# Greece and Finland



## osemnais

Why are these countries' names so different in English than the ones in their respective language? Where do they come from?


> Please ask that in a new thread (only one question per thread)


 ok


----------



## Frank78

The English word "Greece" comes from Latin. The Romans called the area "Graecia". The majority of the European languages use the Latin version instead of a word which derived from "Ἑλλάς" (Hellas)

But "Graecia" is also related to the Greek word "Graikos". That was a Greek tribe which migrated to southern Italy (Magna Graecia) and probably the first people who came into contact with the Romans or Latins.


----------



## Ben Jamin

osemnais said:


> Why are these countries' names so different in English than the ones in their respective language? Where do they come from?
> ok


Names of countries vary from language to language, and there is no rule that the name in other languages should correspond to the name that the name used by the inhabitants themselves. In the case of both Greece and Finland the languages used in both of those countries differ quite much from other European languages. Moreover, both names were given to those countries when they were subject to foreign rule (Rome in the case of Greece, and Sweden in case of Finland).


----------



## Perseas

In this page from wikipedia there is useful information about the name of Greece/Hellas/Ελλάδα. For example:



> Aristotle was the first to use the name _Graeci_ (Γραικοί) in _Meteorology_, saying that the area about Dodona and Achelous was inhabited by the Selli and a people formerly called Graeci, but at his time Hellenes. From this statement of Aristotle it is asserted that the name of Graeci was at one period widely spread in Epirus and the western coast of Greece in general, hence it became the one by which the Hellenes were known to the Italic peoples on the opposite side of the Ionian Sea.



In the same page one can see how Greece is named in different languages. What impresses me more is that apart from the Greek language (_Ελλάδα_) only in Norwegian (_Hellas_),  in Vietnamese (_Hy Lạp_) and in Chinese is used a name which has the root *hl*. In European languages the common initial root is *gr*, while in some Asiatic languages the common root is  "*yun*" or "*ywn*", e.g. Yunan.


----------



## Gavril

Perseas said:


> In this page from wikipedia there is useful information about the name of Greece/Hellas/Ελλάδα. For example:
> 
> 
> 
> In the same page one can see how Greece is named in different languages. What impresses me more is that apart from the Greek language (_Ελλάδα_) only in Norwegian (_Hellas_),  in Vietnamese (_Hy Lạp_) and in Chinese is used a name which has the root *hl*. In European languages the common initial root is *gr*, while in some Asiatic languages the common root is  "*yun*" or "*ywn*", e.g. Yunan.



I'm not sure, but I think that the terms _Yun _etc. are related to the _Ion- _stem seen in _Ionia _(a region of Greece). This is probably also the origin of the Armenian term _Hunastan _(< earlier _*Yun*astan_) "Greece".

As far as _Finland_ vs. _Suomi_, my understanding is that the two terms didn't always refer to the same area. _Suomi _originally referred to the southwestern part of what is now Finland (this region is now called _Varsinais-Suomi _"Finland Proper" in Finnish), whereas I think the term _Finland _historically covered a broader area. At some point (I'm not sure when), the meaning of the two terms converged. Some languages spoken close to Finland use words related to _Suomi _to refer to Finland: Estonian _Soome, _Lithuanian _Suomija, _Latvian _Somija._


----------



## LilianaB

Maybe the name Suomi is of Baltic origin. There are a lot of loans in Finnish from Baltic languages. _Suodzia_ means soot in Lithuanian. _Miesto_ means place, maybe the two are combined to form the name Suomi. It is Suomija in Lithuanian, as you have mentioned. The first part os Suomi could come from the Baltic soot. There were burning the forest in those times, so I think a lot of soot could have been created, and there were pace covered with soot, or from where soot came. Su means also with in Lithuanian. I just think the word looks Baltic.


----------



## Maroseika

Finn - from Old-Norse finnr, the Norsemen's name for the Suomi. Some suggest a connection with fen (Harper).


----------



## Perseas

Gavril said:


> I'm not sure, but I think that the terms _Yun _etc. are related to the _Ion- _stem seen in _Ionia _(a region of Greece). This is probably also the origin of the Armenian term _Hunastan _(< earlier _*Yun*astan_) "Greece".


Yes, you are correct. Ionia (Ιωνία) was a region in Asia Minor --present-day Turkey-- , which was the nearest region of the Ancient Greek world to the peoples from Asia. Ionia was settled by Greek tribes (one of them was named "Ionians") probably during the 11th century BC.


----------



## Gavril

LilianaB said:


> Maybe the name Suomi is of Baltic origin. There are a lot of loans in Finnish from Baltic languages. _Suodzia_ means soot in Lithuanian. _Miesto_ means place, maybe the two are combined to form the name Suomi. It is Suomija in Lithuanian, as you have mentioned. The first part os Suomi could come from the Baltic soot. There were burning the forest in those times, so I think a lot of soot could have been created, and there were pace covered with soot, or from where soot came. Su means also with in Lithuanian. I just think the word looks Baltic.



A Baltic etymology has been proposed for _Suomi_, but it has nothing to do with the words for "soot" or "place". The proposed origin of _Suomi _is an ancestor of Lith. _Žemė _"Earth".


----------



## LilianaB

This is very interesting. How would it become Suomi from zeme? How would the sounds change? As a result of which shifts?
Seme is apparently the Earth, in Old Prussian, and semen is seed. Would these be cognates of Suomi?


----------



## se16teddy

The Greeks, as well as foreigners, have been imaginative in creating names for themselves.  Homer refers to them as Argives, Achaeans and Danaans, and apparently only once as Hellenes. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaeans_(Homer)


----------



## Gavril

LilianaB said:


> This is very interesting. How would it become Suomi from zeme? How would the sounds change? As a result of which shifts?
> Seme is apparently the Earth, in Old Prussian, and semen is seed. Would these be cognates of Suomi?



I'm not sure about the details of the proposed change from Baltic *_že__m-_ > _Suomi_ (personally, I still don't find this etymology very convincing). The normal outcome of Baltic _ž / š _in Finnish is _h _(see, for example, Fin. _hanhi _"goose", related to Lith. _žąsis_, and Fin. _hihna _"strap", related to Lith. _šikšnà_).

OPrus. _semen _is from a different root than Lith. _Žemė _(the first is related to Latin _semen, _the other to Lat. _homo_), so it wouldn't be cognate with _Suomi._


----------



## LilianaB

Thank you. Which Baltic sound is related to the Finnish s? Which Baltic sound could become s in Finnish, to be more precise?


----------



## Gavril

LilianaB said:


> Thank you. Which Baltic sound is related to the Finnish s? Which Baltic sound could become s in Finnish, to be more precise?



Baltic _s _is one sound that gives _s _in Finnish (right now, I can't think of any other Baltic sounds that regularly result in Finnish _s_). For example, the Finnish word for "seed" is _siemen_, which comes from a Baltic ancestor of the OPrus. word _semen _that you just mentioned.


----------



## LilianaB

Thank you.


----------

