# For the materialist, the science is “in”



## Pond of Flowers

Necesito ayuda con el significado de  "in" en el siguiente contexto:

For the materialist, the science is “in”: everything is a product of physical processes.
Sé que no se refiere a estar de moda. Pienso que se refiere a algo así como que la ciencia ya lo comprobó/demostró, pero no se me ocurre el equivalente para ponerlo entre comillas.
¿Alguna idea?


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## sra.mertens

Is there any more context you can give for this sentence? Honestly, I don't understand what the sentence is saying either!


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## Eye in the Sky

Podría ser que la ciencia está "adentro"? (como "inside"?)


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## sra.mertens

posiblemente, pero no es correcto para usar "inside" en vez de "in" en esta frase.....sabes de que ciencia habla?


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## Pond of Flowers

Lo que estoy traduciendo tiene que ver con cómo los materialistas sólo aceptan lo que se ve. El mundo físico, lo comprobable por la ciencia.
Para mí, la clave está en la utilización del artículo "the," porque para referirse a la Ciencia, propiamente dicha, podría haber dicho: science is "in". Sigo pensando que es como: Los resultados (proporcionados por la ciencia) ya están aquí/llegaron...... 
El problema es que no sé qué palabra (corta) en español puede sustituir a "in".......


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## Eye in the Sky

No veo la manera en que la frase con 'in' pudiera traducir como '....ya están aquí/llegaron'. Además lo que sigue después de los dos puntos (everything is a product of physical processes) no concuerda con que ya están aquí/llegaron.


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## LIFETRAVELLER

La palabra que estas buscando es IMPLÍCITA.

For the materialist, the science is “in”: everything is a product of physical processes.

_Para los materialistas, la ciencia está *implícita en todo*: todo es producto de procesos físicos._

Esa sería la traducción mas precisa en mi opinión, pero la palabra todo se repite por lo cual simplemente podría ser:

_Para los materialistas, la ciencia está siempre *implícita*: todo es producto de procesos físicos._

O incluso, si quieres ser mas concreto:

_Para los materialistas, la ciencia está *implícita*: todo es producto de procesos físicos._


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## Eye in the Sky

Sí que tiene sentido, pero cómo lo dedujiste?


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## LIFETRAVELLER

evitap said:


> Sí que tiene sentido, pero cómo lo dedujiste?



Hola,

En primer lugar he tenido algunos talleres filosóficos sobre el tema, y creo que es la definición precisa de algunas corrientes filosóficas materialistas, es decir entiendo el CONTEXTO que no se mencionaba en la pregunta, quizá por eso me pareció muy natural.

En segundo lugar, luego de los 2 puntos viene la frase que debe aclarar, explicar o dar sustento a la primera frase: "everything is a product of physical processes", siguiendo este razonamiento sobre la composición de textos la primera debería expresar algo así como: "la ciencia está implícita en todo"

Mas o menos fue el camino para llegar a mis sugerencias.

Saludos,


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## Mate

Hola:

Aquí un poco más de texto y la fuente (para corroborar lo dicho por LIFETRAVELLER acerca de la importancia del contexto):



> Materialism is a worldview  based on a naturalistic understanding of reality. In materialism, the  natural world is all there is. There is no supernatural—neither spirit  nor soul nor God. There is only “nature”: the cosmic matrix of matter  and energy operating according to physical laws. Reality is what is  objective, observable and reproducible.* For the materialist, the science  is “in”*: everything is a product of physical processes. On the surface  of things, this would seem correct.


http://www.allaboutscience.org/materialism.htm

Saludos


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## cyberpedant

*For the materialist, the science  is “in”*:
"in" = "terminado" "All the necessary scientific research has been done."
":"        "and the conclusion is that"
 everything is a product of physical processes.


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## pops91710

cyberpedant said:


> *For the materialist, the science is “in”*:
> "in" = "terminado" "All the necessary scientific research has been done."
> ":" "and the conclusion is that"
> everything is a product of physical processes.


You hit the nail right on the head, cyberpedant. That is exactly what it means. The verdict is in, the results are in, (and, in this case, all else is *out,* as well. It sort of has a double meaning.)


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## LIFETRAVELLER

For the materialist, the science is “in”: everything is a product of physical processes.

