# Pronunciation: sixth



## Advenedizo

This will look kind of silly, but I've always wondered how native speakers pronounce the word 'sixth'. I've always said 'sicth' but I don't know whether it's correct.


----------



## GreenWhiteBlue

It is pronounced as "siksth" -- just as you would say six, and then add an unvoiced [th]. if you say "sikth", with no "s" sound in the middle, it will sound as if you have a lisp.


----------



## pickarooney

Am I imagining it, or is the pronunciation 'sikth' becoming more popular? Is this a feature of a particular accent or where does it come from?


----------



## Jam on toast

I'm pretty sure I hear most people (here in the UK), including myself, say "sicth" day-to-day, except in newsreaders and people giving formal speeches or when people are trying to emphasise the word.

For example, I think I'd say (not write):
"That's the *sixth* time you've come home late now, you're grounded!", but
"Mum's thinking of coming some time around the sicth of December.

It's really a form of laziness that I probably wouldn't notice when the word isn't emphasised. I 'm sure phonetics experts would explain it better, but the "s-th" (front upper breathed-front middle breathed) sound combination is quite hard work and so perhaps people just avoid it if they can get away with it.


----------



## JamesM

That's interesting.  I have pretty much the same reaction as GreenWhiteBlue's.  If I heard "sicth" for sixth I would think the person had difficulty pronouncing words with "s" in them.  In my experience, people around me who are being lazy about saying "sixth" would drop the "th" and make it "six".


----------



## panjandrum

pickarooney said:


> Am I imagining it, or is the pronunciation 'sikth' becoming more popular? Is this a feature of a particular accent or where does it come from?


I don't know where it comes from but I am sure you are right.
I suspect that Henry VI is still the sixth most of the time, but I support Jam on toast's theory.  I must listen more carefully.


----------



## patrick_socal

JamesM said:


> That's interesting. I have pretty much the same reaction as GreenWhiteBlue's. If I heard "sicth" for sixth I would think the person had difficulty pronouncing words with "s" in them. In my experience, people around me who are being lazy about saying "sixth" would drop the "th" and make it "six".


 
My experience as well.
It breaks my teeth to try and say it the other way.


----------



## natkretep

I'm casting my mind back when I was in the *Sixth Form* at school, when we were members of the *Sixth Form Society*. I think if we said it quickly, it was the 'th' that went rather than the 's'.


----------



## ewie

I agree with previous speakers who say that the /th/ is more likely to be dropped than the /s/.  (I _imagine_ it's far commoner to drop a *final* sound than a *medial* one)


----------



## TheGist

If some people are lazy about pronouncing "sixth", I wonder how they pronounce "the si*xth s*ense"?! 

The same question was torturing me when I started to learn English a long time ago, now it's no longer a problem for me.


----------



## Brioche

I had a look in Daniel Jones' English Pronouncing Dictionary.

He gives /sɪksθ/ and /sɪkstθ/.

Then I listened to myself, and decided that I use both.


----------



## ewie

Brioche said:


> /sɪkstθ/


 ~ I think Mr.Jones was pulling our leg on that occasion: /sɪkstθ/ is _even more_ impossible to say than /sɪksθ/ ~ I have to pull a face like a cobra spitting out a feather in order to articulate it.


----------



## Ann O'Rack

TheGist said:


> If some people are lazy about pronouncing "sixth", I wonder how they pronounce "the si*xth s*ense"?!
> 
> The same question was torturing me when I started to learn English a long time ago, now it's no longer a problem for me.


 
As "the sick sense"!


----------



## ewie

Ann O'Rack said:


> As "the sick sense"!


Not sure if you're kidding there, Anno, but that's exactly how I say it.

(Let's not forget the 'classic' tongue-twister _The sixth sheik's sixth sheep's sick_.  Here it is in IPA, using Mr.Jones (shall we say?) 'unusual' pronunciation of _sixth_:   /ðəsɪkstθ∫i:kssɪkstθ∫i:pssɪk/  
That was from memory ~ I've probably misquoted it)


----------



## liliput

It should be pronounced "siksth". Needless to say, native speakers have almost as much trouble with it as foreign learners. Fifth, eighth and twelfth are frequently problematical too. I feel like I'm spitting feathers.


----------



## JulianStuart

liliput said:


> It should be pronounced "siksth". Needless to say, native speakers have almost as much trouble with it as foreign learners. Fifth, eighth and twelfth are frequently problematical too. I feel like I'm spitting feathers.



