# appropriate attire for leaving the house



## tvdxer

American visitors to Europe often comment on how women (or even men) will not leave the house even to do the most simple, routine errands without  putting in a fair amount of time or effort to dress nicely and look good.

On the contrary, in the U.S. it is not uncommon for girls at universities (mine, at least, but it seems to be the case in others as well) to attend lectures wearing sweatpants, an old T-shirt, and sneakers, and fill their desk space with snacks.  And I've driven to the convenience store (I live out in the country) to buy milk or bread wearing a sloppy undershirt and pajamas.

Does your culture demand that individuals display "bella figura" whenever they go out into public?  Or does it tend to be more lax, expecting them to dress their best only for more formal situations?


----------



## RIU

Hola:

Hay de todo: desde el que se adecenta para salir de casa, hasta el que va "informal pero arreglado" es decir -y no exagero- con chandal y tacones o chandal y mocasines para ellos.


----------



## chics

...but it's true that our level "de adecentamiento" is higher than the explained _*tvdxer*_. I've never seen someone wearing pijamas out of home.

At my university, there were some boys and really very few girls who weared sweatpants. We weren't against it, but it shocked a bit the other students... I remember an article on the students newspaper talking about it. In most of universities in my city nobody wears this sort of pantalons. There are full of styles of dressing, t-shirts, shirts, more posh, more trendy, more or less informal... but it's not usual to attend lectures in a jogging suit.


----------



## float

tvdxer said:


> American visitors to Europe often comment on how women (or even men) will not leave the house even to do the most simple, routine errands without putting in a fair amount of time or effort to dress nicely and look good.


Sounds like something that only happens in a stereotypical version of Italy/France if you ask me.

There are over 40 countries in Europe, some with vastly different cultures, so I don't think you can really generalise about what "Europeans" do.

In the UK, tracky bottoms (sweatpants) with a t-shirt and trainers (sneakers) is the standard form of dress for literally millions of people!

Maybe an upper-middle class lady of leisure from some posh part of London wouldn't dare to leave the house without being fully made-up and immaculately turned out, but the average person... 

Having said that, I think that wearing pyjamas outside your home would be seen as a step too far by most people.


----------



## veritàNONesiste

Even here in Austria, wearing pyjamas outside the house is somehow strange (I do it when I put the rubbish out or fetch the news) ...
At university there are some peoply in 'sportly' clothes, very seldom in sweat pants; it's rather as described above: most try to go out fully styled ...


----------



## JanWillem

The discription in the first post suits the Netherlands fine; although I officially claim not to care how I or other people look, I must admit that I have become somewhat infected by this virus too, haha. I'm also hearing similar stories (the other way around) from Europeans who visited New York or other places in North-America.
I wouldn't go outside in my pyjamas here in the city, but back on the farm I would of course, the cows wouldn't mind!


----------



## goode_spelr

I don't mean for this discussion to take a turn, but my fiancee will not leave the house without making herself look very presentable. 

She is half Mexican and, growing up in an affluent Chicago suburb, was very aware of the old US stereotype of "dirty" Mexicans. She refuses to give anyone an opportunity to reinforce this stereotype. Also, her children will not go anywhere without being at least as well-dressed as other children. 

On the other hand, I, a white midwesterner, often will throw on a baseball cap and think nothing of running a quick errand.


----------



## Kajjo

tvdxer said:


> On the contrary, in the U.S. it is not uncommon for girls to attend lectures wearing sweatpants, [...] and I've driven to the convenience store to buy milk or bread wearing a sloppy undershirt and pajamas.


Such dress would be absolutely unacceptable in Germany. Pyjamas are only suitable for bedtime and nothing else. We would regard such outfit as really strange, to phrase it mildly. On the other hand, I do not think that the usal citizen spends much time dressing himself for simple errants -- we just wear relatively proper clothes all the time, and many people wear jeans, T-shirts and sweater: No problem with that. Most people not even wear sweatpants, pyjamas, undershirts and such in-house during the day -- only for sports or in bed.

Kajjo


----------



## maxiogee

People can and do leave the house in anything, here in Ireland.
I worked for a while as the manager of a video rental shop. We saw some rare fashions


----------



## Bonjules

One of the great liberating experiences for an European moving to the US is being able to go to the bank in your undershirt.


----------



## danielfranco

Well, even in the same country there are different approaches to this. When I lived in Mexico, Mexico City was a bit more relaxed than other places about what you wore. Regardless, I remember distinctly being told a million times to "dress up because we are going to the grocery store". And I remember the women of the house taking a moment or two (fine: at least half an hour) to "refresh" their make-up before going to the corner to buy a kilogram of freshly cooked tortillas.
But other places (I remember San Luis Potosí, in particular) were a bit too much, to my point of view. People seemed to be dressed up to the nines, like, in their Sunday best, in order to run errands.

Here in the States, it pretty much depends on the individual. I've seen people go to Walmart in their pajamas, or still wearing hair-rollers (yep, even guys!), but also I've seen people dressed up in suits and gowns buying McDonald's food. There's just too many people doing too many things at once for there to be a "general" thing to do. 300 million people. That's a lot of people, I think...

In the specific example of the university setting, I think it also depends on the university itself. Probably the guys at MIT have some different ideas about what should be worn to class than, say, the local Community College.


----------



## Etcetera

In Russia, it really depends. 
In the town in Moscow region where I've been spending pretty much time in recent years, people normally don't bother about their looks when they're going to a corner shop. Well, quite frankly, I wouldn't do make-up only to go and buy milk (I hope I look good enough to allow myself not to use make-up each time), but I also wouldn't go out in the same T-shirt I wear at home. Not for all the tea in China! 
In big cities, where people usually make their shopping in supermarkets, not small shops, they're more conscious about their dress. In general, I have the impression that the Petersburgers think more about their looks than the Muscovites. 
As for universities, I can't speak for all the universities in Russia, but in the one I study - Moscow University - it depends remarkably on the faculty. On the Faculty of Jurisprudence, for example, girls wear pretty ex[ensive clothes, and almost all boys wear suits. On our Faculty of Philology we dress pretty differently. Most girls (including myself) normally wear T-shirts or blouses and jeans or trousers. But old clothes are frowned upon.


----------



## Poetic Device

I think that it isn't just what country but also what sort of habitiat (for lack of a better word) you are in.  For example, when I lived in Greenpoint (Brooklyn, NY) No one went out in their pajamas or anything like that.  We had people that wore the wife beaters and pants, but that was the worst and the men that wore that were usually working.  

In New Jersey, however, it does not really seem to matter what you are dressed like...  And that is what scares me the most.


----------



## swift_precision

I cannot speak for the other universities in the nation, but in the one I attended, yes, it was normal to see certain people go to class in their pajamas and some flip flops or sandals as if they had just literally gotten out of bed without even taking a shower (which appeared to be the case). However, I usually observed this trend _later _in the semester when let's say for example, the first-year students had already been acclimated to the university environment and during final exams when nobody cared WHAT they looked like to others---as long as they made it to their exam on time that's all that mattered jaja.


----------



## fenixpollo

Kajjo said:


> -- we just wear relatively proper clothes all the time, and many people wear jeans, T-shirts and sweater: No problem with that. Most people not even wear sweatpants, pyjamas, undershirts and such in-house during the day -- only for sports or in bed.


 And, most people also wear shoes in the house!

*Come in -- barefoot, please!!*


----------



## PABLO DE SOTO

En España la gente se preocupa cada vez menos por salir de casa bien vestido.
Depende un poco de la zona del país y de la clase social,pero la tendencia es a ir cada vez más informal.
Cuando yo era joven,nadie se atrevía a ir por la ciudad en camiseta,bañador y chanclas (flip-flops or thongs),pero ahora es muy común en verano.
La moda ha tomado nota de ello y se han inventado las "chanclas de paseo".
La gente joven tiende a ir más informal ,pero esto también se está contagiando a los mayores.
Yo trabajo en una oficina pública y hace años no entraba nadie en chandal(tracksuit),pero ahora ocurre.


----------



## .   1

chics said:


> I've never seen someone wearing pijamas out of home.


I have but it was accessorised with a sideways baseball cap with a propeller on top and a huge attack dog wearing a cubic zirconia collar.  I have learned to keep my distance from blokes wearing PJs in public.

.,,


----------



## ElaineG

> I think that it isn't just what country but also what sort of habitiat (for lack of a better word) you are in. For example, when I lived in Greenpoint (Brooklyn, NY) No one went out in their pajamas or anything like that.


 
The only time I have seen someone outside of their house in pajamas in NYC was the morning of September 11th, just before they shut the subways down, when there was an older man in tears on my subway car whose daughter worked on the 90th floor at the World Trade Center and who was going to try to find her. When I saw him in his pajamas, and slippers, it really hit home to me what we were facing. 

Nor have I ever seen anyone outdoors in curlers, here. I didn't know that people still had curlers actually. 

That's not normal dress around here. NYers tend to be very conscious of what they have on, if in a far more casual way than other places I've lived like Italy. It's casual _but it's highly thought out casual. _Sometimes visitors think that the informality means it just doesn't matter, but how you are treated in a restaurant or bar or boutique (for better or worse) will often depend on how you are dressed. The cues are subtle, but perhaps no less rigid than in more overtly formal places.


----------



## ayaram7700

Hello,

In this suburban town where I have been living for over two years, I have seen some fashions ...and created some, too. I wear PJ's under a long overcoat, with the corresponding slippers to go to the pharmacy or convenience store, if I forgot to buy my  medication  or milk. It's not uncommon, only make sure that you  wear slippers that MATCH. Or else...

