# 藏独分子



## Guayaba

大家好:
我昨天在听新闻的时候听到了"憎妒分子", 可是在我的字典里都找不到.  有人知道"憎妒分子"怎么翻成英文吗? 不巧什么上下文我都记不住. 
谢谢!

Hello everyone:

Yesterday while listening to the news I heard "zēngdùfènzǐ", but I can't find it in my dictionary.  Does anyone know how to translate "zēngdùfènzǐ" in to English?  Unfortunately I don't recall the context.

Thank you!

P.S.: I understand it's some type of extremist, but just can't think of the proper English word. Also, please feel free to correct my written Chinese.  I need all the help I can get


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## avlee

Well, I'm afraid what you heard is "zhangdùfènzǐ", which means an extremist who pursue to get Tibet independent. In Chinese character, it should be“藏独分子”. However, I seldom listen to the elaborately made news from authorities except for the moments that I think I do need to learn some techniques to avoid being fooled. So I might be wrong as well.

(Several hours later...)
P.S.: After a further check on CNN website, they use Tibetan separatists to mean“藏独分子”which looks more concise to me.


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## samanthalee

avlee said:


> Well, I'm afraid what you heard is "zhangdùfènzǐ", which means an extremist who pursue to get Tibet independent. In Chinese character, it should be“藏独分子”.



Taken on its own, 分子 (or 份子)  does not refer to "extremists". It refers to "member", "element" or "factor".

Hence 藏独分子 (藏独份子) should be a neutral term that refers to people who work at getting independence for Tibet. However, it is common consensus among Chinese that when the label of 分子 is applied on people who work at getting independence for any part of China including Republic of China (Taiwan), the term 极端分子[extremist] is implied.


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## Guayaba

Thank you avlee and samanthalee for correcting my mistakes and clearing up the confusion."藏独分子" (Zàngdúfènzǐ), "Tibetan Separatists", is indeed the exact word that I was seeking.    
多谢!


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## legarcon

Guayaba said:


> Thank you avlee and samanthalee for correcting my mistakes and clearing up the confusion."藏独分子" (Zàngdúfènzǐ), "Tibetan Separatists", is indeed the exact word that I was seeking.
> 多谢!


 
How to say" 台独分子" in English??  ？？

Is that  "Taiwanese separatists"?????


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## avlee

Somehow, this one sounds a bit dissonant to my ears.
I would prefer "Taiwan separatists".


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## samanthalee

I don't know about other regions, but in Singapore, we draw a distinction between "~独分子" and "分离主义分子".

We rarely call "Tibetan Separatists" [西藏分离主义分子] as "pro-independence Tibetans" [藏独分子].
Similarly we usually don't call "pro-independence Taiwanese" [台独分子] as "Taiwanese Separatists" [台湾分离主义分子].

So, if you want to say "台独分子" in English， I would suggest "pro-independence Taiwanese". If you prefer to translate it as "Taiwanese Separatists", the corresponding Chinese term is "台湾分离主义分子".


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## Guayaba

长见识了.
谢谢


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## Mugi

With respect to Tibet and Taiwan, the English terms "pro-independent" and "separatist" refer to the same thing. They're both loaded terms - the difference is on what side of the fence you're standing. If you're the Chinese government wanting to maintain the integrity of the state, then anyone who works to the contrary is a separatist; if you're working to become a different state, then you consider yourself "pro-independant". Unfortunately I don't think there is a neutral term. If one reads "pro-independent", one automatically indentifies that as being "good" and pro-indepenence people as "friends"; "separatists" on the otherhand are identified as your enemy. Most western media is unlikely to use the term "separatist" often in this case. If they do, they're either pro Chinese government, wanting to curry favor with the Chiense government, or the editor was half asleep when they checked the article! I assume the same distinction exists in Chinese.


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## samanthalee

Mugi said:


> ... They're both loaded terms - the difference is on what side of the fence you're standing. If you're the Chinese government wanting to maintain the integrity of the state, then anyone who works to the contrary is a separatist; if you're working to become a different state, then you consider yourself "pro-independant". Unfortunately I don't think there is a neutral term...



Oh yes, that was what I was trying to say.  The Chinese media doesn't seem to distinguish between "~独分子" and "分离主义分子". From their point of view, I expect them to use the term "分离主义分子". But they are using "~独分子" and "分离主义分子" interchangeably.

I could be just my prejudice (because Singapore is sitting on the fence about Taiwan), but I firmly believe that "pro-independence" is the neutral term. If we are on the other side of the fence, we'll have used the term "freedom fighter" [解放战士].


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## avlee

Mugi said:


> With respect to Tibet and Taiwan, the English terms "pro-independent" and "separatist" refer to the same thing. They're both loaded terms - the difference is on what side of the fence you're standing. If you're the Chinese government wanting to maintain the integrity of the state, then anyone who works to the contrary is a separatist; if you're working to become a different state, then you consider yourself "pro-independant". Unfortunately I don't think there is a neutral term. If one reads "pro-independent", one automatically indentifies that as being "good" and pro-indepenence people as "friends"; "separatists" on the otherhand are identified as your enemy. Most western media is unlikely to use the term "separatist" often in this case. If they do, they're either pro Chinese government, wanting to curry favor with the Chiense government, or the editor was half asleep when they checked the article! I assume the same distinction exists in Chinese.


Exactly, I only read "Tibetan Separatists" in the cited words from a Chinese government officer in one CNN news report.


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## oooodavidoooo

hello!


Guayaba said:


> 大家好:
> 我昨天在听新闻的时候听到了"憎妒分子", 可是在我的字典里都找不到. 有人知道"憎妒分子"怎么翻成英文吗? 不巧什么上下文我都记不住.
> 谢谢!


 
i think it's a little strange the usage of ''都'' in that phrase. 
you maybe want to say '' 我在字典里怎么都找不到'' or ''我在字典里怎么也找不到''(you use all the method to find it in the dictionnary but you can't find it). the phrase that you said (可是在我的字典里都找不到) hint ''find in the dictionnary is the best method that I've got , but I can't still find it.''

it's just a little nuance , but it can hint different things that you want to say.


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## Guayaba

Thank you so much for that information!  My major difficulties in Mandarin involve the correct usage of ¨了¨, ¨都¨ and ¨把¨. I truly appreciate all corrections because that´s how I learn.  Of course, I also have several minor difficulties (哈哈).  Best regards


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