# Я давно хочу/хотел сделать это



## zhizn9797

My try - я давно хочу сделать это.
Is this right?

_Mod note: please use appropriate capitalization._


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## Vadim K

Я давно хот*ЕЛ *сделать это


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## zhizn9797

why is it хот*ЕЛ? *


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## Drink

zhizn9797 said:


> why is it хот*ЕЛ? *



Because "have wanted" is in the past tense, but "хочу" is the present tense. The past tense is "хотел".


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## zhizn9797

how would you translate - I have been wanting to do this for a long time?


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## Drink

zhizn9797 said:


> how would you translate - I have been wanting to do this for a long time?



The same way; "have been wanting" is still in the past tense.


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## zhizn9797

how is this translated - I have been here for a long time


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## Drink

The thing is you _can_ also say "я давно хочу" and I don't think there is much of a difference in meaning.

EDIT: Actually, I think the past tense means that you have the possibility of getting what you want soon (or you have already got it), but the present tense implies that it won't happen in the near future.


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## Drink

zhizn9797 said:


> how is this translated - I have been here for a long time



Я давно здесь был.


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## zhizn9797

wouldn't that be rendered in english as - I had been here for a long time?

The main problem for me is this it is hard to translate english tenses into russian tenses, especially when it comes to the present continuous.

Could you bee so kind as to give me an overview of how to translate english tenses into russian tenses? This has been bugging me for a very long time! Thanks.


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## Enquiring Mind

Your sentence is correct, zhizn:
я давно хочу сделать это = I have wanted to do this for a long time, I have been wanting to do this for a long time.
Я давно хочу щенка = I have wanted a puppy for a long time, I have been wanting a puppy for a long time.
Я давно хочу тебе сказать = I have wanted to tell you for a long time, I have been wanting to tell you for a long time. (source: poembook.ru)
Я давно хочу познакомиться с хорошей женщиной = I've wanted (or "been wanting") to meet a good woman for a long time.
Я давно хочу отказаться от курения = I've wanted (or "been wanting") to give up smoking for a long time.
Я давно живу в Америке = I have lived (or "been living") in America for a long time.

More about translating tenses here (source: usefulenglish.ru)


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## zhizn9797

Enquiring Mind said:


> Your sentence is correct, zhizn:
> я давно хочу сделать это = I have wanted to do this for a long time, I have been wanting to do this for a long time.
> Я давно хочу щенка = I have wanted a puppy for a long time, I have been wanting a puppy for a long time.
> Я давно хочу тебе сказать = I have wanted to tell you for a long time, I have been wanting to tell you for a long time. (source: poembook.ru)
> Я давно хочу познакомиться с хорошей женщиной = I've wanted (or "been wanting") to meet a good woman for a long time.
> Я давно хочу отказаться от курения = I've wanted (or "been wanting") to give up smoking for a long time.
> Я давно живу в Америке = I have lived (or "been living") in America for a long time.
> 
> More about translating tenses here (source: usefulenglish.ru)


thank you so much


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## Enquiring Mind

zhizn9797 said:


> how is this translated - I have been here for a long time


Я уже давно здесь, я здесь уже давно.


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## zhizn9797

so does this mean that vadim was wrong?


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## Rosett

zhizn9797 said:


> so does this mean that vadim was wrong?


No, forero VadimK is correct, as well. Modern Russian doesn't have Present Perfect, but it can be rendered by Прошедшее Время.
"Я давно хотел сделать это" (и сейчас хочу).
"Тучи над городом встали" (и сейчас стоят).


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## zhizn9797

so does that me that we are both correct?


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## Rosett

zhizn9797 said:


> so does that mean that we are both correct?


It depends on what you want to say.
"Хотел" comes to the pivoting point and may terminate here (future action is open), хочу carries continuation in the same quality. Forero Drink comes close to explain this issue - there's a difference.


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## zhizn9797

could you elaborate further on that?


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## Vadim K

zhizn9797 said:


> wouldn't that be rendered in english as - I had been here for a long time?
> 
> The main problem for me is this it is hard to translate english tenses into russian tenses, especially when it comes to the present continuous.
> 
> Could you bee so kind as to give me an overview of how to translate english tenses into russian tenses? This has been bugging me for a very long time! Thanks.



