# una bottiglia su due



## Denise89

ciao a tutti!

dovrei tradurre questa frase:

*Spesso quasi una bottiglia su due di olio di olive, viene presentata ai consumatori come olio italiano *

ho un problema per la parte _"una bottiglia su due"_.

come traduzione avevo pensato:

*Often, almost a bottle out of two of olive oil is presented to consumers as Italian oil.*

E' corretto ?


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## Blackman

A me piace, ma forse parlerei di _*one* bottle out of two. _Wait for natives.


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## Denise89

Blackman said:


> A me piace, ma forse parlerei di _*one* bottle out of two. _Wait for natives.



Hai ragione!! 
Grazie mille per il consiglio!


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## Blackman

No need to say oil twice.

..._to consumers as Italian._


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## Denise89

Blackman said:


> No need to say oil twice.
> 
> ..._to consumers as Italian._



Grazie ancora


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## sound shift

"Una bottiglia su due": "Every second bottle"


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## sorry66

or 'every other bottle'.


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## Denise89

thanks a lot!! 

I didn't think about this solution and it is perfect! 



sound shift said:


> "Una bottiglia su due": "Every second bottle"





sorry66 said:


> or 'every other bottle'.


thank you very much!!!


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## bridgetjones

sound shift said:


> "Una bottiglia su due": "Every second bottle"


Is it correct to put "almost" after "often" in the sentence?


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## Archilochus

almost one bottle in two


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## sorry66

Frequently, /It happens quite often that nearly every other bottle of olive oil is/gets passed off (to customers) as Italian.


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## london calling

.....gets passed off as Italian.


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## TrentinaNE

How technically accurate does the statement need to be?  "every other bottle" and "every second bottle" could be interpreted as one bottle is represented as Italian, and the very next bottle is not.  I think your original source is trying to say that _almost 50% of olive oil bottles_ are represented as being Italian.  

And why "gets passed off as"?  This suggests that the representation is not true, but that is not clear from the single sentence in Italian that the OP provided.  Knowing more of the context would be helpful.


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## sorry66

TrentinaNE said:


> And why "gets passed off as"? This suggests that the representation is not true, but that is not clear from the single sentence in Italian that the OP provided.


It seems fair to assume it.


TrentinaNE said:


> How technically accurate does the statement need to be?


I agree it doesn't need to be but the OP wants it. I'd say something like 'Lots of bottles are often...'


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## london calling

TrentinaNE said:


> And why "gets passed off as"?  This suggests that the representation is not true, but that is not clear from the single sentence in Italian that the OP provided.  Knowing more of the context would be helpful.


It's clear to me. This is a well-known scam.

Mind you, I suppose living in Italy and knowing a local olive oil producer  (he's told me horrific stories about how some big companies adulterate oilve oil, apart from buying cheaper olives abroad and then passing the oil off as 'Italian') makes a difference I'm lucky, as we have our own olive grove, so I know where our oil comes from.

You're right though. Had I not known all this it would probably not have been immediately obvious from the context we have been given.


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## TrentinaNE

I attended an olive oil tasting by Accademia Barilla here in Chicago last year, so I'm also familiar with the problem.    But working in a legal environment, I'm very sensitive to nuances of language.  It seemed that the interpretation was bringing a certain mindset to what seemed like more neutral language, but perhaps this an instance of "coded language" in Italian, i.e., everyone knows that "viene presentata come" means "is passed off as" is this context?


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## Blackman

TrentinaNE said:


> I attended an olive oil tasting by Accademia Barilla here in Chicago last year, so I'm also familiar with the problem.    But working in a legal environment, I'm very sensitive to nuances of language.  It seemed that the interpretation was bringing a certain mindset to what seemed like more neutral language, but perhaps this an instance of "coded language" in Italian, i.e., everyone knows that "viene presentata come" means "is passed off as" is this context?


Si, direi che in questo specifico contesto equivale a _spacciata come olio d'oliva _e non si presta a fraintendimenti per un madrelingua.


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## King Crimson

Sono d'accordo, è solo un modo più elegante di esprimere il concetto. D'acchito aggiungerei che anche in altri contesti 'viene presentato come' sottintende come minimo un elemento di dubbio sul fatto che ciò che viene presentato corrisponda effettivamente a quello che si dichiara.


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## Pietruzzo

TrentinaNE said:


> And why "gets passed off as"? This suggests that the representation is not true,


Actually the representation is only partly untrue. Many of those bottles actually contain Italian olive oil. If "pass off as" means that it's all fake Italian oil  then it isn't correct


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## sorry66

We're only talking about the fake ones here.


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## Pietruzzo

sorry66 said:


> We're only talking about the fake ones here.


Sorry. I thought you were talking about the sentence in post#1.


