# что (pronunciation)



## europoly

So I've always thought it followed normal(!) Russian pronunciation, like [t͡ɕto] ('chto' romanized), but lately I noticed that the songs I listened to, and even Google translate pronounces it as if it were "што" (shto).

I checked Wiktionary for the IPA and it lists "ʂto" / "što".

Can anyone explain why this word has the "sh" sound although the letter used is "ч"?


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## HotIcyDonut

Russian orthography is as confusing as English one (i mean you have words like "headache" where "che" is read as russian "к" instead of "ч"), the entire language is like that. There's no reason. It's just like that. Reading is one thing and writing is another. That is why IPA is a must in acquiring bigger vocabulary.


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## poisongift

> Russian orthography is as confusing as English one



While there are some irregularities in Russian, it's not nearly as inconsistent as English.


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## Rosett

"Што" is a recommended norm based on the Moscow dialect and is enforced on radio and TV broadcasts in Russia.


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## Xavier61

europoly said:


> So I've always thought it followed normal(!) Russian pronunciation, like [t͡ɕto] ('chto' romanized), but lately I noticed that the songs I listened to, and even Google translate pronounces it as if it were "што" (shto).
> 
> I checked Wiktionary for the IPA and it lists "ʂto" / "što".
> 
> Can anyone explain why this word has the "sh" sound although the letter used is "ч"?


[t͡ɕto] говорят в Петере и  на севере. Pronunciation with ш is from Southen origin and is standart in Moskow speech.
In Ukrainian it is just "шо".


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## Xavier61

poisongift said:


> While there are some irregularities in Russian, it's not nearly as inconsistent as English.


It depends on how you define "not nearly as inconsistent as English". For me it was easier English than Russian: they have акание, икание итд, but no stress marks, and nouns can have between 12 and 15 different forms  with different stres patterns. And the verbs, ... Very difficult for a non native how to properly read a Russian text. As in English, I need to learn each word, but there are more words in Russian.


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## bibax

Xavier61 said:


> Very difficult for a non native how to properly read a Russian text.


I found the Russian orthography very consistent. We learnt only several irregularities: *что* [што], suffix -ого, пожалуйста, мягкий/лёгкий, ...

However we had stress marks (acute accents like in Spanish) in the texbooks and I often hatched the unstressed o's with pencil (e.g. the first two o's in положи́тельный) which increased speed of loud reading (we had reading tests).

But the biggest problem was (and is) to pronounce the Russian consonants and vowel ы properly. I think it is nearly impossible.


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## arn00b

It's not an orthographic irregularity at all.  The -t- has a devoicing effect on the ч-.  The same thing happens in дождь with ж being devoiced by дь to [doʂtʲ].

There are phonetic rules that govern the language.  For example "город" (city) is written with a д but is heard as [ˈɡorət].   The -д is not a vestige.  When someone says "in the city" it is городе [ˈɡorədʲe].  So the pronunciation of consonants depends on their position.   The alternate (1:1 spelling) is to have an absurd thing like "one ci*t*y, two ci*d*ies," (and that's not even going into vowels.)


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## rusita preciosa

arn00b said:


> It's not an orthographic irregularity at all.  The -t- has a devoicing effect on the ч-.


Actually, it is an irregularity. Compare with words like *чтение*,* почта *where that effect is not present.


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## Rosett

Xavier61 said:


> [t͡ɕto] говорят в Петербурге и на севере. Pronunciation with ш is of Southern origin and is standard in Moscow speech.
> In Ukrainian it is just "шо".


Moscow pronunciation (which is no longer standard, by the way) would  privilege "ш" over "ч" in most of the cases, but not universally. Please check it with
Московское произношение — Википедия


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## Hachi25

arn00b said:


> It's not an orthographic irregularity at all.  The -t- has a devoicing effect on the ч-.  The same thing happens in дождь with ж being devoiced by дь to [doʂtʲ].



As it was already stated, it is an irregularity, but your explanation is incorrect on another level: you cannot devoice the _ч_-sound [t͡ɕ], it is already voiceless.



Xavier61 said:


> In Ukrainian it is just "шо".



Although Ukrainian is not the topic here, I must correct this as well. What is _что _in Russian, in Ukrainian is _що_, and its pronunciation is [ʃtʃɔ].


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## Xavier61

Rosett said:


> Moscow pronunciation (which is no longer standard, by the way) would  privilege "ш" over "ч" in most of the cases, but not universally. Please check it with
> Московское произношение — Википедия


Checked: "В современной московской речи такое произношение сохранилось во определённом круге слов: [шт]о(что), [шт]обы (чтобы), коне[шн]о, яи[шн]ица, наро[шн]о, скуч[шн]о, пустя[шн]ый, скворе[шн]ик, деви[шн]ики т. д., а также в женских отчествах на -чна: Савви[шн]а, Ильини[шн]а и др."


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## Xavier61

Hachi25 said:


> Although Ukrainian is not the topic here, I must correct this as well. What is _что _in Russian, in Ukrainian is _що_, and its pronunciation is [ʃtʃɔ].


Thank you. I had the wrong impresion that some people that I hear say /shɔ/ and speak a Slavic language that sometimes sounds surprisingly similar to Rusian ( and sometimes disapointingly different), were speaking the Ukrainian language. Maybe my ear mistakes /shɔ:/ with /ʃtʃɔ/.
Anyway, my point is that pronouncing  шт for чт has a Southen origin and entered the Russian language through Church Slavonic (old Bulgarian).

And this could answer the OP question.



arn00b said:


> It's not an orthographic irregularity at all.  The -t- has a devoicing effect on the ч-.  The same thing happens in дождь with ж being devoiced by дь to [doʂtʲ].
> 
> There are phonetic rules that govern the language.  For example "город" (city) is written with a д but is heard as [ˈɡorət].   The -д is not a vestige.  When someone says "in the city" it is городе [ˈɡorədʲe].  So the pronunciation of consonants depends on their position.   The alternate (1:1 spelling) is to have an absurd thing like "one ci*t*y, two ci*d*iers," (and that's not even going into vowels.)


We have it marginally  in Russian: друг, друзья
Absurd as it might seem at first sight, that's the system used by other languages
Ukr. Н.нога́, Д.нозі́
Bielor. H. нага́, dative (давальны) назе́


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## Awwal12

Xavier61 said:


> [t͡ɕto] говорят в Петере и в севере.


Even in St.Petersburg this pronunciation is rare and seemingly comes from the orthography (which is largely based on Church Slavonic). The pronunciation [што] is absolutely dominating in modern Russian.


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## Eirwyn

Xavier61 said:


> Anyway, my point is that pronouncing  шт for чт has a Southen origin and entered the Russian language through Church Slavonic (old Bulgarian).


Church Slavonic had "чьто", just like Old Russian.


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## bibax

The Kiev Folios have "čьso" (transliterated, in Czech "co") and "pomocь" (instead of "pomoštь").

For that matter, some claim that the Kiev Folios are a 19th-century fake by Czech patriots.


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