# Finer differences: -arak, -ince, -a -a, -ken!



## chifladoporlosidiomas

Merhaba herkese! 

I was wondering if you guys could help me consolidate my understanding of these four suffixes? I've looked up the topics here, here, here, and here, but I'd like to have it all in one place so that everyone could potentially benefit from it. First I'll (try to) explain how I understand them, then you guys can correct (be ruthless!) and add any additional information. 

-ken: This one isn't that hard for me. I understand it as being "while"/"when…-ing" or an action that is happening on at the same time as the main verb, but on a different parallel.
Examples: 
Selim beyle konuşurken kapı çalınmaya başladı. (While I was talking to Mr. Selim, someone started knocking at the door)
Çocukken okula gitmeyi hiç sevmezdim. (When I was a kid, I didn't like going to school one bit/at all)
Ayşe'yle dans ederken gözlerinie bakıp "seni seviyorum" dedim. (When I was dancing with Ayshe I looked into her eyes and told her, "I love you.")

-ince: I translate this as "upon"/"when…(-ed)". An action that happens before the main verb happens or a verb that has a definite beginning and end.
Examples:
Bu akşam annenle görüşünce yeni ayakkabına ihtiyacın olduğunu söyle. (When you talk to your mom this evening tell her that you need a new pair of shoes)
Moskova'ya gitince güzelliğini görelim diye çok fotoğraf çek lütfen. (When you go to Moscow, please take a lot of pictures so we can see how beautiful it is)
Evimize girince herkese merhaba söylemen lâzım. (When you come into our house, you must say hi to everyone)

The next two are kind of hard for me because I _feel_ like they're interchangeable, but at the same time I _know _they're not. 

-a -a: This one is used to turn a verb into an adverb (the simple explanation I tell myself).
Derslerinden sonra eve koşa koşa geldi. (After his classes, he came home running; manner in which he came)
Onu bile bile yaptın ya! (You did that knowingly/on purpose!)
"Sevişe sevişe konuş" (Talk lovingly/sweetly)

-arak: This describes an action that is happening at the same exact time as the main verb and on the same parallel. This one I feel like is interchangeable in the examples above, but I can think of a couple of time when I wouldn't the -a -a, but -arak yes.
Yemek yiyerek konuşma. (Don't talk while eating; couldn't be 'yerken' because it wasn't interrupted, not yiyence because it didn't happen before, and yiye yiye sounds weird to me)
Islık çalarak çalışıyor. (She works while whistling)
Toprağa bakarak cevap verdi. (Looking at the ground, she answered).

The problem that I have is that they can all to a certain extent be translated with either "when" or "while" and sometimes I do feel like I'm making the wrong choice. 

If you guys could give your opinions about these (and make any corrections) I would really appreciate it!

Şimdiden çok teşekkür ederim.

Guy


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## Gemmenita

Merhaba chiflad,

Aferin sana! Her şeyi çok iyi anlamışsın (hem de anlatmışsın.)

1.Sadece küçük bir düzeltme:



> Moskova'ya gi*t*ince güzelliğini görelim diye çok fotoğraf çek lütfen.



Moskova'ya gi*d*ince ....


2.ve küçük bir açıklama:

-arak/-erek are gerund forms (le gérondif de simultanéïté/2 actions at the same time) and since you know French: 
Yemek yiyerek konuşma. = No parle pas _en mangeant_.
Islık çalarak çalışıyor. = Il travaille _en sifflant_.
Toprağa bakarak cevap verdi.=  Il a répondu _en regardant_ le sol.


-a -a/-e -e make also gerund forms (but are le gérondif de manière/adverbial function).

Derslerinden sonra eve koşa koşa geldi. = Après le cours, il est rentré à la maison_ en courant_.

And in English, gerunds are mostly formed using 'by' : by + infinitif + ing
Whereas in French: en + le radical du verbe + ant

As you see, while translating, the structure of gerund forms for both cases (simultanéïté or adverbe) are the same in English and in French. 
(koşarak= en courant, (by) running / koşa koşa = en courant, by running)
But their function or what you mean is different: whether you want to use them for 2 actions at the same time or for showing the manner of the action.



