# tout court



## tgarvey

Toutes mes affaires sont en garde-meuble. Je n'ai donc pas mon dictionnaire à portée de main.

Est-ce que "tout court" est invariable?  Ou est-ce que ça change au pluriel? Au féminin?

Merci comme toujours


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## OlivierG

Mais "tout court" est invariable.
_"Doit-on parler de femme moderne ou de femme tout court?"_
(et *pas *toute courte)


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## commonphilosopher

But what does "tout court" mean in English?

Thanks.


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## Nath0811

commonphilosopher said:
			
		

> But what does "tout court" mean in English?


It means only.


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## tgarvey

Translation may vary according to context.  ". . femme tout court. . " in Olivier's message above I would translate as ". . the woman PERIOD. .", or ". . ALL women. . ", or ". . women in general. .", or ". . just plain women. ."  

In last, "plain" is NOT - repeat, NOT - to be interpreted as, say "unglamourous".


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## xav

do you can say "to say it short" ?
"short said" ?
"in short" ?


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## tgarvey

I'm not familiar with that, xav.  If you expressed it to me that way, I'd probably ask you to clarify.  "In short" would correspond with "En bref" preceding a short summary of something that would not be reduced to a single word or two.


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## xav

tgarvey said:
			
		

> I'm not familiar with that, xav. If you expressed it to me that way, I'd probably ask you to clarify. "In short" would correspond with "En bref" preceding a short summary of something that would not be reduced to a single word or two.


 
OK- so, the meaning is different. 
"tout court" comes always after a noun.
"in short" = "en bref" preceeds a summary.
Thanks a lot !


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## tgarvey

You're welcome !!

Here's another for ". . femme tout court. . ":  "WOMAN in one word"


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## DearPrudence

Hello

This "tout court" have stuck me here.
I wanted to say:*
I don't think "en dehors" tout court exists.*
But I don't know how I could say.

Any ideas?

Thanks


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## dnldnl

may be here you could translate it as "as such": I don't think 'en dehors,' as such, exists. Or may be you could translate it as "per se": I don't think 'en dehors' exists per se.


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## mgarizona

I'd probably go with "I don't think _en dehors_ exists as such" which should be entirely understandable in context.

Otherwise, what? "I don't think you can use _en dehors_ all by itself that way" ... something roundabout like that.


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## DearPrudence

Thank you both  
Change made. I've opted for the short version of course 
No doubt all that will come in handy some other time


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## sirgawain

In a Kingsley Amis novel, a boorish painter is describing his work, and he says "...just pictures, mere pictures, pictures _tout court_, or as our American cousins would say, pictures period.

How would you translate "tout court" into English....

Thanks


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## floise

Hi Sirgawain,

They give it to you: 'period'.

Floise


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## Oluc (Yvon)

I was surprised when I realized Italians used "tout court" as we do in French.  I am once again surprised to discover that (some) anglophones use it as well in the same sense!


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## esprit de l'escalier

Conversely, I wondered if someone might explain the expression "tout court" to an English speaker. It's often used as a foreign expression in English, but I wonder how accurate this usage is. My _English _dictionary (Merriam Webster collegiate) defines it as all of these things:

*:* quite short  *:* and nothing else  *:* simply  *:* just; _also_ *:* brusquely

The "and nothing else" and "simply" meaning seems to fit with DearPrudence's usage here, and my previous understanding of it, but I'm having trouble finding any other examples of its use in French. It's not definited in the wordreference.com dictionary, and I wondered, before I found this thread, if it was even really used in the French language! Google mainly finds a lot of English uses, and those often seem odd. What prompted my original search was the following use:

Indeed, many proponents of postmodernism challenge the viability of such a distinction _tout court_, seeing in achieved modernism the emergence of a problem the philosophical tradition has repressed.

So, what does the author mean to say here? They are challenging the distinction "brusquely," i.e., "abruptly," "without a second thought"? This doesn't comport with my understanding of the French meaning of the expression _tout court_. Does it have this dismissive meaning in French as well?

Merci de votre aide,
Esprit


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## kiwi-di

In some contexts (although not in the one given by DearPrudence), I think _tout court_ could be translated by _full stop (period_ in AE).

I can't think of an example just at the moment, but I know I've used _tout court_ in situations where I'd say _full stop_ in English. 

[...]


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## bloomiegirl

esprit de l'escalier said:


> [...] What prompted my original search was the following use:
> Indeed, many proponents of postmodernism challenge the viability of such a distinction _tout court_, seeing in achieved modernism the emergence of a problem the philosophical tradition has repressed.
> 
> So, what does the author mean to say here? They are challenging the distinction "brusquely," i.e., "abruptly," "without a second thought"? This doesn't comport with my understanding of the French meaning of the expression _tout court_. Does it have this dismissive meaning in French as well? [...]


I think of _tout court_ as _in and of itself_ (which isn't so _court_). 
Would that work in your example?


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## BigRedDog

Well, "tout court" is often used in French by reference as a lengthier suggestion, like in the following:

- Quelle est ton nom? (What's your name?)
- Bloomiegirl 
- Blomiegirl comment? (meaning: any last name?)
- Bloomiegirl tout court! (only Bloomiegirl!)


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## esprit de l'escalier

bloomiegirl said:


> I think of _tout court_ as _in and of itself_ (which isn't so _court_).
> Would that work in your example?



Merci bien.

I found four other pages discussing the phrase, which somehow eluded my first search. In most contexts, native speakers have been offering "period" for the translation, but your phrase seems to get at the meaning well in certain set of contexts.

OlivierG offers a helpful example, too: 
_"Doit-on parler de femme moderne ou de femme tout court?"
_
Both "period" and "in and of [her]self" work well there.

