# pronunciation - /id/



## willturner

Hi, I'm trying to find a complete list of the english adjectives that we pronounced /id/ although their spelling doesn't end in d or t. I just find some as naked or ragged but I think they are almost ten.  Thanks.


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## sebastian-

_Baked, faked, quaked..._


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## Outsider

sebastian- said:


> _Baked, faked, quaked..._


The "e" is silent in those (bak't, fak't, quak't). Willturner would like a list of those where it's pronounced (nakid, raggid, etc.)


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## olcountrylawyer

willturner said:


> Hi, I'm trying to find a complete list of the english adjectives that we pronounced /id/ although their spelling doesn't end in d or t. I just find some as naked or ragged but I think they are almost ten.  Thanks.



_Learned _comes to mind, but I'm afraid I can't offer you a whole list. Sorry!

(By the way: pronounciation pronunciation, english , *E*nglish).

Regards,

OCL


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## willturner

Thanks to all of you. I won't stop searching the whole list.


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## mrgshelton

Hi, willturner...

Here are a few that might work for you (including your starter list):

naked … ragged … learned … wanted … frosted … gutted … hated … outdated … underrated … annotated … banded … crooked … wicked … blanketed … rugged … 

I tried to throw in "biomed" and "misled," but I don't think they work. [je je]


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## olcountrylawyer

mrgshelton said:


> Hi, willturner...
> 
> Here are a few that might work for you (including your starter list):
> 
> naked … ragged … learned … wanted … frosted … gutted … hated … outdated … underrated … annotated … banded … crooked … wicked … blanketed … rugged …
> 
> I tried to throw in "biomed" and "misled," but I don't think they work. [je je]



Most of those end in _d_ or _t_, so they don't count.


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## Outsider

No, they do count. What matters is how the "e" is pronounced.


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## olcountrylawyer

Outsider said:


> No, they do count. What matters is how the "e" is pronounced.



Dear Outsider,

The rule is that _-ed_ is prounounced /Id/ after _t_ and _d_. Will Turner asked for exceptions to this rule, so words like _wanted _and _hated _follow the rule and are therefore not germane to the discussion.

Do you understand?

Regards,

OCL


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## Outsider

olcountrylawyer said:


> The rule is that _-ed_ is prounounced /Id/ after _t_ and _d_.


The rule? What on Earth are you talking about? 

For Willturner: allomorphy in the English suffix _-ed_.


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## olcountrylawyer

Outsider said:


> The rule? What on Earth are you talking about?



This rule:

*
*"The ending -ed is pronounced as an extra syllable */id/, or as /t/ or /d/ *at the end of the simple past and past participle forms of verbs. The pronunciation depends on the final sound of the simple form of the verb..."

http://netgrammar.altec.org/Support/a101b4_101000.html


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## Outsider

Willturner is not asking for exceptions to _that_ rule. Read the first post in the thread again. He's asking for examples of participles where the allomorph of this suffix includes the vowel. In other words, he's asking for examples where the suffix _-ed_ is pronounced _neither_ as /d/ nor as /t/. Mrgshelton's examples certainly fill this condition!


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## olcountrylawyer

Outsider said:


> Willturner is not asking for exceptions to _that_ rule. Read the first post in the thread again. He's asking for examples of participles where the allomorph of this suffix includes the vowel. In other words, he's asking for examples where the suffix _-ed_ is pronounced _neither_ as /d/ nor as /t/. Mrgshelton's examples certainly fill this condition!



Your posts are usually insightful, Outsider, but I am afraid you are not wearing your thinking cap today. You need to reread his post.

Regards,

OCL


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## Outsider

Well, I don't see what else the following could mean:



willturner said:


> Hi, I'm trying to find a complete list of the english adjectives that *we pronounced /id/* although their spelling doesn't end in d or t. I just find some *as naked or ragged* but I think they are almost ten.


Anyway, I always let myself be goaded into explaining what other, less articulate people meant to say. Let *Willturner* explain himself better, if he so wishes.


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## sound shift

"Blessed", when used as an adjective (but not when used as a verb).


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## Loob

Hi willturner

This site gives nine 

Loob


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## virgilio

Re "naked", I assume that it is past participle derived from an obsolete verb "to nake", which I assume once meant "to divest of covering".
That would fit in with the word "snake" - the initial "s" - like many Italian initial "s"es - being a remnant of an original adverbial prefix "ex" or "dis".
 So, if my theory is right there would once have been an English verb "to disnake" or "to exnake", becoming later "to snake" (all three meaning "to divest of covering").
   The alleged habit of snakes to divest themselves of unwanted skins seems to fit in with this. Maybe "naked" was originally "snaked".
  In modern English, of course, the metaphor has altered and "to snake" is used with the sense of "to coil" or "to twist", sometimes used of roads traversing difficult terrain.
 Can anyone confirm this theory or expose it as false? Thanks.

Best wishes
Virgilio


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## mrgshelton

Loob said:


> Hi willturner
> 
> This site gives nine
> 
> Loob


 

Hi, all...

I see how much of my list missed the mark, but it looks like Loob's link fills the bill and responds to the task at hand.

I'd add one more, perhaps:  *crutched*.  But then, that depends on how the *Brits* in the crowd would pronounce *Crutched Friars Road* (I noticed it once about 15 years ago on the nameplate of a cargo container that was being hauled out of the Port of Long Beach and have always imagined it to be pronounced _crutch-id_, but really haven't a clue.  That one truck, by the way, is the only place I've ever seen this adjectival form of *crutch*.


