# Lies



## Poetic Device

How much is an insult is lying in your culture?  To you personally?  What steps do you as a person or in your culture do you take towards whoever lied to you?  I'm not talking about the "Oh, I forgot it's your birthday" in order to cover up a surprise party lie, either.


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## JamesM

Can you be more specific about the type of lie you do mean?  I think this is an interesting topic.


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## Poetic Device

Scenario one:  If you ask if something is wrong when it is obvious and they say no.

Scenario two:  said person does something wrong, be it stealing or whatever, and then lies about it.

Scenario three:  You do/did something that hurt or offended said person and they lie about it being forgotten only to bring it up later.

These are examples, but if you can think of any other instance it would be good.


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## nanel

Just my personal point of view.



Poetic Device said:


> Scenario one: If you ask if something is wrong when it is obvious and they say no.


 I wish they would say the truth, but this is the most common thing ever.



> Scenario two: said person does something wrong, be it stealing or whatever, and then lies about it.


 Depends on who that person is. If it's my child, we'd have an 'interesting' conversation. If it's someone I don't really know I wouldn't care. If they stole from me then I'd find them lying about it very normal, but I'd have to call the police.



> Scenario three: You do/did something that hurt or offended said person and they lie about it being forgotten only to bring it up later.


 I hate the "bringing things up later" part. I think my answer could be something along the lines of "I thought that was forgotten." It wouldn't be nice, but I wouldn't take it as if they did something so horrible I woulnd't speak to them ever again. I could either argue or ignore it.


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## maxiogee

When I was a practising alcoholic I was an accomplished and inveterate liar. I lied even when there was no need. I was constantly trying to hide reality - from both myself and from other people.
When I sobered up I decided that I ought to forgo the lies. I tried really hard and am somewhat amazed by the level of honesty I achieved. BUT, I still have occasions where the 'discreet' lie is to be preferred to the bother which the truth would occasionally cause. (I'm thinking of the 'does my bum look big in this?' type of situation.

Lying is part of Irish culture, I believe. We almost expect it of our politicians and are not shocked or offended when they are found out. The lie of the 'professional foul' in sport is almost enshrined into law - the feigning of an injury to cajole a penalty from a referee, or the 'dive' designed to make a tackle appear to have been dangerous.
The social lies such as I mentioned above, or the 'we must meet up for a drink sometime' when one has no intention of ever contacting the long-lost-friend to whom it is addressed, and the "Of course I love you" are all platitudinous lies which are expected of people.

The more hurtful lies are different.


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## Poetic Device

maxiogee said:


> The more hurtful lies are different.


 
You just reminded me of the other questions...  What do you consider most hurtful?  How do you deal or cope?  What if the lie comes from the last person you'd expect it to?

Does any one or culture have a form of the infamous "an eye for an eye" law in effect?


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## TRG

Lying is about the worst moral failure that I see in people. I find it contemptible, and I especially detest it in myself. Fortunately, I can't really think of an instance where I have ever been lied to other than of the "little white lie" variety. That lying has become institutionalized in our political life is particularly aggravating.


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## Pedro y La Torre

maxiogee said:


> Lying is part of Irish culture, I believe. We almost expect it of our politicians and are not shocked or offended when they are found out.
> 
> The social lies such as I mentioned above, or the 'we must meet up for a drink sometime' when one has no intention of ever contacting the long-lost-friend to whom it is addressed, and the "Of course I love you" are all platitudinous lies which are expected of people.



I agree with this. Lying is one of the things that I really dislike about myself yet I consistently find myself doing it. I don't mean big lies or anything but just like the ones you've outlined, saying you'll meet up with someone when you've little or no intention of doing it or worse using certain things which may have happened and then spicing them up to make yourself look better, a definite bad character trait in myself but one I think which is unfortunately common to many people.


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## palomnik

This is a really interesting cultural aside, and I would be very interested in hearing from other cultures on it.

I agree with Maxiogee about the Irish.  My background is Irish, and I believe it is a cultural practice, if not a preoccupation, and I think it is tied up with the sense of guilt that is a common Irish theme.  This has to be understood in perspective, though.  In a certain sense, many cultures "lie"; what passes for a euphemism in one culture to avoid an unpleasantness can be seen as a bold-faced lie in another.

