# Are witches real?



## .   1

Do witches exist?

The Collins dictionary;
*witch* _n _*1 *a person, usually female, who practices or professes to practise magic or sorcery, especially black magic, or is believed to have dealings with the devil.

Do you believe that witches exist?
Do you know anybody who believes that witches exist?

If witches exist can they communicate with Satan?
If witches exist what do we have to fear from them and what can we do to protect ourselves from this fear?

.,,


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## CrazyArcher

I've witnessed something that can be called as "supernatural" phenomena... In my opinion there's nothing supernatural, everything is natural, it's just the science that doesn't have explanation to that. If you ask me whether witches exist, then I'll answer of course they do. The word "witch" comes from "wisdom", and surely there are individuals who can extend capabilities of their mind beyond the abilities of most people. I see no reason to fear those people more then anyone else... The power to destroy complements the power to heal, and I see no reason to emphasize the "black" component of magick over the "white" one.


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## Poetic Device

Have you ever heard of Wica?  It's a form of witchcraft--of the white/pure/good persuasion--that is very real.  In the United States at least it is recognised as an actual religion.


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## 94kittycat

.,, :

I'm pretty sure that there are such people as witches. I know that it's possible for people to worship the devil and practice black magic, or witchcraft. If they do those kind of things then, I think, they are considered as witches.


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## Poetic Device

The way I see it is this:  from what I understand witchcraft is a religion, and if there are people that constitute Star Wars and Star Trek as religions then there are people that use witchcraft as a religion.  :-D


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## Josh_

Yes, I believe "witches" exist, that is people who give themselves this label, like those who are adherents to the Wiccan faith, but as far as witches as outlined in the definition of the opening post existing, no, I do not believe that.


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## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> The way I see it is this: from what I understand witchcraft is a religion, and if there are people that constitute Star Wars and Star Trek as religions then there are people that use witchcraft as a religion. :-D


I asked not about religions or organisations.
Are witches real?
Can witches communicate with the devil?
Can witches cause harm by concantation?
Are witches able to summon demons?

.,,


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## panjabigator

. said:


> I asked not about religions or organisations.
> Are witches real?
> Can witches communicate with the devil?
> Can witches cause harm by concantation?
> Are witches able to summon demons?
> 
> .,,



Are witches real?  Sure...followers of Wicca I presume are witches.

Can they communicate with the devil?  No...because, at least for me, there is no such thing as the devil.

Can they cause harm by incantation?  I have never really believed to hard in that...I'd say no.  I do believe in ghosts and aliens if at all relevant.

Witches cannot summon demons (unless this is some sort of a metaphor...inner demons perhaps?)


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## Poetic Device

Here are the links that I promised about Wicca and witchcraft being a religion:

http://etext.virginia.edu/users/fennell/highland/harper/religlink.html
http://www.religioustolerance.org/witchcra.htm

I have more if anyone is interested.
Sorry that it took so long to post them.


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## Poetic Device

. said:


> I asked not about religions or organisations.
> Are witches real?
> Can witches communicate with the devil?
> Can witches cause harm by concantation?
> Are witches able to summon demons?
> 
> .,,


 
I gotta get back to you on that one.  I know the answers but I have to consult with my Wiccan friend.


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## Flaminius

. said:


> Do witches exist?


Yes they do; in sense of



			
				The Collins dictionary with edit by the requoter said:
			
		

> a person, usually female (???), who practices or professes to practise magic or sorcery, especially black magic, or is *believed *to have dealings with the devil.


To profess to practise magic is much easier than to actually practise it.  Fooling others into believing that one has a hotline to the office of a demon is much easier than having a conversation with it.  The latter options have been among 100000 impossibilities in the human history.  Cost-and-benefit thinking is not proprietary to economics.  



> Do you believe that witches exist?  By the nominal definition above I do.
> Do you know anybody who believes that witches exist?  See above.
> 
> If witches exist can they communicate with Satan?  Unless you mean _Satan_, my black German shepherd, Satan does not exist.





> If witches exist what do we have to fear from them and what can we do to protect ourselves from this fear?
> 
> .,,


We'd better be cautious of those impostors as we should beware of a con artist.  While the latter offers a prospect of exorbitant profit, the former sets the victims up with protection from invisible threat, miraculous cure and so on.


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## danielfranco

I guess I believe the world is much wider than my own comprehension.

