# Punjabi: articulation of ق



## panjabigator

Greetings,

Started from this thread.

Would you say that the "qaaf" is pronounced as a "kaaf" in Pakistani Punjabi, regardless of education and socioeconomic class?  I've listen closely to Abida Parveen and NFAK and have never heard a crisp, "qainchi wala qaaf" in their Punjabi performances.

PG


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## BP.

Ah _Qaaf _thou venerable _Qaaf_!

To begin with, Abida Parveen's mother-tongue is Sindhi. That said, the issue extends to Sindhi as well.

Keeping in mind my relatively light repertoire of studying ethno-linguistic characteristics socially, by my memory I can't recall one Punjabi-phone who didn't mispronounce the _qaaf_. And I've seen only one TV personality from Lahore say it correctly, but obviously being from Lahore doesn't necessarily mean your first language is Punjabi.

If you look at Pakistan's map, then save certain districts almost everybody pronounces it _kaaf _or what our friend Icfatima calls 'something between the two' (and I think that probably we're trying to hear a _qaaf _and that makes it not seem like a simple _kaaf_). The 'aberrant' districts would be Karachi, Quetta and some Persi-phone areas of Baluchistan, Dir, Mardan and some other areas of northern KP, some _ahliaane Lahaur_, people from certain sections of the Urdu-phone diaspora, some _mashaaikh o qura2_ and ...that's about it.

Man you made me realize my _qaaf _is a big incriminating evidence to my extra-IVC roots: (



> "qainchi wali qaaf"


*waalaa*. _Huruufe teHejjii_ are masculine _janaabe waalaa_!


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## Cilquiestsuens

Couldn't agree more with every single detail of BP's post.

Now, specifically about Punjab; I am still waiting for the first Punjabi to pronunce _qaaf_ 'properly'... And can be waiting for a lifetime.


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## panjabigator

BP, really enjoyed your post!

Yes, Abida Parveen is a Sindhi speaker, but I've heard her _crisp_ Urdu narration during performances.  On second thought, maybe I ought to go back and listen again - I don't know what a Sindhi accent sounds like.  All I can compare to is Lucknavi and Gulabi Urdu   But anyway, Punjabis (as Cilqui has said elsewhere) articulate phe, khe, and ghain, and fe correctly (more or less) but not/never qaaf.  I've heard Nusrat pronounce the qaaf in Urdu (and he has a pronounced Punjabi accent) but never in Punjabi.  It's an interesting decision.

In a forum I used to be apart of, I remember a member saying that Punjabis typically never pronounce the "qaaf," as that would be a giveaway as to not being a native Punjabiphone, but he didn't specify if meant while speaking Punjabi or Urdu.  I now assume that he meant both.

And lastly, thank you BP for the correction!  کثیر تھینکس


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## lcfatima

BP: It is Pakistani Urdu speakers of North Indian origin who I hear articulating something that is qaaf in Urdu but not exactly how Arabic tajweed prescribes it. Punjabi phones exclusively say -kaaf.


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## panjabigator

I feel like I hear it a lot by diaspora Urdu speakers - and yes, someone of them come from Punjabiphone backgrounds.


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## BP.

lcfatima said:


> BP: It is Pakistani Urdu speakers of North Indian origin who I hear articulating something that is qaaf in Urdu but not exactly how Arabic tajweed prescribes it. Punjabi phones exclusively say -kaaf.



That might be the case with some of them, but to be honest I can't spot the difference between their qaaf and that of Arabophones. I converse with Arabic speakers frenquently and their qaaf is no different to ours.


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## BP.

Hypothesizing:
The North-Indian-Urdu-speakers' qaaf may be an overhang from the Mughal Empire, when towards its end they shifted from Farsi to Urdu and the qaaf passed over. The remnants of the families still retain it.
Plausible? I think very.
What are your thoughts?


