# Common characteristics of spanish accent



## eloisa

Hello everyone!
I wanted to ask the english speaker what are those most common charactheristics the spanish speakers have talking english. Some people told me it's the "s" some other told me they are the "t"'s and that we pronounce them really hard. I could figure out the "i"'s are also a problem as we pronounce them as i's and english speakers tend to pronounce something similar to an e.
What is it that lets you tell who is spanish by his/her accent?
I am concerned as I really want to improve on that and no one can tell me exactly what is the problem, hehe. 
Thanks everyone!
Eloisa


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## Cracker Jack

Here are my observations. The first sentence illustrates is how Spaniards pronounce. The second one is how it should be.

D - At the beginning it is pronounced fuerte. It should be suave.
Ex. Day is day and not they.

In the end it is pronounced suave. It should be fuerte.
Ex. Bread is bread and not breath.

R - It is pronounced fuerte. But it should be slurred.

U - It is pronounced like Spanish u. But it is very near short A.

Z - It is being sounded like a lisp. In English it should be like S.

WO - It is being pronounced like GWO. It should be pronounced like UO.

G - At the end of the word, it is pronounced like K. It should be pronounced 
     as G.
Ex. Dog is not Dok but Dogggg. 

X - At the end of the word, it is pronounced like S. But it should be pronounced as 
KS.
Ex. Mix is not Mis but Miks. 

The English phonetics is really difficult for Spanish people because in Spanish, the words are pronounced as they are spelled and even the media and advertisers on TV have taken this practice.

I commend you for your resolve on improving. You can find native speakers in your city and practice with them. Or watch DVDs and repeat periodically the dialogue. Let's hear from our native speakers.  Good luck on your bid.


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## HollyH

Many times I hear Spanish speakers add an E to the beginning of a word that really starts with S.  For example:  school becomes eschool.  Or start becomes estart.


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## sendai

1. Unaspirated consonants: In English, the sounds CH, K, P, T are aspirated (there's a puff of air that comes out of your mouth). Spanish speakers (and speakers of many other languages) have a hard time with this, and for me it's the number one sign of a non-native speaker.

2. There are a number of vowel sounds in English that don't exist in Spanish. The classic one is the I in itch, fit, bit, etc. Spanish speakers often prononce it like the Spanish I, saying instead each, feet, beet. Also the so-called schwa sound, so wunder is pronounced like guánder, which sounds more like wander to an English speaker.

3. The English R is very unlike the Spanish R.  Spanish speakers have as much trouble with our R as we have with theirs.

4. There are a number of consonant clusters that don't exist in Spanish. Strength, spring, sphinx, twelfths, and infarcts are good examples of difficult words.


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## Fonεtiks

Many things, but you have to take into account the different spanish accents. I think Spaniards sound the hardest. Sin ofender.

Spanish speakers tend to pronounce English consonants as they sound in Spanish (extension of /s/ for /εs/, substitution of /q/ for /s/ or /f/) and they also are inclined to replace English vowels with the closest Spanish vowels. Final consonants are a major problem due to the fact that Spanish doesn’t have the wide variety of consonant endings that English possesses.

I think that there are no similar vowels between English and Spanish, it is usually a mistake to try to pronounce or compare vowels as they sound in Spanish. The fact that students learn how to pronounce vowels as they sound compared to Spanish since early school worsens this problem. For instance, kids are taught that the word apple can be pronounced as /apol/, overriding the vowels /æ/ and /ә/

Some problems (among many others):

VOWELS

/*æ*/ and /*α*/ hat /h*æ*t/ and hot /h*α*t/ (American English)

/*Ɔ*/ and /*α*/ caught /k*Ɔ*t/ and cot /k*α*t/

/*Ɔ*/ and /*oU*/ go as /g*Ɔ*/ and not /g*oU*/

/*U*/ and /*u:*/ pull /p*U*l/ and pool /p*u:*l/

/*I*/ and /*i:*/ leave /l*i:*v/ and live /l*I*v/

/*ә*/ mispronounced in many ways, like love /l*ә*v/ for /l*Ɔ*v/, does /d*ә*z/ for /d*a*s/ were /w*ә*r/ for /w*ε*r/

/*æ*/ as /*a*/ or /*e*/ (cat, thanks)

/*ε*/ as /*e*/ (bed, help)


CONSONANTS

/*∫*/ and /*t**∫*/ wash /wα*∫*/ and watch /wα*t**∫*/

/*v*/ and /*b*/ very /*v*εrI/ and bury /*b*εrI/

/*s*/ and /*z*/ keys as /ki:*s*/ and not /kiy*z*/

/*ð*/ and /*d*/ there /*ð*εәr/ and dare /*d*εәr/

/*q*/ and /*s*/ think /*q*Iŋk/ and sink /*s*Iŋk/

/*d**ʒ*/ and /*y*/ you /*y*u:/ and Jew /*d**ʒ*u:/

/*ʒ*/ and /*∫*/ explosion /Iksplo*U∫*әn/ for /IksploU*ʒ*әn/

/*d**ʒ*/ and /*t**∫*/ judge /*t**∫*ә*t**∫*/ for /*d**ʒ*ә*d**ʒ*/

/*g*/ and /*w*/ would /*w*Ud/ for good /*g*Ud/

/*ε**s*/ for /*s*/ student as /*ε**s*tuwdәnt/ and not /*s*tudent/

/*t*/ for /*εd*/ learned /lәrn*t*/ and /lәrn*ε**d*/

/*th*/ for Spanish /*t*/ take /*th*eyk/ for /*t*eyk/ without aspiration

/*ŋ*/ for /*n*/ sing /sI*ŋ*/ for sin /sI*n*/

Omission of final consonants like /*t*/, /*d*/, /*n*/ and /*k*/
Replacement of final consonants like /*t*/ for /*k*/, /*m*/ for /*n*/ and /*g*/ for /*k*/
Omission of obscuration of function words (using the schwa /ә/, /I/)
Omission of stressing of content words (vowel sounds in context, specially /æ/, /α/ and diphthongs)


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## Terry Mount

I have noticed that some of my friends who speak very well will pronounce "thing" as the same as (or very similar to) the English word "thin".... The "g" is dropped and the vowel "i" is shifted away from the appropriate sound.

