# To suddenly stop working (of an appliance)



## GandalfMB

Hello,
I have seen all these verbs "cut out, give out, break, die" used this way. For example: "Mom, the fridge just gave out/broke." or "The fridge is dead." I realize there are regional differences, but is it really that uncommon to use "break" in such contexts? "The toaster/washing machine/dishwasher broke." I have noticed that my friends from Essex tend to use "cut out" a lot, but it might be just them. I think "give out" is common, "...is dead" too, but what about break? It might be a little ambiguous. Basically, none of the appliance's parts might be broken, so the use of break is probably considered odd.



Thank you


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## Glasguensis

To break is perfectly normal in this context. It does not necessarily mean that a part is broken, merely that the appliance is not working, or not working correctly. "to cut out" or "to die" has a more specific meaning, meaning that the machine stopped doing anything at all. A washing machine which fails to do anything when you turn it on can be described as dead or broken. One which functions but leaks can still be described as broken.


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## GandalfMB

Break has a broader meaning, fine. Don't you use "give out" in BE? Do "to cut out" and "to die" have the same meaning then? The people I know seem to be using "cut out" all the time. I don't know why. Even more minor faults.


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## Glasguensis

To die and to give out mean the same thing - the machine stops working, as if they have died of old age. If you are using a cordless drill, for example, it will start turning slower and giving up more easily, before eventually it stops working altogether.

To cut out means to behave as if the current had suddenly been cut - this typically means that a fuse or thermal cut-out has engaged, or in the case of a vacuum cleaner that you have pulled the power cord out of the socket.

It is not uncommon for people to use these terms in situations which don't exactly fit the definitions I have given. I believe this comes about from copying what they hear without understanding the nuances. If you say that a whole group of people are using one term in preference to the others, this is almost certainly why.


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## GandalfMB

Glasguensis said:


> To die and to give out mean the same thing - the machine stops working, as if they have died of old age. If you are using a cordless drill, for example, it will start turning slower and giving up more easily, before eventually it stops working altogether.
> 
> To cut out means to behave as if the current had suddenly been cut - this typically means that a fuse or thermal cut-out has engaged, or in the case of a vacuum cleaner that you have pulled the power cord out of the socket.
> 
> It is not uncommon for people to use these terms in situations which don't exactly fit the definitions I have given. I believe this comes about from copying what they hear without understanding the nuances. If you say that a whole group of people are using one term in preference to the others, this is almost certainly why.



I agree. My ex said to her mother "Mom, the microwave just broke." I think that cut out fits this context much better. The microwave wasn't broken though. A part had to be replaced. Do you agree? It was working fine and it suddenly cut out (as if the current had been cut).


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## sound shift

GandalfMB said:


> Don't you use "give out" in BE?


In my experience, we don't. I certainly don't use it myself.


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## GandalfMB

sound shift said:


> In my experience, we don't. I certainly don't use it myself.



I have noticed that some of the Americans use it, or at least the ones I know. What do you use, sound shift?
Thank you for joining us


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## GandalfMB

Glasguensis said:


> To die and to give out mean the same thing - the machine stops working, as if they have died of old age. If you are using a cordless drill, for example, it will start turning slower and giving up more easily, before eventually it stops working altogether.
> 
> To cut out means to behave as if the current had suddenly been cut - this typically means that a fuse or thermal cut-out has engaged, or in the case of a vacuum cleaner that you have pulled the power cord out of the socket.
> 
> It is not uncommon for people to use these terms in situations which don't exactly fit the definitions I have given. I believe this comes about from copying what they hear without understanding the nuances. If you say that a whole group of people are using one term in preference to the others, this is almost certainly why.



Can "to break down" and "to cut out" be similar in a way? I turn something on, but after a few minutes it suddenly breaks down/cuts out. Is it correct to say that?


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## Glasguensis

Those are valid expressions. Note that I am an engineer - to me they mean slightly different things, but that's not necessarily how the general population would see it. (We've already discussed "to cut out" - "to break down" means to suffer some kind of mechanical failure)


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## london calling

_Give out_ meaning 'to stop working' is perfectly okay. See the MacMillan dictionary entry here for BE.. 

Just as an aside, if I were talking about a fridge or a car or something I might well say that it had 'given up the ghost' or that it had 'conked out'.


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## GandalfMB

london calling said:


> _Give out_ meaning 'to stop working' is perfectly okay. See the MacMillan dictionary entry here for BE..
> 
> Just as an aside, if I were talking about a fridge or a car or something I might well say that it had 'given up the ghost' or that it had 'conked out'.



