# Inanimate masculine genitive case singular with -a



## Kwunlam

May I ask how can I tell if an inanimate masculine noun has genitive ending with -a ? Do I have to consult the dictionary everytime or is there a list to memorize? 

Thanks ! 


_From the online comprehensive grammar of Czech language, p. 23:
"About 97% of inanimate masculine hard stem nouns have -u, 2% have -a, and 1% permit both endings."_


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## kusurija

> inanimate masculine hard stem nouns, _which_ have -u _in sg.GEN._


Hrad - hradu(castle)


> inanimate masculine hard stem nouns, _which_ have -a _in sg.GEN._


Les - lesa(forest)

E.g.: Leden - ledna
únor - února
březen - března
duben - dubna
květen - května
červen - června
srpen - srpna
říjen - října
večer - večera
Jupiter - Jupitera
kostel - kostela

Both: Merkur - Merkura/Merkuru
Saturn - Saturna/Saturnu
Uran - Urana/Uranu(planet) 
_but_: uran - uranu(chemical element)
Neptun - Neptuna/Neptunu
čtvrtek - čtvrtka/čtvrtku
pátek - pátku/(pátka)


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## Encolpius

Good question. Although no problem for native speakers it's really a difficult part of the Czech grammar for non-native speakers.
*You don't need to consult the dictionary.* Here's the list: 

genitive with -u
1) all words ending in -f, -g, -h, -m, -z: golfu, sněhu, domu, kazu...
2) almost all words ending in: -ch, -b, -p, -v, -l, -s, -d, -t, -r with those exemptions: chléb, sklep, domov, hřbitov, chlév, ostrov, bacil, kostel, popel, týl, les, oves, oběd, ocet, svět, život, dvůr, klášter, sýr, tábor, únor, večer.

-a is a little bit more common in words ending in -n and -k.
-N
* -a*
1) mlýn, zákon
2) words ending in -ín: komín, kravín...
3) months -en: leden, březen, duben...
* -u*
all the rest: hlen, román, stan...
-K
* -a*
1) jazyk, potok, rybník
2) all day names -ek: pondělek, úterek, čtvrtek, zítřek
3) all the names ending in -šek: dnešek, protějšek
* -u*
1) dimunutives -ek, -ík: domeček, písek...
2) the rest: bok, krk, šperk, smyk...

But the greatest problem should be the place names. 
But there is a list too.


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## werrr

kusurija said:


> Jupiter - Jupitera
> 
> Merkur - Merkura/Merkuru
> Saturn - Saturna/Saturnu
> Uran - Urana/Uranu(planet)
> Neptun - Neptuna/Neptunu


But this is dichotomy in animateness.



Encolpius said:


> But the greatest problem should be the place names.


Definitely, but there could be some absolutes in regards of suffixes, like all local names with the suffix "-ov" takes "-a" in genitive, all local names with the suffix "-ín" takes preferably "-a", but "-u" could be seen as well, and so on.


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## Encolpius

werrr said:


> ...Definitely, but there could be some absolutes in regards of suffixes, like all local names with the suffix "-ov" takes "-a" in genitive, all local names with the suffix "-ín" takes preferably "-a", but "-u" could be seen as well, and so on.



Yes, there are some rules, but I meant, there are *so many place names*, not to mention just only parts of cities (Vyšehrad, Karlín) that one never knows what locals use. Sometimes even native speakers are unsure about the endings or even the gender. 



werrr said:


> ...but "-u" could be seen as well, and so on.



Any examples? 

But grammar regarding place names is difficult in all languages.


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## jazyk

> genitive with -u
> 1) *all words* ending in -f, -g, -h, -m, -z: golfu, sněhu, domu, kazu...


Isn't it too risky to affirm such a thing? I never use _never_ and _always _when I talk about languages.


> -a is a little bit more common in words ending in -n and -k.
> -N
> * -a*
> 1) mlýn, zákon
> 2) words ending in -ín: komín, kravín...
> 3) months -en: leden, březen, duben...


I think here it's safer to assume that words ending in -ín and -ýn normally have a genitive in -a and consider zákon an exception.



