# Urdu: What features characterize Lacknavi?



## lcfatima

Can you please highlight specific features that distinguish the Laknavi dialect of Urdu? Grammatical distinctions, lexical preferences, dialectical pronunciation differences, etc.? I am just looking for a bried summary with Lucknavi contrasted with the textbook standard Urdu.


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## panjabigator

The first thing that comes to mind is the pace of speech.  It's well enunciated and crisp to my ears( as compared to Panjabi!).

Grammatical distinction: The _royal we_ is very common. 
Lexical preferences: More Persianized vocab?

We'll wait for a better responce from our two _Lakhnavi_s.


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## BP.

This Lakhnavi hasn't ever been to Lucknow!

The first thing that comes to mind is the accent. You'd notice it has a _T-hehrao_ and calmness. Words are mostly spoken from the lower parts of the buccal cavity, that is to say nasality is severely discouraged for alphabets other than those supposed to be nasal e.g. the _noon ghun-na_.

Then there's the peculiar adab aadaab. The use of higher registers in common speech for instance. Even for oneself - _hum_ instead of _maiN_. Or the use of addressing words like biraadaram, jaan etc.

Another giveaway is the opposite assignment of gender w.r.t the Dehli _dabistaan_. For them _Delhi_ is feminin, for us it is masculin. For them _bulbul_ is masculin but is feminin for us. There are many others.

PG mentions the use of Farsi vocabulary. Well we don't consciously use Farsi words, they are Urdu words!


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## panjabigator

Yes, the vocab is of course Urdu.  

The Lakhnavi accent is not nasal at all (miles away from Panjabi).  Every syllable is pronounced and the _raftaar_ is calm and relaxed, as BG says. 

As for gender differences, <dahii> is masculine in Lucknow and feminine in Delhi (and Panjab), I believe.


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## BP.

You're right about _dahee_. The feminine appellation of yogurt intrigued me quiet a while until I found out it was a _Dilli_ thing.

Bhai jaan, its B*P*.


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## panjabigator

Yikes.  Main ne ghalatii se apne naam ka harf likhaa!  Mai~n apne kaam me.n bahut masroof huu~n, is liye WF pe pura tavajjo nahii~n de pa raha huu~n.


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## BP.

You don't have to feel bad. I wouldn't have made you notice if it wasn't your habit though.


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## lcfatima

Do Lakhnavis say dafeh instead of dafaa, jageh instead of jagaah even in the singular?


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## BP.

I think they don't. However, many Pakistani Panjabiphones do.


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## Faylasoof

I refuse to answer this as I don't desire self-praise! ... and we always say 'dafa'h ' and 'jagah'.


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## BP.

_'Azeez-e-ma_, then try your best to say the facts without indulging in self-eulogy!

Maybe Icf was under the impression that the Lakhnavi dialect is the considered the most 'cultured'. Well, I've observed that Daccani has even more consideration for _hifz-e-maraatib._ And Delhi can boast of Mir and Ghalib!


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## lcfatima

As a foreigner, I actually try to avoid in investing in beliefs of "most cultured" and so-forth, as these ideas are highly subjective. We have plenty of our own prejudices about our various dialects of American English, as you know. I was just curious as to what distinguishes Lakhnavi. I think if I were to ask for specific features of Hyderabadi, one would say: They replace qaaf with kha, for example, they say kheema for queema, they say moz for juraab, etc., plus some grammatical features, are distinct. Can no one think of anymore specific usages?

My mother-in-law has lamented that Lakhnavi has deteriorated and the man on the street will now say sundar for khubsurat, etc. Do you think this is true as well?


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## panjabigator

> My mother-in-law has lamented that Lakhnavi has deteriorated and the man on the street will now say sundar for khubsurat, etc. Do you think this is true as well?



Most every Lakhnavi I meet has something to say about the city and language in decay.  When I was there, I was repeatedly informed that the city was not what it once was.


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## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _ ..._And Delhi can boast of Mir and Ghalib!


 
True! I'm a great admirer of both. 

Mir, incidentally ended up in Luckhnow as Delhi was ravaged and became impossible to live in. His grave lies somewhere near Luckhnow's Charbagh main line station.

Also, let us not forget that if Delhi can boast _*Ghalib*_ and _*Mir *_(neither, bye the way were natives of that city - both from Agra), then Luckhnow produced _*Anis *_(Mir Babar Ali – Faizabad born but made his name in Luchknow and is buried there too) and _*Dabir*_ (Mirza Salaamat Ali – _pukka_ Luckhnavi). There contribution to Urdu literature has been sadly underestimated / ignored. Many even in Luckhnow don't know anything / much about them and their poetry. 

For me and my family, these four represent the pillars of 18th-19th century Urdu poetry. 

