# Middle names



## Chili

Is middle name a peculiarity of north american people? Or it belongs to british as well? And what does the middle name represent exactly? Is it the mother's second name (surname)?

There's still another question. In British English we have "name" and "surname". In American English we have "first name", "middle name" and "second name". Is these scheme correct?

Thank you for your help.


----------



## garryknight

It's quite common in Britain to have a middle name. And it doesn't represent anything in particular, but it could be, for example, the father's first name or an uncle's or grandfather's, or just a name that the parents like.

In BE and in AE you have a first name and a surname. Your surname is also your second, or third, or fourth, or even fifth (or more) name, depending on how many forenames you have. And the first name is often called a 'Christian name' even in non-religious families.


----------



## cuchuflete

Hi Chili,
Like most good questions yours does not have a simple answer.  I fully agree with everything Garry has said.  Yet there may be more to it.  In AE, (I don't know about BE) it is possible to have more than a single surname.  My children have two...their mother's last name and my last name.

cheers,
Cuchuflete


----------



## Robert Bennie

G'day Chili
Welcome. In Australia we have a first name which is also called a christian name or a given name. Then we have a middle name. Then we have a surname which is also called a family name.

The convention has been for the wife to take the name of the husband at marriage but this is changing with sometimes the wife keeping her surname and the children having a combined surname of Smith-Jones for example and sometimes the wife taking the additional family name of her husband and becoming Mrs. Smith-Jones.

In the past the given name was often that of a grand parent.

The middle name serves two purposes in Australia. It allows for an additional relative to be honoured in the naming of the child and the hope that the child would grow up to something like the two honoured ancestors. The second reason is to allow for the first name to be that of an honoured relative or similar even though that name is not the name of a Saint so then the child can be given the middle name of a Saint to be Christened.

Enjoy your journey

Robert


----------



## te gato

Hey Chili;
Here in Canada you can have as many names as you wish..or as your parents wish to name you..
I personally have two sets of names..being adopted..
For example:
My 'pre-adoption' name..Sandra-Marie Schultz..(babies were named just incase they died later..and then they could be buried with a name)
My adopted name...
Karen (given name) 
Johanna (my middle name..my mothers name..her grandmothers name..and so on) 
Veronica..(My Conformation name)
Westhaver..(My fathers last name)
Whidden...(my x's Name)
To change any of my names..other than my X's..It is very expensive here...you can change your name to what ever you want..if you want to pay the $550.00...
te gato


----------



## JLanguage

My experience has been that surname is usually used in more formal contexts in American English, while "last name" is ususally used in more relaxed contexts. So my version of the order is: First name, Middle Name, Last Name.


----------



## Monkling

I would guess that middle names not simply an American thing. My grandparents were all born in Italy and they gave all their children middle names. I don't know if there was a purpose to the middle name in my mom's case but on the paternal side - my grandparents chose very American sounding names as first names for their sons & gave them their middle names after relatives (father & grandfather).

I gave my kids middle names because I always felt cheated that I don't have one.


----------



## Lancel0t

Chili said:
			
		

> Re: Middle name: USA only?



Definitely not. Here in our country we also have our Middle names. The middle name is the mother's maiden last name.


----------



## mjscott

My dad was named when he was baptized in a predominantly Portuguese Roman Catholic church. When he was confirmed (went to cathechism made his own choice to become a Catholic, took first holy communion) he received a second name--a name from his godparents. His last name has been the same all his life.

The name you speak first is called the first name.
My dad used his first and last name up until his confirmation.
After his church confirmation, his confirmed name was put between his first and last names, and he then used all three names for the rest of his life.


----------



## te gato

mjscott said:
			
		

> My dad was named when he was baptized in a predominantly Portuguese Roman Catholic church. When he was confirmed (went to cathechism made his own choice to become a Catholic, took first holy communion) he received a second name--a name from his godparents. His last name has been the same all his life.
> 
> The name you speak first is called the first name.
> My dad used his first and last name up until his confirmation.
> After his church confirmation, his confirmed name was put between his first and last names, and he then used all three names for the rest of his life.


mjscott;
Yes but when you are like me..Auhhhhh five names are way too long...
Makes monagraming towels very hard.. 
te gato


----------



## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> mjscott;
> Yes but when you are like me..Auhhhhh five names are way too long...
> Makes monagraming towels very hard..
> te gato


For humor but also serious:

My name is Gary Duane Lloyd.

When we were in college, it became a joke to use our first and middle names hyphened together, because we were in Tallahassee Florida.

