# Grüß Gott!



## CélineK.

Hello!
I would like to ask two things:
1. If the above phrase means "Greetings!" in English.
2. How to pronounce it.
I know no German at all so English responses would be preferred!
Danke!


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## martl

1. Yes it does  but it is only common in the southern areas of Germany (Bavaria, Frankonia, parts of Swabia), Austria and the German speaking part of southern Tyrolia (Italy). For some reason, it can still earn you a puzzled look or even a snappy remark in other areas. A more general greeting would be "Guten Tag", but that sounds very stiff and formal to people living in the "Grüß Gott" Areas 
2. Maybe someone more skilled in things like this can type it in IPA?
you can also test both the words "Grüße" (just skip the final "e") and "Gott" at dict.leo.org, they have sound files there to play.

Martl


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## starrynightrhone

Hi Celine,
you can listen to the pronunciation here. 

It is a very common polite greeting in all of Austria. Literally it means "greet God".


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## martl

starrynightrhone said:


> Hi Celine,
> you can listen to the pronunciation here.
> 
> It is a very common polite greeting in all of Austria. Literally it means "greet God".


Erm... not really. The correct meaning is/was "may god bless you".


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## starrynightrhone

Hahaha, what?????  

Where in "Grüß Gott" are you seeing that?


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## martl

starrynightrhone said:


> Hahaha, what?????
> 
> Where in "Grüß Gott" are you seeing that?


check Wikipedia  full meaning is "Grüße Dich Gott", it originates from the 19th century, and back then "grüßen" could also mean "to bless".


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## starrynightrhone

Oh, ok. But I wasn't talking about the origin of the word, I just said



> Literally it means "greet God".


 
Anyway, I learned something new


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## Toadie

If you're talking about a literary meanings, then yes, it is "Greet God", regardless of whether what Martl said is right or not (and I'm not saying I don't believe you.).  The literal meaning is a translation of exactly what you see.


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## martl

Toadie said:


> If you're talking about a literary meanings, then yes, it is "Greet God", regardless of whether what Martl said is right or not (and I'm not saying I don't believe you.).  The literal meaning is a translation of exactly what you see.


Well in this case it is a bit special because it is a phrase that has been preserved in the same shape for a long time, while the words changed meaning. In that case a good translator will honour that, and a literal translation would be wrong. A point where automated translation will possibly fail.

But i'll rest my case


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## Hutschi

martl said:


> check Wikipedia  full meaning is "Grüße Dich Gott", it originates from the 19th century, and back then "grüßen" could also mean "to bless".


 
Actually, only very view people know this. Folk etymology is strong and says "Grüß' Gott!"= "Grüße Gott!"="Greet God!".

When I was very young, in South Thuringia (Südthüringen, südlicher Thüringer Wald), there existed also the "Grüß Gott" greeting. The children often answered ironically "wenn'dn siehst" (when you meet him.) This was very unpolite and politically not correct, for sure.


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## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> Actually, only very view people know this. Folk etymology is strong and says "Grüß' Gott!"= "Grüße Gott!"="Greet God!".


I cannot believe this. All people I know are aware of the real meaning. No devout Catholic can honestly assume that it mean "Greet God!" as an imperative. That is absolute nonsense. The general educative level might be low, but not that low.

Kajjo


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## Hutschi

Kajjo said:


> I cannot believe this. All people I know are aware of the real meaning. No devout Catholic can honestly assume that it mean "Greet God!" as an imperative. That is absolute nonsense. The general educative level might be low, but not that low.
> 
> Kajjo


 
"Grüß Gott" is just a greeting now. I did not speak about Catholics. 
But even in the area where it was used, I never heard the origin neither in school nor outside when I was child. Later I moved to Saxony, and here this greeting was not used usually, but the "wenn'dn siehst" (when you see him) was known. 
I did not speak about devout Catholics, however.

I never heard it in school, during studying or later in radio or TV. I only recognized it when I started to study linguistics as hobby.

I'm in doubt, that outside of the "Grüß Gott" areas many know the origin. Inside - might be, they learned it.


There is a very similar old greeting: "Gott zum Gruße!" - What does this mean in this case?


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## floridasnowbird

Kajjo said:


> I cannot believe this. All people I know are aware of the real meaning. No devout Catholic can honestly assume that it mean "Greet God!" as an imperative. That is absolute nonsense. The general educative level might be low, but not that low.


 





I must admit that (until now) I had not known about the true meaning of "Grüß Gott" either. Besides Hutshi's educational level, mine seems to be subpar, too.​


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## Kajjo

floridasnowbird said:


> I must admit that (until now) I had not known about the true meaning of "Grüß Gott" either. Besides Hutshi's educational level, mine seems to be subpar, too.


But do you use this phrase? I agree that people from areas that do not use _Grüß Gott_ probably do not know the real meaning, but people from catholic areas cannot have missed the early religous education -- I really cannot imagine to use a phrase daily and intensively and thinking it means something different. Weird.

