# Short adjectives



## Mikazo654

How does one form personal adjectives in Russian?  Do you simply lop the ending off, as in "Я стар" or "Я устал"?  If so, how do you handle adjectives that end with ный?

Thanks in advance.


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## Sobakus

I'd rather call the long form "personal" as it has the personal pronouns' endings. They are usually called long vs. short or pronominal vs. simple. Yes, generally you cut the ending off, and if the result has a consonant cluster at the end(which sounds horrible in Russian because there's a so called tendency of rising sonority) you generally stick some vowel in that cluster. That happens with ный as well: странный - странен, грозный - грозен, ловкий - ловок. There are a number of exception that do not have the short forms.


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## estreets

What do you mean by 'personal adjectives'?
As far as I can understand adjectives can be relative, qualitative, possessive; comparative, superlative etc., or long or short form.


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## bibax

Mikazo means short vs. long aka indefinite vs. definite aka simple vs. complex forms. The short forms are also known as nominal (not personal), because they are declined like nouns.


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## Orlin

bibax said:


> Mikazo means short vs. long aka indefinite vs. definite aka simple vs. complex forms. The short forms are also known as nominal (not personal), because they are declined like nouns.


 
As far as I know, short forms don't decline in modern Russian because they're used only predicatively (and in most cases but not always short forms are preferred as predicatives). There are some cases in which both short and long forms can be used predicatively, but the meaning is different. There are many adjectives that don't form short forms at all (I think there's a rule that adjectives that don't form degrees of comparison don't have short forms either) and a very small group of predicatively-only (and short-form-only) adjectives exist - I can remember only 3 examples: рад, должен and прав.


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## dec-sev

Orlin said:


> As far as I know, short forms don't decline in modern Russian because they're used only predicatively...


Well, they do:
Я прав / умён
Ты прав
Он прав
Она права / умна
Мы правы / умны
Вы правы
Они правы
Or do you mean something esle?


Mikazo654 said:


> or "Я устал"?


 _устал_ is a verb.


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## bibax

> As far as I know, short forms don't decline in modern Russian because they're used only predicatively (and in most cases but not always short forms are preferred as predicatives).


Same in Czech, but the short forms still have accusative (e.g. Viděl jsem ji _unaven*u*_. = ... eë _устал*у*_).

And what about the possessive adjectives like Petrov, Petrova, Petrovo? In Czech they are fully declinable like nouns (gospodin, ryba, selo).


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## Orlin

dec-sev said:


> Well, they do:
> Я прав / умён
> Ты прав
> Он прав
> Она права / умна
> Мы правы / умны
> Вы правы
> Они правы
> Or do you mean something esle?


 
I meant that they change only by gender and number but don't have cases (changing by grammatical cases is what always comes to my mind when I hear "declension").


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## dec-sev

Orlin said:


> I meant that they change only by gender and number but don't have cases (changing by grammatical cases is what always comes to my mind when I hear "declension").


You're right :
*склонение *
1. Изменение имен, местоимений и причастий по падежам (в лингвистике) (Lingvo)



bibax said:


> And what about the possessive adjectives like Petrov, Petrova, Petrovo? In Czech they are fully declinable like nouns (gospodin, ryba, selo).


_Его фамилия Петров.
Я поздравил Петрова с днём рождения. 
 Это машина Петров*а*
Дай эту книгу Петрову._ и т.д.

_Её фамилия Петрова.
Я поздравил Петрову с днём рождения.
_ Эта машина Петров*ой*.
Is that what you've asked?


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## Orlin

bibax said:


> And what about the possessive adjectives like Petrov, Petrova, Petrovo? In Czech they are fully declinable like nouns (gospodin, ryba, selo).


 
I'm sure that they're declinable in Russian but the pattern is something like a mix between "like nouns" and "like the other adjectives" - dec-sev has posted some examples above. However, I don't think that this is on topic here because most likely the question refers to other "short" adjectives.


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## estreets

bibax said:


> Mikazo means short vs. long aka indefinite vs. definite aka simple vs. complex forms. The short forms are also known as nominal (not personal), because they are declined like nouns.


Or probably adjectives used as predicatives.
So what to explain?


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## Mikazo654

My grammatical terminology may be a little off, but the responses are on the right track.  So why do we say я прав, я стар, etc, but я голодный is okay?  Why not lop the ending off of that one?



dec-sev said:


> Well, they do:
> Я прав / умён
> Ты прав
> Он прав
> Она права / умна
> Мы правы / умны
> Вы правы
> Они правы
> Or do you mean something esle?
> _устал_ is a verb.


