# Wrapping, envelope, container



## ThomasK

I consider these three linked functionally (there might be more that I do not see now), but I wonder whether you have "simple" (non-derived) names/terms for those things, in my view collective terms and fairly essential concepts.

In English at least 'wrap' is a '"simple" word', whereas the others are not (_con-tain-er, en-velope_).

In Dutch we have :
- *ver-pakk-ing* (something like 'packing', but a derivation, FRA 'emballage'), like for presents or maybe for things we can buy at the shop (butter, coffee, chocolate ...)
- *wikkel* is not common, is "simple", but would be like the paper we use to _wikkelen_ (to envelop) something in ; BTW,_ont-wikkelen_ is a perfect equivalent of _'de-velop'_, but only in a figurative sense
- a *houder* (lit. holder) is not very common, but would be something like a container, but fairly strong material (cigarette holder for example)
- *om-hul-sel* would be like the 'round-wrapp-ing' material (some people will say that the body is the _omhulsel_ of the soul, or a mussel's shell is the _omhulsel_) ; the verb _hullen_ is like 'to shroud', only fig. (whereas _verhullen_ is 'to hide', and _ont_-_hullen_ is 'to unveil')

Interesting to note perhaps: when I look up translations of 'omhulsel' at en.bab.la, I get all kinds of things:

              '(empty) vessel', 'outer case', 'envelope',        *vs*. 'coating' (for GGOs), 'covering', 'shelter'

In the first cases the words refer to things that only consist of a wrapping, but have no content, or no substance (empty _omhulsels_).


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## ger4

In German, most of these words are compounds as well (_Ver-pack-ung, Be-hält-er, Be-hält-nis, Ein-wickel-papier _etc...) but apart from that there is a simple, non-derived noun: _*Hülle*_ ('envelope, wrapper, wrapping, cover, holder [as in ticket holder]' etc) which can also be used in a figurative sense - _der Körper _[the body]_ ist _[is]_ die Hülle der Seele_ [of the soul], _die Hülle des Geistes_ [of the mind, of the spirit].

According to dwds.de, _Hülle_ is derived from the verb _*hüllen *_and an assumed root _*kêl_:
[Vb=verb, ahd.=Old High German, mhd=Middle High German, mnd.=Middle Low German, asächs.=Old Saxon, aengl=Old English, anord=Old Nordic, schwed.=Swedish]


> *hüllen* Vb. ‘rundum bedecken, einpacken, verbergen’ ['to cover, to conceal, to wrap in, to veil etc'] ahd. _hullen_ (9./10. Jh. [Jh.=century]; vgl. _bihullen_, 8. Jh.), mhd.  mnd. _hüllen_, asächs. _bihullian_, aengl. _hylian_, mnl. nl. _hullen_, anord. _hylja_, schwed. _hölja _[...]_ <_ ie. _*k̑el-_ ‘bergen, verhüllen’. ['to veil, to mantle, to conceal etc']
> [source]


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## ThomasK

What would be the most common practical collective nouns in German in this context, Holger? I guess: _Verpackung(en),_ any others?


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## ger4

Apart from the nouns _Verpackung(en)_, there are some nouns that can be translated as 'container' or 'vessel' (but not in the sense of 'ship'): _Behälter_ (singular=plural), _Behältnis(se)_, _Gefäß(e). Gefäße is_ mainly used for fluids and can be natural as well (_Blutgefäße_ - 'blood vessels'). The noun _Container_ is only used for large containers in German.


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## ThomasK

I suppose that "in the end" we do not use the terms in my thread so often. I guess they're too abstract. Now I'd like to find out whether any of the other languages bring together some of those concepts into one word.


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## Dymn

In Catalan:
- Wrapping (present): _*paper d'embolicar *_'paper of wrapping', from Latin _involvicare_, from _involvere, in + volvere _'to roll'
- Wrapping (present): _*paper d'embalar *_'paper of wrapping', from _en + bala_
- Wrapping (something else): _*embolcall*_, from _embolcar_, from Latin _involvicare*
- _Wrapping (something else): _*envoltori*_, from Spanish _envoltorio?_, from _envuelto_, past participle of _envolver_, from Latin _involvere_
- Wrapping (something else): _*embalatge*_, from _embalar, en + bala_
- Wrapping (something else): _*envàs*_, from _en + vas _'vessel'
- Envelope (letter): _*sobre*_, from _sobre _'on, above, about'
- Container: _*contenidor*_, obviously a compound

* Interesting how Latin _involvere _gave such a similar doublet (_embolicar _and _embolcar_). Nowadays _embolcar _has given way to _embolcallar_.

