# Anti-Christian Political Correctness



## screwPC

Lately, Christophobia has been in the air in December rather than the joy of Christmas. Also, lest us forget the new terminology the anti-Christians have dished out to replace BC and AD in our Gregorian calendar. 

Christmas is always being referred to as "holiday" in American media, and it has become very irritating and even offensive. Don't be surprised to hear "Holiday tree", "holiday lights", "holiday wreaths", etc. But oh no, you'd never come across a "Holiday candleabra" (Menorah) or anything of that sort for non-Christian celebrations. It's Christophobia that's what it is. Does anyone agree that it's going to far when it comes to censoring the word "Christmas" as if it were an obscenity? Also, the terms BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) are now beginning to surface as permanent replacements for the original and traditional AD and BC terms used. Not only is this unneccesary and absurd, but completely disrespectful in the sense that their "new" dating system still is based on the birth of Christ, yet they only mask that fact. In otherwords, they are too lazy and selfish to perhaps CREATE their own dating system. I hope someone out there agrees with my views and thinks Christophobia is taking over the country.


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## rob.returns

It all comes down to "BUSINESS" buddy. Either they pass a law or we just have to live with that.


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## GenJen54

Dear ScrewPC, 

Welcome to the Forums!  Wow, did you start out on an interesting note.  

First and foremost, I'm really amazed at the almost flame-like attitude conveyed in your post, as if you were are on the defense before someone here has even offended you. 

If you haven't had the opportunity to lurk around some of our threads, I would strongly encourage you to do so. If you do, you will find that we are a global community here, made up of people from numerous countries, who speak numerous and multiple languages and profess different faiths and/or views on religion. 

The one thing we all share is a love of language, culture, education and a *mutual respect *for one another's cultural differences, including our faiths.

As for the "secularization" of Christmas, I would concede that it has gone "over the top" a bit, but at the same time, not everyone shares that view, and are their opinions not as worthy of being respected as yours?


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## screwPC

Didn't mean to appear angry, but this has been a beef of mine for some time now. Yes, I respect others' opinions, but I feel I have a personal duty to vent out regarding this assault on Christianity. Although I am not a devoted Christian, and haven't gone to church for years, I feel this assault hits on a personal note and is downright offensive to the majority Christians in this nation.


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## rob.returns

HI. SOrry ScrePc if I had not welcome you. Your topic is great.

I can see where you are from here. But my point is that, Its been present for years already. Its certainly obvious in the month of December.

Imagine, How did Santa Clause, the elves, Rudolf and reindeers came to be. When in the first place they are not in the Bible. And in Addition to this information, I would like to tell you that Santa Clause is not a Saint anymore. The vatican has discanonized him already, way back then. You can try googling to verify on this information. And up until now he is here. The answer is business. 

Before the the rain, we were already wet.

thanks!


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## modgirl

screwPC said:
			
		

> Also, the terms BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) are now beginning to surface as permanent replacements for the original and traditional AD and BC terms used.


 
Those are Christian terms. It may be news to you, but not all people in the world are Chrisitian.  That isn't politically correct; it's fact.


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## modgirl

If you prefer another date for the Christian date of 27 August 2005, it's also 22 Av 5765 for Jews or 22.7.1426 for Islamics.

However, if people tried to use those dates in business and everyday life, most would not understand.  Hence, we are tied to the Christian terms.  This is the year 2005 of the Common Era.  For Christians, it is "Before Christ."  If it is offensive to you that others do not accept your Savior, imagine what it's like for those to have to use religious terms that don't apply to them at all.


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## cuchuflete

screwPC said:
			
		

> Not only is this unneccesary and absurd, but completely *disrespectful* in the sense that their "new" dating system still is based on the birth of Christ, yet *they* only mask that fact. In otherwords, they are too lazy and selfish to perhaps CREATE their own dating system. I hope someone out there agrees with my views and thinks Christophobia is taking over the country.



Welcome to the forums ScrewPC,

You have described yourself as a Canadian, so I am assuming, barring some clarification from you, that this tempest in a teapot is a Canadian thing.

You haven't demonstrated any disrespect in your rant, nor have you defined 'they'.   It's a little difficult to engage with such a vague polemic.  If the majority of your countrymen are at least nominal christians, why don't you ponder how deep their faith is.  If they were all as engaged and enraged as you are, it's unlikey these linguistic changes would be taking place.  

It may feel good to be self-righteous, but there is a danger.  If most people accept the changes you decry, perhaps their culture has evolved, not necessarily for the better by your lights or mine, but the way in which they celebrate has moved to reflect their current culture.  If you condemn their treatment of the 'holiday' and the naming conventions for time periods, you may be perceived as trying to declare that yours are better, rather than simply different.

Happy northern hemisphere warm summer day,

Cuchuflete


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## panjandrum

I would like to make two small observations - and bear in mind recent history in my part of the world.

It seems to me that there is an interesting discontinuity between posts #1 and #4.
It seems to me that this discontinuity lies at the heart of all so-called religious conflict.


