# Pardon my French ,  Excuse my French



## Nath0811

*Moderator note:  * We have merged a great number of threads to create this discussion.  Consequently, it is very long.  A quick summary follows for those who are in a hurry:

*What does "Pardon/excuse my French" mean?* 
It is used in English when you have just used or are about to use vulgar, familiar, or otherwise offensive language.  It is an acknowledgement that the words may offend, without being a true apology.

*How does the expression translate? What might we say in French in a similar context?* 
There are many options: _Excusez mon langage, Pardonnez ma grossièreté/franchise, Passez-moi l'expression, etc._ 


This is more a question for your opinion than grammar. 
This expression is very communly used to introduce curse words- and justify them.
Now, if you _are _French and use that sentence (of course the curse words would still be in English), how does it sound? Ridiculous, funny, adequate, doesn't make a difference? I've used that a couple of times, andfeel funny about it - sometimes. 
I would love to hear what you say (Anglos and French!)


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## Aupick

Personally I think it would sound funny - witty kind of funny - given that you're French. OK, so it's not the height of comedy or anything, but it has a nice little ironic twist that should make people smile.


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## emma42

I totally agree with Aupick.  I would say it if I were you!  You cannot avoid the irony because you are, in fact, French!


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## Nath0811

emma42 said:
			
		

> I totally agree with Aupick. I would say it if I were you! You cannot avoid the irony because you are, in fact, French!


 
Good to know - So if I _don't_ want to be ironic,  I should then say "pardon my language" ...


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## emma42

Yes, or slightly less formal - "Excuse my language" or even less formal, but still polite, "Excuse the language".


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## river

How about "excuse my english."


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## emma42

Yes!  But for the benefit of non native speakers - You would use this to apologise for your incorrect English, not for swearing!


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## Starcreator

If you have an accent, it would be ironic. But more importantly, I don't like the phrase - insults the French, in my opinion.


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## zam

'Excuse or Pardon my French' = *'passez-moi l'expression'* in French


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## JazzByChas

I have always thought that "Excuse my French" was rather an odd expression.  I don't think the French curse any more than anyone else in the world.  However, I think Ulysse sort of gives a perfect example of irony, being French, cursing in English, and saying "Excuse my French." 



			
				Ulysse001 said:
			
		

> As a French native, I use the expression "excuse my French" often when swearing in English. Being French, it adds some irony to it when I say this, and I never interpreted it as insulting.
> 
> From what I gather, "excuse my French" is indeed ironical, French might be perceived by the Anglo-Saxons as some kind of elaborated language and the irony lies in the opposition of this expression and the rude language used. I see no harm in this.
> 
> If I am wrong, and indeed "excuse my French" is used because the Anglo-Saxons consider the French as a rude language, I would take it differently. But this would surprise me much.


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## E-J

I would say I've heard _Pardon my French _much more often than _Excuse my French._

One theory I've come across is that this originated in the late 19th century, when highly educated people would switch to speaking in French when they wanted to express anything less than genteel. One imagines this must have softened the impact on the listener somewhat, but presumably it also meant that the speaker wouldn't appear coarse to the anyone less educated (servants?), who wouldn't understand what was being said. "Pardon my French" was then a way of excusing oneself to anyone else present who might not have grasped the meaning.


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## Danse Macabre

Last time I used this expression talking with a friend from US, he had a good laugh


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## xav

Fort intéressant.

Je n'imaginais pas toute la richesse de cette expression !
L'origine donnée par E-J en #25 me paraît vraisemblable, et plutôt 
flatteuse pour le français. 

Il nous arrive, de même, de nous excuser d'utiliser un mot ou une expression anglais ou latin, mais ce n'est pas assez fréquent pour que soit apparue une formule concise et toute prête qui puisse ensuite être utilisée de manière ironique ou semi-ironique comme "Pardon/excuse my French".

La question que je me pose est : est-ce que, comme pour "baiser", la mauvaise monnaie aurait chassé la bonne ? C'est-à-dire : est-ce que l'expression "Pardon/excuse my French" serait généralement employée, aujourd'hui, dans un sens ironique ? Y aurait-il une différence à ce sujet entre US English et UK English ?

