# BCS - Nicknames/Hypocorisms



## Tassos

Throughout the thread BCS - nouns adding -en- there is talk about male nicknames/hypocorisms (which are MALE nouns, sorry ). I have some questions on the subject but I thought they would certainly be off-topic so I did the split myself before the moderators do it for me  



Anicetus said:


> Anyway, if you want to decline a name like its bearer would, you should  know where they are from first. For example, you can be sure that no  names characteristic for southern Croatia (such as Ante, Mate, Stipe)  add -et- in their declension.



Yes, but are Ante, Mate and Stipe considered hypocorisms?
When you say "though today some of these are actually given as official names, at least where I live" are these three possible examples?



Anicetus said:


> I've just thought of an another example I've heard both versions of: the surname _Bare_ (as in _Goran Bare_).



Does anyone know if other surnames in the BCS region behave like that?

As we are on the subject of nicknames one very interesting thing for me is the nicknaming of famous people. Many times the hypocorisms become equally or even more known than the person's actual name . But I have the impression that this is much more pronounced in Serbia than in Croatia or Bosnia (for example from Serbia immediately come to mind Bajaga, "Nole" Đoković, "Đole" Balašević, "Piksi" and "Bata" Stojković, "Peđa" Stojaković etc. while from Croatia only Johnny Štulić and from Bosnia Meša Baždarević and Asim "Hase" Ferhatović).


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## DenisBiH

As far as Bosnia-Herzegovina is concerned, I don't think I'd be straying too far from the truth if I said that everyone, famous or not, gets a nickname, sometimes more than one if the first one isn't universally accepted. Mine are: Deko, Deno, Deni, Denči, Nisde and Profa plus a few based on my surname. However, often a single nickname sticks.

Perhaps the media report only those which are universally accepted. Some others include:

Meša (<Mehmed) Selimović
Zvjezdan Misimović "Miske"
Edin Džeko "Dijamant"
Miroslav Blažević "Ćiro" 
Vahid Halilhodžić "Vaha"
Blaž Slišković "Baka"
Sabahudin Topalbećirević "Baho"
Semir Cerić "Koke"
Edin Dervišhalidović "Dino Merlin" (actually an artistic name, but Dino would be a regular nickname for Edin)
Hajrudin Varešanović "Hari Mata Hari"
Ismet Bajramović "Ćelo"
Fikret Abdić "Babo"

But you could see and hear nicknames for other people in everyday speech, forum communication etc. that you wouldn't regularly see and hear in the media, on account of them not being universally accepted and/or too derogatory.

Yours would potentially be: _Táso_, _Tále_, _Tȁse_, _Tȁske_...


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## Anicetus

Tassos said:


> Yes, but are Ante, Mate and Stipe considered hypocorisms?



Not necessarily, though they are obviously derived from Antun, Matija/Matej and Stjepan (or Stipan). They probably were hypocorisms originally, but there are more people named Ante than Antun today, for example. I'd say it's simply not such a widespread custom to have one name and be called by a shorter version of it in all but most formal situations. The shorter versions are actually used as official names.  



> When you say "though today some of these are actually given as official names, at least where I live" are these three possible examples?



Yes, definitely (or to be more precise, the latter two would be more likely to be Mato and Stijepo in my immediate area).



> Does anyone know if other surnames in the BCS region behave like that?



I can think of _Krile_ and _Kriste_, and they would take the feminine declension because they're either from southern Croatia or Herzegovina. They were probably male hypocorisms originally, anyway.



> As we are on the subject of nicknames one very interesting thing for me is the nicknaming of famous people. Many times the hypocorisms become equally or even more known than the person's actual name . But I have the impression that this is much more pronounced in Serbia than in Croatia or Bosnia (for example from Serbia immediately come to mind Bajaga, "Nole" Đoković, "Đole" Balašević, "Piksi" and "Bata" Stojković, "Peđa" Stojaković etc. while from Croatia only Johnny Štulić and from Bosnia Meša Baždarević and Asim "Hase" Ferhatović).



What about Tito?  I can also think of Stjepan Mesić, the former president of Croatia, who was frequently referred to as "Stipe" in public. But you're probably right.


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## Brainiac

Anicetus said:


> What about Tito?  I can also think of Stjepan Mesić, the former president of Croatia, who was frequently referred to as "Stipe" in public. But you're probably right.



And Slobodan Milošević - Sloba, Mirjana Marković - Mira (Sloba i Mira). 

Yes Taske , a public figure soon or later gains a nickname. But I believe it's the same everywhere. In Greece too...


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## Tassos

@Denis

To be fair , I wasn't so sure about Bosnia. It's just that not so many football or basketball players from this region have played in Greece over the years . And just think that one of my favorite players of all time is "Duško" Bajević... Or that in Meho Kodro, "Meho" is actually a nickname...

@Anicetus

After careful remembering  just two others come to mind Robert "Žuto" Prosinečki and Velimir "Zeko" Zajec.

@Brainiac (hey where have you been??)