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

Immerhin ist Wikipedia der gleichen Ansicht: "Die ironischen Antworten von nicht bairisch Sprechenden auf ein „Grüß Gott“ wie „Wenn ich ihn sehe.“, „Wenn ich Zeit habe.“, “Welchen denn heute?“ oder „Hoffentlich nicht so bald.“ beruhen auf einem Missverständnis der Wortbedeutung." Ich gehe davon aus, daß dieser Gruß fast ausschließlich von leuten verwendet wird, die in Bayern, Österreich, Südtirol aufgewachsen sind und dem Dialekt mächtig sind, dem diese Wendung entstammt. Warum sonst sollte man einen derart religiösen Gruß verwenden?

Merkwürdige Welt, sage ich nur noch...

Kajjo


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## starrynightrhone

Kajjo said:


> But do you use this phrase? I agree that people from areas that do not use _Grüß Gott_ probably do not know the real meaning, but people from catholic areas cannot have missed the early religous education -- I really cannot imagine to use a phrase daily and intensively and thinking it means something different. Weird.


 
Actually you don't think about the meaning at all- you just use it. 

I am Catholic and "Grüß Gott" is for me the most common greeting for people who are not my family, friends or neighbours. Must tell you a lot about my educational level.


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## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> "Grüß Gott" is just a greeting now


Wurde denn zu Zeiten der DDR dieser Gruß bei Euch verwendet?

Kajjo


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## Hutschi

Er wurde zum Beispiel im Thüringer Wald verwendet, vor allem von älteren Leuten. In Dresden wurde er natürlich von Leuten aus anderen Gegenden verwendet.

In Haselbach (Gegend von Sonneberg) standen parallel: "Grüß Gott" und "Diener" (das letztere vom Dialekt her).

Die Kinder, denen "Hochdeutsch" gelehrt wurde, sollten "ordentlich" sprechen - und da hieß es dann "Guten Morgen!", "Guten Tag!" und "Guten Abend!".


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## Kajjo

Hutschi said:


> "Diener" (das letztere vom Dialekt her.)


Was soll das denn bedeuten?

 Kajjo


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## Hutschi

"Diener" bedeutet soviel wie "grüß Gott" oder "guten Tag". Es ist zumindest im itzgründischen Dialekt verbreitet.

Über die Etymologie weiß ich nichts genaues. Vielleicht ist es verwandt mit "stets zu Diensten" - vielleicht heißt es auch "Diener Gottes"? 

Jedenfalls war es der Standardgruß und wird auch heute noch verwendet. Als ich vor ein paar Jahren in der Gegend war, traf ich einen etwa acht- oder neunjährigen - mir völlig unbekannten - Jungen im Wald beim Spazierengehen, er begrüßte mich ganz freundlich: "Diener!" - da wusste ich, dass ich wieder daheim war.


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## floridasnowbird

Kajjo said:


> But do you use this phrase?
> Kajjo


 
Nein, nie! Bei uns völlig ungebräuchlich, und katholisch bin ich auch nicht.​


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## Kajjo

floridasnowbird said:


> Nein, nie! Bei uns völlig ungebräuchlich, und katholisch bin ich auch nicht.


So geht es mir auch. Dann brauchst Du Dir auch keine Gedanken über Dein Wissen oder Nichtwissen über _Grüß Gott_ zu machen!

Kajjo


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## Acrolect

Kajjo said:


> So geht es mir auch. Dann brauchst Du Dir auch keine Gedanken über Dein Wissen oder Nichtwissen über _Grüß Gott_ zu machen!



Warum machst du dir dann Gedanken über das Wissen oder Nichtwissen derer, die es verwenden. 

Grußformeln sind stark ritualisiert und damit sehr oft desemantisiert - das Wissen um die Funktion (also wann und zu wem) ist wichtig, das Wissen um die ursprüngliche Bedeutung (die ja nicht mehr vorhanden ist) ist schön, aber nicht notwendig für den kulturellen Fortbestand der Gemeinschaften, in denen der Gruß verwendet wird. Als BD XVI & Co würde ich mir vielleicht Sorgen machen (noch dazu, wo dialektal bei uns die Tendenz besteht, das _Grüß _auch zu eliminieren und nur mehr _sGott _oder gar _Gott_ zu sagen), aber sonst gibt's bedrohlichere Szenarien für das Abendland.


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## Kajjo

Acrolect said:


> [...]aber sonst gibt's bedrohlichere Szenarien für das Abendland.


Da hast Du nun wirklich recht!

Kajjo


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## Whodunit

Ich kannte die wahre Bedeutung auch nicht, deswegen kenne auch ich die scherzhafte Antworte _So weit fahre/gehe/komme ich (heute) nicht_.



Hutschi said:


> In Haselbach (Gegend von Sonneberg) standen parallel: "Grüß Gott" und "Diener" (das letztere vom Dialekt her).


 
Das entspräche _Servus_, lateinisch für _Diener/Sklave_.


