  have  appropriate  conjugation.  Secondly,  by  adding  se  you  are  unwittingly  trying  to  make  it  conform  to what you already  know. 


That  is  exactly  why  I asked  this  question  here.


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## Qureshpor

ek savaal mere dimaaGh ko khaa'e jaa rah*aa *hai.

One question is constantly eating me up/torturing me/vexing me/troubling my mind.


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## tonyspeed

Qureshpor said:


> ek savaal mere dimaaGh ko khaa'e jaa rah*aa *hai.
> 
> One question is constantly eating me up/torturing me/vexing me.



QP sahib,  so  you  have  any  idea  why  khae is  used  here?  Is  this  the  past  participle khae hue used  as  an  adverb? 

Literally: one  question,  having  eaten  my  brain,  is  proceeding?


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## Qureshpor

"verbal root + aa'e jaanaa" imparts a continuous, repetitive action. Yes, it is the past participle used in its inflected form but this usage is not adverbial.

maiN chaahtaa thaa kih vuh chup ho jaa'e lekin vuh to bole (hii) jaa rahaa thaa.

An example from Urdu literature.

dil meN kisii ke raah kiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
kitnaa HasiiN gunaah kiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN

be-kaif hai dil aur jiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
xaalii hai shiishah aur piye jaa rahaa huuN maiN

Jigar Muradabadi


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## tonyspeed

Qureshpor said:


> "verbal root + aa'e jaanaa" imparts a continuous, repetitive action. Yes, it is the past participle used in its inflected form but this usage is not adverbial.
> 
> maiN chaahtaa thaa kih vuh chup ho jaa'e lekin vuh to bole (hii) jaa rahaa thaa.
> 
> An example from Urdu literature.
> 
> dil meN kisii ke raah kiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
> kitnaa HasiiN gunaah kiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
> 
> be-kaif hai dil aur jiye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
> xaalii hai shiishah aur piye jaa rahaa huuN maiN
> 
> Raghupati Sahai "Firaaq" Gorakhpuri




Shukriyah. I feel like I need to compile all these various forms in a table so I don't forget....How would you say this is different from   _khayaa kar rahaa_ ?


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## Qureshpor

^ Could you use this form in a sentence please?


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## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> "verbal root + aa'e jaanaa" imparts a continuous, repetitive action. Yes, it is the past participle used in its inflected form but this usage is not adverbial.


I would say repetitive, continuous....... it is the same but what if we don't agree completely for one time? 

TS SaaHib, one of my favourite Ghazals sung by Ghulam Ali [GHulaam 3alii] is "piye jaa rahaa huuN jiye jaa rahaa huuN". Perhaps you know it but if not, it will be under "piye ja raha hoon". There are many verbs there in this form. Repeatedly, as this form implies, over and over again. I thought the English verb system was quite extensive but now I am coming to a conclusion that it is nothing compared to Urdu.

Edit: I love the instruments and their music in this _Ghazal_.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

marrish said:


> I would say repetitive, continuous....... it is the same


I believe this differentiation to be important, though.
The action is it "ongoing" because of repeated, discrete actions (that give the overall sensation of continuity), or because of a single, uninterrupted action?

For example, in the stanza proposed by @Qureshpor jii:


Qureshpor said:


> _dil meN kisii ke *raah kiye jaa rahaa huuN* maiN
> kitnaa HasiiN *gunaah kiye jaa rahaa huuN* maiN_



Are we talking about little, incremental "pavings of the road", and multiple little sins? 
Would two single, continuous "paving" and "sin" have been: _raah kar rahtaa huuN, gunnah kar rahtaa huuN_?


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## Qureshpor

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> I believe this differentiation to be important, though.
> The action is it "ongoing" because of repeated, discrete actions (that give the overall sensation of continuity), or because of a single, uninterrupted action?
> 
> For example, in the stanza proposed by @Qureshpor jii:
> 
> 
> Are we talking about little, incremental "pavings of the road", and multiple little sins?
> Would two single, continuous "paving" and "sin" have been: _raah kar rahtaa huuN, gunnah kar rahtaa huuN_?


Individual actions, repeated over a period of time. I don't know about "little sins". They could be cardinal sins!