I have heard that in a Central American country known as La Republica, women wear curlers at all times during the day, at the store, in the car, probably their hair looks great at night  That I really find kind of something I would never do. 

Saludos,

Ayaram7700


----------



## lablady

I must show this entertaining thread to my youngest daughter (now 22). We have always teased her about spending hours on her hair and make-up, then going to the beauty parlor (to have her hair and make-up done). "But Mom," she says, "Someone might *see* me before I get there!"

This particular fashion diva has been known to carefully choose the perfect outfit, then finish it off with Elmo slippers.* Yes, she wore Elmo slippers to go shopping. And no, she was not a child at that time; this was just last year. And no, she won't be upset with me for talking about her on the forum.

In other words, in our town, people will wear almost anything in public. You would be surprised what passes for "fashion" around here. On an average day I see people dressed as if they are going to a fancy club, or dressed as if they are ready for bed, and everything in between.

* For those unfamiliar with Elmo: the picture is of Elmo, a popular children's character, wearing Elmo slippers.


----------



## Athaulf

tvdxer said:


> Does your culture demand that individuals display "bella figura" whenever they go out into public?  Or does it tend to be more lax, expecting them to dress their best only for more formal situations?



Here in Toronto, the fashion standards that I encounter daily are abysmal in comparison with just about any place in Europe. And the fact that I work at an engineering university department doesn't help either. A few years ago, I participated in a conference at our department as a student. We were told to dress in standard business attire, because some important industry people were supposed to be there, and most of us indeed showed up wearing suits and ties. However, nobody informed the faculty members to do so... and many of them showed up dressed in shorts, lousy T-shirts, sneakers, sandals, etc. 

I'm especially annoyed with this custom of disgusting dressing among us engineers. I'm sure that because of this we lose a lot of respect in the eyes of the general public compared to other professions whose members either use the business attire (like lawyers) or have some distinct professional uniforms (like doctors).


----------



## ElaineG

> Here in Toronto, the fashion standards that I encounter daily are abysmal in comparison with just about any place in Europe.


 
Is that true for Germany too? I've always been curious. I've never been, except to the airports, but where I lived in Italy we got a lot of German tourists, and I was always impressed by (especially the women's) to hell with fashion attidude utilitarian/comfortable clothes. I became very girly, heels/skirts, makeup, hairdresser like all my Italian friends while living there, being a chameleon-like conformist at heart, but I admired the way most of the German women I met (not all obviously) put comfort first (i.e., comfy shoes not heels - more appropriate after all for steep cobblestone streets - but not much seen in my town). Is that just a vacation thing?


----------



## chics

Oooh... I'm loosing lots of things!!!

I've never seen people with sleappers, neither curlers out of home. In fact, when I visit someone at his home, he'd never put his shoes off, if I'm there!

I once went out home wearing sleepers, but it was a mistake! When I realised I felt very ashamed and went back home to change them by shoes, knowing that I'd arrive late at school because of it.


----------



## CrazyArcher

I can wear my home clothes only if I go as far as the garbage bin... Otherwise I can't imagine myself wearing proper jeans, t-shirt and shoes. Sneakers are okay, but obviously not slippers. My take on people wearing pj's at street is that if they wear the same thing at home and at the street, they have the same attitude and I won't expect from them to mean business. For me it's a sign of bad culture/education.
In the university I attend, it's possible to see people wearing old clothes and sneakers and okay, but sweatpants and beach-slippers are a non-sense. People come to study, not to work out or sunbathe. Besides, it's disrespectful towards the professors.
Jeans and a shirt are the most comfy clothing for me, and I don't get how people call it restrictive or anything like that.


----------



## Chaska Ñawi

As far as pyjamas go, here it's a generational and gender thing.  Girls and women under thirty (to make a gross generalisation) are quite comfortable wearing their pyjamas to class or to run errands.  Those of us who are older appear publicly in our pyjamas only if our workplace is hosting a pyjama day.

The teenaged girls around here wear their pyjamas as street clothes, and their jeans around the house.


----------



## maxiogee

Chaska Ñawi said:


> Those of us who are older appear publicly in our pyjamas only if our workplace is hosting a pyjama day.


 
Hosting a WHAT?????

Why would one wish to go to one's workplace in one's pyjamas? 
Why would one's employers wish to invite one to come to work so dressed?

Some pyjamas are very definitely not for public consumption! I have pyjames I wouldn't wear if I were in hospital, let alone out of doors.


----------



## Kajjo

Chaska Ñawi said:


> The teenaged girls around here wear their pyjamas as street clothes, and their jeans around the house.


Maybe we lack a common definition of pyjama. I absolutely fail to imagine a teenage girl wearing a pyjama publicly. Beyond imagination.

Kajjo


----------



## maxiogee

Pyjamas normally (in the UK & Ireland) refers to a jacket and trouser combination in a cotton fabric - not what one would call 'revealing' and generally much more modest than a nightgown/nightie or anything made with a translucent/transparent lightweight nylon material.


----------



## fenixpollo

Kajjo said:


> Maybe we lack a common definition of pyjama. I absolutely fail to imagine a teenage girl wearing a pyjama publicly. Beyond imagination.


 Google images of "pajama day". The result is students and teachers of all ages and genders wearing pajamas (with three "a"s because the photos I saw were all from the US  ) as part of a special day designed to create excitement about an event and to build team spirit.  Businesses might have them, too, but it's pretty rare in the US -- it would have to be a very special business.


----------



## federicoft

tvdxer said:


> Does your culture demand that individuals display "bella figura" whenever they go out into public?  Or does it tend to be more lax, expecting them to dress their best only for more formal situations?



Absolutely. Here in Italy for most people is inconceivable to go out into public or to receive a guest at home without having properly dressed up. Often Italians make fun on how is it possible to distinguish a fellow-countryman from a German/American/British/other nationality tourist from the way he dresses. And going out in pajama would be a good argument for being considered a public menace.


----------



## Kankj

I cannot speak for other people, but I've noticed that dressing up (or in general, wearing something nice) makes me feeling nicer, self confident and in general more confortable with myself. I don't think this is because I am insecure; but somehow i feel that the way you are dress tells to other people (and to yourself) something about your personality


----------



## Chaska Ñawi

Kajjo said:


> Maybe we lack a common definition of pyjama. I absolutely fail to imagine a teenage girl wearing a pyjama publicly. Beyond imagination.
> 
> Kajjo



As per Tony's definition of pyjamas - cotton (flannel in winter) baggy pants and jacket.  However, here the girls just wear the pants - never _ever _the entire outfit - in public.


----------



## Kajjo

fenixpollo said:


> Google images of "pajama day". The result is students and teachers of all ages and genders wearing pajamas.


I rarely feel that I miss a word. I am looking for one meaning utterly unbelievable and really, really strange. We Europeans usually figure the Americans to be really prudish, but then there they go in pyjamas in the public. Several of my teachers probably had preferred to retire immediately before showing up in pyjamas in school. Beyond imagination. I also cannot imagine teenage girls showing in up pyjamas -- don't they feel exposed, vulnerable in sleeping clothes?

Kajjo


----------



## jonquiliser

Well, to stay on-topic, clothing over here is quite casual, I'd say, although I am sure some people would get into their heads to talk about it in more pejorative terms . Tracky bottoms is standard dress code for quite a few people. The number of cheap-trend clothes shop chains has spurred the interest in fashion, though. But you can go around in the clothes of your choice without raising too many eyebrows or even attracting attention. This does not apply if you get into your head to go out in pyjamas in winter, however. Strange, innit


----------



## Poetic Device

Kajjo said:


> I rarely feel that I miss a word. I am looking for one meaning utterly unbelievable and really, really strange. We Europeans usually figure the Americans to be really prudish, but then there they go in pyjamas in the public. Several of my teachers probably had preferred to retire immediately before showing up in pyjamas in school. Beyond imagination. I also cannot imagine teenage girls showing in up pyjamas -- don't they feel exposed, vulnerable in sleeping clothes?
> 
> Kajjo


 
Quite the contrary.  They feel they are being cute.  I saw a few girls go so far as to wear the feety pyjamas.


----------



## Kajjo

Poetic Device said:


> Quite the contrary.  They feel they are being cute.  I saw a few girls go so far as to wear the feety pyjamas.


Strange world. Maybe they should dress as teddy bears. They're cute, too. Again, beyond any imagination for me.

Kajjo


----------



## badgrammar

ayaram7700 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have heard that in a Central American country known as La Republica, women wear curlers at all times during the day, at the store, in the car, probably their hair looks great at night  That I really find kind of something I would never do.
> 
> Saludos,
> 
> Ayaram7700



Gosh, you don't have to go that far to see that!  I've seen it in the states in Texas, and in Maryland.  There is also a rather eccentric woman at my kids' school just outside of Paris who is usually dressed to the 9's in sort of 50's Lucille Ball fashion.  It is not unusual to see her come get the kids in curlers tucked away under a scarf. 

Around here, you see just about everything, from sweatpants to leggings and everything in between.  Paris may have this great reputation for fashion, but I don't really notice it so much myself.  You see Parisians looking quite dowdy all the time in the streets, in transportation, at stores.  I think the "Parisian women are always well put-together" idea is one huge myth.  That kind of Parisienne does exist, but it's not the norm.  

I try to make a small effort when I go out, no sweatpants, etc.  But I find putting a nice coat and decent shoes over whatever I'm wearing all makes for a good camoulage effort, and with a little mascara and translucent powder, people don't ask if I'm feeling ill .  Really, I wouldn't leave the house without atleast checking myself out to be sure I don't look like I spent the morning in my bathrobe in fornt of my computer...


