# Can I go to your house this afternoon?



## Paraguayan

konnichiwa minna-san

I want to write , Can I go to your house this afternoon in japanese, but I'm just a beginner, help me please..


私はあなたの家には今日の午後行くことができますか？

arigatou!


----------



## Starfrown

My attempt:

今日の午後、お宅に参らせていただけませんか。

It might be a bit polite.

The native speakers can probably give you better advice, but I'd like to know what they think of mine as well.


----------



## Paraguayan

HElp!!! 

I had an answer from her (my friend) 

え？　かんじ　ならったの。
いま　パパは　テニスに　いっています。
わたしは　スペインごの　しゅくだいを
しています。
きょうの　よていは　なにもありません。
　　　　　　　　　　　
Watashi wa shiranai!!!!

Could you help me translate it properly?

I think that she's surprised that I wrote her in kanji and that she's doing her spanish homework, and has nothinhg else to do today.


----------



## Starfrown

Paraguayan said:


> Watashi wa wakaranai!!!!
> 
> Could you help me translate it properly?
> 
> I think that she's surprised that I wrote her in kanji and that she's doing her spanish homework, and has nothinhg else to do today.


 
You're right.

え？　かんじ　ならったの。 Huh? Have you learned Kanji? 
いま　パパは　テニスに　いっています。 [My] papa is going to [play] tennis now.
わたしは　スペインごの　しゅくだいを I'm doing Spanish homework.
しています。
きょうの　よていは　なにもありません。 There are no plans for today. / [ I ] don't have any plans for today. 　　　

景子 Keiko (other readings are possible)



Starfrown said:


> My attempt:
> 
> 今日の午後、お宅に参らせていただけませんか。


 
I think the following might also be possible:

今日の午後、お宅に*伺わせて*いただけませんか。

I wonder which is better...



Paraguayan said:


> konnichiwa minna-san
> 
> I want to write , Can I go to your house this afternoon in japanese, but I'm just a beginner, help me please..
> 
> 
> 私はあなたの家には今日の午後行くことができますか？
> 
> arigatou!


One of the biggest mistakes that beginners make is to overuse the personal pronouns in Japanese--especially あなた, which in my experience is typically limited to ads and exchanges with complete strangers.  It may also be used by wives as a term of affection rather like the English "dear." 

If you are asking another person a question such as this, there is absolutely no need whatsoever for personal pronouns. There's no way the listener could be confused by the question.

Often where we would use "your" in English, the Japanese simply use an honorific prefix (_o_, _go_, etc.)

Finally, 行くことができます means "I can go" in the sense "I have the ability to go." As far as I know, it is not used in seeking permission.


----------



## Flaminius

Starfrown said:


> いま　パパは　テニスに　いっています。 [My] papa is going to [play] tennis now.


Another occasion for me to start a racket on _teiru_.  He has gone to play tennis.



> 景子 Keiko (other readings are possible)


Just curious but where did you pull this out from?



> I think the following might also be possible:
> 
> 今日の午後、お宅に*伺わせて*いただけませんか。
> 
> I wonder which is better...


Her papa would smile to hear a young man speaking with great manners.  Since you are talking to the girl, however, you'd like to lower the politeness level to something more suitable between peers.

今日の午後、遊びに行ってもいいかな。
(。 can be optionally replaced by ?)


----------



## Starfrown

Flaminius said:


> Another occasion for me to start a racket on _teiru_. He has gone to play tennis.


 
I agree. The resultative reading is more appropriate here. Mea culpa.

However, isn't the progressive reading possible? 



Flaminius said:


> Just curious but where did you pull this out from?


Jim Breen's dictionary says it may also be read Akiko, Akirako, Kyouko, and Hiroko.



Flaminius said:


> Her papa would smile to hear a young man speaking with great manners. Since you are talking to the girl, however, you'd like to lower the politeness level to something more suitable between peers.
> 
> 今日の午後、遊びに行ってもいいかな。
> (。 can be optionally replaced by ?)


I warned the OP above that my sentence was probably too polite for use between peers.

By the way Flaminius, do you think the first sentence I suggested with _mairasete_ would work in formal situations?


