# carry / bear / tolerate / wear



## ThomasK

In Dutch all four can be translated as *'dragen'*, though 'tolerate' is mostly translated as * 'verdragen' *(and 'dulden') . 

Can you translate _carry, bear, tolerate _and _wear _by means of one verb? If not, how many do you need? 

In French I think *porter *can be used in most cases, but _*supporter *_is the translation of _verdragen_. 
In German: *tragen *vs. *ertragen *(dulden ?), I think


----------



## Gavril

Slovene (and perhaps other Slavic languages) can use the verb stem *n-s *(_nos-/naš-/nes-_) for these meanings:

*nositi* "carry", "wear (clothing)"
*prenašati* / *prenesti* "tolerate (heat, pain, stress etc.)"


----------



## arielipi

In hebrew you can do it with plausible to well fit results, though wear is better translated to the defined verbs and the same for tolerate.

* wear in hebrew comes with a defined verb to each cloth type.
* essentially tolerate and bear in hebrew are mostly combined, but there are specific for each.


----------



## bibax

Czech:

*nésti* = to carry, to bear (fruit);
*nositi* (iterative) = to carry, to bear (arms), to wear (dress);
*snésti* (perf.), *snášeti* (impf.) = to tolerate (a person), to withstand (strain), to bear (comparison);

Root: *nes-*, *nos-*, *-nás-* (only with verbal prefix; _*-nás-ja-_ gives _-náš-e-_);


----------



## ThomasK

@bibax: interesting to learn that bearing can refer to withstanding and comparison. But could you illustrate those using a sentence? The point is: I cannot quite guess the precise meaning. I imagine lots of derivations (using prefixes and nouns) are based on those. 

@arielipi: what 'defined' verbs do you mean, Arielipi? And what is the root of your _wear_-verb? Do you use it in lots of combinations (nouns, derivations)?


----------



## bibax

ThomasK said:


> @bibax: interesting to learn that bearing can refer to withstanding and comparison. But could you illustrate those using a sentence? The point is: I cannot quite guess the precise meaning. I imagine lots of derivations (using prefixes and nouns) are based on those.


Her later work *does not bear* comparison with her earlier novels. = ... *nesnese* srovnání s ...;
The material *withstands* high strain. = Materiál *snese* vysoké namáhání.
I can't *stand* you. = Nesnáším tě (= nemohu tě *snést*).


----------



## arielipi

Just to add, in hebrew the equivalent of bear/tolerate can also be meant for withstand.

Defined verbs are the association of a root with the verb; As I said, to each cloth-type there's a specific defined verb (or root if you prefer)
Since roots are the basis of everything, yes we use them in derivations, nouns, etc. (I just dont remember their terms in english)

cloth type                    |    wear                               |    unwear
general                        |    לובשים lovshim                    |   פושטים poshtim
shirt חולצה khultza          |        "                                 |        "
pants מכנסיים michnasayim |     "                                   | "
dress שמלה simla            |     "                                    | "
socks גרביים garbayim      |    גורבים gorvim                     |
belt חגורה khagura          |    חוגרים khogrim                    |  מתירים matirim
archaic use:                 |    אוזרים ozrim                        | מפתחים mefatkhim
bra חזיה khaziya             |   רוכסים rochsim, פורפים porfim   | פותחים potkhim
robe חלוק khaluk             |  עוטים otim                            | מסירים masirim
hat כובע kova                 |  חובשים khovshim                   |  "
mitten כסיות casiyot         |   עוטים otim                          | "
gloves כפפות kfafot          |   לובשים עוטים lovshim otim       | "
buttons כפתורים kaftorim   |    מכפתרים רוכסים פורפים mekafterim rochsim porfim | פותחים potkhim
zippers רוכסנים rochsanim  |  רוכסים                                 | "
shoes נעליים na'alayim, boots מגפיים magafayim, sandals סנדלים sandalim | נועלים no'alim  | חולצים kholtzim
uniform מדים madim (army) | עולים על go(ing) on | פושטים poshtim
sleeves שרוולים sharvulim |                               | חופתים khoftim
coat מעיל me'il              |  לובשים עוטים מתעטפים מתכרבלים lovshim otim mit'atfim mitkarbelim | פושטים מסירים poshtim masirim
glasses משקפיים mishkafayim |  מרכיבים markivim | מסירים masirim
tie עניבה aniva | עונבים קושרים onvim koshrim | מתירים matirim
scarf (scarf)  צעיף tza'if  |  עוטים כורכים מתעטפים מתכסים otim korchim mit'atfim mitkasim | מסירים masirim
scarf (veil)   רעלה re'ala  | עוטים otim | מסירים masirim
jewelry תכשיטים tachshitim | עונדים עודים ondim odim | מסירים מורידים masirim moridim


