# España necesita un cambio



## econtreras

Hola!!!

Tengo una duda al escribir una frase en inglés. ¿Un país se considera singular o plural?
A la hora de decir:
España necesita un cambio.
diría: Spain *need* a change or Spain *needs* a change.

Muchas gracias


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## Magnalp

_Spain need*s*_ (= *it needs*).
_Spain and France need_ (= _they need_).


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## blasita

Magnalp said:


> _Spain need*s*_ (= *it needs*).
> _Spain and France need_ (= _they need_).


Hola Econtreras.

You should always use the singular, even if the country name is plural, e.g. The Netherlands (_The Netherlands *is* a small country in Europe_), the United States of America, etc.

Un saludo.


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## econtreras

muchas gracias


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## Masood

I agree with the above.
However, for some reason, I would say 'Spain need' in this sentence (referring to the Spanish football team, for example):

_Spain need to win by 2 goals to qualify for the next round._


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## blasita

Masood said:


> I agree with the above.
> However, for some reason, I would say 'Spain need' in this sentence (referring to the Spanish football team, for example):
> 
> _Spain need to win by 2 goals to qualify for the next round._



I agree, Masood.

And you might also want to use a plural noun e.g. in "The United States are a major power in the world" (but you´re not talking about the country here but the government.) I think this depends if we see the government/team as a collection of individuals or look at them as a unified institution. Am I right?

Un saludo.


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## econtreras

Pero entonces, si la frase se refiere a España (el país) que necesita un cambio por todos los problemas que hay con la crisis económica... ahí, ¿que se utilizaría el singular o el plural?


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## blasita

econtreras said:


> Pero entonces, si la frase se refiere a España (el país) que necesita un cambio por todos los problemas que hay con la crisis económica... ahí, ¿que se utilizaría el singular o el plural?



Creo que si estás hablando de España como país, deberías usar el singular. Espera a ver lo que dicen los demás.


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## Masood

econtreras said:


> Pero entonces, si la frase se refiere a España (el país) que necesita un cambio por todos los problemas que hay con la crisis económica... ahí, ¿que se utilizaría el singular o el plural?


Hola

En este caso 'Spain needs...'.


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## ribran

blasita said:


> I agree, Masood.
> 
> And you might also want to use a plural noun e.g. in "The United States are a major power in the world" (but you´re not talking about the country here but the government.) I think this depends if we see the government/team as a collection of individuals or look at them as a unified institution. Am I right?
> 
> Un saludo.



In the United States, a plural verb is used with _These United States_, which is almost never used in colloquial speech.

We always use a singular verb with _the United States_.


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## blasita

ribran said:


> In the United States, a plural verb is used with _These United States_, which is almost never used in colloquial speech.
> 
> We always use a singular verb with _the United States_.



Sorry, Ribran, I don´t understand, do you mean that my sentence is incorrect even if I´m talking about the government?


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## econtreras

muchas gracias a todos!!


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## ribran

blasita said:


> Sorry, Ribran, I don´t understand, do you mean that my sentence is incorrect even if I´m talking about the government?



In American English, yes, it would be considered incorrect.

_These United States_ is found in lofty rhetoric that is meant to inspire feelings of unity and solidarity in the citizens of this vast nation.


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## blasita

ribran said:


> In American English, yes, it would be considered incorrect.
> 
> _These United States_ is found in lofty rhetoric that is meant to inspire feelings of unity and solidarity in the citizens of this vast nation.



Thanks, Ribran.

I´m a bit confused anyway; if we can use a plural noun with "team", why not meaning "government"?  Does this only apply to "the USA"? Maybe it´s also incorrect in BrE?


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## ribran

blasita said:


> Thanks, Ribran.
> 
> I´m a bit confused anyway; if we can use a plural noun with "team", why not meaning "government"?  Does this only apply to "the USA"? Maybe it´s also incorrect in BrE?



In American English, we nearly always use a singular verb with _team_, _government_, _group_, etc.


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## blasita

ribran said:


> In American English, we always use a singular verb with _team_, _government_, _group_, etc.



