# altro che, altroché



## korelli

Dear Friends
Could an Italian expert help me to find a true meaning of  ALTRO CHE.
I was convinced that it meant: niente del genere, al contrario, but to my surpise I found a translation : "of course" in this (WordRef) dictionary, which you can readily check yourselves. Is it OK? 
Best wishes to every one of you from korelli


----------



## Paulfromitaly

*Altrochè* can also mean "of course".

Ti piace la pizza? altrochè!
Do you like pizza? of course I do!


----------



## LGGirl

Esatto, PaulfromItaly. In AE "and how!".


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Wait, we need to differentiate "altro che" and "altroché".
"Questa sì che è una buona pizza, altro che quei pezzi di legno che mangio di solito!" => "This is a good pizza, *not* one of those wooden piece that I usually eat!"
"Ti piace la pizza?" "Altroché!"

(So yes, I think WR dictionary is wrong here)


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Nicholas the Italian said:


> Wait, we need to differentiate "altro che" and "altroché".
> "Questa sì che è una buona pizza, altro che quei pezzi di legno che mangio di solito!" => "This is a good pizza, *not* one of those wooden piece that I usually eat!"
> "Ti piace la pizza?" "Altroché!"
> 
> (So yes, I think WR dictionary is wrong here)



Hai ragione..puoi segnalare l'errore nel dizionario


----------



## Alxmrphi

Wait so "altro che" = "not like", altroché = "of course" 
?


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> Wait so "altro che" = "not like", altroché = "of course"
> ?


Altro che = other than => no way, not at all, not similar, completely different
Altroché = Eccome, come no, certamente => sure, of course

"Altro che andare a scuola, oggi me ne resto a casa!"
"Altroché se ci vado a scuola, mica posso restarmene a casa!"

 or  ?


----------



## Alxmrphi

is "me ne" necessary in the first sentence, isn't "resto a casa" sufficiant enough?
Also, howcome you put "ci vado a scuola", I thought "ci" is only used to represent something already mentioned, so the place doesn't need to be mentioned again? (a scuola)


----------



## korelli

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Altrochè* can also mean "of course".
> 
> Ti piace la pizza? altrochè!
> Do you like pizza? of course I do!


 
Thank you Paulfromitaly for your suggestions. However, I am deffinitely looking for ALTRO CHE written without an exclamtion mark and as one word. According to a translator it should mean: Niente gel genere, Not at all. For example: <Sei stanco? >  <Altro che> [Not at all]. Have any one of you ever found such an interpretation of this frase?


----------



## Alxmrphi

Look at what Nicholas The Italian said, he says "altro che" is used exactly like you're saying you have seen, yes, it means:



> Altro che = other than => no way, not at all, not similar, completely different



*phrase


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> is "me ne" necessary in the first sentence, isn't "resto a casa" sufficiant enough?
> Also, howcome you put "ci vado a scuola", I thought "ci" is only used to represent something already mentioned, so the place doesn't need to be mentioned again? (a scuola)


A me mi piace la frutta! 
Grammatically it's somewhat wrong (or at least not recommended), you're right. Colloquially, it's used.
Just like
"Vado a bermi qualcosa"
"Me ne vado"
ecc.
(Grammar rules behind this? Please don't ask me. In this case I always say it's "emphatic".  )

I'd say that more correctly/formally I should've written:
"Altro che andare a scuola, oggi me ne resto a casa!"
"Altroché se ci vado a scuola, mica posso restarmene a casa!"
but you'd never use such expressions in written language.

"Non ci vado, a scuola!" = "I won't go there, at school!"
"Me ne resto a casa!" = "I'll stay myself here at home!"


----------



## Paulfromitaly

korelli said:


> Thank you Paulfromitaly for your suggestions. However, I am deffinitely looking for ALTRO CHE written without an exclamtion mark and as one word. According to a translator it should mean: Niente gel genere, Not at all. For example: <Sei stanco? >  <Altro che> [Not at all]. Have any one of you ever found such an interpretation of this frase?



Nope..

Are you tired? not at all.
Sei stanco? *tutt'altro*.

