# Fun: noun or adjective?



## Sun14

Hello my friends,

I was wondering how do we define whether fun as a noun or adjective in a sentence. And is there a difference between the noun and adjective meaning:

A: Look at the man in the photo.

B: It is fun.

Thoughts and context: B wanted to say the activity the man is doing is enjoyable.
In the English class or on the English class


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## Florentia52

Where did you find this dialogue, Sun14? Is there some context for it? "It is fun" seems a very odd response to "Look at the man in the photo." If you wrote it yourself, what did you intend for it to mean? Were you using "fun" as a noun, or as an adjective?

Also, please see this thread:

Is 'fun' an adjective or a noun in 'It is fun to play football.'?


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## DonnyB

B's response there sounds a bit odd to me. 

I'd probably say either:
"He's having fun"_ = (noun) the photo depicts that the man is obviously enjoying himself.
or_
"That's a fun photo" = (_adjective_)_ the photo and its subject are very amusing.
_
[cross-posted]


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## Sun14

Florentia52 said:


> Where did you find this dialogue, Sun14? Is there some context for it? "It is fun" seems a very odd response to "Look at the man in the photo." If you wrote it yourself, what did you intend for it to mean? Were you using "fun" as a noun, or as an adjective?
> 
> Also, please see this thread:
> 
> Is 'fun' an adjective or a noun in 'It is fun to play football.'?



I just don't know when fun can be regarded as a noun or adjective.

A: How do you think the activity the man is doing?

B: It is fun.

A is asking B how he feels about the activity the man in the photo is doing.


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## Sun14

DonnyB said:


> B's response there sounds a bit odd to me.
> 
> I'd probably say either:
> "He's having fun"_ = (noun) the photo depicts that the man is obviously enjoying himself.
> or_
> "That's a fun photo" = (_adjective_)_ the photo and its subject are very amusing.
> _
> [cross-posted]



If there is no noun after fun, can we regard fun as a adjective:

That photo is fun.


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## Cagey

Yes, fun may be an adjective even when there no noun following it.  

This is true of any adjective. For example, in _"Sun14's hair is black,"_ 'black' is an adjective.


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## Sun14

Cagey said:


> Yes, fun may be an adjective even when there no noun following it.
> 
> This is true of any adjective. For example, in _"Sun14's hair is black,"_ 'black' is an adjective.



I know this usage but it seems that fun is different. Because it can be a noun and adjective so it is hard for me to distinguish whether it is a noun or adjective in this sentence:

That photo is fun.


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## Cagey

What do you think 'fun' would be if it is a noun in that sentence?


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## Sun14

Cagey said:


> What do you think 'fun' would be if it is a noun in that sentence?



I just don't know the difference because fun is really different because the word we know is either used as a noun or adjective but fun can be used both.


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## Cagey

_"Black"_ can also be a noun: _"Black is my favorite color."_


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## Sun14

Cagey said:


> _"Black"_ can also be a noun: _"Black is my favorite color."_



That's the tricky part because you won't consider back as a noun in this sentence: The desk is black but sometimes I can't distinguish the usage of noun or adjective in the sentence the photo is fun or She is fun.


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## suzi br

Sun14 said:


> I just don't know the difference because fun is really different because the word we know is either used as a noun or adjective but fun can be used both.



This is not an uncommon problem in English.  Lots of words can be classified differently according to their role in a sentence.  We have to pick up on the structural clues in the context.  We can even classify nonsense words just by the context.

She is xzby -> xzuby is functioning as an adjective (the verb to be and nothing else after the word xzuby are your clues)

She is an xzuby -> xzuby is functioning as a noun.
The use of an article (a/an /the)  is often clue to the noun function.

However in a series like: "she is an xzuby acowz" we can see that acowz is the noun and we class xzuby as the adjective there.

Can you classify these:
1. He is a fun guy.
2 We had fun at the beach.
3. Charades is a fun game.
4. She told me she thought cycling was good fun.


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## suzi br

Sun14 said:


> A: How do you think the activity the man is doing?



By the way  - this is not a good sentence. 
It could be re-written like this:
*What *do you think *about* the activity the man is doing?


