# competency - competence



## Gilherme

When talking about*  "communicative competence"*  could you also say *"communicative competency"*  can these two words be used interchangeably? or Do they have different meanings? or Which is correct to say?

THANKS!! GILHERME.


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## Dimcl

Gilherme said:


> When talking about* "communicative competence"* could you also say *"communicative competency"* can these two words be used interchangeably? or Do they have different meanings? or Which is correct to say?
> 
> THANKS!! GILHERME.


 
Hi Gilherme.  Good question!  Frankly, I'm not sure I'd use either of these phrases but if I had to choose, I'd say that you couldn't use "communicative competency".  Competence is something you *have *so I would say "communication competency" ie. "I hired you because of your competency to communicate in English".  You wouldn't say "I hired you because of your competency in being communicative in English".   You might also say "I hired you because of your competency in English" but then you're leaving the word "communicate" entirely out of the sentence.  I'm not a grammarian so I can't explain it in grammatical terms but let's hope somebody jumps in who can.


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## gaer

Dimcl said:


> Hi Gilherme. Good question! Frankly, I'm not sure I'd use either of these phrases but if I had to choose, I'd say that you couldn't use "communicative competency". Competence is something you *have *so I would say "communication competency" ie. "I hired you because of your competency to communicate in English". You wouldn't say "I hired you because of your competency in being communicative in English". You might also say "I hired you because of your competency in English" but then you're leaving the word "communicate" entirely out of the sentence. I'm not a grammarian so I can't explain it in grammatical terms but let's hope somebody jumps in who can.


What exactly does "competency" mean? The only info I found was a link to "competence"!

For instance, I would write ""competency hearing", not ""competence hearing", but I have no idea why.  

Gaer


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## Robbo

I think you will find both competence and competency used interchangeably in the context of skills required for a job; you certainly should not read any difference of meaning in this context in BE.

OALD says that "competence" is more frequently found than "competency" and I think that "competence" is better anyway (but I cannot give convincing reasons why).

For completeness, I must mention other usages of competence.  

"It is outside this court's competence to hear the case."  [legal authority]
OR:
"The doctors tested the patient's mental competence."  [overall mental condition]

I believe that in those legal and medical contexts, "competence" is always used, not "competency". 

Robbo


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## Dimcl

gaer said:


> What exactly does "competency" mean? The only info I found was a link to "competence"!
> 
> For instance, I would write ""competency hearing", not ""competence hearing", but I have no idea why.
> 
> Gaer


 
"Competency" is the state of being qualified, capable or competent.  A "competency hearing" is a hearing to determine your competence.  If I am "able", I have "ability", if I am "virile", I have "virility", if I am "competent", I have "competency".


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## Porteño

I would agree with Robbo. In fact there was a recent thread in the English-Spanish forum where some confusion arose as to the use of these two words. Personally, I don't think I would ever use 'competency'.


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## gaer

Robbo said:


> OALD says that "competence" is more frequently found than "competency" and I think that "competence" is better anyway (but I cannot give convincing reasons why).
> 
> For completeness, I must mention other usages of competence.
> 
> "It is outside this court's competence to hear the case." [legal authority]


There I would definitely agree by feel.
OR:


> "The doctors tested the patient's mental competence." [overall mental condition]


There I think "competency" is sometimes used. "Competence" sounds best to me though.


Dimcl said:


> "Competency" is the state of being qualified, capable or competent. A "competency hearing" is a hearing to determine your competence. If I am "able", I have "ability", if I am "virile", I have "virility", if I am "competent", I have "competency".


 
Hmm. Let's go back to this:

"The doctors tested the patient's mental competence."
"The doctors tested the patient's mental ability."

Following your logic, I would use "mental competency". Why does "competence" sound better to me there?  

Gaer


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## panjandrum

I have wondered for years about the difference between these words.

This time, I thought to look in Fowler:


> Neither competence nor competency has any sense in which the other cannot be used; the first form is gaining on the second (1926).
> ... competence is now markedly more frequent than competency (1998).


