# Ancient Greek: ἐλευθερια etymology, root?



## MindBoggle

Hello everybody. 

I need some help with the etymology of ἐλευθερια.

From which root has it been derived? I can't seem to find any suitable candidates.

I'm thinking it might be from εκ plus λυω 'out of bondage' but the form doesn't look right.

Does anybody have any ideas?

All the best.
MindBoggle


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## apmoy70

Hi MindBoggle,

*«Ἐλευθερία»* is not a cognate of «λύω».
It's a Greek word, ancient (Mycenaean syllabary: e-re-u-te-ra) and of the same proto-Indoeuropean root with the Latin adj. līber (masc.), lībera (fem.), līberum (neut.), Old-Church-Slavonic людиє (people), Proto-Germanic *liudiz (Eng. dialectal lede, Ger. Leute). The reconstructed root is *h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i- and means _people_. The thinking is that līber/ἐλεύθερος is the free man, who belongs to his people, as opposed to subjected peoples.


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## Andrious

Well, there are quite many possibilities. Here's one: http://www.ellopos.net/mail/the-word-freedom.html
If you understand greek, you'll find many more in the web.


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## ireney

Andrious where are the supporting documents for such an etymology?


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## Andrious

Well, you'll find quite a lot stuff just googling _ετυμολογία ελευθερίας_. It's an easy (and hard, at the same time) task.


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## ireney

No, I do not mean that many say this or that. You know and I know that false etymologies have many supporters and that the Interent has helped promulgate many of those.
 I mean documents showing where/what they base their belief at and who of the community of linguist experts supports it and based on which linguistic principles. Since I agree with ampoy and so do all the linguists I know of, I'm afraid the burden of proof falls squarely on you


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## Andrious

Well, ancient greek is not my strong point...  In fact, I barely passed this lesson in high school...  So, I guess the burden of proof falls squarely on someone else


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## apmoy70

Andrious said:


> Well, there are quite many possibilities. Here's one: http://www.ellopos.net/mail/the-word-freedom.html
> If you understand greek, you'll find many more in the web.


Ellopos is a great site, with abundant information resources about the language, but I'm afraid one should take its etymology section with a pint of salt


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## MindBoggle

apmoy70 said:


> Hi MindBoggle,
> 
> *«Ἐλευθερία»* is not a cognate of «λύω».
> It's a Greek word, ancient (Mycenaean syllabary: e-re-u-te-ra) and of the same proto-Indoeuropean root with the Latin adj. līber (masc.), lībera (fem.), līberum (neut.), Old-Church-Slavonic людиє (people), Proto-Germanic *liudiz (Eng. dialectal lede, Ger. Leute). The reconstructed root is *h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i- and means _people_. The thinking is that līber/ἐλεύθερος is the free man, who belongs to his people, as opposed to subjected peoples.



Thank you apmoy, that's very enlightening! 
Do you happen to know the sanskrit cognate to *h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i-? 'People' in sanskrit is generally _janā_, but sometimes _laukika_ (meaning 'of the world') is used. Laukika sounds closer to Leute but looks like a standard derivation from_ loka_ ('world'). 

(addition)

I just found this page: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ielex/X/P1190.html
There is no sanskrit cognate listed. May I conclude, therefore, that none exists?

MindBoggle


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## apmoy70

MindBoggle said:


> Thank you apmoy, that's very enlightening!
> Do you happen to know the sanskrit cognate to *h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i-? 'People' in sanskrit is generally _janā_, but sometimes _laukika_ (meaning 'of the world') is used. Laukika sounds closer to Leute but looks like a standard derivation from_ loka_ ('world').
> 
> (addition)
> 
> I just found this page: http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/ielex/X/P1190.html
> There is no sanskrit cognate listed. May I conclude, therefore, that none exists?
> 
> MindBoggle


Actually there does exist a Skt. cognate: वीरुधा (vIrudh) --> _plant_ (*h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i- means also _to grow_)


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## MindBoggle

apmoy70 said:


> Actually there does exist a Skt. cognate: वीरुधा (vIrudh) --> _plant_ (*h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i- means also _to grow_)



vīrudh is just the prefix vi + rudh, but rudh by itself means grow and definitely looks like a cognate. Thanks a lot.  Where did you find this information?


