# serpillisation



## johnlknight

I’m trying understand what the word "serpillisation" means. Since it’s in quotations marks in the original speech (a plaidoirie) and is not in any dictionaries I assume the word was invented for the occasion. The quote is from here.

Que sont les mots d'avocat pour raconter la nuit des âmes, l'assassinat des enfants, la déchirure d'une mère, d'un père, les trains à bestiaux humains, les camps industriels de la destruction, la *« serpillisation »* des hommes, que sont les mots pour dire ce que les mots n'avaient jamais imaginé ?​
Google translates it as “mucking”; perhaps related to the word “serpillière”?


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## Michelvar

Hi,

It's not a real word, it's made from "serpillère" indeed. It means the transformation of human beings into mops, into things you can use to clean mud the floor (thank you Itisi)


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## Itisi

...to clean the floor


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## Michelvar

How would you say it in English? Would "mopization" be a possibility?


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## johnlknight

Michelvar said:


> How would you say it in English? Would "mopization" be a possibility?



No, that sounds nonsensical. Right now nothing occurs to me. I think I'd just change the sentence to something like "the crushing of men," which given the context would appear apt.


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## Itisi

'the total degradation of human beings'?


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## johnlknight

Itisi said:


> 'the total degradation of human beings'?


Yes, something like that; however, I assume this was a word used to refer something specific – some type of act or practice - earlier on in the trial, so, ideally, it would be helpful to have that context. Since this is referring to something that occurred during the Holocaust, it’s not clear whether this word is used to describe some sort of psychological degradation or actual physical annihilation (or both).


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## Itisi

johnlknight said:


> it’s not clear whether this word is used to describe some sort of psychological degradation or actual physical annihilation (or both).





johnlknight said:


> I assume this was a word used to refer something specific – some type of act or practice


No, it doesn't refer to anything specific, it's an image; so unless you can find an equivalent image, 'total degradation' covers all of that.


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## johnlknight

Itisi said:


> No, it doesn't refer to anything specific, it's an image; so unless you can find an equivalent image, 'total degradation' covers all of that.


Agreed. Many thanks.


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## moustic

Dehumanisation.


> *dehumanization,
> also UK: dehumanisation* _n_ (making [sb] appear less than human) (_d'une personne_)déshumanisation _nf_ The dehumanization of Jews was a contributing factor of the Holocaust.


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## petit1

people being reduced to a state of mere floorcloths


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## Itisi

...to* the* state of mere floorcloths

(Personally, I find that image very strange, rather incongruous, in the context of the Holocaust and would prefer to get rid of it...)

PS - On reflection, it's an example of the speeh of a very famous barrister, and the word is in quotation marks, so I guess the floorcloth image ought to be kept, in quotation marks...


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## petit1

people tread upon like doormats ?


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## Itisi

*petit1*, I find that image weaker and less accurate than your previous one.


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## wildan1

petit1 said:


> people being reduced to a state of mere floorcloths


The term _"floorcloth"_ is an accurate translation describing _une serpillère_, but since those cloths are not used in English-speaking countries, the image is not conveyed.

We use _mops_ to clean floors.


johnlknight said:


> Google translates it as “mucking”


_"Mucking"_ refers specifically to cleaning out horse stalls, not the inside of houses. 

But perhaps that is the image to convey. You use a shovel to muck (not a mop).


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## lentulax

wildan1 said:


> he term _"floorcloth"_ is an accurate translation describing _une serpillère_, but since those cloths are not used in English-speaking countries



Well, they are in the UK - 'A *floorcloth*, or *floor-cloth*, is a cloth, normally of flannel, used for cleaning floors' - though maybe in some Eng
lish-speaking countries like the USA the word is only used to mean a floor-covering.


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## wildan1

Sorry, I should have been more specific about my opinion--but you won't see anyone use (or even know about) serpillères/floorcloths in North America.

In Canada _a mop _is sometimes known in FR as _une moppe (une vadrouille _; in France,_ un balai à franges). _That is what we usually use to clean a floor or clean up spilled liquid.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

"sweeping away human beings/lives", "sweeping human beings out of existence"? I'm afraid I can't come up with (invent) one word.


