# FR: male mouse - la souris, il/elle + accord de l'adjectif



## Country Joy

I am wanting to write a children's story in French about male mouse.  How do I describe this character, since "mouse" in French is "la souris" but the character is male.  Which adjectival form do I use... masculine or feminine? or is there a specific vocab. word for male mouse?

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads merged to create this one.


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## Suehil

As far as I know, adjectives in French agree with the _word, _rather than with the concept.  So, unless someone comes up with a word for a Daddy mouse, it looks like you're stuck with feminine agreement.


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## Argyll

You might make your mouse 'un mulot' (a field mouse).


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## Agent Literary

Hello Country Joy and welcom to the forum!

You could get around the problem by talking about "le souriceau" which is a baby mouse and possibly even more appropriate for a children's story. I don't know if there is a specific French word for a male mouse, but I think if you gave the mouse a typically male French name, you would be fine to talk about "la souris".

Hope that helps


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## Country Joy

Thank you for those alternative words- very helpful!  Question though, for Mickey Mouse in French translations, was he referred to as "la souris" and if so, was his pronoun "elle"?  That wouldn't read correctly surely?  Were his adjectives feminine or masculine?


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## sandrine75

Or use "souris" as a surname. Say "*monsieur* Souris".
"Monsieur Souris est content etc..."
"Monsieur et Madame Souris..."
"Monsieur Souris et ses enfants..."


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## VIBRIS

Hi

In French there is no specific word for "male mouse", but as you want to write a children story you should say "Monsieur Souris".

Bye


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## Argyll

Country Joy said:


> Question though, for Mickey Mouse in French translations, was he referred to as "la souris" and if so, was his pronoun "elle"?  That wouldn't read correctly surely?  Were his adjectives feminine or masculine?


He is referred to as 'il', which is not a problem in French, as the target audience are blissfully unaware that 'a mouse' is 'une souris'. They would probably pronounce it 'mooz' and think it is a funny surname.


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## Drechuin

For example "Mickey Mouse est une belle souris. Il est l'ami de Pluto".


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## JeanDeSponde

Oui, Mickey est une souris américaine !


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## Nick.G.123

ok for my french story
theres a male mouse
when someone is saying something to him
would it be
à son ami
or
à sa amie


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## Tabac

_son ami_ (masculine); _son amie_ (feminine) not _sa _because the word begins with a vowel.


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## Nick.G.123

ok thanks
but would it be feminin or masculin because its a male mouse but mouse is feminin


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## jann

Welcome, Nick! 

In French, the posessive ajective (here: _son, sa,_ or _ses_) agrees in number and gender with the noun it modifies (here: friend = _ami, amie_).

So if a boy has a friend who is female: _son ami*e*_ = his (female) friend
And if a boy has a friend who is male: _son ami_ = his (male) friend.

And if a girl has a friend who is female: _son ami*e*_ = her (female) friend
And if a girl has a friend who is male: _son ami_ = her (male) friend.

Notice how the _son_ never changes.  It has to be _son_ because the next words starts with a vowel.  In short, _son _and _sa _and _ses _all mean "his" and "her" - so to know whether it's "his" or "her" in a given sentence, you need more context.

The fact that the friend is a mouse doesn't matter, because you're not saying "his/her mouse," instead you're saying "his/her friend."  So you get to chose _ami_ for a friend who is a boy and _amie_ for a friend who is a girl, regardless of the fact that that friend is a mouse (and that the french word for "mouse" is feminine).

On the other hand, if you wanted to say "his/her mouse," you would have only one option:  _sa souris_, because "souris" is feminine and starts with a consonant.

Does that make sense?


