# достижение калькуляторной окупаемости



## William Stein

Целью СП является достижение калькуляторной окупаемости проекта в соответствии с предполагаемыми объемами продаж СП в течение 7 лет.
 
The objective of the Joint Venture is to recoup the cost of the project within 7 years according to the JV's projected sales volumes? 
 
I don't understand калькуляторной at all. If my translation is right, the objective should be to recover the costs in reality, not in theory.


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## morzh

It is some sort of misnomer....I couldn't even find this combination by Googling it.

"Окупаемость" is "profitability".
And the profitability is a binary category: it either exist, or it doesn't. 

Then again, I am no accountant, let alone a Russian accountant....

PS. Could it be "theoretical / predicted profitability"? The one calculated on paper?


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> It is some sort of misnomer....I couldn't even find this combination by Googling it.
> 
> "Окупаемость" is "profitability".
> And the profitability is a binary category: it either exist, or it doesn't.
> 
> Then again, I am no accountant, let alone a Russian accountant....
> 
> PS. Could it be "theoretical / predicted profitability"? The one calculated on paper?


 
So maybe it means "to make the project theoretically profitable within 7 years based on..."

Even then, it sounds dumb because they probably want real profits, not theoretical ones.


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## morzh

William Stein said:


> So maybe it means "to make the project theoretically profitable within 7 years based on..."
> 
> Even then, it's sounds dumb because they probably want real profits, not theoretical ones.



If it is a ploy to make the numbers look palatable to a prospective partner/buyer, it is not dumb - it is strategic 

How do you think all those startups get their venture capital?
Or, heck, I remember the Roadshow of one of my previous employers, when it was going public and wooed some financiers to underwrite its IPO. We got some major folks to do it, like the UBS. And we went under eventually. But the IPO was stellar, considering the bubble had already burst...that taught them nothing.

As the rev. Simon and Garfunkel said, "But the man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest".
This is how "calculated profitability" nakse sense. For greedy people.


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## Maroseika

morzh said:


> "Окупаемость" is "profitability".


Окупаемость is not profitability but recoupment. One of the approaches is to calculate it in comparison investments results with the result of keeping finances in the bank (i.e. this uncollected bank interest is accounted as losses). For this one needs know calculation discount rate (калькуляционная процентная ставка).
So maybe this is what's actually meant: калькуляционная окупаемость is recoupment accounting calculation interest.


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## rusita preciosa

Try to see if *break-even point* would fit better than *profitability* for окупаемость in this context. Unlike "profitability" that is a continuous indicator, BEP is a milestone. As BEP can be calculated different ways (read on cost accounting/activity-based costing if you would like more detail), I suggest translating калькуляторная окупаемость as *accounting BEP*.


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## rusita preciosa

Maroseika said:


> recoupment accounting calculation interest.


If I understand what you mean, it is simply called NPV (net present value) in English. Obtaining positive NPV would be different from reaching the break-even point I suggested, for the exact reason that BEP does not involve the rate of return (i.e. opportunity cost) and NPV does.


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## William Stein

rusita preciosa said:


> Try to see if *break-even point* would fit better than *profitability* for окупаемость in this context. Unlike "profitability" that is a continuous indicator, BEP is a milestone. As BEP can be calculated different ways (read on cost accounting/activity-based costing if you would like more detail), I suggest translating калькуляторная окупаемость as *accounting BEP*.


 
I was thinking of breakeven point, too. That's the same thing as to recoup the original costs (I saw "recoupement" in Babylon but I've never heard that in my whole life). What do you think of my original proposal:

The objective of the Joint Venture is to recoup the cost of the project within 7 years according to the JV's projected sales volumes?


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## William Stein

Maroseika said:


> Окупаемость is not profitability but recoupment. One of the approaches is to calculate it in comparison investments results with the result of keeping finances in the bank (i.e. this uncollected bank interest is accounted as losses). For this one needs know calculation discount rate (калькуляционная процентная ставка).
> So maybe this is what's actually meant: калькуляционная окупаемость is recoupment accounting calculation interest.


