# Pronunciation of "Joan"



## lenguadulce

Hello!
  I posted this message earlier, but I phrased my question incorrectly... So, here it is again, this time correct!

How do you say "Joan" in Catalan?  Is the "oa" pronounced as one sound?  Are the "o" and "a" separate sounds?  Thanks!

  Ya he puesto este mensaje, pero lo escribió incorrectamente. aqui está otra vez, escrito correctamente.
  Come se pronuncia "Joan" en Catalan?  El "oa" hace un sonido?  O hay dos sonidos distintos, el "o" y el "a"?

Muchas gracias!
Evan


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## Agró

lenguadulce said:


> Hello!
> I posted this message earlier, but I phrased my question incorrectly... So, here it is again, this time correct!
> 
> How do you say "Joan" in Catalan?  Is the "oa" pronounced as one sound?  Are the "o" and "a" separate sounds?  Thanks!
> 
> Ya he puesto este mensaje, pero lo escribió incorrectamente. aqui está otra vez, escrito correctamente.
> Come se pronuncia "Joan" en Catalan?  El "oa" hace un sonido?  O hay dos sonidos distintos, el "o" y el "a"?
> 
> Muchas gracias!
> Evan



Esta es la pronunciación de Joan en las distintas variedades de catalán. En todos los casos o y a son sonidos independientes:
Fon.: ʒuán (or., bal.); ʤuán (occ., Cast., Al.); ʧuán (Val.).
or.: oriental
bal.: balear
occ.: occidental
Cast.: Castellón
Al.: Alicante
Val.: Valencia


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## lenguadulce

Muchas gracias.  Esta informacion es perfecta y me ayuda bien.
dulce


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## aprenent

Hola lenguadulce,
en cualquiera de las formas dialectales del catalán, el nombre Joan se pronuncia con las vocales "o" y "a" como dos sonidos separados, muy parecidos a los usados en Juan en español (quizás en catalán la "a" tónica suena un poco más abierta que la "a" en español, pero la diferencia no siempre es apreciable)

Saludos.


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## Cracker Jack

Hello lenguadulce. Joan in Catalan is not pronounced as that of Joan of Arc/Collins/Crawford but separately JO - AN.  Take note that JO is pronounced as Jew and not Jo or Jow or Joe. In Catalan the o that does not bear an accent is pronounced as the AE ''ew ''  And AN is pronounced as the English ''Un'' as in un-cool, un-derstanding, un-dergo, etc.

In short, AE pronunciation of Jew-Un. Hope this helps.


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## LoveVanPersie

Agró said:


> Fon.: ʒuán (or., bal.); ʤuán (occ., Cast., Al.); ʧuán (Val.).


Is the unstressed _o_ here pronounced /u/ even in western dialects where unstressed _o_ isn't reduced to /u/? Why?

And what about the pronunciation in Mallorca?


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## Xiscomx

LoveVanPersie said:


> Is the unstressed _o_ here pronounced /u/ even in western dialects where unstressed _o_ isn't reduced to /u/? Why?
> 
> And what about the pronunciation in Mallorca?


Like @Agró said.
In Mallorca, Joan and Josep are also written Juan, Jusep [ʒuán, ʒuzέp].

(DCVB)
JUAN. Nom propi: V. Joan.
JUSEP. Nom propí: V. Josep.


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> Is the unstressed _o_ here pronounced /u/ even in western dialects where unstressed _o_ isn't reduced to /u/? Why?
> 
> And what about the pronunciation in Mallorca?



Yes, the O in "Joan" and "Josep" is pronounced as a U in all Catalan dialects, even in Western Catalan and in Majorcan.

There are also some cases of unstressed O pronounced as a U in some Western/Majorcan Catalan: mun pare (written mOn pare), cusir (written cOsir), surtir (written sOrtir)... But the recommended pronunciation in those dialects is to pronounce unstressed O as a U ONLY in Joan and Josep.


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## Elxenc

Bon dia. Els valencians pronunciem/convertim en "u" moltes més "o" de les que, a voltes, es reconeixen a les gramàtiques o manuals. Sempre s'ha pronunciat Juan, Jusep, Juaquim. Respecte a certs verbs, he de reconéixer de bestreta, que hi ha certa vacil·lació: cullir/collir, cusir/cosir, bullir/bollir, etc., i que afecta els participis. Aquesta forma de pronunciació podriem dir que és general a tot el valencià; però també es produeix amb alguns possessius, sobre tot pel Migjorn valencià (les comarques del Vinalopó), i trobe que aplega fins la línia Biar-Bussot: mun pare per mon pare; mun germà per mon germà. Supose que hi hauran més paraules en les que tanquem la pronunciació de les "o" en "u" però en caldria fer una recerca exhaustiva.