The quality of the "i" and the pronunciation of the "ng" just aren't quite native. One should say /*ŋ*/ but it comes out /*n*/).

This doesn't interfere with comprehension, of course, but it is something that one notices.


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## Cracker Jack

Terry Mount said:
			
		

> I have noticed that some of my friends who speak very well will pronounce "thing" as the same as (or very similar to) the English word "thin"...
> 
> The quality of the "i" and the pronounciation of the "ng" (should be /*ŋ*/ fbut comes out /*n*/) just aren't quite native. This doesn't interfere with comprehension, of course, but it is something that one notices.


 
In view of this, I would like to add an observation.  My friends from South America and Las Canarias often pronounce Spanish words ending in "n" as ng.
This is in stark contrast to what you have observed.

Ex.
ESTAN          = ESTANG
TENIAN         = TENIANG
CANTAN        = CANGTANG

It is most evident for words ending in AN but not much for EN, IN, ON or UN.


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## Fonεtiks

Cracker Jack said:
			
		

> It is most evident for words ending in AN but not much for EN, IN, ON or UN.


Yes, that's because we pronounce final n as *ŋ*
Juan = /hwâŋ/ and not /hwan/ as expected by English speakers


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## Terry Mount

Otra curiosidad de la 'n' final... he observado especialmente en Yucatán que la "n" final a veces es muy parecido (si no idéntica) a la "m".

Oigo "Yucatam," por ejemplo. ¿Algunos comentarios?


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## Fonεtiks

También es omitida al querer pronunciar algunas palabras en inglés:
nine /nain/ = /nai/


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## bluejazzshark

Everyone here has concentrated on pronunciation. I think they've covered everything. Most obvious is the failure to pronounce "i" correctly in "free flow" (i.e. without thinking about it). Then of course the shwa sound, which crops up everywhere in english, and is probably THE distinguishing characteristic of the English  vowel system.

Gramatically, there are a couple of other points. Even quite advanced Spanish speakers get their adjectives in the wrong order when speaking (not frequently, but you know...).

The other one is the present perfect. Spanish speakers tend to translate into the present -- "llevo un año en Madrid" is often heard as "I'm one year in Madrid" and the Spanish detector  hits 100%. All those "desde hace", "llevar + periodo" phrases need to be translated into the present perfect in English.

Another common obvious problem is not making contractions when English people would. 99% of the time, English speakers say "I've seen her" whereas Spaniards seem to avoid the contraction with "I have seen her".

Another very obvious problem is "timing". Unfortunately, Spanish is a syllable timed language, meaning its rhythm is based on alternating vowel-consonant sounds, whereas English is completely stress-timed. The stress timing means that vowels get wiped out by shwa's and important words (usually nouns) get silly amounts of stress. This affects the intonation of the whole sentence. Spanish speakers tend to sound "monotonous" because they feel like it's silly to change intonation too much when it's "all in the words", and furthermore think its terrible to reduce a vowel to anything as weak as a shwa sound.

A Spanish speaker will say:

O O   O      O  O   O
I am going to the shops.

And an English speaker will say:

      O                O
I'm going tuthu shops


English philology isn't actually complicated in itself -- it's just difficult to remember and reproduce. 

This is not a Spanish specific problem, but it's more obvious in Spanish speakers because Spanish itself lends equal importance to all vowels at all times, whereas in English, this is definitely not the case. 


Hope that helps!

- Blue


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## duder

Many people will already be familiar with this site, but you can find audio samples of native Spanish speakers reading English, often accompanied by phonetic transcriptions, at the Speech Accent Archive:

samples of native Spanish speakers

edit: samples of native English speakers (for comparison)

edit 2: here is another resource, just search for the country (ex: Spain) that you want to hear the accent for:

http://www.ku.edu/~idea/index.htm


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## MiriamArg

Research shows that /a:/, as in "father", is the English sound that native speakers of Spanish find the most difficult to produce correctly. I believe it's true.

Miriam


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## Terry Mount

This is interesting since "father" is often mentioned in textbooks as an English word whose "a" is extremely close to the Spanish "a". ????!!!!!

http://members.aol.com/alysser/abcdario.htm

*El Alfabeto Hispano
**a = ah, as in father*


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## eloisa

thanks everyone for your replies. truly interesting!

thanks also for the link!


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## Fonεtiks

Nice link! Of course, we were forgetting about the particular intonation English has vs. the syllable-stressed Spanish utterances, that's very noticeable


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## Outsider

Terry Mount said:
			
		

> This is interesting since "father" is often mentioned in textbooks as an English word whose "a" is extremely close to the Spanish "a". ????!!!!!
> 
> http://members.aol.com/alysser/abcdario.htm
> 
> *El Alfabeto Hispano
> **a = ah, as in father*


They sound very close to me, too!

