# Welsh: aber



## Margrave

Hello, 

could anybody point me the meaning of the word 'aber' in Welsh?

Aberpergwum
Aber Mynwy
Abergeuenny
Aber Hodni
Aber Corran
Abergavenny

any advice is welcome

rgs

MG


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## AndrasBP

From my Collins-Spurrell Welsh dictionary:

*aber* (plural: aberoedd or ebyr): _n.m._ (noun masculine) - confluence; mouth of river, estuary; brook, stream

see also Aberystwyth and Abertawe, the Welsh name of Swansea


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## Margrave

@AndrasBP thank you very much! By the way, the dictionary dos not indicate the possible etymology of aber? Also, is there any indication of the etymology of the word mynwy? Thank you for your help.


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## AndrasBP

Margrave said:


> the dictionary dos not indicate the possible etymology of aber?


My dictionary doesn't but here's a Wikipedia page on the etymology of Aberdeen, which contains the same element of Brythonic origin.



Margrave said:


> is there any indication of the etymology of the word mynwy?


From the Wiki page on the river Monnow:

_"The River Monnow derives its name from the Welsh (Cymraeg, Myn-wy) and translates to "swift water". (myn means swift, and wy is one of the many Welsh words for water)"_


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## Margrave

You are the best. Thank you very much.

Sorry, in the wiki for Aberdeen, it says the pronounciation of aber could be aiber. Do you know by chance what is the pronunciation of aber in Welsh?


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## entangledbank

It says [e] in the local pronunciation can be 'rendered' with _Ai_, that is written that way to indicate the pronunciation: as in _main_.

The Welsh pronunciation is ['abɛr]. As a word on its own the stressed vowel could be lengthened. (I'm a bit hazy about vowel length in Welsh.)


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## Demiurg

AndrasBP said:


> From my Collins-Spurrell Welsh dictionary:
> 
> *aber* (plural: aberoedd or ebyr): _n.m._ (noun masculine) - confluence; mouth of river, estuary; brook, stream



Interesting! I know the word from place names in Brittany: Aber-Benoît, Aber-Wrac'h, Aber-Ildut (=> Les Abers):


> Les Abers sont des rias ou estuaires qui entaillent la côte.
> ...
> Le nom vient du breton, _aber_, qui désigne un confluent, mais aussi la rencontre d'un estuaire et de la mer. On retrouve le mot en composition dans le nom de la ville de Quimper (ken + aber = Kemper) et d'autres localités ...


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## Welsh_Sion

For Margrave: 

'Aber' from G(eiriadur) P(rifysgol) C(ymru):

