# jell-o / jelly / gelatin  [AE / BE]



## eli7

Greetings,
I am looking for the difference beween American and British vocabularies.
In this site: http://projectbritain.com/americanbritish/food.html
I found that "jelly" is british and "jell-o" is American, but I cannot find the word "jell-o" in any dictionary. Why is that? Is "jelly" both used in American and British accent?


Jelly (a dessert in the UK)​Jell-o (flavoured gelatin)​


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## Florentia52

As your source explains, Jell-o is a flavored gelatin. "Jell-o" is a brand name and thus would not be found in a conventional dictionary.

"Jelly" is used in both BE and AE to refer to a fruit preserve.


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## eli7

Thank you


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## eli7

Sorry, I have got a question.
Then if jelly is both American and British, why in this dictionary it is written "British" in front of it? That's why I would be confused.


> [countable/uncountable] *British* a soft sweet food made from fruit juice, sugar, and gelatine that you can see through and that shakes when you touch it


http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/jelly


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## Florentia52

Because the flavored gelatin dessert is called "jelly" in Great Britain, but not in the U.S., where we call it "Jell-o."

Both AE and BE do use the word "jelly," but in the U.S. it only refers to fruit preserves, not the gelatin dessert.


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## JustKate

The topic of "sweet stuff to spread on toast" is a complicated one for Americans because we have lots of different names for different compounds. _Jelly_ is used for a very specific thing in AmE, and it's not what those who speak BE use it for. We call the gelatin dessert _Jell-o_ most of the time even though that's a trademarked name, and if we for some reason can't use the trademarked name, we say _gelatin_.


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## eli7

I see. Thanks all, but what I want to do is to find the American equivalent for the word "jelly", and I don't know if it is "jelly" again or "jell-o".
Whould anyone please just tell me the answer of this question? because I think I am getting more confused with those answers.


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## JustKate

eli7 said:


> I see. Thanks all, but what I want to do is to find the American equivalent for the word "jelly", and I don't know if it is "jelly" again or "jell-o".
> Whould anyone please just tell me the answer of this question? because I think I am getting more confused with those answers.


What type of product are you looking for a name for? The gelatin dessert or the sweet stuff we spread on toast? If it's the gelatin dessert, we call it "Jell-o" - which is a trademarked name but we use in generically quite often anyway. If we need to avoid using the trademarked name, we call it "gelatin." We never call the gelatin dessert "jelly."


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## eli7

Actually I have a list of words in British, and I have to write the American equivalents for them.
I don't know which one is meant. As a native speaker, when you hear "jelly" what would you think of as the american equivalent? Would "jelly"again be correct?


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## PaulQ

In BE, there is *marmalade, jam, conserve, jelly (jam), and jelly*. They are all quite different:

*Marmalade *is specifically made with citrus fruits (orange, lemon, lime, grapefruit, etc.)
*Jam *is both a generic and a specific term:
generically, *jam *is anything that is made from fruit (other than citrus) and is spread on bread and toast.
Specifically, *jam *is the thing you spread on bread and toast and has pieces or small particles of the actual fruit in it.
*Conserve *is jam made with a very high percentage of the actual fruit.
*Jelly, *as in (raspberry jelly, orange jelly, strawberry jelly) is jam from any fruit (including citrus) from which the actual pieces/bits of fruit have been removed.

All the above are sold in jars ready for consumption.

*Jelly *is a mixture of fruit, and/or fruit juice, or fruit flavours and gelatin. It is sold unprepared. To prepare it, you pour hot water over either a powder or a block of concentrated, flavoured gelatin, pour into a basin or mould and allow to cool. It is eaten on its own or with fruit/ice-cream, etc. as a desert.

