# Iberoamérica



## Margash

Hi,

This is not a question, it's actually a correction.  According to the Real Academia Española, Iberoamérica is comprised of the countries in the Americas that were Spanish or Portuguese colonies.  Hence, this translation is incorrect. 

Saludos.

Margarita


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## fuzzzylogix

What's not correct? Iberia is composed of Spain and Portugal.


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## abeltio

Margash said:


> Hi,
> 
> This is not a question, it's actually a correction. According to the Real Academia Española, Iberoamérica is comprised of the countries in the Americas that were Spanish or Portuguese colonies. Hence, this translation is incorrect.
> 
> Saludos.
> 
> Margarita


 
Are you referring to the translation of "iberoamérica" in the WR dictionary?

If you are certain that the translation is wrong, please feel free to send a message to the WR dictionary and they will surely take your recommendation and display the correct translation.

http://forum.wordreference.com/sendmessage.php

use the: Dictionary Error option


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## Margash

The translation in the page is "Latin America," which would be incorrect.


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## Margash

Sorry, I didn't read the second message.  How do I write to the WR dictionary?


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## MeL 07

Margash said:


> The translation in the page is "Latin America," which would be incorrect.


 
Siempre creí que eran sinónimos... 

MeL


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## fuzzzylogix

MeL 07 said:


> Siempre creí que eran sinónimos...
> 
> MeL


 
Actually, they are. English speakers never say: Iberoamerica. They say Latin america or South America.

The spanish speakers use Hispanoamerica to refer to the Spanish speaking nations of South America.


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## talshanir

Para mí lo siguen siendo, Iberoamérica y América latina es lo mismo.


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## talshanir

South America does not include all the countries "iberoamericanos". Mexico is in North America and Panama, Honduras, etc are in Central.


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## MeL 07

fuzzzylogix said:


> Actually, they are. English speakers never say: Iberoamerica. They say Latin america or South America.
> 
> The spanish speakers use Hispanoamerica to refer to the Spanish speaking nations of South America.


 

 South America is not the same. For example: Mexico is in North America but it belongs to Latin America or Iberoamérica.

Cheers!

MeL


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## chokex

Para empezar México no esta en North America, sino en Central America.


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## ScottFromUtah

chokex said:


> Para empezar México no esta en North America, sino en Central America.


¿De veras? Parece que hay diferentes ideas sobre el asunto. Voy a asumir que Wikipedia tiene razón.


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## CarolMamkny

chokex said:


> Para empezar México no esta en North America, sino en Central America.


 
Ummmm.... Que yo sepa esta en Norte America... Por algo estaban en el NAFTA no?


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## greenie

Hola a todos,

In my view Latin America and Iberoamérica are not the same.  Latin America consists of countries where the language spoken is a romance language so that includes Haiti which is not a part of Iberoamérica.  This is actually a debatable issue among some Latin American scholars.  I am among the group that believes that Haiti should be included in the term Latin America, but I am interested in hearing what other foreros think.

greenie


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## Margash

According to the Real Academia Española:

*Latinoamérica*. Nombre que engloba el conjunto de países del continente americano en los que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín (español, portugués y francés), en oposición a la América de habla inglesa: _«El cálculo_ [...] _de sujetos potenciales del derecho indígena colectivo es por ahora imposible, particularmente en Latinoamérica. En Canadá y Estados Unidos hay sistemas más formalizados de registro público»_ (Clavero _Derecho_ [Méx. 1994]). Es igualmente correcta la denominación _América Latina._ Para referirse exclusivamente a los países de lengua española es más propio usar el término específico _Hispanoamérica_ (→ Hispanoamérica) o, si se incluye Brasil, país de habla portuguesa, el término _Iberoamérica_ (→ Iberoamérica). Debe escribirse siempre en una sola palabra, de modo que no son correctas grafías como 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			



_Latino América_ o 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	


_Latino-América. _Su gentilicio es _latinoamericano_.


BTW, Mexico is in North America.  Americans and Canadians sometimes eliminate it, probably because of economic and language issues.  However, geographically, it is part of North America.

Central America starts in Guatemala and Belize and ends in Panama.  South America starts in Colombia and ends in Argentina/Brazil.


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## greenie

Estoy de acuerdo contigo, margash.


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## Oldy Nuts

I also agree with Margash. Except that South America ends in Cabo de Hornos (Cape Horn), which is in Chile; and Brasil is thousands of miles North of that.


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## Margash

Ha ha. Geography is NOT my strong suit.


