# All dialects/MSA: must, have to



## Granola

Hi,

I'm a little hazy about how to use "must" واجب in MSA.  How might you translate: "the people must help the individual"

Does it need to agree with its subject?

Thanks!


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## Abu Rashid

The most common expression I've seen used is actually using the verb form like this: يجب أن

يجب أن يساعدو الناس الفرد

You can also probably say واجب على الناس أن يساعدو الفرد


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## AndyRoo

Another possibility:
يجب على الناس مساعدة الفرد


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## Anatoli

Are these verbs used in the same sense?
لابد laabudda (present tense???)
يتحتم taHáttam (يتحتم  yataHáttam)
 لزم lazama (يلزم yálzam)

This expression?
علي أن `alayya 'anna (can't use 3 for 3ayn (ع), the number goes the other way)

So, واجب is an adjective. Is adjective لازم considered too colloquial and not used in MSA, like Egyptian or Levantine?


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## shafaq

Anatoli said:


> Are these verbs used in the same sense?
> لابد laabudda (present tense???)
> يتحتم taHáttam (يتحتم  yataHáttam)
> لزم lazama (يلزم yálzam)
> 
> This expression?
> علي أن `alayya 'anna (can't use 3 for 3ayn (ع), the number goes the other way)



Yes for other than يتحتم which means "to (be) impose(d) s/o on sthg by an authority".


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## Anatoli

Thanks, what's the present tense for لابد laabudda (in Arabic and Latin letters, please)? I saw it spelled separately and together.

Do you know the answer to this question I asked before:
_Is adjective لازم considered too colloquial and not used in MSA, like Egyptian or Levantine? 
_


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## xebonyx

Anatoli said:


> Are these verbs used in the same sense?
> لابد laabudda (present tense???)
> يتحتم taHáttam (يتحتم  yataHáttam)
> لزم lazama (يلزم yálzam)
> This expression?
> علي أن `alayya 'anna (can't use 3 for 3ayn (ع), the number goes the other way)



Yes, these are all used as a general must. But there are a few distinctions between them and the way I understand it (there may be more and feel free to correct or add to):

يجب - must, should

لا بد - must in the sense of "surely", "there is no other possibility" ie:

!لا بد أنك تمزح
You must be kidding! 

لا بد أنه كان يحاول القول لنا شيئا
He must have been trying to tell us something.

لزم - must: necessity, requirement. ie. these terms must be followed in order to qualify for something.

يتحتم - must: inevitable.

إليك وصلة تحتوي على قائمة هذه العبارات
http://arabic.desert-sky.net/g_modals.html


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## Anatoli

Wow, thanks!


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## aurelien.demarest

Hi guys,

I've searched into the forum but didn't find how to say "have to" in Arabic.
In my case I'd like to prepare a conclusion of a story (like a morale). 
Could you help please?

From that story we learned that *we have to* be careful and *we have* to be distrustful.
من هذه الحكاية تكلمنا لان ... حَذِر و ... مُرْتَاب.

From that story we learned that *we have to* be intelligent and *we don't have* to be naive.
من هذه الحكاية تكلمنا لان  ... ذكي و ... ساذج.

Thanks,
Aurélien


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## إسكندراني

There is no verb 'to have to'. It is expressed in other ways
علينا it is upon us
يجب/لزم علينا it is incumbent upon us
وجب/لزم it is incumbent [to...]


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## aurelien.demarest

Could you give an simple example please?


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## إسكندراني

> From that story we learned that *we have to* be intelligent and *we must not *be naive.


من هذه القصة تعلمنا أن علينا أن نكون أذكياء وأن نتجنب السذاجة
I have to come home.
لازم أعود إلى البيت


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## aurelien.demarest

Thank you very much إسكندراني however unless I am mistaken the part saying وأن نتجنب السذاجة is not exactly what I wrote "*we must not be naive*".
Isn't that part mean "we must avoid the naive" rather than to say "we must avoid to be naive" which has a high different meaning?
I am not sure so I'd rather asking...

