# To regret



## ihitokage

Hello guys, how are you?
I have one question if you don't mind.
Could you please tell me how to explain I regret something?

I know shimau/chau version like
すでに寿司をたべちゃった
すでに寿司をたべてしまった

but I have read here on the forums that this form could have many meanings except of regretting something so is there a more common way how to express regrets in Japanese?
どうもありがとう


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## Schokolade

I would say 「お寿司、食べるんじゃなかった。」(colloquial) 
It's like "I shouldn't have eaten the sushi."


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## frequency

Ahaha..I still remember I talked about this one with Shatin.

There's a woman who wants to lose weight. Though she shouldn't have eaten sushi, as Schoko said, she did. Then she'll say right after eating it:あーあ、お寿司を食べてしまった！あーあ、お寿司を食べちゃった！ Either is OK.

Note that Schoko's one especially mentions about her action in the past. You don't need すでに especially in those cases..すでに emphasises you did/you finished in the past.


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## Tonky

Schokolade said:


> 「お寿司、食べるんじゃなかった。」(colloquial)


This^ to show your regret.


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## Schokolade

Afterthoughts:
I also say;
「お寿司、食べなきゃよかった。」(colloquial)
 「お寿司を食べなければよかった。」(neutral/in the plain form) 
「お寿司を食べなければよかったです。」(in the polite form)

@Tonky-san,
Which do you say more often, 「～～するんじゃなかった」 or 「～～しなきゃよかった」?


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## ihitokage

Thank you guys, this helped me a lot but one thing I don't understand is in here
お寿司、食べるんじゃなかった。
where is the regret formula, I mean it sounds to me like "I didn't eat sushi."
sorry beginner


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## Schokolade

Probably this page will be of some help? http://richardfremmerlid.com/viewentry.php?intEntryID=17667


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## ihitokage

hmm so ~n jankatta is not meant like shorten dewanakatta? 
I still don't feel it you know it sounds like is not like dewa arimasen in past
or that "n" is the key? I also thought that n has explanation or confirmation function in questions


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## Schokolade

ihitokage said:


> ~n jankatta is not meant like shorten dewanakatta?


Yes, the んじゃなかった is the contracted form of のではなかった. 


> I still don't feel it you know it sounds like is not like dewa arimasen in past


Yes んじゃなかった/のではなかった is the past tense form of んじゃない/のではない, and のではありませんでした is the past tense form of のではありません.

Even so, you can say ～～するんじゃなかった to mean "I shouldn't have done~~", and you can't say ～～するのではありませんでした to mean that. When you want to sound politer, you could say ～～するべきではありませんでした instead. 



> or that "n" is the key? I also thought that n has explanation or confirmation function in questions


The ん[n] in んじゃなかった is the contraction of の[no].


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## ihitokage

Aaaah I get it now. It is like the べき grammar.
Many thanks for explanation and help. Wish you all the best in your life. ^^


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## Tonky

Schokolade said:


> @Tonky-san,
> Which do you say more often, 「～～するんじゃなかった」 or 「～～しなきゃよかった」?


I say 「～するんじゃなかった」 or dialect 「～せんかったらよかった」 all the time. 「～しなきゃよかった」 sounds too Tokyo-ish for me!


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## ihitokage

Hmmm
I though about this again recently and just want to ask if this option is correct or nonsense.

お寿司をたべなかったほうがいい


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## Flaminius

*ihitokage*, it's close but we say:
お寿司をたべないほうがよかった。

If you ate sushi, you cannot say たべなかった because that would make a proposition すしを食べない true at a relevant point in the past.  You ate sushi, and the proposition has to be false.


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## ihitokage

Flaminius said:


> *ihitokage*, it's close but we say:
> お寿司をたべないほうがよかった。
> 
> If you ate sushi, you cannot say たべなかった because that would make a proposition すしを食べない true at a relevant point in the past.  You ate sushi, and the proposition has to be false.



どうもありがとう


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## Firewall

Flaminius said:


> *ihitokage*, it's close but we say:
> お寿司をたべないほうがよかった。
> 
> If you ate sushi, you cannot say たべなかった because that would make a proposition すしを食べない true at a relevant point in the past. You ate sushi, and the proposition has to be false.



Sorry, could you explain that in more detail?  I remember learning that too, but I never really understood why.  

