# Macedonian: ušte vs povek´e vs pojše



## cr00mz

Hello WRF

I was wondering about these three words, I don't know if they are exclusive to Macedonian (probably not). The first 2 mean the same thing according to google translate, "more". Is this another one of those perfective/imperfective words?

Google doesn't seem to want to translate the third one, but I'm pretty sure it also means "more".

So anyone want to explain to me the differences?

thanks for the help


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## Kartof

I don't know Macedonian but the corresponding words in Bulgarian to the first two words you gave are още and повече, respectively.  I'm not familiar with the third word and I don't know if it has a Bulgarian cognate.

Since още and повече are adverbs, they don't have aspect and can't be considered perfective or imperfective.  They're merely synonyms. Their differences in meaning in Bulgarian are at most slight.  Maybe one difference in meaning could be that още has additional meaning such as *още повече *which means "even more" or *Аз още съм* which means "I still am".  Mind you, these are the Bulgarian meanings of the words and there might be a different construct for the Macedonian counterparts.


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## iobyo

_Уште _and _повеќе_ are separate words and, while almost synonymous, are used differently. _Појше_ is an elided form of _повише _(standard _повеќе_), a regionalism.


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## Arath

I can give an explanation for their use in Bulgarian. *Още *has more meanings than *повече*. *Още* can mean "additionally" and in this sense it's synonymous with *повече* which means "more".

*Трябват ми пет ябълки, а имам само четири. Трябват ми още/повече ябълки.* - I need five apples, but I have only four. I need more apples.

If you want to specify the exact number you need, you must use *още*, you can't use *повече*:

*Трябва ми още една ябълка*. - I need one more apple.

You can say "*Трябват ми повече от една ябълка.*", but that means "I need more than one apple."

*Още* (but not *повече*) is also used with comparatives for emphasis:

*Мария е хубава, Валентина е по-хубава, но Виктория е още по-хубава.* - Maria is beautiful, Valentina is more beautiful, but Victoria is even more beautiful.

*Още* (but not *повече*) also has the meaning of "still" in positive sentences and of "yet" in negative sentences:

*Той още спи*. - He's still sleeping.
*Той още не е пристигнал*. - He hasn't arrived yet.

*Още* (but not *повече*) is used with other adverbs (mostly of time) to intensify their meaning:

*Още сега ще ми кажеш истината*. - You will tell me the truth right now.
*още утре -* as early as tomorrow, not later than tomorrow, tomorrow at latest, first thing tomorrow

Grasping the difference is rather difficult, you can give me specific sentences and I'll tell you which one to use.


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## cr00mz

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

It doesn't seem to be too difficult. Perhaps all the uses of *ušte *can be a bit tricky. But as for the meaning of *more *it seems pretty straightforward.


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## Bog Svarog

cr00mz said:


> Hello WRF
> 
> I was wondering about these three words, I don't know if they are exclusive to Macedonian (probably not). The first 2 mean the same thing according to google translate, "more". Is this another one of those perfective/imperfective words?
> 
> Google doesn't seem to want to translate the third one, but I'm pretty sure it also means "more".
> 
> So anyone want to explain to me the differences?
> 
> thanks for the help


The difference is quite simple actually, be it just that English isn't a good language to explain it in.

In Dutch we have *nog* and *meer*, just as German has *noch* and *mehr*.

*nog/noch* = *уште*
*meer/mehr* = *повеќе*

If there are cognates in Swedish, you should be able to know the exact difference between them. 


Note: instead of *повише* you can also hear *више*, which is the more pure Serbian form of it.


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## iobyo

Bog Svarog said:


> The difference is quite simple actually, be it just that English isn't a good language to explain it in.



Tell me about it! I wrote up a huge list of examples and it looked confusing even to me.


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## DenisBiH

iobyo said:


> Tell me about it! I wrote up a huge list of examples and it looked confusing even to me.




iobyo, is  *уште* vs *повеќе* parallel to *još* vs *više*?


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## iobyo

DenisBiH said:


> iobyo, is  *уште* vs *повеќе* parallel to *još* vs *više*?



Yes, exactly.

The only slight difference is constructing _još uv(ij)ek_ (= сè уште).


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## cr00mz

Bog Svarog said:


> The difference is quite simple actually, be it just that English isn't a good language to explain it in.
> 
> In Dutch we have *nog* and *meer*, just as German has *noch* and *mehr*.
> 
> *nog/noch* = *уште*
> *meer/mehr* = *повеќе*
> 
> If there are cognates in Swedish, you should be able to know the exact difference between them.
> 
> 
> Note: instead of *повише* you can also hear *више*, which is the more pure Serbian form of it.



I studied German many years ago, luckily I have not forgotten everything, you're example makes perfect sense. Thanks for that. And yes we have something similar in Swedish as well

Also a quick question, Arath above mentioned that ušte in negative sentences can mean *yet*, as the sentence above _He hasn't arrived yet. _Would ušte be used if the sentence was _Has he arrived yet? _In a question.


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## Kartof

cr00mz said:


> Also a quick question, Arath above mentioned that ušte in negative sentences can mean *yet*, as the sentence above _He hasn't arrived yet. _Would ušte be used if the sentence was _Has he arrived yet? _In a question.



