# Maydan



## bearded

Hello everyone
Not knowing Ucrainian, but knowing some Arabic, I noticed that in Kiev the name of the revolutionary square was Maydan (Majdan, according to other media), while in Arabic the word for 'square' - especially a large square - is _maydaan_. Is it a sheer coincidence or might there be a (far-fetched?) connection? In advance many thanks to anyone able to give me a reply.
EDIT: I am, of course, aware that Slavic and Semitic languages have nothing to do with each other, so you don't have to explain this to me.


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## berndf

No coincidence. The Ukrainian word is an Arabic loan, possibly via Turkish, Persian and/or Crimean.


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## bearded

Thank you, berndf.  When you say 'via...Crimean'  do you mean Tatar Crimean, OldGreek Cremean or any other language..?


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## origumi

In several other languages too: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/ميدان


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## berndf

bearded man said:


> Thank you, berndf.  When you say 'via...Crimean'  do you mean Tatar Crimean, OldGreek Cremean or any other language..?


Tatar Crimean.


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## fdb

The Arabic maydān is actually a loanword from one of the Middle Iranian languages, probably Parthian madyān (cf Persian miyān “middle”), which is cognate with “middle”, “medius” and similar words in Indo-European.


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## bearded

Very interesting replies, I am grateful.  On Italian media you hear and read 'Piazza Maidan' (Maydan Square) which is obviously an erroneous repetition since the name already means square.  That is why my doubt arose that it could be the name of some Ukrainian person rather than a loanword from Arabic...


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## ESustad

By any chance, is the Indonesian city name Medan from the same root?


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## CapnPrep

bearded man said:


> That is why my doubt arose that it could be the name of some Ukrainian person rather than a loanword from Arabic...


The name of the square is Maidan Nezalézhnosti (Independence Square). Be sure to tell the Italian media


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## jasio

bearded man said:


> On Italian media you hear and read 'Piazza Maidan' (Maydan Square) which is obviously an erroneous repetition since the name already means square.



Polish journalists often say just about "Majdan", as if it was a proper noun, although in fact it is a common noun. Sometimes they even write about "Majdan Niepodległości", which is strange (the proper translation is "Plac Niepodległości"), but "Majdan" is in fact a sort of a brand since the 'Orange revolution'.



bearded man said:


> Not knowing Ucrainian, but knowing some Arabic, I noticed that in Kiev the name of the revolutionary square was Maydan (Majdan, according to other media), while in Arabic the word for 'square' - especially a large square - is _maydaan_. Is it a sheer coincidence or might there be a (far-fetched?) connection? In advance many thanks to anyone able to give me a reply.



Ukraine had long-lasting war and trade contacts with Byzantine empire, Greeks, Turks, Tartars... there are plenty of loanwords from these languages in Ukrainian (also, albeit to a lesser degree, in Polish, which was commonly used in modern Western Ukraine until the end of WWII).


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## apmoy70

In Greek the word *«μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.) < Tur. meydan, has survived: 
i/ in Heraclion (the capital of the island of Crete), where the city's central square is officially called _Nicephorus Phocas' sq._, but the locals call it *«Μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.).
ii/ in the derogatory expression *«βγήκε στο μεϊντάνι»* [v'ʝice sto me.in'dani] --> _(s/he) went tricking up_
 iii/ in the traditional regional clothing; in some regions the traditional embroidered waistcoat is called *«μεϊντανογέλεκο»* [me.indano'ʝeleko] (neut.) --> _meydan-waistcoat_


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## fdb

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek the word *«μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.) < Tur. meydan, has survived:
> i/ in Heraclion (the capital of the island of Crete), where the city's central square is officially called _Nicephorus Phocas' sq._, but the locals call it *«Μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.).
> ii/ in the derogatory expression *«βγήκε στο μεϊντάνι»* [v'ʝice sto me.in'dani] --> _(s/he) went tricking up_
> iii/ in the traditional regional clothing; in some regions the traditional embroidered waistcoat is called *«μεϊντανογέλεκο»* [me.indano'ʝeleko] (neut.) --> _meydan-waistcoat_



Interesting.


