# Pronunciation - Mañana



## Reina140

Everything I've ever learned tells me that it would be pronounced like this:

Manyana (sorry, I don't know the proper phonetic symbols)

but my friends says it "Mai-yena"----I can't even hear the n at all

Is this the way it is commonly pronounced?


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## Outsider

"Manyana" is not a correct representation of the pronunciation, so I'm a bit at a loss on what you're saying...
The transcription in SAMPA is [maJana], where J stands for the palatal nasal. There is no [n]!

Having said this, I understand there _are_ some dialects, such as Mexican Spanish, in which the pronunciation is different. For MexSp, the transcription "Manyana" would actually be just about right.


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## Reina140

The transcription in SAMPA is [maJana], where J stands for the palatal nasal. There is no [n]!

the palatal nasal?

I thought ñ was supposed to make a ny sound like gn does in italian?


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## Reina140

I just found this on the net.

The ~ accent (called a *tilde*) in the Spanish letter *Ñ* indicates that the word used to be spelled with two Ns but now the tilde stands in for the second one.
It's very important to include the tilde when writing or typing, because N and Ñ are two different letters. There are words that mean different things depending on whether the word is spelled with an N or an Ñ. For example, una = one while uña = nail. Also, the Ñ section of the dictionary comes after the entire N section.
Ñ is pronounced like the *ni* in *onion*.

We say onion like unyun . . . so this agrees with what I have been taught . . anyone else have more input?
*Examples*
uña
baño
muñeca
pañuelo
these examples are how I would pronounce these words


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## Outsider

The sound of "gn" in Italian, "ñ" in (standard) Spanish, etc., is really not "ny". That's just a rather crude approximation, which will make your foreign accent stand out like a sore thumb. 
To hear the palatal nasal, and read an explanation of how to pronounce it, go to this site, choose "nasales" in the top menu, and then click on the seventh sound from the top down. That's "ñ".


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## Outsider

Reina140 said:


> Ñ is pronounced like the *ni* in *onion*.


"Like", yes, but not _exactly_ like.


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## Reina140

Outsider said:


> The sound of "gn" in Italian, "ñ" in (standard) Spanish, etc., is really not "ny". That's just a rather crude approximation, which will make your foreign accent stand out like a sore thumb.
> To hear the palatal nasal, and read an explanation of how to pronounce it, go to this site, choose "nasales" in the top menu, and then click on the seventh sound from the top down. That's "ñ".


 
It's the only way I knew how to write, I think I made it clear that I do not know the proper phonetic symbols, but after listening to the examples in my last post, I know that I was taught to speak the same way that they are speaking in the examples.


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## Reina140

Outsider said:


> "Like", yes, but not _exactly_ like.


 
If you read what I posted earlier, you will see I found this on the net, and these are not my words, and it says LIKE and not EXACTLY, so I'm not really sure what your intended point was in posting that.


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## Outsider

And I was telling you that you have misinterpreted the words you found on the Net, but evidently this is not what you wish to hear.
I shall bother you no more.


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## Reina140

Outsider said:


> And I was telling you that you have misinterpreted the words you found on the Net, but evidently this is not what you wish to hear.
> I shall bother you no more.


 

What?? I didn't misinterpret anything, I found that on the net AFTER my original post.


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## Ana_Fi

When writing computer programs, Spanish-speaker programmers usually change 'ñ' for 'ny' or 'ni', because sometimes changing it for 'n' may cause unappropriate words. I tend to change it for 'n' always.
Example:
function ReadYear (string mmddyyyy)
changes into
function LeerAño (string ddmmaaaa)
But 'ñ' cannot (or is not usually) written when programming, so:
function LeerAnyo (...)
function LeerAnio (...)
function LeerAno (...) <- yes, here there is another meaning.

Greetings.


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## Soy Yo

While "ny" is not an accepted phonetic "rendering" of the sound of ñ, English-speaking beginners are taught that the sound of ñ is like the "ni" in "onion" and the "ny" in "canyon". If it is not identical, it is a very close approximation. Reina was not trying to say that the ñ of "mañana" is pronounced like the "ny" in "many" or "any." (I, at least, understood her perfectly.)  This doesn't answer the question about how her friends pronounce "mañana."


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## Outsider

Soy Yo said:


> Reina was not trying to say that the ñ of "mañana" is pronounced like the "ny" in "many" or "any."


Did anyone say she was? I sure didn't. 
She did, however, insist that the "ny" of "onion", etc. was the correct pronunciation, which is false, as I have explained.



Soy Yo said:


> This doesn't answer the question about how her friends pronounce "mañana."


Perhaps her question needs to be better explained.


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## Soy Yo

> Did anyone say she was? I sure didn't.


 
Even though you didn't say so, I thought that it was very likely you were thinking it. Sorry.

Here is where Reina is coming from.


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## Outsider

You can find lots of sites claiming they'll teach you a foreign language on the net. As all things you get for free, most of them give just light sketches and quick fixes, rather than accurate descriptions.


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## Reina140

Soy Yo said:


> While "ny" is not an accepted phonetic "rendering" of the sound of ñ, English-speaking beginners are taught that the sound of ñ is like the "ni" in "onion" and the "ny" in "canyon". If it is not identical, it is a very close approximation. Reina was not trying to say that the ñ of "mañana" is pronounced like the "ny" in "many" or "any." (I, at least, understood her perfectly.) This doesn't answer the question about how her friends pronounce "mañana."


