# admirer of hers



## NatashaP

You are the most cultured admirer of hers.
You are the most cultured of all of her admirers.

¿Estas expresiones son correctas?


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## Vicario

Yes, both are fine.


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## NatashaP

OK. Thanks.


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## elianecanspeak

NatashaP said:


> You are the most cultured admirer of hers.
> You are the most cultured of all of her admirers.




I am uncomfortable with the first example, although "A friend of hers" or "a very close friend of hers" which have the same construction sound good to me. 

It may be a distinction between the *definite v. indefinite article* as a modifier of the noun.  

For me, "I am *a* close friend of hers" is a normal construction.
           "I am *the* closest friend or hers" sounds awkward and non-native.


_Addition 15 minutes later:_
I am now questioning my above reasoning in this post.

"I just found out that *the* friend of hers that we met last night works for my uncle" sounds correct to me even though it employs the definite article.

My problem may lie with the use of the superlative: "I am *the closest* friend or hers". 



Any other opinions on this?


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## NatashaP

elianecanspeak said:


> "I am *a* close friend of hers" is a normal construction.
> "I am *the* closest friend or hers" sounds awkward and non-native.


 
Interesante aportación.


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## inib

NatashaP said:


> Interesante aportación.


 Desde luego. Ojalá pudiera aportar más, pero Eliane me ha dejado pensativa para un rato.


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## inib

Claro, Eliane tiene toda la razón. Si es el admirador *más culto de todos* (superlativo), no es uno (cualquiera) de sus admiradores. Esto dificulta la frase y la hace torpe, si no incorrecta...hasta allí no me atrevo a opinar.


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## elianecanspeak

Gracias inib, por articular el razonamiento tan claramente.



_Por favor • no dudes en corregir mis errores : El perfeccionismo no es malo si no es obsesión  _


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## zetem

*You are the most cultured admirer of hers*. (incorrect)
"You are one of her most cultured admirers" (correct)

To use what is known as _the post-genitive_ properly, you need to meet two conditions: (1) The post modifier (hers) must be definite and human (her, in this case is both human and definite). You met this condition. Examples: an opera of Verdi's (correct); *an opera of composer's* (incorrect because composer is not definite). 

But you failed to meet the second condition. (2) The head of the phrase must be indefinite object, that is, one of the unspecified number (more than one) of objects attributed to the postmodifier. You used "the" and that violates the rule because "the" is not indefinite. The only exception to this rule is the use of demonstrative pronouns. For example: That daughter of yours was late again last night. There is no justice in this country of ours. This construction presupposes familiarity.


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## elianecanspeak

Zetem --

Why is the example below correct then? (And I do think it is correct.)

"I just found out that *the* friend of hers that we met last night works for my uncle"

Is it because it is the subject of the phrase?


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## zetem

elianecanspeak,

That example is not correct, as I explained before, but it would become correct if you replace *the* with _that_ or _this_.

"I just found out that *that* friend of hers (that) we met last night works for my uncle"


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## elianecanspeak

zetem said:


> elianecanspeak,
> 
> That example is not correct, as I explained before, but it would become correct if you replace *the* with _that_ or _this_.
> 
> "I just found out that *that* friend of hers (that) we met last night works for my uncle"



I still firmly believe that this example ("I just found out that *the* friend of hers . . .) is acceptable, but at this point I have absolutely no sources at hand to quote to back up my belief.  I will let you know when I  find something.


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## zetem

elianecanspeak,

To make you feel better, I may add that it is also correct to say 
"I just found out that *one of her *friends we met last night works for my uncle".
(one of her friends = a friend of hers)

My source is "A Comprehensive Grammar of the English Language; Randolph Quirk et al; Longman;(you may want to see its reviews on the internet)


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## elianecanspeak

I found the exception :

"A noun *with the definite article* can be followed by the double genitive* only when determined by a restrictive relative clause:* The friend of my father's who is going abroad"  (MIHAI MIRCEA ZDRENGHEA ANCA LUMINIŢA GREERE A PRACTICAL ENGLISH GRAMMAR with exercises second edition Clusium 1999)

(My own books are in boxes at the moment. This is an online reference that I found.  I can look for more citations if anyone wants them.)

(PS -- I didn't feel bad)


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## HallePuppy

One needs to be careful about using "admirer", because it can have a romantic or sexual connotation.  "The lady has many admirers."  Usually, they're not just admiring her fine mind!


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## elianecanspeak

HallePuppy said:


> One needs to be careful about using "admirer", because it can have a romantic or sexual connotation.  "The lady has many admirers."  Usually, they're not just admiring her fine mind!



I agree with you about the possible connotations. The kind of admiration felt by the admirers is often clear in context, yet if that admiration is romantic or sexual, it still does not imply that there was a sexual or romantic response from the person being admired (although that also might be conveyed by the context).


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## HallePuppy

You are right. It might be totally one-sided.


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## NatashaP

zetem said:


> *You are the most cultured admirer of hers* (incorrect)


 
De acuerdo. Y la frase _You are the most cultured of all of her admirers,_ ¿la consideran ustedes correcta?


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## elianecanspeak

NatashaP said:


> _You are the most cultured of all of her admirers._ *correcta*



O bien, "Of all of her admirers, you are the most cultured."
           "Of all her admirers, you are the most cultured."
           "You are the most cultured of all her admirers."
           "You are the most cultured of her admirers."


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## NatashaP

Gracias por ofrecer todas esas alternativas, *elianecanspeak*.


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## zetem

elianecanspeak,

Thank you for your effort, the source and the example. In my grammar book that example would not be a double genitive but a simple of-genitive:

"The friend of my father ...", 

But I think you can say: "The friend of my father's friend ... ", which has a different meaning but would be grammatically correct, according to my grammar book.

I take this opportunity to make the following correction in my previous posts.

a friend of hers  - means that she has one or more friends
one of her friends - means that she has two or more friends. 

Searching the internet I've found quite a few examples of the type "I am the only friend of hers". I think the correct sentence should read: "I am a sole friend of hers".

Thank you all for your attention.


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## HallePuppy

Your first way of expressing it sounds much more natural. The second sounds forced. You could say, "I am her sole friend," and that would sound more natural.


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## k-in-sc

No one would ever say "I am a sole friend of hers."


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## HallePuppy

No, they might not say it, but they might write it. However, they would probably write instead, "I am her sole friend."


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## elianecanspeak

The most common phrasing would probably be "I am her only friend" or "I am the only friend she has", not using the preposition.


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## k-in-sc

"*A* *sole* friend of hers" is logically inconsistent.


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## HallePuppy

You are right in that nobody would say, "I am a sole friend of hers," and I apologize for careless thinking. However, it would be quite usual to say, "I am her sole friend," using "sole" to mean "only."


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## morozco

[QUOTE _Por favor • no dudes en corregir mis errores : El perfeccionismo no es malo *si no *es obsesión _[/QUOTE]

Might it be _*sino*_, without the space? 

Hope to help, but please ask for another opinion


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## FromPA

I couldn't imagine ever saying something like "I am the most cultured admirer of hers."    It sound so much more natural as "I am her most cultured admirer."


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## k-in-sc

morozco said:


> [QUOTE _Por favor • no dudes en corregir mis errores : El perfeccionismo no es malo *si no *es obsesión _



Might it be _*sino*_, without the space? [/QUOTE]"Sino" would change the meaning.


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