Perhaps MiriamArg was thinking of the [ae] sound, in _cat, bad, dad_.


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## VenusEnvy

I have noticed that MANY non-native-English speakers have trouble with the _th _ in English.

When the Spanish speakers that I know say _Tuesday _ and _Thursday_, I have trouble telling them apart.


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## MiriamArg

Outsider said:
			
		

> They sound very close to me, too!
> 
> Perhaps MiriamArg was thinking of the [ae] sound, in _cat, bad, dad_.



Hi, Outsider.
I wasn't thinking of /æ/, which isn't a sound we tend to have problems with.
However, many Spanish speakers tend to pronounce the /a:/ more like the "roof", the vowel sound in words like "front" and "mother".
We have two different vowel sounds in "casa" -one for each "a"- but none of them is really close to /a:/. The first "a" is close to the "a" in "front", and the final "a" resembles -to some extent- the sound of "schwa" in final position in English words.

Miriam


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## Mr Bones

We have several problems because our languages are very different. I provide you a couple of cases that are difficult to me (out of hundreds of them).

The end of this word
*Betrothed *
 
You have to pronounce like this ʊðd really? The combination of the two last consonant sounds kills me, mostly while speaking. Do you have any suggestions to improve?
 
As for me, the probem is not the sounds alone, but combining them. For instance, I can produce the t and the th, but when I have to say "let the others" very quickly, I have trouble.
 
Another problem is for us the sound w in would. We tend to say "good". So I prefer when we can make the contraction, but isn't always possible.
 
And a last question: Is intonation that important for you, native speakers? Because I thik that we -spaniards- feel awkward trying to intonate. It's the opposite of our language, which is chiefly monotonous, and we feel as if we were trying to speak like actors and actresses in a film. We are pretty shy and no particularly good at learning languages.
 
Bye, Mr Bones


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## Cracker Jack

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> Another problem is for us the sound w in would. We tend to say "good". So I prefer when we can make the contraction, but isn't always possible.


 
I agree with you Mr Bones.  This is so because W + vowel virtually doesn't exist in Spanish.  That's probably the reason why Prince William became Guillermo.  I suggest you pronounce "wo" as "uo" or any combination of w + vowel as u + vowel.  It is nearest to it.


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## Mr Bones

Thank you, Cracker Jack. Some time ago, I learned in wordreference that the weak form of would is pronounced with the schwa, that is wəd.

That proved very helpful to me. I coincides with what you've said. Mr Bones.


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## Outsider

MiriamArg said:
			
		

> Hi, Outsider.
> I wasn't thinking of /æ/, which isn't a sound we tend to have problems with.


Hi, Miriam, thank you for your reply. 



			
				MiriamArg said:
			
		

> However, many Spanish speakers tend to pronounce the /a:/ more like the "roof", the vowel sound in words like "front" and "mother".


Is that so different from the sound of the "a" in "father"? They seem close to me...



			
				MiriamArg said:
			
		

> We have two different vowel sounds in "casa" -one for each "a"- but none of them is really close to /a:/. The first "a" is close to the "a" in "front", and the final "a" resembles -to some extent- the sound of "schwa" in final position in English words.


Are referring to the open back unrounded vowel and the open front unrounded vowel? I hadn't realised that Spanish had both.


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## Fonεtiks

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> *Betrothed *
> 
> You have to pronounce like this ʊðd really? The combination of the two last consonant sounds kills me, mostly while speaking. Do you have any suggestions to improve?
> Bye, Mr Bones


 
Like in teethed, soothed or breathed? Well, try to strongly pronounce "dedo" and you'll most likely say /dεðo/ with the second "d" as the English ð.

Then try to say dedddddo trying to return to the original Spanish d after the second d. It might help.


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## jess oh seven

i taught English in Spain for a while, so i hope i can remember a few....

- the sounds that J and Y make are always mixed up. my name is Jessie not Yessie!!!
- D always comes out as very soft, when it should be harder in English
- when reading, any word with a "rr" in it (eg. carry) gets pronounced with a really strong Spanish double R.
- M and N are often mixed up for some reason, even though the sounds are distinct in Spanish... some of my pupils used to say "wemsday" for "wednesday"
- C before E and I, and Z, are pronounced "th" and shouldn't be
- all syllables seem to be spoken at the same length, which is characteristic of Spanish, but English has various long and short sounds. 
- difficulty in distinguishing between long and short vowel sounds, or similar vowel sounds, eg. one girl i had couldn't hear the difference between "ran" and "run" and it was affecting her pronunciation.


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## sergio11

As everyone may guess, I had a heavy accent when I first came to the US.  I took some courses with teachers of the English language, but they did not help much.  Then I heard there was a lady in Beverly Hills who gave classes for foreigners to improve their accent.  I found her and took some classes from her.  Our relationship was very short-lived, because we did not get along very well. She trated me like trash and, when she was not angry at me, she was very condescending.  I stopped going to her.  However, I learned enough from her to know that the approach was a promising one and I also found out that she was a speech therapist.  

After I left her, I found another speech therapist and talked with him about my interest in learning English pronounciation.  This therapist said he had never seen such thing and did not know it could be done, but took the challenge. It was very useful and I learned a lot.  I still have a significant accent and will probably never get rid of it, but the classes with these speech therapists really helped a lot.  

If you have the possibility to take private lessons from a speech therapist (native to the English language, of course), I recommend it highly.

