# Essere alla frutta



## andersxman

With reference to something that someone said about something last night at the end of some tv-debate someone has commented the following:

Si tratta di barzellette di una persona che non sa cosa dice, come è accaduto in altre occasioni. Se un premier dice queste cose, significa che siamo alla frutta.

What does "siamo alla frutta" mean? 

Thank you.


----------



## Alberto77

andersxman said:
			
		

> With reference to something that someone said about something last night at the end of some tv-debate someone has commented the following:
> 
> Si tratta di barzellette di una persona che non sa cosa dice, come è accaduto in altre occasioni. Se un premier dice queste cose, significa che siamo alla frutta.
> 
> What does "siamo alla frutta" mean?
> 
> Thank you.


As in a meal where fruit comes at last, when someone "sta alla frutta", it means is in the terminal state... the lowest: so it means the worse position you can reach
ciao
alb


----------



## leogold

CIAO!MR Berlusconi today is the best example for "siamo alla frutta",it's when a person talk about things whitout sense as today!!


----------



## systema encephale

leogold said:
			
		

> CIAO!MR Berlusconi today is the best example for "siamo alla frutta",it's when a person talk about things whitout sense as today!!


This is actually a perfect example! I agree!

By the way, is there any equivalent English expression for the Italian "siamo alla frutta"?


----------



## You little ripper!

Paravia translates it as _to have reached the end_. I can't really understand the meaning of it in Italian. Maybe _to have reached the limits?_


----------



## ElaineG

systema encephale said:
			
		

> This is actually a perfect example! I agree!
> 
> By the way, is there any equivalent English expression for the Italian "siamo alla frutta"?


 
Nothing that references the end of a meal!  We would probably say, "this is the absolute limit" or something similar.


----------



## AmoL'italiano

At the fruit of our existence... the basis... the end... the ultimate? Non so... Though you say that "siamo alla frutta" is a bad thing, and "we are at the fruit of..." sounds good. I guess there's no real english translation.


----------



## systema encephale

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Paravia translates it as _to have reached the end_.


This translation fits, even though in my opinion it's not as good as the Italian metaphore.


----------



## disegno

The only expession I can think of that fits with food would be "its below the salt"...meaning that something is inferior or lacking in merit. It sort of fits...

Below the Salt - This, at its most vivid, can be found in the use of salt at the medieval food table. Here salt [an expensive and rare commodity of the time] was placed at the center of the table. Above the salt sat the family and intimates of the household, below the salt sat the servants and dependants.


----------



## carrickp

"At the end of his rope . . ." seems to be similar.

I though for a second perhaps Mr. Berlusconi had declared that he was gay.


----------



## DesertCat

What about "the last straw" ?


----------



## You little ripper!

De Mauro defines _essere alla frutta_ as: _in una situazione di grande stanchezza e stress._
_Essere esausto, stravolto_ is another definition I found while googling.


----------



## disegno

How about "to be fed up" with the situation?


----------



## leogold

Hi,it's also mean for the end of an very stressed action,as example this electoral days in italy,for our italian people.
sono alla frutta anche io!!!!
ciaooooooooooooooooooo


----------



## Silent

Could "to hit rock bottom" be a good translation of "essere/stare alla frutta"?


----------



## ToscanoNYC

Essendo un accanito melomane (opera lover), spessissimo sento dire "quel cantante è alla frutta", con cui si vuol dire che in pratica non ha (quasi) più voce ed è alla fine della sua carriera.   "Hit rock bottom" significa "toccare il fondo", ma esiste la possibiltà che uno si rialzi.  Se si dice "è alla frutta", siamo veramente alla fine.  Personalmente non ho mai usato "essere alla frutta" nell'accezione datale da De Mauro (essere esausto, stravolto).


----------



## Zenof

ToscanoNYC said:


> Essendo un accanito melomane (opera lover), spessissimo sento dire "quel cantante è alla frutta", con cui si vuol dire che in pratica non ha (quasi) più voce ed è alla fine della sua carriera. "Hit rock bottom" significa "toccare il fondo", ma esiste la possibiltà che uno si rialzi. Se si dice "è alla frutta", siamo veramente alla fine. Personalmente non ho mai usato "essere alla frutta" nell'accezione datale da De Mauro (essere esausto, stravolto).