Sí, sabía que se prefería el singular en AmE, pero lo que no sabía es que fuera así siempre/casi siempre. Gracias otra vez.

Siento que te hayamos liado un poco, Econtreras; ya sabes, si te refieres al país, singular.


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## econtreras

No os preocupeis, de todo se aprende. 

Muchas gracias a todos.


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## ribran

blasita said:


> Sí, sabía que se prefería el singular en AmE, pero lo que no sabía es que fuera así casi siempre. Gracias otra vez.
> 
> Siento que te hayamos liado un poco, Econtreras; ya sabes, si te refieres al país, singular.



Bueno, no es siempre así. A veces se utiliza un verbo en plural. Como siempre, depende del contexto. 

A veces surge el problema de qué pronombre emplear para referirse a un grupo. En inglés americano, sería completamente natural el siguiente diálogo:

_A: Where *is* the congregation?
B: I don't know. *They* haven't arrived yet._

Bueno, ahora me callo, porque este hilo se ha desviado del tema original.


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## blasita

ribran said:


> Bueno, no es siempre así. A veces se utiliza un verbo en plural. Como siempre, depende del contexto.
> 
> A veces surge el problema de qué pronombre emplear para referirse a un grupo. En inglés americano, sería completamente natural el siguiente diálogo:
> 
> _A: Where *is* the congregation?
> B: I don't know. *They* haven't arrived yet._



Gracias. Pero en AmE no se diría entonces p.ej. Masood´s "Spain need to win ..." (the team), ¿no?


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## ribran

blasita said:


> Gracias. Pero en AmE no se diría entonces p.ej. Masood´s "Spain need to win ..." (the team), ¿no?



Correcto. Después de que España ganó el Mundial, todos los titulares decían, "SPAIN WINS!"


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## blasita

ribran said:


> Correcto. Después de que España ganó el Mundial, todos los titulares decían, "SPAIN WINS!"



Gracias.


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## aztlaniano

All countries are singular, even the United States or the United Arab Emirates or The Philippines.




ribran said:


> "SPAIN WINS!"


But it should have been: CATALONIA WINS!


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## blasita

aztlaniano said:


> All countries are singular, even the United States or the United Arab Emirates or The Philippines.



Thank you, Aztlaniano.  I actually said it in post #3.


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## donbill

Masood said:


> I agree with the above.
> However, for some reason, I would say 'Spain need' in this sentence (referring to the Spanish football team, for example):
> 
> _Spain need to win by 2 goals to qualify for the next round._



This is an interesting difference between AmE and BrE. Even if we were referring to the team, we would say "*Spain needs to win*." Indeed, I cannot imagine saying '*Spain need to win*'. I think my compatriots would agree with me.

In my opinion, Ribran's observation about _*The United States is*_ vs. _*These United States are*_ is absolutely correct. 

Saludos a todos desde uno de estos Estados Unidos de América


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## ribran

donbill said:


> This is an interesting difference between AmE and BrE. Even if we were referring to the team, we would say "*Spain needs to win*." Indeed, I cannot imagine saying '*Spain need to win*'. I think my compatriots would agree with me.
> 
> In my opinion, Ribran's observation about _*The United States is*_ vs. _*These United States are*_ is absolutely correct.
> 
> Saludos a todos desde uno de estos Estados Unidos de América



Yes, I agree!


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## Masood

ribran said:


> Yes, I agree!


The States really _are _United!


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## blasita

OK, but you know, I wonder whether my sentence would be grammatically correct or not , at least in BrE and with any country (not only the USA).  I think I understand it´s only a question of BrE/AmE, but now it´s not clear to me.


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## aztlaniano

blasita said:


> OK, but you know, I wonder whether my sentence would be grammatically correct or not , at least in BrE and with any country (not only the USA). I think I understand it´s only a question of BrE/AmE, but now it´s not clear to me.


Masood was using "Spain" to mean "la selección española" and in that sense, in British English, "Spain", as short-hand for "Spain's national side", would take a plural verb (in British, but not American, English).

