# Ladino: Avram Avinu



## morgoth2604

I just heard a great song in Ladino, and I was wondering if some spanish speakers could help me out, I know it's not 100% spanish, but I'm guessing it's similiar enough.

Kuando el rey nimrod al kampo saliya
Mirava en el sielo la esteriya
Vide luz santa en la cuderiya
Ke aviya de naser Avram Avinu

Edit: The rest here. Jana


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## diegodbs

morgoth2604 said:
			
		

> I just heard a great song in Ladino, and I was wondering if some spanish speakers could help me out, I know it's not 100% spanish, but I'm guessing it's similiar enough.
> 
> Kuando el rey nimrod al kampo saliya
> Mirava en el sielo la esteriya
> Vide luz santa en la cuderiya
> Ke aviya de naser Avram Avinu


 
Cuando el rey Nimrod al campo salía
miraba en el cielo la estrella
vio la luz santa en la ("cuderiya" no se entiende en español)
que había de nacer Avram Avinu.
Avram Avinu
padre querido
padre bendito
luz de Israel.
La mujer de terah quedó preñada,
de día en día él le preguntaba
¿de qué tienes la cara tan demudada?
Ella ya sabía el bien que tenía.


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## morgoth2604

I was kind of hoping for a translation in English please


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## diegodbs

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Cuando el rey Nimrod al campo salía
> miraba en el cielo la estrella
> vio la luz santa en la ("cuderiya" no se entiende en español)
> que había de nacer Avram Avinu.
> Avram Avinu
> padre querido
> padre bendito
> luz de Israel.
> La mujer de terah quedó preñada,
> de día en día él le preguntaba
> ¿de qué tienes la cara tan demudada?
> Ella ya sabía el bien que tenía.


 
Sorry, I thought you needed the Spanish translation.
"When king Nimrod went to the fields
 he used to look at the stars
 he saw the holy light in the ("cuderiya" I can´t understand)
 saying the Avram Avinu would be born.
 Avran Avinu
 dear father
 blessed father
 light of Israel.
 The wife of terah (I don´t know what this means) was pregnant,
 every day he used to ask from her
 Why is your face so pale?
 She very well knew the reason why.


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## morgoth2604

apparantley the lyrics weren't written perfectly, it should've been la juderia.


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## diegodbs

Ladino is a mixture of mediaeval Spanish and some Hebrew words, I wonder if "terah" is a proper name or a Hebrew word that could make sense to you.


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## diegodbs

morgoth2604 said:
			
		

> apparantley the lyrics weren't written perfectly, it should've been la juderia.


 
You're right, "cuderiya" is "judería".


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## morgoth2604

Thank you for translating it for me, I appreciate it .


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## JLanguage

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Ladino is a mixture of mediaeval Spanish and some Hebrew words, I wonder if "terah" is a proper name or a Hebrew word that could make sense to you.


 
In the Bible, Terach is Abraham's father.


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## Bishop56

Juderia (or Djuderia, or chuderia) is the Jewish Quarter, Jewish city section


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## XiaoRoel

> Cuando el rey Nimrod al campo salía
> miraba en el cielo la estrellería
> vido una luz santa en la judería:
> que había de nacer Avram Avinu. [a-ƀrã-ma-ví-nu].
> Avram Avinu,
> padre querido,
> padre bendicho
> luz de Israel.
> La mujer de Térah quedó preñada,
> e de día en día él la demandava
> ¿de/por qué tenéis la cara demudada?
> Ella ya sabía el bien que tenía.


Te hago algunas correcciones (de memoria) en el poema.


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## HUMBERT0

Also if memory serves me right, Avram *Avinu* (from Abba-Father-Padre, in hebrew) is "Abraham my father / Abraham padre mio", like Eloheinu "My God".


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## Flaminius

_Avinu_ is our father.


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## XiaoRoel

En la versión que dí, falta *en* antes de *la estrellería*. Se lee con *seseo*, y la /j/ representa [*ʒ*]. Es también notable la africada proveniente de un alófono fricativo de la dental oclusiva /t/ [*ŧ*-_sobra una rayita_-] en la palatal africada /ch/, [*ĉ*], en *bendicho* (el fenómeno pasó a la grafía por sus implicaciones fonológicas)._ La /v/ _que en la lengua medieval reprentaba el _alófono fricativo de /b/,_ [*ƀ*], se pronuncia en _judeoespañol, labiodental_ [*v*], tal como en portugués o en francés, o como la /w/ alemana. Es fonema en la variante judeoespañola del español. Es notable también el uso, canónico y perfecto ejemplo para escuelas de español para extranjeros, el *uso de los tiempos* verbales del indicativo, los dos pretéritos que muestran todo el _valor de aspecto_ _imperfecto y perfecto_, y el uso del presente en la pregunta. El _estribillo es frase nominal pura_, la de las _verdades_ generales y universales tan frecuente en las paremias. El tono de relato de un suceso, el _tono narrativo de los imperfectos_ y en el uso del presente en la interrogación, como un _diálogo_. Detrás de _demandava_ deberían ir do_s puntos y un guión_ antes de la interrogación, o poner la interrogación _entre comillas_.


