# I saw it through without exemption



## alpa62

Buongiorno a tutti 
Eccomi con una richiesta d'aiuto. Sono italiana e devo tradurre nella mia lingua la canzone di Frank Sinatra "My Way". La prima difficoltà che ho incontrato è nella frase "I did what I had to do, I saw it through without exemption".  I miei tentativo di traduzione sono: " Ho fatto quello che dovevo fare, l'ho portato a termine senza omissioni" Oppure "Ho fatto quello che dovevo fare , l'ho esaminato a fondo, senza trascurare nulla"..Però non so quale sia in realtà l'intenzione espressiva dell'autore: i significati che ho trovato qui nel dizionario per "to see through" non mi aiutano molto o forse sono fuori strada...Grazie


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## mikante

Ho visto tutto, senza eccezzioni.
Anche se non mi piace per nulla!


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## Mariah8282

Ho trovato sul web una traduzione del testo...
http://angolotesti.leonardo.it/trad...anzone_tradotto_my_way_frank_sinatra_800.html

confrontala con la tua, potrebbe darti qualche idea...


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## alpa62

mikante said:


> Ho visto tutto, senza eccezzioni.
> Anche se non mi piace per nulla!


Grazie, mikante. Allora quell "*it*" verrebbe tradotto con "tutto"? Non è riferito a "*what* I had to do"?


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## alpa62

Mariah8282 said:


> Ho trovato sul web una traduzione del testo...
> http://angolotesti.leonardo.it/trad...anzone_tradotto_my_way_frank_sinatra_800.html
> 
> confrontala con la tua, potrebbe darti qualche idea...


Grazie Maria, avevo già visto, però non ne ero convinta..a volte le traduziuoni in internet sono parecchio imprecise.


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## mikante

A me fa pensare più a:
"ho fatto quello che dovevo, ne ho viste di cose, senza eccezzioni"
Però non veorrei cadere nell'interpretazione...


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## pescara

Mariah8282 said:


> Ho trovato sul web una traduzione del testo...
> http://angolotesti.leonardo.it/trad...anzone_tradotto_my_way_frank_sinatra_800.html
> 
> confrontala con la tua, potrebbe darti qualche idea...


 
I don't agree with this translation.  It translates "I saw it through" as "ho visto tutto."  The expression "to see something through" means "to bring something to completion, to make sure it gets done.  I'm not sure if there is an equivalent expression in Italian, but this is the sense, not "ho visto tutto."

Ciao.


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## tastieranera

Non sono madrelingua, ma a me il senso sembra questo:
"Ho fatto quel che dovevo fare e l'ho fatto fino in fondo, senza tirarmi indietro"
Che ne dite?


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## mikante

Hi Pescara, thanks for your explanation, but I don't understand, to make sure it get done by who? we can get to it, I just need an example, please.


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## pescara

mikante said:


> Hi Pescara, thanks for your explanation, but I don't understand, to make sure it get done by who? we can get to it, I just need an example, please.


 
I'll try to explain it another way: Whatever task I confronted, I didn't give up until it was completed.  For example, if my business was having problems, I didn't quit, I didn't close the business, I worked even harder until the business was once again doing well, until the problem was resolved.  

Ciao.


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## effeundici

Perhaps "Ho fatto tutto fino in fondo"


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## alpa62

tastieranera said:


> Non sono madrelingua, ma a me il senso sembra questo:
> "Ho fatto quel che dovevo fare e l'ho fatto fino in fondo, senza tirarmi indietro"
> Che ne dite?


allora, tastieranera, la mia traduzione non era lontana dal senso che tu dai alla frase "l'ho portato a termine senza omissioni o senza tirarmi indietro (sicuramente miglior traduzione per "without exemption"!)


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## mikante

pescara said:


> I'll try to explain it another way: Whatever task I confronted, I didn't give up until it was completed. For example, if my business was having problems, I didn't quit, I didn't close the business, I worked even harder until the business was once again doing well, until the problem was resolved.
> 
> Ciao.


 
I dig it now!
Thank you.
Then I guess F11 got it right...


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## alpa62

effeundici said:


> Perhaps "Ho fatto tutto fino in fondo"


mi conforta anche la tua traduzione f11, non ero lontana 
dalla verità!  Grazie


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## alpa62

mikante said:


> I dig it now!
> Thank you.
> Then I guess F11 got it right...


Ringrazio te e tutti coloro che hanno partecipato al confronto. Siete impagabili!


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## tastieranera

alpa62 said:


> allora, tastieranera, la mia traduzione non era lontana dal senso che tu dai alla frase "l'ho portato a termine senza omissioni o senza tirarmi indietro (sicuramente miglior traduzione per "without exemption"!)


 
Sì, a me pare che il senso sia questo, avevo pensato anche a "senza sconti" per quell'"exemption". Se poi anche Pescara, che è madrelingua, ha confermato, direi proprio che è azzeccata!


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## ancilianumae

I like tastieranera's version very much, and actually it's not that far off from the first of alpa62's original offerings ("l'ho portato a termine senza omissioni").  But I hesitate over "senza tirarmi indietro."  Does it carry a nuance beyond "without backing away, without yielding"?