> The problem that I have is that they can all to a certain extent be translated with either "when" or "while" and sometimes I do feel like I'm making the wrong choice.



The important is that you have learned and understood the main concept of each one very well,
gerisi:

Çok calış_arak _ve çok kullan_arak_ öğrenirsin. 


Bon şanslar, chiflad!


...


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## chifladoporlosidiomas

Gemmenita,

Gene de çok teşekkürler! Sensiz ne yapacağımı bilmiyorum ki! Bir tanesin! Açıklamaların bana çok iyi gelip daha iyi anlamama yardım ettiler. 

Her şeyi anlıyorum, sanırım. Hâlâ çok zordur benim için ama dediğin gibi "çok çalışarak ve çok kullanarak öğrenirsin".  Biraz daha çabalamam gerekir.


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## Rallino

> "Sevişe sevişe konuş" (Talk lovingly/sweetly)



Just going to comment on this one:

"Sevişmek" originally meant "to love one another", but today it means "to have sex". So your sentence means _Speak while having sex._

I would translate _Talk lovingly_ as _sevgiyle konuş_.


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## chifladoporlosidiomas

Rallino! Çok mersi! Bilmedim ki!  Bir şarkıdan!


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## mbu

chifladoporlosidiomas said:


> -arak: This describes an action that is happening at the same exact time as the main verb and on the same parallel. This one I feel like is interchangeable in the examples above, but I can think of a couple of time when I wouldn't the -a -a, but -arak yes.
> Yemek yiyerek konuşma. (Don't talk while eating; couldn't be 'yerken' because it wasn't interrupted, not yiyence because it didn't happen before, and yiye yiye sounds weird to me)
> Islık çalarak çalışıyor. (She works while whistling)
> Toprağa bakarak cevap verdi. (Looking at the ground, she answered).



Hi, i would like to talk about this part of your post. I hope i can make something more clear for you.
"Yemek yiyerek konuşma." should be "Yemek yerken konuşma!" as you say. I think "Yemek yiyerek konuşma." is a grammatically wrong sentence, if im not wrong. "-arak" generally converts a word to an adverb.
"She works while whistling" If i had to translate this sentence i would say "Islık çalarken_(çalar iken)_ çalışıyor." not "Islık çalarak çalışıyor."


"...Açıklamaların bana çok iyi gelip daha iyi anlamama yardım ettiler. " 

And note that we make verbs _plural _when the subject of a sentence is humans.
it must be "... yardım etti."

And sorry for my english ^^


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## Gemmenita

Hi,



mbu said:


> Yemek yerken konuşma!


Evet, doğru. (Ayrıca hoş geldin. )



mbu said:


> (...) I think "Yemek yiyerek konuşma." is a grammatically wrong sentence, if im not wrong. "-arak" generally converts a word to an adverb.




But for not leaving any question mark to chiflad, I should say that, it doesn't mean that the structure of 'yiyerek' is grammatically wrong. As gerund form of 'yemek', it _exists always.
_ 
For example: 
_(For complete texts, you can find both examples on the Internet,I extracted just main sentences regarding our subject.)_

yemek *yiyerek* zayıflama. 
or 
Tilte: Rüyada ölmüş kişiyle yemek yiyerek konuşmak:
Text:Eğer rüyada ölmüş biriyle konuşuluyorsa ve aynı zamanda yemek yeniyorsa,(...)

In this sentence, '...ve *aynı zamanda* yemek yeniyorsa' is another form of what is said in the title : ....yemek yiyerek (gerund of simultanéité)



Therefore,all depends on the usage and the aim of the speaker and above all, the concept that he has in mind:

1. If chiflad wants to say, as a moral lesson  : Don't talk *when* you are eating, therefore = Yemek yerken konuşma!
2. If chiflad wants to say, as two simultaneous actions : Don't talk *while* eat*ing*, (Don't talk at the same time that you are eating), therefore= Yemek yiyerek konuşma!

But I think since the verb 'konuşmak' is in _imperatif_ form here, so it is an advice or maybe an order, therefore the first one (moral lesson) is more _logical_ to say
 and the second one - not being the aim of the speaker - is less logical but not gramatically wrong !


And for whistling: Aslında, bana sorarsanız _Çalışırken ıslık çalıyor _daha uygun.

...


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