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## lsp

screwPC said:
			
		

> Lately, Christophobia has been in the air in December rather than the joy of Christmas. Also, lest us forget the new terminology the anti-Christians have dished out to replace BC and AD in our Gregorian calendar.
> 
> Christmas is always being referred to as "holiday" in American media, and it has become very irritating and even offensive. Don't be surprised to hear "Holiday tree", "holiday lights", "holiday wreaths", etc. But oh no, you'd never come across a "Holiday candleabra" (Menorah) or anything of that sort for non-Christian celebrations. It's Christophobia that's what it is. Does anyone agree that it's going to far when it comes to censoring the word "Christmas" as if it were an obscenity? Also, the terms BCE (Before Common Era) and CE (Common Era) are now beginning to surface as permanent replacements for the original and traditional AD and BC terms used. Not only is this unneccesary and absurd, but completely disrespectful in the sense that *their* "new" dating system still is based on the birth of Christ, yet *they* only mask that fact. In otherwords, *they* are too lazy and selfish to perhaps CREATE *their* own dating system. I hope someone out there agrees with my views and thinks Christophobia is taking over the country.


Who are they?

To me, "they" are people with commerical interests in creating Holiday as an inclusive term for people who celebrate a season of joy and gift-giving that swept a country, no - a planet, of individuals who had never before had a reason to spend so much money in December because they weren't Christians. Some of those geniuses marketing "Holiday" I bet my last dollar were/are Christians.

There _are_ other calendars in use in the world BTW. And, at least in the USA, regularizing what applies to a multi-ethnic, multi-religion filled world should not be any more paranoia-inducing than the founders'  original idea of separating church and state which I think some Christians today are hell-bent on reversing.


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## lsp

Another thought occured to me, a sort of reversal of screwpc's view of the world, and perhaps someone who feels closer to his/her position can give me a new outlook on it. We are approaching the Jewish holidays. Some people will need 2 days off for Rosh HaShannah and 1 1/2 days for Yom Kippur. They are not "official" paid holidays and should be deducted from vacation time as a result. But the complaint was raised in my office that Christians do not have to use personal time to observe their most religious holidays of Christmas and Easter (my business is open 7 days, so the fact that one is always a Sunday doesn't cover it). We are a completely non-religious organization. This scenario is true for the majority of American businesses. I don't hear any complaining about that being offensive.


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## timpeac

I think it is worth pointing out that "holiday" comes from "holy day" and thus would seem adequately religiously marked to my mind. In a way therefore it is discriminatory not to refer to menorah as "holiday" candelabra. I think that refering to what I would call the "christmas period" has a long tradition in the US of being "the holidays", coming from marking them out as particularly "holy" days.


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## Everness

screwPC said:
			
		

> In otherwords, they are too lazy and selfish to perhaps CREATE their own dating system. I hope someone out there agrees with my views and thinks Christophobia is taking over the country.



Lazy? This is lazy: Xmas. 

I think the words holiday  and especially holiday season  attempt to be more inclusive terms for Christmas and New Year that will also keep lawsuits or discrimination complaints at a safe distance. 

However, I think I can point out an upside of the movement that screwPC criticizes. Hopefully this movement gets to our malls during the holiday season (at least in the States) and we stop being tortured by this infinite stream of Christmas carols!

If I'd worked at a mall, and were exposed to this "music" 8 hours a day, I would certainly commit suicide or kill a difficult customer.... 

What about mixing in some good and lively Jewish tunes for a change!


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## screwPC

modgirl said:
			
		

> Those are Christian terms. It may be news to you, but not all people in the world are Chrisitian. That isn't politically correct; it's fact.


 
If you follow this logic, then it would be neccesary also to change the days of the week; Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, etc. because "not all of the people in the world are Roman/Nordic". The names of the days of the week as well as the months of the year are named after Nordic and Roman gods, and we don't see anyone complaining about them. This is because we've become so used to them and they've completely lost their religious significance, as is with the BC and AD terms, people just want them changed because of Christophobia. I agree that not everyone in the world are Christian, but neither is the entire world Roman or Nordic.


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## lsp

screwPC said:
			
		

> ... Christophobia...


You keep saying that. Can you define that? 

Personally I only fear fanatics of any type who believe their dogma should be part of what governs the lives of people who don't share their beliefs, regardless of who is in the majority at the time.


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## modgirl

screwPC said:
			
		

> This is because we've become so used to them and they've completely lost their religious significance, as is with the BC and AD terms, people just want them changed because of Christophobia.


 
Have people told you this?  That they have a fear of Jesus Christ and so they choose the terms CE and BCE?  I've never heard of this.


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## screwPC

lsp said:
			
		

> We are a completely non-religious organization. This scenario is true for the majority of American businesses. I don't hear any complaining about that being offensive.


