# go on the say [go on to say that]



## Miss Déclic

Bonjour!
Avis aux Anglophones! 
c'est la première fois que je vois cette expression et je ne sais pas ce que cela signifie. Est-ce: en venir à dire que? 
Merci de votre aide!


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## RocketGirl

"Go on _*to *_say that" means "he subsequently said" or "he later said" or "then he said" .  (De suite ou après maybe ?)

Ex:  "After telling us all that he didn't want gifts for his birthday, he went on to say that what he really wanted was a new watch"


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## titeuf

Je crois penser que " say" est utilise au lieu de saying (nom) adage,proverbe.
La fin de la phrase peut donner une idee. Aussi on dirait une phrase prise d'un discours ou l'orateur veut faire un point. Plus de details aiderait.


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## Miss Déclic

Merci de votre aide à tous les 2. RocketGirl, en ce qui me concerne c'est bien de "go on _*the *_say" dont il s'agit. 
La phrase est: Because of this challenge, Paul goes on the say that "..."
Qu'en pensez-vous?


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## RocketGirl

Miss Déclic said:


> Merci de votre aide à tous les 2. RocketGirl, en ce qui me concerne c'est bien de "go on _*the *_say" dont il s'agit.
> La phrase est: Because of this challenge, Paul goes on the say that "..."
> Qu'en pensez-vous?



Faute de frappe.  It should read "Because of this challenge, Paul goes on to say that..."


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## Miss Déclic

Merci RocketGirl, mais comment peux-tu en etre si sure?
C'est quand même un bouquin édité par Harvard... (bon ok personne n'est à l'abri d'une erreur, mais quand même...)


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## HogansIslander

RocketGirl said:


> Faute de frappe.



Je suis d'accord.  "on the say" n'a pas de sens en anglais.


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## RocketGirl

Miss Déclic said:


> Merci RocketGirl, mais comment peux-tu en etre si sure?



I'm sure


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## Miss Déclic

Merci beaucoup à vous 4


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## haapi

I suspect that this could be another case of the suppleness of American English. It's probably a (new) expression (or maybe even invented by the writer) meaning "goes on the record to say that" 
But I would be surprised to read it in a Harvard Press book


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## broglet

I suspect RocketGirl is right - faute de frappe - and this one happens quite a lot - try googling it!


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## Miss Déclic

A few months after having started this thread... I googled "go on the say" and found lots of results... So I assume now that this expression exists, at least in American English as several UK native speakers told me it doesnt exist at all.

Is there any American member that could clear this for me please?

Cheers


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## Suehil

And if it exists in American English I, as a simple Brit, would also be very interested to hear what it is supposed to mean.


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## Aoyama

Go on *to *say est sans conteste la seule expression possible.
Ceci dit, on peut imaginer des "dérives" phonétiques qui amèneraient à :
go on ta say/go on a say/go on _the_ say (même : go on _tha_ say), mais rien que du phonétique. A l'écrit "standard", utterly impossible.


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## Suehil

'To do something on the *say-so* of somebody' does exist, and it might be carelessly abbreviated to 'to do something on the say of somebody'


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## Miss Déclic

I totally agreed with what you say but ... Google it and see!!


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## Cath.S.

> I googled "go on the say" and found lots of results...


I did the same and found _22_, (it does say_ 22 300_ results, but if you go to the third and last page, you find that there really are only _22_ which is not what I would call_ a lot_) and in every sentence "go on *to* say" would make much more sense. So it really looks like a mistake to me too.


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## Aoyama

> 'To do something on the *say-so* of somebody' does exist, and it might be carelessly abbreviated to 'to do something on the say of somebody'


That is true but does not match _to go on the say that_, which, however you google it, does not make sense.


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## Miss Déclic

Now if I google it this thread appears 
It gives me 46 500 results...


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## pyan

Miss Déclic said:


> Now if I google it this thread appears
> It gives me 46 500 results...


