# Bulgarian: [semejn] , [vwal]



## SmilingInPrague

Hi. I'm finishing up a paper on Bulgarian phonetics. One of the references I'm using explains that in vowel sequences in colloquial spoken Bulgarian, front vowels will sometimes become [j] and back vowels will become [w]. They give examples but 1) don't give the original, formal phonetic transcription, nor do they give a translation to English.

The words are [semejn] and [vwal]. Can you help?

Let me say "thanks" ahead of time. This site has been FANTASTIC not only for helping with this paper, but also while I was learning Spanish.


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## boozer

I am not really sure which words the author of that article had in mind, but let me take a wild guess 

[semejn] sounds to me like /se'me:n/ семеен, which would mean "a man who has a family/a married man". If anyone pronounced that the way your paper suggests, I would conclude the person spoke some dialectal variety of Bulgarian. In the plural, however, /se'mejni/ семейни is perfectly acceptable and standard.

[vwal], on the other hand, sounds to me like the Bulgarian word for "veil", spelt воал. Now, I could easily blurt out something sounding that way, particularly in fast connected speech. Because we tend to "darken" our vowels, the standard way in which I would say it would be with a clear sound not dissimilar to the English /ʊ/ - /vʊ'al/. In a perfect world I might decide to even sound pretentious and enunciate a clear /ɒ/ --> /vɒ'al/. I would not, under normal circumstances, use the English glide /w/ --> /'vwal/. As I said, however, I just might do that nonetheless 

I sincerely hope I've got the words right and that this helps. I might add that I've not studied much Bulgarian phonetics (if at all ) and I am far more comfortable with the English phonetics, but I believe there are people here who are experts, unlike me.


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## Arath

I think what they are referring to is the reduction of unstressed vowels: */a/ -> /**ɐ/* or */**ə/*, */**ɤ/ -> /**ɐ/* or */**ə/*, */**ɔ/ -> /**o/* or* /**o̝/*, */u/ -> **/**o/* or */**o̝/*, */**ɛ/ -> /i/*. Although reduction of unstressed */ɛ/* is not part of standard language and occurs only in the eastern dialects.

I think the words are *семеен* - */sɛ'm**ɛ.**ɛn/ *- connected with family, domestic as in *по семейни причини* (for family reasons), *семеен живот* (family/domestic life) and *воал - /vo'a**ɫ/* - veil.

*Воал* could be pronounced as one syllable /*vwaɫ*/, but in very fast and informal speech.

As for *семеен*, that pronunciation is definitely dialectal and I'm not sure if it actually occurs, people from Eastern Bulgaria would say */s**ɪ**'m**ɛjɪn/* or */s**ɪ**'m**ɛj**ə**n/*. Vowel reduction does not mean syllable deletion.

You can read more about vowel reduction here: http://www.personal.rdg.ac.uk/~llsroach/phon2/b_phon/b_phon.htm


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## boozer

I am happy to see we are more or less in agreement with Arath.


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## Arath

boozer said:


> I am happy to see we are more or less in agreement with Arath.


And only seconds apart.


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## Vulcho

I think the original post was referring to transitions like: [moeto] > [mojto], [dva(d)eset] > [dvajset], [koe] > [kwe] and so on. The change e>j is characteristic mostly of eastern dialects though. For example, in Sofia nobody says [semejn], [znajʃ] etc.


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## Arath

Vulcho said:


> I think the original post was referring to transitions like: [moeto] > [mojto], [dva(d)eset] > [dvajset], [koe] > [kwe] and so on. The change e>j is characteristic mostly of eastern dialects though. For example, in Sofia nobody says [semejn], [znajʃ] etc.


Then why did they give these examples? I doubt that there is any Bulgarian who would say [*sɛ'm**ɛj**n*], people who reduce */ɛ/* to* /i/ *would do so in the first syllable /*si'm**ɛj**n*/ and this loss of syllable at the end seems most unnatural. I still think that vowel reduction is the more probable topic of the reference in question.


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## boozer

Vulcho said:


> For example, in Sofia nobody says [semejn], [znajʃ] etc.


 True, vowel reduction in Sofia is less of an issue than it is in Eastern dialects. The "better" speech of Sofians, however, is coupled with atrocious grammar. My ears hurt listening to them every bloody day. 

