# ma zainstalowany = has installed?



## kamper

1)
ww.google.com/support/talkgadget/bin/answer.py?hl=pl&answer=66853
*Mam zainstalowany* odtwarzacz Flash, ale gadżet go nie wykrywa.
vs.
ww.google.com/support/talkgadget/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=66853
*I've installed* Flash Player but the gadget tells me otherwise.

2)
office.microsoft.com/pl-pl/powerpoint/HP052371751045.aspx
Aby móc korzystać z tej procedury, trzeba korzystać z systemu Microsoft Windows 2000 z pakietem Service Pack 3 (lub nowszym) lub systemu Microsoft Windows XP oraz *mieć zainstalowany* odpowiedni sprzęt zgodnie z instrukcjami producenta.
vs.
office.microsoft.com/cs-cz/powerpoint/HP052371751029.aspx
Následující postup můžete využít pouze v případě, pokud používáte operační systém Microsoft Windows 2000 s aktualizací Service Pack 3 (a vyšší) nebo systém Microsoft Windows XP a *máte nainstalován* příslušný hardware dle pokynů výrobce.
vs.
office.microsoft.com/en-us/powerpoint/HP052371751033.aspx
To use this procedure, you must be using Microsoft Windows 2000 with Service Pack 3 (or later) or Microsoft Windows XP and *have* the proper hardware *installed* according to the manufacturer's instructions.

3)
happy-oceny.blog.onet.pl/2,ID150285526,DA2006-11-18,index.html
W archiwum *masz użyty* język angielski, oraz w tym kalendarzu. 

****************

As you can see, e.g. in the first group, "zainstalowany" does not serve as an attributive adjective to modify "odtwarzacz Flash", but it serves as part of the structure "mieć zainstalowany", right? (Generally most attributive adjectives in Polish are placed after substantives they modify.)

Therefore I'm wondering if such things as _*(present/past)*_ _*perfect tenses*_ (not the "perfective aspect") really exist in Polish/Czech in the form of mieć/mít + past passive participle ??? Many thanks in advance!


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## Thomas1

Hi, and welcome to the WR forums, kamper. 

Shortly yes (if I've understood well what you're asking about).

_W tamtym mieszkaniu miałem zainstalowany lepszy system centralnego ogrzewania._

Your third example doesn't sound good to me. It would better to give this structure a berth in the sentence provided.


Tom


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## kamper

Thomas1 said:


> Hi, and welcome to the WR forums, kamper.
> 
> Shortly yes (if I've understood well what you're asking about).
> 
> _W tamtym mieszkaniu miałem zainstalowany lepszy system centralnego ogrzewania._
> 
> Your third example doesn't sound good to me. It would better to give this structure a berth in the sentence provided.
> 
> 
> Tom


 
Hi Tomas, thank you for the reply!

But why have I never heard of this form of perfect tense from any grammar books of Polish/Czech or other Slavic languages?

plus, most importantly of all, as one might point out, such a form as mieć/mít + past passive participle seems NOT to be so commonly represented in most of Polish, Czech or other Slavic languages, does it?

e.g. Do you say "*mam zobaczony*.." to mean "*I have seen*.."? No, you hardly do, as the results on google suggest.
(ww.google.cn/search?hl=zh-CN&q=%22mam+zobaczony%22&btnG=Google+%E6%90%9C%E7%B4%A2&meta=&aq=f)

e.g. Do you say "*mam znaleziony*.." to mean "*I have found*.."? Hm, very few native Polish speakers would do, as it seems.
(ww.google.cn/search?complete=1&hl=zh-CN&newwindow=1&q=%22mam+znaleziony%22&meta=&aq=f)

And I've read a great many bilingual or multilingual comparative texts where the Polish and English versions are both available, the English "I have seen" being translated into "widziałem(-am)" or "zobaczyłem(-am)". However, not a single time did I see it being translated into "mam widziany.." or "mam zobaczony.."! And I think if you translated it so that'd be terrible!

So why the earth? *Is the form of "mieć/mít + past passive participle" merely applicable for some specific verbs?*


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## JakubikF

In my opinion because verb "mieć" in the constructions that you mentioned is not an equivalent of English "I have + p. participle". I am not sure if I am correct but such structures should rather be translated in this way: "Mam (to) zainstalowane." -> "I have GOT it installed"


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## jazyk

> In my opinion because verb "mieć" in the constructions that you mentioned is not an equivalent of English "I have + p. participle".


