# Egyptian Arabic: [قلبي طمران [أنا ذقته مرار



## gbasfora

Hi,

I would like to know what means *طمران* . searching in dictionaries I found out that طمر means to burry,to flood, to overhelm,to jump,to conceal , to fill up/in etc. But none of them don't bring meaning to* طمران .

Context :*

* 
 قلبك طمران 

 حبك على قلبي امر 

 اشتاق بروحي اغامر*

Thanks

Google translator translated *قلبك طمران* into Your heart is turbulent. But if you try to translate other phrases such as *انت طمران ، روحك طمران* it doesn't translate *  طمران*


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## gbasfora

I think that the word (*طمران* ) is a typo. I guess that the correct word should be *تُمران* .
Searching in the Dictionary * Arabe - Español  of F. Corriente* I found out  the following words :
*
  -تَمَر  : Ripe and dried date 
  - تَمَرات / تُمور / تُمران : Plurals.
*
what do you think of that?*
*


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## elroy

In a word, no.


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## barkoosh

Hi
طمران is not a Lebanese word. I've been repeating that part of the song many times to understand what she's saying, but unfortunately, it's not clear. Besides, she doesn't seem to say قلبي before this mysterious طمران.


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## elroy

I just listened to the song.  It’s not sung in Lebanese, so what made you think this was a Lebanese word, gbasfora?


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## gbasfora

barkoosh said:


> Hi
> طمران is not a Lebanese word. I've been repeating that part of the song many times to understand what she's saying, but unfortunately, it's not clear. Besides, she doesn't seem to say قلبي before this mysterious طمران.



I agree with you . All "*ق*" are pronounced "G" except that one in the verse *قلبك طمران . *It seems she says albi but in the following verse she says galbi. I searched in several sites and videos trying to find other versions of the lyrics but without success. All of them bring the same expression : *قلبك طمران*


elroy said:


> I just listened to the song.  It’s not sung in Lebanese, so what made you think this was a Lebanese word, gbasfora?



Just because they are lebanese. Reeda and her sister Nina Boutros were born in Lebanon. Reeda and  Nina were the first female pop duo in the Arab world. The duo was active for a few years in the mid 1990s. Both sisters are now married and live in the United States.


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## elroy

Many Arab singers sing in dialects other than their own!


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## gbasfora

elroy said:


> Many Arab singers sing in dialects other than their own!



This is true.But then, in what dialect, do you suppose they are singing ?


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## Mahaodeh

I can not recognise the dialect.

On the one hand, it seems from the Levant, but that might just be because the girls are Lebanese and that might affect the dialect. On the other, it has some unusual influences. The way they pronounce words is also unusual to say the least. To tell you the truth, I have a feeling that this might not be a specific dialect at all, it might simply be a hybridisation of more than one dialect with confusing accents!

As for the word in question, I listened several times and to me it sounded like: ألقاك تُمرَن; the first word the qaaf is pronounced somewhere between a hamza and a g. the second word, I can't even start to guess what it might be but I definitely hear a تاء sound not a طاء. I understand that some (especially women like the two singers) might pronounce the Taa' less emphatic than they should, but even then I could easily distinguish it from a taa'. 

My guess is, whatever dialect(s) they are unsuccessfully trying to imitate or merge, they probably just pronounced the word so wrong I don't think anyone can recognise it.


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## gbasfora

Thank very much guys  for your  efforts. In my last try I found out in Wiktionary:
"* تَمْرُنُ* • (tamrunu) (_form I_) - second-person masculine singular non-past active indicative of _*مَرَنَ*‎_ (marana). Does it make sense for you ?


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## Mahaodeh

gbasfora said:


> of _*مَرَنَ*‎_ (marana). Does it make sense for you


No, it does not make sense, and I did consider this option but discarded it because it doesn't make sense. 
I also considered تَمُرَّنّ, which is pronounced is some dialects (Iraqi, Badawi, and most Gulf dialects) as tmurrann meaning "to come by" (she would have mispronounced it a little) but it still didn't seem to work well with the context even though it makes a more sense than marana. Of course, we still need to establish that they are in fact singing in a Gulf or Badawi dialect.


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## elroy

gbasfora said:


> in what dialect, do you suppose they are singing ?


 To me it sounds Egyptian, but with [g] for /q/.  Maybe that’s found in some regions of Egypt? (@cherine?)  I doubt it’s a hybrid; that would be bizarre.  In any case, it’s definitely not Levantine.

I guess the big question is: is طمران a word in Egyptian?

I think we have to assume the actual lyrics are قلبك طمران since that’s what all the written lyrics online say.

By the way, gbasfora, I note with interest that in this thread about the same song, you identified the dialect as Egyptian.


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## cherine

elroy said:


> To me it sounds Egyptian, but with [g] for /q/.  Maybe that’s found in some regions of Egypt? (@cherine?)


Yes, in Upper Egypt الصعيد, the qaaf is pronounced g.
I don't know what song you guys are talking about, so I can't comment. I prefer having full context and information in the first post to make it easy for everyone to understand what we're talking about. Unfortunately, this is seldom the case with gbasfora


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## elroy

The song is آموري by نينا وريدا بطرس.


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## cherine

Thanks, Elroy.
I listned to the song, it sounds Egyptian with the ق pronounced as g (which is not common when the rest of the words sound Cairene), and I don't think they say قلبك طمران though I failed to identify whay they're saying.
Sorry.


