# Old Church Slavonic: Family



## Mac_Linguist1

Could someone help me find the word for "family" in (Old) Church Slavonic?

Thank you.


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## dudasd

While in religious texts (Bible at the first place) words _родъ_ (_родь_) and _родьство_ (_родство_)* are used for "family" (probably because of different structure of the Biblical families), from more profane writings word _породица _seem to be very common in middle ages: _поповы, колици се ωбрА**таю (сь) своими породицами_ (source of the quotation: *Ђуро Даничић, Рјечник*; the excerpt taken from _Monumenta Serbica spectanti historiam Serbiae Bosnae Ragusii edidit Fr. Miklosich, Wien 1858_).
 
*words in brackets are newer forms
** A stands for "yat"


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## Mac_Linguist1

Thank you, dudasd.

Where does the Russian word _семейство/семя_ come from? Is it a loanword from Russian in Bulgarian?


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## dudasd

_Seme* _is a common Slavic word, and the main meanings are: 1) seed, grains; 2) sperm; 3) lineage, progeny, family (in wider context), not only in Russian. For example, in Serbian translation of Bible you will find:

_Koji se bojite Gospoda, hvalite Ga. Sve *sjeme* Jakovljevo! Poštuj Ga. Boj Ga se, sve *sjeme* Izrailjevo!_

 
But if the form (not the meaning! - meaning is Panslavic) of _семейство/семя_ is a loanword in Bulgarian, I can't say; you'll have to wait for the native speakers to give their opinion.

*I have a trouble with fonts; the proper writing in Old Slavonic would be something like "sAmę" (compare with Latin _semen_ and its meanings), which became _семя_ in Russion. On the other hand, the oldest Church Slavonic translations of Bible don't mention the word _семейство_, so I can only guess that it's of a newer date, or that it was reserved for common people, not for Biblical texts.


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## Christo Tamarin

dudasd said:


> ..
> But if the form (not the meaning! - meaning is Panslavic) of _семейство/семя_ is a loanword in Bulgarian, I can't say; you'll have to wait for the native speakers to give their opinion.


 
Please distinguish two Russian words: *семя* (meaning *seed*) and *семья* (meaning *family*). According to Vassmer, they are not mutually related. The former is related to the Latin *semen* (seed) while the latter is related to the English *home*. In Russian, *семья *and *семейство* are related and both mean *family*.



In modern *Bulgarian*:

*семе *means seed and is not a loanword. It can be met in biblical texts at all the places where the English word seed can be met.
*семейство* means *family *and is a loanword from Russian (19th century).
*семья *(also meaning family in Russian) does not exist.
traditional words meaning *family* are *челяд*, *род*, *рода*, *дом*, *джинс*.


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## dudasd

Christo Tamarin said:


> Please distinguish two Russian words: *семя* (meaning *seed*) and *семья* (meaning *family*).


 
Mac_Linguist1 asked for _семя_. With all the respect for Vassmer, word _seme _(_семя_) seem to be Panslavic and old enough to be not a loanword from Latin; most likely it's just from the same root. According to the sources I have at hand, the Old Slavonic form was the same in both meanings (though there could be sources with different writings, I don't exclude that possibility). Also, the primary meaning of _seme _(_семья_) was *offspring *and only later it widened to the meaning of *family*, so we have a good base to believe that it was one word.


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## Christo Tamarin

dudasd said:


> Christo Tamarin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please distinguish two Russian words: *семя* (meaning *seed*) and *семья* (meaning *family*).
> 
> 
> 
> Mac_Linguist1 asked for _семя_. With all the respect for Vassmer, word _seme _(_семя_) seem to be Panslavic and old enough to be not a loanword from Latin; most likely it's just from the same root. According to the sources I have at hand, the Old Slavonic form was the same in both meanings (though there could be sources with different writings, I don't exclude that possibility).
> 
> Also, the primary meaning of _seme _(_семья_) was *offspring *and only later it widened to the meaning of *family*, so we have a good base to believe that it was one word.
Click to expand...

 
Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Of course, Russian *семя* (meaning *seed*) is not a loanword from Latin; it is just a cognate to the Latin *semen*, rather. I do not think that the Old Slavonic form _сѣмѧ_ had a meaning beyond the Greek *σπέρμα*, Latin *semen*, English *seed*.

Here is the question of Mac_Linguist1:


Mac_Linguist1 said:


> Where does the Russian word _семейство/семя_ come from? Is it a loanword from Russian in Bulgarian?


 
Vassmer claims that the Russian words _*семья* _(and therefore _*семейство*_) are cognates to the English *home*. These Russian words both mean *family *and are innovations - they appeared during the specific developement of Russian. Vassmer does not provide cognates of the Russian _*семья* _in the other Slavic languages. The Bulgarian *семейство *is a loanword from Russian. Vassmer provides old Russian words *с**ѣмъ* (meaning _persona_) and *с**ѣминъ *(meaning _slave_) which are related to _*семья* _and *семейство. *By the way, the etymology of the English *home* also refers to rhe Russian _*семья* _as a cognate.

Thus, there are two Slavic roots in Russian: *семя* (meaning *seed*) and *семья* (meaning *family*) which are not related mutually. What about the Russian word *семейство*? I think it is related to *семья* (meaning *family*) rather than to *семя* (meaning *seed*).


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## dudasd

Christo Tamarin said:


> Vassmer does not provide cognates of the Russian _*семья* _in the other Slavic languages.


 
If you look up there, you will see the quotation I posted. Serbian/Croatian *seme (sjeme)*= 1) brood, progeny, offspring ("porod"); 2) family ("rod", now archaic in this second meaning); so it would be a cognate he overlooked, I guess.


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## Christo Tamarin

dudasd said:


> Christo Tamarin said:
> 
> 
> 
> .. Vassmer does not provide cognates of the Russian _*семья* _in the other Slavic languages.
> 
> 
> 
> If you look up there, you will see the quotation I posted. Serbian/Croatian *seme (sjeme)*= 1) brood, progeny, offspring ("porod"); 2) family ("rod", now archaic in this second meaning); so it would be a cognate he overlooked, I guess.
Click to expand...

I would not agree. Serbian /Croatian *seme (sjeme)* and modern Bulgarian *семе* are cognates to Russian *семя* (meaning *seed*). They come from Old Slavic _сѣмѧ _and thus they are also cognates to Latin *semen *and not to English *home*.

In the biblical text you provided some posts above, Serbian/Croatian *seme (sjeme)* was used in a place where we meet *σπέρμα* in Greek, *semen *in Latin, *seed* in English.


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## Mac_Linguist1

dudasd said:


> Mac_Linguist1 asked for _семя_.



My apologies, I did mean _семья._


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