# Hindi: second-best, second-longest, etc.



## albondiga

OK, so to say "best", "longest", etc., I know of *sabse achchhaa*, *sabse lambaa*, etc. (If there's another common way, please let me know...)

But what about "second-best", "second-longest", etc.?


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## linguist786

Good question! I actually don't know to be honest. 
I'd like to know myself!

Give some context, then maybe I can "make something up"  (find the closest translation)

And yes - you're right about *sabse achchaa* etc.


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## Lugubert

That's a new one to me as well. For second-best, Bulke: _An English-Hindi Dictionary _gives दुसरे दरजे का.


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## linguist786

Lugubert said:


> That's a new one to me as well. For second-best, Bulke: _An English-Hindi Dictionary _gives दुसरे दरजे का.


Hmm, I guess that's an OK translation but I don't see how it would be put into a sentence! "dusrai darje kaa" literally means "of second ranking".


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## albondiga

I can't recall the specific context that prompted my question, but I'll give some sample English contexts to test the possibilities...

1) 
A: "What's your favourite film?"
B: (responds with the name of a film)
A: "And what's your second-favourite film?"
_(Could Lugubert's option work here?)_

2)
A: "X is the best cricket player in the world."
B: "No, X is the second-best cricket player; Y is the best."
_(Could Lugubert's option maybe work here as well?)_

3)
"This is the second-smallest dosa I've ever seen."
_or_
"She is the second-oldest woman in this town."
_or_
"He is the second-fastest runner in the country."
_(...and other such sentences; I don't think Lugubert's option works so well in these.)_

What do you think?


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## linguist786

albondiga said:


> 1)
> A: "What's your favourite film?"
> B: (responds with the name of a film)
> A: "And what's your second-favourite film?"
> _(Could Lugubert's option work here?)_


- Aapkaa pasandiidaa film kyaa hai?
- (javaab)
- aur iss ke baad?




> 2)
> A: "X is the best cricket player in the world."
> B: "No, X is the second-best cricket player; Y is the best."
> _(Could Lugubert's option maybe work here as well?)_


- *X* sab se achchaa krikét-khilaarii hai
- nahiiN, *Y* sab se achchaa krikét-khilaarii hai, iss ke _baad_ *X* (aataa) hai
(emphasis on _baad_)



> 3)
> "This is the second-smallest dosa I've ever seen."
> _or_
> "She is the second-oldest woman in this town."


What is a "dosa"?  lol

I actually still don't know how I would say this in Hindi!! (second sentence). It'd have to long-winded. This is my attempt:

(उम्र के बारे में) वह इस शहर में दुसरे नंबर की सब से बुड्ढी औरत हैं
(Umr ke baare meN) woh iss shahar maiN dusre nambar kii sab se buddhii aurat hai



> _or_
> "He is the second-fastest runner in the country."


वह सारी देश में दुसरे नंबर का सब से जल्दी दौड़ने वाला हैं
Woh saarii desh meN dusre nambar kaa sab se jaldi doDhne walaa hai



> What do you think?


I think panjabigator needs to take a look too!!


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## albondiga

Re: the first two... yes, that's a much simpler way of expressing these things! 
(I won't worry about having to name my _third_-favorite film without my top two! ) 



linguist786 said:


> What is a "dosa"?  lol


 
..as in masala dosa... right after I posted, I realized I shouldn't have mixed South Indian foods with North Indian languages; it could have easily been "the second-smallest thali" instead, right?  In any case, I'd imagine it would be along the lines of what you wrote for the other two below...



linguist786 said:


> I actually still don't know how I would say this in Hindi!! (second sentence). It'd have to long-winded. This is my attempt:
> 
> (उम्र के बारे में) वह इस शहर में दुसरे नंबर की सब से बुड्ढी औरत हैं
> (Umr ke baare meN) woh iss shahar maiN dusre nambar kii sab se buddhii aurat hai
> 
> 
> वह सारी देश में दुसरे नंबर का सब से जल्दी दौड़ने वाला हैं
> Woh saarii desh meN dusre nambar kaa sab se jaldi doDhne walaa hai


Hmm, I think that gets the point across... I guess this is one of those concepts that some languages can say in a word while others require more (like "the day before yesterday")...



linguist786 said:


> I think panjabigator needs to take a look too!!


 
yes, any more attempts would be great!