I'm in the sicks-th, eight-th and twelf-th camps. Just a reminder that these complicated, sometimes almost impossible, successions of sounds, linked to a particular word are considered just *one* syllable, even when pluralized   This must also confuse them  _Three sixths of the sheik's six sheep're sick_.


----------



## Pedro y La Torre

pickarooney said:


> Am I imagining it, or is the pronunciation 'sikth' becoming more popular? Is this a feature of a particular accent or where does it come from?



I can't say I've ever heard this pronunciation in my part of Ireland.


----------



## panjandrum

See Pronunciation: twelfth for how to pronounce twelth 

I don't believe we (round here) have any problem articulating all the bits of eighth, but sikth is the norm.  
For me sikth, eighth and twelth are all of the same level of difficulty - not much.


----------



## Pedro y La Torre

panjandrum said:


> See Pronunciation: twelfth for how to pronounce twelth
> 
> I don't believe we (round here) have any problem articulating all the bits of eighth, but sikth is the norm.
> For me sikth, eighth and twelth are all of the same level of difficulty - not much.



Many down here will tend to drop the th sound, so eighth morphs into something sounding like "ate" but sikth is totally new to me. Is it really the normal pronunciation in Ulster? Are we agreed it sounds like sick with a th added on?


----------



## panjandrum

Pedro y La Torre said:


> Many down here will tend to drop the th sound, so eighth morphs into something sounding like "ate" but sikth is totally new to me. Is it really the normal pronunciation in Ulster? Are we agreed it sounds like sick with a th added on?


It sounds like sick with th on the end.
I wouldn't dare claim to speak for all of us, but it's the version I hear.
I suppose there might be a transient /s/ in there - sicksth - and I suppose it's possible that I don't hear it as prominently as I should.
But my first response reflects what I think I hear.
I hope that isn't too much equivocation


----------



## Gwan

I think (upon attempting to self-evaluate) I would fall into the 'six' camp rather than the 'sikth' one, with perhaps a bit of a longer 'ts' sound on the end, like 'sickts' but it's very hard to say once you start self-consciously quizzing yourself...


----------



## Jam on toast

Just to clarify my previous post, "sickth" is also what I often hear where I live, around Bristol.


----------



## panjandrum

So we have identified three variants.
... /sɪksθ/
...  /sɪkθ/
...  /sɪks/


----------



## ewie

panjandrum said:


> So we have identified three variants.
> ... /sɪksθ/
> ...  /sɪkθ/
> ...  /sɪks/


Four if you include Mr.D.Jones' feather-regurgitating version _[post #11]_:
/sɪkstθ/


----------



## Brioche

ewie said:


> ~ I think Mr. Jones was pulling our leg on that occasion: /sɪkstθ/ is _even more_ impossible to say than /sɪksθ/ ~ I have to pull a face like a cobra spitting out a feather in order to articulate it.



Well, I disagree.  
Try it, seriously.  Say /sɪks/,  /sɪkst/ ,  /sɪkstθ/

The T position lines up the tongue to say θ, and slides forward from the alveolar ridge towards the teeth.


----------



## pickarooney

I understand where Brioche is coming from and the more I try to pronounce it the more clear it is to me that there should be _something _between the 's' and the 'th', whether that be a stop a /t/ or a dental symbol.


----------



## panjandrum

When I pronounce it as /sɪksθ/ The transition from /s/ to /θ/ is a small tongue movement.  I could stick in a small /t/ on the way, but it seems to me to be a quite significant interruption.
That, of course, is because I don't naturally do it that way


----------



## JamesM

Brioche said:


> Well, I disagree.
> Try it, seriously. Say /sɪks/, /sɪkst/ , /sɪkstθ/
> 
> The T position lines up the tongue to say θ, and slides forward from the alveolar ridge towards the teeth.


 
For me, I would have to expel air twice, once for the "t" and once for the "th". It comes out "six-tuh-thuh". I find it very difficult.


----------



## natkretep

JamesM said:


> For me, I would have to expel air twice, once for the "t" and once for the "th". It comes out "six-tuh-thuh". I find it very difficult.



I think the /t/ would not be aspirated: it would sound very unnatural to aspirate it.


----------



## JamesM

How do you make the sound of a "t" and not aspirate it?  In other words, what is the difference between "sixth" and "sixt-th" if you don't aspirate the "t"?  I can't see how it could be done.


