# zarten Schatten, zarte Gestalt (Trakl)



## Löwenfrau

I'm seeking for the best way of rendering the adjective "zart" in both passages (of the same text):


"Leise wollte ich dann am Fenster vorüberhuschen, als ich den zitternden, zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt sich vom Kiesweg abheben sah."

"Sonnenstrahlen huschten über ihre lichte, zarte Gestalt hin..."

The girl in question is a fragile, sick girl. At the same time, the narrator has feelings of tenderness for her. I know "zart" can mean "fragile", "delicate", "faint", etc., but also "tender", "dear", "lovely", etc. In the first passage I think "delicate" or "fragile" fit well, along with "zitterneden" (oscillating).  But in the second passage I'm not sure whether to use "delicate" again, or "tender", "dear"... Opinions?

Thanks in advance!


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## Schimmelreiter

I'd say _tender _in both cases: _den zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt_, as a rhetorical device, effectively means _den Schatten von Marias zarter Gestalt. _It's not the _Schatten _that's _zart_ but _Marias Gestalt _​is.





Löwenfrau said:


> oscillating


_trembling

>>>

zitternden, zarten > trembling tender
_Note the alliteration!









Löwenfrau said:


> Leise wollte ich dann am Fenster vorüberhuschen, als ich den zitternden, zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt sich vom Kiesweg abheben sah.


_I was about to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._


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## Löwenfrau

> _zitternden, zarten > trembling tender
> Note the alliteration!_



Is that the main reason why you chose _tender_, or you think that the other possibilities listed above are less appropriate? Because, as to the alliteration, I'd still have to find a solution in Portuguese.



> "Leise wollte ich dann am Fenster vorüberhuschen, als ich den zitternden, zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt sich vom Kiesweg abheben sah."
> _I was about to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._



This is beautiful. As to "Leise wollte ich...", I was in doubt whether "leise" could not refer to "wollte", instead of "am Fenster vorüberhuschen"; in the sense of "I secretly desired..." Is this possible? I know your reading even makes more sense, but I can't help finding the word order a little odd.


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## Schimmelreiter

Löwenfrau said:


> Is that the main reason why you chose _tender_


I'd sell my grandmother for an alliteration. Just kidding. I like the idea of a woman's appearance being tender. I believe that's pretty close to _zart.


__leise wollen _is very unlikely. 
_leise huschen _​is very likely.


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## Löwenfrau

Schimmelreiter said:


> I'd sell my grandmother for an alliteration. Just kidding. I like the idea of a woman's appearance being tender. I believe that's pretty close to _zart.
> 
> 
> __leise wollen _is very unlikely.
> _leise huschen _​is very likely.



I see. Thank you .


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## Hutschi

Hi, I think it is between "tender" and "fragile" (like a butterfly) in the given context.

I do not know if there exists a word in English connecting both meanings.


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## Schimmelreiter

tender
_1.a. Easily crushed or bruised; fragile: a tender petal.
b. Easily chewed or cut: tender beef.

2. Young and vulnerable: of tender age.
3. Frail; delicate.


_http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tender


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## Hutschi

Schimmelreiter said:


> tender
> _1.a. Easily crushed or bruised; fragile: a tender petal.
> b. Easily chewed or cut: tender beef.
> 
> 2. Young and vulnerable: of tender age.
> 3. Frail; delicate.
> 
> 
> _http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tender



Thank you, so "tender" works really well.


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## Löwenfrau

> _I was about to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._


 
Is _scamper _the best choice here? I was thinking in _enter_ or _penetrate_. _Scamper _seems more suitable for when he comes back:
"Da nun trat ich, wie von einem flüchtigen Gedanken erfaßt, zum Fenster und legte die Rose, die ich eben erst gebrochen, in Marias Schoß. Dann schlich ich lautlos davon, als fürchtete ich, ertappt zu werden."


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## Schimmelreiter

What's





Löwenfrau said:


> am Fenster vorüberhuschen


got to do with





Löwenfrau said:


> _enter_ or _penetrate_?


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## Löwenfrau

He doesn't enter? He _stops_ at the window?

Other translations say "to penetrate the window" and "to scurry past the window"


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## Schimmelreiter

_vorüber = past _≠ _​through_


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## Löwenfrau

> "Leise wollte ich dann am Fenster vorüberhuschen, als ich den zitternden, zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt sich vom Kiesweg abheben sah."





> _I was about to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._



I have a feeling that you might be inverting the order or things in English. In your reading, he first was about to scamper quietly past the window, and then he saw the trembling tender shadow of Marias's figure silhouetted against the gravel past. I think (and isn't that the function of "als" in German?) he first saw her shadow and then he wanted to pass by the window quietly:

"_[In] seeing the __trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path, __I wanted/ meant to scamper quietly past the window". 