jewelry is the general word, 
ring טבעת taba'at
bracelet צמיד tzamid
necklace שרשרת sharsheret
medallion, pendant תליון tilyon
earring עגיל agil
nose ring נזם nezem

EDIT: 


bibax said:


> Her later work *does not bear* comparison with her earlier novels. = ... *nesnese* srovnání s ...;
> The material *withstands* high strain. = Materiál *snese* vysoké namáhání.
> I can't *stand *you. = Nesnáším tě (= nemohu tě *snést*).


In hebrew we also use that.
For cant stand we actually use bear.

EDIT 2:
and of course the translations themselves
carry  לשאת laset root נ-ש-א also לסחוב liskhov root ס-ח-ב
bear   לסבול lisbol root ס-ב-ל  also לשאת
tolerate   לסבול " " " also להתיר lehatir root נ-ת-ר


----------



## apmoy70

In Greek:

To carry, bear: *«Φέρω»* ['fero] < Classical Gr. v. *«φέρω» pʰérō* --> _to carry, bear, endure, provide_ (PIE *bʰer-, _to bear, carry_ cf Skt भरति (bhArati); Lat. ferre; OCS бьрати > Russ. брать (brat);  Proto-Germanic *beraną > Ger. Burde, Eng. bear).

To tolerate: 
1/ *«Ανέχομαι»* [a'nexome] < Classical Gr. v. *«ἀνέχομαι» ănékʰŏmæ* --> _to hold up what is one's own, bear up, bear with patience_ < Compound, prefix and preposition *«ἀνὰ» anằ* --> _up along_ (PIE *h₂en-, _up, on high_ cf Av. ana & OP anā, _upwards, along_; Proto-Germanic *ana > Dt. aan, Ger. an, Eng. on) + medio-passive form of v. *«ἔχω» ékʰō* --> _to have, possess_ (PIE *seǵʰ-, _to possess, hold fast, retain, have_ cf Skt सहते (sAhate), _to prevail, overpower, conquer_).

2/ *«Μακροθυμώ»* [makroθi'mo] < Hellenistic Gr. v. *«μακροθυμέω/μακροθυμῶ» măkrŏtʰŭméō (uncontracted)/măkrŏtʰūmô (contracted)* --> _to bear patiently, forbear_ < Compound, combining form *«μακρο-» makrŏ-* of adj. *«μακρός» makrós* --> _long, great, tall_ (PIE *meh₂ḱ-, _long, thin, tall, great_ cf Lat. macer > It./Sp./Por. magro; Proto-Germanic *magras > Ger./Dt. mager, Eng. meager) + masc. noun *«θῡμός» tʰūmós* --> _spirit, courage, anger_ (PIE *dʰuH-mo-, _smoke_ cf Skt धूम (dhUma); Lat. fūmus > It./Por. fumo, Sp. humo, Fr. fumée, Eng. fume, Rom. fum; OCS дымъ).

1 is what prevails in the vernacular, 2 is learned and considered bookish. 

To wear: *«Φορώ»* [fo'ro] and colloquially, *«φοράω»* [fo'ra.o] < Classical Gr. v. *«φορέω/φορῶ» pʰŏréō (uncontracted)/pʰŏrô (contracted)* --> _to wear (clothes, armour);_ as a quality of mind/body, _to possess, hold_ < from *«φέρω» pʰérō* (see above) with _o-grade_.


