# EN: (the) president X - article



## Rocksong

Bonsoir,

Quelle est la différence entre :

‘A few years ago, American president (…) said…’ and
‘A few years ago, the American president (…) said’

Thank you! 

*Moderator note:* multiple threads merged to create this one.


----------



## geostan

If for some reason you put the name of the American president after, you could say it without the article.

A few years ago, the American president said...
A few years ago, American president Clinton said...

I think, however, if I were to use the president's full name, I would probably use the article as in:

A few years ago, the American president Bill Clinton said...

This is just personal. I do not know any rules about this.


----------



## Rocksong

Mais c'est mieux de dire avec 'the' ou pas?

Par exemple:

'The American President Obama has announced...'
'American President Obama has announced...'

Par contre peut-on dire:

'The Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'
'Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'

?

Moi je dirais que le deuxième exemple sur la reine sonne mieux


----------



## geostan

Rocksong said:


> 'The American President Obama has announced...' Je ne dirais pas cela.
> Par contre, je dirais _*The* American President *Barack Obama*...,_ mais je ne saurais te dire pourquoi.
> 'American President Obama has announced...'
> 'The Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'
> 'Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'


----------



## Maître Capello

Je ne mettrais quant à moi l'article que si le nom du président est en incise, donc entre virgules:

_American President Barack Obama has announced…_
_The American President*,* Barack Obama__*,*__ has announced…_


----------



## Rocksong

J'avais donc raison pour la l'exmeple de la Reine Elizabeth 

Mais pourquoi tu ne dirais pas le premier exemple avec Obama?


----------



## geostan

Maître Capello said:


> Je ne mettrais quant à moi l'article que si le nom du président est en incise, donc entre virgules:
> 
> _American President Barack Obama has announced…_Cela me blesse l'oreille, mais comme je l'ai déjà dit, je ne sais pas pourquoi.
> _The American President*,* Barack Obama__*,*__ has announced…_



Evidemment, on pourrait recourir à l'incise pour éviter le problème.


----------



## Rocksong

Donc en fait, vous mettez 'the' si on dit le nom complet de la personne? 
(Barack Obama)


----------



## geostan

Voici en résumé ce que je crois.

Si on n'emploie que le nom de famille du président, l'article ne s'emploie pas.
Si on emploie son nom complet, l'article est nécessaire.
Si on n'emploie que l'expression _American President_, il faut employer l'article.

Je ne sais pas si cet usage est pareil dans d'autres pays anglophones, mais c'est ce que je dis.

Je viens de googler, et je trouve pas mal d'exemples où l'on emploie l'article même si on n'emploie pas le nom complet, d'où je conclus que l'usage que je viens de donner n'est point universel. Ce que je peux dire, c'est que si le nom complet s'emploie, il faut employer l'article.


----------



## Rocksong

Donc les deux exemples sur la Reine Elizabeth sont justes? (oral + écrit?)

'The Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'
'Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'


----------



## geostan

Rocksong said:


> Donc les deux exemples sur la Reine Elizabeth sont justes? (oral + écrit?)
> 
> 'The Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'
> 'Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'



Après tout ce que j'ai dit plus haut, je trouve que l'usage reste flottant à en juger par Internet. Mais je vous assure au moins que ce que j'ai dit n'est pas faux,même s'il y a d'autres usages.


----------



## Tacounet

Comme je l'ai appris, on utilise l'article _The_ s'il y aurait ambiguëté sur la personne. American president (il y en a qu'un, pas de souci). Si tu ne précise pas le pays, et si tu mets _The_, c'est que tu l'avais déjà défini quelque part précédemment, et donc pas besoin de plus de précisions. Après, apparemment, même pour les anglophones, il n'y a pas vraiment de règle générale.
English school


----------



## quinoa

Il se trouve que l'anglais dans sa grande souplesse peut considérer les fonctions comme des titres, tels nos Monsieur, Maître - omission donc du déterminant lorsque le nom de la personne est mentionné, sauf si comme le dit Maître Capello on effectue une incise, qui provoque une rupture intonative entre la fonction mentionnée et le nom de la personne.
Prime Minister Cameron, Secretary of State .... and so on...