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## Hutschi

Acrolect said:


> ...
> 
> Grußformeln sind stark ritualisiert und damit sehr oft desemantisiert ...


 
Das sieht man zum Beispiel auch an der Grußformel "Mahlzeit", die in Sachsen oft ohne direkten Bezug zum Essen verwendet wird.

"Guten Tag!" wird oft zu "'ntach" -> "...tach" verkürzt, das für sich genommen kaum noch die ursprüngliche semantische Bedeutung hat.

Ein umgekehrtes Beispiel:
Bilbo und Gandalf diskutierten und Gandalf versuchte, den Gruß semantisch zu erfassen:


> "Good Morning!" said Bilbo, and he meant it. ... But Gandalf looked at him ... "What do you mean?" he said. "Do you wish me a good morning,
> or mean that it is a good morning whether I want it or not; or that you feel good this morning; or that it is a morning to be good on?"


 (J.R.R. Tolkien, "The Hobbit")

Das ist nicht so sehr weit abseits zu den Antworten auf "Grüß Gott". Es ist ein ähnliches Prinzip.

Man könnte es übertragen:

"Grüß Gott", sagte Bilbo und er meinte es. Aber Gandalf schaute ihn an. "Wie meinst Du das?", fragte er. "Meinst Du, dass Gott mich grüßen solle, oder meinst du, dass ich Gott grüßen solle, ob ich es wolle oder nicht, oder dass er uns seinen Segen gab ..."


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## CélineK.

> at dict.leo.org, they have sound files there to play.


 
Unfortunately, there is no sound sample for the first word on this web page.

The other site I was given in this thread had no entries for this phrase either.

Am I right in thinking that the large character looking like a B takes the place of a double S?  So I could pronounce it "gruss got"?

Thanks for the hard work and educational discussion (from what I could understand!)!


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## starrynightrhone

CélineK. said:


> The other site I was given in this thread had no entries for this phrase either.


 
Celine, Acapela works, I even checked if they have the phrase before I gave you the link. Try again 

Martl's link to Leo works too, the only problem with that page is that it doesn't recognize conjugated words (try "Gruß" and "Gott" separately). Unfortunately Leo doesn't have the pronunciation for "Grüß Gott" as a phrase.


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## Aurin

CélineK. said:


> Unfortunately, there is no sound sample for the first word on this web page.
> 
> The other site I was given in this thread had no entries for this phrase either.
> 
> Am I right in thinking that the large character looking like a B takes the place of a double S? So I could pronounce it "gruss got"?
> 
> Thanks for the hard work and educational discussion (from what I could understand!)!


 
If you don´t have "ß" you can use "ss", the "ss" or "ß" are pronounced the same way. The previous vowel is shorter before "ss". The pronunciation of "ü" is as the French "u". There is no vowel in English to compare.


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## starrynightrhone

Aurin said:


> If you don´t have "ß" you can use "ss", the "ss" or "ß" are pronounced the same way. The previous vowel is shorter before "ss".


 
I tried that too, Aurin, it works in all variations.

It doesn't matter whether you type

"Grüß Gott"
"Grueß Gott"
"Gruess Gott"

Smart page


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## CélineK.

Merci Aurin!
French would be my comfort zone!  I think I've got it.
Merci aussi à starrynightrhone!


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## starrynightrhone

je t'en prie!


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## Whodunit

CélineK. said:


> Merci Aurin!
> French would be my comfort zone! I think I've got it.


 
Pronounce it as if it were _Grusse gotte_ in French. The R is exactly the same in German and French in this position.


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## AGATHA2

Kajjo said:


> und dem Dialekt mächtig sind,
> 
> Kajjo


 
 Ei, Kajjo jetzt kann ich aber nicht widerstehen: DES DIALEKTS MÄCHTIG SIND muß es im Hochdeutschen heißen


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## Hutschi

Eben hörte ich im Fernsehen folgende Begrüßung in einer Wissenschaftssendung, ohne jedes Problem:

Moderator: "Schönen Guten Abend!"
Professor: "Grüß Gott"!"


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## martl

Kajjo said:


> Was soll das denn bedeuten?
> 
> Kajjo



Den Gruß "Diener" kannte ich nicht. Aber das Bayerische "Servus" heißt ja nichts anderes  So fürchterlich katholisch ist "Grüß Gott" auch vieder nicht. Das verbreitete "Tschüss" kommt ja auch, wie "ade" oder  "tschö" vom französischen "Adieu", also "Gott befohlen".


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## Kajjo

martl said:


> So fürchterlich katholisch ist "Grüß Gott" auch wieder nicht.


Nun, aber der Sprachraum, der "Grüß Gott" verwendet, ist weit überwiegend katholisch. Eine gewisse Korrelation kannst Du da nicht abstreiten.

