# Definite article numbers



## Gwunderi

Schalom!

I have two questions:

Do numbers also take the definite article? (Don't think so, but to be sure). Strange enough I can't find examples searching online.

"I send you the three chairs."
אני שולח לך את שלושה הכיסות.

and not:
אני שולח לך את השלושה הכיסות.

How do you say "I send them *by post*":
אני שולח אותם בדואר?
If yes, I think you say "*be*doar" and not "*ba*doar"?

Thanks a lot - תודה רבה
Gwunderi


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## anipo

Gwunderi said:


> Schalom!
> 
> I have two questions:
> 
> Do numbers also take the definite article? (Don't think so, but to be sure). Strange enough I can't find examples searching online.
> 
> "I send you the three chairs."
> אני שולח לך את שלושה הכיסות.
> אני שולח לך את שלושת הכיסאות
> and not:
> אני שולח לך את השלושה הכיסות.
> 
> How do you say "I send them *by post*":
> אני שולח אותם בדואר?
> If yes, I think you say "*be*doar" and not "*ba*doar"?
> No, you would say badoar, but bedoar rashum
> Thanks a lot - תודה רבה
> Gwunderi



All the best.


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## Gwunderi

Hello Anipo,

So it's because I don't yet know this form:
שלושת הכיסאות

I thougt the numbers were always just shalosh or shlosha. Is it the same "construction" as when you say:
?ארוחת בוקר

Toda raba!
Gwunderi

P.S. Now searching "...שלושת ה" I get thousands of results!


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## hadronic

Funny that you brought up this topic, I just read "חלק מהעשרים ילדים" and "השלוש חתולים האלה" instead of the normative חלק מעשרים הילדים and שלושת החתולים האלה (the latter having two "errors" : gender and place of definite article).
Are those two phrases with attachment of the definite article to the number instead of the noun, acceptable in colloquial speech ?


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## amikama

hadronic said:


> "חלק מהעשרים ילדים" and "השלוש חתולים האלה"


Quite sloppy Hebrew, but not uncommon in colloquial Hebrew.


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## Gwunderi

@hadronic
Good that you cited these examples, otherwise I'd be completely confused now if I read such "sloppy Hebrew" somewhere : )

BTW I see only now that I had a mistake in my first sentences: it's כיסאות and not כיסות of course, as anipo corrected me.


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## Gwunderi

שלום

I still have questions about this topic. I searched several times online how to write other numbers in the accusative, but didn't find any systematic explanation or some rule (and it's also extremely difficult to find examples).

It's now clear that you say:
שלחתי לך את שלושת הספרים.

ספר is masculine, so the nominative is שלושה ספרים

Is it only because of the ה at the end that in the accusative it becomes שלושת הספרים?

So I suppose you say also:
שלחתי לך את ארבעת הספרים.
שלחתי לך את חמישת הספרים.
...
שלחתי לך את עשרת הספרים.

And do feminine numbers not change in the accusative?
שלחתי לך את שלוש המחברות.
שלחתי לך את ארבע המחברות.

The only number which ends with ה in the fiminine form is שמונה.
So what is correct?
שלחתי לך את שמונה המחברות.
שלחתי לך את שמונת המחברות.

I sent you the 15 books / the 15 notebooks:
שלחתי לך את חמישה עשר הספרים.
שלחתי לך את חמש עשרת המחברות.

I think it's simply:
שלחתי לך את חמישים הספרים / את חמישים המחברות.

For hundred:
שלחתי לך את מאת הספרים / את מאת המחברות.

שלחתי לך את שלוש מאות הספרים / את שלוש מאות המחברות.

And:
שלחתי לך את אלף הספרים / את אלף המחברות.

Is this all correct? Can hardly believe it … : )

Or can someone provide me a link with a systematic explanation? I didn't find any after several hours of search.

תודה רבה
Gwunderi


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## hadronic

As a preliminary remark : you're talking about nominative vs accusative, but it has nothing to do with cases, but rather with _definiteness_ of the noun phrase.  

Three cats are eating  שלושה חתולים אוכלים 
The three cats are eating שלושת החתולים אוכלים 
I see three cats  אני רואה שלושה חתולים
I see the three cats אני רואה את שלושת החתולים. 

חמישה gives חמשת _xaméšet-_, not *חמישת *_xamišat-_. 

In the feminine, some changes pronunciation : שלוש _šaloš_ becomes _šloš-. 
_
In this link you'll find the entire tables, for both standalone and dependent numbers. 
A Reference Grammar of Modern Hebrew


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## Gwunderi

hadronic said:


> In this link you'll find the entire tables, for both standalone and dependent numbers.
> A Reference Grammar of Modern Hebrew



That's exactly what I looked for! Thanks a lot.



hadronic said:


> As a preliminary remark : you're talking about nominative vs accusative, but it has nothing to do with cases, but rather with _definiteness_ of the noun phrase.
> 
> Three cats are eating  שלושה חתולים אוכלים
> The three cats are eating שלושת החתולים אוכלים
> I see three cats  אני רואה שלושה חתולים
> I see the three cats אני רואה את שלושת החתולים.
> 
> חמישה gives חמשת _xaméšet-_, not *חמישת *_xamišat-_.
> 
> In the feminine, some changes pronunciation : שלוש _šaloš_ becomes _šloš-. _



So it has nothing to to with cases, but with definite / indefinite nouns. I never saw sentences of the form: שלושת החתולים אוכלים before (definite), but your explanation now seems very logical : )

I already thought that the pronunciation possibly changes in some cases*, but there is even nikud in the link you provided.

Also interesting that the ordinal numbers take the definite article, as:
הבית השלישי

Thanks again, also for the very helpful link - תודה רבה
Gwunderi

* Edit: I don't mean cases such as accusative, dative etc. here, just to be sure : )


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