# Nationality - distinguish meanings



## kusurija

Hi, all!

Translating personal documents, there is some problem, how to distinguish main meanings of word nationality in English. In Countries I'm familiar to, in documents are distinguished: 

1. meaning: *Nationality* as citizenship (person is citizen of certain country(state) without regard what is his nationality (nationhood)
2. meaning: *Nationality* as nationhood (person is member of certain nation without regard what language he can speak (most often the same as language of that nation, but not always) and without regard what is his citizenship.)
3. Who is the person regarding to what language is his mothertongue.

I'm curious, how it is in Your respective language/country?

In Czech:
1. *Státní příslušnost* (E.g. občan České Republiky)
2. *Národnost* (E.g. - česká)
3. (no specific term) (E.g. Čech _or_ česky mluvící)

In Lithuanian:
1. *Pilietybė* (E.g. Lietuvos Respublikos pilietis)
2. *Tautybė* (E.g. Lietuvis)
3. (no specific term) (E.g. Lietuvis _or _lietuviškai kalbantis)

Thanks for answers.


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## Sionees

I have a related problem - the more so as I come from a nation which does not have full statehood, but is part of a nation state of, inter alia, the EU and the UN. I refer of course to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which some unfortunates mistake for England (or the equivalent in their native tongue). But let us not talk politics on a language and linguistics site.

I just want to draw your attention to these differences in my language, with apologies for translations only in English (I can do the same in French):

_Cymru_ (n.f.) > Wales
_Cymraeg_ (n.f.) > The Welsh language
_Cymraeg_ (adj.) > Pertaining to the Welsh language
_Cymreig_ (adj.) > Welsh in nature

Note then that the two adjectival forms are distinguished by us but not by the English. _Llyfr Cymraeg_ is by definition 'a book in the Welsh language' but _llyfr Cymreig_ can be any book in any language which touches on Wales or the Welsh.

These forms continue for e.g. _Saesneg_/_Seising_ 'English', _Ffrangeg_/_Ffrengig_ 'French', _Llydaweg_/_Llydewig_ 'Breton' etc. 

_Hwyl fawr_


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## Outsider

In Portuguese, we don't normally distinguish between 1) and 2). We tend to identify one's nation with one's state. Some people occasionally do speak of "nationalities" in sense 2), but it's typically when they're talking about foreign countries, and frankly that tends comes off as a little pedantic.

In government forms and such what you will find is the question "What is your nationality?", meaning your state/country, not your "nation". Like in English, as a matter of fact. Indeed, we normally use the word for "nation" as a synonym of both "state" and "country", unless we're talking about a country like the U.S., which is subdivided into "states".

A similar notion to 2), which I prefer, and is more commonly used, is 2*) ethnicity.

Now, if you are looking for words I would suggest the following:

1) nacionalidade* (e.g. _nacionalidade portuguesa_, Portuguese nationality)
2) nacionalidade (e.g. _nacionalidade catalã_, Catalan nationality in Spain --> rarely said)
2*) ethnicity: etnia (e.g. _etnia cigana_, Gypsy ethnicity)
3) língua materna (-->mother tongue)

*The word _cidadania_ (a literal translation of "citizenship") also exists, but it refers more to the rights, duties, and engagement of a citizen in a democracy. You do, nevertheless, say _cidadania portuguesa_ (Portuguese citizenship) and _cidadania europeia_ (European citizenship).


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## Sionees

And to try and answer the initial questions.

_Cymro, Cymraes, Cymry _> Welshman, Welshwoman, the Welsh people
_Cymro/Cymraes di-Gymraeg_ > a Welshman/woman without Welsh (i.e. not speaking the language - the majority of the population.
_Cymro/Cymraes/Cymry alltud_  > Exiled Welshman/woman/people (i.e. not living in _Cymru_) Also _Cymro/Cymraes/Cymry tramor_ > Overseas Welshman/woman/people

None of the above have official status within the UK. We are (British) subjects of Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, yet laws and passports tell us we are (British) citizens. Following the passing of the Maastricht Treaty we are also European citizens of the EU.

_Prydeiniwr/Prydeines/Prydeinwyr_ > British man/woman/people (= Briton/Britons)

These words are of course ultimately P Celtic. (See above).


