# BCS: curds



## Encolpius

Hello, Czechs and Slovaks call it tvaroh, Poles twaróg, Russians творог, Slovenes skuta. I could not find any BCS expression? What do you call it? Or maybe it is not popular over there at all? Then why? Thanks a lot.


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## nexy

According to the Oxford English-Serbian Student's Dictionary:
*Curd* (also *curds*, pl.) a thick soft substance that forms when milk turns sour -* usireno mleko*. 

At first, I thought of *surutka* (*whey*) which is also related to *curds*:
*Whey* - the thin liquid that is left from sour milk after the solid parts (curds) have been removed - *surutka*.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Well, the Slovenian word *skuta*, mentioned by Encolpius, usually refers to *cottage cheese*. *Sirotka*, on the other hand, is whey.


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## nexy

I think that *sirotka* in Slovenian and *surutka/sirutka* in BCS are the same thing (*whey* in English).

When I saw  bowl of Cottage_cheese I thought of *Kajmak*, but I am not sure that is what *curd* refers to. I don't know much about dairy products, so anyone who can explain it better is welcome to help.

Definition of Kajmak:
http://www.chineseop.com/cuisine/what-is-kajmak-.html


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## slavic_one

Skuta exists in Croatia, too. It's kind of cheese.
Kajmak is more like cream (smetana (CZ), сметана (RU)).


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## TriglavNationalPark

nexy said:


> I think that *sirotka* in Slovenian and *surutka/sirutka* in BCS are the same thing (*whey* in English).
> 
> When I saw bowl of Cottage_cheese I thought of *Kajmak*, but I am not sure that is what *curd* refers to. I don't know much about dairy products, so anyone who can explain it better is welcome to help.
> 
> Definition of *Kajmak*:
> http://www.chineseop.com/cuisine/what-is-kajmak-.html


 
*Kajmak* is something else; it's "native" to the former Ottoman Empire and known by that name (or a close variation) wherever it's available.

As far as I know, milk *curds* are what *cottage cheese* is made from (but they also have other uses).


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## Encolpius

slavic_one said:


> Skuta exists in Croatia, too. It's kind of cheese.
> Kajmak is more like cream (smetana (CZ), сметана (RU)).



Since you might speak some Czech, too, then you might know what the *Czech tvaroh *is. (?) Is that *skuta*? Tvaroh is very popular in Prague.


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## Duya

We commonly call it just "mladi sir" (young, i.e. fresh cheese):

http://images.google.com/images?q=Mladi+sir

According to Wikipedia, a more specific type of curd (tvaroh) is in English called quark, (and the word is ultimately of Slavic origin).


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## Awwal12

Hm... quark, curds and cottage cheese are translated into Russian as one word (as Encolpius mentioned, it is тв*о*рог / твор*о*г).


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## Encolpius

Duya said:


> We commonly call it just "mladi sir" (young, i.e. fresh cheese):
> 
> http://images.google.com/images?q=Mladi+sir
> 
> According to Wikipedia, a more specific type of curd (tvaroh) is in English called quark, (and the word is ultimately of Slavic origin).



Yes, Germans call it Quark, and it is not the same as cottage cheese.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Encolpius said:


> Yes, Germans call it Quark, and it is not the same as cottage cheese.


 
I see. Quark is virtually unknown in the United States, so I automatically refer to *skuta* as "cottage cheese," but it's likely that "quark" is the more appropriate translation.


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## slavic_one

Encolpius said:


> Since you might speak some Czech, too, then you might know what the *Czech tvaroh *is. (?) Is that *skuta*? Tvaroh is very popular in Prague.



I know what is tvaroh, I've eaten it, but I won't say it's skuta (at least the one I've eaten). Tvaroh is maybe more similar to chees we call "kravlji" or "svježi", but also not exactly the same thing.


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## sokol

We've already had a BCS thread about dairy products where the term kajmak is explained.  (And yes, kajmak is not cottage cheese; it is made from cream - and a speciality for which there is probably no word in northern and western Slavic languages.)


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## Encolpius

Now I am starting to think even the Austrian Topfen is not "tvaroh".


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## DenisBiH

Encolpius said:


> Now I am starting to think even the Austrian Topfen is not "tvaroh".




