# All dialects: segment (of orange), clove (of garlic)



## Ghabi

Hello. Inspired by the pith thread, I would like to know how to say "a segment" of orange or "a clove" of garlic (see photos)? As in, "a clove is enough, you don't need the whole thing". I think they use فَصّ in Egyptian: Can someone confirm? What about other dialects? Thanks!


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## elroy

In Palestinian:

حِزّ بُرْدْقان (_ḥizz burdʾān_)
سِن تُومة (_sinn tōme_)


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## Sun-Shine

Ghabi said:


> I think they use فَصّ in Egyptian: Can someone confirm?


Right, it's "فَصّ" .
فَصّ برتقال 
ق is pronounced as أ
 فَصّ توم


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## I.K.S.

It is ضرس for garlic and بت (bott*) for orange in Morocco


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## elroy

sun_shine 331995 said:


> فَصّ برتقال
> فَصّ توم


 You use the same word for both?  Interesting!

(By the way, in Palestinian فَصّ means "fart" so this is a major false friend! )


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> You use the same word for both?  Interesting!


We useفَصّ for singular and فصوص for plural


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## elroy

Oh, I meant you use the same word for orange segment and garlic clove.  

In Palestinian, the verb “to fart” is فسى (with a س) or فَصَّص (with two ص’s) (or ضَرَّط, but that’s less common in my experience), while the noun (“fart”) is typically فَصّ (there’s also فَسوة as a noun of instance).


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> حِزّ بُرْدْقان (_ḥizz burdʾān_)
> سِن تُومة (_sinn tōme_)


Also سنة توم (but I think the choice depends on context)
I've also heard فص تومة/ توم but this might be affected by the Iraqi word.
In Iraqi Arabic
شيف برتقال (shiif)
فُص ثوم (fuSS)


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## elroy

Mahaodeh said:


> (but I think the choice depends on context)


 How so?

(I don’t think I’ve ever heard سنة تومة.)


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## Mahaodeh

Something like: افرميلي سنة التومة هاي. I'm not very sure though, we don't use much garlic in our cooking at home .


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## elroy

Oh, interesting.  I would say سن in that sentence.


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## djara

In TA, سن ثوم or سنة ثوم sin(na) thuum
برج بردقان burj burdgaan . The same word 'burj' is used for melon and watermelon


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## elroy

djara said:


> The same word 'burj' is used for melon and watermelon


 We also use حِزّ for melons and watermelons, even though in English that would be "slice," not "segment."

Does anyone know the etymology of حِزّ (Palestinian), بت (Moroccan), and/or شيف (Iraqi)?  Is the Tunisian برج from the word for "tower," and if so, what is the relation?


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## djara

elroy said:


> Is the Tunisian برج from the word for "tower," and if so, what is the relation?


My feeling is that it is from the signs of the Zodiac.


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## elroy

Ah, as in, an orange has roughly twelve segments?


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## djara

elroy said:


> Ah, as in, an orange has roughly twelve segments?


Exactly!


elroy said:


> Does anyone know the etymology of حِزّ (Palestinian)


In TA, حَزّ(ة) is used for a mark (not a wound) left on human skin or the bark of a tree, etc. by a rope, a wire, etc. And, in Lisaan:
والحَزّ: الفَرْض في الشيء، الواحدة حَزَّة، وقد حَزَزْت العود أَحُزّه حَزّاً. والحَزّ: فرض في العود والمِسْواك والعظم غير طائل.


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## elroy

djara said:


> In TA,  حَزّ(ة) is used for a mark (not a wound) left on human skin or the bark of a tree, etc. by a rope, a wire, etc. And, in Lisaan:
> والحَزّ: الفَرْض في الشيء، الواحدة حَزَّة، وقد حَزَزْت العود أَحُزّه حَزّاً. والحَزّ: فرض في العود والمِسْواك والعظم غير طائل.


 In Palestinian, حِزّ also means "line," but I'm not sure I see a connection between "line" or "mark" and "segment" or "slice."


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## tounsi51

elroy said:


> Ah, as in, an orange has roughly twelve segments?



We also use برج for a piece of sweet or cake (ex: برج بقلاوة) and as djara said, also for other type of fruits like melon or watermelon

ex: برج بقلاوة


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## djara

elroy said:


> In Palestinian, حِزّ also means "line," but I'm not sure I see a connection between "line" or "mark" and "segment" or "slice."


Most melon types are naturally divided by lines that I would call حزّات (see photo below)
A peeled orange also has similar separation lines between segments.
Don't you think it fits?
See photo here


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## elroy

That might be it!  Nice!


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> In Palestinian, حِزّ also means "line," but I'm not sure I see a connection between "line" or "mark" and "segment" or "slice."


At least historically it did. The Lisaan starts by talking about slicing meat into long pieces, then he says:  وقيل: الحزّ هو القطع من الشيء من غير إبانة (it is cutting into something without completely separating it), then he continues to talk about cutting halfway through things and making marks with a knife or sharp object. It seems that at some point the word meant slicing, then it started to mean cutting only halfway through something.


elroy said:


> and/or شيف (Iraqi)?


 Also used for melons, watermelons, and apples (when cut into slices with a knife)

I didn't find anything in the roots ش و ف or ش ي ف (the latter was about seeing, probably the origin of the colloquial word in many dialects). But I did find in the root ش ف ف where he says: شِفّ معناه إلا شيء يسير, based on his discussion and examples it seems to mean 'a small part of something'. This might be the origin and then the pronunciation and usage changed with time.


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## Sun-Shine

elroy said:


> We also use حِزّ for melons and watermelons.


Usually we say فَصّ for anything consists of فصوص
but we say قطعة or حِتَّه for other things as cake, watermelon
قطعة كيك
قطعة بطيخ


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## Mahaodeh

sun_shine 331995 said:


> but we say قطعة or حِتَّه for other things as cake, watermelon


Just to make it clear, the شيف only refers to a slice such as this:



If you cut it into smaller pieces then it's قطعة or حباية (diminutive of حبة = a piece).


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## Sun-Shine

Mahaodeh said:


> Just to make it clear, the شيف only refers to a slice.
> If you cut it into smaller pieces then it's قطعة.


We say قطعة for both

or  شريحة/حِتِّه for slice andحِتَّه/قطعة for small pieces.
Egyptians use the word حِتَّه for anything to mean a part 
People say حِتَّه even for orange but it's a general word  means قطعة either it's فَصّ or not.


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