# Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?



## Focux

Hola de nuevo, quisiera saber si alguien me podría decir que papel desempeñaría Will en esta oración: Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?


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## Bonn

'Will' aqui es un verbo modalizador deóntico de voluntad  

Lo que Eminem quiere decir es: Asique ¿Podría (querría) el verdadero Slim Shady por favor ponerse de pie?

(estoy pensándolo en el contexto de la rima, donde habla de otros Slim Shadies falsos :$ )

Viel Spass!


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## bunyip

Buena respuesta bonn. 
Como el frase esta es una interrogación empieza con un modal o auxiliar, igual que cualquier otra pregunta (Do you do yoga? donde el primer do no hace más que denotar una pregunta y el segundo es el verbo principal, hacer)
en el caso de will, pregunta por futura intención como en
Will you come to the party tomorrow?
pero en este contexto no es literal la pregunta (que intención tienes) sino mas idiomático, (haz el favor de)
otros ejemplos de will usado en este contexto
Will the guests please make their way to the dining room?
Will you please explain what you mean?
Will you get out of my chair?
Como puede ver se usa en segunda persona y como una petición.  Es una de esas formas educadas que tienen los ingleses de obligarte a hacer algo sin usar el imperativo.


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## Focux

Entendido. Thanks so much for ur helps


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## Focux

Will you be part of my club? Esa oración está bien?


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## Perrito

Sí, está bien, Focux.


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## Focux

Para concluir entonces Will se usa cuando es algo como a la voluntad del otro hablante? y que diferencia tendría usar could que usar will?


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## Perrito

Could = poder  ¿Puedes dármelo?  Could/Can you give it to me?  
Will = futuro.  ¿Comerás la pizza?  Will you eat the pizza?  

Recomiendo que te compres un buen libro de gramática inglesa.


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## Focux

io sé que Will se usa para futuro pero arriba acavan de decir que tambien significa Querrían


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## Bonn

Ambos son modales deonticos. En un nivel inicial, se pueden usar más o menos intercambiablemente.

Could se refiere más a la capacidad del oyente de hacer algo (capacidad de O de hacer X)
Will se refiere más a la voluntad del oyente de hacer algo (voluntad de O de hacer X)

Si querés más información, te puedo copiar un excelente cuadro de verbos modales, que no se consigue en ninguna gramática (yo lo copié en una clase de gramáticas comparadas, de un profesor que es un genio) 

Grüsse!


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## bunyip

Could/Would is also more polite than will.  Will is formal but can also suggest that I expect that you do this.  Could or Would leaves it more up to the receptor.


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## Focux

Bonn said:


> Ambos son modales deonticos. En un nivel inicial, se pueden usar más o menos intercambiablemente.
> 
> Could se refiere más a la capacidad del oyente de hacer algo (capacidad de O de hacer X)
> Will se refiere más a la voluntad del oyente de hacer algo (voluntad de O de hacer X)
> 
> Si querés más información, te puedo copiar un excelente cuadro de verbos modales, que no se consigue en ninguna gramática (yo lo copié en una clase de gramáticas comparadas, de un profesor que es un genio)
> 
> Grüsse!


Si pudíeras copiarlo, mucho mejor!

Gracias de antemano.


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## kalamazoo

"will you be part of my club?" is a real question in English. But a statement like "Will the real Slim Shady please stand up" is not a question.  It's an instruction. It doesn't require an answer.  For example, at a lecture,the moderator might say "Will you please hold your questions until the end."  That is an instruction to the listeners,telling them not to ask questions until the end.


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## Focux

but in the song the question at the title plays the role of question right?


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## kalamazoo

No, I think it's an instruction or a request, not a question.


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## Focux

Thaaanks so much, I was reading again the question, but this time throughly and I finally understand it, I really appreciate your help.


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## Focux

''Will you get out of my way'' would be proper?


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## kalamazoo

It's a proper construction, but it would probably sound rather rude, as though you were talking to a subordinate. This is because "get out of my way" is kind of a rude thing to say.   On the other hand, "Will you {please] hand me that cup" is more okay because just saying 'please hand me that cup' is not very rude.  Sometimes "will" conveys exasperation "Will you please shut up and just listen to me for a change!"  In terms of Slim Shady, it's really almost formulaic and shouldn't be over-interpreted. Suppose you have a game show and three people are each pretending to be Lady Gaga's hairdresser, and the task of the panel is to ask questions and figure out which one is real. At the end the panel votes for "C" as the real hairdresser. Then the moderator says "Will the real hairdresser please stand up!"  This isn't rude or exasperated, it's more like a fixed expression.


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## Focux

ahhh, so it should be more polite right?


