# using foreign languages in your country



## Joca

I had a friend who would respond in a foreign language whenever she was insulted, for instance while she was driving her car through heavy traffic, but she would do it rather to herself than to the offender, possibly as a way to ventilate her own anger. Silly it may seem, but who knows if it worked for her? I also know of other people who, not wanting to be overheard in a queue or on the bus, for example, will change to a foreign tongue to carry on a conversation with their interlocutors. What do you think about this? Do you ever speak in a foreign language in your own country either as a way to not be overheard and understood by other irrelevant people or in order to ventilate your anger at something or someone else? Do you think this is rude or snobbish or a foolish thing to do?


----------



## Q-cumber

*Joca*
I think, if you don't want to be overheard, just don't speak about sensitive things in public places. Unless you speak Marsian dialect, such an "encryption" gives you no warranty. I've read many funny stories about Russians, speaking "securely" in US, Germany, etc.  This is a small world...


----------



## Joca

Q-cumber said:


> *Joca*
> I think, if you don't want to be overheard, just don't speak about sensitive things in public places. Unless you speak Marsian dialect, such an "encryption" gives you no warranty. I've read many funny stories about Russians, speaking "securely" in US, Germany, etc.  This is a small world...


 
Yes, you are right, but this is a country where very few people understand foreign languages, so I thought the question would make sense at least in terms of this country. Possibly it wouldn't work with major national languages in the countries of the so-called First World, where it seems many people understand them. Maybe the question should be deleted, being irrelevant?


----------



## Maeskizzle

My folks and I hosted a foreign exchange student from Chile a few years ago.  He lived and went to high school for a year in my hometown and lived in my folks house.  He spoke pretty good English, but we spoke sometimes in Spanish for different reasons: so that we wouldn´t be understood by others and also to express some things that just don´t translate to English.  

Also my aunts, uncle and cousin have been studying Spanish for a decade or more and we speak spanish together because its fun to practice it.


----------



## Jigoku no Tenshi

Hello Everybody!

In my country a lot of people do that, for different reasons, for example, there's people whose grand parents or parents are foreigners, and they talk, their native language at home, I also use it for cursing, I'd rather say it in another language so most of the people won't understand, Sometimes I use it as a code with some of my friends or for practicing, but most of the times even talking in our native people won't understand us. Well it also depends of the language itself, because If I use English, Italian, Portuguese at least one person around will understand, but If I use Russian, No one will, so it's most of the time a way to practice, more than a way to cover what I'm saying, another typical thing is translating a quote and using it in our native languages, but as I said it's for practicing, for having someone correct your mistakes, and learning or because it's easier or you have no choice, for example foreigners parents and grandparent. Nevertheless in footballs games I've seen in my own country Native americans players talking in their language so we won't find out the strategy!


----------



## .   1

If I had a second language I would use it as a matter of course to hold private conversations in public places.

As it is all I can do is to use veiled speech.  It is probably more effective than a known language as veiled speech requires prior private knowledge.

.,,


----------



## Calamitintin

I sometimes spoke Italian with a friend of mine, as a private joke, because we knew our other friends couldn't understand, and it was funny. But we didn't do it too long, because it's quickly boring for the others 
Sometimes too I speak a foreign language to myself, but it's not always on purpose. For example I study now in Germany and learn in German. Sometimes the words come in German...
++
Cal


----------



## panjabigator

If I need privacy, I always speak in a different language, be it Hindi/Panjabi/Urdu/Spanish/English.  I don't see any issue in it.  The people I sit next to on the bus are not my friends so there is no point in my worrying about excluding them from whatever trivial conversation I hold...

I'd like to know if there are objections to this behavior.


----------



## .   1

panjabigator said:


> I'd like to know if there are objections to this behavior.


Your conversations have nothing to do with anybody else and would almost certainly be excruciatingly boring to a stranger.

I would consider you to be very well mannered to speak in a different language.  That way your sound would just be a meaningless melody line to the rest of the passengers.

.,,


----------



## TRG

I play tennis with a guy who is a Canadian citizen, but born in Poland.  During his matches, if things are not going well, he curses loudly in Polish.  Everyone thinks it's hilarious, but if someone were doing the same thing in English, it would not be well received.  So in this case, it is a good way for my friend to vent his frustration without offending people as the original poster suggested.