_If we read the whole paragraph:

" Sooft ich da am Zaun vorüberkam, brach ich wie in Gedanken eine von den großen, leuchtendroten, duftschweren Rosen. Leise wollte ich dann am Fenster vorüberhuschen, als ich den zitternden, zarten Schatten von Marias Gestalt sich vom Kiesweg abheben sah. Und mein Schatten berührte den ihrigen wie in einer Umarmung. Da nun trat ich, wie von einem flüchtigen Gedanken erfaßt, zum Fenster und legte die Rose, die ich eben erst gebrochen, in Marias Schoß. Dann schlich ich lautlos davon, als fürchtete ich, ertappt zu werden."

we can notice a progression: he sees her shadow, and wants to pass by the window (only pass by, quietly, maybe to see her); but when he gets close, his shadow touches hers as an embrace, and then, moved by this vision, he has an instantaneous, impulsive thought: to step up to the window and lay the rose on Marias' lap.


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## bearded

Sorry, I do not agree, and I think SR is right.  Please consider the following example:
Ich wollte gerade spazieren gehen, als ich plötzlich die Stimme meiner Mutter hörte, die rief: bleib doch zu Hause!
It does not mean ''when I heard my mother's voice, I wanted to go for a walk...''.
I think you are misunderstanding the function of 'als' in the sentence concerned.


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## cuore romano




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## Hutschi

Man kann zwar nicht abstimmen, aber zustimmen.


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## Löwenfrau

bearded man said:


> Sorry, I do not agree, and I think SR is right.  Please consider the following example:
> Ich wollte gerade spazieren gehen, als ich plötzlich die Stimme meiner Mutter hörte, die rief: bleib doch zu Hause!
> It does not mean ''when I heard my mother's voice, I wanted to go for a walk...''.
> I think you are misunderstanding the function of 'als' in the sentence concerned.




I'm reading "als" as "indem". 
I don't understand the use of "als" in SR's rendition. You too are probably right, but I just don't get it. It seems like "als" means there the opposite of what I learnt. Both translations into English of Trakl's text read it the same way I do.


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## cuore romano

Do you have a link to these English translations?  
I've found this one and I think there are some mistakes.
http://cordite.org.au/translations/georg-trakl-dreamland/


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## Löwenfrau

cuore romano said:


> Do you have a link to these English translations?
> I've found this one and I think there are some mistakes.
> http://cordite.org.au/translations/georg-trakl-dreamland/



One of them is this, and the other one: http://www.literaturnische.de/Trakl/english/sonst-e.htm#dreamcountry

Both have quite a few mistakes indeed. But _this_ mistake (_als _as _indem_) particularly is a genuine mistake...


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## cuore romano

Löwenfrau said:


> He doesn't enter? He _stops_ at the window?
> 
> Other translations say "to penetrate the window" and "to scurry past the window"



I'd suggest you forget the translation that says _"to penetrate the window"  _- it's nowhere in the German text, and that's not the only mistake.


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## Löwenfrau

cuore romano said:


> I'd suggest you forget the translation that says _"to penetrate the window"  _- it's nowhere in the German text, and that's not the only mistake.



Yes, I forgot that already. 
But afterwards: "Da nun trat ich, wie von einem flüchtigen Gedanken erfaßt, zum Fenster und legte die Rose..."
_"... I stepped to the window..." _(in SR's translation: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2981119)


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## Löwenfrau

> _I was about to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._



So, in our text here, following SR's translation, the idea is that he just wanted to scamper quietly past the window, but once he saw Maria's shadow, and more, when he saw her shadow encountering his, he then changed his mind and impulsively decided to step up to window?


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## Schimmelreiter

It's this _when_:

_I was having a shower when the telephone rang.
I was planning to __scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path._
Intuitively, I stepped to the window, in which Maria had appeared (hence her shadow, due to the light inside the room).

Please don't ask me how I





Löwenfrau said:


> legte die Rose, die ich eben erst gebrochen, in Marias Schoß.


She was in the window. Standing? Sitting? The rose, into her lap? Why didn't she just take it?


She was standing, and the rose, not affixed to her lap, immediately fell to the ground.


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## Löwenfrau

> She was in the window. Standing? Sitting? The rose, into her lap? Why didn't she just take it?



She was always sitting, she was seriously ill and in all other passages she was clearly sitting. Just a few lines before he said: Dort sah ich die kranke Maria sitzen – still und unbeweglich, mit geschlossenen Augen. The rose in Maria's lap, yes. The narrator was shy, that's why he didn't just give the rose to her.



> It's this _when:
> 
> I was having a shower when the telephone rang.
> I was planning to scamper quietly past the window when I beheld the trembling tender shadow of Maria's figure silhouetted against the gravel path.
> Intuitively, I stepped to the window, in which Maria had appeared (hence her shadow, due to the light inside the room)._



Yes, I got that. But you think this is different from my interpretation in  #22?


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## Schimmelreiter

No difference.
Apologies! I started writing 23, with many interruptions (on the train), before I saw 22.


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## Löwenfrau

Schimmelreiter said:


> No difference.
> Apologies! I started writing 23, with many interruptions (on the train), before I saw 22.



No problem! Thanks for your great help!


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