# نذهب إلى مدارسنا مبكِّرين



## Ibn Nacer

Hello,

Why the word مُبَكِّرِينَ is plural in the following sentence : نذهبُ إِلَى مَدَارسنَا مُبَكِّرِينَ ? It seems strange to me. Do you know its grammatical function ?


Thank you very much.


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## Kinan

It follows the form of "we the students". Like نحن سعداء.
You can also say نذهب الى مدارسنا باكرا


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## lukebeadgcf

It is a حال, or a circumstantial accusative, specifying the state "we" are in while going to our schools. A حال accusative, when it takes the form of a derived adjective, always follows the agent, or عامل الحال, in gender and number. Consider the following:

وصلنا إلى البيت متأخرين We (A group of men or a group of men and women) arrived to the house late.

وصلتُ إلى البيت متأخرا I arrived to the house late.

وصلت إلى البيت متأخرةً I (a girl) arrived to the house late.

وصلنا إلى البيت متأخراتٍ We (a group exclusively comprised of women) We arrived to the house late.


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## Abu Talha

lukebeadgcf said:


> A حال accusative, when it takes the form of a derived adjective, always follows the agent, or عال الحال, in gender and number


 Hello Lukebeadgcf, I wonder if you could you elaborate on this a little? Do you mean when it is a اسم فاعل or اسم مفعول? 

Also, when would حال not agree in gender and number? I have an idea that this would be when it is a maSdar in the accusative, but I'm not sure if that qualifies as حال.

Thanks.


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## lukebeadgcf

daee said:


> Hello Lukebeadgcf, I wonder if you could you elaborate on this a little? Do you mean when it is a اسم فاعل or اسم مفعول?
> 
> Also, when would حال not agree in gender and number? I have an idea that this would be when it is a maSdar in the accusative, but I'm not sure if that qualifies as حال.
> 
> Thanks.



By "derived adjective," I mean أسماء الفاعل and أسماء المفعول and الأسماء المشبهة بالفعل.

And yes, you're exactly right about the second point. For example:

قتلناه صبرا We killed him in cold blood.


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## Abu Talha

lukebeadgcf said:


> By "derived adjective," I mean أسماء الفاعل and أسماء المفعول and الأسماء المشبهة بالفعل.
> 
> And yes, you're exactly right about the second point. For example:
> 
> قتلناه صبرا We killed him in cold blood.


Thanks Luke. In that case, Kinan's sentence above should have باكرين in the plural too?


Kinan said:


> It follows the form of "we the students". Like نحن سعداء.
> You can also say نذهب الى مدارسنا باكرا


Also, what about a sentence like يفعلون هكذا دائمين as the plural for يفعل هكذا دائما ? Looks odd, wouldn't you say?


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## Kinan

دائما here is an adverb so it shouldn't be plural, the same goes with باكرا


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## Abu Talha

Kinan said:


> دائما here is an adverb so it shouldn't be plural, the same goes with باكرا


Kinan, by adverb do you mean ظرف ?


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## Kinan

Yes, I mean ظرف زمان to be more precise.


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## Abu Talha

I see. Thanks, Kinan. I'm wondering, though, why مبكرا then can't be a ظرف زمان . Can only a certain set of words be ظرف ? I'll try looking into this too.


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## Kinan

Because مبكرا is referring to someone or something, so it's حال here. While باكرا is just general, it's in the universe, doesn't belong to anything.


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## Ibn Nacer

Kinan said:


> It follows the form of "we the students". Like نحن سعداء.
> You can also say نذهب الى مدارسنا باكرا



Thank you. Here the word "باكرا" is "maf3uul fiihi darf zamaan", is it correct ?



lukebeadgcf said:


> It is a حال, or a circumstantial accusative, specifying the state "we" are in while going to our schools. A حال accusative, when it takes the form of a derived adjective, always follows the agent, or عال الحال, in gender and number.



Thank you, I also thought it was a "haal", but I had doubts because the meaning of مُبَكِّرًا  is "early, soon" so it indicates a time (zamaan) then it should be a "maf3uul fiihi darf zamaan".

 How a word that indicates a time can refer to individuals to indicate their condition (haal)?