Exactly. This Polish construction is equivalent to Spanish tener + past participle, in case Kamper knows some Spanish.

_W tamtym mieszkaniu miałem zainstalowany lepszy system centralnego ogrzewania.
En ese/aquel apartamento tenía instalado un sistema mejor de calefacción central. 
_


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## Thomas1

The Polish construction doesn't say who's done the job, it says that you have this thing done.

Indeed the examples provided you sound poor in Polish as well as many verbs that theoretically could be used with it. So answering your qeustion, yes it's compliant only with some verbs.

I suppose English in this case might use the following pattern:
have object past participle
so 
W tamtym mieszkaniu miałem zainstalowany lepszy system centralnego ogrzewania.
would tranlate:
In that flat I (had) had a better central heating system installed.

Jazyk's Spanish translation a good comparison, what's your mother tongue, perhaps we could find some parallels in it?

Tom


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## kamper

Thank you all for the helpful information, esp. for Tomas' detailed analysis!

Tom, mój język ojczysty to chiński, a więc trudno oczekiwać, żebym znalazł cokolwiek "paralelnego" do porównania

btw. with regard to the sample sentence Jazyk has provided:

Jazyk, I know some Spanish but I've never heard of this form either. What you've written is really something new to me

Thus, mieć coś zrobione = tener hecho algo, both meaning "to have/get something done", right? But do they exclude possibility of the *agent* being the subject of this action? Namely, if "Ktoś ma coś zrobione"/"Alguien tiene hecho algo", does that necessarily mean "Ktoś nie zrobił(-a) czegoś *sam*"/"Alguien no hizo algo *su mismo*", or is it _also_ possible for the agent "ktoś"/"alguien" to be the subject of that action?

e.g."Mam kupioną tę książkę", "Tengo comprado este libro", do they indicate "Someone else has bought this book", or "Either I have, or someone else has bought this book"? I just want to confirm this from you, thanks!

In addition, is the declension of the participle after "mieć" always subject to the inflection of the _object_? e.g. "Mam *kupioną* tę *książkę*" -> "Nie mam *kupionej* tej *książki*", right? And does the participle in the structure "mieć + participle" always have to be derived from a *perfective verb*? i.e. What about "Mam instalowany(-ego, -ą)" and "Mam kupowany(-ego, -ą)", does anything alike exist in Polish? 

I searched google for such strings but it gave very few hits; and it seems no objects would be attached to the participle "instalowany" or "kupowany", at least in those results; so do they become *intransitive* verbs in such cases?

(plus, one more off-topic question for Jazyk, pls: will you ever say "tenho comprado um livro" instead of "comprei um livro" in colloquial Portuguese? If you do, and if the Portuguese "tenho comprado" and the Spanish "tengo comprado" in the sentence I provided above are comparable, then how do you distinguish between "I have bought a book" and "I have a book bought"?

You see, in Spanish "compré/he comprado un libro" means "I bought/have bought a book" and "tengo comprado un libro" means "I have a book bought"/"I've made someone buy a book".

and in Portuguese "comprei/tenho comprado um livro" means "I bought/have bought a book", then how to say "I have a book bought"? Simply by moving the participle after the object saying "Tenho um livro comprado"? Just as "*ter* o hardware adequado *instalado*" on office.microsoft.com/pt-pt/powerpoint/HP052371752070.aspx?)


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## mcibor

Hi Kamper! Good luck in learning Polish.

Yes, it is possible to say: "Mam instalowany(-ego, -ą)" and "Mam kupowany(-ego, -ą)".
It means, that somebody is installing this, buying this for me right now (while I'm saying this to somebody).

This contruction doesn't say at all who is doing this to me, you, him, etc:

Masz instalowany system?
Ma teraz instalowane ogrzewanie podlogowe - information that somebody has his central floor heating installed.

So theoretically I, you, he can have done it alone, but as we have easier constructions for that:
Instaluję coś, kupuję coś, układam sobie ogrzewanie podłogowe
it's not used in this context.

Though "Mam instalowany system" I have my computer system installed, can be used even if I am doing it to my computer. But you won't know that it was me.


