# Colour Orange



## clara mente

I've been beating my head against the walls for a direct and simple translation for the word "orange" (color) and have yet to encounter anything satisfactory.
I am convinced that the Romans were familiar with the fruit since they are grown in parts of Spain as well as the Mediterranean Coast of Africa. Anyone have any insight here?


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## Anne345

In modern latin, orange is _aurantiacus a um_


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## Whodunit

Anne345 said:


> In modern latin, orange is _aurantiacus a um_


 
Correct, but - in case clara mente is interested - the fruit is called "*malum Medicum*"


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## Anne345

He/she asks the color ... 

For the fruit I know _malum aureum_ (classical) and _arancium_ (modern). 
And for the tree _aurea malus_ (classical) and _aurantium_ (modern).


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## se16teddy

clara mente said:


> I am convinced that the Romans were familiar with the fruit since they are grown in parts of Spain as well as the Mediterranean Coast of Africa.


According to Wikipedia, oranges were not introduced to Europe until the 11th century. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_(fruit)   http://www.abecitrus.com.br/english/historia_us.html


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## Anne345

"Bitter oranges originated in northeastern India and in the adjoining areas of China and Myanmar. During the first centuries CE, the orange began to spread beyond China, as the citron had done earlier, to Japan, India, the Near East, and to the rest of the classical world. In the 1st century CE, the Romans became interested in the fruit;" from http://www.innvista.com/health/foods/fruits/orange.htm


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## Outsider

> ...and the Arabs later spread it as far as Spain. But, except for Spain where both the orange and the Arab remained, the fall of the Roman Empire obliterated orange cultivation in Europe. The Arabs appear to be the first to mention them in their writings. The English word now used for the fruit was derived from the Sanskrit name they adopted. The earliest description of the bitter orange in Europe was by a 13th century author; and the sweet orange was not mentioned until 1471 in some archives from the Italian city of Savona.


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## Flaminius

Ahem, to quote the initial question:


> I've been beating my head against the walls for a direct and simple translation for the word "orange" (color) and have yet to encounter anything satisfactory.


So what, if any, was the Latin word for colour orange, anyone?


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## Whodunit

Flaminius said:


> Ahem, to quote the initial question:
> 
> So what, if any, was the Latin word for colour orange, anyone?


 
The question has already been answered, Flaminius. 



Anne345 said:


> In modern latin, orange is _aurantiacus a um_


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## Flaminius

I am aware of the contribution.  But any terms from the Roman era?  Or am I asking too much?


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## clara mente

Even if the fruit / tree of the orange were unknown to the Romans, wouldn't the concept of "orangeness" still exist, since there are many natural objects which were orange in color, e.g. orange clay, several varieties of plants and flowers, pumpkins/ squash etc?


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## Whodunit

Flaminius said:


> I am aware of the contribution. But any terms from the Roman era? Or am I asking too much?


 


clara mente said:


> Even if the fruit / tree of the orange were unknown to the Romans, wouldn't the concept of "orangeness" still exist, since there are many natural objects which were orange in color, e.g. orange clay, several varieties of plants and flowers, pumpkins/ squash etc?


 
I'm not sure I understand you both correctly. The word "aurantiacus" has already been mentioned and that's definitely the adjective the Romans used to describe things that are orange.


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## clara mente

Anne345 said:


> In modern latin, orange is _aurantiacus a um_


   As stated above, the modern Latin definition was cited. My question was regarding the Romans as in Classical times


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## Abu Rashid

> The Arabs appear to be the first to mention them in their writings. The English word now used for the fruit was derived from the Sanskrit name they adopted



I'm not entirely sure about the name for Orange in Arabic in the 11th. century, but the name today used is برتقال (burtaqaal) which is actually pronounced much like the name of the country right next to Spain (ie. Portugal). The name for the colour in Arabic is also much the same برتقالي (burtaqaali) meaning "of Orange". I've often wondered if this word came about because Oranges were grown largely in this region, or whether the Arabs gave this region it's name. Not really related to Latin, but may shed light on the relationship.


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## Outsider

Here's an earlier thread with some information on that.


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## Abu Rashid

Very informative thread, Outsider.

Gratia.


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## Whodunit

Just for the record: The color "orange" was not known as such in Ancient Rome. I have no clue when the word "aurantiacus" was first used, but it's definitely not only Modern Latin but may also be Medieval Latin or even older. I'll keep at it and ask my Latin teacher, if I get the chance.


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## clara mente

Whodunit said:


> Just for the record: The color "orange" was not known as such in Ancient Rome. I have no clue when the word "aurantiacus" was first used, but it's definitely not only Modern Latin but may also be Medieval Latin or even older. I'll keep at it and ask my Latin teacher, if I get the chance.


That seems to be the perplexing question here. The concept of orange surely must have existed in ancient Rome, since the color existed in their surroundings. The only explanation of which I can think is that they simply didn't care about it unlike other colors sic. black-ater, niger etc.


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## übermönch

clara mente said:


> That seems to be the perplexing question here. The concept of orange surely must have existed in ancient Rome, since the color existed in their surroundings. The only explanation of which I can think is that they simply didn't care about it unlike other colors sic.


Alas! Nobody seemed to care about the shade between yellow and red untill the very appearance of oranges in their next sorroundings - for else the word for the colour would not have to be drawn from the newly introduced fruit.


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## Whodunit

Why is the question so hard to answer? The answer is here:



> Orange derives from Sanskrit _nāraṅgaḥ_ "orange tree", with borrowings through Persian _nārang_, Arabic _nāranj_, Spanish _naranja_, Late Latin _arangia_, Italian _arancia_ or _arancio_, and Old French _orenge_, in chronological order. The first appearance in English dates from the 14th century. The name of the colour is derived from the fruit, first appearing in this sense in the 16th century. *Source*


 
The Romans were not able to name the color, because the name of the color is derived from the fruit, not vice versa. However, the fruit didn't appear before the 11th century in the world, and not until the 14 century in common usage in Europe. Merriam Webster reveals that the color _orange_ was not used in English until 1542. Therefore, it was impossible for the Romans to name the color; they simply didn't need a word for it. It was just _fulvus_ or _ravus_ or whatever.


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## Etruscanus

Anne345 said:


> In modern latin, orange is _aurantiacus a um_





Anne345 said:


> He/she asks the color ...
> 
> For the fruit I know _malum aureum_ (classical) and _arancium_ (modern).
> And for the tree _aurea malus_ (classical) and _aurantium_ (modern).



This is wonderful since I did not know the word for the color or the fruit.  This goes into my notebook!


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