# Courage, restons !



## KaRiNe_Fr

Hello forum,

I want to translate those words, from a friend of mine: "Courage, restons !".
This is a reference to a famous quote from Louis XVI "Courage, fuyons !" using the symmetric meaning so I propose something like "come on, let's stay" (instead of "come on, let's run!"). But I'm not really satisfied.
Thanks in advance for your help.


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## Cath.S.

Il ne me vient que quelque chose d'assez littéral :
_Let's be brave and stay on._
Il faudrait connaître la traduction officielle de cette citation historique.


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## jann

Hello Karine 

It's funny... for me, I read a certain degree of deliberate and ironic contradiciton in "Courage, fuyons!" so I might rather translate it as "Courage, we flee!"  It seems to me that this preserves the tone better than "come on, let's run" (which you could hear any day of the week on playgrounds everywhere )

So "Courage, restons!" would then be "Courage, we stay!"  

But perhaps I am mistaken.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Hello jann 
You're right, actually "come on, let's run" is too common. 
Could you explain why you chose "we stay" instead of "let's stay"? I'm sure there is a subtlety I don't get there...

Thanks egueule, I can always count on you. I guess the "on" at the end makes the sentence more certain, am I right?


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## jann

hi Karine,

In AE at least, the "let's" construction is somehow gentle and suggestive, less commanding... perhaps because the speaker is explicitly included, or perhaps just by habit because we commonly use 1st person "let's do X" to soften what should really be 3rd person ("do X!") commands.

Saying "we stay!" instead of "let's stay" is thus much more authoritative (there is no possibility for negotiation; the decision is made), and it is much less common in modern English.  It sounds positively old, or at least literary (or military).  This is why, in my ears, it rings better as a translation.  

I hope that's clear...  but as egueule said, the official translation might be different yet.  I would be interested to see it 

PS.  "to stay on" might be more common in BE than it is in AE, but I personally would leave it off because the added syllable ("on") is unaccented at the end of the sentence (emphasis still on "stay") making the sentence sound weaker and less decisive when spoken aloud.  To me, the meaning is hardly affected.


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## RocketGirl

I like egueule's "stay on"...it makes me think of "carry on", which might be a good translation.

I also like Jann's thought process here, but I'm still not fond of the word "courage" as a translation for the French "courage".

I'm thinking something like: "Be brave now and carry on", although that excludes the speaker. To rectify that we could say "We will be brave and carry on", or even better maybe "We will be brave and soldier on" or maybe even better still "We will be brave and stay the course".


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Thanks RocketGirl. I understand brave and courage have a different meaning. And I understand the soldier (good little one?) part you want to introduce.
I just thought you could have a similar expression in your culture, a famous quote from a famous man, expressing the cowardliness, that you should turn the other way round to create a new one like the one in French. (am I clear?)


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## Coppers

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Hello jann
> You're right, actually "come on, let's run" is too common.
> Could you explain why you chose "we stay" instead of "let's stay"? I'm sure there is a subtlety I don't get there...
> 
> Thanks egueule, I can always count on you. I guess the "on" at the end makes the sentence more certain, am I right?


I don't know, Karine, but 'stay' and 'stay on' are slightly different in meaning, as 'stay on' has the idea of perseverance. We'd have to know the exact context that your friend spoke these words to be sure of which English expression to use.


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## RocketGirl

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> I just thought you could have a similar expression in your culture, a famous quote from a famous man, expressing the cowardliness, that you should turn the other way round to create a new one like the one in French. (am I clear?)


 
You are perfectly clear Karine, as always   Without doing any research whatsoever (I really should but I'm just too lazy right now, I'm sorry), I want to say "We shall stay the course".

To me, this includes the word "courage", which I don't think has a perfect translation for this context.  The use of the word "shall" instead of "will" makes it a little more litterary/formal/poetic I think.


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## Cath.S.

Coppers said:


> I don't know, Karine, but 'stay' and 'stay on' are slightly different in meaning, as 'stay on' has the idea of perseverance. We'd have to know the exact context that your friend spoke these words to be sure of which English expression to use.


Hi Coppers,

I agree we need more context. 

