# Danach/Dann



## maida

Hello!

I would like some clarity regarding the use of words like "Danach" and "Dann" particularly in terms of word order.

I understand that using them inverts the word order of a sentence, making the verb come directly after the Danach or Dann, and before the pronoun. (as in a sentence like : "Danach bin ich aufgestanden.")

But I was wondering what heppens if the sentence is joined with an "und".

Like "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und (I ate breakfast)"

Would it be "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und habe ich gefruhstuckt"
Or "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und ich habe gefruhstuckt"

Does it revert to the regular word order after an "und" or does the inversion still carry on since the sentence begins with "Danach"

Thanks!!


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## Frank78

maida said:


> Like "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und (I ate breakfast)"
> 
> Would it be "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und habe ich gefrühstückt"
> Or "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und ich habe gefrühstückt"



It's standard word order then. But most people don't mention the subject "ich" again because it stays the same as in the first part:

"Danach bin ich aufgestanden und habe gefrühstückt"

P.S: If you don't have umlauts and the ß use ae for ä, oe for ö and ue for ü, ss for ß.


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## Hutschi

Basically you have two main clauses connected by "und". If you do not omit "ich", for both main clauses the rule "finite verb at second place" holds.

This is the cause that the second sentence was correct regarding the word order.
The conjunction "und" does not count here.

If you include "dann" in the second part, the pronoun of the second part is moved behind the finite verb. The infinite part builds a verb bracket together with the finite part, it is at the end of the main clause.

Compare:

"Ich bin aufgestanden und danach habe ich gefrühstückt."



> Maida wrote: I understand that using them inverts the word order of a sentence,  making the verb come directly after the Danach or Dann, ...


Please note, that "dann/danach" can also be included after the verb.

Ich bin dann aufgestanden und habe gefrühstückt.
Ich bin aufgestanden und habe dann gefrühstückt.

"Danach" and "dann" are exchangeable in the most contexts.


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> It's standard word order then. But most people don't mention the subject "ich" again because it stays the same as in the first part:
> 
> "Danach bin ich aufgestanden und habe gefrühstückt"
> 
> P.S: If you don't have umlauts and the ß use ae for ä, oe for ö and ue for ü, ss for ß.


*Moderator note: On top of the edit window there are buttons for ß, ä, ö, ü, Ä, Ö and Ü. If you don't see them click on "Go Advanced".*


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## KW39

Can both danach and dann be used in the same sentence? Would it change the meaning?

A woman is talking about her nephew, who is a teenager:

Gestern abend wollte ich mit ihm zusammen den Krimi im zweiten Programm ansehen - der ist ja jugendfrei. Danach könnte er dann noch ein bisschen zu den Nachbarn rübergehen, oder lesen, hatte ich ihm vorgeschlagen. Seine Antwort habe ich hier mal aufgeschrieben, ohne Gewähr für die Rechtschribeung, wenn es überhaupt so etwas in dieser Sprache gibt.

I had suggested to him that afterwards he could go over to the neighbors again for a little while or read.

Thanks in advance.


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## Hutschi

_Danach (after that) könnte er dann (in this case/if he likes) noch ein bisschen zu den Nachbarn rübergehen, oder lesen, hatte ich ihm vorgeschlagen._

Hi, in your special sentence the first one assigns a time.
The second one is a kind of flavoring particle. It adds weakly "in this case", the time relation is connected with an "in this case" condition. Both dann and danach are very similar and overlapping. In the sentence this connotation is weak and depends on context. "Dann" may have the connotation of an "if he likes/if he wants" condition.

Compare: if then vs. if than

Both mean basically the same, only the point of view is changed.

"Danach" does not include the "in dem Fall" connotation. It defines a sequence.
"Dann" defines also a sequence but includes a kind of emotional part  in your sentence. It reduces formality.


_Dann (in this case/if the condition is fulfilled) könnte er danach (after that) noch ein bisschen zu den Nachbarn rübergehen, oder lesen, hatte ich ihm vorgeschlagen. 

---
PS: This is a context where "dann" and"danach" have different meanings._


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## KW39

Danke!


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## bearded

Hutschi said:


> Compare: if then vs. if than


Can you please provide a couple of examples (especially with 'if than')? Thank you in advance.


