# Persian: faraaham saakhtan



## She's Heavy

Nemidunam chera, vali natavanestam in fe'l ra peida konam. Che ma'ni dare? Aya in fe'l az zabaane amiyane miaye ya az zabaane adabie?
Az tavajohetun mersi!


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## arsham

faraaham saaxtan ya'ni mohayyaa kardan; to make something available, to have some thing at one's disposal; to prepare or have some thing prepared.


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## Illuminatus

Interesting.

In Urdu/Hindi, we often say:

_Kisi cheez ko muhaiyya karana_ = To make something available.

Does the _ya'ni_  in your sentence mean the same as the _yaani_ in Urdu?

As in, _Faraaham saaxtaan _*means *_mohayyaa kardan

_Also, is my interpretation correct? In the brackets, I have written what connection I made. It may be coincidental.

_Che ma'ni dare?_ : What is it's meaning? 
[kya (Urdu/Hindi). Also, Che~Qué~Que = Italian/Spanish/French for what] 
[ma'ni ~ mayna ~ meaning]
[dare - No idea!]

_Aya in fe'l az zabaane amiyane miaye ya az zabaane adabie?_ : Is it used in Informal Language or Formal language?

[_fe_ = _in_ in Arabic]
[_zabaan_ = tongue in Hindi, Urdu, used to mean Language in Urdu]
[_adabie_ = Urdu, adab]
[_amiyane_ = Does it mean something similar to friendly or informal? I see a strong Latin connection though. Amicable/Amiable/Amour/Amor/Aimer/Aimable/Amore etc.]

I don't know any Farsi, so I may be wrong. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun, and knowing that I possess a default Farsi vocabulary is satisfying.


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## arsham

Illuminatus said:


> Interesting.
> 
> In Urdu/Hindi, we often say:
> 
> _Kisi cheez to muhaiyya karana_ = To make something available.
> 
> Does the _ya'ni_ in your sentence mean the same as the _yaani_ in Urdu?
> 
> As in, _Faraaham saaxtaan _*means *_mohayyaa kardan_


 
Yes, ya'ni means "means", cheez (thing) and kisi (some one) are also Persian


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## Illuminatus

Thanks. I have edited my post and added a few more questions. Please have a look.


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## BP.

Illuminatus said:


> Interesting.
> 
> ...
> 
> [_amiyane_ = Does it mean something similar to friendly or informal? I see a strong Latin connection though. Amicable/Amiable/Amour/Amor/Aimer/Aimable/Amore etc.]



A bit short of time to comment on the entirety of your guesses, most of which are correct, but here _"aamiaan_ -عامیان- is the plural of _"aami_ -عامی- i.e. _"aam aadmi_, the ordinary joe. In Urdu we usually pluralize it into _"awaam_- عوام-, which is the same thing as _janta_-جنتا- in Hindi. 

Could you break down janta for me? _jan_ is obviously this, I'm curious about the ta. Doesn't look like typical Hindi pluralization, does it mean 'the state of being a _jan_'?


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## Illuminatus

Thanks BP.

I am familiar with the words _Aam_ and _Aawaam_.

At present, I can't think of a break-up for Janta.

The -ta suffix, called _pratyay_ comes from Sanskrit, where it is called the _iktah pratyay _(क्तः). It effectively adds a -ta at the end of words, and is usually used to convert adjectives to nouns. 

Eg. Safal = Successful. Safalta = Success
SahishNu = Tolerant. SahishNuta = Tolerance.

However, I am almost sure that the -ta of Junta is not this particular suffix. I will come back if I have an answer


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## BP.

Thanks, I learnt something even if not exactly what I asked.

But I can sense mods' axe coming down on me for digression of topic. Better take it its own thread.


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## Faylasoof

Illuminatus said:


> Interesting.
> 
> In Urdu/Hindi, we often say:
> 
> _Kisi cheez ko muhaiyya karana_ = To make something available.
> 
> Does the _ya'ni_  in your sentence mean the same as the _yaani_ in Urdu?
> 
> As in, _Faraaham saaxtaan _*means *_mohayyaa kardan _



We use <_faraaham_> in the Urdu compound <_faraaham karnaa_> = <_ muhaiyya karana_> = <_faraaham saaxtaan _and_ mohayyaa kardan_> in Farsi.



> I don't know any Farsi, so I may be wrong. Nevertheless, it is a lot of fun, and knowing that I possess a default Farsi vocabulary is satisfying.




 Illumin, we had Farsi as the court language and lingua franca for diplomacy and education in India till at least 1832. Motilal Nehru (Indira Gandhi's grandfather) went thru' a Farsi-based education and was a fluent speaker of both Urdu and Farsi. Also had deep knowledge of the literature of both languages.

Due to the almost 1000 year presence of Farsi in the various parts of the Indo-Pak subcontinent, we took innumerable words from this language (and Arabic) into Urdu. As everyday Hindi-Urdu (formerly called Hindustani) share a large vocabulary, many <Hindi speakers> use both Farsi and Arabic words daily even if they are not entirely aware of this.


