# Do you cheat at school???



## Thomas1

Hi 

I was wondering how looks the matter of cheating at school in different countries. I would like to find out what is the general attitude to cheating in your country? Is it generally accepted or srtongly disapproved??? Are there any consequences for coping off sb while sitting a test??? Do you cheat ??? And what is your attitude to it???

Regards,
Thomas


----------



## Benjy

i have never cheated in any school test ever. the only time i can remember cheating at anything was at cards with my family when i was younger. in england you can get disqualified from all public exams taken in a school year if it is found that you cheated in just one of them.


----------



## Phryne

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> Hi
> 
> I was wondering how looks the matter of cheating at school in different countries. I would like to find out what is the general attitude to cheating in your country? Is it generally accepted or srtongly disapproved??? Are there any consequences for coping off sb while sitting a test??? Do you cheat ??? And what is your attitude to it???
> 
> Regards,
> Thomas


 
In high school we were experts at it. Now, in college, I condemn it. I'd rather get an F than cheat. 

I guess I've grown up!


----------



## Like an Angel

Benjy said:
			
		

> i have never cheated in any school test ever.


 
The same over here... just because if you cheat, who do you think is the last _damaged_?


----------



## Whodunit

In our school (German high school), it's common to cheat. We have a really stupid teacher: We can look up things in our file without getting watched by the teacher. Cheating with a little paper is "out". We do cheat by writing sth on the pencil case or on the table.

If we get caught, we'll get a 6 (an F) in this subject or rather, firstly a warning. You should take the advantage of it.


----------



## Citrus

In México cheating is a very controversial issue.

Personaly, I've never cheated in school, but (I must confess) sometimes playing games. It´s wrong and I also condemn it.

That aside, in México there is a frase that goes "El fin justifica los medios" (The end justifies the means). So, in order to get what they want, I regret to say, a lot of people in Mexico cheat. I don't intend to send the wrong image of mexicans into this forum, but thigs are the way they are.  

Saludos
Citrus


----------



## alc112

Here is very common to cheat. All my classmates do that, but I don't. I'm a good student.


----------



## Like an Angel

I just answered you part of your question, I'm sorry, here is the rest:

...general attitude to cheating in your country?: some teachers just don't care, they are just intrested in their salaries, but there are good ones, that took your exam off and give you a 4 (not enough to pass the exam).-

Are there any consequences for coping off sb while sitting a test? At University if they catch you cheating you get a 0 and bad referencies in your curriculum/résumé, they draft a statement.-


----------



## cuchuflete

I haven't been in school in decades, so these are memories.  Cheating was pretty rare in high school.  The penalties were harsh.  Where I grew up it was considered a very bad thing to do.

Today grade inflation probably reduces pressure to cheat.  My university still has a very strict honor code.  I don't know to what extent the students enforce it.

saludos,
Cuchu


----------



## Zephyrus

Yes, I did it a couple of times when I was in school, and tried once when I was at the university but I got caught   shame on me!!!! I never did it again. As Like an angel says...who is the last damaged?? it's not the teacher, it's only the student.

Most of the teachers here are very strict regarding cheatting, they usually punish students with a "0".


----------



## Artrella

I never cheated at school, university and I don't cheat now in the Teacher's training course.  I don't like people cheating, because they think they are intelligent in doing that, and the only thing they do is to fool themselves.
In the long run they won't learn anything, but they will pass the exam.  It depends on what you focus your efforts, in learning something or on passing an exam.


----------



## te gato

mmmm Let me think...that was sooo long ago.. 

No not that I can remember..I went to very small schools..with very small classes..so the teachers watched you like a hawk..and when the teachers walked around the room with a ruler in their hands..all the time...you did not DARE even glance sideways!!! 
Plus we were all afraid of the Principal of our school..she would yell so loud that all the little girls would pee their pants.. 
And straping was not un-common in that time either..not a good thing to get!!

te gato


----------



## JLanguage

I try not to cheat at school, but sometimes you can't help it, like when someone accidentally says an answer aloud. One of my friends actually has a brilliant method of cheating. He writes the answers on his ankle, and covers it up with his sock, during the test he occasionally pulls down his sock and presto, there are the answers.


----------



## mnzrob

JLanguage said:
			
		

> He writes the answers on his ankle, and covers it up with his sock, during the test he occasionally pulls down his sock and presto, there are the answers.


 
We used to do that in High School too. If you sit in the back of the class, it's really easy to get away with. You can write it on your wrist too, but make sure to wear long sleeves.
If you got caught cheating in high school, you usually got an F for that test. In college, it got a little more serious. If you got caught cheating there, you usually got kicked out of school for good, and could not re-apply for one year. Obviously, tuition was not reimbursed for those who got kicked out, so not too many people risked cheating in college.

Rob


----------



## Silvia B

In Italy many people do... it is really common.
In the last years of high school it changes..or so happened for my class.
The reason was that, as many of you said, it is just a bad thing for the student..
But, in my opinion, sometimes it can be acceptable.. some maths rules you can't remember for example... 
I think that when one person is a good student and just need a little, and I repeat, LITTLE help with something he really can't remember..it is understandable...
About teachers...it depends..some are really strict...but others are less...
It also depends on school.. In my school they were quite strict and to cheat was very difficult (but not impossible )


----------



## Allanis

Well .. no ! 
I don't cheat at school and I think that cheating is just a way 
to harm yourself .. in the long run ..* no learning .. no earning * !


----------



## Allanis

Oh pobrecita Te Gato ...! 

hhhh.. you have all my support with reference to that principal .. poor little girls !!


----------



## CLEMENTINE

Hi everybody,

I remember that a couple of years ago, a museum was opened in Spain (el museo de la chuleta, if I remember well), a museum dedicated to all kind of inventions created by pupills in order to cheat.
Anyone heard of it ?

Cheerio


----------



## NTFS

yes, cheating is very common here especially among enginering students. when i was in college, before the exams, i use a pencil to write the mathematical formulas that we are using on the cover of my scientific calculator. i just can't can't memorize all those formulas. i guess my brain is not meant for memorizing... ask me to do mathematical computations (especially logical computations, the 1's and 0's w/ the and, or , nor, xor, etc)all day but not to read a book or memorize... 