----------



## djchak

It's true...in malls around the Chicago area you see girls in "pajama pants".

They are considered hip. We are talking really nice malls here too.

The U.S. is a strange, beautiful place......but mostly strange. 

I love taking visitors from out of the country to these malls, and watching them freak out.


----------



## .   1

I see 'pyjamas' being worn in public put these are obviously fashion statements and generally leave less to the imagination than common street clothing.
.,,


----------



## JamesM

My teenage boys think that "dressing up" is putting on a sweater over a t-shirt and jeans. We just saw "Wicked" (a musical production) in Hollywood last night and they were in sneakers, jeans, and sweaters. That was "dressing up".  That said, girls here are more careful in their dress, in my observation. They might wear what look like casual clothes, but there will not be a spot, a stain, or a sign of wear anywhere; they are spotless and perfectly neat, as if they just came off the rack.

This corresponds to the NY comments, I think. "Casual" is fine; "sloppy" is another thing entirely.


----------



## JamesM

As for me, personally, I tend to always be a little "overdressed", I guess, when I go out. I'm not really comfortable in T-shirts or jeans, and I don't think I look very good in them, so I usually wear a shirt that has some sort of collar on it and either casual or formal slacks of some kind or other, even if I'm dashing out to the grocery store for something. Some people look very "put together" in casual clothes; me, I think I look sloppy and uncared for, so I don't do it. 

It was a surprise to me twelve years ago when my family joined a new church where many people wore shorts and sneakers to church. I had always been more dressed up than that when going to church. I've relaxed a bit. I haven't worn a tie to church in years, except on very solemn occasions.  You won't get me in shorts, though. 

[edit]I'm sitting in a coffee house at the moment, and just looking around, I see three women in sweatshirts and jeans, one in sweatshirt and "exercise pants", one in a formal blouse with sequins on it and fancy slacks, one woman in a white blouse and cashmere sweater and a skirt, three men in sweaters and slacks with dress shoes, and one college student in a t-shirt and jeans. The dressing standard to go out is pretty wide open around here, I'd say, but no one looks sloppy or unkempt. They all look like deliberate choices.


----------



## alexacohen

chics said:


> ...but it's true that our level "de adecentamiento" is higher than the explained _*tvdxer*_. I've never seen someone wearing pijamas out of home.


Omigod!!!! I do!
(But I live in a very very small community with only eight houses. If I run out of milk, I cross the path to my neighbour's and just ask her for some, wearing my pyjamas. Otherwise I would have to cycle five kilometres to the village to get some milk - and with no breakfast! Same can be said of my neighbour, of course) 
Alexa


----------



## JamesM

alexacohen said:


> Omigod!!!! I do!
> (But I live in a very very small community with only eight houses. If I run out of milk, I cross the path to my neighbour's and just ask her for it wearing my pijamas. Otherwise I would have to cycle five kilometres to the village to get some - and with no breakfast! Same can be said of my neighbour, of course)
> Alexa


 
Just curious, Alexa... if you were to cycle to the village, how would you dress to go there?


----------



## ElaineG

> I had always been more dressed up than that when going to church. I've relaxed a bit. I haven't worn a tie to church in years, except on very solemn occasions.


 
The realm of places in American life that actually require a tie (or a dress) seems to have almost disappeared over the last few decades.

I've noticed that the churchgoers in my neighborhood aren't that dressed up anymore. When I was growing up, I clearer remember Sunday outfits on my Christian friends.

When I was growing up, people used to dress up for Broadway, in the jacket/tie or dress sense, now you can go in jeans. Slacks and a sweater are fine even for the Metropolitan Opera which used to be black-tie and evening gown (still is on premiere nights).

All of New York's finer restaurants used to be jacket and tie required. (They would give you a gross loaner jacket if you forgot yours). Only a tiny handful (all French) still are.

When I started working, every law firm and financial institution in NYC was suits every day, all day, for women and men alike. Now most (not quite all) have some form of business casual.

Now, this will _really date me_, but I remember as a small girl (1970s) there was still the lingering idea that you should be dressed nicely to go on an airplane! Seems absurd but there you are. Now an overnight flight is the closest I come to wearing my pajamas in public - baggy comfortable old clothes. [As an aside, British Airways 1st Class gives out "sleeper suits", which despite the relative privacy of their sleeper seats and modesty of the sleeper suit, I would never actually feel comfortable wearing. That said, there are always one or two people who go to the bathroom and change into the sleeper suit ].

I'm not sure what these changes mean.


----------



## Athaulf

ElaineG said:


> _
> 
> [Response to a comment about fashion standards in Canada being abysmal in comparison with just about any place in Europe. -- A.]_
> 
> Is that true for Germany too? I've always been curious. I've never been, except to the airports, but where I lived in Italy we got a lot of German tourists, and I was always impressed by (especially the women's) to hell with fashion attidude utilitarian/comfortable clothes. I became very girly, heels/skirts, makeup, hairdresser like all my Italian friends while living there, being a chameleon-like conformist at heart, but I admired the way most of the German women I met (not all obviously) put comfort first (i.e., comfy shoes not heels - more appropriate after all for steep cobblestone streets - but not much seen in my town). Is that just a vacation thing?



I'd say, partly. There are of course large differences in fashion standards between different parts of Europe, and Germans generally have some of the lowest European standards, which is obvious if you compare them with Italians, who are generally on the other extreme. But still, in my experience, Germans are on average nowhere as tasteless fashion-wise as the people around here in Anglo-Canada. Also, Germans do tend to be more relaxed on vacations than at home. Tacky German tourist outfits are a running joke throughout the Mediterranean, but I've never seen (or even heard of) Germans wearing pajamas in public or sweatpants and slippers in offices, which is what many people here will do unless they are restrained by some formal dress code. 

As for the fashion vs. comfort issue, there's still plenty of room for displaying both good and bad taste even if we limit ourselves to entirely comfortable and casual wear.


----------



## TrentinaNE

ElaineG said:


> Now, this will _really date me_, but I remember as a small girl (1970s) there was still the lingering idea that you should be dressed nicely to go on an airplane!


I'm older than you, and I clearly remember having a nice yet comfortable "travel dress" for my flight to and from Italy in 1967. Airfare was also outrageously expensive back then, so maybe we dressed up out of respect for how much we'd paid. 

I seem to recall jeans becoming accepted church-wear (I was raised Catholic) about the same time as "guitar masses", roughly the early 1970s.


----------



## cuchuflete

Thread topic reminder:





> Does your culture demand that individuals display "bella figura" whenever they go out into public? Or does it tend to be more lax, expecting them to dress their best only for more formal situations?


----------



## HUMBERT0

danielfranco said:


> Well, even in the same country there are different approaches to this. When I lived in Mexico, Mexico City was a bit more relaxed than other places about what you wore. Regardless, I remember distinctly being told a million times to "dress up because we are going to the grocery store". And I remember the women of the house taking a moment or two (fine: at least half an hour) to "refresh" their make-up before going to the corner to buy a kilogram of freshly cooked tortillas.
> But other places (I remember San Luis Potosí, in particular) were a bit too much, to my point of view. People seemed to be dressed up to the nines, like, in their Sunday best, in order to run errands.


I Agree, I know that in other cities to the south people dress up to go out, here people don’t make such a fuss if you go out in a T-shirt and jeans,  heck people come  to the office in shorts and snickers were I work… truth be told the Americans working here started that trend… 
 
I remember when I started working in a company, the very first day I wore a necktie, every looked at me like I came from Mars, finally my boss told me “take off the necktie, people are going to thing your from Mexico City…”, and I was so relieved the temperature was about 95º F in that inferno they call a city “Mexicali”.
 
I was taught to dress up when ever I go out of the house (my family is originally from a more southern part of the country), at the very least I’ll put a pair of jeans and a T-shirt if I’m going to be in my neighborhood, and if I go downtown (25 min. drive), the mall, movies, etc. I dress more formal. However, if I go across the border to the US (5 min. drive) , I’ll wear anything from short’s, sweatpants, T-shirt, snickers, jeans, baseball cap, etc., even though I wouldn’t be caught wearing that in my city… mhhhh…. Wonder why????


----------



## Kankj

Well, just to make one thing clearer: 
What do we mean when using the expression "casual dress"?

EG: now I'm wearng jeans, t-shirt and a sweater. But my jeans have a red symbol, so i've put on a red belt; and i have matching t-shirt and sweater.

Does that mean that I'm dressed casual? Casual but not random? Not casual?


----------



## alexacohen

JamesM:
I would cycle with shorts and a t-shirt on summer days. And tracksuit and parka in winter.
Now, seriously. When I read this thread yesterday, I began to think. All my female friends and workmates dress in jeans and t-shirts/pullovers or tracksuits when not working. Sure we girls have nice clothes, but just for formal dinners, weddings, etc. Everywhere else, we all wear comfortable clothes. Even pyjamas... I had never thought why, till now. 
We work for a big airline. Our clothes are custom made by a very expensive designer. We are requested to wear it with matching hairbands, earrings, wristwatches. The skirt and jacket are so tight that we can't run or bend, but we do look very nice and poised. Our designer shoes are stilettos. We wear this clothing from eight to twelve hours a day, seven days in a row.
No wonder when we take off this torturing outfit we all resort to tracksuits.

Alexa


----------



## fenixpollo

kankj said:
			
		

> What do we mean when using the expression "casual dress"?


 I suggest you open a new thread about "casual dress", because it will take several hundred posts to debate that term... and you won't ever get an answer to your question because not only does it vary by culture, it varies by situation within a culture, and varies by person within a situation.

