# assimilation: る＋の＝＞んの



## Nino83

Hello everyone.

I often read sentences like 何して*んの*？, where the syllable _ru_ assimilates with the following consonant, while I've never read sentences like ジョンさんが勉強して*んの*を知っています。.
What I'd like to ask you is if this assimilation happens only with the final particle _no_ (interrogative/affirmative _no, nodesu, nodesuka_ and so on) or if it happens also with the nominalizer _no_ (_no_ + case particle).


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## karlalou

～してんの is colloquial, and sounds very casual. It clashes in style with を知っています. It's usually to talk to close friends or relatives, or can sound rude or foolish. It can be accompanied with よ、ね、かしら etc. It can be してんだ（よ、ね、よね、ろう, etc.）, or してんです is also possible.


By the way, して*るんです*が, 思*うんです*が, ということ*なんです* and the like are normally polite as colloquial. These ん are all in place for の.


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> if this assimilation happens only with the final particle _no_ (interrogative/affirmative _no, nodesu, nodesuka_ and so on) or if it happens also with the nominalizer _no_ (_no_ + case particle).



No rules.
勉強してんの？(This is what you've suggested. ん before の.) But

勉強してんです。
勉強してんだ。 
勉強してんじゃないの？

（こういうのってどうなんですかね？しょうがないのかな？）


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## Schokolade

Nino83 said:


> if it (る＋の⇒んの) happens also with the nominalizer _no_ (_no_ + case particle).



Yes. *る*+*の*⇒*んの* can also happen with the nominaliser *の* + case particle (が、の、を、に、と、より、から etc), but _only _in colloquial/casual speech. Eg:

「ジョンさんが勉強して*んの*、知ってるよ。」-- して*るの*(*を*)⇒して*んの*(*を*) (← を is left out)
「浮気して*んのが*バレた。」-- して*るの**が*⇒して*んの**が*
「写真で見*んのと*生で見*んのと*じゃ、全然違うな～。」-- 見*るの**と*⇒見*んの**と*
「待たされ*んのに*は慣れてるよ。」-- され*るの**に*は⇒され*んの**に*は
「逃げ*んので*精いっぱいだったわ…。」-- 逃げ*るので*⇒逃げ*んので*


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## Nino83

Thank you all!


Schokolade said:


> Yes. *る*+*の*⇒*んの* can also happen with the nominaliser *の* + case particle (が、の、を、に、と、より、から etc), but _only _in colloquial/casual speech.


Thank you for the examples, Schokolade.
It's interesting the fact  that the particle を is easily dropped.


frequency said:


> 勉強してんです。
> 勉強してんだ。
> 勉強してんじゃないの？


In these cases can, for example, 勉強してんだ be interpreted both as 勉強して(ください)のだ and 勉強してるのだ, or only the second interpretation is possible (i.e as far as I know のだ is not used after an "imperative/request" so there isn't any ambiguity)?


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> only the second interpretation is possible


Yes, 勉強してんだ is normally understood as _I'm studying_. Formally, it should be 勉強しているのだ。

But if you say 勉強しているのだ, you may sound like a samurai man―a bit pompous. 勉強してんだ is more everyday and casual speech.


> (i.e as far as I know のだ is not used after an "imperative/request" so there isn't any ambiguity)?


Yes, excellent. Since ～～のだ shows affirmation, imperative/request speech conflicts with this affirmative way. So say
勉強しろ！, 勉強して！ or 勉強してください.

Of course you can say 勉強してんだ。 to somebody who is studying (not you), when you want to make sure with him or her.


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## Nino83

Good! 
Thank you


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## Nino83

Hello again!
What about 分か*んね*?
In this page it is said it is a contraction of 分か*るね* while in this page it is said it is a contraction of 分か*らない*, cognate to 分かんない of the Tokyo dialect.
Can both る and ら be contracted to ん. If is it the case, does the meaning of 分かんね change depending on intonation (interrogative 分かんね? = 分かるね?, affirmative 分かんね = 分からない)?
Another question. Is the contraction of ない to ね perceived as dialectal and rude in Tokyo or is it widespread and considered acceptable in speech in the Kantō region?


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## karlalou

分からない and 分かんない are nothing else but the negative form of 分かる.

ね of 分かるね is clearly an affirmative marker.

All of these can be used as a casual question.


分かんね？ is ambiguous, can mean either 分かるね？ or 分からない？.
I need contexts and the tone of voice to know what it is. It can be soft or rough or rude or tender, but never be standard or polite.


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> What about 分か*んね*?
> while in this page it is said it is a contraction of 分か*らない*, is it widespread and considered acceptable in speech in the Kantō region?