Saludos


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## jacinta

This thread is very timely for me.  I am helping out in an ELD (English Laguage Development) class with high schoolers.  The majority are Latino, many from Mexico.  I have so much fun with them because they are such eager learners.  They love to joke around (mostly in Spanish).  But also, they are teenagers and can be very lazy!

Today I was helping a boy who has very low English skills.  I was helping him write one sentence and I was spelling some word, I can't remember which (there were so many!) but I watched as he wrote.  Whenever I said a word beginning with "th", he wrote a "d".  The Spanish "d" sounds very much like the word "they".  Imagine when I got to a vowel!  

This isn't much help, but the "d" is tricky for Spanish speakers.  In English, the tongue doesn't touch the teeth but stays on the roof of the mouth.


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## Mr Bones

Fonεtiks said:
			
		

> Like in teethed, soothed or breathed? Well, try to strongly pronounce "dedo" and you'll most likely say /dεðo/ with the second "d" as the English ð.
> 
> Then try to say dedddddo trying to return to the original Spanish d after the second d. It might help.


 
Thank you, Fonetics, I think It's been a sound advice. I've been practiced it and it seems like I'm improving.

By the way, I have a suggestion for anyone who teaches English. Maybe it's a very obvious one, but sometimes obvious things are the most important. My English skills went better when I studied very carefully the International Pronunciation Alphabet (I think that's the name, I never remember). For us, spaniards, that's a really useful device because it allows us to understand, learn and accept that English sounds are different from Spanish ones. As I said above, that may be pretty obvious, but I met people that had studied English for twenty years and couldn't use these signs as a help. They didn't care, either. So, if I was to start studying English again, I begin with the IPA. It's been a major help to me.

Best regards, Mr Bones.


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## jess oh seven

i think a large portion of developing a more native-sounding accent is to put it on consciously. mimic what you hear, even if it feels like you're acting... you kind of have to to begin with!


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## Mr Bones

Thank you, jess. This is kind of difficult for us, but I know I should try? That's why I answered above if intonation is that important for a native speaker. I have a language exchange with an australian friend and he always stresses this importance. When I try to do it I feel as I were acting, and that's a bit embarrassing. I'll do it, though. Bones.


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## Stoichkov8

jess oh seven said:
			
		

> i taught English in Spain for a while, so i hope i can remember a few....
> 
> - the sounds that J and Y make are always mixed up. my name is Jessie not Yessie!!!
> - D always comes out as very soft, when it should be harder in English
> - when reading, any word with a "rr" in it (eg. carry) gets pronounced with a really strong Spanish double R.
> - M and N are often mixed up for some reason, even though the sounds are distinct in Spanish... some of my pupils used to say "wemsday" for "wednesday"
> - C before E and I, and Z, are pronounced "th" and shouldn't be
> - all syllables seem to be spoken at the same length, which is characteristic of Spanish, but English has various long and short sounds.
> - difficulty in distinguishing between long and short vowel sounds, or similar vowel sounds, eg. one girl i had couldn't hear the difference between "ran" and "run" and it was affecting her pronunciation.


 
How can you tell the difference between "ran" and "run"?


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## Soy Yo

No soy fonético...pero creo que no hay equvalente de la "a" (de "ran") ni de la "u" (de "run") en español.  Pero buscando algo cerca, diría que la "a" de "ran" se aproxima a la "e" de "ven" en español.  La "u" de "run" es un? schwa que no existe en español...pero si quieres aproximarlo, es un poco parecido a la "a" de "van."

He ran the "Fun Run."

Creo que si esta oración lo pronuncias así: "Ji ren di fan ran" con la intonación apropiada, te van a comprender.

Seguro que otro te da mejores consejos.

Suerte!


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## Fonεtiks

Stoichkov8 said:
			
		

> How can you tell the difference between "ran" and "run"?


The a in "ran" is pronounced *æ. *Look at my avatar, see the symbol *æ* between ε and a*?* It means it's not exactly e or a, but in the middle. Try saying aaaaa... Now say ae ae ae ae, trying to merge the two sounds, shorter, shorter and tenser. As if you were smiling.

If you still have difficulty try to do a duck: quack, quack, *quæck*

The u in "run" is pronounced Λ, that is an approximant a but not as open and more neutral. Like when you say "amad*a*" if you stress the second a, the third will resemble the English Λ.

Practice this:
cat cut
fan fun
bat but
ran run
laugh love

I've noticed many Americans tend to make *æ* more nasal and closer to ε than the British, who make it closer to a without nasalization.


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## Stoichkov8

Fonεtiks said:
			
		

> The a in "ran" is pronounced *æ. *Look at my avatar, see the symbol *æ* between ε and a*?* It means it's not exactly e or a, but in the middle. Try saying aaaaa... Now say ae ae ae ae, trying to merge the two sounds, shorter, shorter and tenser. As if you were smiling.
> 
> If you still have difficulty try to do a duck: quack, quack, *quæck*
> 
> The u in "run" is pronounced Λ, that is an approximant a but not as open and more neutral. Like when you say "amad*a*" if you stress the second a, the third will resemble the English Λ.
> 
> Practice this:
> cat cut
> fan fun
> bat but
> ran run
> laugh love
> 
> I've noticed many Americans tend to make *æ* more nasal and closer to ε than the British, who make it closer to a without nasalization.


