# I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali



## GreenSug4r

Ciao a tutti tra qualche giorno voglio farmi il primo tatuaggio sull'avambraccio con questa frase "Non perdere mai la speranza. I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali" ecco però la vorrei in inglese così "Never lose hope. The best beggining can end up after the worst ending" ecco quello che mi chiedevo è secondo voi la frase messa in inglese ha lo stesso significato di quella in italiano? Voi come la tradurreste?
Grazie mille in anticipo!


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## Fooler

A me sembra però di leggere nella tua traduzione: il miglior inizio _può_ _finire/arrivare alla fine_......

Mio tentativo

The best starts begin after the worst ends/endings


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## GreenSug4r

Fooler said:


> A me sembra però di leggere nella tua traduzione: il miglior inizio _può_ _finire/arrivare alla fine_......
> 
> Mio tentativo
> 
> The best starts begin after the worst ends/endings



Il fatto è che non l'ho tradotta io, l'ho trovata già tradotta così infatti mi chiedevo se fosse giusta. E se mettessi:
The best begginning comes after the worst ending?
Oppure così
The best beginnings happen after the worst ends.


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## rrose17

None of the above sound very natural. The classic expression is "It's always darkest before the dawn" but closer to the original could be "The best begins after the worst is over."


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## Lorena1970

rrose17 said:


> "The best begins after the worst is over."


This means : "Il meglio comincia quando finisce il peggio"(we have the same) : it is not exactly the same as "I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali"


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## rrose17

I see. Maybe "The best beginnings follow the worst endings." Or to be a little poetic "The worse the ending the better it starts anew."


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## GreenSug4r

rrose17 said:


> I see. Maybe "The best beginnings follow the worst endings." Or to be a little poetic "The worse the ending the better it starts anew."


Mmm... I have chosen that quotes because i liked the words in english, and I don't like it anymore written as you wrote it. There aren't any ways for write it?( the quotes can also change a bit).Thanks in advance


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## Lorena1970

> Never lose hope. The best beggining can end up after the worst ending



_*Don't give up. Best beginnings come after worst endings*_

Personalmente il modo migliore per mantenere la tua frase è questo. L'articolo "the" non si può mantenere a mio avviso. Secondo me così funziona, ma visto che devi imprimerla a vita, un ulteriore opinione madrelingua sarebbe utile. BE forse...?


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## GreenSug4r

Lorena1970 said:


> _*Don't give up. Best beginnings come after worst endings*_
> 
> Personalmente il modo migliore per mantenere la tua frase è questo. L'articolo "the" non si può mantenere a mio avviso. Secondo me così funziona, ma visto che devi imprimerla a vita, un ulteriore opinione madrelingua sarebbe utile. BE forse...?



Si infatti prima di tatuarmela vorrei essere ben sicuro  Comunque questa mi piace, invece "can end up" al posto di "come" dici che non ci sta bene?


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## Lorena1970

GreenSug4r said:


> Si infatti prima di tatuarmela vorrei essere ben sicuro  Comunque questa mi piace, invece "can end up" al posto di "come" dici che non ci sta bene?


Secondo me non è corretto. "to end up" significa "finire/andare a finire/terminare" a seconda del contesto. "I migliori inizi finiscono/terminano dopo i peggiori finali" ti pare sensato? 
Qui il concetto da esprimere è quello del "sorgere" del "nascere" non del finire. Oltre al fatto che "can end up" non mi suona. Caso mai "may end up", ma non mi suona lo stesso perché non ha davvero senso qui, secondo me.


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## london calling

Lorena1970 said:


> _*Don't give up. Best beginnings come after worst endings*_
> 
> Personalmente il modo migliore per mantenere la tua frase è questo. L'articolo "the" non si può mantenere a mio avviso. Secondo me così funziona, ma visto che devi imprimerla a vita, un ulteriore opinione madrelingua sarebbe utile. BE forse...?


Invece l'articolo ci vuole. The best beginnings....the worst endings..... Fidati. 

E confermo che _can/may end up_ al posto di _come_ non funziona proprio: non ha alcun senso.


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## Lorena1970

london calling said:


> Invece l'articolo ci vuole. The best beginnings....the worst endings..... Fidati.
> 
> E confermo che _can/may end up_ al posto di _come_ non funziona proprio: non ha alcun senso.


