# Forgiven



## The_Predator

Hi,
I was wondering if someone maybe could help me. I want to have a tattoo that says "forgiven" in Chinese and in a way of "I am forgiven" or "I was forgiven". I found something but I don't know if it really says "forgiven". This is the link: img207.imageshack.us/img207/434/265644ow1.png
Maybe someone can help me.

Thanks in advance!


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## kkmp

諒 is the right character meaning "to forgive". However, in Chinese, since there is no indication of active and passive voices, this single character does not tell people whether you forgive others or you are forgiven by others.

Meanwhile, 諒 is one of the three characters (righteousness, tolerance and good knowledge) of  good friends  that Confucius advocated. （孔子曰：“益者三友，損者三友：友直，友諒，友多聞，益矣；友便辟，友善柔，友便佞，損矣。”《論語·季氏篇》）


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## coconutpalm

Or 恕？
I think it's more cool.


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## The_Predator

Thank you both so much for taking the time to anwser my question



coconutpalm said:


> Or 恕？
> I think it's more cool.


What do you really mean with that it's more cool? 



kkmp said:


> 諒 is the right character meaning "to forgive". However, in Chinese, since there is no indication of active and passive voices, this single character does not tell people whether you forgive others or you are forgiven by others.


Are there characters so that people can see that I'm the one who is forgiven?

Once again thank you both so much


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## rainBELL

?   really hard to translate in one word..  

and most of them conveys an active voice than a passive one 

well u can use 忏悔 有罪 赎罪 赎 赦 罪 or such etc. to imply that u r confessing ur sins

and u know, u should not be the one who determines ur own exemption  ;-P


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## kkmp

The_Predator said:


> Are there characters so that people can see that I'm the one who is forgiven?



We need at least two characters to say "be forgiven" and I come up with three versions finally.

Classic: 見宥.
Modern: 被恕.
Post-modern: 諒仔.

見 and 被 mean passive voices. 宥, 恕 and 諒 mean "to forgive". 仔 means "kid“.


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## coconutpalm

The_Predator said:


> What do you really mean with that it's more cool?


Sorry that I didn't explain myself yesterday.
Between these two words, 恕shu4 goes further than 谅liang4. There are two words: 宽恕 and 谅解. In my opinion, the difference is hidden in them. 
Because of 宽（宽容，tolerance), so 恕; Because of 解（理解，了解，understanding), therefore 谅.
Or, 谅 seems more secular.
Anyway, it's my own feeling. Other people might disagree.


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## The_Predator

Thank you for the response. You all helped me a lot. I'm not really sure which one I'm going to use, but I think it's the one kkmp said: 


kkmp said:


> Modern: 被恕.


I was wondering if you maybe have a picture or something like that, where the characters are bigger? So that I can see the characters better. It's for a tattoo and I want to make sure that I have them right.

Again thank you very much!


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## kkmp

The_Predator said:


> Thank you for the response. You all helped me a lot. I'm not really sure which one I'm going to use, but I think it's the one kkmp said:
> 
> I was wondering if you maybe have a picture or something like that, where the characters are bigger? So that I can see the characters better. It's for a tattoo and I want to make sure that I have them right.
> 
> Again thank you very much!



There you go.


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## The_Predator

kkmp said:


> There you go.


Thanks a lot!


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## kareno999

kkmp said:


> There you go.


It's not even a word!


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## The_Predator

kareno999 said:


> It's not even a word!


Really?


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## coconutpalm

Yes, I've never heard this word or phrase "被恕". " 被饶恕”is possible.


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## The_Predator

coconutpalm said:


> Yes, I've never heard this word or phrase "被恕". " 被饶恕”is possible.


Thank you for telling me! I'm sorry, but I'm kind of confussed right now. If I'm correct in your opinion this is right:


coconutpalm said:


> Or 恕？
> I think it's more cool.


 
There is also a woman from my dad's work, she's Chinese and I asked her what she thought was correct. She told me this: img178.imageshack.us/img178/9397/forgiven26mw4.png. The picture is not very clear, because she draw it. I would like to hear some thoughts about those characters. Thank you!


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## coconutpalm

Ah, 原谅, yes, it's equivalent with "forgive" AND 谅, as in your first picture.
By far, you would have noticed that none of us natives can think of a single character or a word which has independent meaning that is equivalent with "forgiven". I'm not a linguist, but I can be sure on this matter that there is no such a character or word.
In your first post, you said you want a tattoo, which is why we all try to think of one SINGLE character, because it seems more suitable for your specific requirement.
In this case, I think 恕 is the best, and 谅 is acceptable. Of course, everybody has his/her own taste. 
Hope it helps.