I have just googled it, in quotes, and it gave 2 results, both for this thread.  When I asked for all the similar omitted quotes to be included the total was five.  When the search engines have been on their crawl through here in a few more hours I expect there will be more from here.


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## Miss Déclic

I google "go on the say" and get results from www.publications.parliament.uk, scotland.gov.co.uk, consumeractiongroup.co.uk ... etc that seem quite official!

But it doesnt help me more with the meaning and use of this expression!


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## Cath.S.

I had googled "_go on the say* that*"_, which explains why I'd got less results. Your "45 600" results actually amount to *51*, you'll find this out yourself very easily by going to the last page of results.
Here are the first ten, let's all have a good look:

1. The present thread. No comment. 

2.
_Additionally, while the Republican party also has proposed a Patients' Bill of Rights (...), they *go on the to* *say* that..._
http://www.govmedcareers.com/partners/heller/resource.asp?id=1131
(Page not found)

3. _There is a hand written sign that I noticed hanging the other day in the children's section of the local public library that says:_
_(...)_
_...and* go on* *the to* say something about thanking God for this "blessing"..._
_http://www.iidb.org/vbb/archive/index.php/t-99851.html_

4.Same as below, the person just omitted the hyphen:
_I didn't think you'd really *go on the say* *so* of someone you don't know off the internet_
http://www.emmakennedy.net/ekgb/index.php?page=13

5.This one is different, say-so = une assertion:
_But many people do not just *go on the say*-*so* of a single point of authority_
http://changingminds.org/disciplines/brand_management/brand_reputation.htm

6. This one is about getting on a program called "Say Yes to NO":
_How soon will I see a change in my blood pressure after I *go on the Say* Yes to NO program?_ 
http://www.herbalvitality.info/herbal-life_nite-works.htm

7. _The authors *go on the to say* "Children are not immune to racism nor unaware of its power"_
http://www.amazon.com/First-R-Children-Learn-Racism/dp/0847688623
(reader's comment by some person whose screen-name Abdul-Malik)

8.This is about a tour called "Say Anything Seal the Deal": 
_the guys have had a good amount of time off, and will be gearing up* to go on the Say Anything Seal the Deal Tour* soon_
http://community.livejournal.com/projectmayhemfd

9._Smith would *go on the to say*, “I couldn’t salute the flag in the accepted manner because it didn’t represent me fully_
http://umsis.miami.edu/~jgawron/olympics.html

10. Same as examples #4 & 5
_We *go on the say-so* of the people_ 
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/international/july-dec99/terrorism_alerts_12-27.html

Need I really go on ?


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## Miss Déclic

...
Do you mean all these examples are wrong then?


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## Cath.S.

Miss Déclic said:


> ...
> Do you mean all these examples are wrong then?


Yes, that's what I mean, Miss Déclic.

It's always important to check Google results individually, quality being more important than quantity.  All these examples show that they are either mistakes, or the wrong context.

I truly hope this helped!


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## Suehil

Take any grammatical mistake you can think of and google it.  You will find that you will almost always get results.  A search engine only finds things, it is not an authority.


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## VixenFox

La phrase est: Because of this challenge, Paul goes on the say that "..."

I would be very curious to know what is written in the quotation marks, because that would probably confirm for once and for all that it's a typo.  I am a native of the American midwest, and I have never heard the expression, "to go on the say that . . ."  As previously mentioned, you can "go on the say-so of" someone, and you can "go on to say" something.


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## wildan1

VixenFox said:


> La phrase est: Because of this challenge, Paul goes on the say that "..."
> 
> I would be very curious to know what is written in the quotation marks, because that would probably confirm for once and for all that it's a typo. I am a native of the American midwest, and I have never heard the expression, "to go on the say that . . ." As previously mentioned, you can "go on the say-so of" someone, and you can "go on to say" something.


 
I also agree with VixenFox. As a native AE speaker, I don"t find that _"go on the say..."_ means anything.

Google is a bad way to judge correctness. And mistyping _the _instead of_ to_ is not that uncommon an event for an English-speaker who is typing fast...thereby committing this mistake to cyberspace for eternity!


