# super vs. very



## zaffy

I've noticed you use 'super' the same way as 'very' to modify adjectives.

"It is very important".  = "It is super important".

However, 'very' can't be used with strong adjectives. We may say "very tired" but we can't say "very exhausted". Now does 'super' go with any kind of adjectives, the strong ones too?

very exhausted  vs. super exhausted
very hilarious vs.  super hilarious
very essential vs. super essential
very terrified vs. super terrified


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## Chez

Yes, 'super' can be used in this way. It is typical 'inflationary' language; in other words, sometimes 'very' doesn't seem strong enough to people so they use 'super' instead to make it sound more extreme. It is not strictly grammatical, so for that reason you can use it anywhere you like (as it is 'incorrect' in any case). I suggest avoid using it. In your examples: super exhausted sounds like something people would say; super hilarious rather less so; and super essential doesn't sound very likely to me. It's spoken language, so you might hear it with any adjective.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> I've noticed you use 'super' the same way as 'very' to modify adjectives.


Yes, I have too - annoying isn't it?


zaffy said:


> However, 'very' can't be used with strong adjectives.


I know these adjectives as "ungradeable adjectives" (those that describe an absolute state).

The category is a little nebulous, and often depends on context, but as an example
"She was very dead" / She was very pregnant<- these are rarely correct. But I would see, "She was super dead/pregnant" in the same way.

I would accept "very exhausted / hilarious" although "*most*" would be the usual adverb.
Very essential vs. super essential - I think translating "super" as *most *solves the problem here.


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## zaffy

Chez said:


> It is not strictly grammatical, so for that reason you can use it anywhere you like (as it is 'incorrect' in any case). I suggest avoid using it.



That's interesting what you're saying. Longman says it is just informal and Cambridge adds it is old-fashioned. But they don't say not to use it.


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## velisarius

The Cambridge example is slightly different: _The museum is a super place for kids. _The Longman examples are similar to it.

_Museums are super educational!_ This is more recent usage.


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> But they don't say not to use it.


Does either dictionary say that there are words that you should not use?


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> Does either dictionary say that there are words that you should not use?



Well, Longman quite often gives "Don't say...." advice like the one shown in the attached picture.

Anyway, I'm confused. I watched a video where an American living in Poland said that Poles use 'super' incorrectly. We, in Polish, use it a lot, but we never modify adjectives. We just describe things or people saying "It was super." So he appealed to use 'super' only in front of adjectives like "It was super fun". And now I see these two dictionary examples where 'super' is used just like we do it in Polish. 

"Did you enjoy the film?" "Yes, I thought it was super."
"That sounds super."


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## sound shift

Widespread use of "super" + adjective is in my experience a recent phenomenon that's limited to younger speakers, so some people may see it as slangy. Like Chez, I think it's best avoided, particularly in an assessment environment.


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## zaffy

Might this be an AE/BE thing?


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> Might this be an AE/BE thing?


No. I think neither AE nor BE like it very much. To me it sounds patronisingly enthusiastic. (It could be because I am old... I can't speak for the others... )


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## heypresto

It sounds super patronisingly enthusiastic to me too. But then I'm super old, like PaulQ. 

I agree with the others, it should be super avoided.

It's super annoying, isn't it?


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## zaffy

Anyway, do you agree that 'super' should be followed by an adjective like that American said? If so, why do the dictionary examples show 'super' used a standalone word, exactly like we say in Polish? 

"Did you enjoy the film?" "Yes, I thought it was super."
"That sounds super."


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## heypresto

_Super_, meaning _great, excellent, superb, wonderful, outstanding, marvellous etc _is fine, but it's not so fine (to many of us) as an alternative to 'very'.


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## zaffy

heypresto said:


> _Super_, meaning _great, excellent, superb, wonderful, outstanding, marvellous etc _is fine, but it's not so fine (to many of us) as an alternative to 'very'.



Could that mean that AE speakers don't use 'super' meaning g_reat, excellent, superb _etc? 

So this conversation is natural in BE, right?
A: How was the dinner?
B: It was delicious, and the restaurant was super.


