# Norwegian: ringer du?



## eva nicolae

Two acquaintances speak on the phone after not seeing each other for a long time.

_– Linda? sa hun.
– Å, hei, det er Karl Ove Knausgård som ringer, sa jeg.
– Hei! sa hun. – Ringer du?
– Ja, jeg er i Stockholm._

What is the meaning of "ringer du?" here?


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## Ben Jamin

eva nicolae said:


> Two acquaintances speak on the phone after not seeing each other for a long time.
> 
> _– Linda? sa hun.
> – Å, hei, det er Karl Ove Knausgård som ringer, sa jeg.
> – Hei! sa hun. – Ringer du?
> – Ja, jeg er i Stockholm._
> 
> What is the meaning of "ringer du?" here?


It is difficult to guess the meaning without more context, but with only the context that is available I would think that she is surprised that he has called her, she did not expect it.


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## eva nicolae

Thank you, Ben Jamin, I realize that, but it's the policy of the forum, as I understand, not to reproduce too much text. She asks afterwards if he is in Stockholm on holiday, he says well, he might stay here for a while, they exchange a few more words and then he invites her to a cafe. However, here it is essential to see the dialogue itself played out in order to understand the nuances and possible hints. The idea is that I cannot figure out logically why she would ask "are you calling?" after he said who was calling. So I suspect this is not really the question "are you calling?", but something slightly different, like maybe: "Is it really you?" (He's Norwegian, she's Swedish, they met some time ago in Bishops-Arno where he fell in love with her and was rejected, after which he cut his face - sorry, it's a very coarse way of abbreviating some tens of pages in Knausgaard's _Min kamp _- so there is some discomfort between them, but also some kind of attraction). As usual, different translations render this differently: "Hello!", "How nice that you called!" "Are you calling me?" "Did you call?", but I felt none of them worked.


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## bicontinental

> The idea is that I cannot figure out logically why she would ask "are you calling?" after he said who was calling.



I agree with Ben Jamin’s interpretation. She’s expecting Linda to call and instead it’s Karl Ove, so presumably she’s surprised. That’s really all we know.

You quote four different translations:

*"Hello!"* Well, that would be a minimalist approach to answering the phone. I don’t think it’s enough here to express the element of surprise, though.

*"How nice that you called!"* That’s probably reading too much into it. Is she really pleasantly surprised and happy that he called? Grammatically speaking, the simple past tense would be more appropriately used towards the end of their conversation, '_It was nice that you called, [goodbye]!'. _

*"Are you calling me?"* That might work in the right context. Are _you _calling _me_ [after what happened??]

*"Did you call?"* If he had left a message and she was returning his call, she might start off with a, “Did you call me?” or “I understand you called me?” It doesn't make sense in this context.

I like your own suggestion above,

_'Karl, is that really you?' _I think it expresses surprise without telling us whether she’s happy or disappointed to hear his voice.

bic.


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## DerFrosch

bicontinental said:


> She’s expecting Linda to call and instead it’s Karl Ove, so presumably she’s surprised.



I actually think you misunderstood the situation. I'm pretty sure it's Linda herself who says _Linda?, _i.e. she's saying her own name when answering the phone as we often do when we don't know who's at the other end.


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## bicontinental

Hi DerFrosch,


eva nicolae said:


> – Linda*?* sa hun.


I thought about that at first but decided against it because of the question mark. There shouldn't be any doubt (on her part) as to who's answering the phone?
bic.


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## raumar

I read this the same way as DerFrosch. Knausgård's present wife is called Linda. If this is the same woman, she is just answering the phone by saying her own name. Maybe Eva could clarify this question. 

The literal translation of "Ringer du?" is "Are you calling?". Of course, this does not make any sense if it is taken too literally. The question is how much meaning a translation should put into this phrase. I agree with Ben Jamin that there is an element of surprise here. But it may also, partly, be just an empty phrase to start the conversation. The meaning behind those words may be something like: "So, you are calling me. Why are you calling - what's the occasion?" (Of course, this does not work as a translation).


