# I was sold.



## hamzasid

Hi,

If بِعْتُ is I sold, what is "I was sold"? بُعْتُ?
The same question about "I was feared": is it خُفْتُ?


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## Romeel

بِعْتُ I sold
خِفْتُ I got scared


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## Ali Smith

You didn't answer his question.

I think "I was sold." is بُعْتُ and "I was feared." is خُفْتُ.


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> You didn't answer his question.
> 
> I think "I was sold." is بُعْتُ and "I was feared." is خُفْتُ.


I don't think he meant "I was sold" nor "I was feared"? Because he wrote خفت و بعت

Does he?!!

I was sold = لقد تم بيعي
I was (a)feared = لقد كنت خائفا


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## Ali Smith

Romeel: And what is the meaning of بُعْتُ and خُفْتُ?


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## Sadda7

hamzasid said:


> Hi,
> 
> If بِعْتُ is I sold, what is "I was sold"? بُعْتُ?
> The same question about "I was feared": is it خُفْتُ?


To avoid confusion betwen passive and active voice the harakah of first letter is changed, so قُمتُ and سُمتُ in the passive voice become قِمتُ and سِمتُ.

From الموجز في قواعد اللغة العربية:


> *الأجوف *المبني للمجهول إذا أُسند إلى ضمير رفع متحرك غيَّرنا حركة فائه إلى الضم إن كانت مكسورة في المعلوم، وإلى الكسر إن كانت مضمومة في المعلوم:
> 
> فنقول في سامني خالد ظلمًا: *سِمْتُ *ظلمًا «لأن المعلوم منها *سُمْت*» بالضم وفي باعني سليم للعدو: *بُعْتُ *للعدو «لأن المعلوم منها *بِعْت*» بالكسر وذلك حَذَرَ الالتباس بين المعلوم والمجهول فإذا قلتُ «بِعت وسُمت» فأنا البائع والسائم، وإذا قلتُ «بُعْتُ وسِمت» فأنا المَبيع والمَسُوم.


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> Romeel: And what is the meaning of بُعْتُ and خُفْتُ?


الصحيح بِعت وخِفت بالكسر لكن بعض العرب تقول بُعت وخُفت

The correct way is to write it as بِعت and خِفت with Kasrah, but some Arabs say بُعت and خُفت which has the same meaning as بِعت and خِفت

بِعْتُ / بُعت I sold
خِفْتُ  / خُفت  I got scared


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## Ali Smith

Romeel: You seem not to have understand the question. The OP's question was: what is the passive (المجهول) of بِعْتُ and خِفْتُ?


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> To avoid confusion betwen passive and active voice the harakah of first letter is changed, so قُمتُ and سُمتُ in the passive voice become قِمتُ and سِمتُ.


Actually your post made me more confused!!! How will قمت be passive usage?!

Do you mean like?
ضَربتُ
ضُربتُ


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> Romeel: You seem not to have understand the question. The OP's question was: what is the passive (المجهول) of بِعْتُ and خِفْتُ?


Do you mean like?
ضَربتُ
ضُربتُ

Or  like  بيع


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## Ali Smith

Yes, that's exactly what I mean.

بَاعَ > بِيْعَ
قَالَ > قِيْلَ
بِعْتُ > بُعْتُ
خِفْتُ > خُفْتُ


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## Romeel

Then I don't know the answer...


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## fenakhay

The active and passive forms are identical in that instance.

بِعت = I sold/I was sold.


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## Romeel

Either I don't know Arabic or English, or maybe both 

Do you guys mean something like: A book was sold to me= بيع لي كتابٌ = بُعتُ كتابا

Because _I was sold_ = تم بيعي it means _I have been sold as a salve_!!!

Also you will never see بُعتُ neither in speech nor in writing,  except very, very rarely, or in Grammar books

Arabs don't use such words


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## djara

fenakhay said:


> بِعت = I sold/I was sold.


Could please provide documented examples of بعت = I was sold?

Also, is there a difference between:
1- I was sold an orange (an orange was sold to me)
2- I was sold as a slave


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## Romeel

Grammar has been made to facilitate learning and not complicate people! When some brothers/sisters wants to learn something  like بُعتُ or خُفتُ  , he is taking a wrong learning path that will not benefit him. This maybe not be his fault but the fault of his teacher or the institution that teaches him! They want him to learn words that he will not say and will not hear/read from the Arabs as long as he lives!

