# All Slavic languages: krasný/krasotka



## Tagarela

Ahoj,

I am writing this thread after noticing something interesting in a Mikasa's, our Italian fellow, message:

She asked for the translation, from Russian, of   *Privet krasotka* (...) and it seems to be _Ciao, belissima_, in Italian.
 Well, it really called my attention, because *KRASotka* and the translation belissima (  something like: ~ _beautiful lady_) reminds me of krasný. I've read that krasný used to mean beautiful in Russian, and that's where the name _Красная площадь (Red Square) _came from, originally meaning _Beautiful square._
In Czech, krasný still used for beautiful. By the way, in the film Kolja there's a joke between the meaning of krasný in both, Czech and Russian, languages.

So, if *krasotka* is really related to *krasný*, as it seems, does it mean that Russian maintained the original meaning of the root in some words?  

How about in other Slavic languages?

*I do not speak Italian, but I could have an idea of the word because of Portuguese. 

Na shledanou.:


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## scythosarmatian

Tagarela said:


> So, if *krasotka* is really related to *krasný*, as it seems, does it mean that Russian maintained the original meaning of the root in some words?
> 
> quote]
> 
> 
> There ARE certain set expressions wherein that meaning was retained. Красна девица, for example, is still around, but its use is considered poetic nowadays and is limited to folklore.


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## Setwale_Charm

scythosarmatian said:


> Tagarela said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, if *krasotka* is really related to *krasný*, as it seems, does it mean that Russian maintained the original meaning of the root in some words?
> 
> quote]
> 
> 
> There ARE certain set expressions wherein that meaning was retained. Красна девица, for example, is still around, but its use is considered poetic nowadays and is limited to folklore.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are forgetting about "Krasnaya Plotschad"
Click to expand...


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## Thomas1

The word that is still in common use in Russian and is built upon _красная _is _пре__красная_. See here for some more info.


I can't think of an example that's commonly used in Polish.

Tom


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## robin74

Thomas1 said:


> I can't think of an example that's commonly used in Polish.


Well, these may not be very commonly used, but Polish has _krasa_ (beauty) and _krasawica_ (beautiful girl), as well as _krasomówca_ (orator).
And then there's also _krasnoludek_ (dwarf) but from what I understand its etymology is unclear.


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## .Jordi.

Also in a frase: _W pełnej krasie. _


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## Tagarela

Ahoj



.Jordi. said:


> Also in a frase: _W pełnej krasie. _



What does it mean (in English, Portuguese, Spanish)?

Na shledanou.:


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## .Jordi.

Tagarela said:


> What does it mean (in English, Portuguese, Spanish)?



Olá Tagarela,

_w pełnej krasie_ significa más o menos _en toda la plenitud_, literalmente - _en toda la hermosura_. Espero que te sirva de algo mi explicación.

Saudação


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## dudasd

Both _krasny_ (red) and _krasiviy _(beautiful) seem to be of the same root *kras (from IE *ker - to burn), that originally meant light of the fire, and then diverged to the meanings of "red" and "dazzling, amazing, beautiful". Old Slavonic word _kres _is alive even nowadays, meaning traditional bonfires or torches that are lit on some paganiic-related festivities); also word _kresnica - _1) sparkle; 2) firefly (I am using Serbian versions, but they are recognizable). Robin74 gave a very interesting word:



robin74 said:


> And then there's also _krasnoludek_ (dwarf) but from what I understand its etymology is unclear.


 
The most famous dwarves in old Slavic mythology were certainly "domaći" (I am not sure how they are called in other Slavic languages); small people dressed in red, who live in the hearth fire. Sometimes they are mischievious, but generally they were believed to protect home. "Krasnoludek" - as much as I understand - means "Small red man", and probably refers to the dwarves I've just described.


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## arwyn

dudasd said:


> Both _krasny_ (red) and _krasiviy _(beautiful) seem to be of the same root *kras (from IE *ker - to burn), that originally meant light of the fire, and then diverged to the meanings of "red" and "dazzling, amazing, beautiful". Old Slavonic word _kres _is alive even nowadays, meaning traditional bonfires or torches that are lit on some paganiic-related festivities); also word _kresnica - _1) sparkle; 2) firefly (I am using Serbian versions, but they are recognizable). Robin74 gave a very interesting word:
> 
> The most famous dwarves in old Slavic mythology were certainly "domaći" (I am not sure how they are called in other Slavic languages); small people dressed in red, who live in the hearth fire. Sometimes they are mischievious, but generally they were believed to protect home. "Krasnoludek" - as much as I understand - means "Small red man", and probably refers to the dwarves I've just described.