Kajjo


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## martl

Kajjo said:


> Nun, aber der Sprachraum, der "Grüß Gott" verwendet, ist weit überwiegend katholisch. Eine gewisse Korrelation kannst Du da nicht abstreiten.
> 
> Kajjo


Du hast natürlich recht, und auch die Wikipedia lehrt uns, dass der Gruß vor allem von der katholischen Geistlichkeit im 19. Jahrhundert propagiert wurde. (Sonderbarerweise ist er aber heute weder im Münsteraner noch im Kölnischen Raum geläufig, zwei katholischen Trutzburgen im Feindesland )

Ich würde den Gruß heute eher als "heimatverbunden" oder "traditionell" charakterisieren als als besonders katholisch oder gar als Ausdruck einer konservativen Grundeinstellung. 
Ein Blick auf die Diskussionsforen bei dict.leo.org zu dem Thema scheint ja zu zeigen, dass manche Leute da geradezu ein gesellschaftspolitisches Statement in die Verwendung Beantwortung oder Nicht-Beantwortung eines -in 99,9% der Fälle einfach als freundliche Floskel gemeinten- Grußes legen. 
Das scheint mir doch um Einiges über das Ziel hinausgeschossen 

Martl


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## gaer

Kajjo said:


> I cannot believe this. All people I know are aware of the real meaning. No devout Catholic can honestly assume that it mean "Greet God!" as an imperative. That is absolute nonsense. The general educative level might be low, but not that low.
> 
> Kajjo


Good grief, Kajjo. I've known "Grüß Gott!" for over two decades, but I never once thought about what it means. I'm not Catholic. I'm not religious.

What about countless people who may understand the greeting but who don't personally use it? 

Gaer


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## Kajjo

gaer said:


> Good grief, Kajjo. I've known "Grüß Gott!" for over two decades, but I never once thought about what it means. I'm not Catholic. I'm not religious.


My comment was only directed to native speakers of German regions where this word is traditionally and regularly used. My comment was never intended to be directed at foreigners or at native speakers of regions that do not actually use "Grüß Gott". I thought this intention was clear, but obviously it was not. Sorry.

Kajjo


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## Hutschi

martl said:


> ... Ich würde den Gruß heute eher als "heimatverbunden" oder "traditionell" charakterisieren als als besonders katholisch oder gar als Ausdruck einer konservativen Grundeinstellung.
> 
> Martl


 
I agree. But it took me a lot of years to do so.


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## starrynightrhone

martl said:


> Ich würde den Gruß heute eher als "heimatverbunden" oder "traditionell" charakterisieren als als besonders katholisch oder gar als Ausdruck einer konservativen Grundeinstellung.


 
Das ist für mich anders. Hier in Österreich ist "Grüß Gott" *fast die einzige* Variante jemanden zu begrüßen, mit dem man per Sie ist. Da es also im Grunde keine Alternative gibt, hat die Form auch überhaupt keine zusätzlichen sozialen Konnotationen.


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## Encolpius

Grüß Gott, 

 I read the whole thread but didn't find any answer to my questions. 
My question is:

1/ *From what age* do usually children use Grüß Gott when speaking to adults? 
2/ *From what age* do usually children/youth start using Grüß Gott when speaking to each other? 

Thanks a lot.


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## berndf

I can't see how this relates to age.


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## Encolpius

Yes, but I as a foreigner see.


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## evanovka

What a long discussion about a simple expression ... 
Personally I would agree that it is commonly known that it does not mean "greet God" (and anyone replying in this direction would be considered at least quite rude).

Encolpius: I would say it is very similar to regular siezen/duzen.
If you speak "real" dialect (and  not just Hochdeutsch in the Grüß-Gott-regions), you could say
_Griaß de Gott_ -> this is explicitly duzen (the _de_ meaning _dich_, I assume)
_Pfiad de Gott _-> similar, for saying good bye
You can use all kinds of abbreviations and variations... _griaß de_ is very common, which would translate to Hochdeutsch as _grüß dich_ (literaly _greet yourself _- rather nonsense  )


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## Robocop

evanovka said:


> ... _griaß de_ is very common, which would translate to Hochdeutsch as _grüß dich_ (literaly _greet yourself _- rather nonsense)


Well, the Swiss German "Grüezi" and (less used) "Grüessdi" (or even "Grüezdi") are *reduced *forms of "Ich *grüsse Sie*" (Grüezi) or, respectively, "Ich *grüsse dich*" (Grüessdi). I think this makes sense, after all.

Nachtrag zu "Grüss Gott" (hier gefunden):
"Grüß Gott" ist die verkürzte Form von "Grüß dich Gott" (Griaß di god) bzw. in der Mehrzahl "Grüß euch Gott" (Griaß eich god). 
So beruhen die ironischen Antworten von Norddeutschen auf ein "Grüß Gott" wie "Wenn ich ihn sehe" oder "Wenn Du ihn siehst" auf einem Missverständnis. Das Wort "grüßen" hatte nämlich ursprünglich auch die Bedeutung "segnen". Die zugrundeliegende Bedeutung von "Grüß (dich) Gott" ist somit "Gott segne Dich"."


