# Por and Para



## arbilab

Please, what is the distinction between  _por_ and _para_?  Both have come up in similar contexts here today.


----------



## slacker11

arbilab said:


> Please, what is the distinction between  _por_ and _para_?  Both have come up in similar contexts here today.



Que contexto, cite exemplos!


----------



## Fran22

Por se usa por ejemplo como "por medio de", "a causa de", 
"cerca de", puede tener distintos significados de acuerdo al contexto.

Y para puede corresponder en algunos casos al "to" del inglés. 

Definitivamente tendría que poner un caso concreto para ayudarle.


----------



## Quovadis

arbilab said:


> Please, what is the distinction between _por_ and _para_? Both have come up in similar contexts here today.


 
*Para* usually means something that is "for" - _*to be given to you*_: La carta es para ti. The letter is for you.

*Por *would be in the sense of _*"on your behalf":*_ Yo excribirè la carta por ti. I'll write the the letter for you.

*Also, por can mean by.*

Does this help?

Quovadis


----------



## arbilab

Obrigado, todos.  Every perspective helps.  Quo-'s was most illuminating.

Both translate to English as 'for'.  'For' also has many applications within English.

I have the same difficulty with ser and estar.  Both translate as 'to be'.  But they are used very differently.

I am sorry for not providing specific context.  I would have to quote several entries to illustrate the distinction I have encountered.


----------



## Vanda

Atenção: Neste fórum não escrevemos em espanhol. Temos um subfórum para português e espanhol. Aqui, todas as línguas menos o espanhol!


----------



## Outsider

_para_: normally "to" or "for" --> indicates a destination or a purpose

_por_: normally "by" or "for" --> indicates a path, a means, or a motive


----------



## arbilab

Obrigado, Out.

It came up in this context:



> _tenho_ _carinho por você_


 When the original poster had said _...para__ você.  _I understand/translate them the same, but in construction one is correct and the other is not.

Let me see if I can use it correctly.  If I want to say "I am going for coffee", as if I were excusing myself to leave a group for a purpose, would that be _ir'a para caf'e_?


----------



## Outsider

arbilab said:


> It came up in this context:
> 
> 
> 
> tenho carinho por você
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When the original poster had said _...para__ você.  _I understand/translate them the same, but in construction one is correct and the other is not.
Click to expand...

That is a tricky one indeed. One of the cases that you basically will have to memorize. To say that we feel or do something for someone, we use _por_.



arbilab said:


> Let me see if I can use it correctly.  If I want to say "I am going for coffee", as if I were excusing myself to leave a group for a purpose, would that be _ir'a para caf'e_?


_Para_ is the correct preposition, but normally we don't just say "coffee" in this context. "Vou sair para tomar café."


----------



## Fran22

Hi!

My mother tongue is Spanish and I would say:

"sentir cariño por alguien"

"ir por un café"


----------



## Denis555

arbilab said:


> Obrigado, Out.
> 
> It came up in this context:
> 
> When the original poster had said _...para__ você. _I understand/translate them the same, but in construction one is correct and the other is not.
> 
> Let me see if I can use it correctly. If I want to say "I am going for coffee", as if I were excusing myself to leave a group for a purpose, would that be _ir para um café_?


 
There's a problem here. Because we usually say "ir para" =to go to (a place) we can't use it just like in English. Neither will it sound right "por". It'd be better to say: ir *tomar* um café or sair(=leave) *para tomar *um café. In the last example, remember that we can use "para" with a sense of purpose with verbs : para fazer algo = to (in order to) do something.


----------



## Outsider

Fran22 said:


> My mother tongue is Spanish and I would say:
> 
> "sentir cariño por alguien"


It's the same in Portuguese. 



Fran22 said:


> "ir por un café"


This one is different, though. 

P.S. Please use either English or Portuguese in this forum. There is another forum for Spanish-Portuguese.


----------



## Denis555

We can't say: *ir por um café* like in Spanish as Fran22 told us. 
*Only *in such a situation: I want you to go somewhere and I say: 
Estou a fim de tomar uma Coca-Cola, você poderia ir ao supermercado comprar uma pra mim? Você poderia* ir por um café*? (I will offer you a coffee if you go there).


----------



## Frajola

Denis555 said:


> Estou a fim de tomar uma Coca-Cola, você poderia ir ao supermercado comprar uma pra mim? Você poderia* ir por um café*? (I will offer you a coffee if you go there).


