# seu boiola



## William Stein

"seu boiola" is a how a women signs an e-mail. I could only find "little gay lover" for "boiola". What does it mean if a heterosexual woman says it to her male lover?


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## Portvcale

"Boiola" é, parece-me, "paneleiro", ou seja, "fagget".


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## William Stein

That's what I thought but then I saw that the author was a woman, but passive homosexuals can have girls' names so you must be right.


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## cordobes82

2 things:

1) Boiola means faggot, or "fag" sometimes you say. Not a good way to say "homossexual" or "gay".

2) What do you mean by "but passive homosexuals can have girls' names"? Sounds like a homophobic comment. Homossexuals are men and they have men's names, despite they are attracted to other men.


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## William Stein

cordobes82 said:


> 2 things:
> 
> 1
> 2) What do you mean by "but passive homosexuals can have girls' names"? Sounds like a homophobic comment. Homossexuals are men and they have men's names, despite they are attracted to other men.



I didn't mean to be homophobic. Here's what I mean:
1) I was given a short exchange of e-mails to translate with no explanation of the context.
2) The exchange is between "Denise" and "Jose", so at first I thought it was between a man and a woman.
3) Denise signs "her" letters "boiola"  and the only meaning of "boiola" I could find in the dictionary was ""faggot, passive homosexual" and that was confirmed by Portvcale.
4) I therefore assume that the "Denise" alias "biola" is a male homosexual in the feminine (passive) role. What is homophobic about that?
"


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## Macunaíma

"Seu boiola" at the closing of the e-mail very likely means "you [little] faggot!" and not "your faggot". By the way, in Portuguese we don't close letters with the "yours" formula. 

Boiola is not used only for the passive homossexual. It's applied (in a derrogatory sense) to _all _male homossexuals.


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## William Stein

Macunaíma said:


> "Seu boiola" at the closing of the e-mail very likely means "you [little] faggot!" and not "your faggot". By the way, in Portuguese we don't close letters with the "yours" formula.
> 
> Boiola is not used only for the passive homossexual. It's applied (in a derrogatory sense) to _all _male homossexuals.



Your interpretation is extremely unlikely in this context, which you couldn't know of course, because you don't have the whole context, but here's the message:

De: *Woman's name
*Data: XXX
Assunto: meu josinho
 Para: Jose...
meu jo to com saudade de vc meu gato
vc quer me comer amor eu quero da pra vc
seu boiola

bjosss amor


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## Denis555

William Stein said:


> Your interpretation is extremely unlikely in this context, which you couldn't know of course, because you don't have the whole context, but here's the message:
> 
> De: *Woman's name
> *Data: XXX
> Assunto: meu josinho
> Para: Jose...
> meu jo to com saudade de vc meu gato
> vc quer me comer amor eu quero da pra vc
> seu boiola
> 
> bjosss amor



As I posted on the other thread, without any other piece of evidence that proves the contrary; to me, to Macunaíma and other Brazilians it's rather clear that "seu boiola(!)" here is "you faggot!" and the woman is not signing her letter with "seu boiola".
Of course, you're free to choose (and translate) but trust the native speakers...


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## Outsider

William Stein said:


> That's what I thought but then I saw that the author was a woman, but passive homosexuals can have girls' names so you must be right.


Do you know that this is a woman, or do you just know the name this person uses on e-mail? I suppose it could be a man using a female nickname. It does seem to fit with the rest of the message.


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## William Stein

That's what I've been saying from the beginning, it's probably a nickname.


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## Vanda

As our folk have said above: boiola for us is always male gays. 
The usage of ''seu boiola'', as Dennis said, it is like when we say: ''you little pumpkin'' (not the translation of boiola, I am just trying to give an example of you in the context).


