# Me gusta, me cae bien, me duele



## abuelodeloslindosnietos

Aprendí que los verbos _aburrir, bastar, caer bien⁄mal, dar asco, disgustar, doler, encantar, encantar, faltar, fascinar, gustar, importar, interesar, molestar, parecer, picar, quedar, volver loco_ se llama «verbos parecidos», y necesitan cuidado por un angloparlante, porque el dirección del acción es opuesto que eso en inglés.

Pero, ¿cual puedo determinar que un verbo es «parecido»? 

Por ejemplo, ¿tiene _odiar_ el mismo uso a _gustar? 
_
Diccionarios de español no indica nunca. ¿Por que no? ¿Es el concepto de «verbo parecido» significativo solamente a angloparlantes estudiando español?

¿Son listas mas o menos definitivos o completo de verbos parecidos?


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## vertebrado

What is a verbo parecido? could you explain it in English, please?


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

I've learned that there are a number of verbs, like _gustar_, that seem to be referred to as _verbos parecidos_. They are verbs which, in Spanish, have their direction of action reversed compared to the seemingly corresponding English verb, so the English direct object becomes the Spanish subject, and the English subject becomes the Spanish indirect object.

That is:

In English, I say "I like coffee."

In English, I could also say "Coffee appeals to me."

"Like" could be translated as "gustar," but in Spanish the usage is analogous to the second English example:

NOT "I like coffee" -> "Me gusto café," but
"The coffee appeals to me" -> "Me le gusta café."

I'm trying to find out how an English-speaker figures out _which_ Spanish verbs belong in this category.


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## Gabriel

He drives me crazy.
Él me vuelve loco.

I don't see the "different direction of the action" here, as I do in others:

Michel likes this food.
Esta comida le gusta a Miguel.


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

I've learned that there are a number of verbs, like _gustar_, that seem to be referred to as _verbos parecidos_. They are verbs which, in Spanish, have their direction of action reversed compared to the obvious English translation, so in Spanish the subject and objects are reversed.

That is:

In English, I say "I like coffee."

In English, I could also say "Coffee appeals to me."

The single word "Like" could be translated as "gustar," but in Spanish the usage is analogous to the second sentence.

NOT "I like coffee" -> "Me gusto café," but
"The coffee appeals to me" -> "Me le gusta café."

I'm trying to find out how an English-speaker figures out which Spanish verbs belong in this category.

Since you are a Spanish speaker, you probably have some name for "those strange English verbs."


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## Gabriel

I don't think that this list is a list of verbs that are called "verbos parecidos". I think it's a list of "verbos parecidos" (entre ellos) (= similar to each other) in that they have the same characteristic in that they are used with opposite directionj than in English.


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

Gabriel said:


> He drives me crazy.
> Él me vuelve loco.
> 
> I don't see the "different direction of the action" here, as I do in others:
> 
> Michel likes this food.
> Esta comida le gusta a Miguel.


Encontré eso ejemplo para buscando por Internet por «verbos parecidos.» Quizás la pagina donde lo encontré es erróneo.


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## Gabriel

abuelodeloslindosnietos said:


> I've learned that there are a number of verbs [that], in Spanish, have their direction of action reversed compared to the seemingly corresponding English verb, so the English direct object becomes the Spanish subject, and the English subject becomes the Spanish indirect object.
> 
> I'm trying to find out how an English-speaker figures out _which_ Spanish verbs belong in this category.


I would argue that, in fact, those verbs have the direction reversed IN ENGLISH. 

Just joking, of course, but what I mean is that we Spanish speakers have the same problem to learn these "reversed" verbs in English than you have to learn them in Spanish.

And, I am afraid, for both of us the only way to learn which verbs belong to this category is memory and practice.


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## Gabriel

Note that "parecidos" means "similar".


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

Gabriel said:


> I don't think that this list is a list of verbs that are called "verbos parecidos". I think it's a list of "verbos parecidos" (entre ellos) (= similar to each other) in that they have the same characteristic in that they are used with opposite directionj than in English.


That makes sense.

OK, ¿es algun nombre por eso grupo de verbos, un lista comprehensiva de esos, o un método por un angloparlante determinar esos con un diccionario?

Por ejemplo, ¿cual puedo determinar si _odiar_ es similar a gustar?


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

Gabriel said:


> I would argue that, in fact, those verbs have the direction reversed IN ENGLISH.
> 
> Just joking, of course, but what I mean is that we Spanish speakers have the same problem to learn these "reversed" verbs in English than you have to learn them in Spanish.


Creo que tuve cuidado no decir cuál idioma es correcto... o natural... o lógico. A mi le gustan los interesante diferencias.





> And, I am afraid, for both of us the only way to learn which verbs belong to this category is memory and practice.