Yes, but not nearly as much as in Bosnia and Serbia. For common folk I would say that it's done a lot here too, but for public figures much much less...


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## DenisBiH

You see, the case with Tito is interesting. _Tito _was originally a nickname, but since in time that became the primary way to refer to him, a new nickname was developed by some, so we have _Tile _as a less formal way to refer to _Tito_. 

I don't know about Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro, but the story goes (and I tend to agree) that people in Bosnia-Herzegovina are notoriously irreverent when it comes to famous people / public figures. There is an anecdote about Ivo Andrić strolling through Sarajevo after having won the Nobel Prize in Literature and being addressed by a passerby: "Halo pisac, napiše li se šta?" (another version has it as "Ćoro, napiše li se šta?"). Therefore, no surprise that famous people should also be publicly referred to by their nicknames. By the way, Ivo is another example of an earlier nickname (Ivo < Ivan) turned into a given name.

I see it in a positive light: no matter who you are, which ethnicity, religion and how rich and famous, you get a two-syllable (usually) nickname; so that practice is a kind of a "leveler". Here's an example of a famous Sarajevan Israeli who seems to have kept his Yugoslav nickname far far away from Yugoslavia. 

Some others from B-H:

Branko Đurić "Đuro"
Saša Lošić "Loša" Saša itself can of course also be a nickname for Aleksandar
Goran Bregović "Brega"
Dražen Ričl "Zijo"
Dražen Žerić "Žera"
Mladen Vojičić "Tifa"
Hajrudin Krvavac "Šiba"
Ivica Osim "Švabo"
Davor Sučić "Sejo Sexon" (stage name)
Nenad Janković "Nele Karajlić" (stage name)


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## Tassos

I agree with you Denis. I see the process of "nicknaming" in the region as something very positive and exceptional.
The only other country that I can think of, that has such varied and extensive "nicknaming" customs (btw used pretty much like in Bosnia or Serbia) is Brazil  (they even have a nickname for their president ).

And one of the main differences between what is happening in your area and in mine is the unpredictability of the whole process. My name, for example, literally is an hypocorism. But nobody thinks of it as such. My full name is Αναστάσιος (Anastassios) but it sounds slightly archaic and the obvious and predictable choices for me to be called was either Αναστάσης (Anastassis) or Τάσος (Tassos). But nobody here considers them as "nicknames" but rather as "short forms" of a proper name. 

While in your area you have nicknames deriving from proper names, from surnames, from someone's physical appearence ("Žuto" Prosinečki ) or from totally unpredictable sources (Tifa's nickname for example comes from his difficulty in pronouncing the phrase "ide locomotiva" which he pronounced as "ide locomotifa" )....


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## DenisBiH

Hm, yes, we do combine different sources for deriving our nicknames: given names, surnames, physical appearance etc.

I think that even if we look at only those hypocorisms deriving from given names and exclude surnames etc, we still have some which have come to be used as proper given names today, and some which have not.

Here's an example from HJP about all hypocorisms deriving from the name Josip. Note that Joža was Tito's original nickname and that it can serve as a proper given name (at least Google seems to suggest that). The same goes for Jozo and Joško, but not for Osip, Pepi, Sibe, Sipe etc. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.


> ♦ m. os. ime (_bibl. _podrijetla; širi se tek od 16. st., osobito u 18); isto: *Jòsif* (_pravosl._), *Jòsef* _zast._, *Jùsuf* (_musl._); _hip._: *Bȅpo*, *Jóso*, *Jȍško*, *Józo* (Zagora i Hercegovina), *Jȍža* (kajkavsko područje), *Òsip*, *Pèpi*, *Síbe*, *Sípe* (Dalmacija), *Zéfo*; *Jòsipa* ž. os. ime; isto: *Jozefína*; _hip._: *Bȅpa*, *Fȋna*, *Jòžica*, *Pȅpica*




Btw, I suppose that in your birth certificate it says Αναστάσιος? Are there people with Αναστάσης or Τάσος in their birth certificates?


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## Tassos

DenisBiH said:


> Btw, I suppose that in your birth certificate it says Αναστάσιος?



Yes it does. And every time something must refer to me in an official capacity (for example a passport) it must say Αναστάσιος. But if someone calls me like that on the street probably I won't turn 



DenisBiH said:


> Are there people with Αναστάσης or Τάσος in their birth certificates?



Theotertically they can be. 
It is as we say in Greece "πως σε βαφτισε ο παπάς" (lit. how the priest baptised you), which means that if the priest baptizes you as "Αναστάσης" that is what it will say on your birth certificate. Now certain priests refuse to baptise you under certain names (because they sound too "western" or "not very christian"). Αναστάσης is not one of them, Τάσος well maybe...
Of course there is the option of not being baptized (more and more people choose that nowadays). Then you can have any name you want...


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## TriglavNationalPark

MOD NOTE: I would just like to remind everyone to stay on-topic and limit your discussion to nicknames in _*BCS*_ (and other Slavic languages, if relevant).