----------



## Wishfull

Paraguayan said:


> 私はあなたの家には今日の午後行くことができますか？


 
Hi.
The situation has gone to the next stage and sorry for going back to the first stage.

If I use polite form, my Japanese is a bit different.
今日の午後お宅に*お*伺いしてもよろしいでしょうか。
or
今日の午後お宅に*お邪魔*（おじゃま）してもよろしいでしょうか。
（Here お邪魔　is used like "disturbing".)

By the way I wanted to know about her Mom was in or not.
Wishfull

edit; 
Roughly speaking, 参る　is OK, it is a polite word.
The politeness ranking would be 参る＞伺う＞お邪魔する＞行く.
If Starfrown wants very advanced thing, then, I might say 参る　is too polite in this context.
If you're going to your president's home or boss's home, 参る　is good. Because your president /boss are socially higher rank than you.
If you and your friend are even socially, 伺う　and お邪魔する　are better match.
But usually I don't care if you say 参る　in this context.


----------



## kaito

Starfrown said:


> Jim Breen's dictionary says it may also be read Akiko, Akirako, Kyouko, and Hiroko.



I think Flam means where you got the name from, I can't find it in this thread.


----------



## kewongjapan

In response to the original question, "Can I go to your house this afternoon?";
You could try:
今日の午後は家に行ってもいいですか。
きょうのごごはうちにいってもいいですか。- In hiragana


----------



## Starfrown

kaito said:


> I think Flam means where you got the name from, I can't find it in this thread.


 
PM

----

I see the natives favor a _te mo ii/yoroshii_ construction.

So do you guys think the _causative + te + itadakemasen ka _wouldn't work at all, or is it simply too polite?


----------



## Flaminius

I don't have problems with お宅に伺わせていただけませんか, even if I favour 伺ってもよいでしょうか.  My problem is 参る in this context.  *Wishfull* has argued _supra_ #7 that 参る is politer than 伺う.  I cannot judge which is the politer.  Politeness level, however, does not explain why, of all expressions with similar levels such as お邪魔する and 伺う, 参る alone sounds unnatural.

I try to attribute the unnaturalness to the slightly different meaning of 参る.  One could say both こちらに参る途中 (the sentence uttered in the hearer's house) and 大阪に参る途中 (the sentence can take place anywhere; Ōsaka, Tōkyō, Nagoya).  As for お邪魔する and 伺う, we can see that the speaker's destination is a place closely associated with the hearer.  In fact, 参る is different from the latter two in that it simply means movement between two places while the two have the sense of entering the other party's space.  This makes お邪魔する and 伺う more suitable than 参る in this situation.

To *Starfrown*: I am wondering the question *kaito* mentioned.


----------



## Starfrown

Flaminius said:


> I don't have problems with お宅に伺わせていただけませんか, even if I favour 伺ってもよいでしょうか. My problem is 参る in this context. *Wishfull* has argued _supra_ #7 that 参る is politer than 伺う. I cannot judge which is the politer. Politeness level, however, does not explain why, of all expressions with similar levels such as お邪魔する and 伺う, 参る alone sounds unnatural.
> 
> I try to attribute the unnaturalness to the slightly different meaning of 参る. One could say both こちらに参る途中 (the sentence uttered in the hearer's house) and 大阪に参る途中 (the sentence can take place anywhere; Ōsaka, Tōkyō, Nagoya). As for お邪魔する and 伺う, we can see that the speaker's destination is a place closely associated with the hearer. *In fact, 参る is different from the latter two in that it simply means movement between two places while the two have the sense of entering the other party's space.* This makes お邪魔する and 伺う more suitable than 参る in this situation.
> 
> To *Starfrown*: I am wondering the question *kaito* mentioned.


 
That's what I was concerned about in the beginning. In English, of course, "_go_ to someone's house" is completely natural. I was not sure whether the Japanese _iku/mairu_ could be used in exactly the same way--that is, to suggest visiting. That's why I revised my suggestion slightly with 伺う; I knew for sure that it would be okay.
------
The name _Keiko_ came from a private message. I didn't realize that it wasn't posted here in this thread.
------
I have one more question for you. Do you think that the following would be acceptable in a very formal situation:

お宅にお伺いさせていただけませんか。

?


