# to begrudge something



## emma1968

Please, could you tell me the red written phrase's meaning  ?

So, Mary thought, could anyone  begrudge her the glee she felt when  Susan had called last month to say,"guess what? Little Miss Blondie threw Alan out!"
P.s  Alan is Mary's ex-husband

Thanks Emma


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## Willi

invidiare la sua gioia?


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## ElaineG

Here, begrudge is more "resent", "not allow her to enjoy freely".

Forse, "Mary pensavo, possa qualcuno risentirsi della gioia che provava quando..."


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## emma1968

do you mean in sense of " could anyone blame her for the glee she felt?


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## Elisa68

Scusa Emma,
C'è un punto interrogativo alla fine della frase? Non è che potresti scrivere il resto? Solo per mia curiosità, per capire quel _could _come potrebbe essere tradotto. Grazie.


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## ElaineG

EMMA1968 said:
			
		

> Do you mean "resent" in the sense of " could anyone blame her for the glee she felt?


 
Più o meno, sì.


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## emma1968

Elisa68 said:
			
		

> Scusa Emma,
> C'è un punto interrogativo alla fine della frase? Non è che potresti scrivere il resto? Solo per mia curiosità, per capire quel _could _come potrebbe essere tradotto. Grazie.


Ho continuato  la  frase  nel post iniziale, spero che adesso ti sia più chiaro. 
Ciao 
secondo me è " poteva qualcuno biasimarla per la gioia provata....


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## Willi

Then maybe "... poteva qualcuno biasimare la sua contentezza quando Susan..." also "biasimarla per la sua contentezza"


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## Elisa68

Grazie, Emma! Sì, mi sembra perfetto. 


Edit: Willi, mi ero confusa  perché lo stavo traducendo come discorso indiretto, ma in realtà è un discorso diretto, quindi credo che la traduzione di Emma sia precisa, che dici?


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## ElaineG

> Ciao
> secondo me è " potrebbe/poteva qualcuno biasimarla per la gioia provata...


 
Perfetto (anche le traduzioni di *Willi* suonano bene). 

Solo un dubbio: Che è più forte -- gioia o contentezza? "Glee" dovrebbe essere quella più forte.


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## carrickp

What do you think, Elaine -- to me "begrudge" means "resent out of jealousy and/or mean spirits." Do you agree? I'm not positive from Garzanti if this is exactly what "biasimare" means.


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## ElaineG

carrickp said:
			
		

> What do you think, Elaine -- to me "begrudge" means "resent out of jealousy and/or mean spirits." Do you agree? I'm not positive from Garzanti if this is exactly what "biasimare" means.


 
I agree about the general meaning of begrudge, but in Emma's example, any element of jealousy is missing (compare:"I looked on begrudgingly while my younger brother ate the last piece of chocolate cake"), and it's hard to see the "ill will" also.

Emma's sentence seems to use "begrudge" as short hand for "could anyone have said that she shouldn't be gleeful?", which is why I thought biasamare was O.K. 

What do you think?


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## carrickp

ElaineG said:
			
		

> I agree about the general meaning of begrudge, but in Emma's example, any element of jealousy is missing (compare:"I looked on begrudgingly while my younger brother ate the last piece of chocolate cake"), and it's hard to see the "ill will" also.
> 
> Emma's sentence seems to use "begrudge" as short hand for "could anyone have said that she shouldn't be gleeful?", which is why I thought biasamare was O.K.
> 
> What do you think?



Well, it's just me, but I'd say you wouldn't use the word "begrudge" unless there was least the potential or suspicion of jealousy or resentment. I think there's definitely an element of reverse _schadenfreude_ in the word. In the particular example we started with, a woman is happy because her ex-husband has met with misfortune. So what's really being said is, "Even though it is a crappy, selfish, mean-spirited feeling, I guess Mary could be indulged in a bit of glee over the fact that her ex-husband's new girlfriend threw him out."


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## emma1968

, 





> I guess Mary could be indulged in a bit of glee over the fact that her ex-husband's new girlfriend threw him out."



Yes, basing also on the fact that before  Mary's husband had left  her for the  new one .
Ciao Emma.


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## emma1968

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Perfetto (anche le traduzioni di *Willi* suonano bene).
> 
> Solo un dubbio: Che è più forte -- gioia o contentezza? "Glee" dovrebbe essere quella più forte.



For me is stronger " gioia"   because   it means  a full soul satisfaction.
Bye E.


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## victoria luz

ElaineG said:
			
		

> Here, begrudge is more "resent", "not allow her to enjoy freely".
> 
> Forse, "Mary pensava, possa qualcuno poteva/potrebbe/avrebbe potuto risentirsi della gioia che provava aveva provato quando..."


 

NB
Risentirsi è più corretto seguito da PER
(Per quanto si incontri spesso seguito da DI o anche da A)
Risentire nel senso di BE AFFECTED regge invece DI.

VL


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## ElaineG

Garzanti's wrong again, I guess: they translate "to resent" as "resentirsi di".


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## victoria luz

Elaine,

I didn't say it is incorrect, it is of common use (often followed by del fatto che...).

De Mauro by default gives examples followed by the preposition a (si risentì alle sue parole) which is correct too.

