# Singular/plural - 1 out of 5 children is/are ... 1 in 5 children is/are ...



## jade40

Hello everyone,
I just saw on a poster today on the road with the statement '1 out of 5 children is sexually solicited online'. Although I'm pretty sure it is grammatically correct to use 'is' .....it doesn't look or sound right to me. It flows more naturally to say 'are'. I just wanted to verify that grammatically, its supposed to be with 'is' since it's referring to 1 child...??

Thanks,

Jade


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## tatis

I would say that the poster is correct. It is 'IS'.


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## jimreilly

One out of five is....
Twenty percent are....
Twenty out of a hundred are....


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## Fez

Yes you're right, "one child in 5 is" is grammatically correct. However, as you said, when speaking, it is such a common grammatical mistake to say for example "one in five children are", that it sounds strange for us to hear "one in five children is". Yet the correct sentence is "one in five children is" because take away the rest of the sentence and you have the basic sentence "one child is", which cannot be changed to "one child are". It's only because you put that plural in there to give more information that people get confused and use the plural "are".


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## l3376876

It's as clear as crystal that "is" is grammatically correct.


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## jade40

Thanks for all the quick responses!!


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## gaer

jade40 said:


> Hello everyone,
> I just saw on a poster today on the road with the statement '1 out of 5 children is sexually solicited online'. Although I'm pretty sure it is grammatically correct to use 'is' .....it doesn't look or sound right to me. It flows more naturally to say 'are'. I just wanted to verify that grammatically, its supposed to be with 'is' since it's referring to 1 child...??
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Jade


If it flows more naturally for you with "are", you have a lot of company. But "are" is wrong.

The problem is that the grammar contradicts logic. Obviously "one out of five" is not talking about one child bu many, 20 percent of all children.

"Everyone" (all, all people) is also plural, logically, but it is singular grammatically. Same problem. 

Gaer


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## gerardovox

I know I am a latecomer but I was just having the same problem.
I don't think it is so clear cut. 
#1 grammar is always catching up with current usage, and a quick googlefight reveals: 
"1 in 5 children are"   1.960 hits     "1 in 5 children is"  884 hits
"1 in 5 Americans are" 4540 hits    "1 in 5 Americans is" 2950 hits
 etc etc ad nauseum
I would argue on the basis of that (rather unscientific) survey that it is moving past the realm of "common mistake" right into "most native speakers agree" territory.  

2.MSword spelling&grammar tool seems to favor the "are" version. That is extremely unfortunate if you happen to prefer the "is" version.  Because even if it is right, the spell-checker is going to tell people it is wrong. 
So people really have to be sure of their grammar when they are proofreading a long document to defy the suggestion to change it.  Especially when logic and reason are also telling them to make the correction.  
I think only one in 5 people are going to ignore it.


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## Loob

I agree with you, gerardovox, except that I don't think the plural with eg 1 in 5 *was* a mistake ...

_One in five children are _
_One child in five is _


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## cuchuflete

In isolation, that is to say with a single group of five, "1 in 5 *is*..." seems logically correct to me.  I agree with Loob's open-mindedness, because most often "1 in 5" refers to a proportion of a larger group than five of anything.

_Of the millions of English speakers, only one in five are apt to use the term 'goose milk cheese' to describe a rare delicacy.  

_In that foolish example, there are many ones and many fives.  Thus the plural 'are' is appropriate.


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## panjandrum

Small changes in the wording make a big difference to how it feels - and I regret to say that how it feels is what governs whether I use a singular or plural verb.

One child in five ... sounds singular.
One in five children ... sounds plural.

One out of five children ... I'm not sure, now that I have to decide in an artificial context


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## Redshade

I am not usually a prescriptive uber-grammarian but 
I have to say that I would not only always say "is" in this instance
but also feel obliged to correct anyone who used the "are" form.
This looks like an AE/BE argument.


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## Loob

Redshade said:


> This looks like an AE/BE argument.


Why do you say that, Redshade?


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## Redshade

Because I would have received a thick ear at school for using the "are" version.
I think it was gerardovox's research which linked the "are" form to "Americans" on an American search engine that persuaded me.
<<Leading off-topic.>>


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Redshade said:


> I think it was gerardovox's research which linked the "are" form to "Americans" on an American search engine that persuaded me.


Except that you have also seen comments from speakers in the United Kingdom who report the same willingness to use "are". Perhaps you are forgetting that the number of native speakers of English in the United States is approximately five times the number of native speakers of English found in Great Britain. One will therefore find considerably more uses of just about any form on an American site.


<<Responding to an off-topic point, now deleted.>>


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## Ynez

"is" wins when writing the numbers.