My best friend (tragically dead now) always called me "Gary-Duane" when we were joking. And I always called him "Michael-J" (short for Joseph), same reason. 

I'm not sure if names like "Billy-Joe" are truly the connection of first and middle names or compound "first names". Does anyone know?

Gaer


----------



## te gato

gaer said:
			
		

> For humor but also serious:
> 
> My name is Gary Duane Lloyd.
> 
> When we were in college, it became a joke to use our first and middle names hyphened together, because we were in Tallahassee Florida.
> 
> My best friend (tragically dead now) always called me "Gary-Duane" when we were joking. And I always called him "Michael-J" (short for Joseph), same reason.
> 
> I'm not sure if names like "Billy-Joe" are truly the connection of first and middle names or compound "first names". Does anyone know?
> 
> Gaer


Hey gaer..aka..Gary;
I think they are compound 'first names'...
Take my birth name for example..Sandra-Marie..(first)..Anne..(middle)..
I don't know if my birth mother just could not make up her mind on which name she liked the best..or if it had special meaning to her...I might never know..

te gato


----------



## gaer

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey gaer..aka..Gary;
> I think they are compound 'first names'...
> Take my birth name for example..Sandra-Marie..(first)..Anne..(middle)..
> I don't know if my birth mother just could not make up her mind on which name she liked the best..or if it had special meaning to her...I might never know..
> 
> te gato


Can you have a compound first name AND a second name? I'm sure you can, but it seems a bit redundant. 

Gaer


----------



## te gato

gaer said:
			
		

> Can you have a compound first name AND a second name? I'm sure you can, but it seems a bit redundant.
> 
> Gaer


Auhmmmm...Well I got one...Not that I go by them...
te gato


----------



## lainyn

Just a side note,

Where you all come from, is Billy-Joe a girl's name, or a boy's name? Because I clearly remember a few girls from high school with that name, and no boys whatsoever! How bizarre. 

I only have 1 middle name, but I know tonnes of people who have 2 or more - most of those people have at least one generic middle name that comes from Catholicism or other (IMHO) overused ones like: Anne, Elizabeth, Marie, Jane, etc..(John, Michael, Joseph, David, etc). 

~Lainyn


----------



## belén

Here in Spain it is very common to have 2 names, some people use them both because they sound so natural together:
José María, Juan José, Juan Antonio... and others only use their first name, even though they have two names.

Where I come from, there is a very strong tradition of naming your baby with your grandparent name, my mum was really young when I was born and she didn't have the energy to fight traditions, so I inherited by grandma's name, which I hated. My mum didn't like it either, so she gave me Belén as a second name. So, when I was already an adult, I got rid of my first name. You have to go through some paperwork and go to the Ministry of Justice offices with two witnesses and sign the papers in front of the judge etc, it was an interesting experience, because the clerk had to get hold of the old books where I was registered in my birth year (its pages were yellow already!) and correct my name there (literally, with white out  ) - oh and at least it is free to do it here!!


----------



## NTFS

Chili said:
			
		

> Is middle name a peculiarity of north american people? Or it belongs to british as well? And what does the middle name represent exactly? Is it the mother's second name (surname)?
> 
> There's still another question. In British English we have "name" and "surname". In American English we have "first name", "middle name" and "second name". Is these scheme correct?
> 
> Thank you for your help.


 

I got confused... are you talking about middle name as what lancelot have said, the mother's maiden last name or a second name? 




			
				Lancel0t said:
			
		

> Definitely not. Here in our country we also have our Middle names. The middle name is the mother's maiden last name.


 
Both are common here in the Philippines. 
I have a niece named Isabella Therese(both given name) Ramos(her middle name,my sister-in-law's maiden last name) Dungca(her last name also my brother's last name)

we also have nicknames here... mine is "dey", my niece's is "baby darling" because she's the only girl among my 8 nephews. Lancel0t is "Jim"  

do you also have this nickname thingy??


----------



## Chili

NTFS said:
			
		

> I got confused... are you talking about middle name as what lancelot have said, the mother's maiden last name or a second name?



Sorry, my first post was incorrect.

When I wrote "second name", in fact I meant "last name" or "surname".

My question was: is the middle name the mother's maiden surname? For example, let's consider John Lee Hooker; Lee is his mother's last name? Or Lee is a second christian name that was given to him by his parents?


----------



## Phryne

Chili said:
			
		

> Sorry, my first post was incorrect.
> 
> When I wrote "second name", in fact I meant "last name" or "surname".
> 
> My question was: is the middle name the mother's maiden surname? For example, let's consider John Lee Hooker; Lee is his mother's last name? Or Lee is a second christian name that was given to him by his parents?


