# svinoï



## Paf le chien

Hello, you all slavic natives or learning people.

I just read an English book where a Russian native character uses to finish lot of his sentences by the interjection warn:?)  "svinoï" (sorry for spelling and use of roman alphabet, but that's all I have in the book and knows *nothing* about slavic languages nor Cyrillic alphabet).

I hope it is not a *really* bad word, but it sound (in the book) like a personal (? Russian ?) language habit.

Oh and I forgot (if it can be of any help), the storyline is supposedly in the far future.

I suppose it's a slang expression, and imagine (by looking in dictionaries) it would translate to something like "crap/crappy/shit/bastard". But that's really just a guess with the way it's used.

Could a natives enlight me on how to understand/interpret this interjection.

Thank you very much for your time,

PAF


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## Athaulf

The word means "pig" in most (all?) Slavic languages, and it's used as a basis for many colorful (and sometimes quite harsh) insults. You'll have to wait for a Russian native to explain its exact use in this context, though.


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## papillon

In Russian this would be an adjective свиной -- of a pig. To me this is a neutral word to describe things related to (or derived from) a pig. For example: pig skin -- свиная шкура (svinaya shkura).

I rarely hear this word used for insults in this particular form. More often it's:
свинья (svinya) - as in you're a pig!
свинcкое (svinskoe)
свинюка (sviniuka)
свинство (svinstvo  = ~ pighood ) - as in "What a _svinstvo_, I called you three times and you didn't return my call!"


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## Q-cumber

*Paf le chien*

I think the author of the book was about to describe a "Russian native character", without actually knowing how to to that. Nobody would finish his phrases by the word "svinoï". 

    Could you provide some sample phrases of this character?


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## Paf le chien

papillon said:


> I rarely hear this word used for insults in this particular form.



It's not (in this book) usually used as an _insult_, but as an _interjection_, like in :

"That damn thing won't work, just when I need it. _*свиной*_ !" or "I couldn't think this was _really_ possible.   _*свиной* _!"

Sounds to me like "_mess !_" or even "_bloody mess !_"

But she (the character) can also use it, I think, with its proper meaning, as in:

"She'd better thing of what she did when she married this   _*свиной* _!"...

Thank you all of you

PAF


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## Q-cumber

*Paf le chien*

All this makes no sense to me.


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## papillon

Although as you said



Paf le chien said:


> the storyline is supposedly in the far future



  ...I don't see by what mechanism this word would evolve into an interjection. But who knows.


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## Paf le chien

Q-cumber said:


> *Paf le chien*
> 
> All this makes no sense to me.



Well, if that doesn't make sense to you, then you were probably right : the author misunderstood something in Russian and wrongly use it...

As I said, it is supposed to be in the far future (SF) so I will no more try to get its exact meaning, but only what I feel from reading it 


Thank you all again for the time you spent for this, finally, non-question 

PAF


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## dnldnl

Is it always used with the "ой" ending? 

It may make a little bit more sense if it were something like the following: 
"That damn thing won't work, just when I need it. Свин*ья*!" 
"I couldn't think this was really possible. Свин*ья*!"

In such cases, the word "свинья" would be replacing a very vulgar Russian word "блядь" (bitch).

The endings in Russian is probably the hardest thing for foreigners to master. So if the author is not a native Russian speaker, he might have used the endings, such as "ой," incorrectly.


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## Paf le chien

dnldnl said:


> Is it always used with the "ой" ending?
> 
> It may make a little bit more sense if it were something like the following:
> "That damn thing won't work, just when I need it. Свин*ья*!"
> "I couldn't think this was really possible. Свин!"
> 
> In such cases, the word "свинья" would be replacing a very vulgar Russian word "блядь" (bitch).
> 
> The endings in Russian is probably the hardest thing for foreigners to master. So if the author is not a native Russian speaker, he might have used the endings, such as "ой," incorrectly.



It's surely that: she has much of a _very crude_ language in the book ! 

In fact, it is never written "ой" because the use, for the reader, of roman alphabet (which, I'm sure, can make a _huge_ differences).
But it is _always_ written "_Svinoï_ !"... which is very close to Svinoy' !

And no, the author is surely not (by his name) a Russian native.

(PS: how would you pronounce "Свин*ья*" and "*блядь*" in IPA ?)

Thank you, dnldnl


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## Q-cumber

*Paf le chien*

Свинья - something like svin'yah
Блядь - blyad' <means whore, prostitute, hooker, *not* bitch...bitch is сука sookha> Please be aware that the word "блядь" is extremely offensive and to be avoided by all means.