Here are two threads that might help you towards an answer: *skirts in the workplace* and *too much flesh*?


----------



## alexacohen

> As per Tony's definition of pyjamas - cotton (flannel in winter) baggy pants and jacket.


Oh, hold on... did you mean _flannel _pyjamas? I missed that one! I didn't know they still existed... The I-go-out-with-my-pyjama-on that I practise when no milk at home (and the rest of the girls who do wear pyjamas outside the house) has nothing to do with flannel... The pants look very much like the ones ballerinas use for practicing... and the tops usually display Minnie Mouse, Hello Kitty, Snoopy (the Snoopy one is my own  ) and the like.
Alexa


----------



## Lavinia.dNP

badgrammar said:


> Gosh, you don't have to go that far to see that! I've seen it in the states in Texas, and in Maryland. There is also a rather eccentric woman at my kids' school just outside of Paris who is usually dressed to the 9's in sort of 50's Lucille Ball fashion. It is not unusual to see her come get the kids in curlers tucked away under a scarf.
> 
> Around here, you see just about everything, from sweatpants to leggings and everything in between. Paris may have this great reputation for fashion, but I don't really notice it so much myself. You see Parisians looking quite dowdy all the time in the streets, in transportation, at stores. I think the "Parisian women are always well put-together" idea is one huge myth. That kind of Parisienne does exist, but it's not the norm.
> 
> I try to make a small effort when I go out, no sweatpants, etc. But I find putting a nice coat and decent shoes over whatever I'm wearing all makes for a good camoulage effort, and with a little mascara and translucent powder, people don't ask if I'm feeling ill . Really, I wouldn't leave the house without atleast checking myself out to be sure I don't look like I spent the morning in my bathrobe in fornt of my computer...


 
You are right : Parisian girls look really dowdy. I would say that they dress in a very sad way, with all those greys and light blues.
Most of them don't wear any makeup and don't style their hair. It is quite common to see them wearing those kinds of ugly hair grips you use to tie your hair when having a shower.

Fundamentally they are convinced that it looks "chic" to wear neutral colors like black, grey, light blue etc... 

French girls consider Italians like the most elegant people in Europe, and compared to them, we are.
Italian girls wear jeans, t-shirts and sneakers too but the difference is that the jeans will be the trendiest one, the t-shirt will be a nice and sexy one, the hair will always be styled and most of them will wear a minimum makeup.

No one in France or in Italy would go out in pajamas or sweatpants, unless you are more than 70.

Although, a few years ago, there was a sort of "trendy slipper" here in Paris which was made of a sort of tulle, but more rigid, on which a flowery pattern was embroidered. Many young girls were wearing that in the streets and I found that so unstylish!

If you want to have an idea of the trendiest french elegance, go to a Zara or a Mango shop and chose the dullest clothes you find, avoiding all the bright colors : that's what a really trendy "Parisienne" will wear.


----------



## alexacohen

How funny...


Etcetera said:


> In Russia, it really depends.
> On the Faculty of Jurisprudence, for example, girls wear pretty ex[ensive clothes, and almost all boys wear suits. On our Faculty of Philology we dress more casually


The College of Law at my University was kown as "The Posh" because everyone attended lessons inmaculately dressed up, usually boys wore dark suits (and yes, a tie) and some of the girls looked as if they had come right out of a fashion magazine. The College of Foreign Languages was known as "The Hippy". 
(Santiago de Compostela University, Spain).
Alexa


----------



## Poetic Device

At the college that I live by the dress is pretty casual.  What cracks me up though are the people that are born and raised here in New Jersey (country settings) and they are dressing and acting like they are straight out of NYC.  There's a lot of that going on here.  It's funny, but rather sad.


----------



## chics

Lavinia.dNP said:


> You are right : Parisian girls look really dowdy. I would say that they dress in a very sad way.
> 
> Fundamentally they are convinced that it looks "chic" to wear neutral colors like black, grey, light blue etc...
> 
> No one in France or in Italy would go out in pajamas or sweatpants, unless you are more than 70.
> If you want to have an idea of the trendiest french elegance, go to a Zara or a Mango shop and chose the dullest clothes you find, avoiding all the bright colors : that's what a really trendy "Parisienne" will wear.


 
Hello all!

First of all, I'd like to give my condolences to Alexa. It's true. It also happen to dresses in some big shops (El Corte Inglés, Harrod's, etc.) but woman not dress in that way anymore, to be formal. Par example in a job where men dress suits. Most of air companies (not all!) keep the way of dressing of housewives of the '40 to have a _good and modern_ image.

And, Lavinia, it's true that most women in Paris dress in black and are convinced that the most chic is wearing only neutral colors and minimalist things, perhaps one only thing pale rose or bleu... but they feel as chic as you, when wearing beautiful colors. They often wear jeans, too.

In the south, Italy, Spain, Greece... we better like to change colors each day. We find boring, dull and sad being completely dress in black. Instead of it, we like to match our bright colors and being more extremate. However, a great part of Parisienes dont like it and wouldn't wear it. They ask us. "But how many colours are you on today?" "Only two, white and red, and some little details in black" "Three!!! Red! And your T-Shirt has drawings in that colours!" And, to others: "You know, she is Italian (Spanish, etc.)".

They're different ways of feeling comfortable and well-dresed at the same time, having different opinions of what is beautiful/chic.

Zara and Mango are Spanish companies, they sell not expensive clothing for young woman. They have a large choice of colours in Spain, but not in Paris. The same happens with Benetton (united _colors _of), in Paris all they have is grey or black!


----------



## SunDraw

Aagh! A lady came into the supermarket wearing a sort of light gym sweatsuit, pale blue, looking nearly (american) pyjamas!!
This astonishing event happened in a big city near Venezia, Italy, on may 18, 2007, around 10AM.
Luckily, the lady had to ask me, passing by, an information, so I could ascertain:
"Mmh, signora, You are _not_ Italian, are You?"
"No, I'm Belgian"
So, now everything is clear!!
___
_(Please forgive & correct my English, thank you)_


----------



## Silvia B

I am almost shocked about what I read about the American way of dressing to go out!

I confirm, here in Italy you simply can't go out if you are not well dressed...that means so much time for the boyfriends to wait!! 

We need to wear properly, make up, have at least decent hair (which can still be unconvenient as people always want to be perfect out there....shhh!)

I remember that at school we were asked not to wear indecent clothes when it was hot, and guys could not wear short pants (I mean those under the knee, anyway!!!)

Actually, we can recognize a foreigner at 200 mt distance...
And I have to admit that sometimes many Italians laugh too....(at northern Europeans the most...Spanish or Greek are not that different)

People (unfortunately) do care about the way you dress. And comment everything. 

On the other hand I have to say that we love dresses, I've got millions of clothes...hehe...and I change everyday to go to work...and in the evening I change again...
We always think of where we are going and how we should be dressed...
soooo stressful!


----------



## TrentinaNE

Silvia B said:


> I am almost shocked about what I read about the American way of dressing to go out!
> 
> I confirm, here in Italy you simply can't go out if you are not well dressed...that means so much time for the boyfriends to wait!!


I have a difficult time reconciling this statement with what I saw some of my cousins wear at a _festa_ we had for my parents' _nozze d'oro_ in Italy two years ago: t-shirts, denim, gym shoes, etc. Are there big regional variations in the propensity to "dress up" in Italy? 

Elisabetta


----------



## Etcetera

Silvia B said:


> People (unfortunately) do care about the way you dress. And comment everything.


Unfortunately? Let me disagree with you here.
It's really disgusting to see a person who doesn't care about their looks at all. Of course I don't think that all people should wear formal suits when going to a corner shop, but going out in dirty jeans and torn T-shirt and home slips is simply a bad tone. And it's really very unpleasant (to say the least of it) when someone in dirty clothes sits next to you in a bus. 
But commenting on other people's dress is pretty nasty indeed.


----------



## jonquiliser

Etcetera said:


> Unfortunately? Let me disagree with you here.
> It's really disgusting to see a person who doesn't care about their looks at all. Of course I don't think that all people should wear formal suits when going to a corner shop, but going out in dirty jeans and torn T-shirt and home slips is simply a bad tone. And it's really very unpleasant (to say the least of it) when someone in dirty clothes sits next to you in a bus.
> But commenting on other people's dress is pretty nasty indeed.



I don't think it's worse than perfumes or aftershaves that barely allows you to breathe... And I really dislike these sort of dress codes and expectations. 

I'd say Finns are, generally speaking, pretty laidback in this matter. You can go out in sweatpants and similar things and no one will think twice about it, most likely the mightn't even notice. Obviously, depending on the circumstances, going like that to a funeral is less common. But everyday business you do in the clothes you feel comfortable in. And differently people feel comfortable in different ways - some in "formal" clothing, others in "informal" clothing (I don't really like these ideas of formal and informal either, but..). Ok, this may sound a little idealising - it's not all this good. People are judgemental, and people do classify and judge people according to their clothing. But let's say, the dress codes here are maybe wider, and less strict.


----------



## Musical Chairs

In high school, we used to have "spirit days" when we would wear our school colors. This meant most people would wear sweats or beefy tees with their school sport on it. I always considered "school spirit" pointless but I guess sweats are more justified in this context (because it's something the whole school plans). I do wear pants that are sort of like sweats except they aren't as thick and they are tight (sort of like leggings but not exactly), but I haven't worn sweatpants since "spirit days" in high school. I often wear sweatshirts (with jeans probably) when I don't feel like wearing anything spectacular, which is extremely normal. I think people like looking "sporty," and that's part of why people wear soffees and baggy shirts so much.

