# Converting names from English to Greek



## Tao

EDIT: my apologies. Perhaps I should've made a new thread instead of posting this message here.


Thank you very much for the suggestions 


Just for the heck of it, I'm at the moment quickly practising converting names to Greek spelling to see if I get it (I'm very much a self-learner for the most part). Please check if my conversions are in order:

Sergio = Σέρδιιω (guessing the δι makes an English 'g' sound)

Brendan = Μπρένδαν (or Βρένδαν ancient)

Aleksandar = Αλεκσάνδαρ or Αλεξάνδαρ

Fraukje = Φραυκγε (??? It is proonounced [frau kje] where the first piece is German-like, and 'je' sounds roughly like [yeah]

Peter ([pay ter]) = Πεϊτερ

John = Διον

Ruud (German ü and a [t]) = Ρυτ

Rudy = Ρύδη

Marie-Michelle = Μαρη-Μιχέλλε (actually the 'ch' = [sh] = σι ?)

Christina = Κριστίνα or Χριστίνα

Ellen = Έλλεν

Jeroen [yeh roon] (short [oo]) = Υερούν

Cynthia = Σίνθια

Kaey [kaai] (long sounding) = Καϊ



*********


This I find only a bit vague -- the part about digraphs (αι, ει, etcetera). Three combinations that have an [ee] sound while ι and η are also [ee]? That's FIVE times I count!


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## Kevman

Well, let me take a crack at it--in modern spelling, anyway.  Technically, in transcribing names and other foreign words into modern Greek iota (ι) is preferred for "[ee]" sounds (rather than η or υ or a digraph) and omicron (ο) is preferred for [o] sounds (rather than ω). Also, double letters tend to get reduced to just one. Some of these names actually have Greek equivalents (like Αλέξανδρος or Πέτρος), but I guess that would defeat the purpose of your exercise, wouldn't it.

*Sergio = Σέρτζιο*
Modern δ is a dental sound, with the tongue at the tips of the teeth. It is found in the English words _the_ and _this_ (not the harder, voiceless sound in _thing_). The 'gi' sound (or English 'j') doesn't exist in Greek, and is traditionally represented with τζ.
*Brendan = Μπρένταν*
The alveolar 'd' sound is spelled ντ in modern Greek. 'nd' is also spelled ντ. In Greek words, whether or not to pronounce the 'n' depends on many things, including: where the sound falls in the word, the particular dialect of the speaker, whether the word is of foreign origin and the speaker knows whether or not the 'n' is pronounced in the foreign word.
*Aleksandar = Αλεξάνταρ* (or maybe Αλεξάντερ if the vowel in that unstressed final syllable tends to disappear)
*Fraukje = Φράουκγε*
'αυ' makes a special sort of diphthong in modern Greek. Before a 'k' sound it is pronounced 'af'!
*Peter = Πέιτερ *
The accent placement is key here for making the diphthong. Since the syllable is stressed the accent goes on the first letter rather than placing a diaeresis on the second. If the accent were on the second letter (εί) it would just make an "[ee]" sound.
*John = Τζον*
*Ruud = Ριτ*
I generally see German ü transcribed as ι. Remember, υ is not an [oo] sound, but rather yet another [ee]!
*Marie-Michelle = Μαρί-Μισέλ* (should the final e in Michelle be pronounced? if so then Μισέλε)
There is no 'sh' sound in Greek. It is just spelled σ in foreign and loan words.
*Christina = Χριστίνα* is exactly right!
*Ellen = Έλεν*
For the purposes of this transcription exercise I would only use one λ.
*Jeroen* = is this a German ö (Γερέν, maybe, or possibly even Γερέρν), or the 'oo' in English _book_ (Γερούν, I guess) or the 'oo' in English _food_ (definitely Γερούν)?
*Cynthia = Σίνθια* You got this one, too!
*Kaey = Καϊ* also looks right to me.



Tao said:


> This I find only a bit vague -- the part about digraphs (αι, ει, etcetera). Three combinations that have an [ee] sound while ι and η are also [ee]? That's FIVE times I count!


υ (when not preceded by α or ε) is also [ee]. That's SIX! See how easy modern Greek pronunciation is?


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## Tao

Thank you very much, Kevman


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## jaxlarus

Hey there and sorry to interfere, cause looking at Kevman’s post, he’s really done a remarkable job! In addition to what he states, we are trying to simplify the orthography of foreign transliterated names (and even words of foreign origin) in Greek, thus rendering e.g. τραίνο into τρένο, μπύρα into μπίρα and Τζων into Τζον.   

