# Hindi: श्रीदेवी



## fomez

Hi everyone

My textbook says that श्री is to be pronounced shri, yet every single time the actress श्रीदेवी is transliterated into English, her name is spelled "Sri Devi". What is the reason for this? I guess that it has to be because in her dialect of Hindi her name happened to be pronounced "Sri" rather than "Shri". Am I correct?

धन्यवाद!


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## Jashn

Sridevi was Tamilian, if I'm not mistaken. The spelling of her name reflects her mother tongue, I suppose.


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## littlepond

Sridevi's name is from Sanskrit/Tamil, not Hindi. In any case, the pron. of her name does remain "shriidevii". However, Indian languages (except Indian English) are not written in English's script, so people are free to transliterate it as they want: Shridevi, Sridevi, Shreedevi, etc. Once a person adopts a name, of course, being a proper noun, it cannot be changed to adapt to different transliteration fancies.


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## rituparnahoymoy

littlepond said:


> Sridevi's name is from Sanskrit/Tamil, not Hindi. In any case, the pron. of her name does remain "shriidevii". However, Indian languages (except Indian English) are not written in English's script, so people are free to transliterate it as they want: Shridevi, Sridevi, Shreedevi, etc. Once a person adopts a name, of course, being a proper noun, it cannot be changed to adapt to different transliteration fancies.



Sridevi's actual name was something else. It was a staged named as many other actors in India have.

Sri and Shri are both correct.

Sri Sri Ravishankar.


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## desi4life

fomez said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> My textbook says that श्री is to be pronounced shri, yet every single time the actress श्रीदेवी is transliterated into English, her name is spelled "Sri Devi". What is the reason for this? I guess that it has to be because in her dialect of Hindi her name happened to be pronounced "Sri" rather than "Shri". Am I correct?
> 
> धन्यवाद!



_srii _reflects the Tamil pronunciation of the Sanskrit word. It's explained in the following article: Sri - Wikipedia



> In Devanagari script for Sanskrit, Hindi and other languages, the word ⟨श्री⟩ is spelled with three conjoined letters: श (śa / sha) – र (ra) – ी (ī, long i). These are distinct from स (sa) and ि (short i). The strict transliteration is _śrī_ or _shrii_. (Other forms include Hunterian _zrI_.)
> 
> Some other Indian languages do not distinguish /ʃ/ (_sh_ in English) from /s/ in speech or for native words, but do retain distinct spelling for loanwords. For example, Sinhalese and Tamil respectively have: (ශ, ஶ், _śa_) versus (ස, ஸ், _sa_). In these cases, the spelling generally reflects Sanskrit _śrī_ ("shri"), though the pronunciation may be "sri", "seri", or "si".


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## littlepond

^ Indeed: hence the numerous towns and cities of Tamil Nadu such as Srirangam, Sriperumbudur, etc.


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## marrish

My mother called her Sridevii, not Shrii Devii. It is the name of the actress, not the Goddess Shri. 
(I am answering the thread because it is about Hindi). Tamil and other Indian languages might have divergent views).


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## desi4life

^ It's the same word, whether it's in reference to a deity, a person, or a place. Most people in northern India pronounce her name as _shriidevii._ You may have noticed this in the Hindi media coverage of her death. The same _shrii _pronunciation applies to the city Srinagar and the country Sri Lanka.


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## marrish

Thanks, I missed (yet) the Hindi media on this, but indeed, in Urdu, Srinagar, we do pronounce the said geographic names as srii nagar (or sirii nagar) and srii laNkaa (not shrii).

It is the same word but as a proper name, doesn't it remain bound by the pronunciation of the concerned person?


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## desi4life

marrish said:


> Thanks, I missed (yet) the Hindi media on this



The English media of northern India also pronounces her name as _shriidevii_.



> It is the same word but as a proper name, doesn't it remain bound by the pronunciation of the concerned person?



It would if she preferred the pronunciation _sriidevii_, but that doesn't seem to be the case because the Hindi spelling of her name is श्रीदेवी and not स्रीदेवी.


