# واضربوهن



## Beate

Hello,

there is a big discussion in Germany at the moment about the verse saying that the husband has the right to hit his wife.

There are people who say that in verse 4, 34 the imperative
واضربوهن could be read as "travel" (daraba fi-l-ard) or as explain (daraba mathalan).

I however think that you must read "hit". Who is right?

Thank you


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## J.F. de TROYES

This word واضربوهن  is also translated "Hit them" in the qur'an translated into French by D. Masson ("Frappez-les")
in " Bibliothèque de la Pleiade-NRF", which is considered a standard reference book.


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## sadben2008

The most common translation is with 'hit' or "smack"

and the translation of the whole verse is :

"[4.34] Men are the maintainers of
women for that Allah has preferred
in bounty one of them over another,
and for that they have spent of their
wealth. Righteous women are
obedient, guarding in secret that
which Allah has guarded. Those from
whom you fear rebelliousness,
admonish them then desert them in
the bed and then smack them (without
harshness). Then, if they obey you,
do not look for any way against
them. Allah is High, Great.
[4.35] If you fear a breach between
them send for an arbiter from his
people and an arbiter from her
people. If both wish reconciliation,
Allah will bring success between
them. Allah is the Knower, the
Aware."


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## cherine

I think smack is a bit too much.

Yes, the verb واضربوهن means to hit, and can't mean to travel because we don't have the preposition fi (as Darab fi'l-arD), nor would it have any meaning in this context.

I searched in like 5 tafsir (interpretation/explanation) books of the Qur'an, they all say that hitting is not meant to be beating, smacking or any violent "hitting", but rather as you would hit a child who did a big error, you know, gently.


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## Beate

Thank you very much.

I wondered too when even muslim experts said that in this verse "wadribuhunna" means "go away from them" because from a mere linguistic point of view this would be wrong.

bye Beate


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## Abu Rashid

> I wondered too when even muslim experts


  There's a lot of people around today claiming to be "muslim experts", most know nothing about Islam (or Arabic) but are merely used as tools of the media who put them there.


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## kifaru

cherine said:


> I searched in like 5 tafsir (interpretation/explanation) books of the Qur'an, they all say that hitting is not meant to be beating, smacking or any violent "hitting", but rather as you would hit a child who did a big error, you know, gently.


I'll submit then that "hit" is not the right translation. Maybe "tap" is better or "nudge" because "beat", "smack", "spank", "slap" and "punch" are all ways to "hit" and they all hurt so they are all not gentle. This is a tough one to reconcile for us Muslims that wouldn't dream of hitting our wives but it should not be linguistically finessed to appeal to non-Muslims.


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## Anatoli

I saw a video recorded on Yemeni (?) TV with instructions how to hit disobedient women lightly (without causing injuries, with kids not present, etc.). Sorry for butting in into a linguistic discussion but I find this disturbing. In Australia, it is an offence to hit anyone (even lightly), no matter what your cultural or religious background is. Feel free to delete my post, of course but I thought I will express my point of view. I respect all religions but this is a bad tradition, which was present in most cultures, and has been abandoned by most civilised people. In Russia, we also have sayings like "Wife fear your man", etc but I don't think anyone shoold follow this any more.


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## Beate

Hello Anatoli,

I think 99,9% of the muslims agree with you in the sense that beating his wife is abominable and doesn't resolve problems but rather causes another problem.
But this ist part of the Qur'an exegese.
First of all one must accept that there is this verse in the Qur'an. But then you have to explain this verse and seek for its meaning. 

I am interested in the mere linguistic analysis of the verse.
The discussion in Germany about this verse was caused by an action of a female judge who did refuse to shorten the waiting period for a divorce (which is 1 year in Germany) which is normally done in cases of domestic violence.
In this case there was a lady with moroccon background who wanted to be divorced immediately because her husband is beating her and the judge argued that she has to fulfill the waiting period of one year because the Qur'an explicitely allows wife beating. So wife beating is no reason for muslims to shorten the waiting period.
Then muslims all over Germany tried to explain that this was not meant by the verse 4,34. They said that the expression "wadribuhunna" means rather "go away from them" or "explain to them" (daraba mathalan). 
I personally was just interested in the linguistic aspect of this verse. 
The muslims I know find it abominable to beat his wife. So I don't think that this verse pushes men to beat their wives.

bye Beate


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## Anatoli

Danke, Beate.



> ...the judge argued that she has to fulfill the waiting period of one year because the Qur'an explicitely allows wife beating. So wife beating is no reason for muslims to shorten the waiting period.


You yourself mentioned that it depends on who reads it and how they interpret it, so that judge was probably using the 
verse in his interests. Domestic violence is present in any culture but there shouldn't be any moral justification for it. The Moroccan woman should be allowed to divorce earlier, IMHO.