Both Delhi and Luckhnow produced renowned Urdu poets – too many to list- and in the Deccan were the members of the _Qutub Shahi_ and _Adil Shahi_ dynasties who laid the foundation of Urdu ‘marthiya’, that reached its zenith in Luckhnow, thanks to *Anis (*pronounced: _*Anees) *and *Dabir (*_pronounced:* Dabeer).*


BTW, anything I say about Lucknavi, would by definition tantamount to self-eulogy! Besides, all of you have said enough. 

PS: *The Wiki article on Dabir doesn't do him justice. The one on Anis is somewhat better. *


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## lcfatima

Would you say that it is a characteristic of Lakhnavis to nasalize the final noon in -aan words during regular speech, as is done when reciting poetry:

dabistaan = dabistaa(n)

Jahaan Ara = Jahaa(N) Ara


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## panjabigator

I don't think so.  I dealt with 8 Lakhnavi Urdu teachers a day and I don't recall any excess noon gunah.  Is that a quality of your Lakhnavi _nisbat_ or has their speech subsequently been Panjabicised (astagh firullah!)?


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## lcfatima

Well, my MIL says words that way. She also says restaurant and buffet with the French pronunciation in English, and uses "whom" and third person singular "one" in spoken English. So I didn't know if the noon gunah is her Lucknawi accent or if that is just her own sign of airs and grace.


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## Faylasoof

_N__oon ghunna_ is used in luckhnavi but not as much as some think. In poetry it can be used quite a lot. In daily speech it is not so easy to come up with a rule, though, as Icf you say above, in the name Jaha(n) Aara it is always this way. The same for Shah Jaha(n) - _ghunna noon_. But in words like _dabistaan_ and _dabeeristaan_ we always pronounce the _noon_ in normal speech but in poetry it might be both. 

A _noon __ghunna _may or may not be used if these words (and their likes) occurred in verse. However that will be determined by a few factors, such as rhyming and meter or whether the following word connects with  a preceding _noon_-ending word or not. For example, in the following couplet of Anis, you'll always hear the _noon_:

   جگہ نہ پائی جو كثرت میں سانس لینے كی
میانِ  بحرِ  فنا دم  بخود  حباب   آیا    

The second line reads, in romanised Urdu as: 
_myaa*n*-e-baHr-e-fanaa dam bakhud Habab aayaa_

The noon has to be pronounced as it is followed by a genitive, so you'll always say here _myaa*n*-e-baHr_  = in the middle of the sea . But in the following verse there is _noon ghunna_ to keep the meter *and *there is no genitive:

الٹ كے سب مرے مضموں پڑھے مرے آگے
مزہ  تو یہ  ہے كہ اِس پر مجہے حجاب  آیا 

Here the word _madhmoo*n* _is always pronounced _madhmoo*N* _( مضموں ) - _ghunna_- to keep the meter. [N= noon ghunna] . In speech the first is always used. 

In daily speech, apart from jahaN we also say words like dhuwaaN = smoke; zhyaaN = strong, etc. Here the _noon_ is *always *_ghunna_. 

So luckhnavi is no more _noon ghunna_-prone than say the dehlavi dialect. It has quite a lot of _takalluf_ (= formality), though, and perhaps a healthy mixture of Prakrit-old Hindi and Persio-Arabic words that give it considerable stylistic variation. For this, we have to thank poets like Anis who used a blend of common speech, incorporating Awadhi and old Hindi expressions, with middle and higher register Urdu. In this way he revived many words and expressions and made them fashionable.


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## panjabigator

And poets such as Amir Khusrao who beautifully composed couplets with Braj Bhasha and Persian intertwined.  

Very informative post!  Thank you.


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## Faylasoof

Yes! Who can forget Khusrao / Khusrauw. He is credited with elevating the _*Delhi dialect*_, amongst many other things e.g. musical theory and instruments. I read him a lot, esp. his mixed Braj Bhasha and Farsi. Did a lot for the development of Urdu or Reekhtah as some called it. Also has a huge _diwan_ in pure Farsi. There are several web sites devoted to him.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> I think they don't. However, many Pakistani Panjabiphones do.



Now, this is a surprise for me, BP SaaHib. I have never heard Punjabis use "daf3e" or "jageh". As far as I know, it is always "daf3ah" and "jagah". I don't really know which section of the Urdu speaking community speaks in this manner.


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> Now, this is a surprise for me, BP SaaHib. I have never heard Punjabis use "daf3e" or "jageh". As far as I know, it is always "daf3ah" and "jagah". I don't really know which section of the Urdu speaking community speaks in this manner.


 I do recall hearing both "daf3e" and "jageh" (instead of "daf3ah" and "jagah") in Karachi! Interestingly it was from the _UP waalaas _as well as some of our non-Punjabi_ and _ Punjabi _xidmatgaars_!


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## tonyspeed

When we speak of Lucknavi Urdu, is this the same as Avadhi? Or are these two different?



panjabigator said:


> The Lakhnavi accent is not nasal at all (miles away from Panjabi)



I once asked a Punjabi if he thought Punjabi sounded nasal and he told me "no". It's nice to see a different perspective.


