# Pronunciation: IEC, AVL



## LoveVanPersie

How do you pronounce the abbreviations _*IEC* _(Institut d'Estudis Catalans) and _*AVL*_ (Acadèmia Valenciana de la Llengua)?
Is _*IEC* _pronounced /i.ˈjɛk/, /i.ˈɛk/ or /ˈjɛk/?
Is _*AVL* _pronounced /a.ve.ˈel(e)/ in Valencian? (Does it have a central Catalan pronunciaion?)


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## Dymn

Central Catalan:

IEC: /iˈɛk/
AVL: /aβ̞eˈeɫə/


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## tenienteramires

In Western (occidental) Catalan they are pronounced this way:

AVL:
- [a.veˈe.ɫe] (most common pronunciation)
- [a.veˈe.ɫa]
- [a.veˈeɫ] (a less common pronunciation, but the one I personally use)

IEC:
- [iˈek]

"AVL" can obviously be pronounced in Eastern Catalan, its name is just the name of its letters: a ve ela/ele/el (note that in Eastern Catalan, unstressed e and a are pronounced as a schwa, so ele and ela sound the same).


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## LoveVanPersie

Thank you again 
Are _alta_ and _baixa_ of _be alta_ and _be baixa_ often left out in abbreviations?

Edit: Sorry I was wrong. It should be _*v*e baixa_.


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## Doraemon-

LoveVanPersie said:


> Thank you again
> Are _alta_ and _baixa_ of _be alta_ and _be baixa_ often left out in abbreviations?



Yes, quite often; not if we're spelling, obviously. Moreover, notice that these "alta/baixa" are never used in the areas where we make the distinction b/v, as in Valencian, so I think you'll never hear "a be baixa ela", being a Valencian academy.


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## LoveVanPersie

Gràcies!


Doraemon- said:


> not if we're spelling, obviously.


What does it mean?


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## Doraemon-

I mean when it's not an acronym but we're spelling a word, like in: "my surname is bellver, b, e, l, l, v, e, r".


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## tenienteramires

The letters B and V are called in catalan "be" and "ve", but since in some places they sound the same, they can also be called "be alta" and "ve baixa". In abbreviations you'll always use "be" and "ve": AVL (a ve ele/ela/el), TV3 (te ve tres). When you say all the letters in a normal word, like when asking how to spell something, you can, optionally, use "be alta" and "ve baixa": "Em diuen Ivan: i, ve baixa, a, en" ("My name is Ivan: i, vee, a, en")

My recommendation is to pronounce B and V with different sounds (so you'll only need to say "be" and "ve", and not "be alta" or "ve baixa"), even when speaking a dialect that has lost that distiction, because it's the most traditional pronunciation and it's done, nowadays, in Valencian (though in some places only in formal speech) and Balearic dialects, also in Alguer and in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).


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## LoveVanPersie

So _DCVB_ is pronounced [de.se.β̞e.ˈβ̞e] in central Catalan?


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## LoveVanPersie

tenienteramires said:


> The letters B and V are called in catalan "be" and "ve", but since in some places they sound the same, they can also be called "be alta" and "ve baixa". In abbreviations you'll always use "be" and "ve": AVL (a ve ele/ela/el), TV3 (te ve tres). When you say all the letters in a normal word, like when asking how to spell something, you can, optionally, use "be alta" and "ve baixa": "Em diuen Ivan: i, ve baixa, a, en" ("My name is Ivan: i, vee, a, en")
> 
> My recommendation is to pronounce B and V with different sounds (so you'll only need to say "be" and "ve", and not "be alta" or "ve baixa"), even when speaking a dialect that has lost that distiction, because it's the most traditional pronunciation and it's done, nowadays, in Valencian (though in some places only in formal speech) and Balearic dialects, also in Alguer and in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).


Would you lenite /d/ to [ð̞]?


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## tenienteramires

/b/, [d] and [g] are always lenited to [β], [ð] and [ɣ] except when they are preceded by a nasal sound (un disc [ˈunˈdisk]) , when they are at the end of a syllable (admetre [adˈme.tɾe]) , when they come before a pause and, in the case of [d], in the combination [ɫd]. Also, final /b/, [d] and [g] are pronounced [p], [t] and [k] except in the word "amb", which is pronounced [amb] if followed by a vowel: amb ella [amˈbe.ʎa]


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## LoveVanPersie

Ah it was my typo sorry!
I mean would you lenite /b/ to [β̞]? Wikipedia says "/b/ remains unlenited in non-betacist dialects." and in DNV /b/ is only transcribed *.* (Why can't the "b" between "[" and "]" be properly rendered? )


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> Ah it was my typo sorry!
> I mean would you lenite /b/ to [β̞]? Wikipedia says "/b/ remains unlenited in non-betacist dialects."



In non-betacist dialects, /b/ can be always unlenited, and it's the most traditional way of pronouning it in those dialects, but it's also very common (and I would say it's way more common nowadays) to lenite it to [β] just like in betacist dialects. I'm a betacist, but I allways try to do my best to pronounce V as [v], at least in formal speach or when reading poetry.


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## LoveVanPersie

Good to know them!


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## Dymn

tenienteramires said:


> in Southern Central Catalan (in Tarragona). There are obviously some dialects that have lost this distinction, but it's a modern thing (in Tortosí we lost it during the 19th and 20th century, but in some small villages even today they pronounce V and B differently).


I read it would have started at the 15th century, so, far from modern. I think it wouldn't do justice to it to clump it together with real ongoing phonetic phenomena that are a result of Spanish influence.

That the loss is quite recent in Tortosí I can understand because it's located between two dialects that still keep it to this day, although I must say it's very rare to hear it nowadays in Camp de Tarragona. It can only be found among some of the elderly in some of the villages.


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> So _DCVB_ is pronounced [de.se.β̞e.ˈβ̞e] in central Catalan?



Nobody says "de ce ve be", everyone reads "DCVB" as "Diccionari català-valencià-balear" (in my dialect it's pronounced [dik.sjoˈna.ɾi ka.taˈɫa va.ɫenˈsja βa.ɫeˈa])


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## LoveVanPersie

Really grateful to you all!


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## LoveVanPersie

tenienteramires said:


> Nobody says "de ce ve be", everyone reads "DCVB" as "Diccionari català-valencià-balear" (in my dialect it's pronounced [dik.sjoˈna.ɾi ka.taˈɫa va.ɫenˈsja βa.ɫeˈa])


I have learned from Wikipedia and dictionaries that the second _i_ of _dicc*i*onari_ and the _i_ of _valenc*i*à_ are /i/ instead of /j/.


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## Dymn

Yes, that's the prescriptive rule on which syllable separation and therefore accentuation rules are based.

However I'm yet to find someone pronouncing it that way (or maybe I haven't paid close attention).


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## tenienteramires

Yes, like Dymn said, in real conversation hardly nobody pronounce it with an /i/_. _The [j] pronunciation is used at least since the 16th century and it's common to all romance languages


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