NTFS


----------



## Philippa

Benjy said:
			
		

> in england you can get disqualified from all public exams taken in a school year if it is found that you cheated in just one of them.


This is what I thought too. I tell the kids this and I still will tell them it! But at the weekend I read in the paper about what actual infringments had been noted and what the consequences were. Candidates who had mobile phones in the exam room (not allowed) and had actually texted someone were only docked points!
Saludos
Horrified of Reading!  
P.S. Of course I never cheated!!


----------



## Thomas1

whodunit said:
			
		

> In our school (German high school), it's common to cheat. We have a really stupid teacher: We can look up things in our file without getting watched by the teacher. Cheating with a little paper is "out". We do cheat by writing sth on the pencil case or on the table.
> 
> If we get caught, we'll get a 6 (an F) in this subject or rather, firstly a warning. You should take the advantage of it.


It's almost the same in Poland, moreover I think we have even more ways to do so, I used to do so a lot at my high school now I only do it when I don't like classes I attend, mainly these are boring lectures. 
The restrictions are also similar to German (who-a coincidence?? ) You will either get 1 (which is the worst possible mark) or a warning.
Nevertheless there're teachers who really don't allow to cheat, when they catch you I'm sure you fail!!



			
				mnzrob said:
			
		

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *JLanguage*
> _He writes the answers on his ankle, and covers it up with his sock, during the test he occasionally pulls down his sock and presto, there are the answers._
> 
> 
> 
> We used to do that in High School too. If you sit in the back of the class, it's really easy to get away with. You can write it on your wrist too, but make sure to wear long sleeves.


A friend of mine while sitting a final exam in highschool used his cell phone during all five exams, maybe it wouldn't be a big thing if not for the fact that three of them were oral and he used the cell when preparing his answers...

Nevertheless since I started my education at colege I've tended to do it less since I noticed that I want to really learn sth "..* no learning .. no earning *!" but my opinion is why do you have to learn stuff you don't like and you know you never going to need it (not mentioning the fact that there're many people who just don't feel like studing at all)???
However I think also that if you really want to acheive sth, if you are really interrested in a subject you don't have to cheat to master it since it's pleasure to study it but what about this stuff that you're not interested in, that's your headache???

Some of you wrote that teachers used rullers or similar stuff and nobody cheated, maybe it's high time to start it over. Do you think that kids should be caned (watch out this can be a tricky queston ) this one sound a little bit 'cavemanish' or strict rules should be enough to prevent it??

Regards and thanks a lot for your opinions, any more coments will be greatly appreciated.

Thomas


----------



## te gato

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> Some of you wrote that teachers used rullers or similar stuff and nobody cheated, maybe it's high time to start it over. Do you think that kids should be caned (watch out this can be a tricky queston ) this one sound a little bit 'cavemanish' or strict rules should be enough to prevent it??
> Thomas


Hey Thomas1;
Yes in my school the teachers walked around with rulers and we were also threatened with the 'Strap'...Some students got 'wacked' some did not..that seemed to be enough to deter us from cheating...
But the rules have changed so much over the years...since I wrote on the cave walls... 
I think maybe some strict rules should be brought back in..not the strap..or getting wacked by the ruler..
but I do not think the cheating will ever stop..if a person wants to cheat..they will find a way no matter what..
As for learning what you do not like..things that you will never ever use in your whole entire life...that is easy..'BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER SAID SO.' 
and who is to say that you will never use that useless information ever in your life...

te gato


----------



## lainyn

I don't cheat. I never wanted or needed to in High School. I remember I used to get really pissed off if people cheated off of me, I take it very personally and I used to get teased for being so uptight. Now that I'm in university, I'm shocked to find out that many people still cheat on assignments, if not tests. There have been times when the opportunity to cheat presented itself, and it's very difficult to turn it down, but so far I have. The only time I remember cheating was this one time in sex ed, when I forgot the names of all the parts of the male genitalia, and I was so afraid of having to do the damn course over again. :-$ - I'm still ashamed of that, but it was in elementary school, and I don't consider it to be a blemish on my moral conscience. I don't respect those who cheat, so that's why I don't (among other reasons). Where I went to school, kids would basically cheat whenever an opportunity presented itself, or whenever they thought they could get away with it. The teachers were far too lax about it, in my opinion. I can't change the world though, so I'm just going to do my bit, and teach my children not to cheat, etc.

~Lainyn


----------



## Whodunit

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> It's almost the same in Poland, moreover I think we have even more ways to do so, I used to do so a lot at my high school now I only do it when I don't like classes I attend, mainly these are boring lectures.
> The restrictions are also similar to German (who-a coincidence?? ) You will either get 1 (which is the worst possible mark) or a warning.
> Nevertheless there're teachers who really don't allow to cheat, when they catch you I'm sure you fail!!



Isn't it the same in Russia that 1 is the worst grade? In Germany, 1 is the best. I actually don't cheat, but if it is a subject I really don't get, and the teacher is that silly so that he doesn't realize you cheating. But it's always good to get only a warning, and not a bad mark or you fail.

I remember a fellow student who tried to cheat and got caught. The teacher approached and asked him what number he cheated. I almost had to laugh during she asked this senseless question. But my classmate said 'Number 4' and my teacher answered: 'Then you won't get any points for number 4'. After the test, we laughed at our teacher. Because I think that, if you cheat, you'll cheat everything and the teacher can't control what you cheated. Am I right?


