# a free city for free men



## Casquilho

Hello, I'd like your gentle help to assure myself of this translation of the phrase, "a free city for free men": _libera civitas liberis hominibus_. I chose _civitas_ instead of _urbs_, since _urbs_ apparently is more used with reference to Rome, is my reasoning right?


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## wtrmute

_Civitas_ is city more as a political concept, which happens to be what you seem to want here.  It is true that _urbs_ was used more of Rome, but that is in opposition to (typically) _oppidum_ for other places.  Otherwise, it looks fairly good to me, but I still await more experienced latinists than I.


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## Joca

Actually, you can make it even shorter: _libera civitas liberis._ For the adjective_ liber_ can be used as a noun (free man), especially in the plural.


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## Cagey

That should work, but the problem is that _liberi_ as a substantive often means 'children'.  You will need a noun to make it clear that you are talking about adults. 
_
'Hominibus liberis' _is inclusive, and includes women and children. 
_'Viris liberis'_ refers to men specifically.  

(Usually this adjective follows its noun.) 

I agree that _civitas_ is a good choice here.


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## Joca

I agree with you, Cagey, although I think the context would indicate that we are talking about free adults here. Anyway - and this is clearly beyond the original question - I wonder if such a city really exists or existed...


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## Scholiast

Salvete amici



Cagey said:


> (Usually this adjective follows its noun.)



Quite right. But the original English "a free city for free men" has a rhetorical edge which might be better represented with a chiastic point - _civitas libera liberis hominibus_. Maybe even better, _civitas libera liberis *civibus*.
_
Σ


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## Casquilho

Thank you all!


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