*2.510* de *"one in five children is"*. 
*861* de *"one in five children are"*. 

*147* de *"one in five children is" site:uk*
*397* de *"one in five children are" site:uk*

It seems that, in relation, British use more "are".

*313* de *"one out of five children is"*. 
*247* de *"one out of five children are"*


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## Loob

panjandrum said:


> One child in five ... sounds singular.
> One in five children ... sounds plural.
> 
> One out of five children ... I'm not sure, now that I have to decide in an artificial context


I've been thinking about panj's post 11, especially as I now (belatedly!) see that gerardovox's points about "one in five" were added to a thread with the title "1 out of 5...."

I don't think I say "one out of five x"; I only say "one in five x". But I say "two, three {etc} out of five x" in preference to "two, three {etc} in five x".

I suspect I am very strange 

But it least it means panj's dilemma over "one out of five children" doesn't arise for me...

EDIT: Interesting googlestats, Ynez


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## Ynez

Loob said:


> I suspect I am very strange


 
I think you are not that strange  I was surprised to see more "one in five" than "one out of five", but now I understood the normal use, thanks to your comment.


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## panjandrum

Please try to keep to the thread topic.
If tempted to respond to something that is not on-topic, please do so either by private message, by referring to another thread on the topic, or by starting a new thread.
panjandrum
(Moderator)


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## Thomas Tompion

I think Cuchu makes a good point about one in five probably being plural, because if you only had five people, say, you'd say 'one of the five'.

However, I also accept that the further the verb is away from the one the greater the probable pull of the plural and its effect on the choice of verb form. That's a long-winded way of saying that I find I say 'one in five *is* dyslexic' but 'one in five of the magnificent Turkish janissaries *are* playing the cornemuse'.

I wouldn't raise an eyebrow, however, at 'one in five of the magnificent Turkish janissaries *is* playing the cornemuse'.

I would react in the same way - i.e. it could be is or are - to 'one out of five children', though it would, I suspect we are agreed, have to be 'one out of the five children *is*'.

I think it's a case where either will do perfectly well.


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## Defence

Loob said:


> I agree with you, gerardovox, except that I don't think the plural with eg 1 in 5 *was* a mistake ...
> 
> _One in five children are _
> _One child in five is _


Yeah, I'd say that's the best way to put it. Basically you need a noun in its plural form to use *are*.


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## Loob

Thanks, Defence

Welcome to English Only!


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## Redshade

Would not "one child in five is.." be a better construction?
I can't believe the debate has got this far.This is primary school stuff. "One child...is -  subject of sentence is singular = singular verb formation .


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## cuchuflete

Redshade said:


> Would not "one child in five is.." be a better construction?
> I can't believe the debate has got this far.This is primary school stuff. "One child...is -  subject of sentence is singular = singular verb formation .



Primary school stuff is simple.  Language may be less so.

We have measured the bellies of seventy-five children.  Based on the measurements, we find that one child in five is obese.  [_What about the other seventy?  ]_​


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## Forero

I agree with Loob, and I don't say "one out of five children".  I think it "sounds" singular though.  "One in five children" is plural because it means "one fifth of all children".


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## Thomas Tompion

We've been assuming that the was or is will be followed by an adjective, or adjectival phrase. However, often, surely, the predicate determines the choice for you.

Complements must agree with subjects in number and gender.

1. One in five children born is a Chinaman.

2. One in five children are little horrors.

I'm not very happy about 2. I think I'd change it to One in five children is a little horror.

Also when the is/are is followed by a noun or noun phrase I have little objection to the one-out-of-five form. Strange.


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## MiaBorg

Hello,

I cannot make up my mind whether this one takes singular or plural, can somebody help me please?

Is it "1 out of 5 teachers _is_" or is it "1 out of 5 teachers _are"_?

Thanks a lot!


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## Gordonedi

Hello, MiaBorg and welcome to the English Only forum !

Use "is" because it is the *one* that you are writing about, not the *five*.

"One out of five teachers" is singular.


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## MiaBorg

Thanks and thanks


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## Loob

It's not quite so clear-cut, Mia

See this previous thread:
_1 out of 5 children is/are ... 1 in 5 ... singular/plural_


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## banana pancakes

I don't know the grammar behind it but I would say that you can use both, I would even say that 'are' sounds more natural.


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## curlyboy20

I disagree, banana pancakes. Would *"one out of 5 teachers are usually wrong"* sound correct?

*"One out of 5 teachers is usually wrong"* sounds a lot better.


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## banana pancakes

It sounds fine to me. Like I said I'm just talking from a spoken English point of view and that can vary massively. But I wouldn't bat an eyelid at the use of 'are' in these cases.


