# Temporeggiare



## Lolaruns

Hi everybody,

I had difficulties in translating the verb "temporeggiare"; the sentence was:

"Non possiamo temporeggiare per il lancio del nuovo prodotto"

I don't quite like the translation "play for time"...what do you think? 

Thanks in advance!


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## k_georgiadis

What about _we cannot stall the launch of the new product_.


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## brian

_take our (sweet) time, play the waiting game, sit back idly,_ ... ?


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## You little ripper!

Or, _hold off/delay._


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## Azazel81

Hi guys,

this is an expression we also have in sports like soccer... 

E.g.:

"il difensore porta palla e temporeggia invece di lanciare lungo per l'attaccante..." (meaning the defender is keeping the ball and keeping the "rythm" of the game quite slow, instead of maybe throwing it to one of his strikers).

How would you say this? Something like "the defender is keeping the ball, playing the waiting game, instead of throwing it to the striker..."?


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## brian

_taking his sweet time_ or _playing the waiting game_, like I mentioned above. (They have slightly different meanings though.)

But of course it'll change from context to context.


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## k_georgiadis

When comes to a game of non-stop action such as soccer, I would probably say:

_the defender is holding on to the ball, slowing the pace of the game
the defender is holding on to the ball, looking for an opening/an open player_


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## Murphy

Azazel81 said:


> Hi guys,
> 
> 
> How would you say this? Something like "the defender is keeping the ball, playing the waiting game, instead of throwing it to the striker..."? This would earn him a yellow card at least Throw - lanciare con *le mani*


BE commentators might say "the defender is playing keep-ball". I don't know how well it would work outside of the football context, though, and I definitely wouldn't suggest it as a translation for lolaruns sentence. You could, however, say "put off the launch of the project".


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## Azazel81

Ooops... sorry. Thanks Murphy, you're totally right.  Except you forgot a "know" between "I don't" and "how" .

However, thanks.  I appreciated.


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## LDATirro

Ciao a tutti,

vorrei sapere se si potessi tradurre _temporeggiare_ come _procrastinate_ in inglese? Il contesto è "Se non avessi temporeggiato, il progetto sarebbe finto."
Vi ringrazio in anticipo!


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## Gianfry

procrastinare = rimandare (nel tempo)
temporeggiare = prendere tempo
"procrastinare" implica un intervento più deciso, inequivocabile, sull'evento in questione.
E' difficile dare una risposta al tuo esempio senza qualche informazione in più.


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## Enigmista

Gianfry ha ragione..._tempore__ggiare_  potrebbe anche significare il _non_ fare niente / aspettare  in attesa che qualcosa avvenga


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## rrose17

But that's exactly what to procrastinate means in English. You don't do something you know you're supposed to do. Instead you say you'll do it later. 
A. I need to call Jim and ask him a favour. But he's probably busy. I'll call tomorrow.
B. Stop procrastinating and just call!


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## Labulla

What about "beating about the bush"??


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## Enigmista

That's settle the question Rrose..There's a nuance as far as Italian is concerned between those two verbs
Anyway,good to know


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## italtrav

Labulla said:


> What about "beating about the bush"??



Maybe. But this is used more to describe speech that fails to come to the point.


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## Labulla

Uhm, I see..


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## italtrav

""Se non avessi temporeggiato, il progetto sarebbe finto."

If I hadn't wasted so much time ...
If I hadn't put it off so long ...
If I hadn't just diddled around ...
If I hadn't dilly-dallied ...
If I had just gotten off my ass ...


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## byrne

I think that _temporaggiare_ is more along the lines of _buying time,_ in the hope that something else happens, rather than putting something off, hoping it will go away..

but I may be wrong..


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## Enigmista

byrne said:


> I think that _temporaggiare_ is more along the lines of _buying time,_ in the hope that something else happens, rather than putting something off, hoping it will go away..
> 
> but I may be wrong..



I'm with you Byrne


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## rrose17

So pracrastinare is more like to delay or postpone. How then do you say to procrastinate if not temporaggiare?


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## LDATirro

Grazie a tutti! Anche se il mio istinto è "americano" per così dire, userò "to stall" invece di "procrastinate". Non c'era contesto, è solo una frase che devo tradurre.


