# Am I being rude? [requesting reservations by email]



## markwolk

My main languages are French and Polish, yet I have been speaking English every day for the last 12 years, as I live in New Zealand.

Some time ago, I booked a small luxury hotel in an English speaking country. Later, I wrote to that hotel to also book a table for lunch there:





> Hi (first name),
> 
> On the 16 January, we will arrive at (town).
> 
> I will take delivery of a rental car, and (...) we will first all drive to (your hotel) to have lunch and settle in (our room).
> 
> Please be ready for lunch for all of us (5 persons) at 12:30-1:00pm. I will pay for this separately.
> 
> (...)Awaiting your confirmation.
> 
> With thanks,
> 
> Kind regards,


 
And their reply was:





> Recieved your email re lunch, I should just like to say, we dont mind assisting, but the tone of your email is almost a demand, regarding lunch (...), will be fine, it is likely we will have other guests in house for lunch and your table will be available at the appropriate time.
> 
> In future please, our relations can be enhanced with a request not a demand, without further enhancing, I shall leave it there.


 
Huh?   Was my email so rude???


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## elroy

I can see where he was coming from:


> I will take delivery of a rental car, and (...) we will first all drive to (your hotel) to have lunch - whether you like it or not - and settle in (our room).
> 
> Please be ready for lunch for all of us - because it's going to happen - (5 persons) at 12:30-1:00pm. I will pay for this separately.


 The parts in red are the problematic parts.  The parts in blue are what they can be assumed to mean (although I know you did not mean them this way).

Suggestion for the future:

_I would like to ask whether it would be possible to make a reservation for lunch at your hotel for 5 people from 12:30 to 1:00._

_Please let me know if you can accommodate us.  I look forward to your reply._

_Regards,_ 

Basically, avoid the word "will" at any cost!


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## markwolk

Great, thanks. As I wrote to my correspondent later:





> Sorry about the tone of my email re lunch. I should probably have added "if possible" when asking for lunch. Please understand than I am a native Polish speaker, and my main language is still French, since I spent 25 years in Geneva. I believe this kind of misunderstandings do occur due to subtle differences between languages. I.e. the word "demand" in English does not quite have the same meaning as "demande" in French (which is a polite request), so it took me some time to figure out why the English-speaking waiters from whom I "demanded some salt" were grumbling and whispering, whereas it is perfectly OK to "demander" some salt from a French waiter! I'd bet several wars started on issues like this one!


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## .   1

I can't believe the personal affront and tone of the response to the business like business letter you sent to a business to conduct business.
I would suggest a different hotel but as that is probably not an option I would suggest caution when dealing with the person who wrote this odd reply to you.
I think that your e-mail was perfectly respectful.
Edit:
I think that your response is perfect.

.,,


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## Hockey13

I totally agree with .,,. What a rude response from a person who you're going to be _paying_. You are totally in the right.


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## JamesM

I have to say that I would find your initial communication to sound very demanding if you had sent it to me.  There is no option for the hotel to say, "I'm sorry... we're already booked for lunch."   The result is that it sounds like you expect them to do whatever they have to do - including kicking other people out - in order to accommodate your party of five.

I certainly understand, after your explanation, and that it was a misunderstanding, but I do think there is justification for the reaction.


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## markwolk

Hmmm, interesting. Mixed reactions.


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## Hockey13

JamesM said:


> I have to say that I would find your initial communication to sound very demanding if you had sent it to me. There is no option for the hotel to say, "I'm sorry... we're already booked for lunch." The result is that it sounds like you expect them to do whatever they have to do - including kicking other people out - in order to accommodate your party of five.
> 
> I certainly understand, after your explanation, and that it was a misunderstanding, but I do think there is justification for the reaction.


 
If it was a personal email, I would agree with you 100%. However, his email had a tone of business about it and under no circumstances should it have been replied to like it was. Very rude on their part.


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## JamesM

Hockey13 said:


> If it was a personal email, I would agree with you 100%. However, his email had a tone of business about it and under no circumstances should it have been replied to like it was. Very rude on their part.


 
I'd say it had a tone all right. 