Yes, I have heard people say that. As you have already pointed out, it refers to a major fault. If something conks out it, gives out, it dies, etc. Glasguensis has already pointed that out . Please, understand that I am not trying to annoy anyone by asking questions. And yes, Glasguensis, because you are an engineer your opinion is extremely valuable/appreciated. People, native or non-native speakers generalize all these verbs to the utmost degree. The difference varies with the regions, of course. I am surprised that "give out" sounds fine to you, london calling. I have had conversations with friends from England and I have spent a lot of time there, but nobody tends to use it. Not of the people I know. The US speakers use it, though .


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## london calling

If something gives out, it stops working. I don't know which part of the UK you're familiar with, Gandalf: I'm from London and I can assure you that it sounds perfectly normal to me.


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## variegatedfoliage

I associate _give out_ with something breaking under mechanical strain: the legs of a table bearing too much weight, a motor pushed beyond its limits, etc. It can also refer to a part or the whole of someone's body.


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## Parla

We tend to use "die" in such situations (even though whatever has gone wrong may not actually be fatal): "I was cleaning the carpet, and all of a sudden the vacuum cleaner died!"


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## GandalfMB

london calling said:


> If something gives out, it stops working. I don't know which part of the UK you're familiar with, Gandalf: I'm from London and I can assure you that it sounds perfectly normal to me.



Essex


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## london calling

variegatedfoliage said:


> I associate _give out_ with something breaking under mechanical strain: the legs of a table bearing too much weight, a motor pushed beyond its limits, etc. It can also refer to a part or the whole of someone's body.



It cam means that in BE too, although i would be more likely to say (for example) that the table legs gave way due to the strain. However, if you take a look at the link I provided above it says this, I quote:

2. [INTRANSITIVE] if something such as a machine or a part of your body gives out, it stops working
_His heart finally gave out under the strain.
_
Synonyms and related words
*To stop working (of a piece of equipment):**break down, go off, shut off, *


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## sound shift

If I'm speaking the moment something goes wrong: "Oh oh... The washing machine's stopped", "The television's not working", etc.

If I am reporting the incident later, after failing to revive the appliance: "The washing machine's gone wrong", "The television packed up yesterday" (apparently regional: I recall a US member saying in another thread, "This would not be understood"), "The washing machine's on the blink", etc.

I would not use "break" in either situation.


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## PaulQ

sound shift said:


> If I'm speaking the moment something goes wrong: "Oh oh... The washing machine's stopped", "The television's not working", etc.
> 
> If I am reporting the incident later, after failing to revive the appliance: "The washing machine's gone wrong", "The television packed up yesterday" (apparently regional: I recall a US member saying in another thread, "This would not be understood"), "The washing machine's on the blink", etc.
> 
> I would not use "break" in either situation.


As I was reading through the posts, I also saw this time element: 

*When it happens:* "It has stopped [working]." -> "John! What's wrong with the radio? It has stopped [working]?"
*When reporting it:* "It's gone wrong." -> "I wanted to listen to the radio but it has gone wrong/packed up/died, etc.
*Some time later* when remarking upon the item - "It's broken." -> A: "Is that old radio any good?" B: "No. I should throw it away - it is broken."

The verb seems to make a transition from *has *to *is *and thus *participle *to *adjective*. Accompanying this there seems to be the transition of verbs from those expressing a hope/possibility that the item is repairable to the acceptance that it is not. 

These two stages have their own words/phrases but there is overlap.


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## GandalfMB

sound shift said:


> If I'm speaking the moment something goes wrong: "Oh oh... The washing machine's stopped", "The television's not working", etc.
> 
> If I am reporting the incident later, after failing to revive the appliance: "The washing machine's gone wrong", "The television packed up yesterday" (apparently regional: I recall a US member saying in another thread, "This would not be understood"), "The washing machine's on the blink", etc.
> 
> I would not use "break" in either situation.



 Don't you ever use "to die" in such contexts, sound shift?


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## sound shift

I'm not sure if I do, Gandalf.


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## GandalfMB

It is surprising how it all varies with the region/country .


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## sound shift

I don't know. Are differences surprising?


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## GandalfMB

sound shift said:


> I don't know. Are differences surprising?



I think so. "Give out" and "Die" sound fine to some of the BE speakers, but not to others . That's what I am saying. I meant no disrespect.


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## sound shift

I didn't think you meant any disrespect. I was just interested to know why you find differences surprising.


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## GandalfMB

sound shift said:


> I didn't think you meant any disrespect. I was just interested to know why you find differences surprising.



One thing might sound okay in London, but because of it, I could be lynched somewhere else .


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## variegatedfoliage

GandalfMB said:


> Don't you ever use "to die" in such contexts, sound shift?



If something seems to have broken irreparably I might possibly say it died.


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## GandalfMB

variegatedfoliage said:


> If something seems to have broken irreparably I might possibly say it died.



If something has broken? Does that mean that you use "break" as in "The washing machine has broken" in your corner of the world? "Break" or "Break down", which would be your word of choice?