If the meaning is:

_For the materialist, all the necessary scientific research has been done and the conclusion is that everything is product of physical processess._

Then, an appropriate translation of the original sentence would be...


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## cyberpedant

No siendo nativo, estoy tentado de rajarme, pero ni modo:
"Por el materialista todas las investigaciones científicas relevantes han sido terminadas y resulta que todo lo que existe es una consecuencia de procesos materiales."


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## el_ochito

Though I agree with cyberpedant and pops, and that meaning of "in" was my first instinct too, I still remain unconvinced as to why on earth they would use scare quotes around it. If they meant to use it in that way, it is a relatively common meaning, so using scare quotes makes no sense. 

What do you guys think?


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## cyberpedant

I simply interpreted the air quotes as an attempt at vocal emphasis—perhaps a bit far-fetched—but they didn't bother me.


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## pops91710

My try: Para el materialista, los resultados científicos eran definitivas. Es decir: todo es producto de un proceso físico.


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## pops91710

el_ochito said:


> Though I agree with cyberpedant and pops, and that meaning of "in" was my first instinct too, I still remain unconvinced as to why on earth they would use scare quotes around it. If they meant to use it in that way, it is a relatively common meaning, so using scare quotes makes no sense.
> 
> What do you guys think?


 
What are scare quotes? They were just quotes, to denote a colloquialism. It is a common practice in English journalism.


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## LIFETRAVELLER

pops91710 said:


> My try: Para el materialista, los resultados científicos eran definitivas. Es decir: todo es producto de un proceso físico.



_Para el materialista los resultados científicos son definitivos: Todo es producto de procesos físicos._

That is more in the sense I originally tought.

The cyberpedant try: 

"Por el materialista todas las investigaciones científicas relevantes  han sido terminadas y resulta que todo lo que existe es una consecuencia  de procesos materiales."     

It would be:

_Para el materialista toda la investigación científica relevante ha sido realizada y la conclusión es que todo lo existente es producto de procesos físicos._


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## el_ochito

pops:

Scare quotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes

Basically the term refers to the quotes used around a word that is said intending to mean something other than its usual meaning. 

I guess my problem is that saying that something is in, with the same sense as "the jury is in", isn't that much of a colloquialism at all, so I wouldn't expect quotes with it.


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## pops91710

el_ochito said:


> pops:
> 
> Scare quotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scare_quotes
> 
> Basically the term refers to the quotes used around a word that is said intending to mean something other than its usual meaning.
> 
> I guess my problem is that saying that something is in, with the same sense as "the jury is in", isn't that much of a colloquialism at all, so I wouldn't expect quotes with it.


 
You are right, _*the jury is in*_ would not have quotes. Nor would _*the fix is in*_ meaning a process has been rigged behind the scenes and its outcome will not reflect true justice. And now that I think of it, maybe the author used those quotes to allude to that.
Just a thought.


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## Eye in the Sky

el_ochito said:


> Though I agree with cyberpedant and pops, and that meaning of "in" was my first instinct too, I still remain unconvinced as to why on earth they would use scare quotes around it. If they meant to use it in that way, it is a relatively common meaning, so using scare quotes makes no sense.
> 
> What do you guys think?



Maybe because _science_ is not one of the 'set' subjects/nouns that  normally goes with _in_?


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## el_ochito

Re-reading the passage I see that the author also uses the aforementioned scare quotes around "nature" one sentence before, so I'll be content to chalk it up to misuse/abuse of these rather useful but misunderstood punctuation marks that he used them again for the word "in".


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## pops91710

el_ochito said:


> Re-reading the passage I see that the author also uses the aforementioned scare quotes around "nature" one sentence before, so I'll be content to chalk it up to misuse/abuse of these rather useful but misunderstood punctuation marks that he used them again for the word "in".



You could very well be right. I am wondering if the author has an opposite view of the materialists and is using those "scare" quotes to illustrate his skepticism of their assertions.


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## dilema

> Materialism is a worldview based on a naturalistic understanding of reality. In materialism, *the natural world is all there is*. There is no supernatural—neither spirit nor soul nor God. There is only “nature”: the cosmic matrix of matter and energy operating according to physical laws. Reality is what is objective, observable and reproducible.* For the materialist, the science is “in”*: everything is a product of physical processes. On the surface of things, this would seem correct.


