# hacque in re



## Vladimir Nimčević

Magistratus Oppidanus in Causis civilibus oppidanos afficientibus hactenus in sede dominali pertractatis primae Instantiae Judicem salva ad sedem dominalem Appellata _constituat_, hacque in re, et mox attingendis Operationibus suis juxta dandas sibi ulteriores Inviationes _procedat_

I found this regulation in the privilege granted by the Austro-Hungarian monarch Francis to the town of Vršac.
I am not sure if I have understood it correctly.
I don't know what _hacque in re_ is supposed to refer to in this context. What case does the author talk about?


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## Sobakus

_In Jūdice cōnstituendō_, I suppose - it techincally refers to the entirety of the previous clause, so I gave its core constituents.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Sobakus said:


> _In Jūdice cōnstituendō_, I suppose - it techincally refers to the entirety of the previous clause, so I gave its core constituents.


That is some really convenient observation. By the way, has the word hactenus any other purpose in this context other than a temporal meaning?

It sounds like the author of the texts wants to say that before the Magistrate of the town of Vršac was granted permission for processing some cases they had fallen under the jurisdiction of the Manorial Court (Sedes Dominalis).


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## Sobakus

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> That is some really convenient observation. By the way, has the word hactenus any other purpose in this context other than a temporal meaning?


Unfortunately you didn't give the full sentence (period) so it's impossible to know, but I don't see how it can have a temporal meaning - this is a law issued for the future, not a statement about what transpired.


Vladimir Nimčević said:


> It sounds like the author of the texts wants to say that before the Magistrate of the town of Vršac was granted permission for processing some cases they had fallen under the jurisdiction of the Manorial Court (Sedes Dominalis).


See above. _salvā ad sēdem dominālem __Appellātā_ apparently means "reserving the right to appeal _(fellebbezés)_ to the landlord's court _(úriszék)_".


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Here are all regulations relating to the newly acquired status of the town of Vršac

Frankly, I don't see any word that can be brought into connection with hactenus. Maybe I missed something 

Ideo praememoratum Locum Cameralem Verschetz intra Ambitum Comitatus Temessiensis situm, de Plenitudine Potestatis, et Auctoritatis nostrae Regiae in numerum reliquorum Privilegiatorum Oppidorum Nostrorum recipiendum, cooptandum, et _adlegendum_ _esse duximus_, ex certa nostra scientia, animoque deliberato benignissime concedentes, ut a modo imposterum: *Primo* Oppidi hujus gemina antehac, sed jam coalita communitas in complexo sumpta, Judicem, et Sex Senatores, e quorum numero unus consulem _agat_, secundus Inspectionem Politiae, tertius montium Magistri munus, quartus Inspectionem et Curam sylvae, quintus Reparationem Viarum, Pontium, et occurrentium aedificiorum communitatis Inspectionem _habeat_, atque gerat, sextus denique Protocollum praestitarum Praejuncturarum publicarum accurate _ducat_, ex candidandis per Cameralem Administrationem, aut hujus ad hunc actum exmittendum Individuum utriusque Nationis subjectis _eligat_, et suis temporibus _restauret_, electa quoq communitate ad Numerum Quinquaginta Virorum, Notario item, & Cancellista, Cassae Contributionalis, et domesticae distinctis Perceptoribus, etc: Pupillorum Curatore liberis perinde Votis _constitui_ debentibus. *Secundo*: Magistratus Oppidanus in Causis civilibus oppidanos afficientibus hactenus in sede dominali pertractatis primae Instantiae Judicem salva ad sedem dominalem Appellata _constituat_, hacque in re, et mox attingendis Operationibus suis juxta dandas sibi ulteriores Inviationes procedat. *Tertio*: Idem Magistratus in Negotiis quoque Criminalibus leviores reatus plectendi Activitate _polleat_ Jure Gladii, adeoque graviorum Delictorum sub actionem criminalem cadentium cognitione penes concernentem Jurisdictionem permanente. *Quarto*: Magistratui _incumbet_, ab utriusque Cassae Perceptoribus, Orphanorum item Curatore periodicas _exigere_ Rationes, hasque sub Praesidio localis Officiolatus cum Influxa selectae Communitatis _censurare_, ac medio moxfati Officiolatus Officinae Rationariae pro Superrevisione _substernere_; salva pro re nata legali censura. *Quinto*: siquidem oppidanae huic Communitati _incumberet_ internae Securitati suae, bonoque ordini conservando _intentam esse_, ideo _integrum erit_ eidem servitores quoque, utpote: Satrapas necessarios cum Ductore, nocturnos Circulatores, et Tympanotribam pro Publicationibus _constituere_. *Sexto*: Jure Patronatus, et successionis in Caducitatibus penes Dominium relicto: _concedimus_ benigne, et _conferimus_ antelatae coadunatae Communitati Verschetz praeter praehabitas hactenus legali Privilegio destitutas, adeoque in solo Usu longiore fundatas duas quidem annuas, videlicet Dominica Palmarum, et Festo Sancti Lucae utrobique Graeci Ritus, ac unam hebdomadalem Die Jovis _celebrari_ solitas, adhuc tertii etiam ordinis annuas Nundinas die Septima Augusti Styli novi retenta, quae hactenus _obtinebat_, localitate eo Jure, et modo celebrandas, quo in aliis Privilegio eatenus seorsivo provisis Oppidis celebrari in Regno _assolerent_, ea per expressum adjecta cum Declaratione, ut ubi ipsa annorum serie praemissi Celebrationi Nundinarum praefixi Dies in diem Dominicum, aut Fori Festum _inciderint_, Casum in illum Nundinae diebus hunc, aut tale Festum praecedentibus, vel proxime sequentibus, nunquam autem Dominico, vel Fori Festo celebrentur. *Septimo*: Admittimus praeterea benigne, et _indulgemus_, ut in Oppido hoc Taxa Ponderum Depositoriorum, ac Fori juxta Tariffam, et Regulas; audito praevie concernente Temessiensi Comitatu per Nos aequa Proportione statuendas, _desumatur_: *Octavo*: Integrum _sit_ etiam Communitati huic in Gremio sui concivilitatem _constituere_, et ab iis, qui Concivilitatem _ingressi_ _fuerint_ in subsidium cassae Domesticae quatuor florenos pro Immatriculatione _desumere_. *Nono*: Quemadmodum Debitorum Intabulatio porro quoque Conformitate Legis penes Comitatum _permanebit_, ita vetitum _esse_ _volumus_, ne Fundorum sub Onere publico constitutorum Venditiones, Emptiones, Cambiationes, Oppignorationes absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum Insinuatione, illicque procuranda Improtocollatione sub Invigorositate Actus secus instituendi _fiant_; salvo Jure Dominii et contractu in vicem urbarii Oppidanis extradato, quem in omnibus suis Punctis, et Clausulis _observari_ clementer _jubemus_.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

