# Levantine Arabic: تهبّل، استهبل



## elroy

[Split from here.]
In Palestinian, أتهبّل and أستهبل are completely different things.  Is it different in Northern Levantine?


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## She'lock Holmes

elroy said:


> In Palestinian, أتهبّل and أستهبل are completely different things. Is it different in Northern Levantine?


Personally, I never saw or heard أتهبل before. If I heard 'أَتْهَبَّل' I would understand that someone was 'normal' but is in the [artificial?] process of 'becoming' silly, which is just odd.
As in (never actually heard it or anything like it) هوي عم يتهبَّل حالياً or راح يتهبَّل لو ضَل معاكن أكتر من هيك.


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## elroy

No, that's not what it means.  It means "to act silly."  For example, ابني لما يكون ماكل كتير حلو بصير يتهبّل.

يستهبل means something like "to treat someone as though they were stupid/dumb/clueless."  An idiomatic equivalent that works in many cases would be "to try to pull a fast one on them."  For example, if a boy is trying to get away with doing something he's not allowed to do and tries to act innocent, his mother could say تستهبلنيش، بعرف شو بدك تعمل.


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## She'lock Holmes

elroy said:


> No, that's not what it means. It means "to act silly." For example, ابني لما يكون ماكل كتير حلو بصير يتهبّل.


That usage doesn't seem idiomatic at all for me, it's definitely a Northern/Southern difference.



elroy said:


> يستهبل means something like "to treat someone as though they were stupid/dumb/clueless." An idiomatic equivalent that works in many cases would be "to try to pull a fast one on them." For example, if a boy is trying to get away with doing something he's not allowed to do and tries to act innocent, his mother could say تستهبلنيش، بعرف شو بدك تعمل.


It can also be used in this meaning too, but we also use it for merely being silly and teasy and this second usage seems to be increasing. Although calling some أهبل or هبلة always has the 'dumb,stupid' meaning.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> يستهبل means something like "to treat someone as though they were stupid/dumb/clueless."


I believe we understand it in the same way, but I would say that it means 'to act as though one is stupid/dumb/clueless'. It differs from يتهبل in that the latter is usually used to mean 'silly' not 'stupid', and it is generally seen as innocent with no ulterior motive whereas the former is more about acting stupid to get something or to get away with something.



She'lock Holmes said:


> it's definitely a Northern/Southern difference.


Maybe, because it's commonly used among Palestinians and Jordanians.


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> I would say that it means 'to act as though one is stupid/dumb/clueless'.


 Hmmm... I don’t think so.  If you استهبل, you may play dumb, but the core idea is that you are counting on _others_ being dumb for your trick to work.  And you can استهبل in many ways other than playing dumb.  A dishonest salesman can tell his customers that his cheap fabric is rare and high-quality, thinking they don’t know any better, but if they know their fabrics, they can say هدا البياع بستهبلنا عشان يبيعنا القماش بأغلى من قيمتو.  The salesman is not playing dumb; he’s manipulating the customers in a way that relies on _them_ being dumb for him to get what he wants. 

The pattern استفعل, when used with adjectival roots, is always about what you think of someone else, not about how you are acting.

استرخص، استغلى، استحلى، استصغر، إلخ


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> The pattern استفعل, when used with adjectival roots, is always about what you think of someone else, not about how you are acting.


True, but it can also be the other way round such as: استعلى، استكبر، استفرغ. 

Now I am aware that the latter is mostly found in fus7a and in PA it's mostly as you said, but PA is unique in that it is a Levantine dialect that shares some vocabulary with Egyptian Arabic. Now استهبل in other Levantine dialects (as shown by She'lock) as well as in EA means 'to act stupid', so it would seem unlikely that the pattern would break in the middle, right?

Of course, it could be me understanding it this way due to constant exposure to Syrian and Egyptian dialects .


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## tounsi51

هبل root exists in NA, especially in Algeria and Tunisia

مهبول means crazy/mad
هبلت؟ means are you crazy/mad? or did you go crazy/mad


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## elroy

elroy said:


> هدا البياع بستهبلنا عشان يبيعنا القماش بأغلى من قيمتو


 Does this sound okay to you, @Mahaodeh?


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## momai

The verb thabbal is used in my dialect. Howerver it doesnt have anything to do with behaviour, but rather with something totaly different, namely cocking. It derives from هبلة  very hot steam.

Btw, this is how I precieve/understand/use these words:
استهبلك = استجحشك = يستقل بقدراتك العقلية
تهبلن= تخوتن  هو ان تتضرف كخويتة/هبيلة


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> Does this sound okay to you, @Mahaodeh?



Yes, very much. I see your point.

I stand corrected.

I don't know how I skipped this sentence though!


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> If you استهبل, you may play dumb, but the core idea is that you are counting on _others_ being dumb for your trick to work.
> هدا البياع بستهبلنا عشان يبيعنا القماش بأغلى من قيمتو.  The salesman is not playing dumb; he’s manipulating the customers in a way that relies on _them_ being dumb for him to get what he wants.


I agree.

In my opinion تهبل means: talking nonsense  (stupid)


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## elroy

sun_shine 331995 said:


> In my opinion تهبل means: talking nonsense  (stupid)


 Yes, it has that meaning in Palestinian Arabic too.  What dialect are you referring to?


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> What dialect are you referring to?


Egyptian Arabic.


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## tounsi51

Is the word بهلول used in Levantine? It means stupid or moron in TA


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## elroy

In Palestinian Arabic we would say هَبّول (_habbūl_), هَبَلة (_habale_), هَبيلة (_habīle_), or هَبَلوش (_habalōš_).  I think بهلول is a different root, isn’t it?


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## tounsi51

elroy said:


> I think بهلول is a different root, isn’t it?



I have no clue


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## elroy

Well, I think it has to be, because the ب precedes the ه.  Unless it used to be هبلول and underwent metathesis.


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## tounsi51

Ah yes, you must be right.


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## Hemza

tounsi51 said:


> هبل root exists in NA, especially in Algeria and Tunisia
> 
> مهبول means crazy/mad
> هبلت؟ means are you crazy/mad? or did you go crazy/mad



In Libya I think it is widely used too.

In Morocco you find أحمق for the North and مجنون for the South and مهبول is used too. Also أحمق, مهبول and مجنون are used but not necessarily to insult someone; it may be for joking purposes.



tounsi51 said:


> Is the word بهلول used in Levantine? It means stupid or moron in TA



Also used in Morocco beside بهل so I guess it is a switch of the two letters.


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## Mahaodeh

بهلول is unrelated. As elroy mentioned it is a different root and the word in fus7a actually means something in the lines of 'hard working' and/or 'earnest'. The reason that in colloquial we link it to madness (or pretending to be mad) is actually historical and not related to the root. It has to do with البهلول بن عمرو who was a very renowned religious scholar during the Abbasid era, but he then went mad for whatever reason (historians tell different stories). He is mostly famous due to his relationship with Harun Al Rasheed.


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## Hemza

Thank you, that's really really interesting to learn . I had no idea what was behind (and beyond) this word and merely thought it was a "reversed" version of أهبل (like جذب>جبد) and that بهلول was a kind of تصغير of it or something like that. I also quite heard it from my mum so I never thought such word could hide such story  .


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