# Hindi/Urdu: khaalaa



## panjabigator

Can anyone tell me the significance of the term "khaalaa?"  In south asia, this term is used for your mothers sister.  Non muslims say the word "maasiii" (or something similar depending on language).  Im just curious as to why that term is used an not mausii/maasi/maushi.  Im guessing Linguist and Jhorer can give an answer.


----------



## cherine

I don't know any South-Asian language, but your question interested me a lot, because the word khaalaa is the Arabic word (or the word used in Arabic  ) for the mother's sister.
So if you mean to say that only muslims used it, I think I can understand that as there taking it from Arabic.

I'd love to see what the others will say about this


----------



## linguist786

Hi!

I don't agree that non-muslims would say "maasee" - I say it myself!! (and I'm a muslim)
And yes, we use it for calling our mother's sister. We actually call them "Sabera maasee", for example. Your "maasaa" is your maasee's husband. by the way.

I've always thought that the difference between "khaalaa" and "maasee" is the people who use it - us Bharuchis say "maasee" whereas the Surtis (posh gits!) and Pakistanis say "khaalaa" This is probably not true now.

panjabigator: what made you think only non-muslims use "maasee"?

And cherine - interesting to see khaalaa comes from Arabic - thanks


----------



## panjabigator

Sorry linguist, I didnt mean to label. All the Punjabi muslims I know say Khala (خالا) and in my Teach Yourself Bengali book, khala is distinguished as being a strictly muslim term where as maasi (in whatever language...I think in Bangla it was maushii) was used by Hindu's. I assumed (making an ass out of you and me) that khaalaa was the universal term for maternal aunt for muslims and thus all Indian muslims in whatever language probably use it. Its interesting to me that you dont linguist, but I also remember that from the days of the week discussion that you dont use "piir" for monday, "jumeraat" for thursday, "jumaa" for friday, or "hafta" for saturday. I was just curious to why that word is used in preference over the Indic term...and until now I thought it was for an Islamic reason...maybe something to do with familiar terms...I dont know.  Thanks for the response.


----------



## linguist786

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Sorry linguist, I didnt mean to label.


 Oh no - lol it sounded as though I was offended, but I wasn't! Anyway, doesn't matter. No offence taken 


			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> All the Punjabi muslims I know say Khala (خالا) and in my Teach Yourself Bengali book, khala is distinguished as being a strictly muslim term where as maasi (in whatever language...I think in Bangla it was maushii) was used by Hindu's.


hmmm.. you've made me really think now. Is maasee an Gujarati word? I think I might try and find this out.





			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> I assumed (making an ass out of you and me) that khaalaa was the universal term for maternal aunt for muslims and thus all Indian muslims in whatever language probably use it.


It's very logical, your thinking! To be honest, if I was talking to my family and said "khaalaa", they'd think there's something wrong with me lol! I'm not saying it's not used in Gujarati - it definitely is. I think it's just not used in Bharuchi Gujarati (I've not heard any Bharuchi's use it anyway, only Surtis, and Suddhar Gujjis).





			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> I also remember that from the days of the week discussion that you dont use "piir" for monday, "jumeraat" for thursday, "jumaa" for friday, or "hafta" for saturday.


Oh God - I totally forgot we use "jumeraat" for Thursday!! Of course we do. We actually say that one more than "Guruwaar"! Silly me. 





			
				panjabigator said:
			
		

> I was just curious to why that word is used in preference over the Indic term...and until now I thought it was for an Islamic reason...maybe something to do with familiar terms...I dont know. Thanks for the response.


hmmm.. I'm interested too now! I might do some research to find out!


----------



## MarcB

Aunt
 
Arabic *خالَة**, عَمَّة*

*Urdu/Hindi*ﻩﻠﺎﺨ , , 

Turkish *teyze; hala; yenge.*

Farsi ﻭﻤﻋ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻰﻴﺍﺩ ﻥﺯ ‘ﻩﻠﺎﺨ ‘ﻩﻤﻋ


----------



## macta123

Hi all,

 Khaala is the preferable term from Urdu (as not linked with Islam or anything). Yes, it has its orgins from Arabic. And no, all Muslims in India don't call their aunts(mother's sister) as Khalla. This is only popular among Urdu speaking communities (as far in case of South-Asia). In Kerala the muslims don't call their Aunt " Khalla O Khalla jaan". So it is basically a Arabic/Urdu word and nothing else.


