# théâtre burlesque



## monsieurcheval

Est-ce que "slapstick" est juste pour parler d'une pièce comique qui utilise à la fois :
- la parodie de personnages tirés de Walt Disney (un méchant traitre et pleutre comme Scar)
- la parodie de comédies musicales françaises mais avec des chansons de Britney Spears
- des codes comiques visuels naïfs à la Chaplin (coups, chutes, tartes à la crème)
- un humour pince sans rire à la "Little Britain"

Nous créons une pièce de théâtre burlesque et prévoyons de la tourner en Ecosse, c'est pourquoi nous avons besoin d'un vocabulaire anglais précis pour monter des dossiers...

Y a des spécialistes?


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## akaAJ

Uniquement "des codes comiques visuels naïfs à la Chaplin (coups, chutes, tartes à la crème)", bien que "naif" n'est pas le mot que j'utiliserais à propos de Chaplin (ou de Keaton).  A "slapstick" is a pig's bladder device, dating back to the time of court fools/jesters, likewise formally foolish, but with a bite underneath.


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## carolineR

slapstick, à mon humble avis convient surtout à la 3ème définition  (coups, chutes, tartes à la crème) : voir ici


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## monsieurcheval

Merci pour vos réponses.
Oui, c'est ce qu'il me semblait, j'ai déjà vu les traductions de "slapstick" sur le site. En français, on range tout ça dans "burlesque", car comique a parfois une connotation négative (ex: t'es un comique, toi! tu fais du comique!")

Qu'est-ce qu'on appelle exactement une "Ha Ha Comedy"? J'ai vu ça à Edinburgh, c'est peut être le mot qui convient?


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## wildan1

> Title: théâtre burlesque


 
 en passant, EN _burlesque theater_ a une toute autre signification que son faux-ami français : _striptease show_ !


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## akaAJ

I think "burlesque theater" has been outmoded for 60-70 years as a USE technical term for s show where strip-tease and related routines are interspersed with bawdy slapstick comedy routines.


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## Camis12

akaAJ said:


> I think "burlesque theater" has been outmoded for 60-70 years as a USE technical term for s show where strip-tease and related routines are interspersed with bawdy slapstick comedy routines.


 
USE = USA??

I beleive burlesque is currently having a revival actually, try google for some news stories about new burlesque theatres opening (eg. in Denver)


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## wildan1

akaAJ said:


> I think "burlesque theater" has been outmoded for 60-70 years as a USE technical term for s show where strip-tease and related routines are interspersed with bawdy slapstick comedy routines.


 
It's back, AJ, right in your own home town:

This revival was pioneered independently in the early 1990s by Billie Madley's "Cinema" and later with Ami Goodheart in "Dutch Weismann's Follies" revues in New York. Today New Burlesque has taken many forms, but all have the common trait of honoring one or more of burlesque's previous incarnations, with acts including striptease, expensive costumes, bawdy humor, cabaret and more. There are modern burlesque performers and shows all over the world, and annual conventions such as the Vancouver International Burlesque Festival and the Miss Exotic World Pageant are held. (Wikipedia)​


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## thelittleblueengine

What if you combined it all together and called it

"slapstick cabaret" or  "comic's cabaret"

It sounds catchy and I think it captures the sense of your show without making it sounds raunchy (like burlesque)


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## Camis12

I think that cabaret sounds just as raunchy as burlesque unfortunately.

You could get around it by saying somthing like "a mocking comic review, ranging from the slapstick to the absurd"  ?

I have never heard the espression "Ha Ha Comedy"


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## wildan1

There's a very famous bilingual comedy festival in Montreal every summer. Maybe its description in English will give you some inspiration.


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## monsieurcheval

Thank you a lot, it helps me . I'll take a look on the bilingual festival.
"Cabaret" doesn't sound right. It's a play, with many songs. "Musical" is used for movies; is it right for plays?


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## Camis12

Musical = _comédie musicale_; can be used for stage or screen


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## akaAJ

Camis12:  I use "USE" to mean "United States (of America)" English, despite the well-established usurpation by the US of the name of two continents, "America".  Canadian English is something else, and English is also spoken in the Caribbean basin, with unique vocabularies and lilts.

Wildan1:  If burlesque returned to NYC in the 90's, it didn't make a big splash.  I have nothing against burlesque (I have a certain fondness for the work of the late Bennie Hill), but it was always low-budget (the fancy costumes were in Ziegfeld's Follies and some upscale night clubs, not Minsky's), a raunchy variant of vaudeville.


