# upstairs, downstairs



## drei_lengua

Cześć,
How do you say the following:

"I am upstairs."
"I am downstairs." 
"I'm going upstairs."
"I'm going downstairs." 

Dziękuję.
Drei


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## dn88

Hello,

"I am upstairs." - "Jestem na górze."
"I am downstairs." - "Jestem na dole."
"I'm going upstairs." - "Idę/schodzę na dół."
"I'm going downstairs." - "Idę/wchodzę na górę."

In #3 and #4 the literal translation of "upstairs/downstairs" would be "schodami na górę/schodami w (or "na") dół", but in practice "schodami" is almost always omitted.

dn88


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## dn88

dn88 said:


> Hello,
> 
> "I am upstairs." - "Jestem na górze."
> "I am downstairs." - "Jestem na dole."
> "I'm going upstairs." - "Idę/wchodzę na górę."
> "I'm going downstairs." - "Idę/schodzę na dół."
> 
> In #3 and #4 the literal translation of "upstairs/downstairs" would be "schodami na górę/schodami w (or "na") dół", but in practice "schodami" is almost always omitted.
> 
> dn88



Sorry, I mixed them up. 

dn88


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## .Jordi.

A czy można wchodzić na dół albo schodzić na górę?


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## drei_lengua

dn88 said:


> Sorry, I mixed them up.
> 
> dn88


 
Cześć,
What really confuses me here is that both expressions use "na" although one expression talks about being somewhere whereas the other one talks about going somewhere. I have to find a way to remember this. I'm always getting them confused. Any suggestions?

Dziękuję bardzo,
Drei


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## tkekte

Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na gorę myslę że nie. 
To mysliacy logiczno... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być. 

[please correct my broken Polish  .. if it's understandable at all?]


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## to_ja_zozo

drei_lengua said:


> Cześć,
> What really confuses me here is that both expressions use "na" although one expression talks about being somewhere whereas the talks about going somewhere. I have to find a way to remember this. I'm always getting them confused. Any suggestions?
> 
> Dziękuję bardzo,
> Drei


 
hi,

the difference is in the verb, not the preposition:

jestem (być) refers to being somewhere
schodzę (schodzić) / wchodzę (wchodzić) refers to the movement

zozo


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## tkekte

drei_lengua said:


> Cześć,
> What really confuses me here is that both expressions use "na" although one expression talks about being somewhere whereas the talks about going somewhere.  I have to find a way to remember this.  I'm always getting them confused.  Any suggestions?
> 
> Dziękuję bardzo,
> Drei


I think the difference is in the cases...

iść na dół <-- accusative case
być na dole <-- locative case


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## Thomas1

.Jordi. said:


> A czy można wchodzić na dół albo schodzić na górę?


A dlaczego nie można? 


tkekte said:


> Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na górę myslę, że nie.
> To mysliacy logicznoMyśląc logicznie... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.
> 
> [please correct my broken Polish  .. if it's understandable at all?]


 


tkekte said:


> I think the difference is in the cases...
> 
> iść na dół <-- accusative case
> być na dole <-- locative case


There surely is, but I think it is the preposition _na_ that dictates here the case. 

If _na_ implies a venue where something happens, tekes place, occurs, etc. then it requires the the locative, eg:
_Projekcja filmu odbywa się na dole kina._
The film projection is taking place on the downstairs of the cinema.

If _na_ implies a place towards which an action is taken/directed then it requires the accusative, eg:
_Wiele osób wchodziło na górę po schodach ponieważ zepsuła się winda._
Many people were going upstairs using the stairs because the elevator had broken down.


Tom


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## tkekte

Hi Tom...

With your fix (myśląc logicznie), I think you might have changed the logic of my broken sentence. 

I wanted to say

_"You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."_

You changed the last sentence to something that sounds (to me) like _"If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."_
The contrast that I wanted to make is that, logically thinking, it's impossible to come down upstairs, unless you are in an Escher painting.
Maybe this could convey that contrast: _"То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."_

Of course all of this might be completely wrong.. I'm just guessing things. 
How would you translate to Polish what I wrote in English?

