# Persian/Arabic/Turkish: Daily Life Terms



## Bienvenidos

Let's do some linguistic analyzing 

Please excuse the lack of Arabic text; I'm still trying to figure out how to do it properly on my computer.  So here's my attempted, accented Romanized Farsi: 

ú - oo as in food
í - ee as in meet
ao - ou as in shout

WITHOUT ACCENTS:
u - u as in under

*Farsi - Daily Life*

*TIMES OF DAY*
*Morning-- súb*
*Afternon -- chosht*
*Night - shao*

*DAILY VERBS*
*To wake up - khístun*
*To go to sleep - khowshouldun (khow-should-un)*
*To eat - khordun*
*To get - giriftun *
*To talk - gupzudun*

*DAILY MEALS*
*Breakfast - non-a-súb*
*Lunch - non-a-chosht*
*Dinner- non-a-shao*

*COMMON DRINKS*
*water - ao (this is the spoken Farsi, written it would be aab)*
*milk - shír*

*COMMON FOODS*
*rice - birinj*
*chicken - gúsht-a-murgh*
*turkey - phílmurgh (turkey as in meat: gúsht-a-phílmurgh)*
*lamb - guszfund (lamb as in meat: gúsht-a-guszfund)*
*meat - gúsht*

*COMMON DESSERTS*
*candy - shírní*
*cookie - culchuh*

Hope this is good enough for now. 
*Bien*


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## cherine

Interesting Bien 
Unfortunately, there are not many common words with Arabic


*Morning-- súb *This is like the Arabic sub7صُبْح

*Dinner- non-a-shao *a-sho reminded me of 3ashaa2 عشاء 

*candy - shírní *This reminds me of my name  شيرين which is only used as a name (mainly for girls, but sometimes for boys too)

Maybe other foreros would find more similarities I couldn't perceive 
Cherine شيرين


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## Bienvenidos

cherine said:
			
		

> Interesting Bien
> Unfortunately, there are not many common words with Arabic
> 
> 
> *Morning-- súb *This is like the Arabic sub7صُبْح
> 
> *Dinner- non-a-shao *a-sho reminded me of 3ashaa2 عشاء
> 
> *candy - shírní *This reminds me of my name  شيرين which is only used as a name (mainly for girls, but sometimes for boys too)
> 
> Maybe other foreros would find more similarities I couldn't perceive
> Cherine شيرين



Yes  Shirín (Cherine!) means *sweet* in Farsi. Is it the same in Arabic? 

*Bien*


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## cherine

lol, unfortunately no. As I said, this word is only known as a person's name. I can eve assure you that many Shirín(s) don't know the meaning of their own name 
sweet or candy, in Arabic, is 7alwa حلوى


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## Bienvenidos

cherine said:
			
		

> lol, unfortunately no. As I said, this word is only known as a person's name. I can eve assure you that many Shirín(s) don't know the meaning of their own name
> sweet or candy, in Arabic, is 7alwa حلوى


 
Wow! That's so interesting, Cherine! We came across a similarity in Farsi and Arabic just now!

*Alwa* in Farsi is a *sweet* Afghan dish (kind of like oatmeal, but a lot sweeter) It's made using flour, sugar, and oil. It's a great alternative to regular breakfast! 

What a coincidence! 

I always learn something new from you Cherine! 

*Bien*


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## la tierra

hey!
I couldn't find so similarities between Turkish word and the word both of you wrote.
hera they are some daily life terms in Turkish:

*morning- sabah*
*afternoon-akşam*
*night-gece*

*DAILY VERBS*
*To wake up - uyanmak*
*To go to sleep-uyumaya gitmek*
*To eat - yemek*
*To talk - konuşmak*

*DAILY MEALS*
*Breakfast - kahvaltı*
*Lunch - öğle yemeği*
*Dinner- akşam yemeği*

*COMMON DRINKS*
*water - su*
*milk - süt*

*COMMON FOODS*
**rice -pirinç (birinj in Farsi)*
*chicken - tavuk*
*turkey -hindi*
*lamb - kuzu eti*
*meat - et*

*COMMON DESSERTS*
*candy - şeker*
*cookie - kurabiye *

** how do you say "justice" in Arabic? Is there any similarity the word "hak" or "hukuk" meaning "justice" in Turkish?*


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## cherine

la tierra said:
			
		

> hey!
> I couldn't find so similarities between Turkish word and the word both of you wrote.


On the contrary, there are some : wait and see 

*morning- sabah this is exactly used in Arabic صباح it's a variation of subH.*
*chicken - tavuk there's a certain chicken dish in Egypt called tawúk. *
*turkey -hindi  here we call it dík ("dík" is rooster) rúmi, but many people also call it dindi*

*COMMON DESSERTS*
*candy - şeker it resembles the Arabic word for sugar : sukkar*

** how do you say "justice" in Arabic? Is there any similarity the word "hak" or "hukuk" meaning "justice" in Turkish?*
justice is 3adaala عدالة , hak (hukuk is the plural) is right (like rights versus obligations), the law school in Egypt is called kulleyat al-huquuq كلية الحقوق (literaly : faculty of rights)


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## Bienvenidos

cherine said:
			
		

> On the contrary, there are some : wait and see
> 
> *morning- sabah this is exactly used in Arabic صباح it's a variation of subH.*
> *COMMON DESSERTS*
> *candy - şeker it resembles the Arabic word for sugar : sukkar*


 
As Cherine mentioned, sabah seems to be a variation of the Arabic subH and Farsi súb. The interesting thing is that in Farsi *sabaah *means *tomorrow*. Another intersting note: Cherine mentioned that sugar in Arabic is sukkar and it's similar to the Turkish word for candy (*şeker).* In Farsi, *shukkur* is *diabetes*, a disease relating to blood sugar problems and the lack of insulin production in the pancreas. Isn't that interesting how all three terms are similar and tie together in one way or another? '

*Bien*


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## cherine

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> In Farsi, *shukkur* is *diabetes*, [...] Isn't that interesting how all three terms are similar and tie together in one way or another? '


Interesting indeed 
By the way, diabetes is also sukkar in Arabic (at least in Egypt), I heard variations of it, mainly sukkary (which is derivated from sukkar).


