# Topic and definiteness



## Nino83

Hello everyone.

I know that topics and subjects are different things (like in この木は葉が大きいです。, often called "double subject" sentences), but I'm wondering if in some contexts  は is similar to the definite article and が and を to the indefinite article.

For example:
猫はテーブルの上にある！*The* cat is on the table! (Context: Someone is looking for his/her cat, and I tell him/her "hey, *the* cat is on the table!", it's understood that we're speaking about his/her cat)
テーブルの上に猫がある！There's *a* cat on the table! (Context: We have no cats. Someone forgot closing the door and a cat got into the house and now it's on the table. So one says "hey, there's *a* cat on the table!")
本は、読んだ。 I read *the* book. (Context: I meet a friend of mine. Yesterday we spoke about a specific book. Then I say "Hi, John. Yesterday I read *the* book.")
本を読んだ。 I read *a* book. (Context: I meet a friend of mine. We're starting a new conversation. I say "Hi, John. Yesterday I read *a* book." and he replies "Ah, well. Which book?". It's a new book.)

What I'd like to ask you is if you say 本を読んだ even in the first context. Does 本を読んだ mean "I read *a* book" or can it also mean "I read *the* book".


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## frequency

Nino83 said:


> 猫はテーブルの上にいる！*The* cat is on the table!
> テーブルの上に猫がいる！There's *a* cat on the table!


These interpretations are possible.



> 本は、読んだ。 I read *the* book.
> 本を読んだ。 I read *a* book.


These interpretations are possible, too.



> Does 本を読んだ mean "I read *a* book" or "I read *the* book".


This is the problem―both are possible. So,


> if in some contexts は is similar to the definite article and が and を to the indefinite article.


I'd say yes and no. And this is kind of a mystery.


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## Nino83

frequency said:


> This is the problem―both are possible.


Ok. 
I asked this question because in this map (about indefinite articles) it is said that Japanese has an "Indefinite word distinct from 'one'"  and I've found it very strange.
Then, clicking on the map there is a reference "Hinds, John. 1986. Japanese. (Croom Helm Descriptive Grammars, 4.) London: Croom Helm, Routledge.".
In a book of Hinds it is said that:


> In Japanese, initial mention is made by marking the noun phrase with the particle ga; subsequent mention marks the noun phrase with the particle wa, or it employs ellipsis.


And in a book of Misahiko Minani it is said that:


> In terms of functions, the particle ga generally corresponds to the indefinite article (a/an) in English, whereas wa generally corresponds to the definite article (the). (Note that either definite nor indefinite articles exist in Japanese.)



So, it seems that they're speaking only about the particle _ga_.

Then, another question.
テーブルの上に猫がある！There's *a* cat on the table!
Is this the only acceptable interpretation, or can it be used in the first context (*The* cat, we're speaking about, is on the table)?


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## frequency

> In Japanese, initial mention is made by marking the noun phrase with the particle ga; subsequent mention marks the noun phrase with the particle wa, or it employs ellipsis.


Not always. Nino, I'm sorry to say that this information isn't sufficient!



> In terms of functions, the particle ga generally corresponds to the indefinite article (a/an) in English, whereas wa generally corresponds to the definite article (the).


I'm sorry to say that we have the argument that if the は particle can work as a subject marker or not. So I'll have to talk to you about this topic first.



> So, it seems that they're speaking only about the particle _ga_.


Haha, good.




> テーブルの上に猫がある！There's *a* cat on the table!
> Is this the only acceptable interpretation, or can it be used in the first context (*The* cat, we're speaking about, is on the table)?



_*The* cat, we're speaking about, is on the table_
This is, 猫はテーブルの上にいる！
You say the cat. So this 「猫は」 means "As for that/the cat". _As for the cat, it is on the table. If I speak about the cat (that we/you mentioned), it is on the table._
猫がテーブルの上にいる！ sounds to me _There is a cat on the table._


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## YangMuye

*猫は*可愛い *A cat* is cute. (Cats are cute.)
*それが*何か Any problem with *that*?

Never found a reliable rule of は and が.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

*(edit) This is a response to #3.*


I don't think Hinds's explanation is true. The phenomenon seems only coincidental.

むかしむかし、おじいさんとおばあさん*が*住んでいました。(*ga=an *old man and *an* old lady)
おじいさん*は*山に芝刈りに行きました。（*ha= the *old man)
Yes, so far so good, but it doesn't explain the following sentence.
おばあさん*が*川で洗濯していると、大きな桃がどんぶらこ、どんぶらこと流れてきました。（*ga ≠ an* old lady)

Ellipsis can be used for third person(s) and "you" and also "I" when it is apparent what the subject is. As a result, I can agree that in some cases, ellipsis functions like the definite article, "the."

.........................................

私の飼っていた猫は、１０年前に彼女ができるとどこかにいなくなってしまった。
ところがだ、今日家に帰ってみるとテーブルの上に*猫*がいる！
In this context, the 猫 in bold letter can mean both "the cat" and "a cat."

a)
私の飼っていた*猫*は、１０年前に彼女ができるとどこかにいなくなってしまった。
ところがだ、今日家に帰ってみるとテーブルの上に*猫*がいる！　*（a cat)*
よく見てみると*その猫*は年老いていたが、私の飼っていた*猫*だった。 (the cat: the cat)

b)
私の飼っていた*猫*は、１０年前に彼女ができるとどこかにいなくなってしまった。
ところがだ、今日家に帰ってみるとテーブルの上に*猫*がいる！　*（the cat)
(猫を（ellipsis)）*久しぶりに抱きかかえて、頬ずりした。 *(the cat)*


It depends on each context, and you cannot adopt the rule always.
If you want to express "the" in Japanese, why don't you use その?

その猫は（が） (the cat)
そのおじいさんは（が） (the old man)

私の飼っていた猫は、１０年前に彼女ができるとどこかにいなくなってしまった。
ところがだ、今日家に帰ってみるとテーブルの上に*その猫*がいる！　(the cat)


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## Nino83

Thank you very much!


SoLaTiDoberman said:


> おばあさん*が*川で洗濯していると、大きな桃がどんぶらこ、どんぶらこと流れてきました。（*ga ≠ an* old lady)


True. After you introduce two persons, you use が to switch from a subject to another one, but this subject is definite because it was just introduced before.
It is also used to reintroduce a just known subject like in the other examples.

So, it seems that in the Hinds's explanation there are some generalizations while the particle が can introduce both new (indefinite, an) and just known (definite, the) subjects.


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## Flaminius

It looks to me that one of the reasons that trigger topicalisation is definiteness.


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## Nino83

Yes, Flaminius.
は is more similar to a definite article than が is to an indefinite article.
Anyway, in this map it is said that Japanese has no definite articles but indefinite articles.
That's very strange.


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## jazyk

Nino83 said:


> 猫はテーブルの上にある！*The* cat is on the table! (Context: Someone is looking for his/her cat, and I tell him/her "hey, *the* cat is on the table!", it's understood that we're speaking about his/her cat)
> テーブルの上に猫がある！There's *a* cat on the table! (Context: We have no cats. Someone forgot closing the door and a cat got into the house and now it's on the table. So one says "hey, there's *a* cat on the table!")


It should be iru instead of aru, shouldn't it?


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## Nino83

Yes, as you can see from SoLaTiDoberman's examples and frequency's comments.


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