# Stout



## Edher

Saludos a todos,

     When talking about physical appearance what is the meaning of the word "stout" is it simply fat or fat but strong?

The stout man had a hard time walking a mile.

Thank You,
Edher


----------



## PSIONMAN

Edher said:
			
		

> Saludos a todos,
> 
> When talking about physical appearance what is the meaning of the word "stout" is it simply fat or fat but strong?
> 
> The stout man had a hard time walking a mile.
> 
> Thank You,
> Edher



Stout refers to size, not strength. And I think it means BIG around the body, but not necessarily fat.


----------



## Edher

PSIONMAN said:
			
		

> Stout refers to size, not strength. And I think it means BIG around the body, but not necessarily fat.



Could you please provide with an example perhaps using famous people?

Thank You, 
Edher


----------



## ElaineG

Orson Welles and Marlon Brando come to mind, although they both passed through stout and ended up obese.

I think Winston Churchill was simply stout.

Sorry for picking people from ancient history (Panj, don't beat me!), but I'm having a hard time thinking of contemporary "stout" figures, given that famous people get their fat sucked away as it soon as it appears these days.

Be aware that "stout" can mean sturdy or strong, although this meaning is more old-fashioned and perhaps becoming obsolete.

Four stout sailors harpooned the whale.  (They are not fat, merely strong, sturdy, steadfast etc.).


----------



## panjandrum

Stout meaning fat, corpulent, thick in the body, is usually a negative comment - a little less direct than fat. But this is a recent definition, dating from the 1800s. A man (women are never stout) is stout if his waist measurement is rather more than what would be considered appropriate for his height.

Earlier meanings, now less common, include healthy, faithful, determined, hardy, valiant, fierce, furious, proud... These would contribute to Edher's sense of fat-but-strong. A Google search for "stout fellow" shows various long-ago references that reflect these meanings together with some more recent that are exploiting the rather archaic sound of the phrase.

Stout is not a commonly-used word here.
ARRGGHH - I mean stout, as an adjective. Now stout as a noun is very, very commonly used.
......aaaahhhhh


----------



## geve

aaah, that's the stout I knew ! (it can get you stout too, though...) (boy am I thirsty)

so "stout" as an adjective cannot be used for women ? What would replace it then ? Or is there a more common adjective that would work for both gender ? "thick" ?


----------



## DaleC

geve said:
			
		

> so "stout" as an adjective cannot be used for women ? What would replace it then ? Or is there a more common adjective that would work for both gender ? "thick" ?


 
"thick", NEVER! That's not used to describe people's overall bodies. "Thick arm, thick leg, thick waist", yes. With reference to persons, "thick" is colloquial for "stupid", although this usage is old fashioned. 

No, *stout *is gender neutral. Of course, as a cultural rather than linguistic matter, in the US it is increasingly considered offensive to publicly acknowledge the fact of a large woman being large. Here, the only culturally safe term is "large". But -- again culturally -- Americans are so uptight (inhibited and peevish) about stoutness or fatness in women, that just to describe a woman as "large" creates tension -- it tells the listeners, "I'm being dutifully euphemistic". 

In response to Edher's originally question: I think most people can't answer it because the word has fallen into disuse whether you're talking about a man or a woman. I think most Americans only encounter it in writing from generations ago. I put myself in this category. So, as a practical matter, you can expect never to have to use it and almost never to encounter it in current use.


----------



## panjandrum

It is entirely possible that my comment (above) ...
*women are never stout*
... is misleading. Certainly _*I*_ would never describe a woman as stout, but that could be my inherent sense of respect rather than a linguistic feature


----------



## geve

It seems anyway, that both men and women are never stout any more (from a linguistical point of view)


			
				DaleC said:
			
		

> "thick", NEVER! That's not used to describe people's overall bodies. "Thick arm, thick leg, thick waist", yes. With reference to persons, "thick" is colloquial for "stupid", although this usage is old fashioned.


thanks for clarifying that, it spared me some funny misunderstandings.


----------



## ElaineG

> "thick", NEVER! That's not used to describe people's overall bodies.