  Now, concerning the names: The thing is that you don’t state the language the names are in. 

  For example if *Sergio* is Italian, then we’d call him *Σέρτζιο* (pronounced /Serdzio/ since there’s no /j/ (as in *j*ust) sound in standard (mainland) Greek, in contrast with the Greek spoken on Cyprus. If on the other hand *Sergio* is a Spaniard, we would transcribe his name as *Σέρχιο*, because that’s how it sounds like in Spanish. If he’s German, then it would be *Ζέργκιο* and so on…

*Brendan *would be *Μπρένταν*
*Aleksandar *– *Αλεξάνταρ*[Greek equivalent _Αλέξανδρος_of course]
*Fraukje *– *Φράουκγιε*
*Peter *– *Πέιτερ** [English *Πίτερ*, German *Πέτερ*, Greek equivalent *Πέτρος*]
*John *– If English *Τζον*[Gr. equivalent _Γιάννης_]
*Ruud *– *Ρίιντ*or just *Ριντ*
*Rudy *– *Ρούντι *
*Marie-Michelle* – *Μαρί-Μισέλ* if as in French
*Christina *– *Κριστίνα*or *Χριστίνα* accordingly [Gr. equivalent _Χριστίνα_] 
*Ellen *– *Έλεν *[_Ελένη_, _Έλενα_]
*Jeroen *– *Γερόον*or *Γερούν*(I’m taking for granted that he’s Dutch)
*Cynthia *– *Σίνθια*
*Kaey *– *Κάι****

  Please note the use of *διαλυτικά *[the diaeresis/umlaut mark ( *¨* )]. They are not placed over the diphthong, if the first vowel is stressed [άι, έι, όι etc]. In the asterisk marked cases, they are not needed.

And as for the link "you find only a bit vague": It concerns the attic/classic pronunciation of Greek, not the modern one which is way different. Although, I must say, when we take classic Greek at school (what we call 'ancient Greek'), or when we deal with a classic passage we read it exactly the same as if it were modern.


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## Tao

Wow. Thank you very much too, Jaxlarus. You make it very clear


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## Tao

Hmmm, I'm still uncertain what would describe the [w] sound. If one would for example translate _Willem_ to Greek would it then be _Ωίλεμ_? I thought the [o] and _ sounds would... "roughly" make a [w]._


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## jaxlarus

Again, it depends where this Willem is from, though I have to tell you that *Ωίλεμ *would neither sound or look as making any sense in Greek.
If he's German, then he'd be *Βίλεμ*.
If the w is pronounced as in the english word 'will', then he'd be *Γουίλεμ*.


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## Kevman

There seems to be a bit of variation in transcribing the English /w/ sound into Greek. I do see *γου* before a vowel quite often, but note also what I believe are the most accepted Greek spellings of *Ουίλ(λ)ιαμ Σαίξπηρ*, *Ουάσινγκτον*, and *Τζ. Ο. Μπους*.

Not to mention the reference to George *Βάσιγκτον* in the famous _Υμνος εις την ελευθερίαν_ of Solomos, which I think is a very old-fashioned (and probably idiosyncratic to Solomos) version.


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## jaxlarus

I quite agree. Even thought so myself as I was typing the previous thread.
The fact is that you can find many variations. 
*William *can be found both as *Γουίλιαμ *(eg Σαίξπηρ, Στάιρον, Νταφόε...) and *Ουίλιαμ *(eg Χέρσελ, Γκόλντιντγκ, Γέιτς...)
*Washington *is always *Ουάσινγκτον *when referring to the DC or George Washington, but the *Γουάσινγκτον *version can be encountered when referring to other people as Τζορτζ Γουάσινγκτον Κάρβερ, Ντένζελ Γουάσινγκτον etc.
There are no standard forms of transliteration...


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## Tao

Thanks for the responses  Been a while but I'm back.


If it's about names I have a question about the double use of the L or Λ (or any other name that has a double letter like 'Emma'). It was said before that for the purpose of this exercise the double letter should be avoided, but now I'd like to know.

If the name *Ellen* is converted to Greek, would *Έλλεν *be okay instead of *Έλεν* (since it seems they sound exactly the same)? Έλλεν seems okay to me and more accurate.

