# 'Clothe/ live (dwell)' - any links --- Habit/habitude/habitat, etc.



## ThomasK

I thought of 
- 'habit' (or robe) in French and 'habitat' (dwelling place)
- 'vêtements' in French and 'investissement' 
- 'costume' in French and 'coûtume'

So: *do you have the root 'cloth(e)' as a root word in (older) non-vestimentary words ? *

_[In Dutch we have 'inkleden' (like clothing thoughts), but that is a synchronic metaphor, where the link with clothes is still 'felt'. Those are not meant... ]_

The word 'habit' seems linked with 'to 'have' (frequentative) or 'to hold'. But I am still wondering whether the dress meaning is older than the one referring to a dwelling place. But I guess so.


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## ThomasK

I came across another link I had not yet realized : 
 - the Dutch _lichaam_ is a body [_lijk_] - cover (cloth) [_haam_, related with _home_ in English]


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## berndf

According to Grimm (entry "Kleid", the German cognate of "cloth(e)") the oldest documented occurrences are in North-Germanic languages and the West-Germanic languages with direct contact with North-Germanic, i.e. Anglo-Saxon and Friesian. Only later did the word enter other West-Germanic languages. It isn't documented in Gothic either. Even in the oldest occurrences that word meant clothing or the fabric clothing is made of. Any etymological relationship to other words in any IE language are pure speculation (would be a fine bed-time story).


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## ThomasK

Did I suggest that ? I do not think so. I am referring to the concept of 'cloth(e)' and asking whether the word in all kinds of languages turns up in a lot of different metaphorical meanings, as in the four examples  I mention. 

You see ?


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## berndf

I just gave a summary and translation of what Grimm writes about the etymology of the word for your information (including the "fine bed-time story"). I did not imply or suggest anything.


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## ThomasK

OK, I see, sorry. But I did try to explore that etymology to see whether I could not find any metaphorical use of 'cloth' in another word , but I could not.


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## sokol

ThomasK said:


> OK, I see, sorry. But I did try to explore that etymology to see whether I could not find any metaphorical use of 'cloth' in another word , but I could not.


A moderator note concerning this, ThomasK:

This forum is for discussions of "Etymology and History of Languages". If you want to explore metaphorical uses of "cloth" in other words or languages then this would be semantics - the right place for that would not be EHL forum (if formulated correctly according to "All Languages Forum" guidelines it could be a valid thread over there).

But as you have brought in the etymological point of view I suggest we focus on etymology only here.
Thanks for your understanding.
sokol
Moderator EHL


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## ThomasK

Thanks for your understanding ! 

I just want the etymology indeed: words (verbs) containing a word referring to clothes but not the verbs referring to clothing as such. That is somehow a matter of metaphor, but I am just looking for examples of verbs.


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## ThomasK

...

So: does *any verb/ word referring to *_*cloth(e*) _contain *the same etymological root as to dwell/ to live* in your language ? 
- _Habit_ and _habitat (_ENG), 
- _habit _and _habiter_ (FRA)


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## miguel89

In Spanish it's the same as in French: *hábito *and *habitar*. Then there is the whole family of nouns and verbs (with a variety of prefixes) akin to the latin verb _vestīre, _which I think is also present in English, in French and in other languages. Finally, I can think of verbs like *abrigar *or *arropar *(which come from or belong to the same family as *abrigo *["coat", from Lat. _aprīcus_] and *ropa *["clothes", ultimately from Proto-Germanic _*raupjan, _through Gothic, related to Ger. _raufen_] respectively) which beside their literal meanings have metaphorical ones, like "to protect" or "to defend". But I guess this isn't what you are asking for, since this metaphorical sense is surely to appear in many languages.


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## ThomasK

Oh yes, it is, Miguel: that was my starting-point (_in-vest, custom/ costume_, ...). Great !


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## federicoft

French _habit_ (and its cognates in other Romance languages) comes from Latin _habitus_, which is indeed linked to _habere_ (to have, i.e. "what you bring with you"). Its primary meaning is 'mental habit' or 'custom' though. The 'robe' meaning is subsequent.

_Habitat_,_ habiter_ etc. come from _habitāre _(to dwell), which is ultimately the frequentative form of _habere_.


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## ThomasK

So indeed the clothes meaning is first. Thanks. 

I am just looking forward to Chinese or Finnish-Ugrian or ... contributions... Whether there is a similar ambiguity over there as well...


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## federicoft

ThomasK said:


> So indeed the clothes meaning is first. Thanks.