Nevertheless, the complement following this verb should be one of cause, so per just suits better.

Regards 
Vic

Oops! Just seen and corrected the typo in the previous post. Sorry about that.


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## ElaineG

> Nevertheless, the complement following this verb should be one of cause, so per just suits better.


 
Hey, I believe live people over the dictionary anyday. Dictionaries necessarily engage in reductiveness, while we have time to go on and on (and on and...) here on the Forum.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Hello there. I have been reading this conversation, and I am more confused than when I started  

It seems that you are accepting "biasimare". But both the dictionary (Garzanti) and Carrick give another meaning: "invidiare".

These verbs are quite different. So what's up here? Is the dictionary wrong or is the english sentence which has something wrong?

PS.
Also, what is the English for "to resent" ?


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## ElaineG

Tommaso Gastaldi said:
			
		

> Hello there. I have been reading this conversation, and I am more confused than when I started
> 
> It seems that you are accepting "biasimare". But both the dictionary (Garzanti) and Carrick give another meaning: "invidiare".
> 
> These verbs are quite different. So what's up here? Is the dictionary wrong or is the english sentence which has something wrong?
> 
> PS.
> Also, what is the English for "to resent" ?


 
Invidiare can be one meaning.  Another meaning is 





> wish ill, resent


 
as I said in Post #3.  (By the way, the English for "to resent" is "to resent"  ).

But in this sentence "resent" and "blame" would import almost the same meaning -- that no one will condemn her for actions -- so if the natives don't like resentirsi, I'll go with biasimare.


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## Tommaso Gastaldi

Garzanti says about "to resent":

- risentirsi di; prendersela per; offendersi per: _to - s.o.'s behaviour_, offendersi per il comportamento di qlcu.
*- *provare dispiacere per; provare...

this is quite confusing...



			
				ElaineG said:
			
		

> Invidiare can be one meaning. Another meaning is
> 
> as I said in Post #3. (By the way, the English for "to resent" is "to resent"  ).
> 
> But in this sentence "resent" and "blame" would import almost the same meaning -- that no one will condemn her for actions -- so if the natives don't like resentirsi, I'll go with biasimare.


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## ElaineG

> Garzanti says about "to resent":
> 
> - risentirsi di; prendersela per; offendersi per: _to - s.o.'s behaviour_, offendersi per il comportamento di qlcu.
> *- *provare dispiacere per; provare...


 
Yeah, that's what I said back in post #3, and a couple of times since then. I feel like I'm chasing my tail in this discussion. Except that pandas  have very small tails.


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## Marcone

How do you all feel about _mal volentieri?_  It expresses the idea of doing something even though you don't like it.


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## carrickp

There is a difference between "blame" and "resent," but it's hard for me to describe. Although they indeed can be interchangeable, "resent" leans toward taking umbrage at something that has been done to you, or directed toward you -- personally. "Blame" is more transitive -- you are ascribing to someone or something the responsibiity for some wrong or evil.

"I resent the Bush Administration for the fact that their policies have caused my gasoline bills to double over the past five  years."

"I blame the Bush Administration for the increase in gasoline prices that has stifled the growth of the U.S. economy and heightened our foreign trade deficit.

Therefore "begrudge" is more like (but not exactly like) "blame" than it is "resent."


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## lsp

carrickp said:
			
		

> There is a differrence between "blame" and "resent," but it's hard for me to describe. Although they indeed can be interchangeable, "resent" leans toward taking umbrage at something that has been done to you, or directed toward you -- personally. "Blame" is more transitive -- you are ascribing to someone or something the responsibiity for some wrong or evil.
> 
> "I resent the Bush Administration for the fact that their policies have caused my gasoline bills to double over the past five years."
> 
> "I blame the Bush Administration for the increase in gasoline prices that has stifled the growth of the U.S. economy and heightened our foreign trade deficit.
> 
> Therefore "begrudge" is more like (but not exactly like) "blame" than it is "resent."


I don't think they are interchangeable, though they often are both applicable in a situation. Resentment is the feeling of bitterness (regardless of blame). Blame is the assigning of fault or responsibility. I resent that my older sister always got better Christmas presents than I did. I blame my parents for not being fair to us about gifts.


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## emma1968

Sorry if the sentence was:
"could Alan resent for her glee, dopo che alcuni  mesi prima le aveva riservato lo stesso trattamento .
In this context "resent"  could work?

Intendendo quel  "qualcuno "  del mio post iniziale come fosse riferito ad  Alan


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## Schrodinger's_Cat

*begrudge* = essere riluttante a dare, dare a malincuore, invidiare. 

*He begrudged every penny spent.*

Ha dato a malincuore ognuno centesimo speso??


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## rubuk

Ben, in questo caso per me la traduzione giusta è il rimpianto. Ha rinpianto ogni centesimo speso.

St.


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## Schrodinger's_Cat

rubuk said:


> Ben, in questo caso per me la traduzione giusta è il rimpianto. Ha rinpianto ogni centesimo speso.
> 
> St.


 
Non si dice "dare soldi a malincuore a qualcuno"?


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## neuromatico

rubuk said:


> Ha rimpianto ogni centesimo speso.


Un typo.


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