# Learning Egyptian Arabic



## saleha.afa

I can read and write Arabic but am keen on learning Egyptian Arabic for conversational purposes ? Where can I find help ?


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## cherine

Hello Saleha and welcome to the forum 
You may be interested by the links in the resources sticky, specially those concerned with colloquial Arabic.
One more way to learn colloquial (Egyptian or other) is to listen to the songs and watch movies, this is how the Egyptian Arabic got known by everybody 

And don't hesitate to come to us with your questions whenever you have any


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## saleha.afa

have started with it aldready . 
Alf Shukran !


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## EnIrAc

Is there a big difference between Morrocan Arabic and Egyptian Arabic?


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## Tariq_Ibn_zyad

EnIrAc said:


> Is there a big difference between Morrocan Arabic and Egyptian Arabic?


a lot!


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## goheels

EnIrAc said:


> Is there a big difference between Morrocan Arabic and Egyptian Arabic?



Enough that Moroccans sometimes need translators themselves.  So I've heard.


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## MarcB

EnIrAc said:


> Is there a big difference between Morrocan Arabic and Egyptian Arabic?


If you look at this site you can see for yourself.

http://fsi-language-courses.com/Arabic.aspx
(Western Arabic for those accustomed to Eastern Arabic; comparison of Levantine Arabic and Egyptian Arabic)


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## EnIrAc

Thanks a lot to the three of you .
MarcB, the link you gave me is very interesting.  
But how must we pronounce the "9" ?


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## goheels

> But how must we pronounce the "9"?



That's a q, a distinctly Arabic sound like a k in the back of the throat. From the "Important: Read before you post" thread at the top of the board.


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## Amira_NZ

goheels said:


> Enough that Moroccans sometimes need translators themselves. So I've heard.


 
lool!!

But yea theres a LOT of difference between the 2


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## EnIrAc

cherine said:


> colloquial Arabic.
> One more way to learn colloquial (Egyptian or other) is to listen to the songs and watch movies, this is how the Egyptian Arabic got known by everybody


Very interesting link too Cherine, great!   Merci, c'est sympa  
If you have any other one about Egyptian Arabic, it should be very nice from you to share it with us


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## SofiaB

Here you can listen to the Bible mostly in Egyptian/Cairene and some verses in Sa3iidi/Upper Egypt and Sudan


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## suma

saleha.afa said:


> i can read and write arabic but am keen on learning egyptian arabic for conversational purposes ? where can i find help ?


 
If you have access to an Egyptian you should have no problem, Egyptians are very chatty and gregarious.


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## EnIrAc

SofiaB said:


> Here you can listen to the Bible mostly in Egyptian/Cairene and some verses in Sa3iidi/Upper Egypt and Sudan


Thanks a lot Sofia


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## Mklangelo

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
I am interested in learning the Egyptian Colloquial Arabic.  Since I am using Pimsleur, the program only goes to level one.

I have other Arabic language learning programs and am doing self-study.  What would the experienced members in this forum recommend for progressing once the Pimsleur program for Egyptian Arabic is completed?

Watching Egyptian cinema? Right now being exposed to Egyptian Colloquial is possible only in this way. 

Or perhaps using Rosetta for verb usage?   I have read in this forum that that is it's main virtue.

How big a difference in general would there be in the MSA verb usage and that of Egyptian Colloquial?

I realize that these various Arabic language learning programs have been discussed in this forum and I have searched the forums and have found no reference to my specific questions.

Any guidance in this would be greatly appreciated!

شكن


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## MarcB

Vest Pocket Arabic Cortina Language Series =excellent resourse for Egypian with good dialogues, pronunciation teaches Arabic writing with colloquial spelling and transcript and translates literally every word. No audio though.Where Pimsleur leaves off.
Very cheap price.
Yes watch Egyptian soap operas and download songs and lyrics from the net. listen while you are driving. Our resourses sticky has fusha and different forms of colloquial.


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## Abu Rashid

I don't really know of any courses specifically for Egyptian, but al-kitab fi ta3allam al-3arabiyyah does teach some Egyptian.

I don't think Rosetta Stone will help you if you're learning Egyptian.


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## Mklangelo

Thanks for the excellent replies.  I am also using Alif Baa to learn the Alphabet which I understand is the same to all Arabic Speakers.   Now the Alif Baa and the later portions of that course are Egyptian?  I do know that the dialogues on the DVD's contained in Alif Baa are of Egyptian Speakers, Actors posing as University students and Professors.  But I can tell that the pronunciation of  ج is not in the Egyptian manner but in the Levantine and North African way.  So this can make it confusing.


