# という点で変わらない



## Kuma777

I'm having a little trouble with the grammar structure ...という点で変わりません。I was told ...という点で同じです and ...という点で似ています are similar but was unsure how to correct translate 変わりません when used in this structure.

For example for this sentence,

イギリスの銀行も、日本の銀行も、お金を預けたり、下ろしたりできると言う点で変わらないが、色々な点でそれぞれの特徴がある。

Is this ok:

Both English banks and Japanese banks are similar (aren't different?) in that you can deposit and withdraw money but there's various unique characteristics (for each?).

I've paraphrased a lot but my main concern is with ...という点で変わりません and how that would be translated into English.

Thanks for your help.


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## Dheara

> A という点で変わりません


I think you could translate it as:
There is nothing different/changed under the aspect A
Anyway, in this case, 点 can also be translated as "aspect"

like in 
aspect= part; feature; phase: That is the aspect of the problem that interests me most.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
How about the direct translation of "in the point that"?
Is it unnatural?

_Both English banks and Japanese banks are similar in the point that you can deposit......._


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## Dheara

Look at this page:
http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=点&enc=UTF-8&stype=1&dtype=3&dname=2ss

［４］【問題点,観点】a point;（見地）a viewpoint, a standpoint;（様相）an aspect;（箇所,細目）a respect;（方面）a way.

	・	多くの点で
in many respects.

	・	その点で彼は間違っていた
On that point [In that respect] he was mistaken.

	・	私たちはその問題を純粋科学の点（＝観点）から議論した
We discussed the question from a viewpoint [a standpoint] of pure science.

	・	あらゆる点からその問題を考えると,この方法が最善のようだ
If we consider the problem from every aspect [（角度）angle], this method seems to be the best.


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## Dheara

Wishfull, my English is not better than yours, but "in the point that" doesn't sound unnatural to me... 
In my language, we use the word "aspect", but the English meaning is not quite the same... I think "respect" is a more appropriate term... like "in this respect..."


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## Wishfull

Hi, Dheara
To be honest with you, I don't know which is better.
My English is poor, as you know.....
And I can understand your point.

///////
In my language, we use the word "という点で", "という観点からは", "との見地に立つと". I just thought that "という点で" is the simplest expression than others.
So I thought the simplest English might be suitable in this context.
I thought "aspect" "respect" might be more difficult words than "point", because I learned them later.
So I thought if "in the point that" would be natural English expression, that would be suitable in this context.

I think the OP;Kuma777 will know the most proper one because he is a native-English speaker.

edit; I googled "in the point that" and hit a lot of websites. So I think it not so bad.
But I still wonder it is suitable here or not.


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## RomanticBoy

Hi there.

"English and Japanese banks are similar *in the point* that they both offer deposit and withdrawal facilities..." doesn't sound bad English to me. In fact, it is pretty good English I would say. There are other ways to say it, such as, for example, "in the way that", although this would seem a bit more casual.


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## Kuma777

First, thank you all for your quick posts,

I would have to agree with Romanticboy that a translation of 'in the point' for this sentence sounds pretty good in English.

But I also think there are times when as Dheara suggested 'aspect' will be a better fit, especially when you look at the translation on http://dic.yahoo.co.jp/dsearch?p=%E7...pe=3&dname=2ss the translation for という点 varies depending on the contents of the sentence.

The bit I'm still struggling at though is getting the nuance of 変わらない in this sentence, because it is in negative form so as Dheara says 'There is nothing different/changed' so maybe a more accurate translation would be:

There isn't a difference in English and Japanese banks in the point that you can... 

or 

English and Japanese banks aren't different in the point that....

Maybe my brain just isn't working at the moment but is there a natural way to get something like 'There is nothing different/changed'  into the sentence without making it sound strange? Or is it best to just stick with the translation of 'similar'?


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## Dheara

Kuma777 said:


> I'm having a little trouble with the grammar structure ...という点で変わりません。


You said you have a little trouble with という点で変わりません, so I translated only that part...
In many cases, is impossible to translate literally Japanese sentences (I think you already know that), so you have to find a translation that sounds right in your own language... 
So... 変わらない literally means "not changed", "not different", so it carries the idea that something is the same,similar...


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## Dheara

> イギリスの銀行も、日本の銀行も、お金を預けたり、下ろしたりできると言う点で変わらないが、色々な点でそれぞれの特徴がある。


I would translated as:
There is nothing different in the point that you can deposit and withdraw money from both English and Japanese banks, but there are some distinct features concerning the banking system (???) ... 

Anyway, I think that RomanticBoy's translation sounds better:


> "English and Japanese banks are similar in the point that they both offer deposit and withdrawal facilities..."


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## RomanticBoy

Buna! Thank you for your comment!

I agree with Dheara that the issue of translating positives and negatives depends on what sounds natural in your own language in the context. 

In English we can also use negatives to mean positives e.g. 'not bad' often has a connotation of 'good' or 'quite good', at least in British English, depending on the intonation. How you translate that into another language would depend on the language concerned and the context, I guess.

Moderator note:
Please continue the discussion about 'That film was not bad' in this new thread.


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