# tashakor, teşekkür



## badgrammar

I've learned over the past few years that some form of the word "tashakor/tesekkur" is used in several lanuages, including Iranian Farsi, Afghan Farsi and Turkish.  So it would seem to be a common word shared by many people from different - if mutually influenced - languages. 

Is some form of that used in your language(s)?  Is it an old-fashioned or out-of-use word, or a common everyday one?  Who can lay claim to its origins? 

For any forthcoming responses, teshakor, tesekkürler...


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## Hakro

What does it mean?


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## sound shift

It means "thanks".
I mentioned the word to a Jordanian, who implied that a variant of it exists in Arabic, if I remember rightly, but I stand to be corrected by native speakers of that language.


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## badgrammar

From what I found on the web, tashakor is of Arabic origin...  But I'm not sure.  It does seem to be used in many languages.  

ANy info would be welcome as I'd like to find out just how widespread the use of the word is...  I mean, who will understand me if I use it on them?


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## sound shift

"Tesekkur ederim" (= I thank you) is still widely used in Turkey despite competition from the supposedly more Turkic "sag olum".


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## Chazzwozzer

sound shift said:


> "Teşekkür ederim" (= I thank you) is still widely used in Turkey despite competition from the supposedly more Turkic "sağ olun".


A Turkish keyboard help here. 

In fact, it's slightly more common to hear "sağ ol," or a little bit formally "sağ olun," in everyday life. I, personally, dislike "teşekkür," but I sometimes use, especially when my interlocutor is a non-native. They are usually used to teşekkür.

Indeed, "sağ ol" has a Turkic origin. "Sağ," contains g-breve, which we never see in loanwords and it looks perfectly Turkic to me. Olmak, of course is another Turkic word. Its earliest form should be bolmak, I remember reading this form on a very old Turkic saga.


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## badgrammar

I had no idea about "sağ ol", I have always used teşekkür ederim and teşekkürler, which is somewhat long to say, sağ ol does sound more casual.  I am surprised to learn that teşekkür is not used so much.  But I can see where it doesn't look very Turkish - it has two k's in row, for Pete's sake!


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## elroy

The Arabic word for "thanks" is "shukran" which obviously shares its roots with the Turkish word.  The root "sh-k-r" means "to thank" so we have 

_mutashakkir/mutashakkira_: thankful
_shukr_: thanks
_shukran_: thanks (inflected)
_shaakir/shaakira_: he/she who is thankful (thanker)

I take it most Arabs would understand "teşekkür" if it's pronounced slowly and clearly, by analogy with our word.


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## Chazzwozzer

badgrammar said:


> I had no idea about "sağ ol", I have always used teşekkür ederim and teşekkürler, which is somewhat long to say, sağ ol does sound more casual.  I am surprised to learn that teşekkür is not used so much.  But I can see where it doesn't look very Turkish - it has two k's in row, for Pete's sake!


No, teşekkür is still used much, especially on a notice, I might say. However, in daily life, if somebody does something that deserves a "thank" I'd say "sağ ol." And it's what I migh well expect to hear as well.

It literally means "be right," in other words "don't die." Of course, nobody thinks of its meaning when they hear it. They will know that you appreciate them.

If you say "çok sağ ol," it will sound much better. It's always the best way to thank in Turkish. It will make you sound like a native.

It's short enough to be Turkish. You see, all Turkic-originated words are usually monosyllabic: gel, git, yap, sus, vur, öl, ol, bul, bak, at etc.i

*P.S: "Mersi", which you know what it is, is also used in very polite situations.*


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## DrLindenbrock

Teşekkür is definitely of Arabic origin.
It is a different pronunciation of تَشَكُّرٌ / tašakkur, which grammatically speaking is the maSdar of the fifth "wazn" of the root š-k-r.
Of course, whether this is really used in Arabic (and not just in verb conjugation tables in grammar books) I'm not sure, although I suspect it isn't.


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## Honour

elroy said:


> The Arabic word for "thanks" is "shukran" which obviously shares its roots with the Turkish word. The root "sh-k-r" means "to thank" so we have
> 
> _mutashakkir/mutashakkira_: thankful
> _shukr_: thanks
> _shukran_: thanks (inflected)
> _shaakir/shaakira_: he/she who is thankful (thanker)
> 
> I take it most Arabs would understand "teşekkür" if it's pronounced slowly and clearly, by analogy with our word.


