# Verhaltensregeln in Deutschland



## martinka! :)

My question is: 
which are the most important non-written rules of behaviour in Germany? Which things must I do and which can't I do in order to get on well with people in Germany, don't offend anyone, be polite and smart?
Z.B. in Italien sind alle Verhaltensregeln am Tisch in einem Buch namens "Galateo" enthalten. Gibt es sowas auch in Deutschland?

Thank you very much in advance..
Martina


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## Wynn Mathieson

Have a look at this site.

It concentrates on business etiquette, but contains a fair bit of advice about general manners and customs in Germany.

Wynn


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## Kajjo

martinka! :) said:


> Which are the most important non-written rules of behaviour in Germany? Which things must I do and which can't I do in order to get on well with people in Germany, don't offend anyone, be polite and smart?


1. Be punctual! Don't ever let other people wait for you.

2. Use formal address and surnames until invited to use first names (_Guten Morgen, Herr Meier!_). Do not expect this to happen at all in formal or business relations. Use Dr. titles if applicable. However, students and young people (<21) will probably start on first-name basis in _informal _settings.

3. Important: Do not promise anything you do not intend to keep, including invitations! Germans take you serious! Do not play with your reliability and dependability.

4. Be tidy. Don't throw or put anything anywhere.

5. Do not kiss or hug for greeting. A handshake is far enough, in informal situations a _Hallo_ is fine. Only young, female people sometimes hug as modern import -- many frown upon that new habit.

Vice versa: Do not expect too much small talk in business relations. Don't be offended if Germans are very direct and straight-forward in expressing their wishes, expectations and the abundance of rules.

Otherwise, I guess Italian and German will get along nicely.

For more specific clues we would need your age, job and reason for staying in Germany.

Kajjo


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## Calamitintin

Kajjo said:


> Do not kiss or hug for greeting.



I do it as French mark, and often, at first time, they are surprised, and then "ach...franzosen...! " (kindly said) .
++
Cal


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## Kajjo

Calamitintin said:


> I do it as French mark, and often, at first time, they are surprised, and then "ach...franzosen...! " (kindly said) .
> ++
> Cal


The younger and prettier the hugging-kissing girl is, the more forgiving the Germans probably are... ?

Kajjo


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## Sepia

Kajjo said:


> 1. Be punctual! Don't ever let other people wait for you.
> 
> ..
> ...
> ...
> 
> 5. Do not kiss or hug for greeting. A handshake is far enough, in informal situations a _Hallo_ is fine. Only young, female people sometimes hug as modern import -- many frown upon that new habit.
> ....
> 
> Kajjo




I do not quite agree in this one - it may be a generation thing or even a big city versus small town thing, but people do that a lot where I go. Never noticed that anyone had anything against it.


And once again: By all means be punctual - then people will know for sure that you are a foreigner trying to assimilate. 

Honestly, over the last 10-15 years I have rarely been in an environment where punctuality were prevalent. Not that I find that good or think that it makes us just as cool as the Mediteraneans - but it is simply a fact. When they come from outside they blame it on lack of parking space although everybody in his right mind knows that there are places where it is ridiculous to go by car, and when it is within the same building they use other excuses or none at all. 
For 5-or-some years in a main-stream-company I had a boss who managed to be punctual for a meeting only once during that time. Otherwise he was always 15 min. - give or take a few - late. On the average he waisted about 25-30 of my working hours and 7-800 hours of other people's every year, that way. No-one found that out of the ordinary!


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## Kajjo

Sepia said:


> I do not quite agree in this one - it may be a generation thing or even a big city versus small town thing, but people do that a lot where I go. Never noticed that anyone had anything against it.


I am sure that in companies or universities I have never seen someone hugging or kissing for greeting. Personally, I would be highly irritated. I have only seen young girls -- and those who still want to feel young -- using hugging in Germany. I do not recommend it at all and in my environment I do not know a single person that likes that sort of greeting. 



> And once again: By all means be punctual - then people will know for sure that you are a foreigner trying to assimilate.


Right.



> Honestly, over the last 10-15 years I have rarely been in an environment where punctuality were prevalent.