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## linguist786

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Wow! That's so interesting, Cherine! We came across a similarity in Farsi and Arabic just now!
> 
> *Alwa* in Farsi is a *sweet* Afghan dish (kind of like oatmeal, but a lot sweeter) It's made using flour, sugar, and oil. It's a great alternative to regular breakfast!
> 
> What a coincidence!
> 
> I always learn something new from you Cherine!
> 
> *Bien*


Just to add, we use the same word in Urdu/Gujarati/Hindi too! (for the same meaning)


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## Bienvenidos

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Just to add, we use the same word in Urdu/Gujarati/Hindi too! (for the same meaning)


 
That's very interesting. I'm sure Urdu/Hindi share a lot of roots with the other Indo-Iranian languages. My mother can actually speak Urdu; it's a very interesting language. Thank you for sharing 

*Bien*


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## Antivirus

Hi all,
Just to comment about "sabah", in other arabic dialects, the exact word sabah صباح is used to mean morning or tomorrow.

I'm sure there are more similarities, and it is interesting to know about them.

I have one question here, the farsi word "شيرين", is it feminine or masculine? Or is it for both? Although it is mostly used in arabic as a female name, I can't see a specific reason for that.

Thanx


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## Bienvenidos

Antivirus said:
			
		

> Hi all,
> Just to comment about "sabah", in other arabic dialects, the exact word sabah صباح is used to mean morning or tomorrow.
> 
> I'm sure there are more similarities, and it is interesting to know about them.
> 
> I have one question here, the farsi word "شيرين", is it feminine or masculine? Or is it for both? Although it is mostly used in arabic as a female name, I can't see a specific reason for that.
> 
> Thanx


 
Hi there,

My computer somehow isn't displaying that Farsi word in quotes (it comes up as ????), so the most I can tell you is that Farsi does not have a masculine/feminine system.

*Bien *


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## Antivirus

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Hi there,
> 
> My computer somehow isn't displaying that Farsi word in quotes (it comes up as ????), so the most I can tell you is that Farsi does not have a masculine/feminine system.
> 
> *Bien*


hi Bien, and thanx for the fast reply,
the word was (Cherine). As I understand it is an adjective, isn't it? In Arabic adjectives may have different forms for males and females, Isn't this the case in Farsi also?

Regards,


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## Bienvenidos

Antivirus said:
			
		

> hi Bien, and thanx for the fast reply,
> the word was (Cherine). As I understand it is an adjective, isn't it? In Arabic adjectives may have different forms for males and females? Isn't this the case in Farsi also?
> 
> Regards,


 
 Hey!

*Shírín *(sweet) is an adjective. Farsi doesn't have a masculine/feminine system like Arabic or Spanish, so it's used with any noun (since all nouns are genderless).

*Nahn-a-shírín *(sweet food)
*[Insert Name Here]-a-shírín *(sweet [Person's name, as when saying someone is "sweet"]

 Let me know if you have any more questions. 

*Bien*


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## MarcB

aunt

Arabic 
*خالَة**, عَمَّة*

*Urdu/Hindi   *ﻩﻠﺎﺨ, 

Turkish *teyze; hala; yenge.*

Farsi ﻭﻤﻋ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻰﻴﺍﺩ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻩﻠﺎﺨ ‘ﻩﻤﻋ


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## Tisia

Hello Bien. Here is my Persian version contribution to tell about the differences:

English-Persian
*Farsi - Daily Life*


*TIMES OF DAY*
Morning- súbh
Afternoon - asr
Night - shab


*DAILY VERBS*
To wake up - bidar shodan
To go to sleep - khabidan
To eat - khordan
To get - gereftan/ avardan
To talk - harf zadan

*DAILY MEALS*
Breakfast - sobhaneh
Lunch - nahar
Dinner- sham

*COMMON DRINKS*
water - ab
milk - shír

*COMMON FOODS*
rice - berenj
chicken - (gushte)morgh
turkey - (gushte)buqlamun
lamb - (gushte)gusfand
meat - gúsht


*COMMON DESSERTS*
candy - shírní OR abe nabat
cookie - kolucheh

Regárds
Tisia


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## Bienvenidos

Tisia said:
			
		

> *DAILY VERBS*
> To wake up - bidar shodan


Hi Tisia 

We also say "bídar shodan"  As far as the other minor differences, I think it's caused by one factor: Persian in Afghanistan, when written (i.e. as in a formal letter), is identical to that of Iran, but when spoken, it's a little different.  

*Bien*


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## Tisia

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Hi Tisia
> 
> We also say "bídar shodan"  As far as the other minor differences, I think it's caused by one factor: Persian in Afghanistan, when written (i.e. as in a formal letter), is identical to that of Iran, but when spoken, it's a little different.
> 
> *Bien*



....Yes I know that I can easily understand my Afghan friends here.

Tisia


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## panjabigator

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Let's do some linguistic analyzing
> 
> Please excuse the lack of Arabic text; I'm still trying to figure out how to do it properly on my computer.  So here's my attempted, accented Romanized Farsi:
> 
> ú - oo as in food
> í - ee as in meet
> ao - ou as in shout
> 
> WITHOUT ACCENTS:
> u - u as in under
> 
> *Farsi - Daily Life*
> 
> *TIMES OF DAY*
> *Morning-- súb*
> *Afternon -- chosht*
> *Night - shao*
> 
> *DAILY VERBS*
> *To wake up - khístun*
> *To go to sleep - khowshouldun (khow-should-un)*
> *To eat - khordun*
> *To get - giriftun *
> *To talk - gupzudun*
> 
> *DAILY MEALS*
> *Breakfast - non-a-súb*
> *Lunch - non-a-chosht*
> *Dinner- non-a-shao*
> 
> *COMMON DRINKS*
> *water - ao (this is the spoken Farsi, written it would be aab)*
> *milk - shír*
> 
> *COMMON FOODS*
> *rice - birinj*
> *chicken - gúsht-a-murgh*
> *turkey - phílmurgh (turkey as in meat: gúsht-a-phílmurgh)*
> *lamb - guszfund (lamb as in meat: gúsht-a-guszfund)*
> *meat - gúsht*
> 
> *COMMON DESSERTS*
> *candy - shírní*
> *cookie - culchuh*
> 
> Hope this is good enough for now.
> *Bien*



Really fascinating guys!  In Hindi:
*TIMES OF DAY*
*Morning-- *subah, saver
*Afternon -- *dopahr
*Night - *shaam, raat

Your word for "to get" is what we use for "arrested."  /giraftaar honaa/ means to be arrested.

