# Chips vs. fries



## Cracker Jack

I have often heard and read in fastfood chains fries, French fries and the like. It goes with burgers and soda. Correct me if I'm mistaken but I have known somewhere that French fries actually is an American ''invention'' when a cook accidentally spilled potato strips to a metal box containing hot cooking oil and the rest is history...

Actually, it has nothing to do with being French at all. But also I often hear the term chips to refer to French fries. What I understand about chips is that they are potato slices, flat and thin and salted. 

To me, fries refer to long strips and chips to thin, round and flat ones. Is this a matter of AE and BE difference? I know that the British fare ''Fish and Chips'' consists of flour-dredged fish fillet, fried and accompanied by fried potatoes. But this potatoes are thicker and not shaped like French fries. They rather look like wedges.

Can you please enlighten me on this. Thanks in advance.


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## Aupick

Linguistically, 'chips' is the British English equivalent of the American English 'French fries', deep fried sticks of potato, eaten hot
.
Similary, 'chips' is used in American English to refer to what British English calls 'crisps', salty thin slices of fried potato, eaten cold. (Picture)

Culturally, though, American French fries tend to be thinner than British chips. This, and the American influence in the British fast food industry, means that you'll also find French fries in Britain, as an alternative variety of chips, but essentially chips (BE) = French fries (AE).


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## daviesri

Being an American that has also live in the UK, I agree with everything Aupick says above.


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## panjandrum

Proper British Chips are essentially potato, not like French Fries, which thanks to USfastfoodchains are thin fingers of crisp.

Real chips are made with real potatoes, peeled (badly) and cut into half-inch fingers then fried at least twice in beef dripping. They have a flavour that is a universe apart from French Fries. They should, of course, be wrapped in newspaper. 

Eaten fresh, chips have a crisp outside that cracks open to reveal a steaming, starchy, glistening white inside. Eaten normally (soused in salt and vinegar and nestling in the newspaper) they rapidly develop a truly, uniquely, wonderfully greasy sogginess that must be experienced to be appreciated.

For preference, the experience should be on the long walk home with the young lady of your choice, late in the evening after a visit to the cinema.


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## JazzByChas

Must say, Prof. Panj:
I briefly lived in England, and experienced the "chips" you are talking about. They were usually in conjunction with some fried fish, and were called, oddly enough  , "fish and chips." The closest thing I can think of that we might have in America would be "Boardwalk Fries" (which aren't as thick as British "chips" but are doused in Vinegar and salt, (or Old Bay Seasoning: famous in Maryland, USA). I discovered these in Ocean City, Maryland, and they, along with a pretty young lass at your side, made for a delicious walk along the boardwalk...<sigh>, especially in the cool of the evening, when you have spent the day "baking" on the beach, and want a walk in the cool night air.

_(Did I hear hearty approval, VenusEnvy?  )_



			
				panjandrum said:
			
		

> Proper British Chips are essentially potato, not like French Fries, which thanks to USfastfoodchains are thin fingers of crisp.
> 
> Real chips are made with real potatoes, peeled (badly) and cut into half-inch fingers then fried at least twice in beef dripping. They have a flavour that is a universe apart from French Fries. They should, of course, be wrapped in newspaper.
> 
> Eaten fresh, chips have a crisp outside that cracks open to reveal a steaming, starchy, glistening white inside. Eaten normally (soused in salt and vinegar and nestling in the newspaper) they rapidly develop a truly, uniquely, wonderfully greasy sogginess that must be experienced to be appreciated.
> 
> For preference, the experience should be on the long walk home with the young lady of your choice, late in the evening after a visit to the cinema.


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## cuchuflete

Must be another of those dreadful AE/BE differences, but I am having trouble associating the "wonderfully greasy sogginess that must be experienced to be appreciated" with the lady of my choice.  Her crisp exterior comes naturally salted, and vinegar would add nothing to her acerbic wit.  

All of that culinary background aside, there is another AE item which I cook frequently, and which sounds like chips(BE): steak fries.  These are best when the potato is at least four inches long or longer.  It is usually pealed, badly, then cut into wedges
about 1/2" thick, and deep fried in good oil--olive oil if I'm well provisioned, some other if not.  To the oil I add thin slices of onion and fresh garlic, as well as a little salt and fresh ground pepper.  The oil must be very, very hot, and the cooking is done quickly, to yield the desired crispy exterior, without the sog.  I have served these to some of the scruffier members of this forum, and they made approving noises as they reached for seconds.


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## panjandrum

Steak Fries are available here as a slightly larger, usually frozen, version of the real Chip. But they are nothing in comparison to what I imagine 

Cuchu's steak fries (we'd call them wedges) are very close triangular cousins to British Chips. I like the idea of adding onion, garlic and seasoning to the oil ...
... served with sour cream and chilli sauce?