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## machadinho

Denis555 said:


> 3) Seu (=Senhor) Boiola (=Mr. Faggot) -> This option is *ruled out*! "Seu" with this meaning is used rather to call someone, instead of calling yourself.
> Ex. -O senhor é o seu Paulo? - Sim, eu sou o senhor Paulo. [normalmente: -Sim, sou eu mesmo]
> (=Sir, are you Mr. Paulo? -Yes, I'm Mr. Paulo [usually: -Yes, it's me])


No, it's *not* ruled out. In fact it's the correct interpretation. See below.


William Stein said:


> That's a overly complex interpretation as   opposed to "your little faggot", which is very simple and fits well.   Anyway, don't you think it a bit odd that the author would decide to   call the addressee "You little faggot" at the end of the message   precisely where people usually write the "yours truly", etc.?


William, seu boiola means you, mister faggot, i.e., the addressee is called a faggot, *not* the sender, and affectionately at that. This seu means mister here. Take a look at this definition of seu from Houaiss:


> *seu*² *s.m.* senhor  ('tratamento respeitoso') [Empregado diante de nome de pessoa, ou de outro  axiônimo, ou de palavra designativa de profissão.] «seu Joaquim; seu  doutor; seu delegado» (V. fem.: _sinhá_, _sinha_, _siá_, _sia_, _senha_) * uso empregado também com valor *afetivo* (_seu bobinho!_) de forma *jocosa* [...] ou *disfêmica* (_seu pateta!_), ou, ainda, com matiz interjetivo (_tinha coragem de me enfrentar nada, seu!_)


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## Denis555

machadinho said:


> No, it's *not* ruled out. In fact it's the correct interpretation. See below.
> 
> William, seu boiola means you, mister faggot, i.e., the addressee is called a faggot, *not* the sender, and affectionately at that. This seu means mister here. Take a look at this definition of seu from Houaiss:



Machadinho,

Have a look at what I said (wrote) again:

--------
Well, "seu" in Portuguese has 3 basic meanings! -> 
*1)* seu carro (=your car) -> possessive (but also: his, her, its, their)
*2)* seu ladrão! (=you thief!), seu idiota! (= you idiot!), seu filho da  puta! (=you son of a bitch!) -> here meaning "you" in this kind of  situations. Adressed to a woman, feminine form: sua, Plurals: seus(m),  suas(f)
*3)* Seu Roberto (=Mr. Roberto), From "senhor". Feminine form: Dona Maria  (= Mrs. Maria). It is colloquial, but largely used in Brazil.

So, having said that, "seu boiola" can point to both ways. 
It could have meant:
1) Seu boiola (= your faggot) [I'm a faggot and I belong to you]
2) Seu boiola! (=you faggot!) [I'm calling you a faggot]

3) Seu (=Senhor) Boiola (=Mr. Faggot) -> This option is *ruled out*! "Seu" with this meaning is used rather to call someone, instead of calling yourself. 
Ex. -O senhor é o seu Paulo? - Sim, eu sou o senhor Paulo. [normalmente: -Sim, sou eu mesmo] 
(=Sir, are you Mr. Paulo? -Yes, I'm Mr. Paulo [usually: -Yes, it's me])

---------

What you're saying is actually option 2)
Option 3) is when you use it before a proper name: seu Marcos, seu Antônio or when it's a feminine proper name with "dona": dona Maria, dona Teresa, etc.
Houaiss put two options in just one. I've made a distinction: 
Option 2) For insulting. Feminine: sua -> sua puta! (=you bitch!)
And option 3) Before proper names, equivalent of "dona".


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## Ariel Knightly

As everyone has already said, _seu boiola_ is the same as _you faggot_. I know it sounds weird but some vulgar women do really call their boyfriends a faggot here in Brazil. They do that in order to manipulate their partners into doing something men are normally expected to do: men are supposed to be always ready and willing to have sex with women. 

*Original message:*
Jose...
meu jo to com saudade de vc meu gato
vc quer me comer amor eu quero da pra vc
seu boiola

bjosss amor         
-----------------------------------------
*Message in "stantard" Portuguese:*
José... meu Jô,

Estou com saudade de você, meu gato. Você quer me comer, amor? Quero dar para você, seu boiola!

