# No Spanish in American schools?



## Carlos1980

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10372148/page/1


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## nycphotography

I'll add the headline so people can guess what they are being directed to:

*Spanish at school translates to suspension
*Controversy caused by Kansas City incident reflects national debate


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## Everness

This is an interesting topic. 

Some of my liberal friends frown upon bilingual education. They actually voted against it and they suceeded in doing away with it in my state.

You can even find Latinos supporting the English Only agenda. Check out this website.

http://www.us-english.org/inc/


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## BasedowLives

yeah i definately don't understand this.  

but i think english should definately be encouraged as a goal for immigrants if they plan on staying here for any extended period of time and working. though thats kind of a different issue than the article presents...

but suspending kids for speaking it in school is just crazy....in my old high school there would've been all kinds of kids being suspended. kids from bosnia, kosovo, mexico, russia, hundreds of vietnamese students, etc...

this is silly


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## timpeac

Carlos1980 said:
			
		

> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10372148/page/1


 
Carlos - what on earth is the point of starting a thread in a forum called cultural _discussions_ with such a determined intention of not commenting that you call the thread "no comment"?? (and true to your word make none).

Since this is an interesting topic and others have picked up the fact that the clue to the aim of the forum is in its name and discussed I'll just change the title so that others can more easily understand what the thread is about. 

I would encourage you to make your own feelings known on the issue, which are presumably quite strong since you started the thread. I'm guessing that you felt it necessary to underline how well certain American cities are encouraging integration by providing total immersion in English at school for those who don't benefit from this at home. Do you think this is a policy that would help integration in other countries too?


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## Moogey

I think that *everybody* who comes to America from any non English-speaking country should learn English.

I believe I read a thread awhile back that we're forced to learn Spanish because those from Spanish-speaking countries can't readily learn English. Well I don't think that's right.

I love languages. I have a passion for all of them. But I don't think it's right for people to enter any country and force the people of the country to change their ways to accomodate them. If you go to another country, you should change _your_ ways to be accomodated!

Although my argument is partially invalidated due to the fact that America doesn't have an official language, yet strengthened because most people in it and pretty much all who run it speak English.

Being more direct to the article posted above, many many kids speak Spanish in my school and they're ok with it. There are a few Portugues-speaking people as well.

-M


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## GenJen54

moogey said:
			
		

> many many kids speak Spanish in my school and they're ok with it.


Of course, the students are okay with speaking Spanish. But, what about the administration? Are there any restrictions about students speaking spanish in the hallway, or in the classroom? It seems your school is fairly inclusive and does not have any hard and fast rules regarding language usage.

Staying ON TOPIC with regard to this particular article, I think the bigger issue is that in this case _rules were not broken._The school had no policy regarding the use of a non-English language in the hall and therefore the principal had no right to suspend this particular student. Had he violated _written policy_, as the student's own father brought up, that may have been another matter altogether. I find it interesting that no mention was made of any corrective action taken against the other student, who started the conversation. In my book, saying "no problema" is only one letter away from "no problem," and is itself "pas de problème."

_ Carlos_, it's difficult to ascertain your point since you didn't exactly make one. Are you trying to say this was discrimination? Racism? What issue exactly are you trying to bring to the table?

The article made no mention of the student's grades, but he was, both from how the reporter described him and the way he was quoted in the article, of obvious native fluency in English. His father is also seemingly well-assimilated. Had there been a written policy and the boy still suspended, would this have been merited? 

Are you trying to comment on this particular issue, or on the broader issue of his rights to speak whatever language he wishes?

For more discussion on "speaking Spanish in the USA," perhaps you all might wish to take a look at this thread.  I  believe this is the one to which Moogey was referring.


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## Moogey

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> Of course, the students are okay with speaking Spanish. But, what about the administration? Are there any restrictions about students speaking spanish in the hallway, or in the classroom? It seems your school is fairly inclusive and does not have any hard and fast rules regarding language usage.


Oh yes, by "they" I meant the administration  In fact, it's actually quite interesting, one kid seems to speak very very little English and only Portugues. When a school administrator tries to speak to him he has to have another Portugues-speaking individual translate for him. That shocks me though because to the best of my knowledge all courses in my school are only taught in English, so I wonder how he learns.

-M


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## GenJen54

moogey said:
			
		

> In fact, it's actually quite interesting, one kid seems to speak very very little English and only Portugues. When a school administrator tries to speak to him he has to have another Portugues-speaking individual translate for him. That shocks me though because to the best of my knowledge all courses in my school are only taught in English, so I wonder how he learns.



In that case, I would think the administration would have the right to tell him he has to speak English.  He is doing himself a disservice by not learning the language of the country in which he is living.  But, that is a topic for THIS thread.


