# Urdu: hidaayat and nasiihat



## Chhaatr

"usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii hidayat dii"

"usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii nasiihat dii"

1. Do "hidayat" and "nasiihat" both mean "advice" in the above sentences?  

2. If these words have different meanings, could someone please give sample sentences to show the difference?

Thanks!


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## Alfaaz

Chhaatr said:
			
		

> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii hidayat dii"
> 
> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii nasiihat dii"
> 
> 1. Do "hidayat" and "nasiihat" both mean "advice" in the above sentences?


Perhaps it could depend on context and interpretation, but not really. Generally, ہدایت _hidaayat_ is used for _guidance, direction, instruction_ while نصیحت _naSeeHat_ is used for _advice_ (_updesh_). For detailed explanations and other meanings, you can refer to the following: نصیحت , ہدایت , hidaayat, naseehat.


			
				Chhaatr said:
			
		

> 2. If these words have different meanings, could someone please give sample sentences to show the difference?


طوفان کی آمد سے پہلے/ قبل ، تمام شہریوں کو بلند و محفوظ مقام پر پناہ لینے کی ہدایت کر دی گئی
_Tufaan ki aamad se pehle/qabl, tamaam shahriyoN ko baland-o-maHfooZ maqaam par panaah lene ki hidaayat kar di ga'ii._

!ابھی مکان مت فروخت کریں ! اسے آپ میری نصیحت بھی سمجھیں اور حکم بھی
_abhi makaan mat faroxt kareN! ise aap meri naSeeHat bhi samjheN aur Hukm bhi!
_
Extra information: In Urdu ہادی / ہدایت کار - _haadi/hidaayat-kaar _is used for _guide/director _and ناصح _naaSiH_ for _advisor/councellor_.


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## Chhaatr

Based on the above response, I would use these words as below.

"usne mujhe gaaRii dhiire chalaane kii hidaayat dii"

"usne mujhe hameshaa sach bolne kii nasiihat dii"

Is my understanding correct?


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz SaaHib, please correct "maHfuuz" in the Urdu script.


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## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii hidayat dii"
> 
> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii nasiihat dii"
> 
> 1. Do "hidayat" and "nasiihat" both mean "advice" in the above sentences?
> 
> 2. If these words have different meanings, could someone please give sample sentences to show the difference?
> 
> Thanks!


Chhaatr Jii, Alfaaz SaaHib has already replied to your query in great detail. I'd just like to concentrate on your "Roman" transcription, purely from the Urdu perspective.

a) "usne" is written "us ne"

b) "sahii" is "saHiiH"

There are two types of "H" in Urdu. This one, in linguistic terms is the unvoiced equivalent of "3ain. So, just like we have p/b, t/d..we have H/3. I distinguish this from the other "h" even though in pronunciation these are not distinguished normally. However, in writing they are. So, you can choose not to bother with this in your Roman and just write "sahiih". But using both h and H will help you to write correctly in Urdu. So, your choice. (This saHiiH/sahiih is different from the other "sahii". 

tuu hai har-jaa'ii to apnaa bhii yahii taur sahii
tuu naniiN aur sahii, aur nahiiN aur sahii

ranjish hii sahii dil ke dukhaane ke liye aa
aa mujhe phir se chhoR ke jaane ke liye aa

Ahmed Faraz

c) raah, although in poetry rah is used to suit metrical requirements.

d) nasiiHat


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## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> Based on the above response, I would use these words as below.
> 
> "usne mujhe gaaRii dhiire chalaane kii hidaayat dii"
> 
> "usne mujhe hameshaa sach bolne kii nasiihat dii"
> 
> Is my understanding correct?


Bearing in mind my other post on transcription "hamesh*ah*".


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## Chhaatr

QP saaHib thanks for the corrections.  Much appreciated.  (BTW, I meant raah but typed rah.  It was a typo)

I have been using "nasiiHat" with "denaa" i.e. "nasiiHat denaa" but the other day I was surprised to hear "nasiiHat karnaa". 

1. Can one also do "nasiiHat"?  
2. Would it mean "to preach"? 

Can we say something like this: "sirf nasiiHat na kareN us pe amal kar ke bhii dikhaaeN"


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## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> QP saaHib thanks for the corrections.  Much appreciated.  (BTW, I meant raah but typed rah.  It was a typo)
> 
> I have been using "nasiiHat" with "denaa" i.e. "nasiiHat denaa" but the other day I was surprised to hear "nasiiHat karnaa".
> 
> 1. Can one also do "nasiiHat"?
> 2. Would it mean "to preach"?
> 
> Can we say something like this: "sirf nasiiHat na kareN us pe amal kar ke bhii dikhaaeN"


Both "nasiiHat denaa" and "nasiiHat karnaa" are used. I prefer the latter just because I am used to this, I think. One could stretch the meaning to "preaching" but it is really "council ling", offering "advice". Alfaaz SaaHib has mentioned "updesh". I believe this word is a good equivalent.

