# to control (check)



## ThomasK

I'd like to know how you translate 'control' or 'check', as a verb with either direct object or indirect clause, as in :_ I have checked the oil (level), I wanted to see whether she needed anything_.

This is not meant to be a double of my other thread, which focused on the extra meaning of controlling, i.e., keeping under control, even reducing.


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## ThomasK

In Dutch, we can say controleren, but also: 
- *nakijken, nagaan: *after-watch, after-go... 
- *checken
*
I collected some elements from the former thread: 

- In Hungarian the verb is *ellenőriz*. It is made up of the prefix *ellen-* and the verb *őriz*. Ellen- means "contra", the verb őriz means to guard. 
ADDITION: *átvizsgál *means check, too.  át- means through and vizsgál means examine
- in ancient Greek with the verb «ἐλέγχω» (e'leŋxō) one described->controlling, verifying, putting someone to shame, cross-examining, correcting (and a few more).

I hope to receive some more now. Thanks.


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## Outsider

In Portuguese there are several translations, not fully synoymous but with considerable overlap between them:

- *controlar*, historically borrowed from French _contrôler_ (or the noun _contrôle_) sometime in the first half of the 20th century, though with obvious later reinforcement from English *to control*;
- *checar*, borrowed from English *to check*, a more recent coinage mostly used in Brazil;
- *verificar*, a cognate of *to verify*;
- *confirmar*, a cognate of *to confirm*;
- *conferir*, which in this sense is a cognate but a false friend of English *to confer*.


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## Perseas

ThomasK said:


> - in ancient Greek with the verb «ἐλέγχω» (e'leŋxō) one described->controlling, verifying, putting someone to shame, cross-examining, correcting (and a few more).


We use *ελέγxω* also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, *τσεκάρω* /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and *κοντρολάρω* /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.


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## ThomasK

So these verbs allow for both direct object and subclause, don't they? I do wonder whether _confirmar _and _controlar _are really the same: don't say '_confirmar _that', but 'controlar whether'? And how do you use _conferir _then? 

 I'd be interested to read something about the root of teh Greek 'tsekaro' as well. (Thanks !)


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## Perseas

ThomasK said:


> I'd be interested to read something about the root of teh Greek 'tsekaro' as well. (Thanks !)


It's just a transfer of the English "check".


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## mataripis

In Tagalog, to check is "Tignan"/ "Suriin"/ . 1.) Check the files= Tignan ang nakapatas.    2.) Check if there are errors.= Suriin kung may pagkakamali.


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## ThomasK

Is there any difference between all those? Is 'ang' an article? Is 'kung may' 'if there are'? How come you use two different verbs ?


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## mataripis

Exactly. Ang is the article (the) and Kung is "If" , there is/are  =  May .  the first verb is not too strict , tignan = look/check   while the second verb " Suriin" =  search/ double check. Suriin is related to "Uri" (quality) so when using this word it means "Quality check".or Inspection.


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## ThomasK

That is an interesting addition. Are there any other words related with those two ?


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## mataripis

yes. there are other words but this time i only remember "Kilatisin" (check / analyze/ inspect).  1.) Check/inspect/analyze  which is appropriate for our standard/s.= Kilatisin ang nararapat sa ating pamantayan.


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> So these verbs allow for both direct object and subclause, don't they? I do wonder whether _confirmar _and _controlar _are really the same: don't say '_confirmar _that', but 'controlar whether'? And how do you use _conferir _then?


I guess _controlar_ is mostly used transitively — to control something or someone, including the sense of "to watch/check out/surveil/spy" —, although when I think about it _controlar se_ (to control whether), while less common, might not raise too many eyebrows.* 

_Confirmar_ and _conferir_ have pretty much the same syntax and similar meanings. They can be used intransitively — check [it], I'll check [it], [it] checks —, or transitively — to check something, or to check whether some condition is met. These two may have more affirmative conotations, such as "to double check", and _confirmar_ may additionally mean "to confirm/establish/prove". In other words, _conferir_ usually has a tentative sense, while _confirmar_ may be tentative as well, or more assertive.** 

_Verificar_ is similar in meaning to _conferir_, but it's not used intransitively.