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> This is not an uncommon problem in English.  Lots of words can be classified differently according to their role in a sentence.  We have to pick up on the structural clues in the context.  We can even classify nonsense words just by the context.
> 
> She is xzby -> xzuby is functioning as an adjective (the verb to be and nothing else after the word xzuby are your clues)
> 
> She is an xzuby -> xzuby is functioning as a noun.
> The use of an article (a/an /the)  is often clue to the noun function.
> 
> However in a series like: "she is an xzuby acowz" we can see that acowz is the noun and we class xzuby as the adjective there.
> 
> Can you classify these:
> 1. He is a fun guy.
> 2 We had fun at the beach.
> 3. Charades is a fun game.
> 4. She told me she thought cycling was good fun.



1#,2#and 4# are used as an adjective and the other is noun. but in 4# if "good" is omitted, "fun" is again can be considered to be a noun or adjective.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> By the way  - this is not a good sentence.
> It could be re-written like this:
> *What *do you think *about* the activity the man is doing?



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## suzi br

1. He is a fun guy.  Yes, this is an adjective.  It modifies the guy.  You got this one 

2 We had fun at the beach. - I'd classify this as a noun. "we had fun" it is not modifying another word, it is "the thing" we had at the beach. You missed this.

3. Charades is a fun game. - this is an adjective -  you missed this, it is exactly like fun guy.

4. She told me she thought cycling was good fun - yes this is a tricky one - but taking it back to its minimal form: cycling is fun we agree it is acting as an adjective here.    However, your extra comment here shows you are still a bit muddled.


You can try making some more sentences and classifying the word in its context, if you want.
But really, do you need to know this? Does it stop you writing sentences if you cannot always classify the words in it?


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> 4. She told me she thought cycling was good fun - yes this is a tricky one - but taking it back to its minimal form: cycling is fun we agree it is acting as an adjective here.    However, your extra comment here shows you are still a bit muddled.



I still don't understand why in its minimal form dunks an adjective but in the fuller form it is a noun.

How about this:

A: What's your favorite subject?

B: My favorite subject is P.E.

A: Why do you like P.E.

B: It's fun.

B means P.E. is enjoyable. Do you think fun is a noun or adjective?


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## suzi br

Sun14 said:


> I still don't understand why in its minimal form dunks an adjective but in the fuller form it is a noun.
> 
> How about this:
> 
> A: What's your favorite subject?
> 
> B: My favorite subject is P.E.
> 
> A: Why do you like P.E.
> 
> B: It's fun.
> 
> B means P.E. is enjoyable. Do you think fun is a noun or adjective?



In that one we should class as an adjective because it comes directly after the verb to be.

You keep asserting that it could be a noun, which is wrong. It is nothing to do with "fuller form" you are getting confused.

What I meant by "minimal form" in my answer was trying to strip out the words around the sentence to expose the structure.  

I am consistently saying that in a structure where we have the verb *to be *we classify the  word "fun" as an adjective.
It is fun.
It was fun.
Both the verb *to be* followed by the ADJECTIVE.

Exactly the same as:
It is green
It was green.

You actually missed the noun in my "test" set, so you need to revise the pattern that  I told you in #12 and try to make up some test sentences of your own, using the "rules" I suggested there.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> This is not an uncommon problem in English.  Lots of words can be classified differently according to their role in a sentence.  We have to pick up on the structural clues in the context.  We can even classify nonsense words just by the context.
> 
> She is xzby -> xzuby is functioning as an adjective (the verb to be and nothing else after the word xzuby are your clues)



I don't think in this pattern _She is xzby_, xzby is always an adjective. Yes, I agree, but in this patten _It is xzby_, xzby could be a noun: It is milk.

1# and 4# are used as adjectives which I know but it was a typo that I typed the wrong answers.

Do you believe that in this sentence _She told me she thought cycling was good fun, _fun is an adjective?


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## suzi br

Sun14 said:


> I don't think in this pattern _She is xzby_, xzby is always an adjective. Yes, I agree, but in this patten _It is xzby_, xzby could be a noun: It is milk.
> 
> 1# and 4# are used as adjectives which I know but it was a typo that I typed the wrong answers.
> 
> Do you believe that in this sentence _She told me she thought cycling was good fun, _fun is an adjective?



That's true about the milk. 
 That's why it is very hard to give reliable guidance on how to work out word classes.

Yes, I do think "cycling was good fun" is acting adjectivally there.  Mainly because we have the thing "cycling" and this is her attitude to it. Let's test it out by adding in milk to the same structure:

she told me she thought cycling was good fun.
she told me she thought drinking was hot milk.  it doesn't make sense.
she told me she thought drinking was dangerous   dangerous ONLY works as an adjective, its noun form is danger.