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## mcibor

There is also construction with "dokonany" "niedokonany" verbs (I'm not sure how to translate that... sorry)

For example verb to paint: malować (ndk) and pomalować (dk)
Mam malowany pokój - I have my room painted (now, at this moment)
Mam pomalowany pokój - somebody painted my room (before, not now)

Hope this doesn't stress you.

And just to answer your question, in Polish there's nothing like present or past perfect, and while learning English we have lots of problems understanding that concept.


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## jazyk

> There is also construction with "dokonany" "niedokonany" verbs (I'm not sure how to translate that... sorry)


Perfective and imperfective, respectively.


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## kamper

mcibor said:


> Hi Kamper! Good luck in learning Polish.
> 
> Yes, it is possible to say: "Mam instalowany(-ego, -ą)" and "Mam kupowany(-ego, -ą)".
> It means, that somebody is installing this, buying this for me right now (while I'm saying this to somebody).
> 
> This contruction doesn't say at all who is doing this to me, you, him, etc:
> 
> Masz instalowany system?
> Ma teraz instalowane ogrzewanie podlogowe - information that somebody has his central floor heating installed.
> 
> So theoretically I, you, he can have done it alone, but as we have easier constructions for that:
> Instaluję coś, kupuję coś, układam sobie ogrzewanie podłogowe
> it's not used in this context.
> 
> Though "Mam instalowany system" I have my computer system installed, can be used even if I am doing it to my computer. But you won't know that it was me.


 
Thank u so much, mcibor!!

So you mean 
"Mam zainstalowany system" = "I have the system installed"
and
"Mam instalowany system" = "I'm having the system installed" or "I have the system being installed",
and by saying this I _myself_ can also be meant to be the subject of this action, right?

Moreover, to my surprise, according to the results on google, "Mam kupowany.." is never followed directly by an _object_, e.g. on the page wizaz.pl/produkty/baza/produkt.php?produkt=6205, where one guy says "*Ja mam kupowany* w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17 (na Europę jest niższy fltr?)".

Is this grammatically correct in formal Polish? Or should that be "Ja mam *go* kupowany w Stanach"?


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## kamper

jazyk said:


> Perfective and imperfective, respectively.


Jazyk, could you give me some tips as regards the question I asked you above? Many thanks ^_^


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## Piotr_WRF

mcibor said:


> And just to answer your question, in Polish there's nothing like present or past perfect, and while learning English we have lots of problems understanding that concept.



Past perfect certainly exists in Polish, although it's very seldom used to that degree that it might sound quite awkward to some people. Most of the time the simple past tense is used instead.


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## mcibor

*Ja mam kupowany* w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17 (na Europę jest niższy fltr?).
is perfectly OK. However it needs a previous sentence where you will say what it is you have.

E.g.
- Ja swój krem kupiłam w Anglii, a ty? 
- Ja mam kupowany w Stanach. (The object is still krem, but you don't have to repeat it)

Construction:
Ja mam *go *kupowany w Stanach is incorrect.
It will be more correct to say
Ja mam go kupionego w Stanach, though it's rarely used.


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## njumi

For me *ja mam kupowany* sounds strange.

Ja mam kupowany w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17.

I would say:

(noun) Kupiłem w Stanach.
Mam (noun) kupiony w Stanach.
Mam (noun) będący w sprzedaży w Stanach.
Mam (noun) pochodzący ze Stanów.


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## mcibor

Piotr_WRF said:


> Past perfect certainly exists in Polish, although it's very seldom used to that degree that it might sound quite awkward to some people. Most of the time the simple past tense is used instead.



Can you give any examples?

I know that we had czas zaprzeszły:
Ja spotkałem był

Also we had something strange (for me)

_Zrobiwszy porządek w domu, poszedł na spacer_

I don't know even how to name it


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## mcibor

Njumi,

Yes, it sounds strange, but it's grammatically correct.
If you really want to say it as a normal person would say it, it would be:

- Ja swój krem kupiłam w Anglii, a ty? 
- (A) ja w Stanach.