 
The middle name could be anything.

John is born from Lisa Marie Farley and John F. O'Donnell. The parents decide to call him John Farley O'Donnel, so Farley becomes his middle name, or he can be named John David O'Donnel-Farley, in which case O'Donnel-Farley is the baby's last name and David is the middle name. I don't think people have strict rules about it.


However, my birth name is María José and I normally say that Maria is my name and J. is my middle initial. However, considering te gato's Sandra-Marie, maybe I should be María José altogether as my first name. What do you think???


----------



## NTFS

Chili said:
			
		

> Sorry, my first post was incorrect.
> 
> When I wrote "second name", in fact I meant "last name" or "surname".
> 
> My question was: is the middle name the mother's maiden surname? For example, let's consider John Lee Hooker; Lee is his mother's last name? Or Lee is a second christian name that was given to him by his parents?


 
oh i see... i'm not sure about your example.. it could be his middle name or a second given name. however here in the Philippines middle name is the mother's maiden name and instead of writing the middle name we use just the initial (M.I.) middle initial. for your example it could be John L. Hooker if Lee is his middle name but if Lee is his 2nd given it should be written as John Lee Hooker.

i just want to ask is this pattern universal "Given name M.I. Last name" or "Last name, Given name, M.I." or you just omit the M.I.?

thanks!

NTFS


----------



## gotitadeleche

lainyn said:
			
		

> Just a side note,
> 
> Where you all come from, is Billy-Joe a girl's name, or a boy's name? Because I clearly remember a few girls from high school with that name, and no boys whatsoever! How bizarre.
> 
> I only have 1 middle name, but I know tonnes of people who have 2 or more - most of those people have at least one generic middle name that comes from Catholicism or other (IMHO) overused ones like: Anne, Elizabeth, Marie, Jane, etc..(John, Michael, Joseph, David, etc).
> 
> ~Lainyn



In the South of the US, it is not unusual to use two given names, but they are not hyphenated. Billy Joe could be a boy or girl, but if a girl Billy will be spelled Billie and Joe will usually be spelled Jo. Other examples might be Betty Sue, Billy Don, Billie Sue (girl), etc.


----------



## te gato

Phryne said:
			
		

> However, my birth name is María José and I normally say that Maria is my name and J. is my middle initial. However, considering te gato's Sandra-Marie, maybe I should be María José altogether as my first name. What do you think???


Hey Phryne;
I think names are a personal preference...You use what you feel comfortable using...the only time it realy matters is in 'Offical' documents...
I am an odd case.. I have two sets of names...My 'birth' names..and my 'given' names by my adoptive parents...usually this does not happen..your given names are then entered into the 'system' and that is what you go by...but when my names were entered..there was a ooppss...and the names were listed separately..so therefore I am two people..walking around in one body..ohhh the legal hassles 



			
				NTFS said:
			
		

> we also have nicknames here... mine is "dey", my niece's is "baby darling" because she's the only girl among my 8 nephews. Lancel0t is "Jim"
> 
> do you also have this nickname thingy??


 
Oh..yes we do..sometimes we have more than one...mine is te gato...and toad  (from my dad)..and so on..
My sons is Pequeno...
It depends on what that person wishes to call you...
HEY YOU is always a good one.. 

te gato


----------



## Phryne

te gato said:
			
		

> Hey Phryne;





			
				te gato said:
			
		

> I think names are a personal preference...You use what you feel comfortable using...the only time it realy matters is in 'Offical' documents...




Hola, te gato! 

Well, my name is María José, as most papers say. My problem began when I became an "immigrant", since people in the US can't get the José part of it for it being "male", and can't see why if they are two different names they should behave as one. So, to make my life easier, I tell people to call me just Maria. Deep inside, this never felt right, so now I'm trying to reinstitute the whole name.






> I am an odd case.. I have two sets of names...My 'birth' names..and my 'given' names by my adoptive parents...usually this does not happen..your given names are then entered into the 'system' and that is what you go by...but when my names were entered..there was a ooppss...and the names were listed separately..so therefore I am two people..walking around in one body..ohhh the legal hassles





> te gato




As you said, those are just legalities. You are who you are, and I’ll bet you'll always feel the name that you parents chose for you. That’s Karen, right?


