# I'm lovin' it   [loving]



## Markus

I was inspired to this topic by another thread. I have noticed that using state verbs in the progressive (e.g. McDonalds' "I'm lovin it'") is becoming quite trendy these days. For example, if someone were to say to me, "I'm liking your hair!", this would not sound nearly so strange to me today as it would have five years ago. If someone were to utter this phrase it would be very flamboyantly; its use is definitely not accepted in even slightly formal spoken English yet. But the flamboyant are always the early adopters of new language trends!

My question is, do you think that this trend is here to stay or do you think it's a passing fad? If it's here to stay, what are its implications for the English language (i.e. what information will be lost)? Note that I am not interested in the grammarian's point of view, I do not want to be told that the usage is incorrect (by today's rules), I already know that! But the fact is that use defines language, not the other way around.


Markus


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## kiolbassa

> But the fact is that use defines language, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> Markus


except in France where language is required to define use....


I always thought the misuse of the progressive was inspired by the classic foreign speakers' mistake and that that was precisely why McD. adopted it - a nod to German-speakers in particular (German speakers do not realize it is bad English). Could it be that people using it in English-speaking countries are simply nodding back in McD's direction?
If it does spread from trendy to generalised use, then we shall just have to edit all English grammars (the subjunctive has already been deleted or so I gather...)


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## jacinta

How do you like your new job?
Oh, I'm loving it so far. But it's making my homelife a little crazy.

Where is John today?
He's going to Mexico so he's home packing.

I'm loving your hair?? This does sound silly and made-up: a trend.  If enough people use it this way, it may stick but I hope not. (I'm actually not familiar with the McDonald's ad, I'm lovin' it)


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## te gato

Hey Markus;
I think they are all trends or fads unless a big corporation uses them in their ads' and makes them stick..
It is just another way to switch up the English language and get our point across..the meaning of what we wish to say..in the fastest and easiest way posable..
It is almost like slang in a way..ever-changing..ever-developing..to suit the purpose of what is being said..for that time..some stay..and thank God..some do not..

te gato


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## lsp

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Markus;
> I think they are all trends or fads unless a big corporation uses them in their ads' and makes them stick..
> It is just another way to switch up the English language and get our point across..the meaning of what we wish to say..in the fastest and easiest way posable..
> It is almost like slang in a way..ever-changing..ever-developing..to suit the purpose of what is being said..for that time..some stay..and thank God..some do not..
> 
> te gato


I agree completely, te...new expressions and speech patterns come and go like heel height and skirt length. Don't want to be caught dead in LY's fashions, and that often applies to trendy vocab now, too. Some last, like "like" (I am like, so over "like" - not liking "like" ), most don't.


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## ameridude

as far as the "I'm lovin' it" trend, it is more a marketing ploy than anything that should be seen as reflective of American culture as a whole.

For those of you who are not American, and perhaps are not familiar with the TV commercials, I'll explain, albeit briefly.  They are an attempt by McDonald's to "connect" with a certain segment of the population that isn't particularly well-educated.  In fact, those ads remind me how poorly many of my fellow Americans have been educated.  I've met many Europeans who speak better English than them.

The bottom line: don't take your cues from a McDonald's ad.


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## te gato

ameridude said:
			
		

> as far as the "I'm lovin' it" trend, it is more a marketing ploy than anything that should be seen as reflective of American culture as a whole.
> 
> For those of you who are not American, and perhaps are not familiar with the TV commercials, I'll explain, albeit briefly. They are an attempt by McDonald's to "connect" with a certain segment of the population that isn't particularly well-educated. In fact, those ads remind me how poorly many of my fellow Americans have been educated. I've met many Europeans who speak better English than them.
> 
> The bottom line: don't take your cues from a McDonald's ad.


Hey ameridude;
Due to the fact that I understood the phrase..and others have as well...are you therefore implying that we are not well educated?..and who is to define the stardards of education in a person?
We were in fact referring to the shortening of the English language to get a perceived idea across..'I'm lovin' it'. is still understood by educated..and non-educated alike as... 'I am loving it'...

te gato


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## gaer

ameridude said:
			
		

> as far as the "I'm lovin' it" trend, it is more a marketing ploy than anything that should be seen as reflective of American culture as a whole.
> 
> For those of you who are not American, and perhaps are not familiar with the TV commercials, I'll explain, albeit briefly. They are an attempt by McDonald's to "connect" with a certain segment of the population that isn't particularly well-educated. In fact, those ads remind me how poorly many of my fellow Americans have been educated. I've met many Europeans who speak better English than them.
> 
> The bottom line: don't take your cues from a McDonald's ad.


I've never seen the McDonald's ad. I've heard "I'm loving it" for years. It don't think it's new. I don't say it myself, but I have no problems with it. 

G


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## kennytimes2

there's nothing wrong or uneducated about "i'm loving it." it would be weird to say "i love mcdonalds", it sounds too strong. "i'm loving it" seems lighter to me. exactly like you'd say "i'm loving your hair today." you wouldn't say "i'm loving my mom today." the use of the gerund here conveys a lighter, more temporary feeling. to say the ads are an attempt to reach to reach uneducated americans is a huge stretch to make without any justification. 
fyi, the same ads are run in spanish with "me encanta."


