# Neapolitan: Chi chiagne, fotte a chi ride



## King Crimson

This is a funny popular neapolitan saying (literally _the one who cries, fucks over the one who's laughing_) meaning, more or less, that the one who is always moaning/complaining about something eventually gets more than the one living lightheartedly.
I was wondering whether there is an English saying close to it and the only one that came across my mind is "the squeaky chain gets the oil", though this is not so cynic as its italian counterpart.
Any other ideas?


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## pescara

Forse: he who laughs last, laughs best.  

Ciao.


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## rrose17

Wow! Do people actually say that? Pescara I think it's like _getting the last laugh_ but really twisted. _The squeaky wheel gets the greas_e is definitely not as cynical as the Italian and is often used as sound advice. It's like saying "tears always win" or something like that.


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## phiona

@pescara _he who laughs last, laughs best_ in italiano è: ride bene chi ride ultimo

@rrose "tears always win"  è questo il senso


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## rrose17

phiona said:


> @pescara _he who laughs last, laughs best_ in italiano è: ride bene chi ride ultimo
> 
> @rrose "tears always win"  è questo il senso


 Unfortunately this isn't an expression. I just made it up. I really can't think of any.


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## Curandera

I believe that _he who laughs last, laughs best_ is the equivalent in Italian of:

'Chi ride bene, ride ultimo', which is not exactly what the saying implies here.

We normally say: (the shortest version)

Chiagne e fotte/c'è chi chiagne e fotte = piange e fotte

The idea is that people who are always sorry about themselves and their lives, (acting as if they were the only ones who had to put up with real problems in life) in the end are those who get what they want as the others are more incline to be benevolent towards them.

So basically if you cry people will buy it and they will help you.


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## rrose17

We do say _alligator tears_, which are fake, to describe the tears of someone who uses their tears to manipulate others.


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## Blackman

rrose17 said:


> We do say _alligator tears_, which are fake, to describe the tears of someone who uses their tears to manipulate others.


 
_Lacrime di coccodrillo_ esiste anche in Italiano, ma si riferisce a qualcuno che si pente di qualcosa.


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## Einstein

Aha! _Alligator tears_ in America, _crocodile tears_ in Europe (we're nearer the Nile ).
I agree with *rrose17*'s interpretation.

As for _He who laughs last laughs best_, I've always known _He who laughs last laughs longest_. I don't know if that's an AE/BE difference.


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## rrose17

Einstein said:


> Aha! _Alligator tears_ in America, _crocodile tears_ in Europe (we're nearer the Nile ).
> .


 Actually we do say crocodile tears! It must be this freak snowstorm we're having that has me muddled.


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## You little ripper!

Einstein said:


> Aha! _Alligator tears_ in America, _crocodile tears_ in Europe (we're nearer the Nile ).
> I agree with *rrose17*'s interpretation.
> 
> As for _He who laughs last laughs best_, I've always known _He who laughs last laughs longest_. I don't know if that's an AE/BE difference.


In Australia we use the 'best' version, too. I've never heard the 'longest' version, but I think I prefer it.


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## Tellure

*[Discussioni riunite: il detto è diffuso in versioni leggermente diverse, ma è lo stesso]
[Threads merged: the idiom is the same, though it is known in slightly different versions]*

Salve WRF!

Come si potrebbe tradurre questa espressione in italiano?






Da Wikipedia:
L'espressione vernacolare napoletana* chiagni e fotti* (o chiagne e fotte[1]; in italiano: «*piangi e fotti*») è un volgarismo che costituisce una formula proverbiale della tradizione partenopea. Viene usata, di solito, per sottolineare e stigmatizzare un tipico atteggiamento umano, opportunista e ipocrita, esibito da alcune persone che sono solite indugiare in lamentazioni proprio in quei momenti in cui le cose, per loro, vanno a gonfie vele. L'espressione ha avuto diffusione anche al di fuori dell'originale alveo vernacolare, con una certa fortuna nel campo della comunicazione politica e giornalistica italiana.
Chiagni e fotti - Wikipedia

Non ho un tentativo di traduzione, purtroppo, sempre che esista in inglese un'espressione che possa adattarsi a questo contesto.

Qualche idea?

Grazie.


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## Paulfromitaly

Forse "cry-babying", ma ovviamente non ha la stessa portata semantica dell'italiano, soprattutto per la parte "fotti".


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## theartichoke

Based on this line in the article you link to, "playing the victim" is the closest I can think of, though it doesn't quite cover the "fotte" either: 

«[...] Berlusconi, cui nulla riesce tanto bene quanto la parte di vittima e perseguitato. «Chiagne e fotte» dicono a Napoli dei tipi come lui. E si prepara a farlo per cinque anni di seguito».

