# experience of life or life as experience



## emma1968

Hello everybody,
Prefacing that I consider each event, bad or good it is, as an experience of life and for this being worth one's while to live it
sametimes I wonder:
If someone tells each person before the birth how will be the own life and gives the choise between, live having the knowledge that sooner or later you have to leave and not live 
which do you think would be the choise of most human being ?

the green pill or the red one?

thanks for your opinion and sorry for my English
Emma
Please could native speaker E. also correct what I  wrote
obviously  only if you understand what I meant 
Ciao


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## timebomb

Emma,

If I understand you correctly, you're asking if we knew how our lives were going to be before we were born and if we had this knowledge, would we still choose to live our lives or not live at all.  

If that's the question, I would think most of us would still say yes.  As they say, better to have love and lost than not to have love at all.  It's the same with life, I guess.  

Loh K L


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## emma1968

timebomb said:
			
		

> Emma,
> 
> If I understand you correctly, you're asking if we knew how our lives were going to be before we were born and if we had this knowledge, would we still choose to live our lives or not live at all.
> 
> If that's the question, I would think most of us would still say yes. As they say, better to have love and lost than not to have love at all. It's the same with life, I guess.
> 
> Loh K L


quite understood !!
there is only a little particular to add:" you also know that this life sooner or later will finish and you will return at the beginning condition "
So somebody could wonder himself, why have a condition that surely I'll loose ?
moreover for me it's not the same as the love feeling you are talking about 
because  who say :" better to have love and lost than not to have love at all" surely is people who tried this feeling 
in my example  people haven't tried a certain existence yet 

to answer my question you have forget for a moment  your experience of life 
and concentrate yourself  in the matter to live a different experience never  tried, worst or better could be.
Bye


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## la reine victoria

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> Hello everybody,
> Prefacing Beginning by saying that I consider each event, bad or good as it is, as an experience of life, and this being worth living for, one's while to live itsometimes I wonder:
> 
> If someone tells each person before the birth how will be the own life their own life will be, and gives the choice between, 'Live, having the knowledge that sooner or later you will have to leave, or don't live', and not live  which do you think most people would choose?would be the of most human being ?
> 
> The green pill or the red one?
> 
> thanks for your opinion and sorry for my English
> Emma
> Please could native speaker E. also correct what I wrote
> obviously only if you understand what I meant
> Ciao


 
I understand what you mean Emma. 

It's a very interesting topic you have raised.

I began by asking myself about severe physical or mental disability and whether I would wish to live with either, or both. From what I have heard on this subject, scientific research has been carried out by asking the physically handicapped this very question. As far as I recall, the majority of those who were physically handicapped said that they would still have chosen to be born. 

For many people with severe mental and physical handicap (those with cerebral palsy, for example) they are unable to comprehend or reply to such a question. We can only assume that they are happy to be here, in their own way, since they know of no different existence. We may look on them with compassion and say to ourselves, 'How sad to have to live like that.' But we can't tell how they are feeling within.

I have lived for quite a number of years now so have had my fair share of good times and bad (as we all do). Somehow we manage to get through the bad times and carry on with our lives. The 'bad' memories fade and we mostly remember the good times.

So, personally, if before my birth I was told how my life would be, I would have chosen to be born.


La Reine V


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## nichec

Hi again, Emma 
Okay, let me be the negative one for this once  I don't think I would choose to be born. And it's not because I know for a fact that it's bound to end somehow someday.

Don't get me wrong, I love my life. And I'm fortunate enough to be born healthy in every way. I've fought hard like many of us to lead a nice life, and I've had my ups and downs like most of us. It's been a wonderful journey and I will do everything I can to honor it, but I think if I'd got the choice, my answer would most absolutely be no. (and I'm still young, in case you are wondering...) I think I'd better stop here because it wouldn't seem appropriate if I go into too much details here, just to let you know other thoughts on this subject.


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## emma1968

la reine victoria said:
			
		

> I understand what you mean Emma.
> 
> It's a very interesting topic you have raised.
> 
> I began by asking myself about severe physical or mental disability and whether I would wish to live with either, or both. From what I have heard on this subject, scientific research has been carried out by asking the physically handicapped this very question. As far as I recall, the majority of those who were physically handicapped said that they would still have chosen to be born.
> 
> 
> So, personally, if before my birth I was told how my life would be, I would have chosen to be born.
> 
> 
> La Reine V



Interesting answer Reine Victoria,
so establishing on the fact that most  people who lives  a not healthy existence choose the green pill , and also on the fact that  bad experiences are always removed 
you too choose the green one 
Did I well  understand ?
Emma


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## emma1968

> Okay, let me be the negative one for this once  I don't think I would choose to be born. And it's not because I know for a fact that it's bound to end


Hi again to you too  Nichec,
Let me say you this:
 I know I began this discussion saying : "good or bad as it is, be  worth live the life experience " 
but what  I don't know is, if I say that  only as  my bad  ones  have  never  been  so bad  .....
...and sicerely the Reine's answer made me reflect upon


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## Hakro

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> The green pill or the red one?


