# FR: Je le prends



## patm718

Consider this exchange:

Hotel Employee: We have one room available, for 150 euros.

Person: "D'accord. Je le prends."

(This by the way, is from the 501 French verbs book).

Now, I understand that this makes perfect grammatical sense, but how does this work in this situation? Why would you not use the future tense? I have heard it used like that before. In other words, why would the person not say "Je le prendrai"?

Also, if it is correct to say "Je le prends" and apparently incorrect to say "Je le prendrai," would it then be incorrect to say "Je prendrai" at a small food place to say "I'll take..."?

Thank you for entertaining my novice questions.


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## Lacuzon

Hi,

Because the employee speaks with present tense, the person answers also with present tense. The person could also use futur proche like _"D'accord, je vais *la* prendre"_ . Using futur there would have no sense in French because we would not know when in the future the person will take the room.

Does that help ?


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## Juan Jacob Vilalta

patm718 said:


> Consider this exchange:
> 
> Hotel Employee: We have one room available, for 150 euros.
> 
> Person: "D'accord. Je le prends."
> 
> (This by the way, is from the 501 French verbs book).
> 
> Now, I understand that this makes perfect grammatical sense, but how does this work in this situation? Why would you not use the future tense? I have heard it used like that before. In other words, why would the person not say "Je le prendrai"?  and   if *tomorrow. *Simple.
> 
> Also, if it is correct to say "Je le prends" and apparently incorrect to say "Je le prendrai," would it then be incorrect to say "Je prendrai" at a small food place to say "I'll take..."? No, that's OK.
> 
> Thank you for entertaining my novice questions. No problem, [...]


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## patm718

OK, thank you very much. Essentially, what I have learned here is that the French future tense and English future tense are used differently. I still have more studying to do on that part.  

One final question, to Lacuzon - why did you change the "le" to "la"?


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## jann

patm718 said:


> One final question, to Lacuzon - why did you change the "le" to "la"?


Because you're almost certainly talking about *la*_ chambre ! _


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## lilouxrs

patm718 said:


> OK, thank you very much. Essentially, what I have learned here is that the French future tense and English future tense are used differently. I still have more studying to do on that part.
> 
> One final question, to Lacuzon - why did you change the "le" to "la"?


 
because it's "une chambre" (feminine)
in a food place, you can either say "je vais prendre" or "je prendrai".


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## patm718

ah, oui. thank you for bearing with me. french is an amazing language, and i am loving learning it. even when i become frustrated.


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## Paxal

Because to use the future tense, you need to specify a time reference like "je la prendrai demain" ou "je la prendrai quand je serai prêt", and so it needs something to cling to - without a time reference, you have to use the present tense ("bien, alors je la prends").


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## timpeac

patm718 said:


> Consider this exchange:
> 
> Hotel Employee: We have one room available, for 150 euros.
> 
> Person: "D'accord. Je le prends."
> 
> (This by the way, is from the 501 French verbs book).
> 
> Now, I understand that this makes perfect grammatical sense, but how does this work in this situation? Why would you not use the future tense? I have heard it used like that before. In other words, why would the person not say "Je le prendrai"?
> 
> Also, if it is correct to say "Je le prends" and apparently incorrect to say "Je le prendrai," would it then be incorrect to say "Je prendrai" at a small food place to say "I'll take..."?
> 
> Thank you for entertaining my novice questions.


Although "will" used in phrases such as "I'll take it" is usually analysed as being the future tense it does contain a flavour of its original meaning of volition, or wanting. So "I'll take it" is more "I'm willing to take it" than "I will take it in the future" and has to be translated accordingly.

This is more obvious in a phrase such as "I'll help you!" Here you are saying "I am willing to help you, don't worry" not "at some unspecified time in the future I will help you". Similarly "will you help me?" is "tu veux bien m'aider ?" and probably not "tu m'aideras ?" (depending on the context).


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## patm718

Wow, fantastic answers. Both those recent posts helped me understand this future tense a lot more. Thank you both so much, I appreciate it greatly.


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## Chimel

Paxal said:


> Because to use the future tense, you need to specify a time reference like "je la prendrai demain" ou "je la prendrai quand je serai prêt", and so it needs something to cling to - without a time reference, you have to use the present tense ("bien, alors je la prends").


Yes, but this time reference may be implicit:
- Je t'invite à mon anniversaire le 18 août.
- D'accord, je viendrai.
But in your example at this (quite expensive... ) hotel, there is no future time reference, neither explicit, nor implicit: he just takes the room now, the future would sound strange.

