# Pronunciation: 一场空



## yuechu

Hello,

I came across the expression 一场空 while watching a TV show, and depending on the dictionary, I have seen 场 assigned both the pronunciations chang2 and chang3 for the middle character. Which one is the correct pronunciation in this expression? Are both of them correct?

Nciku, for example, gives chang3 as the pronunciation beside the word, yet in its entry says it should not be pronounced chang3. Is chang2 therefore more correct?
http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detail/一场空/49650?toolbar=1

Thank you in advance! 谢谢


----------



## kort oo!s

I'm positive that it's chang3.


----------



## yuechu

Thanks for your answer, kort oo!s. I still do find it strange that in the Nciku dictionary, it says : "*2.* 									 									 		"场"这里不读ｃｈǎｎɡ。".

Perhaps it is a less common pronunciation? (to not pronounce it chang3?)


----------



## kort oo!s

Sorry personal experience tells me there's only chang3, but I just looked it up in a dictionary and there's chang2. (http://xh.5156edu.com/html3/9426.html)
And, it's correct to pronounce chang2 in the phrase 一场雨。
It's a tricky question even for the native speaks I guess, since it does not make obvious difference when you speak it at normal dialogue speed. 
I thought most two consecutive 3 tone will sound like as if they were 2nd tone and 3rd tone. eg. 你好，where 你 sounds more like ni2.


----------



## xiaolijie

场 in 一场空 should be *chang2*.
"场"这里不读ｃｈǎｎɡ。This should be correct, it should be read *chang2 *(yìchángkōng), but the annotation in this entry has also mixed up chang2 for chang3 on a few ocasions, and that confuses us.

By the way, there are *two different but confusingly similar* measurewords: *chang2 and chang3*. The one in 一场雨 is *chang2*, and this has nothing to do with (the influence of) the 3rd tone of 雨. The same *chang2* is in 一场大病.

Here are some examples with *chang3*
一场足球赛 
一场戏 
一场电影

And here are some other with *chang2*:
一场大雨 
一场战斗
（used with verbs）
大干一场 
大哭了一场
白高兴了一场


----------



## verastar

Hi, as a native Chinese, I have to say the 3rd tone is the only correct pronunciation. 
However, if a third tone is followed by another 3rd tone, such as 一场雨，then the first 3rd tone will change into the second. In this case, 一场雨 should be pronounces as ‘yi(4) chang(2) yu(3)’
More examples:
敏感
警醒
紫水壶
the first character in all of the three words should be the 3rd tone, but when you say it, change it to 2nd.
Hope you understand my explanation...


----------



## verastar

BTW, I am afraid what Xiaolijie said is not true.
一场空should be pronounced in 3rd tone, and all the "场" given in Xiaolijie's examples should be pronounced as 'chang(3rd)' except for '一场雨'


----------



## kort oo!s

verastar said:


> BTW, I am afraid what Xiaolijie said is not true.
> 一场空should be pronounced in 3rd tone, and all the "场" given in Xiaolijie's examples should be pronounced as 'chang(3rd)' except for '一场雨'



You go look it up in some Chinese dictionary and you'll know you're wrong. It's chang2 here! Luckily you don't have to take some HSK exams, unlike many who learns Chinese.


----------



## xiaolijie

kort oo!s said:


> You go look it up in some Chinese dictionary and you'll know you're wrong. It's chang2 here! Luckily you don't have to take some HSK exams, unlike many who learns Chinese.


That's right. You can also hear from the link given in the opening post how "一场空" is actually pronounced (by clicking on the speaker sign "Listen" and you'll here not one but two speakers giving you the correct pronunciation): 
http://www.nciku.com/search/zh/detail/%E4%B8%80%E5%9C%BA%E7%A9%BA/49650?toolbar=1


----------



## verastar

I was wrong. Sorry if I confused you but luckily you are not


----------



## xiaolijie

verastar said:


> I was wrong. Sorry if I confused you but luckily you are not


It's ok, no problems! You're not alone


----------



## yuechu

Thank you all for your answers before! (which was already a year ago)

I am curious to know whether this is a character which, in certain situations, is pronounced "chang2" according to the dictionary but in common usage is always pronounced "chang3"? (kind of like "给予" gei3yu3, ji3yu3... ; yuan vs "yuen" (more common), etc) I notice that dictionary pronunciations in Chinese aren't always how people pronounce it in real life (just like in all languages). Would most people always say "chang3" in all situations?


----------



## SuperXW

Despite the dictionaries, as a native speaker, I never thought of pronouncing chang2 instead of chang3...
chang3 should be the most natural way.
Except when it's followed by a 3rd tone character, the pronunciation would change to chang2. But this change is based on the universal 2nd tone-3rd tone rule, not for chang3 itself.


----------



## midismilex

SuperXW，場是破音字、多音字，字典怎麼説，連北京人都沒法ㄦ去推翻，這是共識。


----------



## midismilex

baosheng said:


> Would most people always say "chang3" in all situations?



