# No era buey



## melasa

This context is tricky, and I know there are other threads--but not like this.

From the study book "Interpretr's Edge," this is an excerpt from a witness testimony.

A couple was fighting and someone was watching. They were arguing about cheating on each other. The witness said the man said to the women:

"Le decía que dejara de salir con otros hombres,QUE NO ERA BUEY, que no estaba dispuesto a ponerse Los cuernos."

I completely do not know how to interpret this. Please help.

Also: Long explanations are fabulous. However, please leave succint options highlighted.  

Gracias con anterioridad.

melasa


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## Idiomático

The man was telling the woman to stop going out with other men, that he was not an ox and was not willing to wear horns.

(In Spanish, cuckolds "wear horns."  La mujer le pone cuernos al hombre que traiciona.)


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## micafe

He's saying he's not an ox..

Oxen have horns. A man with horns is a man that has been cheated on by his partner..


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## stretch

Idiomático said:


> The man was telling the woman to stop going out with other men, that he was not an ox and was not willing to wear horns.
> 
> (In Spanish, cuckolds "wear horns."  La mujer le pone cuernos al hombre que traiciona.)



Id, you surprise me!  This is way too literal for you!  
*
He told her to stop going out with other men, that he was no cuckold, that he wasn't willing to play second fiddle to any man.*

There's my attempt.  Hope it helps.  I know it's hard to find a good idiomatic equivalent for this, but I think the alternative sounds nonsensical to an English-speaking audience.


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## Idiomático

I was not attempting to give an idiomatic translation, Stretch.  I just wanted to point out why the man was talking about an ox and it's horns.


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## stretch

Idiomático said:


> I was not attempting to give an idiomatic translation, Stretch.  I just wanted to point out why the man was talking about an ox and it's horns.


Oh, sorry, Id.  Looking back at it, I can see that now, but at the time I just took it wrong.  I always look forward to your suggestions...you seem to have a really good grasp of the "idiomatic"!


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## micafe

stretch said:


> Oh, sorry, Id.  Looking back at it, I can see that now, but at the time I just took it wrong.  I always look forward to your suggestions...you seem to have a really good grasp of the "idiomatic"!



Hence his name..


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## k-in-sc

Note that in English "to wear horns" would not be generally understood as "to be cheated on by one's partner." The whole horns-ox analogy would be lost on people who were not familiar with that concept.


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## stretch

k-in-sc said:


> Note that in English "to wear horns" would not be generally understood as "to be cheated on by one's partner." The whole horns-ox analogy would be lost on people who were not familiar with that concept.



That's precisely why I mentioned this in a previous post:
_"I know it's hard to find a good idiomatic equivalent for this, but I think the alternative sounds nonsensical to an English-speaking audience."_


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## k-in-sc

Never hurts to clarify. The concept of "horns" exists in so many languages (even in English, centuries ago) that people often see it as universal, but it's not.
But I wouldn't translate it as "play second fiddle" -- that's a little too delicate and indirect. It means "he wasn't stupid and he wasn't going to (stand by and) allow himself to be cheated on," plain and simple, and that's what I would say.


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## stretch

k-in-sc said:


> Never hurts to clarify. The concept of "horns" exists in so many languages (even in English, centuries ago) that people often see it as universal, but it's not.
> But I wouldn't translate it as "play second fiddle" -- that's a little too delicate and indirect. It means "he wasn't stupid and he wasn't going to (stand by and) allow himself to be cheated on," plain and simple, and that's what I would say.



That definitely conveys the meaning more bluntly.  I was just looking for a common expression that would be comparable to the original, but your suggestion makes it much clearer.


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## k-in-sc

I guess it's a matter of how blunt you perceive "ponerse los cuernos" to be. To me there's nothing subtle about it ...


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## stretch

k-in-sc said:


> I guess it's a matter of how blunt you perceive "ponerse los cuernos" to be. To me there's nothing subtle about it ...



