# ne biri bilin, ne beşi



## sufler

Merhaba.
I've read a book about Turkish folk riddles, and there was one which I took this line from: _ne biri bilin, ne beşi
_Only myself I'd figure out this phrase means just "Do not know (pl) one, nor five!"
But according to the translation (which was originally Polish and now I'm trying to re-translate into English),
it's supposed to mean "you won't guess one nor five"...

So this is actually an indicative statement not  imperative.
And that is my question, is it true you in Turkish really comprehend negative imperatives of "bilmek" as indicatives "you won't guess/know"?


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## Rallino

Merhaba Sufler,
 Without any context, the sentence doesn't make much sense to me.
 Can you give some context please? What are the previous and the next sentences?
 Thank you


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## sufler

Actually it's hard for me to quote the full texts of riddles from this book,
because it had been written before the Latin alphabet was introduced in Turkey,
so all the trancriptions are prepared by the author and they are not always compatible with modern Turkish writing.
He just wrote down just as he heard.

Anyway, it's something like this:
_sana derim, ey gişi,
ne biri bilin, ne beşi.
bir koyun kuzu kuzlamış,
anası erkek kuzsu dişi_


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## Estella

Hi sufler,

That sentence should read as "Ne biri *bilirsin*, ne beşi." The whole riddle is written in dialect, that's why the conjugations are not standard. So the sentence is indeed indicative, not imperative! Translation: You know neither one, nor five. Though I have no idea what that means!


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## murattug

I want append an extra information
the n sound which is at the end of *bilin* has a different pronunciation
as I know it is "nasal N"

look at this page (or its translation  )
http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ñ 
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ñ


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## Reverence

Reminds me of the eastern Anatolian fellows in my division back when I was doing my time in the army. You'd rhetorically ask them, "Yalan mı?" ("Is it a lie?", akin to "Am I right?"), as a figure of speech, and they would mistake it for "yalar mısın?" ("would you lick?"). Hilarity would ensue.

The riddle in question is too old for the new generation, as the dialect would suggest. The one and five here are Allah and five tenets of Islam (or five times of prayer in one day; it varies). While we're at it, the lambs of questionable parentage in the riddle are Adam and Eve.


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## sufler

@Reverence, yeah, your solution to this riddle totally fits in the correct answer given in the book. And your explanation is even more detailed! 
I think only a real Turk can decipher those vague references and metaphors


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## Reverence

Of course, being exposed to the Turkish culture to a certain extent is necessary in order to make heads and tails of such elements, and being a native certainly helps. I know of several foreigners, however, who are much more knowledgeable about Turkish culture compared to many natives who claim to be Turks.

Glad I could help!


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