I guess food can be quite tricky in terms of translating. Judging from the thread that sokol linked to, unless there is a concerted effort to invent/coin a word/phrase for a foreign food item, it will most probably have to be borrowed.

Btw, I'm now trying to imagine buying a product labeled "Domaći viping krim". I can even see it mutating into "vipinkrim" and "vipikrim".


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## sokol

Duya said:


> According to Wikipedia, a more specific type of curd (tvaroh) is in English called quark, (and the word is ultimately of Slavic origin).


Yes, "Quark" is a German loan in English, and in German it is a Sorbian (that is of course, Slavic) loan. In Austria however we use Topfen:


Encolpius said:


> Now I am starting to think even the Austrian Topfen is not "tvaroh".


But I don't think that there's any basic difference in the production process, between _Topfen_ and _Quark_ - and I think both are the same as _tvarog_: you make _Topfen/Quark_ by letting milk go sour (in dairy industry cultivar bacteria are used - they have to as they use pasteurised milk where natural bacteria are killed).

To explain how this works, here's how we produced _Topfen_ at home:

- Use non-pasteurised milk and let it go sour (by just leaving it alone, but it goes faster if you put it in a warm - but not hot - place);
- when it is sour put it in a place where it is very warm but not hot (I think about 35-40 degrees Celsius);
- when the sour milk gets all lumpy and runny your _Topfen_ is ready; you just need to remove the water and prepare the "lumpy stuff" = _Topfen_.

This is "raw Topfen", and if you make it at home like that it is sold as either "Hüttenkäse" or "Cottage cheese" (the English term is also used for this, at least in Austria!*).
*) Originally we used the same word for home-made _Topfen_ and industrial _Topfen_ - which is most likely the reason why the English term has been introduced.

Technically, there is no difference between "Topfen" and "Cottage cheese" - the production process is the same; only the product called "Cottage cheese" (or which I would just call "home-made Topfen") is "rougher" or "grainier" or "more crude" or whatever the appropriate term would be, while industrial "Topfen" usually is mashed and very fine in consistency.
Or should I say "used to be" , as of course industrial "Topfen" nowadays also is produced in the "grainier" version - and marketed as "Cottage cheese".

Decide for yourself, but I think this product is the same as Slovene "skuta" and Czech "tvaroh".
(And maybe you also differentiate between the "fine consistency" thing and the "grainy thing" = "cottage cheese"?)


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## Adnyre

Curiously, there's no special word for 'curds' or 'cottage cheese' in Ukrainian, it's just *сир* (syr). One may also call it *домашній сир* 'house cheese', much like in English.


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## Encolpius

I have always thought cottage cheese is the same as tvaroh/Topfen, but read soemthing in Wikipedia. It might be the same, but it says cottage cheese is drained but not pressed so some whey remains and the individual curds remain loose. Unfortunately I have not tasted cottage cheese, so cannot compare if they are really the same.


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## Selyd

In the Ukrainian language:
Молоко - Milk
Сир - Cheese
Сир - Cottage cheese
Молозиво - Cottage cheese from young milk
Вершки - Cream
Сметана - Sour cream
Сироватка - Whey
Масло - Butter
Сколотини - Sour cream = Butter +???Сколотини


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## Selyd

It is necessary still to add:
Каймак, кальмак – film after cooling on a surface of milk
Сиродій - Fresh milk, at once


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## Duya

In Serbia, two types of curds are generally distinguished. 

The "more traditional" one is usually called "mladi sir" or just "sir". It is soft but solid, and a bit jelly-like.

The other type is called "švapski sir", especially in Vojvodina, probably as a reference to Donauschwaben. (recipe) Alternative names are "sitni sir" or "svježi sir". As Sokol said, it is creamish and lumpy, and probably the same as Topfen and Tvaroh. The main difference in the process is that with "švapski", sour milk is chopped and stirred before draining, but with "mladi", it is left in piece. (According to Wikipedia, for German quark the milk is stirred often, so that the end result is creamy without major lumps).

"Švapski" is generaly used for pies and fillings, while "mladi" is rather consumed on its own, as a condiment, salad or appetizer. 

Either variant can be salted and left to mature (in which case, you get drier cheese & stronger taste). Of course, it is no longer called "mladi" but "stari". See Sirene.