The verb _ver_ (to see) can also mean "to check".

_*Controlar_ is the only one of these verbs which can also mean "to command/regulate".
*_*Conferir_ (but not _confirmar_) can also mean "to bestow", like "to confer" in English.


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## ThomasK

Interesting notes ! Now, as for controlar se: that would not be the normal verb with us either, rather something like _nakijken (after-look), nagaan (after-go).

_Could you comment on ' [it] checks'? 

I wonder about confirmar/ conferir. Can you use it with _se_? We could use _zien _(see) se, but not _bevestigen _(confirmar) se. However, the languages may be quite different, for sure...


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## Outsider

ThomasK said:


> I wonder about confirmar/ conferir. Can you use it with _se_? We could use _zien _(see) se, but not _bevestigen _(confirmar) se.


Absolutely:

Por favor *confira/confirme/veja* se a encomenda chegou ao destino em condições. "Please *check/confirm/see* if the package arrived at its destination in good condition."



ThomasK said:


> Could you comment on ' [it]  checks'?


Certainly. I may not have used the word  "intransitive" correctly above. What I meant was that Portuguese is a null-subject language and  sometimes the object can be left out as well, so the following exchanges  would be perfectly normal:

— A encomenda está em boas condições? "Is the package in good condition?"
  — Eu *confiro/confirmo/verifico/vejo*. _literally:_ I (will) check/see [it].

— A encomenda está em boas condições? "Is the package in good condition?"
— *Confere.* "Check." _literally:_ [it] checks (out)


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## ThomasK

I see now. The latter use is typically Portuguese, I suppose, thanks. As for _confira_: is there an etymological equivalent in French (or English) of that ? I can't see one (not that there needs to be one ;-)).


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## Outsider

_Conferir_ is a cognate of English "confer", but while the latter only means "to grant", the former can also mean "to check". I'm not sure about other Romance languages.


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## ThomasK

Of course, you're right. I missed the link due to the difference in meaning!


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## francisgranada

ThomasK said:


> ...
> In Hungarian the verb is *ellenőriz*. It is made up of the prefix *ellen-* and the verb *őriz*. Ellen- means "contra", the verb őriz means to guard. ADDITION: *átvizsgál *means check, too.  át- means through and vizsgál means examine ...


Exactly. 

For _confirmar _and _verificar_, there are other verbs:
*megerősít *- confirm (erős = _strong, firm_; meg-_perfective prefix_)
*igazol -* verify (igaz = true)


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## apmoy70

Perseas said:


> We use *ελέγxω* also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, *τσεκάρω* /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and *κοντρολάρω* /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.


Just wanted to add to Perseas' erudite post, that both «κοντρολάρω» /kondro'laro/ (from _control_) and «τσεκάρω» /t͡se'karo/ (from _check_), are considered colloquialisms and cannot be employed in formal speech or formal writing.
As for _confirm/verification_, we usually translate them as:
A) «Επιβεβαιώνω» /epiveve'ono/ from the Classical verb «ἐπιβεβαιόω/ἐπιβεβαιῶ» ĕpĭbĕbæ'ŏō [uncontracted]/ĕpĭbĕbǣ'ō [contracted]; compound formed with the joining of the prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» (ĕ'pi)-->_upon, at, close upon (in space or time), on the occasion of, in addition_ + verb bĕbæ'ŏō [uncontracted]/bĕbǣ'ō [contracted]-->_to establish, valid, determine, make good_ (modern Greek «βεβαιώνω» /veve'ono/ with same meanings). Etymologically it derives from the Classical verb «βαίνω» ('bǣnō, /'veno/ in modern pronunciation)--> _to step_, from PIE base *gʷā-, _to go_. Initially «ἐπιβεβαιόω/ἐπιβεβαιῶ» meant _to step with certainty_, later, _to add proof, ratify_.
B) «Επαληθεύω» /epali'θevo/ from the Classical verb «ἐπαληθεύω» ĕpălē'tʰeuō--> _to prove true, substantiate, verify_; compound formed with the joining of the prefix and preposition «ἐπὶ» (ĕ'pi)--> _upon, at, close upon (in space or time), on the occasion of, in addition_ + feminine noun «ἀλήθεια» ă'lētʰeiă (/a'liθia/ or /a'liθça/ in modern pronunciation)--> _truth, realization_ (from privative prefix «α-» + fem. noun «λήθη» 'lētʰē, /'liθi/ in modern pronunciation--> _forgetfulness_, PIE base *leh₂-, _to hide_, cf. Latin latēre, _to hide, lurk_; therefore «αλήθεια» is the state of not being hidden; the state of being evident, i.e. _factual_).