Jam: http://richardson-farms.com/store/i...Z.jpg?osCsid=c26f130cee67bb79caf2b89867a70b1f

Jelly: http://goodtoknow.media.ipcdigital.co.uk/111/000007296/58a9_orh220w334/strawberry-jelly.jpg


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## JustKate

eli7 said:


> Actually I have a list of words in British, and I have to write the American equivalents for them.
> I don't know which one is meant. As a native speaker, when you hear "jelly" what would you think of as the american equivalent? Would "jelly"again be correct?


I am going to need to have you clarify. (Sorry - *I'm* getting confused now. ) 

Are you asking what the word _jelly_ means to me as an AmE speaker? Or are you asking what word AmE speakers use to refer to the stuff that BE speakers call _jelly_?


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## eli7

The second one


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## Florentia52

In AE, we use the same words for the fruit-based substance we spread on toast as PaulQ has listed: marmalade, jam, preserve(s), and jelly.

As has been noted several times, AE does not use "jelly" to refer to a gelatin dessert.

Thus, as a native AE speaker, if I hear a BE speaker refer to "jelly," I need to listen to the context to determine what product is meant. If it is being spread on toast, I will call it "jelly." If it is wiggly and being served up for dessert, I will call it "Jell-o."


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## eli7

PaulQ said:


> *Jelly *is a mixture of fruit, and/or fruit juice, or fruit flavours and gelatin. It is sold unprepared. To prepare it, you pour hot water over either a powder or a block of concentrated, flavoured gelatin, pour into a basin or mould and allow to cool. It is eaten on its own or with fruit/ice-cream, etc. as a desert.



Thank you Paul for your complete explanation.
This one is the word I need its equivalent. Then what is the AE equivalent for this?


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## Florentia52

I don't understand exactly what's confusing you at this point, but let's try it again.

A BE speaker uses "jelly" to refer to two things:

(1) A gelatin dessert

(2) A fruit jam from which the bits of fruit have been removed.

An AE speaker refers to the gelatin dessert (1) as "Jell-o." He or she refers to the fruit jam (2) as "jelly."

____

Edited to respond to intervening post: The problem is that you are being asked to provide an AE equivalent for a BE term that has two meanings. The answer could be either "jelly," which makes it an unlikely test question, or "Jell-o."


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## JustKate

eli7 said:


> That's what makes me confused.
> You mean that something which is called jelly in BE is a gelatin dessert, but In AE jelly is not a gelatine dessert? or you would never use the word jelly and would use jam, marmalade and so on instead?


That is correct. (Sorry but it's true! ) In AmE, _jelly_ is not a gelatin dessert. In AmE, _jelly_ is one of the many different fruit-based spreads that are used on bread. We have others besides those listed by Paul, actually - we do like our sweet fruit spreads here in the USA, and we have a variety of them. What BE speakers call _jelly_, we call _Jell-o_ or _gelatin_.


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## eli7

Florentia52 said:


> I don't understand exactly what's confusing you at this point, but let's try it again.
> 
> A BE speaker uses "jelly" to refer to two things:
> 
> (1) A gelatin dessert
> 
> (2) A fruit jam from which the bits of fruit have been removed.
> 
> An AE speaker refers to the gelatin dessert (1) as "Jell-o." He or she refers to the fruit jam (2) as "jelly."


I think I got it now. According to thread 14, which I think makes myself more clear, I think the correct equivalent for jelly is jell-o in AE.
Am I right?


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## JustKate

eli7 said:


> I think I got it now. According to thread 14, which I think makes myself more clear, I think the correct equivalent for jelly is jell-o in AE.
> Am I right?


Yes. _Jell-o_ (it should be capped because it is a trademarked name, even though we use it generically) or just _gelatin_.


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## PaulQ

BE Jelly = AE Jell-o = http://goodtoknow.media.ipcdigital.c...erry-jelly.jpg


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## eli7

Thanks a million all. I really appreciate your help


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## Miss Julie

PaulQ said:


> BE Jelly = AE Jell-o = http://goodtoknow.media.ipcdigital.c...erry-jelly.jpg



Only if it's the Jell-O brand. Otherwise, it's gelatin, like Kate said.


