# agriculture raisonnée



## EricP

Hi Everyone,
I'm trying to translate the concept of "agriculture raisonnée", which implies that this agriculture includes specific methods that are environmental friendly, etc... without being an "organic" agriculture. I even do not know if this concept exists out of France. Can we say: "reasonned agriculture"?

Bonjour à tous,
J'essaie de traduire le concept d'agriculture "raisonnée" qui implique que cette agriculture utilise des méthodes spécifiques censées être plus respectueuses de l'environnement etc... sans que cela soit de l'agriculture biologique. Je ne sais même pas si ce terme existe ailleurs qu'en France. Puis-je dire "reasonned agriculture"?

Thanks, merci
Eric


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## cropje_jnr

Est-ce dans le sens de "durable" (comme le développement durable, par exemple?)

Si oui, on peut peut-être parler de "_sustainable agricultural practices_"...


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## hunternet

--> aware agriculture practices ?


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

As Cropje Jnr pointed out, reasoned agricultured (the phrase, I think, is mostly used by the French farming community) is related to *sustainable* agriculture, isn't it ?


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## EricP

It is not as "sustainable" that means mostly a long-term activity that will allow farmers to produce with an energetic balance and low impact on environment. By example, in another domain, solar heating is sustainable because you don't extract fossil fuels. "Raisonnée" means that you follow a list of criteria that has been established previously. It means that you must follow some rules, whatever they are.


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## EricP

un example: les hypermarchés français favorisent les paysans qui pratiquent l'agriculture raisonnée


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

If we stick to Wikipedia's definition of the phrase, to be found here http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agriculture_raisonn%C3%A9e, it means low-input agriculture.


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## RuK

I think it really is sustainable agriculture. I don't agree that 'agriculture raisonnée' means obeying pre-established rules. It means using a reasonable amount of inputs, which is what sustainable agriculture aims for.


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## edwingill

Integrated farming


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## Punky Zoé

IMHO, there is nothing sustainable in "agriculture raisonnée", it is a marketing concept invented by the FNSEA in order to promote an intensive agriculture using a reasoned quantity of pesticides.


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## edwingill

see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_farming


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## Nicomon

I think edwingill is right. I googled "agriculture raisonnée" + "integrated farming"


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## EricP

It seems that "integrated farming" is the most accurate word (related indeed with wikipedia). I agree with Punky Zoe that it is a marketing concept that does not deal with "sustainable" or "organic".
Une fois encore, je suis "espanté" (comme on dit dans le midi) par la qualité et la célérité des réponses. Merci encore à tous pour votre aide et vos remarques
Eric


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## FloB

Hello,
I know that this discussion began two years ago but as I need the translation of "agriculture raisonnée". So I was looking for and I found your talk. So I disagree that this is only for marketing reason, it really deals something with sustainable but in fact in France the administration is so hard and deep, that the specifications (cahier des charges) destroyed anything. It's so boring and hard to get properly all the right things.

So concerning the translation in itself, I went on website of a label that I know they are taking part in the concept of "agriculture raisonnée" called TERRA VITIS (refering to wines of course) and in the english translation it's written "sustainable agriculture". 

I let everyone think about it. I tried to take part in the way of thinking.


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## Keith Bradford

FloB said:


> I went on website of a label that I know they are taking part in the concept of "agriculture raisonnée" ... and in the English translation it's written "sustainable agriculture"...


 
Which proves that some earlier translator was as confused as us.  But perhaps he didn't have the advantage of WordReference to help him...?


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## FloB

Yes I know that ! But I think for this kind of specific and official website, the translators should be the best, I hope so in fact!

Thank you for your quick reaction!


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## badgrammar

I've just come across the same term and I'm going with "responsible farming" - it seemed right to me and was the first thing that came to mind, and after googling it, I'm pretty confident about it. 

It's basically the idea of using "modern" farming techniques in a reasonable way, using the least amount of chemicals possible.


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## EricP

I finally agree with badgrammar about "responsible farming". It seems to be the best translation, covering both the direct translation and the meaning behind.


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## retriever gal

it's definitely "sustainable agriculture" : we use this expression all the time in Bordeaux for viticulture.


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## Punky Zoé

retriever gal said:


> it's definitely "sustainable agriculture" : we use this expression all the time in Bordeaux for viticulture.


Definitely sustainable, only for those who promote this system.


