# foreigner, non-Chinese



## Marsario

Hi!

I was wondering which were the various different ways a Chinese could use to address a foreigner, I would like to know historical and traditional words, too, as well as slang and less polite words, if it is also possible.

1) Well, one is 外国人, foreigner.
2) Would you use 外海人 with any frequency?
3) Is there a word to say "Western" meaning something like "of European legacy", what English people would use to describe people from Europe, America, Australia and New Zealand?
4) During its history, China has always had problems dealing with barbarian nomadic people from North and East. Have you got a particular word to portray those people? Would you call them barbarians or what?
5) Have you got particular words to address particular foreign ethnic groups around China?

Other choices are welcome!

Thank you a lot!


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## donnamatch

Hi, Marsario,
1)外国人 is the word people use more frequently. We also use 老外, a less informal word to substitute外国人。Interestingly, when Chinese people are thinking of 外国人 or 老外, they're more likely to picture a person from Western origins. Japenese and Korean, although they're technically 外国人, are more likely to be called by their nationality. 
   We do have some offensive terms to indicate foreigners. For example, 洋鬼子=people from Western countries. 鬼子 without 洋 indicates Japenese。
2）I've never heard of 外海人…… 
3) Westerners=西方人。欧美人 also can be used, but it literally means people from Europe and Americas.
4) There are lots of terms to describe the nomadic groups around China. First of all, of course, we call them by particular names, like 蒙古人=Mongolians。Historically, they have been called 胡人，夷狄（the meaning of this word doesn't limit to the nomadic groups),鞑子（this is really offensive),etc. 
5）Are you talking about historical names or the words for the minority groups in China today? There're lots of historical terms, and I don't really have enough knowledge to distinguish each of them. Some of them are talking about specific groups, but later on since common people didn't really care about the differences among these groups, the terms got misused. For example:匈奴，突厥，鲜卑，羌，氐，羯……
    If you're talking about other ethnic groups today, yes we do have particular names of them. These names are pretty neutral, accepted by members of those ethnic groups themselves: 满族，藏族，蒙古族，维吾尔族,etc.


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## Rabau

Donnamatch gets the correct answer for you, but for point 4 or 5 , you 'd better learn the Chinese long history.


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## Miyazakehime

We have also a 洋人 which is not offensive developing from 洋夷 refering to westerners and 东洋人/东洋鬼子 refering to Japanese.

To #1,I think it's not proper to mention ethnic groups in the reply to this.


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## Marsario

Hi, thank you for your answers! I am doing research for the essay I have to write for a university course I have got. The subject of the essay was up to us (anything that concerned Asia), but I thought of researching on the Chinese perception and consideration of China and of other countries through history. I thought of starting analyzing the etymology of 中国 and of the characters used to describe foreign countries and foreign people, and you have provided me with interesting information.


> Interestingly, when Chinese people are thinking of 外国人 or 老外, they're  more likely to picture a person from Western origins. Japenese and  Korean, although they're technically 外国人, are more likely to be called  by their nationality.


This is indeed very interesting. 
Would the other natives of WR also usually avoid 外国人 when thy refer to Korean and Japanese people?


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## donnamatch

What does WR stand for?


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## xiaolijie

donnamatch said:
			
		

> What does WR stand for?


for "WordReference"



			
				Masario said:
			
		

> Would the other natives of WR also usually avoid 外国人 when thy refer to Korean and Japanese people?


Not exactly "avoiding", they only become more specific, just as we in Europe become more specific when referring to German, Italian, French, Irish... people.


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## donnamatch

xiaolijie said:


> for "WordReference"
> 
> Not exactly "avoiding", they only become more specific, just as we in Europe become more specific when referring to German, Italian, French, Irish... people.



Yep I agree with xiaolijie. It's probably because China, Korea, and Japan are both geologically and culturally related to each other, so we have a better understanding of those two countries, much better than our understanding of the Western countries.
Besides, Westerners, especially Caucasians (since I'm not sure whether "Westerners" is limited to Caucasians or not), have very different physical appearance compared to people in East Asia. So when people think of 外国人, they are more likely to think about those who look distinctively different from themselves. I think that might be the case for people in Europe, too.


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## Marsario

Thank you all for your answers!


