# Urdu: pistol/revolver



## Chhaatr

As a Hindi speaker from Lucknow I am used to saying and hearing _tamanchaa_ and _kaTTaa_ for pistol/revolver (country made weapon) while conversing with friends.

As an Urdu speaker what words do you use to mean pistol/revolver.  Are any distinctions made between the branded ones and the ones locally made by anti social elements?

While my question is primarily addressed to Urdu speakers, I welcome contributions from Hindi speaking friends too to see if they use words other than the ones I have listed above.

Many thanks!


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## marrish

For Urdu I have a double surprise for you - I don't know if the first one is going to be a new thing but since you have not mentioned it, it is possible! 

We say _pistaul_ for a pistol/revolver, _tamaNchah_ is also used. Here is the second part of the surprise.
Although I'm familiar with the word ''kaTTaa'', I don't use or hear it used in the sense of a pistol. We use it, also amongst friends (=colloquial) when purported anger is expressed: ''_teraa kaTTaa kar duuN gaa maiN!_''. 
English words like ''gun'', ''pistol'' and ''revolver'' are also much used.


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## Alfaaz

پستول - _pistaul_ seems to be the most common word.

There is also طبنچہ - _tabanchah_, طمنچه - _tamanchah_, تپنچہ - _tapanchah_, طپانچہ - _tapaanchah_, _etc._ (from either Turkish and/or Persian - according to Platts). 

As you can see in both Urdu Lughat and Platts, a variety of different spellings are listed.
Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - _ghoRaa_ is sometimes also used to refer to _pistols/guns/etc._ even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.
(Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**

In a television program, مسدس - _musaddas_ was mentioned for _revolver_. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of _banduuq _for _gun_ is a _ghalat-ul-3aam _for the following reasons_:
_

_ب_ پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
_بندوق_ در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
Platt lists it as b_*a*_nduuq, possibly derived from b_*u*_nduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (band_uu_q vs. bund_u_q) or I misinterpreted the information presented!**  

It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!


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## Dib

That Platts entry on banduuq is surprising. It says:
(from بندق _bunduq_, 'bullet,' 'ball,' the Arabicized form of the Persian _funduq_)

How come a Persian word has a q? If not Arabic, it must be Turkic then, though I can find no matching Turkish word in dictionary.

---

Interestingly, urduencyclopedia entry has t*i*banchah, not t*a*banchah!!

---

I just checked a Turkish (of Turkey) dictionary. They also have "tabanca" (c is pronounced like our j).


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## marrish

Alfaaz said:


> [...]Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - _ghoRaa_ is sometimes also used to refer to _pistols/guns/etc._ even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.
> (Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**
> 
> In a television program, مسدس - _musaddas_ was mentioned for _revolver_. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of _banduuq _for _gun_ is a _ghalat-ul-3aam _for the following reasons_:
> _
> 
> _ب_ پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
> _بندوق_ در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
> Platt lists it as b_*a*_nduuq, possibly derived from b_*u*_nduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (band_uu_q vs. bund_u_q) or I misinterpreted the information presented!**
> 
> It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!


You are right, it is slang for a pistol/gun at least in Karachi and is used quite often, but it is _slang_.
This is ludicrous - *musaddas* is a well-established literary term for Urdu poetry consisting of *six-versed* stanzas, as especially in _marsiya_s (مرثیہ)!! Now way it can be used for a revolver!!! If one wishes to delve on it, one can say: *shash-zarbii pistaul *along with _chhih-faayar (fire) waalaa, chhih shaaT (shot) waalaa.
_My view is that *banduuq *for a gun cannot be wrong or_ Ghalatu_l3aam _or even_ Ghalatu_l3awaam _and this is the reason:

Persian dictionary (Steingass):بندوق _bundūq,_ A musket.
Loghatnameh Dehkhoda: *بندوق* [*بُ، بَ*]: *تفنگ*. و این مأخوذ از بندق است که بضم اول و ثالث باشد و در عربی بمعنی غلوله باشد *چون از تفنگ گلوله ٔ آهن یا سرب می اندازند، لهذا مجازاً تفنگ 

را گویند که آلت انداختن است . بندق نیز گفته اند*. (غیاث ) (آنندراج ). بندق . تفنگ . ج ، بنادیق . (فرهنگ فارسی معین ). تفنگ . ج ، بنادیق . (ناظم الاطباء)۔

​Rough translation: _b*u*nduuq, b*a*nduuq_: a musket and it is derived from _bunduq_ which has -u- (_pesh_) on the first and second (letter) and has the meaning of a ball/bullet in Arabic and because a bullet of iron or lead is fired from a musket, a musket [itself] is therefore figuratively called so, as it is a firing tool. Also called _bunduq_.


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## Treaty

Dib said:


> That Platts entry on banduuq is surprising. It says:
> (from بندق _bunduq_, 'bullet,' 'ball,' the Arabicized form of the Persian _funduq_)
> 
> How come a Persian word has a q? If not Arabic, it must be Turkic then, though I can find no matching Turkish word in dictionary.