Alright, I think I've got a good command of the phrase now. Can't wait to encounter it again... or find occasion to use it. Thanks so much.


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## lebanna

esprit de l'escalier said:


> Conversely, I wondered if someone might explain the expression "tout court" to an English speaker. It's often used as a foreign expression in English, but I wonder how accurate this usage is. My _English _dictionary (Merriam Webster collegiate) defines it as all of these things:
> 
> *:* quite short *:* and nothing else *:* simply *:* just; _also_ *:* brusquely
> 
> The "and nothing else" and "simply" meaning seems to fit with DearPrudence's usage here, and my previous understanding of it, but I'm having trouble finding any other examples of its use in French. It's not definited in the wordreference.com dictionary, and I wondered, before I found this thread, if it was even really used in the French language! Google mainly finds a lot of English uses, and those often seem odd. What prompted my original search was the following use:
> 
> Indeed, many proponents of postmodernism challenge the viability of such a distinction _tout court_, seeing in achieved modernism the emergence of a problem the philosophical tradition has repressed.
> 
> So, what does the author mean to say here? They are challenging the distinction "brusquely," i.e., "abruptly," "without a second thought"? This doesn't comport with my understanding of the French meaning of the expression _tout court_. Does it have this dismissive meaning in French as well?
> 
> Merci de votre aide,
> Esprit


 
I think here the sense is 'at all'. The sense is 'why bother at all.


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## mgarizona

esprit de l'escalier said:


> Indeed, many proponents of postmodernism challenge the viability of such a distinction _tout court_, seeing in achieved modernism the emergence of a problem the philosophical tradition has repressed.



For this example I would harken back to dnldnl's original suggestion of _per se_, if you don't mind swapping a French phrase for a Latin one. _Per se_ is of course exactly the same as bloomiegirl's 'in and of itself' but has neatness and brevity on its side.

'They challenge the viability of such a distinction per se.'


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## franc 91

tout court - no more than that/just that + (en dehors de cela - beyond that)


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## dnldnl

mgarizona said:


> For this example I would harken back to dnldnl's original suggestion of _per se_, if you don't mind swapping a French phrase for a Latin one.



A wise conclusion . Also, looking back at my almost 3-year old post, I think changing the word order in my translation would sound better:

I don't think 'en dehors' _per se_ exists.


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## David Latapie

La locution « tout court » (dont j'ignore l'équivalent anglais et ça m'embête) est utilisé quand on veut mettre en avant le fait que quelque chose n'est pas détaillé.
Exemples :

_ Au lieu de l'appeler « Gustave-Alphonse », elle l'a appelé « Gustave » *tout court*._
_ Il pensait avoir une aventure inoubliable. Il a eu une aventure *tout court*._
Je pense que les traductions anglaises seraient moins éloquentes et seraient, respectivement :

_ Instead of calling him "Gustave-Alphonse", she *just* called him "Gustave"._
_ He hoped he would live an unforgettable romance. He *simply* live a romance._
Du coup, l'effet rhétorique tombe à l'eau. Mais je serais heureux de savoir qu'il y a un meilleur moyen de retranscrire ceci !

Si vous trouvez une nouvelle manière de l'expliquer ou bien la traduction anglaise, je suis preneur !


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## David Latapie

Ça ne transcrit pas la rhétorique de « tout court ». C'est un peu le même genre de subtilité que, en anglais, l'ajout du verbe _to do_ devant un verbe pour le renforcer : he got a car/he *did* get car.

Un humoriste pourrait tout à fait faire un sketch avec la seconde phrase (celle sur l'aventure) en utilisant « tout court ». Alors qu'avec « point final », ça ne donne pas du tout le même effet. « Point final » donne une impression factuelle, alors que « tout court » met en valeur le contraste.


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## Me-K

Et *point *tout seul? 
Je préférais_ point_ tout seul, mais j'ai rajouté l'alternative _point final_, or ça ne rend pas pareil. Peux-tu me revenir?
_Point _tout seul me semble, dans ton souci à toi, encore plus fort que _tout court_.
_Point à la ligne_ ou _point final _ou _un point c'est tout_ paraissent plus forts, mais en réalité sonnent moins fort que _point _tout seul.


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## wildan1

David Latapie said:


> La locution « tout court » (dont j'ignore l'équivalent anglais et ça m'embête) est utilisé quand on veut mettre en avant le fait que quelque chose n'est pas détaillé.
> Du coup, l'effet rhétorique tombe à l'eau. Mais je serais heureux de savoir qu'il y a un meilleur moyen de retranscrire ceci !
> 
> Si vous trouvez une nouvelle manière de l'expliquer ou bien la traduction anglaise, je suis preneur !


The expression *just plain* is useful for this:

_Instead of calling him "Gustave-Alphonse" she called him *just plain* Gustave._

_Instead of an unforgettable romance he had* just* a *plain* affair._

More informally, _"plain old" (plain old Gustave; a plain old affair)_


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## David Latapie

wildan1 said:


> The expression *just plain* is useful for this:
> 
> _Instead of calling him "Gustave-Alphonse" she called him *just plain* Gustave._
> 
> _Instead of an unforgettable romance he had* just* a *plain* affair._
> 
> More informally, _"plain old" (plain old Gustave; a plain old affair)_


Great! Thank you very much!


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## Lofty P. Rice

I've always understood it to mean"no more no less". But there are many ways to say that in English.


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## franc 91

Concerning Gustave - I suggest - she (just) called him Gustave for short. - and - he only had a very dull uninteresting one, or - he had an affair that turned out to be very ordinary.


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