# Piedmontese dialect



## Etcetera

Ciao!
I've started to study Italian recently, and I love this language - it's so beautiful and interesting! And as I'm immensely interested in the history of the kingdom of Sardinia-Piedmont, I also have some interest in the Piedmontese dialect. All I know about it so far is that it is closer to French than to Italian... 
So, I'd like to ask you about the dialect. Is it still spoken today? And what are the specific features of it?


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## sciarada

All I can tell you is that is piemontese and not piedmontese, a part from that generally people from the north part of Italy tend not to speak their dialect any more even if you might find some few expressions in everyday conversation. Elderly people still speak it anyway. It is so god to hear that someone is still interested in Italian dialects it would be a grat pity to lose them!


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## Saoul

Well having spent a few years in Piemonte myself, I have to tell you that Piemontese is quite common, also among young people. 
They don't generally use it for conversational purposes, but it is absolutely common as "slang", or colloquial/familiar expressions. 
This is kind of considerable in small towns. 
Please consider also that Piemonte is quite large, so Asti dialect is definitely different from Cuneo dialect. Cuneo dialect itself is quite different in some areas of Cuneo province, since it is one of the biggest in Italy. In the very north of Cuneo province, a particular French-like dialect called "patois" is almost impossible to understand to people living in the south area of the province.
You'll find that this dialect has strong similies toward French but still resemble Italian a lot. 

There's still a lot to say about this, but you can maybe direct us toward you interest points...

EDIT: T Y P O


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## Etcetera

Thank you, Saoul! And what about the variety spoken in the province of Torino? Can you say a few words about it as well?

And it would be also very interesting to hear more about the differences between local varieties of Piemontese!


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## You little ripper!

One thing I found quite amusing about the Turinese is that they have the tendency to add 'neh' to vitually everything they say. "Ciao neh!" "Buona sera neh signora!"


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## primo_cerchio

Piemontese dialecte is sort of a mix between french italian and provencal.

It is widely spoken in the western an area of the Piedmont region that used to belong to the Savoy duchy in the middle ages.

It is spoken by people of all ages but is the mother tongue of elderly people.
As for other italian dialects mass scholarization and television have spread the use of Italian in all classes.

Real Piemontese is spoken in the provinces of Turin Cuneo Asti Vercelli and Biella.

Eastern provinces as Novara and Alessandria which have a different history use different dialects closer to milanese.

It has also a different spelling.
For example O is read U .

I really would'nt say that it is closer to french that to Italian. It is a neoromance dialect as Catalan or French or Italian itself.

Some one said that a Language is a dialect with an army


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## Saoul

You're welcome Etcetera. 

I would like some friends from Piemonte to help in this. I have never lived in Torino, or in any place near Torino. 
Being Torino Capoluogo di Provincia, so Piemonte Chieftown, I presume that its dialect is somehow considered the official dialect. This is just me guessing.
I was given a sort of difficult explanation about the different pronunciations of "milk" in Asti, Southern Cuneo Province, Northern Cuneo Province, Vercelli... but I'm afraid I cannot write the sounds, and since this is all about the sound, my attempt would be poor.


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## primo_cerchio

I live in the northern part of torino province.
Dialects changes between villages few miles apart but generally speaking people from Cuneo Asti and Ivrea can talk their dialect together quite well.

There is also dialectal literature and poetry.


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## You little ripper!

You may find this interesting Etcetera. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piemontese_language


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## Etcetera

Yes, I know about O read as U. 
About half a year ago I came over an article about Turin, and the author of it stated that 'Turin' is the English-German variant of the Italian 'Torino'. It seemed to me so odd (I'm an English major, so I have a certain knowledge about all the phonetical processes in English), that I tried to find as much as I could about the city's name in Italian. And I found out that the Piemontese name for it was 'Turin'... BTW, we Russians pronounce that in the same way as the Piemontese.
Thanks for your answer, primo cerchio! 

And is Piemontese dialect now taught to children at schools, for example? Or parents have to teach their children themselves if they want them to know it?


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## Etcetera

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> You may find this interesting Etcetera.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piemontese_language


Thanks a lot! That's very useful indeed, but this article's too short, to my taste... And after Saoul's mentioning the local varieties of Piemontese, I just want to know more about them.


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## primo_cerchio

Piedmontese is not taught in school.
parents do no "teach" their children to use it.

There are people and also political parties that want to introduce teaching of dialects at school but i strongly disagree.

I think tha t dialects are a thing of the past to be revered and preserved as memories but that to live in a global world more people share the same language thew best it is.


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## Etcetera

primo_cerchio said:
			
		

> Piedmontese is not taught in school.
> parents do no "teach" their children to use it.
> 
> There are people and also political parties that want to introduce teaching of dialects at school but i strongly disagree.
> 
> I think tha t dialects are a thing of the past to be revered and preserved as memories but that to live in a global world more people share the same language thew best it is.


But what about being bilingual? Most children can easily learn two languages - here at Wordreference Forims there's so many people who claim themselves to have two or even more mothertongues.


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## primo_cerchio

I think that being bilingual in case one of the tongues is a dialect is something of a burden and not a liability.

This is of course a personal opinion.

AS I told before dialects are languages that had less luck than others in history


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## Etcetera

primo_cerchio said:
			
		

> AS I told before dialects are languages that had less luck than others in history


 
I agree wholeheartedly. 
And the dialect chosen as an official language is rather often the dialect of the capital. So, who can say what would be if Turin remained to be the capital of Italy after 1864...


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## primo_cerchio

I think that the cultural milieu in wich Italy reached Unity in 1861 was so strongly nationalistic that Italian as the language more widespread in the intelligentsiya would have remained the country language even if Turin had been the capital ever since.

