# Knock the door, knock on the door, knock at the door



## Abcd123kkk

What should be used:
Knock the door.
Knock at the door.
Knock on the door.

We are outside my friend's house, whom I have fought with, so my mother says this . 
What is used ? "Knock the door" is it correct?
Thank you


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## Keith Bradford

According to Google Ngram Viewer,_ knock *on*... _and _knock *at*..._ are equally common.  _Knock the door_ is rarely used.  This seems to go for both British and American usage.


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## Englishmypassion

"Knock the door" sounds as if you're breaking the door! 

The other two versions are fine, as Keith said. I remember having read that "knock on" is the perspective of the person inside while "knock at" from the perspective of people outside (which sounds like a good explanation to me) but I don't think that distinction is made by most people.


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## Hermione Golightly

I think I might make that distinction although we have a doorbell so people rarely knock. It's worth mentioning because it's the sort of thing one of those sneaky exams might ask about.

We are inside and I think I hear a knock at the door, so I ask my husband "Did you hear a knock at the door?"  He replies "I heard a knocking sound but it wasn't (at) the door."

I've been ringing somebody's doorbell for some time, but there's no response so I try knocking on the door thinking that the doorbell might not be working.

I agree that "Knock the door!" is not correct.


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## Andygc

Englishmypassion said:


> I remember having read that "knock on" is the perspective of the person inside while "knock at" from the perspective of people outside (which sounds like a good explanation to me) but I don't think that distinction is made by most people.


I don't think so. There's a great deal of overlap, but:
"'Who's that knocking at my door?' said the fair young maiden."
"The postman knocked on the door." Says what he did. "The postman knocked at the door." Says where he did it. But I wouldn't get excited about such a small difference.


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## Englishmypassion

But I said that because both are used commonly, interchangeably, in Ngram results: Google Ngram Viewer

And here 

Google Ngram Viewer


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## Andygc

I was commenting on the suggested "rule", which I think is the wrong way round. I wouldn't attempt to guess what distinctions people make. As I said, there's a great deal of overlap. Those ngrams don't have any context, so don't tell us whether people were inside or outside.


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## Egmont

The only thing "knock the door" might mean is "criticize the door" or "complain about the door." I agree with previous posters that it never means to make a sound on the door by striking it with your hand or a knocker.


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## Roymalika

Andygc said:


> I was commenting on the suggested "rule", which I think is the wrong way round.


Hello Andygc. Could you tell me how the rule is wrong way round? Could you tell me the correct rule, please?


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## Andygc

There is no rule. That's why I wrote "rule". If you read back up the thread you can see for yourself what was suggested as a rule.


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## Roymalika

Andygc said:


> There is no rule. That's why I wrote "rule". If you read back up the thread you can see for yourself what was suggested as a rule.


So would you use "knock on" and "knock at" interchangeably?
Examples
Who is knocking at/in the door?
Someone is knocking at/on the door. Please go and see who is at the door.
I wanted to meet Mr. Kamran. I went to his house, knocked at/on the door (the door of his house), but no one came to open the door.


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## Keith Bradford

Roymalika said:


> So would you use "knock on" and "knock at" interchangeably?
> ...


Absolutely, as does the average writer, it seems from Google Ngram Viewer. A slightly different one from #6, more up to date but no surprises.

I'm also perfectly happy with_ knock the door_, and would often use it in conversation. It has a good pedigree, forming the basis of a long joke in _The Taming of the Shrew._


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## Roymalika

Keith Bradford said:


> Absolutely, as does the average writer, it seems from Google Ngram Viewer. A slightly different one from #6, more up to date but no surprises.
> 
> I'm also perfectly happy with_ knock the door_, and would often use it in conversation. It has a good pedigree, forming the basis of a long joke in _The Taming of the Shrew._


Thanks, Keith.



> As a very general rule, I would say that _I_ knock on the door, while I hear _someone else_ knock at the door.



Can you let me know whether English speakers follow this rule?


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## Andygc

Roymalika said:


> Can you let me know whether English speakers follow this rule?


I doubt that Keith could possibly know sufficient millions of English speakers to answer that question.

This one doesn't.


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## Roymalika

Andygc said:


> I doubt that Keith could possibly know sufficient millions of English speakers to answer that question.
> 
> This one doesn't.


Thank you. 
Would you use "knock at the door" and "knock on the door" interchangeably all the time or would you sometimes not?


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## Andygc

No I would not use them interchangeably, but I do not use a rule book to decide which to use. It should be obvious from the posts in this thread that there is no general rule and that your repeated requests for one are a case of flogging a dead horse.


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## Roymalika

Andygc said:


> No I would not use them interchangeably, but I do not use a rule book to decide which to use. It should be obvious from the posts in this thread that there is no general rule and that your repeated requests for one are a case of flogging a dead horse.


I want to ask when I should use "on" and when I should use "at". I am not asking about a "rule", just some guidance. You know I am not a native speaker, so I can make mistake in using "at" or "on". It can be difficult for me to decide which one to use. 

I am sorry if I am being rude.