Est-ce qu'elle serait essentiellement employée après des jurons (after swearing) ? Des jurons en anglais, ou en français (!) ?


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## Ratona

I sometimes use "pardon my French", I think it can also be seen as quite ironic even between a group of native English, French speakers.

I've always interpreted it as meaning "sorry, that was a foreign language I was speaking and I wasn't being rude at all!" Considering French was spoken by high society then surely the French language would have been chosen to strengthen the case for the lack of vulgarity intended (?). Either that or it simply could be that the French are our nearest neighbours and foreign language speakers!

There's a lot of history and rivalry between the two of us and I would hope that maybe if expressions were once used xenophobically or/and racially they are now seen merely in jest and banter, and neither party is offended!

 [...]


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## myrdup

Being a francophone from Quebec, I always found this expression, amusing because the only people I know who use it on a regular basis are the anglophones of the same place.  I have never heard a french use it.  I never saw it as offensive because i have always seen it used in a light way.


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## Starcreator

Ulysse001 said:
			
		

> Votre opinion est tout à votre honneur, mais en ce qui me concerne même si l'expression "excuse my French" peut avoir dans certains cas un aspect méprisant à l'égard des francophones et du français, je ne vois aucun mal à ce qu'elle soit utilisée. Moi-même j'utilise parfois en français des expressions bien moins politiquement correctes (même si c'est sans méchanceté), qui pour moi font en partie la saveur de ma langue. Je ne peux certainement pas contester aux autres le droit que je m'arroge en français


 
Je peux vous assurer que l'expression "pardon my french" ne fait pas en partie la saveur de la langue anglaise. C'est une expression qui pourrait déplaire les autres et en conséquence il vaut mieux ne pas la choisir. Quand il y a tant d'alternatives je ne vois pas pourquoi les gens pensent qu'il vaut mieux choisir une expression qui fait allusion à un manque de respect pour le français.



			
				Ratona said:
			
		

> I've always interpreted it as meaning "sorry, that was a foreign language I was speaking and I wasn't being rude at all!" Considering French was spoken by high society then surely the French language would have been chosen to strengthen the case for the lack of vulgarity intended (?). Either that or it simply could be that the French are our nearest neighbours and foreign language speakers!


 
But you make a lot of assumptions here. You assume that everyone who listens to it will interpret it the same way, which is entirely false. With every expression used there are many possible interpretations and, as I stated earlier, one of these interpretations may be to take offense. In order to avoid offending others it is best to avoid any expression which has a prevalent possibility of offending others, obviously, and so just like we do without swear words we can do without "Excuse my French".



			
				onehiphippy said:
			
		

> I have not heard a really satisfying answers. I don't think Anglophones think the french (french speaking peoples) curse any more. The language is associated with romance more that anything else. I think some Americans (not me) that the French are arrogant, but as pointed out early the expression is pardon MY french. I don't think the Conquering Normans said that much to the defeated Saxon.


 
Regardless of whether or not you think that this is the case, you cannot logically affirm that not one francophone will take this expression badly. As I have shown above, there is no sense in using a phrase whose literal meaning connects directly the filthiest words in our language with le français. Excuse my language would be a much better alternative.



			
				myrdup said:
			
		

> Being a francophone from Quebec, I always found this expression, amusing because the only people I know who use it on a regular basis are the anglophones of the same place. I have never heard a french use it. I never saw it as offensive because i have always seen it used in a light way.


 
Again, subjectivity. You've found it amusing, others will find it offensive.

http://www.phrases.org.uk/bulletin_board/41/messages/303.html

As has been said, when you use the phrase, you equate curse words with the French language. *Regardless* of whether you see it as a joke, *regardless* of your intent, the literal meaning of the phrase stands. If I say "Your culture is stupid" to someone colloquially and have good intentions in saying so, it does not negate the fact that the phrase itself is derogatory.