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## bibax

The Czech word *mejdan* [ˈmɛɪ̯dan] is a loanword from Serbo-Croatian (mejdan, megdan), original meaning _'fight, wrestling; fighting place, wrestling place, ring, arena'_ (very rarely used in this sense). Now it means exclusively *'a wild noisy party'* (with a lot of alcoholic beverages consumed)'.

Ukrajinci od vedle měli zase *mejdan*._ = The next-door Ukrainians had *a wild party* again._

From a Croatian on-line dictionary:


> *mègdān* (*mèjdan*)
> 
> 
> *1. *_pov._  tjelesno vježbanje i nadmetanje, organizirano uz narodne i vjerske  skupove u balkanskim zemljama Osmanskog Carstva, od srednjega vijeka (u  skakanju, jahanju, bacanju koplja, kamena i sl.) *= a type of competition in physical training organized in the medieval Balkans during the Ottoman Empire;**2. *_reg._ _ekspr._ (u narodnoj poeziji i usmenoj književnosti) *a. *boj između dvije osobe = *duel*; dvoboj [_izaći na megdan_] *b. *_meton._ sraz, sukob dviju vojski; boj, bitka = *battle, combat*


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## Ben Jamin

jasio said:


> Polish journalists often say just about "Majdan", as if it was a proper noun, although in fact it is a common noun. Sometimes they even write about "Majdan Niepodległości", which is strange (the proper translation is "Plac Niepodległości"), but "Majdan" is in fact a sort of a brand since the 'Orange revolution'.
> 
> 
> 
> Ukraine had long-lasting war and trade contacts with Byzantine empire, Greeks, Turks, Tartars... there are plenty of loanwords from these languages in Ukrainian (also, albeit to a lesser degree, in Polish, which was commonly used in modern Western Ukraine until the end of WWII).



The word "Maidan" has also been used until the XIX century, and widely known in Polish (loan from Ukrainian) until recently. It must have disappeared in the last 30 years. Polish journalists have apparently stopped reading books written before 1960.


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## Perseas

apmoy70 said:


> In Greek the word *«μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.) < Tur. meydan, has survived:
> i/ in Heraclion (the capital of the island of Crete), where the city's central square is officially called _Nicephorus Phocas' sq._, but the locals call it *«Μεϊντάνι»* [me.in'dani] (neut.).
> ii/ in the derogatory expression *«βγήκε στο μεϊντάνι»* [v'ʝice sto me.in'dani] --> _(s/he) went tricking up_
> iii/ in the traditional regional clothing; in some regions the traditional embroidered waistcoat is called *«μεϊντανογέλεκο»* [me.indano'ʝeleko] (neut.) --> _meydan-waistcoat_


Hi apmoy!
I admit I didn't know that "μεϊντάνι" exists in Greek. I looked up in Dimitrakou dictionary and indeed there is the lemma "μεϊντάνι". I suppose that the younger generations don't know it at all (except in the case of the central square in Heraclion). But I know that it exists in surnames: _Μεϊντάνης_ or _Μεϊδάνης_.


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## apmoy70

Perseas said:


> Hi apmoy!
> I admit I didn't know that "μεϊντάνι" exists in Greek. I looked up in Dimitrakou dictionary and indeed there is the lemma "μεϊντάνι". I suppose that the younger generations don't know it at all (except in the case of the central square in Heraclion). But I know that it exists in surnames: _Μεϊντάνης_ or _Μεϊδάνης_.


Hi Perseas.

Indeed *«μεϊντάνι»* is a word in the Cretan regiolect. I've heard it in Crete, and remembered the word now with the situation in Ukraine.
The «μεϊντανογέλεκο» on the other hand, is more commonly used and describes the waistcoat embroidered with gold thread, worn at the Square's (=Meydan) Holiday stroll, now part of regional folk costume


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## jasio

Ben Jamin said:


> The word "Maidan" has also been used until the XIX century, and widely known in Polish (loan from Ukrainian) until recently. It must have disappeared in the last 30 years.



Considering that Rzeczpospolita was effectively multilinguial, it might have been equally well a parallel loanword from Turkish or Tartar. But indeed, the word existed, although my first association was (incorrectly) in a context of horse riding. 



Ben Jamin said:


> Polish  journalists have apparently stopped reading books written before  1960.



Who reads them in the first place? There are a few in a literature standard for schools, but it would be about everything.


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