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## sotos

apmoy70 said:


> Actually there does exist a Skt. cognate: वीरुधा (vIrudh) --> _plant_ (*h₁leudʰ-o-/ *h₁leudʰ-i- means also _to grow_)



Interesting. This strengthens my hypothesis that ελευθερία is related to the meaning of "birth, arrival (έλευσις)". Notice that the godess of birth was Ελευθώ (Λητώ).


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## MindBoggle

sotos said:


> Interesting. This strengthens my hypothesis that ελευθερία is related to the meaning of "birth, arrival (έλευσις)". Notice that the godess of birth was Ελευθώ (Λητώ).



I believe this is correct. In sanskrit the root jan means 'give birth' or 'be born' (cognate with γένεσις). Nominalized it becomes 'janaḥ' meaning 'something born' i.e. a person. In plural 'janāḥ' it becomes 'people'. It's the same semantic movement from birth to person to people. The next logical step is from person or 'member of our people' to 'citizen' to 'not a slave' to 'free' as it happened in Greek and Latin.


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## ailiosjorge

Hi everybody!
This is a very exciting thread -one that has interested me personally for months now.
I figured it it time to make some little contributions.
In "_Parallela Minora", _Pseudo-Plutarch relates the following in Chapter 30 (Classical E-Text: PSEUDO-PLUTARCH, GREEK & ROMAN PARALLEL STORIES):


> The people of Sardis, when they were engaged in war against the people of Smyrna, encamped round about the walls, and sent word through ambassadors that they would never retire unless the people of Smyrna would agree to let their wives consort with them. The Smyrnaeans, because of the compelling necessity, were in a fair way to suffer grievously; but there was a certain maid-servant to one of the better class who ran up to her master Philarchus and said, "You must dress up the maid-servants and send them in place of free-born women." And this, in fact, they did. The men of Sardis were quite exhausted by the serving-maids, and so were taken captive; whence even now the people of Smyrna have a *festival called Eleutheria* in which the maid-servants wear the adornments of free women. So Dositheüs in the third book of his _Lydian History_.



So a festival called "Freedom" commemorating the servants who dressed up like free-born women.

More on the birth/grow/born connection; there's a painting in the Museo Nazionale di Spina, Ferrara, Italy depicting "THE BIRTH OF DIONYSOS": Ancient Greek Art: Birth of Dionysus
The caption to this image reads:


> Dionysos is depicted in this painting newly born from the thigh of Zeus. The king of the gods holds a thyrsos (a pine-cone tipped staff), one of the usual attributes of Dionysos, and sits on a stool spread with a deer skin. His infant son holds a vine-branch in one hand and a wine cup in the other, indicating his destined role as the god of wine. The goddesses Aphrodite and *Eileithyia* stand on either side, Aphrodite holding a pair of flower blooms, and Eileithyia, the *goddess of childbirth*, raising her hand to release the child.


So indeed we have one Eileithyia (which sounds particularly similar to Eleutheria) as goddess  of childbirth.


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## sotos

Concurrent to the meanings of "birth" and "freedom" is the (subconscious)  "coming, arrival" (έλευσις). The coming of a new man in the society, either as a newborn or as a free man. 
Notice the persistence of those meaning in the person of the Οrthodox Saint Eleutherios, the protector of pregnant women, in folk belief.


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## Αγγελος

λευτερώνομαι (<ελευθεροῦμαι) means i.a. "to give birth" in Modern Greek, just as "delivery" (ultimately from Latin "liber") also means the act of giving birth in English.


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