# Accusative form: when to use it, when not to?



## Interprete

Hello,

In my textbook, I have a lesson about a man having breakfast while listening to the radio news. It says: 
Radio : "Dun gece bir *bankayi *soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar".
Nejat Bey ekmegine yag ve reçel sürüyor: "Yine banka soymuslar. Bunlara çok iyi bir ceza vermeli".

My question is, why is it bankaYI in the first sentence, but not in the second?

Thank you!


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## Volcano

*Dün gece bir **bankayı soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar - They knocked off a bank and run away with 150000 TL last night.

Banka - y - ı >> Bankayı ( -ı is accusative case, y is **combining **consonant )

Yine banka soymuslar - They knocked off a bank again

Banka is a noun here (nominative)*


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## Sereia

"Dun gece bir *bankayi *soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar"

In this sentence, they're talking about a specific bank which is robbed. 

"Yine banka soymuslar"

And here, he's talking about a general situation. It's like "A bank robbery again". 

But this doesn't mean that "dun gece bir banka soyup 150 milyonla kaçtılar" is completely wrong. I guess you can say both. But if you say "Yine bankayı soymuşlar", this time the meaning of the sentence changes from "They robbed a bank again" to "They robbed *the *bank again".


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## Volcano

*Plus, you can also say 'Dün gece bir banka soyup 150 milyonla kaçmışlar' if you say 'Yine bankayı soymuşlar' you know which bank was knocked off again. *


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## Volcano

Sereia said:


> "Dun gece bir *bankayi *soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar"
> 
> In this sentence, they're talking about a specific bank which is robbed.



*I don't think that 'bir bankayı' refers to a specific bank in Turkish.Only 'bankayı' can refer to a specific bank*


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## Interprete

Thank you for your replies! To be honest it still isn't quite clear to me (I don't understand why you can say 'bir bankayi' since bir implies you don't specify which one).
But I guess it's the kind of tricky points you just have to accept and learn by heart!

Thank you!


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## Volcano

Interprete said:


> Thank you for your replies! To be honest it still isn't quite clear to me (I don't understand why you can say 'bir bankayi' since bir implies you don't specify which one).
> But I guess it's the kind of tricky points you just have to accept and learn by heart!
> 
> Thank you!



*As I said before, you can also say bir banka.In the sentence you gave us 'bir bankayı' implies a bank in Turkey not specific one, -ı is accusative case but in only 'bankayı' -ı is definitive article the as to English which is the same with accusative case in Turkish.*


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## piozaf

There is into my book a accusative case which İ don't understand...
Why in the question there is not and in the answer it there is? 

*Üniversite sınavlar için hangi ayı seçmiş? *

*Üniversite sınavları için haziran seçmiş. *

Thanks


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## Volcano

piozaf said:


> There is into my book a accusative case which İ don't understand...
> Why in the question there is not and in the answer it there is?
> 
> *Üniversite sınavlar için hangi ayı seçmiş? *
> 
> *Üniversite sınavları için haziran seçmiş. *
> 
> Thanks



*Üniversite sınavlar için hangi ayı seçmiş ? - Which month did the university choose for the exams

Üniversite, sınavları için haziranı seçmiş - The university chose June for its exams*


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## poika-

Interprete said:


> Hello,
> 
> In my textbook, I have a lesson about a man having breakfast while listening to the radio news. It says:
> Radio : "Dun gece bir *bankayi *soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar".
> Nejat Bey ekmegine yag ve reçel sürüyor: "Yine banka soymuslar. Bunlara çok iyi bir ceza vermeli".
> 
> My question is, why is it bankaYI in the first sentence, but not in the second?
> 
> Thank you!


 
Sir , I am not sure , but there is something about *BİR :*



Radio : "Dun gece bir *bankayi *soyup 150 milyonla kaçtilar".

*Remove the 'bir' :*

Dün gece bankayı soyup...

You may understand ' there is only one and known bank , and it was robbed. Or shortly , you are talking about a specific , known bank, like 'THE bank' .

A more clear exp :

*Dükkana yarın gitmeyece'm .*

It is clear about which market you are talking...Your market , or the market where you work.



Nejat Bey ekmegine yag ve reçel sürüyor: "*Yine banka* soymuslar. Bunlara çok iyi bir ceza vermeli".

If it were like that , OK again :

"Yine *bir *banka*yı* soymuslar ..'

--

Shortly , in that sentence , about which you are asking why they weren't '-yı ' , it will be thought that you are talking about a specific bank ,clear bank if you add *yı *there... 

But by Adding *bir *as I did there, the bank will be an ordinary bank too ...

I hope I helped, a deep question ...


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## tulpan

Interprete said:


> Thank you for your replies! To be honest it still isn't quite clear to me (I don't understand why you can say 'bir bankayi' since bir implies you don't specify which one).
> But I guess it's the kind of tricky points you just have to accept and learn by heart!
> 
> Thank you!


 
You are right!! It has to do with BIR...that is why you use bankayi...bir bankayi.

But you could also say Bir banka and it would be totally correct. Some more examples with BIR:

Dun bir cocuga rastladim. (I met a child yesterday)
Dun cocuga rastladim. (I met the child yesterday)

Dun bir komsuya rastladim. (I met a neighbour yesterday)
Dun komsuya rastladim. (I met the neighbour yesterday)

Dun bir komsuma rastladim. (I met my (one of my) neighbour (s) yesterday)
Dun komsuma rastladim. (I met my neighbour yesterday)

Cocuk=child
Komsu=neighbour
Rastlamak= to meet


I hope it is clear now.


