# Correct word for those of Spanish heritage



## cmjoell

I am learning spanish to help people in our area learn more about the Bible. I notice that the huge spanish speaking population here comes from all different backgrounds (i.e. S.America, Central Am., different Islands, etc.) What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage? Thank you.


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## Janis Joplin

In spanish, there are some ways.
_Hispanoamericano_, people who belongs to this social cultural group. Releted words are Hispanoamérica, etc. I believe it is the most adecuate and accurate.
_Latinoamericano_, people from Latin America; this may include portuguese-speaking and even french-speaking people. But in its short form, _latino_, I consider this to be wrong, because it refers to an historic cultural and linguistic background of european countries, like Spain, France, Italy and some more. I personally feel that this can also be despective in US (of course I'm not sure) so I would avoid it.
_Hispanoparlante_, also _hispanohablante_, I believe these to be considered neutral and correct ones.

But I'm not sure what to say in English...

Hispanic heritage, Hispanic people.


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## micafe

Good question. I've always wondered what the 'white' Americans mean when they say 'Hispanic' or 'Latino'. Are we 'Hispanic' because we speak Spanish? Or is it because we are of Spanish descent. How about a person whose parents are German but he was born in Latin America? is he Hispanic or even Latino? What about black people who were born in a Spanish speaking country? 

Are the Italians are the Romanians 'Latino'? 

They use it as if 'Hispanic' or 'Latino' were a race as opposed to 'White'. But I'm a white person who was born in Latin America.. so .. what am I??? 

What about a blond Latin American person (there are millions of them) who has a Spanish name and as far as he knows all his ancestors were Spanish (from Spain)... are they Hispanic, Latino or white? or all of the above?  

I've heard the expression: 'he looked Hispanic (or Latino)'. What does it mean? did he have dark skin? Arabs, Indians and several others do too. Did he have dark hair and eyes? I know many 'white' Europeans who do. 

So if someone is kind enough to explain to me what 'Hispanic' and 'Latino' refer to, I'd be very grateful.


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## Janis Joplin

Latino is sort of pejorative when someone who is not latino uses it, in some cases as when someone call an afroamerican person a nigger, without being an afroamerican. 

Latino is also incorrect because is related to Lacio and Rome.

Being hispanic means our parents and even our grandparents were born and raised in some country in Latin America and we were therefore raised within their culture, it doesn't matter if we live in the last corner of the world.

We, hispanics, come in different colors, we don't share an etnia but a culture.

I'm as white as a cucaracha in a bakery, and I'm also proudly hispanic.


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## Jobani

It is my opinion that the most politically-correct term is *Hispanic* to refer to those of us "whose ancestry hails either from the people of Spain, any of the various peoples of Spanish-speaking Latin America, or the original settlers of the traditionally Spanish-held Southwestern United States."

Quote borrowed from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispanic


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## loladamore

You might find *this thread* interesting, or *this one*. If (and only if) you have plenty of free time, *try this*.

Saludos.


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## Beiam

Latino means part of the old Roman empire, that mostly means the south part of Europe, Spain and Italy. Hispanic is a person who has spanish heritage, but not the ones who live in Spain, that may feel ofended if they're called "Hispanos" and not "Españoles" or "Spanish"


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## micafe

It's all very interesting but I still don't understand why in many government forms they ask 'are you Hispanic or Latino?' - What does it have to do with anything. And then they ask your race.  

There are people of ALL the races in the Latin American countries. Is it so important if the person who's filling out the form speaks Spanish or Finnish? What's the difference? They never ask 'are you European'?

The fact that someone invented the expression 'politically correct' is proof that there is a big problem in today's world. 

I have the feeling this message is going to be deleted. Well, it won't be the first one, probably not the last one either.


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## Beiam

If u were born or lived on south america, they may find you are Latin.


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## micafe

Beiam said:


> If u were born or lived on south america, they may find you are Latin.


 
I don't know what that's supposed to mean..


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## whattheflock

Like Big W (Bush) said in a speech: "Hispanically speaking...", it's a mess.
Strangely enough, the Hispanic community often insists in magazines, newspapers, TV shows and other media outlets to be refered to as "Latino".
Me, I don't care, same difference. I've always answered the Census questions for ethnicity as "Hispanic", and for race I always choose "Other (please explain)", and I write in the blank "HUMAN".


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## loladamore

whattheflock said:


> I've always answered the Census questions for ethnicity as "Hispanic", and for race I always choose "Other (please explain)", and I write in the blank "HUMAN".


 
I suppose that's the best antidote to having being classed as *aliens* by the INS!


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## estrella de mar

Janis Joplin said:


> I'm as white as a cucaracha in a bakery, and I'm also proudly hispanic.


 
Que expresion mas guay - me gusta. Siendo inglesa lo voy a usar! Al verme los espanoles siempre dicen "que blanquita eres!", como si fuera algo mal! En ingles decimos "soy blanco como una botella de leche"!


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## Orgullomoore

Wow, y'all are "trippin'" ALOT....I would just say 'hispanos'. I've never had anyone get offended over it.


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## Franra

Orgullomoore said:


> Wow, y'all are "trippin'" ALOT....I would just say 'hispanos'. I've never had anyone get offended over it.



Nothing to do with the subject, but could anybody explain me what does "trippin" mean in this context?? I´ve seen it a lot lately.....


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

You say trippin' when you're enjoying something or having a lot of fun.

 Como "tripear", "vacilar", en español.

And, by the way, interesting thread!  If I weren't so stuck on my own translations, you BET I'll be posting every 2 replies...

Just for the records, this side of the continent I'm at is called Latin America.  I don't know why in the world I should take offense if someone calls me Latina or Latin...


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## Franra

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> You say trippin' when you're enjoying something or having a lot of fun.
> 
> Como "tripear", "vacilar", en español.



Thank you very much!!! And sorry for interrupting you....


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

My pleasure!

And, Loladamore, I'll try to check those links you mentioned when I find the time.  Let's see what's up!

Cheers, everyone!


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## scotu

In my opinion,there is no "politically correct" way to lump people from different cultures and backgrounds into one false group with an easy label just because they speak the same language or have similar skin tones. It would be like calling everybody who speaks English "white people" or everybody who reads the bible, "christians." Lableling someone with a generic label indicates a lack of respect for a persons indivuality.


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## Violet Green

whattheflock said:


> Like Big W (Bush) said in a speech: "Hispanically speaking...", it's a mess.
> Strangely enough, the Hispanic community often insists in magazines, newspapers, TV shows and other media outlets to be refered to as "Latino".
> Me, I don't care, same difference. I've always answered the Census questions for ethnicity as "Hispanic",* and for race I always choose "Other (please explain)", and I write in the blank "HUMAN".*


 
This is a very good idea, whattheflock.
I didn't know that such questions existed in Census forms. I've filled in Census forms in France, and there were no such questions. They asked where you were born, but not what "race" or ethnic group you belonged to. I thought the idea of "race" had been demoded.


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## Janis Joplin

estrella de mar said:


> Que expresion mas guay - me gusta. Siendo inglesa lo voy a usar! Al verme los espanoles siempre dicen "que blanquita eres!", como si fuera algo mal! En ingles decimos "soy blanco como una botella de leche"!


 
Hace muchos años, un día que llegué tarde y sin maquillaje a trabajar y un compañero me dijo "Pareces cucaracha de panadería", ¡jaja! Nunca se me ha olvidado, desde entonces uso esa expresión.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> In my opinion,there is no "politically correct" way to lump people from different cultures and backgrounds into one false group with an easy label just because they speak the same language or have similar skin tones. It would be like calling everybody who speaks English "white people" or everybody who reads the bible, "christians." Lableling someone with a generic label indicates a lack of respect for a persons indivuality.


 
Well, that you definitely have in favor!  I totally agree with you, Scotu.  Unfortunately, it's really hard to figure a way to write that down on a job application, or something.

Surely, the world would be a better place if most people thought like you and Whattheflock do!


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## scotu

whattheflock said:


> Like Big W (Bush) said in a speech: "Hispanically speaking...", it's a mess.
> Strangely enough, the Hispanic community often insists in magazines, newspapers, TV shows and other media outlets to be refered to as "Latino".
> Me, I don't care, same difference. I've always answered the Census questions for ethnicity as "Hispanic", and for race I always choose "Other (please explain)", and I write in the blank "HUMAN".


 
I couldn't agree more. "*HUMAN*" is the only politically correct answer for race or ethnic background. (_eth*n*ic background_ is an euphemism for _race_ considered to be more politically correct) 

scotu


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> In my opinion,there is no "politically correct" way to lump people from different cultures and backgrounds into one false group with an easy label just because they speak the same language or have similar skin tones. It would be like calling everybody who speaks English "white people" or everybody who reads the bible, "christians." Lableling someone with a generic label indicates a lack of respect for a persons indivuality.


 

PS: Is your nickname taken from the Bible?  It sounds like the letter to Romans to me...  Chapter 13, maybe?


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## loladamore

scotu said:


> _ethic background_


 
I know it was a typo, but it sounds like something we could all do with!


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## María Madrid

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Just for the records, this side of the continent I'm at is called Latin America. I don't know why in the world I should take offense if someone calls me Latina or Latin...


 
I think this is just one of the original problems. I've never seen "that side of the world" called Latin America in any map or atlas. Latin America was "invented" to avoid "Hispanoamérica" or "Iberoamérica", those terms were supposed to have "imperialist" connotations. So in order not to be offensive with those sensitive souls who saw imperialist traces even in the most peculiar terms, another empire, which never set foot on those territories (the Roman empire), was chosen to create a quite artificial name... which has proved to be very successful, anyway. 

Latin countries are those that were part of the Roman Empire, as explained before. At school we learn about "proceso de latinización" in the territories invaded by Rome. I was once told by a Peruvian "para los españoles es diferente, pero nosotros, los latinos...."  So we're not latin!!! Good to be informed after so many years of thinking I was born and raised in a Latin country. Who is Latin then, an Italian or a Mexican? Both? Mexicans but not Italians? That's a really odd thing to say.

Sudamericanos is commonly used in Spain, a very inaccurate choice, as it doesn't include Central and North America. I know it's wrong but in Spain many people think Mexico is considered to be part of Central America. Using Sudamérica this way implies dividing the continent in just two halves, Central America is kind of considered to be in the Southern half. Yes, I know, that's NOT a good choice, I'm just saying it's common. 

América de habla hispana. Too long, does not include Brazil...

My favourite, Iberoamérica, refers those countries that were invaded by the countries in Iberia, that seems to be quite accurate, just as países latinos refers to those invaded by Rome, ... but it's not accepted on the other side of the Atlantic. 

I don't really have a valid alternative, since Hispanoamérica has been considered unacceptable, and it's too long for Americans to use (probably that's why they just say hispanic, it's a lot shorter). 

In any case I don't think latin (latino in Spanish) is a good choice, even if millions of people use it. Saludos,


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Waow...

Sounds like a topic for a cultural discussion, doesn't it?

Anyway, if someone gets to start one on that topic, count me in!


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## loladamore

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Sounds like a topic for a cultural discussion, doesn't it?


 
It already has been. Ad nauseam. The third thread I mentioned (*here it is again*) has 297 posts.


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## María Madrid

That's right way to say it. Ad nauseam!! Saludos,


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Well, it might be as Creed sings: "..we're slaves to be free"...

We talk and talk and talk (and talk!) about prejudices and tags and whatever similar stuff, and all we do by that is to intensify the feelings we hold over the matter.

Senseless, isn't it?  But here we are (myself included).

Aren't we HUMANS kind of funny, sometimes?


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## RoRo_en_el_foro

Well, I think nobody in Argentina will be offended if you call them Latino, or Hispano, or Sudamericano or whatever, but they will if you say so like if it was an insult.

Anyway, those terms only have sense in the movie distribution system or so, where people think in terms of "what language do they speak". We all are very different people, even inside our own countries (like in the rest of the world).


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## Mate

María Madrid said:


> Latin countries are those that were part of the Roman Empire, as explained before.


 
María, estoy básicamente de acuerdo con lo que dices en tu post, salvo lo citado arriba.

Sólo algunos países que formaran parte del Imperio Romano son latinos.


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## María Madrid

Mateamargo said:


> María, estoy básicamente de acuerdo con lo que dices en tu post, salvo lo citado arriba.
> 
> Sólo algunos países que formaran parte del Imperio Romano son latinos.


Sí, tienes razón, en realidad no fui muy precisa en mi explicación, dándolo por sobreentendido. Desde luego que me refiero sólo a aquéllos en los que se asimiló el idioma y cultura latinos (el famoso proceso de latinización del cole...). Gracias por la puntualización. Saludos,


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## tatis

whattheflock said:


> Like Big W (Bush) said in a speech: "Hispanically speaking...", it's a mess.
> Strangely enough, the Hispanic community often insists in magazines, newspapers, TV shows and other media outlets to be refered to as "Latino".
> Me, I don't care, same difference. I've always answered the Census questions for ethnicity as "Hispanic", and for race I always choose "Other (please explain)", and I write in the blank "HUMAN".


 
Totally agree with you, I do the same.  And also, I welcome "latino" and "hispanic".  I am both, and proud of it.


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## scotu

tatis said:


> Totally agree with you, I do the same. And also, I welcome "latino" and "hispanic". I am both, and proud of it.


 
I think any individual has a perfect right to apply any label he likes to himself and be proud to be identified with that group. I am a Mexican and an American but I am neither Latino nor Hispanic nor "Mexican/American". To label me with any of those terms would not only be wrong, it would be ridiculous.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

RoRo_en_el_foro said:


> Well, I think nobody in Argentina will be offended if you call them Latino, or Hispano, or Sudamericano or whatever, but they will if you say so like if it was an insult.
> 
> Anyway, those terms only have sense in the movie distribution system or so, where people think in terms of "what language do they speak". We all are very different people, even inside our own countries (like in the rest of the world).


 
I think it's the same here. In fact, aquí ocurre un fenómeno muy interesante. Cuando alguien es muy "avispado", "pilas", o "vivaracho" (como llamamos aquí a la gente despierta y expresiva), por lo general se expresan diciendo cosas como: "¿Y qué esperabas? ¡Soy latino/a!"

So, seems like down here, we're kind of proud of all the positive things involved in our culture. I believe the most important thing is to remember we live in a world filled with all "sort" of people (if the word fits), and if we respect and enjoy our differences, things go on rather smoothly and pleasantly.

Take, for example, international 'cuisine'. Would the world be the same if every culture shared the same style of cooking? How boring!

So, my point is that, as in meals, diversity is what makes life tasty.

Anyway, it's just a point of view (quite subjetive, indeed)...


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## Mate

scotu said:


> I think any individual has a perfect right to apply any label he likes to himself and be proud to be identified with that group. I am a Mexican and an American but I am neither Latino nor Hispanic nor "Mexican/American". To label me with any of those terms would not only be wrong, it would be ridiculous.


Oh my god! Just when I was thinking about how sad it is to be the only extraterrestrial creature in this world I meet a fellow alien.


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## scotu

Mateamargo said:


> Oh my god! Just when I was thinking about how sad it is to be the only extraterrestrial creature in this world I meet a fellow alien.


 

_I trust you don't mean alien in the sense of "illegal alien" which seems to be the currently popular despective label that many use for Mexicans in the US  _


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## Mate

scotu said:


> _I trust you don't mean alien in the sense of "illegal alien" which seems to be the currently popular dispective label that many use for Mexicans in the US  _


 
Scotu, a no preocuparse que estamos a salvo. La ley del hombre no rige sobre los alienígenas. es demasiado...¿burda?


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## María Madrid

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> So, seems like down here, we're kind of proud of all the positive things involved in our culture.


La cuestión es que para referiros a "vuestra" cultura usáis como propio un término que se acuñó para referirse a otra cultura, mediterránea, que sigue vivita y coleando y de la que sois parte de manera menos directa, por así decirlo. Ser latino implica mediterráneo. Aunque en Estados Unidos no se les haya ocurrido pensar en eso a la hora de crear términos políticamente correctos.

Por supuesto, son evidentes los vínculos de vuestra cultura con la latina (Roma), pero posturas como ésta, en la que se asume que la cultura latina es la de la América no colonizada por anglosajones (aún más largo) es la que da lugar a situaciones tan ridículas como la que yo exponía arriba, que un peruano me diga a mí que el latino es él y no yo. Saludos,


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## Junk

scotu said:


> _I trust you don't mean alien in the sense of "illegal alien" which seems to be the currently popular dispective label that many use for Mexicans in the US  _


What is the problem with this term (when it is accurately applied)? An alien is, according to m-w.com:

*1* *:* a person of another family, race, or nation
*2* *:* a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country; _broadly_ *:* a foreign-born citizen

Such a person in the country illegally would logically be an illegal alien, right? I don't understand why the term is offensive.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

That's precisely what I mean!  Why to get mad or take offense so quickly?  (Although I'm sure scotu didn't _*really*_ take offense  )


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## Junk

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> That's precisely what I mean! Why to get mad or take offense so quickly? (Although I'm sure scotu didn't _*really*_ take offense  )


Right. I'm sure everyone here agrees that whatever label people identify them with does not define them as a person. I am so much more than "white" or "American" or "of half English half German descent", and I frankly don't care what you choose to label me as. You could call me chinese for all I care. Why do people get offended by these terms?


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Junk said:


> Right. I'm sure everyone here agrees that whatever label people identify them with does not define them as a person. I am so much more than "white" or "American" or "of half English half German descent", and I frankly don't care what you choose to label me as. You could call me chinese for all I care. Why do people get offended by these terms?


 
Thanks a lot!  It's so nice to know when our message is coming out straight...  

Guys, it's been a nice forum, but it's time for me to get some work done (lunch time is over  )

So, enjoy the talk and  keep on expressing yourselves (that's always a good idea, as long as it's done respectfully)

Have a fantastic day, everyone.

Cheers...


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## tatis

scotu said:


> I think any individual has a perfect right to apply any label he likes to himself and be proud to be identified with that group. I am a Mexican and an American but I am neither Latino nor Hispanic nor "Mexican/American". To label me with any of those terms would not only be wrong, it would be ridiculous.


 

As ridiculous as it may seem to you, you DO belong to one or more "labels" (as you call them), it is not a matter of choice.   You do have the right to be confused or to want to deny what you are, while others might not have a problem at all.


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## scotu

Mateamargo said:


> Scotu, a no preocuparse que estamos a salvo. La ley del hombre no rige sobre los alienígenas. es demasiado...¿burda?


*Claro es verdad*!   Does _burda = verdad?  _My dictionary gives "course or rough for_ burda _
_ Does _alienígenas = alien species?


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> *Claro es verdad*! Does _burda = verdad? _My dictionary gives "course or rough for_ burda _
> _Does _alienígenas = alien species?


