# All dialects: car, automobile



## kifaru

Is it common to refer to an automobile as Arabiyya? I think I heard some people referring to a car as an Arabiyya.


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## MarcB

Yes in Egypt and I think Sudan. Other dialects say sayara.


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## djara

In Tunisia, for a car we say _karhba_, probably an inversion of MSA _kahrabaa2_ (electricity)!


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## Ibn Monjur

I have heard this word to mean car in Egypt but my understanding of the origin of this word is to mean something like "a wagon wheel" or "a cart". I think it loosely translates to a vehicle with storage space at the back like a pick up truck or something of that sort.

سيارة is more used for normal cars but again the original meaning is somewhat different. It actually means "a group of people travelling".

The question of the "correct" word is a VERY hard one to answer as cars were created recently and so a word had to be invented in order to accommodate for it.


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## MarcB

أُتُومُوبِيل also exists.
Ultimately since a car is a new concept colloquial Arabic has more than one word, most are derived from classical Arabic.


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## Ibn Monjur

Yes this was the point I was trying to make. Due to it being a new invention, the language had to accomodate for it by creating a new word. Thus, there is not a "correct" word for car. (Coming from a Classical or Modern Standard viewpoint)

However, as a side point, I dont think the word you provided comes from Classical Arabic at all. In fact, I believe that it is just a transliteration of "automobile" into Arabic. This is similar to that of the word for bus. (باص)

I understand you said, "most are derived from classical Arabic" but I thought I would mention it for potential learners that might be interested rather than anything else.
I am pretty sure you knew this already. 

Your thoughts are most welcome.

Ibn Monjur


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## ayed

In Saudi:
1. "car" (*مركبة*)markabah is written in formal records or registration card or Driving license...etc.
2.You may hear a traffic officer or a police man say "_markabah--_*مركبة*"or"_sayyarah_" when talking on air(Radio or TV)
3.Some people may use "_maTiyyah--_*مطية*" or "_raHilah--_*راحلة*" or"_markoob--_*مركوب*" or"dabbah--*دابة*"jokingly or figuratively


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## turkiyya

i think sayyara is the most proper along with markabah..


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## Mahaodeh

Mostly, I've heard markabah as a translation to vehicle since it applies to anything from a motorcycle to 16 wheel trailor.


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## Mahaodeh

[Moderator's Note: The following discussion is split from this thread. Cherine]


inquisitiveness1 said:


> although then I would ask if فيتر with the meaning of "car" exists as a standalone word


No. At the very beginning, they used طرمبيل for car from English automobile. It was very quickly replaced with سيارة


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## apricots

I've heard Palestinians use طوبيل as well but I think it's pretty rare.

[Moderator Note: As a matter of courtesy, please do not edit your post after a reply in a way that invalidates the reply or makes it nonsensical.]


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## elroy

طُمبيل is used, but it’s rare and generational (younger people don’t use it).  I’ve never heard طوبيل.


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## apricots

Typo. I meant Tombīl


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## elroy

It’s pronounced _ṭumbīl_.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> طُمبيل is used, but it’s rare and generational (younger people don’t use it).



Just a stab in the dark here, it could be that both طرمبيل and طمبيل are from an Ottoman Turkish word that ultimately came from English automobile. In Iraq it has totally fallen out of use in Arabic but I came across it when taking a class in Kurdish. I was thinking, Kurdistan was also under the Ottoman Turks, so I don't see it as far fetched.


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## cherine

I don't think it's related to Ottoman rule, Maha. The word was also used in Egypt (you can hear it in old movies, it's no longer in use now) though I'm not sure whether it came from English or French but it doesn't really matter as both languages have the word "automobile". It is not very difficult to make the relation between أوتوموبيل - تومبيل - ترومبيل .


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## elroy

cherine said:


> It is not very difficult to make the relation between أوتوموبيل - تومبيل - ترومبيل .


 

It _is_ interesting that an "r" seems to have been added in the Iraqi version.  طْرُمبيل reminds me of one of the Palestinian words for "gas station" - طْرُمبا; I wonder if there's a relation there.


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## Hemza

Mahaodeh said:


> Just a stab in the dark here, it could be that both طرمبيل and طمبيل are from an Ottoman Turkish word that ultimately came from English *automobile*.



Which itself come from French _automobile _ (that we may literaly translate in Arabic by ذو التحرك؟) which is not that much used today, _voiture _is more common (may be because it is shorter?).

In Morocco, most people use the French word or rather, a slaughtered version of _automobile _which is طوموبيل but in the South as in Mauritania, there is a word which I think, may come from the first part of _*auto*mobile_, وتى (wuta). سيارة may be used by people but وتى is more common.


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## Mahaodeh

elroy said:


> طْرُمبيل reminds me of one of the Palestinian words for "gas station" - طْرُمبا; I wonder if there's a relation there.


I was told once that طرمبا comes from 'auto-pump', now I don't know how reliable this information is, but if it is reliable then three things happened here: 1. the au of auto has been omitted; 2. the t has become emphatic (these two seem to be common in many dialects); and 3. an r is added after auto.

I'm thinking, also a stab in the dark, it might be related to the British English tendency of adding an r sound after vowels in some words: example: drawing becomes drawring and idea becomes idear - specifically when you continue speaking after the vowel. So maybe they hear the British pronounce a slight r and they just copied it.

I have to say though that I don't really notice this when it happens so I don't recall hearing autormobile; but then again the British were in the Middle East 90 years ago and this r might have been more common then. I don't know.


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## djara

Mahaodeh said:


> I was told once that طرمبا comes from 'auto-pump'


In Tunisia, طرمبا or طرمبة is a general word for pump.
A possible etymology is to be found here  (basically from Italian _tromba_, maybe through Ottoman Turkish _tulumba _طولومبه )


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## cherine

elroy said:


> It _is_ interesting that an "r" seems to have been added in the Iraqi version.  طْرُمبيل reminds me of one of the Palestinian words for "gas station" - طْرُمبا; I wonder if there's a relation there.


I don't think it's the same thing, because I believe طرمبة/طرمبا (which is used in Egypt as well, but mostly/only for water pump) comes from the French trompe à eau.
As for أوتومبيل receiving an r I think it's related to the level of education, seeing that it was mostly less educated people who pronounced it this way.


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## Mahaodeh

cherine said:


> comes from the French trompe à eau.


So the information I was told was not reliable.

As I said, it was a stab in the dark .


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## Dhawawdi

In Algeria its طونوبيل (supposedly French in origin) or كروصة (supposedly Spanish in origin) in the western Oran area they also say لوطو.


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## I.K.S.

Yes, this goes to explain the fact that some eastern regions use the word; El_lotto, In the west they generally use the arabized word طوموبيلة, others say مركوب which also mean; land transport in general, سيارة is of a lesser usage being a too cultured term (mostly heard in movies and other TV programs).


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## Hemza

إتحادية قبائل الشاوية said:


> Yes, this goes to explain the fact that some eastern regions use the word; El_lotto, In the west they generally use the arabized word طوموبيلة, others say مركوب which also mean; land transport in general, سيارة is of a lesser usage being a too cultured term (mostly heard in movies and other TV programs).



I didn't know about مركوب being used this way. As for سيارة, I noticed it is much more used in Hassania speaking areas than in the rest of Morocco.


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