 
For the sake of completeness, "thick" is used in contemporary African-American English to describe a pleasing curviness, and is quite a compliment.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thick


----------



## DaleC

ElaineG said:
			
		

> For the sake of completeness, "thick" is used in contemporary African-American English to describe a pleasing curviness, and is quite a compliment.
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thick


 
Well I'll be damned! I see I haven't been spending enough time around African-Americans lately.  But be careful trying this out among white Americans. They may be as unhip as I am.


----------



## river

I still use the word "stout." _She's not fat, she's stout._ Americans are not fat, we're either stout or big-boned.


----------



## cuchuflete

"big-boned"?  That reeks of our old favorite, PC-speak.
Whatever happened to overweight, huge, skinny, skeletal?

If a person with a perfectly normal bone structure, say five foot five, weighs in at around 300 pounds, what glorious objective is served by calling that obviously large person 'big-boned'? 

Remember Jimmy Rushing's song?  Mr. Five by Five.  Five feet tall and five feet wide.   He was too busy being a great musician to cover himself in euphemisms.


----------



## Kelly B

panjandrum said:
			
		

> It is entirely possible that my comment (above) ...
> *women are never stout*
> ... is misleading. Certainly _*I*_ would never describe a woman as stout, but that could be my inherent sense of respect rather than a linguistic feature


 Why, thank you, Panjandrum. Of course, after reading this I just had to ask Mr. Google, who claims (though we all know his reputation for wild inaccuracy) that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle used the phrase "stout woman" in _The Land of Mist; _so did Upton Sinclair in _The Jungle_. 
Cads.
I wouldn't be surprised to see it, myself; I tend to associate it with the sturdy peasant stereotype.
German does not have a reputation as a beautiful language, but _zaftig _is a far prettier word than stout, I think.


----------



## cirrus

Big boned well predates PC and is generally is a more polite way of referring to what up North we'd call more plainly to as someone with a fat arse.  Mind you skinny arse is just as much as insult and is generally used in such flatter compounds as in Oh 'im/ er I can't be bothere to talk to that skinny / fat arsed waste of space/ jobs worth.

Another euphemism would be somebody with a slow metabolism.


----------



## ElaineG

> but _zaftig _is a far prettier word than stout, I think.


 
I dunno, *Kelly*, when my Grandmother would say that one of her fellow bridge ladies was "zaftig", there was nothing pretty about the word or the expression on her face.

Re: big-boned, this pretty much says it all for me: 



> *Cartman:*: I’m not fat. I’m big-boned.
> *Stan:*: No, Jay Leno’s chin is big-boned. You are a big, fat ass.


----------



## cuchuflete

I know a fellow in the village who has a huge belly.  He's probably about 150 lbs heavier than his physician would like him to be.  Other than the enormous beer gut, he's fairly slim.  Neither stout nor big-boned would fit.  Is there a PC word for pot belly?


----------



## timpeac

"Stout" to me does suggest "overweight" but only by inference. I've been mulling this over for a while and I think I would describe it as "having a low centre of gravity".


----------



## Brioche

panjandrum said:
			
		

> It is entirely possible that my comment (above) ...
> *women are never stout*
> ... is misleading. Certainly _*I*_ would never describe a woman as stout, but that could be my inherent sense of respect rather than a linguistic feature


 
My late mother, (who hailed from the vicinity of the Maiden City)  had no difficulty in describing other women as stout.
In her vocabulary it mean being over-weight, but of the "firm fatness" variety, rather than the "flabby-wobbly" sort.


----------



## Eugens

Oscar Wilde used the adjective "stout" several times in "The Picture of Dorian Gray". I think that he always meant "fat" by that. I think "stout" was perceived as an insulting word, "not worthy of a Duchess", for example:

"Opposite was the Duchess of Harley, a lady of admirable good-nature and good temper, much liked by every one who knew her, and of those ample architectural proportions that in women who are not Duchesses are described by contemporary historians as *stoutness*." http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Wilde/dorian/dorian3.html

"The people who have adored me--there have not been very many, but there have been some--have always insisted on living on, long after I had ceased to care for them, or they to care for me.
They have become *stout* and tedious, and when I meet them, they go in at once for reminiscences." http://www.upword.com/wilde/dorgray8.html

"Romeo was a *stout* elderly gentleman, with corked eyebrows, a husky tragedy voice, and a figure like a beer-barrel." http://www.upword.com/wilde/dorgray4.html


----------



## river

timpeac said:
			
		

> "Stout" to me does suggest "overweight" but only by inference. I've been mulling this over for a while and I think I would describe it as "having a low centre of gravity".