Thank you for helping.


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## Thomas1

tkekte said:


> Hi Tom...
> 
> With your fix (myśląc logicznie), I think you might have changed the logic of my broken sentence.
> 
> I wanted to say
> 
> _"You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."_
> 
> You changed the last sentence to something that sounds (to me) like _"If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."_
> The contrast that I wanted to make is that, logically thinking, it's impossible to come down upstairs, unless you are in an Escher painting.
> Maybe this could convey that contrast: _"То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."_
> 
> Of course all of this might be completely wrong.. I'm just guessing things.
> How would you translate to Polish what I wrote in English?
> 
> Thank you for helping.


I think what you have written here roughly is said in what I corrected. 

Myśląc logicznie... to na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.
Logically thinking... in Esher's paintings, everthing can be.


_"You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."_
_Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. Zatem, logicznie myśląc, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe.*_

_"If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."_
_Jeśli pomyśleć logicznie, to wszystko jest możliwe na obrazach Eschera._

_"То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być."_
These sentences need some alterations to sound good in Polish.
_"То Jeśli myśleć logicznie Choć to na obrazach Eschera może być wszystko _(this order sounds much better to me, I didn't correct it last time as it is acceptable, but off as well, so I'm mentioning it now)_."*_


Hope this helps (and that the mod won't get too cheesed off )

Tom


EDIT: I retract these translations, please see the posts below for clarification.


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## Piotr_WRF

Thomas1 said:


> I think what you have written here roughly is said in what I corrected.
> 
> Myśląc logicznie... to na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.
> Logically thinking... in Esher's paintings, everthing can be.
> 
> 
> _"You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."_
> _Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. Zatem, logicznie myśląc, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe._
> 
> _"If you think logically, then everything is possible on Escher's paintings."_
> _Jeśli pomyśleć logicznie, to wszystko jest możliwe na obrazach Eschera._


I too think that that's not what tkekte meant. In my opinion the part "logically thinking" refers to that you can't "come down upstairs". In contrast to that, i.e. putting logic aside, on Escher's paintings you can't be so sure anymore.


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## Thomas1

Piotr_WRF said:


> I too think that that's not what tkekte meant. In my opinion the part "logically thinking" refers to that you can't "come down upstairs". In contrast to that, i.e. putting logic aside, on Escher's paintings you can't be so sure anymore.


Oh, I see I got it a bit differently thinking that _myśląc logicznie_ referred to the _Escher_ sentence. That's why I thought it was a bit illogical ... 

It's due to using a separate line and lower case in tkekte's post:





			
				tkekte said:
			
		

> Chyba wchodzić można gdzie się chce, a schodzić na gorę myslę że nie.
> To mysliacy logiczno... a oto na obrazach Eschera, wszystko może być.


Thanks fo the clarification, Piotr.


I didn't see, however, the change in the next post. Now, the following should read:
_"You can enter anywhere you like, but I don't think you can come down upstairs. That is, thinking logically. On Escher's paintings, though, everything is possible."_
_Można wejść wszędzie gdzie się chce, ale nie wydaje mi się, że można zejść na górę. To logicznie myśląc. Jednak, na obrazach Eschera wszystko jest mozliwe._

tkekte, your sentence:
_"То jeśli myśleć logicznie. Choć na obrazach Eschera, może być wszystko."_
works fine in that case (after the change of the order), I'd also swap _choć_ for _chociaż_, which sounds better to me.


Tom


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## drei_lengua

Cześć everyone,

In English you can do the following:

1.  Come upstairs. - "Come upstairs now.  I have something to show you." "come" here implies towards the speaker of the command.

2.  Come downstairs. - same as number 1 except that the speaker is downstairs at the time of issuing the command.

3.  Go upstairs. "Go upstairs now.  I want you to see if there is a thief there."
"go" here implies away from the speaker

4.  Go downstairs. - same as number 3 except that the speaker is upstairs at the time of issuing the command.
5.  Be upstairs. - "I enjoy being upstairs where I can see the mountains better through the window." 
6.  Be downstairs. - "I enjoy being downstairs where I can get away from my noisy siblings playing upstairs." 