You know, this page says "North".

Now we often and informally say じゃね？, instead of じゃない？
This is the way of Ibaraki dialect that has become hugely popular among us these years. That わかんね makes me feel that the person who made this page might have found somewhere. I say that one is similar to it, and the people in Ibaraki or northern areas may say わかんね, actually. If so, it is わからない.

Usually, わかんねえ would be the slang of わかんない.

Say わかんないんじゃね？aloud with a bit strong rising intonation. You'll find that you become a funny countryman. (This is the reason why this way has become very popular I sometimes use it, too.)


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## Nino83

Thank you everyone!


karlalou said:


> I need contexts and the tone of voice to know what it is.


So 分かんね could be ambiguous (分かるね? => 分かんね?; 分からない => 分かんね) without context and intonation.


frequency said:


> This is the way of Ibaraki dialect that has become hugely popular among us these years.


How much popular? Is it condidered impolite/dialectal to say じゃね/分かんね? For example, I am at the restaurant, the waiter asks me something but I don't understand. In this context is it considered impolite to say ごめん、分かんね, ごめん、分かんない, or are they acceptable alternative forms of ごめん、分からない?


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> I am at the restaurant, the waiter asks me something but I don't understand. In this context is considered impolite to say ごめん、分かんね, ごめん、分かんない,
> are they acceptable alternative forms of ごめん、分からない?



The best way would be ごめんなさい、分かりません。 Yes, the two may be (too) casual. But ごめん、わかんね may not be too bad in Ibaraki or in northern areas. With the Ibaraki intonation, that would be much better and people think you're Italian in Ibaraki.



> How much popular?


Use it in conversation with your friends.


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## Nino83

frequency said:


> people think you're Italian in Ibaraki
> Use it in conversation with your friends.


Ahah, ok!  
Does 分からないです fit in this context (restaurant)?


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> Does 分からないです fit in this context (restaurant)?


Yes, very good.


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## Nino83

Ok, so ないです and ません are both good (んじゃね? ). 
I read that ません sounds a bit "robotic", cold, or too much formal nowdays. Is it so?


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## frequency

分かりません vs 分からないです？　They're okay and you don't need to be afraid how they're different.

By the way, 


Nino83 said:


> ないです and ません are both good (んじゃね?


Sorry, I misled you.
Your friend doesn't understand something. You're asking him or her: 「（きみ）わかんないんじゃね？」 Don't you understand it?
One more,
There is another different person (3rd). You're asking your friend:「（あの人は）わかんないんじゃね？」

This is a not good point the Japanese language has.


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## Nino83

Thank you again!


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> Thank you again!


You're welcome. By the way, the topic is getting complicated.

I think your question must be
わかんない---informal/slang/masculine→わかんねえ. These わかんない・わかんねえ would be わかんね, in Ibaraki/northern areas.
In this case, that ね isn't marker particle (See Etymology 2).
So I agree with "contraction" you said in your #8, if we talk about わかんね―"I don't know".

The Ibaraki じゃね？ is their way of じゃない？ You know, ない can easily? be ね there.


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## Nino83

frequency said:


> You know, ない can easily? be ね there.


Exactly. In Ibaraki ね can be both ない and ね. I presume intonation will be really important there.


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## frequency

Oh lol good. Search 「茨城弁」 (Ibaraki ben) on google   Ibaraki no minasan gomen nasai.


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## Nino83

> The pitch accent of the Ibaraki dialect is also fairly different from standard Japanese, typically *rising at the end of statements* and *falling in questions*.


It's the other way around. If one doesn't know that, it would be easy to take an interrogative _ne_ for an affirmative _nai_.


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## frequency

> *falling in questions*.


Yes, I suppose this says, for example, おまえはどこから来た？, this 来た would be spoken in a falling intonation. You know, note that this is a usual question/interrogative.

～ね？（ない？） is not. For example, さむくない？＝さむくね？(Ibaraki), わかんないんじゃない？=わかんないんじゃね？(Ibaraki)


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## Nino83

Yes. 
I was thinking about those situation where you have a verb ending in る followed by ね, for example 分かるね? 
I was wondering if it is common to reduce 分かるね to 分かんね.


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> reduce 分かるね to 分かんね.


Not the Ibaraki ben, when we say 分かるね？, this ね is exactly marker particle: Etymology 2.

And do you mean this 分かるね？can be 分かんね？ Yes, it's possible. Common? Not greatly common, and more popular is 分かるよね？


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## Nino83

frequency said:


> Not greatly common


Ah, ok, interesting! 
So if one hears someone say 分かんね he/she is probably saying 分からない and not 分かるね.  
Thanks


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