# Slovak: zadefinovať



## francisgranada

Hello!

Nowadays I often hear the verb _zadefinovať_ on TV (used p.e. also by the Slovak prime minister).

Personally, I don't like the combination of the prefix _za-_ with the verb _definovať_ (finally, of Latin origin) ... What's your opinion? Is the verb _zadefinovať _correct ("spisovné")?

Thanks in advance.


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi fg, if you haven't seen it already, there's a useful piece about _zadefinovat'_ here (source: jazykovaporadna.sme.sk). You will have no trouble reading it, but in case the url link breaks at some stage in the future, here's the gist:

Among other things, the article notes that the _za_ prefix is used in an attempt to make clearer the "perfectiveness" of the verb _definovat'_ which is already dual-aspect. It compares this verb with the similar (because they are foreign borrowings) already dual-aspect verbs _renovovať, reštaurovať _and_ reagovať, _which, it notes, have also been prefixed with _z _or_ za._ The prefixed forms of those verbs, the article says, are now considered to be "correct" and have found their way into the dictionaries. The article says _zadefinovat'_ "can be seen in a similar way".

"Obojvidové sú aj slovesá _prezentovať _a _definovať, _ale napríklad aj _renovovať, reštaurovať _či _reagovať. _Napriek tomu používatelia slovenského jazyka pociťovali potrebu zjednoznačniť dokonavosť pridaním domácich predpôn ako _s-, z-, za-. _Dokonavé slovesá _zrenovovať, zreštaurovať _a _zareagovať _sú dnes bežnou súčasťou slovnej zásoby spisovnej slovenčiny a uvádzajú sa aj v slovenských slovníkoch," the article says. "Podobne dnes možno prijať aj tvary _zadefinovať _a _odprezentovať_, ktoré sa v súčasnej slovenčine bežne používajú."


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi KR, as the article I quoted says ("Obojvidové sú aj slovesá _prezentovať _a _definovať, _ale napríklad aj _renovovať, reštaurovať _či _reagovať. _Napriek tomu používatelia slovenského jazyka pociťovali potrebu zjednoznačniť dokonavosť pridaním domácich predpôn ako _s-, z-, za-.") _, _definovat'_ is already dual-aspect, but speakers have felt the need to make the perfective sense more evident by adding the prefix.


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## Karton Realista

Enquiring Mind said:


> Hi KR, as the article I quoted says ("Obojvidové sú aj slovesá _prezentovať _a _definovať, _ale napríklad aj _renovovať, reštaurovať _či _reagovať. _Napriek tomu používatelia slovenského jazyka pociťovali potrebu zjednoznačniť dokonavosť pridaním domácich predpôn ako _s-, z-, za-.") _, _definovat'_ is already dual-aspect, but speakers have felt the need to make the perfective sense more evident by adding the prefix.


Yeah, yeah, I had seen it before and deleted my post. Sorry


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## francisgranada

Hi Karton Realista, no problem . According to my experiences, the Polish uses the verbs of Latin origin even more "freely", thus it seems to me the such verbs with Slavic prefixes are more common in Polish than in Slovak or Czech.

Hi Enquiring Mind, thanks for the perfect explanation. Perhaps, the next step will be "potreba zjednoznačniť nedokonavosť" and we shall have also _definúvať _or _definovávať _ ... (I have the impression that I have already heard something like these forms).

All in all, it's question of usage. Personally, I still do feel a bit "unnatural"  the verb _zadefinovať_, but e.g.  _zareagovať _or _zrenovovať  _are o.k. to my ears.


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## Karton Realista

francisgranada said:


> According to my experiences, the Polish uses the verbs of Latin origin even more "freely", thus it seems to me the such verbs with Slavic prefixes are more common in Polish than in Slovak or Czech.


In Polish none of the words mentioned before have dual aspect. Zareagować, zrenowować, odrestaurować (archaic zrestaurować), zdefiniować are completely natural perfectives and reagować, renowować, etc. are their imperfectives. 
I've noticed on contrary, that you use English loans more freely (existovať, the funniest loan ever; v Tescu vs w Tesco).


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## Enquiring Mind

_Definovávať _(and its equivalent in Czech) are already here, but this is the iterative/frequentative - indicating a repeated or habitual action - form. The author of this paper (ROZHĽADY - ASPEKTOLÓGIA V REGENSBURGU, MILOSLAVA SOKOLOVÁ; JAZYKOVEDNÝ ČASOPIS, ROČNÍK 52, 2001, ČÍSLO 2) notes (on p106) that linguists take differing views about whether the iterative or frequentative form should be considered as a third aspect.

_"Argument proti chápaniu frekventatív ako špeciálneho tretieho vidu najlepšie sformuloval B. P a n z e r (1991), ktorý napr. upozornil na to, že ani imperfektíva nemusia vždy vyjadrovať aktuálny prézent. Aktuálny prézent nemusia mať ani iné statické významy slovies (už chodí). Tento argument (neexistencia aktuálneho prézentu) je skôr charakteristikou násobených slovies než argumentom pre existenciu tretieho vidu; porov. aj argumenty I. P o l d a u fa (1954), A. G. Š i r o k o v o v e j(1963), A. B a r n e t o v e j (1975). *Frekventatíva nemenia vid, tvoria nové lexémy významovo veľmi blízke východiskovým imperfektívam, ale nie sú s nimi totožné...*,(...) Z uvedeného vyplýva, že frekventatíva a iteratíva sú aj pre nás nové lexémy a ich sufixy pokladáme za derivačné, nie vidotvorné modifikačné morfémy. *V slovníkoch by sa mali uvádzať osobitne s vysvetlením rozdielov medzi nimi a základovým slovesom.*"_

Here are a couple of examples (sorry about the missing accents, copied and pasted from the net):
_ Budem ti definovavat pojmy vsetkych metafor?_ (source: sme.sk)
_Nerozumiem, preco ludia potrebuju vzdy vsetko definovavat a skatulkovat_ (source: diskusneforum.sk)

So iteratives/frequentatives like _definovávat'_ are all imperfectives, but the imperfective form does not necessarily convey adequately (depending on the context) the repeated or habitual sense of the verb, which is why the iterative may be preferred.


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## francisgranada

Karton Realista said:


> In Polish none of the words mentioned before have dual aspect. Zareagować, zrenowować, odrestaurować (archaic zrestaurować), zdefiniować are completely natural perfectives and reagować, renowować, etc. are their imperfectives.


It's perfectly understandable, of course.  When I say _more freely_ it's not a "criticism" ... (rather I wanted to say that in Polish the distinction between perfectives and imperfectives is more "stabilized" in case of verbs of foreign origin). 





Enquiring Mind said:


> _ ... _So iteratives/frequentatives like _definovávat'_ are all imperfectives, but the imperfective form does not necessarily convey adequately (depending on the context) the repeated or habitual sense of the verb, which is why the iterative may be preferred.


You are right, of course. I only wanted to emphasize that some vebal forms created from some verbs of foreign origin do not sound natural (or not _yet_). To be more precise, the form _definovávať _- as iterative - is not unnatural, but rather _unusual_ to me.


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