# Work in Homer



## flaneurparisien

Italian historian Adriano Tilgher (_Homo Faber_, Libreria di Scienze e Lettere, Roma 1929, cap. I), wrote that "according to Homer, the gods hate men and therefore oblige them to work". But he gave no reference.

Can anyone tell me where this opinion can be found in Homer?


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## Perseas

Hi,
I know that gods "hated" men when they commited "Hubris" (arrogance before the gods or people). Then gods became indignant/angry and gave them what was due (Nemesis and Tisis). But I don't get how "work" is meant by Tilgher. I think it would be a very simple word to describe the punishment of the people (if he means that). Odysseus took ten years to return home after the Trojan war as a punishment compelled on him by Poseidon because he had blinded his son, Polyphemus.  Patroclus pursued the Trojans all the way back to the gates of Troy,  defying Achilles' order to break off combat once the Greek ships were saved. He managed to kill many enemies , and hence to become a little god (=hubris). Apollo hated Patroclus then, stunned him, and the hero died.
 This "gods hate men --> men work" confuses me a lot, I confess  .


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## apmoy70

I agree 100% with Perseas on this, with all due respect to the Italian historian, he probably confuses pre-Classical Greek literature with the Hebrew OT; in the latter, work is regarded as a punishment for man's disobedience. In Greek thought however, the concept of disobedience to the gods was non-existent; hubris (arrogance, conceitedness) was what drew god's wrath on men.


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## flaneurparisien

Dear Perseas and apmoy70:

Many thanks for your replies. It is a pity that Tilgher did not bother to reference his source, if indeed there is any source in Homer! If he had tried to do so, he would no doubt have discovered that he was on the wrong track.

I am afraid I cannot agree with apmoy70 that the Hebrew Bible regards work as a punishment for man's disobedience. In Genesis cap. 2, v. 15 (New English Bible) we read that God "took the man [Adam] and put him in the garden of Eden to till and care for it". This was before Adam's disobedience, therefore it could not have been a punishment.

The Jewish tradition in general sets a high value on work, regarding it as a human duty rather than as a divine punishment. God himself is described as a worker: "He rested on the seventh day from all His work" (Gen. cap. 2, v. 2). The Christian tradition has inherited this view, thus St Thomas Aquinas wrote that Adam's work before the fall was "not laborious, but joyful, being the exercise of his natural powers" (Summa Theol. part I, question 102, article 3); the Roman Catholic catechism (#2427) states that "human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation".

Finally (if I am not being too prolix), a memorable remark by the 19th century German economist (he was, I think, a Lutheran Christian) Gustav Schmoller (Grundriss vol. I, pp. 26 and 39): "Man cannot do nothing but eat and make love, he needs other things to occupy his time and his soul...all moral strength has its roots in work". 

Kind regards,

ANGUS SIBLEY (flaneurparisien)


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## apmoy70

I'm afraid we are straying off topic here but I feel I should give my personal view on a couple of points: 


			
				flaneurparisien said:
			
		

> I am afraid I cannot agree with apmoy70 that the Hebrew Bible regards work as a punishment for man's disobedience. In Genesis cap. 2, v. 15 (New English Bible) we read that God "took the man [Adam] and put him in the garden of Eden to till and care for it". This was before Adam's disobedience, therefore it could not have been a punishment.


Of course, but in the same book, God after man's transgression:
«ἐπικατάρατος ἡ γῆ ἐν τοῖς ἔργοις σου· ἐν λύπαις φαγῇ αὐτὴν πάσας τὰς ἡμέρας τῆς ζωῆς σου· 18 ἀκάνθας καὶ τριβόλους ἀνατελεῖ σοι, καὶ φαγῇ τὸν χόρτον τοῦ ἀγροῦ. 19 ἐν ἱδρῶτι τοῦ προσώπου σου φαγῇ τὸν ἄρτον σου, ἕως τοῦ ἀποστρέψαι σε εἰς γὴν γῆν, ἐξ ἧς ἐλήφθης, ὅτι γῆ εἶ καὶ εἰς γῆν ἀπελεύσῃ·» (Septuagint)
"cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; 18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field; 19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return". (KJV)
[Work becomes a penalty inflicted on man]


			
				flaneurparisien said:
			
		

> The Jewish tradition in general sets a high value on work, regarding it as a human duty rather than as a divine punishment. God himself is described as a worker: "He rested on the seventh day from all His work" (Gen. cap. 2, v. 2). The Christian tradition has inherited this view, thus St Thomas Aquinas wrote that Adam's work before the fall was "not laborious, but joyful, being the exercise of his natural powers" (Summa Theol. part I, question 102, article 3); the Roman Catholic catechism (#2427) states that "human work proceeds directly from persons created in the image of God and called to prolong the work of creation".


I'm afraid I cannot follow your thought, I'm neither a Jew nor Roman Catholic nor a Protestant; I neither adhere to the principles of the Jewish Talmud nor Charles Borromeo's Catholic catechism nor Luther's 95 theses. I'm Orthodox Christian and for us God is not a model of morality, or a workaholic. We don't regard God's creation and rest on the seventh day as a model for a 6-day work; God's rest on the seventh day according to the fathers of the East simply prefigures Christ's rest in the tomb on Good Saturday, as we sing on Good Saturday: _This is the blessed Sabbath. This is the day of rest; on which the only-begotten Son of God rested from all His works. He kept the Sabbath in the flesh, through the dispensation of death._
(We sing what we believe, lex orandi-lex credenti).
I apologize for the OT.


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## flaneurparisien

Thank you, Perseas.

I am well aware of the famous passage "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread". But it seems to me that what Moses and St Thomas are telling us is that work is not in itself punitive; it is the laboriousness and unpleasantness of much of our work that is punitive.

We can see a practical example of this in our economies today. More and more people complain of excessive stresses in the workplace, which often lead to illness and sometimes even to suicide. The main reason for this deterioration is that we are deliberately making our economies more and more competitive, with the object of increasing productivity; that is, creating more goods at lower prices from any given amount of work. This means that more consumer goods are available, but also that working life is harsher and nastier, jobs are harder to find, and, of course, our overconsumption of resources increases. We are squeezing ourselves as workers in order to pander to ourselves as consumers.

This is quite simply the sin of greed, and we are being punished for it by suffering worse conditions in our working lives. Work is becoming more laborious and less joyful, to borrow St Thomas's words.

Nevertheless the fact remains that man needs to work in one way or another, and work can - indeed should - be a satisfying activity. Too much idleness is not good; but I reject the puritanical notion that all "dolce far niente" is to be avoided. Note my username. We need to rest and relax too!

Cordialement,

ANGUS SIBLEY (flaneurparisien)


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## ireney

Moderator's note: The current discussion is way off topic. Please use PMs if you want to continue discussing it as further posts on this matter will be deleted.


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