# The pot calling the kettle black



## sweet_jane

*The pot calling the kettle black*

Ho sentito questa espressione molto carina. A parte "da che pulpito viene la predica!" non c'è un'espressione idiomatica più colorita in italiano?


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

il bue che dice cornuto all'asino


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## sweet_jane

Grazie, Tommaso! Scusa il ritardo ma non mi collego molto spesso. Ho tanto da studiare


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## Emily Reigh

Hello to all,

Could someone tell me if there is an equivalent expression in Italian to "the pot calling the kettle black"?  It means that someone accuses someone else of something that they are guilty of themself. 

Thank you.


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## Saoul

The equivalent expression would be:

Il bue che dà del cornuto all'asino.


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## claudine2006

There is another version that it's a little bit different:
Il bue dice cornuto all'asino.


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## fox71

In Tuscany we say: "Cencio che dice male si straccio!!!"

Also: "Ma senti da che pulpito viene la predica!"


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## monachina

fox71 said:


> In Tuscany we say: "Cencio che dice male si straccio!!!"



Do you mean "di straccio"
I saw it on the "Solo italiano" forum: 
frasi divertenti in italiano (o nei vari dialetti) 			:


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## _forumuser_

monachina said:


> Do you mean "di straccio"
> I saw it on the "Solo italiano" forum:
> frasi divertenti in italiano (o nei vari dialetti)             :


 
Yes. *di *straccio.

dire male = to slander


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## fox71

Sorry for the typo! Thank forumuser!


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## stella_maris_74

In some Italian regions (I have heard it in Emilia-Romagna) they also say:
*il maiale che dà del porco alla colomba.*



ciao,

dani


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## cmanetti

Thanks guys!
cmanetti


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## katebush77

A question for the natives... to help me better understand this expression...
"the pot calling the kettle *black*"....    
Does *"To call black" *mean "saying that the kettle is *dirty*... or *blackened*..." or what else??
Of course, I've got the figurative sense of this expression... but I am curious to fully understand the "literal" meaning. Thanks for your help.


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## Tunalagatta

katebush77 said:


> A question for the natives... to help me better understand this expression...
> "the pot calling the kettle *black*"....
> Does *"To call black" *mean "saying that the kettle is *dirty*... or *blackened*..." or what else??
> Of course, I've got the figurative sense of this expression... but I am curious to fully understand the "literal" meaning. Thanks for your help.



Yes, it means dirty. Pots and kettles were blackened by soot from the flames of a fire or of a traditional stove, in a time when there were no electric kettles.


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## katebush77

Tunalagatta said:


> Yes, it means dirty. Pots and kettles were blackened by soot from the flames of a fire or of a traditional stove, in a time when there were no electric kettles.



Thank you very much, Tuna!! I love knowing the origin of popular expressions!


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## SighingatSilvio

As you are interested:

Yes it certainly means what Tuna says there, dirty and blackened, for the reasons indicated.  It's disparaging, in other words.

But there's just a little bit more to it.  A pot is going to be even MORE blackened and dirty than a kettle, so it's DOUBLY IRONIC.  It's something like that one from the bible (Book of Job I think, but I'm not religious at all), which to paraphrase, runs something like:

'Before pulling splinters out of other people's eyes, attend to the log in your own'.


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## cecil

SighingatSilvio said:


> As you are interested:
> 
> Yes it certainly means what Tuna says there, dirty and blackened, for the reasons indicated. It's disparaging, in other words.
> 
> But there's just a little bit more to it. A pot is going to be even MORE blackened and dirty than a kettle, so it's DOUBLY IRONIC. It's something like that one from the bible (Book of Job I think, but I'm not religious at all), which to paraphrase, runs something like:
> 
> 'Before pulling splinters out of other people's eyes, attend to the log in your own'.


  Luke 6:42  New Testament.


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## katebush77

cecil said:


> Luke 6:42  New Testament. [/COLOR]



Thank you Cecil! Really appreciated your further explanation!


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## aggo

E' il nostro equivalente della pagliuzza e della trave.

"Perché guardi la _pagliuzza_ che è nell'occhio del tuo fratello, e non t'accorgi della _trave_ che è nel tuo?"


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## Tunalagatta

SighingatSilvio said:


> As you are interested:
> 
> Yes it certainly means what Tuna says there, dirty and blackened, for the reasons indicated.  It's disparaging, in other words.
> 
> But there's just a little bit more to it.  A pot is going to be even MORE blackened and dirty than a kettle, so it's DOUBLY IRONIC.  It's something like that one from the bible (Book of Job I think, but I'm not religious at all), which to paraphrase, runs something like:
> 
> 'Before pulling splinters out of other people's eyes, attend to the log in your own'.



I didn't know this  

Why would a pot be more black than a kettle, out of interest?