We use two words for "meat."  /gosht/ and /maas/ with the former being Urdu and the latter being Hindi.  Chicken is /murGaa/ in Hindi/Urdu.  What is duck for you guys?  I have heard that Arabic actually got the word for Duck from Sanskrit...but Im not sure.  In Hindi, it is /batakh/.

Shirni is a candy hear too.  And Halwa is identical for us....and a GREAT BREAKFAST substitute I might add!  For justice, we'd say /insaafii/ or /nyaai/.  The word /haq/ means "one's right" and "haqiiqat" is reality.  /haqiiqii/ is real.  The Arabic word provided by Cherine (3adaala) is the same in Hindi/Urdu, but the meaning is different.  We spell it /3adaalat/ ( I notice that most Arabic words in Urdu have a "t" at the end of them in Urdu...perhaps a phonetic change that occured) and the meaning is "court."

For Sugar, we say /chiinii/(H/U), /shakkar/(H/U), and /khandh/ (P).


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## panjabigator

Oh, and the Farsi word for water, /aab/ is present in the word /pa.njaab/ the state where I'm from, with /pa.nj/ meaning 5 and /aab/ meaning water.  So Panjab is the land of the 5 rivers, but the words use for water in H/U are paanii or jal (less frequent).


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## Tisia

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Oh, and the Farsi word for water, /aab/ is present in the word /pa.njaab/ the state where I'm from, with /pa.nj/ meaning 5 and /aab/ meaning water. So Panjab is the land of the 5 rivers, but the words use for water in H/U are paanii or jal (less frequent).


 
right

Tisia


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## cherine

Fascinating indeed ! 
I'll add the Arabic words in blue.


			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> Really fascinating guys! In Hindi:
> *TIMES OF DAY*
> *Morning-- *subah, saver sabaaH صَباح
> *Afternon -- *dopahr zohr ظُهر
> What is duck for you guys? I have heard that Arabic actually got the word for Duck from Sanskrit...but Im not sure. In Hindi, it is /batakh/. cool ! it's baTTa in Arabic بَطَّة
> 
> Shirni is a candy hear too. And Halwa is identical for us.... for us too حَلْوَى
> For justice, we'd say /insaafii/ insaaf is also an Arabic word for justice إنصاف or /nyaai/.
> The word /haq/ means "one's right" same in Arabic حق (right vs. duty = Haqq - waajib واجب)
> and "haqiiqat" حقيقة is reality. /haqiiqii/ حقيقي is real.
> The Arabic word provided by Cherine (3adaala) is the same in Hindi/Urdu, but the meaning is different. We spell it /3adaalat/ ( I notice that most Arabic words in Urdu have a "t" at the end of them in Urdu...perhaps a phonetic change that occured) I think it's because these words end with a letter called "taa2 marbuuta", it's a sort of rounded "t" that comes at the end of some words to form -among other reasons- feminine substantif. This "t" is not usually pronounced in Arabic, but it's easy to imagine its being pronounced in the other languages which took those words from Arabic. and the meaning is "court." In Arabic, court is maHkama مَحكمة and sometimes we say daar 'l-qaDaa2 دار القضاء
> 
> For Sugar, we say /chiinii/(H/U), /shakkar/(H/U), and /khandh/ (P). it's sukkar in Arabic سكر


 
Sorry if I've been long, but this is getting even more interesting


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## Honour

*Bold ones are turkish *


			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> Really fascinating guys! In Hindi:
> TIMES OF DAY
> Morning-- subah, saver *sabah*
> Afternon -- dopahr
> Night - shaam, raat akşam (*aksham; evening, gece; night*)
> 
> Your word for "to get" is what we use for "arrested." /giraftaar honaa/ means to be arrested.
> 
> We use two words for "meat." /gosht/ and /maas/ with the former being Urdu and the latter being Hindi. Chicken is /murGaa/ in Hindi/Urdu. What is duck for you guys? I have heard that Arabic actually got the word for Duck from Sanskrit...but Im not sure. In Hindi, it is /batakh/. *we say kara batak (black batak) for a kind of bird, however duck means ördek*
> 
> Shirni is a candy hear too. And Halwa *(helva, a kind of dessert) *is identical for us....and a GREAT BREAKFAST substitute I might add! For justice, we'd say /insaafii/*(insaf; an exlamation word to request more justice from someone) *or /nyaai/. The word /haq/ *(it is said before, hak, same meaning)*means "one's right" and "haqiiqat" is reality*(same again,hakikat, we also say gerçeklik)*. /haqiiqii/ is real *(again the same, hakiki or gerçek)*. The Arabic word provided by Cherine (3adaala) is the same in Hindi/Urdu, but the meaning is different. We spell it /3adaalat/ ( I notice that most Arabic words in Urdu have a "t" at the end of them in Urdu...perhaps a phonetic change that occured) and the meaning is "court."*(adalet means justice, adil means fair)*
> *Mahkeme is court, it comes from muhakeme. I think it is from arabic origin*
> 
> For Sugar, we say /chiinii/(H/U), /shakkar*(it is also written before; şeker)*/(H/U), and /khandh/ (P).


 
*we used to say "ab" and sometimes "ma" to water, it is now called "su".*


Edit: additions


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## panjabigator

We say vaajib also, but I think it means "appropriate" but Im not too sure.  I did use the word today with my mother though...


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## Antivirus

panjabigator said:
			
		

> We use two words for "meat." /gosht/ and /maas/ with the former being Urdu and the latter being Hindi. Chicken is /murGaa/ in Hindi/Urdu. What is duck for you guys? I have heard that Arabic actually got the word for Duck from Sanskrit...but Im not sure. In Hindi, it is /batakh/.


 
Duck in Arabic is 'batt' or 'battah' (بط, بطة), so yeah, it sounds similar to the Hindi word "batakh", at least for the first part of the word. But how do you pronounce the second part? Is it a 'k' followed by an 'h', ba-ta-k-h, or is it a _kha'?_

__


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## linguist786

*What an interesting thread! Shame I didn't notice it before *
*This is my contribution for the Gujarati equivalents.*

The ones in *green* are the "strict" words in Gujarati (suddhar Gujarati/standard Gujarati) and the *blue* ones are the ones I use at home (Bharuchi Gujarati). Some of them are just the same. Please note I use "~" to indicate a nasalised sound. 

