# Ich freue mich auf heute Abend / Nacht.



## archibaldworthington

Ich freue mich auf heute Abend/Nacht.

What's the difference between the two possibilities? Is it just a matter of "this evening" vs "tonight"? Are there any implications to the usage of either possibility in German that I wouldn't understand just from reading a English translation of the sentence?


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## Schimmelreiter

_heute Nacht_ means _this night, _so it's different from _tonight._ You will be able to imagine situations where the difference is crucial.


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## Ali Smith

In practice, Germans almost always use heute Abend when they are referring to the _night_ of the present day. For example,

Haben Sie heute Abend etwas vor?
Have you got anything planned for tonight?

This cannot mean “Have you got anything planned for this evening?”.


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## elroy

Ali Smith said:


> This cannot mean “Have you got anything planned for this evening?”.


Yes, it can.

"heute abend" can mean *either* "this evening" or "tonight" (referring to either evening or night).

I agree that "heute Nacht" is uncommon.  In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered it in real life.



Schimmelreiter said:


> _heute Nacht_ means _this night, _so it's different from _tonight._


We don't say "this night" in this meaning in English.

Just like German uses "heute *abend*" for both evening and night, English uses "to*night"* for both evening and night!  I never noticed this before.

Similarly, "gestern *abend*" is used for both evening and night, and "last *night*" is also used for both evening and night.  In this case, "last *evening*" is not an option (unlike "this *evening*").   (But we can say "*yesterday* evening").



Schimmelreiter said:


> You will be able to imagine situations where the difference is crucial.


I wish you had elaborated.  I assume you mean that it may be important that something is going to happen at night and not in the evening? 

I think in that case in English we might say, depending on context, "really late tonight" or "(much) later tonight" or something.


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## Sowka

elroy said:


> I agree that "heute Nacht" is uncommon. In fact, I don't think I've ever encountered it in real life.


This would be possible in certain contexts. With the OP sentence:

_Ich freue mich auf heute Nacht, denn um 3 Uhr wird der __Blutmond __zu sehen sein!
Ich freue mich auf heute Nacht, weil heute die Nacht der Museen stattfindet._


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## Kajjo

Ali Smith said:


> This cannot mean “Have you got anything planned for this evening?”.


Maybe I have the wrong impression about Englisch "evening".... but otherwise I dare say, that "tonight / this evening" are both possible and very frequent meanings of "heute Abend".


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## Hutschi

Times:
Tageszeiten in Deutschland - Das sind die richtigen Uhrzeiten
Stuttgarter Zeitung:
Alltagssprache
Tageszeiten in Deutschland - Das sind die Uhrzeiten
Matthias Kemper

*Abend*:
Summer 17 ... 22:00
Winter 17... 21:00

This is approximately the daily time period.


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## Thersites

I agree with Elroy and Sowka. _Heute Abend_ goes for both English expressions. _Heute Nacht_ would only be used when referring to a specific nighttime activity happening unusually late and all into the early morning hours (like a planned nightshift).


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## anahiseri

Isn´t there a thread about Abend -- and about the languages that have none?


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## Sowka

anahiseri said:


> Isn´t there a thread about Abend -- and about the languages that have none?


This thread is about German, and we do have "Abend".


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## elroy

Sowka said:


> _Ich freue mich auf heute Nacht, denn um 3 Uhr wird der __Blutmond __zu sehen sein!
> Ich freue mich auf heute Nacht, weil heute die Nacht der Museen stattfindet._


In English, the most common thing to say would be just “I’m really excited for *tonight*,” without specifying whether it’ll be dark out.

Interestingly enough, “museum night” wouldn’t clarify it either, because that, too, is used for evening and night!  For example, “Spieleabend” = “game night.”  Is “Spielenacht” (or “Nacht der Spiele”) possible in German?

“3 a.m.” does of course clarify.

I’m trying to think of a context where you would really *need* to indicate that the thing will take place *at night*.  If anyone can think of one, let me know.  This may be an example of what @berndf likes to say:

_If your language doesn’t force you to make a distinction, the semantic difference doesn’t really concern you. If you absolutely need to make a distinction, you’ll find a way to do so.  The vast majority of the time, you don’t need to make the distinction — otherwise the language would’ve probably developed a consistent way to do so. _

@berndf, have I paraphrased you correctly?


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## Thersites

elroy said:


> Interestingly enough, “museum night” wouldn’t clarify it either, because that, too, is used for evening and night!  For example, “Spieleabend” = “game night.”  Is “Spielenacht” (or “Nacht der Spiele”) possible in German?


Yes but it would imply that there will be games until 6am, all through the night


elroy said:


> I am trying to think of a context where you would really *need* to indicate that the thing will take place *at night*.  If anyone can think of one, let me know.


A shift change in a hospital at 3am? A lunar eclipse in the wee hours of the morning?

