# Tsardom of New Imperial Texas



## spygames03

Greetings, 

First off let me say that the translation is for a role playing nation that I am working on. 

I have have been able to translate "Tsardom of New Imperial Texas" into 3 Russian versions and I would like to see which one is correct. 

Tsardom of New Imperial Texas

1.) Царство новая имперская Техас
2.) Царьство новая имперская Техас
3.) Царство новый имперский Техас

and my last question is does it matter about the accent marks if its present or not?. The reason why I ask is because I see that Wikipedia does it both ways. 

Thanks to anyone who can help.


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## Maroseika

All three are wrong and I'm not sure what you mean even in English. Literal Russian translation is царство нового имперского Техаса, but it doesn't make too much sense in Russian.


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## viesis

If it is supposed to be an official country name, i.e. "Tsardom" is a form of government and "New Imperial Texas" is the country's name (like *Republic* of *Chile*, for instance) then I would suggest the following translations "Царство Новый Имперский Техас" or "Царство Новый Императорский Техас".
And no accent marks, of course.


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## LilianaB

I agree. Wasn't the post a joke, though? It was posted yesterday.


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## Maroseika

LilianaB said:


> I agree. Wasn't the post a joke, though? It was posted yesterday.


Unfortunately, not.


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## LilianaB

Are these just virtual nations, right, unless I missed something?


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## Maroseika

LilianaB said:


> Are these just virtual nations, right, unless I missed something?


Well, looks like.


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## rusita preciosa

LilianaB said:


> Are these just virtual nations, right, unless I missed something?



Yes, you did. The OP clearly indicated that they are made-up for a role play.


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## LilianaB

He made them up for a play? There is a site that has virtual nations by such strange names. You can even create your own virtual nation there, I think. In more conservative language, the the New Imperium of Texas would make more sense. Kingdom and Imperium usually do not go together in one phrase.


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## Albertovna

Maroseika said:


> I'm not sure what you mean even in English.


Neither am I.


LilianaB said:


> Imperium


Empire?

Maybe, Новая Техасская империя?
As Liliana said, "tsardom"/"kingdom" and "empire" usually do not go together in one phrase.


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## LilianaB

Yes, Empire, definitely Empire. This is what happens if you speak in a few languages in the morning. The New Texas Empire or the Empire of New Texas, or the New Empire of Texas, depending what one wants.


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## ewie

LilianaB said:


> Yes, Empire, definitely Empire. This is what happens if you speak in a few languages in the morning. The New Texas Empire or the Empire of New Texas, or the New Empire of Texas, depending what one wants.


He wants it in _Russian_, Lil


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## Albertovna

I cannot think of anything but Новая Техасская империя or Царство Техасское in this case.


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## spygames03

Sorry for the late reply. 

Yes It is for a role playing nation as some have found out. I've had that particular nation for a number of years, however I am just now getting into the translation into Russian. 

I just need the Russian version so I can then translate that into another (fictional) language made up by someone else. 


The Tsardom is a forum of government while New Imperial Texas is the name of the nation. 


Thanks to all who replied.


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## LilianaB

Hi, Spygames03. Could you kindly explain what a role playing nation is. This might be a term familiar only to people who play computer games. Did a native English speaker create the name, the Kingdom of Imperial Texas? It does not make much sense in English so it is hard to translate it into Russian.  You can translate it into a fictional language straight from English, unless you need it also in Russian for the purpose of another version of the  game.  You said that the purpose of having it in Russian was to translate it into another fictional language. If you really want to keep this strange name, the literal translation will be: Царство Новый Императорский Техас.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

> the literal translation will be: Царство Новый Императорский Техас.



 No, it won't. What about cases?

If by Tsardom *spygames* means a form of government, then Царство Техасское the best option. If it's ruled by Tsar then it's царство, otherwise it's Техасская империя.