*TIMES OF DAY*
*Morning - savaaray (સવારે) (havaaray)*
*Afternon - baporay (**બપોરે) (-same-)*
*Evening -* *saa~jay (સાંજે) (ho~jay)*
*Night - raatray (રાત્રે) (raatay)*

*DAILY VERBS*
*To wake up - uthwu (ઉઠવું) (-same-)*
*To go to sleep - suy jawu (સુઈ જવું) (huy jawu)*
*To eat - khaavu (ખાવું) (-same-)*
*To get - léwu (**લેવું) (-same-)*
*To talk - bolwu (બોલવું)(-same-)*

*DAILY MEALS*
*Breakfast -* *naasto (નાસ્તો) (-same-)*
*Lunch - No proper word for it. I guess we just say: bapor nu khaaavaa (બપોર નુ ખાવા) (-same-)*
*Dinner - Again, no proper word. I guess we just say: saa~j nu khaavaa (સાંજ નુ ખાવા) (ho~j nu khaavaa)*


*COMMON DRINKS*
*water - paa~i (પાણી) (paani)*
*milk -* *doodh (દૂધ) (-same-)*

*COMMON FOODS*
*rice - chaawal (ચાવલ) (-same-)*
*chicken - marghi (મરઘી) (-same-)*
*turkey - not sure.. will try and find out later!*
*lamb - gosht (ગોશ્ત) (which can also mean "meat" in general). If we want to emphasise that it's lamb (and not any other meat) we use "bakri no gosht" (બકરી નો ગોશ્ત) to differentiate. *
*meat - gosht (ગોશ્ત) (gos)*

*COMMON DESSERTS*
*candy - no word for this! (we borrow the english word "sweets" and turn it into a Gujarat plural ending  (sweeto)*
*cookie - god knows! (definitely no word for this!)*


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## Bienvenidos

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Shirni is a candy hear too.  And Halwa is identical for us....and a GREAT BREAKFAST substitute I might add!  For justice, we'd say /insaafii/ or /nyaai/.  The word /haq/ means "one's right" and "haqiiqat" is reality.  /haqiiqii/ is real.  The Arabic word provided by Cherine (3adaala) is the same in Hindi/Urdu, but the meaning is different.  We spell it /3adaalat/ ( I notice that most Arabic words in Urdu have a "t" at the end of them in Urdu...perhaps a phonetic change that occured) and the meaning is "court."
> 
> For Sugar, we say /chiinii/(H/U), /shakkar/(H/U), and /khandh/ (P).



We use "haqiiqat" in Farsi as "reality" as well. The common term for regular sugar is usually *búrah*, and shakkur is diabetes.

*Bien*


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## panjabigator

Isn't it pronounced differently though in Farsi?  I think the "qaaf" letter is pronounced like a "ghain" right?


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## lb_tulip

Hi
I'm Iranian (a farsi speaker) but some of your writings are not correct
water: ab
morning:sobh
night:shab
day:rooz
breakfast:sobhane
lunch:nahar
dinner:sham


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## panjabigator

MarcB said:
			
		

> aunt
> 
> Arabic
> *خالَة**, عَمَّة*
> 
> *Urdu/Hindi   *ﻩﻠﺎﺨ,
> 
> Turkish *teyze; hala; yenge.*
> 
> Farsi ﻭﻤﻋ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻰﻴﺍﺩ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻩﻠﺎﺨ ‘ﻩﻤﻋ



The Urdu is correct.  The Hindi is not.  The word for maternal aunt (mother's sister more specifically) is /mausii/ (मौसी)and her husband is a /maaser/ (मासर).  This is one of those cases where a very common term is different between the languages, however speakers of either language would understand the other term.


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## panjabigator

Ah, Cherine, I realized I mispelled something. For justice, I should of written /insaaf/ and not /insaafii/. I will go back and edit my original post.

EDIT:  I cannot edit it anymore...oh well!


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## Bienvenidos

lb_tulip said:
			
		

> Hi
> I'm Iranian (a farsi speaker) but some of your writings are not correct
> water: ab
> morning:sobh
> night:shab
> day:rooz
> breakfast:sobhane
> lunch:nahar
> dinner:sham



 I'm a native Farsi speaker to....but from Afghanistan.  There are some little vocab changes....I've explained this in other posts before: Persian in Afghanistan is spoken differently than it is in Iran, but both dialects are written the same way. 

Great to have another Farsi speaker!
*Bien*
*Bien*


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## Chazzwozzer

sound shift said:
			
		

> It's not my language, so perhaps I should not say this, but in its early years the Turkish Republic set up the Turkish Language Association and instructed it to replace the numerous Arabic and Farsi terms in Turkish with Turkic equivalents. At the same time Turkish acquired many loan-words from French.


We have Turkish equivalents to almost every Arabic and Persian words in Turkish. In a good Turkish dictionary, you will see those loan-words and same meaning Turkish words coexist.

I really don't understand why you also analyze Turkish along with Arabic and Persian. Please can anybody tell me?

* 1-* It's true that Persian and Arabic once influenced Turkish at Ottoman times that many years ago. I'm sure Arabic and Persian influenced each other, as well, but never thought Turkish also influenced them just like they did.
*
2- *Since the Republic, Turkish has almost never borrowed any words from neither Arabic nor Persian. Rather, there has been a big number of falling of Arabic and Persian words in Turkish, probably as a result of nationalist movement.

*3- *Did you know that according to official statics of Turkish Language Association, there are *1374* loan-words from Persian and *6463* from Arabic, which most of them are not used nowadays and probably you would never face with half of those in your life since pure Turkish words are replacing them, and the thing is there are *4974* French words in Turkish! Also, according to TDK, we have *538* words from English, the words like *cool *which are increasingly used in daily life are not included. *632* from Italian, *399* from Greek, *147* from Latin and so on...

I hope you understand what I mean now. Before the republic, there was a big influence of Arabic and Persian on Turkish. After the republic and in the time being, especially French and English have been influencing Turkish much and it's still going on.


----------



## cherine

It's not really "influences" that we're talking about, but just "similarities". There are words common between these three languages, that we don't even know who borrowed them from whom, specially with the lack of etymological dictionaries, especially in Arabic.

