# meaning of 'dish' in Asian restaurants



## Johnny519

I’m wondering if dish can be understood as the seasoned food served in the Asian restaurants(Chinese, Thai, Japanese,Korean,etc) without staple(rice,noodles). Habitually, in China, most people eat rice or flour-made food, but we don’t eat these staples alone, several dishes would normally served, homemade or at diner.

Here I don’t specify the name of food, such as scrabbled egg, fried pork with chili pepper.


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## Thomas Tompion

I'm not very clear what you are asking, Johnny.

A dish can be either the plate on which food may be served, or the food which is served on that plate - when used in this sense, a dish often refers to the recipe, the combination of ingredients and cooking methods.

Something simple like a boiled egg wouldn't often be called a dish.


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## Johnny519

If you have ever been to a Chinese restaurant, you would know me better. 

I know dish can be regarded as the utensil or the food, we would not just have boiled egg while having rice, very odd.


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## Thomas Tompion

Johnny519 said:


> If you have ever been to a Chinese restaurant, you would know me better.


This suggests that one might meet you in all Chinese restaurants, which is not what you meant, I suspect.

I have been to a Chinese restaurant - many times, so meeting that condition hasn't helped me understand you.

If you were to explain your question simply and clearly, we might find it easier to help you, Johnny.

I don't think we'd normally call a plate of rice a dish, but any of the recipes for meat, fish, or vegetables which accompany the staple would be so called.  There are also 'side dishes' of course.


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## Johnny519

OK, do you call scrabbled egg a dish? You don’t eat this alone, it goes with rice.


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## Johnny519

No, I did not mean I’d call any staple as dish, just the food(fried, stewed, steamed,boiled) for serving when having staples.


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## Thomas Tompion

Johnny519 said:


> OK, do you call scrabbled egg a dish? You don’t egg this alone, it goes with rice.


If you mean by scrabbled egg what I call scrambled egg, then I'd call it a dish when I wished to compliment the cook, but probably not if I cooked it myself.


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## Thomas Tompion

Johnny519 said:


> No, I did not mean I’d call any staple as dish, just the food(fried, stewed, steamed,boiled) for serving when having staples.


They could certainly be dishes, main dishes; or even side dishes.


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## Copyright

I think you would call something a dish if it has more than one ingredient. However, in Chinese cuisine, you place dishes on a table and share them, so if you ordered scrambled egg for four and it arrived at the table on a single, sharable plate, then I would still call it a dish.

 And of course there are exceptions to the rice-separate rule. Mapo doufu, Spicy Sichuan Tofu, is normally served without rice, but may also be served with rice, i.e. Mapo Doufu Faan, especially in fast food restaurants where it is intended for one person's consumption. In both cases, I would considered it a dish. (Mapo doufu, Wikipedia)

In general, I think anything beyond rice is going to be a dish. That includes most noodles, because they'll have some sort of preparation done to them; I don't think I've ever seen a plate to just boiled noodles. But if I did, and it was served as an alternative to plain steamed rice, I would not call it a dish.


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## wandle

Johnny519 said:


> I’m wondering if dish can be understood as the seasoned food served in the Asian restaurants(Chinese, Thai, Japanese,Korean,etc) without staple(rice,noodles).


A dish, when it means food, does not mean a type of food. It means the food portion or food combination which is served to an individual diner for a particular course in a meal. A meal might have three courses, which means each person receives their own dish for the first course. When those dishes are finished, the plates are cleared away and the next course is served and again each person receives an individual dish with the food for that course, and so on.
No matter what type of food is being served, the individual portion or food combination served to an individual diner is still called a dish.


> Habitually, in China, most people eat rice or flour-made food, but we don’t eat these staples alone, several dishes would normally [be] served [up], homemade or at din[n]er.


This sounds like the eastern style of serving, where a number of dishes are placed on the table and diners help themselves to what they want.

PS: the meal called dinner is still called dinner, whether you eat it at home or go out for it.


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## Thomas Tompion

Though one could have a dish of steamed rice.  Maybe that's a different sense of the word.


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## Johnny519

Sorry,my bad, it was a typo, it should be '' you don’t eat this alone''


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## Copyright

While steamed rice might be served on a dish (in a fast food restaurant; it's served in bowls in regular restaurants), I don't think it would be considered a dish in the same way sweet-and-sour pork is a dish. 