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## çamegonfle

Hello,

I think this is an affront to translate "agriculture raisonnée" as "sustainable agriculture".

"Sustainable agriculture" is a *scientific concept*, which means that the type of agriculture is sustainable from economic, social and ecological points of view. In French it would be "agriculture durable".

"Agriculture raisonnée" is a *political concept*, which refers to a type of agriculture that (pretends to) tends towards "sustainable agriculture" but which is not.

Of course it s confusing and I would say it is on purpose......... ;-)


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## retriever gal

thanks for your input - but how would you translate 'agriculture raisonnée in English then?


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## Surfin' Bird

Just to add to the general confusion :

How about "sensible farming"?


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## retriever gal

Not sure about that one....although I have heard it used a couple of times - think it sounds weird though!


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## Surfin' Bird

I've heard it too. (That's why I suggested it.)


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## çamegonfle

retriever gal said:


> thanks for your input - but how would you translate 'agriculture raisonnée in English then?


Hi RetrieverGal,

Actually I would say that everybody is free to translate it his way since it is an agricultural concept that only exists in France. "Sensible agriculture" is the closest translation, you could even let it in French..

As a political explanation in the French context, it resulted of a compromise between the advocates of the intensification (led by the industry) which took place in the last half a century and the growing protest in the civil society in response to it.

Cheers


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## çamegonfle

Actually the choice of the word "raisonnée" could be understood as an attempt to bring sense/reason in this crazy intensification process. The translation with "sensible" really makes sense I would say.


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## Punky Zoé

çamegonfle said:


> As a political explanation in the French context, it resulted of a compromise between the advocates of the intensification (led by the industry) which took place in the last half a century and the growing protest in the civil society in response to it.


 A compromise beetween advocates and protest ? It sounds a bit weird. There is no compromise in agriculture raisonnée, just a political decision made by the government under the control of the dominant representatives of intensive farming.


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## çamegonfle

Punky Zoé said:


> A compromise beetween advocates and protest ? It sounds a bit weird. There is no compromise in agriculture raisonnée, just a political decision made by the government under the control of the dominant representatives of intensive farming.


It depends how you consider it.. the gap between what it pretends to be and what it is.. Basically I agree with you..


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## Normantranslator

I beg to differ. It is most definitely NOT "sustainable". Currently working on a text that is quite accurate on this issue, and they are different layers on a same issue. badgrammar and EricP were correct in their conclusions. Sustainable is a not exactly the same concept.
As a new member I cannot post a link, but please refer to one of the 33 900 hits on Google for "responsible farming".


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## Bordelais

> Le vocable "Agriculture Raisonnée" est la traduction française du concept "Integrated Farming" (Agriculture Intégrée) des Anglo-Saxons.



This is from the website of the Farre (Forum de l 'Agriculture Raisonnée Respectueuse de l'Environnement).


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## Normantranslator

Bordelais said:


> This is from the website of the Farre (Forum de l 'Agriculture Raisonnée Respectueuse de l'Environnement).



Yet another subtle difference.

The most authoritative French translation of "integrated" is "intégrée", as in:

IOBC : International Organisation for Biological and *Integrated* Control of Noxious Animals and Plants

which on their official website gives:

OILB : Organisation Internationale de Lutte Biologique et *Intégrée* contre les Animaux et les Plantes Nuisibles


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## badgrammar

Thanks retriever gal, my bad! Just came across the term again and I must agree that you've given the correct response!


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## Punky Zoé

badgrammar said:


> Thanks retriever gal, my bad! Just came across the term again and I must agree that you've given the correct response!


Depend who is using te expression. Sustainable agriculture is "agriculture durable" in French (not agriculture raisonnée)...


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

The TermSciences portal concurs with the proponents of "integrated farming" : http://www.termsciences.fr/-/Index/...idt=TE.2999&lng=fr&aGrilleRapide=selectionner


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## Wodwo

Jean-Michel Carrère said:


> The TermSciences portal concurs with the proponents of "integrated farming" : http://www.termsciences.fr/-/Index/...idt=TE.2999&lng=fr&aGrilleRapide=selectionner



I'm trying to deal with this too, and I think the problem with referring to sites like the above is that whoever translated the concept as "integrated farming" was just another translator, just like many of us who use WordReference and with all the constraints that we know about. So while it might be an accepted version in certain circles, as a translation it simply doesn't do what the original does and won't really work in the kind of marketing context where I need an English version of "agriculture raisonnée". For obvious reasons to do with marketing, politics and all kinds of other things that have been mentioned before, "agriculture raisonnée" has very clear connotations to anybody who comes across it - sensible, rational, thought through, etc. Whereas "integrated farming" is just a piece of jargon that means nothing to anyone who doesn't already know what it means. Integrated with what??? Besides, my context is wine growing, so not "farming" at all.