 
 Gracias por la explicacion.Los yankees son gangosos,hablan por la nariz jk


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## Outsider

jacinta said:
			
		

> Today I was helping a boy who has very low English skills.  I was helping him write one sentence and I was spelling some word, I can't remember which (there were so many!) but I watched as he wrote.  Whenever I said a word beginning with "th", he wrote a "d".  The Spanish "d" sounds very much like the word "they".  Imagine when I got to a vowel!
> 
> This isn't much help, but the "d" is tricky for Spanish speakers.  In English, the tongue doesn't touch the teeth but stays on the roof of the mouth.


The Spanish "d" has two allophones. One of them is indeed the English "th" in "they". The other is just the "normal d".

When I started learning English, I would pronounce "they" as "day", because I wasn't able to produce the "th" sound. It took me some time to learn it. But I've always liked languages, so I knew there was a sound there I was not pronouncing properly. I think many people don't even realise that their pronunciation is not perfect yet.



			
				jess oh seven said:
			
		

> i think a large portion of developing a more native-sounding accent is to put it on consciously. mimic what you hear, even if it feels like you're acting... you kind of have to to begin with!


I'd like to second Jess' words. To learn foreign pronunciation, try to mimic foreigners. (For English, for example, imitate Margaret Thatcher, or the Queen).  
Of course, you shouldn't do this to their faces; it may seem rude. But doing it when you are alone, or with friends, even if you exaggerate a bit, is tremendously helpful.


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## bluejazzshark

No, I think this is a mistake.... would does not have a weak form at all. Just
a contracted form as in "If I had seen him, I'd have stopped to say hello".
Would is always pronounced with the phoneme that looks like a horseshoe!

It's the same sound as you find in the words "good" "should" "could" and "wood".
In fact, "wood" and "would" are phonetically identical.

Thought I'd better let you know.

- Huw




			
				Mr Bones said:
			
		

> Thank you, Cracker Jack. Some time ago, I learned in wordreference that the weak form of would is pronounced with the schwa, that is wəd.
> 
> That proved very helpful to me. I coincides with what you've said. Mr Bones.


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## Mr Bones

I looked this up in several dictionaries (wordreference, Cambridge, Oxford and Heilen's) and all of them talks about a weak form and provides the phonetics with the schwa. That's a crucial point for us, foreigners, so I would like to hear more opinions. Thanks. Mr Bones.


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## Outsider

The Merriam-Webster Online acknowledges a schwa pronunciation of "would". I used to think like you, *Bluejazzshark*, but I changed my mind after this thread. "Would" seems to have a stressed and an unstressed form, each pronounced differently. See this other thread, for a similar phenomenon in other English words.


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## jess oh seven

i noticed that Spanish-speakers tend to over-pronounce English vowel sounds sometimes too. you have to be lazy when you speak English!  for example, a lot of vowels are replaced by the "schwa" sound, which is probably why we're always mixing up vowels in our spelling....

i´m trying to think of a good example, but my mind's a blank... haha... can anyone help me?


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## Outsider

A common problem for native speakers of Romance languages are the past participles ending in _-ed_. The _e_ is silent or a schwa, for example "talked" is pronounced "talk'd", but early learners have a tendency to say "talk-Ed".


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## Mr Bones

As a spanish learner, I can certify that that is true. And I'd like to add that it's very hard to assume that concept for us, because it's just the opposite of Spanish. You've just asked for an example. Correct me if I'm wrong. In general, any English vowel or combination of vowels, when it's in a weak position, tend to turn into schwa or ɪ. For instance:

about, ascend, vicious, nursery, pirate, alimony...


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## jacinta

alimony = no schwa    The "o" is long.

I want to say that there is no schwa in nursery.  Can anyone corroborate?


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## Mr Bones

jacinta said:
			
		

> alimony = no schwa The "o" is long.
> 
> I want to say that there is no schwa in nursery. Can anyone corroborate?


 
Hi, Jacinta. Maybe I'm wrong, but both are written with the schwa in the phonetics provided by wordreference. This has happened to me before and it puzzles me because I'm used to trust the dictionary. How do you account for?


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## kiro

Hi. For me, both alimony and nursery have a schwa (and the Oxford dictionary agrees with the WordReference one about that), but I think it could be a difference between American and British pronunciation, seeing as Jacinta is from the USA.
In British English (or really I should say the English which is spoken in most of England, because it's different in Scotland and Ireland) I think we use that "lazy" sound more, and sometimes it can seem for us that Americans "over pronunciate" certain words. A good example of this would be the difference between the pronunciation of Birmingham, Alabama and Birmingham, England. (<<if it were possible to insert a sound clip there, you'd definitely hear the difference ).


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## Christian

You can tell the most noticable element of accents by what the natives make fun off--In English, its Ricky Ricardo's Cuban accent, or the ('Mexican sing-song) óf the Jose Jimenez comedy character, or Cheech and Chong goofing around. Its the rhythm. 

I agree with the "actor" theory for overcoming this. Its not intellectual at all. You just slavishly immitate the rhythm and intonation of your chosen example. If its Maggie Thatcher, you just do your best impersonation of Maggie Thatcher.

In other words, the same thing a Madrileno would do if he was immitating an Andalusian, in his own language.


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## Outsider

jacinta said:
			
		

> alimony = no schwa    The "o" is long.


I think the schwa in "alimony" is the _i_.



			
				jacinta said:
			
		

> I want to say that there is no schwa in nursery.  Can anyone corroborate?


I agree, unless one counts the _e_. But I think that letter is invariably silent in this word and others of the same family (nurse=nurs', nursery=nurs'ry).