There is a difference between learning ضُربتُ and wanting to learn بُعتُ
ضُربتُ  does not cause confusion between it and the active verb ضَربتُ
While بُعتُ will cause confusion because it cannot be distinguished from the active verb  بِعتُ (I sold), so why I use it and I have another understandable and smooth alternatives such as بيع لي

Then in some grammar books he says, "Reverse the Dummah to Kasrah between the active and the passive form, or reverse the Kasrah to Dummah !!" So I sold بِعتُ , make it بُعتُ , and I said قُلتُ, make it قِلتُ!!
Useless grammar just to complicate students and make language difficult.

And we don't know why they want to teach them words that make them hate the language and do not benefit them at all when there are alternatives?!


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## Sadda7

Romeel said:


> Grammar has been made to facilitate learning and not complicate people! When some brothers/sisters wants to learn something like بُعتُ or خُفتُ , he is taking a wrong learning path that will not benefit him. This maybe not be his fault but the fault of his teacher or the institution that teaches him! They want him to learn words that he will not say and will not hear/read from the Arabs as long as he lives!


This is a confusing issue and it is not exclusive to non-Arabs learning the language. He didn't ask for an alternative or a learning advice so we should stick to the question and give an answer if one knows, some non-Arabs learn the language through religious texts and they frequently deal with classical Arabic, which is why their questions are of this nature. 



Romeel said:


> Useless grammar just to complicate students and make language difficult.
> 
> And we don't know why they want to teach them words that make them hate the language and do not benefit them at all when there are alternatives?!


It is not useless grammar and you shouldn't generalize based on this specific case.


Romeel said:


> While بُعتُ will cause confusion because it cannot be distinguished from the active verb بِعتُ


Take a look here and read carefully.


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> This is a confusing issue and it is not exclusive to non-Arabs learning the language. He didn't ask for an alternative or a learning advice so we should stick to the question and give an answer if one knows, some non-Arabs learn the language through religious texts and they frequently deal with classical Arabic, which is why their questions are of this nature.
> 
> 
> It is not useless grammar and you shouldn't generalize based on this specific case.


I didn't generalize any thing 'am talking about this specific rule!!

Okay, tell me about one ancient text (religious or poetic) that contains the word خُفتُ used in the passive form?
How many times you personally used that word?



Sadda7 said:


> Take a look here and read carefully.


I read it before I wrote my last post


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## Sadda7

Romeel said:


> Okay, tell me about one ancient text (religious or poetic) that contains the word خُفتُ used in the passive form?
> How many times you personally used that word?


The rules are to specifiy how to handle such verbs (الأفعال معلة العين) in a similar situation, it doesn't matter if that specific one is used or not or what I personally use, it is put as an example so that we can learn how to deal with similar verbs like (لام, هاب, قام, قاد, داس, سام...).

And remember he didn't request a counsel, an alternative wording or what we think or feel about it.


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## djara

Sadda7 said:


> it doesn't matter if that specific one is used or not or what I personally use,


Do you mean to say that a grammatical rule could exist without ever being used? To my knowledge, grammar is a description of how language is, and has been, used. No grammatical rule should exist outside usage. If no major author, scholar, poet, etc. has ever complied with this "rule", then it should be dropped.


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## Sadda7

djara said:


> Do you mean to say that a grammatical rule could exist without ever being used?


Of course not, I meant by "one" the verb. The solution offered by grammarians to the active\passive of معل العين is to avoid ambiguity (أمن اللبس).


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## Mahaodeh

hamzasid said:


> Hi,
> 
> If بِعْتُ is I sold, what is "I was sold"? بُعْتُ?
> The same question about "I was feared": is it خُفْتُ?


note that خاف is intransitive and does not take a مفعول به so theoretically it shouldn’t become in the passive because then there would be no نائب فاعل. However, in practice some intransitive verbs can be مبني للمجهول similar to قيم وجُلِس. Since there is no مفعول به to become نائب فاعل, one must be added using حرف جر, hence the sentence would be خِيف مني.

In the case of باع, it’s a transitive verb and thus can be in the passive voice, which is بيع. However, I’m not so sure of how to add ضمير الرفع here. If we use a different verb, say كَتَبَ, the active voice is كَتَبَني فلانٌ, and the passive would be كُتِبْتُ. Similarly, in theory it should be بِيْعْتُ, but then you would have التقاء الساكنين because when add التاء the verb would be مبني على السكون but the ياء is already ساكنة so this is not allowed. I don’t know how this would be, perhaps it could be returned to the original and be بُيِعْتُ but I don’t know if this is allowed.

Alternatively you can use the verb شَرَى to avoid this as it would be شُرِيْتُ.


hamzasid said:


> is it خُفْتُ?


No, while this verb is used in dialects, it’s the active not the passive voice.