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## kusurija

Sionees said:


> I have a related problem - the more so as I come from a nation which does not have full statehood, but is part of a nation state of, inter alia, the EU and the UN. I refer of course to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, which some unfortunates mistake for England (or the equivalent in their native tongue). But let us not talk politics on a language and linguistics site.
> 
> I just want to draw your attention to these differences in my language, with apologies for translations only in English (I can do the same in French):
> 
> _Cymru_ (n.f.) > Wales
> _Cymraeg_ (n.f.) > The Welsh language
> _Cymraeg_ (adj.) > Pertaining to the Welsh language
> _Cymreig_ (adj.) > Welsh in nature
> 
> Note then that the two adjectival forms are distinguished by us but not by the English. _Llyfr Cymraeg_ is by definition 'a book in the Welsh language' but _llyfr Cymreig_ can be any book in any language which touches on Wales or the Welsh.
> 
> These forms continue for e.g. _Saesneg_/_Seising_ 'English', _Ffrangeg_/_Ffrengig_ 'French', _Llydaweg_/_Llydewig_ 'Breton' etc.
> 
> _Hwyl fawr_


Thanks for answer, but ther is a little misunderstanding: the most important terms in Your respective languages are those I after edition marked bold and red colour, it is names of [entities] nationality: this word itself e.g. may be omited: [E.g. občan České Republiky this may be omited (or not)]. Excuse me, that I didn't ask clearly the problem  .


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## kusurija

You're absolutely right, Sionees! Mistake repair:
1. *Státní příslušnost* (E.g. občan České Republiky _or/and_ občan Evropské Unie)


1. *Pilietybė* (E.g. Lietuvos Respublikos pilietis _or/and _Europos Sąjungos pilietis)


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## Mahaodeh

In Arabic, you can distinguish between:

1. جنسيّة - jinsiyya, the nationality in terms of citizenship; you would say "he has a British jinsiyya" to mean that he holds British civil papers of identity (passport, nationality...etc.) regardless of his actually being British. The word is derived from جنس - jins (type/class/genus).

2. قوميّة - qawmiyya, the nationality in terms of your ethnicity, the peoples you belong to in the vast term. As an example, Arab Nationalism is called القومية العربية - al-qawmiyya al-'arabiyya. The word is derived from قوم - qawm (people).

3. وطنيةّ - wataniyya, the nationality in terms of your place/country/region of birth; to explain the difference between the two you would say that X as an example is Syrian in terms of wataniyya and Arab in terms of qawmiyya. The word is derived from وطن - wattan (home in terms of land or country).

4. The mother toung is اللغة الأم - al-lugha al-umm (lit. the mother language) and refers only to language.


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## kusurija

Thanks for answers. Yes, this theme is somewhat pedantic and most people doesn't pay attention in such details, neither tend I (in some situations). 
But in case, when is needed to distinguish those terms, how to explain them in that respective language? (Most curious am I in *bold written* (1. and 3.) terms).

In Czech:
1. *Státní příslušnost* (E.g. občan České Republiky _or_ United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland _or _EU)(citizenship)
2. Obyvatel země/státu (E.g. Morava _or_ Wales(Cymru) _or_ Utah)(of which Country/state)
3. *Národnost* (E.g. - česká _or_ Cymreig) (ethnicity)
4. (Rodná řeč) (E.g. Čech _or_ česky mluvící _or_ Cymraeg) (mothertongue)


In Lithuanian:
1. *Pilietybė* (E.g. Lietuvos Respublikos pilietis _or/and _Europos Sąjungos pilietis)(citizenship)
2. Kurios žemės gyventojas (E.g. Žemaitijos _or_ Auktštaitijos))(of which Country/state)
3. *Tautybė* (E.g. Lietuvis)(ethnicity)
4. (Gimtoji kalba) (E.g. Lietuvių _or _lietuviškai kalbantis)


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## Outsider

kusurija said:


> In Czech:
> 1. *Státní příslušnost* (E.g. občan České Republiky _or_ United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland _or _EU)(citizenship)
> 2. Obyvatel země/státu (E.g. Morava _or_ Wales(Cymru) _or_ Utah)(of which Country/state)
> 3. *Národnost* (E.g. - česká _or_ Cymreig) (ethnicity)
> 4. (Rodná řeč) (E.g. Čech _or_ česky mluvící _or_ Cymraeg) (mothertongue)


One thing you're asking about, if I well understand, is whether there is a specific term for, say, Portuguese-speakers. Well, there are a few, but they are not used very much in everyday talk. They're more technical terms used by philologists, or linguists, and so on.

Examples:

1. _República Portuguesa_
2. _Açores, Algarve, Madeira_, etc.; _açoriano, algarvio, madeirense_, etc.
3. _Etnia cigana, etnia chinesa_, etc. 
4. _Lusófono_. This is very formal; in alternative, you will more often use an adjective phrase, such as _de expressão portuguesa_ (literally "of Portuguese expression"). But these are the kinds of qualifiers that you may read in the media or in formal contexts, but the man on the street will seldom use.

Another issue might be whether there is a separate term for "Portuguese" _as an ethnicity_. There is not. It's all _português_. There is, however, the term _lusodescendentes_, for the descendants of Portuguese immigrants to other countries.


