# All Scandinavian languages: slagsmål & other -mål



## Arkalai

Hello

I was wondering why slagsmål = fight
If you stem the word - slag = beat/hit ... but what is mål? 

Or is it an independent word that doesn't come from those two morphemes?

Thanks


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## Södertjej

Had never thought of it. You also find it in words like giftermål (marriage) and I've always considered them one only word, not two put together. Mål has a lot of meanings that you can find on any good dictionary, like this one, recommended on the Resources thread of this forum.


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## Sepia

Its an affair or business of some kind.

Also used in "søgsmål" - which is a law suit. 

Tu sue sby - at sagsøge nogen

civil suit - civilt søgsmål


This, at least if we are talking about Danish


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## Södertjej

Well, mål by itself means that actually. Civilmål.


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## mnl

A very brief etymology can be seen here (in Danish):

http://ordnet.dk/ddo/ordbog?query=slagsmål

Not sure I'd know how to adequately translate the explanation mentioned on that page, though. Both "sag" and "forhold" can have many meanings.


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## Sepia

I have one more

Skudsmål

This is a hard one to translate. My grandmother - who actually lived in DK - used to have a small booklet, a "skudsmålsbog" - at the time actuall spelled "skudsmaalsbog". That was a document in which former employers wrote their references into - or at least confirmed when she had been or since when she had been working for them. That was not only a document to show new employers rather than something she should keep ready to show the police to prove that she had regular work. 

I would go as far as to say that "mål" as a standalone, is not translatable into modern Danish with just one or two or three different words.


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## hanne

Also spørgsmål, lejemål, væddemål, formål... (still in Danish. You haven't told us which language you have in mind, but it seems like the Danes have mostly hijacked the thread )
I agree with the others that the origin of "mål" is so old that it's not obvious in today's use what it really is. "Matter" or "issue" would be my attempts at translation.

PS. I think the school children used to get skudsmål as well, as a kind of report cards to bring home to show to the parents.


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## Wilma_Sweden

If I've understood the Swedish Academy's dictionary correctly, -mål is a derivational morpheme that usually converts a verb or verbal noun into an abstract noun. Others include dröjsmål, klagomål, trångmål.

In meaning I think 'case' is the closest to hand, like the Danish counterpart.

[Mod note]I have changed the title to suit the thread rather than trying to get the thread to suit the title... 
[/Mod note]


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## Arkalai

Wilma_Sweden said:


> -mål is a derivational morpheme that usually converts a verb or verbal noun into an abstract noun. Others include dröjsmål, klagomål, trångmål.



That might explain it. Looks like there are a lot of interpretations.
And thanks for changing the title, too.


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## vestfoldlilja

Mål is from old norse mál and in the cases of slagsmål, giftemål and many others mentioned it means:

Utsagn – statement, assertion
Avtale – agreement, appointment, arrangement
 Sak – case (legal), matter, cause, concern, business
Ærend – errand


From: http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/ordboksoek/ordbok.cgi?OPP=m%E5l&bokmaal=S%F8k+i+Bokm%E5lsordboka&ordbok=bokmaal&alfabet=n&renset=j


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## Lars H

"Mål" means originally the ability to speak (out) as in an assembly or in court. 

So, when used in "slagsmål" it first meant to take a beating/battery case to court. 

In the oldest known Swedish law, the Elder Westrogothic Law, compiled in the 13th century (but partly much older) there is actually a chapter named "särämalum bolkar". "Sära" = sår = wound and "malum" = mål = speak for one's case in court. The chapter regulates how someone who has been wounded can take his case to court.

A similar meaning is to be found in words like "giftermål" (announcing a) marriage, or "spörsmål" (to speak out a) question.

To make it a bit trickier there is another word "mål" in the Scandinavian languages, meaning to measure. "Måltid" - as in meal(time) - meant originally the measured or defined time to eat. And isn't "måle" Danish and Norwegian for measure?


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## basslop

When and where from did the meaning of *mål* as *finish* or *goal* appear?


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## Lars H

basslop said:


> When and where from did the meaning of *mål* as *finish* or *goal* appear?



I don't know how old the word is in this meaning, but "mål" as in "finish"/"goal" is basicly the same word as Norwegian "måling". 
If you measure something, target it or if you aim at it, it is not far from trying to reach it.

To "komma i mål, nå målet" means - i believe - to actually reach something that you have measured or aimed at (as a distance, a position or an item).


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## Sepia

I am beginning to wonder if all the different meanings of *mål* all have the same origin.

I mean, in German we don't have anything like this word in the sense of, matter, measure, target, affair.

But we have "Mahl", "Mahlzeit" which are the equivalents of "meal" in English and "*måltid" *in Danish. 

Could it be that it is only coincidence that two or more different words of different origins ended up sounding the same?


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## Lars H

Sepia said:


> I am beginning to wonder if all the different meanings of *mål* all have the same origin.
> 
> I mean, in German we don't have anything like this word in the sense of, matter, measure, target, affair.
> 
> But we have "Mahl", "Mahlzeit" which are the equivalents of "meal" in English and "*måltid" *in Danish.
> 
> Could it be that it is only coincidence that two or more different words of different origins ended up sounding the same?



Earlier in this thread, "Södertjej" posted a link that gave no less than four meanings of the Swedish "Mål". Pls see below:

http://www.norstedtsord.se/oversattning/engelska/?s=mål&l=SVEENG

The two first meanings, "Mål 1+2" have the same origin, (ability to) speak. The German counterpart should be "Melden" as in "Melden an" (Sw. anmäla)

The original meaning of the other two, "Mål 3+4", are in both cases target/ goal - related to both the German "Mahlzeit" and "Maß". A German counterpart to the Scandinavian "mål" (to reach the measured goal), would be Ziel (Sw. till) - "where you will be once your goal is reached".

So, to try to answer your question, my guess is that the two German words "Mahl(zeit)" and "Maß" one on hand and "Melden" on the other hand, shows that there are two origins of the Scandinavian "mål" and not one. 

But! This is really only guesses. Even though I get by speaking German, I am not very good at it...


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