There are indeed real reports of familiars and other spirits that are summoned (but nobody knows to which extent controlled, if any) by witches. There are real reports of actual harm caused by incantations. Now, just as zombies and the process of zombification hadn't been actually described until fairly recently in a more scientific context (apparently, zombies are people suffering from a specific form of poison intoxication, done on purpose by ruthless individuals), probably some of those occult instances of witchcraft are also processes that can be logically and scientifically explained, but not just yet.

Maybe.


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## Poetic Device

panjabigator said:


> Are witches real? Sure...followers of Wicca I presume are witches.
> 
> Can they communicate with the devil? No...because, at least for me, there is no such thing as the devil.
> 
> Can they cause harm by incantation? I have never really believed to hard in that...I'd say no. I do believe in ghosts and aliens if at all relevant.
> 
> Witches cannot summon demons (unless this is some sort of a metaphor...inner demons perhaps?)


 
A convorsation that I just had with my Wiccan friend:
 Me:  Questions that he asked:  

</B></U></I>Are witches real? 
Can witches communicate with the devil? 
Can witches cause harm by concantation? 
Are witches able to summon demons?

</B></U></I>Any pointers?

</B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  inconcantation?

</B></U></I>Me:  idk Man.

</B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  otherwise    yes, yes, yes, yes

</B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  the "devil"    is a streach though

</B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  more like  evil beings


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## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> A convorsation that I just had with my Wiccan friend:
> Me: Questions that he asked:
> 
> </B></U></I>Are witches real?
> Can witches communicate with the devil?
> Can witches cause harm by concantation?
> Are witches able to summon demons?
> 
> </B></U></I>Any pointers?
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp: inconcantation?
> 
> </B></U></I>Me: idk Man.
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp: otherwise yes, yes, yes, yes
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp: the "devil" is a streach though
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp: more like evil beings


Wow!
For the first time in my life I am speechless.
This feels awful.
I know that there is something clever going on in there but it is all Greek to me.
I think that I now understand slightly what it must feel like to read some of my more interpretative stuff.

.,,


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## mirx

*Do you believe that witches exist?* They do, there are a lot of women in México who cast all kind of spells, tied up photographs of the "beloved one" with red ribbons, sacrifice black hens, and light up candles at midnight in cemeteries, so exist they do. Do all the things they do have an effect? No they don't is just a dead black hen, a photograph and a red ribbon and a candle in a cemetery.
*Do you know anybody who believes that witches exist?*
I say they do exist, but I don't believe they have any influence in anyone´s behaviour. My mom however, does think that witches can have something to do with someone else' life by means of supernatural forces.
*If witches exist can they communicate with Satan?* I don't beleive in  Satan, but if they are true witches they should be able to do it.
*If witches exist what do we have to fear from them and what can we do to protect ourselves from this fear?*
Open our eyes, say good bye to ignorance.


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## Kajjo

I observe a tremendous lack of clear definition of what a "witch" is in this thread.

witch
1) female member of Wiccan religion
2) normal woman that tries to create the _illusion_ of witchcraft, e.g. "black arts"-like (spells, bloody sacrifices), but who _actually_ is a normal woman without any supernatural abilities
3) woman with supernatural abilities, whose spells and ceremonies have real influence; often connected with satanic relations or black art

Please everyone, distinguish these concepts clearly from each other.

Category 1) certainly exists. It is a fact that there are people who _call_ themselves witches.
Category 2) certainly exists. There are women who do such things like casting spells and leading black art ceremonies.
Category 3) is a question of belief and religion.

I do not believe in any supernatural things and I do not believe in witches that can do real witchcraft.

I figure the original question is solely about category 3 witches.

Kajjo


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## .   1

Kajjo said:


> I observe a tremendous lack of clear definition of what a "witch" is in this thread.
> ...
> 
> I figure the original question is solely about category 3 witches.


Thanks mate.  I was trying to think of saying it not as well as that.

.,,


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## Flaminius

Okay, Kajjo.  Category 3 then.


> Category 3) is a question of belief and religion. I do not believe in any supernatural things and I do not believe in witches that can do real witchcraft.


Existence proof is never a question of belief and religion.  If something exists, the existence is observed by all, regardless of beliefs.  Nothing can exist for those with a belief and not exist for others with a different belief.  If something does not exist, it does not.



If magic power or men and women who communicate with unclean powers are proposed as an explanation of an inauspicious death, a miraculous cure or any other mysterious event, then we are to test that is the best hypothesis to account for the observed phenomena.