We also need to know the official translation of Louis 16th's quote, if it exists, it would make the translation of the opposite sentence much easier, and more relevant.

The king said it in june 1791, just before his attempt to flee France, that episode of French history is known as _the flight to Varennes,_ that's the name of the place where he was recognized and arrested.


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## jann

> I just thought you could have a similar expression in your culture, a famous quote from a famous man, expressing the cowardliness


That would be "A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!" (Shakespeare, Richard III, see here and here).  

Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to turn this inside out and transform it into an encouragement!!


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## RocketGirl

I like the word "persevere" Coppers, and if I'm not mistaken that's exactly what Karine is getting at.

Karine, what about "We must persevere in the face of adversity" ? (or something along those lines)

*Edit*: Hmmm... on second thought I still like "We shall stay the course". To "stay the course" is a beautiful expression which means persevere.


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## Cath.S.

> That would be "A horse! a horse! my kingdom for a horse!" (Shakespeare, Richard III, see here and here).
> 
> Unfortunately, it's a bit harder to turn this inside out and transform it into an encouragement!!


_My kingdom for a_ legless _horse?_


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Coppers said:


> I don't know, Karine, but 'stay' and 'stay on' are slightly different in meaning, as 'stay on' has the idea of perseverance. We'd have to know the exact context that your friend spoke these words to be sure of which English expression to use.


Ok, let's take a totally fictive example in order to not reveal my private life. 
A- "Tu te rends comptes ? Ils ont mis à la porte Duschmoll hier ! On devrait peut-être tous le suivre comme un seul homme, et démissionner de cette entreprise, non ?"
B- "Non, je préconise la réaction inverse : «*Courage, restons !*»"
Is it of any help, Coppers?
This means B recommend to "resist" the temptation to quit even if the atmosphere might become nasty into this company. This could be considered as an act of bravery in a way even if at first sight it is cowardliness.
This makes me think of another proposal: "Let's be heroic: stay on!" (hum, not sure it works...)


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## Cath.S.

I really like Rocket Girl's idea, "We shall stay the course"_, _ I think it matches your context, Karine.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Ok, so "We shall stay the course" from RocketGirl is adopted. My only reproach (if any): it doesn't sound as catchy as the French sentence, for once. 
Thank you all!


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## Cath.S.

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Ok, so "We shall stay the course" from RocketGirl is adopted. My only reproach (if any): it doesn't sound as catchy as the French sentence, for once.
> Thank you all!


_My_ only problem is that it is not a take off of any famous quote.


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## watergirl

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Ok, so "We shall stay the course" from RocketGirl is adopted. My only reproach (if any): it doesn't sound as catchy as the French sentence, for once.
> Thank you all!



The only (huge, in my opinion!)  problem with this version is that it rings too much like the Bush refrain, "we shall stay the course" concerning the tragedy in Iraq.  (Google it to see that it has become a much discussed phrase.)


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## Cath.S.

watergirl said:


> The only (huge, in my opinion!) problem with this version is that it rings too much like the Bush refrain, "we shall stay the course" concerning the tragedy in Iraq. (Google it to see that it has become a much discussed phrase.)


Oh mince, je dois être bien fatiguée parce que j'ai lu cette citation des centaines de fois au bas mot... mais dans un contexte différent, bien sûr, c'est comme lorsque l'on rencontre sa boulangère au cinéma, on ne la reconnaît pas toujours du premier coup. 
Non, il n'est pas absolument nécessaire de citer ce monsieur. Àma, en tous cas.
Il faut trouver impérativement autre chose.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> [...]My only reproach [...]





egueule said:


> _My_ only problem [...]





watergirl said:


> The only (huge, in my opinion!)  problem [...]



Ok, then... too many reproaches now! courage, restons !


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## Nicomon

Mon petit effort... sur le modèle de la suggestion d'egueule. 

"Let's take heart, and not surrender"


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## watergirl

Building on your very good suggestion nicomon, I think I would shift it a bit to, "Don't lose heart..." for "courage!" here.


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## RocketGirl

Boy, you guys are hard to please . I personally loathe basing sentences on WR around google searches, but I'm afraid the damage has been done.