----------



## Thomas1

whodunit said:
			
		

> Isn't it the same in Russia that 1 is the worst grade?
> I'm not sure but I guess it is so
> In Germany, 1 is the best. I actually don't cheat, but if it is a subject I really don't get, and the teacher is that silly so that he doesn't realize you cheating.
> ...but sometimes...
> But it's always good to get only a warning, and not a bad mark or you fail.
> If it was always good than probably all students would start doing it, that would be a disaster because nobody would learn, everbody would cheat, I guess some strict rules are necessary to prevent it
> I remember a fellow student who tried to cheat and got caught. The teacher approached and asked him what number he cheated. I almost had to laugh during she asked this senseless question. But my classmate said 'Number 4' and my teacher answered: 'Then you won't get any points for number 4'. After the test, we laughed at our teacher. Because I think that, if you cheat, you'll cheat everything and the teacher can't control what you cheated. Am I right?
> If this happened in Polish school you'd probably fail, and have a lot of problems with taking the next test/exam


 


			
				te gato said:
			
		

> As for learning what you do not like..things that you will never ever use in your whole entire life...that is easy..'BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER SAID SO.'
> sometimes they said too much
> and who is to say that you will never use that useless information ever in your life...
> and have you ever needed integals or absolute value after graduating from school???


 
Regards,
Thomas


----------



## te gato

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> Regards,
> and have you ever needed integrals or absolute value after graduating from school???
> 
> Thomas


Hey Thomas1;
Sure I use my integrals all the time..
especially my definate and indefinite ones.. 
are you kidding...NO.. I did not say that all the info they teach will be used in life..but you never know.mmmm

te gato


----------



## Wordsmyth

Hi everyone,

We're up to 26 posts, mostly on 'do cheat or don't cheat', punishments, etc, but I'd like to step back a bit and ask what we really understand by "cheating".

Art's comment is a good start-point:


> In the long run they won't learn anything, but they will pass the exam.


If we accept that education is about learning skills and acquiring knowledge that will (hopefully!) be useful to us in life, I would suggest that:

- Copying someone's ideas or creative work, when you're supposed to be thinking for yourself *is* cheating. (You're not learning/demonstrating skills).

- Getting Mum or Dad, or friends or classmates, to help with your homework when you're stuck *is not* cheating. (Done sensibly, it can help you to learn, to develop team-skills, ...). And yet some teachers still consider it as cheating, because it's not 'all your own work'.

- Copying a whole maths or scientific problem solution *is* cheating. (You're not learning/demonstrating the ability to analyse and solve a problem).

- Writing obscure formulae on your pencil-case *is not* cheating. (In real life you won't need to memorise them: as long as you learn to be organised, you'll know where to find them -- like on your pencil-case!). Too much insistence on rote-learning can often hinder students' progress.

So, NTFS, I really don't think you were cheating:



> yes, cheating is very common here especially among enginering students. when i was in college, before the exams, i use a pencil to write the mathematical formulas that we are using on the cover of my scientific calculator. i just can't can't memorize all those formulas. i guess my brain is not meant for memorizing... ask me to do mathematical computations (especially logical computations, the 1's and 0's w/ the and, or , nor, xor, etc)all day but not to read a book or memorize...


Anyone agree/disagree?   

Meanwhile I'm going to go dust off my integrals -- they're still on my pencil-case!!  

W


----------



## Phryne

Wordsmyth- Writing obscure formulae on your pencil-case [b said:
			
		

> is not[/b] cheating.


 
I guess I didn't cheat as much as I thought!   Wow, what about comparing results during the test? I suppose it's not cheating either, since we are encouraging each other to think about the exercises.

Ufff, that feels so much better!!!!


----------



## Thomas1

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> We're up to 26 posts, mostly on 'do cheat or don't cheat', punishments, etc, but I'd like to step back a bit and ask what we really understand by "cheating".
> Exactly, I knew sth was missing here
> Art's comment is a good start-point:
> 
> If we accept that education is about learning skills and acquiring knowledge that will (hopefully!) be useful to us in life,
> Try to use integrals
> I would suggest that:
> 
> - Copying someone's ideas or creative work, when you're supposed to be thinking for yourself *is* cheating. (You're not learning/demonstrating skills).
> I totaly agree, "you're supposed to be thinking for yourself" and not to abuse the others
> - Getting Mum or Dad, or friends or classmates, to help with your homework when you're stuck *is not* cheating. (Done sensibly, it can help you to learn, to develop team-skills, ...). And yet some teachers still consider it as cheating, because it's not 'all your own work'.
> Generally I agree but if you get Mum or Dad or anyone else to do your home assignemnts because you're too lazy to do them yourself in my humble opinion is cheating
> 
> - Copying a whole maths or scientific problem solution *is* cheating. (You're not learning/demonstrating the ability to analyse and solve a problem).
> Likewise
> - Writing obscure formulae on your pencil-case *is not* cheating. (In real life you won't need to memorise them: as long as you learn to be organised, you'll know where to find them -- like on your pencil-case!). Too much insistence on rote-learning can often hinder students' progress.
> And here I also agree, but there's sth strange in it because in Poland in highschool we were supposed to learn each maths formula by heart and at the end of highschool during the final exam on maths we were allowed to use books with all necessary formulae in them whereas during tests/exams over all highschol we couldn't do so
> So, NTFS, I really don't think you were cheating:
> 
> 
> Anyone agree/disagree?
> 
> Meanwhile I'm going to go dust off my integrals -- they're still on my pencil-case!!
> don't learn them by heart unless you need them


 


			
				te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Thomas1;
> Sure I use my integrals all the time..
> especially my definate and indefinite ones..
> are you kidding...NO.. I did not say that all the info they teach will be used in life..but you never know.mmmm
> 
> te gato


true point Karen you never know... unles *you* know 

Regards,
Thomas


----------



## te gato

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> Hi everyone,
> 
> - Writing obscure formulae on your pencil-case *is not* cheating. (In real life you won't need to memorise them: as long as you learn to be organised, you'll know where to find them -- like on your pencil-case!). Too much insistence on rote-learning can often hinder students' progress.
> Anyone agree/disagree?
> 
> Meanwhile I'm going to go dust off my integrals -- they're still on my pencil-case!!
> 
> W


mmmmm..I was wondering about this one..this was considered cheating in my school days so just to be sure..I phoned two family members who are both teachers...and asked them....DO NOT write a formula on your pencil-case..it is viewed as cheating here ..and you will fail the exam..

te gato


----------



## Thomas1

Phryne said:
			
		

> I guess I didn't cheat as much as I thought!  Wow, what about comparing results during the test? I suppose it's not cheating either, since we are encouraging each other to think about the exercises.
> 
> Ufff, that feels so much better!!!!


 
 me too
Wordsmyth you bright my day


----------



## te gato

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> true point Karen you never know... unles *you* know
> 
> Regards,
> Thomas


Hey Tom;
Of course I know..I am the all knowing of all that useless information that teachers teach.. 
Yes..much of it is useless in normal life..and I think that the schools hire people to come up with all this useless information...mmm what useless information can we make the kids study today...
But that is still no excuse to cheat...
I'm not saying that it is right or wrong to cheat...I guess it is up to the persons conscience...
and I am also not saying that I never thought about it...
just never had the chance..that ruler .. 

te gato


----------



## Wordsmyth

Phryne said:
			
		

> [...] Wow, what about comparing results during the test? I suppose it's not cheating either, since we are encouraging each other to think about the exercises.
> 
> Ufff, that feels so much better!!!!