			
				Mr Bones said:
			
		

> As a spanish learner, I can certify that that is true. And I'd like to add that it's very hard to assume that concept for us, because it's just the opposite of Spanish. You've just asked for an example. Correct me if I'm wrong. In general, *any English vowel or combination of vowels, when it's in a weak position*, tend to turn into schwa or ?. For instance:
> 
> about, ascend, vicious, nursery, pirate, alimony...


The examples you give show that it isn't just any vowel. For example, the _y_ in "nursery" is not a schwa, nor is the _i_ in "pirate", or the _o_ and the _y_ in "alimony".


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## Terry Mount

Some native speakers pronounce the 'e' in nursery.  Some don't...and it may vary with the same speaker.  Sometimes s/he pronounces it; sometimes s/he doesn't.


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## Terry Mount

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> As a spanish learner, I can certify that that is true. And I'd like to add that it's very hard to assume that concept for us, because it's just the opposite of Spanish. You've just asked for an example. Correct me if I'm wrong. In general, any English vowel or combination of vowels, when it's in a weak position, tend to turn into schwa or ɪ. For instance:
> 
> about, ascend, vicious, nursery, pirate, alimony...


 
Is 'schwa' always pronounced the same? If so, I'd say there is no 'schwa' in 'pirate.' It's definitely not the same as the 'schwa' in the four previous words listed.

I agree that, generally, in US, the 'o' in alimony is not a 'schwa.' The 'o' is long. I'll have to listen better when I watch "Keeping Up Appearances" to decide how they pronounce it in England.


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## kiro

Outsider said:
			
		

> I think the schwa in "alimony" is the _i_.


Hi. The schwa is actually the "o", in BE, and a different sound in AE: _dictionary.cambridge[dot]org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=2070&ph=on_




			
				Outsider said:
			
		

> I agree, unless one counts the _e_. But I think that letter is invariably silent in this word and others of the same family (nurse=nurs', nursery=nurs'ry).


Hmm, I'm not so sure because I think I would always pronounce the "e" in those cases, and the phonetics given in the dictionaries I've checked appear to agree.


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## Outsider

So, you'd pronounce something like "nursa-ree"? Is this it?


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## Outsider

kiro said:
			
		

> Hi. The schwa is actually the "o", in BE, and a different sound in AE:


Do BE and AE stress different syllables in the word? I'm guessing it's

AE: _ali*mo*ny_
BE: _*a*limony_

If so, I can understand how the _o_ would be pronounced as a schwa in BE.


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## kiro

Outsider said:
			
		

> So, you'd pronounce something like "nursa-ree"? Is this it?


I'd say I pronounce it as written in the attachment below...



			
				Outsider said:
			
		

> Do BE and AE stress different syllables in the word? I'm guessing it's
> 
> AE: _ali*mo*ny_
> BE: _*a*limony_
> 
> If so, I can understand how the _o_ would be pronounced as a schwa in BE.


Spot on. I think that's the exact difference.


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## Outsider

Thank you very much for the clarifications.


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## kiro

No worries. 
By the way, looking at the phonetic pronunciation of "nursery" given here: dictionary.cambridge[punto]org/define.asp?dict=CALD&key=54540&ph=on, which is probably somewhat more up-to-date than the entries in the dictionaries I was looking at, it gives a different version of the pronunciation (...or at least I think so, because I'm not very clued-up about phonetic symbols and the like ).


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## Mr Bones

Terry Mount said:
			
		

> Is 'schwa' always pronounced the same? If so, I'd say there is no 'schwa' in 'pirate.' It's definitely not the same as the 'schwa' in the four previous words listed.
> 
> I agree that, generally, in US, the 'o' in alimony is not a 'schwa.' The 'o' is long. I'll have to listen better when I watch "Keeping Up Appearances" to decide how they pronounce it in England.


 
I included pirate as an example of how some weak vowels can sound as an *i* short, not the schwa in this case. But, actually, depending on the dictionary, you can see the *a *turned into an i (wordreference) or a schwa (Cambridge, Oxford). This happens also with endings in -less (restless, tireless, etc.)

Anyway, my intention was principally to emphasize how strange it is, for a Spanish learner, to understand and accept that some vowels change its sound when they are in a weak position.


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## llazaruss

Mr Bones said:
			
		

> As for me, the probem is not the sounds alone, but combining them. For instance, I can produce the t and the th, but when I have to say "let the others" very quickly, I have trouble.



For this particular combination a native speaker would not pronounce two distinct sounds "t" + "th". Most likely, the "t" sound would be dropped and "let the" would become one word with "th" sound (or what would be left of it  {see comments above}) in the middle. I recommend some good reading on photnetics, with special emphasis on linking and assimilation of sounds. It worked for me


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## Terry Mount

Sorry, Mr. Bones, I misread your post.  I thought all were listed as words with "schwa."  You're right, I pronounce 'pirate' with a weakened 'i'...as in "it" but not stressed, of course.

Muy interesante todo esto!!!!


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## Outsider

Terry Mount said:
			
		

> You're right, I pronounce 'pirate' with a weakened 'i'...as in "it" but not stressed, of course.


_Not_ stressed?! What syllable do you stress, in the word "pirate"?


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## Terry Mount

It's PI-rit (or PIR-it).  First syllable stressed.


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## Outsider

I see. You were talking about the pronunciation of the _a_.


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## Terry Mount

Right.  I didn't think the "a" in pirate was reduced to a schwa.... I may be wrong since my dictionary seems to show one.


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## Fonεtiks

llazaruss said:
			
		

> For this particular combination a native speaker would not pronounce two distinct sounds "t" + "th". Most likely, the "t" sound would be dropped and "let the" would become one word with "th" sound (or what would be left of it  {see comments above}) in the middle.