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## jazyk

> Thus, mieć coś zrobione = tener hecho algo, both meaning "to have/get something done", right? But do they exclude possibility of the *agent* being the subject of this action? Namely, if "Ktoś ma coś zrobione"/"Alguien tiene hecho algo", does that necessarily mean "Ktoś nie zrobił(-a) czegoś *sam*"/"Alguien no hizo algo *su mismo*", or is it _also_ possible for the agent "ktoś"/"alguien" to be the subject of that action?


Yes, it is. Tengo escrita una carta may mean that I have written it and now it's ready for me to do whatever I want with it, like take it to the post office.



> (plus, one more off-topic question for Jazyk, pls: will you ever say "tenho comprado um livro" instead of "comprei um livro" in colloquial Portuguese? If you do, and if the Portuguese "tenho comprado" and the Spanish "tengo comprado" in the sentence I provided above are comparable, then how do you distinguish between "I have bought a book" and "I have a book bought"?


Tenho comprado um livro doesn't make sense in Portugueser. Ter + past participle in Portuguese refers to recurring things, like English present perfect continuous (I have been buying a book ). If you have a plural object, then it makes sense: Tenho comprado livros = I have been buying books. Portughese tenho comprado does NOT correspond to Spanish tengo/he comprado or English I have bought. For Spanish he comprado/compré and English I (have) bought, we have only one option: comprei.



> and in Portuguese "comprei/tenho comprado um livro" means "I bought/have bought a book", then how to say "I have a book bought"?


Neither Spanish nor Portuguese has really an exact translation for to have something done. You have to analyze case by case. If you want to say I have a book bought, in Portuguese you'd have to use a circumlocution like Alguém me comprou um livro/Pediu para alguém me (fazer o favor de) comprar um livro, etc.

Remember! This is the Slavic forum. Portuguese and Spanish are not Slavic, so some serious editing could be done here. If you have more questions, please go to the Spanish and/or the Portuguese forum.


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## kknd

for me polish translation for 1) has resultative meaning and is rather loose translation (it conveys the sense and is correct! i'd even say that it's nice one!); i'd rather translate it like this: _Zainstalowałem odtwarzacz Flash, ale gadżet go nie wykrywa _(lit. _tells otherwise_).

notice that in 2) there is direct locution ('you') while in polish sentence is impersonal. _mieć coś zrobione_ in polish has a counterpart in english: _have something done_ (which suits explanation for 1) ), but i think you cannot extend it use on whole present perfect.

3) is not natural (maybe even incorrect), it'd be better to express it in direct manner ('you'): _w archiwum oraz w tym kalendarzu używasz (korzystarz z) języka angielskiego_.

i wouldn't use counstruction _mam kupowany_ either (i feel it's incorrect), because it hasn't got sense of completeness (result): _mam kupiony_; it still means that something was bought to you by somebody else and it's not important to say by who (you put stress on thing bought). it feels that it's correct when compared to _mam strzyżone włosy._ both are iterative though and i'm not sure if one wanted to express this.


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## Piotr_WRF

mcibor said:


> Can you give any examples?
> 
> I know that we had czas zaprzeszły:
> Ja spotkałem był



Yes, that's Past Perfect. Look for the English examples further down on the Wiki page.



mcibor said:


> Also we had something strange (for me)
> 
> _Zrobiwszy porządek w domu, poszedł na spacer_
> 
> I don't know even how to name it



It's called imiesłów przysłówkowy uprzedni.
The English translation would be: "Having cleaned up the house, he went for a walk."


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## JakubikF

njumi said:


> .
> Mam (noun) kupiony w Stanach.
> Mam (noun) będący w sprzedaży w Stanach.
> Mam (noun) pochodzący ze Stanów.




What is that!? It doesn't look like correct Polish at all. It is just an eyesore to me.


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## njumi

JakubikF said:


> What is that!? It doesn't look like correct Polish at all. It is just an eyesore to me.


OK. So maybe you can tell me what is so incorrect in those frases apart from the English word _noun _placed in the brackets. To make it easier you can replace (noun) for _plecak_. I'm really curious.


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## JakubikF

OK. Now I see my mistake. I haven't realized what you meant. The "(noun)" part is the crucial issue  Forgive me, please. I thought you insinuate that the sentence e.g. "Mam będący w sprzedaży w Stanach" is correct.


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## Thomas1

kamper said:


> Thank u so much, mcibor!!
> 
> So you mean
> "Mam zainstalowany system" = "I have the system installed"
> and
> "Mam instalowany system" = "I'm having the system installed" or "I have the system being installed",
> and by saying this I _myself_ can also be meant to be the subject of this action, right?