 But it seems that this word can have another meaning in English I found only "precocious" and in French I found "hâtif , matinal , matineux , précoce".




lukebeadgcf said:


> It is a حال, or a circumstantial accusative,  specifying the state "we" are in while going to our schools. A حال  accusative, when it takes the form of a derived adjective, always  follows the agent, or عال الحال, in gender and number. Consider the  following:
> 
> وصلنا إلى البيت متأخرين We (A group of men or a group of men and women) arrived to the house late.
> 
> وصلتُ إلى البيت متأخرا I arrived to the house late.
> 
> وصلت إلى البيت متأخرةً I (a girl) arrived to the house late.
> 
> وصلنا إلى البيت متأخراتٍ We (a group exclusively comprised of women) We arrived to the house late.



Thank you for these useful examples. 

PS : عال الحال is synonymous with صاحب الحال ?


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## lukebeadgcf

> Thanks Luke. In that case, Kinan's sentence above should have باكرين in the plural too?



No, unless the sentence were to carry the meaning of, "The students, who are early birds, went to class." In other words, making باكرا into باكرين turns the word into a حال غير منتقلة, describing a permanent state.

For more on this, see this thread:

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2265397&highlight=سريعا



> Thank you. Here the word "باكرا" is "maf3uul fiihi darf zamaan", is it correct ?



No, but close. This word is a صفة which stands in for a ظرف زمان and ينوب عنه. We therefore call it نائب عن الظرف. The full intended sentence, the تقدير, is ذهبنا إلى مدارسنا وقتا باكرا.



> Thank you, I also thought it was a "haal", but I had doubts because the meaning of مُبَكِّرًا  is "early, soon" so it indicates a time (zamaan) then it should be a "maf3uul fiihi darf zamaan".



مبكّرا is different from باكرا in that it refers directly to the action of the agent of the verb. Someone who is مبكّر (which is an اسم فاعل of the measure-II verb بكّر) is someone who is early, beforehand, or in advance. It would not make sense to say ذهبنا وقتا مبكّرا, as if the time had some sort of active part in being early. See the thread mentioned above to see how Rayloom explains the difference between سريعا and مسرعا.



> PS : عال الحال is synonymous with صاحب الحال ?



I'm sorry, I meant to write عامل الحال. And yes, (I think) they are synonymous. 



> I see. Thanks, Kinan. I'm wondering, though, why مبكرا then can't be a  ظرف زمان . Can only a certain set of words be ظرف ? I'll try looking  into this too.



As I tried to explain above, time does not, generally speaking, يبكّر, a person does.



> Also, what about a sentence like يفعلون هكذا دائمين as the plural for يفعل هكذا دائما ? Looks odd, wouldn't you say?



Again, you have turned the منصوب into a حال غير منتقلة instead of a نائب of either a ظرف زمان or a مفعول مطلق.


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## Abu Talha

lukebeadgcf said:


> For more on this, see this thread:
> 
> http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2265397&highlight=سريعا


Yes, I had that thread in mind too! It seemed to me like there were cases when it could be thought of as a حال or not. Thanks for the explanation.


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## Ibn Nacer

Thank you lukebeadgcf for these helpful answers.



lukebeadgcf said:


> مبكّرا is different from باكرا in that it refers directly to the action of the agent of the verb. Someone who is مبكّر (which is an اسم فاعل of the measure-II verb بكّر) is someone who is early, beforehand, or in advance. It would not make sense to say ذهبنا وقتا مبكّرا, as if the time had some sort of active part in being early. See the thread mentioned above to see how Rayloom explains the difference between سريعا and مسرعا.
> 
> ...
> 
> As I tried to explain above, time does not, generally speaking, يبكّر, a person does.



Ok, but it seems to me that the word "باكر" is also a اسم فاعل from بكر (form I), no ? But it is possible that the diifférence is that the verbبكر is a state verb, not a action verb.

I will look at the link above.


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## lukebeadgcf

> PS : عال الحال is synonymous with صاحب الحال ?



I need to apologize. عامل الحال and صاحب الحال are certainly not the same thing. صاحب الحال is the person or object whose state is being described by the حال, whereas the عامل الحال is the verb or verb-like structure that makes the حال accusative. Consider the following sentence:

وصل الطالب مبكِّرا

In this sentence the حال is مبكرا, the صاحب الحال is الطالب and the عامل الحال is وصل.


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## Ibn Nacer

lukebeadgcf said:


> I need to apologize. عامل الحال and صاحب الحال are certainly not the same thing. صاحب الحال is the person or object whose state is being described by the حال, whereas the عامل الحال is the verb or verb-like structure that makes the حال accusative. Consider the following sentence:
> 
> وصل الطالب مبكِّرا
> 
> In this sentence the حال is مبكرا, the صاحب الحال is الطالب and the عامل الحال is وصل.


Ok, I understand thank you.


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