Actually, it is an idiomatic expression, so it's meaning is innately veiled.  Of course, to those who are familiar with the expression, its meaning is obvious.  My point was that I was looking for an idiomatic expression in English that would get the same meaning across, by means of the deep meaning of the phrase, while on the surface, the individual meanings of the words utilized would not indicate a literal meaning applicable to the situation.  So, while the usage of the phrase is blunt indeed, the phrase itself, due to its nature as an idiomatic expression, merits being rendered as an idiomatic expression in the target language.  Subtlety was never my intent, but rather an equivalent idiomatic expression.  I'll give you and example:

ST - "Me estás tomando el pelo".

Translation with idiomatic expression - "You're pulling my leg."
"Blunt" translation (as I've described it) - "You're lying to me."

That's what I meant by blunt.  But as I said, yours might be the best option, because I for one can't think of a better idiomatic expression that would be equivalent to the ST.


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## micafe

"Ponerle los cuernos a alguien" means "to *cheat* on someone". It's as simple as that, no subtlety about it. 

The person who's been cheated on is called *"cornudo"*. Strong word. There's nothing subtle about it either, it's  an insult. People have been killed because of it.


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## melasa

Holy cow! Thanks for all the help!!

The glossary in interpreter's edge says interpet it literally as "ox"
and offer a "cultural broker" explanation to the significance with a side comment by the interpreter.

It seemed to literal to me, so that's why I started this thread. I was hoping to find an
idiomatic equivalent to help pacify the awkwardness of the listener..OX???

What is this interpreter talking about, right?

How about:
lady killer
ladies man
horny bastard 
because it is like un "mujeriego,"¿ no?
Lady dazzler 
casinova
or simply, CHEATER, ¿no?


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## melasa

stretch said:


> Actually, it is an idiomatic expression, so it's meaning is innately veiled.  Of course, to those who are familiar with the expression, its meaning is obvious.  My point was that I was looking for an idiomatic expression in English that would get the same meaning across, by means of the deep meaning of the phrase, while on the surface, the individual meanings of the words utilized would not indicate a literal meaning applicable to the situation.  So, while the usage of the phrase is blunt indeed, the phrase itself, due to its nature as an idiomatic expression, merits being rendered as an idiomatic expression in the target language.  Subtlety was never my intent, but rather an equivalent idiomatic expression.  I'll give you and example:
> 
> ST - "Me estás tomando el pelo".
> 
> Translation with idiomatic expression - "You're pulling my leg."
> "Blunt" translation (as I've described it) - "You're lying to me."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I meant by blunt.  But as I said, yours might be the best option, because I for one can't think of a better idiomatic expression that would be equivalent to the ST.


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## Lurrezko

> How about:
> lady killer
> ladies man
> horny bastard
> because it is like un "mujeriego,"¿ no?
> Lady dazzler
> casinova
> or simply, CHEATER, ¿no?



But the "ox" or *cornudo* is not the cheater, but the person who's been cheated!


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## k-in-sc

"Ox": person who has been cheated *on*


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## Lurrezko

k-in-sc said:


> "Ox": person who has been cheated *on*



I'll keep it in mind, thank you!


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## Todd The Bod

Idiomático said:


> The man was telling the woman to stop going out with other men, that he was not an ox and was not willing to wear horns.
> 
> (In Spanish, cuckolds "wear horns."  La mujer le pone cuernos al hombre que traiciona.)




I really like the literal translation followed by the explanation of the idiom that cuckolds wear horns in Spanish.  You explained it both ways which I always find most helpful.


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## flljob

Un buey es un güey: un tonto, un bobo, un estúpido, un pendejo, etc.


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## melasa

Eso sí. Un imbécil, un pinche tarado, mequetrefe, descarado.

Entonces: some fucking idiot, dumbass, están bien?


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## k-in-sc

Those are too strong. "Dumb" or maybe ''dumb ox'' would do fine.


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## melasa

k-in-sc said:


> Those are too strong. "Dumb" or maybe ''dumb ox'' would do fine.




It implies promiscuity, what about pervert, or "player"?


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## k-in-sc

You've got it backwards. He was saying that SHE was cheating on HIM but that he was not a "buey'' who would allow the situation to continue.