Perhaps you are confusing the passive of الأفعال المجردة with the passive of الأفعال المزيدة?


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## Romeel

As I said this way of talking is not understood by many Arabs because it's never used. I was confused and now Maha Odah.



Mahaodeh said:


> note that خاف is intransitive and does not take a مفعول به so theoretically it shouldn’t become in the passive because then there would be no نائب فاعل. However, in practice some intransitive verbs can be مبني للمجهول similar to قيم وجُلِس. Since there is no مفعول به to become نائب فاعل, one must be added using حرف جر, hence the sentence would be خِيف مني.


I think he meant أخفت/ تم إخافتي



Mahaodeh said:


> In the case of باع, it’s a transitive verb and thus can be in the passive voice, which is بيع. However, I’m not so sure of how to add ضمير الرفع here. If we use a different verb, say كَتَبَ, the active voice is كَتَبَني فلانٌ, and the passive would be كُتِبْتُ. Similarly, in theory it should be بِيْعْتُ, but then you would have التقاء الساكنين because when add التاء the verb would be مبني على السكون but the ياء is already ساكنة so this is not allowed. I don’t know how this would be, perhaps it could be returned to the original and be بُيِعْتُ but I don’t know if this is allowed.


If you use the verb ضرب for explaining it would better


Mahaodeh said:


> Alternatively you can use the verb شَرَى to avoid this as it would be شُرِيْتُ.



Another clear and unambiguous option


Mahaodeh said:


> No, while this verb is used in dialects, it’s the active not the passive voice.


He want the passive form, it is explained in the Grammar books but actually never used. I asked Sada7 to tell me Just one sentence (religious or poetic) that contains the word خُفتُ and used in passive, but no answer!


Mahaodeh said:


> Perhaps you are confusing the passive of الأفعال المجردة with the passive of الأفعال المزيدة?


Another confusion


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## Ali Smith

Okay, what about قَادَ 'He led.'? Its passive would be قِيْدَ 'He was led.', right?

If so, قُدْتُ would be "I led.". How would you say "I was led."? قِدْتُ?


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## Romeel

Ali Smith said:


> Okay, what about قَادَ 'He led.'? Its passive would be قِيْدَ 'He was led.', right?


Yes


Ali Smith said:


> If so, قُدْتُ would be "I led.". How would you say "I was led."? قِدْتُ?


I think: أُقدتُ

Because أُقاد means I'm led by (not sure about this English phrase)


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## Mahaodeh

Sadda7 said:


> To avoid confusion betwen passive and active voice the harakah of first letter is changed, so قُمتُ and سُمتُ in the passive voice become قِمتُ and سِمتُ.
> 
> From الموجز في قواعد اللغة العربية:


Sorry I did not notice this until after I posted, by then there had been replies to it so I could not delete it.

Next time perhaps I should read the whole thread before providing an answer ☺️


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## Sadda7

Mahaodeh said:


> note that خاف is intransitive and does not take a مفعول به so theoretically


It is transitive by itself or by a حرف, as seen in the Quran plentifully:


> فَلَا تَخَافُوهُمۡ وَخَافُونِ
> وَلَا يَخَافُونَ *لَوْمَةَ *لَائِمٍ
> یَخَافُونَ *ٱلۡعَذَابَ *ٱلۡأَلِیمَ
> وَلِمَنۡ خَافَ *مَقَامَ*
> كَلَّا بَلْ لَا يَخَافُونَ *الْآخِرَةَ*



وفي معجم *الكليات *للكفوي:




ومعجم *المصباح المنير* للفيومي:






Mahaodeh said:


> No, while this verb is used in dialects, it’s the active not the passive voice.


In active it is خِفْتُ.

This is from a commentary book دليل السالك إلى ألفية ابن مالك by الفوزان, and to summarize this issue and especially for @Romeel:

عند البيت:

*واكْسِرْ أو اشْمِمْ فا ثُلاثِيٍّ أُعِلّْ … عَيْنًا وضَمٌ جا كَـ(بُوعَ) فاحْتُمِلْ*

يقول الشارح أنه عند بناء معل العين للمجهول جاز فيه ثلاثة أوجه:

إخلاص الكسر (وَ*قِیلَ* یَـٰۤأَرۡضُ ٱبۡلَعِی مَاۤءَكِ وَیَـٰسَمَاۤءُ أَقۡلِعِی وَ*غِیضَ* ٱلۡمَاۤءُ)

وإخلاص الضم (ليْتَ وهل يَنفعُ شيئا ليتُ … ليتَ شبابا *بُوعَ* فاشتريتُ)

والإشمام معلوم.