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## marrish

First point: thanks again. Second one: I never saw a Hindi spelling of श्री as स्री. The spelling seems to be invariable, doesn't it?, but the pronunciation may vary. In Urdu I did read 'srii', e.g. سری کرشن جی _srii krishn jii._


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## desi4life

marrish said:


> Second one: I never saw a Hindi spelling of श्री as स्री. The spelling seems to be invariable, doesn't it?, but the pronunciation may vary.



I know that सिरी is used as an alternative spelling and pronunciation by some people.


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## rituparnahoymoy

littlepond said:


> ^ Indeed: hence the numerous towns and cities of Tamil Nadu such as Srirangam, Sriperumbudur, etc.



In Northern India "hindi belt'' "sh" is pronounced. In other parts of India " sh'' is not pronounced. Thats is why North Indian speakers are best when it comes to pronouncing all the variants of " Sh". Even my friends who are from Bihar can't pronounce like the north Indian people.

People from south India can add their views.


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## littlepond

^ Not related to Bihar specifically, though many in Bihar pronounce "sh" as "s". But other people in north India, too, incl. in UP, pron. "sh" as "s". By the way, Bihar is considered to be in north India.


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> ^ Not related to Bihar specifically, though many in Bihar pronounce "sh" as "s". But other people in north India, too, incl. in UP, pron. "sh" as "s". By the way, Bihar is considered to be in north India.


Just as a side remark and endorsing @ marrish that certain words which are always written with a sh and pronounced with a sh by educated Hindi speakers are written and pronounced with an s in Urdu This has nothing to do with Urdu speakers' community background since Urdu speakers expect "shiin qaaf kaa durust honaa". I suspect this has to do with the words pronounced with an s in KhaRii Bolii and possibly have reverted to the sh in written Hindi and also in spoken Hindi, at least by some or most speakers.

Apart from Siriinagar and Sirii Lankaa, there are no doubt other such words written and pronounced with an s in Urdu that have a sh in Hindi. If I can think of any more, I shall try to add them to this post.


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## desi4life

^ Also des(h), sandes(h), etc. are almost invariably with s in Urdu, and although their s forms are common in Hindi, they are more frequently with sh.

A somewhat opposite situation occurs with some words of Persian/Arabic origin.  For example, Persian shalvaar is usually shalvaar in Urdu but usually salvaar in Hindi.


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## Qureshpor

Thank you @desi4life for coming to my assistance with the words des and sandes. Interestingly there is no deshii and pardeshii as far as I know.

Another word common to both languages is aas. Hindi has aashaa too which I would say is rare in Urdu.

Regarding shalvaar, I was under the impression that salvaar was used by Punjabis. It seems it's use is more widespread than I thought.

An opposite situation is with Urdu Shimla against Hindi Simla? Am I right?


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> An opposite situation is with Urdu Shimla against Hindi Simla? Am I right?



It's Shimla in Hindi, and I believe Simla is used in the local Pahāṛī language.


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> Interestingly there is no deshii and pardeshii as far as I know.



When people talk of food items, I have always used and heard "deshii": "gaajar", "ghee", etc.. To my knowledge, "desii", though popular earlier too, has become much more prevalent only in the recent times by way of its adoption into (Indian) English.
As for "pardeshii", yes, it isn't common in usage.


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## Qureshpor

littlepond said:


> When people talk of food items, I have always used and heard "deshii": "gaajar", "ghee", etc.. To my knowledge, "desii", though popular earlier too, has become much more prevalent only in the recent times by way of its adoption into (Indian) English.
> As for "pardeshii", yes, it isn't common in usage.


Thank you for this littlepond Jii. Logically I suppose when there is /desh/ in existence there ought to be /deshii/. Perhaps there is no /pardesh/ to warrant /paradeshii/?


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## desi4life

littlepond said:


> When people talk of food items, I have always used and heard "deshii": "gaajar", "ghee", etc.. To my knowledge, "desii", though popular earlier too, has become much more prevalent only in the recent times by way of its adoption into (Indian) English.