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## José Antonio P

For the purposes of information, Latin America is a concept coined by Frenchs to refer to the former Spanish and Portuguese possessions in the Americas. This concept is intentionally misleading, because Romans never conquered the Americas, as it is evident. Unfortunately, such term has successed worldwide, even between Spanish-speaking individuals. The rationale under the creation of this term was that France in the time of the Empire of Napoleon III tried to obtain some sort of influence in Mexico and other former Spanish settlements. They created this concept to give an idea that that the former Spanish and Portuguese possessions were in turn a Mediterranean-European commonwealth, when in fact France never conquered anything in the Americas, apart from some insignificant -from a territorial and strategic standpoint- possessions in the Caribbean (including Haiti) and the French Guyana. This term was created in order to attempt to give France any kind of importance it never had in the region from a cultural standpoint. This term should not be therefore used by any person who likes talking properly, although it is accepted.

Likewise, whereas we have the terms _Hispanoamérica_, _Iberoamérica_ and_ Sudamérica _or _Suramérica, _English language only has South America and Latin America. South America is a very good term, but it does not include neither Mexico, which is North America, nor Central America.

_Iberoamérica _is a very broad term, but it does not include countries such as Haiti, Belize, Jamaica, French Guyana, Suriname, Guyana, etc. It is only appropriate when talking about the countries speaking Spanish and Portuguese.

_Hispanoamérica_ is finally a word which has embedded all the Spanish-speaking countries (it is some sort of _Iberoamérica_ minus Brazil).

I never use "Latin America" nor "Latinoamérica" when I talk or write in Spanish or English, because for me it is a term which is historically incorrect, although it is accepted. I prefer using _Iberoamérica_, _Hispanoamérica_ or _Sudamérica _(or South America). If you are Spanish or Portuguese, you should not use such term, because it was created intentionally on a worng basis. If you are national from a Spanish or Portuguese speaking country in the Americas and you are proud of your origins, you should not accept such term.

And, finally, for Greenie, I agree with you. If you decide to use the term Latin America, it should definitively include Haiti, as well as the French Guayana, Martinique, Dominique, etc. In fact that was the purpose of French people when they invented that word.


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## ScottFromUtah

Wow, José Antonio, I loved your discussion. Your English is impressive (very few errors). Your knowledge of the historical basis of "Latin America" seems impressive.

But I'm not sure now how to react to the fact that numerous universities in the United States have programs in Latin American Studies. These programs are made up of professors and other professionals from the U.S., Canada, and many Latin American countries (if I may be so bold to use the term), who study the history, sociology, politics, geography, etc., of what they call Latin America.

This leads me to believe that the vast majority of historians of Latin America don't take your point of view. I'm not doubting your point of view; I'm just doubting how applicable it is to me, as an American who loves Hispanoamérica and its people, and who converses in English and Spanish about those countries and with its peoples. I'll have to talk about it with my friends who are experts in Latin American Studies and who might even belong to worldwide LASA (the Latin American Studies Association).

I'd love to hear from other native Spanish speakers.


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## xymox

CarolMamkny said:


> Ummmm.... Que yo sepa esta en Norte America... Por algo estaban en el NAFTA no?



Por algo será. From a Canadian perspective, México is definitely part of North America.


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## José Antonio P

Thanks for your compliments Scott, I try to write proper English because I really need it in my job, although everything is improvable.

Coming back to the discussion above, I know that "Latin America" is a widely used term worldwide and everyone is free to use whatever term he or she deems appropriate. I am currently studying in the United States and I have realized how people from the Spanish-speaking countries of the Americas love calling themselves _latinos_ (I definitely prefer the word _hispano_, because it defines them more accurately). I also know that such term is very loved in academic environments here in the United States. Notwithstanding this, for me it is a very curious situation, because in Spain a reasonably well educated person knows that Latin America is an expression which was invented by French people for the purposes set forth above and, consequently, such expression is not quite popular (although it is being increasingly used, even in Spain, probably as a result of the lack of knowledge from the users). Personally, I will never use the expression "Latin America" or _latino_ (the latter only when referring to Romans or their language).

And, lastly, a simile. Spain only had three insignificant settlements in Africa (Equatorial Guinea, then called Spanish Guinea, not anymore insignificant due to the important amounts of oil crude found therein in the last decade, the Northern of Morocco and the Western Sahara, then Spanish Sahara). Portugal had a small amount of territories (Cape Verde, Angola, Mozambique and Guinea Bissau). Italy had Libya and part of Somalia (apart from the unsuccessful occupation of Ethiopia, then called Abisinia). France had definitely a large amount of territories, only exceeded by the English Empire in Africa, from Egypt to Cape Town. Imagine that Spain or Italy had invented the expression "Latin Africa" to refer to the former French, Portuguese and... Spanish and Italian! possessions. This sounds quite ridiculous, because the Italian and Spanish possessions in Africa were too tiny and insignificant and they had no relationship to the French or British Empire, the real powers in Africa. Apply this example, _mutatis mutandi_ (as the Romans, the real _latinos,_ said) to Latin America.