Ay, ay, a mí no me gusta memorización y practica.


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## Gabriel

abuelodeloslindosnietos said:


> In English, I say "I like coffee."
> 
> In English, I could also say "Coffee appeals to me."
> 
> The single word "Like" could be translated as "gustar," but in Spanish the usage is analogous to the second sentence.
> 
> NOT "I like coffee" -> "Me gusto café," but
> "The coffee appeals to me" -> "Me le gusta café."


Ok, slow down.

"Gustar" has two different meanings in Spanish. Or better said, two different constructions.

One is "Yo gusto café", which is equivalent to "Yo deseo café". Just like in English. "I like coffee = I want coffee".

The other meaning is reagarding what appeals you.
In English, you would also say "I like coffee" to express that you enjoy drinking coffee.
This is the case where Spanish gets reversed. The following is not the usual order but is correct and easier to understand:
El café me gusta.

As you see, when you say "Michel likes coffee", "Michel" is the subject and "coffee" is the object.
But when you say "El café le gusta (a Michel)", "el café" is the subject and "Michel" is the object.

Now, unlike English, the subject doesn't need to come before the object.
"Coffee Michel likes" sounds like something that Yoda would say in Star Wars.
But "A Miguel le gusta el café" is not only correct in Spanish, but it's more usual than "El café le gusta a Miguel" (which is also correct).

So, an interesting thing happens. While the function of the subjec and object are reversed, the order of the persons is not reversed:
Michel likes coffee. (Michel = subject, coffee = object).
A Miguel le gusta el café. (Miguel = object, café = subject).


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## 797102030aaa

I agree Gabriel, but you hardly ever hear anyone say yo gusto..... so forget that, as a beginner you just have to get used to the differences in grammar between the two languages with practice. But don't worry, you'll get it. All those verbs that you listed up there are used in similar fashion to "gustar" and there are lots of them. Like me duel*en los *pies/my feet hurt/ yo les caigo muy bien/they like me. It's awkward at the beginning for everyone to get comfortable with this "reverse structure"


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## Gabriel

797102030aaa said:


> All those verbs that you listed up there are used in similar fashion to "gustar" and there are lots of them. Like me duel*en los *pies/my feet hurt.



Bluebird (let me call you Bluebird, your screen name is a pain in the... tongue)
That's not a good example. "Gustar" and "doler" don't follow the same structure. See:

I like my feet: I = subject. My feet = object.
(A mí) Me gustan mis pies / Mis pies me gustan (A mí): Mis pies = subject. A mí = object.

My feet hurt. My feet = subject. No object.
(A mí) Me duelen los pies = Los pies me duelen (a mí). Los pies = subject. A mí = object.
So, unlike the first case, here "los pies / my feet" is the subject, both in English and Spanish.

Also when "hurt" means "lastimar":

These shoes hurt me.
Estos zapatos me lastiman (a mí).
Same structure.

Regarding "yo gusto café", not in Argentina, but in a good part of the Spanish speaking world a good translation for:
"Would you like a cup of coffee?" would be
"¿No gusta (usted) una taza de café?"


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## 797102030aaa

Hi Gabriel, I was just pointing out the back to front structure, which is what the question is about, not the finer details of what a subject/object indirect is and its role in a sentence


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## Gabriel

But as you can see in the previous post, there is no "front to back structure" in Spanish.


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## levmac

abuelodeloslindosnietos said:


> Aprendí que los verbos _aburrir, bastar, caer bien⁄mal, dar asco, disgustar, doler, encantar, encantar, faltar, fascinar, gustar, importar, interesar, molestar, parecer, picar, quedar, volver loco_ se llama «verbos parecidos», y necesitan cuidado por un angloparlante, porque el dirección del acción es opuesto que eso en inglés.
> 
> Pero, ¿cual puedo determinar que un verbo es «parecido»?
> 
> Por ejemplo, ¿tiene _odiar_ el mismo uso a _gustar?
> _
> Diccionarios de español no indica nunca. ¿Por que no? ¿Es el concepto de «verbo parecido» significativo solamente a angloparlantes estudiando español?
> 
> ¿Son listas mas o menos definitivos o completo de verbos parecidos?



1) "Verbos parecidos" means similar verbs, as someone pointed out above, so you will find, say, an explanation of gustar, followed by a note saying "similar verbs include...". This is not a technical term for these verbs. Sometimes, in English, we refer to these as "back to front", because that's how they seem to us.

2) To return to your question, if a verb functions like this in Spanish, it will normally have an example sentence in a decent dictionary. If you look up "like" in a decent dictionary, it should have "me gusta el café" as an example to show you it functions differently. There are not many more of these verbs, you named the principal ones.


