# 什么时候 / 几时



## Seeda

I've learnt that 'when' in a question translates as 什么时候. E.g. 你是什么时候出生的？
However in the dictionary I stumbled upon the more simple word 几时 → 你几时回来？.
So I'm wondering--are they interchangeable? Is 几时 more informal?


----------



## ElGarcia

几时 is arguably more formal/poetic. It can be found in ancient/classical Chinese 文言文, e.g., 明月几时有（苏轼·水调歌头）
什么时候 is a modern expression can be used in both formal/informal situations.

The two basically mean the same thing but are often not interchangeable due to the different contexts.
今日一别，不知几时再重逢 => 今日一别，不知什么时候再重逢（awkward, the poetic rhythm is ruined）
等你回来（吃饭）得什么时候了？ => 等你回来得几时了？（weird in modern oral Chinese, maybe more common in some dialects?）

In some situations (mostly formal) either can be used.
我们什么时候才能吸取历史的惨痛教训？
我们几时才能吸取历史的惨痛教训？
Both are perfectly fine.

A synonym that is more interchangeable with 几时 is 何时。


----------



## dolmens

Yes. _几时 _is more formal and more traditional, mainly used in written languages.
Though it's widely used in part of south China, using it run the risk of not being understood by northern people, especially ones not highly-educated.


----------



## ElGarcia

dolmens said:


> using it run the risk of not being understood by northern people, especially ones not highly-educated.



The phrase is self-explanatory, although in oral conversation it might be misheard. Northern people do use it, sometimes in a dramatic tone (it appears a lot in traditional folk arts). It doesn't need much education to understand, just less common or colloquial in northern dialects or 普通话. Also it depends on the structure of the sentence. For example 你几时回来？ sounds better than my previous example 等你回来得几时了？


----------



## SuperXW

ElGarcia said:


> 几时……（weird in modern oral Chinese, maybe more common in some dialects?）


Yes. For example, Cantonese uses 几时 instead of 什么时候.


----------



## dolmens

Yes. 几时 几多, etc., there are many traditional words still widely used in contemporary Cantonese.


----------



## Seeda

Thanks for your replies!


----------



## iCreeps

什么时候 means "at what time"
"几时" is much less used, and can usually be substituted by 什么时候。
  so, no worry about finding the difference ~~~ 哈哈哈

Ask " at what time "
  often uses 什么时候  or 多会。多会 is mostly used in speaking because it has two words but 什么时候has 4 words.


----------



## Skatinginbc

苏轼: 明月几时有, 把酒问青天 ==> I know many people interpret 几时 as "什么时候", but I would rather interpret it as "多少时候, 多久" (as the 几时 in 《水浒传》二位兄弟在此聚义几时了?).  人有悲歡離合, 月有陰晴圓缺, 明月耀天能持續多久?  That question makes perfect sense, doesn't it?  I don't know why people think 明月是從什麼時候開始有的 is a good match for 人有悲歡離合, 月有陰晴圓缺.  

Anyway, 几时 does not always mean 何时 (什么时候).


----------



## retrogradedwithwind

青天有月来几时，我今停杯一问之

Maybe you are right skating


----------



## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 苏轼: 明月几时有, 把酒问青天 ==> I know many people interpret 几时 as "什么时候", but I would rather interpret it as "多少时候, 多久" (as the 几时 in 《水浒传》二位兄弟在此聚义几时了?).  人有悲歡離合, 月有陰晴圓缺, 明月耀天能持續多久?  That question makes perfect sense, doesn't it?  I don't know why people think 明月是從什麼時候開始有的 is a good match for 人有悲歡離合, 月有陰晴圓缺.
> 
> Anyway, 几时 does not always mean 何时 (什么时候).


I always thought it meant 明月什么时候有, not 明月是从什么时候开始有的, as the poet was asking about the schedule or the condition, not just for this time.
Although 多少时候 makes logical sense, it is not idiomatic in standard Chinese.

In 二位兄弟在此聚义几时了, 几时 definitely means 多久.
However, in 明月几时有, it seems to me 几时 can be easily replaced by 什么时候.

