# Hindi/Urdu: unless



## lcfatima

How can one say "unless"? For some reason I hear a lot of people saying unless ke...there must be an Urdu/Hindi word for this. 

Unless ke aap pehle jaye.N, mai.N nahi.N jaa sakti.


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## Illuminatus

They say this because _unless_ conveys the meaning in one word. I don't think there is one Hindi word which can directly replace it.

We only use the if...not construction, unless (!) I am overlooking a very common word


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## Faylasoof

In Urdu we use these for unless:


'llaa الّا / 'illakeh کہ الّا
jab tak keh nah .. جَب تَک کہ نَہ
taa waqteekeh تاوَقتیکہ 
sivaa  iskeh [ - sorry, couldn't get the Urdu version to work. The <alif> kept jumping to the wrong place!]


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## lcfatima

Interesting. Thanks to both of you.


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## BP.

The correct form, which people rarely use seems to be the first one Fayla mentioned - _illa keh_. I'm used to saying the words for 'until' instead - _Hatta keh_ and _jab/yahaa.n tak keh_ - and get away with it.


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## Faylasoof

Just a quick reminder. 
 
There are also variations of 'llaa الّا / 'illakeh کہ الّا :
 
<'illaa iskeh> and <'illaa yeh keh>
 
These also give the meaning of unless and all dependent on 'llaa - originally from Arabic.


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## lcfatima

Hatta keh? I have never heard that used, but that is also straight from Arabic.


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## BP.

حٌتیٰ کہ  is _jusqu'à ce que_ in French, which should translate to _until_ I think. And you guessed right, Hatta is from Arabic.


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## Faylasoof

Both_ Hatta_ and _'illa_ are from Arabic and while we are at it, there is also Hatta-al-aan = until now. We use this also in idiomatic Urdu.


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## panjabigator

I am unable to think of one word for "unless" in Hindi.  Any ideas?  I would think that Hindi would use a relative correlative construction (<jab> and <tab>).

What do you call the diacritic above the _chhoṭī ī_ in حٌتیٰ?  Is it called a _zer_ here as well and does this letter have a particular name?  I've seen it in other words too, such as <'aalaa> for "high" or "exalted."  Are there any other more common words which use it?


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## Faylasoof

It is one of the peculiarities of Classical Arabic orthography that makes the sound of the letter <ye / yaa > into that of an <alif>! 
There are a number of words we use in Urdu that employ this orthographic convention. Apart from words like <a3laa أعلیٰ > and <DhuHaa ضحیٰ = forenoon - used in poetry) you also see it in some names, e.g. Musa = Moosaa موسیٰ = Moses. Although most of the times you don’t see it written, this <alif> is there at the end <ye / yaa> of these words.


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## Qureshpor

panjabigator said:


> I am unable to think of one word for "unless" in Hindi.  Any ideas?  I would think that Hindi would use a relative correlative construction (<jab> and <tab>).
> 
> What do you call the diacritic above the _chhoṭī ī_ in حٌتیٰ?  Is it called a _zer_ here as well and does this letter have a particular name?  I've seen it in other words too, such as <'aalaa> for "high" or "exalted."  Are there any other more common words which use it?


*
I have, at times, felt that Urdu equivalents for some English constructions such as "unless", "before" etc are too verbose.

1) Unless he works hard, he will not pass his exams.

jab tak vuh miHnat nahiiN kare gaa, apne imtiHaanaat meN kaamyaab nahiiN ho gaa.

2)  Before he achieves success, he must work hard.

is se pahle kih use kaamyaabii Haasil ho, use saKht miHnat karnaa ho gii.

For "Unless", I have "invented" a compact equivalent. 

We know that in Persian and Urdu 'va agar nah" (Otherwise) is abbreviated to "varnah". Similarly, "judaa + az" = "juz" for "Except". Also, unless in essence is equivalent to "except if". So, my version for "Unless" would be "juzar".

In 2), I think "Pahle kih.." should be sufficient for "Before....".



*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *
> I have, at times, felt that Urdu equivalents for some English constructions such as "unless", "before" etc are too verbose.
> ...
> For "Unless", I have "invented" a compact equivalent.
> 
> We know that in Persian and Urdu 'va agar nah" (Otherwise) is abbreviated to "varnah". Similarly, "judaa + az" = "juz" for "Except". Also, unless in essence is equivalent to "except if". So, my version for "Unless" would be "juzar".
> 
> In 2), I think "Pahle kih.." should be sufficient for "Before....".
> *


Not sure how wise / useful it is to invent new Urdu words for the English word  _unless_, given that we have well-established compact forms:



Faylasoof said:


> In Urdu we use these for unless:
> 
> 'llaa الّا / 'illakeh الّا کہ
> jab tak keh nah  جَب تَک کہ .. نَہ
> taa waqteekeh تاوَقتیکہ
> sivaa  iskeh [ - sorry, couldn't get the Urdu version to work. The <alif> kept jumping to the wrong place!]



Finally, for the last option it is    سوا اسكہ_ siwaa iskeh  _( =unless) - I did in the end manage to get it to behave OK! All of the above are used commonly so I'm afraid _*juzar*_ is really not needed, apart from it being  read in an unvowelled text as جزر_ jazr_ (= the ebb of sea / river) so be a cause of confusion!