----------



## te gato

Phryne said:
			
		

> Hola, te gato!
> 
> Well, my name is María José, as most papers say. My problem began when I became an "immigrant", since people in the US can't get the José part of it for it being "male", and can't see why if they are two different names they should behave as one. So, to make my life easier, I tell people to call me just Maria. Deep inside, this never felt right, so now I'm trying to reinstitute the whole name.
> As you said, those are just legalities. You are who you are, and I’ll bet you'll always feel the name that you parents chose for you. That’s Karen, right?


Hola Phryne..Maria Jose;
Then..go with your feelings..what feels right to *you *...do not worry what others think..so you might have to do a little explaining..but in the end you will feel better...
te gato..Karen


----------



## massie1

Just to add another twist - In French Canada, middle names are seldom given to children and even less often used, if anytime at all, unless, of course, they are given names like Jean-François, or Marie-Thérèse, etc...  The practice of using middle names or initials appears to be mostly anglo-saxon.


----------



## Outsider

It depends on what you mean by middle name. In Portugal, most people have four names. Surely, one or two of them are in the middle.


----------



## latingem

for me middle name would be my second name. in venezuela, you seldom come across anyone without a second name as well as a second surname. of course, this second name is never used by anyone, except by your parents when they're angry with you or by the members of your family.  all my cousins and uncles call me by both names.girls called maría are the only ones called by both names by everyone, as in maría elena, maría alejandra, maría inés... cheers!


----------



## DDT

I don't know whether that's so common in Italy...personally I have three first names (and a double family name, eheh)

DDT


----------



## badgrammar

In France it is not usual but not so uncommon to have three first names, or two middle names, or whatever you want to call it.  I'm American and have two middle names, and my French husband also has two, and our children also have two.  Family names (though not parents' names) are one part of the two middle names in each case.

I like the "options" having, basically, three first names to choose from, in case, the first choice does not fit the child...


----------



## sarcie

belen said:


> Where I come from, there is a very strong tradition of naming your baby with your grandparent name, my mum was really young when I was born and she didn't have the energy to fight traditions, so I inherited by grandma's name, which I hated.



When I was born, there was a strong inclination within the Catholic Church (or at least, in Claddagh parish!) to choose saint's names for your children. My parents wanted to call me Sarah, with middle name Frances for my grandmother. The priest kicked up a fuss about Sarah and refused to refer to me as such for the entire ceremony - he then (in consultation with my ultra-conservative and proud grandmother) took my mother's name and tagged it on to Frances and referred to me as "Frances Mary". So, as far as God is concerned, my name is Frances Mary - the rest of the world, the registry of births, the electoral register, etc. know me as Sarah Frances Mary  (also a bit of a mouthful on those monogrammed towels...)
Most Irish people I know have one middle name, although two is not unheard of. Many also continue to use the name they chose at their Confirmation - which, again, is generally a saint's name.


----------



## Pedro y La Torre

cuchuflete said:


> Like most good questions yours does not have a simple answer.  I fully agree with everything Garry has said.  Yet there may be more to it.  In AE, (I don't know about BE) it is possible to have more than a single surname.  My children have two...their mother's last name and my last name.



This confuses me. BE and AE are different in some vocabulary and spelling but surely not THAT different. Of course a surname or last name can be combined or hyphenated, in any English speaking country.

Or am I missing something


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

latingem said:


> For me middle name would be my second name. In venezuela, you seldom come across anyone without a second name as well as a second surname. Of course, this second name is never used by anyone, *except by your parents when they're angry with you or by the members of your family*. All my cousins and uncles call me by both names. Girls called María are the only ones called by both names by everyone, as in María Elena, María Alejandra, María Inés... Cheers!


Yeah, that's pretty much it. But, there are exceptions.

I have only one given name, along with my two surnames (my father's surname & my mother's surname). One of my brothers has two given names (first and second name, as we call them here), and my youngest brother has only one.

Catholicism is the official religion here, so most mothers name their children after a saint (ergo the middle name). Most of those who are not catholic but believe in the Bible, give their children a biblical name. Some others just pick a name they like, regardless of their religious beliefs (or disbeliefs  )

I think that whole thing of giving your child more than one name is unnecessary, not to mention confusing. My fiance, for example. He has two given names, and his friends and family call him by his middle (second) name, but his coworkers & university partners call him by his first name. It was a lot of fun when I called him home and asked for him by his first name (which is very similar to his father's), or by his middle name (though I never assimilated it, I don't like that name at all). But don't worry about me, guys, I just try my best to call him to his cellphone, and the confussion's over. 

In my opinion, middle names are only useful (in Venezuela) when your mother is really angry with you, or when your siblings want to embarrass you in front of your friends...