Nobody spoke Italian but every literate wrote it


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## Etcetera

Maybe... I remember that Vittorio Alfieri preferred to write in Italian, because he considered his native Piemontese to be too coarse for literature. Sort of...


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## primo_cerchio

Italy was a nation also when it was divided.

Scholars and poets and musicians shared a common language .
It was Italian

After the renaissance ant until 1700 Italian was the language of music culture and science all over Europe.

Even when the king of Sardinia spoke only French and Piedmontese at school in Piedmont lessons were in Latin and Italian.


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## giully

Hello,

there is a specific cultural association in Turin that deals with the dialect's preservation and even teaches it. The association also covers other aspect of the regional customs. 

It is very true that young people who has the chance to spend some time with granparents from Piemonte do undesrant the dialect and use it for fun. I do.

Furthermore, there is a very famous singer, called Gipo Farassino, that sings in Piemontese. 

ciarea né (which means see you°


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## Etcetera

Hi giully, 
that sounds very interesting;can I find any Farassino's records on the Net?


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## panjabigator

So do parents speak in standard Italian with their children or the dialect?  Why is it discouraged so?  Is their a particular accent that this dialect carries?  

I personally feel that the dialect should be spoken and taught...and perhaps that can lead to standardization.


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## Etcetera

panjabigator said:
			
		

> I personally feel that the dialect should be spoken and taught...and perhaps that can lead to standardization.


 I agree with you that people shouldn't forget the language of the place where they were born and live. 
But what do you mean by 'standartisation' here?


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## panjabigator

The dialect should maybe produce its own standard for literature, writing etc.  Then people can actively engage in writing in their mother tongue and it will grow to be accepted.


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## Etcetera

But to my knowledge, there *is* some standard in Piedmontese. And some rather clear regional varieties - for example, the variety of Monferrato.


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## Wolverine

Hi.
Here's a post from a piemontese boy.

I'm form turin ( in a town which is 20 km north)
I spoke piemontese in a common way but i'm perfectly able to understand it because of my grandfather, he only speaks it.
This dialect has lots of veriety, sometimes different from town to town, but there is a large base of expressions that are similar.
I think that there are macro zones of similitudes.
Turin and the province, Cuneo, Asti (monferrato) and something like this.

If I hear a person from Asti, it's probable that I can understand something but not all..

Here's a link on which you can find something in piemontese, with the translation in Italian.

http://www.dialettando.com/regioni/Piemonte.lasso

But it's better hearing it.. reading it it's very difficult for the pronunciation.

Enjoy


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## Etcetera

Ciau Wolverine,
thank you for your replying here! 
Yes, I find it rather difficult to read in Piemontese, due to these rules of reading. I think I''l try to find any resources with audio records of Piemontese.


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## panjabigator

Etcetera, when you find these sound files, can you send me the links and tell me where to click because I cant read Italian  thanks!


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## Wolverine

Ciao.

If you don't find any audio file in _piemontese _I'll give you the phone number of my grandfather... (i'm jokin' ..) 

Good luck
Arvd'se  (which I believe it's written with a lot of mistakes but means _arrivederci_ in a not formal way)

Gigi


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## lattecaffe

Is a very interesting topic.

I would give one more little detail...

After the last Torino 2006 olympic games, our beautiful town is *Torino* all over the world, and no more Turin...

ciau Etcetera


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## Etcetera

Ciau Lattecaffe! 
Interestingly enough, the original, Piemontese, name of the city is *Turin*. And I like the Piemontese variant more than the Italian... It's a matter of taste, of course. 
In Russian, we call the city Turin, in Cyrillic it's spelt as Турин.


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## Frozenstamper

We are traveling to Mercenasco not far from Romano Canavese and want to make contact with distant relatives who only speak Piemonte' - are there interpreters that one can hire? I can't believe they do not understand English, but I've been told they do not. Any ideas?


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## panjabigator

Do they not understand standard Italian?  I thought in this day and age everyone has to learn the standard.


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## Frozenstamper

I spoke with a shirttail relative (by marriage) who actually goes and visits the family that knows "our" family and he said they only speak Piemonte.  Our 17 yr old son has had 4 yrs of Spanish and special tudoring from our Ecudorian friends but, I don't know if that will be any help at all.  I wish there was a crash course we could take!  Thanks for your reply.


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## lsp

Frozenstamper said:
			
		

> I spoke with a shirttail relative (by marriage) who actually goes and visits the family that knows "our" family and he said they only speak Piemonte.  Our 17 yr old son has had 4 yrs of Spanish and special tu*t*oring from our Ecu*a*dorian friends but, I don't know if that will be any help at all.  I wish there was a crash course we could take!  Thanks for your reply.


"Shirttail relative"! I had to look that up in the dictionary! 

p.s. "I can't believe they do not understand English." That is understandable to me, but I do find it hard to imagine that they would be unable to communicate in Italian.


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## Cignetti

primo_cerchio said:


> Piedmontese is not taught in school.
> parents do no "teach" their children to use it.
> 
> There are people and also political parties that want to introduce teaching of dialects at school but i strongly disagree.
> 
> I think tha t dialects are a thing of the past to be revered and preserved as memories but that to live in a global world more people share the same language thew best it is.


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## Cignetti

Ciao Primo,

Just to give you a little history, my parents are from Strambino Fraz Crotte and I was born in America. Until I was five years old and sent to school to learn English I spoke only Piemontese. I still have relatives in Crotte and when we speak by telep-hone we always converse in Piemontese. I have found in my travels in the world that me still having the ability to speak Piemontese, it is a benifit since I have found people throughout the world that can communicate in Piemontese.


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