Beijos,
Amor
-----------------------------------------
*Message in English:*
José... my Jô,

I miss you, gorgeous. Do you want to fuck me, honey? I want to spread for you, you faggot!


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## machadinho

Denis555 said:


> Houaiss put two options in just one. I've made a distinction:


Hi, Denis. I think Houaiss is right in not distinguishing between (2) and (3). They both mean mister, but are used differently. And it's rather hard to explain how seu can possibly mean you. Although the *literal* translation is *mister* faggot, I agree with all of you that the *best* translation is *you little* faggot.


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## Carfer

machadinho said:


> And it's rather hard to explain how seu can possibly mean you.



No entanto, em Portugal também usamos _'seu_' nessa acepção de '_you_' e não o usamos no sentido de '_senhor_'. Nesse sentido, nunca interpretaria _'sua puta_' ou _'seu panasca' _como significando _'senhora puta_' ou _'senhor panasca'. _Não sei explicar a raiz desse uso, mas, pelo menos por cá, não se confunde com '_senhor_'.


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## Vanda

Ah, mas usamos os dois sentidos, Carfer. O contexto ou o tom é quem dará a nota.


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## machadinho

Carfer, aceito sem discutir que a associação de seu com senhor em seu panaca não esteja mais presente à intuição do falante contemporâneo no Brasil. No entanto, acho também que, ao entendermos seu como you, estamos antes enxergando a língua portuguesa através dos óculos da inglesa, em vez de a contemplar por si mesma.¹

É evidente que, ao dizermos seu panaca, queremos dizer que o ouvinte (you) é um panaca. Mas do ponto de vista da linguagem, e tão só da linguagem, o que exprimimos é um vocativo composto de 2 termos: seu+panaca. Substitua seu por você|tu e verá que tu panaca já não faz tanto sentido como seu panaca. Sintaticamente não cabe um pronome pessoal aí. Neste caso, o ônus da prova não está comigo.

Quanto a sua puta, o ônus da prova está comigo. Está claro que sua *não* deriva de dona; e, pouco provável que derive de senhora, suponho que a forma feminina do vocativo tenha surgido por analogia com a masculina. De tanto ouvir seu panaca, seu idiota, começamos a dizer sua panaca, sua idiota.

Entendo que seu não significa senhor em Portugal; porém, não é de todo impossível que aquela acepção de seu em seu panaca seja influência do português do Brasil em Portugal.

¹A boa tradução não deixa de ser you.


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## uchi.m

Carfer said:


> No entanto, em Portugal também usamos _'seu_' nessa acepção de '_you_' e não o usamos no sentido de '_senhor_'. Nesse sentido, nunca interpretaria _'sua puta_' ou _'seu panasca' _como significando _'senhora puta_' ou _'senhor panasca'. _Não sei explicar a raiz desse uso, mas, pelo menos por cá, não se confunde com '_senhor_'.


[digress mode]

Na verdade, esse _seu_ com significado de _senhor_ é o resultado de uma deformação que ocorreu com o tempo. Originalmente não se dizia seu, mas sim _sinhô_, _siô_ e, com o passar do tempo, virou _seu_.
Deduzi isso pensando na palavra _sua_; não dizemos _Sua Maria João_ com o significado de _Senhora Maria João_, pois a palavra _senhora_, a meu ver, não pode ser primitiva de _sua_ da mesma forma que _senhor_ é de _seu. _A sonoridade de _senhora_ não pode ser deformada em, ou melhor, até _sua_.

[/digress mode]


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## Alentugano

machadinho said:


> Entendo que seu não significa senhor em Portugal; porém, não é de todo impossível que aquela acepção de seu em seu panaca seja influência do português do Brasil em Portugal.