My wife is Russian.  She cannot abide lies, and after getting to know other Russians I believe that this is the common Russian opinion on the subject.  Ironically, I also think it is one reason that Russians sometimes come off as crude, since unlike many western Europeans they are unlikely to lie in order to avoid an unpleasant truth.


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## invictaspirit

I'm not at all sure that there is a definable, cultural British take on lying in the way that some of you have said there is or is not in various cultures.

A great many of us do it, from the bottom to the top of society.  It is seen by some as an acceptable sort of game, where the winner takes all and the loser is gullible, and by others as a dishonest and contemptible character-fault.

I think being 'economical with the truth' is seen as fair game in politics, business, commerce and trade at all levels in the UK.  I think a lot of us are quite 'macho' about this sort of lying.  However, the odd steadfastly honest politician or businessman/corp is still respected and admired.

It remains a cultural no-no to lie in major ways that cause hurt in your social and emotional circle.  But plenty do that too.


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## GenJen54

Poetic Device said:


> Scenario one:  If you ask if something is wrong when it is obvious and they say no. I don't know that I see this as a lie per se.  Technically, the person is not telling the truth.  But the intent is not to be harmful so much as to avoid discussion at a particular point in time.  It's a brush off more than anything, and has earlier been stated, is used almost everyday.
> 
> Scenario two:  said person does something wrong, be it stealing or whatever, and then lies about it.  This is absolutely wrong.  Not only is the person doing something wrong, he/she is intentionally hiding the truth.
> 
> Scenario three:  You do/did something that hurt or offended said person and they lie about it being forgotten only to bring it up later.  Again, this is one of those messy psychological tactics people use against one another.  I don't see this as a lie so much as a breach of promise.



To me, the *intent* of a lie is where its severity lies.  If I lie to intentionally cause harm to another, or select to omit certain information in order to hide an action, then that is expressly harmful.  There are many gray areas here, and few absolutes.

I happen to be in what some consider to be the business of "lying," the dreaded "Public Relations."  In other words, I deal in "spin."  While the credo of my business and fellow practitioners (those who follow our field's ethical standards) is to be "transparent," there are times when we need to position or "spin" our stories to shed ourselves in a positive light.  We are not exactly lying, but creating a different truth.


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## danielfranco

Disclaimer: What I believe, I can't blame my cultural background, or lack of it, for it. Well, mostly not really...

A lie is a lie. If it is not the truth, it is a lie.

Simple.

Direct.

Any other considerations I believe are mere rationalizations.

And I always lie.


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## winklepicker

Maxiogee's disarmingly candid post reminds me that the most destructive kind of lie - IMHO - is lying to oneself. 

Telling lies to the young is wrong.
Proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
Telling them that God's in his heaven
and all's well with the world is wrong.

Yevtushenko - full poem here.


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## .   1

Any lie told in an attempt to shirk responsibility is reprehensible and is deeply frowned upon by my society.
Many offences carry reasonably light sentences in Australia but the offence of Perjury is harshly dealt with.  Generally a holiday at Her Magisty's expense in the vicinity of 8 to 10 years is bandied about as the crims go pasty faced.

My father repeatedly drumed into me that I was better off to stand up and cop it sweet rather than trwing to weasel my way out of whatever problem I had.  It has stood me in pretty good stead.

I have no time for liars and drop them from my social circle between heartbeats.

.,,


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## ghoti

danielfranco said:


> Disclaimer: What I believe, I can't blame my cultural background, or lack of it, for it. Well, mostly not really...
> 
> A lie is a lie. If it is not the truth, it is a lie.
> 
> Simple.
> 
> Direct.
> 
> Any other considerations I believe are mere rationalizations.
> 
> And I always lie.


 
Except for your last statement (obviously impossible to verify, and probably a lie anyway  ), I have to disagree. I hate lying (and "practical jokes," which I consider a kind of situational or acted-out lying). But sometimes what we might call lying is actually tact. Witness Maxiogee's "Does my bum look big in this?" (Although, if you've seen the movie _Beauty Shop_, Queen Latifah asks, "Does this make my butt look big?" The response: "Yes." And she grins and says, "Good!")