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## sorry66

We are talking about the sentence in post # 1. If the bottle contain mixed oils then it's fake Italian oil.
Here is a very relevant article from a few days ago which uses 'pass off':
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...g-off-ordinary-olive-oil-as-extra-virgin.html


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## Pietruzzo

sorry66 said:


> We are talking about the sentence in post # 1. If the bottle contain mixed oils then it's fake Italian oil.





Denise89 said:


> Spesso quasi una bottiglia su due di olio di olive, viene presentata ai consumatori come olio italiano


As far as I can tell, this means that half olive oil bottles are labelled  as Italian  and some of them are fake. "Pass off" means that 50% bottles are fake. O no?


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## ohbice

A parte l'inglese, quello che a me suona suonato è lo "spesso quasi": direi " Quasi una bottiglia su due viene spacciata...", oppure "Spesso l'olio in bottiglia viene spacciato..." o no?


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## sorry66

Pietruzzo said:


> As far as I can tell, this means that half olive oil bottles are labelled as Italian and some of them are fake. "Pass off" means that 50% bottles are fake. O no?


Yes, half the bottles. 
We do not know in what way  they are fake, though: they may contain some Italian oil; they have to contain 100 percent Italian oil to be genuine.
'pass off' -
*2. * To present (one's self) as other than what one is: _he tried to pass himself off as a banker_.
In this case it is something else which is being 'passed off' as another thing.

I think 'spacciato' may be right.


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## london calling

sorry66 said:


> I think 'spacciato' may be right.


'Spacciato' is right, as  BM and KC say above:



Blackman said:


> Si, direi che in questo specifico contesto equivale a _spacciata come olio d'oliva _e non si presta a fraintendimenti per un madrelingua.





King Crimson said:


> Sono d'accordo, è solo un modo più elegante di esprimere il concetto. D'acchito aggiungerei che anche in altri contesti 'viene presentato come' sottintende come minimo un elemento di dubbio sul fatto che ciò che viene presentato corrisponda effettivamente a quello che si dichiara.


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## Pietruzzo

london calling said:


> 'Spacciato' is right, as BM and KC say above:


I thought we needed the English for "presentato", not the Italian for "passed off".


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## london calling

Pietruzzo said:


> I thought we needed the English for "presentato", not the Italian for "passed off".


We do. It's 'passed off'. I was replying to sorry.


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## Pietruzzo

london calling said:


> We do. It's 'passed off'. I was replying to sorry.


I don't agree that spacciato is synonymous to presentato.  Only for those who'd like to know why, please read posts 15-19.


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## Blackman

Io ho anche scritto "in questo specifico contesto" però, e con questo è stato d'accordo anche KC.


Pietruzzo said:


> I don't agree that spacciato is synonymous to presentato.  Only for those who'd like to know why, please read posts 15-19.


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## Pietruzzo

Blackman said:


> Io ho anche scritto "in questo specifico contesto" però, e con questo è stato d'accordo anche KC.


Parlo proprio del contesto.  Metà dell'olio viene presentato come italiano; parte di questa metà lo è veramente e parte no. Non è tutto "spacciato/passed off". Comunque volevo solo precisare che non sono d'accordo; non insisto.


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## lluvia de otoño

ohbice said:


> A parte l'inglese, quello che a me suona suonato è lo "spesso quasi": direi " Quasi una bottiglia su due viene spacciata...", oppure "Spesso l'olio in bottiglia viene spacciato..." o no?



sono d'accordo, io eviterei quel "spesso quasi uno su due", quasi uno su due indica già con quale frequenza avviene la cosa, e rende la traduzione ancora più complicata


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## Blackman

Pietruzzo said:


> Parlo proprio del contesto.  Metà dell'olio viene presentato come italiano; parte di questa metà lo è veramente e parte no. Non è tutto "spacciato/passed off". Comunque volevo solo precisare che non sono d'accordo; non insisto.



Non giudico la liceità della frase o il suo senso, ammesso che ne abbia uno, leggo quello c'è scritto: e qui c'è scritto che una metà, non entrambe, viene presentata come olio italiano. Sono d'accordo con KC che _presentare_, usato correttamente nel giusto contesto, sottintende una discrepanza di misura variabile con ciò che realmente è.

Figuriamoci una scena: 100 produttori italiani sono invitati alla kermesse promozionale per la nuova annata. 50 sono onesti e 50 no. Il moderatore della serata si ritroverà a _presentare_ al pubblico come olio italiano tutte le 100 bottiglie, ma la metà la sta, seppur inconsapevolmente, _spacciando._


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## sorry66

The OP doesn't make much sense or rather it's incomplete.
One bottle in two is presented as /gets passed off as Italian - whether the oil is Italian or not. 
This aslo implies that we don't know what gets said about the other half. I assume they are sold as Italian too because they are Italian - no funny games there - they're the genuine article.
Following on from what Blackman has said, the sentence should be something like: 'All the bottles are passed off as Italian even though only one in two are'


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