# You need to know who is the person who needs the more help



## pepito grillo el amo

Hi!
I heard this phrase from a native english speaker and although it sounds good to the ear I can't help but wonder if:
*"You need to know who the person who needs the more help is" *would be more correct grammatically speaking than the former...Or maybe both or them are correct.. please,if you are a native english speaker help me out! thanks in advance


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## FromPA

pepito grillo el amo said:


> *"You need to know who the person who needs the more help is" *


 
"the more help" is clearly wrong.  If there are only 2 people who need help, then you could say "who needs more help," but if there aree more that 2 people, you have to use "needs the most help." 

Personally, I would also change the word order:
*"You need to know who the person is who needs the most help"*
But this is just my personal preference.


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## FromPA

pepito grillo el amo said:


> *"You need to know who the person who needs the more help is" *


 
"the more help" is clearly wrong. If there are only 2 people who need help, then you could say "who needs more help," but if there are more that 2 people, you have to use "needs the most help." 

Personally, I would also change the word order:
*"You need to know who the person is who needs the most help"  or "...who needs help the most."*
But this is just my personal preference.


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## pepito grillo el amo

thanks frompa, but say there are two people severely injured and you have to choose who to assist first, in this context I would say in spanish:
"Tienes que saber que persona de las dos es la que necesita más ayuda"
which of the following phrases sounds more correct?out of two casualties)
"you have to know who is the person who needs the more help"
" you have to know who the person is who needs the more help
"you have to know who the person is who needs more help"
And if there were a lot of people injured,for instance 35,which phrase seems most approppiate?
" you have to know who is the person who needs the most help"
"you have to know who the person is who needs the most help"
" you have to know who is the person who needs most help"
" yoy have to know who the person is who needs most help"
I know this is coplicated but i don't want to be making the same mistakes in the future..( also,if you see any mistakes in this reply,please correct me)
thanks a lot


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## FromPA

pepito grillo el amo said:


> thanks frompa, but say there are two people severely injured and you have to choose who to assist first, in this context I would say in spanish:
> 
> I know this is complicated but i don't want to be making the same mistakes in the future..( also,if you see any mistakes in this reply,please correct me)
> thanks a lot


 
"Tienes que saber que persona de las dos es la que necesita más ayuda"
which of the following phrases sounds more correct?out of two casualties)
"you have to know who is the person who needs the more help"
" you have to know who the person is who needs the more help
"you have to know who the person is who needs more help"
And if there were a lot of people injured,for instance 35,which phrase seems most approppiate?
" you have to know who is the person is who needs the most help"
"you have to know who the person is who needs the most help"
" you have to know who is the person is who needs the most help"
" you have to know who the person is who needs the most help"


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## chileno

Also, 

You have to know who is the person that needs the most help.


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## FromPA

chileno said:


> Also,
> 
> You have to know who is the person is that needs the most help.


 
This is not a question, so you don't invert the  subject/verb word order.


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## pepito grillo el amo

please chileno,I need real help,if you are not sure of things don't say anything .if it hadn't been for frompa you would have confused me.


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## Cayenarama

I would probably say: 'You have to know which person needs the most help'.

Otherwise, if you are talking about two people; 'You have to know who needs the more help' or '...which of the two (people) needs the more help.'

(If you start mixing 'who' with 'which person' in the same sentence it can get a bit cluttered and any way they are synonymous).


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## FromPA

If that's true in BE, then I stand corrected, but it's not correct in AE.


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## pepito grillo el amo

*cayenarama* thanks for your answer_("if you are talking about two people; 'You have to know who needs the more help")_

but then *Frompa* was wrong,because he said "the more" is just incorrect_("the more help" is clearly wrong. If there are only 2 people who need help, then you could say "who needs more help," but if there are more that 2 people, you have to use "needs the most help_."")

Which of the two is right?
perhaps is the british way of saying it... i don't know if it's different in The States,because frompa is from the USA..
Can anyone solve this confusion?


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## Cayenarama

FromPA said:


> If that's true in BE, then I stand corrected, but it's not correct in AE.



Hi FromPA, 
I'm not sure that I understand but let me say that for me in British English your sentence:
'You need to know who the person is that needs the more help'
is perfectly correct. 
I just wanted to offer some other options which are also a little simpler.


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## Cayenarama

pepito grillo el amo said:


> *cayenarama* thanks for your answer_("if you are talking about two people; 'You have to know who needs the more help")_
> 
> but then *Frompa* was wrong,because he said "the more" is just incorrect_("the more help" is clearly wrong. If there are only 2 people who need help, then you could say "who needs more help," but if there are more that 2 people, you have to use "needs the most help_."")
> 
> Which of the two is right?
> perhaps is the british way of saying it... i don't know if it's different in The States,because frompa is from the USA..
> Can anyone solve this confusion?



