# Concubin [masculine concubine?]



## Fabiola79

*Hi,
*
       Is there a masculine word for *'concubine'* ?
I would say *'concubin'*.

What do you think about it ?

Thank you for your answer.


----------



## boozer

I think inventing new words is riskier than using a word that people already know in the right context to talk about a male concubine.  I, for one, would probably think you had simply misspelt 'concubine'. 

This said, I would not ever use this word to describe this relationship because to me 'concubine' is always in the feminine. Maybe if you give us a sentence with a gap where you want this word to fit people will be able to suggest something better. The closest I can think of is gigolo, but I doubt it serves your purpose...


----------



## heypresto

The OED doesn't list it, but who knows, if you use it and it catches on and gets into print a few times, it could appear in the next, or some future, edition. 


Cross-posted.


----------



## Chasint

Like boozer I would assume a spelling mistake. I can think of several possible words but it depends very much on context. The problem is that concubinage has a long history in a number of cultures including, I believe, present day Islam. Because it is and has been a legal concept I am not aware that a similar opposite situation was ever sanctioned.

Please provide a context and a sentence as boozer suggests   Please say what you mean by concubine.

P.S. It might also be useful to say whether the word is primarily intended to refer to hetero or homosexual relationships or whether it is specifically to be gender neutral. I say this because concubinage specifically refers to a male-female relationship where the man financially or materially supports the woman.


----------



## Fabiola79

So, you're against the word 'concubin' ?
You would say 'a male concubine'. Am I right ?


----------



## Chasint

Fabiola79 said:


> So, you're against the word 'concubin' ?
> You would say 'a male concubine'. Am I right ?


Possibly. What do you mean when you speak of a male concubine? What is your definition?


----------



## Myridon

There are a few words borrowed from French that use that pattern (blond/blonde, fiance/fiancee are the only ones I can think of and we're trying to get rid of those differences ) but there's no difference in pronunciation.  That's a necessary 'silent e' however.  Where do you keep the concs? In the concubin - a bin for concs.


----------



## Andygc

Fabiola79. You have already been asked for context and a sentence to illustrate what you are trying to say. If you do not explain why and how you want to use a male equivalent for concubine it is impossible to offer a meaningful answer.

Please remind yourself of The Longer Guide to English Only, particularly


> *What we do in the English Only forum*
> 
> We answer *specific questions* about *words or phrases* in a *complete sentence* with *context and background* in a respectful, helpful and cordial manner.


 and provide the information members have asked you for.

Andygc, moderator


----------



## Fabiola79

My definition of a male concubine:
a male concubine ( concubin ) is almost husband of his almost wife ( a concubine );
he is a partner of a concubine.


----------



## Andygc

In that case, there is no current English word. There was one, but it is now obsolete - from the OED


> _c_1430    Lydgate tr.  Bochas _Fall of Princes_  iii. xxiv. 95 a, Because she had had another concubyne.
> ?1529    R. Hyrde tr.  J. L. Vives _Instr. Christen Woman_  ii. iv. sig. b.ijv, Thou haste stomacke inough to handle the vyles and scabbes of thy concubyne.
> _c_1536    _Indictment Anne Boleyn_   (Trench) , Her adulterers and concubines.


It was "concubine"


----------



## Fabiola79

So, we must say *'a male concubine' *?


----------



## Andygc

Fabiola79 said:


> So, we must say *'a male concubine' *?


No, the word *concubine *is no longer used in English to refer to men, and doesn't appear to have been used that way for some 500 or more years. In current usage it only refers to a woman, and *male concubine* makes no sense. (would you write *male woman*?)


----------



## lucas-sp

You're talking about _concubinage_ (an ongoing relationship without marriage), right?

The problem is that there are a million different definitions of "concubine" - it's different in China than it is in the _Confessions_ of St. Augustine and it's different in a different way in US history.

Generally, only men can take concubines. Men can occasionally take male concubines (in Rome, they use the words concubina and concubinus to distinguish the genders). These are asymmetrical relationships.

There are more symmetrical versions of concubinage in which both partners are of relatively equal status within the relationship. I presume both partners would be "concubines" in that situation.


----------



## Fabiola79

So, *'concubine'* can be a man or a woman living in concubinage.
Am I right ?


----------



## lucas-sp

Fabiola79 said:


> So, *'concubine'* can be a man or a woman living in concubinage.
> Am I right ?


I do not know. What situation of concubinage are you describing? When is this? What culture is it?

In the vast majority of cases, "concubine" will neither A) refer to a symmetrical relationship nor B) suggest anything except a female.


----------



## Fabiola79

May we call *'a male concubine' *a man who lives in concubinage with a concubine ?
How may we call him ?
We say *'male prostitute'*, so can we say *'male concubine' *?
I'm talking about modern western culture.