If you said "altrochè" instead of "tutt'altro" the meaning would be the opposite.

You could say:

Sei felice*? altro che* felice, sono tristissimo.
Are you happy? not at all, I'm really sad.


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

korelli said:


> For example: <Sei stanco? > <Altro che> [Not at all]


Uhm... unlikely.

"Sei stanco?" "Altroché!" => yes, of course, totally

"Sei stanco?" "Tutt'altro!" => au contraire (as Paul stated above)
"Sei stanco?" "Altro che stanco, sono in formissima!" => not at all
"Sei stanco?" "Ci mancherebbe altro!" => oh God, no!

"Sei stanco?" "Altro che"... unlikely to be written (the pronunciation is identical to "altroché", so beware...).


----------



## Alxmrphi

> I'd say that more correctly/formally I should've written:
> "Altro che andare a scuola, oggi me ne resto a casa!"
> "Altroché se ci vado a scuola, mica posso restarmene a casa!"
> but you'd never use such expressions in written language.


 
So, what I thought it should have been, was right, when you say you'd never use those expressions in written language, are you refering to what I suggested, or what you wrote, because you wrote them in the written language, which makes me think you're refering to my suggestions, which you said were formally correct?

I am very confused lol.

By the way the strikeouts aren't in my quote and they should be (refering to post 11)


----------



## korelli

Nicholas the Italian said:


> Altro che = other than => no way, not at all, not similar, completely different
> Altroché = Eccome, come no, certamente => sure, of course
> 
> "Altro che andare a scuola, oggi me ne resto a casa!"
> "Altroché se ci vado a scuola, mica posso restarmene a casa!"
> 
> or  ?


 
Thanks, Nicholas. You have dispelled all my doubts. There are two different expressions composed of the words: Altro and che. One expression is written as one word and means Of course (Altroche'), the other is written as two words  meaning : Not at all, no way, other than (Altro che) The third interpreration: <Questo e' altro che quello> is obvious and I don't need it. Saluti.


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> when you say you'd never use those expressions in written language, are you refering to what I suggested, or what you wrote,


The latter.
I write here, and in forums generally, the way I'd speak; which is far far different from what I'd write in a tema d'italiano or formal letter or so.

(Forums or fora? lol)

PS: you can add strikeouts with {s}strikedwords{/s} tags (use square parenthesys).



> Thanks, Nicholas.


You're welcome.


----------



## Alxmrphi

The last example of korelli's post is where "che" means "than", the comparison thing? (Questa casa è più grange che largo) etc ?


----------



## korelli

Alex_Murphy said:


> Wait so "altro che" = "not like", altroché = "of course"
> ?


 
Thanks Alex, you and Nicholas have helped me a lot. Saluti


----------



## Alxmrphi

Nicholas the Italian said:


> The latter.
> I write here, and in forums generally, the way I'd speak; which is far far different from what I'd write in a tema d'italiano or formal letter or so.
> 
> (Forums or fora? lol)


 
So as a final clarification, what you wrote, is how people speak, don't use it in writing, wheras omitting "me ne" and "mene" is more correct and I should be encouraged to use this way?


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> The last example of korelli's post is where "che" means "than", the comparison thing? (Questa casa è più grange che largo) etc ?


I think so.
Example: "Non possiamo fare altro che dirglielo..." => [literally] "We can't do other than tell him" ("we can do nothing but tell him")



> So as a final clarification, what you wrote, is how people speak, don't use it in writing, wheras omitting "me ne" and "mene" is more correct and I should be encouraged to use this way?


In this case, yes. In general... I invoke the Fifth Amendment.


----------



## korelli

Paulfromitaly said:


> Nope..
> 
> Are you tired? not at all.
> Sei stanco? *tutt'altro*.
> 
> If you said "altrochè" instead of "tutt'altro" the meaning would be the opposite.
> 
> You could say:
> 
> Sei felice*? altro che* felice, sono tristissimo.
> Are you happy? not at all, I'm really sad.


