# Urdu: Urdu: ہجے



## Gop

Qureshpor said:


> آپ کی پوسٹ میں ہجّوں اور گرامر کی چند غلطیاں ہیں بشمول آپ کے نام کے۔ اِنھیں درست کر لیجئے گا۔​


Qureshpor SaaHib, حجّوں (sing. حج؟) 
کی معنی کیا ہے؟


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## Qureshpor

گوپ صاحب۔ کیا میں نے حجّوں لکھا ہے؟


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## Gop

Qureshpor said:


> گوپ صاحب۔ کیا میں نے حجّوں لکھا ہے؟


بالکل نہیں۔ یہ میری تھکاوٹ کی غلطی ہے۔ آپنے تو ہجّوں لکھا ہے۔
I am sorry about this. I found ہِجا hijaa to mean spelling.
I suppose you mean by ہجّوں کی غلطیاں ‘spelling mistakes’.  Is hijjoN derived from hijaa? Or should it be pronounced hijjaa?


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## Qureshpor

Urdu Lughat

Platts considers "hijje" as vulgar (colloquial). However, Urdu LuGhat has "hijje" as in the above link.

H هجے _hije_, vulg. _hijje_ (fr. A. هِجاء, inf. n. of هجا (for هجو) 'to divide into syllables, to spell'), s.m. Spelling: — _hije karnā_, To syllable, to spell; — (_met._) to drive into a corner; — to probe (a matter): — _hije nikālnā_ (-_ke_ ?), To pull to pieces; to find fault (with).

You will notice H before هجے which we all know is not Hindi as we know it. H in Platts refers to a word that is not of Persian or Arabic origins but of Indic origins. Here we know that هجے is an "Urduized" form of the Arabic هِجاء.

By the way, in Urdu we don't write نے   joined with its agent, i.e آپ نے and not آپنے.

Yes, I meant "spelling mistakes".


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## Gop

Qureshpor said:


> Urdu Lughat
> 
> Platts considers "hijje" as vulgar (colloquial). However, Urdu LuGhat has "hijje" as in the above link.
> 
> H هجے _hije_, vulg. _hijje_ (fr. A. هِجاء, inf. n. of هجا (for هجو) 'to divide into syllables, to spell'), s.m. Spelling: — _hije karnā_, To syllable, to spell; — (_met._) to drive into a corner; — to probe (a matter): — _hije nikālnā_ (-_ke_ ?), To pull to pieces; to find fault (with).
> 
> You will notice H before هجے which we all know is not Hindi as we know it. H in Platts refers to a word that is not of Persian or Arabic origins but of Indic origins. Here we know that هجے is an "Urduized" form of the Arabic هِجاء.


What would be the nominative plural of “hijje”?
(Unfortunately for me, the link to Urdu Lughat cited by you does not work either on my ipad or my android mobile)


Qureshpor said:


> By the way, in Urdu we don't write نے   joined with its agent, i.e آپ نے and not آپ نے.


That was a typing mistake. Thanks Qureshpor SaaHib, for pointing it out.


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## aevynn

Gop said:


> What would be the nominative plural of “hijje”?



hijje is already the plural direct (eg, maiN ne 'hijje' ke _hijje_ Galat likhe ) I've at least only ever encountered this word in the plural, so this may be an example of a plurale tantum...?


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## Gop

aevynn said:


> hijje is already the plural direct (eg, maiN ne 'hijje' ke _hijje_ Galat likhe ) I've at least only ever encountered this word in the plural, so this may be an example of a plurale tantum...?


Kitabistan 20th century dictionary gives “hijaa” as singular and “hije (col. hijje)”” as plural.
Kitabistan's 20th century standard dictionary


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## aevynn

^ Interesting, thanks! I'd be curious to know if anyone has actually encountered the singular of hijje outside of a dictionary.


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> You will notice H before هجے which we all know is not Hindi as we know it. H in Platts refers to a word that is not of Persian or Arabic origins but of Indic origins. Here we know that هجے is an "Urduized" form of the Arabic هِجاء.



To be precise, H in Platts means “Hindustani or Hindi”. It doesn’t include Sanskrit (which is S) or Prakrit (which is Prk) words in their original forms (nor the original forms of Arabic, Persian, Turkic words). So H only represents the linguistic entities of Hindustani/Urdu/Hindi and includes the derivative or nativized forms of Sanskrit, Prakrit, Arabic, Persian, and Turkic words. In Platts’ usage, H also includes Braj and other dialects. In the case of “hije/hijje”, you will find it used in both Urdu and Hindi.


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## aevynn

^ In corroboration of this, I might note, for example, that Platts' entry for روانا is marked H while the entry for روانہ is marked P.


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> To be precise, H in Platts means “Hindustani or Hindi”. It doesn’t include Sanskrit (which is S) or Prakrit (which is Prk) words in their original forms. So H only represents the linguistic entities of Hindustani/Urdu/Hindi and includes the derivative or nativized forms of Sanskrit, Prakrit, Arabic, Persian, and Turkic words. In Platts’ usage, H also includes Braj and other dialects. In the case of “hije/hijje”, you will find it used in both Urdu and Hindi.


