# Gary -



## forumbolsa

Is there any translation to this name "Gary" in portuguese?
Thanks


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## Joca

forumbolsa said:


> Is there any translation to this name "Gary" in portuguese?
> Thanks


 
No, I don't think so. This could be a typical English name, probably not to be found elsewhere.

Funny thing, though, but I once heard that the Portuguese word "gari", which means "streetcleaner", actually comes from this name. It is said that an American or British man called Gary was the first to create somewhere in Brazil a service of streetcleaning. Somehow, from then on, streetcleaners were called after his given name.

I don't know if this is true, but it's a quite creative report, isn't it?


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## Guigo

Joca said:


> No, I don't think so. This could be a typical English name, probably not to be found elsewhere.
> 
> Funny thing, though, but I once heard that the Portuguese word "gari", which means "streetcleaner", actually comes from this name. It is said that an American or British man called Gary was the first to create somewhere in Brazil a service of streetcleaning. Somehow, from then on, streetcleaners were called after his given name.
> 
> I don't know if this is true, but it's a quite creative report, isn't it?


 
It was a Frenchman, Joca, a certain _Aleixo Gary_. 

http://comlurb.rio.rj.gov.br/salaimprensa/det_noticia.asp?cat=13&id=2040

I believe his family name is Basque but I'm not sure...


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## Benvindo

forumbolsa said:


> Is there any translation to this name "Gary" in portuguese?
> Thanks




Some sources from the internet mention that Gary comes from a Germanic root -gar, meaning either "spear bearer" or "sharp-pointed spear", possibly related to the Latin name Gervasius, Gervásio in Portuguese, Gervais or Gervaise in French. I don't know if that's true or not... It's not a name that parents would likely choose for their kids today, anyway... Sounds sort of old-fashioned, a granddaddy's name...


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## forumbolsa

You guys are awesome! Thanks for your help. Can you cite the sources you mentioned from the internet, Benvindo?


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## Benvindo

forumbolsa said:


> You guys are awesome! Thanks for your help. Can you cite the sources you mentioned from the internet, Benvindo?



Hi Forumbolsa. I repplied via personal message, to avoid posting internet links in the forum!


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## forumbolsa

Thanks for all your kind answers, several links and help! One thing that I'm wondering is how can you exactly say that one name like gary is the exact translation ie gervasio in portugues? I mean, both have the same radical in its origin GER (german) but how do you translators characterize literally that one name is the correct translation from the other from another language? What if the person only have familiy descending from England? Does it matter at all? Then the radical coming from English or Welsh is Gar but the names like geraldo doensn't mean spear carrier but other things like "brave with the spear" or "spear rule".

What I'm trying to saying is that Gervasio seems to have the same etimology as Gary but is it enough to characterize it as the correct translation? How can you experts can explain when exactly you have the right translation for a foreign name? I'm trying to standardize some definitions for name translations but it's hard!!!
Interesting isn't it?


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## Vanda

> What I'm trying to saying is that Gervasio seems to have the same etimology as Gary but is it enough to characterize it as the correct translation? How can you experts can explain when exactly you have the right translation for a foreign name? I'm trying to standardize some definitions for name translations but it's hard!!!



For example, me, a language lover, somewhat of a linguist, would never associate Gary to Gervásio. It has never crossed my mind. 
What I can tell you is that for ordinary names there are already conventional translations. Jacob- Jacó; Giuseppe- José; but there are many names that were never translated and we pronounce them our own way.
Let me exemplify with very common proper names among us: Nelson, Washington, Wesley, Wendel, Allison, and so on...


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## forumbolsa

Ok Vanda, but as well as in medicine and other sciences I may be wrong but I think there should be a rule, in translation, or any standards to translate a name to another. Why not consider the radical of it's origin?

Look what I found considering only the names which has GER as a radical:
   Nomes de Origem Inglesa - *Jarvis*
Origem Alemã - *Gerald*, *Gerard*, *Gerfried*, *Gernot*, *Gerwig*, *Gerwin*, *Luitger*, *Notker*, *Roger*
Antiga origem Inglesa - *Gary*
Origem antiga Francesa - *Gervaise*
  Já Gerald e Gerard, derivam de “spear” e “Wald”. Significam regra da lança ou algo no sentido de autoridade da lança (“spear rule”). Novamente dois radicais etmológicos diferente de Gary que só tem um.
  Gerfried tem origem em mais de um radical etmológico _. ger_ + _fridu_, ou seja, lança e paz, proteção e segurança. 

