# use of definite article in place names



## cafwin53

I want to say "go to Belfast". do city names take the definite articles? 
Also, what about countries, for example, Irlanda?
Thanks


----------



## Silvaninha

Ir para Belfast. City names do not usually take the definite articles (but I suppose it can depend?) ... for instance, you would say "Eu vou para Lisboa", not "para a Lisboa". "Em Lisboa", not "Na Lisboa", and also "Em Belfast", not "Na/No Belfast". 

Countries vary as well, as you say "Sou de Portugal", but "Sou do Brasil". You're safer just going with "de" ...


----------



## cafwin53

So I would say "é necesario que vade a Belfast, em Irlanda?"


----------



## Silvaninha

should the "a" not be an "à"? In which case it is a contraction of a + a ... meaning you have used the definite article?


----------



## cafwin53

But I thought I didnt want to use the definite article with a city name?


----------



## Silvaninha

That's what I thought as well ... so ... "vade a Belfast" ... a = para?

Edit : I'm sorry, you're right !


----------



## cafwin53

There's another issue! when to use para and when to use a! I have only been learning Portuguese for a few months! It's all so confusing! been doing Spanish for 8 years so I get muddled!


----------



## Outsider

A few aditional notes:


 When the name of a city is foreign, it usually doesn't take an article.
E.g., _Vou para Bangkok.
Vou para Dublin._


 Country names take a definite article, with a few exceptions.
E.g., _Vou para a Irlanda.
Vou para Portugal._


----------



## Silvaninha

Yay, a Portuguese!! Thank you!


----------



## Outsider

cafwin53 said:
			
		

> so i would say "é necesario que vade a belfast, em irlanda?"


Who is the subject of the sentence? Who must go to Belfast?



			
				cafwin53 said:
			
		

> theres another issue! when to use para and when to use a! i have only been learning portuguese for a few months! its all so confusing! been doing spanish for 8years so i get muddled!


The preposition _para_ indicates a permanent or prolonged displacement, as in "I'm going to (live in) the States". The preposition _a_ indicates a short, temporary displacement, as in "I'm going to the supermarket (and I'll be right back)". Some Brazilians do not make this distinction, and use _para_ in both cases.


----------



## Outsider

Silvaninha said:
			
		

> Yay, a Portuguese!! Thank you!


Glad to be of service.


----------



## cafwin53

I am writing 150 words describing to a friend how he should entertain a friend on a visit to n.Ireland. I was saying that it was necessary that they (you plural) go to Belfast.


----------



## Outsider

I would say something like:

_Têm de ir a Belfast, na Irlanda.
Não podem deixar de ir a Belfast, na Irlanda._

Both sentences mean "You must go to Belfast, in Ireland".


----------



## Vanda

Meninas, Outsider já explicou a respeito, mas vocês podem ler mais um pouco sobre o assunto aqui.


----------



## Juca

Cafwin,

I think there is a difference between _para _and _a_. If somebody says to me _"Vou para o __Rio de Janeiro" __(_informally _"Vou pro Rio de Janeiro") __, _the first thing I'll think is that he is going to live there. _"Vou ao Rio de Janeiro_" means that he will go there and come back soon.

Another exemple: suppose you are talking about Bahia and you want to ask whether a friend has already been there. Then you can ask "Você já foi à Bahia?"; I would find "Você já foi pra Bahia?" a little strange. Now, suppose you knew your friend was going to live in Bahia and he calls you over the phone; then it's understandable "Você já foi pra Bahia?" because I'm asking if he has already moved.


----------



## Silvaninha

I have learned a lot !! Mt obrigada !!


----------



## cafwin53

Yes, this has helped alot! basically it just comes down to length of stay and you need to judge which is more appropriate?
I think I will just use "a" because I just mean that they should visit Belfast-for the day perhaps.

Thanks again everyone.


----------



## FlyingFish1987

ola todos

I am very confused about when to use articles before a country in Portuguese.
I know you have to use for example for Brazil, o Brasil, but what about other countries?

obrigada


----------



## Vanda

Flying, I've merged your question to an existing discussion about articles usage.

Yes, Brasil has the article before it.
O Brasil é um país continental.


----------



## englishmania

FlyingFish1987 said:


> ola todos
> 
> I am very confused about when to use articles before a country in Portuguese.
> I know you have to use for example for Brazil, o Brasil, but what about other countries?
> 
> obrigada


Well, I think you have to memorise it as you don't have the "intuition" native speakers do...


Usually the article is necessary. It varies according to the gender of the word.

*Brasil *(masculine word, so *o*, *no*_, _*do*, *ao*) 
O Brasil é um país que...
Ele vive no Brasil.   _em+o=no
_Ela foi ao Brasil.  _a+o=ao_
É música do Brasil. _de+o=do_

*Alemanha *(feminine word, so *a*, *na*, *da*, *à*)
A Alemanha fica... 
Ele vive na Alemanha. _em+a=na_
Ela foi à Alemanha._ a+a=à_
A bandeira da Alemanha é... _de+a=da_


However, with some countries you don't use the article.*

Portugal *(masculine word, but... no article)
Portugal é um país que...
Ele vive em Portugal.
Ela foi a Portugal.
Ele gostou de Portugal.


