# spießig



## temujin

Hi,

I have problems getting the full meaning of the word "Spisig", used slightly derogative (I think).
(sorry, but at this moment I don´t have any context...)
t.


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## Jana337

temujin said:
			
		

> Hi,
> 
> I have problems getting the full meaning of the word "Spisig", used slightly derogative (I think).
> (sorry, but at this moment I don´t have any context...)
> t.



Hi Temujin,

it spells "spießig". Similar words: spießbürgerlich, der Spießer.

It is a derogatory word that young and old rebels use to label middle class people with uninspiring lives full of routine and with a penchant for conformity.

If you have read Babbitt by Sinclair Lewis, that's it.

Hope this helps.

Jana


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## Whodunit

Possible translations of spießig into English:

- petty bourgeois
- (very) middle-class
- philistine
- narrow-minded
- "square"
- white-bread

I personally prefer/use the underlined word.


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Possible translations of spießig into English:
> 
> - petty bourgeois
> - (very) middle-class
> - philistine
> - narrow-minded
> - "square"
> - white-bread
> 
> I personally prefer/use the underlined word.



"Philistine" is used very infrequently.  I don't know that there's a good English equivalent - perhaps "bourgeois" said with the right tone of voice...


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> "Philistine" is used very infrequently. I don't know that there's a good English equivalent - perhaps "bourgeois" said with the right tone of voice...


I think Philistine is excellent, but I agree that it is not frequently used. Personally I like "provincial", and it can be either an adjective or noun, so it covers both spießig and Spießer. 

G


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## sohc4

gaer said:
			
		

> I think Philistine is excellent, but I agree that it is not frequently used. Personally I like "provincial", and it can be either an adjective or noun, so it covers both spießig and Spießer.


What about square?  Would that be too colloquial?  "Spießig" isn't exactly formal, either...

Axl


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## Jana337

And parochial? Yes, I know, not really an equivalent...

Jana


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> And parochial? Yes, I know, not really an equivalent...
> 
> Jana



Doesn't "parochial" have to do with churches or with being concerned with a specific region?


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## gaer

sohc4 said:
			
		

> What about square? Would that be too colloquial? "Spießig" isn't exactly formal, either...
> 
> Axl


For an informal word, "square" may be too square. 

In other words, I'm not sure it's use much by younger people.

"White bread" is interesting, but you can never quite be sure when it is used just for people who are narrow-minded or for "white" as oppsed to "black".

The problem is that you need informal or slang words that mean "provincial"—or "Philistine"—and that may not be possible.

Gaer


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## Jana337

elroy said:
			
		

> Doesn't "parochial" have to do with churches or with being concerned with a specific region?



Certainly there is no gainsaying. But "being concerned with a specific region" in a very negative sense, right?
Isn't limited scope of concerns, a restricted outlook and an insular attitude towards foreigners and new ideas what constitutes a _Spießer_? I reiterate: they are by no means equivalents.

Jana


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## gaer

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Certainly there is no gainsaying. But "being concerned with a specific region" in a very negative sense, right?
> Isn't limited scope of concerns, a restricted outlook and an insular attitude towards foreigners and new ideas what constitutes a _Spießer_? I reiterate: they are by no means equivalents.
> 
> Jana


I agree, but provincial, I think, has all those meanings…

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> For an informal word, "square" may be too square.
> 
> In other words, I'm not sure it's use much by younger people.
> 
> 
> Gaer



Except in "be there or be square"!


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## elroy

Jana337 said:
			
		

> Certainly there is no gainsaying. But "being concerned with a specific region" in a very negative sense, right?
> Isn't limited scope of concerns, a restricted outlook and an insular attitude towards foreigners and new ideas what constitutes a _Spießer_? I reiterate: they are by no means equivalents.
> 
> Jana



"Parochial" can be neutral: a geographic study can be parochial, in that it focuses on a very specific region.


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> Except in "be there or be square"!


Is that used?  

Gaer


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> "Parochial" can be neutral: a geographic study can be parochial, in that it focuses on a very specific region.