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## kusurija

Outsider said:


> One thing you're asking about, if I well understand, is whether there is a specific term for, say, Portuguese-speakers. Well, there are a few, but they are not used very much in everyday talk. They're more technical terms used by philologists, or linguists, and so on.
> 
> Examples:
> 
> 1. _República Portuguesa_
> 2. _Açores, Algarve, Madeira_, etc.; _açoriano, algarvio, madeirense_, etc.
> 3. _Etnia cigana, etnia chinesa_, etc.
> 4. _Lusófono_. This is very formal; in alternative, you will more often use an adjective phrase, such as _de expressão portuguesa_ (literally "of Portuguese expression"). But these are the kinds of qualifiers that you may read in the media or in formal contexts, but the man on the street will seldom use.
> 
> Another issue might be whether there is a separate term for "Portuguese" _as an ethnicity_. There is not. It's all _português_. There is, however, the term _lusodescendentes_, for the descendants of Portuguese immigrants to other countries.


 
Nice! These are answers. Well now, how do You* ask questions* to get these answers? E.g. what is Your [1. ] citizenship? Ask in Portuguese. Answers to these questions are not the very theme of my post. 
I beg Your pardon that I can't explain it clearly. Sorry.

Question: 1. [(What is Your) *citizenship* [in Portuguese]]: *nacionalidade*
Answer: [not needed][may be "_República Portuguesa_" or any other (_República Checa_, ..., ...)]
And so on.


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## Outsider

Those nouns would be the ones I listed in my first post.


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## Nanon

From a French point of view:

1. Citizenship is *citoyenneté*. A citizen of the world = un citoyen (fem. une citoyenne) du monde. A European citizen = un citoyen européen, etc.
However what appears in one's ID, passport... is "nationalité française", meaning in fact that you are a French citizen (cf. Outsider's answer about Portugal).
1b. For an acquired nationality / citizenship, the word origin is used: "un Français d'origine portugaise".

2. Nationality is *nationalité*. 
France does not distinguish between 1 and 2 in official documents. 
Maybe some Belgians would like to declare themselves as "citoyens belges de nationalité flamande / de nationalité wallonne", but, ahem... I just wanted to take an example, not to bring a slippery topic !

3. A French speaker is a *francophone*, regardless of his / her nationality or citizenship. "Senghor, écrivain francophone". But this word often refers to French speakers outside France. "D'expression française", "de langue française" should cover everybody.


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## Encolpius

*In Hungarian: *

1. állampolgárság
2. nemzetiség
3. magyar anyanyelvű


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## Outsider

Outsider said:


> In government forms and such what you will find is the question "What is your nationality?", meaning your state/country, not your "nation". Like in English, as a matter of fact.


I wish to withdraw the side remark about English fom my previous post. I was not aware of it at the time, but in English "nation" can indeed refer to ethnicity as opposed to statehood/nationality in some contexts, for instance when referring to Native Americans.


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## Youngfun

Italian:

1. *cittadinanza*
2. *nazionalità*
3. *lingua materna* / *madrelingua*

Differently form other European languages, in Italian "cittadinanza" is always used for this meaning 1). Nazionalità is rarely used for 1).

Chinese:
1. *国籍* guo2 ji2
2.* 祖国* zu3 guo2 - literally: ancestor's country
3. *母语* mu3 yu3 - literally: mother tongue

The difference between 1. and 2. is clear. My 国籍 is currently Italian, but my 祖国 will always be China.


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## bibax

Former Czechoslovakia was a multi-ethnic state. The official documents (like birth or school certificates, ID cards, etc.) strictly distinguished "státní příslušnost" (= citizenship, _*affiliation with a state*_, Staatsbürgerschaft) and "národnost" (= lit. nationality in sense of 'ethnicity', _*affiliation with a nation/ethnicum*_, Nationalität/Völkerschaft). Both "státní příslušnost" and "národnost" items were obligatory in the official personal documents.

In my birth and school certificates I have:

*Státní příslušnost:* československá (Czechoslovak, i.e. I was a citizen of the now non-existent Czechoslovak state)
*Národnost:* česká (Czech, i.e. I was, am and always shall be a member of the historic Czech nation)

There was no Czechoslovak nationality-ethnicity (národnost), even the children from mixed Czech-Slovak marriages were either Czechs or Slovaks, never ethnic Czechoslovaks. The citizens of Czechoslovakia were mostly ethnic Czechs, Slovaks, Germans, Hungarians, Poles, Gypsies (officially národnost cikánská), Rusyns (Ruthenians, národnost rusínská), Ukrainians, Romanians, Greeks and others.

Národnost (nationality-ethnicity) was hereditary (automatically according to the father, or according to mother when the father was unknown) and could not be changed (it was like a hereditary desease ). Once a Mongol, always a Mongol.

After 1989 the "národnost" item was discarded from the official documents. It is still present in the census form.


