# 快过



## anialuo

Hi,

I've found the following sentence in my study book:

甲型H1N1的传播速度甚至要快过SARS.

There was a note: 快过是"比...快" 的意思.

I have never come across such an use of "过" and I'd like to make it more clear. Can "过" be used in such a construction ie. adj.+GUO with every adjective?
What structures can it be used in?
Thanks for your help!


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## AquisM

In standard Mandarin, and in written Chinese, I would say no. This structure, adjective + 过, is standard in spoken Cantonese (as well as a few other southern dialects, I think), but when writing Chinese, I was always taught not to write it like this as it is considered a "Cantonism". Where was your book published?


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## YangMuye

Well, “adj.过...” is less common than “比…adj.”, but doesn't need to be dialectal.


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## anialuo

Hi,


AquisM said:


> Where was your book published?


. The book is Beijing language and culture University Press.


Can I use it in sentences such as: 她聪明过她的哥哥?


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## xiaolijie

"*adj.+GUO*"  means "*more adj. than*" in English. In your example: "...*faster than* SARS". This is a general pattern, but we normally wouldn't want to use words like "always", "every", "never", etc... when discussing language .

Edit: I was too slow in writing and didn't see other posts. Anyway, "她聪明过她的哥哥" doesn't sound quite natural. I normally see this structure in more formal, written language.


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## xiaolijie

AquisM said:


> In standard Mandarin, and in written Chinese, I would say no. This structure, adjective + 过, is standard in spoken Cantonese (as well as a few other southern dialects, I think), but when writing Chinese, I was always taught not to write it like this as it is considered a "Cantonism". Where was your book published?


I don't think it is quite like that, AquisM. Just a very quick look and I found these examples, which seem to contradict what you've said:
呼声*一浪高过一浪* 
考试居然通过了，他*大喜过望*。


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## YangMuye

> Can I use it in sentences such as: 她聪明过她的哥哥?


It's not natural.
Maybe the structure is usually used with one-syllable adjectives.



> I normally see this structure in more formal, written language.


I agree.
他聪明过人 sounds fine.


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## AquisM

YangMuye said:


> Well, “adj.过...” is less common than “比…adj.”, but doesn't need to be dialectal.


也就是说，在大陆，你们也用adj. + 过，对吗？因为在香港，人们通常以广东话为母语，就认为这是个“广东化”的结构，说普通话或写中文时就不应该用。


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## YangMuye

AquisM said:


> 也就是说，在大陆，你们也用adj. + 过，对吗？因为在香港，人们通常以广东话为母语，就认为这是个“广东化”的结构，说普通话或写中文时就不应该用。


从现代作家的文学作品来看，无疑是用的。但怎么用，用到什么程度，就是另一个问题了。
显然，普通话的“adj.+过”的结构很受限制。

EDIT:
It's not a paper of high quality, but I can't find another one.
王丽香(2009)汉语特殊句式与对外汉语教学——从“x+形+过+y”的句式意义谈起


> 只有单音节形容词才可以进入该句式





> 现在，我们基本上可以对“x+形+过+y”的句式意义做这样的概括：通过预设 Y 具有程度高量的“形”的特征，来突出说话人的主观感受：即认为 x 在比较点上具有极端或过分“形”的性质。所以，这是一种主观性句式，它的语用功能是表达了一种与共享预期不一致或相反的命题。


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## kareno999

xiaolijie said:


> I don't think it is quite like that, AquisM. Just a very quick look and I found these examples, which seem to contradict what you've said:
> 呼声*一浪高过一浪*
> 考试居然通过了，他*大喜过望*。


*大喜过望 *doesn't fit into this usage though.


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## xiaolijie

kareno999 said:


> *大喜过望 *doesn't fit into this usage though.


What's made you think so?


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## kareno999

xiaolijie said:


> What's made you think so?


because 过 is a verb in this idiom, not a preposition


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## xiaolijie

kareno999 said:


> because 过 is a verb in this idiom, not a preposition


Well that is one way of looking at it, although not the only one but I'd better not go into this.

(By the way, saying that 过, 给, 跟, etc are verbs and not prepositions (or vice versa) , you're entering another controversial arena. But if you're interested, by all means, PM me )


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## YangMuye

I think a better reason is:
大喜过望 is not “much *happier than* one expected” but “very happy because things are *better than* one expected”.


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## uhandai

I agree with AquisM. 

Two examples from Cantonese:
1. 我行得_快过_你  or 我行得_比你快_    In these two sentences, 快 is treated as an adverb _快过_你 and _比你快 _are both acceptable.
however
2. 我件衫_靓过你_ but not 我件衫_比你的靓_  Here, only adj + 过 + obj is acceptable. Possibly the Cantonese learners will speak will in the second way, but that will be highly marked and immediately reveal him as not a native Cantonese speaker.

So, as a Chinese learner, it will be much safer to use the _比 + adj + adj_ structure when speaking Mandarin.


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## xiaolijie

我觉得这里的 “adj+过...” 是很像 “adj+于...” 的:
他的水平高于我，但是我的体力强于他。
五大于三。

你们说呢？


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## HongKonger

王丽香的文章提及單音節的限制可能與節奏有關, 但我必須要指出並非只有单音节形容词才可以进入“x+形+过+y”這句式, 如:
1. 佢犀利過我
2. 佢聰明過我
3. 佢勤力過我
就廣東話這種方言而言, 這些句子實在十分普遍, 讀起來並沒有節奏上不流暢的感覺.


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## YangMuye

xiaolijie said:


> 我觉得这里的 “adj+过...” 是很想 “adj+于...” 的:
> 他的水平高于我，但是我的体力强于他。
> 五大于三。
> 你们说呢？


语法很相似。
其实我上面那篇文章也提到了，现代汉语的“adj+过”可能是后来从文言文中引进的。
不过那篇文章也提到，现代汉语的“adj+过”只有在一定的语义条件下才能使用，这点又跟“于”不同。



HongKonger said:


> 王丽香的文章提及單音節的限制可能與節奏有關, 但我必須要指出並非只有单音节形容词才可以进入“x+形+过+y”這句式


这里讨论的是“普通话”的用法。跟粤语无关。


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## HongKonger

即是說單音節的限制只適用於國語, 不適用於粵語.


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