----------



## Tisia

cherine said:
			
		

> .... the word khaalaa is the Arabic word (or the word used in Arabic  ) for the mother's sister.
> ......


 
In Persian as well *Khala*(h) is used to address someone's mother's sister and it means aunt on mother's side.

Tisia


----------



## Jhorer Brishti

panjabigator said:
			
		

> Sorry linguist, I didnt mean to label. All the Punjabi muslims I know say Khala (خالا) and in my Teach Yourself Bengali book, khala is distinguished as being a strictly muslim term where as maasi (in whatever language...I think in Bangla it was maushii) was used by Hindu's. I assumed (making an ass out of you and me) that khaalaa was the universal term for maternal aunt for muslims and thus all Indian muslims in whatever language probably use it. Its interesting to me that you dont linguist, but I also remember that from the days of the week discussion that you dont use "piir" for monday, "jumeraat" for thursday, "jumaa" for friday, or "hafta" for saturday. I was just curious to why that word is used in preference over the Indic term...and until now I thought it was for an Islamic reason...maybe something to do with familiar terms...I dont know. Thanks for the response.


 
Hi. Khalaa,Phupu,naanaa,naani,etc. are also used by muslims in Bangladesh. Hindus still use the bengali words "Maashi, Thaakurmaa, Pishi,etc.. I'm led to believe that the use of arabo-persian names for referring to family members may have been the result of the Pakistani presence in Bangladesh before the actual independence. The days of the week in bengali still use Sanskrit Planet/Gods names.. and not those very strange words of Urdu.. What's interesting about the days of the week in Bengali and other Indic languages is that they correspond exactly to the western names(and planets). This is because the Western(Portuguese) system seemed much more efficient to Akbar and other Moghul rulers compared to the very lengthy and complicated lunar calender used before(where every day of every month had a different name).


----------



## Bienvenidos

Tisia said:
			
		

> In Persian as well *Khala*(h) is used to address someone's mother's sister and it means aunt on mother's side.
> 
> Tisia



 Yes *khala(h) - *mom's sister, your aunt
*mahmah - *mom's brother, your uncle
*umuh - *dad's sister, your aunt
*cahcah *- dad's brother, your uncle

Hopefully my attempt at transliterating will suffice. 

*Bien*


----------



## panjabigator

Can you write it in the Arabic script?


----------



## linguist786

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Yes *khala(h) - *mom's sister, your aunt
> *mahmah - *mom's brother, your uncle
> *umuh - *dad's sister, your aunt
> *cahcah *- dad's brother, your uncle
> 
> Hopefully my attempt at transliterating will suffice.
> 
> *Bien*


oh wow.. mahmah and cahcah is exactly the same in Gujarati! (pronounced "maamaa" and "kaakaa").
kaka is only used for your dad's _younger_ brother though. For your dad's _older_ brother, we use "motabaa" 
We don't use "umuh" though (for dad's sister). That would be foi ("foy"). I know in Urdu/Punjabi/Hindi, they say "fufee"


----------



## panjabigator

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Yes *khala(h) - *mom's sister, your aunt
> *mahmah - *mom's brother, your uncle
> *umuh - *dad's sister, your aunt
> *cahcah *- dad's brother, your uncle
> 
> Hopefully my attempt at transliterating will suffice.
> 
> *Bien*



Khala- maasi(P), mausii(H) (husband is maaser)
mahmah- maamaa(P/H) wife is called maamii
umah- buaa (P), phuuphii (H), husband is fuffer (P), phuupher (H)
cahcah- chaachaa (P/H), wife is chaachii(P/H)


----------



## panjabigator

For dads older brother we say "thhaayaa" in Panjabi, and "thaaoo" in Hindi.


----------



## Tisia

Bienvenidos said:
			
		

> Yes *khala(h) - *mom's sister, your aunt
> *mahmah - *mom's brother, your uncle
> *umuh - *dad's sister, your aunt
> *cahcah *- dad's brother, your uncle
> 
> Hopefully my attempt at transliterating will suffice.
> 
> *Bien*


Here are again the differences with Persian:
*Da'i - *mom's brother/uncle
*ame(h) - *dad's sister/aunt
*amu *- dad's brother/uncle

Best regards
Tisia


----------



## linguist786

What about "fufee", panjabigator? Was I right about that?