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## Brainiac

@Αναστάσιος, Your nickname will be *Jež*, based on your avatar... 

Dejan Milenković - Bagzi
Milorad Ulemek - Legija
Ljubiša Buha - Čume
Aleksandar Milošević - Aca Kostur
Ljubo Ćesić - Rojs
Aleksandar Vučić - p***ousti

Too many of them.... we will never end it....


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## Tassos

I have to assume that the nicknames you are giving are declined as follows:

1)These in -e like neuter nouns in -e adding the syllable -et-

2)These in -o.... Here we have a situation... R. Alexander says "Those with a long rising accent (most of which are nicknames) are declined like feminines in -a, while those with a falling accent are declined like regular masculine nouns"
And gives: *Ranko, Ranka, Ranka, Ranku, Rankom, Ranko* but *Ivo, Ivu, Ive, Ivi, Ivom, Ivo*
Can someone explain to me the difference between the accents, because for me both sound the same (disyllabic words accented on the first syllable). 
And does this mean that all the nicknames in -o (Mato, Meho, Tito, Đuro, Ćelo etc) are declined like Ivo?

3)These in -a like feminine nouns in -a

Some more
Aleksandar Vuksanović - *Aca Lukas*
Dražen Dalipagić* - Praja*
Dragoslav Šekularac* - **Šeki*


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## VelikiMag

Ranko is not a nickname but a first name. Ivo is also a first name, though sometimes people whose name is Ivan or Ivica could informally be called Ivo.

You don't need to bother with accents here. Because the declension usually depends on region. In Montenegro names are always declined as masculine nouns, while in Serbia as feminine. In Croatia and Bosnia I'm not sure. For example Ivo, I would decline it like this: Ivo, Iva, Ivu, Iva, Ivo, Ivom, Ivu. In Serbia, it is declined in the same way as female name Iva. To my ear this sounds wrong.

When it comes to hypocorisms, they are also formed in a different way. In Montenegro, Aleksandar would be Aco, not Aca. There are plenty of such examples: Slobodan - Slobo/Sloba, Petar - Pero/Pera, Stevan - Stevo/Steva, etc. Names which end in -ko always have a masculine declension.

This thread dealt with the same problem.


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## Brainiac

VelikiMag said:


> For example Ivo, I would decline it like this: Ivo, Iva, Ivu, Iva, Ivo, Ivom, Ivu. In Serbia, it is declined in the same way as female name Iva. To my ear this sounds wrong.


*Ivo* and *Iva* don't have the same declination. I am confused... I would decline *Iva* like: Iva, Ive, Ivi, Ivu, Ivo/Iva, Ivom, Ivi. (Like *Eva*, "O Adamu i Ev*i*")
(Don't tell me I was declining my nickname wrongly  )

-*o* ending is typical for BiH and CG, I believe for Cro too.In Serbia, even the vocative case ending in -*o* sounds old-fashioned. (Peđa, hej Peđa instead of Peđo, like fem. nouns)


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## VelikiMag

Brainiac said:


> *Ivo* and *Iva* don't have the same declination.


That's right, their nominatives are indeed different! 



> (Don't tell me I was declining my nickname wrongly  )


You weren't. You were declining male name Ivo wrongly. 

Now seriously. When someone introduces himself as Aca, then I understand why it takes feminine declension. But when someone is called Ivo (like the Croatian president), then it sounds unnatural to me when his name is declined like a feminine noun (as it is in Serbian media). It is not incorrect, it just sounds wrong.



> -*o* ending is typical for BiH and CG, I believe for Cro too.In Serbia, even the vocative case ending in -*o* sounds old-fashioned. (Peđa, hej Peđa instead of Peđo, like fem. nouns)


Peđa will be Peđa everywhere. If the nominative was Peđo, then it would be the vocative as well. But I haven't heard of that. On the other hand, someone whose name is Nedeljko would be Neđo, so the vocative would also be Neđo.


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## itreius

VelikiMag said:


> You don't need to bother with accents here. Because the declension usually depends on region. In Montenegro names are always declined as masculine nouns, while in Serbia as feminine. In Croatia and Bosnia I'm not sure. For example Ivo, I would decline it like this: Ivo, Iva, Ivu, Iva, Ivo, Ivom, Ivu. In Serbia, it is declined in the same way as female name Iva. To my ear this sounds wrong.



Although both variants are in use in Croatia, depending on the region, I'd say that most people decline it just like its female counterpart Iva.
Googling for specific variants of "Ivo Josipović" _("Ive Josipovića"_ vs _"Iva Josipovića"_) shows that the first one is much more common than the latter.


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## DenisBiH

itreius said:


> Although both variants are in use in Croatia, depending on the region, I'd say that most people decline it just like its female counterpart Iva.
> Googling for specific variants of "Ivo Josipović" _("Ive Josipovića"_ vs _"Iva Josipovića"_) shows that the first one is much more common than the latter.



Would the version with "Iva Josipovića" be centered around Dubrovnik perhaps? 

