# Reporting a moderator



## portumania

I created a thread and a moderator closed it. When I asked him the reason in a private message he gave a very rude and cocky answer... How can I report a moderator? How I know who is superior to him?


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## ampurdan

Hi Portumania,

You can report his or her closing note or any post of him in the forum. The other moderators will discuss his or her action and decide what's best. You can also contact another moderator of the forum via PM.

If you think it is something really serious or there are no more moderators for that forum, you can contact the administrator (Mike Kellogg, nick: mkellogg) about this issue. He usually lets the mod team decide about issues such as what threads should be closed and the like, though.

You might already know it and you actually have not explicitly tried to do so, but just in case I'd like to add that we cannot discuss particular incidents in this forum.


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## almostfreebird

Is there something like open impeachment trial?


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## ampurdan

No. 

Moderators discuss issues in a civilized manner. We expose our views and generally we reach a consensus as to what is to be done.

Of course, the Administrator can decide to remove a moderator from "duty".


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## jann

ampurdan said:


> You can report his or her closing note or any post of him in the forum.




I just want to make sure this was clear:  if you have a complaint about a way a moderator dealt with your thread, or about a private message that you received from a moderator, *"reporting" the problem is the first, best thing to do.
* 
This is the report triangle: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





It appears in the top right corner of every post on the forum and of every private message you receive.  Load the relevant thread or message, click the triangle, and use the form to explain the problem.  The message you write will be visible to all of the moderators.  Other moderators will take a look at what happened and decide how best to proceed.

I understand that it might seem logical to write to the forum administrator to express your dissatisfaction with a moderator's action... but actually, this is not an efficient way of approaching the matter.  Mike deals primarily with the technical aspects of keeping the forums online, not with moderation or forum content.   If you complain about a particular incident, he will probably contact the moderator team to ask what happened and whether or not the team feels that the problem was managed appropriately.  So it's more efficient to just contact us directly. 

Let me reassure you that, although we moderators are human and fallible -- and volunteers -- we still do our best to be fair and objective.  If you have concerns about how Mod X handled something, then Mod X will withdraw from discussion of the issue and let his/her teammates come to their own conclusions.

Jann
French forums moderator


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## brian

The other advantage of reporting via the 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 button is that the private message gets displayed to us in its original form. That is to say, the PM is automatically sent to us by the website (and not copied/pasted by you), so we're 100% sure that it is what it is.

Not that I'd expect you (or anyone in particular) to modify a PM, but stranger things have been known to happen.


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## Alxmrphi

Just out of curiosity, but what is to stop that mod responding to the report and deleting it?
Is that a possibility or is there an in-built exception that, if a moderator has access and their own post / action is reported, it's invisible to them?


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## ampurdan

If ethics fail, fear that other mods realize what he's doing should be enough to prevent any mod from doing such thing.

That would actually be something very stupid to do. The forero could complain to another mod and then we could look for the deleted report and ask that mod why he deleted it.


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## brian

In theory, a very villainous mod could preemptively move a report to what we call the "reports bin" (where all reports already dealt with are eventually moved).

However, mods don't have the power to change the timestamp on posts/threads, so that thread would still be at the top of the reports bin, and would surely get seen.

Moreover, Mike Kellogg has disabled "hard deletion" of threads, so any time you see a deleted thread, that's called a "soft-deleted" thread, and we mods can still view (and even restore) soft-deleted threads. So a mod can't completely delete a report, either (reports look like threads).

A mod could perhaps edit the report somehow, but every edit leaves a trace, and we can track all the edits of any given post (and compare versions).

So basically, there's nothing a mod can do that can't be found out by other mods in some way.

Plus, this is all assuming that the mod in question is the very first mod to see the report and do something about it before any other mod sees it - _highly_ unlikely. Almost as unlikely as a mod being so evil as to consider it in the first place. 

Edit: And yes, as ampurdan says, it'd be stupid because the forero would eventually contact a specific mod to say he reported a PM, and we'd eventually dig up the report and confront the mod who hid it.