I understand your context Karine, so might I suggest a less poetic "Stick it out". Or, not a direct translation, but keeping in the spirit of your context, "Chin up. Don't quit on account of me/this"


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## charlie2

egueule said:


> _My_ only problem is that it is not a take off of any famous quote.


Perhaps "March on and fear not the path of Life" ?
From :
March on and fear not the thorns or the stones on Life's Path - Kahlil Gibran


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## RocketGirl

Interesting Charlie2...now you've got me thinking that the Bible is always good for an inspirational quote.

Yes... I've just had a look and there are heaps of biblical references we could use. Here's one from genesis 19:17 "escape to the mountain, lest thou be consumed". We could turn that into something like "Escape not and be thou not consumed". 

This is just an idea though.... it might get some creative juices flowing.


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## Cath.S.

charlie2 said:


> Perhaps "March on and fear not the path of Life" ?
> From :
> March on and fear not the thorns or the stones on Life's Path - Kahlil Gibran


That's beautiful, and I'd be very disappointed if someone told us GWB or a similar type also said it.  
Un peu trop solennel, peut-être...


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## Nicomon

watergirl said:


> Building on your very good suggestion nicomon, I think I would shift it a bit to, "Don't lose heart..." for "courage!" here.


 
Thanks watergirl.  I initially suggested the positive "let's take heart", because of 1st person plural "restons".

Would this work?
*Let's not lose heart. We will not surrender.*

Somehow... I prefer "take heart". But then, I'm thinking like a francophone.


Edit: I guess GWB could have said that one too.


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## RocketGirl

How about this one from Matthew Chapter 5 vs 44 "But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;"

Don't know how to turn that one around... it pretty much says it all.

Anyway I'm not even religious, so don't think I'm trying to push the bible here, I'm just on a mission that's spinning wildly out of control.

Why can't we use "stay the course" again?


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## Nicomon

How about Sir Winston Churchill, mixed with something else?

Let's be brave/take heart... and never, never, never quit.


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## charlie2

egueule said:


> ...Un peu trop solennel, peut-être...


It has to be, to be fit for a king (fleeing or not)  .


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## Punky Zoé

Désolée pour cette incidente (incidente, pas parallèle ), n'étant pas assez équipée pour concourir avec vous en langue anglaise (mais je suis avec attention vos échanges), je voulais simplement dire que le "courage, restons", initial et historiquement référencé de Karine me faisait penser au non moins historique mais aussi boulevardier "j'y suis, j'y reste".


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## Nicomon

Punky Zoé said:


> je voulais simplement dire que le "courage, restons", initial et historiquement référencé de Karine me faisait penser au non moins historique mais aussi boulevardier "j'y suis, j'y reste".


 
J'aime bien.  Je crois qu'en anglais ce serait:

Here I am. Here I stay.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

PZ, tu as entièrement raison ! "J'y suis, j'y reste !" ("here I am, here I stay" seems perfect to me Nico). Comment ne l'ai-je pas mentionné avant ? La phrase française doit bien être un mélange de  ces deux phrases (avec "courage, fuyons !"). Merci pour ce commentaire très utile. 
J'aime bien aussi la partie "never, never, [never] quit" proposée par Nico, accrocheuse et historique aussi.  Mais ça reste un peu long (même avec un "never" en moins)...


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## Coppers

In the context that Karine has given, I suggest we take part of one of Rocket Girl's suggestions so that we have:

Chin up.. we're staying put.


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## Kelly B

You've already hit most of the good ideas for vocabulary, I think, so I'll just address structure: I think an 18th century king would have said_ let us....
_Take heart, and let us remain. (or whichever synonyms you prefer.)


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## Nicomon

Kelly is right. An 18th century king would not have said let's. And probably not "stay put" either.  And I like her solution too.  

So far, in no particular order of preference, I like:

Here I am. Here I stay. (d'après la suggestion de PZ)
Let us take heart and let us remain.
We shall stay the course. (But GWB said it too. See post #18)

et j'en ajoute une dernière... 

