# Indefinite article



## Franek le Vaillant

Szia,
For some reason (well it'd be a bit long to explain, I'm comparing some features of French and Hungarian grammar), I'd like to know if it is possible to use a demonstrative followed by an indefinite article in Hungarian. Can you think of an example?
Something like:
(?) Láttam azt egy kutyát. [and if it is, what would such a sentence mean to you?]
Instead of a more usual:
Láttam az a kutyát.
Köszönöm,
François


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## Zsanna

Szia François and welcome to our forum!



Franek le Vaillant said:


> I'd like to know if it is possible to use a demonstrative followed by an indefinite article in Hungarian. Can you think of an example?


Yes: Ez egy kutya. _This is a dog._/ Az egy kutya. _That is a dog._



Franek le Vaillant said:


> Láttam azt egy kutyát. =>
> 
> Either: Láttam azt az egy kutyát (I saw that single dog - but then the "egy" is not the indefinite article anymore but the word indicating the number: _one_)
> or Láttam azt a kutyát.(The normal case: there is a definite article after the demonstrative.)





Franek le Vaillant said:


> Instead of a more usual:
> Láttam az a kutyát. =>
> The demonstrative  should have the "t" suffix (indicating the object in the sentence) the same way as the noun (here kutya) which is the object of the sentence.=> azt a kutyát


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## jazyk

But you could say Láttam az egyik kutyát, right?


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## Ateesh6800

jazyk said:


> But you could say *Láttam az egyik kutyát*, right?



Yes, but *"egyik"* is not a demonstrative like *this/that* (*ez/az*). Besides, *"egyik"* makes the terms _definite_, just like *"az"*, so both are definite/both make the noun phrase definite.

*egy kutya* = _indefinite_ <=> *a kutya* = _definite_ (definite article).
*egyik kutya* = _definite_ (because out of the many, you identify one specific dog, even if only vaguely). THIS IS MOSTLY THE SAME AS:
*az egyik kutya* = _definite_ (definite article).

Szerete*k* kutyát simogatni. (indef)
Szerete*k* egy kutyát simogatni. (indef)
Szerete*m* a kutyát simogatni. (def)
Szerete*m* azt a kutyát simogatni. (def)
Szerete*m* az egyik kutyát simogatni. (def)

*The rule is:* in Hungarian one noun phrase is _either definite or indefinite_.
Therefore you cannot combine it with a definite demonstrative _AND_ an indefinite article within the same noun phrase because the noun phrase _cannot be both definite and indefinite_.

_This is not in conflict with Zsanna's statement and example_ *"Ez egy kutya."* because here *"Ez"* is the _subject_, and *"egy kutya"* is the predicate (*"This is a dog"*), so the two don't form a single noun phrase. (The verb *"van"* is omitted in the present.)

So, to summarise, a demonstrative and an indefinite article may _follow_ one another like in Zsu's example *"Ez egy kutya"*, but they cannot be part of the same noup phrase, so this would be entirely non-grammatical:

** Megharapott ez egy kutya. (* This a dog bit me.)*
** Összebarátkoztam azzal egy kutyával. (* I made friends with that a dog.)*

*A.*


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## Olivier0

Franek le Vaillant said:


> Szia,
> For some reason (well it'd be a bit long to explain, I'm comparing some features of French and Hungarian grammar), I'd like to know if it is possible to use a demonstrative followed by an indefinite article in Hungarian.


What features of French grammar are you comparing to Hungarian? I probably can help in the comparison (my family is French and Hungarian), but I cannot see how you may want both a demonstrative and an indefinite in the same nominal group: could you give an example in any language?
-- Olivier


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## Zsanna

Hello Oliver0 and welcome to our forum!

Valid question. 
I didn't ask for it at the beginning because I hoped it would turn out from my answer (This is a dog/C'est un chien) that even in other languages (of my knowledge) it doesn't go any further than this.

It is sometimes difficult to put a question in another language (or context) to be perfectly clear about what you really mean...


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## Olivier0

In the opposite order though, it is possible to use a demonstrative and an indefinite in the same nominal group:
Láttam egy ilyen kutyát = I have seen such a dog = J'ai vu un tel chien / un chien comme ça.
In English the order is reversed, as compared to Hungarian and French using the same word order (which is rare ).
-- Olivier


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