# Persian: Khane zad



## ebrahim

Hello, 

Do we have any English word for 'khane zad' (خانه زاد)? I'm trying to translate a short story in which I came across 'زن و شوهر خانه زاد' and after coming to the conclusion that they both were born in their parent's lords' houses, with the help of some friend, I'm now both in doubt about the meaning I got and the way I can render it into English. Would you please help in finding a solution?


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## PersoLatin

ebrahim said:


> and after coming to the conclusion that they both were born in their parent's lords' houses, with the help of some friend, I'm now both in doubt about the meaning I got and the way I can render it into English.


I don't quiet understand this, but I hope this is what you are after:

In the UK these days, women can have their babies at home and that choice is referred to as '*home birth*'. Although it is a trend ('birth pool' is another), the term must been around well before hospitals became the popular place to have babies.

in fact I had't heard of the term خانه زاد (xânézâd) until I saw it your post, but the word is so beautifully Persian that I didn't think about that fact.


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## ebrahim

I'm afraid you didn't get what I meant probably because I didn't explain clearly enough. I'm talking about a child whose parents were working in a rich man's house as servants and probably he was born and raised in that house.


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## PersoLatin

is خانه زاد an actual Persian term for children who are born in their parents' masters' house? In other words, is the short story originally Persian?


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## fdb

The phrase “born in the house” is used in precisely this meaning in the “King James” English translation of the Bible in Genesis 17:25 to 27: “And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.” 

In other words: All of Abraham’s servants/slaves were circumcised, both those who had been born on his estate, and those he had bought from someone else.


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## Alfaaz

ebrahim SaaHib, here are entries from Steingass and Platts:


> خانه زاد _ḵẖāna-zād,_ Born in the family; the child of a slave.





> P خانه _ḵẖāna_—_ḵẖāna-zād_, s.m. 'Born in the house'; child of a slave, a slave


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## ebrahim

PersoLatin said:


> is خانه زاد an actual Persian term for children who are born in their parents' masters' house? In other words, is the short story originally Persian?


Yes, it is originally Persian but I'm not sure about the meaning I understood from it.


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## ebrahim

fdb said:


> The phrase “born in the house” is used in precisely this meaning in the “King James” English translation of the Bible in Genesis 17:25 to 27: “And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him.”
> 
> In other words: All of Abraham’s servants/slaves were circumcised, both those who had been born on his estate, and those he had bought from someone else.


Interesting! thanks so much for your good example.


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## ebrahim

Alfaaz said:


> ebrahim SaaHib, here are entries from Steingass and Platts:


These are helpful definitions indeed. Thanks a lot.


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## PersoLatin

PersoLatin said:


> in fact I had't heard of the term خانه زاد (xânézâd) until I saw it your post, but the word is so beautifully Persian


Its associations with slavery has taken the beauty out of the word.


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## PersoLatin

ebrahim said:


> Yes, it is originally Persian but I'm not sure about the meaning I understood from it.


Yes, that's how I saw it, a very innocent looking Persian word with an obvious meaning, but here, it is loaded with negative connotations. 

Maybe we should add 'so-called'/*معروف ‏به* to *خانه زا د *in such contexts, so that we can still use it, on its own, in other contexts.


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## ebrahim

PersoLatin said:


> Its associations with slavery has taken the beauty out of the word.


I think slavery is a strong word for the connotation this context implied. It's more related to serving a house as a paid servant which is very common in most societies-- the kind of aristocratic families often employ people to do their house duties and sometime even these people are very intimate with their employers and sometimes they are close confidants for them.

Apart from that, we have غلام خانه زاد in Persian which means a servant whose parents were servants of his/her employer's parents.


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## ebrahim

PersoLatin said:


> Maybe we should add 'so-called'/*معروف ‏به* to *خانه زا د *in such contexts, so that we can still use it, on its own, in other contexts.


I haven't got what you mean here, I'm afraid.Besides, I'm translating this word into English, not using it in Persian.


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## PersoLatin

I get a feeling, this doesn't helps you with your search for the correct English word.



ebrahim said:


> Apart from that, we have غلام خانه زاد in Persian which means a servant whose parents were servants of his/her employer's parents.


Surely this should say "...whose parents were *slaves* of his/her employer's parents" otherwise what's the difference between the two? *غلام* makes it obvious what it is.



ebrahim said:


> I think slavery is a strong word for the connotation this context imply.


For *خانه زاد *Loqatnâmé lists *بنده زاد. چاکرزاد. غلام زاد. اولاد بنده *(as well more normal meanings), this together with what Alfaaz (& fdb) provided, leaves no doubt, as to its meaning.


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## PersoLatin

ebrahim said:


> I haven't got what you mean here, I'm afraid.


In English, if you use 'so-called' before a word, you disassociate/distance yourself from a particular meaning of that word, which an individual or a group, uses. And I was suggesting that maybe *معروف ‏به *can act in the same way in Persian, for such situations. But please don't quote me on this


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## darush

سلام
 بتونه به شما کمک کنه. البته معنی زن و شوهر خانه زاد رو نمیده ولی همنطور که گفتم ممکنه مفید باشهsurfشاید کلمه ​


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## PersoLatin

Serf comes from the Latin for slave, in the last few centuries the meaning has changed to, people who work & cultivate the land.

I think the best translation is house-born or "born in the house" as in fdb's post #8, the English reader will know what it means so job done.


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