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## eli7

Gelatin. 
Ok thanks a lot all


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## JustKate

Miss Julie said:


> Only if it's the Jell-O brand. Otherwise, it's gelatin, like Kate said.


Technically, yes. But it's very, very common for AmE speakers to use the word _Jell-o_ generically, even though it's a trademarked brand name, particularly in casual conversation. We generally use _gelatin_, really, only if we have to be careful for some reason. For example, if I were publishing a recipe in a magazine, I'd use the word _gelatin_. But if I were just talking about the recipe with my sister, I'd say _Jell-o_. I think this is true for most AmE speakers.


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## eli7

So I think jell-o is more informal, and gelatin is safer to be used!
I choose the word gelatin. Is it a good choice?


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## Miss Julie

JustKate said:


> Technically, yes. But it's very, very common for AmE speakers to use the word _Jell-o_ generically, even though it's a trademarked brand name, particularly in casual conversation. We generally use _gelatin_, really, only if we have to be careful for some reason. For example, if I were publishing a recipe in a magazine, I'd use the word _gelatin_. But if I were just talking about the recipe with my sister, I'd say _Jell-o_. I think this is true for most AmE speakers.



Right, like saying "Kleenex" even if you're using another brand of facial tissue. I should have remembered that...


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## RM1(SS)

To put it all togther in one post:


PaulQ said:


> In BE, there is *marmalade, jam, conserve, jelly (jam), and jelly*. They are all quite different:
> 
> *1)* *Marmalade *is specifically made with citrus fruits (orange, lemon, lime, grapefruit, etc.)
> *Jam *is both a generic and a specific term:
> *2)* generically, *jam *is anything that is made from fruit (other than citrus) and is spread on bread and toast.
> *3)* Specifically, *jam *is the thing you spread on bread and toast and has pieces or small particles of the actual fruit in it.
> *4)* *Conserve *is jam made with a very high percentage of the actual fruit.
> *5)* *Jelly, *as in (raspberry jelly, orange jelly, strawberry jelly) is jam from any fruit (including citrus) from which the actual pieces/bits of fruit have been removed.
> 
> All the above are sold in jars ready for consumption.
> 
> *6)* *Jelly *is a mixture of fruit, and/or fruit juice, or fruit flavours and gelatin. It is sold unprepared. To prepare it, you pour hot water over either a powder or a block of concentrated, flavoured gelatin, pour into a basin or mould and allow to cool. It is eaten on its own or with fruit/ice-cream, etc. as a desert.


1) BE _marmalade_ = AE _marmalade_ (I would add that it always has bits of chopped peel in it)
2) BE _jam_ = AE _jam_
3) BE _jam_ = AE _jam_
4) BE _conserve_ = AE _preserves_
5) BE _jelly_ = AE _jelly_
6) BE _jelly_ = AE _Jell-o_ (trademarked name used as generic term) or _gelatin_


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## PaulQ

Many thanks: I was tempted to use "preserve" in 4) BE _conserve_ = AE _preserves_ I think _preserve _is also used in BE but popular opinion in the house went against me.


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## eli7

Thank you all 
Very good outline and conclusion RM1. Thanks.


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## ewie

RM1(SS) said:


> 1) BE _marmalade_ = AE _marmalade_ (I would add that it always has bits of chopped peel in it)


(Unless it's 'shredless')


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## JulianStuart

For completeness and clarity: For those learning about the AE term Jell-o, and the use as a general description of a gelatin based dessert called jelly in BE, you should be aware that not all Jell-o products are gelatine - they make other things too that they call pudding-mousse-desserts


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## PaulQ

ewie said:


> (Unless it's 'shredless')


Isn't that orange *jelly *marmalade?


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## pob14

For even more completeness and less clarity, the O in Jell-O is capitalized, as I believe only Miss Julie has done correctly.


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## JustKate

pob14 said:


> For even more completeness and less clarity, the O in Jell-O is capitalized, as I believe only Miss Julie has done correctly.