I'm speaking here of Chinese foods, of course.


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## Johnny519

Steamed rice? We don’t eat plain rice alone, fried rice is possible, at least it’s seasoned.


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## Thomas Tompion

Come to think of it, a plate of rice or noodles could be a side dish.


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## Johnny519

A plate of noodles is possible, a bowl of noodles is also possible, with or without dishes, but they should be seasoned. A plate of rice? steamed rice?  if it’s plain rice, it’s hard to imagine anyone would eat that without any dishes. If it’s a plate of fried rice, no problem, it could have other ingredients, garlic, egg, meat, etc.


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## Copyright

You have misunderstood me, I think. A bowl or plate of plain rice is not what I would call a dish, in the sense of prepared food.

Perhaps you can ask your question again with what you think are and are not dishes. I'm getting a bit confused in what is turning out to be a conversation.


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## wandle

Johnny519 said:


> A plate of noodles is possible, a bowl of noodles is also possible, *with or without dishes*.


A dish is not a type of food: please see post 10. it is the individual portion of food served to an individual person.


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## Copyright

wandle said:


> A dish is not a type of food: please see post 10. it is the individual portion of food served to an individual person.


This is Asian food, so the "individual portion of food" does not apply. It is sometimes served individually in western countries, but not in the countries it comes from, except in fast food restaurants.


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## wandle

The question is: what does the word 'dish' mean? 
The main point is that it does not refer to one *kind* of food or another, but simply to what is served up on a plate or in a bowl.

Different cultures have different practices. Western and eastern practices are both relevant to the answer.
The usage of the word 'dish' in English is primarily determined by European dining practice, but it can also be applied to eastern practice:





wandle said:


> Habitually, in China, most people eat rice or flour-made food, but we don’t eat these staples alone, several dishes would normally [be] served [up], homemade or at din[n]er.
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds like the eastern style of serving, where a number of dishes are placed on the table and diners help themselves to what they want.
Click to expand...


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## Johnny519

wandle said:


> A dish is not a type of food: please see post 10. it is the individual portion of food served to an individual person.



We could have dishes such as fried spare ribs, scrabbled egg with chives when we eat noodles,  I did not mean dish was a specific kind of food.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I believe "dish" can also be used to mean "recipe": "This is a dish which is prepared with different spices in different regions.", "This dish can be accompanied by/served with rice or with noodles."


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## Copyright

Yes, I saw that, but I was replying to "it is the individual portion of food served to an individual person." And considering that the OP says "Asian restaurants (Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Korean," it is, of course, an eastern style of serving.

This thread is losing the focus that my simple mind prefers, so I'll just wrap my comments by saying this: In normal, non–fast food, Asian restaurants, a dish is just about anything that arrives at the table on a plate or in a bowl or tureen with the exception of bowls of steamed rice, which are usually served individually. Steamed rice is not a dish, not least because there is only a single ingredient. And virtually all noodles are a dish because they involve some preparation and the addition of other ingredients, even if it's only soy sauce, green onions and mushrooms.

*Added: *My reply above was to what I could see in Post 20. But I've learned that Post 20 is rather odd. It doesn't show anything but the quote. After answering above, and seeing other answers in between 20 and this post, I clicked "Reply with Quote" to see if I could capture some of it, and I got this ... which doesn't show up in post 20 at all on my screen:


wandle said:


> The question is: what does the word 'dish' mean?
> The main point is that it does not refer to one *kind* of food or another, but simply to what is served up on a plate or in a bowl.
> 
> Different cultures have different practices. Western and eastern practices are both relevant to the answer.
> The usage of the word 'dish' in English is primarily determined by  European dining practice, but it can also be applied to eastern  practice.


Considering the OP was about Asian food, I'm not sure that western practices _are_ relevant.