Don´t worry. It is the same feelings with English tenses for Russian people. All English tenses had been bugging me for a very long time too until I started studying Spanish where there are much more tenses than in Enlgish. 

The problem in translation of English present perfect into Russian tenses resulted from the fact that English *present* perfect tense is just named as "*present*". Logically it is neither present nor past tense. Or otherwise it is both a present and a past tense. As prove of this dualism I can refer to Spanish language. This language has absolutely the same tense as English present perfect. But it is named as "*preterito *perfecto" in Spanish . And "*preterito*" means *past* in Enlgish. As you can see the same logical tense treats differently from "present-past" point of view in two languages.

Based on the logic above you can translate the sentence "I have wanted to do this for a long time" into Russian in both way

1. Я давно хотел сделать это. (Russain past tense)
2. Я давно хочу сделать это. (Russian present tense)

I advised and I do advise you to choose the fist version because for my point of view in general case it would be more appropriate to use Russian past tense for translation of English present perfect and/or English present perfect continious. It is because there are situations where you can not use Russian present tense while you are translating English present perfect.  For example the sentence "I have eaten" should only be translated as "Я ел" or "Я поел." (Russian past tense) You should only use Russian past tense here. You can not translate it as "Я ем" (Russian present tense).


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## Kirill V.

Zhizn is right, and Enquiring Mind is right

First of all, _I have been here _is not a past tense, it's a present tense.
Secondly, there is no way to translate English tenses into Russian on the basis of what those tenses are called in each of the two languages. The systems of tenses in these languages are very different, and so is the usage of the tenses, so what one must translate is the meaning.

I have wanted to do this for a long time = Я давно хочу сделать это
I have been studying English for a long time = Я давно учу английский
I have been here for a long time = Я здесь уже давно

Spanish tenses are different, and French tenses are different, whatever the source language is one translates the meaning, not the tenses.


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## Drink

kayve said:


> First of all, _I have been here _is not a past tense, it's a present tense.



This is a matter of terminology and not worth arguing about. This tense is sometimes called the "present perfect", but it is used to describe actions that took place in the past.


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## Kirill V.

Drink said:


> This is a matter of terminology and not worth arguing about.


I agree 100%, see my second point


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## Enquiring Mind

> For example the sentence "I have eaten" should only be translated as "Я ел" or "Я поел." (Russian past tense) You should only use Russian past tense here. You can not translate it as "Я ем" (Russian present tense).



This is true, of course, but in this example you have left out the "magic" word давно, which is the marker for the present perfect or present perfect continuous in English. If you use the past tense (with давно) in Russian, the sense is usually that the action no longer continues. If the action still continues (which is usually the case when the English present perfect or present perfect continuous is used), the present tense (with давно) is standard in Russian.

Я давно ем все не соленое, сама для себя так решила.
I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) my food without salt for a long time, it's my own decision.  (And I still don't take salt with my food)

Арбуз я давно ем - I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) melon for a long time. (And I still eat it)

(Source: dietaonline.ru) Я давно ем чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить!
I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) with a teaspoon for ages, and got used to it, and I try not to have seconds!
(And I still eat with a teaspoon)

Would you say я давно ел in these three examples, given that the eating action still continues in each case? I don't think so.


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> This is true, of course, but in this example you have left out the "magic" word давно, which is the marker for the present perfect or present perfect continuous in English. If you use the past tense (with давно) in Russian, the sense is usually that the action no longer continues. If the action still continues (which is usually the case when the English present perfect or present perfect continuous is used), the present tense (with давно) is standard in Russian.
> 
> Я давно ем все не соленое, сама для себя так решила.
> I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) my food without salt for a long time, it's my own decision.  (And I still don't take salt with my food)
> 
> Арбуз я давно ем - I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) melon for a long time. (And I still eat it)
> 
> (Source: dietaonline.ru) Я давно ем чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить!
> I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) with a teaspoon for ages, and got used to it, and I try not to have seconds!
> (And I still eat with a teaspoon)
> 
> Would you say я давно ел in these three examples, given that the eating action still continues in each case? I don't think so.