I think, but that's just my guess, that I've had the system installed. might work better as translation of Mam zainstalowany sytem.



> Moreover, to my surprise, according to the results on google, "Mam kupowany.." is never followed directly by an _object_, e.g. on the page wizaz.pl/produkty/baza/produkt.php?produkt=6205, where one guy says "*Ja mam kupowany* w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17 (na Europę jest niższy fltr?)".
> 
> Is this grammatically correct in formal Polish? Or should that be "Ja mam *go* kupowany w Stanach"?


Perhaps grammatically correct, however it does sound poor.



kamper said:


> [...]
> 
> e.g."Mam kupioną tę książkę", "Tengo comprado este libro", do they indicate "Someone else has bought this book", or "*Either I have, or someone else has bought this book*"? I just want to confirm this from you, thanks!


 


> In addition, is the declension of the participle after "mieć" always subject to the inflection of the _object_? e.g. "Mam *kupioną* tę *książkę*" -> "Nie mam *kupionej* tej *książki*", right? And does the participle in the structure "mieć + participle" always have to be derived from a *perfective verb*? i.e. What about "Mam instalowany(-ego, -ą)" and "Mam kupowany(-ego, -ą)", does anything alike exist in Polish?


I think it is.
Mam zainstalowanego Windowsa i muszę go zmienić na inny system.
is something I've certainly heard many times, so yes it does exist.



> I searched google for such strings but it gave very few hits; and it seems no objects would be attached to the participle "instalowany" or "kupowany", at least in those results; so do they become *intransitive* verbs in such cases?


On the other hand most of the examples I've come up with sound strange, anyway the following I believe will sound OK:_
Mam rower sprowadzony z Japonii, nic mi się nie psuje.
Ja mam wyprodukowany Niemczech i też nic mi się jeszcze nie zepsuło._

It seems to me that there's an implied clause:
Ja mam rower(, który został) wyprodukowany w Niemczech.
The fact that context provieds for an implied word acounts for the lack of the object and using it sounds somewhat redundant.

Making the following ammendments into njumi's examples they sound OK to me:





njumi said:


> For me *ja mam kupowany* sounds strange.
> 
> Ja mam kupowany w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17.
> 
> I would say:
> 
> (noun) Kupiłem w Stanach.
> Ja mam (noun) kupiony w Stanach.
> Ja mam (noun) będący w sprzedaży w Stanach.
> Ja mam (noun) pochodzący ze Stanów.





mcibor said:


> Can you give any examples?
> 
> I know that we had czas zaprzeszły:
> Ja spotkałem był
> [...]


Powinienem był to zrobić od razu. is something I use and hear once in a while.

Tom


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## robmoney

Hello everyone! First post here -- just thought I'd share my thoughts on this puzzling issue of _mieć_ + passive participle.

First of all, from my perspective this seems like a form that is so rarely used that even native speakers of Polish might dispute its finer points. So, to the originator of the thread, it might be advisable to use something a little more frequent in Polish speech. But since it is a legitimate translation issue, what better place than here to address it?

In the case of _mieć_ + perfective passive participle, e.g. "_Mam zainstalowany system_", the PWN Słownik Języka Polskiego suggests only one possible meaning of the modal verb in this sense (see _mieć_ II, 3... unfortunately my status here won't let me post the link, but it's at pwn.pl).

_z imiesłowem biernym w funkcji czasu przeszłego: wykonać, spełnić, ukończyć coś, np._ Mam napisaną pracę​
So, _mieć_ + perf. pass. part. would seem to serve the function of a *stylistically* "past perfect" construction. However, I do not think this qualifies as a tense in Polish nor that it functions comparably in meaning or frequency to the English equivalent. Referring to the PWN definition, _wykonać_, _spełnić_, and _ukończyć_ would appear to me to imply greater effort or a longer duration of task, for example, studying for an exam or passing legislation. But it's up to the native speakers to make the ruling: what is the intuitive difference for you between

_Mam zainstalowany system_, and​
_Zainstowałem system_ ?​
Admittedly I'm no native speaker of Polish, but it doesn't seem plausible that the English phrase "to have something done" could be translated with _mieć_. (Could a closer word-for-word translation of this be _(s)powodować_? Still sounds a bit unnatural.) There are many occasions in English where the verb "to have" occurs before an action to give a nuance of receipt, command, or to attenuate agency. In Polish, this is most often implicit. For example:

_obciąć włosy_ : to have one's hair cut OR to cut (one's) hair​_naprawiać samochód_ : to have one's car serviced OR to service (one's) car​
Consequently, in Polish, the periphrastic formation of the past tense in question could be interpreted either way.