Not sure about the range of verbs used in Polish as verbs are quite specific to a language.

Drei


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## Piotr_WRF

Thomas1 said:


> There surely is, but I think it is the preposition _na_ that dictates here the case.


But how can this be? It's the same preposition after all. To me, it's the other way round. It's the case (locative or accusative) that conveys the meaning.
An example:

locative case:
patrzyć na dole - to look around downstairs (while being oneself downstairs, too)

accusative case:
patrzyć na dół  - to look downstairs (while being upstairs)


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## .Jordi.

Thomas1 said:


> A dlaczego nie można?
> 
> Tom


 
Ponieważ wyrażenia ,,schodzić na dół'' i "wchodzić na górę" są konstrukcjami redunandantnymi . 

Ale cóż, niektórzy to nawet nie widzą błędu w sformułowaniach typu "akwen wodny" czy też "cofnąć się do tyłu".


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## Piotr_WRF

.Jordi. said:


> Ponieważ wyrażenia ,,schodzić na dół'' i "wchodzić na górę" są konstrukcjami redunandantnymi .



Zgadzam się. Tyle że powinno być "redundantnymi".


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## .Jordi.

Piotr_WRF said:


> Zgadzam się. Tyle że powinno być "redundantnymi".


 
Jak najbardziej, brawa za czujność o tej porze.


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## Thomas1

Piotr_WRF said:


> But how can this be? It's the same preposition after all. To me, it's the other way round. It's the case (locative or accusative) that conveys the meaning.
> An example:
> 
> locative case:
> patrzyć na dole - to look around downstairs (while being oneself downstairs, too)
> 
> accusative case:
> patrzyć na dół - to look downstairs (while being upstairs)


I'd say:
patrzeć na dole - still the action is taking place downstairs
patrzeć w dół - you're directing your eyes downwards 
In these caes it is the preposition that makes the difference in the case.

If the verb were the factor deciding on the case it would be:
_Patrzeć dołem_ which doesn't make any sense.



.Jordi. said:


> Ponieważ wyrażenia ,,schodzić na dół'' i "wchodzić na górę" są konstrukcjami redunandantnymi .
> 
> Ale cóż, niektórzy to nawet nie widzą błędu w sformułowaniach typu "akwen wodny" czy też "cofnąć się do tyłu".


W pewnych kontekstach tego typu sformuowania wydają się w porządku:
Helikopter unosił się nad szczytem, żołnierze zeszli jeden po drugim na górę pokrytą śniegiem.


> *Monika Olejnik*: Czy ci górnicy, którzy weszli na dół to byli zawodowcy?
> Źródło


Takie przykłady nie są częste, ale istnieją.

Tom


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## Marga H

drei_lengua said:


> Cześć everyone,
> 
> In English you can do the following:
> It is possible in Polish too.
> 1. Come upstairs. - "Come upstairs now. I have something to show you." "come" here implies towards the speaker of the command. Przyjdż na górę.
> 
> 2. Come downstairs. - same as number 1 except that the speaker is downstairs at the time of issuing the command. Przyjdż na dół.
> 
> 3. Go upstairs. "Go upstairs now. I want you to see if there is a thief there."
> "go" here implies away from the speaker Idż na górę.
> 
> 4. Go downstairs. - same as number 3 except that the speaker is upstairs at the time of issuing the command. Idż na dół.
> Wejdż and zejdż is possible in both situations.
> 5. Be upstairs. - "I enjoy being upstairs where I can see the mountains better through the window."
> 6. Be downstairs. - "I enjoy being downstairs where I can get away from my noisy siblings playing upstairs."
> Jestem na górze/na dole.I am upstairs/downstairs. Zostań ze mną na górze/na dole.-Stay with me upstairs/downstairs.
> 
> Not sure about the range of verbs used in Polish as verbs are quite specific to a language.
> 
> Drei


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