# Color as adjective



## gabriel001234

I saw this question on the Internet: "What color t-shirt should I get"? Does color mean "with color" in that case? Also, can I answer it with "A white t-shirt"?


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> "What color t-shirt should I get"?


If it helps, think of it as "In/Of what colour should I get a t-shirt?"


gabriel001234 said:


> Does color mean "with color" in that case?


It refers to the colour of the t-shirt.


gabriel001234 said:


> Also, can I answer it with "A white t-shirt"?


Yes.


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## lingobingo

It means what colour of T-shirt, and the natural answer would just be: white, red, blue or whatever. No need to repeat "a T-shirt".


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> I saw this question on the Internet: "What color t-shirt should I get"? Does color mean "with color" in that case? Also, can I answer it with "A white t-shirt"?



It means that you have decided to buy a T shirt and you are seeking advice as to whether you should buy a yellow one, or a red one, etc.

 So your suggested answer is fine, but your paraphrase does not make sense. I have no idea what you are trying to convey with the phrase 'with colour'.

Crossposted


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## gabriel001234

Scrawny goat said:


> It means that you have decided to buy a T shirt and you are seeking advice as to whether you should buy a yellow one, or a red one, etc.
> 
> So your suggested answer is fine, but your paraphrase does not make sense. I have no idea what you are trying to convey with the phrase 'with colour'.
> 
> Crossposted


I saw in a dictionary that color means "possessing or involving color"


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> I saw in a dictionary that color means "possessing or involving color"


What dictionary? That sounds like a definition for 'colo(u)red', not colo(u)r.


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## lingobingo

gabriel001234 said:


> I saw in a dictionary that color means "possessing or involving color"



It can in some circumstances, for example a colour photograph as opposed to a black and white one.


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## gabriel001234

Scrawny goat said:


> What dictionary? That sounds like a definition for 'colo(u)red', not colo(u)r.


Dictionary.com and Cambridge Dictionary


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## gabriel001234

lingobingo said:


> It means what colour of T-shirt, and the natural answer would just be: white, red, blue or whatever. No need to repeat "a T-shirt".


What is a color t-shirt in "what color t-shirt"...


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> Dictionary.com and Cambridge Dictionary


It gives as an example 'a color TV'. You understand I hope that this does not mean that the TV itself is pink or green? This usage is completely different from talking about the colour of a T-shirt.


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> What is a color t-shirt in "what color t-shirt"...


He isn't referring to a thing called a "colour t-shirt".
He's asking a question. _I'm going to buy a t-shirt. What colour should I choose?
_
Compare: _What flavour icecream do you want? Vanilla, strawberry, chocolate?_


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## gabriel001234

I know that a color TV is a tv that shows images in colors, but I couldn't find that use of "color" in color t-shirt in dictionaries, so I thought this: We choose a color for our t-shirt, so we choose a color T-shirt, and it can come in many colors


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## heypresto

gabriel001234 said:


> What is a color t-shirt in "what color t-shirt"...



Have you read posts 2 and 3?

Cross-posted.


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## gabriel001234

I already know that but "color t-shirt" doesn't sound right to me because we are choosing a t-shirt, not a "color-shirt"


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## lingobingo

There is no such thing as a colour (adjective) T-shirt.

What colour (noun) is your T-shirt? The answer has to be a colour such as red, black, or whatever.


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> I know that a color TV is a tv that shows images in colors, but I couldn't find that use of "color" in color t-shirt in dictionaries, so I thought this: We choose a color for our t-shirt, so we choose a color T-shirt, and it can come in many colors


Have you read the responses carefully?
You are correct that the 'color TV' usage does not apply to t-shirts.  I don't understand what is confusing you.


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## gabriel001234

"What color should I get" is fine to me, but "what color t-shirt" doesn't sound right to me. Shouldn't it be "t-shirt color"?


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> but "what color t-shirt" doesn't sound right to me.


It's an informal way of asking "In/of what colour".