 
Strano, perchè lo si usa molto spesso.

Oggi ho lavorato tantissimo, sono proprio alla frutta.(sono stanca morta)
Ha finito la gara camminando invece di correre, si vedeva che era alla frutta.(esausto, stravolto)
Mi spiace ma ho dato tutto quello che avevo, non ho più idee in testa, oramai sono alla frutta!


----------



## pandinorombante

Sono d'accordo, anche io la uso/sento spesso... e come negli esempi fatti da Zenof, non è vero che non ci si possa riprendere/rialzare: se è riferito a dei cantanti/sportivi, allora probabilmente non si riprenderanno/torneranno in forma (come in passato), però in tutti gli altri casi, ci si riprende ed, infatti, è un'espressione molto simile a "toccare il fondo"..


----------



## RobertdiLondra

Words fail me, I'm at the end of my tether, at the end of the road and there is no light at the end of the tunnel, sono alla frutta.


----------



## pandinorombante

RobertdiLondra said:


> Words fail me, I'm at the end of my tether, at the end of the road and there is no light at the end of the tunnel, sono alla frutta.


 
If "at the end of the road" can have also a figurative meaning, then I go for it!


----------



## Azazel81

leogold said:


> CIAO!MR Berlusconi today is the best example for "siamo alla frutta",it's when a person talk about things whitout sense as today!!


 

Except for the fact that this is your personal political opinion (I'm stil wondering how come no one erased this post since on forums no one should be writing such posts... regardless of the political side you're on) I don't know if you're helping much, with this.

(PS: sorry mods, but I couldn't help but say this)

I'd translate it into: "to be at a loss".. so... "Siamo alla frutta" = "we are at a loss".

I hope I helped


----------



## Charades

Hello there, I've read all your input and the expression "siamo alla frutta" makes me think of "we've reached the point of no return".
bye


----------



## pandinorombante

Charades said:


> Hello there, I've read all your input and the expression "siamo alla frutta" makes me think of "we've reached the point of no return".
> bye


 
I'm sorry Charades, but I think you didn't catch the exact nuance given by "siamo alla frutta", also because, concerning "we've reached the point of no return", I'd suggest we have the same expression in Italian: "abbiamo raggiunto un punto di non ritorno".

Ciao


----------



## Azazel81

pandinorombante said:


> I'm sorry Charades, but I think you didn't catch the exact nuance given by "siamo alla frutta", also because, concerning "we've reached the point of no return", I'd suggest we have the same expression in Italian: "abbiamo raggiunto un punto di non ritorno".
> 
> Ciao


 
I totally agree :-D


----------



## Murphy

Azazel81 said:


> I'd translate it into: "to be at a loss".. so... "Siamo alla frutta" = "we are at a loss".


 _To be at a loss _means not to know what to say/think/or do next in a certain situation.  

_I've tried everything to make my computer work, but it just won't boot up.  I'm at a loss as to what to do next._

Would you use "alla frutta" in a sentence like this?


----------



## pandinorombante

Murphy said:


> _To be at a loss _means not to know what to say/think/or do next in a certain situation.
> 
> _I've tried everything to make my computer work, but it just won't boot up. I'm at a loss as to what to do next._
> 
> Would you use "alla frutta" in a sentence like this?


 
I'm sorry, Azazel, but your suggestion was wrong then.. in Murphy's example it doesn't work at all: I'd suggest another fixed sentence in Italian could translate "to be at a loss": "non sapere che pesci prendere"..

but since i'm not sure, Murphy, may you be so kind to give us further examples?

Concerning "alla frutta", I'd choose "at the end of the road"..


----------



## Azazel81

Murphy said:


> _To be at a loss _means not to know what to say/think/or do next in a certain situation.
> 
> _I've tried everything to make my computer work, but it just won't boot up. I'm at a loss as to what to do next._
> 
> Would you use "alla frutta" in a sentence like this?


 
Well, honestly now that you make me notice this, I don't know.

I mean, it COULD fit in here, but not in 100% of cases. It all depends on what he/she means.

"essere alla frutta" means "to be at the point of no return", "to have no better solutions" "to have nothing more to say", it is basically a cooking metaphor: when we say "siamo alla frutta" (which means "we are eating the last dish of this meal").. it means "after this.. it's over".