 
Hi Maroseika,

As you say, the discount rate is a term used in banking in order to take inflation into account, especially with bonds. This is not banking but a railway venture with no guaranteed rate of return. It's possible that they're comparing the railway investment with a "safe" banking investment, but then "recoup" wouldn't make any sense because in banking there's no initial investment in infrastructure, capital goods, etc.. Recoup usually means to recover (recoup) your initial investment costs (or to reach the breakeven point, as Preciosa Rusita suggested).


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## rusita preciosa

William Stein said:


> The objective of the Joint Venture is to recoup the cost of the project within 7 years according to the JV's projected sales volumes?


I don't know. I honestly have never encountered the word "recoupment / recoup" in business context of in financial statements. I'm not sure it is in use, at least in AE.


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## William Stein

rusita preciosa said:


> I don't know. I honestly have never encountered the word "recoupment / recoup" in business context of in financial statements.


 
This isn't really a financial statement, it's a business plan for a joint venture. "Recoupment" is kind of a barbaric creation but "recoup" is extremely common when talking about investing in a project. 
Here's one of 77,300 Google hits with the exact words "recoup the cost of the project":

Now they expect to *recoup the cost of the project* in six years


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## rusita preciosa

I'd ask in English Only.


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## morzh

As I understood it, the question is about the Russian "калькуляторная окупаемость", and the problem is to understand what it means in Russian; the correct translation will surely follow.

I am not sure how "English Only" folks could help here.

PS. "Recoup the cost" is just fine by itself; the doubt is as to whether it accurately represent the meaning of the "калькуляторная окупаемость", that is still murky.


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## estreets

I think _калькуляторной_ (which is misused indeed) just means _estimated_.


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## morzh

estreets said:


> I think _калькуляторной_ (which is misused indeed) just means _estimated_.



This has been the common guess so far. "Estimaded" = "theoretical".

I just wonder how in the world anyone comes up with "калькуляторный" in that sense.

To me "калькуляторный" is "related to calculators", not "related to calculations".
Like in "калькуляторный завод", "калькуляторные вычисления".  This way "калькуляторная окупаемость" becomes...."recoupment of calculators"???  "recoupment computed by a calculator"???? 

Some gibberish it is in Russian.


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> This has been the common guess so far. "Estimaded" = "theoretical".
> 
> I just wonder how in the world anyone comes up with "калькуляторный" in that sense.
> 
> To me "калькуляторный" is "related to calculators", not "related to calculations".
> Like in "калькуляторный завод", "калькуляторные вычисления". This way "калькуляторная окупаемость" becomes...."recoupment of calculators"??? "recoupment computed by a calculator"????
> 
> Some gibberish it is in Russian.


 
For this one, the client said to use "to achieve Payback" and "Payback Period", which does have something to do with discounting rates (as Maroseika said) and net present value (as Rusita Preciosa said), but fortunately I don't have to worry about the gory details of all that!


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## morzh

William Stein said:


> For this one, the client said to use "to achieve Payback" and "Payback Period", which does have something to do with discounting rates (as Maroseika said) and net present value (as Rusita Preciosa said), but fortunately I don't have to worry about the gory details of all that!



"Always look at the bright side of life...param-param-param-param...." 

By the time you're done with this, you will be an expert in Russian "business-ese". (Hopefully if you ever decide to invest in Russia, this will give you some..well...insight of what you are getting yourself into).
Also with amateurs lawyers writing those amateur contract in amateur legal language, those "Russian joint venture entrepreneurs-to-be" clearly need some people who can decipher all this, which will make you invaluable. You can charge all kinds of money for this. (I'll be honest - there is NO kind of money in the world I'd do this kind of job for).



Feel for ya, man. Hope the reward is worth it.


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## William Stein

morzh said:


> "
> 
> Feel for ya, man. Hope the reward is worth it.


 
You don't have to feel sorry for me, I actually enjoy my work. I can do it at home (which is anywhere in the world I want to be), listening to music without anybody breathing down my neck. It's kind of like a combination of doing cryptic crossword puzzles, playing chess and engaging in paranormal guessing games to figure out what the hell they meant. 
Not to mention that it was very nice meeting all of you, and I really appreciate your help!


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