 

If you're serious about that, I think he meant human law just can't reach you guys because you (aliens) are far beyond it.

And yes, alienígenas equals to alien species, or extraterrestrial species...

Although, in Venezuela, we use "burda" to exagerate or emphasize something, as "a whole lot", or "so very much", e.g. "me gusta burda" => "I like him/her a whole lot".  But that's just here, I think...


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## Mirlo

I just though that the word "latino" came from "latinoamericano"="latin american" =*Latin America
*Function: _geographical name_
*1* Spanish America & Brazil
*2* all of the Americas S of the United States 
- *Latin-American *_adjective_ 
- *Latin American *_noun_ 
and this mean:   *latino,-a* 
I_adjetivo_ Latin
*América Latina,* Latin America
so what's the big deal? granted I don't like the "labeling" part but,mmmmm I don't know!
saludos,


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## scotu

tatis said:


> As ridiculous as it may seem to you, you DO belong to one or more "labels" (as you call them), it is not a matter of choice. You do have the right to be confused or to want to deny what you are, while others might not have a problem at all.


 
I completely disagree, *It is a matter of choice.* I am the only one who has the right to choose my labels. You may apply any lable you wish to me, that dosen't necessarily mean your label is correct or even applicable. 

When you do apply a label to someone it is your loss. Because you have choosen to define that person in *your terms *you will never get to know that person in his own terms.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> I completely disagree, *It is a matter of choice.* I am the only one who has the right to choose my labels. You may apply any lable you wish to me, that dosen't necessarily mean your label is correct or even applicable.
> 
> When you do apply a label to someone it is your loss, because you have choosen ( ) to define that person in *your terms.* That's a pity because you will never get to know that person in his terms.


 
Maybe.  But, as you said, that would be their loss, their business.  They might choose whatever they want.

We still have our duty, which is keeping a mind of our own and trying our best to let our *actions* define us, instead of the so-often-used tags or labels.

Stereotypes exist, that's a fact.  However, it's up to each one of us to decide whether we stick to those stereotypes, or decide to do something different.  Whatever we do, let's allow our *deeds* speak on our behalf.

Or, so I think...  What do you guys say?


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## tatis

scotu said:


> I completely disagree, *It is a matter of choice.* I am the only one who has the right to choose my labels. You may apply any lable you wish to me, that dosen't necessarily mean your label is correct or even applicable.
> 
> When you do apply a label to someone it is your loss. Because you have choosen to define that person in *your terms *you will never get to know that person in his own terms.


 

It looks to me like you've had enough bad experiences to feel so strongly about this.  Maybe the definitions that you draw into the labels that you choose are...erratic or maybe they stereotype the individual?


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## whattheflock

Well, going back to the opening salvo of this cannonade, one label that definitely _*does not*_ apply to all of us latinohispanicsouthcentralSpanishspeakingconqueredbyIbericcountriesnevermindtheRomans is the label "_*placid*_".


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

whattheflock said:


> Well, going back to the opening salvo of this cannonade, one label that definitely _*does not*_ apply to all of us latinohispanicsouthcentralSpanishspeakingconqueredbyIbericcountriesnevermindtheRomans is the label "_*placid*_".


 
*LOL!*​ 
That's all I can add up to it!


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## micafe

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Just for the records, this side of the continent I'm at is called Latin America. I don't know why in the world I should take offense if someone calls me Latina or Latin...


 
I can tell you don't live in the US   . 

I dont mind saying I'm Latin American, I always do. As a matter of fact, I say 'I'm from South America'. (Believe it or not, many people don't know what Colombia is, they even ask me if I'm from '*Columbia*, South Carolina )

But, if you're asked several times, for no reason whatsoever, if you're Hispanic or Latino you end up getting very upset. What's the difference, from the Government's point of view, between being born in Latin America or in Europe? We are all human beings, aren't we. 

In my case, I'm a white person of Spanish and Italian descent who was born in Colombia and is an American citizen. (Actually, I have dual citizenship). Does it make me different from someone who came from Germany and became an American citizen also??? That is the question. 

They never ask if you are 'European' on those forms. That's my point. They are labeling the Latin American people, using words that can be confusing and sometimes used in a derogatory way. 

I'm very proud to be Latin American. Of course I am.. it's a GREAT CONTINENT  with GREAT PEOPLE!!! 

Saludos



scotu said:


> In my opinion,there is no "politically correct" way to lump people from different cultures and backgrounds into one false group with an easy label just because they speak the same language or have similar skin tones. It would be like calling everybody who speaks English "white people" or everybody who reads the bible, "christians." Lableling someone with a generic label indicates a lack of respect for a persons indivuality.


 
I couldn't agree more.


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## scotu

tatis said:


> It looks to me like you've had enough bad experiences to feel so strongly about this. Maybe the definitions that you draw into the labels that you choose are...erratic or maybe they stereotype the individual?


 
Certainly labels stereotype the individual. even when an individual chooses a label for himself, he usually has to start explaining the ways in which he really dosen't fit that particular stereotype. 

example: I'm a catholic (label) but I never go to mass and I eat meat on Fridays (I don't fit the "catholic" stereotype)... Now you walk away and in your mind I am stereotyped as a "lapsed catholic". But does this label tell you what my thoughts on religion are? or do you know what they are because you know what a "lapsed catholic" is.


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## sneaksleep

Just to throw another wrench in the works, micafe's comment about being asked "for no reason whatsoever" about one's origin (or label, or whatever) made me think about something that happens quite often to my husband:

He's from India (and English is his first language), but here in the US people will often speak to him in Spanish, without even asking where he's from or if he speaks English. Most of the time we just laugh about the irony that he doesn't speak a word of Spanish, while I (the irish-scottish-polish-czech-born-in-the-usa girl) speak it like I'm Chilean. 

However, no matter how much we laugh, it doesn't change the fact that someone took one look at his skin and decided "not only does this guy look like he speaks Spanish, but maybe he can't speak English." Of course, it is often native Spanish speakers who do this, so maybe they are really thinking that they'll speak Spanish to him in solidarity (or whatever), but they have still made an incorrect assumption based on his appearance.


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## micafe

sneaksleep said:


> it doesn't change the fact that someone took one look at his skin and decided "not only does this guy look like he speaks Spanish, but maybe he can't speak English."
> 
> ... but they have still made an incorrect assumption based on his appearance.


 
Very interesting. For no reason at all, because of his skin color or whatever, he's been 'labeled' as Latino.. You are dark, you HAVE to be Latino, right? It's so absurd. 

Maybe we 'Latins' or whatever they want to call us, are the ones that started the whole thing. Or if we didn't start it, we keep playing their game.

Let me tell you a similar anecdote but different situation. 

As I said, I was born in Colombia and I'm what you'd call 'caucasian'. 

Anyway, I was in Mexico once and, of course, I spoke Spanish to all the people in the hotels and shops. Well.. they would answer to me in English. 

I was a little annoyed and I asked a guy why he was speaking English to me if I had already told him I came from a Spanish speaking country. He said "I don't believe you. I think you are from Chicago"  . 

I couldn't believe my ears and thought trying to explain it to him was a waste of time, so I left it at that.


----------



## whattheflock

I suppose sneaksleep's experience works both (?) ways (or many-ways, or whatevertheflock):
Because I have red skin and a marked epicanthic fold of the eyes, people from the Phillipines, Guam, Thailand, Pakistan and other asian countries often try to speak to me in their languages.
To which I often respond with a lopsided grin and a "me no habla".


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## scotu

Junk said:


> What is the problem with this term (when it is accurately applied)? An alien is, according to m-w.com:
> 
> *1* *:* a person of another family, race, or nation
> *2* *:* a foreign-born resident who has not been naturalized and is still a subject or citizen of a foreign country; _broadly_ *:* a foreign-born citizen
> 
> Such a person in the country illegally would logically be an illegal alien, right? I don't understand why the term is offensive.


 
It's offensive when it is a stereotype applied to anyone who looks like a Mexican regardless of their status including people whose family has been living in western states before they were states. 

The name used to be "undocumented workers" until politicians realized that "undocumented workers" didn't sound dangereous enough so in order to appear like they were fighting a real threat they started calling "undocumented workers" "illegal aliens"


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## Mate

A mi me pasa lo mismo que a micafe cuando voy a México (a mi me pasa lo mismo que a usted). 

Pero lo que me llama poderosamente la atención es que cuando en los EEUU trato de hablar en castellano con un/a nosecomollamarlo/ademaneraquesuenepolíticamentecorrecto, porque lo oigo hablando en mi idioma con alguna otra persona, cambia en el acto y me contesta en inglés. 

No sólo eso sino que me mira con cara de desconfianza, como temiendo que yo sea un agente secreto del departamento de migraciones, a cargo de descubrir a los "illegal aliens" para luego deportarlos. 

Sounds familiar?


----------



## tatis

However, no matter how much we laugh, it doesn't change the fact that someone took one look at his skin and decided "not only does this guy look like he speaks Spanish, but maybe he can't speak English." Of course, it is often native Spanish speakers who do this, so maybe they are really thinking that they'll speak Spanish to him in solidarity (or whatever), but they have still made an incorrect assumption based on his appearance.[/quote]


Well, I must tell you that you are right: it is an incorrect assumption (a label in scotu's terms) based on his appearance.  Does that upset him?  

I am mexican, and I can't tell you how many times I have been asked if I am from the Middle East, or from India.  I feel flattered, as incorrect as their assumption is,  I have never found it offensive or bothersome, and it is an honor for me to say: "No sir, I am mexican" and if that person were to reply "Aaahhh! Latino?" I would say: Yes, you are right, what goes through his/mind, it is not a reason for me to deny my ethnicity.

Well, I am tired, I hope this make sense.

Bye


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## scotu

> I am mexican, and I can't tell you how many times I have been asked if I am from the Middle East, or from India. I feel flattered, as incorrect as their assumption is, I have never found it offensive or bothersome, and it is an honor for me to say: "No sir, I am mexican" and if that person were to reply "Aaahhh! Latino?" I would say: Yes, you are right, what goes through his/mind, it is not a reason for me to deny my ethnicity


 
I am a Mexican citizen. That's a fact, not a label. All of my grandparents were Scots. That's the fact of my ethnicity. I was also born and raised an American. 
Am I Latino?, I don't think so! Am I hispanic? No not that either. I'm not in denial and I am sure not offended by anything that anyone might call me. In fact I'd be compliment if someone mistakenly called me a Latino. I am just trying to make the point that stereotypes rarely fit any given stereotyped individual.


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## jess diane

so then do the terms relate to the nationality of an individual or their heritage?  i always thought it was related to the nationality, but if people look at one another on the street and say "hey, you look latino/hispanic/latin" what does that mean, exactly?  

further, if it is for the darker complexion, i don´t understand why the term relates to europe, when the native american or indigenous heritage is what gives the skin more color.


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## scotu

The original post in this thread asked the question:


> What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage?


I believe that any attempt to throw Mexicans, Spaniards, Peruvians, and Puerto Ricans in the same bucket is not correct, politically or otherwise.


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## jess diane

well...they lump many groups of people together in odd categories.  think about the term "caucasian"...although that isn't a description of culture like what is associated with the terms being discussed.  but nonetheless both are political groups.  and both are ridiculously broad.  

i think we're almost past worrying about them all the time, though.  

como opinan uds?


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## micafe

Mateamargo said:


> Sounds familiar?


 
It certainly does...


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## lforestier

I believe a US citizen descended from Alngo-Saxons is closer related to a South African than an Argentinian is to a Dominican. So that artificial Ethnic questions on US forms is useless and discriminating (Why should I, being of a Spanish-speaking family, answer the ethnic question while the son of an Irish or German doesn't? ) I don't consider myself white even though I can trace my genealogy all the way to Mallorca and France but I have many blond and blue-eyed Puerto Rican friends that feel odd that they aren't supposed to check off white in the race box because of the Hispanic box next to it. I always mark other and don't bother to explain. If somebody is really interested, have them map my DNA.


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## solinvictus

Hello!
I would say that those of us who don't have a clue about US ethnic issues wouldn't feel concerned by expressions such as Hispanic or Latino.
Say Latinoamericano and everybody will gladly fit in, except Spaniards, because they're european and not american obviously.

I like your expression Spanish Heritage, but there is no equivalent to Anglosaxon for us.

Latin American can cover portuguese or french speaking folks but that is not an issue. It has all to do with our common _late roman-empire centralized system & roman catholic_ culture as opposed to _anglo-saxon tribalist-autonomous & protestant culture_.


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## scotu

solinvictus said:


> Hello!
> I would say that those of us who don't have a clue about US ethnic issues wouldn't feel concerned by expressions such as Hispanic or Latino.
> Say Latinoamericano and everybody will gladly fit in, except Spaniards, because they're european and not american obviously.
> 
> I like your expression Spanish Heritage, but there is no equivalent to Anglosaxon for us.


 
Ahh.. you have just explained something I have missed....For people who's heritage puts them in the majority, being classed as a ___________(member of that majority group) is not an issue....When you are not part of the majority and you are classed as a ___________(member of a group outside of the majority) that classication suddenly has the feeling of being discriminatory. It's "_Them_" saying; "You are not one of us."


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## micafe

scotu said:


> Ahh.. you have just explained something I have missed....For people who's heritage puts them in the majority, being classed as a ___________(member of that majority group) is not an issue....When you are not part of the majority and you are classed as a ___________(member of a group outside of the majority) that classication suddenly has the feeling of being discriminatory. It's "_Them_" saying; "You are not one of us."


 
Yes, yes, yes... I agree completely..


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## RoRo_en_el_foro

¿Por qué tienen el ítem de raza en sus formularios? Eso debería ser por lo menos inconstitucional. Nunca vi algo así en ningún otro lado, ¿es que nadie se queja? No lo entiendo.


----------



## scotu

RoRo_en_el_foro said:


> ¿Por qué tienen el ítem de raza en sus formularios? Eso debería ser por lo menos inconstitucional. Nunca vi algo así en ningún otro lado, ¿es que nadie se queja? No lo entiendo.


 
Buena pregunta! Sería una buena idea para un nuevo hilo cultural.


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## micafe

RoRo_en_el_foro said:


> ¿Por qué tienen el ítem de raza en sus formularios? Eso debería ser por lo menos inconstitucional. Nunca vi algo así en ningún otro lado, ¿es que nadie se queja? No lo entiendo.


 
Digo lo mismo.. buena pregunta. Muchos se quejan pero no hacen nada y el motivo es, digo yo, que se mueren del terror de que el INS los deporte, así estén legalmente en el país. 

A propósito, a manera de información, le seguimos diciendo INS pero el nombre ha cambiado a USCIS.


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## María Madrid

Mirlo said:


> I just though that the word "latino" came from "latinoamericano"="latin american" =*Latin America*
> Function: _geographical name_
> *1* Spanish America & Brazil
> *2* all of the Americas S of the United States
> - *Latin-American *_adjective_
> - *Latin American *_noun_
> and this mean: *latino,-a*
> I_adjetivo_ Latin
> *América Latina,* Latin America
> so what's the big deal? granted I don't like the "labeling" part but,mmmmm I don't know!
> saludos,


 
This is what RAE says about latino, not quite the same, actually. Saludos, 

*latino**, na**.*(Del lat. _Latīnus_).*1.* adj. Natural del Lacio. http://forum.wordreference.com/U. t. c. s.http://forum.wordreference.com/*2.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a los pueblos del Lacio, o a las ciudades con derecho *latino.**3.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua *latina.**4.* adj. Propio de ella.*5.* adj. Se dice de la Iglesia de Occidente, para diferenciarla de la griega. _Los padres de la Iglesia latina._*6.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a ella. _Los ritos latinos._*7.* adj. Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*8.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a esos mismos pueblos. _Los emperadores latinos de Constantinopla._ _Los países latinos de América._*9.* adj._ Mar._ Dicho de una embarcación o de un aparejo: De vela triangular.*10.* adj. desus. Que sabe latín. http://forum.wordreference.com/Era u. t. c. s.

_Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados_http://forum.wordreference.com/


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## Sallyb36

What's wrong with *Spaniards?*


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## María Madrid

scotu said:


> I am a Mexican citizen. That's a fact, not a label. All of my grandparents were Scots. That's the fact of my ethnicity. I was also born and raised an American.
> Am I Latino?, I don't think so! Am I hispanic? No not that either. I'm not in denial and I am sure not offended by anything that anyone might call me. In fact I'd be compliment if someone mistakenly called me a Latino. I am just trying to make the point that stereotypes rarely fit any given stereotyped individual.


That's a very good example: Latino has to do with cultural background, as Solinvictus has explained on this very same page, and also mentioned in previous posts of this thread. 

US has been using that term to define ethnicit, so it's just natural it won't work. What I find somewhat surprising is that natives from those countries, who certainly know better, also assume that artificial "labelling". Saludos,


----------



## solinvictus

Spaniard is to be a national of Spain, as a country.
It would be like calling English all anglos-saxons, from the USA to Australia.
As in the New World(s) countries, there are many descendents of either native peoples, or immigrants from other cultural backgrounds to the actual melting pot of Spanish Heritage, it seems reductive to me.
I can't think of an equivalent to the consecrated _anglo-saxon_. It just rules out the vikings.
Godo-suevo-alano-moro-judi-latino?  hehe.


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## María Madrid

solinvictus said:


> Godo-suevo-alano-moro-judi-latino? hehe.


 
No te olvides de los celtas! si no, se nos quedan fuera los descendientes de gallegos y asturianos. Saludos,


----------



## Mirlo

María Madrid said:


> This is what RAE says about latino, not quite the same, actually. Saludos,
> 
> *latino**, na**.*(Del lat. _Latīnus_).*1.* adj. Natural del Lacio. U. t. c. s.*2.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a los pueblos del Lacio, o a las ciudades con derecho *latino.**3.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua *latina.**4.* adj. Propio de ella.*5.* adj. Se dice de la Iglesia de Occidente, para diferenciarla de la griega. _Los padres de la Iglesia latina._*6.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a ella. _Los ritos latinos._*7.* adj. Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*8.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a esos mismos pueblos. _Los emperadores latinos de Constantinopla._ _Los países latinos de América._*9.* adj._ Mar._ Dicho de una embarcación o de un aparejo: De vela triangular.*10.* adj. desus. Que sabe latín. Era u. t. c. s.
> 
> _Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados_


_ Los países latinos de América_
_por lo que veo tiene muchas definiciones y esta incluye los paises latino Americanos._


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## María Madrid

Claro Mirlo, pero eso no significa que sea la única y principal acepción, ni que se refiera a una diferencia racial, sino cultural. Y geográficamente, se refería desde el prinicipio a los naturales del Lazio, por eso es absurdo decir que un guatemalteco es latino y un italiano no. Saludos,


----------



## serg79

solinvictus said:


> Spaniard is to be a national of Spain, as a country.
> It would be like calling English all anglos-saxons, from the USA to Australia.