 Almeno un chiappo l'ho fatto!


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## GreenSug4r

london calling said:


> Invece l'articolo ci vuole. The best beginnings....the worst endings..... Fidati.
> 
> E confermo che _can/may end up_ al posto di _come_ non funziona proprio: non ha alcun senso.





Lorena1970 said:


> Almeno un chiappo l'ho fatto!



Quindi la frase in definitiva direi che è così:

"Never lose hope. The best beginnings come after the worst endings."

come o comes?

"Never lose hope. The best beginnings comes after the worst endings."

E se volessi mettere possono arrivare così rimane corretta?

"Never lose hope. The best beginnings can come after the worst endings."

Ah, ne approfitto intanto per ringraziare tutti per l'interessamento e per le vostre risposte! Grazie davvero!


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## london calling

_Come_ (terza persona plurale). Anche _can come_ va bene, dipende da quello che intendi dire (è una tua scelta).


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## MR1492

GreenSug4r said:


> "Non perdere mai la speranza. I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali" ecco però la vorrei in inglese così
> 
> "Never lose hope. The best beggining beginning can end up after the worst ending"



We understand the concept but I don't think we have a similar saying in AE.  The closest is the suggestion by rrose in post #4 with "It's always darkest just before dawn."  Some other options could be:

"Every cloud has a silver lining."
"The worst is over.  It's time to start anew."
"So far you've survived 100% of your worst days. You're doing great.”

Phil


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## Lorena1970

Se usi "come" dai l'impressione di certezza o comunque di consuetudine ("accade sempre così"), se usi "*can* come" dai l'impressione di possibilismo, ovvero "può essere come no"


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## AlabamaBoy

I think that what we are struggling with in English is "endings."  We don't really uses "endings" this way, because it really isn't an "ending" to us. 

_The best [new] beginnings [often] come after the worst disasters/tragedies._
(This reminds me of a business saying: _The best promotions come after the worst screw-ups._)


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## Lorena1970

AlabamaBoy said:


> I think that what we are struggling with in English is "endings."  We don't really uses "endings" this way, because it really isn't an "ending" to us.
> 
> _The best [new] beginnings [often] come after the worst disasters/tragedies._
> (This reminds me of a business saying: _The best promotions come after the worst screw-ups._)



I was thinking over it. The "ending" of something is "il tramontare" or "lo scemare" , correct? Maybe "after the worst _*conclusions /finals*_" works?


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## AlabamaBoy

I wasn't clear. There is no story after an "ending." "An ending" is the end of the book. Finito. Period. Full stop. Perhaps if we called it the "end of a chapter" it would be different, but it becomes too awkward. The most natural way to say it in English, as rrose has already said is *"It's always darkest before the dawn." *You may have to settle for that. Or as _The Mamas and Papas_ put it "The darkest hour is just before dawn."


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## Archilochus

"The best beginnings follow the worst endings" is an example of a figure of speech called an "antithesis":  placing contrasting ideas together in a balanced fashion. I have no problem at all with it.  In fact, I find it rather elegant. I'd only change it to say, as AB suggested, "The best beginnings often follow the worst endings." Maybe the  best example of antithesis is Churchill's: "Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."


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## Lorena1970

AlabamaBoy said:


> I wasn't clear. There is no story after an "ending." "An ending" is the end of the book. Finito. Period. Full stop. Perhaps if we called it the "end of a chapter" it would be different, but it becomes too awkward. The most natural way to say it in English, as rrose has already said is *"It's always darkest before the dawn." *You may have to settle for that. Or as _The Mamas and Papas_ put it "The darkest hour is just before dawn."


AB, I understand you all but....If someone wants to express a concept differently from a set phrase, or, better, to create a phrase that suits its feelings/purposes/communicative intents, WHY is prevented from doing it, instead of helped to create a new sentence that satisfies his own pleasure (if it is not grammatically incorrect or meaningless, of course) ?


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## AlabamaBoy

@Lorena1970  My reasoning is simple: if a native speaker says something odd, the listener may accept it as a sort of new way of saying something. If an Italian (or any other native speaker) says it, he will be corrected and possibly ridiculed.