Nope. The first meaning is 'inner state of being', _then_ 'outer state of being/dress'.


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## ThomasK

You're right! And after that the idea of 'housing'. Yes ?


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## Hakro

Before reading this thread I had never happened to think that the Finnish word _asu_ (clothes) and the verb _asua_ (to live/dwell) have the same roots. Unfortunately there is no large etymologic dictionary of the Finnish words published (and there's practically nothing on-line), so I can't give an exact answer. But I'd say: Probably yes, _asu_ and _asua_ have the same etymology.


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## ThomasK

FINNISH --- One acquaintance confirms the information: "Die beiden finnischen Ausdrücke sind tatsächlich etymologisch verwandt" and he goes on te explain:

*asu* 'das Äußere, Outfit, Look, Kleidung, äußere Form, Aufmachung, Layout'
_[the exterior, outfit, appearance, clothes, exterior form, decoration, lay-out]
_
*asua *'wohnen', _to live
_ 
Common basic meaning: 'setzen, stellen, legen, ein Zelt aufstellen' [put, put down, lay, set up a tent] (related with idg. hes- 'sein', _to be_ lat. esse, franz. être, deutsch is-t)

FRENCH - Die französischen Wörter sind abgeleitet von *lat. habêre 'halten, besitzen, sich in einer bestimmten Weise verhalten'  [hold, possess, to behave in a particular way],* daher habitus 'äußere Erscheinung, Haltung, Beschaffenheit, Befinden, Kleidung' [appearance, attitude, nature, clothes]  und habitare 'sich aufhalten, wohnen' [to stay, ...]. Key meaning, common meaning: the meaning 'festhalten > sich verhalten, Haltung, sich aufhalten' _[hold on to > to behave,n attitude, to stay]
_
INDOGERM - Aus dem Indogermanischen ist mir das Nebeneinander [the closeness, I think] von 
 - *ves- 1. 'wohnen', 2. 'kleiden'  (*old Ind. vâstu 'Stätte*, Haus', deutsch *ge-wesen* – lat. *vestis,* got. wasti 'Kleid', got. wasjan 'kleiden', engl. *wear* 'Kleider tragen'. 
   - **ves- 'wohnen'* scheint mir eine variant/ Nebenform von **hes- 'sein'* zu sein.

Just passing on. Up to you to judge...


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## ThomasK

*Moderator note: Start of merged thread.*
_
(I have checked whether I have asked this, and I don't seem to. So...)_
The likeness between the three words in the title in a Romanic language and the partial likeness between the equivalents in Germanic languages make me wonder whether there is an etymological connection between the following: 

French
_un habit_ (something to wear)/ _une habitude_ (a habit)/ _habitation_ (living)
_un costume/ une coûtume_ (^ refers to s, that is for sure)/ ? 

Dutch: 
?/ _een gewoonte_ & _wennen_ (getting used to)/ _wonen_

_German: _
_?/ sich gewöhnen/ wohnen_

English: 
?/?/ _wean_ 

I must admit: 

- a French site claims there is no link between some of them: 



> L’analogie entre « habitude » et « habiter » ne peut pas être fondée sur l’étymologie. Le premier mot vient du bas latin habitudo/-inis « aspect physique, manière d'être, état » ayant donné « habitus » ; le second du latin habitare, de habere « avoir ».


- an etymological pocket dictionary of Dutch does not suggest a link between _wonen_ and _gewoon/ wennen_

So: who can tell whether this hypothesis holds? It is at least... attractive, it seems to me, and also fairly plausible. But of course, ...


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## CapnPrep

ThomasK said:


> I must admit:
> 
> - a French site claims there is no link between some of them:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> L’analogie entre « habitude » et « habiter » ne peut pas être fondée sur  l’étymologie. Le premier mot vient du bas latin habitudo/-inis « aspect  physique, manière d'être, état » ayant donné « habitus » ; le second du  latin habitare, de habere « avoir ».
Click to expand...


In fact, all of these words (_habitus_, _habitare_, _habitatio_, _habitudo_) are derived from _habeo_.

French_ coutume_ (no circumflex) and _costume_ are also both derived from the same Latin word, _consuetudo_/*_cosetudine_.


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## ThomasK

In the meantime my Finnish correspondent warned me that I had asked a similar question, but I had not been able to trace it - and therefore asked it again, though more specific now perhaps, or no, broader (including habits, habitual actions). So let me give the reference here again - please forgive me. _(If a moderator can merge this one into the other one, that would be great !)_


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