# FR: Elle s'est brossé les dents



## myrna

Hi all,

I just read (again) a sentence : *Elle s'est brossé les dents et elle s'est cassé une dent. *I got an explanation that the words _*s'est brossé *_and_* s'est cassé *_refer to the object, so that we do not add the _*e*_, eventhough the subject is *elle*. But then I got confused, if we refer to the object, then why we do not say like this : *Elle s'est brossées les dents et elle s'est cassée une dent *as _*les dents*_ is _feminine, pluriel_  and _*une dent*_ is _feminine singulier._

_Thanks a lot in advance! Have a good nite._


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## DearPrudence

You must agree with the object when it is before the verb, which in this case is: 
*"les dents"* or *"une dent",* which is placed after the verb so that there is no agreement.
Anyway This thread may help you, especially from post 5.


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## myrna

Thanks a lot DearPrudence, but I am still confused  Does it mean that when there is an object after the word *se brosser* in *passé composé* for the subject *elle* we do not need to put anything, does it mean always : *elle s'est brossé*.....anything? 

Thanks a lot.


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## DearPrudence

Hum, if I get what you say, I think that you understood.
*"Elle s'est brossé les dents"*
"elle s'est brossé quoi? = les dents
she brushed what = her teeth
les dents (her teeth) is the object.
And "brossé" should agree with this object only if placed before the verb.

*elle s'est brossé les dents.*
*elle se les est brossées.*

*elle s'est lavé les mains.*
*elle se les est lavées.*

But when there's nothing after, it agrees with the subject:
*elle s'est lavée.*
(because she's the object as well)

OK, I think I definitely lost you


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## marget

In "elle s'est lavée", I think it's easier for me to consider that lavée agrees with se, which is the preceding direct object. Of course, it takes the gender and number of the subject. I would have written your last example in this way: *elle* *s'est* *lav**ée.* All of your examples are excellent.


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## vince

How about, "les dents qu'elles s'est brossés" "the teeth that she brushed"


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## DearPrudence

Yes, agreement
*"les dents qu'elle s'est brossées"*

*"brossé"* agrees with the object which is *"que" -* placed before the verb - and which stands for *"les dents".*

Note: It also works with the "avoir" auxiliary.

*"Elle a pris la tasse"*
*"La tasse qu'elle a prise est sale".*
*"Elle l'a prise"*


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## Cath.S.

*



elle s'est brossé.....anything?
		
Click to expand...

*_That's correct, Myrna_
_elle s'est bross*é* les cheveux_
_elle s'est bross*é* les dents_
_elle s'est bross*é* le sourcil gauche... _


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## Gil

I just found:


> Note: When referring to a part of the body, the French possessive pronoun is rarely used. Instead, the reflexive pronoun indicates possession and the definite article is used in front of the part of the body.
> 
> Je me lave les mains - I'm washing my hands.



Source:  there


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## J.F. de TROYES

In the plural:

Nous nous sommes brossé les dents.
Vous vous êtes brossé les chaussures.
*Elles se sont brossé les cheveux.* ("se" is singular and plural )


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## Gil

J.F. de TROYES said:
			
		

> Vous vous êtes brossé les chaussures.


Les chaussures n'étant pas une partie du corp, je préférerais:
Vous avez brossé vos chaussures.


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## francophile55

Bonjour tout le monde, 

J'ai une question vraiment simple. Est-ce...

Elle s'est brosse les dents

ou

Elle s'est brosse*e *les dents


(Pardonnez-moi, je sais que l'orthographe n'est pas correcte, je ne suis pas encore arrivee a comprendre comment on ajoute les accents)

En ce cas-la, l'accorde est-il avec "elle" ou ses dents?

Ciao! Merci beaucoup!


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## timboleicester

"Elle s'est brossé les dents" is correct. for there to be an extra ""e the obejct has to be direct. In this case it is indirect. She brushed her teeth *to* herself..... 

"Elle s'est blessée" here the "e" is present because the "se" is direct. She hurt herself. If you say "elle s'est blessé le doigt" it becomes *to* herself again.unnecessary quotation of previous post removed to save space


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## francophile55

mais est-ce que quelqu'un pourrait m'expliquer pourquoi? Le mot "dent" est feminin, et aussi le mot "elle" est bien feminin...

Alors pourquoi on n'ajoute pas un deuxieme "e" a la fin du participe passe?


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## timboleicester

The reason why "dent" is feminine is really a question that cannot be explained. Probably because the latin for tooth is feminine.

agreement of past particles in the cases you have given happens if the 1. object is direct and 2. if it is in front of the auxillary.

as for elle this is not a noun and therefore is not feminine as such it is the word for "she"


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## JimmyJ

timboleicester said:


> as for elle this is not a noun and therefore is not feminine as such it is the word for "she"


 Hi there timbo...

I don't agree with this part of your statement. Clearly, "elle" is a noun. It functions as a noun. That it can be further identified as a pronoun does not deny that it is a noun.

Ciao


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## timboleicester

I do not wish to be judged out of order but by this reckoning an adverb is a verb!.. only nouns carry gender in French. Anyway we'll agree to disagree shall we?


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## viera

*elle* is not a noun, but a pronoun.
The rules governing the agreement of past participles apply to both nouns and pronouns.


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## SwissPete

Is it possible that the "normal" rules don't apply here, that we have a special situation? Perhaps the same that applies to « Elles se sont rendu compte » (and not « Elles se sont rendues compte »). I am not sure that francophile55's original question has been answered.


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## lentulax

timboleicester answered it, and the same answer applies to your example : there is no preceding direct object for the participle to agree with .

However , timboleicester's analogy between a pronoun and an adverb fails completely . A pronoun does not modify a noun - it stands in place of it ; grammatically , the functions and characteristics of a pronoun and noun are identical .(If you thought pronouns didn't carry gender , you'd have to say 'Elle est fou'!) An adverb , however , modifies a verb ; it does not replace it ; the functions of an adverb and a verb are entirely different .

Mike


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## Maître Capello

lentulax said:


> timboleicester answered it, and the same answer applies to your example : there is no preceding direct object for the participle to agree with.





timboleicester said:


> "Elle s'est brossé les dents" is correct. for there to be an extra ""e the obejct has to be direct. In this case it is indirect. She brushed her teeth *to* herself.....
> 
> "Elle s'est blessée" here the "e" is present because the "se" is direct. She hurt herself. If you say "elle s'est blessé le doigt" it becomes *to* herself again.



 Because the direct object (_dents_) is *after* the verb, the past participle doesn't agree. So the correct sentence is _Elle s'est lav*é* les dents._


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## timboleicester

lentulax said:


> timboleicester answered it, and the same answer applies to your example : there is no preceding direct object for the participle to agree with .
> 
> However , timboleicester's analogy between a pronoun and an adverb fails completely . A pronoun does not modify a noun - it stands in place of it ; grammatically , the functions and characteristics of a pronoun and noun are identical .(If you thought pronouns didn't carry gender , you'd have to say 'Elle est fou'!) An adverb , however , modifies a verb ; it does not replace it ; the functions of an adverb and a verb are entirely different .
> 
> Mike


 
I do apologise but I cannot agree with this. For a starter subject pronouns are affected by case. eg I saw the woman = noun I saw her (not she)
This is not a charateristic of nouns. Interesting though. I t has made me think more.

Although, if we go back to the question that was asked. I think it was why is "dent" feminine and "elle" I was merely anxious to point out that the two words are not the same kind of word and as my dear old mum used to say are different parts of speech.


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