An exception is "je prendrai (le menu du jour)" when you order in a restaurant or so. I would say it conveys a sort of hesitation about the choice whereas "je prends le menu du jour" is more decided. You often pronounce it with a short pause between verb and complement: "Je prendrai... hmmm... le menu du jour". But I don't think of any other verb where it is possible (not: "*je boirai le vin du patron", for instance).

Note that "je vais prendre" is OK in both situations, as it has been pointed out:
- D'accord, je vais la prendre (the room).
- Je vais prendre le menu du jour.


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## Paxal

I totally agree that the time reference can be implicit, like most things in languages, but in your example le 18 août IS a time reference (hence, je viendrai) - here I don't see how the future tense can be used as the inviting is being done as it is uttered (performative use of the verb such as I declare the meeting over, or I baptise you...), i.e. now, so only the present can be used. We agree anyway that in the example given at the start, only the present is possible (*je la prendrai).


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## Chimel

What I mean, is: in the sentence "D'accord, je viendrai", there _is_ no explicit time reference. So Patm718 or other interested people should not think that the time reference must absolutely be in the sentence itself.

I put this very short dialogue just to give a minimal context. In real life, you can have a much longer dialogue or a situation where it is clear that we speak about this birthday on August 18th, for instance. And then, at some point, if the time reference is implicit, the person might just say "Je viendrai".


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## Paxal

Chimel said:


> What I mean, is: in the sentence "D'accord, je viendrai", there _is_ no explicit time reference. So Patm718 or other interested people should not think that the time reference must absolutely be in the sentence itself.
> 
> I put this very short dialogue just to give a minimal context. In real life, you can have a much longer dialogue or a situation where it is clear that we speak about this birthday on August 18th, for instance. And then, at some point, if the time reference is implicit, the person might just say "Je viendrai".



You are entirely right, the time reference does not have to be repeated over and over again to use the future, just once is enough.


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## jann

Greetings all, 

While the discussion is interesting, I am concerned that it is straying rather far from the original question:  usage of the present tense when reserving a hotel room with "_je la prends_".  I have split the comments on discussing the weather into a separate thread.  Please do make an effort to stick to the original topic, rather than drawing in a great variety of other sentences with interesting tense usage. 

Thanks!
Jann
Moderator


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## mattdelm

Bonsoir,

On dit "je la prends" parce que c'est "*la* Chambre", n'est ce pas?


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## Lacuzon

Bonsoir,

Oui tout à fait !


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## GerardM

Hi everyone,

As Timpeac wrote it in post #9, in English, the I'll take it is not the future tense but a I will take it with a meaning of I want to take it.



I hope not to confuse people but let's take the example of a booking for the future.

Today is July 11 and I want a room for the night of August 11. I'm on the phone and after some responses from the hotel employee regarding the availability, the price, etc.
I will say "Je la prends" and not "Je la prendrai".
This present means that we reached agreement today.

Would you do the same in English?


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## jann

ipl_001 said:


> As Timpeac wrote it in post #9, in English, the I'll take it is not the future tense but a I will take it with a meaning of I want to take it.


 I think that is taking Timpeac's statement too far. 

When you say "I will take it," that is the future tense.  As it happens, the modal verb "will" that allows us to form future tense conjugations in English is (etymologically) related to a verbal expression of volition. But that doesn't mean that the sentence in question is about volition!  You can't say that "I'll take it" is not future tense but rather about wanting the room.  It is absolutely, 100% future tense.  There is no other tense it could be.  The expression and context as a whole, not the future conjugation of "to take", are what communicate acceptance as the primary meaning, rather than imparting a primary idea of future action.



> Today is July 11 and I want a room for the night of August 11. I'm on the phone and after some responses from the hotel employee regarding the availability, the price, etc.
> I will say "Je la prends" and not "Je la prendrai".
> This present means that we reached agreement today.  Would you do the same in English?


No, we would not.  In English, it doesn't matter if you're booking the room for tonight, tomorrow, next month, or next year, we will always say "I'll take it."  I cannot think of a single example where we could say "I take it" for a room reservation.

I guess that English treats the room as not "taken" until you physically occupy it, so you always talk about taking the room as either a future action (because you have agreed to occupy the room, but are not yet installed) or a past action (because you agreed to occupy it, and are already installed... or agreed to occupy it, and did so.).  You never agree to occupy it and move in at the exact same time... so the present is not really an option for this particular sentence in English.