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## almostfreebird

Just out of curiosity, Have moderators ever been banned?


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## Vanda

No. They ''ban'' themselves if ever they think they are not fit to be mods or if they don't have enough time to spend around or if they don't agree to whatever (never knew about that, but it is a possibility).


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## jann

No, no moderator has ever been banned.

What Vanda describes is not "banning."  It is a decision to stop moderating and become a regular member again.

It seems to me that we are straying rather far from the original question about what to do if/when a member feels that he (or she) has been dealt with unfairly by a particular moderator.


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## un esprit d'acier

Hello

I wish to register a complaint against a moderator's wrongful removal of a thread.

Could somebody please indicate how I can accomplish this?

Thank you


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## jann

Running a quick search to find your posts, I see you have participated primarily in the French forums.  Information about how to contact the French forum moderators is listed here. 

As it happens, I am one of the French forum moderators.  I assure you we'll take a careful look at your complaint and get back to you with either a rectification or an explanation.


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## slowlikemolasses

I have the same question; would someone please answer it qua question? Thanks.


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## JamesM

Here's what it says in the FAQ, slowlikemolasses:



> *What do I do if I disagree with a moderator action?*
> 
> Discussions about moderator or administrator actions are welcome via email or private message, but should not be discussed in the public forums. This is out of respect for the members and moderators involved.
> If you don’t understand or agree with a moderator’s actions, send a private message to that moderator or another moderator that you trust. Your complaints and suggestions are welcome and will help us improve the WR forums.



Usually, the best thing is to contact the moderator who performed the action.  That person can often explain the reasoning behind the action.  It's not unusual for people to take a moderator action personally, but they are often not aware of the constraints placed on a moderator to edit or delete posts to fall into specific categories.  Sometimes just knowing the category and the obligation on the moderator's part to remove such a post will go a long way to making sense of the action.

If you are unsatisfied by the response, the next step would be to contact another moderator in that forum, or if there is only one moderator, contact any moderator you know.   

I hope that helps answer the question.


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## slowlikemolasses

It does, in part. The point on which the FAQ remains vague on, and, at least with regard to my own reason for asking, is whether or not there is an establish body within the moderators that deals with complaints against other moderators or if this duty is an inherent duty of all moderators, and whether or not this is the most effective way of handling these issues. I'd appreciate any clarification. Thanks.


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## jann

slowlikemolasses said:


> It does, in part. The point on which the FAQ remains vague on, and, at least with regard to my own reason for asking, is whether or not there is an establish body within the moderators that deals with complaints against other moderators or if this duty is an inherent duty of all moderators, and whether or not this is the most effective way of handling these issues. I'd appreciate any clarification. Thanks.


No, there is no "council" or "appeals board" officially designated to deal with complaints.  This is a shared duty for all moderators.

If you have a complaint about how a specific moderator handled something, and if you are unable to resolve the matter through a cordial exchange of private messages with that moderator, then you should report the private message chain (or the thread in question, as you like) by clicking the red triangle.  Use the report form to leave a message: explain why you are dissatisfied with the reponse you've received, and request that the team review the matter.  We are not unprincipled: the moderator with whom you have a disagreement will generally provide any information requested and then withdraw from the discussion so that his or her teammates can come to their own conclusions.  A member of the team responsible for the particular forum where the incident occurred will get back to you with the team's decision.  If there is only one moderator responsible for the forum in question, that moderator will ask colleagues from other forums for help.

You asked if this is an effective way of handling issues.  We believe it to be so, or we would have changed the system.  We moderators are volunteers, and we don't enjoy time-consuming, unpleasant exchanges any more than anyone else does!