Some people with disabilities such as Asperger's syndrome tell us exactly what they think, and we're taken aback when they do. And then we're told it's because they don't have "social skills." So part of getting along, smoothing the rocky road of life, appears to be gentle subterfuge, caution, tact, whatever. 

Lying.

There's a big difference between "I never had sex with that woman" and "No, you look fine in those pants."


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## danielfranco

A rose, by any other name...

Just kidding. But seriously, folks, to tell you the truth...
I just remembered last year we had a thread about telling the truth. Maybe both threads are part of the same conversation.


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## francophone

In my everyday life I half believe what I hear, meanign that I don't regard it as lies, but definitely not the truth either. Or at least it's the truth decorated/exaggerated with some extra spices.

But I've known very few people on my life who spoke without lies, those who don't put sugar on their words, or wrap it with beautifull paper.

For ex.: A team mate(tae team) said soemthign behind my back, and he wasn't trying to make me look or bad, he was just criticizing my performance and what I heard afterwards, was 100 versions for what he said, all covered with poison/sugar. Sometimes only exaggerated and sometimes completely biased.

I never try to get the exact truth, I just don't regard people as good or bad, I think of them as just people, when I asked that person he gave me the 101st version. Trying to make it sound less critical.

He wasn't trying to make himself look good, but he was trying not to point at my errors in my face, as if he was avoiding a misunderstanding or soemthing.

The reason is that people don't like confrontations, they don't like to hear criticism, and they don't like to give it either.


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## Veggy

Hello everybody, I am wondering how can you be so sure defining a lie. Since the truth is what each one of us considers as truth and the reality is what each one of us sees with his/her eyes and mind, I think sometimes what we call a lie is not one. Also the motivation is very important but we can never know exactly what are other peoples motivations.(sometimes we are not conscious about ourselves) Also, I think that we should have very clear ideas before we speak which is not always the case.


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## maxiogee

winklepicker said:


> Maxiogee's disarmingly candid post reminds me that the most destructive kind of lie - IMHO - is lying to oneself.
> 
> Telling lies to the young is wrong.
> Proving to them that lies are true is wrong.
> Telling them that God's in his heaven
> and all's well with the world is wrong.
> 
> Yevtushenko - full poem here.


 
Yes, well, but, eh..... I have four words for you

Santa Claus
Tooth Fairy


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## Mate

Poetic Device said:


> Scenario one: If you ask if something is wrong when it is obvious and they say no.
> 
> 
> 
> I get pissed.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scenario two: said person does something wrong, be it stealing or whatever, and then lies about it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Perhaps that person has a problem. Given the case he/she wants to share the problem with me, I usually listen. If after that the person lies to me again and/or repeatedly, I get outraged.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scenario three: You do/did something that hurt or offended said person and they lie about it being forgotten only to bring it up later.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I get pissed.
Click to expand...

 
I´m obviously speaking for myself. My culture is not uniform, it is not an homogeneous one; it's a conglomerate of many different cultures. I can only speak for myself.


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## badgrammar

This is a very interesting subject, and one that has very recently caused a major upset in my professional life.  So, as with most things, I've been reading about lying on the internet .  

Well, it turns out that lying is, for better and for worse, a part of human nature.  As Gen pointed out, there are many shades and tones and nuances in lying.  From the answer to "How do I look"? to out and out swindling.

I just quit a "great" job, because the man I worked for not only went back on a verbal financial agreement we made, but made it worse by denying the existence of conversations we had, and even by twisting things around to tell me that he never even proposed the arrangement to me (he forced it down my throat and hounded me to accept it, as he thought it would be favorable to him).  This, my friends, is what I call a bald faced lie, because when tides turned and he realized it would work in my favor, he reniged).  

Then, to make matters worse, a couple days ago he canceled one of the jobs he hired me for, putting another person in my place, and then had the gall to tell me he never, ever reserved me for that date.   

One lie I could deal, for the sake of keeping the job.  Two lies of such amplitude is too far beyond my limit.  These were not white lies, they were  out and out destructive and shameless lies.  So I quit, although he begged me not to.  