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## heypresto

Yes, it sounds natural. Personally, I probably wouldn't say it, but it's perfectly natural.

I can't speak for our AE speaking friends.


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## kentix

zaffy said:


> "Did you enjoy the film?" "Yes, I thought it was super."
> "That sounds super."


To me it sounds like something from the 1950s. It's not wrong, but I can't imagine too many people saying it today on a regular basis.


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## zaffy

I watched a video on learning English about 'music' vocabulary and the Canadian said "It is super fun to go to a concert."  Now is perhaps "super fun" kind of a set phrase that BE might accept, or would a BE speaker still not use it and find it unnatural?


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## zaffy

kentix said:


> To me it sounds like something from the 1950s. It's not wrong, but I can't imagine too many people saying it today on a regular basis.



So this must be the clue. Looks like AE speakers use 'super' like 'very' only   and BE speakers use it as an adjective, a synonym to 'excellent', etc


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> So this conversation is natural in BE, right?


If I change it a little:
A: How was the dinner?
B: It was super delicious, and the restaurant was super.
.............adverb............................................adjective.

It is 'super' the adverb to which people object.

I don't think that anyone is saying that it is wrong, merely that it is annoying.


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> It was super delicious, and the restaurant was super.



It is now a great example. A BE speaker doesn't like the first 'super' and an AE one doesn't like the second 'super'.


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## kentix

In AE, usage of the first would be in very, very informal speech. You wouldn't read it in a magazine review of a restaurant or hear it in "regular" conversation.


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## Chez

Zaffy, I think the BE/AE difference you are trying to see is irrelevant. Paul IQ's example and explanation sums it up beautifully for all English speakers.

By the way, I, too, never say 'It was a super restaurant' and find it old-fashioned (I speak BE), but it is perfectly natural and acceptable usage in this context.


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## zaffy

Chez said:


> By the way, I, too, never say 'It was a super restaurant' and find it old-fashioned.



And "The restaurant was super." sounds equally old-fashioned to your BE ears too, right?


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## Chez

I think I said that.


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## zaffy

I asked that Canadian teacher what his feelings were about having said "It is super fun to go to a concert." in his video and he replied: 
"Using super in this way is very common in spoken English and has been for a super long time. "


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## PaulQ

The OED entry for "super" was updated in 2012, and there is no mention of "super" as an adverb...


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## zaffy

But look here, it is gaining popularity dramatically  

Google Ngram Viewer


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## sound shift

"Super fun" is not a very good example, because we can't tell whether "fun" is being used as a noun or as an adjective.


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## Uncle Jack

PaulQ said:


> The OED entry for "super" was updated in 2012, and there is no mention of "super" as an adverb...


That's not quite correct. There are some examples in the "super-, prefix" entry, for example:
1959    _Pop. Sci._ Oct. 65/3         (_advt._)                       Mimeographing—Highest Quality, Super Quick Service.​


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## zaffy

sound shift said:


> "Super fun" is not a very good example, because we can't tell whether "fun" is being used as a noun or as an adjective.



I was actually going to ask if you take it as a noun or an adjective. So here a native speaker doesn't sense this difference? 

I've checked 'super important" and the result is the same. A dramatic increase in popularity over the last decade or two  
Google Ngram Viewer


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## kentix

zaffy said:


> "It is super fun to go to a concert."


That's very casual speech (dare I say super casual). As mentioned above, it is used that way in casual speech. It's not commonly used that way in higher registers of speech and especially writing.

For instance, no news report is going to mention a "super large" forest fire threatening a town. It won't be put in print that way and it won't be read on TV or radio news that way.

I wouldn't tell my boss we have a "super big" problem.

I wouldn't expect my doctor to tell me I have have super high cholesterol level.

If I were a teenage girl I might tell my best friend her new hairstyle looks super cute.


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## velisarius

I couldn't access this New York Times article, because I've used up my one free article for the month, but it looks super relevant:

A Certain Word Is Really Getting on My Nerves


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## PaulQ

Uncle Jack said:


> There are some examples in the "super-, prefix" entry, for example:


I missed that as I did not consider "super", as per the OP, to be a prefix, but a word in its own right.