*Resist. Never, never quit.* (Ça c'est pour toi KaRiNe. Je me suis réveillée avec en tête le film « On connait la chanson »  )


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## Amityville

I like all those, Nicomon and although they don't reference well-known quotes they do sound as if they might. I've no objection to the GWB one either, it's just big man talk like the others. I also like Karine's heroic one. There is an element of bathos in "restons !" isn't there ? "Be a hero - don't go anywhere !"
I can think of several literary exhortations to courage but none that are concise enough "Stiffen up the sinews, summon up the blood - and stay where you are" "We shall not flag nor fail, and we shall do nothing conspicuous."
Ignore those, I was just trying them out. No, I vote for your last effort, Nicomon but "Never, ever quit" would work too if that finds more favour ?


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## Nicomon

Amityville said:


> No, I vote for your last effort, Nicomon but "Never, ever quit" would work too if that finds more favour ?


 
Thanks Amity. " Never, *ever* quit" definitely finds my favour. With "Resist" before, to translate Courage.


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## JamesM

What about "Take heart, and take a stand"?  It's symmetrical in a way, and I think it retains a little of the flavor of the original.

Another possibility might be: "Stand up and stand them down!"  It has a defiant, strong ring to it, if I may say so myself.


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## Nicomon

Amityville said:


> I like all those, Nicomon and although they don't reference well-known quotes they do sound as if they might.


 
Incidentally, "Resist. Never, *n*ever quit" was an attempted reference to Sir Winston Churchill's famous quote, with 3 "never".  



> What about "Take heart, and take a stand"? It's symmetrical in a way, and I think it retains a little of the flavor of the original.
> 
> Another possibility might be: "Stand up and stand them down!" It has a defiant, strong ring to it, if I may say so myself


 
James, I believe "Take heart and take a stand" could work. However "Stand up and stand them down" sounds a little *too* strong and defiant to my francophone ears.


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## JamesM

Nicomon said:


> Incidentally, "Resist. Never, *n*ever quit" was an attempted reference to Sir Winston Churchill's famous quote, with 3 "never".
> 
> 
> 
> James, I believe "Take heart and take a stand" could work. However "Stand up and stand them down" sounds a little *too* strong and defiant to my francophone ears.


 
You're probably right.  "Stand them down", though, is an interesting phrase in English. It implies that through your bold act of simply holding your position and not backing down you will demoralize the opposition to the point where they back down. That's why I proposed it.


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## Qcumber

jann said:


> Saying "we stay!" instead of "let's stay" is thus much more authoritative (there is no possibility for negotiation; the decision is made), and it is much less common in modern English. It sounds positively old, or at least literary (or military).


I wasn't aware of that.
To me "Go!", "We go!", "Let's go." and "Shall we go?" just belong to different pragmatic strategies. None is old-fashioned. It all depends on what circumstances you are in.


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## Nicomon

JamesM said:


> You're probably right.  "Stand them down", though, is an interesting phrase in English. It implies that through your bold act of simply holding your position and not backing down you will demoralize the opposition to the point where they back down. That's why I proposed it.


 
Thanks for the explanation James. Now I get it. I had a totally different image in mind, as in "force them down to the ground"


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## LaurentK

JamesM said:


> What about "Take heart, and take a stand"? It's symmetrical in a way, and I think it retains a little of the flavor of the original.


 
I agree, but you are modest, I think that it retains more than a little of the flavor of the original, and I love the sound of it... heart, stand. It needs heart, _avoir du coeur_, to stay, to fight against wilting or discouragement, against the urge to run away or to lie down: take heart and take a stand  

My comment on the original, _courage, fuyons! _would be that it sometimes takes even more courage and maturity to run away from a battle you cannot win _une bataille_ _perdue d'avance_... _Courage, fuyons!_ courage to lose face, here, but to keep forces for a more valuable battle, there, on another field?


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## Cath.S.

LaurentK said:


> I
> 
> My comment on the original, _courage, fuyons! _would be that it sometimes takes even more courage and maturity to run away from a battle you cannot win _une bataille_ _perdue d'avance_... _Courage, fuyons!_ courage to lose face, here, but to keep forces for a more valuable battle, there, on another field?