I find it interesting and amusing to learn that some of the words we use in different fields of life (daily terms, technical terms) are actually not Arabic, or -for the Arabic ones- that they are used in other countries. 

If Turkey is replacing the non-Turkish words with "pure" Turkish ones, that's fine with me  Maybe you'd like to know that some of the Turkish words that were used in Egypt are gradually falling out of use too (like agzakhana -->Saydaleyya = pharmacy, for example). But it's not a race for who's going to purify their language first. Every language in the world -as much as I know, and with the exceptions maybe of the languages of isolated peoples(?)- have borrowings from other languages.


----------



## Chazzwozzer

cherine said:
			
		

> It's not really "influences" that we're talking about, but just "similarities".


 Aren't the influences only way to have similarities among unrelated languages, anyway?



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> There are words common between these three languages, that we don't even know who borrowed them from whom, specially with the lack of etymological dictionaries, especially in Arabic.
> 
> I find it interesting and amusing to learn that some of the words we use in different fields of life (daily terms, technical terms) are actually not Arabic, or -for the Arabic ones- that they are used in other countries.


 I have already given the official number of loan-words from Arabic in Turkish.
*
LOAN-WORDS FROM TURKISH IN:*

*Arabic:*
According to a research held by Algerian scientist Mohammed ben Cheneb in 1922, Algerian Arabic has 634 loan-words from Turkish. He also classified the numbers of words such as 72 of those words are martial, 31 of those words are nautical and so on.

According to another research held by  Ahmet Ateş, Arabic has 539 loan-words about literature from Turkish.

Researcher  Hüseyin Ali Mahfuz listed 500 loan-words from Turkish in Arabic spoken in Baghdat.

German researcher  Erich Prokosch reported that, according to his research Sudanese Arabic had borrowed 259 loan-words from Turkish.

In the latest research by Bedrettin Aytaç, 941 loan-words from Turkish in every dialects of Arabic are finally listed and classified.
*
Persian:

*Fuad Köprülü stated that only 280 words in Persian are actually from Turkish.

German Gerhard Doerfer claims that *80%* of the words in Persian are actually from Arabic. F. K. Timurtaş agrees and points out that there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian.

*WHAT ABOUT OTHER LANGUAGES?
*Since we're talking about Arabic, Persian and Turkish here, I'll keep these statics simple.

*Albanian *has *5.00 - 10.000* loan-words from Turkish.
*Greek *has *5.000 - 7.000* loan-words from Turkish.




			
				cherine said:
			
		

> If Turkey is replacing the non-Turkish words with "pure" Turkish ones, that's fine with me  Maybe you'd like to know that some of the Turkish words that were used in Egypt are gradually falling out of use too (like agzakhana -->Saydaleyya = pharmacy, for example).


 Agzakhana? That doesn't even look like Turkish. Maybe you mean _eczane_ which is not Turkish. ecza=Arabic hane=Persian.



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> But it's not a race for who's going to purify their language first.


 To be honest: even if it was a race, Turkish would be the last. Soon a loan-word falls into disuse, another loan-word comes into being. In the early years of TDK wanted to replace the Arabic word _şeref_ with pure Turkish word. However, it didn't really happen that way. Laten on, _onur_(French:* honneur*) came up so these two words still co-exist.



			
				cherine said:
			
		

> Every language in the world -as much as I know, and with the exceptions maybe of the languages of isolated peoples(?)- have borrowings from other languages.


 That is right. That's why I was wondering why this tread was not only about Persian and Arabic. Why Turkish, too? These two languages have much in common and their borrowings are still happening but Turkish has not been borrowing any words from these two and nowadays is trying to purify the language.


----------



## panjabigator

The language Urdu got its name from Turkish!  Go figure!


----------



## Chazzwozzer

panjabigator said:
			
		

> The language Urdu got its name from Turkish!  Go figure!


Hungary got its name from Turkish, as well. (onogur-alliance of the ten tribes)

About, Urdū, yes it's derived from _ordu _which means_ army. _I really don't think it is surprising because it's a well-known fact that Urdu is a language that developed under many languages including Turkish.


----------



## badgrammar

Hello everyone, 

I just finished a most exceptional book called "The Kite Runner", by Khaled Husseini, about the life of a boy growing up in Afghanistan before and during the Russian invasion, and how he returned years after when the Taliban had taken power.  Probably the greatest book I've read in years, in any case...

But I fund it interesting that there were many words in Afghan Persian that resemble Turkish - among them:

Tashakour - Tessekür - Thanks
Lötfen - Lütfen - Please
Khâla - Hala - Aunt
Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time

I won't theorize about any causal reltaionships here, but I was surprised by "tashakour" and "lötfen".  If I remember others, and there were others, I will note them here....


----------



## cherine

badgrammar said:


> But I found it interesting that there were many words in Afghan Persian that resemble Turkish - among them:
> 
> Tashakour - Tessekür - Thanks
> Lötfen - Lütfen - Please
> Khâla - Hala - Aunt
> Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time
> 
> I won't theorize about any causal reltaionships here, but I was surprised by "tashakour" and "lötfen". If I remember others, and there were others, I will note them here....


Hello Badgrammar,
These words are all from Arabic origin :

Tashakour - Tessekür - Thanks - it comes from the Arabic word شكر
Lötfen - Lütfen - Please لطفـًا there's another thread about this word. I said there that this word is not commonly used in Arabic daily usage, but it would be understood anyway. We have other alternatives, like "faDlan" فضلاً
Khâla - Hala - Aunt خالة (feminine of uncle خال khál) 
- By the way khaala and khaal are the maternal aunt and uncle, the paternal ones are 3amm - 3amma عم - عمة
Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time زمان - زمن


----------



## panjabigator

Funny thing is that nearly all the words used in that book at used in Panjabi too!  It was very nice!


----------



## badgrammar

That is interesting! And I also noticed the close similarity between Afghan foods and foods you eat in India - quarma and naan and many other dishes that sound very familiar to fans of Indian fare...

I learned so much with that book, I had little knowledge of Afghanistan before!


----------



## Bienvenidos

badgrammar said:


> That is interesting! And I also noticed the close similarity between Afghan foods and foods you eat in India - quarma and naan and many other dishes that sound very familiar to fans of Indian fare...
> 
> I learned so much with that book, I had little knowledge of Afghanistan before!


