# jeho



## djwebb1969

I'm making heavy work of the pronouns, but started following Enquiring Mind's advice to consult the Tahal grammar.

Looking at the accusative of *on* and *ono*, my textbook has this (Communicative Czech, p48):

*on, ono*: *ho, jeho, jej*, with preposition *na něho* (Ma), *na něj *(Ma, Mi, N)

No further information is given - and I wouldn't recommend this textbook to others. 

1. It suggests *ho*, *jeho* and *jej* are all the accusatives of *on* and *ono*, but the Tahal grammar Enquiring Mind has recommended shows that *ho* (and *jej* in higher style) are the accusatives of *on*, with *ho* (and *je* in higher style) as the accusatives of *ono*.

Tahal does not show that *jeho* is the accusative of either *on* or *ono*: am I right to conclude it is better to keep this as a possessive meaning "his" and not to use this as the accusative of either pronoun? Yet my textbook gives the example: *jeho neznám*.

Tahal does not show that *jej* is right as the accusative of *ono* either - presumably Communicative Czech is just wrong on this.

2. My textbook implies that *něho* can only be used for animate masculine nouns, but *něj* can be used for all nouns. This point about animacy is not shown in Tahal's grammar.

3. My textbook shows *něho* can be used for the accusative of *ono* after a preposition, but Tahal show the higher-style form is *ně*, not *něho*.

The various sources all have totally different forms!


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## bibax

Original accusative forms:

on: *jej* (animate, inanimate), *něj* can be shortened to *-ň* after a preposition: pro něj -> proň, na něj -> naň;

chlap, dub: vidím jej, pro něj;

ono: *je*;

město: vidím je, pro ně;

These forms are always correct.

The forms jeho and ho (unstressed) are originally genitives. They can be used instead of accusative as a direct object, however the stressed jeho not for the neuter and masculine inanimate. But who cares? Nowadays ho is commonly used instead of (hyper)correct je:

město: vidím ho (IMO nearly nobody says: vidím je), pro ně (pro něho is incorrect);


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## djwebb1969

Thanks I see - the presentation in Communicative Czech is just totally wrong. The book has a blurb on the back about the experience of the writers - yet it seems both Ivana Rešková and Magdalena Pintarová could do with a course in basic Czech themselves...


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## hypoch

Yeah, tough stuff. My intake on this is:

1. To me, *jej *(masculine)is in higher style and/or Bohemian (not sure about the Bohemian part, to my Moravian ears it sounds a bit like that). *Je* (neuter) is also in higher style. I would almost always use *ho *(viděl jsem *ho* venku). *Jeho *is quite normal for the accusative if you want to stress it (*jeho *neznám - it is him I don't know). I'd say *jeho *can  only stress the masculine animate form. The neutral way of saying this  (and statistically therefore much more frequent) is Neznám *ho*. My recommendation to you would be to only use *ho *(and *jeho *if you want to stress it).

2. I don't feel there is anything wrong with using *něho *for inanimate nouns: "Donesl jsem stůl a dal na *něho *ubrus (I brought a table and put the tablecloth on it)" sounds perfectly OK to me - that's the way I would say it.

3. Not quite sure about this one - I don't find *ně *too bookish here but would probably use něho. (To okno je špinavé, podívej se na *něho*.) My use may be Moravian though.

As  I have mentioned, my perception may be influenced by my region and/or  personal preferences. Hope this help at least a bit though. And good luck  !


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## djwebb1969

Well, it seems Czechs vary among themselves, but I suppose all languages do exhibit this phenomenon in varying degrees.


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## bibax

My rules:

_Original accusative forms:_

*jej*, pro *něj* - only masculine (both animate and inanimate);
*je* (rather bookish, at least in Prague), pro *ně* - only neuter;

_Original genitive forms:_

*jeho* (stressed), rarely pro *něho* (I prefer pro něj) - only masculine animate;

*ho* (unstressed) - masculine animate/inanimate (common), neuter (formerly colloquial, now widespread);


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## djwebb1969

Bibax, that makes it a lot easier to remember.


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