Y (teniendo en cuenta lo que he puesto en negrita) ¿no podría ser que quiera decir _Para el materialista, la ciencia está en las mismas_ _cosas/materia_ (redundancia muy oportuna, además )?


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## LIFETRAVELLER

pops91710 said:


> You could very well be right. I am wondering if the author has an opposite view of the materialists and is using those "scare" quotes to illustrate his skepticism of their assertions.



Well. It looks like you got it. Going back to the original text I could pick up these extracts:

_Let’s see: immaterial;  omnipresent; omnipotent; ageless; the ground of all being. You know, the  quantum potential is sounding a lot like the One who made a blazing  appearance in a desert bush ages ago._


*Materialism – A New “Gap-Filler”*_
Is Materialism a new kind of “religious” fundamentalism? _

I understand now why they have so wrong concept about materialism. They are actually talking about the materialism in the 17th and 18th century, so mechanistic, so naturalist.

To say "_all the necessary scientific research has been done_" would outrage the most of the materialist defenders.


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## Pond of Flowers

I agree with pops91710. Debido a que este artículo tiene que ver con "apologetics" el autor está en desacuerdo con esta visión de la ciencia, porque la ciencia que tiene validez para los materialistas es la que está de acuerdo con su ideología. Hay otros científicos que han afirmado cosas contrarias al materialismo, basados en la ciencia y han sido desestimados.
De manera que este "in" puede estar significando al mismo tiempo dos cosas:
Que la ciencia ya tiene su información y que dicha información está "conformada" a su cosmología.
Alguna idea para expresar estos dos sentidos?
Recuerden que esto no se trata de posturas personales, sino de traducción.


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## LIFETRAVELLER

LIFETRAVELLER said:


> Originally Posted by *pops91710. *My try: Para el materialista, los resultados científicos eran definitivas. Es decir: todo es producto de un proceso físico.
> 
> _Para el materialista los resultados científicos son definitivos: Todo es producto de procesos físicos._
> 
> The cyberpedant try:
> 
> "Por el materialista todas las investigaciones científicas relevantes  han sido terminadas y resulta que todo lo que existe es una consecuencia  de procesos materiales."
> 
> It would be:
> 
> _Para el materialista toda la investigación científica relevante ha sido realizada y la conclusión es que todo lo existente es producto de procesos físicos._



In the sense you look for, the options above, would be your closer posibilities until now. I would suggest a change to emphasize the author´s position:

_Para el materialista los resultados científicos *ya han sido definidos*: Todo lo existente es consecuencia de procesos físicos._


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## actualism

Creo que el autor usa comillas alrededor "in" porque "materialism" puede tener doble significado. Como han dicho otros, la palabra puede significar la ciencia fisica. Al mismo tiempo, puede significar que la materialismo esta de moda porque otra definicion por "materialismo" en ingles es el deseo de cosas tangibles.

No soy nativo, asi me excusan si mis oraciones no tienen sentido.

En ingles: I believe that the author uses quotation marks around "in" because "materialism" can have a double meaning. Like others have said, "in" can refer to the actual science of materialism. However, in English, saying that something is "in" means that it's fashionable. Being materialistic can also mean that one desires tangible goods. Therefore, I think it's a play on words.

On another note, how would one say "play on words" in Spanish?


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## LIFETRAVELLER

actualism said:


> Creo que el autor usa comillas alrededor "in" porque "materialism" puede tener doble significado. Como han dicho otros, la palabra puede significar la ciencia fisica. Al mismo tiempo, puede significar que la materialismo esta de moda porque otra definicion por "materialismo" en ingles es el deseo de cosas tangibles.
> 
> No soy nativo, asi me excusan si mis oraciones no tienen sentido.
> 
> En ingles: I believe that the author uses quotation marks around "in" because "materialism" can have a double meaning. Like others have said, "in" can refer to the actual science of materialism. However, in English, saying that something is "in" means that it's fashionable. Being materialistic can also mean that one desires tangible goods. Therefore, I think it's a play on words.
> 
> On another note, how would one say "play on words" in Spanish?



"Play on word" is "juego de palabras".


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## Mate

O sea que una aproximación de lo que está implícito en ese "in" es que la discusión acerca de cómo se explica el mundo natural está terminada, no deja lugar a dudas o especulaciones; todo lo demás está fuera. Y el otro sentido que también tiene ese "in" es que el materialismo está de moda.


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