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## littlepond

@MonsieurGonzalito jii, do you see such a vast chasm between continuous and discrete? Isn't every continuity made up of multiple discretenesses (if such a word exists), and everything discrete made up of an unobserved continuity? When a tree falls one fine afternoon, had it been falling from earlier before it was observed to fall? (Maybe the fall was there at the very time the seed germinated, but that would take us into the realm of philosophy.)

Your question is quite curious.


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## aevynn

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> I believe this differentiation to be important, though.
> The action is it "ongoing" because of repeated, discrete actions (that give the overall sensation of continuity), or because of a single, uninterrupted action?


To the extent that there is a "real" difference here, I believe the _ki'e jaanaa_ construction can be used in both senses and you'll have to rely on context to disambiguate. For a literary example where it appears to be a single uninterrupted action, see the following excerpt in Manto's dekh kabiiraa royaa, in which a man keeps on crying (a single, uninterrupted "cry") after seeing a signboard for "Jinnah Boot House" ---

ek dukaan par ye(h) borD lagaa thaa, "jinnaaH buuT haa'us." kabiir ne ise dekhaa to zaar-o-qataar rone lagaa. logoN ne dekhaa ki(h) ek aadmii khaRaa hai. borD par aaNkheN jamii haiN aur ro'e jaa rahaa hai.​
[EDIT] For an example where it appears to be repeated, discrete actions that give an overall sense of continuity, see the following from Patras Bokhari's marhuum kii yaad meN, in which the narrator rides a bicycle that's falling apart and his head gets jerked around as though someone keeps on punching him (discretely, but repeatedly) on the underside of his chin ---

agle pahiye ke Taa'ir/Taayar meN ek baRaa saa paivand lagaa thaa jis_kii wajah se pahiyaa har chakkar meN ek daf3A lamHA-bhar ko zor se uupar uTh jaataa thaa aur meraa sar piichhe ko yuuN jhaTke khaa rahaa thaa jaise ko'ii mutwaatir ThoRii ke niiche mukke maare jaa rahaa ho.​
That being said, I expect most speakers won't perceive these as dramatically different semantics. I don't feel that they're so different, and I believe this roughly what @marrish jii and @littlepond jii may have been getting at here:


marrish said:


> I would say repetitive, continuous....... it is the same





littlepond said:


> @MonsieurGonzalito jii, do you see such a vast chasm between continuous and discrete?


Moreover, I don't think this situation is unique to UH speakers. The closest English translation I can think of for this construction is the "keeps on doing" construction, but that too can be used in both senses. For example, most likely "He kept on crying for hours" implies a single, uninterrupted cry, while "He kept on having his heart broken" implies repeated, discrete heartbreaks.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Suppose there is a family in the beach, and I have these two sentences:

1. _bachche samudr kii or dauRte jaa rahe haiN_
2. _bachche samudr kii or dauRe jaa rahe haiN_

Both mean that the boys "are running and running/keep on running" towards the sea.
But, doesn't #1 suggest several trips to the water (and back) while #2 suggests one continuous effort to reach the water?


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## Qureshpor

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> Suppose there is a family in the beach, and I have these two sentences:
> 
> 1. _bachche samudr kii or dauRte jaa rahe haiN_
> 2. _bachche samudr kii or dauRe jaa rahe haiN_
> 
> Both mean that the boys "are running and running/keep on running" towards the sea.
> But, doesn't #1 suggest several trips to the water (and back) while #2 suggests one continuous effort to reach the water?


اردو بولنے والے سمُدر اَور اور نہیں استعمال کریں گے بلکہ سمُندر اور طرف اور شاید یہ آپ کو بھی معلوم ہو گا۔

بچّے سمندر کی طرف دوڑتے جا رہے ہیں۔

بچّے سمندر کی طرف دوڑے جا رہے ہیں۔

سچ پوچھئے مجھے تو اِن دونوں میں کچھ خاص فرق محسوس نہیں ہوتا۔ پہلے میں یوں لگتا ہے جیسے بچّے سمندر کی طرف دوڑ کر جا رہے ہیں(یعنی دوڑ رہے ہیں اور جا رہے ہیں) جبکہ دوسرے جملے میں لگتا ہے کہ بچّے رکنے کا نام ہی نہیں لے رہے اور دوڑے ہی جا رہے ہیں۔ لیکن پھر بھی تواتر اور تسلسل دونوں میں موجود ہے۔