 To be even more "complete," Kraft wants us to write it in all caps: JELL-O. And that's just not going to happen.


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## pob14

I have no idea what Kraft wants.  I just had never seen it written with both the hyphen and a small O; it's either been "jello" (generally) or "Jell-O" (the Kraft product).

Edit: I do see from Kraft's website that they spell it with all caps.  Well, what do you know!


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## bennymix

If I may toss  my penny into the great jello debates:

_*Paul Q, summarizing: 6)* *Jelly *[BE] is a mixture of  fruit, and/or fruit juice, or fruit flavours and gelatin. It is sold  unprepared. To prepare it, you pour hot water over either a powder or a  block of concentrated, flavoured gelatin, pour into a basin or mould and  allow to cool. It is eaten on its own or with fruit/ice-cream, etc. as a  desert._

This is said to be Jello or Jell-O, in AE.    The preparation part really fits the 1950s more than the present.   I often buy Jello for the kids, already made, in little cartons or plastic containers.  In that sense, its manner of being packaged differs only slightly from the fruit jellies, which are usually in bottle.

TO BE NOTED:  The capital is often dropped (jello).  I know that Kraft, and Kleenex and Xerox are proud guardians of their creations and HATE the genericization of their words;   they no doubt pressure the dictionary makers to say "trade mark" etc.   But you can't halt these changes.


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## Chasint

Just to confirm

BE jam ---> AE jelly  [Preserve made by heating real fruit with sugar. It is then placed in jars and stored. Usually eaten by spreading on bread.]

BE jelly ---> AE Jell-O  [Fruit-flavoured dessert made by pouring boiling water onto small pieces of gelatin which dissolve. The mixture is then allowed to cool. Eaten with a spoon on its own or with trifle etc.]  EDITED to change 'blocks' to 'pieces'. See comments below.


_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

In my version of BE I would never call fruit preserve 'jelly' no matter how it was prepared or whether or not the bits of fruit had been removed. I would always say 'jam'.


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## bennymix

I have never seen the 'small blocks' even in the fifties.  The gelatin was in (flavored) granules, mixed with sugar granules.


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## Chasint

bennymix said:


> I have never seen the 'small blocks' even in the fifties.  The gelatin was in (flavored) granules, mixed with sugar granules.


Oh dear! I've edited my post.  

So you've never seen these? http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/bar-boss-avoids-jail-after-1247539


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## JustKate

pob14 said:


> I have no idea what Kraft wants.  I just had never seen it written with both the hyphen and a small O; it's either been "jello" (generally) or "Jell-O" (the Kraft product).
> 
> Edit: I do see from Kraft's website that they spell it with all caps.  Well, what do you know!



Yes, manufacturers try that sort of thing all the time in the hopes that those of us who edit publications will cater to them and use all caps, thereby making their brand names stand out from all the other text. My philosophy is: If you want your name written in all caps, buy an ad or get your own dang magazine. 

But _Jell-O_ is OK. I wouldn't mind that, and perhaps that's how I should have written it. I don't want to drag the thread any farther off topic so I won't provide examples, but there are brand names that don't cap the letter after a hyphen, and I happen to have written an article on one of them just a couple of weeks ago, which is why I didn't cap the "o" this time.


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## bennymix

I see, biffo, but note the 'blocks' are the end result.   They did not have boiling water poured over.
You can make Jello in blocks, or cut it that way, in rings, etc.


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## Chasint

bennymix said:


> I see, biffo, but note the 'blocks' are the end result.   They did not have boiling water poured over.
> You can make Jello in blocks, or cut it that way, in rings, etc.