welsh-dictionary.ac.uk/gpc/gpc.html
*aber* 
[H. Grn. _aber_, gl. _gurges_, Llyd. Diw. _aber_: < *_ad-ber_-, o’r un gwr. IE. (?*_bher_- ‘dwyn, cludo’ neu *_bher_- ‘berwi, byrlymu’) ag a welir yn _gofer_; petrus yw dosbarthiad rhai o’r enghrau. isod; dichon mai H. Gym. yw _aperou_, gl. _ostia_, _DGVB_ 69] 
_eg.b._ ll. _aberau_, _aberoedd_, _aberydd_, _ebyr_, _aberon_, _aberi_.
*a*  Genau afon ar ei rhediad i’r môr neu i afon arall, cymer; bae, harbwr, porthladd, angorfa:
_river mouth, estuary, confluence; bay, harbour, port, anchorage_. 
9g. _(LlSC) LL_ xlvii, cimer di _aper_ ferrus.
12g. _GLlF_ 16, Ac amgant lliant yn llenwi—_aber_, / Ac amser gosber gosbarth weini.
12g. _GCBM_ i. 53, Lliw goleu tonneu, taen()erw g()enic, / Llan() _ebyr_ a’r llyr lle ny mawrdric.
13g. _C_ 689-11, Bet gur gurth y var … in _aber_ duwir dyar. yny gvna tavue toniar.
14g. _BT (RB)_ 208, ofynhav a oruc Ieuan vrenhin y dyuodyat ef [brenin Ffrainc], a chadw a oruc yr _aberoed_ a’r porthuaeu a diruawr gedernit o wyr aruawc.
14g. _Cy_ vii. 124, Teir prif rac ynys yssyd idi. A seith rac ynys a rugeint [_sic_]. a thri prif _aber_.
15g. _GDLl_ 169, A llu’n bwhwman pob lle / A gyrch cyn torri’r gwarche / I saith brif _aber_ y sydd; / Gwyliwch o’r môr bwygilydd.
15-16g. _TA_ 45, Ni ddaw gwin o’r grâb i safn _aber_, / Na thros heli, ddafn, eithr i’w seler.
1547 _WS_, _Aber_ ne hafyn Hauen.
16-17g. _PhA_ 349, Bermo fawr ai byrm a fydd / Ebron burion _Aberydd_.
1604-7 _TW (Pen 228)_, _Ebyr, Aberoedh_ d.g. _Ostia_.
Dchr. 17g. _RWM_ i. 104, llongav yn ddiav a ddaw i _aberon_.
1632 _D_, _Aber_, Casus fluvij, ostium fluvij, portus.
1722 _Llst 190_, _Aber_ … The mouth of a river, bay, harbour.
c. 1762-79 _W. Williams: P_ 255, Constantinoble … yw un o’r pethau mwya hynod, a rhyfeddol trwy’r holl fyd; yr _Aber_ hyfrydaf yn Europ.
1776 _H. Jones: GC_ 56, Mawr Gannons â’r Gynnau Sy’n tanio, / Ar y Tonnau, a’r _Aberau_ yn ddi baid.
1793 _P_.
1795 _R. Crusoe_ 7, ni a ddaethom … i Yarmouth Road, lle yr angorasom i aros am wynt … yr oedd yr _aber_ (road) yn cael ei chyfrif mor ddiogel a phorth.
Ar lafar, ‘_abar_’ ‘Except in place-names this word is used only by fishermen, etc., when referring to the mouth of the river Saint at Caernarvon’, _WVBD_ 2; ‘_abar_’ ‘Mewn enwau lleoedd yn unig … Pan ddigwydd y gair ar ei ben ei hun, ei ffurf yw _apar_’, _GTN_ 2 (_eb_.).
Digwydd yn gyff. fel elf. mewn e. lleoedd, gw. _ELlSG_ [66].
*b*  Afon, nant, ffrwd, ?llanw; (?gorlif) ffynnon, pwll, ?tarddle (afon); hefyd yn _ffig._:
_river, stream, brook, ?tide; (?overflow of) spring, pool, ?source (of river); also fig._ 
12g. _LL_ 214, bet _aper_ finnaun uanon.
12g. _GCBM_ ii. 331, Vn Mab Mair a bair pyrnhawn—a bore / Ac _aberoedd_ ffrwythlawn.
14g. _GDG³_ 309, Nid rhaid march buan danad, / Neu bont ar _aber_, na bad [i’r gwynt].
c. 1400 _R_ 121431-2, ef awnaeth uch ffraeth traeth trei ac _aber_.
1547 _WS_, _Abe_ [_sic_] ne afon A ryuer.
1567 _TN_ 144a, Yr hwn a gred yno vi … allan oi vru ef y llifa avonydd [:- llifeiriaint _aberoedd_, naint] o ddwfr byw.
1588 _2 Br_ xviii. 17, safasant wrth _aber_ (1988 _2 Br_ xviii. 17, bistyll) y llynn vchaf.
1588 _2 Cr_ xxxii. 30, A’r Hezecia ymma a argaeodd yr _aber_ (1988 _2 Cr_ xxxii. 30, [t]arddiad) vchaf i ddyfroedd Gihon.
1588 _Ecclus_ l. 8, fel lili wrth _aberoedd_ dyfroedd (1988 _Ecclus_ l. 8, ffynnon o ddŵr).
1632 _D_, _Aber_ … Venedotis Torrentem significat quòd in fluvium effundatur.
18g. _WLl (Geir)_, gofer _aber_ ffynnon.
1753 _TR_, _Aber_ … In N. W[ales] it signifies a brook, a stream.
1895 _D. Owen: SP_ 117, Yr oedd yr _aber_ fain a redai efo gwaelod y werglodd hir yn edrych yn fwy gloew nag erioed.
1938 _EANC_ 97, Arferir yr elf. _aber_ yn gyffredin yn y Gogledd yn gyfystyr â ‘ffrwd, afonig’; ac ym Mhenf. ni olyga’n aml ddim mwy na ‘pwll, cilfach ar lan y môr, Saes. creek’.
*c*  (enghrau. _ffig._:
_fig. exx.)_. 
15g. _Cy_ xxiii. 526, Prynwyd im perai nid oedd, / Win a bir yn _aberoedd_ (Robert Leiaf).
15-16g. _TA_ 459, Môr wyd, tu yma rhedynt, / _Aberoedd_ oll heb wraidd ynt.
15-16g. _GLM_ 325, _aber_ i’m grudd, heb rym gwres, / yw glaw wybr o Galabes [marwnad Rhys Nanmor].
16g. _GSH_ 60, Dy draed yn irwaed dan oerion—frathau, / _Aberau_ dafnau a briwiau dyfnion.
Dchr. 17g. _T Ch_ 46, a gwaed gwŷr yn _aberoedd_ / yn llenwi ’i holl ystrydoedd.
1661 _E. Lewis: Drex_ 177, gadawn yr _aberoedd_ bychain a phrysurwn i’r ffynnon.
1853 _W. Rees: AFR_ 347, dagrau yn rhedeg yn _aberoedd_ heilltion.
*Amr.:
†oper*. 
9g. _Hist Brit_ c. 69, _Open_ [_sic_] Linn Liuan.
12g. _LL_ 231, in_oper_ humir.
Gw. hefyd *aberig*. 

My local (North West Wales) pronunctiation:  ['aba​r].​
*****

'Mynwy' from Wici:

Tarddiad yr enw Mynwy - Wicipedia

********

For entangledbank, re: Welsh vowel length. (In the Welsh Academi dictionary).

Morffoleg y Gymraeg | Geiriadur yr Academi 

(Don't be put off by the Welsh words in this link - the article from 'the Bruce' is in English).


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## se16teddy

There are lots of placenames in Britain beginning "Inver" and "Aber". Both elements are of Celtic origin and refer to river confluences, or places where a river meets the sea. My understanding is that they are not exact cognates because etymologically inver refers to flowing* in*, and aber refers to flowing *out*! The word "inver" is originally from Ireland but the Irish language spread to much of Scotland in the first millennium AD; "aber" is from British, the main language of Britain until it was displaced in most of England and parts of Scotland in about the 5th to 8th centuries.  Aber and Inver (placename elements) - Wikipedia


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## Margrave

thank you very much for all information.  You are the best.


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