She told me she thought cycling was danger 


I refer you back to my point in post 16:

You can try making some more sentences and classifying the word in its context, if you want.
But really, do you need to know this? Does it stop you writing sentences if you cannot always classify the words in it?


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## semeeran

"She told me she thought cycling was *a* good fun."
Is this sentence not correct?


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## suzi br

semeeran said:


> "She told me she thought cycling was *a* good fun."
> Is this sentence not correct?


No, we don't say that.  It is not idiomatic.

If we said this "She told me she thought cycling was *A* good hobby" then hobby would be classed as a noun.  
The insertion of the article is  definitely a clue there!


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## semeeran

"She told me she thought cycling was good(adj) fun(adj)."
Do you consider both good and fun as adjectives?
Please comment.
Thanks.


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## e2efour

In the sentence _It's fun_, there is no way to prove whether it is a noun or an adjective.

I would advise you to learn this as an expression. 

If it is regarded as an adjective, how could one explain _It's good fun_?

The argument that it is always an adjective if it used predicatively after _be_ _is nonsense_, as this sentence shows. Compare also phrases like _It's time._


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## suzi br

semeeran said:


> "She told me she thought cycling was good(adj) fun(adj)."
> Do you consider both good and fun as adjectives?
> Please comment.
> Thanks.



I regard "good fun" as a set phrase.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> That's true about the milk.
> That's why it is very hard to give reliable guidance on how to work out word classes.
> 
> Yes, I do think "cycling was good fun" is acting adjectivally there.  Mainly because we have the thing "cycling" and this is her attitude to it. Let's test it out by adding in milk to the same structure:
> 
> she told me she thought cycling was good fun.
> she told me she thought drinking was hot milk.  it doesn't make sense.
> she told me she thought drinking was dangerous   dangerous ONLY works as an adjective, its noun form is danger.
> 
> She told me she thought cycling was danger
> 
> 
> I refer you back to my point in post 16:
> 
> You can try making some more sentences and classifying the word in its context, if you want.
> But really, do you need to know this? Does it stop you writing sentences if you cannot always classify the words in it?



I fail to add this to OP. I am teaching English as a second language. I know what you mean and I've told my students  at the very beginning that it might not help you understand more but at least you should know that.

Someone said fun can mean a fun thing or person so we can say she is fun(a fun person) and drinking milk is good fun(the thing _drinking milk_ is fun)


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> I regard "good fun" as a set phrase.



Regarding good gun as a noun phrase?


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## Sun14

The argument that it is always an adjective if it used predicatively after _be_ _is nonsense_, as this sentence shows. Compare also phrases like _It's time._[/QUOTE]

What do you mean by predicatively and nonsense? What does these sentences mean?


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## suzi br

e2efour is criticising my guidance on saying "It is fun"  which we already agreed was limited in our "this is milk" discussion. 

And, actually, it's not a relevant point since no-one said "always"  

What I said was these things are CLUES in the whole picture / context when looking at the same word in different sentences. Not in all sentences, all the time. 

I cannot see  e2efour's contribution to helping you with your actual issue in this thread.  Sniping at a detail the work I have offered in addressing this difficult problem is an easy, on-looker's option.  Sadly there are a few members who'd rather critique the "help" than offer solutions to deal with the actual problem a learner posed. 



Sun14 said:


> Regarding good gun as a noun phrase?



Classifying anything needs the whole sentence. In general you'd expect to meet this phrase with an article which would lead to classifying thus: 
 good as the adjective and gun as the noun:

This is a good gun 
This is a good fun


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> e2efour is criticising my guidance on saying "It is fun"  which we already agreed was limited in our "this is milk" discussion.
> 
> And, actually, it's not a relevant point since no-one said "always"
> 
> What I said was these things are CLUES in the whole picture / context when looking at the same word in different sentences. Not in all sentences, all the time.
> 
> I cannot see  e2efour's contribution to helping you with your actual issue in this thread.  Sniping at a detail the work I have offered in addressing this difficult problem is an easy, on-looker's option.  Sadly there are a few members who'd rather critique the "help" than offer solutions to deal with the actual problem a learner posed.
> 
> 
> 
> Classifying anything needs the whole sentence. In general you'd expect to meet this phrase with an article which would lead to classifying thus:
> good as the adjective and gun as the noun:
> 
> This is a good gun
> This is a good fun



I'm sorry. I type it wrongly. I mean good fun in the sentence "She told me she thought cycling was good(adj) fun(adj)."