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## Qureshpor

In the "baRhiyaa" thread Faylasoof SaaHib mentioned one or two Youtube videos which epitomise Lakhnavii speech. Faylasoof SaaHib, could you please provide some references so that we can all hear YOU speaking. I just hope that none of the people in the video use "baRhiyaa"! Also, this might be the right place to ask one or two questions. Could you please let us know which Urdu dictionaries are compiled by Lakhnaviis and if any are available online? And, as you are aware, a number of Lakhnavii writers had shifted from Dehli. Which Urdu poet's language (apart from the marsiyah writers) best reflects Lakhnauu speech? Would it be Amir Minai?


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> In the "baRhiyaa" thread Faylasoof SaaHib mentioned one or two Youtube videos which epitomise Lakhnavii speech. Faylasoof SaaHib, could you please provide some references so that we can all hear YOU speaking. I just hope that none of the people in the video use "baRhiyaa"! Also, this might be the right place to ask one or two questions. Could you please let us know which Urdu dictionaries are compiled by Lakhnaviis and if any are available online? And, as you are aware, a number of Lakhnavii writers had shifted from Dehli. Which Urdu poet's language (apart from the marsiyah writers) best reflects Lakhnauu speech? Would it be Amir Minai?


 I'm afraid I'm not on Youtube so you shall not be able to hear me! However, some of my relations might be!  We speak the same Urdu. I shall gladly forward the link(s) by PM to you and others who have requested it / them. 

The best lexicon of literary Urdu from Lucknow is ﻣﮩذب اﻟﻠﻐﺎت  by مہذب لکھنوی صاحب. It is referred to many times in other Urdu dictionaries which happen to be on line! If nobody bothered to put this lexicon on the net then it can’t be helped – and makes no difference to my original comments about the kind of Urdu we speak where use of _baRhiyaa_ is non-existent in either speech or prose even though it may be found in lexicons either originating from that city or revised there though originating from elsewhere since the word is part of Urdu vocabulary, a point made several time before. If you are finding all this an issue then it cannot be helped. The arguments are clear enough. 

Whether anybody these days from Lucknow, esp. in the street language, uses _baRhiyaa_ is irrelevant to what I’ve said in the other thread. The reasons for this should also be obvious to you. If not, then you may care to re-read my posts!


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> I'm afraid I'm not on Youtube so you shall not be able to hear me! However, some of my relations might be!  We speak the same Urdu. I shall gladly forward the link(s) by PM to you and others who have requested it / them.
> 
> The best lexicon of literary Urdu from Lucknow is ﻣﮩذب اﻟﻠﻐﺎت  by مہذب لکھنوی صاحب. It is referred to many times in other Urdu dictionaries which happen to be on line! If nobody bothered to put this lexicon on the net then it can’t be helped – and makes no difference to my original comments about the kind of Urdu we speak where use of _baRhiyaa_ is non-existent in either speech or prose even though it may be found in lexicons either originating from that city or revised there though originating from elsewhere since the word is part of Urdu vocabulary, a point made several time before. If you are finding all this an issue then it cannot be helped. The arguments are clear enough.
> 
> Whether anybody these days from Lucknow, esp. in the street language, uses _baRhiyaa_ is irrelevant to what I’ve said in the other thread. The reasons for this should also be obvious to you. If not, then you may care to re-read my posts!



Thank you Faylasoof re: the above but you need not have repeated your stance regarding "baRhiyaa" because my request had nothing to do with looking up this word and proving you wrong. You have made your point, forcefully, on a number of occasions and I accept and respect what you have said. Besides, you had mentioned the dictionaries elsewhere and not in the "baRhiyaa" thread. The "Youtube" request, for which I am grateful to you, was made merely to get an idea what Lakhnavii accent exactly is.

So, Faylasoof SaaHib, I do not have an issue whatsoever. By the way, amongst the three examples I provided for "baRhiyaa", one gentleman did originate from UP, even though he was n't from your city itself.


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> Thank you Faylasoof re: the above but you need not have repeated your stance regarding "baRhiyaa" because my request had nothing to do with looking up this word and proving you wrong. You have made your point, forcefully, on a number of occasions and I accept and respect what you have said. Besides, you had mentioned the dictionaries elsewhere and not in the "baRhiyaa" thread. The "Youtube" request, for which I am grateful to you, was made merely to get an idea what Lakhnavii accent exactly is.
> 
> So, Faylasoof SaaHib, I do not have an issue whatsoever. By the way, amongst the three examples I provided for "baRhiyaa", one gentleman did originate from UP, even though he was n't from your city itself.


 QP SaaHib, I hope I wasn't too forceful! Just wanted to make sure I hadn’t left any stone unturned! Besides, as I said before not every single person from Lucknow spoke the same way and would have avoided using _baRhiyaa._ After all Awadhi is also spoken there and has been for generations! I was only referring to our _shustah_ _lakhnavii_ Urdu.


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