 
Untrue. Richard Zanulin in 1998 attempted to persuade the Supreme Court to reverse the fact that Christmas Day (Dec. 25) is a Federal holiday in the United States. He lost because the court ruled that Christmas has a secular side as much as a religious aspect to it's celebration. Other religious holidays besides Easter and Christmas do NOT have secular aspects, not to mention 95% of Americans are Christian, therefore it is acceptable that Christmas Day be a federal holiday over minority holidays (If it wasn't, we'd just have 95% of employees taking vacation anyway). Plus, why would anyone complain about having an extra holiday off work?


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## screwPC

modgirl said:
			
		

> Have people told you this? That they have a fear of Jesus Christ and so they choose the terms CE and BCE? I've never heard of this.


 
Check Wikipedia or the dictionary, the term 'Christophobia' is defined as a HATRED of Christians, not only a fear. I could've used another term such as 'anti-Christian values', but Christophobia is a simpler used term. I meant they have a selective hate against Christianity because there seems to be no attack against the religious affiliation with the days of the week, only the Gregorian calendar, which is Christian.


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## lsp

screwPC said:
			
		

> Untrue. Richard Zanulin in 1998 attempted to persuade the Supreme Court to reverse the fact that Christmas Day (Dec. 25) is a Federal holiday in the United States. He lost because the court ruled that Christmas has a secular side as much as a religious aspect to its celebration. Other religious holidays besides Easter and Christmas do NOT have secular aspects, not to mention 95% of Americans are Christian, therefore it is acceptable that Christmas Day be a federal holiday over minority holidays. Plus, why would anyone complain about having an extra holiday off work?


So if you are agreeing that Christmas has a secular side than what's so terrible with it having a secular name... HOLIDAY? 

It's TPTB, i.e., the business owners  object to paying out more vacation days.

Americans are 95% Christian and you're still feeling put down... imagine how the minorities feel. Well, never mind. Stick around, the supreme court will soon be making your life easier, heaven help us.


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## cuchuflete

This grows tiresome.  You have now "defined"  your "they" as a singe individual bringing a legal case to a court.   





			
				screwPC said:
			
		

> Untrue. Richard Zanulin in 1998 attempted to persuade the Supreme Court to reverse the fact that Christmas Day (Dec. 25) is a Federal holiday in the United States. He lost because the court ruled that Christmas has a secular side as much as a religious aspect to it's celebration.  *And, as noted above, it absolutely does have this secular aspect.  *Other religious holidays besides Easter and Christmas do NOT have secular aspects *Untrue...Halloween was originally a religious event, and has a dominant secular side, as does Hanukah *, not to mention 95% of Americans are Christian *That's a thoroughly ridiculous assertion.  Many Americans are totally indifferent to any and all religions.  This is a fine little example of fibbing with invented statistics. *, therefore it is acceptable that Christmas Day be a federal holiday over minority holidays. Plus, why would anyone complain about having an extra holiday off work?



I'm still waiting to learn about "they" and see some genuine evidence of the so-called cristophobia committed against the supposed 95% who have so warmly embraced the commercialization of what was once a somewhat religious event.

Will I see that evidence before I next espy Elvis?


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## modgirl

screwPC said:
			
		

> He lost because the court ruled that Christmas has a secular side as much as a religious aspect to *its *celebration.


 
Ah, and how did that come about?!  Oddly enough, of my friends who are atheist, all of them celebrate Christmas as a huge holiday!   Personally, I think it was just peer pressure and the mass consumerism of it all that influenced them.  And that's sad.  Christmas is a Christian holiday for a very specific event.  And it's turned into a huge _consumer debt_ holiday instead.  I wonder if that's the way the subject of the holiday really would want it.

I have some friends who are deeply religious Christians -- and they do celebrate Christmas, but in a very different way from most people.  They concentrate on the religious aspect of the holiday.  I don't share their beliefs, but I have enormous respect and admiration for them.


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## screwPC

lsp said:
			
		

> So if you are agreeing that Christmas has a secular side than what's so terrible with it having a secular name... HOLIDAY?
> 
> It's TPTB, i.e., the business owners object to paying out more vacation days.
> 
> Americans are 95% Christian and you're still feeling put down... imagine how the minorities feel. Well, never mind. Stick around, the supreme court will soon be making your life easier, heaven help us.


 
Just because Christianity is the majority, doesn't mean they get treated fairly. In most public schools Christmas decor/music is banned while minority celebrations are focused apon. That's unfair, whether Christianity is the majority or not. Also, about changing the name of Christmas to 'holiday', it just has no logic. Thanksgiving is based on religion, but would people call it 'holiday'? No, that's ridiculous. Same goes for St. Patrick's Day and St. Valentine's Day.


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## modgirl

lsp said:
			
		

> So if you are agreeing that Christmas has a secular side than what's so terrible with it having a secular name... HOLIDAY?


 
So clever!  I wish I had thought of that.  Really, it only makes sense.


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## lsp

screwPC said:
			
		

> Just because Christianity is the majority, doesn't mean they get treated fairly. In most public schools Christmas decor/music is banned while minority celebrations are focused apon. That's unfair, whether Christianity is the majority or not. Also, about changing the name of Christmas to 'holiday', it just has no logic. Thanksgiving is based on religion, but would people call it 'holiday'? No, that's ridiculous. Same goes for St. Patrick's Day and St. Valentine's Day.


