# Noun of agent and patient اسم الفاعل والمفعول من الأفعال المقصورة



## Ibn Nacer

Hello,

What is the nun of agent and patient of the verb : زَنَى أَتَى 

How to write the patern of this type of verb?
Do you know of other verbs of this type?

What is the difference between "زَانٍ" and "زَانِي " ? 

Thank you very much.


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## Ghabi

Hello. It's زَانٍ when indefinite and زَانِي when definite. When it's in the _manSuub_, it would become زَانِاً when indefinite and  زَانِيَ when definite.


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## Cilquiestsuens

I think you are talking about manqoos words, one of which is the ismu faa3il of the naaqiS verbs.... They follow a specific (simplified) pattern

Zaanin is indefinite marfoo3 and majroor
Zaaniyan is indefinite manSoob
Zaanii is definite (with article al) marfoo3 and majroor
Zaaniya is definite (with article al) manSoob.


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## Ibn Nacer

Hello


Ghabi said:


> Hello. It's زَانٍ when indefinite and زَانِي when definite. When it's in the _manSuub_, it would become زَانِاً when indefinite and زَانِيَ when definite.


 


Cilquiestsuens said:


> I think you are talking about manqoos words, one of which is the ismu faa3il of the naaqiS verbs.... They follow a specific (simplified) pattern
> 
> Zaanin is indefinite marfoo3 and majroor
> Zaaniyan is indefinite manSoob
> Zaanii is definite (with article al) marfoo3 and majroor
> Zaaniya is definite (with article al) manSoob.


 
Ok, very good, thank you very much.

I think that the nun of agent of زَنَى is زَانِي waht do you think ?



Cilquiestsuens said:


> I think you are talking about manqoos words, one of which is the ismu faa3il of the naaqiS verbs.... They follow a specific (simplified) pattern
> 
> Zaanin is indefinite marfoo3 and majroor
> Zaaniyan is indefinite manSoob
> Zaanii is definite (with article al) marfoo3 and majroor
> Zaaniya is definite (with article al) manSoob.


 
Can you write these four words with the Arabic characters please?


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## Ghabi

Ibn Nacer said:


> Can you  write these four words with the Arab character please?


But I've already written them.


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## cherine

Yes, but you made a tiny mistake:
The manSuub is زانيًا (you forgot the yaa2).

So, the words are
زانٍ indefinite marfuu3 and majruur.
زانيًا indefinite manSuub.
الزاني definite marfuu3 and majruur.
الزانيَ definite manSuub.

Ibn Nacer, I don't understand the title of the thread! what do you mean by "the nun of agent and patient"?


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## Cilquiestsuens

Cherine, I think the meaning is : the noun of agent = (ism faa3il) and patient = (ism maf3uul).... My guess..... We've not discussed the latter here.....

I don't really think that nuns are involved in the discussion....


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## cherine

I thought the same.

Thanks for the clarification, Cilquiestsuens.  I'll edit the title.


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## Ibn Nacer

Hello,

Thank you all very much.

What is ism faa3il and ism maf3uul of the verb : زَنَى  أَتَى ? Please.


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## ajami

Ibn Nacer said:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you all very much.
> 
> What is ism faa3il and ism maf3uul of the verb : زَنَى  أَتَى ? Please.




*
ism faa3il of  زنى :-.ز ا ن /الزاني/RIGHT]  zanin, ITS



 origional form is on the scale of faa3ilun is ----zani-yun


 dual is   زانيان and plural is    ز ا نون .


 الزاني ------ الزانيان -------الزانون .


ism maf3uul:-   مزني---------مزنيان ----------مزنون  

       maznoona  -------- -mzny-yan      --- mazny-un



       أت -----آتيان--------آتون   aatin-----aatiy ya-ne-----aatoona 

It means he came/the one who comes,INTRANSITVE so you 

cant make its ism almaf3ool.

All the above mentioned states are marfoo3 and in sing state zanin its both marf003 and majroor.

زانياً --------زانيين -----زانيين  za ny yan (mansoob) za ny yay ne (mansoob and majroor


  za ny yeena (mansoob and majroor).


I hope this will help you.sorry,online keyboard doesnt give me

 the option for harakat.


​*​​​


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## Ibn Nacer

"ajami", very good, thank you very much.


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## ajami

Ibn Nacer said:


> "ajami", very good, thank you very much.




