# let's go



## Thomas1

How would you say in Russian “let’s go” please?
As in:
--Has Tim come?
--Yes, just before a moment.
--Let’s go then.
Давайте идём seems to be going a little bit around what I would like to say, or is it? Could I use идём?

Большое спосибо, 
Том


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## Lemminkäinen

Perhaps just *давайте* could be used? Otherwise, I've heard that *пошли* is a colloquial way of saying it.


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## Brian P

Thomas1 said:


> --Yes, just before a moment.
> 
> 
> 
> Том


This is not correct English, Tom.  Do you mean "just a moment ago"? 
Regards,

Brian


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## Crescent

Lemminkäinen said:


> Perhaps just *давайте* could be used? Otherwise, I've heard that *пошли* is a colloquial way of saying it.


Lemmi is absolutely right with his suggestions! 
Пошли is absolutely fine, but I would suggest: _Пойдёмте! _to be more formal and more common. (but the only difference really is that the first one refers to ''ты'' and the second one to ''Вы'' whether it's a group of people or simply one person. )


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## Thomas1

So, is _идём_ wrong?

Maybe I’ll give this example in Polish:
-Jest już Tim? (Has Tim come yet?)
-Tak przyszedł przed chwilą. (Yes, He came a moment ago)
-Ok., idziemy. (Ok., we are going)

I want to use it towards us as in French _allons _(not towards the 2 person singular or plural as the Russian imperative is used).


Brian, thanks for the correction-that’s more or less what I meant. 


Tom


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## Anatoli

Both идём(те)! and пойдём(те)! are OK.

Although the form without -те means plural, the form with it is more polite.

"Пошли!" is more colloquial and less polite.


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## Jana337

Anatoli said:


> Both идём(те)! and пойдём(те)! are OK.


Could you please explain what the те is doing there? 

Jana


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## Maroseika

The forms пойдём/пойдёмте refer to the different numbers of Incentive Mode (побудительное наклонение), which is less insistent than Imperative, because speaker is going to take part in the action together with his addressee(s).
Single Incentive coincides with the Future 1st Person Plural (сядем); Plural Incentive - the same plus -те (сядемте). 
However nowadays natives usually do not differ between the Single and Plural Incentives, addressing with Single (пойдём) even to several persons. Opposite error is impossible, because if I address пойдёмте to one person, it's only if I mean addressing him вы, and therefore grammatically it's quite correct.
Anyway, Plural Insentive is used now as just the more polite form of Insentive, no matter to how many persons you're addressing. 
But for expressing your desire to perform some action together with smb/smbs, Russian provides other ways, too, such as Present and Past Tense. In our case these are идём and пошли.
These are more insistent forms: speaker is so insistent that in his conscious action has already begun or even occured, so to say.
Therefore, though all belowmentioned forms are all correct, they can be ranked in descending politeness / ascending insistence as follows:
- Давай/давайте пойдём, пойдём/пойдёмте, 
- Идём (ты и я), идёмте (вы/Вы и я) 
- Пошли (colloq. ungrammatical tempering variant - _пошлите_)
All the versions can be additionally tempered with the interrogative inflection or particle -ка (идём-ка, пошли-ка).


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> Both идём(те)! and пойдём(те)! are OK.
> 
> Although the form without -те means plural,


Sorry, but without -те it's Single.


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## Anatoli

Maroseika said:


> Sorry, but without -те it's Single.


Пош_ли_ - single?!?  At least two people are involved.
Пош_ёл_ (rude!) - go! single imperative


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> Пош_ли_ - single?!?  At least two people are involved.
> Пош_ёл_ (rude!) - go! single imperative


I did not say that пошли - Single; my remark referred to your examples only: пойдём(те), идём(те).
Пойдём - Single, because is addressed to *one *person. Пойдём means *let go me and thou.*
Пойдёмте - Plural, becuase is addressed to *>one *person. Пойдёмте means *let go me and you/You.*
Пошли - it's quite another case, it is Past Plural, but *used *as Imperative, and refers therefore to both *one or more persons*.
Пошёл - also Past Single *used* as Imperative not being same gramatically, and refers of course to *one person only* (speakers remains remains where he is).
_*Пошлите _- it's the ungrammatical form (though still in use), but semantically is quite clear and refers *only to me and you/You.*


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## Anatoli

Maroseika said:


> I did not say that пошли - Single; my remark referred to your examples only: пойдём(те), идём(те).





