# Persian:ازما مپرس درد دل



## Shounak

*Hello All,*

Can anyone provide me the transliteration? Does this mean, *don't ask me the story of my melancholic mind. Trying a lot after many years I have kept my mouth silent.*


----------



## farzan

Hi, Shounak.

The first thing that strikes me as wrong in this couplet is the comma. With a comma placed where it is, the metre is disrupted by a caesura. I would write the couplet out so:

_Az maa mapors darde dele maa ke yak zamaan
Khod raa be heele peeshe to khaamoosh karde-eem_

_Yek zamaan_ to me suggests 'already': Do not seek to know of the pain in the heart of one (i.e. me) who has already used guile to be able to keep silent before you.


----------



## Qureshpor

^ Could one interpret it as.....?

Ask us not about our heart-ache; we who for a while
Have silenced ourselves in your presence with a wile


----------



## PersoLatin

Qureshpor said:


> Ask us not about our heart-ache; we who for a while
> Have silenced ourselves in your presence with a wile


 I haven't seen this before but reading it with a comma makes more sense to me.


----------



## Shounak

Thank you everyone.


----------



## Qureshpor

Shounak said:


> Thank you everyone.


You are welcome. Are you planning to have all the Persian couplets translated through this forum?


----------



## Alfaaz

Extra information: According to the reference here, this is a couplet by صبری اصفہانی and is written with حالِ دل in نسخۂ پژمان.


----------



## Dib

farzan said:


> Hi, Shounak.
> 
> The first thing that strikes me as wrong in this couplet is the comma. With a comma placed where it is, the metre is disrupted by a caesura. I would write the couplet out so:
> 
> _Az maa mapors darde del*e* maa ke yak zamaan
> Khod raa be heele peeshe to khaamoosh karde-eem_



I agree, this is corroborated by metrical scansion as well, where "dele" (i.e. del + ezaafe) is scanned short-long, whereas "del" could only be scanned as a single long syllable. They are not metrically equivalent. This is Elwell-Sutton's metre #4.7.14.


----------



## Shounak

Qureshpor said:


> You are welcome. Are you planning to have all the Persian couplets translated through this forum?


Not really. Actually the book contains those Persian couplets. Although, there is an overall meaning but still it is not clear. I am trying to clear those which are not very clear through the translation. Seeking all your kind help. Actually, Ghubar -e- Khatir is such a philosophical work that has enamored my heart. I am trying to work on that. Thank you.


----------



## fdb

Dib said:


> I agree, this is corroborated by metrical scansion as well, where "dele" (i.e. del + ezaafe) is scanned short-long, whereas "del" could only be scanned as a single long syllable. They are not metrically equivalent. This is Elwell-Sutton's metre #4.7.14.



_Az maa mapors dard-e del, maa ke yak zamaan
_
also scans (darde for long+short+short)
The harf-e ezaafat can be scanned long and thus occupy the place of two short syllables.


----------



## farzan

1. "The harf-e ezaafat can be scanned long and thus occupy the place of two short syllables."

I cannot see how that’s possible.

2. Was there originally a comma, is the question to ask. 

3. Also, ‘az maa mapors darde del’ is just bad, I am afraid. One can have 'az darde del mapors’ but not ‘az maa mapors darde del’.


----------



## fdb

farzan said:


> 1. "The harf-e ezaafat can be scanned long and thus occupy the place of two short syllables."
> 
> I cannot see how that’s possible.
> 
> 2. Was there originally a comma, is the question to ask.
> 
> 3. Also, ‘az maa mapors darde del’ is just bad, I am afraid. One can have 'az darde del mapors’ but not ‘az maa mapors darde del’.



1. That is how Persian metre works.
2. There are no commas in pre-modern Persian. It was added by the editor.
3. Maybe.


----------



## Qureshpor

farzan said:


> 1. "The harf-e ezaafat can be scanned long and thus occupy the place of two short syllables."
> 
> I cannot see how that’s possible.
> 
> 2. Was there originally a comma, is the question to ask.
> 
> 3. Also, ‘az maa mapors darde del’ is just bad, I am afraid. One can have 'az darde del mapors’ but not ‘az maa mapors darde del’.


Hi farzan,

1.  I shall leave 1. to other friends who are experts on metre.

2. No, I cannot imagine any Persian or Urdu poet, especially our older poets ever using the modern western punctuation such as a comma. The comma in this couplet would have been added by the author of the book or the publisher to arrive at the correct understanding, as perceived by this individual. I am of the view that the text should be left without such additions.

3. Here is an example from صائب تبریزی.

از ما مپرس حاصل مرگ و حیات را
در زندگی، به خواب و به مردن، فسانه‌ایم

I would think that both صبری اصفہانی and صائب تبریزی would/should be familiar with correct usage of language and idiom. After all, they were اہلِ زبان.

A further example, this time from حافظ

ما قصہ سکندر و دارا نخواندہ ایم
از ما بجز حکایتِ مہر و وفا مپرس

(I can't seem to type the hamza on type of the h in qissah)

PS. Apologies. I must have been typing at the same time as fdb!!


----------



## farzan

fdb, if by “long” you mean a pronunciation that’s virtually identical to the sound of ‘ee’ in the English word ‘deed’, or of ‘ay’ in ‘day’, then I beg to differ, in that this kind of modification simply never happens with _kasreye_ _ezaafe_. If you are referring to some other vowel sound, then I just haven’t a clue as to what that sound may be, in which case I hope you will choose to provide further details and/or examples of what you mean by a “long” _kasre_.


----------



## farzan

Qureshpor, thank you for the examples! There is a third example, if I may point out, right here in the opening post, which, in my view, goes as “az maa mapors dard e del e maa ke yek zamaan”, etc. 

The point is _darde del_ on its own is general and applicable or belonging to all, just as _hekaayate mehro vafaa_ and _haassele margo hayaat_ are.


----------



## Qureshpor

farzan said:


> Qureshpor, thank you for the examples! There is a third example, if I may point out, right here in the opening post, which, in my view, goes as “az maa mapors dard e del e maa ke yek zamaan”, etc.
> 
> The point is _darde del_ on its own is general and applicable or belonging to all, just as _hekaayate mehro vafaa_ and _haassele margo hayaat_ are.


farzan, for me either reading is fine, as indicated by Dib and fdb's comments respectively. With your version, my translation would not be much different.

Ask us not about the pain in our heart, since for a while
We have silenced ourselves in your presence with a wile


----------



## fdb

farzan said:


> fdb, if by “long” you mean ....



I mean "metrically long" (mutaharrik + saakin).


----------



## Dib

fdb said:


> _Az maa mapors dard-e del, maa ke yak zamaan
> _
> also scans (darde for long+short+short)
> The harf-e ezaafat can be scanned long and thus occupy the place of two short syllables.



Right you are, of course!! Sorry for my wretched oversight.  Thank you very much for correcting the records.

So, as fdb has very competently pointed out, the verse does scan both with and without the ezaafe after del. I was wrong to suggest otherwise.


----------

