# התרעה vs. התראה



## chaya

Can anyone tell me the answer to the following*:*​Normally when a root ends in _ayin_ the noun also ends in _ayin. *BUT  the word le-hatriya *_ends in _ayin _but the noun ends in _aleph hay.   _Are there any other verbs that behave in this way?   I cannot find the answer in my grammar books.

CHAYA


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## Evyatar

Not exactly. You mean להתריע, am I right? If so, it has two suffixes. This noun can be ended both in _aleph hay and in ayin hay. however, the meanings of each word are a little bit different. התראה Is usually a warning that someone won't transgress the rules. When you say התרעה you mean to a notification about a problem or another foreseen warning and you want to draw their attention by this._
_Hope you realized. _


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## arbelyoni

chaya said:


> Can anyone tell me the answer to the following*:*​
> Normally when a root ends in _ayin_ the noun also ends in _ayin. *BUT the word le-hatriya *_ends in _ayin _but the noun ends in _aleph hay. _Are there any other verbs that behave in this way? I cannot find the answer in my grammar books.
> 
> CHAYA


 
The word התראה comes from the word התרה (root: ת.ר.י), while התרעה comes from התריע (root: ת.ר.ע). Different roots, that's all.


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## chaya

thank you evy atar​ 


Can you give me examples (sentences?)

Are there any other _shorashim _that change like this? CHAYA​


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## Evyatar

First, an example: הוא התריע בפניהם שמלחה עומדת לפרוץ. 
He warned (cautioned) in front of them that a war is about to ocuur. Here, that man explains that there is a problem, there is a war soon, he wants them to be ready and aware to it.

הוא התריע את האנשים שמי שידבר עכשיו ייצא מהאולם.

He warned those people that a person who speaks now would get out of the theater. 
Here, you better use the noun with aleph. It isn't exactly a crime but you should use here the noun התראה, because it is a situation of a condition. Nevertheless, when people want to express a warning like this they usually use another verb: להזהיר. (or לאזהיר.)

Right now I don't have another examples of this kind, but if I have an example, I'll write here.


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## ahshav

Evyatar said:


> הוא התריע את האנשים שמי שידבר עכשיו ייצא מהאולם.



I'm pretty sure that's not right. If you want to say that you would have to say "הוא התריע בפני...". Another preposition that can be used is "על," e.g., "הוא התריע על הבעיות"

The root of התראה is תר"ה, not a יו"ד for the final letter. Also, the נסתר, sing. form (*He *did it) of the root תר"ה is התרה, very different from תר"ע, which is התריע.


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## Evyatar

I'm not shut about it but maybe you're right, even I still think there is a possibility to say such a sentence.


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## dinji

Arbelyoni is right in every respect. Two different roots, the resemblance in meaning and form is confusing but is a mere coincidence.

The word התרה (hitra) really has the root: ת.ר.י (with a yod as third radical), while התריע (hitria) comes from the root: ת.ר.ע). 

All verbs with lots of mute letters hei ה at the end, such as _paná(h)_ 'turn' or _'asá(h)_ 'do' really has a _yod_ as their third radical. The true radical becomes visible in first and second person past tense _paníti, asíta, asínu, pnitém_, and also in hif'il: _hifnéiti, he'eséita, he'esínu, hifneitém_ etc. With these roots any _hei_ at the end was mute even in classical times. 

Roots with a true _hei_ as their third radical are rare and carry the shape of _gavahti_ 'I was tall' and _higbiah_ 'he made tall'.


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## origumi

dinji said:


> The word התרה (hitra) really has the root: ת.ר.י (with a yod as third radical)


 
The way this issue is being explained in Israeli schools - the גזרה is נל"ה/נל"י - that is, both תרה and תרי are correct.



> Roots with a true _hei_ as their third radical are rare and carry the shape of _gavahti_ 'I was tall' and _higbiah_ 'he made tall'.


 
Other are נגה, כמה, תמה, מהמה. This is the complete list (again, according to Hebrew lessons in Israel).


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## chaya

Thank you all for your help.   You may be interested to know that this word caught my attention as I wondered if it was correct or  a typo.  It is from the speech given by Ehud Olmert on December 27 2008 .  (It is still on line on his official web site).   He said..."b-maarechut hit-ra-a"  (heh, tav, resh, ayin, heh).....

Would this be translated as _alarm or warning...?_


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## origumi

*התרעה* is an alarm or warning against potential threat. For example - radar system that alerts when hostile army is approaching is מערכת התרעה.

*התראה* is also a warning, but of another kind. It's a notice in advance that an action is about to be taken. For example - a letter sent by the bank discussing confiscation of some property when one fails to pay the mortgage fees on time is מכתב התראה.


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## chaya

Ayin or Aleph?  Thank you Origumi.


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## origumi

Let me retry:



> *התרעה* (`ayin) is an alarm or warning against potential threat. For example - radar system that alerts when hostile army is approaching is מערכת התרעה.
> 
> *התראה* (aleph) is also a warning, but of another kind. It's a notice in advance that an action is about to be taken. For example - a letter sent by the bank discussing confiscation of some property when one fails to pay the mortgage fees on time is מכתב התראה.


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## Ali Smith

dinji said:


> Arbelyoni is right in every respect. Two different roots, the resemblance in meaning and form is confusing but is a mere coincidence.
> 
> The word התרה (hitra) really has the root: ת.ר.י (with a yod as third radical), while התריע (hitria) comes from the root: ת.ר.ע).
> 
> All verbs with lots of mute letters hei ה at the end, such as _paná(h)_ 'turn' or _'asá(h)_ 'do' really has a _yod_ as their third radical. The true radical becomes visible in first and second person past tense _paníti, asíta, asínu, pnitém_, and also in hif'il: _hifnéiti, he'eséita, he'esínu, hifneitém_ etc. With these roots any _hei_ at the end was mute even in classical times.
> 
> Roots with a true _hei_ as their third radical are rare and carry the shape of _gavahti_ 'I was tall' and _higbiah_ 'he made tall'.


If the root letters of התראה are ת ר י, where did the א come from? Is this a verbal noun from the hif'il binyan, like הזמנה is from להזמין 'to determine'?


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## Drink

In Mishnaic Hebrew, there were some interchanges between י and א.

Word-final א after a historically long vowel often became י, for example, מבוא > מבוי and נשוא > נשוי (but derived forms remained מבואות and נשואה). And a non-doubled י preceded by an a-vowel and followed by a full vowel often became א, for example, התריה > התראה or הודיה > הודאה, and חציים > חצאים (with some additional paradigm shifts as well, you get מקואות and קנוהו > קנאוהו).


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## Ali Smith

Thanks, but a historically vowel? What do you mean?


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## Drink

Ali Smith said:


> Thanks, but a historically vowel? What do you mean?


Oops. Fixed the typo. It was supposed to say "historically long vowel".


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