When arranging for lunch or accommodations, it is a negotation, not a dictation of conditions and expectations.  That should be reflected in the text of the communication.


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## Anna980

I still think their reply was a bit bizarre - especially considering the fact that they are a hotel and therefore must continuously deal with people who speak much worse English than that!


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## Hockey13

Anna980 said:


> I still think their reply was a bit bizarre - especially considering the fact that they are a hotel and therefore must continuously deal with people who speak much worse English than that!


 
I agree..welcome to the forums!


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## maxiogee

The reply was very unusual, but your English is so good that I imagine that the felt they were corresponding with a native-speaker. It is not so much that you said anything wrong, it is the things which you left out, but which a native-speaker would have included, which makes the email stand out.

I would suggest looking for a different hotel - and being a bit more 'negotiative' in future. Why both? Because the hotel ought to be used to dealing with non-native-speakers, and a clearly understandable booking should not have elicited the response you got. A quiet word with you upon arrival should have sufficed - when a manager would have had a chance to assess your level of mastery of English.


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## Trina

markwolk said:


> Great, thanks. As I wrote to my correspondent later:


I'm sure this made them squirm!

Out of context, your original email could sound a little demanding. However, the recipients are in the hotel industry and should know better. Good business sense surely would be to adopt the "let's wait and see"  or "let's not be too hasty to judge". 

We're probably all guilty of jumping to the wrong conclusion at some time or other and this thread is a good reminder to us all to wait until all the facts are in before we act.


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## Hockey13

Trina said:


> I'm sure this made them squirm!
> 
> Out of context, your original email could sound a little demanding. However, the recipients are in the hotel industry and should know better. Good business sense surely would be to adopt the "let's wait and see" or "let's not be too hasty to judge".
> 
> We're probably all guilty of jumping to the wrong conclusion at some time or other and this thread is a good reminder to us all to wait until all the facts are in before we act.


 
Well said!


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## KaRiNe_Fr

Thanks Markwolk, this thread is really helpful for me too! Is it a French thing?  I already experimented "dry" replies from my business relations as I surely have been seen as a rude woman demanding into my emails instead of requesting. This was because of my lack of English language skills of course. I'm always astonished receiving such emails. Now I'm adding some "would you mind" everywhere, even when things have to be done and there would be no way they didn't want to do them. Our relations are more peaceful now.


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## foxfirebrand

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> I already experimented "dry" replies from my business relations...


What a fortuitous example of differences between French and English!  _Experience_ is not quite as false a friend as _demander_, but it has led you astray here.

We use _experiment_ for tests such as those conducted in scientific laboratories.  But in the sense you are using the word, _experience_ is correct in English.  You've _experienced_ "dry" replies!  

In a way, it's the same situation as _demander_, but in reverse.
.
.


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## KaRiNe_Fr

foxfirebrand said:


> [...]You've _experienced_ "dry" replies!
> In a way, it's the same situation as _demander_, but in reverse.


Rhâââââ!   Beginner's mistake again. Really funny in this thread indeed (but not on purpose... grrr!).


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## gaer

Brioche said:


> The hotel has actually done Markwolk good turn by helping him understand the cultural norms of his intended destination. When in Rome, and all that.
> A spoonfull of honey catches more flies than a bucket of vinegar.


I think the email from the hotel was somewhat rude. Most likely the person who wrote it was either having a bad day or is used to "one-upping" people.

Markwolk's email sounded "foreign" to me. There are several words he used that made me think immediately that English is not his first language.

I think the "hotel-guy" (or woman) was looking for a fight.


> The American attitude is that if a customer is paying, then the person providing the service must adopt a servile and subservient role.
> [slight exaggeration]


The "American attitude" is also that in a country the deals with an incredible number of people who do not speak English as their first language it is unwise to take offense without first ASKING for clarification.

The hotel did not do this.


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## Hockey13

I think there is something to be said for a business that values its customers. However, _Clerks_ is one of my favorite movies ever. When working, I do not respect customers who make an effort to disrespect me, but as I am asking them for their business, it should be my duty to extend the bridge of respect _first_ if they are neutral. Also, the hotel industry is full of competition...their reply email was just bad business sense.