In a nutshell, no simple terms . In Spanish it's more or less the same (_papel de envolver, envoltorio, embalaje, envase, sobre, contenedor..._).


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## ThomasK

I suppose the different specific containers were used before the need was felt for a collective noun. But thanks!


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Wrap (verb): *«τυλίγω»* [tiˈliɣo] or *«περιτυλίγω»* [peɾitiˈliɣo] (the latter is connected mostly with wrapping up gifts or things we can buy at the shop).
*«Τυλίγω»* [tiˈliɣo] < Classical denominative v. *«τυλίσσω» tŭlíssō* --> _to make into a bulge, twine into a ball, swathe (up)_ < Classical fem. noun *«τύλη» túlē* --> _bulge, callosity, pad, cushion_ (with obscure etymology).
Wrap (noun): *«Περιτύλιγμα»* [peɾiˈtiliɣma] (neut.).
Envelope (verb): *«Περιβάλλω»* [peɾiˈvalo] < Classical v. *«περιβάλλω» pĕrĭbállō* --> _to throw round, throw about, throw over, put on, put over, surround, encompass with_ < compound; prefix, preposition, and adverb *«περὶ» pĕrì* (prep.) & *«πέρῐ» pérĭ* (adv.) --> _around, round, excessively, quite, by, at, concerning_ (PIE *per- _to cross, pass_ cf Skt. परि (pári), _around_; Av. pairi- _around, about_; Lat. per) + Classical v. *«βάλλω» bállō* --> _to throw, hit by throwing_ (PIE *gʷelh₁- _to hit by throwing_ with no certain cognates in other IE languages).
Envelope (noun):
A/ *«Περίβλημα»* [peˈɾivlima] (neut.) < Classical neut. noun *«περίβλημα» pĕríblēmă* --> _garment, encasement, integument_ < compound; prefix, preposition, and adverb *«περὶ» pĕrì* & *«πέρῐ» pérĭ* (see above) + deverbal Classical neut. noun *«βλῆμᾰ» blêmă* --> _throw, cast, shot, coverlet_ < Classical v. *«βάλλω» bállō* (see above).
B/ *«Φάκελ(λ)ος»* [ˈfacelos] (masc.) (both spellings are equally used) < Classical masc. noun *«φάκελ(λ)ος» pʰákĕllŏs* or *pʰákĕlŏs* --> _bundle_ (with obscure etymology). *«Φάκελ(λ)ος»* [ˈfacelos] is the generic name of mail envelope. One of its derivatives is the infamous *«φακελ(λ)άκι»* [faceˈlaci] (neut. diminutive).
Container:
A/ *«Δοχείο»* [ðoˈçi.o] (neut.) < Classical deverbal neut. noun *«δοχεῖον» dŏkʰeîŏn* (Ionic *«δοχήϊον» dŏkʰḗion*) --> _ink-holder_, later _container in general_ < Classical deponent v. *«δέχομαι» dékʰŏmai* --> _to take, accept, receive_ (PIE *deḱ- _to take, accept_ cf Lat. decēre).
B/ *«Περιέκτης»* [peɾiˈektis] (masc.) < Koine deverbal masc. noun *«περιέκτης» pĕrĭéktēs* --> _any man-made portable container_ < Classical v. *«περιέχω» pĕrĭékʰō* --> _to contain, encompass, surround, embrace_ < compound; prefix, preposition, and adverb *«περὶ» pĕrì* & *«πέρῐ» pérĭ* (see earlier) + Classical v. *«ἔχω» ékʰō* --> _to possess, retain, have_ (PIE *seǵʰ- _to hold, have_ cf Skt. सहते (sahate), _to bear, endure, tolerate_, सहस् (sáhas), _force, power, victory_; Proto-Germanic *segaz > Ger. Sieg, Eng. sig, Dt. zege, Isl. sigur, Nor. sier (Bokmål)/siger (Nynorsk), Swe. seger, D. sejr).
C/ *«Εμπορευματοκιβώτιο»* [emboɾevmatociˈvoti.o] (neut.) --> _intermodal container_ < MoGr construction, a compound; neut. noun *«εμπόρευμα»* [emˈborevma] < Classical neut. noun *«ἐμπόρευμα» ĕmpóreumă** --> _merchandise_ + Classical neut. diminutive *«κιβώτιον» kĭbṓtiŏn* of fem. noun *«κιβωτός» kĭbōtós* --> _wooden chest, box, cupboard, Noah's ark (LXX)_ with obscure etymology.
A is the generic name, B is learned, C is rarely used, the tranliterated *«κοντέϊνερ»* [konˈte.iner] (neut.) is preferred.