O quizás sería como llamar "anglosajón" a cualquier estadounidense, australiano, etc (lo cual ya pasa en el español  ).


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## solinvictus

María Madrid said:


> No te olvides de los celtas! si no, se nos quedan fuera los descendientes de gallegos y asturianos. Saludos,


 
Sentido del humor, ay, tanto te añoramos a veces!

Se dice en Portugal que sibilar la S, con lo que se refieren a pronunciarla como una especie de jota francesa (como en _Joseph_) y no tanto a la manera española (como en _Charles_)*, seria propio de los descendientes de los celtas, de las regiones menos romanizadas. Que piensan/pensáis en España al respecto?

* Pongo ejemplos en francés pues no domino el uso de _ceseo_, _seseo_. Como depende del que pronuncia las palabras esas nunca sé a que sonido se refieren  

Me dan ganas de firmar Maria Lisboa


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## Mirlo

María Madrid said:


> Claro Mirlo, pero eso no significa que sea la única y principal acepción, ni que se refiera a una diferencia racial, sino cultural. Y geográficamente, se refería desde el prinicipio a los naturales del Lazio, por eso es absurdo decir que un guatemalteco es latino y un italiano no. Saludos,


 
 Si, comprendo todo esto, la cosa es que nos guste o no (porque como ya dije antes no me gusta el "labeling") ya está en los papeles y nada más decía que la parte de que nos llamaran "latinos" no me ofendía, aunque yo como muchos otros me considero solo un "ser humano" 
Saludos,


----------



## María Madrid

solinvictus said:


> Sentido del humor, ay, tanto te añoramos a veces!
> 
> Se dice en Portugal que sibilar la S, con lo que se refieren a pronunciarla como una especie de jota francesa (como en _Joseph_) y no tanto a la manera española (como en _Charles_)*, seria propio de los descendientes de los celtas, de las regiones menos romanizadas. Que piensan/pensáis en España al respecto?
> 
> * Pongo ejemplos en francés pues no domino el uso de _ceseo_, _seseo_. Como depende del que pronuncia las palabras esas nunca sé a que sonido se refieren
> 
> Me dan ganas de firmar Maria Lisboa


 
Me he perdido, ¿que la S se pronuncia como ch? ¿Te refieres quizá al sonido como en sh? Saludos,


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## amacors

Unlike others who have posted replies, I do not see the word Hispanic or Latino as pejorative.  Whether we like it or not, with the way things are, we have to have some kind of terminology to broadly categorize those from South America, Central America, and the Caribbean.  I would say that it is safer to say *Latin American*, as all of the countries in these regions are characterized as Latin America.  It also avoids the confusion associated with the word Latino, which can also include italians.  And Latin American transcends race, unlike Hispanic, which can become very much associated with being of Spanish heritage.  

Buena Suerte.​


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## scotu

solinvictus said:


> Spaniard is to be a national of Spain, as a country.
> It would be like calling English all anglos-saxons, from the USA to Australia.
> quote]
> 
> Many call us *WASP*s (*W*hite *A*nglo *S*axon *P*rotestant). WASPs do not have ethnicity; Ethnicity is for all of the other groups that suffer the misfortune of not being WASPs  . In WASP culture you are either a wasp or an ethnic. For example; A wasp can say "I am an American" but an ethnic feels compelled to say "I'm a(n) _hyphen_*-*American". (Afro-American, Italian-American, Hispanic-American, etc.)


----------



## solinvictus

María Madrid said:


> Me he perdido, ¿que la S se pronuncia como ch? ¿Te refieres quizá al sonido como en sh? Saludos,


 
Debe ser eso!

PS Más sobre lo anterior. No hay, que yo sepa , correspondencia a este sonido en España, lo más parecido seria el sh, como en Shelley, pero es más un shj... realmente es come el J francés que silbara!
dé*j*eûner, *J*acques + silbido,  Jshacques?
Si has estado en Viseu, (donde acabó el infeliz D.Rodrigo) pues ahí se supone que pronuncian Vi*j*eu.
Que enredo!


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## María Madrid

En gallego sí sé hay un sonido similar al sh en inglés. Xunta, Xuan (Juan). En catalán creo que también.... ¿o no? Saludos,


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Am I the only one who thinks we lost the original thread that "cmjoell" started?


----------



## María Madrid

Bueno, seguimos hablando de idiomas latinos... en todo caso que un moderador nos corte estos últimos mensajes y nos lo pasen a otro hilo. Saludos,


----------



## serg79

scotu said:


> Many call us *WASP*s (*W*hite *A*nglo *S*axon *P*rotestant). WASPs do not have ethnicity; Ethnicity is for all of the other groups that suffer the misfortune of not being WASPs  . In WASP culture you are either a wasp or an ethnic. For example; A wasp can say "I am an American" but an ethnic feels compelled to say "I'm a(n) _hyphen_*-*American". (Afro-American, Italian-American, Hispanic-American, etc.)


But WASP is probably as inaccurate as Hispanic. How many White Anglo-Saxon (i.e. origins specifically from England) Protestants are there in the USA? Do you have to be able to trace all your family back to the original English settlers to be classed as such? What if you are not 100% Anglo-Saxon? (which I doubt that even a very small percentage of Americans are... in fact I doubt that such a thing exists, even in England)....

Okay, going a bit off-topic, but I just wanted to add that.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

cmjoell said:


> I am learning spanish to help people in our area learn more about the Bible. I notice that the huge spanish speaking population here comes from all different backgrounds (i.e. S.America, Central Am., different Islands, etc.) What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage? Thank you.


 
Lo siento, no era mi intención cortarle la inspiración a nadie! 

Es sólo que "cmjoell" inició con una pregunta, la cual creo aún no se le ha respondido de la manera que necesita.

Qué le podemos decir?  How could a North American person refer to those individuals without offending/confusing/playing the fool/starting a polemic conversation about the topic?

What do you say, guys?


----------



## sneaksleep

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Am I the only one who thinks we lost the original thread that "cmjoell" started?



Well, I sort of agree that the thread has gotten sidetracked. On the other hand, people clearly have many strong (and varied) feelings on what "the politically correct term" is, and who it should be applied to. Alas, there is no simple answer for cmjoell's question. Looks like no matter what term you use, you're going to offend someone!


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## María Madrid

sneaksleep said:


> people clearly have many strong (and varied) feelings on what "the politically correct term" is, and who it should be applied to. Alas, there is no simple answer for cmjoell's question.


Exactly, I think this thread is not about giving an exact answer (as most terms are inaccurate/incomplete/wrong), but providing some information on different points of view so that Cmjoell chooses what he/she prefers or think most appropritate. The "politically correct terms" was kind of invented, basically ignoring the cultural and ethnical reality... so what can you expect? General consensus? NO WAY! Saludos,


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

That's a good point.

Whenever we talk about such "prickly" topic, it's perhaps unavoidable to come up with a few thorns...

Let's keep on with the talk, then


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## solinvictus

serg79 said:


> O quizás sería como llamar "anglosajón" a cualquier estadounidense, australiano, etc (lo cual ya pasa en el español  ).


 
 How should I've said this in english?


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Alright! It's 100 posts now, and around 900 views...

It seems like such participation over one simple sentence is a nice proof of this simple fact: diversity IS what makes life tasty!    All of us have something to say, from an inner or outer point of view.

Isn't that something to celebrate, rather than fight over?


----------



## sonal.bahl

As someone who comes from a land far far away, and having lived here for close to 2 years, I'd like to simplify the way people from this beautiful land are addressed:

*Latin American* (if I include Mexico, Puerto Rico and other Central American countries)
*South Americans* for everyone else in general. 

I agree with the view about Hispanic: the reality is that after all the wars there are plenty of people of German, Italian, French, Hungarian and East European descent, and to refer to them as 'Hispanic' just doesn't make sense.

Of course, stereotypes continue to exist as people, media, etc still use the words 'Hispanic', Latino, etc.

It would be so cool when these race related questions are eliminated from the face of the earth !!


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

sonal.bahl said:


> As someone who comes from a land far far away, and having lived here for close to 2 years, I'd like to simplify the way people from this beautiful land are addressed:
> 
> *Latin American* (if I include Mexico, Puerto Rico and other Central American countries)
> *South Americans* for everyone else in general.
> 
> I agree with the view about Hispanic: the reality is that after all the wars there are plenty of people of German, Italian, French, Hungarian and East European descent, and to refer to them as 'Hispanic' just doesn't make sense.
> 
> Of course, stereotypes continue to exist as people, media, etc still use the words 'Hispanic', Latino, etc.
> 
> It would be so cool when these race related questions are eliminated from the face of the earth !!


 
I couldn't agree more!


----------



## Santiago Jorge

. . . . nor I!


----------



## scotu

sonal.bahl said:


> It would be so cool when these race related questions are eliminated from the face of the earth !!


 
Why not just use the word "*human*" to describe your cultural, ethnic, racial heritage. If everybody did that these race related questions would be eliminated from the face of the earth.


----------



## Julkio

Then we will lose half of what we are. If you are named like latinamerican or whatever is because you share your roots with other people,and that is awesome. The problem begin when stupid people is frigtened of that difference, but the differences shouldn't be scary, they are good. I can't imagine a more boring world than that one without differences.


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## RoRo_en_el_foro

Julkio, you are missing the point.
¿Para qué el que inició este hilo iba a llamar "hispanos" a un grupo de personas a las que solamente va a enseñar la biblia? Como dije en mi post anterior: marcar esa diferencia solamente tiene sentido en el ambiente de la distribución de películas... Cualquier diferencia que se marque "innecesariamente" puede ser considerada discriminación, como el ítem de "raza" en los formularios, por ejemplo. No es que no sea informativo el ítem de raza, la pregunta es, ¿para qué quiere el dueño del formulario saber eso?


----------



## María Madrid

RoRo_en_el_foro said:


> No es que no sea informativo el ítem de raza, la pregunta es, ¿para qué quiere el dueño del formulario saber eso?





scotu said:


> these race related questions would be eliminated from the face of the earth.


 
Me permito recordar que, a pesar por lo que se dice en algunos mensajes de este hilo, que parecen asumir que esa obligación de indicar la raza es extendidísima, hay muchos países en los que es impensable tener que cumplimentar una casilla así. El planeta es bastante más grande y con usos bastante más diferentes de lo que deben de pensar algunos. Saludos,


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

RoRo_en_el_foro said:


> Julkio, you are missing the point.
> ¿Para qué el que inició este hilo iba a llamar "hispanos" a un grupo de personas a las que solamente va a enseñar la biblia? Como dije en mi post anterior: marcar esa diferencia solamente tiene sentido en el ambiente de la distribución de películas... Cualquier diferencia que se marque "innecesariamente" puede ser considerada discriminación, como el ítem de "raza" en los formularios, por ejemplo. No es que no sea informativo el ítem de raza, la pregunta es, ¿para qué quiere el dueño del formulario saber eso?


 
I'm afraid I must disagree, RoRo.  Tu argumento es muy bueno, y palabra que los prejuicios, tags, labels, o como quiera que llamemos a meter a un montón de gente en una sola cajita, no me agradan en lo absoluto

Although, I'm teaching the Bible in the foreign field too, and _*believe me*_, it is always necessary to know the terms that don't offend anybody (although I believe it's already set clear that it's virtually impossible not to offend somebody, when addressing to our differences).

For example, I used to teach in Venezuelan Sign Language.  To whom?  Hard to say!  One could call my students in different ways, e.g. deaf, hearing-impaired/disabled/handicapped/challenged, people-with-special-needs-on-the-hearing-field... it never ends.

Resulta que muchos "oyentes" no usan la expresión "sordos" (deaf) para no ofenderles, pero -al menos aquí en Venezuela- la mayoría de sus familiares les llaman así.  Luego de indagar con personas de experiencia en el área, encontramos que el término menos ofensivo es audioimpedidos (hearing-impaired), y que muchos se molestaban si se les llamaba de otra manera.

As I've said many times already, those differences do exist.  We can't close our eyes to that fact.  But, to me, those differences make life much richer and more interesting (and also reveal who we really are, as we judge our own reactions when we cope with them).

But, not everybody (well, okay, a minority) thinks the same way.  Ergo, sometimes it's necessary to run a search in the same way cmjoell is doing.


----------



## scotu

María Madrid said:


> Me permito recordar que, a pesar por lo que se dice en algunos mensajes de este hilo, que parecen asumir que esa obligación de indicar la raza es extendidísima, hay muchos países en los que es impensable tener que cumplimentar una casilla así. El planeta es bastante más grande y con usos bastante más diferentes de lo que deben de pensar algunos. Saludos,


 


> Es correcto mi intento de traducir su post como:
> May I remind you that in spite of what has been said in the various messages in this thread, that appear to assume that this obsession to indicate race is widespread, there are many countries in which it is unimaginable to thnk about compartmentalizing (to pigeonhole) people by race. This planet is big enough... (I'm having trouble with this part)


 
Porque piensas que algunos tienen esa obligación de indicar la raza.


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## María Madrid

much bigger, not big enough.

cumplimentar una casilla - fill in a box (in a form)

De lo que deben de pensar algunos - than some might think

According to some posts on this thread, it seems that some people think that stating your race on a form is just a normal thing to do. It might be so in the US, but... hay muchos países en los que es impensable...

Saludos,


----------



## Julkio

Yes, of course. In Spain I've never seen that... so far. and I didn't realize, that is was for a form, where, yes is quite... strange. Anyway for certain purposes, it is very good to know, not the race, but the culture where the people come from.
In this case, anyway, the discrimination came, as always, from the purpose. To enter in the USA, I had to fill a bunch of form, and in some of them I had to say my race, and yes, there it was for discrimination, because it is looking for arabic and persian people. But I had to fill that in the international office of my university here in Texas, and it was to send me information about event related to my culture, and to propose lenguages exchanges.

And about what said Venezuelan_sweety, I think that is discrimination of the same people that is discriminated. Deaf is a perfect word for deafs, an if I say it I don't try to offend anybody. For example, my father is hemiplegic (he can't move the right side of his body, and he call himself "cojo" (lame??), why? because it is what he is, nothing else, and nothing more. And he is 75 years old, and because of that he call himself "anciano" or even "viejo", why?, again, because it is what he is. Even I know of course that there are people that may be ofended I you call them that way.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Julkio said:


> And about what said Venezuelan_sweety, I think that is discrimination of the same people that is discriminated. Deaf is a perfect word for deafs, an if I say it I don't try to offend anybody. For example, my father is hemiplegic (he can't move the right side of his body, and he call himself "cojo" (lame??), why? because it is what he is, nothing else, and nothing more. And he is 75 years old, and because of that he call himself "anciano" or even "viejo", why?, again, because it is what he is. _*Even I know of course that there are people that may be ofended I you call them that way*_.


 
Yeah, I know that. If you didn't call him "viejo", that doesn't make him any younger, and if you didn't call me "latina", that wouldn't make you think I'm Russian! So you're right. However, I'd have two things to add up.

1-The fact that you refer to a person by the politically correct term doesn't mean you're not a racist. You could perfectly call Persian a Persian (instead of the segregating term "arab"), but that doesn't mean you don't hold prejudices over that person (or say "african-american", and then wear your KKK white sheets and burn houses all around  )

2-You're careful over the terms you use because you're not part of the same group and you want to be polite/you don't want to offend anyone. (Or that's my case, at least)

There was a nice example of it above (a long way up in this same thread). It was about the expression "nigger", which is quite polemic in the US. If I use it, I'm sure I'd meet trouble. But I've heard some of my friends call each other that way, e.g. on the basketball court. Does it mean I have the "right" to call my friends that way? Not if I don't want to lose their friendship! Can you imagine what could happen if I say to my friend's beau: "You're my nigger, man!"?


----------



## scotu

Julkio said:


> And about what was said by Venezuelan_sweety, I think that is discrimination of the same people that is discriminated. Deaf is a perfect word for deafs, an if I say it I don't try to offend anybody. For example, my father is hemiplegic (he can't move the right side of his body, and he call himself "cojo" (lame??), why? because it is what he is, nothing else, and nothing more. And he is 75 years old, and because of that he call himself "anciano" or even "viejo", why?, again, because it is what he is. Even I know of course that there are people that may be ofended I you call them that way.


You make an interesting point here. Latinos (for lack of a better word) seem very cmfortable with calling things the way they are. "flaco, gordita, cojo, viejo, enano ect. are all affecitionate terms in Mexico. In the USA the equlivants "skinny, fatty, cripple, old man, or midget are rude and some would say vulgar. I think this is a significant difference between cultures. Even in this thread, it seems that "latinos" have no problem being called "latinos" but the "anglos" think that's discriminatory. In Mexico "gringo" is what I am called because that's what I am. Many _estadounidenses_ take offense at being called a gringo.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> You make an interesting point here. Latinos (for lack of a better word) seem very cmfortable with calling things the way they are. "flaco, gordita, cojo, viejo, enano ect. are all affecitionate terms in Mexico. In the USA the equlivants "skinny, fatty, cripple, old man, or midget are rude and some would say vulgar. I think this is a significant difference between cultures. Even in this thread, it seems that "latinos" have no problem being called "latinos" but the "anglos" think that's discriminatory. In Mexico "gringo" is what I am called because that's what I am. Many _estadounidenses_ take offense at being called a gringo.


 
You're so right. My father calls me "flaca", I call my brother "negro", and my mother is the "gordita" of the family. So yes, that's absolutely true!

(Just remember, that's between us--the family.  And those things are not a source of discrimination down here.  Now, if we talk about other stuff, as they have been exposed already, it's another story)


----------



## Janis Joplin

scotu said:


> You make an interesting point here. Latinos (for lack of a better word) seem very cmfortable with calling things the way they are. "flaco, gordita, cojo, viejo, enano ect. are all affecitionate terms in Mexico. In the USA the equlivants "skinny, fatty, cripple, old man, or midget are rude and some would say vulgar. I think this is a significant difference between cultures. Even in this thread, it seems that "latinos" have no problem being called "latinos" but the "anglos" think that's discriminatory. In Mexico "gringo" is what I am called because that's what I am. Many _estadounidenses_ take offense at being called a gringo.


 
That's true, that's why I posted at the beginning of this thread "Latino is sort of pejorative when someone who is not latino uses it"


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## Mirlo

You make an interesting point here. Latinos (for lack of a better word) seem very cmfortable with calling things the way they are. "flaco, gordita, cojo, viejo, enano ect. are all affecitionate terms in Mexico. In the USA the equlivants "skinny, fatty, cripple, old man, or midget are rude and some would say vulgar. I think this is a significant difference between cultures. Even in this thread, it seems that "latinos" have no problem being called "latinos" but the "anglos" think that's discriminatory. In Mexico "gringo" is what I am called because that's what I am. Many _estadounidenses_ take offense at being called a gringo.