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## Matamoscas

this discussion was very interesting for someone who enjoyed being "grüß Gott"ed when my wife of Austrian parentage took her family back to 'her roots'. I had always assumed that it meant God (be) with you.

But how could such an expression appear in the 19th century?  was it a benediction brought about by fear of 1848s all over Europe threatening the Hapsburgs?  and Kajjo, while I find it equally strange that it has lost its real meaning, who in the English speaking world now knows what Christ Mass/Christmas or _Good_ Friday refer to -  the Holy Day/holiday celebrated 'because by His cross and resurrection he has redeemed the world?? hardly'


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## evanovka

robocob: bin völlig einverstanden - das mit dem nonsense war eher ironisch gemeint 

One more thing about siezen / duzen when using Grüß Gott: 
you can of course also say _Griaß Eahna Gott_ for the formal form.

(Now this is clearly dialect, and as I write this, what comes to my mind is a small town close to the mountains, a lady at the bakery saying _Griaß Eahna Gott Frau Bürgermeister, hams scho gheart wos mit am Huaba Bauer seim Hof gschegn is?_  ... if you use this as a foreigner, you will look in quite puzzled faces, I'd bet   too far off topic, sorry  )


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## sokol

Robocop said:


> Well, the Swiss German "Grüezi" and (less used) "Grüessdi" (or even "Grüezdi") are *reduced *forms of "Ich *grüsse Sie*" (Grüezi) or, respectively, "Ich *grüsse dich*" (Grüessdi). I think this makes sense, after all.


Once I was in Bern with locals from Kanton Bern who very emphatically insisted that in Bärndütsch (= dialect of Bern) it _has _to be only *Grüessdi* (duzen) or *Grüessech *(= siezen), Grüezi for them was "not Bärndütsch", and they associated it first and foremost with Zurich (there's an old rivalry between the two towns, for those who aren't familiar with the Swiss situation).

In Austrian dialect the forms are quite similar to the ones of Bavaria mentioned by evanovka; basically in Austrian & Bavarian dialect there is:
*Grias di (Gott)* = duzen
*Grias eng (enk) (Gott)* = siezen ("old" form of siezen which is slowly coming out of use in some dialect regions where it becomes replaced with _"Grias eich")_ or also speaking to more than one person (both duzen/siezen)
*Grias eana (Gott)* = siezen ("new" form of siezen from third person plural like German standard; old dialect speakers in Mühlviertel - where I grew up - hardly ever did use it, but it is becoming more common now; also possible would be "Grüss sie" in urban regions, pronounced like that and never with the addition of "Gott")



Matamoscas said:


> this discussion was very interesting for someone who enjoyed being "grüß Gott"ed when my wife of Austrian parentage took her family back to 'her roots'. I had always assumed that it meant God (be) with you.


It is correct what was said above - for dialect speakers it isn't really meaning "God be with you" anymore even though this was the origin, and further this greeting mostly is used without "Gott" _(Grias di _etc.)

The form _with "Gott" _is - in Austria - mainly used by children whose parents begin to learn them to greet regularly (this goes especially for rural regions, see further below) and also if you are hiking (mountain hiking, mountain climbing) and meet people there: in that case it is proper etiquette in Austria to greet each other, and what is used very frequently in this case (even by people - e. g. urban people, see below - who elsewhere never would use it) is "Grüss Gott"; it seems that in the mountains different linguistic rules apply. 
Also it is a fact that priests especially enjoy a heartily "Grüss Gott": it is not so as the literal meaning were completely "lost" to the population, it's only that this is not at all what people think of when using it, in rural regions.

In *urban *regions however, at least in Austria, this is certainly *not *so. Many people in Vienna and Graz (and surroundings, and to a lesser degree other cities) never would say "Grüss Gott" in whatever form (except when hiking in the mountains for _some _of them) because they indeed identify it with the Church. This especially goes for people who vote for middle-left parties, but I do know quite some conservatives who similarly never would "greet God" like that; it just seems to not be_ en vogue_ in urban culture here in Austria.
And some middle-leftists even emphatically are against even being greeted with "Grüss Gott"; for example I do know a social democrat, politically very active (but on low level ranks), who, if greeted "Grüss Gott", will answer "Freundschaft" which is the old socialist greeting (and not used much nowadays).

The Austrian situation probably is special; it may at least concerning urban greeting rites go back to the Civil War of 1933/34 where Christ Democrats (= then almost fascist) and Social Democrats (= then strictly Socialist) fought against each other.


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## berndf

Encolpius said:


> Yes, but I as a foreigner see.


 
Than let me be a bit more direct. There is no age-related etiquette about the use of the expression. 

Maybe you are referring to the reduction of "Grüß Dich Gott" to "Grüß Dich". The story there is that in Bavarian and Austria "Grüß Dich Gott" (or "Grüß Sie Gott" or "Grüß Gott" or dialectal variations) is a salutation which is formally required or expected in certain contexts. Children are therefore taught to use the complete form (See Sokol's post). As they grow older they do what their parents are doing as well, namely to reduce it to "Grüß Dich" or dialectal variants thereof. The shortened form "Grüß Dich" is also used in other regions (for the peculiarities of Swiss usage, see Robocop's explanation) but never rarely the complete form.