----------



## morior_invictus

Fabiola79 said:


> May we call *'a male concubine' *a man who lives in concubinage with a concubine ?
> How may we call him ? _a master, a married man_


The word "concubine" is a gender specific noun for a woman.


----------



## Fabiola79

But how do we say about a man living in such a relation ?
Will someone ask my question ?


----------



## Myridon

Fabiola79 said:


> I'm talking about modern western culture.


There are no (or very few) male concubines in modern western culture therefore there is no word and there does not need to be a word.  It's like asking what is the word for pigs with wings.  It's interesting to think about, but it's not really useful.


----------



## velisarius

Would the question have anything to do with the French institution of _​concubinage?_


----------



## Fabiola79

So, we must say *'a man in concubinage' *?
Am I right this time ?


----------



## Loob

Fabiola, I think you need to explain the precise situation you're thinking about. 

Are you thinking about the - very common - situation of a man and woman who live together without being married?


----------



## Fabiola79

Yes, I'm talking about such people.


----------



## Chasint

Fabiola79 said:


> Yes, I'm talking about such people.


They are not concubines. They are simply called partners.


----------



## Loob

Thank you for the clarification, Fabiola.

In English, we don't use the term "concubine" or "concubinage" to refer to that.  In the past it was very common to talk about a man's "common-law wife" or a woman's "common-law husband" (despite the fact that neither the term "common-law wife" nor the term "common-law husband" has any status in law).

Today, we'd simply refer to the woman as (for example) "John's partner", and the man as (for example) "Ann's partner".
_
(cross-posted with Biffo)_


----------



## PaulQ

I can think of no word that was originally solely feminine that has been changed to refer solely to a male. The second point is that the 'e' is not feminine. 

Here's a suggestion:





> catamite, n. A boy kept for homosexual practices; the passive partner in anal intercourse.
> 
> 
> _1601   P. Holland tr. Pliny Hist. World I. 111   Called Cinedopolis, by reason of certain Catamites and shamefull baggages that king Alexander the Great left there._


Catamite is an old-fashioned and uncommon word, (I can remember it from "The Trial of Oscar Wilde") and, like 99% of words and phrases referring to homosexuality, it is pejorative.


The problem for having a word for a male concubine is that, although a woman who is permanently cohabiting with a man may be married to him or not married to him and thus be a wife, or a "common-law wife", i.e. concubine, until very recent times, the only possible state for males in a similar position was 'unmarried' and therefore no such distinguishing category was required.


----------



## boozer

On a side note, I cannot get myself to pronounce 'concubin'. It sounds in my head (I dare not voice it  ) as 'con Cuban'...


----------



## Loob

I think we're probably sorted, boozer: I suspect that what Fabiola's looking for is the word "partner".

That said, it would be_ really_ helpful if Fabiola could provide us with a complete sentence into which she wanted to fit the word.....


----------



## Fabiola79

It may be simply 'partner'. 'Concubine' and 'concubinage' are old-fashioned.
Am I right ?

Thank you for interesting discussion.


----------



## Loob

Well, it's more that "concubine" and "concubinage" have, in English, very specific meanings which don't - usually - relate to the meaning you're apparently looking for.

As requested, can you give us a sentence into which you want to put the word you're looking for?


----------



## Myridon

Fabiola79 said:


> 'Concubine' and 'concubinage' are old-fashioned.


It's not just old-fashioned.   Concubinage refers to a specific and quite in-equal relationship between the two people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage


> Concubinage is an interpersonal relationship in which a person engages in an ongoing relationship (usually matrimonially  oriented) with another person to whom they are not or cannot be  married; the inability to marry is usually due to a difference in social status  or economic condition. Historically, the relationship involved a man in  a higher status position, usually with a legally sanctioned wife, who maintains a second household with the lesser "wife". The woman in such a relationship is referred to as a concubine.


Only one person in the relationship is the concubine.


----------



## Fabiola79

Is it possible to say *'man in concubinage' *?


----------



## Chasint

Fabiola79 said:


> Is it possible to say *'man in concubinage' *?


Fabiola - we are trying to help you but you do not answer any of our questions. You already asked this exact question in post #21.

If you want us to answer you need to read our replies and provide the context we keep asking for.


----------



## PaulQ

Fabiola79 said:


> Is it possible to say *'man in concubinage' *?


No, and for the reasons I gave. Forget trying to make "concubine" fit a male. It is not going to work

As a word, *concubine *is out-dated. As a social phenomenon, the concept is more popular than ever but you would be punched for referring to a woman as a concubine and referring to a man as a concubin is silly.

At the very best, *concubine *is out dated, save to those who speak nothing but the language of Shakespeare and the King James Bible.


