# Parole al vento



## mizZGiorgia

Buona sera a tutti!!
Come tradurreste voi l'espressione "parole al vento"?
Esempio: Le tue sono solo parole al vento! 
Significa che una persona dice cose vuote di significato. Dice delle cose che non pensa veramente.
Grazie


----------



## rrose17

Of course there are many other ways to say this but something close to the Italian could be
"You're just pulling words out of the air." which means there's not much meaning behind them.
To be even more emphatic you could say
"You're just pulling words out of thin air."


----------



## mizZGiorgia

rrose17 said:


> Of course there are many other ways to say this but something close to the Italian could be
> "You're just pulling words out of the air." which means there's not much meaning behind them.
> To be even more emphatic you could say
> "You're just pulling words out of thin air."


Ok. Thank you. These translations sound perfect!


----------



## GavinW

No, these earlier suggested translations are wrong, I'm afraid. "Parole al vento", as I understand it, means words that are wasted, lost on others, and which therefore will not have any effect. 
Here's my context today, referring to Mario Draghi: "La struttura dell'unione monetaria, ha avvertito, è diventata «insostenibile». Parole forti ma parole al vento quelle del presidente della Bce?"

The Italian expression is fixed and idiomatic. Question: What do we say in English?
Thanks in advance.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

GavinW said:


> No, these earlier suggested translations are wrong, I'm afraid. "Parole al vento", as I understand it, means words that are wasted, lost on others, and which therefore will not have any effect.
> .


Thrown to the wind?


----------



## GavinW

Paulfromitaly said:


> Thrown to the wind?



Thanks for that Paul. Yes, I thought of this, or rather something similar -- "(words) cast to the wind". I'm not sure it's as fixed in English as it is in Italian. But it may be the nearest and the best.
Cheers.


----------



## london calling

GavinW said:


> No, these earlier suggested translations are wrong, I'm afraid. "Parole al vento", as I understand it, means words that are wasted, lost on others, and which therefore will not have any effect.
> Here's my context today, referring to Mario Draghi: "La struttura dell'unione monetaria, ha avvertito, è diventata «insostenibile». Parole forti ma parole al vento quelle del presidente della Bce?"



Definitely wrong, Gavin, quite right. 

Apart from "cast to the wind", we could maybe change it slightly and say that Draghi's proposals will "fall on deaf ears".


----------



## GavinW

Thanks LC, but it's not quite the same though, is it, as I'm sure you'll be the first to admit...


----------



## london calling

GavinW said:


> Thanks LC, but it's not quite the same though, is it, as I'm sure you'll be the first to admit...



I think it depends on the emphasis you want to put on it or indeed the way you interpret it: if words are wasted on others that can also mean that they fall on deaf ears (because whoever is listening pretends not to hear/understand them). 

If you think they're accusing Draghi of either waffling or of being incapable of explaining himself (so that was he says is "lost on others"), then "cast to the wind" is fine, of course. What does the article actually say?


----------



## AshleySarah

Does "parole al vento" mean that one's words are meaningless and nonsensical, or that the words one is saying will not be heeded and that one is wasting one's breath?  If it's the latter meaning, then all I can think of is "pissing into the wind" or "shouting into the wind".


----------



## Pat (√2)

AshleySarah said:


> Does "parole al vento" mean that one's words are meaningless and nonsensical No, or that the words one is saying will not be heeded and that one is wasting one's breath?



_Parlare al vento (_dal Latino "profundere verba ventis"_) _-> parlare invano, perché ciò che si dice rimarrà inascoltato. Un po' come "parlare ai sordi" o "parlare al muro"


----------



## AshleySarah

Got it Pat!  The words were in vain/futile/unheard.  Ho capito. Grazie per l'spiegazione.


----------



## GavinW

Quindi anche: "His words will go unheeded". I think that's an OK translation, and maybe the best I can think of. Ta.


----------



## giginho

I don't know if this could help. In Italian we have this idiomatic phrase: "predicare nel deserto" that means the same things as "parole al vento".....