_Abendrot, Gutwetterbrot._


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## elroy

Thersites said:


> A shift change in a hospital at 3am?


Conveniently, we have a term for this one: _graveyard shift_. 🌙



Thersites said:


> A lunar eclipse in the wee hours of the morning?


Isn't it understood that a lunar eclipse would be at night?


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## Thersites

elroy said:


> Conveniently, we have a term for this one: _graveyard shift_. 🌙


I like that.


elroy said:


> Isn't it understand that a lunar eclipse would be at night?


There you have it, if it happened at 8pm, I wouldn't call that "nighttime".


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## elroy

Thersites said:


> There you have it, if it happened at 8pm in wintertime, I wouldn't call that "nighttime".


Why not?  8 p.m. in winter is definitely night(time).  You might be letting German influence you here.


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## Thersites

elroy said:


> Why not?  8 p.m. in winter is definitely night(time).  You might be letting German influence you here.


Yes, that's what I am getting at. In German it is _Abend_ until at least 11pm. It is only after midnight that it is _Nacht_.

I am of course wired the German way 😉


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## elroy

Oh, I see your point.  You're saying that in German if you said the lunar eclipse was going to happen "heute abend," that would imply before 11 p.m.; if you said "heute Nacht," that would imply 11 p.m. or later.  Right?

I get that.  My question is what sort of context might _necessitate_ the specification.  The graveyard shift example is a good one.  And interestingly enough, it seems that English came up with a term for that because it's a relatively common distinction to have to make! 


elroy said:


> _The vast majority of the time, you don’t need to make the distinction — otherwise *the language would’ve probably developed a consistent way to do so*._


(You can also say "*late-night* shift," by the way.  "night shift" would not be specific enough.)

So can you give me an example where it would be important to indicate that the lunar eclipse was going to happen "in der Nacht" and not "am Abend"? 

(It may be hard for me to come up with an example because _I'm_ wired the English/Arabic way.   And Arabic, like English, uses "tonight" for both evening and night.)


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## Thersites

elroy said:


> Oh, I see your point.  You're saying that in German if you said the lunar eclipse was going to happen "heute abend," that would imply before 11 p.m.; if you said "heute Nacht," that would imply 11 p.m. or later.  Right?


Yes, precisely.


elroy said:


> So can you give me an example where it would be important to indicate that the lunar eclipse was going to happen "in der Nacht" and not "am Abend"?


If it happened at 3am or at a time when regular folks are thought to be asleep.


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## elroy

Thersites said:


> If it happened at 3am or at a time when regular folks are thought to be asleep.


_We're gonna be outside *late tonight* so we can see the lunar eclipse. _

 I may have just stumbled upon the key! If you need to specify, you can say "*late* tonight"!

Thank you for helping me get there! 



Thersites said:


> _*Abendr*ot, Gutwetterb*rot*._


Am besten aber _*Abendbrot*_.


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## Hutschi

elroy said:


> Why not?  8 p.m. in winter is definitely night(time).  You might be letting German influence you here.


it depends.
in a stricter sense in Germany there are some definitions:

Tageszeiten in Deutschland - Das sind die richtigen Uhrzeiten
Nacht:
Sommer
22:00 Uhr to 7:00 Uhr
Winter
21:00 Uhr to 6:00 Uhr

Nacht regarding silence requirements depends on region and is basically 22:00 Uhr until 6:00/7:00 Uhr.
Another definition is from dusk to dawn. In the winter 8:00 a.m. fits this definition. At least for some weeks.
It also depends on style.


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## Thersites

Hutschi said:


> Winter
> 21:00 Uhr to 6:00 Uhr


Das sind meiner Meinung nach rechtliche oder naturwissenschaftliche Definitionen.9 Uhr Abends ist doch in der Umgangssprache für niemanden Nacht ??


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## Hutschi

Doch. Es kann regional unterschiedlich sein.
21 Uhr ist es im Winter dunkel.
Bei Kindern wird sogar eher von Nacht gesprochen, das Sandmännchen wünschte immer um Sieben "gute Nacht". Das bedeutet aber: "Schlaf schön" und oft beim Übergang von Abend zu Nacht.

Beim Fotografieren ist Dunkelheit entscheidend bei Nachtbildern.
21 Uhr ist hier Nacht im Winter bei Nachtaufnahmen.
Ich verwende selbst "Nacht" im Winter um 21 Uhr.


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## elroy

I was only talking about English.  8 p.m. in winter is night(time) in English.


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## Hutschi

In German it depends on context.
I can make night photos at 8 a.m. in wintertime for some weeks. These are Nachtaufnahmen.


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## elroy

Hutschi said:


> I can make night photos at 8 a.m. in wintertime for some weeks. These are Nachtaufnahmen.