Maroseika said:


> Sorry, but without -те it's Single.



I don't think the ending -те serves to make plural plural_er_, Maroseika, any of the examples. We don't have dual forms in Russian, it's either single or plural. Adding this ending to our examples only makes the command/request/suggestion more polite, whether you address one person or a few.

All these suggestions refer to 1st person _plural_ - we, us. With or without -те.


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> I don't think the ending -те serves to make plural plural_er_, Maroseika, any of the examples.


Sure, it doesn't. It makes Plural from Single.
Пойдём is Single Intensive.


Anatoli said:


> We don't have dual forms in Russian, it's either single or plural. Adding this ending to our examples only makes the command/request/suggestion more polite, whether you address one person or a few.
> All these suggestions refer to 1st person _plural_ - we, us. With or without -те.


I'm afraid, Anatoly, you are mixing up Tenses and Modes. Modes can be in different Tenses, but contemporary Russian verb paradigms are much shorter than centuries ago, and therefore some verbs look equally in different combinations of Tense/Mode.
In particular, we can't say without a context, what does mean "пойдём": 
*Future Plural*: Завтра мы пойдём в поход.
or
*Single Incentive*: Маша, не копайся, пойдём скорее!
However, like I've said earlier, nowadays Russian natives often do not feel that when adding *-те* they are forming *Plural Incentive* (though they feel it when forming *Plural Imperative* with the same instrument!). They usually feel only politeness growth. О, Узус - великий и ужасный!...

Nevertheless, the fact is that gramatically we do have in Russian Plural and Single Incentive; and *пойдём* from my last example is really Single - (although there are two of those who will go), because there is one to whom incentive to go (in common with the speaker) is addressed - Маша.


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## Thomas1

Thanks for the answers. 

Just to see if I got it the right way:
I can use:
present tense incentive--идёмте-->towards one person but there are two people (me and my interlocutour) who will go; идёмте--towrds more than one;
present tense indicative--идём--towards us;
With the incentive being more polite, right?


Tom


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## Anatoli

I see your point, Maroseika. You have descibed very well. Only I am usually guided by the form of the verb, not the meaning, no, I am not mixing up modes. I am well aware that we are talking about the Imperative mode here.

I haven't come across the term "*Single *Incentive" in Russian when  1st person *plural* imperative form is used and wonder if this is described in standard grammar references somewhere.


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> I see your point, Maroseika. You have descibed very well. Only I am usually guided by the form of the verb, not the meaning, no, I am not mixing up modes. I am well aware that we are talking about the Imperative mode here.
> 
> I haven't come across the term "*Single *Incentive" in Russian when 1st person *plural* imperative form is used and wonder if this is described in standard grammar references somewhere.


Well, as we know, live language is much more complicated than any partition it in Modes, Tenses, Aspects, etc., etc...
Verb structure Indicative-Imperative-Incentive is very formal, because, as we know, in Russian there are also such Modes, as Subjunctive, Conditional, Desirable and others, each grammarian can elaborate his own system.
However, unlike many other languages, our verb paradigm is rather short, and to describe it completely we may use only 3 Tenses, 2 Aspects, 3 Persons, 2 Numbers, Reflection and 2-3 Modes: Indicative and Imperative/Incentive.
The latter term is rather complicated: http://edu.shd.ru/projects/gram/1937-1951.html
But to differ morfological forms we may use it in the "limited" form like I've described before (it is also used in Lingvo ABBYY), it is very usefull, but quite formal.