In British English "the government are" (doing something), in American English "the government is".




blasita said:


> Thank you, Aztlaniano. I actually said it in post #3.


I somehow overlooked an entire page of posts. Sorry.


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## blasita

aztlaniano said:


> I somehow overlooked an entire page of posts. Sorry.



Please, don´t say sorry!  Anyway, I´m a non-native speaker, so I´m sure we all appreciate your contribution (I do). 

It´s just now I´m not sure that, as in my example, using the name of a country and a plural verb (but meaning the government and not the country itself) is grammatically correct/not.

Saludos.

Edit: You edited your post while I was writing mine.  Thanks for answering my question, Aztlaniano.


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## Masood

aztlaniano said:


> In British English "the government are" (doing something), in American English "the government is".


Oddly enough, I think I would use "is" in this case. I do hear "are" as well, though.


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## donbill

Masood said:


> The States really _are _United!



Ribran and I are waving the flag right now!

But this whole issue is complex! For example, I sometimes use singular and sometimes plural when I talk or write about 'university faculty'.

_*a. The faculty is up in arms over recent decisions!
b. The faculty oppose recent administrative decisions.

*_In sentence 'a' the obvious reference is to the faculty as a collective. In sentence 'b', 'the faculty' means 'the members of the faculty'. I suppose you'd do the same in BrE, wouldn't you?


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## Masood

donbill said:


> Ribran and I are waving the flag right now!
> 
> But this whole issue is complex! For example, I sometimes use singular and sometimes plural when I talk or write about 'university faculty'.
> 
> _*a. The faculty is up in arms over recent decisions!
> b. The faculty oppose recent administrative decisions.
> 
> *_In sentence 'a' the obvious reference is to the faculty as a collective. In sentence 'b', 'the faculty' means 'the members of the faculty'. *I suppose you'd do the same in BrE, wouldn't you?*


Yes, I would. 
It _is _complex. It all boils down to if you consider 'the faculty' (as in this case) as being a single entity or consisting of its members.


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## blasita

Masood said:


> Yes, I would.
> It _is _complex. It all boils down to if you consider 'the faculty' (as in this case) as being a single entity or consisting of its members.



Tengo que decirte, Masood, que has echado por tierra mi teoría ; podrías usar "are" con "the government" así como con "the faculty". Yo lo tendría claro, y hala, todos contentos.


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## Masood

blasita said:


> Tengo que decirte, Masood, que *has echado por tierra mi teoría* ; podrías usar "are" con "the government" así como con "the faculty". Yo lo tendría claro, y hala, todos contentos.


Hi blasita

What does this bit mean? I think it means I agree with your theory (which I do in any case).


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## blasita

Masood said:


> Hi blasita
> 
> What does this bit mean? I think it means I agree with your theory (which I do in any case).



Sorry, it means something like "prove wrong, shatter my illusions, destroy" (it was a joke, anyway). Tenía la idea de que siempre se podía usar el singular y el plural en BrE, y que se prefería el singular en AmE, y al haber dicho que preferías "is" con "government" pues ya no tengo una teoría/regla clara.

No quiero insistir más, porque creo que (mi culpa seguramente) nos estamos alejando de la pregunta inicial de este hilo.  Muchas gracias a todos por vuestra ayuda.

Un saludo.


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## ribran

donbill said:


> Ribran and I are waving the flag right now!
> 
> But this whole issue is complex! For example, I sometimes use singular and sometimes plural when I talk or write about 'university faculty'.
> 
> _*a. The faculty is up in arms over recent decisions!
> b. The faculty oppose recent administrative decisions.
> 
> *_In sentence 'a' the obvious reference is to the faculty as a collective. In sentence 'b', 'the faculty' means 'the members of the faculty'. I suppose you'd do the same in BrE, wouldn't you?



Oh, college professors! They're always complaining about something (my dad is a professor of history at the local university)!

Anyway, I, too, would use _is_ in the first sentence and _oppose_ in the second.


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