İn turkish we have those words too 
müteşekkir (thankful again) just used in extremely polite situations.
şükür (something like "thank god")
şükran (same as Arabic but not commonly used)
şakir (just a name) 

Is the name Shakira (famous pop singer's name) derived from the name Shaakira? Any idea?


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## Chazzwozzer

In addition to Turk,

Although I know what *müteşekkir* means, I've personally never heard using in my life. TDK suggests it's archaic, out-of-use.

*Şükür *is generally used in religious context, as in "Tanrı'ya/Allah'a şükür!" (Thank god!) Otherwise, it's* almost never* used to thank somebody in Turkish.

Never do I hear *şükran *meaning thanks, TDK suggests it's archaic as well.

*Şakir *is not a word used in Turkish, rather an old male name. These days, I don't think anyone dares to give this name to their baby anymore, because it rings funny thing in the mind, probably because of a movie character called Şakir.


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## aslan

I personally use "*sağol"* to thank somebody that I know before.
But If I want to thank somebody ,I don t know well, I definently use "*Teşekkür Ederim"* It sounds more polite. But As Chazzwozzer said  before, Using "sağol" in daily life,  will make you sound like a native.

_"*Müteşekkir*_* olmak"* means "being greatful to somebody"Altough It is not widely used, It can be come across.It show your gratitude,For instance If Somebody saves your life, It can be little bit impolite to say just"Teşekkürler" or "Sağol",You had better say "*Size müteşekkirim*,_Benim hayatımı kurtardınız Ömrümün geri kalanında sizin hizmetinizde olacağım_." means"_I am greatful to you, You saved my life,Thats Why  I will serve you forever_" 

*Şakir;* A male name that I will not  give it to my baby 

By the way, You all learned what to say When you want to thank somebody,But If theh thank you 
Here We are

When sombody thank you with using "sağol" You can easily reply with "sağol" like "Sen de sağol" means "Ok you too".Or You may want to  answer in a more polite way ,with saying "Rica ederim" means "You are welcome"


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## Thomas F. O'Gara

To amplify on what Elroy said, I believe that the original is supposed to be the verbal noun for form 5 of the Arabic root _shakara. _It would imply "showing thanks", and it would be pronounced _tashakkir _(feel free to correct me, Elroy).  Since in both Turkish and Farsi the accent normally occurs on the final syllable, these languages would shift it there, even though the Arabic would stress the middle syllable, if there was any stress at all. Languages like Urdu acquired the word, and the pronunciation, through Farsi.


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## Chazzwozzer

aslan said:


> _"*Müteşekkir*_* olmak"* means "being greatful to somebody"Altough It is not widely used, It can be come across.It show your gratitude,For instance If Somebody saves your life, It can be little bit impolite to say just"Teşekkürler" or "Sağol",You had better say "*Size müteşekkirim*,_Benim hayatımı kurtardınız Ömrümün geri kalanında sizin hizmetinizde olacağım_." means"_I am greatful to you, You saved my life,Thats Why  I will serve you forever_"


Wouldn't "minnettar olmak," a Perso-Arabic word, sound much better in this context? I mean, I doubt if one whom I saved his life tells me that he's müteşekkir, I migh expect to hear he's minnettar._(=grateful) _What do you think? 


aslan said:


> When sombody thank you with using "sağol" You can easily reply with "sağol" like "Sen de sağol" means "Ok you too".Or You may want to  answer in a more polite way ,with saying "Rica ederim" means "You are welcome"


*Bir şey değil* (not at all) or *önemli değil* (not important) are very widely used as well.


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## aslan

Chazzwozzer said:


> Wouldn't "minnettar olmak," a Perso-Arabic word, sound much better in this context? I mean, I doubt if one whom I saved his life tells me that he's müteşekkir, I migh expect to hear he's minnettar._(=grateful) _What do you think?
> 
> *Bir şey değil* (not at all) or *önemli değil* (not important) are very widely used as well.


