# I asked not for a salad but for soup



## Omaredava

This phrase is  wordreference diccionary: *I asked not for a salad but for soup. (Yo no pregunté por una ensalada sino por sopa)

*Grammatically should be:* I did not asked for a salad but for soup.

The question is: *Can I use the two to write? Does a phrase is more used when talking?


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## djlewis

Hi Omaredava, 

The sentence you posted:


Omaredava said:


> *I did not asked for a salad but for soup.
> *


Should actually be written as: *I did not ask for a salad but for soup.*

In everyday conversation I would probably say: *I asked for soup, not a salad.

*In writing, you could use any of the following.  They are in order from least likely to be used, to most likely, based on my usage and experience:

*I asked not for a salad, but for soup.
I did not ask for a salad, but for soup.
I asked for soup, not for a salad.
I asked for soup, not for salad.
I asked for soup, not a salad.
*


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## Omaredava

djlewis said:


> Hi Omaredava,
> 
> The sentence you posted:
> 
> Should actually be written as: *I did not ask for a salad but for soup.*
> 
> In everyday conversation I would probably say: *I asked for soup, not a salad.
> 
> *In writing, you could use any of the following.  They are in order from least likely to be used, to most likely, based on my usage and experience:
> 
> *I asked not for a salad, but for soup.
> I did not ask for a salad, but for soup.
> I asked for soup, not for a salad.
> I asked for soup, not for salad.
> I asked for soup, not a salad.
> *



Thank infinitive. of course. But. "*I asked not for a salad but for soup" *is it a mistake?


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## djlewis

Hello,

*I asked not for a salad, but for soup.* <-- This is a grammatically correct sentence.


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## Omaredava

djlewis said:


> *I asked not for a salad, but for soup.
> I did not ask for a salad, but for soup.
> I asked for soup, not for a salad.
> I asked for soup, not for salad.
> I asked for soup, not a salad.
> *



Gracias, es interesante saber, que se puede eliminar el auxiliar y el verbo en infinitivo. Para colocar solo es verbo en pasado y el not a la derecha.


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## djlewis

De nada. Buenas tardes.  If it helps, you can think of it as:

_*I asked not* (for a salad), *but *(for soup) -> *I did not ask *(for a salad), *I asked* (for soup)_

*I asked not* is more of a medieval/high-formal sounding way of saying *"I did not ask"*


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## SevenDays

Omaredava said:


> Gracias, es interesante saber, que se puede eliminar el auxiliar y el verbo en infinitivo. Para colocar solo es verbo en pasado y el not a la derecha.



Sí, y pone énfasis, como punto de partida, en lo que "pedí" (I asked) y no en lo que "no pedí" (I did no ask).
Saludos


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## JennyTW

No I don't think the use here is of the "medieval" type. 

What we're really saying is "I asked - not for a salad, but for soup". We can see this clearly just by changing the order;

I asked for soup, not for a salad. 

By the way, Omaredava, your translation - "Yo no pregunté por una ensalada sino por sopa" surprised me somewhat. In Spain we would never say that. It would be "Yo no PEDÍ una ensalada...."  Is this a regional variation or was it just a mistake?


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## levmac

djlewis said:


> De nada. Buenas tardes.  If it helps, you can think of it as:
> 
> _*I asked not* (for a salad), *but *(for soup) -> *I did not ask *(for a salad), *I asked* (for soup)_
> 
> *I asked not* is more of a medieval/high-formal sounding way of saying *"I did not ask"*



Medieval?  Chaucer is medieval English!

Whilom, as olde stories tellen us,
Ther was a duc that highte Theseus;
Of Atthenes he was lord and governour,
And in his tyme swich a conquerour,
That gretter was ther noon under the sonne.

I agree though, this is archaic use. I am sure you will find it in Victorian literature though, for example.


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> No I don't think the use here is of the "medieval" type.
> 
> What we're really saying is "I asked - not for a salad, but for soup". We can see this clearly just by changing the order;
> 
> I asked for soup, not for a salad.
> 
> By the way, Omaredava, your translation - "Yo no pregunté por una ensalada sino por sopa" surprised me somewhat. In Spain we would never say that. It would be "Yo no PEDÍ una ensalada...."  Is this a regional variation or was it just a mistake?



