# Personal pronoun - Stressed Vs Unstressed Dative forms



## SerinusCanaria3075

Good morning.
What's the difference between the 2 forms, or which is most common?

Unstressed:
Singular- _îi _dau (le doy) (gli do)
Plural- _le_ dau (les doy) 

So when would you use the stressed 3rd person forms lui and ei?


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## Woland

Lui is more like a possesive pronoun .. eg. Haina lui/ei (his/her coat)
People often use Îi dau cartea (I give the book to him/her). 
However, in order to avoid a confusion, you may use _îi dau cartea *lui*(masculine) _and _îi dau cartea* ei*(feminine)_

The plural is the same for both masculine and feminine._ Le dau cartea *lor*_(lor-both masc. and fem.)


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## parakseno

Hello there!

Now this is a tough question... I'm not sure I'll be able to fully answer it, but I'll try.



			
				SerinusCanaria3075 said:
			
		

> What's the difference between the 2 forms, or which is most common?


It's not a question of which is more common. They have quite different functions and it's not always possible to substitute ones for the others.



			
				SerinusCanaria3075 said:
			
		

> Unstressed:
> Singular- _îi _dau (le doy) (gli do)
> Plural- _le_ dau (les doy)


These forms, which you presented, are the ones of the 3rd person.
singular 3rd person:  _lui_ ;   _îi, i-, -i_
plural 3rd person:  _lor_ ; _le, le-, -le, li, li-, -li_
The other two persons of the personal pronoun also have short and long forms for the Dative and Accusative.



			
				SerinusCanaria3075 said:
			
		

> So when would you use the stressed 3rd person forms lui and ei?


The long forms are usually used when they are accompanied by a preposition (as those that ask for the Dative: _graţie, mulţumită, conform, potrivit_ etc):


> Mulţumită ei/ lui/ lor au reuşit să termine la timp. - Thanks to her/ him /them they mananged to finish on time.


The long forms can form sentences on their own (the short ones cannot), eg. when giving short answers to questions:


> - Cui i-ai scris? - Whom have you written to?
> - Lui. - To him.


There are situations when both the long and short forms appear.
The long forms are "reinforced" by adverbs...


> _Îi_ vorbeşte *numai* lui. - He/she speaks only to him.
> _Le_ mulţumeşte *şi* lor. - He/she thanks them as well


or when emphasizing the person:


> *Lui* *i*-ai telefonat? - (approx.) Him did you call?
> *Lor li* s-a spus să facă asta. - They were told to do this


Usually the long forms can be substituted for the noun, while the short forms not .


> Mulţumită ei/ Mariei(fem.)/ lui Andrei(masc.)/ copiilor (masc. pl.) au reuşit să termine la timp.
> Îi vorbeşte numai lui George.
> "Vorbeşte numai lui George." is not a valid sentence.


Hope I was able to help a bit.
If you have any other problem on this topic, don't hesitate to ask and I'll do my best to try and help you.

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				Woland said:
			
		

> Lui is more like a possesive pronoun .. eg. Haina lui/ei (his/her coat)


Indeed, "lui" is also the form for the Genitive case of the *personal pronoun*. According to my grammar books, the possesive pronoun form for the 3rd person masculine (and also feminine) is "(al) său".
But "lui" is the form for the Dative case as well.


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## jazyk

For a Spanish speaker, this shouldn't be too hard, since it works in a similar way in both languages:

Lui i-am dat cartea a ei (i-am dat) scrisoarea.
A él le di el papel y a ella (le di) la carta.

I-am dat mesajul profesorului.
Le di el mensaje al profesor.

Jazyk


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## SerinusCanaria3075

Thank you very very much to all. Actually, now I understand the difference between Stressed and Unstressed whether it's accusative or dative (kind of confusive at first since the stressed forms of the personal pronouns in the dat/acc are prepositional in Spanish):

Dative: 
Mie = a mí (to me)
Lui = a él (to him)
Accusative:
[pe] mine 
[pe] el

The preposition "a" (to) is a must, although I still have some doubts about whether or not _pe_ can be translated as "a" (to).


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## OldAvatar

jazyk said:


> Lui i-am dat cartea a ei (i-am dat) scrisoarea.
> A él le di el papel y a ella (le di) la carta.
> 
> Jazyk


I hope you don't mind, you know that I'm already impressed by your Romanian knowledge. 
A little correction:
_ Lui i-am dat cartea iar ei _(i-am dat)_ scrisoarea._

*iar* is not mandatory if there is a comma; it is just to be more precise... I guess *a *from the initial phrase is actually in Spanish.

Best regards!


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## jazyk

Hahaha, that _a_ is actually Czech. Thanks for pointing it out. It isn't the first time I've used _a _in Romanian and I'm afraid it won't be the last one. 

Jazyk


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## parakseno

SerinusCanaria3075 said:


> Dative:
> Mie = a mí (to me)
> Lui = a él (to him)
> Accusative:
> [pe] mine
> [pe] el
> 
> The preposition "a" (to) is a must, although I still have some doubts about whether or not _pe_ can be translated as "a" (to).



I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to Spanish, so I might be wrong. As far as I see, "a" is a particle/ preposition used to mark the Dative case, as the English "to": "I spoke to him friendly" -> "(Lui) i-am vorbit prieteneşte."

Romanian does not have such a particle/ preposition to mark the Dative case (though there are prepositions which "ask" for Dative - see my previous post) as it uses endings to do that (as in many other places).
eg: I spoke to the boy - I-am vorbit băiatului.

On the other hand, the preposition "pe" cannot be used with the Dative, only with the Accusative. When it doesn't show location (when it's equivalent to the English "on") it usually accompanies/ introduces the direct object (and it's not translated in English).
"Stau _pe_ _bancă_" - "I'm sitting _on_ _the bench_"
"Îl vreau pe _cel gri_." - I want _the grey one_.
"_(Pe tine)_ nu te-am văzut la spectacol." - I haven't seen you at the show.
"_Cu tine_ nu mai vorbesc" - I'm not talking _with/to you_ anymore. (Acc.)


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## jazyk

> I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to Spanish, so I might be wrong. As far as I see, "a" is a particle/ preposition used to mark the Dative case, as the English "to": "I spoke to him friendly" -> "(Lui) i-am vorbit prieteneşte."


A is also used in Spanish before animate nouns as direct objects, similarly to Romanian pe:
O văd pe Maria. - Veo a María.

The difference is that you have to duplicate objects in Romanian (o must be used to agree with Maria and i) whereas that's not the case with Spanish, although such a construction is common in the River Plate area: La veo a María.

Jazyk


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