I would disagree with you about standard using of present tense in Russian with the word _*давно*_.

I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) my food without salt for a long time, it's my own decision. (And I still don't take salt with my food)

Я давно ем все не соленое, сама для себя так решила. - *CORRECT.*
Я давно не* ела* ничего соленого, сама для себя так решила. - *CORRECT.*

I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) melon for a long time. (And I still eat it)

Я давно ем арбуз - *CORRECT.*
Я давно *начал *есть арбуз - *СORRECT. 
*
I've _eaten_ (or _been eating_) with a teaspoon for ages, and got used to it, and I try not to have seconds!

Я давно ем чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить! - *CORRECT.*
Я давно *привыкла *есть чайной ложкой! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить - *CORRECT*.


By the way the word _*давно*_ is not the only one possibility for translation of English phrase "for a long time" in your examples pointed above. It also can be translated into Russian as "_*с давних пор*_" here.

Я с давних пор *ела *все не соленое, сама для себя так решила. - *CORRECT.*
Я с давних пор *ел *арбуз. - *CORRECT.*
Я с давних пор *ел* чайной ложкой! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить *- CORRECT.*


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## Kirill V.

I would suggest that we get back to the original question.

_I have wanted to do this for a long time_ = _Я давно хочу сделать это _(present tense in Russian, no way to use past tense here)

Other sentences in other contexts may require different tenses when translated into Russian


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## Enquiring Mind

But you've *changed *two of my examples, Vadim .  My melon example is not a negative sentence, and the teaspoon example can't (as it stands) use the past tense in Russian.

Арбуз я давно ем (or, if you like, Я давно ем арбуз) - I have _eaten _(or _been eating_) melon for a long time. Would you say Я давно ел арбуз to mean I have been (and still am) eating melon? 

Я давно ем чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить.  Would you say Я давно е*л* чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить?

[The issue is not whether the Russian sentences are grammatically correct, it's whether they correctly convey the sense of the English past perfect, in which the action still continues.]


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## Enquiring Mind

Ok, but to get back to the original example: Я давно хот*ЕЛ *сделать это = I _wanted_ (or _had wanted_) to do that for ages (but I no longer want to, that wish has [probably] been fulfilled, or disappeared - whatever it was I wanted to do, I've now done it when I make this statement.)


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> But you've *changed *two of my examples, Vadim .  My melon example is not a negative sentence, and the teaspoon example can't (as it stands) use the past tense in Russian.
> 
> Арбуз я давно ем (or, if you like, Я давно ем арбуз) - I have _eaten _(or _been eating_) melon for a long time. Would you say Я давно ел арбуз to mean I have been (and still am) eating melon?
> 
> Я давно ем чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить.  Would you say Я давно е*л* чайной ложкой, привыкла! А за добавкой стараюсь не ходить?



I think that I probably could not give you clearly the main idea of my previous message. I will try again if you do not mind.

It is not true that it is standard in Russian using present tense with the word _*давно. *_And I give you some examples where the word *давно *is used with Russian past tense. In this case I just used the same sentences with the same meaning but with other tense.


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## Enquiring Mind

That's my point: when _*давно *_is used with the past tense in Russian, it's usually not the same meaning as when it's used with the present tense. In most contexts, the action no longer continues, and therefore _*давно *_plus past tense probably doesn't translate the English present perfect, in which the action still continues. It's a pity we are unable to see a context for the OP's question.


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## Rosett

zhizn9797 said:


> could you elaborate further on that?


You may want to bring more context that you prefer to discuss.


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> Ok, but to get back to the original example: Я давно хот*ЕЛ *сделать это = I _wanted_ (or _had wanted_) to do that for ages (but I no longer want to, that wish has [probably] been fulfilled, or disappeared - whatever it was I wanted to do, I've now done it when I make this statement.)



*Дорогая, мне так хочется поцеловать тебя сейчас. Более того - я давно хотел это сделать.*

What do you think about that phrase? If the person who says that no longer wants to kiss?


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## Enquiring Mind

I agree that the past tense is fine in _that particular sentence and context_, and _does_ convey the sense of the past perfect in English.  But it's not always the case.