No. You buy the blocks in packets. Each block is approximately a one inch cube. They are made of solid gelatin that has been sweetened and flavoured with fruit. To make a jelly you dissolve them in boiling water and end up with this http://easyscienceexperiments.co.uk/a-jelly-good-glow


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## bennymix

Sorry, Biffo.  Re read the article.  The blocks are the end result, and we further know this because they contained vodka, added in the making process.   The blocks were at a buffet:
_
/The mum of two was stopped in Inverness on May 15 last year after  she’d been to a party. She failed a breath test but told police the  machine must be faulty because she had been drinking coke all night. 

__But Inverness Sheriff Court heard she’d had four or five jellies which were part of the buffet at the party in the city’s Portland Club.  Forbes, of Beauly, Easter Ross, said she did not know they contained alcohol._/


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## JamesM

Miss Julie said:


> Right, like saying "Kleenex" even if you're using another brand of facial tissue. I should have remembered that...



Or the Brits saying "Hoovered" for vacuumed.


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## JamesM

Biffo said:


> No. You buy the blocks in packets. Each block is approximately a one inch cube. They are made of solid gelatin that has been sweetened and flavoured with fruit. To make a jelly you dissolve them in boiling water and end up with this http://easyscienceexperiments.co.uk/a-jelly-good-glow



Just as an aside, I don't think you can buy gelatin in cubes in the U.S.  I've only seen the powdered form here, whether Jell-O or some other brand (Royal, for example).


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## Chasint

bennymix said:


> Sorry, Biffo.  Re read the article.  The blocks are the end result, and we further know this because they contained vodka, added in the making process.   The blocks were at a buffet:
> _
> /The mum of two was stopped in Inverness on May 15 last year after  she’d been to a party. She failed a breath test but told police the  machine must be faulty because she had been drinking coke all night.
> 
> __But Inverness Sheriff Court heard she’d had four or five jellies which were part of the buffet at the party in the city’s Portland Club.  Forbes, of Beauly, Easter Ross, said she did not know they contained alcohol._/


Of course it is possible to eat the small blocks. I certainly did as a child - I'm sure the majority of British children have. They are very chewy. This does not invalidate my previous explanation.

It is not clear from the article how the jelly was served. I don't imagine the picture was taken at the actual event.

The concentrated blocks are called jelly when we buy them in a supermarket. The finished product is also called jelly when it has been made using boiling water.


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## JamesM

That's why I mentioned the U.S. experience, biffo.  I think the vast majority of Americans have never seen a dry cube of jelly/Jell-o powder.  It wouldn't even occur to me that it would come in that form.

So when we read "cubes" we picture these:

http://www.sophistimom.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jello1.jpg

(Of course, if she ate them as part of the buffet, they surely must have been prepared already.  They don't sell dry cubes of gelatin with vodka already in them, do they?)


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## Chasint

JamesM said:


> That's why I mentioned the U.S. experience, biffo.  I think the vast majority of Americans have never seen a dry cube of jelly/Jell-o powder.  It wouldn't even occur to me that it would come in that form.
> 
> So when we read "cubes" we picture these:
> 
> http://www.sophistimom.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/jello1.jpg
> 
> (Of course, if she ate them as part of the buffet, they surely must have been prepared already.  They don't sell dry cubes of gelatin with vodka already in them, do they?)


The cubes when purchased in a packet are not 'dry'. They have an almost rubbery consistency. They are chewy and very sweet. 

I have never made or eaten vodka jelly. I imagine that it is made by pouring boiling water onto the cubes and then adding vodka and stirring before the solution cools. The result is 'jelly' which, of course can then be cut into cubes if you wish! The final cubes would be mostly water/vodka. The original cubes would be mostly gelatine.


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## Chasint

Here's a recipe (UK)

1. Grab the bowl and put in the unmade jelly cubes and some hot water filling just to the top of the jelly cubes and the mix until all the cubes have dissolved in the bowl.
2.Pour the dissolved jelly and water in a jug and half fill the shot sized pots.
3.Fill the rest of the pots with 2 table spoons of vodka. 
4.Then put all the shot sized pots on a and put in the refrigerator to set overnight.
http://studentrecipes.com/recipes/party-foods/vodka-jelly-shots/

So you eat jelly shots. It seems they can be served in a glass!  There are many recipes on the web. Look at the UK ones and I'm sure they will mention cubes or tablets* of jelly.