However, please do not hasten to crowd this thread with the so-called proofs.  An extraordinary claim requires an extraordinary proof.  Communication with Satan, casting spells, flight on the broomstick; the gamut runs counter to the robust knowledge about the world that humans have accumulated with science.

I do not exclude the possibility that many reports truthfully attest to seemingly magical events.  I doubt, however, if witch hypothesis is necessary to account for them.


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## Kajjo

Flaminius said:


> I do not exclude the possibility that many reports truthfully attest to seemingly magical events.  I doubt, however, if witch hypothesis is necessary to account for them.


You are right. All people prone to believing in supernatural observations should ask themselves if they had understood magicians tricks if they had known it was only a show. It is easy to mistake "what I have seen" with "what is proven". Witches use illusions like magicians, but are able to support their illusions and tricks by employing prejudices, traditions, legends, myths, religious beliefs and so on to help them convey their message. Witches have got an easier job then magicians. No wonder that simple minds readily fall for them.

Kajjo


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## ernest_

Witches are nothing more that people who use drugs to enter an altered state of consciousness in order to transcend the physical world. There's nothing magic in it. It's pure and simple biochemistry.


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## Kajjo

ernest_ said:


> Witches are nothing more that people who use drugs to enter an altered state of consciousness in order to transcend the physical world. There's nothing magic in it. It's pure and simple biochemistry.


You will never transcend the physical world with natural means. Dreams and hallucinations are part of our world. Believing in transcedence is believing in supernatural things.

Kajjo


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## panjabigator

Poetic Device said:


> A convorsation that I just had with my Wiccan friend:
> Me:  Questions that he asked:
> 
> </B></U></I>Are witches real?
> Can witches communicate with the devil?
> Can witches cause harm by concantation?
> Are witches able to summon demons?
> 
> </B></U></I>Any pointers?
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  inconcantation?
> 
> </B></U></I>Me:  idk Man.
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  otherwise    yes, yes, yes, yes
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  the "devil"    is a streach though
> 
> </B></U></I>Sky Devils Imp:  more like  evil beings



Well, I have met a couple people who were wiccan, and when I discussed their faith with them, I never got the impression that they spoke with either evil beings (unless you construe evil beings to be a poor circle of friends) or the devil.  I should of been more forthcoming with my question (I.E., do you worship the devil).

I am really not convinced.


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## ernest_

Kajjo said:


> You will never transcend the physical world with natural means. Dreams and hallucinations are part of our world. Believing in transcedence is believing in supernatural things.



Only if you think that the physical world is _outside_ our mind.


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## Kajjo

ernest_ said:


> Only if you think that the physical world is _outside_ our mind.


Right. This is an obvious and useful concept. This philosophical issue has no real meaning here, because what we discuss is the world as we can asses it by reason, logic and experiments. Whether this world is _inside our mind_ or _outside our mind_ does not matter for reasoning inside the world.

Kajjo


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## CrazyArcher

This is not unlike the "matrix" discussion. We percept the world outside our mind just as well as our senses tell us. 

Also, if you can't prove something experimentally, it doesn't mean that it necessarily isn't true. The technology and the level of science development that we have don't allow us to see how all the things work. There are some phenomena that just can't be explained by science. For instace, if you take a piece of certain kind of ceramic, freeze it with lquid nitrogen and put a small magnet on it, the magnet will hover over the ceramic at pretty tiny (but visible) distance. No one can explain it, but it exists. What is it then, magic?


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## Kajjo

CrazyArcher said:


> Also, if you can't prove something experimentally, it doesn't mean that it necessarily isn't true. The technology and the level of science development that we have don't allow us to see how all the things work.


Of course natural laws and entities can exist, even if we cannot prove them.



> There are some phenomena that just can't be explained by science.


That is not true in the sense you phrase it here. Of course there are phenomena that are difficult to explain, e.g. the origin of gravity. However, that does not mean that they contradict science or science is not a valid tool to do so. It just means that our current state of insight and knowledge or our current technical abilities does not allow us to explain these phenomena.



> For instance, if you take a piece of certain kind of ceramic, freeze it with lquid nitrogen and put a small magnet on it, the magnet will hover over the ceramic at pretty tiny (but visible) distance. No one can explain it, but it exists. What is it then, magic?


Superconducting materials show this behaviour and it is explainable. No miracle here.

Kajjo


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## amnariel

panjabigator said:


> Well, I have met a couple people who were wiccan, and when I discussed their faith with them, I never got the impression that they spoke with either evil beings (unless you construe evil beings to be a poor circle of friends) or the devil.  I should of been more forthcoming with my question (I.E., do you worship the devil).





