# The President's husband



## ampurdan

Yesterday I saw a movie which pictured the US Secret Service putting the President in jeopardy. It was so good that I had time to think about this question: how will US citizens call the first woman President's husband? "First sir"? I don't think so. Probably just "the President's husband". But then, what's that for a non-sexist official language?

Of course, this question is valid for any other country where the "first lady" has such an important role as in the States.


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## Chazzwozzer

Far as I know, they say First Gentleman in English. I'd say first guy, though. 

We also use "first lady" in Turkish to refer to president's or prime minister's wives. I don't think it has anything to do with sexism in language, people have sexes, how'd you avoid it? I might have gotten your question wrong, so please correct me if I am wrong. Anyway, if it's the answer: it's the same as in sexist languages in non-sexist languages, at least in Turkish.

For Tansu Çiller's husband, we just used his name. He accepted his wife's last name, he was known, like, a henpecked husband, so I think nobody thought saying "first" for him. Rather, if I am not mistaken, they call Tansu Çiller first lady herself.

Very interesting thread indeed.


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## Nunty

If Mrs. Clinton becomes president, I can think of any number of things to call her husband... 

In a more general sense:
The First Gentleman 
President and Mister [Your Name Here]
The little man behind the great lady
The president's lovely helpmeet
The White House host with the most

Oh, you were serious? Sorry. I'll just slip quietly back into my cell... But the first two would be serious logical alternatives, and I don't believe I'll live to see it happen.


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## maxiogee

I imagine that the term "The First" will be dropped as the PC brigade will object to "gentleman", the term "the first man" would be ludicrous, and "Ol' moneybags" would be too blatant! 





Nun-Translator said:


> and I don't believe I'll live to see it happen.



Of course you won't - Condoleeza isn't married! And as with Margaret Thatcher, once Americans have had one woman leader they may be awfully slow to elect another.


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## Henryk

Well, we have a female chancellor in Germany and the media call Miss Merkel's husband "First Man".

But, nonetheless, the press is totally wrong since the "first man" in Germany is Horst Köhler, our Federal President.


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## ireney

I'm sorry, I know this IS a serious discussion but, for some reason, I keep thinking that the PC would probably opt for something like the First Male which brings chimps and whatnot to my mind (after all, it's only one step away from Prime Male)


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## timpeac

The main man?


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## Brioche

The husband of the governor of Michigan styles himself "the first gentleman".

http://www.michigan.gov/firstgentleman 

Personally, I think titles for spouses of elected official are daft.


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## Outsider

ireney said:


> I'm sorry, I know this IS a serious discussion but, for some reason, I keep thinking that the PC would probably opt for something like the First Male which brings chimps and whatnot to my mind (after all, it's only one step away from Prime Male)


Tsk, tsk, tsk, you just don't understand political correctness. On the contrary, it would be the perfect opportunity to introduce the new term "First Partner"! 

A bit more seriously, it would be interesting if Hillary Clinton were elected president, for another reason. Americans often seem to address former presidents as "Mr. President". So there would be a president Hillary Clinton in the White House, and a president Bill Clinton married to her!


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## Tabac

I agree with Sister.


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## danielfranco

I can just picture the press falling all over themselves trying to come up with an acceptable and catchy title for the first First Alpha Male Dog Man Thingy!
They'd probably spend all of the first term trying to agree on the term, and then get the Fox network to elect them again so they can use the term with gusto!
Here's a possible news blurb from the future:
"President Clinton and Former President Clinton welcome the heads of state of many countries in the back lawn of the White House, as they don't want them to soil the new carpet..."


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## fenixpollo

I agree that the idea of the President's spouse having a title is silly, but the US has so few traditions that we cherish those we have.

Our next female president will be called _Madam President_.... assuming she's married. At this point, however, I can't imagine that US voters would elect a single person (man or woman) to be president, any more than I can imagine them electing a woman. 

I vote for the term *First Husband*, if only to avoid the debate with those who believe that Bill Clinton is no gentleman!


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## maxiogee

> Our next female president
"first", surely?

> assuming she's married. At this point, however, I can't imagine that US voters would elect a single person
Would it have to be a married non-single? Could it be divorced, or widowed (be it male or female)?


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## Outsider

fenixpollo said:


> I vote for the term *First Husband*, if only to avoid the debate with those who believe that Bill Clinton is no gentleman!