والمهم هنا ألا يقع لَبْس في إبلاغ الكلام للسامع, يقول "وجواز الأوجه الثلاثة مشروط *بألا يحصل لَبْس* وإلا وجب *العدول عنه* إلا ضبط آخر *لا لبس فيه*" اتباعا لبيت ابن مالك الآتي:
وإن بشَكلٍ خِيفَ *لَبسٌ* يُجتَنَب وما لِـ(باعَ) قَد يُرى لِنَحوِ حَبّ

وأين يحصل اللبس؟ يجيب الشارح "عند بناء الفعل معل العين لما لم يسمَّ فاعله (المجهول) ثم أسند إلى ضمير تكلمٍ أو خطاب حصل لبسٌ بينه وبين الفعل المبني للمعلوم المسند لنفس الضمائر" فاللبس في الكلام محذور عند علماء اللغة. ثم مضى وضرب أمثلة ب(ساد) و(باع).

هذا كتاب لشارح معاصر, ونفس الكلام في كتب الشرح القديمة مثل كتاب شرح ابن الناظم على ألفية أبيه ابن مالك يقول:


> وقد يعرض بالكسر أو بالضم *التباس *فعل المفعول بفعل الفاعل، فيجب حينئذ الإشمام، أو *إخلاص الضمة* في نحو: *خفت*، مقصودًا به خُشيت، *والإشمام*، أو *إخلاص الكسر* في نحو: طلت، مقصود به غلبت في المطاولة.



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Romeel said:


> I think: أُقدتُ


No, أقاد is مزيد and قاد is مجرد and they are not the same, أقاد means:


*أَقَادَ *المَقْتُولَ وَنَحْوَهُ: اقْتَصَّ لَهُ مِنَ الجَانِي.

*وأقاده *خيلاً: أعطَاهُ إِيَّاهَا يَــقُودهَا.

And قَاد means:


*قَادَ *الأُمُورَ: سَاسَهَا وَتَوَلَّى أَمْرَهَا.

*قَادَ *الدَّابَّةَ وَنَحْوَهَا: جَذَبَهَا بِزِمَامِهَا إِلَىٰ الأَمَامِ.

*قَادَهُ *إِلَىٰ الأَمْرِ: دَعَاهُ وَأَرْشَدَهُ.


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> No, أقاد is مزيد and قاد is مجرد and they are not the same, أقاد means:
> 
> 
> *أَقَادَ *المَقْتُولَ وَنَحْوَهُ: اقْتَصَّ لَهُ مِنَ الجَانِي.
> *وأقاده *خيلاً: أعطَاهُ إِيَّاهَا يَــقُودهَا.
> 
> And قَاد means:
> 
> 
> *قَادَ *الأُمُورَ: سَاسَهَا وَتَوَلَّى أَمْرَهَا.
> *قَادَ *الدَّابَّةَ وَنَحْوَهَا: جَذَبَهَا بِزِمَامِهَا إِلَىٰ الأَمَامِ.
> *قَادَهُ *إِلَىٰ الأَمْرِ: دَعَاهُ وَأَرْشَدَهُ.


بارك الله فيك هما اثنتان
There are Two أقاد
أقاد meaning lead
أقاد meaning Punishment was imposed on him

قاد من القيادة والرئاسة
َوقاد من القَوَد، أقاد أي اقتصّ منه

مثل: يُقادُ كلأعمى


عَلَى أَنها، إذْ رَأَتْني *أُقادُ*، ... قالتْ بِمَا قَدْ أَراهُ بَصِيرا


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## Sadda7

Romeel said:


> رَأَتْني *أُقادُ*


هنا قاد يُقاد أُقاد, كقال يُقال أُقال.


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> هنا قاد يُقاد أُقاد, كقال يُقال أُقال.


لم أفهم وجه الاعتراض عندك عندما قلت لا

ألا ترى أن I was led = أقدتُ

أقدتُ الرجل سيارة = I gave him a car to drive
أقدت نفسي = I punish myself


مع أن جميع هذه الجمل لن أستخدمها للتعبير عن ذلك بل سأقول
Although all these sentences I will not use to express it, because they are not understood by most people, but I will say
أعطيت الرجل سيارة ليقودها
اقتصصت من نفسي


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## Sadda7

Romeel said:


> لم أفهم وجه الاعتراض عندك عندما قلت لا


@Ali Smith asked about قُدتُ which is first person singular in active how it would be in the passive, you answered with أقدت which is wrong and it is from أقاد not قاد. It would be قِدْتُ and please see again #27



Romeel said:


> مع أن جميع هذه الجمل لن أستخدمها للتعبير عن ذلك بل سأقول


What you would use personally is irrelevant to the main question.


