# Urdu, Hindi, Punjabi: "He is just spineless"



## Qureshpor

"Spineless", quite apt in my view, describes a person who stands on the fence but does not commit himself/herself one way or another. One can not rely on such a person in time of need for backing, especially for one's point of view or cause even though one would expect such backing from this person. How would you express this kind of person in your language?


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## UrduMedium

Urdu: kam-himmat, naa-qaabil-i-ai3tibaar/bharosa


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## greatbear

_naamard_. No better expression in Hindi for such a person.


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## Alfaaz

QURESHPOR said:
			
		

> How would you express this kind of person in your language?


These could be some possibilities (depending on the specific context/person): مذبذب ، متزلزل ، غیر مستقل (مزاج) ، کمزور ، بزدل ، غیر جانب دار ناظر/ ناظرہ (muzabzab, mutazalzal, ghair mustaqil (mizaaj), kamzor, buzdil, ghair jaanibdaar naazir/naazirah)

Question: GT gives متخاذلة (apart from ضعيف الشخصية) for Arabic. Does Urdu use this or a related word?
 خَذَل is listed here and seems partially similar to your description _"stands on the fence but does not commit himself/herself one way or another"_: مدد و یاری نہ کرنا، چھوٹ کر الگ ہو جانا، مدد چھوڑنا، ذلیل کرنا۔  (madad-o-yaari nah karnaa, chhooT kar alag ho jaanaa, madad choRnaa, zaleel karnaa)


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> _naamard_. No better expression in Hindi for such a person.


Only applicable to  a male, not a female.


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Only applicable to  a male, not a female.



Because when "spineless" is applied to a woman, then it means something else rather: someone who is led/subjugated easily, who does not have the guts to stand up on her own feet in this (male-dominated) world. Which is not what QP asked for: he is searching for someone who is someone unreliable, who could back off when you need him.
Here are a couple of links for you to know what "spineless" means in woman terms: http://aloftyexistence.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/do-men-like-strong-women/ and http://www.codeislove.net/2012_05_01_archive.html (search for "spineless"). Note that "spineless" for the woman could also mean the same thing in sex play.

Back to the original post now: One can also use here someone being a "loTaa", though this expression is also used for those people who keep dithering over between both (or all, if more than two) parties. But here as well it could work.


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## marrish

greatbear said:


> Because when "spineless" is applied to a woman, then it means something else rather: someone who is led/subjugated easily, who does not have the guts to stand up on her own feet in this (male-dominated) world. Which is not what QP asked for: he is searching for someone who is someone unreliable, who could back off when you need him.
> Here are a couple of links for you to know what "spineless" means in woman terms: http://aloftyexistence.wordpress.com/2011/06/22/do-men-like-strong-women/ and http://www.codeislove.net/2012_05_01_archive.html (search for "spineless"). Note that "spineless" for the woman could also mean the same thing in sex play.
> 
> Back to the original post now: One can also use here someone being a "loTaa", though this expression is also used for those people who keep dithering over between both (or all, if more than two) parties. But here as well it could work.


My opinion is that someone can be spineless, without sex differentiation.


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## greatbear

Well, marrish, you're always welcome to your opinions  Of course, someone can be spineless without sex differentiation (and literally, too), but the issue is what the other person will infer: if you think the other person will get the same idea, you can continue to think so, it doesn't matter to me in the least.


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## marrish

You'd be better off to discuss it further in the English only forum, if you wish, and I can join you there if you really want to discuss my opinion. If not, consider it the last thing I said on this subject.


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## Faylasoof

Spineless in the meaning of: weak, coward = lacking guts, etc. 

In Urdu we can have: weak = کمزور  _kamzor_;  coward = بزدل _buzdil_ /  بے ہمت _be-himmat_; 

While نامرد _naamard _is used to mean ہجڑا हिजड़ा _hijRaa_ (= eunuch, unmanly, cowardly). Also, طواشی  _Tawaashii_; زنخا _zanxaa_ / زنخه _zanxah_. 

It should be obvious that we can’t really use _naamard_ for a woman even when we wish to mean _spineless / coward_ ! … and please don’t tell me that in Hindi all of a sudden this has come to be so because I know this wouldn’t be correct usage. 

Of course we all know that in the way it is meant,  بے ریڑھ _be-reeRh_ = spineless, is just not on either!!

_He is just spineless

woh maHDh (maHiDh) buzdil / kamzor / be-himmat hai

woh maHDh (maHiDh) naamard hai <- _OK for a man but not a woman!!_

woh maHdh (maHiDh) be-riiRh hai <- _This should be taken merely in good humour!