I don't see this at my university much, but in high school people used to plan special days with their friends (or they'd just decide to by themselves) when they'd wear pajamas to school. I think this is inappropriate and disrespectful. I don't think even think it's "cute." The most public place I would wear pajamas to is outside to take the garbage out.

Personally, I think it's weird when people dress up ALL the time (actually, many people look down on this at my college), but it also looks bad when you always wear sweats. I think there should be a balance. Most days, I wear jeans and a shirt but sometimes I wear black/white pants or skirts and a nice shirt. I think this is the case with many girls my age.

People NEVER wear pajamas in public in Japan. I don't think they wear sweats much either, but this may be becoming more popular in the cities.


----------



## Silvia B

TrentinaNE said:


> I have a difficult time reconciling this statement with what I saw some of my cousins wear at a _festa_ we had for my parents' _nozze d'oro_ in Italy two years ago: t-shirts, denim, gym shoes, etc. Are there big regional variations in the propensity to "dress up" in Italy?
> 
> Elisabetta



Never seen something like that, I swear..
Where was it? And was it a party at home? 
(pretty weird anyway, my sister dresses up just to come eating with the family on Sundays..)


----------



## Silvia B

Etcetera said:


> Unfortunately? Let me disagree with you here.
> It's really disgusting to see a person who doesn't care about their looks at all. Of course I don't think that all people should wear formal suits when going to a corner shop, but going out in dirty jeans and torn T-shirt and home slips is simply a bad tone. And it's really very unpleasant (to say the least of it) when someone in dirty clothes sits next to you in a bus.
> But commenting on other people's dress is pretty nasty indeed.



No, I think you misunderstood.
People care about the way the "others" dress!
That means that you are controlled every time you go out...!
Or they will laugh at you...


----------



## beloli

Hallo everybody
In Italy, no one would even dream of going out wearing his/her pijama... People look at you and judge the way you look. I remember when I lived in London, it felt great not to bother all the time about what I was wearing... On the contrary, the dress-code at work was quite strict: you can't go to your office wearing your jeans, whereas it is perfectly accectable here. I think the difference lies in looking fashionable and trendy...


----------



## Silvia B

beloli said:


> Hallo everybody
> In Italy, no one would even dream of going out wearing his/her pijama... People look at you and judge the way you look. I remember when I lived in London, it felt great not to bother all the time about what I was wearing... On the contrary, the dress-code at work was quite strict: you can't go to your office wearing your jeans, whereas it is perfectly accectable here. I think the difference lies in looking fashionable and trendy...



That's it. We just love to look trendy. Everywhere.
Italians (absolutely not me!) would be able to spend 300 euro on a pair of jeans. And wear it even on a ceremony.


----------



## ireney

For an extensive discussion of the Italian "bella figura" you can check this thread too.


----------



## NextNoName

> Having said that, I think that wearing pyjamas outside your home would be seen as a step too far by most people.


Nah... convenient store is special that way. Pyjamas is acceptable there especially at night. Of course supermarket is different but I think I recall I saw someone wearing pyjamas in a supermarket, it was night but still it was weird. I don't stay in the U.S.A. or Europe but it is the same everywhere.


----------



## Poetic Device

How do you know that if you don't stay everywhere?


----------



## NextNoName

Poetic Device said:


> How do you know that if you don't stay everywhere?


 I don't stay in the U.S. or Europe but I did stay in the U.S. I got my degrees there.  And I had friends from different countries while I was there so my conclusion is that people are the same everywhere.


----------



## Musical Chairs

Not true in Japan, and it seems like not in Italy and Germany either.


----------



## chics

You can also apply to Spain all the comments made by Silvia and beloli about Italy.


----------



## heidita

Etcetera said:


> But commenting on other people's dress is pretty nasty indeed.


 


jonquiliser said:


> And I really dislike these sort of dress codes and expectations.


 
As long as it is only commenting.....

I was rather shocked at the "dress code" applied by "southwest airlines". The woman was asked to leave the plane because of "inappropriate clothing". She apparently thought her attire was perfect for leaving the house. I mean, seeing the woman...she was wearing a simple enough mini-skirt. 

I had never seen anything alike. You _buy_ a ticket and you have to stick to a dress code?


----------



## alexacohen

Yes, you have. 
If a woman dresses like a hooker she won't be allowed to travel first class in several airlines. Same for a bare-breasted man.

Of course not all airlines have the same dress codes; some have none. But many of them won't let a passenger fly if s/he wears dirty clothes, that have very obviously not seen water and soap for weeks.
No matter how much they paid for their ticket, people in dirty clothing are not allowed in a plane.

Anyone forced to sit for eight hours side by side with a person who stinks will understand why they aren't.


----------



## CrazyArcher

alexacohen said:


> Anyone forced to sit for eight hours side by side with a person who stinks will understand why they aren't.


 Have you?
I think that having some kind of dress code at the airline is perfectly valid from the business side. Not only Mr. Brown paid for his ticket, but also people flying the same plane paid for their tickets, and they deserve a flight without Mr. Brown stinking and exposing his crack. (In case anyone here has second name 'Brown' - nothing personal here!)


----------



## heidita

I do not think we can compare a mini skirt with weeks without washing. Stinking and hygiene is not the topic of this thread. 

The woman in question was thrown off the plane for wearing a mini skirt (not too mini at all). Her picture is on the link supplied. I consider her attire perfectly fit to go anywhere.


----------



## Etcetera

jonquiliser said:


> I'd say Finns are, generally speaking, pretty laidback in this matter. You can go out in sweatpants and similar things and no one will think twice about it, most likely the mightn't even notice. Obviously, depending on the circumstances, going like that to a funeral is less common. But everyday business you do in the clothes you feel comfortable in.


I had the opportunity to notice that.

I study Finnish as my second foreign language at University, and we have native teachers of Finnish. One of them taught us Finnish in our 3rd year, the other has started her classes this term. Both of them dress very casually, their favourite clothes seem to be jeans (and rather bouffant ones!), loose shirts and boots. And they carry large rucksacks. Now, that's something quite unthinkable of for a Russian university teachers - they normally dress very carefully. Even if they don't have money to buy expensive clothes, they still make efforts to look decently. No jeans, for God's sake. A younger teacher may wear jeans, but it will be some really fashionable jeans.


----------



## chics

heidita said:


> The woman in question was thrown off the plane for wearing a mini skirt (not too mini at all). Her picture is on the link supplied. I consider her attire perfectly fit to go anywhere.


But not really anywhere in the world, in every place we have a different sense of decorum, so she might be well (and enough) dressed in Spain but not in Dallas. In other countries women have not problems in showing their brest, but it would be not so natural on a Spanish plane, neither in a pyjamas, for example. However, even in Spain, she may have problems to enter to casinos, certains _cool_ restaurants or churches in that way.
There are differences, that's why we're here talking about these things. 

Personally, I try to inform myself about dressing codes when I travel abroad, specially everything related to decorum (I don't mind fashion).


----------



## alexacohen

heidita said:


> I do not think we can compare a mini skirt with weeks without washing. Stinking and hygiene is not the topic of this thread.
> 
> The woman in question was thrown off the plane for wearing a mini skirt (not too mini at all). Her picture is on the link supplied. I consider her attire perfectly fit to go anywhere.


 
I said airline dress codes differ from airline to airline.

I explained the most common dress code, that most airlines follow, and this dress code is that passengers with dirty clothes will not be allowed on board. 
I also said that several airlines are very choosy with the people they allow to fly first class.
Airlines are private business same as restaurants and night clubs. The may refuse their services to whoever they deem is not appropiately attired.

The women were perfectly attired according to you; that does not mean everybody else have to agree with you. Evidently, the airline owners don't.


----------



## Etcetera

alexacohen said:


> I explained the most common dress code, that most airlines follow, and this dress code is that passengers with dirty clothes will not be allowed on board.


This dress code isn't peculiar to airlines. For example, the rules of St Petersburg and Moscow metro state that passengers in dirty clothes are not allowed to use the metro. 

But it doesn't prevent beggars and homeless people to slip in the metro. That's really disgusting. 

And I think that it's absolutely right not to allow people in dirty clothes to use public transport or enter shops, for example.


----------



## jonquiliser

alexacohen said:


> Airlines are private business same as restaurants and night clubs. The may refuse their services to whoever they deem is not appropiately attired.



That is a bit tricky, though. This reasoning is what allows discrimination: if private business can select which people they choose to serve (let into planes, clubs, shopping centres, shops or whatever) based on clothes, they same can be done with other physical attributes - hair colour, skin colour, facial features, religious symbols etc. This is what an airline did when refusing a man to enter because of his large beard and "moslem" look. He was Spanish. (And anyway, so what? Shouldn't moslems be allowed in?)


----------



## alexacohen

Jonquil, I was merely stating a fact.


----------



## jonquiliser

Yes, sorry, Alexa. It's just that very often it is stated as a fact that "this is private business", implicitly taken as a motivation: if it's private business, nobody else can criticise it. It's not to say you mean this, it's just that frequently such reasoning is presented as a 'fact'. 

And you are right that in the actuality, that's how things work. In my opinion unfortunately.


----------



## Cristina Allende

Well, I play basketball and everyone on the basketball team (and also people on other sporting teams) would not look out of place wearing sweatpants/pj bottoms outside the house (sometimes even to school, if they are nicer sweatpants).  It would be kind of strange to see some fat person wearing pj bottoms , but the more athletic people are more prone to wear like school sweatpants and stuff like that.


