# different types of "if"not really clear!



## stella1192

Hey again guys, so today problem is my realization that I don't think I really know the difference between the difference types of "if"'s.
For example, the sentence "if I'm am against this choice, there are also other reasons" that I translated into
この選択に反対すれば、他の理由もあります is wrong according to my teacher.
From what I remember ば form is used in normal hypothetical sentences and たら in conditional clauses with a more stronger meaning, or am I wrong? what should I use in this sentence?


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## frequency

Sorry, I'm not sure about your _if I'm am against this choice, there are also other reasons._ and _この選択に反対すれば、他の理由もあります。_
Would you explain to us a bit more?


One more, for example,
雨が降れば私は行かない。and
雨が降ったら私は行かない。 sound the same to me. These examples might not be suitable for your question. ちょっと待って・・


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## stella1192

Oh sorry. So the contest is that I'm trying to explain why the choice of being vegan is not healthy and in that sentence I want to say something like "beside this first reason (that vegan people lack some important vitamins) there are also other reasons that make me believe that this choice is not healthy, therefore I am against it"
Is that clearer?

Also in your 2 sentences there is no difference between them? can they be used in the same way?


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## frequency

Okay! Besides the first reason, you have other (more) reasons that you believe veganism isn't healthy. Therefore you're against it. But I suppose, in the Japanese text you've written, you're speaking about 'I have other reasons'.

Isn't this:
（最初の理由だけではなく、）他の理由もあるので、この選択*に反対です。
_(Not only the first reason,) I have also other reasons, so I'm against this choice_?

*Being/becoming a vegan

Am I right? I guess 'if' might not be good..

The two examples? I'd say they're roughly and practically the same. But just a moment (let me think about it)


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## frequency

思い出した。Yours is たら・れば。

Not an 'if-clause', a main clause controls the meaning.
Difference -ra form and -ba form (See my #15)

In
雨が降れば私は行かない。and 雨が降ったら私は行かない, 私は行かない is a negative statement. I don't know why, but the two are roughly the same.
If I add information, れば is 'for example', and I'd say super-hypothesis. You're away from reality.
But たら is more realistic and likely.


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## 810senior

I'm afraid I could not find any reason that if clause should be used. At least to me, it seems better to say that I am against this choice due to many other reasons.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

stella1192 said:


> For example, the sentence "if I'm am against this choice, there are also other reasons" that I translated into
> この選択に反対すれば、他の理由もあります is wrong according to my teacher.
> 
> what should I use in this sentence?



You should write,
この選択に反対*するとすれば*、ほかにもいくつかの理由を挙げることができます。
＝「この選択に反対する」とすれば、ほかにもいくつかの理由を挙げることができます。
＝「この選択に反対する」と仮定すれば、ほかにもいくつかの理由を挙げることができます。

It's very difficult to explain, but, for example,
この選択に反対すれば、私は非難を受けるだろう。is a perfect sentence.
However, in your context, the latter half is somehow weird even in English to my ears.
"If I were against this choice, I could explain several reasons." sounds much better.
This sentence indicates that the writer is basically agree with that choice, right?
The writer is using a rhetorical expression or subjunctive mood, right?
In that case, you should say differently from この選択に反対すれば.

この選択に反対すれば is a simple hypothetical clause.
If you make the sentence, assuming that it's a simple hypothesis,
"この選択に反対すれば、いくらでもその理由を説明できる。" may make sense. But it still weird.

"この選択に反対すれば、いくらでも有権者の心をつかむことができる”　is perfectly fine.

In short, your example sentence written in English is not suitable for the word choice somehow.
It depends on the content or context of the sentence.

edit) I didn't read #2,#3・・・.
In that case, I agree with other members' advice.
In your sentence, the main clause and the subordinate clause are opposite.
"As I can explain several more reasons, I'm against it."
"ほかにもいくつかの理由が挙げられるので、私は菜食主義には反対です。”


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## stella1192

Thank you Frequency, that makes things a bit clearer (although I am sure I'll be asking again about it, I'm sorry!)
Also thanks to 810Senior and SoLaTiDoberman I'm sorry about the misunderstanding, thank you for the advice anyway!
On the same topic, if I want to say "in other words there is many reasons that make me think that veganism is not healthy"
I can't say:
つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えられば、色々な理由があります
right? I should rather say:
つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます
or am I wrong again?