You see we have chips, wedges, steak fries, french fries, curly fries, skinny fries, skins, ... and in that posh place where they stack them into a log cabin effect on the plate, pommes frites. At heart (which is where they strike hardest) they are all deep-fried potato.


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## Cracker Jack

Thanks a lot for your replies.  Now I know that it is once again a matter of AE-BE difference.  The only thing that leaves it unsettled is why Americans call it French fries.  Or was it really in the US where the name originated.

Panj your suggestion is great.  Probably, it could be done walking along the coastline on a starry night.  Most fastfoods fry them only once.  But I've tried some of them fried using oil drippings from roasted chicken and the taste was heavenly.


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## suzi br

aye - beef dripping is great for chips (although no-one is allowed to serve them in newspaper anymore)

If you don't care for deep frying at home, then you can make great jumbo chips in the oven if you cut wedges of potato and brush them with DUCK fat - prior to baking in a very hot oven for 1/2 hour or so and sprinkle with salt before serving! 

I can assure you that you'll be impressed, even you, Panj!


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## Brioche

"_french frying_" or _deep-fat frying_ is a method of cooking, where there is enough oil for the food to float in it.

compare "_pan frying_"


_French Fried Potatoes_ are thus potatoes which have been cooked using this method.

For best results, the food is fried twice - first at a lower temperature to cook the food,
then fried a second time a higher temperature to give the crisp crust.

Several countries lay claim to having invented fries/chips.
Belgium claims to have been cooking them in the 1680s.

The Belgians like a pomme frite which is thicker than the shoestring US version, but not as thick as the UK version of a chip. The Belgians like to put mayonnaise on them - extra good for the heart.

The name "fries" was introduced to Australia by US fast-food franchises, and we usually restrict the name to their shoestring offerings. 

Ordinary chips are called "chips" or "hot chips". The majority of food outlets call their offerings [hot] chips, not fries.

A potato crisp may be called a [potato] crisp here, or a [potato] chip. So you'll often hear "hot chips" to distinguish one from the other.


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## Sabelotodo

The name "french fries" is a shortened form of "frenched fried potatoes."  "Frenched" is a cooking term that means "cut in strips."


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## Brioche

Sabelotodo said:
			
		

> The name "french fries" is a shortened form of "frenched fried potatoes." "Frenched" is a cooking term that means "cut in strips."


 
I have my doubts about that.

In "normal" English, _frenched fried potatoes_ would mean first fried, then frenched.

But with "fries", the cooks french the potatoes first, then fry them,  so in "normal" English, it would be _fried frenched poatoes_

As in _baked marinated tofu_ - first marinate, then bake


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## Cracker Jack

Sabelotodo said:
			
		

> The name "french fries" is a shortened form of "frenched fried potatoes." "Frenched" is a cooking term that means "cut in strips."


 


			
				Brioche said:
			
		

> I have my doubts about that.
> 
> In "normal" English, _frenched fried potatoes_ would mean first fried, then frenched.
> 
> But with "fries", the cooks french the potatoes first, then fry them, so in "normal" English, it would be _fried frenched poatoes_
> 
> As in _baked marinated tofu_ - first marinate, then bake


 
Sabelotodo and Brioche, I just want to know if the terms *french* and *julienne* are synonymous? In both ways, potatoes are cut to strips. I am not sure whether in one or the other, potatoes are twirled or given fancy shapes before geting fried for the first time. Then they are refried.


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## Brioche

I've heard only the term "_julienne_" for thin strips.

Merriam-Webster on-line has 
french (2) "to cut (green beans) in thin lengthwise strips before cooking".

It would be a _very _clever cook who could cut fried potatoes into fancy shapes before frying a second time. 
I'll go for cut first, then fry.


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## cuchuflete

Brioche said:
			
		

> I have my doubts about that.
> 
> In "normal" English, _frenched fried potatoes_ would mean first fried, then frenched.
> 
> But with "fries", the cooks french the potatoes first, then fry them,  so in "normal" English, it would be _fried frenched poatoes_
> 
> As in _baked marinated tofu_ - first marinate, then bake



No grammar book I've seen has had the guts to say so, but AE
has lots of usages that ignore "normalcy".


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## mhp

BTW, it is "french fried potatoes" and not "frenched fried potatoes". As for the order of adjectives, I don't think English implies any temporal causality among a series of adjectives. In a series of adjectives, the most important one goes closest to the noun (most of the time but not always). In this case, the fact that they are "fried potatoes" is the primary qualification. "Fried french potatoes" while may be an accurate recipie, would imply something like "fried new potatoes" (new potato is a kind of potato usually red in color)--just my 2 cent


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## Brioche

mhp said:
			
		

> BTW, it is "french fried potatoes" and not "frenched fried potatoes". As for the order of adjectives, I don't think English implies any temporal causality among a series of adjectives. In a series of adjectives, the most important one goes closest to the noun (most of the time but not always). In this case, the fact that they are "fried potatoes" is the primary qualification. "Fried french potatoes" while may be an accurate recipie, would imply something like "fried new potatoes" (new potato is a kind of potato usually red in color)--just my 2 cent


 
I think you've missed the point here, or not followed the thread.