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## CarlosPerezMartinez

Let's forget for one moment the qur'anic verse and try to see the meaning of the verb ضرب . According to any dictionary the meaning is "to strike, beat, etc.".  Of course there are other meanings but this one is included.

And the problem with that verse is that bad people could justify beating their wives because of the meaning of the verb! I  know that  islamic experts will give  different interpretations but this verse opens the door for others to actually beat their wives. 

And so on. The Holy Qur'an if you take it literally (like other Holy Books) can provide a good justification for really bad people (bad muslims I would say).


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## cherine

I hope we can stick to the linguistic aspect of the verse as much as possible, even though I understand it's hard.

So, here's the sum of what I gathered from the tafseer books: all books use the adjective ضربا *غير مبرح *which means non-violent and doesn't cause injuries.

- And from Abdullah Yusuf Ali's translation of the Qur'an, here's a note about the verse :


> * In case of family jars four steps are mentioned, to be taken in that order: (1) perhaps verbal advice or admonition may be sufficient; (2) if not, sex relations may be suspended; (3) if this is not sufficient, some slight physical correction may be administered: but Imam Shafii considers this inadvisable, though permissible, and all authorities are unanimous in deprecating any sort of cruelty, even of the nagging kind, as mentioned in the next clause; (4) if all this fails, a family council is recommended in iv. 35 below.


Source.

Of course some many jump to number (3), interpreting the text as they wish so.
But here I am deviating off the linguistic topic myself


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## CarlosPerezMartinez

Ok, Cherine, but that is tafseer and I do not doubt that the correct interpretaion is what you say, but what about all those bad guys who use a literal interpretation of the Holy Qur'an in order to justify their behaviour? Not being a muslim myself I can't go deeper but from a linguistic point of view the meaning of the verb (among others) is to beat, isn't it?


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## cherine

Of course the meaning is to beat, I can't change that.
Why God permitted it, I can't tell, nor can I ever know. But that's what's said in His book.

As I said, beating is mentioned as "last resort". The fact that some people choose it as the "first" solution for the domestic problems is those bad guy's problem, not the Quran's. Like so many other bad interpretation.

It's unfortunately something that no one can control


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## Beate

well, there are also cases of domestic violence in christian societies although Jesus said :"If someone hits you on the left side, expose to him your right side, too".

I think there are men who don't hit their wives despite this verse and other men who would hit their wives even if the Qur'an would declare it a big sin.

bye Beate


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## Abu Rashid

I think linguistically it's quite clear what the meaning is. However, we must recognise that different words can convey a different message in different cultural circumstances.

In Islam, physical reprimanding is not the equivalent of the drunken bashings many men in other societies dish out to their spouses. As has been mentioned, it is not allowed to be violent and cause physical markings, it is the equivalent of a slap on the wrist for a child.

This court in Germany has misused the verse for their own purposes, and it has nothing to do with the Islamic meaning.


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## Anatoli

Thank you, guys. I should probably stay away from sensitive topics, don't want to be misunderstood or hurt someone's feelings


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## Ander

I had some long discussions with Muslims about that waDribuuhunna in Quran 4-34.

Apart from the few that do not admit that such a saying is in the Quran, most do not accept that the word just means "beat them" and that saying "beat them lightly" is an interpretation added to a translation.

My point in those discussions was not to criticize any kind of interpretation, but to ask why God (as the author of the Quran) did not write "beat them lightly" instead of "beat them".


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## suma

Ander said:


> ....
> My point in those discussions was not to criticize any kind of interpretation, but to ask why God (as the author of the Quran) did not write "beat them lightly" instead of "beat them".


 
It's not at all unusual that the more precise and comprehensive understanding of a particular verse is supplied by way of interpretation. In fact the vast majority of scripture is expounded upon via interretation. the unique properties of revealed speech often necessitates conciseness and eloquence that leave many aspects of understanding to interpretation.

And as many have said here in this post, there is not a culture or religion on the face of this earth that doesnot have some unpleasant statement or practices within it. By "unpleasant" I mean here difficult to reconcile not only within today's modern world, but also difficult to reconcile with the teachings of Muhammad that speak of honoring the wife and good treatment of her as "ticket" to heaven.

But this thread has strayed far way from any linguistic discussion which is the intent of this forum. Moderators do your duty.


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## Tajabone

Greetings,

I just add some additional info and a remark.

There are 58 words related to the root *ضرب* in the Quran. Most of them are used within the expression *ضرب مثلا* which is translated as "to set forth a parable".

As we can see, most of the uses of the root concern a non-violent context.

In the same chapter (suratu e-nissa', Nb 4), we come across two occurrences which do mean "to journey" or expressing the idea of going forth in the way of God. 

The verses are 4:94 and 4: 101. Both of them use the particle "fi" so that the meaning would differ from "to hit". 