Does this help?

best,
Jann
(French forums moderator)


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## slowlikemolasses

What I asked was whether or not the established method of handling problems is the _most_ effective way to do so. I don't expect the system to be the best, though I don't believe, nor do I believe that you believe, that you "would have changed the system" if it wasn't efficient, as though any gum in the works would inherently make itself apparent the moment it appears, prepared to be easily removed. The reason the system needs improvement is exactly _because_ it is seen as self-regulating. Have any allowances been made for situations in which a user has made a valid argument as to why a moderators decision to remove content should be removed, but the moderators continue to disagree?


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## Mauricet

> I don't expect the system to be the best, though I don't believe, nor do  I believe that you believe, that you "would have changed the system" if  it wasn't efficient, as though any gum in the works would inherently  make itself apparent the moment it appears, *prepared to be easily  removed*.


The end of this sentence remained closed to my understanding. As this is an important issue, I wish you would be kind enough to rephrase it if possible. Thanks.


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## slowlikemolasses

Ready to be taken out.


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## ewie

slowlikemolasses said:


> the moderators continue to disagree?


Do you mean "continue to disagree amongst themselves" or "continue to disagree with the appellant", SLM?

In my experience, as a general rule, if _you_ say "The Answer is A" and _a panel of multiple fair-minded and disinterested people_ say "Nope, Sorry, the Answer is Actually B", there's a good chance that the answer may indeed be B.


Mauricet said:


> As this is an important issue, I wish you would be kind enough to rephrase it if possible. Thanks.


I'd appreciate it if you could rephrase the _whole_ of post #7: I really have no idea what point you want to make


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## JamesM

slowlikemolasses said:


> What I asked was whether or not the established method of handling problems is the _most_ effective way to do so. I don't expect the system to be the best, though I don't believe, nor do I believe that you believe, that you "would have changed the system" if it wasn't efficient, as though any gum in the works would inherently make itself apparent the moment it appears, prepared to be easily removed. The reason the system needs improvement is exactly _because_ it is seen as self-regulating. Have any allowances been made for situations in which a user has made a valid argument as to why a moderators decision to remove content should be removed, but the moderators continue to disagree?



I _think_ I understand what you are asking.  If the person who lodged the complaint is still not satisfied with the result after receiving a response from another moderator (or moderators), he or she can contact Mike Kellogg, the owner of the board.  So, yes, there is the possibility of an appeal to a higher power.  

Internally, if there is a disagreement among the moderators about a particular issue or a general policy, they do the same thing.


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## slowlikemolasses

How does one most efficiently make him aware of the problem and the discussions with moderators?


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## JamesM

If you have gone through all the other steps that have been recommended you can use the Contact Us link at the bottom of any page and fill in the form to send a message to the board's Administrator.  Please do not use it as your first option.  You will simply be referred to the moderators if you haven't explored that option first.


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## slowlikemolasses

By "the board's Administrator" are you referring to Mike Kellogg?


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## slowlikemolasses

If so, I'm still unsure as to how to most effectively expose him to the full scope of the issue, as it includes more than one moderator's PM.


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## Cagey

There is a 'Contact Us' link in the bar at the bottom of this page.  Use that to reach the administrator. 

I suggest that you use that link only after you have first tried contacting moderators as was suggested above.


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## slowlikemolasses

When you say "administrator" are you referring to the owner of the board?


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## Cagey

Yes, we are. He will see any message sent through the 'contact us' link.


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## slowlikemolasses

Consider me _very_ well informed that I should first contact moderators.


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## slowlikemolasses

Thanks. Shouldn't this information be added to the appropriate section in the FAQ?


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## JamesM

No, because:

1) It isn't a Frequently Asked Question; it is rarely asked.  (We rarely have serious unresolved problems here, despite the number of participants.)
2) All moderators will eventually refer the person to Mike Kellogg if the issue is unresolved.
3) Many people will jump to step 3 if step 3 is spelled out rather than following steps 1 and 2 first.
4) Anyone who asks specifically will get the specific response, as you have.


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## slowlikemolasses

1) How can you tease apart exactly which of the frequently asked questions about dealing with moderators are asking about a moderator question versus a Mike-Kellog-level question when they are purposely not made aware of this level in the FAQ?