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## arsham

عامیانه is an adjective from عامیان as BP explained. عوام is also used in Persian, we also have :
عوامانه = عامیانه
عوامانگی = عامیانگی 
عوام پسند = populistic
عوام پسندانه = populistic;populistically
and عوام پسندی


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## Alijsh

âmiyâne is from âmi and suffix -âne. This suffix means "peculiar to, suited to". It is a productive suffix. More examples:

*mardâne* (for men, men's, manly) e.g. kafŝ-e mardâne (men's shoe)
*zanâne* (for women, women's, womanly) e.g. lebâs-e zanâne (dress, garment for a woman), lebâs-e mardâne (shirt, garment for a man)
*mâdarâne* (motherly)
*baccegâne* (for children; childish) e.g. lebâs-e baccegâne (garment for a child)
*sâliyâne* (yearly)
*sobhâne* (breakfast)

@She's Heavy: in compound verbs made from "kardan", you can often change "kardan" to "sâxtan". It is more bookish. So, "farâham sâxtan" means like "farâham kardan". There are numourus examples: âmâde/farâham/mohayyâ kardan/sâxtan, nâbud kardan/sâxtan, ...


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## bakshink

Dear BP
By the way Jan means public- Jan Satta- Rule of the people- Jun Samooh- A Large group of people- Hujhoom- Jan Samaroh- Public Celebration- Jan Ganana- Counting of People- Jana-Gana-Mana- Adhinayak Jaya hay-- Indian National Anthem's first line- Thou the ruler of all the minds of the people- Praise ye


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## bakshink

From the above input from Alijsh Mardana, Zanana, Saal, Bachhe and Subha exist in Hindi/Urdu and Punjabi- Mardana, Zanana are spoken where Urdu is predominant and Saal, Bachhe and Subha are commonly used in in Hindi/Urdu/Punjabi


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## Alijsh

bakshink said:


> From the above input from Alijsh Mardana, Zanana, Saal, Bachhe and Subha exist in Hindi/Urdu and Punjabi- Mardana, Zanana are spoken where Urdu is predominant and Saal, Bachhe and Subha are commonly used in in Hindi/Urdu/Punjabi


The classic pronunciation of "-ân*e*" is "-ân*a*" form Middle Persian "-ân*ag*". It has been preserved in many dialects including Afghanistani and Tajikistani Persian. At that time when Persian was in India, we pronounced it as "-âna" too. 

So, that's why these words are pronounced as "-ân*a*" in Urdu, Punjabi, etc. It's the classic pronunciation.


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## BP.

^Oh thanks for the example. I had been reading your post 11 completely wrong - in French actually, omitting the trailing _e_! And understanding the words as plurals, at least for the first four.

This is only a dialectical difference. Many Farsi speakers in Pakistan too (and most Urdu/Panjabi speakers)  pronounce the trailing _h_-ہ as _a_ rather than _e_. E.g. _Zada_ vs _Zadeh_ for زادہ.


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## khodakhube

Salaam malekon,

Man dar forum no hastam vali mikhastam cheezee be "arsham" begam.
Fekr kardam che mikhastid "kasi" = someone beguid. Instead of "kisi"

I am trying to learn how to type in romanticized lettering but it is a bit difficult.
Sorry if I make any mistakes

Khodahafez


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## technical

mitavan az kalameyeh " to provide some body with some thing " ham estefadeh kard.


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## bakshink

We have analysed the thread a lot and learnt a lot. Here are another two words that catch my attention: 



She's Heavy said:


> Nemidunam chera, vali natavanestam in fe'l ra peida konam. Che ma'ni dare? Aya in fe'l az zabaane amiyane miaye ya az zabaane adabie?
> Az tavajohetun mersi!


Tavajoh- in Urdu means to pay attention or Dhyan dena in Hindi


arsham said:


> faraaham saaxtan ya'ni mohayyaa kardan; to make something available, to have some thing at one's disposal; to prepare or have some thing prepared


  Saxxtan – Sakta Hoon- (Can do), Sakna- Hindi (To be able to do)


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## BP.

bakshink said:


> ...
> 
> Saxxtan – Sakta Hoon- (Can do), Sakna- Hindi (To be able to do)



No. _saakhtan/saakhtan/soxtan_-ساختن- has nothing to do with _sakna_-سکنا.

_saakht_ means the shape of something. Also, structure. E.g. your sentence structure shows _besaakhtagi o barjastagi_.

It also means to fabricate or manufacture. I went to a locksmith and his machine read _saakhta e Irani_ - made in Iran. It can also be used for the design of something.


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## Faylasoof

Bakshink, by now you know this, but just as an aid to memory:

  <saaxt / saakht ساخت > in Farsi-Urdu is the same as <banaawaT بناوٹ > in Urdu-Hindi.
  But Hindi-Urdu <saknaa سكنا  ( & sakat سكت)> = <tavaanistan تواستن> in Farsi = to be able to. Different.

  [BTW, we use both <tavajjoh and dhyaan> in Urdu meaning <attention>. Won’t say more as this is not the topic].


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## panjabigator

Faylasoof said:


> [BTW, we use both <tavajjoh and dhyaan> in Urdu meaning <attention>. Won’t say more as this is not the topic].



But should anyone want, we do have a thread on this already: here.


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