----------



## Jigoku no Tenshi

Venezuelan_sweetie said:


> Yeah, that's pretty much it. But, there are exceptions.
> 
> I have only one given name, along with my two surnames (my father's surname & my mother's surname). One of my brothers has two given names (first and second name, as we call them here), and my youngest brother has only one.
> 
> Catholicism is the official religion here, so most mothers name their children after a saint (ergo the middle name). Most of those who are not catholic but believe in the Bible, give their children a biblical name. Some others just pick a name they like, regardless of their religious beliefs (or disbeliefs  )
> 
> I think that whole thing of giving your child more than one name is unnecessary, not to mention confusing. My fiance, for example. He has two given names, and his friends and family call him by his middle (second) name, but his coworkers & university partners call him by his first name. It was a lot of fun when I called him home and asked for him by his first name (which is very similar to his father's), or by his middle name (though I never assimilated it, I don't like that name at all). But don't worry about me, guys, I just try my best to call him to his cellphone, and the confussion's over.
> 
> In my opinion, middle names are only useful (in Venezuela) when your mother is really angry with you, or when your siblings want to embarrass you in front of your friends...


 
Hello everybody!

I'm from Venezuela too, and it's true sometimes it's cofusing, My father has two names, most of his college classmates and coworkers call him by the first name, but the family and friends call him by his middle name, as matter of fact I never asked my grandmother why they don't use the first one, since there's no one else with that name. There are people who dislike one of the names and use the other one, I don't complain about that but woman when they get married can use also the husband last name but not like I've seen Americans do, here we attach the last name and put it in the Last Last name, this way

María Josefina Perez González, if she marries Juan José Martínez Vazquez, all of them are the most common names, She could be Mrs María Josefina Perez González de Martinez. 

I remember looking for a teacher in college who told me her name and last name, but she gave me the husband last name, so it was impossible to find her because the all of the schedules had her last name before she got married, but even with all those troubbles and things like that I find useful the use of all of the five names we can get, because when I was in highschool I had ten classmates with my name and two of them had the same last name, so thank God we have a middle name and a second last name, because it would have been a mess if the teacher said "José!" and ten of us would answer "Yes, Teacher" or "Gonzalez" five of them answer would answer "Yes, Teacher" and then the teacher said "I mean José González" and then all of us would said "which one", so using four and sometimes five names can be confusing, but it also have the advantange that unless you find someone whose parents had the same last names as yours and decided to call their son/daughter just like you, you won't have any troubble because the teacher gave you tha grades that someone else got, and things like that but even with four and five names it has happened!


----------



## Venezuelan_sweetie

Jigoku no Tenshi said:


> (...) using four and sometimes five names can be confusing, but it also have the advantange that unless you find someone whose parents had the same last names as yours and decided to call their son/daughter just like you, you won't have any troubble because the teacher gave you tha grades that someone else got, and things like that but even with four and five names it has happened!


That's true, José.  That happened to one of my old classmates, Irene López Gómez.  There were two of them, but luckily, one was Irene Sofía, and the other one was Irene del Carmen.

So you do have a point there: having several names does have a good side!


----------



## Victoria32

In New Zealand we use middle names - mine is Loraine, which I like more than my real first name which I _loathe_! I decided to give my son plenty of choice when he was born, so I gave him *four *Christian names and when he was 9, we changed his surname by deed poll, and added another Christian name which he chose to use, when he was about 11 until this last year. Now he is trying to return to his original first name, but inertia means that people keep calling him Jim - the name he added when he was 9 - after Captain James T Kirk of the Star ship Enterprise - and no, I am_ not _kidding! 

I wish my parents had given me four Christian names... I'd be spoiled for choice.

Vicky


----------



## sdr083

In Norway the laws were change recently, so now you can basically choose the name you want for yourself (even if it isn't really a name) and for your child as long as the authorities don't think the name will be a serious problem for the child.  Many people, including both my parents, have two first names, but I've never heard of anybody who has more (not even members of the Norwegian royal family).  My mother uses both her names, my father only one (I think most people have no idea he has more than one), but they chose to give my brothers and me only one each.  

Traditionally your surname would be your fathers surname, and some people would have their mothers surname as a middle name.  Now people do what they want.  I have only my fathers surname because it's the same as the name of the farm where I grew up (quite common in Norway) and my parents thought one was enough.  I have been asked many times though, both here in Spain and when I lived in Costa Rica, if I really only have two names ("all your names, please...")

