# monosyllabic/polysyllabic morpheme, free/bound morpheme



## yuechu

albert_laosong said:


> Not sure what's a polysyllabic word? It seems that all Chinese words are polysyllabic and all Chinese characters are monosyllabic?


Hi, Albert_laosong!
Not all words are polysyllabic in Chinese. For example, the character 看 can be used by itself, therefore it is both a word and a character. However, the character 习 cannot be used by itself (I don't think?) so it is a character but not a word. (although it can be part of a word such as 学习 or 习惯)
Thanks for the sentence examples, Albert_laosong!


----------



## Jack12345

yuechu said:


> the character 习 cannot be used by itself


Excuse me, I don't think so.
e.g. 他的武功习自金庸。here 习 means 学习 learn.

If you think about the traditional or even ancient Chinese, every character has its complete meaning. So, in Chinese, character is word. They always can be used singly.
Especially, ancient Chinese always use just few characters to express complicated meaning, even to record historical events. For example, the traditional Chinese poem, the engraved bronze vessels, the inscriptions on bones or tortoise shells of the Shang Dynasty, etc..
Therefore, I think there is no character like English character in Chinese. They are all words.


----------



## albert_laosong

yuechu said:


> Hi, Albert_laosong!
> Not all words are polysyllabic in Chinese. For example, the character 看 can be used by itself, therefore it is both a word and a character. However, the character 习 cannot be used by itself (I don't think?) so it is a character but not a word. (although it can be part of a word such as 学习 or 习惯)
> Thanks for the sentence examples, Albert_laosong!


I see, so you mean 看 is a monosyllabic word while 学习/习惯/画蛇添足 are polysyllabic words?


----------



## yuechu

Jack12345 said:


> If you think about the traditional or even ancient Chinese, every character has its complete meaning. So, in Chinese, character is word. They always can be used singly.


Oh, I see what you mean. But I guess I was referring more to modern Chinese. Some books for foreigners learning Chinese distinguish the two (although dictionaries don't always, it seems).



albert_laosong said:


> I see, so you mean 看 is a monosyllabic word while 学习/习惯/画蛇添足 are polysyllabic words?


Yes, that's right!


----------



## Jack12345

yuechu said:


> Chinese distinguish the two (although dictionaries don't always, it seems).


I know what it refers to. It means some word composed by several single word and used as one word. It is. But at the same time, every single word can be used itself.
Monosyllabic,  单音节的（字/词）
Polysyllabic，多音节*（字/词）*
Word refers to 词。character refers to 字。
In Chinese, 字 can be used itself. It's not real character such as A, B, C.


----------



## Ghabi

Jack12345 said:


> If you think about the traditional or even ancient Chinese, every character has its complete meaning


What does 蜘 mean? What does 忐 mean?


----------



## Skatinginbc

雖然, "tǎn-tè" (特為其造字義譯為「忐忑」，或音譯為「憳忒」) 是一個 morphological unit that cannot be further divided, 但是「忐」這個「字」(logogram) 是會意字， 由「心」和「上」這兩個「字」(graphemes)  合成一個新的意思 (i.e., 心跳上)。「忐忑」就是「 心跳上跳下, 七上八下, 心神不定, 虛心膽怯」的意思。

「蜘」這個「字」(logogram) 是形聲字, 从虫，知聲.


----------



## Jack12345

Ghabi said:


> What does 蜘 mean? What does 忐 mean?



蜘，zhi1, 蜘就是鼄蟊。《说文解字》
忐，tan3, 忐就是心神不安。
忑，te4, 忑就是不安。
蜘，忐虽然日常是蜘蛛，忐忑的用法。但单独使用可以表达完整的意思。比如跰体文，对仗句中，或者一些特殊的句子中（如上）。也可以自己组句：
他忐而不安，四顾惘然。
蜘者蛛也，布网而食。


----------



## Ghabi

Jack12345 said:


> 蜘，忐虽然日常是蜘蛛，忐忑的用法。但单独使用可以表达完整的意思。


Amazing. So we can say:
-我看到一个很大的蜘,很可怕呢
-我心里很忐,不知道咋办 
?


----------



## forgoodorill

Jack說的情況顯然在這裡不適用，是兩種不同的情況。



Jack12345 said:


> 但*单独使用可以表达完整的意思*



Jack應該表達的意思類似於這樣：
你吃了麼？----------意思是你吃飯了麼，但是一般日常生活省略“飯”



Jack12345 said:


> 他忐而不安，四顾惘然。
> 蜘者蛛也，布网而食。


但是這裡所說的，卻是*解釋字義*。
四顧惘然：

四：四面，周圍----------------但是不能因為它的解釋里有“四”，就認為單獨使用可以表達完整的意思。這裡只是一些*約定俗成，方便理解的解釋*


----------



## Jack12345

我的意思是这些字本身有完整的意思，可以单独使用。但不是说违背表达习惯。
比如，忐而不安，蜘者蛛也，不是一个已有的词语，也不是正常的表达习惯，但是看到了，可以直接理解它的意思。我只是想说明这些字可以单独使用，并不是说它们已成为表达习惯。
再比如到北京公干，有时会听见："领导说了，还得再绷！" 这种如同黑话一样的用法，第一次遇见的人可能直接懵了。领导什么意思？（绷（不知是哪个字，只知道发音），懵，以前很少单独使用，现在已经很常用了）

我觉得，语言是发展变化的，总会不断有新的使用方法。只要能准确，便捷地传递所要表达的意思，就是有效的。单字使用，也是一样的。


----------



## Ghabi

forgoodorill said:


> Jack12345 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 蜘者蛛也，布网而食。
> 
> 
> 
> 但是這裡所說的，卻是*解釋字義*。
Click to expand...