Gernot deriva de dois radicais alemães: 'ger' + 'not' ou possivelmente 'hnod' que significa esmagar.

Gerwig deriva de dois radicais alemães: “Ger” e Wig que é o lutador, guerreiro.
   Gerwin deriva de dois radicais alemães: 'ger' + 'wine' que significam lança e amigo.

Luitger, de origem alemã, também deriva de dois radicais: 'liut' and 'ger' que significam pessoas e lança. Variações desse nome com esses radicais seriam Liudger e Ludger. Em italiano esse nome significa Lazzaro.
Notker, também de origem alemã, vem de 'not' significando necessidade e 'ger'.
  O nome Roger, apesar de existir no português vem de _hruod_ + _ger_ que significa fama e lança e difere um pouco de Gary porque somente há um radical etmológico (“Ger”).
  Jarvis é derivado de Ger, com origem francesa e inglesa. Deriva de um sobrenome normândico derivado de Gervaise cuja tradução para o português também é Gervásio. Acredita-se que apareceu pela primeira vez em um romance: Charles Dicken novel A tail of Two Cities (1859). Tanto Jarvis, quanto Jervis é outra variação inglesa de Jarvis.

Os nomes Gervais e Gervaise derivam do alemão apenas do radical Ger. A origem provável é do século 2 de São gervásio que junto com São Protásio são os patronos de Milão. Tanto Gervásio, Gervaise, Jarvis, Jervis e Gary são variantes. 

I don't know if I'm doing it wrong but it seems to me somewhat logical that to search for a translation with the same etimological radical at first is ok as a way to make sure I'm adding aples with aples and bananas with bananas, not two different data. And then see if it works. 
I'm not a translator just a curious md but that's what I usually do (characterize things in common among groups) to analyse the same group. What do you think? I'm asking you that because I was reading some things and one book but I couldn't find any rules of translation about names.


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## Vanda

> I'm not a translator just a curious md but that's what I usually do to analyse the same group. What do you think? I'm asking you that because I was reading some things and one book but I couldn't find any rules of translation about names.


Yes, of course, things are not so simple as I have summarized above, and it is clear that if Gary is Gervaise in French, so it is Gervásio in Pt, but without the word in French I would never come to Gervásio by myself. 
And also it is true that there are some guides based on the word root to come to a translation and this is a fascinating subject, a huge field of research for those of us who love that.


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## forumbolsa

You know what I just realized? Most websites come from the description of the oxford dictionary of first names. But still found no rules of name translation.

Vanda, did you conclude that Gary is Gervaise in portugues because of the word root?


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## Vanda

As I said, via French.


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## Benvindo

forumbolsa said:


> ... how can you exactly say that one name like gary is the exact translation ie gervasio in portugues? ...



I think we can't!  Not yet, at least. All I can infer based on the common etymology is that the English and the Latin versions could have some degree of relatedness, but an exact translation of course is not implied... For one thing, the Latin (and Portuguese, French...) version  has a second element (the -vasius part) that seems to be lacking in the English one. But I'm not a specialist, so I can't tell for sure.



Benvindo said:


> ...*possibly related* to the Latin name Gervasius, ...


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## Heitor

I don't understand one thing about this thread: why does anyone need to translate a proper name that has never been translated before? It's not like there is anyone called Gary in English who is known by a different name in Portuguese. There are not even that many Gary's to start with!

I also think it's quite a stretch to go from Gary to Gervásio simply on the basis of morphology.

What was the name of the last American president in Portuguese? Jorge Arbusto?


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## Guigo

Heitor said:


> I don't understand one thing about this thread: why does anyone need to translate a proper name that has never been translated before? It's not like there is anyone called Gary in English who is known by a different name in Portuguese. There are not even that many Gary's to start with!
> 
> I also think it's quite a stretch to go from Gary to Gervásio simply on the basis of morphology.
> 
> What was the name of the last American president in Portuguese? Jorge Arbusto?