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## Nick.G.123

yes that makes sense
but its not what im asking
if someone is saying something
to the male mouse
is it considered feminin or masculin

if it helps
heres the context
a dit Matthieu à son ami(e) (Matthieu's friend is the mouse)


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## jann

Sorry, Nick, I was editing my post while you were replying, because I realized that I wasn't answering your question.  Please reread my message above.  […]

You're using sa/son to modify "friend."  The mouse friend is a boy, so you will pick "ami."  Then, because "ami" is masculine, you will use "son."  ->> _... a dit Matthieu à son ami._


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## Nick.G.123

ok wait
so if in a different sentence it was "the mouse"
it would be "la souris" right?


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## jann

Correct.


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## Akilias

In French how do you describe something with a feminine noun that is masculine?

Say you are talking about a male mouse. Would you still use la souris?


--- Merci beaucoup in advance.


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## jann

Welcome, Akilias! 

This exact same question has been discussed before, so I have transferred your post into that existing thread.   Please read back through the previous messages and I believe you will find the answer to your question.

The biological sex of an animal doesn't affect the grammatical gender of the word we use to name that animal.  A mouse, be it a "boy" mouse or a "girl" mouse, is always _une souris, _grammatically feminine.  This is just the way the French language works.  Of course it is always possible to have a special word for the male and female of a given species (e.g., "stallion" vs. "mare" for horses).  I do not know if such words exist for male and female mice in French... 

Jann
Moderator


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## dublin2

I know this is an old thread, folks, but I was looking over an essay I submitted as part of an  'Autobiographie' module when studying French in 2007.  My problem is also with the gender of a mouse (!).
  The mouse featured in a story I wrote as a child, and was definitely male.
Here's how I put it in my essay -

"La Souris qui Couine a couiné pour avoir du fromage.
- Bon, j'ai dit, si c’est comme ça que tu vois les choses, nous allons rentrer chez nous pour te chercher du fromage.
- Super, du fromage, j’en raffole, a-t-_elle _ répondu"

I suspect now that I could have put a-t-_il_, not elle - based on the above "_a dit Matthieu à son ami" (LA souris)._
But....I'm still not 100% sure!

Well, I know it's not very important, but I'd like to send the essay to a friend in Montreal, so I might as well get the little details just right!


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## pointvirgule

Yes, dublin2, you may merrily write _a-t-il_, since your character is male. The fact that his _species _is referred to by a feminine noun has no bearing here.

_J'ai une souris qui s'appelle Gérald. Il est très gentil, c'est une bonne souris._


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## snarkhunter

Hello,

If you really want a _noun_ that will match the _gender_ and your mouse is very young, you may consider using "(un) souriceau", which is for a male young mouse. Though it should now be considered rather _literary_. There also used to be "'(une) souricette" for female young mice, but this is not used much any longer these days!


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## dublin2

I'm fairly sure I don't want to use a literary term for "my" mouse. He was an imaginary character in my childhood, but he "lived" somewhere just round the corner (that's about as far as my childhood knowledge of my neighbourhood went!). So he was a "contemporary", not a character in a fairytale - a quick piece of internet research places the words _souriceau_ and _souricelle_ in works by La Fontaine and Hans Christian Anderson, so that immediately makes them seem old-fashioned.
Thanks anyway Snarkhunter, for adding to my limited knowledge of French literary terms!
My mouse only featured in one work ever (now, unfortunately, lost for ever to the world of literature!).  But the essay I wrote in second year at NUI Maynooth celebrated him, and that time of my life, as remembered in a couple of special memories from my childhood.

I wanted to post a link to the essay, but I received a message "New members are not allowed post links".
Any way around that?


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## Maître Capello

Note that both _il_ (referring to the sex of the mouse) and _elle_ (referring to the gender of _souris_) are correct. Depending on the exact context, you may prefer one or the other. If the male mouse has a name – hence is probably referred to as _he/him_ rather than _it_ in English – it makes more sense to use _il_ than _elle_. If it is just any mouse, I'd rather use _elle_ (even for a male).

EDIT: Just saw your last post. In that case, you should definitely refer to "your" mouse as _il_.


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