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## curlyboy20

banana pancakes said:


> I'm just talking from a spoken English point of view and that can vary massively.


 
Good point, sorry I missed that  It's very common to hear people make common mistakes which have unfortunately, in some cases, become the norm, as it were.


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## banana pancakes

Check out Loob's post to a thread about it - it's actually quite interesting.

And thinking about it, if you are talking about 'one in five teachers' surely you are talking indirectly about more than one teacher? If you surveyed 100 teachers about being overworked and 20 said they were overworked, then although you reduce the figures down to a smaller fraction, the fact remains that you are still referring to the 20 teachers in your survey.

If you only surveyed five teachers then I would say definitely to use 'is'.

Complicated!


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## desert_fox

1 out of 5 IS..
2 out of 5 ARE...


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## curlyboy20

Complicated indeed. I did check that thread out and there's more to this than meets the eye.

If you're surveying 5 teachers and only one of them is complaining about being overworked, I assume you'd say:

One out of 5 teachers is complaining about being overworked.
One in 5 teachers is complaning about being overworked. 

*sigh*


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## johndot

Out of five teachers, one are wrong? Yeah, right.


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## Sallyb36

I agree with Johndot.
It should be one out of five teachers is...


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## Arrius

To my mind there is only one possiblilty when the subject is ONE: *is*.
 Let us say that _one out of/in five *are *etc_*.* is a very common mistake that is spreading and will eventually become totally accepted as is the way with English. A similar mistake is _neither X nor Y are coming_ to the party tonight, which should have *is*. _None _used to be exclusively singular, now _none are..._ is quite acceptable alongside _none is.._ (obsolescent), and _a number of people were killed _is now the only possibility, although fifty years ago, Fowler, the grammarian, insisted that _a number of_ should always be singular.


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## johndot

This cannot be right, surely? Did Fowler really say this, _in this way?_
_ _
In the sentence “A number of people xxx killed”, _people *were*_ killed, a number *was *not.


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## Arrius

Yes he did, but he also recommended usages like _his whereabouts* is* unknown with_ a singular noun, because you can only be in one place at one time, and _hamstringed_ (which I have never seen or heard) intead of_ hamstrung_, because it means_ cutting a muscle _not _stringing it_ like a bow, both of which preferences seem quite eccentric.


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## taked4700

Excuse me, but let me join in.

Firstly, let me make sure once again.

1. "One in five children are obese."

2. "One child in five is obese."

3. "One out of five children are obese."

4. "One child out of five is obese."

Are these sentences above idiomatic?
If so, the sentences below would be unidiomatic, wouldn't they?

5. "One in five children is obese."

6. "One child in five are obese."

7. "One out of five children is obese."

8. "One child out of five are obese."


Secondly, let me make an assumption.

This is the problem of what you see in the word 'one'.
If you see plurality, then you use 'are' and if singularity then 'is' is a natural choice.

What decides which you would see,  singularity or plurality is the degree of figurativeness, in other words, when 'one' is modified with other word like 'only one' or 'one child',  the degree of figurativeness is high, and it is natural to use 'is'.  When 'five' is modified with other word like 'five children', then, 'are' sounds natural.

What do you say?

Many thanks in advance.


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## Nunty

I'll put my comments in brown.



taked4700 said:


> Excuse me, but let me join in.
> 
> Firstly, let me make sure once again.
> 
> 1. "One in five children are obese." No. While some people may say this in informal speech, the correct form is "one in five children _*is*_ obese".
> 
> 2. "One child in five is obese." Correct.
> 
> 3. "One out of five children are obese." No. Same comment as for sentence (1).
> 
> 4. "One child out of five is obese." Correct.
> 
> Are these sentences above idiomatic?
> If so, the sentences below would be unidiomatic, wouldn't they?
> 
> 5. "One in five children is obese." Correct.
> 
> 6. "One child in five are obese." No: "one child... _*is*_".
> 
> 7. "One out of five children is obese." Correct.
> 
> 8. "One child out of five are obese." No. Same comment as for sentence (6).
> 
> 
> So, I'm afraid, your assumption does not follow.
> 
> Secondly, let me make an assumption.
> 
> This is the problem of what you see in the word 'one'.
> If you see plurality, then you use 'are' and if singularity then 'is' is a natural choice.
> 
> What decides which you would see,  singularity or plurality is the degree of figurativeness, in other words, when 'one' is modified with other word like 'only one' or 'one child',  the degree of figurativeness is high, and it is natural to use 'is'.  When 'five' is modified with other word like 'five children', then, 'are' sounds natural.
> 
> What do you say?
> 
> Many thanks in advance.


