# Петрович/Петровна



## Jana337

I've just heard on TV that in Russia, you can use Petrovič/Petrovna to refer to "good people". Is it true, or just an urban legend? 

Thanks,

Jana


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## Ptak

Hm, "good"?..

We can use this names meaning village people. Or it's just generalized abstract designation for russian elderly people (mostly vulgar people).

But we can use not only Петрович/Петровна, but some another simple patronymic names (Михалыч, for example)...


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> I've just heard on TV that in Russia, you can use Petrovič/Petrovna to refer to "good people". Is it true, or just an urban legend?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jana


I'm afraid I don't understand exactly what does mean "good people", but anyway, addressing the people with a single patronymic is very warm and hearty way.
And of course it is used in combination with *ты* only; normally - when addressing to the elder or coeval people who are older than 40-45. I hardly can imagine addressing such a way to a 20-years old person, unless as a a friendly mockery.

Sorry for off-top, but cannot omit one wide-spread mistake of non-natives: when they use Russian patronimics in spoken language, they use to pronounce it completely, exactly like they write it: *Сергеевна, Алексеевна, Матвеевна, Владимирович, Иванович, Михайлович*, *Павлович*, etc. But this is incorrect.
In speech such patronimics are pronounced shortly as *Сергевна, Алексевна, Владимыч (or Владимирыч), Иваныч, Михалыч*, *Палыч, *etc. Even not all the natives know about this, but such pronunciation sounds much more beautiful. "Literal" pronunciation of the patronymics, especially referring to the superiors and higher sounds "hat in hand", cringely.
Likewisely some first names are also normally shortned in the speech: Михал Михалыч, Анна Пална (<Павловна), Владим Владимыч, Пал Борисыч (< Павел Борисович), etc.


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## Crescent

Maroseika said:


> Sorry for off-top, but cannot omit one wide-spread mistake of non-natives: when they use Russian patronimics in spoken language, they use to pronounce it completely, exactly like they write it: *Сергеевна, Алексеевна, Матвеевна, Владимирович, Иванович, Михайлович*, *Павлович*, etc. But this is incorrect.
> In speech such patronimics are pronounced shortly as *Сергевна, Алексевна, Владимыч (or Владимирыч), Иваныч, Михалыч*, *Палыч, *etc. Even not all the natives know about this, but such pronunciation sounds much more beautiful. "Literal" pronunciation of the patronymics, especially referring to the superiors and higher sounds "hat in hand", cringely.
> Likewisely some first names are also normally shortned in the speech: Михал Михалыч, Анна Пална (<Павловна), Владим Владимыч, Пал Борисыч (< Павел Борисович), etc.



Yes, I agree with Maroseika on the fact that in pronounciation we usually ''shorten'' our patronymics and abbreviate them, although I must admit that I didn't know that it was a rule, as such. I just thought we did so because the original versions are far too long, and quite frankly, Russians are...a little lazy, at times. 
But now I'll bare in mind that it is strictly against the law code of Russian grammar to pronounce them otherwise, Maroseika.  
In fact, now that I think of it - the most common example is of course _Сан Саныч_ which originates from _Александр Алексадрович_.

Jana, I must admit I'm slightly confused too, as to what you mean by ''good people''. Sorry, is it my low level of vocabulary, or are you using this term in a slightly original way?..
As far as I know, Петровна/ Петрович is used just like any other kind of patrymonic without any particular meaning behind it. But like I said - that's only that I know..


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## Jana337

I am afraid I cannot give you more context. It was just a sentence in passing on TV - they asked some Russians why they called everyone Petrovič. The explanation was that it was a common way to refer to good people (I think they actually meant ordinary people, as Ptak implies). Important: The actual names of the people were different. It should probably sound welcoming but not overly respectful, I think.


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> I am afraid I cannot give you more context. It was just a sentence in passing on TV - they asked some Russians why they called everyone Petrovič. The explanation was that it was a common way to refer to good people (I think they actually meant ordinary people, as Ptak implies). Important: The actual names of the people were different. It should probably sound welcoming but not overly respectful, I think.


Strange enough, I've never heard of anything like that. As far as I know there is no any generalized patronymic in Russian, which one could use either in 2nd or in the 3rd Person.


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## Jana337

Maroseika said:


> Strange enough, I've never heard of anything like that. As far as I know there is no any generalized patronymic in Russian, which one could use either in 2nd or in the 3rd Person.


It might well have been a regional thing. Or a habit of a family.

Thanks for your help. 