Well, Phryne, maybe I'm an educational radical (socio-political sense, nothing to do with integrals ), but I'd stick my neck out and say Yes, in principle. As long as each one has worked to get results, comparing can only be positive. This is OK if it's just a test to help you know how you're progressing. Problem comes if it's an exam to qualify you for greater things (i.e. to prove your progress to others) ... but then I think 'one-shot' exams often fail to do that anyway .  I'm a great believer in continual assessment -- after all, that's mostly what happens in the Big-World-Outside-School.

OK, teachers, pick up your AK47s and shoot me out of my dreamworld!  

W


----------



## te gato

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> OK, teachers, pick up your AK47s and shoot me out of my dreamworld!
> 
> W


Hey Wordsmyth...
Check out my post...Please..

http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=191075&postcount=30

You just got shot in Calgary.. 
te gato


----------



## Wordsmyth

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> [...] Generally I agree but if you get Mum or Dad or anyone else to do your home assignemnts because you're too lazy to do them yourself in my humble opinion is cheating  [...]
> 
> Regards,
> Thomas


Totally agree, Thomas, that's why I put "done sensibly" -- which of course puts a great responsibility on Mum & Dad: one of the burdens of parenthood!  



			
				Thomas1 said:
			
		

> [...] at the end of highschool during the final exam on maths we were allowed to use books with all necessary formulae in them whereas during tests/exams over all highschool we couldn't do so


... and I can just see all the maths teachers grinning with sadistic pleasure   

This time, AK47s issued only to Maths teachers in Poland and Calgary!! 

W


----------



## Wordsmyth

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Wordsmyth...
> Check out my post...Please..
> 
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=191075&postcount=30
> 
> You just got shot in Calgary..
> te gato


Hey te gato,  I'd already seen your post and was gonna answer (really, honestly, promise) after I'd finished making it worse in post #33. So after I quick trip to the Emergency Room to get treated for bullet wounds, here I am.

And what can I say? Had they just been teachers you phoned, I might have continued my crusade  , but, dear te gato, how could I possibly take up arms against your family.

And so to bed, to nurse my wounds ...   

W


----------



## te gato

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> Hey te gato, I'd already seen your post and was gonna answer (really, honestly, promise) after I'd finished making it worse in post #33. So after I quick trip to the Emergency Room to get treated for bullet wounds, here I am.
> 
> And what can I say? Had they just been teachers you phoned, I might have continued my crusade  , but, dear te gato, how could I possibly take up arms against your family.
> 
> And so to bed, to nurse my wounds ...
> 
> W


Hey Wordsmyth;
I am sorry I shot you..at least I did not aim to kill..and no, my dear Wordsmyth, please do not take up arms against my family, my family is armed.. 
Your teachers must love/have loved you...gonna..mmm wonder if that was from all the cheating you did in English class..or you just did not read the formula properly..written on your pencil-case....
Hope your wounds heal, or at least the nurse is nice..
te gato


----------



## Lancel0t

I did, on my minor subjects so that I could concentrate on my major subjects.  (For the record: I didn't have any intentions to cheat at all, its just that, my classmates were so generous that they would even share their answers ) (Am I cheating? Or I am just showing an acceptance of their offer) 

P.S.

It's better to cheat than to repeat.


----------



## lainyn

No, no it's NOT! (excuse my emotional outburst)

I am a firm believer in not cheating, no matter what the cost. I couldn't look at myself in the mirror if part of my university degree was a lie. If you accept answers offered to you by another student you are still cheating. If you are attending university, I am sure you are aware of the very strict policy against using anybody's words, ideas, thoughts, etc without proper citation. So if, on your test, you were to cite the person who helped you, and test the waters to see if the professor would call that cheating or not, go ahead! But I wouldn't risk my academic career for a few percentage points. 

~Natasha

PS: Why would you want a degree that you didn't EARN?


----------



## pinkpanter

Hi all,

Almost no one knows this story. 

I never managed to understand maths. I could not stand them and in high school after repeating a year one friend of mine helped me with my maths final exam and because of cheating I passed. 

I strongly disagree copying in the university. Even when in some exams our teachers go outside and we could copy I wouldn't because I feel I have to pass because of my knowledge but I am very glad I cheated in that maths exam. I would have not been able to go the university and I am a good student now.


----------



## gaer

I suppose this is why I chose teaching privately. It is impossible for anyone to cheat when learning to play an instrument.

Some of the things schools demand that students learn are so ridiculous that I think it encourages people to cheat in order to get stupid things out of the way in order to have TIME to pursue those things that are important to them.

Gaer


----------



## Wordsmyth

te gato said:
			
		

> [...] Your teachers must love/have loved you...gonna..mmm wonder if that was from all the cheating you did in English class..or you just did not read the formula properly..written on your pencil-case....
> Hope your wounds heal, or at least the nurse is nice..
> te gato


Hey te gato,

The irony is that I *didn't* (do all that cheating)!  . My pencil-case was actually as pure  and unsullied as Elizabeth the First's underwear -- just a small insignia to show it was mine, no formulae, no graffiti like "Essex slept here''-- just a bit grubby 'cos (like the aforementioned lady's accoutrements) it wasn't washed very often  .

I actually agree with Art & Lainyn and all the others in the "don't cheat - you're only cheating yourself" club. My protestations in my original post weren't about what had been / has been / was ... but what I think *ought to be*. But, I know: dreamworld -- we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto  . 

