# Where the "not" goes?



## Eugens

Hola!
De repente se me apareció esta duda: dónde va el "not" en una oración que se refiere hipotéticamente a algo que no ocurrió en el pasado. Por ejemplo, si yo comí un sandwich y mi mamá me dice :"Podrías no haber comido un sandwich" (porque podrías haber comido la sopa que había en la heladera, por ej.) Cómo se diría en inglés: "You could have *not* eaten a sandwich."? Tengo esa duda porque sé que después de los "modal verbs" hay que poner un infinitivo, pero si el infinitivo tiene un "not" a continuación... sigue siendo un infinitivo? Aquí no se podría abreviar el "have not" a "haven't", no? Por lo menos a mí no me suena para nada... entonces cuál es la manera correcta de construir esa oración?
Desde ya, les agradezco cualquier aporte que me puedan dar sobre "this lingering doubt".


----------



## astronauta

"You could have *not* eaten a sandwich." es correcto


----------



## alc112

¿No es lo mismo si se dice "You couldn't have eaten a sandwich ?
O será por un tema de énfasis?


----------



## Eugens

alc112 said:
			
		

> ¿No es lo mismo si se dice "You couldn't have eaten a sandwich ?
> O será por un tema de énfasis?


 
No me parece que sean lo mismo. Si mi mamá me dijera: "You couldn't have eaten a sandwich!", se daría a entender que está enojada, quizá porque ella quería comerse el sandwich o lo estaba guardando para un invitado, o porque el sandwich estabá viejo y así expresa su sorpresa y preocupación. Mientras que con la oración "You could have not eaten a sandwich.", simplemente está expresando que yo tenía otras posibilidades de alimentos para elegir. O por lo menos... así lo veo yo.


----------



## jess oh seven

astronauta vegetariana said:
			
		

> "You could have *not* eaten a sandwich." es correcto


esta frase suena irónica o sarcástica, como si el hablante no quisiera que la persona comiese el sandwich (lo siento por mi gramática fatal). 

mejor dicho:
"You couldn't have eaten a sandwich" or
"You wouldn't have been able to eat a sandwich"

pero no entiendo muy bien el ejemplo que has dado del sandwich y la sopa. quieres decir que has comido el sandwich Y la sopa?!


----------



## Eugens

No!    What I had eaten is the sandwich. There was also a soup in the fridge but I didn't know it then, when I ate the sandwich. My mum would have preferred me to eat the soup (because it is healthier, e.g.), so when she notices what I had really eaten, she tells me, just to let me know, that I _had the possibility_ of eating something different. So she would say, in that situation: *You could have not eaten a sandwich*, you could have eaten something different, for eaxample, a soup." ?


----------



## jess oh seven

ooooh i see...
ok. well, then maybe you'd be better off using a different construction.

"you could've had something other than a sandwich" for example.

but that doesn't help you with your "not" question.


----------



## Eugens

Yes, that's exactly my problem! How do I construct that kind of sentence in negative?


----------



## Eugens

How do I say: "Podrías no haber comido un sandwich." in English.


----------



## xareni

segun yo esto no suena tan mal::you couldn't had something else than a sandwich 

pero no estoy segura , lo siento hago lo que puedo !!!!


----------



## Eugens

So, at the end, is the construction: *"You could have not (past participle).."* usually heard in that meaning I want to convey? I want to know especially the opinion of native English speakers, please?


----------



## neuwk

Definatly "You could not have eaten the sandwich" is correct "You could not have eaten the sandwich because I did"

"could not" can be shortened to couldn't as already mentioned.

You could always negate the sentance aswell so.. "No, You could not have eaten the sandwich because..." which creates a double negative but thats ok.


----------



## Bill Rich

Es certo la forma que usó. 

Ejemplo: "You had a choice. You could have chosen to do something or you could have chosen to not do anything."

Felicidades!

Bill


----------



## MarkLondres

"you could've had something other than a sandwich" 



			
				Eugens said:
			
		

> Yes, that's exactly my problem! How do I construct that kind of sentence in negative?


 
to construct this sentence in negative i think you have to make it into a question...