 
Yes, You changed my mind by showing  "Minnettar olmak" which sounds better. "Müteşekkir olmak"  sounds like a word coming from old Turkish films ( 1960,1970). (It is maybe that much polite, If You even saved my life I would not say it )
Anyway,


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## Chazzwozzer

aslan said:


> "Müteşekkir olmak"  sounds like a word coming from old Turkish films ( 1960,1970)


This is absolutely exactly what I was going to say. 

Oh, and maybe there's another phrase we can use in the sense of müteşekkir olmak, apart from minnettar olmak: *teşekkür borçlu olmak*


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## Whodunit

I have never heard any similar expression in German.


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## elroy

Thomas F. O'Gara said:


> To amplify on what Elroy said, I believe that the original is supposed to be the verbal noun for form 5 of the Arabic root _shakara. _It would imply "showing thanks", and it would be pronounced _tashakkir _(feel free to correct me, Elroy).


 It would be "tashakk*u*r" but you are otherwise right.  I just didn't want to complicate matters by listing words that we don't really use.  "Tashakkur" is an intense "shukr" - something like "(an) elaborate or repeated (display of)thanks."  As I said, this is not used too frequently and would be substituted for by "shukran jaziilan."  I should have probably mentioned it, though, since it's the closest structurally to the Turkish word.


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## SofiaB

Turk said:


> Is the name Shakira (famous pop singer's name) derived from the name Shaakira? Any idea?


Yes the Colombian pop singer's father is Lebanese.


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## SofiaB

IN Uyghurche  texekkur bildurmek    rehmet eytmakh,


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## sound shift

That's interesting: if "teşekkür" exists in Uygur, it must have gone all the way from Arabia to the borders of China.


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## badgrammar

These are all great responses!  Sofia, I am sorry to be ignorant, but where/what is Uyghurche?


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## aslan

badgrammar said:


> These are all great responses! Sofia, I am sorry to be ignorant, but where/what is Uyghurche?


Take a look at these links 
http://www.uygurworld.com/_sgt/f10000.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uyghurs


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## SofiaB

badgrammar said:


> These are all great responses! Sofia, I am sorry to be ignorant, but where/what is Uyghurche?


As Aslan indicates it is the western most province of China, annexed during the cultural revolution and seaking independence as Dogu Turkistan.


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## spakh

BTW Uighur is one of the five official languages of China.


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## badgrammar

spakh said:


> BTW Uighur is one of the five official languages of China.



D'oh!!!


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## spakh

I couldn't get what d'you mean with d'oh.
Uyghur is the official language of Xinjiang region.(in China)


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## badgrammar

I'm sorry, "D'oh!" is a (now) popular expression that comes from the Homer Simpson of The Simpsons television series.

It's an expression that means soething like "How stupid of me!", in this case, how stupid of me not to have known that. 

Sorry for the confusion!


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## Comma Splice!

In a book that I read, "The Kite Runner", by Khaled Hosseini, about Afghanistan before it went bad, to present day, used "Tashakor" often, meaning _thank you_. As far as I understood, the language used was Farsi. Farsi is from Iranian languages and is spoken spoken in Iran (Persia), Afghanistan and Tajikistan and by minorities in Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Azerbaijan, Georgia, Southern Russia, and neighboring countries. Its derived from Persia.... does anyone else know more about this? I'd love to hear it from a native speaker of any of those languages.


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## avok

Did not you read the older posts? yes, it means "thank you"

but in turkish , it is "teşekkürler" ( the plural form) not "teşekkür" (the singular form) because "teşekkür" simply means "thank" whereas teşekkürler is "thanks"


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## Abbassupreme

Persian doesn't use "tashakkor", per se, as a word for "thank you".  We use "tashakkor" to mean "the act of thanking".  Ways that Persian-speakers say "thank you" are as follows (by the way, I'm an Iranian Persian speaker, so these are the words that the speakers of the Tehrani dialect use):

Mersi (from French's "merci")

Kheyli mamnun ("kheyli" means "very", mamnun means "thankful".  I'm pretty sure that "mamnun" was gotten from Arabic.)

Mamnunam (I'm thankful.)

moteshakkeram ("I'm thankful."  From the Arabic root word "shokr", which is ALSO used, though rarely, to mean "thank you", though I'm fairly certain it means "thankfulness") Normally pronounced "mochakkeram" in colloquial Persian.

