# Same old song



## Soren Lapsus

Hi, Can anyone help me translating the sentence "Same old song" in latin? I translated it as "Idem vetus carmen" but I am not 100% sure.

Soren L.


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## exgerman

Well that translates the words, but a Roman wouldn't know what you meant by it. A Latin catchphrase that means the same is crambe repetita (re-heated cabbage).

I think _vetus_ generally follows its noun, so _idem carmen vetus_.


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## Soren Lapsus

Thank you for the answer, you caught the idea that I wanted to say, that's _crambe repetita_, the thing is that I wanted to "translate" _Same old song, _maintaining the same idea in a metaphorical way (talkin' about music).

So, do you think _idem carmen vetus_ could be understood in this way?


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## wtrmute

It wouldn't, unless you provide context beforehand to help the reader interpret the expression in such a way.  The thing about proverbs is that this information is provided beforehand through shared cultural experiences, and someone from another culture might or might not have something similar.  For example, you want to translate literally the Spanish proverb _la misma vieja canción_; in Portuguese you'd have to say _a mesma velha ladainha_, with the term for "litany" instead of "song".  It so happens that _la misma vieja letanía_ can also be used in Spanish, but this form could have fallen out of use in these centuries; and then you couldn't have translate them keeping the "same metaphor" of a prayer, like you can't with song.  And Spanish and Portuguese are certainly closer to each other than either are to Classical Latin.

Likewise, if I start talking about someone and I taking a crap through the same hole, most people would be mystified, unless they know the 16th Century Flemish proverb _de twe schieten doer een gatt_, which means "they share the same opinion" or "they are in agreement".


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## Soren Lapsus

I agree. The thing is that I don't really want to literally translate a proverb, actually I don't know if _Same Old Song _is or could be considered a proverb itself. My question was if _Idem Carmen Vetus_ could be a good translation for _Same Old Song, _not just in a semantic way (meaning of the sentence, considering it as a proverb...), but in terms of morphology and grammar too. Perhaps I should have started asking: How do you understand this sentence? (Same old song), and, could you translate it in Latin?

Thank you for your answer.


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## Copperknickers

It depends. The English term 'same old' is not the same as the Latin words 'idem vetus'. 'Same old' is an idiom in English referring to something that has been repeated so many times as to become boring and passé. 'Idem vetus carmen' on the other hand literally means something like 'a repetition of a piece of ancient music', to put it clumsily enough so that you realise how strange it would sound to a Latin speaker. It's an idiom that actually means something a little different to what it literally says. Even in French, the film 'Same Old Song' is translated 'On connait le chanson'. So if 'le meme vieux chanson' would not work in French, you can see why 'idem vetus carmen' would be 'Englatin', just as my previous suggestion is a cringeworthy example of 'Franglais'.

Do you want a literal translation meaning 'repetition of a piece of ancient music' (in which case 'carmen vetus idem' is perfectly adequate Latin for all intents and purposes) or do you want something that actually means 'the same old song'?


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## Soren Lapsus

Thanks for your explanation. I would like to find a good translation for "Same Old Song" (in the English meaning) but in latin. I want to "devise" such a new proverb for the latin expresion "Crambe Repetita". I see the difference between both (Same Old Song - something that has been repeated so many times and becomes boring - and Idem Vetus Carmen" - a repetition of an ancient song) and they don't look like too far each other in a semantic way, I think. I am trying to mix both concepts and see If I can find the best translation. So I want something that actually means Same Old Song in latin but mantaining the same metaphor, as closer as possible.


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