# Urdu/Hindi: mujhe/mein mere



## Alfaaz

Background: Sentences such as those listed below can sometimes be heard on television and in movies: 

"Mujhe meri/e mom/dad se puchna hoga" _instead of apni/apne
_"Mein meri kitaab/pustak mein se dekh ke tumhain batata hoon" _instead of apni
_"Hum humari gaRi mein jaate hain; aap apki gaRi mein jaaein" _instead of apni
_
Question: Would the sentences above be considered grammatically correct in Urdu or Hindi?


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## Illuminatus

I heard them once in a while too, but I think they are still considered ungrammatical in Standard Hindi.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> Background: Sentences such as those listed below can sometimes be heard on television and in movies:
> 
> "Mujhe meri/e mom/dad se puchna hoga" _instead of apni/apne
> _"Mein meri kitaab/pustak mein se dekh ke tumhain batata hoon" _instead of apni
> _"Hum humari gaRi mein jaate hain; aap apki gaRi mein jaaein" _instead of apni
> _
> Question: Would the sentences above be considered grammatically correct in Urdu or Hindi?




Although some may cite this as another case of natural evolution following very closely the principles laid down by Charles Darwin formulated after his "cruise" on the HMS Beagle to the Galapagos islands, I have an absolute  aversion for this usage. Even though I rarely sit through a whole movie these days, I have mainly heard it on Bollywood films of the modern enlightened era. As Illuminatus SaaHib has indicated, most people, even as late as 2012, would consider it grammatically wrong.

It might be interesting to note that there is nothing wrong in this kind of usage in English and Arabic (and I am sure in many many more languages). But in Urdu-Hindi, Punjabi and in other daughters of Sanskrit (as far as I know) we need to employ "apnaa" or similar word. In correct Persian the word "xud" is used to serve this purpose.

Here is a link where this topic is discussed in quite some detail, if you have the time or the inclination.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt....e409fa686f0314?tvc=1&q=naseer+uvr+apnaa+meraa

It is entitled "Urdu zabaan se vaabastah chand baateN 2". If you wish to read 1 and the subsequent threads, be my guest.


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## Alfaaz

Illuminatus and Qureshpor: Thanks for the replies and for the link! Yes (as mentioned in another thread) it can be heard being used in Bollywood films, recently Don 2.


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## nineth

Using apna/apni/apne is the right style here. I won't consider "mai meri gaaDi mein...", etc. grammatically incorrect, but just not good style when speaking normally.  However, to be emphatic, or to express certain emotions (say sarcasm), or in the rhetoric, I don't see anything wrong with using the latter. I won't find it weird or odd if someone uses "mai meri ..." or "tum tumhaarey ..." and I expect the same with  native Hindi speakers.


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## marrish

This usage sounds very bad to my ears, and it is just not correct in Urdu. 

I can imagine some situations, however, where it may be used logically: suppose one is very happy and proud owner of, let's say, of a car, and his/her emotional attachment to it is very strong. Upon being asked whether somebody may use it, the owner behaves somewhat hysterical, and goes on saying: yih merii gaaRii hai, yih merii gaaRii hai, yih meri gaaRii hai, maiN use merii gaaRii nahiiN duuN gaa.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> This usage sounds very bad to my ears, and it is just not correct in Urdu.
> 
> I can imagine some situations, however, where it may be used logically: suppose one is very happy and proud owner of, let's say, of a car, and his/her emotional attachment to it is very strong. Upon being asked whether somebody may use it, the owner behaves somewhat hysterical, and goes on saying: yih merii gaaRii hai, yih merii gaaRii hai, yih meri gaaRii hai, maiN use merii gaaRii nahiiN duuN gaa.




Will this fit in with "vuh use us kii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa"?


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## marrish

I don't think so. I don't think any rule can be made  into a full pattern to justify its use. However, I can imagine (imagination working!) that when your sentence is uttered with sarcasm, derogatorily, in function of reported speech, and with the stress on _us kii,_ then, maybe yes?


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## nineth

QURESHPOR said:


> Will this fit in with "vuh use us kii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa"?



_uskii_ adds ambiguity here which can be avoided by using apni (if that's what the speaker intends); the ambiguity itself doesn't make such constructions grammatically incorrect.


