# Ms. = señora or señorita



## StarlaJane

I have spoken to a lot of native speakers about this one and have never gotten a straight answer. Some say that it is insulting to refer to a non-married woman as _señora_ while others insist that it is ridiculous to refer to an adult woman as _señorita_ (which is why Ms. exists in English). So, just wondering, do you refer to an 80-year-old woman as _señorita_ b/c she isn't married? Or, do you refer to her as _señora _b/c she's older than you are (assuming, that is, that she's older)?


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## Summer_rose

Hey StarlaJane,

For me the distinction between "señora" and "señorita" has much more to do with age than with marital status. Personally, I would never use "señorita" for a 80 (nor even for a 50) year old woman, no matter whether she is married or not.

Maybe the reason for that is the fact that for us "señora" is a normal sustantive as well, another way to say "woman". Look for instance at these two sentences:

--- "There was a woman talking to him" can be translated as "Había una mujer hablando con él" but also as "Había una chica..." (if she is young) or "Había una señora..." (if she is not that young)

--- "She's a lady" can be translated as "Es toda una señora" (denoting elegance)

So I think it is because of these other uses of the word "señora" that the thing is a bit more complicated in Spanish than in English.

Cheers!
Summer


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## Summer_rose

...So (in conclusion) I totally agree with those who find it "ridiculous to refer to an adult woman as _señorita". _In fact I guess here in Spain "señorita" is hardly ever used, even for young non-married woman_. 
_


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## wardo

I can't remember the last time I heard the word "señorita" in real life in Spain. I think people of your age or younger would never use it. For women looking the age of your granny you can safely use "señora" but I wouldn't risk it with women under 60 or so who call themselves "chicas" quite often.


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## StarlaJane

That's so funny b/c the native speakers whom I have spoken to were all natives of Latin America and most refer to women according to marital status rather than age. It has always been an issue for me b/c I am not a native speaker and have always found it insulting when Latin Americans (and native Engish speakers) refer to me according to my marital status rather than my age. Yet, I also want to be sensitive and respectful of a culture that is not my own.


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## k-in-sc

I think of a "señora" as just a "lady," irrespective of marital status. 
Couldn't it also be considered disrespectful to put a woman's marital status foremost when addressing her? That was the idea behind the adoption of the neutral term "Ms."


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## EviLito

"Señorita" is for young women
"Señora" is for adult women

The only problem are women around 35 years old who you call "señora" and they reply "No soy señora, soy señorita" meaning that she's not married yet but the real message is that she's not that old to be a "señora" yet. This is only a desperate try to look younger.  Anyway, this is not a real offense as you may think. If a woman says this, she will say  it in a friendly manner or with a kinky smile xD you're expected to  just say something like "oh I see"  

Women older than 40 of age (or so) are always "señoras" regardless of their marital status. They will look really desperate if they say they're still "señoritas" just because they're not married.

A young woman who is married will never ask you to call her "señora" if you call her "señorita".

"Señorita" is a very common word used here mostly when speaking to women who are costumer service representatives, receptionists and jobs like that, because they are usually young women.

I hope this helps to clarify things


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## StarlaJane

k-in-sc said:


> I think of a "señora" as just a "lady," irrespective of marital status.
> Couldn't it also be considered disrespectful to put a woman's marital status foremost when addressing her? That was the idea behind the adoption of the neutral term "Ms."


 
I consider it very insulting. _Ms._ was adopted to avoid tying in respect with marital status. However, I know a lot of very traditional people--English and Spanish speakers alike--who insist on addressing a woman according to her marital status; I guess they really don't agree with the equal rights movement...?


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## StarlaJane

EviLito said:


> "Señorita" is for young women
> "Señora" is for adult women
> 
> The only problem are women around 35 years old who you call "señora" and they reply "No soy señora, soy señorita" meaning that she's not married yet but the real message is that she's not that old to be a "señora" yet. This is only a desperate try to look younger.  Anyway, this is not a real offense as you may think. If a woman says this, she will say it in a friendly manner or with a kinky smile xD you're expected to just say something like "oh I see"
> 
> Women older than 40 of age (or so) are always "señoras" regardless of their marital status. They will look really desperate if they say they're still "señoritas" just because they're not married.
> 
> A young woman who is married will never ask you to call her "señora" if you call her "señorita".
> 
> "Señorita" is a very common word used here mostly when speaking to women who are costumer service representatives, receptionists and jobs like that, because they are usually young women.
> 
> I hope this helps to clarify things


 
My general rule has always been to address women who are older than I as "señora" while women who are youner are "señoritas." Where I live, I have pretty much had the opposite experience than the one you describe: where I live, people [in English and Spanish] refer to women according to their marital status

The issue became of cencern when I was teaching. I had my students refer to me as "señora" from the first day of class (and btw, I was in my thirties when I began teaching). Many of the adults--native Spanish and English speakers alike--knew that I wasn't married and questioned my designation as a "señora." In fact, many of them acted as if I didn't deserve to be called such b/c I wasn't married. But then, these were very traditional people. Either way, I found it very insulting. But my whole point was to teach the kids that they should refer to people according to age rather than marital status. Quite frankly, I am not sure what they learned.