*Iqbal* baRaa *updeshak* hai man baatoN meN moh letaa hai
guftaar kaa Ghaazii yih to banaa kirdaar kaa Ghaazii ban nah sakaa

guftaar = speech, kirdaar = deeds, Ghaazii =  soldier/hero (in this context)


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## Wolverine9

Would you say _SalaaH _is synonymous with _naSiiHat_?


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## Qureshpor

Wolverine9 said:


> Would you say _SalaaH _is synonymous with _naSiiHat_?


I am not sure if by you, you mean anybody or "both of us" I shall try to answer just from my perspective.

salaaH and nasiiHat overlap in their central meaning but are not synonymous. For example, we say "salaaH-mashvarah karnaa". I don't believe we would say "nasiiHat-mashvarah karnaa". The meaning of "salaaH" in Urdu seems to have changed from its original Arabic meaning.


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## Wolverine9

I meant you, QP.  Thanks for clarifying.  By the way, isn't it S and not s in _SalaaH _and _naSiiHat_?


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## marrish

Wolverine9, I think QP SaaHib relates to one of your recent post by ''both'', but it is possible he's wrong on this point. That post of yours was quite enigmatic I must say. 

Now that the addressee has had his say I won't be blamed for poking my nose into your conversation. 

_مشورہ mashwarah_ and _صلاح_ _salaaH_ are representing what in English can be expressed by 'advice' and 'consultation' and 'counsel', at that _مشورہ_ would be more focussed on ''consultation'' than _صلاح_.

Although not the target language of this thread, Hindi seems to use _salaah_ very frequently unlike _mashwarah_ which I am not sure if it is ever used. I hope Wolverine9 that you can excuse me for this digression but I thought it may be interesting to you.

_نصیحت naSiiHat_ and _صلاح_ are not synonymous although they have a shared meaning. 

The difference, which comes promptly to my mind is that you can _صلاح لینا SalaaH lenaa_ but you can't _نصیحت لینا_ _naSiiHat lenaa_._ نصیحت_ is an advice or an admonition which is so to say, unsollicited for while both _مشورہ _ and _صلاح _can be requested.

These are my impromptu thoughts.


Edit: just saw W9's clarification about who was supposed to answer! Sorry if my post is redundant.


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## Qureshpor

Wolverine9 said:


> I meant you, QP.  Thanks for clarifying.  By the way, isn't it S and not s in _SalaaH _and _naSiiHat_?


In Roman, I don't go the "whole hogg" but I do know what letter is used in which word. I should not have bothered in replying because marrish SaHib's reply does full justice to your question. Oh well, can't win all the time! Also, I am too lazy to type in Urdu. I do admire Faylassof, Alfaaz and marrish SaaHibaan in this regard.


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## marrish

Even before having seen the last post of muHtaram Wolverine9 I had taken the fancy of capitalizing S! It was for Chhaatr SaaHib.

Just to clarify: H vs. h can be differentiated in Urdu but S vs. s is done very very rarely, or not at all. That is why we differentiate H and h but not S and s. It is Faylasoof SaaHib who takes the trouble of depicting all the letters.


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## Wolverine9

I appreciate both of your inputs, QP and marrish.  Thank you.


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## marrish

You're always welcome but I would like to request something from you this time because it is difficult to explain the meaning of nouns without any context. What I mean to request you is to provide some sentences, just as Chhaatr SaaHib did, to discuss it. It will be much clearer and easier and to the benefit of those who read this forum.


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## Chhaatr

Chhaatr said:


> Based on the above response, I would use these words as below.
> 
> "usne mujhe gaaRii dhiire chalaane kii hidaayat dii"
> 
> "usne mujhe hameshaa sach bolne kii nasiihat dii"
> 
> Is my understanding correct?



saaHibaan, I would like to draw your attention to the quoted post.  Can it be concluded from this discussion that the usage of these two words in this post is accurate?


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## Wolverine9

marrish said:


> You're always welcome but I would like to request something from you this time because it is difficult to explain the meaning of nouns without any context. What I mean to request you is to provide some sentences, just as Chhaatr SaaHib did, to discuss it. It will be much clearer and easier and to the benefit of those who read this forum.



"us ne mujhe zindagii kii naSiiHat (SalaaH) dii."

"us ne mere se SalaaH lii aur mujhe paise diye."

"jab maiN duusre mulk meN jaataa huuN, mujhe hidaayat-kaar kii zaruurat hotii hai."


