# liefs



## onahammock

Hi,

I've read it on a website saying that when it comes to the letter/email sign-off, you only write "Liefs," (much love) for people you feel certain attraction to, and the other website says it's for friends or family. That's pretty much about all the information I could get for this specific sign-off "Liefs,". Most websites only talk about Groeten, or the same sorts of sign-off to end a letter/email. 

In English, when you end your letter with "Love," it's very common between friends and that doesn't mean you are attracted to the recipient. Would you say the same about "Liefs,"? So I can totally  use "Liefs," in a non-romantic way? Thank you!


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## NewtonCircus

The word is used for family and close friends (subjective), not with colleagues or acquaintances.


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## bibibiben

Yes, agreed. To be used for family and close friends (although I don't think it's commonly used between close _male_ friends). Or use it for the one that you love, of course.


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## YellowOnline

On a side note: I have a similar problem in other languages where the letter starts with "Dear" (EN), "Cher" (FR) or "Liebe" (DE). Because in Dutch the equivalent ("Liefste") is reserved for very close people, I have serious trouble to write such a thing in those languages. 

Seems that both the Dutch and the Flemish like to keep some distance


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## Peterdg

YellowOnline said:


> On a side note: I have a similar problem in other languages where the letter starts with "Dear" (EN), "Cher" (FR) or "Liebe" (DE). Because in Dutch the equivalent ("Liefste") is reserved for very close people, I have serious trouble to write such a thing in those languages.
> 
> Seems that both the Dutch and the Flemish like to keep some distance


I agree; absolutely not done in Dutch. In Dutch you start with "geachte heer/mevrouw" or, a litle less informal: "Beste..." and if it can be really informal: "hallo". Anything, even only remotely related to "lief" is reserved for the love of your life or possibly your parents. I can't help it. When in Rome, do as the Romans do.


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## onahammock

YellowOnline said:


> On a side note: I have a similar problem in other languages where the letter starts with "Dear" (EN), "Cher" (FR) or "Liebe" (DE). Because in Dutch the equivalent ("Liefste") is reserved for very close people, I have serious trouble to write such a thing in those languages.
> 
> Seems that both the Dutch and the Flemish like to keep some distance



It's interesting you brought this up. I remember when I wrote to some German friends of mine, I was also kind of struggling whether I should use "Liebe(r)" or not though I know that's a common way to start a letter. Since you mentioned that, I'm wondering, what are some common words to begin the letters/emails to your lover then? I know there could be a million ways but if you don't mind, can you suggest a few? 

That might be true but in general I find people fairly friendly!


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## onahammock

Thank you guys! Now I know I can use "Liefs," with my good friends! 

Just curious (if I may add another question), how about "Knuffels,"? I do sign off with "Hugs," a lot when I write to my friends in English, either to male or female friends. Is "Knuffels," also as common & as non-romantic?


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## YellowOnline

onahammock said:


> Thank you guys! Now I know I can use "Liefs," with my good friends!
> 
> Just curious (if I may add another question), how about "Knuffels,"? I do sign off with "Hugs," a lot when I write to my friends in English, either to male or female friends. Is "Knuffels," also as common & as non-romantic?



No - it is just like "liefs" or "kusjes". The most common informal signing off is probably "groetjes" - "greetings" in its diminutive form.


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## NewtonCircus

YellowOnline said:


> On a side note: I have a similar problem in other languages where the letter starts with "Dear" (EN), "Cher" (FR) or "Liebe" (DE). Because in Dutch the equivalent ("Liefste") is reserved for very close people, I have serious trouble to write such a thing in those languages.


I have to admit that I had issues with this as well.




YellowOnline said:


> Seems that both the Dutch and the Flemish like to keep some distance


I think that's subjective. It all depends on how words, symbols and actions are locally interpreted and the closest fit of _Dear_ in this context seems to be _Beste. _You see similar differences in symbolic interpretation across cultures of other words, the word _Uncle_ for instance.

