# collective noun



## Ali.h

Is (بَطّ) (duck) a collective noun, and (بَطَّة) is its singular?

Also:

Is (رِيْش) (feather) a collective noun, and (رِيْشَة) is its singular?

Is (نَعام) (ostrich) a collective noun, and (نَعَامَة) is its singular?

Is the word (طَباشِير) a collective noun?

Are (نَبْت) and (نَبات) both considered collective nouns?


----------



## Outlandish

Please explain how do you consider them collective nouns because I find them regular plurals like رجل pl رجال, or كتاب pl كتب. What is the exact difference between collective nouns and plurals? maybe there is something which I'm missing.


----------



## Ali.h

As you know a "collective noun" denotes a group of things in general. A "unit noun" denotes a single specimen of that group. For example سمك is a collective noun referring to "fish" in general, and سمكة is a unit noun referring to "one fish."


----------



## Tasneemspring

In this case, what you've said is right.


----------



## Ali.h

What you mean? You mean that the nouns i mentioned in my first post are all indeed collective nouns?


----------



## ajami

Ali.h said:


> As you know a "collective noun" denotes a group of things in general. A "unit noun" denotes a single specimen of that group. For example سمك is a collective noun referring to "fish" in general, and سمكة is a unit noun referring to "one fish."


For example سمك is a collective noun.NO its not.

"samak" is a common noun which indicate any fish while "as samak"is the noun for "jins samak".

e.g of collective nouns........ herd,flock,class,troop,tribe,nation etc etc.the noun whic is coined for many units but one word is used for it.


----------



## Ali.h

Are you saying that we could only call samak a collective noun if it has the definite article affixed to it? and the same rule applies for the rest of collective nouns as well (the defintie artile has to be attached)?


----------



## ajami

I think you understood the meaning of collective nouns by the above mentioned examples.

Shoal/school is the collective noun for fish. By putting "AL" before "samak" you will only get its "ألجنس" (its class in GENERAL in which, an individual fish is not cosidered) still it's not a collective noun.

Collective nouns are those which are used for the groups (include many units of that noun BUT NOT ALL while  "ألجنس " talks about the whole class as a unit (without being units in consideration).

JazakALLAH khayr.


----------



## Ali.h

ajami said:


> For example سمك is a collective noun.NO its not.
> 
> "samak" is a common noun which
> indicate any fish while "as samak"is the noun for "jins samak".


But Hans Wehr says its a collective noun! If there's another dictionary that states this is not a collective noun please let me know.


----------



## ajami

You are right hans wehr mention it as a coll:n and gives its sing, samkatun.Could you plz consult "ALMUNJID" and  Ibn manzoor "lisanu arab" (very famous arabic dictionaries).


----------



## ajami

this is link for the dictionaries.

http://www.baheth.info/index.jsp


----------



## Outlandish

I thought that collective nouns are only those which denote a number of entities in a singular word which may be multiplied later; when referring to a  singular entity of them we will use a word which is not from the same root of the collective noun (مفرده ليس من لفظه (اسم جمع . For example:

جيش of which a single unit is جندى ; pl جيوش
فريق of which a single unit is لاعب ; pl فرق
قطيع of which a single unit is حيوان ; pl قطعان


The same in English:
army of which a single unit is soldier; pl. armies
herd of which a single unit is animal; pl. herds, etc


But I read this definition of collective Arabic nouns and it is new to me:



> irregular        (broken) plural nouns are grammatically singular nouns that  refer to        plural units or to large amounts of uncountable objects.


If collective Arabic nouns are simply words of which the plural is broken plurals صيغ جمع شاذة so your words are in deed collective nouns, but if it is not that simple, I guess then that these are basically only (broken) plurals. Collective nouns which I know are like, فصل، جيش ، قطيع، فريق .