2) I'm troubled by your use of the word _eventually_. How long must a user bang on the door before it will open?

3) Then why is Step 2 in the rules? Can't a user already skip steps as the rules are now? Why can't an equally strongly worded admonition against using Step 2 before Step 1 be used with the addition of this third step?

4) Again, how is a user to even know that a third step lurks somewhere in the shadows?


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## Cagey

I suggest that you take whatever steps seem appropriate to you and stop worrying so much about what other people may do.


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## slowlikemolasses

4) Again, how is a user to even know that a third step lurks somewhere in the shadows when any discussion of the issue send the user into a storm of FAQ restatements, as can be see in this very thread?


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## JamesM

1) So you're asking how the people responsible for maintaining order on the forum will tell whether they should kick a problem upstairs if it becomes too much for them?  Since we are all volunteers we have a limited amount of time to devote to the board.  When a good portion of that time is being eaten up by one problem, that's a good indication to a) involve other moderators and b) send it to Mike if we can't resolve it.  That's the way it works. 

2) How long to bang on the door? The Contact Us form is the most common way for anyone to register a complaint about a website anyhere, anytime.  It's freely available to anyone.  No one is holding a secret URL that is only revealed after you "bang on the door" until your knuckles are bleeding.  This is a silly question, in my opinion. 

3) Step 2 is in the rules for people who like to know what the rules are.  Mike is available when needed but not actively moderating on the board most of the time. Therefore, it's the moderators' job to deal with day-to-day issues. Also, 99% of problems are resolved by Step 2.

4) See my response to 2.


I honestly don't know what you trying to accomplish here.  You have asked what the procedure is and you have been told, in private and in public.  You have exercised every option you have.  If it is simply to agitate for change then your questions are disingenuous.


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## slowlikemolasses

Cagey: Is attempting to help fellow user through an _extremely_ difficult process frowned upon here?


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## slowlikemolasses

> If it is simply to agitate for change then your questions are disingenuous.



That's _precisely_ what I'm attempting to do. What do I have to do to make it evident that I am being nothing but truthful about this topic?


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## JamesM

Make statements rather than ask questions, such as "I don't like the way problems are handled here."  I'm not saying that you'll get a different response but you will at least be more straightforward about your goal.

You asked us to answer it qua question but then moved on to stating your disagreement, still couched as questions.  We are answering your questions as questions, and then you are arguing with our answers because you don't like the way things work.  That is talking at cross purposes.

This could have been a short thread:

slowlikemolasses:  I don't like the way complaints are handled here.
moderator:  policy questions are handled by Mike Kellogg, the board owner.  Please contact him via the Contact Us form.

End of thread.

Instead, you asked us to answer it as a genuine question, to which we gave genuine and detailed answers.


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## slowlikemolasses

Oh, if only things worked that efficiently here. A post like that would not have lasted long before deletion. 

What does it matter if they are statements or questions? Are you calling the Socratic method null and void?


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## JamesM

Like other moderators before me, I believe I've reached the amount of time I'm willing to go round the mulberry bush on this matter.  Unfounded accusations and vague generalities about how this board is seen and predictions about what would happen to a suggestion posted on the Comments and Suggestions board are pointless.  The very fact that this thread is here and multiple moderators have attempted to answer your questions gives the lie to your prediction.

At this point the conversation has descended into baiting and trolling, in my opinion.  Feel free to exercise the options you have been given.


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## In-Su

A moderator keeps deleting parts of my posts unjustifiedly. What can I do?


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## elroy

In-Su said:


> A moderator keeps deleting parts of my posts unjustifiedly. What can I do?


 Please read through this thread.  It will answer your question.


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## Michelvar

In-Su said:


> A moderator keeps deleting parts of my posts unjustifiedly. What can I do?


You can also write a private message to this moderator, they will be pleased to explain to you why they keep deleting some of your posts.


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## Dosamuno

There should be an impartial ombudsman.
The system now is rigged in favor of the mods.
None of my complaints or reports have ever been answered.

