# you two



## Encolpius

You two... is wy dwaj or wy dwie in Polish. But does "wy" in that case mean "vosotros (sp.), ihr (de.) i.e. informal addressing, or you can use it towards people you would use panowie, panie (Spanish: Ustedes, German: Sie) as well? Briefly how would you translate the German "Sie beide", wy dwaj? Thanks.


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## wolfbm1

Hello Encolpius. 
"You two" can also mean "wy dwoje" to denote two people of different sex or two children.
"You two" can have different meaning depending on context. In this website it has a neutral meaning: *PAKIET SPA TYLKO WY DWOJE.
*It can have a negative meaning. Check this website. It is also an informal expression. 
Formal would be: 
obaj panowie, obydwaj panowie (2M)
obie panie. obydwie panie (2F)
and
oboje państwo (M + F, maried or not married)


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## Thomas1

Encolpius said:


> You two... is wy dwaj or wy dwie in Polish. But does "wy" in that case mean "vosotros (sp.), ihr (de.) i.e. informal addressing, or you can use it towards people you would use panowie, panie (Spanish: Ustedes, German: Sie) as well? Briefly how would you translate the German "Sie beide", wy dwaj? Thanks.


Hi,

this is a bit more complex in Polish, but 'you two' can be translated as 'wy dwoje', 'wy dwaj', 'wy dwie'. Here 'wy' is the equivalent of Spanish 'vosotros/vosotras' and German 'ihr'. We would usually use a workaround to express the idea, I guess probably due to the fact that the mentioned forms sound a bit like an order, though there are contexts in which I can imagine them being said and not have these connotations. So we could say for example: _Zróbcie xyz we dwóch/razem._ (Haced xyz juntos./Macht das zusammen.) But a teacher at school can say to the children: _Wy dwoje zróbcie xyz._ (Vosotros dos, haced xyz./Ihr beide, macht das.)

However, there is also a possibility to say: _Panowie, wy dwaj zróbicie xyz._ (Ustedes dos, hagan xyz./Sie beide, machen Sie xyz.)). This is a somewhat semi-(in)formal way of saying it. The formal way would be: _Panowie, proszę zrobić xyz razem/we dwóch._ (Hagan xyz, por favor./Machen Sie xyz, bitte.). Here, I can't think of another possibility than 'we dwóch'.


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## LilianaB

Encolpius said:


> You two... is wy dwaj or wy dwie in Polish. But does "wy" in that case mean "vosotros (sp.), ihr (de.) i.e. informal addressing, or you can use it towards people you would use panowie, panie (Spanish: Ustedes, German: Sie) as well? Briefly how would you translate the German "Sie beide", wy dwaj? Thanks.


 In standard Polish --literary, and according to most official protocols, you cannot use _Wy_, instead of _Pań/Pani/Państwo _in Polish. It is the only form to address people you don't know in many Polish dialects, or dialects from the Polish territory (from the Tatra Mountains for example, or Silesian).


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## BezierCurve

Just a brief note: "wy" meaning "you" *(singular!)* was used for addressing people formally in the past (along with verbs in plural form, but the noun (title, proper name) was in vocative). Even in 1980s you could still hear a police officer say to you:

A co wy tu, obywatelu, tak stoicie?


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## LilianaB

I think it was just the communist jargon. It was not used this way before 1945 in literary Polish. It could have been used this way in some regional dialects only.


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## Thomas1

This is what I used to think too, Liliana. However, it is older than that. I learnt the other day that this way of talking was once common amongst family members (my late great grandmother would adress her parents using the third person plural e.g.: mamo weźcie). I also remember Reymont used it in _The Peasants_:


> - A to, matko, dajcie mi pieniędzy, bo na zapowiedzi muszę zanieść.
> [...]
> - Całe pięć rubli mi dacie, bo i zmówiny trza wyprawić...
> [...]
> - Szymek, picie zanieś jałówce!
> 
> - Wynieście se sami, za dziewkę służył wama nie będę! - burknął hardo, rozpierając się na ławie jeszcze szerzej.
> 
> - Słyszałeś?! Nie doprowadzaj me do złości przy świętej niedzieli...
> 
> - Wyście też słyszeli, com rzekł: dajcie pieniędzy, a żywo!...
> [...]
> - Dyć was proszę; matko, dyć skamlę jak ten pies!...
> http://www.edukator.pl/Rozdzial-10,2547,offset,4,object,2157.html


If I remember well, Sienkiewicz also used such forms in his texts.


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## LilianaB

Unfortunately I did not meet my great grandparents -- I am not even sure which language they spoke -- some might have actually spoken Polish in addition to other languages. I think maybe it was more used in villages, and small communities. Do you think Sienkiewicz used it, or Mickiewicz? Raymont wrote mostly about the village -- they always used it this way, I think. It has probably only changed after 1945 that the language became more uniform for different communities and classes.


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## Encolpius

Thomas1 said:


> Hi, this is a bit more complex in Polish....