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## willturner

Hi everybody,
First of all, I'm very grateful for your help.
I should say olcountrylawyer is quite right because I'm not searching for the rule.
I'm sorry I haven't explained myself better before.


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## Loob

Hi willturner and everybody



virgilio said:


> Maybe "naked" was originally "snaked"


Virgilio, your post was very entertaining. Sadly though, the OED has the etymology of "naked" going back all the way to indo-european, with not a hint of anything serpentine...



mrgshelton said:


> I'd add one more, perhaps: *crutched*. But then, that depends on how the *Brits* in the crowd would pronounce *Crutched Friars Road*


 
The OED confirms that crutched (which I'd never heard of!) is pronounced with an '-id' ending, defining it as follows: 
Having or bearing a cross. *Crutched* or *Crouched* (also _Crossed_) *Friars* (_Fratres cruciferi_ or _Sanctæ Crucis_): a minor order of friars so called from their bearing or wearing a cross.

I don't recommend willturner to include it in his list unless he likes very abstruse words!

Loob


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## olcountrylawyer

Loob said:


> I don't recommend willturner to include it in his list unless he likes very abstruse words!



That's an interesting sentence, Loob. In the English I speak, "recommend" is never followed by a full infinitive. Is that common in BE? I would use subject+recommend+that+subject+verb (subjunctive mood):
_
I don't recommend that Will Turner include it in his list... 

_It might be worth starting another thread on this. What do you think?

Regards,

OCL


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## Loob

Hi OCL

Glad to have been interesting!  There are quite a few existing threads on "recommend", including this one for example.

Loob


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## olcountrylawyer

Thank you for the link.


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## Loob

Vergilio, are we talking about the same Oxford English Dictionary? The (online) version I'm referring to has "responsable" as an 'obsolete, rare' alternative to "responsible"....

I'll shut up now - we're straying too far from the topic.

Loob


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## Jazztronik

mrgshelton said:


> Hi, willturner...
> 
> Here are a few that might work for you (including your starter list):
> 
> naked … ragged … *learned *… wanted … frosted … gutted … hated … outdated … underrated … annotated … banded … crooked … wicked … blanketed … rugged …
> 
> I tried to throw in "biomed" and "misled," but I don't think they work. [je je]



Learned!!?? I always thought it was *learnt*. ??


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## olcountrylawyer

Jazztronik said:


> Learned!!?? I always thought it was *learnt*. ??



It can be, but not when it is an adjective meaning  "having or showing profound knowledge". In that case, it is always _learned _(pronounced   /'lernid/).

OCL


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## virgilio

forum members,
                    I wish to withdraw any criticisms  I may have made earlier of the OED in the question of mis-spelling of the adjective "responsable". These were due, as I am now aware , to a mis-reading of the pertinent entries in that dictionary. Accordingly I withdraw those criticisms unreservedly and reaffirm my opinion that the OED is an excellent dictionary.
Thank you.
With best wishes
Virgilio


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## Jazztronik

olcountrylawyer said:


> It can be, but not when it is an adjective meaning  "having or showing profound knowledge". In that case, it is always _learned _(pronounced   /'lernid/).
> 
> OCL



So, what you mean is something like this?:

Show me everything you have *learnt*.

Show me how *learned* you are (learned = wise?)

Now that you mentioned it, there are more case like this, aren't they?


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## olcountrylawyer

Jazztronik said:


> So, what you mean is something like this?:
> 
> Show me everything you have *learnt*. (or _learned_)
> 
> Show me how *learned* you are (learned = wise?)
> 
> Now that you mentioned it, there are more case like this, aren't they?



The verb can either be irregular (learn/learnt/learnt) or regular (learn/learned/learned). The former is more common in British English, while the latter is more common in American English. 

Yes, I'm sure there are more cases like this, although none come to mind at the moment. Perhaps some of the others can help us out.

Regards,

OCL


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## Loob

Jazztronik said:


> So, what you mean is something like this?:
> 
> Show me everything you have *learnt*.
> 
> Show me how *learned* you are (learned = wise?)
> 
> Now that you mentioned it, there are more case like this, aren't they?


 
Well, if we look at the nine exceptional '-id' adjectives quoted in the link I gave earlier in this thread (exceptional because the 'id' sound does not follow 't' or 'd'), the following are examples of adjectives pronounced differently from past participles:

*aged*: "I am aged [id]".  Compare: "I have aged [d]" 
*blessed* (NB blessed [id] has, today, only a negative meaning!): "That blessed [id] boy has been naughty again".  Compare: "I am blessed" [t] (I have many blessings); "someone has blessed me [t]" 
*dogged*: "he is very dogged [id] = he is very determined. Compare "he dogged [d] my footsteps" = he followed close behind me like a dog.
*learned:* we've already talked about
*ragged: *his clothes are very ragged [id].  "To rag" is not a very common verb, but it can mean 'to make fun of'.  So the adjective 'ragged' [id] could contrast with the past/participle 'ragged' [d].

The other 4 exceptions are not related to verbs (though someone might make a case for wicked?)

Loob


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## willturner

Thank you very much


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## trevorb

Loob said:


> The other 4 exceptions are not related to verbs (though someone might make a case for wicked?)
> 
> Loob


 
Hi, Loob. That site's a good find!

Before looking it up, I'd certainly never heard of the verb 'to wick'. However, as you imply, it does exist.

Also, slightly more common, though possibly still a little poetic/archaic: to crook = to bend.

Can't think of anything for the others though.

Trevor.


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