On second thought, I think see what he wants to say _in Causis civilibus oppidanos afficientibus hactenus in sede dominali pertractatis_

The judge (judex) appointed by the Magistrate of Vršac has the right to initiate a lawsuit in the Lord's Court as long as the lawsuit is related to the citizens of Vršac.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

I read read here that the judge of first instance was in fact a city office (Magistratus Oppidanus) by itself

Judex primae Instantiae, etiam hic, est Magistratus Oppidanus 

Appelallatio inde fit ad Sedem Dominalem, tum ad Sedriam Comitatus, et sic porro ad mentem legum


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## Vladimir Nimčević

So maybe the verb _constituere _is in this case identical to the verb esse meaning: to resemble, represent, am I right?


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## Sobakus

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> So maybe the verb _constituere _is in this case identical to the verb esse meaning: to resemble, represent, am I right?


Initially I thought that this is only possible in regards to a sum of the parts, but the text is replete with modern juridical jargon so it now seems to be entirely possible, cf. English "constitute". This would also accomodate _hāctenus_ as meaning "for the time being" and _hācque in rē prōcēdat_ would then refer to the Magistrate's fulfilling of his responsibilities as the Judge of first instance.

Still, this would be an extremely confusing choice since _cōnstituere_ is the default choice to express "appoint".


Vladimir Nimčević said:


> The judge (judex) appointed by the Magistrate of Vršac has the right to initiate a lawsuit in the Lord's Court as long as the lawsuit is related to the citizens of Vršac.


This would require _hāctenus_ be a postposition (which it isn't in normal Latin) and to govern a small clause while this clause already has a different syntactic function (modifying _causīs)_, resulting in tautology in addition to an inappropriate _zeugma_ or something similar: "in cases affecting the citizens as far as affecting the citizens".


