# All Dialects: possessive



## TheFriendlyArab

Hello again (I couldn't think of a good introduction)! I have a question and a problem. My problem is that I don't know the answer to my question! Okay, so you know how case signs are pretty much obliterated from colloquial speech? Then how do I go about the vowels that go with case signs when possessive suffixes are involved? For instance, take this simple sentence: "The boy and his friend went to school which would be written as: "الوَلَدُ و صَدِيْقُهُ ذَهَبا إلى المَدْرَسةِ" in MSA. But in dialects there are no dual conjugations or case signs (correct anyway). So how would I say "his friend"? Would it be "sadeequhu", "sadeeqihi", "sadeeqahu", "sadeequ" (since the final "haa" is often neglected) "sadeeqi" or what? It's not a big thing but I find I spend too much time when I read and don't know how to pronounce it. Also, I assume the same rules would apply to the other endings ("ee", "kum", "naa", etc.).


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## rayloom

Hello
It depends on the dialect.
However, for Urban Hijazi, there's a simple rule you can follow.

1) The dialectal short vowel before the possessive pronoun is the original short vowel ending the possessive pronoun.
sariiruk*a*/sariirak*a*/sariirik*a* --> sariir*a*k
sariiruk*i*/sariirak*i*/sariirik*i* --> sariir*i*k
sariiruh*u*/sariirah*u*-->sariir*u*h

Same thing if the word ends with the feminine marker -t-

2) If the possessive pronoun contains a long vowel, or the mim of the plural, the dialectal short vowel preceding the possessive pronoun is a fatHa by default, and the possessive pronoun keeps the original vowel in that case.
sariiruk*u*m/sariirak*u*m/sariirik*u*m --> sariir*a*k*u*m
sariiruh*aa*/sariirah*aa*/sariirih*aa* --> sariir*a*h*aa*

Except if the word is followed by the feminine marker -t-, then it isn't followed by a short vowel, instead it's followed by the possessive pronoun directly:
sayyaaratukum/sayyaaratakum/sayyaaratikum --> sayyaaratkum

That's it! (I'm trying to come up with a rule as I write!)
You'll find every dialect has its own rules. Some more complicated than others.


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## TheFriendlyArab

Okay, so how would Yemenis go about it, more specifically people from Sana'a (that's where my family is from so they all speak that way).


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## rayloom

From what I can tell (watching a few youtube videos), it seems to be the same. But the u is pronounced more like o. And the short a is pronounced more like a long a (stressed).
Maybe people more used to the dialect can offer more help.


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## skYlancer

I don't know how this all possessive thing works in Arabic.

hadha al sayara-te = is this your car? and how do i say the following sentences: 

What is your home address? 
I need your help please 
What is your phone number? 

TYA!


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## إسكندراني

ما *عنوان بيتك*؟
أنا بحاجة إلى *مساعدتك* من فضلك
ما *رقم هاتفك*؟
Search the forums for إضافة idafa for extended discussions


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## skYlancer

i can't read arabic. 

can you write the sentences in english?


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## barkoosh

The possessives in Standard Arabic are:

my: -i (pronounced "ee")
e.g: sayyaarati (my car) سيارتي

your (mas. sing.): -ka
e.g: sayyaaratuka (your car) سيارتكَ

your (fem. sing.): -ki
e.g: sayyaaratuki (your car) سيارتكِ

his: -hu or -hi
e.g: sayyaaratuhu/sayyaaratihi (his car) سيارتُهُ/سيارتِهِ

her: -ha
e.g: sayyaaratuha (her car) سيارتها

our: -na
e.g: sayyaaratuna (our car) سيارتنا

your (dual): -kuma
e.g: sayyaaratukuma (your car) سيارتكما

your (mas. pl. (3+)): -kum
e.g: sayyaaratukum (your car) سيارتكُم

your (fem. pl. (3+)): -kunna
e.g: sayyaaratukunna (your car) سيارتكُنَّ

their (dual): -huma or hima
e.g: sayyaaratuhuma/sayyaaratihima (their car) سيارتُهُما/سيارتِهِما

their (mas. pl. (3+)): -hum or him
e.g: sayyaaratuhum/sayyaaratihim (their car) سيارتُهُم/سيارتِهِم

their (fem. pl. (3+)): -hunna or hinna
e.g: sayyaaratuhunna/sayyaaritihinna (their car) سيارتُهُنَّ/سيارتِهِنَّ

PS: not all of them are used in dialects.


As for your examples, assuming that "your" is mas. sing.:
is this your car?
hal haadhihi sayyaaratuka? 

What is your home address?
maa 3unwaanu beitika?

I need your help please 
anaa bi7ajatin ilaa musaa3adatika min fadlika

What is your phone number? 
maa raqmu haatifika?


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## skYlancer

thanks bro. you really helped me here. 

little question: what do you mean they're not used in dialects?


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## barkoosh

Not _all_ are used in dialects. For example, the dual is generally not used, the plural is used instead. The fem. pl. is generally replaced with the mas. pl.


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## Abu Talha

Hi Barkoosh. Do the dialects also replace the first person possessive ـي by بتياعي or حقي?