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## DerFrosch

raumar said:


> Knausgård's present wife is called Linda.


Right, that's what I was thinking too. As for the question mark, I don't think it's uncommon with a rising (=questioning) tone when saying your name like that (maybe we do it especially often in Sweden?). What you're really saying is "This is Linda, who am I speaking to?".


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## bicontinental

raumar said:


> Knausgård's present wife is called Linda


In that case I'm sure your interpretation is correct. (I do, however, find the question mark somewhat misleading. When you answer the phone by identifying yourself to the caller, your name is a statement and not a question in my opinion: raumar./! vs. raumar? (At least in AmE and Danish)

bic.


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## raumar

DerFrosch said:


> I don't think it's uncommon with a rising (=questioning) tone when saying your name like that (maybe we do it especially often in Sweden?)



I think this is the case in Norwegian as well - even though it isn't really logical. Maybe it has something to do with the Swedish and Norwegian intonation?


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## pellefygert

Personally, I find this dialogue a bit odd.
Even if it is customary for swedes and norwegians to use a rising tone, it seems strange to use the question mark. It is not normal to use a question mark to signify intonation. It usually signifies that it is a question, and in this instance the question doesn't make sense.
And then, after he has identified himself by saying it is him that is calling, she asks: Are you calling? Well of course, he is on the phone, isn't he? And he just said so!

As a translator myself, I always try to make sense of what I am translating. Sometimes perhaps too much.


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## eva nicolae

Linda is answering the phone. I was surprised too by the question mark at the end, but I got used to languages having curious intonations. Bicontinental, I'm sure you know the rising - interrogatory - intonation Americans use a lot for sentences that to me seem perfectly affirmative, mostly when narrating, probably as a kind of nod to the listener (something like "you know?" or "do you remember?"). I can refer you, for example, to Donna Tartt's _The Goldfinch_, which very accurately reflects this in writing. For example: 

_I must have told you, how I went for piano lessons, at the old Armenian lady’s? There was a green lizard that lived in the palm tree, green like a candy drop, I loved to watch for him…
_
or 

_Anyway, wife of Mick that ran the bar, Judy her name was? _[this is certainly not a question]_ All I did, every day, was watch soaps with Judy and stay behind the bar with her at night while my dad and his crew from the mine got thrashed_.

So I allowed Norwegian this little peculiarity.


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## pellefygert

You know what? I probably would have translated it like this:

- Hello, this is Linda, she said
- Oh, hello, this is KOK calling, I said.
- Oh, Hi, she said. - Is that you?
- Yes, I'm in Stockholm.

I know, "are you calling" and "Is that you" is not the same. But at least "is that you" is an almost equally meaningless question, but one that seems more natural in the situation. An I would of course try to avoid using "she said/he said" three times in a row like I just did.


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## eva nicolae

But, by the way, I would never translate it into my language with the question mark at the end.


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## eva nicolae

Right, pellefygert. Thank you everyone!


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## DerFrosch

pellefygert said:


> Personally, I find this dialogue a bit odd. [...] And then, after he has identified himself by saying it is him that is calling, she asks: Are you calling? Well of course, he is on the phone, isn't he? And he just said so!


I probably wouldn't have used the question mark either, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And I don't know why you consider "_Ringer du?_" to be "odd". No, of course she doesn't actually want to know whether he's calling or not. But that doesn't make it odd. It still has a purpose: It's said just to say something, to get the conversation going, like raumar said. So it's not any more odd than asking "How are you?" when you're actually not interested in the answer. You could even call it a clever way of not betraying your feeling towards the person at the other end. I must say this piece of dialogue is quite realistic.

As for the translation, maybe "_Is that you?_" is as good as it gets. I think, nevertheless, that another possibility could actually be "_That's a surprise_." (as a statement, not an exclamation). I guess the only problem is that it's just a bit too expressive. Still, I could imagine it being used in a situation like this.