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## SighingatSilvio

katebush77 said:


> Thank you Cecil! Really appreciated your further explanation!


 
Kate: Well the name's not Cecil, but no problem.

Tuna: Due to the different nature and common usage of the objects in question.

Cecil: okay Luke it is.


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## katebush77

Sorry Silvio, I made confusion with names!

I'm not a native.. but following my istinct and making comparison with the equivalent Italian expressions.. I think it would be appropriate to point out the following difference between
*"the pot calling the kettle black" *and _*"*__*Before pulling splinters out of other people's eyes, attend to the log in your own"*_.

The first one is usually more playful, informal and also lighter than the second one.
The second sentence is "heavier" and normally involves a moral judgement or an accusation.

Therefore I would use the Bible quotation almost exclusively for "serious" contexts. On the contrary. "the pot calling the kettle black" can be used while kidding with friends or relatives.


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## Necsus

******   NEW QUESTION   ******

Ciao, WRF!
E come si potrebbe tradurre secondo voi la risposta: "The kettle is black. Only the pot can see it"? (dalla serie tv 'Rake')
Letteralmente immagino che dovrebbe essere "L'asino ha le corna, solo il bue le vede". Ma quale sarebbe il senso?
Grazie!


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## Matrap

Necsus said:


> ******   NEW QUESTION   ******
> 
> Ciao, WRF!
> E come si potrebbe tradurre secondo voi la risposta: "The kettle is black. Only the pot can see it"? (dalla serie tv 'Rake')
> Letteralmente immagino che dovrebbe essere "L'asino ha le corna, solo il bue le vede". Ma quale sarebbe il senso?
> Grazie!



Ciao Necsus e benritrovato 

Per aiutarci potresti dirci due parole sulla situazione comunicativa in cui viene usata questa espressione?
Chi la pronuncia? Riguardo a cosa?

Grazie.


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## Necsus

Ciao, Mat. Grazie. 
Maddy è la ex-moglie di Keegan, e Glenn una loro amica con cui si capisce che in passato ci sono stati rapporti anche di tipo sessuale. Queste sono le battute precedenti:



KEEGAN DEANE Sorry, Glenn, I'd ask you to join us, but you know what happened last time I did that.  GLENN SHEPARD Actually, that was dinner.  MADDY She's right.  GLENN SHEPARD Yeah, and I invited you to join us.KEEGAN DEANE As I recall, the three of us ended up having a lot more than dinner that night.  GLENN SHEPARD Yeah, so what?  It was sex.KEEGAN DEANE It was great sex.  That's why Maddy ended up with me.  You ready to go?GLENN SHEPARD Yeah, but she's not with you anymore, though, right?  KEEGAN DEANE You see why she came back, right?  This is all just to get even with me.  MADDY You think that the only reason she would be here was for you.KEEGAN DEANE She's trying to keep every option available, keep all the flames burning.  MADDY You're the poster boy for psychological rejection.  GLENN SHEPARD *You are the pot calling the kettle black.*KEEGAN DEANE *The kettle is black.  Only the pot can see it. * 


Aiuta un po'?


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## rrose17

Ciao! I know this series and the characters speaking. There is a lot of animosity between these two and this dialogue is a matter of one trying to get the last word and be more clever than the other. She's saying that Glenn is indeed "the poster boy for psychological rejection" but it's only because she's been there that she sees it so clearly. Does this make sense?


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## Necsus

Thank you, rrrrrose. It makes perfectly sense.
And in your opinion what the meaning of the last sentence could be?


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## rrose17

What I said above, that he is indeed scarred (the kettle_ is_ black) but she's the only one who sees that.  

Are you sure you have all the names correctly aligned with their dialogue? I remember this scene a little differently...


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## Necsus

Okay. Thank you again. 
Well, I've copied and pasted it from the dialogue list...


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## Cristina Avello

Hi, in Liguria si dice "il Merlo che dice nero al corvo", calza bene come traduzione in quanto riprende il concetto del colore, con meno implicazioni morali, spero concordiate...


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## johngiovanni

Forse: "Certo, l'asino ha le corna, ma ci vuole l'occhio di un bue (una mucca?) per vederle".


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## Pietruzzo

The problem is that kettles and pots are both black (at least they were in the past) while donkeys don't have horns. I'd rather use the already mentioned  "da che pulpito viene la predica!", (from what pulpit comes the homily!), that is often shortened "da che pulpito..." As for the case in post #27 I'd say:
-Da che pulpito viene la predica
- Chii più sa più predica.


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## tsoapm

Cristina Avello said:


> meno implicazioni morali


Lighter, do you mean? Because it seems to me that the English expression does refer to morality: you shouldn’t accuse others of something that you’re guilty of yourself. You can say that in a more or less friendly way, of course!


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