It has been suggested by Sabelotodo that "french fried potatoes" is a shortened form of "french*ed* fried potatoes". In this case "frenched" meaning "cut into strips".

An alternate suggestion is that "french fried potatoes" comes from the verb "to french fry" meaning "to cook swimming in oil".

Incidentally "new potatoes" refers simply to the age. New potatoes are immature potatoes harvested in spring or early summer. You can usually tell new potatoes by how easy it is to peel them.  The skin should come off in your fingers.
It has nothing to do with colour.


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## mhp

Brioche said:
			
		

> I think you've missed the point here, or not followed the thread.
> 
> It has been suggested by Sabelotodo that "french fried potatoes" is a shortened form of "french*ed* fried potatoes". In this case "frenched" meaning "cut into strips".
> 
> An alternate suggestion is that "french fried potatoes" comes from the verb "to french fry" meaning "to cook swimming in oil".
> 
> Incidentally "new potatoes" refers simply to the age. New potatoes are immature potatoes harvested in spring or early summer. You can usually tell new potatoes by how easy it is to peel them.  The skin should come off in your fingers.
> It has nothing to do with colour.


 You are right. I had not read it very carefully. I only wanted to make a point about the last few comments about the order of adjectives.



			
				Brioche said:
			
		

> I have my doubts about that.
> 
> In "normal" English, _frenched fried potatoes_ would mean first fried, then frenched.
> 
> But with "fries", the cooks french the potatoes first, then fry them,  so in "normal" English, it would be _fried frenched poatoes_



---
PS, And thank you for the pointer on new/red potato. I had always used the two terms as synonyms.


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## panjandrum

New potatoes include the varieties of potato that will yield the earliest potato crops for the new season.  They are fully mature when harvested.


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## Brioche

panjandrum said:
			
		

> New potatoes include the varieties of potato that will yield the earliest potato crops for the new season. They are fully mature when harvested.


 
The British Potato Council says:
*Q: What are new potatoes?
A:* Potato varieties are classified according to their growing season. Potatoes that are taken out of the ground earlier than the others in the crop are called "new" or "earlies". The ones that are harvested later are known as "maincrop".


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## foxfirebrand

I agree that "french fried" has nothing to do with the spuds being cut into strips, or "shoestrings" as mentioned elsewhere.  "Frenched" or "french-cut" beans are green or stringbeans cut lenghtways instead of across, sometimes at a slight angle.  They are not julienned, which is to say not that finely sliced.

I understand perfectly that "shoestring" is descriptive of American fast-food fries.  But we also have "shoestring potatoes" which are a form of potato chips, marketed in cans and eaten cold.  Instead of being sliced thin, they are the size of fat, squared-off toothpicks.  Now that I think about it, you _could_ use the word "julienne" for these.  They're not very common-- I think they've been replaced by "Pringles," which are a hideous tasteless potato-chip simulacrum, an extruded starchy slurry baked into absolutely identical shapes and sold stacked in a can-like carton.  Well, maybe Pringles are available worldwide and consequently well-known-- I hope not.  When they first came out I was sure they'd be a dud-- I underestimated the American consumer base's propensity for salty textureless blandness.  "Taco shells" are an object lesson in that principle, and I should've applied it.
.


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## suzi br

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> "Pringles," which are a hideous tasteless potato-chip simulacrum, an extruded starchy slurry baked into absolutely identical shapes and sold stacked in a can-like carton. Well, maybe Pringles are available worldwide and consequently well-known-- I hope not. When they first came out I was sure they'd be a dud-- I underestimated the American consumer base's propensity for salty textureless blandness. "Taco shells" are an object lesson in that principle, and I should've applied it.
> .


 
I'm going to risk a LOL here - though I'm sure I''ll get moderated for chat --  
I think this thread only has a shoestring holding it to anything linguistic anyway!  btw - pringles are VERY big in the UK but Golden Wonder (who make crisps out of real potatoes rather than slurry are going BUST!


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## foxfirebrand

suzi br said:
			
		

> I'm going to risk a LOL here - though I'm sure I''ll get moderated for chat --
> I think this thread only has a shoestring holding it to anything linguistic anyway! btw - pringles are VERY big in the UK but Golden Wonder (who make crisps out of real potatoes rather than slurry are going BUST!


What a crying shame-- shame on all of us!

Hey, I think slurry is a suitable side-topic to "chips vs fries"-- it brings out the antagonism implicit in the term _versus.
.
_


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## zaffy

I believe these two examples are an AE way of ordering fries. Does BE replace "fries" with "chips" and these examples sound fine?