So, yeah, it COULD fit.. but.. I'm not so sure.. Eheh...


----------



## ginestre

I'm not sure any of these capture 'siamo alla frutta', assuming I've understood it properly. 

I think I'd say something like '_Bring on the clowns_', which seems to me to express a similar melancholy recognition that the important stuff is in the past, that the present is actually degraded with respect to the past and that after this there is only worse to come...


----------



## Paulfromitaly

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/reach+rock+bottom

To have reached rock bottom.


----------



## ginestre

If we've _reached rock bottom_ (_note, without the article_) then things can get no worse than they are. Is that true with _siamo alla frutta_? I wonder, because I've always associated this expression with a sense that while things are incredibly bad now,  _figuriamoci dopo_... am I wrong?


----------



## Holymaloney

Hi Ginestre!
I've always thought that _*'siamo alla frutta' *_meant we can't take anymore/we can't bear a certain situation any longer . Have_ I _got it wrong ?
Cheers


----------



## Paulfromitaly

ginestre said:


> If we've _reached rock bottom_ (_note, without the article_) then things can get no worse than they are. Is that true with _siamo alla frutta_? I wonder, because I've always associated this expression with a sense that while things are incredibly bad now,  _figuriamoci dopo_... am I wrong?



When someone is "alla frutta" it means they don't know what else to do, they have no solutions to a problem, no ideas, nothing else to say as they have already "scraped the barrel", which may be another possible translation.


----------



## ginestre

Paulfromitaly said:


> When someone is "alla frutta" it means they don't know what else to do, they have no solutions to a problem, no ideas, nothing else to say as they have already "scraped the barrel", which may be another possible translation.



Thanks, Paul; I was obviously over-interpreting when I thought it also had connotations of a future worsening.

In that case, the best translation seems to me to be 'we're scraping the barrel'- because it maintains the same verb tense and also stays in the same food/drink domain.


----------



## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> When someone is "alla frutta" it means they don't know what else to do, they have no solutions to a problem, no ideas, nothing else to say as they have already "scraped the barrel", which may be another possible translation.


Would _to be at a dead end _  work?

dead end
_a situation in which further progress is impossible_


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> Would _to be at a dead end _  work?
> 
> dead end
> _a situation in which further progress is impossible_



It's not about progress though..

Let's go back to the first example:


> Si tratta di barzellette di una persona che non sa cosa dice, come è  accaduto in altre occasioni.* Se un premier dice queste cose, significa  che siamo alla frutta.*



If a prime minister has to resort to making fun of his political opponents as he is unable to rebut their statements then he is "alla frutta", that is he's hopeless, he doesn't know what else to say or do.


----------



## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> When someone is "alla frutta" it means  they don't know what else to do, they have no solutions to a problem, no  ideas, nothing else to say as they have already "scraped the barrel",  which may be another possible translation.




Thanks, Paul. Can you substitute _raschiare il fondo del barile_ in every case? Maybe the translation changes depending on context.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> Thanks, Paul. Can you substitute _raschiare il fondo del barile_ in every case? Maybe the translation changes depending on context.


I wouldn't say so..it does depends on the context.


----------



## CPA

*Se un premier dice queste cose, significa  che siamo alla frutta.

*I think what's implied here is that we as a country have hit rock bottom, not so much the premier.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

CPA said:


> *Se un premier dice queste cose, significa  che siamo alla frutta.
> 
> *I think what's implied here is that we as a country have hit rock bottom, not so much the premier.



Possibly both the country and the premier.


----------



## CPA

Paulfromitaly said:


> Possibly both the country and the premier.



Well, let's hope the country makes it!


----------



## AshleySarah

What about "to be at the end of the line"?  The "end of the line" means at the bus or train terminus, therefore one can go no farther.


----------



## Odysseus54

Secondo me " .. se un premier dice queste cose, significa che siamo alla frutta " si potrebbe anche rendere con lo stesso grado di colloquialita' con

" .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means we are toast. "

Ma anche ".. we've touched bottom", come e' stato detto prima.

