# would have never .... would had never



## camanance1528

Hello everybody,
I´m a native Spanish speaker and have a big doubt about the use of "would + verb"

which is correct? is there any grammatical rule?
I would have never gone if I´d known you were not going.
I would had never gone if I´d known you were not going.

thanks


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## gengo

camanance1528 said:


> which is correct? is there any grammatical rule?
> I would have never gone if I´d known you were not going.
> I would had never gone if I´d known you were not going.



Also:   I would never have gone if I'd known you were not going.  This one sounds best to me, although the one above is also correct.


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## Valeria Mesalina

La segunda no es correcta. Y en la primera tienes que cambiar el never de sitio:  I would never have gone


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## sound shift

Coincido con Valeria.


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## gengo

Valeria Mesalina said:


> Y en la primera tienes que cambiar el never de sitio:  I would never have gone



Not in American English, at least.  The position of "never" is optional, and both are perfectly correct.


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## aztlaniano

camanance1528 said:


> _I would have never gone if I´d known you were not going_.
> I would had never gone if I´d known you were not going.


Suena mejor:
_I would never have gone if I'd known._
Y mejor aún:
_I would never have gone had I known. _

La primera no la usaría yo, me suena mal, pero las tres versiones son correctas.


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## Dlyons

camanance1528 said:


> Hello everybody,
> I´m a native Spanish speaker and have a big doubt about the use of "would + verb"
> 
> which is correct? is there any grammatical rule?
> I would have never gone if I´d known you were not going.
> I would had never gone if I´d known you were not going.
> 
> thanks



Although I'd prefer
"I never would have gone if I'd known you were not going."

"would had ... " isn't possible in English.

In fact, I don't think "would + past tense" is possible e.g.
"I would like ..."
"I would liked ..."
because "would" suggests something in the future.  In your example, the "I would have never gone" is in a future relative to "if I´d known you were not going".


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## gengo

aztlaniano said:


> La primera no la usaría yo, me suena mal, pero las tres versiones son correctas.



Yes, and the "never" can move up even closer to the front.

_I would have __*never* __gone if I'd known._
_I would *never* have gone __if I'd known.
__I *never* __would __have gone __if I'd known._

I personally like the second of the above three, but all three are definitely correct grammatically, and I hear all three used frequently.


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## camanance1528

Thank you all.....


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## Ynez

camanance, after "would" you can only use the infinitive without "to" or bare infinitive (the same with another name). So it has to be "would have", etc.


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## gengo

Ynez said:


> camanance, after "would" you can only use the infinitive without "to" or bare infinitive (the same with another name). So it has to be "would have", etc.



What you say is basically true, but there are exceptions, such as:

Would coming after dinner be too late?
Would that he had come.


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## camanance1528

so in general I can use as a rule "WOULD + INFINITE" having in mind that there are some exceptions


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## Ynez

gengo said:


> What you say is basically true, but there are exceptions, such as:
> 
> Would coming after dinner be too late?
> Would that he had come.



The first is a question, the subject is "coming after dinner" and it is "would + be".

The second sentence I don't know or understand. Could you try to express it with different words, please?


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## gengo

Ynez said:


> The first is a question, the subject is "coming after dinner" and it is "would + be".



You are absolutely right.  Sorry about that.



> The second sentence I don't know or understand. Could you try to express it with different words, please?



This is an archaic form, but it is still used once in a while for effect.  It isn't a direct violation of your rule because it requires "that..." between "would" and the verb, but I gave it because the verb that follows "would" is conjugated in the subjunctive form.

Would that you were here with me.
Ojalá que estuvieras aquí conmigo.


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## Ynez

gengo said:


> Would that you were here with me.
> Ojalá que estuvieras aquí conmigo.



Thank you. Really interesting...I had never seen a sentence like that.


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## acher

You will almost definitely never hear anybody talk like that these days outside a period drama, but it is correct  We don't talk like that anymore!


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## Ynez

acher said:


> You will almost definitely never hear anybody talk like that these days outside a period drama, but it is correct  We don't talk like that anymore!



Now that we know the correct form, could you please tell us how you'd say this in colloquial speech?

Anyhow, I guess in writing it still should be this way.


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## chamyto

Valeria Mesalina said:


> La segunda no es correcta. Y en la primera tienes que cambiar el never de sitio:  I would never have gone



No estoy de acuerdo en absoluto

Porque se dice : I have* never* been to a foreign country. Es decir que el adverbio va entre el _auxiliar_ have y el participio


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## Ynez

gengo said:


> Also:   I would never have gone if I'd known you were not going.  This one sounds best to me, although the one above is also correct.



chamyto, as you can see, natives also say that option is the best. We learn that a word like "never" goes after the first auxiliary verb, so in your example it goes after "have". Here it goes after "would".

We also know now that nothing much happens if "never" changes place. Better for us.


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## chamyto

I´ll ask my tutor of English Philology


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## Ynez

chamyto said:


> I´ll ask my tutor of English Philology




I have already asked the Queen of England.


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## chamyto

he he he he


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## acher

Ynez said:


> Now that we know the correct form, could you please tell us how you'd say this in colloquial speech?
> 
> Anyhow, I guess in writing it still should be this way.



We'd probably just say "I wish that you were here" - "would", whilst technically corrrect, is so formal and archaic that I don't think you'd even write it to be honest, it's like something out of Dickens, or a period play. I guess it's the same as in Spanish - whilst "quisiera" is technically accurate, everyone uses "me gustaría" instead


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## Basenjigirl

gengo said:


> Also: _*  "I would never have gone if I'd known you were not going*_."  This one sounds best to me.



Ditto.


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## Ynez

acher said:


> We'd probably just say "I wish that you were here" - "would", whilst technically corrrect, is so formal and archaic that I don't think you'd even write it to be honest, it's like something out of Dickens, or a period play. I guess it's the same as in Spanish - whilst "quisiera" is technically accurate, everyone uses "me gustaría" instead



Thank you, acher. I had misunderstood, and didn't notice you were referring to the archaic sentence. 

"quisiera" is not used colloquially in Spain, but I think it is very normal in many areas of America.


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## aztlaniano

En cuanto a los comentarios de chamyto e Ynes:
No creo que haya normativas tan exigentes sobre la sintaxis.
Como señaló gengo:


gengo said:


> Yes, and the "never" can move up even closer to the front.
> _I would have __*never* __gone if I'd known._
> _I would *never* have gone __if I'd known._
> _I *never* __would __have gone __if I'd known._
> I personally like the second of the above three, but all three are definitely correct grammatically, and I hear all three used frequently.


De hecho, se podría darle la vuelta a toda la oración:
(Had I/If I'd) known, I never would have/would never have/would have never ...


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## Ynez

It was already said that the adverb could change place, aztlaniano.


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## aztlaniano

Ynez said:


> It was already said that the adverb could change place, aztlaniano.


Ah, but the authority you cited was merely the Queen of England. Now you have mine, as well.


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## Ynez

aztlaniano said:


> Ah, but the authority you cited was merely the Queen of England. Now you have mine, as well.


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