Mods should not be allowed to participate in discussions.
It results in a conflict of interest.
One moderator whom I especially dislike frequently takes control of the threads
and takes them in a different direction than the OP intended.  
He also is a bully.
None of my complaints against him has done any good.

The deletions of my posts are often arbitrary.
Even two moderators I like have deleted posts that they deemed irrelevant--
I maintain they were relevant even if tangentially so.

And one more thing:
Has a moderator ever admitted she (or he) was wrong?
I've never seen such an admission even when a moderator was clearly wrong about an argument in a thread.
And, of course, none has ever apologized for a bogus deletion.

The imperial arrogance of the moderators detracts from all the good qualities of the forums.


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## Dosamuno

Michelvar said:


> You can also write a private message to this moderator, they will be pleased to explain to you why they keep deleting some of your posts.



Ha, ha.
Excellent use of irony.


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## Peterdg

I don't know what you guys are doing. I have been contributing in the forums for 10 years now and I have a little more than 13000 contributions and I have never had an issue with any of the moderators.

PS. I have never been a moderator.


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## Michelvar

Dosamuno said:


> There should be an impartial ombudsman.


There is one. See the second post of this thread.


Dosamuno said:


> None of my complaints or reports have ever been answered.


You don't understand how we work. We work as a team, and keep track of moderation messages we exchange with you. I don't moderate the forum you usually post in, so I don't know you, therefore when you write something like this, I immediately go read your record, and examine your moderated posts. Seing them, I'm quite reassured, no mod will be banned today...


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## Dosamuno

Michelvar said:


> There is one. See the second post of this thread.
> "You can report his or her closing note or any post of him in the forum. The *other moderators* will discuss his or her action and decide what's best. You can also contact another moderator of the forum via PM."
> 
> —That's the problem.   The ombudsman are the other moderators.  And you cover each other's backsides.
> 
> 
> You don't understand how we work. *We work as a team, and keep track of moderation messages we exchange with you.* I don't moderate the forum you usually post in, so I don't know you, therefore when you write something like this, I immediately go read your record, and examine your moderated posts. Seing them, I'm quite reassured, no mod will be banned today...



Precisely.  This system sucks.  When one goes to a court, the judge is not usually one of the defendants.
As I said, the moderators cover each other's backsides.  There should be an independent ombudsman.


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## DonnyB

Dosamuno said:


> There should be an impartial ombudsman.
> The system now is rigged in favor of the mods.
> None of my complaints or reports have ever been answered.


There is one.  From the FAQ about moderators:
_Can moderators be disciplined just like other members? By whom?_
Moderators must abide by the rules, just like other members. Their posts can be reported by members and are subject to moderation by other moderators. If disciplinary action is warranted, it is carried out by the administrator. 

Having actually dealt with one, I can assure you that complaints against another moderator are taken seriously and we do our best to resolve them to the complainant's satisfaction.

Because of the sheer volume we don't generally reply to reported posts, but whatever action is taken is recorded, so any moderator will be able to look at what was done and answer specific queries.



> Mods should not be allowed to participate in discussions.
> It results in a conflict of interest.
> One moderator whom I especially dislike frequently takes control of the threads
> and takes them in a different direction than the OP intended.
> He also is a bully.
> None of my complaints against him has done any good.


There _could_ be a perceived conflict where a thread in which a moderator has taken part as a member has posts deleted (or the thread itself is closed/deleted). For that reason, wherever possible the moderator concerned will 'recuse' themselves and the decision will be taken by a different moderator.



> The deletions of my posts are often arbitrary.
> Even two moderators I like have deleted posts that they deemed irrelevant--
> I maintain they were relevant even if tangentially so.


We're always happy to respond to reasonable requests for clarification of deletion decisions.  I would say, though, that 'tangential' relevance has the potential to take the thread completely off-topic and that is something we do watch out for.