See that's the point that I was trying to make, If you are happy with yourselve and you know who you are, What's the big deal? granted nobody likes the "labeling" part, but they are going to put something in that "form" the question is WHAT, I'd rather be a "latina" than some other thing, 
Saludos,


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## María Madrid

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> You could perfectly call Persian a Persian (instead of the segregating term "arab")


FYI: Persians are NOT Arabs,their culture, writing etc. is completely different... even if all of them they can be muslims, it doesn't mean they're all the same. Here we go again... Saludos,


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## sneaksleep

scotu said:


> You make an interesting point here. Latinos (for lack of a better word) seem very cmfortable with calling things the way they are. "flaco, gordita, cojo, viejo, enano ect. are all affecitionate terms in Mexico. In the USA the equlivants "skinny, fatty, cripple, old man, or midget are rude and some would say vulgar. I think this is a significant difference between cultures. Even in this thread, it seems that "latinos" have no problem being called "latinos" but the "anglos" think that's discriminatory. In Mexico "gringo" is what I am called because that's what I am. Many _estadounidenses_ take offense at being called a gringo.



Soooo true! I'll never forget when my friend's mother, after not seeing me for about a year, greeted me not with "Hola" or "Como te fue el vuelo?" but with "Ay, niña, que estás gorda!" (even though I had only gained about 5 kilos and she was truly obese).

I fully agree with Venezuelan_sweetie's point, too, that just because you used the "correct" word doesn't mean you are prejudice-free.


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## JoseCarlosdel

Beiam said:


> Latino means part of the old Roman empire, that mostly means the south part of Europe, Spain and Italy. Hispanic is a person who has spanish heritage, but not the ones who live in Spain, that may feel ofended if they're called "Hispanos" and not "Españoles" or "Spanish"


I am not agree with that.
I am Hispanic, bicause my country when romans where named Hispania. But I wonder why some people in States use the word Spaniard for me, and say that Spanish are all Spanish speakers. So, I am Spaniard, Spanish, Hispanic, and Latin, but you cannot add the word -american


----------



## JB

María Madrid said:


> FYI: Persians are NOT Arabs,their culture, writing etc. is completely different... even if all of them they can be muslims, it doesn't mean they're all the same. Here we go again... Saludos,


 
Pues al fin, después de 100+ entradas, me meto.  I hope I am not repeating anything (admito que no he leído todos).  I belive the Persian ethnicity belongs to the Aryan family.  And I was told that Farsi is closer linguistically to Turkish than to Arabic.  

As to Latinos/Hispanos/Hispanoamericanos/Latinoamericanos etc. being more comfortable with "apodos", it seems to me that nicknames, or titles--"names" other than their actual names--are more common in L.A. usage than in English in general.  I hear one friend calling another, at work, Hola Ingeniero, Arquitecto, Licensiado.  In English, no one would ever address someone else as, Hi Engineer, (Architect, Diplomate (?) what do you think of this idea?

So maybe that contributes to calling people El Gordo y La Flaca, et al.  Personally, the brief time I lived there, I loved being addressed as "Hola Profe."  And when people asked me if I was Mexican, I would say, "No, soy gringo, disculpe," and they would get a kick of out (disfrutar de) the fact that I was not offended by using "gringo".  More than once people told me they did not understand why American tourists were offended if they (the locals) called them gringos.


----------



## JoseCarlosdel

María Madrid said:


> ....
> Latin countries are those that were part of the Roman Empire,
> ...
> In any case I don't think latin (latino in Spanish) is a good choice, even if millions of people use it. Saludos,


I am sorry, but I don't agree with you. Latin countries are those were they speek one language with latin rooth.
Are not Latin countries Germany or Greece...


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## Mirlo

JoseCarlosdel said:


> I am sorry, but I don't agree with you. Latin countries are those were they speek one language with latin rooth.
> Are not Latin countries Germany or Greece...


 
Sorry "Latino" is a diminutive of "Latin American" "Latino Americano"."Latino" tiene muchos significados:
This is what RAE says about latino, not quite the same, actually. Saludos, 

*latino**, na**.*(Del lat. _Latīnus_).*1.* adj. Natural del Lacio. U. t. c. s.*2.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a los pueblos del Lacio, o a las ciudades con derecho *latino.**3.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua *latina.**4.* adj. Propio de ella.*5.* adj. Se dice de la Iglesia de Occidente, para diferenciarla de la griega. _Los padres de la Iglesia latina._*6.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a ella. _Los ritos latinos._*7.* adj. Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*8.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a esos mismos pueblos. _Los emperadores latinos de Constantinopla._ _Los países latinos de América._*9.* adj._ Mar._ Dicho de una embarcación o de un aparejo: De vela triangular.*10.* adj. desus. Que sabe latín. Era u. t. c. s.

_Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados_


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## Julkio

María Madrid said:


> FYI: Persians are NOT Arabs,their culture, writing etc. is completely different... even if all of them they can be muslims, it doesn't mean they're all the same. Here we go again... Saludos,


Of course, I know that and Venezuelan_sweety too (I think), but any way, almost everybody don't know that difference, and in Spain a lot of people call muslims "arabes" regardless if they are from Irak (correct me if it's not true, but I think they are persian), Saudi Arabia, Argelia or Moroco (I'm not sure about the spelling, again correct me please). And I can say the same for the people in the USA.


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## JoseCarlosdel

Mirlo said:


> Sorry "Latino" is a diminutive of "Latin American" "Latino Americano"."Latino" tiene muchos significados:
> This is what RAE says about latino, not quite the same, actually. Saludos,
> 
> *latino**, na**.*(Del lat. _Latīnus_).*1.* adj. Natural del Lacio. U. t. c. s.*2.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a los pueblos del Lacio, o a las ciudades con derecho *latino.**3.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua *latina.**4.* adj. Propio de ella.*5.* adj. Se dice de la Iglesia de Occidente, para diferenciarla de la griega. _Los padres de la Iglesia latina._*6.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a ella. _Los ritos latinos._*7.* adj. Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*8.* adj. Perteneciente o relativo a esos mismos pueblos. _Los emperadores latinos de Constantinopla._ _Los países latinos de América._*9.* adj._ Mar._ Dicho de una embarcación o de un aparejo: De vela triangular.*10.* adj. desus. Que sabe latín. Era u. t. c. s.
> 
> _Real Academia Española © Todos los derechos reservados_


*3. **adj.** Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua latina.4. **adj.** Propio de ella.*
*7. **adj.** Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*
¿porqué sólo tomas la octava acepción de la palabra?


----------



## Julkio

Janis Joplin said:


> That's true, that's why I posted at the beginning of this thread "Latino is sort of pejorative when someone who is not latino uses it"


I don't agree with that, I have an american friend here who is in love with the latin/hispanic/sudamerican/whatever culture. And whenever she says "latino" I can swear you that is not with any pejorative sense, and nobody takes it like that.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Julkio said:


> Of course, I know that and Venezuelan_sweety too (I think), but any way, almost everybody don't know that difference, and in Spain a lot of people call muslims "arabes" regardless if they are from Irak (correct me if it's not true, but I think they are persian), Saudi Arabia, Argelia or Moroco (I'm not sure about the spelling, again correct me please). And I can say the same for the people in the USA.


 
I do, Julkio, and thanks for defending me!   I believe most people just don't care about those differences.  All some individuals can see is that "they" are different from them in physical and cultural aspects therefore blindly tag a Persian "arab" (which is quite annoying to me).

That was my point.

Thanks...


----------



## Julkio

Well... In fact I don't know if I will be able to differenciate an Arab from a Persian if I don't know where they are from. So I also can understand that misinterpreting, even if I will never call Arab to my Iraki friend.
And sorry because I called you Venezuelan_sweety instead of Venezuelan_sweetie


----------



## scotu

Here are some things I have learned form this thread:
1. that "latino" (and although we haven't disdussed it, maybe "anglo") are acceptable and non offensive terms to describe the respective cultures. 
2. Neither should be taken to be offensive, discriminatory or racist. 
3. Call me a latino or an anglo or a gringo but don't label me with this name just so you can discriminate against me or sell me more toothpaste.
4. If you have (negative) stereotypes in your mind about what a latino, anglo, etc is; I probably don't fit that stereotype.
5. You have a right to call me a beaner, a nigga, a honkey, or a pinche gringo, if you love me and you have a smile on your face or at least you know me well enough to know that I won't take offense at any of these terms when used affectionately, otherwise we can't be friends.
6. Not to take offense at words, especially, where no offense is intended.

Thank you all for helping me to understand these things.
scotu


----------



## María Madrid

JoseCarlosdel said:


> I am sorry, but I don't agree with you. Latin countries are those were they speek one language with latin rooth.
> Are not Latin countries Germany or Greece...


Sí Carlos y si ves los siguientes mensajes a ese mío, verás que maticé mi respuesta poco después, tras la similar observación de otro forero. Veo, además, que cortas mi frase a medias, lo que puede dar lugar a malentendidos.

Reconozco, por segunda vez, que no fui muy precisa en la redacción de esa frase, asumí que se sobreentendía que me refería a los países que habían sufrido un proceso de latinización. Entiendo que el hilo es ahora muy largo, pero creo que merece la pena leerlo entero Saludos,


----------



## Janis Joplin

jbruceismay said:


> As to Latinos/Hispanos/Hispanoamericanos/Latinoamericanos etc. being more comfortable with "apodos", it seems to me that nicknames, or titles--"names" other than their actual names--are more common in L.A. usage than in English in general. I hear one friend calling another, at work, Hola Ingeniero, Arquitecto, Licensiado. In English, no one would ever address someone else as, Hi Engineer, (Architect, Diplomate (?) what do you think of this idea?
> 
> So maybe that contributes to calling people El Gordo y La Flaca, et al. Personally, the brief time I lived there, I loved being addressed as "Hola Profe." And when people asked me if I was Mexican, I would say, "No, soy gringo, disculpe," and they would get a kick of out (disfrutar de) the fact that I was not offended by using "gringo". More than once people told me they did not understand why American tourists were offended if they (the locals) called them gringos.


 
En México, tenemos un refrán que dice "Todos Licenciados y todas señoritas" para indicar que siguiendo esa regla sé evita ser políticamente incorrecto.

Desafortunadamente en mí país, no sé si será por el hecho de que el procentaje de gente con carrera profesional no es alto, se le da mucha importancia a títulos tales como Licenciado, Ingeniero, Doctor, etc. sobre todo en ciertos medios como las dependencias gubernamentales y tengo la impresión de que en los estados del centro y sureste (puedo estar equivocada aquí, lo admito). Los gringos no se hablan así. 

Yo trabajo en una empresa con cultura gringa y lo común es tutearnos y rara vez nos referimos a otros por los títulos, así como lo lo hacen los empleados que vienen de EUA, además de que en la frontera somos poco conservadores, quizá también por la influencia de nuestros vecinos del norte.

Tengo una compañera a la que todos le decimos "prieta" porque es morena, y estoy segura de que ninguno lo hacemos para ofenderla.

Tuve una jefa negra (de EUA) y cuando llegó le dije que no le extrañara si le decía "mi negra" porque para mi era una muestra de afecto y no de falta de respeto, pronto todos le decían "negrita" y en poco tiempo ya se le hacía raro cuando la llamaban por su nombre, jeje!

Una española que conozco le molesta que yo prefiera considerarme "latina" en lugar de "hispana" y de ignorante no me baja, no entiende que yo me autodenomino como me da la gana y punto.

Después de tanto "rollo", mi punto es: *las palabras sólo son ofensivas cuando las usamos para ofender y aun cuando nos sean dirigidas con ese propósito, somos nosotros quienes decidimos si queremos sentirnos ofendidos o no.*


----------



## Julkio

scotu said:


> Here are some things I have learned form this thread:
> 1. that "latino" (and although we haven't disdussed it, maybe "anglo") are acceptable and non offensive terms to describe the respective cultures.
> 2. Neither should be taken to be offensive, discriminatory or racist.
> 3. Call me a latino or an anglo or a gringo but don't label me with this name just so you can discriminate against me or sell me more toothpaste.
> 4. If you have (negative) stereotypes in your mind about what a latino, anglo, etc is; I probably don't fit that stereotype.
> 5. You have a right to call me a beaner, a nigga, a honkey, or a pinche gringo, if you love me and you have a smile on your face or at least you know me well enough to know that I won't take offense at any of these terms when used affectionately, otherwise we can't be friends.
> 6. Not to take offense at words, especially, where no offense is intended.
> 
> Thank you all for helping me to understand these things.
> scotu


I won't be able to say it better, and I agree absolutely with that.


----------



## María Madrid

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> I do, Julkio, and thanks for defending me!  I believe most people just don't care about those differences. All some individuals can see is that "they" are different from them in physical and cultural aspects therefore blindly tag a Persian "arab" (which is quite annoying to me).
> 
> That was my point.
> 
> Thanks...


Veo que no te había entendido bien. En cualquier caso espero que no lo hayas entendido como un ataque, pues desde luego no era mi intención.

Meter a todos los que son diferentes en un mismo saco es otro ejemplo más de lo cómodo que es poner etiquetas a los que son de culturas diferentes en el cajón más sencillo y amplio posible. Como dice un viejo proverbio español, nada hay tan atrevido como la ignorancia !  iSaludos,


----------



## JB

JoseCarlosdel said:


> I am sorry, but I don't agree with you. Latin countries are those were they speek one language with latin rooth.
> Are not Latin countries Germany or Greece...


 
Primero, el alemán es una familia de lenguages distinto del latín.  El latín viene de la familia "Italica", y del latín, viene el español, francés, portugués, italiano y rumano.  

Del alemán viene varios otros (el danés, el sueco, et al.)  Aun el inglés se clasifica como una lengua alemana, aunque incluye una contribución grande del latín, por medio del francés, debido a la conquista de Inglaterra por el guerrillero francés Guillermo el Conquistador.  ´Supongo que puede obtener más información de eso en Wikipedia, Google, etc. si le interesa la historia de lenguas.

Y hablando de Grecia, el griego precede el latín por varios siglos.  El latín incluye palabras griegas (el programa, el tema, et al.), y debe parte de su formación al griego.  

As to what countries are "latino", obviously there is no one accepted definition; de lo contrario, este hilo tendría nada más con dos entradas, la pregunta y la respuesta.


----------



## Janis Joplin

Julkio said:


> I don't agree with that, I have an american friend here who is in love with the latin/hispanic/sudamerican/whatever culture. And whenever she says "latino" I can swear you that is not with any pejorative sense, and nobody takes it like that.


 

I believe you, in my first post I explained like that too!


----------



## Julkio

Janis Joplin said:


> Una española que conozco le molesta que yo prefiera considerarme "latina" en lugar de "hispana" y de ignorante no me baja, no entiende que yo me autodenomino como me da la gana y punto.
> 
> Después de tanto "rollo", mi punto es:  *las palabras sólo son ofensivas cuando las usamos para ofender y aun cuando nos sean dirigdas con ese propósito, somos nosotros quienes decidimos si queremos sentirnos ofendidos o no.*


La española que conoces es un poco.... ejem. Yo tambien soy español y la verdad, como tu dices te puedes llamar como a ti te de la gana, que es lo normal (excepto si te llamas a ti misma rusa, que quedaría un poco raro)

Y tu última frase debería ser lo que todo el mundo pensase (es lo que yo pienso) aunque desafortunadamente no es así


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## María Madrid

scotu said:


> Here are some things I have learned form this thread:
> 1. that "latino" (and although we haven't disdussed it, maybe "anglo") are acceptable and non offensive terms to describe the respective cultures.


Acceptable, maybe; accurate, appropriate.. certainly not, but it seems we'll have to cope with it, since that's what you say in US. Saludos,


----------



## Julkio

jbruceismay said:


> Primero, el alemán es una familia de lenguages distinto del latín.  El latín viene de la familia "Italica", y del latín, viene el español, francés, portugués, italiano y rumano.
> 
> Del alemán viene varios otros (el danés, el sueco, et al.)  Aun el inglés se clasifica como una lengua alemana, aunque incluye una contribución grande del latín, por medio del francés, debido a la conquista de Inglaterra por el guerrillero francés Guillermo el Conquistador.  ´Supongo que puede obtener más información de eso en Wikipedia, Google, etc. si le interesa la historia de lenguas.
> 
> Y hablando de Grecia, el griego precede el latín por varios siglos.  El latín incluye palabras griegas (el programa, el tema, et al.), y debe parte de su formación al griego.
> 
> As to what countries are "latino", obviously there is no one accepted definition; de lo contrario, este hilo tendría nada más con dos entradas, la pregunta y la respuesta.



No tenía ni idea de que el rumano venía tambien del latín, jamas lo hubiera dicho.

Y no llames a Guillermo "El Conquistador" guerrillero. Guerrillero se usa para los integrantes de ejercitos no legitimos, o no permanentes, o para los que usan la guerra de guerrillas que son pequeñas batallas que se destinan a minar la confianza o la infraestructura del otro ejercito, en vez de conquistar territorios y mantenerlos.


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## Janis Joplin

Julkio said:


> La española que conoces es un poco.... ejem. Yo tambien soy español y la verdad, como tu dices te puedes llamar como a ti te de la gana, que es lo normal (excepto si te llamas a ti misma rusa, que quedaría un poco raro)
> 
> Y tu última frase debería ser lo que todo el mundo pensase (es lo que yo pienso) aunque desafortunadamente no es así


 
Jeje, rusa no, me dicen *china*, pero es por el *cabello rizado*.

Y si, mi "amiga" española es especial... quiere que yo me autodenomine hispana mientras que por la espalda me llama sudaca, en fin.


----------



## JB

Julkio said:


> No tenía ni idea de que el rumano venía tambien del latín, jamas lo hubiera dicho. El nombre "rumano" viene de "romano" y fue un territorio conquistado por los romanos; por eso su lengua actual derive del latín. Y fue una sorpresa para mí, también, cuando lo aprendí por primera vez, porque cuando pienso en Rumania me hace pensar en Bulgaria, Hungaria y los otros países de esa región. Igual para Ud., supongo,,
> 
> Y no llames a Guillermo "El Conquistador" guerrillero. Tiene razón. Debía de haber puesto *guerrero*.


----------



## Julkio

Janis podría aconsejarte que cambies de amigos. jejeje
Y por favor, que nadie nos tome a los españoles por la gente como esa chica, que he conocido a algunos sudamericanos que lo hacen y me jode un monton.