----------



## rusita preciosa

Russian:

I can think of two families of verbs that have the meaning of bearing/supporting/carrying/tolerating: 
- With the root *- nes/nos- *(to carry/to bear)
- With the root *–derj-* (to hold/to bear)

*носить* _imperfective verb _/nosit'/ - carry (around, repeatedly); wear (clothing) 
*нести *_perfectuive verb _/nesti/ - carry, bear

*выносить* _imperfective verb _/vynosit/ - carry out; tolerate; support/tolerate; bear to term (pregnancy)
*вынести* _perfective verb __/vynesti/-_carry out, tolerate (once)

*держать* _imperfective verb __/derjat’/ -_ hold; bear

*выдержать* _perfective verb __/vyderjat’/ -_ bear; tolerate; be able to support (once)
__*выдерживать* _imperfective verb __/vyderjivat’/ - _bear, support (repeatedly, constantly)__


----------



## Gavril

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek:
> 
> To carry, bear: *«Φέρω»* ['fero] < Classical Gr. v. *«φέρω» pʰérō* --> _to carry, bear, endure, provide_ (PIE *bʰer-, _to bear, carry_ cf Skt भरति (bhArati); Lat. ferre; OCS бьрати > Russ. брать (brat);  Proto-Germanic *beraną > Ger. Burde, Eng. bear).



I feel as though I've asked this before, but does Modern Greek still use different roots to express different tenses and aspects of "bear/carry" (cf. Ancient Greek _phérō _"I am carrying", _oísō_ "I will carry", _ḗnenkon_ "I carried")?


----------



## ThomasK

rusita preciosa said:


> Russian:
> 
> *держать* _imperfective verb __/derjat’/ -_ hold; bear
> 
> *выдержать* _perfective verb __/vyderjat’/ -_ bear; tolerate; be able to support (once)
> *выдерживать* _imperfective verb __/vyderjivat’/ - _bear, support (repeatedly, constantly)



 Does that imply that the _bear _verbs are used in a fig. sense, mainly as tolerating? Does the _vy_- refer to _out-/ ex_- or _under_- ?


----------



## rusita preciosa

ThomasK said:


> Does that imply that the _bear _verbs are used in a fig. sense, mainly as tolerating? Does the _vy_- refer to _out-/ ex_- or _under_- ?


both figurative (e.g. he couldn't bear keeping a secret and told everything) or literal (e.g. concrete slabs [are able to] to bear a structure). 
The prefix *вы- *has the meaning of "out/ex-".


----------



## ThomasK

I just wondered: do the /derjat/ verbs refer to standing? I suppose they don't, but I thought of _I can't stand _(and in Dutch _uit-staan_)


----------



## bibax

держать (in Czech držeti) means to hold, to keep, to retain, ...

In Czech we can also say Nemohu ho vy*stát*. = I can't *stand* him. (stát = to stand)


----------



## ThomasK

But that reminds me : we can also use _houden _like that (and then _uithouden_)...


----------



## apmoy70

Gavril said:


> I feel as though I've asked this before, but does Modern Greek still use different roots to express different tenses and aspects of "bear/carry" (cf. Ancient Greek _phérō _"I am carrying", _oísō_ "I will carry", _ḗnenkon_ "I carried")?


No (thank God) MG has simplified things alot, and for this specific verb the tenses are expressed quite predictably: 
*«Φέρω»* ['fero]: _I bear/carry_, 
*«Έφερα»* ['efera]: _I carried/bare_, 
*«Θα φέρω»* [θa 'fero] (future particle *«θα»* [θa] (historically a contraction of *«θέλω να»* ['θelo na] --> _want to_) + non-past form of the verb): _I shall/will carry/bear_,
*«Έχω φέρει»* ['exo 'feri] (1st person present ind. of the auxiliary verb *«έχω»* ['exo] --> _have_ + non-finite form of the v.): _I have carried/borne_,
*«Είχα φέρει»* ['ixa 'feri] (1st person aorist of the auxiliary verb *«έχω»* ['exo] --> _have_ + non-finite form of the v.): _I had carried/borne_,
*«Θα έχω φέρει»* [θa 'exo 'feri]: _I will have carried/borne_,
*«Θα είχα φέρει»* [θa 'ixa 'feri]: _I would have carried/borne_
but...
the irregular ancient forms of different tenses and aspects of the verb, have survived in the modern language, in compounds, e.g:
*«οισοφάγος»* [iso'faɣos] (masc.) --> _esophagus/oesophagus_ (future active form *«οἴσω»* of v. *«φέρω»* + aorist stem *«ἔφαγ-»* of v. *«ἐσθίω»* --> _to eat_)
*«διένεξη»* [ði'eneksi] (fem.) --> _dispute, collision_ (prefix & preposition *«δια-»* + aorist stem *«ἐνεγκ-»* of v. *«φέρω»*)