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## pellefygert

DerFrosch said:


> I probably wouldn't have used the question mark either, but I don't think there's anything wrong with it. And I don't know why you consider "_Ringer du?_" to be "odd". No, of course she doesn't actually want to know whether he's calling or not. But that doesn't makes it odd. It still has a purpose: it's said just to say something, to get the conversation going, like raumar said. So it's not any more odd than asking "How are you?" when you're actually not interested in the answer. You could even call it a clever way of not betraying your feeling towards the person at the other end. I must say this piece of dialogue is quite realistic.



Hm. I'll just have to disagree with this. In my experience "Ringer du?" is not something one would say to get the conversation going *in Norwegian*. Now, Linda is Swedish, isn't she? Maybe that's the explanation. I don't know.

In Norwegian one could say "Er det du som ringer?" "Jaså, er det du som ringer?". That sounds like something a grandparent would say when a grandson/daughter calls on the phone.

IMHO, of course.


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## DerFrosch

Yeah, she's Swedish, which of course is the reason why I'm involved in this discussion - I'm certainly no expert when it comes to Norwegian.

I kind of assumed from the other comments that "_Ringer du?_" is used in the same way in Norwegian, but it seems now that that's not quite the case, which would explain why you found it odd.

From a Swedish perspective, it's not odd. I've definitely heard it being used. The stress (which wouldn't be that strong) would be on _du_, not _ringer_. And you wouldn't use it when talking to, for example, a business acquaintance, only to people who you know pretty well.


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## pellefygert

DerFrosch said:


> Yeah, she's Swedish, which of course is the reason why I'm involved in this discussion - I'm certainly no expert when it comes to Norwegian.
> 
> I kind of assumed from the other comments that "_Ringer du?_" is used in the same way in Norwegian, but it seems now that that's not quite the case, which would explain why you found it odd.
> 
> From a Swedish perspective, it's not odd. I've definitely heard it being used. The stress (which wouldn't be that strong) would be on _du_, not _ringer_. And you wouldn't use it when talking to, for example, a business acquaintance, only to people who you know pretty well.



Well, with the stress on "du", I guess it is not unheard of in Norwegian either. I think the default reading of the question "Ringer du?" would be with the stress on "Ringer".


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## DerFrosch

pellefygert said:


> Well, with the stress on "du", I guess it is not unheard of in Norwegian either.


I'm sure it's not, but I'm still inclined to think there are other nuances when we use it in this context. Not only is the stress not very strong, but the tone tends to go down or remain even rather then go up at the end, which makes the phrase feel more like a statement.

But then again, maybe I'm overanalyzing this...


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## eva nicolae

This overanalyzing is getting very interesting, thank you... It actually helped me find the right translation into my language - it's just come to me now. You know how these things happen, by slow accumulation.

To keep it on, there's actually a slight difference in how (not) "odd" "how are you?" may sound when you're not interested in the answer (you don't esentially know the answer there, and you might be surprised to get a real response) as compared to "is that you?", or whatever you want to translate it, since the question in itself is superfluous here - you know its answer already. It's certainly a sign of surprise here to say it, not a true question, but rather an exclamation and an emotional statement.


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## DerFrosch

eva nicolae said:


> To keep it on, there's actually a slight difference in how (not) "odd" "how are you?" may sound when you're not interested in the answer (you don't esentially know the answer there, and you might be surprised to get a real response) as compared to "is that you?", or whatever you want to translate it, since the question in itself is superfluous here - you know its answer already.


You're right of course, there's an important difference.


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## AutumnOwl

DerFrosch said:


> I think, nevertheless, that another possibility could actually be "_That's a surprise_.





DerFrosch said:


> From a Swedish perspective, it's not odd. I've definitely heard it being used. The stress (which wouldn't be that strong) would be on _du_, not _ringer_.


To me the "Ringer du?" seems like an expression of surprise, and I can even think that I could say it, if an old friend called me after a very long time, and being surprised to hear from them. It's like a shorthand for "I didn't expect your call, how come that you are calling me now after all this time?", especially with the caller's explanation that he's in Stockholm and wants to see her.


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## eva nicolae

I agree. I came to the conclusion the phrase is mostly an expression of surprise. So we come back to where we started and Ben Jamin's opinion.


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