# Hindi: In the bagal?



## lcfatima

I have a Hindi speaking friend who I have heard describe places located as "iske bagal mein." 

Voh dukaan is park ke bagal mein hai.



Do you recognize this expression? Is this the same "baghal" as an armpit (she does not pronounce the "ghain" though)? If you know this expression, can you kindly explain it? Would Urdu speakers also understand this?


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## panjabigator

I think they are the same words and I believe it means "on the side."  I thought it came from Urdu.


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## Illuminatus

Yes, it is perfectly understood and widely used.

_Bagal _means, _side, _as in, situated beside something.

Bagal also means armpit and is spelled with G not GH in Hindi.

_Us badi imaarat ke bagal mein ek choti si chaay ki dukaan hai

EDIT: _There is a Hindi saying: _Bagal mein chhora, gaanv mein dhindhora._


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## lcfatima

Okay, thanks for the info.

So in Hindi there is no small bindu below the /g/ indicating it is a Persio-Arabic /gh/?

Is the usage of these little dots dying out in print?


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## Illuminatus

Now that you ask me, I need to look it up myself 

Actually, it's been a long long time since I even saw the 'g' with a Dot.

'Ph' with a dot is common, but I guess the Qaf and Ghain are slowly losing out.


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## panjabigator

You rarely see the nuqta in written Hindi (where <zyaadaa> is written as <jyaadaa>), but I wonder if Bollywood  is helping to spread these pronunciations.


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## Illuminatus

The Z sound as in Zebra does not exist in Hindi. So, it becomes Jyada


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## Faylasoof

“Baghal” is from Farsi = embrace, armful, bosom, side. In Urdu it means &quot;on the side&quot;, as pajabigator says, and also implies nearness. Yes, it is from Urdu.  There is “baghal” in Arabic too but it means “mule”!    Some useful expressions using “baghal”:  بغل میں دبانا   [baghal mein dabaanaa] =  to conceal  بغل گیر ہونا   [baghal geer honaa] =  to hug / embrace    بغل كا چور  [baghal kaa chor]  =  friend turned enemy, a turncoat   بغلیں بجانا [baghalein bajaanaa]  =  to be overjoyed / elated   بغلیں جھانكنا [baghalein jhaaNkaa]  =  to feel embarassed / ashamed   بغلی دشمن  [baghalee dushman] =  a hidden enemy, fifth columnist


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## Faylasoof

Illuminatus,  I’ve also noted that the “ph” + dot is still there, but not so others. Indeed in old Hindi “z” (which represents ذ ز ظ ض ),  “kh”( خ ), “gh”( غ ) and  “q”( ق ) [also “ ‘a” (ع ) – but that is another story] were absent. In an attempt to write Urdu words in Nagri, the script was adapted by the addition of dots. But now, as you all note, these are disappearing.  I was however wondering about one letter though. Did  “zh”( ژ ) ever make it to the modified Nagri? Urdu has rather few words beginning with it and they are all from Farsi.  Examples are:  ژاژ  (zhaazh)  =  nonsense;   ژرف (zharf) = deep, penetrating;  ژرف نگاہ  (zharf nigaah) =  perspicacious;  ژندگی  (zhandagee) = antiquity;  ژولیدہ  = entangled, matted, confused;  ژولیدہ بیانی  = confused / convoluted speech;  ژیاں  = ferocious, fierce;  and of course ژالہ  = hail;  which you find in every Urdu “qaa’idah”.


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## Illuminatus

I guess the sound you mention is the sound in pleasure, or the French _Je_.

In that case, no, it does not even have any Nagari equivalent. None of the Indian languages I am aware of seem to have this sound. At least not Hindi, Marathi, Kannada, Bengali, Tamil (and I am pretty sure others don't have it either)

Infact, many people can't pronounce this sound, which is understandable, and many refuse to accept that this is a sound different from what they have in their languages (which is downright irritating)


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## panjabigator

Illuminatus, I thought the Marathi J was a close approximation to the persian zh.  I had previously been instructed that in Marathi, the ज sounds like a "zh" and the झ like "z."

As for <zyaadaa> being represented as <jyaadaa>, not everyone does this.  I know plenty of people who distinguish a "j" and "z" sound, and though the <z> phoneme may not traditionally exist in Hindi, it certainly does now.  That said, I must admit that in my house, <zyaadaa> is without exception, <jyaadaa>.

Faylasoof, I always enjoy your posts because of the vocabulary you bring.  All these phrases I was unaware of; I know look forward to mastering and using them to pepper my Urdu.  Could you please supply a sentence for the following examples so I can see how to contextualize them?



> بغلیں بجانا [baghalein bajaanaa] = to be overjoyed / elated بغلیں جھانكنا [baghalein jhaaNkaa] = to feel embarassed / ashamed بغلی دشمن [baghalee dushman] = a hidden enemy, fifth columnist





> اژ (zhaazh) = nonsense; ژرف (zharf) = deep, penetrating; ژرف نگاہ (zharf nigaah) = perspicacious; ژندگی (zhandagee) = antiquity; ژولیدہ = entangled, matted, confused; ژولیدہ بیانی = confused / convoluted speech; ژیاں = ferocious, fierce; and of course ژالہ = hail; which you find in every Urdu “qaa’idah”.