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## EvilWillow

Encolpius said:


> 2/ *From what age* do usually children/youth start using Grüß Gott when speaking to each other?


I don't think they ever do because "Grüß Gott" is quite formal. Youngsters among themselves use "Grüß dich" or "Servus" as typically Bavarian expressions or the universal "Hallo", "Hi"...


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## Hutschi

EvilWillow said:


> I don't think they ever do because "Grüß Gott" is quite formal. Youngsters among themselves use "Grüß dich" or "Servus" as typically Bavarian expressions or the universal "Hallo", "Hi"...


 
"Hallo" and "Hi" are not so universal. They are very dependend on age and social status.

My father nether used or accepted "Hallo". 
"Hi" is almost only in the youth language, if used. 

I do not know about regional differences, but think there are.

When thinking about, there is no region-neutral phrase at all, and if there is, it is not age-neutral or group-neutral.


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## sokol

Encolpius said:


> 1/ *From what age* do usually children use Grüß Gott when speaking to adults? When they are told to. Also by the way some teachers insist on being greeted "Grüss Gott" while others don't.
> 2/ *From what age* do usually children/youth start using Grüß Gott when speaking to each other?  Never. School kids and the youth never will use this when talking to each other in an informal way.


The last posts put my attention back to the original question.

Clearly point 2.) never happens: kids don't greet each other with "Grüss Gott"; while (also something I only now remembered) some teachers insist on being greeted like that - e. g. when I was in primary school, late 70ies, this was the case, and our loud and unison greeting to the teacher sounded approximatley like:
/grüüüüüüs kottt!/
Which sounds* reeeally verrrrry funny* now that I'm thinking back. 

_(Servus_, by the way, as a greeting is used very frequently in Austria and quite often in Bavaria; to my knowledge it is not used further north and west in the German speaking region.)


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## Encolpius

sokol said:


> _(Servus_, by the way, as a greeting is used very frequently in Austria and quite often in Bavaria; to my knowledge it is not used further north and west in the German speaking region.)




So Hallo is never used? And what do people in Austria use like Bye-bye? I don't think Tschüss, because it sounds Northern.


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## sokol

Encolpius said:


> So Hallo is never used? And what do people in Austria use like Bye-bye? I don't think Tschüss, because it sounds Northern.


Oh, but certainly it is. Even _Tschüss _is used - strangely, Tschüss mainly is used by Austrian dialect speakers and only rarely by standard speakers who prefer other greetings (standard speakers even prefer _Servus _over _Tschüss_, in my opinion), probably because speakers of Austrian standard language are more aware of the dichotomy between German and Austrian standard language (which is less important for dialect speakers who put the focus on their dialect).

I didn't mention it because it isn't exactly topic here.


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## chicoetereo

I know is such a stupid thing, but I would like to know if this Bavarian expresion it is said as a "hello" or as a "good bye"...

Thank you in advance!!


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## Sidjanga

Hi chicoetereo, and welcome to the forum!

"_Gr*ü*ß Gott_" is used as a greating (hello), not to say good bye.

And it is _the _normal thing to say, not only among elderly people, as some friends of mine from other regions thought. 

Saludos


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## Hutschi

As far as I know it is also used by people who do not believe in god and it is neutral in this area. In other regions it is loaded with religious connotation and mostly replaced with "Guten Tag" or others.


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## Sidjanga

Hutschi said:


> As far as I know it is also used by people who do not believe in god and it is neutral in this area. ...


Yes, absolutely. 
As I said, it is _the _normal thing to say; everybody says it, and it doesn't have any religious connotations whatsoever.

Actually, if you say "Guten Tag" there, people will immediately know that you are from elswhere - or that you have at least lived somewhere else for a while and are maybe having some difficulties readjusting.


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## Janpiet

Keinesfalls darf man in dem Gebirge diesen Gruß beantworten mit 'so hoch gehen wir leider nicht'.


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## Sidjanga

Janpiet said:


> Keinesfalls darf man in dem Gebirge diesen Gruß beantworten mit 'so hoch gehen wir leider nicht'.


Das ist in der Tat eine Anwort, die man häufig von "Preußen" (bayerisch für "Leute von nördlich von Bayern) zu hören bekommt - wenn allerdings eher '_So weit rauf _[_hinauf_]_ wollten wir eigentlich nicht (gehen)'._

Aber "dürfen".., klar, warum nicht; nur lachen wird darüber wohl kaum jemand, für den "Grüß Gott" der normalste Gruß der Welt ist (und diese Antwort darauf leider tatsächlich ziemlich häufig und abgedroschen...).


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## berndf

Eine weitere "preußische" Antwort auf "Grüß Gott" ist "Wenn ich ihn sehe!"