 
Thanks for your analysis Paul but I would now insist on the follwing interpretation:
Sei stanco? Altro che. = Are you tired? Not at all.
Note that in this case Altro che is written as two separate words and without accento grave. And it means the opposite of Altroché . [By the way, Silvia and Jana, the combination of Alt and 138 is wrong as "e" con accento grave. I couldn't find the right number for that.]


----------



## korelli

Nicholas the Italian said:


> Uhm... unlikely.
> 
> "Sei stanco?" "Altroché!" => yes, of course, totally
> 
> "Sei stanco?" "Tutt'altro!" => au contraire (as Paul stated above)
> "Sei stanco?" "Altro che stanco, sono in formissima!" => not at all
> "Sei stanco?" "Ci mancherebbe altro!" => oh God, no!
> 
> "Sei stanco?" "Altro che"... unlikely to be written (the pronunciation is identical to "altroché", so beware...).


 
So "Altro che" means "Au contraire" or "Tutt'altro"  and
"Altroché" means "Of course" 
Saluti


----------



## Alxmrphi

Ok my turn to try examples:

"Ti piace questo brano di musica?" - "Altroché!"
"Do you like this piece of music?" - "Of course!"

"Le abbiamo già detto che aspeteremmo, non facciamo niente altro che aspettare."
"We have already told her that we would wait, we're not doing anything else but waiting."

"Ho fame, allora, tu hai fame adesso?" - "Altro che, ho mangiato abbastanza oggi!"
"I'm hunry, are you hungry now?" - "Not at all, I've eaten enough today!"

***
Have I used all three ways discussed here correctly (first of all, I can have a guess that the translations are wrong and maybe some of the Italian doesn't make sense, but do I have the right idea to use each one correctly, based on what the English is?


----------



## korelli

Alex_Murphy said:


> Ok my turn to try examples:
> 
> "Ti piace questo brano di musica?" - "Altroché!"
> "Do you like this piece of music?" - "Of course!"
> 
> "Le abbiamo già detto che aspeteremmo, non facciamo niente altro che aspettare."
> "We have already told her that we would wait, we're not doing anything else but waiting."
> 
> "Ho fame, allora, tu hai fame adesso?" - "Altro che, ho mangiato abbastanza oggi!"
> "I'm hunry, are you hungry now?" - "Not at all, I've eaten enough today!"
> 
> ***
> Have I used all three ways discussed here correctly (first of all, I can have a guess that the translations are wrong and maybe some of the Italian doesn't make sense, but do I have the right idea to use each one correctly, based on what the English is?


Dear Alex!
My computer demands prompt replies to your posts but there are so many of them that I'll thank you for all of them here. Your three ways of interpreting altro plus che are correct and to my liking. Thanks!


----------



## Alxmrphi

Yay, thanks to you for helping me understand them, I really wasn't sure.
This will all be tough to remember though


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> "Ti piace questo brano di musica?" - "Altroché!"
> 
> "Le abbiamo già detto che aspetteremmo, non facciamo [faremo] nient'altro che aspettare."
> 
> "Io ho fame, allora, tu hai fame adesso?" - "Altro che fame, ho mangiato abbastanza oggi!" *


* Here, think of "altro che" as "the contrary of": you must specify the contrary of *what*; that's why it's difficult to understand Korelli's "Sei stanco?" "Altro che", no Italian would say that, also because mistakable with "altroché"; instead "Altro che stanco!" is ok. Also, if we want to be picky, still thinking about "the contrary of", a more likely sentence would be "Altro che fame, ho mangiato anche troppo oggi!", while in your sentence you're just saying you're not hungry, but you're not affirming "the contrary".


----------



## Alxmrphi

I see, so you need to state "on the contrary of *what*"

"Non mi piace questa lezione, sono annoiato, e tu?"
"Ah, altro che annoiato, trovo questa lezione molto interessante"

"I don't like this lesson, I'm bored, what about you?"
"Ah, on the contrary/not at all, I am finding this lesson very interesting"

*******

Correct usage now?


----------



## Alxmrphi

Anche.... from another of my threads:



> Sembra che oggi non facciamo altro che sovrapporci!


*
It seems that today we aren't doing anything but crossing!*
(he is saying this to sabrinita, who posted just before him, so I assumed sovrapporci means "crossing" here)


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> Correct usage now?


