# EN: I'm friends with X / I'm a good friend to X



## Hatchet

Un peu dans le même ordre d'idée singulier / pluriel, on a aussi:

I'm friends to her, ou
I'm friend to her

les deux se disent


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## HistofEng

Je n'ai jamais entendu de "_friends to X_"... c'est toujours "_friends with X_"

En plus, est-ce que tu es sûr(e) que la derniere phrase se dit? J'utilise toujours "_I'm friends with her_".


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## jann

I'm sorry, but neither of those sentences sound natural, Hatchet. 

Ces trois options indiquent simplement que vous êtes ami(e)s.
_I'm friends with her. 
She is my friend.
We are friends.

_En revanche, la phrase suivante exprime une idée bien différente.  C'est pour dire que cette amie est une vraie amie, qui vous a rendu un ou plusieurs services importants lors des moments difficiles au fil des années.
_She has been a good friend to me.

_This structure - "to be a (good) friend to someone" - almost never appears without the word "good"...  and since it would not be very modest to tout how good a friend you have been for someone else, you will almost never use it in the first person!


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## Hatchet

You're right, I'm afraid I've just mixed up everything here 

 big thanks for correcting me

 yet ... ten years ago I would have agreed 100 % but now .... I'm a little confused about all this since I read such phrases quite often ... although I now obviously realize that these may actually be grammatically incorrect anyways ..

 are you really sure  that "I'm friend with her" or "he's friend with her ....." cannot be said though? (friend singular)
 I read it quite often ! 

 and I also read "he's friend to them" quite often, maybe having a slightly different meaning : to be pro someone, close to his ideas ....

 thanks a lot !


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## pyan

Hatchet said:


> [...] are you really sure  that "I'm friend with her" or "he's friend with her ....." cannot be said though? (friend singular)
> I read it quite often !


"I'm friend with her" or "he's friend with her ..."  does not sound natural to me.  It must be "friend*s*".  

Other examples:  I am friends with him .  I am friend with him .  I am his friend .



Hatchet said:


> ...  and I also read "he's friend to them" quite often, maybe having a slightly different meaning : to be pro someone, close to his ideas ...


  This is easier to understand. "He's *a* friend to them",  "he's *a* friend to his ideas", etc.

(Very interesting question .)


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## Hatchet

then what should I think when I read this :



> If we now put all this together and add Rev. Wright,  Nation of Islam and all the other low life *that Obama is friend to* the picture is plain to see


h..p://goodtimepolitics.com/2008/04/11/small-town-americans-clings-to-guns-or-religion-or-antipathy-to-explain-their-frustrations/

and dozens of phrases alike can be read over the internet


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## catachresis_yo

This is an idiomatic expression that you wouldn't hear much in conversation. It doesn't mean he's literally their friends, it's more like he is sympathetic to them. It's also a bit of a cliché. =)


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## Stocky Jesus

That whole article is very badly written in my opinion.  It is rhetoric and the implication is that the Rev. Wright, Nation of Islam, 'other low life', and Barack Obama share ideals or that Barack Obama sypmathises with them.  If Obama thinks small-town Pennsylvanians “cling to” God, guns and hostility toward immigrants to cope with their bitterness over the economy, it's because he hates America or at least doesn't love it enough and he probably wants to let the Muslims take over.  If I were to describe a politician by saying, "He is a friend to big business," I am saying that he will look after the interests of 'big business' and perhaps implying that this may be at the expense of small businesses.  If one says, "He is a friend to terrorists," the implication would be that he is probably not doing enough to prevent terrorist attacks. 

You also often find "a friend to" used in obituaries when someone has died, e.g. "He was a friend to all and will be sorely missed." or "She was a friend to the poor."

As has already been said, one cannot say, "I'm/He's friend with her," or "I'm friend/s to her."


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## geostan

You may also say:

I am a friend of hers OR She is a friend of mine.


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## timboleicester

Hatchet said:


> are you really sure that "I'm friend with her" or "he's friend with her ....." cannot be said though? (friend singular)



I'm friend*ly* with her / he's friend*ly* with her. These certainly. They sound poetic the way you have them, almost shakespearean. Or indeed as has been mentioned "I am friend*s* with her"


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## catachresis_yo

> If we now put all this together and add Rev. Wright,  Nation of Islam and all the other low life *that Obama is friend to* the picture is plain to see



Just think of it of an expression with a different meaning from that of "to be friends with." You don't really hear it that often in English, except in the expression "like is friend to like" (or sometimes "similar is friend to similar"), which basically means that similar things or people with similar beliefs, morals, etc. are sympathetic to one another. Still, this one isn't used much either nowadays.