 
Oh, that's perfect. I'm not fat, I have a low center of gravity.


----------



## Brioche

river said:
			
		

> Oh, that's perfect. I'm not fat, I have a low center of gravity.


 
Whereas I'm an alternative centre of gravity!!


----------



## timpeac

Brioche said:
			
		

> Whereas I'm an alternative centre of gravity!!


Does that mean a black hole?


----------



## foxfirebrand

_Stout_ is alive and well among livestock-savvy people, especially as applied to bulls-- it means large, broad, hearty and vigorous, and of course meaty.  In rodeo jargon it means broad-backed and hard to ride, so can be applied to horses as well as bulls.  A good breeding buck (_ram_ in BE) would also be stout.  The male-specific difference Panj referred to applies in the livestock usage too-- you wouldn't talk about a stout cow or a ewe.

I don't agree that the word is all that obsolescent in AE.  I do agree with Brioche's mother's "firm-fatness" idea-- stoutness doesn't tend to sag.

Finally, the word pops up in discussing rough-hewn or finished lumber, and has a niche use in the log industry that's getting so prolific around here.  I don't mean the timber industry, which is languishing because of a faraway and clueless Federal tyranny that sees trees as suitable for forest-fire fuel but not widespread harvest.  I mean the kind of mom-and-pop mill that sizes and finishes logs, skinning and notching them and selling them in kits for people who want buildings built log-cabin style.  Japan provides an inexhaustible market for these, they like designs that incorporate pillars, and the stouter the better-- and they pay top dollar.
.


----------



## cuchuflete

Spotted at a Rubenesque web site: http://www.casagordita.com/carlin.htm


----------



## cuchuflete

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Spotted at a Rubenesque web site: http://www.casagordita.com/carlin.htm



edit: Just saw FFB's post.  I promise. I would never call a bull or a ram Rubenesque.  I swear it. Please believe me.


----------



## la reine victoria

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> I know a fellow in the village who has a huge belly. He's probably about 150 lbs heavier than his physician would like him to be. Other than the enormous beer gut, he's fairly slim. Neither stout nor big-boned would fit. Is there a PC word for pot belly?


 
In England we say 'beer belly'. Many beer-bellied men are fond of their huge abdomen and often rub it, publicly, (almost as a surrogate Buddha), saying 'This cost me a lot of money.' They like to be seen as macho drinkers or 'one of the lads' who can down his pints, usually 10 or more per evening.  

Stout (=fat) people sometimes say, 'I'm not fat, I'm just short for my weight.'


----------



## Brioche

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> In England we say 'beer belly'. Many beer-bellied men are fond of their huge abdomen and often rub it, publicly, (almost as a surrogate Buddha), saying 'This cost me a lot of money.' They like to be seen as macho drinkers or 'one of the lads' who can down his pints, usually 10 or more per evening.
> 
> Stout (=fat) people sometimes say, 'I'm not fat, I'm just short for my weight.'


 
I think there's a Garfield cartoon, where he says "I'm not overweight, I'm under-tall."


----------



## cuchuflete

Here's another view...one I like.  There is a clothing store for ladies in the neighboring village.  It's called "Women of substance".


----------



## Isotta

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> I know a fellow in the village who has a huge belly. He's probably about 150 lbs heavier than his physician would like him to be. Other than the enormous beer gut, he's fairly slim. Neither stout nor big-boned would fit. Is there a PC word for pot belly?


Thick-thorax'd? Balloon belly? As long as it's new, it can't offend--

Z.

ADDENDUM: 
1. I'd contend "stout" is not obsolete in American English. I can't imagine defining it to a mature faculty. 
2. Women as "stout"--I remember seeing a "Catherine's Stout Shop" which sold clothes for larger women. I've just googled, and it seems to have changed to "plus-sized shoppe" or some such.


