# All Slavic languages: case after numbers from 1 to 5



## jazyk

Is Russian the only Slavic language that uses the genitive singular after numbers 2 to 4? I suspect that the other Eastern Slavic languages, Ukrainian and Belorussian, do the same, but I don't know for sure.

Thank you very much.


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## slavic_one

Same in BCS.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Slovenian uses the genitive *plural* for numbers five and up:

Masc.:

1 avtomobil (nominative singular)
2 avtomobil*a *(nominative dual)
3 avtomobil*i *(nominative plural)
4 avtomobil*i *(nominative plural)
5 avtomobil*ov *(genitive plural)
6 avtomobil*ov *(genitive plural)
...

Fem.:

1 miz*a*
2 miz*i*
3 miz*e*
4 miz*e*
5 miz
6 miz
...

Neut.:

1 okn*o*
2 okn*i*
3 okn*a*
4 okn*a*
5 oken
6 oken
...


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## Azori

Slovak uses the nominative plural for numbers 2, 3 and 4 and the genitive plural for numbers 5 and up:

1 auto (nominative singular)
2 autá (nominative plural)
3 autá (nominative plural)
4 autá (nominative plural)
5 áut (genitive plural)
6 áut (genitive plural)


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## robin74

Polish uses nominative plural with numbers 2-4 (dwa/ trzy / cztery okna), unless it's a noun denoting a human male, when genitive plural can also be used ("dwóch mężczyzn" - genitive, or "dwaj mężczyźni" - nominative).


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## NotNow

robin74 said:


> Polish uses nominative plural with numbers 2-4 (dwa/ trzy / cztery okna), unless it's a noun denoting a human male, when genitive plural can also be used ("dwóch mężczyzn" - genitive, or "dwaj mężczyźni" - nominative).


 
And Polish uses the genitive plural for numbers 5 and up.


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## Duya

Actually, _all_ Slavic languages use the same system of genitive singular for (numbers ending in) 2-4 and genitive plural for 5+. Even Bulgarian and Macedonian, which have lost all case endings, maintain some remnants of  dual in this position (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_grammar#Remnant_of_the_dual). In addition, Slovene has preserved the proper dual, so it is used in declension of exactly 2 items.For more detailed coverage, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number)#The_dual_in_the_Slavic_languages.


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## jazyk

> Actually, _all_ Slavic languages use the same system of genitive singular for (numbers ending in) 2-4


Nope, Czech, Polish and Slovak don't.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Neither does Slovenian. (The genitive singular, that is. Only the genitive plural is used for 5 and above.)


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## xpictianoc

I'm always wondering how to say in BCS "Please two bureks" ? 
_Molim dva burka ili molim dva burki? _
and the same situation "three, four bureks"


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## werrr

jazyk said:


> Nope, Czech, Polish and Slovak don't.


I can second this.


Perhaps we should focus on more basic distinction. There are two basic kinds of cooperation between numeral and noun – either the noun expands the numeral or vice versa. Of course, in reality we have also a lot of corrupted or mixed systems.

The first kind of cooperation is typically by means of genitive, mostly plural genitive; the latter cooperation is typically by means of grammatical agreement. The first cooperation is invariant with respect to declension, the latter is variable with respect to declension (I wonder nobody mentioned the declension so far).


In Czech we use both the basic systems and one mixed system:


The simple grammatical agreement (the small corruption in regards of dual is formally solved by declaring the dual forms a special plural pattern) is used for all numerals with adjectival or pronominal character, that is for basic numerals 1-4, all ordinal numerals, some indefinite numerals like “žádný” etc.
The simple plural genitive construction is used for all numerals with the character of substantives.
And finally, we use a mixed system which consists of plural genitive construction in nominative and accusative and of grammatical agreement in all the other cases (the declension of numerals is very simple, it always uses the ending “-i”). This system is used for basic numerals 5+.
Sometimes we can use more systems simultaneously, e.g. the numeral “sto” could be considered a substantive (→ 2nd system) or a mere numeral (→ 3rd system).


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## Duya

xpictianoc said:


> I'm always wondering how to say in BCS "Please two bureks" ?
> _Molim dva burka ili molim dva burki? _



Dva (tri, četiri) burEka.

(BCS doesn't have volatile "e" but "a" in place of old Slavic semivowel, and the word is of Turkish origin anyway.)


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## xpictianoc

Duya said:


> Dva (tri, etiri) burEka.
> 
> (BCS doesn't have volatile "e" but "a" in place of old Slavic semivowel, and the word is of Turkish origin anyway.)



oh hvala lepo, sad ću pamtiti  
Thank you, now I'll remember 

I have always problem with polonization of serbian


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## Duya

xpictianoc said:


> I have always problem with polonization of serbian



For example, we decline "Lolek i Bolek" as "Lol*e*ka i Bol*e*ka", because we don't feel that the "e" should be lost in declension; the BCS reflex of the common Slavic suffix *-ъk is -ak, as witnessed in words such as _mačak_-gen. _mačka_ or _petak_-gen. _petka_. But that's maybe a topic for another thread, and I'll stop here.


