# Dei Gratia Britanniarum Omnium Rex



## orwel

Hi I wondered if anyone could assist in identifying and perhaps translating the engraved script on this coin please? It was obviously precious to somebody perhaps it is a name?
 Many thanks in advance.View attachment 9773


<< Moderator's note:
This discussion of the Latin has been split off from Unknown language.
That thread discusses the symbols engraved on the face of the coin, which was the original question. >>>


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## mediterraneo24

Looks like some kind of Latin, and it says something like : King George V supreme ruler 
It's just a guess, wait for more ideas


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## berndf

mediterraneo24 said:


> Looks like some kind of Latin, and it says something like : King George V supreme ruler
> It's just a guess, wait for more ideas


<< Response to deleted post. >>

By the way. the Latin text you meant reads: 
GEORGIUS QUINTUS DEI GRATIA BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM REX FIDEI DEFENSOR INDIAE IMPERATOR = George the fifth, by the grace of God king of all Britons, defender of the faith, emperor of India


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## CapnPrep

berndf said:


> GEORGIUS QUINTUS DEI GRATIA BRITANNIARUM OMNIUM REX FIDEI DEFENSOR INDIAE IMPERATOR = George the fifth, by the grace of God king of all Britons, defender of the faith, emperor of India


Continuing off-topic: it's "king of all the *Britains*".


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## berndf

CapnPrep said:


> Continuing off-topic: it's "king of all the *Britains*".


The Latin title obviously continues the Roman titles of DUX BRITANNIARUM and COMES BRITANNIARUM, that is why I wrote _Britons_. But _Britains _are of course meant.


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## CapnPrep

I don't know about "obviously"… and besides, _dux_/_comes Britanniarum_ should not be translated using the demonym _Britons_, either. Latin _Britanniae_ can only refer to a place (or to several places). "Of the Britons" is _Britannorum_ or _Brittonum_.


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## berndf

Why is it in plural then? This would means that DUX BRITANNIARUM stands for _Duke of all places called Britannia_.


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## CapnPrep

Yes, or actually just _more than one_ place called "Britannia". _Britanniae_ was also used as a collective plural to refer to the whole country (I guess because it was divided into several provinces, or maybe military regions in the case of the _dux_ and _comes_).


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## berndf

CapnPrep said:


> Yes, or actually just _more than one_ place called "Britannia".


Yes could be both, the ambiguity of the missing definite marker in Latin. In BRITANNIARUM *OMNIUM *REX the "omnium" clarifies it.


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## L'irlandais

berndf said:


> Why is it in plural then? This would means that DUX BRITANNIARUM stands for _Duke of all places called Britannia_.


Well in the context it may refer to the Dominions mentioned in his Style.


> "His Majesty George V, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland and of the *British Dominions *beyond the Seas, King, Defender of the Faith, Emperor of India"


Great Britain is the larger of the two islands, but I don't believe Ireland was, at anytime, known as Lesser Britian.


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## djmc

The British flag (the Union Jack) is composed of the Crosses of the Flags of England, Scotland and Ireland. Wales which was thought of as a principate had a dragon as its flag. The king of England is to be thought of as also being king of Scotland and Ireland. These are the Britains which are referred to.


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## CapnPrep

L'irlandais said:


> Great Britain is the larger of the two islands, but I don't believe Ireland was, at anytime, known as Lesser Britian.


"Less Britain", "Little Britain", _Britannia minor_, etc. were used for Brittany. Ireland has been referred to as "West Britain", according to the OED ("humorously or polemically"), much as Scotland and England were sometimes called "North and South Britain" after the Act of Union.

However, as I said above, _Britanniae_ in the plural can simply mean "Britain", viewed as a collection of provinces/countries/regions/whatever, and each of these provinces/countries/whatever does not have "Britain" in its name. In the case of late Roman Britain, two of the provinces were indeed called _Britannia Prima_ and  _Britannia Secunda_,but the two others were _Maxima_ and _Flavia Caesariensis_. _Britanniae_, as in _dux_/_comes Britanniarum_, referred to all four provinces, not just the two called _Britannia_.

In the case of _Britanniarum rex_, on the other hand, the Latin appears to be a translation of a 19th century English neologism "the Britains":


			
				OED said:
			
		

> 1874    _Times_ 14 July 10/6                    The name of ‘Britain’‥ought to answer every purpose, or if that be  thought too condensed, it may be pluralized into ‘The Britains’.
> 1897    Earl of Rosebery in  _Daily News_ 5 July 4/5                    ‘Regina Britanniarum’—the Queen of the Britains.‥ She is sovereign,  not of one or two, but of numberless Britains, all self-supporting.
> 1901    _Westm. Gaz._ 11 Dec. 2/2                    Lord Rosebery has succeeded with his cry of ‘All the Britains’, as  the three letters ‘Omn’ on the new coins are to testify.‥ Our King  henceforth is to be King of All the Britains.
> 1945    _Eng. Hist. Rev._ *60* 199                    ‘The British Isles’‥would confer on ‘the other island’ an equality  of status‥. This difficulty could be overcome by the use of the simple  plural ‘Britanniae’, ‘The Britains’.


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## Tegs

djmc said:


> The British flag (the Union Jack) is composed of the Crosses of the Flags of England, Scotland and Ireland. Wales which was thought of as a principate had a dragon as its flag. The king of England is to be thought of as also being king of Scotland and Ireland. These are the Britains which are referred to.



Hello all! I'm coming to the party a bit late, but thought I'd chip in - also off topic  Just a random side note then - the Union Jack doesn't actually contain a cross from the Irish flag. We have no cross in ours  It contains the cross of St Patrick, which is a red-coloured X. Wales was officially part of the Kingdom of England at the point when the flag was created, so the Welsh weren't represented in the flag.


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