# biec – is this the only verb ending in "c"?



## drei_lengua

Cześć,

I was learning some new Polish verbs and noticed that "biec" was the only verb not ending in "ć".  Is this true?  Is it due to easier pronunciation?

Thanks,
Drei


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## jazyk

I don't think so. One that springs to mind right now is pomóc.


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## Thomas1

Hi Drei,
 
 
I don’t think it’s the only one, there’s for instance _piec_ (_to bake_) and _móc_ (_can_) (_pomóc _is its derivative, I'd guess) but certainly there aren’t many of them, I cannot think of any more right now.


I am not sure if it's due to the pronounciation since there's _mieć_ which has the same vowel cluster and it ends in _ć_.

Tom


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## Seana

There are two verbs for this activity in Polish language - *biec* and *biegać*
I see the difference just like that:

*biegać -* run as the act of running without any particular destination
*biec *- run to reach some end of the road
BTW in Polish infinitives are ended by *ć *or *c *when stem is ended by *k* or_*g* example: *bieg*nę biec , *mog*ę - móc , *wlok*ę - wlec, *piek*ę = piec)_


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## Thomas1

Seana said:


> There are two verbs for this activity in Polish language - *biec* and *biegać*
> I see the difference just like that:
> 
> *biegać -* run as the act of running without any particular destination
> *biec *- run to reach some end of the road
> BTW in Polish infinitives are ended by *ć *or *c *when stem is ended by *k* or_*g* example: *bieg*nę biec , *mog*ę - móc , *wlok*ę - wlec, *piek*ę = piec)_


The verb _biegać _is simply a derivative of _biec._ Sorry, I don't know the English terminology but _biec _is a permanent verb (czasownk trwały) whereas biegać is a multiple verb (czasownik wielokrotny). The difference in the meaning is that _biegać_ implies a reapeated action whereas _biec_ only a single/permanent one.

Also the second part of your comment isn't quite true, are there any other endings of infinitives except for _c_/_ć_? _Mielę mleć_ the stem ends in _l_ and the infinitve has _ć_. Or did I misunderstand something here?

Tom


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## Seana

> I see the difference just like that


 
I have explained difference in simple way -- giving my point (not from dictionary or wiki)




Thomas1 said:


> Or did I misunderstand something here?


 

_Is it not obvious _... *c *when stem is ended by *k* or _*g* example: *bieg*nę biec , *mog*ę - móc , *wlok*ę - wlec, *piek*ę = piec). _

_source_


_PS Tom I have found this sentence 






Dodatkowo, osobną grupę czasowników stanowią czasowniki wielokrotne, które oznaczają częste powtarzanie danej czynności. Odmieniają się zwykle wg koniugacji VIII (VIIIa i VIIIb). Przykładami takich czasowników są np. "czytywać", "pisywać", "bywać", "pijać" itd.
Nie wszystkie czasowniki (szczególnie nieprzechodnie, zob. niżej) mają swój odpowiednik w czasowniku wielokrotnym (np. "biegać", "pływać", "robić"); pozostałe tworzą czasownik wielokrotny od formy niedokonanej ("czytać" → "czytywać").

Click to expand...

_I haven't seen *biegać* as - interactive verb (czasownik wielokrotny).
'Czasownik trwały' - what do you means by it?


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## Thomas1

Seana said:


> I have explained difference in simple way -- giving my point (not from dictionary or wiki)


So did I mine.  



> _Is it not obvious ... *c *when stem is ended by *k* or *g* example: *bieg*nę biec , *mog*ę - móc , *wlok*ę - wlec, *piek*ę = piec).
> 
> source
> _


 
_Well, your previous post says something dfiferent (it isn't obvious for learners). Moreover, I think that it's all the way round, c becomes k/g since the infinitive is the base form from which other dervatives are created (which doesn't mean that you cannot trace back the primordial form from a derivative one).

Tom
_


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## Seana

Sorry I forgot about a source for interactive verbs


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## Thomas1

Seana said:


> [...]
> _PS Tom I have found this sentence _
> 
> 
> 
> Dodatkowo, osobną grupę czasowników stanowią czasowniki wielokrotne, które oznaczają częste powtarzanie danej czynności. Odmieniają się zwykle wg koniugacji VIII (VIIIa i VIIIb). Przykładami takich czasowników są np. "czytywać", "pisywać", "bywać", "pijać" itd.
> _Nie wszystkie czasowniki (szczególnie nieprzechodnie, zob. niżej) mają swój odpowiednik w czasowniku wielokrotnym (np. "biegać", "pływać", "robić"); pozostałe tworzą czasownik wielokrotny od formy niedokonanej ("czytać" → "czytywać")._
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't seen biegać as - czasownik wielokrotny.
> 'Czasownik trwały' - what do you means by it?
Click to expand...