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## sokol

Encolpius said:


> I have always thought cottage cheese is the same as tvaroh/Topfen, but read soemthing in Wikipedia. It might be the same, but it says cottage cheese is drained but not pressed so some whey remains and the individual curds remain loose. Unfortunately I have not tasted cottage cheese, so cannot compare if they are really the same.


It is the same - except for _consistency_. 

As I explained above, when we were children (we had a small farm) we made our own "Topfen" and we even called it "Topfen", but it resembled what nowadays is marketed as "cottage cheese".
Of course, what is marketed as "cottage cheese" is not pressed (and thus mashed, to be very fine in consistency), but that's a minor difference as far as I am concerned. 

Taste of course is different as consistency also influences your taste buds; but technically, it is the same thing (same kind of fermentation process), while e. g. kajmak is something _different_, not subjected to the same fermentation process.


Duya said:


> The other type is called "švapski sir", especially in Vojvodina, probably as a reference to Donauschwaben. (recipe) Alternative names are "sitni sir" or "svježi sir". As Sokol said, it is creamish and lumpy, and probably the same as Topfen and Tvaroh. The main difference in the process is that with "švapski", sour milk is chopped and stirred before draining, but with "mladi", it is left in piece. (According to Wikipedia, for German quark the milk is stirred often, so that the end result is creamy without major lumps).


Well, the production process is similar - only that we didn't stir it at all but left it completely alone until it was fermented completely, only then the fermented milk was put on a sieve (with water running through while the "Topfen" stayed in the sieve), and _after_ that it was stirred.
But still your "švapski sir" should taste pretty much like our home-made "Topfen".
The fact that we only stirred it after it was separated from the water probably is responsible for the lumpy structure (while when you stir it while it's still fermenting it might become more creamy).


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## Bruno 1234

Zdravo gurmane!

just one question for people from both sides of the (historical) Jugo-Hungarian and Jugo-Romanian border:

according to all your commentaries, my sense of taste and a label of "Mileram  18% m.m. 400 g - zelene doline", what Slovenians call "kisla smentana", Croats call "kišelo vrhnje" and Serbians call "kišela pavlaka"  is the same product.

Is it the same dairy produce that Hungarians call "tejfől" and Romanians call  "smântâna"?

And, in Serbian,  what supplementary information gives us the adjective "sour"?  Is there any pavlaka that is not "kišela"?


Hvala lepo.   Köszönöm szépen.   Mulţumesc.




sokol said:


> It is the same - except for _consistency_.
> 
> As I explained above, when we were children (we had a small farm) we made our own "Topfen" and we even called it "Topfen", but it resembled what nowadays is marketed as "cottage cheese".
> Of course, what is marketed as "cottage cheese" is not pressed (and thus mashed, to be very fine in consistency), but that's a minor difference as far as I am concerned.
> 
> Taste of course is different as consistency also influences your taste buds; but technically, it is the same thing (same kind of fermentation process), while e. g. kajmak is something _different_, not subjected to the same fermentation process.
> 
> Well, the production process is similar - only that we didn't stir it at all but left it completely alone until it was fermented completely, only then the fermented milk was put on a sieve (with water running through while the "Topfen" stayed in the sieve), and _after_ that it was stirred.
> But still your "švapski sir" should taste pretty much like our home-made "Topfen".
> The fact that we only stirred it after it was separated from the water probably is responsible for the lumpy structure (while when you stir it while it's still fermenting it might become more creamy).


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## Duya

Bruno 1234 said:


> according to all your commentaries, my sense of taste and a label of "Mileram 18% m.m. 400 g - zelene doline", what Slovenians call "kisla smentana", Croats call "kišelo vrhnje" and Serbians call "kišela pavlaka" is the same product.
> 
> Is it the same dairy produce that Hungarians call "tejfől" and Romanians call  "smântâna"?



Yes, I think so. _Mileram_ is more a marketing term, used for ones with higher percentages of fat (except for greater thickness, I don't perceive any difference from regular _pavlaka_).



Bruno 1234 said:


> And, in Serbian,  what supplementary information gives us the adjective "sour"?  Is there any pavlaka that is not "kišela"?



_Slatka pavlaka_ (Sr) or _slatko vrhnje_ (Hr) is whipping cream. That includes the ones which are not actually sweet, i.e. used for sauces or soups.


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