Some countries allow both options:
*A* França é um país...
Ele vive *em* França /*na* França.
Ele veio *de* França/*da *França.


----------



## abarwick

Wikipedia has got an excellent article on it:

Differences between Spanish and Portuguese #Use of the Definite Article

The first column of this country list shows which definite article to use.


----------



## reka39

abarwick said:


> Wikipedia has got an excellent article on it:
> 
> Differences between Spanish and Portuguese #Use of the Definite Article
> 
> The first column of this country list shows which definite article to use.



Hello! It seems to me that 'a' in front of the name of the country is facultative with: Espanha, França, Itália, Inglaterra. Do you agree? Moreover, are there other countries that don't require the article? What about 'Angola'? I always heard without. Do you agree with the list quoted above? Thank you.


----------



## Ruca

reka39 said:


> Hello! It seems to me that 'a' in front of the name of the country is facultative with: Espanha, França, Itália, Inglaterra. Do you agree? Moreover, are there other countries that don't require the article? What about 'Angola'? I always heard without. Do you agree with the list quoted above? Thank you.




Hi reka39,

Yes, the use of the article for Espanha, França, Itália and Inglaterra is facultative, though in european portuguese it would sound more natural if you didn't use the article. Eu vivo em Espanha/em França/em Itália/em Inglaterra is more common in Portugal, but na Espanha, na França, na Itália, na Inglaterra would not sound weird. As for Angola, the use of the article definitely would sound weird: Eu vivo em Angola, not Eu vivo na Angola.

As for city names, I think the rule is that the preposition "em" should be used, without the article, except for situations where the name of the city is a commom noun. For instance:

Eu moro em Lisboa;
Eu moro em Viana do Castelo;
Eu moro em São Paulo;
Eu moro no (em+o) Porto (Porto is a common noun);
Eu moro na (em+a) Figueira da Foz (Figueira is a common noun);
Eu moro no Rio de Janeiro (Rio is a common noun).

However, there are a lot of exceptions, such as: 
Eu moro na Maia (I think Maia is a proper noun); 
Eu moro no Machico (I think Machico is a proper noun)
Eu moro em Vila do Conde (Vila is a common noun but yet you do not use the article).

Etc, etc.


----------



## diego-rj

No Brasil, "vivo em Espanha/Itália/Inglaterra" não é usado. Sempre "na Espanha/etc".


----------



## Prionace

About cities names don't take it to hard if you have trouble with the exceptions. To this day there are still a lot of Portuguese that get confused, and even there are some places that insist on using the wrong preposition (like in Quarteira, the correct is to say em Quarteira, but the locals say na Quarteira)


----------



## reka39

Thanks! As I’m interested in the Portuguese spoken in Portugal, I’ll follow Portugueses’ advices.
  According to that list, you should say: ‘estou em Cingapura, em Cuba, em Honduras, em Israel, em Moçambique, em Portugal’. Do you confirm? What about Guinee-Bissau, Macau and Cabo Verde? Do they require ‘Em’? Moreover, does anyone know why in Portuguese is ‘Marrocos’ not ‘Marroco’? Thank you!!


----------



## Casquilho

englishmania said:


> Some countries allow both options:
> *A* França é um país...
> Ele vive *em* França /*na* França.
> Ele veio *de* França/*da *França.



Indeed, but in those cases, as long as I know, Brazilian Portuguese always applies the article: Rei *da* França, parques* da *Inglaterra, morar *na* Holanda.


----------



## Prionace

reka39 said:


> Thanks! As I’m interested in the Portuguese spoken in Portugal, I’ll follow Portugueses’ advices.
> According to that list, you should say: ‘estou em Cingapura, em Cuba, em Honduras, em Israel, em Moçambique, em Portugal’. Do you confirm? What about Guinee-Bissau, Macau and Cabo Verde? Do they require ‘Em’? Moreover, does anyone know why in Portuguese is ‘Marrocos’ not ‘Marroco’? Thank you!!



Correct, except Honduras is "nas Honduras"

Remaining are: na Guiné-Bissau, em Macau, em Cabo Verde

Regarding Marrocos I found this: O nome latinizado "Marrocos" tem origem medieval Latim "Morroch", why it has an S doesn't really have an explanation I guess, it just evolved that way.


----------



## reka39

I forgot São Tomé e Príncipe! Em? no? nos? Thank you!


----------



## Prionace

reka39 said:


> I forgot São Tomé e Príncipe! Em? no? nos? Thank you!


 
Em São Tomé e Principe


----------



## reka39

What about Andorra and Eslovénia?


----------



## patriota

reka39, use o Google Notícias para ver se os portugueses usam ou não o artigo com cada país do mundo.


----------



## reka39

Timor?  Afeganistão, azerbaijão?


----------



## patriota

Clique no _link_ que deixei, substitua o nome do país no campo de busca e pressione a tecla _enter_ do seu teclado.