 
True, but when pronounced "let-the" clearly it sounds as let-the"  
I think the t is not released and your tongue has to make a small pause to make it clear.


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## Mr Bones

Fonεtiks said:
			
		

> True, but when pronounced "let-the" clearly it sounds as let-the"
> I think the t is not released and your tongue has to make a small pause to make it clear.


 
I remembered another combination of consonants very difficult to me and, I guess, for most Spaniards. It's *d + th,* like in *I did that*. As you can see, that's a very common one in English. 

Obviously, I can pronounce it well if I'm speaking slowly. The trouble arises when I want to do it a bit faster, in order to reach a normal pace, trying to sound more natural or imitate natives. Then, I'm likely to be in a jam (could I say to get entangled?). 

These kind of problems go against our intonation and hinder us from sound more fluent, although I keep repeating, I did that, I did that, I did that...


Mr Bones


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## Outsider

I still have trouble pronouncing numerals such as "fourth", "fifth", "eighth".


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## sergio11

Outsider said:
			
		

> I still have trouble pronouncing numerals such as "fourth", "fifth", "eighth".


Most people having trouble pronouncing the "th" in either one of its varieties, whether it is as in "three" or as in "there", have not realized that they have to put their tongue between their teeth, meaning between your upper teeth and your lower teeth, of course, as if you were to bite on your tongue (but don't bite; it will hurt).  Once you do that, there will be no problem, because, with your tongue between your teeth, there is no other way of pronouncing it except the right way: whether you want it or not, you will pronounce it correctly.

The only difference between the "th" of "there" or "although" and the "th" of "three" or "fifth" is that one (there, although)  is accompanied by a laryngeal sound, that is, you make a sound as if you were to say "d" but with your tongue between your teeth, and on the other one (three, fifth) you don't make a sound with your larynx, you let the air flow between your tongue and your teeth be the only sound.


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## Outsider

Oh, I can pronounce the "th" well, in general. It's that other consonant before it that makes the pronunciation harder for me.


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## sergio11

Outsider said:
			
		

> Oh, I can pronounce the "th" well, in general. It's that other consonant before it that makes the pronunciation harder for me.


Oh, sorry, I misunderstood you.


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## Outsider

Thanks anyway. It's the thought that counts.


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## eloisa

how should "the" sound? i always said "de", but i was noticing lately (took me 10 years!) that english speakers say it kind of "ze" (z as in spanish z and closed e). can anyone confirm? do you consider that a normal pronounciation mistake done by spanish speakers?

i also have that problem that someone mentioned: practically impossible to say "let the..." fast...


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## sergio11

eloisa said:
			
		

> how should "the" sound? i always said "de", but i was noticing lately (took me 10 years!) that english speakers say it kind of "ze" (z as in spanish z and closed e). can anyone confirm? do you consider that a normal pronounciation mistake done by spanish speakers?
> 
> i also have that problem that someone mentioned: practically impossible to say "let the..." fast...


See my previous posting (No. 65 on this thread) where tried to explain to Outsider how to do it, but he already knew it.  It may be useful to you. 

Saludos


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## Outsider

See also post nr. 35.


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## jess oh seven

also, the tendency to put "e" in front of every word that starts "s + consonant"... espain, estudy, escared... is it an actual physical impossibility or just a habit? i mean, i know Spaniards who speak English almost impeccably with amazing accents and everything, yet they still can't get around this problem. 

for me in Spanish, i have problems with "rr"... it's physically impossible for me to maintain the sound though! i guess...


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## Mr Bones

jess oh seven said:
			
		

> also, the tendency to put "e" in front of every word that starts "s + consonant"... espain, estudy, escared... is it an actual physical impossibility or just a habit? i mean, i know Spaniards who speak English almost impeccably with amazing accents and everything, yet they still can't get around this problem.
> 
> for me in Spanish, i have problems with "rr"... it's physically impossible for me to maintain the sound though! i guess...


 
Hi, Jess. I'm Spanish and I'm aware of this problem (the s). But I think it's only due to laziness or negligence. We can perfectly pronounce the English s without a previous e. There are so many important problems for us to make an effort in English, but this one quite simple. Try to correct your friends and you'll see that they're able to do it right. It's just that they forget about it.
Mr Bones.


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## Outsider

One of the transformations that Latin underwent as it became Spanish was that word initial _s+consonant_ became _es+consonant_: _studium, stadium, spatha_ became _estudio, estadio, espada_. (The same occured in Portuguese.) 

Because words beginning with _s+consonant_ are atypical in Spanish, native speakers of this language have difficulty in pronouncing them, and tend to revert back to transforming the sound sequence into _es+consonant_, as though they were speaking Spanish.


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## sound shift

The English spoken by native speakers of Spanish often sounds flat. I read that Spanish pitch varies by not much more than an octave, whereas the range in English is wider.

Spanish speakers tend to stress the wrong syllable of an English word that should be stressed earlier than the antepenultimate, which is understandable because Spanish does not normally permit stress earlier than the antepenultimate. Thus we hear "the referee has indi*ca*ted a free kick" instead of "*in*dicated".

Question tags with falling pitch seem to be problematical too.