Mutatis mutandi = changing whatever you need to change


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## ScottFromUtah

José, no tengo duda ninguna de tu explicación del origen de la frase Latin America, pero el lenguaje es un organismo viviente que sigue evolucionando. Si usáramos palabras solamente en sus sentidos originales, no podríamos comunicar, pues nadie nos podría entender. Además, una frase como Latin America/Latinoamérica puede evolucionar en maneras muy distintas en español y en inglés. Me parece que "Latin America" ha llegado a tener un matiz aquí en América más positivo que el de que describes.


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## ximenad

Wow you guys, what an interesting and enriching discussion... 

I am translating a Masters Degree prospectus here and they say that the institution also coordinates the   Development and Culture International Network in *Iberoamerica *and the Carribean...

In order to be absolutely accurate, and after this deep discussion, shall I translate it as South America?

Thank you very much...
xoxo


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## José Antonio P

Hi Ximena (nice name, I love it, like the wife of the Cid)

South America is not a good translation of Iberoamérica. It is not because Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean are not comprised within South America but they are "Iberoamérica". Albeit I hate the expression Latin America (even when speaking in English) for the reasons above, I would definitely go for it, because it is widely used in English and it is the most accurate translation, provided that English does not have an expression like "Iberian America".

Or perhaps you could say "Central America, South America, Mexico and the Caribbean", but it may be some cumbersome for a prospectus... it is up to you.

I only recommend not tu use "Latinoamérica" in Spanish and even in English, when you may use another expression. This is my opinion, subject to a better comment from our friend of Utah.

Hope it's useful for you.


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## ximenad

José Antonio P said:


> Hi Ximena (nice name, I love it, like the wife of the Cid)
> 
> *South America is not a good translation of Iberoamérica*. It is not because Mexico, Central America and the Caribbean are not comprised within South America but they are "Iberoamérica". Albeit I hate the expression Latin America (even when speaking in English) for the reasons above, I would definitely go for it, because it is widely used in English and it is the most accurate translation, provided that English does not have an expression like "Iberian America".
> 
> Or perhaps you could say "Central America, South America, Mexico and the Caribbean", but it may be some _cumbersome for a prospectus_... it is up to you.
> 
> *I only recommend not tu use "Latinoamérica"* in Spanish and even in English, when you may use another expression. This is my opinion, subject to a better comment from our friend of Utah.
> 
> Hope it's useful for you.



Hello Jose Antonio

Yes indeed I was named after the Cid's spouse (mostly because my last name is Diaz) and I am half Ecuadorian and half Colombian... although originally it was Dona Jimena in former Castilian but thanks...

ok... now back at this semantic issue.... I am still confused here, moreover "Central America, South America, Mexico and the Caribbean" is actually, as you say "cumbersome for a prospectus"....what do you think Scott?

thanks in advance

xoxo


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## ximenad

Hello guys its me again (what a bugger) lol 
Now I have found something quite interesting...

Maybe shall I use the term Spanish America?... although this would exclude Brazil and the French spoken countries, but I think that- for the purpose of this prospectus- can be apropriate

and here is a very similar thread than the one we have here... FYI

xoxo

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=877873


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## José Antonio P

I wouldn't say Spanish America, because it does not sounds well in English. What about "Spanish-speaking countries in the Americas"?


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## ximenad

Hey Jose Antonio

Creo que estamos "hilando muy delgado"... The United Nations, the World Bank etc... use "Latin America" ..

http://www.eclac.cl/portofspain/
http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXT...K:158889~piPK:146815~theSitePK:258554,00.html

I guess I will stay with that, thanks anyways

Un abrazo


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## José Antonio P

Por supuesto que la puedes usar, el hecho de que a mí no me guste por su incorrección de origen no significa que no se pueda usar.