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## xpictianoc

ok I got it, thanks. It saves me a lot of thinking


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## kknd

Here it is stated in English, quite nice I must admit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number)#The_dual_in_the_Slavic_languages


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## phosphore

Duya said:


> Actually, _all_ Slavic languages use the same system of genitive singular for (numbers ending in) 2-4 and genitive plural for 5+. Even Bulgarian and Macedonian, which have lost all case endings, maintain some remnants of dual in this position (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_grammar#Remnant_of_the_dual). In addition, Slovene has preserved the proper dual, so it is used in declension of exactly 2 items.For more detailed coverage, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number)#The_dual_in_the_Slavic_languages.


 
Serbian actually uses paucal, which is not always homophonous with genitive singular, as far as I know.


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## Duya

phosphore said:


> Serbian actually uses paucal, which is not always homophonous with genitive singular, as far as I know.



Then, you have to give a counterexample, I'm afraid. 

As far as I know, there's no such thing as paucal in Serbian, except on semantic level; gramatically, it is expressed through genitive singular.


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## phosphore

I've read somewhere that there are some differences in accent between genitive singular and nominative paucal forms of some words, but I don't have those examples at hand at the moment.

However, paucal is definitely expressed gramatically through case and number marking: we say _(od)_ _mog druga_ but _moja dva druga_.


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## Filip3112

it's like this in croatian:

1 auto (nominative sg.)
2 auta (genitive pl.)
3 auta (g. pl.)
4 auta (g. pl.)
5 auta (g. pl.)
and so on, and so on... so, nominative sg. is only when there's one subject, and when there are 2 or more, it's genitive pl.


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## Duya

Filip3112 said:


> it's like this in croatian:
> 
> 1 auto (nominative sg.)
> 2 auta (genitive pl.)
> 3 auta (g. pl.)
> 4 auta (g. pl.)
> 5 auta (g. pl.)
> and so on, and so on... so, nominative sg. is only when there's one subject, and when there are 2 or more, it's genitive pl.



No it's not. 2, 3, 4 auta is genitive singular. Just decline word _žena_ and it will become obvious.


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## Awwal12

jazyk said:


> Is Russian the only Slavic language that uses the genitive singular after numbers 2 to 4? I suspect that the other Eastern Slavic languages, Ukrainian and Belorussian, do the same, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> Thank you very much.


The Russian uses genitive singular FOR numbers from 2 to 4, and AFTER them (up to 20) - genitive plural. And it should be noted that genitive singular is used only in nomenative case of the noun being numbered; during declension of the noun (i.e. when it is not in nomenative), the numeral is in the same number and case as the noun.

Example.
Nominative: один танкист (1 tankman) - четыре танкист_а_ (4 tankmen) - пять танкист_ов_ (5 tankmen)
But genitive: одного танкист_а_ - четырех танкист_ов_ - пяти танкист_ов_
Or dative: одному танкист_у_ - четырем танкист_ам_ - пяти танкист_ам_

And there is also a special, facultative sort of numerals for male persons, which demands ONLY genitive plural, when the noun is in nomenative plural.

An alternative example.
Nomenative: один танкист - четверо танкист_ов _(4 tankmen) - пятеро танкист_ов_ (5 tankmen).
The both variants ("четыре танкиста" and "четверо танкистов") are absolutely correct. But if at least one tank crew member is a woman (well, let's suppose), only the first variant will be OK.


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## WannaBeMe

phosphore said:


> I've read somewhere that there are some differences in accent between genitive singular and nominative paucal forms of some words, but I don't have those examples at hand at the moment.
> 
> However, paucal is definitely expressed gramatically through case and number marking: we say _(od)_ _mog druga_ but _moja dva druga_.



Moreover I think we have the rests of dual also by verbs.
I woudnt say ever "Moja dva druga su skakali" but "Moja dva druga su skakal*a*". Does this seems to you natural or not?

Also how would we declinate it if we dont have dual (I dont understand how we can declinate genitiv singular 

jedan duh
jednoga duha
jednomu duhu
jednoga duha
s jednim duhom
o jednom duhu

dva, tri, četiri duha
dvaju, triju, četiriju duhova
dvama, trima, četirima dusima
dva, tri, četiri duha
sa dvama, trima, četirima dusima
o dvama, trima, četirima dusima

pet(ero) duhova
peteriju duhova
peteroma dusima
petero duhova
s peteroma dusima
o peteroma dusima

Naravno narod nikad neće kazati "Pričam priču o trima dusima" nego "Pričam priču o tri duha" i bukvalno upotrebljavaju dual samo u nominativu i akuzativu. Malo je žalosno, ali ipak, dok sve možemo da izdekliniramo ovako lijepo znači da ipak nije sve od duala izgubljeno


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## Anatoli

jazyk said:


> Is Russian the only Slavic language that uses the genitive singular after numbers 2 to 4? I suspect that the other Eastern Slavic languages, *Ukrainian *and *Belarusian*, do the same, but I don't know for sure.
> 
> Thank you very much.


