# Back to Dodecatheon: Greek variety of general trend or uniquely Greek "peculiarity"?



## ireney

Hello all,

lately I have been feeling an overwhelming need to keep my eyes permanently rolled with what my compatriots say and do. 

I _think_ I could live with claims such as "the Greek language has 5000000 words" and such but the "back to worshipping the Dodecatheon" is a bit much for me. (see here and here for example  although there are many sites out there).

My question is this: Is this the Greek variety of a global trend or is it just us being utterly silly?


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## Etcetera

I remember reading several articles about people in Russia who claim themselves 'pagan'. They celebrate pagan festivities, worship pagan gods, and so on. But, frankly, it doesn't seem serious to me. It's rather just a way to make fun. And anyway, this movement isn't very popular.


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## ireney

Well if this was for fun (Halloween all year round so to speak) I wouldn't mind. Our guys however are serious. I mean it. Currently they have started playing around with history too and that _really_ upsets me.


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## Outsider

ireney said:


> I _think_ I could live with claims such as "the Greek language has 5000000 words" and such but the "back to worshipping the Dodecatheon" is a bit much for me. (see here and here for example  although there are many sites out there).


Hmm, sounds like the doings of a few enthusiastic secularists. Something tells me most modern Greeks are far too dedicated to Christianity to follow the fad. 
Have you heard about Wicca?


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## ireney

Outsider said:


> Hmm, sounds like the doings of a few enthusiastic secularists. Something tells me most modern Greeks are far too dedicated to Christianity to follow the fad.
> Have you heard about Wicca?



a) Dedicated to Christianity? Us? Nahhh! Most are nominally Christians but I hope (and would pray if only) we are smarter than worrying if that animal close to our daughter is really Zeus wanting to get some.

b) Wicca is not an old religion coming back though is it? I mean I don't know much, I only know that at least they're not trying to find airborne brooms and warts are not a must if you want to join.


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## Outsider

ireney said:


> b) Wicca is not an old religion coming back though is it? I mean I don't know much, I only know that at least they're not trying to find airborne brooms and warts are not a must if you want to join.


Nor is that movement in your country, I'm sure. I think these revivals of paganism are kind of cute (at least they show that we have religious freedom), but fundamentally flawed. The old religions were a product of a culture and a mentality which modern men cannot hope to feel. There's a lot of _naiveté_ in all of it. For example, the site you linked to says:



> It must be made clear, that no traditional religion includes the Evil, because Nature, the supreme being, can only be understood as Goodness.


How charmingly misinformed! The very concept of "goodness" is mostly a Judeo-Christian, Middle Eastern thing. The old pagan religions had their qualities, but they could also be quite brutal. I don't think the ancient Greeks ever expected their Olympian gods to be "good". They were the gods, they did as they pleased -- good, or bad.


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## ireney

Oh I am not doubting that they are grossly missinformed. Of course they are. And rather idiotic to my mind (the Olympian Gods? Please!). And yes, the Greek Gods were not noted for their essential goodness. 

How do you define _naiveté_?


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## Fernando

You can find most the same in Nea Roma and other sites. They are usually people who hates traditional religions (I mean Christianism, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism and so on) but they envy their taste for liturgy. 

They need rite and liturgy and so they lool back for the Olympic gods.

What upsets me it is that they pretend to be a bit upper class, much in the same sense of the Nietzsche scorn for Christendom (religion of slaves, you now).

As Outsider has said the ethics content of such religions is very low. 

Eventually we will return to human sacrifices, just for fun.


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## Outsider

Oh, I love ancient Greek mythology, with its ever present sense of irony. I just don't think a modern human could bring himself to _believe in it_.

Naïveté (I couldn't come up with an English equivalent. Naiveness?...)


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## ireney

Nea Roma? And I think they don't do it for "fun" really, just as going to a pub or something but I do think that the "human sacrifices" bit is going a bit far!


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## ireney

Outsider I know what naivete means but I was asking for a further definition. Do you think they are simple minded as in stupid , simple minded as in artless, ingeneous, guillible , childish ?