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## Sobakus

Just looked at it another time and: _hactenus in sede dominali pertractatis_ is a straightforward "that have been conducted in the seat of the County up to this point". That is to say it _is_ temporal after all, and I think I missed this because I was reading _pertractātīs_ as _pertractandīs._

This also means that the office of the Judge of First Instance is being transferred from the seat of the County to the town of Vršac; but it doesn't seem to mean that the Magistrate is being appointed the Judge - he's being required to appoint one.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

So the only question remains wheter *constituere *means esse or something else. If I have understood you correctly you also think that _appoint _is the more suitable choice in this context. Yet, you leave the possibility that constituere could be interpreted in a different way, to be precise in a more modern way, because of all those legal terms that are inherent in modern law.

The verb constituere is used four times and as far I see its meaning in all these cases is not too different.

1 -- Incolarum ... hactenus diversas duas germanicam videlicet, et illyricam Communitatem constituentium - "the citizens ... who since they have been divided into (or have made up) two different communities, German and Serbian", or more literally, "citizens ... who since they have established two different communities"

2 -- to appoint or constitute (make up) judge (judicem ... constituat)

3 -- to establish (grant) citizenship (concivilitatem constituere) 

4 -- the estates put under the public burden (tax) - (Fundorum sub Onere publico constitutorum), 

Examples:

Posteaquam igitur nominibus Incolarum Loci Nostri Cameralis Verschetz Comitatui Temessiensi adjacentis, hactenus _diversas duas germanicam videlicet, et illyricam Communitatem *constituentium *_humillima cum Instantia in eo Majestati Nostrae supplicatum _exstitisset_, quatenus Eosdem in unum Corpus _redigere_, benignoque Privilegio exemptivo _condecorare_ _dignaremur

Secundo: Magistratus Oppidanus in Causis civilibus oppidanos afficientibus hactenus in sede dominali pertractatis primae Instantiae Judicem salva ad sedem dominalem Appellata *constituat*_

Octavo: Integrum _sit_ etiam Communitati huic in Gremio sui concivilitatem _*constituere*_, et ab iis, qui Concivilitatem _ingressi_ _fuerint_ in subsidium cassae Domesticae quatuor florenos pro Immatriculatione _desumere_

Nono: Quemadmodum Debitorum Intabulatio porro quoque Conformitate Legis penes Comitatum _permanebit_, ita vetitum _esse_ _volumus_, ne Fundorum sub Onere publico *constitutorum *Venditiones, Emptiones, Cambiationes, Oppignorationes absque debita apud Magistratum Oppidanum Insinuatione, illicque procuranda Improtocollatione sub Invigorositate Actus secus instituendi _fiant_; salvo Jure Dominii et contractu in vicem urbarii Oppidanis extradato, quem in omnibus suis Punctis, et Clausulis _observari_ clementer _jubemus_


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Im Jahre 1804 wurde Werschetz mit dem Markt-Privilegium betheilt, in eine einzige politische Gemeinde vereinigt, und unter einen aus beiden Nationen gewählten Magistrat gestelllt. Dieser für die vereinigte Gemeinde eingesetzte *Magistrat *bestand aus dem Richter, Bürgermeister, fünf Senatoren, zwei Notären, zwei Kanzelisten, Kämmerer, Steuereinnehmer, Waisenverwalter ec., und *verhandelte *die Civil-Rechtsstreite in der ersten Instanz, von welcher die Berufung an der Herrenstuhl, dann an die Comitats-Sedria, und an die königliche Curia ihren Zug nahm. Kleine Vergehen wurden beim Magistrate abgethan, grössere aber, die unter einer Kriminal-Aktion verfielen, urtheilte die Criminal-Sedria des Comitats ab.

Aleksandar Stojačković, the author of these lines, an expert on Hungarian Laws, and also a younger contemporary of people who were credited with the fact that Vršac (Werschetz) had been given the aforementioned privilege, says that die ... Magistrat ... verhandelte die Civil-Rechtsstreite in der ersten Instanz.

I think that constituere is, after all, an another term, more suitable to legal terminology for esse, meaning to represent, make up.


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## Sobakus

All of the other examples are normal uses of the verb - "to make up; to appoint". I find it used in the meaning "to pledge", but _cōnstituēns_ is said to mean "he who appoints, delegates someone else to perform their duties". I've never seen this verb used in the sense "to be": with agents it means "to appoint", and with patients "to make up".

Since "to appoint" and "to be" are syntactically identical but mutually exclusive meanings that cannot be distinguished in any way, and since one of them is attested and ubiquotous ("to appoint") while the other ("to be") I've not seen attested anywhere and can surmise only circumstantially, I have to go with the Latin meaning.

