# Oğlan kendisine küçük gelen bir gömlek giyiyor - [Grammar]



## Arabus

Hello,

Can somebody literally translate this sentence for me. I don't understand the phrase "kendisine küçük gelen". 

I suppose that "küçük gelen" is an adjectival phrase that means "small," but I don't understand the role of "gelen."

I don't understand the suffixes of "kendisine." Why is not it just "kendi?"

Teşekkürler,


----------



## Rallino

_Küçük gelmek_ and _Büyük gelmek_ are expressions used for clothes, simply to mention that the particular piece of clothing doesn't fit the person either because it is too tight or large for the body.

Although these two are expressions, it doesn't mean that they won't follow standard grammatical rules. "Gelmek" still requires a dative.

Kendisine küçük gelen = which is tight/small-sized for himself. _(lit. which comes tight to himself)
_ 
If you're wondering why "kendisine" and not "kendine"; that's a whole different question. Both can be used, I had thought about it when I was teaching Turkish, but I couldn't come to a decision as to which one is actually the grammatically correct one.


----------



## Arabus

Thank you.


----------



## Eline0909

kendi and kendisi (=himself/herself) has the same meaning.

Kendi konuyu açtı= Kendisi konuyu açtı= he/she ( actually lit. himself/herself) started the subject

Kendi benim evime geldi= kendisi benim evime geldi= he/she ( actually lit. himself/herself) came to my place/home

Kendine sor= 1. ask (to) yourself or 2. ask (to) himself/herself

Kendisine sor= ask (to) himself/herself

Kendi kendine karar vermiş= he/she has decided by himself/herself

Kendi kendime oturuyorum= I am sitting by myself

Kendi kendilerine oturuyorlar= They are sitting by themselves

kendi kendimize oturuyoruz= We are sitting by ourselves

Kendi kendisine oturuyor= he/she is sitting by himself/herself

Kendinin derdi başka= kendisinin derdi başka (=Onun derdi başka)= his/her problem is different


kendisine= to/for himself, to/for herself

Kendisine bir soru sor= ask to him/her (actually lit. himself/herself) a question

Kendi küçük geliyor= he/she ( actually lit. himself/herself) is too small (for something)

Kendisine küçük geliyor= (It) is too small for himself/herself


----------



## Eline0909

Kendisine küçük gelen bir gömlek giyiyor= he/she is wearing a shirt which is too small for himself/herself

Kendi küçük gelen bir gömlek giyiyor= he/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is wearing a shirt which is too small.


----------



## Arabus

Thank you Eline. So I noticed one difference between kendi and kendisi from your examples: kendi can mean "yourself," but kendisi cannot.


----------



## Eline0909

1.* Kendi* bir şişe su alıyor= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water

2.* Kendisi* bir şişe su alıyor= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself is buying a bottle of water

So the sentences 1 and 2 have exactly the same meaning

...............

3. Kendi-*ne* bir şişe su *alıyor*= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water *for* himself/herself 

The ending -ne indicates for/to


Sentences 3 and 5 have the same meaning.


4.* Kendi-ne* bir şişe su alıyor-*sun*= *you* (actually lit. yourself) are buying a bottle of water *for* *yourself*

In sentence 4 for the ending -ne indicates for/to and the ending -sun _you_

_P.S. compare with _*Kendisi-ne* bir şişe su alıyor-*sun*= *you* (actually lit. yourself) are buying a bottle of water *for* *himself/herself*



5.Kendisi-*ne* bir şişe su *alıyor*= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water *for* himself/herself 


P.S. In *imperative* form means kendi-*ne* both 1. for/to _himself/herself_ and 2. for/to _yourself_


Kendi-ne bak= 1. look at (lit. for/to) yourself or look at (lit. for/to)himself/herself


2. Take care of yourself


Kendi-ne güven= 1. Trust (lit. for/to) yourself or 2. trust (for/to)himself/herself


----------



## Rallino

Eline0909 said:


> 1.* Kendi* bir şişe su alıyor= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water
> 
> 2.* Kendisi* bir şişe su alıyor= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself is buying a bottle of water
> 
> So the sentences 1 and 2 have exactly the same meaning
> 
> ...............
> 
> 3. Kendi-*ne* bir şişe su *alıyor*= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water *for* himself/herself
> 
> The ending -ne indicates for/to
> 
> 
> Sentences 3 and 5 have the same meaning.
> 
> 
> 4.* Kendi-ne* bir şişe su alıyor-*sun*= *you* (actually lit. yourself) are buying a bottle of water *for* *yourself*
> 
> In sentence 4 for the ending -ne indicates for/to and the ending -sun _you_
> 
> _P.S. compare with _*Kendisi-ne* bir şişe su alıyor-*sun*= *you* (actually lit. yourself) are buying a bottle of water *for* *himself/herself*
> 
> 
> 
> 5.Kendisi-*ne* bir şişe su *alıyor*= He/she (actually lit. himself/herself) is buying a bottle of water *for* himself/herself
> 
> 
> P.S. In *imperative* form means kendi-*ne* both 1. for/to _himself/herself_ and 2. for/to _yourself_
> 
> 
> Kendi-ne bak= 1. look at (lit. for/to) yourself or look at (lit. for/to)himself/herself
> 
> 
> 2. Take care of yourself
> 
> 
> Kendi-ne güven= 1. Trust (lit. for/to) yourself or 2. trust (for/to)himself/herself




You should note that:

*kendi-ne *means only "to himself/herself"

*Kendin-e* means "to yourself"

So the suffixes are actually different. In the first one "n" is just a buffer. In the second one, it's the possession suffix for "sen".


----------



## Arabus

Rallino said:


> You should note that:
> 
> *kendi-ne *means only "to himself/herself"
> 
> *Kendin-e* means "to yourself"
> 
> So the suffixes are actually different. In the first one "n" is just a buffer. In the second one, it's the possession suffix for "sen".



So kendi and kendisi can't mean yourself?


----------



## Rallino

Arabus said:


> So kendi and kendisi can't mean yourself?



No, never.


----------



## Arabus

Thanks.....


----------



## Eline0909

Rallino said:


> No, never.


 

The original word is kendi=kendisi= himself/herself Check even the following link:

http://tdkterim.gov.tr/bts/

But the point is, with different endings, added to the word *kendi and kendisi*, you can even transfer the meaning of these words to something else. The meaning of the word *kendi* will be changed to, *for/to yourself* by adding *-ne,* that is to say* kendi-ne.*

However if you add *-ne* to the end of the word *kendisi *the word will *NOT *mean to/for yourself, but *to/for himself/herself. *


----------



## Rallino

Eline0909 said:


> [...]
> But the point is, with different endings, added to the word *kendi*, you can even transfer the meaning of the word to *to yourself=kendi-ne*
> [...]



Yes, I was only point out that, although the result was the same, the suffixes used in the process were different.


----------