_______________________________________________________________________

* A tablet  of jelly is simply a block of gelatin  cubes that haven't been separated.


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## JamesM

I am not doubting that gelatin comes in cubes in the UK.    I'm simply saying that it is outside the experience of people in the U.S.  As for the word "jelly", it has a distinct meaning in the U.S. It matches your description:

5) Jelly, as in (raspberry jelly, orange jelly, strawberry jelly) is jam from any fruit (including citrus) from which the actual pieces/bits of fruit have been removed.

But your description number 6 is only "Jell-O" or "Jello" or "jello" or occasionally "gelatin" here.  It is never called "jelly".  For us it would be confusing two very different products, sort of like calling aspic and jam both "jam".   It's simply a difference in the way we use the words.

Here they would only be called "Jell-O shots", never "jelly shots".  "Jelly shots" in AE brings to mind a weird mixture of strawberry jelly and vodka -- a slimy, runny mixture that wouldn't be very appealing.


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## Chasint

JamesM said:


> I am not doubting that gelatin comes in cubes in the UK.    I'm simply saying that it is outside the experience of people in the U.S.  As for the word "jelly", it has a distinct meaning in the U.S. It matches your description:
> 
> 5) Jelly, as in (raspberry jelly, orange jelly, strawberry jelly) is jam from any fruit (including citrus) from which the actual pieces/bits of fruit have been removed.
> 
> But your description number 6 is only "Jell-O" or "Jello" or "jello" or occasionally "gelatin" here.  It is never called "jelly".  For us it would be confusing two very different products, sort of like calling aspic and jam both "jam".   It's simply a difference in the way we use the words.
> 
> Here they would only be called "Jell-O shots", never "jelly shots".  "Jelly shots" in AE brings to mind a weird mixture of strawberry jelly and vodka -- a slimy, runny mixture that wouldn't be very appealing.


In my opinion, version 5 is incorrect in BE (it was PaulQ who said it, not I). 

Here is what Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers:: says

jelly /ˈdʒɛlɪ/
n ( pl -lies)
a fruit-flavoured clear dessert set with gelatine
a preserve made from the juice of fruit boiled with sugar and used as jam
a savoury food preparation set with gelatine or with a strong gelatinous stock and having a soft elastic consistency: calf's-foot jelly
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/jelly

I will concede (reluctantly) that a preserve made from the _juice_ of fruit and sugar can be called jelly in BE although I personally would call it jam. I somehow feel that fruit juice is not normally described as "fruit from which the actual pieces have been removed" although I suppose it could be.


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## Mahantongo

Biffo said:


> Just to confirm
> 
> BE jam ---> AE jelly [Preserve made by heating real fruit with sugar. It is then placed in jars and stored. Usually eaten by spreading on bread.]


No. BE jam may also be jam in AE, or it may be jelly, or it may be preserves. It may even be "butter", as in apple butter. It all depends on whether (and how much) you strained the fruit/sugar mixture after cooking, and how large or solid or opaque the bits of fruit left in the mixture are.


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## JamesM

Biffo said:


> In my opinion, version 5 is incorrect in BE (it was PaulQ who said it, not I).
> 
> Here is what Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers:: says
> 
> jelly /ˈdʒɛlɪ/
> n ( pl -lies)
> a fruit-flavoured clear dessert set with gelatine
> a preserve made from the juice of fruit boiled with sugar and used as jam
> a savoury food preparation set with gelatine or with a strong gelatinous stock and having a soft elastic consistency: calf's-foot jelly
> http://www.wordreference.com/definition/jelly
> 
> I will concede (reluctantly) that a preserve made from the _juice_ of fruit and sugar can be called jelly in BE although I personally would call it jam. I somehow feel that fruit juice is not normally described as "fruit from which the actual pieces have been removed" although I suppose it could be.