----------



## scotu

María Madrid said:


> Acceptable, maybe; accurate, appropriate.. certainly not, but it seems we'll have to cope with it, since that's what you *they* say in US. Saludos,


What alternative do you suggest? Saludos,


----------



## Julkio

Tambien te diría que no metieras en el mismo saco a bulgaros y hungaros. Los bulgaros no se, pero los hungaros tienen unas raices muy particulares, son magiares, y su lengua solo esta emparentada y remotamente con el euskera (la lengua del País Vasco) y el finnes (Finlandia). Pero, si, yo pensaba eso igualmente. So, thanks


----------



## Janis Joplin

Julkio said:


> Janis podría aconsejarte que cambies de amigos. jejeje
> Y por favor, que nadie nos tome a los españoles por la gente como esa chica, que he conocido a algunos sudamericanos que lo hacen y me jode un monton.


 
Don't worry...be hippie!


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

María Madrid said:


> Veo que no te había entendido bien. En cualquier caso espero que no lo hayas entendido como un ataque, pues desde luego no era mi intención.
> 
> Meter a todos los que son diferentes en un mismo saco es otro ejemplo más de lo cómodo que es poner etiquetas a los que son de culturas diferentes en el cajón más sencillo y amplio posible. Como dice un viejo proverbio español, nada hay tan atrevido como la ignorancia ! iSaludos,


 
Nevermind, María!

And thanks for clearing that out, it's always comforting to know one's message is coming out the way we mean it to.

Cheers!



scotu said:


> What alternative do you suggest? Saludos,


 
Great point.  I thought that's what this thread was originally meant to reach, but...   

Ya know, I have this saying: "Critica sólo si estás dispuesto a ofrecer una solución mejor".

Of course, the idea in here is not just to throw criticisms over one another (and I'm not saying we're doing that, okay?  No misunderstandings...  ).

What do you say, guys, if we try to summarize all this and close with a list of the terms that we perhaps would dare to use?


----------



## Julkio

As I said before I will certainly use the word latino, for me is perfectly correct, and if the purpose is correct it shouldn't be offensive.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

I agree with Julkio.  I'm often called "latina", and to me it's just the same if I hear it from another Venezuelan person or from a British/Chinese/Egypcian/Italian/Russian/Malaysian/whatsoever...


----------



## Julkio

By the way, would you call ma latino or something like that? I am from Spain. Y no me digan "gallego"


----------



## Franra

Hasta ahora se ha hablado largo y tendido acerca de como las definiciones de otros pueden afectar o no a cada una de nuestras etnias/culturas/razas. Pero que hay de los que, quizás sin conciencia de aquello, adoptan definiciones o conceptos que afectan a su entorno? Me explico: America en vez de EEUU, o Americanos, en vez de estadounidenses. A mi la verdad no me ofende que me llamen latina, pero si me ofende profundamente que un país de nuestro continente se apodere del nombre del mismo, como si aquella identidad no nos perteneciera a todos. Y no pretendo ser descortés con aquellos que provienen de los US, sólo me produce mucha curiosidad saber si existe alguna noción en su país de lo imperialista que es aquel concepto y si el resto de los que vivimos en las Américas se siente, de alguna manera, agredido por aquello.


----------



## Janis Joplin

Julkio said:


> By the way, would you call ma latino or something like that? I am from Spain. Y no me digan "gallego"


 
Yo no, si fueras uno de mis cuates te diría "gachupín" jeje! Y si me conocieras no te molestaría.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Julkio said:


> By the way, would you call ma latino or something like that? I am from Spain. Y no me digan "gallego"


 
It depends...  What I learned from my friends born in european countries that could actually be called 'latinos' more fittingly than mine, is that they prefer to be called european, or rather, just by their nationality.

What do you personally prefer, Julkio?


----------



## JoseCarlosdel

cmjoell said:


> I am learning spanish to help people in our area learn more about the Bible. I notice that the huge spanish speaking population here comes from all different backgrounds (i.e. S.America, Central Am., different Islands, etc.) What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage? Thank you.


*Re: Correct word for those of Spanish heritage* 
This were the topic and the initial question. I am still thinking (I read a lot of the opinions, but not all of them(I am sorry)) that in Spanish is correct to say "Hispano" or "Hispanohablante" (I think italian, brasilian are not in the group you asked for, then cannot be "Latino") and in English "Spanish speaker". 
I really don't understand why you needed more label than "Spanish heritage" or "Spanish speakers" for this. I wonder, what about English heritage.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

loladamore said:


> You might find *this thread* interesting, or *this one*. If (and only if) you have plenty of free time, *try this*.
> 
> Saludos.


 
Hey, I just noticed something.  Do you remember when loladamore gently provided these three nice links, related to the topic?

Well, the third one is more than two years old, and the most recent entry was only a couple of months ago.  I'd rather not to mention the number of posts, since it's outrageous....


----------



## Julkio

Por lo que te conozco del foro Janis, no me molestaría que me llames ni gachupin, ni gallego.

I agree with Franra and in spanish I always say estadounidenses, but are there any word to say "estadounidenses" instead of american?



Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> It depends...  What I learned from my friends born in european countries that could actually be called 'latinos' more fittingly than mine, is that they prefer to be called european, or rather, just by their nationality.
> 
> What do you personally prefer, Julkio?


Usually my name, but my doubt is if the people form latinamerica would call me latin or european or any other thing, just to know.


----------



## sneaksleep

Julkio said:


> Por lo que te conozco del foro Janis, no me molestaría que me llames ni gachupin, ni gallego.
> 
> I agree with Franra and in spanish I always say estadounidenses, but are there any word to say "estadounidenses" instead of american?



I agree with Franra, too, but I think you've hit upon the dilemma, Julkio, at least when it comes to English. "Unitedstatesian" or "US of American" just don't sound right. And "North American" could also mean Mexican or Canadian (at least according to the way US students are taught geography--which is a whole separate debate, I'm sure). The only viable English option would be to say "from the United States," and that's far too wordy for most people's patience level.


----------



## Franra

Julkio said:


> Por lo que te conozco del foro Janis, no me molestaría que me llames ni gachupin, ni gallego.
> 
> I agree with Franra and in spanish I always say estadounidenses, but are there any word to say "estadounidenses" instead of american?



Maybe US citizen, or someting like that.... Don´t know. Pero ahí está la injusticia del asunto, que los mal llamados "americanos", realmente parecen no tener conciencia de lo mal utilizado del término para referirse a ellos mismos. Tnto así que parece no haber definiciones "políticamente correctas" para aquello.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Julkio said:


> Usually my name, but my doubt is if the people form latinamerica would call me latin or european or any other thing, just to know.


 
I don't know what my fellas from Colombia, Chile or Argentina would say, but I believe "venezoleños" would say "españoletos"...


----------



## Janis Joplin

Franra said:


> Pero que hay de los que, quizás sin conciencia de aquello, adoptan definiciones o conceptos que afectan a su entorno? Me explico: America en vez de EEUU, o Americanos, en vez de estadounidenses...si me ofende profundamente que un país de nuestro continente se apodere del nombre del mismo, como si aquella identidad no nos perteneciera a todos...me produce mucha curiosidad saber si existe alguna noción en su país de lo imperialista que es aquel concepto...


 
Lo que complica el asunto es que como dices se hace sin conciencia, es normal para ellos, por ejemplo, pensar que su campeonato de base ball es "mundial" porque se juega entre la liga nacional y la "americana".

Lo único que se puede hacer es negarse a utilizar los términos América y americanos con esos significados, supongo...


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Janis Joplin said:


> Lo que complica el asunto es que como dices se hace sin conciencia, es normal para ellos, por ejemplo, pensar que su campeonato de base ball es "mundial" porque se juega entre la liga nacional y la "americana".
> 
> Lo único que se puedo hacer es negarse a utilizar los términos América y americanos con esos significados, supongo...


 
Janis, you've just hit my key!

I've always found that quite amusing... Calling it "world series" just because it's both leagues inside of the same country, doesn't really make sense to me.

Of course, I'm not from the US, so...


----------



## scotu

Julkio said:


> Por lo que te conozco del foro Janis, no me molestaría que me llames ni gachupin, ni gallego.
> 
> I agree with Franra and in spanish I always say estadounidenses, but are there any word to say "estadounidenses" instead of american?


*Gringo,* or yankee 

Frank Lloyd Wright I think was the inventor of a word for Americans that never caught on: *Usonian *(*U*nited *S*tates *O*f *N*orth *A*merica) But it did catch on as the name for a new style of house that was at the time uniquely American.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> *Gringo,* or yankee
> 
> Frank Lloyd Wright I think was the inventor of a word for Americans that never caught on: *Usonian *(*U*nited *S*tates *O*f *N*orth *A*merica) But it did catch on as the name for a new style of house that was at the time uniquely American.


 
That's interesting.  What do you personally think, being from the US?  What would be a fitting expression, if not Americans?

Unless you think it's fine that way, of course...


----------



## sneaksleep

scotu said:


> *Gringo,* or yankee
> 
> Frank Lloyd Wright I think was the inventor of a word for Americans that never caught on: *Usonian *(*U*nited *S*tates *O*f *N*orth *A*merica) But it did catch on as the name for a new style of house that was at the time uniquely American.



Frank Lloyd Wright had a lot of good ideas that, alas, never caught on.

I dont' think we should use "yankee," though, because within the US, that's used to refer to northerners (or at least northeasterners).

I guess I'll probably stick with "US citizen" when it comes to people and "from the US" when it comes to other things (like baseball series )


----------



## Julkio

I really prefer not to use the word Yankee in Texas or in the rest of the south, because there are people that can get angry.


----------



## Franra

scotu said:


> *Gringo,* or yankee
> 
> Frank Lloyd Wright I think was the inventor of a word for Americans that never caught on: *Usonian *(*U*nited *S*tates *O*f *N*orth *A*merica) But it did catch on as the name for a new style of house that was at the time uniquely American.




But, Scotu, my question here is... do "americans" understand that América is a whole continent, not a country????


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

scotu said:


> *Gringo,* or yankee
> 
> Frank Lloyd Wright I think was the inventor of a word for Americans that never caught on: *Usonian *(*U*nited *S*tates *O*f *N*orth *A*merica) But it did catch on as the name for a new style of house that was at the time uniquely American.


 
How careless of me...

I didn't notice the first line of your post, sorry...

But, hey!  What about those from the South, who would rather not be called yankees?  And, well, if you don't mind being called gringo, then you're like the fifth "american" who says that to me (oh, and a couple of 'foreros' who posted earlier)


----------



## sneaksleep

Franra said:


> But, Scotu, my question here is... do "americans" understand that América is a whole continent, not a country????



Some people do understand, others (definitely a majority) don't. In school we are taught that there are two continents: North America and South America. The concept that people from both places are "Americans" (even just gramatically speaking) is never adressed in school at all. Pop culture obviously considered "American" to refer only to people and things from the US. However, I think most people who have traveled to other american countries understand at least a little.


----------



## Franra

sneaksleep said:


> Some people do understand, others (definitely a majority) don't. In school we are taught that there are two continents: North America and South America. The concept that people from both places are "Americans" (even just gramatically speaking) is never adressed in school at all. Pop culture obviously considered "American" to refer only to people and things from the US. However, I think most people who have traveled to other american countries understand at least a little.



Then, how do you call people that live in South America? There are asian, and european people... what are we, south-americans, or just latinos...

No pretendo "taparte a preguntas", sólo despejo algunas dudas con respecto a la cultura estadounidense que nadie me había contestado hasta ahora, I hope that´s Ok.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Janis Joplin said:


> Lo que complica el asunto es que como dices se hace sin conciencia, es normal para ellos, por ejemplo, pensar que su campeonato de base ball es "mundial" porque se juega entre la liga nacional y la "americana".
> 
> Lo único que se puede hacer es negarse a utilizar los términos América y americanos con esos significados, supongo...


 
I forgot to add this: A long, long, long time ago, Venezuela was not Venezuela, it was "Los Estados Unidos de Venezuela", due to the type of government (literally, United States of Venezuela).  Later on, it was "República de Venezuela", and now it's "República Bolivariana de Venezuela" (and maybe soon, the world "Socialista" could be added, but that's for another thread    )  But all over the world, my homeland is just called "Venezuela", period.  And, I've never heard anyone complaining about that.

However, when we talk about the US, it's different, since Venezuela is not the name of a continent, while America is.  So, maybe that's the reason behind it all (not that it excuses the whole thing, but it's easier to see it, at least...)

Whatever...  It was just a comment...


----------



## Franra

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> I forgot to add this: A long, long, long time ago, Venezuela was not Venezuela, it was "Los Estados Unidos de Venezuela", due to the type of government (literally, United States of Venezuela).  Later on, it was "República de Venezuela", and now it's "República Bolivariana de Venezuela" (and maybe soon, the world "Socialista" could be added, but that's for another thread    )  But all over the world, my homeland is just called "Venezuela", period.  And, I've never heard anyone complaining about that.
> 
> However, when we talk about the US, it's different, since Venezuela is not the name of a continent, while America is.  So, maybe that's the reason behind it all (not that it excuses the whole thing, but it's easier to see it, at least...)
> 
> Whatever...  It was just a comment...





Yeah, but If Venezuela wants to be called América, it couldn´t. That´s the point. Hablamos de un país poderoso que domina más de la mitad del mundo, que se adueña de conceptos que no le pertenecen (por completo..) Conceptualmente no es lo mismo.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Franra said:


> Yeah, but If Venezuela wants to be called América, it couldn´t. That´s the point. Hablamos de un país poderoso que domina más de la mitad del mundo, que se adueña de conceptos que no le pertenecen (por completo..) Conceptualmente no es lo mismo.


 
That's more or less what I meant, Franra.  However, I didn't mean to be that 'hostile'...


----------



## scotu

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> That's interesting. What do you personally think, being from the US? What would be a fitting expression, if not Americans?
> 
> Unless you think it's fine that way, of course...


I'm perfectly comfortable with *Gringo*. I used to be an American _y ahora soy mejicano_.
I have no fault with anyone calling the people up there:
*Americans* (anyone from the USA), 
*gringos* (any "white" non-latino; especially if he's carrying a camera  )
*North Americans* At the present time this word includes Canadians but not Mexicans, even though this isn't geographically correct, (sometime in the future I'm convinced the word will include Mexicans too,)
*estadounidense *When I'm talking to a latino that cherishes political correctness.


----------



## sneaksleep

Franra said:


> Then, how do you call people that live in South America? There are asian, and european people... what are we, south-americans, or just latinos...
> 
> No pretendo "taparte a preguntas", sólo despejo algunas dudas con respecto a la cultura estadounidense que nadie me había contestado hasta ahora, I hope that´s Ok.



No te preocupai 

Concuerdo plenamente contigo en lo imperealista que es la costumbre estadounidense de apropiar la palabra "americana" para ellos solamente.

Now, for your question about what people from the US call people that live in South America, I think it varies. Obviously, if they know the person is a citizen of a particular country, they'd call them by that name--Chilean, Mexican, etc. (Just don't ask them to locate that country on a map!). If they don't know the person's exact origin, but they are most likely to say "latino" or "hispanic." Of course, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to say, or that it's correct, or accurate, or anything. I'm just telling you what people are most *likely* to say. They might say South American, but only if they were specifically making a contrast to North American, or if they were referring to geographic or geological features, not people. If they are smart, they will ask where the person is from more specifically, or at least ask how they would like to be referred to.

In case the other US natives participating in this conversation disagree with me, I want to stress that I'm only stating what I've observed in my own experience, and please do share your own--especially if they're different from mine. I do know other US natives who understand the concept of "America" as something bigger than just the US, but they are a minority. Really, if you think about it, anyone who travels to another country is a minority in the US, so it's not surprising that the language reflects that "egocentric" view of the world.


----------



## Franra

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> That's more or less what I meant, Franra.  However, I didn't mean to be that 'hostile'...




No, no... forgive me, *I* didn´t mean to be hostile. Is just the way it sounded, or maybe the way I expressed myself.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

sneaksleep said:


> No te preocupai
> 
> Concuerdo plenamente contigo en lo imperealista que es la costumbre estadounidense de apropiar la palabra "americana" para ellos solamente.
> 
> Now, for your question about what people from the US call people that live in South America, I think it varies. Obviously, if they know the person is a citizen of a particular country, they'd call them by that name--Chilean, Mexican, etc. (Just don't ask them to locate that country on a map!). If they don't know the person's exact origin, but they are most likely to say "latino" or "hispanic." Of course, that doesn't mean it's the right thing to say, or that it's correct, or accurate, or anything. I'm just telling you what people are most *likely* to say. They might say South American, but only if they were specifically making a contrast to North American, or if they were referring to geographic or geological features, not people. If they are smart, they will ask where the person is from more specifically, or at least ask how they would like to be referred to.
> 
> In case the other US natives participating in this conversation disagree with me, I want to stress that I'm only stating what I've observed in my own experience, and please do share your own--especially if they're different from mine. I do know other US natives who understand the concept of "America" as something bigger than just the US, but they are a minority. Really, if you think about it, anyone who travels to another country is a minority in the US, so it's not surprising that the language reflects that "egocentric" view of the world.


 
That's exactly the kind of things one likes to read in here!

Gracias por ese aporte tan espectacular, sneaksleep!




Franra said:


> No, no... forgive me, *I* didn´t mean to be hostile. Is just the way it sounded, or maybe the way I expressed myself.


 
Well, as I posted a long way ago, it's hard not to come up with some thorns when we catch up on such "prickly" topics...  Thoughts and feelings are always in there, and when we have the chance to express them, sometimes they don't sound the same way we meant them (in other people's ears...  )

Sorry if I didn't get it straight, Franra


----------



## sneaksleep

Franra said:


> There are asian, and european people...



I forgot to address the part about South Americans of who are of Asian origin. I think this would kind of confuse a lot of less-travelled US natives. Even though intellectually we all understand that the US is not the only multicultural country in the world, I still think people are a little surprised to realize that Peru can have a Japanese president. They might finally call him peruvian, but they'd have to think about it first.


----------



## Julkio

And do not forget the african heritage, which is very common in the Caribbean islands


----------



## Mirlo

JoseCarlosdel said:


> *3. **adj.** Perteneciente o relativo a la lengua latina.4. **adj.** Propio de ella.*
> *7. **adj.** Natural de los pueblos de Europa y América en que se hablan lenguas derivadas del latín.*
> ¿porqué sólo tomas la octava acepción de la palabra?


nO YO TOMO TODAS LAS ASCEPCIONES DE LA PALABRA PARA DECIR QUE SI SE NOS PUEDE LLAMAR "LATINOS" EN UN MOMENTO DETERMINADO. AHORA QUE NOS GUSTE O NO ES OTRA COSA!