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## LilianaB

It is a made-up name, possibly translated form another language. I think what I suggested will do, maybe with a hyphen, or you can change the last part to the Genitive. Царство - Новый Императорский Техас, Царство: Новый Императорский Техас.


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## Carrot Ironfoundersson

> Царство - Новый Императорский Техас



You mean it's like Княжество Монако or Княжество Андорра... Still sounds weird. Probably because in Russian all the descriptions come before the...mmm... type of state. Like Великое княжество Литовское.


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## LilianaB

Yes, I think so. The name is weird to begin with, but maybe it should be like that for the purpose of the game -- to make it unlike the names in the physical world.


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## ewie

I'm surprised that every single respondent has said 'Техас' rather than 'Тексас' ... am I missing something obvious that I don't know about?


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## Valvs

The word entered Russian back when Texas belonged to Mexico, if not earlier, so Spanish pronunciation rules apply.


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## Angelo di fuoco

ewie said:


> I'm surprised that every single respondent has said 'Техас' rather than 'Тексас' ... am I missing something obvious that I don't know about?



Yes, as it was said, Spanish pronunciation rules apply, but the stress (which is on the second syllable) is rather strange because, as for all I know, Texas bears the stress on the first syllable in Spanish, too.


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## morzh

ewie said:


> I'm surprised that every single respondent has said 'Техас' rather than 'Тексас' ... am I missing something obvious that I don't know about?



Well, yes, in Russian proper it is "Техас", not "Тексас".

However in Russian dialect spoken by Russians who live in the US, it is usually "Тексас".

Also keep in mind that many other states have their names a bit different in Russian:

Maine - Мэн (not Мэйн) 
Virginia - Виргиния (not Вирджиния)
Carolina - Каролина, not Кэролайна.
Michigan - Мичига́н, not Ми́шиган.

so on, so forth.

And also the stresses move a lot, according to how it is more convenient or customary to pronounce. Such as "Вашингто́н", not "Во́шингтон" and "Висконси́н / Флори́да" and not "Виско́нсин / Фло́рида".


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## Moro12

morzh said:


> And also the stresses move a lot, according to how it is more convenient or customary to pronounce. Such as "Вашингто́н", not "Во́шингтон" and "Висконси́н / Флори́да" and not "Виско́нсин / Фло́рида".



Some thought on stresses in foreign names.

Although Russian has no pre-defined stress position, there are still some tendences.
Many years ago I noticed an interesting psychologic thing:
If you write a completely unknown word in Cyrillic, and ask a native Russian to read it aloud, in most of cases they would put the stress according to the following rules:
1) to the last syllable, if the last letter is a consonant;
2) to the penultimate syllable, if the last letter is a vowel.
For example, let's "invent" 2 completely meaningless words: курсамбулт and бисмикреза.
More than 50% of Russians would pronounce them as курсамбУлт and бисмикрЕза.

I do not know a good explanation for that, but it seems as those stress positions are just "the most convenient" ones for Russian speakers.


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## viesis

morzh said:


> Висконси́н


It is Виско́нсин after all.


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## morzh

Ну, значит, поменялось. Я-то говорю в соответствии с оригинальньiми именами - легче так, но, по приезде сюда, мне пришлось поменять привьiчки, и "Висконси́н" бьiл как раз одной из етих привьiчек. А, может, я всю советскую жизнь неправильно его произносил


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## LilianaB

It is also Кентукки.


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## morzh

LilianaB said:


> It is also Кентукки.



Yes.

Also "Нью *Г*емпшир".


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## ewie

Valvs said:


> The word entered Russian back when Texas belonged to Mexico, if not earlier, so Spanish pronunciation rules apply.


Thanks, folks.  (Yes, I _was_ missing something I didn't know about)



Angelo di fuoco said:


> the stress (which is on the second syllable) is rather strange because [...] Texas bears the stress on the first syllable in Spanish, too.


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## viesis

morzh said:


> Yes.
> 
> Also "Нью *Г*емпшир".


