# Urdu/Hindi: baRhiyaa



## lcfatima

Would you say baRhiyaa has a high, medium, or low frequency of usage in Urdu?

It seems to have a much higher frequency of usage in Hindi by comparison, but I wasn't sure if it was used much in Urdu.


----------



## Qureshpor

lcfatima said:


> Would you say baRhiyaa has a high, medium, or low frequency of usage in Urdu?
> 
> It seems to have a much higher frequency of usage in Hindi by comparison, but I wasn't sure if it was used much in Urdu.



I would say "high" and it would be my first choice in most circumstances.


----------



## Alfaaz

Icfatima said:
			
		

> Would you say baRhiyaa has a high, medium, or low frequency of usage in Urdu?
> It seems to have a much higher frequency of usage in Hindi by comparison, but I wasn't sure if it was used much in Urdu.


I would say medium to high for Urdu. However, I guess it would be slightly lower comparing it to Hindi (media), as we also seem to use the following depending on context: 
عمدہ ، اول درجے کا ، خوب ، بہترین ، اعلٰی ، کمال ، فائق ، بر تر ، افضل ، بجا
u'mdah , awwal darje kaa, xuub, beh-tareen, a'aalaa, kamaal, faa'iq, bar-tar, afzal, bajaa, etc. 

Hindi seems to use uttam, apart from baRhiyaa...?


----------



## Abu Talha

I must confess that this word is not in my active vocabulary, nor do I hear it among people I speak Urdu with most (a mostly Pakistani crowd).


----------



## panjabigator

I was once in the company of Pakistanis who visited India (Pashto speakers) and they went on about how they never heard the word "barhiyaa" in their life. "ghaṭṭiyā," on the the other hand, was a common word for them. I had asked some of my Punjabi speaking friends from Lahore about this not so long ago. The Punjabi "vadhiyā" they used, but the Urdu "barhiyā" they did not.



> عمدہ ، اول درجے کا ، خوب ، بہترین ، اعلٰی ، کمال ، فائق ، بر تر ، افضل ، بجا



Alfaaz sāhib, I certainly heard these words a lot more in Lucknow than "barhiyā."


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Abu Talha said:


> I must confess that this word is not in my active vocabulary, nor do I hear it among people I speak Urdu with most (a mostly Pakistani crowd).




Agreed with Abu Talha. Never heard this word in a genuine Pakistani context, this would be replaced by _*zabardast.*_


----------



## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Agreed with Abu Talha. Never heard this word in a genuine Pakistani context, this would be replaced by _*zabardast.*_



I am really surprised about this. Even in a Punjabi environment I have heard Punjabis speaking Urdu use "baRhiyaa". I've just spoken with someone born and bred in Karachi who tells me that "baRhiyaa" is quite common in Urdu speech although it might not be as common as employed by Hindi speakers.

I appear to be in a minority of one!


----------



## BP.

I've heard it everyday growing up from a street cloth vendor, but only him as far as I can remember. Rahmatullah 3alaih. In our household 3umdah is the preponderant word of praise.


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> I am really surprised about this. Even in a Punjabi environment I have heard Punjabis speaking Urdu use "baRhiyaa". I've just spoken with someone born and bred in Karachi who tells me that "baRhiyaa" is quite common in Urdu speech although it might not be as common as employed by Hindi speakers.
> 
> I appear to be in a minority of one!


I think the ones who haven't come across the word in Urdu might have had contacts with younger generation only. As QP SaaHib has said, this is a full-blooded Urdu word which one is likely to come across in the literature rather than in spoken language. 

This word is somehow perceived as outdated, and has been used by the older generations. It is true that this word has fallen out of use, especially in the language of Pakistan. I believe it is the matter of popularity a word gains or looses in different places and periods.