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## Paf le chien

Q-cumber said:


> *Paf le chien*
> 
> Свинья - something like svin'yah
> Блядь - blyad' <means whore, prostitute, hooker, *not* bitch...bitch is сука sookha> Please be aware that the word "блядь" is extremely offensive and to be avoided by all means.



Thank you for your help, Q-cumber.

I'll try to remember your reminder:  Блядь


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## dnldnl

I am sorry, I should've been more precise. The reason I translated it as "bitch" because it is one of the most universal cursing words in English. I mean, the literal translation of блядь would serve as a somewhat unusual way to curse in paf le chien's examples (e.g: "I couldn't think this was really possible. Whore!" ). But Q-cumbers explanation of its litteral meaning is absolutely correct.

Anyway, it does seem as the author took a curse word in her language, and through some obscure translation means, translated it as "свиной" into Russian.


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## Anatoli

Q-cumber said:


> ... *not* bitch...bitch is сука sookha>...



You don't need "kh" but just "k" to transliterate the word, as "kh" stands for the Russian "x". Just my 2 cents.


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## Q-cumber

Hi *Anatoli*! I was always bad with transliterations.   I used to think that "kh" stands for the Russian "x" only if used as a first letter.


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## palomnik

How old is the book, Paf? Is it something contemporary, or does it date from the nineteenth century?

In an older generation of Russian, Свинья was commonly used as a euphemism for "the devil", no doubt on the belief that if you mention the devil he will come, and as чёрт (devil) was also a common expletive a couple of generations ago - with about the force of "damn it!" in English - there might be some connection. I'm only guessing, though.

Incidentally, if you must refer to somebody as a "bitch" and you want to do it in Russian, стерва is a lot closer to the usual English meaning of _bitch _and syntactically closer to French _salaud _than сука, which is really extremely insulting and has sexual overtones, closer to _salope._


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## Paf le chien

I'm now pretty sure (after reading all of your _very interesting_ postings) that this damn "svinoï" is a bad transliteration of  "Свинья" (svin'yah), replacing  "блядь", which in fact would be probably _too_ _crude_ for a book (or for the character). 

All of this would explain everything to me.

dnldnl> this author is male : this is only one of its character who is female and has quite a crude talking

palomnik> No, the author is still alive (XXI th century) and American, but the story is supposed to take place in the XXVI th century


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## Kolan

Paf le chien said:


> "Свинья" (svin'yah), replacing  "блядь"


Pas vraiment, les deux termes ne sont pas du tout synonymes, dont le premier signifie une personne généralement sale ou qui ne nettoie jamais après elle-même, ou, encore, dans un sens figuré, de valeurs morales très inférieures.Tandis que le deuxième représente une pure salope sans aucune connotation à sa netteté extérieure si c'est le cas. Cependant, "блядь" peut sonner dans sa forme raccourcie warning:"бля") très couramment comme interjection dans les diverses conversations dans les rues, n'étant guère offensive mais toujours juron grossier.


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## Paf le chien

Kolan said:


> [...]Cependant, "блядь" peut sonner dans sa forme raccourcie warning:"бля") très couramment comme interjection dans les diverses conversations dans les rues, n'étant guère offensive mais toujours juron grossier.


 

Moi, j'avais finalement compris   « _*Свинья*_/_*свиной*_ » comme interjections du genre « cochonnerie ! », « saleté ! » ou encore, en parlant de quelqu'un, « espèce de/sale porc », qui était une sorte d'adoucissement de "_*блядь*_", vraiment trop vulgaire...

Mais là, je ressombre dans la confusion... ne connaissant rien du tout au langues slaves, ni au russe en particulier 

PS: sorry for English speaking readers...


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## Kolan

Paf le chien said:


> Moi, j'avais finalement compris   « _*Свинья*_/_*свиной*_ » comme interjections du genre « cochonnerie ! », « saleté ! » ou encore, en parlant de quelqu'un, « espèce de/sale porc »


_*Свинья! - *_bien oui, correct, "espèce de (sale) porc!", mais jamais _*свиной *_qui est, effectivement, un équivalent neutre pour "de porc", "porcine".


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## Kolan

Paf le chien said:


> une sorte d'adoucissement de "_*блядь*_", vraiment trop vulgaire...


Comme je vous l'ai dit, sûr, _full_ certain, qu'il n'y a aucune *salope* dans *свинья*. De plus, *salope* est, toutefois, une forme un peu moins forte que "_*блядь*_", pour les oreilles respectives.

Si vous êtes au courant, même un petit peu, de jurons québécois, la forme "_*бля-*_",correspond assez bien à _*-sti*_ (ostie, hostie, etc) québécois (un terme réligieux devenu juron grossier, comme les autres) qui s'emploie sans connotation sexiste dans le langage courant.


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## spamofilo

The book is called "Revelation Space" by Alastair Reynolds.


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