Any way this German quote clears up the case - I thought the Magistrate was referring to a single person who performed different duties, while actually it's an institution. This institution appoints a Judge as part of itself. The institution thus _verhandelt die Civil-Rechtsstreite_ insofar as one of its members does this.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Sobakus said:


> All of the other examples are normal uses of the verb - "to make up; to appoint". I find it used in the meaning "to pledge", but _cōnstituēns_ is said to mean "he who appoints, delegates someone else to perform their duties". I've never seen this verb used in the sense "to be": with agents it means "to appoint", and with patients "to make up".
> 
> Since "to appoint" and "to be" are syntactically identical but mutually exclusive meanings that cannot be distinguished in any way, and since one of them is attested and ubiquotous ("to appoint") while the other ("to be") I've not seen attested anywhere and can surmise only circumstantially, I have to go with the Latin meaning.
> 
> Any way this German quote clears up the case - I thought the Magistrate was referring to a single person who performed different duties, while actually it's an institution. This institution appoints a Judge as part of itself. The institution thus _verhandelt die Civil-Rechtsstreite_ insofar as one of its members does this.


Yes. It makes sense.

On the other hand, the above quoted statement saying Magistratus cujusvis loci, est Judex primae instantiae makes me confused. So I am not sure whether the judge is delegated by the Magistratus, or all members of the Magistratus participate equally in a case as one juridical body, in other words collectively forming the primae instantiae Judex

In the meantime, I found two more instances of the use of the verb constituere.

Anno 809 concluso bello gallico, patria sua exules Comitatus Tyrolis _*Incolas *_majori numero ad Banatum _inviatos_, praecipua in parte in aegeno ac longinquo hoc itinere exhausto statu *constitutos*, non tantum gratuito foco tecto et victu liberaliter exceperint, et ultra integrum annum _foverit_, verum etiam molli banatico climati minus assuetos, ac propterea copiosiori numero aegre decumbentes, ad Xenodochium suum, laudabili cum hospitalitate assumpserit, ac omnibus necessariis, imo etiam commoditatibus solertissime providerit

"ex congregatione Populorum unam Civitatem, seu corpus politicum constituentium"

So I guess the verb could also mean to form, to constitute, to put, to bring depending on the context

If I am not wrong, the first instance translated into English reads "to be brought into an exhausting state"

The text is full of words of ambiguous meaning. Take for example the verb arceo. We know that in Classic Latin it means to defend, to box in, but in this context it has a different meaning, something like to cut it down and put to fire.

anno autem 762 pestilentia ad loca finitima irrepente, infectas Vicinas Possessiones, Ulma et Pavliss, ne contagio ultro serperet, Corona Custodum e numero sui cinxerit, praehabitasque propria industria enutritas privatas Sylvulas, ad focum, arcendo a Custodibus frigori exstructum prorsus exciderint


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## Sobakus

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> On the other hand, the above quoted statement saying Magistratus cujusvis loci, est Judex primae instantiae makes me confused. So I am not sure whether the judge is delegated by the Magistratus, or all members of the Magistratus participate equally in a case as one juridical body, in other words collectively forming the primae instantiae Judex


I can't find this statement in this thread, but if you found it in the document, this interpretation would certainly be possible: the different Magistrate members legally amount to one Judge.


Vladimir Nimčević said:


> So I guess the verb could also mean to form, to constitute, to put, to bring depending on the context
> 
> If I am not wrong, the first instance translated into English reads "to be brought into an exhausting state"


It's _-tūtōs_ not -_tuendōs _- that use does look strange but still falls under the "make up" meaning like all the other synonyms you gave.


Vladimir Nimčević said:


> The text is full of words of ambiguous meaning. Take for example the verb arceo. We know that in Classic Latin it means to defend, to box in, but in this context it has a different meaning, something like to cut it down and put to fire.
> 
> anno autem 762 pestilentia ad loca finitima irrepente, infectas Vicinas Possessiones, Ulma et Pavliss, ne contagio ultro serperet, Corona Custodum e numero sui cinxerit, praehabitasque propria industria enutritas privatas Sylvulas, ad focum, arcendo a Custodibus frigori exstructum prorsus exciderint


_arcendō frīgorī _is "to keep away the cold", showing its most basic meaning. It couldn't under any circumstances mean anything similar to "to cut it down and put to fire" in my opinion, and _cōnstituere_ meaning "to be" is seems only slightly more possible. This verb, with the thematic role of patient as its subject, expresses a dynamic change of state involving multiple entities, in other words consolidation, such as the body of the Magistrate making up the Judge, or two peoples one, or the Tyrolian refugees making up a body (if that's what is meant); and with the theta role of agent present, it expresses creation through will, an appointment.