----------



## Etcetera

Hi Joca,
Here's a thread on a similar topic: Using a foreign language in your home country = showing off?
As for use of foreign swear words instead of their equivalents in your own language, I definitely like this idea. But I myself prefer to swear as little as possible.


----------



## palomnik

My wife and I will inevitably switch to Russian (her native language) when we don't want to be overheard.  However, it's not the sort of thing I would normally do on a bus as a matter of course; it's only when we want privacy.

As for cursing in a foreign language, my wife wouldn't dream of cursing in Russian, regardless of who might hear, although she will let off with a torrent in English.  To her, it sounds ten times worse in Russian!  Likewise, given the way she feels I would never curse in Russian in front of my wife, although I will curse in English in front of Russians - an instinctive reaction, I'm afraid.

On a more general topic, it's difficult to curse in a language other than your native language without running the risk of sounding silly, unless you're intimately familiar with the second language.


----------



## PocketCathy

_I would consider you to be very well mannered to speak in a different language. That way your sound would just be a meaningless melody line to the rest of the passengers._

I find that quote very interesting! As the only Spanish speaker in my family, my parents instilled in me that it would be rude to speak a language someone doesn't understand in front of them. Since moving to Cleveland, where few people speak Spanish fluently, I'm always scolding my husband for speaking Spanish to me when we're out and about and he doesn't want anyone to understand our conversation.

Was anyone else raised with this thinking?


----------



## lizzeymac

My mother said the same thing.  I was taught that it would be rude to speak another language in front of other people, even strangers, at a social event or at work as the clear intention was to exclude them.  I was taught you should at least move out of their hearing - if you really want privacy that seems sensible.  It would be OK to speak another language on the bus, on the street, or while waiting on line to get tickets to a movie- there is no social or professional relationship between you & the stranger on line next to you.  My mother also pointed out that in NYC there is a pretty good chance that the person standing next to you will speak the language that you think is "private" so you should think about what you are saying.


----------



## .   1

PocketCathy said:


> _I would consider you to be very well mannered to speak in a different language. That way your sound would just be a meaningless melody line to the rest of the passengers._
> 
> I find that quote very interesting! As the only Spanish speaker in my family, my parents instilled in me that it would be rude to speak a language someone doesn't understand in front of them. Since moving to Cleveland, where few people speak Spanish fluently, I'm always scolding my husband for speaking Spanish to me when we're out and about and he doesn't want anyone to understand our conversation.
> 
> Was anyone else raised with this thinking?


That is a very different situation.
I consider it extremely rude to speak in front of friends and relations in a language not known to them.
My wife is European and I speak only Australian.
I am a poet and afraid of learning her language as it would interfere with the melody lines of my language. 
Her language is virtually useless to her and she only uses it to speak with her mother and one friend but everybody else has only English as a common language so that is what we all use (lucky me). 
Everybody at a party is confronted if we hear an Italian conversation pop up. 
Instantly the old biddies (and codgers like me) wonder what is secret but we soon find out because everybody knows somebody who speaks Italian and their milk language so off they babble in Czech and then someone knows someone who speaks Czech and Romanian and Hungarian and Greek and Serbian and Croation and there is a cacophony of melody lines and utterly no secrets. Just a lot of Chinese Whispers.

Strangers on the street have utterly no right to eavesdrop on your conversation.
I have the good manners to not speak any of the technical 'languages' that I possess unless I am speaking only to a person with the same language.
Jargon is just as impenetrable as a foreign language.
I will happily jargon in front of me mates but it would be bad manners to do this if even one person was not in the know.

.,,


----------



## liv3000

I'm an italian leaving in Denmark for almost a year now, l've spent months without understand a word about what people were saying around me!! When l can speak italian in  a square or in a bus with someone, l can feel that as slightly funny, also for being on the other side..!


----------



## Sepia

Fine: I am not supposed to speak with another person in a another language than English in front of somebody who only speaks English, if the person I am speaking with understands English, because the English speaking person finds this rude. (I am pointing out "English" because I have rarely heard this argument from other than anglophone persons). 

Now, what if the other guy finds it rude - or at least strange - or feels that the communication is inhibited, when I don't speak to him in his native language, which I could do?

Does the Australian or American always have the higher priority - is that what you guys are trying to tell us?