Thanksgiving is "based on religion"? 

Poor majority... those mean ol' minorities just make their lives so difficult with their opportunities and their power and their money and their voting blocs and their ....

I am not aware of, and do not believe there is a single place where Christmas anything is "banned" while minority celebrations are "focused upon" and I am afraid I can not believe it just because you say so, I would need proof. 

I can't partake in a debate of this sort.


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## modgirl

screwPC said:
			
		

> the term 'Christophobia' is defined as a HATRED of Christians, not only a fear.


 
Hmm, I don't see any concentration camps around. 
 


Unfortunately, I really think you're overreacting. I know many people who are not Christian and don't share those beliefs, but an actual _hatred_ of Christians or Christianity? _Hated_ is an extremely strong emotion.

Could you give some examples of the _hatred_ that you see? Surely, people using non-Christian terms for dates is not hatred.


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## screwPC

lsp said:
			
		

> I am not aware of, and do not believe there is a single place where Christmas anything is "banned" while minority celebrations are "focused upon" and I am afraid I can not believe it just because you say so, I would need proof.
> 
> I can't partake in a debate of this sort.


 

I tried again and again to post a quote from a certain site, but kept getting the damned 'URL in your post' message, therefore I will just say this: go to Google and search for VDARE War Against Christmas 2003, and then once there go to page 10, where you'll see an article about banning Christmas but enforcing Hanukkah.


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## panjandrum

I know this is really a silly question, but I will ask it anyway.
ScrewPC:
As you have already said, you have no particular interest in Christianity.
Do you understand, and can you explain, why you feel such personal fervour in apparent defence of an apparent attack on Christianity?


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## lsp

screwPC said:
			
		

> I tried again and again to post a quote from a certain site, but kept getting the damned 'URL in your post' message, therefore I will just say this: go to Google and search for VDARE War Against Christmas 2003, and then once there go to page 10, where you'll see an article about banning Christmas but enforcing Hanukkah.


You should read the rules here, first of all. You'd know you can't post links before you have 30 posts.

That sole, obscure non-objective resource mentions about 3 instances which I take neither as proof that they happened nor (if they did ) proof that they were motivated by hatred of Christians. You said "most public schools" and I maintain that is ridiculous.

That was my last gesture, I now leave you to your paranoia and your majority.


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## screwPC

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I know this is really a silly question, but I will ask it anyway.
> ScrewPC:
> As you have already said, you have no particular interest in Christianity.
> Do you understand, and can you explain, why you feel such personal fervour in apparent defence of an apparent attack on Christianity?


 
I was a Christian from birth until about age 15, and my entire family (about 150 people including 1st cousins, etc) are religious Christians. I doubt the Christian faith itself, yet still defend it because my family is Christian and I appreciate Christian values. I'm Agnostic, so if I were ever to become slightly spiritual or religious, it would be with the Christian faith.


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## modgirl

Screw: Do you think that a minority speaks for the entire non-Christian world? I'm positive that you can find hate groups against, well, everyone! There are many white supremacists still in the world, unfortunately. Antisemitism (sic) and hatred against Islamics and many others is still around. My bet is that you'll find more actual HATRED against groups other than Christian.

However, I fail to see any world-wide movements that profuse to hate Christians and Christianity. Are there organized movements, like white supremacists and so forth, that profess to hate Christians?


Btw, isn't a huge tenet of Christianity -- tolerance? If so, then do you get to pick and choose which subjects that you'll apply your tolerance?


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## Rach404

Wow....is this supposedly only happening in Canada?
I'm not talking for all British people when I say this, but some people here get annoyed when things aren't said so as to "not offend the minorities". But even so, it's not like Christianity is going to die, or is anywhere near doing so....no one is "attacking" Christianity or going out of their way to diminish it or whatever...my family is Christian, and they don't feel that their religion is being dimished at all....they do it their way, other people do it their's....I'm not particularly into Christianity, and if you're not I don't know why you're getting so heated about this....Most people I know respect all religions....it's only the extremists who want rid of certain religions, and fortunately they do not count for the majority of people in this world...


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## GenJen54

> _*not to mention 95% of Americans are Christian*_, therefore it is acceptable that Christmas Day be a federal holiday over minority holidays (If it wasn't, we'd just have 95% of employees taking vacation anyway).



First of all, ScrewPC, your stats are incorrect. According to the US Census (2000), only 79.8% of Americans consider themselves as "Christian." Of these, approximately 25% are Catholic, the rest follow some form of Protestantism.

While I agree that the "secularization" of America (and I am assuming Canada) has caused Christians to feel they have been unjustly disenfranchised, I ask you to look at the examples _throughout history_ (and there are many) where other peoples and ethnicities have been all but decimated in the name of "Christianity." 