Some lies are acceptable in all cultures I think, as it is part of human nature, which knows no cultural bounds.  In negotiations, lies are generally expected on behalf of both parties. 

But the intent of the lie, as Gen mentioned, is where a lie goes from somewhat acceptable to completely immoral.


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## Poetic Device

winklepicker said:


> Maxiogee's disarmingly candid post reminds me that the most destructive kind of lie - IMHO - is lying to oneself.


 

*YES!!!*

"We deal in deception here. What we do not deal in is self-deception."
--Captain Queenan (Martin Sheen)* The Departed*


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## Hakro

Finns are simple and honest people. No kind of a lie is accepted. Even a gentle, benevolent lie ("you really look good today!") is considered questionable. If we can't say the truth, we don't say anything.

This doesn't concern politicians, of course.


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## Mate

Hakro said:


> This doesn't concern politicians, of course.


Nowhere.


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## Poetic Device

Mateamargo said:


> Nowhere.


????

I think it's a culture barrier or something, but I don't get where that comes in?


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## Mate

Poetic Device said:


> ????
> 
> I think it's a culture barrier or something, but I don't get where that comes in?


I was backing Hakro's subtle irony. It's a way of saying that politicians are very alike everywhere. They lie in Argentina as well as in Finland. If politicians do not lie in your country, well then I apologize to you and to all US citizens as well.


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## ghoti

Mateamargo said:


> If politicians do not lie in your country, well then I apologize to you and to all US citizens as well.


 
No, Mate, politicians here *never* lie. 

Oops, I think that belongs in the sarcasm thread.


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## Etcetera

A cunning question. 
I understand people lying to reporters, for example. Or to complete strangers. But lying to friends is another thing. 
A friend is someone whom we trust - and we expect that our friend will trust us. A lying person just can't be trustworthy. 
I can remember only one case when a girl I used to trust has actually lied to me. The matter was quite serious for me, and her lies were really unbearable. Well, I just stopped all my relations with her.


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## Poetic Device

Mateamargo said:


> If politicians do not lie in your country, well then I apologize to you and to all US citizens as well.


 
Oh, my Lord!!!  Didn't you ever hear of Nixon?  Clinton?  lol  (I don't mention Bush because he's just stupid IMO.)

No, you are right.  They seem to lie everywhere you turn, I wonder if there is even a difference in degrees...

Does flat out not telling someone something really important constitute as a lie?


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## ghoti

Poetic Device said:


> Does flat out not telling someone something really important constitute as a lie?


 
No, that's not a lie. But it probably counts as deceit.

That's why good old-fashioned sin is such a good word. There are sins of commission and sins of omission. Today people are so validated and full of self-esteem that no one sins anymore.


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## maxiogee

Poetic Device said:


> Does flat out not telling someone something really important constitute as a lie?


Have they asked to be kept informed?
Have they asked a direct question which the other person has refused to answer?
Has one person led the other to believe the X is the case when it isn't? (Bigamy is a lie even if the bigamist has never actually said "I am not already married.")

In cases like those then yes, it is a lie not to tell.

But - it's not a lie to not tell someone something they probably need to know but don't ask about.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

ghoti said:


> Today people are so validated and full of self-esteem that no one sins anymore.  Oh no, ghoti! *If* people in the past did sin, then so do we today. We just, try to think we don't. *Or*, people in the past didn't sin either, they just felt guilty because the system forced them to think they did (whatever that means)...


So, what's the question again?  Oh right, lies...

- *How much is an insult is lying in your culture?* An insult? Are you kidding me?  Look, when a culture accepts lies as an active part of it, how could it censure them? Here in Venezuela, almost everybody lies on a daily basis, from telling your boss you're late this morning because you were at the dentist (unless you're _dating_ a dentist  ), to cheating on your spouse with no remorse at all... Swindling is as common here as in any other 'industrialized' country. Let's leave politicians aside, as that field seems to be universal.

- *To you personally?* Now that's different. Lies have virtually destroyed my life -and forced me to start over- twice already, so I just _can't_ take them in _any_ field at all. Direct enough?