And if we're at it anyway, how about the name *Emma*? *Έμα* or *Έμμα*;



If you still have time at this point to answer  another issue I have is about letter combinations involving the gamma.

I've seen *γγ* implies the sound of [ng], though there are all kinds of variations and rules that simply drive me nuts. I ask myself: why the hassle with all these rules and stuff? Why not keep it simple and more consistent? Looking at Ancient Greek spelling rules it's like: BOOM, I get it; looking at Modern Greek rules I think.... "What the-!"

Anyway, I just looked at the previous posts and I saw the name *Ουάσινγκτον*. It seems there is a *γκ* instead of a *γγ*, even though the sound is [ng] and there is a [t] sound. I kinda understand why, but I just... ah!

If I want to use the word *Thing* and *Think*, would they be like this: *Θιγγ *and *Θιγκ*; Or should *Think* be *Θιγγκ*?
And how would you do *Τhinker*? Is it *Θίγκερ *or *Θίγγκερ *or something else?


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## ireney

Hello. The double consonant thing: It depends  What a wonderful answer eh? To begin with, in cases such as Ellen, since the Greek "equivalent" Ελένη takes one L end it's certain that it will take one L. 
In other words, if there is an "equivalent" the spelling of the transcription will follow its spelling.

Now Έμμα or Έμα? That's where things get a bit complicated. First, let me tell you that in most cases there's no "official" transcription rule. Now, traditionally, if a name has a double consonant it will be transcribed with a double consonant. _However_, much to the confusion of Greeks themselves, some linguists and others have decided, in a rather haphazard way I should note, that the Greek spelling should be simplified 
That means that since we don't pronounce the double consonant we should do away with it. A conversation of where that logic would lead us would be way off topic here but I mention it to explain why quite often you will see names transcribed with a single consonant and sometimes not. You see most people don't see the logic behind it as sound (whether they are right or wrong is a matter for a different conversation too) while others do.

Now γγ. While quite often (almost always to be exact) it is pronounces [ng] it is thought as more or less (along with γκ) as the equivalent of "gg" , or well, just of 'g' . Magellan = Μαγγελάνος for instance.

I promise to answer your question fully later but for now I'll just say that
Thing = Θινγκ Think = Θινκ Thinker = Θίνκερ


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## ripple

how bout marcello in greek?


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## jaxlarus

A guy from Italy called Marcello?
If so... *Μαρτσέλλο*, *Μαρτσέλο*.


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## anthodocheio

But if you want the Greek version of it, is *Μάρκελος*.


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## ripple

How about the greek version of Stella?


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## anthodocheio

ripple said:


> How about the greek version of Stella?


 
Just Στέλλα.


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## sorella2

Hi would someone be able to verify how the names rhys and samantha are spelt in Greek, thanks.


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## anthodocheio

sorella2 said:


> Hi would someone be able to verify how the names rhys and samantha are spelt in Greek, thanks.



Hello!
I don't recognize the name Rhys... 
Samantha in greek is spelt Σαμάνθα.


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## Perseas

sorella2 said:


> Hi would someone be able to verify how the names rhys and samantha are spelt in Greek, thanks.


I would spell _Rhys_ in Greek _Ρις_.


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## Ben Jamin

Tao said:


> Sergio = Σέρδιιω (guessing the δι makes an English 'g' sound)
> 
> Aleksandar = Αλεκσάνδαρ or Αλεξάνδαρ


About Sergio and Aleksandar, wouldn't it be most natural for the Greeks to "rehellenize" those names to their original Greek form: *Σέργιος *and *Αλέξανδρος *?


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## Ben Jamin

Tao said:


> Just for the heck of it, I'm at the moment quickly practising converting names to Greek spelling to see if I get it (I'm very much a self-learner for the most part). Please check if my conversions are in order:



What you are doing is usually called transcription or transliteration of words (not only names).


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## anthodocheio

Ben Jamin said:


> About Sergio and Aleksandar, wouldn't it be most natural for the Greeks to "rehellenize" those names to their original Greek form: *Σέργιος *and *Αλέξανδρος *?



Definitely!


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## Δημήτρης

> *Fraukje = Φράουκγε*


I'd spell it Φράουκγ_ι_ε. Hm... Must be my dialect, I have a hunch we do contrast γε and γιε (and γι vs γιή*).