I did, and in business relations I know that punctuality is still regarded highly. Personally, I would have a very bad feeling if I let other people wait and I always feel offended when being let wait. I cannot take a business partner seriously, if he is not even able to come in time.



> On the average he waisted about 25-30 of my working hours and 7-800 hours of other people's every year, that way.


Exactly. Is this acceptable for you? Probably your boss was a pretty big asshole not caring for others and just doing as it suited him best. Exactly this attitude makes others think bad about such people. I surely let no-one waste my time.

Kajjo


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## sarcie

Kajjo said:


> I am sure that in companies or universities I have never seen someone hugging or kissing for greeting. Personally, I would be highly irritated. I have only seen young girls -- and those who still want to feel young -- using hugging in Germany. I do not recommend it at all and in my environment I do not know a single person that likes that sort of greeting.



I work near the university here in Munich and have lots of uni-age friends and older (German and other) - we kiss on both cheeks as a greeting (girl -> boy, girl -> girl). Between them, the boys shake hands. This is one thing I had to get used to when I moved here, as in Ireland, it's generally limited to just one kiss on the cheek. Hugging is rare, I get bear hugs from one Irish friend and that's it. 

I think it's quite common to kiss on both cheeks as a greeting between friends, here at least. It's not usually done the first time you meet someone though, only between established friends/acquaintances. Obviously, I do not come into work every day and kiss my colleagues on the cheek - but I do when I meet them socially.


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## Calamitintin

Kajjo said:


> The younger and prettier the hugging-kissing girl is, the more forgiving the Germans probably are... ?
> 
> Kajjo


I just do it among friends, off course not with anyone I meet, especially adults!


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## Jeedade

Kajjo said:


> 3. Important: Do not promise anything you do not intend to keep, including invitations! Germans take you serious! Do not play with your reliability and dependability.


In addition to this important point, I would like to add an example:
In Italy, if you make an appointment a bit more distant in the future (say a week or more), it is customary to confirm that appointment again when the day comes near (say the night before, as in “are we still on for tomorrow?”), if not, the appointment sort of automatically “expires”, thus not showing up would be acceptable. In Germany this is definitely not the case, the appointment stands until information to the contrary is provided.

I am not German, but have lived in Germany for 7 years, and now live in Italy, so I think I know a bit what I am talking about. Correct me if I am wrong ! .


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## martinka! :)

Jeedade said:


> In addition to this important point, I would like to add an example:
> In Italy, if you make an appointment a bit more distant in the future (say a week or more), it is customary to confirm that appointment again when the day comes near (say the night before, as in “are we still on for tomorrow?”), if not, the appointment sort of automatically “expires”, thus not showing up would be acceptable. In Germany this is definitely not the case, the appointment stands until information to the contrary is provided.
> 
> I am not German, but have lived in Germany for 7 years, and now live in Italy, so I think I know a bit what I am talking about. Correct me if I am wrong ! .


 
Yes, in Italy the appointment would "expire". I mean, to re-call or write once more the evening before also helps to fix some important details about where to meet and so on. Because if one speaks in general about meeting, he doesn't generally mention a particular place where to meet, no?! These are things to discuss more concretely before the appointment, I find.. But maybe I am too italian! 
Here in Germany a nasty guy just kept writing me boring sms like "what are your doing?". Finally I decided to call him, just to have a normal conversation. He asked me to go out the week after, on thursday. I told him "yes" planning to find some last-minute-excuse (are the most convincing ones!). But then he didn't call anymore, even not on thursday evening -which I would have expected!-. I thought he would have forgotten. But he hadn't! We was somewhere in my Wohnheim looking for me, looking if I came to the bar there.. but without calling!!! (I would have go to that bar -at least for an hour or just to tell him I have headache-, if he had called me! I am not a bad person who just leave people waiting!). I found it very weird that he didn't call at all and he was very angry that I didn't go...!!!  Ups
I know, I have to change my way of being..  
The thing is, I also lived for a couple of years in Spain and the even bigger Unzuferlässigkeit of spanish people (they come even an hour too late without apologizing and it's practically impossibile to meet up in the city if you are not meeting some very good friends!) affected me very much. It's like a bad habit which is "in your chords" and that you soon assimilate! My mother is very upset with me and tells me there's no way out from my unpunctuality and bad planning!