----------



## Forero

When I say _eighth_, I pronounce _eight_ first, including a non-aspirated, unreleased _t_, and then _th_.

For _fifth_ and _twelfth_, I usually leave out the _f_, except when I speak very slowly.

When I say _sixth_, I pronounce _six_ first, no _t_ sound, and then _th_. I don't think I have ever heard it as "sikth" or "sixt-th".


----------



## JamesM

Forero said:


> When I say _eighth_, I pronounce _eight_ first, including a non-aspirated, unreleased _t_, and then _th_.


 
Thanks, Forero. So my question is... if you are not aspirating the t in "eighth", what is the difference between "eigh-th" and "eigh(silent t)-th" for you?

I don't see how the mechanics of them could be different.


----------



## natkretep

I don't do sixt-th myself, but I was trying to imagine what Brioche and others could mean. The difference between six-th and sixt-th is that in the latter, you actually place your tongue behind the teeth for just a while before actually saying th. So, as Forero says, non-aspirated and unreleased, but still a [t] because you hold the tongue in that position. Many people have this when the 't' sound is at the end, eg in 'cat'.


----------



## wokster

This has always annoyed me!

It should be pronounced six-th or sics-th.

I hear so many people, maths teachers, news readers - all sorts of people who should know better - pronouncing it incorrectly.

The most common mispronunciation is sic-th. But I have also heard six and even more lazily - sick.

It really frustrates me that no-one can say it correctly!


----------



## Majorbloodnock

I must admit I'm rather more relaxed about it. I tend to pronounce it correctly, since my accent is fairly close to Received Pronunciation. However, I live fairly close to South London, which means I'm more likely to hear it pronounced *sikf* than any other more polished variation. Usually accompanied by a host of grammatical errors, as in "Well, 'e run 'is race, but 'e only come in sikf. Dunno wot's up wiv 'im."

(Translation for non-native speakers - "Well, he ran his race, but he only managed sixth place. I have no idea what the problem is with him.")


----------



## sound shift

I believe I pronounce all the consonants in "sixth". I have never had any particular difficulty with it, as far as I am aware. English goes in for consonant clusters rather more than the Romance languages, so "sixth" should not give native speakers of English as much difficulty as it does Spanish speakers.


----------



## catamaran

Hear the pronunciation from http://www.forvo.com/word/sixth/. i wonder why it sounds like /sikst/?


----------



## natkretep

That's not what I hear catamaran. The first three have clear 'th' sounds to me. The last one is more indistinct.


----------



## Alxmrphi

This thread took me a bit by surprise. I usually think I have an instinct about how discussions will play out.
Anyway, my relationship with "sixth" is that there are two pronunciations (talking about UK), which are: one that is more representative of the orthography, [sɪksθ] and then the one that abstracts a little bit, [sɪkθ].

Now, my experience is the more "correct" pronunciation (and I use this term loosely as many people know my opinions on what can be called 'correct' linguistically) is the one that contains the  [plain][S][/plain], and I did used to think I just got raised or used to relying more on spelling than what other people say. The very 'high-end' or 'authoritative' pronunciation is without an  [plain][S][/plain], for many people, teachers, news readers, public figures, all our intellectuals (including Stephen Fry, Jeremy Paxman etc), politicians all use the version without  [plain][S][/plain],. It's very much what you're "expected" to say and using the more normal "lowly" colloquial version that's somehow been regularised is sort of seen as a reliance on spelling.

Now what I'm saying here is how I've viewed this word in my life (and I'm not saying this is the case now), but I'm delving back into my non-linguistic past and bringing up opinions I do remember having, and I'm using that as a point of discussion, not saying "_right now there is a more correct pronunciation, and it is..._" so please don't take that meaning from my post.

So reading that the idea of a pronunciation without an  [plain][S][/plain],is somehow not as correct or socially advantageous is really weird for me.
The true situation (now adding in my modern opinion), is that there is a historic tradition of using two pronunciations. I've never heard a [t] before the fricative, no idea where that comes from if people actually say it.

@James: [t]s can be unaspirated if they're not in a stressed syllable. We've been analysing plosives in spectrographic analyses in a module on Phonetic Science, and you can see how the wave forms differ with seeing bursts of plosion (VOT) in comparisons of words, very interesting to see "physical" evidence of sounds. I think everyone should be familiar with it 
(Just noticed the posts above the last few are very old, didn't realise that!)