----------



## Trella-man

Guys I post here cause it's not yet clear, for me, the difference of meaning between plural and collective noun.
For example شجر is the collective for شجرة, that means tree; the plural of شجرة is أشجار , which I think means trees.
The point now is: what does شجر means?


----------



## AndyRoo

Trella-man said:


> The point now is: what does شجر means?


 
شجر is the collective noun for tree....

e.g. علم الشجر = the science of trees (dendrology). Here, trees = trees as a species, not a specific group of trees.

The collective noun could also be used in phrases like لحم الغنم = lamb (meat)

or أحب التفاح =I like apples.


----------



## Trella-man

Hmm, I think I understand (I can't find a reason for not using the plural also in this case, but ok...).
شكرًا


----------



## Mahaodeh

Just a note on the first post. طباشير is not a collective noun, it is an irregular noun (جمع تكسير) for which the singular is طبشور and طبشورة.


----------



## Ali Smith

AndyRoo said:


> شجر is the collective noun for tree....
> 
> e.g. علم الشجر = the science of trees (dendrology). Here, trees = trees as a species, not a specific group of trees.
> 
> The collective noun could also be used in phrases like لحم الغنم = lamb (meat)
> 
> or أحب التفاح =I like apples.


So, when you want to say you like something in general without referring to specific instances of it do you use the collective noun? For example,

I like pearls. = أحب اللؤلؤ, not أحب الؤلؤة or أحب اللآلي

I like trees. = أحب الشجر, not أحب الشجرة or أحب الأشجار or أحب الشجرات

I like fish. = أحب السمك, not أحب السمكة or أحب الأسماك or أحب السمكات

I like pearls. = أحب الدُّرّ, not أحب الدُّرَّة or أحب الدُّرَر or أحب الدُّرّات

I like bricks. = أحب اللَبِن, not أحب اللَبِنَة or أحب اللبنات

I like pigeons. = أحب الحمام

I like sheep and goats. = أحب الشاء

I like cows. = أحب البقر

I like dates. = أحب التمر

I like clouds. = أحب السحاب


----------



## zrangoonwala

So, when you remove the taa marboota from the end of a word, you get the collective noun (ism jins)?


----------



## Mahaodeh

No, the rule is in fact the opposite, but not for all types of collective nouns. Removing تاء التأنيث mostly just makes a noun masculine (example: شابّة وشاب أرنبة وأرنب).

In the case of اسم الجنس الجمعي, it refers to a general collective in the singular such as شجر وتمر ونحل. To refer to a single member of this collective you add تاء التأنيث المربوطة, so they become: شجرة وتمرة ونحلة. The exception is when the collective noun refers to a group of people such as عرب وعجم وروم وكرد وغيرهم in which case ياء النسبة is used so they become عربي وعجمي وكردي ورومي. 

In the case of اسم الجنس الافرادي, it’s pretty much treated like an uncountable noun and you can’t refer to a single member. Examples include: ماء وريح ونار وعسل, all these do not have a single member to refer to. Note that not all uncountable nouns in English become اسم جنس افرادي, for example الرمل والسكر in Arabic do have single members so it’s اسم جنس جمعي and the single member is رملة وسكرة.

As for اسم الجنس الأحادي, it’s just an ordinary singular except that it refers to a *generic single member* of a larger group such as رجل وأسد. Since it’s already a single member then you don’t really have a “single member” for it. Adding تاء التأنيث المربوطة to it only turns it feminine and in most cases it doesn’t even make sense. Grammatically this is just a regular singular and it’s only اسم جنس because it refers to a جنس as opposed to a علم.

While in English اسم الجنس is usually called collective noun, technically the two terms are not identical and only the first is actually a collective.


----------



## zj73

zrangoonwala said:


> So, when you remove the taa marboota from the end of a word, you get the collective noun (ism jins)?


Sometimes. Like شجر and سمك.


----------



## Mahaodeh

zj73 said:


> Sometimes. Like شجر and سمك.


Wow, did you completely skip my post?


----------