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## gaer

Hockey13 said:


> I think there is something to be said for a business that values its customers. However, _Clerks_ is one of my favorite movies ever. When working, I do not respect customers who make an effort to disrespect me, but as I am asking them for their business, it should be my duty to extend the bridge of respect _first_ if they are neutral. Also, the hotel industry is full of competition...their reply email was just bad business sense.


I could not agree more. It would have been a simple matter to ask the intention of the emailer, and the reply could have been written more quickly.


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## .   1

KaRiNe_Fr said:


> Thanks Markwolk, this thread is really helpful for me too! Is it a French thing?  I already experimented "dry" replies from my business relations as I surely have been seen as a rude woman demanding into my emails instead of requesting. This was because of my lack of English language skills of course. I'm always astonished receiving such emails. Now I'm adding some "would you mind" everywhere, even when things have to be done and there would be no way they didn't want to do them. Our relations are more peaceful now.


I experienced something like this last year.  I corresponded with a French woman for a few months but it didn't work out for a number of reasons.  Now that I think of it I do remember being struck by the precision of her writing.  The writing was very formal and full of punctuation points!  I am not used to the use of punctuation points and I found the tone that they gave was snippy and I found that I began to look for criticism where there probably was not any negativity present.
Her command of English was quite excellent and I think that this confused me because I thought that she intentionally constructed sentences finishing in punctuation points but this is not the case.  Is it possible that French has a different approach to communication and is less circumspect at times than is English?

.,,


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## maxiogee

Hockey13 said:


> When working, I do not respect customers who make an effort to disrespect me,



I used to be a branch manager for the Irish arm of Blockbuster video.
If you knew what the staff thought about many of our customers you'd be very polite to them. 
Ever had an overdue fee which the staff refused to negotiate downwards? 
— Maybe they didn't like your attitude the last time you were in!

Ever had a fee you really did owe wiped off without even asking for it? 
— Maybe you've got a friend for life there


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## natasha2000

maxiogee said:


> I used to be a branch manager for the Irish arm of Blockbuster video.
> If you knew what the staff thought about many of our customers you'd be very polite to them.
> Ever had an overdue fee which the staff refused to negotiate downwards?
> — Maybe they didn't like your attitude the last time you were in!
> 
> Ever had a fee you really did owe wiped off without even asking for it?
> — Maybe you've got a friend for life there


 
hehehe.... This is something similar to my experience on reception desk in a hotel...

A nice smile and a pleasant word made me do impossible to make guests feel better, even if they didn't ask for it. 
A nasty attitude trying to give me a hard time only because he does not like his room, always resulted in my big smile and: "I am soo sorry, but this is the only room we have. Tha hotel is completely booked during the whole month and I simply cannot change you the room you don't like." Even if a hotel has half booked capacities.


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## gaer

. said:


> I experienced something like this last year. I corresponded with a French woman for a few months but it didn't work out for a number of reasons. Now that I think of it I do remember being struck by the precision of her writing. The writing was very formal and full of punctuation points! I am not used to the use of punctuation points and I found the tone that they gave was snippy and I found that I began to look for criticism where there probably was not any negativity present.
> Her command of English was quite excellent and I think that this confused me because I thought that she intentionally constructed sentences finishing in punctuation points but this is not the case. Is it possible that French has a different approach to communication and is less circumspect at times than is English?
> 
> .,,


Let me share my own experience. I read no language other than English except German. For this reason I am able to "feel" the "tone" of an email or letter sent to me in both German and English.

It's different. Even people in Germany who write English very well sound more relaxed in German. Much of the humor seems to disappear in English.

To experience this, you have to try to write in another language to someone who does not understand English. It is hard.

Sometimes people who use English as a second language are really rude. There are rude people everywhere.

But I think it pays to be very careful before making the judgement that the feeling of rudeness is coming from the person and not from unease with our language.

This is why I always "cut people slack" when they are writing to me in MY language when it is obviously not their language. 

That to me is the point.

Look at this:



markwolk said:


> Please be ready for lunch for all of us (5 persons) at 12:30-1:00pm. I will pay for this separately.