Wrong assumption, sorry.

three days
*Russian:* три дня
but*
Belarusian:* тры дні
*Ukrainian: *три дні 
compare to*
Polish: *trzy dni
*Czech: *tři dny


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## Tjahzi

Hello

I have, for some time, been trying to put together a summary of *how nouns governed by the numerals 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are inflected in all Slavic languages *(except Bulgarian and Macedonian). As such, I would be very happy if you could please help me by translating the below sentences in your respective Slavic language and please state the number and the case of the noun in question. In order to get as much material as possible, please make three sets, one with a word of each gender (preferably with regular conjugations). 

If the forms governed by the numerals 2, 3 and 4 are identical, skip the last two.

If the forms governed by the numerals 5-19 are NOT identical, please add that as a comment.

See below.
*

English:*

There is one [any masculine noun] on the table. --- Nominative singular.
There are two [any masculine noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.
There are five [any masculine noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.

There is one [any feminine noun] on the table. --- Nominative singular.
There are two [any feminine noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.
There are five [any feminine noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.

There is one [any neuter noun] on the table. --- Nominative singular.
 There are two [any neuter noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.
 There are five [any neuter noun] on the table. --- Nominative plural.
*

Russian:* 

На столе есть апельсин. --- Nominative singular.
На столе есть два апельсина. --- Genitive singular.
На столе есть пять апельсинов. --- Genitive plural.

На столе есть груша. --- Nominative singular.
На столе есть две груши. --- Genitive singular.
На столе есть пять груш. --- Genitive plural.

На столе есть яблоко. --- Nominative singular.
На столе есть два яблока. --- Genitive singular.
На столе есть пять яблок. --- Genitive plural.


As such, it appears that for Russian, the rule goes as following:

If the Numeral is 1, or a combined numeral ending in 1 (but not 11) such as 21, 31, 41 etc, the noun takes nominative singular. 

If the numeral is 2, 3 or 4, or a combined numeral ending in 2, 3 or 4 (but not 12-14) such as 23, 34, 42 etc, the noun takes genitive singular.

If the numeral is 5-19 or a combined numeral ending in 5-9 such as 34, 56,  78 etc, the noun takes genitive plural. 

First off, are there any exceptions to these rules? Please state if so. 
(Also, if anything in my above presentation, or my example sentences, is incorrect, please let me know.)

Also, if you have any official sources (in any language) that deal with this issue, please tell/link if possible. 


Thank you all in advance!


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## Duya

Tjahzi said:


> I have, for some time, been trying to put together a summary of *how nouns governed by the numerals 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 are inflected in all Slavic languages *(except Bulgarian and Macedonian)



You wrongly assumed that they're not inflected in Bulgarian and Macedonian :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulgarian_grammar#Remnant_of_the_dual

There is a reasonably complete table at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_(grammatical_number)#The_dual_in_the_Slavic_languages

(I also think that we already have a thread with complete declension around, though I'm not sure, and I don't have time to search.)


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## ilocas2

Czech

masculine - pomeranč - orange
Na stole je pomeranč
Na stole jsou dva pomeranče
Na stole je pět pomerančů

feminine - hruška - pear
Na stole je hruška
Na stole jsou dvě hrušky
Na stole je pět hrušek

neuter - jablko - apple
Na stole je jablko
Na stole jsou dvě jablka
Na stole je pět jablek

1 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
2, 3, 4 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
5 - infinity - genitive plural, the verb is in singular

There is also possibility to be for numerals ending on 1 (from 21) - nominative singular, and for numerals ending on 2, 3, 4 (from 22) - nominative plural, it's considered grammatically correct, but it's not used in speech anymore and would sound awkward.

Link: http://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/České_číslovky


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## Tjahzi

Thank you.

However, this is not an issue of how _numerals themselves _are inflected, but rather about the _nouns governed by numerals_, and then mainly about what case they take, which I'm afraid rules out Bulgarian and Macedonian (although the Bulgarian numeric plural being a remnant of an archaic dual form is extremely interesting on it's own!).

I did some searching but didn't find any thread, and since I need to cover all Slavic languages, I thought it would be better to create one myself.


Thanks, ilocas2! Exactly what I was after.


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## Duya

Tjahzi said:


> However, this is not an issue of how _numerals themselves _are inflected, but rather about the _nouns governed by numerals_, and then mainly about what case they take, which I'm afraid rules out Bulgarian and Macedonian (although the Bulgarian numeric plural being a remnant of an archaic dual form is extremely interesting on it's own!).



See the *third* table in the second Wikipedia link, above -- the one with wolves.