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## JaiHind

QURESHPOR said:


> "Spineless", quite apt in my view, describes a person who stands on the fence but does not commit himself/herself one way or another.



This may be wrong meaning of the term. What you are describing is called a "confused" or "indecisive" person. भ्रमित or better, दुविधाग्रस्त in Hindi. 



QURESHPOR said:


> One can not rely on such a person in time of need for backing, especially for one's point of view or cause even though one would expect such backing from this person.



This may again be wrong meaning of the term. What you are describing is called  a "distrustful" or "unreliable" person. It is called अविश्वासी in  Hindi.



QURESHPOR said:


> How would you express this kind of person in your language?



I hope you have got the answer. Because you were not literally trying to translate "Spineless" into Hindi/other languages, but you were interested to describe such a person in those languages. So you can make a pick from भ्रमित, दुविधाग्रस्त, and अविश्वासी in Hindi.


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## JaiHind

greatbear said:


> _naamard_. No better expression in Hindi for such a person.



Yes, literally, this is a good translation of the term. 

Or I will give "रीढ़विहीन". 

I can even quote examples from daily newspaper:



> तृणमूल कांग्रेस की अध्यक्ष एवं पश्चिम बंगाल की  मुख्यमंत्री ममता बनर्जी ने शनिवार को सोशल नेटवर्किग साइट, फेसबुक पर कहा  है कि देश में _रीढ़ विहीन_ नेताओं की संख्या बढ़ती जा रही है।
> 
> http://www.jagran.com/news/national...t-spines-says-mamata-on-facebook-9444723.html



Others: 



> आखिर क्यों लिया _रीढ़ विहीन_ कांग्रेस *...*
> 
> नपुंसक, निर्लज्ज व _रीढ़विहीन_ बौद्धिक लम्पट
> 
> '_रीढ़ विहीन_ लोगों का समूह है बीसीसीआई' : MeriKhabar
> 
> मैथिल मिथिला मैथिली: _रीढ़ विहीन_ पुरुष


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## Qureshpor

^ javaab ke liye shukriyah. ho saktaa hai kih maiN "spineless" ke ma3nii Thiik tarH nahiiN samajh paayaa huuN lekin yaqiin maaniye maiN baRii aasaanii se aise logoN kii pahchaan kar saktaa huuN.


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## marrish

marrish said:


> My opinion is that someone can be spineless, without sex differentiation.





greatbear said:


> Well, marrish, you're always welcome to your opinions  Of course, someone can be spineless without sex differentiation (and literally, too), but the issue is what the other person will infer: if you think the other person will get the same idea, you can continue to think so, it doesn't matter to me in the least.





marrish said:


> You'd be better off to discuss it further in the English only forum, if you wish, and I can join you there if you really want to discuss my opinion. If not, consider it the last thing I said on this subject.



Here is the link to the English Only thread:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2498571


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## Qureshpor

UrduMedium said:


> Urdu: kam-himmat, naa-qaabil-i-ai3tibaar/bharosa


UM SaaHib. Thank you. I think "kam-himmat" probably fits the bill but the concept that I have in mind is possibly a combination of lack of courage and unreliability. I don't know if there is such a word in existence. I asked someone else and they suggested "be-Ghairat" but this, at least in the daily language, has other connotations.


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## nineth

avishvasaneeya (अविश्वसनीय) - someone you can't rely/depend on or believe in.


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## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> These could be some possibilities (depending on the specific context/person): مذبذب ، متزلزل ، غیر مستقل (مزاج) ، کمزور ، بزدل ، غیر جانب دار ناظر/ ناظرہ (muzabzab, mutazalzal, ghair mustaqil (mizaaj), kamzor, buzdil, ghair jaanibdaar naazir/naazirah)
> 
> Question: GT gives متخاذلة (apart from ضعيف الشخصية) for Arabic. Does Urdu use this or a related word?
> خَذَل is listed here and seems partially similar to your description _"stands on the fence but does not commit himself/herself one way or another"_: مدد و یاری نہ کرنا، چھوٹ کر الگ ہو جانا، مدد چھوڑنا، ذلیل کرنا۔  (madad-o-yaari nah karnaa, chhooT kar alag ho jaanaa, madad choRnaa, zaleel karnaa)


Thank you for your comprehensive reply, as is your norm.Your list contains words which have component parts of the type of person I have in mind but none presents the complete picture, unfortunately. I have n't come across xazl in Urdu. Is it common?


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## greatbear

nineth said:


> avishvasaneeya (अविश्वसनीय) - someone you can't rely/depend on or believe in.