----------



## Franra

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> That's exactly the kind of things one likes to read in here!
> 
> Gracias por ese aporte tan espectacular, sneaksleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, as I posted a long way ago, it's hard not to come up with some thorns when we catch up on such "prickly" topics...  Thoughts and feelings are always in there, and when we have the chance to express them, sometimes they don't sound the same way we meant them (in other people's ears...  )
> 
> Sorry if I didn't get it straight, Franra




Quería agregar que nosé para qué te respondo en inglés cuando entiendes perfectamente el castellano!!!!  jajajajaja


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

I don't know...  Being Venezuelan, I find all this really weird.  

I mean, 178 posts over one simple question, which was made by someone who means to help others? (Who, by the way, is not dedicating his/her time just to fellow 'americans', which is a good sign of being prejudice-free, or at least, not leaded by prejudices...)

It's a bit strange for someone whose culture allows calling others "chino" instead of Asian, "negro" instead of colored (or whatever the acceptable term is), "árabe" to anyone with some certain physical characteristics, and so on and so forth.

It's all on the sense you mean it.  For example, as I said, I call my brother "negro", and he loves it.  But, if a car hits mine and the driver's skin is darker than mine, would I shout "Negro!!!"?  NO WAY!

Sorry, I'm just dabbling... All this gave me kind of a little headache...



Franra said:


> Quería agregar que nosé para qué te respondo en inglés cuando entiendes perfectamente el castellano!!!! jajajajaja


 
Well, that's me!  For some crazy reason I still haven't found out, expressing myself is much easier to me in English...  So it's fine...


----------



## Janis Joplin

Yo usaría la palabra "hispanic" para referirme a una minoría en los EEUU, diría "latino" para referirme a músicos o actores y dependiendo las circunstancias pues me acomodaría en uno u otro concepto. 

En español tendría que decir que soy Latinoamericana hispanoparlante, muuuy largo, ¿no? Mejor sólo digo que soy mexicana o "mexa" (de cariño, jeje!).


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Janis Joplin said:


> Yo usaría la palabra "hispanic" para referirme a una minoría en los EEUU, diría "latino" para referirme a músicos o actores y dependiendo las circunstancias pues me acomodaría en uno u otro concepto.
> 
> En español tendría que decir que soy Latinoamericana hispanoparlante, muuuy largo, ¿no? Mejor sólo digo que soy mexicana o "mexa" (de cariño, jeje!).


 
Ja ja!  Sabes?  Me da un poco de envidia, ya que con los mexicanos se puede abreviar con confianza...

Los colombianos suelen llamarnos "venecos"...  Pero no es precisamente por cariño!


----------



## DCPaco

María Madrid said:


> I think this is just one of the original problems. I've never seen "that side of the world" called Latin America in any map or atlas. Latin America was "invented" to avoid "Hispanoamérica" or "Iberoamérica", those terms were supposed to have "imperialist" connotations. So in order not to be offensive with those sensitive souls who saw imperialist traces even in the most peculiar terms, another empire, which never set foot on those territories (the Roman empire), was chosen to create a quite artificial name... which has proved to be very successful, anyway.
> 
> Latin countries are those that were part of the Roman Empire, as explained before. At school we learn about "proceso de latinización" in the territories invaded by Rome. I was once told by a Peruvian "para los españoles es diferente, pero nosotros, los latinos...."  So we're not latin!!! Good to be informed after so many years of thinking I was born and raised in a Latin country. Who is Latin then, an Italian or a Mexican? Both? Mexicans but not Italians? That's a really odd thing to say.
> 
> Sudamericanos is commonly used in Spain, a very inaccurate choice, as it doesn't include Central and North America. I know it's wrong but in Spain many people think Mexico is considered to be part of Central America. Using Sudamérica this way implies dividing the continent in just two halves, Central America is kind of considered to be in the Southern half. Yes, I know, that's NOT a good choice, I'm just saying it's common.
> 
> América de habla hispana. Too long, does not include Brazil...
> 
> My favourite, Iberoamérica, refers those countries that were invaded by the countries in Iberia, that seems to be quite accurate, just as países latinos refers to those invaded by Rome, ... but it's not accepted on the other side of the Atlantic.
> 
> I don't really have a valid alternative, since Hispanoamérica has been considered unacceptable, and it's too long for Americans to use (probably that's why they just say hispanic, it's a lot shorter).
> 
> In any case I don't think latin (latino in Spanish) is a good choice, even if millions of people use it. Saludos,


 
This makes sense when it is said to people who understand the history of Iberoamerica; however, when United Stateans say: "Latino" they don't mean a person who speaks Spanish; they mean a person who meets all their stereotypes: eats tacos, plantains, listens to music like salsa, merengue, regaeton (sp?), has brown skin, and is from a third world country. They would never refer to a person from Brazil as a Latino--unless they mistook him to meet all the aforementioned criteria. They would never call a Spaniard that either. They would NEVER call Italians, or French people who are of Latin ascendence that either; therefore, it is an essentializing term and in my opinion, pejorative. As for "Iberoamérica", I use the term exactly as you have explained; I think it is the typical colonizing United Statean that doesn't like European terms to describe the people of this continent but many educated people use the term(s) "Iberoamerica(n)."

I recall an incident in Colorado:  I gave the cashier my license to verify identity for my check; she asked me where I was from because of my Spanish name (and I guess my white skin and blue eyes); I said that I was Mexican and she said:  "don't say you're Mexican, say you're Spanish...it's a bad word to say you're Mexican."  To this I replied:  I'm not Spanish, I was born in Mexico and if you find that offensive, I find your ignorance offensive.  Now, I don't mean this in any way offensive to the Spaniards, but I'm certain we all agree, that our country is our country and that inside us all, there is a bit of patriotism that surfaces precisely in these situations.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

DCPaco said:


> This makes sense when it is said to people who understand the history of Iberoamerica; however, when United Stateans say: "Latino" they don't mean a person who speaks Spanish; they mean a person who meets all their stereotypes: eats tacos, plantains, listens to music like salsa, merengue, regaeton => reggaeton (sp?), has brown skin, and is from a third world country. They would never refer to a person from Brazil as a Latino--unless they mistook him to meet all the aforementioned criteria. They would never call a Spaniard that either. They would NEVER call Italians, or French people who are of Latin ascendence that either; therefore, it is an essentializing term and in my opinion, pejorative. As for "Iberoamérica", I use the term exactly as you have explained; I think it is the typical colonizing United Statean that doesn't like European terms to describe the people of this continent but many educated people use the term(s) "Iberoamerica(n)."


 
Just for the spelling...

Before I finally go insane and end up unsubscribing from (and perhaps even blocking up, is such thing is possible) every thread related to the topic, I'd like to share with you guys an e-mail I received some time ago.

It's called "Los colores de mi hijo", and it's the most beautiful thing I've read in a long time over this matter.  I don't have it at hand right now, but when I find it, I'll post it here (if you guys don't mind...)


----------



## DCPaco

Thank you VS


----------



## Janis Joplin

Yes, some people refer to us as latinos and make stereotyped associations to be offensive.  As I said before, it's up to each of us to decide whether to take it or leave it.

Gosh, suddenly I wanna eat tacos and dance salsa, azúcaaar!


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

DCPaco said:


> Thank you VS


 
You're welcome, dear.  My bro's a fan of the gender, so...  



Janis Joplin said:


> Yes, some people refer to us as latinos and make stereotyped associations to be offensive. As I said before, it's up to each of us to decide whether to take it or leave it.
> 
> Gosh, suddenly I wanna eat tacos and dance salsa, azúcaaar!


 
That's it, 'Janis'!  I'm personally proud of dancing salsa, ya know?  I love to see 'unitedstateans' try it...


----------



## Julkio

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Before I finally go insane and end up unsubscribing from (and perhaps even blocking up, is such thing is possible) every thread related to the topic, I'd like to share with you guys an e-mail I received some time ago.
> 
> It's called "Los colores de mi hijo", and it's the most beautiful thing I've read in a long time over this matter.  I don't have it at hand right now, but when I find it, I'll post it here (if you guys don't mind...)


I won't mind, but now I am really impacent to read that


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Julkio said:


> I won't mind, but now I am really impacent to read that


 
How is it they say?  "Patience is a virtude"? 

I'm almost gone, so I'll try to post it early tomorrow (well, early for me, Caracas' time!)

Sorry...


----------



## sneaksleep

DCPaco said:


> Thowever, when United Stateans say: "Latino" they don't mean a person who speaks Spanish; they mean a person who meets all their stereotypes: eats tacos, plantains, listens to music like salsa, merengue, regaeton (sp?), has brown skin, and is from a third world country. They would never refer to a person from Brazil as a Latino--unless they mistook him to meet all the aforementioned criteria.



I certainly agree this is true for some United Stateans (I like the term "United Stateans!" ). However, not generalizing is a two-way street, and I think that there are also many people who simply believe it to be the correct term for someone from Central or South America (whose specific origin they don't yet know), no taco-eating sterotypes attached. Now, they may need to be corrected on that belief, but that doesn't mean they use the term based only on sterotypes.

Your story about "Mexican" being a bad word is really awful. Not surprising, but definitely sad that _any_ nationality at all can be considered a "bad word." Sigh....


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## Alicky

Venezuelan_swetie: Es uno que empieza asì?...

LOS COLORES DE MI HIJO

Yo nací en una casa de lo más multicolor. Y no, no me refiero a las paredes. Esas eran blancas, como las de cualquier casa de Puerto Cabello en los setenta. Mi casa era multicolor por dentro.....


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Ese mismo es!  Te atreves a postearlo completo aquí?  Sería un aporte fabuloso...


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## Alicky

Es un texto hermosísimo V_Sweetie (espero que no te moleste, pero me encanta transformar nombres, a mis amigos les hago eso todo el tiempo, los vuelvo locos pobres), y gracias por traerlo a nuestra atención  !


 LOS COLORES DE MI HIJO

Indira Páez 



Yo nací en una casa de lo más multicolor. Y no, no me refiero a las paredes. Esas eran blancas, como las de cualquier casa de Puerto Cabello en los setenta. Mi casa era multicolor por dentro. Y es que mi mamá es de piel tan clara, que sus hermanos la bautizaron “rana platanera”. Y mi papá era de un trigueño agresivo, con bigote de charro, sonrisa de Gardel y cabello ensortijado, estirado a juro con brillantina. La vejez lo ha desteñido, a mi papá. Como si la melanina se acabara con el tiempo. Como si los años fueran de lejía. 

De esa mezcla emulsionada salimos nosotros, cinco hermanos de lo más variopintos. Mi hermano mayor, vaya usted a saber por qué, parece árabe. Ojos penetrantes, nariz aguileña, frente amplia y cabello rizado (cuando existía, pues ahora ostenta una calvicie de lo más atractiva). Le sigue una hermana preciosa, nariz perfilada, pecas, ojos inmensos, sonrisa como mandada a hacer. Castaña clara y de cabello cenizo. Se ayuda con Kolestone, vamos a estar claros. Pero le queda de un bien que parece que hubiera nacido así. Al tercero, extrañamente, le decían “el catire”. Nunca entendí por qué, con ese cabello de pinchos rebeldes que crece hacia arriba. Eso sí, tan rana platanera como la madre. Yo soy trigueña como mi padre, y mi nariz delata algún ancestro africano por ahí. Y mi hermana menor es pecosa y achinada, como si en algún momento los genes se hubieran vuelto locos y por generación espontánea hubieran creado una sucursal asiática en la casa. 

Así, los almuerzos en mi casa parecían más una convención de las naciones unidas que otra cosa. Claro que yo jamás me di cuenta de eso. Para mí eran almuerzos, punto. Con el olor inenarrable de las caraotas negras de mi mamá y las tajadas de plátano frito que se hacían por kilos. 

De chiquita nunca entendí por qué en el colegio de monjas un día una niñita me preguntó si mi papá era el chofer. Tampoco supe por qué no lo habían dejado entrar a cierto local nocturno muy de moda en los ochenta. Yo jamás me fijé en los colores de mi familia. Mi papá, mi mamá y mis hermanos, siempre fueron exactamente eso: mi papá, mi mamá y mis hermanos. 

Cuando yo era chiquita pensaba que los colores los tenían las cosas, no la gente. No entendía por qué a algunos les decían negros si yo los veía marrones, y a otros les decían blancos si yo los veía como anaranjado claro tirando a rosa pálido. Y menos aún entendía por qué aparentemente y para muchos adultos, era mejor ser “blanco” que “negro”. Una vez mi papá se comió un semáforo y alguien le gritó: “¡negro tenías que ser!”. Yo me quedé estupefacta al descubrir que los “blancos” jamás se comían los semáforos. 

Así las cosas, comenzó en mi adolescencia una suerte de fascinación por aquello de los colores de la gente, las etnias, las razas y esos asuntos que parecían importar tanto a la humanidad. Tanto, que hasta guerras entre países generaba. Tanto, que se mataba la gente por asuntos de piel. De genes. De células. De melanina. 

Yo buscando vivencias reales, y con lo enamorada que soy, tuve novios marrones, rosados, amarillos y uno hasta medio verdoso. Me casé con un italiano y tuve una hija que parece una actriz de Zefirelli. Y finalmente me enamoré hasta los huesos y me casé otra vez. Con un marrón. Un marrón de esos que la gente llama “negro”. 

Una tía abuela me dijo cuando me casé: “ni se te ocurra tener hijos con ese hombre, porque te van a salir negritos”. A mí no me cabía en la cabeza que a estas alturas de la historia universal, alguien pudiera hacer un comentario como ese. Pero mi tía tiene 84 años, y uno, a la gente de 84 años, le perdona todo. Hasta el racismo. 

Como soy bien terca salí embarazada de mi esposo marrón. El embarazo fue una montaña rusa total, así que cuando nació mi hijo, sano, con diez deditos en las manos y diez en los pies, un par de ojos, orejas, boca, nariz y gritos, yo estallaba de felicidad. Y cuando uno estalla de felicidad, no escucha nada. 

Pero resulta que han pasado cinco meses, y aunque sigo felicísima, se me ha ido pasando la sordera. Y como soy tan bruta, no termino de entender cómo es que tanta gente, que no solo mi tía la de 84, me pregunta “¿y de qué color es el niño?”. Sí, sí, así mismo. “¿De qué color es?”. Les importa muchísimo ese detalle a algunos. Tal vez a demasiados. Una amiga de España. Una antigua vecina. Una ex compañera de colegio. Una gente cualquiera que no tiene 84 años. Una gente que, que yo sepa, no pertenece al partido Neo Nazi, ni milita en el Ku Klux Klan, ni es aria, ni tiene esvásticas en la ropa. Una gente que se ofende si uno les dice racista. Llegan así, llaman, escriben. Y lo primero que preguntan, antes de esas típicas preguntas de viejita (“¿Cuánto pesó?” “¿Cuánto midió?” “¿Lloró mucho?”), es “¿y de qué color es?”. 

Y la verdad, lo confieso, a riesgo de quedar como una madre desnaturalizada, es que yo no me había fijado de qué color era mi hijo. Porque cuando nació mi hija la italianita nadie me preguntó eso. Entonces no pensé que era tan importante saberse el color del hijo. Yo me sabía la fecha de su primera sonrisa. Me sabía cuándo se le puso la triple, cuándo comió papilla por primera vez. Sabía que tenía tres tipos de llanto (uno de hambre, uno de sueño y uno de ñonguera). Sabía que por las noches le gustaba quedarse dormida en mi pecho. Cosas, pues, intrascendentes. Igual con mi bebé. Ya me sé sus ojos de memoria, por ejemplo. A veces están a media asta y es que tiene sueño, pero lucha porque no quiere perderse nada. Me sé sus saltos cuando quiere que lo cargue. La temperatura de su piel, el olor de su nuca. 

Pero el domingo pasado me encontré a una ex compañera de trabajo que no veía desde mi preñez, y ¡zuás!, me lanzó la pregunta. “¿Ya nació tu hijo? ¿Y de qué color es?”. Me agarró desprevenida, y no supe qué responderle, pero me prometí a mí misma averiguarlo, ya que a tanta gente parece importarle el asunto. Debe ser que es algo vital, y yo de mala madre no he prestado atención a la epidermis de mis críos. 

Así que ante tanta curiosidad de la gente, me he puesto a detallar los colores de mi hijo. Y resulta que mi bebé es un camaleón. Sí, de verdad. Cambia de colores. A las cinco y media de la mañana, cuando se despierta pidiendo comida, es como rojo. Un rojo furioso y candelero. Después se pone como rosadito, y se ríe anaranjado. A veces pasa el día verde manzana, y me provoca darle mordiscos por todos lados. Cuando lo baño, y chapotea con el agua, se vuelve como plateado, una cosa increíble. Cuando se le cierran los ojitos del sueño, es amarillo pollito y provoca acunarlo y meterlo bajo las dos alas acurrucadito. Finalmente se duerme y, lo juro por Dios, se pone azul. Y brilla en la oscuridad. 

Ese es mi hijo, multicolor. Sé que va a ser un poco difícil llenarle la planilla del pasaporte, o contestarles a las ex compañeras de colegio cuando pregunten de qué color es mi hijo. Pero eso es lo que hay. Lo juro. Mi hijo es color arcoiris. 


Me lo robé de esta pagina: http://laincognita.blogs.terra.es/los_colores_de_mi_hijo


----------



## xOoeL

cmjoell said:


> I am learning spanish to help people in our area learn more about the Bible. I notice that the huge spanish speaking population here comes from all different backgrounds (i.e. S.America, Central Am., different Islands, etc.) What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage? Thank you.



Bueno, hasta ahora se han dado muchas respuestas, pero yo no tengo clara la pregunta.  Y menos, tras leer las respuestas.
¿"Those of spanish heritage" significa...
- Gente que habla español?
- Gente con antepasados españoles?
- Gente que comparte la cultura española?
- Gente de América que habla español?
- Gente de América que vive en un país cuyo idioma oficial es el español?
- Gente de América que habla un idioma derivado del latín?
- Gente con rasgos españoles?
- Alguna combinación de las opciones de arriba?
- Otra cosa totalmente distinta.

O sea, que mi pregunta es:  ¿a quiénes quieres enseñar la Biblia?
Supongo que simplemente a hablantes de español.  
Entonces, ¿qué quieres decir con "spanish heritage"?
Sé lo que significa "heritage", pero no acabo de entender lo que quieres saber.


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## Julkio

Si muy bonito, ojala todo el mundo viera el multicolor


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

xOoeL said:


> Bueno, hasta ahora se han dado muchas respuestas, pero yo no tengo clara la pregunta. Y menos, tras leer las respuestas.
> ¿"Those of spanish heritage" significa...
> - Gente que habla español?
> - Gente con antepasados españoles?
> - Gente que comparte la cultura española?
> - Gente de América que habla español?
> - Gente de América que vive en un país cuyo idioma oficial es el español?
> - Gente de América que habla un idioma derivado del latín?
> - Gente con rasgos españoles?
> - Alguna combinación de las opciones de arriba?
> - Otra cosa totalmente distinta.
> 
> O sea, que mi pregunta es: ¿a quiénes quieres enseñar la Biblia?
> Supongo que simplemente a hablantes de español.
> Entonces, ¿qué quieres decir con "spanish heritage"?
> Sé lo que significa "heritage", pero no acabo de entender lo que quieres saber.