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## Cilquiestsuens

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Hypothesizing:
> The North-Indian-Urdu-speakers' qaaf may be an overhang from the Mughal Empire, when towards its end they shifted from Farsi to Urdu and the qaaf passed over. The remnants of the families still retain it.
> Plausible? I think very.
> What are your thoughts?


 
This kind of linguistic history is not well documented if not documented at all.
A few books can give hints. I am thinking of *daryaa-e lataafat* by *Insha Allah Khan Insha*, which discuss how the different communities spoke Urdu, but that is very first years of the 19th century. Don't have the book at hand now...


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## Koozagar

I love this delving into the history of 'Qaf'. Would like to hear more.

PG,
As far as the switch by Nusrat and Abida between pronouncing and not  pronouncing the 'Qaf', my hypothesis is that 'Qaf' gets more  pronounced as we say something that we intend to lay specific emphasis  on and in the instance where we wish to appear 'scholarly' and well  educated. The place of Urdu/3rabi/Farsi as the language of the educated  in the imagination of the Punjabi (or Sindhi) compels him/her to assume  that demeanor whereby he/she pronounces letters more accurately than  he/she would in normal speech.
(not sure if this makes sense, but I think I tend to do that)


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## panjabigator

Qureshpor posted an interesting quote in another thread about how articulation can betray origins (re: "main ne jaanaa" versus "mujhe jaanaa"). I now remember a conversation from about 8 years ago with a Lahori who told me that no Punjabi would ever pronounce a "qaaf" as a "kaaf" because that would suggest they "weren't Punjabi." I too have experienced moments of where articulate or text-book speech is misconstrued or inappropriate for conversation, where my Punjabi loses its "Punjabiness" and is understood as Hindi. (I remember that when I would speak my textbook Hindi with my family and peers, once the initial laughter subsided (finally!), there would be a correction that went against my prescriptivist notions of language.) Anyway, I wanted to share this anecdote as something that helps explain that kaaf-qaaf debate


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## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> ...
> I too have experienced moments of where articulate or text-book speech is misconstrued or inappropriate for conversation, where my Punjabi loses its "Punjabiness" and is understood as Hindi. (I remember that when I would speak my textbook Hindi with my family and peers, once the initial laughter subsided (finally!), there would be a correction that went against my prescriptivist notions of language.) Anyway, I wanted to share this anecdote as something that helps explain that kaaf-qaaf debate.



I can well understand this! However, in Urdu proper (not just reading but speech too) we've always kept the qaaf-kaaf difference. One of the things that distinguishes Urdu from Hindi.


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## Qureshpor

*I, as a Punjabi, would like to make a few points, if I may.

1) There is no doubt whatsoever that very few Punjabis, consciously or unconsciously, pronounce the letter "qaaf" as it ought to be pronounced. I am excluding those Punjabis who belong to the "religious fold" who do pronounce the "qainchii vaalaa qaaf" and their qainchii could be even sharper!

2) One should not be surprised to find one speech community speaking another language falling somewhat short of the required expectations. And this goes beyond the mispronunciation of just one consonant. There are other aspects of general pronunciation such as consonants like "gh", "dh" as in ghar, dhuum etc as well as correct intonation.

3) In Pakistani Urdu dramas, they always seem to have one or two characters whose job is tell the rest of the world that they are Punjabis! Here, I am reiterating PG's point to some extent. This "Punjabiness" is being emphasized to a degree of ludicrousness.

4) Punjabi speaking community is not the only community that has certain idiosyncrasies where Urdu pronunciation is concerned. Within the Subcontinent, be it from Pakistan, India or Bangladesh, there is no community which does not display some particular facet of their pronunciation which goes against the grain of accepted Urdu pronunciation. For example, some Pashtuns might mix up genders, Indian Punjabis might pronounce "f" as "ph" and "ph" as "f" amongst other differences. Other communities seem to struggle with "sh" which they pronounce as "s" and so on and so forth. This is quite natural. Do the French speak Queen's English pronunciation? No! The point is "aur bhii dukh haiN zamaane meN qaaf ke sivaa"! What is the big deal about the qaaf? There are other Arabic consonants which are pronounced equally wrongly by Punjabis, ahl-i-zabaan and everyone else and their dog!