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## Maroseika

Thomas1 said:


> Thanks for the answers.
> 
> Just to see if I got it the right way:
> I can use:
> present tense incentive--идёмте-->towards one person but there are two people (me and my interlocutour) who will go; идёмте--towrds more than one;
> present tense indicative--идём--towards us;
> With the incentive being more polite, right?
> Tom


Not entirely:
Лена, идём в кино - I'll go with Lena to the cinema
Лена, Катя, идём в кино! - I'll go to the sinema with Lena and Katya - not completely gramatical form but appropriate in the colloquial. 
Лена, Катя, идёмте в кино! - same sense, more politely
Василий Петрович, идёмте в кино! - I'll go to the sinema with him, whom I address Вы.


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## PERSEE

Thomas1 said:


> So, is _идём_ wrong?
> 
> I want to use it towards us as in French _allons_.



Just a remark about the French _allons_, as I happen to be French. We don't use it alone, we say: "Allons y". "Allons" alone is more like: "Come on" in English, it is used for light reproach or encouragement. Example: "Allons, courage !" (or "Allez"). We also have "Allons bon...", which is used for expressing annoyment. Variants of "Allons y" would be "Allez, on y va" (more colloquial), not to speak about the "vulgar" ways of saying it: "Allez, on se casse/on se tire/on se barre/cassos", and so on.

I hope this hasn't been too tedious a digression!


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## cyanista

Maroseika said:


> Well, as we know, live language is much more complicated than any partition it in Modes, Tenses, Aspects, etc., etc...


That's very true.


> Verb structure Indicative-Imperative-Incentive is very formal, because, as we know (emphasis mine - C.), in Russian there are also such Modes, as Subjunctive, Conditional, Desirable and others, each grammarian can elaborate his own system.


Let's not confuse the learners of Russian with the complicated systems that some grammarians develop because they fancy a doctor's degree. I personally never heard of the Incentive or Desirable moods. I think it's important to know the traditional and, to my mind, the most simple and convenient system that is taught in schools. Russian is normally seen as having *three* modes: the Indicative (изъявительное наклонение), the Imperative (повелительное наклонение), and the Subjunctive (сослагательное наклонение).
The forms идём/пойдём are viewed as the 1st person of the Imperative. Their modal meaning is the same as in the English "let's go" and the German "gehen wir" (both imperative mood). I don't see any reason to view the Russian form as a separate mood. There is a nice definition of the Imperative on answers.com: a mood that expresses an intention to influence the listener's behavior. That fits, doesn't it? 
See also ИМПЕРАТИВ and НАКЛОНЕНИЕ.


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## Maroseika

cyanista said:


> That's very true.
> Let's not confuse the learners of Russian with the complicated systems that some grammarians develop because they fancy a doctor's degree. I personally never heard of the Incentive or Desirable moods. I think it's important to know the traditional and, to my mind, the most simple and convenient system that is taught in schools. Russian is normally seen as having *three* modes: the Indicative (изъявительное наклонение), the Imperative (повелительное наклонение), and the Subjunctive (сослагательное наклонение).
> The forms идём/пойдём are viewed as the 1st person of the Imperative. Their modal meaning is the same as in the English "let's go" and the German "gehen wir" (both imperative mood). I don't see any reason to view the Russian form as a separate mood. There is a nice definition of the Imperative on answers.com: a mood that expresses an intention to influence the listener's behavior. That fits, doesn't it?
> See also ИМПЕРАТИВ and НАКЛОНЕНИЕ.


In general I can agree with you, and in my last response to Thomas1 I tried to narrow the matter just to the morphological differences of the verb forms, because I guess each member of the paradigm should get it's simple and clear explanation; otherwise it cannot be used. 
I'd like to remind that the title question of the thread was: *how can we express in Russian: let's go*. Therefore we should explain the difference between идём, идёмте, пошли? давайте пойдём, давай пойдём, what else?
For such a verb like дать we should explain the difference between дай, дайте, давай, давайте.
Can you do that using only the term *Imperative*?
Introduction of Incentive (побудительное наклонение) seems to be rather convinient instrument, explaining the difference between different *morphological *forms, matching also politeness difference. The same system is used in one of the most popular educating dictionaries - ABBYY Lingvo, offering *imperative* and *incentive* forms for all russian verbs, and that's why I've used exactly this way to explain.
But of course I don't mind of anybody using any other system, letting the student to comprehend the matter better and quicker.


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