# Worker's house



## Linnets

Hi,
I need to know how to write in Hungarian "Worker's (public) house", that kind of bar where workers used to gather, play cards and drink a beer after work (I think they were fairly common in Communist times). In my native language (Italian) it's _circolo dei lavoratori_ or _casa del popolo_ (the ones which were supported by leftist parties). _Circolo_ isn't actually a bar, I think _club_ would be a better translation even if it the word in Italian does not have the exclusiveness of the English club culture.
Best regards and thanks in advance.


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## bibax

_Circolo dei lavoratori_ is *munkáskör *and _circolo del popolo_ is *népkör* in Hungarian (Népkör is also a Hungarian society for furthering culture and education). However I think that the Hungarian workers used to drink in common pubs during the "Communist" times (like their Czech and Slovak colleagues did in Czechoslovakia).

BTW, in the Czech Republic many restaurants, esp in villages and small towns, still have the name _"Lidový dům"_ (= Casa del popolo) or _"Dělnický dům"_ (= Casa dei lavoratori), they were originally founded before the WWII by various societies mostly connected with the soc-dem party. Nowadays they are not connected to any political party or cultural society. They are merely common restaurants.


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## francisgranada

Another existing term is *Munkásotthon* that corresponds better to "Worker's house", though I think it's rather the analogy of the Czech _Dělnický dům" _that Bibax has mentioned. I don't really know what workers did in those "munkásotthons" ...


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## Linnets

Thanks for all your replies.


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## Zsanna

Hello Linnets,
I think it may be useful to know a bit more about either the context or the "institution" itself. (Maybe both.) I don't have the impression that we've managed to find "the" answer yet.

Is/was it a place where only (exclusively or mainly) workers went and other people weren't really allowed? In that case were they run by a special organisation (e.g. trade union, county council, etc.)?
Are we talking about places that still exist?
Is it just a bar that is not "posh"?


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## Linnets

Zsanna said:


> I think it may be useful to know a bit more about either the context or the "institution" itself. (Maybe both.) I don't have the impression that we've managed to find "the" answer yet. Is/was it a place where only (exclusively or mainly) workers went and other people weren't really allowed? In that case were they run by a special organisation (e.g. trade union, county council, etc.)?
> Are we talking about places that still exist?
> Is it just a bar that is not "posh"?



Hi,
I'm the editor of a book that is going to be published by the company I work for.
The passage is this:

«Non era molto grande. Era attraversato da un’arteria principale, che collegava Budapest a Zagabria e Lubiana, quella che avevano percorso fino a poco prima. L’abitato si sviluppava essenzialmente lungo quella strada. C’era un monumento ai caduti, una sorta di circolo, osteria, bar con la scritta: _Forgalomban a munkavállalók_, “circolo dei lavoratori” in ungherese.»

Translated into English:

“It was not very big. It was crossed by a major road connecting Budapest to Ljubljana, the one they've passed through a little time before. The village was set out along that road. There were a war memorial and a sort of club, tavern or bar with a sign, _Forgalomban a munkavállalók_, 'Workers' public house' in Hungarian language.”

Of course _Forgalomban a munkavállalók_ does _not_ mean 'Workers' (public) house': it is just the answer given by Google Translate for the Italian expression _circolo dei lavoratori_. I need to know the correct Hungarian word(s). What would be the sign put above the tavern's door in Hungarian language?

I hope it is clearer now.


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## Ateesh6800

Please scrap "forgalomban a munkavállalók". 

So one question: are we talking about a piece of Hungarian realia, something that DOES exist in Hungary and therefore has a name in Hungarian, or are we looking for a Hungarian term that best reflects the Italian phrase describing something ficticious?

If it was Hungarian realia, I'd probably use "Munkáskör". It is also a verbatim equivalent that would stand, considering that the context gives further support.


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## Zsanna

I'm afraid I still couldn't suggest a straightforward translation because this is not an expression that sounds "normal" to me in any context I can think about.
Please note that a word by word translation would be something like: "workers in traffic".

But it is not "workers" in the traditional sense (blue collar, lower working class) but anybody who is employed to do a job. It is a fairly up to date form, from after the changes (before that _munkaerő_ was used more often). 

Neither it is "traffic" in its first meaning (= flow of vehicles), it could be "in circolo", though. (Without a context, it is difficult to say more.)
However, it is not used for people in general but for things (and even then you would add another word after it). 
E.g. a forgalomban _lévő_ buszjegyek (= bus tickets - _being_ currently - in use)

Finally, I don't think that the sign indicates _a sort of _a bar even if the term existed or was really used. (The bar itself could be like the one in your description but independently from the sign in question.)

The only thing I could imagine (but even that with only an optimistic 5% of a chance) was that it was some humorous sign that these roadside small inns can come up with occasionally, to indicate that if potential employers were looking for worforce they could find them there... (The funny bit would be the use of the first word which fits a HR officer's vocabulary rather than a roadside pub's.)

Is there any reference to anything like that in the context? 

P.S. I have just noticed Ateesh's post and I suppose " Please scrap..." indicates that he doesn't think it is a valid, real expression in Hungarian, either. (But he knows it that if it is to be translated, you cannot just "scrap it" that easily...) However, I think we could forget all these "munkáskör" (and the such) expressions because there is no reference to it being dated to that extent. (Can't see how it could be a verbatim equivalent or how the "context" - not much that I've seen - would give support for it, sorry.)​


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## Zsanna

A sudden thought:
Did I understand well that it is a Hungarian book that is translated into Italian? 
Could you give the date when it was written?