There are a lot of Persian words with _q_, especially as the final letter. They were either written under the influence of Aramaic, Arabic or Turkish or re-borrowed from them; or might have been originally (or locally) pronounced closer to _q_ than _k_ or _g_.



marrish said:


> You are right, it is slang for a pistol/gun at least in Karachi and is used quite often, but it is _slang_.
> This is ludicrous - *musaddas* is a well-established literary term for Urdu poetry consisting of *six-versed* stanzas, as especially in _marsiya_s (مرثیہ)!! Now way it can be used for a revolver!!! If one wishes to delve on it, one can say: *shash-zarbii pistaul *along with _chhih-faayar (fire) waalaa, chhih shaaT (shot) waalaa.
> _My view is that *banduuq *for a gun cannot be wrong or_ Ghalatu_l3aam _or even_ Ghalatu_l3awaam _and this is the reason:



_Musaddas _is actually an Arabic word for pistol (called شش لول _shish-luul _in Persian). Maybe it's a very recent loanword from Arabic.


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## littlepond

Hindi mein, Chhatri jii, jaise ki Alfaaz jii zikr kar hii chuke hain, ham bandook/pistaul/tamanche ki trigger ke liye "ghoRaa" ka istemaal bhi karte hain: aapne "ghoRaa dabaa doongaa" to suna hi hogaa. Lekin maine kabhi is shabd ko purii pistaul ke sandarbh mein nahin sunaa, par aisaa ho zaroor saktaa hai.


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## Chhaatr

Thanks everyone!

marrish SaaHib aap ke duusre surprise kii duusrii headline waaqa3ii surprising hai but could not follow rest of it as the font was too small.


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## marrish

Chhaatr said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> marrish SaaHib aap ke duusre surprise kii duusrii headline waaqa3ii surprising hai but could not follow rest of it as the font was too small.


You're most welcome. I have replaced the surprise for better readability. You can right-click on the picture and choose the option ''view: large''. I hope you can read it now.

As you see from the first headline and text, the word ''_pistaul_'' was used for a revolver. You will also find '_chhih fair waalaa_' there.
Also ''_ghoRaa_'' is there in the original sense.


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## Faylasoof

Chhaatr said:


> As a Hindi speaker from Lucknow I am used to saying and hearing _tamanchaa_ and _kaTTaa_ for pistol/revolver (country made weapon) while conversing with friends.
> 
> As an Urdu speaker what words do you use to mean pistol/revolver.  Are any distinctions made between the branded ones and the ones locally made by anti social elements?
> 
> While my question is primarily addressed to Urdu speakers, I welcome contributions from Hindi speaking friends too to see if they use words other than the ones I have listed above.
> 
> Many thanks!


    Chhaatr SaaHib, as an Urdu speaker from Lucknow we say _ta*p*anchah _(from Turkish)_ / pistaul _(from English)_ = pistol / handgun /revolver. _Of course the word _riwaalwar_ (revolver) is used as well amongst Urdu speakers now. Interestingly, we never use _kaTTaa_!


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## marrish

^I've believed _pistaul_ to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.


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## Faylasoof

Treaty said:


> ...
> _Musaddas _is actually an Arabic word for pistol (called شش لول _shish-luul _in Persian). Maybe it's a very recent loanword from Arabic.


Yes, exactly! However, in Urdu it has a different meaning altogether as marrish SaaHib explains above. 
Due to many South Asians having worked in Arab countires it is not surprising that they are bringing words of Arabic usage into Urdu! But I must say _musaddas_ as a revolver I find funny in Urdu because of the much older history of the original Urdu usage of _musaddas_, i.e. a genre of poetry because it contains _sextains_ (a stanza of six lines, as opposed to a _muxammas_ [5], a _murabba3_ [4] and a _muthallath_ [3]). The word _musaddas_ is of course derived from the Arabic verb _*saddasa*_ = to make / turn something six / do or be six times. For this reason, _musaddas_ in Arabic also refers to a hexagon / something being haxagonal. Some might prefer to use the feminine form _musaddasah_ = pistol / hand gun, in Arabic. But the use of either in Urdu sounds quite funny.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> ^I've believed _pistaul_ to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.


 Perhaps we should look this up just for interest. 

Platts has this:

H پسطول _pistol_, _pistūl_ (from the _Eng. or the Port._), s.m. A pistol.

Interesting that he gives the Urdu spelling with a ط and not a ت !


BTW, he also has this: T تمنچه _tamanća_, s.m. A pistol (=_ta*b*anća_) , and our pronunciation of _ta*p*anchah _is closer to this one.


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## marrish

Thanks, I hadn't looked it up. Yes, not only ط is interesting but also [-o-] or [-uu-]! For me there ought to be a clear diphthong.

Alfaaz Sb has included your _tapanchah_ in post #3 so I imagine he must have found it somewhere in Platts. What I know is _tamaNchah_ but _tapanchah_ or _tabanchah_ is not something that I would not be able to understand.