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## MarcB

I have not heard the DVD but Saiidi ( southern Egyptian) pronounces ج like the rest of the Arab world. See this site http://areg.amaksoud.com/node


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## Abu Rashid

> Now the Alif Baa and the later portions of that course are Egyptian?



The course teaches MSA all the way through, but each dialogue (in book 1 anyway, which is all I did) is also given on the DVD in Egyptian Colloquial and some exercises prompt you to recognise and understand the differences between the two.

If you wanted to learn MSA and Egyptian together it's a good book.



> But I can tell that the pronunciation of  ج is not in the Egyptian manner but in the Levantine and North African way



Some of the actors use "gim" others use "jim", I also noticed at the beginning of the book more of them used "jim" (the correct pronunciation) but later they almost all used "gim".


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## palomnik

MarcB:  Once upon a time there was an audio accompaniment to "Vest Pocket Arabic", on a record, I think.  I agree with you that it is an excellent little book.  Does anybody know of any source for the recording any more?


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## Mklangelo

MarcB said:


> Vest Pocket Arabic Cortina Language Series =excellent resourse for Egypian with good dialogues, pronunciation teaches Arabic writing with colloquial spelling and transcript and translates literally every word. No audio though.Where Pimsleur leaves off.
> Very cheap price.
> Yes watch Egyptian soap operas and download songs and lyrics from the net. listen while you are driving. Our resourses sticky has fusha and different forms of colloquial.


*Vest Pocket Arabic Cortina Language Series*  has gotten excellent reviews from native Egyptian speakers for it's authenticity.  I have purchased a copy for future use!

بسم اللة


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## Anatoli

Is there an online/offline reference that gives both Colloquial Egyptian and MSA + translation into English? Unfortunately the texts I have only give one or another. 

Interesting that some phrasebooks (many of them are oriented on Egyptian Arabic) give romanised versions of Egyptian Arabic but the Arabic script is in MSA.

E.g.:
I don't mind - ma-3andeesh mehni3 - ليس عندي مانع
I don't understand - mish feh-him - لم أفهم

You see that romanisation matches Egyptian colloquial but the actual Arabic text is that of MSA.


I am interested in other similar resources for other common dialects where one can compare the formal Arabic with  the spoken. The interface must be English


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## cherine

Mklangelo said:


> *Vest Pocket Arabic Cortina Language Series *has gotten excellent reviews from native Egyptian speakers for it's authenticity. I have purchased a copy for future use!
> 
> بسم اللة


Mklangelo, apart from the typo (Allah) is written with a haa2 هـ not a taa2 ة ; we never end something with it; we use it at the begining not the end of actions/speeches...


Anatoli said:


> Is there an online/offline reference that gives both Colloquial Egyptian and MSA + translation into English? Unfortunately the texts I have only give one or another.


The only comparative text I've seen was comparing Egyptian and Levantine Arabic, you'll find a link for it in the resources sticky.
But I hope someone will find what you need. 


> Interesting that some phrasebooks (many of them are oriented on Egyptian Arabic) give romanised versions of Egyptian Arabic but the Arabic script is in MSA.
> 
> E.g.:
> I don't mind - ma-2andeesh mehni2 - ليس عندي مانع
> I don't understand - mish feh-him - لم أفهم
> 
> You see that romanisation matches Egyptian colloquial but the actual Arabic text is that of MSA.


This is a "dangerous" phrasebook. The transliterations are misleading.
We don't say mehni2, but maane3; and we don't say feh-him, but faahem.

As for the Arabic written sentences, the only explanation I can think of is that colloquial forms don't have a fixed standard, so each person writes them the way he/she wants.


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## Anatoli

Thanks, Cherine. 
eh - long e (met, not meet), no "h" sound. I believe they are trying to differentiate plain aa from a deep one.
ee - as in feed.

The transliteration is confusing and non-standard, I agree but I am surprised they put wrong consonants

E.g. mehni*2* instead of mehni*3*, that's a serious mistake/typo. Is it ح in Egyptian, not ع?

Is it possible that e and i can be interchangeable? I mean if you say faahem, I will hear it as feh-him?

The phrasebook is silly but it was at least linking MSA with the Egyptian dialect in a funny way, not consistently though - sometimes dialectal words are spelled out the way they are pronounced.