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> I agree that the past tense is fine in _that particular sentence and context_, and _does_ convey the sense of the past perfect in English.  But it's not always the case.



And I would say in opposite direction. The present tense can be fine in some particular sentecne and context if you translate present perfect or present perfect continious into Russian. But the past tense is always fine.


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## Rosett

Enquiring Mind said:


> Арбуз я давно ем (or, if you like, Я давно ем арбуз) - I have _eaten _(or _been eating_) melon for a long time. Would you say Я давно ел арбуз to mean I have been (and still am) eating melon?


Yes, it is possible to say this in both ways  (ем/ел) if the melon is still in your fridge. 
Otherwise, you may want to say: "Я давно не ем/ел арбуз".


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## Kirill V.

Vadim K said:


> And I would say in opposite direction. The present tense can be fine in some particular sentecne and context if you translate present perfect or present perfect continious into Russian. But the past tense is always fine.



This is simply not true.

I have been studying English for a long time. = Я давно учу английский. There is absolutely no way to use the past tense here without changing the meaning.


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## Drink

kayve said:


> This is simply not true.
> 
> I have been studying English for a long time. = Я давно учу английский. There is absolutely no way to use the past tense here without changing the meaning.



Yes you can. "Я давно учил английский." could easily mean exactly the same thing (but depends on context).


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## Kirill V.

Drink said:


> Yes you can. "Я давно учил английский." could easily mean exactly the same thing (but depends on context).


That would be very context-dependent.

Vadim's point is that present perfect and perfect continuous can always be translated into Russian with the past tense.

1. The above Vadim's statement is not true.
2. See my post #20 (or extract from it below)
*There is no way to translate English tenses into Russian on the basis of what those tenses are called in each of the two languages. The systems of tenses in these languages are very different, and so is the usage of the tenses, so what one must translate is the meaning. *

Don't you agree with these points, Drink?


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## Vadim K

Drink said:


> Yes you can. "Я давно учил английский." could easily mean exactly the same thing (but depends on context).



What about "Я изучал английский с давних пор?"


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## Vadim K

kayve said:


> Vadim's point is that present perfect and perfect continuous can always be translated into Russian with the past tense.



No, I do not mean that.

My point of view is that there is always a possiblity to translate present perfect and present continious with Russian past tense. And there are cases when present perfect and present continious can not be translated using Russian present tense.

For example - Thank you for your invitation, but I have already watched this film. (present perfect)

There is no possiblity to translate this sentence into Russian with Russian present tense.


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## Kirill V.

I have been studying = Я изучаю английский с давних пор
The reason for us to be here is to help foreign learners to study Russian. Not to conceive some peculiar examples in peculiar contexts to prove something to ouselves


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## Rosett

I think we should go back to the OP statement and wait for some context from TS.


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## Vadim K

Rosett said:


> I think we should go back to the OP statement and wait for some context from TS.



The issue is that OP statement has been slightly changed by TS with his next request



zhizn9797 said:


> The main problem for me is this it is hard to translate english tenses into russian tenses, especially when it comes to the present continuous.
> 
> Could you bee so kind as to give me an overview of how to translate english tenses into russian tenses? This has been bugging me for a very long time! Thanks.


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## Sobakus

After reading this thread, I agree with the opinion that the *positive* English Present Perfect is pretty much always translated into Russian as *positive *Present Imperfective, which is not the case with *negation*. But, before elaborating on that, there's a confusion in this thread about aspects. The Russian Perfective aspect, when used in the past, refers to states that continue to the present because (and as a result) it has no present tense, therefore examples using Past Perfective to prove the point that the English P.P. can be Past in Russian are irrelevant.

Now, saying that the English P.P. can be translated as both Russian Present or Past Imperfective to mean the same thing is simply wrong. Yes, it can be translated as both in some cases. No, it won't mean the same thing.

"Я давно учил английский"* cannot* mean that you're still learning English, it unambiguously states you no longer aren't.
"Я изучал английский с давних пор" is, in my opinion, bad grammar. Pragmatically the Past Imperfective contrasts with the Present Imperfective in that it *limits* the action *to the past*, and I would consider combining it with an ongoing time reference a logical mistake – the intended meaning is impossible to determine.

