# De gustibus...



## Frank06

Hi,

'De gustibus non (est) disputandum' translates rather literally as "In matters of taste there is no dispute".

I'd like to expand this phrase with 'But in matters of bad taste, there is', but I have no idea how to render the contrast in Latin.

My guess so far:
De gustibus non est disputandum. Sed (?) de gustibus malis(?) est.


Many thanks in advance.

Frank


PS: I am aware of the variant _De gustibus et coloribus non est disputandum._ But I don't need the colours here.


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## Cagey

I think you are going to need to revise this a little.  As your saying is now worded, you are contrasting "tastes (inclusively)" with "bad tastes".  It's strange in Latin.  I suggest:There is no dispute about good taste, but about bad [taste].
_
De gustibus elegantibus non est disputendum, sed de malis._(_elegans _means _refined_ and is used where we would say "good taste": I avoided _bonis_ = _good,_ because its meanings are not suitable.)​ORThere is no dispute about every taste, but about bad ones [alone].

_De omne gustu non est disputendum, sed de malis [solis]. _​


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## Fred_C

Frank06 said:


> Hi,
> 
> 'De gustibus non (est) disputandum' translates rather literally as "In matters of taste there is no dispute".


 
Hi,
Perhaps it is a common translation, but it is a wrong one.
"disputare" does not mean "to dispute", it means "to discuss".


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## Frank06

Hi,

Thanks for the reactions so far.


Cagey said:


> I think you are going to need to revise this a little.  As your saying is now worded, you are contrasting "tastes (inclusively)" with "bad tastes".  It's strange in Latin.


It's probably also a bit weird in English. It sure is in my native tongue . But the point is indeed to contrast the incredible cliché of "tastes cannot be _discussed_' (thanks Fred_C) with the idea that they _can be discussed_, which kind of undermines the cliché.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## FedoCiuff

Cagey said:


> I think you are going to need to revise this a little.  As your saying is now worded, you are contrasting "tastes (inclusively)" with "bad tastes".  It's strange in Latin.  I suggest:There is no dispute about good taste, but about bad [taste].
> _
> De gustibus elegantibus non est disput*e*ndum, sed de malis._(_elegans _means _refined_ and is used where we would say "good taste": I avoided _bonis_ = _good,_ because its meanings are not suitable.)​ORThere is no dispute about every taste, but about bad ones [alone].
> 
> _De omne gustu non est disput*e*ndum, sed de malis [solis]. _​


It's _disput*a*ndum_ (Disputo, -as, -avi, -atum, -are).
Bye


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## brian

Usually word order in Latin "doesn't matter" (as they say), but quite often it is very important, and in this case I fear it might be...

I like Cagey's idea to use _non...sed_, but I think the position of _non_ is important here. The reason is that the original Latin uses the passive periphrastic construction, so the literal meaning is _About tastes, it is not to be discussed = Matters of taste are not to be discussed = Matters of taste should not be discussed._ Something along those lines.

So to me (but maybe it's just me) _De gustibus non est disputandum, sed de malis_ feels incomplete, as if it means _Matters of taste are not to be discussed, but matters of bad taste_ (...what?).

Again, it's just a feeling, but perhaps _Non de gustibus (elegantibus)...sed de (gustibus) malis_ would sound better. Although then you'd lose the familiar ring of _De gustibus non..._


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## Outsider

Frank06 said:


> It's probably also a bit weird in English. It sure is in my native tongue . But the point is indeed to contrast the incredible cliché of "tastes cannot be _discussed_' (thanks Fred_C) with the idea that they _can be discussed_, which kind of undermines the cliché.


Indeed.

I think the point of the original Latin saying (which also exists in many other languages) is that in subjective matters there can be no universal truths. 

One might retort that that is precisely why subjective matters can and should be _discussed_. If you can't argue with facts, you certainly can argue with opinions.

With this in mind, how about starting from the Latin equivalent of "You can't argue with facts", and deriving from it an equivalent for "You can always argue with tastes/ in matters of taste"?

P.S. Or the equivalent of "Taste/tastes are always subject to debate / up for discussion".


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## relativamente

Hi, 

I do not know any good translation of this phrase, so I attempted to give the same idea using different words

De rebus quae gratiores sint vel molestiores nihil est disputandum, sed disputare potest de sententiis  res squalidas  esse gratas affirmantibus

One should not discuss about which things are more pleasant or unpleasant, but one can discuss about opinions stating that disgusting thigs are agreable.


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## FedoCiuff

relativamente said:


> Hi,
> 
> I do not know any good translation of this phrase, so I attempted to give the same idea using different words
> 
> De rebus quae gratiores sint vel molestiores nihil est disputandum, sed disputare potest de sententiis  res squalidas  esse gratas affirmantibus
> 
> One should not discuss about which things are more pleasant or unpleasant, but one can discuss about opinions stating that disgusting thigs are agreable.


I find this translation too difficult. Latin version is so significant because of its immediacy.

My two cents:
_Non de elegantibus, sed de malis gustibus disputandum est._


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## wonderment

Frank06 said:


> I'd like to expand this phrase with 'But in matters of bad taste, there is', but I have no idea how to render the contrast in Latin.
> 
> My guess so far:
> De gustibus non est disputandum. Sed (?) de gustibus malis(?) est


It's a good guess, but the expansion won't work because the literal translation reads: 
"Concerning tastes, it must not be disputed. But concerning bad tastes it is/there is." (_est disputandum_ functions as a unit, a passive periphrastic denoting necessity)

My suggestion: 

_De gustibus non est disputandum. De gustibus malis, res alia (est)._
In matters of taste there must be no dispute. Concerning bad tastes, it’s another matter.


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## Fred_C

Frank06 said:


> My guess so far:
> De gustibus non est disputandum. Sed (?) de gustibus malis(?) est.


 

Hi,
I think we can use the adverb "immo", which can correspond to the French "si", or the german "doch".

_De gustibus non est disputandum, de gustibus autem malis,_ immo.


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