Dies ist natürlich ein (bei gebildeten Norddeutschen sicher bewusstes) Misverstehen des Ausdruckes. Er ist eine Abkürzung von "Grüß Dich Gott" und "Grüß" ist Konjunktiv Präsens und nicht Imperativ. Ursprünglich bedeutete "grüßen" "segnen" und diese Bedeutung wird hier verwandt.


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## Sidjanga

berndf said:


> ... Dies ist natürlich ein (bei gebildeten Norddeutschen sicher bewusstes) Misverstehen des Ausdruckes. Er ist eine Abkürzung von "Grüß Dich Gott" und "Grüß" ist Konjunktiv Präsens und nicht Imperativ. Ursprünglich bedeutete "grüßen" "segnen" und diese Bedeutung wird hier verwandt.


(Ersteres möchte ich doch hoffen ).

Und eigentlich war es sogar _"Grüß*e* Dich Gott"_ oder natürlich auch _"Grüße Sie Gott"_.

Man hört das auch heute noch - mit Sie und du -, und sogar relativ häufig, besonders von "richtigen" (über Generationen alteingesessenen) Bayern,  allerdings ohne "-e".
.


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## Geo.

Sidjanga said:


> Hi chicoetereo, and welcome to the forum!
> 
> "_Grüß Gott_" is used as a greating (hello), not to say good bye.
> 
> And it is _the _normal thing to say, not only among elderly people, as some friends of mine from other regions thought.
> 
> Saludos


 
I'm a little reluctant to admit this, being no authority on German, but in my mother's family, (Swiss, _but originally from Austria-Hungary_), we would have said *„Grüß Gott!“* to mean _*both 'hello' & 'good-bye'*_, although _when parting *„Pfia Gott!“* (d.h. „Behüte dich / euch Gott!“) would have probably been said more often_ than _„Grüß Gott!“. _

(Conversely, we would have been less inclined to say_* „Servus!“*_ to mean _'hello'_; rather more inclined to use it to mean _'good-bye'_). 

_In the case of both *„Grüß Gott!“* and *„Servus!“* however, they *were* used for both *'hello' or 'good-bye'* in the German spoken by my mother's parents. _

I've an old German–English Cassell's Dictionary — the German printed in Fraktur — and it notes the following: *„Grüß Gott!“* (colloquial) _greetings, or farewell. _

Could anyone — _perhaps from the south, or Austria in particular_ — comment on whether the usage I have described sounds sub-standard, or perhaps antiquated? 

Thanking you in advance: _*Danke vielmals!*_


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## Sidjanga

Geo. said:


> Could anyone — _perhaps from the south, or Austria in particular_ — comment on whether the usage I have described sounds sub-standard, or perhaps antiquated?


Hi Geo,

What you're saying is really interesting to know, but I myself have never heard _Grüß Gott_ used to say "good bye." So to me, it doesn't soudn "sub-standard" or "antiquated" or something, I've simply never head it used that way, and if I heard it, it would simply sound out of place.
I grew up and lived for some 30 years basically in the southern half of Bavaria - basically in the Allgäu and Munich (though my parents' families originally came from elsewhere) - and we frequently went to Austria.

As for _Servus_, from my experience it is used more often to say _bye _rather than _hi_, but that's certainly a reagional question.


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## Gernot Back

I'm not a southerner, but I suppose that the usage of "_Grüß Gott_" as "_good-bye_" works in the same way as the usage of "_Guten Tag_" would do in that context: It is all but sub-standard, just the contrary, and it can be a euphemistic alternative of saying "_Auf Nimmerwiedersehen!_" (piss off!).

cf.: http://de.nntp2http.com/etc/sprache/deutsch/2006/09/e3ea7bbda12b38b2c4512c1f338bc52e.html


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## Helefant

Indeed I heard it for saying 'goodbye', even if it's not very usual. I thought that it would be used also in the south of Bavaria, in the end I'm not really sure.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grüß_Gott


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## sokol

Geo, I am Austrian and I can confirm that "Servus" is frequently used for both saying "hello" and "good-bye".

However, "Grüss Gott" is at least in our times only used for saying "hello", it's the counterpart of "Pfiat Gott": you say "Grüss Gott" (in dialect: "Griass Gott") for greeting and "Pfiat Gott" for parting (the latter is only dialect, it does not exist in standard language, or rather - if you use it in standard language speech you'll use "Pfiat Gott" = the dialect spelling; nobody ever would use "behüt euch Gott", not even in standard language).

But as your mother's family left Austria-Hungary so long ago it is not impossible that use then differed slightly: possibly people then used "Grüss Gott" rarely for parting in formal contexts instead of "Pfiat Gott", which of course it is just a wild guess; but you should also take into consideration that possibly English language influenced the use of German idioms of your mother, meaning that your use of "Grüss Gott" possibly might be a result of English influence.

Whatever be the case, to use "Grüss Gott" for parting is not really modern Austrian use (despite the fact that Wiki says it may be used for parting too; but I would consider that not rare but rather extremely rare ). I guess you could use it for parting without being stared at, but it is not what we do on a daily basis.