I hope this helps clear up your confusion a bit. =P


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## Hatchet

Thank you very much catachresis_yo

 As I understand it now, I will better never use "he's friend to her." and stick to "he's friends with her" and "he's a friend to her"
 ( although I read so often "Cuba is friend to the USSR"  "the UK is friend to the US " and so on, but no matter )

 Thank you all for clearing it up once for all


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## Fred_C

Hi,
I have a feeling, but perhaps I am totally wrong that 
"He is a friend to her" and "Cuba is friend to the USSR" are constructed in a totally different way :
It looks like in "Cuba is friend to the USSR", the complement "to the USSR" completes the word "friends", whereas in "He's a friend to her", "to her" is a complement to the whole clause.
Can an native confirm that ?

If my question is not clear, perhaps this should clarify : I have the feeling that the first sentence can be put in the other way round : "To her, he is a friend", whereas  for the second, "to the USSR, Cuba is friend" it is not possible.

 But again, perhaps I am totally wrong.


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## catachresis_yo

No Fred, you're not wrong, in fact I think you're on to something here. =)



> It looks like in "Cuba is friend to the USSR", the complement "to the USSR" completes the word "friends", whereas in "He's a friend to her", "to her" is a complement to the whole clause.


Yes, this looks right.



> To her, he is a friend


While technically correct, you still wouldn't say this. But yes, I see what you mean. You might say it like this, "She thinks of him as a friend."



> To the USSR, Cuba is friend


Right again, this doesn't make sense. I think with the whole "to be friend to" expression, the best way might be to think of it as a synonymous with "to be sympathetic to." You could even think of it as meaning "to be allies with," although not in any formal sense of the word.

One more thing:



> He's a friend to her


This is grammatically correct but sounds odd. I would stick to "he's a good friend to her," which sounds much better. You could also use "such a good friend," or "a good mate" (at least in GB and Australia, I don't think it gets much use in the US) if you wanted to. 

Phew. I hope that clears things up!


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## jann

This is an interesting thread! 

"Cuba is friend to the USSR" and "to the USSR, Cuba is friend" both sound 100% incorrect to my ear.  If I were editing a document and found these statements, I would assume they were typographical errors and I would change "friend" to "friends" or "friendly."

As for "To her, he's a friend," this sounds perfectly natural to me... though perhaps it is not something you would say very often.  "To/for her, he's _just_ a friend" would be more common - indicating that he's only a friend, not a love interest.

Hatchet, don't forget that "friends" vs. "friend" is a very easy typographical error, as is the omission of "a."  If you feel that you often read "he's friend to them" in online sources, then I would say that many of these instances are probably typos for "he's friends to them" or "he's a friend to them."


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## catachresis_yo

> "Cuba is friend to the USSR" and "to the USSR, Cuba is friend" both sound 100% incorrect to my ear. If I were editing a document and found these statements, I would assume they were typographical errors and I would change "friend" to "friends" or "friendly."


So "Cuba is friends to the USSR" sounds better...? Ugh. Although it may be a bit archaic and formal, "to be friend to" is definitely a legitimate expression. 

Here are a few examples (it seems I'm not allowed to post links yet, but you can find these easily enough with a search engine):

"Like is friend to like." - many dead white guys have pondered over this statement 

"... for we said it was impossible for bad to be friend to good." - Plato, Lysis

"'Wildlife warrior' no friend to our fauna" - headline in The Age

"You're a filth wizard, friend only to the rat and the pig." - Manny to Bernard, Black Books (best TV show ever!)

Despite all this, you seldom hear it come up in conversation, unless someone is being deliberately pompous or quoting Plato (which I guess is kinda the same thing). I'm surprised you haven't come across it, Jann... perhaps it is less prevalent in the US?


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## Ormston

I think catachresis is onto something here!

When used in a negative sense it seems to my anglophone ear to be perfectly natural in a way it doesn't at all in the positive.

After all, who could argue with the immortal words from Hound Dog:

You ain't never caught a rabbit and you ain't no friend of mine!!!


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