In other languages different words and structures are used to "soften" requests. In my opinion the person who received this email (the hotel employee) and assumed it was a rude statement from a native speaker was looking for a fight.

On the other hand, if he (or she) had had a very bad day, I think the reaction is understandable—although not good for business.


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## natasha2000

gaer said:


> In my opinion the person who received this email (the hotel employee) and assumed it was a rude statement from a native speaker was looking for a fight.
> 
> On the other hand, if he (or she) had had a very bad day, I think the reaction is understandable—although not good for business.


 
I think that no matter how rude the request was/is, an employee simply cannot answer in a way they answered. I find it very unusual, I can dare to say, rather astonishing. You can show to a client that you don't like his attitude in many ways, but not in this way. Even if the clerk has the worst day of his life, if I were his boss, and get to know about this answer, I would have a serious thought about firing him/her. As you said, it is very BAD, BAD business. And it is NOT about American way and "the customer is always right". Not at all. The example that Maxiogee gave is a perfect one on how an employee can give a hard time to a client without client being aware that he is given a hard time.


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## JamesM

I don't understand what is so horrific in the email reply from the hotel.  The two snippets that are at all controversial are:

"but the tone of your email is almost a demand,"

and

"our relations can be enhanced with a request not a demand,"


This is worth firing someone over?


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## Hockey13

JamesM said:


> I don't understand what is so horrific in the email reply from the hotel. The two snippets that are at all controversial are:
> 
> "but the tone of your email is almost a demand,"
> 
> and
> 
> "our relations can be enhanced with a request not a demand,"
> 
> 
> This is worth firing someone over?


 
Not firing, in my opinion, but certainly a strong rebuke.


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## JamesM

Hockey13 said:


> Not firing, in my opinion, but certainly a strong rebuke.


 
Interesting.  Perhaps it is a difference in preferences.

I would rather have someone tell me, "What you're saying is sounding very rude" rather than do the passive-aggressive thing and declare my lunch table "unavailable" or make me wait until 5 p.m.  to check in.

The person accommodated everything that the customer desired when it would have been just as easy to invent some reason not to be helpful and not try to clear up the communication.

Personally, I'd much rather have someone serve me and at the same time let me know that I'm not communicating well than not tell me about my communication and not serve me.


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## Hockey13

JamesM said:


> Interesting. Perhaps it is a difference in preferences.
> 
> I would rather have someone tell me, "What you're saying is sounding very rude" rather than do the passive-aggressive thing and declare my lunch table "unavailable" or make me wait until 5 p.m. to check in.
> 
> The person accommodated everything that the customer desired when it would have been just as easy to invent some reason not to be helpful and not try to clear up the communication.
> 
> Personally, I'd much rather have someone serve me and at the same time let me know that I'm not communicating well than not tell me about my communication and not serve me.


 
I agree that the tone could be politely checked, but only if the hotel person knows he is a foreigner. The bit that still bothers me, however, is:

"...our relations can be enhanced with a request not a demand."

In my opinion, this is just rude.


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## elroy

I generally agree with James.  I imagine the hotel guy as a nice guy who was taken aback by the perceived presumptuousness of the e-mail message.  He clearly indicated his willingness and readiness to accommodate the request, adding a personal remark advising the customer to be a little more tactful next time.  Maybe, just maybe, he was being frank instead of specious this time - fancy that!  Furthermore, consider the fact that if he had not responded this way Markwolk would not have asked us about his e-mail and gotten feedback about the possibility of misunderstanding.  Regardless of what has been said about the original e-mail's being strictly professional and all, it cannot be denied that there is reason to see it as forward, blunt, and demanding.  In such correspondence, it is advisable to destroy - or at least decrease - the possibility of misinterpretation by choosing the most unambiguous and unobjectionable tone possible.


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## ~Angel~

hmm.. intesresting!
Happens to me .. all the time!
I knew I wasn't alone.. but glad to hear it from other peeps!
The inuendos that only a native-speaker would catch ..