Sepâsgozâram (Pure Persian word for "I'm thankful.") or, more commonly, "Az shomâ sepâsgozâram." ("I'm thankful of you.")
The apparently-Persian word sepâs is apparently equal to the Arabic word "shokr".

I've heard that our Tajik brothers and sisters use "sepâs" in their thank-yous, but I'm not absolutely certain, yet.


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## Honour

Abbassupreme said:


> Kheyli mamnun ("kheyli" means "very", mamnun means "thankful". I'm pretty sure that "mamnun" was gotten from Arabic.)
> 
> Mamnunam (I'm thankful.)
> 
> moteshakkeram ("I'm thankful." From the Arabic root word "shokr", which is ALSO used, though rarely, to mean "thank you", though I'm fairly certain it means "thankfulness") Normally pronounced "mochakkeram" in colloquial Persian.


*Kheyli mamnun* probably means *hayli memnun* (rather content) in Turkish.
*Moteshakkeram* is also found in Turkish as *müteşekkirim*. By the way, i have noticed that the *-am* suffix at the end of the words. What do they signify? I am asking because *-im* suffix is the suffix of first person singular in verb conjugations and possesive adjectives and pronouns.


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## Abbassupreme

It's an abbreviation of "moteshakker hastam/mamnum hastam".  Normally, -am signifies possession of something.  Exempli gratia: Ketaabam= My book.

In THIS case, the -am works very much like English's "I'm".  Instead of saying "I am", we say "I'm"

Moteshakker hastam= I am thankful.
Moteshakkeram= I'm thankful.

-im would be the "we" form in Persian:
Mamnunim= We're thankful.
Mamnun hastim= We are thankful.


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## Alijsh

As for Persian and Arabic we have this related topic: Persian/Arabic: expressing gratitude


Honour said:


> *Kheyli mamnun* probably means *hayli memnun* (rather content) in Turkish.
> *Moteshakkeram* is also found in Turkish as *müteşekkirim*. By the way, i have noticed that the *-am* suffix at the end of the words. What do they signify? I am asking because *-im* suffix is the suffix of first person singular in verb conjugations and possesive adjectives and pronouns.


Take a look at this thread: Persian/Arabic/Turkish: Grammatical similarities


Abbassupreme said:


> Persian doesn't use "tashakkor", per se, as a word for "thank you". We use "tashakkor" to mean "the act of thanking".


You're right Abbassupreme. In Persian, *tašakkor* means *thanking* but it's also used to mean *thank you* however it's contraction of *tašakkor mikonam* (similar to Turkish:* teşekkür ederim*).


Abbassupreme said:


> Ways that Persian-speakers say "thank you" are as follows:
> 
> Mersi, Kheyli mamnun, Mamnunam, moteshakkeram (Normally pronounced "mochakkeram" in colloquial Persian), Sepâsgozâram, sepâs


 
Thanks. We laso have: *kheyli mamnunam*, *[kheyli]* *mochchakker* (from: *[kheyli]* *mochchakkeram*). Among all of these expressions, *kheyli mamnun* and *mersi* are used commonly however *mersi* is not appropriate for a formal conversation as in TV news. 


Abbassupreme said:


> The apparently-Persian word sepâs is apparently equal to the Arabic word "shokr".


No. sepâs means "thank you". It was used in middle Persian. And I think it's cognate with Russsian spasiba.


Abbassupreme said:


> I've heard that our Tajik brothers and sisters use "sepâs" in their thank-yous, but I'm not absolutely certain, yet.


Yes, and also dear Kurds.


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## Lugubert

Speaking Hindi/Urdu, you often just smile instead of voicing a "thanks". If you want a word for it, there's in Hindi the Sanskrit influenced "dhanyavaad", primarily for Hindus - and the Urdu "*shukriya*", which Muslims delight in hearing.

For example, use smile/dhanyavaad (sounds like dhaniwaar to my ears) in New Delhi, but do go for *shukriya* in Old Delhi! You'll be surprised at the much warmer response, especially if you additionally use Muslim greetings instead of the ubiquitous "Namaste".