Iagree with your interpretation Laurent, the fact is that when Louis the 16th said that sentence, he was fleeing and doing so at great risk, as in a way it would have been much easier fior him to stay pit and keep on pretending he agreed with ongoing events, when he had in fact become totally powerless.


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## geve

JamesM said:


> What about "Take heart, and take a stand"?


I like it too  I think it fits well in Karine's context.



egueule said:


> Iagree with your interpretation Laurent, the fact is that when Louis the 16th said that sentence, he was fleeing and doing so at great risk, as in a way it would have been much easier fior him to stay pit and keep on pretending he agreed with ongoing events, when he had in fact become totally powerless.


Néanmoins, dans le langage courant, quand on parle d'une attitude à la "courage, fuyons" (comme on dirait une attitude façon "après moi le déluge"), c'est plutôt pour évoquer la lâcheté, la fuite comme solution de facilité... non ?

"Après moi le déluge" : ça me fait penser, il y a peut-être une piste à creuser par là... je vais ouvrir un fil !


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## Cath.S.

> Néanmoins, dans le langage courant, quand on parle d'une attitude à la "courage, fuyons" (comme on dirait une attitude façon "après moi le déluge"), c'est plutôt pour évoquer la lâcheté, la fuite comme solution de facilité... non ?


Bonsoir Gève. 

J'ai fourni cette explication justement parce que je pense que le sens originel a sombré dans l'oubli.
Et aussi parce qu'au fond de moi, je pense que l'on peut aussi rester par lâcheté, même lorsqu'on n'est pas roi de France. 



> JamesM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about "Take heart, and take a stand"?
> 
> 
> 
> I like it too  I think it fits well in Karine's context.
Click to expand...

_Leaving _can also be a way of taking a stand, though, can't it?


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## geve

egueule said:


> Et aussi parce qu'au fond de moi, je pense que l'on peut aussi rester par lâcheté, même lorsqu'on n'est pas roi de France.


Absolument. Je ne doute pas qu'il n'y ait une part de lâcheté dans nombre de décisions que nous prenons en croyant faire preuve de courage. 


egueule said:


> _Leaving _can also be a way of taking a stand, though, can't it?


Certes, mais dans le contexte de Karine, les collègues ont choisi de rester, non ?


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## Cath.S.

geve said:


> Certes, mais dans le contexte de Karine, les collègues ont choisi de rester, non ?


Ce que je veux dire, c'est que la traduction proposée par James, quoi que très bonne, est tout de même moins explicite.


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## geve

egueule said:


> Ce que je veux dire, c'est que la traduction proposée par James, quoi que très bonne, est tout de même moins explicite.


Ak, ok, je vois ce que tu veux dire. La force de "Courage, restons" réside dans le fait qu'elle porte historiquement une connotation de lâcheté (que celle-ci soit réelle ou supposée); ce qui n'est pas le cas de la phrase de James... c'est ça ?


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## Cath.S.

geve said:


> Ak, ok, je vois ce que tu veux dire. La force de "Courage, restons" réside dans le fait qu'elle porte historiquement une connotation de lâcheté (que celle-ci soit réelle ou supposée); ce qui n'est pas le cas de la phrase de James... c'est ça ?


Non, ce que je veux dire c'est que l'on pourrait avoir :
_Take a stand and walk out_
aussi bien que
_take a stand and stay._


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## geve

egueule said:


> Non, ce que je veux dire c'est que l'on pourrait avoir :
> _Take a stand and walk out_
> aussi bien que
> _take a stand and stay._


Ok...  Je comprends vite, quand on m'explique patiemment.  Merci pour ta patience, donc !

Alors, pourquoi pas tout simplement, "take heart, and stay" ? On perd la symétrie, certes...  "Take heart, stay put" ?


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## Nicomon

geve said:


> Alors, pourquoi pas tout simplement, "take heart, and stay" ? On perd la symétrie, certes...  "Take heart, stay put" ?