5) I might be biased here but I would say that an educated Punjabi speaker's Urdu is likely to be better than most if not all other speech communities, apart from ahl-i-zabaan.

6) Within ahl-i-zabaan, you will come across forms of colloquial Urdu which bears no relationship to the chaste Urdu Faylasoof, BP and Koozagar Saahibaan have in mind. I am of course not suggesting that the ahl-i-zabaan community is one homogeneous community. I come across my English colleagues saying things like "We was..." ! In this regard, most if not all foreigners would never make this grammatical error!

7) Any consonant sound of one language can be learnt and correctly articulated by a speaker of another language. The letter "qaaf" is no exception. The precondition is that one needs to be aware of one's shortcoming and there has to be a will to learn.

8) Urduvaalas learning to speak Punjabi could also struggle with some of its features. I wonder how many of them would be able to correctly articulate the intonation of Punjabi words for "bitter", "leper" and "horse"

9) Having said all this, the most important thing is to be able to communicate with one another. If the listener is able to understand the word "kaatil" when the speaker should have said, "qaatil", all is well!

10) We will have to meet somewhere and then those people who have never met a Punjabi able to articulate a qaainchii-daar qaaf might get a pleasant surprise!*

*One or two more points

A) Gender *confusion* in terms of verb conjugation for say a female/male speaker occurs not only amongst Pashtuns but also Bengalis. This I assume would be due to lack of this distinction in their own tongues. Urdu speaking Hyderabadis are no exception either. (I know a couple of Hyderabadi families. Interestingly, in one of them, the lady of the house would say, "maiN vahaaN gayaa thaa" whereas the husband uses correct gender alignment.

B) It is common knowledge that Hyderabadis pronounce the letter qaaf as Khe. Modern Iranians pronounce it something like a Ghain. Amongst the Arabs, the Egyptians pronounce it as a glottal stop, the hamza whilst Sudanese pronounce it as a Ghain. I believe in the Gulf countries it is pronounced like our gaaf.*

*C) Within the subcontinent, it would be interesting to know which communities, apart from Urdu mother tongue speakers, routinely  pronounce the qaaf correctly. I would hazard a guess and say that with the possible exception of Pashtuns, no one else does it!*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *
> ...
> 6) Within ahl-i-zabaan, you will come across forms of colloquial Urdu which bears no relationship to the chaste Urdu Faylasoof, BP and Koozagar Saahibaan have in mind. I am of course not suggesting that the ahl-i-zabaan community is one homogeneous community. I come across my English colleagues saying things like "We was..." ! In this regard, most if not all foreigners would never make this grammatical error!
> 
> 7) Any consonant sound of one language can be learnt and correctly articulated by a speaker of another language. The letter "qaaf" is no exception. The precondition is that one needs to be aware of one's shortcoming and there has to be a will to learn.
> 
> 8) Urduvaalas learning to speak Punjabi could also struggle with some of its features. I wonder how many of them would be able to correctly articulate the intonation of Punjabi words for "bitter", "leper" and "horse"
> 
> 9) Having said all this, the most important thing is to be able to communicate with one another. If the listener is able to understand the word "kaatil" when the speaker should have said, "qaatil", all is well!
> **....*
> 
> *One or two more points
> 
> A) Gender *confusion* in terms of verb conjugation for say a female/male speaker occurs not only amongst Pashtuns but also Bengalis. This I assume would be due to lack of this distinction in their own tongues. Urdu speaking Hyderabadis are no exception either. (I know a couple of Hyderabadi families. Interestingly, in one of them, the lady of the house would say, "maiN vahaaN gayaa thaa" whereas the husband uses correct gender alignment.
> 
> B) It is common knowledge that Hyderabadis pronounce the letter qaaf as Khe. Modern Iranians pronounce it something like a Ghain. Amongst the Arabs, the Egyptians pronounce it as a glottal stop, the hamza whilst Sudanese pronounce it as a Ghain. I believe in the Gulf countries it is pronounced like our gaaf.*
> 
> *C) Within the subcontinent, it would be interesting to know which communities, apart from Urdu mother tongue speakers, routinely  pronounce the qaaf correctly. I would hazard a guess and say that with the possible exception of Pashtuns, no one else does it!*