----------



## panjabigator

In Punjabi, we say bhuaa for your father's sister...it will probably sound like 
"puaa" with the tone and all.  In Urdu, the word is buaa, with no aspiration.   In Hindi they say phuphee (either with a Ph or an F depending on region).


----------



## panjabigator

As it is, I dont pronounce my ph's....everything is an F for me.


----------



## panjabigator

panjabigator said:


> In Punjabi, we say bhuaa for your father's sister...it will probably sound like
> "puaa" with the tone and all.  In Urdu, the word is buaa, with no aspiration.   In Hindi they say phuphee (either with a Ph or an F depending on region).



I realize now looking back on this thread that <buaa> means something entirely different in Urdu than it does in Panjabi.  For Panjabi, it refers to your dad's sister.  In Urdu I think they use it for servents.  Someone can correct me if I'm wrong.

Looking back two years ago, I see a veritable Panjabi influence in my Hindi.  Forgive my errors and lets get some more input in this thread.


----------



## BP.

Both _buaa_ and _maasi_ are used for servants, the rationale being maintaining the respect as a person for them.


----------



## Alex Iguaran

I'm from Azerbaijan originally and there we have borrowed extensively from Arabic and "khala" is one of those words which we use for mother's sister. I guess it has to do with the Arabic conquest of most of today's Muslim countries centuries ago, all of which borrowed many words from that language.


----------



## panjabigator

But it just seems odd that this particular word is found in so many of them.  I mean, why not sister or brother or any of the other familiar relations (Khala's husband, for instance).


----------



## BP.

PG, at least in Muslim societies your mother's sister/s is/are your closest [elder] [female] relatives. A second mum if you wish.

BTW people all over Central Asia (at least) call any elder women _khaala_ [+ jaan/ji etc] as an appellation of respect.


----------



## Machlii5

Here is another request for clarification of relationship terms. 
While browsing a Hindi dictionary I came across the following terms:

ख़ाला  khaalaa  aunt (mother's sister)
ख़ालू  khaaluu  uncle (mother's sister's husband) 
ख़ालाज़ाद बहिन  khaalaazaad bahin- Cousin (mother's sister's daughter)
ख़ालाज़ाद भाई   khaalaazaad bhaaii - Cousin (mother's sister's son)
The initial ख़  would hint at Perso-Arabic origin, I suppose.
So far I had only learned these terms:
मौसी  /  मौसा  /  मौसेरी बहिन  /  मौसेरा भाई
In a list of relationship terms I found these were marked as Hindu/Sikh, and “xala“ as Muslim.
Could you please tell me if the distinction is rather made according to religion or rather according to area and language? 
Thank you for answering!

I just noticed that in the thread “while the cat's away...“ akak mentions the phrase “khala ka ghar, which denotes a place you can get away with stuff you normally couldn't“ - does that mean that traditionally maternal aunts are expected to spoil their nieces and nephews? 
B.t.w. what are the terms of “niece“ and “nephew“ in relation to “khala“?


----------



## Koozagar

I think 'xala' is considered Muslim because it does come Arabic. 
Khala ka ghar is definitely the place where you get spoiled. Alot!

Terms for nephew and niece would be 'bhanja' and 'bhanji'


----------



## panjabigator

> Could you please tell me if the distinction is rather made according to religion or rather according to area and language?


I hate the sort of sweeping statements people make about X being Urdu and Y being Hindi.  Still, I've never seen Hindi or Urdu text books include the other set of words.  I won't make a religious statement but just generalize about language: Hindi uses _mausii_ and Urdu uses _khala_.  Having said that, I'm sure you'll find a bunch of speakers who use either word and don't give a damn to what prescriptivist kinship nomenclature says.  



> I think 'xala' is considered Muslim because it does come Arabic.


Koozagar bhai, I know you already know this, but just because something comes from Arabic doesn't make it Muslim 

BP does provide one suggestion:


> PG, at least in Muslim societies your mother's sister/s is/are your  closest [elder] [female] relatives. A second mum if you wish.