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## Geo.

Originally from: Re: Ending a letter/whatever - God Bless (you)


sokol said:


> Yes indeed, but while it would be considered _*very*_ unusual to say to somebody "Gott segne dich" in German (well, you would expect it from a priest, but apart from that?) it is fairly common to use "God bless you" in English, or at least when use in American films corresponds at least partially to language use in reality.
> 
> So both "Gott segne dich" and "God bless you" are not even close equivalents - they're extremely different concerning use, even though they're perfect literal and idiomatic translations.
> 
> If you sign a letter in German with "Gott segne dich!" then the recipient of this letter surely would be extremely perplexed.
> So one cannot recommend it as a translation in this context. You'd rather should use some very general phrase like "alles Gute" or whatever comes to mind.


 
And I agree with you, Sokol, in both instances cited — _*„Gott segne dich“* &* „Behüt dich Gott!“* ... and add to that* „Gott schütze Dich!“*_ — all sound unusual, to say the least. (If a soldier were leaving for the War, I could see his mother calling out something like that, as the troop-train pulled away _... maybe? ... but only then)._ However, here is an example of where we would have said _*„Grüß Gott!“* to mean 'Good-bye', and in this sense, a form of 'God bless you' as well. _At the end of a letter, to a family member: 
_Ade u. Grüß Gott, meine gute Tante Anna! _
_Ich bin Dein lieber Neffe, Jorg, _
_Schone Dich! ... papa _​I admit, in the above, which I wrote as an example, „Grüß Gott!“ could have been replaced with „Pfia' Gott!“; (we usually leave out the terminal 't' from 'Pfiat' in my family). 

I would translate the above as: 
Good-bye & God bless, Aunt Ann, 
Your nephew, Georgie
Take care ... xox ​Admittedly, „Mit freundlichen Grüßen“, or „Hochachtungsvoll“, are more standard closings on a letter, but the example I cited above would be limited to intimate or familial letters alone. 

... and admittedly, German is not the language of my education, and I do not claim to be any authority. Some of what I say or how I think to say it, may well reflect my lack of formal education in German with a pernicious English influence ... whilst at other times, I might be inclined to an older form of spelling or turn of phrase, from the days of the k.u.k., and which to-day sounds comically formal, as if Schönbrunnerdeutsch. (Although, my best friend's mother — a wealthy Berlinerin who held a teaching degree in German literature — seemed to think it more likely that I was just an illiterate feral-child who fell off the back of a gypsy-caravan somewhere in the Böhmerwald).


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## sokol

Geo. said:


> ... _*„Gott segne dich“* &* „Behüt dich Gott!“* ... and add to that* „Gott schütze Dich!“*_ — all sound unusual, to say the least. (If a soldier were leaving for the War, I could see his mother calling out something like that, as the troop-train pulled away _... maybe? ... but only then)._


_
Yes, maybe then it would be felt appropriate. (It is a context I am not at all familiar, after all only very few Austrian soldiers still leave to fight in a war - only those which are fighting for e. g. the French Foreign Legion.)

_


Geo. said:


> However, here is an example of where we would have said _*„Grüß Gott!“* to mean 'Good-bye', and in this sense, a form of 'God bless you' as well._


_
An interesting example - even though I feel it is very unusual to use "Grüss Gott" as a good-bye, it doesn't look out of place here.
Mind, I wouldn't use it myself, not even in this context, but I would not call this use "un-idiomatic" - possibly a little bit old-fashioned, but thinking about it I would rather have the impression that this is use of another region (a regional use I'm not familiar with, after all "Grüss Gott" still is fairly widespread among the German speaking community, even used still in big parts of Germany).



Geo. said:



			Admittedly, „Mit freundlichen Grüßen“, or „Hochachtungsvoll“, are more standard closings on a letter, but the example I cited above would be limited to intimate or familial letters alone.
		
Click to expand...

Indeed, those would be definitely too formal for a letter of private nature.



Geo. said:



			... whilst at other times, I might be inclined to an older form of spelling or turn of phrase, from the days of the k.u.k., and which to-day sounds comically formal, as if Schönbrunnerdeutsch.
		
Click to expand...

This also is a possibility - that in your 'family German' you might have preserved older, now dated phrases and use of words. _


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## Aloski

An der Grundschule meines Sohnes ( Simbach am Inn, gegenüber von Braunau in Österreich)
steht in der Eingangshalle der Schule eine künstlerisch gestaltete Tafel, darauf steht seit einiger Zeit:
"Grüß Gott"  und parallel dazu  "Guten Morgen". Man erinnert die Schüler daran freundlich zu sein und zu grüßen. 
Man gibt also den Kindern eine Alternative, zwei Optionen, man läßt ihnen eine sprachliche Wahl. 

Ich selbst sage häufig "Hallo" zur Begrüßung (naja, ich wohnte viele Jahre in GB).


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