 
KaRiNe peut se vanter d'avoir initié quelques uns des plus longs posts de WR.  àma, le problème est que "stay put" fait un peu plus langage de tous les jours. 
Et mon _never, never quit_ (#29 et 36), en référence à Sir Winston Churchill... vous ne l'aimez pas? J'en étais pourtant si fière.  

KaRiNe a aimé...elle (mais un peu long, qu'elle a dit)


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## JamesM

I just ran into another saying today, "No surrender, no retreat!" This may have a similar feeling to what you're looking for.

I have to agree that "stay put" has no grand ring to it. 

As for "taking a stand" possibly meaning "to leave", this is not possible at all in a military context.  A unit that takes a stand holds it until they are victorious, dead or ordered by a higher command to leave.  It's a serious commitment.


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## Nicomon

JamesM said:


> I just ran into another saying today, "No surrender, no retreat!" This may have a similar feeling to what you're looking for.


 
I like that one.   I made a weak attempt ealier, using "surrender", but this is much better.  The minor problem I see is that we're missing the "courage" bit.


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## geve

Nicomon said:


> KaRiNe peut se vanter d'avoir initié quelques uns des plus longs posts de WR.  àma, le problème est que "stay put" fait un peu plus langage de tous les jours.
> Et mon _never, never quit_ (#29 et 36), en référence à Sir Winston Churchill... vous ne l'aimez pas? J'en étais pourtant si fière.
> 
> KaRiNe a aimé...elle (mais un peu long, qu'elle a dit)


Mais si, j'aime bien aussi ! Je ne suis pas la femme d'une seule maxime ! 

I like "No surrender, no retreat" too. 

Je comprends que le registre de "stay put" ne colle pas. Mais il y avait dedans une idée d'immobilisme qui me plaisait, de courage pas très actif tout de même, puisqu'il s'agit de ne rien changer. "Take heart, stand still"...?


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## carolineR

RocketGirl said:


> I want to say "We shall stay the course".
> [...]The use of the word "shall" instead of "will" makes it a little more litterary/formal/poetic I think.





KaRiNe_Fr said:


> I just thought you could have a similar expression in your culture, a famous quote from a famous man, expressing the cowardliness, that you should turn the other way round to create a new one like the one in French.





egueule said:


> _My_ only problem is that it is not a take off of any famous quote.





Nicomon said:


> How about Sir Winston Churchill, mixed with something else?


I'm trying to reconcile all these points of view, which I agree with... Maybe you natives could twist something out of Churchill's "We shall not flag nor fail." ?


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## Qcumber

carolineR said:


> Maybe you natives could twist something out of Churchill's "We shall not flag nor fail." ?


As a bilingual, I think I'm allowed to offer my try: 
Nous ne faiblirons ni ne faillirons.


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## Cath.S.

Qcumber said:


> As a bilingual, I think I'm allowed to offer my try:
> Nous ne faiblirons ni ne faillirons.


Personne ne met en doute ta compétence, Qcumber, mais je te rappelle que nous sommes à la recherche d'une expresssion _anglaise_.


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## JamesM

Here's a possibility, a quote from The Lord of The Rings (slightly edited):

_Aragorn: Hold your ground, hold your ground.  A day may come when the courage of men fails, ... but it is not this day._

This has a very powerful impact in English.  I know it's much longer than your original, but I think it captures much of the same spirit. (This has turned into quite a project.  I keep looking for possibilities.  Thanks for the pleasant task!)


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Ça devient dur de faire mon choix parmi les propositions toutes plus intéressantes les unes des autres que vous donnez ! 
Merci spécial à Caro pour sa proposition en forme de synthèse, à Qcumber pour sa proposition en français p), à Nico pour ses toujours bonnes idées, à egueule et Gève pour leurs échanges éclairants, à Laurent pour son interprétation de l'original, et à James qui trouve des citations intéressantes et continue à en chercher !
Vous avez tous beaucoup de courage : restez !


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## Qcumber

egueule said:


> Personne ne met en doute ta compétence, Qcumber, mais je te rappelle que nous sommes à la recherche d'une expresssion _anglaise_.


Oops, sorry.


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## Qcumber

JamesM said:


> No surrender, no retreat!


