# Not/No



## hinterglem

A Brazilian friend was asking me today to explain the difference between the English words 'not' and 'no', as both are translated as 'não' in Portuguese. This had me a bit stumped! How would you explain the difference?

Um amigo brasileiro perguntou-me hoje qual é a diferença entre as palavras 'not' e 'no' em inglês, visto que ambas são traduzidas 'não' em português.  Eu não consegui explicar! Como explicaria a diferença?


----------



## Vanda

Hi Hinterglem. Welcome!

I think the best way to explain her/him is the other way around. I mean, explain to her when you use* no* and when you use *not*. He/she'll realize the difference after that. His/her problem is not with _não_ in Pt. I have the same problems with English begginer students and the way they deal with this problem is understanding how it works in English. 
Well, that is my opinion!


----------



## Outsider

"Not" is normally used when negating a verb.

_I do not understand.
She is not home.
We did not know him._

"No" can mean _não_, or _nenhum_, but I don't think this causes any confusion. In the sense of _não_, it's used mostly in replies.

_'Are you tired yet?' 'No!'_

But compare this with:

_'Are you tired yet?' 'Not at all!'_

Here, the verb "to be" is implicit in the reply, '[I am] not [tired] at all.'

Espero que ajude.


----------



## hinterglem

Thanks for the quick replies. 

@ Vanda: I think in this case, he has already had quite a lot of exposure to examples of not and no, but he wants to understand the difference and why we have 2 different words. It is difficult for him to know when to use which word.

@ Outsider: Thanks for your helpful explanation. I think this case is made more difficult because quite often the verb is implied but not spoken, as you pointed out.


----------



## Whodunit

Could we say that _not_ corresponds to 'nem' and _no_ to 'de modo algum/nenhum' or is this too far-fetched?


----------



## Vanda

Well, so I guess the way is just go to the jugular.  I mean to be straight and short. The person probably doesn't understand much of Pt grammar and so might have problems understanding structures.
One very rough way, I think, would go like that:
Say _no _for short answers (when using just a word).
Ex.: Do you like cake? 
No. _ ( I know, I know things don't go like that, but sometimes the less explanation the better)_
Say _not_ when you use do/does/should/would/ etc...
Do you like cake?
No, I do not like cake.
It might be that after that the person can "see" roughly how it works and be ready to further explanations.
Again, this is just a suggestion.


----------



## Outsider

Whodunit said:


> Could we say that _not_ corresponds to 'nem' and _no_ to 'de modo algum/nenhum' or is this too far-fetched?


_Nem_ means "not even". It's not a very common word.

As for:

No = _De modo algum/nenhum_ ?

You've got me thinking. Obviously, _De modo algum/nenhum_ is excessively emphatic, but if the point is to distinguish "no" from "not", this might not be a bad rule of thumb.


----------



## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> _Nem_ means "not even". It's not a very common word.


 
You're right. I know that "nem" means "not even," but I couldn't think of a better alternative for "not" that has nothing to do with "no." I didn't know that "nem" was not very common, but I think it has no relation to "de modo algum," which was my point.



> You've got me thinking. Obviously, _De modo algum/nenhum_ is excessively emphatic, but if the point is to distinguish "no" from "not", this might not be a bad rule of thumb.


 
I'm glad you like it.  Of course, it is explicitly emphatic, but how can you differentiate two words that almost mean the same without using emphatic words?


----------



## Outsider

One problem, though: set phrases like "Not at all" can also be translated as _De modo nenhum_...


----------



## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> One problem, though: set phrases like "Not at all" can also be translated as _De modo nenhum_...


 
I see, but isn't that the only phrase where "not" corresponds exactly to "no?"


----------



## Outsider

Not so = _não é verdade._ 

Though this one is not that common, either.


----------



## Vanda

No, there are others. I just have to remember in which situations.


----------



## Whodunit

Whodunit said:


> I see, but isn't that the only phrase where "not" corresponds exactly to "no?"


 
I just thought of this common phrase:

"Not really!" It can also be used where "no" would be appropriate. "No, really" would mean something else. I can see this is topic is propbably harder than meant to be.  It would be better to ask about the difference between "no" and "not" in the English forum.


----------



## Outsider

Yes, I have to agree with Vanda. There are too many misleading cases, for example "Not anymore" = _Já não_.


----------



## Whodunit

Vanda said:


> Well, so I guess the way is just go to the jugular.  I mean to be straight and short. The person probably doesn't understand much of Pt grammar and so might have problems understanding structures.


 
By the way, isn't it the same in Spanish and Italian, where "no" and "non," respectively, can both mean "no" and "not" in English?


----------



## Outsider

Yes, I think it's the same in all Romance languages. Even Latin did not have separate words for the two, did it?
I was going to ask you how it was in German, but then I remembered that you have both _nein_ and _nicht_. I guess you use them like in English.


----------



## Whodunit

Outsider said:


> Yes, I think it's the same in all Romance languages. Even Latin did not have separate words for the two, did it?
> I was going to ask you how it was in German, but then I remembered that you have both _nein_ and _nicht_. I guess you use them like in English.


 
I opened a new thread about this interesting topic. You're right about German and Latin (although there were also _ne_ and _non ita_), but in French there are two different ways of negating something: "ne," "pas," or "ne ... pas" (= not) and "non" (= no).


----------



## Outsider

Quite right, I forgot about French!


----------



## hinterglem

Thanks everyone for the comments!


----------