...Quite a problem, expecially considering that my boyfriend here is very attached to these kind of values!!!...


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## martinka! :)

Kajjo said:


> 1. Be punctual! Don't ever let other people wait for you.
> 
> 2. Use formal address and surnames until invited to use first names (_Guten Morgen, Herr Meier!_). Do not expect this to happen at all in formal or business relations. Use Dr. titles if applicable. However, students and young people (<21) will probably start on first-name basis in _informal _settings.
> Kajjo


 

Well.. The strange thing is: my boyfriend's father told me I could call him by name. But the mother didn't say anything! So I never know what to do and mostly try to avoid direct forms! But sometimes I just say IHR to the both and hope that they think I'm not that good in the courtesy Sie-form!!! 
May I carry one calling the mother Frau Hüttl and the father Günther?????
*Schwierig*


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## martinka! :)

Wynn Mathieson said:


> Have a look at this site.
> 
> It concentrates on business etiquette, but contains a fair bit of advice about general manners and customs in Germany.
> 
> Wynn


 

Wow, this page is really useful!
Thank your very much..
M.


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## Sepia

Kajjo said:


> I am sure that in companies or universities I have never seen someone hugging or kissing for greeting. Personally, I would be highly irritated. I have only seen young girls -- and those who still want to feel young -- using hugging in Germany. I do not recommend it at all and in my environment I do not know a single person that likes that sort of greeting.
> 
> 
> Right.
> 
> 
> I did, and in business relations I know that punctuality is still regarded highly. Personally, I would have a very bad feeling if I let other people wait and I always feel offended when being let wait. I cannot take a business partner seriously, if he is not even able to come in time.
> 
> 
> Exactly. Is this acceptable for you? Probably your boss was a pretty big asshole not caring for others and just doing as it suited him best. Exactly this attitude makes others think bad about such people. I surely let no-one waste my time.
> 
> Kajjo



No, wasiting people's time is not acceptable. I don't do it if I can avoid it, and I don't tolerate it when others do so. And this boss showed inacceptable attitudes on other points. He, the top boss and a few others were kicked out as the shareholders finally started reacting. But that was not until several very good co-workers had left the company because auf them. 

There are situations where people can be un-punctual without really wasting more than their own time, and in Hamburg they usually are.

-----

What the hugging is concerned I also see that among colleagues - but not among business reations.


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## Laztana

Kajjo said:


> 1. Be punctual! Don't ever let other people wait for you.
> 
> 2. Use formal address and surnames until invited to use first names (_Guten Morgen, Herr Meier!_). Do not expect this to happen at all in formal or business relations. Use Dr. titles if applicable. However, students and young people (<21) will probably start on first-name basis in _informal _settings.
> 
> 3. Important: Do not promise anything you do not intend to keep, including invitations! Germans take you serious! Do not play with your reliability and dependability.
> 
> 4. Be tidy. Don't throw or put anything anywhere.
> 
> 5. Do not kiss or hug for greeting. A handshake is far enough, in informal situations a _Hallo_ is fine. Only young, female people sometimes hug as modern import -- many frown upon that new habit.
> 
> Vice versa: Do not expect too much small talk in business relations. Don't be offended if Germans are very direct and straight-forward in expressing their wishes, expectations and the abundance of rules.



I fully agree with Kajjo, word by word, or at least that is my personal experience not only in the street or offices but also at university. The hugging/kissing issue used to drive me crazy until I got used to it. I was shocked when people congratulated me for my birthday shaking my hand ! I guess they were also shocked when I tried kissing them, ha ha.
I also think that german people are very direct saying things and it is a bit hard not to feel offended sometimes, especially when you have just arrived and everyone sounds like telling you off all the time. Of course after a few days you realise that it is just the way they speak because german people are actually extremely kind and polite...at least with "young" foreign women .
I would also add that you should avoid being noisy and never cross the street if the traffic light is red for pedestrians.