I generally associate Ivo, Iva, Ivu... declension with Montenegro and eastern Herzegovina.

Anyway, these are the options we have mentioned so far (correct me if I'm wrong)

Ive, Ive, Ivi... - Dalmatia
Ivo, Ive, Ivi... - Bosnia-Herzegovina minus perhaps eastern Herzegovina, continental Croatia minus perhaps Zagorje
Jova, Jove, Jovi... (I don't know if masculine Iva exists in Serbia) - Serbia
Ivo, Iva, Ivu... - Montenegro, eastern Herzegovina, perhaps parts of Croatia

Any other options?


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## Anicetus

Tassos said:


> I have to assume that the nicknames you are giving are declined as follows:
> 
> 1)These in -e like neuter nouns in -e adding the syllable -et-



Once again, it depends on the region. Croatian standard, Dubrovnik and Dalmatia never add -et- to names (and I presume none of the dialects which decline _Ivo_ as a masculine noun do, though I don't really know for sure).



> 2)These in -o.... Here we have a situation... R. Alexander says "Those with a long rising accent (most of which are nicknames) are declined like feminines in -a, while those with a falling accent are declined like regular masculine nouns"
> Can someone explain to me the difference between the accents, because for me both sound the same (disyllabic words accented on the first syllable).



A rising tone means that the syllable after the stressed one has the highest pitch in the accentual unit, while a falling one means that one syllable is both stressed and has the highest pitch. However, I'd suggest you not to concern yourself with this yet. I'd imagine tones aren't easy to learn for people who don't have them in their mother tongue, and they aren't that important in BCMS anyway.




DenisBiH said:


> Would the version with "Iva Josipovića" be centered around Dubrovnik perhaps?



Yes.  As Veliki Mag has said for himself, declining _Ivo_ like _Iva_ sounds very odd in Dubrovnik, and the local declension is used even in formal contexts. A Google search for "Iva Josipovića" gives many news portal headlines from Dubrovnik and Montenegro. A rather strong sense of local patriotism in Dubrovnik certainly supports this as well.


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## DenisBiH

What's the correct form for the instrumental of Ivo m. - Ívom or Ívōm? For Iva f. only Ívōm sounds correct to me, but for Ivo m. both sound ok. Or is that perhaps related to the discussion of different declension types? I.e.:




NÍvoÍvoGÍvēÍvaDÍviÍvuAÍvuÍvaVȊvoȊvoI*Ívōm**Ívom*LÍviÍvu


VelikiMag, how do you pronounce the instrumental of Ivo?


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## Anicetus

DenisBiH said:


> What's the correct form for the instrumental of Ivo m. - Ívom or Ívōm? For Iva f. only Ívōm sounds correct to me, but for Ivo m. both sound ok. Or is that perhaps related to the discussion of different declension types?



I'd say it is. As far as I know, the masculine/neuter declension always has -om/-em, while nouns ending in -a and those declining like them always have -ōm.


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## VelikiMag

DenisBiH said:


> VelikiMag, how do you pronounce the instrumental of Ivo?


I say *Ívom*. That way I avoid the ambiguity with female Iva.


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## Brainiac

VelikiMag said:


> You weren't. You were declining male name Ivo wrongly.


But you declined male name Ivo (correctly, in the post above mine), not me. And you added - it's the same like Iva. That confused me. Ok, we showed the difference, no confusion anymore...

Note:
Oh, you wanted to say Ivo in Serbia is declined like Iva, but you would decline Ivo - like you wrote. I do decline Ivo like Iva too (difference is in the nominative, as you said, and I may add in the vocative case, depends on a region). But I didn't understand in that moment what you wanted to tell.


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## Tassos

We surely turned the thread on-topic again.  I'm just trying to catch up with all this activity...
@"Iva" (post #14)

"In Serbia, even the vocative case ending in -*o* sounds old-fashioned."

You mean for nicknames ending in -a not in general

@Denis (post #17)

"Ive, Ive, Ivi... - Dalmatia"

You mean that people in Dalmatia do not use Ivo as a name/nickname, they prefer Ive?

@Anicetus (post #18)

"However, I'd suggest you not to concern yourself with this yet."

Even if I would like to, I can't understand it till I hear it...

(sorry for not using quotes, there is a game starting in 2 minutes )
btw you all are certainly using a different case sequence than R. Alexander...


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> @Denis (post #17)
> 
> "Ive, Ive, Ivi... - Dalmatia"
> 
> You mean that people in Dalmatia do not use Ivo as a name/nickname, they prefer Ive?



Remember, Mat*e*, Ant*e*, Stip*e*; Ive is following the same pattern. Now I don't know if they would _exclusively _use Ive and _never _use Ivo, but Google certainly does give hits for Ive.

One more thing - I believe that in Dalmatia they tend to form _female _hypocorisms in -e as well; what would be _Mato i Kata_ in Bosnia could be _Mate i Kate _in Dalmatia. This is actually more widespread than Dalmatia; my mother who is from Bosanska Krajina uses the same -e forms for women (sometimes). Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if in Dalmatia Ive could stand _both _for Ivo/Ivan and Iva/Ivana. Anicetus?