I tend to agree with Arath. In the Eastern parts, where I'm from, we would be far more likely to reduce the initial vowel in семеен - /si'me:n/. I doubt if anyone would ever say /se'mejn/ which, incidentally, casts a shadow on the validity of this article's observations.


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## Christo Tamarin

Vowel reduction means {1} less distinct vowels in unstressed positions and {2} lower quality of unstressed vowels.

There can be cases where reduction is not applied to unstressed vowels. We may assume that in those cases the vowel, while unstressed, is nevertheless lengthened. E.g., the final vowel in Vocative forms.  

Therefore, let us speak about vowels in a weak position. Weak means neither stressed nor lengthened. Thus,  *vowel reduction is applied to weak vowels*.

*Three different cases* are to be considered here.

*Case 1: A=Ъ*. In a weak position, nobody in Bulgaria does distinguish A and Ъ. These can be considered already as a norm while not yet codified. In a weak position, any of the vowels A and Ъ can be replaced by any of A and Ъ and anything between.

*Case 2: O=У(U)*. In a weak position, the "Eastern" half of Bulgaria does not distinguish O and U (Cyrillic У). In a weak position, any of the vowels O and U can be replaced by any of O and U and anything between. This cannot be accepted as a norm, however.

*Case 3: Reduction of E*. This is the most complicated case. We have this case in the word "семеен". There are no rules. I have not met scientific description of this phenomenon. I have just a proposal here. 

3.A. The reduction of E is an eastern feature.

3.B. All persons having this *Case 3* have *Case 2* as well.

3.C. However, some *Case-2*-speakers do not apply *Case 3*. (Everybody has *Case 1* in his/her speech.)

3.D. A weak I (Cyrillic И) can go close to E. Especially, in childish speech.

3.E. A weak E can fall in three cases:
3.E.1. It can be replaced by I (Cyrillic И).
3.E.2. It can be replaced by Ъ, preserving the iotation or the previos palatal consonant.
3.E.3. Both 3.C.1 and 3.C.2 are possible.

I do not know the rule when 3.E.1, 3.E.2, 3.E.3 occur. Native eastern Bulgarian just know.

About the word "сем*е*ен" (sem*e*en). 
There are three Es. The second E is stressed. The first E is weak and falls in 3.E.3. The third E is also weak and falls in 3.E.2. 
Thus, you can heар СИМ*Е*ЙЪН (simejън) or СЬЪМ*Е*ЙЪН.

Anyway, the recommended pronunciation is СЕМ*Е*ЕН.


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## osemnais

Christo Tamarin said:


> 3.E. A weak E can fall in three cases:
> 3.E.1. It can be replaced by I (Cyrillic И).
> 3.E.2. It can be replaced by Ъ, preserving the iotation or the previos palatal consonant.
> 3.E.3. Both 3.C.1 and 3.C.2 are possible.
> 
> I do not know the rule when 3.E.1, 3.E.2, 3.E.3 occur. Native eastern Bulgarian just know.
> 
> About the word "сем*е*ен" (sem*e*en).
> There are three Es. The second E is stressed. The first E is weak and falls in 3.E.3. The third E is also weak and falls in 3.E.2.
> Thus, you can heар СИМ*Е*ЙЪН (simejън) or СЬЪМ*Е*ЙЪН.



And then you have some dialects which replace all unstressed е and и with ъ: стънитъ (стените) движъ (движи)

I cant agree that unstressed и can be pronounced e, unstressed у can be pronounced o and unstressed ъ can be pronounced а
I wouldnt say and have never heard somebody to say
кобът instead of кубът
тродът instead of трудът
ведя instead of видя
ъгалат instead of ъгълът
Unstressed vowels are only lowered
As for words like
рибаре, викале, тръне, маске instead of рибари, викали, тръни, маски
this is a different story, some dialects use -е instead of -и to form plural.


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## Vulcho

I still fail to see how vowel reduction is connected to the transition of vowels into semivowels.

Anyway, what is so unusual with "кобът", "тродът", "ъгалат" etc.? These are possible variants for some speakers. Very common is for example "сигорну".