Compare "Я давно открывал окно" vs. "Я давно открываю окно". The first one can in no circumstances mean that you're still opening the window.

With *negation*, however, it's more complicated, since in Russian both the Present and the Past tense can be used, expressing a different attitude to the present.

"Я так давно не ел арбуз, какая вкуснятина!" ~ "I haven't eaten watermelon in such a long time, it's so yummy!" – here, the English P.P. refers to the present even though the state of not having eaten watermelon is technically over. In the speaker's mind however, he's just started eating but hasn't finished, therefore the usage. The Russian sentence, on the other hand, expresses contrast between the present and the past, more on that further.

"Я давно не ел арбуз, надо бы купить." – unlike in the above example, the state is still ongoing, but the primary meaning is likewise that of contrast between the actual and the desired state. _Не ем_ is only possible here if you want to stress the relevance to the present: "Что-то я давно тебя на работе не вижу."

"Я давно не ем арбуз, у меня аллергия." – the difference with the above example is that the state is *both* ongoing and desired. It's also translated with the English P.P.: "I haven't eaten watermelon since I found out I had an allergy to it". _Не ел_ is logically wrong here.

To sum it up, in positive sentences, the difference between the tenses in Russian is that of relevance to the present. In negative sentences, the primary difference is the presence or lack of contrast between the past and the present states, while relevance to the present is only marked by the present tense.


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## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> Compare "Я давно открывал окно" vs. "Я давно открываю окно". The first one can in no circumstances mean that you're still opening the window.



- Как вор cмог проникнуть в нашу квартиру?
- Через окно в кухне.
- Почему оно было открыто?
- Да я его уже *давно открывал*. Чтобы на ночь проветривать.


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## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> - Как вор cмог проникнуть в нашу квартиру?
> - Через окно в кухне.
> - Почему оно было открыто?
> - Да я его уже давно открывал. Чтобы на ночь проветривать.


Are trying to say that the speaker is opening the window during the dialogue?


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## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> Are trying to say that the speaker is opening the window during the dialogue?



No. I am trying to say that we can always use Russian past tense for translation of Enlgish present perfect. And I am not quite sure why do you suggest that English present perfect mean that action expressed by this tme should be done exaclty at the moment of speaking. I have always thought that it is a function of English present continious tense, not present perfect one. Does the phrase "I have eaten" means that the person who say that is still eating while he is speaking?


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## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> No. Does the phrase "I have eaten" means that the person who say that is still eating while he is speaking?


The English P.P. refers to a state. The Russian Past Imperfective in your example refers to a one-time event in the past: "I opened it a while ago to let some fresh air in". This is contrasted with the Present Imperfective "Я его уже давно открываю, чтобы на ночь проветривать." to refer to an ongoing state. This is one of the primary pragmatic contrasts between the two tenses in Russian, and frankly, I cannot believe a native Russian speaker doesn't see it. While technically, the sentence could tentatively refer to a past state with no reference to the present, pragmatically, the usage is hard-wired. Present if the state or event is ongoing; past if the state or event isn't on-going (but it may have been in the past). Here's an example where it can refer to a state that was on-going in the past:

-Лет десять назад я каждую ночь открывал окно, чтобы проветрить. Так что ты думаешь? Через него пролезли и телевизор украли!

I could've wagered that your example would be unambiguously understood by 100% of Russians as referring to a one-time event, but after reading your post I guess I'd wager it's 99.9% now.


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## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> The Russian Past Imperfective in your example refers to a one-time event in the past.



No. Russian past in my example refers to repeating actions in the past which has effect on the ongoing issue with thieves.


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## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> No, Russian past in my example refers to repeating actions in the past which has effect on the ongoing issue with thieves.


This is reserved for the present tense in Russian. I'm sorry, but it just is. You use the present tense to refer to the present if you want to be understood. Земля вращается вокруг Солнца. Автобус прибывает по расписанию. Я дышу кислородом. Я давно открываю окно на ночь.