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## Everness

Moogey said:
			
		

> But I don't think it's right for people to enter any country and force the people of the country to change their ways to accomodate them. If you go to another country, you should change _your_ ways to be accomodated!-M



Immigrants aren't forcing US authorities to do anything! Immigration and acculturation are processes. They don't happen overnight. It's the host country --in this case the US-- that in response to this reality should come up with a transitional plan. Bilingual education  --with clear goals and a timeline-- can help people successfully deal with this huge transition. 

However, once an immigrant becomes proficient in English, he/she should be encouraged to keep the culture and language of his/her country of origin. They shouldn't commit cultural suicide buying into the myth of the melting pot. The US is a multicultural and multilingual country. Monoculturalism and monolinguism shouldn't be the goals. This is my beef with the English Only initiative. For some reason, many politicians --as well as many Americans-- believe that if we don't make people speak English (hopefully without an accent), "US culture" as we know it (that is, Eurocentric, white, middle class values) is going down the drain.


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## Moogey

Everness said:
			
		

> Immigrants aren't forcing US authorities to do anything! Immigration and acculturation are processes. They don't happen overnight. It's the host country --in this case the US-- that in response to this reality should come up with a transitional plan. Bilingual education --with clear goals and a timeline-- can help people successfully deal with this huge transition.
> 
> However, once an immigrant becomes proficient in English, he/she should be encouraged to keep the culture and language of his/her country of origin. They shouldn't commit cultural suicide buying into the myth of the melting pot. The US is a multicultural and multilingual country. Monoculturalism and monolinguism shouldn't be the goals. This is my beef with the English Only initiative. For some reason, many politicians --as well as many Americans-- believe that if we don't make people speak English (hopefully without an accent), "US culture" as we know it (that is, Eurocentric, white, middle class values) is going down the drain.


 
Well this is getting a bit off-topic and it's partly due to my original post. I actually agree with you and hope this wasn't a rebuttal to my post because I was trying to say the same thing more or less 

I will also say that while the US s_hould_ be (more) accomodating of immigrants, it's not really right now in areas of the US. It's wrong, but it's true (that it happens).

-M


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## Everness

Moogey said:
			
		

> Well this is getting a bit off-topic and it's partly due to my original post. I actually agree with you and hope this wasn't a rebuttal to my post because I was trying to say the same thing more or less
> 
> I will also say that while the US s_hould_ be (more) accomodating of immigrants, it's not really right now in areas of the US. It's wrong, but it's true (that it happens).
> 
> -M



I don't think my post or your answer are off topic. Read the following...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10398137/from/RL.1/

_Rubio's father is a Mexican immigrant who has lived in the U-S for 25 years._ 

We are talking about a second-generation Mexican-American kid. If his father wanted him to become bicultural, I'm sure he instilled in him the importance of speaking Spanish. 

We live in America and we have the right to speak the language we want wherever and whenever we want. (However, other people aren't under the obligation of understanding us. It's our problem, not theirs.) 

What this school teacher did was not just unlawful --he discriminated against the student-- but culturally insensitive. And he or she is a teacher!


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## gorbatzjov

I don't know if this has anything with this to do, but I went to a Dutch speaking school in Brussels. Most Belgian people will agree that Flemish education in Belgium is generally better than French education in Belgium. (there are several reasons for this). Therefor, my school had a lot of French speaking students. However, the school prohibited them to speak French at school. The idea behind this was: you are at a Dutch speaking school, so speak Dutch. I totally agree with them.


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## Outsider

Everness said:
			
		

> This is my beef with the English Only initiative. For some reason, many politicians --as well as many Americans-- believe that if we don't make people speak English (hopefully without an accent), "US culture" as we know it (that is, Eurocentric, white, middle class values) is going down the drain.


Chalk it up to the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis.


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## belén

gorbatzjov said:
			
		

> I don't know if this has anything with this to do, but I went to a Dutch speaking school in Brussels. Most Belgian people will agree that Flemish education in Belgium is generally better than French education in Belgium. (there are several reasons for this). Therefor, my school had a lot of French speaking students. However, the school prohibited them to speak French at school. The idea behind this was: you are at a Dutch speaking school, so speak Dutch. I totally agree with them.



I think that's different. I went to a British school in Spain, of course, most of us were Spanish and our natural tendency was to speak Spanish among us and we wouldn't learn English, so the teachers didn't allow us to speak Spanish in school. But Spanish wasn't in danger for us, it was our mother tongue, we lived in Spain, so they did it so that we would take more advantadge of the school hours and learn as much English as possible.


