# の散歩の写真



## Encolpius

Hello, I have been uploading some of my photos taken on my walks on an SNS and call them "プラハの散歩の社賓" in Japanese. Does the title of my photos sound natural? Thanks.


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## Flaminius

_Shahin_, 社賓, must be a typo of _shashin_, 写真.  The former is a rare word meaning company's guest and the latter is an ordinary word meaning a photo.


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## gengo

Encolpius said:


> I have been uploading some of my photos taken on my walks on an SNS and call them "プラハの散歩の社賓" in Japanese. Does the title of my photos sound natural?



In addition to the typo mentioned above, I would make one little change:  プラハ*で*の散歩の写真.

Or, you could say:  プラハを歩きながら撮った写真.


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## Encolpius

Oh, of course it was a typo. 🙂
So is プラハの散歩の写真 wrong? What do you think?
プラハ*で*の散歩の写真. - this construction seems very difficult to me. I am just a beginner at Japanese. 😥
Thanks.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

I prefer プラハの散歩の写真 to プラハでの散歩の写真, although both are perfectly fine.
The latter sentence is more-accurately and precisely written when it comes to grammar or logic.
Yet, the former sentence just sounds more natural to my ears.

プラハの散歩の写真 might be confusing when you think, for example, プラハ is a name of a dog or a person.
Or when you think that the city becomes personified, and it walked somehow!
However, normal people or ordinary people would think that プラハ is Prague, the capital city of the Czech Republic, so it's obvious that プラハの散歩の写真 can only mean that プラハでの散歩の写真.

プラハで indicates "where" or the location.
プラハで散歩する is a correct sentence.
プラハで散歩 is a correct noun clause, but プラハでの散歩 is a more natural noun clause.
プラハで散歩した写真 is a correct noun clause.
プラハで散歩の写真 is a correct noun clause too, but プラハでの散歩の写真 is a more natural noun clause.

の seems to be a useful particle to modify a noun.


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## Encolpius

Thank you all. Very nice explanation, Solatidoberman! I think I understood what you meant. I just learnt it is common to use xxのxxのxx in Japanese, so I chose that construction.
I see now, so プラハで散歩  is actually "walking in Prague". I must remember it is often everything reverse in Japanese.
How would you translate  プラハでの散歩 and similar constructions ("XXでのXX") into English? It is difficult, right?


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## gengo

Encolpius said:


> How would you translate プラハでの散歩 and similar constructions ("XXでのXX") into English?



It would just be "a walk in Prague."  As you know, the most basic function of の is to show possession, so if you say just XのY, it sounds like X's Y or the Y of X.  In your context, Prague's walk.  Of course, as Sola says, context and common sense often tell us what the intended meaning is, so we often can use this shortened form.

It's impossible to translate XでのY literally into English, but as you mentioned above, the で just tells us explicitly that it's referring to something that happens in or at X.

Here are some other examples of _での _taken from the Web, and my translations:

これらの戦士は、アステカ軍のプロのコアを形成し、戦場_*での*_成果に応じてランク付けされました。
These warriors formed the professional core of the Aztec army and were ranked according to their achievements on the battlefield.

新型コロナウイルス感染症（COVID-19）の香川県_*での*_発生状況
Outbreak of novel coronavirus infection (COVID-19) in Kagawa Prefecture

現在、薬局等_*での*_無料検査を希望する方が多く、混雑しております。
We are very busy right now because so many people are requesting free testing at pharmacies and other locations.


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## Encolpius

Thank you. Interesting. I got it. 
I'm not sure if I understand プラハで散歩した写真. Does した here refer to 散歩 or 写真, I mean 散歩する or 写真する? I think it refers to 散歩する, because I learned the phrase 写真撮る, right? Thanks.


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## gengo

Encolpius said:


> I'm not sure if I understand プラハで散歩した写真. Does した here refer to 散歩 or 写真, I mean 散歩する or 写真する? I think it refers to 散歩する, because I learned the phrase 写真*を*撮る, right?



Yes, it is 散歩する.  "プラハで散歩した写真" is typical of how Japanese speakers often omit words they consider unessential.  Literally, it makes no sense, because it means "a photo that walked in Prague," but we can understand what the speaker means through common sense.  This is not a construction that I personally would use, but since Sola says it sounds OK, I guess it does.


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## KLAUSED

gengo said:


> Yes, it is 散歩する.  "プラハで散歩した写真" is typical of how Japanese speakers often omit words they consider unessential.  Literally, it makes no sense, because it means "a photo that walked in Prague," but we can understand what the speaker means through common sense.  This is not a construction that I personally would use, but since Sola says it sounds OK, I guess it does.


"プラハで散歩した写真" sounds wrong to me for the reason you stated. I would go with ”プラハでの散歩の写真” if I had to choose from the examples given above but ”プラハで散歩した時の写真” sounds the most natural (and correct) to me.


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## gengo

KLAUSED said:


> "プラハで散歩した写真" sounds wrong to me for the reason you stated.



I'm glad to hear it.  It sounds odd to me, too, but I always hesitate to dispute what a native speaker says.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Then, a lot of Japanese people would say something weird:
"で散歩した写真" - Google Search

この間の海辺で散歩した写真　"a photo that strolled along the beach the other day" 
チョコと二人で散歩した写真　"a photo that walked with Choko"
森の中で散歩した写真 "a photo that walked in the forest"
旅先で散歩した写真 "a photo that walked while traveling"  



> "プラハで散歩した写真" is typical of how Japanese speakers often omit words they consider unessential. Literally, it makes no sense, because it means "a photo that walked in Prague," but we can understand what the speaker means through common sense. This is not a construction that I personally would use, but since Sola says it sounds OK, I guess it does.


So do some native speakers.


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## gengo

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> この間の海辺で散歩した写真　"a photo that strolled along the beach the other day"
> チョコと二人で散歩した写真　"a photo that walked with Choko"
> 森の中で散歩した写真 "a photo that walked in the forest"
> 旅先で散歩した写真 "a photo that walked while traveling"



I don't know why, but those examples sound a bit better to my ear.  At any rate, I certainly don't doubt that people say it this way.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

I understand how you feel. I was thinking about it myself.
Perhaps, you and KLAUSED wouldn't use the pattern (ある特定の地名）で散歩した写真.

And maybe I would say the same thing as KLAUSED when I read this thread at a different time, for example, one year later.
Language is quite strange because when we think of some phrase or grammar from a certain viewpoint, it would be really weird, but when we think about it from a different viewpoint or context, it would become perfectly fine.

I think it depends on how well we are exposed to that phrase/syntax/grammar at that time.


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## Flaminius

Apparently, _-de_ is not the most popular postposition for the verb 散歩する.  My choice is _-o_.  Yes, some intransitive verbs of movement and traverse require the accusative marker.

プラハを散歩した写真 !


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## SoLaTiDoberman

> プラハを散歩した写真 !


The photo that walked around Prague; I think the same interpretation can still be made... once I fell into that trap...


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## KLAUSED

"で散歩した写真" 6,570 results
"で散歩した時の写真" 7,610 results
"で散歩したときの写真" 3,860 results

"を散歩した写真" 308,000 results
"を散歩した時の写真" 664,000 results
"を散歩したときの写真" 302,000 results

Interesting results 😄


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## SoLaTiDoberman

Yeah, interesting.
Now, I've noticed that the resulting number of "で散歩した(時の）写真" may include a different category such as 半袖, ノーブラ, フルチン.    Therefore, the actual number would become even smaller.

Joking aside, the numbers well represent the "naturalness" of those expressions.


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