# Etymology of Latin months (PIE form)



## dihydrogen monoxide

I'd like to know reconstructed PIE roots for Julian/Gregorian names of the months and if possible its cognates.
I hope this is not beyond the scope.


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## mgwls

Hi,
You can find all the roots here.


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## berndf

Our month names are all Latin. If you are looking for older origins of those name _as month names_ this wouldn't be possible because these names have nothing to do with how older civilisations called their months (if they had the concept of a month name).

If you are looking for the Latin meanings, September to December didn't have proper names, the words are simply derived from their respective month numbers (i.e. 7-10, March being the first month of the year), February is named after a feast, July and August after emperors (their names in the Republic were Quintilis, and Sextilis, 5th and 6th months) and the others after gods.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

I am looking for Latin names not with older names. Our months, universal months, to some extent.
My point was to reconstruct the names of the months to PIE roots and find similarities, but I've managed to find that out for myself.


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## berndf

I am a bit lost. All cultures which use the Latin calendar have either derived the Month names directly from Latin or replaced them with traditional names from their own culture which have no etymological relationship with the Latin names like OE used _æfterra ġēola_ for _January_ which means _after yule_ (_yule=midwinter_).

What do PIE roots help you there?


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## dihydrogen monoxide

I wanted Latin forms and their reconstructed PIE roots not Old Saxon or some other languages that have no Latin forms.


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## berndf

Something like: _September_ (which is identical in English and Latin) is derived from Latin _septem_ (_seven_) which is reconstructed in PIE as _*septm_?

What puzzles me is what does it help you to go beyond Latin to PIE roots, if the names in modern languages are derived from Latin. Could you give me an example where this would be useful?


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## dihydrogen monoxide

I can see September,October and so on...
I want to know the original meaning of the words before they got the meaning of months in Latin. That could be done through reconstruction. The puzzling ones are January,February,March..., since no one seems to bother about their etymologies. It finishes it came from Latin but they don't go beyond that point and finally I've found the link suggested above which goes beyond that point. So I think I've got answers there.


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## berndf

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> I am looking for Latin names not with older names. Our months, universal months, to some extent.
> My point was to reconstruct the names of the months to PIE roots *and find similarities*, but I've managed to find that out for myself.


 
I was just curious what you meant by "find similarities" and how PIE rather than just Latin roots like "January comes from the god Janus" are useful.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

To me etymology is if you go back to the proto-form ie. reconstruction and from that tell the original meaning what the speaker intended. See if we say it comes from god Janus, it is just our starting point but not the whole etymology. Indeed in some cases only starting point is possible because we don't know how to go from there. Let's say if a Latin word is taken from Greek and the Greek word is substratum then our starting point is sufficient. I think this requires another thread but I think several exist on this forum regarding this topic.
What I mean is it would be something like this:
January *?????? cognates:
February *?????? cognates:
and so on...


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## Kevin Beach

As I understand it the Roman months were named as follows:

* Januarius* from the God *Janus*

*Februarius* from the *Februa* festivals which were celebrated at the end of the Roman          year. 

*            Martius* from the God *Mars*

*            Aprilis* from the Etruscan God *Aprilis*

*            Maius* from the Goddess *Maia*

*            Junius* from the God *Juno*

*Julius* Named for *Julius Caesar*

*             Augustus* Named for *Augustus Caesar*

*            September* The 7th month - from *Septem*

*            October* The 8th month - from *Octo*

*            November* The 9th month - from *Novem*

*December* The 10th month - from *Decem*

The derivations are obvious. If there are issues of etymology then surely they relate not to the months' names, but to the divine names or other words from which they are derived.


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## berndf

Kevin Beach said:


> The derivations are obvious. If there are issues of etymology then surely they relate not to the months' names, but to the divine names or other words from which they are derived.


 
That was exactly what I found confusing about the way the question was put.

PS: As far as I know, _April_ is derived from an Estruscan godess (_Apru_), not a god. Probably originally from Greek _Aphrodite_. Would make sense as the month was devoted to Venus. The origin of _Maius_ I don't know. With the others I agree.


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## dihydrogen monoxide

Yes, Kevin Beach that is what I was talking about. But now I want etymology (PIE root,first meaning of Janus,Februa and so on...). That was my question, I think you guys are beginning to understand.


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## Kevin Beach

*Ianua -ae* is a Latin word for the outer door of a house.

*Ianus*, the deity, was regarded as the gatekeeper to the years. He was portrayed as having two faces, one watching the old year go out and the other watching the new year enter.

Now all you need to do is find the PIE root of *ianua* .......


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## avok

I guess d. monoxide wants to know the IPE equivalent of Latin "ianua".


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## Kevin Beach

avok said:


> I guess d. monoxide wants to know the IPE equivalent of Latin "ianua".


Maybe there wasn't one.

Maybe it was a neologism (or, to be consistent, a noverbum) formed  _post urbem conditam_


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## berndf

The origin of _Februum_ (_purificaion, _plural_ Februa_), source of _Februarius_ is unknown. I found "said to be a Sabine word" but nothing more.

If Aprilis is derived from Αφροδίτη then the origin would be Αφρος (foam of the sea, refering to her birth in the foaming sea). Αφρος seams also to be the origin of the word Africa. I don't know the PIE origin of Αφρος. If these two are only incidentally spelled identically in Greek or if they are the same word I don't know.


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## Flaminius

Aphrodite could be of Semitic origin.


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