Yup, you should have been more forthcoming, because wiccans can freely say that God doesn't exist to someone belonging to monotheistic religion. 

I haven't got impression someone spoke to Him lately neither  (I'm not a wiccan by the way, I'm just taking people as they are, everyone, always)


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## .   1

CrazyArcher said:


> There are some phenomena that just can't be explained by science. For instace, if you take a piece of certain kind of ceramic, freeze it with lquid nitrogen and put a small magnet on it, the magnet will hover over the ceramic at pretty tiny (but visible) distance. No one can explain it, but it exists. What is it then, magic?


This is simply Electromagnetic forces interacting not a supernatural force acting.
Lack of comprehension is not proof of failed explanation.

.,,


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## Poetic Device

. said:


> Wow!
> For the first time in my life I am speechless.
> This feels awful.
> I know that there is something clever going on in there but it is all Greek to me.
> I think that I now understand slightly what it must feel like to read some of my more interpretative stuff.
> 
> .,,


 
What do you mean something clever?  Do you man the things like <B>?  That's just code from the AIM convorsation.  I tried to get them out but it didn't work.


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## Poetic Device

ernest_ said:


> Witches are nothing more that people who use drugs to enter an altered state of consciousness in order to transcend the physical world. There's nothing magic in it. It's pure and simple biochemistry.


 
Ummm.....  No.  Sorry.  There are a lot of Wiccans/witches that do not touch drugs at all.  If you are talking about people turning into werewolves then I could understand that.  (From what I understand the "potion" that they used to transform was majorly mind altering.)


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## Poetic Device

panjabigator said:


> Well, I have met a couple people who were wiccan, and when I discussed their faith with them, I never got the impression that they spoke with either evil beings (unless you construe evil beings to be a poor circle of friends) or the devil. I should of been more forthcoming with my question (I.E., do you worship the devil).
> 
> I am really not convinced.


 

I think that if they worshiped the devil then they would be known as Satanists, no?


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## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> What do you mean something clever? Do you man the things like <B>? That's just code from the AIM convorsation. I tried to get them out but it didn't work.


Are witches real? 
Can witches communicate with the devil? 
Can witches cause harm by concantation? 
Are witches able to summon demons?

Me:....................Any pointers?

Sky Devils Imp: ..inconcantation?

Me: ....................idk Man.

Sky Devils Imp: ...otherwise yes, yes, yes, yes

Sky Devils Imp: ...the "devil" is a streach though

Sky Devils Imp: ...more like evil beings

I understand this to be a conversation between you and Sky Devils Imp.
I do not understand who Sky Devils Imp refers to.
I do not understand the response 'inconcantation?'
I do not understand the response 'idk Man."
I am then totally lost with what flows from that.

I feel like a blind man in the land of the sighted.
There is something clever there but I can't fathom it.

.,,


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## la reine victoria

I am not a friend of, but an acquaintance of, two witches who live not far from me.  They always insisted that they practised "white magic".  

Whenever I met them (usually on the bus) they would talk about their "religion" to the point of boredom.

Recently, I met one of them on her own.  "Where's your friend?," I politely enquired.  "I do hope she isn't ill."

"Oh! She's very ill," she replied.  "She's in a mental hospital.  We are no longer friends."

She didn't give me any futher explanation.  I can only assume that the witchcraft business had got out of hand.

We have plenty of "black witches" over here, who claim to be able to summon up the Devil.  They have sex orgies in the woods, desecrate churches and hold "black masses".

My opinion of them is that they are weirdos who should be avoided.

LRV


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## .   1

la reine victoria said:


> "Oh! She's very ill," she replied. "She's in a mental hospital. We are no longer friends."
> 
> She didn't give me any futher explanation. I can only assume that the witchcraft business had got out of hand.


What is the link between witchcraft and mental illness?
This woman could have been born bi-polar or schizophrenic or psychotic.

Why do you assume that the witchcraft business got out of hand and caused her to in a mental hospital?

How do you think that the witchcraft business put this poor woman in a mental hospital?

.,,


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## ernest_

Poetic Device said:


> Ummm.....  No.  Sorry.  There are a lot of Wiccans/witches that do not touch drugs at all.  If you are talking about people turning into werewolves then I could understand that.  (From what I understand the "potion" that they used to transform was majorly mind altering.)



I beg your pardon??