Sorry, but doesn't that sound kind of funny?...


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## fenixpollo

maxiogee: I suppose Americans would be more likely to elect a widower or a widow than a single person, but even so....

outsider: Do you mean "funny = ha-ha" or "funny = strange"? 

"Next" female president?  Some cynical anti-Democrats like to paint Hillary as the real power behind the throne, as it were. And of course there is Eleanor Roosevelt. During FDR's grave ilness between fall of 1944 and April of 1945, _somebody_ had to be running the country. Many people claim that it was Eleanor.


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## geve

ampurdan said:


> Of course, this question is valid for any other country where the "first lady" has such an important role as in the States.


Our president's wife collects coins to fund projects for children in hospitals. Would you call that an important role? 
We just call her "Bernadette". It's her first name and it suits her very well.

If Ségolène Royal wins the 2007 presidential elections, we could probably call her partner François Hollande (indeed they're not married, shocking!) "the looser", since he would probably like the position too. He was given the name of "Monsieur Royal" for a while though, so there would be a chance that this comes up again.


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## Hakro

In Finland we have a female president but we have no such problem because we have never used the expression "first lady". The husband of our president is called simply by his name and title. Besides, they were not married when she was elected.


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## Outsider

fenixpollo said:


> outsider: Do you mean "funny = ha-ha" or "funny = strange"?


Both, I guess.


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## moirag

Hakro said:


> In Finland we have a female president but we have no such problem because we have never used the expression "first lady". The husband of our president is called simply by his name and title. Besides, they were not married when she was elected.


As far as I remember, Margaret Thatcher's husband was simply referred to as Dennis - and that's as it should be, surely. If you need to explain further, it's "Dennis, Margaret Thatcher's husband" , or whatever.


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## cuchuflete

Assuming that Hillary Clinton would be the Pres., then history might lead us to name her spouse "First Adulterer".  Of course that would be a comparative designation, and not a temporal one...first among equals, rather than first ever to have achieved such status.


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## .   1

Would Premier fit the bill.
It has an established political definition as a word that means a head of state.
It also means;
First in importance, rank etc,
first in occurrence, earliest,
It is from the Latin _primus_ first.

.,,


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## Nunty

. said:


> Would Premier fit the bill.
> It has an established political definition as a word that means a head of state.
> It also means;
> First in importance, rank etc,
> first in occurrence, earliest,
> It is from the Latin _primus_ first.
> 
> .,,


I don't think so. In American parlance, at least, "premier" means "prime minister". In addition, the Presidential Spouse has only a ceremonial role. (Unless she's Eleanor Roosevelt...)


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## swift_precision

I don't think I'll live to see the first minority president yet alone the first female president.


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## maxiogee

moirag said:


> As far as I remember, Margaret Thatcher's husband was simply referred to as Dennis - and that's as it should be, surely. If you need to explain further, it's "Dennis, Margaret Thatcher's husband" , or whatever.



That's because the spouse of a British Prime Minister has never had a title - not even an informal one. Harold Wilson's wife was just Mary Wilson, and so forth.


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## cuchuflete

Suppose the spouse of a sitting president should die while the mate holds office, or run away, get divorced or otherwise cease to be the "First Pooobah".   Next, suppose that the president begins to date someone else.  What would we properly or improperly call that new contact?  

First Date?

First pretender?


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## ireney

The spouse of the Prime Minister of U.K. wouldn't be a First Whatever anyway since the head of state is, officially, Her Majesty the Queen or His Majesty the King as the case might be.

Cuchuflete how about First Man to be scared to death to go  even for First Base what with all the cameras and so on?


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## maxiogee

cuchuflete said:


> Suppose the spouse of a sitting president should die while the mate holds office, or run away, get divorced or otherwise cease to be the "First Pooobah".   Next, suppose that the president begins to date someone else.  What would we properly or improperly call that new contact?
> 
> First Date?
> 
> First pretender?



Don't be silly!  
*Second Best* is the obvious alternative


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## justjukka

I pray to HIGH HEAVEN that Hillary does not become President.

I agree that First Gentleman would work.


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## Hakro

Excuse me but I can't understand why this title "First" seems to be so important for the Americans. Can anybody explain?


