# Because we have few learners



## Talib

I'm having trouble translating equivalents to the English "to have" which is a very flexible verb. For instance, I constructed this sentence:

 آمل أن يقرأ العربية الذي أكتب بسبب لدينا قلة من المتعلمين

I was trying to say: "I hope that you read the Arabic which I write, because we have few learners" (context is in a Internet forum).

The first part looks okay, but the part بسبب لدينا doesn't feel right. Is this even correct? And what's the best way to say "we have" in this context?

Also I'm not completely sure about the grammar, but I rarely am....


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## xebonyx

I would use "there are(exists)" here.
.أتمنّّى أنكم تقرأوا الكلمات العربية التي أكتبها لكم لأن *يوجد* عدد قليل من المتعلمين اللغة


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## ayed

Talib said:


> *آمل أن تقرأوا العربية التي أكتب لقلة متعلميها معنا هاهنا*


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## xebonyx

Ayed, shouldn't it be أكتب*ها *?


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## ayed

If you say أكتبها , it is suffixed with a reflexive proun referes to the Arabic.
If you say أكتب, it just implies  you only .
The former is very specific than the latter..


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## xebonyx

Okay, so using " -ها" here is optional because you've mentioned the word "Arabic" already?

Also just wondering, but I'm not sure how accurate your sentence is. Did you mean to put "ل " before learners? It sounds as if he's actually writing to the few learners of Arabic, which isn't what the original sentence is saying.

**متعلمينها معنا هنا*


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## ayed

> Okay, so using " -ها" here is optional because you've mentioned the word "Arabic" already?


yes, and you can use it to be more specific in your writing..


> Also just wondering, but I'm not sure how accurate your sentence is. Did you mean to put "ل " before learners? It sounds as if he's actually writing to the few learners of Arabic, which isn't what the original sentence is saying.


Literally, means" becuase of fewness of learners"


> **متعلمينها معنا هنا*


Noon is usually dropped in case of (IDhafa)(Possessions)
ها هنا  means "right here" a specific spot which is "this Arabic forum"
هنا means "here" could mean on other forum as English Only or French forum ...ect.


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## xebonyx

ayed said:


> Literally, means" becuase of fewness of learners"
> Noon is usually dropped in case of (IDhafa)(Possessions)
> ها هنا  means "right here" a specific spot which is "this Arabic forum"


 Ah yes, of course, I forgot those points. Is this laam as-sababiyyah, btw?


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## Talib

I was writing to a single person. I should have mentioned that.

I don't understand why I can't use بسبب though when it translates to "because".

Also, can you please break this down word by word: لقلة متعلميها معنا هاهنا 

I don't understand what those ها are doing there.


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## xebonyx

Talib said:


> I was writing to a single person. I should have mentioned that.
> 
> I don't understand why I can't use بسبب though when it translates to "because".



Because it means *because of*.


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## ayed

> Talib I was writing to a single person. I should have mentioned that


*آمل أن تقرأ*


> I don't understand why I can't use بسبب though when it translates to "because".


It is a mere personal prefernce in writing.Surely, you can use it.


> Also, can you please break this down word by word: لقلة متعلميها معنا هاهنا
> 
> I don't understand what those ها are doing there


*لـ +قلة* due to/because of/owning to fewness of learners
*متعلميـ+ها* its learners.ها a reflexive pronoun refers to the Arabic
*ها هنا* right here.It is said when one wants to be more specific.It implies "*the Arabic forum*"


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## xebonyx

ayed said:


> It is a mere personal prefernce in writing.Surely, you can use it.



I've always been told this means "because of". Perhaps not!


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## ayed

*لأن = لــ+أن* 
لـ lam sababiyyah ..
*لقلة =بسبب قلة *


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## hadronic

xebonyx said:


> I would use "there are(exists)" here.
> .أتمنّّى أنكم تقرأوا الكلمات العربية التي أكتبها لكم لأن *يوجد* عدد قليل من المتعلمين اللغة


I think it should be "من متعلمي اللغة".


ayed said:


> If you say أكتبها , it is suffixed with a reflexive proun referes to the Arabic.
> If you say أكتب, it just implies you only .
> The former is very specific than the latter..


I don't understand what you mean by "being more specific" if you use the -hâ ?
الكلمات التي أكتبُها
الكلمات التي أكتبُ
What's the *real* difference if you had to translate that in English ?


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## dgully

ayed said:


> آمل أن تقرأوا العربية التي أكتب لقلة متعلميها معنا هاهنا


متعلميها

do you always remove the ن on nouns when adding pronouns?


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## Josh_

I also don't understand why it could be either العربية التي أكتب or العربية التي أكتبها.  I always thought that when you have a defined noun followed by relative pronoun and a dependent clause you need a pronoun referring back to the defined noun.

To answer some of the questions:



			
				Talib said:
			
		

> I don't understand what those ها are doing there.



The ها attached to أكتب is the third person feminine personal pronoun referring back to the antecedent العربية.

the ها attached to هنا is a حرف تنبيه (particle of calling attention) which directs attention to هنا. Including it is optional.  This same particle is also attached to the demonstrative ذا in its defective state, that is هـ without the ـا. So it is written هذا instead of هاذا.  It is still pronounced as هاذا, however.  

