# Where is the rest room? Where is a <something>?



## masatom

Hi. May I ask you another question?

This is from my guide book for travel abroad.
It says;
_Where is *the* rest room?_

I wonder why "*the"* rest room. 

According to the grammar, my interpretation is this;
The speaker had the experience to use *the* rest room before and he knows what *the* rest room looks like, but he doen't know how to get there. 
 And,
If the speaker is quite stranger at a restaurant and he wants to urinate, he should say; _"Where is *a* rest room?"_

Am I correct?


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## elroy

"Where is a rest room?" is not idiomatic.

"Where is the rest room?" does not necessarily mean that you've used the rest room before.  In fact, it implies that you have not, because if you had used it before you would have probably known where it was.  The definite article is used when you assume that there is a rest room in a certain establishment, but you just don't know where it is.

If you want to ask whether there is a rest room you can say "Do you have a rest room?" or "Is there a rest room here?".

By the way, I think I would spell it "restroom" as one word (and Firefox didn't underline it so I assume it's correct ).


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## natkretep

The definite article is normal. This is because we assume that all shops, hotels, houses, garages, etc. have toilets. If there is more than one, there is probably one that is more appropriate for your use.

I wouldn't use _restroom _ myself because I am not American, but I would use _the _with the terms that I do use.

Where's the toilet please?
Where's the gents please?
Where's the lavatory please?
Where's the loo please?


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## audiolaik

Hello,

I would say that using the definite article implies there is this kind of room available for people.


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## teksch

masatom said:


> Hi. May I ask you another question?
> 
> This is from my guide book for travel abroad.
> It says;
> _Where is *the* rest room?_
> 
> I wonder why "*the"* rest room.
> 
> According to the grammar, my interpretation is this;
> The speaker had the experience to use *the* rest room before and he knows what *the* rest room looks like, but he doen't know how to get there.
> And,
> If the speaker is quite stranger at a restaurant and he wants to urinate, he should say; _"Where is *a* rest room?"_
> 
> Am I correct?


 
My understanding of “where is a restroom” is that the speaker is asking where any restroom is located. If someone asks “where is the restroom” the implication is that the speaker is asking where the restroom for that particular location (business, park, etc.) is located. 
 
If a customer at a restaurant wants to find a restroom he should ask “where is the restroom”. If a person is walking in a city and wants to find a restroom, he should ask “where is a restroom”.


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## Wishfull

Hello teksh.

Your explanation is reasonable to me.
You mean you use "Where is a rest room?" in that situation?


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## teksch

Wishfull said:


> Hello teksh.
> 
> Your explanation is reasonable to me.
> You mean you use "Where is a rest room?" in that situation?


 If I was in an unfamiliar area and needed to use a restroom, I would ask "where is a restroom?". If I was in a cafe and needed to use a restroom, I would ask the waiter "where is the restroom?". If the waiter said that they did not have a restroom, I would ask "where is a restroom?".


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## Sandym

Dear Friend,

In this case,* the* is used for a specific restroom.  As you know there are many restrooms in a city,  *a* restroom could be any restroom not necessarily the one in a hotel or the closest one to where you are.  

Please visit the link below:
www2.gsu.edu/~eslhpb/grammar/lecture_5/specific.html


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## Twodalu

Not  "Where is the restroom?"  Ask:  "Where's the restroom?"  Why?  Simply because that's the way we ask for the facilities here in USA.  Right or wrong that's the way people ask me in my home, at work, wherever.  That's the way I ask when I don't know where the bathroom is at (which by the way, is another widely used term for facilities in USA.


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## masatom

Thanks to you all, 
I'm sure my level of understanding how to ask the/a restroom has gotten to Jedi Master's level.
I'll say with no doubt "Where's the restroom?" in such case.

Thanks again!


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## Thomas Veil

I think that in general, you need a definite article when asking about something.  Otherwise it's not a valid question.  For instance, "What is twice a number?" is not a valid question.  "What is twice the number that I'm thinking of?" is.  You might not know the answer to the question, but it is a valid question.  If you're not thinking of a particular restroom, you can say "Where is the nearest restroom?"  "Where can I find a restroom?" or "Is there a restroom nearby?"  

Think about it this way: you expect the person you're asking you to give directions to a particular restroom, not to list every restroom within walking distance.  So "Where's the restroom?" is short for "Where is the restroom that you would recommend that I use?"

Not that people will, in general, expect you to speak in perfect grammar when you have a full bladder.  "I need to pee!" would probably get the job done.