Of course we have pronunciation differences even amongst native Urduphones, and I was certainly not suggesting that Punjabis _should_ pronounce a crisp qaaf (ق)! Some of my Punjabi friends do while others don't when speaking Urdu. In Punjabi they consistently do not, which is perfectly OK!    

I agree with this! Actually the problem we have for Urdu is that most Urdu teachers I've met in Pakistan and some even in India do not bother with _qaaf_ , treating it as _kaaf_ instead. 

I would imagine this would be true for many of us whose native language is not Punjabi.

True! Trying to get your message across is indeed the main point of communication but it is always good to try to imitate the native pronunciation! At least I always make the effort to do so whenever I learn a new language. 
 
This is not what we are discussing! If you wish to go further with it then please make a new thread! BTW, there might even be thread on gender in Hyderabadi Urdu, so please search!

We might have discussed these earlier in various threads! Anyway, let us stay on the topic!!

It would indeed be interesting to know which other language group members bother with qaaf in the subcontinent.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> True! Trying to get your message across is indeed the main point of communication but it is always good to try to imitate the native pronunciation! At least I always make the effort to do so whenever I learn a new language.
> 
> *Agreed. Except that as far as Urdu is concerned, there is more than one "native" pronunciation. If one was imitating one native community, the qaaf would turn out to be a Khe!*
> 
> This is not what we are discussing! If you wish to go further with it then please make a new thread! BTW, there might even be thread on gender in Hyderabadi Urdu, so please search!
> 
> We might have discussed these earlier in various threads! Anyway, let us stay on the topic!!




*I feel both these points (qaaf and gender) are relevant to the discussion and I shall not say anything further if it is still felt to be off topic. What I am trying to say is that the qaaf issue is not unique or sacrament in any way. Other consonants are equally important and so are grammatical features such as gender. If one community is mispronouncing the letter qaaf, another [Urdu speaking] community is doing likewise. Moreover that same community along with others is getting the gender mixed up too!*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *
> I feel both these points (qaaf and gender) are relevant to the discussion and I shall not say anything further if it is still felt to be off topic. What I am trying to say is that the qaaf issue is not unique or sacrament in any way. Other consonants are equally important and so are grammatical features such as gender. If one community is mispronouncing the letter qaaf, another [Urdu speaking] community is doing likewise. Moreover that same community along with others is getting the gender mixed up too!*



I fully understand your point about _qaaf _and in fact we've discussed this before for Urdu at least, including the variant Deccani Urdu pronunciation.

_I needed to say something about the gender topic lest we start discussing it here! As you'll notice I didn't delete it! 

_As an example, the grammatical gender issue is one of many we have that shows a level of diversity in Urdu but here the topic is the articulation of qaaf and that too in Punjabi, though we are discussing its pronunciation in other languages as well for comparison. That is fine too!


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## Alfaaz

I don't know if this is the right place/thread for this question, but could members listen to the following and tell which one(s) seem to be proper Urdu qaaf's? (Tried to include people of different backgrounds: Punjabi: Malika Pukhraaj, Tahira Sayed, Noor Jahan ; Bengali: Munni Begum ; Saraiki/Multani/Punjabi: Naheed Akhtar and Pathanay Khan ; Hindi/Marathi? : Lata Mangeshkar ; Rajistani/Hindi/Urdu: Mehdi Hassan) More examples could be added to the (quickly made) list and would be appreciated! 

hafeez jalandhari: abhi to mein jawaan: malika pukhraj ابھی تو میں جوان ہوں
1:13 saaqiya, 1:58 ufaq, 3:04 a'shiqi, 3:52 qissah, 4:43 qayaas, 5:03 qadH, 6:15 qehqehe 