It is rather difficult with these to determine if the "super" indicates, adverbially, a higher (above/greater, etc.) form of the adjective (c.f. supra-); a more excellent form of the adjective (the use in question); or is an adjective modifying the noun consecutively.

To add to the confusion there are hyphenated words and combined words

I found 1914    _Living Age_ 17 Oct. 61/2  Experience the delight of being super-fit or ‘feeling fit’. Which I would take to be "beyond fit"/"more than fit", rather than very fit.
I find it difficult to believe this is the same as "Oh, yes, Steve could run that far... he's super fit."


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## ewie

kentix said:


> I wouldn't tell my boss we have a "super big" problem.


Your boss might suggest you embiggen your vocabulary, Kentix 

I agree that _super_ [adj.] is decidedly old-fashioned in BrE ... and in AmE (I can hear someone like Katharine Hepburn saying it in a film like _Bringing up Baby _[1938] but not someone like Vin Diesel  )


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## lingobingo

zaffy said:


> I was actually going to ask if you take it as a noun or an adjective. So here a native speaker doesn't sense this difference?


It’s rarely a noun. I think the only one I know is a contraction of superintendent.

We had a super holiday / The hotel was super — adjective (sounds very outdated, as ewie says)​​The play was super boring / That was a super-fast journey — adverb​


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## heypresto

I was about to mention Reggie Perrin, but then I thought better of it.


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## Uncle Jack

heypresto said:


> I was about to mention Reggie Perrin, but then I thought better of it.


Great!


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## sound shift

kentix said:


> That's very casual speech (dare I say super casual). As mentioned above, it is used that way in casual speech. It's not commonly used that way in higher registers of speech and especially writing.
> 
> For instance, no news report is going to mention a "super large" forest fire threatening a town. It won't be put in print that way and it won't be read on TV or radio news that way.
> 
> I wouldn't tell my boss we have a "super big" problem.
> 
> I wouldn't expect my doctor to tell me I have have super high cholesterol level.
> 
> If I were a teenage girl I might tell my best friend her new hairstyle looks super cute.



Yes. This "super" is in the same register as "way". It's way much too casual and 'youth-speak' for many situations and for many speakers' liking.


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## zaffy

PaulQ said:


> I would accept "very exhausted / hilarious" although "*most*" would be the usual adverb.
> Very essential vs. super essential - I think translating "super" as *most *solves the problem here.



Longman says 'most' may mean 'very', but in a formal language. So would it be natural to say to a friend of mine "I'm not going to the game tonight. I'm most exhausted" ?


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## velisarius

No.

_I'm quite/completely/totally exhausted_ would be fine in BE.


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## lingobingo

You cannot consider *most* to be a natural substitute for *very* — especially when modifying an adjective rather than an adverb. There are few expressions in which that works. And even when it does, it’s always formal and often outdated. Some typical examples:

I’m most grateful / that was most interesting / that’s most kind of you ​​With negatives: most unusual / unlikely / inappropriate / unnecessary​​Old-fashioned, “posh”: she was a most beautiful creature / I find that most remarkable​


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## PaulQ

zaffy said:


> PaulQ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would accept "very exhausted / hilarious" although "*most*" would be the usual adverb.
> Very essential vs. super essential - I think translating "super" as *most *solves the problem here.
> 
> 
> 
> Longman says 'most' may mean 'very', but in a formal language. So would it be natural to say to a friend of mine "I'm not going to the game tonight. I'm most exhausted" ?
Click to expand...

"Most" is indeed, very formal in this context - just correct, but bordering on awkward.

A: "Are you going to the game tonight?"
B: "I'd love to but I'm most exhausted... I think I'll go to bed." (You'd be much more likely to say "really" or "absolutely".)


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## velisarius

I'd consider "most exhausted" an error, just like "very exhausted". It isn't idiomatic. You can be _nearly exhausted, rather exhausted, exhausted, or completely exhausted._ I don't hear people saying they are "very exhausted".


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