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## Roxxxannne

If you are asking specifically about 'knock on the door' and 'knock at the door,'  comments #3, 4, and 5 might be useful for you.


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## Keith Bradford

Roymalika said:


> I want to ask when I should use "on" and when I should use "at"....


There is no answer.  Choose whichever you prefer.  The word "should" has no relevance here.


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## Roymalika

Keith Bradford said:


> There is no answer.  Choose whichever you prefer.  The word "should" has no relevance here.


OK. 
I found this guidance on the internet:

_I_ knock on the door.
_someone else_ knock at the door.


What would you say about this, please?


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## tunaafi

I would say, as you have been told before, you are flogging a dead horse. You received a perfectly satisfactory answer in post #2.


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## Andygc

Roymalika said:


> I am sorry if I am being rude.


You are not being rude, but you are repeating a question to which there is no answer.


Roymalika said:


> OK.
> I found this guidance on the internet:
> 
> _I_ knock on the door.
> _someone else_ knock at the door.
> 
> 
> What would you say about this, please?


That, as guidance, it is useless.


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## e2efour

_Knock the door_ would appear to be common in some parts of the UK.

Watching TV tonight, I heard a Scottish police office say I _I knocked the door_, meaning that she knocked on the door.

In this thread (knock __ the door) panjandrum said that it was a common expression in Ireland and quoted an example from Wales.


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## Roymalika

Roxxxannne said:


> If you are asking specifically about 'knock on the door' and 'knock at the door,'  comments #3, 4, and 5 might be useful for you.


Hi, In the last post (#16) of the thread below, a native AE speaker is making a distinction between "knock at" and "knock on". Would you male that distinction too? I now know BE speakers find no difference, but I think AE speakers do. Is that right?
knock __ the door


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## Andygc

Roymalika said:


> I now know BE speakers find no difference,


No, you don't know that. They are not used interchangeably by most BE speakers, but different BE speakers will make different choices. What you have been told is that there is no rule to determine which form to use.


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## Roymalika

Andygc said:


> No, you don't know that. They are not used interchangeably by most BE speakers, but different BE speakers will make different choices. What you have been told is that there is no rule to determine which form to use.


I have completely understood that there is no rule. So it is just a matter of personal preference as to which form to use?


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## Barque

Yes.


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## Roymalika

Barque said:


> Yes.


Thanks.
I was confused by Andygc's saying that they are not used interchangeably by most BE speakers. On the other hand, he said there is no rule. 
If they are not used interchangeably, it means that one is suitable where there the other is not. So there must be some rule/guidance (which those "most" BE speakers follow) about when one is suitable while the other is not.


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## Barque

When he said they aren't used interchangeably, he (I'm just guessing here) probably meant that most speakers just choose one, and don't alternate between the two. Perhaps he'll confirm.

This is unlike words like, for example, 'rich' and 'wealthy' which can be used interchangeably--you might find the same person referring to someone as 'rich' on one occasion and 'wealthy' on another.


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## ewie

e2efour said:


> Watching TV tonight, I heard a Scottish police office say I _I knocked the door_, meaning that she knocked on the door.


(Scottishpersons also use _chap_:


> _Scot_  to knock (at a door, window, etc)


source)


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## Andygc

Barque said:


> he (I'm just guessing here) probably meant that most speakers just choose one, and don't alternate between the two. Perhaps he'll confirm.


More or less, but more complicated than that. The situation will affect the choice, but different people will make different choices for any one situation. I may ask "Who is knocking at the door?" when somebody else might say "Who is knocking on the door?", but given a small change in circumstances I may well say "Who is knocking on the door?" Do I have a rule? Yes, but it is a totally unconscious one - it's my idiolect.


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## dojibear

Roymalika said:


> I want to ask when I should use "on" and when I should use "at".


"Knock on" and "knock at" have different standard meanings in English. Use the one that fits the situation.

*Knock on *means "create a sound by hitting (something wooden)" By default you hit it with your hand. But it doesn't have to be a door. It is common to say:
- _He knocked on the door.
- He knocked on the table.
- My neighbors were noisy, so I knocked on the wall._

The meaning of the sound is affected by the situation. It could be complaining. It could be applause. It is always a way to get someone's attention, but it may imply something else.

*Knock at* means "create a knocking sound *at* an entrance". It is a way of sending a signal, requesting attention. The entrance usually has a door, but it might not have a door.
_- He knocked at the door.
- He knocked at the gate.
- He knocked at the home's entryway. _(by hitting a nearby wall)
_- He knocked at the room entrance. _(by hitting the woodwork)

Some cultures say something instead of knocking. An English speaker might not knock to get attention. They might say:
- Excuse me! (outside a room)
- Hello? Anyone home? (outside a house)


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## Roymalika

Barque said:


> Yes.


Hi, Barque.
Here in Pakistan, we only use "at". We don't use "on". I phoned an English professor yesterday, I asked about "on". He told me that "on" is wrong, only "at" is correct. 
Is it the same in India? Or do you, in India, use both "on" and "at" as native speakers do?


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## Barque

Roymalika said:


> He told me that "on" is wrong, only "at" is correct.