 
Exactly. Although I wouldn't say Urdu/Hindi and Farsi are extremely similar, they do have shared meals/words/influences.





badgrammar said:


> That is interesting! And I also noticed the close similarity between Afghan foods and foods you eat in India - quarma and naan and many other dishes that sound very familiar to fans of Indian fare...
> 
> I learned so much with that book, I had little knowledge of Afghanistan before!


 
It's nice to see that people are learning more about Afghanistan and the Afghan people. In recent years, Afghanistan has been portrayed as a country filled with terrorists: this is certainly not true. The Afghan people themselves hated the Taliban. They wanted to get rid of them. The Taliban invaded Afghanistan, and ruined the country's perfectly stable government (the soviets did the same when invading Afghanistan in the 1980s). People are shocked to learn that Afghanistan used to have huge libraries, and television stations: women used to be able to attend school: Western clothes and fashion styles were present in Afghanistan, up until the time that the Taliban invaded. 
Learning the Afghan dialect of Persian is really enjoyable: every word has a connection to the history of Afghanistan, and the Aryan empire. As I've said before, the Eastern Persian dialect has a different spoken conjugation than the Western Persian dialect, and some Eastern Persian words are not the same in Western Persian.

Let me know if you need any help with your Persian/Farsi studies.


----------



## Spectre scolaire

Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> *Albanian *has





			
				Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> *5.00**[0] - 10.000* loan-words from Turkish. *Greek *has *5.000 - 7.000* loan-words from Turkish.


Since you make reference to various researchers, could we have a couple of references here as well?




			
				Chazzwozzer said:
			
		

> according to official statics of Turkish Language Association, there are *1374* loan-words from Persian and *6463* from Arabic,


These statistics are difficult to assess. Most of the Arabic loanwords in Turkish have come through Persian. Most people are not even aware of this fact, and a word which, for all intents and purposes, is Arabic, is not _eo ipso_ an Arabic loanword. An apparently flagrant example of this is _badire_.




Spectre scolaire said:


> The last word, _badire_, must have come through Persian as well and “suffered” a semantic modification. (I don’t have my Steingass: _Persian dictionary_ with me here). The Arabic root is in fact b-d-r; [ba:dir] is “full moon” in Arabic. The word _badire_ should be considered as Ottoman Turkish; “nobody” knows it today.


_Correction_: Turk. badire is somehow less uncommon than I first thought of. Its meaning in Turk., “misfortune, disaster”, is a far cry from its Arabic original – a fact which puzzled the native Arabic speaker _elroy_.

If the semantic content of an Arabic word has changed that radically, would it still be considered an Arabic loanword in Turkish? And then, what about all those words which do not exhibit any changes worth mentioning whether morphologically or semantically? This is not an easy question for which reason it might be safe to consider only those words of (ultimately) Arabic origin in Turkish as Persian _unless special indications prove otherwise_. And yet, most people would not be inclined to follow such a strict observance.




			
				cherine said:
			
		

> Khâla - Hala - Aunt





			
				cherine said:
			
		

> خالة (feminine of uncle خال khál) - By the way khaala and khaal are the maternal aunt and uncle, the paternal ones are 3amm - 3amma عم - عمة


The Turkish terms are:

Paternal aunt: *hala* – corresponding to Arab. خالة. The masc. form does not exist in Turk., _amca_ being its replacement. In Turk., Arab. خال would be homonymous with حال, cf. hal, “state, situation, often a _bad_ situation, i.e. _trouble_” – not an appropriate word to designate a paternal aunt...​Paternal uncle: *amca* – see commentary below!​Maternal aunt: *teyze* – a word of Turk. origin.​Maternal uncle: *dayı* – a word of Turk. origin. ​Turk. amca is in fact Arab. عم+ a Turk. suffix –cE (subject to vowel harmony). The reason why this word had to be “modified”, is to avoid the homonym am, “female genital organ”, generally considered to be (extremely) vulgar. Ottoman dictionaries will probably register the word am, “paternal uncle”, but it is never being used (today) in this sense. The corresponding Arab. fem. form عمة is non-existent in Turkish, possibly – again! - because of homonym restrictions.




			
				Honour said:
			
		

> we used to say "ab" and sometimes "ma" to water, it is now called "su".


I wonder when you said âb for “water” in Turkish – probably never. Here I exclude the convenient lexical “filling” in crossword puzzles! – the probable reason why so many Turks would know this word in the first place. The word ‘âb’ was only used in Ottoman times to make a great number of _Persian izafets_, all of them with _âb_ as the first element. Today, hardly any of these compound nouns are in current use – âbıhayat, “_aqua vitae_, liquor”, being a notable exception – let alone ‘âb’ on its own.

Ottoman Turkish _ma_ in the sense of “water” would belong to the same category of _artificial_ words _on its own_ (with the same crossword caveat as above), and as _obsolete_ words in (equally) obsolete Persian izafet constructions. But, there is an interesting exception: _ma_ provided with the _nisbe_ form – *mavi* – is the common Turk. word today to designate the colour “blue”.


----------



## Alijsh

cherine said:


> Hello Badgrammar,
> These words are all from Arabic origin :
> ...
> Zaman (first name in AP) - Zaman - Time زمان - زمن


zamân is not an Arabic loanword. We have it even in Pahlavi (middle Persian).


----------



## Alijsh

Chazzwozzer said:


> German Gerhard Doerfer claims that *80%* of the words in Persian are actually from Arabic. F. K. Timurtaş agrees and points out that there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian.


80%? Can this Gerhard prove this claim?

"there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian" Then how come Persian can be written without any Arabic word? We have pure writers.


----------



## Alijsh

cherine said:


> *morning- sabah this is exactly used in Arabic صباح it's a variation of subH.*


I have heard (from an Arabic resource) that sabâh is from Persian pagâh. I haven't been convinced though. Do you know about its etymology?


----------



## Frank06

Salam,


Alijsh said:


> 80%? Can this Gerhard prove this claim?
> "there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian" Then how come Persian can be written without any Arabic word? We have pure writers.