Thank you@desi4life. What's your source for the usage of H by Platts and the inclusion of Braj and other dialects within H? In his "A Grammar of the Hindustani or Urdu Language" written in 1874, ten years before his dictionary was completed, it is clear that he equates Hindustani with Urdu.

Can you provide a reference for this word's usage in Hindi


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you@desi4life. What's your source for the usage of H by Platts and its inclusion of Braj and other dialects? In his "A Grammar of the Hindustani or Urdu Language" written in 1874, ten years before his dictionary was completed, it is clear that he equates Hindustani with Urdu.
> 
> Can you provide a reference for this word's usage in Hindi



He defines H in the abbreviation section of his dictionary: A dictionary of Urdu, classical Hindi, and English. Abbreviations

All of the DSAL Hindi dictionaries have an entry for “hijje”. I’ve also heard it many times in spoken usage. Example from the Oxford dictionary: hijje हिज्जे hijje [A. _hijā_], m. syllabification, spelling. — ~ करना, to spell, &c.; to probe (a matter); to wrangle (over a matter). ~ निकालना, to find fault (with). ~ पकड़ना, to find mistakes (of detail: in).


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## aevynn

Qureshpor said:


> Can you provide a reference for this word's usage in Hindi



You might also try a Google search using the query "हिज्जे site:gadyakosh.org" and choose whatever result you'd be most happy calling "Hindi"


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> He defines H in the abbreviation section of his dictionary: A dictionary of Urdu, classical Hindi, and English. Abbreviations
> 
> All of the DSAL Hindi dictionaries have an entry for “hijje”. I’ve also heard it many times in spoken usage. Example from the Oxford dictionary: hijje हिज्जे hijje [A. _hijā_], m. syllabification, spelling. — ~ करना, to spell, &c.; to probe (a matter); to wrangle (over a matter). ~ निकालना, to find fault (with). ~ पकड़ना, to find mistakes (of detail: in).


Thank you desi4life Jii. It just says "Hidustani or Hindi". There is no mention of any other language. As a matter of interest, are you able to provide any examples from Hindi literature?


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## Qureshpor

aevynn said:


> ^ Interesting, thanks! I'd be curious to know if anyone has actually encountered the singular of hijje outside of a dictionary.
> 
> To the moderators: it may be a good idea to split this thread, starting with post #4 --- the new thread might be titled "Urdu: ہجے" or something like that.


Urdu Lughat  Click on isnaad.


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## desi4life

Qureshpor said:


> Thank you desi4life Jii. It just says "Hidustani or Hindi". There is no mention of any other language. As a matter of interest, are you able to provide any examples from Hindi literature?



Braj and other dialects are mentioned in individual entries. For example:

H تي तै _tai_ [S. तावत्], adj. (Braj), So many ( = _titne_): — _tai-ber_, adv. So many times, so often.

H همنی हमनी _hamanī_, or _hamnī_, pron. (Bhojpuri) = _ham_, q.v.: — _hamnī-kā_ = _hamārā_, q.v.: — _hamnī-ke_ = _hameṅ_, q.v.: — _hamnī-soṅ_ = _ham-se_, ablat. of _ham_.

H ايکر एकर _ekar_, pron. adj. (dialect.) = _iskā_, q.v.

Here are a couple of literary examples for hijje from a quick online search:

*शब्दों के अर्थ*
अब गड़बड़ा गए हैं बचपन में सीखे शब्दों के
ठीक-ठीक हिज्जे
*उमा शंकर चौधरी

ख़ाली होते हैं घर, लदता है सामान*
आप उबलते हुए दूध से नहीं धो सकते चेहरा चाहे कितना भी महँगा हो
लिखना कोई एक अक्षर और पूछना सौ हिज्जे, तीस कहानियाँ
*गौरव सोलंकी*


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## Qureshpor

desi4life said:


> Braj and other dialects are mentioned in individual entries. For example:
> 
> H تي तै _tai_ [S. तावत्], adj. (Braj), So many ( = _titne_): — _tai-ber_, adv. So many times, so often.
> 
> H همنی हमनी _hamanī_, or _hamnī_, pron. (Bhojpuri) = _ham_, q.v.: — _hamnī-kā_ = _hamārā_, q.v.: — _hamnī-ke_ = _hameṅ_, q.v.: — _hamnī-soṅ_ = _ham-se_, ablat. of _ham_.
> 
> H ايکر एकर _ekar_, pron. adj. (dialect.) = _iskā_, q.v.
> 
> Here are a couple of literary examples for hijje from a quick online search:
> 
> *शब्दों के अर्थ*
> अब गड़बड़ा गए हैं बचपन में सीखे शब्दों के
> ठीक-ठीक हिज्जे
> *उमा शंकर चौधरी
> 
> ख़ाली होते हैं घर, लदता है सामान*
> आप उबलते हुए दूध से नहीं धो सकते चेहरा चाहे कितना भी महँगा हो
> लिखना कोई एक अक्षर और पूछना सौ हिज्जे, तीस कहानियाँ
> *गौरव सोलंकी*


Thank you desi4life Jii.


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