----------



## lizzeymac

I was talking about a general rule for good manners, taught to a child.  When kids learn a language in school it is not unknown for them to use it to exclude other children or to talk about a "secret" in front of adults. If the intent of speaking not-English is to exclude a person in a social situation it may very well be perceived as rude. Context is everything.
Of course you may speak German (for example) to a only-German-speaking person in front of an only-English-speaking person.  How this action is perceived will be perceived will be influenced by the situation.  Do you all know each other?  Are you at a social gathering? Does the English-speaking person know that the only German-speaking person only speaks German?  In a social situation you might simply explain the situation & you might end up translating a 3-way conversation for both the English & German-speakers.  If you are not at a social gathering where introducing people to each other & encouraging conversation is a norm, then none of this applies.

My city is awash with tourists speaking not-English & it doesn't bother me or anyone I know.  In a small town that doesn't have many foreign language speakers passing through, you might get a surprised look from people passing you on the street.  You might be the most unusual thing to happen in the town in a month.


----------



## .   1

Sepia said:


> Does the Australian or American always have the higher priority - is that what you guys are trying to tell us?


I'm not trying to tell you anything other than my perception of communication.

If I am talking with you and another bloke and we are all part of the same group and I suddenly slip into a language that you can't comprehend by commenting on the rough boatrace of the iceberger hanging around the dingo next to the warb over in the corner you would rightfully feel excluded and wonder why you have suddenly been excluded.

.,,


----------



## paquijote

At work I often use Spanish while speaking to native Mexicans, but also when on my own to express anger and be able to vent without people understanding or being offended.  I don't intend to offend, rather just be able to vent frustration and such.   Unfortunately, some of the profane words I use are recognized by English speakers, who then take it personally...


----------



## NileQT87

paquijote said:


> Unfortunately, some of the profane words I use are recognized by English speakers, who then take it personally...



Which is why if you live in the southwestern U.S.A. it is better if you do your ranting in a language other than English or Spanish. lol. I find French generally does the trick.

As for the topic--feel free to talk in your languages, because I'll be the one who generally tries to try out what they know or ask you how to say a few basic words. Reading foreign languages is the easiest, however. I've never studied Dutch for 5 minutes, but I knew enough German to read my bill from the "gasthuis" (hospital in Dutch). Otherwise, in Holland I was stuck with "een water", "vader", "koffiehuis" and "tak". Similarly, I spent most of my time in Greece teaching myself the alphabet from signs that I could figure out--mostly places, gods/goddesses, "taverna" (tavern) and "exodos" (exit).

I'm still recovering from the horror of seeing a Greek telephone commercial that was mimicking Californian Valley girl stereotypes.

In my family, I rattle off random foreign language words and phrases all the time. My mom can't even twirl her tongue, much less speak Spanish. But around people I know, there are a couple of phrases I use consistently that are pretty much expected. For example--if I wish somebody "Happy Birthday", i generally say it in the 5 languages I know the phrase in.

As for how to act around people who speak a different language, we have an anglophone term that wholeheartedly agree with: "chill out".

However, I do think that immigrants to a country need to assimilate to the dominant culture. Honoring one's culture is different than separating yourself off into a separate community that follows its own rules that aren't congruent with the rest of the country's culture. Melting pot or salad bowl doesn't mean separating yourself out like a TV dinner into separate food compartments.


----------



## mirx

PocketCathy said:


> _I would consider you to be very well mannered to speak in a different language. That way your sound would just be a meaningless melody line to the rest of the passengers._
> 
> I find that quote very interesting! As the only Spanish speaker in my family, my parents instilled in me that it would be rude to speak a language someone doesn't understand in front of them. Since moving to Cleveland, where few people speak Spanish fluently, I'm always scolding my husband for speaking Spanish to me when we're out and about and he doesn't want anyone to understand our conversation.
> 
> Was anyone else raised with this thinking?


 
I was, it doesn't matter whether or not you know the people. I find it completely rude to speak in a foreing language when it can be avoided. Not doing so goes again my society's etiqutte rules. Is very much frowned upon.

I admit that I have used it so that people won't understand what I am saying, but it is always a last resource. Of course THIS IS IN MY COUNTRY.

I don't think anyone would mind in countries where many cultures and languages mix, such as the USA, western Europe, Canada, and many countries that many people with different native languages call home.