Always wondered about the different meanings, thank you very much for the explanation.


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## Thomas1

robin74 said:


> Well, these may not be very commonly used, but Polish has _krasa_ (beauty) and _krasawica_ (beautiful girl), as well as _krasomówca_ (orator).
> And then there's also _krasnoludek_ (dwarf) but from what I understand its etymology is unclear.





.Jordi. said:


> Also in a frase: _W pełnej krasie. _


Well, to me from all these _W pełnej krasie._ is what you can most likely come across in modern Polish, or _krasnoludek_ if you have contact with children. Anyway, as already mentioned they aren't much common.



.Jordi. said:


> Olá Tagarela,
> 
> _w pełnej krasie_ significa más o menos _en toda la plenitud_, literalmente - _en toda la hermosura_. Espero que te sirva de algo mi explicación.
> 
> Saudação


Pienso que tambien puede traducirlo como _en todo el esplendor_.



dudasd said:


> [...]
> The most famous dwarves in old Slavic mythology were certainly "domaći" (I am not sure how they are called in other Slavic languages); small people dressed in red, who live in the hearth fire. Sometimes they are mischievious, but generally they were believed to protect home. "Krasnoludek" - as much as I understand - means "Small red man", and probably refers to the dwarves I've just described.


Thanks for this info. It has never occurred to me to think about that, but when I read your post I rememered all _krasnoludki_ from my childhood and their distincitve trait was that they all had something red on them, for example, trousers, boots, etc. They were also small. 

Tom


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## Tagarela

Ahoj,

Gracias Jordi., sí, tu explicación está muy buena para mí, Thomas gracias también a tí. 

Now this red x beautiful thing really makes sense. Thank you dudasd! 

Na shledanou.:


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## mietagosia

In Polish there is an adjective "kraśny" which is quite old-fashioned. It used to mean "beautiful" in the past, as well as "vivid, glowing" (about an easily noticeable colour that sticks out). I still hear it in both of those contexts, used by my parents and grandma. The sjp.pl dictionary of Polish language also gives the word the significance of "greasy/fatty" though I never heard it used with that meaning. 

Cheers,
MietaGosia


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## Natabka

Wow! Dudasd, respect for a really professional explanation! (#9)

In Ukrainian there is also a word for beautiful with similar root - "*крас*ивий (m), *крас*ива (f)", you can also say "*крал*я", "*крас*уня" (very pretty lady) or "*крас*уватися" (usually, about a girl who knows she's beautiful and looks at herself in the mirror; to stand in beauty or even to show off). But there's no - at least no obvious - relation to "red" ("*черв*оний"). Though in folklore (cf. post #2) this word is often collocated with those that mean "bright", e.g. "ясна-красна (весна)" when talking about spring, for example.


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## .Jordi.

mietagosia said:


> In Polish there is an adjective "kraśny" which is quite old-fashioned. It used to mean "beautiful" in the past, as well as "vivid, glowing" (about an easily noticeable colour that sticks out). I still hear it in both of those contexts, used by my parents and grandma. The sjp.pl dictionary of Polish language also gives the word the significance of "greasy/fatty" though I never heard it used with that meaning.



You've remind me that we also do have such a words derivated from _krasa_ (I suppose they are) like _okrasa_ and _okrasić _(both are related somehow with the significance of greasy/fatty), which are still in use, although not so frequent.


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## Natabka

.Jordi. said:


> You've remind me that we also do have such a words derivated from _krasa_ (I suppose they are) like _okrasa_ and _okrasić _(both are related somehow with the significance of greasy/fatty), which are still in use, although not so frequent.


 
Oh, in Ukrainian we have these words too! But they are not archaic and have no other connotations except "beautiful": _окраса_ (noun), _прикрашати_ (verb).


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## .Jordi.

