# EN: software - uncountable



## emmablue

Hi all,

when we talk about several software (and we never put an 's' at the end of software, do we?), we have to say "software are", is that correct?

Thank you for your responses.

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.


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## jann

I would never use a plural verb with "software."  The word is always singular.... and so I would never say "several software" either.   Instead, I would chose a noun that has a plural form, and let "software" function as an adjective:

several software packages
several software solutions (this sounds like an advertisement!)
several programs/drivers/firewalls/etc (name the specific kind of software)
etc.


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## emmablue

Thank you very much!! That helps me a lot!


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## coeurdenfant

En Anglais, "softwares" est incorrecte, comme Jann a bien expliqué.

Je vois deux problemes ici qui sont souvent un difficulté pour les français:
(1) Le mot "software" est vraiment un nouveau mot en Anglais. Ce mot est entré en vigueur lorsque les ordinateures et les langages de programmation ont venus. Les regles de grammaire ne sont pas bien définis en ce cas. 
(2)En générale, les regles de grammaires en Anglais qui guides les pluriels sont ambigus.

Alors, je comprends bien et je suis solidaire du difficultés apprendre l'Anglais.


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## Le bonheur des dames

Hello,

Is the word "software" invariable? 

Is it correct to write "This engineer designs softwares?"

Thanks for your help!


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## snarkhunter

software, hardware, metalware, etc... no "s", ever.


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## Fred_C

Si vous voulez dire qu'il y a plusieurs "logiciels", pensez qu'on peut dire "une application logicielle".
Dans l'expression correspondante "software application", software est un adjectif, et "application" supporte très bien le pluriel.


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## geostan

snarkhunter said:


> software, hardware, metalware, etc... no "s", ever.



I confirm.


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## Tatzingo

Le bonheur des dames said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is the word "software" invariable?
> 
> Is it correct to write "This engineer designs softwares?"
> 
> Thanks for your help!



"This engineer designs software" 

Tatz.


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## Le bonheur des dames

Thank you!

If I want to speak about Computer-Aided Design (CAD) tools, can I say:
"This engineer uses CAD software applications"

Thanks in advance for your help.


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## jamsmasher

Yes, that makes sense. 

However, it might be more natural to omit the word "applications".


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## feyfegueq

Bonjour,  j'étais en train de lire un article sur wikipedia et je suis tombé sur cette phrase : "Acronis True Image is disk imaging software" (article anglais: Acronis_True_Image). Je ne comprends pas quelle règle de grammaire justifie qu'il n'y ait pas 'a' avant 'disk'. J'ai déjà rencontré plusieurs fois cette construction, je croyais que c'était une faute mais apparemment plusieurs l'utilisent donc c'est probablement une notion que je ne connais pas. Si quelqu'un pouvait m'éclairer...  Merci.


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## snarkhunter

Bonjour,

En fait, cela est plus que probablement lié à la particularité du terme "software" (... ou de tous les "ware" en général, d'ailleurs), qui désigne aussi bien un "objet" (le logiciel) que la *catégorie* de tous les logiciels en général.

Et ici, c'est très clairement la seconde acception qui est retenue.

Point de vue à confirmer par un anglophone natif, bien évidemment...


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## timboleicester

I think it is more a question of how the word "software" is thought of. Here it is an uncountable noun like "sugar" although you could be talking about "a disk imaging software package"  turning it into a countable one.  By the way we would never say "a software" on its own so why " a disk imaging software" ?


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## nickm70

As timboleicester said, it's uncountable, just like you don't say "a water or "a wood."
If you need any more explaination or some examples, this article explains it pretty well:
http://esl.about.com/od/grammarforbeginners/a/g_cucount.htm


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## Maître Capello

"Software" is sometimes used—maybe wrongly so—as a synonym of "program," which is a countable noun. Would you only say "a piece of software"?


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## timboleicester

Yes you would only say "a piece of software" in the same way as you would say " a piece of cheese" What are you asking exactly? Would you say "some piece of cheese I mean software...?


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## Maître Capello

timboleicester said:


> What are you asking exactly?


I meant that many people say and write "a software" as if it were countable. I just wanted a confirmation that it is inappropriate.


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## timboleicester

I have never heard it myself but then my siblings are all computer geeks. I have heard "a software program" however...


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## Emanon

Lis le plutôt comme ça : Acronis True Image sert a la création d'images disques

Cette phrase n'inclut aucune notion quantitative, comme la phrase d'origine, d'ou le fait l'absence de "a".

[...]


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## Keith Bradford

The word *software *is a neologism, true, but it's based on other industrial words such as hardware (= _la quincaillerie_), flatware (=_ la coutellerie_), holloware (= _les cuillères _etc.), ironware (= _les articles en fer_), stoneware (= _les pots de grès_).  None of these have ever had a plural, although ware on its own has the plural wares (= _la marchandise_).

So, by analogy no plural for software, and no indefinite article either.  Ever.

The usage of "a software program" is correct, because here the noun is *a program;* software is merely an adjective.


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## CapnPrep

Keith Bradford said:


> None of these have ever had a plural, although ware on its own has the plural wares (= _la marchandise_).


1927 _Manitoba Free Press_ 14 May 10/3 (_advt._) *Hardwares*—Electricals—Paints. (OED, s.v. _electrical_)
1850 _Times_ 25 Dec. 3/5 As we have certain cottons and *hardwares* to sell, and Portugal oranges to buy, we may need ‘some kind of consul’. (OED, s.v. _Portugal_)
1880 C. A. Janvier _Pract. Keramics_ 136   Very fine *stonewares*, mostly iron-body, are made in Japan and China. (OED, s.v. _stoneware_)
2003 _Oxoniensia_ *67* 320 Staffordshire and London *stonewares* and *earthenwares*, Chinese and  English porcelain, Astbury, Jackfield and Agate wares, and tin-glazed * earthernwares* [sic]. (OED, s.v. _earthenware_)

Also listed in the OED as having a plural form: _cartwares_, _homewares_, _mindwares_, _pearlwares_, _slipwares_, _tablewares_, …

There's no reason _software_ couldn't be both a mass noun and a count noun. It just isn't (for most speakers).


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## timboleicester

These uses look like "jargon" and as such not in common usage by "nornal" people.


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## Maître Capello

For some reason, it seems like the use of _software_ as a count noun is more frequent with the definite article (_the_)…

Wikipedia s.v. _software_ (bold mine):


> … devices required to store and execute (or run) *the software*.
> […]
> Once *the software* has loaded, the computer is able to _execute_ *the software*.
> […]
> … the right to use *the software* in the licensed environment.


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## timboleicester

Well you can use the def article with non-count nouns....

dissolve the sugar in the tea
cut the cheese into cubes

Have I missed what you mean?7


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## Maître Capello

timboleicester said:


> Well you can use the def article with non-count nouns...


Erm… right… Please forget what I just said.


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## Pheedooda

Le bonheur des dames said:


> Hello,
> 
> Is the word "software" invariable?
> 
> Is it correct to write "This engineer designs softwares?"
> 
> Thanks for your help!


Or this engineer does software design


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