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> Not sure how wise / useful it is to invent new Urdu words for the English word  _unless_, given that we have well-established compact forms:
> 
> 
> 
> Finally, for the last option it is    سوا اسكہ_ siwaa iskeh  _( =unless) - I did in the end manage to get it to behave OK! All of the above are used commonly so I'm afraid _*juzar*_ is really not needed, apart from it being  read in an unvowelled text as جزر_ jazr_ (= the ebb of sea / river) so be a cause of confusion!



*I would n't go as far as to say that "jab tak (kih)", "taa vaqte kih...nah" and "sivaae is ke kih" are compact with the exception of "illaa kih" and none of them convey the exact meaning of the English "unless" (except if). Secondly, "juzar" would be differentiated from "jazr" by context as other Urdu words manage to do all the time. It seems to go well with 'agar" "magar" etc. Besides, one could change the "juzar" to "juzgar" if a push came to a shove.*


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## Faylasoof

What is or isn't compact might be matter of dispute depending on one's point of view but I still see no need to invent a new word when we have adequate and established alternatives that work well! Why try fix something that is not broken! Where we do need knew words - and Urdu seem to be lagging here - are neologisms for the new, modern technical vocabulary.

By all means contact  The National Language Authority (مقتدرہ قومی زبان) with your suggestion of _juzar / juzgar_ to mean _unless_ (!)...and I wish you luck with their normally indifferent attitudes to suggestions.

I would however stick with the commonly used and established alternatives above.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> What is or isn't compact might be matter of dispute depending on one's point of view but I still see no need to invent a new word when we have adequate and established alternatives that work well! Why try fix something that is not broken! Where we do need knew words - and Urdu seem to be lagging here - are neologisms for the new, modern technical vocabulary.
> 
> By all means contact  The National Language Authority (مقتدرہ قومی زبان) with your suggestion of _juzar / juzgar_ to mean _unless_ (!)...and I wish you luck with their normally indifferent attitudes to suggestions.
> 
> I would however stick with the commonly used and established alternatives above.



*Thank you for the suggestion but I don't somehow think I would be contacting "The Language Authoruty". When my new coinage is on the tongue of every Urdu speaker, there would not be any need for a licence from this authority! With due respect, Faylasoof Sahib, I do believe you are taking this discussion a tad too seriously. This is just a little "intellectual" exercise or "lahuu garm rakhne kaa ik bahaanah"!*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *
> Thank you for the suggestion but I don't somehow think I would be contacting "The Language Authoruty". When my new coinage is on the tongue of every Urdu speaker, there would not be any need for a licence from this authority! With due respect, Faylasoof Sahib, I do believe you are taking this discussion a tad too seriously. This is just a little "intellectual" exercise or "lahuu garm rakhne kaa ik bahaanah"!*


 Actually I was, let us say, half-serious when I suggested you contact them. I didn't have much luck with them but you never know they might even consider looking into your suggestion. They don't seem to be doing a lot it seems. Anyway, it was just a thought.


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## jamila90

*Thank you
Language is the identity of every human being on earth Igesh two different understanding and will remain one way but is originally understanding vary from person to person?
Or they differ from the word punch? here the question remains vague hope that more shows*


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## marrish

Reviving an old thread: another word for 'unless' in Urdu, but this time not in the temporal application: _بجز اس کے کہ ۔۔۔ bajuz is ke kih..._

Also, can anybody explain the meaning of the above post???


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Reviving an old thread: another word for 'unless' in Urdu, but this time not in the temporal application: _بجز اس کے کہ ۔۔۔ bajuz is ke kih..._
> 
> Also, can anybody explain the meaning of the above post???


As I have indicated in this thread marrish SaaHib, "..is ke kih" seems such a convoluted way to express an idea. Hence my suggestion for the use of "juzar" which is short for "juz agar".

Regarding the post in question, that was probably the nail in this thread's coffin! You have used the correct word. Something dead or almost dead needs "reviving"!


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## Qureshpor

Apart from Illuminatus (please come back, all is forgiven!), no other Hindi speaker has come forward to contribute to this thread from Hindi perspective. It would be nice to have such an input.


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## Sheikh_14

lcfatima said:


> Hatta keh? I have never heard that used, but that is also straight from Arabic.



On a side note Hatta keh is used for more often as an alternative for inasmuch as, than it is for until. Nevertheless it does have varying shades of meaning.

However, more importantly my question to other forum members is that can "Illah keh" be used with "tab" or "jab" as an equalavent for "unless when"?

Illah keh jab/tab. In such a circumstance you would proably use both together as "Illah keh tab jab apney" and so on and so forth. Seems pretty accurate.


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## More od Solzi

unless in Hindi

*जब तक न*
jaba taka na

*जब तक नहीं*
 jaba taka naheen

*यदि नहीं
*yadi naheen


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## Sheikh_14

Didn't quite understand the relevance of this post to the previous one as it doesn't really touch on Illah keh and instead offers alternatives which aren't exactly an ever-fit.


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## mundiya

^ See #21 from Quresh saahab.


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## gagun

i simply say as 'aap pehle jaye'n tho he main ja sakti and in urdu vayilla,vagar nah are used for unless but i think there is no need of them in this sentence.


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## Qureshpor

More od Solzi said:


> unless in Hindi
> 
> *जब तक न*
> jaba taka na
> 
> *जब तक नहीं*
> jaba taka naheen
> 
> *यदि नहीं
> *yadi naheen


Thank you More od Solzi for your contribution. Much appreciated.


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