W  

PS. Fully healed -- miracle recovery -- you shoulda seen the nurse!!!


----------



## asm

The problem with not learning what it is suppose to be compulsory and cheating instead brings a new problem. You do not learn something (whatever the topic is) but you DO learn something else: by cheating you can succeed. Even worse, when you do not want to take the effort, you just cheat  (that easy) and you get the reward. 
If this skill, rewarded by cheating, stays only in your school realm, there is not a big deal, it's even "cool". However, if like some other skills we want to learn and keep from school for good, cheating stays with you after your academic years and your reward system might be compromised.

I confess, I cheated in school (mainly middle and high school, in elementary I did not enough about life, from college to now I do not cheat. The puhishment was not a big deal, but the worst part is that cheating was not only accepted but also socially encouraged .




			
				te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Thomas1;
> Yes in my school the teachers walked around with rulers and we were also threatened with the 'Strap'...Some students got 'wacked' some did not..that seemed to be enough to deter us from cheating...
> But the rules have changed so much over the years...since I wrote on the cave walls...
> I think maybe some strict rules should be brought back in..not the strap..or getting wacked by the ruler..
> but I do not think the cheating will ever stop..if a person wants to cheat..they will find a way no matter what..
> As for learning what you do not like..things that you will never ever use in your whole entire life...that is easy..'BECAUSE YOUR TEACHER SAID SO.'
> and who is to say that you will never use that useless information ever in your life...
> 
> te gato


----------



## Thomas1

Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> This time, AK47s issued only to Maths teachers in Poland and Calgary!!


 Can we issue them at  teachers of Polish as well, please??? 



			
				Lancel0t said:
			
		

> I did, on my minor subjects so that I could concentrate on my major subjects. P.S.
> 
> It's better to cheat than to repeat.


That is one of the reasons why I did it, and the next one-I didn't want to learn by heart the material dictated by my teacher of Polish, That was awful she dictated us lots of text, than expected us to learn it by heart and than wrote us a test, where we were supposed to put the dictated material with each detail, if you interpretated it with your own words you would get a worse grade, in my opinion you should be encouraged to creative thinking and possesing your own opinion, whereas in case of my Polish was all the way around, it's a shame but I must admit I hate Polish classes



			
				Wordsmyth said:
			
		

> I actually agree with Art & Lainyn and all the others in the "don't cheat - you're only cheating yourself" club. My protestations in my original post weren't about what had been / has been / was ... but what I think *ought to be*. But, I know: dreamworld -- we're not in Kansas anymore, Toto  .


What if you cheat not to be made dense????


----------



## gaer

asm said:
			
		

> The problem with not learning what it is suppose to be compulsory and cheating instead brings a new problem.


Unless 9/10s of the compulsory subjects turned out to be completely useless, which is what happened to me.

But I was not yet rebelling, so I didn't cheat. I just made poor grades in classes taught be poor teachers and hated school. And thought I was stupid.

Taking chemistry, English and biology in high school taught me to hate a great deal of English literature and everything to do with chemistry and biology. And it taught me that I'm a moron in foreign languages (which I'm NOT), because I made nearly failing grades in Spanish. And my horrendous experience with Spanish delayed my decision to try to learn a foreign language in a sane way for almost 20 years.

Later I learned that Shakespeare is fascinating, that the whole story of the periodical table was a magnificent mystery. I learned that "Great Expectations" is NOT the only book Dickens wrote. 

I was fortunate enough to survive the mind-killing, asinine high school requirements that mind-numbed me.

I loathed school until I got to college, and I learned to loathe that too when I got my share of "basic study" courses rammed down my throat after completing all my musical requirements. I spent my mid-term in a required English course rating the class I was in, which of course earned me a flunking grade, but at least I got the teacher to listen, though I think he was too thick to "get it". I tried to explain to him that if I had him in MY class, ramming Wagner, Mahler, Bartok and other "heavy composers" down HIS throat, I would succeed in making him hate this music (which I love).

I finally found out that I love learning many things when I got free of all this academic hogwash and finally had the freedom to learn in my own way and at my own pace.

I love the idea of schools. I just don't think most of them work very well. Some people cheat because they are dishonest and lazy and for no other reasons. But the system, as it is, encourages intelligent people to rebel against it, and sometimes cheating is the only way to "buy back enough time" to do what you want. And that is not allowed, because how DARE we be allowed to make up our minds what we need to learn—and don't.

Gaer


----------



## LV4-26

- Why did my son get an F at his History test ?
- Because he cheated
- How do you know that ?
- Well, the question was "what happened in 1066 ?". His neighbour wrote 'I don't know' and your son wrote 'nor do I'.


----------



## gaer

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> - Why did my son get an F at his History test ?
> - Because he cheated
> - How do you know that ?
> - Well, the question was "what happened in 1066 ?". His neighbour wrote 'I don't know' and your son wrote 'nor do I'.


Oh no! That's funny.

Did it really happen??? 

Gaer


----------



## Thomas1

gaer said:
			
		

> Oh no! That's funny.
> 
> Did it really happen???
> 
> Gaer


Funny I was about to ask the same question


----------



## te gato

I am not saying that what all schools teach..or 'make' the students learn is great..far from it..but..it does teach you rules..so that when you become a grown up..(sputter..cough)..you can choose to ignore those rules  as I have..

It is just a platform..a starting point..
trust me..having teachers in the family..they hate the curriculum as much as some of the students do..and I agree that creativity should be included..
I think that some schools are taking that into consideration now..at least here..and they are trying to curb the cheating while doing that..
but, sometimes that useless information comes in handy..for what I have not figured out yet..this brain of mine has so much useless information floating around in it..it is scary.. 

te gato


----------



## LV4-26

I'm not sure cheating can (physically) be used as a systematic method to pass all your tests and exams. Did anyone ever do that ? If so, of course, this person never learnt anything.
Isn't it the kind of thing that happen only three or four time in a (school) lifetime ?
It happened to me once or twice but it wasn't really premeditated. I'd just written my lessons on sheets of paper to learn them better and had taken them with me at school and.....guess what ? I couldn't resist.
I wouldn't say I don't respect somebody who cheats. I mean, we're all human, i.e. we're all weak. Of course I agree that it is stupid. But I don't consider cheating as violating a sacred rule (especially referring to young pupils). 
It's like all those things which I don't do but am not "scandalized" when someone does them. (I just think "ts, ts, so I can see you're no stronger than I am"  )
By the way, I'm a teacher. As a teacher I would have to punish a pupil who cheats because the others would think it unfair if I didn't. But it would be a really embarassing situation for me.



			
				gaer said:
			
		

> Did it really happen???