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## panjandrum

As you can see from the posts in this combined thread, opinions vary and no consensus can be found.
_________________________________________

I know it's off topic, but I can't let this pass without comment.





Arrius said:


> ...
> although fifty years ago, Fowler, the grammarian, insisted that _a number of_ should always be singular.


Are you sure?

New Fowler's Modern English Usage says that "a number of" takes a plural verb: "the number of" takes a singular verb.

I'm sure, though I can't find it just now, that my older Fowler says the same.


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## Arrius

Fowler must have departed this life many decades ago and I was talking about a book by him that I possessed long, long ago - much has changed since. English changes faster than most languages.


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## JulianStuart

One fifth of the children over the age of ten ___ obese.

Note, the subject of this sentence is "one" (or "one fifth").

Please fill in the blank!


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## curlyboy20

I guess I would choose "are" because "one fifth" would be more than 1 child and therefore, it's a plural subject. Any other opinions?


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## Loob

panjandrum said:


> New Fowler's Modern English Usage says that "a number of" takes a plural verb: "the number of" takes a singular verb.
> 
> I'm sure, though I can't find it just now, that my older Fowler says the same.


You're right, panj. Here it is in my second edition Fowler-revised-by-Gowers (1968) under the headword *number*


> When the word _number _is itself the subject, it is a safe rule to treat it as singular when it has a definite article and plural when it has an indefinite._ The number of people present was large,_ but _A large number of people were present._


Since Arrius used the phrase "50 years ago", I haven't checked the 1908 Fowler*, but I imagine it said something similar.

Sorry, I couldn't let it go either

Oh, and to bring this post back on topic, I agree that we won't reach a consensus on "one out of X [plural noun] is/are". Which, as I mentioned earlier in this combined thread, I don't say - though I do say "one in X [plural noun] are".

The safest option is "one [singular noun] in X is". 

*I have now. I couldn't find anything...


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## johndot

JulianStuart said:


> One fifth of the children over the age of ten ___ obese.
> 
> Note, the subject of this sentence is "one" (or "one fifth").
> 
> Please fill in the blank!



One-fifth of five children *is *one child. That child *is* obese.
One-fifth of ten children *is* two children. Those two *are* obese.
One-fifth of the population *is* obese.
One-fifth is a singular fraction.


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## JulianStuart

johndot, I have no problems with what you wrote.  But ultimately, you response is, well, unresponsive to _my blank_!


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## Thomas Tompion

Hi Julian.

I think most people would say _are_ after one fifth, in this case, because one fifth of the children over the age of ten is a large number of children.

I think John is saying that the answer must be _is _- I was surprised you didn't think he answered the question. 

I think_ is_ may be correct grammatically but would sound pedantic to many people in the context.

P.S. It occurs to me that one fifth of the population (or flour, or sugar) is singular, but one fifth of the children are plural - maybe it has something to do with the pull of the plural noun.


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## johndot

JulianStuart said:


> johndot, I have no problems with what you wrote.  But ultimately, you response is, well, unresponsive to _my blank_!



(I will not be drawn into asking in what way I was unresponsive to your blank.)
 
...But I did answer your question. By deduction, if one-fifth of a number, regardless of age, is one—then it is obese; if one-fifth of a number is more than one, then they are obese.


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## JulianStuart

johndot, I did read your response as meaning you were proposing "is" but you had sidestepped _my little trap_ and hadn't put it in the sentence because it doesn't _sound _right.  

I think TT has something here, perhaps relating to whether the denominator is singular (maybe uncountable) or not, that determines what sounds right.  

It is obvious in many instances of this discussion that "one" refers to more than one individual, and thus "one" becomes a plural of sorts.  Sometimes the construction is truly ambiguous, such as when we don't know if more than 5 children are under discussion, and other times it's not ambiguous from the context.   

Here, it seems to me, we have a version of "grammar" vs. "real-world" concept. It looks like a similar situation to the _team/police/government_ _is/are _discussions.  In many cases, the speaker or writer uses the word "team" to refer to the members (not the singular unit) but feels obliged, simply from a grammar viewpoint, to use a singular verb.  "Grammatically correct" is therefore only one way out while a "common sense" way that is clear and sounds right may be _grammatically incorrect_.