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## Outsider

Also (according to the article linked to by Everness):



> Superintendent of Schools Bobby Allen says he reversed the suspension as soon as he learned about it. *The district says there are no rules against speaking Spanish in school.*


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## Everness

_''What?? Teach the teachers Spanish? Using MY tax money? What's next, after our American teachers will be fluent in Spanish . . . will you force Spanish classes on our children as well?? . . . This is America, and in America we speak ENGLISH!!!"_

http://www.boston.com/news/educatio.../waltham_confronts_a_language_barrier?mode=PF

This shows how prickly and volatile this issue has become in the US. 

However, I think that this initiative of a voluntary conversational Spanish class that the district is offering to its elementary teachers makes too much sense taking into account, for instance, that more than 40 percent of students of this particular elementary school are Latino.


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## tmoore

Habiendo vivido en diferentes paises del Sureste de Asia, en ninguno de ellos se enseñaba en ingles ,en las escuelas nacionales.
En Taiwan existia solamente  International American School en Taipei
En Malasia lo mismo  
En Hong Kong,habian escuelas inglesas
En Manila the International American school 

Viviendo en Hsin Chu (Taiwan) una ciudad industrial donde el ingles raramente se oia, mi hija fue a escuela china, donde se enseñeba escuetamente en mandarin.

En Johor Bahru (sur de Malasia ) mi hija cruzaba la frontera con Singapur CADA DIA para atender la International American School. Su pasaporte se asemejaba mas a un diccionario que a un pasaporte por su grosor.

Por cierto estoy completamente de auerdo con Everness


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## Indio Campero

BasedowLives said:
			
		

> yeah i definately don't understand this.
> 
> but i think english should definately be encouraged as a goal for immigrants if they plan on staying here for any extended period of time and working. though thats kind of a different issue than the article presents...
> 
> but suspending kids for speaking it in school is just crazy....in my old high school there would've been all kinds of kids being suspended. kids from bosnia, kosovo, mexico, russia, hundreds of vietnamese students, etc...
> 
> this is silly


 

Definately i agree with you. I am a spanish native speaker and believe that this issue that came to occur in your country is nothing but just another BIG form of racism and discrimination  I think most americans are afraid of us, the "hispanics" latinos or however they wanna call us...  The roots of this whole issues can be found in this:   fear of the different, of the unknown. Deep inside, the english speaking world knows that latins have a great inner power that is just waiting to be fully developed when  the time comes and we, the latins, can reach to gather all together.  

(i am sorry if my english has mistakes. .Fell free to correct me at any time)  greetings
------------------------
Definitivamente estoy de acuerdo con vos. SOy un hispanohablante nativo y estoy seguro de que este asunto que acaba de ocurrir en tu pais no es mas que otra GRAN forma de racismo y discriminacion. Pienso que la mayoria de los Americanos nos tienen miedo,a nosotros los "hispanicos", latinos o como sea que quieran llamarnos. Las causas  de todos estos asuntos se pueden encontrar  en lo siguiente: miedo a lo diferente, a lo desconocido. Muy adentro suyo, el mundo anglo-hablante sabe que los latinos tenemos un gran poder latente que solo esta esperando a desarrollarse totalmente cuando llegue el tiempo en que nosotros, los latinos, nos  unamos totalmente.

Lo siento si mi ingles tiene errores. Sean libres de corregirme en cualquier momento. Saludos


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## Moogey

Indio Campero said:
			
		

> Definately i agree with you. I am a spanish native speaker and believe that this issue that came to occur in your country is nothing but just another BIG form of racism and discrimination I think most americans are afraid of us, the "hispanics" latinos or however they wanna call us... The roots of this whole issues can be found in this: fear of the different, of the unknown. Deep inside, the english speaking world knows that latins have a great inner power that is just waiting to be fully developed when the time comes and we, the latins, can reach to gather all together.


 
I think it's just (or mostly) because most people want English to be the primary language of America. Because America has no official language, it's easy for that to happen. But consider if so many Americans went to your country and English was taught in your schools and went all over the country (or any language for that matter). Wouldn't you mind that a little?

-M


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## siljam

That will happen, sooner or later. After all, America is for the (north) americans.


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## Indio Campero

siljam said:
			
		

> That will happen, sooner or later. After all, America is for the (north) americans.


 

whatever you say monguito! "America" has been called like that because of AMERICO VESPUCIO, who was actually SPANISH!!!
And "America" is a spanish word as well!!   so you see.... you make mel augh.... you are so funny hahahaha


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## cuchuflete

Indio Campero said:
			
		

> whatever you say monguito! "America" has been calledlike that because of AMERICO VESPUCIO, who was actually SPANISH!!!


  ...who was actually Spanish in his spare time, when he wasn't busy being Italian


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