# nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai



## q_006

I was playing "Fragile" on the Wii and came this text:
"Hyotto shitara, nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai demo nan da ka kurai"

The best I could do is: "Perhaps, what grandfather left behind is here but somewhat dark"

Pointers on how to translate that (correctly) will be greatly appreciated.


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## Hiro Sasaki

1, "Hyotto shitara, = By any chance, 

2, ojiisan = (1)middle age man, (2) uncle. ( 3) In some contexts,
it is " I", or "Me". For example, a man says to his son :お父さんは　この　まんじゅうが　好きだ。　Ｉ　（　Your dad ) like this cake.
 Never "grandfather" = OJIISAN" and not OJISAN.


"I think that I may find something I left here. I wonder why it's dark 
here,"


Hiro Sasaki






q_006 said:


> I was playing "Fragile" on the Wii and came this text:
> "Hyotto shitara, nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai demo nan da ka kurai"
> 
> The best I could do is: "Perhaps, what grandfather left behind is here but somewhat dark"
> 
> Pointers on how to translate that (correctly) will be greatly appreciated.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
Hiro Sasaki,

I think you are miss-leading of oj*ii*san, of the original sentence.
I think it is some kind of roll playing game, isn't it?

So he might be grandfather, don't you think so?


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## Hiro Sasaki

Wishfull said:


> Hi.
> Hiro Sasaki,
> 
> I think you are miss-leading of oj*ii*san, of the original sentence.
> I think it is some kind of roll playing game, isn't it?
> 
> So he might be grandfather, don't you think so?


 

No, I wrote "middle age". The life span is longer now. 50 years ago,
those who are 60 years old are called "Ojiisan". Now, they will get 
angry  if called so,.! Never call me Ojiisan. !!!

Hiro Sasaki


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## Flaminius

Hiro Sasaki said:


> 2, oj*i*san = (1)middle-aged man, (2) uncle. ( 3) In some contexts,
> it is " I", or "Me". [...]


Hi,

The word in the first post of this thread is _ojiisan_, which primarily means an old man or a grandfather.  A middle-aged man is _ojisan_, which also means an uncle.  An _ojiisan_ is always older than a _ojisan_ as pseudo-kinship terms (Ie, reference of endearment to complete strangers).



> Never "grandfather" = OJIISAN" and not OJISAN.


This comment of yours is difficult to understand, *Hiro Sasaki*.  Are you saying grandfather is not _ojiisan_ and it is also not _ojisan_?  What would a grandchild call his grandfather if he were neither?  How exactly do you think the _ojiisan_ in the first post should be translated (I see you have taken it to mean the speaker himself but, then again, whether he thinks of himself as middle-aged or old is a good question to ask)?

If you are over 60 and refuse to be called _ojiisan_ by anyone who is not your grandchild, you are taking issue with an idea how old age should be defined.  You would say 60 is still middle age nowadays and want to be called _ojisan_.  You have given a new definition of middle age.  It follows, then, that age groups which have been hitherto classified as old age should be called _ojisan_.

I take much of your claim has become an established social convention already.  This does not mean, however, you can call a middle-aged man _ojiisan_.


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## Hiro Sasaki

I add a remark. You can call "Ojisan"your uncle who are 85 years old.
At any age, he is your uncle,


His little niece 8 years old  may call (1)  him Ojiichan o Ojichan. His niece 16 years old may call him Ojisan or Ojiisan.

Women tend to use "xxx chan" more often. A care take woman (called 
"helper" here o "HERUPAA"(We pronounce ) 50 years old may call "Obaachan" a woman 90 years old, who is not her grandmother.

Obaasan, Obaachan = 1. grandmother 2. Old woman 

We call less often "Ojiichan", "Obaachan", "Ojiisan" "Obaasan" an old 
person 70 years old you are not familar with.

Your grandsons or granddaughters will call you Ojiisan or Ojiichan, 
Obaasan, Obaachan, but never "Ojisan", Ojichan, Obasan nor "Obachan".


As in English, "aunt", "uncle", "grandpa", "granma" can be used if you 
are not his or her relative.

In fables, " Mukashi, Mukashi, Ojiisan to obaasan ga sunde imashita".

Hiro Sasaki


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## Wishfull

Hi, Hiro Sasaki.

I know what you wanted to say very well, but in this context;

The role playing game's hero is looking for the tresure which his father's father (grandfather) had hidden long time ago, isn't it?

We call our father's father, "ojiisan."


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## Hiro Sasaki

Wishfull said:


> Hi, Hiro Sasaki.
> 
> I know what you wanted to say very well, but in this context;
> 
> The role playing game's hero is looking for the tresure which his father's father (grandfather) had hidden long time ago, isn't it?
> 
> We call our father's father, "ojiisan."


 

You are right.


Hiro Sasaki


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## q_006

Just needed some clarification. Is "nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai" one sentence or two?