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## TriglavNationalPark

Slovenian has a grammatical dual in addition to the singular and the plural:

NEUTER (*jabolko* = apple)

1:* Na mizi je (eno) jabolko.* (Nominative singular)

2:* Na mizi sta (dve) jabolki.* (Nominative dual )

3:* Na mizi so tri jabolka.* (Nominative plural)

4:* Na mizi so štiri jabolka.* (Nominative plural)

5:* Na mizi je pet jabolk.* (Genitive plural, but "biti" is singular)


MASCULINE (*paradižnik* = tomato)

1:* Na mizi je (en) paradižnik.* (Nominative singular)

2:* Na mizi sta (dva) paradižnika.* (Nominative dual )

3:* Na mizi so trije paradižniki.* (Nominative plural)

4:* Na mizi so štiri paradižniki.* (Nominative plural)

5:* Na mizi je pet paradižnikov.* (Genitive plural, but "biti" is singular)


FEMININE (*hruška* = pear)

1:* Na mizi je (ena) hruška.* (Nominative singular)

2:* Na mizi sta (dve) hruški.* (Nominative dual )

3:* Na mizi so tri hruške.* (Nominative plural)

4:* Na mizi so štiri hruške.* (Nominative plural)

5:* Na mizi je pet hrušk.* (Genitive plural, but "biti" is singular)


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## Azori

Slovak

masculine (*pomaranč* = orange)

*Na stole je (jeden) pomaranč.*
*Na stole sú dva pomaranče.*
*Na stole je päť pomarančov.*

feminine (*hruška* = pear)

*Na stole je (jedna) hruška.*
*Na stole sú dve hrušky.*
*Na stole je päť hrušiek.*

neuter (*jablko* = apple)

*Na stole je (jedno) jablko.*
*Na stole sú dve jablká.*
*Na stole je päť jabĺk.*

1 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
2, 3, 4 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
5 - infinity - genitive plural, the verb is in singular


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## VelikiMag

Could someone tell me in which case are feminine nouns after numbers 2, 3 and 4 in Serbian language?


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## Wikislav

In BCS including also _Kaykavian_ (despite its partial similarity to Slovene), dual is now copletely lost, ald replaced by genitive at 2, 3 and 4. The same is partly also in the dying half-Chakavians of Dalmatian mainland (Zadar-Split). However, in the true western Chakavians of Istra peninsula, Vinodol coast and Kvarner archipelago at northeastern Adriatic, a _specific paucal_ (not genitive) at 2, 3 and 4 is more or less yet preserved by native speakers there. Some mainland Chakavians in Istria and Vinodol say (bolded stress): 1 žen*à*, ruk*à* & nog*à* (= woman, hand & leg); 2-3-4 žen*î*, ruk*î *& nog*î*; 5-6-7... ž*ê*n, r*û*k & n*ô*g ...etc. This distinct paucal is partly conserved there in nominative only, lacking in other cases.

Other Chakavian _islanders_ of Kvarner (Krk, Rab etc.) have well conserved the complete cases of an exotic_ archaic paucal_ divergent from recent Slavs, including: 
_a) masculinum:_ 1-5-6... źm*ý*n (= drake/s); Nominative+Vocative 2-3-4 źmin*õj*, Genitive+Accusative 2-3-4 źmin*ôv*, Dative+Locative 2-3-4 źmin*ôn, *Instrumental 2-3-4 źmin*òm*i. 
_b) femininum:_ 1 źab*ý*na (= frog); Nom+Voc. 2-3-4 źab*ý*naj, Gen+Accu. 2-3-4 źab*ý*nah, Dat+Loc. 2-3-4 źab*ý*nan, Inst. 2-3-4 źabin*à*mi; and 5-6-7... źab*ý*n.  
_c) neutrum:_ 1 śarc*è* (= heart); Nom.+Voc. 2-3-4 śarc*êj*, Gen+Accu. 2-3-4 śarc*êh*, Dat+Loc. 2-3-4 śarc*ên*, Instr. 2-3-4 śarc*è*mi; and 5-6-7... ś*â*rc.


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## robin74

Polish

masculine - pomidor - tomato
Na stole jest (jeden) pomidor
Na stole są dwa pomidory
Na stole jest pięć pomidorów

feminine - gruszka - pear
Na stole jest (jedna) gruszka
Na stole są dwie gruszki
Na stole jest pięć gruszek

neuter - jabłko - apple
Na stole jest (jedno) jabłko
Na stole są dwa jabłka
Na stole jest pięć jabłek

1 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
2, 3, 4 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
5 - 21 - genitive plural, the verb is in singular


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## TriglavNationalPark

Here is a summary for Slovenian in the format given by ilocas2, lior neith, and robin74 (which I neglected to include in post #30):

1 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
2 - nominative dual, the verb is in dual
3, 4 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
5 - 100 genitive plural, the verb is in singular
101 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
102 - nominative dual, the verb is in dual
103, 104 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
105 - 200 genitive plural, the verb is in singular

...and so on.


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## robin74

The OP only asked for numbers up to 19, so I didn't include any higher numbers, but in Polish it would be like this:
- if the numeral ends in 2, 3, 4 (unless it ends in 12, 13 or 14), so e.g. 982 or 1044 (but not 813), it behaves like 2 (so it's nominative plural, the verb is in plural)
- for other numerals larger than 20 (so ending in 0, 1, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12, 13 and 14) it's like with 5 (so genitive plural, the verb is in singular)


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## Azori

I forgot to add that animate masculine nouns in Slovak are also used in the nominative plural with numbers 5 and up (pomaranč is an inanimate masculine noun). For example:

študent - student - animate masculine

V triede je jeden študent. - There is one student in the classroom.
V triede sú dvaja študenti. - There are two students in the classroom.
V triede sú traja študenti. - There are three students in the classroom.
V triede sú štyria študenti. - There are four students in the classroom.