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## cherine

Anatoli said:


> Thanks, Cherine.


You're welcome Anatoli 


> eh - long e (met, not meet), no "h" sound. I believe they are trying to differentiate plain aa from a deep one.
> ee - as in feed.


If I understood you correctly, the "eh" transliterate a long "e". This is way, the transliteration is less misleading than I thought. But it's still mistaken.


> The transliteration is confusing and non-standard, I agree but I am surprised they put wrong consonants
> 
> E.g. mehni*2* instead of mehni*3*, that's a serious mistake/typo. Is it ح in Egyptian, not ع?


No. We say مانع with a ع not a ح .
I noticed that you transliterated ماعنديش with 2 instead of 3. Maybe your book has an overall different transliteration method.


> Is it possible that e and i can be interchangeable? I mean if you say faahem, I will hear it as feh-him?


Non plus! 
We have "e" and "i" in colloquial Egyptian.
This word is pronounced with "e" not "i".


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## Anatoli

It's a pity to find that I've got another book with errors.   As for maani2, they probably mixed colloquial with MSA in this case. 


> Maybe your book has an overall different transliteration method.


It does but I used this forum's convention - `ayn (2ayn) was transliterated with a supescript "c".


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## elroy

This forum's convention is to transliterate ع with a 3 and ء with a 2. 

That explains some of the confusion!


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## MarcB

Anatoli said:


> Is there an online/offline reference that gives both Colloquial Egyptian and MSA + translation into English? Unfortunately the texts I have only give one or another.


Anatoli, See this http://wikitravel.org/en/Arabic_phrasebook
wth links to Egyptian,Lebanese and Jordanian.
Also the link in my post #5.


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## Mklangelo

I'm glad to see that my original question has gotten some good exchange.

And thank you Cherine for the correction.  *Vest Pocket Arabic Cortina Language Series *is the thing I was beginning.  I have much to learn.


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## Josh_

Concerning the second vowel in فاهم (the equivalent of kasra in MSA) in the Egyptian dialect I think its sound is not exactly like the English 'i' or 'e' but rather a sound in between. I think this is especially the case when the vowel occurs in an unstressed syllable as it does in فاهم. Thus many choose 'i' in their transliterations and many choose 'e' in order to approximate the sound. I prefer 'i' and would transliterate the aforementioned word as 'faahim' because to me the vowel sounds more like the English 'i' than the 'e'. 
But that's just my personal take on it.


Now to the topic at hand.  As evidenced by this thread there are many resources for Egyptian Arabic, but unfortunately, there are no resources for advanced study of the dialect, to my knowledge.  Nevertheless, I'll suggest a few books that I have.

"Colloquial Arabic of Egypt" -- Russell McGuirk
This is an older version (1986).  It was the first Egyptian Arabic book I got and it helped me out.  There are also some nice Goha stories towards the end.  It is, of course, a basic course and is composed of 16 (short) lessons.   I would say it covers Egyptian through one semester's worth of study, possibly a little more.  This course comes with one cassette.

There is a newer version of this book by different authors, but I have not used it so can't say whether it is good or bad.

"Yalla ndardish bil3arabi" (Let's chat in Arabic) -- Ahmed Hassanein and Mona Kamel
This is put out by the American University in Cairo (AUC) and I am not sure if it is not available in the US or other countries. It is also a basic starter course and is composed of 20 lessons.  It also probably covers a semester's worth of study or a bit more.  This course comes with six cassette tapes.

"An Intensive Course in Egyptian Colloquial Arabic" -- Abbas El-Tonsi and Laila al-Sawi
This is also put out by the AUC and like the previous title I don't know if it is available in the US or other countries, but my thinking is that it is not.  This course is unique in that it is a geared towards those who have already learned fusHa to a decent level and want to learn Egyptian colloquial.  It is also the only book I am seen that goes beyond the basic level (but of course as previously noted it presupposes one has already learned fusHa).  It is composed of two parts (two separate books).  The first part is composed of 5 units, and the second 4 units.  Each unit is composed of 4 sets (like chapters).  Each book has about 200 pages (so 400 total) and of course each unit is built upon the previous.  Going through these books I would say they cover three semesters' worth of study.  So one could gain a considerable conversational ability after completing these.  If you could find these I recommend them. 