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## _SantiWR_

abuelodeloslindosnietos said:


> *Los* Diccionarios de español no *lo* indica*n* nunca. ¿Por qu*é* no? ¿Es el concepto de «verbo parecido» significativo solamente *para* angloparlantes estudiando español?



Exactly, it's something that, at most, belongs to Spanish-English material. I've never come across a list like that, though.


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## 797102030aaa

Gabriel said:


> But as you can see in the previous post, there is no "front to back structure" in Spanish.



.......ah yes there is (compared to the English verb structure) you even admitted that yourself in a previous post...


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## Gabriel

797102030aaa said:


> .......ah yes there is (compared to the English verb structure) you even admitted that yourself in a previous post...


Could you please elaborate?
All long this thread I've shown how you can change the order in Spanish that it's the subject-object structure what matters. I did say that one order is more usual than the other, but, IMHO, teaching that it's the order what is reversed in these verbs is a mistake and misleading.

Michel likes cofee = A Miguel le gusta el café.

This is the most usual order in Spanish, and the order is the same than in Engish.
You can also say "El café le gusta a Miguel", and the order is reversed. But both sentences (with the two orders) are technically the same.
Café is the subject and Miguel is the object, in both of them.
And THAT is what is reversed from English, where Michel is the subject and coffee is the object.

This is NOT the case with "My feet hurt" = "Me duelen los pies" (more usual) = "Los pies me duelen" (less usual but correct and not that unusual anyway), where My feet / Los pies is the subject in English and both Spanish orders. The difference is that "doler" (in this usage) requires an object, unlike "hurt" (in this usage again).


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## Fmorondo

1. Por responder a la pregunta original: no, odiar no forma parte de esta lista de verbos: "Yo odio a mis enemigos".

2. La lista tiene en común que esos verbos suelen tener un pronombre átono (me, le, te...) que marca la dirección de la acción: "Le disgustó el tono de su discurso", "Me encanta la ropa que llevas", "Nos importa que apruebes la carrera". Es un complemento que a veces puede estar duplicado para hacerlo más explícito: "A mi novia le interesa la historia". Habitualmente, la construcción es complemento+verbo+sujeto.

3. En algunas ocasiones y con algunas construcciones algunos de estos verbos no necesitan ese objeto indirecto: "Cuando duelen los pies hay que descansar", "no importa que llegues tarde, pero ven a la fiesta".


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## 797102030aaa

Gabriel said:


> Could you please elaborate?
> All long this thread I've shown how you can change the order in Spanish that it's the subject-object structure what matters. I did say that one order is more usual than the other, but, IMHO, teaching that it's the order what is reversed in these verbs is a mistake and misleading.
> 
> Michel likes cofee = A Miguel le gusta el café.
> 
> This is the most usual order in Spanish, and the order is the same than in Engish.
> You can also say "El café le gusta a Miguel", and the order is reversed. But both sentences (with the two orders) are technically the same.
> Café is the subject and Miguel is the object, in both of them.
> And THAT is what is reversed from English, where Michel is the subject and coffee is the object.
> 
> This is NOT the case with "My feet hurt" = "Me duelen los pies" (more usual) = "Los pies me duelen" (less usual but correct and not that unusual anyway), where My feet / Los pies is the subject in English and both Spanish orders. The difference is that "doler" (in this usage) requires an object, unlike "hurt" (in this usage again).



Couldn't disagree with you more. Yo les caigo muy bien is muy backwards compared to English, and so is me duelen los pies. We don't say : my hurt feet. Pretty straight forward, I'm not sure why you continue to flog a dead horse


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## Uriel-

We have lots of verbs like this in English, they just aren't the same ones.  Me gustas functions exactly the same way as you disgust me (although the meanings are totally opposite).  Se me olvidó (I forgot) looks incomprehensible until you see se me ocurre and realize you say something similar (it occurs to me).  I don't know if there is a specific term for these verbs (ones in which you are receiving the action instead of initiating it), but we have them, too.


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## Gabriel

797102030aaa said:


> ... is muy backwards compared to English, and so is me duelen los pies. We don't say : my hurt feet. Pretty straight forward.


And what about "Los pies me duelen"? Doesn't it sound like it has the same order (and, by the way, the same subject) than "My feet hurt"?


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## Uriel-

That helps a little.  I think word order is less important to a Spanish speaker because the verb endings tell you who is doing what to whom, so you can say either Me duelen los pies o los pies me duelen and it's the same thing, so what's the fuss?  But in English, with no such clues from our verbs, we rely on word order to tell us who's doing what to whom, and changing the order can greatly affect the meaning, so we are very sensitive to it.  I think those of us learning Spanish all go through a phase where we stare at Spanish sentences in horror trying to figure out who the verb refers to, because the object often comes first, the subject last, and we misread the whole thing a few times.