 
Thank you Soy Yo . . . outsider is taking the ny & the ni too literal . . . I spoke to a NATIVE spanish speaker last night, who confirmed my pronunciation as being correct.  And as far as your comment about "things you get off the net for free" that was just examples we found on the net . . . different with the same information.  I studied spanish in high school and that is how I was taught.  My spanish teacher lived in Spain for some time so I trust that he was qualified to tell me whether or not I was pronouncing it right.  HOWEVER, this still doesn't explain why my friend pronounces the word COMPLETELY different.  
My original question hasn't been touched.  Maybe a native from Central or South America could touch on this subject for me please?


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## Soy Yo

Outsider said:


> You can find lots of sites claiming they'll teach you a foreign language on the net. As all things you get for free, most of them give just light sketches and quick fixes, rather than accurate descriptions.


 
It could also be that your pronunciation of "ni" in onion and "ny" in canyon is different from mine and Reina's.  At any rate, beginners are usually looking for an approximation in their native language...and this analogy is helpful.  These speakers develop further accuracy through practice and contact with native speakers.


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## Reina140

Outsider said:


> Did anyone say she was? I sure didn't.
> She did, however, insist that the "ny" of "onion", etc. was the correct pronunciation, which is false, as I have explained.
> 
> Perhaps her question needs to be better explained.


 

Correction:  I have insisted NOTHING


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## Ana_Fi

Reina140 said:


> My original question hasn't been touched.  Maybe a native from Central or South America could touch on this subject for me please?





			
				Reina140 said:
			
		

> but my friends says it "Mai-yena"----I can't even hear the n at all



Sorry, I'm from Spain. So I just can tell you that here something like "Mai-yena" would not be understood.


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## Reina140

Ana_Fi said:


> Sorry, I'm from Spain. So I just can tell you that here something like "Mai-yena" would not be understood.


 
Yes, I know.  I was taught to say it the way it is said in Spain, and this is why I'm confused as to whether this is just a personal thing (personal mispronunciation) or if it is a central/south american thing.


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## Jellby

Well... the "ñ" could certeainly be softened so much as to sould like a "y", but that's a consequence of the relaxed pronunciation, I don't think you should *try* to make it like that. Once you have some practice and feel confident, it may come naturally.


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## gabrielv

I'm native from Chile and i guess the ny of onyon it's the better aproximation to th ñ for an american, however it's not the exact sound and I agree that only listening you could get the right sound. 
Another comment I think it would be useful: say th "ñ" as th "ny" of onyon very quickly, and it won't be much different from the right pronunciation.

Saludos desde Chile


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## gabrielv

Another suggestion: It's just like the italian food "Gnocchi", and any gn word on italian.


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## Reina140

Once again . . . we are going off subject.  I am confident with the way I say it and I'm not asking for advice.

My question is in my first post . . . . please refer to that!!!


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## María Madrid

We're trying to be helpful but it's hard for us to understand how your friends pronounce mañana, since we can't hear it and you're trying to explain a sound which is not natural for you using English phonetics and comparisons to do so (not the clearest way to do it for Spanish speakers). 

Let me tell you something, an Australian friend (who speaks no Spanish at all) sent me the phonetic transcription of a song he wanted me to translate for him. I was completely unable to understand many of the words he "heard" and transcribed phonetically. I'm afraid we're experiencing similar difficulties here. 

Keep in mind that not being a native Spanish speaker your ear is not "trained" to detect some sounds. However, does it sound like this? (Click on the speaker icon)
http://www.wordreference.com/es/en/translation.asp?spen=mañana

Explore other words with ñ in the dictionary, next to different vowels. Can you hear any difference?. Saludos,


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## Reina140

No, that's how I say it, but not so robotically sounding (probably because it's a recording)

Mai (my) llena (yena)
Maillena .  . .. that's how it sounds when she says it.


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## gabrielv

OK Reina: Your friends say "mañana" very bad.
 The "ñ" sounds similar to the "n", but with your tongue a little more behind and more stucked on your palate.


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## María Madrid

Reina140 said:


> No, that's how I say it, but not so robotically sounding (probably because it's a recording)
> 
> Mai (my) llena (yena)
> Maillena . . .. that's how it sounds when she says it.


 
Well, Maillena or my yena doesn't sound the least close to mañana. To me may in Spanish sound like "my" (possesive) in English. 

What you hear and transcribe as maillena makes no sense to me because I don't know what you're referring to. As it happened with my friend's transcription. Is that double ll pronounced as in English or as in Spanish? None of those sounds has anything to do with ñ. Ai pronounced as in main in English or as in Cairo in Spanish? It's quite difficult to understand your phonetical transcriptions because we don't know which sounds you're referring to.

All I can say is that a is a in Spanish, not ai or e, even if there might be milder local pronounciations, and ñ like gn in gnocchi (Italian) or cognac (French). sorry, I can't help you more! Saludos,


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## Reina140

I was trying to write it as it would sound in the spanish alphabet.

But even still María, eres de España, no?   Es ok . . . ¡me rindo!  ¡No es tan importa pero gracias por todos tus repuestas!


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## caballosgirl

it's a palatal, nasal, consonant.  You stick the dorsal(?)/middle part of your tongue to the palate and take it off in a downward fashion. I don't think there are english words that sound at all similar to it. nya could be a combination that might work.

saludos


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## Reina140

caballosgirl said:


> it's a palatal, nasal, consonant. You stick the dorsal(?)/middle part of your tongue to the palate and take it off in a downward fashion. I don't think there are english words that sound at all similar to it. nya could be a combination that might work.
> 
> saludos


 
I know how to say.  Are you reading all of the posts?  I am not asking how to say it.


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