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## panjabigator

This is not to suggest that it doesn't exist or that Hindi has any short coming, but at least to my ears, hearing "sabse acchhaa" in such a context would not translate properly.  I really can't say too well how this would translate.  I'll PM you some other resources, if you're interested.



albondiga said:


> I can't recall the specific context that prompted my question, but I'll give some sample English contexts to test the possibilities...
> 
> 1)
> A: "What's your favourite film?"
> B: (responds with the name of a film)
> A: "And what's your second-favourite film?"
> _(Could Lugubert's option work here?)_
> 
> *Here is where Linguist and I differ.  I've used the word /pasa.ndiidaa/ with Hindi speakers and they don't recognize the word.  With Urdu speakers however, I find that it works.  Just a little tidbit.
> 
> 1)  /aapkii man pansa.nd kii film kyaa hai?/
> /aur uske baad kaunsii film?/
> 
> I don't know if that second sentence works too well because really there is no verb.  I think it would make perfect sense if spoken, but written, I'm inclined to doubt it.
> *
> 2)
> A: "X is the best cricket player in the world."
> B: "No, X is the second-best cricket player; Y is the best."
> _(Could Lugubert's option maybe work here as well?)_
> 
> *So, again, my translation is somewhat roundabout.  I can't come up with a way to say second best without changing the sentence.
> 
> *
> 3)
> "This is the second-smallest dosa I've ever seen."
> _or_
> "She is the second-oldest woman in this town."
> _or_
> "He is the second-fastest runner in the country."
> _(...and other such sentences; I don't think Lugubert's option works so well in these.)_
> 
> What do you think?




For a lot of these, I'd employ an English structure or word or survive!


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## albondiga

panjabigator said:


> This is not to suggest that it doesn't exist or that Hindi has any short coming, but at least to my ears, hearing "sabse acchhaa" in such a context would not translate properly. I really can't say too well how this would translate. I'll PM you some other resources, if you're interested.


Thanks!



panjabigator said:


> For a lot of these, I'd employ an English structure or word or survive!


I'm not surprised; I'm finding that's all too often the best way to get around these problems in Hindi!


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## Illuminatus

I revived this thread because I found many of the sentences given here were wrong.

"She is the second-oldest woman in this town."                      
वह इस शहर में दुसरे नंबर की सब से बुड्ढी औरत हैं - The _doosre number ki _construction sounds very incorrect here. _Pehle number ki_ conveys the image First Class/First Grade. 

The correct sentence would be:
वह इस शहर की दूसरी सबसे बूढी औरत है.


 वह सारी देश में दुसरे नंबर का सब से जल्दी दौड़ने वाला हैं is wrong too. It should be _saare, _preferably _poore. _Also, it shouldn't be jaldi daudne waala, it should be _tej daudne waala.

_ वह पूरे देश में दुसरे नंबर का धावक है| _(He is the second ranked runner in whole country)
OR
_वह पूरे देश में दूसरा सबसे तेज धावक है|_ (He is the second fastest runner in the country)
_
Similar variations can be made for other sentences too.


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## lcfatima

I have commonly heard second rate, low quality, fake (dooplikait) expressed as "do nambar." 

e.g.

Yeh do numbar ghaDi hai.


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## Illuminatus

Exactly, and so it cannot be used to mean second-ranked.


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## BP.

_do number_ does imply _counterfeit_ but _doosray number pay_ and _ba-darja-e-doyam_ should mean at the second place. Of course I'm speaking Urdu here but you might plug the first of the two in Hindi without it being too awkward.


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## panjabigator

Thanks for reviving this thread.  I still couldn't think of a way to say second best, but seeing what you all suggest makes the answer seem all the more obvious.


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## Faylasoof

Traditionally, in Hindi-Urdu second best has been 'doosray number ka / par'. In Urdu, you can also use 'darja-e-dovvom' ( درجہ دوّم ), as BP said, or alternatively,' jaa-e-dovvom' ( جاۓ دوّم ).  Also 'doosray darjeh ka'  ( دوسرے درجہ كا  ). For street language you may use the first, but perhaps the last will also be intelligible to many Hindi speakers.   For second-longest etc., I feel you'll be restricted to comparitive compounds for both Hindi and Urdu.  So, longest = sab se lambaa (Hindi-Urdu) / lambaa tareen (Urdu and also colloqiual Hindi but not shudh Hindi).  But for second-longest I can tell you only the Urdu version = kam tar lambaa -- so a comparative compound.   Other comparitives in Urdu and colloquial Hindi are like this:  good = 'achchaa';  better = 'behtar';  best = 'behtareen'. Similarly, for comparisions of length etc.,e.g. long = lambaa;  longer = lambaa tar;   longest = lambaa tareen.  I don't know the shudh Hindi eqiuvalents.


