# Yemeni: Tali,3ijl



## Nikola

7abiba tishti tuTbukh 2akl yamani bass yumkin hi ma tilga la7m Tali  lyoom. ma bi moshkila. tigdar tishtari 3ijl. 
This is the context. What do Tali and 3ijl mean?


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## Josh_

I'm not sure what 'Tali' is, but '3igl' is veal.


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## WadiH

طلي is a young sheep.


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## WadiH

Josh_ said:


> '3igl' is veal.



That may be the original meaning, but in most Arabic countries it usually refers to beef in general.


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## ayed

la7m Tali : *لحم طلي* "*lamb mutton*" but it is implied by "mutton" in your mother-tongue.
I agree with Wadi"beef" because the speaker refers to the meat not the animal itself.


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## Mahaodeh

Interesting, so that's where the Iraqi Tili for sheep comes from!


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## Josh_

ayed said:


> la7m Tali : *لحم طلي* "*lamb mutton*" but it is implied by "mutton" in your mother-tongue.
> I agree with Wadi"beef" because the speaker refers to the meat not the animal itself.


Actually, in English 'veal' is a reference to the meat.  A reference to the animal would be 'calf.'  But from what you guys say, though, I see that 3ijl refers to beef in general, not just veal.


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## djara

Josh_ said:


> ... though, I see that 3ijl refers to beef in general, not just veal.



Not so in Tunisian, _3ijl _is used specifically for veal while _baqri _is used for beef. By the way, we use _3allouch _for (young) lamb.


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## Nikola

Thanks everybody. I wonder if Yemenis use 3ijl for veal as in Tunisian, I have heard bagari in Yemen also. What about Egypt? I noticed Josh wrote 3igl as Egyptians pronounce it.


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## Josh_

Just noticed that .  I guess I did that out of force of habit.  Even now, when I read Arabic, I'll find myself pronouncing the ج as a 'g' instead of a 'j'. Anyway, the first time I heard the word I looked it up and it said calf/veal, and I've been using that way ever since.  I never gave it much thought.  And thinking back about when I've used it with, and heard it used by, native Egyptian speakers in real life situations I could have sworn it was being used to mean veal, as opposed to لحمة بقر, but in light of this thread I guess I am not sure anymore. So I'm also curious to know how it's used in Egypt.


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## reletomp

Tali and 3ijl :tali means next (NEXT DAY IN THAT SENTENSE)aJEL MEANS AS SOON AS POSSIBLE (BUY AS SOON AS POSSIBLE IN THE SENTENSE)


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## Mahaodeh

Welcome to the forum reletomp; what he's asking about is: طِلْي وعِجْل = sheep and calf; not تَلِي وعَاجِل.


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## cherine

3egl is calf. Veal's meat is لحمة بتلو la7ma'btello. Some people say لحمة عجّالي la7ma 3aggaaly.
The beef is usually just la7ma without specification, or shambari شمبري or la7ma ba2ari لحمة بقري . But when we're buying from the butcher, we don't usually ask for لحمة بقري it's one of the other two: "shambari" or simply "la7ma", becaue it's the most common meat in Egypt, unlike in other Arab countries where sheep or camel's meat is the most common.
Sheep's meat is Daani لحمة ضاني .


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## Josh_

Thanks Cherine for the clarification.  I have always found it fascinating how لحمة usually refers to only beef, veal, and sometimes sheep and other similar animals.  It is, however, almost never used to refer to poultry or fish.  This is different from the English word 'meat' which is a blanket term referring to the flesh of any animal.


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## elroy

In Palestinian Arabic "la7me" is only used to refer to red meat (and pork, which some consider white meat), but not specifically to beef.  Beef is "3ijel" (or "la7met 3ijel") and lamb is "kharuuf" (or "la7met kharuuf").  For once, it's pretty straightforward. 

By the way, while I know that the English word "meat" can refer to poultry, my Arabic colors my perception of the word so when I hear it I don't think of chicken but red meat... although even in English people joke about chicken and the like not being "real meat."


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## MarcB

In many Yemeni dialects 3ijl is veal and la7ma bagari is beef.


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## Mahaodeh

Josh_ said:


> I have always found it fascinating how لحمة usually refers to only beef, veal, and sometimes sheep and other similar animals.


 
Actually, that's not accurate. I personally use لحم دجاج ولحم سمك ولحم حبش; although in most cases dropping the word la7am makes sense because it's obvious. La7am, by the way, is also used to refer to human flesh.

In fus7a, it is in fact used to refer to poultry and fish too:

In suurat alwaaqi3a aya 21: وَلَحْمِ طَيْرٍ مِمَّا يَشْتَهُونَ


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## ayed

Thanks a lot, Mahaodeh.It slipped my mind


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## Josh_

I think I might have been too general in my last post.  Alas, I think we tend to overgeneralize our own understandings of things (which itself may be an overgeneralization). 

As far as meat for the purpose of eating, in my experience (with Egyptians) the word seems to generally only refer to beef. Like when going to the butcher I might hear someone say they want a pound of لحمة and a pound of سمك.  At any rate, as we can tell from this thread the exact use of the word, and what it refers to, differs from region to region.

True, the flesh of humans is also referred to as لحم  (I can think of several (Egyptian) expressions that use the word with this meaning) but not in the same way that the word is used to refer to animal meat that can be eaten (unless we are talking about cannibalism), which is what I was referring to in this thread.

Anyway, this has caused me to think that perhaps the usage differs depending on what we are talking about (as well as differing from region to region).  When لحم(ـة)ـ refers to food its usage is more specific (depending on region of course), but when used to refer to flesh in general, such as when describing a quality of flesh or meat, then it is more general.  For example when ordering fish to eat one may generally say سمك only, but when describing that fish meat contains omega-3 fatty acids one would use لحم السمك.


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## Xence

elroy said:


> Beef is "3ijel" (or "la7met 3ijel") and lamb is "kharuuf" (or "la7met kharuuf"). For once, it's pretty straightforward.


Same in Algerian. We just drop some "annoying" vowels! 
_(lham) 3jel_
_(lham) hkruuf_

But whenever I go to Tunisia, I ask for a roasted "_ras 3allush_"


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## xebonyx

elroy said:


> By the way, while I know that the English word "meat" can refer to poultry, my Arabic colors my perception of the word so when I hear it I don't think of chicken but red meat... although even in English people joke about chicken and the like not being "real meat."


 
True, this is another linguistic-cultural discrepancy that has been troublesome for me in the past. The times when I was vegan and vegetarian, I would say لا آكل اللحم to simplify things and confuse matters less, but the overwhelming response would be to offer me fish or chicken. 

It could also be because strict vegetarian/vegan dietary communities aren't, to an extent, as widespread in most non European countries.


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## xebonyx

Josh_ said:


> For example when ordering fish to eat one may generally say سمك only, but when describing that fish meat contains omega-3 fatty acids one would use لحم السمك.


 
I find this _very_ interesting.  Thanks for the info, Josh.


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