# FR: je la mange / j'en mange



## sara_ir

I know that "En" replaces (partitive article+noun). There is no partitive article in these examples. Why "en" is replaced?

1)  As-tu un stylo ? Oui, j'en ai
2) Tu fais un footing ce week-end ? Oui, j'en fais un dimanche matin


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## Oddmania

Hi,

The partitive article is actually implicit.

For instance: _Tu veux *de l'*eau ? Oui, j'*en *veux._
.................._Tu connais *des *Canadiens ? Oui, j'*en *connais._

_En _replaces a *quantity *(_Do you want *some *water? Do you know *any *Canadians?_), and it makes perfect sense because a quantity is introduced by _de _
(or _des / du / de la_) in French.

It translates as _some _or _any _in English: _J'*en *veux → I want *some*.
.....................................................Je n'*en *veux pas → I don't want *any*._

It gets a little more complicated when you mention a precise number (_un, deux, trois_, etc.). In French, we still use _en _but we add the number afterwards: your first sentence should read _As-tu un stylo ? Oui, j'en ai *un*._ Just like _Tu fais un footing ? Oui, j'en fais *un*._

You could actually say _I have three *of them*_ in English too: _three _would be _trois_, and _of them_ would be _en _("J'en ai trois").

Just keep in mind that you *cannot *say _J'ai un / J'ai deux,_ etc. in French. It has to be _J'en ai un, j'en ai deux_, etc.

French grammar is extremely logical and definitely not as flexible as English grammar. Everything needs to be linked somehow in French. In English, it's okay to say _I have one_, but we French people consider that you can't own a number. You can't have "one": you can only have one item *of *something. Hence, _J'*en* ai un_ (= J'ai un exemplaire *des* stylos). The word _en _gives a meaning to an abstract mathematical number.


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## sara_ir

Which one is correct in this example?

Je mange une pomme --> Je la mange or j'en mange ?

Thanks so much for your reply.


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## Oddmania

Neither. It should be _en + *une*_.

Je mange *la *pomme → Je *la *mange (_I'm eating *it*_).
Je mange *une *pomme → J'*en *mange *une *(_I'm eating *one*_).
Je mange *des *pommes → J'*en *mange (_I'm eating *some*_).

_En _stands for _des_.
_En + une_ stands for _one_.
_En + deux_ stands for _two_.
etc.


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## sara_ir

So it is wrong to say: il a un œuf et il le mange ?

The examples given in this link are all wrong? 

http://www.francaisfacile.com/exercices/exercice-francais-1/exercice-francais-185.php

Thanks for your help.


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## zwim

It's not wrong, it's as Oddmania said with the difference between *it* and *one*.
J'achète une pomme → je l'achète (i buy it) or j'en achète une (i buy one)

And j'en mange is really replacing *some *because you can also use it for non-countable matter.
I'm eating peanut butter → j'en mange.

Beware that the example with *aimer* doesn't work with plural.
J'aime une fille → j'en aime une
J'aime des filles → j'en aime  weird sentence → je les aime or j'en aime plusieurs  you are forced to specify a number.

It's not really incorrect, but it's not widely used, sounds weird.
Yet you can perfectly say it with other tenses, j'en ai aimé, j'en aimerai.


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## sara_ir

Zwim: Oddmania clearly said that it was wrong. 



sara_ir said:


> Which one is correct in this example?
> 
> Je mange une pomme --> Je la mange or j'en mange ?





Oddmania said:


> Neither. It should be _en + *une*_.
> 
> Je mange *la *pomme → Je *la *mange (_I'm eating *it*_).
> Je mange *une *pomme → J'*en *mange *une *(_I'm eating *one*_).



I know why in my question "j'en mange" is wrong. I still don't understand why Oddmania said that "je la mange" for "je mange une pomme" is also not correct.


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## zwim

ok, ok, don't panic.

1. Both sentences syntax are correct (je la mange, j'en mange une).

2. What Oddmania said was wrong was not the syntax but the correspondance between the sentence on the left and the sentence on the right because it does not carry the same information. We will see why below.