Regarding the /w/-sound, as a rule of thumb, if it's English: Γου /γu/, if it's Romance languages (eg French): Ου /u/, if it's German/Germanic or Japanese: B /v/. Ofc, transcriptions like Ουάσιγκτον are fossilized, if we were to transcribe it now for the first time, we would certainly use Γουάσιγκτον.


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## jaxlarus

Ben Jamin said:


> About Sergio and Aleksandar, wouldn't it be most natural for the Greeks to "rehellenize" those names to their original Greek form: *Σέργιος *and *Αλέξανδρος *?



Just for the record, *Sergio* is actually not a name of Greek origins: It comes from the Latin _gens_ name *Sergius*, which according to others originates from an even more ancient Etruscan name. It is thought to be related to the Latin word for "servant" or "attendant". In any case, it is indeed hellenized as *Σέργιος*.

Concerning your actual question, it primarily depends on the context and the objective of such a rendition. If, for example, those names denoted characters in fiction who originated from specific countries, - say, Italy and Bosnia respectively -, I would never chose to hellenize them, were I supposed to translate a literary work. 

-----
Υ.Γ.: Γεια και χαρά σου, ρε...Ειρηνικέ Ωκεανέ!


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## anthodocheio

jaxlarus said:


> Υ.Γ.: Γεια και χαρά σου, ρε...Ειρηνικέ Ωκεανέ!



Χρόνια και ζαμάνια δάσκαλε!


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## HDV 63

Hi, wonder if you can help.  Can anyone translate the name Laurence into Greek for me.  Preferably not just the phoenetic version.

Also is Chris simply Χρισ  the full version ie Christopher is I know is something like Χριστοφoροσ
  but I'm not sure can anyone correct the spelling for me?

Many thanks.


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## jaxlarus

Hi, there 

*Laurence*:   *Λαυρέντιος *     (official sounding; would appear e.g. on documents),     *Λαυρέντης* 
*Christopher*:    *Χριστόφορος* 
*Chris*:   *Χρήστος* , *Χρίστος *(alternat ive spelling, mainly and commonly used in Cyprus)

Your spelling was OK, apart from the need for an* acute accent *(_οξεία _[*´*]) over the stressed syllable, and the final form of the letter *sigma *(_σίγμα τελικό_ [*ς*]).


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## HDV 63

Thats great.  Quite pleased with my nearly correct spelling.  Not bad from a short conversational course over ten years ago.  

ευχαριστώ πολύ


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## sotos

If Laurence is female, Λαυρεντία. If Chris is f. > Χριστίνα.


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## rainbow eyes

I would also like to add, that if you want to actually translate the name laurence which comes from the plant laurel, then you could find a few "relative" names in Greek which also come from the same plant, Δάφνη (female), Δάφνης (male), Βάια ή Βάγια (Female), Βάιος ή Βάγιος (male).


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## apmoy70

rainbow eyes said:


> I would also like to add, that if you want to actually translate the name laurence which comes from the plant laurel, then you could find a few "relative" names in Greek which also come from the same plant, Δάφνη (female), Δάφνης (male), Βάια ή Βάγια (Female), Βάιος ή Βάγιος (male).


The spelling of the male name in ancient Greek was *«Δάφνις»* who was-according to mythology-the inventor of pastoral poetry


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## rainbow eyes

I was referring to the modern names and not the ancient ones. So, in modern Greece there is a male name which is spelled "Δάφνης" and is celebrated on the Sunday before the orthodox Easter Sunday along with the other names I mentioned above.


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## HDV 63

Thank you so much for all your replies. 

The Laurence is my husband's name and I would like to have his name engraved in Greek on a gift.  So the closest version would be the one for me. 

*Λαυρέντιος* seems like the best choice then, unless there are any other options.  

Thanks again.


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## jaxlarus

HDV 63 said:


> *Λαυρέντιος* seems like the best choice then, unless there are any other options.



You're welcome!

The ones I already suggested are the closest renditions of your husband's name in Greek, with *Λαυρέντιος *the one most suitable for the occasion you have in mind, yes. That's the one I'd go with myself.

Let us know if he has liked the present **


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## HDV 63

Great.  Just one more question.  Ελενη is the greek of Helen, but should it have an accent over the ε .  I have seen it both ways.  When I went to my conversational class, many years ago, I was shown it without.  Which is correct?

Thanks again in advance of a reply.