_1. Two large *fries* and one small, please.

2. Three *fries*, two large and one small, please _


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> Does BE replace "fries" with "chips" and these examples sound fine?


Where? 

In a fish and chip shop (a 'chippy'), we are likely to say 'Two large _portions of_ chips and a small one', but in a restaurant where they sell 'fries' (McDonald's, for instance) we would probably order 'fries.'

It's that old _context _thing again.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> in a restaurant where they sell 'fries' (McDonald's, for instance) we would probably order 'fries.'



So these two sound fine at McDonald's in BE?

_Two large *fries* and one small, please.
Three *fries*, two large and one small, please_


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## heypresto

Yes, I'm pretty sure that's what we say here. But I've only ever eaten in a McDonald's three times, so I'm no expert. 

But if you ordered chips, I don't suppose the smiling staff would be that bothered. They would understand what you meant.


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## Welsh_Sion

Yes, and the staff would also ask you if you wanted 'fries' with them. (My local KFC does, for example.)

I'm afraid I'm a little snooty and don't approve of this usage, nor indeed the whole idea of 'fries' - they're always 'chips' to me, even if they are decidedly emaciated, matchstick types which are the typical 'French fry'. Still, the language is as it is, so you just have to go along with it, I suppose.


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## zaffy

And if these were lying on the floor, are they 'three chips' or 'three fries' or either?


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## Welsh_Sion

For a Brit, probably either. As we stated earlier, you'd be understood. (But the middle one looks a bit more 'chippy' than 'a fry', to me!)


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## zaffy

There's some logic missing here, isn't there?

_I orderd *three fries*:_





_Tom picked up* three fries* off the floor and ate them:_


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## Welsh_Sion

Nope.

You ordered *three (portions) of fries*. In shorthand speech, 'Three fries' is therefore ok, because, perhaps you are buying them for Adam, Blake and Caroline.

*Tom picked up three (individual) fries/chips off the floor.*

Consider also.

'Cheese' is usually uncountable in English ... but ...

*There are three cheeses (= types of cheese) on the tray: Edam, Gouda and Brie.*


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## zaffy

Welsh_Sion said:


> Nope.


Yes, but what I meant was that there might be a misunderstanding.

_When I entered the restaurant, I noticed a tray with three chips.  _

Both pictures in#31 might fit that example, right?


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## Welsh_Sion

It might ... but my instinct would be to say that seeing *a tray with three fries indicates three individual fries*. (The ambiguity remains, I agree, but I've sort of dismissed it as not really possible.)

But *when you order three fries*, you are obviously *buying three portions.*


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## zaffy

So these two would work in a fish and chip shop, right? And would they work at McDonlad's or KFC?

_Two large *chips* and one small, please.
Three *chips*, two large and one small, please_


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## kentix

Context will rule. 

In AE the tray will have three orders of fries and the floor will have three "dead" French fries. If you want to eat their carcasses, that's on you.


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## zaffy

kentix said:


> In AE the tray will have three orders of fries and the floor will have three "dead" French fries.


Did you mean that the first picture in #31 shows "three fries" while the second "three French fries" in AE?


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## kentix

It shows three orders of fries, which look to be small fries.

The ones you find on the floor you could call fries or French fries.


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## Welsh_Sion

Interesting comment from @kentix, there. Maybe we're just less generous than the Americans, but those portions look like 'large' ones in a UK context!


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## kentix

It's hard to tell, but generally only "small" comes in a bag.





The ones in #31 are obviously not McDonald's fries. They might be a bit bigger.


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## Welsh_Sion

... in the US. 

Local KFC serves both varieties in bags.


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## kentix

Yes.


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## kentix

Wendy's doesn't appear to serve any size in a bag and I couldn't tell for sure with Burger King.


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## kentix

If there was one you could call it a French fry. 

"I was looking for change in my car seat but all I found was this dead French fry."


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## Welsh_Sion

A new Wendy's opened in Oxford this week. (First I've every seen in UK.) 

But all this is chit-chat. Let's return to the chase.


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## Roxxxannne

I'm late to this.  What are we chasing?  The difference between 3 fries and 3 fries? 
Context: when you are placing an order at a "slow-food" place in the US, you might ask for three fries.  You will get three piles of thinly-sliced, fried potatoes on three plates, not three pieces of fried potato.  If you walk into a greasy spoon and look at the floor and say facetiously to your friend "Ha! Three fries on the floor! Clearly dogs are not allowed in here" you have seen three individual pieces of thinly-sliced, fried potatoes (dead or only moribund: #36). If there were three orders of French fries on the floor, you'd have a different reaction: What the f***! Is that three orders of fries on the floor?!"


