# Persian: ظرفیت



## aramesh

Persian: ظرفیت

Hi, dustan!

I'm trying to find a good translation for _zarfiyyat _in this context:

ظرفیت ها و پیشینه ها گفتگوی فرهنگی ایران و ژاپن

I know zarfiyyat as "volume, capacity" (and "valence" in chemistry). What about the meaning in this context?

Is something like "Significance (extent) and background od the cultural dialogue between Iran and Japan".

Thank you in advance for your kind comments,

Aramesh


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## molana

aramesh said:


> ظرفیت ها و پیشینه ها گفتگوی فرهنگی ایران و ژاپن


ظرفیت ها و پیشینه ها*ی* گفتگوی فرهنگی ایران و ژاپن؟


aramesh said:


> I'm trying to find a good translation for _zarfiyyat _in this context:


_potential?
http://www.interculturaldialogue.eu...Dialogue,_Lessons_from_BH,_Zoran_Brajovic.pdf_
Potential Dialogue
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09662839.2016.1186013
Medical research policy for Canada. Potential dialogue between MD and MP.  - PubMed - NCBI


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## PersoLatin

I think in this context 'extent' (as you have indicted), or 'reach', is the best fit for ظرفیت.


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## colognial

The precedents and the potentials in the cultural dialogue between Japan and Iran?


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## aramesh

colognial said:


> The precedents and the potentials in the cultural dialogue between Japan and Iran?



It seems perfect to me...thank you all for your great help!

Aramesh


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> The precedents and the potentials in the cultural dialogue between Japan and Iran?


hi colognial, can گنجايش be interpreted as 'potential' in the same context, i.e. 
گنجايش ها و پیشینه ها*ی* گفتگوی فرهنگی ایران و ژاپن ?


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## colognial

I think so, PersoLatin, as the two words can mainly be used one instead of the other, except maybe in a scientific context where each has its own established niche.


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## PersoLatin

^ Thanks colognial. To me 'potential' has no implicit boundary or preset limit, we can say 'if we take such an action... we can/will increase the potential of...', but both ظرفیت and گنجايش, seem to imply a predetermined capacity/ability, that is not changeable, what do you think?


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## molana

PersoLatin said:


> To me 'potential' has no implicit boundary or preset limit, we can say 'if we take such an action... we can/will increase the potential of...', but both ظرفیت and گنجايش, seem to imply a predetermined capacity/ability, that is not changeable, what do you think?



Hi PersoLatin, may I give my opinion?
I think the problem is with the Farsi phrase. The original phrase must be:
پیشینه ها و ظرفیت های *شناخته نشده/ناشناخته/کشف نشده/بالقوه* در گفتگوی فرهنگی میان ایران و ژاپن
But as native Farsi speakers we can bridge this gap.


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## colognial

PersoLatin said:


> ^ Thanks colognial. To me 'potential' has no implicit boundary or preset limit, we can say 'if we take such an action... we can/will increase the potential of...', but both ظرفیت and گنجايش, seem to imply a predetermined capacity/ability, that is not changeable, what do you think?



I agree that 'potentiality' is by definition an unknown, whereas 'capacity' tends to be known and quantifiable. What saves the word "ظرفیت ها" from being a poor choice here is its being in plural form, I guess. Of course the writer of the sentence might have gone for بالقوگی ها, a good word, except that he/she didn't. So we will just have to try to use whatever potential the word has to offer!


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## PersoLatin

How about a new word like *جاداشت*/jâdaŝt for potential? 

In English, potential doesn't relate to power/potent any longer, it means unrealized/unused capacity/ability, or "*having or showing the capacity* (not capacity itself) to develop into something in the future", and *جاداشت* means the same thing, more than ظرفیت does.


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## colognial

I think جاداشت as a neologism is nearer in meaning to گنجایش/ظرفیت than it is to 'potential'.


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> I think جاداشت as a neologism is nearer in meaning to گنجایش/ظرفیت than it is to 'potential'.


So it has potential to replace ظرفیت .

I did a quick check online (not too diligently) and ظرفية, in Arabic, doesn't mean capacity or potential, rather قدرة or power, so it's intriguing to know why it has entered Persian as capacity and now potential.


