# 21 víctimas en Juan Fernández.



## Vampiro

Siento una pena enorme, me he pasado el día con un nudo en la garganta.
Una nueva tragedia nos ha golpeado, una más, y esta ha calado muy hondo en el alma de todo un país.
Gente muy buena se ha perdido en un accidente aéreo; gente solidaria, que perdió la vida trabajando por ayudar a los demás.
Sólo quería hacer pública mi solidaridad con las familias y las instituciones golpeadas por esta tragedia.
Un reconocimiento muy especial para Felipe Cubillos, de incansable labor por reconstrucción de los pueblos afectado por el terremoto que nos golpeó el año pasado; al personal de la Fuerza Aérea, institución muy cercana a la familia de mi señora; a Felipe Camiroaga, conductor de televisión, un tipo con un corazón de oro, en cuyo programa se me dio tribuna alguna vez cuando me hizo falta; a Roberto Bruce, periodista, a quien tuve la suerte de conocer durante un reportaje, un profesional lleno de vida y simpatía; a las personas del Consejo Nacional de la Cultura, a los integrantes del Desafío Levantemos Chile, al resto del equipo de Televisión Nacional, a las 21 víctimas, gente muy joven, gente valiosa que nos deja un gran vacío.
Espero que al menos el mar nos devuelva todos los cuerpos.
Y que estén donde estén tengan paz.
Sé que esto es algo muy personal, pero necesitaba decirlo.
Mis disculpas.
_


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## ninux

Estaba también el Camiroaga... Me entero ahora por ti.
¡Qué descansen en paz! Me uno al duelo de una nación que tanto ha sufrido en estos últimos años y que aún tiene un espacito especial en mi corazón.
Mi pésame. Voy a rezar por ellos. Saludos


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## bondia

Vampiro said:


> Y que estén donde estén tengan paz.
> *Espero que así sea*
> Sé que esto es algo muy personal, pero necesitaba decirlo.
> Mis disculpas.
> *No te disculpes.*
> _



Desde la distancia, una vez más, un abrazo solidario


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## Calambur

Es muy triste esta noticia, y peor aún para Chile, un país tan golpeado -la dictadura, los terremotos, la angustia por los mineros-.
Nada que decir, salvo, que pase la mala racha.
Un abrazo.


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## Vampiro

Muchas gracias a los tres.
Un abrazo.
_


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## Oldy Nuts

Just in case any non Spanish speaking participant gets in here, this is what Vampiro is talking about:

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/americas/09/03/chile.plane/index.html
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...lane-crashes-in-pacific-ocean-killing-21.html

All the 21 people on board of the plane were flying to that distant island to help in the reconstruction of a town that almost disappeared in last year's earthquake and tsunami. Apart of the fact that Chile had not had a major plane crash for the last two or three decades, this tragedy impacted our country so strongly because two of the people on the plane were well known public figures. The most widely know is undoubtedly Felipe Camiroaga, a very popular TV presenter/ententainer, famous for keeping out of the showbiz life, for his charity, and for his love for animals. The other is Felipe Cubillos, a very successful entrepreneur, a man of the seas and, above all, an untiring _social_ entrepreneur like no other, who even created a foundation to help in the post-eathquake reconstruction; and it was on this foundation's behalf that he was flying to the islands. He was also a much read columnist in newspapers, and his columns rarely left one unmoved.

Sadly, the accident was so violent that it seems unlikely that many bodies will be recovered -only four so far in spite of gigantic efforts. The causes are still being investigated and will probably never be known for certain, the most frequently mentioned being a sudden gush of very strong wind (sudden 40-60 knots rushes are fairly common where the unbelievably small airport sits) that left the plane absolutely without sustentation, which would explain why none of the two extremely skilled and experienced pilots in charge could do anything. Lack of fuel as a cause has been denied by authorities, not to mention that in my opinion -and not only mine- this wouldn't account for such a violent crash.

Thanks very much to all of you who manage to find this thread, and use it to express their sympathy.


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## Ishould haveknown

No suelo pasarme por este subforo y no tenía idea de que hubieras abierto este hilo. Me sumo a las condolencias, aun más cuando veo que un buen amigo mío lo ha sentido tan cerca. Siento que Chile haya sido escenario de otra tragedia.


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## Oldy Nuts

It _is_ a pity that threads such as this are discovered almost completely by chance by participants who happen to come in this forum. And I write again in English because of the very slim possibility that a non native English speaker passes by and is puzzled by this thread.

