# a casa dels meus pares



## papillon

Hola,

...vam anar a viure a casa dels meus pares.
...ens vam instal.lar a casa d'uns amics romanesos.

My teacher says that in these examples, found in my Catalan textbook (Veus 1), the use of _de_ is incorrect, and that it should be
...vam instal.lar a casa els meus pares.
What are the rules governing this phenomenon?
Thanks


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## TraductoraPobleSec

papillon said:


> Hola,
> 
> ...vam anar a viure a casa dels meus pares.
> ...ens vam instal.lar a casa d'uns amics romanesos.
> 
> My teacher says that in these examples, found in my Catalan textbook (Veus 1), the use of _de_ is incorrect, and that it should be
> ...vam instal.lar a casa els meus pares.
> What are the rules governing this phenomenon?
> Thanks


 
To be honest with you, I had no idea of this use being wrong. However, it's true that in everyday speech, we would usually say, in the first case:

- _Vam anar a viure a *ca mons* pares_, where the prep is omitted.

As for "ens vam instal·lar _a casa d_'uns amics romanesos", this is exactly how I would say it.

Wait for other people to answer, though


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## Cecilio

Saying that the use of "de" is incorrect in these cases sounds completely absurd to me. Are you sure your teacher told you that? Maybe he/she was having a bad day (these things happen to teachers, I can tell you).


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## Keiria

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> As for "ens vam instal·lar _a casa d_'uns amics romanesos", this is exactly how I would say it.


 
I think I would say "ens vam instal·lar a casa uns amics romanesos". With this example I'm not totally sure, but I had always said "demà anirem a dinar a casa la iaia" never with a "de". Sorry, I don't know the rule.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Keiria said:


> I think I would say "ens vam instal·lar a casa uns amics romanesos". With this example I'm not totally sure, but I had always said "demà anirem a dinar a casa la iaia" never with a "de". Sorry, I don't know the rule.


 
And Keiria, just out of curiosity , wouldn't you say "a *ca* la iaia?"


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## Cecilio

There can be cases where the "de" is dropped, but saying that the use of "de" is "incorrect" in a phrase like "a casa d'uns amics romanesos" doesn't make sense at all.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Cecilio said:


> There can be cases where the "de" is dropped, but saying that the use of "de" is "incorrect" in a phrase like "a casa d'uns amics romanesos" doesn't make sense at all.


 
I agree with you, because it is precisely by means of the prep "de" that Catalan expresses belonging:

El cotxe *de*l meu germà.
El museu *de* la ciutat.
... and so on ...

In the case of homes, everyday language leads me to think that the dropping of the preposition only happens when the word *casa* is shortened and becomes *ca*.


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## Keiria

TraductoraPobleSec said:


> And Keiria, just out of curiosity , wouldn't you say "a *ca* la iaia?"


 
No, I say "casa la iaia". I know that a lot of people would say "ca la iaia", but I've always said "casa la iaia".

I didn't mean that "de" was incorrect, because I don't know it. I just wanted to say that I would never write "casa de la iaia". About the other example I am not sure. But I would _say_ it without the "de" also, but I don't know if I would write it.


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## Cecilio

In the GDLC (Gran Diccionari de la Llengua Catalana), available online, I have found the following:

_8 _ * a casa *(*de*) _ loc prep_ _Són a casa l'àvia. Són a casa de la Joana.

_It is clear that there are several possibilities, with or without "de".


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## betulina

I agree with all of you. I can't see why the preposition should be wrong. I tried to find some rule in books, but I couldn't find it. However, what TPS says about "de" expressing belongings should be absolutely applicable in this case and I'd said both are correct_ (EDIT - Cecilio's post above is much clearer, thanks)_



TraductoraPobleSec said:


> In the case of homes, everyday language leads me to think that the dropping of the preposition only happens when the word *casa* is shortened and becomes *ca*.



That's not my case, TPS. I hardly say _ca_, only occasionally, but I never use the preposition "de": _a casa l'àvia, a casa en Pere, a casa uns amics...
_
By the way, we talked about this in this thread.


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## TraductoraPobleSec

Cecilio said:


> In the GDLC (Gran Diccionari de la Llengua Catalana), available online, I have found the following:
> 
> _8 _*a casa *(*de*) _loc prep_ _Són a casa l'àvia. Són a casa de la Joana._
> 
> It is clear that there are several possibilities, with or without "de".


 
It'd be interesting to get hold of a scholar/research work dealing with the prep "de" in Catalan. I recently discovered (maybe a "late" discovery, I don't know ) that the textual marker "*besides"* in Catalan can be both "A banda" or "A part" and "A banda de" or "A part de". I had always thought that it was with "de". I take that with "casa" we're before a very similar case.

Have a great day all!


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## papillon

Great! This is the kind of thread that got me hooked on WR in the first place. Thanks a lot to everyone for helping me clarify (or further confuse  this issue.


betulina said:


> By the way, we talked about this in this thread.


 Yes, I came across this thread about a month ago when looking for the explanation of construction such as _can Josep_. I thought that ca(sa) la Maria may be a special case, and wasn't sure if the lack de was a general phenomenon.


Cecilio said:


> Are you sure your teacher told you that? Maybe he/she was having a bad day (these things happen to teachers, I can tell you).


He did say that, that's why we were all a bit surprised.

Thanks a lot, and let me know if you find any further information on when and when not to use de with _casa._


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