My first language is french.. and when I talk sarcastiscally to my hubby( qui est 'ricain' et ne parle pas un mot francais... lol ) or anyone else .. they don't get it,they just don't get the joke and think that I am dead serious.. nearly got a friend really mad last time..
pffft


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## markwolk

maxiogee said:


> The reply was very unusual, but your English is so good that I imagine that the felt they were corresponding with a native-speaker.


Yeah; I'll remember next time to sprinkle a few mistakes here and there, so my English looks less perfect, and there are fewer misunderstandings. Quite typical of me to to be too close to perfection, yet not there. Thanks for all the comments here; quite useful! Ah yes; the person who replied to my mail was not an employee, contrarily to what some of you have assumed; he is the hotel's owner, I think. I assume he does not speak any other language than English and this was the main reason of the problem.


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## shrek99

I think you hurt their feelings! It is more usual to request whether it is possible to make a reservation for a table of five at such and such a time. Your imperative ' Please be ready' ruined the friendship by inferring possible incompetence on their behalf. Having said that, the tourism industry that I have experienced in NZ is so wonderful that you may have been slightly off track for years and never known it.


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## Anais Ninn

Here are some quick and easy tips for your future reference. 

1. When you want to request something and you can't quickly think of a good(?) way to do so, try making it in a form of a question.

example: Please be ready. => Could you get ready?/Would you be able to get ready?

2. Choose *would like to* over *will*.

example: We will have lunch there. => We would like to have lunch there.

3. phrases like if possible, if it's ok, if you don't mind wouldn't hurt.  

Anais


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## mjscott

The whole response from the hotel person (clerk or owner) sounds like PMS to me. Please, I'm not trying to tick off 50% of the population....

....It's like the joke,

_"Why does it take 4 women in a bathroom with PMS to change the light bulb?"_

--_Because it just DOES, OK?!??_


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## JamesM

mjscott said:


> The whole response from the hotel person (clerk or owner) sounds like PMS to me. Please, I'm not trying to tick off 50% of the population....
> 
> ....It's like the joke,
> 
> _"Why does it take 4 women in a bathroom with PMS to change the light bulb?"_
> 
> --_Because it just DOES, OK?!??_


 
Out of curiosity, how would you have responded?


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## mjscott

Hi (first name),

On the 16 January, we will arrive at (town).

I will take delivery of a rental car, and (...) we will first all drive to (your hotel) to have lunch and settle in (our room).

Please be ready for lunch for all of us (5 persons) at 12:30-1:00pm. I will pay for this separately.

(...)Awaiting your confirmation.

With thanks,

Kind regards,

_First, with all your "I will's," I would assume that English probably wasn't your first language. A native English speaker would have just said, "The five of us are due to arrive at...." With your ending of, "Kind regards," I would have also assumed that you were being cordial. I would have responded asking to clarify another assumption--that you were requesting a reservation for 12:30 at the restaurant._

_Dear Visitor,_
_   Thank you for making Our Hotel your choice while visiting Smalltown. You will also find that our restaurant will satisfy a variety of appetites and even has a special heart-conscious menu. I am assuming you are requesting a reservation in the restaurant for 12:30--as opposed to eating in the adjoining rooms with the lanai overlooking the swimming pool. Please advise the desk upon checking in if room service is your preference. Otherwise, we will assume that it is a reservation to dine in our fine restaurant._
_   Again, thank you for choosing Our Hotel. We are looking forward to serving you!_
_Cordially,_
_John Doe_
_Hotel Clerk, Manager and Owner_
_Our Hotel_

I don't think the respondent should have chastized you for your tone--although it seemed a bit brusque. If you are in business--especially in a business where you meet people from all corners of the world and all walks, you have to suppose that some of them will have a different tone....

....Even some moderators have seemed brusque in chastizing people for posting in wrong places, or for whatever. You learn that different people communicate differently--and might not even be meaning to sound rude or brusque. But if you're in the HOTEL business, you should even be more aware of that!

An eye-opener for all of us!


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## gaer

mjscott said:


> I don't think the respondent should have chastized you for your tone--although it seemed a bit brusque. If you are in business--especially in a business where you meet people from all corners of the world and all walks, you have to suppose that some of them will have a different tone....