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## karlalou

If you want to use 'If' for your sentence, how about 'If this is not enough to persuade you, then I have more reasons for this', in Japanese (もし、)これだけでは説得力が足りないようなら、ほかにも理由はあります.

In my opinion, in this case without 'if' would be milder. 



stella1192 said:


> if I want to say "in other words there is many reasons that make me think that veganism is not healthy"


That would be つまり、私がビーガンダイエットは不健康だと思う理由はたくさんあるのです.


> I can't say:
> つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと*考え**ら**れば*、色々な理由があります
> right? I should rather say:
> つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます
> or am I wrong again?


I like the second one. I think without つまり would be even better. ah...  would be better から instead of あるので: いろいろな理由から不健康だと考えます


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## SoLaTiDoberman

１．つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えられば、色々な理由があります
２．つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えるに足る十二分な理由があります。
３．つまり、私がビーガンダイエットは不健康だと思う理由はたくさんあるのです。

４．つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます。
５．つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由により不健康だと考えられます。

1,2,3 and 4, 5 have the different word order.
1 is wrong, but 2 and 3 is correct, although 2 and 3 need very complex syntax in order to make sense.
I think 4 and 5 are easier to construct the sentence.
If you feel confused with this post, please feel free to ignore this.


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## stella1192

karlalou said:


> If you want to use 'If' for your sentence, how about 'If this is not enough to persuade you, then I have more reasons for this', in Japanese (もし、)これだけでは説得力が足りないようなら、ほかにも理由はあります.
> 
> In my opinion, in this case without 'if' would be milder.


that's a very good idea very persuasive, thank you!


SoLaTiDoberman said:


> １．つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えられば、色々な理由があります
> ２．つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えるに足る十二分な理由があります。
> ３．つまり、私がビーガンダイエットは不健康だと思う理由はたくさんあるのです。
> 
> ４．つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます。
> ５．つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由により不健康だと考えられます。
> 
> 1,2,3 and 4, 5 have the different word order.
> 1 is wrong, but 2 and 3 is correct, although 2 and 3 need very complex syntax in order to make sense.
> I think 4 and 5 are easier to construct the sentence.
> If you feel confused with this post, please feel free to ignore this.



Yes I kind of get the general feeling I opted for n.4, thank you so much!


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## frequency

stella1192 said:


> I can't say:
> つまりビーガンダイエットは不健康だと考えられば、色々な理由があります?


In the first clause you're saying _つまり if/when vegan diet is considered unhealthy, ~~..._



stella1192 said:


> つまりビーガンダイエットは色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます。


Good! Not bad. But..

You're listing bad reasons before that:
~~, ~~, ~~. つまりビーガンダイエット_に_は色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます。
This is good.

If it's kind of standalone, and that alternatively could be
つまりビーガンダイエット_に_は色々な_良くない_理由があるので不健康だと考えます。 You say it's unhealthy, so it must have bad reasons.
I bet you'll get it


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## stella1192

frequency said:


> In the first clause you're saying _つまり if/when vegan diet is considered unhealthy, ~~..._
> 
> 
> Good! Not bad. But..
> 
> You're listing bad reasons before that:
> ~~, ~~, ~~. つまりビーガンダイエット_に_は色々な理由があるので不健康だと考えます。
> This is good.
> 
> If it's kind of standalone, and that alternatively could be
> つまりビーガンダイエット_に_は色々な_良くない_理由があるので不健康だと考えます。 You say it's unhealty, so it must have bad reasons.
> I bet you'll get it


It's more of a conclusive statement but yeah I think that adding that _良くない makes it sound better... Thank you _


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