Perhaps the word was imported as a way to distinguish the a particularly important kinship relation?  Kinship terms are quite confusing and convoluted - I'm sure there is a scholarly paper out there discussing _khala_ in North Indian languages.


----------



## Koozagar

panjabigator said:


> Koozagar bhai, I know you already know this, but just because something comes from Arabic doesn't make it Muslim



I was trying to avoid that discussion so I took the question as is and commented on it. I completely agree with you. In fact, I would like to say that 'khaala' may come from Arabic, and hence many may consider it a Muslim word used in Muslim families; in reality, to ascribe it's use to a certain community is a most grotesque exercise in polarizing language along communal lines.I love my 'khalas' and I think I can own the word as 'Hindustani', regardless of where it came from.


----------



## panjabigator

I was told by someone a while ago that some Muslim Punjabis also say _māsī_.  Can anyone confirm that?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> I was told by someone a while ago that some Muslim Punjabis also say _māsī_.  Can anyone confirm that?



All the ones I know all say *maasii*, and *khaalaa* is considered an Urdu word.


----------



## panjabigator

How about in city Punjabi, where Urdu and Punjabi are spoken in diglossia and where people speak a more Urdu-influenced Punjabi?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> How about in city Punjabi, where Urdu and Punjabi are spoken in diglossia and where people speak a more Urdu-influenced Punjabi?



To my knowledge, there is only one such 'city Punjabi' speaking city and that is Lahore. Other cities are overwhelmingly Punjabi speaking.

Even in Lahore, only rich and 'educated' people would use the Urdu word in Punjabi.... Therefore, I'd pretty much say that khaalaa is not used in PK Punjabi... Let's wait for other opinions like Koozagar saahab's for instance.


----------



## Koozagar

Well here is what I would say:
"I call all my maternal aunts 'khala'. my parents also call their maternal aunts 'khala'. My father's family comes from a small village near Vazirabad and my Nana came to Lahore from Hafizabad, my mother and her siblings were born in Lahore. So I think as in post-partition West Punjab, language has continued its integration into a religious-centric nationalism, words like 'khala' have replaced the indigenous words like 'maasi'. This is not to say that this replacement process has concluded and 'khalas' have been purged to the point of extinction but, that the general direction of Pakistani Punjabi is towards 'khala' and away from 'maasi'.


----------



## lcfatima

Interesting that maasi and bua are kept as terms for domestic servants, as mentioned by BP earlier. In common parlance, I have heard 'maasi' used like this: X is dressed like a maasi," or "... wearing her dupatta like a maasi."

In English, my inlaws say things like "Tell the bua to..." or "The bua is coming back from her day off." 

Long ago BP also mentioned the children's show character Maasi Musiibat.

My husband says "villagers (Punjabi) say maasi instead of khaala."


----------



## panjabigator

Very interesting.  I wonder where this shift came from.


----------



## Koozagar

lcfatima said:


> Interesting that maasi and bua are kept as terms for domestic servants, as mentioned by BP earlier. In common parlance, I have heard 'maasi' used like this: X is dressed like a maasi," or "... wearing her dupatta like a maasi."
> 
> In English, my inlaws say things like "Tell the bua to..." or "The bua is coming back from her day off."
> 
> Long ago BP also mentioned the children's show character Maasi Musiibat.
> 
> My husband says "villagers (Punjabi) say maasi instead of khaala."




That is absolutely true. I don't know how the maids became 'maasis' and 'buaas'


----------



## Faylasoof

Koozagar said:


> That is absolutely true. I don't know how the maids became 'maasis' and 'buaas'



I can't say for Punjab but in UP (esp. Luckhnow) addressing your _xidmat guzaar_s  as xaalah / xaaluu / chachaa / chachii / naanaa / naanii was not unsual. 

We (me and my siblings) grew up calling our _xidmat gaars _by these titles as a mark of courtesy & respect.


----------



## Machlii5

BelligerentPacifist said:


> PG, at least in Muslim societies your mother's sister/s is/are your closest [elder] [female] relatives. A second mum if you wish.