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## Lurrezko

k-in-sc said:


> You've got it backwards. He was saying that SHE was cheating on HIM but that he was not a "buey'' who would allow the situation to continue.


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## SydLexia

Given that it is supposed to be a statement by a witness it seems imperative to be as faithful as possible to the original:

"...he wasn't some ox, and he wasn't about to 'wear the horns'" (with an explanatory note).

If you want a more 'English' version, perhaps:

"....he wasn't some poor fool who was going to let his wife run around with other men."

syd


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## Seica

flljob said:


> Un buey es un güey: un tonto, un bobo, un estúpido, un pendejo, etc.


 
In Spain we use the image of an *ox* (ie. a castrated and tame male) as opposed to a *bull* (an agressive, _real_ male).

My (personal) interpretation of the sentence is that the speaker wants to mean that he won't carry his horns calmly and harmlessly as oxes do but he'll get mad like a fighting bull.


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## k-in-sc

Seica said:


> ... as oxes do ...


Child, children; ox, *oxen*


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## stretch

SydLexia said:


> Given that it is supposed to be a statement by a witness it seems imperative to be as faithful as possible to the original:
> 
> "...he wasn't some ox, and he wasn't about to 'wear the horns'" (with an explanatory note).
> 
> If you want a more 'English' version, perhaps:
> 
> "....he wasn't some poor fool who was going to let his wife run around with other men."
> 
> syd



What do you mean, "English version"?  Isn't that what interpreters do...give the "English version"?

I understand the part about "an explanatory note" and I believe that's in fact what the author of this book suggested.  It is simply a matter of style and personal preference whether one uses a literal version (Meaningless in English unless accompanied by the explanation you mentioned), hopefully accompanied by explanation, or a more idiomatic version, which would be something akin to the "English version" you offered.   



			
				k-in-sc said:
			
		

> Those are too strong. "Dumb" or maybe ''dumb ox'' would do fine.


Wow, now *that* is what I call a preference for "subtlety." 
Honestly, I don't think that something like "dumb-ass" would be too strong in English.  The Spanish usage indicates a rather sensitive issue that has a stronger impact that simply "dumb ox" in my opinion, because "ox" in English doesn't bear the same connotations as in Spanish.  "Fucking idiot" might be too strong, but I think "dumb-ass" would be right on.  We have to remember that, though the original doesn't use what we might call "curse words," it still has a much stronger impact on the listener than "dumb ox" would in English, and since this is such an essential element of interpretation/translation, it should be accounted for in some way, and in English, perhaps the best way to do that is through the usage of cursing.


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## Oceanotti

Idiomático said:


> (In Spanish, cuckolds "wear horns."  La mujer le pone cuernos al hombre que traiciona.)



Y el hombre también le pone _los cuernos _a su mujer cuando la engaña. En España no se suele decir que un hombre engañado sea un "buey", ni un toro, aunque veo más apropiada la metáfora en el primer caso: no en vano los bueyes están castrados, y los toros se asocian a la potencia y la virilidad. Así que quizá también serviría:

"buey" --> _"cuckold __eunuch__"_​


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## melasa

Oceanotti said:


> Y el hombre también le pone _los cuernos _a su mujer cuando la engaña. En España no se suele decir que un hombre engañado sea un "buey", ni un toro, aunque veo más apropiada la metáfora en el primer caso: no en vano los bueyes están castrados, y los toros se asocian a la potencia y la virilidad. Así que quizá también serviría:
> 
> "buey" --> _"cuckold __eunuch__"_​



Esta expresión es de México...no estoy seguro cuanta implicación lo de España.
Todavía no he oído opiniones de mi lista de ejemplos de Los otros foreros--todos mis ejemplos--no sólo unos.

Saludos


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## k-in-sc

melasa said:


> Todavía no he oído opiniones de mi lista de ejemplos de Los otros foreros--todos mis ejemplos--no sólo unos.


You mean "ladies' man," "pervert," etc.? All completely off the mark, and we've tried to tell you why. Are you paying attention?


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