# There is supposed to be



## Ramisadeh

I struggled to say to a nurse: there was supposed to be a new patient admitted into the ward today. In turkish

I tried to look it up in dictionaries and tried to use google translate but the results are so various and confusing. I am not going to post any of what have found in order not to lead anyone. I just want you to help me learn how to say .. Supposed to .. Plain and simple (which is never the case with turkish lol)


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## Rallino

The first option that comes to my mind is "-miş olması gerekiyor".

Bugün hastaneye yeni bir hastanın yatmış olması gerekiyor.


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## Ramisadeh

Rallino said:


> The first option that comes to my mind is "-miş olması gerekiyor".
> 
> Bugün hastaneye yeni bir hastanın yatmış olması gerekiyor.


That's it?? But what if I needed to use other verbs, for example: you were supposed to study today.
Will it become:
Bugün çalışman gerkiyor

What if I needed to say supposed to be; for example: this car is supposed to be clean

Is it: Bu araba temiz olması gerekiyor?

Are there other simple ways to convey the meaning of supposed to ...


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## Rallino

You were supposed to study today - *Bugün çalışman gerekiyordu.
*
The car is supposed to be clean - *Arabanın temiz olması gerekiyor.

*


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## garipx

I see in google translation that "...supposed to..." is translated as "...gerekiyor.." 
But, this "gereklilik" is rarely used by majority of people here. There is a better, simple word, "lazım." 

Eg. this car is supposed to be clean = bu araba temiz olması lazım. 
However, if you don't confuse it with "must", it is often said in daily life without "lazım" or "gerekli".
Example. I am supposed to work today=bugün, çalışmam lazım=bugün çalışmalıyım.

Anyway, you can probably confuse. So, use "lazım" more, easier and better, also used widely, more than "gerekli".


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## Rallino

garipx said:


> Eg. this car is supposed to be clean = bu araba temiz olması lazım.


Arabanın*.


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## garipx

"bu arabanın temiz olması lazım"? özne ne burada?
"bu araba temiz olması lazım" özne burada daha belli, "bu araba", daha az kafa karışır özellikle Türkçeye yabancılar için.

"bu arabanın temizliği gerekli" demiş olsam doğru olur, özne "arabanın temizliği" olmuş olur.


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## Rallino

?????

Yabancıların kafasının karışması bizi ilgilendirmiyor. "Bu araba temiz olması lazım" yanlış bir cümle. Kimse böyle demez.

*Bu arabanın temiz olması lazım. *doğru kullanım.

Özne: _bu arabanın temiz olması_.


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## emre aydın

Rallino said:


> ?????
> 
> Yabancıların kafasının karışması bizi ilgilendirmiyor. "Bu araba temiz olması lazım" yanlış bir cümle. Kimse böyle demez.
> 
> *Bu arabanın temiz olması lazım. *doğru kullanım.
> 
> Özne: _bu arabanın temiz olması_.



Her kelimesiyle aynı fikirdeyim.


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## Ramisadeh

So is it safe to say that there is no difference between has to and supposed to in Turkish, because you know there is a difference between the two concepts in english and I can say that in Arabic we distinguish between the two concepts as well.


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## emre aydın

Ramisadeh said:


> there is no difference between has to and supposed to in Turkish



I think so. You can use "gerek" and "lazım" for both.


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## garipx

Ramisadeh said:


> So is it safe to say that there is no difference between has to and supposed to in Turkish, because you know there is a difference between the two concepts in english and I can say that in Arabic we distinguish between the two concepts as well.



In spoken Turkish language, we don't often say "lazım", "gerekli", etc. We say a sentence as short as possible, that's the rule in spoken Turkish. (another reason why agglunations are often derived). Therefore, in spoken language, for ex, we just say "araba temiz olmalı" instead of "arabanın temiz olması gerekli" or "araba/nın temiz olması lazım", etc. However, there may be confusion in your mind when you hear "araba temiz olmalı" and you may question whether it is "car must be cean" or "car has to be clean" or "car is supposed to be clean", etc. To understand what is really meant, try to catch the rest of conversation. 

However, in written language, we need to find some proper words corresponding each case for "one-to-one" translations. 
My rule is I use these, for "must"="-meli/malı" as everybody does, for "has to"=-zorunlu/gerekli and "supposed to"=gerekli/lazım/(güya)-mali/farzedelim (as in the math, suppose x=real number.) . Although "farz", originally Arabic, also used in Turkish for "obligatory" cases, when it is said "farzedelim", it becomes like "supposed to" or "let it", also close to "assume", but, we have a word for "assume", "varsayalım." 

So, as a summary, translations of "car is supposed to be clean" are:  "araba temiz olmalı" (in spoken language) and "arabanın temizliği lazım/gerekli/farzedilir."


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## garipx

I also need to say this. (moderator, please, don't delete this, relevant to this thread.)