----------



## Cristina Allende

heidita said:


> The woman in question was thrown off the plane for wearing a mini skirt (not too mini at all).


 
Not too mini at all?  What picture are you looking at?  That skirt is so short that I bet whenever she stands up you can see her butt!  Dressing like that is completely unacceptable.  

I know a lot of people at my school who think they can get away with wearing stuff like that, but honestly, I can't even understand why they would want to make themselves look like hookers in the first place.  All that happens is an old man like the principal or the chemistry teacher tells them that their clothing is "distracting."  I dunno.  Maybe some girls like being looked at by 50 year-old men.


----------



## cuchuflete

Once upon a time, there was a thread topic--
Does your culture demand that individuals display "bella figura" whenever they go out into public? Or does it tend to be more lax, expecting them to dress their best only for more formal situations?                                                                                                                                                         
​At first, people gave information that responded to that question.  Then, being human,
they began to tell us what was outrageous, what people ought to wear, and why the
rules and rulesetters were good or bad.  The cultural insights provided such displays of personal opinion were...

I wonder what those people were wearing while they wrote about what is tolerable and what is not.

_Bella figura_ in coastal Maine, not including tourists, is clean, casual clothing.  Everyday
attire is clean, casual clothing.  Formal dress of any kind is an oddity other than for
religious events, real estate closings and court appearances. Tourists bring habits from all over with them, all puns intended. Mainers do get a smile from some of these, especially when the bella figura includes a figura bella.  Beauty is in the eyes of the beholder.


----------



## Cristina Allende

cuchuflete said:


> I wonder what those people were wearing while they wrote about what is tolerable and what is not.


 
I'm wearing black basketball shorts and a bright green T-shirt!  I would definitely wear this going out of the house; actually, I do it quite often.  Bball shorts and a T-shirt is very normal for people around these parts.


----------



## Etcetera

cuchuflete said:


> I wonder what those people were wearing while they wrote about what is tolerable and what is not.


As I'm writing from a public place (my University's computer class), I'm wearing a jumper and a pair of black jeans.
When at home, alone/with my parents and not expecting guests, I can wear some old T-shirt and trousers, but I won't even think of going outside my flat in that.


----------



## almostfreebird

<Mainers do get a smile from some of these,>

That reminded me of two days ago, I was watching Yankees vs RedSox game on TV(in the morning in Japan), and between innings there was a close shot of Stephen King(Mainer), he was wearing a cotton shirt and maybe wornout jeans with a toothpick in the corner of his mouth and looked completely assimilated in the stadium. I thought that was nice. It seems a lot of people in the stadium haven’t changed in the way of attire since 1900 and I like that.
There was also a close shot of Brad Pitt(Oklahoman) whose attire was also like 1930s plain fashon, though he was conspicuous.


----------



## panjandrum

> Joe McGuinness of St Matthew's Primary School has written a letter to parents asking them not to wear pyjamas while they drop their children off at school.
> _Source_


It's not the only school where this happens.
I see them every morning on my way to work - Mums in pyjamas and slippers, having a morning smoke as they walk their kids to school. When I say slippers, yes, I mean the fluffy kind.
As it's cold in the morning, they wear a cardigan or jacket of some kind on top.

As it happens, I don't see the other set of Mums in pyjamas and slippers - those who drive their little darlings to school in Chelsea Tractors.  They don't normally get down from their cars, but I am reliably informed that if ever they must they, too, show that they are doing the school run in pyjamas.

Is this appropriate?
I wouldn't have said so, but it is definitely happening.


----------



## alexacohen

> Originally Posted by *cuchuflete*
> I wonder what those people were wearing while they wrote about what is tolerable and what is not.


As I was having coffee break after a business meeting, when I wrote about airline dress codes I was wearing a brown suit, a cream blouse, black tights and court shoes.
My brain and my skills would be the same if I wore gardening dungarees or a nightie.
People should not be judged by their clothes, true. But wearing dungarees, or a nightie, in a business meeting would only show an utter lack of respect for others and for myself, at least in Spain.

Conventions vary too much. But there are clothes that are considered appropiate here, rightly or wrongly, and others that are not. 
And so:
I will not not wear a mini skirt in a Synagogue or shoes in a Mosque. I will not wear a red silk sexy dress in a funeral. Or appear in mourning in a christening. Or wear stilettos and an evening dress in the beach.
To quote Pete Seeger:
"To everything 
There is a season 
And a time for every purpose, under heaven"


----------



## nichec

I was young enough when I "moved" to Paris to be blown away by all the fashionable Parisians. They wear makeup, but not heavily, it's there, visible, yet not shockingly noticeable, they always manage to add some nice touch to their otherwise boring ensemble, a silky scarf, a pretty hairdo, trendy shades...............etc. And they always seem so quiet, calm, and confident, it's like they know you are stunned, and they are used to it. Back then, I never dared to step out of my flat without having my hair and my makeup done, and putting on really nice outfits, it's very possible that I was just scared in a foreign land, but I always got the feeling that whenever I walked into a shop, a boutique, or a restaurant, the clerks checked out my outfits very fast, and very discreetly, people love to pay you compliments on these things a lot there (in Rome too) "Oh, your foundation fits you very well" "Oh, your skirt is so cute" "Oh, did you just get a lovely tan?" (the most absurd ones "Where did you get your lips done?" "Which brand/color of makeup are you using?" they are asked by total strangers, that's why they are absurd, and no, I don't have any plastic surgery, thank you very much )

Then I was back to VA, the difference is huge, you can sense it the moment you get off the plane in DC, people simply don't pay so much attention to these things, which is very nice, in my own opinion. Back in UVA, guys wore shirts, T-shirts and jeans, girls can be dressy, but there are also girls in very casual outfits, what makes me feel good is that they all look very comfortable in what they wear (this reminds me of hitting the pavements in Rome with high heels.....all the Italian girls beside me seemed to be okay with it, they can even run if you ask them to, I guess, but my feet were sore and in serious pain  after about an hour, and I decided to get a pair of sneakers right away) Sometimes you see girls way too dressy with very heavy makeup, but that's quite rare.

The same for girls in Taipei, I think, though the concept of "makeup' and 'fragrance" are not that popular there.

I miss the "perfect lady" who share morning bus/metro with me in Paris, they have perfect makeup, elegant outfits, neat hairdo, and they smell great, they make you wonder "when exactly did you wake up this morning?", and on a bad hair day, they give you a very good reason to be ashamed of yourself..................

But if I am honest, I am so much happier with the situation now, I try to be a "perfect lady" (always fail, of course) when I go to work, but you can also spot me with my slippers and PJs (with some coat on top) on my way to get some take-out food (in my defence, I am only planning to be out for 10 minutes), I don't spend time on these things to please others but myself, and I certainly don't do that because I feel the pressure, and that's what's so good about it.

As for what I am wearing now, I am not working now, so I am wearing @#$%^&*


----------



## heidita

nichec said:


> But if I am honest, I am so much happier with the situation now, I try to be a "perfect lady" (always fail, of course) when I go to work, but you can also spot me with my slippers and PJs (with some coat on top) on my way to get some take-out food (in my defence, I am only planning to be out for 10 minutes), I don't spend time on these things to please others but myself, and I certainly don't do that because I feel the pressure, and that's what's so good about it.
> 
> As for what I am wearing now, I am not working now, so I am wearing @#$%^&*


 
So am I , Nichec. jejejeje

Very funny post and I couldn't agree more. I wonder why so much importance is given to go "appropriately " dressed to buy the newspapers or the bread. Even crossing the street to bring the kids to school. So what if they do so as they feel comfortable? In Pyjamas...so be it. It would probably make me smile, but not put my nose up.

Surprising the comment by *etcetera* that people with dirty clothes should not be let into shops. So beggars, should not be allowed to buy anything? In their case it is not even a question of property, but possibility.

I smiled at your post, *Panja*, but I felt: very _entrañable_,( endearing). I wish, more people did that here, tell you the truth. Even though they might in small villages. You cannot see anything like this in Madrid, probably the same in other big cities.

I am definitely a _Maruja _at heart and soul.


----------



## chics

Here in Spain, if someone drop his children at school wearing pyjamas and slippers, it's sure he'll be asked if he's ill and if everything's all right at home. It's almost sure as well -maybe depending on the answers, maybe in spite of them- a social assistant will be called.

You don't need to be dress in stilettos, or other uncomfortable shoes, don't need always elegant robes, sophisticate hairing and make up; BUT we expect you wear dayly clothes in public places, so in the street.


----------



## hello_miss

Very interesting topic indeed  !

It’s about *the degree of fashion*, I guess. 
People from big city are intending to be more care about their dresses, their images…
Here in Sydney since we have most time of summer, girls are looking pretty, fresh and summery. Guys wear casual, and we love to wear slippers all the time! You just can’t go anywhere without a pair of really nice sunglasses!


----------



## fenixpollo

It's not about degree of fashion as much as it is about *anonymity* and *caring what people think*. When nichec says "I'm only going out for 10 minutes", she's saying "in those 10 minutes, I won't see anyone whose opinion I value".  When she lived in Paris, she valued all opinions because she wanted to fit in to the culture. Correct me if I'm wrong, Nic.

It's also about the *energy and effort* of always looking perfect _versus_ the *convenience and time* of being able to go out without looking perfect.