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## Outsider

Fernando said:


> As Outsider has said the ethics content of such religions is very low.


I don't believe I did say that, though.


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## Fernando

You said that they have no concept of goodness-evilness.

So, I would say they did not give much importance to ethics.


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## Outsider

ireney said:


> Outsider I know what naivete means but I was asking for a further definition. Do you think they are simple minded as in stupid , simple minded as in artless, ingeneous, guillible , childish ?


I wouldn't say that. I just get the impression that modern pagans idealize ancient paganism, and see it as they wish it had been, not as what it really was.



Fernando said:


> You said that they have no concept of goodness-evilness.
> 
> So, I would say they did not give much importance to ethics.


I was not referring to modern neopagans, but to ancient paganism.


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## Fernando

Outsider said:


> I was not referring to modern neopagans, but to ancient paganism.



So was I. That is why I said "They DID not...".


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## Outsider

But you also wrote:


Fernando said:


> You said that they *have* no concept of goodness-evilness.


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## Fernando

OK. I have misunderstood you trying to explain you why I DID not misunderstand you.

MY opinion:

- Ethics was not the forte of Old Greeks (at least while dealing with 12 Gods).
- Ethics is neither the forte of "New" grecophiles (hellenophiles?).


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## Namakemono

Outsider said:


> Oh, I love ancient Greek mythology, with its ever present sense of irony. I just don't think a modern human could bring himself to _believe in it_.


Yet there are modern human beings that believe we were made the way we are out of mud and that the Earth is only a few thousand years old.


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## modus.irrealis

ireney said:


> My question is this: Is this the Greek variety of a global trend or is it just us being utterly silly?



It does sort of look like a global thread. I've heard of groups trying to restore the Norse Gods or the Druid religion. There's also attempts to revive Native American religions, but this may be different as I think many of these were never entirely wiped out so there would be a continuous tradition that's lacking in the other cases.


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## Outsider

Namakemono said:


> Yet there are modern human beings that believe we were made the way we are out of mud and that the Earth is only a few thousand years old.


That's part of our Judeo-Christian culture. A small part, but a living one.
For better and for worse, the Dodecatheon has been dead for centuries.


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## ireney

modus.irrealis said:


> It does sort of look like a global thread. I've heard of groups trying to restore the Norse Gods or the Druid religion. There's also attempts to revive Native American religions, but this may be different as I think many of these were never entirely wiped out so there would be a continuous tradition that's lacking in the other cases.



That's interesting! SO instead of despairing about our local boys I should despair about the global trend! Thanks! 



Outsider said:


> That's part of our Judeo-Christian culture. A small part, but a living one.
> For better and for worse, the Dodecatheon has been dead for centuries.



That's what I meant. As an atheist I obviously don't believe in Christianity either but the olympic Gods, as the top Gods of a religion worshipped by anyone is dead and was up to recently buried.


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## Fernando

ireney said:


> That's what I meant. As an atheist I obviously don't believe in Christianity either but the olympic Gods, as the top Gods of a religion worshipped by anyone is dead and was up to recently buried.



You are a fake atheist. Are you implying they were alive at a time?


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## ireney

Why yes, do I dare call all these high-born ladies who got babies by" father unknown" and blamed it on a god liars?


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## HistofEng

When I lived in Greece for a month, many Greek people I met were very "patriotic" almost to the point of delusion, IMO." My cousin (by marriage), for example, believed that.... Greek was the most perfect language, and that Greeks invented the Russian language, that the Parthenon, and all other temples had some weird energy that messed with all the airplanes that flew above them, etc. In general, I got this ultra-patriotic vibes from many people there. All in all, I felt very comfortable there, and I can't wait to go back next summer.


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## ireney

HistofEng next time you can make sure you call me up so I can introduce you to my uncle!

The fact is that, although, this very voluble minority is still small I fear that poor education may lead more to believing to similar stupidities (for instance, they have possibly heard in between their naps something about the Cyrillic alphabet and then concoted this mad story about us inventing the Russian language without even thinking that this would be extremely stupid of us).

I guess you met only friends of your cousin?


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