----------



## ewie

natkretep said:


> That's not what I hear catamaran. The first three have clear 'th' sounds to me.


The first three are obviously all 'careful' pronunciations.
The last one sounds like a robot


----------



## Alxmrphi

ewie said:


> The first three are obviously all 'careful' pronunciations.
> The last one sounds like a robot


Agree.
The last one's actually been voted down and deemed bad by other users, not the one you want to be paying attention to.


----------



## tFighterPilot

Interesting thread. I've been wondering about how this word is pronounced and got my share of answers. 

I wonder though, how would one pronounce "Henry the Si*xth's th*ing"?


----------



## The Prof

wokster said:


> This has always annoyed me!
> 
> The most common mispronunciation is sic-th. But I have also heard six and even more lazily - sick.
> 
> It really frustrates me that no-one can say it correctly!



That last pronunciation - _*sick *_- is driving me mad too!  It is particularly noticable in the Formula 1 commentaries.  I have lost count of the number of times that the commentator has told us that  "_Alonso / Webber / Hamilton (etc.) is sick_".  I can never hold back my sarcastic "_Oh, the poor man.  What bad luck to be taken ill in the middle of a race" _(or variations on it).    Grrrrr.


----------



## The Prof

tFighterPilot said:


> Interesting thread. I've been wondering about how this word is pronounced and got my share of answers.
> 
> I wonder though, how would one pronounce "Henry the Si*xth's th*ing"?



I wouldn't - I would look long and hard for another way of wording it! 

Seriously, though, although I could say it with all the sounds there (which I accept that not everyone can), I think that I would need a few goes at that one before I was happy with it. Firstly, it is definitely a tongue-twister, and secondly, I think it would sound over-the-top to pronounce it carefully and completely. That would put me in a dilemma - should I say it wrong, or sound unnatural? So being honest with myself, I would probably settle for 'wrong', and say' "_Henry the *sixs* *th*ing_", saying it quickly and hoping that nobody noticed!


----------



## PaulQ

ewie said:


> ~ I think Mr.Jones was pulling our leg on that occasion: /sɪkstθ/ is _even more_ impossible to say than /sɪksθ/


I don't think it is that rare, on occasion, I would come close to sicks-t-th with the *t* only just noticeable. The *s* to *t* and the *t* to *th* transitions are easy steps between *ks* and *th*.


----------



## Chasint

I always say "siksth" and find it annoying when I hear newsreaders or other professional speakers saying "sikth".

I have to admit however that "sixth sense" can be problematical if I think too much about it or try to make a gap between the words.


----------



## Einstein

Tongue-twisters have been mentioned, but I think we should say explicitly that everything depends on the following word. If it begins with a vowel it presents no problem; just think of "the sixth orange" as "the six thorange". It's when the following word begins with an "s" or a "t" that it becomes difficult. When I say "the sixth time" quickly, I'm more likely to omit the "th", or pronounce it very lightly - "the six time" - than the "s" sound - "the sickth time".


----------



## Forero

JamesM said:


> Thanks, Forero. So my question is... if you are not aspirating the t in "eighth", what is the difference between "eigh-th" and "eigh(silent t)-th" for you?
> 
> I don't see how the mechanics of them could be different.


The /t/ in _eighth_ is just a /t/ as in _eights_, but followed by /th/ instead of /s/. There is a little "trick" to it though, involving both the front and the tip of the tongue.

Normally for a /t/, the tongue tip completely blocks the oral air passage at a point on the front surface of the roof of the mouth. This could be done for _eighth_, and the tongue tip could be slid down to the position for the /th/ while keeping the air passage blocked, but for speed I use the blade of the tongue instead of the tip to close the air passage at the /t/ position, leaving the tip free to get to the /th/ position quickly.

For the /t/, the front of the tongue completely blocks the oral air passage, with approximately simultaneous cessation of the vibration of the voicebox, ending the long _a_ sound in a way characteristic of a /t/. I do not consider the /t/ as silent because it does completely stop the vowel sound, and the way it does it is audible and not like the way a voiced consonant would do it nor quite like the way a /p/ or a /k/ would do it.

Then the air flows again for the /th/, which sound continues until the next word. There is nothing between the /t/ and the /th/ because the tongue tip is already in position for the /th/ when the air flow is resumed.