If you replace "no" by "but", you get a good equivalent of what Louis XVI meant. Plus a pun on the double meaning of "no_but".
*No surrender, but retreat.*


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## JamesM

Qcumber said:


> If you replace "no" by "but", you get a good equivalent of what Louis XVI meant. Plus a pun on the double meaning of "no_but".
> *No surrender, but retreat.*


 
I must not understand the situation or the quote at all.  Can you explain the circumstances surrounding "Courage, restons!"?  I think I've been shooting for the wrong thing all along.


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## Coppers

Karine's explanation is one page one:


KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Ok, let's take a totally fictive example in order to not reveal my private life.
> A- "Tu te rends comptes ? Ils ont mis à la porte Duschmoll hier ! On devrait peut-être tous le suivre comme un seul homme, et démissionner de cette entreprise, non ?"
> B- "Non, je préconise la réaction inverse : «*Courage, restons !*»"
> Is it of any help, Coppers?
> This means B recommend to "resist" the temptation to quit even if the atmosphere might become nasty into this company. This could be considered as an act of bravery in a way even if at first sight it is cowardliness.
> This makes me think of another proposal: "Let's be heroic: stay on!" (hum, not sure it works...)


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## KaRiNe_Fr

JamesM said:


> I must not understand the situation or the quote at all.  Can you explain the circumstances surrounding "Courage, restons!"?  I think I've been shooting for the wrong thing all along.


Don't worry James, I guess you're on the right tracks since the beginning.
Another proposal just popped my mind: "let's be heroic : don't move!" (but sounds weird... and no historical reference...)


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## mgarizona

Wow, that all took some catching up with.

My first question would be, as I believe egueule asks at one point, what would be the proper Englishing of Louis Capet's remark.

Setting my mind as best I can to a properly eighteenth century mood, I'm thinking "Courage, we fly."

'Fly' was often used in the sense of 'flee,' as here from Alexander Pope's translation of the Illiad, 1720: "Hence on thy Life, and fly these hostile Plains."

Now I'm sure it's a more modern mood of mind which contrasts 'flight' with 'fight'--- as in 'fight or flight responses'--- but that suggests on anti-Louis-ization of:

Courage, we fight!

I'm guessing Karine might find that _too_ violent, so suggest moderating it down to:

Courage, we stand!

The OED offers this from 1759: "M. Conflans had two choices, either to fly, or to stand and fight it out."

Any help?


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## JamesM

"Courage, we stand!" works pretty well, in my opinion.  The only difference is that in military settings the first person plural is not usually used.  It sounds more natural to my US English ears to say, "Take heart, and stand your ground!"


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## mgarizona

JamesM said:


> "Courage, we stand!" works pretty well, in my opinion. The only difference is that in military settings the first person plural is not usually used. It sounds more natural to my US English ears to say, "Take heart, and stand your ground!"


 
I don't believe a military setting is in question. Citizen Capet had no army to command.

A humorous variation occurs to me:

Courage, we fly!
Courage, we nest!


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## KaRiNe_Fr

mgarizona said:


> [...]
> Courage, we nest!


J'aime !  C'est presque aussi court et efficace que l'original et ça a le même nombre de syllabes !  
Est-ce qu'un anglophone ferait tout de suite le rapprochement entre fly et nest ? 
(parce que j'avoue que moi, sans voir les deux phrases à côté, je n'aurais sûrement pas compris l'humour...)


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## Hakro

Wow! So many wonderful suggestions that it must be painful to choose only one.

I agree with Coppers, my favourite too is Rocket Girl's "Chin up. Don't quit..."

My version would be the words of Antti Rokka, one of the heroes of the most popular Finnish war novel (translated in many languages):

"Chin up. If we don't quit whatever it will be, what can they do?"


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## Coppers

Yes - or "Come on - stay" also works for me, there are some more similarities with this.


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## clodo

I think everyone is having so much trouble with this one because the original is obviously very ironic.  The normal thing one might imagine would be a general or Henry V or someone exhorting his men: 'Be brave lads.  We shall stay here and hold the fort.'  So when Louis says: 'Be brave, let's get out of here.' it comes across as  very humorous.  But by trying to translate the exact opposite and still keep the irony, we are trying to do the impossible because the opposite is of course the standard, non-ironic thing for someone trying to rally their forces to say: 'Be brave lads, we shall hold the fort."   (Et je suis tout à fait d'accord, nous ne voulons surtout pas imiter George Bush).


