# Askolsun kyopoolar



## yoysl

Hello everyone,

I have a question about a word which I know is not very polite; I apologize about this in advance.

I'm reading the Bulgarian novel Bai Ganyo in Macedonian and Bulgarian, and I came across the Turkism "ашколсун ќопоолар" / "ashkolsun kjopoolar". The gloss given in the Macedonian is "Bravo, you sons-of-bitches!" so I understand what it means. I also know that askolsun means "well done" or "bravo" etc. However, I've been having a harder time finding the word that is transliterated from Cyrillic as "kyopoolar."

I'm trying to find a) how "kyopoolar" looks when written in Turkish (I know very little about Turkish orthography), and b) the literal meaning of the word, along with whether it's actually used in modern Turkish. I tried searching for "son of a bitch" in Turkish, but the translation I found was not apparently related to this word.

As is the case with many Turkish borrowings into Bulgarian, I'm not certain this word is even familiar to speakers of modern Turkish.

Any help or insight you can give will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
J.


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## Rallino

Kyopoolar doesn't ring any bells. I googled it, there is the Amazon tribe: Kayapolar. But I doubt that's what is meant here^^ So, I won't be able to help you in that department.



yoysl said:


> I also know that askolsun means "well done" or "bravo" etc.



Maybe if you're being sarcastic? Aşkolsun means something like: Shame on you.


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## yoysl

Oh, yes, definitely sarcastic. That much is clear from the Macedonian translation.

I'll keep looking; my guess is it's a borrowing from a dialect, and probably a pretty old one at that.

Thanks for your help!
JN


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## Eline0909

I think it is a bulgarian-turkish version of the turkish words:

*köpoğlu köpek* vulg, en. son of a bitch (the exact translation would be: dog, son of a dog)

or

*köpoğlu *

or

*köpoğlusu*


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## yoysl

That sounds like exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

Just to clarify, köpoğlu means "son-of-a-bitch"? And *köpoğlular *would be the plural of this?

Macedonian does not have front rounded vowels like ö, so it makes some sense that they'd render this as a palatalizing back-mid jo. I also read that in some dialects the voiced velar fricative ğ is not pronounced and instead lengthens the preceding vowel. Thus, I can understand why the stem in Macedonian looks like "kjopoo-." 

Is the -lu- an affix of any sort in Turkish? If not, I'm not really sure why the word is given as "kjopoolar" instead of "kjopoolular." However, they definitely didn't speak standard Turkish in those parts, so I'd be comfortable just writing it off as a corruption.

Thanks so much for your help!
JN


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## Eline0909

köpoğlular is the plural of the köpoğlu. In Turkish plural endings are _lar_ or _ler_ according to the vowel harmony.

In the Bulgarian version may be they consider that they hear the "lu" without writing it. If I remember correctly even in Turkish you could omit "lu" and say quickly köpoğlar but you do not write like that, it would be wrong. So köpoğlar is just a way of saying in daily speech, I suppose.

Compare with:

gidiyor musun (correct way of writing)= are you going?

and

gidiyon mu= are you going? (in daily speech: it is shortened)

oğul= son
oğlu= son of

But may be somebody else have some other opinions.


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## DarkChild

Rallino said:


> Maybe if you're being sarcastic? Aşkolsun means something like: Shame on you.


 In Bulgarian it's always used as a praise, well done, bravo.


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## Rallino

DarkChild said:


> In Bulgarian it's always used as a praise, well done, bravo.



Well, maybe македонски and български aren't that much similar after all?


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## Eline0909

Aşkolsun in turkish means also "do not mention it" in the sense if you do a favour to somebody and the person is greatful you say Aşkolsun (it was such a little favour so do not even mention it)


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## Rallino

Eline0909 said:


> Aşkolsun in turkish means also "do not mention it" in the sense if you do a favour to somebody and the person is greatful you say Aşkolsun (it was such a little favour so do not even mention it)



I think it derives from the same meaning: "shame".

As in:

"Çok çok çok teşekkür ederim!" _Thank you so so much!_
"Aşkolsun, lafı bile olmaz!" _Shame on you (for being ridiculous), it's nothing!_


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