​


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Qureshpor said:


> urduu bolne-vaale "samudr" aur "or" nahiiN istemaal kareN_ge balki "samundar" aur "taraf", aur shaayad yah aap ko bhii ma3luum ho_gaa.
> 
> - bachche samundar kii taraf dauRte jaa rahe haiN.
> 
> - bachche samundar kii taraf dauRe jaa rahe haiN.
> 
> sach puuchhie mujhe to in donoN meN kuchh xaaS farq maHsuus nahiiN hotaa.
> pɛhle meN, yuuN lagtaa hai jaise bachche samundar kii taraf dauR kar jaa rahe haiN (yaanii dauR rahe haiN aur jaa rahe haiN), jabki duusre jumlaa meN lagtaa hai ki(h) bachche rukne kaa naam hii nahiiN le rahe aur dauRe hii jaa rahe haiN.
> lekin phir bhii tavaatur  aur tasalsul donoN meN maujuud hai.


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## MonsieurGonzalito

Qureshpor said:


> "verbal root + aa'e jaanaa" imparts a continuous, repetitive action. Yes, it is the past participle used in its inflected form but this usage is not adverbial.
> 
> maiN chaahtaa thaa kih vuh chup ho jaa'e lekin vuh to bole (hii) jaa rahaa thaa.


So, the "_bole_" above is not invariable, but the singular oblique?
Does that mean that, about a woman, I would say:

_... lekin vo(h) to *bolii *hii jaa rahii thii ? _


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## Qureshpor

Hi MonsieuGonzaito SaaHib,

I wrote in Urdu so that there would be no errors. Unfortunately your transliteration is not without errors.

"urduu *bolne-vaale* "samudr" aur "or" nahiiN *istemaal* *kareN_ge balki *"samundar" aur "taraf", aur shaayad *yah* aap ko bhii ma3luum *ho_gaa*.

- bachche samundar kii taraf dauRte jaa rahe haiN.

- bachche samundar kii taraf dauRe jaa rahe haiN.

sach puuchhie mujhe to in donoN meN kuchh xaaS farq maHsuus nahiiN hotaa.
pɛhle meN, yuuN lagtaa hai jaise bachche samundar kii taraf dauR kar jaa rahe haiN (*yaanii* dauR rahe haiN aur jaa rahe haiN), *jabki *duusre *jumlaa* meN lagtaa hai *ki(h)* bachche rukne kaa naam hii nahiiN le rahe aur dauRe hii jaa rahe haiN.
lekin phir bhii tavaatur aur tasalsul donoN meN maujuud hai."

bolne vaale, kareN ge, ho gaa, jab kih are separate words.

isti3maal, balkih, yih,  ya3nii, jumle, kih


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## Qureshpor

MonsieurGonzalito said:


> So, the "_bole_" above is not invariable, but the singular oblique?
> Does that mean that, about a woman, I would say:
> 
> _... lekin vo(h) to *bolii *hii jaa rahii thii ? _


No, in Urdu the correct form would be

وہ تو بولے ہی جا رہی ہے۔


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## Qureshpor

Qureshpor said:


> سچ پوچھئے مجھے تو اِن دونوں میں کچھ خاص فرق محسوس نہیں ہوتا۔ پہلے میں یوں لگتا ہے جیسے بچّے سمندر کی طرف دوڑ کر جا رہے ہیں(یعنی دوڑ رہے ہیں اور جا رہے ہیں)


اِس جملے کا ایک تو مفہوم ہے کہ بچّے سمندر کی طرف دوڑتے ہوئے جا رہے ہیں لیکن جن معنی میں آپ اِس جملے کو لے رہے ہیں وہی عام معنی ہیں یعنی

The children go on running/ keep on running / are continually running towards the sea

جیسا کہ میں پہلے ذکر کر چکا ہوں، دوڑتے جانا اور دوڑے جانا کے معنی میں مجھے کوئی خاص فرق نظر نہیں آتا۔


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