Natabka said:


> Oh, in Ukrainian we have these words too! But they are not archaic and have no other connotations except "beautiful": _окраса_ (noun), _прикрашати_ (verb).



Hi Natabka!

I thought that it was impossible that these words have such a different connotations in our languages, so I've looked at diccionary and I'm quite surprised, because they also could refer to something connotated with beauty:



*okrasa* *1. *«tłuszcz dodawany do potraw»
*2. *«ozdoba, upiększenie» /ornament, adornment, something which makes a thing more beautiful/



And



*okrasić* — *okraszać* *1. *«dodać do potrawy tłuszczu, śmietany itp.»
*2. *«upiększyć, ozdobić» /to make something more beautiful, to beautify /

*3. *_daw._ «*pomalować na czerwono*» /to paint something in a red colour [this one is what is most unexpected for me!]/


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## vikicka

Tagarela said:


> Ahoj,
> 
> I am writing this thread after noticing something interesting in a Mikasa's, our Italian fellow, message:
> 
> She asked for the translation, from Russian, of *Privet krasotka* (...) and it seems to be _Ciao, belissima_, in Italian.
> Well, it really called my attention, because *KRASotka* and the translation belissima ( something like: ~ _beautiful lady_) reminds me of krasný. I've read that krasný used to mean beautiful in Russian, and that's where the name _Красная площадь (Red Square) _came from, originally meaning _Beautiful square._
> In Czech, krasný still used for beautiful. By the way, in the film Kolja there's a joke between the meaning of krasný in both, Czech and Russian, languages.
> 
> So, if *krasotka* is really related to *krasný*, as it seems, does it mean that Russian maintained the original meaning of the root in some words?
> 
> How about in other Slavic languages?
> 
> *I do not speak Italian, but I could have an idea of the word because of Portuguese.
> 
> Na shledanou.:


 
Hello Tagarela
It's a bit different in Macedonian....
We use the word *ubava* (*Убава*) which means beautiful, and we use *ubavica* (*Убавица)* for beauty eg. *Hi beauty - Здраво Убавицe*
But we also use the word *prekrasna* (*Прекраcн*а) to express that somebody is extremely beautiful

Bye


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## Thomas1

.Jordi. said:


> Hi Natabka!
> 
> I thought that it was impossible that these words have such a different connotations in our languages, so I've looked at diccionary and I'm quite surprised, because they also could refer to something connotated with beauty:
> 
> 
> 
> *okrasa* *1. *«tłuszcz dodawany do potraw»
> *2. *«ozdoba, upiększenie» /ornament, adornment, something which makes a thing more beautiful/
> 
> And
> 
> 
> 
> *okrasić* — *okraszać* *1. *«dodać do potrawy tłuszczu, śmietany itp.»
> *2. *«upiększyć, ozdobić» /to make something more beautiful, to beautify /
> 
> *3. *_daw._ «*pomalować na czerwono*» /to paint something in a red colour [this one is what is most unexpected for me!]/


I suppose that the word could have evolved like that, Reading Polish novels or watching movies of yore, I remember that fatty meals were considered good, so perhaps _okraszać _a meal was somehow like making it more beautiful, like garnishing it. Now I am wondering whether kraszanki are also in play.

Tom


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## Tagarela

Ahoj,

Natabka, *крас*уватися, is a nice word, I like this words fulled of meaning. It reminds me the fairy tale of The Sleepy Beauty "is there anyone more beautiful than me?"

Vikicka, thank you for explanations about Macedonian.

Thomas1, o, nice pictures of kraszanki. In Eastern time my Czech friend sent me some pictures of that too, Eastern egg is called *KRASlice* in Czech. I've asked her if it has something to do with Krasný - she wasn't sure, but perhapes yes. 
_Egg = vejce_, so I thought in something as _Krasný + vejce_, perhaps it's "too forced". 

Děkuji vám všem ještě jednou 

Na shledanou.:


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## Natabka

Thomas1, I think you have posted the picture of "pysanky" and not "krashanky" .
Have a look, here is *"писанки"* (they are decorated with ornaments and complex colouring): http_en_wikipedia_org/wiki/Pysanka_%28Ukrainian%29

As for "*крашанки"*, they indeed has something to do with red - they are Easter eggs dyed in a single color (with vegetable dyes): red, yellow or brown. The ethymology, probably, may come from "*крас*ити/при*краш*ати", which propably once ment "red" in Ukrainian.


