# Etymology of the Arabic root "K R S"



## viktorb

Hello,
I wonder what is the "agreed upon" etymology of Arabic homonymic root K R S (reference is needed). It is very probable that the first meaning of the root is derived from Aram./ Syr. loanword كُرْسِي (kursIy) „chair, throne“ (other derivatives are كُرَّاسَة، كَرَّسَ، تَكَرَّسَ according to Hans Wehr’s dictionary); this lexeme already appeared in the Holy Quran and it seems that its Aram./Syr. origin is agreed upon, since it is quoted in plenty of works. But what about the second meaning of K R S, where we find the II Form verb كَرَّسَ  (karrasa) meaning “dedicate, consecrate…” and its derivatives? The Arabic monolingual dictionary المنجد في العربية المعاصرة for example mentions its Greek origin, but what is then the original Greek lexeme? This borrowing seems to be relatively recent (in MSA), since neither Lane’s nor Kazimirski’s dictionary for Classical Arabic quotes this meaning.

Thank you for any help


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## ancalimon

Could it be related with Turkic "kutsa" meaning "to consecrate" "to bless" "to revere"?


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## WadiH

The root ك-ر-س is Classical, see here:
http://www.baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D9%83%D8%B1%D8%B3

It has to do with things being stacked on top of each other and hardening (e.g. the hardening of the brick and mortar after a house is constructed, or the hardening of a pile of dung).  كرّاس ("notebook") is essentially a stack of paper.

It don't know if it is related to كرسي ("chair" or "throne") (the authors of the _Lisaan_ are silent about any connection).  It may well be a borrowing rather than a derivative of the root ك-ر-س.


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## Scholiast

Greetings

I know scarcely any Arabic, unfortunately. But if your Arabic monolingual dictionary is right about this being a loan-word with Greek origins, then one might look at the cluster of words originating from the stem κυρ- (_kyr_-) with the sense of "power", "authority" (and in several languages it makes sense to speak metaphorically of "the seat of power" or "the throne of heavenly Grace", _vel sim_. - though to me it seems unlikely that Aramaic or Syriac would have needed to borrow such concepts from Greek.

There must be others here more expert than I.

Good luck.

Note to Moderator: this was cross-posted with #3, who obviously knows more about Arabic than I do. Please delete if you think my remarks add nothing helpful.


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## Abu Rashid

The root Wadi Hanifa mentioned sounds like a good concept from which to derive something you sit on.

In Hebrew, Ugaritic & Akkadian the word has a doubled s instead of the r.


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## berndf

Abu Rashid said:


> The root Wadi Hanifa mentioned sounds like a good concept from which to derive something you sit on.
> 
> In Hebrew, Ugaritic & Akkadian the word has a doubled s instead of the r.


Which verb do you mean? which of the three "s"? The Hebrew word for _throne _is Kaf-Samekh (K-S3).


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## artion

viktorb said:


> ...verb كَرَّسَ  (karrasa) meaning “dedicate, consecrate…” and its derivatives? The Arabic monolingual dictionary المنجد في العربية المعاصرة for example mentions its Greek origin, but what is then the original Greek lexeme? This borrowing seems to be relatively recent (in MSA), since neither Lane’s nor Kazimirski’s dictionary for Classical Arabic quotes this meaning.



It's only a guess of mine that might be related to the Gr. κηρύσσω (to herald, to preach, http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper/text?doc=Perseus%3Atext%3A1999.04.0057%3Aalphabetic+letter%3D*k%3Aentry+group%3D114%3Aentry%3Dkhru%2Fssw)
Although the meaning may look a bit distant from the one in arabic, it is useful to know that the κηρυξ in ancient Gr. was a very important official, protected by Zeus, holding a sceptre like the kings,  perceived as holy and taboo persons. In Homer are called "divine" (Il. 4, 192), "friends of Zeus" (Il. 8, 517). They had several duties in sacrifications and religious rituals (Homer again, Il. 3, 116 and 245 and 268, Il. 19, 196 etc).


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## Abu Rashid

berndf said:


> Which verb do you mean? which of the three "s"? The Hebrew word for _throne _is Kaf-Samekh (K-S3).