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## Gabriel

Exactly Uriel!!!
That's the point.
In Spanish, you have to pay less attention to the order and more attention to what's the subject and what's the object.

At first sight, it might seem that "My feet hurt" and "Me duelen los pies", until you figure that the subject of both is the feet, and that the Spanish version can also be stated "Los pies me duelen" and it's exactly the same sentence.

At the opposite end, you have "Michel likes coffee".
At first sight, it might seem that it's like "A Miguel le gusta el café" because it's the same order, until you figure that the subject in the English version is "Michel" but in the Spanish version it's "el café", and that you can reverse the Spanish version to make it "El café le gusta a Miguel".
You can tell what's the subject by using a person that is not third singular like "the coffee" / "el café".

Michel likes coffee, Michel and Anna like coffee. (note Michel like*s* / Michel and Anna like)
A Miguel le gusta el café. A Miguel y Ana les gusta el café. (note in both case we have "gusta" because the subject is "el café").

Another hint: Subjects never start with a preposition. So things like "A Miguel" / "A mí" can never be the subject.
And to complicate things more, unlike English, the subject can be omitted (implicit) in Spanish. What's the subject here?:
Por Calos haría cualquier cosa.
Not "Por Carlos" because it starts with a preposition.
Not "cualquier cosa" because that's not the answer to the question "Who "haría"?
The subject can be yo, usted, él, ella, eso, la corporación, Julieta, or any other that matches with the conjugated verb "haría". Hopefully, you'll know from the context.


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## Uriel-

I think, to answer the OP's question, there are lots of lists you can look up that will help you with these verbs.  They're usually presented in textbooks as "Verbs Like Gustar".  But what you learn later is that these verbs go both ways, just as they do in English:  I can say Me fascinas -- You fascinate me, Te fascino -- I fascinate you, Me fascinan los carros -- cars fascinate me or I am fascinated by cars, or (I suppose) Me fascina que nunca puedes encontrar tus llaves -- it fascinates me that you can never find your keys.  So it just takes a lot of practice.


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## JennyTW

OMG! I just spent AGES writing a post and somehow managed to wipe it. Well, the crux of it was that I think Gabriel is spot on with everything he's said. 

And that also, of the original list, less than half the verbs are actually subject/object reversed compared to English. (Check them in the house dictionary). 

I'll try to rewrite the post later, time permitting.


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## abuelodeloslindosnietos

This is my understanding.

1) In English, I didn't learn any name for "verbs with usage similar to 'like.'" English speakers do not recognize them as a group. They mean what they mean. They are used as they are used. The "direction of action" is part of the meaning. 

When I was a kid, the soda brand 7up still used the slogan "You like it. It likes you." An English speaker knows that "you like it" means "it has a good flavor." "It likes you" means "It doesn't upset your stomach."

2) The situation is the same in Spanish for Spanish speakers: there isn't any group of "verbs similar to _gustar_."

3) It was a ludicrous error on my part to think that there was a category named "verbos parecidos" (analogous to "verbos reflexivos.") 

4) There can't be any such category, any more than there could be a category of "English words whose customary Spanish translation means something a little different from the English."  It isn't a property of _gustar_. it isn't a property of _like_. it is only a property of the most commonly chosen _translations_ between English and Spanish. 

5) If I am unlucky, I look in my little English-Spanish dictionary and see "like (to): querer, gustar, agradar."  It's up to me to read the sample sentences carefully. Or, I look in my all-Spanish dictionary and read "gustar _v intr._ 1 agradar una cosa o resultar agradable o atractiva: _me gusta leer libros de historia,"_ and again it's up to me to read the example carefully. 

6) If I am lucky, the dictionary might have a usage note: http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=gustar "Note: It is not expressed this way in English."

7) And, finally: the usage example for _odiar_ in one of my dictionaries is "odio la cruelidad con los animales." In WordReference, "Odiaba aquel trabajo pero no tenía más opción que continuar haciéndolo." I conclude that to an English speaker, _odiar_ does not follow the same pattern as _gustar.
_
"She likes the music of Enrique Granados." -> «A ella le gusta la música de Enrique Granados.» Different structure from English.
"She hates lies." -> «Ella odia las mentiras.» Same structure as English.

Is that right?


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## infernal war

It is not a matter of verbs. You can use any verb in any possition.
1.Me gusta posponer las cosas.
2.Posponer las cosas me gusta.
1. Yo desconcierto la gente  a menudo 
2. A menudo desconcierto la gente.
As you have been explained, there are more common structures. Even both are correct, in the examples above, 1 are more common (and sound better to me)


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## chileno

You are talking about "false cognates" and "cognates"

Check those terms up.


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