# в чае, в чаю:



## eni8ma

So, having discovered the Locative, I now find a noun with two locative endings. Being quite a commonly used word, I am hoping someone can tell me when one form is used, rather than the other.

So far, I have found these examples:

Кофеина в чае больше, чем в кофе.
There is more caffeine in tea than coffee.

Не любил холодную пищу. Однажды вымочил кусочки селедки в чае.
He did not like cold food. He once soaked pickled herrings in tea.

Молоко в чае мешает похудению.
Milk in tea impedes weight loss.

ты мне в чаю приснись.
You're my (cup of) tea forever.

Обещания - что сахар в чаю
Promises - (to put) sugar in the tea (?)

I hope those are reasonable translations. Please understand that although corrections are appreciated, my primary question is this:
When do I use в чаю, and when в чае?

From these few examples, I get the impression that в чаю is used more particularly with actual cups of tea in mind, even if not directly stated.

 в чае seems to be more of a general comment on what is in tea - caffeine, having milk "in tea" as a practice; the chap who soaked his pickled herrings "in tea" seemed to do it as a general practice.

So - в чае - generality; в чаю - more specific, with cups of tea in mind?
Are there other common nouns that have two locative endings?


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## morzh

В чаю - I think it is low spoken form, or pertaining to those particular saying (which I am not even familiar with).

Usually - "в чае".

"Чаю" is used (with the obvious usage of dative) in Partitive. But not in locative/prepositional.

Also

"ты мне в чаю приснись.
You're my (cup of) tea forever."

THis is someone's pretty stupid poetry; there is no such saying or form.
And the translation does not make sense at all, if only for the reason of the phrase itself having no meaning.


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> Кофеина в чае больше, чем в кофе.
> There is more caffeine in tea than coffee. - correct
> 
> Не любил холодную пищу. Однажды вымочил кусочки селедки в чае.
> He did not like cold food. He once soaked pieces of pickled herring in tea. - correct
> 
> Молоко в чае мешает похудению.
> Milk in tea impedes weight loss. - correct
> 
> ты мне в чаю приснись.
> You're my (cup of) tea forever. - nonsense
> 
> Обещания - что сахар в чаю
> Promises - (to put) sugar in the tea (?) - incorrect usage, unless warranted by the stable expression which I personally am not familiar with.
> Also makes no sense from Russian point of view. (faulty logic or comparison)


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## eni8ma

Кофеина в чае больше, чем в кофе.
There is more caffeine in tea than coffee.

_Magazine article
_ 
Не любил холодную пищу. Однажды вымочил кусочки селедки в чае.
He did not like cold food. He once soaked pickled herrings in tea.

_An article talking about an academic._

Молоко в чае мешает похудению.
Milk in tea impedes weight loss.

_Title of a magazine article._

ты мне в чаю приснись.
You're my (cup of) tea forever.

_Title for a photo._

Обещания - что сахар в чаю
Promises - (to put) sugar in the tea (?)

_News headline - talking about empty promises to make sugar cheaper._


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## Maroseika

There are really words with two endings in Locative, and чай is one of them. Some of them just have different meanings:
В лесу (forest) много грибов - в этом лесе (timber) завелся грибок.
In other cases both variants are equal: газ, гной, гроб, дуб, дым, жир, клей, корм, край, крюк...
And in the most part of cases -e is bookish while -у is colloquial or obsolete:
аэропорт, берег, бережок, ад, бой, бред...
Totally there are about one hundred such nouns.
More details here in §§ 1182 and 1183.


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## eni8ma

morzh said:


> Usually - "в чае".
> 
> "Чаю" is used (with the obvious usage of dative) in Partitive. But not in locative/prepositional.



I can see that чаю is also dative, but в is not used for the Dative.
чаю is also Genitive Partitive, but в is not used for Genitive either.

Wiktionary lists both в чае, and в чаю as Locative.


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> I can see that чаю is also dative, but в is not used for the Dative.
> чаю is also Genitive Partitive, but в is not used for Genitive either.
> 
> Wiktionary lists both в чае, and в чаю as Locative.



Yes, you are right. Чаю can be Genitive (in the sense of Partitive), Dative or Instrumental (in the sense of Locative):
налить чаю;
дать чаю настояться;
намочить ватку в чаю.