***Hypostasis of *«ἐν πόρῳ (ὤν)» ĕn pórǭ (ṓn)* --> _(being) in transit_: adverb and preposition *«ἐν» ĕn* --> _in, within_ (PIE *h₁en(i)- _in_ cf Lat. in, Proto-Germanic *in) + Classical deverbal masc. noun *«πόρος» pórŏs* --> _passage, ford_ < Classical v. *«πείρω» peírō* --> _to perforate, pierce, pervade_ (PIE *per- _to cross, pass_ cf Skt. परि (pári), _around_; Av. pairi- _around, about_; Lat. per)


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## ThomasK

So at least you would have one word that is "simple", i.e. /*fakelos*/, but could it be that /fakelos/ is some kind of a metaphor, in the sense that the original meaning had nothing to do with envelopes, only with bundles ? The /*doçio/* and the /*periektis/* seem like derivations of the verb, both with a different stem to some extent. Still, I suppose you would call it a derivation _(our older derivations work that way too: ablaut)./_
The */peri-/* seems logical (we have 'om-', something like round, as in 'omhulsel'). Yet, it does not work like that in Romanic languages, I think: I cannot imagine containers with 'peri-' or 'circum-'.

Thanks for the two cultural hints, very interesting. Could you use */kibotos/* in some broader way than just chest? Something like 'vessel', 'cup', or... ?

Would you say that one of those  can be used in a very broad sense? I think our _*verpakking*_ has developed in such a way. _'Verpakken'_ meant wrapping, but now the _verpakking_ has become a key term for any kind of container/wrapping for food, I'd say... IN English it might be '*container'*.

Last question: do you spontaneously consider all/some of them linked semantically? _[Feel free not to answer all of these questions!]_


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## ThomasK

Holger2014 said:


> Apart from the nouns _Verpackung(en)_, there are some nouns that can be translated as 'container' or 'vessel' (but not in the sense of 'ship'): _Behälter_ (singular=plural), _Behältnis(se)_, _Gefäß(e). *Gefäße* is_ mainly used for fluids and can be natural as well (_Blutgefäße_ - 'blood vessels'). The noun _Container_ is only used for large containers in German.


I now realize that _*vat*_ is a word we now only use for beer or oil (barrel, ...) - it resembles _Gefaß_ in German - , whereas it could be used for any kind of container in the kitchen; we still say 'de vaat doen', doing the dishes, thereby suggesting we mainly washed different kinds of containers. So it used to have a broader meaning, and thus was an "simple" word for 'container', long time ago...


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## apmoy70

ThomasK said:


> So at least you would have one word that is "simple", i.e. /*fakelos*/, but could it be that /fakelos/ is some kind of a metaphor, in the sense that the original meaning had nothing to do with envelopes, only with bundles ?


In MoGr «φάκελος» is strictly an envelope, it has nothing to do with the ancient meaning of bundle (none so ever), the ancient meaning has been completely lost.


ThomasK said:


> The /*doçio/* and the /*periektis/* seem like derivations of the verb, both with a different stem to some extent. Still, I suppose you would call it a derivation _(our older derivations work that way too: ablaut)./_
> The */peri-/* seems logical (we have 'om-', something like round, as in 'omhulsel'). Yet, it does not work like that in Romanic languages, I think: I cannot imagine containers with 'peri-' or 'circum-'.


Well, as I've said they're deverbals, nouns deriving form verbs


ThomasK said:


> Thanks for the two cultural hints, very interesting. Could you use */kibotos/* in some broader way than just chest? Something like 'vessel', 'cup', or... ?


«Κιβωτός» is used only in connection to the Old Testament (in the LXX Koine Greek translation) and is reserved either for Noah's ark «Κιβωτός τοῦ Νῶε» or for the Jewish ark of covenant «Κιβωτός τῆς Διαθήκης». It has no other use outside religion. Its diminutive however, the neut. *«κιβώτιο»* [ciˈvo.ti.o] < ByzGr *«κιβώτιον» kibṓtion* describes the shipping crate or the wooden crate in general 


ThomasK said:


> Would you say that one of those  can be used in a very broad sense? I think our _*verpakking*_ has developed in such a way. _'Verpakken'_ meant wrapping, but now the _verpakking_ has become a key term for any kind of container/wrapping for food, I'd say... IN English it might be '*container'*.


