# village idiot



## Encolpius

Hello, here is the definition, i.e: a person of very low intelligence resident and well known in a village. What do you call it in Polish? Thanks.


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## Ben Jamin

Głupi Jasio (Stupid Jack), głupek wioskowy (village fool).


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## Encolpius

Ben Jamin said:


> ... głupek wioskowy (village fool).



Thanks, I was interested in something like your second example.


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## MasterPolish

Encolpius said:


> Thanks, I was interested in something like your second example.



Let me point out that the former (actually Głupi Jaś in its non-regional form) is mostly a name for one of these:
1. a game where 3 or more people play. One is standing in the middle and is trying to catch the ball others are trying to pass to each other. If he catches the ball, the unsuccessful thrower has to swap places with the former Głupi Jaś.
2. colloquial for "anaesthesia" that makes you behave odd (instead of blacking out). For instance: _dziwnie zachowywać się po głupim jasiu_ (to behave eerily after anaesthesia), _dostać głupiego jasia_ (to get anaesthesized). Can be in a form of a pill, an injection or inhalation (think of YouTube videos of Americans after a dentist visit).
3. colloquial for "to go crazy": _mój kot dostał głupiego jasia w środku nocy_ (my cat went crazy in the middle of the night). Not sure about the first two, but this has to be the least frequent use in common Polish.

Now, the form _głupek wioskowy _apparently exists and is quite frequent, but I have somehow never heard it in my life as far as my memory goes. The form I have always heard (in common Polish contexts) is *wiejski głupek*. Google search confirms that this form is more frequent (5660 hits) than (from most to least frequent): _głupek wioskowy _(4060), _wioskowy głupek _(3740), _głupek wiejski _(1290).


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## jasio

MasterPolish said:


> 2. colloquial for "anaesthesia" that makes you behave odd (instead of blacking out).


Not necessarily. It's common to ask personnel in hospitals for 'Głupi Jasio' meaning a sleeping pill or a similar medication.


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## MasterPolish

I beg to differ.
Unless it's in a medical textbook or on the medicine itelf, it's a colloquial name. If they use it as a replacement for a technical/specialistic term, it's a colloquialism practically by definition.
Just because doctors use a term doesn't automatically make it a medical term. The fact that the population knows this one but not pharmaceutical names reinforces my point.
Frequency (almost) has nothing to do with being colloquial.
I dare you to bring me a medical report containing “pacjentowi zapodano głupiego jasia i amiloryd-hydrochlorotiazyd, po czym…” and I double dare you to quote a police report in the vein of “po looknięciu na materiał dowodowy, policja stwierdziła, że…” 
Also, I wouldn't capitalize the term – in that use it's a common name.


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## Encolpius

Thanks, very interesting answers.


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## jasio

MasterPolish said:


> I beg to differ.
> Unless it's in a medical textbook or on the medicine itelf, it's a colloquial name. If they use it as a replacement for a technical/specialistic term, it's a colloquialism practically by definition.


You completely missed my point, or maybe I was not clear enough. 
I've never claimed that 'głupi jasio' is a medical term. Albeit commonly used in hospitals - though rather by patients, nurses and lower personnel than by the medics, It's so *obvious* colloquialism that I'm really surprised that you might have taken it for a medical term. I do not agree however with your claim that it refers (only) to medications which provoke a strange behaviour. On the contrary: in the context of hospitals I've heard it ONLY referring to medications which make you sleep. 



MasterPolish said:


> Now, the form _głupek wioskowy _apparently exists and is quite frequent, but I have somehow never heard it in my life as far as my memory goes. The form I have always heard (in common Polish contexts) is *wiejski głupek*.


As far as my language sensitivity is concerned, '_wioskowy głupek_' is not quite the same as '_wiejski głupek_'. I understand the former as typically referring to the most stupid / mentally weak person from a particular village, ie. person whose social role *in the given society* is the role of the fool. In that sense, every village may have its own '_wioskowy głupek_' (or '_miejscowy głupek_'). The latter however is more 'a stupid redneck', ie. a general description of an uneducated person living in or coming from the country.


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## MasterPolish

Oh, well, sorry, now that I re-read your original post I see that indeed, I got confused—I blame it on sleep deprivation. Now that I think of that, it indeed might mean a sleeping pill, but I am 100% certain it encompases other forms of such medication as well.

As for wioskowy/wiejski głupek, I lack that distinction in my mental lexicon, nor do I recognize “wioskowy” as belonging to it, so I defer.


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## jasio

MasterPolish said:


> Now that I think of that, it indeed might mean a sleeping pill, but I am 100% certain it encompases other forms of such medication as well.


If you mean other physical forms (like a liquid for example or an injection) then of course - the name 'głupi jasio' refers to a desired effect, not to the specific way of administering.


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## MasterPolish

jasio said:


> If you mean other physical forms (like a liquid for example or an injection) then of course - the name 'głupi jasio' refers to a desired effect, not to the specific way of administering.


But also that the desired effect need not be a total blackout, but also just partial premedication. You can easily find google hits in that vein: example 1, example 2 (both from the first page of results).


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## jasio

MasterPolish said:


> But also that the desired effect need not be a total blackout, but also just partial premedication. You can easily find google hits in that vein: example 1, example 2 (both from the first page of results).


The key word here is the word "also", which was missing from your original post http://forum.wordreference.com/goto/post?id=16478995#post-16478995. 
I preferred to use my own knowledge and a long history of contacts with the hospitals rather than google. However I predicted that you could later try to twist it round and in my post village idiot I made a provision for it by putting the word "only" in parentheses.


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## MasterPolish

Maybe I am reading too much into it, but your wording somehow seems somewhat hostile. Or it was a long day, which it was.
I fail to see a twist in first admitting I overlooked a detail and then admitting that, upon thinking it through, that indeed both meanings work.
I don't see the world "only" in parentheses anywhere else but the post directly above mine–I see a capitalized one. But anyway, since language-negotiation theory assumes that meaning is the sum (and/or the common denominator) of all understandings, I provided the piece of information I knew to be true in my Lebenswelt.
Anyway, I think we have pretty much exhausted the topic beyond the scope Encolpius asked about, hence this was a fruitful discussion, for which I thank you.


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## jasio

You admitted yourself that after you had re-read my post, you understood it differently. Maybe you should do the trick again - this time noting the exact context when I used capitalisation and when I used parenthesis.
Anyway, I fully agree with you that from the OP's point of view we do not add any useful information any more.


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