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## Thomas Veil

A note on "What is twice a number?" or "What is twice number?": non-native speakers will sometimes actually ask questions like that, and it really irritates native speakers.  With "Where is a restroom?", native speakers will be able to figure out that you mean "Pick a restroom, then tell me where it".  But with other questions, native speakers will be left wondering what you mean.  For instance, if you ask "Where is hotel?" does that mean "Pick a hotel and tell me where it is", or does it mean "I have a particular hotel in mind, and I want you to tell me where it is", and if the latter, which hotel do you have in mind?  Something that many Asian people don't seem to understand is how very important articles are.  Leaving one out, or putting the wrong one in, can, all by itself, turn an entire sentence into gibberish.


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## masatom

Thank you Thomas Veil for your comments.

There is no concept of articles in Japanese. I think articles are very important and at the same time very difficult to master. 
This is why I ask this thread's question.

It is very interesting to know that yours and *teksch*'s explanation had a little differences.
I like yours, _"Where's the restroom?" is short for "Where is the restroom that you would recommend that I use?" _
I think it is very reasonable and easy to understand.
According to you, I almost always have to use "the" at that position of the question.

At the same time, I like *teksch'*s explanation.
_If a customer at a restaurant wants to find a restroom he should ask “where is the restroom”. If a person is walking in a city and wants to find a restroom, he should ask “where is a restroom”. _
It seems reasonable,too. 

Then if you and *teksch* are walking in a city and want to find a restroom, even natives differ definite and indefinte articles, aren't you?

Language is difficult. I will not be able to become a master, maybe forever.


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## MarcB

masatom said:


> Thank you Thomas Veil for your comments.
> 
> There is no concept of articles in Japanese. I think articles are very important and at the same time very difficult to master.
> This is why I ask this thread's question.
> 
> It is very interesting to know that yours and *teksch*'s explanation had a little differences.
> I like yours, _"Where's the restroom?" is short for "Where is the restroom that you would recommend that I use?" _
> I think it is very reasonable and easy to understand.
> According to you, I almost always have to use "the" at that position of the question.
> 
> At the same time, I like *teksch'*s explanation.
> _If a customer at a restaurant wants to find a restroom he should ask “where is the restroom”. If a person is walking in a city and wants to find a restroom, he should ask “where is a restroom”. _
> It seems reasonable,too.
> 
> Then if you and *teksch* are walking in a city and want to find a restroom, even natives differ definite and indefinte articles, aren't you?
> 
> Language is difficult. I will not be able to become a master, maybe forever.


Of course when people speak there can be variations. Here I think they are saying the same thing. The restroom is a specific one and a restroom is any restroom. If I am walking in a city I too would say "a" but "the" would be understandable. If in a building I would use "the".


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## panjandrum

The question "Where is a restroom?" is very strange.  I can't imagine ever asking that question.

In a restaurant or somewhere where I am confident that there is a restroom I would ask "Where is the restroom?"

Walking around in a city I would never ask "Where is a restroom?"
I would ask "Where is the nearest restroom?" or perhaps "Is there a restroom nearby?" or "Is there a restroom near here?"


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## MarcB

panjandrum said:


> The question "Where is a restroom?" is very strange.  I can't imagine ever asking that question.
> 
> In a restaurant or somewhere where I am confident that there is a restroom I would ask "Where is the restroom?"
> 
> Walking around in a city I would never ask "Where is a restroom?"
> I would ask "Where is the nearest restroom?" or perhaps "Is there a restroom nearby?" or "Is there a restroom near here?"


At least for me they all sound acceptable and normal a lot depends on how desperate you are to go whether you use a longer or shorter sentence.


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## panjandrum

MarcB said:


> At least for me they all sound acceptable and normal a lot depends on how desperate you are to go whether you use a longer or shorter sentence.


I'm surprised, but convinced.
I would never ask "Where is a <something>?"
That is not a natural question to ask in my world.


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## Cypherpunk

panjandrum said:


> I'm surprised, but convinced.
> I would never ask "Where is a <something>?"
> That is not a natural question to ask in my world.



Yet people ask every day "Where is an ATM?" No one asks that question in the UK, or would they phrase it differently?


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## panjandrum

Cypherpunk said:


> Yet people ask every day "Where is an ATM?" No one asks that question in the UK, or would they phrase it differently?


I think we may have found something.
I have never asked that question and I have never heard anyone ask it, or any similar "Where is a ...." question.

"Is there an ATM near here?"
"Where is the nearest ATM?"