I was talking about witchcraft. Visions. Spirits. Hexes. Spells.  That sort of things. This supposed supernatural stuff is most likely the product of either an intoxicated mind or a deranged one. It is well known that many Amazonian tribes use Ayahuasca, a powerful hallucinogen, in their "magic" rites. Under the effects of Ayahuasca, it's no wonder they can talk to the dead. Most witchcraft episodes in the Middle Ages are now believed to be caused by a parasite that infects cereals. This parasite, known as Claviceps purpurea or ergot, contains certain alkaloids of a highly hallucinogenic nature. Ergotamine is a chemical precursor of lysergic acid, actually.  

I don't know much about these Wicca thing you talk about, but I doubt these people are capable of performing even the most unimpressive "magic". They are just a bunch of pamby-namby New Age occult loonies, in my opinion.


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## amnariel

. said:


> What is the link between witchcraft and mental illness?
> This woman could have been born bi-polar or schizophrenic or psychotic.
> 
> Why do you assume that the witchcraft business got out of hand and caused her to in a mental hospital?
> 
> How do you think that the witchcraft business put this poor woman in a mental hospital?
> 
> .,,




I'm not defending la reine victoria, but what she wrote would be most common explanation in my country. This just shows that "ordinary" people have no knowledge about anything defferent than their beliefs and that witchcraft is considered evil troughout centuries, ergo running people into madness, mental illness etc.


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## badgrammar

Well, I can't really say I believe in witches or witchcraft, but I don't particularly not believe either.  Same for any number of "supernatural" phenomena.  In many case seemingly inexplicable things, in the end, have rational explanations.  Sometimes we cannot find the rational explanations, even though they exist.  

And maybe sometimes, certain people/places/things are able to tap into "energies" or whatever you wish to call them, and they can manipulate them in a way that your average Joe cannot.  I certainly believe that we "mere mortals" do not have or use the mental power necessary to mobilize less tangible forces, and perhaps an exceptional few can.  Then again, I will always be skeptical and look for the logical explanation. 

I have had Wiccan friends in the past.  An odd bunch, from my point of view, but certainly NOT evil, or satanists.  Those are different concepts.  Perhaps they can be combined, but that is not the norm.

From the wiki entry on it: _"Wiccan morality is summarised in a brief statement found within a text called the Wiccan Rede: "An it harm none, do what you will." ("An" is an archaic word meaning "if".)"_


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## Omnipotent

Kajjo said:


> You will never transcend the physical world with natural means. Dreams and hallucinations are part of our world. Believing in transcedence is believing in supernatural things.
> 
> Kajjo


 
Exactly.

There is no such thing as the supernatural. Anything that _can_ happen in this world is _part_ of this world. Even if there is an explanation yet to be discovered and applied.

Much of science has at some point been considered magic.

As far as witches being able to communicate with the Devil - no. Because there is no such thing as the Devil. Any more than there is a Zeus or an Aphrodite.

Certainly, there are those people who adhere to the Wiccan religion who apply the label Witch to themselves and believe in various spells - a lover's hair wrapped in toad excrement and held above the head as the "witch" dances about a camp fire at precisely 10.30pm in a particular month - all that kind of nonsense.

And then there are those witches and warlocks who consider that magic is a matter of applied psychology in order to produce pragmatic results within this carnal realm - those people call themselves Satanists and adhere to the philosophy laid down by Anton Szandor LaVey and upheld by The Church Of Satan which he founded in 1966.


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## badgrammar

Omnipotent said:


> And then there are those witches and warlocks who consider that magic is a matter of applied psychology in order to produce pragmatic results within this carnal realm - those people call themselves Satanists and adhere to the philosophy laid down by Anton Szandor LaVey and upheld by The Church Of Satan which he founded in 1966.



But why are they satanists?  Would that not imply, first of all, a belief in "God", and second of all, the intent to do harm?  Could not these people be Wiccans or some other brand of magic-doers than satanists?  The Wiccans I knew before did not consider themselves satanists.  They were pagans or animists, but no "devil worship" was involved.

Perhaps I have the wrong impression of what it is to be a "satanist"?


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## Omnipotent

badgrammar said:


> But why are they satanists? Would that not imply, first of all, a belief in "God", and second of all, the intent to do harm? Could not these people be Wiccans or some other brand of magic-doers than satanists? The Wiccans I knew before did not consider themselves satanists. They were pagans or animists, but no "devil worship" was involved.
> 
> Perhaps I have the wrong impression of what it is to be a "satanist"?