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## pcplus

here it's a recording of a Spanish woman talking, but I don't think she has Spanish accent actually

http://www.ompersonal.com.ar/omaccents2/Spain.htm

let's comment then


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## Mr Bones

pcplus said:


> here it's a recording of a Spanish woman talking, but I don't think she has Spanish accent actually
> 
> http://www.ompersonal.com.ar/omaccents2/Spain.htm
> 
> let's comment then


 

Well, I'm not so sure she is Spanish at all, let alone from Madrid. I wouldn't expect any Spaniard to say Enrique Tierno Galván with that accent. Maybe some websites are not so reliable, you now. Mr Bones.


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## Soy Yo

Could it be that this woman has even anglicized the pronunciation of the Spanish name--or attempted to do so?  I don't know how she sounds to the Brits but I do not consider this a "strong" Spanish accent or any kind of "strong" foreign accent (except insofar as a British accent is foreign to me).


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## Christian

She learned British English. Quite sophisticated and well spoken, I'd say. She could get a job on radio or TV. 

However, her pronunciation of "habits" (habith) is one of the habith she learned somewhere near la platha mayor, no?


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## pcplus

Soy Yo said:


> Could it be that this woman has even anglicized the pronunciation of the Spanish name--or attempted to do so? I don't know how she sounds to the Brits but I do not consider this a "strong" Spanish accent or any kind of "strong" foreign accent (except insofar as a British accent is foreign to me).


how does she sound for you? as a native English speaker? as a Sweden?


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## sniffrat

As far as I can tell, this woman has a perfect _English _accent (RP). I don't think she has ever been to Spain! If you are a native Spanish speaker, and you want to learn British English, you should copy this woman. Her intonation is perfect. (This is just my opinion, of course).


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## pcplus

sniffrat said:


> As far as I can tell, this woman has a perfect _English _accent (RP). I don't think she has ever been to Spain! If you are a native Spanish speaker, and you want to learn British English, you should copy this woman. Her intonation is perfect. (This is just my opinion, of course).


what's RP??

this is the Spanish accent definitively: Fernando Alonso

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdw1TtprnTA


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## ernest_

For a real Spanish woman speaking English, see here:
http://accent.gmu.edu/searchsaa.php?function=detail&speakerid=337

That's the kind of accent you can expect from a Spanish speaking person. That other sample has absolutely no traces of Spanish, I think it must be a mistake.

There's one other thing that no one else has mentioned yet, I think, which are sibiliants. Whereas English has six sibilant sounds, namely /s/ /z/ /ʃ/ /ʒ/ plus /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ (*s*ound, *z*ero, *sh*ift, mea*s*ure, *ch*ap, ga*dg*e), Spanish has only /s/ and /tʃ/, so, Spanish speakers will tend to use only these two. For instance, I heard president Zapatero talking about Aznar and Bus. He meant George Bush, I reckon.


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## pcplus

ernest_ said:


> For a real Spanish woman speaking English, see here:
> http://accent.gmu.edu/searchsaa.php?function=detail&speakerid=337
> 
> That's the kind of accent you can expect from a Spanish speaking person. That other sample has absolutely no traces of Spanish, I think it must be a mistake.
> 
> There's one other thing that no one else has mentioned yet, I think, which are sibiliants. Whereas English has six sibilant sounds, namely /s/ /z/ /ʃ/ /ʒ/ plus /tʃ/ and /dʒ/ (*s*ound, *z*ero, *sh*ift, mea*s*ure, *ch*ap, ga*dg*e), Spanish has only /s/ and /tʃ/, so, Spanish speakers will tend to use only these two. For instance, I heard president Zapatero talking about Aznar and Bus. He meant George Bush, I reckon.


It's absolutely true. She seems a South British native

although the sound "chap" does exists in Spanish, as Chocolate, chapuza.... and English picture and chest


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## tanager

I have to agree with the advice about imitating! My evidence is a little indirect, but it might be helpful. I've sat in on a number of amateur singing lessons, and heard many students who sing classical music in a very unconvincing way. That is, until the teacher tells them to "make fun of an opera singer..." Once they get over their initial reluctance, fear of offending the teacher (who is an opera singer!), and do it, the transformation is incredible and instantaneous. Of course in their minds they are being disrespectful and silly, but it's a first step! ...and they don't sound as ridiculous as they think.


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## pcplus

tanager said:


> I have to agree with the advice about imitating! My evidence is a little indirect, but it might be helpful. I've sat in on a number of amateur singing lessons, and heard many students who sing classical music in a very unconvincing way. That is, until the teacher tells them to "make fun of an opera singer..." Once they get over their initial reluctance, fear of offending the teacher (who is an opera singer!), and do it, the transformation is incredible and instantaneous. Of course in their minds they are being disrespectful and silly, but it's a first step! ...and they don't sound as ridiculous as they think.


Imitating, this is the truth

I have done it now, surely in much part of this one, could I seem like a northern British speaker sometimes??

http://download.yousendit.com/ABAB10F779C0DD20


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## sniffrat

"make fun of an opera singer..." 

Exactly! Make fun of English people! It will improve your accent. I make fun of Spanish people when I am alone. Of course I mean no offence, if you could hear me you would laugh. Obviously I don't sound Spanish but I don't really sound English either. The key word is _fun._

RP = Received Pronunciation ("posh" British English).


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## nelsonoso

'difficult to me' is wrong, your supposed to say difficult for me


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## ReadingFC

'..your supposed to say..' is wrong. You`re supposed to say '..you're supposed to say..'.


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## fenixpollo

During the first years of the forum, our scope was much wider. As traffic has increased, and as the database of threads has grown into 6 figures, the scope of the forum has narrowed greatly. Consequently, this thread is no longer within our scope and has now been closed. Thank you for your understanding.


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