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## lingobingo

"what color t-shirt" = what color *of* t-shirt (but it's idiomatic/normal to omit the word of)


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## heypresto

It's the same as asking, for instance, 'What size t-shirt should I get?' We're not asking about something called a 'size t-shirt'.

Or, 'What length trousers would you like?' Again, we are not asking about something called 'length trousers'?


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## gabriel001234

Barque said:


> It's an informal way of asking "In/of what colour".


Thanks for your answer. Correct me if I'm wrong. It does not mean "with a color", but since we say color t-shirt, we are saying that it has colors indeed and we can choose in which color we want it, because every t-shirt has a color, right? That was my understanding of that expression.


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## gabriel001234

I know but it doesn't sound grammatically correct to me. T-shirt size is better in my opinion.


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> I know but it doesn't sound grammatically correct to me. T-shirt size is better in my opinion.


I've learned a number of languages, and I understand that sometimes it's difficult to accept that something is right. But, please understand that what we as native speakers are telling you is true- it sounds perfectly natural and your alternative does not.


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## gabriel001234

Scrawny goat said:


> I've learned a number of languages, and I understand that sometimes it's difficult to accept that something is right. But, please understand that what we as native speakers are telling you is true- it sounds perfectly natural and your alternative does not.


But is it grammatically correct? I can see "t-shirt size" as a correct structure but not "size t-shirt". To me, size t-shirt would be "t-shirt of a size"


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> But is it grammatically correct? I can see "t-shirt size" as a correct structure but not "size t-shirt". To me, size t-shirt would be "t-shirt of a size"


Yes. It is absolutely 100% correct.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> But is it grammatically correct? I can see "t-shirt size" as a correct structure but not "size t-shirt". To me, size t-shirt would be "t-shirt of a size"





Scrawny goat said:


> I've learned a number of languages, and I understand that sometimes it's difficult to accept that something is right. But, *please understand that what we as native speakers are telling you is true*- it sounds perfectly natural and your alternative does not.


Please listen to what the native speakers are saying.  When you say “To me it sounds wrong” it is because you are not a native speaker  Grammar is derived from what we say as a group of people speaking the same language and this is how we say it. So by definition, it is grammatical.  If you think a rule is being broken, you are wrong, and this is a structure you need to learn


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## gabriel001234

Is saying "what color iPhone should I get" the same as saying "what color should I get iPhone"?


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## gabriel001234

I also saw this question on Quora: "Which is the best color iPhone". Would "color iPhone" be a "thing" now?


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## heypresto

No. "What colour iPhone should I get?" is correct and idiomatic. "What colour should I get iPhone?" is wrong, and sounds very 'foreign'.


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## heypresto

gabriel001234 said:


> I also saw this question on Quora: "Which is the best color iPhone". Would "color iPhone" be a "thing" now?


No.


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> Is saying "what color iPhone should I get" the same as saying "what color should I get iPhone"?


No. The second sentence is incorrect.


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## gabriel001234

heypresto said:


> No.


But what is the meaning of "the best color iPhone" then? I know I'm wrong but color iPhone sounds like "iPhone of a color".


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## Scrawny goat

gabriel001234 said:


> But what is the meaning of "the best color iPhone" then? I know I'm wrong but color iPhone sounds like "iPhone of a color".


It's exactly the same as what we have already explained in great detail above.


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## Barque

You could however say "What colour should I get an/the iPhone in?" but "What colour iPhone...?" sounds more natural.


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## JulianStuart

Post #18 will help you learn this structure - the omission of “of” is the explanation you are finding problematic but it is a standard English structure.  Just learn it - resistance is futile


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## gabriel001234

Ok, thank you. Just two more questions: can I say t-shirt size instead of size t-shirt? Also, what is the adjective in "size t-shirt"?


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> what is the meaning of "the best color iPhone" then?


It probably means "Of all the colours the iPhone comes in, which is the best?"


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> can I say t-shirt size instead of size t-shirt?