 
Good example, Dennis. But I think that, though a plausible line and, as you aptly noted, possibly the only one using POR in that context, saying something like that would be pushing it a bit, don't you think?

Native speakers I think are more likely to use 'PARA' in that context and say something like, "Você iria para tomar um café?". 

Learners of Portuguese would be better off just not saying 'por um café', I think.




EDIT: Picking up on what Outsider said, besides using POR to mean FOR SOMEONE, in Portuguese one can also use POR to mean FOR SOMETHING THAT BENEFITS ONE. For example:

Eu não faria isso POR dinheiro algum.
>> I wouldn't do that FOR all the money in the world.

Just thought I'd add that to the roster of possible uses of POR.


----------



## Quovadis

arbilab said:


> Obrigado, todos. Every perspective helps. Quo-'s was most illuminating.
> 
> Both translate to English as 'for'. 'For' also has many applications within English.
> 
> I have the same difficulty with ser and estar. Both translate as 'to be'. But they are used very differently.
> 
> I am sorry for not providing specific context. I would have to quote several entries to illustrate the distinction I have encountered.


 
Thank you for the nice compliment. As for ser and estar, pehaps the easiest way to think of them is that estar is temporary: Estoy enfermo, I am sick (ill), and ser is more permanent. Soy de California, I am from California. = Ella está enojada, she is angry; but ella es bonita, she is pretty. This may not apply in every instance, but it is a starter to understand the difference.

Good luck, 

Quovadis


----------



## Frajola

Quovadis said:


> Thank you for the nice compliment. As for ser and estar, pehaps the easiest way to think of them is that estar is temporary: Estoy enfermo, I am sick (ill), and ser is more permanent. Soy de California, I am from California. = Ella está enojada, she is angry; but ella es bonita, she is pretty. This may not apply in every instance, but it is a starter to understand the difference.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Quovadis


 

Please respect the rules of this forum and post your thoughts on the Spanish language where it belongs! Show you care...


----------



## arbilab

Thanks to everyone.  Obrigado _por_ o/suas ajuda (?).  (Have I also seen that as ..._pela ajuda_?)

I have a clearer picture now.  But I am sure I will still get it wrong now and again.

Do not be too harsh on Quo.  I brought up ser/estar because I thought they were the same words in Portuguese.  Whereas bringing them up at all was tangential to the para/por discussion.  It is my mistake.


----------



## Frajola

arbilab said:


> Thanks to everyone. Obrigado _por_ o/suas ajuda (?). (Have I also seen that as ..._pela ajuda_?)
> 
> I have a clearer picture now. But I am sure I will still get it wrong now and again.


 


Obrigado pela ajuda
Obrigado pelo apoio (=support)

pela = por + a (por = for / a = feminine the)
pelo = por + o (por = for / o = masculine the)

Obrigado por sua ajuda
(=Thank you for YOUR help (no article 'the')



EDIT: You may have not noticed, but your tangential question was answered using Spanish. E há um fórum especial para isto.


----------



## Denis555

Frajola said:


> Good example, Dennis. But I think that, though a plausible line and, as you aptly noted, possibly the only one using POR in that context, saying something like that would be pushing it a bit, don't you think?


 
Frajola, I agree with you on what you said. Those situations are kind of rare, anyway.



Quovadis said:


> Thank you for the nice compliment. As for ser and estar, pehaps the easiest way to think of them is that estar is temporary: Estoy enfermo, I am sick (ill), and ser is more permanent. Soy de California, I am from California. = Ella está enojada, she is angry; but ella es bonita, she is pretty. This may not apply in every instance, but it is a starter to understand the difference.
> 
> Good luck,
> 
> Quovadis


 
Quavadis, I don't think it's a good idea to use examples written in Spanish to illustrate Portuguese-language usage although they're similar. It can be confusing for someone starting to learn Portuguese who happens to have a glance at those sentences and think it's Portuguese unless you state that it's Spanish you're talking about.


----------



## arbilab

Obrigado, Frajola.  Every example helps.  But technically, asking about _pela_ in this thread was also marginally off topic.  Perhaps I should not have done that.

Para and por are the same in both languages, and best I can tell their applications are the same.  But you are quite correct, examples should be strictly in Portuguese.


----------



## Fran22

Ooops I´m sorry I thought your mother tongue was portuguese and that you needed help for Spanish. We also have the words "para" and "por" , and it seems they mean the same in some cases, so I got confused.

I´m really sorry!


----------