Emma, what could have been the other alternative? Just nothing, zero? If you're asked to make a choice between two pills, it means that you must exist.  If you're not to be born, where or what would you be?

I need to know the other alternative before making my choice.


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## la reine victoria

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> Interesting answer Reine Victoria,
> so establishing on the fact that most people who lives a not healthy existence choose the green pill , and also on the fact that bad experiences are always removed
> you too choose the green one
> Did I well understand ?
> Emma


 
Hi Emma,

As you have asked for help with your English writing, I have corrected your sentences for you.  

*So having established the fact that most people, who don't lead a 'normal' life, choose the green pill, and also on the basis that*
*memories of bad experiences fade, you chose the green one too.*


*Did I understand you well?*


Yes, you understood me very well.

I would llike to know your thoughts on this question. Which pill would you choose? 


LRV


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## emma1968

> I need to know the other alternative before making my choice.


[/QUOTE]

Sorry there isn't another alternative 
it's not a real condition
it's only  a  guess  
before birth you  are nothing, not material,  only having the possibility to know how your existence will be, and choose. that's all 
Ciao


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## Hakro

> before birth you are nothing, not material, only having the possibility to know how your existence will be, and choose. that's all



Are you sure? Not material but maybe something else? What about reincarnation?


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## nichec

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> Hi again to you too Nichec,





			
				EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> Let me say you this:
> I know I began this discussion saying : "good or bad as it is, be worth live the life experience "
> but what I don't know is, if I say that only as my bad ones have never been so bad .....
> ...and sicerely the Reine's answer made me reflect upon




Nice talking to you Emma (your English is really quite good to be able to discuss this kind of things)

The problem here is that you can never know what you would choose if you were not in the same situation now. And this is, for me, the beauty of life, the fact that it's mysterious and unpredictable....That's why I didn't make my choice based on "how much I understand/know my life" but "how I feel about life".


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## emma1968

nichec said:
			
		

> Nice talking to you Emma (your English is really quite good to be able to discuss this kind of things)
> 
> The problem here is that you can never know what you would choose if you were not in the same situation now. And this is, for me, the beauty of life, the fact that it's mysterious and unpredictable....That's why I didn't make my choice based on "how much I understand/know my life" but "how I feel about life".


I agree with you Nichec saying that the beauty of life is the fact that it's mysterious but is also the fact that it isn't eternal, that's why you give it a great value.

If I understood you well (and I 'm not sure) you didn't make your choise on the basis of how is your life experience and not on the basis of other people's experience even, but only based on the fact that you would accept nothing planned. wouldn't you?

Reine V.asked me to say my opinion.
How she done, I base my answer on what I see in the world heppens 
I can not do otherwise
the difference is that I choose the red pill, for the simply fact that for the green one I would say too much "only if"
such as....
to have the full legal power to decide to stop my life whenever I want.
to have the free will to change things I can and I want change.
In other words I'd accept a planned life only at my condition 
Perhaps is an unusual opinion but it's my one 
bye Emma.


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## emma1968

> (your English is really quite good to be able to discuss this kind of things)


Hello Nichec,
probably in future you'll change your opinion on my English 
In Italian we say : as not said/as didn't say 
However I accept honored your compliment 
It's the most beautiful one who someone could say to me 
free to believe or don't 
Ciao Emma.


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## nichec

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> I agree with you Nichec saying that the beauty of life is the fact that it's mysterious but is also the fact that it isn't eternal, that's why you give it a great value.





			
				EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> If I understood you well (and I 'm not sure) you didn't make your choise on the basis of how is your life experience and not on the basis of other people's experience even, but only based on the fact that you would accept nothing planned. wouldn't you?
> 
> Reine V.asked me to say my opinion.
> How she done, I base my answer on what I see in the world heppens
> I can not do otherwise
> the difference is that I choose the red pill, for the simply fact that for the green one I would say too much "only if"
> such as....
> to have the full legal power to decide to stop my life whenever I want.
> to have the free will to change things I can and I want change.
> In other words I'd accept a planned life only at my condition
> Perhaps is an unusual opinion but it's my one
> bye Emma.




You are my soul mate, Emma
You understand me perfectly. I don't like planned things or things I can't choose on my own (such as life), but I don't think I want the kind of power to do whatever I want either, there's simply too much responsibility
involved. Besides, we are often "tied up" by the expectations and feelings of people around us in this life. It's so much easier to shake your head and say no when you are asked if you want to be born or not, isn't it? 