 
Imagine the next Pope is a Canadian and he decides to name himself Gary I... then it should be translated to _Papa Gervásio I_ it'll be better than Papa Gário I.


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## Heitor

Guigo said:


> Imagine the next Pope is a Canadian and he decides to name himself Gary I... then it should be translated to _Papa Gervásio I_ it'll be better than Papa Gário I.


 
(mudando para o português...)

É mais fácil Cristo retornar à terra que termos um papa com nome inglês. Em geral ingleses e seus descendentes têm uma antipatia enorme pelo catolicismo e pelo papa, aparentemente por motivos históricos. 

Bom, tem os franco-canadenses...


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## Heitor

Voltando ao assunto do Gary, achei um link interessante: http://www.thinkbabynames.com/meaning/1/Gerald

De acordo com o site, Gary é uma variação de Gerald, portanto a "tradução" seria Geraldo. Nada de Gervásio.


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## forumbolsa

Hahah indeed that's a very specific post . I'm sure the right answer to identify if Gary has or not a translation won't change the axis of the earth but the thing is not about the name Gary. The thing is try to understand your (translators) algorithm of how do you translate NAMES fo a foreing language.

Heitor, you're right. Most English are protestants where I found myself included too. Nevertheless, most sites show variation of names BUT most of them are variations of the oxford dictionary. I have no idea why they said they characterize as "variation" of the name Gary as Gerald. It seems a little bit by chance.
Jorge arbusto e George Bush are easy to translate hehehe. Other names like Gary that are tough.

Gerald, morphologically speaking, comes from “spear” e “Wald”. Significam algo no sentido de autoridade da lança (“spear rule”). Why did you conclude that the translation of gary is gerald, besides what is said at that website which supposely is true?

This is hard. Since I couldn't find any standard definitions, first I thought that the names could be translated only by word root origin. ie Gary comes from only one radical: Ger (german) or Gar (french, welsh and old English). All other names that I searched had 2 or more radicals. I was happy when I found gervasio but the thing Benvindo said is right because Gervasio actually has 2 radicals: one Ger and the other part is unknown but "vasio" I could find in one babybook to be translated as servant. Then my theory that Gary could be Gervasio doesn't fit either because Gary has only one and all the rest of the names have two or more.

Gerald has ger + wald, two radicals. I wish I could be sure of the right translation. But the definitions of how can a name be properly translated to a foreign language seems to be lacking. How would you elaborate on that?

I found a girl in another forum saying a friend of hers called Gary has its name translated to IGOR in Russia. Would it be by chance too?


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## Heitor

forumbolsa said:


> I'm sure the right answer to identify if Gary has or not a translation won't change the axis of the earth but the thing is not about the name Gary. The thing is try to understand your (translators) algorithm of how do you translate NAMES fo a foreign language.



(vou tomar a liberdade de responder em português)

Acho que a resposta é simples e fica clara com uma observação rápida: o algorítimo para traduzir nomes próprios é, como quase tudo que se refere à linguagem, arbitrário, ilógico e sem muito sentido.

Para mim o que mais se sobressai é que, assim como qualquer outra palavra, nomes próprios só podem ser traduzidos dentro de um contexto. Por exemplo, aqui no Canadá existe uma cidade chamada London, mas seria um absurdo dizer que o nome dela em português é Londres. "Londres" não é a forma portuguesa da palavra "London", é o nome em português de uma cidade na Inglaterra. E a cidade canadense não tem um nome em português.

Pelo que sei, nomes de pessoas são a mesma coisa; por um ou outro motivo, personagens históricos ou mitológicos recebem nomes em português, mas isso não quer dizer que o nome em português é a "tradução" do nome original, simplesmente porque não se pode fazer tradução sem contexto. Assim, chamamos Charlemagne de Carlos Magno, mas nos referimos a Charles Aznavour pelo nome francês. Dizer que "Charles" significa "Carlos" em português não faz o menos sentido, pelo menos para mim.

Quanto a Gary, como não há figura histórica com esse nome, simplesmente não há equivalente em português. Mas é claro que isso não impede ninguém de praticar exercícios de masturbação mental


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