I'd say it is unique among all Slavic languages. I wonder why. But addressing people in many language has a long history. Interesting history. 
Thank your for the interesting answers. 
Is it possible to translate this Spanish sentences into Polish: Ustedes espaňoles son fabulosos???
I think Wy, Hiszpanie... is not quite correct. 
Thanks


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## Thomas1

LilianaB said:


> Unfortunately I did not meet my great  grandparents -- I am not even sure which language they spoke -- some  might have actually spoken Polish in addition to other languages. I  think maybe it was more used in villages, and small communities. Do you  think Sienkiewicz used it, or Mickiewicz? Raymont wrote mostly about the  village -- they always used it this way, I think. It has probably only  changed after 1945 that the language became more uniform for different  communities and classes.


As I mentioned in my previous post, I think Sienkiewicz also used such forms. I don't remember it from Mickiewicz, but you would have to look it up. I think you would come across it predominantly in the speech of people who were lower in the social hierarchy than the person they were talking to. 'Superiors' didn't need to worry about this so much.


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## Thomas1

Encolpius said:


> I'd say it is unique among all Slavic languages. I wonder why. But addressing people in many language has a long history. Interesting history.
> Thank your for the interesting answers.
> Is it possible to translate this Spanish sentences into Polish: Ustedes espaňoles son fabulosos???
> I think Wy, Hiszpanie... is not quite correct.
> Thanks


I think most likely we'd say:
_Hiszpanie są niezwykli._
or
_Wy Hiszpanie jesteście niezwykli._
or
_Państwo są/jesteście niezwykli._
Maybe you could say 'Państwo, Hiszpanie, jesteście niezwykli.', or 'Państwo, Hiszpanie, są niezwykli.', but it would be rather infrequent.


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## Encolpius

So the literal translation is rather impossible. Thanks.


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## LilianaB

Yes, I think "Hiszpanie są niezwykili" would be the most correct form. The form with _wy_ would be very unlikely in Polish.


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## BezierCurve

> However, it is older than that.



It could've originated from Pluralis Maiestatis in other languages. Do you remember "My, z Bożej Łaski Król Polski..."

But I never really checked that.


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## Thomas1

I don't remember as far back as that, Bezier.  However, I think you may be well on the mark. While writing one of my previous posts, some vocative phrases with the verb in the second person plural to a monarch crossed my mind, but I thought I might imagine things, now this looks probable.

EDIT: there is something interesting about it, though:





> Niemogąc wykonać rozkazu Waszej Krolewskiej  Mości, który mi nie dawno jeszcze ponowił Pan Watzdorf, abym koniecznie  zaniechał interesu kurlandz- kiego, nie pozostaje mi tylko najpokor-  niej i na klęczkach błagać Waszą Krolewską Mość, aby źle nie oceniała tego, co zrobiłem przez czystą niewiedzę".
> Source (page: 99)


And also: 





> Ośmielam się błagać Waszą Królewską Mość, aby źle nie oceniała tego, co zrobiłem przez czystą niewiedzę
> Source


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## BezierCurve

... and I think there was an expression like "Wasze" meaning singular "you", probably a contraction of that.


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## LilianaB

I think it amounted to talking to the King in the third person. That could have come from Latin perhaps. Some of the kings did not speak Polish that well.


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## Thomas1

BezierCurve said:


> ... and I think there was an expression like "Wasze" meaning singular "you", probably a contraction of that.


What comes to my mind is 'wasze' as in: 'to jest wasze, to jest nasze'. But that's not this. Could you please elaborate?



LilianaB said:


> I think it amounted to talking to the King in the third person. That could have come from Latin perhaps. Some of the kings did not speak Polish that well.


Or it could have been a general tendency in some European languages.

Another interesting thing on the second person plural:


> ^Spieszcie -się Miłościwy Panie« zawołał  ^spieszcie się , bo Pan Starosta już wraca; przyjechał pokojowiec jego i  powiada, że go niedaleko zostawił, a jak on wróci, to trudno i myszy  wyśliznąć się z Czorsztyna bez wiedzy pana, albo pana bez wiedzy pana, albo pana marszałka. Zegnajcie się prędko Miłościwy Panie [...]
> Source


I think would require extensive research to see the evolution of verbal forms used with 'wy'.


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## BezierCurve

> Could you please elaborate?



Found it by "Waszeć"  :

http://pl.wikisource.org/wiki/Encyklopedia_staropolska/Waszeć

EDIT: "Asińdziej" reminded me of "asan", yet another form (a term popular in ROZRYWKA crosswords, at least some years ago).


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## Thomas1

Thank you, this is interesting.  

PS: there's another form of 'asan': 'acan' (unless you already knew it).


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## ChipMacShmon

Encolpius said:


> Ustedes espaňoles son fabulosos???
> I think Wy, Hiszpanie... is not quite correct.



The most literal translations that come to my mind, that I possibly could use, are:

_Panowie Hiszpanie, jesteście niezwykli._ or _Panowie Hiszpanie! Jesteście niezwykli._(males)
_Panie Hiszpanki, jesteście niezwykłe._ or _Panie Hiszpanki! Jesteście niezwykłe. _(females)
_Panowie i Panie Hiszpanie, jesteście niezwykli. _or _Panowie i Panie Hiszpanie!_ _Jesteście niezwykli. _(the closest one, mixed group)

To my ears it sounds a little better than: _Państwo Hiszpanie, jesteście niezwykli.
_
_Hiszpanie są niezwykli_ for me is too general. The phrase that I would use when speaking to a group of Spaniards would rather be _Hiszpanie jesteście niezwykli_. For me it sounds more personal, more concentrated on that specific group.


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