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## Thomas1

Well, the site I linked to says these are _kraszanki_, there are also types of _kraszanki_, e.g. _skrobanki_--a dyed egg is  engraved, etched (or whatever the technique) and often as a final product an elaborate and sophisticated pattern appears. Anyway, to tell the truth today many people in Poland do not distinguish between _pisanki _and _kraszanki_. I was one of them not too long ago, perhaps it is regional, since I asked a few people I know and to them these are the same. Having looked up kraszanka in PWN, it is indeed dyed in one clour and it doesn't have any embelishments. This is what the definition looks like, the reality shows it's a bit different. 


Tom


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## Denis555

Se de alguma forma a palavra russa КРАСНЫЙ está relacionada com a palavra КРОВЬ. 
Então a palavra KREW em polonês e KREV em tcheco têm algo em comum com КРАСНЫЙ!


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## Natabka

Denis555 said:


> Se de alguma forma a palavra russa КРАСНЫЙ está relacionada com a palavra КРОВЬ.
> Então a palavra KREW em polonês e KREV em tcheco têm algo em comum com КРАСНЫЙ!


 
Well, they ARE related but only because of the colour conotation, right? I mean: they don't have common roots, etymology, do they?


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## robin74

Natabka said:


> I mean: they don't have common roots, etymology, do they?


No, they don't.


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## Ratgar

Interesting thread. What about to paint (красить in Russian)? How do you say it in other Slavic languages? How does the etymology work out exactly (if there is one)?


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## iobyo

vikicka said:


> Hello Tagarela
> It's a bit different in Macedonian....
> We use the word *ubava* (*Убава*) which means beautiful, and we use *ubavica* (*Убавица)* for beauty eg. *Hi beauty - Здраво Убавицe*
> But we also use the word *prekrasna* (*Прекраcн*а) to express that somebody is extremely beautiful
> 
> Bye



But we also have _красота_ (a cognate of _прекрасен_) which is much more poetic than the usual _убавина_, and from it we get derivatives like _краснопис_ (calligraphy; "beautiful writing"), _красноречивост_ (something like "eloquent speech"), the verb _краси_ ("to make beautiful", "to adorn/ornament") and phrases such as _красен човек_ ("a fine gentleman").


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## texpert

Ratgar said:


> Interesting thread. What about to paint (красить in Russian)? How do you say it in other Slavic languages? How does the etymology work out exactly (if there is one)?


 
kreslit (do draw) 
kraslice.. decorated egg shells


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## TriglavNationalPark

Ratgar said:


> Interesting thread. What about to paint (красить in Russian)? How do you say it in other Slavic languages?


 
In Slovenian, *okrasiti* means "to decorate", and *krasiti* means "to apply decorations." A decorated egg is known as *pisanica* or *pisanka* (from *pisati* = to write). Depending on the context, "to paint" can be translated as either *barvati*, *slikati*, or *pleskati*.


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## Diaspora

The Serbo-Croatian cognate to krasotka is ljepotica. Comes from the adjective "lijep". "Ubavo" is also acceptable but seldom used.
We can also say "prekrasno", "krasno" but not as a noun.


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## TriglavNationalPark

The direct Slovenian cognate of "krasotka" is *krasotica* (and the male form *krasotec*). However, *lepotica* (along with *lepotec*) is more common, especially in everyday contexts.


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## texpert

What about this _красить _(krasitь), _kreslit_.. is there any other similar root for *drawing* or *painting *anywhere?


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## TriglavNationalPark

texpert said:


> What about this _красить _(krasitь), _kreslit_.. is there any other similar root for *drawing* or *painting *anywhere?


 
Well, in Slovenian, *okrasiti* can be used to describe the action of decorating a piece of paper or a book (with drawings, paintings, or other elements).


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## texpert

There is a strong sense of *ornamenting*in all of the inputs I've read so far. Curiously, I had not perceived this in _kreslit _before.