> And one more thing:
> Has a moderator ever admitted she (or he) was wrong?
> I've never seen such an admission even when a moderator was clearly wrong about an argument in a thread.
> And, of course, none has ever apologized for a bogus deletion.
> 
> The imperial arrogance of the moderators detracts from all the good qualities of the forums.


*All* decisions are reversible. Most deletions are the result of a straightforward judgement call on the part of the individual moderator concerned, but a minority (usually the controversial or contentious ones) are carried out following extensive discussion amongst the moderators for that forum. We do regularly receive 'appeals' from members about unfair deletions, and the procedure is that a different moderator will look at it and either uphold it or reverse it. It's as simple as that. There's no question of "covering each other's backsides", as you put it.


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## Dosamuno

DonnyB said:


> There is one.  From the FAQ about moderators:
> _Can moderators be disciplined just like other members? By whom?_
> Moderators must abide by the rules, just like other members. Their posts can be reported by members and are subject to moderation by other moderators. If disciplinary action is warranted, it is carried out by the administrator.
> 
> Having actually dealt with one, I can assure you that complaints against another moderator are taken seriously and we do our best to resolve them to the complainant's satisfaction.
> 
> Because of the sheer volume we don't generally reply to reported posts, but whatever action is taken is recorded, so any moderator will be able to look at what was done and answer specific queries.
> 
> There _could_ be a perceived conflict where a thread in which a moderator has taken part as a member has posts deleted (or the thread itself is closed/deleted). For that reason, wherever possible the moderator concerned will 'recuse' themselves and the decision will be taken by a different moderator.
> 
> We're always happy to respond to reasonable requests for clarification of deletion decisions.  I would say, though, that 'tangential' relevance has the potential to take the thread completely off-topic and that is something we do watch out for.
> 
> *All* decisions are reversible. Most deletions are the result of a straightforward judgement call on the part of the individual moderator concerned, but a minority (usually the controversial or contentious ones) are carried out following extensive discussion amongst the moderators for that forum. We do regularly receive 'appeals' from members about unfair deletions, and the procedure is that a different moderator will look at it and either uphold it or reverse it. It's as simple as that. There's no question of "covering each other's backsides", as you put it.



Thank you for your response and explanation.
It still comes down to appealing to moderators to judge moderators.
It would be preferible to have an independent authority to whom one could appeal.


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## DonnyB

Dosamuno said:


> Thank you for your response and explanation.
> It still comes down to appealing to moderators to judge moderators.
> It would be preferible to have an independent authority to whom one could appeal.


Well, the ultimate recourse in terms of an appeal is Mike Kellogg, the forum owner and administrator.
From the FAQ on cancelling your membership (which is something of a drastic solution  ):
If you are leaving because of problems with other foreros, moderators or the forum's general culture, _please_ send a Private Message to the administrator mkellogg (Mike).  This way he might be able to fix the issues involved.  

Just one final thought, if I may.  This problem of disagreements (and personal animosity) with moderators is not new.  You may find this previous thread helpful and while some of the suggestions are just little bit impractical, the insight into what was (and is) being done about it is, I think, quite interesting:
*Proposal for members to be "released" from a moderator*


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## Dosamuno

DonnyB said:


> Well, the ultimate recourse in terms of an appeal is Mike Kellogg, the forum owner and administrator.
> From the FAQ on cancelling your membership (which is something of a drastic solution  ):
> If you are leaving because of problems with other foreros, moderators or the forum's general culture, _please_ send a Private Message to the administrator mkellogg (Mike).  This way he might be able to fix the issues involved.
> 
> Just one final thought, if I may.  This problem of disagreements (and personal animosity) with moderators is not new.  You may find this previous thread helpful and while some of the suggestions are just little bit impractical, the insight into what was (and is) being done about it is, I think, quite interesting:
> *Proposal for members to be "released" from a moderator*




De acuerdo, Donny.
I should add that in the few exchanges I've had with you, you have been respectful and helpful.

—Dosa


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## DiBaca

Dosamuno said:


> The imperial arrogance of the moderators detracts from all the good qualities of the forums.