Starting with the number 5, the animate masculine nouns can be used both in the genitive plural and the nominative plural - both ways are correct:

V triede je päť študentov./V triede sú piati študenti.
V triede je šesť študentov./V triede sú šiesti študenti.

and so on... sedem/siedmi (7)...jedenásť/jedenásti (11)...dvadsať/dvadsiati (20)...dvadsaťtri/dvadsiati traja (23)...

There are exceptions:

Nouns with numbers ending in 1 (21, 31...etc. except 11) and numbers sto (hundred), tisíc (thousand), milión (million), miliarda (billion) - can be only in the genitive plural - dvadsaťjeden študentov, sto/tisíc/milión/miliarda študentov.


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## Duya

VelikiMag said:


> Could someone tell me in which case are feminine nouns after numbers 2, 3 and 4 in Serbian language?



Your question went unanswered .

Judging by the accent, it has the form of nominative plural (rather than genitive singular, as in masculine and neuter). Although the written forms are the same, the gen. sg. would have long last vowel, and it's just not there in e.g. _dve dobre prijateljice_. 

In the end, all of it is really a paucal, which is sort of half-recognized form in BCS.

Why? I don't know. I'm gonna check in Stevanović when I find some spare time.


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## VelikiMag

Duya said:


> Your question went unanswered .
> 
> Judging by the accent, it has the form of nominative plural (rather than genitive singular, as in masculine and neuter). Although the written forms are the same, the gen. sg. would have long last vowel, and it's just not there in e.g. _dve dobre prijateljice_.
> 
> In the end, all of it is really a paucal, which is sort of half-recognized form in BCS.
> 
> Why? I don't know. I'm gonna check in Stevanović when I find some spare time.



That is why I asked it. While reading this thread I actually realized that it can't be genitive singular, cause it has a long _e _at the end, almost like under stress. I must admit I haven't thought about it before, but somehow I expected that a rule would be universal, regardless of gender. Then it occured that maybe it has something to do with my dialect, but probably other dialects also make that small difference which could seem quite insignificant.
So for masculine and neuter there stands genitive singular, for numbers 2 to 4, and for feminine gender there is nominative plural.


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## Tjahzi

Thank you all for your contributions. However, I'm still very much determined to find more official sources on the subject. As such, I intend to try my best at googling for this occurrence in respective Slavic languages. As such, could you please let me know how this grammatical subject is referred to in your language. For instance, the English term would(/could) be "Conjugation of nouns governed by numerals (1-5)". 

Since Russian is the Slavic language with which I'm the most familiar, I've tried coming up with some guesses. However, neither "склонение имён существительных с именем числительными" or "cклонение имён существительных правятся имена числительные" (or any of my other, even more miserable, attempts) led anywhere. So, please help me out. 

I'm asking for is the translation of the term "Declension of nouns governed by numerals (1-5)", or whatever you would find more suitable.

Thanks in advance.


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## bibax

I think we have no special Czech term for the construction numeral + noun. The cardinal numerals have special declension patterns. The nouns are declined normally (in most cases).

For example (ryba = fish is feminine):

N jedna ryba
G jedné ryby
D jedné rybě
A jednu rybu
L jedné rybě
I jednou rybou

N dvě, tři, čtyři ryby
G dvou, tří, čtyř ryb
D dvěma, třem, čtyřem rybám
A dvě, tři, čtyři ryby
L dvou, třech, čtyřech rybách
I dvěma, třemi, čtyřmi rybami

N *pět ryb*
G pěti ryb
D pěti rybám
A *pět ryb*
L pěti rybách
I pěti rybami

As you can see the only anomaly is nom. and acc. "pět (šest, sedm, ...) ryb" where the noun is in genitive plural (like in "mnoho ryb" = many/a lot of fishes).

Similarly for the masculine (animate and inanimate) and neuter gender. Only the numeral jeden/jedna/jedno has gender depending forms (in both numbers), the numeral dva/dvě (m./f.+n.) has two different forms only in nom. and acc. (in dual number, of course).

Quite simple. (but _plurale tantum_ is another beast)


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## Istriano

*Jedna bira*, (one beer)
*dve biri *(two beers)
*tri biri*  (three beers)
ću ja popit, (I am going to drink)
a ki će ih platit (but who's gonna pay for them)


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## ibogi

I am curious, in all slavic languages, how do you decline this through cases. E.g.

Five women entered the room (nom)
This is the common task of five women (gen)
I gave the same task to five women (dat)
I saw five women (acc)
I went to the city with five women (instr)
Can't think of an example for locative


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## jazyk

_I am talking about five women_ would be locative at least in Czech, Slovak, Polish, and Russian when using the preposition _o_. I'll start with Slovak:

Päť žien vstúpilo do izby/miestnosti.
To je bežná úloha piatich žien.
Dal(a) som tú istú úlohu piatim ženám.
Videl(a) som päť žien.
Išiel/Išla som do mesta s piatimi ženami.
Hovorím o piatich ženách.