Oppure ".. it means we are at the end "

Si potrebbe pero' anche leggere quel 'siamo' come riferito solamente a lui.   Esempio " Hai visto Celentano a Sanremo ?  Siamo alla frutta... " ( Dove si intende che ad essere in difficolta' e' lui, non noi, che al massimo siamo imbarazzati ) 

" .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means he is toast. "


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Odysseus54 said:


> Secondo me " .. se un premier dice queste cose, significa che siamo alla frutta " si potrebbe anche rendere con lo stesso grado di colloquialita' con
> 
> " .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means we are toast. "
> 
> Ma anche ".. we've touched bottom", come e' stato detto prima.
> 
> Oppure ".. it means we are at the end "
> 
> Si potrebbe pero' anche leggere quel 'siamo' come riferito solamente a lui.   Esempio " Hai visto Celentano a Sanremo ?  Siamo alla frutta... " ( Dove si intende che ad essere in difficolta' e' lui, non noi, che al massimo siamo imbarazzati )
> 
> " .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means he is toast. "



Esatto, entrambe le interpretazioni sono ragionevoli.


----------



## ginestre

Odysseus54 said:


> Secondo me " .. se un premier dice queste cose, significa che siamo alla frutta " si potrebbe anche rendere con lo stesso grado di colloquialita' con
> 
> " .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means we are toast. "
> 
> Oppure ".. it means we are at the end "
> 
> Si potrebbe pero' anche leggere quel 'siamo' come riferito solamente a lui.   Esempio " Hai visto Celentano a Sanremo ?  Siamo alla frutta... " ( Dove si intende che ad essere in difficolta' e' lui, non noi, che al massimo siamo imbarazzati )
> 
> " .. if a Prime Minister says things like that, it means he is toast. "



I like that a lot!


----------



## zimtladen

Based on what has been said above, perhaps "to be out of options" would most often express the sense of _essere alla frutta _(?)


----------



## theartichoke

zimtladen said:


> Based on what has been said above, perhaps "to be out of options" would most often express the sense of _essere alla frutta _(?)


It seems to me that there's a sense of blame and/or despair to _siamo alla frutta _that the more objective "to be out of options" doesn't capture. One can be out of options for reasons that are no fault of one's own, or even, quite possibly, of anyone else. 

Might we be talking about the current situation in the UK and the various things to which _essere alla frutta _would apply?


----------



## MR1492

theartichoke said:


> It seems to me that there's a sense of blame and/or despair to _siamo alla frutta _that the more objective "to be out of options" doesn't capture. One can be out of options for reasons that are no fault of one's own, or even, quite possibly, of anyone else.
> 
> Might we be talking about the current situation in the UK and the various things to which _essere alla frutta _would apply?



Does it remind you of the phrase, “… we’ve reached rock bottom?” That is, we’re as low as we can go and it can’t get any worse. There is also the response, “After that, I got (sic) nothing!” Both are like _essere alla frutta_ in that they say we’ve got nowhere lower/farther to go.

Phil


----------



## Grazia Pi.

to be on the rocks


----------



## theartichoke

MR1492 said:


> Does it remind you of the phrase, “… we’ve reached rock bottom?”


I agree with you and all the people who agree: just wanted to add that I'd usually say "to hit rock bottom" rather than "to reach rock bottom."


----------



## giovannino

Would "reach the end of the road/line/one's rope " also work?


----------



## MR1492

giovannino said:


> Would "reach the end of the road/line/one's rope " also work?



The idea is correct but in AE we are more likely to say, "I've reached the end of my rope/tether." 

Phil


----------



## london calling

MR1492 said:


> Does it remind you of the phrase, “… we’ve reached rock bottom?” That is, we’re as low as we can go and it can’t get any worse. There is also the response, “After that, I got (sic) nothing!” Both are like _essere alla frutta_ in that they say we’ve got nowhere lower/farther to go.
> 
> Phil


Yes, someone suggested that a few years back. Generally speaking, that's what it means, in my opinion. 😊

Edit. I also say 'hit'.


----------



## LetsZoom

systema encephale said:


> This is actually a perfect example! I agree!
> 
> By the way, is there any equivalent English expression for the Italian "siamo alla frutta"?


As others have said, "We've hit rock bottom" or "We're really scraping the bottom of the barrel," which is what we all said (in my family) when the orange man became president, or when we had so little money that the best car we could afford was a trashy old 1977 Ford.


----------