*«Δοχείο»* [ðoˈçi.o] (neut.) can be used in a very broad sense.


ThomasK said:


> Last question: do you spontaneously consider all/some of them linked semantically? _[Feel free not to answer all of these questions!]_


Yes they're definitely linked (semantically).


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## ThomasK

I see, thanks for the information! I just happened to find out that your /kibytio/ (and /kytos/?)  has a Latin equivalent in all *cyto*-words (_cyto-plasm_)!



Holger2014 said:


> Apart from the nouns _Verpackung(en)_, there are some nouns that can be translated as 'container' or 'vessel' (but not in the sense of 'ship'): *Behälter (singular=plural), Behältnis(se), *_*Gefäß(e).* Gefäße is_ mainly used for fluids and can be natural as well (_Blutgefäße_ - 'blood vessels'). The noun _Container_ is only used for large containers in German.


I suddenly realize - when checking the meaning at uitmuntend.de, and the Wikipedia page referring to _Behälter_, that your words are way more comprehensive than our words like _houder_, etc. German seems to use more of these "container words" (collective nouns...) than we do!


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## ger4

ThomasK said:


> I now realize that _*vat*_ is a word we now only use for beer or oil (barrel, ...) - it resembles _Gefäß_ in German - , whereas it could be used for any kind of container in the kitchen; we still say 'de vaat doen', doing the dishes, thereby suggesting we mainly washed different kinds of containers. So it used to have a broader meaning, and thus was an "simple" word for 'container', long time ago...


_*Vat*_ reminds me of another noun I forgot to mention: _*Fass*_ ('barrel') which used to have a much broader meaning (perhaps a parallel development in German and Dutch), according to dwds.de:


> mhd. _vaʒ_ ‘Gefäß, Behältnis, Schrein, Gerät’, asächs. _fat_, mnd. mnl. nl. _vat_, aengl. _fæt_, engl. _vat _[...] germ. _*fata- _


_mhd._ = Middle High German | _Gefäß, Behältnis_ ~ container | _Gerät_ = tool | _asächs._ = Old Saxon | _nl._ = Dutch | _aengl._ = Old English | germ. = Germanic
(a spelling reform has replaced _-ß-_ by _-ss-_ after short vowels - as in _Faß, _old_ > Fass, _new - but kept after long vowels - as in _Gefäß_)  

The verb _fassen_ can also be translated as 'to contain', apparently having 'preserved' the older, broader meaning of _Fass_


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## ThomasK

You are quite right: _vatten_ has or had the same meaning in Dutch, I think we use it mainly figuratively for understanding (_bevattingsvermogen_, capacity to understand. But the old meaning is still in _vat_ and _handvat_ (like with a bike, for holding the steering wheel).


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## ThomasK

ThomasK said:


> I now realize that _*vat*_ is a word we now only use for beer or oil (barrel, ...) - it resembles _Gefaß_ in German - , whereas it could be used for any kind of container in the kitchen; we still say 'de vaat doen', doing the dishes, thereby suggesting we mainly washed different kinds of containers. So it used to have a broader meaning, and thus was an "simple" word for 'container', long time ago...


While doing some more research, I come to realize that _*une vase*_ in French has the same root, and that especially the English word *vessel* is extremely often used to refer to all kinds of holders/ containers. _(Just look for 'vessel' at etymonline.com, though of course the otherhalf refers to ships...) 

BTW: *bouteilles* and bottles _are containers, as you know. But did you that the _bouteillers_ used to carry bottles and cups, and then became...  butlers (just like horsegrooms who turned into  marshals [mare-_skakhaz_] ;-)...


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## ilocas2

Czech:

*balit* - to wrap, to pack

many derived verbs with prefixes - obalit, ubalit, zabalit etc., many nouns with this root etc.

According to Czech etymological dictionary it exists only in Czech among Slavic languages. (it exists in Slovak, but this is usually not mentioned in this dictionary)

Etymologically it's being explained from _obvalit_ (ob-valit ~ around-roll) that changed to _obalit_ and other verbs derived from this. These verbs spread under influence of German verb _ballen_.


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## ThomasK

Are you suggesting that with (from ?) one word you can derive lots of container names? What do the prefixes suggest then? Wrap/roll-around, as you suggest yourself, wrap-out, wrap(-in)? Do you have that word for for example a trash can, an envelope, a container, a box? -- The link with German ballen might be interesting too.