Unfortunately, it would seem that the chances of finding the bodies of the victims are lower all the time. For one thing, the place of the tragedy is very difficult to search even under optimal conditions. Very steep cliffs, almost nothing that can be called a beach, countless caverns at sea level and below, strong currents. And the present not very favourable weather conditions do not help at all.

And second, pieces of the plane that have been recovered so far point without a doubt to an almost complete disintegration of the aircaft and everything in it. Four bodies were rescued on the same day of the tragedy, but none afterwards. Two days ago they found remains that allowed identifying three further victims, leaving two thirds of the total yet to be accounted for.

Yesterday I saw an interview to three sons of Felipe Cubillos, whom Vampiro and I have already mentioned. It is a tribute to the man that the three were completely calm, stating that they would be glad if their father's body was found, but that it didn't matter much if it wasn't, because their father was in the place he most loved after his home: the sea. One of his daughters even mentioned one of his most remembered phrases in these days: that if reincarnation existed, after his death he would like to become an albatross, and keep on flying over Cape Horn/Cabo de Hornos to watch all of those people that constantly fulfill their impossible dreams of going round it in impossibly small boats. (As an important aside: Felipe Cubillos was a very skilled and experienced seafarer himself, always repeating that one should always try to pursue one's own dreams to the end and beyond, even if one never reached them. And, as he himself explained, he chose the albatross because it's such a huge and heavy bird that it looks impossible that it will ever manage to fly; but when it does get up there, it's a pleasure watching its flight).

This tragedy is still the main news in all the Chilean media.


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## Vampiro

Gracias, Elena por tu saludo, y gracias a Oldy por la traducción y los updates.
La verdad es que abrí este hilo con la sola idea de rendir un pequeño y público homenaje (no participo en redes sociales de ningún tipo) a gente de esa que yo considero imprescindible, la que realmente hace cosas por los demás y sin pregonarlo a los cuatro vientos, alejada de shows mediáticos y sin preocuparse de cuántos puntos suben o bajan en las encuestas.
Algunos trabajaban en los medios de comunicación, eran personas más “públicas” que el resto, pero igual de silenciosa era su labor cuando de solidaridad se trataba.
Para colmo gente muy joven, con niños pequeños la mayoría.
Errores humanos, responsabilidades, seguro que las hubo y quizá hasta pague alguien por ello, pero a mi en lo personal de bien poco me sirve, nada devolverá esas vidas, y a esta altura hasta parece muy difícil que se puedan recuperar los cuerpos.
La isla Robinson Crusoe, el Archipiélago Juan Fernández en general, es de mares profundos y costas muy abruptas, de fuertes corrientes marinas y vientos permanentes, lugar bello donde los haya.
Dicen que una de las chicas escribió en su Facebook antes de partir: “Estoy feliz, me voy de vacaciones al paraíso”.
Seguramente está allá, junto a todo el resto.  Si existe un paraíso todos lo merecen.
Saludos.
_


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## Oldy Nuts

Just to add a little to what Vampiro has just said. All the people in the mission were unselfishly and devotedly dedicated to the noble cause of reconstruction. Their political tendencies, their ages, their religious beliefs or disbeliefs, the level of their formal education, are all things that were forgotten when the plane crashed. Felipe Camiroaga is of course very much missed by all those very many who followed his daily morning TV program, but he is mostly and very justly remembered for his kindness with people, specially people in need. Similarly, the wealth of Felipe Cubillos is something nobody cares about now; everyone remembers him as the founder of the corporation he created for helping in the reconstruction of this country, of which he was _the_ driving engine until the plane crashed. And one could continue with 19 further similar cases.

As Vampiro says, all 21 of them certanly deserve a place in paradise, if it exists. If it does not, may they be wherever they always wanted to be. Cubillos, as an albatross eternally flying over our Cape Horn/Cabo de Hornos, encouraging those who dare sailing through those very dangerous waters just for the sake of it... For the girl Vampiro quotes, she _is_ in paradise right now.

And, Vampiro, you don't have to thank me for writing here and in English: I am also Chilean, and I also miss those people. Any of them could teach a lot of things to (almost) every Chilean political figure of today. Could I do less for them that writing in English about them, for the unlikely case that any non Spanish speaking participant trips over this thread?