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## jaxlarus

In all Greek words consisting of more than one syllable*, the stressed vowel must be indicated by an *acute accent *(_οξεία _[*´*]):

*Ε*·*λέ*·*νη* , *Λαυ*·*ρέ*·*ντι*·*ος*, *μό*·*νος, μο*·*νός an*d so forth

...unless the word is written in all caps, in which case homographs like the two last words would only be distinguishable in a proper context:

*ΕΛΕΝΗ* , *ΛΑΥΡΕΝΤΙΟΣ*, *ΜΟΝΟΣ*, *ΜΟΝΟΣ*

Thus, the _οξεία _can never be omitted and the name *Ελένη *is never correct without it 

____________

* Along with some monosyllables, for purposes of distinction.


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## Δημήτρης

And I'll just confuse HDV even more, by mentioning the polytonic system, and the "atonic" system (which I prefer to call "diacritic-less" in English, cause atonic means something else in English). In the first, even more symbols are used (most of them are useless and thanks god we got rid of them) and in the latter, no accent mark or trema (as in ϊ and ϋ) are used and the reader infers the correct pronunciation from the context (something that most native speakers can do in most cases).


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## Timothy1987

Δημήτρης said:


> I'd spell it Φράουκγ_ι_ε. Hm... Must be my dialect, I have a hunch we do contrast γε and γιε (and γι vs γιή*).
> 
> Regarding the /w/-sound, as a rule of thumb, if it's English: Γου /γu/, if it's Romance languages (eg French): Ου /u/, if it's German/Germanic or Japanese: B /v/. Ofc, transcriptions like Ουάσιγκτον are fossilized, if we were to transcribe it now for the first time, we would certainly use Γουάσιγκτον.



Good Lord, "Γουάσιγκτον" is one of the more offensive translations I've seen, thankfully you didn't shove an "ν" in there next to the "γκ"...


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## Timothy1987

Ben Jamin said:


> About Sergio and Aleksandar, wouldn't it be most natural for the Greeks to "rehellenize" those names to their original Greek form: *Σέργιος *and *Αλέξανδρος *?



You know, it really would, but since Greeks are obsessed with ruining their language, they will of course go to great lengths to accommodate the foreign name, despite having natural fit with their own language.

Because, you know, foreigners will all be reading Greek articles and such, looking to see if their name is pronounced "their way". 

Ridiculous.


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## sorella2

Can someone please verify what the Greek words are for the quote "Grace is Beauty," need to be 100 % sure for tattoo im going to get, Thanks


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## jaxlarus

Hey there sorella2 

I believe this should be someplace else, or consist a new topic altogether, but I have this feeling that *Grace* might be a given name 

There are many ways of saying that in Greek, choosing among verbs like     *είναι *    (is),    *σημαίνει *   (denotes, s tands for) and   *συνεπάγεται *  (means). *Grace*  can be rendered as   *χάρη*  ,     *χάρις *  or  *κομψότητα * and *Bea uty *could be translated as   *ομορφιά*  ,  *ωραιότητα* ,  *κάλλος* , *γοητεία*..  . 

For the use you intend it for, I'd go with *Χάρις σημαίνει Κάλλος*. Capitalized: *ΧΑΡΙΣ ΣΗΜΑΙΝΕΙ ΚΑΛΛΟΣ*. The reasoning behind this choice is that it keeps both the nouns short (two syllables each) and the phrase itself is reminiscent of Classical Greek. Moreover, *Χάρις *is the equivalent woman's name for *Grace* in Modern Greek.

Hope this helped 

-------
P.S.: Have you considered replacing *is *with the "equals" (=) sign?


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## OUFC_86

Hi, can somebody translate the name Luke for me and also the name Witney. Thanks


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## Tassos

Luke is

Ancient: *Λουκᾶς* (_Loukas_)
Modern: *Λουκάς*
Capitalized: *ΛΟΥΚΑΣ*

for more  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luke

As for Whitney, it is derived from the old English for "White Island" (which in Greek is "*Λευκό Νησί*"). There is no name as a direct translation, the closest name from those actually in use would be *Λευκή* (which of course is the female nom. sing. of the adjective white). For anything closer I think you'll have to improvise.


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## Tao

I find it funny, now that I'm back after all this time, to find this old thread I started back then. I recall your great help and am thankful. Let me tell you that I, at some point in time, did not continue studying Greek deeply or very seriously anymore. Looking at this thread made me recall some good memories and it may be very helpful even now, since at certain times I am to speak and teach where sometimes Greek words are to be used for clarity.

As I go through the thread, I am now waiting for Ireney's full answer


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