----------



## .   1

mirx said:


> I admit that I have used it so that people won't understand what I am saying, but it is always a last resource. Of course THIS IS IN MY COUNTRY.


This is impossible to refute or confirm until we have another contribution from an Andromedian and I suspect that we are light years from that point.

How can your society frown on the choice of language around strangers?
Nobody knows who can speak what?
People around here have far more to do with their time and spare mental processes than to monitor the language of strangers and give them a good frowning if they think them rude.  There must be a lot of bent noses around Andromeda if Andromedians are any thing like Aussies who would pointedly inform such an eaves dropper to go and wipe their nose.

.,,


----------



## Macunaíma

Joca said:


> (...) this is a country where very few people understand foreign languages (...) Possibly it wouldn't work with major national languages in the countries of the so-called First World, where it seems many people understand them (...)


 
Joca, just an aside: I don't agree that the fact that very few people in Brazil speak foreign languages can be ascribed only to poor education. It's rare even among the upper middle classes, or rich people. We are a huge country, you know, with a culture very much our own, and we cannot be compared to a Dutch, for example, who will be in a different country where they speak a different language if they drive for two hours. Going abroad on your holidays to "change the landscape", as we say, is not a necessity here either, and even those who can affort it generally travel within the country most of the times. Take the US for example, they are a rich country where the great majority of people are monolingual, and I believe for the same reason as us. Even if Brazil were so rich as California, we would still be a monolingual country, were only those who had a liking for languages would bother learning one.


----------



## Lugubert

I know bits and pieces of more languages than most in my country. So, I'm very careful about not being regarded _in my country_ as "showing off". Knowing that there are more polyglots than me and my acquaintences, I'm careful about using "unexpected" languages in other countries as well.

Examples: Me and my then fiancée were approaching a certain district in Amsterdam. At a Salvation Army site, we overheard two young Swedish guys rather making fun of the Army in their (our) language. I told them in Swedish and in no uncertain way that the Army was way more respected in the Netherlands than in Sweden, and that they to safeguard their health should be more careful about what they excreted.

A couple of years later, in an Italian pizzeria in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, another (likewise 100%) Swedish fiancée of mine told me that the personnel were commenting on her looks. They should have been more cautious, because by those looks, she could then (and still, 30 years later) pass for an Italian or Spanish girl anytime. She was and is fluent in Italian_. _Fortunately, she told me that the comments were positive. Otherwise, being very much younger than now, I might have created a useful scene. I managed, though, to make our orders in almost comprehensible Italian, and then there were no discussions in Italian among the staff for us to overhear.


----------



## karuna

Doesn't using a foreign language in your own country actually attract more attention? Who normally listens what to people's conversations on the street unless they are too loud and disturbing? I personally don't care what the person next to me in the train speaks on his cellphone, or what that couple behind me is quarelling about because they are so common everyday things with little interest. But I would certainly become curious if I heard someone speaking in a foreign language because that's something unusual.

Besides you can always encounter people who can understand your supposedly very rare language in the locality. Once my Russian friends and I were buying fruits in a small town in India, and while we were discussing which ones are the best, one undistinguished customer suddenly interjected in a good Russian, "Take bananas, they are very good!"


----------



## K-Milla

Hello everyone!!! It is pleasure to read and realize that in the world there are a lot of people who speaks another language than their own one.

I suppose that is rude to talk in front of someone in other language if they don´t know it, but I have heard of many people that tried to do this to feel better and they were actually saying something bad about that kind of person/people.

For me, if I speak to my sister in other language, maybe would be because we want to practice that language, more than a curse or as a gossip. Funny thing is that you don´t think that someone could understand what you are talking about 

In my experience, horrible idea to talk "begin" that person.


----------



## Porteño

I have always considered to be impolite and discourteous to speak in a foreign language to a fellow speaker when the majority of those around me can not understand it. However, an exception would be in the case where that friend did not speak the language of those others.

On one occasion I was with two friends in Antwerp, one who was a Scot, the other Italian. Our only common language was French which was anathema to the Flemish. The owner of the bar asked us to speak some other language because customers were complaining. On being apprised of the situation, she then asked us to leave but sweetened it by saying we did not have to pay for our beer!