That's why I still think provincial is the best word:

Noun—*3 a* *:* a person of local or restricted interests or outlook *b* *:* a person lacking urban polish or refinement 

Adj.—*b* *:* lacking the polish of urban society: unsophisticated

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> Is that used?
> 
> Gaer



Yes - like when you invite someone to a party, you can say "be there or be square," as in "be there or be .... [fill in the blank]"

Have you not ever heard this?!


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> Yes - like when you invite someone to a party, you can say "be there or be square," as in "be there or be .... [fill in the blank]"
> 
> Have you not ever heard this?!


Oh, I was wondering if it is used much by people under 20, for instance. Or under 25. I know that saying, but I'm older, so I never know what is "current". 

Gaer


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> Oh, I was wondering if it is used much by people under 20, for instance. Or under 25. I know that saying, but I'm older, so I never know what is "current".
> 
> Gaer



It's used, just not too frequently - so you're right.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> Yes - like when you invite someone to a party, you can say "be there or be square," as in "be there or be .... [fill in the blank]"
> 
> Have you not ever heard this?!



Well, does "a person who is square" mean "pantywaist"???


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## elroy

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Well, does "a person who is square" mean "pantywaist"???



No.  "Pantywaist" means effeminate.

"Square" basically means uncool, old-fashioned.  Here's what dictionary.com says:



> A person who is regarded as dull, rigidly conventional, and out of touch with current trends.


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## Whodunit

elroy said:
			
		

> No.  "Pantywaist" means effeminate.



Okay, that's how I understood it first.


elroy said:


> "Square" basically means uncool, old-fashioned. Here's what dictionary.com says:


Okay, now I get your phrase!


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## Oceanboy

How would you then say in german?
Do germans have a „square“ mentality?
Haben die Deutschen eine spießige Mentalität?
And in this same context :
Do you find my friend Jenny too square?
Yes, i do. 
weil, she is half german!
Would the word „spießig“ fit ?

Many thanks.


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## Schlabberlatz

Oceanboy said:


> Haben die Deutschen eine spießige Mentalität?




Ich würde sagen:
Haben die Deutschen eine Spießermentalität?



Oceanboy said:


> Would the word „spießig“ fit ?




So sehe ich es, aber ich bin kein englischer Muttersprachler. Frage an diese: Kann man es auch mit "straight" ausdrücken? "She is so straight!" – „Die ist so spießig!“


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## deltron

Schlabberlatz said:


> So sehe ich es, aber ich bin kein englischer Muttersprachler. Frage an diese: Kann man es auch mit "straight" ausdrücken? "She is so straight!" – „Die ist so spießig!“


At least for AmE, straight wouldn't work. If I heard that, it would mean the person is extremely heterosexual. 

I always hear spießig along with (gut)bürgerlich to describe neighborhoods, like a neighborhood wouldn't have too many good bars because it's too spießig and bürgerlich. In this case spießig would be closer to conservative.

"Square" is way too old fashioned for me, and I would never say philistine. The question is what makes this person spießig? Is it their politics, or their attitude about sex/drugs? Kleinkariert is a really nice adjective in German that might describe that behavior, but it doesn't apply to every instance of Spießigkeit.


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## Kajjo

deltron said:


> I always hear spießig along with (gut)bürgerlich to describe neighborhoods


_Spießig_ is quite negatively connotated, a mild form of insult. I don't think English has a good equivalent for it, unfortunately. The term _square_ seems to be somewhat restricted to AmE and is colloquial, isn't it? 

_Spießig _as personality trait is a mixture of not being modern, being narrow-minded, very much into rules and "the way it always was", old-fashioned decoration, focused on neatness by the book, often lower middle-class. 

_Gutbürgerlich _is mostly used for traditional, hearty food, simple _bürgerlich _for traditional, conservative middle-class (but of course also in the sense of "civil", depending on context).


deltron said:


> Kleinkariert is a really nice adjective in German that might describe that behavior, but it doesn't apply to every instance of Spießigkeit.


No, this is just one aspect of it and of course can also be true for people who are not "spießig". But yes, it co-incides quite often.


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## deltron

Kajjo said:


> _Spießig_ is quite negatively connotated, a mild form of insult. I don't think English has a good equivalent for it, unfortunately.


Take a look at "uptight." I think it ticks most of the boxes as a character attribute.