Same is true for display of affection. In Anglo-Saxon and East Asian societies, cheek-kissing is considered intimate while hugging isn't. In Belgium it's the opposite. I learnt that the hard way in the US and Japan , very embarrassing. Under the influence of American culture you increasingly see hugging taking place in Belgium, still the older generation feels uncomfortable with this.


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## Peterdg

NewtonCircus said:


> I still the older generation feels uncomfortable with this.


Old !


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## NewtonCircus

You mean, where you live (older) acquaintances hug when they say goodbye?


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## Peterdg

No, it was ironic, referring to myself: I feel uncomfortable with hugging and not so with kissing so I deduced you consider me as being old.


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## YellowOnline

NewtonCircus said:


> [...]Same is true for display of affection. In Anglo-Saxon and East Asian societies, cheek-kissing is considered intimate while hugging isn't. In Belgium it's the opposite. I learnt that the hard way in the US and Japan , very embarrassing. Under the influence of American culture you increasingly see hugging taking place in Belgium, still the older generation feels uncomfortable with this.



It's a bit off-topic, but related nevertheless. I have the same problem here in Germany: few people kiss, but hugging is the social norm. I'm still not used to hugging strangers as a Belgian  But I've never seen hugging in Belgium though - that must be a very new thing. As a 34 year old, I'm not exactly old. At least I hope  If I saw one evolution, it is that in some Flemish crowds kissing between male friends (as an alternative to shaking hands) became more common, probably because this is ubiquitous in the French-speaking world.


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## NewtonCircus

EDIT: I actually have a little anecdote on this usage of _Dear_. I once started an email to my wife, who only speaks English and self-taught Dutch from an Assimil pocket book, with _Dear _and received a reply in no time with the question "Why are you suddenly so formal? Are you up to something" .



YellowOnline said:


> But I've never seen hugging in Belgium though - that must be a very new thing. As a 34 year old, I'm not exactly old.


I have seen teenagers with an obvious local accent and clearly not in some sort of close or romantic relationship doing that on a few occasions in Leuven and Hasselt. I was surprised as well. Unthinkable in my heydays . You could be right that this is very new, probably influenced by US culture. 




YellowOnline said:


> I have the same problem here in Germany


In Singapore which has had, and still has huge US influence, hugging is also the norm. You occasionally bump into a person familiar with this cheek-kissing practice, mostly people who have studied or worked in Europe for an extensive period of time. The problem is that this is so out of the norm that you don't expect that the other party is going to do this.


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## onahammock

YellowOnline said:


> It's a bit off-topic, but related nevertheless. I have the same problem here in Germany: few people kiss, but hugging is the social norm. I'm still not used to hugging strangers as a Belgian



For me it's particularly funny and confusing when I hung out with an international crowd. With germans, we hugged; with greeks, we cheek kissed *2; with dutch, we cheek kissed *3; and with the rest, we opted for a hug or nothing. However, from my experience, when Germans happened to be the majority in many occasions, everyone sort of just went for a hug!


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## onahammock

NewtonCircus said:


> EDIT: I actually have a little anecdote on this usage of _Dear_. I once started an email to my wife, who only speaks English and self-taught Dutch from an Assimil pocket book, with _Dear _and received a reply in no time with the question "Why are you suddenly so formal? Are you up to something" .
> 
> ..... In Singapore which has had, and still has huge US influence, hugging is also the norm. You occasionally bump into a person familiar with this cheek-kissing practice, mostly people who have studied or worked in Europe for an extensive period of time. The problem is that this is so out of the norm that you don't expect that the other party is going to do this.



Haha your example demonstrates exactly how the strength of one word differs in different languages/cultures!

That's something new for me. I didn't know hugging is the norm in Singapore. I believe that in most Asian countries, people tend to avoid physical contact in general. Singapore certainly sounds like an exception!


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