Well, I can sit back and relax then


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## river

Bryan Garner disagrees with Henry Fowler here:

_Competency_ is unnecessary in all but its legal sense: "the ability to understand problems and make decisions; the ability to stand trial." A severly mentally retarded person is said to have mental _incompetency_.


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## gaer

river said:


> Bryan Garner disagrees with Henry Fowler here:
> 
> _Competency_ is unnecessary in all but its legal sense: "the ability to understand problems and make decisions; the ability to stand trial." A severly mentally retarded person is said to have mental _incompetency_.


link
MENTAL INCOMPETENCE - The inability of a person to make or carry out important decisions regarding his or her affairs. 

BUT:

link
Mental Incompetency Act

AND:

link
Standard 7-5.4 Mental incompetence at time of noncapital appeal

Not even the law seems to be fully in agreement!

Gaer


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## Gilherme

panjandrum said:


> I have wondered for years about the difference between these words.
> 
> This time, I thought to look in Fowler:
> Well, I can sit back and relax then


 
*"Neither competence nor competency has any sense in which the other cannot be used; the first form is gaining on the second (1926).*
*... competence is now markedly more frequent than competency (1998)". Fowler *quoted by Panjandrum

It seems to me this quote gives a solid background to know where these two terms are coming from, independantly of the fields still use *competency*, it is clear the fact that *competence* has become more common in current usage. to set an example, I am an English teacher and throughout all my years of instruction I have always encounter the term *"communicative competence"* to refer to the ability to comminicate "succesfully" in the target language, with all the communicative skills needed to do so. but a doubt arose when I found a document by the Ministry of Education of my country where the term *communicative competency *was used interchangeably.

*Many thanks to all!*

*Gilherme.*


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## gaer

Gilherme said:


> *"Neither competence nor competency has any sense in which the other cannot be used; the first form is gaining on the second (1926).*
> *... competence is now markedly more frequent than competency (1998)". Fowler *quoted by Panjandrum
> 
> It seems to me this quote gives a solid background to know where these two terms are coming from,


I think that as a general rule you can simply use "competency" in almost all situations in which both seem possible.

However, I do think this is important to note:

Results 1 - 10 of about 548 for "competence hearing". (0.21 seconds)

Results 1 - 10 of about 95,700 for "competency hearing". 

There MAY be some set phrases in which one form or the other is normally used. I believe this is one such example. There may be others. Since I know nothing about law, I mentioned "competency hearing" simply because it is something I have heard. 

Gaer


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## pandinorombante

Hi folks,

what's the difference between competence (competences) and competency (competencies)?

Thanks in advance!

PR


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## TimLA

pandinorombante said:


> Hi folks,
> 
> what's the difference between competence (competences) and competency (competencies)?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> PR


 
Small world!

competence - noun - the quality of being competent
competency - noun - the quality of being competent, but also can be used as a "task".

His competence is unsurpassed.
His competency at reading is superb for his age.
You have three more competencies to complete before I can certify you.

Do you have something specific that's bothering you that might help us provide more details?


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## pandinorombante

Not exactly, I just bumped into "competencies" and a doubt arised in my mind.. Great explanation, Tim, thanks a lot!


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## dreamy76

Hello,

I have read this thread and I have a question concerning competencies, I looked this word up in Oxford dictionary and it says it is uncountable. So how it comes here as plural, does it mean that it can be singular and plural?

Many Thanks


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## TimLA

dreamy76 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I have read this thread and I have a question concerning competencies, I looked this word up in Oxford dictionary and it says it is uncountable. So how it comes here as plural, does it mean that it can be singular and plural?
> 
> Many Thanks


 
I think the OED may be referring to the usual use of "competency" - the quality of being competent.

The atypical form is used as a "task" to prove your competence.

One of the competencies of this company is...

I have one...competency....to complete to finish this course.
I have one...exercise/test...to complete to finish this course.

I have three...competencies.....to complete to finish this course.
I have three...exercises/tests...to complete to finish this course.

