# Pronunciation of a compound noun



## Diablo919

I know it is customary to drop the "n" on an "-en" ending, but what about in the middle of a word? 

For example:  "buitenland" 
Is the "n" in buiten pronounced?

And also, I encountered a  "rijstafel" at an Indonesian restaurant (Sama Sebo in Amsterdam!). Is it pronounced "rijs-tafel" or "rij-stafel" (in a very informal environment, maybe fast chatting between two friends do the words overlap)

Thanks.


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## jippie

I would say that the -n- in buitenland is pronounced, though I really think it depends on region, age and social level. 

About rijsttafel: note that it is a compound of rijst (rice) and tafel (table). So the pronounciation would be rijs(t)-tafel.


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## Diablo919

Is it safe to say that in a compound noun like rijsttafel, that the two words are end and beginning syllables of the first and second word are pronounced seperately, like rijs(t)-tafel?


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## jippie

Diablo919 said:


> Is it safe to say that in a compound noun like rijsttafel, that the two words are end and beginning syllables of the first and second word are pronounced seperately, like rijs(t)-tafel?


 
No, by putting the t between brackets I wanted to indicate that the first t is not pronounced. Sorry if that wasn't clear. And as I said before, pronounciation is so different between the regions, ages and social classes, that I wouldn't dare to give any 'rules'. I really think you need someone more specialized in linguistics for that. Sorry!


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## Joannes

Diablo919 said:


> For example: "buitenland"
> Is the "n" in buiten pronounced?


Even in my most formal Dutch, I wouldn't pronounce the /n/. It's what I was taught to be Standard Dutch.



Diablo919 said:


> Is it pronounced "rijs-tafel" or "rij-stafel"


What's the difference? Dutch compounds are supposed to be pronounced as one word.



Diablo919 said:


> Is it safe to say that in a compound noun like rijsttafel, that the two words are end and beginning syllables of the first and second word are pronounced seperately, like rijs(t)-tafel?


I don't understand this question.


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## Diablo919

Sorry for the confusion Joannes; What I meant was:

Generally, can I pronounce the two parts of a compound separately? ex: rijs-tafel and not rij-STafel. Do you understand now? I know they are the same word, but I'm just trying to figure out the syllable divisions.


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## Andrealine

In everyday speech you wouldn't hear a difference between rijs-tafel and rij-stafel because it's pronounced quickly as one word. In writing however, if you want to abbreviate the word at the end of a line, it would be rijst-tafel. If you want to be really accurate in your pronunciation, you could say rijs-tafel because you definitely wouldn't hear the t in rijst.


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## Joannes

Diablo919 said:


> Generally, can I pronounce the two parts of a compound separately? ex: rijs-tafel and not rij-STafel.


If I only read until the question mark, my answer would be 'no'. When I see your examples, I get confused again. 



Diablo919 said:


> Do you understand now?






Diablo919 said:


> I know they are the same word, but I'm just trying to figure out the syllable divisions.


I'm no expert at syllabifications of spoken words, but I would say that in ['rɛɪstafəl], the first syllable is ['rɛɪs] and [tafəl] is the second. In written language, you should separate them like this: rijst-tafel.

Hope this helps.


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## langzot

Hello, about the "buitenland" issue. I've never heard anyone pronounce the "-n" here. It sounds stunted if you do. If the "-n-" is followed by a consonant, it's not pronounced, I think. If anyone can disprove this, please share.


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## Grytolle

Sounds quite improbable that anyone would pronounce the n there indeed. What do you think of a pronounced n in "krantendoos" resp. "dadendrang", though, langzot? 


(I'm hoping it sounds good in #2 but not in #1)


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## Frank06

Hi,

These two links might be interesting:
- Wikipedia: Spellinguitspraak;
- Jan Stroop: Terreur van de spelling (at the end of the article);

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Grytolle

Ik zie niet in waarom [ɪg] spellinguitspraak zou zijn... "Heeft-ie" staat in dat wikipedia-artikel ook beschreven alsof het een in het hele taalgebied algemene vorm zou zijn  Dat de n in "hondenhok" niet nooit uitgesproken zou zijn geweest, lijkt mij nog onwaarschijnlijker. In het voorwoord van het spellingontwerp van het WNT staat zelfs te lezen dat de n, op een uitzondering na, geschreven moest worden voor klinkers en h - omdat de beschaafde uitspraak dat eiste.


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## Frank06

Hoi,


Grytolle said:


> Ik zie niet in waarom [ɪg] spellinguitspraak zou zijn...


*Ik zie niet in wat dit te maken heeft met de uitspraak van samenstellingen, toevallig het onderwerp van deze discussie.
Het staat u vrij om zoveel discussies te open als u wil (graag zelfs), maar we vragen u (nogmaals) om de zeer eenvoudige regel "1 onderwerp, 1 thread" te respecteren.*



> "Heeft-ie" staat in dat wikipedia-artikel ook beschreven alsof het een in het hele taalgebied algemene vorm zou zijn


*Idem dito.*



> Dat de n in "hondenhok" niet nooit uitgesproken zou zijn geweest, lijkt mij nog onwaarschijnlijker. In het voorwoord van het spellingontwerp van het WNT staat zelfs te lezen dat de n, op een uitzondering na, geschreven moest worden voor klinkers en h - omdat de beschaafde uitspraak dat eiste.


Dan heeft Wikipedia een ongelukkig voorbeeld gekozen.

Groetjes,

Frank
*Moderator* & Poster


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