Yes samek (s3). Only Arabic & Aramaic have the r.

Gesenius suggested the 'r' was inserted in Arabic & Aramaic, but I think it's more likely the 'r' would be weakened and merged into the 's' no?

I think the idea of a Greek loan is looking very remote.


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## berndf

I am not sure. In Hebrew there is root _Kapf-Samekh-Samekh_ but it has something to do with _chewing_. It seem to be totally unrelated to _throne = Kaph-Samekh_.


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## origumi

berndf said:


> I am not sure. In Hebrew there is root _Kapf-Samekh-Samekh_ but it has something to do with _chewing_. It seem to be totally unrelated to _throne = Kaph-Samekh_.


Hebrew for chair is _kisse _כִּסֵּא so the root may be kss. There's also _kursa _(armchair), apparently from Aramaic.


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## berndf

Is it plausible to assume that _Kisse _is derived from K-S-S? And if so, there a regularly occurring phenomenon behind it?


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## origumi

berndf said:


> Is it plausible to assume that _Kisse _is derived from K-S-S? And if so, there a regularly occurring phenomenon behind it?


Hebrew _kisse_ (or the form _kess_) may be a borrowed word, although in very early times (appears in the oldest parts of the Bible, e.g. Deuteronomy 17:18). I think that it's isolated - no other related words. Therefore discussing its Hebrew root may be useless.

A plausible origin is Akkadian _kussu_ / _kussiu_ = chair, from Sumerian _kuza_ (also spelled _guza_) http://books.google.com/books?id=-q...m=1&ved=0CBkQ6AEwAA#v=snippet&q=chair&f=false (p. 170). This explanation appears for example in the Hebrew book _The Origin of Words_ http://books.google.com/books?id=AK...resnum=10&ved=0CHcQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q&f=false (p.190) which claims that Akkadian _kursu_ is of the same Sumerian origin and that these are the ancestors of similar words in other Semitic languages.


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## Finland

Hello!



ancalimon said:


> Could it be related with Turkic "kutsa" meaning "to consecrate" "to bless" "to revere"?



This comes from the Arabic root q-d-s, such as takdis, Kudüs, kudsiyet, kutsal...

HTH
S


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## ancalimon

Finland said:


> Hello!
> 
> 
> 
> This comes from the Arabic root q-d-s, such as takdis, Kudüs, kudsiyet, kutsal...
> 
> HTH
> S



I see. Thanks for telling me. I guess we don't have any known connections between Turkic root kut (anything good, happy, luck, fortune, the power given to a person by God in order for him to be a leader) and Arabic qds.


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## Vostarkis

origumi said:


> A plausible origin is Akkadian _kussu_ / _kussiu_ = chair, from Sumerian _kuza_ (also spelled _guza_) A Concise Dictionary of Akkadian (p. 170). This explanation appears for example in the Hebrew book _The Origin of Words_ מוצא המילים (p.190) which claims that Akkadian _kursu_ is of the same Sumerian origin and that these are the ancestors of similar words in other Semitic languages.


Is the Sumerian word guza commonly considered the source of these Semitic words nowadays? I'm curious if there is any more consensus that's been built up over the last few years that favors this etymology. It seems very likely imo.


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## fdb

Yes, it is mainstream opinion that all the Semitic words for "throne, chair" come ultimately from Akkadian kussû, which in turn is from Sumerian guza. The dissimilation of ss to rs happened in Aramaic.


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## JamshidR

In fact there is no need to discuss any word which is related to administration as the Arabs before Islam had no system of their own. After Islam and its expansion particularly during the period of the second Caliph Umar bin Khattaab the Arabs felt the need. so they borrowed from the three great civilizations around them i.e. from the Greek قلم - دفتر قاموس and from Aramaic كتب - قرأ from Persianديوان from Latin جمرك through Persian گمرک some of these borrowing are even older than Islam as with qalam

According to Sigmund Fränkel the Arabic word كراسة  is not a typical Arabic coinage and therefore cannot be from كرس and the feminine marker in the word is an indication  is of the borrowing from Aramaic


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