 
To Satanists, the term "Satan" stands an archetype. The questioner and challenger of futile belief systems. Satan represents human nature and stands against religious doctrines that are in opposition to the true nature of man. It is seen as far more useful and pragmatic to work with what we as humans _are, _rather than to try and deny it and transcend our natural inclinations.

There is no Devil worship involved since they do not believe in any metaphysical or transcendental deities. Devil worshippers are seen as essentially inverse Christians.


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## badgrammar

Thank you for that clarification, I had a feeling I, like probably most other people, had a false idea of what "satanism" is.  You gotta' admit, it is a confusing term  !


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## Alxmrphi

There is no such thing as the devil in Witchcraft.

As for this whole "female-orientated" thing.

Wicca was brought to light in the mid 1900's by a *male* called Gerald Gardenner, who was the leader of "The New Forest Coven", considered to be the father of modern Witchcraft, with a less stigmatic name, Wicca.

Another *male *front runner of the interlinked but much disputed similar faith was Aleister Crowly, though he was considered more in a Thelmic religion.
There are various debates such as "*Gerald Gardner- Wicca's Founder or Crowley's Henchman?"*

The stereotype of the female sorceress from Macbeth is well outdated and widely known as a stereotype.

* Come on people, get with the times.

*


			
				Short Biography of Gerald Gardener said:
			
		

> Born: June 13th 1884 at Great Cosby, near Blundell Sands in Lancashire, England.
> He began travelling at the age of four; his nursemaid took him to warmer climates to help alleviate his asthma.
> He had jobs planting tea and rubber in the far East. He eventually became Customs Officer until he retired in 1936.
> He was inoitiated into the Forest Coven, A traditional Wicca Coven by "Old Dorothy" - Dorothy Clutterbuck - in September, 1939. He published "High Magick's Aid", a fictional account of witches, in 1949 under the pen-name Scire.
> 
> After the repeal of witchcraft laws in Britain in 1951, Gardner published "Witchcraft Today" in 1954, a non-fictional account of modern witchcraft. *He became a spokesperson for the pagan community,* and was ultimately invited to a reception at Buckingham Palace in 1960. Gardner died: February 13th, 1964, while returning from abroad on the SS Scottish Prince.


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## la reine victoria

. said:


> What is the link between witchcraft and mental illness?
> This woman could have been born bi-polar or schizophrenic or psychotic.
> 
> Why do you assume that the witchcraft business got out of hand and caused her to in a mental hospital?
> 
> How do you think that the witchcraft business put this poor woman in a mental hospital?
> 
> .,,


 
I've only just seen your post, otherwise I would have replied sooner.

People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill.  They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft.  This is abnormal behaviour.  I'm not surprised she became mentally ill.

I appear to have answered all your questions (which aren't really varied, and somewhat superfluous - the first one would have sufficed) in one paragraph.

You make a lot of assumptions in your second sentence about someone you have never set eyes on.

LRV


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## Alxmrphi

la reine victoria said:


> I've only just seen your post, otherwise I would have replied sooner.
> 
> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill. They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft. This is abnormal behaviour. I'm not surprised she became mentally ill.
> 
> I appear to have answered all your questions (which aren't really varied, and somewhat superfluous - the first one would have sufficed) in one paragraph.
> 
> * You make a lot of assumptions in your second sentence about someone you have never set eyes on.*
> 
> LRV



As do you victoria, in_ your _second sentence.


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## Sallyb36

la reine victoria said:


> I've only just seen your post, otherwise I would have replied sooner.
> 
> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill.  They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft.  This is abnormal behaviour.  I'm not surprised she became mentally ill.  I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BECOME OBSESSED WITH ANY RELIGION!
> 
> I appear to have answered all your questions (which aren't really varied, and somewhat superfluous - the first one would have sufficed) in one paragraph.
> 
> You make a lot of assumptions in your second sentence about someone you have never set eyes on.
> 
> LRV



People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill.  They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft.  This is abnormal behaviour

I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BECOME OBSESSED WITH ANY RELIGION!


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## badgrammar

As the sister of a mentally ill person, I would ask which comes first - the obsession or the illness.  I'd say it's the latter, and some mentally ill will become obsessed with anything from Space Invaders to photography to cleanliness to religion and beyond.  So it is not the thing they are obsessed with that makes them mentally ill, but the illness that fosters their obsessions.

I'm not saying that anyone here stated the contrary, just pointing that out. 

That some mentally ill people get involved in sorcery is not surprising. But I doubt sorcery attracts more mentally ill people than any other occupation.


