# Saturni aurea saecla quis requirat? [Sidonius Apollinaris]



## ahmedcrow

I tried google translating and online dictionaries to get the meaning of this Latin epigram but I faild, can anyone know what dose it mean in English?

"Saturni aurea saecla quis requirat? 
Sunt haec gemmea, sed Neroniana."


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## NotNow

Who wants back Saturn and his golden age?
We have the diamond age -- Naronian.

I found the translation in _Delphi Complete Works of Sidonius Apollinaris_ which is available online.

I would translate it as:

Who misses Saturn and his golden age?
[After all,] we have the diamond age.

Please note, however, that my Latin is still rudimentary, but it is improving every day.


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## Agró

Saturn's Golden Age, who wants that back?
Ours is bejewelled-but ruled by Nero.
here


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## ahmedcrow

NotNow said:


> Who wants back Saturn and his golden age?
> We have the diamond age -- Naronian.
> 
> I found the translation in _Delphi Complete Works of Sidonius Apollinaris_ which is available online.
> 
> I would translate it as:
> 
> Who misses Saturn and his golden age?
> [After all,] we have the diamond age.
> 
> Please note, however, that my Latin is still rudimentary, but it is improving every day.



It's beautiful thing to do efforts you can to help, thank you, the epigram is more clear now and I understood it.


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## ahmedcrow

Agró said:


> Saturn's Golden Age, who wants that back?
> Ours is bejewelled-but ruled by Nero.
> here



It's beautiful translation. The link doesn't seem workingin my country, but it doesn't matter, I'm happy for knowing the translation  thanks


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## Scholiast

salvete amici! And a warm welcome to WR (Latin Forum) for ahmedcrow.

If I chip in here with a couple of remarks, please do not regard it as patronising, even if you know already these things.

First, _Saturnus_ was the mythological father of Jupiter, hence arch-ancestor of the Roman divinities. Reference therefore to the 'age(s) of Saturn' is to an incalculably distant past—mythically a time of plenteousness and universal felicity for humankind.

Secondly, _aurea saecla_ is plural, the 'golden ages'. In the context, this may make little difference (for metrical convenience Latin poets often used singular forms for plural and vice versa).

Σ

Edit: I should have added: Google translate is utterly useless for inflected languages. It would be worse than useless for translation into Arabic.


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## ahmedcrow

Scholiast said:


> salvete amici! And a warm welcome to WR (Latin Forum) for ahmedcrow.
> 
> If I chip in here with a couple of remarks, please do not regard it as patronising, even if you know already these things.
> 
> First, _Saturnus_ was the mythological father of Jupiter, hence arch-ancestor of the Roman divinities. Reference therefore to the 'age(s) of Saturn' is to an incalculably distant past—mythically a time of plenteousness and universal felicity for humankind.
> 
> Secondly, _aurea saecla_ is plural, the 'golden ages'. In the context, this may make little difference (for metrical convenience Latin poets often used singular forms for plural and vice versa).
> 
> Σ
> 
> Edit: I should have added: Google translate is utterly useless for inflected languages. It would be worse than useless for translation into Arabic.



These are useful information, and I agree with you that Google translate needs more improving, it can't deal well with inflected language.

Can anyone has a suggestion for something like Wiktionary to find good difintios for Latin vocabularies, for example I need information about "Neroniana", and it seems to me that Wiktionary hasn't it.


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## fdb

"Neroniana" means "of Nero", the Trump of the 1st century.

I am a bit baffled by "sed". Is this a veiled attack on the emperor?


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## ahmedcrow

I'm just woundering that if "Neroniana" is an adjective to understand more about this style of writing, or it's just a declension of a proper noun.

For "sed" the problem is more easy, Wiktionary said that it means "but", look here:
sed - Wiktionary


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## Cagey

Wiki has this: -ianus - Wiktionary

*-iānus* m (_feminine_ *-iāna*, _neuter_ *-iānum*); _first/second declension_

Enlarged form of -ānus, especially frequent in adjectives formed from proper names.

_Catullus_ + _-iānus_ → _Catulliānus
Cicerō_ (stem: _Cicerōn-_) + _-iānus_ → _Cicerōniānus
Tīrō_ (stem: _Tīrōn-_) + _-iānus_ → _Tīrōniānus_​


fdb said:


> Is this a veiled attack on the emperor?


This couplet was not written by Sidonius Apollinaris.  He quotes them in a letter to Secundius, the author of the verses: in _Book 5, Epistle 8_ in the _Latin Library_. (_Sidonii Apollinaris Epistularum, Liber Quintus_. Search for "_Epistula VIII"._) 

From _Latin Satirical Writing Subsequent to Juvena_l By Arthur Harold Weston
_
Sidonius compares with Secondinus’ verses a veiled hit at the Emperor Constantine composed  by the consul Ablabius, and affixed to the gates of the Palatine:

For at that time, he [Sidonius] says, Constantine was suspected of having caused the death of his wife Fausta and his son Crispius.
_
Nero: 15 December 37 – 9 June 68 AD
Constantine: February c. 272 AD – 22 May 337 AD
Ablabius: (flourished 4th century, died 338)
Sidonius Apollinaris: c. 430 – August 489 AD​​For more of the historical background that makes reading Latin texts interesting see: 
Nero - Wikipedia
Constantine the Great - Wikipedia
See in particular, the section: Constantine the Great - Wikipedia​Ablabius (consul) - Wikipedia​


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## bearded

ahmedcrow said:


> For "sed" the problem is more easyeasier, Wiktionary said that it means "but", look here:


You did not understand fdb's question at all:


fdb said:


> I am a bit baffled by "sed". Is this a veiled attack on the emperor?


That 'sed' means 'but' is an elementary notion - especially for fdb, who is one of the highest experts/linguists we have in the Forums.


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## ahmedcrow

bearded said:


> You did not understand fdb's question at all:
> 
> That 'sed' means 'but' is an elementary notion - especially for fdb, who is one of the highest experts/linguists we have in the Forums.



I got it now. In fluent Arabic, we can use "but" with this way, maybe fluent Latins writers have such styles, what may support this idea is that Nero works were herrible things, I've short reading about Nero, there are much blood and he even burned Rome!

It's like if the writer of this epigram wants to say that we don't need to wish days like past days, or past days to back, but we already have an era that's better than that previous eras except that it's ruled by Nero.


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## Amapolas

Could 'sed' in this context be translated as 'though' or 'even if': _Ours is bejewelled, even if ruled by Nero_?


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## ahmedcrow

I was thinking to ask the same question.


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## exgerman

Given the dates of Sidonius and Nero, the second line should mean "Our age is bejeweled, but in the way Nero's was.


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## ahmedcrow

Good note exgerman, for that I assume "Neroniana" as an adjective.


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## Scholiast

Greetings all


fdb said:


> "Neroniana" means "of Nero", the Trump of the 1st century.


This rather flatters Mr Trump. At least Nero had some interest in, and enthusiasm for, the arts of music and poetry.
Σ


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