That's not what this thread is about.  We're talking about "heute abend" and "heute Nacht."  Please stick to the topic.  Thank you!


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## Hutschi

Heute Nacht depends on the time in the year. It also depends on the context, I gave examples.
Heute Nacht komme ich spät. - This is usually after 22:00 but usually not after midnight.
Heute abend fotografiere ich. Es ist dann noch hell.

Treffen wir uns heute abend?
Basically it starts between 18:00 and 22:00 Uhr, but it depends on context.

I do not know the exact English translations.


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## Frank78

elroy said:


> That's not what this thread is about.  We're talking about "heute abend" and "heute Nacht."  Please stick to the topic.  Thank you!



As a rule of thumb "Nacht" is from midnight to about 6.00 am. Depending on your habits and job. For a baker 4am might already be "Morgen".

Even if you want to meet to go to a bar of disco at 11pm, it would still be "heute Abend um 11"


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## Hutschi

Frank78 said:


> Even if you want to meet to go to a bar of disco at 11pm, it would still be "heute Abend um 11"


You have to give the time in this case, else I would not understand you. This extends heute Abend due to your context.


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## elroy

Hutschi said:


> You have to give the time in this case, else I would not understand you.


That's not the point.  The point is, if you're going to go out at 11 p.m. and you don't want or need to specify the exact time, what do you say, "heute abend" or "heute Nacht"?


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## Hutschi

I would say "Heute Nacht um 23 Uhr."
I would say "Heute Nacht" if the time is clear.
PS: if there is no time  I would say: "Heute Nacht bin ich in der Bar."


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## Thersites

To Hutschi's defense, 11pm would have been _Nacht_ 30 or 40 years ago.


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## Frank78

Hutschi said:


> I would say "Heute Nacht um 23 Uhr"





Hutschi said:


> Heute Nacht komme ich spät. - This is usually after 22:00 but usually not after midnight.



That's really strange. If someone told me he came home "in der Nacht/nachts", I'd surely think way after midnight.

I would never use any form of "Nacht" before midnight except for saying "Gute Nacht" when he/she goes to bed or when refering to the astronomical night.


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## διαφορετικός

Someone who expects himself and/or his audience to have their regular night's rest at the relevant time won't call it "heute Abend", but "heute Nacht", except if it is before sunset. However if they are awake at that time, the transition from "heute Abend" to "heute Nacht" can be delayed, especially if the audience (probably) is also awake at that time, at most up to midnight.


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## Hutschi

This gives a new point.
What is "Ich habe heute nacht schlecht geschlafen" when you say it at breakfast, for example?
In my mind it started at the begin of the individual sleeping time, not at 0 a.m.


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## Sowka

Hutschi said:


> What is "Ich habe heute nacht schlecht geschlafen" when you say it at breakfast, for example?
> In my mind it started at the begin of the individual sleeping time, not at 0 a.m.


Yes, this refers to the whole night, just as described by Frank here:



Frank78 said:


> I would never use any form of "Nacht" before midnight* except for saying "Gute Nacht" when he/she goes to bed* or when refering to the astronomical night.


If I go to bed at 8 p.m., everybody will rightly say "Gute Nacht!"


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## Sowka

Schimmelreiter said:


> _heute Nacht_ means _this night, _so it's different from _tonight._ You will be able to imagine situations where the difference is crucial.





elroy said:


> I wish you had elaborated. I assume you mean that it may be important that something is going to happen at night and not in the evening?


I think @Schimmelreiter referred to English speakers who might use "heute Nacht" the way they use "tonight". When I was a teenager I spent a few weeks in England. To me, as a speaker of German, it felt really awkward when someone asked me for my plans "tonight". I thought that he planned very far ahead. ("Hast du heute Nacht schon etwas vor?" )


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## Kajjo

Frank78 said:


> If someone told me he came home "in der Nacht/nachts", I'd surely think way after midnight.


So would I. 



Sowka said:


> If I go to bed at 8 p.m., everybody will rightly say "Gute Nacht!"


Yes, but not because 8 pm is already night, but because they wish you to sleep well the whole evening and night.


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## JClaudeK

Frank78 said:


> If someone told me he came home "in der Nacht [...]", I'd surely think way after midnight.





Frank78 said:


> If someone told me he came home "[....] nachts", I'd surely think way after midnight.


Aber bei "nachts" denke ich nicht unbedingt an "_way after midnight_".



Nehmen wir an, dass jemand spät abends (so gegen 23h) in die Ferien aufbrechen will, dann würde

"Wir fahren heute Abend los." mMn. nicht passen.

Ich würde in diesem Fall sagen: "Wir fahren heute Nacht los."

Es gibt m.E. keine strenge, einmal für immer etablierte Trennung zwischen "heute Abend" (bis ≈ 23h) und "heute Nacht" (nach Mitternacht), das handhabt jeder ein bisschen anders.


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