See, "without exemption" is a sticking point for me in English.  It always bothered me in the original.  Like the phrase "of which I'm certain" in the first verse of the song, it always seemed just a touch too formal, too stylistically elevated for a tough guy to sing.  It's not something I'd use in everyday speech.  Plus, I always had the impression that the songwriter originally meant to use the more down-to-earth "without _exception" _but then decided to use something more fancy.

Nevertheless, as it stands, the use of "without exemption" embraces but goes beyond "without exception."  It suggests to me that the protagonist-singer not only did everything he had to do; he did it completely, thoroughly, sparing absolutely nothing and granting mercy to absolutely no one--perhaps not even to himself.

My Italian is highly flawed, but would a more literal translation, like "senza esenzione" work in any way for you native Italian speakers?


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## mikante

"esenzioni" that's good when you're talking about taxes 
It won't fit in a nice song like that, I think "eccezzioni" is much better.


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## rrose17

I agree with ancilianumae. Paul Anka will never go down in history as one the great lyricists... the word exemption doesn't really work, it should be without exception. Maybe he thought it sounded better when sung...


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## effeundici

mikante said:


> "esenzioni" that's good when you're talking about taxes
> It won't fit in a nice song like that, I think "eccezzioni" "eccezioni" is much better.


 
is much better! ))))


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## mikante

effeundici said:


> is much better! ))))


 
Sorry for that! quella è un eccezione di cui mi dimentico spesso


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## ancilianumae

May I ask a stylistic question of those among you who translate frequently? 

When there's something in a text--as in this case, "without exemption"--that sounds a little weird or eccentric _in the original language,_ should the translator attempt to preserve that eccentricity in the target language?  Or should he or she try to erase or improve upon the stylistic inconsistency?


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## mikante

as I musician, I would try to preserve the sense, the eccentricity, to the detriment of what it might be the best translation. 
But I work with fashion, I have to translate bunch of discussions, negotiations, technical informations about garments, whashings treatments, stuff like that, that's when I really have to get to the point and forget about the rest. 
In both situations, something get always lost in translation, you just have to chose which one is the best for your purpose.


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## tastieranera

ancilianumae said:


> Nevertheless, as it stands, the use of "without exemption" embraces but goes beyond "without exception." It suggests to me that the protagonist-singer not only did everything he had to do; he did it completely, thoroughly, sparing absolutely nothing and granting mercy to absolutely no one--perhaps not even to himself.


Thank you ancilanumae for making it clearer. I had missed that meaning.


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## ancilianumae

Thanks, mikante, for your thoughts on translation. (And sorry about the delay in responding.) When faced with a text like the one in "My Way" that (as rrose17 also points out) is a little lumpy in the original, I can well imagine myself torn between trying to match its quirkiness or coming up with something smoother in the Italian, if I were the translator.

But you and others lead me to a related grammar question: Regardless of whether one chooses _"eccezione,"_ _"esenzione" _or even _"redenzione"__(!)_ for the final translation, in italiano, dopo _"senza" _non si puo' usare la forma singolare? Deve essere _"senza *eccezioni" *_o _"senza *esenzioni," *_piuttosto che _"senza eccezione"_ ecc.?


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## mikante

ancilianumae said:


> Thanks, mikante, for your thoughts on translation. (And sorry about the delay in responding.) When faced with a text like the one in "My Way" that (as rrose17 also points out) is a little lumpy in the original, I can well imagine myself torn between trying to match its quirkiness or coming up with something smoother in the Italian, if I were the translator.
> 
> But you and others lead me to a related grammar question: Regardless of whether one chooses _"eccezione,"_ _"esenzione" _or even _"redenzione"__(!)_ for the final translation, in italiano, dopo _"senza" _non si puo' usare la forma singolare? Deve essere _"senza *eccezioni" *_o _"senza *esenzioni," *_piuttosto che _"senza eccezione"_ ecc.?


 
We chose, allow me to borrow your own words, for something smoother when we came to "ho fatto tutto fino in fondo/ I saw it through". After you have said "tutto" which includes all or let's say, a lot of things, you better go for "eccezioni". 
The second choice, could be "senza nessuna eccezzione" and it fits pretty well in my opinion.
The last choice, would be "senza un'eccezione" and I don't think we have to tear pages out of our grammar book when I say that, I just don't like it. 
You can chose either "plurale" or "singolare" but the form might be different.


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## ancilianumae

Thanks, mikante. Am I then correct in concluding that the construction _"senza eccezione"_ is invalid in Italian, not just in this case but generally?


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## mikante

ancilianumae said:


> Thanks, mikante. Am I then correct in concluding that the construction _"senza eccezione"_ is invalid in Italian, not just in this case but generally?


 
No, you're are wrong, it is not invalid, just less used. 
"La regola è questa, senza eccezione" 
"this is the rule, without exception"
"la regola è questa, senza eccezioni"
"this is the rule, without exceptions"

"aveva freddo senza giacca"
"he was cold, without the jacket" 
in this case "giacche" wouldn't make any sense, why should he wear more than one!

You have to keep an eye on the meaning and the other on the grammar.


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## ancilianumae

Grazie, mikante.


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## mikante

ancilianumae said:


> grazie, mikante.


:d


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