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## Poetic Device

. said:


> Are witches real?
> Can witches communicate with the devil?
> Can witches cause harm by concantation?
> Are witches able to summon demons?
> 
> Me:....................Any pointers?
> 
> Sky Devils Imp: ..inconcantation?
> 
> Me: ....................idk Man.
> 
> Sky Devils Imp: ...otherwise yes, yes, yes, yes
> 
> Sky Devils Imp: ...the "devil" is a streach though
> 
> Sky Devils Imp: ...more like evil beings
> 
> I understand this to be a conversation between you and Sky Devils Imp.
> I do not understand who Sky Devils Imp refers to.
> I do not understand the response 'inconcantation?'
> I do not understand the response 'idk Man."
> I am then totally lost with what flows from that.
> 
> I feel like a blind man in the land of the sighted.
> There is something clever there but I can't fathom it.
> 
> .,,


 

Oooohhhhh....  Okay.  Naw, Man.  There's nothing clever about it.  Just Yankism.  (Wow, that sounded wrong...)  Basically, this was an instant message between my friend and herself.  Sky Devils Imp is just her name.  Sky is her nickname and because she is this skinny little redhead that loves mischief we call her the devil's imp.  Nothing secret or anything.  When she replied with "inconcantations" I unfortunately had no idea what she was talking about, so I replied with "idk, Man."  Basically, that is "I don't know, Man."  It was my way of saying that I had no clue what she was talking about and I thought that she was crazy.


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## maxiogee

Sallyb36 said:


> la reine victoria said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill. They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft. This is abnormal behaviour. I'm not surprised she became mentally ill. I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BECOME OBSESSED WITH ANY RELIGION!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill.  They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft.  This is abnormal behaviour
> 
> I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BECOME OBSESSED WITH ANY RELIGION!
Click to expand...


What is the point of shouting what has already been shouted, word for word, by HRH?
Is it not normal practice just to quote the piece and say "I agree". All you have done is to exclude seven words. You could have struck them out.


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## Alxmrphi

She had trouble adding color to the part after I sent her a PM saying she should, apparently it isn't working so she seperated the existing post and tried to make out what her comment was.


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## Etcetera

. said:


> Do you believe that witches exist?
> Do you know anybody who believes that witches exist?


Personally, I don't believe in witches. Of course, there a lots of advertisements in newspapers from witches and magicians, but... we know these stories, don't we?
But it seems that there are quite a lot of people here who believe in all that. Well, they may not believe in ads, but they may go to a "witch" on an acquaitance's recommendations. Utterly stupid, if you ask me.


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## Poetic Device

ernest_ said:


> I beg your pardon??
> 
> I was talking about witchcraft. Visions. Spirits. Hexes. Spells. That sort of things. This supposed supernatural stuff is most likely the product of either an intoxicated mind or a deranged one. It is well known that many Amazonian tribes use Ayahuasca, a powerful hallucinogen, in their "magic" rites. Under the effects of Ayahuasca, it's no wonder they can talk to the dead. Most witchcraft episodes in the Middle Ages are now believed to be caused by a parasite that infects cereals. This parasite, known as Claviceps purpurea or ergot, contains certain alkaloids of a highly hallucinogenic nature. Ergotamine is a chemical precursor of lysergic acid, actually.
> 
> I don't know much about these Wicca thing you talk about, but I doubt these people are capable of performing even the most unimpressive "magic". They are just a bunch of pamby-namby New Age occult loonies, in my opinion.


 

My point is that you do not have to have any drugs in your system in order to see or experience any of the things that you mentioned. There are pleanty of straight-edged people of many beliefs and religons that have had things happen to and around them. I feel that it is very unwise and judgemental for you to make such a dissmissive statement.  As far as whether or not they are able to perform any form of magic is concerned, if you believe in something deep enough it will happen...  IMO


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## Poetic Device

Sallyb36 said:


> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill. They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft. This is abnormal behaviour
> 
> I WOULD SAY THIS ABOUT PEOPLE WHO BECOME OBSESSED WITH ANY RELIGION!


 
That's the case with anything.  It's not just religion.  Besides, mental illness does not just come with/because of obsession.  It's more of a chemical inbalance in the brain.  It has nothing to do with obsession...


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## .   1

la reine victoria said:


> People who mess around with the paranormal - and I include witchcraft in this category - can become so obsessed with it that they become mentally ill.