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## ninux

Oldy Nuts said:


> Just to add a little to what Vampiro has just said. All the people in the mission were unselfishly and devotedly dedicated to the noble cause of reconstruction. Their political tendencies, their ages, their religious beliefs or disbeliefs, the level of their formal education, are all things that were forgotten when the plane crashed. Felipe Camiroaga is of course very much missed by all those very many who followed his daily morning TV program, but he is mostly and very justly remembered for his kindness with people, specially people in need. Similarly, the wealth of Felipe Cubillos is something nobody cares about now; everyone remembers him as the founder of the corporation he created for helping in the reconstruction of this country, of which he was _the_ driving engine until the plane crashed. And one could continue with 19 further similar cases.
> 
> As Vampiro says, all 21 of them certanly deserve a place in paradise, if it exists. If it does not, may they be wherever they always wanted to be. Cubillos, as an albatross eternally flying over our Cape Horn/Cabo de Hornos, encouraging those who dare sailing through those very dangerous waters just for the sake of it... For the girl Vampiro quotes, she _is_ in paradise right now.
> 
> And, Vampiro, you don't have to thank me for writing here and in English: I am also Chilean, and I also miss those people. Any of them could teach a lot of things to (almost) every Chilean political figure of today. Could I do less for them that writing in English about them, for the unlikely case that any non Spanish speaking participant trips over this thread?



Paradise exist. Why shouldn't exist?
El Paradiso existe. ¿Por qué no debería existir?
Il Paradiso esiste. Perché non dovrebbe esistere?

Li ricordo nelle mie preghiere. I remember them in my prayers. Los recuerdos en mis oraciones.

Maybe now they can intercede better for the salvation of all humanity.
Tal vez ahora ellos pueden interceder mejor para la salvación de la humanidad entera.
Forse ora loro possono intercedere meglio per la salvezza dell'intera umanità 

Saludos


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## Andoush

Me uno al sentimiento de duelo y de tristeza... Pienso en los familiares y amigos de las víctimas del accidente y me duele el corazón.
Lo único que puedo ofrecerles, amigos chilenos, es un fuerte abrazo virtual...
Saludos desde Bariloche,
Andrea


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## Aviador

Colegas, hasta ahora había evitado expresar aquí mi sentir respecto de esta tragedia porque no soy muy bueno para estas cosas, aunque desde el primer momento pensé incluso, como lo hizo Vampiro, en iniciar un hilo sobre ella; sobre todo porque indirectamente me toca de forma muy profunda, imaginarán. Eso hasta hoy, cuando fueron encontrados e identificados los restos de Felipe Cubillos y Felipe Camiroaga, entre otros. 
No conocí personalmente a ninguna de las víctimas, sin embargo sentí siempre un gran respeto por Felipe Cubillos, un empresario enormemente exitoso que dejó la comodidad de su confortable vida para dedicarse por entero a ayudar a los que sufrieron la destrucción del terremoto de febrero de 2010, sobre todo a los más pobres. Me avergüenza confesar que yo mismo no hubiera sido capaz de hacerlo. Seguramente sonará a cliché, pero lo digo de todo corazón: Chile perdió a uno de sus mejores hijos.
Siempre he sido un acérrimo detractor de las revistas del corazón y los programas de televisión que explotan el cotilleo sobre la vida íntima de las celebridades, respecto de los que he sentido siempre un gran desprecio; los "programas de farándula" como se llaman aquí. Por lo tanto, no supe mucho de la vida del presentador de televisión Felipe Camiroaga, pero en estos últimos dos días, en que he tenido más tiempo para ver un poco más de televisión, aprendí a apreciar el gran hombre que fue a través de los testimonios de quienes lo conocieron. Me enteré del celo con que cuidaba la intimidad de su vida personal y de su generosidad para ayudar anónimamente a tantas personas compartiento el dinero que su exitosa carrera le reportaba. Me arrepiento ahora de no haberlo apreciado en vida como ser humano.
Esta tragedia me ha enseñado mucho sobre la vida; a esta edad, me ha enseñado mucho.


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## Oldy Nuts

Ninux, believing or not believing -in a God, in a life after death, in reincarnation- are very personal matters and therefore I tried hard not to let what I think be know through my words here. I would have considered exposing my own beliefs as a sort of pressure upon others. I respect very much everyone's right to believe or not, and in what.

Andoush/Adrea, a vitual embrace is an enormous comfort under the circumstances. The sadness is beginning to decrease, but I feel absolutely sure that you would have offered me your shoulder for me to cry on it, had you been here.

Aviador, what you wrote is a sign of how much these deaths have affected us all. If you felt the compulsion to write something, even if this is not within your normal style, shows that you were indeed moved, and have learned to respect someone moving in a world which is so far away from yours. And this is good; don't forget it too quickly.