Ramisadeh, as you see in my previous post, I translated all of these "car must be clean", "car has to be clean" and "car is supposed to be clean" as only "araba temiz olmalı". This is in spoken Turkish, that's, I followed "as short as possible" rule in Turkish in particular, Turkic in general or "agglunitative" languages (Ural-Altaic languages) in more general. This makes Turkish (and other agglunitave languages) poorer in number of words while richer in meanings of each word. On the other hand, Indo-Euro and Sami languages are richer in number of words and of course, that results in poorness in meanings of each words. I classify languages into two groups; "discrete/differential" languages (Indo Euro Sami etc languages) and "continuous/integral" languages (agglunitative languages, Ural-Altaic languages which include Turkish too.) Note that Ottomanish is a mixture of them, is an "integro-differential" language (if you read some math, you probably understand what I mean. Languages are symbolic mathematics.)

So, one-to-one translation between languages in the same group, for ex, in discrete group, for ex, between English and Arabic, is easier as there are many words expressing different things in each of them. This is different between two languages in two different groups "discrete" and "continuous" groups, for example, between English/Arabic and Turkish, one-to-one translations should not be sought. So, if you are learning Turkish for conversation  with ordinary folk, try to get used to "less word more meaning."


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## AngelsRolls

garipx said:


> arabanın temizliği lazım/gerekli/farzedilir



Sıradan bir ana dil konuşanı olarak bu cümle bana tuhaf geldi.

Arabanın temizliği lazım 
Arabanın temizlenmesi lazım 
Saçlarının kesimi lazım 
Saçlarının kesilmesi lazım


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## analeeh

Rallino said:


> The first option that comes to my mind is "-miş olması gerekiyor".
> 
> Bugün hastaneye yeni bir hastanın yatmış olması gerekiyor.



So this would carry the meaning of 'I had understood that a new patient was going to be checked in today'/'a new patient should have been checked in today' (but we don't know if she was or not)?


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## emre aydın

She probably was but we can't know for sure.


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## garipx

"arabanın temizliği lazım/gerekli/farzedilir"



AngelsRolls said:


> Sıradan bir ana dil konuşanı olarak bu cümle bana tuhaf geldi.



Tuhaf olan şey, zaten "lazım/gerekli/farzedilir" gibi kelimeler ekleyerek, mesela, "arabanın temiz olması gerekli" gibi lafı uzatmaktır. Bu şekilde lüzümsuz uzatmalar, Osmanlıca dilden kalma alışkanlıklar. Zaten, "Istanbul türkçesi" denilen dil, aslında Osmanlıca denilen dilin evrilmiş hali. Gerçekten ana dili, "anadolu türkçesi" konuşulmuş olsa, "arabanın temiz olması gerekliliği lüzümludur filan" gibi laf uzatılmaz, kısaca, "araba temiz olmalı" denilir geçilir. Ingilizce, Farsça, Arapça gibi Altaic dillerden olmayan dillerdeki cümlelere tam karşılık bulmak için debelenmenin sonucudur Osmanlıca ve yazmış olduğunuz "Istanbul Türkçesi". Neyse, bunu, yukarıdaki, bir önceki ingilizce yazımda açıklamıştım. 

Türkçe olarak yine yazayım: 

Ingilizce cümleler: 
1- Car is supposed to be clean.
2- Car must be clean.
3- Car has to be clean.

Bunların hepsinin tercümesi Türkçede aynı, kısaca, "araba temiz olmalı." Anlaşıldı mı?


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## Ramisadeh

garipx said:


> I also need to say this. (moderator, please, don't delete this, relevant to this thread.)
> 
> Ramisadeh, as you see in my previous post, I translated all of these "car must be clean", "car has to be clean" and "car is supposed to be clean" as only "araba temiz olmalı". This is in spoken Turkish, that's, I followed "as short as possible" rule in Turkish in particular, Turkic in general or "agglunitative" languages (Ural-Altaic languages) in more general. This makes Turkish (and other agglunitave languages) poorer in number of words while richer in meanings of each word. On the other hand, Indo-Euro and Sami languages are richer in number of words and of course, that results in poorness in meanings of each words. I classify languages into two groups; "discrete/differential" languages (Indo Euro Sami etc languages) and "continuous/integral" languages (agglunitative languages, Ural-Altaic languages which include Turkish too.) Note that Ottomanish is a mixture of them, is an "integro-differential" language (if you read some math, you probably understand what I mean. Languages are symbolic mathematics.)
> 
> So, one-to-one translation between languages in the same group, for ex, in discrete group, for ex, between English and Arabic, is easier as there are many words expressing different things in each of them. This is different between two languages in two different groups "discrete" and "continuous" groups, for example, between English/Arabic and Turkish, one-to-one translations should not be sought. So, if you are learning Turkish for conversation  with ordinary folk, try to get used to "less word more meaning."



Thank you so much for your input, I understand now. 

And thanks to everyone else as well; all of your replies were eye opening.


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