# Persian: داریوش



## Derakhshan

Since the Middle Persian for Darius was _Dārā_, where does the form داریوش come from?


----------



## bearded

Hello
Since my first name is Dario (Italian name corresponding to داریوش  ), I will be particularly interested in reading responses to your question.
I suspect the current Farsi name comes - as a re-introduction - from Latin Darīus, ancient Greek Dareios...
Cf. Dario - transliteration
Transliteration of Darius


----------



## Treaty

It was probably during the Pahlavi dynasty (but might have been earlier in late Qajar's). Some other reintroduced Old Iranian names are کورش، کامبیز and the incorrect خشایار.


----------



## PersoLatin

bearded said:


> Since my first name is Dario (Italian name corresponding to داریوش )


I have a friend, of Italian background in the UK, by that name. A couple of years ago I came across an Italian lady doctor called Daria and that made me wonder if the Italian Dario was indeed inspired by Darīus (??) maybe Daria was also inspired by Darīus (??)


----------



## bearded

PersoLatin said:


> Daria


That is just the feminine form of 'Dario' in Italian. We often make names and nouns feminine by replacing the -o ending (masc.) with -a.
Contrary to  Latin, the current stress falls on the a in both It. names (Dàrio/-a).
And practically almost all Latin names/nouns  with -us and -um endings  (masculine and neuter) now end in -o in Italian. Fem. Latins in -a still remain with -a.  Concerning Darius>Dario, it's a natural derivation, not just 'inspiration' (only the stress position has changed).


----------



## ahvalj

bearded said:


> That is just the feminine form of 'Dario' in Italian. We often make names and nouns feminine by replacing the -o ending (masc.) with -a.
> Contrary to  Latin, the current stress falls on the a in both It. names (Dàrio/-a).
> And practically almost all Latin names/nouns  with -us and -um endings  (masculine and neuter) now end in -o in Italian. Fem. Latins in -a still remain with -a.  Concerning Darius/Dario, it's a natural derivation (only the stress position has changed).


It's somewhat older: Crisante e Daria


----------



## bearded

ahvalj said:


> It's somewhat older: Crisante e Daria


You are right. Latin already applied the same mechanism (masch. - us, fem. -a) to names.


----------



## ahvalj

I suspect it was eventually a Greek derivation. By the way, do average Italians perceive _Mario_ and _Maria_ as a gender pair?


----------



## bearded

ahvalj said:


> Greek derivation


You mean the Farsi name from Dareios..? I read that the Greek form was derived from Old Persian dara-ja-vaush (or similar) = he who posseses the good… , so even the Farsi name could be a direct derivation from that.

Yes, Italians mistakenly perceive Mario and Maria as a gender pair, in spite of the different stress position: Màrio/Marìa  (Marius was a Latin name, Maria from Jewish Mariam, i.e. J.Christ's mother).

Please note that your quotation ''Crisante e Daria'' is already an  Italian translation . It's true that Daria is both Latin and Italian, but the original title of the legend _(passio_) should be _Chrysanthus et Daria _(Chrisanthus from Greek Chrysanthos = Golden flower, stress on y). I mean (jokingly), since Daria is 'older', you should have quoted it in Latin..


----------



## ahvalj

I meant the vestal name _Daria_. Though I couldn't find anything about its spread in the pre-Christian times. On the other hand, a vestal must have been a Latin (or perhaps in the 3rd century this was less strict?), so a daughter of some _Darīus_?


----------



## bearded

ahvalj said:


> a daughter of some _Darīus_?


I really wouldn't know.


----------



## ahvalj

bearded said:


> Please note that your quotation ''Crisante e Daria'' is already an  Italian translation . It's true that Daria is both Latin and Italian, but the original title of the legend _(passio_) should be _Chrysanthus et Daria _(Chrisanthus from Greek Chrysanthos = Golden flower, stress on y). I mean (jokingly), since Daria is 'older', you should have quoted it in Latin..


Alas, the appropriate Latin Wikipedia inscription is still not digitalized… Strangely, there is no Greek page for _Daria:_ that's a very widespread orthodox name (in Russia it was once very popular and is resurrecting in the last decades).


----------



## PersoLatin

bearded said:


> That is just the feminine form of 'Dario' in Italian. We often make names and nouns feminine by replacing the -o ending (masc.) with -a.


Thank you. That's why I said it, so Daria as a female name did not exist before Dario was modelled from _Darīus?_


----------



## PersoLatin

ahvalj said:


> in Russia it was once very popular and is resurrecting in the last decades


Could _Daria_, (in the Russian case only) have been derived from the Persian _daryâ_/_دریا _"sea, large river" and at some point the two names merged into what it is at the present time?


----------



## ahvalj

PersoLatin said:


> Thank you. That's why I said it, so Daria as a female name did not exist before Dario was modelled from _Darīus?_


It is attested already in the 3rd century: Daria


----------



## ahvalj

PersoLatin said:


> Could _Daria_, (in the Russian case only) have been derived from the Persian daryâ/دریا and at some point the two names merged into what it is at the present time?


No, it's a Christian name — see #15. Its Persian counterpart with the final stress is used among Russian muslims (Tartars etc.).


----------



## PersoLatin

ahvalj said:


> It is attested already in the 3rd century: Daria


Yes but that's some 700 to 800 years after _Darīus_ the King was around.


----------



## ahvalj

PersoLatin said:


> Yes but that's some 700 to 800 years after _Darīus_ the King was around.


Yes, and it may have been formed after Darius, just not in Italian as you asked, but much earlier.


----------



## fdb

As Treaty has explained Persian “Dārīyūš” is a modern invention, a hybrid of French or English “Darius” and Old Persian Dārayawahuš.


----------



## PersoLatin

Is کورش modern too and a hybrid of Cyrus and an OP equivalent?


----------



## PersoLatin

ahvalj said:


> Yes, and it may have been formed after Darius, just not in Italian as you asked, but much earlier.


I see, thanks.


----------



## fdb

PersoLatin said:


> Is کورش modern too and a hybrid of Cyrus and an OP equivalent?



 It is actually a good Persian spelling for OP Kūruš, but not, I think, commonly used by Persians until the recent past.


----------



## PersoLatin

I am sure this has been covered in the posts above but I ask it anyway.

The "us" in both Darius & Cyrus, in the English & French version of these names, is actually present in OP Dārayawahuš and  Kūruš, albeit with a sound change š > s, so did the Italians drop the final "s" (hence Dario & Cyro) because they'd assumed it was a Greek addition?


----------



## fdb

The shift of Latin -us to Italian -o is regular, both in common and proper nouns.


----------