Yep 



> Sembra che oggi non facciamo altro che sovrapporci!


Yes, here the literal meaning is "other than".


----------



## Alxmrphi

I suppose "other than" and "but" are the equivilent in English in this specific structure

Non studiamo altro che cantare = We aren't studying anything other than singing
Non studiamo altro che cantare = We aren't studying anything but singing

Same thing


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> Non studiamo altro che canto = We aren't studying anything other than singing
> Non studiamo altro che canto = We aren't studying anything but singing


Yes.
Btw:
non facciamo altro che cantare
non studiamo altro che canto


----------



## Alxmrphi

Howcome the different verbs in the 1st person plural require different verbs at the end of the sentence?


----------



## Nicholas the Italian

Alex_Murphy said:


> Howcome the different verbs in the 1st person plural require different verbs at the end of the sentence?


We do... what action? cantare => verb
We study... what subject? canto => nome
But cantare can be used as a noun as well  , so it is not gramatically wrong to say
"Studiamo il cantare"
but I don't know, it's just unused.
On the other side, you may find
"Studiamo lo scorrere del tempo"
but you'll never find
"Studiamo lo scorrimento del tempo"...
Open another thread if you wish. I have no answer at all.


----------



## L'aura che tu respiri

korelli said:


> Thanks Alex, you and Nicholas have helped me a lot. Saluti



Wait, I want to be *absolutely sure* that everyone here is agreeing with this:

"altro che (aggettivo)" = "anything but (adjective)"

Because indeed, the dictionary here says "absolutely."

In this sentence: 

"Luigi stava per compiere vent'anni quando l'incontrai.  Altro che maturo, altro che eccezione!"

According to the dictionary, this means that Luigi was ABSOLUTELY mature and ABSOLUTELY exceptional.

But what you all are saying is that it means that Luigi was ANYTHING BUT mature and ANYTHING BUT exceptional.

Once and for all, which is correct?


----------



## Salbina

Hi,

The correct translation for "altro che" is "anything but", as has been said before, but things are very complicated here an the sentence you quoted this expression can mean two opposite things, according to the context:

1) that Luigi is not only mature but much much more than mature, and, being so mature, not only an exception for his age, but more than an exception (please note that "eccezione" is a noun, not the adjective "eccezionale") for his age. This would be a very emphatic way to underline how mature Luigi was;

2) that, in spite of what who's speaking has previously heard about Luigi, that is, his being a mature boy and an exception for his age, he is not at all as people described him. I personally would go for this second interpretation, but only if the context is what I guessed; otherwise, it can't mean this, and the only possible interpretation is the 1).


Hope it helps, ciao, Salbina


----------



## L'aura che tu respiri

What if Luigi later became a very famous person?  For instance, an old classmate of Obama comes forward and says, "Lo conoscevo all'eta' di venti.  Altro che maturo, altro che eccezione."  Come interpreteresti "altro che" in quel contesto -- sapendo bene che il soggotto e' oggi famoso?


----------



## Salbina

Hi, I would definitely interpret it as "He wasn't as mature and as exceptional as one would expect seeing what he has become in adult age"; this is the most common way we use "altro che", to mean that someone/something is the opposite of what the adjective/noun describes. But there must be necessarily some context that indicates some kind of expectation:

"Mi avevi detto che Luca era simpatico: altro che simpatico, quasi mi addormentavo quando siamo usciti insieme"-------(sorry about this stupid example...).

Saying just "Altro che simpatico, Luca è davvero noioso" wouldn't mean much, because it would sound exactly like starting a sentence with "But": "but" what? If nobody said something about it, you can't say "but it's not like you said". 

On the other hand, "altroché" means "Yes, definitely": 

First friend: "Allora, ti è piaciuta la mia torta al cioccolato?"
Second friend: "Altroché, è la migliore che abbia mai mangiato!"

Hope it helps, ciao, Salbina 

P.S.- Something similar to "altro che" is "macché":

"Ti è simpatico Luca?"
"Macché, è davvero noioso" or "Altro che simpatico, è davvero noioso".

Poor Luca!


----------