----------



## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> I was once in the company of Pakistanis who visited India (Pashto speakers) and they went on about how they never heard the word "barhiyaa" in their life. "ghaṭṭiyā," on the the other hand, was a common word for them. I had asked some of my Punjabi speaking friends from Lahore about this not so long ago. The Punjabi "vadhiyā" they used, but the Urdu "barhiyā" they did not.
> 
> 
> 
> عمدہ ، اول درجے کا ، خوب ، بہترین ، اعلٰی ، کمال ، فائق ، بر تر ، افضل ، بجا
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Alfaaz sāhib, I certainly heard these words a lot more in Lucknow than "barhiyā."
Click to expand...

 Although _baRhiyaa_ is something heard and used, esp. more now in Lucknow, it has _never_ been a part of our active Urdu vocabulary. Instead we most often go for words like a3laa / 3umdah اعلٰی / عمدہ etc. In fact, nearly all the words mentioned above by Alfaaz SaaHib are the ones we use and hardly ever _baRhiyaa_! But, muHtaramii, you are right about "ghaṭṭiyā". Very commonly used.


----------



## Alfaaz

I would agree with QP SaaHib above. I certainly didn't mean to suggest (when providing the alternatives) that baRhiyaa isn't used at all/dead/extinct. BaRhiyaa still seems to be used by _both older and younger generations _of Urdu speakers, however (as mentioned previously) it isn't as frequently used/omnipresent as it seems to be in Hindi media/speakers. 

Example: 
_A: Duuuuude! Check this out! Kyaa motorcycle hai yaar! 
B: BaRhiyaa! 
C: Awwwwwesome! Kitni ki li hai?
D: Kamaal hai yaar!_


----------



## Faylasoof

I don’t think there has ever been any doubt whether the word is part of Urdu vocabulary! The original question was about its frequency of usage. _This depends entirely on which region of the Urdu speaking world you are from and what kind of Urdu you speak!_ 

Certainly in our _shustah_ Urdu, _usage _of the word _baRhiyaa_ is non-existent, and without sounding in any way elitist but sticking to facts, its usage is considered by us to be rather lay / plebeian!


----------



## hindiurdu

Interesting. Both barhiya and ghaTTiya are low-frequency in my family, though the Punjabis do use 'vadiya' a lot. I remember being surprised when I first heard this exchange:
Q: Aapka kya haal hai?
A: Barhiya.

Before this, I had always associated barhiya as something that was said about the quality of things. I then realized that some people use it exchangeably for 'achchha'. Even now, this feels a bit exotic to me. It has a bit of an Eastern feel to it somehow, though I could be mistaken. "GhaTTiya" would be looked on as a somewhat crude and almost slang-like word in my circles, kind of like "sucks". This would be more common:

Kya haal hai? Xaraab.
Kaisi cheez hai? Bekaar. Xaraab. Fazool/fizool.
Kaisa aadmi hai? Xaraab/bura.

There's also slang/borrowed type usage: syon/sohni/shail cheez, maaRhi cheez, गंद​/گند cheez. Maybe good and bad are so visceral that your pre-HU linguistic background becomes extremely sticky.


----------



## Abu Talha

hindiurdu said:


> I remember being surprised when I first heard this exchange:
> Q: Aapka kya haal hai?
> A: Barhiya.
> 
> ... Even now, this feels a bit exotic to me. It has a bit of an Eastern feel to it somehow, though I could be mistaken.


I agree with this. On the other hand saying "zabardast" (as Cilquiestsuens Sb notes) in response to "kyaa Haal hai?" (if one is feeling especially sprightly), although equally slangy, seems fine to me. 

Never having heard baRhiyaa in my formative years (like PG Sb's Pashto speaking acquaintances), I was very surprised when I first heard it being used so frequently. In fact, I didn't even detect any aspiration of R in there so I thought it was some corrupted form of baRaa, indicating greatness. Now knowing its correct spelling, it strikes me as a perfect antonym for the technical non-slang use of ghaTTiyaa.





hindiurdu said:


> "GhaTTiya" would be looked on as a somewhat crude and almost slang-like word in my circles, kind of like "sucks".