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## LilianaB

From the point of view of the American legal system nationality equals citizenship, in all American documents. There is nothing like American citizen of German nationality, or Cherokee, or Spanish-speaking American citizen. I think this would all be considered discriminatory.

There was something like that in the old Soviet passports: citizen of the Soviet Union -- Lithuanian nationality, or Jewish even, although Jewish is more of a religion. Even now, in Russia, they still put nationality on Birth Certificates if the mother wants that -- only at the request of the mother, though. I don't think there was anything like that in Poland ever -- Polish citizen of Silesian, German, or Russian nationality. If someone really insisted on another nationality being assigned to them -- they simply had to leave the country.


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

_Nationality in terms of *ethnicity*_: Fem. noun *«εθνικότητα»* [eθni'kotita] < Modern construction (1833) *«ἐθνικότης»* [eθni'kotis] (fem. noun), in order to render the Fr. _nationalité_  --> lit. _ethnicity_ < Classical neut. noun *«ἔθνος» étʰnŏs* --> _nation, people; _PIE *swedʰ-nos, expanded form of *swedʰ-, _custom_ (cf. Proto-Germanic *sedu- > Ger. Sitte).
_Nationality in terms of *citizenship*_: 
*Α/* Fem. noun *«ιθαγένεια»* [iθa'ʝeni.a] < Modern construction (1848) in order to render the Fr. _indigénat_ --> _indigenity, indigenousness_ < Classical adj. *«ἰθαγενής, -ής, -ές» ĭtʰăgĕnḗs (masc. & fem.), ĭtʰăgĕnés (neut.)* (secondary form «ἰθαιγ-» ĭtʰæg-) --> _indigenous, native_ < compound, v. *«ἰθαίνω» ĭtʰǽnō* --> _to purify_ (PIE *ai-dʰ- /*i-dʰ-, _to burn_) + neut. noun *«γένος» génŏs* --> _race, kind_ (PIE *gen-, _to produce_).
*B/* Fem. noun *«υπηκοότητα»* [ipiko'otita] < Modern construction (1831) *«ὑπηκοότης»* [ipiko'otis] (fem. noun), in order to render the Fr. _sujétion_ < Classical adj. *«ὑπήκοος, -ος, -ον» hŭpḗkŏŏs (masc. & fem.), hŭpḗkŏŏn (neut.)* --> _obeying, subject_ < compound, prefix, preposition and adv. *«ὑπὸ» hupò* --> _under, below_ (PIE *upo-, _under_) + Classical fem. noun *«ἀκοὴ» ăkŏḕ* --> _hearing, sense of hearing_ (PIE *kew-/*skew-, _to notice, observe_).
 My identity card has *«ιθαγένεια»* [iθa'ʝeni.a], older cards had *«υπηκοότητα»* [ipiko'otita].


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## Youngfun

So does modern Greek have a lot of calques from French?


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## apmoy70

Youngfun said:


> So does modern Greek have a lot of calques from French?


Yes it does, mostly technical terms absent from the ancient/medieval vocabulary, yet, constructed by using Classical/Koine/Byzantine pre-existing words, e.g:
«Αὐτοκίνητον» [afto'ciniton] (neut.) < Fr. _automobile_ (in Fr. also a hybrid word)
«Προλιμήν» [proli'min] (masc.) < Fr. _avant-port_
«Πρόνοια» ['pronia] (fem.) < Fr. _provision_ (a clause in a legal instrument providing for a particular matter)
«Πυρόλιθος» [pi'roliθos] (masc.) < Fr. _pierre à feu_
«Ἀνοίξατε πῦρ!» [a'niksate pir!] < Fr. _ouvriez le feu!_
«Δακρυγόνο» [ðakri'ɣono] (neut.) < Fr. _lacrymogène_ (gaz)
etc.


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## Gavril

We never got a complete answer from Sionees five years ago regarding Welsh, so I'll try to provide one. 

*cenedligrwydd *means "nationality" in the sense of ethnicity, or the nation one identifies with. It's based on _cenedl _("nation" or "race") + the adjective suffix -_ig _+ the suffix -_rwydd_ which forms nouns from adjectives. I'm pretty sure that this word doesn't have the legal implications that Eng. _nationality _sometimes does.

The legal sense of "nationality" is covered by *dinasyddiaeth *"citizenship", which is composed of _dinas__ydd _"citizen" + the suffix -_(i)aeth_ (which forms nouns from adjectives and other nouns). _dinasydd _is itself formed somewhat like _citizen _and cognate terms: _dinas _"city" + the noun-forming suffix -_ydd.

_For one's native language, you can use the term *mamiaith *(< _mam _"mother" + _iaith_ "language") or the phrase *iaith frodorol *("native language").


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## mataripis

there is no written Tagalog word for Nationality but i know it is " tubo(h)  or origin in english .So Nationality= Tubong  Pilipinas-( name of country)


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