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## Itisi

Sorry, but 'mop' sounds silly and 'sweeping away' is not the right image, so I suggest either 'using human beings like cloths to clean the floor with', or forget the image...


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## wildan1

Itisi said:


> using human beings like cloths to clean the floor with'


Or, in North America, _using humans to mop up the floor _(ugh).


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## Itisi

wildan1 said:


> using humans to mop up the floor


To me, that sounds as if the humans are going around with mops cleaning the floor...  (and, 'mop_ up_' means that the floor is wet and that the mop is absorbing the water...)


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

But what is mopped up? The dirty water, which is then disposed of. The writer is equating the people who are 'disposed of' to the liquid 'filth' that is removed to keep the floor (the country) 'clean'. Think of "mopping up'' military operations, in which the last elements of enemy resistance (humans) are 'removed', 'eliminated'.


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## Itisi

*aint't*, no, it means that human beings are being compared to rags you wash the floor with and wring out. A bit like saying that a person is a doormat people wipe their feet on, but not quite, because 'doormat' is linked with the idea of someone who doesn't stand up for him/herself; but here it's alot worse. (I personally find the image ridiculous and trivial in the context of the Holocaust, but that's what the man said...)

PS - 'Serpillère' is just the rag, whereas 'mop' is the whole thing with the stick.


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## lentulax

Itisi said:


> that's what the man said


Do you say this (given that the word's made up) because the form of 'serpillisation' can only mean 'the turning (of men) into mops' rather than 'the mopping-up (of men)' - perhaps because if the author meant the latter he'd have had more obvious alternatives ('serpillage' ??) ? I ask not only because the idea of describing  the Nazi treatment of the Jews during the Holocaust as 'using them as cloths to clean the floor' seems in itself ludicrous (or 'strange' and 'ridiculous' as you say yourself), but also because the notion that a barrister renowned for his eloquence felt that this image was so precise and apposite that he had to make up a word to communicate it seems beyond ludicrous.  Since , however carefully they prepare, barristers are essentially improvising when addressing the court, perhaps this one simply didn't get it quite right ?  What exactly is the source of the quotation - I don't imagine that around 70 years ago recordings were made of court proceedings or verbatim records made available - might there be any possibility of error there?
EDIT it occurs to me now that trials of war criminals for complicity in murdering Jews sometimes occurred decades later - e.g. the famous trial of Klaus Barbie (eighties).


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## johnlknight

lentulax said:


> the famous trial of Klaus Barbie (eighties).



The quote is from the Klaus Barbie trial. See the link to the google books pages I provided in my original post.


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## Itisi

lentulax said:


> Do you say this because the form of 'serpillisation' can only mean 'the turning (of men) into mops'


No, that is not what I said.


Itisi said:


> 'Serpillère' is just the rag, whereas 'mop' is the whole thing with the stick.


'serpillère' is what is known in be BE as *a 'floorcloth',* *not a mop*. 'Serpillisation' can only mean' the turning (of men) into floorcloths'. This I can guarantee.

And 'the mopping-up of men' doesn't make sense in the context of the Holocaust.  Using men as floorcloths does make sense, even if the image is not the best.

PS - * aint't* says "Think of "mopping up'' military operations,"  This image doesn't exist in French.


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## lentulax

Itisi said:


> 'serpillère' is what is known in be BE as *a 'floorcloth',* *not a mop*. 'Serpillisation' can only mean' the turning (of men) into floorcloths'. This I can guarantee.


1st point - sorry, just carelessness on my part; should have said 'floorcloth'; 2nd point - that's what I was asking - thanks.
I accept what you say on this, though I still think that aint't's interpretation, reflecting the notion common to much extreme prejudice that the object of the prejudice is filth, a source of contamination, etc., is the natural one for an English speaker unsure about serpillisation , and perfectly intelligible in the context of the holocaust; however, if it can't mean that, that's the end of the matter.



johnlknight said:


> See the link to the google books pages I provided in my original post.