----------



## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> In Dutch all four can be translated as *'dragen'*, though 'tolerate' is mostly translated as * 'verdragen' *(and 'dulden') .
> 
> Can you translate _carry, bear, tolerate _and _wear _by means of one verb? If not, how many do you need?
> 
> In French I think *porter *can be used in most cases, but _*supporter *_is the translation of _verdragen_.
> In German: *tragen *vs. *ertragen *(dulden ?), I think


 In Tagalog;1.) Carry= Daladalahin/bitbitin 2.) Bear= Pasanin 3.) tolerate= tiisin/binabatah    4.)wear= Suot suot/ ibinihis


----------



## ThomasK

So no resemblance or common root at all, no common idea of carrying/ bearing ? Or do I see something like a _bin _root in three of them? What does it mean then?


----------



## mataripis

mataripis said:


> In Tagalog;1.) Carry= Daladalahin/bitbitin 2.) Bear= Pasanin 3.) tolerate= tiisin/binabatah    4.)wear= Suot suot/ ibinihis


 number 1 (carry) is commonly used in holding  object. number 2 is about the feelings/emotions.number 3 is about suffering in trauma or unexpected events and number 4 is about costume or make up that bring changes in physical appearance/look.


----------



## ThomasK

OK, but how about the *bin *element in three of those words? Is that a common root or some kind of suffix, or ?


----------



## aruniyan

Here it is in Tamil,

carry : *suma*, sumai(burden)
bear : *poru* (also comes close  "to tolerate", and "_poruthu irunthu paar"_= wait and see, )
tolerate : *thaangu* (also with*stand*)


----------



## إسكندراني

In arabic the first three share the same root, but not 'wear'
حمل To carry
استحمل To bear , to tolerate


----------



## ThomasK

Arabic: Could you give us the transcription ?  ---  How do you express wearing clothes then?  How do you literally translate: _I [wear] clothes_?

Tamil: could you give more uses of _poru_?  can you use it literally? --- _Thaangu_: maybe there is a parallel with the English _I cannot stand it_. Does it somehow refer to standing? Can you use it in different ways/ meanings?


----------



## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Arabic: Could you give us the transcription ?  ---  How do you express wearing clothes then?  How do you literally translate: _I [wear] clothes_?  Tamil: could you give more uses of _poru_?  can you use it literally? --- _Thaangu_: maybe there is a parallel with the English _I cannot stand it_. Does it somehow refer to standing? Can you use it in different ways/ meanings?



_poru_ - literally its "not going after something or someone" so comes with the meaning wait or bear.
_
thaangu _- no, its not  standing, its withstanding, _kayiru thaangaathu_ -this rope cannot withstand, but its root is "*to keep with in a higher position*", other meaning/usage.. _"avanai thaang*aa*the_" - "_*dont* give importance to him"_. or pleading to do.


----------



## ThomasK

Thank you, very interesting additions! 

Is _poru _somethinglike not following? I suppose that is too literal an interpretation (I suppose you don't say: don't follow/ _poru _him). 

_Thaangu _: so a verb with a negative meaning, not a negative form.


----------



## ancalimon

Turkish:

Carry: taşımak (to carry)

Bear: katlanmak  (to be folded), taşımak (to carry), çekmek (to pull), tahammül etmek (Arabic loan)

Tolerate: hoş görmek (to see nice ~ to not to see the bad), göz yummak (to close the eye), tolere etmek

Wear: giymek  (but we can also say "to carry clothes" if we are talking about whether the clothes suit or not to the person wearing them)


----------



## ahmedcowon

إسكندراني said:


> In arabic the first three share the same root, but not 'wear'
> حمل To carry
> استحمل To bear , to tolerate



Also تحمّل is the common in MSA and other dialects



ThomasK said:


> Arabic: Could you give us the transcription ?  ---  How do you express wearing clothes then?  How do you literally translate: _I [wear] clothes_?