Oh my Lord, this is so amazing. So we can say 葡者萄也/檸者檬也/疙者瘩也/繾者綣也 etc, right?


----------



## Skatinginbc

蜘蛛，網蟲也，作網鼄蝥也。
蜘（or 䵹），蠿也，黽 （i.e., 大腹蟲）之作網也（cf. 織） 。        
蛛（or 鼄），蟊也，以矛（i.e., 鉤刺）誅物之蟲也（cf. 誅）。蛛有作網者（e.g., 草蛛，金蛛）與不作網者（e.g., 蟹蛛，跳蛛）。 蛛之網絲稱「蛛絲」（蛛絲馬跡），有毒之蛛稱「毒蛛」。

「蜘」是個 bound morpheme,  「蛛」是個 free morpheme.


----------



## Jack12345

Skatinginbc said:


> 蜘（or 䵹），蠿也，黽 （i.e., 大腹蟲）之作網也（cf. 織） 。
> 蛛（or 鼄），蟊也，以矛（i.e., 鉤刺）誅物之蟲也（cf. 誅）。


受教，受教！即识蜘又识蛛，蜘蛛有别。



Ghabi said:


> 葡者萄也/檸者檬也/疙者瘩也/繾者綣也 etc, right?


葡通蒲，与萄是两种植物。
柠与檬是两种树木。柠皮浸酒后可作药。檬似槐而叶黄。
疙，可用于象声词，疙蹅蹅。瘩，瘩背，一种疾病。
缱，绻，都和丝有关。绻是弯曲的，如绻领。缱，暂未查到。但缱和绻相互可结合紧密，用以形容亲密不离，可见是不同的。
这种讨论已经超出原话题了。可以另外再讨论。


----------



## forgoodorill

Ghabi said:


> Oh my Lord, this is so amazing. So we can say 葡者萄也/檸者檬也/疙者瘩也/繾者綣也 etc, right?


 I quoted incorrectly. Sorry!And thanks for your reply.


Jack12345 said:


> 蜘，忐虽然日常是蜘蛛，忐忑的用法。


This is what I wanted to quote.
If you have other opinions, please reply.


----------



## Ghabi

forgoodorill said:


> If you have other opinions, please reply.


No, there's enough merriment to last quite a while (蜘者蛛也 is a classic), which is much needed in this depressing time. Thanks!


----------



## Jack12345

Ghabi said:


> No, there's enough merriment to last quite a while (蜘者蛛也 is a classic), which is much needed in this depressing time. Thanks!


 that's o.k.. It will be so useful in depressing time.
And did you see another interested phrase 既识蜘又识蛛，蜘蛛有别？

刚才百度查了一下，
缱，紧束，牵住。归舟挽缱多至二十多人《天工开物》
蜘，蜘丝马迹。清 沈德潜 《说诗晬语》卷上：“...自有灰線蛇踪，蜘絲馬跡。..."
蛛，《次韵王子钦》：“蚁穿万孔萃，蛛挂千丝扰。”
所以，我仍然认为汉字是可以单独使用的。因为字本身的意思是完整的。

多谢各位！这次又长知识了。


----------



## Skatinginbc

Jack12345 said:


> 蜘者蛛也


清代以來，的確有此傾向，而且越來越甚。 現代文章中，可見 
「*雄蜘*之毒性约为雌蜘之4倍」   「*雌蜘*體長約25~30㎜，雄蜘約15~20㎜」 「南通海关截获活体剧毒“黑寡妇”*红斑蜘*」等等說法。然而，我個人還是習慣「雄蛛」而非「雄蜘」，「雌蝶」而非「雌蝴」，「紅斑蛛」而非「紅斑蜘」，「彩蝶」而非「彩蝴」，「長蹠蛛」而非「長蹠蜘」...


----------



## Jack12345

Skatinginbc said:


> 清代以來，的確有此傾向，而且越來越甚。 現代文章中，可見
> 「*雄蜘*之毒性约为雌蜘之4倍」   「*雌蜘*體長約25~30㎜，雄蜘約15~20㎜」 「南通海关截获活体剧毒“黑寡妇”*红斑蜘*」等等說法。然而，我個人還是習慣「雄蛛」而非「雄蜘」，「雌蝶」而非「雌蝴」，「紅斑蛛」而非「紅斑蜘」，「彩蝶」而非「彩蝴」，「長蹠蛛」而非「長蹠蜘」...


多谢！多谢！这个还真是开阔眼界。


----------

