# 終われない - intransitive 終わる



## JoAnne van Heff

The context is the following:

まだ仕事?
うん、今日はまだ終われないんだ。

I understand it means:
"Still working?
Yes, today I cannot finish it yet. " (Literrally)

My question is: why is the intransitive 終わる used here instead of the transitive verb?

Please abstain from trying to.give an answer if you do not know how to explain grammar.


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## kanadaaa

It _is _an intransitive verb.
The transitive form is 終える, not 終わる.
終われない=終わ(未然)+れ(可能助動詞•未然)+ない(否定)


JoAnne van Heff said:


> Please abstain from trying to.give an answer if you do not know how to explain grammar.


FYI, I’m a linguist but this is annoying.
Go to a language school if you want help by experts.
I mean, did you really need to say this?


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## Flaminius

If you define, *kanadaaa*, the transitive verb as a verb that governs an _o_-marked direct object, _owaru_ can be used as a transitive: 僕はこの話を終わった時の彼の顔色を覚えている。(芥川龍之介「河童」)

まだ終われない: I understand the verb with an implied object, _shigoto-o_.  It’s always dangerous to see things invisible with or without the help of substance, but the foregoing まだ仕事 allows this understanding.

*JoAnne*, these fora are a venue of discussion by every ordinary person.  You can ask for specific type of advice but you cannot limit what persons can answer your questions.


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## kanadaaa

Flaminius said:


> If you define, *kanadaaa*, the transitive verb as a verb that governs an _o_-marked direct object, _owaru_ can be used as a transitive: 僕はこの話を終わった時の彼の顔色を覚えている。(芥川龍之介「河童」)


That’s an interesting point.
I’m sorry if I’m a little too subjective, but I’m a person who wants to exclude a _pro_-drop in a position that’s lexical-governed.
But your view is also possible, Flaminius.
I guess this is going to be an endless dispute, but at least for me it’s easier to think of the verb as an intransitive.


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## Schokolade

JoAnne van Heff said:


> why is the intransitive 終わる used here instead of the transitive verb?



終わる can be transitive, too.
eg 「以上で私のスピーチを終わります。」
「これで今日の授業を終わります。」

明鏡国語辞典 confirms:


> おわる【終わる】
> 一〘自〙➊続いていた物事がそこでおしまいになる。終わりになる。
> 「仕事が４時に終わる」「戦争が終わる」...
> 二*〘他〙*➊続けていたことがそこでおしまいになる。終える。
> 「５時に会議を終わる」「話を終わる」


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## JoAnne van Heff

....


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## JoAnne van Heff

Schokolade said:


> 終わる can be transitive, too.
> eg 「以上で私のスピーチを終わります。」
> 「これで今日の授業を終わります。」
> 
> 明鏡国語辞典 confirms:


 Thanks, that makes sense, I don´t understand why my dictionary doesn´t say it can be transitive too.


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## JoAnne van Heff

kanadaaa said:


> FYI, I’m a linguist but this is annoying.
> Go to a language school if you want help by experts.
> I mean, did you really need to say this?



Sorry if I ofended you, but yes, I did go to a language school and paid for explanations and native Japanese teachers were not able to explain simple things. That is why I am a bit pissed off about native (not only Japanese) speakers who think that just because they are native they can be teachers.


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## JoAnne van Heff

kanadaaa said:


> It _is _an intransitive verb.
> The transitive form is 終える, not 終わる.
> 終われない=終わ(未然)+れ(可能助動詞•未然)+ない(否定)


If it is only intransitive, then how would you translate "うん、今日はまだ終われないんだ" ?


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## kanadaaa

JoAnne van Heff said:


> If it is only intransitive, then how would you translate "うん、今日はまだ終われないんだ" ?


Something like “my work can’t come to an end”? Quite strange though.
But please note that I didn’t say it doesn’t have a transitive form.
The controversial point here is whether or not we should assume an “understood” object.
For me it’s more “effortless” to think of it as an intransitive because there’s no overt object.
Let’s say the English “finish” has an intransitive use that means “finish something”.
Then you’d be able to say “I can’t finish yet” instead  of “I can’t finish (x) yet”, without having to use energy to assume the presence of a covert object x.
So there’s no problem even if we take it to be an intransitive.
But I admit that it’s easy to assume a covert object, although in that case you should be wary of the difference among:

仕事が終わらない
仕事を終わらない (Could be ok with a special context)
仕事が終えない
仕事を終えない

The presence of the auxiliary れ is tricky in your example.
If 終わる is the prototype, this れ seems to me to be working as though it was a transitive marker.


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## JoAnne van Heff

Thanks!


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