Here are some links that use the word "competencies" in this way:
http://managementhelp.org/staffing/specify/cmptncys/cmptncys.htm
http://www.microsoft.com/education/competencies/default.mspx
http://www.cste.org/dnn/Home/CSTEFeatures/Competencies/tabid/174/Default.aspx


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## pandinorombante

As Tim said, I think "competency" meant as task can be plural, therefore "competencies"; if you mean "the quality of being competent", then probably it's uncountable and you don't need the plural. 

Though, I still don't know whether "competences" or "competencies" should be used..


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## panjandrum

I don't see how _competencies _could be considered uncountable.
_Competence _can be countable or uncountable, as can _competency_, but it seems to me that _competencies _is the plural form of countable _competency_.

I have not come across the use of _competency _to mean _a task_.
I had a quick look on TimLA's linked sites and was not able to find an example of such usage.
Can you give us some real examples?


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## TimLA

panjandrum said:


> I don't see how _competencies _could be considered uncountable.
> _Competence _can be countable or uncountable, as can _competency_, but it seems to me that _competencies _is the plural form of countable _competency_.
> 
> I have not come across the use of _competency _to mean _a task_.
> I had a quick look on TimLA's linked sites and was not able to find an example of such usage.
> Can you give us some real examples?


 
I'm most familiar with the use of "competencies" used in a hospital setting as a set of "abilities" or "ability to perform tasks" as noted here:

http://www.hartfordign.org/Resources/hospital_competencies/

I have also heard the phrases I cited above used in the manner of "I have to do more (study sessions and tests/competencies) before I am approved to work in the ICU"


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## panjandrum

Having worked in a competence-based training and performance management context that terminology is familiar, but I still don't get the feeling that a competency is a task

Doesn't "do more competencies" mean, really, "acquire more competencies" or "become credited with more competencies"?


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## lablady

I think I see what TimLA means by the use of competencies meaning to perform a task.

In my local hospital, we use competencies as a means of evaluation. Therefore, when someone is "doing their competencies", they are doing tasks that prove their ability to competently perform the procedure. It's somewhat like a test. This use of "competency" may be unique to AE and/or the medical field.


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## JulianStuart

If you've watched gymnastics you will have heard them talk about "skills" in an analogous fashion - rather than its original meaning of "degree of _capability_ (or, even, competence)" in an action it refers to the _performance _of the specific move - as in "She has three more skills to do and she needs to complete them flawlessly to finish in medal contention".  It seems to be short for "proof of possession or display of skill", and that might work for the current thread too.


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## panjandrum

Thanks for the further explanations.  I was used to an environment in which proficiency in the competencies was based on continuous assessment, not a specific set of activities designed to demonstrate such proficiency.
I can see how the terminology moves


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## Dario Polski

I know ths is an old thread, but I thought I'd put my two cents in.

From an HR perspective, I have seen "competency" used more than "competence" as a countable noun. 

I would use "Competence" as an uncountable noun, as in:   "His level of competence in this field is remarkable" 

and "competency" as similar to "skill", as in: "The core competencies required for the position are communication, leadership ability and negotiation skills"


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## se16teddy

Dario Polski said:


> From an HR perspective, I have seen "competency" used more than "competence" as a countable noun.
> I would use "Competence" as an uncountable noun, as in: "His level of competence in this field is remarkable"


This agrees with my experience of British civil service HR practice.


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## Wordsmyth

An old but seemingly durable thread, so I thought I'd crawl out of the woodwork and add my two-penn'orth. Firstly on the apparent evolution of usage ...

From panj's post #8, 





> Neither competence nor competency has any sense in which the other cannot be used; the first form is gaining on the second (1926).
> ... competence is now markedly more frequent than competency (1998).


Fowler seems to suggest that "competency" was predominant pre-1926, but that somewhere between then and 1998 "competence" took the lead. Indeed, for most of my life (starting long after 1926!) I had heard only "competence". I have started coming across "competency" only in the last few years, but increasingly so, and most often in AE. I thought for a while that it was a 'mistaken' back-form from the plural "competences" being 'incorrectly' pronounced "competencies". But maybe it's just a swing back to pre-1926?