Nicole


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## SpiceMan

Hakro said:
			
		

> Are you sure? Not material but maybe something else? What about reincarnation?


Suppose that reincarnation is real, and people could choose. 

Then it would mean that around 6 billion people have chosen to live before being born, don't you think so? It'd mean I've chosen to live, and also you.

More on the original question... I don't really know if you can answer this kind of questions, only make assumptions, which are largely biased on each person's beliefs.


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## Hakro

SpiceMan said:
			
		

> Suppose that reincarnation is real, and people could choose.
> 
> Then it would mean that around 6 billion people have chosen to live before being born, don't you think so? It'd mean I've chosen to live, and also you.
> 
> More on the original question... I don't really know if you can answer this kind of questions, only make assumptions, which are largely biased on each person's beliefs.


 I don't believe in reincarnation. I just wanted to show the same as you: there is no credible answer to this question.


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## emma1968

nichec said:
			
		

> You are my soul mate, Emma
> You understand me perfectly. I don't like planned things or things I can't choose on my own (such as life), but I don't think I want the kind of power to do whatever I want either, there's simply too much responsibility
> involved. Besides, we are often "tied up" by the expectations and feelings of people around us in this life. It's so much easier to shake your head and say no when you are asked if you want to be born or not, isn't it?
> 
> Nicole



Yes Nicole, 
I definitely agree  with you, it's so much easier.
I don't know if this point is a fault  "of my  being" (is it correct say so/do you understand me?)
Usually in the walk of my life I try  choose  the easier  way to  face it
Can this means  that  I'm not a brave person ?
probably yes, But I think it's not the end of the world!!!!!

I say often this last phrase in my walk: " it's not the end of the world"
bye and good sunday Nicole
Emma


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## nichec

Hi, Emma:
There are many kinds of experiences in our lifes. There are moments you are glad you are given the chance to be born and enjoy it, and there are moments you wish everything can end right there. We hope things can get better at moment like that (hope, the most powerful yet destroying things specifically belongs to human beings), but when things do get better we often aren't aware of how blessed we are. To me, there isn't a better/brave way or a worse/cowardly way to face our lifes, there's only your way or my way. As long as you stay true to yourself and live your life as you would like it to be, it eventually is going to be an extraordinary experience that you can't really share with anyone else. I personally am madly in love with Italy not only because of the weather, the food, the view, the language, the people, and the culture, but also because of the way the Italians enjoy every moment of their lifes, the way they see life as a tragically beautiful thing...and that's why I said I love my life even though I would choose not to be born if I had the choice 

Nicole

Edit: I typed this three times for you, Emma...because there seemed to be some technical problems in the forum earlier today


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## maxiogee

I don't believe that one 'could' (even in theory) be given a chance to see how your life turns out - because each moment of one's life is informed by one's past. Our actions depend on knowledge we have gained, our thoughts are based on everything we have learned, and our emotions are formed by the relationships we have developed.

BUT, if we could be shown the sum of our lives, it would be a hard live indeed which would ultimately prove to have not been worth living.
I suffer from depression and about 10 years ago went through a severe bout - so much so that I seriously contemplated suicide. But that was because the future looked bleak and hopeless, not because the past was so dreadful.


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## emma1968

nichec said:
			
		

> Hi, Emma:
> ........ the way they see life as a *tragically beautiful thing*...and that's why I said I love my life even though I would choose not to be born if I had the choice
> 
> Nicole
> 
> 
> 
> Nicole,
> you left me without words.
> I think your last thoughts  are the best conclusion
> bye alla prossima/at the next time
> Emma
Click to expand...


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## emma1968

maxiogee said:
			
		

> 1)I don't believe that one 'could' (even in theory) be given a chance to see how your life turns out - because each moment of one's life is informed by one's past. Our actions depend on knowledge we have gained, our thoughts are based on everything we have learned, and our emotions are formed by the relationships we have developed.
> 
> 2)BUT, if we could be shown the sum of our lives, it would be a hard live indeed which would ultimately prove to have not been worth living.
> I suffer from depression and about 10 years ago went through a severe bout - so much so that I seriously contemplated suicide. But that was because the future looked bleak and hopeless, not because the past was so dreadful.
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Maxiogee,
> For the first point I completely agree with you,
> the discussion is not about believe or not believe on the fact that we could  be given the chance to see how our lives turn out
> and it's not , as someone thought, about believe or not believe in reincarnation either.
> With the second point you got to the center of my matter
> indeed I wanted know different point of view based on our own experience
> or based on what we feel
> thank you very much for yours
> Emma
Click to expand...