If you mean "What t-shirt size should I get?", no. But you _can_ ask "What's your shirt size?"


gabriel001234 said:


> Also, what is the adjective in "size t-shirt"?


If you mean the question "What size t-shirt should I get?", neither "size" nor "t-shirt" is an adjective there. They are both nouns though I suppose you could say "size" is being _used_ adjectivally.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Ok, thank you. Just two more questions: can I say t-shirt size instead of size t-shirt? Also, what is the adjective in "size t-shirt"?


The sentence is critical:
What size shoes do you wear?
My shoe size is 12.  I wear size 12 shoes.  etc


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## gabriel001234

Barque said:


> If you mean "What t-shirt size should I get?", no. But you _can_ ask "What's your shirt size?"
> 
> If you mean the question "What size t-shirt should I get?", neither "size" nor "t-shirt" is an adjective there. They are both nouns though I suppose you could say "size" is being _used_ adjectivally.



So is it a compound noun?


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> The sentence is critical:
> What size shoes do you wear?
> My shoe size is 12.  I wear size 12 shoes.  etc


What do you mean by critical?


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## Barque

Did you read post 18 (and other posts) saying much the same thing? "Size" goes with "What", rather than with "t-shirt".


lingobingo said:


> "what color t-shirt" = what color *of* t-shirt (but it's idiomatic/normal to omit the word of)



I suggest you slow down a little and read the posts above instead of shooting off questions one after the other.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> What do you mean by critical?


It is important how the sentence is written whether shoe comes first or size comes first.  You asked a question but did not give a complete sentence to illustrate. I gave examples to illustrate both.


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> It is important how the sentence is written whether shoe comes first or size comes forst.  You asked a question but did not give a complete sentence to illustrate.


Can I say for example "What shoe size you want"?


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## JulianStuart

Post #18 was 





lingobingo said:


> "what color t-shirt" = what color *of* t-shirt (but it's idiomatic/normal to omit the word of)





JulianStuart said:


> Post #18 will help you learn this structure - the omission of “of” is the explanation you are finding problematic but it is a standard English structure.  Just learn it - resistance is futile





Barque said:


> Did you read post 18 (and other posts) saying much the same thing? "Size" goes with "What", rather than with "t-shirt".
> 
> 
> I suggest you slow down a little and read the posts above instead of shooting off questions one after the other.


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## heypresto

_What shoe size *do* you want?_ This is OK, but not as natural as: _What size shoes do you want? _


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## gabriel001234

Ok, last question: The expression "What color shirt..." Is idiomatic, right? So It is what it is and I won't be able to find an explanation of why that happens, right?


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## gabriel001234

heypresto said:


> _What shoe size *do* you want?_ This is OK, but not as natural as: _What size shoes do you want? _


Why does one sound more natural than the other?


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Ok, last question: The expression "What color shirt..." Is idiomatic, right? So It is what it is and I won't be able to find an explanation of why that happens, right?


Um, did you ever read post #18? - if it helps you relax, consider it the ellipsis of the word “of”


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## heypresto

You'll find plenty of explanation above.


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## Barque

Again,


lingobingo said:


> (but it's idiomatic/normal to omit the word of)


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> Um, did you ever read post #18? - if it helps you relax, consider it the ellipsis of the word “of”


I read it but I want to know if it's idiomatic


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> I read it but I want to know if it's idiomatic


How many people have told you so?  You came looking for clarification and it has been given many times.  Here is the dictionary definition of ellipsis.

el•lip•sis  (i lip*′*sis), n., pl.  *-ses* (-sēz).

Grammar
Grammar: the *omission* from a sentence or other construction *of one or more words *that would complete or *clarify the construction*, as the omission of _who are, while I am,_ or _while we are_ from _I like to interview people sitting down._


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## gabriel001234

People are just telling me that it's an informal way to say it, but no one told me why it's more natural than "shoe size".


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> How many people have told you so?


I think that everyone did. So I won't be able to find explanation regarding this topic, right?