----------



## london calling

GavinW said:


> Quindi anche: "His words will go unheeded". I think that's an OK translation, and maybe the best I can think of. Ta.


And it also means they will "fall on deaf ears", Gavin.


----------



## GavinW

london calling said:


> And it also means they will "fall on deaf ears", Gavin.



I agree it's perilously, close, but I beg to quibble (again)! ;-)


----------



## rrose17

Although it was me who misunderstood the expression inthe first place, and thanks to Gavin for correcting it, I thought of something else. "Pissing in the wind" crossed my mind as I was reading this, but it's probably a little rude for the context, no? What about_ "whistling in the wind_"? TO me this means the same thing, wasting your breath.


----------



## You little ripper!

GavinW said:


> No, these earlier suggested translations are wrong, I'm afraid. "Parole al vento", as I understand it, means words that are wasted, lost on others, and which therefore will not have any effect.


It might be wrong as far as the true meaning of the Italian expression, Gavin, but rrose's made those suggestions based on Giorgia's definition of it.



giginho said:


> I don't know if this could help. In Italian we have this idiomatic phrase: "predicare nel deserto" that means the same things as "parole al vento".....


Are you referring to the biblical expression, gigi? 

a voice crying in the wilderness


----------



## Teerex51

While not an idiom as such, _words lost in the wind_ has a nice ring to it. Any takers?


----------



## GavinW

Teerex51 said:


> While not an idiom as such, _words lost in the wind_ has a nice ring to it. Any takers?



Nice!


----------



## Teerex51

GavinW said:


> Nice!



...but no cigar.  _OK, OK. I can take a defeat.._.


----------



## joanvillafane

Words lost *on* the wind. (changing this word makes it better for me)


----------



## King Crimson

Not sure whether it’s on topic, but since all this thread seems to revolve around “talking to the wind” I couldn’t resist quoting some lines (*) of “I talk to the wind” from my eponymous group:

_I talk to the wind__
My words are all carried away__
I talk to the wind__
The wind does not hear_ 

(*) and I had to remove the last line of this strophe not to incur the wrath of our mods


----------



## GavinW

King Crimson said:


> Not sure whether it’s on topic, but since all this thread seems to revolve around “talking to the wind” I couldn’t resist quoting some lines (*) of “I talk to the wind” from my eponymous group:
> 
> _I talk to the wind__
> My words are all carried away__
> I talk to the wind__
> The wind does not hear_
> 
> (*) and I had to remove the last line of this strophe verse not to incur the wrath of our mods



Thank you KC! I didn't know you named a band after your nickname! ;-)
I'm grateful to you both (you and your band) for the very relevant extra material.


----------



## King Crimson

GavinW said:


> Thank you KC! I didn't know you named a band after your nickname! ;-)
> I'm grateful to you both (you and your band) for the very relevant extra material.



But please, don't spread the word Gawin, I wouldn't want to be sued by Robert Fripp...


----------



## london calling

GavinW said:


> I agree it's perilously, close, but I beg to quibble (again)! ;-)


Why? It means the same thing basically - if people do not heed what Draghi says, what he says is falling on deaf ears....

OT: KC, I have recently introduced my 19-year old son to Robert Fripp &Co. ( I dug out a couple of CDs)  - he's been in ecstasy ever since!


----------



## GavinW

london calling said:


> Why? It means the same thing basically - if people do not heed what Draghi says, what he says is falling on deaf ears....



Fair question. I see a distinction:
1) words to the wind/go unheeded = nobody's there to listen. Nobody's able to hear the words.
2) fall on deaf ears = people choose not to listen. They hear the words, but do not agree, and disregard the point made.

So it's basically the distinction between hear/listen (it's parallel to that distinction, one might say). It's also therefore a question of intention/choice.
Don't know if everyone will agree with me, but I believe we need to make the distinction at least sometimes. I'm not clear on whether "parole al vento" covers both scenarios, but I feel my context is closer to scenario 1) than to scenario 2).