What is the paranormal?



la reine victoria said:


> They lose touch with reality, concentrating only on their fixation with witchcraft. This is abnormal behaviour. I'm not surprised she became mentally ill.


How do you know she became mentally ill?  
Are you aware of the point at which she stopped being normal and started being abnormal?
Are you aware of all of the incidents in her life that impinged upon her at the point she became abnormal?



la reine victoria said:


> I appear to have answered all your questions (which aren't really varied, and somewhat superfluous - the first one would have sufficed) in one paragraph.


Nope.

*First question.*
_What is the link between witchcraft and mental illness?
This woman could have been born bi-polar or schizophrenic or psychotic._

You gave your opinion that dabbling with the paranormal causes mental illness but the mechanisms involved were a bit sketchy.

*Second question.*
_Why do you assume that the witchcraft business got out of hand and caused her to in a mental hospital?_

You gave a vague sort of statement that these sorts of things always get out of hand.
That being the case I am surprised that our mental wards are not bursting at the seams with deranged witches.
Statistics display the paucity of this claim.

_*Question three*
How do you think that the witchcraft business put this poor woman in a mental hospital?__
_ 
Being mentally ill is no guarantee of a bed in a mental hospital.
What was so severe about this woman's reaction to witchcraft that resulted in her becoming so ill that she requires hospitalisation.



la reine victoria said:


> You make a lot of assumptions in your second sentence about someone you have never set eyes on.


I made suggestions about a person that you told me is in a mental institution.
You reckon that she became abnormal because she dabbled with witchcraft.
I reckon that she may have become abnormal because she may have been born with a chemical imbalance of the brain.  My hypothesis is easy to test on an Electroencephalograph.

How do you test your theory of abnormality?

.,,


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## .   1

Poetic Device said:


> That's the case with anything. It's not just religion. Besides, mental illness does not just come with/because of obsession. It's more of a chemical inbalance in the brain. It has nothing to do with obsession...


Thanks mate.
I didn't notice your post when I was replying, I seemed to have dust in my eyes or something at the time but they have now dried.
I utterly agree.

.,,


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## Alxmrphi

. said:


> Thanks mate.
> I didn't notice your post when I was replying, I seemed to have dust in my eyes or something at the time but they have now dried.
> I utterly agree.
> 
> .,,


If you utterly agree with that post, then it seems you already made your mind up even before you started the thread!


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## Poetic Device

whether or not witches are real and whether or not people think that they are witches because of a mental illness are two different things.  Do you have any experience with mentally ilo patients?  If you did then yoiu would understand that.  Just because one thinks that there are five different people that they share their body with does not mean that is true...


----------



## .   1

Alex_Murphy said:


> If you utterly agree with that post, then it seems you already made your mind up even before you started the thread!


There is no mention of witches at all in the thread I utterly agreed with!

What would it matter if I had made my mind up about a question?
I don't ask a question to hear my own head roar.
I am interested in the opinions of others on many subjects.
Perhaps I am convinced one way and am hoping to have my mind changed but no compelling argument has yet been proffered.
Maybe I want to believe in witches.

I ask questions for many reasons and I obtain answers in many forms.

.,,


----------



## alexacohen

Hello:
*Do you believe that witches exist?* 
It would depend on what you call a witch. My neighbour is one. She calls herself a witch. She reads the future on cards, and explain to people what their dreams mean, and things like that. 
But as she is also the most notorious local gossip, it's no wonder she can read the "future" and be right 90 times out of then.
But no, she can't fly around on a broomstick or talk with the devil.
*Do you know anybody who believes that witches exist?*
Yes, all the people who come and ask me if this is the right way to the witch's house. 
*If witches exist can they communicate with Satan?* 
I don't think so, no.
*If witches exist what do we have to fear from them and what can we do to protect ourselves from this fear?*
I have no fear of my neighbour. But the people who come to see her had better check on their savings, because she charges outrageously for her services.
One "recipe" I got for free:
Pick all the petals of a red rose at midnight on summers solstice. Put them on a white plate (the plate must be totally white and have no defects). Leave the plate with the petals overnight on your windowsill. The next morning wrap the rose petals in a silk handkerchief, along with a piece of paper with the name of your beloved. Put the wrapping under your pillow and sleep with it under your pillow for one cycle of the moon. Your beloved will come back to you.
There is a saying here:
Eu non creo nas meigas, pero haberlas, haylas.
I don't believe in witchcraft, but as for witches, there are some!
(just in case.... )
Alexa


----------