May ALLAH SWT increase your thirst for the 3lmun naaf3un

 and bless you with maximum  in Arabic languge which is the 

instrument to learn ALQURAN ALKARIM AND ALAHADITH 

ALMUBARAKA.IN NAHU HUWA  JAW WA DUN KARIMUN.


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## lukebeadgcf

ajami said:


> *
> ism maf3uul:-   مزني---------مزنيان ----------مزنون
> 
> maznoona  -------- -mzny-yan      --- mazny-un
> *



I don't know that this is correct. My impression is that the passive participle of this root is مَنْزِيّ with a shadda on the ياء. Therefore the sound masculine plural would مَنْزِيّون or مَنْزِيّين in المنصوب or المجرور.


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## ajami

lukebeadgcf said:


> I don't know that this is correct. My impression is that the passive participle of this root is مَنْزِيّ with a shadda on the ياء. Therefore the sound masculine plural would مَنْزِيّون or مَنْزِيّين in المنصوب or المجرور.



 If you see carefully the transliteration you find it in the form of  double y (2 y)=ya mushada da.I have mentioned earlier that I  don't find the  option  harakat etc on yamli online keyboard.


I already told this due to the rule of t3leel this ya will be dropped.

from ism fa3il------> ra mey yoon--------ra moo na.

from ism maf3ool ------>maz  ney yoona----maznoona.


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## lukebeadgcf

But does this apply even if there is a شدة on the ياء?


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## Cilquiestsuens

lukebeadgcf said:


> But does this apply even if there is a شدة on the ياء?


 
Yes, the shaddah doesn't matter here. Ajami is right.


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## cherine

lukebeadgcf said:


> I don't know that this is correct. My impression is that the passive participle of this root is مَنْزِيّ with a shadda on the ياء. Therefore the sound masculine plural would مَنْزِيّون or مَنْزِيّين in المنصوب or المجرور.


Hi,
I don't know if this a typo or you purposely switched the order of the letters, but it's مزني and not منزي .
As for the plural, I don't think the اسم المفعول of this verb is formed like this, I believe it needs a preposition: مزنيٌّ به/معه in this case the plural will be marked through the pronoun مزنيٌّ بهم/بهن or معهم/معهن and the dual مَزْنِيٌّ بهما/معهما (I'm not sure which is the right preposition).

So, to take an easier example: the verb رمى : the اسم المفعول is مَرْمِيّ (masc.) and مَرْمِيَّة (fem.)
The dual: مَرمِيَّان - مرمِيَّتان (nominative), مرمِيَّيْن - مَرْمِيَّتَيْن (genetive and accusative)
The plural: مَرْمُون/مَرْمِين - مَرْمِيَّات


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## lukebeadgcf

> I don't know if this a typo or you purposely switched the order of the  letters, but it's مزني and not منزي .



Yes, that was a typo.



> So, to take an easier example: the verb رمى : the اسم المفعول is  مَرْمِيّ (masc.) and مَرْمِيَّة (fem.)
> The dual: مَرمِيَّان - مرمِيَّتان (nominative), مرمِيَّيْن -  مَرْمِيَّتَيْن (genetive and accusative)
> The plural: مَرْمُون/مَرْمِين - مَرْمِيَّات



Hmm... It still seems peculiar to me that the sound masculine plural of a passive participle formed for a measure I root would loose its shaddated ياء or واو. Where did you find this information? I did some digging in my Hans Wehr and I found this:

المَعْنيّون بالأمر (those concerned with the matter)

I was not able to find any other similar entries, but this one seems to support my prediction that the شدة has no morphological reason to drop out in this case.


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## ajami

lukebeadgcf said:


> Yes, that was a typo.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm... It still seems peculiar to me that the sound masculine plural of a passive participle formed for a measure I root would loose its shaddated ياء or واو. Where did you find this information? I did some digging in my Hans Wehr and I found this:
> 
> المَعْنيّون بالأمر (those concerned with the matter)
> 
> I was not able to find any other similar entries, but this one seems to support my prediction that the شدة has no morphological reason to drop out in this case.




مزنيون  is correct ya 

will not drop and it is with shadd.


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## Ibn Nacer

ajami said:


> May ALLAH SWT increase your thirst for the 3lmun naaf3un
> 
> and bless you with maximum  in Arabic languge which is the
> 
> instrument to learn ALQURAN ALKARIM AND ALAHADITH
> 
> ALMUBARAKA.IN NAHU HUWA  JAW WA DUN KARIMUN.



barakallahu fîk


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