----------



## london calling

GavinW said:


> 1) words to the wind/go unheeded = nobody's there to listen. Nobody's able to hear the words.
> 2) fall on deaf ears = people choose not to listen. They hear the words, but do not agree, and disregard the point made.
> 
> So it's basically the distinction between hear/listen (it's parallel to that distinction, one might say). It's also therefore a question of intention/choice.


Sorry to belabour this, but I can't see the distinction you make between _words which go unheeded _and _words which fall on deaf ears. _I don't think _to go unheeded _means that nobody is there to listen, it simply means they don't listen, so they fall on deaf ears. Both expressions to me imply choice and, to my mind, both translate _parole al vento_ in your context: I don't really think anyone's accusing Draghi of waffling or of not being able to explain himself (what he says isn't _lost on others_, as I mentioned above)

_Words to the wind/lost on the wind_ is a different kettle of fish. No choice involved there.

Let's beg to differ, however.


----------



## Pat (√2)

Sono intrigatissima dalla discussione 



> "La struttura dell'unione monetaria, ha avvertito, è diventata «insostenibile». Parole forti ma parole al vento quelle del presidente della Bce?"



Draghi lancia un avvertimento: pronuncia parole pesanti sull'unione monetaria. Ci si chiede se queste parole così forti sortiranno un effetto oppure no, perché il rischio è quello che cadano nel vuoto, che rimangano inascoltate (inascoltate non nel senso che nessuno le "sentirà", ma nel senso che nessuno le prenderà sul serio, che nessuno darà loro la giusta importanza, che nessuno le crederà vere, che nessuno prenderà provvedimenti, o anche che chi di dovere "farà orecchi da mercante" ecc.).

Jo, più su avevi scritto che "words fall on deaf ears" quando si fa finta di non sentire o di non capire (gli interessati "fanno orecchi da mercante"): questo elemento di finzione è sempre implicito in questa espressione?


----------



## london calling

√2 said:


> Jo, più su avevi scritto che "words fall on deaf ears" quando si fa finta di non sentire o di non capire (gli interessati "fanno orecchi da mercante"): questo elemento di finzione è sempre implicito in questa espressione?



Riapriamo le danze, Pat?

I interpreted the sentence as meaning that Draghi has spoken, but that no-one will take any notice of what he says, i.e that his words will_ go unheeded/fall on deaf ears_. Gavin and I don't agree on this point, because he makes a distinction I don't between the two expressions, as you see.

This are how I understand them (the definitions, as you will see, are from free dictionary):

To fall on deaf ears , I quote: "if a request or advice falls on deaf ears, people ignore it"
Unheeded, I quote: "noticed or heard but disregarded"

_To ignore _or _to disregard_ (something)have the same meaning as far as I'm concerned. I believe that it some cases people  "pretend" not to hear or understand whilst in others they "choose" not  to hear or understand. Take me, for example. I know I shouldn't smoke, but any advice I'm given _goes unheeded/falls on deaf ears_, although of course I know only too well the risks I'm taking.

Maybe we should continue this discussion in EO.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Let's put it like this: most people have simply disregarded what Draghi said with a "I hear what you're saying..".


----------



## london calling

Paulfromitaly said:


> Let's put it like this: most people have simply disregarded what Draghi said with a "I hear what you're saying..".


That's exactly what I'm saying: they've ignored/disregarded what he said.


----------



## Pat (√2)

london calling said:


> To fall on deaf ears , I quote: "if a request or advice falls on deaf ears, people ignore it"
> 
> Maybe we should continue this discussion in EO. Sorry



Grazie 
Ho letto gli esempi. Tutta roba che "cade nel vuoto". Per me funziona come equivalente di "parole al vento".


----------



## london calling

If I were to attempt a very loose (BE) translation of the concept, I'd say something like "but nobody's taking a blind bit of notice of what he's saying".


----------



## novizio

Ascolta a LC, ha ragione, e' la stessa cosa


----------



## london calling

novizio said:


> Ascolta a  LC, ha ragione, e' la stessa cosa


Thanks for your vote of confidence! I hope you don't mind the correction. Oddly enough, in the local dialect (campano) they make the same mistake when they speak standard Italian, because they also say (in dialect) _ascolta a_...


----------

