# FR: c'était gentil(le) - accord



## sunonmyside

Hello,

I want to use the phrase 'c'était vraiment gentil de ta part' in a card I'm writing to my female teacher. Do I need to make anything feminine?

merci beaucoup


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## broglet

I think c'est and c'était always assume that the 'ce' is masculine even when it's feminine but please await confirmation from a native French speaker


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## jekoh

broglet said:


> I think c'est and c'était always assume that the 'ce' is masculine even when it's feminine


What exactly is 'feminine' about 'ce' in this sentence, though?

It really works the same as the English '*it* was very nice of you'.


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## broglet

you are right - in this sentence the 'ce' is not feminine - in fact it is not a pronoun at all, but even when it is a pronoun standing in for a feminine noun (eg 'c'est bon cette boisson') it is treated as though it's masculine


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## Maître Capello

_Ce_ is always a neuter (i.e., genderless and numberless) pronoun. It is therefore masculine singular. As suggested by Jekoh, it simply means "it" (or "this" or "that"). In Sunonmyside's sentence, it refers to *what* was nice of her.

In a nutshell:
_*C'*était genti*l* de votre part_.
_*Elle* est genti*lle*._


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## broglet

In _C'était gentil de votre part _I don't think 'ce' is a pronoun, because it doesn't replace a noun, but I don't know what it is.


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## Maître Capello

_Ce_ is a demonstrative pronoun. It is a pronoun because it can be replaced by a noun. For example:

_Merci pour votre aide. *C'*était gentil de votre part._ [_Ce_ = le fait de m'avoir aidé]


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## broglet

Thank you for your interesting and ingenious suggestion but your analysis seems incorrect.  A fact cannot be kind.

I think the word 'ce' in this context might be what English grammarians call a 'dummy (or pleonastic or expletive) pronoun' like the 'it' in 'it is raining'.


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## Maître Capello

I beg to disagree. A fact *can* be _gentil_ in French.

And the _ce_ is definitely not explétif because it cannot be dropped. It is not even impersonal (as in _il pleut_) because it does refer to something (known from context).


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## broglet

It is an expletive because it adds nothing to the meaning (which can be inferred from what follows). 

It is only required for syntactical reasons and it can be eliminated by rearranging the syntax: _tu étais gentille ..._


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## Maître Capello

Please note that _explétif_ in French implies that the word is optional.

Anyway, the _ce_ is not just required for syntactical reasons; it does refer to something specific, which is the very reason it is called a pronoun.

PS – I won't further argue with you.


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## broglet

sorry if you thought it was an argument - I thought it was an interesting discussion - but I am happy to stop here

best wishes - brian


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## AmaryllisBunny

Is there a term in French for the "dummy pronoun," "pleonastic pronoun," or "expletive [pronoun]?" In certain cases of function and meaning, it has a name that corresponds to the English equivalent—e.g., "Weather Pronoun : Pronoms Météorologiques" (Taken from "Weather Verbs : Verbes Météorologiques " (747 Riegel)). However, I am only able to find the following, "En effet, dans toutes ces constructions, le _il_ impersonnel fonctionne comme *une forme postiche* (un pur réagisseur verbal, référentiellement vide) destinée à occuper la place canonique du sujet non pourvue ou devenue vacante" (750 Riegel).

This is from '_Grammaire méthodique du français_.' 

In the Grevisse §781 page 1004, there is one mention that since "pronoms *impersonnels*" is too vague in referring to inanimate objects or animate "things," "pronoms *uni*personnels" has sometimes been used.



Edit: From the context given, it is known as a "referential" in English. This is not seemingly the case of an expletive.


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