 Same here, although I think it is used quite often to indicate poor quality (in material, etc.) and it doesn't seem crude there.


----------



## BP.

Abu Talha said:


> ...On the other hand saying "zabardast" (as Cilquiestsuens Sb notes) in response to "kyaa Haal hai?" (if one is feeling especially sprightly), although equally slangy, seems fine to me. ...


Even if the usage countervenes the meaning of the word in a general context?


----------



## Abu Talha

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Even if the usage countervenes the meaning of the word in a general context?


I'm not saying it's correct but zabar-dast was how we expressed "Awesome!". Using it as an answer to kyaa Haal hai, one would have to be speaking informally to a "yaar" and feeling very effusive.


----------



## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> I don’t think there has ever been any doubt whether the word is part of Urdu vocabulary! The original question was about its frequency of usage. _This depends entirely on which region of the Urdu speaking world you are from and what kind of Urdu you speak!_
> 
> Certainly in our _shustah_ Urdu, _usage _of the word _baRhiyaa_ is non-existent, and without sounding in any way elitist but sticking to facts, its usage is considered by us to be rather lay / plebeian!



One possible yardstick to fathom out occurrence of particular words in the speech patterns of a community could be to look for the usage of these words in the works of its best prose and verse writers. Unfortunately there are no easy search criteria to be applied when one has at hand the works of a particular author. When one conducts a general search on the net, a "buRhiyaa" gets in one's way and this hinders progress towards seeking out anything that is "baRhiyaa"!  Nevertheless, here are a few examples.

 آج ہم ہر چیز بڑھیا اور عمدہ پسند کرتے ہیں دوکان بڑھیا ہو مکان بڑھیا ہو اور پان بھی بڑھیا ہو اور نان بھی بڑھیا ہو تو اس میں کوئی اشکال نہیں کیونکہ انسان خود اشر ف المخلوقات ہے اگر ہر چیز اسے اشرف اور اعلیٰ پسند ہو تو یہ اس کی فطری خواہش ہے لیکن یہ انسان اپنے لیے تو اشرف اور بڑھیا چیزیں پسند کرے مگر اپنے مالک اور خالق کے کاموں میں بھی اس کو یہی تقاضا ہونا چاہیے

malfuuzaat-i-Hazrat-i-vaalaa Hardo'ii (Hazrat Maulana Shah Abrar-ul-Haq)

 ایک ہی مادہ تخلیق سے تم بنے ہو، ایسا بھی نہیں ہے کہ کچھ انسان کسی پاک یا بڑھیا مادے سے بنے ہوں اور کچھ دوسرے انسان کسی ناپاک یا گھٹیا مادے سے بن گئے ہوں۔

(Maulana Maududi- tafhiim-ul-Qur'an- al Hujuraat 49- Note 28) 

I found a couple of examples from the writings of Ghulam Abbas (Anandi/Overcoat) and Shafiq-ur-Rahman (Jenny) but won't quote them for reasons linked to your underlined sentence.

ganj-i-zar xaak se ugalvaayaa
kiimyaa shuGhal-i-kaashtkaarii hai

kar chukaa kisaan jab apnaa kaam
phir xudaa se ummiid-vaarii hai

kaahilii se ghaTaa nah paidaavaar
yih to baRhiyaa gunaah-gaarii hai

Isma'il Merathi


----------



## JaiHind

Alfaaz said:


> Hindi seems to use uttam, apart from baRhiyaa...?