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## Qureshpor

Chhaatr said:


> saaHibaan, I would like to draw your attention to the quoted post.  Can it be concluded from this discussion that the usage of these two words in this post is accurate?


They are fine Chhaatr Jii. Both sentences could have "kii" for "dii". As I said, "hameshah" and not "hameshaa".


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## marrish

Wolverine9 said:


> "us ne mujhe zindagii kii naSiiHat (SalaaH) dii."
> 
> "us ne mere se SalaaH lii aur mujhe paise diye."
> 
> "jab maiN duusre mulk meN jaataa huuN, mujhe hidaayat-kaar kii zaruurat hotii hai."


Let's write these sentences in Urdu's own script first.

_اُس نے مُجھے زندگی کی نـصِیحت (صلاح) دی۔
اُس نے میرے سے صلاح لی اور مجھے پیسے دئے۔
جب میں دوسرے مُلک جاتا ہوں، مجھے ہدایت کار کی ضرورت ہوتی ہے۔
_
Secondly, the first sentence is fine as far as the grammar is concerned. 
The second one should be changed in the following manner:
_اس نے مجھ سے صلاح لی اور مجھے پیسے دئے     یا  اُس نے مجھ سے صلاح لے کر پیسے دئے۔
__us ne mujh se SalaaH lii aur mujhe paise diye          or      us ne mujh se SalaaH le kar paise diye.
_
The third sentence is flawless with regard to the grammar.

Now about the usage of the nouns under consideration:

1) The sentence can be understood as ''S/he gave me advice* of (not ''on'') *life'' meaning ''S/he advised me to live (to choose life)''. What do other friends think?

Possibly it should be _us ne mujhe zindagii kii baabat (ek) nasiiHat (SalaaH) dii_.

2) _SalaaH _ has been used quite appropriately.

3) _hidaayat-kaar_ : Alfaaz SaaHib has explained already in his post #2 that hidaayat-kaar means ''a director''. Just to clarify, this is the kind of a director who directs films!

Please come up with a new version of the third sentence.


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## Wolverine9

Couldn't hidaayat-kaar be used for "guide"?  In other words, someone who guides a newcomer in a country (eg. tour guide).


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## marrish

Wolverine9 said:


> Couldn't hidaayat-kaar be used for "guide"?  In other words, someone who guides a newcomer in a country (eg. tour guide).


I'm afraid its meaning is reserved for ''director''.

I would go for _رہبر rahbar_ or the English loan-word _گائڈ gaa'iD_ without any hesitation.


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## Wolverine9

"mere dost ko dabistaan meN hidaayat kii zaruurat hai."


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## marrish

I think _hidaayat_'s use is alright. I am not sure what you meant by ''_dabistaan_''?


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## Wolverine9

_dabistaan _means school.


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## marrish

Please open a new thread to discuss it as it would be off-topic to do it here.


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## BP.

Chhaatr said:


> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii hidayat dii"
> "usne mujhe sahii rah pe chalne kii nasiihat dii"
> 1. Do "hidayat" and "nasiihat" both mean "advice" in the above sentences?
> 2. If these words have different meanings, could someone please give sample sentences to show the difference?
> Thanks!


Notwithstanding the number of replies already posted, here's a few simple translations you could remember:

_hidaayat _- guidance. FYI, _haadii _- guide.
_naSiiHat _- extreme sincerity and faithfulness. This word is often used in a sense it really doesn't mean i.e. as _pand_.


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## Wolverine9

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Notwithstanding the number of replies already posted, here's a few simple translations you could remember:
> 
> _hidaayat _- guidance. FYI, _haadii _- guide.
> _naSiiHat _- extreme sincerity and faithfulness. This word is often used in a sense it really doesn't mean i.e. as _pand_.



Platts has a different take.

P نصيحت _naṣīḥat_ (for A. نصيحة, v.n. fr. نصح 'to advise,' &c.), s.f. Advice, counsel, admonition, exhortation, precept;—reproof, reprimand;—chastisement:—_naṣīḥat-āmez_, adj. Mixed with good advice;—monitory, admonitory, moral:—_naṣīḥat-paz̤īr_, adj. Listening  to good advice:—_naṣīḥat denā_, or _naṣīḥat karnā_, v.t. To advise, counsel, admonish, exhort;—to reprove, reprimand; to chastise:—_naṣīḥat-gar_, or _naṣīḥat-go_, s.m. Adviser, counsellor, admonisher.

P پند _pand_, s.m. Advice, counsel, admonition; moral  maxim:—_pand-ār_, s.m. One who takes or listens to advice:—_pand-go_, s.m. Adviser, monitor.


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