# 生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る価値観



## mdbvma

"他方、平和や愛国に対する国民感情が高まった。戦死者や伝染病死者、住民の移動による人口構成の変化、またそれに生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る価値観が生成され、武器や馬などによる文化変容が起こり、組織や物資などが社会の結束化、階層化、解体化などに影響を与え、敵を憎むことにとより自民族中心主義が強くなり、統合性などにより軍部が政権を握ったり、国家意識が創出されたりする。"

This is a list of changes that occurred in Korean society due to the Korean War. Does "生き残る価値観" mean "the surviving sense of values", or does it mean "the sense of values of those people who survived"? I'm not really sure what the most likely subject of "適応" and "生き残る" are.


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## YangMuye

mdbvma said:


> Does "生き残る価値観" mean "the surviving sense of values"


I think so.



mdbvma said:


> I'm not really sure what the most likely subject of "適応" and "生き残る" are.



人口構成の変化(が生成され/起こり)、またそれ(の変化)に適応して生き残る価値観が生成され

The subject is 価値観.


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## Flaminius

I think here 価値観 is equivalent to 価値 or values (things that people value).  The foregoing part is the content that people place in high regards.  To paraphrase this somewhat unconventional text, we can say:
またそれに生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る[ことをよしとする]価値観
またそれに生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る[ための]価値観

I cannot decide which better suits your context, though.


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## karlalou

Yes, I agree with YanMuye.


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## YangMuye

Hmm, I read the sentence again, and think it's indeed an unconventional sentence.

I agree ための can be inserted before 価値観, so it's not strictly the subject. But


Flaminius said:


> 価値観 is equivalent to 価値 or values (things that people value).


Do you mean that: things that people value were formed? (価値とされるものが生成される) It does not sound quite right to me.



mdbvma said:


> Does "生き残る価値観" mean "the surviving sense of values", or does it mean "the sense of values of those people who survived"? I'm not really sure what the most likely subject of "適応" and "生き残る" are.


I think the 価値観 is a tool here. The original sentence should be like: 韓国人はその価値観をもって、人口構成の変化に適応して、生き残ることができた。
The subject is not individuals, but the whole race as an abstract entity. "the sense of values of those people who survived" is not very suitable, because not all people who have this sense of values survived...


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## Flaminius

YangMuye said:


> Do you mean that: things that people value were formed? (価値とされるものが生成される) It does not sound quite right to me.


Oh, I used "things" in a rather sloppy way.  Do I make sense if I rephrased it to "ideas"?

I imagine in a turbulent society survival can become an ideal itself, not a tool to achieve another ideal.  You might have to do something that you would never do under normal circumstances.  Survival as a value can convince people into doing something that would run counter to their traditional values.


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## YangMuye

Oh, 社会変化に適応して生き残れ、という価値観 does sound inspiring.

That only problem is, I don't know how to 生物学的、生態学的に do it...


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## Flaminius

生態学的 "ecological" is a metaphorical word in sociology.  It should certainly involve moving out to a safer and richer area and other things.

Biological, this I don't understand; unless the author means something like the next generation of people are genetically stronger for cold and famine. . .


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Hi,
I have a new idea for the interpretation of "生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る価値観."

It means "the idea that Darwinism is important for survive. Adaptation is important for survive."

"after learning the significance of theory of evolution"

"after learning that the living creatures are moving from the ocean to the land if it is necessary, or getting lungs instead of gills if necessary, and these changes are very valuable in order to survive"

In other words, "after becoming more wisely/academically/scientifically than just believing a myth or a religion."

This might be a silly interpretation, but it makes sense, isn't it?
What do you think?


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## frequency

YangMuye said:


> 社会変化に適応して生き残れ、という価値観


Yup.

みんなと大体同じだけど、生き残ろうとする価値観、ではない？
People died and moved away―I see the sentence mentioning the decrease in the population that was caused by war, diseases, and movement. I suppose that the decrease looked a sense of menace to the people, so that they had the motivation to survive in the society.
Plus, how they survive? 生物学的、生態学的に適応して。
This sounds like, in other words, natural adaptability. I'm sure that you md roughly understand lol.
If I rewrite that one for better understanding:
戦死者や伝染病死者、住民の移動による人口構成の変化、またそれに対して生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残ろうとする価値観が生成され、

By the way, the sentence is too long. Stop it once in the middle: 文化変容が起こった。
そういう価値観が生成され、さらに文化変容が起こったんだね。


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## mdbvma

Thank you for your replies.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

mdbvma said:


> This is a list of changes that occurred in Korean society *due to the Korean War*.



I don't think so.
The list is talking about the much-longer history of human beings or living creatures.
馬 is talking about 騎馬民族.
武器 is probably talking about 石器　as well as 鉄器.

Are you sure that the list is talking about just the Korean War (1950-1953)?


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## mdbvma

Yes, it's just the Korean War (1950-1953). The paragraph starts with, "朝鮮戦争は、当事者国である韓国をどのように変えたのだろうか。"


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## SoLaTiDoberman

I still disagree.

The concept of "a paragraph" is not so strict in the Japanese language as in English. It is completely up to the writer. They might write completely unrelated things in a single paragraph.
In other words, Japanese essays often don't follow the logical structure rules as in English.

Without the whole context, I have to guess it, but the writer was probably talking like this:

"How did the Korean War change Korea? Before answering that question, I'd like to discuss the more general change in human history.  Generally speaking, human beings have been changed through many factors, for example ........................ "

Then the writer would probably mention the answer to that question.
Could you check on that?
Am I wrong?


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## YangMuye

I thought the same thing.

In fact, when I at first saw 生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る価値観が生成され, I immediately associate 価値観 with 適応 and neglect 生き残る, because 生物学的 and 生態学的 are big words which fit better with 価値観.

Later, I realized the subject is not 価値観 because the verb is 生き残る, so I thought the author is somewhat speaking in retrospect. That is, tremendous changes happened and people got adapted to it---it must be their values that played a key role. As a result, the 価値観 was the tool that helped them, though people did not even realize it. Though I think @Flaminius's interpretation is better, I don't think 生物学的、生態学的 is something people normally keep in mind as part of their sense of values.

@SoLaTiDoberman 's interpretation is interesting. It's possible that the author is just talking about human history in general. Every time a race is endangered, they can always adapt themselves biologically and ecologically and survive.
Things like (それに適応する)価値観が生成され, 文化変容が起こり, 自民族中心主義が強くなり、軍部が政権を握ったり、国家意識が創出されたりする happen all the time, though people do not even realize it.


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## karlalou

It starts with 他方. I think this whole passage is just one item on the list of changes caused by the Korean War. 

The second long sentence is just very roughly saying things are like that. 
I came to think so because what it saying is a mixture of time period. 
武器や馬などによる文化変容. I don't think Korea was that much behind on technology at middle of 20th century.

I came to suspect that what the writer meant by saying 生物学的、生態学的に適応して生き残る価値観 was sense of value which puts value on the ability to survive by adapting biologically and/or ecologically, so the subject of 生き残る is general people. Though I personally want to think this is a some kind of mistake.


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