I did click on the link ; but it didn't allow access to content, and being a collection of famous speeches from court proceedings, there was no clue as to the sources of the individual items (and I did start off by assuming the date of this one had to be just post-war).


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## johnlknight

lentulax said:


> I did click on the link ; but it didn't allow access to content, and being a collection of famous speeches from court proceedings, there was no clue as to the sources of the individual items (and I did start off by assuming the date of this one had to be just post-war).



I sometimes find google books allows access to content if I put the browser in incognito/private mode . Regardless, if for some reason you're interested, I'd be happy to scan and send you the relevant pages of the book.


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## Itisi

lentulax said:


> aint't's interpretation (...) that the object of the prejudice is filth, a source of contamination, etc., is perfectly intelligible in the context of the holocaust (...)


That's true. 

 I hadn't thought of mentioning that there is an expression 'Traiter quelqu'un comme une serpillère'.  Byt it's usually used in less extreme situations than the Holocaust.

Another thought, using an image: 'treating humans like vermin'; this corresponds better to the Holocaust situation, but is not a very accurate translation.


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## Rominet

In rough language, it could be "treating men like shit". But it looks to me out of the context of the initial text. But if it can help to find something else.
Or something like "downgrading men to mopping" ?
Cheers


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

You see, I thought "serpillisation" might be replaced by "balayage" or (whatever the noun that corresponds to the verb "éponger" is, if such a word exists).


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## lentulax

johnlknight said:


> I sometimes find google books allows access to content if I put the browser in incognito/private mode . Regardless, if for some reason you're interested, I'd be happy to scan and send you the relevant pages of the book.


Thanks - private message sent.


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## Reynald

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> You see, I thought "serpillisation" might be replaced by "balayage" or (whatever the noun that corresponds to the verb "éponger" is, if such a word exists).


That's how I understand this image, except that I would use the word _nettoyage. Serpillisation = nettoyage à la serpillère. _To me, it echoes the expression_ nettoyage ethnique _(ethnic cleansing)_. _Metaphorically,_ serpillisation_ could describe the action of the nazis.
(And_ nettoyage d'un lieu _is also used in a military context in French, the same way as in English - cf. your #22).


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## Topsie

In such conditions, the _*human rag*_ has only one hope left….it wants to die. ... The inmates were treated more like animals than humans by the Nazis.
Source: Auschwitz: The Camp of Death – Holocaust Teacher Resource Center


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## Itisi

Topsie said:


> the _*human rag*_


Voilà !


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Itisi said:


> Voilà !



Yep; worked till no longer useful/productive, then discarded (killed).


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## Itisi

What happened to the Jews during the Holocaust: "most of them were either shot, killed in gas chambers of worked to death."

*Mop up*: to clear (an area) of remaining pockets of resistance in the wake of a military offensive

Not the same thing.


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## much_rice

What a fascinating thread! I think it's going to be difficult to translate because there's no way you can sneak an -ization word in that doesn't sound ludicrous. So your best bet is to convey the barrister's intention, and as close as possible his metaphor, but without a neologism. I recommend:

_human beings turned into rag-mops_

Since we don't use floorcloths (at least not in the USA), this is the nearest equivalent, and also has an echo of the degradation inherent in the word "rag." A mop alone is too cheery sounding; but "rags" are the proverbial clothes of the extremely poor. As others have hinted, I think there's a suppressed reference to the Nazis' own cleaning and purity metaphors, but the main meaning is that the Jews were forced into contact with filth (squalid conditions in the camps) and were then "discarded" like any household item that had outworn its usefulness.

If you want a little more pathos, then perhaps

_men degraded into rag-mops_


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## Itisi

If I see the word 'mop' again', I will get my mop out!  'Serpillère' is not 'mop'.



*mop* _n_(floor-cleaning tool)balai à franges _nm_(_Belg, Can_)mope _nf__Note_: En France, plutôt qu'un balai à franges, on utilise souvent un balai-brosse avec une serpillière.


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## Topsie

Suggestion: ...men reduced to the state of "human rags"...


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## Itisi

Yes, or 'men/human beings reduced to the state of rags'

And it's not to do with cleaning/cleansing, but with degradation..


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