# 全然



## Pavel Bond

女：試験勉強してる？
男：全然。おれ、まず、教科書、探さないと。
全然 here means:
Yes, completely.
or 
No, not at all?

And dialogue 2:
女：試験勉強してる？
男：全然。
全然 here means:
Yes, completely.
or 
No, not at all?


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## SoLaTiDoberman

The both contexts mean "No, not at all" with no doubt.

In the standard/traditional Japanese grammar, 全然 should be used in a negative sentence, 全然～～ない.

Recently, however, for about 20-30 years, 全然 has begun to be used in a positive sentence, "Yes. Completely!" as you mentioned. Of course, this usage is only used in colloquial conversations, especially by younger people.

The dialog 1 is definitely negative, according to the context.
The dialog 2 has no more context. Yet, it must be negative because of the standard Japanese grammar.

If younger generation Japanese or other Japanese said against my post in this thread, I would be surprised a lot.


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## Pavel Bond

Thank you! Very interesting))


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## Flaminius

No.  I promise I will come back to this topic but let me make it clear that 全然 is a negative polarity item (always used in negation) is not justified by historical evidence.


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## frequency

Casually we say 全然大丈夫. This has probably come from the confusion with 全然問題ない. I think you might have heard 全然大丈夫 somewhere.
You know 問題ない and 大丈夫 are very similar with each other. But 全然大丈夫 isn't right, grammatically.


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## Pavel Bond

O-o, what a tricky thing, that 全然)).


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## frequency

Well, 全然 should be used with negation, ない. And 全然大丈夫 is irregular, slangy.


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## Pavel Bond




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## Schokolade

Flaminius said:


> No. I promise I will come back to this topic but let me make it clear that 全然 is a negative polarity item (always used in negation) is not justified by historical evidence.



そうですね・・「ちっとも」「決して」などは NPI ですが、「全然」はもともとは NPI ではなかったですね。　歴史的に見るともともとは肯定表現で、「まったく」「まるっきり」「すべて」「すっかり」の意味でも使われましたね。

「三人が全然翻訳権を与次郎に委任することにした」（夏目漱石）
「一体生徒が全然悪いです」（夏目漱石）
「母は全然同意して」（政宗白鳥）

「全然平気」「全然大丈夫」「こっちのほうが全然大きい」などの俗語的表現以外にも、「全然*違う*」「全然*だめ*」などと言えますし、「全然 should always be used with* negative ない*」とは言い切れない、ということでしょうか・・・　（どの部分に対して・何を否定して "No" と仰ったのかがちょっと読み取れませんでした、すみません。。。 "*traditiona*l Japanese grammar" のところでしょうか。）

もちろん、「勉強してる？」「全然。」と言うと、「全然してない。」という意味ですが。。。


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## frequency

全然(ぜんぜん)とは - 全然の読み方・Wiktionary日本語版（日本語カテゴリ） Weblio辞書
二　すべてにわたってそうであるさま。 「実に－たる改革を宣告せり／求安録 鑑三」 〔明治・大正期には、もともと ② の「すべて」「すっかり」の意で肯定表現にも用いられていたが、次第に下に打ち消しを伴う　一 ① の用法が強く意識されるようになった。近年、一 ③ の意で肯定表現を伴って「全然おいしい」などと程度の強調を表す用法が見られるが、これは俗用である〕

全然だめ： ① （打ち消し、または「だめ」のような否定的な語を下に伴って）


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## Flaminius

I am back.

NPI, or negative polarity item, is 否定極性項目 in Japanese; if anyone wants to do further research.

Now, 大辞林's definition of 全然 (quoted in *frequency* #10) is a bit tricky.  It separates the emphatic use (3; 非常に。とても。) from the total positive (2; すべて。すっかり。 etc.; completely).  Japanese often uses expressions in absolute terms for expressing a great degree of something.  Note that a degree, however large it may be, is already an expression in relative terms.  Take いちばん初めに for an example.  Here, 初めに has turned into something like "early" by virtue of the relativistic いちばん.  An earlier use of 全然 can be understood either "trust completely" or "trust highly":


> 自分達の気持を一番よくわかつて呉れる仲間として全然信頼してゐる。
> Source: 三好十郎 (1940)「浮標」


It is evident that 大辞林's (2) can naturally develop into (3).  Separating the two may be a healthy casuistry for a dictionary but it's unfair to call the latter 俗用, slangy.  One insensibly shifts into another; can a lexicographer determine the slaginess of a particular use based on their categorisations (2, 3)? 



Schokolade said:


> 「全然平気」「全然大丈夫」「こっちのほうが全然大きい」などの俗語的表現以外


Calling these 俗語的 is a judgment in accordance with Yasuo Kitahara of _Mēkyō Dictionary_.  He, or the dictionary, defines 俗語 as 改まった場では使いにくい卑俗なことば、新しいことば.  I hesitate to call them 卑俗 because they don't call genitals by four-letter words; I hesitate to call them 改まった場では使いにくい or 新しいことば because I know they have been around since late 19th century and respectable writers are among the sample.  Using an absolute term in a relative sense is a typical figure of speech (known as _absolutum pro relativo_ elsewhere) for emphasis.  Overdoing emphasis comes across flashy or loud, but it's not something limited to the language of the street.  If you are very conservative, you can call them colloquial or casual; but never slangy.

And I found a dictionary that does not separate 大辞林's senses (2, 3).  Hiroaki Īma, a lexicographer working for _Sansēdō Japanese Dictionary7_, is quite passionate about this and quoted the dictionary entry for 全然.

Some posters here may be aware of the Wikipedia entry for 全然.  It is well-researched but reaks considerably of conservative prescriptivism.  Among other things, citing the sixth edition for _Sansēdō_, instead of the latest seventh, makes me doubt if there is not some polemics in the article.


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## Pavel Bond

Very interesting discussion, thanks to all！


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