Ae Mere Humnasheen
Muni Begum 4:51 qismat, 4:99 waqt, 5:22 yaqeen-an 

noor jehan live a mere ham nasheen
8:10 qismat, 8:17 waqt, 8:35 yaqeen-an 

Madam Noor Jahan - Sohni Dharti Allah Rakhe (By Radio Pakistan).wmv 
Qadam (throughout) and waqt 9:36 

NAHEED AKHTAR - Suna Hai Mohabbat Ka Pyasa Hai Tu....
0:34 Haqeeqat, 2:25 qayaamat, 2:28 qayaamat, 2:32 qayaamat, 3:42 Haqeeqat 

Bharosa - Shabab Ladkhada Gaya - Nahid Akhtar
nashah sa dil pe chhaa gaya; tum kaho ge kis liye...is liye keh tum mere qareeb ho! keh tum mere Qareeb ho...!

Qissa-e-gham mein tera naam (Mehdi Hassan)
0:20 

Mughal - E - Azam - Pyar Kiya To Darna Kya - Lata Mangeshkar
4:37, 5:04 i'shq,...................................................................................... _3:43 maut Does this sound correct?_

Ay Dost Zara Aur Qareeb E Rag E Jaan Ho اے دوست ذرا اور قریب رگ جاں ہو
Qareeb!


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz SaaHib, it is asking a bit too much for people to listen to your "Desert Island Discs"!

In a recent thread "Hindi and Urdu pronunciation differences", Fatima SaaHibah said:


> In my observation, many native Urdu speakers pronounce q as k colloquially but maintain gh and x.



This has pleased me no end!!! The inclusion of the word "colloquially" (roz-marrah) is interesting though. I am assuming the Punjabi pronunciation of qaaf is being looked at from the same angle.


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## Alfaaz

> Alfaaz SaaHib, it is asking a bit too much for people to listen to your "Desert Island Discs"!


 ; The reason for asking this was due to an observation (which might be wrong): Urdu speakers' (native and non-native) qaaf seems to be a bit "throaty"...kind of like the خ (as was mentioned earlier for the ح). On the other hand, listening to tilaawat by native Arabic speakers (like Sheikh Sudais during Taraweehs, for example), it seems that their qaafs are a bit "smoother" / less "throaty". Again this observation might be wrong, as pronunciation and listening would vary from person to person!


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## Qureshpor

Koozagar said:


> I love this delving into the history of 'Qaf'. Would like to hear more.
> 
> PG,
> As far as the switch by Nusrat and Abida between pronouncing and not  pronouncing the 'Qaf', my hypothesis is that 'Qaf' gets more  pronounced as we say something that we intend to lay specific emphasis  on and in the instance where we wish to appear 'scholarly' and well  educated. The place of Urdu/3rabi/Farsi as the language of the educated  in the imagination of the Punjabi (or Sindhi) compels him/her to assume  that demeanor whereby he/she pronounces letters more accurately than  he/she would in normal speech.
> (not sure if this makes sense, but I think I tend to do that)



Yes, you are making perfect sense. People (Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashtuun etc) who have an awareness of proper Urdu pronunciation are  more likely to be on their guard and pay special attention to their delivery of words when speaking Urdu. In their own respective tongues, they would not be self-conscious and consequently would be relaxed.


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## lcfatima

> Urdu speakers' (native and non-native) qaaf seems to be a bit "throaty"...kind of like the خ (as was mentioned earlier for the ح). On the other hand, listening to tilaawat by native Arabic speakers (like Sheikh Sudais during Taraweehs, for example), it seems that their qaafs are a bit "smoother" / less "throaty". Again this observation might be wrong, as pronunciation and listening would vary from person to person!