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## azmondeo

badgrammar said:


> I've learned over the past few years that some form of the word "tashakor/tesekkur" is used in several lanuages, including Iranian Farsi, Afghan Farsi and Turkish.  So it would seem to be a common word shared by many people from different - if mutually influenced - languages.
> 
> Is some form of that used in your language(s)?  Is it an old-fashioned or out-of-use word, or a common everyday one?  Who can lay claim to its origins?
> 
> For any forthcoming responses, teshakor, tesekkürler...



*TashAKkur* (تَشَكُّرٌ) is an arabic word is also used in different other languages and nations that are influenced by Islam.

*The root word* - *shukr* /_sh-k-r_/ (شكر) - offers a sense of _gratitude, appreciation._
Roots that form transitive verbs in Form I remain transitive in Form II *(sh-k-k-r)*, but also create causative or intensified actions. For example, the root /d-r-s/, which offers a sense of learning, becomes "darasa," which means "to study," in First Form. In the Second Form, "darrasa" is derived from the root /d-r- s/ and means "to teach," which is a more causative action. Instead of a student studying to learn, a teacher teaches and causes a student to learn. An example of an intensified action is the root /ž-r-H/ for which the First Form "žaraHa" means "to wound" while conjugated into the Second Form "žarraHa" means "to inflict many wounds." The action of causing injuring is intensified in Form II.

So, Form II *shukkar* /_sh-k-k-r_/ - to thank someone very much, to appreciate a lot

*Tashakkur* /_t-sh-k-k-r_/(تَشَكُّرٌ) - Form V of the Arabic verb is formed by adding the prefix /ta-/ to Form II (sh-k-k-r). Adding the prefix /ta-/ to Form II  creates a reflexive verb in the Form V that "expresses the state into 'which the object of the action denoted by the Second Form is brought by that action, as its effect or result.'" The Fifth Form is similar to the passive voice in English but more comparable to the reflexive form in Romance languages like Spanish and French. For example, the root /k-s-r/ becomes "takassara" meaning "to get broken". A few verbs in Form V are not obviously reflexive but are reflexive nonetheless because the direct objects of these kinds of verbs are actually the subjects. An example is "taHaqqaqa," which literally means "to ascertain" but is actually reflexive because "something is ascertained."

As well as reflexive verbs, Form V also forms verbs that express "an act is done to a person, or a state produced in him by another person or by himself", both of which render the subject submissive. For example, the verb "ta'allama" meaning "to become learned" indicates that learning occurred for one because of the teaching by another. Similarly, some verbs in Form V show "the acquiring of an attribute, complaining, the avoidance of an action, or repetition". "Takabbara" meaning "to become haughty," indicate the acquisition of new characteristics.," indicate the acquisition of new characteristics.

So, *Tashakkur* /_t-sh-k-k-r_/(تَشَكُّرٌ) - to get (make) someone appreciated (thanked) a lot (very much), or just, to appreciate someone a lot.

*Mutashakkir* - the one who gets (makes) someone appreciated (thanked) a lot (very much), or just, the one who is very much thankful (grateful)


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## plop.yes

> I've heard that our Tajik brothers and sisters use "sepâs" in their thank-yous, but I'm not absolutely certain, yet.



In Tajik (a Persian dialect), *ташаккур *(*tashakkur*) means "thanks," or "thank you."

I haven't encountered any words related to *sepâs*.

It's typically seen as a more literary or formal way of saying thanks - the far more common being *раҳмат *(*rahmat*).

Sometimes, Tajiks say "many thanks" by adding *зиёд *(*ziyod*), making the phrase *ташаккури зиёд *(*tashakkuri ziyod*).

Due to its relative isolation in the mountains, Tajik has retained a number of older aspects of Persian. I'm not sure how this would affect the use of *tashakkur/sepâs*.



> That's interesting: if "teşekkür" exists in Uygur, it must have gone all the way from Arabia to the borders of China.



Tajikistan has a considerable border on its east with China. I ate at an Uyghur restaurant while in Tajikistan! I'd reckon there's a nice amount of historical overlap between Tajik Persian and Uyghurche:



> IN Uyghurche  texekkur bildurmek rehmet eytmakh



I see connections between *texekkur - tashakkur *and *rehmet - rahmat*.


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## rayloom

In Hijazi Arabic, the imperative of tashakkur is used, along with the imperative of form I (G-stem), to tell someone to thank someone. 
تشكّر منه.


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