The "Holiday" season is a time when people of many faiths can rejoice not only in their own beliefs, but experience and share with one another a greater sense of community at the end of the year. 

Christmas, as the western world knows it, is on December 25. But did you know that some religious scholars and historians believe, and have substantial proof, that Christ's actual date of birth was January 6? In fact, the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates this date instead.* December 25 is actually the winter solsitce.

As for your idea that Thanksgiving was/is a "traditional" religious holiday, I beg to differ on that as well. While it is true that the original intention of the feast was that of a "feast of thanks" in celebration of the Pilgrims' success in colonization, it was as much a feast of sharing their thanks with the Wampanoag Indians as it was a "thanks to God." 

Many other posters here have hit upon a very valid point, that being that the "secularization" of Christmas has more to do with the commercialization of Christmas than it does anything else, including religious persecution. 

With regard to Christphobia, do you not think it possible that one reason certain people (non-Christians and secularists) are "Christ-phobic" is because they are continually berated and told - by Christians - that their 
faiths and/or beliefs are wrong? 

I respect and admire many people of many different faiths, and would fight greatly to ensure that everyone has an opportunity to express any relgious and/or spiritual belief they so choose. Where I draw the line, however, is when people tell me they believe I am wrong, simply because I choose - for myself - to believe something that 80% of the population might not agree with. Is that not persecution, too?

*_Edit_: One source I have says January 6, another January 7 as the date the EOC celebrates Christmas. It is based on the Gregorian Calendar.


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## panjandrum

ScrewPC:
I really think that before you pursue this campaign further it would be wise for you to investigate the Christian faith more fully and more widely. You might perhaps apply some of the eagerness and enthusiasm you have shown in your investigation of this particular peripheral movement.


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## modgirl

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> With regard to Christphobia, do you not think it possible that one reason certain people (non-Christians and secularists) are "Christ-phobic" is because they are continually berated and told - by Christians - that their faiths and/or beliefs are wrong?


 
GenJen, you possess an empathy which is highly admirable.  You are very insightful and wise, and this forum is very blessed, indeed, to receive your presence.  Thank you.  Merci.  Gracias.  Spasibo.  Dank u.


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## timpeac

I did post earlier, but no one picked up on it - so maybe you all disagree or something, so I'll try once more.

The original post to this thread complained of an attack on Christianity in particular quoting the use of the word "holiday" instead of Christmas and the suggestion of getting rid of AD and BC.

Now in the UK I see no evidence that we are losing the terms AD and BC.

As for "holiday" _this is a religious reference_.

holiday  
O.E. haligdæg, from halig "holy" + dæg "day;" 

What's the problem?


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## screwPC

timpeac said:
			
		

> I did post earlier, but no one picked up on it - so maybe you all disagree or something, so I'll try once more.
> 
> The original post to this thread complained of an attack on Christianity in particular quoting the use of the word "holiday" instead of Christmas and the suggestion of getting rid of AD and BC.
> 
> Now in the UK I see no evidence that we are losing the terms AD and BC.
> 
> As for "holiday" _this is a religious reference_.
> 
> holiday
> O.E. haligdæg, from halig "holy" + dæg "day;"
> 
> What's the problem?


 

First of all, replacing Christmas with 'holiday' is a problem because none of the other Federal holidays are replaced with that word, therefore we can assume Christmas is removed only because it is Christian-affiliated. Also, I can assume the AD and BC terms are still widely in use in the United Kingdom because they still (fortunately) haven't indulged in this horrid and pointless political correctness era. Soon I might have to move there!


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## Everness

There's a Latino pastor in Boston who, according to the Boston Globe, has written a master plan to ''reclaim the state of Massachusetts for Jesus Christ'' and penetrate a culture he feels is being lost to promiscuity, activist judges, and the legalization of same-sex marriage. He reportedly is organizing Protestant ministers and Christian activists around the state and encouraging them to bring modern marketing techniques to the church.

Pastor Miranda wrote a 17-page treatise that appeals to evangelical leaders to work together to ''proceed systematically to penetrate and reconquer'' institutions of culture, business, and politics in a state that he said has become ''saturated with a godless, secular outlook.''

His approach is as interesting as controversial: ''I called together these key leaders to talk about how could we put together an initiative to sell our product better, to be more relevant, and to communicate the message of the gospel in ways that would be a lot more digestible to the general public.'' 

Pastor Miranda argues that evangelical leaders must think of the church as a corporation. ''Any institution that is going to be effective needs to be more communicative about the product it's trying to sell and find its market.'' His rationale? ''Right now the market is a 21st century, secularly oriented community that is skeptical of what kind of practical services the church can offer.'' 

Why do I bring up Pastor Miranda's statements? ScrewPC picked what could be portrayed as more superficial (non-essential) issues (e.g. dropping the word Christmas for holiday). What Miranda and many other Christians (it's not just a particular church or denomination) see is a culture permeated by a secular and godless outlook that needs to be reconquered.   