----------



## stanley

Kajjo said:


> Such dress would be absolutely unacceptable in Germany. Pyjamas are only suitable for bedtime and nothing else. We would regard such outfit as really strange, to phrase it mildly. On the other hand, I do not think that the usal citizen spends much time dressing himself for simple errants -- we just wear relatively proper clothes all the time, and many people wear jeans, T-shirts and sweater: No problem with that. Most people not even wear sweatpants, pyjamas, undershirts and such in-house during the day -- only for sports or in bed.
> 
> Kajjo


Nobody here would ever wear pyjamas to go outside and do some shopping etc. But it's quite common to wear sports wear like sweatpants or something like that if you don't want to spend too much time dressing up. There are a lot more people in the US who're wearing sweatpants during the day but nobody in Germany will frown upon you just for wearing sportswear. Yet, it would be a little bit strange if you went to parties or to the movies in sports wear, which isn't seen as slobby in the US though. It's pretty normal in the US to wear sweatpants for any occasion. It's kind of said but I don't mind people doing that, because I used to do that, too.


----------



## lablady

Changing the subject, but only a little - 

Forgive me if this has been brought up already but this is a very long thread and I have a very short memory. 

What if you are required to wear a uniform at work and you want to do some shopping on your way home? 

I used to go home to change clothes before I went out to run errands. Unfortunately, once I was home, I would frequently decide that I didn't feel like making the effort to go back out again. Then I noticed firemen, medical staff, fast food employees, etc., going shopping, going to the movies, or even eating out while wearing their normal working uniform. No one appeared to think it unusual. I now have no qualms about running errands, while still wearing my uniform, on my way home from work. Because there are many uniform-wearing shoppers, we don't stand out at all. 

Is this true of other places?


----------



## hello_miss

fenixpollo said:


> It's not about degree of fashion as much as it is about *anonymity* and *caring what people think*. When nichec says "I'm only going out for 10 minutes", she's saying "in those 10 minutes, I won't see anyone whose opinion I value". When she lived in Paris, she valued all opinions because she wanted to fit in to the culture. Correct me if I'm wrong, Nic.
> 
> It's also about the *energy and effort* of always looking perfect _versus_ the *convenience and time* of being able to go out without looking perfect.


 

Yes, you are absolutely right. 

At some points, people would dress up for pleasing someone or for someone who they really care/love. People also have to dress up in order to fit in that social/diplomatic occasion, as you said. And I agree with that it is self-respect as well as respect to others to wear appropriate attire for leaving the house. While here we are discussing whether public in general need to dress up before they go out even just to the nearest grocery store. Also there is a distinction between dress up properly and dress up perfectly. 

Most of times I don’t think it would be a problem for people to wear appropriate attire for leaving the house. But at the level of fashion, it might difficult for the public to get dress up in a very fashionable way and especially hard to keep their best looking at all the time. Because of it involves higher aesthetic standards, financial availability and so on. People who are from big cities such as NY, LA, Milan, Paris… are more likely to have better tastes of fashion or at least they are more interested in dressing up. Cause they live in fashion capitals. 

It is everyone’s job to keep neatly dressed. But it’s not everyone’s responsibility to keep as fashion as they can. One saying: there is no ugly girl, there is only lazy girl. Since there are so many beauty professionals out there such as fashion designers, hair dressers, professional makeup men… Go for some helps!


----------



## Sepia

jonquiliser said:


> That is a bit tricky, though. This reasoning is what allows discrimination: if private business can select which people they choose to serve (let into planes, clubs, shopping centres, shops or whatever) based on clothes, they same can be done with other physical attributes - hair colour, skin colour, facial features, religious symbols etc. This is what an airline did when refusing a man to enter because of his large beard and "moslem" look. He was Spanish. (And anyway, so what? Shouldn't moslems be allowed in?)




No that is not true. I can refuse to serve someone or to let him into a night club because he does not fit into the dress-code.

If I refuse him acces or to serve him because of his ethnic, racial components, his religion or sexual orientation I am in violation of the law anywhere in the EU.

So if I am a doorman and a racist I'd better be creative in figuring out reasons for not letting people of a certain ethnic group in because letting the real reason be to obvious would get me into trouble. 

As a matter of fact, I have worked in night club security and am not a racist. A boss I used to have told me not to let people of a certain ethnic monority in - an order which I always ignored. I never got any trouble from my boss because of that probably because he knew that would get him into trouble.


----------



## Etcetera

fenixpollo said:


> It's also about the *energy and effort* of always looking perfect _versus_ the *convenience and time* of being able to go out without looking perfect.


One more thing: when you know that you look perfect, it immediately adds to your self-esteem. I think a lot of women (and some men, too ) would agree with me here. 

And all those tips on how to prepare for a job interview inevitably include the advice to dress very carefully.


----------



## heidita

Sepia said:


> No that is not true. I can refuse to serve someone or to let him into a night club because he does not fit into the dress-code.
> .


 
This actually happens here all the time. You are not let into clubs wearing sneakers, for example, but many people interpret it as " I was not let in because I am a foreigner" which is not true.
Same happens in some high class restaurants in new York. You have to wear a jacket.



Etcetera said:


> One more thing: when you know that you look perfect, it immediately adds to your self-esteem. I think a lot of women (and some men, too ) would agree with me here.


Personally I don't think so. It doesn't matter to all those women what people think who , like Panja says, bring their kids to school in pyjamas. I am sure of the opposite: these people have so much self esteem, they simply do not mind what people think or say.



> And all those tips on how to prepare for a job interview inevitably include the advice to dress very carefully.


 
I agree on this one. Everything needs to be done to avoid confrontation or offense. If you go to a funeral, wear black in Europe or white in India. 
If you go for an interview, dress carefully. 
It is supposed to be rude to wear something white on weddings (except for the bride).
Don't even try to wear shoes in a Mosque....
even though all these things might seem perfectly fit for you.


----------



## Etcetera

heidita said:


> Personally I don't think so. It doesn't matter to all those women what people think who , like Panja says, bring their kids to school in pyjamas. I am sure of the opposite: these people have so much self esteem, they simply do not mind what people think or say.


 I would regard wearing pyjamas on the street or something like that not as a sign of the person's high self-esteem, but as lack of respect towards other people. I may be wrong, but it's my opinion.


----------



## jonquiliser

Etcetera said:


> I would regard wearing pyjamas on the street or something like that not as a sign of the person's high self-esteem, but as lack of respect towards other people. I may be wrong, but it's my opinion.



And I would regard someone who demands of others to dress according to fashion/trends/majority preferences as lacking in respect . I'd agree on some points: I think there's a difference between having different perceptions of what is preferable in terms of practicality or aesthetics (and not bothering about fashion fascism), and not caring for others. Going to a wedding in your pyjama I'd probably count into the second category (unless the people getting married are much in your same line of pyjama fancy, for example). Wearing your pyjama, or your wathever fancied clothing in many other circumstances really isn't anybody's business, now is it? I mean, public space is no less mine only because I don't fancy fashion, now is it?

To make it cultural, I shamelessly claim to speak on behalf of the Finnish people .

And I second Heidita's words .


----------



## jonquiliser

Sepia said:


> No that is not true. I can refuse to serve someone or to let him into a night club because he does not fit into the dress-code.
> 
> If I refuse him acces or to serve him because of his ethnic, racial components, his religion or sexual orientation I am in violation of the law anywhere in the EU.
> 
> So if I am a doorman and a racist I'd better be creative in figuring out reasons for not letting people of a certain ethnic group in because letting the real reason be to obvious would get me into trouble.
> 
> As a matter of fact, I have worked in night club security and am not a racist. A boss I used to have told me not to let people of a certain ethnic monority in - an order which I always ignored. I never got any trouble from my boss because of that probably because he knew that would get him into trouble.



Yes well, what I meant was this: those who _are _racist have no difficulty with creativity. You can't deny anyone to enter providing their ethnicity as a reason. What you _can_ do is refer to anything of their attributes, saying the don't comply with "dress code" or other codes of conduct. These days, you can also say they are potential threats, fitting the  "terrorist (stereo)type". (As was the case of the Spanish lawyer trying to get on the plane.)


----------



## heidita

jonquiliser said:


> And I would regard someone who demands of others to dress according to fashion/trends/majority preferences as lacking in respect . I'd agree on some points: I think there's a difference between having different perceptions of what is preferable in terms of practicality or aesthetics (and not bothering about fashion fascism), and not caring for others. Going to a wedding in your pyjama I'd probably count into the second category (unless the people getting married are much in your same line of pyjama fancy, for example). Wearing your pyjama, or your whatever fancied clothing in many other circumstances really isn't anybody's business, now is it? I mean, public space is no less mine only because I don't fancy fashion, now is it?
> 
> To make it cultural, I shamelessly claim to speak on behalf of the Finnish people .
> 
> And I second Heidita's words .


 
I was wondering , too, *Etcetera*, why you should think it is a _lack of respect _as long as these people mind their own business. If I simply don't mind or care what others think..why should they be offended by what I am doing? They can look the other way if they don't like my looks. *Jonqui* I agree with you on the respectless bit. if you are at a wedding or celebration of any kind, do what is customary.
I remember a personal anecdote which I hope will be permitted: a woman wearing shorts in Mexico. She was like 70 and had a skin disease and it looked rather ...may I say revolting? But then, why _shouldn't_ she wear shorts? Because her skin didn't look nice? Because she was too old? Why not? She didn't bother anybody, didn't offend anybody...In the end I thought her attitude admirable. With this skin wear shorts certainly needed a lot of self esteem and self consciousness.


----------



## alexacohen

Etcetera said:


> I would regard wearing pyjamas on the street or something like that not as a sign of the person's high self-esteem, but as lack of respect towards other people. I may be wrong, but it's my opinion.


 
I agree with you.
It has nothing to do with not caring for fashion. But those people taking their children to school in the morning wearing their pajamas and slippers!.