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## Johnny519

Copyright said:


> Yes, I saw that, but I was replying to "it is the individual portion of food served to an individual person." And considering that the OP says "Asian restaurants (Chinese, Thai, Japanese, Korean," it is, of course, an eastern style of serving.
> 
> This thread is losing the focus that my simple mind prefers, so I'll just wrap my comments by saying this: In normal, non–fast food, Asian restaurants, a dish is just about anything that arrives at the table on a plate or in a bowl or tureen with the exception of bowls of steamed rice, which are usually served individually. Steamed rice is not a dish, not least because there is only a single ingredient. And virtually all noodles are a dish because they involve some preparation and the addition of other ingredients, even if it's only soy sauce, green onions and mushrooms.
> 
> Added: Post 20 is rather odd. It doesn't show anything but the quote. After answering above, and seeing other answers in between 20 and this post, I clicked "Reply with Quote" to see if I could capture some of it, and I got this ... which doesn't show up in post 20 at all on my screen:
> 
> 
> Considering the OP was about Asian food, I'm not sure that western practices _are_ relevant.



I agree with you 100％, it seems that you are pretty familiar with Asian food. Are you living in Far East?


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## wandle

Johnny519 said:


> I did not mean dish was a specific kind of food.


Yet this was the original question:


Johnny519 said:


> I’m wondering if dish can be understood as the *seasoned food* served in the Asian restaurants(Chinese, Thai, Japanese,Korean,etc) without staple(rice,noodles).


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## wandle

If we ask how the word 'dish' can be understood, then it can be helpful to show possible meanings, for the sake of distinguishing one from another. For example:





Thomas Tompion said:


> A dish can be either the plate on which food may be served, or the food which is served on that plate


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## Thomas Tompion

In my ignorance, I wonder if it's worth asking if Johnny is distinguishing between main dishes and side dishes.

At times people seem to be talking of main dishes only, and suggesting that side dishes are not dishes at all.


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## Copyright

Thomas Tompion said:


> In my ignorance, I wonder if it's worth asking if Johnny is distinguishing between main dishes and side dishes.
> 
> At times people seem to be talking of main dishes only, and suggesting that side dishes are not dishes at all.


There really aren't side dishes in Asian cuisine much beyond condiments (mustard, chili sauce, soy sauce) or small bowls of peanuts or preserved vegetables at the beginning of the meal simply as appetizers and chopstick practice. Once the main dishes arrive, these appetizers are either ignored or removed. 

We don't have sides of mashed potatoes or chips or coleslaw and the like, as western menus do. That's one of the pitfalls for tourists. It's not uncommon to see a single diner wanting several tastes order three things off the menu – and three dishes arrive that will feed four people. There are no half portions or individual portions.


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## Copyright

Johnny519 said:


> I agree with you 100％, it seems that you are pretty familiar with Asian food. Are you living in Far East?


I've lived in Hong Kong for 29 years and regularly go to the other Asian restaurants – Thai, Korean, Japanese – in town, so I'm familiar with serving styles.


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## wandle

The word 'dish' has a number of definitions in the OED, but only one which is relevant here:


> *2.
> a. *The food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish; a distinct article or variety of food.


 The examples given are all of English practice. However, The OED definition is broad. If we interpret it to include the main items of food in Asian cuisine, which are not served individually, I do not see how it can fail to include the subsidiary items, which are served individually. 
A bowl of steamed rice is indisputably 'food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish'.

 This conclusion agrees with the remark:





wandle said:


> This sounds like the eastern style of serving, where a number of dishes are placed on the table and diners help themselves to what they want.


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## Copyright

wandle said:


> If we interpret it to include the main items of food in Asian cuisine, which are not served individually, I do not see how it can fail to include the subsidiary items, which are served individually.
> A bowl of steamed rice is indisputably 'food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish'.


I guess we'll just disagree on this point. 

I see dish as requiring more preparation (and usually ingredients) than scooping rice out of an automatic rice cooker and putting it in a bowl. For me, there is generally a complexity and a bit of talent to a dish. So stir-fried rice of any sort is a dish. A bowl of rice is a bowl of rice. 

But it's all right to differ.


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## panjandrum

wandle said:


> A dish, when it means food, does not mean a type of food. It means the food portion or food combination which is served to an individual diner for a particular course in a meal. A meal might have three courses, ...


I would not refer to an individual portion as a dish.  For me, each of your three courses is a dish, no matter how many people are to be served.