Tassos said:


> btw you all are certainly using a different case sequence than R. Alexander...



Back when I was in school, we always used NGDAVIL, and I believe that's still the sequence used in Bosnian linguistics.


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## itreius

Speaking of various forms of Ivo/Mate/etc., some parts of Central Croatia use _Iva_ as the colloquial variant of _Ivo_ (yes, as a male name), although all those people will officially have their name as either _Ivo_ or _Ivan_. Similarly, the hypocorism for Stjepan (Štef) is often transformed into _Števa_ in those same places.


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## DenisBiH

itreius said:


> Speaking of various forms of Ivo/Mate/etc., some parts of Central Croatia use _Iva_ as the colloquial variant of _Ivo_ (yes, as a male name), although all those people will officially have their name as either _Ivo_ or _Ivan_. Similarly, the hypocorism for Stjepan (Štef) is often transformed into _Števa_ in those same places.



This is in Kajkavian areas? How do they decline those -a forms? Iva, Ive, Ivi or...?


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## Anicetus

DenisBiH said:


> One more thing - I believe that in Dalmatia they tend to form _female _hypocorisms in -e as well; what would be _Mato i Kata_ in Bosnia could be _Mate i Kate _in Dalmatia. This is actually more widespread than Dalmatia; my mother who is from Bosanska Krajina uses the same -e forms for women (sometimes). Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised if in Dalmatia Ive could stand _both _for Ivo/Ivan and Iva/Ivana. Anicetus?



Exactly, I was just about to write that.  Note that they're regularly declined just like any female name, even though they don't end in -a in nominative. They also have the long rising accent in all cases except vocative, where it is falling.

I think _Ivo_ is possible (as a male name, of course) in Dalmatia too.




Tassos said:


> btw you all are certainly using a different case sequence than R. Alexander...



And what sequence does he use? The traditional and most commonly used one in Croatia is N G D A V L I, even though a new order has recently been introduced into elementary school books: N A G D L I V, as it was brought up on this forum about two months ago. I guess the new one is based on frequency of usage of certain cases.


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## VelikiMag

DenisBiH said:


> Back when I was in school, we always used NGDAVIL


+1

There might be a reason why they have different order in foreign literature. I see in Tassos' post that accusative comes second. This makes sense, because in most sentences, including simple ones, you need a direct object. So it's probably useful for students to learn accusative case just after nominative. Also, the vocative is in the last place, which again makes sense as it is the least used one.
But anyway, I think it is better to stick to our 'traditional' order.


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## itreius

DenisBiH said:


> This is in Kajkavian areas? How do they decline those -a forms? Iva, Ive, Ivi or...?



Yes, I've heard it in rural Kajkavian areas and predominantly among older folk. The declination pattern for "Iva" went like this

N Iva
G Ive
D Ive
A Ivu
I Ivu
L Ive

Younger people seem to use the Štokavian paradigm, so I'm assuming they'd probably just decline it as if it were Ivo (Iv_a_, but Ive, Ivi, Ivu, Ivom, Ivi).


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## Brainiac

Tassos said:


> @"Iva" (post #14) "In Serbia, even the vocative case ending in -*o* sounds old-fashioned. You mean for nicknames ending in -a not in general"



I don't (dare to) generalize anything.

Pera is _Hej Pero_. 
Peca is _Hej Peco_.
Aca is _Hej Aco_. (_Aca_ - "snobbish")
Duja - ask him 
Vlada - _Hej Vlado_
Ždera (funny nickname!) is _Hej Ždero_. 
Saša is _Hej Saša _(Sale)
Gara is _Hej Gare_, usually. I would say that _Gare_, vocative, became nominative, so there is _Gare_ nickname too.

I called one Peđa _Peđo_, he got offended and corrected me: "Peđa!!! Shall I call you Ivano?!" (But I heard that many people do call Peđa _Peđo_, because _Peđa_ like the vocative may sound ....kinda snobbish, to some people)

The vocative case of female names usually ends in -a, so it's the same like the nominative case. If you call Marija _Marijo_, it sounds "seljački" . 
(S Ivu, s biciklu etc. - you may hear among country folks, but it "para uši", it's regarded as incorrect.)

The male names that ends in -a decline like female names, for example _Andrija_, _Mateja, Nikola._..


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## DenisBiH

Brainiac said:


> If you call Marija _Marijo_, it sounds "seljački" .



Agreed, _Marijo _sounds a bit odd. However, I'm not sure what the proper vocative form is in the standard(s). The Croatian version of Hail Mary starts with _Zdravo, Marij*o*..._

Anyway, what is the proper vocative for Iva f.? Íva or Ȋvo?

