# Irish / Scottish Gaelic: Difference in Vocabulary



## natasha2000

Hm, excuse my ignorance, but... How different Irish and Scottish Gaelic are? For example, a toponim in Scottland - can it be read according to the pronunciation rules of Irish Gaelic?


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## Outsider

From what I understand, pronunciation varies considerably even within Ireland. Wikipedia has an article on the differences between Irish and Scottish Gaelic, but it's a bit slim.


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## bb3ca201

I can understand a speaker of Irish Gaelic -- if he speaks slowly.  There IS considerable difference between dialects of both languages.  Our languages come from a common ancestor (and, some would say that Scottish Gaelic originates from Irish!), so there are still a great amount of similarity.  

Also, Scottish Gaelic tends to look "older"; Irish Gaelic has gotten rid of a lot of silent consonants, or simplified them.


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## fodhla

Apparently there's only 500-600 word of a difference between Irish and Scottish Gaelic (excluding words that are more or less the same but spelled differently, e.g. scoil/sgoil, croí/croidhe.)

Someone has to have studied this to come up with the fact, so I was just wondering if anyone has ever come across a list of these words or if anyone knows where I could find this kind of list (either online or printed)?

Your help would be much appreciated


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## L'irlandais

Hello fodhla,
welcome to the forums.  

The *Resources *for Other Languages, which is_ (I'm told)_ constantly updated, suggests this *glossary*.

You should be able to identify dozens of differences in vocab, from the list.
Good Luck,


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## AlJaahil

Scottish Gaelic has more words from Norse than Irish does, for historical reasons.

There are also words which are similar or identical but have wildly  different nuances. _Bodach_, for example, is simply "old man" in Gaelic  but apparently is more like "macho d*ckhead"  in Irish (L'irlandais please correct me if I'm wrong here); another  example is _leannan_, which is a perfectly proper "beloved/boyfriend/girlfriend" in Gaelic  but more like "lover/paramour/mistress" in Irish - much more illicit-sounding.


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## elirlandes

AlJaahil said:


> Scottish Gaelic has more words from Norse than Irish does, for historical reasons.
> 
> There are also words which are similar or identical but have wildly  different nuances. _Bodach_, for example, is simply "old man" in Gaelic  but apparently is more like "macho d*ckhead"  in Irish (L'irlandais please correct me if I'm wrong here); another  example is _leannan_, which is a perfectly proper "beloved/boyfriend/girlfriend" in Gaelic  but more like "lover/paramour/mistress" in Irish - much more illicit-sounding.



Your descriptions of the connotations of the words "bodach" and "leannan" in Irish are correct.

"Bod" is penis. "Bodach" is like calling someone "a big prick", although sometimes it is softer and is more like an "oaf" or a "lout".

"Leannán" is indeed like a lover or a heart-throb.

On the Scottish Gaelic meanings, I have no idea.


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## AlJaahil

Yeah, Gàidhlig still uses _bod_ for penis and it's avoided in polite company - but _bodach_ passes without comment - it just means "old man." _Leannan_ is perfectly fine too, in Gàidhlig, you'd introduce your boyfriend/girlfriend to your grandma with that word and no one would turn a hair; apparently however it's raised a few eyebrows of Gaeilge-speakers learning Gàidhlig songs, "You lot are a bit blunt, eh?"


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## elirlandes

AlJaahil said:


> _Leannan_ is perfectly fine too, in Gàidhlig, you'd introduce your boyfriend/girlfriend to your grandma with that word and no one would turn a hair; apparently however it's raised a few eyebrows of Gaeilge-speakers learning Gàidhlig songs, "You lot are a bit blunt, eh?"



In Ulster, you might hear this word used as a loan word in English... it appears in the old english language classic Antrim song, "My Lagan Love" more as a darling than as a lover. ["...and like a lovesick leannan-she, she hath my heart enthralled"]

My Irish is "learned" as opposed to truely native, and I learned it both in the North and in Dublin, so I'm not sure if my understanding of this word as not being too strong indicates :
1) the Ulster english language usage (as in "My Lagan Love")
2) Ulster Irish (which sits somewhere between Gaeilge and Scottish Gaelic in terms of dialect)
3) Gaeilge (Irish from the South)...

Thoughts welcome from any compatriot...


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## franc 91

You might like to know that there is a CD of children's songs in Scots Gaelic (available from Croilleagan Inbhir Pheofharain, An Taigh Gàidhlig - in Dingwall) called Am Bodach Beag Annasach which is translated as The Strange Wee Man. He was at one time the Bogey Man for many Gaelic-speaking children so apparently the meaning of 'bodach' has evolved over time through several meanings.
And of course I forgot to mention that Bodach na Nollaige is Father Christmas. (Not Daidi na Nollag as in Irish)


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## Alxmrphi

> Our languages come from a common ancestor (and, some would say that Scottish Gaelic originates from Irish!)



