# de Bruyne (pronunciation)



## HappyDave

Hi,

I was wondering if there is a difference between the way a Flemish person and a Dutch person would pronounce the name de Bruyne (as in Kevin de Bruyne - the Belgian footballer) ?

Any help would be great, dank u wel!


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## luitzen

I wouldn't suspect so.


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## bibibiben

Most Dutch speakers tend to pronounce _ui _as a true diphthong: [œy], [ʌ̈y], [ʌy] or [ɐy]. Word-finally: [œyj], [œj], [ʌ̈yj], [ʌ̈j], [ʌyj], [ʌj], [ɐyj] or [ɐj]. Monophthongization is generally frowned upon, but is particularly common in The Hague area ('Haags'): [œː]. There seems to be a tendency among Flemish speakers to favor monophthongization as well: [œː].


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## marrish

What a meticulously presented overview of so many possible pronunciations!


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## Peterdg

bibibiben said:


> There seems to be a tendency among Flemish speakers to favor monophthongization as well: [œː].


As far as I know, they were never diphthongs in Flemish. In Belgium, De Br*uy*ne is pronounced as [ʌ].  Only in East Flanders, it would be pronounced as [œː].


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## bibibiben

Peterdg said:


> As far as I know, they were never diphthongs in Flemish. In Belgium, De Br*uy*ne is pronounced as [ʌ].



Pronouncing _ui_ (or _uy_) as [ʌ] means that there's no lip rounding at all, making Dutch _buis_ sound like English _bus_. I wonder if any other Flemish speaker will confirm that that's the way _ui_ is pronounced in Belgium. I doubt it.

Collins & Mees state in their _Phonetics of English and Dutch_ (1996) that the glide in _ui_ is "an essential part of the articulation for the standard varieties (i.e. (NL) ABN and (B) AN)", while at the same time certain Dutch dialects (mainly 'Haags') and a great many Flemish dialects pronounce _ui_ as a steady-state vowel, which means that these dialects lengthen the first element in [œy], producing [œː] as a result.


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## Peterdg

@bibibiben: I'm not very skilled in IPA. I went to a website on which you can hear how the different symbols sound and this is the nearest I could find. Of course, that depends on the reliability of the web site and my ear.


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## marrish

HappyDave said:


> Hi,
> I was wondering if there is a difference between the way a Flemish person and a Dutch person would pronounce the name *d*e Bruyne (as in Kevin *d*e Bruyne - the Belgian footballer) ?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Peterdg said:
> 
> 
> 
> As far as I know, they were never diphthongs in Flemish. In Belgium, *D*e Bruyne is pronounced as [ʌ].  Only in East Flanders, it would be pronounced as [œː].
Click to expand...

Watch out for the correct spelling.


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## bibibiben

marrish said:


> What a meticulously presented overview of so many possible pronunciations!



Yes, a great many possible pronunciations, but I must admit that some pronunciations are less common or acceptable:

Time-honored, canonical pronunciation: [œy].
Common in large parts of the Netherlands, less so in Flanders: [ʌ̈y], [ʌy].
Not generally accepted: [ɐy].

Word-final _ui_:
Broad transcription: [œy].
Narrower transcription: [œyj].
Common in large parts of the Netherlands: [ʌ̈yj], [ʌyj].
To be avoided: [œj] (this is how many French speakers pronounce Dutch _ui_).
Not generally accepted: [ɐyj].
Least accepted: [ɐj].


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## YellowOnline

Please note the name is "De Bruyne", not "de Bruyne". Big difference, as in Belgium a small letter is reserved for nobility.

Considering pronunciation: like bibibiben says, the standard Dutch is [œy], the standard Flemish [œ:]. 

The problem is that [œ] doesn't exist in English, where most pronounce it as [ɔɪ]. The way I try to explain it to Germans - I live in Germany, where he used to play for Wolfsburg - is that it's the same as in the French 'portef*eui*lle'. Assuming you know basic French, of course.


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## Peterdg

If you want to hear how it sounds in Flanders: go to this site. Enter _Dutch_ as language, choose _Elen (Belgian)_ as voice, and enter _de bruyne_ in the text field. That's how I would pronounce it.


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## ThomasK

I think monopthongs are common in Dutch dialects: in Antwerp it sounds like an /a/ as in standard Dutch "man", but longer, and in West Flanders you can hear something like /hus/ as [ʌ], but not in all dialects, I think. Yet, it is not considered standard Dutch (of course), but perfect pronunciation of vowels is not what most Flemish people aim at... ;-)


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## eno2

Peterdg said:


> If you want to hear how it sounds in Flanders: go to this site. Enter _Dutch_ as language, choose _Elen (Belgian)_ as voice, and enter _de bruyne_ in the text field. That's how I would pronounce it.


There's some funny pronunciation out there between the (Dutch) as voices. 

De broewiene....

Can't believe it...


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## Peterdg

eno2 said:


> There's some funny pronunciation out there between the (Dutch) as voices.


Yes, the Laura (Netherlands) character is, at least strange, I don't know where they got that from. She pronounces everything strange, not only De Bruyne.


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## Red Arrow

The following pronunciations are common in Flanders.
puin = [pœyn] or [pœ:n]
bui = [bœy] or [bœ:]
buien = [bœ:jə]

I don't hear [bœyje] on the news or in Limburg. The [y] part clearly merges with [j] here.


Peterdg said:


> As far as I know, they were never diphthongs in Flemish.


What about Limburg?


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## Peterdg

Red Arrow :D said:


> What about Limburg?


Honestly, I wouldn't know.


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## Red Arrow

Peterdg said:


> Honestly, I wouldn't know.


Really? I suppose Limburgian is as exotic to you as East-Flemish is to me 

People in Limburg pronounce ui as [œy], ij as [ɛi] and ei as [ɛ:i]. In Limburgian _tussentaal_, the difference between ei and ij is often lost.

(EDIT: In some dialects, ui is still pronounced [y:], just like in West-Flanders.)


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## Hans Molenslag

Red Arrow :D said:


> bui = [bœy] or [bœ:]
> buien = [bœ:jə]


Niet alleen voor een sjwa maar ook aan het eind van woord spreek ik een /j/ uit, geen /y/ of /w/. Het eerste deel van de tweeklank is altijd kort bij mij.


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## Red Arrow

Hans Molenslag said:


> Niet alleen voor een sjwa maar ook aan het eind van woord spreek ik een /j/ uit, geen /y/ of /w/. Het eerste deel van de tweeklank is altijd kort bij mij.


Grappig. In het Leuvense dialect klinkt 'oor' als [œi] bv. door, voor, voorbeeld etc.

En bij 80-plussers klinkt 'eer' als [ɛi] bv. weeral /wɛjɑl/


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