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## .   1

Hakro said:


> Excuse me but I can't understand why this title "First" seems to be so important for the Americans. Can anybody explain?


The need to be first among equals.
There is something faintly communistic about that concept.

.,,


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## timpeac

Hakro said:


> Excuse me but I can't understand why this title "First" seems to be so important for the Americans. Can anybody explain?


Great question I was wondering this too. I reckon it's because they are proud of the (dubious claim) that the USA are founded on absolute egality. Therefore how can you have titles in a world where everyone is equal? And yet some are more equal than others and so you have the _first_ among equals. That's my theory anyway.


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## Outsider

Is the U.S. is the only country where the phrase "first lady" is used? 

P.S. Nope. It's used here, too...


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## ireney

timpeac said:


> Great question I was wondering this too. I reckon it's because they are proud of the (dubious claim) that the USA are founded on absolute egality. Therefore how can you have titles in a world where everyone is equal? And yet some are more equal than others and so you have the _first_ among equals. That's my theory anyway.



I think they got it from Thycydides who said about Pericles that, during his time, the "regime" was in name democracy, in reality (practically) it was being governed by the first man. In other words "“So, in what was nominally a democracy, power was really in the hands of the first citizen".

Now, given that his lover Aspasia was (cough cough) a naughty girl , I doubt any First Lady would like any connection with her (although, if what we know of Aspasia is to be believed I wish more "First Ladies" of any country were more like her )

P.S. I browsed all articles and they all seem poerfectly fine


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

In the Democatic party's primary election to select their nominee for the Presidency, one of the candidates was Pete Buttigieg. He was a homosexual who called his partner his "husband." I wonder how the media would have referred to his partner?... 

Edit: My mistake; his partner calls Mr. Buttigieg his husband, and took the name of "Buttigieg" when they were married. [Thus the couple would be called "the Buttigiegs", but that may be wandering from the topic a bit.]


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## fenixpollo

No differently than they would refer to Hillary Clinton's partner if she had been elected. Pete is just as married to his husband as Hillary is married to her husband. Marriage is marriage. So both Chasten and Bill would take the same title, such as First Husband or First Gentleman.


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## Welsh_Sion

Or if you follow Antipodean logic then ex-Prime Minister of Australia's Julia Gillard, and present 'other half' of New Zealand's Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern were/are known as 'First Bloke'.

The British are a bit more conservative (capital 'c' optional) in this regard and Mr Thatcher, Mr May and Mr Foster (First Minister of Northern Ireland's husband) and Mr Murrell (First Minister of Scotland's husband)  were/are known only by these titles and not as appendages to their wives' leading political roles.


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## DearPrudence

Isn't the role given to the US' First Lady strange in the first place?
How does being married to someone qualify you to do have a role in his professional life?
"I'm sorry, the surgeon who was supposed to operate on you is sick, but his wife will stand in for him. Yeah, she's a farmer, but most important, she's the surgeon's wife, so don't you worry!"
So just to say that it makes sense to just call Mrs Tchatcher's husband, "Mr Thatcher", Mrs Merkel's husband, "Mr Sauer" (I had to look this one up)...
Why do we even need to talk about them actually? 


Brioche said:


> Personally, I think titles for spouses of elected official are daft.


Agreed


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

When Mr. Buttigieg and Mr. Glezman got married, the latter changed his name to "Buttigieg". So "President and _____ Buttigieg" ??? For man-and-woman couples, we say "The President and Mrs. [e.g.] Lincoln/Wilson/Carter". But Chasten is a man, so we can't call him "Mrs.", right? (This is a serious question; I don't know what I'd write if I were a newspaper editor

By the way, I hope swift_precision (#23*) got to see their prediction disproven.

(We can't "Reply" to or "Quote" posts when we edit our own, or I'd have done so in my previous.)


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## fenixpollo

President and Mr. Buttigieg. I'm not sure what your question is. Are you confused because both of them are now "Mr. Buttigieg"?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

fenixpollo said:


> President and Mr. Buttigieg. I'm not sure what your question is. Are you confused because both of them are now "Mr. Buttigieg"?



Yes. So if you were an editor, that's how you'd print it.


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## merquiades

The President of the United States and the first gentleman?
The President and Mr. Smith  may sound strange at first because it's novel but over time it would become absolutely normal and accepted.

How are they referring to Kamala Harris' husband?  It wouldn't be that much different for a same sex couple.