There used to be one term, czasownik niejednokrotny-a nonsingle verb, which is also sometimes used for the types of verbs as _biegnąć,_ nevertheless, I came it across classified as _czasownik wielokrotny_ (cf. _Gramatyka języka polskiego_, Piotr Bąk, p. 250; Warszawa 1984). 

_Czasownik trwały_ in simple words is a type of a verb that expresses some conditions, actions streached in time in contrast to czasowniki momentalne (momentum verbs) that imply quick actions, e.g.:
piasać (trwały) napisać (momentalny)

I hope it is clear to you now if not let me know. 


Tom


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## cajzl

The following phonetic change occured in Proto-Slavic:

kt > c
gt > c

Thus the infinitives like *mogti/pekti* became *moci/peci.*

In Czech we have the following verbs ending with *-ci *(instead of -ti):
péci: peku
moci: mohu
říci: řku (řeknu)
-síci: (-sáhnu)
síci: seku
stříci: střehu
stříci: střihu
téci: teku
tlouci: tluku
vléci: vleku
vrci: vrhu
žíci: žhu

Some of them are obsolete.
The present forms řeknu and sáhnu are derived from other infinitives (similarly bieg*nę*).
Maybe there are cognates of these verbs in Polish.


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## Thomas1

cajzl said:


> The following phonetic change occured in Proto-Slavic:
> 
> kt > c
> gt > c
> 
> Thus the infinitives like *mogti/pekti* became *moci/peci.*
> 
> In Czech we have the following verbs ending with *-ci *(instead of -ti):
> péci: peku
> moci: mohu
> říci: řku (řeknu)
> -síci: (-sáhnu)
> síci: seku
> stříci: střehu
> stříci: střihu
> téci: teku
> tlouci: tluku
> vléci: vleku
> vrci: vrhu
> žíci: žhu
> 
> Some of them are obsolete.
> The present forms řeknu and sáhnu are derived from other infinitives (similarly bieg*nę*).
> Maybe there are cognates of these verbs in Polish.


This is something interesting, thus in Czech you have the shift from _c _into _k/h_. Does it happen for all presons when conjugated? [BTW: Does the _h_ sound is an equivalent of Polish _h_ or it sounds totally differently?]

Speaking about Polish the shift occurs for all forms:
biec:
present past future
ja biegnę biegłem pobiegnę
ty biegniesz biegłeś pobiegniesz
on biegnie biegł pobiegnie
my biegnniemy biegliśmy pobiegniemy
wy biegniecie biegliście pobiegniecie
oni biegną biegli pobiegną

Tom


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## cajzl

> Speaking about Polish the shift occurs for all forms:


I think it is not correct. The verb _biec/biegnę_ is not a good example as the form _biegnę_ is derived from the verb _biegnąć_ and not from _biec_. The verb _biec_ has the present form *biegę*.

The best examples of the verbs with the infinitive ending *-c* are *móc* (psl. *mogti*, stem *mog-*) and *piec* (psl. *pekti*, stem *pek-*). These two verbs exist in all Slavic languages and in all of them they have a special infinitive ending (different from the vast majority of other verbs).

The stem with the original *g/k* is preserved in *mogę/piekę*, but not in the infinitive and some other forms: *możesz/pieczesz*.

The special infinitive ending has evolved from the (Proto-Slavic) consonant groups *gt/kt* (like in *mogti/pekti*). In Western Slavic languages these consonant groups are changed in "*c*", we have *moci* in Czech and *móc* in Polish (N.B. both *c* are pronounced the same way).

Also *g/k* has changed in *ž/č* or in *z/c* before the front vowels (e, i, soft yer).

So the situation is as follows (in Czech):

infinitive: péci (< pe*k*ti)
present: pe*k*u, pečeš (< pe*k'*eš), peče, pečeme, pečete, pe*k*ou
imperative: pec, pecme, pecte
past participle: pe*k*l, pe*k*la, ...
passive part.: pečen (< pe*k*jen), pečena, ...
adjective: pe*k*oucí (< pe*k*ont-)
noun: pečení and pec (< pe*k*t')
etc.

Similarly for all other Slavic languages.


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