# みんなこんなことを誰かに云われた



## favq

> This post concerns the following excerpt from 山男の四月 by Kenji Miyazawa.
> 「[...]きさまが町へはいったら、おれはすぐ、この支那人はあやしいやつだとどなってやる。さあどうだ。」
> 支那人は、外でしんとしてしまいました。[...]いままで峠や林のなかで、荷物をおろしてなにかひどく考え込んでいたような支那人は、*みんなこんなことを誰かに云われたのだなと考えました*。



My doubt is about the highlighted sentence: "みんなこんなことを誰かに云われたのだなと考えました". I'm confused by the fact that 云われた is in the past (た) form. So, this seems to literally mean "He thought that everyone was told such a thing by someone". What is the correct way of understanding this sentence?

Thank you in advance.


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## DaylightDelight

Japanese language uses "relative tense" system -- the tense of sub clauses are chosen in reference to the tense of the main clause.
In your sentence, the main clause is "(支那人は)考えました".  The past tense is used with 云われた in reference to the point of 考えました.
You could interpret the sentence either as "He thought that everyone *had been told* such a thing by someone" or "He thought '_everyone was told such a thing by someone_.'"


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## SoLaTiDoberman

> ・・・外でしんとしてしまいました。*山男は*これは支那人が、両手を胸で重ねて泣いているのかなともおもいました。そうしてみると、いままで峠や林のなかで、荷物をおろしてなにかひどく考え込んでいたような支那人は、みんな(=全員、すべからく（副詞））こんなことを誰かに云われたのだなと*(山男は)*考えました。山男はもうすっかりかわいそうになって、・・・


Your abbreviation of the context might bring about a confusion.
However, I think your understanding is correct and #2 is more accurate regarding to the tense.

My try:
"Yamaotoko thought that all the Chinese seen ever who had seemed to think something so seriously in the mountain paths and in the woods, putting off their burden, had been said something like this by someone."


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## frequency

favq said:


> "He thought that everyone was told such a thing by someone".


Good. Guess what?
_「[...]きさまが町へはいったら、おれはすぐ、この支那人はあやしいやつだとどなってやる。さあどうだ。」_


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## 810senior

> そうしてみると、いままで峠や林のなかで、荷物をおろしてなにかひどく考え込んでいたような支那人は、みんなこんなことを誰かに云われたのだなと考えました。


This sentence might be confusing because it is possible for anyone to think that the previous word(支那人) would be the subject for the verb 考える, without judging from the context before and after the very sentence.

Below to diagram the sentence:
（山男は）支那人はみんなこんなことを誰かに言われたのだなと（と考えました。）
→　山男は(subject in the main clause but left out in the original)考えました(active non-present for 考える)
→　支那人は(subject in the passive clause)みんな(adv. as in _all_)こんなことを(object for 言う)誰かに(the actor for 言う)言われた(passive non-present for 言う)
Translation:　_Yamaotoko thought that the Chinese was[had been] all thrown such a (heartless) word at by other people._


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## frequency

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> "Yamaotoko thought





810senior said:


> （山男は）支那人はみんなこんなことを誰かに言われたのだなと（と考えました。）


Wonderful! I agree with you.


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## karlalou

favq said:


> "みんなこんなことを誰かに云われたのだなと考えました". I'm confused by the fact that 云われた is in the past (た) form.


If it's in present tense, 云われる, instead of 云われた, it still works fine here.

Just if it's 云われる, it says about something has been happening and will continue, while 云われた says about past events and the future is just not relevant, out of thought of the speaker, maybe 云われた expresses more about the speaker's sorrow for 'みんな'.


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## frequency

favq said:


> I'm confused by the fact that 云われた is in the past (た) form.


Some Chinese people came up there, but they were told so. They were doing like that there because of the shocking heartless word. He saw (or recalled) those people, and thought so.


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## favq

Thank you for the replies; it was very helpful.


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