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## SuperXW

Marsario said:


> 1) Well, one is 外国人, foreigner.
> The basic and universally applicable one.
> 
> 2) Would you use 外海人 with any frequency?
> Never heard of this. I'd say it's wrong.
> Don't mess up with 海外 (oversea), including 海外学子, 海外华侨...
> 
> 3) Is there a word to say "Western" meaning something like "of European legacy", what English people would use to describe people from Europe, America, Australia and New Zealand?
> Westerner 西方人
> 洋人 generally means foreigners, especially Westerners. It's more casual than 外国人.
> 
> 4) During its history, China has always had problems dealing with barbarian nomadic people from North and East. Have you got a particular word to portray those people? Would you call them barbarians or what?
> Use 蛮夷, if you try to be a racist scholar and insult those people. This is not a slang word. It's quite formal and literate. It frequently appeared in those old nationalists' poems.
> Use 游牧民族 as the politicaly correct term for the nomadic people.
> 
> 5) Have you got particular words to address particular foreign ethnic groups around China?
> Sure. They are mostly offensive and insulting. There's a wiki page about it.


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## mayingdts

棒子=Korean people （avoiding using this offensive word unless necessary）


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## Marsario

> 2) Would you use 外海人 with any frequency?
> Never heard of this. I'd say it's wrong.
> Don't mess up with 海外 (oversea), including 海外学子, 海外华侨...



Yes, I did mix up 外海 and 海外... sorry...


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## Youngfun

Ciao Marsario,
gli utenti sopra, soprattutto donnamatch, ti hanno già dato risposte abbastanza esaustive.
A ciò aggiungerei quest'altri termini piuttosto offensivi/denigratori.

Usati in Cina:
红头阿三、阿三、印度阿三：indiani (dell'India)
红毛：russi

Usati a Singapore:
红毛：occidentali, spesso trascritto come Hung mo (dialetto Hokkien)
阿中：termine offensivo con cui i cinesi di Singapore chiamano i nuovi immigrati cinesi venuti dalla Cina, pronunciato "A Tiong" dall'Hokkien

In Cantonese:
鬼佬、白鬼、番鬼* (Cantonese)：soprattutto occidentali bianchi 

E per finire:
香蕉人："uomo-banana", cioè colui che è "giallo fuori" ma "bianco dentro". Termine offensivo per designare le persone di origine cinese nati e cresciuti all'estero, che hanno fisionomia cinese ma non conoscono la lingua e la cultura cinesi. (per fortuna non faccio parte di questa categoria  ma ho tanti amici così)

Se ti interessa, questi sono i termini usati dai cinesi d'Italia:
番人*：non cinesi, soprattutto occidentali (quindi spesso si parlerà d'italiani). Simile a 老外/洋人
黑鬼："mostri neri": persone dalla pelle nera, in genere africani
半黑："mezzi neri": colorito intermedio, non completamente "neri", in genere arabi e magrebini, ma anche indiani, bengalesi, sudamericani ecc.

Inoltre c'è una sottile differenza tra 老外, 洋人 e il nostro 番人 da una parte, e il termine neutro 外国人 dall'altra.
I primi 3 termini indicano persone non-cinesi sempre e comunque, ovunque ci si trovi geograficamente, mentre 外国人 può dipendere dal luogo in cui si risiede.
Pertanto se un cinese in Italia parla di 老外 o di 番人 si riferirà comunque ai non-cinesi, italiani compresi. Mentre se usa 外国人 probabilmente si riferirà ai non-italiani.

Per approndimenti, se capisci il cinese, ho aperto un megathread sulle espressioni tipiche che usano i cinesi d'Italia.
*Di 番人 e 番鬼 se n'è parlato qui (sempre in cinese).

Sulla Wikipedia cinese c'è un articolo abbastanza esaustivo, probabilmente quello di cui parlava SuperXW.

写了这么多，不想翻译了……


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## Marsario

Grazie anche a te YoungFun!


> 香蕉人："uomo-banana", cioè colui che è "giallo fuori" ma "bianco dentro".  Termine offensivo per designare le persone di origine cinese nati e  cresciuti all'estero, che hanno fisionomia cinese ma non conoscono la  lingua e la cultura cinesi. (per fortuna non faccio parte di questa  categoria  ma ho tanti amici così)
> Ahaha!


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## Youngfun

A proposito di uomini-banana: http://ibc.blogsociale.it/info/


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## Marsario

Hi!

I was looking at the character 夷, and I realized it is actually an ideogram.
Yellowbridge (http://www.yellowbridge.com/chinese/character-etymology.php?searchChinese=1&zi=弓) says it is composed of 大 originally meaning man, and 弓 meaning bow, ie a person using a bow.
It makes sense, however it is also easy to notice that the character could also have developed from a person riding a horse (in fact, barbarians were people how used to ride horses and used bows. Does anybody know what the picture of the oracle bone character for 夷 looked like?


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## xiaolijie

Marsario said:
			
		

> Does anybody know what the picture of the oracle bone character for 夷 looked like?


Sorry Marsario, your latest question seems a bit too remote from the current thread. 
If you still want to ask about it, please open a new thread. This current one seems to have served its purpose and I'm closing it.


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