_Mam obcięte włosy_ : I cut my hair, or I had my hair cut​
I imagine this is why Tom (rightfully) translated it with the English sense of the act being done by someone else, *though the grammatical change was transparent*:



Thomas1 said:


> W tamtym mieszkaniu miałem zainstalowany lepszy system centralnego ogrzewania.
> would tranlate:
> In that flat I (had) had a better central heating system installed.



The point being: morphologically, this sentence could have been translated just as easily

I had installed a better central heating system [myself].​
...except that the average person doesn't walk around installing their own central heat. 

In any case, there's my two grosze. Hope this helps!

Best regards,

Rob


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## Thomas1

Hello Rob, and welcome to the WR forums, 

Thanks for your interesting input, here are some comments of mine I've made into your post:





robmoney said:


> Hello everyone! First post here -- just thought I'd share my thoughts on this puzzling issue of _mieć_ + passive participle.
> 
> First of all, from my perspective this seems like a form that is so rarely used that even native speakers of Polish might dispute its finer points. So, to the originator of the thread, it might be advisable to use something a little more frequent in Polish speech. But since it is a legitimate translation issue, what better place than here to address it?
> The construction isn't indeed very frequent, though it isn't on the verge of extinction either.  I think it naturally rolls off the tongue in a sentence like _Mam zainstalowany XXX. _This isn't of course the only context for it. The problem, however, is that it doesn't sound natural with all verbs.
> 
> In the case of _mieć_ + perfective passive participle, e.g. "_Mam zainstalowany system_", the PWN Słownik Języka Polskiego suggests only one possible meaning of the modal verb in this sense (see _mieć_ II, 3... unfortunately my status here won't let me post the link, but it's at pwn.pl)._z imiesłowem biernym w funkcji czasu przeszłego: wykonać, spełnić, ukończyć coś, np._ Mam napisaną pracę​So, _mieć_ + perf. pass. part. would seem to serve the function of a *stylistically* "past perfect" construction. However, I do not think this qualifies as a tense in Polish nor that it functions comparably in meaning or frequency to the English equivalent. Referring to the PWN definition, _wykonać_, _spełnić_, and _ukończyć_ would appear to me to imply greater effort or a longer duration of task, for example, studying for an exam or passing legislation. But it's up to the native speakers to make the ruling: what is the intuitive difference for you between_Mam zainstalowany system_, and​_Zainstowałem system_ ?​To me the difference I discern is that the second sentence does indicate the person who's installed the system, and the second doesn't. I think that in most cases when a person urges 1 it does imply that they haven't done the job themselves, although this isn't always the case (look further down)
> Admittedly I'm no native speaker of Polish, but it doesn't seem plausible that the English phrase "to have something done" could be translated with _mieć_. (Could a closer word-for-word translation of this be _(s)powodować_? Still sounds a bit unnatural.) There are many occasions in English where the verb "to have" occurs before an action to give a nuance of receipt, command, or to attenuate agency. In Polish, this is most often implicit.
> Spurred by your research in PWN sjp I have looked mieć up in the grand PWN Oxford Polish English dictionary and here's a part of its entry:
> *3. (rezultat) mieć coś zrobione to have sth done;*
> Surprisingly, all the examples given in the entry don't follow this construction.
> I would say that it is one of the possibilities that make up the whole portmanteau of feasible translations of this construction into English.
> For example:_obciąć włosy_ : to have one's hair cut OR to cut (one's) hair​_naprawiać samochód_ : to have one's car serviced OR to service (one's) car​Consequently, in Polish, the periphrastic formation of the past tense in question could be interpreted either way._Mam obcięte włosy_ : I cut my hair, or I had my hair cut​I imagine this is why Tom (rightfully) translated it with the English sense of the act being done by someone else, *though the grammatical change was transparent*:
> The PWN entry in my dictionary, gives yet another interesting example:
> mam już napisaną pracę I've already written the essay;
> If someone utters a sentence of this sort I am more than 99.98% sure that they have written it by themselves. Weighing all the possibilities I've come to the conclusion that it's best to examine each sentence with mieć plus perfect past participle on a case-by-case basis since there is no hard and fast rule that would work for each case.
> 
> 
> The point being: morphologically, this sentence could have been translated just as easilyI had installed a better central heating system [myself].​...except that the average person doesn't walk around installing their own central heat.
> 
> In any case, there's my two grosze. Hope this helps!
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Rob