As a Canadian and a francophone, I particularly dislike the use of this expression by anglophones and am puzzled with regards to why anyone would want to use such an expression in the first place, whilst one like "Excuse my language" will do.

Star


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## Gil

E-J said:
			
		

> I would say I've heard _Pardon my French _much more often than _Excuse my French. _
> 
> 
> One theory I've come across is that this originated in the late 19th century, when highly educated people would switch to speaking in French when they wanted to express anything less than genteel. One imagines this must have softened the impact on the listener somewhat, but presumably it also meant that the speaker wouldn't appear coarse to the anyone less educated (servants?), who wouldn't understand what was being said. "Pardon my French" was then a way of excusing oneself to anyone else present who might not have grasped the meaning.



Along those lines, in the 21st century:


> "But, just as Humbert's mind is on a permanent knife-edge of sexual mania, so his creator manages to tread the vertiginous path between incest, by which few are tempted, and engagement with pupating or nymphlike girls, which will not lose its frisson. (You will excuse me if, like Humbert, I dissolve into French when euphemism is required.)


About Nabokov's Lolita, in December issue of The Atlantic Monthly.


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## xav

Trying to understand Starcreator's aggressive position, I am understanding only now that this sentence is now used exclusively after swearing, never after using French words or phrases. Am I right ?


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## zonbette

As far as I know, yes, you are right.


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## xav

Well - and never after swearing _in French _?


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## zonbette

I've never heard it in that context - but I'm not saying that it can't be the case.


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## Starcreator

xav said:
			
		

> Trying to understand Starcreator's aggressive position, I am understanding only now that this sentence is now used exclusively after swearing, never after using French words or phrases. Am I right ?


 
This is correct . Hence the aggressive position.


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## esprit

I find it interesting that there is such a big discussion about this... 

"excuse my french" is not directed at all against French people... at all!

In my experience, growing up in French Immersion schools in Canada, we kids always found it amusing that the French word for Seal was "Phoque", which sounds strangely a lot like F*ck.  
*
So, whenever anyone wanted to say the F-word, they would just say it, and then say "pardon my French", and pretend they were just saying "Phoque"
*
But... that was only within the last 20 years or so. I'm not sure it the expression is older than that.


Hope that helps...

~ esprit


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## gamone

This post is not really a request for help, but rather an observation concerning a curious Australian expression evoking the French language. Here's a specimen from today's press:

“Last night we saw the news that these [_accused individuals_] were going to get another appeal, and that just drops - excuse my French - the arse clean out of you,” he said.

If you look at what this fellow is saying, you'll soon see that there's no French in it whatsoever! Amusing, no?


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## hunternet

it means : excusez mon langage / passez-moi l'expression / si vous me permettez l'expression.

The word "French" seems to be used here to evoke rude language, which is rather an insult for us...French !


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## Cath.S.

rapho1 said:


> any suggestins please as to how to translalte this expression?
> Thanks


_Excusez mon langage,_
_pardonnez ma franchise / ma grossièreté._


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## OLN

watergirl said:


> For some reason, this expression is used (at least in the US) as a (humorous) way of apologizing for saying something using rude language.  An example:
> "And I said to the jerk, if you'll pardon my French, "F*** off!"
> 
> P.S.  I would love a good explanation of how that meaning came about!


Not an official source, but here is an explanation to "excuse my French", and here  too.
 'French already had a history of association with things considered vulgar'.
Quote (http://www.takeourword.com/Issue058.html) :
This phrase, in which _French_       refers to "bad language", is employed when the speaker feels       compelled to use an obscenity despite having listeners who might be       offended.  It's a late 19th century euphemism which first appeared in       _Harper's Magazine_ in 1895.
It is thought that the term _French       _is employed in this sense as it already had a history of association       with things considered vulgar.  As far back as the early 16th       century, _French pox_ and _the French disease_ were synonyms for       genital herpes, and _French-sick_ was another term for syphilis.        The OED also equates the adjective _French_ with       "spiciness", as in _French letter_ for "condom", _French kiss _(1923) and _French _(i.       e. "sexually explicit") _novels_ (from 1749).
English seems to have habit       of using words of nationality in a negative manner: see Mexican       standoff for more examples.