- *What steps do you as a person or in your culture do you take towards whoever lied to you? *
My culture: none. Well, maybe just smile in approval ("oh my gosh, that was brilliant! s/he didn't get caught" kind of thing). 
Me: if we're talking about harmful lies, that person can kiss our relationship goodbye, whatever it is (professional relat., friendship, or any other). If it's a _not-really-harmful_ to _even-a-little-innocent_ lie, it pretty much depends.

- *What do you consider most hurtful?* Too broad a question, not to say too personal.

-* How do you deal or cope?* I don't. Lie to me, and game's over.

- *What if the lie comes from the last person you'd expect it to?* My reaction would be what s/he would expect, _if s/he knows me a little_: I'd kick the person out of my life. Period.

- *Does any one or culture have a form of the infamous "an eye for an eye" law in effect?* 
My culture: not in the legal context. Although, some reactions are almost as standardized and powerful as laws (i.e. regarding the faithless spouse issue).
Me: Nope. If I had a 'personal law' on the matter, it would perhaps be something like "a kick in the butt for a lie".

- *Does flat out not telling someone something really important constitute as a lie?* It depends! In general lines, I'd say no. But it's still offensive to me.


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## Etcetera

Hakro said:


> Finns are simple and honest people. No kind of a lie is accepted. Even a gentle, benevolent lie ("you really look good today!") is considered questionable.


It's interesting. In Russia, compliments like that are usually accepted pretty gratefully (especially when the one to whom it is addressed has just recovered after an illness), and the person who says them is thought to be a very kind, friendly person. I guess in such cases compliments are considered to be very supportive.


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## Poetic Device

Same here.  I always figured that if you told a person that they looked bad then there would be a greater chance of their spirits being lowered.


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## luis masci

Well…comes to my mind right now, a particular lie that was supported by almost whole of my country.
It was when Diego Maradona did a goal with the hand against England in the Football World Cup of Mexico 86. It was called “La mano de Dios”(the God’s hand). That was very known and commented for years. Do you remember it?
I’m sure every Argentinean and also many Britons remember it.


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## Mate

luis masci said:


> I’m sure every Argentinean and also many Britons remember it.


I remember that one not as a lie but as a "viveza criolla" or "picardía criolla". Of course the English will always remember it as a shameful, dirty trick. Just another one...

Mate


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## .   1

I don't think that the cheating goal was a lie.
Maradona did what the sport allowed him to do.  There was no legal requirement for Maradona to tell the referee (morals have nothing to do with professional sport).
I have not heard Maradona claim that he did not handball the goal.  I have never heard him claim that the goal was morally correct just that he scored it.
Where is the lie?

.,,


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## slare

Mateamargo said:


> Of course Brits *English people* (I'm sure most Scots and Welsh enjoyed it ) always remember it as a shameful lie or as a shameful, dirty trick. Just another one...


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## maxiogee

. said:


> I don't think that the cheating goal was a lie.
> Maradona did what the sport allowed him to do.  There was no legal requirement for Maradona to tell the referee (morals have nothing to do with professional sport).
> I have not heard Maradona claim that he did not handball the goal.  I have never heard him claim that the goal was morally correct just that he scored it.
> Where is the lie?
> 
> .,,



Maybe not a legal requirement' to report it, but he definitely fell into the requirement regarding "unsporting behaviour". My man in the Refereeing section of the FAI tells me he 'could' have reported it. It has happened that players were honest enough and admitted the foul.


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## Mate

Slare said, and I quote:



> Of course Brits *English people* (I'm sure most Scots and Welsh enjoyed it ) always remember it as a shameful lie or as a shameful, dirty trick. Just another one...


 
Ok, you're right. It is edited already. 
Thanks.

But there's something more to it: also Northern most Irish citizens enjoyed it as well as most (all?) of the Third World did. It's kind of a David and Goliath thing, or it could just had something to do with the Malvinas War.

And I agree with .,, in this: Maradona did not lie. As Maxiogee stated a few posts ago: _"...it's not a lie to not tell someone something they probably need to know but don't ask about."_
Diego just fouled cheated and the referee did not ask. If the referee would have asked, he would have had a lie for an answer. So asking would be ridiculously useless in that case.

