# Croatian, Serbian (BCS): should/shouldn't



## kloie

In Serbian and Croatian is the verb trebati used for should?
For example: I should have read that book
Trebala sam da pročitala tu knjigu
She shouldn't have went to school with her dog
Ne trabala je da išla u školu s svojem psem
Thanks in advance


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## Duya

Ugh. The story of standard and colloquial verb _trebati_ is long, complicated and somewhat different between Serbian and Croatian. Just that you're aware...

Anyway, when used with verbs (as in _I should do_), it is always impersonal (in B, C, and S). That means that it doesn't have subject, and the verb goes in 3rd person neutral (as in French _il faut que_), and the dependent verb goes to a dependent clause:

Past tense:
*Trebalo je* | da pročitam tu knjigu.
*Nije trebalo *| da ide u školu sa svojim psom.
Present tense:
*Treba* | da pročitam tu knjigu.
*Ne treba *| da ide u školu sa svojim psom.

However, in Croatian (only), personal form is also encountered, and it is more frequent in everyday speech. However, then the dependent verb usually goes to infinitive:

Past tense:
*Trebala sam* pročitati tu knjigu.
*Nije trebala *ići u školu sa svojim psom.
Present tense:
*Trebam* pročitati tu knjigu.
*Ne treba *ići u školu sa svojim psom.

(Corrections welcome, if I made any mistake).


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## DenisBiH

Duya said:


> However, in Croatian (only), personal form is also encountered, and it is more frequent in everyday speech. However, then the dependent verb usually goes to infinitive:




Errm, I wouldn't say this is Croatian only.

_Trebaš pročitati/trebao si pročitati_ sound closer to me than _Treba da pročitaš/trebalo je da pročitaš._ In fact, I believe I use the impersonal treba + infinitive mostly for general recommendations and such (_treba biti pažljiv prema roditeljima_). I would have to check what the standard says though.

However, kloie asked only for Serbian and Croatian so better not to continue about Bosnian usage here, to avoid confusion. This is what I could google on short notice (can't post the link since it's to another forum):



> Modalni glagol trebati u bosanskom i hrvatskom jeziku može imati i lični  i bezlični oblik. U srpskom jeziku o ovom pitanju još uvijek se vode  rasprave, čak su se održavali i lingvistički seminari (personalizacija  glagola trebati) i njihovi stručnjaci sve su bliže tome da prihvate  hrvatsko rješenje (tj. da dopuste mogućnost ličnog oblika gdje je to  potrebno).


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## kloie

so to say
I should drink the cola=trebala bih piti colu
I should have drunken the cola=trebala sam piti colu
I should not drink cola=ne bih trebala piti colu
I shouldnt have drunk the cola=nisam trebala piti colu
thanks in advance
by the way cola is the coke soda


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## Duya

kloie said:


> so to say
> I should drink the cola=trebala bih piti colu
> I should have drunken the cola=trebala sam piti colu
> I should not drink cola=ne bih trebala piti colu
> I shouldnt have drunk the cola=nisam trebala piti colu
> thanks in advance


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## Duya

DenisBiH said:


> Errm, I wouldn't say this is Croatian only.
> 
> _Trebaš pročitati/trebao si pročitati_ sound closer to me than _Treba da pročitaš/trebalo je da pročitaš._ In fact, I believe I use the impersonal treba + infinitive mostly for general recommendations and such (_treba biti pažljiv prema roditeljima_). I would have to check what the standard says though.



I must admit that, after 20 years of living in Serbia, my sense for Bosnian idiom is somewhat loosened. I don't always recognize what I picked up living here, and what was in my native dialect. 

With the caveat above, I would say that those are used interchangeably in my native dialect, but I'll concede that usage varies across Bosnia and Herzegovina.

I also participated in another language forum discussion, where the conclusion (if Forum discussions ever come to a conclusion  ) was that Croatian solution was better. The catch and complications arise when _trebati_ occurs in a dependent clause, but I would rather not go there (and I'm not sure if I'd be able to without confusing myself and everybody else  ). I think we gave Kloie a satisfactory answer.

Here's a link to Board for Standardization of Serbian Language (point #4):

http://www.rastko.rs/filologija/odbor/odluka012_c.html#_Toc33157657

However, it is too brief to be of practical use.


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## xpictianoc

bezlično upotrebljenje glagola "trebati" liči mi malo na bugarski, gde ne postoji personalizacija glagola "trebati" ali u svakom slučaju koristi se glagol "трябва" (tryabva). Ali na forum imamo stručnjaka od toga i verovatno Orlin će nam to najbolje objasniti


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## Orlin

xpictianoc said:


> bezlično upotrebljenje glagola "trebati" liči mi malo na bugarski, gde ne postoji personalizacija glagola "trebati" ali u svakom slučaju koristi se glagol "трябва" (tryabva). Ali na forum imamo stručnjaka od toga i verovatno Orlin će nam to najbolje objasniti


Uz "malu ispravku" da ja nisam stručnjak na lingvističkom području, ti si u pravu - istina je da je u bugarskom samo "bezlična" upotreba moguća (ovo je ipak off-topic baš ovde), a drugi forumaši kažu da je ovaj model još uvek jedini dozvoljeni u standardnom srpskom, no očekujemo promene većinom pod "hrvatskim" uticajem pošto je "lična" upotreba već ušla u razgovornu praksu.


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## Miloss

Sve sto ste napisali u zavisnosti od podrucja u kome se koristi srpskohrvatski jezik moze se tretirati kao prihvatljivo.. 

Pozz


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## TriglavNationalPark

MOD NOTE: Discussion about Serbo-Croatian moved HERE


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## Mari Mari

Pozdrav svima!

Koliko je meni poznato u srpskom jeziku je nepravilno reći *trebala sam* kao i *trebao sam*. 

Po mom mišljenju ispravno je reći:

I should have read that book.
*Trebalo je* da pročitam tu knjigu.

She shouldn't have went to school with her dog.
*Nije trebalo* da ide u školu sa svojim psom.

(
trebalo je da pročitam tu knjigu
trebalo je da pročitaš tu knjigu
trebalo je da pročita tu knjigu
trebalo je da pročitamo tu knjigu
trebalo je da pročitate tu knjigu
trebalo je da pročitaju tu knjigu

nije trebalo da idem u školu sa svojim psom
nije trebalo da ideš u školu sa svojim psom
nije trebalo da ide u školu sa svojim psom
nije trebalo da idemo u školu sa svojim psom
nije trebalo da idete u školu sa svojim psom
nije trebalo da idu u školu sa svojim psom
)


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