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## heypresto

*Please *re*-*read #18.

Then read it again.

Then re-read the whole thread.


Cross-posted, and in reply to #51.


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## JulianStuart

heypresto said:


> *Please *re*-*read #18.
> 
> Then read it again.
> 
> Then re-read the whole thread.
> 
> 
> Cross-posted, and in reply to #51.


And then read the definition of ellipsis again \





gabriel001234 said:


> I think that everyone did. So I won't be able to find explanation regarding this topic, right?


What further explanation do you need?


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## gabriel001234

I read it five times and then read all the thread but I couldn't find why it's more natural. All I can see in post #18 is that it's a case of omission of the word "of".


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## gabriel001234

Why the omission happens? Why is it considered natural? Is "color t-shirt" a compound noun?


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## heypresto

gabriel001234 said:


> it's a case of omission of the word "of".



 That's right.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> I read it five times and then read all the thread but I couldn't find why it's more natural. All I can see in post #18 is that it's a case of omission of the word "of".


Yes - that is an example of ellipsis.


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## heypresto

gabriel001234 said:


> Why the omission happens? Why is it considered natural? Is "color t-shirt" a compound noun?


(i) Because it's what we do sometimes. 
(ii) Because it's what we say.
(iii) No.


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## gabriel001234

I just need you to answer just one more question before I end posting questions in this thread: So because "it's what we say" (idiomatic), I won't be able to know *why *we say it that way, right? It is what it is.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> I just need you to answer just one more question before I end posting questions in this thread: So, because "it's what we say" (idiomatic), I won't be able to know *why *we say it that way, right? It is what it is.


Ellipsis is quite common in English. 
“I described it in one of the  earlier posts I made.”
That is also an example of ellipsis because I omitted a word between post and I .  The “full” version would be
“I described it in one of the earlier posts that I made.”


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> Ellipsis is quite common in English.
> “I described it in one of the  earlier posts I made.”
> That is also an example of ellipsis because I omitted a word between post and I .  The “full” version would be
> “I described it in one of the earlier posts that I made.”


Can you show me other example of the omission of "of" used in other cases?


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## heypresto

Why do we say _anything_? That's a question for philosophy students staggering back to their rooms at quarter past four in the morning after a party at their mate's place.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Can you show me other example of the omission of "of" used in other cases?


That is completely missing the point.  Ellipsis can be used to omit various words and in this case “of” is the word being omitted.  Even if there are no other examples of “of” beng omitted _in the whole of all the English that has ever been written_, it is still the explanation you have been looking for.  It is up to you whether you accept it or not.


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## gabriel001234

When can I be sure that something is omitted? For example, I didn't know that "of" was omitted in "size shirt"


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> When can I be sure that something is omitted? For example, I didn't know that "of" was omitted in "size shirt"


When native speakers tell you so


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## gabriel001234

Thanks for your answer. I'm still finding that omission odd but I'll accept it anyway. But even native speakers can be confused by that omission, right?


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Thanks for your answer. I'm still finding that omission odd but I'll accept it anyway. But even native speakers can be confused by that omission, right?


If you randomly start omitting “of’ when speaking English, you will confuse your listeners.!  However, as was made clear early in the thread, this structure is established and known to native speakers, and is to be accepted and lsimply earnt by learners (along with a couple of other “irregularities” in English  )


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## gabriel001234

So would you consider it a "irregularity"?


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> So would you consider it a "irregularity"?


No, that’s why I used the quotes.  It obviously seems like an irregularity to you and that’s why you opened the thread.  Fair enough.  However, for us, it’s not an irregularity.  It’s taken two pages to get you to accept that


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## gabriel001234

To be honest, I didn't accept that completely because it's something I haven't seen before and I won't be able to find an explanation that tells me why "of" can be omitted in that case and why it's correct, but I guess I'll have to accept it anyway.


