# Romance Languages: Etymology of "to want"



## ronanpoirier

I have noticed that the verb "to want" in Portuguese and Spanish has a different root from the Fench's and Italian's one.

Portuguese / Spanish - Querer
French - Vouloir
Italian - Volere

*[**Moderator's Note:
This part of the discussion requires another thread quite obvious reasons: 
WR #10 Ask about only one topic in each thread. If you have more than one question, open a thread for each of them**.
*The same is applied to the verb "to find":

Portuguese - Achar / Encontrar
Spanish - Encontrar
French - Trouver
Italian - Trovare

The funny is that in Portuguese "trovar" means "to talk a lot" or "to flirt".

I'd like to know the origin of those verbs and why are there that difference. I also would like to know if in other languages, besides Portuguese and French, the verb "to find" is also used as "to think". (In Portuguese only the verb "achar" is ued that way.)*]*
Thanks _o/


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## vince

In French there exists a verb quérir which means "to search for"

perhaps that's where it's from?

I think volere/vouloir might be older than querer since i recall Latin phrases that use the term. and words like benevolent, voluntary, etc.

Does Catalan use *trovare or *encontrare for "to want"?


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## modus.irrealis

For the French terms, I looked them up in this dictionary.

Vouloir seems to come from Vulgar Latin volere, which derives from Classical Latin velle = "wish, want". Using Vince's hint, I also looked up quérir which ultimately comes from Latin quaerere = "search for." It seems reasonable that that could come to mean "want" in the other languages.

Trouver is a little strange. It's from an unattested Popular Latin word *tropare meaning "compose a tune." It reminds me of the word "troubadour" and I'd bet now that there's a connection -- it might even explain the Portuguese meaning.



			
				ronanpoirier said:
			
		

> I also would like to know if in other languages, besides Portuguese and French, the verb "to find" is also used as "to think". (In Portuguese only the verb "achar" is ued that way.)



Both English and Greek do, at least in the sense "I found that book very interesting" = "I thought that book was very interesting," but I'm not sure if that's what you mean.


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## jester.

vince said:
			
		

> In French there exists a verb quérir which means "to search for"
> 
> perhaps that's where it's from?
> 
> I think volere/vouloir might be older than querer since i recall Latin phrases that use the term. and words like benevolent, voluntary, etc.
> 
> Does Catalan use *trovare or *encontrare for "to want"?


I'm not entirely sure, but I think Catalan uses "trobar".

About the topic: It can clearly be noticed (I read this somewhere) that the Iberoromance languages tend to use querer from Latin quaerere, I think. Galloromance and other Romance languages tend to use voulouir, volere, ... from Latin velle.

We still need some more Romance languages in order to complete the list.


