# Raison, reason, ..



## ThomasK

In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways: 

- *reason vs. emotion
*- the *reason for *something
- someone is *right or wrong *(il a raison)

How about your language? Is there some link?

Dutch: 
*- rede 
- reden
- (ik heb) gelijk

*German only has one: 
- *Rede
- Grund
- recht*


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## Perseas

ThomasK said:


> German only has one:
> - *Rede
> - Grund
> - recht*



Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?

*In Modern Greek:*
*-λογική* /loʝi'ci/ (reason)  vs συναίσθημα /si'nesθima/ (emotion) 
*-λόγος* /'loɣos/
*-δίκιο* /'ðicio/


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## Gavril

Finnish:
_
*järki* _"reason, sense"
*syy *or_ *aihe* _"reason, cause"
*oikea *"right, correct" (_*olla oikeassa *_"to be right")


Icelandic:

*skynsemi *_/_* vit *"reason (= sense)"
_*ástæða*_ "reason (= cause)"
*réttur *"right (= correct)"


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## ThomasK

Perseas said:


> Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?


Aaarrrrrhhhh, you are quite right, my mistake (misled by wishful thinking once again!)

In the meantime it becomes clear, I suppose, that there is no inherent link between the three terms.


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## Tamar

In Hebrew, there is really no connection between the three:
Reason (vs.emostion) - הגיון [hegayon]
Reason (to do something)  - סיבה  [siba]
Il a raison - הוא צודק [hu tsodek] - he is right. [tsodek] comes from the word צדק [tsedek] which means _justice_​.


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## ahmedcowon

*In Arabic:
*
Reason (vs.emostion): العقل /'aql/ (vs العاطفة /'aaTefah/)
Reason (to do something): سبب /sabab/
Reason (right): صواب /Sawaab/ or حق /haqq/


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## ThomasK

Thanks, both. I just wonder: is there some kind of root in the words for 'reason' (vs. 'emotion') and 'reason for doing something' in Hebrew? And do the words in Arabic have some other meaning, some other derivations? 'haqq' sounds familiar for example. Something like 'certainty' - or is it knowledge? (But I was mixing it up with 'hadj', I think)


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## Tamar

Yes, Thomas, they do, as all Hebrew words have a root... 
The root for _reason - הגיון [hegayon] - _is הגי hgi
The root for _reason (to do  something) - סיבה [siba] _is סבב sbb

I don't think these roots lead us any further. These roots are roots for other words as well, but non of which have anything to do with our topic; sbb can be the root for סביבה [sviva] enviironment, surroundings, להסתובב [lehistivev] to turn around, for example. הגי can be the root for להגות [lehagot] to pronounce. Also has to do with steering. 
However, there's the compound הוגה דיעות [hoge de'ot] - another word for philosopher, but I think that even here it's in meaning of pronouncing.


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## ahmedcowon

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, both. I just wonder: is there some kind of root in the words for 'reason' (vs. 'emotion') and 'reason for doing something' in Hebrew? And do the words in Arabic have some other meaning, some other derivations? 'haqq' sounds familiar for example. Something like 'certainty' - or is it knowledge? (But I was mixing it up with 'hadj', I think)



Arabic is like Hebrew

As Tamar wrote, you can derive many words with different meanings from the same 3-letter root

the word [حق haqq] means 'right' or 'truth' from the root [حقق hqq], a derived word [حقق haqqaqa] means 'investigate', another derived word [حقيقي haqiqi] means 'real'

the word [سبب sabab] means 'reason for' form the root [سبب sbb], another derived word [سب sabb] means 'insult'


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## apmoy70

Perseas said:


> Isn 't "Vernunft" instead "Rede" in German?
> 
> *In Modern Greek:*
> *-λογική* /loʝi'ci/ (reason)  vs συναίσθημα /si'nesθima/ (emotion)
> *-λόγος* /'loɣos/
> *-δίκιο* /'ðicio/


Αlso *αιτία* /e'ti.a/ (fem.) or* αίτιο* /'eti.o/ (neut.) besides *λόγος* /'loɣos/


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## mataripis

Tagalog has word "dahilan" for   Reason.  The right reason is 'matuwid" and wrong one is "liko' "


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## bibax

Czech:

1) *rozum* vs. cit = reason vs. emotion (prefix roz- = dis-, out- + um = skill; umění = ability, also art);
2) *důvod* = reason for sth (verbal noun from dovoditi: prefix do- = in- + voditi = to lead, ducere, cf. to induce, induction);
3) *má pravdu* = lit. s/he has truth;


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## ThomasK

mataripis said:


> Tagalog has word "*dahilan*" for Reason. The right reason is *'matuwid*" and wrong one is "*liko' *"



Could you distinguish those along the lines in #1?


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Could you distinguish those along the lines in #1?


  Dahilan is Tagalog word for reason or( the cause of).when it is right, "Matuwid" and when it is wrong "liko' " or " Mali' ". You can say the reasons and distinguish them which one is right or wrong.


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## Erick404

ThomasK said:


> In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:
> 
> - *reason vs. emotion
> *- the *reason for *something
> - someone is *right or wrong *(il a raison)



In Portuguese, we use *razão* for these 3 meanings, and also for _ratio _(the Latin origin being the same). I'm not sure, but doesn't the French _raison_ have this meaning too?


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## DenisBiH

ThomasK said:


> In French one can use 'raison' in at least three ways:
> - *reason vs. emotion
> *- the *reason for *something
> - someone is *right or wrong *(il a raison)
> 
> How about your language? Is there some link?



Bosnian (in the same order you listed them)

- razum
- razlog
- pravo


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## Panceltic

Slovenian:

- razum (reason as opposed to emotions)
- razlog (reason to do something)
- imeti prav (to be right, avoir raison)


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## ThomasK

Thanks, I suppose the 'um' refers to skills, as Bibax pointed out, but how about 'log' then?


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## Panceltic

Yes, you're right, *prav imaš!*  The word *um* means in fact the ability to think soundly or make sane judgments. *Razumeti* is 'to understand'. The *-log* part is a bit more difficult to explain. This root is also present in the verb *razložiti* (imperfective: *razlagati*) 'to explain' (it can also mean 'to put down something', especially in the sense of putting some goods down from the ship/train etc). It's just occured to me that it may have something to do with *lagati* 'to lie', *laž* 'a lie', but I'm not sure!


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## Panceltic

Or maybe something to do with *leči* (root is *leg-*) 'to lie down' - there are similar constructions, e.g. *teči *'to flow' (root is *tek-*) ->* potok *'a brook' (po + tok), so raz + log would make sense! I will do a bit of research.


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## bibax

Slavic ložiti (-log-) and lagati have different roots.

Razložiti/razlagati is a cognate with German liegen, legen (to lay, to lie).
Lagati is a cognate with German lügen, leugnen (to lie).

(Probably the English verb _to lie_ is/are two originally different verbs, too.)


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## ThomasK

Well, etymonline considers the two not linked, refers to two different pie. roots.


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## bibax

I should say that the intrinsic meaning of the verbal noun *razlog* (in Czech rozklad, we use another verb klásti = to lay, to put down, to place) is decomposition/analysis.

Razlog is formally similar to German Zerlegung (< zer-legen, = dismantling, disassembly), however with different meaning.


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## ThomasK

That is quite interesting, thanks a lot !


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## Panceltic

Thanks, bibax, for clearing up the things! I think that razlog can very well be explain the way you put it. However, *-ložiti *(-log-i-ti) and *leči *(leg-ti) are the variations of the same root, like for example *nositi* (nos-i-ti) and *nesti *(nes-ti).


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