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Sobakus said:


> I can't find this statement in this thread, but if you found it in the document, this interpretation would certainly be possible: the different Magistrate members legally amount to one Judge.
> 
> It's _-tūtōs_ not -_tuendōs _- that use does look strange but still falls under the "make up" meaning like all the other synonyms you gave.
> 
> _arcendō frīgorī _is "to keep away the cold", showing its most basic meaning. It couldn't under any circumstances mean "to cut it down and put to fire" in my opinion, and _cōnstituere_ meaning "to be" is seems only slightly more possible. This verb expresses a dynamic change of state involving multiple entities, in other words consolidation, such as the body of the Magistrate making up the Judge, or two peoples one, or the Tyrolian refugees making up a body (if that's what is meant).


I thought that arcendo was connected with exciderint. So I read the sentence as follows: they avoided the cold by using woods from their woods. As far as I know the excidere uses a noun in dative case. If this isn't the case, then how to explain the use of accusative in the instance of "privatas sylvulas"? 

anno autem 762 pestilentia ad loca finitima irrepente, infectas Vicinas Possessiones, Ulma et Pavliss, ne contagio ultro serperet, Corona Custodum e numero sui cinxerit, praehabitasque propria industria enutritas privatas Sylvulas, ad focum, arcendo a Custodibus frigori exstructum prorsus exciderint


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## Sobakus

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> I thought that arcendo was connected with exciderint. So I read the sentence as follows: they avoided the cold by using woods from their woods. As far as I know the excidere uses a noun in dative case. If this isn't the case, then how to explain the use of accusative in the instance of "privatas sylvulas"?


_sylvās exc*ī*derint_, nōn _alicui aliquid exc*ĭ*derit_ = aliquis aliquid oblītus sit_._

corōna custōdum _ad focum frīgorī arcendō exstrūctum_ prīvātās silvās prope exīdērunt: multās cecīdērunt arborēs, ex eāque māteriā focum exstrūxērunt quō frīgus arcērent


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> I thought that arcendo was connected with exciderint. So I read the sentence as follows: they avoided the cold by using woods from their woods. As far as I know the excidere uses a noun in dative case. If this isn't the case, then how to explain the use of accusative in the instance of "privatas sylvulas"?
> 
> anno autem 762 pestilentia ad loca finitima irrepente, infectas Vicinas Possessiones, Ulma et Pavliss, ne contagio ultro serperet, Corona Custodum e numero sui cinxerit, praehabitasque propria industria enutritas privatas Sylvulas, ad focum, arcendo a Custodibus frigori exstructum prorsus exciderint


Yes yes, I see now, thank you for the tip. I must admit that I feel very enlightened when I read your remarks. It is without any doubt that you possess a far higher knowledge of Latin.

Why do you translate prorsus (utterly) as prope (nearly, almost)? Don't these adverbs have different meanings?


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## Sobakus

Vladimir Nimčević said:


> Yes yes, I see now, thank you for the tip. I must admit that I feel very enlightened when I read your remarks. It is without any doubt that you possess a far higher knowledge of Latin.


You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words :3


Vladimir Nimčević said:


> Why do you translate prorsus (utterly) as prope (nearly, almost)? Don't these adverbs have different meanings?


I guess I thought that _prōrsus_ must have been an exaggeration and unconsciously replaced it with something less dramatic)) Actually it seems that they did mean to stress that the forests (or rather private parks) had been cut down _entirely_. Though I'm not sure about the rest: did they build a giant permanent fire out of them to stop a human disease by warming everyone up?


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## Vladimir Nimčević

Sobakus said:


> You're welcome, and thanks for the kind words :3
> 
> I guess I thought that _prōrsus_ must have been an exaggeration and unconsciously replaced it with something less dramatic)) Actually it seems that they did mean to stress that the forests (or rather private parks) had been cut down _entirely_. Though I'm not sure about the rest: did they build a giant permanent fire out of them to stop a human disease by warming everyone up?


I think that they built more than one fireplace to keep themselves warm while on guard duty.

As for this, Stojačković writes as follows: Als aber im Jahre 1762 die Pest bis in die benachbarten Ortschaften Ulma und Paulis eingedrungen war, umkreisten sie dieselben durch ihre Wächter, damit das Vebel nicht weiter um sich greiste, und schützten sich vor Kälte durch die abgehauenen Bäume ihrer selbst aufgezogenen Wäldchen, die sie zum Feuermachen bei der Kampirung gebrauchten.


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