It didn't..........unfortunately


----------



## te gato

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> It happened to me once or twice but it wasn't really premeditated. I'd just written my lessons on sheets of paper to learn them better and had taken them with me at school and.....guess what ? I couldn't resist.
> By the way, I'm a teacher. As a teacher I would have to punish a pupil who cheats because the others would think it unfair if I didn't. But it would be a really embarassing situation for me.


Tsk..Tsk...Tsk....
I'm telling!!! 

te gato


----------



## Thomas1

gaer said:
			
		

> Unless 9/10s of the compulsory subjects turned out to be completely useless, which is what happened to me.
> 
> But I was not yet rebelling, so I didn't cheat. I just made poor grades in classes taught be poor teachers and hated school. And thought I was stupid.
> 
> Taking chemistry, English and biology in high school taught me to hate a great deal of English literature and everything to do with chemistry and biology. And it taught me that I'm a moron in foreign languages (which I'm NOT), because I made nearly failing grades in Spanish. And my horrendous experience with Spanish delayed my decision to try to learn a foreign language in a sane way for almost 20 years.


I rebelled and sometimes cheated, sometimes learned. Don't you think it is sometimes good to cheat so as not to waste your precious time (in Gaer's case it's 20 years )????? Wht's the use of learning sth that is completely useless for you or you are taught in a way that you finnaly don't know anything???? Repeating word by word the same text after your teacher teaches you nothing-it doesn't develope your creative thinking, it's like propaganda that gives only opinion of one side and wants you to accept only this version, without having your own opinion 



			
				gaer said:
			
		

> Later I learned that Shakespeare is fascinating, that the whole story of the periodical table was a magnificent mystery. I learned that "Great Expectations" is NOT the only book Dickens wrote.
> 
> I was fortunate enough to survive the mind-killing, asinine high school requirements that mind-numbed me.


I guess some people souldn't do teaching as they really cannot do it or some curricula should be changed if they teach to be dense, 'mind-numb', etc, in reality it is not teaching-it semms to be sthn completely reverse. It is good for those who can survive it and don't succumb but what about the rest? 




			
				gaer said:
			
		

> I love the idea of schools. I just don't think most of them work very well. Some people cheat because they are dishonest and lazy and for no other reasons. *But the system, as it is, encourages intelligent people to rebel against it, and sometimes cheating is the only way to "buy back enough time" to do what you want*. And that is not allowed, because how DARE we be allowed to make up our minds what we need to learn—and don't.


Very true words, I totally agree.

Regards,
Thomas


----------



## gaer

Thomas1 said:
			
		

> I rebelled and sometimes cheated, sometimes learned. Don't you think it is sometimes good to cheat so as not to waste your precious time (in Gaer's case it's 20 years )????? Wht's the use of learning sth that is completely useless for you or you are taught in a way that you finnaly don't know anything???? Repeating word by word the same text after your teacher teaches you nothing-it doesn't develope your creative thinking, it's like propaganda that gives only opinion of one side and wants you to accept only this version, without having your own opinion.


I didn't cheat, for reasons I already mentioned. I was young and honest and had not yet gotten really sick of the system. But I would NOT study things that were useless to me when they were also boring.

I knew I was going to major in music. 

Using chemistry as an example of something I have never needed, there has never been one time in my life that I have needed to know the abbreviations for the elements in the periodic table. I refused to learn them. I have always refused to learn anything by rote that makes no sense to me.

However, I have to admit that I was fascinated by the way people were able to predict what new elements would do before the were discovered. And to me that's the point.

The problem is that courses that SHOULD be "general courses" are not taught that way. In my opinion, the way to hook people on learning is to start with things that are fun, interesting, general. Some people are not going to go beyond that. Others will develop a deeper interest and will want to know more. I WAS interested in chemistry, just not the way it was taught. When I read books later, by fine minds writing for laymen, it was fascinating.

The idea that our school systems are sticking to is that by the time you are out of high school, if you don't know something, it's too late. So we must all learn the same things, no matter if we want to become artists, scientists, linguists or anything else. We create square boxes in school, then we force people into those boxes. If you happen to be square, great. If you're not, it's hell. I was fortunate enough to be able to pass classes by just listening, when I wasn't sleeping, and that gave me time to pursue what I needed to pursue. I was lucky.

Gaer


----------



## daisy

I remember being about 11 years old and we were doing a test at school about a topic we'd been studying, and the boy next to me was copying me. As I wasn't a cheat myself, this annoyed me, so I wrote the wrong answers on my test paper, waited until he had copied them, and then changed them back. It's so silly and so petty, but I had gone to the effort of learning the stuff, and he hadn't

Anyway, I'm off to class now - and be careful who you copy from!  

 

Daisy (I'm a nice girl really)


----------



## Fezman

In first, second and third years (for 13, 14, 15 year olds) i made a business built around people willing to cheat. It made me between 600 - 700 euros and at peak exam times i would have had over 200 clients from three secoindary schools...until i was caught. Those times i still look back on with a mischievous smile but now i'm in uni i frown upon cheaters, but can sympathise. I still find that most people will cheat if there is an open opportunity to do so.


----------



## Benjy

you couldn't pay me to cheat in an exam. and thats hilarious that you managed to make money off it. and i don't want to know how you were doing it either


----------



## Fezman

Its all about supply and demand man, i saw the supply and took it from there..funny thing about it was that in the same years, the transition years (16 year olds) always held mini- company contests i.e. who could make the most profit off their product etc. it always amused me that for three years running i beat the winners by between €50 and €300 euro on straight profit!!! (course i didn't have to pay tax either!!!!)


