# Hindi/Urdu: interfaith interaction and greetings



## Setwale_Charm

Hello all!
I have just come across a new experience in my life today. I met a woman from Bangladesh and greeted her in the wrong way, I suppose. Now, I know that in Hindi you say Namaste to a Hindu person and Assalam Aleykum to a Muslim. And, of course, I know that the overwhelming majority of the population of Bangladesh are Muslim. But all that somehow did not click at the right moment so I said Nomoskaar to her. Now I realise that it probably happened so because I had only ever met Indian speakers of Bengali who were not Muslim, so Nomoskaar was the only word I bore in my mind for greetings in Bengali. Anyway, she stiffened immediately and said: I am a Muslim, so don`t give Nomoskaar to me. I wonder, are feelings really so sharp about it between the Muslims and the Hindus in that region? Do similar things happen anywhere else? And are there other things which should be avoided with regard to religious context?


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## cufnc

I am not from that region so I don't know, but all the Muslims I have encountered in my life did not get offended with "Namaste." In fact, I've only seen "Assalam Aleykum" used between Muslims. Maybe that woman had personal reasons to get offended. Whatever the reason may be for her not liking "Namaskaar," she needs to learn to not be rude to people she just met. She could have asked you to not use "Namaskaar" in a nicer way.


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## djchak

cufnc said:


> Whatever the reason may be for her not liking "Namaskaar," she needs to learn to not be rude to people she just met. She could have asked you to not use "Namaskaar" in a nicer way.



She was offended that you mistook her for Hindu. But she shouldn't have been...it's most likely becuase she has an issue with them. It's like Canadians who go nuts when you assume they are Americans. 

The average Muslims would probably just be amused, as would the average Hindu is you did vice -versa. It's her problem, not yours.


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## panjabigator

About 25% of Indian Bengali's are muslim (I have never met one though) and about 88% of Bangladeshis are muslim.  Some people can be touchy.  I'd say that the vast majority would be kind and reply back.  When I get namaste, I always say it back despite the fact that Im not Hindu.


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## lcfatima

*Moderator note:*
*This was the opening post of a thread in the OL forum. As the topic is somewhat the same, I merged the OL thread with this previous one in OL.*

When speakers of different religious backgrounds meet, is there a standard social rule for greeting each other? Is it patronizing for a Muslim to say namaste, or a Hindu to give a salaam? I noticed in Bollywood films, Muslim characters (unfortunately typically either door guards or thugs) say Salaam Saheb to the person they are greeting, usually a Hindu.

I noticed in concerts to a multifaith audience, the artist usually says Hello, Namaskaar, Sat Sri Akaal, and sometimes Asalaamu Aleikum or possibly Khush Amdeed, but sometimes no Asalaamu Aleikum/khush amdeed. I suspect there are political motives for leaving out the Muslim greeting. I have seen this at some concerts of fairly popular artists and also community talent shows.

What are your thoughts/observations on this?

What about addressing God in interfaith contexts? Is it okay for a Muslim to call God Bhagvaan when speaking with Hindus, and vice versa Hindus to say Rab or Allah? What about Sikhs? (I know Rab is used by Sikhs as well).

What would you advise a Hindi/Urdu learner to use so that one may be polite and respectful of diversity?


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## Faylasoof

Personally I have never shied away from using multi-faith greetings you mention. Sometimes I notice that those I do not know are more startled than offended by my eclectic, some might say idiosyncratic, behaviour. 

I also see no problem in using various names for God = yaweh / yahwah / jahova/ elohim/ il/ elaai / ilaah / allah / bhagwaan / tenree / tengree / khudaa / ahuramazda … I think, for the moment, I’m starting to run out of these more commonly used names!

It is hard to advise as some situations may require you to say less than more. I think it would be best to play it by ear.


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## Illuminatus

1. No Indian (irrespective of faith/religion) would find it odd to be greeted with a Namaste. Sat Sri Akal is common amongst Sikhs. Salaam would sound a bit unidiomatic, that's all. _Salaam_, unfortunately, sounds more like what servants/people in similar professions would say to their masters (mainly movies).

2. The concept was multiple greetings in public shows seems, at least to me, pretty artificial. A so-called display of faux-neutrality, so to speak, since everyone anyhow uses and understands Namaste/Good Evening.

3. <Bhagwaan> is the most common address for God. Even <ishwar> would sound formal, but would still be fine. Some phrases like Insha.allah are well-understood. Most of the names for God mentioned by Faylasoof wouldn't be recognised by an average Indian.


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## panjabigator

Wasn't <adab arz> also used as a secular greeting as well?

While in India, I've always "dono haath joR ke" namaste-ed or Sat Sri Akal-ed, and in Lucknow "adab."  



> What about addressing God in interfaith contexts? Is it okay for a Muslim to call God Bhagvaan when speaking with Hindus, and vice versa Hindus to say Rab or Allah? What about Sikhs? (I know Rab is used by Sikhs as well).



I try and stick to neutral God terms when unsure, but I believe we need not be so restrictive sometimes.  Do we risk offense if we say Allah to a Sikh or Hindu?  I'd say it's OK to use whatever term you want.

Sikhs use <rab> but the commonest words for God are <vaheguru> and <babaji>.


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## lcfatima

I have never heard of tenree/tengree.



> I also see no problem in using various names for God = yaweh / yahwah / jahova/ elohim/ il/ elaai


 
Aren't these Hebrew terms? Do South Asian Christians use these terms?


Panjabigator: What God terms are neutral?


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## panjabigator

I guess I envisioned the word "God" (गोड) itself as my main example, but I always interpret <bhagvaan> as being kind of generic.

South Asian Christians, I believe, use the deity vocabulary of their locations. Christians in Pakistan say Allah, do they not?