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## watergirl

American voices from the East Coast (wildan1), Midwest (vixenfox) and West Coast (me) are united (for once?!) in the view that this is definitely a typo. 
 Yet another reminder that "Monsieur Google" is not infallible...


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## ChiMike

Frankly, I also thought this was a mistake, but that the omission was "-ing" and the meaning: "agir selon le diction, selon l'avis", because I have never used the noun "the say" in this way and do not remember ever having heard it used in this way.

However, here is what Merriam-Webster on line has to say:

Main Entry: *2say*
Function: _noun_
Inflected Form(s): _plural_ *says* /'sAz, _Southern also_ 'sez/
*1* _archaic_ *:* something that is said *: STATEMENT*
*2* *:* an expression of opinion <had my _say_>
*3* *:* a right or power to influence action or decision; _especially_ *:* the authority to make final decisions 

Here is what the OED has to say:
1. What a person says; words as compared with action; also a saying, dictum. Now _poet._
*2. [archaic - daggar used, but I can't find the sign] A proverb, saw - 1650*
3. What one has planned to say; chiefly in phr. _to say (out) one's say - _1692 
4. A talk _to_ or _with_ a person. Now dial. 1786
Phr. [phrases]
_1. To have a say _To have a voice in the matter; to have the right to be consulted
_2. To have the say _(U.S.) To be in command 3. _To have one's say _To avail oneself's of an opportunity of expressing one's views

They add a charming quote from A.E. Houseman:

You hearken to the lover's say,
And happy is the lover.

So, what Google has revealed is that the supposedly "archaic" and "dialect" uses of the noun: "the say" "a say" are, to the surprise of dictionary makers, alive and well in the great backwoods.

Imagine some of those pesky colonials keeping the meaning: "a proverb, a saw" alive since the 17th century!  The nerve!

Whether you want to do likewise is, without doubt, your say.
The editors at the Harvard University Press have, apparently, already had their say. I certainly don't want to have the last say on this.

Perhaps we should all go on the very old saw: "Omnia pura puris."

Pour les francophone, le mot "saw" n'a rien à faire avec le verbe "to see" ni avec "la scie," mais vient de l'ancien anglais: "sagu" (ce qui a été dit) et est apparenté au mot "saga" (épopée). De nos jours, on l'emploie pour un dicton dont l'emploi a été trop fréquent.


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## Kelly B

Moderator note: given the apparent anglophone consensus, I've changed the thread title.


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## ChiMike

Kelly B said:


> Moderator note: given the apparent anglophone consensus, I've changed the thread title.


 
Now that I, Houseman, Webster's and the OED have had (or said) their says, you might want to change it back.

For U.S. English, it is always necessary to wait for voices from the South, the home of many of our best writers of fiction, and from the Mid-South where the ancient tongue is alive in the hollers...


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## watergirl

I say  that it would be very helpful to have the entire sentence to examine.  Miss D., could you supply it, please?
Your dictionary examples, ChiMike, do indeed remind us that "the say" is often used in American English, but I don't think they necessarily support the particular construction of "to go on the say that..."   
I'm with you, though, on hoping that a Southerner will weigh in on this.


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## Cath.S.

Chimike,
l'emploi _(erroné_, j'en demeure convaincue_) de go on the say that..._ tel qu'il se rencontre sur les pages web que j'ai citées n'a absolument _rien à voir_ avec le nom décrit dans tes citations du M-W et de l'OED.

Il est contreproductif de séparer un mot de son, ou de ses contextes. Personne n'a jamais dit que _say_ n'existait pas en tant que nom commun et à ce qu'il me semble ce n'est pas ce dont nous sommes en train de débattre dans ce fil, si ?



			
				Kelly B. said:
			
		

> Moderator note: given the apparent anglophone consensus, I've changed the thread title.


Tout comme Chimike, je ne l'aurais pas changé, mais pas du tout pour les mêmes raisons : d'autres francophones pourraient tomber sur cette fausse "expression" et se demander ce qu'elle signifie.


