# 'Baubles,' said Harry



## Amapolas

I've been re-reading Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince, and there's a dialogue that's supposed to be funny, at least to one of the characters -the Fat Lady-, but I still don't get it.

For those unfamiliar with the books, I should explain that the subjects in the portraits can talk, and this particular portrait conceals the entrance to the children's dormitories. She will allow them in upon hearing a password. During this Christmas season the password is _Baubles_.

Here's the text, then:

_'Baubles,' said Harry to the Fat Lady, this being the new festive password. 
'Same to you,' said the Fat Lady with a roguish grin, and she swung forwards to admit them. _

My question is, first, why she responds _'same to you'_. Does 'baubles' sound like a good wish or a greeting? And second, why _'the roguish grin'_. Is there some kind of innuendo implied? I'd be glad to understand it, if anyone can enlighten me.


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## bennymix

I don't see any innuendo.   Perhaps the suggestion is of camaraderie, as in 'You're one of us.'


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## dojibear

Amapolas said:


> My question is, first, why she responds _'same to you'_. Does 'baubles' sound like a good wish or a greeting?



No, it doesn't. And that may be the "meaning". The people in the painting are alive. I have seen scenes where students greet them in some polite way, and wait for a return greeting, before giving the password.

This time Harry doesn't greet her at all. He just says the password "baubles". I think she is reproving him (gently criticizing him) by pretending "baubles" is an acceptably polite greeting, and returning the greeting ("same to you").

I know of no innuendo-ish meaning for "baubles". Perhaps her "roguish grin" reflects the fact that her comment "same to you" was sarcasm, even mockery, as well as reproof.


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## natkretep

Yes, I agree with dojibear.

It's a bit like how someone says, 'Don't mention it' or 'You're welcome' when the other person hasn't said 'Thank you' in order to highlight that it is missing!


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## Amapolas

She's being sarcastic! Now I get it. Thank you all very much.


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## Trochfa

Hmm. Perhaps I just have a dirty mind, or have had a dirty upbringing, but to me there is a glaring innuendo. (It appears that this is probably BrE.)

The password is "baubles", which are (amongst other things) "shiny *balls*" hung on Christmas trees. If you say "balls" to someone, it is a rude insult. She therefore pretends that Harry has just walked up to her and said "Balls", and so she replies "Same to you" as if she were returning the insult, but her roguish grin tells you that she is only joking and having fun because it is Christmas.

I have known people use "baubles" as a euphemism if they drop something, such as a plate of food at Christmas. It is a way of swearing without actually saying the swear word.

Bauble - Definition for English-Language Learners from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
British : a shiny ball that is hung on a Christmas tree as a decoration


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## Amapolas

Trochfa said:


> Hmm. Perhaps I just have a dirty mind, or have had a dirty upbringing, but to me there is a glaring innuendo. (It appears that this is probably BrE.)
> 
> The password is "baubles", which are (amongst other things) "shiny *balls*" hung on Christmas trees. If you say "balls" to someone, it is a rude insult. She therefore pretends that Harry has just walked up to her and said "Balls", and so she replies "Same to you" as if she were returning the insult, but her roguish grin tells you that she is only joking and having fun because it is Christmas.
> 
> I have known people use "baubles" as a euphemism if they drop something, such as a plate of food at Christmas. It is a way of swearing without actually saying the swear word.
> 
> Bauble - Definition for English-Language Learners from Merriam-Webster's Learner's Dictionary
> British : a shiny ball that is hung on a Christmas tree as a decoration


Yes, I know what baubles are but I hadn't made the connection. Thanks for your reply, this rounds off the whole picture.


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## ewie

Trochfa said:


> to me there is a glaring innuendo.


It's absolutely glaring to me too ~ in fact it was _so_ glaring that I thought of it even before opening the thread


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## You little ripper!

When I read the title of the thread, my mind immediately translated 'Baubles' to 'Balls'. I must have a dirty mind like Trochfa and ewie.


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## sound shift

You little ripper! said:


> When I read the title of the thread, my mind immediately translated 'Baubles' to 'Balls'. I must have a dirty mind like Trochfa and ewie.


So must I, because my mind translated 'Baubles' to  'Bollocks':. Perhaps that happened because that word was sloshing around in my mind following events here earlier this morning.


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## ewie

sound shift said:


> events here earlier this morning.


(I won't ask, Mr S)


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## bennymix

I still don't see a case for an innuendo.  At or after Xmas, the password is changed and now has to do with Xmas, hence 'baubles' as on an Xmas tree.

It seems to me that innuendo about ornaments works better in AE, because we say that hanging on the tree are 'balls',  hence sophisticated Xmas humor as in 'Are your balls up yet?'


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## ewie

Have you never seen a _Carry On_ film, Benny? ~ we see innuendo in everything


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## PaulQ

ewie said:


> Have you never seen a _Carry On_ film, Benny? ~ we see innuendo in everything


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## bennymix

Do you ever say, "He's got a great set of baubles"?
In AE, baubles would more likely be boobs, I think, "She's got a great set of baubles!"