I'm afraid yes (but we know it's wrong) except the teachers who teaches Chinese in primary schools and junior high schools, etc.


----------



## Anna zhou

verastar said:


> Hi, as a native Chinese, I have to say the 3rd tone is the only correct pronunciation.
> However, if a third tone is followed by another 3rd tone, such as 一场雨，then the first 3rd tone will change into the second. In this case, 一场雨 should be pronounces as ‘yi(4) chang(2) yu(3)’
> More examples:
> 敏感
> 警醒
> 紫水壶
> the first character in all of the three words should be the 3rd tone, but when you say it, change it to 2nd.
> Hope you understand my explanation...



I totally agree with you! Thanks for clarifying this for us.


----------



## yuechu

Thank you all for your input!

Just to confirm: would it be most natural/common (although possibly incorrect) for most native speakers of Mandarin (an average educated native speaker, for example.. ) to pronounce it "chang3" in the following examples that xiaolijie gave above as well? :
一场大雨 
一场战斗
（used with verbs）
大干一场 
大哭了一场
白高兴了一场
?

Would this be similar to, say, the "whom" in English? (rarely used by most speakers in situations where it has traditionally been mandatory)?
Thanks!


----------



## xiaolijie

Good question, baosheng! and I'm interested in the replies to your question.
(But from experience, I expect the replies to vary from one person to another )


----------



## yuechu

I was recently listening to the song "一l游戏一场梦" (yi4chang3you2xi4; yi4 *?* meng4) by 王杰. For the purposes of an HSK test (because I don't think I'd need to worry about it otherwise), would 一场梦 be pronounced yi4chang2 or yi4chang3?
Perapera dictionary says chang2 = classifier for events or happenings
and chang3 = classifier for sports and recreational events
Would a dream therefore be an event? (I ask because the definitions above may not include all situations where it is used/be completely accurate)


----------



## Skatinginbc

According to Taiwan 教育部's dictionary, 场 should be pronounced chang2 when  it serves as a measure word of a noun (梦, 游戏, whatever noun).  In  reality, it is a different picture.  I've never heard anyone say chang2  in Taiwan.  It's always chang3.  What will I do in a test?  Well, if I  were a participant of 國語文競賽 (Mandarin Language Contest)‎,  I would read it as chang2 just to prove my prescriptive knowledge.  If I  were a participant of an HSK test, I would simply flip a coin to guess  whether the test designers prefer a prescriptive answer or a descriptive  one.  I think I would not worry too much about it.  I have trust in  those test designers and believe this kind of questions would not show  up in an HSK test (Or am I too naive to even trust them?).    


baosheng said:


> Just to confirm: would it be most natural/common (although possibly incorrect) for most native speakers of Mandarin (an average educated native speaker, for example.. ) to pronounce it "chang3" in the following examples...一场大雨, 一场战斗, 大干一场, 大哭了一场, 白高兴了一场


I pronounce chang3 for all of the above examples in real life although I know it is prescribed as chang2 by the authority.


----------



## YangMuye

It's definitely always chang3. I think the CCTV announcers will also pronounce this way.

I think it would be interesting to build a website, which allows native speakers from different regions and with different backgrounds to vote for the "real" pronunciation of every word.
If I have time, I will try it this year.


----------



## Skatinginbc

YangMuye said:


> If I have time, I will try it this year.


 Don't forget to let us know once it is built.


----------



## yuechu

Skatinginbc said:


> According to Taiwan 教育部's dictionary, 场 should be pronounced chang2 when  it serves as a measure word of a noun (梦, 游戏, whatever noun).


 -- oh wow, it looks like there are many sets of "rules" then depending on the dictionary/authority



			
				YangMuye said:
			
		

> I think it would be interesting to build a website, which allows native  speakers from different regions and with different backgrounds to vote  for the "real" pronunciation of every word.


There is a really good one actually! (which has helped me with the odd word in my native tongue even, especially ones with many pronunciations) It's called "Forvo" although it does not yet have many recordings for Chinese yet...

Thanks again, everyone, for your help!


----------



## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> According to Taiwan 教育部's dictionary, 场 should be pronounced chang2 when  it serves as a measure word of a noun (梦, 游戏, whatever noun).


No wonder the old pop song goes: 那只是一場chang2遊戲一場chang2夢~ Haha!


----------



## Skatinginbc

SuperXW said:


> No wonder the old pop song goes: 那只是一場chang2遊戲一場chang2夢~ Haha!


我还以为歌词是: "一腸油兮, 一腸饛".  我大概是"一腸空", 该到厨房走走了.


----------



## SuperXW

Skatinginbc said:


> 我还以为歌词是: "一腸油兮, 一腸饛".  我大概是"一腸空", 该到厨房走走了.


...You are too "classic".


----------