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## Chimel

jann said:


> No, we would not. In English, it doesn't matter if you're booking the room for tonight, tomorrow, next month, or next year, we will always say "I'll take it." I cannot think of a single example where we could say "I take it" for a room reservation.


And what about a game, for instance?
- Tu prends les pions blancs ou les noirs?
- Je prends les noirs.

Would you say "I take" or "I'll take the black ones"? In this case, you physically take them at the very moment of speaking (contrary to a hotel room).


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## je-ne-regrette-rien

> And what about a game, for instance?
> - Tu prends les pions blancs ou les noirs?
> - Je prends les noirs.
> 
> Would you say "I take" or "I'll take the black ones"? In this case, you physically take them at the very moment of speaking (contrary to a hotel room).



You would definitely say 'I'll take the black ones' - probably because there is, inevitably, some hesitation before you actually take them (you may wait for the other person's assent, etc). I think that in English, you usually say 'I'll take' for these types of examples, when you are taking something for your own usage - perhaps as politeness - 'I take black ones' probably seemed rather grabbing, and now would be grammatically incorrect! 

_- I'll take the coffee. 
- I'll take the room. 
- I'll take the blue dress._

But 

_-I take my child to school. 
- I take the car to work. 
- I take sugar in my coffee_ (These examples are repeated actions; that's probably why you put them in the present.)


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## timpeac

jann said:


> I think that is taking Timpeac's statement too far.
> 
> When you say "I will take it," that is the future tense. As it happens, the modal verb "will" that allows us to form future tense conjugations in English is (etymologically) related to a verbal expression of volition. But that doesn't mean that the sentence in question is about volition!


I'm afraid that you're not taking it far enough though.

It is a grey area, but I think there is genuine over-lap between the mode of volition and the tense of future here.

It makes much more sense to analyse "will you tell me what she said?" as "are you of a mind/willing to tell me what she said?" than a pure future.

In English, it's playing semantics a bit because both the action depends on will _and_ is in the future (albeit often a very near one) so it doesn't really matter which it represents more. I remember being advised in a translation course that the slide from pure future to pure volition had to be considered on seeing the word "will" in finding a good translation though.

_Why won't you believe me?_ (100% volition)
_I'll go now._ (intermediate)
_The train will leave at 3._ (100% future)

In terms of French, that slide goes from a future tense, through the present tense, to actively using an indication of volition such as "vouloir".

If I had to speculate about why English and French don't coincide on usage here I'd say it's because English already has the word "will" which has taken on grammatical load and its semantic load is watered down - you're left with an indicator of both wanting and future depending on context. Because French doesn't form its future with such a word it is much stronger to actually use a reflex of "vouloir" for the wanting element. Since equally the future element isn't felt to be strong either the present tense is often used if the context doesn't make either future or wanting win out.


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## Chimel

je-ne-regrette-rien said:


> You would definitely say 'I'll take the black ones' - probably because there is, inevitably, some hesitation before you actually take them (you may wait for the other person's assent, etc). I think that in English, you usually say 'I'll take' for these types of examples, when you are taking something for your own usage - perhaps as politeness - 'I take black ones' probably seemed rather grabbing, and now would be grammatically incorrect!
> 
> _- I'll take the coffee. _
> _- I'll take the room. _
> _- I'll take the blue dress._
> 
> But
> 
> _-I take my child to school. _
> _- I take the car to work. _
> _- I take sugar in my coffee_ (These examples are repeated actions; that's probably why you put them in the present.)


Very interesting indeed, thanks ! 

I think we can conclude that there is a sort of "hesitation" or "politeness" meaning of the future tense in English when you express a choice,

In French, you may use the present tense without being "rude" or too direct, but if you want to convey this nuance, you'd better use the "futur proche":
- Je vais prendre les noirs
- Je vais prendre le menu du jour.


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## GerardM

Hi jann, timpeac, je-ne-regrette-rien, Chimel, hi everyone,

Thanks a lot for the words that provide me with precious information to better learn your language!
That's very interesting and important to understand the "philosophy" behind the grammar.

Just some additional words about "je prends"...
These exchanges b/w I will-future & I will-volition makes me think that at the stock exchange, when it was still physical (manual) with true people around the "corbeille" of the Palais Brongniart in Paris, "Je prends" was the exact wording when the employee meant he wanted to buy.
Here too they were using the present tense for the agreement (even when the operation was truly done at the end of the month).

Thanks again! I appreciate!


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