That was my point. If the response was written by the owner of the hotel, I would assume he (or she) knows very little about international communciation!


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## natasha2000

I just want to say I agree with mjscott a 100%, and now knowing that the answer was written by the owner, even more. How little he/she knows about the business and communication. If he expects of all his guests to speak as he imagines, then he will have very few guests.

Once I worked at organizing an Orthodontic congress, and I was receiving a lot of emails from doctors who asked my help to get a reservation in the hotel which was the venue of the congress. It WAS NOT my job, but I received many emails like: I want a room in XXX hotel. Signed. Dr. XXX" "Please arrange me the room", "A room please" , etc. Very short and demanding emails. So, according to this owner, I should have answered, "you are so unpolite and demanding, so go to hell and book your room yourself!" No. I did not. I contacted the agency who did it and made all those reservations. I repeat, it was not my job, nevertheless, I did it.


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## JamesM

natasha2000 said:


> So, according to this owner, I should have answered, "you are so unpolite and demanding, so go to hell and book your room yourself!" No. I did not. I contacted the agency who did it and made all those reservations. I repeat, it was not my job, nevertheless, I did it.


 
This seems like a gross exaggeration of the response received.  I can understand that we would like to have all communications be totally understanding and executed with perfect equanimity, but everyone has their days.  

However, the owner didn't say, "go to hell".  He didn't refuse any one of the demands.  He didn't say, "I won't do this until you say it nicely." 

It was good of you to handle the demanding emails the way that you did.   It would be great if all people in the hospitality industry were as polite as you were in that instance.  I think a little of that patience you showed with the orthodontists could be spared for the hotel owner as well.

Misunderstandings happen.  Sometimes it's cultural, sometimes it's something else.  I don't understand why the guest should receive all possible latitude in his communication and the hotel owner none.  Perhaps it's just a difference of opinion.


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## natasha2000

JamesM said:


> I don't understand why the guest should receive all possible latitude in his communication and the hotel owner none. Perhaps it's just a difference of opinion.


 
Yes, I admit, I exagerate but on purpose. I guess it's cultural thing with Serbs, when we talk about something we like to exagerate in order to give better impression of/about something. 

Of course the guest cannot say whatever he wants, but I still think that this kind of "preaching on good behavior" should be done only in extreme cases, and I think that the case of the starter of this thread wasn't the case of extreme rudness. By extreme cases I consider a person who openly insults or behaves in extremely inapropirate way. It's just my opinion and my conclusion was drawn from a little of experience in hospitality industry I have. It is BAD business to try to correct the behavior or the way of thinking of your guests. There are many other ways to show him you don't agree with his behavior.



> It would be great if all people in the hospitality industry were as polite as you were in that instance.


 
I will tell you one little incident while I was working in a reception of a hotel. 
We had a group of 25 young English vaterpolo or something like that players (I don't remeber exactly right now). All guys of the age between 18 to 25. The first night they came, they spent all night in the hotel bar which was next to the reception, drinking beer. The bar was a little one, and it was not supposed to be all night full, it was rather supposed to be a place where you can wait for your friend/spouse/whatever while they are in their rooms, or to have a quick coffee or drink before going out, therefore there was not a waiter, but the bellboy was supposed to serve drinks. But whith 20 of them there during all night, the bellboy was only serving them, and he couldn't atteng properly other guests that were coming to check in, my cash box soon was left without any change, and as the night was going by, they were each time louder, and as much as I asked them politely to low down their voices, they didn't pay any attention to me. 
These orgies repeated each night during three days, and I was not the only receptionist affected by their unconsiderable behavior. The third day I just said with a polite smile that we have ran out of beer and I ran out of change, and that I am really sorry. Of course, it was a notorious lie, but this was the only way to get them out of the hotel and to get some sleep for other guests.


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## .   1

natasha2000 said:


> Of course, it was a notorious lie, but this was the only way to get them out of the hotel and to get some sleep for other guests.


A notorious lie...
What a wonderfully evocative phrase.
I have not seen this construction before but I instantly understood your meaning.
You were lying and they knew you knew they knew.