Jana


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## Etcetera

I've never heard of it.
Although I remember that there was a character in a TV show or something like that who was called Петрович. I guess they wanted to give him some "plain" name.


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## papillon

I wonder if the question was not about the specific use of Petrovich, but rather the use of the patronimic alone, without the first name. Such usage is indeed often reserved for someone whom we like...


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## Jana337

From what I garnered from the few sentences in passing on TV, they implied they would really call everyone Petrovich.


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> From what I garnered from the few sentences in passing on TV, they implied they would really call everyone Petrovich.


My only guess it was a kind of an occasional joke.


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## Crescent

Jana337 said:


> From what I garnered from the few sentences in passing on TV, they implied they would really call everyone Petrovich.



The only other assumption I could make is the fact that the name Peter (Пётр, Петя) is a very common one in russian, and therefore, logically, the patrymonic Петрович is just as common as well. 
Perhaps the idea was to make a reference to the ''common man'' - just a man not out of the ordinary, a simple and every-day type guy. Jana, knowing all about your multilingual abilities , I wonder if the Spanish ''_equivalent_'' would help you?(I say ''equivalent'' because it is only so, in my opinion. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the phrase and it means something entirely different, but for the time, this is how I see it.  )  I believe it would be: _la gente/el hombre de a pie_. Or:_ el hombre corriente_. 
(creo que ésta es la expresión correcta, no? )


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## Maja

Strange thing is that in Serbia, example forms (when they show you how to  correctly fill in the form), usually read Petar Petrović on the blank line for a  name!!! 
And people in talk can say Petar Petrović meaning some man, ordinary bloke,  man of the people. 
I guess because it's very frequent name.


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## Kolan

I can tell that in a more colloquial and friendly manner (between old and very good friends) even the first names may be pronounced in form of a _spoken_ patronymic, especially, if they derive from a respective abridged name, like a certain *Александр Иванович* (Aleksandr Ivanovich) who is often called abridgedly Саня, and it is quite common to call him *Caныч* (Sanych) and not Иваныч.

My own example would prove it, either. Николай (*Nikolai*) - Коля (Kolya) - Колян (Kolyan) - Коляныч (*Kolyanych*), it's the same for those who know me closely (but never family members nor my relatives).

Even the presumed Petrovich may be understood as Petr, which makes it believe that such a name could be used to describe an average Russian man, like Россия Петр*о*в и Ив*а*нов.

The above only can be applied to men, not women, since a woman's name can never sound as patronymic.


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## Maroseika

Maja said:


> Strange thing is that in Serbia, example forms (when they show you how to correctly fill in the form), usually read Petar Petrović on the blank line for a name!!!
> And people in talk can say Petar Petrović meaning some man, ordinary bloke, man of the people.
> I guess because it's very frequent name.


In Russian I know only 3 examples of such "blank" names:
Иванов, Петров, Сидоров (for enumeration of indefinite persons)
Пупкин (for one indefinite person, derives from army, I believe)
Пушкин (if anyone has not done what he ought to do, he may get a question: Then who will do that instead of you: Pushkin?).


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> Пупкин (for one indefinite person, derives from army, I believe)


This is *Вася Пупкин*, inséparable


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> Пушкин (if anyone has not done what he ought to do, he may get a question: Then who will do that instead of you: Pushkin?).


Originally comes (or became extremely popular after as joke), I guess, from a Soviet comic  movie "Весёлые ребята" (year 1936?), where a poor maid must pay some fare to a funeral coachman  after her ride in the coffin under heavy rain, and she had no money, "Who's gonna pay, Pushkin?" (Кто платить будет, Пушкин?).


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## Maroseika

Kolan said:


> This is *Вася Пупкин*, inséparable


No, only as a variant.
Originally: рядовой Пупкин по вашему приказанию явился!


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> No, only as a variant.
> Originally: рядовой Пупкин по вашему приказанию явился!


Всё равно он - Вася, другого же нет (that's what I meant "inséparable", if Пупкин, then Вася is understood). Просто не всегда его называют по имени и фамилии, но сам персонаж от этого не меняется.

I guess, that generally speaking nowadays, Вася became a more typical Russain, that even Ваня or Петя. Many of the Russian "анекдоты" refers to Вася as a main personnage, rather than Иван which is more reserved for the fairy tales. Пётр became Петька in numerous and favorite "Василий Иваныч" (Чапаев) jokes.

Well, here goes one of the best I like, "Хорошо-то как, Вася! - А я не Вася. - Ах, всё равно хорошо!"


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