If I'm getting this right, using your explanation, if you say 寿司を食べたほうがいい, it would make the proposition 寿司を食べる true at a relevant point in the past (but you actually didn't eat sushi, so the proposition has to be false?), yet I'm pretty sure it's actually perfectly fine to say 寿司を食べたほうがいい to mean "(I) would rather/should eat sushi."

However, the OP was using 食べなかったほうがいい to refer to a past event, while 食べたほうがいい refers to a present event.

To begin with, it seemed a little strange to me that you could use 食べた and still refer to a present/future event, as in 食べたほうがいい. Furthermore, you can still say 食べたほうがよかった to refer to a past event. 
This made me think that the た in 食べた isn't 過去形 but is some completely different type of た.

With that in mind, though, one would expect 食べなかったほうがいい to mean something like, "(I) should not eat sushi," but in reality, no one every says たべなかったほうがいい, right?

I guess I'm just not seeing the full picture here.


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## Flaminius

Firewall said:


> If I'm getting this right, using your explanation, if you say 寿司を食べたほうがいい, it would make the proposition 寿司を食べる true at a relevant point in the past (but you actually didn't eat sushi, so the proposition has to be false?), yet I'm pretty sure it's actually perfectly fine to say 寿司を食べたほうがいい to mean "(I) would rather/should eat sushi."


Oh, it turns out that I was babbling again.  I will explain things over and hope this time it makes sense.




> However, the OP was using 食べなかったほうがいい to refer to a past event, while 食べたほうがいい refers to a present event.


The sentence is ungrammatical, even though my explanation as to why was erroneous.



> To begin with, it seemed a little strange to me that you could use 食べた and still refer to a present/future event, as in 食べたほうがいい. Furthermore, you can still say 食べたほうがよかった to refer to a past event.


The _-ta_ in the "ta hō ga ī" construction does not mean the past but a mood (imperative, exhortative or something like that).
E.g., 行った行った (Hey, go already!)

"Itta hō ga yoi" is a judgment about the present situation and the content of the judgment is that one should go.  The present tense is carried by _yoi_.
A judgment about the past is formulated as:
_Itta hō ga yokatta._
For the above, _-ta_ is the mark of not when the judgment was made but when it is about.

The negative construction on par with the "ta hō ga ī" is:
_-nai hō ga yoi_

食べない方がいい/よい is "I should not eat".

Affixing _-ta_ to いい/よい does not make a sentence in the past tense but a sentence about the past.  It is not a  judgment one once made and then abandoned.  One has just made it or is making it as one speaks.  食べないほうがよかった, therefore, is a judgment that the speaker thinks to be true at present and it is about a past situation.

The Japanese framework of the tense is a relative one.  This means that tenses in subordinate clauses defer to the one in the main clause, without apparent markers.  There are exceptions such as the quotative _-to_ but those subordinate clauses we have discussed in this thread are good examples.  They do not carry tense markers.  When they appear to be, what they carry are not tense markers but mood markers.   They are morphologically the same and I made a terrible mistake in my previous post.




> This made me think that the た in 食べた isn't 過去形 but is some completely different type of た.


The above has been a very lengthy "Yes, you are right".


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## ihitokage

Umm I came to another thing.
I would like to ask about how to use negative form of this, I mean the shimau and chau form.
Is this correct?

I regret that I didn't go.
私はいかないしまった 
私はいくちゃなかった


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## YangMuye

～ない＋しまう→～ないでしまう

You can use it like this:
その時、用事があって、行かないでしまった。
It seems to me that ないでしまった is not often used with potential verbs.

You could also say
行っていればよかった(のに)
行ったらよかった(のに)
行っていたらよかった(のに)
行くんだった


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## ihitokage

YangMuye said:


> ～ない＋しまう→～ないでしまう
> 
> You can use it like this:
> その時、用事があって、行かないでしまった。
> ...



Thanks. Yea I know about that alternatives. So you don't use that in past form? しまった / ちゃった


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## YangMuye

ihitokage said:


> Thanks. Yea I know about that alternatives. So you don't use that in past form? しまった / ちゃった


All the examples are in the past form.

By the way, the meaning of first example is actually different from the others.


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## ihitokage

YangMuye said:


> All the examples are in the past form.
> 
> By the way, the meaning of first example is actually different from the others.



Oh sorry I see now. 
ありがとうございます


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