# personhood



## Broff

Hello Everyone,

I am translating a book on bioethics.  One of the chapters is titled:

Divine and Human 'Personhood'

I used:  La nature de la personne divine et humaine.

Is there a better rendition?

Moderator's note: several threads have been merged to create this one.


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## xtrasystole

Broff said:


> Divine and Human 'Personhood'
> 
> I used:  La nature de la personne divine et humaine.


Sounds good to me (but I'm no specialist). 

Also: _'Individualité divine et humaine'_. 

Another suggestion: _'Moi divin et Moi humain'_ (you may want to google up those terms).


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## Broff

Thank you xtrasystole,

I know that in this context it is not individuality since it is more restrictive that personality.  It is more akin to prosopon but since the author used a simpler term like personhood, I am trying to find a French equivalent.


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## Bisou82

So why not "personnalité" ?


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## Broff

personnalité would be personality.  By personhood the author is describing the metaphysical aspect of the person


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## Bisou82

then I like the suggestions from xtrasystole: Moi divin et moi humain.


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## Gil

qualité de  personne?


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## David

intégríté personnel?

We had the same problem in Spanish a couple of weeks ago, and I proposed  "integridad personal", which seemed to fit..


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## Broff

HI David,

Personne intégrale perhaps instead of _intégríté personnel._

Were you translating personhood into Spanish?


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## bh7

_La nature de la personne divine et humaine_ sounds pretty good to me, but if you want to change, I propose this as an alternative:
_L'essence divine et humaine_


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## Cath.S.

Bisou82 said:


> then I like the suggestions from xtrasystole: Moi divin et moi humain.


So do I. I also think Bh's _essence_ fits.
Here is a link about the concept of personhood.


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## Broff

Thanks to all of you!  You are Gems


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## freekee

individualité


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## Broff

freekee said:


> individualité


 
I am afraid that in this text personhood is almost opposite to individuality.  The individual is described as an isolated cell while the person includes the individual and his relationships to others.


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## freekee

ok. I note


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## istanza

Yes but it seems to me that individuality is actually part of the "personhood concept" (although I'm no specialist either).

_essence divine et humaine_ sounds nice, but I am not sure if it means the same thing. It seems more general to me.

TERMIUM translates _personhood_ into _identité individuelle_, but it's true that Termium is not always correct in every context. But this time it seems to fit, here is the given example:

*CONT –* L'identité individuelle au sens large, «est un système de sentiments et de représentation de soi, (c'est-à-dire) l'ensemble des caractéristiques physiques, psychologiques, morales, juridiques, sociales et culturelles à partir desquelles la personne peut se définir, se présenter, se connaître et se faire connaître, ou à partir desquelles autrui peut la définir, la situer, ou la reconnaître» (Tap, 1979, p. 8)


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## Broff

The text reflets Orthodox Christian theology where an individual is turned toward the self in self-love while a person is turned toward the outside in communion and love of others, that's in a nutshell.  But here individual and person cannot be used interchangeably.


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## andad

If this helps at all, the notion of personhood is distinct from the notion of humanity (or even individuality).  The term humanity became troublesome due to a number of intense debates about abortion, suicide, euthanasia, suffering, etc.  Here's a link to a fairly good source:http://www.northave.org/MGManual/Medical/Med2.htm 

So, it seems that it's more a juridical or ethical term to replace humanity.  I will have to think about equivalents in French.


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## thejakaword

hello all,

I know it looks and sounds strange but how about 'personne-ité' ?


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## Cath.S.

_Divinité et humanité_ ?


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## Broff

I a, not sure that we can use humanité here, what belongs to humanity and what belong to persons are different in certain areas.


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## samay77

Hello!

Comment traduiriez vous *'personhood'*

personne? personnalité? 

le contexte, si ça peut aider :

_'with little regard to the infant's personhood'_

Thank you!


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## archijacq

avec peu d'égards envers le nouveau-né en tant que personne ?


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## pifnane

l'individualité du ...


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## Chris' Spokesperson

Ce n'est pas l'individualité. Personhood est un néologisme qui veut dire le fait (ou l'état) d'être un humain. C'est ça en somme. La proposition d'archi marche très bien.


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## GrammarFreak

Chris' Spokesperson said:


> Ce n'est pas l'individualité. Personhood est un néologisme qui veut dire le fait (ou l'état) d'être un humain. C'est ça en somme. La proposition d'archi marche très bien.


 
 My thoughts too.


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## samay77

ok merci


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## Forbane

Bonjour,

J'ai beaucoup de mal à traduire cette phrase, même si le sens général m'est perceptible.
La voici :

"_Speciesism is morally objectionable because, like racism, sexism,  and heterosexism, it links personhood with an irrelevant criterion."

_ _"Le spécisme est moralement inacceptable car, comme le racisme, le sexisme et l’hétérosexisme, il rattache la personne humaine (???) à des critères non pertinents."_


Merci pour vos suggestions !


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## Kelimutu

I have never heard personhood before,  
however we talk about brotherhood or sisterhood as being a collection of men or women (and not brothers or sisters) 
and we also say 'the brotherhood of man' which means mankind in general 
so perhaps this is a pc way of saying this, and it means 'la race humaine'


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## Keith Bradford

Perhaps: _il rattache des critères non pertinents à la reconnaissance de l'individu._

Because the author seems to be saying: all creatures (not only _la personne humaine_ !) should be recognised as individuals.


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## Kelimutu

I had not understood that the first word (also something i have never seen!) but if speciesism means to be hostile to other (or certain) species, then I agree with Keith, but wonder if by putting 'individu' automatically makes people believe we are talking about humans again. Shouldn't we say 'beings'?


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## Forbane

"Speciesism" : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speciesism


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## Forbane

Voilà comment j'ai finalement traduit "personhood".
Qu'en pensez-vous (j'ai ajouté le contexte) ?

" _[...]__1. Speciesism is morally objectionable  because, like racism, sexism, and heterosexism, it links personhood  with an irrelevant criterion.
_
Explanation: We do not object to speciesism  in a vacuum. We reject it because it is like other forms of  discrimination. What all forms of discrimination share in common is the  use of an irrelevant criterion to exclude people from full membership in  the moral community.[...]"


" [...]
_1. Le spécisme est moralement inacceptable, puisqu’à l’instar du racisme, du sexisme et de l’hétérosexisme, il définit l’individualité selon des critères non pertinents._
  Explication : nous ne nous opposons pas au spécisme par hasard. Nous le rejetons parce qu’il est semblable aux autres formes de discrimination. Ce que toutes les formes de discrimination ont en commun, c’est le recours à des critères non pertinents pour exclure des individus de l’appartenance pleine et entière à la communauté morale.[...]."


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## Coque

thejakaword said:


> hello all,
> I know it looks and sounds strange but how about 'personne-ité' ?



J'aime bien cette option, thejakaword! Elle est claire et linguistiquement logique.
Aussi, on a employé déjà "personnitude" (voir ici, p. 27, nbp#1).


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