Also "Иллиной*с*".


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## morzh

viesis said:


> Also "Иллиной*с*".



I don't feel too bad about that: the word came into English through French (hence the "-ois"), and huess how it was pronounced. Clearly not "ой/ойс". So this one I can live with


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## spygames03

LilianaB said:


> Hi, Spygames03. Could you kindly explain what a role playing nation is. This might be a term familiar only to people who play computer games. Did a native English speaker create the name, the Kingdom of Imperial Texas? It does not make much sense in English so it is hard to translate it into Russian.  You can translate it into a fictional language straight from English, unless you need it also in Russian for the purpose of another version of the  game.  You said that the purpose of having it in Russian was to translate it into another fictional language. If you really want to keep this strange name, the literal translation will be: Царство Новый Императорский Техас.



It is not a computer game per se. I've been playing NS since mid-late 2003 and New Imperial Texas was not my original nation. I created like a year or so later. 




LilianaB said:


> It is a made-up name, possibly translated form another language. I think what I suggested will do, maybe with a hyphen, or you can change the last part to the Genitive. Царство - Новый Императорский Техас, Царство: Новый Императорский Техас.



The reason why I need it in Russian as I already posted is to translate it into a fictional language for the purpose of Role Playing and History. 

Here is a sample of the Russian text that will be translated into the fictional language along with English. 

imageshack.us /photo/my-images/535/tonit.jpg/


I am willing to change the Government type from Tsardom to Empire or Holy Empire if it would make more sense in the Russian Translation, but then again I would also have to redo all the titles IE: Tsar to Emperor etc., from what I have already done.


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## LilianaB

Is your fictional language going to be based on Russian: similar to Russian in form, but only Russian-like?


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## Albertovna

As for me, I always say Вирджиния and Фло́рида.


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## Angelo di fuoco

spygames03 said:


> I am willing to change the Government type from Tsardom to Empire or Holy Empire if it would make more sense in the Russian Translation, but then again I would also have to redo all the titles IE: Tsar to Emperor etc., from what I have already done.


Government type would be: monarchy (absolute, constitutional, parlamentary, elective...)


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## gevenamolalandaziseafaine

For Roleplaying reasons I'd go with 
"Царство Новый Державный Техас"
Tsarstvo is Tsardom and Derzhavnyj derives from Derzhava
http://translate.google.com/#ru|en|держава
It is a vague term for the (Russian) state which, I think, has all the nescessary chauvinistic connotations of might and glory usually associated with "Empire" in English.


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## gevenamolalandaziseafaine

There, the adjective is translated as "holding supreme power", "souvereign" and "majestic" in the yandex online dictionary.
http://lingvo.yandex.ru/державный/по-английски/


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## Maroseika

gevenamolalandaziseafaine said:


> For Roleplaying reasons I'd go with
> "Царство Новый Державный Техас"
> Tsarstvo is Tsardom and Derzhavnyj derives from Derzhava
> http://translate.google.com/#ru|en|держава
> It is a vague term for the (Russian) state which, I think, has all the nescessary chauvinistic connotations of might and glory usually associated with "Empire" in English.


Your link is not completely correct, держава means 'power' only in very special context.
I'm afraid a country name containing царство and держава or державный together is ravings for any Russuian native. Non-natives, of course, do not care.



> There, the adjective is translated as "holding supreme power", "souvereign" and "majestic" in the yandex online dictionary.
> http://lingvo.yandex.ru/державный/по-английски/


Inapplicable to the country (державная держава means smth like imperial empire).


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## gevenamolalandaziseafaine

> Your link is not completely correct, держава means 'power' only in very special context.


Yandex translates it to "world power", their Russian-Russian dictionaries seem to sport a list of the very same synonyms you'd get in an English thesaurus for the term "imperial". In google, if you click on the suggested translation, you also do get "country of".


