# All dialects: جنب/جمب



## Hemza

Hello everyone,

Do you know why some dialects use "جمب" for "side"? Is it frequent to turn the "ن" into a "م"?

Thanks for your replies


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## Ghabi

Hello. I think it's only a matter of orthography: the pronunciation is always _jamb/gamb/yamb_ whether in fuS7a or in dialects, but the phonetic form <jamb> is often used in dialect orthography, while the etymological form <janb> in fuS7a orthography.

And if I'm not mistaken, this n-->m assimilation is called بَدَل by the ancient grammarians. In fuS7a this assimilation is also sometimes represented in writing, so one can write امّحى instead of انمحى.


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## Hemza

In Standard Arabic, it's "جنب" even in some dialects like mine, we do pronounce it "ja*n*b", that's why I ask. I think the shift come from "n" to "m" and not the opposite .

Or may be, did I misunderstand you?


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## Ghabi

Oh no, I don't think you misunderstand me. It's just that I can't imagine how the cluster -nb- can be articulated in natural speech, without turning into -mb-. So may I ask how do you pronounce عنبر?


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## clevermizo

Yes, this is a common phenomenon in many languages. The cluster of a nasal and another consonant often acquires the articulation of that consonant.


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## Hemza

Ghabi said:


> Oh no, I don't think you misunderstand me. It's just that I can't imagine how the cluster -nb- can be articulated in natural speech, without turning into -mb-. So may I ask how do you pronounce عنبر?



That's not difficult, I pronounce it "janb" with ease  and the first time I heard "jamb", it was from an Egyptian person I know, I've been surprised, I told him: "no, we say janb, you're wrong" then he explained me how they say it.

Good question about "عنبر". I was born in France from Arabic speaking parents so I mostly speak French thus I never had to use "عنبر" in my whole short life (nor in Moroccan nor in the few occasions I had to use Hijazi) ahahahahah!! So I'm sorry, I can't tell you how I would pronounce it, I must ask my parents how they pronounce it. But I guess it would be "عنبر" too.



clevermizo said:


> Yes, this is a common phenomenon in many languages. The cluster of a nasal and another consonant often acquires the articulation of that consonant.



Thanks for the reply ^^. Do you know any similar example? Because I have no idea (or I might not search correctly in my memory ). If you don't have, don't bother yourself .


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## fdb

In tajwīd the word /janbun/ is always pronounced [jambun]. It is even written with a miniature م above the ـنـ.
For example:

( أَن تَقُولَ نَفۡسٌ۬ يَـٰحَسۡرَتَىٰ عَلَىٰ مَا فَرَّطتُ فِى جَنۢبِ ٱللَّهِ وَإِن كُنتُ لَمِنَ ٱلسَّـٰخِرِينَ (﻿٥٦﻿


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## Hemza

fdb said:


> In tajwīd the word /janbun/ is always pronounced [jambun]. It is even written with a miniature م above the ـنـ.



It makes me suppose that both forms exist(ed) and one of them has been retained by some dialects while the other, by some other dialects.


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## Ghabi

Thank you for the explanation. Can you comment on these two pronunciations on Forvo? They somehow sound to me _jand _and _gand_ respectively, with the -b assimilated by the -n- to become a homorganic -d.


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## Hemza

Ghabi said:


> Thank you for the explanation. Can you comment on these two pronunciations on Forvo? They somehow sound to me _jand _and _gand_ respectively, with the -b assimilated by the -n- to become a homorganic -d.



Weird, because I do hear "jan*b*" from the Algerian person and "yan*b*" from the Emirati one. No "d". May be, the quality of the sound which is pretty bad influences what you hear?


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## Ghabi

Thanks again! So it's just my non-native ear, I suppose.


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## HBZ55

I hear "janb" from the Algerian, and "ganb" from the Emirati, but I wouldn't rule out their pronunciations being unnatural because they're influenced by the word they're reading.
To be honest, I find jamb more natural, and I don't think I'd pronounce janb in natural speech.


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## fdb

The problem with Forvo/Arabic is that you never know whether these are genuine dialect pronunciations, or whether the speakers are giving you their version of “MSA”. It does not help that they are obviously reading a written word. I think you would get better answers if you asked them (in English or French or whatever) “What is your word for ‘side’?” rather than presenting them with a text in written Arabic.

By the way: the Emirati man does sound like he is saying [gjand]. The Algerian definitely says [dʒanb], but in Algeria I think they really pronounce ج  as [ʒ]. Or am I mistaken?


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## MarcB

fdb said:


> The problem with Forvo/Arabic is that you never know whether these are genuine dialect pronunciations, or whether the speakers are giving you their version of “MSA”. It does not help that they are obviously reading a written word. I think you would get better answers if you asked them (in English or French or whatever) “What is your word for ‘side’?” rather than presenting them with a text in written Arabic.
> 
> By the way: the Emirati man does sound like he is saying [gjand]. The Algerian definitely says [dʒanb], but in Algeria I think they really pronounce ج  as [ʒ]. Or am I mistaken?


Your not mistaken some Algerians pronounce j as in English and others j as in French.


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## Hemza

HBZ55 said:


> I hear "janb" from the Algerian, and "ganb" from the Emirati, but I wouldn't rule out their pronunciations being unnatural because they're influenced by the word they're reading.
> To be honest, I find jamb more natural, and I don't think I'd pronounce janb in natural speech.



"Janb" is completely natural in Moroccan and in Algerian too . I heard "jamb" sometimes ago, by an Egyptian friend and I've been surprised. About Hijazi, I know that Urban Hijazi say "ja*m*b" but I have no idea about Bedouin Hijazi as I never went to Saudi Arabia. May be, a Najdi speaker can help us?


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## Hemza

fdb said:


> By the way: the Emirati man does sound like he is saying [gjand]. The Algerian definitely says [dʒanb], but in Algeria I think they really pronounce ج  as [ʒ]. Or am I mistaken?



Do you really hear a "d" at the end  I admit that it sounds close, but for me, I hear "b".

Most of Algerian pronounce the "j" as in English (in French, we would write it "dj").


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## fdb

I have listened again. The last sound is definitely a voiced dental, not a bilabial. Or at least that is how it sounds to me.


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## Hemza

Bizarre... I keep listening to it and I hear a "b" at the end from both. But the quality of the record isn't that good .


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## aisha93

In Khaleeji dialects it's يمّ (yamm) with no نون and باء
For example
> تعال يمّي (come beside me)
> يمّ البيت (next to/near home)


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## octa8on

Changing النون الساكنة into ميم is called Iqlab in Tajweed. It happens when التنوين or النون الساكنة is followed by ميم. It happens naturally without you know it is a rule or not. The word is written with نون but pronounced with ميم in both formal and informal Arabic. In Egypt we pronounce جنب as gamb and أنبوبة as amboobah etc. 
As for pronouncing الجيم as ياء, it happens in some gulf countries like UAE, they pronounce رجال as ريال rayal etc.


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## fdb

octa8on said:


> Changing النون الساكنة into ميم is called Iqlab in Tajweed. It happens when التنوين or النون الساكنة is followed by ميم. It happens naturally without you know it is a rule or not. The word is written with نون but pronounced with ميم in both formal and informal Arabic. In Egypt we pronounce جنب as gamb and أنبوبة as amboobah etc.
> As for pronouncing الجيم as ياء, it happens in some gulf countries like UAE, they pronounce رجال as ريال rayal etc.



Good explanation.


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