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> @Ali Smith asked about قُدتُ which is first person singular in active how it would be in the passive, you answered with أقدت which is wrong and it is from أقاد not قاد. It would be قِدْتُ and please see again #27




Ali knows قُدتُ , so why is he ask about it?! I think he wants to commit us to this rule with a word for which there is no alternative to it like بُعتُ



Sadda7 said:


> What you would use personally is irrelevant to the main question.


Maybe


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## Sadda7

I think @Ali Smith is aware of this topic according to his answers, maybe he wants you to notice the لبس that is caused by the those verbs when turned to passive voice.


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## Romeel

Sadda7 said:


> I think @Ali Smith is aware of this topic according to his answers, maybe he wants you to notice the لبس that is caused by the those verbs when turned to passive voice.


This is also possible...
Through my experience with Ali, he is a smart man and has extensive information about Arabic (and other languages too) and always when he asks the reader thinks that his question is easy to answer, but often his questions are difficult!!


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## Mahaodeh

Sadda7 said:


> هنا قاد يُقاد أُقاد, كقال يُقال أُقا
> 
> 
> Sadda7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It is transitive by itself or by a حرف, as seen in the Quran plentifully:
> 
> 
> وفي معجم *الكليات *للكفوي:
> View attachment 71405
> ومعجم *المصباح المنير* للفيومي:
> View attachment 71406
> 
> 
> In active it is خِفْتُ.
> 
> This is from a commentary book دليل السالك إلى ألفية ابن مالك by الفوزان, and to summarize this issue and especially for @Romeel:
> 
> عند البيت:
> 
> *واكْسِرْ أو اشْمِمْ فا ثُلاثِيٍّ أُعِلّْ … عَيْنًا وضَمٌ جا كَـ(بُوعَ) فاحْتُمِلْ*
> 
> يقول الشارح أنه عند بناء معل العين للمجهول جاز فيه ثلاثة أوجه:
> 
> إخلاص الكسر (وَ*قِیلَ* یَـٰۤأَرۡضُ ٱبۡلَعِی مَاۤءَكِ وَیَـٰسَمَاۤءُ أَقۡلِعِی وَ*غِیضَ* ٱلۡمَاۤءُ)
> 
> وإخلاص الضم (ليْتَ وهل يَنفعُ شيئا ليتُ … ليتَ شبابا *بُوعَ* فاشتريتُ)
> 
> والإشمام معلوم.
> 
> والمهم هنا ألا يقع لَبْس في إبلاغ الكلام للسامع, يقول "وجواز الأوجه الثلاثة مشروط *بألا يحصل لَبْس* وإلا وجب *العدول عنه* إلا ضبط آخر *لا لبس فيه*" اتباعا لبيت ابن مالك الآتي:
> وإن بشَكلٍ خِيفَ *لَبسٌ* يُجتَنَب وما لِـ(باعَ) قَد يُرى لِنَحوِ حَبّ
> 
> وأين يحصل اللبس؟ يجيب الشارح "عند بناء الفعل معل العين لما لم يسمَّ فاعله (المجهول) ثم أسند إلى ضمير تكلمٍ أو خطاب حصل لبسٌ بينه وبين الفعل المبني للمعلوم المسند لنفس الضمائر" فاللبس في الكلام محذور عند علماء اللغة. ثم مضى وضرب أمثلة ب(ساد) و(باع).
> 
> هذا كتاب لشارح معاصر, ونفس الكلام في كتب الشرح القديمة مثل كتاب شرح ابن الناظم على ألفية أبيه ابن مالك يقول:
> 
> 
> 
> -----
> 
> No, أقاد is مزيد and قاد is مجرد and they are not the same, أقاد means:
> 
> 
> *أَقَادَ *المَقْتُولَ وَنَحْوَهُ: اقْتَصَّ لَهُ مِنَ الجَانِي.
> *وأقاده *خيلاً: أعطَاهُ إِيَّاهَا يَــقُودهَا.
> 
> And قَاد means:
> 
> 
> *قَادَ *الأُمُورَ: سَاسَهَا وَتَوَلَّى أَمْرَهَا.
> *قَادَ *الدَّابَّةَ وَنَحْوَهَا: جَذَبَهَا بِزِمَامِهَا إِلَىٰ الأَمَامِ.
> *قَادَهُ *إِلَىٰ الأَمْرِ: دَعَاهُ وَأَرْشَدَهُ.
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Yes, I’m sorry, I replied before reading all your posts - I later read them all and realized that my post was obsolete.

BTW, you are right about خاف, I missed that.


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