# Ich sehe vor mir Geparde und Löwen (case)



## vaibhavm

Ich sehe vor mir Geparde und Löwen.

Does the verb _sehe _used as a dative verb in above sentence?

When to use the Zero Article


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## Demiurg

"sehen" requires accusative:

_Ich sehe (vor mir) einen Löwen._ (sing.)
_Ich sehe (vor mir) Löwen._ (plur.)


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## anahiseri

No, the verb *sehen* takes a direct object, that is, accusative.
Ich sehe vor mir Geparden und Löwen.

Maybe you're confused because of the *mir*, which is dative, but that has got nothing to do with the verb; "vor mir" is "in front of me"


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## vaibhavm

Yes _mir _was my confusion.

Geparden und Löwen - direct object (accusative)
 vor mir - dative - indirect object (dative preposition and pronoun)  Is it correct?


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## Perseas

I don’t think “vor mir” is an object here. I would class it as adverbial.
“Wo stehen Geparden? Vor mir.”


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## anahiseri

Perseas is right, *vor mir* (before me, in front of me) is not an object. It's true that the dative is used, among others, for indirect objects, but that's not the case here. It's an adverbial (of place), as Perseas says, and the preposition *vor*  is used with a noun or pronoun in the dative.
The same happens with the accusative: it is used for direct objects, as in your example, but also after certain pronouns (*für mich*, for me*). *And then there are prepositions that take a different case depending on how they're used.

I think you also have cases in hindi, don't you?


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## JClaudeK

vaibhavm said:


> vor mir - dative - indirect  object (dative preposition*** and pronoun) Is it correct?


It's a "Prepositional object" (object introduced by a preposition.) See #10
As for "*vor* mir", you have to know


> *Some* *prepositions* have different meanings that *govern the accusative or the dative case*
> *** The dative is used to refer to a state (static, question: wo?).
> *vor *with dative when local, *static* (_wo?_)
> _Der Wagen steht vor dem Haus.
> Ein großer Mann saß vor mir._


Wo sehe ich  Löwen und Geparde? →  (Sie sind) vor mir.


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## Perseas

JClaudeK said:


> It's a
> *"Prepositional object" *


I was between “prepositional object” and “prepositional adverb”.
In “ich warte auf etwas”, “auf etwas” would be prepositional object, but I was not sure that “ich sehe vor mir” was a similar case. I thought „vor mir“ was not a mandatory complement like „auf etwas“. Probably you are right.


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## anahiseri

Perseas, I don't know the terminology very well, but you are right that “ich warte auf etwas” and “ich sehe vor mir” are completely different grammatical structures. I don't think, however, that the point is about being mandatory. 
For me, the difference is that *auf etwas* is a complement of the verb (not mandatory, you can say *Ich warte.*) and *vor mir* isn't.


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## JClaudeK

Ihr habt (fast) recht:



> *Adverbial adjuncts and adverbial complements*
> Adverbials can be adjuncts or complements. Adjuncts are constituents of the sentence that are not governed by the predicate. They can be omitted. Complements are constituents of the sentence that are governed by the predicate of the sentence.
> ...
> When it comes to distinguish between prepositional objects and adverbials, the rule of thumb says that it is not possible to ask for a prepositional object without using a preposition (preposition+pronoun or pronominal adverb (_worauf, womit, wofür_, etc.).
> Prepositional object: Sie wartet auf den Bus/ auf ihre Freundin. -  Wor*auf* / *auf* wen wartet sie?
> Adverbial: Sie wartet auf dem Bahnsteig. - Wo wartet sie?


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## anahiseri

So, JClaudeK, 
in “ich sehe *vor mir*” it's an adverbial adjunct
and in "ich warte *auf etwas*” it's a prepositional complement
OK?


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## anahiseri

so we have, on the one side,  adjunct or complement
and on the other adverbial or prepositional
and that's 4 possible combinations?


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## JClaudeK

anahiseri said:


> in “ich sehe *vor mir*” it's an adverbial adjunct
> and in "ich warte *auf etwas*” it's a prepositional complement
> OK?


I presume so.


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## vaibhavm

anahiseri said:


> I think you also have cases in hindi, don't you?


Yes

JClaudeK, Perseas thank you


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## vaibhavm

> Ich sehe vor mir Geparde und Löwen.


I am still confused, How the dative case _mir _is determined in this sentence?


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## JClaudeK

vaibhavm said:


> I am still confused, How the dative case _mir _is determined in this sentence?


You can transform the sentence and say "Ich sehe Löwen ....., die *vor* mir *sind*. ('state' - cf. #7)


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## anahiseri

vaibhavm said:


> I am still confused, How the dative case _mir _is determined in this sentence?


*vor * can take the dative and also the accusative.

The dative is, as in your example, an answer to the question *wo? *(where, but asking about the place where sb or sth is.
- Wo sehe ich Löwen?

The accusative is used after *vor *when it's about movement. The question in German is *wohin?*
Wohin hat sich der Mann gestellt? --  Er hat sich *vor die Tür* gestellt, damit wir nicht hineingehen. -- Ist er noch da? -- Ja, er steht noch *vor der Tür.*


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## berndf

vaibhavm said:


> I am still confused, How the dative case _mir _is determined in this sentence?


Every preposition requires a specific case.

As @anahiseri wrote, the preposition _vor_ requires either dative or accusative. _Vor_+accusative describes a destination, _vor_+dative a location. In this case it describes a location and therefore dative is used.


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## vaibhavm

Can I say, "Ich sehe vor _*mich *_Geparde und Löwen."?


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## berndf

Not in conjunction with a direct object.  This would mean that *by looking* you *cause* them to get in front of you and that doesn't make sense. You can use it with an intransitive use of sehen to describe vor mich as the direction in which you are looking an use another propositional phrase to describe what you are seeing when you look in that direction:
_Ich sehe *vor* mich *auf* Geparde und Löwen_.
But that us a very different sentence.


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## vaibhavm

Will it be correct if I understand "in general Sentence can be made into momentive (accusative ) or locative (dative ) using Two-way prepositions."?


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## berndf

Very often, yes. But _in general_ is too bold a statement in my opinion.


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## anahiseri

berndf said:


> _Vor_+accusative describes a destination, _vor_+dative a location.



that's a good explanation, berndf!
But maybe we are confusing vaibhavm with too many possibilities and special cases. . . .  (and I'm including myself)


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## berndf

Yes, unfortunately _Wechselpräpositionen_ are a very complex topic with lots of special cases. This forum is full of questions about them.


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