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## k-in-sc

Well, what EviLito is telling us is that "señorita/señora" is more like "miss/ma'am" - based more on age than anything else. 
(BTW kinky = pervertido )
Edit: Sorry, crossed posts! 
Well, Latin societies in general have a long way to go as regards women's rights and a whole lot of other things. No offense, hispanohablantes ...


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## cbrena

Usa "señora" o "señorita" según la edad, independientemente del estado civil.

Cuando te dirijas a una mujer de más de 40 años llámala siempre "señora", aunque sepas que está soltera, y si ella te pide que la llames "señorita", posiblemente tenga alguna intención 

El problema está en cuál elegir con mujeres entre los 30 y los 40. Si las llamas señoras pueden pensar "¿parezco muy mayor?", si las llamas señoritas pueden pensar "¿está insinuando que estoy soltera?". Ante la duda: "señora". Siempre pueden interpretar que las tratas con más respeto, no que te parecen mayores.

Lo único que NO DEBES decir nunca es *"señora ¿o señorita?"*; en este caso estás forzando a que la mujer decida qué término debes usar con ella, acorde al estado civil, lo que realmente estás preguntando es si está casada o no. 
Los jovenes nunca usan esta coletilla, pero muchos hombres mayores tienen esta fea costumbre al dirigirse a mujeres de mediana edad por primera vez. Porque siguen asociando el señora o señorita al estar o no casada.

Como extranjero lo tienes más fácil, intenta usar siempre "señora" y sólo "señorita" si es realmente una chica muy joven o una adolescente, a la que incluso  puedes llamar "joven" si no es una situacion muy formal.


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## k-in-sc

Then there's what little kids call the teacher: "seño" ... Too bad it sounds so infantile! Because when you think about it, it's actually neutral as far as marital status goes.


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## K.Z.

I disagree that "women older than 40 (or so) are always a "señoras" regardless of their marital status. But I agree that referring to them as "señoritas" seems absurd. So... 

There's one simple way to get around this: dama(s). 
When in doubt of the age, marital status or a woman's preference, call her a "dama." 
In English, I think "miss" works for just about everyone because older women don't normally get offended when called "miss" while a younger or non-married woman doesn't like being called "mrs."


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## Adelaida Péndelton

wardo said:


> I can't remember the last time I heard the word  "señorita" in real life in Spain. I think people of your age or younger  would never use it. For women looking the age of your granny you can  safely use "señora" but I wouldn't risk it with women under 60 or so who  call themselves "chicas" quite often.




Estoy contigo, no se oye nada... de hecho sólo oigo llamar señoritas a  las dependientas del corte inglés, tengan la edad que tengan, y se me ponen las cejas en circunflejo!
En el resto de los casos parece que se esquiva como si mordiera


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## k-in-sc

K.Z. said:


> When in doubt of the age, marital status or a woman's preference, call her a "dama."
> In English, I think "miss" works for just about everyone because older women don't normally get offended when called "miss" while a younger or non-married woman doesn't like being called "mrs."


But we're talking about direct forms of address. So that would rule out "dama."
I'm 47 and when people call me "miss," I correct them to "ma'am." "Miss" is for young girls.




Treblinka said:


> En el resto de los casos parece que se esquiva como si mordiera


So you can't call women under 60 "señora" OR "señorita" ...?


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## cbrena

StarlaJane said:


> The issue became of cencern when I was teaching. I had my students refer to me as "señora" from the first day of class (and btw, I was in my thirties when I began teaching). Many of the adults--native Spanish and English speakers alike--knew that I wasn't married and questioned my designation as a "señora." In fact, many of them acted as if I didn't deserve to be called such b/c I wasn't married. But then, these were very traditional people. Either way, I found it very insulting. But my whole point was to teach the kids that they should refer to people according to age rather than marital status. Quite frankly, I am not sure what they learned.