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## Enigmista

Io parlo per l'italiano e dal mio punto di vista ...esiste una sfumatura

_*Procrastinare*_ significa rinviare una scadenza o una certa cosa a data futura
_*
Temporeggiare*_ ha più o meno lo stesso significato ma si mette l'enfasi sull'attesa/ sull'aspettare con pazienza senza fare passi falsi in virtù di un obiettivo futuro


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## LDATirro

Grazie a tutti per l'aiuto! Penso che in inglese "to stall' vuol dire "per un po'di tempo", mentre per "procrastinate" il tempo potrebbe durare anche di più...tipo anche un mese.


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## niklavjus

Maybe 'to stall' could work,  but English also has 'to temporize', why none of you would use it?


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## cecil

niklavjus said:


> Maybe 'to stall' could work, but English also has 'to temporize', why none of you would use it?


 
We rarely, if ever, hear or see it.


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## Giorgio Spizzi

@rrose.
Your question: _How then do you say to procrastinate if not temporaggiare?_
My answer : "rimandare", "rinviare".

Inasmuch as you waste time waiting for the most favourable time for action (= temporeggiare), there's something _strategic_ which "rimandare" lacks completely. "Rimandare" is typical of lazy people.
Best.
GS


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## niklavjus

cecil said:


> We rarely, if ever, hear or see it.


Thank you for repling to me, Cecil.
The uncommon use of a word does not make it unsuitable or wrong, anyway. Right?

So, "_If I would not have temporized, the project would be finished._".

The verb 'temporeggiare' only concerns the time.
The verb 'procrastinare' only concerns actions: one can not procrastinate the time.


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## rrose17

niklavjus said:


> So, "_If I would not have temporized, the project would be finished._".


I think if you said or wrote this most people wouldn't know what you meant.

Thanks GS!


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## baldpate

Perhaps
If I had not _played for time_, ...


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## niklavjus

rrose17 said:


> I think if you said or wrote this most people wouldn't know what you meant.


But you would not say that it is wrong. Would you?

When I don not know the meaning of a word, I take the dictionary...



baldpate said:


> Perhaps
> If I had not played for time, ...


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## cecil

niklavjus said:


> Thank you for repling to me, Cecil.
> The uncommon use of a word does not make it unsuitable or wrong, anyway. Right?
> 
> So, "_If I would not have temporized, the project would be finished._".
> 
> The verb 'temporeggiare' only concerns the time.
> The verb 'procrastinare' only concerns actions: one can not procrastinate the time.


 
niklavjus, It depends upon whether you wish to communicate. The use of such a rare word (probably never heard by 99% of us) also rings of pedantry.


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## SighingatSilvio

Hmm, well...

I know what Cecil means and agree to the extent that perhaps it's not an 'everyday' word, but not quite to the extent that is being suggested there (i.e. 99%), at least in Aust/UK.

I'd rather not be considered a pedant  but I use the word 'temporise' (that's the BE spelling with the 's') quite often.  Probably more in writing than in speech, and more in a professional context than everyday speech.  But I'd use it even in that context from time to time.

As it is standing now though, your sentence is not good English:

_"If I would not have temporized, the project would be finished" _

Should be:

"_If I had not temporised the project would be finished_."

But as I said at the outset, I understand what Cecil is getting at. Personally I wouldn't blink if I saw that sentence, but if you are looking for something most acceptable to the general population then I like Baldpate's suggestion:

_"If I had not played for time the project would be finished."_

You don't need a comma there, either.


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## Wade Aznable

SighingatSilvio said:


> You don't need a comma there, either.


Could you explain why? In Italian, we would definitely need a comma there: se non avessi perso tempo*,* il progetto sarebbe già completo. 

Thanks in advance! 
W


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## niklavjus

cecil said:


> niklavjus, It depends upon whether you wish to communicate. The use of such a rare word (probably never heard by 99% of us) also rings of pedantry.


That's interesting. To fill my gaps I have checked 'temporize' on various dictionaries, and none of them says that it is rare, uncommon, antiquate or obsolete. But now that you have said me that in red I will think twice before use it.

Thank you.

Anyhow, not even the verb 'temporeggiare' is much used.