I know you are interested in both Arabic and Hebrew, Talib, and so my thread here, in which we discuss possible connections between Arabic and Hebrew demonstratives, may be of interest to you.



			
				xebonyx said:
			
		

> Talib said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand why I can't use بسبب though when it translates to "because".
> 
> 
> 
> Because it means *because of*.
Click to expand...




			
				xebonyx said:
			
		

> I've always been told this means "because of". Perhaps not!


Yes, you are right, xebonyx,  بسبب is used in iDaafa constructions and generally means "because of."  So to answer Talib's question you could write بسبب قلة (because of the few), as Ayed wrote, but  I don't believe that it can be followed by لدى which is a ظرف مكان. This can, however, follow لأن. So you could write لأن لدينا.



			
				dgully said:
			
		

> Do you always remove the ن on nouns when adding pronouns?



I know Ayed said usually, but it is my understanding that the ن is always, or should always be, dropped from the dual and masculine plural forms when pronouns are attached.


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## Talib

Josh_ said:


> I also don't understand why it could be either العربية التي أكتب or العربية التي أكتبها.  I always thought that when you have a defined noun followed by relative pronoun and a dependent clause you need a pronoun referring back to the defined noun.


العربية التي أكتب sounds fine to me, but that may just be because it's closer to the English version. Are you sure it must be العربية التي أكتبها?


> The ها attached to أكتب is the third person feminine personal pronoun referring back to the antecedent العربية.
> 
> the ها attached to هنا is a حرف تنبيه (particle of calling attention) which directs attention to هنا. Including it is optional.  This same particle is also attached to the demonstrative ذا in its defective state, that is هـ without the ـا. So it is written هذا instead of هاذا.  It is still pronounced as هاذا, however.


Yes, I read both as the feminine pronoun, which confused me. I hadn't heard of the حرف تنبية or knew that it was related to هذا. Very interesting. I will have to make a note of it.


> I know you are interested in both Arabic and Hebrew, Talib, and so my thread here, in which we discuss possible connections between Arabic and Hebrew demonstratives, may be of interest to you.


Thank you. I'll read it when I get a chance.


> I know Ayed said usually, but it is my understanding that the ن is always, or should always be, dropped from the dual and masculine plural forms when pronouns are attached.


This explains why you wrote من متعلمي اللغة instead of من المتعلمين اللغة. I wondered why.

So this rule is obligatory with every idaafa? In fact it sounds familiar, but it must have slipped my mind.


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## ayed

hadronic said:


> I don't understand what you mean by "being more specific" if you use the -hâ ?
> الكلمات التي أكتبُها
> الكلمات التي أكتبُ
> What's the *real* difference if you had to translate that in English ?


I mean it is optional to use it, hadronic.Either way works and acceptable.But when using aktubuha, it is more specific and exclusive in that you suffix the present tense "aktub"with the refelxive pronoun"ها"refering to the _Arabic language_.


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## hadronic

Sounds like you have a strange use of the word "specific", unless I'm mistaken. That's maybe what drove all of us into misunderstanding.

I knew already that that pronoun was non mandatory when the antecedent is an undefinite pronoun like "mâ" : Aqra'u mâ katabta fî al-risâlah / Aqra'u mâ katabtahu fî al-risâlah. But wasn't aware of it for plain normal words.


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## cherine

Talib said:


> العربية التي أكتب sounds fine to me, but that may just be because it's closer to the English version. Are you sure it must be العربية التي أكتبها?


Both are correct. But the modern usage commonly keeps the pronoun.


> This explains why you wrote من متعلمي اللغة instead of من المتعلمين اللغة. I wondered why.
> So this rule is obligatory with every idaafa? In fact it sounds familiar, but it must have slipped my mind.


In an iDaafa structure, the nuun is always dropped.
But... المتعلمين اللغة is not an iDaafa. The noun المتعلمين is an ism faa3il acting as a verb, and اللغة is the object of that verb.
Example from the Qur'an : والكاظمين الغيظ 

I have to say that this kind of structures is not very common in Modern Arabic, but this doesn't make it incorrect. People tend to use the iDaafa more commonly: متعلمي اللغة or كاظمي الغيظ .


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## xebonyx

So my sentence was 100% correct, then?


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## ayed

xebonyx said:


> I would use "there are(exists)" here.
> .*أتمنّى أن تقرأوا الكلمات العربية التي أكتبها لكم لأنه يوجد عدد قليل من متعلمي اللغة*


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## cherine

xebonyx said:


> So my sentence was 100% correct, then?


Not 100%, Andrea 


xebonyx said:


> .أتمنّّى أنكم تقرأوا الكلمات العربية التي أكتبها لكم لأن *يوجد* عدد قليل من المتعلمين اللغة


If you say أنكم then the verb should be تقرؤون
Or you can say أتمنى أنْ تقرؤوا 
For the second part of the sentence, you can either say: لأنه يوجد  or لوجود . The word عدد is not necessary. And, as I said before, although المتعلمين اللغة is not incorrect according to Classical Arabic, it's not common in MSA and would sound wrong to many ears, so you better say دارسي اللغة :
 لِقِلَّة دارسي اللغة .


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