# even though



## yuechu

大家好！

I noticed that the Wordreference dictionary has translations for "even if" but not for "even though". Is this because it is a difficult phrase to translate?
For example, if one wanted to say "Even though people (in a certain country or city) are technically not supposed to be going outside because of the coronavirus, people still do in order to get fresh air, exercise, etc.", how would you translate it to Chinese?

Thanks!


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## Jack12345

I looked up it in Bing.
Even if 即使...也
Even though = even if 也可以翻译为尽管

因为冠状病毒（引起的疫情），尽管（大家）不认为人们会外出，但人们仍然为了呼吸新鲜空气，锻炼身体等原因而外出。


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## yuechu

Thanks so much for your help, Jack12345!


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## Jack12345

yuechu said:


> Thanks so much for your help, Jack12345!


You are welcome.


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## albert_laosong

Jack12345 said:


> I looked up it in Bing.
> Even if 即使...也
> Even though = even if 也可以翻译为尽管
> 
> 因为冠状病毒（引起的疫情），尽管（大家）不认为人们会外出，但人们仍然为了呼吸新鲜空气，锻炼身体等原因而外出。


be supposed to, it may be more accurate to translate it as "不应该”:
因为冠状病毒（引起的疫情），尽管此时严格来说人们还是不应该外出，但人们仍然为了呼吸新鲜空气，锻炼身体等原因而外出。


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## Jack12345

albert_laosong said:


> be supposed to,


Yes, the fourth item of suppose in wordReference, it is "expect or require".
Albert_laosong is right.  "be supposed to do" means 应该...
"be not supposed to do" means 不应该...


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## yuechu

Thank you both for your help!


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## SimonTsai

@Jack12345, there is a difference between '_even though_' and '_even if_', I think.

在____，*雖然*為了防疫，民眾被要求儘量待在家裡，*還是*有人為了呼吸新鮮空氣或運動而外出。


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## Jack12345

这个是Bing词典的解释。


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## albert_laosong

Yes, the two expressions may not be different in meaning, but even though seems more informal, while even if sounds a little bit more serious and has a stronger tone. Only a feeling.


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## SimonTsai

雖然 / 儘管 <== even though
即使 / 就算 <== even if

In short, '_even if_' is typically hypothetical whilst '_even though_' is not. Compare the sentences below:

Honey, I will love you for ever, I swear. *Even if* you did not love me, I would still love you with my whole heart.
I don't know why I love him so badly. *Even though* he does not love me in the slightest, I still love him.


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## yuechu

SimonTsai said:


> 雖然 / 儘管 <== even though
> 即使 / 就算 <== even if


Oh, that's great. Thanks, SimonTsai! 

The dictionary I use says that 即使 also means "even though". Is it true?


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## albert_laosong

Yes, I think SimonTsai may be right, even if can be hypothetical while even though can't be?  
As per dictionary, even though is "Despite the fact that", while even if is both "Despite the possibility that" and "Despite the fact that".


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## yuechu

Hi, Albert!
Thanks for your reply!



albert_laosong said:


> even if can be hypothetical while even though can't be?


That's right!



albert_laosong said:


> even though is "Despite the fact that", while even if is both "Despite the possibility that" and "Despite the fact that".


For me, "even though" is "despite the fact that" and "even if" is "despite the possibility that" but not "despite the fact that". I think the difference is quite clear in English usually (whereas in other languages, this isn't always the case).

(In French, "even if" (même si) often has both meanings.)


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## albert_laosong

yuechu said:


> The dictionary I use says that 即使 also means "even though". Is it true?


I think “even though" can be interpreted as 即使，but not all 即使 can be interpreted as even though.
That is, when 即使 is used in those hypothetical sentences, it can only be interpreted as "even if".


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## yuechu

OK, I see. 谢谢!


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## albert_laosong

yuechu said:


> For me, "even though" is "despite the fact that" and "even if" is "despite the possibility that" but not "despite the fact that".


But I saw an example in the dictionary: he is a great President, even if he has many enemies. 
I think this is "despite the fact that", right?


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## yuechu

I tried looking it up in the dictionary just now but it wasn't recognizing the phrase... I should have checked another site as well!

That is a good example. I think it might be common in more formal English.
People may say otherwise (and please do if you do!), but I think that in a lot of people's speech, "even though" and "even if" are distinct from each other (and that "even if" doesn't usually mean "even though" (despite the fact that)). People around me do not usually (or ever?) use "even if" to mean "despite the fact that", but I am not at all surprised that it exists.

I also think that it might be used stylistically, because it has a different nuance... and is more vague, since it can have both meanings.

Let's see what others say...

EDIT: I have a feeling that this type of "even if" might be more common in British English. Would anyone agree?
I was looking at some other threads and found:
Even if...
Unlike fellow forum member "lingobingo", I make a clear distinction between "even though" and "even if", and I think that they sound different. "even if" here is less certain than "even though".
    I suppose that "even if" here means "even though there is the possibility that..."


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## albert_laosong

Thanks, @yuechu what you said is very helpful. Yes, maybe even if is occasionally also used for "despite the fact" too, but it's helpful to know that in everyday conversations it's usually not.


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## yuechu

Still looking for other relevant posts. Here is a message from the English forum: (It is a bit more complex than I thought)
even if / even though


Einstein said:


> The "lively discussion" arose because it was felt that in some cases "even if" can mean "even though". It tends to be the Americans who find this more acceptable, but opinion is divided among them too. Any views?



Here is a counter-example. I'm not sure if I agree with the usage... but it's true that it exists:

even if / even though


Forero said:


> "I still disagree with his analysis even if he did sit beside me in all my English classes at the university."



(some forum members in that thread (native speakers) agree with the usage, and others think it is incorrect)


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## albert_laosong

I think I will add a little note about the Chinese words 虽然/尽管， and 即便/即使。
虽然/尽管 is mostly used for "despite the fact" , but it can be sometimes used for "despite the possibility" too in everyday conversations , for example:
虽然将来我不一定能成为什么大人物，但我一定会努力的。
尽管现在再努力也不一定有好的结果，但我还是会继续努力的。

then 即便/即使 can also be used for “despite the fact” in everyday conversations, for example:
即便他撞了你，他也是不小心，没必要生这么大气。
即使公司这次没有给我们加薪，我也能理解，毕竟经济不是很景气。

EDIT:  just remembered that we have another word used informally mainly, 就算，it's very similar to 即便/即使 In both meaning and usage.


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## SimonTsai

albert_laosong said:


> 将来我不一定能成为什么大人物


This is a fact to me.


yuechu said:


> The dictionary I use says that 即使 also means "even though". Is it true?


At first, I thought that '即使' is used exclusively for '_even if_', but just now I changed my mind. Yes, it can mean '_even though_', but there is a difference making it possible in certain contexts where '雖然' is not.


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## SimonTsai

Here are two alternatives: '縱使' and '縱然', both of which can mean '_even if_' and are slightly literary:

青青子衿，悠悠我心。*縱*我不往，子*寧*不嗣音？
*縱然*灌他一杯兩盞，易得醉，易得醒，*也*脫哄他不得。


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## albert_laosong

not slightly literary, very literary.


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## SimonTsai

They are not that literary in themselves:

但，【*縱然】*如此，我【*還是】*想試試；難得遇見讓我動了心的，我不想輕易放棄。
*【縱使】*有一天，我退出了這論壇，這論壇*【仍】*會繼續存在，會不斷有新成員加入。


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## albert_laosong

yeah they are not that strange in writing, but when I chat with someone in most cases I wouldn't use them I think. I would use 即便，即使 or 就算。


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