Gracias por tu aclaración. me ayudo mucho es saber esto "I asked - not for a salad, but for soup". Para contestar tu pregunta, no fue un error.

*contexto:* Le pregunto al mesonero acerca de la ensalada y me responde acerca de la sopa.


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## JennyTW

I'm glad you found my first point useful but I think my question afterwards wasn't very clear. "Ask for" is "pedir" not "preguntar". 

I asked (the waiter) for soup. -  (Le) pedí sopa (al camarero). 

I asked (the waiter) about the soup. - (Le) pregunté (al camarero) acerca de/por la sopa.


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> I'm glad you found my first point useful but I think my question afterwards wasn't very clear. "Ask for" is "pedir" not "preguntar".
> 
> I asked (the waiter) for soup. -  (Le) pedí sopa (al camarero).
> 
> I asked (the waiter) about the soup. - (Le) pregunté (al camarero) acerca de/por la sopa.



Quizás tengas razón en la traducción. pero "ask for" es pedir o preguntar por. Igual gracias por la sugerencia.


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## JennyTW

No es para nada normal que "ask for" signifique "preguntar por". ¿Puedes poner un ejemplo?


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> No es para nada normal que "ask for" signifique "preguntar por". ¿Puedes poner un ejemplo?



European comrades, do not ask for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee.

tu lengua materna es el ingles. Yo se que puede significar "preguntar por". Pero me interesa, cuando me dices que no es común.


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## Bevj

Tampoco soy nativa pero me atrievo a concurrir con Jenny siempre hablando de español de España.
_To ask for soup_ en mi experiencia sería *siempre* 'pedir (una) sopa'.
'Preguntar por la sopa' sería algo como 'to ask _about_ the soup'. (es decir - si está buena, de qué está hecha.....)


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## Omaredava

Bevj said:


> Tampoco soy nativa pero me atrievo a concurrir con Jenny siempre hablando de español de España.
> _To ask for soup_ en mi experiencia sería *siempre* 'pedir (una) sopa'.
> 'Preguntar por la sopa' sería algo como 'to ask _about_ the soup'. (es decir - si está buena, de qué está hecha.....)



Dije que su traducción podía estar bien. Ahora digo: que si esta bien. Pero ask for si puede significar "preguntar por"


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## JennyTW

Omaredava said:


> Dije que su traducción podía estar bien. Ahora digo: que si esta bien. Pero ask for si puede significar "preguntar por"



Pero vuelvo a decir. Me interesaría muchísimo ver un ejemplo de ese uso, para aprender.


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> Pero vuelvo a decir. Me interesaría muchísimo ver un ejemplo de ese uso, para aprender.



ya lo dí.. Miralo y me dices tu opinión


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## JennyTW

Si te refieres a este ejemplo;

Le pregunto al mesonero acerca de la ensalada y me responde acerca de la sopa.

Mi opinión es que, como nativa, sé que en inglés NO se puede usar "ask for" en este contexto. Si dices "He asked for the salad", él no quiere información sobre la sopa. Él solo quiere que se la traigan. 
Un ejemplo;

In a restaurant, a man sees "Soup of the day" on the menu. 

Man: Waiter, could you tell me what the soup of the day is, please?     (He asks about the soup). 

Waiter: Certainly sir. It's minestrone. 

Man: Ah lovely! I'll have the soup then, please.   (He asks for the soup).


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## Omaredava

no, me refiero a este que di mas abajo. "European comrades, do not ask for whom the bell tolls: it tolls for thee."


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## JennyTW

Ah sorry! I wondered why you wrote that. But I didn't notice the "ask for" precisely because it ISN'T the phrasal verb to "ask for" It's really saying; 

Do not ask (the question) ; "For whom does the bell toll?"       but in reported speech. So the preposition which belongs to the question ends up being next to the verb "ask"!

The problem is that in the Spanish translation, this difference isn't so apparent.


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> Ah sorry! I wondered why you wrote that. But I didn't notice the "ask for" precisely because it ISN'T the phrasal verb to "ask for" It's really saying;
> 
> Do not ask (the question) ; "For whom does the bell toll?"       but in reported speech. So the preposition which belongs to the question ends up being next to the verb "ask"!
> 
> 
> 
> The problem is that in the Spanish translation, this difference isn't so apparent.