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## mjscott

Neither am I, gaer. In fact, the more I'm hearing it, the more I'm liking it. Are you digging it?


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> Neither am I, gaer. In fact, the more I'm hearing it, the more I'm liking it. Are you digging it?


Hey mjscott;
I'm not gaer.. 
but it is dug...
does that mean that we are all not well educated.. 

te gato


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## gaer

mjscott said:
			
		

> Neither am I, gaer. In fact, the more I'm hearing it, the more I'm liking it. Are you digging it?




I do wonder why people take it so seriously when people play with language. Some things might not work, some things that we don't like may catch on and become part of the language. To me it seems that English can be mutilated in any way as the COST of being so free.

Do you ever wonder if people said to Shakespeare, "William, you can't say that. It's not proper English."  

Gaer


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## kiolbassa

Gaer,
once again, it's a matter of context. What may be right in one context may very definitely be wrong in another.
what makes this forum interesting is that we are all coming from different perspectives. Linguists, translators and teachers have to use correct grammar. They have to explain to students that "I'm lovin' it" is not good grammar - but they may also tell them that it is becoming usage (which I still doubt...). The non-professional language user-cum-lover will see things from a completely different perspective ... hence the hair-splitter reproaches from the one group and the "elitest" approach of the other.
As long as it's all good-natured, it's fun!


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## Markus

kennytimes2 said:
			
		

> there's nothing wrong or uneducated about "i'm loving it." it would be weird to say "i love mcdonalds", it sounds too strong. "i'm loving it" seems lighter to me. exactly like you'd say "i'm loving your hair today." you wouldn't say "i'm loving my mom today." the use of the gerund here conveys a lighter, more temporary feeling.


 

This is exactly how the use of the gerund feels to me! Thank you for explaining better than I would have been able to.


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## mjscott

gaer-
Have felt exactly the same way about Shakespeare. He can take the end of a phrase, turn it over and weave it in as another part of speech to the following thought, neatly box in that thought and present it to the reader. A contemporary lyricist whose style reminds me of this is Stephen Sondheim--(although it is almost considered sacreligious by some to compare anyone to Shakespeare.)

Concerning "I'm lovin' it"
Except for the contractions (I'm, lovin') what exactly is wrong with it grammatically?

If someone said, "How do you like your new haircut?"
--and I said, "I'm loving it!"

Is there something grammatically wrong with that reply?


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## kiolbassa

mjscott said:
			
		

> gaer-
> 
> Concerning "I'm lovin' it"
> Except for the contractions (I'm, lovin') what exactly is wrong with it grammatically?
> 
> If someone said, "How do you like your new haircut?"
> --and I said, "I'm loving it!"
> 
> Is there something grammatically wrong with that reply?



The grammar rule says that "state" verbs are not usually used in the continuous form. State verbs describe things that stay the same. Other state verbs beside "love" are: believe, like, know, own, remember, understand, want.

If you want to use proper grammar (obviously a personal choice), you will say "I believe you", not "I'm believing you" "I know it" not "I'm knowing it" and so on and so forth.

The operative word is probably "usually" - exceptions always exist and if they don't - you can just make your own (but perhaps not in a job application!)
cheers!


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## ameridude

"I'm loving it" is not grammatically correct.  While the phrase is understandable, it should be avoided.  If you are in professional circles and want to appear to educated, proper grammar is important.


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## cuchuflete

Kiolbasa gave a "rule".  It's new to me.  I don't read English grammar books with any frequency. I'm pondering it.  "To ponder" must be a stateless verb.  "To understand" was on the list of state verbs. Perhaps I'm not understanding it!


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## kiolbassa

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Kiolbasa gave a "rule".  It's new to me.  I don't read English grammar books with any frequency. I'm pondering it.  "To ponder" must be a stateless verb.  "To understand" was on the list of state verbs. Perhaps I'm not understanding it!



suggestion: access any English grammar website or book, go to the lessons on the present continuous (also known as progressive) and look under "when not to use" - I'm not inventing anything - this is standard pre-intermediate English (call it English 101 if you prefer). Sorry if you don't agree, but that's just the way it is. 

As for your "pondering", I don't think you can use it in that way at all: you can ponder something OVER, or ponder ON something, or ponder whether or not to do something but simply "ponder(ing) it" sounds weird. Worth a new thread perhaps?


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## lizzie chen

well, I think "I'm lovin it" is all right. At least everyone can understand it. esp. when it's in a non-English speaking country, it's easy for people to understand. In China,we have the same ad slogan "我就喜欢＂．


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## mzsweeett

kiolbassa said:
			
		

> suggestion: access any English grammar website or book, go to the lessons on the present continuous (also known as progressive) and look under "when not to use" - I'm not inventing anything - this is standard pre-intermediate English (call it English 101 if you prefer). Sorry if you don't agree, but that's just the way it is.
> 
> As for your "pondering", I don't think you can use it in that way at all: you can ponder something OVER, or ponder ON something, or ponder whether or not to do something but simply "ponder(ing) it" sounds weird. Worth a new thread perhaps?