Mate


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## slare

I don't think Maradona lied, he just cheated. Maybe some people would say that cheating is lying to yourself, although I personally wouldn't say that.

Of course that match should have been remembered for the other goal he scored, one of the best World Cup goals of all time, instead of the most infamous one.

By the way, most Northern Irish people probably wouldn't have wanted Argentina to win, and a bit presumptious to assume that most of the rest of the world did (or even cared), but let's get back to the subject of lies...


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## curly

What do you all think about constructive lies?
In other words, lies that not only have a good intention behind them but also work. Is it manipulation? Is it Taking choices away from a person?


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## Mate

slare said:


> I don't think Maradona lied, he just cheated. Maybe some people would say that cheating is lying to yourself, although I personally wouldn't say that.
> 
> Of course that match should have been remembered for the other goal he scored, one of the best World Cup goals of all time, instead of the most infamous one.
> 
> By the way, most Northern Irish people probably wouldn't have wanted Argentina to win, and a bit presumptious to assume that most of the rest of the world did (or even cared), but let's get back to the subject of lies...


 
First of all Junior members should show a little more respect for Senior liars, ooops, Senior members.

Aaaand...Maradona is one of the most loved Argentine liars .

Ps: following some of your opinions my post #40 is again edited. Thank you.

Saludos - Mate


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## Mate

curly said:


> What do you all think about constructive lies?
> In other words, lies that not only have a good intention behind them but also work. Is it manipulation? Is it Taking choices away from a person?


Can you please give an example?


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## curly

Hello 

When a parent doesn't really have the time to explain why a child shouldn't do something. or When a friend tries to boost someone's confidence.


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## Mate

curly said:


> Hello
> 
> 
> 
> 
> When a parent doesn't really have the time to explain why a child shouldn't do something.
> 
> 
> 
> And the lie is "bacause I say so"? I cannot see the lie in that example .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> or When a friend tries to boost someone's confidence.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now I'm totally lost .
Click to expand...

 
Mate


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## Poetic Device

I just saw this.  I'm sorry.  I don't know if I answered you or not...   



maxiogee said:


> Have they asked to be kept informed?
> Have they asked a direct question which the other person has refused to answer?
> Has one person led the other to believe the X is the case when it isn't? (Bigamy is a lie even if the bigamist has never actually said "I am not already married.")
> 
> In cases like those then yes, it is a lie not to tell.
> 
> But - it's not a lie to not tell someone something they probably need to know but don't ask about.


 
Yes. 
Do you mean at that specific time or any time at all?
Yes.

But if someone needs to know something why wouldn't you tell them?


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## curly

Sorry, They were pretty bad excuses for examples.

Say someone tells a friend who is nervous about what the first person is doing, saying piercing the friend's ear or driving them somewhere, is it morally acceptable to say don't worry i've done this many times. Or perhaps upon picking up a friend's dress and noting that's it's repulsive makes it unavailible somehow and tells the friend that something happened to it, it was stolen or picked up by someone else by accident.

In the case of the child I don't mean just saying "because I said so" but actually giving a brief simple and completely untrue reason to do or not to do something. Perhaps, don't sit so close to the televison or you're eyes will rot, or the classic story of what happens to boys who *ahem* play with themselves. Or to return to one of my favourite example , The child and the cooker . What would you think if the parent told the child not to touch the cooker because there's a gremlin in it that could leap out and take it away? Or something less dramatic.


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## Pedro y La Torre

luis masci said:


> It was when Diego Maradona did a goal with the hand against England in the Football World Cup of Mexico 86. It was called “La mano de Dios”(the God’s hand). That was very known and commented for years. Do you remember it?



When did Maradona ever lie about it?


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## Mate

curly said:


> Say someone tells a friend who is nervous about what the first person is doing, saying piercing the friend's ear or driving them somewhere, is it morally acceptable to say don't worry i've done this many times. Or perhaps upon picking up a friend's dress and noting that's it's repulsive makes it unavailible somehow and tells the friend that something happened to it, it was stolen or picked up by someone else by accident.
> 
> 
> 
> White lies ("mentiras blancas", literally). No, I don't think those are deceitful lies, those are acceptable in my view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In the case of the child... Perhaps, don't sit so close to the televison or you're eyes will rot, or the classic story of what happens to boys who *ahem* play with themselves. Or to return to one of my favourite example , The child and the cooker . What would you think if the parent told the child not to touch the cooker because there's a gremlin in it that could leap out and take it away? Or something less dramatic.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I would be very careful about the drama thing. It could result in something quite traumatic for the kid. Of course you are trying to be protective, but the potential psychological harm can be worse than the danger you are trying to protect the kid from.
Click to expand...