3. *une* : is an undefinite article (one among many)
*la* : is a definite article (this one specifically)

4. je mange une pomme → je la mange

When you use this correspondance you replace something undefinite (une) by something definite (la), so you add some information in the sentence on the right that was not in the sentence on the left.
The apple which is any apple on the left becomes this very apple on the right.
So strictly speaking the correspondance is not an exact match, you have added some information.

5. je mange la pomme → j'en mange une

In this correspondance, which is the inverse of the previous one you lose information, so strictly speaking it's also wrong.

conclusion : we were trying to explain sutleties about the amount of information carried by the various sentences, all the sentences were syntactically correct, but not all pairings were correct.


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## sara_ir

So:

"Il a un œuf et il le mange" is correct 
But
je mange une pomme → je la mange is not correct? 

And also I asked if the examples given in this link were wrong. You said it was correct. It contains the same pair. 



sara_ir said:


> So it is wrong to say: il a un œuf et il le mange ?
> 
> The examples given in this link are all wrong?
> 
> http://www.francaisfacile.com/exercices/exercice-francais-1/exercice-francais-185.php





zwim said:


> It's not wrong, it's as Oddmania said with the difference between *it* and *one*.


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## zwim

To make you better understand the difference between une and la, let's examine the following situation.

There are two baskets with apples.

In basket A : there are 1 green apple and 3 red apples (let's name then g1,r1,r2,r3)
In basket B : there are 3 green apples and 1 red apple (let's name them G1,G2,G3,R1)

Je mange la pomme verte = i'm eating g1.

It can't be any other green apple, because we used *la*, the reader understand this apple can be identified uniquely, since in basket B there are 3 green apples, we don't know which one it could be, while in basket A, there is only 1 such apple, so we conclude it is this particular g1 apple even without looking at the baskets.

Je mange une pomme verte = i'm eating either g1 or G1 or G2 or G3

In your example :

Il a un oeuf et il le mange = he is eating *the egg he has in his hand*.

Because you just said he has an egg, this is defining precisely this egg.
It is the same situtation than a basket with only 1 element.

And i will not explain further, because i think you can figure out by yourself now.


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## Oddmania

sara_ir said:


> So:
> 
> "Il a un œuf et il le mange" is correct
> But
> je mange une pomme → je la mange is not correct.



Exactly. In the first sentence, there is the word *et*, but in the second one, there's an arrow "→", which is intended to mean "=". That makes a big difference.

You can say _"Il a *un *œuf, et il *le *mange"_ ("He has *an *egg / *one *egg, and he is eating *it*"), but you cannot say _Je la mange_ to replace the sentence _Je mange une pomme. "Je la mange" _and _"Je mange une pomme" _are not interchangeable.

In other words, you can mention something undefinite ("*un* oeuf") and then — in the same sentence — turn it into something definite ("il *le *mange"), because it's been mentioned earlier in the sentence, so it doesn't have to be undefinite anymore.

However, you cannot use a definite article ("la") to replace something undefinite that hasn't been mentioned before.

The same thing happens in English. You cannot say _"I'm eating it"_ as a short way to say _"I'm eating an apple"_, but you can perfectly say _I have *a *child and I love *him*_.

If you said _Il a un oeuf et il en mange un_, that would mean there are two eggs in the story: one that he owns, and one that he is eating.


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## Lotus0727

Excellent explanations, zwim and Oddmania.



Oddmania said:


> The same thing happens in English. You cannot say _"I'm eating it"_ as a short way to say _"I'm eating an apple"_



Actually, in day-to day usage, you can. In English, we're a little less picky about our definite and indefinite articles, which is why my students often give me blank looks when I try to explain the difference.


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## Kelly B

Another way to look at it:
When you say je le mange, it still means I'm eating *the *apple. When you say _le_, you don't mean just any apple, but the specific apple you've identified somewhere else in the surrounding context. If you have not, in fact, identified a specific apple somewhere eise in the context, then _le _sounds weird because it leaves the reader wondering, wait, which apple?

edited to add: and back on topic, I think of _en _as meaning _of those _in a context like this_. _So
_J'en mange une = I am eating one of those_


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## sara_ir

Thank you all for your help.


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