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## JulianStuart

Roxxxannne said:


> I'm late to this.  What are we chasing?  The difference between 3 fries and 3 fries?
> Context: when you are placing an order at a "slow-food" place in the US, you might ask for three fries.  You will get three piles of thinly-sliced, fried potatoes on three plates, not three pieces of fried potato.  If you walk into a greasy spoon and look at the floor and say facetiously to your friend "Ha! Three fries on the floor! Clearly dogs are not allowed in here" you have seen three individual pieces of thinly-sliced, fried potatoes (dead or only moribund: #36). If there were three orders of French fries on the floor, you'd have a different reaction: What the f***! Is that three orders of fries on the floor?!"



Nice illustration of the importance of context and logic in a question on the meaning of "three fries"


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## merquiades

It depends on each individual situation.

Your friend is having dinner. You sit down and say
Can I have a French fry?
Sure you can have three French fries if you want. I'm done.
It's obvious you are talking about pieces of French fried potatoes.

If you are a waitress and a customer says to you.  We'll have two fish sandwiches, a burger, three fries.  It refers to three plates filled with French fried potatoes.

Can't you do this in Polish?  Other languages can work like English.

I think it's called synecdoche. The name for a small part replaces the whole...
Four servings of French fried potatoes is long...


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## PaulQ

Cracker Jack said:


> Correct me if I'm mistaken but I have known somewhere that French fries actually is an American ''invention'' when a cook accidentally spilled potato strips to a metal box containing hot cooking oil and the rest is history...


There is a long article in Wikipedia on chips/fries/French fried potatoes, etc. They are all much the same thing - a potato sliced into fingers of various thicknesses and then fried in fat or oil.

They seem to have originated in Belgium or France prior to the 19th century but nobody is quite sure when or where. However, the English names did not appear until much later.

Thomas Jefferson is reported to have eaten "potatoes served in the French manner" at a White House dinner in 1802. But note, that he did not call them chips or French fries.

[Excessive quoting from dictionaries removed. DonnyB -moderator]


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## kentix

And in the interest of completeness, these are commercial "shoestring potatoes" in the US. They are eaten as a snack.





They are not as small as toothpicks but they are very thin and crunchy.

Here is a homemade version.




And no one has mentioned sweet potato fries. Those exist here, too. They are often thick.


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## suzi br

zaffy said:


> Yes, but what I meant was that there might be a misunderstanding.
> 
> _When I entered the restaurant, I noticed a tray with three chips.  _
> 
> Both pictures in#31 might fit that example, right?



It might fit the example in a way.

BUT -  then we're getting into the realms of fantasy, not real life.  Why would anyone need to say that there are three "single" chips / fries on a tray?  If I saw a few chips left on a tray -  "few" is the word I would reach for  - not a precise number.

In your original example it's the context of ordering a portion - no-one orders a single chip (or three) it means portion because of CONTEXT ... (did someone mentiono that before?   )
so there is ZERO scope for misunderstanding -  ta dah!


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## zaffy

suzi br said:


> BUT - then we're getting into the realms of fantasy, not real life. Why would anyone need to say that there are three "single" chips / fries on a tray? If I saw a few chips left on a tray - "few" is the word I would reach for - not a precise number.
> 
> In your original example it's the context of ordering a portion - no-one orders a single chip (or three) it means portion because of CONTEXT ... (did someone mentiono that before?  )
> so there is ZERO scope for misunderstanding - ta dah!



And in BE you can happilly say "Three fries, please" like AE speakers, but if you were to use the word "chips", would you prefer "Three chips, please" or "Three portions of chips, please"? Or does either sound fine?


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## suzi br

zaffy said:


> And in BE you can happilly say "Three fries, please" like AE speakers, but if you were to use the word "chips", would you prefer "Three chips, please" or "Three portions of chips, please"? Or does either sound fine?



I think this has been anwered already in the thread, to be honest!

I never say fries if I can help it, along with many older folk I think this is an unnecessary imported word.
If I was in a chip-shop I would probably ask for "portions" or "bags" of chips. In a restaurant I would probably say three lots of chips.


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## zaffy

merquiades said:


> Can't you do this in Polish? Other languages can work like English.


No, and I guess we are not alone in this regard.  

"Three fries" is literally three individual pieces.
While ordering, you would say "Three times fries, please". I guess German works the same way.


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## zaffy

suzi br said:


> I never say fries if I can help it, along with many older folk I think this is an unecessary imported word.
> If I was in a chip-shop I would probably ask for "portions" or "bags" of chips. In a restaurant I would probably say three lots of chips.


In other words, "three fries" means "three portions" or "three individual pieces", while "three chips" the latter only, right?


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## suzi br

I agree that it is possible to ask for three fries - where the term itself seems to encompass the sense of "portion" especially in the context of a US-style fast-food place. My knowledge of them is sketchy since I have hardly ever been in such a place to order anything.  