You could in some sentence constructions such as in:

*Той още не е ли пристигнал? *or *Не е ли пристигнал още? - Hasn't *he arrived yet?

But not in:

*Пристигнал ли е?* - *Has* he arrived yet?

EDIT: At least, that's how it works in Bulgarian, I don't know about Macedonian.


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## Bog Svarog

Kartof said:


> You could in some sentence constructions such as in:
> *Пристигнал ли е?* - *Has* he arrived yet?


*Пристигнал ли веќе?* Would be an option in Macedonian, but likewise there is no *уште*-construction like this. *Пристигна ли уште* would mean *did (even) more arrive*?
I don't know about Bulgarian, but in Macedonian, if you have to translate *yet*, it's better to use the *веќе*-construction as I've shown.
It's probably the same with *вече* in Bulgarian?


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## Arath

Bog Svarog said:


> *Пристигнал ли веќе?* Would be an option in Macedonian, but likewise there is no *уште*-construction like this. *Пристигна ли уште* would mean *did (even) more arrive*?
> I don't know about Bulgarian, but in Macedonian, if you have to translate *yet*, it's better to use the *веќе*-construction as I've shown.
> It's probably the same with *вече* in Bulgarian?



It's exactly the same. *"Още*" means that the state continues to be the same:

*Той още спи*. - He's still sleeping. (He continues to sleep.)
*Той още не е пристигнал*. - He hasn't arrived yet. (He continues not to be here/to be absent.)
*Той още ли не е пристигнал*? - Hasn't he arrived yet? (Does he continue to be absent.)

That's why you can't use it in "Has he arrived yet?", it doesn't make sense. You use "*вече*", which usually is translated as "already": 

*Вече пристигнал ли е?*
*Пристигнал ли е вече?*

"*Още*" in such constructions means that the action is done more than before:

*Още ли е остарял?* - Has he become even older?

So "*Още ли е пристигнал?*" would means something like "Has he arrived more (than he should)?, which is senseless.


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## Bog Svarog

Arath said:


> So "*Още ли е пристигнал?*" would means something like "Has he arrived more (than he should)?, which is senseless.


In Macedonian, *уште ли пристигнал?* could be used as a mockery.

Example: Pero (who is pretty drunk) tells Aco that Osama Bin Laden has just arrived at Pero's house. Aco then pulls out a newspaper, and shows the frontpage to Pero (the frontpage informs us of Osama's death occuring yesterday).
Pero then (with a mocking tone) asks Aco: "*уште ли пристигнал*?".
This could translate as: "So, did he still arrive?"


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## cr00mz

thanks for the answers, though i find the _vek´e _version a bit odd. Has he arrived already?! vs Has he arrived yet? in English at least to me has different meanings. The first one, the guy has already arrived, and it is said kind of surprisingly, as if you were expecting him to come later. While the second one, the guy has still not arrived, and you were expecting him sooner. That is how I interpret those 2 sentences. Perhaps the _vek´e_ sentence is not like *Has he arrived already?!*  Maybe this falls into one of those categories where word for word translation is not possible. Am i wrong?


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## Arath

I looked it up on the internet and I think that you're right about the difference between "Has he arrived already?" and "Has he arrived yet?", but you'll have to ask a native English speaker for confirmation. 

In Bulgarian (if there are differences in Macedonian, feel free to correct me) "вече" in questions corresponds to "yet" in questions, "вече" in positive sentences corresponds to "already" in positive sentences. "вече" has additional meanings but I don't know if you want to be confused any more.

Вече пристигнал ли е? – Has he arrived yet?
Вече е пристигнал. - He has already arrived.

The surprise in the question "Has he arrived already?!" might be expressed with a positive sentence with "вече" and appropriate intonation:

Вече е пристингал?! - He has arrived already?! (said in a surprised voice)

"Още" when used with verbs means that the state described by the verb continues. Sleeping and not arriving are states (not arriving somewhere implies absence from somewhere which is a state) and that's why we can use "още" with them. Arriving somewhere is not a state, it's an action which happens instantaneously and it doesn't go with "още".

Bog Svarog's explanations actually made sense to me, and "още" can be used with instantaneous actions with the meaning "Is that still true, is that still the case." For example you see X do something bad, and you tell X: "Ще те издам" ("I'll tell on you"), then X threatens you and asks "Още ли ще ме издадеш?" ("Are you still gonna tell on me?"). I don't know if you understood his explanation but here's a brief analysis, after Aco establishes that Osama is dead he asks Pero "Още ли е пристигнал?" (Do you still cling to your statement that Osama has arrived? Is that still the case?)


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## cr00mz

@Arath

yeah i think i understand.

Also about *Вече*, does it always come first in the sentence? or can it come in the middle or the end?


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## Arath

In Bulgarian word order is fairly free, so one can say:

*Вече пристигнал ли е?* or *Пристигнал ли е вече?*
*Още не е пристигнал.* or *Не е пристигнал още.*
*Още ли не е пристигнал?* or *Не е ли пристигнал още?*


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