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## colognial

Meanings in the original Arabic tend to complicate things somewhat. Perhaps we've only superficially comprehended those meanings. And we must at times simply have chosen to suit a borrowing to our immediate purpose. Also, Arabic has developed and changed in the process. All I can contribute to the question of why ظرفیت has come to mean 'capacity' and by extension 'potential', is to say that power, or a certain kind of power, is contained within and when it does manifest itself it does so by springing from an inner resource. As such, all power (or all power of a certain nature) correlates directly to the capacity, i.e. to the extent to which power can be accumulated without being exerted. And power that is just there without being exerted is of course a potential. Yes, no?! I'm confused!


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> Meanings in the original Arabic tend to complicate things somewhat. Perhaps we've only superficially comprehended those meanings. And we must at times simply have chosen to suit a borrowing to our immediate purpose. Also, Arabic has developed and changed in the process.


Seems like the best time to correct it by switching to a Persian equivalent.



colognial said:


> All I can contribute to the question of why ظرفیت has come to mean 'capacity' and by extension 'potential', is to say that power, or a certain kind of power, is contained within and when it does manifest itself it does so by springing from an inner resource. As such, all power (or all power of a certain nature) correlates directly to the capacity, i.e. to the extent to which power can be accumulated without being exerted. And power that is just there without being exerted is of course a potential. Yes, no?! I'm confused!


Correct.


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## colognial

PersoLatin said:


> Seems like the best time to correct it by switching to a Persian equivalent.



A Persian equivalent for ظرفیت? But there is already that other word گنجایش, though I would definitely sanction جاداری, as it is grammatically different to the other two and has potential uses. I agree, however, that we could do with more words for 'potential', that is, not counting نهفتگی، نهفته، امکان، ممکن، etc. So let me think: How about نهانگی, pronounced 'nahaaneggi'?


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## PersoLatin

colognial said:


> نهفتگی، نهفته، ، etc. So let me think: How about نهانگی, pronounced 'nahaaneggi'?


These are good but lack the power or potency element, they could do with the addition of نیرو, so نهان نیرو or مانده نیرو or ماند نیرو or نهفت نیرو.


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## molana

What about نَهُفتار, in the manner of گفتار، نوشتار، ...?
-ity | Definition, meaning & more | Collins Dictionary -ity in Potential*ity *shows state/condition and* ار- *plays the same role in Persian. Though it is also the case for *گی- *in نهانگی.


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## PersoLatin

molana said:


> What about نَهُفتار, in the manner of گفتار، نوشتار، ...?
> -ity | Definition, meaning & more | Collins Dictionary -ity in Potential*ity *shows state/condition and* ار- *plays the same role in Persian. Though it is also the case for *گی- *in نهانگی.


We are getting there. How about خفت نیرو short for نیروی خفته, by definition خفته has potentiality built in.


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## molana

PersoLatin said:


> We are getting there. How about خفت نیرو short for نیروی خفته, by definition خفته has potentiality built in.


Good. خفته/نهفته  both sound to me like بالقوه.


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## colognial

I'd use خفته as a translation for 'dormant', molana. And, I like نهفتار very much; I feel it could stand for an object that is somehow potential, e.g. something not easily detectable. An example could be the silent majority within a society/nation: نهفتار جامعه ی ایرانی.


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## molana

colognial said:


> And, I like نهفتار very much; I feel it could stand for an object that is somehow potential, e.g. something not easily detectable. An example could be the silent majority within a society/nation: نهفتار جامعه ی ایرانی.


Hi colognial,
Your feeling is correct. It can stand for *latency*. However, the Academy has coined *نهفتگی*.
معنی مرحلۀ نهفتگی | واژه‌های مصوّب فرهنگستان


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## colognial

Good coinage! So what's the final verdict on a good word in Persian for 'potential' (both as a noun and as an adjective)?


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## PersoLatin

Another flavour: توانایی نهفته or  توانایی نهان , نهان توان , توان داشت


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## colognial

توانایی نهفته says it all, I guess, while being simple.


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## molana

I think we must be in search of a one-word equivalent for potentiality. Otherwise, there already exists two-word expressions in Persian which are idiomatic:
تواناییِ/ ظرفیتِ/ قابلیتِ بالقوه/نهفته/ناشناخته


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