My experience has been the opposite. My family members and relatives in India have always said desii ghii, for example, not deshii ghii, and there are more than twice as many Google search results for देसी as compared to देशी.


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> Perhaps there is no /pardesh/ to warrant /paradeshii/?



pardesh and pardeshii exist too.


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> Perhaps there is no /pardesh/ to warrant /paradeshii/?



There must be of course both "pardesh" and "pardeshii" in existence, but, so far, I've not encountered their usage in spoken Hindi.


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## littlepond

desi4life said:


> My experience has been the opposite. My family members and relatives in India have always said desii ghii, for example, not deshii ghii, and there are more than twice as many Google search results for देसी as compared to देशी.



Interesting; so it seems that different milieux privilege different words.


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## Gope

Jashn said:


> Sridevi was Tamilian, if I'm not mistaken. The spelling of her name reflects her mother tongue, I suppose.


Sri


fomez said:


> Hi everyone
> 
> My textbook says that श्री is to be pronounced shri, yet every single time the actress श्रीदेवी is transliterated into English, her name is spelled "Sri Devi". What is the reason for this? I guess that it has to be because in her dialect of Hindi her name happened to be pronounced "Sri" rather than "Shri". Am I correct?
> 
> धन्यवाद!


Sridevi is a Sanskrit name, transliterated as ஶ்ரீதேவி in Tamil, and pronounced as sridevi (the first i is a long vowel, the second one short) in Tamil. Since Sridevi is a Tamil actress she herself would write her name as Sridevi and not Shridevi, which would jar a Tamil ear, in addition to being an incorrect rendering of pronunciation.


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## desi4life

Gope said:


> Sridevi is a Sanskrit name, transliterated as ஶ்ரீதேவி in Tamil, and pronounced as sridevi (the first i is a long vowel, the second one short) in Tamil. Since Sridevi is a Tamil actress she herself would write her name as Sridevi and not Shridevi, which would jar a Tamil ear, in addition to being an incorrect rendering of pronunciation.



Sridevi was not her Tamil given name. It's the stage name she adopted for films, so in northern India the pronunciation is typically "shriidevii" and in Tamil Nadu the pronunciation is presumably as you described. Her birth name was Shree Amma Yanger Ayyapan according to this article: Bollywood legend Sridevi dies at 54 | Reuters. However, it was probably Sree instead of Shree if the name was in accordance with Tamil norms.


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## Gope

desi4life said:


> Sridevi was not her Tamil given name. It's the stage name she adopted for films, so in northern India the pronunciation is typically "shriidevii" and in Tamil Nadu the pronunciation is presumably as you described. Her birth name was Shree Amma Yanger Ayyapan according to this article: Bollywood legend Sridevi dies at 54 | Reuters. However, it was probably Sree instead of Shree if the name was in accordance with Tamil norms.


Her birthname would not be Shree Amma Yanger Ayyappan but _*Sri*_ Amma Yanger Ayyappan, since that is how it would be pronounced by her parents/herself/in Tamil Nadu. Many Tamils are christened Sridevi too.


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## Qureshpor

A two minute video entitled "Must Follow The Constitution, Uniform Is A Must.." has Yogi Adityanath (CM, Uttar Pradesh) being interviewed. He used the words "des" and "hamesa". I presume the sh > s is also the case in Uttarakhand, his home state.


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## littlepond

Qureshpor said:


> A two minute video entitled "Must Follow The Constitution, Uniform Is A Must.." has Yogi Adityanath (CM, Uttar Pradesh) being interviewed. He used the words "des" and "hamesa". I presume the sh > s is also the case in Uttarakhand, his home state.



You probably mean his native state, as Adityanath's home state is Uttar Pradesh: he has been in the Gorakhpur (eastern UP) area since a long time, and it is that area that he also represents and votes from. His pronunciation doesn't give any pointers: eastern UP famously uses "s" for "sh," and to blend in, irrespective of "s" or "sh" from his Uttarakhand upbringing, he would of course use "s."


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