# Help with Celtic gorwedd



## Margrave

I could not find any information about the etymology of _gorwedd_ (Welsh), _growethe_ (Cornish), meaning _lie, recline_. This would probably be from _gor+wedd_, but I am not sure. 

Please, can anybody point me to the right directions? Any advice is welcome.


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## Circunflejo

Margrave said:


> This would probably be from _gor+wedd_, but I am not sure.



Gor=over. Wedd would be soft for gwedd; and gwedd=gwe plus edd=something like starting a restful/calm state but I don't know if it makes sense all together.


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## AndrasBP

Margrave said:


> I could not find any information about the etymology of _gorwedd_ (Welsh)





Circunflejo said:


> Gor=over.


"Gorwedd" reminded me of "*gorsedd*" (community or meeting of bards), which seems to be a word of similar structure, gor (=over) + sedd (=seat).


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## Margrave

@Circunflejo thank you very much, this helps me to find a new perspective for the ethymology.


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## Margrave

@AndrasBP very interesting. I was looking for this word for another reasons not related to this post. I remember having read something about the communityof bards in an Irish book from the early 1900s (1910 I guess). But I could not find it again. If this is not too much work for you, please, could you post the source of this information about gorsedd, I meand not Wikipedia, but any book, article? I hope you have it!  If not, no problem and thank you!


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## AndrasBP

Margrave said:


> If this is not too much work for you, please, could you post the source of this information about gorsedd, I meand not Wikipedia, but any book, article? I hope you have it!


The *etymology *of "gorsedd" is taken from Wiktionary. The word in my previous post is linked to that page. You may not have noticed that because after the forum upgrade, links were made to look like blue-coloured text, but they used to be underlined.

As for the *meaning *of "gorsedd", I've come across this word many times when reading about Welsh culture, both in books and on the internet.
Here's a BBC page that tells you about it.


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## Margrave

Thank you.


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## Keith Bradford

I can say that_ to lie down_ is *gourvez *in Breton.


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## Margrave

@Keith Bradford thank you. Interesting how Breton changed from -edd into -ez.


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## AndrasBP

Margrave said:


> Interesting how Breton changed from -edd into -ez.


Welsh "dd" > Breton "z" seems to be a regular sound change:

W. dydd - Br. deiz (day)
W. blaidd - Br. bleiz (wolf)
W. mynydd - Br. menez (mountain)


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## Margrave

How is the pronunciantion of "y" in W? Is it like "ü"?


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## AndrasBP

Welsh "y" is a bit tricky. 
I've scanned this from my Teach Yourself Welsh book:





The Wiki article says that stressed "y" is not [ʌ] as in "sun", but a "schwa" sound. A "stressed schwa" is unusual but possible to master.


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## Margrave

@AndrasBP, thank you. I am going after this book you mentioned.


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## Welsh_Sion

Dear Margrave,

Here you find the etymologies for 'gorwedd', 'gorsedd' and a host of other Welsh words / geiriau Cymraeg. GPC is the Welsh equivalent of the English OED.

welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html 

[Crn. ​_growethe​_, Llyd. C. ​_gouruez​_, Llyd. Diw. ​_gourvez, en e c’hourvez​_, cf. ​_ar ei orwedd​_; dichon mai ​_gor-​_+​_gwedd​_ yn yr ystyr ‘ffurf’ y corff, &c., yn ymestyn dros y llawr sydd tu cefn i’r syniad] ​
As for 'Gorsedd of Bards of the Island of Britain)' (as opposed to Cornish, Patagonian and Irish versions), I'm happy to tell you that I a Member of same as a Linguist by Examination (Blue Robed Druid in technical language). 

I hope this all helps.


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## Margrave

@Welsh_Sion thank you. Glad to know you are part of the Bards. I read a book, dated from 1911 I think, about the history of the fíle and later druid and bards. Very interesting.


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## Vukabular

Margrave said:


> I could not find any information about the etymology of _gorwedd_ (Welsh), _growethe_ (Cornish), meaning _lie, recline_. This would probably be from _gor+wedd_, but I am not sure.
> 
> Please, can anybody point me to the right directions? Any advice is welcome.


gor + wedd
gor = english-gorge (throat) = serbian-grlo (throat), spanish-gorja, vulgar latin-gurg... from grrrrrr (onomatopeia) 

wedd = veda (sanskrit) wrong translated as knowledge. If you use serbian key for understanding word "veda" it will be "telling a story" 
VEDAti = speaking (arhaic serbian) 
ispoVEDAti = confess
pripoVEDAti = telling a story

Serbian and sanskrit have about 50% same words. There is sebian-welsh dictionary with 4000 same or similar words...


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## AndrasBP

Vukabular said:


> gor + wedd
> gor = english-gorge (throat) = serbian-grlo (throat), spanish-gorja, vulgar latin-gurg... from grrrrrr (onomatopeia)
> 
> wedd = veda (sanskrit) wrong translated as knowledge. If you use serbian key for understanding word "veda" it will be "telling a story"


Would you mind explaining to us how this relates to the meaning "lie down"?


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## Vukabular

It's hard to explain the connection between "lie" and "lie down" but there is and ill try to explain next time and there is connection with "lay, lie and oil"  

Gorsedd = throne
Gor + sedd
Gor = gore (up) Serbian
Sedd = sed, sedeti (to sit) Serbian

I have different approach to etymology so here is etymology of "glass", "ice", "cold", "eyes"... forget Pokorny  
The theory is based on the assumption that most words in European languages were created by the evolution of two consonants by the later addition of vowels and consonants. Here is one of many examples I have, the words are written in Serbian language and "*" stands for archaic verse, pay attention to the pronunciation and spelling of the words as well as the meaning and mutual association. LD> LeD (ice)> *LaD, hLaD (shade)> *LaDno, hLaDno (coLD)> LeDina (big ice, LanD)> pogLeD (sight [association ice> eyes])> izgLeD (look)> gLeDati (to watch) ... LeD (ice) is coLD and shine as goLD. Below I will leave "G" in front of "L", in Russian language the eyes are said "GLaza" and I will list some of the English words that associate on ice and contain GL: GLass, GLaze, GLamour, GaLantery, GLacier, GLossy ... here are some Serbian words: GLatko (smooth) GLeđ (glaze) , GLečer (glacier) ,oGLeDalo (mirror) , GLačati (to polish [Polish> PoLanD> land where was glacier in the ice age]). For the end I have left the Serbian word "staklo" (glass) and it means that it used to be liquid, "teklo" is past tense of "tok" (flow) and now it has been hardened ("steglo") , so we also have the word "tegla" (jar) ...


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