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## TriglavNationalPark

I forgot to mention that Slovenian also has *kracati* = to draw pointlessly, to write poorly or illegibly. I'm not completely sure if the etymology is the same, but the words may be at least distantly related.


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## Azori

In Slovak _kresliť_ means "to draw" as well. *Kresba,* *kreslenie* = drawing.


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## TriglavNationalPark

lior neith said:


> In Slovak _kresliť_ means "to draw" as well. *Kresba,* *kreslenie* = drawing.


 
Kresba? Hmm. In Slovenian, *risba* = drawing, which makes me wonder: Is the Slovenian word *risati* (= to draw) a direct cognate of krasitь, kreslit, etc.? I didn't even think of this, but it would make sense.

I don't have my Slovenian etymological dictionary with me (again ), but I'll check this out when I get my hands on it.

Oh, and what about *kreda* = chalk? People use it to write and draw.


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## texpert

I won't be of much help with etymology but:

*rýsovat =* to draw (technically) but the outcome is *výkres *

and we draw with *křída *as well though the same word applies to a stone, geological period and who knows what else  

Hey, bookworms, come on!


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## Azori

Kreda derives from the Latin word *creta *meaning clay, chalk:

http://www.myetymology.com/latin/creta.html


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## phosphore

iobyo said:


> But we also have _красота_ (a cognate of _прекрасен_) which is much more poetic than the usual _убавина_, and from it we get derivatives like _краснопис_ (calligraphy; "beautiful writing"), _красноречивост_ (something like "eloquent speech"), the verb _краси_ ("to make beautiful", "to adorn/ornament") and phrases such as _красен човек_ ("a fine gentleman").


 
It is pretty same with Serbian: _krasnorečivost, krasiti, krasan čovek_; _krasnopis_ is possible, although _kaligrafija _is used more frequently. _Ubav_ and _ubavina_ are not standard words, while _krasota_ is possible but it is not used much.


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## Ratgar

dudasd said:


> Both _krasny_ (red) and _krasiviy _(beautiful) seem to be of the same root *kras (from IE *ker - to burn), that originally meant light of the fire, and then diverged to the meanings of "red" and "dazzling, amazing, beautiful". (...)



So it seems that "to paint" came from "to decorate"? And the above seems to show how a word with the *kras root can mean "to decorate" (specifically the meanings of "dazzling, amazing, beautiful").


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## TriglavNationalPark

lior neith said:


> Kreda derives from the Latin word *creta *meaning clay, chalk:
> 
> http://www.myetymology.com/latin/creta.html


 
Of course! I used to know this.


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## Russianer

О славянских языках: какими словами и терминами на вашем языке называют красавицу , красивую женщину? Например, у нас в России на нашем русском языке называют следующими словами: 
красавица, красотка, симпатяжка, красотулька, красотулечка, красивая девушка, прекрасная девочка, симпатичная женщина.  
*************************************************************
Переведу вопрос на английский для тех, кто не понимает по русски:
"What are words in your slavic language to say "beautiful woman", "beauty"?"
How to say "beautiful woman" in Polish, Czech, Croatian, Bulgarian, Serbian, etc. ?


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## Orlin

В болгарском языке: _красавица; красива, хубава, симпатична жена _(для женщины) и _красиво, хубаво, симпатично момиче _(для девушки или девочки).


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## nonik

cz

krásná žena, krasavice
pěkná žena

arch, poetry........lepá žena


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## Azori

Slovak

krásna žena, krásavica, kráska


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## Orlin

В боснийском, хорватском и сербском: _l(j)epotica, l(ij)epa/simpatična žena/d(j)evojka_.


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## yael*

Orlin said:


> В боснийском, хорватском и сербском: _l(j)epotica, l(ij)epa/simpatična žena/d(j)evojka_.


Simpatična se više odnosi na karakter, nego na spoljni izgled. Zgodna, divna, prekrasna, ljupka, slatka, lepuškasta itd. devojka/žena.


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## Orlin

yael* said:


> Simpatična se više odnosi na karakter, nego na spoljni izgled. Zgodna, divna, prekrasna, ljupka, slatka, lepuškasta itd. devojka/žena.


Ah, to znači da ja verovatno ne razumem na što tačno se _simpatična/симпатична_ odnosi!Zato i možda nije OK i u odnosu na bugarski, izgleda da sam bio pod uticajem ruskog ili verzije topicstartera.