Thanks Alfaaz, you have articulated what I was trying to explain above when I said that it is not exactly how it is prescribed in tajweed. The Northern Urdu qaaf is not as throaty and fricated as a Hyderabadi /q/ but still there is some kind of frication, almost a click, and it is somehow deeper in the throat than the prescribed Arabic qaaf.


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## Alfaaz

> Thanks Alfaaz, you have articulated what I was trying to explain above when I said that it is not exactly how it is prescribed in tajweed. The Northern Urdu qaaf is not as throaty and fricated as a Hyderabadi /q/ but still there is some kind of frication, almost a click, and it is somehow deeper in the throat than the prescribed Arabic qaaf.


It might be a bit too much to ask and do, but which singers' qaaf (from the list I gave) do you find to be an "Urdu" one, which do you consider an "Arabic" one, and which do you find to be just a simple kaaf based on your Urdu and Arabic experiences?


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## marrish

Re Punjabi-qaaf, it is there in the language of some and in certain contexts, however I estimate that it is frequently substituted by kaaf in the common parlance.

I don't think the differences which might be heard in pronunciation of proper qaaf have any qualitative effect.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> I don't know if this is the right place/thread for this question, but could members listen to the following and tell which one(s) seem to be proper Urdu qaaf's? (Tried to include people of different backgrounds: Punjabi: Malika Pukhraaj, Tahira Sayed, Noor Jahan ; Bengali: Munni Begum ; Saraiki/Multani/Punjabi: Naheed Akhtar and Pathanay Khan ; Hindi/Marathi? : Lata Mangeshkar ; Rajistani/Hindi/Urdu: Mehdi Hassan) More examples could be added to the (quickly made) list and would be appreciated!
> 
> hafeez jalandhari: abhi to mein jawaan: malika pukhraj ابھی تو میں جوان ہوں
> 1:13 saaqiya, 1:58 ufaq, 3:04 a'shiqi, 3:52 qissah, 4:43 qayaas, 5:03 qadH, 6:15 qehqehe
> 
> Ae Mere Humnasheen
> Muni Begum 4:51 qismat, 4:99 waqt, 5:22 yaqeen-an
> 
> noor jehan live a mere ham nasheen
> 8:10 qismat, 8:17 waqt, 8:35 yaqeen-an
> 
> Madam Noor Jahan - Sohni Dharti Allah Rakhe (By Radio Pakistan).wmv
> Qadam (throughout) and waqt 9:36
> 
> NAHEED AKHTAR - Suna Hai Mohabbat Ka Pyasa Hai Tu....
> 0:34 Haqeeqat, 2:25 qayaamat, 2:28 qayaamat, 2:32 qayaamat, 3:42 Haqeeqat
> 
> Bharosa - Shabab Ladkhada Gaya - Nahid Akhtar
> nashah sa dil pe chhaa gaya; tum kaho ge kis liye...is liye keh tum mere qareeb ho! keh tum mere Qareeb ho...!
> 
> Qissa-e-gham mein tera naam (Mehdi Hassan)
> 0:20
> 
> Mughal - E - Azam - Pyar Kiya To Darna Kya - Lata Mangeshkar
> 4:37, 5:04 i'shq,...................................................................................... _3:43 maut Does this sound correct?_
> 
> Ay Dost Zara Aur Qareeb E Rag E Jaan Ho اے دوست ذرا اور قریب رگ جاں ہو
> Qareeb!



I am not impressed with any of them. I shall try to find some clear cut examples and post the links.


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## Alfaaz

^ How about this? 
PTV Drama Fareb Part 25 _11:13 "salgirah ki taqreeb bhi..." and 11:52 "kisi taqreeb mein"

_Edit: Qaaf by an Arabic speaker (it actually sounds kind of similar to the example above): Wiam Dahmani Zee Aflam Interview part 1/2 _@ 2:23 "crew, taqreeban"_


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## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Couldn't agree more with every single detail of BP's post.
> 
> Now, specifically about Punjab; I am still waiting for the first Punjabi to pronunce _qaaf_ 'properly'... And can be waiting for a lifetime.