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## jackiemar

Gracias a todos por las respuestas pero despues de leerlas aún no me ha quedado claro por que término puedo traducir la palabra Iberoamérica, no creo que en España la traducción sea Latin America. ¿Alguien me puede dar más opciones?
Gracias


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## walro

El tema ha estado arduamente discutido en este foro, sin embargo no creo que se haya llegado a una conclusión. Para algunos *Iberoamérica* resulta, en inglés: *Latin America, South America, Spanish-speaking countries in the Americas*, etc. Pero Iberoamérica es más que eso. La palabra *Ibero-America* existe en inglés, lo cual se puede comprobar siguiendo este vínculo http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibero-America y el punto es que no se ciñe puramente a los países al sur del Río Bravo donde se habla español o portugués. Iberoamérica engloba, además de los países americanos y caribeños donde se habla español o portugués, a la propia España y Portugal, naciones que aportaron una cultura a este vasto continente y como parte esencial, los idiomas. Andorra, pequeño estado europeo donde se habla el catalán también se incluye en el grupo, por estar situada precisamente en la península Ibérica.  En cuanto a Latin America, quedó más que explicado, aunque en términos políticos de integración y de identidad hoy se habla de América Latina y el Caribe como un todo, e incluye a los pequeños estados del CARICOM, donde el inglés o el francés son sus lenguas oficiales, pero esto es harina de otro costal.


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## CARJR45

Casualmente vengo de un congreso iberoamericano realizado en Mexico, el cual incluye participantes de Portugal, Espana y de los paises latinoamericanos del contienente americano.

Por lo tanto opino que si hay una diferencia entre el termino Iberoamericano y Latin American

El primero incluye los dos paises de Iberia ademas de los paises latinoamericanos, y el segundo se refiere solo a los paises latinoamericanos.

Lo malo es que parece no existir un termino en ingles para Iberoamericano y lo mas cercano que he visto es "Ibero-American".


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## amoreno2

Iberoamérica include the whole of Latin America plus Spain and Portugal -and Andorra-(Iberia). This are the conutries represented in the "Iberoamerican" Summit (Cumbre Iberoamericana).


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## Amadeuss

Let's see, what was written by José Antonio is completely right.

Hispanoamérica would come from Roman province named Hispania (Iber for the Greek). This territory comprised almost what today is Portugal + Spain, or, what is the same, the Iberian Peninsula, which is all the land between the Pyrenees and the Mediterranean sea. The term Hispania evoluted to España (Spain), but it was not the same territory, this is why it is even recognized in the Royal Academy Dictionary of Spanish that the term Hispanoamérica relates to the american countries that speak Spanish (and not Portuguese).

Iberoamérica would come from the Iberian Peninsula, so it also includes what today is Portugal + Spain.

The term Latin-america comes from the short period in which Spain fell in hands of the Bonaparte's who did not have a way to explain how they controlled Hispanic-america or Iberian-america since they needed to show the world that the land had something to do with France. They could not call the "Americas" French-americas because nobody there spoke French, so they were smart enough to name it Latin-america as Spanish and Portuguese come from Latin, but French too; this way they successfully and sneakily slipped France into the history of America, whose presence in America was and is merely anecdotal, as was the English presence before the Spanish kingdom fell. Two thirds of what today is the U.S.A. was New Spain, now it looks like Mexico has taken back the land lost two centuries ago. 

The question is: Has any country in America ever spoke Latin? The answer is NO (except for some individuals), so it is not appropriate to name any part of America as Latin-america because there isn't any part of Europe called Latin-europe either. There is no country in Europe speaking today Latin, and if we are talking about the roots, even English has Latin roots besides the Saxon ones so the term Latin-america could perfectly and properly encompass the whole American continent, from north pole to south pole.

Many times we are exposed to terminology that is widely used even if it is not correct. I hope I have put some light over the issue.


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## donbeto

Hola Amadeuss y bienvenido al foro.

Es un primer mensaje impresionante.

Recuerdas que todas las palabras son apróximaciones y que rara vez significan exactamente lo que queremos.

A propósito, inglés es 70% latin. Tiene sentido, ya que era la provincia romano "Bretaña" y más tarde conquistado por los franceses.

Debería ser "evolved" en vez de _evoluted_.

Saludos.


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## Amadeuss

donbeto said:


> Hola Amadeuss y bienvenido al foro.
> 
> Es un primer mensaje impresionante.
> 
> Recuerdas que todas las palabras son apróximaciones y que rara vez significan exactamente lo que queremos.
> 
> A propósito, inglés es 70% latin. Tiene sentido, ya que era la provincia romano "Bretaña" y más tarde conquistado por los franceses.
> 
> Debería ser "evolved" en vez de _evoluted_.
> 
> Saludos.


Bien hallado, donbeto y gracias por los aportes.

Tienes razón también, es evolved. Esto ocurre cuando no se pasa un corrector que ponga la luz de alarma ante una metedura de pata de alguien que no revisa lo que escribe. El idioma que utilizo con perfección es el español (con algunos despistes también), el inglés lo tengo algo oxidado y no mejora la cosa cuando empiezo a mezclarlo con el francés, el alemán y el latín que están más oxidados aún. Por eso quería participar en estos foros, para recuperar los niveles y si, de paso, alguien sale beneficiado, mejor.

Saludos


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