Agree. Some of them are very arrogant and would never accept they are wrong.


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## eno2

Peterdg said:


> I don't know what you guys are doing.


I know what they are doing: They are  exaggerating.



Dosamuno said:


> Ha, ha.
> Excellent use of irony.


Especially when you know that a reason for deleting (good or bad) is always given.


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## Tizona

Sorry if I sound extremely thick but...



jann said:


> I just want to make sure this was clear:  if you have a complaint about a way a moderator dealt with your thread, or about a private message that you received from a moderator, *"reporting" the problem is the first, best thing to do.*
> 
> *This is the report triangle:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *
> 
> *It appears in the top right corner of every post on the forum *and of every private message you receive.  Load the relevant thread or message, click the triangle, and use the form to explain the problem.  The message you write will be visible to all of the moderators.  Other moderators will take a look at what happened and decide how best to proceed.



...I don't see any "report triangle". Is this info too old? If I disagree with a mod's decision, do I have to report myself using the "report" link in the bottom left corner?

Ta


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## DonnyB

Tizona said:


> ...I don't see any "report triangle". Is this info too old? If I disagree with a mod's decision, do I have to report myself using the "report" link in the bottom left corner?


Oh, I'm sorry - yes, the little triangle was discontinued and replaced by the 'Report' link which is at the bottom left just underneath each post.


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## tunaafi

DiBaca said:


> Agree. Some of them are very arrogant and would never accept they are wrong.


I find some of the mods_ a little_ over-prescriptive in their interpretation of the rules about relevance and topic drift compared with those on some of the other forums I have played on - but that's just my personal opinion. I expect they find me too ready to sidetrack. 

In my five years of occasionally dropping in here, and more frequent visits recently, I have never seen any sign of arrogance or unreasonable behaviour. (And yes, I have had posts deleted, always with a note of explanation,)

I am grateful that the mods we have here keep the forum a pleasant, civilised place to be, with informative, focused threads. In my ten years of playing on language forums, I have left at least two because of the unpleasant atmosphere and/or the sometimes rambling, confusing threads.

Having been a mod on a couple of forums, I know just how much time and work can be involved in the work of keeping a forum healthy and helpful. It's not just "I feel like deleting a few posts today".


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## DonnyB

tunaafi said:


> I find some of the mods_ a little_ over-prescriptive in their interpretation of the rules about relevance and topic drift compared with those on some of the other forums I have played on - but that's just my personal opinion. I expect they find me too ready to sidetrack.
> 
> In my five years of occasionally dropping in here, and more frequent visits recently, I have never seen any sign of arrogance or unreasonable behaviour. (And yes, I have had posts deleted, always with a note of explanation,)
> 
> I am grateful that the mods we have here keep the forum a pleasant, civilised place to be, with informative, focused threads. In my ten years of playing on language forums, I have left at least two because of the unpleasant atmosphere and/or the sometimes rambling, confusing threads.
> 
> Having been a mod on a couple of forums, I know just how much time and work can be involved in the work of keeping a forum healthy and helpful. It's not just "I feel like deleting a few posts today".


The problem with relevance/off-topic comments is that they have the_ potential_ to completely derail the thread.  It's basically a judgement call on the part of the individual moderator as to how likely that is to happen.  As a _very_ rough guide, an aside in a post which otherwise answers the question is likely to be left untouched whereas seizing on a minor point and developing it is more likely to trigger a deletion.

However hard we try, its next-to-impossible to achieve anything like total consistency, and I think it's worth pointing out that some forums are stricter than others over how they deal with topics 'wandering'.  I probably ought to confess that this post of mine is actually of course off-topic in a thread on how you report a moderator.    

No-one likes having their posts deleted and all moderators have at some point in their modding careers been castigated by disgruntled members for doing it unreasonably.  What can I say?  We're human and we don't always get it right.


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## eno2

Better delete too much than too little OT in the language forums. In some of the additional forums, I'm not so sure.


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