.,,


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## natasha2000

. said:


> A notorious lie...
> What a wonderfully evocative phrase.
> I have not seen this construction before but I instantly understood your meaning.
> You were lying and they knew you knew they knew.
> 
> .,,


 
Ups. It seems I made a literal translation from Serbian... So, this construction does not exist in English????
By the way, it also means a gross lie and shameless, too, since we had more beer and I still had change. But they were too noisy, and I already had some complaints from other guests, so this was the only thing I could do in order to have "wolfs full and all sheep alive"  (another literal translation meaning to have all parties happy)...


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## gaer

natasha2000 said:


> Ups. It seems I made a literal translation from Serbian... So, this construction does not exist in English????


"Notorious lie" does exist, but in general I believe you would be safest to use this term for a "famous lie".

You might have meant "obvious lie", but I think we all got your point!

Sometimes there are people who are incapable of understanding facts. If I have tried to be honest in the past and have been rewarded for it by being treated rudely, I have NO problem lying in the future to avoid unpleasantness. 


> By the way, it also means a gross lie and shameless, too, since we had more beer and I still had change. But they were too noisy, and I already had some complaints from other guests, so this was the only thing I could do in order to have "wolfs full and all sheep alive"  (another literal translation meaning to have all parties happy)...


I like "shameless lie"! It's so much more colorful than "obvious". Gross and shameless? One possibility: "egregious lie".

I do think that you or any other person who is providing any kind of service has the right to be a nasty as any customer, but it is also true that "venting" is not a very good way to make money.


JamesM said:


> I don't understand why the guest should receive all possible latitude in his communication and the hotel owner none. Perhaps it's just a difference of opinion.


I don't think it has a thing to do with opinion. It has to do with making money. At what point do you say, to quote a line from an old movie (Network), "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

In my business I should never lose my temper at a student either. It's bad business. Sometimes, however, bad business is good for my stomach and allows me to avoid a migraine.


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## maxiogee

I think in everyday English the expression would be "a downright lie".


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## gaer

maxiogee said:


> I think in everyday English the expression would be "a downright lie".


How about "brazen lie"?

I never realized there were so many colorful ways to describe being rude without using "four-letter words"!


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## natasha2000

Thank you very much, I have learnt two wonderful words more! 
egregious lie
downright lie


PS: And there goes the third one: brazen lie!!!


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## Dust!

Hi everyone.
I'm a owner of two hotels and I've to admit that an email like that one [the first one of this topic] would make me behave and reply in the same way of that owner.
its tone sounds like if I must do all he asks.
 it is business, it is true, but I've also the right to choose right customers.
it is me who is selling after all.


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## natasha2000

Dust! said:


> Hi everyone.
> I'm a owner of two hotels and I've to admit that an email like that one [the first one of this topic] would make me behave and reply in the same way of that owner.
> its tone sounds like if I must do all he asks.
> it is business, it is true, but I've also the right to choose right customers.
> it is me who is selling after all.


 
And what would you do if one of your staff responded to the same letter in the same way? I assume this owner saw this e-mail accidentally, since I suppose owners have other things to do. As far as I remember, the owner of the hotel where I worked wasn't exactly checking emails, and serving guests on the phone or at the reception...


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## Dust!

I'm still at reception at this moment.
It is a little hotel, that's also right.

If I had to say the truth, I've never get an email written like that one. And if a staff comes to me saying 'there is a customer who wants this, this and this other one thing and  I've just booked him a room'  I probably wont confirm that staff for the next year.
And I also think that if a staff get an email like that one, before replying, he surely ask to the owner. Surely.

I hope to have been polite. if you set me right about english I'll appreciate it


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## maxiogee

Dust! said:


> Hi everyone.
> I'm a owner of two hotels and I've to admit that an email like that one [the first one of this topic] would make me behave and reply in the same way of that owner.
> its tone sounds like if I must do all he asks.
> it is business, it is true, but I've also the right to choose right customers.
> it is me who is selling after all.



…and you won't sell much if you offend your customers by not allowing for small misunderstandings of language.