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## kalamazoo

"will" in this sense is not always rude, but it could be rather impolite in some situations. I recommend that you not use it. Say "Would you please" instead of "will."  In the Slim Shady case though, it's not impolite.  But if you tell someone "get out of my way" that's not very polite no matter how you say it!  You coud say "Excuse me,could I get through here" or something like that. But don't say "get out of my way" unless you are looking for trouble!


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## Focux

Thanks for the advices. By the way I thought that may is more polite than could, is true?


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## kalamazoo

"advice" is singular, not plural.  For a request asking someone else to do something, you have to use "would" or "could" with "you." (Could you hand me the red book? Would you please hand me the red book?) When you are asking  about yourself in some way "could" is better than "may" although either is possible ("Could/may I have a cookie please?" "May/could I pet your dog?") but "would" doesn't work.


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## Bonn

OK. Aquí va:

MODAL VERBS CHART

MODALITY

+Epistemic: referred to knowledge.
*Logical Necessity: must, can't, have to, ought to, should.
He must be on his way home already.

*Possibility: may, might, could, can.
I may be a little late tonight.

+Deontic: Referred to actions.
*Obligation:
a. Compulsion: must, musn't, have to, shall.
You must not smoke here.
b. Reasonable obligation (advices or suggestions): ought to, should, should better, shouldn't.
You should take an umbrella.
c. Absence of obligation: don't need, don't have to, don't need to, needn't.
You don't need to apologize.

*Prohibition: must not, shall not.
Thou shall not kill.

*Permission: can, may, might, could.
You can leave your luggage here.

*Willingness: will, should, shall, may.
a. Strong volition
b. Weak volition
c. Intention
I will do the dishes later.
Will the real Slim Shady please stand up?  

Note: It is often difficult to classify modal verbs of willingness, that's why I wrote them all together. Hope this was of any help :$ Viele Grüsse!


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## kalamazoo

The chart is impressive,but actually "will" in this usage is not a word of volition.  It is an instruction to someone else (so I think can only be used with "you"). "Will you please stand up" = "please stand up."


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## pops91710

Would or will is all the same. Voice inflection can make either sound rude.


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## kalamazoo

I agree, but neither in this example is really "volition" or even really the future.  It's just a way of asking someone to do something.


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## Bonn

kalamazoo said:


> I agree, but neither in this example is really "volition" or even really the future.  It's just a way of asking someone to do something.



Verzeihung. You're mixing up two things. The chart  is useful only as a semantic guide to modality. It is not even close to be exhaustive. It should be remembered that, in any case, modality largely depends on speaker's choice. But that comes in the field of pragmatics.

Semantically, this is a modal verb of willingness. I'm quite sure about it.

Pragmatically, this is an indirect speech act, where the primary act is for sure a petition for H(earer) to do A(ction), through a secondary speech act of question (or information request). Here comes your 'way of asking someone to  do something'.

And it has some kind of future value, though not much.

Well this is just my opinion, of course.

Umarmung.


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## kalamazoo

Let's get back to the original question.  The poster asked about the function of "will" in "will the real SS please stand up."  In this case, "will" does not have any obvious shades of meaning of volition or intention. It is a way of making a request, regardless of what you call it.  What this sentence "means" is equivalent to  "Please stand up, SS."


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## pops91710

kalamazoo said:


> Let's get back to the original question.  The poster asked about the function of "will" in "will the real SS please stand up."  In this case, "will" does not have any obvious shades of meaning of volition or intention. It is a way of making a request, regardless of what you call it.  What this sentence "means" is equivalent to  "Please stand up, SS."



YES!


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## Bonn

kalamazoo said:


> Let's get back to the original question.  The poster asked about the function of "will" in "will the real SS please stand up."  In this case, "will" does not have any obvious shades of meaning of volition or intention. It is a way of making a request, regardless of what you call it.  What this sentence "means" is equivalent to  "Please stand up, SS."



You obviously do not get my point of 'semantics-pragmatics' distinction. ¬¬ the meaning of the sentence is clear.


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## kalamazoo

Actually I do get the point, but that's not relevant.The meaning of the sentence was not clear to the original poster.


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## Focux

I never had listen ''ought to'' and ''shall'', May you explain me it?


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## donbill

Amigos, por favor, recuerden que "will you" también significa "is it your will?" "is it your desire?". "Will you come to the party tomorrow?" podría ser "¿Vendrás a la fiesta mañana?" o "¿Quieres venir a la fiesta mañana?" El significado--tiempo futuro o expresión de voluntad--depende del contexto. ¿comentarios?


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## Focux

Es usual usar will para expresar voluntad o es mas coloquial usar would?


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## kalamazoo

For "voluntad," "would" does not work. The most likely expression would be something like "Do you want to go to the party tomorrow?"  If I say "Would you come to the party?" it could be a request from me to you or it could be part of a conditional sentence ("If I gave you a thousand dollars, would you come to the party?")

For "tiempo futuro" the most likely expression s is "Are you going to go to the party tomorrow?"


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