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## Linnets

Zsanna said:


> I'm afraid I still couldn't suggest a straightforward translation because this is not an expression that sounds "normal" to me in any context I can think about.
> Please note that a word by word translation would be something like: "workers in traffic".
> 
> But it is not "workers" in the traditional sense (blue collar, lower working class) but anybody who is employed to do a job. It is a fairly up to date form, from after the changes (before that _munkaerő_ was used more often).
> 
> Neither it is "traffic" in its first meaning (= flow of vehicles), it could be "in circolo", though. (Without a context, it is difficult to say more.)
> However, it is not used for people in general but for things (and even then you would add another word after it).
> E.g. a forgalomban _lévő_ buszjegyek (= bus tickets - _being_ currently - in use)
> 
> Finally, I don't think that the sign indicates _a sort of _a bar even if the term existed or was really used. (The bar itself could be like the one in your description but independently from the sign in question.)
> 
> The only thing I could imagine (but even that with only an optimistic 5% of a chance) was that it was some humorous sign that these roadside small inns can come up with occasionally, to indicate that if potential employers were looking for worforce they could find them there... (The funny bit would be the use of the first word which fits a HR officer's vocabulary rather than a roadside pub's.)
> 
> Is there any reference to anything like that in the context?
> 
> P.S. I have just noticed Ateesh's post and I suppose " Please scrap..." indicates that he doesn't think it is a valid, real expression in Hungarian, either. (But he knows it that if it is to be translated, you cannot just "scrap it" that easily...) However, I think we could forget all these "munkáskör" (and the such) expressions because there is no reference to it being dated to that extent. (Can't see how it could be a verbatim equivalent or how the "context" - not much that I've seen - would give support for it, sorry.)
> 
> Did I understand well that it is a Hungarian book that is translated into Italian?
> Could you give the date when it was written?[​



The book isn't a Hungarian one. It's a book by an Italian author speaking about Hungary (in that passage). He invented a lot of situations and also that tavern/bar with a Hungarian plate above the door. But, since he doesn't know Hungarian, he got from Google Translate that awkward expression which doesn't have anything to do with a bar. I asked for a more proper sign in Hungarian that would be put above the door of a bar frequented by workers/common people (yes, not a posh one, rather a popular one).


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## Ateesh6800

Linnets said:


> But, since he doesn't know Hungarian, he got from Google Translate that awkward expression which doesn't have anything to do with a bar.



This says a *lot* about the standard of quality the writer follows. 

I would not hesitate to use the word *"munkáskör"* (_"Circle of Workers"_); these have existed along with "Iparoskör" ("Artisans' Circles") and "Olvasókör" ("Reading Circles") since well before the communist era as social clubs of workers, artisans, or farmers. It is a clear candidate for a plate above the door. They served as clubs; not clubs in the English sense, but rather community spaces; people would bring their own food and play cards, celebrate namedays (yes) and the 1st of May, read out the newspapers for the illiterate, and organise social struggle.

*"Munkásotthon"* would also work. Also a good candidate for a plate. It is, however, a somewhat larger state-maintained center of activities with a stage, ballroom, library, etc. It is in the league of "művelődési ház", "művelődési otthon", "kultúrház" (all names for state-financed local community centres maintained for official celebrations, stage performances, etc.). I'm not going to go into the trouble of copying a link into my response (rules call for advance moderator authorisation) but Google "Csepeli Munkásotthon". A "munkásotthon" is *not* a place where workers live; it is "otthon" ("home") in the sense of "welcoming" workers in their leisure time.

*A.*


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## Zsanna

I still wouldn't suggest either *Munkásotthon* or *Munkáskör *because of the following:

- I cannot imagine them existing (specially written up) _in a small countryside place/village (workers _were in _towns, _there were mainly _peasants_ in the countryside)

- they are very much connected to the "communist era" in Hungary (/do you want to refer to that period like this?)

- the functionality of the place is fairly obscure by now (but I certainly wouldn't think of a sort of a bar if I heard those expressions)

If reference to the era (and politics) was not important but to give a name to a small countryside meeting/drinking place, I would simplify the thing to "*kocsma*" because this is what comes to mind first. (But it depends what aspect you want to express more.) It is not posh, people drink, chat, even play cards there (though not very often, I would think). 
In the countryside "social conscience" was not exactly priority no1 in Hungary.


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## Ateesh6800

Dear Zsanna, the author's attitude (using Google Translate) completely shows that he's writing fiction. In that sense, we need to find something that works _in his own context_, in a _theoretical possible world_.

*Kocsma* would be nice, but it is in conflict with "una sorta di circolo, osteria, bar". A kocsma is only a bar but not the rest.

Also, the word *"kocsma"* is rarely used as a sign (signs say "Italbolt").

It's a small detail, but _munkáskör, gazdakör, iparoskör, olvasókör_ etc. were all established _before_ the communist era. I live in a small agricultural town and we had each of those before World War II, my grandparents being members. My father is still a member of an _Olvasókör_.

*A.*


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## Zsanna

Dear Ateesh, it is up to the author, of course, what solution he wishes to find to his/her text. 
All we can do is just provide alternatives, explanations, etc.

I agree that it is not customary to see "kocsma" written up above the door of Hungarian "pubs" (however, I could imagine that _osteria_ or _bar_ could correspond to it) but as far as I'm concerned (and as I wrote above) it is neither really customary to see _munkáskör_ written up anywhere ... and as we do not know what _circolo_ is supposed to convey really (at least concerning the intention of the author), the minimum is to warn Linnets that the author may want something whose equivalent may not exist in a Hungarian context and decide what is more important for him.


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