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## The_Predator

coconutpalm said:


> Ah, 原谅, yes, it's equivalent with "forgive" AND 谅, as in your first picture.
> By far, you would have noticed that none of us natives can think of a single character or a word which has independent meaning that is equivalent with "forgiven". I'm not a linguist, but I can be sure on this matter that there is no such a character or word.
> In your first post, you said you want a tattoo, which is why we all try to think of one SINGLE character, because it seems more suitable for your specific requirement.
> In this case, I think 恕 is the best, and 谅 is acceptable. Of course, everybody has his/her own taste.
> Hope it helps.


Thank you so much for making things clear. Yes, I have notice that there probably is no word which has independent meaning that is equivalent with "forgiven" (Sorry that I use your words, but I don't know how to describe it else). I really appreciate that you all are trying to help me and you really helped me a lot!

Coconutpalm, I was wondering if you maybe have a bigger picture of the characters 恕 and 谅, so that I can see them better. Only if it's not a problem. Again thank you.


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## coconutpalm

I asked my friend to write these two characters and took two pictures of them. My own handwriting is horrible......


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## The_Predator

coconutpalm said:


> I asked my friend to write these two characters and took two pictures of them. My own handwriting is horrible......


Thank you so much, also to your friend how wrote them down!


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## rainBELL

i personally prefer 赎 or 赦 better

被恕 is possible, but only the religion fanatics could possibly understand the correlation between the word and its religious connotation.. i mean if u walk on the street and show people 被恕，people could understand that but that's it..


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## The_Predator

rainBELL said:


> i personally prefer 赎 or 赦 better
> 
> 被恕 is possible, but only the religion fanatics could possibly understand the correlation between the word and its religious connotation.. i mean if u walk on the street and show people 被恕，people could understand that but that's it..


So you think that most people understand 赎 or 赦 better?


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## On Retrouve a Paris

The_Predator said:


> So you think that most people understand 赎 or 赦 better?



I see many possible options, 恕，谅，赎, perhaps you could let us know why you want to use "forgive me" so that we know which one suits you best?


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## The_Predator

On Retrouve a Paris said:


> I see many possible options, 恕，谅，赎, perhaps you could let us know why you want to use "forgive me" so that we know which one suits you best?


About 2 or 3 years ago I was going to a very hard time. I've made a lot of big mistakes and I hurt some people that were very close to me. 
About 1½ years ago I started believing in God. He helped me a lot and he still does. I really believe that God helped me to become a better person. He has forgiven me for what I've done. Also people that I've hurt have forgiven me, thankfully 
That's why I want to have a tattoo of a cross with the chinese word(s) for "forgiven". 



rainBELL said:


> ? really hard to translate in one word..
> 
> and most of them conveys an active voice than a passive one
> 
> well u can use 忏悔 有罪 赎罪 赎 赦 罪 or such etc. to imply that u r confessing ur sins
> 
> and u know, u should not be the one who determines ur own exemption ;-P


I know that I'm not the one who should determine my own exemption, but I really believe that God has forgiven me and gave me a second chance to live


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## coconutpalm

赦is to make an official announcement that some prisoner(s) is(are) forgiven and sent out of prison as a special favor.
忏悔means that you regret what you've done.
赎罪means you do something to repay or make up for what you've done.
恕is to forgive (the active, not the passive).
As for "forgiven", sorry that I can't think of any.

However, since your religion's essence is to forgive, and you have luckily been forgiven by you God and your friends, isn't it a good idea to make a tattoo that manifests that you hold this to be your guideline? To forgive is better than to remember eternally that you've been forgiven, in my opinion. If you agree with me, I would recommend 恕 or 谅.
If you hold that you're a sinner, according to your religion, and keep it always in mind that you should confess and regret your wrongdoings, 忏is the word, but please note that it has little, if not nothing, to do with correct your wrongdoings.

Cheers!


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## The_Predator

coconutpalm said:


> However, since your religion's essence is to forgive, and you have luckily been forgiven by you God and your friends, isn't it a good idea to make a tattoo that manifests that you hold this to be your guideline? To forgive is better than to remember eternally that you've been forgiven, in my opinion. If you agree with me, I would recommend 恕 or 谅.


I never really thought about that idea, but I like it. I think it's a very good idea. I definitely agree with you, that it's better to remember that you should forgive others, than to remember that you've been forgiven. If 恕 and 谅 are the ones who you would recommend. I probably go with 恕, for some reason I like that one. 
Thank you very much! God bless you!