Tschüss


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## Sepia

Laztana said:


> I fully agree with Kajjo, word by word, or at least that is my personal experience not only in the street or offices but also at university. The hugging/kissing issue used to drive me crazy until I got used to it. I was shocked when people congratulated me for my birthday shaking my hand ! I guess they were also shocked when I tried kissing them, ha ha.
> I also think that german people are very direct saying things and it is a bit hard not to feel offended sometimes, especially when you have just arrived and everyone sounds like telling you off all the time. Of course after a few days you realise that it is just the way they speak because german people are actually extremely kind and polite...at least with "young" foreign women .
> I would also add that you should avoid being noisy and never cross the street if the traffic light is red for pedestrians.
> 
> Tschüss



I would interest me to know if you are talking about experiences from within the past 10 years - and about where in Germany. 

I could not sign for the traffic-light part - OK you should respect them, but in Hamburg I see a growing disrespect for them and all the time dangerous situations arise. An I do not mean pedestrians only. I include drivers/riders of all kinds of vehicles.


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## sarcie

Laztana said:


> [...] and never cross the street if the traffic light is red for pedestrians.



This drives me *nuts* - I have actually been berated a handful of times on the street for crossing when the light was red, each time by a woman with a child. Now, I understand if you are trying to teach a child to wait until the light is green before crossing, it can be frustrating to watch others do it anyway. HOWEVER, firstly, I am an adult. I do not appreciate being "told off" as if I were a 5-year-old by a person I do not know. Secondly, when I cross the road at a red light, I look left, right and then left again, as my mother taught me as a child. 

The reason this really drives me up the wall is that at the bottom of my road, there is a pedestrian light - when this light is green, cars coming around the corner must yield to pedestrians, but if there are none on the crossing, the car may drive on. I almost saw a child get flattened one morning, because as soon as the light was green, she ran across the road without looking. I see this with a lot of (not all!) German children - they think that when the light is green, they cannot get run over. They can. There will always be one idiot thinking they can "catch" the end of an orange light. Children need to be taught that they must wait for the green light AND look both ways.


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## Kajjo

sarcie said:


> This drives me *nuts* - I have actually been berated a handful of times on the street for crossing when the light was red, each time by a woman with a child.


Honestly, this is the difference in cultures and people like you would drive me nuts! I regard it as unexcusable to pass by red if children are present. This is irresponsible and undermines all efforts to successfully teach children what you claim is necessary.



> HOWEVER, firstly, I am an adult. I do not appreciate being "told off" as if I were a 5-year-old by a person I do not know.


Yes, and the message is: Adults do not have to behave properly. Or what? They will be able to decide for themselves whether to keep rules or not. No, Sarcie, this is not the game in Germany. Rules are there to be obeyed. Period. I know, in other countries this is different and maybe rightly so, but not in Germany!



> Secondly, when I cross the road at a red light, I look left, right and then left again, as my mother taught me as a child.


When you cross by red, you commit red-running. They should take the driving license for such behaviour. Taking part in traffic should be treated equal no matter what vehicle you use or not use. You just cannot simply define your own rules. 



> Children need to be taught that they must wait for the green light AND look both ways.


That is what children are taught in Germany, but -- well --children are that way. You need to repeat and repeat and still some are somewhere else with their thoughts.

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

Sepia said:


> I could not sign for the traffic-light part - OK you should respect them, but in Hamburg I see a growing disrespect for them and all the time dangerous situations arise. An I do not mean pedestrians only. I include drivers/riders of all kinds of vehicles.


Well, the majority of Germans does respect traffic lights. There is a anarchic tendency predominantly by cyclers and some pedestrians, but the red respect is better than in any other country I know.

I believe this thread is about culture and desired behaviour in order not to offend or insult. Let us not discuss about exceptions and what might be acceptable, but about the default and accepted way to live and behave.

Kajjo


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## sarcie

Kajjo said:


> Honestly, this is the difference in cultures and people like you would drive me nuts! I regard it as unexcusable to pass by red if children are present. This is irresponsible and undermines all efforts to successfully teach children what you claim is necessary.



I knew that there would be a difference of opinion on this one, because as you say, it's a definite difference in cultures - my belief is to teach children both by saying AND by doing. If my children see me looking around carefully, being aware of my surroundings and being attentive to the situation, they will mimic my behaviour. That's how I teach, it's a personal choice. In my experience, children tend to follow the example of their parents rather than that of strangers on the street. 