Tom


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## mcibor

I just found a "sentence" that has similar construction:

- To napiszesz mi ten raport?
- *Robi się*.

Rough translation would be:
"So will you write/give me that report?"
"It is doing itself"

The latter sentence doesn't really say I'm doing it, but the context shows that it's the speaker, or his team, that's creating that report.

For this matter the past tense would be:

- Mam zrobiony,
 or even better 
- Mam go już napisanego


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## kamper

Thanks you for the clarification, Tomas!



Thomas1 said:


> I think, but that's just my guess, that I've had the system installed. might work better as translation of Mam zainstalowany sytem.
> 
> ************
> 
> Perhaps grammatically correct, however it does sound poor.
> 
> ************
> I think it is.
> Mam zainstalowanego Windowsa i muszę go zmienić na inny system.
> is something I've certainly heard many times, so yes it does exist.
> 
> On the other hand most of the examples I've come up with sound strange, anyway the following I believe will sound OK:
> _Mam rower sprowadzony z Japonii, nic mi się nie psuje._
> _Ja mam wyprodukowany Niemczech i też nic mi się jeszcze nie zepsuło._
> 
> It seems to me that there's an implied clause:
> Ja mam rower(, który został) wyprodukowany w Niemczech.
> The fact that context provieds for an implied word acounts for the lack of the object and using it sounds somewhat redundant.


So my intuition is that "Mam *go* kupowany" and "Mam *go* wyprodukowany" might be _grammatically_ correct, but _conventionally_, you'd consider it redundant in the aforementioned contexts and thus it's not practical for you to add these pronouns on in daily Polish, agree?


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## BezierCurve

> So my intuition is that "Mam *go* kupowany" and "Mam *go* wyprodukowany" might be _grammatically_ correct


 
In fact the construction with "Mam go" needs a following past participle (imiesłów bierny) in accusative (mam - kogo? co?) *and* in its perfective aspect: "... kupion*ego*" and "... wyprodukowan*ego*". But, as you've noticed, this form is not really used.


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## Thomas1

I generally agree, though there are some (rare) situations when you do hear it:
_Mam go zainstalowanego na dysku głównym._

You may take such examples as exceptional, though.


Tom


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## Denis555

Just to add an odd curiosity in Silesia, Poland some people might say something like: *Mam to zrobione = Zrobiłem* *to*   due to interference of German past tense.
According to the Book: E. Łuczyński, J. Maćkiewicz. Językoznawstwo Ogólne - wybrane zagadnienia, Gdańsk, 2007. p.118


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## arturolczykowski

*Ja mam kupowany* w Stanach, z filtrem SPF17 (na Europę jest niższy fltr?).
is perfectly OK. However it needs a previous sentence where you will say what it is you have.

E.g.
- Ja swój krem kupiłam w Anglii, a ty? 
- Ja mam kupowany w Stanach. (The object is still krem, but you don't have to repeat it)

.........................


Nie wydaje mi sie, zeby ta forma byla poprawna. Uzylbym raczej:

Ja swoj kupilem w Stanach
Moj jest kupiony w Stanach
ewentualnie
Ja mam kupiony w Stanach


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## kknd

robmoney wrote
_
Mam obcięte włosy_ : I cut my hair, or I had my hair cut


When translating those English phrases I'd distinguish among them by
I cut my hair : _Obciąłem sobie włosy_ (grammatically implying speaker as performer, but can mean that it was done by someone else)
I had my hair cut : _Obcięto mi włosy / Mam obcięte włosy_ (puting straightforward that someone else has done it)

So both sentences have corresponding meaning referring to performer of action in Polish and English.


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