This dichotomy will always polarize these kinds of threads


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## Loob

Just to illustrate that different views are possible, here are my reactions:





taked4700 said:


> Excuse me, but let me join in.
> 
> Firstly, let me make sure once again.
> 
> 1. "One in five children are obese."
> 
> 2. "One child in five is obese."
> 
> 3. "One out of five children are obese."
> 
> 4. "One child out of five is obese."
> 
> Are these sentences above idiomatic?
> If so, the sentences below would be unidiomatic, wouldn't they?
> 
> 5. "One in five children is obese."
> 
> 6. "One child in five are obese."
> 
> 7. "One out of five children is obese."
> 
> 8. "One child out of five are obese.


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## curlyboy20

> 3. "One out of five children are obese."


 
I'd use "is" since it's referring to just 1 child (singular) being obese out of a group of 5.


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## panjandrum

> 3. "One out of five children are obese."
> 
> 
> 
> I'd use "is" since it's referring to just 1 child (singular) being obese out of a group of 5.
Click to expand...

No it isn't.
 It is referring to 20% of the population of children sampled.

I'm not denying that "is" may be correct, but the sentence does not at all suggest that there is only one obese child.


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## curlyboy20

Oh, I see your point


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## Forero

I am for notional agreement, as in Fowler's definite vs. indefinite article.  If, when I see "one out of five children", I see a child, one child all alone, out of five, even if I mean out of each five, that child is a singular entity.  But if I see "one out of five children" as a fifth of all/the children, i.e. as a number of children, I see them as plural.

When "one out of five children" is the subject of a verb, I will choose a singular verb if I see one child or a plural verb if I see a number of children.

I have found that I can take the same phrase either way, though switching my point of view on a particular sentence is not always easy.  So I do not believe that there has to be only one correct answer to the question of whether "one out of five children" or any similar phrase takes a singular or a plural verb.

I feel the need to mention also that I do not agree with the idea that a complement has to agree in any way with a subject. For example, there is no grammatical problem in the sentence "I am not your parents." In fact, it is because subject and complement do not have to match that sentences with linking verbs are so useful.  Otherwise they would all be like "This is this."


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## Loob

Nicely put, Forero


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## moonglow

Is it "One in 10 people is or are affected"?

One in 10 is 10 percent, so is the correct verb "are"?

Thanks.


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## ewie

In writing, and when my brain is fully switched on:
_One [in 10 people] is affected
[One in] 10 people are affected



_In speech ... well, anything could happen


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## Loob

I looked for previous threads, moonglow, and found these two - which have different answers
one in ten feel that ... or one in ten feels that ...
One in ten has / say

Personally, I would see "one in ten" as plural: _One in ten people are affected.

[cross-posted with ewie]
_


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## moonglow

Thanks, loob!


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## ewie

On the off-chance that my first post sounded too categorical rolleyes, I think that if the sentence was something like:


> Out of a total population of 47,600,000 we found that one in ten ____ afflicted with verbal diarrhoea.


I'd probably choose _were_ rather than _was_ even in writing ~ it's a 'force of numbers' kind of thing.
Erm ...
... yes.
Probably.


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## Egmont

"One in ten" refers to a percentage of a large population here, not to one specific person. That's why the plural "were" is correct. 

If we had a group of ten people, and wrote something like "one of those ten people was in a white shirt, the others wore blue" the singular would be correct because it uses "one" as a count, not part of an expression that means the fraction 1/10.


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## moonglow

Big debate on this usage, but your explanation makes the most sense. I've been told that "one" is as singular as it gets. Your explanation is the most logical.


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## Herefordian

Any strict rule on such matters has been forgotten years ago.  As Ewie says, "In speech ... well, anything could happen", but I think that applies to writing as well these days.


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## Chasint

Egmont said:


> "One in ten" refers to a percentage of a large population here, not to one specific person. That's why the plural "were" is correct.
> 
> If we had a group of ten people, and wrote something like "one of those ten people was in a white shirt, the others wore blue" the singular would be correct because it uses "one" as a count, not part of an expression that means the fraction 1/10.


Nope. One in ten isn't a percentage. A percentage is a percentage.

One in ten means - one person out of every ten people.  This is singular.
One percent means - one tenth of the people tested.  This is usually plural because sample populations are typically more than ten.

You could say one-tenth of people are affected.
You cannot say One person in ten are affected.

*My answer*

One in 10 people is affected.  (One person in ten is affected)
One tenth of people are affected.


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## moonglow

So, then, obviously:

Ten percent of people *are* affected.
One-tenth of 1 percent of people *are* affected.


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## Loob

Biffo said:


> ...
> You cannot say One person in ten are affected.
> ..


For me it's:
_One person in ten is affected.
One in ten people are affected._

(I feel sure I've written this in a previous thread)

<<You had:  thanks for finding the link which is no longer  needed as the threads are now merged - answers from post #61 are from the more recent question on this subject>>


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