One thinks, for instance, of evangelical Christians in the USA and Canada painting themselves as a persecuted minority any time the government moves to grant equal rights to people they disapprove of.


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## italtrav

Is there any relation here to crying crocodile tears / piangere in cinese?
There is an illustration here of a crying crocodile holding a bag of money, which could be glossed as 'crying crocodile tears all the way to the bank."
Continuano altri esempi del chiagni e fotti

There is also the phrase, "wallowing in self-pity" as maybe a possible translation.


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## mcrasnich

italtrav said:


> Is there any relation here to crying crocodile tears / piangere in cinese?
> There is an illustration here of a crying crocodile holding a bag of money, which could be glossed as 'crying crocodile tears all the way to the bank."
> Continuano altri esempi del chiagni e fotti
> 
> There is also the phrase, "wallowing in self-pity" as maybe a possible translation.


_Lacrime di coccodrillo_ is also in Italian, with the same meaning - an insincere display of grief for a damage caused. _Wallowing in self-pity_, which I roughly translate as "stare lì ad autocommiserarsi", has no element of insincerity, only an unwillingness or inability to react (to pull oneself together, darsi una mossa).

Where I come from (Northern Italy) we say, "piangere il morto", to complain continuously about a minor or non existent (usual financial) difficulty. Sometimes it's completed as "piangere il morto per fregare il vivo", to complain etc in order to take advantage of the situation over others. It's the same as the Neapolitan chiagni e fotti.
What about _being a whinging hypocrite_? It's much less effective than the Neapolitan or the Italian, but I can't think of anything else.

All of this is of little help to the OP which I feel needs to come up with a completely different title.  Maybe she could go for something like "Businesses moan and groan to access government subsidies" but it may not be too clear.


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## london calling

theartichoke said:


> Based on this line in the article you link to, "playing the victim" is the closest I can think of.....


Yes, because in Naples 'chi chiagne fott a chi rire' (phonetic pronunciation) is said of people who are always crying /moaning about something. They 'fuck you over' in the sense that you might be perfectly content and along comes this pain in the arse and maybe makes you feel miserable with all their moaning.


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## Starless74

london calling said:


> They 'fuck you over' in the sense that you might be perfectly content and along comes this pain in the arse and maybe makes you feel miserable with all their moaning.


I've always thought _chiagni e fotti_ implied some kind of deceit (= _fottere_) after crying, as if to say such false crying disguises a bad intent.
But maybe it's just me.


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## london calling

Starless74 said:


> I've always thought _chiagni e fotti_ implied some kind of deceit (= _fottere_) after crying, as if to say such false crying disguises a bad intent.
> But maybe it's just me.


I wasn't talking about 'chiagni e fotti', which means something different. I suggest you re-read my post.

You say that about someone who moans when in fact everything is going just fine for them.


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## theartichoke

mcrasnich said:


> All of this is of little help to the OP which I feel needs to come up with a completely different title.  Maybe she could go for something like "Businesses moan and groan to access government subsidies" but it may not be too clear.



If this is actually what the article's about that Tellure's trying to translate the title for, then I think the suggestion (italtrav's in #15) of "Crying all the way to the bank" (no "crocodile tears" needed) would work well. It would put a new spin on the saying, which isn't normally about crying _in order to get _money, but it would be perfectly comprehensible in the new context, and catchy to boot.


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## mcrasnich

theartichoke said:


> If this is actually what the article's about that Tellure's trying to translate the title for, then I think the suggestion of "Crying all the way to the bank" (no "crocodile tears" needed) would work well. It would put a new spin on the saying, which isn't normally about crying _in order to get _money, but it would be perfectly comprehensible in the new context, and catchy to boot.


I think that works perfectly! 
CIG in the headline is Cassa Integrazione Guadagni, an emergency fund which large companies can use when they run into serious economic difficulties. In the Covid crisis access to the fund was exceptionally extended i_n deroga, _but according to the article 2600 conpanies applied that had no right to do so (they are the _furbi_ - that most untranslatable word- highlighted in red).


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

What do you think of "Tears drown out laughter"? (I've never heard it, it just occurred to me.)


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## Louisiana94

It sounds like the famous argument proposed by F. Nietzsche in _The Genealogy of Moral_: the so called "inversion of values", by which the good ones become "evil" because of the envy of the bad ones, who become "good".


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

""The squeaky wheel gets the grease" (if you complain loudly and long enough, people will give you what you want just to get you to shut up and go away) doesn't seem to be what K C was looking for. In the article's title "Crying all the way to the bank" is probably closest (and they are crocodile tears). I don't know if Liberace invented the expression, but he famously said "I cried all the way to the bank." in reply to being asked about how he felt when people criticized him for his prostituting his talent.

(I'm sure this is a big help to K C for their translation 11 years ago!    )


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