 
Isn't it kind of funny that now, after 195 posts, someone makes that question?

By the way, cmjoell, where are you, dear?  You only posted that single message, and disappeared right after, leaving such topic for us to deliberate...


----------



## xOoeL

Alicky, muchísimas gracias por el texto.  Me ha encantado.


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## Julkio

Now he is comfortable in his sofa, laughing at the mess he has generated. lol 

200 Post wow


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Alicky said:


> Es un texto hermosísimo V_Sweetie (espero que no te moleste, pero me encanta transformar nombres, a mis amigos les hago eso todo el tiempo, los vuelvo locos pobres), y gracias por traerlo a nuestra atención  !
> 
> 
> LOS COLORES DE MI HIJO
> 
> Indira Páez
> 
> .............................
> 
> Me lo robé de esta pagina: http://laincognita.blogs.terra.es/los_colores_de_mi_hijo


 
Thanks a lot, Alicky. That's precisely what I was talking about. 

There are a few expressions up there that are quite 'Venezuelan', so feel free to bother me to death in order to get it straight, okay? 

I'm gone for today, everybody. It's been a nice... ummm... discussion? (That in Spanish means fight, so...)

Express (and enjoy) yourselves, fellas!

Nos vemos!


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## Alicky

xOoeL said:


> Alicky, muchísimas gracias por el texto. Me ha encantado.


 
Por favor, fue un placer.

V_Sweetie: No dear, THANK YOU!


----------



## sneaksleep

Alicky said:


> LOS COLORES DE MI HIJO



Hermoso!!


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## micafe

Alicky said:


> LOS COLORES DE MI HIJO


 
¡Sensacional!. Me lo robé también para mandarlo a mis amigos.


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

loladamore said:


> You might find *this thread* interesting, or *this one*. If (and only if) you have plenty of free time, *try this*.
> 
> Saludos.


 
Well, Julkio, if you're surprised over 200 posts, take a look at these three links...  They're like:  !!!!


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## Venezuelan_sweetie

Alicky said:


> Por favor, fue un placer.
> 
> V_Sweetie: No dear, THANK YOU!


----------



## Mate

cmjoell said:


> I am learning spanish to help people in our area learn more about the Bible. I notice that the huge spanish speaking population here comes from all different backgrounds (i.e. S.America, Central Am., different Islands, etc.) What is the politically correct way in Spanish and also in English to generally refer to those of spanish heritage? Thank you.


 
I suggest you refer to them as "hispanohablantes". 

As you already know _Spanish speaking people_ is the English equivalent. 

I see nothing politically wrong in "hispanohablante".

I see nothing wrong in _Spanish speaking people_ either.


----------



## micafe

Mateamargo said:


> I suggest you refer to them as "hispanohablantes".
> 
> As you already know _Spanish speaking people_ is the English equivalent.
> 
> I see nothing politically wrong in "hispanohablante".
> 
> I see nothing wrong in _Spanish speaking people_ either.


 
Sí.. al menos en esa forma se están refiriendo a algo concreto y, lo que es mejor, estrictamente cierto.


----------



## Blehh.

Mi espanol es muy basico, y me preguntabo si alguien puede traducir el articulo "Los Colores De Mi Hijo" a ingles. Lei un poco, y me gusta mucho que puedo entender.


----------



## Marias-espanol

Hello,


Franra said:


> But, Scotu, my question here is... do "americans" understand that América is a whole continent, not a country????


Yes we do understand that it is a whole continent, we are taught that in school. I have been reading this thread, I have learned so much. I have always wondered what countries were considered to be Latin America. WOW! No wonder I have been confused, everyone has their own ideas! It is almost like no one knows for sure. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying anything bad about anyone. Just that everyone seems to think something different. I live in the U.S.A. and have all my life. My ancesters came over on the Mayflower. I am German, Dutch-Irish, Scottish, Indian (from America), and Full Blood American. I would never get mad if someone called me American, beacause that is what I am or where I am from. I would never consider myself as any of the above. I mark white because my skin color is white (unless I have a tan, but that is not my natural color). God made us all just the way we are and he loves us very much! We shouldn't let what others say bother us. Maybe people say something because they have always heard it that way and don't know any difference. I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard. Sorry if I spelled that wrong. If their ancestors came from there and that is where they live. I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican. I am not trying to Label anyone, I just thought that is how it was. I never knew for sure what Latino meant, I just thought they were from Latin America. I never knew anyone took offence to being considered Latino or Latin. I guess everyone looks at it differently. My best friends are Mexicans I go to their Resturant 2-3 times a week.  We eat, talk and just have fun.  I love them very much and just because I call them Mexicans doesn't mean I am disrespecting them.  I don't think anyone is any better than anyone esle. I hope you all have a wonderfull day, and God Bless!
Maria


----------



## DCPaco

Marias-espanol said:


> Hello,
> 
> Yes we do understand that it is a whole continent, we are taught that in school. I have been reading this thread, I have learned so much. I have always wondered what countries were considered to be Latin America. WOW! No wonder I have been confused, everyone has their own ideas! It is almost like no one knows for sure. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying anything bad about anyone. Just that everyone seems to think something different. I live in the U.S.A. and have all my life. *My ancestors came over on the Mayflower.* I am *German, Dutch-Irish, Scottish,* Indian (from America), and Full Blood *American*. I would never get mad if someone called *me American*, beacause that is what I am or where I am from. I would never consider myself as any of the above. *I mark white because my skin color is white (unless I have a tan, but that is not my natural color)*. God made us all just the way we are and he loves us very much! We shouldn't let what others say bother us. Maybe people say something because they have always heard it that way and don't know any difference. I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard. Sorry if I spelled that wrong. If their ancestors came from there and that is where they live. I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican. I am not trying to Label anyone, I just thought that is how it was. I never knew for sure what Latino meant, I just thought they were from Latin America. I never knew anyone took offence to being considered Latino or Latin. I guess everyone looks at it differently. My best friends are Mexicans I go to their Resturant 2-3 times a week. We eat, talk and just have fun. *I love them very much and just because I call them Mexicans doesn't mean I am disrespecting them.* I don't think anyone is any better than anyone esle. I hope you all have a wonderfull day, and God Bless!
> Maria


 
Okay, I think it's important to clarify that there is ethnicity, nationality, and self-identity. If you have all the nationalities you mentioned mixed into you, then you are trying to say "SOME of my ancestors came on the Mayflower." Perhaps some of my ancestors came on La Niña, La Pinta or the Santa María. 

ALL of us who were born on this continent are AMERICAN! That's some of the problem, that the people of the United States (a country that really has no name) think that they are American and the rest of us are the "other". Well, that's United Statean Imperialism.

As for skin color: Sorry, but if you really believe that those check boxes are there to describe a physical trait, you are wrong. In Mexico (and it may be this way in other countries), we have MANY check boxes to select from to identify your skin color ("color de tez"). We do this because if you are trying to give an apt description of someone you want to know if they have any distinguishing features, traits, or marks. The United Statean check boxes, have White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic/Latino, etc. (Now, if you look there, White is the only color--all the others aren't colors, they are continentalities [neologism] or identities). What many people forget--especially "white Americans"--is that in the ancient Caucasian Maps Spain was part of that. If "Americans" do remember that, then they use it to identify ONLY the European people...but since you possibly "look white" despite what you just said are part Native-American, why are you not called Mestizo or why are you not checking off the Native-American box? The thing is that the United States has a history of hyphenating the people that it doesn't consider the norm: (African-American; Irish-American [this came from when the norm was White Anglo-Saxon Protestant]; Mexican-American; Latino-American. Do you notice that they're not saying: Italian-American, French-American? Now maybe at one point they did say Italian-American...but so many more fair-skinned Italians have come along and Americans don't necessarily marginalize them. 

When you speak of your "Mexican" friends, you are speaking of people that were born in the country. I'm Mexican because I was born there. Why should I get offended? Thank you for loving us as Mexicans, but the statement is VERY patronizing.


----------



## JoseCarlosdel

Marias-espanol said:


> I live in the U.S.A. and have all my life. My ancesters came over on the Mayflower . I am German, Dutch-Irish, Scottish, Indian (from America), and Full Blood American. I would never get mad if someone called me American, beacause that is what I am or where I am from.
> full blood american??? what about Europe?. You can feel as U.S. citizen. But as far as I know, almost everybody there have some grandfather european or some familiar south/center american. So.. to be citizen of a country is just a feeling, a learnt feeling.
> Spain is a country since 1492, and now, there are people born and living in Spain saying they are not Spaniard. Who taught them this learnt behavior and why and what for??
> 
> I mark white because my skin color is white (unless I have a tan, but that is not my natural color).
> Come on! Perhaps you are pink, orange, or brown, take a white paper and see the diference with your hand.
> 
> I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard. Sorry if I spelled that wrong. If their ancestors came from there and that is where they live. I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican.
> What about their children are Mexican too? or they are U.S. citizen like you?


*Of course I don't want to annoy anybody. This a forum and I am trying to express in English. That's all.* 
Best wishes for everybody.


----------



## Mate

Marias-espanol said:


> My best friends are Mexicans


 
_Mis mejores amigos son judíos_. 

En la Argentina esta es una expresión atribuida a los antisemitas. Cada vez que un judío la oye se le hiela la sangre.

Tal vez sea una reacción exagerada. Una reacción visceral, inconsciente, que tiene sus raíces en la infame historia reciente. 

Es sabido, al menos por nosostros, que los responsables de la represión ilegal (1973-1983), con su saldo de 30.000 personas desaparecidas, eran acérrimos antisemitas. 

Este no es un post en contra de Marias-espanol. Ni a favor ni en contra. 

Es que lo citado arriba me llevó el pensamiento...


----------



## serg79_

Mateamargo said:


> _Mis mejores amigos son judíos_.
> 
> En la Argentina esta es una expresión atribuida a los antisemitas. Cada vez que un judío la oye se le hiela la sangre.
> 
> Tal vez sea una reacción exagerada. Una reacción visceral, inconsciente, que tiene sus raíces en la infame historia reciente.
> 
> Es sabido, al menos por nosostros, que los responsables de la represión ilegal (1973-1983), con su saldo de 30.000 personas desaparecidas, eran acérrimos antisemitas.
> 
> Este no es un post en contra de Marias-espanol. Ni a favor ni en contra.
> 
> Es que lo citado arriba me llevó el pensamiento...


Creo que *en todos lados* eso de decir "mis mejores amigos son..." después de haber dicho "no tengo nada en contra de los..." se suele atribuir a gente con prejuicios. Pero también se puede decir "mis mejores amigos son.../my best friends are..." sin que tenga absolutamente nada que ver con eso ¿no?


----------



## Mate

serg79_ said:


> Creo que *en todos lados* eso de decir "mis mejores amigos son..." después de haber dicho "no tengo nada en contra de los..." se suele atribuir a gente con prejuicios. Pero también se puede decir "mis mejores amigos son.../my best friends are..." sin que tenga absolutamente nada que ver con lo susodicho ¿no?


Por supuesto que si, sobretodo si no haces referencia a algún grupo étnico, racial, religioso, etc.


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Ok... Esto es lo que pasa cuando una se va a dormir, y deja desatendido un foro tan interesante como éste...   

A ver cómo le hacemos para ponernos al día!  

Let's get it started!

1. 





Blehh. said:


> Mi español es muy basico, y me preguntaba si alguien puede traducir el articulo "Los Colores De Mi Hijo" a ingles. Lei un poco, y me gusta mucho que puedo entender.


 
We assume the lack of ´'s is due to the keyboard, don't worry...   I'd be pleased to tanslate the article, dear.  Just, give me a few days and I'd get it in English, and maybe French too (with a little help from my forum buddies...  )


2. 





Mateamargo said:


> I suggest you refer to them as "hispanohablantes".
> As you already know _Spanish speaking people_ is the English equivalent.
> I see nothing politically wrong in "hispanohablante".
> I see nothing wrong in _Spanish speaking people_ either.


 
Yeah, maybe you're right.  Tal vez sea un poco genérico, pero nos ahorramos unas buenas liadas del estilo que encontramos por aquí... 


3. Let's do this one in the easiest way:



Marias-espanol said:


> Hello,
> 
> Yes we do understand that it is a whole continent, we are taught that in school. I have been reading this thread, I have learned so much. I have always wondered what countries were considered to be Latin America. WOW! No wonder I have been confused, *everyone has their own ideas! It is almost like no one knows for sure. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying anything bad about anyone. Just that everyone seems to think something different. <*Darling, we all come from different places, and since we are "the sum total of all our experiences", it's impossible to think exactly the same!  That's one of the nicest things of this contintent: diversity*!>* I live in the U.S.A. and have all my life. My ancesters came over on the Mayflower. I am German, Dutch-Irish, Scottish, Indian (from America), and *Full Blood American* <Does that actually exist?  Come on!  This continet is the product of colonies... And we are ALL Americans, not just you guys from the US.  How could we call ourselves _Full Blood Americans_?  Or, who would be the ones to do it?  Confusing, isn't it?  >. I would never get mad if someone called me American, beacause that is what I am or where I am from. I would never consider myself as any of the above. I mark white because my skin color is white (unless I have a tan, but that is not my natural color). God made us all just the way we are and he loves us very much! *We shouldn't let what others say bother us.*  <Well..., I do agree with the fact that we feel the way we choose to feel.  We can hear an insult and get mad, or we can hear it and not to get mad, it's all about the choice.  But, what you say is very easy to say when you're United Statean, my dear.  Have you ever been in the other end of the gun?  Then, please, darling, think twice.> *Maybe people say something because they have always heard it that way and don't know any difference.<*Okay, right... But, shall not we?  I mean, unless you don't mind offending others...> I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard. Sorry if I spelled that wrong. If their ancestors came from there and that is where they live. I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican. I am not trying to Label anyone, I just thought that is how it was. I never knew for sure what Latino meant, I just thought they were from Latin America. I never knew anyone took offence to being considered Latino or Latin. I guess everyone looks at it differently. My best friends are Mexicans I go to their Resturant 2-3 times a week. We eat, talk and just have fun. I love them very much and just because I call them Mexicans doesn't mean I am disrespecting them. *I don't think anyone is any better than anyone else *<Ah, what a nicer world it would be, if we all could really, sincerely, honestly think that way!> . I hope you all have a wonderfull day, and God Bless!
> Maria


 
By the way, no agressions meant!  It's just comments... 

4. 





DCPaco said:


> Okay, I think it's important to clarify that there is ethnicity, nationality, and self-identity. (...)
> 
> ALL of us who were born on this continent are AMERICAN! That's some of the problem, that the people of the United States (a country that really has no name) think that they are American and the rest of us are the "other". Well, that's United Statean Imperialism.
> 
> As for skin color: Sorry, but if you really believe that those check boxes are there to describe a physical trait, you are wrong. (...)The United Statean check boxes, have White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic/Latino, etc. (Now, if you look there, White is the only color--all the others aren't colors, they are continentalities [neologism] or identities). (...) ...but since you possibly "look white" despite what you just said are part Native-American, why are you not called Mestizo or why are you not checking off the Native-American box? The thing is that the United States has a history of hyphenating the people that it doesn't consider the norm: (African-American; Irish-American [...]; Mexican-American; Latino-American. Do you notice that they're not saying: Italian-American, French-American? Now maybe at one point they did say Italian-American...but so many more fair-skinned Italians have come along and Americans don't necessarily marginalize them.
> 
> When you speak of your "Mexican" friends, you are speaking of people that were born in the country. I'm Mexican because I was born there. Why should I get offended? .


 
Paco, I edited this for not making my post too long (though it already is, I think...)  I quite agree with your arguments, though I don't think I would express them in such open way (I hate to give the impression of an attack, so I'd rather keep my tongue --or my fingertips-- under restraint  )  Thanks for expressing OUR thoughts so clearly!


----------



## DCPaco

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Paco, I edited this for not making my post too long (though it already is, I think...) I quite agree with your arguments, though I don't think I would express them in such open way (I hate to give the impression of an attack, so I'd rather keep my tongue --or my fingertips-- under restraint  ) Thanks for expressing OUR thoughts so clearly!


 
.  Sorry, I did get a bit long-winded and my clarification wasn't an attack on Marias-espanol; rather, it was more food for thought--albeit spicey!

Saludos a todos!


----------



## nv1962

Note to moderators: I started typing here, and things sorta got out of hand... If you believe this approach is out of line, please feel free to delete this post. 

My intent is merely to chip into a long and interesting discussion, but without disrupting it with what ultimately became a very long thing that surprised even myself. Worse: I haven't even written the part yet that I think is most pertinent here (I say this merely based on the topic title) namely specific language issues of the native Spanish speakers in the US, which by virtue of its size, almost could be considered a nation in and by itself. Still, what I have so far ended up long enough to decide to not post the monster here.

Anyhow: Here it is


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

DCPaco said:


> . Sorry, I did get a bit long-winded and my clarification wasn't an attack on Marias-espanol; rather, it was more food for thought--albeit spicey!
> 
> Saludos a todos!


 
I'm sure you weren't, Paco.  That's not what this forum stands for, anyway.  And as I said, your comments were very, very true.

And, on deffense of Marias-espanol, I get your point.  What would I say about my own ancesters?  If you track up a bit, you would find traces all the way from Brazil, France, Spain, and even Scotland.  But my parents and grandparents were born here, and so was I.  So, what am I?  Perhaps the most accurate term is "mestiza" (y no me da ni frío ni calor...  ).  I speak Spanish, so, Hispanic? Spanish-speaker? Iberic-whateveritisinEnglish?  I was born in what is worldwide known as Latin America.  Then, latina?

Honestly, I prefer latina for what it means in my context, but I know it can be used offensively in other places (I don't understand why, but what-the-heck...?  ).  Spanish-speaking is perfectly correct, but it excludes whatever connotation about my culture (that's why I like latina  )

So, we could spend one day after another arguing about the matter, and you're totally right on that, Maria-espanol.  The funny thing is that this thread started for one simple question, referred to language exclusively.  So, why all this hustle-and-bustle?  I don't get it...


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

nv1962 said:


> Anyhow: here it is...


 
Fantastic!  Someone who DOES stick to the topic!  I'll take a look, nv1962.  Have a nice day!


----------



## nv1962

Whew! Thanks V_Sweetie... I'm really torn on "baring myself", not in the least given the ultimately chosen form - but I most certainly am grateful that at least you don't consider it off-limits because of the external location of the resulting text.