As إسكندراني said, they share the same root حـ مـ ل [ḥ-m-l]
حمل /ḥamala/ = to carry
استحمل /istaḥmala/ = to bear, to tolerate
تحمل /taḥammala/ = to bear, to tolerate


لبس /labesa/ = ارتدى /irtada/ = to wear


----------



## ancalimon

Hamal is an Arabic loan in Turkish meaning "someone who carries things in exchange for money"


----------



## aruniyan

ThomasK said:


> Thank you, very interesting additions!
> 
> Is _poru _somethinglike not following? I suppose that is too literal an interpretation (I suppose you don't say: don't follow/ _poru _him).
> 
> _Thaangu _: so a verb with a negative meaning, not a negative form.



no, its "_not to go for it._"

poruthu kol = bear with it.
poru = wait
porumai = tolerance
por*aa*mai = envy (*not* tolerant)

thaangu = withstand -i think has positive meaning also.


----------



## ThomasK

Thanks, everyone. Just one more question regarding Arabic h-m-l: are there other uses (and meanings) of this word, not meaning 'to carry'?


----------



## ahmedcowon

ThomasK said:


> Thanks, everyone. Just one more question regarding Arabic h-m-l: are there other uses (and meanings) of this word, not meaning 'to carry'?



The only other word that uses that root with other meaning is حمل /ḥamal/ which means "lamb (young sheep)", other words that use that root are linked to the meanings of "carry, bear, tolerate, load":

load (verb) = حمل /ḥammala/
load (noun) = حمل /ḥiml/ = حمولة /ḥomoola/
download = تحميل /taḥmeel/
pregnancy = carrying = حمل /ḥaml/
pregnant = carrier = حامل /ḥaamil/
portable = carried = محمول /maḥmool/ (we use this word to mean "mobile phone" in Egypt)
probability = bearing = احتمال /iḥtemaal/

I also want to say that letter "h" is not the equivalent of the Arabic letter (ح (حـ. There's no equivalent for ح in the Latin script, so it is usually being replaced with "h" in Arabic loanwords in other languages. [h = (ه (هـ]


----------



## ThomasK

Very interesting additions, Ahmed: some of them I could link with _dragen_, carry, in Dutch, but not all. It seems to me that we do not linguistically express a link between loading and carrying but of course we do carry a load (_we dragen een lading/ een last_). Do you then use two _h-m-l _words next to another one?


----------



## ahmedcowon

yes, it's ok to use two words that share the same root after each other because they are different words

he carried a load = حمل حمل /ḥamala ḥiml/


----------



## إسكندراني

احتمل (iHtamal) also means 'to be possible' (e.g. احتمال iHtima:l = a possibility) and 'to have another meaning' (e.g. الكلمة تحتمل معاني عديدة - the word can [have/hold] several meanings'.


ancalimon said:


> Hamal is an Arabic loan in Turkish meaning "someone who carries things in exchange for money"


Yes, we say Ha:mel or Hamma:l to mean the same thing. It's a good loan


----------



## biala

arielipi said:


> Just to add, in hebrew the equivalent of bear/tolerate can also be meant for withstand.
> 
> 
> 
> and of course the translations themselves
> carry  לשאת laset root נ-ש-א also לסחוב liskhov root ס-ח-ב
> bear   לסבול lisbol root ס-ב-ל  also לשאת
> tolerate   לסבול " " " also להתיר lehatir root נ-ת-ר



A small addition: Sabal (root s-v-l  ס-ב-ל which generally means to bear or to suffer) means a porter, a man who's work is to carry heavy things. 
In the bible, "Sevel"  also appears in the meaning of a heavy burden.


----------



## Outsider

_Carry, bear, tolerate_: you can use *suportar* for any of them in Portuguese in some cases. But _carry_ doesn't always translate as _suportar_. For example, when it means transport you need a specific verb. Indeed there are many, more specific words, not all synonymous, to translate each of the three words.
_Wear _is a different verb. In the broadest sense you can say *usar.* For clothes there is also *vestir*, and for shoes *calçar*.


----------



## ThomasK

_Suportar _and maybe _transportar_, I guess: I recognize this difference in Dutch too, but in Dutch there is an entirely different verb for 'transport', _voeren_. I think we don't spontaneously associate _dragen _(carry, bear, ...) with _voeren_... I'd need more time to explain - and first perceive - the difference precisely. --- But as for wearing: do you say _vestir [trousers] calçar [shoes]_, with a direct object?