On reflection, however, I do think that in reality we are more like you, Zaffy, in the UK - I certainly  do ask for a portion/bag/plate of the food.


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## zaffy

suzi br said:


> I think this has been anwered already in the thread, to be honest!





suzi br said:


> On reflection, however, I do think that in reality we are more like you


That's why it is all confusing to non-natives and the difference between AE/BE adds even more confusion. Plus I got the impression Welsh_Sion agreed with me on "Three chips please" in #35, so please don't get angry with me asking.


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## Edinburgher

zaffy said:


> In other words, "three fries" means "three portions" or "three individual pieces", while "three chips" the latter only, right?


No.  In the context of ordering, "three chips" would be understood to mean "three portions of chips", especially if modified.  Many chip shops offer several different portion sizes, and you'd be more likely to omit "portions of" when adding the word "small" or "large".

Of course, if you say: _Look, there are three chips on the floor!_, it would not be understood that three portions had fallen on the floor, but that only three individual pieces were lying there (just the same as if you had said "three fries").


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## suzi br

zaffy said:


> That's why it is all confusing to non-natives and the difference between AE/BE adds even more confusion. Plus I got the impression Welsh_Sion agreed with me on "Three chips please" in #35, so please don't get angry with me asking.


I wasn't angry - and that's why I added my "on reflection" - the BE / AE difference is certainly at play here.


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## merquiades

zaffy said:


> That's why it is all confusing to non-natives and the difference between AE/BE adds even more confusion. Plus I got the impression Welsh_Sion agreed with me on "Three chips please" in #35, so please don't get angry with me asking.


It is only confusing if you want to be a perfectionist to the minute detail.
I have been to Britain, Cheshire even, and got along very well. I'm sure I ate potato dishes as well. I didn't really know how to order beer drinks but it didn't stop me. 
If you order three fries or say you dropped three fries on the floor you'll be understood.


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## zaffy

merquiades said:


> If you order three fries or say you dropped three fries on the floor you'll be understood.


And if I said these two to you, would you imagine a different shape/kind of the fries?

"We all ordered fries, but they were horrible."
"We all ordered French fries, but they were horrible."


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## JulianStuart

zaffy said:


> And if I said these two to you, would you imagine a different shape/kind of the fries?
> 
> "We all ordered fries, but they were horrible."
> "We all ordered French fries, but they were horrible."


In the US, "fries" (IN THAT CONTEXT) is simply a shortened form of "French fries".  Sometimes, other shapes are on offer but they would be specified like "cottage fries" or "home fries".


merquiades said:


> It is only confusing if you want to be a perfectionist to the minute detail.


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## merquiades

zaffy said:


> And if I said these two to you, would you imagine a different shape/kind of the fries?
> 
> "We all ordered fries, but they were horrible."
> "We all ordered French fries, but they were horrible."


No, no difference at all. French fries is just more precise and maybe a tad more formal.
If you want huge fries, some people call them home fries.


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## JulianStuart

merquiades said:


> No, no difference at all. French fries is just more precise and maybe a tad more formal.
> If you want huge fries, some people call them home fries.
> 
> Edit: Julien, Julian, what are cottage fries?


A variety of "home fries  Here's an example.


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## merquiades

JulianStuart said:


> A variety of "home fries  Here's an example.


Thanks. I looked at the images!  I guess I never knew there was a word for that


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## kentix

Everywhere you go, fries are different. One of the drawing cards of places to eat is their fries. People have definite preferences. They are not all going to look or taste the same. They are longer, shorter, thicker, thinner, with skin on, without, flavored with spices or not and fried in different kinds of oil. They can be curly, straight, waffled or wedges. French fries is a general term.


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## JulianStuart

merquiades said:


> Thanks. I looked at the images!  I guess I've never knew there was a word for that


Thanks - this reinforces the notion that _within_ AE there is variation and _within_ BE there is variation and that seeking a black and white pronouncement on "AE versus BE" is frequently a waste of effort


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## zaffy

And does a BE speaker imagine a different size/kind of fries hearing these? 

"We all ordered fries, but they were horrible."
"We all ordered chips, but they were horrible."


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## Wordy McWordface

Fries: thin and dry







Chips: fat and soft





Not the same thing at all.


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## merquiades

JulianStuart said:


> Thanks - this reinforces the notion that _within_ AE there is variation and _within_ BE there is variation and that seeking a black and white pronouncement on "AE versus BE" is frequently a waste of effort


Yes, I'm sure there are lots of regional terms for types of fries!

@zaffy I guess if I had a formal restaurant I'd call them French fried potatoes. A bit less formal French fries. And if I owned a fast food joint I'd put fries on the menu. This might be just me though.


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## Welsh_Sion

To me, based on  my intimate knowledge of my local KFC, the local chippy and my mum's homemade variety.

Fries are the matchstick like potatoes you get served with your KFC. (They have become thicker recently here following a nationwide campaign by one woman via social media, so they are not as thin as they used to be.)