I'm no English professor, but I think _he's_ wrong. They both work.

"On" is the usual word in India.


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## Roxxxannne

To my knowledge, Americans don't use 'knock the door.'

Here's a thought.
Let's take some other examples that involve the entrance to a room or building:
He knocked on the door.
The cat lay across the threshold.
I stood in the doorway during the earthquake.
'On,' 'across,' and 'in' here refer to specific places.

But the place referred to here is more vague:
Did you hear that?  Someone knocked at the door, I think.
The faithful dog waited at the threshold for his master.
The maid stood at the doorway wondering if she should go in.

The knock may just as well have been on the doorjamb, the dog is not sitting exactly on the threshold block, and the maid may be outside the door itself, in the hallway.

Perhaps 'knock on' refers to the physical connection between one's knuckles and the surface of the door.
'Knock at' refers to the general vicinity of the door, whether the door itself, the doorjamb, or the wall beside the door.

On one hand, in types of English where people generally use one or the other expression but not both, one would follow the general custom (#34) or rule (#33).

On the other hand, in types of English that have no rules for 'knock at' or 'knock on,' one differentiates unconsciously.  I expect I use the distinction I described above. But that's just me.  Andygc (#31) pointed out that in British English it depends on one's idiolect (I expect the same is true in AmE).  So there is no correct or standard usage for 'knock at' or 'knock on' in these types of English; it's more 'speaking in conformity with another person's unconscious.' And _that_ is impossible.








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## forgoodorill

That's super informative! Thanks, Roxxxannne!
But could I ask you about the meaning of 'doorjamb' here? I think it's weird.


Roxxxannne said:


> Did you hear that? Someone knocked at the door, I think.





Roxxxannne said:


> The knock may just as well have been on the doorjamb


If 'doorjamb' means this:
doorjamb - Google Search:

I'm curious why someone will knock there? It hurts.

So could you help me? Thanks!


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## sound shift

Roxxxannne said:


> To my knowledge, Americans don't use 'knock the door.'


I speak BrE, and I have never heard it either.


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## Roymalika

sound shift said:


> I speak BrE, and I have never heard it either.


In BE, which one is more commonly used? On or at?


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## sound shift

Roymalika said:


> In BE, which one is more commoy used? On or at?


I don't really know.
I personally precede the noun with "at": "There's a knock at the door."
As for the verb, I could use "at" or "on": "There's somebody knocking at/on the door."


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## heypresto

The point I believe you should take from all the above is that you won't be wrong whichever of 'on' or 'at' you choose. 

Trying to nail one or the other as being 'more correct' or 'more commonly used' will inevitably fail.


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## velisarius

forgoodorill said:


> I'm curious why someone will knock there? It hurts.


Sometimes if a door is open (for example, an office door) and you want to know whether it's okay to go in, you may knock lightly on the doorjamb just to announce your presence. 



heypresto said:


> The point I believe you should take from all the above is that you won't be wrong whichever of 'on' or 'at' you choose.
> 
> Trying to nail one or the other as being 'more correct' or 'more commonly used' will inevitably fail.


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## Roxxxannne

forgoodorill said:


> That's super informative! Thanks, Roxxxannne!
> But could I ask you about the meaning of 'doorjamb' here? I think it's weird.
> 
> 
> If 'doorjamb' means this:
> doorjamb - Google Search:
> 
> I'm curious why someone will knock there? It hurts.
> 
> So could you help me? Thanks!


The door jambs that I have knocked on are made of wood or some kind of firm artificial material.  The jambs and the lintel are the frame that the door is set into.   Knocking on it is no more painful than knocking on the door itself.  In the large picture in the Google search, the jambs are the narrow dark red strips of wood on either side of the door (the one on the right is in the shadow).  The stone is the wall of the house.


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## dojibear

forgoodorill said:


> I'm curious why someone will knock there? It hurts.


1. Why? If the door is wood, and the jamb is wood, knocking on either one feels the same. 

2. In English it is normal to have several different things you can say, and native speakers say all of them.
Usually there is no "best one". If there are 2, usually there is no "better one".


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## yakor

Hi! Could one say> "Someone knocks in/into the wall"? (hit against?)
The same to "to knock onto something". (fall?)


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## Barque

yakor said:


> "Someone knocks in/into the wall"?


"Knocks into" isn't correct. "Knocking in a wall" refers to breaking one down. You could say "He knocked against the wall" meaning he bumped into the wall. This isn't the same "knock" as the knocking on a door you do to attract someone's attention.


yakor said:


> The same to "to knock onto something". (fall?)


"Knock onto something" doesn't mean "fall". Without a sentence I can't think of anything it could mean.


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## Keith Bradford

You could say:

"My children were making such a noise that the neighbours *knocked on *the wall to quieten them" (alternative: _banged on the wall_).
"The car's brakes failed and it *knocked into *the wall of a house" (alternative: _crashed into the wall_).
And that's about the limit of this phrase.  Different from *knock the wall in/out/down* which means _demolish_.


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## yakor

Keith Bradford said:


> You could say:


Thanks.


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