It may be in the grammar books that way my friend.....but the spoken greatly differs from the statements you have given.
"_I am pondering._...." this is a very common phrase. In America, we use it all the time, whether correct or not. I suppose that is why we are so much of a colloquial language and not a "proper" one. It is few and far between so hear someone speaking "properly". We learn ther rules for it in early years, but stray away from them as time goes on. Not to seem argumentative, but I just do not agree. Nothing personal my friend.
Would you care for some coffee?? Fresh brewed!!! 

Sweet T.


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## cuchuflete

Please Kiolbassa, don't be defensive.  I'm sure the rule you cited really exists.  My point is that the huge majority of native English speakers have no idea what the "present continuous" is.  Nor do they care.  The  spoken language violates thousands of rules such as these.

There were just a few hundred google examples of  * "*I'm ponderinghttp://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/pondering&r=67 it*", *which suggests that it is not common usage.  I read a few of them, and they don't sound strange or awkward or in any way wrong.  There were about twice as many citations for "I'm understanding it", which also appears to violate the rule, but also sounds perfectly ok to me, at least as I'm understanding it.

cheers,
Cuchuflete



			
				kiolbassa said:
			
		

> suggestion: access any English grammar website or book, go to the lessons on the present continuous (also known as progressive) and look under "when not to use" - I'm not inventing anything - this is standard pre-intermediate English (call it English 101 if you prefer). Sorry if you don't agree, but that's just the way it is.
> 
> As for your "pondering", I don't think you can use it in that way at all: you can ponder something OVER, or ponder ON something, or ponder whether or not to do something but simply "ponder(ing) it" sounds weird. Worth a new thread perhaps?


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## kiolbassa

mzsweeett said:
			
		

> It may be in the grammar books that way my friend.....but the spoken greatly differs from the statements you have given.
> 
> Would you care for some coffee?? Fresh brewed!!!
> 
> Sweet T.



some like their coffee brewed, others prefer espresso and others only take tea - thank god for diversity!

(but if you look at my earlier entry, I underscored that usage is personal choice!)


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## mzsweeett

kiolbassa said:
			
		

> some like their coffee brewed, others prefer espresso and others only take tea - thank god for diversity!
> 
> (but if you look at my earlier entry, I underscored that usage is personal choice!)


Hmmm, I actually did not see it!! I shall have another look. Ah, there it is...sorry friend.
Please don't be so defensive. There is no malicious intent in any of my words. If I took all of my disagreements from the other foreros here to heart....... I'd spend my day stealing Te Gato's chocolates and gulping massive quantites of coffee in a corner!!    Only to find myself with a strange twitching (caffeine perhaps??)

Hugs for all,

Sweet T.


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## te gato

mzsweeett said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I actually did not see it!! I shall have another look. Ah, there it is...sorry friend.
> Please don't be so defensive. There is no malicious intent in any of my words. If I took all of my disagreements from the other foreros here to heart....... I'd spend my day stealing Te Gato's chocolates and gulping massive quantites of coffee in a corner!!    Only to find myself with a strange twitching (caffeine perhaps??)
> 
> Hugs for all,
> 
> Sweet T.


Hey MZ;
First things first...I'm pondering the idea of you stealing my chocolate..mmmm..
no need to steal, I share. 
I personally think that we on the English forum do not do or say anything malicious..we offer our opinions on both the written and oddly spoken English language..and the diversity of the spoken English is amazing..you do not have to like some of the sayings..or the idea that they do not conform to the 'rules'..but just realize that they are there..they exist..whether they are proper or not..
What sounds fine to my ear..might not to yours..does it make it wrong..no..is it still said..yes. Do we try and help each other understand..most definitely!!..That is why we are here...Some of us have different writing styles..(_for which I have recently taken a 'hit' _) Should it matter..no, due to the fact that we are all learning and 'lovin' it'...
So do not worry..we know that you are not malicious..

te gato 
P.S..Mods..if you wish you may delete this post if you feel it is in anyway inapproperiate...and not pertaining to the subject at hand..


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## Aeneas

I know I'm feelin' the direction of this thread.


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## cuchuflete

Well TG, I'm stealing your thought of pondering my chocolate, but you're understanding it differently, I imagine.





			
				te gato said:
			
		

> Hey MZ;
> First things first...I'm pondering the idea of you stealing my chocolate..mmmm..
> no need to steal, I share.
> I personally think that we on the English forum do not do or say anything malicious..we offer our opinions on both the written and oddly spoken English language..and the diversity of the spoken English is amazing..you do not have to like some of the sayings..or the idea that they do not conform to the 'rules'..but just realize that they are there..they exist..whether they are proper or not..
> What sounds fine to my ear..might not to yours..does it make it wrong..no..is it still said..yes. Do we try and help each other understand..most definitely!!..That is why we are here...Some of us have different writing styles..(_for which I have recently taken a 'hit' _) Should it matter..no, due to the fact that we are all learning and 'lovin' it'...
> So do not worry..we know that you are not malicious..
> 
> te gato
> P.S..Mods..if you wish you may delete this post if you feel it is in anyway inapproperiate...and not pertaining to the subject at hand..