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## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> This is reserved for the present tense in Russian. I'm sorry, but it just is. You use the present tense to refer to the present if you want to be understood. Земля вращается вокруг Солнца. Автобус прибывает по расписанию. Я дышу кислородом. Я давно открываю окно на ночь.



Are you sure that all your examples above should be translated into English by using present perfect tense?


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## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> Are you sure that all your examples above should be translated into English by using present perfect tense?


We're specifically discussing the Russian meaning and usage with no relation to English. In Russian, all of the examples are grammatically the same, with the difference in meaning expressed by the adverb _давно. _Земля давно вращается вокруг Солнца.


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## Vadim K

Sobakus said:


> We're specifically discussing the Russian meaning and usage with no relation to English. In Russian, all of the examples are grammatically the same, with the difference in meaning expressed by the adverb _давно. _Земля давно вращается вокруг Солнца.



I am sorry but it is the topic about English present perfect and English present continiuos tenses only. I have not discussed anything else which were not related to both of them.


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## Sobakus

Vadim K said:


> I am sorry but it is the topic about English present perfect and English present continiuos tenses only. I have not discussed anything else which were not related to both of them.


This is simply not true – the English translation of a Russian phrase cannot change the meaning of the Russian phrase, – and an attempt to evade continuing discussing the issue. As you wish.


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## zhizn9797

Vadim K said:


> *Дорогая, мне так хочется поцеловать тебя сейчас. Более того - я давно хотел это сделать.*
> 
> What do you think about that phrase? If the person who says that no longer wants to kiss?


The point you bring up makes sense here.


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## zhizn9797

Sorry to keep asking questions but how would the english sentence "I had long wanted to meet him" translated into russian?


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## Sobakus

zhizn9797 said:


> Sorry to keep asking questions but how would the english sentence "I had long wanted to meet him" translated into russian?


Я давно хотел с ним встретиться (by appointment)/его встретить (run into). As I've already mentioned, if the state isn't on-going, use the past tense.


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## zhizn9797

I totally understand. Thanks.


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## zhizn9797

Vadim K said:


> No. I am trying to say that we can always use Russian past tense for translation of Enlgish present perfect. And I am not quite sure why do you suggest that English present perfect mean that action expressed by this tme should be done exaclty at the moment of speaking. I have always thought that it is a function of English present continious tense, not present perfect one. Does the phrase "I have eaten" means that the person who say that is still eating while he is speaking?


"I have eaten" is different from "I have been eating" - That's exactly where the confusion lies.


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## Drink

zhizn9797 said:


> "I have eaten" is different from "I have been eating" - That's exactly where the confusion lies.



I have been eating at this restaurant for ten years and now it is closed. Could I still be eating there?


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## zhizn9797

In that case,  if the restaurant is closed at the time the speaker is talking, you normally wouldn't say "I have been eating at this store for 10 years and now it is closed".,You would say "I ate at this restaurant for 10 years at now it is closed. "Have been" signifies that the action is still ongoing. You can't still be going to the restaurant if it is already closed.


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## Enquiring Mind

As shown here (source: usefulenglish.ru), there are (at least) four criteria that can justify the present perfect. It doesn't *always* mean that the action has to be going on at the time the statement is made, that is why it is important to judge each case on its contextual merits: _Meaning 1: The action has just ended. Meaning 2: Reporting how often something has happened up to now. Meaning 3: The result of past actions up to the present moment. Meaning 4: The action has lasted for some time up to now._
And we've lost sight of the magic давно which was in the OP's question, and which is a marker for the use of the present perfect.  It's certainly not true to say that the English present perfect tense can always be translated by a past tense in Russian.



> ... you normally wouldn't say "I have been eating at this store for 10 years and now it is closed".


  This tense usage is perfectly ok in BE usage, zhizn.


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## Drink

zhizn9797 said:


> In that case,  if the restaurant is closed at the time the speaker is talking, you normally wouldn't say "I have been eating at this store for 10 years and now it is closed".,You would say "I ate at this restaurant for 10 years at now it is closed. "Have been" signifies that the action is still ongoing. You can't still be going to the restaurant if it is already closed.