I wonder what you mean by "pure writers" (not on _dopage _as the cyclists in the Tour de France?)
Regardless the percentage (so far I read about percentages between 40% and 60%, 80% is new to me, but it depends on how you count, I think), would it be possible for you to write a longer text in Persian which comes close to daily usage (be it written or spoken) without using Arabic (or other loan) words *and* without sounding _very_ artifical.

Motshakeram, Tashakor, Mersi ;-)

Frank


----------



## Alijsh

cherine said:


> Maybe you'd like to know that some of the Turkish words that were used in Egypt are gradually falling out of use too (like agzakhana -->Saydaleyya = pharmacy, for example).


Do you have g in Arabic? I didn't know. I think it's ajz-khâna. It might have been once in Persian but now we say *dâruxâna/e*; *dâru*: drug (it isn't an English loanowrd), *xâna/e*: house (drug-house; *ketâbxâna/e*: library).


----------



## cherine

Alijsh said:


> Do you have g in Arabic? I didn't know. I think it's ajz-khâna. It might have been once in Persian but now we say *dâruxâna/e*; *dâru*: drug (it isn't an English loanowrd), *xâna/e*: house (drug-house; *ketâbxâna/e*: library).


In Egyptian Arabic, yes we have a "g" sound. Note that I was talking about a word used in Egypt.

On a side note, I see you're taking this subject too sensitively. Loan words are universal. There are more of linguistic exchange: there are Arabic words in many languages, just as Arabic has many words from other languages. I agree that 80% is a somewhat excessive, but who cares about numbers.
Personally, it fascinates me to see and learn the similarities between languages, and I don't take it as a matter of pride to prove the "purity" of a language. In fact, I think that the more "pure" a language is, the more it means it is/was an isolated one.
I prefer sociability


----------



## Alijsh

cherine said:


> On a side note, I see you're taking this subject too sensitively. Loan words are universal. There are more of linguistic exchange: there are Arabic words in many languages, just as Arabic has many words from other languages. I agree that 80% is a somewhat excessive, but who cares about numbers.
> Personally, it fascinates me to see and learn the similarities between languages, and I don't take it as a matter of pride to prove the "purity" of a language. In fact, I think that the more "pure" a language is, the more it means it is/was an isolated one.
> I prefer sociability


Thanks. So you have g. I didn't know.

I think there has been a misunderstanding. I'm not in favor of pure-writing. What I wrote was response to "80%" and the claim that "there are more loan-words from Arabic than Persian words in Persian". Do you know what it means? Persian doesn't have much native vocabulary. It isn't true. Ferdowsi has already proved it with his Shahnameh. For pure-writing, whether bad or good, and however done (using words preserved in past literature, word coining, etc.), you must use the assets of your own language. So when it is possible, it means that the language is not essentially poor. That's why I mentioned the existence of pure-writers. Persian is an ancient language and has given and taken words from any people with whom we have had contact. It has a very rich vocabulary. Yes we have considerable loanwords from Arabic but Arabic has also its most loanwords from Persian (about 4000-5000 or possibly more). I agree that having loanword is not a negative point. Look at English. I have read various percents but about 75 percent of English words are borrowings (I have also heard 80%). Is it bad? of course not.

- I know this thread is for similarity but I replied to previous posts and from now, I'll pay to the main topic.


----------



## Alijsh

cherine said:


> lol, unfortunately no. As I said, this word is only known as a person's name. I can eve assure you that many Shirín(s) don't know the meaning of their own name
> sweet or candy, in Arabic, is 7alwa حلوى


For us, it's a girl name. By the way, one of the "Romeo and Julliet" stories of Persian literature is "Khosrow va Shirin" 

We have also halvâ (7alvâ). It's kind of sweet paste. It's usually cooked to take in cemetery and ask people to eat and pray for their dead. I don't know it's English word. We call this xeyrât. Another thing for this purpose which is more common is date (xormâ).


----------



## Alijsh

Another similarity that I don't think we have paid to is "and": va, wa, ve.


----------



## Alijsh

I have found interesting Turkish and Persian daily words. I have often followed Turkish orthography to make it more familiar e.g. cuma -> come i.e. jome. Turkish words marked with question mark are words whose Turkish I'd like to know.

Turkish — Persian
her zaman — har zamân (always. we say: hamiše)
herkes — har kas (everyone, everybody)
her — har (every, each)
hiç — hiç (no)
hiçkes? — hiçkas (nobody)
ki — ke (conjunction: that; older form: ki)
çarşamba — çârşambe (wednesday)
perşembe — pan[c]şambe (thursday)
cumā — come (older pronunciation: coma)
hafta — hafte (week; older pronunciation: hafta)
bahar — bahâr (spring)
kırmızı — qermez (red)
kahverengi — probably qahve-rangi (of coffee color, we say qahvei)
reng? — rang (color)
siyah — siyâh (black)
hava — havâ (weather)
baba — bâbâ (father; for us: daddy)
portakal — porteqâl (orange)
muz — moz (banana)
şeftāli — şaftālu (peach; for us: kind of peach)
incir — anjir (fig)
kiraz — gilâs (cherry)
pirinç — berenj (rice)
havuç — havij (carrot)
şalgam — şalqam (turnip)
turp — torob (radish)
köfte — kufte (meatball; kind of dish)
sebze — sabzi (vegetable)
meyve — mive (fruit) (its older form: meyve)
peynir — panir (cheese)
kaşık — qâşoq (spoon)
fincan — fencan (cup)
sirke — serke (vinegar)
küçük — kuçak (small. in spoken: kuçik)
bahçe — baqçe ([small] garden around a house)
bah? — bâq (garden)
kütüphāne — ketâbxâne (library)


----------



## Spectre scolaire

cherine said:
			
		

> In Egyptian Arabic, yes we have a "g" sound. Note that I was talking about a word used in Egypt.





			
				Alijsh said:
			
		

> Thanks. So you have g. I didn't know.


I was just wondering if you were somehow confusing each other. The Egyptian-Arabic [g] is nothing but the local realization of ج One can see this clearly in the conventional transcription of the name جمال عبد الناصر‎, Gamal Abdel Nasser. In Turkish, the transcription/adaptation is Cemal Abdül Nasır (where the grapheme *c* represents the English sound *j* as in *J*ohn), a rendering which, from an Egyptian point of view, would probably be seen as _hypercorrect_.