The most commonly used Hindi word for it is "achchha" अच्छा . Of course "uttam" is also there. "ati-uttam" to mean very good/ very nice / bahut achchha / bahut badhiya. बहुत अच्छा / बहुत बढ़िया


----------



## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> Originally Posted by *Faylasoof *I don’t think there has ever been any doubt whether the word is part of Urdu vocabulary! The original question was about its frequency of usage. _This depends entirely on which region of the Urdu speaking world you are from and what kind of Urdu you speak!_
> 
> Certainly in our _shustah_ Urdu, _usage _of the word _baRhiyaa_ is non-existent, and without sounding in any way elitist but sticking to facts, its usage is considered by us to be rather lay / plebeian!
> 
> 
> 
> One possible yardstick to fathom out occurrence of particular words in the speech patterns of a community could be to look for the usage of these words in the works of its best prose and verse writers. Unfortunately there are no easy search criteria to be applied when one has at hand the works of a particular author. When one conducts a general search on the net, a "buRhiyaa" gets in one's way and this hinders progress towards seeking out anything that is "baRhiyaa"! Nevertheless, here are a few examples.
> 
> آج ہم ہر چیز بڑھیا اور عمدہ پسند کرتے ہیں دوکان بڑھیا ہو مکان بڑھیا ہو اور پان بھی بڑھیا ہو اور نان بھی بڑھیا ہو تو اس میں کوئی اشکال نہیں کیونکہ انسان خود اشر ف المخلوقات ہے اگر ہر چیز اسے اشرف اور اعلیٰ پسند ہو تو یہ اس کی فطری خواہش ہے لیکن یہ انسان اپنے لیے تو اشرف اور بڑھیا چیزیں پسند کرے مگر اپنے مالک اور خالق کے کاموں میں بھی اس کو یہی تقاضا ہونا چاہیے
> 
> malfuuzaat-i-Hazrat-i-vaalaa Hardo'ii (Hazrat Maulana Shah Abrar-ul-Haq)
> 
> ایک ہی مادہ تخلیق سے تم بنے ہو، ایسا بھی نہیں ہے کہ کچھ انسان کسی پاک یا بڑھیا مادے سے بنے ہوں اور کچھ دوسرے انسان کسی ناپاک یا گھٹیا مادے سے بن گئے ہوں۔
> 
> (Maulana Maududi- tafhiim-ul-Qur'an- al Hujuraat 49- Note 28)
> 
> I found a couple of examples from the writings of Ghulam Abbas (Anandi/Overcoat) and Shafiq-ur-Rahman (Jenny) but won't quote them for reasons linked to your underlined sentence.
> 
> ganj-i-zar xaak se ugalvaayaa
> kiimyaa shuGhal-i-kaashtkaarii hai
> 
> kar chukaa kisaan jab apnaa kaam
> phir xudaa se ummiid-vaarii hai
> 
> kaahilii se ghaTaa nah paidaavaar
> yih to baRhiyaa gunaah-gaarii hai
> 
> Isma'il Merathi
Click to expand...

 As I said above the word is part of _bona fide _Urdu vocabulary but, as underlined above, its usage depends on the two points I mentioned. Consequently in our speech (and prose) it is non-existent as it seems to be elsewhere too. Apart from the examples above many others can be also given by way of its usage in Urdu. It is just that we don't use "_baRhiyaa"_, unlike "_gha__ṭṭ__iyā_" which we use freely. Therefore the frequency of usage of _baRhiyaa_ (or indeed its lack of usage) will depend on whose Urdu is being cited.


----------



## marrish

Is _ghaṭṭiyā_ the correct form of the word? I hope it is not a side drift for it is the exact antonym, so it does appear.


----------



## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> Is _gha__ṭṭiyā_ the correct form of the word? I hope it is not a side drift for it is the exact antonym, so it does appear.


 It is indeed the antonym of what we are discussing and mentioned here only as a comparison in terms of its usage as compared to that of _baRhiyaa_. As to the correct form, I guess it may depend on the language / dialect. In Urdu, and according to the transliteration rules followed by some of us, the Urdu گھٹیا would be written as _ghaTiya_. … and going back to the topic, allow me to repeat that _baRhiyaa_ really is non-existent in the Urdu we speak and write!


