# cat-in-cream smile



## sophie3210

Hello everyone, 

I wondered if I couls translate "*cat-in-cream smile*" by "*sourire satisfait*" or if it is a bit weak.

Context : a woman had a "quickie" with a cute stranger, and her sister finds out when the woman comes back with a cat-in-cream smile.

What do you think ?
Thanks


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## velisarius

"Sourire de satisfaction profonde." ?


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## sophie3210

Merci Velisarius


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## behavebabyyeah

le sourire de quelqu'un qui baigne dans son jus ?
un sourire benoît ? (Mais Larousse dit que c'est un sourire "d'une douceur hypocrite", je ne savais pas. Pour moi 'benoît' c'est satisfait...)


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## sophie3210

Merci behaveB ! Je ne connaissais pas "qui baigne dans son jus" ! C'est étrange !


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## behavebabyyeah

Oui c'est drôle quand on y pense, moi je l'utilise couramment


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## Nicomon

_Le sourire/le regard (de contentement) d'un chat qui a attrapé une souris? 

_Et plutôt que_ benoît _(qui ne m'est pas familier), je verrais_... béat : 






Qui affiche une expression de contentement un peu niaise. Air, sourire béat.

Click to expand...


_Je ne connaissais pas non plus _« qui baigne dans son jus », _et je dois avouer que je n'aime pas trop 
(je l'aurais compris autrement, hors contexte).


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## sophie3210

Merci Nicomon ! L'idée est là


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## Uncle Bob

Maybe you're allowed to make one up since I think the author did: as far as I know "cat-in-cream" isn't an idiom (in BE anyway), that's "a cat who's had the cream".


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## Fred_C

Il s’agit apparemment d’une forme adjectivale (inventée) de l’idiotisme «a cat who’s had the cream». (puisqu’il s’agit de décrire le mot sourire).
Ce n’est donc pas exactement un idiotisme, mais presque...


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## sophie3210

Yes, you're perfectly right Uncle Bob !


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## sophie3210

And Fred too. I think I'll make up something based on the meaning.


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## Cath.S.

_Un sourire repu_.


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## sophie3210

Oh, j'aime bien "repu", ça fait gourmande, hé hé


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## Cath.S.

Tout à l'heure, le mot _gourmand_ me revenait sans cesse à l'esprit, mais bien sûr _un sourire gourmand_ serait plus à sa place sur le visage d'une femme qui n'a pas encore... mangé. 
_Un sourire de gourmandise satisfaite_ ?


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## sophie3210

Cath !


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## Uncle Bob

You must, of course, find something which distinguishes the cat's smile after the cream from the enigmatic smile of the Cheshire cat. Perhaps FredC can help there.


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## sophie3210

Yes you're right ... The Cheshire cat's smile is rather worrying !


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## Nicomon

Cath.S. said:


> _Un sourire de gourmandise satisfaite_ ?


  J'aime ça. 

@ Sophie : j'ai écrit « du chat qui a attrapé la souris », mais en fait la suggestion était la parenthèse : « de contentement ». 
Donc :  _Un sourire de contentement

_


> Le dictionnaire de l'Amour. *Contentement*. Mot qui dépeint grassement la *satisfaction d'un chat qui attrape une souris*.


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## Perco

Just wondering if '... sourire de celle qui a gagné et beurre et argent du beurre' would ever do. Despite being awfully long ..


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## sophie3210

@Nicomon ! Thanks, of course i should have guessed what you meant  "sourire de contentement" is very good indeed !
@Perco: thanks too. It is a bit long indeed, but the meaning is close to the VO


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## guillaumedemanzac

I agree that "cat-in-cream" is not an English phrase : *the cat-who-got/had-the-cream* means "with a huge satisfied smile all over your face" - very evocative and nothing to do with mice.        *sourire de gourmandise contente et satisfaite* 
guillaume


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## Nicomon

guillaumedemanzac said:


> [...] very evocative and nothing to do with mice.


 Have you read the citation that I posted in #19?


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## guillaumedemanzac

Yes, I take your point but that is a definition of "contentment" - this is a translation of "cat-in-cream look on her face" not "cat-who-got-the-mouse look on her face" - two quite different phrases,
guillaume


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## pointvirgule

guillaumedemanzac said:


> Yes, I take your point but that is a  definition of "contentment" - this is a translation of "cat-in-cream  look on her face" not "cat-who-got-the-mouse look on her face" - two  quite different phrases,


Seems to me the cat who caught the mouse would have the same look of  contentment on his face as the one in the cream. Both phrases express  the same idea. Or is there in your mind a particular "mouse" look that  looks different from the "cream" look?