----------



## Chasint

Forero said:


> ...For the /t/, the front of the tongue completely blocks the oral air passage, with approximately simultaneous cessation of the vibration of the voicebox, ending the long _a_ sound in a way characteristic of a /t/. I do not consider the /t/ as silent because it does completely stop the vowel sound, and the way it does it is audible and not like the way a voiced consonant would do it nor quite like the way a /p/ or a /k/ would do it.
> 
> Then the air flows again for the /th/, which sound continues until the next word. There is nothing between the /t/ and the /th/ because the tongue tip is already in position for the /th/ when the air flow is resumed.


I do this and I've never heard it said otherwise by BE speakers. 

I have only ever heard the pronunciation 'eith' from (some) AE speakers.


----------



## Forero

Biffo said:


> I do this and I've never heard it said otherwise by BE speakers.
> 
> I have only ever heard the pronunciation 'eith' from (some) AE speakers.


Interesting.

I pronounce _eighteen_ as if it were "eight-teen" with two /t/s. The first is unreleased, as in _eights_, and the other is the aspirated /t/ in _-teen_ just like the one in _ten_. I have heard BrE speakers pronounce _eighteen_ like "ay-teen" with only one /t/, at the beginning of _-teen_, leaving the first syllable open.

I even pronounce _thirteen_, _fourteen_, and _nineteen_ with two /t/s, but _fifteen_, _sixteen_, _seventeen_, and the multiples of ten _twenty_ through _ninety_ with only one.


----------



## shokan

I've only ever heard "sikth" from presenters of documentary programs produced in England, by English presenters.
Notably, recently, Dan Snow, in _D-Day: The Lost Heroes_, said "sikth" every time he mentioned the date of June 6th... which was many times, owing to the show's subject matter. So, apparently, it's the way he always says it.

Another presenter, an English medieval historian, I noticed, also repeatedly used "sikth". She looks to be about the same age as Dan Snow and sounds Londonish, as does he.

<Got to>  say, it sounds pretty junky. Can't think of a better word to describe the way it makes me cringe a little when I hear it. It's enough of an effect in me that it actually seems to detract from the speaker's authority or credentials. I do not hear this mispronunciation anywhere in North America, by the way.  In general, I've always thought of British English to sound more precise, more refined and to have a larger amount of words in common usage than English-speakers in North America. "Sikth" is an anomaly, but an embarrassing, glaring one. At least, it is for me when I hear it.

<< A different topic. >>

Seems having the 's' sound cozied up to the 'k' sound makes some people  on both sides of the Atlantic seek an easier solution for their tongue than the proper pronunciation requires.


----------



## Chasint

Forero said:


> ...I even pronounce _thirteen_, _fourteen_, and _nineteen_ with two /t/s, but _fifteen_, _sixteen_, _seventeen_, and the multiples of ten _twenty_ through _ninety_ with only one.


I can't even imagine how or why you would put an extra "t" in those words.   "fourt-teen"???


----------



## shokan

Biffo said:


> I can't even imagine how or why you would put an extra "t" in those words.   "fourt-teen"???


That's <got to> be a one individual only quirk of pronunciation. Never, ever heard anything like that before. I've heard some extra vowels occasionally from people both in N. America and Britain, though. Chim-in-ee and cock-a-roach are ones like that which are common.



shokan said:


> That's <got to> be a one individual only quirk of pronunciation. Never, ever heard anything like that before. I've heard some extra vowels occasionally from people both in N. America and Britain, though. Chim-in-ee and cock-a-roach are ones like that which are common.


Adding to what I just said, come to think of it, English words that have a little mouth-challenge simply were made easier over time with an addition or deletion of a vowel or consonant. It then ran in families generation to generation, and in regions.


----------



## frenchifried

My English is UK but I agree with GreenWhiteBlue - you need the the 's' sound - 'x' in sixth is a soft consonant.


----------



## Chasint

frenchifried said:


> My English is UK but I agree with GreenWhiteBlue - you need the the 's' sound - 'x' in sixth is a soft consonant.


I hope you don't mean you say it sisth


----------



## frenchifried

@ Biffo  No but but sixth is spelt/spelled with an x so your argument falls away - phonetically, x in sixth is a 'k' sound softened with an 's' sound; I hold my ground. (grownd)


----------



## Forero

Biffo said:


> I can't even imagine how or why you would put an extra "t" in those words.


By analogy? And it helps to distinguish 13 and  14 from 30 and 40.