"Kullu tamām" -- Manfred Woidich and Rabha Heinen-Nasr
I recently bought this book (which could possibly could be considered a textbook) just to see how it measured up.  It is published by AUC and is based off a Dutch version originating from the Department of Arabic Studies at the University of Amsterdam (which apparently has quite a program for the study of Egyptian colloquial).  Anyway, it is a beginner course starting from scratch and is composed of 17 lessons. It is a little more in depth grammar-wise than the other courses mentioned, and probably goes over most, if not all, of the relevant grammar of Egyptian.  It also has many, many exercises for practice.  While I did not learn anything new, I did make an interesting connection that I had not thought of before (related below)*.   As a beginning course, it seems good.  It comes with a CD.

*Arabic is, of course, not an agglutinative language but in the dialects, namely Egyptian it kind of resembles one in certain aspects.  The preposition 'li', when used with a verb, is often attached to that verb in vocal patterns.  And as we know object pronons are attached to verbs, nouns and prepositions.  Example:

2aalitli > 2aal + li + ii > She said to me; she told me.

When one negates a verb a common form is to use ma+the verb+sh.  Example:

ma2alsh -- he did not say

Also, 'bi' is a common addition to verbs to indicate an imperfect or some kind of continuous activity.  Example:

biyiktib -- he is writing; he writes.

So all these attachments can lead to some complicated verb forms:

mabyib3atuhalnaash -- They're not sending her/it to us.  (the breakdown:  ma + bi + yib3atu + ha + li + na + sh)

I also recently bought some software -- Egyptian Arabic Vocab Clinic 2.0 .  I don't know why but it seemed like it was going to be an intensive study of sorts, but instead it is just a list of vocab words grouped by category.  Needless to say I was disappointed.  For me it was a waste of money, but a beginner would probably derive benefit from it.  All the words are pronounced by natives and written in Arabic and English transliteration.

Anyway, those are the books and software I have used, to some extent anyway, and I think would be useful for beginners.  As for more advanced study, the third book I listed may be beneficial.  But of course, if you want to learn to a decent level finding a native to converse with, which is what I did and how I have been able to achieve a decent level of proficiency, is best.  Movies and radio are of course also good, especially if you have no native partner to converse with.

If you have any questions about what I've said please don't hesitate to ask.


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## Mklangelo

Thank you so much Josh!


Abbas El-Tonsi is also one of the authors of Alif Baa.  My studies are at the most basic levels.    

So  _"An Intensive Course in Egyptian Colloquial Arabic"_ -- Abbas El-Tonsi and Laila al-Sawi  is your recommendation for the next step after Pimsleur? 

    Other than some Soap Operas?  LOL    Speaking of Soap Operas, could you recommend one?   I know it's a tawdry question...

From your grace.


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## Anatoli

Sorry for the confusion, guys. I corrected 2 to 3 in my original post. 

MarcB, thanks for the useful link  but it doesn't compare or link colloquial to MSA. So if I learn a dialectal word, I have to find a equivalent in MSA.


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## Nikola

Ahmad Fuad Negm* أحمد فؤاد نجم *.audio Egyptan poetry, beyond the beginning. Josh what do you think? fixng link 1. http://www.yassar.freesurf.fr/authors/negem.html
1.Poetry written in colloquial Egyptia Arabic
2. http://arabfuture.free.fr/imam_najm/ poetry chanted with oud .You can read the words and listen to them on audio player. There is no transliteration so you must read Arabic the pronunciation is Cairo Egyptan.I thnk you can learn a lot here.
This works well with the books metioned by Josh,MarcB,Abu Rashid and Anatol.


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## MarcB

Anatoli,I show MSA then link to Egypt. From the link in post #19.


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## Anatoli

That's interesting, thanks


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## Abu Rashid

Anatoli,

I have a set of 3 books called "Arabic For You" which I picked up in Cairo airport. They teach Fus7a and Egyptian, but it seems to start you off with Fus7a and then move you onto Egyptian, rather than have a side by side comparison.

They are mostly just phrasebooks with the usual topics like "In the airport", "in the hotel" etc. but it has a bit of grammar as well.


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## Anatoli

I also have "Colloquial Arabic of Egypt".


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## Mklangelo

Nikola said:


> Ahmad Fuad  Negm  audio Egyptan poetry, beyond the beginnig.  Josh what do you think?



thanks for the reply Nikola but that first link for Ahmad Fuad Negm is a link to some web portal or some such. I will certainly take advantage of the audio poetry as soon as I am able...


