# Prepositions and case



## eni8ma

I've been compiling a list of prepositions and the cases they use. Mercifully, most seem to belong to just one case. 

There are a few that are used for more than one case, namely:
с (со) - родительный, винительный, творительный
за - винительный, творительный 
под (подо) - винительный, творительный 
по - дательный, винительный, предложный
в (во) - винительный, предложный
на - винительный, предложный
о (об, обо) - винительный, предложный

Is that all that belong with more than one case?

Also, there is one that I cannot seem to find the case for:
превыше - above, over, in excess of

I suppose it belongs with the Genitive case, like most of the others?


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> Also, there is one that I cannot seem to find the case for:
> превыше - above, over, in excess of
> 
> I suppose it belongs with the Genitive case, like most of the others?



Превыше - is bot a prep, it's an adverb, a comparative one.
Yes it commands Gen. typically.


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## eni8ma

morzh said:


> Превыше - is not a prep, it's an adverb, a comparative one.
> Yes it commands Gen. typically.



I see what you mean; it does have the construction of an adverb - in wiktionary, it is listed as a preposition.  I guess I should not put too much trust in wiktionary.org 

So ... the adverbs have cases, too??  I know that nouns and adjectives must be declined for case and number, that the prepositions all belong to one case or another, and some verbs use a particular case as well.  Now adverbs as well? or only some of them?


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## Natalisha

eni8ma said:


> So ... the adverbs have cases, too??  I know that nouns and adjectives must be declined for case and number, that the prepositions all belong to one case or another, and some verbs use a particular case as well.  Now adverbs as well? or only some of them?



No, of course, not.


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## eni8ma

It's just that Morzh said превыше commands Gen. typically, and is an adverb.

I realise that adverbs are not declined, and that they modify verbs.  I was just asking  for clarification of Morzh's comment.


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> It's just that Morzh said превыше commands Gen. typically, and is an adverb.
> 
> I realise that adverbs are not declined, and that they modify verbs.  I was just asking  for clarification of Morzh's comment.



I am no linguist so I may use wrong terminology.

Let me put it this way:

1. Превыше is an adverb.
2. It may be used, as a dictionary says, "in place of a preposition".
3. As such, "Превыше" is always used with an object, and the object is always in Genitive.




*Новый толково-словообразовательный словарь русского языка. Автор Т. Ф. Ефремова.*
*превыше*  нареч.  1) устар. Гораздо выше кого-л., чего-л.  2) перен. Намного выше по своим качествам, проявлению.​*Орфографический словарь*
*превыше*  прев`ыше (чего)​*Толковый словарь под ред. C. И. Ожегова и Н.Ю.Шведовой*
*ПРЕВЫШЕ* (устар. и  высок.).  1. нареч.   Выше,  сильнее,  важнее чего-н.Лететь п. гор. Верность присяге п. жизни.  2. кого-чего,  в знач.  предлога срод.  п. Выше, превышая,  превосходя   кого-что-н. Сопротивление  п.  сил.  *Превыше всего (высок.) - самое  главное, самое важное.​*Толковый словарь русского языка под ред. Д. Н. Ушакова*
*ПРЕВЫШЕ*  нареч. (книжн. устар). Намного  выше, гораздо выше. Превыше туч, покинув горы. Фет. Превыше всего  (книжн. ритор.) - больше всего.​


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## Natalisha

eni8ma said:


> It's just that Morzh said превыше commands Gen. typically, and is an adverb.
> 
> I realise that adverbs are not declined, and that they modify verbs.  I was just asking  for clarification of Morzh's comment.


Oh, I see. See Morzh's explanation, it's brilliant.
Actually, I was answering  this question: 



eni8ma said:


> So ... the adverbs have cases, too??


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## eni8ma

Еще раз спасибо, морж
(I hope that's the right phrase  Be kind to me; I am still a beginner)


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## eni8ma

@Natalisha

Yes, but the reason I asked that in the first place was in response to what морж had said, which I quoted in that post.  
So now that морж has explained further, it is all settled.


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## morzh

eni8ma said:


> Еще раз спасибо, морж
> (I hope that's the right phrase  Be kind to me; I am still a beginner)



It is a right phrase.

As for the cases, in Russian only these parts of speech have cases:

1. Nouns.
2. Pronouns.
3. Adjectives. (and adjectival participles).
4. Numerals.


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## eni8ma

The point is, though, that prepositions use particular cases.  The preposition itself does not change, but we have to use a particular case with each preposition.  Also, particular cases must be used with some verbs (the verb doesn't change for the case, but the words after the verb must be in that case)

When you mentioned adverbs, I had been wondering whether for adverbs, there was also some matching of case involved.  I phrased it badly before.

I am guessing that what was meant was that Превыше is both an adverb and a preposition.  When it is used as a preposition, the associated object must be in the genitive; but when it is used as an adverb, no associated case matching is involved.

It's just the way it came out originally that threw me off.

All sorted now


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## Natalisha

eni8ma said:


> @Natalisha
> 
> Yes, but the reason I asked that in the first place was in response to what морж had said, which I quoted in that post.


I'm sorry, I wasn't attentive enough. Your two question marks (=your surprise?) distracted my attention from the rest of the text and I concentrated on your "??" question.  Sorry.


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## Natalisha

eni8ma said:


> The point is, though, that prepositions use particular cases.  The preposition itself does not change, but we have to use a particular case with each preposition.  Also, particular cases must be used with some verbs (the verb doesn't change for the case, but the words after the verb must be in that case)


And it is called "управление" in Russian.


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## eni8ma

Natalisha said:


> Your two question marks (=your surprise?) distracted my attention from the rest of the text and I concentrated on your "??" question.



Yeah, I was a bit put out to think there were yet more instances where I had to watch what case I was using 

I have made this list of prepositions so that I can get them all sorted and have a quick reference handy.

Any comments on the list of prepositions that are used with more than one case? I looked up various lists, and compiled them all into one single list, so I hope it is fairly accurate now.



eni8ma said:


> There are a few that are used for more than one case, namely:
> с (со) - род, вин, твор
> за - вин, твор
> под (подо) - вин, твор
> по - дат, вин, пред
> в (во) - вин, пред
> на - вин, пред
> о (об, обо) - вин, пред
> 
> Is that all that belong with more than one case?


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## kloie

Which case takes the most prepositions?


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## morzh

How's that important? Plus someone has to count them to answer you.


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## eni8ma

kloie said:


> Which case takes the most prepositions?


Genitive - hands down.

So far, I have counted:
Prep - 1 + 4 shared with Acc
Dat -7 + 1 shared with Acc
Instr - 5 + 3 shared with Acc
Gen - 47! + 1 shared with Acc
Acc - 8 + 7 shared

All the preps that are have more than one case are Acc.

It seems that it would be easiest to learn all the ones that are _not_ Genitive, then anything else goes into Genitive 

Anyhow, for now, I am focusing on those that have multiple cases (the 7 listed above), since they seem to be more commonly used, those that are used for verbs of motion, and those that are used for different ways of referring to time.

I guess the others will fall into place as needed.


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