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## Devoted-Deserter

Hi out there,
I have created an account just a moment ago, so I can post a message. frankly I think I'm ging to send moe than one . I love the topic you raised. I have been asking my self the same question not too long ago. I also loved the answers, what about reincarnation?
I do not know if you like phyisic or not. 
I have done many researches in this purpose and I have read to many philosophers and physicians. These are the results:
1- If the universe is constantly in move as scientists are saying, there must be a god.
2- The Lord created the universe, physically spoken; he is out of our temporal and spatial context. He cannot be tamed to time, space and even our logic and knowledge. 
3- This Lord is definitely Allah, god of the Muslims, Jews and Christians. 
4- Hence, reincarnation is our end, or began as you like .
In the other hands, think a second about senses and materials. What is matter? According to wordreference J it is “_that which has mass and occupies space; "an atom is the smallest indivisible unit of matter". _Do you believe you are made of a soul and body or just a body?
Most may agree that the body definitely exists, but a soul who knows?
In my point of view, the good question is, does this body exist?
How do we feel the exterior world?
Well, it is electronic signs, when interpreted by the brain the image (world) is clear.
Wanna some logical arguments? Ok.
The brain, before birth has never felt the world outside, how it can then understand these signs?
Or think about dreams, sometimes you feel pain, and its for real don’t you? But the whole dream is in your brain!
Reincarnation?
Keep in mind that the opposite of black is everything not black, and never white.
Hope you Emma to find a way, think like your going in hard times. After wondering, I decided to stop thinking would I or not, and think how I will do so. I tried to learn how to be stoic, but that would cost me my soul. Just think about a better tomorrow Emma.
 
Take care


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## maxiogee

God is everyone's God - not Christian, Jewish or Muslem.
All who acknowledge a creator - in any form of religion, or none - worship the same being.
Reincarnation is eternal? Is that what you are saying Devoted-Deserter? I don't think I can accept that.
As for scientists saying that the universe is "constantly in move" therefore there must be a creator - the scientists can't make up their mind on whether it will grow/expand continuously until it pulls itself apart - or, whether it will shrink back on itself and collapse into a (another?) big bang. Don't look to science to tell you anything about a creator!


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## Devoted-Deserter

Hi Maxiogee,
If you do not believe science then what do you believe?
When I talk about science of course, I mean theories that have been confirmed. 
You give two persons a mathematical problem; the first resolves it, the second fails. The mathematician is obviously the first one. Sciences are the miracle of these last centuries. We would better revise all theories and omit the out-dated ones that go against science. Then start a new intellectual revolution just like the technological one. According to you, which one of the following statement sounds logical?
1- A soul cannot live without a body, provided, we have only seen so!
2- Soul à Brain à Senses à World
The soul is at once, the end of the cognition and perception scheme, and a part of the perceived entity (The World). The soul is the key element! The beginning and the end.
The only thing that exists for sure is that. This is algebra, and algebra is a part from the perceived entity too (Te world) ==> through the logic of the perceived entity we can perceive the perceiver, a complex algebraic equation. Hope it will raise your curiosity to ask and to look for pieces of information likely to match this discussion from more believable and comprehensible sources. 
 
Dear Emma, life is what you think it is. Think better, live better. Too much pain in the past? Or too much pleasure?!! What about the present time? Life is too short, it lasts only a second, enjoy your freedom. There is only one pill.
Take care


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## emma1968

Devoted-Deserter said:
			
		

> Dear Emma, life is what you think it is. Think better, live better. Too much pain in the past? Or too much pleasure?!! What about the present time? Life is too short, it lasts only a second, enjoy your freedom. There is only one pill.
> Take care
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you red my first type I beginning by saying that I consider each life event as an experience and this being worth living for
> Yes it's also true that I wondered:"Do I think this as my bad moments have never been so bad?" I don't know the answer, but surely when the pain, my pain will arrive and sooner or later it definitely arrive I 'll be ready to face it.
> So dear D.D. I'm the first saying that life is what you think it is, what you feel it is and how  you want to see it
> I'm the first thinking better and  trying  to live better  independently  of how many  pills  there are
> 
> Sorry I would say many other thoughts but my English level is not as good as yours
> Bye Emma
Click to expand...


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## maxiogee

Devoted-Deserter said:
			
		

> Hi Maxiogee,
> If you do not believe science then what do you believe?





 I believe that science cannot say what caused "creation".
I believe that science cannot say what will happen to "creation".
I believe that science cannot say what caused "life" to arise.
I believe that science cannot - and will never be able to - create life from inanimate matter.
I believe that the "soul" cannot be defined by science.
I believe that science cannot say what the bounds of the "soul" might be.

I believe that there is a Creator.
I believe that that Creator may, on occasions, interact with his creation.
I believe that that Creator cannot be classified by human concepts such as "just", "loving", "good", etc.
I believe that that Creator's presence can be 'experienced' by humans at times.

(btw, I never said I do not believe science! Re-read what I wrote.)


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