# English jaw & Persian jaw "chew"



## CyrusSH

Do they relate to each other?


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## Stoggler

What did you find when you looked them up in etymological dictionaries?  Does existing research suggest that they are related? ref: rule 4


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## CyrusSH

Stoggler said:


> What did you find when you looked them up in etymological dictionaries?  Does existing research suggest that they are related? ref: rule 4



According to etymonline: jaw | Origin and meaning of jaw by Online Etymology Dictionary

late 14c., jowe, joue, "the bones of the mouth," "A word of difficult etymology" [OED]. Probably from Old French joue "cheek," originally jode, from Gallo-Romance *gauta or directly from Gaulish *gabata, but there are phonetic problems; or perhaps a variant of Germanic words related to chew (v.);

As you see it says nothing about Persian _jaw_.


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## Stoggler

That's just one dictionary.  You've not looked in any Persian etymological dictionaries?


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## berndf

CyrusSH said:


> A word of difficult etymology


For all I know this is the answer to your question.


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## CyrusSH

Stoggler said:


> That's just one dictionary.  You've not looked in any Persian etymological dictionaries?



"Etymological Dictionary of the Iranian Verb, page 226" talks about the Persian verb but it also doesn't mention English _jaw_, of course it says it is cognate with English _chew_ but not clear why PIE *_ǵ_ has been changed to _j_ in Persian.


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## berndf

CyrusSH said:


> "Etymological Dictionary of the Iranian Verb, page 226" talks about the Persian verb but it also doesn't mention English _jaw_, of course it says it is cognate with English _chew_ but not clear why PIE *_ǵ_ has been changed to _j_ in Persian.


Can you explain why you are asking about the about English _jaw_ and not about the verb _chew_? That would be a much more meaningful question when looking for cognates of the Persian verbal stem _ja*v*-_.


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## CyrusSH

berndf said:


> Can you explain why you are asking about the about English _jaw_ and not about the verb _chew_? That would be a much more meaningful question when looking for cognates of the Persian verbal stem _ja*v*-_.



Because I almost knew it, however sound changes don't seem to be clear, Persian _j_ is usually from an original _y_ sound, I don't know about English but for example both Persian _jehud_ and English _jew_ are from Hebrew _y'hudí_.


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## berndf

CyrusSH said:


> Because I almost knew it, however sound changes don't seem to be clear, Persian _j_ is usually from an original _y_ sound, I don't know about English but for example both Persian _jehud_ and English _jew_ are from Hebrew _y'hudí_.


So what's your *real* question? Is it this one: "How could PIE *_ǵ_ produce _j_ in English _jaw_, provided it were from such a root?" ?


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## CyrusSH

berndf said:


> So what's your *real* question? Is it this one: "How could PIE *_ǵ_ produce _j_ in English _jaw_, provided it were from such a root?" ?



First I want to know about the origin of _j_ (voiced postalveolar affricate) in English, it certainty didn't exist in proto-Germanic.


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## berndf

CyrusSH said:


> First I want to know about the origin of _j_ (voiced postalveolar affricate) in English, it certainty didn't exist in proto-Germanic.


French.


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## CyrusSH

berndf said:


> French.



And what is the origin of French sound? For example isn't English _juvenile_ directly from Latin? Of course there was no _j_ in Latin too.


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## berndf

Palatalised _g, _as in all Romance languages, into which Latin /j/ merged.


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## CyrusSH

The strange thing is that we see the same process about the Persian word, whereas PIE *_ǵ_ is expected to be changed to _d_ in Persian (_z_ in Avestan). Of course I hope fdb doesn't say that this word has also Turkic origin!


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## Treaty

CyrusSH said:


> "Etymological Dictionary of the Iranian Verb, page *226*" talks about the Persian verb but it also doesn't mention English _jaw_, of course it says it is cognate with English _chew_ but not clear why PIE *_ǵ_ has been changed to _j_ in Persian.


The answer to this question may be written on the same page. It is probably because of the cluster *_ǵiV._


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## berndf

Treaty said:


> The answer to this question may be written on the same page. It is probably because of the cluster *_ǵiV._


From the quoted location:


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