 
Regards - Mate


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## Mate

Pedro y La Torre said:


> When did Maradona ever lie about it?


He did not lie. Both Peter and The Tower are right! 

Mate


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## Anne

I have read that if you're in Mexico, you'll be told what you want to hear whether it's true or not.  Can't remember the book, but the gist of the article was if you ask someone if a particular street is safe and the person looks uncomfortable while telling you yes, find another route.  Or someone will make plans with you when they have no intentions of keeping them.  
Is this true?


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Anne said:


> Is this true?


It's a generalization, however possibly true.  I can't speak for Mexico, but here in Venezuela, you can find a lot of people like that.

Not that we don't like confrontation down here, but that people would rather be "polite" and tell you "sure, we outta have a drink sometime" (as in many other countries), just that some people would take it a step further and add "next friday" instead of "sometime"... 

But as I said, it's a generalization.


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## maxiogee

Poetic Device said:


> But if someone needs to know something why wouldn't you tell them?



I think that interpreting that statement depends on (a) who is deciding the 'need' and (b) which side you are on.

Someone with an intense desire to know something may very often not actually need to know it.


Fred and Mary see a lot of each other and she has turned down two of his proposals of marriage. She has given birth to a young boy and both Fred and Mary believe Fred to be the child's father. Mary still refuses to marry him.


Some years pass and Fred meets Ethel in a town over 1,000 miles away. They like each other and start going out.
One evening the subject of past relationships crops up and Ethel asks Fred was he ever married. He responds "There was one young woman I saw a lot and even proposed to twice - but no, I've never been married."

Is he lying there?
Does Ethel need to know about the son?



Poetic Device said:


> But if someone needs to know something why wouldn't you tell them?


You are visiting your elderly granny is recovering from a severe heart attack.
Your cousin Joe, the apple of Granny's eye, is in hospital following a traumatic car accident and is not expected to live, although the doctors are doing all they can.
Granny asks "How's Joe? He promised to be here tonight for my birthday and he's not here. In fact I haven't seen him all week..... Where is he?
Can you tell Granny the truth? Is it necessary to do so?


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## Poetic Device

What about scenario three:

Stacey and Tessa have been friends for a few years.  Tessa introduces Stacey to a man, and as Stacey gets to know him he somes something that leaves a bad taste in Stacey's mouth.  Does she tell Tessa or leave it to chance?


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## Mate

Poetic Device said:


> What about scenario three:
> 
> Stacey and Tessa have been friends for a few years. Tessa introduces Stacey to a man, and as Stacey gets to know him he somes something that leaves a bad taste in Stacey's mouth. Does she tell Tessa or leave it to chance?


I guess that scenario three has more to do with not telling something to someone than with lies. But the question seems to be (probably because of my poor understanding of English) unclear.

I cannot get this part: _"...as Stacey gets to know him he somes something that leaves a bad taste..." _

Is _to some_ a verb or a typo? If it's a verb please explain it's meaning. 

Thanks - Mate


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## ghoti

Mateamargo said:


> I guess that scenario three has more to do with not telling something to someone than with lies. But the question seems to be (probably because of my poor understanding of English) unclear.
> 
> I cannot get this part: _"...as Stacey gets to know him he somes something that leaves a bad taste..." _
> 
> Is _to some_ a verb or a typo? If it's a verb please explain it's meaning.
> 
> Thanks - Mate


 
Hi. I'll bet it's a typo for "says something" or "does something."


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## luis masci

mmm... seems to me there are different interpretations about whether cheating is or not a lie. In my opinion it's indeed a kind of lie.