In your interpretations,
明月是*從*什麼時候*開始*有的
明月耀天*能持續*多久
The bold words were not mentioned in 明月几时有, maybe they are just your speculations? Maybe I've missed something, as I'm not quite familiar with classic Chinese literature.


----------



## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> In your interpretations, 明月是*從*什麼時候*開始*有的


It is not my interpretation. I was referring to interpretations like 明月从什么时候才开始出现的, "when did the bright moon first appear?", and "Bright moon, when did you appear?" (Note the past tense 'did' instead of the future tense 'will'). I was puzzled that so many people would interpret it that way.


SuperXW said:


> Although 多少时候 makes logical sense, it is not idiomatic in standard Chinese.


I copied it from 漢典. 多少时候 is listed as one of the definitions for 几时.


SuperXW said:


> 明月耀天*能持續*多久. The bold words were not mentioned in 明月几时有, maybe they are just your speculations?


明月几时有 ==> 明月有几时 ==> 明月有多久 ==> paraphrase 明月*能持續*多久. So, basically my argument was: 明月几时有 could be seen as a 倒裝 from 明月有几时.


SuperXW said:


> I always thought it meant 明月什么时候有, as the poet was asking about the schedule or the condition, not just for this time?


Of course, you could interpret it that way.  It was full moon when 苏轼 wrote the poem (词前小序: “丙辰中秋，欢饮达旦，大醉，作此篇，兼怀子由。”).  “转朱阁，低绮户” reflects the movement or constant changes of the moon, and so 明月*能持續*多久 is a fitting question.  明月何时再來, 明月都是何时出现的, well, do those questions go well with the rest of the poem?

My point is: 几时 has more than one definition.  It does not always mean 什么时候 and sometimes can be ambiguous (like 明月几时有).


----------



## SuperXW

I see. It is quite ambiguous in those cases.


----------



## Skatinginbc

几时 in Classical Chinese, if referring to 什么时候, is often associated with 望眼欲穿 or 等不及了.  To me, it is not a pure 什么时候 (e.g., 什么时候發生的 "When did it happen", Past Tense).  It is more like "還要等多久才會..." (Future Tense).  For example, 
宋苏轼《儋州》：荔枝几时熟，花头今已繁。==> 還要等多久荔枝才會熟? 我等不及了. 
《西游记》取经人几时方到？ ==> 還要等多久取经人才會到? 我等不及了.

My natural response to 你是几时出生的 (Past Tense) is 我是卯時生的.  The 几 in 几时 functions like the 几 in 几點(鐘).


----------



## ElGarcia

Skatinginbc said:


> 苏轼: 明月几时有, 把酒问青天 ==> I know many people interpret 几时 as "什么时候", but I would rather interpret it as "多少时候, 多久" (as the 几时 in 《水浒传》二位兄弟在此聚义几时了?).



Good point. I didn't think much when I use that as an example. 几时 definitely had multiple meanings in classic Chinese. In this case the interpretation might be debatable. I am also a bit surprised by people understanding it as 明月是*從*什麼時候*開始*有的. I think SuperXW's interpretation is a more popular one. My understanding is perhaps a combination of both meanings, i.e., 明月什么时候有 and （一月里/一年里/一生里/从古至今）月明能有多久. It is certainly a lament for uncertainty/changes, but in the case of the moon we all know it will always be there and always the same moon (suppose that 苏轼 knew this), unlike 几时 in 明媚鲜妍能几时（dead flowers are forever dead）. So it doesn't have to be 持续多久 for a certain full moon phase.


----------



## Skatinginbc

ElGarcia said:


> So it doesn't have to be 持续多久 for a certain full moon phase.


I absolutely agree.  明月有多少时候 is what I truly wanted to say, but since 多少时候 is not very idiomatic as SuperWX correctly pointed out, I paraphrased it as 明月能持续多久, which unfortunately fails to capture the full sense of 多少时候.
多少时候 does not have to be in a certain moon cycle, for instance, 人生在世能有多少月圓的日子/时候.


----------