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## PaulQ

gabriel001234 said:


> o be honest, I didn't accept that completely because it's something I haven't seen before


There is a name for that: "Cognitive dissonance." See Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia


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## bennymix

gabriel001234 said:


> Why does one sound more natural than the other?



Barque and Heypresto and others have made fine attempts to explain, Gabriel.   But if I may add one bit to the thirty odd replies,

The question 1) "What shoe size do you want" is not so natural or common as 2)"What size (of) shoe do you want" because it's rather abstract and general.   2) is more likely in most contexts.  1) is possible, perhaps more likely, for example, in a specialized context:  

If a shopkeeper were talking to a factory about getting a new shipment because he'd run out of one size, he might say,
"I need a truckload of the most popular size; I'm out." 
"What shoe size do you want?"  
"Ten."


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## gabriel001234

Thanks for your answer. Is there any explanation that tells me why that omission can be possible and why it's correct?


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## Andygc

Yes.
Because that's how we say it in English.
Sorry, there is no other explanation.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Thanks for your answer. Is there any explanation that tells me why that omission can be possible and why it's correct?


Looking for a rule in English? 
It goes back to the “that is how we say it” answer for this particular structure.  “Why is it possible?” - the “of” is unnecessary for us, so we omit it.  I can see why a non-native speaker might not feel it is unnecessary but the structure is still completely normal and idiomatic.


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> Is there any explanation that tells me why that omission can be possible


Because people do it all the time.


gabriel001234 said:


> Is there any explanation that tells me...why it's correct?


Because people do it all the time.


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## VicNicSor

This could be helpful:
that color berry


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## gabriel001234

But why is it unnecessary for you since a preposition adds a meaning to a phrase?


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## dojibear

gabriel001234 said:


> I know that a color TV is a tv that shows images in colors, but I couldn't find that use of "color" in color t-shirt in dictionaries, so I thought this: We choose a color for our t-shirt, so we choose a color T-shirt, and it can come in many colors



Dictionaries are not language tutorials. They do not teach you how to use words.



gabriel001234 said:


> What color t-shirt should I get



The phrase "color t-shirt" does not happen in this sentence. You are reading it wrong. You are imagining the phrase "color t-shirt" is used here, but it isn't . The phrase "color t-shirt" is not normally used in English.

The sentence asks "what color?", talking about t-shirts you may buy.

You could ask "what color car should I buy?". You can buy a red car or a gray car, but you cannot buy a "color car". The phrase "color car" is not part of this question.


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> But why is it unnecessary for you since a preposition adds a meaning to a phrase?


This reminds me of a rhyme that was popular when I was a child.
_A: Why?
B: Because the sky's very high. [A line that I don't remember]. And you married a butterfly._

Are you telling me Portuguese doesn't have a single expression where the words have a certain accepted meaning even if they aren't completely logical? I'm sure it does. Just about every major language does.


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## gabriel001234

dojibear said:


> Dictionaries are not language tutorials. They do not teach you how to use words.
> 
> 
> 
> The phrase "color t-shirt" does not happen in this sentence. You are reading it wrong. You are imagining the phrase "color t-shirt" is used here, but it isn't . The phrase "color t-shirt" is not normally used in English.
> 
> The sentence asks "what color?", talking about t-shirts you may buy.
> 
> You could ask "what color car should I buy?". You can buy a red car or a gray car, but you cannot buy a "color car". The phrase "color car" is not part of this question.


So it's a case of omission of a preposition as other posters told me, right?


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## Barque

No, it's a case of illogicality. Everyone knows English speakers aren't very smart. As the only two non-native English speakers on this thread, let's agree to accept that. Please. 85 posts. Long. Very long. Very very long.

And you've said "Last question" so many times I've lost count.

For the benefit of others - I didn't actually mean "No":


gabriel001234 said:


> So it's a case of omission of a preposition as other posters told me, right?


Yes, it is.