----------



## Morrow

Paraguayan said:


> Can I go to your house this afternoon


(1) Can I [go/come] to your house this afternoon?

The Japanese counterpart of (1) (whatever it may be) sounds offensive to me unless the focus is put on "this afternoon," meaning "今日の午後で(も)いいですか."  Culturally, you need to have an invitation first, and then you're supposed to choose from the possible time slots given overtly or covertly.

Change the verb and drop the time expression:
(2) Can I *come *to *your* house?

This time, the corresponding expression is less restricted in its use.  It will also help you understand the difference between "行く/来る" and "go/come."
Strictly speaking, "伺う" is closer in idea to "come," although the direction of power flow reverses; the choice of "伺う" puts the speaker in a one-down position while the choice of "come" places the listener in a "one-up" position.   

And (2) is just asking if it is possible for me to come to your house, so it is completely wrong to try to come up with its Japanese counterparts by using "敬語."  

Morrow


----------



## Starfrown

Morrow said:


> (1) Can I [go/come] to your house this afternoon?
> 
> The Japanese counterpart of (1) (whatever it may be) sounds offensive to me unless the focus is put on "this afternoon," meaning "今日の午後で(も)いいですか." *Culturally, you need to have an invitation first, and then you're supposed to choose from the possible time slots given overtly or covertly.*


Even here in America, this is typically the case. The OP's question would only be acceptable with very close friends or family, and even then, the questioner would have to be careful.



Morrow said:


> Change the verb and drop the time expression:
> (2) Can I *come *to *your* house?
> 
> This time, the corresponding expression is less restricted in its use. It will also help you understand the difference between "行く/来る" and "go/come."
> Strictly speaking, "伺う" is closer in idea to "come," although the direction of power flow reverses; the choice of "伺う" puts the speaker in a one-down position while the choice of "come" places the listener in a "one-up" position.
> 
> *And (2) is just asking if it is possible for me to come to your house, so it is completely wrong to try to come up with its Japanese counterparts by using "敬語."*


For my sake, could you explain the part in bold a bit more?


----------



## Flaminius

kewongjapan said:


> In response to the original question, "Can I go to your house this afternoon?";
> You could try:
> 今日の午後は家に行ってもいいですか。
> きょうのごごはうちにいってもいいですか。- In hiragana


I am sorry for being vague, but I find your sentence somewhat unnatural without knowing what makes it so specifically.  Any other natives to comment?



			
				Starfrown #6 said:
			
		

> However, isn't the progressive reading possible?


いっている is tough to understand as progressive.  If her papa's movement from home to the tennis venue (wheee...) is in progress now, the progressive sense is conveyed with more appropriate verbs; むかっている, 移動している.  This observation seems to suggest that いく here is "leave one's previous location to a destination."  If her papa has left home, the act of いく is complete and cannot be construed as unfinished.  Besides, leaving is to expected to take place in a very short period of time (once beyond the threshold, the leaving is finished), so seeing いく in progressive, a kind of snapshot while いく is taking place, is very difficult by definition.



Starfrown said:


> I have one more question for you. Do you think that the following would be acceptable in a very formal situation:
> 
> お宅にお伺いさせていただけませんか。
> 
> ?


It took me a few minutes to ruminate over the sentence, but yes, it's acceptable in a very formal situation.


----------



## Flaminius

Starfrown said:


> Morrow said:
> 
> 
> 
> Change the verb and drop the time expression:
> (2) Can I *come *to *your* house?
> 
> . . . .
> *
> And (2) is just asking if it is possible for me to come to your house, so it is completely wrong to try to come up with its Japanese counterparts by using "敬語."*
> 
> 
> 
> For my sake, could you explain the part in bold a bit more?
Click to expand...

I am not *Morrow* but let me try.  Japanese verbs くる and いく are movements towards and away from the speaker.  English verbs _come_ and _go_ mean the same but, additionally, _come_ can be a movement by the speaker to a venue that has been established as a topic of the conversation.

Can I come to your house?
The destination "your house" clearly requires the verb _come_ to be understood in the additional sense above. Japanese くる does not have this function.


----------