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## ChiMike

watergirl said:


> I say  that it would be very helpful to have the entire sentence to examine. Miss D., could you supply it, please?
> Your dictionary examples, ChiMike, do indeed remind us that "the say" is often used in American English, but I don't think they necessarily support the particular construction of "to go on the say that..."
> I'm with you, though, on hoping that a Southerner will weigh in on this.


 
Yes, I agree that what comes after "that" in the quote is crucial, although, while HUP does, in fact, allow errors to creep in these days, Miss D may be correct that they did not do so here. 

I was, however, looking at the many usages in Google where the form is:

"go (act) on the say that" followed by a quotation or paraphrase of some adage or authority (sometimes Biblical...and you know what that implies...). 

What makes me want to chuckle is, if this usage were more prevalent or if the writers had spent more time in the military, we might have been spared James T. Kirk's "Mr. Spock, you have the com". Through the endless reruns, he might simply have drawled: "You have the say."


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## ChiMike

egueule said:


> Chimike,
> l'emploi _(erroné_, j'en demeure convaincue_) de go on the say that..._ tel qu'il se rencontre sur les pages web que j'ai citées n'a absolument _rien à voir_ avec le nom décrit dans tes citations du M-W et de l'OED.
> 
> Il est contreproductif de séparer un mot de son, ou de ses contextes. Personne n'a jamais dit que _say_ n'existait pas en tant que nom commun et à ce qu'il me semble ce n'est pas ce dont nous sommes en train de débattre dans ce fil, si ?


 
Comme j'ai écrit, il serait bon d'avoir le contexte entier - après le mot "that" et l'on aurait dû y insister dès le début.

Toutefois, il n'y a pas de doute que l'on peut très bien dire:
"to go on the saying that" (d'agir ou de procéder selon le dicton, le dit que).

La définition de "saying" (OED) est: "2. Something that is said; a dictum; a proverb". Or, il est assez évident que, selon ces mêmes dictionnaires, le nom "the say" "a say" avait le même sens - ce qui a été dit - qu'ils qualifient de "archaïque" ou "dialectal". Si vous regardez les numéros 8 et 9 dans la liste de Google qu'on a affichée, vous verrez bien l'emploi:
...go on the say: "......" Il y a sur Google des exemples où l'on met "that" avant la citation ou bien où l'on procède par une paraphrase du dit qui a fait authorité pour l'action. Dans tous ces cas, j'aurais moi-même dit ou écrit "saying" ou "adage". Les dictionnaires sont, pourtant, clairs que le mot "the say" peut être substitué pour "saying". 

Je remarque que parmi les premières contributions à ce fil, quelqu'un d'autre a bien suggéré que "the say" pourrait être une erreur pour "the saying". Ce fut aussi mon impression, jusqu'à ce que j'ai cherché dans les dictionnaires et trouvé que ces mots peuvent être des synonymes - dont le premier (the say) est, selon les dictionnaires, plutôt désuet. Mais cela n'en fait pas une erreur! On observe les restes de cet usage sur Google, si l'on n'est pas déjà de parti pris. 

Je remarque que le mot combiné "the say-so" entra plus tard dans la langue et voulait dire au début: "a (person's) mere word or dictum; an ipse dixit" (OED). Le sens d'un dit qui fait authorité est plus tardif encore.

Finalement, la question n'était pas si un francophone pourrait utiliser cette expression (ce ne serait pas une bonne idée). C'est une tournure qu'on avait trouvée dans un texte revu et publié par les presses d'une université bien connue. Il est toujours possible (et de nos jours de plus en plus probable) qu'ils aient commis une erreur. Pourtant, tout le monde a procédé sans même consulter des dictionnaires, où l'on trouve que ce nom (the say) voulait dire la même chose que "the saying" et l'on a insisté que tout autre avis est erronné. Il paraît que certains insistent encore. En ce qui concerne le texte en question, il est toujours possible que ce soit une erreur. Pour l'emploi du nom "the say" dans un contexte où la grande majorité des anglophones (selon nous ici) diraient: "the saying," on a trouvé la réponse. C'est possible; certains le font toujours; et cela fait partie de l'histoire de la langue - qui aurait, peut-être, été rayé si nous procédions en anglais selon les opinions d'une Académie.