From the WordReference dictionary dish


a plate used esp. for holding or serving foodut the dishes on the table.
a container used to bake or cook food:a glass baking dish for bread.
all the plates, bowls, cups, and utensils used at a meal:Who will wash the dishes tonight?
a particular type of food or preparation of food:This is an easy dish to make.

Particularly relevant to this thread, are definitions #1 and #4.
In definition #1, the dish is the thing on, or in, which food is served.  It is not the food itself.
In definition #4, the dish is the food, not the container.

If we were ordering Asian food of any kind for a group of people, we would discuss what kind of 'dishes' we want, as a group.  Typically, we would end up ordering chicken dishes, lamb dishes, vegetarian dishes ... along with whatever varieties of rice, noodles, bread, etc the group wished to have.

Or perhaps to answer the original question more simply, I understand a 'dish' as the_"seasoned food served in the Asian restaurants(Chinese, Thai, Japanese,Korean,etc) without staple (rice,noodles)."
_With the small reservation that some dishes already incorporate rice or noodles.I would apply the same terminology to any cuisine.The food I prepare and serve to my family typically consists of a main dish with several accompaniments.


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## Johnny519

wandle said:


> The word 'dish' has a number of definitions in the OED, but only one which is relevant here:
> 
> The examples given are all of English practice. However, The OED definition is broad. If we interpret it to include the main items of food in Asian cuisine, which are not served individually, I do not see how it can fail to include the subsidiary items, which are served individually.
> A bowl of steamed rice is indisputably 'food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish'.
> 
> This conclusion agrees with the remark:



I might have to differ from you in terms of classification of a bowl of steamed rice,  I may regard it as staple, it’s consumed with dishes. Otherwise, it’d be very unusual. We usually use an electric rice cooker to steam rice, a traditional way is cooking(boiling) rice with a wok.


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## Andygc

Johnny519 said:


> I might have to differ from you in terms of classification of a bowl steamed rice,  I may regard it as staple, it’s consumed with dishes. Otherwise, it’d be very unusual. We usually use a electric rice cooker to steam rice, a traditional way is cooking(boiling) rice with a wok.


I don't think you differ from most English speakers who use Asian restaurants (whatever definition of Asian you choose). A bowl of rice is a bowl of rice whether it's steamed or fried, plain or with bits in. We may call the bowl a dish, but I certainly wouldn't describe the contents as a dish, any more than I would call a dish of mashed potato or a portion of chips a "dish". Your distinction between "staple" and "dish" seems to me to be spot on.


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## RM1(SS)

Johnny519 said:


> I might have to differ from you in terms of classification of a bowl of steamed rice,  I may regard it as staple, it’s consumed with dishes.


This grates on me.  Saying "it's consumed with dishes" sounds like people are eating the bowls along with the rice.  "It's eaten with other foods, not by itself."


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## Johnny519

RM1(SS) said:


> This grates on me.  Saying "it's consumed with dishes" sounds like people are eating the bowls along with the rice.  "It's eaten with other foods, not by itself."


Really? If I say " A bowl of steamed rice is regarded as staple, it's consumed with dishes", this will let you think of people eating bowl? It's astonishing!


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## RM1(SS)

Because _dish_ is not used in that way.


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

RM1(SS) said:


> Because _dish_ is not used in that way.



"An order/portion [less likely, 'serving']" of what is usually called "white rice" in Chinese/Asian restaurants in the US ?


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## panjandrum

Johnny519 said:


> Really? If I say " A bowl of steamed rice is regarded as staple, it's consumed with dishes", this will let you think of people eating bowl? It's astonishing!





RM1(SS) said:


> Because _dish_ is not used in that way.


The rice is an accompaniment to the main dish, or dishes.  I suppose it is sort of right to say that the rice is consumed with dishes ... but as RM1 says, that is not something that a native speaker would say.


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## PaulQ

It doesn't matter if you are in a Chinese, or a French restaurant or even a McDonalds. As I see it, a *dish*, is an item from the menu as long as it is not described as a 'side [dish]'. We distinguish between side dishes [sides], and main dishes [dishes]

It does not matter if it is seasoned or not, and it does not matter if it comes with or without rice/noodles.

It's probably worth bearing in mind that the difference between a 'dish' [an item on a menu] and a 'dish/plate/bowl' with food on it is not very great.