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## mgarizona

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> J'aime !  C'est presque aussi court et efficace que l'original et ça a le même nombre de syllabes !
> Est-ce qu'un anglophone ferait tout de suite le rapprochement entre fly et nest ?
> (parce que j'avoue que moi, sans voir les deux phrases à côté, je n'aurais sûrement pas compris l'humour...)


 
Hard to imagine that one would immediately associate 'nest' with 'fly,' because "Courage, we fly" is not a set expression in English. On the other hand I'd say the humor is there simply in that "we nest" is an odd thing to say, and especially in that it is probably the last thing one would expect to hear following an exhortation to 'Courage!'

Because Louis' _Courage, fuyons_ is not, for anglophones, a famous expression, no variation on it (or on a translation of it) is going to immediately call it to mind.


By the way, I'm remembering that someone in this thread suggested the line "A horse, a horse, my kingdom for a horse" is some sort of expression of cowardice. Richard Crookback was many things, but I don't think you could say he was a coward. He wants a horse so he can rejoin the fray, not to flee from it. Just before Richard says that line a confederate declares:

_The king enacts more wonders than a man_
_Daring an opposite to every danger:_
_His horse is slain, and all on foot he fights,_
_Seeking for Richmond in the throat of death._

(Richmond being Henry Tudor, who will kill Richard shortly and become Henry VII.)


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## clairet

building on what's gone before, I hope...(for courage, fuyons)

"take heart and flee to fight another day" (e.g Dunkirk; and Duncan's sons in MacBeth say something like this - "Let's away, our tears are not yet brewed" when they discover their father has ben murdered).


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## geve

mgarizona said:


> Hard to imagine that one would immediately associate 'nest' with 'fly,' because "Courage, we fly" is not a set expression in English. On the other hand I'd say the humor is there simply in that "we nest" is an odd thing to say, and especially in that it is probably the last thing one would expect to hear following an exhortation to 'Courage!'


J'aime bien l'idée moi aussi : _we __nest_ évoque bien l'idée que c'est un courage limité en fait, que ce courage est en fait teinté de lâcheté, c'est un courage de confort et d'immobilisme... ce que la phrase originale de Karine évoque (à mon sens) par association avec la citation historique royale.


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## JamesM

There is a saying in English, "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day."

I don't know if that applies to "Courage! Fuyons!" or not, but it is, at least, a known saying.


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## Cath.S.

One point needs emphasizing: Louis 16th meant, when he said courage fuyons, that_ staying_ would have been cowardly. 



			
				Geve said:
			
		

> Posté par *mgarizona*
> Hard to imagine that one would immediately associate 'nest' with 'fly,' because "Courage, we fly" is not a set expression in English. On the other hand I'd say the humor is there simply in that "we nest" is an odd thing to say, and especially in that it is probably the last thing one would expect to hear following an exhortation to 'Courage!'
> 
> 
> 
> 
> J'aime bien l'idée moi aussi : _we __nest_ évoque bien l'idée que c'est un courage limité en fait, que ce courage est en fait teinté de lâcheté, c'est un courage de confort et d'immobilisme... ce que la phrase originale de Karine évoque (à mon sens) au mien également par association avec la citation historique royale.
Click to expand...

J'aime aussi beaucoup _courage, we nest._ L'ennui, avec _courage restons,_ est que cette expression nécessite à tout prix la référence historique, sinon elle perd toute saveur, se réduisant à une simple exhortation à la résistance.


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## geve

egueule said:


> J'aime aussi beaucoup _courage, we nest._ L'ennui, avec _courage restons,_ est que cette expression nécessite à tout prix la référence historique, sinon elle perd toute saveur, se réduisant à une simple exhortation à la résistance.


D'accord avec toi. C'est ce que j'ai dit à Karine au début : ce "courage, restons" est beaucoup trop subtil, en fait !


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