# The use of "da"



## kyn

Hi.
As I was taught, in formal conversations, we should use the "V-masu" form and "desu" form. But I was wondering how Japanese speakers talk in informal conversations (e.g, a friend to a friend). Do you use "V-ru" form and "da" form?
I was wondering because these sentences sound a bit awkward to me:
- Boku wa gakusei da.
- Gakko e itteiru.


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## Kelev

kyn said:


> Hi.
> As I was taught, in formal conversations, we should use the "V-masu" form and "desu" form. But I was wondering how Japanese speakers talk in informal conversations (e.g, a friend to a friend). Do you use "V-ru" form and "da" form?
> I was wondering because these sentences sound a bit awkward to me:
> - Boku wa gakusei da.
> - Gakko e itteiru.



Some people still use the formal with their friends. (I've been living in Japan for 4 years) 

I wouldnt say Boku wa gakusei da. That's a bit abrupt. It's like you are saying I'm a college student! If you want to be informal about it drop the desu. Just leave it boku wa gakusei. 

gakko e itteiru is fine. 

But the Da puts a push behind what you are saying. like you are making a point. or being some what aggressive.

I'm not native. I'm just going on what I've learned and hear while living in Japan. If a native speaker has something else to say then great. Better to hear it from them. (although I am confident in what I wrote)


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## kyn

Thanks a lot.
But did you mean:
- "A wa B desu" becomes "A wa B" (omit the "da")?

E.g.
"Kanojo wa kirei desu" -> " Kanojo wa kirei".
"Boku wa 17sai desu" -> "Boku wa 17sai"

- "naninani wo V-masu" becomes "naninani wo V-ru"?

Is that how Japanese speak in informal conversations?


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## Kelev

kyn said:


> Thanks a lot.
> But did you mean:
> - "A wa B desu" becomes "A wa B" (omit the "da")?
> 
> E.g.
> "Kanojo wa kirei desu" -> " Kanojo wa kirei".
> "Boku wa 17sai desu" -> "Boku wa 17sai"
> 
> - "naninani wo V-masu" becomes "naninani wo V-ru"?
> 
> Is that how Japanese speak in informal conversations?



Not a problem 

More or less yeah. But its not that simple. Like you might hear something like 
"kanojo wa kire da ne" it kind of take the edge off a bit. If you just leave the da then you are really emphasizing what you are saying. 

But yeah I've hear it said "Kanojo wa kirei" and "Boku wa 17sai".
I would not to refer to myself as boku. But would say ore. if you are talking to friends then ore will work. if you want to be formal then use watashi. if you really want to be formal then use watakushi. but if you are going to be speaking on the watakushi level then you should know some higher level of politeness. Watashi works. 

and to the question about the verb "shigoto ni iku" works.


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## cheshire

kyn said:


> Hi.
> As I was taught, in formal conversations, we should use the "V-masu" form and "desu" form. But I was wondering how Japanese speakers talk in informal conversations (e.g, a friend to a friend). Do you use "V-ru" form and "da" form?
> I was wondering because these sentences sound a bit awkward to me:
> - Boku wa gakusei da.
> - Gakko e itteiru.


Yes, what kelev told us is all correct.

僕は学生*だ*。​
学校へ行って*いる*。​Although you can see these sentences in written Japanese, you'll hardly hear these kind of sentence endings in actual relaxed conversations.

Only some voice-over actors would actually use those sentence enders, and it's now a target of stand-up comedy (なぎら、右近）


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## Flaminius

Granted that -_da_ and conclusive verb forms are the most simple form of locution, they do not often conclude an utterance.  Different modal particles (ne, yo, mon, kara, nda etc.) are attached in order to situate utterances in the semantic net woven by other utterances.

Modal particles are too wide a topic to cover in a thread but they are used, for example, to emphasize that the utterance is an answer to a previous question, generate reassuring atmosphere, reconfirm a mutual understanding, ingratiate what the speaker represents as great trouble and so on.  Each sentence is understood by its content itself as well as its position in the semantic web that is a whole discourse.  Not having modality particles (which links a part to the whole of speech) itself can often be interpreted as an expression of modality; aloof, hostile, hurried, objective, and so on.

Edit:
*cheshire*, I know nothing of Mssrs なぎら & 右近.  Could I prevail upon you to please reproduce their stunt?  I am curious what aspect of the locution they focus on to tickle some funny bones.


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## Anatoli

I also read and noticed that the usage of だ _colloquially_ is different between males and females when だ . Not sure if this links with what has been said.

Something along the lines:
...(は)学生だ。 male speech
...(は)学生。 female speech

Let's soften this a bit with particles:
...(は)学生だよ。 male speech
...(は)学生よ。 female speech

I deliberately omitted the subject (name-san, -kun, -0 or pronoun) because this may differ male/female, formal/colloquial.

Is this true?


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## Flaminius

Anatoli,
I agree with your observation insofar as it points to masculine nuances of _-da_.  I may not have to rely on statistical data to mark  ...(は)学生だ。 as male speech and  ...(は)学生よ。 as female speech but other two do not particularly strike me as gender-biased.  They look to me unisex.

I think it is worth noting that gender-biased endings are becoming obsolete.  Younger generations prefer unisex expressions to the extent that 学生よ sounds facetiously girlie to yours sincerely.


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## Anatoli

Flaminius said:


> Anatoli,
> I agree with your observation insofar as it points to masculine nuances of _-da_.  I may not have to rely on statistical data to mark  ...(は)学生だ。 as male speech and  ...(は)学生よ。 as female speech but other two do not particularly strike me as gender-biased.  They look to me unisex.
> 
> I think it is worth noting that gender-biased endings are becoming obsolete.  Younger generations prefer unisex expressions to the extent that 学生よ sounds facetiously girlie to yours sincerely.



Thanks, Flaminius. Could you mark, which ones sound unisex and which are gender-biased, please. I am not sure I understood. 

..(は)学生だ。
...(は)学生。
...(は)学生だよ。
...(は)学生よ。


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## Flaminius

Here it goes:

..(は)学生だ。 Gender-biased (male)
...(は)学生。 Unisex
...(は)学生だよ。 Unisex
...(は)学生よ。  Gender-biased (female)


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## Anatoli

Thanks, Flam.  I couldn't access web from work yesterday.


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## Moogle

Hey,

So is "da" just an informal way of saying "desu"?


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## Flaminius

Yes, _da_ is the informal version of _desu_.


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## Moogle

Flaminius said:


> Yes, _da_ is the informal version of _desu_.



Thank you so much! 

Now I understand how "da" participates in:

Suteki Da Ne!

Suteki = Beautiful?
Da = Is / Desu
Ne = Isn't that right? Eh?


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