As often as you and billions of other English speakers do this, it still makes my head hurt:   





> Do we try and *to* help each other understand



I don't know if there is a rule for it  Still pondering how infinitives get truncated.


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## timpeac

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Kiolbasa gave a "rule". It's new to me. I don't read English grammar books with any frequency. I'm pondering it. "To ponder" must be a stateless verb. "To understand" was on the list of state verbs. Perhaps I'm not understanding it!


 
Yes, it's quite right. I touched on this a bit in linguistics at uni and was wracking my brains for the terms when Kiolbassa came up with them.

If memory serves (and memory of any time at uni is through a haze of beer and thus not 100 per cent reliable...) the grammatical analysis in terms of the mode of a verb (stative etc) comes from the realisation that many languages are not like Latin which hitherto had been used as the grammatical model to describe all languages. I believe (and again could be wrong) that it was a grammatician studying Hungarian that decided that enough was enough and that a new non-romance model was needed for grammar, and came up with this. It turns out to be much more applicable to English than the Latin model, but has still not overtaken its predecessor. 

By the way* Markus *I am loving ( ) your original comment that usage defines a language and not the other way round. Also *Kiolbassa* your jokey reply that French is the exception to this is soooooo true. I have lost count of the number of times in the French forum that I have tried to make this point just to be met with a barrage of "it is incorrect period since it is not in my grammar book or dictionary". 99% of the population may say something but if someone has omitted to write it in a dictionary you can forget it. Ahhh soul mates at last!!


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## gaer

kiolbassa said:
			
		

> Gaer,
> once again, it's a matter of context. What may be right in one context may very definitely be wrong in another.
> what makes this forum interesting is that we are all coming from different perspectives. Linguists, translators and teachers have to use correct grammar. They have to explain to students that "I'm lovin' it" is not good grammar - but they may also tell them that it is becoming usage (which I still doubt...). The non-professional language user-cum-lover will see things from a completely different perspective ... hence the hair-splitter reproaches from the one group and the "elitest" approach of the other.
> As long as it's all good-natured, it's fun!


First of all, I don't know what "I'm loving it" is incorrect grammar. 

1) I am loving this conversation…
2) I am enjoying this conversation…

Second, I've heard the "I'm lovin' it" construction for many  years. So I see nothing recent about it.

Third, the "elitist" point of view might be nothing more than conservative and inflexible. Whatever we call it, sometimes I agree with that point of view, since certain words or phrases annoy me. 

But I think it still ends up a matter of preference in the end. I don't know why we can't express our opinions as preferences, at least in many cases, rather than "right/wrong", "good/bad", "educated/uneducated". It seems to me that things that don't work in English are automatically rejected in time. I trust fine writers to do what they have always done, pick the best language to express their ideas, and I also believe that such writers have extraodinary power, much more than grammarians or English teachers. 

Gaer


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## kiolbassa

Gaer:
"First of all, I don't know what "I'm loving it" is incorrect grammar."
???


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## te gato

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Well TG, I'm stealing your thought of pondering my chocolate, but you're understanding it differently, I imagine.
> 
> As often as you and billions of other English speakers do this, it still makes my head hurt:
> 
> I don't know if there is a rule for it Still pondering how infinitives get truncated.


Hey Cuchu KIA;
I am sorry that my pondering makes you ponder how hurt your head is...want some of my chocolate?..no rules attached to it... 
Thank you for the correction also...
te gato


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## languageGuy

Maybe a more revealing insight about this whole discussion is not what is says about grammar in today's society, but what is says about love.

Do we now see love not as a state, but as an action? Is "I am loving" similar to "I am swimming"? With coupling and uncoupling so common, with little thought given to divorce and remarriage, maybe "I'm loving you" is more appropriate today. No guaranties about the future, but at the moment, "I am loving you." (Check with my lawyer about tomorrow.)


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## kennytimes2

Absolute not.  It's an ad for hamburgers, not a Valentine's Day card.


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## gaer

kiolbassa said:
			
		

> Gaer:
> "First of all, I don't know what "I'm loving it" is incorrect grammar."
> ???


I'm sorry. Did you leave something out, above? I'm very confused, but that is a very common state for me. 

I'm pondering what I might have said, and I'm not understanding things at the moment. Perhaps when I get some more sleep, I can come back later and say.

I'm loving it here again, in the forum.   

Gaer


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## gaer

languageGuy said:
			
		

> Maybe a more revealing insight about this whole discussion is not what is says about grammar in today's society, but what is says about love.
> 
> Do we now see love not as a state, but as an action? Is "I am loving" similar to "I am swimming"? With coupling and uncoupling so common, with little thought given to divorce and remarriage, maybe "I'm loving you" is more appropriate today. No guaranties about the future, but at the moment, "I am loving you." (Check with my lawyer about tomorrow.)