> Yes, and the message is: Adults do not have to behave properly. Or what? They will be able to decide for themselves whether to keep rules or not. No, Sarcie, this is not the game in Germany. Rules are there to be obeyed. Period. I know, in other countries this is different and maybe rightly so, but not in Germany!



"Rules are there to be obeyed", but I don't think it's as black and white as you make out and there is a certain amount of wiggle-room in this case, in my opinion. I am aware that it is the law in Germany that you may not cross at a red light. However, I think that if the streets are empty and you can see clearly in both directions, it's ok to cross at a red light. It's a judgement call.

However, I don't think this really contributes to martinka's original question, so this is all I will say on the matter. Feel free to PM me if you have any other comments.


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## Setwale_Charm

Kajjo said:


> .
> 
> 5. Do not kiss or hug for greeting. A handshake is far enough, in informal situations a _Hallo_ is fine. Only young, female people sometimes hug as modern import -- many frown upon that new habit.
> 
> Kajjo


 

Can you tell me Kajjo why on earth life is so unfair and it is precisely the German men who are among the very few I am usually dying to hug that do not expect me to do so?!


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## Laztana

Sepia said:


> I would interest me to know if you are talking about experiences from within the past 10 years - and about where in Germany.
> 
> I could not sign for the traffic-light part - OK you should respect them, but in Hamburg I see a growing disrespect for them and all the time dangerous situations arise. An I do not mean pedestrians only. I include drivers/riders of all kinds of vehicles.


 
Hi,

I first visited Germany in 2005 (less than 10 years ago). I've lived several months in Aachen (I come back very often) and also moved around within the region (Köln, Düsseldorf etc) and the behaviour rules were the same. 

I also forgot to mention that not to sound rude it is recommended to add "bite" to any request (including a coffe with milk). For other people this might not be an issue but spanish people tend to forget about this kind of thing because we don't use the "please" so much.


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## Kajjo

Setwale_Charm said:


> Can you tell me Kajjo why on earth life is so unfair and it is precisely the German men who are among the very few I am usually dying to hug that do not expect me to do so?!


Unfortunately, I cannot.

You brought a new aspect into this discussion that is worth to be elaborated on: If German men are being hugged by foreign women, then there is always a sexual implication there. We are just not trained and raised in taking it as simple greeting (what it probably only is meant to be!) -- bodily contact, encouraged by girls is always intuitively interpreted as a sign of willingness or attraction. Thus, be careful not to hug and kiss people who you don't want to think you might like them.

Setwale, if you accidentally hug the guy you really like, you still have an good excuse then... and the message will probably be received! 

Kajjo


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## Jeedade

Other guidelines for Italians in Germany (from my own observations):

Queuing: wait your turn. Don’t try to enter the queue from the side. Do not try to pass the person in front of you, even if they seem to be leaving a gap.
Business meetings / conference calls: switch your mobile phone off. Do not take calls during meetings or conference calls. Wait your turn to speak. Speaking simultaneously with other people is not accepted.


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## Setwale_Charm

Kajjo said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot.
> 
> You brought a new aspect into this discussion that is worth to be elaborated on: If German men are being hugged by foreign women, then there is always a sexual implication there. We are just not trained and raised in taking it as simple greeting (what it probably only is meant to be!) -- bodily contact, encouraged by girls is always intuitively interpreted as a sign of willingness or attraction. Thus, be careful not to hug and kiss people who you don't want to think you might like them.
> 
> Setwale, if you accidentally hug the guy you really like, you still have an good excuse then... and the message will probably be received!
> 
> Kajjo


 
The tragic problem is, Kajjo, that whereas one has to be very careful with one words, glances, actions when dealing with many other nationalities, lest they should imagine you want to have anything to do with them,
German men never seem to get any subtle messages They expect one to put their concealed thoughts into plain offers, no sous-entendus!
And flirting with a German policeman can even get you into trouble as I have learnt. Hugging them is completely unadvisable!
 But I suppose you yourself never tried to attract a German man so this sort of suffering is completely unknown to you.