EDIT:
According to this, Marijo is a must in standard Croatian:


> U kajkavskome narječju i zagrebačkome govoru česta je uporaba nominativa umjesto vokativa što je nepravilno u standardnom hrvatskom jeziku u kojem se za dozive mora koristiti vokativ.
> 
> _Marija, donesi mi knjigu!_ - _Marijo, donesi mi knjigu!_


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## Anicetus

DenisBiH said:


> According to this, Marijo is a must in standard Croatian:



Er, I wouldn't trust everything I read on Wikipedia. _Marijo_ is still considered standard, but so is the much more common alternative _Marija_. They gave the wrong example, vocative is necessary for most male names (_Ivan, donesi mi knjigu!_ really does "scrape my ear"), both female and male names with the suffix with the suffix -ica and common nouns. The vocative form _Ivo_ (and vocative forms with -o for two-syllable female nouns with a long rising accent which end in -a in general) does sound less unusual than _Marijo_, but _Iva_ (this form is identical to nominative, the accent doesn't become falling as with names in -e) is certainly used for vocative as well. However, I haven't been able to find a trustworthy answer on whether _Iva_ as vocative is standard or not.


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## Brainiac

DenisBiH said:


> Anyway, what is the proper vocative for Iva f.? Íva or Ȋvo?



I guess Iva [I:va] is more frequent, in addressing in a conversation.

I'll tell you for the South Serbia, but I believe it's "in" now  - It's not Iva nor Ivo, it's *Ivi *
 (And the truth is that nicknames for Ivana is _Ina _or _Ika_. Mine is _Ina_ actually, but elder persons use _Iva._)
_Iva_ I heard frequently from some persons (elder again) from Vojvodina. 
I also heard some call Katarina _Kato_, which is a nickname for a grandma now. Kata would be _Hej Kata_. Hej Kato [Ka-to:] is when you joke and imitate "calling", like in the film _Ko to tamo peva_ - _Deco-ooo-oo..... _


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## Tassos

Anicetus said:


> And what sequence does *s*he use?  The traditional and most commonly used one in Croatia is N G D A V L I, even though a new order has recently been introduced into elementary school books: N A G D L I V, as it was brought up on this forum about two months ago. I guess the new one is based on frequency of usage of certain cases.



N A G DL I V (the book was written in 2005)



VelikiMag said:


> This makes sense, because in most sentences, including simple ones, you  need a direct object. So it's probably useful for students to learn  accusative case just after nominative. Also, the vocative is in the last  place, which again makes sense as it is the least used one.



You are probably right, because for example in Greek schools and for natives we also use G second (so its NGAV for modern Greek and NGDAV for Ancient Greek)



Brainiac said:


> If you call Marija _Marijo_, it sounds "seljački" .
> (S Ivu, s biciklu etc. - you may hear among country folks, but it "para uši", it's regarded as incorrect.)



"Marijo, Majko Božija,
da li vidiš šta rade sa tvojom decom?" lyric by Zoran Kostić - *Cane* 

(I will probably start a new thread about the vocative)



Brainiac said:


> like in the film _Ko to tamo peva_ - _Deco-ooo-oo..... _



Totally off-topic of course but (if the moderators allow it) can someone explain to me why this is funny (I tata bi sine - that, I totally get it )


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## Brainiac

Tassos said:


> "Marijo, Majko Božija,
> da li vidiš šta rade sa tvojom decom?" lyric by Zoran Kostić - *Cane*



Yes, right. But try to call Marija _Marijo_ here, you'll see the reaction 



Tassos said:


> _Deco-ooo-oo.....
> _Totally off-topic of course but (if the moderators allow it) can someone explain to me why this is funny (I tata bi sine - that, I totally get it )


Vokativ u ruralnoj sredini - Dozivanje na njivi
Visit a village here, to see how people speak  



			
				Anicetus said:
			
		

> The traditional and most commonly used one in Croatia is N G D A V L I,  even though a new order has recently been introduced into elementary  school books: N A G D L I V, as it was brought up on this forum about  two months ago. I guess the new one is based on frequency of usage of  certain cases.



It was my post...  I remember, I was surprised when I found it in Wiki Cro.


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## Anicetus

Tassos said:


> "Marijo, Majko Božija,
> da li vidiš šta rade sa tvojom decom?" lyric by Zoran Kostić - *Cane*



He's actually citing the prayer _Zdravo Marijo_ -- Hail Mary -- in the first line. Denis linked to it just a few posts above.




Brainiac said:


> It was my post...  I remember, I was surprised when I found it in Wiki Cro.



Yes, I remember it was you.


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## VelikiMag

Tassos said:


> Totally off-topic of course but (if the moderators allow it) can someone explain to me why this is funny (I tata bi sine - that, I totally get it )


It is funny that an old, sick-looking dwarf has four giant sons with axes. Who would have expected that?