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## Cath.S.

pointvirgule said:


> Seems to me the cat who caught the mouse would have the same look of  contentment on his face as the one in the cream. Both phrases express  the same idea. Or is there in your mind a particular "mouse" look that  looks different from the "cream" look?


My very thoughts. Yet the cat might have a crueller expression on its face in the mouse situation (kidding)


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## titiminet5122

Un sourire onctueux/ benêt.


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## sophie3210

pointvirgule said:


> Seems to me the cat who caught the mouse would have the same look of  contentment on his face as the one in the cream. Both phrases express  the same idea. Or is there in your mind a particular "mouse" look that  looks different from the "cream" look?



Well, to my French ears, a cat that would catch a mouse would be very proud and would bring it to its masters, whereas a cat who got the cream would rather think "ha ha, I got the cream, and you couldn't do anything to prevent me from stealing it, yum yum !"

Am I right ?


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## orlando09

Cath.S. said:


> My very thoughts. Yet the cat might have a crueller expression on its face in the mouse situation (kidding)


I think maybe that's what guillaume meant - a cat that has got the cream would be pleased and satisfied, but in a less cruel, more innocent, way that one that has just killed and eaten a mouse. 

I find this title phrase a bit odd, and definitely looks like the writer invented it - I gues he or she just found it shorter to write than a cat-who's-got-the-cream look. But cat "in" cream suggests it's swimming (or paddling) about in it! But maybe this is meant to suggest the cat is feeling really extremely pleased and self-indulgent with itself!


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## orlando09

sophie3210 said:


> Well, to my French ears, a cat that would catch a mouse would be very proud and would bring it to its masters, whereas a cat who got the cream would rather think "ha ha, I got the cream, and you couldn't do anything to prevent me from stealing it, yum yum !"
> 
> Am I right ?


Maybe, but I'm not sure the expression necessarily means it stole it.


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## LivingTree

I've been reading this thread for a while, and I have to agree with orlando09: there's nothing idiomatic about the expression "cat-in-cream smile" and it sounds completely forced to me. I'd say someone does just seem to have come up with that themself, and it's just a tossed off, throw-away phrase we shouldn't spend too terribly much time analyzing.  It was the smile of someone who had just won the prize / was very pleased with herself, I'd say.

The vaguely related expression that came to my mind was "cat that just ate the canary", which has been discussed at this site and is along the line of getting caught with your hand in the cookie jar (since the cat will generally have feathers sticking out of its mouth). Not the same as here.

What it really sounds like to me is this: 
... a very wide and, to the outside observer, stupid looking grin, usually showing smugness, self-satisfaction, or inner humor.


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## guillaumedemanzac

Yes but your grin in the urban dictionary is vulgar, urban and Amarican. I don't trust on-line dictionaries who make such a basic error as " the politician gave a ****-eating grin as he called for and end to ..."
A cat-that-ate-the-canary smile is guilty and hand-in-the-cookie-jar.
A cat-that-ate-the-mouse smile is Lady Macbeth, bloody hands, guilty and murderous.
A cat-that-ate-the-cream smile is smooth, creamy, contented, fully satisfied with a warm soft creamy feeling inside - just as the sister felt I imagine, if you permit some mild sexual inuendo. 
guillaume


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## Nicomon

guillaumedemanzac said:


> A cat-that-ate-the-cream smile is smooth, creamy, *contented, fully satisfied *with a warm soft creamy feeling inside - just as the sister felt I imagine, if you permit some mild sexual inuendo.


 Hence my suggesting « _sourire de contentement_ », and giving the definition found in « dictionnaire de l'amour ». I can't help it if they define it as "cat who caught the mouse" rather than "cat who ate the cream".  

Then again, I also said that I like Cath's suggestion of « _gourmandise satisfaite_ ». 

Now how would you interpret this one (I wrote « attrapé », not « mangé/avalé ») : 





> He has a smile on his face as big as the *cat that caught the mouse* and guess why. He is going for another ride down the slide.


 Still Lady Macbeth, bloody hands, guilty and murderous? I don't think so.


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## LivingTree

(@ guillaumedemanzac) Actually, I would have said more likely vulgar, rural and USAmerican. Both of us would be wrong, however. Wiki cites it to the OED:
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/shit-eating_grin
and offers two French equivalents.

My point was mainly that the image created by the expression used is one of satisfaction and self-satisfaction, and that the expression used has no "meaning" because the person who used it just made it up.