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## Setwale_Charm

Jeedade said:


> Other guidelines for Italians in Germany (from my own observations):
> 
> Queuing: wait your turn. Don’t try to enter the queue from the side. Do not try to pass the person in front of you, even if they seem to be leaving a gap.
> Business meetings / conference calls: switch your mobile phone off. Do not take calls during meetings or conference calls. Wait your turn to speak. Speaking simultaneously with other people is not accepted.


 
That`s about the first time I hear a Dutchman speaking about Germans without any poignancy


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## Kajjo

Jeedade said:


> Other guidelines for Italians in Germany (from my own observations):
> Queuing: wait your turn. Don’t try to enter the queue from the side. Do not try to pass the person in front of you, even if they seem to be leaving a gap.
> Business meetings / conference calls: switch your mobile phone off. Do not take calls during meetings or conference calls. Wait your turn to speak. Speaking simultaneously with other people is not accepted.


Well observed. Yes, you guidelines are perfectly matching!



			
				Setwale said:
			
		

> That`s about the first time I hear a Dutchman speaking about Germans without any poignancy




Kajjo


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## Kajjo

Setwale_Charm said:


> The tragic problem is [...] German men never seem to get any subtle messages. They expect one to put their concealed thoughts into plain offers.


 Well, you might be right. Probably I am quite German in this respect, too... 



> But I suppose you yourself never tried to attract a German man so this sort of suffering is completely unknown to you.


Indeed, yes.

Kajjo


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## Sepia

Kajjo said:


> Unfortunately, I cannot.
> 
> You brought a new aspect into this discussion that is worth to be elaborated on: If German men are being hugged by foreign women, then there is always a sexual implication there. We are just not trained and raised in taking it as simple greeting ...
> 
> Kajjo




Sexual implication!! Not necessarily, where I am at - foreign or not. 

Or I must have been ignorant about my in-law's and other relatives' sexual preferences all along. Maybe it is a North vs. South thing. Or big city vs. small town. 

Not that I find it OK to be greeted that way by anybody that I know, but that is a personal matter. I am adressed with "du" by most people, and do so myself, but there are exceptions where I don't accept that either.


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## Kajjo

Sepia said:


> Sexual implication!! Not necessarily, where I am at - foreign or not.  Or I must have been ignorant about my in-law's and other relatives' sexual preferences all along. Maybe it is a North vs. South thing. Or big city vs. small town.


Well, I guess relatives and in-laws are a different matter anyway. However, most families I know just say hello or shake hands. I hate being hugged or kissed for greeting and I believe that very many Germans do so as well. At least it is typically Un-German and only a very modern import of behaviour to do so. For me it's a girlish thing in Germany.

Kajjo


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## Setwale_Charm

Kajjo said:


> Well, you might be right. Probably I am quite German in this respect, too...
> 
> 
> Indeed, yes.
> 
> Kajjo


 

Kajjo, Kajjo, in accordance with the rules of the English language, you should have said : NO! Otherwise, we take it you HAVE tried But I hope we are all sufficiently tolerant and open-minded people here


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## Kajjo

Setwale_Charm said:


> Kajjo, Kajjo, in accordance with the rules of the English language, you should have said : NO! Otherwise, we take it you HAVE tried But I hope we are all sufficiently tolerant and open-minded people here


Hm, the logic is difficult to fathom for me. 

A: ...is unknown to you.
B: Yes, Indeed.

Is this really wrong?

Well, I am certain that you, and most others, draw the correct conclusions from my answer anyway.  That's why parents teach to always answer in full sentences:

_Yes, indeed, this is completely unknown to me._

Kajjo


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## Setwale_Charm

Kajjo said:


> Hm, the logic is difficult to fathom for me.
> 
> A: ...is unknown to you.
> B: Yes, Indeed.
> 
> Is this really wrong?
> 
> Well, I am certain that you, and most others, draw the correct conclusions from my answer anyway.  That's why parents teach to always answer in full sentences:
> 
> _Yes, indeed, this is completely unknown to me._
> 
> Kajjo


 
Sorry, I thought you meant you indeed have not tried to attract a German man.
Anyway, after I was diagnosed with old-age arthritis on the eve of my 31 birthday, I am not sure I have the right at all to make eyes at young German men. whether that is part of the culture or not.


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## Jeedade

Setwale_Charm said:


> That`s about the first time I hear a Dutchman speaking about Germans without any poignancy


Well, let's just say, my post probably said more about Italians than about Germans ...