> 2) almost all words ending in: -ch, -b, -p, -v, -l, -s, -d, -t, -r with those exemptions: chléb, sklep, domov, hřbitov, chlév, ostrov, *bacil*, kostel, popel, týl, les, oves, oběd, ocet, svět, život, dvůr, klášter, sýr, tábor, únor, večer.


Wouldn't bacil be considered animate? Tábor and popel can also have táboru and popelu.

Two other words I remember are svět - světa and národ - národa.


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## kusurija

Popel may be hard stem _or not _popel - popele (I _personally_ like more to use this; not popel - popela _or_ popel - popelu, but these are possible too)


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## Tinu

kusurija said:


> pátek - pátku/(pátka)


 
I think that if you mean the word "pátek" in its original sense (fifth day of week), the only standard genitive sg form is "pátku". The from "Pátka" (note the capital P) is acceptable only when speaking about the Robinson Crusoe´s best friend Friday  (in which case, of course, "pátek" turns animate).
However, I agree that in colloquial Czech the genitive form "pátka" (e. g. "do tohoto pátka" - "until this Friday") can be heard, especially in Moravia, I guess.


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## Encolpius

Tinu said:


> ...However, I agree that in colloquial Czech the genitive form "pátka" (e. g. "do tohoto pátka" - "until this Friday") can be heard, especially in Moravia, I guess.



I hear pátka in Prague too. But I never use it myself.


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## jazyk

Another genitive in a is Egypta.


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## cajzl

> But the greatest problem should be the place names. But there is a list too.


No problem at all. If the placename is an appellativum it follows the rules for appellativa (z Vyšehradu - hradu/castle, z Písku - písku/sand, z Mostu - mostu/bridge, z Tábora - tábora...; NB: z Náchoda, z Újezda). Otherwise the gen. ending is -a: z Berouna, z Říma, z Egypta. The ending -ov and -ín was already mentioned. /// Another singularity: národu (also národa), lidu, skotu, bravu, hmyzu.


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## werrr

cajzl said:


> No problem at all. If the placename is an appellativum it follows the rules for appellativa (z Vyšehradu - hradu/castle, z Písku - písku/sand, z Mostu - mostu/bridge, z Tábora - tábora...; NB: z Náchoda, z Újezda). Otherwise the gen. ending is -a: z Berouna, z Říma, z Egypta. The ending -ov and -ín was already mentioned. /// Another singularity: národu (also národa), lidu, skotu, bravu, hmyzu.


That is not as simple as you say, especially for the foreigners.

It needn't be trivial to decide what placenames are appelatives since you have to consider the historical meanings/forms. Is “Tábor” derived from appellative “tábor” or directly from the Biblical Mount Tabor? Is “Cheb” (cognate to “ohyb”) appellative?. And the rules for the appellatives could be ambiguous (“dvoru” or “dvora”; “koutu” or “kouta”). 

You have also consider the names of foreign origin (e.g. Frenštát, Bruntál, Šternberk, Říp) or the Slavic names screwed by foreign languages (e.g. Marktredwitz) or the names from related Slavic languages (e.g. Gdaňsk, Smolensk, Doněck, Split, Záhřeb).

And we have tons of suffixes. Besides trouble-free “-ín” or “-ov” there are problematic suffixes like “-ík” (“Sněžníku” or “Sněžníka”?).



And back to the nouns in general, the rules by Encolpius are not perfect. Consider for example the words “kmín” or “klín” (This “-ín” is not suffix!!). The forms of “klín” even vary in dependence on the particular meanings of the word.


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## Tagarela

Ahoj,

I am sorry, but what is *apellative*?

Nashled.:


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## cajzl

appellativum (Latin, pl. appellativa) - a common name, stands for a whole class, genus, or species (e.g. man, dog, stone, table, ...)


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## cajzl

> That is not as simple as you say, especially for the foreigners.


Then we must end up with a conclusion that every native speaker has his learned list (more or less complete and accurate) and for a foreigner there is no other way than to imitate this method.


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## NoTraducer

Btw, there have been, even in terms of recent history, some changes in the use of the cases....


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