# פלשתי לתחום לא לי



## hadronic

Hello, I'm surprised about this sentence : פלשתי לתחום לא לי, which I guess means "I ventured into a domain not mine". Wouldn't it be more "normal" to say לתחום לא שלי ? Or even, לתחום שלא שלי ?

Thx!


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## Drink

It's the same as "לתחום שלא לי" but with an omitted ש-, which as we've discussed before is allowed in some places. I'm guessing "שלא שלי" would probably be more common colloquially.


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## hadronic

I didn't know Modern Hebrew could drop the ש... I'm gonna try to find that place where we've already discussed about that... In any event, whereas לתחום לא לי seems ok, לתחום לי doesn't sound ok at all. Just that small לא would elicit this construction? Weird.


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## Drink

hadronic said:


> I didn't know Modern Hebrew could drop the ש... I'm gonna try to find that place where we've already discussed about that... In any event, whereas לתחום לא לי seems ok, לתחום לי doesn't sound ok at all. Just that small לא would elicit this construction? Weird.



I found an old thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/threads/omission-of-ש-in-relative-clauses-with-a-resumptive-pronoun.2529467/, although I remember there being one more recently (like a few months ago).

It's not the לא. You can say התחום הוא לי.


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## hadronic

Ok, there are two problems here.
One is לי vs שלי : we can say either התחום הוא לי or התחום הוא שלי. Fine, I got to agree.

The other problem is, that possesive construction is part of another clause (a relative clause), but for some reason, using לא allows getting rid of the relative marker ש.  Ok:  לתחום לא לי. Not ok:  לתחום לי. Should be: לתחום ש-לי or לתחום שהוא לי.
For some reason, לתחום לא לי is ok when we'd expect לתחום ש(הוא) לא לי.


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## Drink

The thread I linked to above concludes that in formal Hebrew, ש- can be omitted before a preposition, but not before a verb. Maybe we have just found that it can be omitted before לא as well. However, omitting the ש- in התפוח [ש]לא אכלתי would not sound right to me, and neither would it in פלשתי לתחום [ש-]לי. So clearly the real rule is more complicated.


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## hadronic

What intriguates me the most, is that beyond the inability of entirely expliciting the rule, we all feel when it's good or not, even when it doesn't make any sense... :s


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## hadronic

For what is worth, Morfix has לא לו as a separate entry, "not his, not belonging to him". So it just is


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## origumi

It's a biblical idiom. E.g. Genesis 15:13, Jeremiah 5:19, Habakkuk 1:6, 2:6, Proverbs 26:17, 2 Chronicles 20:16, 20:17.


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## Drink

origumi said:


> It's a biblical idiom. E.g. Genesis 15:13, Jeremiah 5:19, Habakkuk 1:6, 2:6, Proverbs 26:17, 2 Chronicles 20:15, 20:17.



Ok, thanks! (Although Habakkuk 2:6 and both Chronicles ones are not really the same as what we were discussing)


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