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## mataripis

Perseas said:


> We use *ελέγxω* also in modern Greek with same meanings. Also, *τσεκάρω* /tse'karo/ meaning "to check, to verify" and *κοντρολάρω* /kondro'laro/ meaning "to maintain the control", with their origins being obvious.


The Greek" Eleg Hoh"  means "To control" .Is it possible for that verb to have the meaning "Take care of" ? In Tagalog there is a word "Alaga" (pet or adopted or someone under one's supervision) and it's verb form is "Alagaan" = To take care.  1.) Take care of him/her.=  alagaan mo siya.


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## arielipi

In hebrew you have many words for that(one of the few, funny cases where hebrew has more than english), depends on what you want to check:
validity - levade'/le'amet(this one is actually to valid 100%)/letakef(rare)
look/see - lir'ot/lehistakel
check/investigate/research - livdok
control(as a 'boss') - lefake'akh
control(in power) - lishlot


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## ThomasK

That might be interesting: do you feel they have a common meaning ('check')? Do you consider them near-synonyms?


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## arielipi

Theyre all in the right context(some of them are also used for other meanings) a variant of check, but each is individual.
also 
control(in force[=army,police,etc]) - (in hebrew also shares command) lefaked, letzavot
guide(in direction,lead) - lekaven, to misguide - leholich(also shares the commanding variant)


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## ThomasK

So there are two different meanings, I understand, quite interesting. I am wondering whether I could imagine the same variation in Dutch.


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## e2-e4 X

In Russian, checking is assosciated with truth. The verbs in use are:
- 'проверить' ('to fortrue', that is, 'to verify a truth'). Some of its paronyms: 'верный' (adj, 'correct', also 'faithful', it. "_fedele_"), 'вера' (belief, either truly religious or religious in spirit), 'верить' ('to believe in something', 'to trust to somebody', 'to take some system of statements to be true');
- 'убедиться' (lit. 'to convince oneself', that is, 'to make sure', 'to verify');
- 'проследить' (lit. ~ 'to have a watch');
- others (depends on the context).


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## arielipi

Im not sure of what two meanings you mean.


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## ThomasK

Well guiding and keeping under control. No ?

As for e-2, could you give me the roots and the pronunciation as well? Do I see a root like 'spect' and 'delit' respectively ?


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## e2-e4 X

ThomasK said:


> As for e-2, could you give me the roots and the pronunciation as well? Do I see a root like 'spect' and 'delit' respectively ?


"про*вер*ить": the root is "вер", and it sounds as "ver" (must be a cognate to the English 'very' and Italian 'verità'). The prefix sounds as 'pro', and its meaning is very close to the meaning of the corresponding  international (that is, Latin) prefix. "ить" (it') is a common verbal suffix.
"у*бед*иться": the root is "бед" (the transliteration is "bed"), and there are so many words that have the same root, including such ones, as "*бед*а" ('trouble', usually severe trouble) and "по*бед*а" (victory). I fail to see how the sense of the word developed; however, according to Max Vasmer, the original word was "беда" (trouble), and the word "убедить" (to convince) came from Church Slavonic. The prefix 'у' ('u') means 'at', 'about', and "ся" is a reciprocal suffix, seemingly related to the Italian "si", Spanish "se" etc, and pronounced in a similar way.
"про*след*ить": this is one of the perfective forms of the verb "*след*ить", formed with the help of the prefix "про" (see above; here its meaning is closer to 'along the way [towards]'). The verb "следить" means 'to watch', fr. 'garder'; its root is "след" ("sled"), the word "*след*" means a trace, a track, a footprint.

