# Icelandic: -maður, -menni etc.



## Gavril

One Icelandic word for "robot" is _vélmenni_, clearly composed of _vél + maður_. Why is -_menni _used in this context instead of -_maður_? Would the word _vélmaður _mean something different (e.g., a man who works with machines, rather than a "combination" of a man and a machine)?

Are there other word-pairs that show a contrast between _-maður _and -_menni_?

Þakkir


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## Tjahzi

Hm. As far as I know, most (all?) compounds that _should_ have -_maður _instead have _-menn__i_. That is, compounds that in English would end in _-man_.

(Sorry for not really answering your question. I don't know why _-menni _is preferred over _-__maður, _but I really think it's a common construction.)


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## Gavril

Tjahzi said:


> Hm. As far as I know, most (all?) compounds that _should_ have -_maður _instead have _-menn__i_.



_leikmaður _"layman, player", _kaupmaður _"grocer", _umboðsmaður _"representative", _útvarpsmaður_ "radio person(?)", etc.

I may not be defining _útvarpsmaður _correctly (it's not in any of the dictionaries I consulted).

All the words I can think of with_ -maður _indicate a contingent association with something (acting, trade, etc.), whereas the words I know of with _-menni_ indicate a more "essential" connection:

_ómenni _"scoundrel", _smámenni _"insignificant (person)", _skyldmenni _"relative", _vélmenni _"machine-man, robot", etc.

Icelandic speakers, please let me know if this is not the normal pattern for _-menni _vs._ -maður._


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## Tjahzi

Ok, certainly not all. 

I think you might be on to an official distinction, but it would be great to have a native say on the subject.


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## sindridah

I think very few native speakers actually know the reason why we use menni instead of maður in some contexts. But yeah menni is synonym of maður and about the vélmaður that would actually mean nothing to me, Man who works with machines and such would be called vélvirki. Menni can't stand by itself since it's a synonym and a combination form. And it's quite difficult for a regular native speaker to actually answer your question clearly since only a highly educated Icelander of his native language could tell you the reason why I would assume unless I'm underestimating some of my fellow speakers  

Base(?)word     derivative          example

Dagur                degi                hádegi
gras                  gresi               mýrgresi
hús                   hýsi                hjólhýsi
land                  lendi               hálendi
nótt                  nætti             miðnætti


As you can see we have few more examples of this compounds/segmental words and I would be interested in what some other native speakers have to say about this matter! And yeah sorry for not really answering your question


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## TomTrussel

Just found this interesting. I guess I might be on the verge of de-railing, but does maður like the english _man _mean both _man _and sometimes _mankind? _Also, from the list of words from Gavril, I immediately thought it could be that the compounds ending with -maður are some sort of honorary titles, while those ending with -menni are not. Sorry, I'm completely clueless, just found it interesting


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## Donnerstag

"Menni" is a sort of a dimunative term for "man". It implies one not being a proper man. It is generally used in word-pairs which have a negative meaning. But also: _ungmenni _(young people who haven't yet fully grown up, therefore the dimunative)

So vélmenni - the robot isn't quite a man
ómenni - derogatory term for someone - you consider him less than a man

etc.


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## Gavril

Donnerstag said:


> "Menni" is a sort of a dimunative term for "man". It implies one not being a proper man. It is generally used in word-pairs which have a negative meaning.


 
Is the same true of _-hysi _("not quite a house"), _-gresi _("not quite grass"), and so on?



> But also: _ungmenni _(young people who haven't yet fully grown up, therefore the dimunative)
> 
> So vélmenni - the robot isn't quite a man
> ómenni - derogatory term for someone - you consider him less than a man
> 
> etc.



Incidentally, is _smámenni _only used when referring to people, or can it refer to other "insignificant" things?


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## NoMoreMrIceGuy

A couple of examples where -_menni_ doesn't carry a negative meaning:
_
Góðmenni
Mikilmenni
Ofurmenni_

Which go to show that there isn't a cut in stone rule for which one is used (_-menni _or -_maður_). Example:

Spiderman
_Kóngulóarmaðurinn_

Superman
_Ofurmennið_

One small nitpick:

The Icelandic word for robot should be _þjarkur_, _vélmenni_ is cyborg. It is almost non-existent to see the proper use of this.


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