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## ibogi

jazyk said:


> _I am talking about five women_ would be locative at least in Czech, Slovak, Polish, and Russian when using the preposition _o_. I'll start with Slovak:
> 
> Päť žien vstúpilo do izby/miestnosti.
> To je bežná úloha piatich žien.
> Dal(a) som tú istú úlohu piatim ženám.
> Videl(a) som päť žien.
> Išiel/Išla som do mesta s piatimi ženami.
> Hovorím o piatich ženách.



So as far as I understand it, Nom and acc use number + genitive plural. Gen, dat, ins and loc use regular plural. I also notice that number inflects according to this pattern: Päť/piatich/piatim/piatimi/piatich. In my native Serbian, numbers above 4 do not inflect at all, e.g.:

Pet žena je ušlo u sobu
To je zajednički zadatak pet žena
(dative without preposition is not possible, you would need to restate it to Five women got the task) Pet žena je dobilo zadatak
Video sam pet žena
Išao sam u grad sa pet žena
Govorim o pet žena


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## jazyk

I would say your analysis is correct. As nobody else has replied, I will add Czech:

Pět žen vstoupilo do pokoje/místnosti.
To je běžná úloha/běžný úkol pěti žen.
Dal(a) jsem stejnou úlohu/stejný úkol pěti ženám.
Viděl(a) jsem pět žen.
Šel/Šla jsem do města s pěti ženami.
Hovořím/Mluvím o pěti ženách.

As you can see, the situation is easier in Czech. Instead of the adjectival forms that exist in Slovak, only an _i _is added in cases except nominative and accusative.

I see you used zajednički for common. I first interpreted common as regular, frequent, hence my translation. If it means _shared by different peo_p_le_, then you could use _společný _in Czech and _spoločný_ in Slovak.


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## jazyk

In Polish:

Pięć kobiet weszło do pokoju.
To jest wspólne zadanie pięciu kobiet.
Dałem/Dałam zadanie pięciu kobietom.
Widziałem/Widziałam piéć kobiet.
Poszedłem/Poszłam do miasta z pięciu/pięcioma kobietami.
Mówię o pięciu kobietach.

So, it works similarly to Czech, except that the instrumental also allows for the form pięcioma.


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## ilocas2

jazyk said:


> As you can see, the situation is easier in Czech. Instead of the adjectival forms that exist in Slovak, only an _i _is added in cases except nominative and accusative.



I think that the endings in Czech and Polish are continuation of endings in the previous stages of language back to Proto-Slavic, whereas Slovak abandoned these endings and adopted adjectival endings as a result of levelling declension patterns. Thus Slovak is actually more "primitive", even if paradoxically its endings are more variable than those of Czech and Polish.


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## jasio

Since this interesting old thread was revived, let me comment that:


robin74 said:


> Polish
> 
> masculine - pomidor - tomato
> Na stole jest (jeden) pomidor
> Na stole są dwa pomidory
> Na stole jest pięć pomidorów
> 
> feminine - gruszka - pear
> Na stole jest (jedna) gruszka
> Na stole są dwie gruszki
> Na stole jest pięć gruszek
> 
> neuter - jabłko - apple
> Na stole jest (jedno) jabłko
> Na stole są dwa jabłka
> Na stole jest pięć jabłek
> 
> 1 - nominative singular, the verb is in singular
> 2, 3, 4 - nominative plural, the verb is in plural
> 5 - 21 - genitive plural, the verb is in singular



Albeit it's generally true, it's far from being complete, because:

in plural only two "genders" (or rather 'categories') are recognised: masculine-personal (which refer to nouns which refer to human males, such as man, professor, soldier, lawyer, seller, student, etc), and non-masculine-personal, which refer to all other nouns (including those which in singular number are masculine but refer to animals, plants and not living objects, as well as feminine and neuter, whether alive or not),
different cases, forms of predicate and numerals may be used depending on the above, and - in case of humans - composition of the group.

For example in masculine-personal:

W pokoju jest jeden student (singular predicate, noun in singular nominative)

W pokoju jest dwóch/trzech/czterech studentów (ie. male students, genitive plural)
W pokoju są dwaj/trzej/czterej studenci (ie. male students, masculine-personal numeral, plural predicate, noun in plural nominative)

W pokoju jest dwoje/troje/czworo studentów (ie. a mixed group of males and females, genitive plural)

W pokoju jest pięciu studentów (ie. male students, genitive plural)

W pokoju jest pięcioro studentów (ie. a mixed group of males and females, genitive plural)
In case of female students (feminine gender in singular, non-masculine-personal in plural), it would be:

W pokoju jest jedna studentka (singular predicate, noun in singular nominative)

W pokoju są dwie/trzy/cztery studentki (plural predicate - the only option in this case, noun in plural nominative, although in case of this verb and many other it's a syncretic form with singular genitive)
W pokoju jest pięć studentek (singular predicate, noun in plural genitive)
in case of a cat (masculine gender in singular, non-masculine-personal in plural):


W pokoju jest jeden kot (singular predicate, noun in singular nominative)