I still think that "I'm lovin' it" is just another way to say "I'm enjoying it very much." Or something like that. 

Perhaps my view of language is unusual. I like to think about it, to analyze it, to study the history of it, and I DO like to know what the "rules" are—and who made them, or who is making them.

But language is also so much FUN. I hate to see the fun taken out of it by looking at things too seriously. I have the best time in these forums when people make serious points, well presented, in a way that is also light and playful.

It may seem as paradox, but I do think we can be serious about things and have fun at the same time. Does anyone else agree with this?

Gaer


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## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Cuchu KIA;
> I am sorry that my pondering makes you ponder how hurt your head is...want some of my chocolate?..no rules attached to it...
> Thank you for the correction also...
> te gato


STOP IT. You are cruel and inhuman. Just about the time I get marginally sane, you talk about chocolate. And if I can keep from going full-tilt-bozo, then you bring up DARK chocolate. And you gave me your headache.

Ah, if only I could find some huge block of dark chocolate, then I would write you back and say: "I'm lovin'g it, it's all mine."  

By the way, how's your headache? 

Gaer


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## lsp

ameridude said:
			
		

> as far as the "I'm lovin' it" trend, it is more a marketing ploy than anything that should be seen as reflective of American culture as a whole.
> 
> For those of you who are not American, and perhaps are not familiar with the TV commercials, I'll explain, albeit briefly.  They are an attempt by McDonald's to "connect" with a certain segment of the population that isn't particularly well-educated.  In fact, those ads remind me how poorly many of my fellow Americans have been educated.  I've met many Europeans who speak *better English than them*.
> 
> The bottom line: don't take your cues from a McDonald's ad.


"...better English than *they* (do)."

I cannot imagine you meant to be insulting, so I will just say I do not agree with you. Moreover, this fellow American finds the McDonalds campaign catchy.


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## Markus

gaer said:
			
		

> It may seem as paradox, but I do think we can be serious about things and have fun at the same time. Does anyone else agree with this?


 

I for one should hope this is not a paradox! Consider choosing a career. Ideally, what you choose should be something you're passionate about, and by extension enjoy and therefore have fun with! If you have found something that you take seriously and find fun at the same time, you've found the key to a happy life (or at least career) in my opinion.


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## cuchuflete

Hi Gaer,
You are correct. We can be serious and passionate and lighthearted at the same time.
I'm understanding it that way. But let's not get ponderous over it. Te Gato has the chocolate. She is having the chocolate. The chocolate is pondering its futile attempts at escape to a non continuous state. Alberta is loving it. Te Gato is still having the dark chocolate.

The present continuous is also called the progressive. Rush Bimbaugh eating his heart out. Please pass me a liberal dose of dark chocolate. The present continuous sounds like the gift of a Mobius strip.  Chocolate covered, of course.


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## mjscott

As soon as I say, "I love it!" --it is past tense! It has already happened, I have already loved it--on to dessert. I'm needing the chocolate!


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> As soon as I say, "I love it!" --it is past tense! It has already happened, I have already loved it--on to dessert. I'm needing the chocolate!


And I still have the dark chocolate..and..'I'm lovin' it'...

te gato


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## mjscott

MMMMMMMM m&m's is now making dark chocolate M&Ms. I'm lovin' it.

Is everyone getting dark chocolate M&Ms in their area? (Sorry, sometimes I can't just go to the Godiva store--If Safeway is nearby or 7-11 at 2:00 in the morning, dark chocolate M&Ms will do....)

Speaking of present participles, I used to tell my kids to behave. They would tell me that they WERE being have (hayve). New verb--being have. Whaddaya think? Nah! For little kids it's cute, but I'm not lovin' it.


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## gaer

lsp said:
			
		

> "...better English than *they* (do)."
> 
> I cannot imagine you meant to be insulting, so I will just say I do not agree with you. Moreover, this fellow American finds the McDonalds campaign catchy.


You find it catchy? How DARE you?  

By the way, I hope you don't think you use "better English" than *me*.

You could get into another discussion that would bring up a debate that has been going on at least a century between the "than I" and the "then me" groups.  

Gaer


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## gaer

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Hi Gaer,
> You are correct. We can be serious and passionate and lighthearted at the same time.
> I'm understanding it that way. But let's not get ponderous over it. Te Gato has the chocolate. She is having the chocolate. The chocolate is pondering its futile attempts at escape to a non continuous state. Alberta is loving it. Te Gato is still having the dark chocolate.
> 
> The present continuous is also called the progressive. Rush Bimbaugh eating his heart out. Please pass me a liberal dose of dark chocolate. The present continuous sounds like the gift of a Mobius strip. Chocolate covered, of course.


Cuchu: Are you pondering what I'm pondering?

These women have the chocalate, and I'm not loving it at all. I'm not ponderous, but I might be if I could eat as much of it as I'd like. 

Gaer


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## eric00

ameridude said:
			
		

> "I'm loving it" is not grammatically correct.  While the phrase is understandable, it should be avoided.  If you are in professional circles and want to appear to educated, proper grammar is important.



hi ameridude,
 You remind me of _Pygamalion _ by Bernard Shaw!