More to that, the Farhang has this definition in which _ta*p*anchah_ (and _tamaNchah_) and a diphthong is used! There is no ط.
_پِستَوْل ۔ اِنگلش پسٹل، اِسمِ مذکر۔ تپنچہ، تفنگچہ، بہت چھوٹا سا تپنچہ، تمنچہ۔
pistaul: English Pistol, pisTal, ism-e-muzakkar- tapanchah, tufaNgchah, bahut chhoTaa saa tapanchah, tamaNchah._


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> ...
> Based on media portrayals: In slang, it seems گھوڑا - _ghoRaa_ is sometimes also used to refer to _pistols/guns/etc._ even though the dictionary definition (#2) describes it as a specific part.
> ...
> (Note: There is no intention of misquoting! It is possible that the information given in the program and summarized below wasn't understood and/or recalled properly!)**
> 
> In a television program, مسدس - _musaddas_ was mentioned for _revolver_. It was said that most revolvers contain six chambers, hence this word was used. Further, it was even suggested that the usage of _banduuq _for _gun_ is a _ghalat-ul-3aam _for the following reasons_:
> _
> 
> _ب_ پر پیش ہے، زبر نہیں
> _بندوق_ در اصل گولی کو یا اس کے خول کو کہتے ہیں
> Platt lists it as b_*a*_nduuq, possibly derived from b_*u*_nduq (meaning bullet, ball) - related to funduq (nut, etc.). It could be that the host misinterpreted this (band_uu_q vs. bund_u_q) or I misinterpreted the information presented!**
> 
> It would be interesting to see forum members' views on this!


   Since marrish SaaHib has already elaborated on the _b*u*nduuq / b*a*nduuq_ issue I needn't add more than just mention that we pronounce it as _b*a*nduuq _and so shall it remain. 

I think the _musaddas_ issue too have been dealt thoroughly by three forum members at least, including yours truly, with added explanation. As to the use of _*ghoRaa*_ for a handgun / pistol / revolver? I think we can all agree that in standard Urdu it just wouldn't do as it refers to the hammer. Given this trend one day we'll hear the word _*lablabii*_ for a gun! In our Urdu usage it actually means _trigger_!


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> Thanks, I hadn't looked it up. Yes, not only ط is interesting but also [-o-] or [-uu-]! For me there ought to be a clear diphthong.
> 
> Alfaaz Sb has included your _tapanchah_ in post #3 so I imagine he must have found it somewhere in Platts. What I know is _tamaNchah_ but _tapanchah_ or _tabanchah_ is not something that I would not be able to understand.
> 
> More to that, the Farhang has this definition in which _ta*p*anchah_ (and _tamaNchah_) and a diphthong is used! There is no ط.
> _پِستَوْل ۔ اِنگلش پسٹل، اِسمِ مذکر۔ تپنچہ، تفنگچہ، بہت چھوٹا سا تپنچہ، تمنچہ۔
> pistaul: English Pistol, pisTal, ism-e-muzakkar- tapanchah, tufaNgchah, bahut chhoTaa saa tapanchah, tamaNchah._


 I hadn't seen Alfaaz SaaHib's post - at least not in full! But yes we always say _tapanchah_ and I agree that it is _pistaul_ (as I have it in my post # 10, above), i.e. a clear dpihthong! .... and we too treat is as _muzakkar_!


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## Dib

marrish said:


> ^I've believed _pistaul_ to come from Portuguese, not from English, but English is equally possible.



Right. Given the dental t, a Portuguese source is more likely. It's dental in Bengali too.



Faylasoof said:


> But I must say _musaddas_ as a revolver I find funny in Urdu because of the much older history of the original Urdu usage of _musaddas_, i.e. a genre of poetry because it contains _sextains_ (a stanza of six lines, as opposed to a _muxammas_ [5], a _murabba3_ [4] and a _muthallath_ [3]).



... and murabba3 (or rather, "morobba" in Bengali pronunciation) for me is a sweet pickle of cubes of green mango.


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## Chhaatr

marrish said:


> You're most welcome. I have replaced the surprise for better readability. You can right-click on the picture and choose the option ''view: large''. I hope you can read it now.
> 
> As you see from the first headline and text, the word ''_pistaul_'' was used for a revolver. You will also find '_chhih fair waalaa_' there.
> Also ''_ghoRaa_'' is there in the original sense.



_bahut, bahut shukriyah dost_.  The surprise is bigger and better now! 



Faylasoof said:


> Interestingly, we never use _kaTTaa_!



Thank you for this Faylasoof SaaHib, looks like this usage in prevalent in Hindi alone.


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## Atiq ahmad

The pitol is in urdu, the katta is in hindi i know these words in 2:languages


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## desi4life

Atiq ahmad said:


> The pitol is in urdu, the katta is in hindi i know these words in 2:languages


“pistaul” is used in both Urdu and Hindi, but “kaTTaa” is used only in Hindi (regional or slang Hindi, as the pistol meaning of “kaTTaa” is not found in standard Hindi dictionaries).


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