Maybe countries shouldn't be called Christian or adopt Christianity as their official religion (perdón Constantino). But that doesn't mean that a particular country's culture and values aren't rooted in, for instance, the Bible or Christian values. 

Bottom line? Nothing is 100% secular or 100% religious. Therefore, it's possible to reclaim religious values without infringing upon the rights of those who aren't religious or reclaiming secular values without infringing upon the rights of those who are religious.


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## timpeac

screwPC said:
			
		

> First of all, replacing Christmas with 'holiday' is a problem because none of the other Federal holidays are replaced with that word, therefore we can assume Christmas is removed only because it is Christian-affiliated. Also, I can assume the AD and BC terms are still widely in use in the United Kingdom because they still (fortunately) haven't indulged in this horrid and pointless political correctness era. Soon I might have to move there!


 
But I think you are putting the cart before the horse. I think that the Christmas period has always been known by some religious people as "the holidays" meaning quite literally "the holy days" and so of course we wouldn't expect other public holidays to have that name. So the name has not been replaced at all.

I really can't see us changing AD and BC here any time soon, so maybe you'd better get your visa application in!


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## panjandrum

Another little point:
Please note my suggested change to GenJen's very strong point:


			
				GenJen54 said:
			
		

> With regard to Christphobia, do you not think it possible that one reason certain people (non-Christians and secularists) are "Christ-phobic" is because they are continually berated and told - by *people who claim to be* *Christians or to be speaking on behalf of* Christians - that their faiths and/or beliefs are wrong?


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## OlivierG

To return to the original topic:


			
				screwPC said:
			
		

> <...> Christmas is always being referred to as "holiday" in American media, and it has become very irritating and even offensive.


Please search for the word "Christmas" on Google News. You'll get  13,300 answers, most of them being found in "American media". 12,600 of these answers don't include the word "holiday". 

So don't worry, "Christmas" is not consistently referred to as "holiday" yet.


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## cuchuflete

screwPC said:
			
		

> First of all, replacing Christmas with 'holiday' is a problem because none of the other Federal holidays are replaced with that word, therefore we can assume Christmas is removed only because it is Christian-affiliated. Also, I can assume the AD and BC terms are still widely in use in the United Kingdom because they still (fortunately) haven't indulged in this horrid and pointless political correctness era. Soon I might have to move there!



Hello ScrewPC,

I can relieve at least a little of your knickers-in-a-twist difficulties. The following comes from a web site maintained by the Federal government of the U.S.



> *2004 Federal Holidays*
> 
> Federal law (5 U.S.C. 6103) establishes the following *public holidays* for Federal employees.  Please note that most Federal employees work on a Monday through Friday schedule.  For these employees, when a holiday falls on a nonworkday -- Saturday or Sunday -- the holiday usually is observed on Monday (if the holiday falls on Sunday) or Friday (if the holiday falls on Saturday).
> 
> 
> *Thursday, January 1*
> 
> *New Year's Day *
> 
> *Monday, January 19*
> 
> *Birthday of Martin Luther King, Jr.*
> 
> *Monday, February 16 **
> 
> *Washington's Birthday*
> 
> *Monday, May 31*
> 
> *Memorial Day*
> 
> *Monday, July 5 ***
> 
> *Independence Day*
> 
> *Monday, September 6*
> 
> *Labor Day*
> 
> *Monday, October 11*
> 
> *Columbus Day*
> 
> *Thursday, November 11*
> 
> *Veterans Day*
> 
> *Thursday, November 25*
> 
> *Thanksgiving Day*
> 
> *Friday, December 24 ****
> 
> *Christmas Day*
> 
> *Friday, December 31 *****
> 
> *New Year's Day 2005*
> 
> _* This holiday is designated as "Washington's Birthday" in section 6103(a) of title 5 of the United States Code, which is the law that specifies holidays for Federal employees. Though other institutions such as state and local governments and private businesses may use other names, *it is our policy to always refer to holidays by the names designated in the law*._



Please note that Christmas is called Christmas Day, and all of the days listed are referred to as holidays.  No dayphobia visible.  As far as I can tell, only a Christian holiday (holy day) is among those listed which has a strong religious association.

cheers,
Cuchuflete


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## remosfan

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Christmas, as the western world knows it, is on December 25. But did you know that some religious scholars and historians believe, and have substantial proof, that Christ's actual date of birth was January 6? In fact, the Eastern Orthodox Church celebrates this date instead.* December 25 is actually the winter solsitce.



This has nothing to do with the topic at large but I just wanted to point out that, if I remember correctly, those Eastern Orthodox Churches that do celebrate Christmas on a different date actually do celebrate on December 25th according to the Julian calendar but it works out to January something in the Gregorian calendar. Those churches that do celebrate it on the Gregorian 25th, like mine, actually go by a third calendar which is the most exact of the three (in terms of how long it takes a year to be), but I think a difference will only show up in a couple millenia or so. But the calendar issue can get very heated among Orthodox, so be forewarend 

About the Jan 6 or 7, again if I remember right, one of these is the date used by the Armenian Orthodox Church, which is not an Eastern Orthodox Church, although I believe it is considered one of the Oriental Orthodox Churches (you've got to love the terminology here ). I'm not sure how this all relates to the "original date" (I've read different accounts) though.