Therefore, I am strongly biased toward advising my Italian friends to stick with a common way of saying something rather than inventing a new way, even though it may be grammatically correct.

I appreciate all the Italians who put up with my way of speaking Italian when I lived in Italy, but I appreciate even more those who did not. Every time an Italian laughed at me, I immediately learned that I had said something that sounded strange.  That's why I made a point to talk to children at least once a day. They did not hesitate to give criticism.  Best of all were the ladies at the laundry shop. They told me I did not even speak a word of Italian. (But I would say the same about them. They spoke Triestino.)


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## GreenSug4r

london calling said:


> _Come_ (terza persona plurale). Anche _can come_ va bene, dipende da quello che intendi dire (è una tua scelta).





MR1492 said:


> We understand the concept but I don't think we have a similar saying in AE.  The closest is the suggestion by rrose in post #4 with "It's always darkest just before dawn."  Some other options could be:
> 
> "Every cloud has a silver lining."
> "The worst is over.  It's time to start anew."
> "So far you've survived 100% of your worst days. You're doing great.”
> 
> Phil





Lorena1970 said:


> AB, I understand you all but....If someone wants to express a concept differently from a set phrase, or, better, to create a phrase that suits its feelings/purposes/communicative intents, WHY is prevented from doing it, instead of helped to create a new sentence that satisfies his own pleasure (if it is not grammatically incorrect or meaningless, of course) ?





AlabamaBoy said:


> @Lorena1970  My reasoning is simple: if a native speaker says something odd, the listener may accept it as a sort of new way of saying something. If an Italian (or any other native speaker) says it, he will be corrected and possibly ridiculed.
> 
> Therefore, I am strongly biased toward advising my Italian friends to stick with a common way of saying something rather than inventing a new way, even though it may be grammatically correct.
> 
> I appreciate all the Italians who put up with my way of speaking Italian when I lived in Italy, but I appreciate even more those who did not. Every time an Italian laughed at me, I immediately learned that I had said something that sounded strange.  That's why I made a point to talk to children at least once a day. They did not hesitate to give criticism.  Best of all were the ladies at the laundry shop. They told me I did not even speak a word of Italian.




Ok I assume that this quote:

Never lose hope. The best beginnings come after the worst finals/endings. 

Is understandable but is not 100% correct because an English will never say this, right?
But if i change the quote with something like this? It is correct?

The darker is the night, the brighter are the stars.  (the original quote is: "darker the night, brighter the stars" but can I change like that?)
or 
It is often in the darkest skies that we see the brightest stars.

I want to add something before these quotes, because "never lose hope" doesn't have more sense. Something like: "When all gets dark don't worry" but I don't know how to say. 

Sorry for my bad english in advance


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## MR1492

GreenSug4r said:


> The darker is the night, the brighter are the stars.  (the original quote is: "darker the night, brighter the stars" but can I change like that?) (I would make one minor change to your one minor change!)
> or
> It is often in the darkest skies that we see the brightest stars.  (Sorry, it would work as an original statement but it isn't in our _modo di dire_.)



First, I've made a slight modification to your first suggestion. Please note that it isn't a sentence in the strictest sense but is phrased as if it were a saying or aphorism.  

I have to agree with AlabamaBoy on this one.  Sometimes the answer is "That's not what we native speakers say."  In this case, nothing comes to mind which is directly comparable to the original.  I hope some other contributor can come up with a better suggestion.

Phil


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## GreenSug4r

MR1492 said:


> First, I've made a slight modification to your first suggestion. Please note that it isn't a sentence in the strictest sense but is phrased as if it were a saying or aphorism.
> 
> I have to agree with AlabamaBoy on this one.  Sometimes the answer is "That's not what we native speakers say."  In this case, nothing comes to mind which is directly comparable to the original.  I hope some other contributor can come up with a better suggestion.
> 
> Phil



Sorry I didn't understand one thing "It is often in the darkest skies that we see the brightest stars." is correct? I don't want that my sentence is a "modo di dire", I just want that is correct, and doesn't have a wrong meaning or doesn't sound good in english, just this. Thank you!

-Gabriele


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## AlabamaBoy

I don't think it has a clear meaning. Sorry.


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## giginho

I can recall Brandon Lee sayin': "can't rain all the time"...could this fit the context?