People don't change their bedclothing every day. People make love, get wet, are feverish, sweat in their beds. 
Those people get up in the morning and don't have a shower.
If they did, they would not be wearing their pajamas: they would change into some other clothes (be a tracksuit or jeans or whatever, fashionable or not). Nobody has a shower and put on their dirty clothes afterwards.
So those people are talking to others, touching others, dirty and unwashed, with all the sweat from the night and the foul breath, the accumulated dirt of several days smelly bedclothing. 
I don't know what they think of themselves.
I think that what they are showing the world is their utter lack of consideration, lack of respect for others and lack of respect for themselves.
And an utter lack of manners, by the way.


----------



## badgrammar

I think, sometimes, what people are showing is not a lack of respect for others, nor a lack of respect for what others think...  it's called depression.  When you don't care anymore, not for you, or your neighbors or kids, or your family....  Putting up a pretense is so far from your worries that it doesn't even occur to you, and if it does,maybe you're looking for someone to ask if everything's ok...  Walking kids to school in your bedclothes, and I pass no judgement, sounds like you just don't care anymore.  Depression.  

Maybe driving them in your bedclothes and overcoat is another story -- you assume you won't ever leave your vehicle, it's just a quick drop, then home to shower and dress.  I've never done it myself, but when I was a kid in the US, it wasn't that unusual. 

In France, I've neer seen any of that.  I have seen people who take their car half a block (we're talking 150m from school) to drop off the kids/pick them up.  But they were always dressed, from what I saw.  Then again, you put on slippers and a coat, and in a car, nobody knows the difference.


----------



## alexacohen

panjandrum said:


> It's not the only school where this happens.
> I see them every morning on my way to work - Mums in pyjamas and slippers, having a morning smoke as they walk their kids to school. When I say slippers, yes, I mean the fluffy kind.


 
Badgrammar, we were commenting on Panjandrum's post. Or at least I was.
All those people can't be suffering from depression. 

To be a fashion victim is one thing; but, do people have to carry their "I don't give a damn about what anyone thinks" that far?


----------



## badgrammar

Yes, I'm sure that you were commenting on something else... I guess I was just thinking of what I see here.  Already, at 8:10 in the morning, I have never seen a mom or dad in pyjamas and/or slippers taking their kid to school in France.  And I have never done that.  It takes me about 23.5 seconds to put on underwear, pants, a bra  and a top (or dress in warm months) and I can be out the door and take the kid to school (not HOT, per se, but presentable!)!

To go out I certainly don't wear sweat pants 'except to jog), and also, I certainly dress for whatever occasion (errands, work, social)... but I don't put on a pretty outfit and heels to go buy bread, and frankly, neither fo most women here.  The only women I know who does so is from Taiwan, dear Nichec , and she is always so perfectly "turned out" (her kids and husband, too!), that it would put a French woman to shame!!!


----------



## chics

But, Alexa, it's true that if one day you find a friend of you in pyjamas on the street, although if it was to buy bread or take children to school... you'll be worried about him! I'm sure you won't think "Oh, what a esteem he have!" neither "Wow, before he was more respectful" but "What's happening?" and, yes, maybe "And if he had a depression?". You'd think about helping him, not angry wiyh him because he's showing dirty.

I agree completely with badgrammar, change your clothes for others presentable take very few time. You won't look so glamour but good enough to go out for a little while.
And of course the same perception of woman in Paris... the French are more or less dressed as Spanish people, worse hairdo, but in dayly clothes. The only people I see here always wearing extreme fashionable clothes -which not always look very comfortable- and high heels are from Taiwan. I thought that they were like this also in their country.


----------



## Sepia

jonquiliser said:


> Yes well, what I meant was this: those who _are _racist have no difficulty with creativity. You can't deny anyone to enter providing their ethnicity as a reason. What you _can_ do is refer to anything of their attributes, saying the don't comply with "dress code" or other codes of conduct. These days, you can also say they are potential threats, fitting the  "terrorist (stereo)type". (As was the case of the Spanish lawyer trying to get on the plane.)




Nevertheless, some of them get busted - and it is not my impression that stupid people are always creative or aware of the laws they are breaking. I think it is just as much a problem of people - those directly affected and bystanders - not doing enough to bust them. It is definitely possible - an example: on the 25. August 2007, Viborg, DK, a shopkeeper was convicted and must pay a fine of 400Euro+ for refusing service to a conspicuous transvestite. It is definitely possible. 

Besides, always refusing service - stating different reasons - to persons of a certanin "race" will only work in the long run if people let it.


----------



## alexacohen

chics said:


> But, Alexa, it's true that if one day you find a friend of you in pyjamas on the street, although if it was to buy bread or take children to school... you'll be worried about him! I'm sure you won't think "Oh, what a esteem he have!" neither "Wow, before he was more respectful" but "What's happening?" and, yes, maybe "And if he had a depression?". You'd think about helping him, not angry wiyh him because he's showing dirty.


 
Well, the first thing that would come to my mind is that his/her alarm clock didn't work the morning in question. 
That is OK; emergencies are emergencies.
I would think there was something wrong if I see him/her doing the same thing several days in a row. 
And then I would worry, and if a friend would try to help.
But Panjandrum's quotation was not about one person; was about lots of people walking in their nightclothes and (fluffy) slippers. 
So it's not depression or an emergency; it's carelessness.


----------



## Outsider

In Portugal, a person who went to take their children to school wearing pyjamas would come off as a slob, and probably be one, too. Or mentally disturbed, as Badgrammar said above. You can wear what you like at home, but when you go out into a public place you're expected to dress with some care. You don't need to make a fashion statement (we're not Italians or Parisians ), but do put on something clean, tidy, and appropriate.

I understand that this is matter of culture, though, and in other countries perfectly respectable people may go out wearing pyjamas.


----------



## heidita

Outsider said:


> I understand that this is matter of culture, though, and in other countries perfectly respectable people may go out wearing pyjamas.


 
I think so , too, Outsider.

In Germany I have never seen anybody wearing pyjamas or something so "extravagant" leaving the house, but I have seen similar cases here in Spain, when I came to live here. Now this is VERY rare, but then it was quite common. You could see women leaving the house with curlers in their hair and a morning gown on, a very unfashionable "homely" one. This kind or this one. Nobody ever thought this to be disrespective or rude or a sign of mental illness.


----------



## Outsider

I can picture somebody from around here wearing a robe like that to a store or small supermarket near their home (one they can walk to), though I'd say it's not a common sight. But wearing a robe to take your kids to school would definitely be odd. Unless the person were in a hurry, and stayed inside the car; even then, I've never done it or seen it done.


----------



## Outsider

Yesterday, I saw a woman walking her dogs wearing pyjamas (no robe), at dusk.


----------



## alacant

Hi,

Very interesting, I have a question, what kind of garment is a "wife beater"?  I am fascinated by the pyjama fashion. I have lived in Canada, England, Spain and Ireland, and travelled to lots of other places, but I've never seen anyone in the street in pijamas. Am I always in the wrong place at the wrong time? 

I did read though, that in China it is a becoming a fashion statement to wear pyjamas to go out in?

Maybe they could take some lessons from those people who have pyjama days at work!

Fascinating!


----------



## Musical Chairs

In the US, seeing people out in pajamas is generally a bit rare unless it's something small like taking out the trash or maaaybe getting something really late at the grocery store (a lot of them are open 24/7 here, unlike most countries I've been to).

A wifebeater is the kind of undershirt that men wear. They look like sleeveless shirts.  http://www.digitalbrownpajamas.com/photos/uncategorized/wifebeater_1.jpg


----------



## alacant

Thank you for that, Musical Chairs,

Pity it wasn't a photo of Bruce Willis in his!

Now I remember, years ago in the  Villages in Spain, people used to wear their dressing gowns over their clothes out in the street, in the winter, and in the houses, which were cold. But still never saw them in their pijamas!

A


----------



## heidita

alacant said:


> I did read though, that in China it is a becoming a fashion statement to wear pyjamas to go out in?


 
Is it??



> Maybe they could take some lessons from those people who have pyjama days at work!


 
Where does that happen??





Musical Chairs said:


> A wifebeater is the kind of undershirt that men wear. They look like sleeveless shirts. http://www.digitalbrownpajamas.com/photos/uncategorized/wifebeater_1.jpg


 

What a name for a shirt! Well, in Spain, for some reason, this is called a "camiseta italiana" (italian t-shirt). Some people do think this camiseta is quite appropriate to leave the house.


----------



## alacant

Well, 

that wife beater is simply called a vest in England, but I think that in the US a vest is what we call a waistcoat.

Where I live, on the coast in Alicante, a lot of men who are old enough to know better wear those wifebeaters in the street. However I have to say they are not Spaniards, but retirees from the North of Europe!

I just hope they don't hear about the pijama thing.

Cheers, A


----------



## clairanne

Hi

Here in UK there is no particular dress code for anything- jeans are worn to most places. including the theatre, by a variety of ages. 

I have a South American friend who feels she needs to dress up for a trip to London but personally I would not bother and have not noticed any real difference in the dress code on the streets there.  Sports clothes are very fashionable and worn by many people who look as though they have never been within 20 miles of a gym- not me as I think they make you look fat!  I would not go out on pyjamas and would not expect to see anyone else out in them unless they were slightly odd.  I think the only rule I have, and wish all others had as well, is personal hygeine- it is awful to stand in a queue with somebody who really needs a wash badly.


----------



## Linguilly Confused

Basically where i'm from, the land of oz, you can pretty much get away with wearing anything no one really cares that much. It's a pretty much laid-back attitude to everything down here.


----------