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## Cath.S.

> On observe les restes de cet usage sur Google, si l'on n'est pas déjà de parti pris.


Cite-nous des exemples, s'il-te-plaît (avec _that_, évidemment).


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## ChiMike

egueule said:


> Cite-nous des exemples, s'il-te-plaît (avec _that_, évidemment).


 
Tu acceptes, paraît-il, maintenant que "go on the say: '....' " pourrait être, en certains cas, l'équivalent de "go on the saying: '...' ".  Dans les deux cas, du point de vue grammatical, il est évident que l'on pourrait ajouter "that" sans faire une faute.   

Tu peux chercher toi-même sur Google. Les exemples fourmillent. Essaie "on the say that" (ça te donne: "go on" et "went on").  Il est bien vrai que j'identifierais un très grand nombre (au moins 85% - mais je ne les ai pas regardés tous) d'entre eux comme des fautes de frappe. 

On en trouve, pourtant, où le texte est: "go (went) on the say that: "....." et même sans citation directe ("...").  Ces textes aussi sont souvent ambigus. On pourrait facilement substituer "go (went) on *to* say that: ...." On peut faire de même lorsque le texte est: "go (went) on the say: "......" sans "that". 

La plupart du temps, comme toi, j'avais présumé que ce ne furent rien d'autre que des fautes de frappe. 

Mais en cherchant, tu retrouveras facilement des expressions apparentées où il n'y a pas de doute: "based on his (their, your, my) say that...." (et je n'ai pas cherché avec des noms en " 's " ou en "s's").  Alors, le "say-*so*" n'est pas nécessaire, bien que la majorité d'entre nous ici le disent quand nous parlons, il me semble. 

Alors, bien que je ne dise pas (et n'écrive pas) moi-même cette tournure quand je veux dire: ...went on the saying that...(et j'écrirais plutôt: "acted based on the saying that" ou "based on the authority that" pour éviter toute ambiguïté ou malentendu), il m'est impossible d'exclure catégoriquement la possibilité que certains, lorsqu'ils écrivent "go (went) on the say that", écrivent exactement ce qu'ils diraient et comprennent "the say" comme "le dit" "le dicton" "l'authorité" ou "l'énoncé". Les sens du nom "the say" le permettent et le dit est compréhensible - non seulement en lui-même mais en comparaison à d'autres emplois du nom "say". 

Aussi, est-il très évident que cette tournure (même si certains la disent ou l'écrivent sciemment - et cela n'est pas prouvé par des témoignages oraux) est strictement à déconseiller. Elle est ambiguë et la grande majorité des anglophones penseraient que c'est un lapsus pour "to say" (et, en écrit, c'en est le cas la plupart du temps). Sur ce point, je suis bien d'accord avec toi et avec les autres contributeurs. 

So, don't just go on my say that it's okay.


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## wildan1

This really now sounds like dancing on the head of a pin. It seems the majority agree that there was a typo and the quotation originally cited doesn't seem remotely connected with the different, rather unusual, turn of phrase. This isn't about French-English translation any more, ChiMike--why don't you debate this in the English Only forum?


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## Miss Déclic

Helloooo!
I have just read your inputs on this 'problem', sorry for not intervening sooner... it was quite hard to find the thread, this forum evoluates so quickly! (it will be even harder to find if you change its location!)
The full sentence is:
Because of this challenge, he goes on the say that "perharps the best structure of all for large companies is some combincation of a strong, centralized, functional area ... plus a network of decentralized operatives helping to keep communications consistent throughout the organization while adapting the function to the special needs of the independent business unit."
Ouah, rien que ca! ;-)


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## Miss Déclic

Heu... je cite la phrase telle que dans mon premier post... Paul goes on *the *say that "..."