Cilquiestsuens SaaHib, may the Almighty prolong your and BP SaaHib's life for you to be able to listen to a Punjabi pronouncing the "qaaf" correctly. Here is Mohammad Rafi singing "MERI MOHABBAT KABOOL KAR LO" on Youtube. Please listen out at 0.38 and 2.56 for "Haqiir". Hopefully this should count as at least once for you.


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## BP.

Unfair bundling me in! I have heard a Panjabi person say Q loud and clear, and so I had hinted. Make that two Panjabi persons now, and that's only in Urdu speech, I'm sure people made the effort for qira2at and other literary things.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Unfair bundling me in! I have heard a Panjabi person say Q loud and clear, and so I had hinted. Make that two Panjabi persons now, and that's only in Urdu speech, I'm sure people made the effort for qira2at and other literary things.



I only posted this link because I found it quite incredible the perception being put forward that amongst millions of Punjabis, not even one uttering the qaaf correctly (barring religious figures) could be cited. I wholeheartedly accept that the vast majority of Punjabis are either totally oblivious of this or do not bother putting any effort into its correct pronunciation. But there have got to be a few more than one or two who do pronounce it correctly, when they want to do so!

Fairly recently, I was listening to a young lady news reader on a Pakistani TV channel. I have no idea of her ethnicity (nor was it important for me at that stage) but I found her qaaf pronunciation a sheer pleasure to hear. If I find the appropriate piece, I shall post it. At least that would be an indicator as to how it ought to be pronounced.


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## marrish

Let's be serious, there are of course lots of Punjabi speakers who can and do pronounce qaaf, even on both sides of the border.


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## lcfatima

Has anyone ever noticed that many Urdu speakers use /k/ for /q/ in high frequency and sort of "around the house" words (vakt/vakat, kiima, kainchi) but will consistently produce /q/ when using higher register or "book" words?


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## BP.

lcfatima said:


> Has anyone ever noticed that many Urdu speakers use /k/ for /q/ in high frequency and sort of "around the house" words (vakt/vakat, kiima, kainchi) but will consistently produce /q/ when using higher register or "book" words?


I haven't been around many, especially of my age, for a number of years now, but one of my old friends had the propensity to erroneously slip into the k, something he had picked up from colleagues. the people I have around me don't err on their q.

I feel you cannot blanket Urdu speakers as a monolith, there's a myriad of cultures that grouping would contain. At the risk of making a classist statement, people with less
tarbiyat in the cultural sense would have a greater propensity toward the k. And there are other reasone. Someone who identified himself to me as a person with Bihari heritage, wouldn't ever pronounce the q. His explanation was that in the Karachi he knew people spoke a khichRii rather than proper Urdu, him having grown among Pashtuns.
Most people who's parents would have said the q right, have themselves grown in an environment that doesn't, and you conform to the environment, and my aforementioned friend is a good example of that.
 => If you didn't, you might risk not being understood, because other people would be habituated with a different sound signature for your q-containing word. Looks like this post is going to be a recount of persoal anecdotes, but here goes one more: recently among two guests of mine the wife made the "what did you say" when I said qalaq, with my deeeep terminal q. The husband understood the q and it turned out he could articulate it too if he willed, but the missus told us she thought it was just a spelling convention and the sound was exactly the one as the k. She was an Urdu-speaking person from the Punjab, and her husband was fluently bilingual, so there goes the stereotype.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> ^ How about this?
> PTV Drama Fareb Part 25 _11:13 "salgirah ki taqreeb bhi..." and 11:52 "kisi taqreeb mein"
> 
> _Edit: Qaaf by an Arabic speaker (it actually sounds kind of similar to the example above): Wiam Dahmani Zee Aflam Interview part 1/2 _@ 2:23 "crew, taqreeban"_



In Urdu at 11:20 xush-qismatii is more clearly defined than "taqriib" (I think).

I don't hear any difference from the Arab lady's qaaf in "taqriib-an" and "our" qaaf.


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