W pokoju są dwa/trzy/cztery koty (plural predicate - the only option in this case, noun in plural nominative)
W pokoju jest pięć kotów (singular predicate, noun in plural genitive)
To make the picture more complete, although in Polish there is no dual number as such any more, there are a few relics of archaic dual preserved in none-standard forms of some nouns which typically refair to pairs of something. For example, plural of hint (or a clock hand) ('wskazówka' in Polish) is 'wskazówki', and in instrumental case - 'wskazówkami' (both regular). However, in case of hand ('ręka') plural is 'ręce', and instrumental is 'rękoma', both of which are relic dual. Also eyes ('oko' in singular, 'oczy' in plural) can be both 'oczyma' (a relic dual) and 'oczami' (regular). Moreover, the same word ('oko') may also refer to eyes of a net or drops of fat on a soup - but in this case the plural nominative is 'oka', and instrumental plural is 'okami'. This is not a rule though, as 'noga' (leg) or 'ucho' (ear), 'pośladek' (buttock) are all regular (nogi, nogami, uszy, uszami, pośladki, pośladkami) although they also typically are referred to in pairs.


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## Yatalu

I know this is a fairly old thread, but since it seems like no usage examples have been added from Macedonian, I hope this is helpful to any of you: in Macedonian at least (and Bulgarians can let us know if it is the same in Bulgarian as well), there is something called *numeric plural* which stems from the old dual. A couple of notes:

This only still remains in masculine; feminine and neuter no longer have it
This goes for masculine non-animate nouns (people are counted with -мина or with души)
The numbers that it goes with is subjective: some people use it only for 2, 3, some people continue using it beyond ten
The words that it goes with also seems subjective: especially "дена" (from ден, day) seems to be a popular word to put in numeric plural
Either way, let's put some breads on the table as an example:

Има еден леб на масата. (1)
Има два леба на масата. (2)
Има три леба на масата. (3)
Има четири леба на масата. (4)
Има многу лебови на масата. (many)


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## Saley

In *Ukrainian* things are somewhat more complicated than in Russian. If we consider “numeral + noun” phrases where the numeral is 1 to 20, the difference between the languages is found only in the nominative case of the phrase with 2, 3, 4. I’m going to describe only this construction.

*1.* Unlike in Russian, the counted noun is not generally in the genitive singular (G.Sg), but rather has a form that is similar to the nominative plural (N.Pl). For example:

_два *хло́пці*_ ‘two boys’ (compare N.Sg _хло́пець_ masc.; G.Sg _хло́пця_; N.Pl *хло́пці*)
_три *ти́жні*_ ‘three weeks’ (N.Sg _ти́ждень_ masc.; G.Sg _ти́жня_; N.Pl *ти́жні*)
_чотири *мо́ви*_ ‘four languages’ (N.Sg _мо́ва_ fem.; G.Sg *мо́ви* = N.Pl *мо́ви*)
_дві *но́чі*_ ‘two nights’ (N.Sg _ніч_ fem.; G.Sg *но́чі* = N.Pl *но́чі*)
_три *пита́ння*_ ‘three questions’ (N.Sg *пита́ння* neut. = G.Sg *пита́ння* = N.Pl *пита́ння*)
That the form of the noun is definitely N.Pl can be said only for masculine nouns, while for feminine and neuter nouns it can as well be considered G.Sg because the two forms coincide (G.Sg = N.Pl).

*2.* However, when the noun has a declensional paradigm with different stress position in G.Sg vs. N.Pl, the stress in the counted noun is the same as in G.Sg:

_дві *руки́*_ ‘two hands’ (N.Sg _рука́_ fem.; G.Sg *руки́*; N.Pl _ру́ки_)
_три *пíсні*_ ‘three songs’ (N.Sg _пíсня_ fem.; G.Sg *пíсні*; N.Pl _піснí_)
_чотири *села́*_ ‘four villages’ (N.Sg _село́_ neut.; G.Sg *села́*; N.Pl _се́ла_)
_два *мо́ря*_ ‘two sees’ (N.Sg _мо́ре_ neut.; G.Sg *мо́ря*; N.Pl _моря́_)
The most interesting thing is that for masculine nouns this has the effect that the counted noun has a hybrid form combining the N.Pl ending and the G.Sg stress:

_два *вчи́телі*_ ‘two teachers’ (N.Sg _вчи́тель_ masc.; G.Sg _вчи́теля_; N.Pl _вчителí_)
_три *ро́ки*_ ‘three years’ (N.Sg _рік_ masc.; G.Sg _ро́ку_; N.Pl _роки́_)
So, while feminine and neuter counted nouns have a form coinciding with G.Sg, masculine counted nouns have a form that doesn’t even belong to the paradigm.