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## variegatedfoliage

GandalfMB said:


> If something has broken? Does that mean that you use "break" as in "The washing machine has broken" in your corner of the world? "Break" or "Break down", which would be your word of choice?



For machines, I would use _break down_ to mean a gradual process of wear that results in malfunction, for example, when your car stops working while you're out on the road: "The car broke down and we had to have it towed." For cars, you would always use _break down_, but for parts of the car you'd use _break_.

I don't think you can go wrong most of the time with just "something broke." It would just be the most generic way of saying it.


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## GandalfMB

variegatedfoliage said:


> For machines, I would use _break down_ to mean a gradual process of wear that results in malfunction, for example, when your car stops working while you're out on the road: "The car broke down and we had to have it towed." For cars, you would always use _break down_, but for parts of the car you'd use _break_.
> 
> I don't think you can go wrong most of the time with just "something broke." It would just be the most generic way of saying it.



Thank you. Break down is reserved for cars, yes.


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## sound shift

GandalfMB said:


> Thank you. Break down is reserved for cars, yes.


In my experience, this is not so.

I could not say, "The television broke", whether the picture disappeared a moment ago, yesterday or earlier.

All this confirms my belief that there is a lot of regional variation in this area of vocabulary.


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## GandalfMB

sound shift said:


> In my experience, this is not so.
> 
> I could not say, "The television broke", whether the picture disappeared a moment ago, yesterday or earlier.
> 
> All this confirms my belief that there is a lot of regional variation in this area of vocabulary.



Hello, sound shift,
I did not mean it was only used for cars. I should have said "It is very often used this way". As for "The TV broke," I don't know. It might be okay in some regions and unacceptable in others.


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## PaulQ

GandalfMB said:


> Don't you ever use "to die" in such contexts, sound shift?


I do. However, as sound shift and I originate in the East Midlands, but I have now live in the South for 30 years, and as you, GandalfMB, are in a neighbouring county to me, it may be that "The TV has died!" is more a southern expression.


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## GandalfMB

PaulQ said:


> I do. However, as sound shift and I originate in the East Midlands, but I have now live in the South for 30 years, and as you, GandalfMB, are in a neighbouring county to me, it may be that "The TV has died!" is more a southern expression.



Yes, I assume so. Unfortunately, I am not from Essex, Paul.


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## london calling

PaulQ said:


> ....it may be that "The TV has died!" is more a southern expression.


Not sure about that. I've never said it and I can't honestly remember ever having heard it.


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## PaulQ

GandalfMB said:


> Yes, I assume so. Unfortunately, I am not from Essex, Paul.


I don't see that as unfortunate,  but am I right in thinking that you are hearing your English in Essex or from an Essex source?


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## GandalfMB

PaulQ said:


> I don't see that as unfortunate,  but am I right in thinking that you are hearing your English in Essex or from an Essex source?



Not anymore. The so called Essex source broke up with me .


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## sound shift

london calling said:


> Not sure about that. I've never said it and I can't honestly remember ever having heard it.


I too have never said, and don't remember ever hearing, "The tv has died!" - and I have lived in various parts of England.


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## PaulQ

I'm somewhat surprised as it is entirely natural and unremarkable for me to say and hear "It's died on me." or "The <insert appliance> has died - buy a new one/I'll try and fix it."


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## london calling

If I say 'my mobile's dead' I mean the battery's flat, not that it isn't working because it's broken. If I were to hear someone say 'my mobile's died on me', I'm not sure how I would interpret it (Flat battery?/Broken?).


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## GandalfMB

london calling said:


> If I say 'my mobile's dead' I mean the battery's flat, not that it isn't working because it's broken. If I were to hear someone say 'my mobile's died on me', I'm not sure how I would interpret it (Flat battery?/Broken?).



Can we use "conk out" in connotation with phones?


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## london calling

GandalfMB said:


> Can we use "conk out" in connotation with phones?


I tend to associate that with mechanical breakdowns, but thinking about it it wouldn't sound that odd to me if I heard it.


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## GandalfMB

london calling said:


> I tend to associate that with mechanical breakdowns, but thinking about it it wouldn't sound that odd to me if I heard it.



I see. I think a car could conk out then, yes? A mechanical breakdown. Or other machines, not necessarily a car.


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## PaulQ

Conk out in relation to mechanical items seems somewhat dated. A quick look at Google Ngram (BE) and Google Books shows that the current use is "to fall asleep from exhaustion."


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## london calling

PaulQ said:


> Conk out in relation to mechanical items seems somewhat dated. A quick look at Google Ngram (BE) and Google Books shows that the current use is "to fall asleep from exhaustion."


I use it to mean that as well, but I would still say "the car conked out" (I'm obviously dated).


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