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## Cypherpunk

panjandrum said:


> I think we may have found something.
> I have never asked that question and I have never heard anyone ask it, or any similar "Where is a ...." question.
> 
> "Is there an ATM near here?"
> "Where is the nearest ATM?"


Interesting. I can say that in AE, you don't hear people asking 'Where is a...' very often. 'Where is the...' is certainly _much_ more common. However, as teksch, MarcB, and I all seem to agree, there is a less common use of 'Where is a...' to ask about certain things, when you are uncertain of location. My impression is that we ask for generic locations in this way, and we just want whichever is closest.
I have also heard questions like 'Where is a gas station or Wal-Mart?' (I'm not advertising, here, but rather pointing out how people ask for the location of a ubiquitous retailer).


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## elroy

Personally, I'm with Panj, hence my comment that "Where is a rest room?" is unidiomatic.  I would never use "Where is a(n) X?" but rather one of the options Panj mentioned.  At most I might say "Where is *there *a restroom *around here*?"


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## MikeLynn

This is very difficult to grasp for us, non-natives, not a restroom this time, but an ATM. A friend of mine, sitting in a bar with us, found out he was a bit short of cash and he said, "I've got to go to the ATM." When he got back I asked him about the definite article he used and the reason why and he said he meant the nearest one available. There were so many ATM's around, but he meant the nearest one although he didn't know which one it was-_THE_


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## Loob

He could have said "an ATM".

He couldn't have said " a rest room"...

LATER EDIT:  I've realised how opaque this post was  What I meant was: he could have said "I've got to go to an ATM", but not "where is a rest room?"


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## kalamazoo

I think "the" does assume that there is one. A similar question is

Where is the exit? (you are pretty sure there is some way to get out)

or, in a grocery store:
Where is the milk?

or, in a hotel:
Where is the elevator?


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## MikeLynn

Thank you Loob and kalamazoo for your input. The funny thing is that sometimes it can be either or, but sometimes the definite article is mandatory and for "us non-native speakers" it is really difficult to grasp these subtle nuances because we usually depend on grammar book definitions and those can get really ambiguous from time to time. When _you_ say something you can feel what you're saying without thinking, but we usually hope we're just saying what we want to say-article-wise  That makes me really envious


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## teksch

Loob said:


> He could have said "an ATM".
> 
> He couldn't have said " a rest room"...


 
What’s the difference between an ATM and a restroom (Besides the obvious differences). “An” is used in place of “a” strictly because “an” is used instead of “a” depending on the way the following word is pronounced.
 
I don’t see why “a” couldn’t be used here. Try these, for example –
 
I’ve got to go to a hospital (I don’t care which hospital. Anyone that has doctors)
I’ve got to go to the hospital (Really, which one?)
I’ve got to go to a store (I don’t care which store. Anyone that sells candy)
I’ve got to go to the store (Again, which one?)


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## panjandrum

teksch said:


> What’s the difference between an ATM and a restroom (Besides the obvious differences). “An” is used in place of “a” strictly because “an” is used instead of “a” depending on the way the following word is pronounced.
> 
> I don’t see why “a” couldn’t be used here. Try these, for example –
> 
> I’ve got to go to a hospital (I don’t care which hospital. Anyone that has doctors)
> I’ve got to go to the hospital (Really, which one?)
> I’ve got to go to a store (I don’t care which store. Anyone that sells candy)
> I’ve got to go to the store (Again, which one?)


These sentences are fine, but you are completely changing the question.
Please keep to the topic of this thread.  
Using the form of the topic question, I could never ask:
_Where is a hospital?
Where is a store?_
Could you?


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## Loob

panjandrum said:


> These sentences are fine, but you are completely changing the question.
> Please keep to the topic of this thread.
> Using the form of the topic question, I could never ask:
> _Where is a hospital?_
> _Where is a store?_
> Could you?


I agree 100%.

The assumption is that there is only one...


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## panjandrum

_<< Moderator note:
Please read the title of the thread and the initial post.
This thread is specifically about the use of *the *or *a *in questions.
For example:
Where is the rest room?
Where is a rest room?

It is not about the use of articles in more general contexts.

Posts that do not address the specific topic of this thread will be deleted. >>_


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## MikeLynn

Well, I did apologize and I hope I can see your point panjandrum as talking about articles in general could go on for years.
In questions you're "always" asking about something specific or something that's implied.
Where is the (nearest) hospital, post office, bank, train station, bus station and so on although I may not know where exactly the institution or whatever I need to find is, or am I wrong?