_Alijsh_ seems to be surprised because in Persian the phoneme /g/ is awarded a special letter گ which, of course, does not exist in Arabic.
 ​


----------



## Alijsh

Many Thanks dear Spectre scolaire for your attention. Yes, I thought they have g sound in Egyptian Arabic as we have in Persian. So the grapheme g represents the same j sound. Did I get it correctly now?


----------



## cherine

No, when I use g I mean the "g" like in "good". The "j" is used to transliterate the sound "j" (like in John) which is used in Classical Arabic (or FuS7a).


----------



## MarX

The Indonesian word for dawn (before morning) is *subuh*.

Perhaps the Malaysian State *Sabah* is related?


----------



## la tierra

MarX said:


> The Indonesian word for dawn (before morning) is *subuh*.
> 
> Perhaps the Malaysian State *Sabah* is related?


 
i don't know "sabah" in the Malaysian state sabah is related to the word "morning"
but in turkish, "sabah" means morning)


----------



## Grosvenor1

Alijsh said:


> I have found interesting Turkish and Persian daily words. I have often followed Turkish orthography to make it more familiar e.g. cuma -> come i.e. jome. Turkish words marked with question mark are words whose Turkish I'd like to know.
> 
> Turkish — Persian
> her zaman — har zamân (always. we say: hamiše)
> herkes — har kas (everyone, everybody)
> her — har (every, each)
> hiç — hiç (no)
> hiçkes? — hiçkas (nobody)
> ki — ke (conjunction: that; older form: ki)
> çarşamba — çârşambe (wednesday)
> perşembe — pan[c]şambe (thursday)
> cumā — come (older pronunciation: coma)
> hafta — hafte (week; older pronunciation: hafta)
> bahar — bahâr (spring)
> kırmızı — qermez (red)
> kahverengi — probably qahve-rangi (of coffee color, we say qahvei)
> reng? — rang (color)
> siyah — siyâh (black)
> hava — havâ (weather)
> baba — bâbâ (father; for us: daddy)
> portakal — porteqâl (orange)
> muz — moz (banana)
> şeftāli — şaftālu (peach; for us: kind of peach)
> incir — anjir (fig)
> kiraz — gilâs (cherry)
> pirinç — berenj (rice)
> havuç — havij (carrot)
> şalgam — şalqam (turnip)
> turp — torob (radish)
> köfte — kufte (meatball; kind of dish)
> sebze — sabzi (vegetable)
> meyve — mive (fruit) (its older form: meyve)
> peynir — panir (cheese)
> kaşık — qâşoq (spoon)
> fincan — fencan (cup)
> sirke — serke (vinegar)
> küçük — kuçak (small. in spoken: kuçik)
> bahçe — baqçe ([small] garden around a house)
> bah? — bâq (garden)
> kütüphāne — ketâbxâne (library)


-----------------------------
"Nobody" in Turkish is _hiç kimse, _sometimes just _kimse. _"Colour" is _renk, "_the colour" is _rengi_, _bağ _means "vineyard".


----------



## avok

Alijsh said:


> I have found interesting Turkish and Persian daily words. I have often followed Turkish orthography to make it more familiar e.g. cuma -> come i.e. jome. Turkish words marked with question mark are words whose Turkish I'd like to know.
> 
> Turkish — Persian
> her zaman — har zamân (always. we say: hamiše)
> herkes — har kas (everyone, everybody)
> her — har (every, each)
> hiç — hiç (no)
> hiçkes? — hiçkas (nobody)
> ki — ke (conjunction: that; older form: ki)
> çarşamba — çârşambe (wednesday)
> perşembe — pan[c]şambe (thursday)
> cumā — come (older pronunciation: coma)
> hafta — hafte (week; older pronunciation: hafta)
> bahar — bahâr (spring)
> kırmızı — qermez (red)
> kahverengi — probably qahve-rangi (of coffee color, we say qahvei)
> reng? — rang (color)
> siyah — siyâh (black)
> hava — havâ (weather)
> baba — bâbâ (father; for us: daddy)
> portakal — porteqâl (orange)
> muz — moz (banana)
> şeftāli — şaftālu (peach; for us: kind of peach)
> incir — anjir (fig)
> kiraz — gilâs (cherry)
> pirinç — berenj (rice)
> havuç — havij (carrot)
> şalgam — şalqam (turnip)
> turp — torob (radish)
> köfte — kufte (meatball; kind of dish)
> sebze — sabzi (vegetable)
> meyve — mive (fruit) (its older form: meyve)
> peynir — panir (cheese)
> kaşık — qâşoq (spoon)
> fincan — fencan (cup)
> sirke — serke (vinegar)
> küçük — kuçak (small. in spoken: kuçik)
> bahçe — baqçe ([small] garden around a house)
> bah? — bâq (garden)
> kütüphāne — ketâbxâne (library)


 
Hi Alijsh,

I just wanted to correct some of your mistakes with some Turkish words.

These are:

Hiçkimse: nobody

Renk: colour

Bağ: "vineyard" but it also means "garden"

Bahçe: Garden

Is "her" of Persian? (herkes, her zaman etc.)


----------



## min300

Antivirus said:


> Hi all,
> 
> I have one question here, the farsi word "شيرين", is it feminine or masculine? Or is it for both? Although it is mostly used in arabic as a female name, I can't see a specific reason for that.
> 
> Thanx



Hi there,
As mentioned before, we usually don't consider gender for words in Farsi/ Persian.
But in Iran  "شيرين" is a female first name. I guess this is because of its meaning-sweet- that we consider it more feminine.
Another similar example might be " نازی" or " نازنین" which means "cute" and it's considered as a feminine name, maybe because it shows tenderness and beauty, which is used to describe children and  women  here. Do you think this explanation would be meaningful in Arabic or in Afghan Farsi too?


----------



## Alijsh

avok said:


> I just wanted to correct some of your mistakes with some Turkish words.
> ...
> Is "her" of Persian? (herkes, her zaman etc.)


Thanks. Yes *her* is from Persian har (each, every; any). Also *kas* (person) and *zamân* (time). For *no-body* we say: *hiç-kas*


----------



## Grosvenor1

_Bağ_: "vineyard" but it also means "garden"
-----------------------------------------
It is "garden" in old-fashioned or poetic language (Ottoman Turkish?), according to my large Redhouse Turkish-English dictionary, which also confirms that it is of Persian origin.


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