Do you consider good fun as a noun phrase?


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## suzi br

I repeat: I don't consider classifying anything unless it is part of a complete sentence. The whole point of our discussion is that many words can be classified in different ways and therefore can only be classified when they are actually IN a context.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> I repeat: I don't consider classifying anything unless it is part of a complete sentence. The whole point of our discussion is that many words can be classified in different ways and therefore can only be classified when they are actually IN a context.



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## Truffula

The trickiness  of determining if "fun" is a noun or predicate adjective in sentences where it follows forms of "be" is very much like the trickiness of determining the same thing about a color in this thread: it's orange  As I demonstrated there, situations and contexts exist where a sentence like "It is orange" or "It is fun" is truly ambiguous as to whether "orange" or "fun" is a noun or a predicate adjective, without any ambiguity of meaning coming about because of this ambiguity of structural classification. 

The real question is, why does it matter whether "fun" is noun or adjective in a sentence like "it is fun"?  Is it pedantic curiosity, or does it make a real difference in something (if so, what)?  You said "I've told my students at the very beginning that it might not help you understand more but at least you should know that."  I feel you're misleading your students if you tell them this matters to language learning - it does not.  A comfort with the ambiguity that is a common part of natural language would serve them better, I think.


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## suzi br

Yes. I agree with Truffula. I have asked the question "does it matter?" at least twice in the thread! 



Truffula said:


> A comfort with the ambiguity that is a common part of natural language would serve them better,



This is a lovely way of expressing the point. Thank-you. 

@sun. You also need to look more closely at your proof-reading. At least twice in this thread you've set us off on wrong tracks because of typos. Don't get me wrong. I am typo queen myself, so I don't have a high horse to get on, but in a thread where a single letter makes a big difference you really need to double check your typing.


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## Sun14

suzi br said:


> Yes. I agree with Truffula. I have asked the question "does it matter?" at least twice in the thread!
> 
> 
> 
> This is a lovely way of expressing the point. Thank-you.
> 
> @sun. You also need to look more closely at your proof-reading. At least twice in this thread you've set us off on wrong tracks because of typos. Don't get me wrong. I am typo queen myself, so I don't have a high horse to get on, but in a thread where a single letter makes a big difference you really need to double check your typing.



Got it. I explain it in #26.

I am teaching English as a second language. I know what you mean and I've told my students at the very beginning that know the what part of speech _fun_ is might not help you understand more but at least you should know that when you are learning it as a second language and there are fewer people speaking it all the time around you.


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## e2efour

suzi br said:


> I am consistently saying that in a structure where we have the verb *to be *we classify the  word "fun" as an adjective.
> It is fun.
> It was fun.
> Both the verb *to be* followed by the ADJECTIVE.
> 
> Exactly the same as:
> It is green
> It was green.



You are arguing here that in "It is fun" _fun _is an adjective because it comes after _is_. I hardly think that this is a helpful thing to say to someone who is wondering about a basic part of speech, like _adjective._ It would have been more useful to say that in such sentences _fun_ can be regarded as an adjective or a noun and that it is not possible to "prove" one or the other.
If Sun teaches his students certain parts of speech, they are going to come across problems where they cannot be defined precisely. You are not solving the problem he has by giving him inaccurate information.

Of course, whether it really matters about _fun_ being an adjective or a noun is another question. As I said in #24 (and as you also said "does it matter?")) it is better to regard _it's fun_ as a set expression.



Sun14 said:


> "The argument that it is always an adjective if it used predicatively after _be_ _is nonsense_, as this sentence shows. Compare also phrases like _It's time."_
> 
> What do you mean by predicatively and nonsense? What does these sentences mean?



Adjectives can be _attributive _(used before the noun: _a green car_) or _predicative_ (used after the noun: _the car is green_) or both.
The statement from suzi br I quoted above is incorrect for the simple reason that in "is nonsense" _nonsense_ is a noun. In sentences like _It is xxxx_, you can have several nouns (without _a_ or _an_). For example, _it is evidence_ (_*not* it is an evidence_).

_It is_ can be followed by an adjective (_interesting_), a noun (_music_) or a verb (_raining_).