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## kalamazoo

I would say
Where is the post office
Where is the bus station
Where is the train station

But Where is there a bank, where is there a hospital, where is there a cafe, where is there an ATM. Or "Is there a bank around here" or "Can you tell me where the nearest bank is."


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## MikeLynn

Thank you kalamazoo, I sort of though that asking something like:  "Is there a ... near here?" would have ben quite right, but it sort of lacked the initial _where_ and you did basically the same thing using a bit different wording addressing the the original question a lot better


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## MarcB

It is beginning to sound like an AE /BE distinction in reference to the original post.
It sounds perfectly idiomatic in AE to say a for a nonspecific restroom or an ATM.
That said the BE examples also sound idiomatic in AE.


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## kalamazoo

I don't think so. I wouldn't say "Where is a restroom."  If I wasn't sure if there was a restroom or not, I would say "Is there a restroom here" or "Where is there a restroom" or something. If I assumed there was a restroom, like in a restaurant, because restaurants are required to have restrooms, I would say "Where is the restroom."


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Here is another monkeywrench/spanner for the works of the AE/BE machine:

Using the example of looking for a bathroom/restoom/washroom/lavatory/loo while wandering around a city, is there anyone else besides myself who would find it idiomatic to phrase the question not as _Where is *a* restroom? _which I also find odd, but as _Where is *there* *a* restroom? _which seems natural?


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## Cypherpunk

Agreed, this is an interesting twist. I find 'Where is _there_ a restroom' extremely awkward.


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## natkretep

Cypherpunk said:


> Yet people ask every day "Where is an ATM?" No one asks that question in the UK, or would they phrase it differently?



As panj said, I don't think that is said in the UK. (And additionally, an ATM is rarely called an ATM in the UK. It's usually cashpoint, hole in the wall, cash machine, etc.)


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## elroy

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Where is *a* restroom? [/i]which I also find odd, but as _Where is *there* *a* restroom? _which seems natural?


 As I implied in Post #21, I agree with the addition of "there," but I would add something like "around here," "near here," "in the area," "close by," etc.


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## Thomas Veil

Yes, so there are really two questions:
"Is there a restroom that I can use?"
"If so, where is it?"

One can simply ask "Where is the restroom?" which assumes that the answer to the first is "yes".  One could also ask the first; most people would give a response along the lines of "Yes, it's over there".  Only if they were being impolite or jocular would they simply answer "yes", and say nothing further.


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## elroy

Thomas Veil said:


> Yes, so there are really two questions:
> "Is there a restroom that I can use?"
> "If so, where is it?"
> 
> One can simply ask "Where is the restroom?" which assumes that the answer to the first is "yes".  One could also ask the first; most people would give a response along the lines of "Yes, it's over there".  Only if they were being impolite or jocular would they simply answer "yes", and say nothing further.


 Thanks for a concise summary that reflects real language usage.


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## LnGwStX

Thomas Veil said:


> I think that in general, you need a definite article when asking about something.  Otherwise it's not a valid question.  For instance, "What is twice a number?" is not a valid question.  "What is twice the number that I'm thinking of?" is.  You might not know the answer to the question, but it is a valid question.  If you're not thinking of a particular restroom, you can say "Where is the nearest restroom?"  "Where can I find a restroom?" or "Is there a restroom nearby?"
> 
> Think about it this way: you expect the person you're asking you to give directions to a particular restroom, not to list every restroom within walking distance.  So "Where's the restroom?" is short for "Where is the restroom that you would recommend that I use?"
> 
> Not that people will, in general, expect you to speak in perfect grammar when you have a full bladder.  "I need to pee!" would probably get the job done.



I have to disagree; "what is twice a number" is a perfectly valid question, in algebra -- it would be written '2n'.   Also, if you ask someone "where is a restroom?" it doesn't mean you expect them to list every restroom in the vicinity, it just means that any restroom will do, as long as it fits the general requirement of having a toilet.  "The" implies either a single, or a specific, restroom, and could even confuse someone who isn't bright enough to realize that there are options, and who might try to figure out which specific restroom you mean.  Ok, not likely, but certainly possible.   Anyway, I agree with most of the people who have said that "the" means you assume there is a specific one in an establishment meant for your use, and "a" means you don't have any assumptions, you just need to get to the nearest toilet, be it in the next room or six blocks away.


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## Thomas Veil

LnGwStX said:


> I have to disagree; "what is twice a number" is a perfectly valid question, in algebra -- it would be written '2n'.


Not "what is twice a number?", but "twice a number" would be written as 2n.  n would then be an unbound variable, and thus asking for the expression to be evaluated would not be a valid request.


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