Chips are thicker again, more 'meaty' if you like, soggy or crisp, served in a restaurant or in a chippy for take away, wrapped in paper. (No longer in the traditional newspaper as, I believe - perhaps, wrongly - that health and safety made a big fuss about newsprint affecting the quality of the chips.)

These latter can come in deep-fried varieties or oven-ready, the latter you warm up in your oven, and safer to cook than the former.

As to mum's home-cooked chips ... well, need we say more?


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## zaffy

Wordy McWordface said:


> Chips: fat and soft





Welsh_Sion said:


> Chips are thicker again, more 'meaty' if you like,



And in AE those fat and thick ones are just fries, without French, right?


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## merquiades

After seeing Sion and Wordy's posts,  I think "chips" are home fries.


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## Wordy McWordface

_And in AE those fat and thick ones are just fries, without French, right?_
No. If AmE speakers want the thick chunky ones, they ask for 'steak fries' (or possibly 'home fries' in some regions?) * 
These are not the same as British chips, but they're the nearest equivalent.

As JS explained in #62, if an AmE doesn't specify what kind of fries he wants, he'll say 'fries' as a shortened form of 'French fries' (generic McD style). If he wants a different type - disc-shaped cottage fries, for example - he'll ask for them by name.

*amended following Kentix's correction below


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## merquiades

zaffy said:


> And in AE those fat and thick ones are just fries, without French, right?


No. All are varieties of French.


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## zaffy

merquiades said:


> No. All are French


So the thick ones are "French home fries" in AE?


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## Myridon

Welsh_Sion said:


> Fries are the matchstick like potatoes you get served with your KFC.


In the US, KFC has only very recently started selling French fries.  In 2019, they started selling "Secret Recipe Fries" that have the chicken seasoning on them.  I don't think that's what you're getting in the UK.


zaffy said:


> And in AE those fat and thick ones are just fries, without French, right?


No, they are still (French) fries. I might call them steak fries.  For me, "home fries" are more randomly shaped and are a breakfast dish more like hash browns.


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## merquiades

No Zaffy.  Home fries are a fatter juicier version of French fries. They are a category of French fries but saying "French home fries" is too much. One or the other


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## zaffy

And is the "French" prefix more common in AE or BE?


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## Wordy McWordface

We don't really use 'French' all in BrE.

We have 'chips', which is the generic term, and 'fries', which only refers to the thin dry things that you get in fast-food outlets.

You might occasionally see 'French fries' written on a menu in a restaurant or a packet in the freezer aisle, but nobody says it.


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## merquiades

I have also heard "to French fry" used as a verb.

Steak fries sounds like they are high quality French fries.


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## Welsh_Sion

Gut (!) feeling.

Asking for or being asked by the staff of the KFC or other fast food chain if you want 'French fries' is mostly unnecessary over here. 'Fries' suffices.

Buying them (frozen) in British supermarkets they're usually labelled as 'French Fries'.

This is in broad agreement with Wordy, as far as I can see.


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## kentix

Here the whole category is fries. You can put something in front of it to be more specific.

Curly fries




Steak fries




Waffle fries




Someone preparing crinkle cut fries




At a restaurant, you don't necessarily get a choice. You get the kind they make. Occasionally you'll have a choice between two kinds.

Steak fries are steak fries I think because they are a better complement to a hearty steak. You don't have to eat them with steak but I think that's the idea behind the name.

Waffle fries, for instance, wouldn't commonly be called French fries, but if you ordered French fries you might be served waffle fries if that's how they make their fries.


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## JulianStuart

Wordy McWordface said:


> We don't really use 'French' all in BrE.
> 
> We have 'chips' which is the generic term and 'fries' which specifically refers to the thin dry things that you get in fast-food outlets.
> 
> You might occasionally see 'French fries' written on a menu, but nobody says it.


And in the US, using the word French is quite formal when ordering (or describing detritus on the floor ).


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## zaffy

And do you have this kind of shape? Very popular here in Poland.


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## Welsh_Sion

And here are the UK's version of crinkle cut chips:

https://th.bing.com/th/id/R.1b6b5fe8b66413369be4fa48c87e5e24?rik=MEqPIOB+pPexrA&pid=ImgRaw&r=0

And no, UK KFC's don't have as yet the special KFC coated type of fry.)


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## merquiades

I almost always say "French". Incidentally I have heard it reduced to something like "I'll have an order of F-ch fries".

In the US KFC traditionally serves mashed potatoes, not French fries.


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## Welsh_Sion

Not to mention that some American went through a phrase of calling them "Freedom Fries".

And that the UK has crisps (US: 'chips') which are called 'French fries' and come in different flavours: https://www.britishcornershop.co.uk/img/large/WSCASE2652.jpg)

But, I hope all this doesn't make zaffy's head spin!