----------



## geve

I looked up in WR dictionary for the French word "brioche" (no offense, Brioche, but that is how we say beer-belly  ), and it suggests "paunch" ; what do you think ?


			
				cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Here's another view...one I like. There is a clothing store for ladies in the neighboring village. It's called "Women of substance".


Could we say "substantial women" ? (after all, "substantial" does mean "fairly large", or "solidly built"...)


----------



## river

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Here's another view...one I like. There is a clothing store for ladies in the neighboring village. It's called "Women of substance".


 
"Women of Substance" balances nicely with "Petite Sophisticate."


And yes, geve, Substantial Beauty works well, too.


----------



## la reine victoria

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Here's another view...one I like. There is a clothing store for ladies in the neighboring village. It's called "Women of substance".


 
Does it have a website and online shopping facility?  Sounds like my kind of store?

Thanks,

La Reine


----------



## cuchuflete

Here are some petite, if not sophisticated snippets from the local newspaper report of the opening of the new, larger, location for Women of Substance. The highlighting is mine.




> The new capacious parking lot was filled to overflowing with well-wishing guests and brought many comments about how much safer it is to enter and exit. The seven rooms of beautifully displayed merchandise delighted long-time customers who enjoyed all the extra wiggle room and ease of access. Best of all, neighbors loved the cheerful new yellow exterior and gracious porch entryway.


 http://www.mainelincolncountynews.com/index.cfm?ID=16160

The notice continues....


> Since 1995, Women of Substance has been mid-coast Maine’s source for stylish and flattering women’s fashions in hard-to-find generous sizes from Medium/Large (12ish) to 6X (32ish).



So shall we add 'generously sized' to the stout collection?


----------



## river

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Here are some petite, if not sophisticated snippets from the local newspaper report of the opening of the new, larger, location for Women of Substance. The highlighting is mine.
> 
> 
> http://www.mainelincolncountynews.com/index.cfm?ID=16160
> 
> The notice continues....
> 
> 
> So shall we add 'generously sized' to the stout collection?


 
I had no idea you were so big on style.


----------



## Vanda

My 2 cents. Sometimes we use the word  'satisfied' for stout. Whenever we have had enough food we say: No thanks (for a 2nd help) I'm satisfied;  avoiding the word full. ('I"m full' would sound impolite). 
So, when a person is somehow overweight, saying he/she's satisfied in a humorous way is not offensive. When I'm 3k over I say: I'm not fat, I'm satisfied.


----------



## cuchuflete

river said:
			
		

> I had no idea you were so big on style.



The interest grows on me.


----------



## suzi br

Margaret Rutherford always looked stout, especially when playing in the St Trinians films or as Miss Marple.  It would be the only word to describe her figure.  I agree it might not seem like the politest word for women of that build, but there are more offensive turns of phrase too!


----------



## river

suzi br said:
			
		

> Margaret Rutherford always looked stout, especially when playing in the St Trinians films or as Miss Marple. It would be the only word to describe her figure. I agree it might not seem like the politest word for women of that build, but there are more offensive turns of phrase too!


 
Ms. Rutherford looked more sturdy than stout to me.


----------



## suzi br

ho hum - I was looking for some images of Ms Rutherford - but they seem to be mainly head and shoulders  - which rather leaves out the body shape we are discussing!


----------



## cuchuflete

This may help a little or a lot.


----------



## DaleC

Again, if you said "substantial", which is hardly ever used in this sense, you would make yourself conspicuous. Or, you would be making conspicuous that you are dancing around a delicate subject. 



			
				geve said:
			
		

> Could we say "substantial women" ? (after all, "substantial" does mean "fairly large", or "solidly built"...)


----------



## DaleC

In my post, #11, I forgot to mention that whites are 75 percent of all Americans. Therefore, don't go around emulating this latest African-American slang unless you are really sure of who you're talking to. 





> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *ElaineG*
> _For the sake of completeness, "thick" is used in contemporary African-American English to describe a pleasing curviness, and is quite a compliment.
> 
> http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=thick _
> 
> 
> Well I'll be damned! I see I haven't been spending enough time around African-Americans lately.  But be careful trying this out among white Americans. They may be as unhip as I am.


----------