----------



## geostan

quinoa said:


> Il se trouve que l'anglais dans sa grande souplesse peut considérer les fonctions comme des titres, tels nos Monsieur, Maître - omission donc du déterminant lorsque le nom de la personne est mentionné, sauf si comme le dit Maître Capello on effectue une incise, qui provoque une rupture intonative entre la fonction mentionnée et le nom de la personne.
> Prime Minister Cameron, Secretary of State .... and so on...



Il faut tenir compte du fait que ce n'est pas seulement le titre, mais le titre précédé d'un adjectif de nationalité qui se discute ici.


----------



## sarie

geostan said:


> If for some reason you put the name of the American president after, you could say it without the article.
> 
> A few years ago, the American president said...
> A few years ago, American president Clinton said...



I agree with that. 



geostan said:


> I think, however, if I were to use the president's full name, I would probably use the article as in:
> 
> A few years ago, the American president Bill Clinton said...



I don't think this has to do with using a president's full name. It's about familiarity.

"A few years ago, president Bill Clinton [full name] said...."
is correct. It gives the impression that one is familiar with Bill Clinton or lives in the US.

"A few years ago, the American president*,* Bill Clinton*,* said"
is also correct. However, by the fact that someone is using "the american president" suggests that the person speaking does not live in the US.



Rocksong said:


> Donc les deux exemples sur la Reine Elizabeth sont justes? (oral + écrit?)
> 
> 'The Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'
> 'Queen Elizabeth II has announced...'



Queen Elizabeth II is like her name. 

So the first sentence "The Queen Elizabeth II has announced" is wrong.
It would be like saying "The Mary has announced..."

The second sentence "Queen Elizabeth II has announced" is correct.
It would be like saying "Mary has announced...."

Now, if you were to pay more attention to her title and less to her name --by using commas:
"The Queen [Position]*,* Elizabeth II [name]*, *has announced..." would be correct.

as would

"The American President [Position]*,* Barack Obama [name]*,* has announced...."


----------



## geostan

sarie said:


> However, by the fact that someone is using "the american president" suggests that the person speaking does not live in the US, but elsewhere.



But who else but an outsider would refer to Clinton as the American president? An American would simply say President Clinton.


----------



## sarie

Yes, that's what I'm saying. 

What I was challenging was the idea that because you used a president's full name, you had to use a definite article.

I have heard many people say "President Barack Obama...." and it seems just fine to me.
That's what I was addressing.


----------



## geostan

But as I said earlier, the issue is not with the title, but with the title preceded by an adjective of nationality. I agree that the usage I follow is not what everyone says, but it is correct.


----------



## catch22s

Is it possible to say ' he wants to become president of the USA' and 'he wants to become the president of the USA'? Are both correct? I tried to 'google' these possibilities and I found entries for both... Are there differences in meaning if both are correct?
Thanks in advance for your help.


----------



## sixfingers

Both are correct. 

I would say you have the option of omitting the article because the noun/position you're referring to is also a person's title. 

Arguably, the meaning is slightly different..I wouldn't say it's an important difference. Maybe someone else will have more insight...


----------



## merquiades

I've said the sentences several times. I don't think there is much of a difference.  Perhaps "the president" puts more emphasis on the word president. It makes it stand out.  The president, not something else.


----------



## kodymuncaster

Chaque est correct .


----------



## jme1323

Both are correct, for the reason stated by sixfingers--if you leave out the article, you are referring to the title "President." There is no significant difference in meaning, if any at all.


----------



## lamy08

Hello

Which is better in English :
_Has Obama ever been to the cinema since he is President?
__Has Obama ever been to the cinema since he is *the* President?_

Do you need the article before the title ? I know that it is needed if the title is followed by the name of the country: _*the *President of the USA, _but what about President alone? On the other hand, you can hear children say: When I am President… […]
Thanks


----------



## Hellomynameishaley

I would say:

"Has Obama been to the cinema since he became President?"

Adding the article would also be correct:

"Has Obama been to the cinema since he became the President?"

Using the word "ever" in your question conflicts with the clause "since he is the President" because "ever" implies "at any point in his life". 

Hope this helps!

Haley


----------



## thedov

Hellomynameishaley said:


> Adding the article would also be correct: "Has Obama been to the cinema since he became the President?"



Personally I would leave out the article in this instance, but maybe that's just me


----------



## geostan

I agree with thedove. I would omit the article, but I cannot fault its use.


----------