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## barkoosh

Sometimes yes.


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## Schem

barkoosh said:


> Not _all_ are used in dialects. For example, the dual is generally not used, the plural is used instead. *The fem. pl. is generally replaced with the mas. pl.*



We still use the feminine plural in Guisseemi, although a little modified. I was always under the impression Lebanese was one of the few other dialects which use it too?

Perhaps SkyLancer can specify which dialect he has in mind so we can help him further.


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## barkoosh

Schem said:


> I was always under the impression Lebanese was one of the few other dialects which use it too?


No, we use the same possessive for plural (dual, 3+, mas., fem.)


Schem said:


> Perhaps SkyLancer can specify which dialect he has in mind so we can help him further.


Good idea, since he's asking about _spoken_​ Arabic.


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## skYlancer

Palestinian Territories (west bank)


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## Malki92

In Palestinian Arabic (specifically the Jerusalem and Galilean dialects) the possessives are:

My: -i
Your (masculine, singular): -ak
Your (feminine, singular): -ek
His: -o
Her: -ha
Our: -na
Your (masculine and feminine, plural): -kom (Jerusalem) and -ku (Galilean). You can safely use either.
Their: (masculine and feminine): -hom (Jerusalem) and -hen (Galilean). Again, you can use either one.

Blessings.


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## CZAREK

Abu Talha said:


> Hi Barkoosh. Do the dialects also replace the first person possessive ـي by بتياعي or حقي?



بتياعي؟  i guess u mean بتاعي-which  is used in Egyptian .I am not sure but حقي  but  sounds "Khaleje "for me
Levantine one is تبعي


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## Schem

7aggi is indeed Khaleeji/Hejazi, although I tend to associate it more with Hejazi. Guisseemi-Najdi uses (i)tbe3i تبعي, along with 7aggi which is more of a recent addition.



barkoosh said:


> No, we use the same possessive for plural (dual, 3+, mas., fem.)



I see. Can you please list all possessives in Lebanese? I'm determined on finding the source of my confusion.


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## barkoosh

Schem said:


> Can you please list all possessives in Lebanese?


My: -é
Your (masculine, singular): -ak
Your (feminine, singular): -ik
His: -o
Her: -a
Our: -na
Your (masculine and feminine, dual and plural): -kun 
Their: (masculine and feminine, dual and plural): -un


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## Schem

Ah, that explains it! I thought Lebanese had -kum and -um for the masculine but apparently not. These resemble Guisseemi feminine possessives -ken and -hen respectively which is why I was confused. Thanks for the help.


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## WadiH

Schem said:


> 7aggi is indeed Khaleeji/Hejazi, although I tend to associate it more with Hejazi. Guisseemi-Najdi uses (i)tbe3i تبعي, along with 7aggi which is more of a recent addition.



"7agg" is not a recent addition.  Our dialect uses both "7agg" and "tiba3" because they do not mean exactly the same thing (there are situations when one is more appropriate than the other).  Perhaps it is different in Unayzah nowadays, but generally speaking "7agg" is a genitive exponent of the type found in other dialects (i.e. it expresses possession as an alternative to the simple "idhafah" construct).  Tiba3 on the other hand is used more like a proper adjective (الشنطة هذي تبعكم?) though it can function as a genitive exponent as well.  Further evidence that "7agg" is not a recent import from the Hejaz is that Khaliji has "7agg" (though its meaning has drifted to something slightly different) and it could not have gotten there without going through Najd.

What _may_ be a recent development is the increasing use of the genitive exponent to begin with as opposed to traditional idhaafah.  I can't really recall ever coming across a genitive exponent in vernacular poetry.  Certainly, فرساننا sounds more "eloquent" than الفرسان حقّينّا.  This, incidentally, raises the question: how would you express "tiba3" in plural?


Schem said:


> Ah, that explains it! I thought Lebanese had -kum and -um for the masculine but apparently not. These resemble Guisseemi feminine possessives -ken and -hen respectively which is why I was confused. Thanks for the help.



The "-n" in Syrian-type pronouns are of Aramaic origin and apply to both masculine and feminine.


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## Schem

تبع is definitely used in Guisseem as a genitive exponent more than any other word. However, using the genitive exponent isn't as well found in Guisseemi as in Hejazi, for example, to begin with! Most Guisseemi-speakers I know maintain the idhafa structure to express ownership but they would employ both functions of تبع if they wanted to use a genitive exponent. Admittedly, the use of حق is also on the rise but it is mostly a generational thing where the older population (30 and up) would prefer using تبع and the use of حق in the younger generation is much more noticeable.

Thanks for the further clarification on Lebanese possessives, btw.


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## WadiH

I'm somehow not convinced.  Forget about adjectives; what if you are using it as a noun?  For example, how would you say something like شل حقّاتك؟ Would it be شل تبعاتك، شل تبعينك؟ شل تبعك؟

What if I want to say something like حقّاتكم أحسن would you reply لا تبعاتكم انتم أحسن؟

Again, تبع just does not seem to be always interchangeable with حقّ, which is why I find myself using both frequently.  I can't say that one is just a foreign influence or that only one of the two is really needed.


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