In Norway you are only allowed to have ONE surname, so the other one will be considered a middle name.  E.g. if your name is Anne Marie Terese Charlotte Kristine Pernille Olsen Hansen, "Anne Marie Terese Charlotte Kristine Pernille" would be "_first names_", Olsen a _middle name_ and Hansen the _surname_.  People are listed alfabetically by the last name.  I have a friend who lives in Norway but is from Chile, so she has two surnames.  The middle one is her fathers surname, and the one she considers most important (the one she would be listed with in Chile), but in Norway this is considered a middle name and she is listed by the last name which is her mothers surname.

My first name is very common in Norway, but my last name I share with only about 50 other people in the world, so there's no confusion...


----------



## jess oh seven

I'm half American and half Scottish and I've known as many Americans as Brits with middle names. Mine is Anne, which is a fairly common one


----------



## TrentinaNE

My mother's extended family in northern Italy did not give middle names.  I always thought it was cool that I was not baptized with one, but when I formally became a U.S. citizen at about age 10, my mother made me take one, saying it was "more American."


----------



## Dr. Quizá

In Spain you can have as many second names as you want. As an example, Picasso's full name was _Pablo Diego José Francisco de Paula Juan Nepomuceno María de los Remedios Crispín Crispiniano de la Santísima Trinidad Ruiz y Picasso_, being surnames only the two latter. Most People have one or two names... My parent's have one, I have two, my siblings have three each, although I only use my second name in serious documents and my siblings only use their first names. A lot of people use always their two names like one because they're a so common combo that usually even have an own short form:

José María: Chema, Josema...
Juan de Dios: Juande
Juan Antonio: Juanan
José Luis: Pepelu

This is specially in men because most women multi-names start with "María" that is so common that is usually deprecated in common usage, keeping then only the middle name.


----------



## mplsray

garryknight said:


> In BE and in AE you have a first name and a surname. Your surname is also your second, or third, or fourth, or even fifth (or more) name, depending on how many forenames you have. And the first name is often called a 'Christian name' even in non-religious families.


 
That is true of British English, but in American English the term _Christian name_ is rarely if ever used—I don't think I've ever met an American who used it—and it is unthinkable that it would be used in a form from a governmental bureau or private organization.

Furthermore, we would tend not to refer to _first name/surname,_ but rather to _first name/last name_ (or _family name_) with_ given name/surname_ being used on occasion.


----------



## Etcetera

In Russia, we usually don't have middle names (although some children get double names; but it happens very rarely), but we have patronyms. 
I knew a girl whose daughter had two names. The parents called her Alina, but when they came to church to baptise her, the priest told them that he couldn't baptise the baby as Alina, so they chose some other name for her. Everyone calls the girl Alina, and her "Christian" name is kept secret as the priest advised the parents.


----------



## DCPaco

In the United States, I noticed that the Catholics and some of the derivative churches give confirmation names.  As I understand, these aren't legal names but they are names used at formal church functions (like at a wedding the legal name and the confirmation would come together...so, if a person is John Paul Matthews and his confirmation name is Francis, on the day of his church wedding they might say:  Do you John Paul Francis Matthews take this woman Mary Anne Teresa Johnson, etc etc).  

In Mexico, some people get middle names and others don't...but we definitely don't get confirmation names or not that I'm aware of.


----------



## Bienvenidos

In Afghanistan, the middle name is usually the name that most people are called by, since almost every male's first name is Mohammad.

Women used to change their first names after getting married to a more "dainty" name usually ending with "-gul" (this suffix means "flower" or "flower of").


----------



## 2001nita0

Hi- well I'm one of those with a long string of names and I don't know whether it's anything to do with Brazilian customs or not being half English, half Brazilian,. Leonita Thalia Lucia Bernadette de Souza Hide. It could have been reduced a bit by marriage but I've married someone with a double barrelled surname, so I'm just doomed to spend a long time filling out forms- still it's fun to have a choice of names I think. Here in the Uk, non married couples sometimes give their children a last name of each parents last name combined, but there are also plenty of old established double barrelled surnames as well.


----------



## simply-gris

¿Cómo funciona eso del segundo nombre en Latinoamérica? En EE.UU está el "middle name" y en Latinoamérica es a lo que nosotros llamamos como "segundo nombre". 

Pero, ¿cómo están los formularios en Latinoamérica? ¿Preguntan por el nombre, segundo nombre, y apellidos?.. ¿O solo preguntan por el nombre y apellidos y ya si tienes un segundo nombre también lo escribes? 

¿Middle name iguala al segundo nombre? 

¿Alguien me podría explicar por favor?


----------



## De Bezetene

Son conceptos culturales distintos. Por lo tanto no hay una verdadera 'traducción'.