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## Wishfull

One sentence.


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## q_006

Wishfull said:


> One sentence.



Ok, then my understanding of japanese sentence structure is lacking. I thought sentences end with the verb or verb + particle.


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## Wishfull

_*There might be something which my grandfather had hidden long time ago.*_

Like this English sentence, Japanese one sentence may be complicated, from time to time.


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## q_006

I guess my problem is that I can't see how the sentence is structured. Questions that I have are: is "nani ka" an object?, "ojiisan no" should be "ojiisan no kuruma" or something like that? where is the main clause? "ojiisan no nokoshita" ... how is that even possible?

As you can see, I'm slightly lost


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## Hiro Sasaki

q_006 said:


> I guess my problem is that I can't see how the sentence is structured. Questions that I have are: is "nani ka" an object?, "ojiisan no" should be "ojiisan no kuruma" or something like that? where is the main clause? "ojiisan no nokoshita" ... how is that even possible?
> 
> As you can see, I'm slightly lost


 
1. Kamo Shirenai : It may be possible that xxxx, it is posssible that 

2. nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru  ;something that my grandfather had left here.

Something that my grandfather had left may be found here.

Hiro Sasaki


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## Derselbe

q_006 said:


> I guess my problem is that I can't see how the sentence is structured.



nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai demo nan da ka kurai


1) nani ka
Is best translated with "something". Actually it is related to "mono". 
nani ka mono = something
nani ka tabemono = some food

2) ojiisan no
I understand that as a possessive. The thing which was left behind belonged to ojiisan. I'm not sure but I think you could replace "no" in this context with "ga".

3) nokoshita mono
In english one would express that idea by a relative clause. 
A thing which was left behind. In Japanese the "relative clause" comes before the noun.
eki ni iku basu = the bus which goes to the station

4) aru
verb: polite form arimasu. => there is

5) ka mo shirenai
idiom meaning "it's possible" "maybe". 
http://www.guidetojapanese.org/certainty.html

nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono ga aru ka mo shirenai

Think of "nani ka ojiisan no nokoshita mono" as the subject. "aru" is the verb.
=> Possibly/Probably there is something that grandfather has left. But it's dark, somehow. (Probably the room where you are searching granfather's thing)


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## q_006

Thank you so much, Derselbe! Now I understand that much much better. 
Quick questions:


is "Nani ka" an adjective to mono?
if yes, then why "ojiisan no nokoshita" slapped right in the middle of it

thanks again!


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## Derselbe

q_006 said:


> Thank you so much, Derselbe! Now I understand that much much better.
> Quick questions:
> 
> 
> is "Nani ka" an adjective to mono?
> if yes, then why "ojiisan no nokoshita" slapped right in the middle of it
> 
> thanks again!



I don't know if those categories work very well for Japanese. So actually I don't know what to call it. But I think nani ka usually comes first when describing a noun:

nani ka oishii tabemono ga aru?  
=> Is there some tasty food.
oishii nani ka tabemono ga aru? 
=> Is there tasty some food. 

So I think the best way is to think of "ojiisan no okoshita" as the same semantical function as "oishii". Since Japanese doesn't have relative clauses, what we call relative clause is usually converted into something like a participle. It's somewhat comparably to adjectives.

nani ka omoshiroi mono
=> some interesting thing

nani ka ojiisan no nokishita mono
=> some by grandfather left behind thing (this is obviously not very good English, but I hope you get the idea)

I'm sorry. I could explain it a lot better in German, I think. Hope it helpes anyway.


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## Hiro Sasaki

Derselbe said:


> I don't know if those categories work very well for Japanese. So actually I don't know what to call it. But I think nani ka usually comes first when describing a noun:
> 
> nani ka oishii tabemono ga aru?
> => Is there some tasty food.
> oishii nani ka tabemono ga aru?
> => Is there tasty some food.
> 
> So I think the best way is to think of "ojiisan no okoshita" as the same semantical function as "oishii". Since Japanese doesn't have relative clauses, what we call relative clause is usually converted into something like a participle. It's somewhat comparably to adjectives.
> 
> nani ka omoshiroi mono
> => some interesting thing
> 
> nani ka ojiisan no nokishita mono
> => some by grandfather left behind thing (this is obviously not very good English, but I hope you get the idea)
> 
> I'm sorry. I could explain it a lot better in German, I think. Hope it helpes anyway.


 
nani ka oishii tabemono ga aru?  
=> Is there some tasty food.
oishii nani ka tabemono ga aru?  This does not sounds incorrect.
Are there some(any)  delicious foods ? 
Something delicious are served here ? Do you serve some(any) 
delicious foods ?  Do they serve something delicious ( in that [
restaurant )?


=> Is there tasty some food.  This can be OK.

この町にどこか　おもしろいところある　？

Are there some (any) interesting places in this town ?

Hiro Sasaki


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