# FR: jusqu'à / jusqu'à ce que



## delabretagne

Bonjour tout le monde,
C'est quoi la difference entre *jusqu’à ce que*  et *jusqu’à ???*
*Je veut dire:*
je devrai louer une auto pour le temps *jusqu’à ce que* je trouve un remplacement
je devrai louer une auto pour le temps *jusqu’à *je trouve un remplacement
I will have to rent a car for the time until i find a replacement.

Thanks!!!! 

*Moderator note: *multiple threads merged to create this one


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## Arzhela

delabretagne said:


> je devrai louer une auto pour le temps *jusqu’à ce que* je trouve un(e voiture de) remplacement
> je devrai louer une auto pour le temps *jusqu’à *je trouve un remplacement


In brief :
jusqu'à + noun
Jusqu'à ce que + sentence
Hope it helps


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## Monsieur Hoole

jusqu'à wouldn't be followed by a subject pronoun, more likely a time

eg.  j'attends jusqu'à minuit/3heures/samedi   etc.

M.H.


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## stupot

hey we were just taught the subjunctive in french last week and we were told about 'jusqu'à ce que'... when do you know when to use 'jusqu'à ce que' and when to use simply 'jusqu'à' ?


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## Floor

Hi,
jusqu'à + noun
jusqu'à ce que + sentence with a verb
_Jusqu'à_ ton arrivée
_Jusqu'à ce que _tu arrives
In French, both are correct.


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## Calamitintin

2 petits exemple :
J'étudierai jusqu'à ce que j'aie tout compris.
J'étudierai jusqu'au retour de mon père.
++
Cal


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## Susana Gomes

Hi, can anyone please tell me the difference between jusqu'a and jusqu'a ce que. When should I use each one.

Is it " Ils ont promis de continuer la grève jusqu´à ce que/jusqu'à leurs revendications aient été acceptées."

Thank you so much


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## Forero

Hi, Susana.

I would use _jusqu'à ce que_ here because it is followed by a clause (including the verb in the subjunctive). Use _jusqu'__à_ when only a noun phrase follows (no verb).

The word _à_ is a preposition, like English _to_. We would not say "... to their demands had been accepted", but we would say "... to the acceptance of their demands" (_jusqu'__à __l'acceptation de leurs revendications_).

But the word _que_ is a conjunction, like English _that_. We would not say "... that the acceptance of their demands" with no verb following, but we would say "... that their demands had been accepted" (_jusqu'à ce que leurs revendications aient été acceptées_).
 
What I don't understand is why the word _ce_ is used in _jusqu'à ce que_ but not in _malgré que_ (_malgré_ is a preposition too).


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## owenqi

you may notice that a simple sentence come after " jusqu'à ce que", but noun go with "jusqu'à" 

in your case, "jusqu'à ce que" could be the choice


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## ORVET

What a very difficult question !

In fact it's "*jusque*", "*jusqu*' " (and eventually for old french or poetry  *"j**usques*")

it can be used like a preposition, an adverb and a conjunction (_jusqu'à ce que)._

When it's used like a preposition, it introduces a complement ( so also a noun)

for examples :

Elle est allée *jusqu*'à Berlin.       [preposition]
Elle est allée *jusqu'*au Mexique.  [preposition]
Elle a rougi *jusqu'*aux oreilles.     [preposition]
Il est allé *jusqu'*à prétendre qu'on ne l'avait pas prévenu. [preposition, and there is a verb ...] 
Elle est allée *jusqu'*en Chine.       [preposition, and followed by sth different from "à, au, aux"]
Jusqu'à quand restera t'elle avec nous ? [preposition, with a verb, used for an interrogative phrase]

Il m'a tout pris *jusqu'*à mon honneur ! [adverb]
Tout m'écœure chez lui *jusqu'*à sa bonté feinte ! [adverb]

"*Jusqu'à ce que*" means "*jusqu'au moment où*" or "*jusqu'à tant que*"

Il continuera de marcher *jusqu'*à ce que ses jambes le trahissent.  [conjunction]
Ils ont promis de continuer la grève jusqu´à ce que leurs revendications aient été acceptées. [conjunction]

Do you like learning French ?


