# Hindi/Urdu/Persian: Paadshaah



## tarkshya

The most common word for emperor in Hindi/Urdu is baadshaah. However, as far as I can tell the word is a misspelling. The original word, coming from Persian, is paadshaah.

Turning paadshaah into baadshaah by people, say Arabs, is understandable because Arabic lacks the /p/ phoneme. (Hence the "bizza hut" and "bebsi can" jokes on Arabs). However, Indians are perfectly capable of pronouncing paadshaah accurately. So why would they adopt a different pronunciation?

My guess is same as all native Hindi/Urdu speaker's guess. "Paadshaah"'s scatological connotations can give rise to unintended humor. Is it what other forum members think too?

Second question. When did this switch from paadshaah to baadshaah occured in Indian literature? I was checking some medieval era texts, and noticed that the use of paadshaah was very frequent till as late as Aurangzeb's time. It must have taken place after that period.


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## PersoLatin

tarkshya said:


> "Paadshaah"'s scatological connotations


Just an observation, if baadshaah replaced the original paddshaah because of above connotations, then how is baadshaah less so, when bâd in Persian, and I'm sure in Urdu, means 'wind'?


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## Alfaaz

Urdu:


			
				tarkshya said:
			
		

> The most common word for emperor in Hindi/Urdu is baadshaah.


 بادشاہ is actually often used for _king_, while there are other words for _emperor _(Urdu: Empress as opposed to Emperor).

The rest of the questions deal with the interesting topic of معرّبات - _mu3arrabaat_! The topic is interesting because in some instances only one form of a word has remained current (for one reason or another), while in other cases both forms are current and might have even acquired slightly different additional usages. 

Examples:

*اصل لفظ ← معرّب*
پیل ← فیل
شترنگ ← شطرنج
شلغم ← شلجم
نارنگ ↔ نارنج
لشکر/لشکری ↔ عسکر/عسکری
لگام ↔ لجام
گوہر ↔ جوہر​


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## marrish

[Urdu:]
Professor Shamsur Rahman Faruqi who happens to be an Indian, writes in his luGhaat-e-roz-marrah, and I'm reproducing:

بادشاہ:  دیکھئے: بادشاہت۔

بادشاہت: بعض لوگوں کا خیال ہے کہ فارسی لفظ بادشاہ پر عربی کی تاے مصدری لگا کر بادشاہت بنانا غلط ہے لہٰذا یہ لفظ واجب الترک ہے۔ یہ رائے درست نہیں۔ بادشاہت اردو کا لفظ ہے، عربی فارسی میں نہیں ہے۔ نزاکت، فلاکت کی طرح یہ لفظ بھی اہل اردو نے اختراع کیا ہے۔ یہ اب بادشاہی کے معنی میں ہمارے یہاں رائج ہو گیا ہے۔ عربی فارسی میں یہ غلط ہو گا لیکن اردو میں درست ہے۔ واضح رہے کہ یہ لفظ سراسر اردو ہے، یعنی فارسی میں نہ بادشاہت ہے نہ پادشاہت۔ یہ بھی ملحوظ رہے کہ فارسی میں بادشاہ بھی نہیں ہے، صرف پادشاہ ہے۔ اہل اردو نے غالباً پہلوے ذم کو مد نظر رکھ کر پاد کو باد کر دیا۔ یہ اور بات ہے کہ بادشاہی کے ہوتے ہوئے بادشاہت کی ضرورت نہ تھی۔ اگر یہ نیا لفظ ہوتا تو اس بنا پر میں اس کی مخالفت کرتا لیکن اب یہ مدت سے رائج ہے، اسے نکالنے کی کوئی وجہ اب نہیں۔ شیکسپیئر، فیلن، آصفیہ، نور، سب نے اسے جگہ دی ہے۔

[For Hindi speakers]
_*baadshaah*: dekhi'e: baadshaahat.
*baadshaahat*: ba3z logoN kaa xayaal hae kih faarsii lafz baadshaah par 3arabii kii taa-e-masdarii lagaa kar baadshaahat banaanaa Ghalat hae lihaazaa yih lafz waajibul tark hae. yih raa'e durust nahiiN. baadshaahat urduu kaa lafz hae, 3arabii faarsii meN nahiiN hae. nazaakat, falaakat kii taraH yih lafz bhii ahl-e-urduu ne ixtiraa3 kiyaa hae. yih ab baadshaahii ke ma3nii meN hamaare yahaaN raa'ij ho gayaa hae. 3arabii faarsii meN yih lafz Ghalat ho gaa lekin urduu meN durust hae. waaziH rahe kih yih lafz saraasar urduu hae, ya3nii faarsii meN nah baadshaahat hae nah paadshaahat. yih bhii malHuuz rahe kih faarsii meN baadshaah bhii nahiiN hae, sirf paadshaah hae. ahl-e-urduu ne Ghaalib_an pahluu-e-zamm ko madd-e-nazar rakh kar paad ko baad kar diyaa. yih aur baat hae kih baadshaahii ke hote baadshaahat kii zaruurat nah thii. agar yih nayaa lafz hotaa to is binaa par maiN is kii muxaalifat kartaa lekin ab yih muddat se raa'ij hae, ise nikaalne kii ko'ii waj_h ab nahiiN. Shakespear, Fallon, Asafiyyah, Nuur, sab ne ise jagah dii hae._