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## Duya

Brainiac said:


> I don't (dare to) generalize anything.
> 
> Pera is _Hej Pero_.
> Peca is _Hej Peco_.
> Aca is _Hej Aco_. (_Aca_ - "snobbish")
> Duja - ask him
> Vlada - _Hej Vlado_
> Ždera (funny nickname!) is _Hej Ždero_.
> Saša is _Hej Saša _(Sale)
> Gara is _Hej Gare_, usually. I would say that _Gare_, vocative, became nominative, so there is _Gare_ nickname too.
> 
> I called one Peđa _Peđo_, he got offended and corrected me: "Peđa!!! Shall I call you Ivano?!" (But I heard that many people do call Peđa _Peđo_, because _Peđa_ like the vocative may sound ....kinda snobbish, to some people)



Actually, we even have a rule for this.  Although I know it by heart only for 2-syllable names/hypocorisms; I would have to consult the fine literature for more general ones:

*Bisyllabic names ending in -a receive -o in vocative only if they have long rising accent (and change its type to long falling); otherwise, they retain -a.*

So we have:
Péraȇro, Pécaȇco, Áca:Ȃco, Ždéra:Ždȇro, Vláda:Vlȃdo, Mája:Mȃjo and yes, Dúja: Dȗjo 
but:
Sȁša:Sȁša, Ȁna:Ȁna, Pȅđaȅđa, Mȋrna:Mȋrna, etc.

There exists a nickname Péđa, more common in western Serbia, so those ones consequently get called Pȇđo.

The above rule only holds for names; common nouns do not obey it (zèmlja:zȅmljo, mȃjka:mȃjko, kȉša:kȉšo).


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## Tassos

I quote R. Alexander's book (I don't know if its fine literature but for me it's the ONLY literature):

*Names of two syllables (female and male) take the ending -o only if the root vowel is long rising. Unless they end in -ica, all other names use the nominative form; this applies to certain terms denoting relatives as well.*

As examples she gives: *Nada-Nado, Mara-Maro, Mića-Mićo* but *Vesna-Vesna* and *tetka-tetka*

Found a couple more

*Dragan Kojić - Keba
**Dušan Kojić - Koja
**Ivan "Ivica" Vdović* aka *VD *(is this pronounced *vid*?)
*Dragomir Mihajlović - Gagi
Srđan Gojković - Gile*
*Srđan Todorović - **Žika
Ivan Stančić - Piko*
*Safet Sušić - Pape
**Mirsad Baljić - Žvaka *(apparently he was always chewing gum )

In a more general note if someone looks in this thread from the very beginning there's one curious thing. Among all the nicknamed "famous" people there is only *one* female . Now if I think very carefully I can only add to that *Svetlana Ražnatović - Ceca, **Svetlana Aleksić - Seka, *and of course* Fahreta Jahić - Lepa Brena.* Now as our own* Ivana Brainiac - Iva *proves, nicknaming is indeed alive and well for everyday females (not that it's out of the question that she will become famous one day ) but I get the feeling it is not such a common practice for famous females. Am I right and if yes, what do you think is the reason for this?


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> In a more general note if someone looks in this thread from the very beginning there's one curious thing. Among all the nicknamed "famous" people there is only *one* female . Now if I think very carefully I can only add to that *Svetlana Ražnatović - Ceca, **Svetlana Aleksić - Seka, *and of course* Fahreta Jahić - Lepa Brena.* Now as our own* Ivana Brainiac - Iva *proves, nicknaming is indeed alive and well for everyday females (not that it's out of the question that she will become famous one day ) but I get the feeling it is not such a common practice for famous females. Am I right and if yes, what do you think is the reason for this?



You, my dear man, are *extremely *good.  I was thinking about mentioning the same thing a few days back. Everyday women do indeed often have nicknames, but I indeed do not know of many famous women with a (famous) nickname. Perhaps they have nicknames but journalists etc. don't consider it entirely appropriate to mention those for women?

There is also:
Severina Vučković Seve
Stojanka Novaković Stoja

And I have a vague recollection of a famous Snežana with the nickname Sneki, but I can't recall who exactly.


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## Tassos

*Snežana Babić - Sneki*


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> *Snežana Babić - Sneki*



There you go, perhaps she is the one. There is also

Tatjana Matejaš Tajči, today Tajči Cameron it seems

Also,

Izeta Selimović Beba, but everyone knows her as Beba Selimović, I had to Google to find her real name.


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## Anicetus

Then there's Jadranka Kosor - Jaca, the former prime minister of Croatia. Though this one is supposed to be slightly derogatory.


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## DenisBiH

There is also

Senada Topčagić - Nada 

but I'm not sure if this is only a nickname or a stage name/name change such as with Zilha Bajraktarević - Silvana Armenulić. And reading that second article also gives

Lepa Lukić, born Lepava Mušović (first time I hear the name Lepava, other sources give Leposava)

And this site gives some more, I'll post both male and female ones due to the overwhelming coolness of some of those nicknames / stage names.  Other foreror, please correct any that are incorrect. Women are in bold.