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## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> MMMMMMMM m&m's is now making dark chocolate M&Ms. I'm lovin' it.
> 
> Is everyone getting dark chocolate M&Ms in their area? (Sorry, sometimes I can't just go to the Godiva store--If Safeway is nearby or 7-11 at 2:00 in the morning, dark chocolate M&Ms will do....)
> 
> Speaking of present participles, I used to tell my kids to behave. They would tell me that they WERE being have (hayve). New verb--being have. Whaddaya think? Nah! For little kids it's cute, but I'm not lovin' it.


Hey mjscott;
*DARK CHOCOLATE M&M'S*...Agggggg...no..no..no..Not here!!!!
I was 'being have'....pleeeesssseeee..send me some..
I'm not lovin' the fact that we don't have them here...

te gato


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## kiolbassa

Hello everyone!
ever heard the expression "flogging a dead horse"?
Time to be changing the subject I think!


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## DareRyan

Well state verbs can end in ING but I think only when they are Gerunds


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## HistofEng

Many words and and word constructions that we take for granted as proper today were once frowned upon by the elite society in the past


300 years ago you would hate to be caught saying the uneducated "width" instead of the much more proper "wideness"


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## bartonig

Markus said:
			
		

> ... use defines language ...  Markus


Is this true? When Johnson wrote his dictionary he essentially catalogued the vocabulary of literature of the Elizabethan age some 150 years earlier than his time. He only included 'modern' words if there was a gap in the Elizabethan vocabulary. He excluded all dialect vocabulary on the basis of its ephemeral nature and any current English vocabulary that had been altered by contact with foreigners! And yet, his dictionary has been so influential. Some people still refer to it today.


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## Beverly

Oh yes and what about "ain't"! How language evolves !!


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## Merchita

In Spain they also say "I'm loving it" in McDonalds ads.

I had some problems with this use of the gerund because i was explaining stative VS dynamic verbs to my students and they often argue about everything. Now i'm more confident to explain this use in the class

Thanks


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## gaer

Merchita said:
			
		

> In Spain they also say "I'm loving it" in McDonalds ads.
> 
> I had some problems with this use of the gerund because i was explaining stative VS dynamic verbs to my students and they often argue about everything. Now i'm more confident to explain this use in the class
> 
> Thanks


What does the phrase "stative VS dynamics" mean?  

Gaer


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## Beverly

In language styles and word fads change over the years!
Ain't used to be wrong and was not in the dictionary but is now because of people using it so much and over a certain amount of time! I'm lov'in it is grammatically wrong but in spoken language is used to have more impact!! Like Micheal Jackson in one of his songs says 
"it don't matter if you're black or white" correct form _it doesn't_ I am learning more every time that I go back home to the states from my nephews and nieces!! It is hard to keep up in spoken English!!!!!! We all need to stay on top!​


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## Merchita

gaer said:
			
		

> What does the phrase "stative VS dynamics" mean?
> 
> Gaer


 
it refers to the diferences between stative verbs, those related to states, and dynamic verbs, related to actions
it's different to say "the food smells delicious" (stative verb) and "i'm smelling the food" (dynamic verb) 
This is something we study with the continuous forms. Maybe is very grammatical, but students ask for rules!


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## gaer

Merchita said:
			
		

> it refers to the diferences between stative verbs, those related to states, and dynamic verbs, related to actions
> it's different to say "the food smells delicious" (stative verb) and "i'm smelling the food" (dynamic verb)
> This is something we study with the continuous forms. Maybe is very grammatical, but students ask for rules!


Oh!

This is what threw me:

"stative VS dynamic"

I have never seen "versus" abbreviated as "VS". I'm not sure what the correct form is, but I'm most used to seeing "vs.", as in "right vs. wrong". I often type "vs", without the mark for abbreviation.

As is true with many "native speakers", I learned very simple terms in school, and I frequently stumble over the more complicated but also more precise terms used by people who are discussing grammar. 

Gaer


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## JazzByChas

I guess the idea, especially in a McDonalds ad, for using the present progressive tense, is to convey the idea that an experience does not happen and finish, but continues to be experienced.

As examples using the verb "*love*:"


To say, "I love it" is a bit more non-substantive, a sort of generalized way to express your satisfaction with something, and points out specific, finite instances of that event occuring, with no set time of occurence or length of time associated with it, e.g. "I love washing cars", or 
"I love eating at McDonalds."
​However, if one uses the present progressive, a state of being that is continuous (and occuring at present) is indicated. "I'm loving it" implies that you are constantly in a state of desiring to eat a Big Mac or Double Quarter Pounder. And I'm sure all the executives at McDonalds want us to be that way!  

Similarly, to use Cuchu's example, "I am pondering..." implies that the process of pondering is a continous, non-finite state of being, occuring for an inderminate (_until the person desire to stop pondering, of course!)_ amount of time. 

"I ponder" indicates that there are specific instances when you ponder, and you may or may not have done the pondering (or intend to any time soon!).

And since "I'm belaboring" this point (gabbing for an indeterminate amount of time), I believe I'll stop.