En Colombia, donde la gente a menudo tiene dos nombres, a uno le piden los *Nombres* y *Apellidos* (ambos términos en plural).


----------



## PABLO DE SOTO

En España, aunque no tan frecuente como en Latinoamérica, muchas personas llevan dos nombres, pero no solemos hablar de primer y segundo nombre. En todo caso hablamos de *nombres compuestos*.
La mayoría son muy comunes y son casi considerados un solo nombre, José Luis, José María, María Dolores.
Otros son más originales. Uno se puede llamar Pablo Manuel, pero no considera que tiene un primer y segundo nombre, sino un nombre compuesto.
En todos los documentos más o menos oficiales aparece siempre Pablo Manuel, salvo en algún caso concreto por falta de espacio como las tarjetas de crédito o cuando hay que dar el nombre en algún sitio de modo informal, como dar el nombre en una tintorería para identificar la prenda. En ese caso con decir Pablo de Soto, basta.
En los formularios oficiales, siempre los dos nombres.


----------



## Handsome Dan

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> En España, aunque no tan frecuente como en Latinoamérica, muchas personas llevan dos nombres, pero no solemos hablar de primer y segundo nombre. En todo caso hablamos de *nombres compuestos*.
> La mayoría son muy comunes y son casi considerados un solo nombre, José Luis, José María, María Dolores.
> Otros son más originales. Uno se puede llamar Pablo Manuel, pero no considera que tiene un primer y segundo nombre, sino un nombre compuesto.
> En todos los documentos más o menos oficiales aparece siempre Pablo Manuel, salvo en algún caso concreto por falta de espacio como las tarjetas de crédito o cuando hay que dar el nombre en algún sitio de modo informal, como dar el nombre en una tintorería para identificar la prenda. En ese caso con decir Pablo de Soto, basta.
> En los formularios oficiales, siempre los dos nombres.


 
En Colombia son compuestos los que casi forman un solo nombre: José Luis, Juan Carlos, María del Pilar.

Los que no combinan de forma tan natural, como p.e. Alberto Jorge, son sólo dos nombres.

Sin embargo, en cualquier caso, a la gente le piden sus nombres y apellidos, no el primero y segundo nombres.


----------



## melboma

PABLO DE SOTO said:


> En España, aunque no tan frecuente como en Latinoamérica, muchas personas llevan dos nombres, pero no solemos hablar de primer y segundo nombre. En todo caso hablamos de *nombres compuestos*.
> La mayoría son muy comunes y son casi considerados un solo nombre, José Luis, José María, María Dolores.
> Otros son más originales. Uno se puede llamar Pablo Manuel, pero no considera que tiene un primer y segundo nombre, sino un nombre compuesto.
> En todos los documentos más o menos oficiales aparece siempre Pablo Manuel, salvo en algún caso concreto por falta de espacio como las tarjetas de crédito o cuando hay que dar el nombre en algún sitio de modo informal, como dar el nombre en una tintorería para identificar la prenda. En ese caso con decir Pablo de Soto, basta.
> En los formularios oficiales, siempre los dos nombres.


 
Exacto, en España te piden nombres y apellidos.

Pero *para mi* el middle name seria como el segundo nombre.


----------



## mirx

melboma said:


> Exacto, en España te piden nombres y apellidos.
> 
> Pero *para mi* el middle name seria como el segundo nombre.


 

¿Y cuál es el segundo nombre para tí?

En México los formularios de hospitales y otros establecimientos públicos dicen así:

Nombre(s)
____________________________
Apellido (s)
____________________________


----------



## simply-gris

Ah, bueno, pués sus respuestas me ayudaron mucho. Ahora entiendo mejor. Muchas gracias.


----------



## wildan1

The practice of using two last names (apellidos) in Latin America is always confusing to us gringos.

I had a Latin American friend who came to the U.S. to study. His name was like José _Pérez Jiménez_, and at home, he normally was called José Pérez. But in the U.S. everyone thought that _Pérez_ was his "middle name" so they called him _José Jiménez_. He said, "I like it and I think my mother would enjoy hearing people call me that, too."

We have a middle name, but only one last name--usually our father's. In L.A. you officially list both your father's and your mother's last name, and when a woman marries, she drops her mother's name but uses her husband's, with _de_ before it. (_María Sánchez _marries _Juan Martínez_ and she becomes _María Sánchez de Martínez)_ 

And that leads to a joke I heard in Mexico:

If _Dolores Fuertes_ marries _José Cabeza_, her married name is "_Dolores Fuertes de Cabeza"_!