Still: if it's a problem, please delete my posts here; I understand and fully acknowledge that this is a language discussion forum, not a Rant-o-Rama.

Have a great day too. And if you go to the cemetery today: _paz y sosiego._


----------



## sneaksleep

nv1962 said:


> Note to moderators: I started typing here, and things sorta got out of hand... If you believe this approach is out of line, please feel free to delete this post.
> 
> My intent is merely to chip into a long and interesting discussion, but without disrupting it with what ultimately became a very long thing that surprised even myself. Worse: I haven't even written the part yet that I think is most pertinent here (I say this merely based on the topic title) namely specific language issues of the native Spanish speakers in the US, which by virtue of its size, almost could be considered a nation in and by itself. Still, what I have so far ended up long enough to decide to not post the monster here.
> 
> Anyhow: here it is...



Wow! Your blog post shows why whole books have been written on the subjects of language and imperialism. And you didn't even quite get to the part about what Spanish speakers should be _called_ (in English). Thanks for such a thoughtful contribution!


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

sneaksleep said:


> Wow! Your blog post shows why whole books have been written on the subjects of language and imperialism. And you didn't even quite get to the part about what Spanish speakers should be _called_ (in English). Thanks for such a thoughtful contribution!


 
Could I even add up something?  That's it!


----------



## micafe

Well.. I guess no matter what we do, things won't change. That's the way they are and we have to live with it. The next time I fill out a form I will not check the boxes for 'race' or where they ask if I'm Hispanic or Latino, because I do not understand what that means, and what's more, I don't understand what it has to do with anything. 

I'll keep telling them I'm from Colombia, even if they think about Columbia, South Carolina, or any of the many places in this country named after Mr. Columbus. There's even a place called 'Columbiana' in Alabama. I wonder where that came from. 

Anyway my dear friends, this is my last post on the issue. I'll keep trying to help people with their Spanish and every now and then with their English also. That's what the forum is about. 

Mis saludos a todos, blancos, negros, amarillos, azules y verdes.


----------



## SarahinOakland

There is a regional difference within the US as far as words for people of Latin American descent. "Hispanic" is usually used on the East Coast (New York, Washington DC, etc.). "Latino" is much more common in the West. Hispanic may sound mildly offensive to some in California - definitely not like "nigger," it's not a fighting word, but it sounds a bit old-fashioned or ignorant.


----------



## Babyboy6683

For me, I use latino or hispanic and to me all of them are fine as long as the word "spick" isn't used. I'm hispanic but I look african-american and I still consider myself Hispanic (Honduran) because African-Americans and Hispanics tienen culturas diferentes. So, ethnicity and heritage can get pretty complicated but to stay on the safe side I would use Hispanic, and for blacks...well I would say just use African-American but you can't assume every black person is African-American. Like in my case.


----------



## alacrancita75

Janis Joplin said:


> Latino is sort of pejorative when someone who is not latino uses it, in some cases as when someone call an afroamerican person a nigger, without being an afroamerican.
> 
> Latino is also incorrect because is related to Lacio and Rome.
> 
> Being hispanic means our parents and even our grandparents were born and raised in some country in Latin America and we were therefore raised within their culture, it doesn't matter if we live in the last corner of the world.
> 
> We, hispanics, come in different colors, we don't share an etnia but a culture.
> 
> I'm as white as a cucaracha in a bakery, and I'm also proudly hispanic.


Algunos comentarios, pido disculpas si no soy la primera que diga esto.
First -- I haven't really ever heard "latino" used as a perjorative, like n*gger.

Latino, when said in Spanish, means Latin. Which is the language spoken by the Romans. But why is it that all the languages derived from Latin are called ROMANCE languages? (It begs the question, what is so romantic about Latin or even the Romans? Hmmm?) There is a similar difference when you talk about Anglo-Saxon culture. The term Anglo-Saxon used to refer to the language of Old English, before the Norman Conquest. Now it basically refers to anyone of German, Scanidinavian, or British heritage, though even these don't apply anymore given the large range of ethnic and racial diversity in all countries of the world. 

It is really hard, I think, to lump all Spanish-speaking people together ethnically or even culturally, for that matter. Someone from Spain has a much more European cultural worldview than a Mexican does, for example.

And finally, I am half Mexican, half German, and I consider myself Euro-Latina. I am also very "guera", people would never guess that my surname is Treviño.


----------



## Marias-espanol

Hello,
Let me explain.


DCPaco said:


> Okay, I think it's important to clarify that there is ethnicity, nationality, and self-identity. If you have all the nationalities you mentioned mixed into you, then you are trying to say "SOME of my ancestors came on the Mayflower." Perhaps some of my ancestors came on La Niña, La Pinta or the Santa María. That is quite possible.  What would you call me?
> 
> ALL of us who were born on this continent are AMERICAN! That's some of the problem, that the people of the United States (a country that really has no name) think that they are American and the rest of us are the "other". Well, that's United Statean Imperialism. I don't understand what you are trying to say here.  The name would be United States of America.
> 
> As for skin color: Sorry, but if you really believe that those check boxes are there to describe a physical trait, you are wrong. In Mexico (and it may be this way in other countries), we have MANY check boxes to select from to identify your skin color ("color de tez"). We do this because if you are trying to give an apt description of someone you want to know if they have any distinguishing features, traits, or marks. The United Statean check boxes, have White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic/Latino, etc. (Now, if you look there, White is the only color--all the others aren't colors, they are continentalities [neologism] or identities). What many people forget--especially "white Americans"--is that in the ancient Caucasian Maps Spain was part of that. If "Americans" do remember that, then they use it to identify ONLY the European people...but since you possibly "look white" despite what you just said are part Native-American, why are you not called Mestizo I have never heard of this word. or why are you not checking off the Native-American box? Because I don't have that much Indian in me. The thing is that the United States has a history of hyphenating the people that it doesn't consider the norm: I thought they were people that came from other countries and now they live in America.  I really don't know I didn't label any of these people.(African-American; Irish-American [this came from when the norm was White Anglo-Saxon Protestant]; Mexican-American; Latino-American. Do you notice that they're not saying: Italian-American, French-American? Now maybe at one point they did say Italian-American...but so many more fair-skinned Italians have come along and Americans don't necessarily marginalize them.
> 
> When you speak of your "Mexican" friends, you are speaking of people that were born in the country. My friends that I spoke of ARE from Mexico and they were born there and still have family there.I'm Mexican because I was born there. Why should I get offended? Thank you for loving us as Mexicans,I was saying that I loved them because they are very good friends of mine, Or we are like family to each other. but the statement is VERY patronizing.I am sorry, I didn't mean for it to be, how is it patronizing?[/quote]
> 
> 
> 
> JoseCarlosdel said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Of course I don't want to annoy anybody. This a forum and I am trying to express in English. That's all.* I say I am full blood American because everyone in the U.S. are a mixture of all different races. Actually Indians are the true Americans. There are not many Full Bloods left. No I am not full blood of anything.  Ok so I may be pink, but I think it is referd to as white.  I do agree with you I am not as white as paper.  Well the children are Mexican, but they do have American citizinship as well.  So would that make them both?
> Best wishes for everybody.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> serg79_ said:
> 
> 
> 
> Creo que *en todos lados* eso de decir "mis mejores amigos son..." después de haber dicho "no tengo nada en contra de los..." se suele atribuir a gente con prejuicios. Pero también se puede decir "mis mejores amigos son.../my best friends are..." sin que tenga absolutamente nada que ver con eso ¿no?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't understand what you mean.  Just because I have good friends, doesn't mean I have anything against you or anyone else. I hope I have not hurt anyone's feelings, because that is not my intentions.
> Maria
Click to expand...


----------



## serg79_

Marias-espanol said:


> I don't understand what you mean. Just because I have good friends, doesn't mean I have anything against you or anyone else. I hope I have not hurt anyone's feelings, because that is not my intentions.
> Maria


Hi. Actually, my point was that you can say "My best friends are [whatever]" and mean just (and only) that. It was the other forum user who was suggesting something different...


----------



## Marias-espanol

serg79_ said:


> Hi. Actually, my point was that you can say "My best friends are [whatever]" and mean just (and only) that. It was the other forum user who was suggesting something different...


Serg79, 
Ok I just didn't want anyone to think that they were my friends just because they were Mexican.  Sorry for the confusion. 
Maria


----------



## Mate

serg79_ said:


> Hi. Actually, my point was that you can say "My best friends are [whatever]" and mean just (and only) that. It was the other forum user who was suggesting something different...


 
I assume that the other poster was me. If that's the case let me remind you this paragraph at the end of my post: *Este no es un post en contra de Marias-espanol. Ni a favor ni en contra.* 

Después me diste la oportunidad de dejar en claro mi visión sobre el asunto: 

serg79: "Creo que *en todos lados* eso de decir "mis mejores amigos son..." después de haber dicho "no tengo nada en contra de los..." se suele atribuir a gente con prejuicios. Pero también se puede decir "mis mejores amigos son.../my best friends are..." sin que tenga absolutamente nada que ver con eso ¿no?" 

A lo que Mateamargo replica: "Por supuesto que si, sobretodo si no haces referencia a algún grupo étnico, racial, religioso, etc."

Mexicano es una nacionalidad y una identidad cultural, no un grupo étnico ni racial ni religioso.


----------



## micafe

alacrancita75 said:


> But why is it that all the languages derived from Latin are called ROMANCE languages? (It begs the question, what is so romantic about Latin or even the Romans? Hmmm?)


 
I had said I was done with this thread, but this is just to clarify a language issue.

The word ROMANCE, when talking about languages developed from Latin, derives from ROMANUS (from Rome). Nothing to do with love affairs.


----------



## serg79_

Mateamargo said:


> I assume that the other poster was me. If that's the case let me remind you this paragraph at the end of my post: *Este no es un post en contra de Marias-espanol. Ni a favor ni en contra.*
> 
> Después me diste la oportunidad de dejar en claro mi visión sobre el asunto:
> 
> serg79: "Creo que *en todos lados* eso de decir "mis mejores amigos son..." después de haber dicho "no tengo nada en contra de los..." se suele atribuir a gente con prejuicios. Pero también se puede decir "mis mejores amigos son.../my best friends are..." sin que tenga absolutamente nada que ver con eso ¿no?"
> 
> A lo que Mateamargo replica: "Por supuesto que si, sobretodo si no haces referencia a algún grupo étnico, racial, religioso, etc."
> 
> Mexicano es una nacionalidad y una identidad cultural, no un grupo étnico ni racial ni religioso.


Bueno, simplemente respondía al último post de Marias-espanol, porque parece que no entendió muy bien lo que yo quería decir cuando respondí a tu mensaje anterior.

But if you quote a sentence someone has used and then give an example of when the same sentence is used by racists and finish by saying "my post is not against Marias-espanol. Not for or against. But the sentence quoted above made me think..." (puntos suspensivos incluídos), then I think it's fine for someone to point out that she could have simply been saying that her best friends were Mexicans, and nothing more. 

_A lo que Mateamargo replica: "Por supuesto que si, sobretodo si no haces referencia a algún grupo étnico, racial, religioso, etc."_

_Mexicano es una nacionalidad y una identidad cultural, no un grupo étnico ni racial ni religioso._

Yes, I'm well aware of that. But when Marias-espanol said "My best friends are Mexicans" *you assumed* she was talking about something other than their nationality, when in fact if you read the rest of her post, she actually said:

_I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard._

_I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican._

That seems like she's talking about nationality to me.


----------



## Mate

serg79_ said:


> Bueno, simplemente respondía al último post de Marias-espanol, porque parece que no entendió muy bien lo que yo quería decir cuando respondí a tu mensaje anterior.
> 
> But if you quote a sentence someone has used and then give an example of when the same sentence is used by racists and finish by saying "my post is not against Marias-espanol. Not for or against. But the sentence quoted above made me think..." (puntos suspensivos incluídos), then I think it's fine for someone to point out that she could have simply been saying that her best friends were Mexicans, and nothing more.
> 
> _A lo que Mateamargo replica: "Por supuesto que si, sobretodo si no haces referencia a algún grupo étnico, racial, religioso, etc."_
> 
> _Mexicano es una nacionalidad y una identidad cultural, no un grupo étnico ni racial ni religioso._
> 
> Yes, I'm well aware of that. But when Marias-espanol said "My best friends are Mexicans" *you assumed* she was talking about something other than their nationality, when in fact if you read the rest of her post, she actually said:
> 
> _I have always thought that someone from Spain was a Spaniard._
> 
> _I have always thought that someone that came from Mexico was a Mexican._
> 
> That seems like she's talking about nationality to me.


 
Sólo puse un comentario que me vino a la mente al leer el post de Marías.

Nunca traté de "interpretar" a Marias u otra persona como lo haría un psicoanalista. 

So, ¿why are we argueing? ¿Who cares? ¿Is it worth anything?


----------



## serg79_

Mateamargo said:


> So, ¿why are we argueing? ¿Who cares? ¿Is it worth anything?


Estoy de acuerdo y la verdad yo tampoco quería entrar en una discusión sobre esto, que no tiene que ver con el tema original del hilo.
Saludos.


----------



## Marias-espanol

Hola,
I am so sorry I did not want to start anything.  I was just simply stating the fact that I had some friends that were from Mexico.  I did say that I thought that some one from Mexico was called a Mexican.  They were two Different statements and they have nothing to do with each other. Yes I agree this is not what the thread started out to be.  So please lets end this thread.
Maria


----------



## Mate

I agree with Maria. This thread, with its ups and its downs and all, has run for too long. 

Un saludo a todos, y como dice el "Martín Fierro"

Mas naides se crea ofendido, 
pues a ninguno incomodo,
y si canto de este modo,
por encontrarlo oportuno,
no es para mal de ninguno
sino para bien de todos.

Si esto no es "Spanish heritage"...


----------



## Franra

DCPaco said:


> Okay, I think it's important to clarify that there is ethnicity, nationality, and self-identity. If you have all the nationalities you mentioned mixed into you, then you are trying to say "SOME of my ancestors came on the Mayflower." Perhaps some of my ancestors came on La Niña, La Pinta or the Santa María.
> 
> ALL of us who were born on this continent are AMERICAN! That's some of the problem, that the people of the United States (a country that really has no name) think that they are American and the rest of us are the "other". Well, that's United Statean Imperialism.
> 
> As for skin color: Sorry, but if you really believe that those check boxes are there to describe a physical trait, you are wrong. In Mexico (and it may be this way in other countries), we have MANY check boxes to select from to identify your skin color ("color de tez"). We do this because if you are trying to give an apt description of someone you want to know if they have any distinguishing features, traits, or marks. The United Statean check boxes, have White, Asian, Native American, Hispanic/Latino, etc. (Now, if you look there, White is the only color--all the others aren't colors, they are continentalities [neologism] or identities). What many people forget--especially "white Americans"--is that in the ancient Caucasian Maps Spain was part of that. If "Americans" do remember that, then they use it to identify ONLY the European people...but since you possibly "look white" despite what you just said are part Native-American, why are you not called Mestizo or why are you not checking off the Native-American box? The thing is that the United States has a history of hyphenating the people that it doesn't consider the norm: (African-American; Irish-American [this came from when the norm was White Anglo-Saxon Protestant]; Mexican-American; Latino-American. Do you notice that they're not saying: Italian-American, French-American? Now maybe at one point they did say Italian-American...but so many more fair-skinned Italians have come along and Americans don't necessarily marginalize them.
> 
> When you speak of your "Mexican" friends, you are speaking of people that were born in the country. I'm Mexican because I was born there. Why should I get offended? Thank you for loving us as Mexicans, but the statement is VERY patronizing.





Great post! Totally agree with you!

Veo que la conversación se ha enredado bastante, los ánimos se han caldeado, nos hemos salido de contexto y a diferencia de muchos de los que he leído aquí, a mí todo aquello me parece magnífico... Porqué??? Ciertamente no es debido a que sea una rebelde sin causa ni una trouble-maker, sino más bien porque como dice una frase de un espantoso programa de tv al que no quiero mencionar, esto es lo que sucede "when people stop being polite and start getting real." Y esa es una cualidad que yo , como buena "latina", "hispana" o como sea que quieran llamarme, aprecio desde el fondo de mi corazón. 
La gente suele pensar, equívocamente bajo mi modesto punto de vista, que ser asertivo, es lo mismo que ser agresivo. Decir la verdad no es malo. Ser directo es una gran cualidad que debe ser valorada en culturas tan plásticas y artificiales como la nuestra. En que momento dejamos que nuestros buenos modales, que debieran constituir sólo una mera forma, se apoderaran del fondo, el argumento de nuestras ideas? Yo no le tengo miedo a la confrontación. Enfrentarse a un argumento distinto no es pelear, es enriquecerse con el matiz, la diferencia de opinión. Ceo que en este topic se han dicho grandes verdades, muy subjetivas, si es cierto, tan subjetivas como cada uno de nosotros, pero no por eso menos menos valiosas. Y eso es algo que se produce al calor del debate, porque muchos ocultamos nuestros verdaderos pensamientos por temor a parecer poco amables, poco corteses, poco "ubicados". Paradójicamente,  la mayor parte del tiempo lo único que logramos es ser poco reales. El mundo ya tiene suficiente de mentira y falsedad, para que nosotros sigamos imitando un modelo, que ya sabemos hasta dónde nos ha llevado. Este hilo, en cambio, es una variopinta muestra de culturas, géneros y etnias expresandose con vehemencia, pero respeto, cosa que hasta ahora, nuestra sociedad no ha podido lograr.

Gracias por el espacio de expresión! Slds.


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## sneaksleep

Franra said:


> El mundo ya tiene suficiente de mentira y falsedad, para que nosotros sigamos imitando un modelo, que ya sabemos hasta dónde nos ha llevado. Este hilo, en cambio, es una variopinta muestra de culturas, géneros y etnias expresandose con vehemencia, pero respeto, cosa que hasta ahora, nuestra sociedad no ha podido lograr.
> 
> Gracias por el espacio de expresión! Slds.



Completamente de acuerdo!


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## ShikaChica3

When he used the word "trippin" it doesn't exactly mean having fun . . . His use of "trippin" meant that everyone on this particular thread were overthinking this or that the posters were just making a bigger deal out of something that can be very simple.  "Trippin" doesn't really mean to have fun, it usually means someone is overreacting or doing something unnecessary, maybe even "freaking out."


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## ShikaChica3

He means that everyone on the thread is freaking out, or making a big deal about something he sees as fairly simple and straightfoward.  It doesn't mean that everyone is having a lot of fun.  It's like if someone accidentally bumped into you at a store and you started crying, screaming, turning a little problem into a HUGE problem.  Then one could say that you are "trippin."


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