Aurélien


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## إسكندراني

علينا أن ... وأن... إلخ
And I'm giving gisted translations; 'we must not be naive' علينا ألا نكون سذج  is better translated 'we must avoid being naive' علينا أن نتجنب السذاجة.


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## Rmacaw

aurelien.demarest said:


> Isn't that part mean "we must avoid the naive" rather than to say "we must avoid to be naive" which has a high different meaning?



I think السذاجة means 'naivete' not 'the naive (ones)', so I think Iskandrani's sentence has the meaning you want - "we must avoid naivete / we must avoid being naive"


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## cherine

إسكندراني said:


> I have to come home.
> لازم أعود إلى البيت


I believe this use of laazem is colloquial, it's not used like this in MSA.


aurelien.demarest said:


> I've searched into the forum but didn't find how to say "have to" in Arabic.


Bonjour Aurélien,

I suggest you try the advance search, and look up "have to" in "titles only". Here's a couple of previous threads about this topic:
- I have to
- You don't have to do anything
- Had to but shouldn't have
- Will have to


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## aurelien.demarest

Thanks Cherine for the tips!!!

Aurélien


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## AdamBaha

I know that in the dialects you say must by using لازم. e.g. لازم يروح البنك You must go to the bank. What about in formal Arabic? Do you use يجب? Is there any other way of saying it?


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## fenakhay

In Morocco :

خاص = khaaSS (khaaSSni namshi - I must go)
لازم = laazim (laazimni namshi - I must go)
ضروري ما = Daruuri ma (Daruuri ma namshi - I must go)
على = 3la (3liyya namshi - I must go)


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## Hemza

fenakhay said:


> In Morocco :
> 
> خاص = khaaSS (khaaSSni namshi - I must go)
> لازم = laazim (laazimni namshi - I must go)
> ضروري ما = Daruuri ma (Daruuri ma namshi - I must go)
> على = 3la (3liyya namshi - I must go)


لا بد مني نمشي in the South .


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## fenakhay

That's also used in the rest of Morocco: لا بد ما نمشي (la budda ma namshi). There are many ways to say it.


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## Ali Smith

I believe the word _must _is used in two different senses in English: the epistemic sense and the deontic sense. For example, compare the following:

He must be here. (said in response to someone who asked you where Bob was)
He must be here. (said when someone asked if Bob was required to be at the office today)

The second example is a little contrived, so here is another one:

You must speak Arabic. (said when someone told you he had spent all of his childhood in the Arab world)
You must speak Arabic. (said when a student asked you if he could speak English in your class)

The first example in both pairs contains the epistemic _must_ while the second contains the deontic _must_.

In MSA is لا بد used for both epistemic and deontic obligation? I think يجب is only used for deontic obligation.

I know that in the Egyptian dialect you use لازم only for deontic obligation, e.g. لازم يروح دلوقتي 'He should leave now.', not 'He has to go now.'.


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## cherine

Ali Smith said:


> I know that in the Egyptian dialect you use لازم only for deontic obligation, e.g. لازم يروح دلوقتي 'He should leave now.', not 'He has to go now.'.


I'm afraid I didn't understand your post well, especially this "deontic" part, but the Egyptian usage does mean "must". For "should", we usually use المفروض, though لازم is also used sometimes, and the meaning is understood from context.


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## Ali Smith

cherine: Thanks, but how do you differentiate between the following uses of _must _in Arabic?

His car's parked outside, so he must be here.
You must be here on time tomorrow or you'll be fired.


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## elroy

Ali Smith said:


> His car's parked outside, so he must be here.
> You must be here on time tomorrow or you'll be fired.


MSA:
سيارته مركونة خارجًا، أي أنه لا بد أن يكون هنا
عليك / يجب / ينبغي أن تكون هنا في الوقت المطلوب غدًا وإلا فُصلتَ عن العمل

Palestinian:
سيارته صافّة برّة يعني أكيد هو هون
لازم تكون هون ع الوقت بكرة لا وإلا راح تنطرد من الشغل


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