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## Circunflejo

Everyone here seems to agree that the o of Joan is always pronounced like an u but I'd say I've heard it pronounced like an o somewhere but I don't recall where. If I recalled it, I would post it.



LoveVanPersie said:


> And what about the pronunciation in Mallorca?


The o of Joan is pronounced like an u. In fact, as a Castilian speaker, the clearest u sound for Joan that I've ever heard was the one I heard to native Catalan speaker from Majorca.


tenienteramires said:


> There are also some cases of unstressed O pronounced as a U in some Western/Majorcan Catalan: mun pare (written mOn pare), cusir (written cOsir), surtir (written sOrtir)...


 It's curious. I don't recall hearing mun pare (always mon pare) anywhere but I don't recall either hearing sortir anywhere (always surtir).


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## Xiscomx

Circunflejo said:


> It's curious. I don't recall hearing mun pare (always mon pare) anywhere but I don't recall either hearing sortir anywhere (always surtir).


En Mallorca solo se oye _mun pare _[_mon pare_] y _mu mare _[_ma mare_], pero al usarlo en diminutivo vuelve a entrar el _mon _[_mon paret meu_] y el _ma _sigue invariable [_mu mareta meva_].


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## LoveVanPersie

Xiscomx said:


> Like @Agró said.
> In Mallorca, Joan and Josep are also written Juan, Jusep [ʒuán, ʒuzέp].
> 
> (DCVB)
> JUAN. Nom propi: V. Joan.
> JUSEP. Nom propí: V. Josep.


When the spellings are _Joan_ and _Josep_, are they still pronounced with /u/?




tenienteramires said:


> Yes, the O in "Joan" and "Josep" is pronounced as a U in all Catalan dialects, even in Western Catalan and in Majorcan.


Wiktionary transcribes "nord-occidental /d͡ʒoˈzɛp/". Is it wrong?


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## LoveVanPersie

Circunflejo said:


> Everyone here seems to agree that the o of Joan is always pronounced like an u but I'd say I've heard it pronounced like an o somewhere but I don't recall where. If I recalled it, I would post it.


I've watched many videos about Joan Sastre on IB3 and in some videos the pronunciation sounded /o/ to me.


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## Circunflejo

Xiscomx said:


> En Mallorca solo se oye _mun pare _[_mon pare_] y _mu mare _[_ma mare_], pero al usarlo en diminutivo vuelve a entrar el _mon _[_mon paret meu_] y el _ma _sigue invariable [_mu mareta meva_].


Gracias por la información. El mallorquín lo he descubierto recientemente y aún estoy familiarizándome con él.


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## Xiscomx

Se deletreará según la forma que lo use o escriba cada uno. Cuando alguien nos presenta a una persona llamada Joan, se suele preguntar coloquialmente:
—Es Juan con u o Joan con o? 

Sin embargo esto no ocurre con los Joseps, puesto que a todos los llamamos Pep, solo si son mallorquines:

—Mira, aquest és en Pep, el millor amic que tenc i aquesta és sa meva cosina Pepa.


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## tenienteramires

Circunflejo said:


> It's curious. I don't recall hearing mun pare (always mon pare) anywhere but I don't recall either hearing sortir anywhere (always surtir).


Yes in the names Joan and Josep, the O is pronounced always as a U, but in any other word, it depends on the dialect. In my town we say "surtir", "mun pare", "cullir"... but in the town next to mine, they say "sortir", "mon pare", "collir"...


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## tenienteramires

LoveVanPersie said:


> Wiktionary transcribes "nord-occidental /d͡ʒoˈzɛp/". Is it wrong?



It is, actually [dʒuˈzɛp] in Western Catalan, [ʒuˈzɛp] in Majorcan (and in Eastern Catalan) and [tʃuˈsɛp] (which is considered a non-standard pronunciation) in Apitxat and in Ribagorçan Catalan.

There are some Western/Majorcan speakers who pronounce it with an actual O, but that's a hypercorrection, because they think that if it's written with an O it must be pronounced thus.


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## Elxenc

LoveVanPersie said:


> When the spellings are _Joan_ and _Josep_, are they still pronounced with /u/?



Quan en anglès, per exemple, lletregem, diem el nom de cada lletra i deprés  fen la pronúncia habitual que corresponga al dialecte al que ens dirigim. Penseu com s'escriu/lletreja "water", i com es pronuncia al Regne Unit o als Estats Units. Perquè hauria de ser diferent en català.


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