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## GenJen54

Hi ScrewPC, 

I revisited your first post as I felt a need to clarify and reply to some of the specific assertions you made.



> Christmas is always being referred to as "holiday" in American media, and it has become very irritating and even offensive.



I don't understand your specific beef here?!  Christmas _is_ a holiday - or as timpeac so rightly put it - holy-day. It is referred to as the "Christmas holiday." The entire season which encompasses Thanksgiving, Chanukuh, Kwanza, Christmas and New Year's is referred to "the Holiday Season." How is this a problem since there is more than one holiday included here? "Christmas Season," and more significantly (*coughs*) "Christmas shopping," are still broadly used.

Easter is also referred to as "a holiday," as in "Easter holiday." There is also "Easter weekend." Is that equally as offensive?



> Don't be surprised to hear "Holiday tree", "holiday lights", "holiday wreaths", etc.


As for "holiday lights," people put up lights for a variety of holidays, Christmas among them. I don't see how something that is broadly associated with the "holidays" in general can be considered offensive.

I've not heard of "Holiday tree" or "Holiday wreaths." I think they are always "Christmas Trees" (with few exceptions - see below). As for wreaths, I don't know I've ever heard it called a "Christmas" wreath, it's just a wreath. I put one up for spring, fall, other times of year just as a decorative item. It bears no religious significance, nor do I know if it ever has. (Note to self: research religious significance of hanging wreaths.)

As Everness pointed out in an earlier post, if anything, we are all besieged by endless loops of "Christmas Carols," "Christmas decorations," and "Christmas shopping" offers beginning as early as mid-September. 



> But oh no, you'd never come across a "Holiday candleabra" (Menorah) or anything of that sort for non-Christian celebrations.


No - but I've come across "Chanukuh Bush," (or Chanukuh Shrub) as it is dubbed by friends who celebrate BOTH faiths. Rather than raising their children under the dogma of a single faith, they want to educate them on the history and significance of both. Quite englightened, if you ask me.

_*Edit: *Thank you Remosfan, for your input regarding the Eastern Orthodox Church. I have EO friends, and their church celebrates "both"(?) days. _


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## screwPC

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Hello ScrewPC,
> 
> I can relieve at least a little of your knickers-in-a-twist difficulties. The following comes from a web site maintained by the Federal government of the U.S.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that Christmas is called Christmas Day, and all of the days listed are referred to as holidays. No dayphobia visible. As far as I can tell, only a Christian holiday (holy day) is among those listed which has a strong religious association.
> 
> cheers,
> Cuchuflete


 
The American Education system is even worse than the media, at "The University of Tennessee" School Calendar site, they refer to all holidays by name except Good Friday (which they name 'Spring holiday'), and Christmas Day (which they name 'December 25th').

From The site:


•​The *New Year’s Day *holiday will be observed *Friday, December 31, 2004.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Martin Luther King, Jr. Day *holiday will be observed *Monday, January 17, 2005.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Spring *holiday will be observed *Friday, March 25, 2005.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Memorial Day *holiday will be observed *Monday, May 30, 2005.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Independence Day *holiday will be observed *Monday, July 4, 2005.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Labor Day *holiday will be observed *Monday, September 5, 2005.*

*
*​*
*



•​The *Thanksgiving Day *holiday will be observed

​




*Thursday, November 24, 2005 – Holiday.​*

*
*​*
*



Friday, November 25, 2005 – Administrative Closing.

​



•​The *December 25 *holiday will be observed

​




*Monday, December 26, 2005 – Holiday observed​*​.


Tuesday, December 27, 2005 – Administrative Closing.

Wednesday, December 28, 2005 – Administrative Closing.

Thursday, December 29, 2005 – Administrative Closing.

Friday, December 30, 2005 – Administrative Closing.
​


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## cuchuflete

screwPC said:
			
		

> The American Education system is even worse than the media, at "The University of Tennessee" School Calendar site, they refer to all holidays by name except Good Friday (which they name 'Spring holiday'), and Christmas Day (which they name 'December 25th').



Very thin gruel, Matey!

First, you have as yet offered no proof of the supposed crimes of the media.
Second, a single citation from a single university calendar *"prooves"* as much about The American Education system _sic_ as your phobias prove about all Canadians.  

I just debunked your assertions about government naming conventions for Christmas in particular, and holidays in general, and this is the best reply you can muster.   

So far you have told us, inaccurately, that Christmas isn't called Christmas.  It is called Christmas.   Next you say that 95% of Americans are Christians, which is also untrue.  You seem to feel beseiged by those who would attack your thinly held religious convictions through an evolution of commercial naming conventions, which express nothing but the commercialization of culture in general.