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## Beverly

May I add that following a fad of spoken English doesn't mean that we aren't educated! Fads are used to draw your attention, to wake up people, to listen, and if it works they will probably use it again!!! That is how things grammatically wrong end up in dictionaries! Then it is correct!


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## panjandrum

As one who is not in the target market for Mickey Ds, I have a question.
At what point in the absorption of "I'm lovin' it" into the world language, should this thread, and its period resurrection, be considered promotional?


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## redcamarocruiser

I am learning Portuguese, and when my friends told me the rule that claims you can't say "I´m loving it" , I was shocked.  

I have always heard people respond to the question, "How is your new job (or new city, or new culture etc) with the sentence "I´m liking it here a lot"

They may preface the reply with a qualifying sentence such as "Well, I was a little unsure about how I would like it here, but (I find that I am liking it a lot). I was worried over nothing."

I am 54 years old and have lived n the US all my life except for a short stint of one year in Brazil and 8 years in Germany.  When the McDonald's commercial came out, it did not seem innovative in speech or unusual at all to me because in American English, it is a commom usage which predated the McDonald´s commercial.

I believe it is incorrect to asume that McDonald's is shaping the language; I feel that they merely appropriated a form that was already in use for a long time (since my childhood and probably long before that). I further believe it is wrong to teach people that you cannot say "I am liking" something.  

The progressive tense tells the listenener that the speaker is still involved in the process of adapting to the new job or place.


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## redcamarocruiser

What I mean to say is the sentence "I´m lovin' it " is not a fad. It is standard im the US.


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## gaer

redcamarocruiser said:


> I am learning Portuguese, and when my friends told me the rule that claims you can't say "I´m loving it" , I was shocked.
> 
> I have always heard people respond to the question, "How is your new job (or new city, or new culture etc) with the sentence "I´m liking it here a lot"


I'm close to your age, and there has never been anything about "I'm loving it" that has bothered me. In fact, I have never heard the McDonald's commercial. I record any TV programs I watch, so I always zip through commercials.

On the other hand, I don't think phrases such as "I'm loving it" or "I'm liking it" were ever used by my parents and people of their generation, so perhaps we have lived through a gradual change in usage and have learned to accept it or feel comfortable with it. 

Gaer


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## cuchuflete

Gaer may well be right about the differences between generations, but my parents used expressions like...

I'm enjoying it.

To my ear, _I'm loving it_ is colloquial, non-standard. That doesn't mean I find any flaw in it, though I wouldn't use it in an academic text.


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## xrayspex

_simply "ponder(ing) it" sounds weird_

It sounds a little awkward, but it's acceptable.   In that example, consider "ponder" as a synonym for "consider".


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## gaer

cuchuflete said:


> Gaer may well be right about the differences between generations, but my parents used expressions like...
> 
> I'm enjoying it.


My parents and grandparents said: "I'm enjoying it."

For instance, I might have asked and gotten this response:

--What do you think of the book you're reading?
--I'm about halfway through it, and I'm enjoying it.

I don't think they ever said: "I'm loving it!"

However, I don't see any reason why "love" can't be used in the same way as "enjoy". 

Gaer


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## xrayspex

_To my ear, I'm loving it is colloquial, non-standard. _

It's actually ethnic (and non-standard.)


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## gaer

xrayspex said:


> _To my ear, I'm loving it is colloquial, non-standard. _
> 
> It's actually ethnic (and non-standard.)


In your opinion? Or should we all simply agree with you because you have stated that it is so?


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## mplsray

redcamarocruiser said:


> What I mean to say is the sentence "I´m lovin' it " is not a fad. It is standard im the US.


 
If by _standard_ you mean informal standard use, as in "used by educated people when speaking informally," I'd have to disagree. I'd say educated people use it only when speaking _very_ informally, that is with the full knowledge that they're speaking slang.


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## cuchuflete

I'm going to move the last few posts to a new thread, as they concern a topic different from the question raised in the first post of this thread.  In future, please open a new thread for a new topic.

Thanks.

Go here for the new thread about two -ing words together:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=492773


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## dobes

As an ESL teacher who teaches my students that 'state' verbs are not to be used in the continuous, I have been asked more than once to explain "I'm lovin' it". In the end, I tell them that I think that McD did it precisely because it is wrong, so it makes us look twice and harder at it.  If the slogan was the grammatically correct "I love it", no one would remember it, no one would ask about it, and no one would discuss it in a language forum.


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## panjandrum

dobes said:


> As an ESL teacher who teaches my students that 'state' verbs are not to be used in the continuous, I have been asked more than once to explain "I'm lovin' it". In the end, I tell them that I think that McD did it precisely because it is wrong, so it makes us look twice and harder at it.  If the slogan was the grammatically correct "I love it", no one would remember it, no one would ask about it, and no one would discuss it in a language forum.


See post #59


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## gaer

dobes said:


> As an ESL teacher who teaches my students that 'state' verbs are not to be used in the continuous, I have been asked more than once to explain "I'm lovin' it". In the end, I tell them that I think that McD did it precisely because it is wrong, so it makes us look twice and harder at it. If the slogan was the grammatically correct "I love it", no one would remember it, no one would ask about it, and no one would discuss it in a language forum.