I understood perfectly. Thanks for your time. Ask and ask for, I produce headache xD


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## Omaredava

and in this example?

there's someone asking for you at reception 
Hay alguien preguntando por usted en la recepción


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## JennyTW

Not at all, Omaredava. I'm only too happy to help. I don't want you to get a headache over it so as a quick rule of thumb, just remember that "ask" is generally "preguntar" and "ask for", "pedir". 

And if you ever want a but more, just look up "ask" in the house dictionary.


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## JennyTW

In this last post I was debating whether to go I into that, but I didn't want to get you too confused. The fact is that the examples we have been dealing with are about objects- soup, salad etc, but when it comes to PEOPLE the situation changes a little. 

When we say; 

"Le he preguntado por su padre" it means we're asking how he is, what he's doing etc. We're asking for information about him. 

In English here we would say "I asked after his father" meaning "I asked him about his father". 

But the example you give is the ONLY one that I could think of before where "preguntar por" could be translated as "ask for". Often we would translate "Ha preguntado por ti" as "he asked/wanted to speak to/see you". But on occasions we would say "He asked for you", especially with the stress on "you": "He didn't want to speak to me; he asked for YOU". 

And, tell a lie, I did think of ONE more example. It's a bit far-fetched, but valid all the same. Imagine this; 

A boy wants to ask the teacher a question but he's too shy. So he says to his friend; "Go on, YOU ask! Pease!!"
So the friend says; "All right. I'll ask for you" - "Vale. Yo preguntaré/pregunto por ti" (en tu lugar). But here "for" would carry more stress than usual.


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> In this last post I was debating whether to go I into that, but I didn't want to get you too confused. The fact is that the examples we have been dealing with are about objects- soup, salad etc, but when it comes to PEOPLE the situation changes a little.
> 
> When we say;
> 
> "Le he preguntado por su padre" it means we're asking how he is, what he's doing etc. We're asking for information about him.
> 
> In English here we would say "I asked after his father" meaning "I asked him about his father".
> 
> But the example you give is the ONLY one that I could think of before where "preguntar por" could be translated as "ask for". Often we would translate "Ha preguntado por ti" as "he asked/wanted to speak to/see you". But on occasions we would say "He asked for you", especially with the stress on "you": "He didn't want to speak to me; he asked for YOU".
> 
> And, tell a lie, I did think of ONE more example. It's a bit far-fetched, but valid all the same. Imagine this;
> 
> A boy wants to ask the teacher a question but he's too shy. So he says to his friend; "Go on, YOU ask! Pease!!"
> So the friend says; "All right. I'll ask for you" - "Vale. Yo preguntaré/pregunto por ti" (en tu lugar). But here "for" would carry more stress than usual.



Si ya entiendo bien. Solo me perturbó un poco cuando dijiste que no podía significar "preguntar por". Pero con lo que acabas de decir ya se que te referías solo al ejemplo que dí. 

ask for= preguntar por, pedir, solicitar (Para pedirle algo a alguien).
ask= preguntar, interrogar, pedir (Para pedirle a alguien que te diga algo)


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## JennyTW

¡Sí exacto! Como profesora, me gusta saber exactamente qué problema tienen mis alumnos antes de darles una respuesta. Porque si mi respuesta va demasiado allá de lo que ellos saben, lo único que voy a conseguir es confundirlos más. Pero claro. Este medio es un poco raro. Yo estoy acostumbrada a tener a la gente delante y poder escuchar y ver su nivel, fluidez, conocimientos etc. ¡Pero aquí esto es imposible! 
¡Buenas noches desde España!


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## Omaredava

JennyTW said:


> ¡Sí exacto! Como profesora, me gusta saber exactamente qué problema tienen mis alumnos antes de darles una respuesta. Porque si mi respuesta va demasiado allá de lo que ellos saben, lo único que voy a conseguir es confundirlos más. Pero claro. Este medio es un poco raro. Yo estoy acostumbrada a tener a la gente delante y poder escuchar y ver su nivel, fluidez, conocimientos etc. ¡Pero aquí esto es imposible!
> ¡Buenas noches desde España!



Your students are very lucky. In my country in common that teachers can not read a paragraph of text well. much less debate. Good night!.


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