I'm going to have to simply disagree. Here are some quotes I found in Google books:
- All this time I've been going to work, but now I want to stay in the hospital.
- I have lately been going to leeward, but now I think I am working to windward again.
- I've been getting D's in history but I got a B yesterday.


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## zhizn9797

I concede your point partly. I you qualify each statement with "but now " and then describe some present action, then it is correct but if you just say "All this time I've been going to work" then it is still the present continuous referring to past events that continue up to the moment of speaking. In that case, you should use the present tense in Russian when translating it.

уже несколько месяцев я хожу в этот ресторан. - I have been going to this restaurant for several months (and I am still going).

я несколько месяцев ходил в этот ресторан но теперь он закрыт. - I have been going to this restaurant for several months but now it is closed.


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> It's certainly not true to say that the English present perfect tense can always be translated by a past tense in Russian.



Could you please advise me an example of any phrase in English with using present perfect tense which in no circumstances can be translated into Russian by using Russian past tense?

And I can give you the opposite example where the phrase in English with present perfect tense can not be translated into Russian by using Russian present tense.

For example, "I should turn down your invitation. I *have *already *watched *this film".


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## Vadim K

zhizn9797 said:


> I have been going to this restaurant for several months (and I am still going).



Из беседы в ресторане во время ужина.

- Откуда вы знали, что мы найдем в этом ресторане такую великолепную кухню?
- Я *ходил *в этот ресторан несколько месяцев.


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## zhizn9797

No need to. I agree with you already.


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## Enquiring Mind

[Answering post 64]
- А сколько времени вы ее знаете? And how long have you known her?
- Я знаю её уже два года - I've known her for two years (and I still know her).
It's not possible to say Я знал её уже два года in this English sense. Я знал её уже два года means I had known her for two years, or I knew her for two years. This doesn't tell us (in Russian or English) whether I still know her when I make the statement.  "Know" in this sense (быть знаком) is, of course, a state. And your co-native-speaker earlier noted in #20 Я давно учу английский.

Сколько времени вы с ней встречаетесь?
How long have you been going out with her? (You're still going out with her)
(Or How long have you gone out with her?)

Сколько времени вы меня ждете?  How long have you been waiting for me? (You're still waiting)
(Or How long have you waited for me?)


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## zhizn9797

You are right.


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## Vadim K

Enquiring Mind said:


> [Answering post 64]
> 
> Сколько времени вы с ней встречаетесь?
> How long have you been going out with her? (You're still going out with her)
> (Or How long have you gone out with her?)
> 
> Сколько времени вы меня ждете?  How long have you been waiting for me? (You're still waiting)
> (Or How long have you waited for me?)



How long have you been going out with her? (You're still going out with her)
(Or How long have you gone out with her?)

Сколько времени вы *встречались *с ней? Сколько времени вы *провели *вместе с ней? - *CORRECT.*

Сколько времени вы меня ждете?  How long have you been waiting for me? (You're still waiting)
(Or How long have you waited for me?)

Сколько времени вы меня *ждали*? Сколько времени вы меня *ожидали? *Сколько времени вы меня *прождали? - CORRECT.
*
As for you first example (I have known her for 2 years) I will think about it tomorrow.


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## Enquiring Mind

We seem to be going round in circles, Vadim. Сколько времени вы *встречались *с ней? is certainly grammatically correct, but it is a standalone sentence out of context. I think we need to see the sentence in a context, and then I think it probably means How long did you go out with her? (You're no longer going out with her when this statement is made)

Google:_ No results found for *"Сколько времени вы встречались с ней?"*._

The same applies for Сколько времени вы меня *ждали*? How long did you wait for me?  (You're no longer waiting when the statement is made)
Google: _No results found for *"Сколько времени вы меня ждали?"*
_
Let's look at this tense use in context.
(Source: woman.ru)
_Женщины, которые замужем за иностранцем: сколько времени вы ждали предложения, как часто встречались?
Women who have married foreigners: how long did you wait for him to propose, how often did you see each other?
Вопрос собственно в теме: интересно как долго и как часто встречались женщины со своими любимыми из-за границы (интересует Европа). Мы встречаемся уже год. Мне за 30, ему за 40...._
_......... What we want to know is how long and how often women met their loved ones from abroad (Europe)._
_We have been seeing each other for a year now ..._


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## Sobakus

And yet again *Vadim K* adds to the confusion by pouring some perfective aspect to the mix, so I suppose it's worth repeating that the perfective aspect combined with the past tense refers to state changes with no upper limit, usually still ongoing in the present, and as such is the usual translation of the P.P. whenever it refers to accomplishing something, such as watching a film, going to the shops or having spent a good evening with someone.