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## rapho1

The expression was used by an acquaintance of mine after having used a rather coarse sounding word in a message to me.
It is quite a time since I heard the expression, sugggesting it is a bit old fashioned. "Pardonnez-moi ma grossiete" captures the essence of the meaning I would have thought. I just wondered whether there was a similar expression in French with the boot on the other foot i.e. with the aspersion being cast on English!?
Thanks for all the replies - most interesting.


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## SteveD

hotpocket said:


> Hello,
> 
> The expression is "Pardon my French, but...."
> 
> We Americans sometimes use this as a pretext to insulting someone. I'm not sure why. It sort of maybe gives the speaker license to say something mean since he has just excused himself. What follows is rarely in French.
> 
> example: "Pardon my French, but you're an complete knucklehead"
> 
> Does that help?
> 
> hotpocket


 
In the UK, the expression is used as an apology just before or just after using a swearword.


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## Quaeitur

It's the equivalent of *Pardonnez-moi l'expression*.


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## JIBE1982

OK I see, I think in french we would say "je ne veux pas être méchant, mais..."
Comme par exemple "je ne veux pas être méchant, mais tu sens vraiment mauvais"


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## Quaeitur

JIBE1982 said:


> OK I see, I think in french we would say "je ne veux pas être méchant, mais..."
> Comme par exemple "je ne veux pas être méchant, mais tu sens vraiment mauvais"



Pas tout à fait. L'expression sert à demander pardon pour la forme: le langage utilisé, gros mots ou injures, pas le fond (les pensées exprimées).


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## hotpocket

Actually, I think I need to revise what I said before....I think I was off....what follows is usually a swear word that doesn't necessarily have to be directed at someone in particular.

For example:

"Pardon my French, but this party frickin' sucks!"


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## Cora Lynn

Bonjour à tous,

J'enseigne le français en Australie et, hier dans un cours, une élève m'a demandé si en français il y a l'équivalent de "Pardon my French".  Bien que je lui aie répondu "si vous me passez l'expression/excusez mon langage mais ... ", etc., je savais bien qu'elle faisait allusion à une locution qui mentionne (d'un ton légèrement péjoratif) une certaine langue étrangère; donc, j'ai dû lui avouer que je ne connaissais aucune expression qui, pour ainsi dire, 'renvoyait la balle à son adversaire', comme le font quelques expressions témoignant d'une tendance chez les Anglais de se moquer des Français, et vice versa.(exemples: filer à l'anglaise/take French leave & French letter/capote anglaise).
Alors, est-ce qu'on peut dire, par exemple, "Ah, excuse[z] mon chinois/grec [etc.]"?

Merci d'avance,
Cora Lynn


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## True North

Bonjour Cora Lynn.  Comme ma mère est américaine, j'ai l'autorité de vous dire que cette expression ''Pardon my French'' est utilisée aux États Unis pour s'excuser d'un langage vulgaire.
À ma connaissance, il n'existe pas d'équivalant ni dans une autre langue ni dans un autre pays.


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## Cora Lynn

True North said:


> ''Pardon my French'' est utilisée aux États Unis pour s'excuser d'un langage vulgaire.
> À ma connaissance, il n'existe pas d'équivalant ni dans une autre langue ni dans un autre pays.



Oui, merci True North, peut-être aurais-je dû dire plus précisément que c'est une expression utilisée par les anglophones en général, que ce soient les Australiens (comme moi, je le suis), les Anglais, les Irlandais, les Américains - j'imagine que l'emploi de cette locution est bien répandu.  Il est probable que ce à quoi je pensais, c'était à l'attitude taquineuse (moqueuse) des Français envers certaines nationalités, par exemple les blagues qu'on entend de temps en temps à propos des Belges, etc.
Si, en anglais australien (et je ne dis pas qu'il s'agisse uniquement de nos expressions idiomatiques en Australie), on n'arrive pas à comprendre un texte ou le discours d'un politique devant les caméras de télévision, par exemple, on peut dire: "I couldn't make head or tail of that; it's all Greek to me". ("J'ai rien pigé; on dirait du grec, quoi!").  Somme toute, je crois que c'est de là que provient l'esprit de ma question.