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## Keith Bradford

Just a note: the original slapstick wasn't a pig's bladder.  It was a pair of long flat laths fastened together at one end, carried by Harlequin in the Commedia dell'Arte.  When he hit people with them, the loose ends hit together making a loud 'slap!'

The term today means broad, physical humour: custard pies, pratfalls, clowning in general. This is thought to be funny.


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## Camis12

akaAJ said:


> Camis12:  I use "USE" to mean "United States (of America)" English



Aha, thanks  

(I'm still with Wildan on the Burlesque rennaissance though. further example: internation renown of Dita Von Teese)


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## akaAJ

I don't trust Google searches to yield reliable information, but the image of a fool/jester (fou/bouffon) slapping people with a pig's bladder on a stick is pretty pervasive, including references to Philip V of France and a 15th century poem, _les Souhaix du Monde_, with 
 "une épée de bois doré, ou parfois une vessie suspendue à l'extrémité d'une baguette et renfermant une poignée de pois secs"


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## spatula

Bonsoir monsieurcheval

You might like to consider describing yourselves as a 'variety' act.  This refers to a show made up of unrelated scenes which could include comedy, music, dance, impressions etc.  Carte blanche to do anything really!

Incidently, I'm in the 'burlesque is current' camp - it has defintely had a big revival in London and, as already mentioned, Dita von Teese is more than just a little popular!


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## akaAJ

Soit.  Dita von Teese meet Lilly von Schtupp.


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## monsieurcheval

Keith Bradford said:


> Just a note: the original slapstick wasn't a pig's bladder. It was a pair of long flat laths fastened together at one end, carried by Harlequin in the Commedia dell'Arte. When he hit people with them, the loose ends hit together making a loud 'slap!'
> 
> The term today means broad, physical humour: custard pies, pratfalls, clowning in general. This is thought to be funny.


 
That's quite interesting. We're from a clowning school.
J'apprends plein de mots en anglais reliés au théâtre, c'est génial.


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## monsieurcheval

spatula said:


> Bonsoir monsieurcheval
> 
> You might like to consider describing yourselves as a 'variety' act. This refers to a show made up of unrelated scenes which could include comedy, music, dance, impressions etc. Carte blanche to do anything really!
> 
> Incidently, I'm in the 'burlesque is current' camp - it has defintely had a big revival in London and, as already mentioned, Dita von Teese is more than just a little popular!


 
But they are not unrelated scenes... there is a story. It's a play with characters. If you mind, have a look on http://www.monsieurcheval.com/ecosse.html
I was describing the form, music, choreographies, but the content is a family story.


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## Camis12

What about simply "musical comedy" ?


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## Keith Bradford

Looking at your website, I almost get the impression of a *post-modernist pantomime*.  (That's pantomime in the British sense, of course, nothing to do with _le pantomime_.)


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## monsieurcheval

Keith Bradford said:


> Looking at your website, I almost get the impression of a *post-modernist pantomime*. (That's pantomime in the British sense, of course, nothing to do with _le pantomime_.)


 
Wow. Would you tell me more about that? And could you try in french too? I have no idea of it is... but it sounds definite.


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## Keith Bradford

*Pantomime* is a very specifically British art-form, created in about 1860.

It consists of a play based usually on a fairy-tale (Perrault, Brothers Grimm, 1001 nights...) or adventure story (Robinson Crusoe, Dick Whittington...). The hero is always played by a young woman in tights, the old lady (Aladdin's mother, the wicked stepmother...) by a man in a dress ("_in drag_").

The action deviates enormously from the original story to take account of modern jokes, references to television and film, variety sketches... There is a lot of music, singing and dancing. Audience participation is encouraged, children are invited on stage to sing... Everything ends with a multiple wedding.

Every theatre in Britain will try to put on a pantomime between mid-December and late January/mid-February, filling the house (and the finances) with an audience of children and their parents. The secret is to find a script that will amuse the children but have enough interest for the adults to sit through 3 or more hours. I believe that the most-acted play in Britain each year is Cinderella.

So a _post-modernist pantomime_ (my invented term) would be a new version of this traditional art-form.

(Désolé, je n'ai pas eu le temps d'écrire tout ça en francais, je suis en partance...)


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## admetus

Keith Bradford said:


> Audience participation is encouraged


Important à souligner. Pour un public britannique, c'est une partie intégrale d'une _panto _moderne.