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## Hutschi

_If x is  lower than 10 than print "X is lower than 10"
Wenn x kleiner als 10 ist, dann drucke "x ist kleiner als 10"_ (_Dann _refers to a condition in such context.) 

It means 
_If the condition is true than react in a special way. _

You can translate it in special context to:
_
Warte, bis die Bedingung erfüllt ist, danach reagiere.
Wait until the condition is fulfilled - then react._  (_Danach _refers to time sequence.)


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## bearded

Hutschi said:


> If x is lower than 10 than print "X is lower than 10"





Hutschi said:


> _If the condition is true than react in a special way. _


Sorry, in English I would say then in both sentences. I hope natives will confirm.


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## Hutschi

I used "than" very often in such context. It is also a base word in Basic language.
If I write "then", it will will not work in Basic language.
It is also used very often in pseudo code.

Basic: if x>10 than print "x < 10" (Basic language)

The base structure is: _if condition is fulfilled than do action 1 else do action 2 _(pseudocode)

---
It would be interesting: In which case do English natives use "than" in natural language?


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## bearded

For me, 'than' is only comparative (more than, less than…).
See also here:
if-then sentences.


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## Perseas

bearded said:


> Sorry, in English I would say then in both sentences.


Me too, but  I often see "than" in a sentence where I would have used "then". Here's an interesting article:
When To Use Then and Than


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## bearded

I would say:  than = als (comparative), then = dann/in diesem Fall.
Cf. also Than/Then question


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## Hutschi

bearded said:


> than = als (comparative)


Could you give an example, please? I do not have an idea in which way it can be "als". Maybe I'm blocked.


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## bearded

Hutschi said:


> Could you give an example, please? I do not have an idea in which way it can be "als". Maybe I'm blocked.


Mach ich gerne:
Wenn ich jünger als Du wäre, dann hätte ich noch schwarzes Haar.
_If I were younger than you, then I'd still have black hair._


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## Hutschi

I see. That works indeed. And I was blocked, indeed.  Thank you.


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## bearded

Keine Ursache!


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## elroy

bearded is right about “then” and “than.”


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## Hutschi

Hi, why is it:
wenn dann sonst = if than else ?

Is this wrong?


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> Is this wrong?


Yes, _if th*a*n else_ is wrong. Correct is:  _if th*e*n else_.


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## Hutschi

Thank you, Bernd. 
It is really wrong.


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## berndf

Hutschi said:


> Basic: if x>10 than print "x < 10" (Basic language)


No, that is wrong. In Basic as in all programming languages and as in ordinary language it is always _if-th*e*n_ and never _if-th*a*n_.


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## Hutschi

You are right. I cannot strike it out or remove it anymore.
It was a twist in my brain.


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## berndf

It is confusing, especially because in English there is no difference in pronunciation between _then_ and _than_. Like German _denn_ and _dann_, they originally were mere variants of the same word. The semantic differentiation happened in both languages about 300 years ago but in opposite ways.


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## elroy

berndf said:


> Correct is: _if th*e*n else_.


 I can’t think of a context in which this could be used.  Can you give an example?  Is this a programming language thing?


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## berndf

elroy said:


> I can’t think of a context in which this could be used.  Can you give an example?  Is this a programming language thing?


*If* you want to see a movie *then* we can go to the cinema. *Else* we could could meet in a pub.


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## elroy

Oh, I thought you meant it as an uninterrupted string.


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## Schlabberlatz

elroy said:


> Is this a programming language thing?


Yes:
Conditional (computer programming) - Wikipedia


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## Hutschi

In the German language the translation is part of natural language.

Wenn ..., dann ... . Sonst/andernfalls ... .

"Dann" may be omitted in natural language, it is used to emphasize the part and make clear that it is a condition.

I Hope I wrote the English "then" correctly when I worked as technical writer. It mixed up later - else it would not have worked in case of programming. (We had quality management with native speakers, they would have corrected it.)

---
Dann has two meanings:

1. Danach - as synonym
Then as part of a time sequence. This may also be part of the meaning in case of a condition change. It refers to "Wann"="When".
2. Then - under a condition -  This refers to "if".  (In natural language and in some programming languages.)


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