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## elroy

cherine said:


> it sounds Egyptian with the ق pronounced as g (which is not common when the rest of the words sound Cairene)


 I also just realized they also pronounce ج as “j.”  This is also a feature of Saidi Arabic, right?


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## cherine

Yes. As you and Maha said, they could be mixing dialects or it's their dialect that is influencing their attempt at singing in Egyptian.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> I also just realized they also pronounce ج as “j.” This is also a feature of Saidi Arabic, right?


This and a few other things. If you listen carefully, you will find that they have a Levantine accent (maybe Jordanian or Palestinian) with clear lower Egyptian influence making the dialect close (but not identical) to the dialects in Ghazza or Al Areesh. You also hear some other unclear influences that made me think either Badawi or maybe something from the northern parts of Saudi Arabia as it's definitely not Riyadh nor Jedda (the two most known dialects).


cherine said:


> Yes. As you and Maha said, they could be mixing dialects or it's their dialect that is influencing their attempt at singing in Egyptian.


Or, their local dialect and their knowledge of Egyptian is influencing their attempt in singing in Saudi or some similar dialect. 
Or, it might be some attempt from the writer to write in the so-called 'white dialect' (supposedly, a fusion of dialects that is readily understood by speakers of any Arabic dialect).
It's really not clear.


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## elroy

To complicate matters, the songwriter, صفوح شغالة, is Syrian. 

Maybe gbasfora should just contact him and ask.


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## gbasfora

You Said it !! you are a smart guy ! Just send his E-mail and I'll solve this as easy as pie **

*searching the net :*

 أسمعتنا صوتك فأرنا صورتك، فإن وفد الله ووفد رسول الله يَةِ، ورفد عُمر بن الخطاب، فالقلق الجبل عن هامة كالرحى، أيضر الرأس واللحية، عليه *طمران* من صوف،" فقال : السلام .. 
 
بما فارتاع من صوت كلاي فبات له طوّغ الشوايت من كوني وين ضروه ما قبثهن عليه واستمرّ به ضئيغ الكعوب بربات من الحريء ما فهاب *طمران* منم حيث يوزئة طغن المعارك عند 

العباس البردعى قال حدثنى أحمد بن الحسن المقنعى قال أبي : كنت ببغداد وأنا فى بستان الصديق لى – وأنا وحدى فاذا بشيخ وشاب وعليهما *طمران* من شعر فسلمت عليهما

لها *طمران* من خزف وقار وتاج صاغه الحاني عليها ... فكان خمارها ترك الخمار بزلناها وستر الليل مرخى ... فكان ضياؤها ضوء النهار سلالة كرمة خلصت ودن ... كما خلص الهلال من الدراري


cherine said:


> Unfortunately, this is seldom the case with gbasfora


Sorry. 

 قلبك طمران  ​ 
 حبك على قلبي امر ​ 
 اشتاق بروحي اغامر ​ 
 بالليل الليل الليل الليل ​ 
 لو حارقة نار​


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## elroy

You can try to contact him on Twitter, Facebook, or YouTube.  There's also a Facebook group for his fans.

Good luck!


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## Mahaodeh

gbasfora said:


> بما فارتاع من صوت كلاي فبات له طوّغ الشوايت من كوني وين ضروه ما قبثهن عليه واستمرّ به ضئيغ الكعوب بربات من الحريء ما فهاب *طمران* منم حيث يوزئة طغن المعارك عند


I was going to say that I did not recognise the dialect, then I decided to check it out first and found that you have a lot of misspellings (the type of text you copied from was probably incorrectly recognised by your browser).

It's part of معلقة النابغة الذبياني that is known by it's first few words: يا دار ميّة. The word is actually not طمران it is ضُمْرَان, the plural of ضامر by which he means "slim/slender horses". Irrelevant to this subject.


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## gbasfora

*"the type of text you copied from was probably incorrectly recognised by your browser."
*
Hi Mahaodeh.

I have never had any problems with my browser before.

searching once more the net I found two versions to the text above :

Under the first is written : *كلاي*  and *طمران* (that one posted by me)

Under the second is written *كلّابٍ* and *ضُمرانُ* instead of *كلاي* and طمران


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## Mahaodeh

I think it was because it's from a page in Google Books. This means that the browser is actually not very bad at recognising scanned text!

With regards to the subject matter, I found out what the mysterious phrase is! I went on YouTube and posted a question asking what was being said in that minute, and the answer was: أنا ذقته مرار, when I listened again I was surprised how I missed it the first time . I think it might be a combination of things, not least is that there is only one recording of the song on the internet, and they all have the same bad sound.


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## gbasfora

Congartulations Mahaodeh , I finally ended the translation of that lyrics. Many thanks to everyone who helped to solve this mess. I listened the song a few minutes ago and it's very clear that they say *أنا ذقته مرار* ( I've tasted the bitterness ( ? ) ). It really is unbelievable.

But there are two questions that will remain a mystery to me :

Why was written *قلبك طمران *?
What does mean *طمران ?*
Thanks again* *


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## elroy

gbasfora said:


> Why was written *قلبك طمران *?


 Obviously that's what whoever did the transcription heard.  These types of mistakes happen all the time, even when it's your native language.


gbasfora said:


> What does mean *طمران ?*


 I think the jury's still out on that one!


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