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## spatula

As much as I adore the idea of a 'post-modernist pantomime', and this is undoubtedly be a term that would appeal to Edinburgh-goers, I'm not convinced that there's anything much of panto about this show. A panto does have very specific elements which I don't get from this (it sounds great by the way!). Presumably you're looking for a snappy, intriguing line to submit to the listings? Doesn't it quite simply fall into the 'musical comedy' genre? I can't see anything that would differentiate it from being in this category, and it would be your tag line that could expand on its theme or USP.


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## Camis12

I think I'm in the post-modernist pantomime camp.

Singing; parody and slapstick; modern elements used in a historical setting; adventure; appeals to adults without being unsuitable for children - all traditional pantomime elements. The only thing thats really missing is cross-dressing.

Provided it has a happy ending, I think Pantomime is appropriate


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## spatula

Camis12 said:


> I think I'm in the post-modernist pantomime camp.
> 
> Singing; parody and slapstick; modern elements used in a historical setting; adventure; appeals to adults without being unsuitable for children - all traditional pantomime elements. The only thing thats really missing is cross-dressing.
> 
> Provided it has a happy ending, I think Pantomime is appropriate


 

I'm not sure how you've arrived at that conclusion  ? Will the show cleverly manage to appeal to both children and adults alike?  Will the audience be not just encouraged, but _expected_ to participate?  Will the script allow for improvisation on the night to include anything topical or specific to the location / audience?

I don't think we have those answers, so for me it's not just the cross-dressing that's missing....


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## monsieurcheval

Actually the audience isn't expected to participate, even if the characters talk directly to it.

Post modernist pantomime is certainly an expression I could use to show off because it's a good invention 

But I've never seen a pantomime, so I can't speak about it. 
Is there any video I could watch on line?

About my project, "Gosh!", I'll have a video in twenty days. 

This forum helps me a lot, I love this site.


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## monsieurcheval

*I got it 

"In theatrical terms, ‘burlesque’ is a form of satirical musical-comedy which developed out of literary satire and opera and completely revolutionised the very notions and protocols of theatre in the early 19th century.  Best described as ‘Spectacular Satire’, a burlesque is a send up of a known literary, historical or artistic work. It a kind of ‘high brow pantomime’ - and it’s social history is fascinating. They are devised, planned and written to affect change in opinion or provoke a reaction. They are performed to tease – to make fun of some idea or notion whilst the costuming and casting of the performers are also notoriously subersive and often risqué."

http://www.kittie.me.uk/funny-ha-ha-or-funny-peculiar-a-guide-to-classical-burlesque/
*


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## Keith Bradford

monsieurcheval said:


> ... I've never seen a pantomime, so I can't speak about it.
> Is there any video I could watch on line?


 
Il faut dire que la plupart des résultats sur Google ne concernent pas du tout le "panto traditionnel".  Il semble qu'aux Etats Unis et en France _pantomime_ se confond avec _mime_ - pas du tout la même chose.
 
Un bon accès avec plusieurs liens utiles : http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/english/2008/12/sky-video-panto-season-lightens-economic-gloom.html.
Effet spécial: la coche de Cendrillon s’envole : http://www.wishtheatre.co.uk/uploaded/documents/Video/Flying%20Coach.wmv
Le collège visite le théâtre : http://www.teachers.tv/video/3186
Exemple de pantomime, Pinocchio : http://www.casttv.com/video/6h862e/colin-morgan-on-the-paul-o-grady-panto-video
Reportage sur le début des répétitions au théâtre de Mansfield :  http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1544147/mansfield_palace_theatre_panto_launch_2008/


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## wildan1

Keith Bradford said:


> Il faut dire que la plupart des résultats sur Google ne concernent pas du tout le "panto traditionnel". Il semble qu'aux Etats Unis et en France _pantomime_ se confond avec _mime_ - pas du tout la même chose.


 
You are right, Keith. To me, _"mime"_ has always been to _pantomime_ what _phone_ is to _telephone_--just a shortened version of the same thing.

Now I've learned about the BE _panto_ and all its clever aspects. Nothing like that exists here when it comes to Christmas shows--usually we'll just have a bunch of Christmas carols and maybe the Grinch that Stole Christmas. Those shows tend to be put on by children for their adoring parents and grandparents--so the tension on stage is mostly about not forgetting your lines and giving Mom and Dad the Kodak moment.


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