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## osemnais

Vulcho said:


> I still fail to see how vowel reduction is connected to the transition of vowels into semivowels.
> 
> Anyway, what is so unusual with "кобът", "тродът", "ъгалат" etc.? These are possible variants for some speakers. Very common is for example "сигорну".



I dont know for which speakers these are possible, they sound funny to me. Which dialect is this?

btw, people in Рако̀вски reduce even stressed о - they pronounce the name of the village Раку̀вски


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## Arath

Christo Tamarin said:


> *Case 1: A=Ъ*. In a weak position, nobody in Bulgaria does distinguish A and Ъ. These can be considered already as a norm while not yet codified. In a weak position, any of the vowels A and Ъ can be replaced by any of A and Ъ and anything between.



I agree that nobody in Bulgaria pronounces unstressed *А* */a/* or* Ъ /ɤ/* with the same vowel quality as the vowel in *дам* /*dam/*. Such pronunciation is not found even in the Western dialects and is indicative of a foreign accent - Macedonian or Serbian. The actual pronunciation is */ə/* or */ɐ/*. On the other hand, pronouncing unstressed *А* */a/* or* Ъ /ɤ/ *as* /ɤ/* is exaggerated and not natural, even in the Eastern dialects.



Christo Tamarin said:


> *Case 2: O=У(U)*. In a weak position, the "Eastern" half  of Bulgaria does not distinguish O and U (Cyrillic У). In a weak  position, any of the vowels O and U can be replaced by any of O and U  and anything between. This cannot be accepted as a norm,  however.


I disagree that this type of reduction is found only in people from Eastern Bulgaria. Let's take Ani Salich, a native of Blagoevgrad, lives currently in Sofia, a newscaster, speaks standard Bulgarian: http://www.crocko.com/A151419D750C42B7A6A013E8075076AC/vowel_reduction.mp3 

One can clearly see that there is a difference between the way she pronounces *по горите* (sounds a bit like *пу гурите*, but not exactly) */po̝ go̝'ɾit̪ɛ/*, and the way she pronounces *горски /'gɔrski/*. The two o's are not the same.

This file also demonstrates the reduction of unstressed *A /а/*  in* пътища* */ˈpɤt̪iʃt̪ə/*. And this is just a random example, the first one I came across. I used Audacity to make the file, you could do the same with other newsreaders.



Christo Tamarin said:


> *Case 3: Reduction of E*.


I am a native of Eastern Bulgaria and I don't think that reduction of *Е /ɛ/* to *Ъ /ə/* with palatalization of the preceding consonant can occur in a syllable preceding the stressed one. That's why *сьъмеен* */sʲəˈmɛ.ɛn/* sounds very unnatural and I've never heard anyone speak like that. I can hear people say */si'mejən/*, *дьевьът /'dʲevʲət̪/, важън /ˈvaʒən/*, but where I live, Stara Zagora, only old people speak like that. The younger generations use *e /ɛ/* in those positions (N.B. not *и /i/*), even if they reduce *Е /ɛ/ *to* И /i/* in other positions.

I don't think that *Е /ɛ/ *can be reduced to* И /i/* in vocative forms: *Иване, Станке*. 

I think there is some variation in the Eastern dialects, concerning this reduction. For example, where I live, unstressed final yat (*горѣ, нагорѣ, отгорѣ*) is not pronounced as *И /и/* by anyone (Stoyko Stoykov agrees with me: http://www.promacedonia.org/jchorb/st/st_2_b_izt_2.htm#podbalkanski), older people say *горьъ, нагорьъ, отгорьъ, *younger people say *горе, нагоре, отгоре*, whereas I know people from Plovdiv who say *гори, нагори, отгори*.



osemnais said:


> I wouldnt say and have never heard somebody to say
> кобът instead of кубът
> тродът instead of трудът
> ведя instead of видя
> ъгалат instead of ъгълът.


I agree, these realizations sound very unnatural to me and I think are hypercorrections, like *белети* instead of *билети*. People who have vowel reduction, when they try to use the standard language might pronounce, or much more likely, write these words.


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## DarkChild

I agree about the О-У thing. It becomes even more pervasive, Especially in younger people, in Western Bulgaria to pronounce the unstressed О as У. I've noticed that in interviews on TV.


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