# FR: they sell cheese here



## Jacques818

Bonjour à tous! J'écris sur le forum parce que j'ai une question à propos d'une traduction. Si je voulais dire: "They sell cheese here" en français, est-ce que la traduction utiliserait l'article défini ou indéfini pour le mot "cheese". Alias, serait-il "Ils vendent le fromage là" ou "Ils vendent du fromage là"? Je sais que je pourrais également dire "Le fromage se vend ici" mais les premières deux phrases me déroutaient; laquelle serait correcte? Merci tout le monde!


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## jann

If you say _ils vendent le fromage ici_, then either you are talking about "the cheese" - i.e., some specific cheese you mentioned before - or else you are talking about all the cheese in the world (which wouldn't make a whole lot of sense). 

To say "they sell cheese here" you need the partitive:  _ils vendent du fromage ici_.
To say "they sell cheeses here" you can use the plural indefinite article: _ils vendent des fromages ici._

I'm not sure why you switched from "here"/_ici_ to "there"/_là_.


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## Jacques818

Merci pour votre réponse! C'est plus clair maintenant. Oh et la raison pour le "là" est parce que l'on m'a dit que les français utilisent "là" pour dire "here" au lieu de "ici". J'ai entendu dire que "Là" est plus usité alors je l'ai utilisé ICI. haha Merci encore une fois!


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## Nicomon

Bonjour Jacques,

Je ne sais pas si en France - quoique j'en doute -  on traduit "here" par « là » plutôt que « ici », mais ce n'est pas le cas au Québec.  

They sell cheese there = « ils vendent /on vend du fromage là / à cet endroit »
They sell cheese here = « ils vendent / on vend du fromage ici ».


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## Solax

Est-ce qu'on peut dire "_On y vend du fromage_?"


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## jann

Solax said:


> Est-ce qu'on peut dire "_On y vend du fromage_?"


Yes, provided that you're not standing in the place that sells cheese when you say those words. 

Thanks for the information about _ici/là_ in Québec, Nicomon.  I know little of the French spoken in Canada, but from what I know of the French spoken in France, this switch is probably less common there than it is in Québec.

It's certainly true that the French say _là_ in some situations when an American would definitely say "here"... but I don't think this sentence about selling cheese would be one of them.  The English sentence with "here" could only be said if you were standing in the place they sell cheese at the moment when you spoke... and it seems to me that the French would tend to use _ici_ in that situation.  

I hope a native speaker will weigh in to confirm or refute!


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## Nicomon

jann said:


> Thanks for the information about _ici/là_ in Québec, Nicomon.  I know little of the French spoken in Canada, but from what I know of the French spoken in France, this switch is probably less common there than it is in Québec.



I'm not sure I get that, Jann.  There is NO switch that I know of in Quebec.

Here = ici  (you're in the place). E.g.: _On peut acheter du fromage, ici / Ici, on vend du bon fromage_. 
There = là  (you are talking about the place or pointing to it). E.g.: someone asked where they could buy cheese and you say... 
_Je vous suggère d'aller là; on y vend du fromage _.

Can you provide an example where  you would say  "here", and they would say « là » in France - and perhaps Quebec too - assuming I didn't understand well?  I'm puzzled.

Edit :  I just found examples.  
"Spring is here"... we'd say in French:  _C'est le printemps / le printemps est là_.   But this is not related to a place.
"Mr X is not here at the moment"...  I would say in French  _M. X n'est pas *là*_ OR _M. X n'est pas *ici *en ce moment_.  More often the latter, though
"Are you there?  Yes, I'm here."  ... and in French  _Es-tu là?  Oui, je suis là_.


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## geostan

jann said:


> Yes, provided that you're not standing in the place that sells cheese when you say those words.
> 
> Thanks for the information about _ici/là_ in Québec, Nicomon.  I know little of the French spoken in Canada, but from what I know of the French spoken in France, this switch is probably less common there than it is in Québec.



I don't think it is any less common than in Canada._ Ici_ tends to be very specific, almost like saying _right here_. I think _là_ would be fine in this context. 

I was surprised at all the comments using_ ils vendent_.  This is definitely a case for the pronoun _on_.


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## Nicomon

Geostan,  I tend to agree with Jann.  

In this context I would definitely say « _*ici*_ ».  I can't answer for the other francophones.

_here = ici _& _right here = ici même _= dans cette épicerie/cette charcuterie ou cette ville où je suis au moment où je parle. 

_là = there_, when you're talking about a specific place.





> (Marquant un lieu autre ou éloigné de celui où l’on se trouve). Ici et là. Je les vois, ils sont là. C’est là que l’accident s’est produit. J’irai là où tu iras.



The only case I would say _là _to mean_ here _= a place where I or someone else is (or isn't)... would be with « être ». 





> [Courant] (Marquant un lieu rapproché, le lieu où l’on se trouve). Je suis là.



Now about _ils_ and _on_... I suggested both in my first post, as imo, both are acceptable.   _Ils_ = (sous entendu) _les proprios_.


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## jann

Nicomon said:


> I'm not sure I get that, Jann.  There is NO switch that I know of in Quebec.


I'm sorry, I totally misread your post #4 above.   I thought you were saying that you do use _là_ more in Québec.  Never mind!

PS. The examples you found of situations where people say _là_ in French but "here" in English are exactly the sorts of sentences I was thinking about.


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## avil

Would it be wrong to say "du fromage se vend ici" ?


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## berndf

avil said:


> Would it be wrong to say "du fromage se vend ici" ?


The partitive "du" in the subject position of a sentence sounds totally unnatural. You could say:
"Du fromage[,] ce/ça se vend ici."


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## Fred_C

berndf said:


> The partitive "du" in the subject position of a sentence sounds totally unnatural. You could say:
> "Du fromage, ce *ça* se vend ici."


 Hi,
I do not agree.
I think you made a confusion with the sentence "le fromage sent mauvais", which comes more natural if you say "le fromage, ça sent mauvais", (provided that you mean that cheese in general does not smell good).

for the partitive article, this sort of broken constuction is not necessary.

However, this sentence "du fromage se vend ici", although perfectly possible, is not very natural in this case.


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## berndf

I agree that "ça" is better than "ce"; I had changed that in the mean time.
This kind of "broken constuction", as you call it, is very popular in "marketing-speak". That is why I would consider it possible.


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## Nicomon

berndf said:


> I agree that "ça" is better than "ce"; I had changed that in the mean time.
> This kind of "broken constuction", as you call it, is very popular in "marketing-speak". That is why I would consider it possible.



True.  You could hear for example  _Le lait, c'est bon_.  I however agree with Fred that  _Du fromage, ça se vend ici_ doesn't sound usual... not even for marketing speech.  

J'imagine bien par contre _Du fromage, on en vend ici_ sur une affiche... là où on vend du fromage, justement.


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