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## matoupaschat

Bonjour Cora Lynn,
En français, quand on ne comprend pas le discours plus ou moins compliqué que tient quelqu'un, on dit "Pour moi, c'est du chinois/de l'hébreu".
OK ?


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## Saints22

True North said:


> cette expression ''Pardon my French'' est utilisée aux États Unis pour s'excuser d'un langage vulgaire.



Not quite the same but if you are trying to excuse yourself to a senior or your boss for an upcoming avalanche of vulgar words you could try to use this English expression which is quite similar.

Pardon my french but this idea is complete bull=
With all due respect, this idea is complete bull = 
_Sauf votre respect, cette idée est une merde totale_


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## mcorazao

There was some discussion of the origin of the expression but the explanations were a little incomplete (in case anybody is really interested).
Probably something most people today are not familiar with but ... In Europe (and by extension the Americas) during recent centuries there developed an idea that in each country there was a proper way to talk and anything else was vulgar and offensive. Perhaps some have heard of the infamous signs in Brittany that used to say "Interdit de cracher ou parler Le Breton" ("No spitting on the ground or speaking Breton"). In Britain, in particular, the re-emergence of Anglo-Saxon nationalism caused the use of French to be considered unpatriotic, and hence offensive. Still, because French was the language of the nobility for so long, the upper classes still continued to be educated in French and many would still let French expressions slip into their English. Depending on whom they were speaking to they might apologize for doing so. This crystalized in the 19th century expression "pardon my French", which came to be used as a euphemism for using any offensive words.


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## Jessila

Thank you mcorazao for this detailed historical explanation. As a French woman myself, I found it very interesting!


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## balzar

An interesting thought that the English upper classes would apologise to inferiors for speaking a language the inferiors couldn't understand!
Is this opinion backed by any evidence?
I would have thought the previous opinion (some years ago!) that anything French was considered naughty is much more likely.
When did Anglo-Saxon nationalism diminish in England? If it then reappeared.....


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## mcorazao

I am not an expert in British history so take anything I have to say with a grain of salt. The suggestion of the upper class apologizing to the lower class probably did not occur a lot. I would think it would be more a case of an educated commoner speaking to another commoner. It is rather like today if somebody let's slip a political or religious viewpoint and then quickly apologizes in case the other person might be offended. It would not only have been the upper classes who were educated in French, and even commoners who were not French speaking often picked up a lot of French expressions from those who were.

Anglo-Saxon identity was pushed aside for centuries following the Norman conquest. But then that nationalism gradually began to re-assert itself in England to the point that the nobility, who largely spoke French, were forced to begin learning English so that the commoners would not rebel. Even after that, knowledge of French was still regarded as a distinction of culture and so it continued to influence English (the motto of the royal family is still Anglo-Norman French and legally the language is still allowed in British courts of law). It has only been in the 19th and 20th centuries that an Englishman could be considered well educated without some knowledge of French (and/or Latin).

As to your question when "Anglo-Saxon nationalism diminish"ed, I'm not sure how you mean that. Are you asking about what happened with the Norman Conquest or something else?


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## balzar

I rather thought the English had spent centuries fighting the French???  I assumed this would be what you call "Anglo-Saxon nationalism"....


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## mcorazao

I'm not sure it is constructive to get into a long discussion on British history here. I'd recommend reading over this, this, this, and this.

For what it is worth, it was in part the battles between France and England in the 14th century that turned things around. Parliament made English the official language, though it took a while for the royal court to actually make the change. Even then the French language and French culture continued to be a significant factor in British culture for a long time after that. In other words one can say that the Anglo-Saxon nationalism was a centuries-long reaction to the Norman conquest that you could say culminated with the emergence of the British Empire in the 19th century.


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## balzar

Right-oh!


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