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## kmoua809

I know that jusqu'à is used only as a preposition, and that jusqu'à ce que is used as a conjuction, but can someone give me examples of each?  I am very confused with this because jusqu'à ce que is used to show up until a moment in time, such as when he died, or until the thursday, yet I have seen jusqu'à used with time too.  For example, jusqu'à 8h.


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## Maeldan

J'attends jusqu'à ton retour.
J'attends jusqu'à ce que tu reviennes. 

They both have the same meaning  (until a moment in time) but:


you can't use a sentence after _jusqu'à_ : j'attends jusqu'à tu reviens  


and you can't use a noun after _jusqu'à ce que_ : j'attends jusqu'à ce que demain  

Hope this helps 

Note: _jusqu'à _can also mean until a place (je vais jusqu'à Valenciennes / I'm going to/as far as Valenciennes)


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## kmoua809

Maeldan said:


> you can't use a sentence after _jusqu'à_ : j'attends jusqu'à tu reviens


How would I use the past subjunctive, yet the past subjunctive is only used to say something that happened before the main clause, how would I go about saying, "He continued taking photos until he died."  Since _jusqu'à ce que _requires the subjunctive, yet in my sentence, he didn't die before he continued to take pictures.


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## lucas-sp

He continued taking photos until he died = Il prenait de photos sans cesse *jusqu'à sa mort / jusqu'à ce qu'il soit mort / jusqu'à ce qu'il meure. 

*I wouldn't worry about the "past subjunctive goes before" - in fact, that's why most French speakers would probably use the present subjunctive. If you really want to worry about it, just use the passé simple and the subjonctif imparfait.

In this case, it's more of a "jusqu'à ce que" always takes the subjunctive rule. No thought required.


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## Maeldan

I agree with lucas-sp, subjunctive is rather tricky and most French speakers don't use its past tenses, only the present form.Even when it's written, Past subjunctive would sound/look weird to many French speakers.
  e.g. "il avait été contraint d’y rester jusqu’à ce qu’ils *eussent été* *examinés*"

If you can substitute  a noun for the verbal part, do it:

Il continua de prendre des photos jusqu'à* sa mort *instead of a conjugated verb 

I can't explain why but in your example sentence (He continued taking photos until he died) the different translations do not convey the same idea.

Il continua de prendre des photos jusqu'à sa mort -> I'd understand it as a comment on the life of a retired photographer.

Il continua de prendre des photos jusqu'à ce qu'il meure -> here, I see a reporter who is dying and, in a last effort,... well, maybe it's just me ?

What do other people think ?


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## lucas-sp

I agree with you, Maeldan. The one using a subordinate clause in the subjunctive makes me think "He kept taking photos with every last atom of his energy until he finally died" - as if he had been mortally wounded while taking photos and kept on doing so while he was dying. (Perhaps he was gored by an elephant on safari? Or maybe he had just been attacked by a murderer and was trying to leave evidence behind to catch his killer?)

In general, fewer words are better, so using "sa mort" just makes sense.


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## suzi br

Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, it is a mine of useful information and has REALLY helped me to clarify my learning of the subjunctive.  

Merci.


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## FreddieFirebird

This has been really useful to me too, thanks.  Can I check my attempt then?

Ils s'amusaient jusqu'à ce que quelqu'un s'est blessé.  (They were having fun until someone got hurt) and I went with jusqu'à ce que because I follwed it with a full clause, not just a noun or a preposition.  

Thanks!


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## Maître Capello

You correctly chose _jusqu'à ce que_, but the verb following that phrase must always be conjugated in the subjunctive. See also FR: jusqu'à ce que + mode.

_jusqu'à ce que quelqu'un se blesse_


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## FreddieFirebird

Drat!  I missed that somehow.  Thanks for verifying for me!!


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