Doesn't that mean "incredible"?


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## nineth

greatbear said:


> Doesn't that mean "incredible"?



Yes, it can also mean that. I think it depends on whether the noun being modified is a person or a thing. The meaning I put is assuming it's for a person - in which case it fits what we want here.


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## greatbear

OK, thanks; I was unaware that it could also mean unreliable.


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## nineth

greatbear said:


> OK, thanks; I was unaware that it could also mean unreliable.



Yes, since believe, trust, and rely are all connected, when you say that a person or information is incredible, all of them apply. vishvaas will have a similar implication.


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## greatbear

nineth said:


> Yes, since believe, trust, and rely are all connected, when you say that a person or information is incredible, all of them apply. vishvaas will have a similar implication.



Well, in English, incredible has usually a positive sense when applied to a person; the only time it has a negative sense is when someone is making "incredible" claims.


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## nineth

greatbear said:


> Well, in English, incredible has usually a positive sense when applied to a person; the only time it has a negative sense is when someone is making "incredible" claims.



Right, I agree; I sort of confused "not credible" with incredible, and their usage differs as we know. avishvasiniiya vyakti would map to "not credible person" for me.


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## greatbear

From the "spineless" thread on the English forum and from another thread run by me with some fellow English language professionals on a private network, "spineless" does come across as a gender-independent word. So my apologies for thinking of a gender-dependent nuance which does not exist to all concerned. I haven't been happy with "buzdil" as that means directly a coward according to me, so I don't have any idea so far what would be a good word that could apply to all spineless people, regardless of gender, as I personally haven't liked any suggestions so far made (except "riDh-vihiin", but that is too literal and too much of a mouthful for me).


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## marrish

nineth said:


> avishvasaneeya (अविश्वसनीय) - someone you can't rely/depend on or believe in.


Can you tell me whether the syllable shva is a short one or was it a typo?


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> Can you tell me whether the syllable shva is a short one or was it a typo?



I don't see any typo.


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## nineth

marrish said:


> Can you tell me whether the syllable shva is a short one or was it a typo?



The 'sh' is a half 'sha'; the 'va' is a full one (but not vaa).


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## marrish

JaiHind said:


> ... अविश्वासी in  Hindi...





nineth said:


> The 'sh' is a half 'sha'; the 'va' is a full one (but not vaa).


I'm asking because in post#11 there is -vaa-.


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> I'm asking because in post#11 there is -vaa-.



That "vaa" is also correct.


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## greatbear

More about "spineless" in English as applied to a woman, as there is also a minority of native English speakers who like me can't see "spineless" being applied to a woman. Here's a sample response from a native US speaker, whose daily business is to be concerned about and fix English usages:

_I don't see "spineless" as gender independent. I definitely think of it as being used more as a cut toward men than toward women. If I was speaking of a "spineless" woman, I would probably say that she needed to grow some balls (if I was speaking offensively in that manner) or she's wishy washy or I didn't trust her, but I just wouldn't call her spineless.
_
The whole thread is unfortunately a private thread meant for language professionals, so members here can't have access.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> Here is the link to the English Only thread:
> 
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2498571



Thank you for providing the link. It appears that the views of people on both sides of Atlantic are that the word can be used for both males and females. Here is a quote taken from the Online Slang Dictionary (American, English and Urban Slang)

http://onlineslangdictionary.com/meaning-definition-of/spineless

Spineless

Not having the courage to say something, not standing up for yourself, not having the courage to say no.

"She should've said something and not be so spineless".

Being a person who has lived four fifths of his life amongst the English (in England), I can tell you that the word is equally applicable to both genders.


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## greatbear

No; there is a majority that is of that opinion, but a sizeable minority is also not of that opinion: in short, the usage of "spineless" to a woman is far from unanimous. See post 30. As for living in England among the English, that does not mean anything: I have met far too many native English people who can't even spell properly.


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## marrish

On the other hand English learners may be well aware of spelling intricacies but most frequently make wrong word choice and can't speak the language properly.


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## greatbear

marrish said:


> On the other hand English learners may be well aware of spelling intricacies but most frequently make wrong word choice and can't speak the language properly.



Of course, many English learners would make not just wrong word choices but also spelling mistakes. Who's the English learner though, here; I don't see your point.


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## urdupoetree

having lack of decision power...


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## greatbear

urdupoetree said:


> having lack of decision power...



How would you differentiate it then from irresolute, urdupoetree? Welcome to the forum, and anyway the thread's about Urdu/Hindi/Punjabi, not English, so if you could suggest a word or two in those, it would help more...


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