----------



## Prionace

patriota said:


> Clique no _link_ que deixei, substitua o nome do país no campo de busca e pressione a tecla _enter_ do seu teclado.


Concordo... Senão o rol de países é quase interminável...


----------



## reka39

Prionace said:


> Concordo... Senão o rol de países é quase interminável...



Hehe!


----------



## J. Bailica

Casaquistão...


----------



## Alentugano

Prionace said:


> in Quarteira, the correct is to say em Quarteira, but the locals say na Quarteira)


 Actually, it's quite the other way around... locals say _em/de Quarteira_, but the Portuguese media insist on saying _na/da Quarteira..._


----------



## reka39

Hello! Do you agree that an inhabitant of Saudi Arabia is called 'árabe'? Thank you. Moreover, how do you call sb from Andorra and Macau? (to be honest I know know how it is even in my language!)


----------



## patriota

Pessoas da Arábia Saudita podem ser chamadas de árabes, mas esse é o adjetivo usado para todas as pessoas do mundo pertencentes a esse povo. Se quiser especificar o país, use o adjetivo "saudita". Consulte esta lista para ver os gentílicos de todos os países e lugares importantes para a lusofonia (como Macau), ou simplesmente pesquise "gentílico [nome do lugar]" em sua ferramenta de busca predileta.


----------



## reka39

patriota said:


> Pessoas da Arábia Saudita podem ser chamadas de árabes, mas esse é o adjetivo usado para todas as pessoas do mundo pertencentes a esse povo. Se quiser especificar o país, use o adjetivo "saudita". Consulte esta lista para ver os gentílicos de todos os países e lugares importantes para a lusofonia (como Macau), ou simplesmente pesquise "gentílico [nome do lugar]" em sua ferramenta de busca predileta.



Thanks for the link! Unfortunately I believe it's more useful for sb that already know the adj. For example is 'andorrano', 'andorrense' or 'andorriano'? I would bet it's the 2nd.. am I right? Another 'doubt': guianense or guianês?


----------



## reka39

What about Honduras? Unfortunately newspapers don't help..
a- Curiosamente, o golo que valeu os primeiros três pontos às _Honduras_ nesta fase foi apontado por ..
b- pós a difusão de um vídeo que registra o assassinato a tirso de dois jovens em _Honduras_ e...


----------



## reka39

Moreover, always with reference to that list, I believe in PtE you say 'nicaraguense' not 'nicaragüense'..


----------



## Ruca

reka39 said:


> Moreover, always with reference to that list, I believe in PtE you say 'nicaraguense' not 'nicaragüense'..




Hello,

In PtE "ü" is not used. Anyway, the new spelling rules have done away with the use of ü in Brazil. So, under the new spelling rules, in Brazil it will be written Nicaraguense as well.


----------



## mglenadel

reka39 said:


> Moreover, always with reference to that list, I believe in PtE you say 'nicaraguense' not 'nicaragüense'..



One more about this: the umlaut used to serve to signal that the "u" was spoken, unlike in words such as "guitarra", which is spoken as "gi-tarra" (with a hard "g"--normally a "g" before "e" and "i" is soft, as in "gelo" or "girafa", so to 'harden' the "g", the "u" is added). Sometimes the "u" after the "g" is spoken, so, to signal this, the "ü" was used. The current agreement (Acordo Ortográfico) does away with the umlaut, and we have to know in which words the "u" is spoken.

All this to say Nicaraguense and Nicaragüense are spoken the same, with a hard "g" and the "u" spoken.


----------



## J. Bailica

Hondurenho (Honduras); guineense (Guiné); andorrenho (Andorra); macaense (Macau); saudita (Arábia Saudita); azeri [acho eu] (Azerbeijão); casaque (Casaquistão).

Pronto!

Mas agora vais ter de retribuir, satisfazendo uma curiosidade minha: tu dás estas matérias nas aulas, ou és apenas insaciavelmente curiosa e interessada (e ainda bem, provavelmente, desde que consigas dormir à noite )?


Já agora: penso que o Ciberdúvidas tem algumas respostas para (pelo menos) os casos mais estranhos deste tipo de questões.


----------



## reka39

J. Bailica said:


> Hondurenho (Honduras); guineense (Guiné); andorrenho (Andorra); macaense (Macau); saudita (Arábia Saudita); azeri [acho eu] (Azerbeijão); casaque (Casaquistão).
> 
> Pronto!
> 
> Mas agora vais ter de retribuir, satisfazendo uma curiosidade minha: tu dás estas matérias nas aulas, ou és apenas insaciavelmente curiosa e interessada (e ainda bem, provavelmente, desde que consigas dormir à noite )?
> 
> 
> Já agora: penso que o Ciberdúvidas tem algumas respostas para (pelo menos) os casos mais estranhos deste tipo de questões.



Infelizmente, só muito curiosa!


----------



## Alandria

Algumas para memorizarem e que poucos sabem:

No Recife
No Crato
Em Barbalha
Em treze tílias


----------