Aleksandar Vuksanović – Aca Lukas
Hamit Đogaj – Đole Đogani
Gazmen Ðogaj –Gagy Funky G
Bekrim Đogaj  – Baki B3
Čedomir Rajačić  – Čeda Čvorak
Vladan Aksentijević – Ajs Nigrutin
Ðorde Miljenović -  Sky Wikler
*Dragana Šarić -  Bebi Dol
Rada Adžić – Dara Bubamara*
*Fahreta Jahić – Lepa Brena
Zilha Barjaktarević – Silvana Armenulić
Leposava Musović – Lepa Lukić
Marijana Radovanović – Maja Marijana*
*Senada Topčagić – Nada Topčagić*
Behljulj Behljulji – Beki Bekić
*Gordana-Nadežda Polić – Ana Bekuta
Saška Snežana Berić – Ekstra Nena*
Andrija Ojdanić – Era Ojdanić
Bojan Jovanovski – Boki 13
*Biljana Bosiljčić – Buba Miranović*
Antonije Pušić – Rambo Amadeus
Nenad Janković – Dr Nele Karajlić


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## Tassos

And my personal alltime favorite artist of the ex-yu scene *Margita Stefanović - Magi.
*Still you can see that the female nicknames are not only fewer but significantly less imaginative. Just the "typical" nickname, based on the first name. While for the men we have things like *Branislav Petrović - Banana *or *Marino Pelajić - Baraccuda* (both musicians for novi val bands Electrcni Orgazam and Film respectively)


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> And my personal alltime favorite artist of the ex-yu scene *Margita Stefanović - Magi.
> *Still you can see that the female nicknames are not only fewer but significantly less imaginative. Just the "typical" nickname, based on the first name. While for the men we have things like *Branislav Petrović - Banana *or *Marino Pelajić - Baraccuda* (both musicians for novi val bands Electrcni Orgazam and Film respectively)




Well, Dara Bubamara is pretty imaginative.  Radojka Adžić > Rada Adžić > Dara Bubamara.

And another one:

Nives Drpić (born Zeljković) - Nives Celzijus but again, this is more a stage name than a "pure" nickname

And for men another interesting one:

Davorin Popović - Pimpek


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## Tassos

First let me say that I made the comment about female nicknames being  "less imaginative" before you updated your post with the *big list*. 
Still for me more than half of the names of the females in that list will qualify more as a "stage name" than a typical nickname. Probably someone (a manager maybe) thought that "you can't make a career" with a name like Leposava Musović or Biljana Bosiljčić or whatever and just changed it. These are not the nicknames they used in their everyday life or something based on their physical appearence or a habit or something, it's just more "artificial".

Btw I think it's great that in Sarajevo you have monuments for prominent *rock* musicians also (not only the classicals as in most places)


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## DenisBiH

Tassos said:


> Still for me more than half of the names of the females in that list will qualify more as a "stage name" than a typical nickname. Probably someone (a manager maybe) thought that "you can't make a career" with a name like Leposava Musović or Biljana Bosiljčić or whatever and just changed it. These are not the nicknames they used in their everyday life or something based on their physical appearence or a habit or something, it's just more "artificial".



Yes, I guess you're right.

Going back to nicknames of everyday women, a friend of mine used to call his two female classmates (in highschool) *Nikolica i prikolica* on account of them constantly being seen together. Not sure if that qualifies as a nickname since it refers to two people at the same time, but it makes me laugh every time.


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## Brainiac

OMG, again turbo-folk!
(Hej, umetnička imena se ne računaju  "Ma sve je to zbog para" rekli bi neki )

Emir Kusturica - *Nemanja *Kusturica ("najpoznatiji Bosanac iz svijeta šou biznisa" postao pravoslavac , prezime dedova: *Babić*)
Senada Krgo - *Sandra* Krgo - *Soldo* (prešla u katoličanstvo)
Bajram Demić  - *Zvonko Marić* (tokom rata, "iz praktičnih razloga")
Damir Mirković - *Abdulkerim *(razlog nepoznat)

(Lepa je od Leposava)

Hamit Đogaj – *Djole *Djogani
Gazmen Ðogaj – *Gagi* (Funky G)
Bekrim Đogaj  – *Baki* B3
Aca Seltik  -  Aleksandar *Petrović*
Bube *Miranović*, devojačko - udala, postala Biljana *Bosiljčić*, pa *Bube* Miranović

Milica Isaković - Milica *Milša
*Suzana Zlatanović - *Luna Lu
*Vesna Jugović - Vesna *Da Vinča *
Jelena Petrović - Jelena *Trompčinska*, pa Jelena *Tinska
*
(Koga interesuje: "Za promenu ličnog imena potrebno je najmanje 1.210 dinara." )


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## DenisBiH

Brainiac said:


> Emir Kusturica - *Nemanja *Kusturica ("najpoznatiji Bosanac iz svijeta šou biznisa" postao pravoslavac , prezime dedova: *Babić*)



But note that this is his real name now, not stage name or nick name. Although for some reason people (as in media) still refer to him as Emir.


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## TriglavNationalPark

MOD NOTE: I would just like to remind everyone to focus on *the general patterns of nickname formation in BCS* and avoid lists of possibly atypical examples (i.e. celebrities who adopt stage names or permanently change their names).


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