# Edilgen eylemler ve 'tarafından' - [Syntax]



## wordofdamocles

If a verb in its active voice, eg. "vermek" is to be transferred into passive voice, "verilmek", then the object becomes the subject and the subject becomes...what? I got a bit confused with this "tarafından" that I encountered. For example:
Ali kitabı verdi -> Kitap, Ali tarafından, verildi

Is the above correct? If so, would it be wrong if I said "Kitap Ali'den verildi"? 

Thank you in advance


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## Rallino

wordofdamocles said:


> Ali kitabı verdi -> Kitap, Ali tarafından, verildi
> 
> Is the above correct?
> Thank you in advance



Yes, only there is no comma after 'tarafından'. _Kitap, Ali tarafından verildi.
_


wordofdamocles said:


> If so, would it be wrong if I said "Kitap Ali'den verildi"?
> Thank you in advance



Yes it would, because that way, you're saying:"_The book was given from Ali._" which is wrong.

You would say: _...by Ali._ which is "Ali tarafından."


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## wordofdamocles

Rallino said:


> Yes, only there is no comma after 'tarafından'. _Kitap, Ali tarafından verildi.
> _
> 
> 
> Yes it would, because that way, you're saying:"_The book was given from Ali._" which is wrong.
> 
> You would say: _...by Ali._ which is "Ali tarafından."



hmmm i see...is there any other way i could point out the person performing the verb's action in passive voice, without using "tarafından"?


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## Rallino

Not when there is a name, but occasionally, when the performer of the action is a group, or an association or some such thing, you can use the suffix -ce.

*Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı'nca hazırlanan belge. *The document (that was) prepared by the Ministry of Education.
_(Alternative to: Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı tarafından...)_

*Teröristlerce öldürülen siviller.* The civilians (that were) killed by the terrorists.
_(Alternative to: Teröristler tarafından...)_

This is used in written language and note that it doesn't fit everywhere, and I can't think of a rule. For example it doesn't work with your original sentence:

_Kitap, Ali tarafından verildi._ 
_Kitap, Ali'ce verildi. 
_


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## Rallino

I'm sorry, I've just noticed that my examples include relative clauses which might confuse you if you're a beginner.  Let me simplify those examples:

*Belge, Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı'nca hazırlandı. *The document was prepared by the Ministry of Education.
_(Alternative to: ...Milli Eğitim Bakanlığı tarafından...)_


*Siviller, teröristlerce öldürüldü.* The civilians were killed by the terrorists.
_(Alternative to: ....teröristler tarafından...)_


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## wordofdamocles

no your examples were not confusing, I understood the difference. Simply put, if we're dealing with a single person we use "taraf" and if we're dealing with a group or sth collective we may use "taraf" and "-ca/-ce" as well.Right?


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## Rallino

Yes, that could be a crude rule. However to be on the safe side, I suggest that you should use "tarafından" all the time, as it fits every sentence.


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## jedilost

In my humble opinion, there is absolutely no need to use the passive form if you already know who does the job. This isn't really how we speak in Turkish. For example _"Kitap, Ali tarafından verildi."_ is grammatically correct but nobody speaks like that. Perhaps you use this example just to learn the basics of the language and this is perfectly OK, but if you really want to be on the safe side, try to avoid such a sentence structure as much as possible.


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## Rallino

jedilost said:


> In my humble opinion, there is absolutely no need to use the passive form if you already know who does the job. This isn't really how we speak in Turkish. For example _"Kitap, Ali tarafından verildi."_ is grammatically correct but nobody speaks like that. Perhaps you use this example just to learn the basics of the language and this is perfectly OK, but if you really want to be on the safe side, try to avoid such a sentence structure as much as possible.



Let's underline the "speaking". We maybe don't use it with our friends but, say, in a scientific report, you just HAVE TO use passive voice, therefore if a learner aims to achieve more than just colloquial speech level, he will have to master passive voice. For example me, I have to use passive voice almost every day, due to my job and studies. Not to mention that newspapers use this form quite often as well.


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## wordofdamocles

I think that in every language occurs the same rule concerning passive voice. You don't want to underline the person doing the action, but the action itself. In a scientific essay i think that in Turkish as well it is more appropriate to use passive voice. it makes more sense to my understanding.


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