> Inapplicable to the country (державная держава means smth like imperial empire).


  well, "imperial empire" would sound damn odd as well. 
I think the adjective here is intended to add some late 19th century grandeur flavour; императорский would just be the *literal *translation, "belonging to the emperor"; Имперский would sound fine, but the best shot would, indeed, be to let the latest generation of native Russian strategy gamers decide. Here's a forum:
http://rusmnb.ru/index.php?board=14.0
nationstates _does _have a forum as well;
http://forum.nationstates.net/
they're popular and so they're bound to have a bunch of Russian posters versed in English. Let them decide what's more befitting.


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## Maroseika

gevenamolalandaziseafaine said:


> Yandex translates it to "world power", their Russian-Russian dictionaries seem to sport a list of the very same synonyms you'd get in an English thesaurus for the term "imperial". In google, if you click on the suggested translation, you also do get "country of".
> well, "imperial empire" would sound damn odd as well.


No, Yandex translates мировая держава as 'world power' or better say 'world Power", where Power is a state. Держава itself can mean only a state or an orb.
Держава has nothing to do with empire at all, in Russian держава is any state, but in special (lofty or political) context, such as: nuclear powers (ядерные державы) Axis powers (державы Оси), Allied Powers (Союзные державы), etc. 



> well, "imperial empire" would sound damn odd as well.


Glad to know you understand this. But your Russian phrase means exactly the same.




> I think the adjective here is intended to add some late 19th century grandeur flavour; императорский would just be the *literal *translation, "belonging to the emperor"; Имперский would sound fine, but the best shot would, indeed, be to let the latest generation of native Russian strategy gamers decide.


Russian adjective державный cannot combine with each and every noun. It can work in such combinations as державная поступь - majestic tread, державный правитель - sovereign ruler, державный статус - power status and many others. But державная империя is absolute nonsense. No matter what "gamers" (whoever they are) think about it.
You (and they) are free to invent any word combination in any human language you  want. But if you want to use normal Russian, there are some limitations. Therefore if you choose something like what we are discussing, please do not call it Russian phrase. And don't wonder at the reaction of Russian natives to these laughable neologisms.


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## Albertovna

gevenamolalandaziseafaine said:


> "Царство Новый Державный Техас"


  To me, this is the best option (but, of course, it should be without quotation marks).


Maroseika said:


> in Russian держава is any state, but in special (lofty or political) context


Sorry, I have to differ. "Держава" refers only to a big and mighty country.

Oh, a couple of new options have just occurred to me. 
Новая Техасская держава
Новотехасская держава
To make this more "majestic,"
Великая (or Священная, like in the Russian anthem) Новотехасская держава
With an inversion, 
Великая/Священная держава Новотехасская


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## Maroseika

Albertovna said:


> To me, this is the best option (but, of course, it should be without quotation marks).
> 
> Sorry, I have to differ. "Держава" refers only to a big and mighty country.



Ушаков: Держава - независимое государство, имеющее влияние в международных делах (cf. великая держава, европейские державы). If you want to call it mighty, all right, I don't mind. Even if we then have to refer to Northen Korea as big and mighty countries due to her nuclear status. 
But anyway, "держава" as a part of the name of the country doesn't look natural in Russian. There is a set expression российская держава, showing that in regard with the state this word can be used only as a description, but not as official name.


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## Albertovna

Maroseika said:


> But anyway, "держава" as a part of the name of the country doesn't look natural in Russian.


I agree with you, still I think this will suit a made-up country. Texas as a country does not look natural either.


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## Maroseika

Albertovna said:


> I agree with you, still I think this will suit a made-up country. Texas as a country does not look natural either.



Contention of the most part of science fiction books doesn't look too much natural, but is this a reason to write them in unnatural language?
I'd suggest the followng names, which are at least correct with regard to the language:
Царство (империя) Новый (Великий) Техас
Новотехасское царство (Новотехасская империя).


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## LilianaB

I agree with Maroseika.


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