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## tristero

I'm not sure how much it will help to clarify things, but I would suggest that the distinction between SPECIFIC/NONSPECIFIC and DEFINITE/INDEFINITE needs to be kept in mind in the example on the bank.

For instance, if you go into a bookshop and say "Ankara tarihi ile ilgili bir kitap ariyorum" ("I'm look for a book on the history of Ankara") the bookseller will understand that you are looking for any book on the history of Ankara, and not a specific book that you have in mind.

But if you say "Ankara tarihi ile ilgili bir kitabi ariyorum", he'll understand that you have a specific book in mind.  This sentence would mean "I'm looking for a certain (specific) book on the history of Ankara."  In this case, it's a SPECIFIC but INDEFINITE book; you haven't defined it yet.

If you say "Ankara Tarihi kitabini ariyorum", you're saying "I'm looking for the book 'History of Ankara'."  A SPECIFIC, DEFINITE book.

In the first sentence asked about, "bir bankayi soymuslar" means "they robbed a (certain) bank", i.e., a SPECIFIC but still INDEFINITE (since not identified) bank.  The response, "yine banka soymuslar" doesn't refer to any specific bank, but just refers to what "they" are doing:  "They're still going around bank-robbing."  (The focus is on the action, and not on the bank just robbed.)

SPECIFIC and DEFINITE in the first sentence could have been something like "Aksaray'daki Is Bankasini soymuslar."


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## Evros

tulpan said:


> You are right!! It has to do with BIR...that is why you use bankayi...bir bankayi.
> 
> But you could also say Bir banka and it would be totally correct. Some more examples with BIR:
> 
> Dun bir cocuga rastladim. (I met a child yesterday)
> Dun cocuga rastladim. (I met the child yesterday)
> 
> Dun bir komsuya rastladim. (I met a neighbour yesterday)
> Dun komsuya rastladim. (I met the neighbour yesterday)
> 
> Dun bir komsuma rastladim. (I met my (one of my) neighbour (s) yesterday)
> Dun komsuma rastladim. (I met my neighbour yesterday)
> 
> Cocuk=child
> Komsu=neighbour
> Rastlamak= to meet
> 
> 
> I hope it is clear now.



I am sorry but these are very wrong examples,because you are not using accusative form,but you use dative form;that will make them more confused

Let me explain this in my opinion:

Accusative is used for specific things,so if the bank that is talked about is a known bank,so accusative form is used.But,when u talk about "robbing bank" ,its a general state,its a crime,doesnt matter any bank  so you dont use accusative
You also can think it as article in your languages 

Bankayı soymuşlar --> they robbed "the" bank (robbed bank is known)
Banka soymuşlar -->they robbed bank  (any bank,we dont know which bank)

Hope this is helpful


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## tulpan

Evros said:


> I am sorry but these are very wrong examples,because you are not using accusative form,but you use dative form;that will make them more confused
> 
> Let me explain this in my opinion:
> 
> Accusative is used for specific things,so if the bank that is talked about is a known bank,so accusative form is used.But,when u talk about "robbing bank" ,its a general state,its a crime,doesnt matter any bank  so you dont use accusative
> You also can think it as article in your languages
> 
> Bankayı soymuşlar --> they robbed "the" bank (robbed bank is known)
> Banka soymuşlar -->they robbed bank (any bank,we dont know which bank)
> 
> Hope this is helpful


 
My examples were totally correct Actually you and me are saying the same thing but I have taken some more examples than bank. And look at these sentences:

Dün bir bankayi soymuslar
(Yesterday they had robbed a bank)

Dün bankayi soymuslar.
Yesterday they had robbed the bank.

Dun banka soymuslar.
Yesterday they had robbed a bank.


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## Volcano

*Past Perfect tense is not used with the days like yesterday, friday.It should be past tense:

Yesterday they + verb2/verb-ed...
*


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## Evros

tulpan;

Your examples were;
Dun bir cocuga rastladim. (I met a child yesterday)
Dun cocuga rastladim. (I met the child yesterday)

Dun bir komsuya rastladim. (I met a neighbour yesterday)
Dun komsuya rastladim. (I met the neighbour yesterday)

Question was about the accusative case confusion;
Accusative form of çocuk is not çocuğa,its çocuğu
Komşuya means "to" neighbor,its dative,komşuyu is the accusative form .. your examples were in dative case!
But your last post is correct,accusative suffix is -i ,not -a 

thanks


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## tulpan

Volcano said:


> *Past Perfect tense is not used with the days like yesterday, friday.It should be past tense:*
> 
> *Yesterday they + verb2/verb-ed...*


 
Volcano,

My mother tongue is not English ...but I wonder how you would write a reported speech...

For example

X: "Yesterday they robbed a bank".
Y: "What did X say?"
Z: (X said that) yesterday they had robbed a bank.

Past tense becomes past perfect tense. This makes sense to me keeping in mind that English is not my mother tongue.

All the best!!


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## Volcano

tulpan said:


> Volcano,
> 
> My mother tongue is not English ...but I wonder how you would write a reported speech...
> 
> For example
> 
> X: "Yesterday they robbed a bank".
> Y: "What did X say?"
> Z: (X said that) _*the day before/the previous day*_ they had robbed a bank.
> 
> Past tense becomes past perfect tense. This makes sense to me keeping in mind that English is not my mother tongue.
> 
> All the best!!


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