As for the rest, I don't think anyone here is capable of convincing *Vadim K* that there's a difference between "мы давно встречались/я давно открывал окно/Земля давно крутилась вокруг Солнца" and their present tense counterparts when he absolutely insists there isn't.


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## zhizn9797

I think there is a difference and I agree with you.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> Are trying to say that the speaker is opening the window during the dialogue?


It means that the window remains open at the time of dialogue, underlying Russian Perfect.
Put it this way: "Окно открывалось давно, чтобы помещение проветривалось". Despite imperfective aspect of both verbs, the entire phrase has a Perfect meaning.


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## Sobakus

Rosett said:


> It means that the window remains open at the time of dialogue, underlying Russian Perfect.
> Put it this way: "Окно открывалось давно, чтобы помещение проветривалось". Despite imperfective aspect of both verbs, the entire phrase has a Perfect meaning.


The subject of the sentence is _я_, not _окно_, and the predicate is _открывал_, not _открывалось_. _Окно _is the object and may have a very intriguing history behind it, but the predicate completes the subject, thus it's the subject's state we're talking about. Additionally, Russian has no Perfect – in Old East Slavic, that would be *_я есмь открыл_, meaning "I have opened (now)". There's no Perfect meaning to your phrase either – "окно открывалось давно" doesn't state *anything* about the present state of the window – the meaning is that of the Aorist, an action pure and simple. And there's certainly no mention of the window's current state in the original "я его уже давно открывал" – this can only be determined from the context.

There's really no reason to complicate things by applying English grammar terminology to Russian, especially since it's very important for learners to disassociate the Russian Perfective Aspect and the English Perfect Tense – they're completely different.


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## Rosett

Sobakus said:


> The subject of the sentence is _я_, not _окно_, and the predicate is _открывал_, not _открывалось_. _Окно _is the object and may have a very intriguing history behind it, but the predicate completes the subject, thus it's the subject's state we're talking about. Additionally, Russian has no Perfect – in Old East Slavic, that would be *_я есмь открыл_, meaning "I have opened (now)". There's no Perfect meaning to your phrase either – "окно открывалось давно" doesn't state *anything* about the present state of the window – the meaning is that of the Aorist, an action pure and simple. And there's certainly no mention of the window's current state in the original "я его уже давно открывал" – this can only be determined from the context.
> 
> There's really no reason to complicate things by applying English grammar terminology to Russian, especially since it's very important for learners to disassociate the Russian Perfective Aspect and the English Perfect Tense – they're completely different.


Leaving aside Aorist for now, we have to admit the fact that, despite a certain lack of proper grammatical tools, перфект exists in modern Russian unavoidably. It can be expressed, in particular, by прошедшее время carrying some of перфект functions along.
The phrase "Окно открывалось давно, чтобы помещение проветривалось" is an example of how it works. The window either had stayed open or have stayed open. You may want rephrase it to "Я давно открывал окно, чтобы помещение проветривалось". Continuation is implied by the contextual "проветривалось".


Sobakus said:


> Additionally, Russian has no Perfect – in Old East Slavic, that would be *_я есмь открыл_, meaning "I have opened (now)".


Well, this form of перфект may be gone from textbooks, but not from the language.
Ex: В настоящем времени: "Не обращайте внимания: девушка немного рехнувши(сь)".
"Спасибо, мы уже поевши".
В прошедшем времени: "Другими словами: синьора была немножко рехнувшись" (a literary example.)
"Здесь где-то немцы были засевши".
В будущем времени: "Даже если верхний слой будет подтаявши, под ним нормальный, толстый, прочный лёд".
"Например, вполне возможно, что после 24 часов нервная трубка будет свернувшись калачиком на себя и НК не будет мигрировать" (a research topic.)


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