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## roxcyn

> Hi (first name),
> 
> On the 16 January, we will arrive at (town).
> 
> I will take delivery of a rental car, and (...) we will first all drive to (your hotel) to have lunch and settle in (our room).
> 
> Please be ready for lunch for all of us (5 persons) at 12:30-1:00pm. I will pay for this separately.
> 
> (...)Awaiting your confirmation.
> 
> With thanks,
> 
> Kind regards,



When you are only considering your needs and demanding that someone do soemthing for you, they will consider that you are being very demanding (overbearing) and  as you see you will get a reply such as you received or you will not receive a reply at all.  Let's try to improve what you wrote.  

04 November 2006

Dear (such and such) OR To Whom It May Concern:

Your hotel has provided such wonderful service when I have stayed there before.  I have a request and I hope your hotel could fullfill it.  On (date), I would like to have lunch with four other people at your hotel from ____ to ____ (time).  If this comes at an inconvience to other parties or if your lunches are all booked up at your hotel, I will understand.  

Please contact me as soon as possible to let me know if there will be room.  If there is not, could you recommend other places for lunch?  Thank you very much in advance.  I will await your reply.

Sincerely yours,


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## roxcyn

I must comment on what other people have said refering to the person that should not be rude.  

Let me tell you, email can be "read" in so many ways.  Just because the worker should be professional, if she/he is being treated rudely (like sh**), then there may be a witty or rude reply back.  Remember, no one likes to be demanded to do something, especially a hotel as there may be other obligations that they have scheduled for other groups


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## roxcyn

One last comment, I know it is email, but you can be more formal to them, and I think it will give you more respect and they will be more likely to grant your request.


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## .   1

I am still at a loss to understand the reply.
I am led to believe that one of the main profit earning areas of a motel is the restaurant and I would have thought that the owner would have been delighted that you had confirmed five meals for lunch which should be a slow time at a motel restaurant.
I have a suspicion that the writer is a little confused as to the intimacy of the relationship between paying guest and employed motel.

This is not the same as the relationship between Aunt Mabel and her relations.

There are no favours being asked. And the writer is being pedantic with the use of demand but it is quite right. It is a demand backed up with the offer of payment in Legal Tender.
It sounds like the hotel is run by a Basil Fawlty clone who thinks that paying guests are a pain and should be left to their own devices but that the guests should pay handsomly for the experience.

I will concede that there is a possibility that the initial e-mail sounded slightly demanding but it also was written quite clearly and lucidly so that no mistake in intention could be made and it is by no means impolite or demeaning in tone. If anything the tone is acceptance that the quite reasonable requests will be able to be supplied by the motel. 

Continual insincere polite words must sprinkle such requests often at the expense of clarity.

This motel has decided to exert psychological pressure on a guest based on the interpretation of a tone in a politely worded request for a paying business transaction before the business transaction has taken place. This is weird and I would not feel comfortable to share the hospitality of that person. That person is obviously continually surrounded by egg shells that everybody else has to make sure that they don't break because the grump will snap back at the slightest even imagined provocation as has happened in this case.

This is the sort of place that could result in starched sheets or a blocked toilet or a noisy neighbour or any number of petty little irritants that this mug may deem fit to do to you for whatever slight they have imagined that you did to them.

Motels sell the concept of comfortable places to sleep and eat and be pampered slightly due to the stresses of travelling or the winding down of holidaying or the hassle of business dealings and the assumption is that a certain number of specific requests will be readily agreed to in the name of profit and pleasure.
It is the pleasure of the guest to bring an additional three patrons to a motel and it is the money that flows from that transaction that allows the motel to exist. Who should thank whom?

.,,


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## natasha2000

Dot&Commas, I wish all hotel owners thought like you. 
You would be a great one...

The thing is.. First things first. And in hotel business, (lke in any other business) the first thing is good business which means, earning money. You will earn money if your guests leave your hotel satisfied with the service, not if they received the sermon on good behavior.
I was thinking about another thing. How many stars does this hotel have? I am inclined to think that the more stars, the better service (thus, more expensive), therfore, the less possibility that something like this happens. I can imagine (very hard, but I can) in some hotel up to 3 stars, but in a hotel of 4 or 5, I think it is almost impossible.


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