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## heidita

Kajjo said:


> Honestly, this is the difference in cultures and people like you would drive me nuts! I regard it as inexcusable to pass by red if children are present. This is irresponsible and undermines all efforts to successfully teach children what you claim is necessary.


 
You would definitely go crazy in Spain, Kajjo, especially in Madrid, where people are absolutely uncivilized. Including me, I must admit. I adapted quite nicely.( I mean people do not simply park in "double line", no , nowadays there is a triple line!!) But I do not cross the road (here people cross the road anywhere, no red or green traffic light needed) when children are present. 

I am stunned to read this though:


> Secondly, when I cross the road at a red light, I look left, right and then left again, as my mother taught me as a child.


 
So your mother actually_ taught_ you to cross at a red light? And how to do it "correctly" ? Surprising.


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## heidita

Anyway, I agree with Kajjo's indications. Be punctual, don't kiss, don't hug, shake hands, never use the first name unless invited, be polite (bitte, danke schön), don't be noisy (I am sure I am the only happy German here in lovely good old *noisy* Madrid!!). 

On the other hand, you may be trustful. People don't take your "things". I have seen, here impossible to think of, baby-trolleys "parked" outside playgrounds, sort of _in line_, and none was even touched.

Important!! Don't drive "black" as we call in in German: do pay the bus ticket!! The fine is very high!!

Important too: the bill is always paid individually. Sharing bills, like here in Spain, is not done! In bars you will get your beer marked on your own Bier-Deckel. In restaurants usually people pay their own bill. This is very unusual for Spaniards and people consider Germans rather mean around here. But really, if you think of it, this avoids the typical "parasites" who NEVER pay. I don't know, if this has changed.  It hasn't in bars, the beer is always ticked on your own Bier-Deckel!


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## Laztana

heidita said:


> Important!! Don't drive "black" as we call in in German: do pay the bus ticket!! The fine is very high!!



What about the train tickets? I knew of plenty of german people who didn't buy tickets to go short distances between train stations in the city. I'm refering particularly to RE and RB trains.


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## Setwale_Charm

heidita said:


> So your mother actually_ taught_ you to cross at a red light? And how to do it "correctly" ? Surprising.


 

Here is a German speaking!!!


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## Sepia

Laztana said:


> What about the train tickets? I knew of plenty of german people who didn't buy tickets to go short distances between train stations in the city. I'm refering particularly to RE and RB trains.



Either they had a commuter card or they did not pay. Simple as that. 

____

As mentioned further up - don't hug a policeman. Of course not! Where would you do that? No, cop or security man should let anyone do that in most situations. 

But flirting? How on Earth did you guys get the idea you cannot flirt with a German cop as much as with any other cop in a Western democracy? Of course you can do it in such stupid manner that it is likely to be accepted as a positive gesture - like while being drunk, touching the person or so. But I've seen even guys flirting with male cops - no problem. Where do you have that from that it should be any different in Germany. 
Depends on the person. With an old East German (ex-DDR-)cop it might not be advisable, but would not even ask directions from one of them. So far I have only had the most stupid, obnoxious answers, when I did. But the rest of them must soon be out of service anyway.


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## Kajjo

Laztana said:


> What about the train tickets? I knew of plenty of german people who didn't buy tickets to go short distances between train stations in the city. I'm refering particularly to RE and RB trains.


No, that is very untypical. Most probably they had a flatrate covering these trips. Particularly trains (as opposed to the tube/subway) are checked quite regularly and the fines are huge. No, I simply cannot think that they were travelling illegally.

Kajjo


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## Setwale_Charm

Sepia said:


> But flirting? How on Earth did you guys get the idea you cannot flirt with a German cop as much as with any other cop in a Western democracy?


 This phrase deserves to become the slogan of the year. Defend the democracy!! In reality, it is determined by the freedom to flirt with policemen



Sepia said:


> Of course you can do it in such stupid manner that it is likely to be accepted as a positive gesture - like while being drunk, touching the person or so. But I've seen even guys flirting with male cops - no problem. Where do you have that from that it should be any different in Germany.