Using a foreign lamguage to make comments about others can be an embarrassing experience. I remember being on a train from Nairobi to Mombasa. In the dining car there were two middle-aged men accompanied by two very attractive young women in their twenties. My travelling companion made a few, not particularly complimentary remarks about the women in Spanish. Imagine his face when the two couples rose to leave and one of the girls, in fluent Spanish with a distinctly Argentine accent, said that 'the two whores' bade him a good night!


----------



## La Bruja Libanesa

In Lebanon, because we have been by the french for a long period and because we had french and american / english missionnaries in our country since decades, it common to use in one sentence the three languages at the same time, how ever certain minorities ( armenians, syriac, assyrians, kurds...) do speak their own dialect when they are in their own environment or dont want to be understood, now i admit that for us who dont understand this dialect, it is annoying and even though armenians have been settled in Lebanon since the beguinning of the 20th century ( even before for some), they are not completely united with the Lebanese population ( culturally and politically speaking ( not economically)


----------



## K-Milla

I had my own experiences speaking in a different language here in Mexico and other countries.

When I was in the UK, my sister and me when shopping and well, you can imagine that we were talking in Spanish. So, we went from shop to shop, trying to find something nice and I rememberd that in a store where they have this funny stuff and funny articles, my sister and I started talking about the silly things they have there and that we couldn´t believe that someone could buy that. Then, I saw a strange object and just for curiosity, I asked to the shop assitant the price of it and she answered in Spanish [a girl from Spain]. I felt really bad,


----------



## Haylette

This thread has amused me greatly, as the only time I ever speak a foreign language in England is when my French friend and I speak her language....so that other people don't understand what we're saying 

I know that my conversation would probably be _excruciatingly boring_ to my fellow passengers, but I've found that people on buses generally don't have anything better to do than listen to the tedious conversations going on around them.  I realise that this is quite rude, but to be honest I feel more guilty about somehow mis-using French.  By contrast, I only speak English on public transport in other countries, for fear of the native speakers judging me.

My aforementioned friend actually swears in English, because she feels it is somehow less offensive.  True enough if you're  in a cafe somewhere in France - not so good when you're in the childrens playgound in Norfolk, as she soon found out.


----------



## Black Opal

I've never thought about it really.
I'm *E*nglish, my husband is *I*talian, and he doesn't speak *E*nglish, so we speak in *I*talian wherever we are.
My son is bi-lingual, and we switch between languages simple because (and I also find this with my best friend who is also *E*nglish but bilingual in *I*talian) some concepts or sayings come out better in one language than another, and _some phrases are so good in either *E*nglish or *I*talian_ that they should never be translated. So we flit between languages.

I don't think it's rude to others _unless we are with others_. 
If we are out _on our own_ and people are eavesdroping, then I would suggest it is none of their business what language I am speaking


----------



## spacealligator

Here, in Southern California, something close to 200 languages are spoken and you can hear just about any kind of language at different times during the day. Nobody thinks it's rude because a lot of the people who live here cannot speak English. I think it is absolutely more polite to use a different language so that those around you cannot understand, then to make everyone around you privy to your private business. Think about people talking on cellphones in public places so that everyone can hear about their marital problems, the maladies their children suffer from, and their latest purchase. I would rather not hear about all this stuff at all. But if I have to suffer, I would prefer they spoke in a language I cannot understand. Do I care if they are talking about me? Not in the slightest. As for my own personal use of foreign languages in my country - well, my friends and I like to discuss females in public places and comment on various features of their anatomy (almost always in a positive vein), and we do this in Russian. I am sure the ladies would appreciate the fact that we do it in a foreign language rather than have everyone hear our thoughts. If we feel the need to curse publicly, we also do it in Russian, which is also, I believe, a form of public service. I would personally like everyone to curse in a language I could not understand, but unfortunately they don't. As to uncomfortable situations where people turn out to understand/speak Russian, which is the language I use for private communication, since Spanish is already so widely spoken, I have never had that problem. I can tell a Russian person from a mile away. So, my conclusion is: unless you are trying to ask or tell me something, please feel free to speak any language you want, whether it be one I understand or one I do not. And if you are saying something about me behind my back, I especially commend your use of a foreign tongue because if you spoke a language I could understand, we would get into a confrontation, which is something nobody wants. And finally, the ultimate rule is speak sparingly and keep it positive in whatever language.