EDIT: Oops, Modus.irrealis already mentioned this... Sorry


~~~~


EDIT2: There's something else that just came to my mind. I think that Romance languages are also "inconsistent" concerning the verb to search/to seek:

Italian: cercare
French: chercher
Spanish: buscar

Should we open a new thread about this? New thread here.


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## panjabigator

I think the Catalan for to want is voler. 

"Vull un bitllet d'avio" (accent on final o) means "I want a plain ticket."


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## elroy

Ladies and gentlemen:

Please remember that the subject of this thread is 

*Romance Languages: Etymology of "to want" *

Discussions of other verbs belong in new threads.

Merci/Gracias/Grazie/Obrigado,
elroy
Moderator


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## robbie_SWE

In Romanian it's "*a vrea*" (to want) and it derives from Latin _volere._ 

Back to your other question Ronanaporier, Romanian has not only one word for "to find", but three: 

*a gasi* - unknown derivation (coresponds with the Slavic "gasiti", but means something completely different!)

*a descoperi* - Latin _disco(o)perire_
*a afla* - Latin _afflare_

 robbie


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## jmx

In Catalan :

to want -> "voler" (different from "volar", to fly)
to find -> "trobar"


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## Jhorer Brishti

Well, from what I know, the etymological root for "querer" actually derives from a latin word meaning to question or interrogate. In fact this is the same root for the english words query,question, inquire,etc.


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## panjabigator

Jhorer Brishti said:
			
		

> Well, from what I know, the etymological root for "querer" actually derives from a latin word meaning to question or interrogate. In fact this is the same root for the english words query,question, inquire,etc.



Well, that necessitates a large WOAH from me...it was in front of my eyes all along and now seems so obvious!  The question remains why I didn't notice this before!


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## Forero

ronanpoirier said:


> I have noticed that the verb "to want" in Portuguese and Spanish has a different root from the Fench's and Italian's one.
> 
> Portuguese / Spanish - Querer [English cognate Query]
> French - Vouloir [English cognate will/would]
> Italian - Volere
> 
> The same is applied to the verb "to find":
> 
> Portuguese - Achar / Encontrar
> Spanish - Hallar / Encontrar
> French - Trouver / Rencontrer
> Italian - Trovare
> 
> The funny is that in Portuguese "trovar" means "to talk a lot" or "to flirt".
> 
> I'd like to know the origin of those verbs and why are there that difference. I also would like to know if in other languages, besides Portuguese and French, the verb "to find" is also used as "to think". (In Portuguese only the verb "achar" is ued that way.)
> 
> Thanks _o/



I just thought I would add some cognates.


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## tvdxer

Derived from _"quaero" _(RAE) - to seek

SPANISH - QUERER
PORTUGUESE - QUERER

==

Derived from Latin _"volo" _(inf. "velle")(source) - to will, to be willing
CATALAN - VOLER
FRENCH - VOULOIR
ITALIAN - VOLERE
ROMANIAN - VOI (?)

Verbs / words sharing the same distant (Indo-European) ancestry as the above (source):

DUTCH - willen
ENGLISH - will
GERMAN - wollen
LITHUANIAN - velyti ("to wish, favor")
WELSH - gwell ("better")(Also used: Intertran, Wiktionary)


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## OldAvatar

tvdxer said:


> Derived from _"quaero" _(RAE) - to seek
> 
> SPANISH - QUERER
> PORTUGUESE - QUERER
> 
> ==
> 
> Derived from Latin _"volo" _(inf. "velle")(source) - to will, to be willing
> CATALAN - VOLER
> FRENCH - VOULOIR
> ITALIAN - VOLERE
> ROMANIAN - VOI (?)



In Romanian 
_to want_ = *a vrea*

*A voi, voire *has the same meaning but is an archaic form, still from Latin _volere.

_Also, the verb _to find_, *a căuta*, *căutare* in Romanian, may be related with Latin _quaero_. However, my dictionary speaks about another Latin origin, the verb _cautare.
_


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## pomar

In Italian, as it has been said, to want is "volere". From Latin _quaero _we made "chiedere" = to ask,  *to request*.


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## ayupshiplad

ronanpoirier said:


> I'd like to know the origin of those verbs and why are there that difference. I also would like to know if in other languages, besides Portuguese and French, the verb "to find" is also used as "to think". (In Portuguese only the verb "achar" is ued that way.)*]*
> Thanks _o/


 
In German, you can use to find meaning to think:

Ich finde, daß es eine ergreifende Darstellung des Lebens vor und nach der Wiedervereinigung war. 

I think that it was a moving portrayal of life before and after the reunification.


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## edgarzinho

Hello!
Well, in Spanish "allar" a cognate of Portuguese "achar" means also to think, but is much less frequent in present-day Spanish. In Portuguese from Brazil (that's the one I know best) it's omnipresent, but in Spanish, at least here in Costa Rica is barely heard in the sense of to think, but still understood. In Spanish, "encontrar" to find which is very much used can mean also "to think" <<encuentro esta situación muy dificil>> again, it is understood, but it's not used commonly. 
In believe the original meaning of English to want, is "to lack" I want an apple, used to mean "I lack an apple". In Spanish it would be "carecer" = lack. If you lack something it's sort of implied that if you are saying it it's because you desire to have it. Shakespeare I believe used this verb in the way I describe here in his writings. 
The bible in Psalm 23 says: "The Lord is thy shepherd, thou shalt not WANT". lack. 

BYE!


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## JGreco

> Well, in Spanish "allar" a cognate of Portuguese "achar" means also to think, but is much less frequent in present-day Spanish. In Portuguese from Brazil (that's the one I know best) it's omnipresent, but in Spanish, at least here in Costa Rica is barely heard in the sense of to think, but still understood.




Well in Panama the word "allar" (which is pronounced ah-zhar in Panama pretty close to the Br. Portuguese "achar" ) is alive and well in Panama and used frequently. I find pretty funny that a neighboring country such as Costa Rica can speak such a different Spanish that they speak in Panama. (I believe Costa Rica is a Highlands Spanish country versus Panama which is Caribbean speaking as is Puerto Rico and Cuba). Sorry moderators I just wanted to make a point. Sorry for digressing.


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## tvdxer

Is "allar" the word actually spelled "hallar"? (Which I learned as "to find"?)


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## Forero

tvdxer said:


> Is "allar" the word actually spelled "hallar"? (Which I learned as "to find"?)



In post #11, I mentioned "hallar" as a cognate of "achar".  Does anyone here know what Latin word this was or whether it started with "h"?


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## Outsider

The Latin etymon of _achar_ is _afflare_, according to this dictionary.

According to the RAE _hallar_ comes from _fallar_, itself from _afflare_. Hence the "h".


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## Outsider

Here are three misleading Romance coagnates I've always found funny: 

French _vouloir_ (to want) versus _voler_ (to steal) versus _voler_ (to fly)


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## tom_in_bahia

Wouldn't vontade in Portuguese be related to voulloir/volere/voler? The intervocalic "L" having been eliminated like in many other words: (_cor, dor, morcego, etc.)_


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## century

I'm glad to find people who are interested in etymology. To join the 'to want' discussion...

I've read somewhere I don't remember just now that French 'chérir'
is cognate with Spanish 'querer', an example of the French substitution of 'ch' for 'k', as also in 'carta' and 'charte', 'canal' and 'channel'. 

' Chérir' links to English 'cherish'.


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## Forero

tom_in_bahia said:


> Wouldn't vontade in Portuguese be related to voulloir/volere/voler? The intervocalic "L" having been eliminated like in many other words: (_cor, dor, morcego, etc.)_


If it means the "will", and if 'vontario" means "voluntary", I would say that's the same root.


century said:


> I'm glad to find people who are interested in etymology. To join the 'to want' discussion...
> 
> I've read somewhere I don't remember just now that French 'chérir'
> is cognate with Spanish 'querer', an example of the French substitution of 'ch' for 'k', as also in 'carta' and 'charte', 'canal' and 'channel'.
> 
> ' Chérir' links to English 'cherish'.


Spanish "querer" is a relative of French "quérir", "requérir", and "acquérir"; "chérir", from "cher", goes back to Latin "carus" (dear).  "Carus", it seems, is distantly related to English "whore", but not to "querer" < "quaerere" (seek).  Trouble is, I've heard, we don't know of any non-Latinate cognates of "quaerere", so we can't connect it to its next of kin.


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## Argónida

tvdxer said:


> Derived from _"quaero" _(RAE) - to seek
> 
> SPANISH - QUERER
> PORTUGUESE - QUERER
> 
> ==
> 
> Derived from Latin _"volo" _(inf. "velle")(source) - to will, to be willing
