# Norwegian: gn



## mezzoforte

Is it correct to pronounce *gn* (as in *regne*) like *ng+n* or like *g+n*?  Does it depend on dialect?


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> Is it correct to pronounce *gn* (as in *regne*) like *ng+n* or like *g+n*?  Does it depend on dialect?



Depends - on dialect and on the word/the combination of sounds. In bokmål, the "g" in "regne" is pronounced like a Norwegian normally would pronounce a "j", but in for instance "ligning" and names like "Magne", the "gn" is pronounced "ng+n".

Normally, "gn" would be pronounced like on of those in bokmål. I can't here and now recall any instances where it is actually pronounced "g+n", except that I'm quite sure it's used in some dialects. However, for a learner of Norwegian, the dialects should be regarded as something to worry about after bokmål is learned well (if at all) - it's a complex matter, to put it mildly.


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## Pteppic

The only exception to what oskhen said, that I can think of is that *gn* at the beginning of a word is pronounced *g+n*, as in *gnage* (to gnaw) or *gni* (to rub).


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## mezzoforte

But I heard *velsignet* as *g+n*


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## mezzoforte

This was in a folk song though.  I hear more letters than I think are normally pronounced, like *d*'s that I would think would be silent (e.g. *hovedsum, rede, fremmed*) and trilled *r*'s that should be retroflex (e.g. *hjerte*).

Is it typical in Nynorsk to pronounce all/more of the letters?  (This seems reasonable, since it makes sense historically for letters to be originally pronounced, than for silent letters to be added to the spelling).


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## kirsitn

mezzoforte said:


> Is it typical in Nynorsk to pronounce all/more of the letters?



In some cases, yes. But the song you're mentioning is presumably Mitt hjerte alltid vanker, which is a religious song, and they are often performed with a bit more pathos and theatrical pronunciation also if the lyrics are in bokmål.


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## kirsitn

PS: Unless you're particularly fond of church music, you might want to check out some of these Norwegian bands/songs instead (all available on youtube):

CC Cowboys - Tigergutt (Oslo dialect)
Dum Dum Boys - Splitter Pine, Slave (Oslo dialect)
Valkyrien Allstars - Å gjev du batt meg, Eg vil ha deg (a kind of nynorsk)
Kari Bremnes - Togsang, En elsker i Berlin (North Norwegian)
Kaizers Orchestra - Maestro, Kontroll på kontinentet (Stavanger dialect, be prepared to not understand a single word...)


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> This was in a folk song though.  I hear more letters than I think are normally pronounced, like *d*'s that I would think would be silent (e.g. *hovedsum, rede, fremmed*) and trilled *r*'s that should be retroflex (e.g. *hjerte*).



All those d's are normally pronounced. And "gn" in "velsignet" is normally pronounced "ng + n" - in bokmål.


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## Pteppic

So, I poked around youtube a bit, and Arve Moen Bergset's version of *Mitt hjerte...*, at least, has velsig-net, which I'd say is most likely dialectal (there are other traces of Telemark dialect in his pronunciation). There are other versions of the song on that same site where *velsignet* is pronounced more according to "standard". 

Also, I second kirsitn's suggestion to use some more contemporary music as pronunciation guides - and I'll add Anne Grete Preus to her list (her lyrics are basically Standard East Norwegian), for instance *Når himmelen faller ned*.


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## mezzoforte

Pteppic said:


> So, I poked around youtube a bit, and Arve Moen Bergset's version of *Mitt hjerte...*, at least, has velsig-net, which I'd say is most likely dialectal (there are other traces of Telemark dialect in his pronunciation). There are other versions of the song on that same site where *velsignet* is pronounced more according to "standard".
> 
> Also, I second kirsitn's suggestion to use some more contemporary music as pronunciation guides - and I'll add Anne Grete Preus to her list (her lyrics are basically Standard East Norwegian), for instance *Når himmelen faller ned*.



Ok, since you guys have discovered my taste in Norwegian music, I'll suggest you also listen to *Eg er framand* (of course with _ Arve Moen Bergset_)   It is the most authentic sound I've ever heard.... (sorry for being off-topic on a linguistics forum)....


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> All those d's are normally pronounced. And "gn" in "velsignet" is normally pronounced "ng + n" - in bokmål.



Thanks. But doesn't *rede *have a long *e* in *ed*, like in *slede*?  What about the *ed* in *allerede*?

He also says the *d* in *ei bede*.


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## kirsitn

Yes, all those words have a long *e* in *-ed*. *Bede* is not commonly used in bokmål, people usually say *be*.


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## mezzoforte

kirsitn said:


> Yes, all those words have a long *e* in *-ed*. *Bede* is not commonly used in bokmål, people usually say *be*.



So *rede *and *allrede *have a *d* but *slede* does not?