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## Illuminatus

Namaste has absolutely nothing to do with the Hindu religion, except perhaps its Sanskrit origin.

It literally just means <I wish you>, though the verb is a much higher form of <to wish> - <naman karna>.

Most Muslims in India use and acknowledge <Namaste> when talking to other non-Muslim Indians, irrespective of what they use with other Muslims. 

I wouldn't take offence if I am greeted with something like, <Assalaamu aaleikum>. Of course I would be amused/mildly surprised, because this greeting is unidiomatic, if not unknown, to most Indians.

And yeah, Setwale_Charm, please don't feel guilty. What you used was absolutely natural. I wouldn't have fared any "better" in the same situation. As others have already said, I'm sure the lady had personal issues.


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## panjabigator

Asalam aleikum is unknown to most Indians?  It may not be the number one greeting, but would it really unknown?


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## Faylasoof

We had a similar discussion not that long ago but at the moment I don't have a lot more time to look for it. 

 The terms Yaweh etc. are indeed Hebrew and I've had many discussions with Jewish friends in the UK about when each came into use. But coming to the point, even Karachi once had a (small) Jewish population. Most left in the early 60s, some stayed on. There might still be synagogue there, unless a greedy property developer has got his dirty hands on the site.

 In Luckhnow too there was once a Jewish family called the Landaus. They were clock makers and owned a shop in Hazrat Ganj area of the city. Most Indian Jews too are now in Israel. 

 So I guess though now it is less likely, but it is not impossible, to come across _desi_ Jews!

Tenree / tengree are the names of the Sky God from Central Asia. In fact, I heard a while back that just like in Iran (and Indo-Pak), where people use _khudaa_ as an alternative, there was a move in Turkey to start using _tenree / tengree_ – originally from Central Asian / Altaic (Turkic and Mongol) languages. Not sure if ever it caught on.

I'm not sure if we can have a neutral term for god. When discussing religion with my Christian / Jewish firends (or of any other faith), I use God, instead of Allah, even when talking about Islam. Its just a term.


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## lcfatima

I have never talked with Pakistani Christians about religion, so I don't know what they say. Maybe someone else could answer that.



Incidentally, some scholars recommend that we do not return an Asalaam Aleikum to non-Muslims based on a historical incident referred to in the ahadith (sort of like collections of sayings and reported actions of our Prophet pbuh) because members of an enemy community used a word that sounded like salaam to mock the Prophet. This idea of not returning salaam is very Salafi and this type of dogmatism has become sort of pervasive in South Asia, in my humble opinion. So I wonder how this affects interfaith greetings for Hindi/Urdu speaking Muslims who accept this isolationist scholarship. The recommendation is just to say "wa aleikum" instead of "wa aleikum asalaam." 

I am not sure if bhagvaan is really generic.


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## Illuminatus

_Of course I would be amused/mildly surprised, because this greeting is *unidiomatic, if not unknown*, to most Indians_

It is known but not idiomatic.


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## panjabigator

But wouldn't Pakistani Christians say "insha Allah" or other Islamic statements as would other Pakistanis?  

Would a Pakistani Christian sas "lahaul vale quwat?"

You're probably correct about Bhagvaan not being generic.


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## lcfatima

Yes, Karachi did have a thriving Jewish community once, just like Bombay, Calcutta, and Cochin (and I am sure there were smaller communities in many other cities). My mother in law has a Jewish Pakistani friend, a septagenarian who is married to a Muslim man, but she still observes the Sabbath.

I know there are some dwindling Jewish communities in India. I have been to a synagogue in Bombay (or was it Thane?). And I believe the famous Sassoon family is Jewish.


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## BP.

panjabigator said:


> But wouldn't Pakistani Christians say "insha Allah" or other Islamic statements as would other Pakistanis?
> 
> Would a Pakistani Christian sas "lahaul vale quwat?"



Both and more. These words are part of everyday parlance and don't adhere to one religion anymore. Maybe also because over there followers of both  religions call God Allah.


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## albondiga

panjabigator said:


> I try and stick to neutral God terms when unsure





lcfatima said:


> What God terms are neutral?



How about _uparwaalaa_?  It´s what I´ve envisioned using in a conversation if the topic of God came up...


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## arsham

This is an interesting discussion! I didn't know the word Allah is an active lexical element in Pakistan-India, or parts of these countries. In Iran, it's only used in arabic phrases such as "en shaa'al-laah", but never as an independent word!


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## BP.

Both Khuda and Allah are used there as standalone words as well as in native (non-Arabic) phrases. For instance people say _Khuda Haafiz_ and _Allah Haafiz_ interchangeably.


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## panjabigator

Illuminatus, how often do you hear <jay raam jii kii> as a salutation and departure phrase?  I typically hear it from Hindu Gujaratis and interpret it as not universally constant for Hindu greetings.


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## Illuminatus

Not very often. It is not the standard phrase. I wouldn't associate it with communities. Rather, with people. Some people always say <jai raam jee kee> due to, erm, whatever preferences.


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## cherine

*Hello guys,*
*As you see, many posts of this thread were moved from the OL forum to this Cultural forum that has its own rules. Please take a moment to read these rules before posting to avoid going off-topic or posting against the rules (mainly: personal opinions are not accepted if they're the sole content of a post).*

*Thanks for your understanding,*
*Cherine*


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## Lugubert

I have had some very favourable (and surprised?) reactions to my using Assalaamu aleikhem to an obviously Muslim person where most foreigners might have used just Namaste or a Western phrase, or when using Sat sri akaal to a Sikh, or leaving a (probably enough) Muslim guy with a Khuda hafiz.

Next time you meet these persons, you're already friends.


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