----------



## Lancel0t

About cheating, isn't it "the end justifies the means"? Some times we have to do something in order for us to achieve something. But It doesn't mean that we need to cheat in order to do that. It's just that there are some circumstances that we can't avoid doing that. (Of course I'm not encouraging anyone to cheat). In our life we can do anything, as in "ANYTHING" that we want in our life but we should not forget that we should be very responsible for the "CONSEQUENCES" of our actions.


----------



## Benjy

the end never justifies the means when it comes to cheating in my opinion. you get something that you don't deserve.


----------



## LV4-26

Benjy said:
			
		

> the end never justifies the means when it comes to cheating in my opinion. you get something that you don't deserve.


The end *never* justifies the means, whether for cheating or for anything else.
The end *is* the means. The end *is in* the means. 
But this would probably deserve another thread... 
Sorry, I couln't resist (once more! tsk tsk)


----------



## VenusEnvy

I am going to stray a big from the topic (or, where it has seemed to go). Speaking of cheating, it seems as though we have mainly been speaking about students' cheating. But, here, in the US, there is talk of teachers cheating as well.

With the enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, (NCLB), many researchers and educators are stating that one unanticipated problem that came along with the Act is the "stretching" or cheating of teachers and admins in public schools. With standardized testing being a direct measure of whether the school will receive funding, or not, teachers and educators are finding (unfair) ways to keep their test scores high.

Here are a couple of articles about it:
Legislation forces students to cheat or be left behind.
When tests' cheaters are the teachers.


----------



## lainyn

All I can say is, thank God this horror of legislation hasn't happened in Canada!


----------



## gaer

VenusEnvy said:
			
		

> I am going to stray a big from the topic (or, where it has seemed to go). Speaking of cheating, it seems as though we have mainly been speaking about students' cheating. But, here, in the US, there is talk of teachers cheating as well.
> 
> With the enactment of the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, (NCLB), many researchers and educators are stating that one unanticipated problem that came along with the Act is the "stretching" or cheating of teachers and admins in public schools. With standardized testing being a direct measure of whether the school will receive funding, or not, teachers and educators are finding (unfair) ways to keep their test scores high.
> 
> Here are a couple of articles about it:
> Legislation forces students to cheat or be left behind.
> When tests' cheaters are the teachers.


No child left behind=cover your tracks, teach to the tests, make things look good while everything goes straight to h---.

I won't say more. The present course of American education makes me furious. If you talk to teachers, you'll find out why it's all wrong, but NO one is listening to them.


----------



## Benjy

same thing happened in englanbd when the government started posting league tables based on gcse results.. not cheating as such but lowering of standards, finding the easiest exams, teaching taliored to the questions etc etc.

a great example is the fact that i left school knowing how to say hello and yes in french but somehow scored a B in the french gcse, which is supposed to show at least some degree of mastery in the language :/


----------



## cuchuflete

NCLB has served as a model of anti-ethical behavior instruction for students, and more directly for teachers and administrators.  This is all training to broaden the pool of candidates for Congress, who are masters of the unethical.  It is education, of a sort.


----------



## Ahlex

I think cheating is part of being a student I believe almost all students do really cheat during exam days in school.  

During my high school days cheating is really rampant in my class before exams my classmates would really work on some strategies and would plan thier own styles on cheatings so that teacher's would not caught them.  

I personally cheat during high school and I would not deny it, yes I do specially in Math exams because I really hated this subjects and even thought how I work on and studied the lessons nothing would store on my mind. That is why for me to pass I have to cheat.  by" hook or by crook " 

I remember my days in high school for us all to pass we really help each other during exams, "UNITED WE STAND DIVIDED WE FALL" that's the philosophy that we believe. I myself give answers during exams if I'm sure that I got the corrrect answers,I personally give it out to those who does not have.  anyways its just High Shool days and College will come I belived They will learn thier lesson or I should say we will be more responsible students we will find our ways to study and give our best shot to learn and answer all kind of exams that we will encounter...  
its really a matter of cheating or not to cheat in class, if you believe that you can make it with out cheating then don't do it,but if you beleive that it is really hard for you to pass the exams and the only solution is to cheat then go for it but see to it that you can handle consequences and next time be responsible enough and try to be more persistent in studying your lessons because cheating is not always good and too much of it will cause trouble...


----------



## rob.returns

Exactly, cheating is part of being a student. But make sure that when you cheat, U learn something(or in that matter EVERYTHING you copied.). I don't believe anyone who became a student who said they didn't cheat.

But when you graduate, It's different...You take responsibility and say goodbye to cheating.


----------



## desde aquel verano

Wow, it's really surprised me to read most of the posts in this thread; it seems like cheating in exams is kind of a normal thing for a lot of people.
I have to admit(?) that I never cheated in any exams when I was at school, mainly because of the following reasons...

1. How can you really cheat if you don't know beforehand what the questions are going to be?  
2. In this country (or at least when I was at school), if you get caught cheating then that's it, you've failed the exam and all the other exams too, no excuses.
3. Maybe it's just a cultural thing but... cheating is bad, right?

(4. I would probably be very bad at it anyway )


----------



## BasedowLives

in high school i use to frecuently, because those classes were worthless.

but now, in college, there's no point in cheating.  you're paying 15,000 a year to go there, why cheat?


----------



## gilbert0

Ojala yo podria copiar el tiempo atras en universidad para daria me punto A. Cuando fue en instituto de enseñanza secundaria fuimos el oportunidad para hacer lo pero cuando fue en universidad ya no puedo. Porque cuando tuvimos examen en universidad,  sentariamos 1 o 2 silla el uno del otro. Es obvio por el profesor para vernos que hacer durante el examen. Ademas nosortros cosas dejamos infrente de profesor y solamente pluma con nosotros. Si no estudian su leccion, You'll end up looking at the ceiling counting lizards and spider. Jejejejejeje, Por eso yo estudie bien cuando en universidad. Estoy orgullosa que acabo mi licenciatura. Espacialmente para mi padres.


----------



## Reili

It's too annoying when someone starts asking for help during an exam, so if you like cheating please just don't bother other people.