SighingatSilvio said:


> _"If I would not have temporized, the project would be finished" _
> 
> Should be:
> 
> "_If I had not temporised the project would be finished_."


That is just an AE - BE question.
As for the comma, I have just preserved the original structure of the senstentce: I consider its use, here, just a subjective matter.


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## SighingatSilvio

Hoo boy - big can of worms I've opened up here.  Careless of me.

Your question is a good one WA, and entirely fair enough, but I'm not in a position to give a 'complete' answer at present.  I'd need to prepare a lengthy paper in order to do so.  So this is 'food for thought', for now:

Comma usage is one of the more contentious issues in English and this goes back a long way.  Celebrated writers have fixated about them, so for example this, from Oscar Wilde:

"_I have spent most of the day putting in a comma and the rest of the day taking it out_."

I'm aware of all the various grammatical strictures people could throw at me in opposition but in the end I have to agree with Gertrude Stein (further down): 

http://catiporter.com/2008/01/25/i-...he-rest-of-the-day-taking-it-out-oscar-wilde/

(I can't remember how to abbreviate the link I'm sorry moderators - it's annoying me actually).

Anyway.  In general I will not use a comma unless it is necessary in order to render what I'm writing unequivocal (and sometimes I might want to be the opposite), or say for reasons of 'style' - something an Italian should understand readily.  English is more 'freestyle' than Italian also, so that's part of it.  Quite a bit actually.

In short, that sentence is complete without the comma.


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## SighingatSilvio

niklavjus said:


> That's interesting. To fill my gaps I have checked 'temporize' on various dictionaries, and none of them says that it is rare, uncommon, antiquate or obsolete. But now that you have said me that in red I will think twice before use it.
> 
> I expect that's because it isn't any of those things.
> 
> 
> That is just an AE - BE question.
> 
> No I don't think so. It's not good English regardless.
> 
> 
> As for the comma, I have just preserved the original structure of the senstentce: I consider its use, here, just a subjective matter.
> 
> Look how messy that is, honestly. But up to you.


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## Wade Aznable

SaS: thank You very much for Your excellent explanation (I also checked the link to Gertrude Stein's opinion, and it was absolutely enlightening!). 
I really really appreciated that all! 

Best regards, 
W


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## Giorgio Spizzi

Hi, Wade.
I think I understand your point there, but I also wonder whether two different languages should behave similarly -- in the field of punctuation, too.
In Italian, we don't feel the need for a comma after "ovviamente" in "Ovviamente non lo sapeva", whilst in English the comma is the norm: "Obviously, she didn't know".
All the best.
GS


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## Wade Aznable

Hi, Giorgio, 
I think You have a point here - we always have a tendency to think "similarly", I guess it's a matter of istinct, of "forma mentis". 
Thanks and have a nice day, 
W


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## Gianfry

Discussione molto interessante.
Ho riletto tutto con cura, e prima di tutto devo scusarmi, perché è stata una mia svista a generare la discussione temporeggiare/procrastinare. Il verbo italiano "procrastinare" non è stato mai citato da LDA (come era sembrato a me), il quale ha citato invece l'inglese "to procrastinate", suggerendolo come traduzione dell'italiano "temporeggiare" per la frase che gli interessava.
Detto questo, provo a dire la mia sulla differenza fra i due verbi italiani, mentre eviterò di cimentarmi coi possibili equivalenti inglesi.
Riporto parzialmente dal Treccani on-line:
*Temporeggiare*: (v. intrans.) Indugiare, prendere tempo in attesa che giunga il momento favorevole per agire o che la situazione si risolva da sé: _temporeggiava sperando di ottenere condizioni migliori_.
*Procrastinare*: (v. trans., lett.) Differire, rinviare da un giorno a un altro, dall’oggi al domani, allo  scopo di guadagnare tempo o addirittura con l’intenzione di non fare  quello che si dovrebbe: _p_. _il pagamento_; _p_. _una riunione_, _un impegno_; _continua a p_. _la partenza_.
Notiamo già due differenze: l'uno è intransitivo, l'altro è transitivo; l'uno è di uso "comune", l'altro di uso letterario/colto/erudito. Già questo ci aiuta a distinguere i possibili ambiti d'uso.
Se poi leggiamo il dizionario Hoepli on-line, la differenza è ancora più chiara.
*Temporeggiare*: v. intr.  Indugiare, prendere tempo in attesa del momento più conveniente o più favorevole per fare qualcosa: _lei voleva affrettare le nozze, lui temporeggiava _‖ SIN.   tergiversare, prendere tempo
*Procrastinare*: A v. tr. lett. Rinviare a un altro giorno con il fine di temporeggiare: _continua a p. la consegna della merce_ ‖ SIN.   differire, prorogare; B  v. intr. Temporeggiare, indugiare; tirare in lungo
Quindi, si procrastina (qualcosa) _per _temporeggiare. I due verbi rappresentano rispettivamente _il mezzo _e _il fine_.