Recently I was listening to a book recording, and I ran across something very close to this:

"Uncle Andrew was not liking it at all."

The is from "The Magician's Nephew" by CS Lewis.

I don't really see the difference between "not liking it at all" and "I'm loving it."


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## I_like_my_TV

Last night I was watching "Death Becomes Her". A female character pricked/ cut the finger of a male character with a knife (so as to subsequently show him the healing power of a magic potion):

Male character (startled): _Ouch! What are you doing?_
Female character: _I'm loving you!_
Although I'm not sure what exactly _"I'm loving you!" _means here but it shows again that the contexts for saying _"I'm loving it/ you!"_ are always the light-hearted ones.


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## felipe3

The grammarians Thomson and Martinet (_A Practical English Grammar_, Oxford  University Press, 1960/1986) state that the continuous tenses can be used with *enjoy* and sometimes *like/love* meaning 'enjoy' although verbs expressing feelings and emotions are not normally used in the continuous tenses (page 156). Hence it can not be considered as a passing fad.



Markus said:


> I was inspired to this topic by another thread. I have noticed that using state verbs in the progressive (e.g. McDonalds' "I'm lovin it'") is becoming quite trendy these days. For example, if someone were to say to me, "I'm liking your hair!", this would not sound nearly so strange to me today as it would have five years ago. If someone were to utter this phrase it would be very flamboyantly; its use is definitely not accepted in even slightly formal spoken English yet. But the flamboyant are always the early adopters of new language trends!
> 
> My question is, do you think that this trend is here to stay or do you think it's a passing fad? If it's here to stay, what are its implications for the English language (i.e. what information will be lost)? Note that I am not interested in the grammarian's point of view, I do not want to be told that the usage is incorrect (by today's rules), I already know that! But the fact is that use defines language, not the other way around.
> 
> 
> Markus


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## redcamarocruiser

mplsray said:


> If by _standard_ you mean informal standard use, as in "used by educated people when speaking informally," I'd have to disagree. I'd say educated people use it only when speaking _very_ informally, that is with the full knowledge that they're speaking slang.



I am a native speaker of English, so I am puzzled by your stance. I consider myself and my husband educated. He has a doctorate and I have earned a MS plus an EFL teaching certificate. It is not slang to me for the record, just emotional.

Example:
Mom: How is your honeymoon so far, Dear?
Bride: I'm loving every minute of it. Hawaii is wonderful.


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## mplsray

redcamarocruiser said:


> I am a native speaker of English, so I am puzzled by your stance. I consider myself and my husband educated. He has a doctorate and I have earned a MS plus an EFL teaching certificate. It is not slang to me for the record, just emotional.
> 
> Example:
> Mom: How is your honeymoon so far, Dear?
> Bride: I'm loving every minute of it. Hawaii is wonderful.



I can't say that I've ever said "I'm loving every minute of it," but it does not sound anywhere near as odd to me as did the McDonald's slogan "I'm lovin' it!" the first time I heard it. In fact, it _still_ sounds to me like something a native speaker would not say. (It's not simply a matter of it's being new: I've adopted the expression "My bad," because I like it.)

Many English speakers reacted similarly when McDonald's came out with that slogan. Even though something close can occasionally be found in old texts, it must have always been rather rare, for people to have reacted to it the way they did.

I just found the following, from page 80 of _Language and Politics_ by John Earl Joseph, available in preview on Google Books. Joseph, in a discussion of language change, gives a list of usages which increase in frequency "as the speaker's age drops from 50+ to 25 or younger," and in which the following appears:



> the extension of the present progressive to verbs such as _like_ that have not traditionally taken it. _I'm enjoying this_ is something which I often say; _I'm liking this_ is something which, again, I could say only in imitation of a different kind of English from my own. Trappes-Lomax (2005) has linked this change to the McDonald's advertising campaign slogan _I'm lovin' it._



I feel the same as Joseph does about _I'm enjoying this_ (I could use it) and _I'm liking this_ (I could imitate this usage, but it is not natural to me).


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## zaffy

jacinta said:


> How do you like your new job?
> Oh, I'm loving it so far. But it's making my homelife a little crazy.



And If I say 'I love it so far' in this conversation, will I sound unnatural?


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## Hermione Golightly

No, you won't!  But, "I'm loving it so far" is also natural.


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## zaffy

And how do you find the title of the Scorpions' song "I'm still loving you". Having read a few threads, this must sound totally wrong and unnatural, does it?


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## sdgraham

zaffy said:


> And how do you find the title of the Scorpions' song "I'm still loving you". Having read a few threads, this must sound totally wrong and unnatural, does it?


We continually try to convince learners that songs and poems are outside the realm of "correct" English.


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## Carmen16

Hi, you can find verything behind McDonald's 'I'm lovin' it' here: Brand Relevance: The Strategy Behind “i’m lovin’ it” | Branding Strategy Insider


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