Of course my personal preference is for "competence" (it's what I'm used to, innit?). Also I feel it's more logical. Borrowing Dimcl's approach (post #5) ... 





Dimcl said:


> _[...]_ If I am "able", I have "ability", if I am "virile", I have "virility", if I am "competent", I have "competency".


 ... But "able" and "virile" don't end in "-ent/-ant", where the norm is to form the noun with "-ence/-ance". So if I'm _present, violent, vehement, impotent, incontinent, important, ignorant, competent_ ... my state is that of _presence, violence, vehemence, impotence, incontinence, importance, ignorance, competence_ (hopefully not all at once; some preferably not at all!) ... and *not* _presency, violency, vehemency, impotency, incontinency, importancy, ignorancy_, ... and so (for me) not _competency_.

Food for thought

Ws


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## alphasun

Trust Fowler. This "competency" thing is just a business/provincial and possibly also N. American usage. It's certainly popular in business and bureaucratic circles here in Ireland. An extra syllable is always prized by those in authority.
Competency has a horrible facility about it and I suspect that it may triumph but apparently not yet.
(I'm an English major, Ph.D and writer by the way and actually care about this stuff!)


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## tempehuck

Porteño said:


> I would agree with Robbo. In fact there was a recent thread in the English-Spanish forum where some confusion arose as to the use of these two words. Personally, I don't think I would ever use 'competency'.



I agree. I have seen people in a few specific fields (such as medicine) claim there is a difference between competence and competency with regard to their specific field (a difference artificially defined by them), but in general English usage there is no difference. "Competency" is merely a word to satisfy people who feel an irrational, compulsive need to stick "cy" on the end of perfectly good English words like "competence." Another example would be "relevancy." Those "cy" folks are just so silly! 

Huck


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## JulianStuart

Welcome to the Forum 

English speakers can get collectively silly over the years - and OED helps us understand the differenciness for those words where it exists 


> From the OED on -ance and -ancy.
> 
> *-ancy* : _suffix_.  Mod. Eng. var. of -ance, expressing _quality, state_ or _condition_, as opp. to _action_ (Fr. -ance).  Many words orig. in _-nce_ have been refash. accordingly, as _constancy, infancy_ , etc.
> 
> *-ency* a suffix signifying properly quality or state.  *Where the same word exists in both the -ence and -ency forms,* the former is usually restricted to action or process, the latter to quality; cf. _coherence_ and _coherency_.  See also _- ancy._


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## Wordsmyth

Now that's interesting, Julian. Much as I (sometimes) respect the OED, I'm having a problem with their definition of _-ency_. Actually I've never heard of _coherency_, but if they say so ...! 

However, if we applied their principle to _competence/competency_, we would have: 
"He is a very competent person; in fact his most outstanding quality is his competency". (I would say "competence" there, and have indeed seen and heard it used often with that sense).  

Then, by the OED definition, "competence" would be restricted to the action or process. I'm trying hard to see how competence can be an action or process. I'm imagining something like "His colleagues admired his competence in solving the problem". OK, there's an action in there, but to my mind _solving_ is the action and _his competence_ is still the quality that enabled him to do it well. 

Unless someone convinces me that _competence_ can be an action or process, it seems to me that the OED is suggesting that _competence_ should never be used!   (Or maybe they would wriggle out of it by citing the "usually" in their definition).

Ws


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## JulianStuart

Yup - it's the _usually_ that protects their addendum 
In this case, the 1971 big OED gives some definitions of competence and competency that are the same - hence the "usually"

Post #7 from this thread at Wordsmith.org (not wordsmyth.org, unfortunately ) has some support and a few examples, but the link it refers to is dead



> ....(iii) Those which exist in both forms, usually with clearly distinguishable meanings: dependence, the state of being dependent; dependency, (especially) a country or province controlled by another; emergence, a coming to light; emergency, a sudden state of danger; excellence, the state of excelling; Excellency (in His (etc.) Excellency, used as a term of address, principally to ambassadors,


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## Wordsmyth

Thanks for that, JS. I didn't know Wordsmith.org existed. Having read the thread, I conclude that the quality/action/process concept is far from universal, and that there are different interpretations of different occurences of _-ence/-ency_, varying from the 'completely synonymous' through the 'maybe there's a nuance' to the 'two clearly different meanings'. So it's probably better to address usage case-by-case, rather than look for rules.