Sorry, I am not sure what you meant by your request for pronunciation. I can give a letter-by-letter transliteration (as I did in this post), if you think it's useful for you, but the transliteration doesn't give a precise pronunciation anyway, so I believe it's useless. We can't describe human speech in a few lines.


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## ThomasK

No, no, this is perfect !!! Thanks !


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## francisgranada

To be a bit more precise (perhaps it may help you):  
*
ellenőriz* (ellen-against, őriz-guard - to check/control,  i.e. (at least in thery ...) not only to see if it's "ok", but also to compare (that's why _ellen_) with existing orders/rules/prescriptions ... etc. 
*átvizsgál *(át-through, vizsgál-examine) - to check/control/examine ... more "general" and maybe also "subjective", though not superficial ...  
*átnéz *(át-through, néz-watch, look) - to check/revise, look through, look over ..., more "general" and also "subjective", even superficial ...  
*megerősít *(erős-strong) - to confirm (i.e. what has already been said/stated/supposed/proposed ...)
*igazol *(igaz-true)* -* to verify, declare true ... (eventually, also presenting documents/proofs ...)
*felügyel (*fel-up, ügy-"thing", issue, matter, cause ...) - to control, to oversee, to supervise ... (rather "online", not afterwards)

None of the mentioned verbs has the meaning of "to have control on/to govern/to guide ...."


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## arielipi

guding and keeping under control are different things. which control of the three you mean?


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## ThomasK

Well, my starting point was that ‘to control’ in English has also come to mean ‘to keep under control’, whereas the first meaning was to verify. In Hebrew there seem quite some verbs to describe the act of controlling, and some for keeping under control, so it seems (_lefake'akh, lishlot_). I am not quite sure that the latter is quite correct.  But could you give me the underlying root.

As for Hungarian and Russian: very interesting to hear about the word structure and the roots – and to see there is no link with keeping under control.

Yes, as I pointed out at the start, I believe: there is a plausible transition from one to the other. Every control is or requires some form of power, and/ or causes/ results in some form of power. Or so I think.


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## arielipi

Every control does, but theres no relation between that and master.
by saying underlying root what do you mean?(sorry, im not familiar with those requests -do you mean the structre of the word?)


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## ThomasK

Mind you, those are not the technical words: the 'root word' is the central root word in a derivation (or compound?). Look at e-2's examples. The structure of some words in Dutch is often: prefix - noun/verb - suffix.


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## arielipi

you want the explanation of how it is formed?


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## ThomasK

Yes, but in the meantime I found that for example lishlot is a root in itself, something like dominating.

Yes, but in the meantime I found out that for example _lishlot _is a root in itself, something like dominating. I suppose the others will be root words too.


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## arielipi

Every one of them is a root.

(Almost) Every word in hebrew is formed from roots,the li+word is the name of action a person does, much like "to X" (to divide) in english. 
The roots list for these is long as this one is long. Du have any more questions? feel free to ask.


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## Gavril

ThomasK said:


> Well, my starting point was that ‘to control’ in English has also come to mean ‘to keep under control’, whereas the first meaning was to verify.



I think it's worth pointing out that in modern English, the word _*control*_ generally doesn't mean "check, monitor", although that was indeed its original meaning.

For example, I just looked at the entry for _control_ in a dictionary of US English, and "check, monitor" was not listed as even a secondary/tertiary/etc. meaning of the word, except in the technically-specific sense that is used in scientific experimentation. (E.g., a _control sample_ is a sample used to "check" that an experiment is working as planned.)

However, the "check" meaning seems to be very prominent in most, if not all, of the continental European cognates of _control_ (Spanish _controlar_, German _kontrollieren_, Finnish _kontrolloida_, Polish _kontrolować_, etc. etc.), which can lead to translation errors of various kinds. Once, one of my relatives was crossing the border between two European countries (I don't remember exactly where), and a border guard came up to his car and said, in English, "Excuse me, we want to control you".


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## ThomasK

Interesting information, thanks! In Dutch too we use '"checken" as you suggest, but we do know "onder controle houden...


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