Wonderful words!


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## Illuminatus

Well I am not exactly sure of the Persian zh, but if you mean the same as pleasure/French je, then I am pretty confident it doesn't exist in Marathi. But, we do have a whole lot of similar J/JH/Z/ZH sounds

In Marathi, the letter ज can either have the sound as in Judge, or a more dental dental version of the z as in zebra. As if, you scrape the tongue against the teeth while saying z. The letter झ is used to represent z as in zebra and another JH


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## Faylasoof

Sorry I couldn’t get back to you yesterday. 

Many thanks for the kind words, panjabigator. baRi nawaazish hai aur mai_N_ aap ko bahut mamnoon o mutashakkir hoo_N_!!

At times it appears as a lone fight to revive usage of words few now a days recall. It would be especially pleasing if people like you all start using them. After all we do not wish to leave these words preserved just on the printed page. As you say, they pepper up the language. So here they are: 


kal is shahir mein khoob zoordaar / zoor ki zhaalah baari hui
Yesterday there was severe hail in this city.

uski shajaa’at o quwwat ka kya kahnaa. woh to mithl-e-sher-e-zhiyaaN hai
What can we say about his bravery and strength. He is like a ferocious lion.

aajkal ke hamaare siyaasatdaanooN ko zholeedah bayaani ka mazaa lag gayaa hai!
Our politicians of today / Our present-day politicians have acquired the taste of convoluted speech.

Zholeedah fikr o sooch nihaayati mudhir hai
Confused thinking is very harmful

Or 

mere baal har waqt uljhe o zholeedah rahte haiN
My hair is always dishevelled

meraa libaas / kapRe kohun o zhandah hai / hain
My attire is / clothes are old and threadbare.

woh shakhs hameshah zhandahpoosh nazar aataa hai
That person always appears wearing threadbare clothes

aap to bahut hee zharf nigaah thaabit hue
You proved to be very perspicacious

is musannif ne apnee zharf nigaahi se kaam liya hai
This author / writer has used his perspicacity 

meraa paRosee bilkul zhaazhgo hai!
My neighbour talks absolute /complete prattle!
My neighbour talks absolute /complete nonsense!

[zhaazhgo hona = to talk nonsense / be a prattle]


jo shakhs zaahirdaari kare woh dar asl munaafiq o baghali dushman hai 
Anyone feigning sincerity is in fact / is actually a hypocrite and a hidden foe.

dauraan-e-jang ham sab ko sab se ziyaadah baghali dushman se khatrah rehtaa hai
During war / In war time the biggest danger we face / are faced with is from a fifth columnist / the foe within.

jab meine usko uski ghalatee ka thuboot diya to woh babhleiN jhaaNkne lagaa 
He felt embarrassed / ashamed when I pointed out / proved his mistake.

khoshee ki intihaa itni thee keh log bahgalein bajaane lage
koshee ke maare log bahgalein bajaane lage
People were so happy that they went hopping mad.


I’ve raced thru’ the above. If you feel that is something not quite clear then please do not hesitate to say so…. and forgive the ‘typos’, if any

Ciao


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## Faylasoof

Hello panjabigator,  Just a small correction. Discovered a ‘typo”!   Please read “zhaazhgo hona” as “to talk nonsense / be a prattler”.   I missed the “r”!   Also, in the sentence for &quot;baghalein jhaaNknaa&quot;, it should of course be &quot;... woh baghalein jhaaNkne lagaa&quot;, and not what you see.  There may be other typos too. I did this earlier today at work when I was supposed to be doing something else.  Ciao


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## panjabigator

<mai.n is javāb ke liye manūn o mutashkhir hū.n.  mustaqbil me.n āp ko zarūr is bāre me.n aur savālāt pūchhū.ngā>


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## BP.

Faylasoof, in post 9 the character written looks like 'zay' but you seem to be using  it to spell words that begin with a 'ray with 3 dots above'. Or is it that the script on this site puts the 3 dots so close they appear as one? Or my eyesight is failing!


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## Illuminatus

There are three dots. Use Ctrl + '+' to Zoom in.

The letter Fayla wrote is ژ


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## Faylasoof

No, it is the letter <zhay> as in <zhaalah> = hail (stones) = <oolay>

The best thing is to copy this post to WORDPAD and then enlarge! If you go to font size, say 10 or higher, you'll see the letter <zhay> really well. 

I do this all the time when I have trouble reading the extremely tiny letters.


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## BP.

Thank you both. I zoomed in and it read what you mentioned.

We actually have a town in the SW of my country spelt with the 'zh' - Zhob, where there's  lots of 'zhaala baari' in winters. BTW, yesterday was the first snowfall of the season here. The first real one of my life. It was wonderful.


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