I have a serious question for you here , Sepia. Have you actually TRIED flirting with a German policeman even for the sake of Western democracy? that is why you have not heard about the law forbidding improper behaviour towards a policeman in duty, this law is still in force in Germany apparently. And you might get a severe punishment for that. In my case, for instance, the policemen derived clear pleasure from spanking me for this offence.


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## heidita

Setwale_Charm said:


> In reality, it is determined by the freedom to flirt with policemen


 
Indeed. 




> That is because you simply have not tried flirting with policemen and that is why you have not heard about the law forbidding improper behaviour towards a policeman in duty, this law is still in force in Germany apparently. And you might get a severe punishment for that. In my case, for instance, the policemen derived clear pleasure from spanking me for this offence.


 

Please, setwale, do not give the impression that all Germans are sadists. 

(I wanted to answer you , but no PM space available )


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## Setwale_Charm

I am now going to clear up some space. 

Oh they are not sadistic, they are just....well, this was unfair, they got double pleasure, first from flirting, secondly, (having treacherously not said a word about the prohibition to do so) from spanking my bottom... OK,OK, they were my friends. 

Mods, please, do not delete this, this gives the humankind a deep insight into the wickedness of the German soul


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## Kajjo

Setwale_Charm said:


> [...]that is why you have not heard about the law forbidding improper behaviour towards a policeman in duty, this law is still in force in Germany apparently.


I really do not like correcting you on such a deeply felt and highly important issue, but I can assure you that flirting with policemen is not prohibited in Germany, no matter whether they are on duty or not. Flirting does not include bodily advances or promises, of course, which in turn might be prosecuted.



> And you might get a severe punishment for that. In my case, for instance, the policemen derived clear pleasure from spanking me for this offence.


I would imagine the spanking was meant as _reward _not as _punishment_. Maybe you gave the wrong signals while flirting, or you lead us astray by omitting the mutual stimulation gained by his behaviour. I believe the policeman acted along democratic values and to the benefit of society, if not to both individuals involved.

Kajjo


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## Kajjo

martinka said:
			
		

> Well.. The strange thing is: my boyfriend's father told me I could call him by name. But the mother didn't say anything! So I never know what to do and mostly try to avoid direct forms! But sometimes I just say IHR to the both and hope that they think I'm not that good in the courtesy Sie-form!!! May I carry one calling the mother Frau Hüttl and the father Günther?????
> *Schwierig*


Hello Martinka,
sorry, I overlooked this question of yours. This is indeed a difficult situation which can only be cleared up in the individual family. There are husbands which "jump the shot" with girlfriends of their sons, and the mother would have liked to continue a little bit longer on formal terms.

My suggestion would actually be to explicitly say Frau Hüttl and Günther and see what happens. If the mother thinks her husband had switsched to "Du" for both of them, she will say so and you will know it -- nothing bad about that. Alternatively, ask your boyfriend what he thinks his mother will prefer, usually he will know or clear the situation up with his mother. No harm done either.

Kajjo


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## Laztana

Kajjo said:


> I would imagine the spanking was meant as _reward _not as _punishment_. Maybe you gave the wrong signals while flirting, or you lead us astray by omitting the mutual stimulation gained by his behaviour. I believe the policeman acted along democratic values and to the benefit of society, if not to both individuals involved.
> 
> Kajjo



Ha ha, I'm really enjoying this thread 

But I have to admit that it shows the tendency of foreigners living in Germany to complain about the "typical distant" behaviour of german people, often helped by certain types of individuals that I have only met in Germany and by the fact that german people often complain about themselves. As far as I know, that distant posture normally disappears after some time and one can get to know the german sense of humour which I quite like .
My experience with german policemen is actually quite good, once they kindly offered to carry my heavy luggage downstairs for me. Of course, I accepted


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## ireney

This thread has turned into very interesting and highly enjoyable collection of  chat and personal opinions' post. For the lateness in closing it I apologise.  If anyone wants to add a cultural insight to the thread please contact one of the moderators.


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## ireney

Note: I added Kajjo's post #45. I must be doing something wrong because I can't make it appear after my "thread closed" note with Kajjo's name as the original poster as I'd like it to appear. I will get to the bottom of this but I thought I should inform you in the meanwhile.


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