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## On Retrouve a Paris

The_Predator said:


> I never really thought about that idea, but I like it. I think it's a very good idea. I definitely agree with you, that it's better to remember that you should forgive others, than to remember that you've been forgiven. If 恕 and 谅 are the ones who you would recommend. I probably go with 恕, for some reason I like that one.
> Thank you very much! God bless you!



Bingo!  恕 - a perfect choice


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## rainBELL

The_Predator said:


> About 2 or 3 years ago I was going to a very hard time. I've made a lot of big mistakes and I hurt some people that were very close to me.
> About 1½ years ago I started believing in God. He helped me a lot and he still does. I really believe that God helped me to become a better person. He has forgiven me for what I've done. Also people that I've hurt have forgiven me, thankfully
> That's why I want to have a tattoo of a cross with the chinese word(s) for "forgiven".
> 
> 
> I know that I'm not the one who should determine my own exemption, but I really believe that God has forgiven me and gave me a second chance to live


 

*I*n that case, 恕 sounds better~ (被恕 still sounds weird to me)

*A*ll the others sound like *yo*u've committed some unforgivable crimes. 
*A*nd some solemn condescension was bestowed from God to you.
*B*ut *yo*u got a warm story there, esp.*especially* people around *yo*u have forgiven you,
 in that case 赦 or 赎 sounds too serious..

恕 is composed of 如 and 心，which could also mean (approxim.approximately) :
follow your heart, as you wish, or peaceful will, the unity of one and universe (maybe God), and some other zen stuff, *yo*u know. 

*I*t just seems like we don't care about the passive or active voice anymore, lol (somehow the vagueness of the voice appears frequently in *C*hinese)


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## samanthalee

When 恕 is used in 宽恕, it means _forgive_. But on its own, it mostly means _excuse_.
For example: 恕我直言 (Pardon my frankness), where _pardon_ is used in the sense of _excuse_.
恕 in its older form also means _fairness_ or "Do not ask of others what you're unable to do yourself" and had been used by Confucius together with "Do not do unto others what you won't want done unto yourself" when a pupil asked him for a phrase that can be the guidance of his whole life.
Would The_Predator consider tattooing 2 characters 宽恕 instead of one 恕?


Just out of curiosity, would anyone think 宥 is appropriate? I've looked up an English-Chinese dictionary and 宥  is given as a word that means _forgive_ and "_treat with leniency_".


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## The_Predator

samanthalee said:


> When 恕 is used in 宽恕, it means _forgive_. But on its own, it mostly means _excuse_.
> For example: 恕我直言 (Pardon my frankness), where _pardon_ is used in the sense of _excuse_.
> 恕 in its older form also means _fairness_ or "Do not ask of others what you're unable to do yourself" and had been used by Confucius together with "Do not do unto others what you won't want done unto yourself" when a pupil asked him for a phrase that can be the guidance of his whole life.
> Would The_Predator consider tattooing 2 characters 宽恕 instead of one 恕?
> 
> 
> Just out of curiosity, would anyone think 宥 is appropriate? I've looked up an English-Chinese dictionary and 宥 is given as a word that means _forgive_ and "_treat with leniency_".


I would definitely consider 2 characters. Especially when those 2 characters are more closely to the meaning I'm looking for, than just 1. 

Does anybody else also prefer 宽恕 instead of 恕?
Thank you!


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## On Retrouve a Paris

My suggestion you shall go with  恕only. As someone suggested above, which is also what I thought before, the way the charater is composed is very good, it is by 如and 心， which means all what you do now is according to your heart and you feel no shame of it since this is yourself. God will guide you to do all what is right since now you truely believe in god. 

宥: thanks for samanthalee who has digged out this treasure, but honestly, it is a word that is really rare and most of the Mardarin-speaker may not understand what you try to express.


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## coconutpalm

宥is a really good choice. It means "a large house holding a lot of people."
恕means 如心, following your free will ,what your heart guides you.
       according to Onlion Xinhua Dictionary.
However, I must disagree on the point that 宽恕 means "forgive" more than 恕 does. In my opinion, a single 恕 is more powerful, and two characters seem especially redundant if you're looking for a tattoo.


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## The_Predator

I think almost everyboy agrees with 恕, so that's the one it's going to be! 
Thank you all for anwsering my question and making time for me. God bless you.


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## The_Predator

I have one question left. My mother wants to know what 恕 means. How can I explain it to her in maybe 1 or 2 sentences?


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## coconutpalm

To forgive as your heart guides you.


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## The_Predator

Thank you!


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