----------



## Chasint

Furthermore, if you called a modern-day woman a concubine she would be highly insulted.

Concubine is the wrong word no matter how you try to change it.


----------



## morior_invictus

Maybe a French woman in this kind of relationship (aka "la concubi*ne*", as a female equivalent of male "le concubi*n*") wouldn`t be insulted. 


> Now in the early twenty-first century, as increasing numbers of men and  women in Euro-America choose to live together without marrying, the word  concubinage has taken on new legal, social, and cultural meanings. In  France concubinage is the official term for the cohabitation of  heterosexual and (since 1998) homosexual couples. But concubinage in  other societies outside Euro-America probably continues to carry a  social stigma.


Source: Essay on Concubines and Concubinage 
But as mentioned a few times above, if you want us to answer your problem about a concubinage/union libre/domestic partnership/cohabitation, Fabiola please...


Biffo said:


> ...*provide the context we keep asking for*.


----------



## The_Moonlight

That may actually turn out more cultural question. I venture a guess Fabiola doesn't mean the Western culture but the Polish one where there exists a term for a man who remains in a relationship with a woman without marriage (mind you, this word, both for a man and woman are strictly legal and have highly pejorative associations). 
Fabiola, there's no need for you to grow impatient. I daresay the notion of concubinage in the Polish sense is most likely nonexistent in English.


----------



## Beryl from Northallerton

Fabiola79. Please provide the requested sample sentence to bring this thread in line with the forum requirements for context and background, and if needs be, cite its  source.


----------



## Loob

While we're waiting, there's also this thread: A person in a relationship without marriage 

(which includes a link to another one).


----------



## Fabiola79

I don't know English so good. 
I don't understand what I should do.
What should I do ?


----------



## Beryl from Northallerton

Give us a sentence in which you use 'concubin'.


----------



## Fabiola79

Where should I write it ?


----------



## Fabiola79

The thread *'context and background' *is closed !


----------



## se16teddy

Myridon said:


> There are no (or very few) male concubines in modern western culture


 ? There are innumerable _toy-boys_. There is even a web-site where you can find yourself one: http://www.toyboy.com/


----------



## Loob

Fabiola79 said:


> Where should I write it ?


You just need to write your sentence in this current thread, Fabiola.


----------



## Fabiola79

My sentence:
*A concubin is a man who lives in a concubinage with his concubine.*


----------



## Chasint

Fabiola79 said:


> My sentence:
> *A concubin is a man who lives in concubinage with his concubine.*


My suggestion

*A cohabitee is a person (of either gender) who cohabits with another person as husband and wife.

______________________________________________________________________

*Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::

*cohabit* /kəʊˈhæbɪt/vb


(intransitive) *to live together as husband and wife, esp without being married*

Etymology: 16th Century: via Late Latin, from Latin _co-_ together +_habitāre_ to live

*ˌcohabiˈtee*, *coˈhabitant*, *coˈhabiter*n


----------



## Loob

Fabiola79 said:


> My sentence:
> *A concubin is a man who lives in a concubinage with his concubine.*


Fabiola, the problem we're having is that:
~ the word "concubin" doesn't exist in English.
~ "concubine" and "concubinage" mean something different in English from the similar-sounding words in Polish.  

We might talk about a sultan having many concubines in his harem; we don't talk about Mr Smith next door having a concubine, or living in concubinage.

So it would be helpful if you could tell us about the sort of situation you're thinking of.


----------



## Fabiola79

I'm giving up.
Thank you for interesting discussion.


----------



## Chasint

My final attempt at an answer:

1. The word "concubin" (the male form of the word concubine) does exist in some languages (e.g. French) but it does not exist in English. 

2. "concubinage" as a modern-day concept does exist in some European countries such as France where it means 'living together with a sexual partner'.

3. These are not the words we use in English. In normal English usage 'concubine' and 'concubinage' have another meaning - that of financially or materially supporting another person in return for marital 'duties'.

4. The technical word we use in English to describe "people who live together as man and wife without the benefit of marriage" is "cohabitee(s)".

5. In English the word 'cohabitee' (alternatively cohabitant) is equally applied to males and females (it is gender-neutral).

6. Related words are:_ to cohabit_ (verb) and _cohabitation_ (noun)


----------



## Keith Bradford

Let's face it, _concubine _usually expresses a less-than-equal relationship of power in favour of the man.  The reverse situation would be _*toy-boy *_or *live-in-lover*, though personally I'd have no objection to *male concubine*.


----------



## Cagey

This thread does not contain sufficient context for a productive discussion, and is now closed.

It's possible that the original poster would have better results by posting the Polish term in the Polish forum.  People who understand the use and connotations of the Polish term may be better able to help in translating it into English. 

Cagey, moderator


----------