Machado, não creio que esse uso de _seu_ tenha alguma coisa a ver com uma singularidade do português brasileiro. Seu idiota/seu burro/seu estúpido, etc., lê-se e ouve-se em Portugal em obras contemporâneas e antigas e de pessoas novas e velhas.
Ah, e Carfer não escreveu panaca, mas panasca, que em Portugal é mais ou menos como boiola ou bicha.


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## cordobes82

William Stein said:


> I didn't mean to be homophobic. Here's what I mean:
> 1) I was given a short exchange of e-mails to translate with no explanation of the context.
> 2) The exchange is between "Denise" and "Jose", so at first I thought it was between a man and a woman.
> 3) Denise signs "her" letters "boiola" and the only meaning of "boiola" I could find in the dictionary was ""faggot, passive homosexual" and that was confirmed by Portvcale.
> 4) I therefore assume that the "Denise" alias "biola" is a male homosexual in the feminine (passive) role. What is homophobic about that?
> "




Then the dictionary is homophobic. "Boiola" is slang, it's not a formal word. And it's not a good way to call homosexuals. It's like saying "nigger" to black people, or even worse. Well, in every language there are offensive words agains gays, I guess.
But the case is that this fact has nothing to do with a passive or active homosexual. You supposed the guy is named as woman just because he's gay. Well, I'm gay, enjoy very much being passive and don't consider myself a woman. That's what I wanted to say.

Hugs!


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## William Stein

cordobes82 said:


> Then the dictionary is homophobic. "Boiola" is slang, it's not a formal word. And it's not a good way to call homosexuals. It's like saying "nigger" to black people, or even worse. Well, in every language there are offensive words agains gays, I guess.
> But the case is that this fact has nothing to do with a passive or active homosexual. You supposed the guy is named as woman just because he's gay. Well, I'm gay, enjoy very much being passive and don't consider myself a woman. That's what I wanted to say.
> 
> Hugs!



I don't want to get back into this whole debate, but I didn't just suppose the guy has a woman's name. The message starts out:
From: Denise...
To: Jose....

That's why I was so confused (not to mention the fact that I didn't know any of those slang words because I only translate legal and technical documents). 

As to your sexual preferences, that's your business, I'm too much of an individualist and non-conformist to care very much about social norms.


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## cordobes82

William Stein said:


> That's what I thought but then I saw that the author was a woman, but passive homosexuals can have girls' names so you must be right.




No. You are wrong. Homosexuals are men, it does have nothing to do with their sexual preferences. They have men's names. Unless someone defines him(her)self as a woman, or is a tranvestite, or likes to dress and behave as a woman. But that is not the definition of a gay man, even if he's passive. Many passive men are rugby players, footballers, and identify themselves as MEN. Period.


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## William Stein

The point which I considered offensive is the following, look CAREFULLY:

 No. You are wrong. Homosexuals are men, it does have nothing to do with their sexual preferences. They have men's names. Although someone defines him(her)self as a woman, or is a tranvestite, or likes to dress and behave as a woman. But that is not the definition of a gay man, even if he's passive. Many passive men are rugby players, footballers, and identify themselves as MEN.  Period.[/QUOTE]

Where did I say I was trying to define a gay man in general? I was never interested in discussing gay people in general I was just trying to figure out that passage without any context. If a homosexual man chooses to give himself a woman's name (in this case Denise), then I think he should have that right, regardless of his name on the birth certificate (see, I am defending gay rights!)

By the way, thanks to Ariel's explanations, I now realize that Denise is probably a woman. I didn't know that "seu..." could mean "you...", I thought it meant "your...". I can understand why you would be offended by Brazilian women talking like that but you shouldn't be angry at me for having to translate it.
As to homosexuals going by women's names, I had a homosexual friend at a discotheque I used to go to who called himself "Angie" (a girl's name), and everybody called him that name and nobody even knew his real name, so I am not just imagining things (of course that doesn't mean that _every_ male homosexual has a woman's name). Anyway, I'm sorry about the misunderstanding, I certainly never meant to offend anybody and I have nothing against homosexuals.


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