----------



## JamesM

I thought it was the other way around, wildan1. I have a Mexican-American friend whose father's name is Garcia and whose mother's maiden name was Flores. She goes by Garcia de Flores.

As you said, it is always confusing to us gringos.


----------



## simply-gris

Before laws changed in Spanish-speaking countries, if a woman named María Riquelme Velázquez married Christian Perroni Portillo her name would have automatically change to María Riquelme Velázquez de Perroni. If they got divorce her name would have automatically change back to María Riquelme Velázquez. 

However, laws have been changing and it is now different. It also varies from country to country. If a woman gets married she now has the option to choose how she wants to use her last names, the same manner as she would in the United States. If a woman gets divorced her name will not be automatically change back to her maiden name, she now has to go through a process just like in the United States.


----------



## WAMORZINHO

Here in Brasil there are people that use the mother last name as their middle name.
Some times, people used to remind their deceased parents, so there are people with 3 or 4 family name!


----------



## Outsider

wildan1 said:


> The practice of using two last names (apellidos) in Latin America is always confusing to us gringos.
> 
> I had a Latin American friend who came to the U.S. to study. His name was like José _Pérez Jiménez_, and at home, he normally was called José Pérez. But in the U.S. everyone thought that _Pérez_ was his "middle name" so they called him _José Jiménez_. He said, "I like it and I think my mother would enjoy hearing people call me that, too."
> 
> We have a middle name, but only one last name--usually our father's. In L.A. you officially list both your father's and your mother's last name, and when a woman marries, she drops her mother's name but uses her husband's, with _de_ before it. (_María Sánchez _marries _Juan Martínez_ and she becomes _María Sánchez de Martínez)_


Now I see how this can get confusing. But part of it is the terms you're using. Think of _Pérez_ and _Jiménez_ as family names, rather than "last" or "middle" names.


----------



## sound shift

There is no obligation to have a middle name in the UK. Lots of people have only one "Christian" name and one surname: Jane Smith, John Brown, etc. Some people believe that it is pretentious to give a child more than one "Christian" name.


----------



## Miguel Antonio

Dr. Quizá said:


> In Spain you can have as many second names as you want.


Except that as from some time ago *only two* "first names" are allowed on official lay documents, though the Catholic Church allows as many as you wish, witness the royal family who give long composite name to their children always ending in _de todos los Santos _so as not to leave any one out. In Franco's days it had to be literally Christian names, that is, recorded in the Bible or local saints, and in Spanish only.

In Spain you get two surnames, first your father's then your mother's, so the "last" name that you carry in your official documents is your mother's father's first surname. The opposite happens in Portugal, and this is sometimes a source of confusion.


----------



## pickypuck

simply-gris said:


> Before laws changed in Spanish-speaking countries, if a woman named María Riquelme Velázquez married Christian Perroni Portillo her name would have automatically change to María Riquelme Velázquez de Perroni.


 
As far as I know that never happened officially or legally in Spain. 



			
				Miguel Antonio said:
			
		

> In Spain you get two surnames, first your father's then your mother's, so the "last" name that you carry in your official documents is your mother's father's first surname.


 
This was the tradition. Nowadays it is possible to have first the first mother's last name so it is impossible to be 100% sure if a person has first his/her father's or mother's first last name.

In the States, I have a single first name, made up of two first names, because I have two first names or a "nombre compuesto" in fact. So I could have had a middle name in the USA but legally, I do not. Curious, isn't it? 

Greetings


----------



## Miguel Antonio

Miguel Antonio said:


> In Spain you get two surnames, first your father's then your mother's


 That is, under the law, the "default mode"



pickypuck said:


> This was the tradition Not the tradition, but the LAW. Nowadays it is possible to have first the first mother's last name so it is impossible to be 100% sure if a person has first his/her father's or mother's first last name.


You are right, but it involves a lot of paperwork... and not all daddies are willing to let their family name die away, it is up to the children to decide when they grow up which one they want first.


----------



## pickypuck

Miguel Antonio said:


> You are right, but it involves a lot of paperwork...


 
I know children with the new order and as far as I know getting this is as easy as getting the "default mode". There are mixed couples of Spaniard and Portuguese in Extremadura who usually do it. Thus, the child will be the same person in both countries.

The difficult thing is to make changes once you are an adult. I have a friend who wanted to change her first name a little bit and changed her mind when she realized what she had to do. I don't think it is that easy to change your last names' order being over 18. But everything is theoretically possible, although there are times that you depend on the willingness of the public servant you come across 

Saúdos cordiais


----------