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## niklavjus

SighingatSilvio said:
			
		

> niklavjus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is just an AE - BE question.
> 
> 
> 
> No I don't think so. It's not good English regardless.
Click to expand...


Oops, sorry, I was in hurry. I hadn't read it carefully, so I focalized just the question about 'temporize/temporise'. 
I do not doubt that my English is bad.

Thank you.



			
				SighingatSilvio said:
			
		

> niklavjus said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for the comma, I have just preserved the original structure of the senstentce: I consider its use, here, just a subjective matter.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look how messy that is, honestly. But up to you.
Click to expand...


Could you explain this better, please?


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## Gianfry

Uhm... I'm afraid that use of commas is a bit off topic here...


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## SighingatSilvio

niklavjus said:


> Could you explain this better, please?


 
Hello again.

Perhaps this is a bit off-topic Gianfry but I'd rather not leave niklavjus 'hanging'.  Besides, this sort of thing really is important if you want to write well in English.

To recap briefly:

Originally Posted by *niklavjus* 
As for the comma, I have just preserved the original structure of the senstentce: I consider its use, here, just a subjective matter.

Originally Posted by *SighingatSilvio* 
Look how messy that is, honestly. But up to you.

===========

This is how I'd write what you have there (forget about the obvious typo for 'sentence'), sticking as close as possible to your wording:

"As for the comma, I just preserved the original structure of the sentence. (_I don't want to drive Gianfry crazy but you should also know a colon is not appropriate there - you aren't introducing something, not really_). I consider its use here just a subjective matter."

Let's just focus on the second sentence from here, which is what I was looking at really. You don't need commas either side of "here" and I think most would agree it is 'messier' if they appear. Don't clutter up the sentence. Let the words speak for themselves as much as possible. 

Now you might say you wanted to emphasise "here" by putting commas either side. If you did? This can be achieved simply with a different word order, instead. So:

"Here I consider its use just a subjective matter."

Much better to read that way than with laborious commas all over the place. This is the kind of thing Gertrude Stein was driving at.

Look, like everyone else I'm sure, when I post here I'm not writing every time as if I'm in the running for the Pulitzer. We...post on the fly and so on, although at the same time seek to adhere to the particular requirements of these forums. So of course I can see aspects of my own writing above for example I could improve, along pretty much the same lines I am positing here, plus other things - I tend to overhyphenate, for example (lol, just like that ).


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## niklavjus

Actually, I had not asked for a lesson of style. I was just wondering  how appropriate was the adjective 'messy' in your comment, but don't  bother to explain it too. Anyhow, I prefer save words rather than commas, _con  buona pace di Gertrude Stein_, and, as for your opinion about the colon, I  disagree. 

I apologize for the digression.


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## SighingatSilvio

Wow - very hissy indeed.  

To be clear, it's more than style.  If you want to write like that then your choice as I said initially, but you will come across like a 4-5th grade schoolboy.

No question at all on the colon usage.  That really is terrible.

You have said yourself your English isn't good.  I'm at a bit of a loss accordingly to understand how you could presume to argue with Gertrude.  But once again, as you wish, and good luck.


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## niklavjus

Hissy like this? If so, the child in me says: "LOL!".
Just to be clearer, I do not argue at all with '_Gertrude_': I'm just too much old to feel the need of a model. And I prefer to look like a boy for the way I write rather than the way I act or for what I write... 
As for your last evaluation about my use of the colon, I will resign myself.

Said that, feel free to reply, but don't wait for me.


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## SighingatSilvio

Okay I won't hold my breath.

ROFL.


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