Mateamargo said:


> I remember that one not as a lie but as a "viveza criolla" or "picardía criolla". Mate





. said:


> I don't think that the cheating goal was a lie..,,





slare said:


> I don't think Maradona lied, he just cheated.





maxiogee said:


> Has one person led the other to believe the X is the case when it isn't? (Bigamy is a lie even if the bigamist has never actually said "I am not already married.")
> In cases like those then yes, it is a lie not to tell.


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## Poetic Device

Mateamargo said:


> I guess that scenario three has more to do with not telling something to someone than with lies. But the question seems to be (probably because of my poor understanding of English) unclear.
> 
> I cannot get this part: _"...as Stacey gets to know him he somes something that leaves a bad taste..." _
> 
> Is _to some_ a verb or a typo? If it's a verb please explain it's meaning.
> 
> Thanks - Mate


 
Oops, I meant does.  Sorry.


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## Sallyb36

Lying is always wrong.  I always told my children that no matter what they do, even if they kill someone, lying about it just makes it worse.  I think it is always better to tell the truth.  Even for those little white lies, does my bum look big in this? - you have a big bum, it'll look big in anything, or yes, wear something else!!  I don't see what's so hard about telling the truth.


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## Mate

Sallyb36 said:


> Lying is always wrong. I always told my children that no matter what they do, even if they kill someone, lying about it just makes it worse. I think it is always better to tell the truth. Even for those little white lies, does my bum look big in this? - you have a big bum, it'll look big in anything, or yes, wear something else!! I don't see what's so hard about telling the truth.


I think it was Joan Manuel Serrat who said _"Nunca es triste la verdad. Lo que no tiene es remedio." _"Truth is never sad, but there´s no way to fix it".


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## ghoti

Mateamargo said:


> I think it was Joan Manuel Serrat who said _"Nunca es triste la verdad. Lo que no tiene es remedio." _"Truth is never sad, but there is no way to mend it".


 
Or "there's no way to fix it." That heightens the irony. IMHO.


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## mirx

Anne said:


> I have read that if you're in Mexico, you'll be told what you want to hear whether it's true or not. Can't remember the book, but the gist of the article was if you ask someone if a particular street is safe and the person looks uncomfortable while telling you yes, find another route. Or someone will make plans with you when they have no intentions of keeping them.
> Is this true?


 

That's bullshit, mexican people are incapable of lying, god did not give us that gift. We are all truthful people, honest and sincere, lying is not only frowned upon but punished with decapitation. 

Never have I seen or known a husband being unfaithful to his wife, infidelity didn't come in our evolution, it's something we yet don't know of.

And our politicians, the poor things always fighting to preserve the wealth of the country, if people only gave them a chance.


These are the three typical mexican lies.

"I promise it won't hurt"
"C'mon, it will only be the tip"
"I'm virgin"


God keeps me away from liars, the most disgraceful thing on this earth. 

If you need a true friend get a mexican one, he will never cheat on you with your wife on a cloudy sunday morning when you're supposed to be away and the kids have been sent with the granma'. He won't speak behind your back right after you left the room.

Mexican= Honesty.

The truth has been told!!!

PS: If mexican friends are so good that they're all taken, then a Spanish one will do


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## depressd

I cannot understand why most of you has related lying with nationalities if it is just there in you, you cannot help yourself lying but in fact it is not very difficult not to tell big lies if you really want....


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## mirx

depressd said:


> I cannot understand why most of you has related lying with nationalities if it is just there in you, you cannot help yourself lying but in fact it is not very difficult not to tell big lies if you really want....


 

Because the starter wants to see lying from a cultural perspective and not from a personal one.

How tolertant is your culture to lies?


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## .   1

If there is a need to talk behind people's backs there will be a necessity to lie.

.,,
The culture that lacks liars lacks gossip.


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## Poetic Device

. said:


> If there is a need to talk behind people's backs there will be a necessity to lie.
> 
> .,,
> The culture that lacks liars lacks gossip.


 
So does your culture allow gossip to florish (sp)?  For that matter, how much does your culture constitute gossip as lying?


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## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> So does your culture allow gossip to florish (sp)? For that matter, how much does your culture constitute gossip as lying?


About 99.99999999999999999999% the same as yours.

.,,


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