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> There are really words with two endings in Locative, and чай is one of them.
> Totally there are about one hundred such nouns.



I know there are several nouns with Locative, and I have a list of common ones. However, the ones that were in the lists had one ending for о ~, and a different ending for в ~.

That made it easy to tell what ending to use.
e.g. год - year; Prep - о годе; Loc - в году

However, чай has two locative endings, so I was wondering which to use when.



Maroseika said:


> More details here in §§ 1182 and 1183.


Thanks - but I can't read Russian that well yet.


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> Yes, you are right. Чай can be Genitive (in the sense of Partitive), Dative or Instrumental (in the sense of Locative):
> налить чаю;
> дать чаю настояться;
> намочить ватку в чаю.



Isn't в only used for Accusative and Prepositional?
намочить ватку в чаю.  Isn't that Prepositional Locative?


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> However, чай has two locative endings, so I was wondering which to use when.


I recommend only -е. Another variant is very rare.



> Thanks - but I can't read Russian that well yet.


But still try. At least many nouns having two endings in locative are enumerated there, which you will easily notice - they are marked italics.


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> Isn't в only used for Accusative and Prepositional?
> намочить ватку в чаю.  Isn't that Prepositional Locative?


Yes, налить в чай is Acc.
Намочить в чаю is Locative (which is a part of Prepostional).

Acc. can be used without preposition as well: налить чай.


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## morzh

Maroseika said:


> Yes, налить в чай is Acc.
> Намочить в чаю is Locative (which is a part of Prepostional).
> 
> Acc. can be used without preposition as well: налить чай.




Add to this: locative, a sub-case of prepositional, changes the stress:

*В чаю́*

So it cannot be instrumental or dative (*ча́ю*). (instrumental, actually, cannot serve as locative in the first place - "*чаем*")

Same as "*и́з лесу - в лесу́/ по ле́су*"

Also, personally I never EVER encountered this usage, its potential existence notwithstanding.


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## eni8ma

Maroseika said:


> Accusative is used without any preposition: налить чай.
> Намочить в чаю is Locative (which is a part of Prepostional).



When I mentioned в with Accusative, I meant for nouns in general, e.g. в Москву  I wasn't suggesting that в чай would make any sense 



Maroseika said:


> I recommend only -е. Another variant is very rare.



Yes, I can see that there are fewer Google results for в чаю, but there are still quite a lot - about 14,700

So you only ever use в чае? в чаю is more old-fashioned?


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> When I mentioned в with Accusative, I meant for nouns in general, e.g. в Москву  I wasn't suggesting that в чай would make any sense
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I can see that there are fewer Google results for в чаю, but there are still quite a lot - about 14,700
> 
> So you only ever use в чае? в чаю is more old-fashioned?



*
В чаю́ *- I am not even sure about old-fashioned. Never saw it at all. Google, of course, find many things, but.....I'd recommend "*в ча́е*"


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> When I mentioned в with Accusative, I meant for nouns in general, e.g. в Москву  I wasn't suggesting that в чай would make any sense


But it has: положить сахар в чай.



> So you only ever use в чае? в чаю is more old-fashioned?


I think it is not old-fashioned but very colloquial. I also have never heard it.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> Add to this: locative, a sub-case of prepositional, changes the stress:
> 
> *В чаю́*


Yes, I just forgot to mention that in all (I cannot think of any exception) these words stress changes from stem to ending.


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## eni8ma

Большое спасибо.
спокойной ночи 

тут, 1 часу утром


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## Maroseika

eni8ma said:


> тут, 1 часу утром


Тут уже час ночи.
Ttime till 3 a.m. is usally ночь in Russian: 3 часа ночи, but 4 часа утра.


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## Natalisha

morzh said:


> *
> В чаю́ *- I am not even sure about old-fashioned. Never saw it at all.


Neither did I.


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## morzh

I can imagine some poetic use of it.

Say, someone wrote a verse:

Я долю горькую свою
Сегодня в водке утоплю.

And then he was promised a publication in some magazine, which has an anti-alcohol orientation, on one condition: vodka has to be out.

So he re-wrote it like so:

Я долю горькую свою
Сегодня утоплю в чаю.

This could possibly justify it


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