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## HUMBERT0

Flaminius said:


> _Avinu_ is our father.


Upss, then I didn't remembered it quit right. My Our.


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## Aoyama

> _Avinu_ is our father.


and *Avram Avinu *is a set phrase in Jewish liturgy.
Same thing for 





> Eloheinu "My God".


 Our G.od (Elohai is my ..).
For cuderiya = 





> Juderia (or Djuderia, or chuderia) is the Jewish Quarter, Jewish city section


 yes ... I had first thought about ciudadela (citadel) ...


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## mediterraneo24

It never occurred to me how christian this song sounds ...
it reminds me of the story of the birth of christ for some reason


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## rje10

diegodbs said:


> Sorry, I thought you needed the Spanish translation.
> "When king Nimrod went to the fields
> he used to look at the stars
> he saw the holy light in the ("cuderiya" I can´t understand)
> saying the Avram Avinu would be born.
> Avran Avinu
> dear father
> blessed father
> light of Israel.
> The wife of terah (I don´t know what this means) was pregnant,
> every day he used to ask from her
> Why is your face so pale?
> She very well knew the reason why.


Terah is known as Abraham's father; therefore "the wife of Terah" would be Abraham's mother.
Terah is reputed to have been the owner of a shop that sold idols. One day, young Abraham (then known as Avram, or Abram) smashed all the idols in his father's shop. When his father asked who did it, Avram replied that one of the idols broke all the others. When Terah responded that was impossible, Avram asked his father why he (Terah) believed in idols. Abraham is known as the first person to believe in one God. Because of this, he is thought of as "Avram Avinu" "Abraham our father" of monotheistic religions, especially the first monotheistic religion, which is Judaism.


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## Αγγελος

If "cuderiya" is to be corrected to "judería", it is surprising that the author imagined a Jewish neighborhood, not to say a ghetto, in Abraham's times!
Could it possibly mean something like "the women's rooms" or "the birthing room"? I don't know much Spanish and can't think of a possible etymology, but "cudería" or "cuderilla" certainly looks more like Spanish than like Hebrew.


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## Haskol

I think it should be "Avraham Avinu"...not "Avram".

And judería does mean Jewish quarter here, which is what makes the song so cute - that the author couldn't help but imagine Abraham being born in the Jewish quarter, which is more relevant to the time the author than to Abraham's time. It's actually a pretty common phenomenon in Midrash - the author re-imagines the ancient figures living in a reality that is more similar to his own, either because he couldn't help doing it or to make the story feel more relevant to the reality he and his audience lived in.


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## elianecanspeak

This is a very well known traditional Ladino song with many more verses than those commonly cited. There are a number of similar versions, many of them abridged;  because it was traditionally sung at the _bris,_ (the circumcision at the age of eight days), there are variations that included slightly different words, etc. and reflect the diverse dialects of Ladino, both in Spain and in the diaspora after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492.

I have a version with sixteen verses.

This song, like the idea of a "channukah bush" or the desire to celebrate the passover seder in many Christian churches, is an example of the cross-cultural borrowing that occurs between communities in close proximity.  (And note that these borrowings go both ways.) The Christian story of the birth of Jesus which includes Herod's decree that the male Jewish babies should be killed is a reworking of the story of Moses' birth when Pharaoh attempts to have all Jewish male children killed at birth. "Kwando el rey Nimrod" reclaims Jewish ownership and reset this as part of the tale of Abraham's birth.

In the longer version that I have the tale continues with Terach's wife retreating to a desert cave to give birth in secret to protect the child from Nimrod.  The newborn child speaks to her and asks her to leave because he has an angel who will protect him.  When she returns after twenty days she searches for her son and speaks with a young man, who turns out to be her son Abraham, who has matured this quickly in her absence.  King Nimrod discovers him and has him thrown into a burning furnace (see Daniel story) and the angels protect him.  The final verses extol the merit of the father who is bringing his child into the covenant and the _mohel _(who does the ritual circomcision), who are fulfilling the commandments of Abraham avinu, Abraham, our father.

On the use of the anachronistic term _"judería"_ :  While there were obviously no juderías as such in the time of Abraham since Abraham himself was the father of the Jewish people, it firmly anchors the event in the domain of the contemporary Jewish community, and may be used in the song simply as a reference Terach's neighborhood (where he worked constructing idols, which would account for his wife's reticence about letting him know she is pregnant). It is also a reclaiming of the motif of the Jesus birth story, although Abraham is not born in a section of the city, but in the desert cave.  This disparity is probably also due to the addition of new verses or changes in lyrics through time.

NB: Because of the multiple transliteration systems for Ladino, a good search to use is *"kwando OR cuando OR quando el rey Nimrod" *if you want to look it up online*;*  I found 30,000+ hits.


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