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## wildan1

Miss Déclic said:


> Heu... je cite la phrase telle que dans mon premier post... Paul goes on *the *say that "..."


 
Je m'excuse d'avoir réagi trop vite, MD. Mais telle que tu la cites, ta phrase n'a pas de sens.

On fait même des erreurs à Harvard ! Peut-être parce que comme moi, on a souvent l'esprit qui va plus vite que les doigts ne suivent au clavier !


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## mally pense

pyan said:


> I have just googled it, in quotes, and it gave 2 results, both for this thread. When I asked for all the similar omitted quotes to be included the total was five. When the search engines have been on their crawl through here in a few more hours I expect there will be more from here.


 
It is important to understand that you would only say "*to* go on to say that" if you were discussing _theoretically_ how this phrase is used (as we are doing here in fact), so it is not at all surprising that the google results for this point back to this very discussion.

If however, you search for the expression as it would _actually be used_, e.g. "go on to say that", "goes on to say that", "went on to say that", you should find the reassurance that you seek.

However, I'll go on to say that this expression does exist, really is used, and is well known, well understood and quite commonly used, at least here in my part of the world.

Note: Yes, there are google hits for "go on *the* say", but these are all typographical errors as far as I can see. Because it is such a common expression, even the typos make it into google.

In terms of understanding the structure and logic, think of "to go on" as _continuer_ and "to say" as "par disant" or "pour dire" perhaps _(not too sure on which of these is better in French - perhaps neither but you get the point)_, so when I say "I'll go on to say" _(as I did somewhere above)_, in French this would possibly be: _Je vais continuer par disant qqch_ or _Je vais continuer pour dire qqch_ but *NOT* _Je vais continuer à dire qqch_.

Does that make sense? Do you want me to go on _and_ say some more?

[EDIT] I've just done that thing again where I reply to the last post on Page 1 without realising there are more pages to follow. Sorry!]


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## Miss Déclic

wildan1 said:


> Je m'excuse d'avoir réagi trop vite, MD. Mais telle que tu la cites, ta phrase n'a pas de sens


 
C'est bien pour cela que je sollicite votre aide sur ce forum!
Par ailleurs je suis assez surprise du language de ce bouquin...  mais comme tu dis c'est pas parce que c'est Harvard qu'ils sont exempts de tout reproche... linguistique!


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## Miss Déclic

Salut tout le monde!
Merci d'avoir participé aussi activement à ce sujet (cela commence à dater...). Je vais mettre fin a toute polémique puisque j'ai réussi a contacter l'auteur de ce livre!

Elle m'a donc confirmé, comme beaucoup d'entre vous l'avaient affirmé, qu'il s'agissait d'une faute de frappe!

Woulaaa! 

Merci à tous en tous cas...


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## catay

This was a very interesting discussion. Although "go on _*the* _say that" turns out to be a typo in this context, I would just like to add that I have heard this expression used, "say" as a noun and in the context ChiMike has outlined in post#18 and #35 and also in the context of "rumour or talk" about an event that has happened. Perhaps not commonly used anymore, but I have heard it uttered by members of my own generation and those of my parent's generation.


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## Suehil

I've heard it, too, but then it is always 'go on the say *of* someone', never 'on the say that...'


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## wildan1

catay said:


> This was a very interesting discussion. Although "go on _*the* _say that" turns out to be a typo in this context, I would just like to add that I have heard this expression used, "say" as a noun and in the context ChiMike has outlined in post#18 and also in the context of "rumour or talk" about an event that has happened. Perhaps not commonly used anymore, but I have heard it uttered by members of my own generation and those of my parent's generation.


 
ChiMike talked about _going on somebody's say*-so* (or on the say-so of somebody...), _which makes sense. (_l'ouï-dire_ ou _la prétention de quelqu'un_)

But that's completely different from "go on the say"--to me it would not be a plausible abbreviation of the above phrase. If you said it to me, I would have no idea what you meant!


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