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## NemoNobody

Perco said:


> Just wondering if '... sourire de celle qui a gagné et beurre et argent du beurre' would ever do.


Probably not, the underlying idea of "avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre" is to try to get a gain/satisfaction at no expense (usually by some trick): "getting the butter without spending the butter money".

Personally, I would vote for Nicomon's "sourire béat" or for "sourire épanoui", which IMHO carries more specifically the idea of satisfaction.


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## sophie3210

Oh, I like "béat"


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## Nicomon

sophie3210 said:


> Oh, I like "béat"


 I'm happy that you do. You may have missed it earlier, as it was part of a longer post (#7).


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## sophie3210

Oups, désolée Nicomon  rendons à César ... Merci à toi en tout cas !


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## guillaumedemanzac

"avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre"   -  is that similar to "to have your cake and eat it"     
@Nicomon The boy-with-the-cat-that-caught-the-mouse smile sounds very happy, contented and not at all guilty. That is why I wouldn't use that phrase in that situation and I would tell someone using it that it was the wrong impression to give - it should be, in his case, the cat-that-ate-the-cream.
However, I agree with you that with an idiom like this different people interpret the phrase in different ways!!!  
guillaume


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## Uncle Bob

One could, of course, go for the simplest "un sourire chat-dans-crème", but there's no fun in doing that !


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## Nitroceline

Quant à moi, je crois que j'aurais le sourire fendu jusqu'aux oreilles...


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## sophie3210

@ Guillaume, seems indeed that "avoir le beurre et l'argent du beurre" translates by "you can't have your cake and eat it".
@ Uncle Bob, yes you're right, no fun in doing that 
@ Nitroceline : merci aussi, proposition très valable !


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## lulufromfrance

La discussion date, mais je viens de la parcourir à la recherche d'un équivalent pour cat-in-cream. Dans mon contexte, il est suivi de thing,

 "smirky, _cat-in-cream _thing that happens to women in front of mirrors". 

Je pense opter pour "le reflet assouvi, béat apparaissant aux femmes dans leurs miroirs ". (pour préciser, il s'agit des femmes venant de découvrir la nouvelle mode lancée par Dior après-guerre).


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## Nicomon

Bonjour lulufromfrance,

J'imagine plus « satisfait » que « assouvi ». 

À vrai dire, je n'ai pas d'idée géniale, mais je mets un plus long bout de ce que je crois être le *contexte,*  au cas où d'autres seraient plus inspirés : 





> A decade on, Vogue was able to eulogize the New Look as one of the greatest watershed moments in twentieth-century fashion. Happy days, indeed, were here again. The world had been built anew. “And while the new cars and nylons and automatic washing machines filled it with patches of green pastures, *the real Elysian lift*—*the smirky, cat-in-cream thing that happens to women in front of mirrors*—came out of Dior and Paris.


 Également lu sur *cette page *: 





> But most were soon seduced by         Dior’s draped delights. “It took one swish of the hips and America was         won,” observed the novelist Colette. The enterprising couturier wasted         no time in capitalizing on what British _         Vogue_ pinpointed         as “*the real Elysian lift—the smirky, cat-in-cream thing that happens to women in front of mirrors.*”


   "thing" est à rapprocher du "real Elysian lift" qui précède.


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## lulufromfrance

Merci Nicomon.
J'ai du mal à comprendre la référence de "thing" à "elysian lift". Je vois plus facilement le lien avec la suite, qui vient imager "the Elysian lift" ?
D'ailleurs, j'ai traduit Elysian lift par "ascenseur vers le paradis" mais je suis pas sûre du tout... Aurais-tu une idée ?


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## Nicomon

Il se peut que je ne sois pas bien réveillée.   Comme l'expression est entre deux tirets, je l'ai lue comme une incise / définition de "Elysian lift". 

Si on enlève "smirky, cat in cream", on obtient:  _the real Elysian lift - the thing that happens to women in front of their mirrors - came out..._
Attendons d'autres avis. 

Pour _Elysian lift _il vaudrait peut-être mieux ouvrir un autre fil.


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## lulufromfrance

Oui, présenté ainsi, ça fait sens. 
Je vais créer un fil pour Elysian lift, car l'ascenseur vers le paradis me plaît moyennement.
Merci, en tout cas !


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## archijacq

la délectation (des femmes à minauder devant leurs miroirs) ?


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## lulufromfrance

J'ai mis "la béatitude des femmes devant leurs miroirs" ?
Délectation convient bien aussi...


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Or "the cat who's swallowed the canary": "un sourire suffisant ("smug")" or even "de contentement [mal caché]" (perhaps a bit long)?


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