----------



## Merlin

During exam days, you can find almost every possible way to cheat. Mostly formulas are written very small in a piece of paper or the backboard of a calculator. Notes inserted on hankechief, on the walls and even on the floor. It's really crazy when some of my classmates do that. However, this lead to lazyness. They will rely on cheating just to pass the subject. Insted of doing reviews and reading notes, they will get themselves busy by making cheat sheets. By the time exams are conducted, eyes are always on the move. Looking left, looking right. Another thing that tolerate cheaters is the way my classmates give them answers during exams. If they saw you without any answer in your paper (basically just the name), they will give you all their answer. (Which for me is not a wise thing to do) I'm not saying that cheating is good. Cheating is still cheating. You can't learn by cheating. Although there are times that you have to. But not always. Too much of something is bad.
I'd be lying if I tell you that I haven't cheated in my life. I also cheat during exams. But Not to the extent that I will rely solely on cheating. I make it to a point that I'm prepared during exams. However. there are some cases wherein I don't know the answer. If I'm lucky enough, someone will help me answer it. These are my classmates motto during exam week. "Cheating is the generic name of passing" and "It's better to cheat than to repeat" I'm laughing my heart out loud as I write this post.  hahahahahaha...... I miss those guys! I miss my friends, my college basketball team and of course how can I forget the professors and our director who made school so cool.


----------



## Mitcheck

I really tried cheating however it didnt work. It made me stucked! My mind won't work anymore getting the right answer because I was afraid to be caught by our teacher. So what I did is to study my lessons and just enjoy my classmates do the thing. 
I can't blame them if they do cheat because of their determination to pass the subject. Basically, it was fun because each has an assigned chapter to study. And the worst thing our teacher assigned us in a different sitting arrangement where anyone had never thought of.  hhahahaahh. Sorry for those people who didn't study the whole chapters.  
What i can suggest is to study the lesson and concentrate on your exam than cheat.


----------



## wazz_up

No cheating in HIgh School...Cheating was rampant during college.


----------



## monay

im afraid to cheat but i do ask some question and answer from my seatmate. hehehehe..


----------



## meili

I abhor cheating. Why? Because I was caught once, in elementary school (what?), and my reputation was tarnished! (An honor pupil at that!).

Then why did I cheat? Simple. Because I do not enjoy memorizing all the provinces of all the different Regions of the Philippines. You can make me write essays, poems, stories, speak infront of people and make me compute integral calculus problems, but please - memorize impossible to memorize words, na-ah. 

I did it only once - and I got caught! This was on 3rd grade! (jeje, shhh.. talk about bad experience!).

I flunked Strength of Materials in college. One of my classmate knew it before I did and she screamed: 'That is what you get for not cheating!' Hah! And so what if I took the course again the following year - at least I understood (and came to love, eeewwwee) the subject more than she did.


----------



## rob.returns

Do you think that cheating in life, and cheating in school is basically thesame? Because if you do...then, everybody's GUILTY. Lot of hypocrites nowadays...

Dont get me wrong ok? I don't like cheating, but also i don't like hyporcrites. 

Opinions, anyone?


----------



## desde aquel verano

rob.returns said:
			
		

> Do you think that cheating in life, and cheating in school is basically thesame? Because if you do...then, everybody's GUILTY. Lot of hypocrites nowadays...
> 
> Dont get me wrong ok? I don't like cheating, but also i don't like hyporcrites. They are despicable...
> 
> Opinions, anyone?


Hi. I more or less agree. Cheating is cheating, however you look at it, and in some sense I think we all do it at some time or another (intentionally or otherwise).
At the same time, I don't think that that should stop us from trying to be honest, or from trying to seek a better way of achieving the result we desire.
In my opinion, it's impossible not to be a hypocrite, because life in itself is a kind of paradox and contradiction... you can really only ever try to do what you think is best at any given moment in time.


----------



## mari.kit

i think every student is guilty of cheating... its part of being in school . And yes, i do cheat when i was still a student.. {well, if the need arises! }


----------



## rob.returns

EXACTLY!...LIFE IS A PARADOX...I do think cheating is bad, but it's also unavoidable sometimes...like Mari.kit stated.


----------



## desde aquel verano

Hmm, life is a paradox and it's impossible to be morally consistent, yes... but that shouldn't be used as just a simple excuse to cheat for personal gain  (...in my own hypocritical opinion ).


----------



## rob.returns

Iam not talking about excuses...Im talking reality. Again, Im not for cheating..Tnx.jeje


----------



## Benjy

i would just like to say for the record: i have never cheated in any examination ever. i dont have much time for people that deplore cheating then make excuses for themselves. sorry..


----------



## desde aquel verano

rob.returns said:
			
		

> Iam not talking about excuses...Im talking reality. Again, Im not for cheating..Tnx.jeje


Me neither, but neither am I for hypocrisy.  
As for pompous moral puritans, let's leave that for another day...


----------



## Reili

Y si alguno por aquí ahora es maestr@ y en sus épocas de estudiante copiaba, ¿ahora deja copiar a sus alumnos?


----------



## rob.returns

Mi punto es..Todos los gentes luchar por perfeccion...pero no aviso que eso tipo de accion es bien. Y no hemos un gente que es perfecto.


----------



## Honeylhanz

Cheating is not good, yeah that's right. In general i can say that cheaters is not aiming for perfection probably they just want to pass. well, i'm not pro to cheating nor anti to cheating.
When i'm was a student i never cheat during the *written examination* however during our *esquise examination* i'm asking for some ideas to my BF. though i'm not cheating or copying what is drawn on his tracing paper but asking for an idea is also a cheating. 
there are reason why student cheat at school.......... and only cheaters knows that.


----------



## nahash

Hi there! 

Well, I would probably say that im not a cheater but im a liar if i'll say that im not a cheater...well everyone in school is a cheater,you guys knows that!there are many possibilities,reasons why students cheat at school,perfectly say that they want to pass the exams,quizzes, etc...provided that they won't be *caught *by their teachers...it's just a matter of  strategies/techniques on how to pass the exams.It's the reality.


----------