Perhaps there are countries in the world where this has already happened.


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## Welsh_Sion

Perhaps there are countries in the world where this has already happened.
___________

See my note 36 as examples, @merquiades. (I don't know what they do in Germany, though. And I don't speak German, either.) Also, what did they do with Mme Cresson's husband when she was PM of France?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

I suppose one could look up the Peoria media to see if the called them "Mayor and Mr. Buttigieg" after they got married during his second term in office. For VP-elect Harris's spouse, "the Second Gentleman" sounds strange, not least because it would seem to mean there is a "First Gentleman", and President-Elect Biden isn't referred to as that.

By the way, in Senate hearings, a woman Senator is called 'the Gentlelady from (state)".


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## Roxxxannne

DearPrudence said:


> Isn't the role given to the US' First Lady strange in the first place?
> How does being married to someone qualify you to do have a role in his professional life?
> "I'm sorry, the surgeon who was supposed to operate on you is sick, but his wife will stand in for him. Yeah, she's a farmer, but most important, she's the surgeon's wife, so don't you worry!"
> So just to say that it makes sense to just call Mrs Tchatcher's husband, "Mr Thatcher", Mrs Merkel's husband, "Mr Sauer" (I had to look this one up)...
> Why do we even need to talk about them actually?
> 
> Agreed


The President's or Vice President's wife (in the US) has traditionally been obliged to take on some social duties.  It's not the equivalent of a surgeon's farmer husband standing in for the surgeon in the operating room if the surgeon is ill.  The President's wife doesn't stand in for him in cabinet meetings, appoint judges, or veto or approve legislation.  Socially, she is charming to visitors at fancy dinners, decorates the White House for Christmas, visits hospitals and such.

But some wives of presidents have taken a larger role than that.  Eleanor Roosevelt was a political activist before FDR became president, and she did a lot for civil rights and African-Americans, among other things, as First Lady.  She was basically born a generation too soon; if she were born 20 years later, she might have been a senator.

Hillary Clinton and Michelle Obama performed social functions, but they are also lawyers who graduated from prestigious law schools (Yale and Harvard respectively).  They both had careers before their husbands became President, and they were advocates for various social and political issues when they lived in the White House.  They probably would have done that even if their husbands were senators or governors. Jill Biden has a doctorate and is a professor at a community college; she taught while her husband was VP,  and she has said that she will continue to teach after her husband takes office as President.

I suppose that the title of First Lady is a little old-fashioned, and it will become more old-fashioned the more presidents have wives who have careers and are leaders in their own right.  One reason we talk about them is because they are visible, since their husbands are.  It will be interesting to see how visible Jill Biden is.


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## Welsh_Sion

From today's Independent newspaper. (UK-based).

Who Is Kamala Harris’ husband: Meet Douglas Emhoff, the lawyer who will be America’s first Second Gentleman (msn.com)


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## zaffy

Welsh_Sion said:


> From today's Independent newspaper. (UK-based).
> 
> Who Is Kamala Harris’ husband: Meet Douglas Emhoff, the lawyer who will be America’s first Second Gentleman (msn.com)



"American's first Second Gentelman"   ... only if the Supreme Court confirms Biden's victory


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## Aliph

Roxxxannne said:


> I suppose that the title of First Lady is a little old-fashioned, and it will become more old-fashioned the more presidents have wives who have careers and are leaders in their own right.  One reason we talk about them is because they are visible, since their husbands are.  It will be interesting to see how visible Jill Biden is.


Jill Biden announced that she would like to go on in her activity as a teacher. She has a PhD in social sciences.

In the TV series “Madam secretary” where the protagonist later on becomes “Madam President”, her husband is called “ First husband” and sometimes “First gentleman” if I’m not mistaken.


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## Mrs JJJ

Outsider said:


> On the contrary, it would be the perfect opportunity to introduce the new term "First Partner"!



I like this. I'm sure that suitable terms will be adopted, anyway. Back in the fifties, a friend of my mother's became the mayoress of a London suburb. Not because she was married to the mayor. Her widowed mother-in-law became the mayor and chose our friend to be her sidekick.  I wish now that she had chosen her son, so that I might have provided a more helpful precedent.


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## Michael Zwingli

If it were me, I would certainly style myself as the "First Lord"...🤩


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