# All dialects: sh ش (negation)



## TheFriendlyArab

Users of the world wide web! You know how in dialects one may find a ش at the end of a verb to negate it? Are there situations when vowels would be added at the end (possibly to denote gender and/or number)? For instance, when talking to one female would one say شي or شو for more than one person?


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## إسكندراني

I think they are arbitrary and optional.


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## Masjeen

> Are there situations when vowels would be added at the end (possibly to denote  and/or number)?


مادري إذا فهمت صح والا لا لكن بالكويت نستخدم حرف تش للتمييز بين الجنس
in kuwat we add "ch" the end of a noun to denote  gender
your home (F) = beitech
your home (M) = beitek


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## إسكندراني

يقصد الشين اللي نستعملها في المصري مثلاً لما نقول «ماعملش حاجة»ـ


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## Aloulu

In Tunisian dialect there is not a difference in using "sh" (in the negation) between masculine and feminine words.
We would say:
"Ma 3indosh" (he does not have) 
"Ma 3indesh" (she does not have)

The "3" corresponds to the letter "ayn" in Arabic. 
According to my knowledge this is the same in all _maghrebi_ dialects by the way.


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## Finland

Hello!


Aloulu said:


> In Tunisian dialect there is not a difference in using "sh" (in the negation) between masculine and feminine words.
> We would say:
> "Ma 3indosh" (he does not have)
> "Ma 3indesh" (she does not have)
> 
> The "3" corresponds to the letter "ayn" in Arabic.
> According to my knowledge this is the same in all _maghrebi_ dialects by the way.



Indeed. However, as a variant of -sh, one does hear -shi quite often as well (for example in Algeria), but this is just normal, as the -sh ending stems from the word شيء anyway. This -shi of course has nothing to with gender or number, I just wanted to point out this little thing.

HTH
S


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## إسكندراني

We use it in Egypt too.


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## Arabus

Finlands post is correct.

The negation formula _maa ... sh(i_) seems to be of ancient Yemeni origin, given its modern distribution.

In Palestine, this is reduced to just a terminal _-sh_. You don't need to say _maa _before the negated phrase (e.g. _ba3rafesh_ = I don't know). In southern Lebanon, the initial _maa _is reduced to _a-_ (e.g. _aba3refesh _= I don't know). In the Syrian coastal region, the terminal _-sh_ disappears and only an initial _a-_ remains (e.g. _aba3ref _= I don't know). In Damascus and Aleppo, there is only an initial _maa _(e.g. _maa ba3ref_ = I don't know).


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## إسكندراني

In North African there is no penultimate vowel; it is just maba3rafsh or maba3rafshi in Egyptian for example. Unless it's there anyway (mabye3rafoush/mabye3rafoushi)


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## Arabus

This vowel is the same anaptyxic vowel that is added in _wa2et _from _wa2t _and _benet _from _bent _etc. It is a general phenomenon.

In Egypt people often remove the initial _b-_ from the imperfective (e.g. _ma-__3rafshi)_.


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## إسكندراني

They mean different things actually - I think it's been discussed in a '-sh' thread before..


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## Hemza

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hello everyone,

I noticed in some Arab countries, in areas where the 'ش' is used to negate (i.e ما نعرفش) some people would pronounce it 'شي'. I noticed it on one Egyptian friend (among the numerous Egyptian students in my university) who, for example, says 'ما ينفعشي' instead of 'ما ينفعش' as all the other Egyptians I know, would say (my friend is from منطقة الغربية, not far from Alexandria if I'm not wrong while the others are all from Alexandria or Cairo.).

This feature is also found in the Nort West of Morocco (and in my parents' origin city, فأس) in which we would say 'ما نعملشي' instead of 'ما نعملش' although I noticed it's becoming old fashioned in my city among the young generation (unlike the North West of Morocco I think).

Does such feature exist somewhere else? The rest of North Africa? Palestine? Yemen may be?

Thank you all.


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## analeeh

As far as I'm aware, this _-shi_ is used as a variant of _-sh_ by a lot of Egyptian speakers from Alexandria and maybe from other places too, especially (?) if the consonant cluster left at the end of the word would otherwise be a bit messy. As far as I can think the Lebanese speakers I've encountered with this feature only say _-sh_ but I might be wrong.


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## elroy

It's used in Palestinian Arabic occasionally.  

But I think the original poster's thread was about something else.  I think they were asking whether the feminine morpheme _i_ or the plural morpheme _u_ could be added after the negative _sh._

For Palestinian, the answer is no.  The feminine/plural morphemes come _before_ the _sh_. 

btil3ab(e)sh - you (m.) don't play
btil3abīsh - you (f.) don't play
btil3abūsh - you (pl.) don't play


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## Hemza

Thanks for your replies (sorry @analeeh for the looong delay of my reply  ).


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## Sprachenlerner

Are my ears playing tricks on me or am I hearing the "-shi" negating here?
Is the "-shi" negation also present in Lebanaon?
[Youtube title:Nancy Ajram - El Donia Helwa (Live performace) نانسي عجرم - الدنيا حلوة] (skip to 1:34)


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## analeeh

No, it's just that Nancy Ajram often sings in Egyptian dialect. -_sh_ and I think _-shi_ are present in Lebanese but they're regional features.


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## Sprachenlerner

Thanks for clearing that up, I didn't get why I heard her pronouncing hard G's.


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