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## ilocas2

I'm sorry but I'm not able to explain in English all meanings of these verbs. It's just too complicated and there are lots of idiomatic different meanings etc., the same for nouns, and yes, envelope is derived from it - *obálka*


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## ThomasK

I think I understand, I'll have a look myself. But it might be quite interesting. It does imply that Czech (or Slavic languages) has (have) more container words/ collective nouns, I guess. Would you have less concrete containers like _chest, case, container, box_, etc., and more collective nouns? I suppose not, but I just wonder...


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## Armas

In Finnish most nouns are derived unless they are loans, here are some:

rasia = box, case (shallow, quite small, of wood or metal), from Germanic, cf. Pr.-Germ. *randia-
aski = small box, pack (usually metal or cardboard), from Swedish ask
purkki = glass jar, tall metal or cardboard or plastic container, from Swedish burk
tonkka = big metal container for milk, from Swedish stånka
tölkki = tin, can, or cardboard container
arkku = chest; coffin, from Latin arca through Scandinavian
kirstu = chest, etym. contested
vati = large and shallow dish or vessel, from Swedish fat
laatikko = box, crate, from old Swedish lādika
paketti = packing, wrapping
vaippa = envelope (in technical language, casing), mantle (of Earth), tunic (now dated), diaper, from Pr.-Germ. *(s)waipa-
tankki = tank, container
kontti = cargo container, probably based on English container and Finnish kontti = backpack made out of birch bark
vakka = type of wooden container, probably from Baltic (Pr.-Baltic has *vākā-)
kippo = small container, prob. from Pr.-Germ. *kippōn-
laari = bin, from old Swedish laar
kuori = shell (of egg, nut), bark (of tree), peel (of fruit), skin (of potato), envelope (for letter), from Pr.-Uralic *kore, which in turn could be from PIE

Words for other boxes, jars, cans, cases, packings, wrappings, vessels and containers are derived: säiliö = container, tank (< säilöä = to preserve), lipas = small box, case, ammunition magazine (< lippa = lid), astia = vessel, dish (< root *ase-, cf. asettaa = to put, asua = to live, stay), kääre = wrapping (< kääriä = to wrap), pakkaus = packing, wrapping (< pakata = to pack), kotelo = case, box (< kota = kind of tent), sammio = big vat (perhaps < sammas = pillar, column), kaukalo = long and narrow container (< kauka- = long, far), allas = tank, reservoir (< Germ. root *aldon- + -as), purnukka = small jar (< purnu (bin) + diminutive suffix -kka) etc.


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## ThomasK

What an impressive list! I did not wish to focus on the concrete containers as it seemed endless to me, but of course it is somehow interesting.


Armas said:


> (...)
> Words for other boxes, jars, cans, cases, packings, wrappings, vessels and containers are derived:
> *säiliö *= container, tank (< säilöä = to preserve),
> *lipas* = small box, case, ammunition magazine (< lippa = lid),
> *astia* = vessel, dish (< root *ase-, cf. asettaa = to put, asua = to live, stay),
> *kääre* = wrapping (< kääriä = to wrap),
> *pakkaus* = packing, wrapping (< pakata = to pack),
> *kotelo* = case, box (< kota = kind of tent),
> *sammio* = big vat (perhaps < sammas = pillar, column),
> *kaukalo* = long and narrow container (< kauka- = long, far),
> *allas* = tank, reservoir (< Germ. root *aldon- + -as),
> *purnukka* = small jar (< purnu (bin) + diminutive suffix -kka) etc.


 Could we say those are general, "collective" words, as opposed to the first series, which I omitted here? I mean: are these non-specific? (Compare _container_ and _chest_: a chest is a very concrete example of a container, which is a real hypernym, I suppose...) My feeling is that some are "more collective" than others here...


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## Nawaq

Uh, no, *French* doesn't have a simple word for all of this, so it's not really interesting.

Wrapping for presents is _papier cadeau_ 'gift paper". There is also _papier d'emballage_ "wrapping paper".
Wrapping can be _"emballage"_ or I guess _"packaging"_ (the English word, it's used only in the marketing business I think), to wrap is _emballer _or maybe even_ envelopper_. Envelope is also _enveloppe _and container is container (or _conteneur_). There is the word _paquetage _(from _paquet_) but I don't know where to put it... 

Well, what a worthless answer.


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