[For whatever speakers] baadshaah: see: baadshaahat.
baadshaahat: In some people's opinion it is wrong to form "baadshaahat" on Persian word "baadshaah" by applying Arabic 'taa' masdarii, therefore this word ought to be discarded. This opinion is not correct. 'baadshaahat' is an Urdu word, it is not there in Arabic and Persian. On the pattern of 'nazaakat' and 'falaakat', this word has been an invention by Urdu speakers as well. Now, this word has become current in our place in the sense of 'baadshaahii'. It might be wrong in Arabic or Persian but it is correct in Urdu. Let it be clear that this word is Urdu throughout, i.e. in Persian there is neither 'baadshaahat' nor 'paadshaahat'. It ought to be remembered as well that Persian has no 'baadshaah' either, only 'paadshaah'. Urdu speakers have most probably kept the detracting aspect in mind and made 'baad' out of 'paad (fart). There was no need for 'baadshaahat' while having 'baadshaahii' to begin with but it is another matter. Had this word been a new one then I would have had opposed it on this ground but now it's been quite a long time in usage and there is no reason to eradicate it anymore. Shakespear, Asafiyyah, Noor (dictionaries), all of them have given it a place.


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## Stranger_

Since we are on the topic of "baadshaah", then may I ask you what the phrase "baadshaah salaamat" means and why the word "salaamat" is attached to "baadshaah"?


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## tarkshya

PersoLatin said:


> Just an observation, if baadshaah replaced the original paddshaah because of above connotations, then how is baadshaah less so, when bâd in Persian, and I'm sure in Urdu, means 'wind'?



baad is virtually unknown in Hindi, except in Hindi movie songs. But movie songs anyway tread  the opaque territory between Hindi and Urdu. In Urdu, yes - baad is present, but it simply means wind without any pleasant or unpleasant connotations. May be that is why baadshaah was coined as a euphemism for paadshaah.


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## tarkshya

marrish said:


> yih bhii malHuuz rahe kih faarsii meN baadshaah bhii nahiiN hae, sirf paadshaah hae. ahl-e-urduu ne Ghaalib_an pahluu-e-zamm ko madd-e-nazar rakh kar paad ko baad kar diyaa.



Precisely my point . This baadshaah word was coined specifically to avoid any reference to farts.


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## PersoLatin

There's a brand of rice here in the UK called بادشاه, I suppose as a native Persian speaker, I will continue to smile when I see that brand, especially now, as I know the reason for the change from پ to ب.


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## Abu Talha

tarkshya said:


> In Urdu, yes - _baad_ is present, but it simply means wind without any pleasant or unpleasant connotations. May be that is why baadshaah was coined as a euphemism for paadshaah.


In fact, _baad_ can be associated with flatulence. Describing a food as _baadi_ can be a way of saying that it causes flatulence. But it is just like "gas" or "wind" in English where "gassy" and "breaking wind" are associated with flatulence but "gas" and "wind" themselves do not immediately connote this.

_paad_, however, can only mean "fart".

By the way, is Urdu/Hindi _paad_ etymologically related to Persian _baad_?


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## Abu Talha

Also, I see that بادشاه is listed in Dehkhoda and Hayyim. Is/was this word then known in Persian or is it added from Indo-Persian diction?


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## PersoLatin

Abu Talha said:


> By the way, is Urdu/Hindi _paad_ etymologically related to Persian _baad_?



I believe it is:

wind (n.1) 


"air in motion," Old English wind "wind," from Proto-Germanic *windaz (source also of Old Saxon, Old Frisian, Middle Dutch, Dutch wind, Old Norse vindr, Old High German wind, German Wind, Gothic winds), from PIE *we-nt-o- "blowing," from root *we- "to blow" (source also of Sanskrit va-, Greek aemi-, Gothic waian, Old English wawan, Old High German wajan, German wehen, Old Church Slavonic vejati "to blow;" Sanskrit vatah, Avestan vata-, Hittite huwantis, Latin ventus, Old Church Slavonic vetru, Lithuanian vejas "wind;" Lithuanian vetra "tempest, storm;" Old Irish feth "air;" Welsh gwynt, Breton gwent "wind").


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## Dib

Abu Talha said:


> By the way, is Urdu/Hindi _paad_ etymologically related to Persian _baad_?



Nope. PersoLatin has quoted the etymology of Persian baad, etc. Urdu _paad_ has an equally ancient etymology, but different. It comes from the Sanskrit verb pard- (pardate = he/she farts). In fact, it is cognate to English fart, Russian perd- (перде́ть), etc.

Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/perd- - Wiktionary


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## PersoLatin

Abu Talha said:


> Also, I see that بادشاه is listed in Dehkhoda and Hayyim. Is/was this word then known in Persian or is it added from Indo-Persian diction?


 Maybe بادشاه was used in Persian but fell out of favour for the same reason پادشاه did, in Hindi. Dictionaries list words based on use, the frequency or correctness of use, is not always a consideration.


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## Abu Talha

Dib said:


> Nope. PersoLatin has quoted the etymology of Persian baad, etc. Urdu _paad_ has an equally ancient etymology, but different. It comes from the Sanskrit verb pard- (pardate = he/she farts). In fact, it is cognate to English fart, Russian perd- (перде́ть), etc.
> 
> Reconstruction:Proto-Indo-European/perd- - Wiktionary


Thanks.

Does the Indic cognate of Persian _baad_ then exist in Hindi (or other North Indian languages)?

Conversely, does Persian have a cognate to Indic _paad_?


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## mundiya

Abu Talha said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Does the Indic cognate of Persian _baad_ then exist in Hindi (or other North Indian languages)?
> 
> Conversely, does Persian have a cognate to Indic _paad_?



Yes, cognates of Persian _baad_ do exist, but since Indic has two related words as represented by Skt. "vaayu" and "vaata", it becomes difficult to determine with certainty which of the two is the source of derivatives. 

Focusing on baav/baa'o/baa'u, notice what Platts has to say:

H باو बाव, बाओ, _bāv_, _bāʼo_ [S. वात, rt. वा], s.f. Wind, air (syn. _hawā_); *flatulency*; rheumatism (=_bāʼe_); the pox, syphilis; a bubo:—_bāʼo bāṅdhnā_, To employ flattery or raillery as a means of overcoming an adversary:—_bāʼo-batās_ (S. _vāta_+_vāta_+_āsa_), s.f. Wind-disease; influence of or possession by an evil spirit (syn. _āseb_):—_bāʼo-birang_, _bāʼo-barang_, s.m.=_bāʼe-birang_, q.v.s.v.:—_bāʼo-bandī_, s.f. Vain attempt (to do anything), futile effort; vain imagination, castle-building; sophistry; exaggerated praise of an unworthy object:—_bāʼo-bharī-khāl_, _lit_. 'A skin filled with wind'; a mere wind-bag, a person of little estimation; a person of little or no stamina:—_bāʼo bhaṛaknā_, v.n. To rage like a whirlwind, to be mad, crazy, &c.; to rave, prate, talk nonsense; to be quarrelsome:—_bāʼo-bhak_, _baʼo-jhak_, s.f. Prating, twaddle, idle talk, nonsense;—s.m. Prater, babbler, idle talker:—*bāʼo sarnā, v.n. To break wind*:—_bāʼo-sūl_ (S. _vāta_+_śūla_), s.m. The colic; pain in the stomach:—_bāʼo-kā rūkh batānā_, v.t. To make a fool of, impose on, deceive, cheat:—_bāʼo khānā_, v.n. To live in pleasure and enjoyment; to court (one's) inspirations, to lead a protracted and miserable existence:—_bāʼo-khumbā_, s.m. An astringent medicine made from the bark of the _khumb_, or _Careya arborea_:—_bāʼo-ke ghoṛe-par sawār honā_, To fly with the wind, be as swift as the wind; to be puffed up, be conceited or vain;—_baʼo-gola_ (S. _vāta-gulma_), s.m. Colic; flatulency with impaired function of the bowels; acute gout; rheumatism:—_bāʼo lenā_, v.n. To suck in the wind; wind-sucking (a defect in horses).


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## mundiya

Does the word "baadshaah" exist in Arabic? If it does, then another potential reason for the change in pronunciation to baadshaah in Hindi and Urdu might simply have to do with Persian speaking immigrants from Central Asia to India being more influenced by the Arabic pronunciation of this word. It would then be understandable why baadshaah became the more common pronunciation in Urdu and Hindi.


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## PersoLatin

Abu Talha said:


> Conversely, does Persian have a cognate to Indic _paad_?


I don't know one for paad but maybe one for Sanskrit pard-, and that is the Persian word پَرت - part, it means, throw, spread, but I can't find any etymology for it.


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## Abu Talha

Thanks mundiya, PersoLatin.





mundiya said:


> Does the word "baadshaah" exist in Arabic?


I can find a couple of references to البادشاه and even الفادشاه online. I would say if it's used it's very rare. But I'm not sure if that points to an Arabic borrowing causing the p changing to b in Urdu.

Related, شاهنشاه was definitely known in Arabic.


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## fdb

Abu Talha said:


> Also, I see that بادشاه is listed in Dehkhoda and Hayyim. Is/was this word then known in Persian or is it added from Indo-Persian diction?



The references in Dikhoda are all to Indo-Persian dictionaries.


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## Abu Talha

fdb said:


> The references in Dikhoda are all to Indo-Persian dictionaries.


Thanks fdb.


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