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## MR1492

GreenSug4r said:


> Sorry I didn't understand one thing "It is often in the darkest skies that we see the brightest stars." is correct? I don't want that my sentence is a "modo di dire", I just want that is correct, and doesn't have a wrong meaning or doesn't sound good in english, just this. Thank you!
> 
> -Gabriele



Sorry, GreenSug4r, I have to agree with AlabamaBoy on this one.  Your sentence is grammatically correct.  However, it lacks context.  If you said it in the midst of a conversation where it might have some attached context or meaning, it might be understood.  It does not have any cultural or other context as a stand alone sentence.

As AlabamaBoy so nicely put it in post #22, sometimes the answer "We just don't say things that way," is enough.  We can't really argue with an Italian who responds "Non suona bene," to one of our attempts to write in Italian.  The answer in this case is that the sentence is grammatically correct but it doesn't carry any additional meaning.

Phil


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## Archilochus

If one puts _Non perdere mai la speranza. I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali. _in Google, one gets a bunch of hits. That tells me that this is a somewhat common aphorism in Italian. Now, with aphorisms, a certain poetic license is allowed, right? So, I stand by what I posted up thread and would translate this aphorism into English as, "Don't lose hope. The best beginnings often follow the worst endings."


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## AlabamaBoy

Archilochus said:


> "Don't lose hope. The best beginnings often follow the worst endings."


I believe this would be understood and it is grammatically correct.


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## sorry66

Some other expressions/ variations :
Sometimes things get worse before they get better.
The darkest night comes before the brightest dawn.
Beyond the blackest night the brightest dawn.
There's always light at the end of the tunnel.
Another day, another dawn.


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## GreenSug4r

MR1492 said:


> Sorry, GreenSug4r, I have to agree with AlabamaBoy on this one.  Your sentence is grammatically correct.  However, it lacks context.  If you said it in the midst of a conversation where it might have some attached context or meaning, it might be understood.  It does not have any cultural or other context as a stand alone sentence.
> 
> As AlabamaBoy so nicely put it in post #22, sometimes the answer "We just don't say things that way," is enough.  We can't really argue with an Italian who responds "Non suona bene," to one of our attempts to write in Italian.  The answer in this case is that the sentence is grammatically correct but it doesn't carry any additional meaning.
> 
> Phil





Archilochus said:


> If one puts _Non perdere mai la speranza. I migliori inizi arrivano dopo i peggiori finali. _in Google, one gets a bunch of hits. That tells me that this is a somewhat common aphorism in Italian. Now, with aphorisms, a certain poetic license is allowed, right? So, I stand by what I posted up thread and would translate this aphorism into English as, "Don't lose hope. The best beginnings often follow the worst endings."





AlabamaBoy said:


> I believe this would be understood and it is grammatically correct.





sorry66 said:


> Some other expressions/ variations :
> Sometimes things get worse before they get better.
> The darkest night comes before the brightest dawn.
> Beyond the blackest night the brightest dawn.
> There's always light at the end of the tunnel.
> Another day, another dawn.



I want this quote for a tattoo, so it doesn't need something attached, it doesnt need to be in the midst of a conversation or am I wrong? 

-Gabriele


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## MR1492

GreenSug4r said:


> I want this quote for a tattoo, so it doesn't need something attached, it doesnt need to be in the midst of a conversation or am I wrong?
> 
> -Gabriele



You are, of course, free to get a permanent tattoo with whatever phrase you wish.  All we have tried to do is explain that while your translation into English of the Italian phrase is grammatically correct, it does not have a cultural or linguistic anchor.  That is, it will not evoke in an English speaker any sense of "Oh yes, I understand intuitively what you are trying to say."  

We have had a number of occasions here where English speakers were asking for a translation into Italian of a phrase for a tattoo.  In many cases, the advice was that a succinct Italian translation with meaning did not exist and the persons making the requests were advised to not attempt a translation.  I believe we would give the same advice here.  The Italian phrase is pretty common according to a Google search.  However, there isn't a direct English equivalent.

So, a word to the wise would be to think long and hard about a permanent tattoo with a literal translation into English which does not necessarily express the same concept or have the same emotional appeal as the original in Italian.

Phil


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## You little ripper!

Another option might be:

_Never lose faith._ _The sun always shines brightest after the storm!_


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