# kippis



## Encolpius

Hello, I know it means cheers when you drink a toast, but what does kippis mean literally? Is there any trace of the word "health"? Thanks.


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## DrWatson

On this archived page it says that according to Kaisa Häkkinen's _Nykysuomen etymologinen sanakirja_, _kippis _originates from Germanic (cf. modern German _kippen _'tilt, tip over'). _Suomen sanojen alkuperä_ etymological dictionary may have more information but it's not at hand at the moment. Anyhow, no apparent connection to health or healthy (in Finnish _terve_).


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## fennofiili

According to _Nykysuomen etymologinen sanakirja_, the word _kippis _is a slang derivation from the German verb _kippen _(to tilt), which has long been used in the saying _die Gläser kippen_ (to tilt the glasses). The word _kippis _is known from literary sources from the early 20th century.

My intuitive idea was that _kippis _is a derivation from the verb _kipata _: _kippaan_, but according the dictionary, this verb is somewhat newer than _kippis_; the verb too is based on the German or Dutch verb _kippen_. 

The etymology of the German _kippen _(in German) can be found at http://www.dwds.de/.


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## Gavril

Could the -_is_ of _kippis_ be the same suffix seen in colloquial terms like _roskis_ "trash can" (< _roska _"trash"), _kämppis_ "roommate / housemate" (< _kämppä_ "apartment")?


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## Encolpius

Thanks, very interesting. Is kippis a noun? (I don't understand Finnish)


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## Armas

Hello, I'd say kippis is an interjection.
There are other ways saying cheers: Terveydeksi! (health, translative case), skool (Swedish skål means bowl and cheers).
Interestingly there are some words with the suffix -is which are used rather like interjections for example loiskis, molskis (splash, interjection) cf. loiskaus, loiskahdus, molskahdus (splash, noun).


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## Encolpius

Thank you, Armas, so you also have something with "health". Interesting.


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## fennofiili

fennofiili said:


> According to _Nykysuomen etymologinen sanakirja_, the word _kippis _is a slang derivation from the German verb _kippen _(to tilt)



However, there is an alternative explanation: _kippis _could be _kippi _with the 2rd person singular possessive suffix -_s _(standard Finnish -_si_), and _kippi _could be a variant of _kippo _(cup; scoop). This is mentioned in the Kielikello 4/2005 article _Kippis, skool ja Pohjanmaan kautta!_ To me, this explanations sounds like “too good”, too logical: _kippis _could be explained as meaning “(drink) your cup!”.


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## Hakro

It's also important to know that you should never say "kippis" when you are raising glasses with a Frenchman; he would hear it "qui pisse" (who pisses, who urinates).


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## fennofiili

Hakro said:


> It's also important to know that you should never say "kippis" when you are raising glasses with a Frenchman; he would hear it "qui pisse" (who pisses, who urinates).



I would rather say that to a French-speaking person, a properly pronounced “kippis” sounds like “Quippe. Pisse.”, to the extent we can express this in normal orthography. I don’t know how to express in French writing that the last syllable of a phrase has no stress. But my spelling at least says that the first syllable is stressed.


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## Hakro

fennofiili said:


> I would rather say that to a French-speaking person, a properly pronounced “kippis” sounds like “Quippe. Pisse.”, to the extent we can express this in normal orthography. I don’t know how to express in French writing that the last syllable of a phrase has no stress. But my spelling at least says that the first syllable is stressed.


Have you asked a Frenchman to pronounce "Quippe. Pisse"? I doubt it. I haven't either, but I'm quite sure that a Frenchman would pronounce your phrase something like "kipp(ə)piss", with a vague _e muet_ between the p's.

Pronouncing the Finnish double p would probably be impossible for a Frenchman as nothing similar exists in French. When imitating Finns they pronounce the "kippis" like _kipis_. This I have heard so many times that I'm absolutely sure of it. Also the English, Spanish and Italian speakers (and probably many others) pronounce it about the same way.


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## fennofiili

Hakro said:


> Have you asked a Frenchman to pronounce "Quippe. Pisse"?



Not really. It was just my idea that pronouncing the two “words” as separate sentences would give a better approximation of the Finnish “kippis”.




> I haven't either, but I'm quite sure that a Frenchman would pronounce your phrase something like "kipp(ə)piss", with a vague _e muet_ between the p's.?



I don’t think there would be any in-between vowel if the two expressions are pronounced as two sentences.



> Pronouncing the Finnish double p would probably be impossible for a Frenchman as nothing similar exists in French.



This is why I suggested two sentences. The English equivalent would be “Kip. Piss.” Now, this would give each syllable main stress, while only the first one should have it, but I think this is still a closer approximation. Finnish word stress is relatively weak: a stressed first syllable is surely stronger, but an unstressed second syllable is still fully pronounced.

Stressing both syllables is still less serious than the second-syllable stress in the French phrase “qui pisse”.



> When imitating Finns they pronounce the "kippis" like _kipis_. This I have heard so many times that I'm absolutely sure of it. Also the English, Spanish and Italian speakers (and probably many others) pronounce it about the same way.



I don’t doubt that. It’s a natural assumption based on the orthography and phonetics (and phonotaxis) of those languages. My point is that any single-word pronunciation is misleading—more misleading, I would say, than a two-word representation.

Since “kipis” is not a Finnish word, a single-consonant “p” pronunciation of “kippis” just sounds foreign, not ambiguous.


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## Hakro

fennofiili said:


> I don’t think there would be any in-between vowel if the two expressions are pronounced as two sentences.


Just to be sure I skyped to a French friend of mine and asked him to pronounce "Quippe. Pisse". It's hard to say if there was an _e muet_ or just some millisecond's pause between the two p's, but there was something.


> Stressing both syllables is still less serious than the second-syllable stress in the French phrase “qui pisse”.


Depending on the context, The French phrase "qui pisse" can have stress on first, second or both syllables.


> Since “kipis” is not a Finnish word, a single-consonant “p” pronunciation of “kippis” just sounds foreign, not ambiguous.


It's worth noting that a single-consonant p in French (and in many other languages) is much harder than a single p in Finnish. When a Frenchman says "kipis" it sounds as if there were one and a half p's. Of course it sounds foreign, Frenchmen are foreigners.

If you want to have the last word, be my guest. I won't go on this useless arguing.


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## FruRiis

Encolpius said:


> Hello, I know it means cheers when you drink a toast, but what does kippis mean literally? Is there any trace of the word "health"? Thanks.



I have heard this story: When Finns started to emigrate to America, they also took their drinking habits with them. They were loud and violent and were often asked to "keep peace". Finns who came back to Finland started the habit to tell each other in bars,when drinking  to keep peace and when you can't speak english, it sounds like "kippis". That was soon copied and repeated by others. 
That would also explain why literature doesn't mention it earlier.


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