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## heypresto

merquiades said:


> "I'll have an order of F-ch fries".


How do you pronounce 'F-ch'?


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## kentix

Myridon said:


> For me, "home fries" are more randomly shaped and are a breakfast dish more like hash browns.


Yes, all the recipes that come up for a search of home fries show something like this:





You eat them off a plate with a fork. I would not call those French fries.


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## Roxxxannne

zaffy said:


> And do you have this kind of shape? Very popular here in Poland.
> 
> View attachment 63983


Yes, those are crinkle-cut fries or crinkle-cut french fries.


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## Wordy McWordface

kentix said:


> Yes, all the recipes that come up for a search of home fries show something like this:
> 
> View attachment 63984
> 
> You eat them off a plate with a fork. I would not call those French fries.


Thanks for the clarification.

Those are 'sautéed potatoes' over here.  Yes, I know the double past participle makes francophones wince, but that's what they're called.

I've amended my post above, #74.


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## kentix

The thing is, I believe I have heard things like steak fries be referred to as home fries here and there. So it might possibly be another thing that varies by location. But the pan-fried meaning seems greatly predominant.


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## Roxxxannne

merquiades said:


> Yes, I'm sure there are lots of regional terms for types of fries!


Those home fries in #90 are not just sautéed, they've been parboiled or steamed a little first.

There are probably regional names, but within a region there are many kinds of fried potatoes with correspondingly different names for them.

No one has yet mentioned smashed fried potatoes, so I will.
Boil or steam some small Yukon Gold or red potatoes, skin on, until they begin to get tender.  Let them dry. Give them a bit of a whack with the bottom of a pint measuring cup or a small saucepan so that the skin splits and they flatten a little. The flatter they are the, more crispy they will be when cooked. Fry in a quarter inch of oil until browned.  Drain on paper towels, sprinkle  with salt and eat more than you intended to.  There will be no leftovers.


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## Wordy McWordface

Came across this the other day:  

British Problems


__
		https://www.reddit.com/r/britishproblems/comments/qr3s85


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## ewie

Wordy McWordface said:


> Came across this the other day:
> 
> British Problems



Like (I think) other BrE old farts, I make a deliberate point of asking for _chips_ when I'm in McDonalds ~ about once a decade.


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## sound shift

Hmmm .... A second correction is in order there: Fish and chips shop.


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## merquiades

A long time ago I thought people got bags of potato chips (think of Lays and Pringles) at fish and chips shops.


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## Wordy McWordface

merquiades said:


> A long time ago I thought people got bags of potato chips (think of Lays and Pringles) at fish and chips shops.




It's an easy mistake to make. I wonder how many British people think that y'all pour gravy on these:


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## RM1(SS)

panjandrum said:


> Cuchu's steak fries (we'd call them wedges) are very close triangular cousins to British Chips.


Steak fries that I buy aren't wedges -- they're oversized fries, rectangular rather than square in cross-section, three or four times as wide and perhaps a bit thicker. (Certainly thicker than McD's!)


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## Wordy McWordface

RM1(SS) said:


> Steak fries that I buy aren't wedges -- they're oversized fries, rectangular rather than square in cross-section, three or four times as wide and perhaps a bit thicker. (Certainly thicker than McD's!)


And looking remarkably similar to British "chips".


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## RM1(SS)

JulianStuart said:


> A variety of "home fries  Here's an example.


Those are just plain "fried potatoes" to me.


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## zaffy

I guess 'small chips' in BE and 'small fries' in AE are countable, aren't they? 

We might say these, can't we? 
AE: Two small fries please.
BE: Two small chips, please.

Now, when we're talking about one small fries/chips, do I add an article? 

A: What did you order?  
B: A burger, a small coke and *a* small fries.
B: A burger, a small coke and *a* small chips.


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## heypresto

zaffy said:


> A: What did you order?
> B: A burger, a small coke and *a* small fries.
> B: A burger, a small coke and *a* small chips.




In places like, McDonald's for instance, where they call chips 'fries', we would call them 'fries.' In other places, where they call fries 'chips', we would call them 'chips.'

But either way, 'a small chips/fries' would be correct in this context.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> In places like, McDonald's for instance, where they call chips 'fries', we would call them 'fries.'


But I believe you'd say "fries" while ordering only, and then, say back home, you would tell your family you had chips, wouldn't you?


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## heypresto

Well, some might, I guess, but no, I don't think so. McDonald's and fries sort of go together.


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## ewie

heypresto said:


> In places like, McDonald's for instance, where they call chips 'fries', we would call them 'fries.'


I always very pointedly call them _chips_. On my decennial visits to McDonalds. And they are always _always_ *always* cold🤬


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## RM1(SS)

zaffy said:


> B: A burger, a small coke and *a* small fries.


I would say "and a small fry".


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