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## Sun14

Truffula said:


> The trickiness  of determining if "fun" is a noun or predicate adjective in sentences where it follows forms of "be" is very much like the trickiness of determining the same thing about a color in this thread: it's orange  As I demonstrated there, situations and contexts exist where a sentence like "It is orange" or "It is fun" is truly ambiguous as to whether "orange" or "fun" is a noun or a predicate adjective, without any ambiguity of meaning coming about because of this ambiguity of structural classification.
> 
> The real question is, why does it matter whether "fun" is noun or adjective in a sentence like "it is fun"?  Is it pedantic curiosity, or does it make a real difference in something (if so, what)?  You said "I've told my students at the very beginning that it might not help you understand more but at least you should know that."  I feel you're misleading your students if you tell them this matters to language learning - it does not.  A comfort with the ambiguity that is a common part of natural language would serve them better, I think.



Got it. Actually in China the languages go the different way. Because we don't have enough excess to the native speaker. Sometimes in middle school or high school we have no chance at all. The point that I want to know the difference is that if in a context fun can be seen as a noun or an adjective, is there any difference between the two. I will tell you the reason. When we are making sentences, first, we think what meaning a certain word have and then chose the right meaning but in this word _fun_, the noun usage and adjective usage are quite the same as well as the meaning which makes the students confused. Here I also want to figure out is there any difference between the meaning of the noun fun and adjective fun?


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## velisarius

In a sentence_ like My best friend is fun_ there can be no difference in meaning, because we can't tell whether it's  a noun or an adjective anyway. 

To my way of thinking, "fun" is a noun that has come to be accepted as an adjective _(She is fun, _just as we say_ She is amusing)_. 


In contexts where "fun" is obviously a noun, there is a difference:
_
I want to have fun.
She is fun, _therefore I want to have her .


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## Sun14

velisarius said:


> In a sentence_ like My best friend is fun_ there can be no difference in meaning, because we can't tell whether it's  a noun or an adjective anyway.
> 
> To my way of thinking, "fun" is a noun that has come to be accepted as an adjective _(She is fun, _just as we say_ She is amusing)_.
> 
> 
> In contexts where "fun" is obviously a noun, there is a difference:
> _
> I want to have fun.
> She is fun, _therefore I want to have her .



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## Sun14

e2efour said:


> You are arguing here that in "It is fun" _fun _is an adjective because it comes after _is_. I hardly think that this is a helpful thing to say to someone who is wondering about a basic part of speech, like _adjective._ It would have been more useful to say that in such sentences _fun_ can be regarded as an adjective or a noun and that it is not possible to "prove" one or the other.
> If Sun teaches his students certain parts of speech, they are going to come across problems where they cannot be defined precisely. You are not solving the problem he has by giving him inaccurate information.
> 
> Of course, whether it really matters about _fun_ being an adjective or a noun is another question. As I said in #24 (and as you also said "does it matter?")) it is better to regard _it's fun_ as a set expression.
> 
> 
> 
> Adjectives can be _attributive _(used before the noun: _a green car_) or _predicative_ (used after the noun: _the car is green_) or both.
> The statement from suzi br I quoted above is incorrect for the simple reason that in "is nonsense" _nonsense_ is a noun. In sentences like _It is xxxx_, you can have several nouns (without _a_ or _an_). For example, _it is evidence_ (_*not* it is an evidence_).
> 
> _It is_ can be followed by an adjective (_interesting_), a noun (_music_) or a verb (_raining_).



Got it. Thank you very much.


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## velisarius

We can say "It is such fun", which suggests that "fun" is a noun. "It is so fun" (where "fun" seems to be an adjective) is non-standard.

Compare with "It is such nonsense" and "It is so interesting".


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## natkretep

This is obviously very tricky of learners of English. Do you know the Abba song? 'Money, money, money - must be funny in a rich man's world'. They obviously thought that the adjective of _fun_ was _funny_. But yet if we change it to '(It) must be fun', we can't tell if it is a noun or an adjective. I like veli's suggestion that we should test it by intensifying (strengthening) the word.

I think I hear children talk about things being _very fun_ (like veli's _so fun_). Some people find it acceptable; many other people don't like it though. Have a look at this thread:
Very fun? Fun as an adjective.


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## Truffula

From that thread, natkretep, I'd gather that "It is fun" has "fun" as a noun in Britain and an adjective in the US (especially Ohio).  

I'm sure you can tell your students that, Sun, and they will be entirely up to date on the situation.    Of course that does not tell us what it is in China, but maybe they can choose by which accent they're trying to say it with?


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