In French, there are also expression using "battre" (to hit) but in a fixed way, to express the idea of going away, wandering, etc. like "battre les routes", "battre la campagne" and so on. No one would translate such expressions as " to hit the countryside" ...

At this point, we can conclude that Laleh Bakhtiar's translation/exegesis is generous but erroneous.

Note that Jacques Berques' translation also used some "euphemisms" for 4:34.


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## Qamar Xaman

There are many references that detail possible emanings of Daraba.  However, take a look at this detailed study... it may help someone.

I am not allowed to post a link, so goto the following .com site navigate to the page.  It is an excellent detailed study...
quran434 
wife-beating-islam.html


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## إسكندراني

This seems to be a very old thread. I want to point out that the intepretation 'leave them' (i.e. اضرب here means اهجر) is not 'marginal' by 'some guy claiming to be a scholar'. It is the interpretation I have usually heard for this verse, justified by the life of Muhammad PBUH. Is it linguistically 'unusual' to use ضرب standalone to mean this?


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## muhammad2012

قال الأستاذ الإمام (محمد عبده ) : إن مشروعية ضرب النساء ليست بالأمر المستنكر في العقل أو الفطرة، فيحتاج إلى التأويل، فهو أمر يحتاج إليه في حال فساد البيئة وغلبة الأخلاق الفاسدة، وإنما يباح إذا رأى الرجل أن رجوع المرأة عن نشوزها يتوقف عليه، وإذا صلحت البيئة، وصار النساء يعقلن النصيحة، ويستجبن للوعظ، أو يزدجرن بالهجر، فيجب الاستغناء عن الضرب، فلكل حال حكم يناسبها في الشرع، ونحن مأمورون على كل حال بالرفق بالنساء، واجتناب ظلمهن، وإمساكهن بالمعروف، أو تسريحهن بإحسان، والأحاديث في الوصية بالنساء كثيرة جدا. أقول: ومن هذه الأحاديث ما هو في تقبيح الضرب والتنفير عنه، ومنها حديث عبد الله بن زمعة في الصحيحين، قال: قال رسول الله ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ: أيضرب أحدكم امرأته كما يضرب العبد، ثم يجامعها في آخر اليوم؟ وفي رواية عن عائشة عند عبد الرزاق: أما يستحي أحدكم أن يضرب امرأته كما يضرب العبد يضربها أول النهار، ثم يجامعها آخره؟ يذكر الرجل بأنه إذا كان يعلم من نفسه أنه لا بد له من ذلك الاجتماع والاتصال الخاص بامرأته، وهو أقوى وأحكم اجتماع يكون بين اثنين من البشر يتحد أحدهما بالآخر اتحادا تاما، فيشعر كل منهما بأن صلته بالآخر أقوى من صلة بعض أعضائه ببعض ـ إذا كان لا بد له من هذه الصلة والوحدة التي تقتضيها الفطرة، فكيف يليق به أن يجعل امرأته وهي كنفسه، مهينة كمهانة عبده، بحيث يضربها بسوطه أو يده؟ حقا إن الرجل الحيي الكريم ليتجافى طبعه عن مثل هذا الجفاء، ويأبى عليه أن يطلب منتهى الاتحاد بمن أنزلها منزلة الإماء، فالحديث أبلغ ما يمكن أن يقال في تشنيع ضرب النساء، وأذكر أنني هديت إلى معناه العالي قبل أن أطلع على لفظه الشريف، فكنت كلما سمعت أن رجلا ضرب امرأته أقول: يا لله العجب كيف يستطيع الإنسان أن يعيش عيشة الأزواج مع امرأة تضرب، تارة يسطو عليها بالضرب، فتكون منه كالشاة من الذئب، وتارة يذل لها كالعبد طالبا منها منتهى القرب؟ ولكن لا ننكر أن الناس متفاوتون؛ فمنهم من لا تطيب له هذه الحياة، فإذا لم تقدر امرأته بسوء تربيتها تكريمه إياها حق قدره، ولم ترجع عن نشوزها بالوعظ والهجران، فارقها بمعروف وسرحها بإحسان إلا أن يرجو صلاحها بالتحكيم الذي أرشدت إليه الآية، ولا يضرب؛ فإن الأخيار لا يضربون النساء، وإن أبيح لهم ذلك للضرورة، فقد روى البيهقي من حديث أم كلثوم بنت الصديق رضي الله عنهما قالت: كان الرجال نهوا عن ضرب النساء، ثم شكوهن إلى رسول الله ـ صلى الله عليه وسلم ـ فخلى بينهم وبين ضربهن، ثم قال: ولن يضرب خياركم فما أشبه هذه الرخصة بالحظر، وجملة القول أن الضرب علاج مر، قد يستغني عنه الخير الحر، ولكنه لا يزول من البيوت بكل حال، أو يعم التهذيب النساء والرجال.  تفسير المنار


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