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## Illuminatus

So, _tareen_ is used to form the superlative in Urdu?

Interestingly, the only place I have seen this word in use is the word _behtareen _(बेहतरीन)


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## BP.

Yes _beh, behtar, behtareen_ correspond to _good, better and best_. _beh_ has almost disappeared from everyday Urdu, people usually say _achcha_.


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## Illuminatus

Oh, we share the -tar comparative modifier then.

In Hindi, it goes like this:
_Adjective_ - Regular
_Adjective+tar_ - Comparative
_Adjective+tam_ - Superlative.

Eg. Adhik, Adhiktar, Adhiktam


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## Lugubert

Couldn't 'best' in Hindi be _sabse acchaa_?


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## Illuminatus

Indeed. That's the so-called _Shuddh Hindi _form.

_Adhik _means more and was only and example.


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## panjabigator

What about the _Shuddh_ Hindi equivalents for worse?  The Urdu ones are <bad>, <badtar>, etc.


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## Illuminatus

Accha contrasts with Bura.

So, we just say, bura, us-se bura, sabse bura


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## BP.

Excuse my uninformed arse but what does _shubdh_ mean?

Another question: Faylasoof used the word _salees_ in what I understand the same context as _shubdh,_ but I always thought _salees_ meant easy or _saada_.


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## panjabigator

<Shudh> is <Pak> in Urdu.

Really should stay on topic though.


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## Illuminatus

It is _Shuddh_ शुद्ध, which means pure in Hindi.


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## Faylasoof

For regular, comparatives and superlatives, BOTH Urdu and Hindi use: ‘achcha, usse achcha, sabse achcha’.; just like they use: ‘bura, usse bura, sabse bura’.  These are very much a part of everyday Urdu speech as well as Urdu prose and poetry. Urdu grammars mention both and some point out that they are from Old Hindi / KhaRee Bolee, the dialect of Delhi of old, or even earlier.  Urdu additionally uses forms lifted from Farsi: ‘achcha, behtar, behtareen’ etc. and ‘bad, badtar, badtareen’.  I think we are in danger of creating a divide here that doesn’t exist!!    BP, I’ve answered your question about ‘salees’ here:http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?p=6191868#post6191868


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## Illuminatus

I am often surprised by how some Urdu words are so familiar to us Hindi speakers while their very close relatives are un-heard of. Case in point: Bad, badtar and badtareen

We've all heard and used the phrase, _bad se badtar ho jaana_, but I've never heard badtareen.

We never use Beh, but commonly use Behtar and Behtareen


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## panjabigator

I never seen <beh> used in Urdu.  Could you use it in a sentence?


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## Illuminatus

Nor have I!!!

I was merely commenting on BP's post :



			
				BP said:
			
		

> Yes beh, behtar, behtareen correspond to good, better and best. beh has almost disappeared from everyday Urdu, people usually say achcha.


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## panjabigator

If it is synonymous with <acchaa>, could we have sentences such as:

<voh mera beh bacchaa hai> or < meraa mood beh hai>?


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## Illuminatus

Let's wait for BP and others.

But, the first one doesn't sound natural to me even with Accha, unless you are imagining a context I can't visualize.


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## panjabigator

Eh, I've heard it before from mothers "mothering" their sons, if you could imagine.  I'm getting ready to sleep and that's the best example I could come up with.  My Hindi is much better when I'm in India...


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## Illuminatus

OK, I get what you mean! _Buenas noches!_


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## BP.

Sirs, I too have only once in my entire life heard the word _beh_, and it was from my Urdu teacher at school. He was telling us the 3 comparative forms I quoted in the example above.

Even if the word exists, its now obsolete.


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## Faylasoof

Yeap! I'm afraid  in Urdu ‘beh’ now exists only in grammar books (and lessons) to show us where ‘behtar’ and ‘behtareen’ come from. I can look up old Urdu poetry if you really need to know how it was used. Also, I’ve only heard it from ‘Farsiphones’ in Indo-Pak who use it in their Urdu in the same way we use ‘vaah / waah!’= bravo /good /great. Now if you want to know more about ‘vaah’, we’ll need to start a new thread for this. So please feel free.


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