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## sound shift

bennymix said:


> Do you ever say, "He's got a great set of baubles"?


Nope.

The "Same to you" doesn't make sense unless there's innuendo involved. BrE humour differs from AmE humour, and the tone of BrE conversation differs from the tone of AmE conversation; it's often difficult for a speaker of the one variety to grasp the nuance of the other.


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## bennymix

It might be worth mentioning that *HP*, the book, is pretty short on sexual innuendo.  JKR allowed the boys a tiny bit of adolescent prurient talk, but aside from a some 'wand' remarks and the seventh planet exchange, there's very little bald innuendo there (<10).  (I looked at some alleged innuendo lists of others on the 'net.')  JKR buried things rather deep as shown in people's surprise when she said Dumbledore was gay.

Ewie, do you find humor in the HP movies much like that in the 'Carry On' movies?  You're comparing an apple with a pineapple.



sound shift said:


> Nope.
> 
> The "Same to you" doesn't make sense unless there's innuendo involved. BrE humour differs from AmE humour, and the tone of BrE conversation differs from the tone of AmE conversation; it's often difficult for a speaker of the one variety to grasp the nuance of the other.


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## london calling

Trochfa said:


> Hmm. Perhaps I just have a dirty mind, or have had a dirty upbringing, but to me there is a glaring innuendo.


I agree completely. The innuendo was obvious to me as well.


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## Loob

london calling said:


> I agree completely. The innuendo was obvious to me as well.


Ditto


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## lingobingo

Wow. Yet another Brit here gobsmacked that anyone could not see that as mild innuendo.


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## Amapolas

bennymix said:


> It might be worth mentioning that *HP*, the book, is pretty short on sexual innuendo. JKR allowed the boys a tiny bit of adolescent prurient talk, but aside from a some 'wand' remarks and the seventh planet exchange, there's very little bald innuendo there (<10).


You have a point there, and that's probably why I failed to see a connection between baubles and balls. Who knows, perhaps JKR wrote it with a roguish smile on her face, too, and there is a _triple_ entendre, for each reader to interpret as their own 'dirtiness' allows.  So some will understand it as explained by Dojibear and Natkretep in posts 3 & 4, and others will understand what became obvious today. 
Thanks to all for the interesting discussion.


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## london calling

Please note that ALL the Brits (and one Australian) got the innuendo immediately. It is, to us, blindingly obvious.


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## RM1(SS)

Whereas when I hear "baubles," my mind immediately fills in "...bangles, bright shiny beads."


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## RedwoodGrove

RM1(SS) said:


> Whereas when I hear "baubles," my mind immediately fills in "...bangles, bright shiny beads."


Right.


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## velisarius

A vote from me in favour of  the "glaring innuendo" theory. (Saw it - or rather mentally "heard" it - before even opening the thread).


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## ewie

bennymix said:


> It might be worth mentioning that *HP*, the book, is pretty short on sexual innuendo.


This isn't _sexual_ innuendo, BM ~ it's _body part_ innuendo.  Everyone has body parts; and British kiddies are trained to identify and appreciate the 'canon' [] of innuendous references at an early age: they're all falling about laughing at the very mention of _sausages_ from about age three; and more 'sophisticated' jokes about _hillocks, tussocks, cassocks, Trossachs _and anything else that rhymes even vaguely with _bollocks_ (or _pillocks_) have been mastered by age eight.*


bennymix said:


> some 'wand' remarks


Again, _body part_ innuendo.  Every little boy has his own special wand ~ even Harry Potter!


bennymix said:


> Ewie, do you find humor in the HP movies much like that in the 'Carry On' movies?


The only humour I've ever been able to discern in a Harry Potter film (I've never read an HP book) has been of the 'suitable for 10-year olds' variety.  This level of smut is certainly suitable for _British_ 10-year olds
_Carry On_ smut is aimed at, say, 13-year olds and above.

*Extracted from my magnum opus _Why the Dickens Are We so Smutty?_ [unpub.]


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## sound shift

RM1(SS) said:


> Whereas when I hear "baubles," my mind immediately fills in "...bangles, bright shiny beads."


And we BrE speakers don't _normally _say "baubles" when we mean "balls". 'Harry Potter' is make-believe (or so I'm told; I've never touched the stuff), so the language has to be a bit outlandish, even to BrE ears: words are not necessarily to be given a literal interpretation.

In BrE, the interjection "Balls!" means "Nonsense!" Is this the case in AmE too? If it's not, the fact would go some way to explaining why AmE-speaking members differ from BrE- and AusE- speaking members in their interpretation of the Fat Lady's "Same to you".


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## london calling

ewie said:


> *Extracted from my magnum opus _Why the Dickens Are We so Smutty?_ [unpub.]