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## Duya

Orlin said:


> Ah, to znači da ja verovatno ne razumem na što tačno se _simpatična/симпатична_ odnosi!



Koristi se više da govornik izrazi svoj odnos prema nekom (da mu se sviđa, da je prijatan) nego da opiše spoljašnjost. Kada se i odnosi na spoljašnji izgled, više opisuje nekog ko nije klasično lijep, nego samo "prijatne pojave"; štaviše, može da se upotrijebi kao sinonim eufemizam za "ružan":

- Je l' ti se sviđa moja nova djevojka?
- Pa da... baš je, ovaj, _simpatična_.


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## VelikiMag

In BCS slang, for a very attractive and good looking girl there is a word _bomba_. But unlike English where it can be used for both genders, here it is used only to refer to women.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Slovenian has *krasotica*, but *lepotica* is more common.

Putting on my *MOD* hat: *I've merged two very closely related threads.*


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## marco_2

As for the word *krasić*, Polish dictionaries mark it with remarks "archaic", "poetic" or "regional". Nowadays most often it is used in culinary matters as _to add cracklings or other fat to dishes. _And _to paint _is *malować *in contemporary Polish.


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## Orlin

Duya said:


> Koristi se više da govornik izrazi svoj odnos prema nekom (da mu se sviđa, da je prijatan) nego da opiše spoljašnjost. Kada se i odnosi na spoljašnji izgled, više opisuje nekog ko nije klasično lijep, nego samo "prijatne pojave"; štaviše, može da se upotrijebi kao sinonim eufemizam za "ružan":
> 
> - Je l' ti se sviđa moja nova djevojka?
> - Pa da... baš je, ovaj, _simpatična_.


Ja se slažem sa svim navedenim, tj. reč _simpatična_ (i, naravno, njeni ekvivalenti u ostalim pomenutim jezicima) nije *direktno vezana za spoljašnju lepotu* (simpatična osoba je često ali *ne obavezno *lepa) nego izražava stav govornika/pisca da mu je neka osoba prijatna (iz bilo kakvog razloga). Rekao bih i da sam upotrebio ovu reč u kontekstu topika u odnosu na bugarski i BCS samo pod uticajem početnog posta.


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## Arath

Orlin said:


> В болгарском языке: _красавица; красива, хубава, симпатична жена _(для женщины) и _красиво, хубаво, симпатично момиче _(для девушки или девочки).



Може също хубавица, чаровница.


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## Orlin

yael* said:


> Simpatična se više odnosi na karakter, nego na spoljni izgled. Zgodna, divna, prekrasna, ljupka, slatka, lepuškasta itd. devojka/žena.


Zaboravio sam da je kod nas sasvim normalno reći _прекрасна жена/прекрасно момиче_, i takođe, mada mnogo ređe, _дивна/сладка жена_, odnosno _дивно/сладко момиче_.


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## stelingo

Diaspora said:


> The Serbo-Croatian cognate to krasotka is ljepotica. Comes from the adjective "lijep". "Ubavo" is also acceptable but seldom used.
> We can also say "prekrasno", "krasno" but not as a noun.



Do the Czech 'lépe' (more colloquially líp) and Polish 'lepiej', both meaning better, come from the same root as 'lijep' ?


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## werrr

stelingo said:


> Do the Czech 'lépe' (more colloquially líp) and Polish 'lepiej', both meaning better, come from the same root as 'lijep' ?


Yes, all Czech "lepý" (=beauteous), "velkolepý" (=magnificent), "lepanec" (= educational slap on the head), "lepší" (=better) and its verbal derivatives come from the same root.

It also likely share its origin with the family of "lepit" (= to stick/glue) and "lípa" (= lime tree).


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## marco_2

werrr said:


> Yes, all Czech "lepý" (=beauteous), "velkolepý" (=magnificent), "lepanec" (= educational slap on the head), "lepší" (=better) and its verbal derivatives come from the same root.
> 
> It also likely share its origin with the family of "lepit" (= to stick/glue) and "lípa" (= lime tree).



... and even with Lithuanian _lípti = _to glue and Greek _lipos _= fat.


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