----------



## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> It is indeed the antonym of what we are discussing and mentioned here only as a comparison in terms of its usage as compared to that of _baRhiyaa_. As to the correct form, I guess it may depend on the language / dialect. In Urdu, and according to the transliteration rules followed by some of us, the Urdu گھٹیا would be written as _ghaTiya_. … and going back to the topic, allow me to repeat that _baRhiyaa_ really is non-existent in the Urdu we speak and write!


Thank you. And going back to the topic, baRhiyaa doesn't occur in our language, either, but still it doesn't mean I'm not familiar or can't understand this word !


----------



## tonyspeed

Faylasoof said:


> It is indeed the antonym of what we are discussing and mentioned here only as a comparison in terms of its usage as compared to that of _baRhiyaa_. As to the correct form, I guess it may depend on the language / dialect. In Urdu, and according to the transliteration rules followed by some of us, the Urdu گھٹیا would be written as _ghaTiya_. … and going back to the topic, allow me to repeat that _baRhiyaa_ really is non-existent in the Urdu we speak and write!



It would seem from your profile that your Urdu is Lucknow Urdu. Up to now we have assumed that baRhiyaa is "more Indian" than Pakistani. However, your Urdu is Indian Urdu.
So is there a theory for the abundance of baRhiyaa in Indian Hindi but NOT in Indian Urdu?

Strangely enough barhiyaa comes up as "high-priced" on the ijunoon online Urdu dictionary.  



HIGH-PRICED بڑھيا


----------



## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> Thank you. And going back to the topic, baRhiyaa doesn't occur in our language, either, but still it doesn't mean I'm not familiar or can't understand this word !


 Thank you for your understanding! However, this comment was not needed and _*it was not the point of discussion either*_!


----------



## Faylasoof

tonyspeed said:


> It would seem from your profile that your Urdu is Lucknow Urdu. Up to now we have assumed that baRhiyaa is "more Indian" than Pakistani. However, your Urdu is Indian Urdu.
> So is there a theory for the abundance of baRhiyaa in Indian Hindi but NOT in Indian Urdu?
> 
> Strangely enough barhiyaa comes up as "high-priced" on the ijunoon online Urdu dictionary.
> 
> 
> *HIGH-PRICED*
> بڑھيا


 Yes our Urdu is of Lucknow but I shall not hazard any theory as such as to why _we_ don’t use it and can only repeat what I said above (emphasis added):



Faylasoof said:


> I don’t think there has ever been any doubt whether the word is part of Urdu vocabulary! The original question was about its frequency of usage. _This depends entirely on which region of the Urdu speaking world you are from *and what kind of Urdu you speak!
> 
> *_*Certainly in our shustah Urdu, usage of the word baRhiyaa is non-existent*, and without sounding in any way elitist but sticking to facts, its usage is considered by us to be rather lay / plebeian!


 However, as we all agree the word is an _integral part of Urdu vocabulary_. We though choose to use its synonyms already mentioned above. Also, I'm not always very eager to categorize Urdu as Pakistani or Indian! It all depends on what kind of Urdu one speaks! I know _dehlaviis_ of the older generation who don’t use _baRhiyaa _either! It is a certain sort of Urdu we are talking about.

Since we are not allowed to post links to Youtube here I could, if you so wish, PM you a couple of links to Urdu videos made in Pakistan and India where you’ll hear the kind of Urdu we speak. There are a few places (very few, in fact) where the pronunciation is different from ours in the video produced in Pakistan but that would be considered quite acceptable since not everyone in Lucknow or Old Delhi speaks / spoke in exactly the same way! This is specially true now when the street language has changed considerably, although we’ve always had certain accepted norms of the kind of Urdu language we still speak. 

BTW, I’d be careful as to the definitions provided by certain online dictionaries. Many are hopelessly inadequate or just plain wrong! I’ve heard _baRhiyaa qiimat_ used to mean “high-priced” but _baRhiyaa_ alone just means what we have been discussing.


----------