*"could you not have had something other than a sandwich?"* or *"couldn´t you have eaten anything other than a sandwich?"*


----------



## duder

I agree with Mark. "You could have not eaten a sandwich" is gramatically correct, but doesn't sound right in your example. Here is an example I made up where it sounds more natural:

John: I can't believe that I have gained so much weight lately.
Greg: I don't find it so hard to believe.
John: Why is that? I have been exercising and eating healthy foods.
Greg: Still, there are a lot of things that you could be doing differently. Take today's lunch, for example - *you could have not eaten a sandwich*. A salad would have been a better choice.


----------



## Eugens

Thank you all so much for your efforts! Especially thank you, duder: you understood exactly what the sense that was making me rack my brains was! lol


----------



## charmedboi82

Eugens said:
			
		

> Thank you all so much for your efforts! Especially thank you, duder: you understood exactly what the meaning I was racking my brain for was! lol



Don't worry, I thought that it sounded perfect.  I would just italicize the 'not' though (and maybe 'sandwich', too).

You could have _not_ eaten the _sandwich.

_Hehe, what's your linguistic background?


----------



## Eugens

charmedboi82 said:
			
		

> Don't worry, I thought that it sounded perfect. I would just italicize the 'not' though (and maybe 'sandwich', too).
> 
> You could have _not_ eaten the _sandwich._
> 
> Hehe, what's your linguistic background?


 
I can't figure out what you mean, Charmedboi82. What do you italicize "not" and "sandwich" for?


----------



## charmedboi82

Well, I think it would be very helpful in most circumstances to italicize 'not' because you say that word with special emphasis in the sentence.  In some cases, you could also emphasize sandwich by italicizing it.  Sometimes meanings are clearer is you italicize certain parts.  I would especially use the italics when you're trying to illustrate sarcasm.


----------



## Eugens

oh, yes, sure. I hadn't understood before what you meant because in the example that Dude used to describe the context where the phrase may appear, the phrase doesn't carry a sarcastic connotation. But I suppose that in some other contexts that kind of construction may carry a tinge of sarcasm.


----------



## encántame

Eugens - "You could have not eaten a sandwich" is not a natural English sentence.    A natural way to express this thought would be:  You didn't (did not) have to eat a sandwich, you could have eaten something else.
    Now if she was mad at you for always eating sandwiches, she might have said, "Couldn't you have eaten something else, instead of a sandwich?!"    While it is sometimes broken up in replies, like "I could NOT stand the thought of eating soup!", it is really not broken up in questions, but remains "Couldn't" to start off a question, at least in USA English.


----------



## Eugens

Neither did I intent to make the phrase sound sarcastic in the first context I drafted! (the one with the soup, etc. I just didn't make up the perfect situation to express what I wanted to express)
Anyway, my doubts regardind the construction have disappeared now.


----------



## Eugens

Oh! I posted that before reading your post, encantame!! Am I in trouble again???


----------



## Eugens

So, would you literally translate "you didn't have to eat a sandwich" as "podrías no haber comido un sandwich"?


----------



## Eugens

Because I just want the other person to notice the possibilities he/she had, I don't want to criticize him/her


----------



## Eugens

...and all this by using a negative sentence. Hmmm... maybe I am imposing too many conditions on my request since many sentences in a language can't be literally translate into another.


----------



## HollyH

Eugens said:
			
		

> So, would you literally translate "you didn't have to eat a sandwich" as "podrías no haber comido un sandwich"?



I would say, "no tenías que comer un sandwich."


----------



## alc112

Eugens,
Podés editar tus posts para evitar postear más mensajes. Sólo tenés que hacer click en el botón Edit, que está abajo a la derecha de cada post tuyo. Podés editar los posts tuyos que no tengan una semana de antigüedad


----------



## MarkLondres

Eugens said:
			
		

> How do I say: "*¿*Podrías no haber comido un sandwich*?*" in English.


 
Could you not have eaten a sandwich?

presuming the original was intended to be a question


----------



## Eugens

...and all this by using a negative sentence. Hmmm... maybe I am puting too many conditions on my request since many sentences of a language can't be literally translate into another . Well, the next time I want to express that kind of possibility in the past, I would use the phrase that encántame suggested or something similar... Thanks you all guys for your efforts!


----------