Try going to a Christmas service at the church of your choice.  I have little doubt that you will find the religious celebration properly labelled in a religious setting.   Next go to a commercial establishment, such as a retail store.  You will likely see words like 'holiday' all over the place.

Could all this be as simple as using terms appropriate to their respective contexts?


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## modgirl

screwPC said:
			
		

> they refer to all holidays by name except Good Friday (which they name 'Spring holiday')


 
Interesting that Good Friday is considered an official holiday at all!  When I was studying at university (sorry, but I prefer the British mode), Good Friday was not acknowledged or observed at all by university officials.  Even in the US, there is still mail delivery and except perhaps for some very religious businesses, I do believe that vast majority of businesses are still open.


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## lsp

I checked back to see if the debate was on mature ground yet. Not so much. 





			
				screwpc said:
			
		

> The American Education system is even worse than the media, at "The University of Tennessee" School Calendar site, they refer to all holidays by name except Good Friday (which they name 'Spring holiday'), and Christmas Day (which they name 'December 25th').
> 
> From The site...


 Again, economics. Calling a holiday like Good Friday "Spring Holiday" averts the ultimate (real) discrimination accusation from (real) minorities who celebrate days not included in vacation schedules. Thus they don't have to be added to the Holiday calendar as a capitulation for unjust (real) favoritism to Christians.

Since when is The University of Tennessee *a* public school, much less in any way relevant to your sweeping and unproven claim of "most public schools."

BTW: "From The site" is not actually providing a reference source, and please don't put so many spaces in between lines in your posts. It takes up more than one entire browser window.


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## Everness

screwPC said:
			
		

> The American Education system is even worse than the media, at "The University of Tennessee" School Calendar site, they refer to all holidays by name except Good Friday (which they name 'Spring holiday'), and Christmas Day (which they name 'December 25th').



Hi APPLEfan, 

You might have already realized that this is a forum of opinionated individuals, who love to debate, and, if not properly packaged, they take no sh*t. 

My impression is that your argumentation is running out of steam. This last post smells of desperation. As I stated above, in societies like ours (Canada and the US) no one can claim that our cultures are purely religious or purely secular. That's why you have all the right to bitch about and lash out at what you believe is a Christophobic movement. I think it's possible to reclaim certain values that are deeply rooted in our Judeo-Christian tradition and still respect pluralism. The fact that you reclaim those values doesn't mean that you and pastor Miranda will get them back. For instance, to outlaw same sex marriages by amending the US constitution. As the aging group that never stops touring would say, "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes well you just might find." 

What some people will try to do, even in this sanctum of wisdom, is to cleverly depict your attempts as bigotry, religious extremism, etc. etc.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Everness*
> "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes well you just might find."



Ah, yes.  Those aged rockers who "gather no moss."

Looks, Everness, like you forgot a very significant part of these lyrics.  They are as follows:

"You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you might just find, *you get what you need.*"

I'm hopeful our ScrewPC friend will have found what he/she needed by posting here.


----------



## Everness

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Ah, yes.  Those aged rockers who "gather no moss."
> 
> Looks, Everness, like you forgot a very significant part of these lyrics.  They are as follows:
> 
> "You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometimes, you might just find, *you get what you need.*"
> 
> I'm hopeful our ScrewPC friend will have found what he/she needed by posting here.



Gen, thank you for completing the lyrics! Maybe our friend got what he wanted and needed ...


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## cuchuflete

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> I'm hopeful our ScrewPC friend will have found what he/she needed by posting here.


 And if not, he/she can just listen to that luminary of unbiased opinion, Rush...I only buy prescription drugs in parking lots...Limbo.  He too likes to blame the media for causing our world to go to hell in a handbasket.  It's the liberal media.  They are the ones undermining W and the Free World

Luckily, we are free to accuse the media and The University of Tennessee for the preciptious decline of proper nomenclature.  We are equally free to say, with a broad yawn..."Oh really?!".

Long live Santa (note the religious name) Clause and the Easter Bunny.


----------



## Jonegy

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Long live Santa (note the religious name) Clause and the Easter Bunny.


 
And I would truly love a devout christian to explain what the hell the Easter Bunny has to to with the crucifixion of some jewish carpenter's alleged son.  

Like the ancient festival of Yule - Easter was just another pagan festival comandeered by the nascent christian faith to keep the locals happy.

I don't think it merits a separate thread so I'll just ask this here    -   

If christmas is supposed to be such a happy time  -  WHY IS THE MUSIC SO BLOODY MISERABLE !!!


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## cuchuflete

Jonegy said:
			
		

> ...what the hell the Easter Bunny has to to with the crucifixion
> 
> 
> If christmas is supposed to be such a happy time  -  WHY IS THE MUSIC SO BLOODY MISERABLE !!!



For number 1, I suggest you ask a rabbit fundamentalist.

For your second question, I'll offer an old definition of the Salvation Army:

They are the people who tell you where you're going to go if you don't behave.   Then they begin to play music, so you'll know what it will be like when you get there.

Sorry to go so far off topic... this thread was about phobias wasn't it?


----------