Kajjo said:


> The term _square_ seems to be somewhat restricted to AmE and is colloquial, isn't it?


Don't know about BrE, but I'm sure they said it in the 70s as well (haven't seen Austin Powers for a while). The word is extremely dated and not really actively used anymore. Square is the opposite of hip, which isn't said anymore either.


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## Kajjo

deltron said:


> Take a look at "uptight." I think it ticks most of the boxes as a character attribute.


No, uptight is different. It's "verklemmt, verspannt". _Verklemmt _is similar to _prudish _or _inhibited_, _verspannt _to tensed. People that are uptight might be unapproachable, have a rigid demeanor... right? Are contrast at _ease, easy-going, open_?

That's not _spießig_. There really is no word for it in English, _square _might be closest, but still different.



deltron said:


> Square is the opposite of hip, which isn't said anymore either.


So it does focus more on old-fashioned, out-dated, too traditional, the opposite of trendy, stylish, modern?


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## elroy

Maybe “prim and proper” (as a criticism)?


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> Maybe “prim and proper” (as a criticism)?


No, _spießig _is not primarily about prim and proper. It does not focus on neatness, even if this property might be common.

_Spießig _is a strange concept, mostly used to express negative thoughts about people that behave properly and a bit too middle-class. I don't like the concept, because it is mostly the social distance of often even envy that makes someone say something like that. Often it's just a malicious term of those who feel excluded from the middle-class establishment.

There is an legendary TV advertisment spot with the punch line "I would like to be a Spießer, too" said by a child. <MOD: allowed to post the link?>


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## elroy

“prim and proper” is not only or even primarily about neatness.
prim and proper - Google-Suche


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> “prim and proper” is not only or even primarily about neatness.


Yeah right, that what I imagined. I know prim and proper. This is not spießig in general. Some of the old-fashioned styles might be considered (partly jokingly) to "ein spießiger Look" though. But not the more tidy, neat, prim dresses, only the old-fashioned, boring ones.


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## sound shift

"Respectable"?

Personally, I use "philistine" a lot.


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## Kajjo

sound shift said:


> Personally, I use "philistine" a lot.



Wikipedia defines:


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> the derogatory term *philistinism* describes the 'manners, habits and character' of a person whose anti-intellectual social attitude undervalues and despises art and beauty, spirituality and intellect.[1] A *philistine* person is a man or a woman of smugly narrow mind, and of conventional morality whose materialistic views and tastes indicate a lack of and an indifference to cultural and æsthetic values


This does not fit to Spießer, only "smugly narrow mind, and of conventional morality" fits quite well.


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## sound shift

The word "spießig" is sometimes applied to things too.
I think "stuffy" can apply to people and things alike.


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## Kajjo

sound shift said:


> I think "stuffy" can apply to people and things alike.


I have no good feeling for "stuffy", sorry, but it might be related.


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## elroy

I like “stuffy”!


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## Schlabberlatz

"stuffy petty bourgeois"?


> Wörterbuch v1 Englisch-Deutsch © WordReference.com 2012:
> *spießig* umg pej
> 
> I adj → spießbürgerlich;
> spießige Klamotten unstylish (Br gespr auch naff) middle-class gear sg;
> eine spießige Kleinstadt a stuffy petty bourgeois small town
> II adv gekleidet, eingerichtet: in stuffily conventional petty bourgeois style
> spießig - Wörterbuch Deutsch-Englisch - WordReference.com


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## Schlabberlatz

Kajjo said:


> There is an legendary TV advertisment spot with the punch line "I would like to be a Spießer, too" said by a child. <MOD: allowed to post the link?>


Yes, I remember that one:


Schlabberlatz said:


> Yes, some call them "Spießer". There was a TV commercial by a building society which featured this. If you don't mind watching commercials, you can google it: "Papa, wenn ich groß bin, will ich auch mal Spießer werden". (A link cannot be posted here because it is a commercial.)


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## sound shift

Schlabberlatz said:


> "Papa, wenn ich groß bin, will ich auch mal Spießer werden".


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## Kajjo

If someone wants a link to the TV spot, send me a PM.


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## Oceanboy

PM for Kajjo!


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