Thanks for putting it so clearly, Ewie. Smutty British humour explained in a nutshell. 

And please do publish your opus magnus on the subject.


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## Trochfa

I completely agree with Ewie. It is definitely a smutty kind of BrE (and AusE!) humour, which is indeed found within the _Carry On_ films. I can well imagine an interchange between a hospital matron and Kenneth Williams:

Matron: We need to decorate the Christmas tree in the ward properly this year.
K Williams: What would you suggest?
Matron: Baubles.
K Williams: Ooooh....and the same to you!
Kenneth Williams as a doctor in the carry on films and hattie - Google Search:

It is exactly the same sort of humour found in BrE pantomime (panto), performed during the Christmas and New Year holidays. These often include mildly smutty references/inuenndos which the adults and older children instantly recognise, while the younger children just laugh at the silly sounding words.
Pantomime - Wikipedia

It is also the type of humour found on old-style British seaside postcards. (The much milder ones anyway! )


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## RedwoodGrove

sound shift said:


> In BrE, the interjection "Balls!" means "Nonsense!" Is this the case in AmE too? If it's not, the fact would go some way to explaining why AmE-speaking members differ from BrE- and AusE- speaking members in their interpretation of the Fat Lady's "Same to you".


Americans do not use it, in my experience, at least not much. Usually in imitation of BE.


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## ewie

Trochfa said:


> It is also the type of humour found on old-style British seaside postcards. (The much milder ones anyway! )


_spectacles_ ~ Intermediate Level Smut (age 9-11)


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## RedwoodGrove

Said the Englishman: "Oh, that's Herbie, he was my fag at Oxford.
Said the America: My, you British certainly are frank.

(The last is etymologically a misnomer, but accurate nevertheless.)


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## Trochfa

ewie said:


> _spectacles_ ~ Intermediate Level Smut (age 9-11)


 

That's funny, because I've just been looking at one where a woman has fainted while interviewing a kilted Scotsman for a job, and he says "Well, she asked to see my testimonials!"


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## Loob

And just going back a step or two ~ the point isn't that there *is* a "body part innuendo" in the word 'baubles': it's that the - roguish - Fat Lady saw the word as having a rude meaning.


PS. Casting Dawn French as the Fat Lady was a stroke of brilliance!


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## bennymix

I think that's the key Loob, the lady is constructing the innuendo, whether Harry or any nonadult reader got it is another matter.    Adults microexamining the text come up with dozens of 'examples'.   Probably JFK inserted a few; i.e. they're real.



Loob said:


> And just going back a step or two ~ the point isn't that there *is* a "body part innuendo" in the word 'baubles': it's that the - roguish - Fat Lady saw the word as having a rude meaning.
> 
> 
> PS. Casting Dawn French as the Fat Lady was a stroke of brilliance!


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## Trochfa

Loob said:


> And just going back a step or two ~ the point isn't that there *is* a "body part innuendo" in the word 'baubles': it's that the - roguish - Fat Lady saw the word as having a rude meaning.



I agree, that it is the Fat Lady who is using it to make the innuendo, but there must already be an innuendo associated with the word "baubles". Half the BrE speakers (and the Australian speaker) have said that they understood the innuendo before even opening the thread to get the context. The others got it with context. If she'd set "holly" or "Christmas cake" as a Christmas associated password then obviously there wouldn't be an innuendo. (No doubt someone will now prove me wrong! )

Of course the literal definition of the word "baubles" on it's own is not rude - it needs assistance - but that's how innuendos work.

I'm not ashamed to say that I've read all the books. I agree that there aren't many innuendos in them that I've noticed, and this one is pretty mild.


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## lingobingo

Can't let all this pass without mentioning the good old British music hall, and even nursery rhymes, if you look into it.


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## Dretagoto

I've been avoiding opening this thread all day because the title alone immediately made me think of this innuendo, and I didn't want to be disappointed 

I'm glad to find out that there is no disappointment. Just to add another name to the list of Brits who knew what this was about from the three words of the title alone (and to be honest, I see double-entendre in EVERYTHING, which I partly blame on regular access to Carry On films at a young age).

And there aren't all that many, but there are definitely intentional innuendos in the books (like the Uranus one mentioned earlier), mostly to do with wands (for example Hermione's line _"Wands are only as powerful as the wizards who use them. Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people's...")_, as well as plenty of things that us smutty Brits can turn into an innuendo.

"Baubles" here is a clear, intentional, innuendo.


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## lingobingo

Can't wait for someone to start a thread asking why we say "Ooh-er Missus".


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## Amapolas

lingobingo said:


> Can't wait for someone to start a thread asking why we say "Ooh-er Missus".


OK, why then? 
(Can't believe such an old thread got rediscovered and got so long in just a couple of days.)


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## lingobingo

Oh wonderful! I've only just realised it suddenly jumped a year. Thank you Trochfa!


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