I thought this was common fact? I remember doing accent study in Scotland and we learned about this, Irish speakers migrating brought the language over to Scotland and it is a descendent from Irish. I didn't think it was a point for debate, so it was interesting to see this comment. Is this not a well known fact?


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## franc 91

You might like to have a look at the Wikipedia page on this subject -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goidelic_languages
I've always been struck by the linguistic contrast between Scottish placenames such as Aberdeen and Inverness - the word aber is obviously common in Wales but it is also found in Brittany and inbhir/inver which is only found in Scotland, whereas in Ireland you find the word béal (mouth) as in Belfast and the same idea is found in English - (Portsmouth, Weymouth, Plymouth) as well as in French - les Bouches du Rhône.


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## Alxmrphi

> whereas in Ireland you find the word béal (mouth) as in Belfast and the same idea is found in English - (Portsmouth, Weymouth, Plymouth)


 
So the Irish names for those places have *béal* in them?


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## franc 91

No I'm only saying that the idea is the same - mouth, not that there are Irish names for these English towns. By the way Béal Feirste is the Irish for Belfast.


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## Alxmrphi

Ah, when you said the thing about Irish usage and then said the same thing exists in English, I thought you meant there was a relationship.

Interesting fact about the origin of _Belfast_, I didn't know that


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## franc 91

That doesn't mean to say that there aren't words in Irish for towns and cities outside of Ireland, there are. Liverpool for example is Learpholl, London is Londain and Pàras is Paris.


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## Alxmrphi

I had heard that London is actually a Celtic name, and was used and copied by the Romans to call the main city. Liverpool is my home town and when I moved to Wales and learned my basic expressions like Dw yn byw mewn Leorpholl I found Welsh copied the English name, after researching the origins of how Liverpool got its name. Is there a common Irish word relating to Caer? That's quite popular in Welsh.


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## franc 91

Caer comes directly from the Latin word castrum (castra) - in English placenames you find it in the names ending in chester or caster (Lancaster, Manchester etc). In Irish as there was no Roman invasion, Latin influences occur much later, usually through Norman French - the word for castle which does appear in Irish placenames is caisleàn (pronounced cashlawn). Interestingly the word for dungeon is doinsiun (with an accent on the 'u') because for the Normans le donjon meant the keep where they lived, but for the English and Irish it obviously meant a prison cell. There are other misappropriations of other words in this context between Norman French and English such as moat/motte, bailey/bailiff/bailli but they aren't found in Irish.
I would also like to mention that if you wish to explore the way Irish placenames have been transcribed into English there is the website - http://www.logainm.ie


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## elirlandes

franc 91 said:


> That doesn't mean to say that there aren't words in Irish for towns and cities outside of Ireland, there are. Liverpool for example is Learpholl, London is Londain and P*á*r*a*s is Paris.



Most Irish language placenames for places outside Ireland simply reflect an Irish language pronounciation of the places actual name. 

The placename specific to Irish that I am aware of outside the British Isles is "Talamh an Éisc" (Land of the Fish) for "Newfoundland" - historically a good hunting ground for Irish fishermen I suspect...


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## L'irlandais

elirlandes said:


> ... "Talamh an Éisc" (Land of the Fish) for "Newfoundland" - historically a _good_ hunting _ground for Irish fishermen _I suspect...


Hi ya,


> The term "Fishing Ground" better captures the spirit of the 16th century Gaelic name.
> Source :  *Leeds' Uni. * (UK)


I suspect that the Old Irish name for Newfoundland was quite different ; not all that sure where one might look that up however.


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## Pedro y La Torre

Interesting conversation. With my rusty Irish, I enjoy listening to BBC Alba and Radio nan Gàidheal and can generally grasp quite a lot of what is going on. Written Scottish Gaelic is easier to understand and would, I suspect, be made that much easier if Scottish reformed its spelling (and its fadas!) along the lines of Irish post-1945.

I presume a native Ulster Irish speaker and a Gaelic speaker from the Western Isles would have very little difficulty communicating with one another, someone from Connacht or Munster might take that bit longer to acclimate but I can't imagine it would be very hard.


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## franc 91

Well I know of two people at least who could answer that question for you and they are Julie Fowlis, the singer from Uist and Muireann Nic Amhlaoibh from West Kerry who sings with Danù. The two singers have recorded a CD entitled Dual (together with Eamon Doorley and Ross Martin) on which they have songs in both Gaeilge and Gàidhlig and they join the choruses together - Eadar Alba is Eirinn! 
On the Irish Gaelic Forum there are often discussions on this subject and there are Irish speakers such as CaoimhinSF who also speak and provide translations of Gàidhlig.
There is a very good on-line Irish-Welsh dictionary provided by Lexicelt, it's a pity they don't have Gaeilge-Gàidhlig.


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