I assure you it is not just me, but I don't know how large the dialect region for it is.





> "fourt-teen"???


Yes, that is the way it sounds, just as _eighteen_ sounds like "eight-teen".


----------



## natkretep

Forero said:


> I assure you it is not just me, but I don't know how large the dialect region for it is.Yes, that is the way it sounds, just as _eighteen_ sounds like "eight-teen".


I've heard this too - and when I've heard it there's a glottal stop put before /t/, so this gives the impression of a double t.


----------



## Einstein

Forero said:


> I pronounce _eighteen_ as if it were "eight-teen" with two /t/s. The first is unreleased, as in _eights_, and the other is the aspirated /t/ in _-teen_ just like the one in _ten_. I have heard BrE speakers pronounce _eighteen_ like "ay-teen" with only one /t/, at the beginning of _-teen_, leaving the first syllable open.
> 
> I even pronounce _thirteen_, _fourteen_, and _nineteen_ with two /t/s, but _fifteen_, _sixteen_, _seventeen_, and the multiples of ten _twenty_ through _ninety_ with only one.


Yes, I've often noticed this AmE BrE difference. I've also heard "eight-teen" from Irish people, mainly from the north.


----------



## Loob

I've heard Forero's _eight-teen_ etc, too.  From my memory of the two years I spent in Ottawa, I'm pretty sure it was the standard pronunciation there.

I also feel as though I've heard it closer to home - but I don't know where.  I'll have to listen out!


----------



## shokan

Loob said:


> I've heard Forero's _eight-teen_ etc, too.  From my memory of the two years I spent in Ottawa, I'm pretty sure it was the standard pronunciation there.
> 
> I also feel as though I've heard it closer to home - but I don't know where.  I'll have to listen out!


Canada? I'm close to there. Never have heard this.


----------



## sound shift

Loob said:


> I've heard Forero's _eight-teen_ etc, too.  From my memory of the two years I spent in Ottawa, I'm pretty sure it was the standard pronunciation there.
> 
> I also feel as though I've heard it closer to home - but I don't know where.  I'll have to listen out!


Most people in Derby say _eight-teen _and _eight-ty_. I believe the same goes for much of the English Midlands and the North of England.


----------



## Loob

sound shift said:


> Most people in Derby say _eight-teen _and _eight-ty_. I believe the same goes for much of the English Midlands and the North of England.


Thanks, sound shift - it's Derby I'm thinking of then (again!)


----------



## MichaelTTurner

As a non British National you may be forgiven for your mispronunciation of the word sixth. The x in the word should be clearly pronounced just the same as you would in
Saxophone. Maximum or Income Tax etc. Having said this there are a number of English Native Speakers who deliberately mispronounce the words " Sixth " and or Six " as  " SICK " This is a most annoying phenomenon. << Not needed. >>


----------



## MichaelTTurner

Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Very few people pronounce the word as sicth, that is clearly a mispronunciation which most good English speakers would
balk at. If you look closely at the word you will notice that there is an X in the middle which needs to be pronounced. for example one would not pronounce the word
SAXOPHONE as SACOPHONE now would one.


----------



## Einstein

MichaelTTurner said:


> Sorry but that is complete nonsense. Very few people pronounce the word as sicth, that is clearly a mispronunciation which most good English speakers would
> balk at. If you look closely at the word you will notice that there is an X in the middle which needs to be pronounced. for example one would not pronounce the word SAXOPHONE as SACOPHONE now would one.


We are not discussing the pronunciation of the "x" in general but the way it's pronounced when followed by "th", as in the word "sixth". As I said in an earlier post, much also depends on whether the word that follows begins with a vowel or a consonant. I would probably simplify the consonants in "the si*xth str*ipe", for example.
I personally don't say "sikth", but there are plenty who do. I would not "balk" at what you say is "clearly a mispronunciation". We should also avoid judgemental definitions such as "good English speakers".


----------



## JamesM

<< Deletion. >>

_Some_ would say that the Scottish habit of pronouncing "pull" and "pool" identically is "speaking the language badly, sloppy and unacceptable".  Others would say that people pronounce English differently depending on region, dialect and cultural background.


----------



## velisarius

People don't all pronounce words in the same way - who would have thought it?
Some people are distressed by this; others have learned to live with it.
This forum aims to discuss language questions "in a respectful, helpful and cordial manner".


​This thread is closed -velisarius, moderator.


----------