----------



## JGreco

I had one of my most embarrassing moments at school because of this topic. I find it funny how some people will say the  most  honest things when they think the people around them can't understand them. I was walking to class behind two female Brazilian exchange students laughing and talking away who were happened to be going to the same class I was. Unfortunately they decided to talk about sexual positions they did with their boyfriends the night before very loud because they assumed no one understood them anyways. I got soooo embarrassed so tried to walk slower and act like that I didn't understand them. But once we got to class and one of the girl's turned around and realized that I was the person walking behind them. She looked at me and somehow realized I understood their conversation and she screamed in class! She told her friend in Portuguese that I heard everything and they abruptly left class. How embarrassing. Later that semester we talked about what happened and I've kept in touch with them ever sense. What a way to get introduced to people.


----------



## tom_in_bahia

Yes, here in Brazil I speak English with some friends who speak it really well when we don't want anyone else around to understand what we're saying. Of course, if I get angry or frustrated and just start speaking at full-on native speed, I've found that not even the most advanced student of English here will even understand a word, so it's good that I avoid offending people with my poor English (poor in the sense of expletives).

When in the states, I tend to curse using a small vocabulary of Neapolitan words that my family inherited from my grandmother. When I'm with my cousin, we speak in broken Polish so people around us don't understand...pity it never worked in front of his dad! When I was working full time at my family's restaurant I would speak Kreyol with a couple of the guys who worked there to avoid the customers knowing the dissatisfaction I had with their attitude...that was always fun.


----------



## HIEROPHANT

But how can you curse without being spotted? The tone of voice will give a good idea of what you're saying to everybody.
Also, a language it's a way to communicate with other people, if you don't want to "communicate your cursing" to others, what's the point in saying it loud?
I agree that cursing in another language it's really stupid if you cannot master it very well.


----------



## tom_in_bahia

HIEROPHANT said:


> But how can you curse without being spotted? The tone of voice will give a good idea of what you're saying to everybody.
> Also, a language it's a way to communicate with other people, if you don't want to "communicate your cursing" to others, what's the point in saying it loud?
> I agree that cursing in another language it's really stupid if you cannot master it very well.



It's just one more way to avoid taboos. For example, my mother will say "gosh, darn it!" to avoid the taboo of "God damn it!". People in the states will more often then not prefer to refer to a cock as a rooster and will teach their children to call a cat as kitty and not as pussy. 

Here in Brazil, people will say "Vai tomar nesse/naquele lugar! (go take it in that place)" in order to not use the more offensive "Vai tomar no cú! (go take it up your ass)." I have friends here in Brazil who love swearing in English because they feel a tad bit more liberated to say what they'd like without social sanctions. 

When I curse in the 5 or 6 useful words and phrases I know in Napuletan', I get the satisfaction of feeling like I'm not offending anyone around me. Aside from that, I don't really do it on purpose, it kind of just comes out from repeated hearing and use since I was a younger kid..._Maronna!_


----------



## K-Milla

One of my friends, who is from Poland and lives in England, she uses English  words to swear. I think that she prefers to do that in order to be part of a culture, everybody knows that she is upset or mad, though. Is just as Hierophant said, the tone of your voice gives the idea.


----------



## amonik

actually i do it a lot.
friends are from brasil am from guatemala
so we mixed words in portuguese and in spanish 
and we live in california
so it gives more privacy


----------



## ayupshiplad

I do it all the time...

I have an Austrian friend who is bi-lingual with English and German and learns French, Latin, Spanish and Italian at school. Which means we have 4 languages in common, and frequently use them when in public when we don't want to be overheard...

Even in Scotland, with my half French friend I speak French.

At work, all the guys speak to/about everyone in Portuguese...sometimes it can be quite annoying, but we know it's only because they can't express what they want to say in English. And they're mostly complimentary anyway! But sometimes it can feel quite lonely, when you're in a kitchen with 8 Brazilians who are babbling away in Portuguese and you can't really contribute unless it's in very slow Portuguese!


----------



## Macunaíma

I used to have an American neighbour who could speak perfect Portuguese, but sometimes he would suddely switch the conversation over to English with friends who could speak English. I was always embarrassed when he did that with me in public, because you are never more in the spotlight as when you are speaking a foreign language among people who cannot understand it. They may not understand _what_ you are saying, but that makes your presence too obtrusive. It's the opposite of discretion and, as a consequence, of privacy, in my opinion.


----------