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## estreets

Mikazo654 said:


> My grammatical terminology may be a little off, but the responses are on the right track. So why do we say я прав, я стар, etc, but я голодный is okay? Why not lop the ending off of that one?


No problem, you can say Я голоден. both are correct.


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## Mikazo654

Is it also okay to say я старый/старая, я молодой/молодая, and so on?



estreets said:


> No problem, you can say Я голоден. both are correct.


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## estreets

Well, in general it's quite OK. 
But in such short phrases their short form is preferable. (стар, молод...)
Just one more 'But'. If in the phrase there are other words related to the adjective (for example, такой, hum... some others) you should use the full form.
For example: Я такой старый! (And Я так стар!).


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## Mikazo654

Ok, thanks for the input. 

Now let me throw another one at you.  Say I want to say "he is angry."  My dictionary gives me сердитый for "angry," so is it okay to say он сердит(ый)?  Or is it preferable to say он сердится, like my instructional book says?  How are you even supposed to know which to use?



estreets said:


> Well, in general it's quite OK.
> But in such short phrases their short form is preferable. (стар, молод...)
> Just one more 'But'. If in the phrase there are other words related to the adjective (for example, такой, hum... some others) you should use the full form.
> For example: Я такой старый! (And Я так стар!).


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## estreets

Frankly speaking as to me I see no difference between these two variants. Well, personally I would say он сердится most probably because I always say this (and in other cases. for example: почему ты сердишься? Они вечно сердятся не по делу. Если мы так сделаем, начальник точно рассердится). Maybe do I prefer this verb due to its flexibilty? 
But if someone says он сердит (сердитый see above) I feel it's OK, not awkward, weird or unusual.
(well, the same thing with another translation of this word злой (зол/зла/злы - злиться/злюсь/злишься etc.)


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## Angelo di fuoco

Mikazo654 said:


> My grammatical terminology may be a little off, but the responses are on the right track.  So why do we say я прав, я стар, etc, but я голодный is okay?  Why not lop the ending off of that one?



"Голоден" is not only correct, but also preferable in this case.
"Голодный" to me means that it is an inherent quality: always hungry.


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## Sobakus

The short adjectives are usually preferred in predicate position (after the verb to be, even if it's omitted in Russian): он (есть) стар, but in attributive position you always use the long ones: старый гуляка приехал в гости. Using the long adjective in the predicate position sounds quite awkward to me at times, but such use isn't strictly considered incorrect: Он был очень голодный, но пересилил себя и не зашёл в МакДональдсp). And I agree with *Angelo di fuoco* about the long form often meaning an inherent quality.


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## Orlin

sobakus said:


> the short adjectives are usually preferred in predicate position (after the verb to be, even if it's omitted in russian): он (есть) стар, but in attributive position you always use the long ones: старый гуляка приехал в гости. Using the long adjective in the predicate position sounds quite awkward to me at times, but such use isn't strictly considered incorrect: Он был очень голодный, но пересилил себя и не зашёл в МакДональдсp). And i agree with angelo di fuoco about the long form often meaning an inherent quality.


 
Я согласен, только у многих прилагательных вовсе нет кратких форм и поэтому надо употреблять полные (я думаю, что кратких форм нет у прилагательных, не образующих степеней сравнения - так ли это?).


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## estreets

to Orlin
I think this is true because as far as I can see only qualitative adjectives can have short forms - and only qualitative adjectives can have degrees of comparison.


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## Angelo di fuoco

Sobakus said:


> Using the long adjective in the predicate position sounds quite awkward to me at times, but such use isn't strictly considered incorrect: Он был очень голодный, но пересилил себя и не зашёл в МакДональдсp). And I agree with *Angelo di fuoco* about the long form often meaning an inherent quality.



Just as you say it: "Он был очень голодный" sounds just awkward.
However, you can hear it in sloppy colloquial speech.


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## Mikazo654

Weird!  "Я очень голодный" appears in one of my instructional programs.



Angelo di fuoco said:


> Just as you say it: "Он был очень голодный" sounds just awkward.
> However, you can hear it in sloppy colloquial speech.


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## dec-sev

What? Contradicting answers? Welcome to the Russian Forum  You seem to have learned to ask specific questons, now try to cull out right answers


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## Angelo di fuoco

Mikazo654 said:


> Weird!  "Я очень голодный" appears in one of my instructional programs.



You can hear that even from native speakers (modern Russian education doesn't care very much for beautiful Russian language), but it is very colloquial and even in colloquial speech it doesn't sounds well.
Mind well that this is a classical case for a predicative (short) form of the adjective: "я очень голоден".


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