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## ninux

Oldy Nuts said:


> Ninux, believing or not believing -in a God, in a life after death, in reincarnation- are very personal matters and therefore I tried hard not to let what I think be know through my words here. I would have considered exposing my own beliefs as a sort of pressure upon others. I respect very much everyone's right to believe or not, and in what.



I've just said that I'm with you all... And that's didn't think a pressure to say that exist a better world; if I was sad for death, i will look for something what could give me a hope of eternal life. 
I think that more or less everyone is interested in the existence of better life after death. The because of your life. Or not? Will us desperate?


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## Oldy Nuts

Please forgieve me, ninux, but I would think that _this_ thread is most definitely not the proper place to open a discussion on the matter. I would dare to think that if you open a new thread to discuss it, it would lead to a very long and heated debate.


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## romarsan

Les acompaño en el dolor por la pérdida. 
Llegará el momento en que el recuerdo de lo vivido con y gracias a los que se han ido, deje en segundo plano el dolor por su ausencia y permita disfrutar rememorando los momentos compartidos.
Ahora solo queda vivir el duelo.
Un abrazo.


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## ninux

Oldy Nuts said:


> Please forgieve me, ninux, but I would think that _this_ thread is most definitely not the proper place to open a discussion on the matter. I would dare to think that if you open a new thread to discuss it, it would lead to a very long and heated debate.


Me too... I didn't open a discussion; only hope that a *good man as Felipe Cubillos or Camiroaga *(as aviador wrote) deserve a good place to rest in Peace.
bye


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## swift

Chile es un país por el que siento un gran afecto y también una gran admiración. Pero su gente, sobre todo, es una maravilla y la solidaridad del pueblo chileno es notable.

Un abrazo.


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## fsabroso

Mi solidaridad está también con estas 21 familias, y con todo el pueblo chileno; he estado al tanto de esta lamentable noticia, Chile es un país al que quiero mucho, viví ahí y tengo muy buenos amigos con quienes mantengo contacto seguido, y sí, esto ha sido muy penoso. Felipe Camiroaga era un personaje muy querido, sencillo, simple, divertido, con una llegada a todos de manera excepcional, se le queria mucho y con mi familia disfrutamos muchas veces de su programa, de su trabajo y de su participación en un sin fin de programas de ayuda, Ël junto a Felipe Cubillos son la cara de esta tragedia, mis sinceras condolencias a todos ustedes, pueblo chileno.


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## frida-nc

También estoy con Uds. en mis sentimientos, aunque no me había llegado esta noticia.  Llevo a Chile en mi corazón.


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## JamesM

I'm so sorry to hear of this tragedy.  Thank you, Oldy Nuts, for explaining it in English and providing the links.  My Spanish is almost non-existent.

I hope you and your country find comfort and hope in the days to come.


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## Oldy Nuts

James, thank you. Even a single case such as yours makes my effort more than worthwhile.

The intense search of the last two days has produced no result whatsoever, not even a single piece of the plane. The bottom of the sea is being virtually combed, and it seems strange that large sections of the plane that shoud be highly resistant, such as the engines, have not been found. Our Navy has declared that they do not have the capacity to rescue anything that lays more than about 50 m under the surface, and they are thinking of asking for international help if needed.

The two most well known missing persons, Felipe Camiroaga and Felipe Cubillos, have now been officialy identified amongst the dead. Everyone expected so, but it was an unwelcome news anyway.

At the time, the tragedy is beginning to end being the main news in all Chilean media.

I leave it to Vampiro, who opened this thread, to thank all the Spanish speaking people who have expressed their sympathy and support.


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## Oldy Nuts

Yesterday, as part of the judicial investigation, the only witness of the failed landing attempt of the plane was very thoroughly interrogated. As a result of his declarations, they began searching in another area, and they found an important part of the fuselage, with an almost intact male body still with lifejacket (mandatory for flights over the ocean) and seatbelt. This reduced the number of unidentified victims to 8 and opens some hope of finding some more bodies. Unfortunately, weather conditions were not favourable today and almost no search operations were attempted.


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## Vampiro

Gracias a todos, amigos.
Tomando las palabras de Aviador, creo esta tragedia nos ha enseñado mucho a todos.
Un gran abrazo.
_


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## Manuel G. Rey

Vampiro, puedes tener la seguridad de que personas como las que describes llevan y tienen con ellos la paz, donde quiera que estén sus restos físicos y su espíritu.


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