I think most people in BE and AE would probably say 'most' whether there are two or more people but technically I am sure that I read somewhere that it should be the comparative form when there are only two people in question. 
That's the best I can offer I'm afraid.


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## FromPA

I continue to be surprised by differences between BE and AE.  In the US, I have never heard "who needs the more help."   I would never use "the" with the comparative form (more).


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## Cayenarama

FromPA said:


> I continue to be surprised by differences between BE and AE.  In the US, I have never heard "who needs the more help."   I would never use "the" with the comparative form (more).



Hi FromPA,
I am seriously doubting it myself now. Perhaps we should open it in a new thread.


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## Lis48

I agree with Cayenarama.
I see nothing wrong with 'You have to know who needs *the* *more* help' because it refers to the person who needs more help than the others. If you used '*the most* help,' then it would mean the person who needs most help of all. 
The same person, but a different way of putting it.
e.g. The more fruit you eat, the healthier you will be. (PA, here the more is used with the comparative form surely?) The most fruit I ever ate in a day was twenty apples.
Perhaps it´s a BE/AE difference.


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## pepito grillo el amo

Then is it correct if I say:
"you need to know who the person is who needs the more help"
??
And sorry if this thread caused a lot of controversy!! perhaps it would be interesting to hear more opinions from english speakers


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## Cayenarama

*Joined threads. Remember, one thread per subject * ​ 
Hi foreros,
A query has arisen in a previous thread and I would like to know what people think. I suggested that it was possible to say:
'You need to know who needs the more help'
My question is: Is it possible to use the definite article 'the' with comparative constructions such as 'more help'?
The phrases in contention are:
'You need to know who (the person is that) needs the most help'
'You need to know who (which person) needs the more help'
'You need to know who (which person) needs more help'
We are to suppose that we are only talking about two people. 
Thank you in advance for any advice you might have on this.


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## Cayenarama

Hi Pepito and fellow 'foreros',
I have just opened a new thread called:
You need to know who needs more help/ the more help
(Since I don't know who needs the more help, Pepito or I)


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## cyberpedant

Cayenarama said:


> Hi foreros,
> A query has arisen in a previous thread and I would like to know what people think. I suggested that it was possible to say:
> 'You need to know who needs the more help'
> My question is: Is it possible to use the definite article 'the' with comparative constructions such as 'more help'?
> The phrases in contention are:
> 'You need to know who (the person is that) needs the most help'
> 'You need to know who (which person) needs the more help'
> 'You need to know who (which person) needs more help'
> We are to suppose that we are only talking about two people.
> Thank you in advance for any advice you might have on this.


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## chileno

Cayenarama said:


> Hi Pepito and fellow 'foreros',
> I have just opened a new thread called:
> You need to know who needs more help/ the more help
> (Since I don't know who needs the more help, Pepito or I)





You are correct, though.

Thanks for opening the other thread.


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## FromPA

Lis48 said:


> I agree with Cayenarama.
> I see nothing wrong with 'You have to know who needs *the* *more* help' because it refers to the person who needs more help than the others. If you used '*the most* help,' then it would mean the person who needs most help of all.
> The same person, but a different way of putting it.
> e.g. The more fruit you eat, the healthier you will be. (PA, here the more is used with the comparative form surely?) The most fruit I ever ate in a day was twenty apples.
> Perhaps it´s a BE/AE difference.


 
It varies by construction.  "The more fruit I eat..." is correct, but not "I eat the more fruit than anyone else."   I can't put my finger on what makes the difference, but perhaps we'll get some insight from the new thread that has been opened.


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## pubman

If we stay with the scenario of two injured people I would likely say

You need to know which person to treat first.

Or to be more faithful to the original text

You need to know who the person is who needs the more/most help


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## pepito grillo el amo

We can clearly see there are several differences between british english and american english,here is one of them,only someone who knows both variants or has lived in both american and british countries could give a valid answer,or perhaps an entitled linguist.
As the originator of the discussion I gotta say I heard the initial phrase from a british man on TV,not an american.


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## Cayenarama

All right, I accept that '...needs more help' sounds more normal in spoken English but if it is wrong to use '...needs the more help' what is the rule? Is there a rule or does it just come down to what sounds more familiar?


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## Cayenarama

pepito grillo el amo said:


> We can clearly see there are several differences between british english and american english,here is one of them,only someone who knows both variants or has lived in both american and british countries could give a valid answer,or perhaps an entitled linguist.
> As the originator of the discussion I gotta say I heard the initial phrase from a british man on TV,not an american.



Perhaps you're right, pepito, it's certainly got me stumped.


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