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## Thomas Tompion

The fact the Johnny can still say that the staple is consumed with dishes means that we've failed to explain clearly how we use the word dish in English.

My own view is that we need to be clear about the difference between main dishes and side dishes, and in most oriental restaurants I know the staple would be classed as a side dish.


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## Loob

I've read the whole thread, and I confess I still don't understand what Johnny's question is.

Johnny, are you asking whether the term "dish" in English could be used to refer to something like plain boiled rice? If so, I'd say that the answer is probably "no". But, as TT has repeatedly explained, "side-dish" could be.

Perhaps your question is something different?


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## wandle

panjandrum said:


> I would not refer to an individual portion as a dish.  For me, each of your three courses is a dish, no matter how many people are to be served.


It seems to me that both the OED definition 'food ready for eating served on or contained in a dish' and the WR definition 'a particular ... preparation of food' are broad enough to include equally well the individual dish served to each diner and each course considered as a whole.


Johnny519 said:


> Really? If I say " A bowl of steamed rice is regarded as staple, it's consumed with dishes", this will let you think of people eating bowl? It's astonishing!


It does not necessarily suggest that the plates or bowls are eaten, but it does let us think of these items: it could simply mean that plates or bowls are used in eating the food.
In the same way, we say that European food is traditionally eaten with knives and forks, whereas Chinese food is eaten with chopsticks.


Loob said:


> Johnny, are you asking whether the term "dish" in English could be used to refer to something like plain boiled rice? If so, I'd say that the answer is probably "no". But, as TT has repeatedly explained, "side-dish" could be.


Surely if it is a side dish, it is a dish, whether we mean the food or the plate or bowl holding it.


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## Johnny519

Loob said:


> I've read the whole thread, and I confess I still don't understand what Johnny's question is.
> 
> Johnny, are you asking whether the term "dish" in English could be used to refer to something like plain boiled rice? If so, I'd say that the answer is probably "no". But, as TT has repeatedly explained, "side-dish" could be.
> 
> Perhaps your question is something different?



No, I did not ask if a bowl of plain of rice was dish or not though some of you native speakers would call it side dish. My original intention was to ask if the foods cooked and served up(for example,scrambled egg with chives, fried beef with chili pepper,etc) along with plain rice could be called dishes. 

After the discussion, I realized it would be much better to specify the food’s name.

For side dish, I don’t think we always have them prepared if we cook at home,  I think we say side dish because we have main dish. When we dine at a grand resturant, we always have many different foods.

PS  Traditionally in some rural places here, dishes could possibly be served up individually, so the whole dining time could be over than 1 hour.


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## PaulQ

Johnny519 said:


> PS  Traditionally in some rural places here, dishes could possibly be served up individually, so the whole dining time could be over than 1 hour.


If I were writing home about such a place, I would say something like: "The four of us arrived and were seated at a table, and then it started: dish after dish appeared, some for us to share, some in individual portions. And always, there was rice or noodles."


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## Johnny519

PaulQ said:


> If I were writing home about such a place, I would say something like: "The four of us arrived and were seated at a table, and then it started: dish after dish appeared, some for us to share, some in individual portions. And always, there was rice or noodles."



No, it’s not like what you described(I know you are talking about what we usually do at home or at dinners). It’s a little bit tricky, there is rice or noodles. 

Generally, 10-12 people are seated at a square-like table, only one dish is served and placed on the table, the group share it, when it’s finished up, another dish will be presented, that’s to say, you can always see only one plate of dish on the table.
Anyway, this is a culture thing.


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## RM1(SS)

RM1(SS) said:


> Because _dish_ is not used in that way.





ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> "An order/portion [less likely, 'serving']" of what is usually called "white rice" in Chinese/Asian restaurants in the US ?



"The rice is consumed with dishes."


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## natkretep

Johnny519 said:


> Generally, 10-12 people are seated at a square-like table, only one dish is served and placed on the table, the group share it, when it’s finished up, another dish will be presented, that’s to say, you can always see only one plate of dish on the table.
> Anyway, this is a culture thing.


I think I would call this a course. We often talk about a Chinese 8-course or similar. A course could come in a single shared dish (say, a cold seafood platter), or multiple simultaneous dishes (say, Peking duck - with a plate for the duck skin and another plate for the bun).


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