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## gabriel001234

Ok, I can accept that, but other posters told me that it's a case of ellipsis and it's very common in English


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Ok, I can accept that, but other posters told me that it's a case of ellipsis and it's very common in English


Either it is an ellipsis or it is a way of explaining it to a learner  to understand it when they expect “of” in the structure. Does it matter which?  Ellipsis was explained earlier - don’t get the impression that the act of omission is a choice made each time.  We _don’t_ think “I need to omit XYZ word here” - it is simply natural to say it without XYZ word (in this case “of”).
Ellipsis is very common in English.


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## Barque

gabriel001234 said:


> it's a case of ellipsis and it's very common in English


It is. It is. But if you're happier with the "illogicality" explanation, let's accept that.

These English. Can't even speak straight.


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## JulianStuart

Barque said:


> It is. It is. But if you're happier with the "illogicality" explanation, let's accept that.
> 
> These English. Can't even speak straight.


(Careful, you will provoke a question about “Shouldn’t that be straightly?” )


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## sdgraham

gabriel001234 said:


> People are just telling me that it's an informal way to say it, but no one told me why it's more natural than "shoe size".



*Because that's the way we say it.* -- which is the very definition of "idiomatic/natural." (sigh)

*The same answer you got in post # 77*


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## bennymix

Barque said:


> This reminds me of a rhyme that was popular when I was a child.
> _A: Why?
> B: Because the sky's very high. [A line that I don't remember]. And you married a butterfly._
> 
> Are you telling me Portuguese doesn't have a single expression where the words have a certain accepted meaning even if they aren't completely logical? I'm sure it does. Just about every major language does.



I found this on the 'net:   Because the sky is very high. You will marry in June July. Your husband will be a butterfly. You don't know how to multiply.

There are also similar rhymes, "Because the sky is high and elephants can't fly."

So Gabriel, we leave out 'of' because... we leave out 'of' --just as Portuguese speakers leave out syllables and words.


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## sdgraham

Barque said:


> Did you read post 18 (and other posts) saying much the same thing? "Size" goes with "What", rather than with "t-shirt".
> 
> I suggest you slow down a little and read the posts above instead of shooting off questions one after the other.


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> Either it is an ellipsis or it is a way of explaining it to a learner  to understand it when they expect “of” in the structure. Does it matter which?  Ellipsis was explained earlier - don’t get the impression that the act of omission is a choice made each time.  We _don’t_ think “I need to omit XYZ word here” - it is simply natural to say it without XYZ word (in this case “of”).
> Ellipsis is very common in English.


What do you mean by: Either it is an ellipsis or it is a way of explaining it to a learner to understand it when they expect “of” in the structure. Are you telling me that "ellipsis" is a way to explain me how that expression works?


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## Barque

JulianStuart said:


> (Careful, you will provoke a question about “Shouldn’t that be straightly?” )


See post #93. I see you weren't too careful either.


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> What do you mean by: Either it is an ellipsis or it is a way of explaining it to a learner to understand it when they expect “of” in the structure. Are you telling me that "ellipsis" is a way to explain me how that expression works?


You clearly felt something was missing, otherwise you would not have started the thread, right?  Explaining it as an ellipsis makes it easier for you to learn this normal English structure.


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## JulianStuart

Barque said:


> See post #93. I see you weren't too careful either.


See post #95
(By the way, I have no problem with “Think straight” or “Think big” or even “Think different” but there are those who don’t, well, think that way)


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## gabriel001234

JulianStuart said:


> You clearly felt something was missing, otherwise you would not have started the thread, right?  Explaining it as an ellipsis makes it easier for you to learn this normal English structure.


 Is there another way to explain that?


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## JulianStuart

gabriel001234 said:


> Is there another way to explain that?


You seemed vociferously unsatisfied by the native speakers telling you it was normal, natural and idiomatic as it is used. To help you get over this block in your learning, I gave you an explanation.  “If you think of it as an ellipsis, it will be easier to understand and accept as normal”.  Whether it is an ellipsis or not, is for the philosophers and grammarians to debate at 4:30 in the morning (q.v. )


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