I don't know anyone who makes jelly from fruit juice, as in the juice you can buy in a store in cartons or bottles.  My only experience is seeing it made with real fruit, mashed to a pulp of some kind and then strained to remove everything but the juice.  In this case, "the juice of fruit" and "fruit juice" are also two different things to me.


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## Chasint

To return to the original questions (!). Let's see if we are in agreement now.

(a) The word 'jelly' is used both in AE and BE. 
(b) The word jello/Jell-O is only used in AE.

We can therefore say that.

AE* jello* always translates to BE *jelly *

However we cannot unequivocally say that 

BE *jelly* always translates to AE *jello *  It depends on what sort of BE jelly we are talking about.


BE jelly ---> AE jelly [When we mean a preserve/conserve made from fruit juice and sugar]
BE jelly ---> AE Jell-O [When we are discussing a sweet, fruit flavoured dessert made with gelatin. The ingredients are sold in a different form in the two countries.]
BE jelly ---> AE ?  [There are BE savoury foodstuffs, e.g. jellied eels, calves-foot jelly. I don't know what they are called in AE]

Have I got it right finally?
____________________________________________________________________

Note

I have purposely avoided talking about 'jam' or, e.g. peanut butter as they weren't in the original question.


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## bennymix

James: _I don't know anyone who makes jelly from fruit juice, as in the juice  you can buy in a store in cartons or bottles.  My only experience is  seeing it made with real fruit, mashed to a pulp of some kind and then  strained to remove everything but the juice.  In this case, "the juice  of fruit" and "fruit juice" are also two different things to me.  _
--

This discussion has become very abstruse.   Around here, people make wine at home by buying the juice.   They do not crush grapes.    While I agree there are miserable juices and approximations out there, I see no reason not to use a high quality fruit juice, bought as such--and call the result in AE  "jelly."    That 'jelly' must be immediately made with whole fruit, squashed and juiced seems a recondite requirement.   

Indeed, I would say that (AE) it's the high quality jams and preserves that require that the maker start with fruits.


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## Chasint

bennymix said:


> James: _I don't know anyone who makes jelly from fruit juice, as in the juice  you can buy in a store in cartons or bottles.  My only experience is  seeing it made with real fruit, mashed to a pulp of some kind and then  strained to remove everything but the juice.  In this case, "the juice  of fruit" and "fruit juice" are also two different things to me.  _
> --
> 
> This discussion has become very abstruse.   Around here, people make wine at home by buying the juice.   They do not crush grapes.    While I agree there are miserable juices and approximations out there, I see no reason not to use a high quality fruit juice, bought as such--and call the result in AE  "jelly."    That 'jelly' must be immediately made with whole fruit, squashed and juiced seems a recondite requirement.
> 
> Indeed, I would say that (AE) it's the high quality jams and preserves that require that the maker start with fruits.


At the risk of going off topic; What precisely do you mean by "fruit juice" in AE?  Is it made from fresh fruit? Is it sometimes made from concentrate? Can it be heat treated or otherwise sterilised? Does it ever contain water and sugar or other sweeteners?


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## bennymix

Let me address the case of "orange juice" from which one might make orange jelly (AE).
That label means that it may come directly from the fruit (labelled "fresh, not from concentrate), OR from concentrate; in the latter case, 'from concentrate' is added.   Yes, it would be heat treated, I believe.  No, it should not contain extra water, sugar, other sweeteners, other chemicals, or other juices.

The general rule seems to be that juices are not adulterated (except through 'concentration'/deconcentration!), but "drinks" may be.  "Orange drink" can be almost any kind of slop.


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## Chasint

bennymix said:


> ...
> That label means that it may come directly from the fruit (labelled "fresh, not from concentrate), OR from concentrate; in the latter case, 'from concentrate' is added.   Yes, it would be heat treated, I believe.  No, it should not contain extra water, sugar, other sweeteners, other chemicals, or other juices.
> 
> The general rule seems to be that juices are not adulterated (except through 'concentration'/deconcentration!), but "drinks" may be.  "Orange drink" can be almost any kind of slop.