----------



## biala

ahmedcowon said:


> The only other word that uses that root with other meaning is حمل /ḥamal/ which means "lamb (young sheep)", other words that use that root are linked to the meanings of "carry, bear, tolerate, load":
> 
> load (verb) = حمل /ḥammala/
> load (noun) = حمل /ḥiml/ = حمولة /ḥomoola/
> download = تحميل /taḥmeel/
> pregnancy = carrying = حمل /ḥaml/
> pregnant = carrier = حامل /ḥaamil/
> portable = carried = محمول /maḥmool/ (we use this word to mean "mobile phone" in Egypt)
> probability = bearing = احتمال /iḥtemaal/
> 
> I also want to say that letter "h" is not the equivalent of the Arabic letter (ح (حـ. There's no equivalent for ح in the Latin script, so it is usually being replaced with "h" in Arabic loanwords in other languages. [h = (ه (هـ]



This is interesting, in Hebrew the root חמל  H-M-L is connected to pity, to feel mercy for somebody, but the root R-H-M which also means to have mercy,
is also connected to the word רחם Rehem, which means the womb, where a woman carries her child while being pregnant. I guess it's not a coincidence.


----------



## ThomasK

Interesting note! I could imagine a link between pity and carrying: _have pity _could be paraphrased as _bear with me _(though more neg.), carry me (fig.) in my distress, and indeed, womb and carrying seem semantically linked indeed. Hope someone will be able to 'enlighten' us on the etymology of both...


----------



## biala

And another point: one of the names of God in Hebrew is "HaRaḥaman", the one who has mercy. One of the characteristics ("Midot") of the mercy of God is considered to be "Nosse Avon" which literally means - bears/ carries the sins.  In the book of Exodus 34, 6-7: " El Raḥum.... Nosse Avon".
Here as well, mercy has a literal connection to bearing or carrying.


----------



## ahmedcowon

biala said:


> This is interesting, in Hebrew the root חמל  H-M-L is connected to pity, to feel mercy for somebody, but the root R-H-M which also means to have mercy,
> is also connected to the word רחם Rehem, which means the womb, where a woman carries her child while being pregnant. I guess it's not a coincidence.



"Womb" also means رحم /raḥem/ in Arabic and it's from the root رحم /R-Ḥ-M/ which means to have mercy, but "pity" in Arabic is from a different root شفق /SH-F-Q/, so the connection between "pity" and "Ḥ-M-L" is not exist in Arabic as it is in Hebrew.

Maybe* when someone carries a heavy load, you feel pity for him. *Arabic (carry,load) and Hebrew (pity) are all from the root Ḥ-M-L.

Do you pronounce "ח" as "KH" in Hebrew?


----------



## biala

yes, ח is pronounced Kh. Probably I should have written "ḥ".


----------



## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> --- But as for wearing: do you say _vestir [trousers] calçar [shoes]_, with a direct object?


Yes, exactly. Another possible verb meaning "wear", both for clothes and shoes, is _levar_, "take"... which as a matter of fact can in other cases translate "carry", as in _levar uma arma escondida_, carrying a concealed weapon.


----------



## Dymn

Catalan:
1. Support, carry the weight of: *suportar, aguantar*
2. Tolerate, allow the existence of something without interference, be able to accept: *suportar, aguantar*
3. Carry: *portar, dur*
4. Wear: *portar, dur
*
_suportar_: from Latin _supporto _(_sub- _'under' + _portare _'carry, bear)
_aguantar_: from Italian _agguantare _'to grab, catch' (_ad- _'on, to' + _guanto _'glove')
_portar_: from Latin _portare
dur_: from Latin _ducere _'to lead, pull'

Spanish:
1. *soportar, aguantar*
2. *soportar, aguantar*
3. *llevar*
4. *llevar
*
_llevar_: from Latin _levare _'to rift, raise'


----------



## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> OK, but how about the *bin *element in three of those words? Is that a common root or some kind of suffix, or ?



I am not a Tagalog expert, but I suspect not. -_*in*_ is an infix and affix in Tagalog: _b*in*abatah _and _ib*in*ihis_ seem to contain the roots _bata(h)_ and _bihis _(or similar) plus infixed -_in_, while _bitbit*in *_seems to contain the root _bit_ plus suffixed -_in_.

There could be a relationship between the _bat-_ of _binabatah_ and the _bit-_ of _bitbitin_, but I don't know enough Tagalog morphology to tell whether you could regularly derive one from the other.


----------