This remark from the old part of this thread about khaalaa is very interesting and makes me wonder if and in what way the social implications of the words khaalaa and mausii might differ. 
From what I've read, according to traditon, a Hindu bride is handed over to her husband's family and can meet her birth family only on rare occasions. So I'd guess that Hindu children couldn't develop the same kind of affective link with their mother's sister(s) as Muslim children would, and vice versa. 
I wonder if in spite of their being technically the same (= mother's sister), the words khaalaa and mausii might have a different kind of “flavour“.
Or am I imagining things?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Machlii5 said:


> From what I've read, according to traditon, a Hindu bride is handed over to her husband's family and can meet her birth family only on rare occasions.



Interesting remark about the position of the *mausii* in Hindu society. I was not aware of that.



Machlii5 said:


> So I'd guess that Hindu children couldn't develop the same  kind of affective link with their mother's sister(s) as Muslim children  would, and vice versa.
> I wonder if in spite of their being technically the same (= mother's  sister), the words khaalaa and mausii might have a different kind of  “flavour“.
> Or am I imagining things?



You must be right then. Except when _*maasii*_ is used by Punjabi Muslims, of course.


----------



## panjabigator

Very interesting, Machli.  I wonder if anyone has done any work on kinship terminology in North India. _ Khala_ is certainly an excellent word to analyze, as it's been exported to so many languages.  What flavor might _khala_ suggest as opposed to _mausi_?  Hmmm...

I'm tempted to rely on religious nationalism, but such a reading is über reductionist and it has to be more than that, no?

Can we safely assume that Khala was always the term used in Urdu(s) around the subcontinent?  What of Deccani?

Also, to respond to BP:  a Hindi/Urdu instructor once informed me that mausi meant "like mother," i.e. "ma(u) sii" or "ma jaisi".  It seemed like a plausible assertion at the time and your comment supports it.


----------



## lcfatima

Just very generally speaking, in traditionally structured Hindu and Muslim North Indian and Pakistani families, the patriarchal views on whom children belong to and on controlling a bride's movements and visits are essentially the same. I don't think the maasi/khaala thing is some indication of Muslim closeness to the maternal family.  Also, I think earlier in the post someone reminded us that Urdu is most definitely not the only mother tongue of Pakistani or Indian Muslims, nor do all Hindus speak a language in which the term for maternal aunt would be similar to maasi.


----------



## BP.

Machlii5 said:


> This remark from the old part of this thread about khaalaa is very interesting and makes me wonder if and in what way the social implications of the words khaalaa and mausii might differ.
> From what I've read, according to traditon, a Hindu bride is handed over to her husband's family and can meet her birth family only on rare occasions. So I'd guess that Hindu children couldn't develop the same kind of affective link with their mother's sister(s) as Muslim children would, and vice versa.
> I wonder if in spite of their being technically the same (= mother's sister), the words khaalaa and mausii might have a different kind of “flavour“.
> Or am I imagining things?



I was talking in legal/shar3ii terms. And I'm not sure the common _village_ maternal aunt and her nieces/nephews are very aware of this, although it is common knowledge where I live. So we can't be sure if the bonds are stronger or weaker just by looking at peoples' theological preferences, at least not in this blanket sort of way.

Don't feel you're not free to hypothesize though!


----------



## Machlii5

panjabigator said:


> What flavor might _khala_ suggest as opposed to _mausi_?  Hmmm...
> .


“connotation“, if you like. The proverbial khala ka ghar might serve as an example. Or is mausi ka ghar also used in this sense?
But maybe the individual closeness between children and their aunts depends more on the personality of the aunt and the accessibility of the place where she lives than on traditional expectations as to her role?


----------



## Machlii5

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Don't feel you're not free to hypothesize though!


Thank you for this reassurance! I'm aware that as an outsider without any South-Asian background, family links, or friends whom I could ask, I may easily develop “theories“ that have nothing to do with reality, and I'm very grateful to this forum for doing my reality-checks.


----------



## Qureshpor

*We all agree that the word "Khaalah" (mother's sister) is of Arabic origins. Punjabi speakers, invariably, would use "maasii". However, where one is "forced" to display one's "tahziib", it would come in the form of 'Khaalah" where poor "maasii" would be considered "rustic" and "backward" at the very least.

And PG Sahib, please stop saying everything with an F. The word is "phupphii" and not "fuffii"!*


----------