Well at last we have some common ground. Juice is exactly the same in Britain!


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## JamesM

bennymix said:
			
		

> This discussion has become very abstruse. Around here, people make wine at home by buying the juice. They do not crush grapes. While I agree there are miserable juices and approximations out there, I see no reason not to use a high quality fruit juice, bought as such--and call the result in AE "jelly."



Do you know anyone who makes jelly this way?  I don't.  It's certainly possible but I don't think it's common practice.  The same people who make their own jelly are the people who believe in using fresh fruit as the main ingredient. 

To make apple jelly, for example, I wouldn't use Mott's apple juice from a bottle.  I honestly don't know anyone who would.  Perhaps cooking methods are different for different people.

Here's what I would call a typical recipe for making apple jelly.  Note that it starts with whole apples:

http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Apple-Jelly

The point of all this is that "juice of a fruit which has had all its bits removed" is exactly how I would describe the key ingredient for (AE) jelly.

I really like Mahantongo's expansion on the differences:



			
				Mahantongo said:
			
		

> No. BE jam may also be jam in AE, or it may be jelly, or it may be preserves. It may even be "butter", as in apple butter. It all depends on whether (and how much) you strained the fruit/sugar misture after cooking, and how large or solid or opaque the bits of fruit left in the mixture are.


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## bennymix

There is one fact which I don't think has been mentioned, but which James alludes to:  A homemade jelly is naturally going to look for quality ingredients.   Hence the methods he describes.   But in the US and Canada,
what's on the store shelves as "jelly" is pretty abysmal in quality (e.g. that made by giants such as K***t);  it's stuff to put with peanut butter in kids' sandwiches;   there are a few exceptions, namely imports from Britain  , and specialty items, often in tiny bottles (esp. for gifts).


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## JulianStuart

JamesM said:


> I don't know anyone who makes jelly from fruit juice, as in the juice you can buy in a store in cartons or bottles.  My only experience is seeing it made with real fruit, mashed to a pulp of some kind and then strained to remove everything but the juice.  In this case, "the juice of fruit" and "fruit juice" are also two different things to me.


You can buy such stuff in the UK which is called jelly, after being filtered to make it clear, and it is set with natural or added pectin and no gelatin - redcurrant jelly and mint (-flavoured apple) jelly.  These are the exceptions that prove the BE rule


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## JamesM

Yes, that's the ticket, JulianStuart.  That is the only type of product Americans call jelly.  

We have grape jelly (by far the most popular jelly or jam in the U.S.) and also mint and apple.  You can find others, but they are more rare.   Here in California, jalapeño jelly is also popular, particularly with crackers.  Jalapeño jelly and cream cheese is a common dip for crackers at casual family get-togethers here, in my experience.

http://www.food.com/recipe/jalapeno-jelly-cream-cheese-spread-172448


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## natkretep

Biffo said:


> 1 BE jelly ---> AE jelly [When we mean a preserve/conserve made from fruit juice and sugar]
> 2 BE jelly ---> AE Jell-O [When we are discussing a sweet, fruit flavoured dessert made with gelatin. The ingredients are sold in a different form in the two countries.]
> 3 BE jelly ---> AE ?  [There are BE savoury foodstuffs, e.g. jellied eels, calves-foot jelly. I don't know what they are called in AE]


Presumably, *mint jelly* fits into (1), although mint isn't a fruit?


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## Cagey

*Mint jelly* is actually apple jelly made from apple juice and strongly flavored with mint --- and colored green, usually.


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## natkretep

Ah, so that's what it is, Cagey. (Now if they had called it mint and apple jelly like Nigella, it would be clear. It appears to also have a significant amount of lemon juice too.) Thanks!


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