> CATALAN - VOLER
> FRENCH - VOULOIR
> ITALIAN - VOLERE
> ROMANIAN - VOI (?)


 
In Spanish we use the verb "querer" but the noun "voluntad". "Tener la voluntad de...", "ser voluntarioso", "dar la voluntad" are expressions related with the Latin "volo".


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## Outsider

tom_in_bahia said:


> Wouldn't vontade in Portuguese be related to voulloir/volere/voler? The intervocalic "L" having been eliminated like in many other words: (_cor, dor, morcego, etc.)_


It is at least related to _volonté/volontà/voluntad_.



> vontade
> 
> do Lat. _voluntate_


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## Aoyama

There is also a link between the French *vouloir* and the English *will* (*volonté*).
One may also note that French has two other verbs :
voler = to fly (Italian volare etc)
voler = to steal, rob
of different origin.


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## jmx

Aoyama said:


> One may also note that French has two other verbs :
> voler = to fly (Italian volare etc)
> voler = to steal, rob
> of different origin.


According to this dictionary ...
http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/voler?

... the second meaning of_ voler_ comes from a figurative use of the first meaning. So they have the same origin.


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## Aoyama

> the second meaning of_ voler_ comes from a figurative use of the first meaning. So they have the same origin


Right, I knew that, though the change of meaning is still discussed, etymologically.
The original word for stealing in French is dérober (dé-rober = take out of a robe/clothing) which has given to rob, robare etc.


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## Ephebus

Portuguese
Achar (afflare)= to find, to discover; to think, to consider, to guess, to feel or believe something to be. Acho que sim! = I think so!
Encontrar (incontrare)= to meet, to encounter, to find, to come across, to run into
Pensar/cogitar/considerar/contemplar/ponderar = to think, to consider, to contemplate, to ponder

LAT. QUAERERE RE+QUAERERE
QUERER = TO WISH, TO WANT, TO DESIRE, TO INTEND, TO MEAN, TO PLAN
REQUERER/SOLICITAR/PETICIONAR/APELAR = TO REQUEST, TO SOLICIT, TO PETITION FOR, TO APPEAL

Lat. DESIDERARE = TO WISH ON A STAR
DESEJAR = TO DESIRE, TO WISH       DESEJO =DESIRE/WISH
FAZER VOTOS = WISH, HOPE, VOW

LAT. VELLE, VOLERE   
VOLITION COMES FROM VOLO = I WILL/I WISH

VOLER/VOLIR;VOLIÇÃO/NOLIÇÃO = TO WANT;VOLITION/ TO DO NOT WANT
VONTADE/VOLUNTATE = WILL
VOLUNTÁRIO = VOLUNTEER, VOLUNTARY
VOLUNTARIOSO = WILLFUL, STUBBORN
Pt., New Lat. VELLEITAS = VELLEITY

FIND
Hallar (Sp.), Achar (Port.),*
*Trouver (Fr.), Trovare/Acchiare (It.), Trobar (Cat.) 
(Ro.) a afla

TROVA and TROVADOR/TROVISTA in Pt comes from Provençal TROBADOR, just like the French/English TROUBADOUR  
TROBAR = to compose, Vulgar Latin TROPARE, Tropus = trope, song, chant


PT
DESCOBRIR (Lat. dis coperire) DISCOVER
BUSCAR = To seek, search, to look for, to pursue
PROCURAR =To look for, to search, to seek, to strive for, to procure
PERSEGUIR/PROSSEGUIR = pursue, persecute
IR ATRÁS = to go for, to look for


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## OBrasilo

In Italian, there's the verb _incontrare_, which means _to meet_. I think it's related to the Spanish/Portuguese verb _encontrar_, which means _to find_.


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## cristian_69

In Catalan:
to want - voler
to find- trobar.


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## Sardokan1.0

*To Want*
northern Sardinian (Logudorese, Nuorese) = quèrrere
southern Sardinian (Campidanese) = bòliri

*To Find*
northern Sardinian (Logudorese, Nuorese) = agattare, acattare, acciappare (from "ad captare")
southern Sardinian (Campidanese) = agattài (Campidanese verbs in origin ended in ARI, ERI, IRI, but with centuries almost every verb has lost the R)


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## Penyafort

In Catalan, *encontrar* exists, but it means 'come across (somebody)' and is hardly ever used. The noun _encontre _is a little more used, specially in the expression _anar a l'encontre_ or _sortir a l'encontre_ 'to go to meet somebody'.

In Old Catalan, _querir / querre _could be used for 'want' but rather for 'search' or 'ask for'. It probably never rooted and does not exist in modern Catalan but as part of verbs like *requerir *'require', *conquerir *'conquer', etc.

In all these central vs peripheral terms, Catalan will align in most cases with French and Italian (think of words like 'table', 'bird', 'eat', 'cheese', 'speak', etc). Even in those words in which Catalan aligns with Spanish and Portuguese, there is a literary or obsolete term in Catalan related to the central area.


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