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## Josh_

Mklangelo said:


> Thank you so much Josh!
> 
> 
> Abbas El-Tonsi is also one of the authors of Alif Baa.  My studies are at the most basic levels.


Yes, I have used all the books in that series in my university Arabic studies, and believe them to be pretty good.



> So  _"An Intensive Course in Egyptian Colloquial Arabic"_ -- Abbas El-Tonsi and Laila al-Sawi  is your recommendation for the next step after Pimsleur?


Possibly, if one has achieved a decent level in MSA, or at least knows how to read the script.  I forgot to mention that the Egyptian Arabic dialogues and vocab lists are all in Arabic script, but since the pronunciation of MSA and Egyptian differ they use a series of symbols (that must be memorized) to show how the words are pronounced in Egyptian Arabic.  Also, the version I have is from 1986, typed on a typewriter with those symbols written in by hand, and copied on what must have been a poor printer because the print quality is poor.  So all that can really be a strain on the eyes.  If I can ever make it back to Cairo I would see if they had an updated version.  Anyway, regardless of those few shortcomings it is probably still the best written resource for Egyptian Arabic beyond a beginning level.

I have not used the Pimsleur so I don't know how far it goes, but you may want to try "Kullu Tamam."  There are some good dialogues and large vocab lists in there.  I think someone could achieve a decent conversational level at the end of this book.



> Other than some Soap Operas?  LOL    Speaking of Soap Operas, could you recommend one?   I know it's a tawdry question...
> 
> From your grace.


To tell the truth I am the wrong guy to ask.  I watched Egyptian TV when I was in Egypt, but I cannot remember the names of any of the shows.  It has been a few years since I have been back there. You may want to try this site (click on the radio icon or the TV icon for radio and television respectively). I would use it more, but I have regular dial up internet and sometimes it doesn't work so well.  Also, this site is good for listening to Egyptian Arabic -- the sound quality is very good so you'll really be able to make out the words.



> Ahmad Fuad Negm*أحمد فؤاد نجم* .audio Egyptan poetry, beyond the beginnig.  Josh what do you think?


As I mentioned I have dial up and my computer is slow, so I'll listen to it when I go to the university and get back to you.


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## Nikola

Josh you can listen with dial up. ahmad negm is the poet and sheik imam plays oud. Others  if you can read the script, listen and read now you will learn a lot.


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## Josh_

> Josh you can listen with dial up. ahmad negm is the poet and sheik imam plays oud. Others if you can read the script, listen and read now you will learn a lot.


I still have to wait for it to download.


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## Mklangelo

Josh Adkins said:


> Yes, I have used all the books in that series in my university Arabic studies, and believe them to be pretty good.
> 
> Possibly, if one has achieved a decent level in MSA, or at least knows how to read the script.  I forgot to mention that the Egyptian Arabic dialogues and vocab lists are all in Arabic script, but since the pronunciation of MSA and Egyptian differ they use a series of symbols (that must be memorized) to show how the words are pronounced in Egyptian Arabic.  Also, the version I have is from 1986, typed on a typewriter with those symbols written in by hand, and copied on what must have been a poor printer because the print quality is poor.  So all that can really be a strain on the eyes.  If I can ever make it back to Cairo I would see if they had an updated version.  Anyway, regardless of those few shortcomings it is probably still the best written resource for Egyptian Arabic beyond a beginning level.
> 
> I have not used the Pimsleur so I don't know how far it goes, but you may want to try "Kullu Tamam."  There are some good dialogues and large vocab lists in there.  I think someone could achieve a decent conversational level at the end of this book.


Apparently, after completion of the Pimsluer comprehensive Egyptian Arabic, one goes from the beginning to the intermediate-low level of communication on the ACTFL Scale. This level is characterized by the ability to participate in simple, direct conversations on everyday topics, in everyday situations; by being able to satisfy immediate needs, such as ordering food and making simple purchases; and by being able to establish rapport with strangers in a foreign country.

I suppose I would be looking for something with an audio component to it after completion of Pimsleur, along with resuming study of reading and writing.  Pimsleur recommends using no other book or program while using theirs.


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## MarcB

From: The American University in Cairo Press
Kallimni ‘Arabi Aktar An Upper Intermediate Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic (Book & Audio CD) Samia Louis An innovative textbook for learning Egyptian Arabic Paperback - Available October 2007
Kallimni Arabi (book & CD) An Intermediate Course in Spoken Egyptian Arabic Samia Louis Paperback - Available Now


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