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## marrish

nineth said:


> _uskii_ adds ambiguity here which can be avoided by using apni (if that's what the speaker intends); the ambiguity itself doesn't make such constructions grammatically incorrect.


 What you state is obvious, regarding the use of apnii. The problem is that in normal context and in standard language, at least in Urdu, such construction is grammatically incorrect!


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## nineth

marrish said:


> What you state is obvious, regarding the use of apnii. The problem is that in normal context and in standard language, at least in Urdu, such construction is grammatically incorrect!



My comments have only been in the context of Hindi, and I don't consider it grammatically incorrect.


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> My comments have only been in the context of Hindi, and I don't consider it grammatically incorrect.



Are your comments solely linked to spoken Hindi or do they extend to the written language as well? Would children, just to take an example, score full marks in their Hindi examination if they were to use "maiN merii" "vuh us kii" etc?


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## nineth

QURESHPOR said:


> Are your comments solely linked to spoken  Hindi or do they extend to the written language as well? Would children,  just to take an example, score full marks in their Hindi examination if  they were to use "maiN merii" "vuh us kii" etc?


Please see my first comment on this; it applies to both spoken and written Hindi.


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## Qureshpor

nineth said:


> Please see my first comment on this; it applies to both spoken and written Hindi.



Maybe I am missing something. Your first post (post 5) does n't mention anything about the written language. So, you are saying that "maiN merii kitaab meN dekh kar tumheN bataataa huuN" is grammatically correct written Hindi and the best of Hindi writers would use it without any public condemnation?


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## nineth

I'll state it again. The following opinion of mine applies to both spoken and written Hndi.

- such usage is not good style except in some contexts -- when being emphatic, when expressing certain emotions (say sarcasm), or in the rhetoric
- such usage is grammatically correct


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Background: Sentences such as those listed below can sometimes be heard on television and in movies:
> 
> "Mujhe meri/e mom/dad se puchna hoga" _instead of apni/apne_
> "Mein meri kitaab/pustak mein se dekh ke tumhain batata hoon" _instead of apni_
> "Hum humari gaRi mein jaate hain; aap apki gaRi mein jaaein" _instead of apni_
> 
> Question: Would the sentences above be considered grammatically correct in Urdu or Hindi?


 I agree with all my colleagues here who consider all of the above as _grammatically incorrect_!!  This is not just from the perspective of Hindi but also Urdu grammar,  which are in agreement nearly all the time, and here exactly the same  rules apply to both! 



> Will this fit in with "vuh use us kii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa"?


 Grammatically this is indeed correct but ambiguous in not only  Hindi and Urdu but English as well! For the latter the ambiguity is not  just in the gender of _use_ and _us kii _ when translated  into English, as shown, but it is in the sense that here we don't know  whether we are talking of just two people or is there a third party too!  This applies to all three languages!

_vuh use us kii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa_
He shall not give him / her his / her car!

To remove any ambiguity we can say:

_vuh use us kii apnii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa_
_vuh use us kii xud kii gaaRii nahiiN de gaa_
 etc.

As for: _maiN merii kitaab meN dekh kar tumheN bataataa huuN_

This is definitely not correct whether we are talking of Standard Hindi or Urdu! The correct form is indeed with _apnii_ as has been indicated above (post # 3).

_maiN apnii kitaab meN dekh kar tumheN bataataa huuN_

Also for this,


> maiN use merii gaaRii nahiiN duuN gaa.


 We would put it as _maiN use apnii gaaRii nahiiN duuN gaa._


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## Alfaaz

Thanks for replying everyone! I'd agree that these are usually considered grammatically incorrect, but are still used...


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## tonyspeed

In some dialects is apnaa also used for main as in : "apne ko to bas paanii nikaalnaa hai"?


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## Englishmypassion

Yes, tony, that is certainly used but that is not standard Hindi. You will often hear "Apne ko koi fark nhi padta", " Apna kya jata hai" etc.


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## littlepond

While "apnaa kyaa jaataa hai" is idiomatic, fine Hindi for me, a phrase like "apne ko to bas paanii nikaalnaa hai" (a very strange sentence, btw, irrespective of muh/apne) is bad Hindi: I don't think many Hindi speakers use such a Hindi. I have a suspicion that such Hindi might be in use by certain non-native speakers of Hindi, esp. Marathi speakers.


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