*3.* Finally, a minor class of nouns whose plural stem is different from the singular stem (the first two examples below) as well as several other nouns exhibit the true G.Sg form (as in Russian) when counted:

_дві *дíвчини*_ ‘two girls’ (N.Sg _дíвчина_ fem.; G.Sg *дíвчини*; N.Pl _дівча́та_)
_три *громадя́нина*_ ‘three citizens’ (N.Sg _громадя́нин_ masc., G.Sg *громадя́нина*, N.Pl _громадя́ни_)
_чотири *íмені*_ ‘four names’ (N.Sg _ім’я́_ neut.; G.Sg *íмені*; N.Pl _імена́_)
_два *плеча́*_ ‘two shoulders’ (N.Sg _плече́_ neut.; G.Sg *плеча́*; N.Pl _пле́чі_)


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## Encolpius

Saley said:


> That the form of the noun is definitely N.Pl can be said only for masculine nouns, while for feminine and neuter nouns it can as well be considered G.Sg because the two forms coincide (G.Sg = N.Pl).



The same form in nouns, but if you use them with an adjective it is evident it is plural, right? How would you say: *three long nights?*


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## Saley

The adjective can be in N.Pl or G.Pl, like in Russian:

_два мале́нькі/мале́ньких *камінцí*_ ‘two little pebbles’ (N.Sg _мале́нький каміне́ць_ masc.; G.Sg _мале́нького камінця́_; N.Pl _мале́нькі *камінцí*_; G.Pl _мале́ньких камінцíв_)
_три до́вгі/до́вгих *но́чі*_ ‘three long nights’ (N.Sg _до́вга ніч_ fem.; G.Sg _до́вгої *но́чі*_; N.Pl _до́вгі *но́чі*_; G.Pl _до́вгих ноче́й_)
_чотири дале́кі/дале́ких *села́*_ ‘four remote villages’ (N.Sg _дале́ке село́_ neut.; G.Sg _дале́кого *села́*_; N.Pl _дале́кі се́ла_; G.Pl _дале́ких сіл_)
There are some preferences as to which form to use in certain contexts though.

That said, the form of the adjective doesn’t help us decide whether we should analyze the counted noun as G.Sg or N.Pl.


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## Encolpius

Interesting indeed.


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## polskajason

ibogi said:


> (dative without preposition is not possible, you would need to restate it to Five women got the task) Pet žena je dobilo zadatak



Why couldn't you say "Dao sam zadatak pet žena"?


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## Panceltic

polskajason said:


> Why couldn't you say "Dao sam zadatak pet žena"?



I'm pretty sure you can, but you need to use the dative: Dao sam zadatak pet ženama.


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## bibax

In Czech we have also the numerals *dvé, tré* + gen. plur. (they are rather bookish):

Dvé šlechticů veronských (gen. plur.) = The Two Gentlemen of Verona (Shakespeare's comedy);
Tré králův (obs. gen. plur.) přišlo od Východu. = Three kings came from the East.


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## Encolpius

Very interesting comment, bibax.


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## Lorenc

Saley said:


> In *Ukrainian* things are somewhat more complicated than in Russian. If we consider “numeral + noun” phrases where the numeral is 1 to 20, the difference between the languages is found only in the nominative case of the phrase with 2, 3, 4.



That's a very interesting post Saley! 
To sum up, is it be correct to say that:
1) Feminine and neuter nouns use genitive singular of the thing counted (like Russian). 
2) Masculine nouns use the nominative-plural ending BUT with the genitive-singular stress pattern. That seems a rather nasty little rule to remember and apply for foreigners! 

BTW, does Ukrainian distinguish in nominative plural virile and non-virile masculine nouns, as Polish does? 
From your answer I'd suspect it doesn't, but you never know. For example, in Polish:
jeden chłopiec, dwaj chłopcy (one boy, two boys - nominative plural ending is -y for virile nouns with Nom. Sing. -c)
jeden taniec, dwa tańce (one dance, two dances - nominative plural ending is -e for non-virile nouns with Nom. Sing. -c)


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## Saley

Lorenc said:


> To sum up, [...]


Yes, your rules are correct, except for masculine nouns that lose the suffix _-ин-_ in the plural (e.g. _громадянин_).


> does Ukrainian distinguish in nominative plural virile and non-virile masculine nouns, as Polish does?


No, there’s no distinction between them: _один хло́пець_, _два хло́пці_; _один та́нець_, _два та́нці_.

As for the numeral *1.5*, the noun after it is in the genitive singular even if it is masculine:

_півтора́ *ро́ку*_ ‘one and a half years’ (N.Sg _рік_ masc.)
_півтори́ *годи́ни*_ ‘one and a half hours’ (N.Sg _годи́на_ fem.)
_півтора́ *відра́*_ ‘one and a half buckets’ (N.Sg _відро́_ neut.)


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## Lorenc

Saley said:


> No, there’s no distinction between them: _один хло́пець_, _два хло́пці_; _один та́нець_, _два та́нці_.
> As for the numeral *1.5*, the noun after it is in the genitive singular even if it is masculine:



Thanks! That's quite interesting. By the way, if I'm not mistaken a somewhat similar phenomenon happens in Russian with some words, such as час, which formally has genitive singular _ча́са_ but when used with a numeral (two hours, three hours) it uses the special 'paucal form' (Паукальная форма) _часа́,_ which has a different stress pattern.  Also, some other words such as _у́тро_ have a formal genitive _у́тра_ but use the stress-shifted form _утра́ _in expressions such as 'at five in the morning', _в пять_ _утра́. _
It's a complicated business this mobile word-stress.


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