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## kirsitn

No, all of them have a d. Bede also has a d when written as bede, but that's not the most commonly used form of the word. See:

http://www.dokpro.uio.no/perl/ordboksoek/ordbok.cgi?OPP=bede&bokmaal=S%F8k+i+Bokm%E5lsordboka&ordbok=bokmaal&alfabet=n&renset=j


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> Thanks. But doesn't *rede *have a long *e* in *ed*, like in *slede*?  What about the *ed* in *allerede*?
> 
> He also says the *d* in *ei bede*.



The general rule is that a vowel followed by one single consonant is long.


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> The general rule is that a vowel followed by one single consonant is long.



Okay.  It's just that I thought the *-ede* ending usually has a silent *d*.


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## mezzoforte

mezzoforte said:


> Okay.  It's just that I thought the *-ede* ending usually has a silent *d*.



Sorry, I'm making things confusing.  I meant: Do *rede, allerede, slede* all have the *d* pronounced?  Does *"-ede"* usually mean a silent or pronounced *d*?  Same for *"-ode"*?


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## kirsitn

Single, non-final consonants are always pronounced. (By non-final I mean "not at the end of the word.)


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> Depends - on dialect and on the word/the combination of sounds. In bokmål, the "g" in "regne" is pronounced like a Norwegian normally would pronounce a "j", but in for instance "ligning" and names like "Magne", the "gn" is pronounced "ng+n".
> 
> Normally, "gn" would be pronounced like on of those in bokmål. I can't here and now recall any instances where it is actually pronounced "g+n", except that I'm quite sure it's used in some dialects. However, for a learner of Norwegian, the dialects should be regarded as something to worry about after bokmål is learned well (if at all) - it's a complex matter, to put it mildly.



sorry, did you mean *regne* is pronounced *rejne*?  Like the English word *rain* (with an  *e *at the end)... or like *rejnje*?



oskhen said:


> The general rule is that a vowel followed by one single consonant is long.



I thought that vowels/consonants can long _*only in*_ the stressed syllable.  So *ll* is long in *allerede*, and everything else is short?  It seems to sound right that the *d* is pronounced _because _the *e* is short



kirsitn said:


> Single, non-final consonants are always pronounced. (By non-final I mean "not at the end of the word.)



what about *holde, blande, ende*?  (I can't believe my book lies about the silent letter in *slede*.)


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## kirsitn

mezzoforte said:


> what about *holde, blande, ende*?  (I can't believe my book lies about the silent letter in *slede*.)



All those have a silent d, but that's because the d comes after another consonant. It may be that slede can be pronounced both with and without the d, but I would definitely pronounce the d.


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## kirsitn

Allerede is pronounced "allereeede", with the middle e being long and stressed. All the other vowels are short.


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> sorry, did you mean *regne* is pronounced *rejne*?  Like the English word *rain* (with an  *e *at the end)... or like *rejnje*?
> 
> 
> what about *holde, blande, ende*?  (I can't believe my book lies about the silent letter in *slede*.)



"regne" is pronounced "rejne". The first "e" is open, almost a short "æ".

If the "d" in "slede" is silent anywhere, it must be in some obscure dialect. I rather doubt it, though.


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> I thought that vowels/consonants can long _*only in*_ the stressed syllable.



Yes, that must be correct. Of course.


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> It seems to sound right that the *d* is pronounced _because _the *e* is short



No, there's no such rule


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## Pteppic

I can confirm that *slede* can be pronounced without the d (I do it), but I would not in any way say that that's the standard pronunciation. And I do pronounce the d in *rede* and the others, so I suppose *slede* is an exception, at least in my personal idiolect


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## oskhen

Pteppic said:


> I can confirm that *slede* can be pronounced without the d (I do it), but I would not in any way say that that's the standard pronunciation. And I do pronounce the d in *rede* and the others, so I suppose *slede* is an exception, at least in my personal idiolect



Do you have a special socio-/dialect?


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## Pteppic

oskhen said:


> Do you have a special socio-/dialect?



No idea. I'n an (Eastern) Oslo native, but we visited family in Nordmøre and Elverum quite a bit when I was young, so I may have picked it up there.


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## mezzoforte

oskhen said:


> "regne" is pronounced "rejne". The first "e" is open, almost a short "æ".
> 
> If the "d" in "slede" is silent anywhere, it must be in some obscure dialect. I rather doubt it, though.



OH, you mean like "deg", so it's "reg"+"ne"


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## oskhen

mezzoforte said:


> OH, you mean like "deg", so it's "reg"+"ne"



Yes. Again - this is in bokmål.


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## Magb

oskhen said:


> If the "d" in "slede" is silent anywhere, it must be in some obscure dialect. I rather doubt it, though.



I'm from Grenland, and I usually pronounce it with a silent 'd'.


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## oskhen

Magb said:


> I'm from Grenland, and I usually pronounce it with a silent 'd'.


 
I remember now that I have heard it as well. But I think it's the exception.


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## basslop

In my dialect too, Romerike, the 'd' is omitted. To me it occurs to be the case in many 'Østlandsdialekter'.


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## oskhen

basslop said:


> In my dialect too, Romerike, the 'd' is omitted. To me it occurs to be the case in many 'Østlandsdialekter'.



Some pronounce "allereie", of course.


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