I'd say that _competence/competency_ fit into the 'synonymous' case. Some people use one, some the other, to mean the same thing; but I'd be surprised to find anyone using both with separate meanings (apart from Huck's 'silly folks' [post #29]). 

Ws


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## JulianStuart

Wordsmyth said:


> Thanks for that, JS. I didn't know Wordsmith.org existed. Having read the thread, I conclude that the quality/action/process concept is far from universal, and that there are different interpretations of different occurences of _-ence/-ency_, varying from the 'completely synonymous' through the 'maybe there's a nuance' to the 'two clearly different meanings'. So it's probably better to address usage case-by-case, rather than look for rules.
> 
> I'd say that _competence/competency_ fit into the 'synonymous' case. Some people use one, some the other, to mean the same thing; but I'd be surprised to find anyone using both with separate meanings (apart from Huck's 'silly folks' [post #29]).
> 
> Ws


Agreed! Perhaps the OED would have better advised us if they had uses the word "sometimes" rather than usually


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## jarabina

> I'd say that _competence/competency_ fit into the 'synonymous'  case. Some people use one, some the other, to mean the same thing; but  I'd be surprised to find anyone using both with separate meanings (apart  from Huck's 'silly folks' [post #29]).



I just wanted to add that in some fields, particularly education, there is a distinct difference between competencies and competences and these differences affect things like curriculum design for instance. For those interested in the way these words are used in education, see http://www.infed.org/biblio/b-comp.htm


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## Wordsmyth

That's interesting, jarabina. We've already established that the OED's general remark on _-ence _(action or process) vs _-ency _(quality) doesn't seem to apply to _competence/competency_. Now, in the article you linked, we see a distinction that's virtually the opposite of the OED's:

In this way the first, capacity, sense of the term _[competence__]_ refers to the evaluation of persons; whereas the second, dispositional, sense _[competency__]_ refers to activities.

... which just goes to show the importance, when using technical or context-specific vocabulary, of ensuring that one's audience/readership will understand it as intended — or, if not, of clearly defining the terminology. I suspect that the education-specific distinction, in this case, was probably an arbitrary choice at some point in the past, but satisfied a particular need and so became an 'industry standard'.

Ws


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## swannny

<<Moderator note:  swanny's question has been appended to a prior discussion with the same title>>

Hello ^^ 

It is a question about the difference between two terms. I have heard from unofficial sources that those two words are merely synonyms and there is actually no differnce between them ! But, I have recently discovered another difference 
when reading a research paper in education :

Competence = is used at the level of " adequateness" 
Competency= is used at the level of " experience" especially when you have fully acquired something . 

Can you tell me if these definitions are only specialized terms in this field of study ? 

Can they be generalized to other fields ? 

From an English native speaker's position , are you aware of the difference between these terms ? How do you see that 

Thanks in advance ^^


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## owlman5

They are synonyms to me, Swannny.  If other people do make the distinction you have noted, I'm not aware of it.


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## jarabina

The distinction in education is very clear cut, but I don't think it extends to other fields. I seem to remember replying to another thread on this. Try doing a search.

<<Thanks jarabina - your recollection is good  I have appended this thread to that exact discussion >>


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## entangledbank

'Competency' is a jargon word in that sort of writing, seldom used outside it, and is commonly used as plural too: core competencies, etc. My impression is that 'competence' is, however, also used in the same way in such writing, rather than being the normal abstract noun it is for most of us. If there was a difference in use between them, within the same text, it would probably be along the lines you have suggested.


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## JulianStuart

<<Moderator note.  Posts from#37 onwards were added to a prior discussion. Please read from the top>>


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