I'm going to go with "responsible agriculture", which I think has the right tone and connotations.


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## Notafrog

Well I'm really late to the party but that's because I just came across this term for the first time.
“Agriculture Raisonnée” is the name of a certificate, so you wouldn't normally translate it (there's nothing stopping you adding a footnote). And since it apparently doesn't exist outside France, there's really no point looking for an “official” translation. In any case, the term coined by the certificating authority has a bit of a “n'importe quoi” ring to it don't you think? On a bad day I would just call it "Reasoned Agriculture" and leave the EL reader as bewildered as the French reader was: who said English readers were entitled to preferential treatment, eh?
Anyway, after reading all your posts—thank you Wordreferencers—I conclude that “Agriculture Raisonnée” is a compromise whereby a mandated set of somewhat arbitrary farming or horticultural practices is used (and if that doesn't include grape growing, I don't know what does). The parenthesis I am going to insert after the French term in my text is therefore, daft as you like, "compliant farming practice", or maybe "...practices" if the plural fits better. It's no more and no less than the truth.


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## Wodwo

Notafrog said:


> The parenthesis I am going to insert after the French term in my text is therefore, daft as you like, "compliant farming practice", or maybe "...practices" if the plural fits better. It's no more and no less than the truth.



I rather like "compliant", although as you indicate it's vague as anything. But it does convey the idea that there are rules and this kind of approach conforms to them. I don't think "farming" as a term covers "wine-growing" though. So for my context I'd have had to say "compliant agricultural practices" or "compliant wine-growing practices". Or maybe "agriculture raisonnée certified practices…" - gives the idea that there's a certificate to be had and they've got it, even if the reader doesn't know what it really is.


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## Keith Bradford

Gosh, I do love this site!


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## ACAMIAR

Hi everyone
Thank you for this very interesting forum on "agriculture raisonnée" and all your exchanges that will definitely help me use the best suitable terminology in English for this specifically "froggish" concept of "agriculture raisonnée"!
I know I'm a bit behind schedule (we're now in 2019!) but after some thinking about it, I will use "responsible farming" for different reasons:
- to me it is the closest to the French expression
- "agriculture raisonnée" is not necessarily sustainable or organic thus cannot be translated into "sustainable farming" or "organic farming" (the specifications are not the same / less strict for responsible farming)
- sustainable or organic farming are "de facto" responsible whilst the opposite is not true! Responsible farming is not necessarily sustainable and is not organic!
Here is my contribution hoping it can help some of you and enrich our exchanges 
Merry christmas and happy new year to all wordreferencers!


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## Locape

J'avais lu un article sur 'l'agriculture raisonnée en transition vers l'agriculture biologique' et la traduction en anglais sur le site était 'responsible farming in transition into organic farming'.


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## romanoskof

ACAMIAR said:


> I know I'm a bit behind schedule (we're now in 2019!) but after some thinking about it, I will use "responsible farming" for different reasons:
> - to me it is the closest to the French expression
> - "agriculture raisonnée" is not necessarily sustainable or organic thus cannot be translated into "sustainable farming" or "organic farming" (the specifications are not the same / less strict for responsible farming)
> - sustainable or organic farming are "de facto" responsible whilst the opposite is not true! Responsible farming is not necessarily sustainable and is not organic!


Wow, what a fascinating debate, in which so many interesting suggestions were also beside the point.   I'll side with Acamiar on this one. 
"Agriculture raisonnée" is really simply a way of saying you are NOT organic but that you will use only the necessary chemical inputs in your farming practices -- which really is just the new way of saying you are not organic. The aim is to be sustainable, but we all know that it does leave you within the range of intensive practices. So in that sense, I think that "responsible farming" covers it best. 
It does not seem to be "integrated faming" either, which translates into "agriculture intégrée". 
Honestly, I've worked in the vine-growing area, and when people say they are "raisonnés", it really just means they have reduced their use of pesticides, starting with weedkillers. 
Cheers!


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