En mi anterior post estaba aconsejándote cómo usar señora y señorita con las mujeres (en España), pensando que eras un hombre. Veo que eres una mujer, y que tu pregunta era para confirmar cuánta gente lo usa como tú, acorde a la edad o al puesto desempeñado, o por el contrario según el estado civil.

Totalmente de acuerdo contigo, depende de la edad de la mujer. Como puedes ver por los demás posts de  los españoles, la mayoría lo usamos así y afortunadamente cuanto más jovenes, más de acuerdo con esta forma de usar ambas términos.

Curiosamente en los colegios se ha llamado siempre a las profesoras "señoritas". Actualmente todos los niños dicen "mi seño" cuando hablan de su profesora, y siempre hablan de su profesora como "mi señorita" o "mi seño"  o "mi profe" y si es un hombre "mi profe". Nunca un alumno ni sus padres dicen la señora, tenga la edad que tenga la profesora, esté casada o esté soltera. Aquí el término *señorita* equivale totalmente a *maestra*

En un gran almacén es habitual que la gente se dirija a una dependienta como "señorita", independientemente de la edad, pero creo que cada vez se evita más el usar "señorita" y llamas la atención con un "por favor", pero raramente se le llamaría "señora". No sé el motivo, pero aquí el *señorita* equivale a *dependienta*.


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## Adelaida Péndelton

k-in-sc said:


> So you can't call women under 60 "señora" OR "señorita" ...?



Por supuesto que puedes, pero a mí me resulta incómodo que puedas decir señora/señorita" pero no "señor/señorito" existiendo ambas.
No es un tema demasiado bien resuelto y al final resulta más cómodo esquivarlo.


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## k-in-sc

Hahaha, that's something I'd like to see, men under 40 called "señorito"


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## Adelaida Péndelton

XD tendría gracia... 
-¿y usted es señor o señorito?
-Señor, por dios.
-uy, nadie lo diría con lo bien que se conserva...


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## caniho

Si se trata de llamar la atención de una mujer sin usar oiga, perdone, etc, sólo se me ocurren dos formas: señora y chica. Chica no me termina de gustar, aunque  la gente lo usa mucho. Para los hombres no es mucho mejor porque el apelativo señor prácticamente no se usa por mi zona, con lo cual nos quedan cosas como caballero, jefe, chico, chaval. De todas estas palabras, señora y chaval son las únicas sobre las que no tengo ningún reparo. En cuanto al estado civil, en general no afecta. Sólo se me ocurre el caso de algunas señoras de la alta sociedad que toman el apellido del marido y se hacen llamar "señora de".


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## K.Z.

I think there's no right-wrong answer because it depends where you live and what each person prefers to be called. What's "insulting" to one is ideal for another. Therefore, the point is to not get insulted by something that's not meant as an insult. We can't read each other's minds. If you don't like being called one way, then ask to be called another way. Problem solved.


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## k-in-sc

One option for a teacher who's a native English speaker is to tell the kids to call her Ms., no matter whether she's teaching them in English, Spanish or both, and whether she's here or in a Spanish-speaking country.


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## duvija

Este hilo quedó muy divertido. Estoy de acuerdo con cbrena, en que la palabra 'señorita' se está lexicalizando (tomando un significado claro, diferente al original). Aparentemente es cierto que se reserva para maestras/profesoras y dependientas de tiendas grandes.

¿Qué se usa al hablar por teléfono? Porque ahí no sabemos. Creo que también se usa 'señorita' si creemos que contestó una empleada de oficina, no?

No es raro que una palabra, al caer en desuso por razones varias, cambie el uso para temas menos generales y hasta muy específicos.

Por supuesto esto habría que confirmarlo con un enorme estudio estadístico hecho en todo el mundo hispano-hablante. No sabemos cuál sería el resultado de ese estudio, pero acá se puede hacer una mini-encuesta.

Uruguay: para maestras de escuela primaria  (a confirmar. Tal vez ahora se use también para profesoras de secundaria) y empleadas que atienden al público. Con profesionales, no sé (¿a la dentista, la arquitecto/a, la contadora pública? Para medicina es fácil, porque es 'doctora' y chau).

saludos


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## CarlitosCorazon

k-in-sc said:


> Hahaha, that's something I'd like to see, men under 40 called "señorito"



"Señorito" era muy usado cuando una criada se dirigía al hijo de su patrón, para diferenciarlo del "señor".


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## flljob

El problema, en México, es que se si dices señorita es porque todavía es virgen; señora es la que ya perdió la virginidad. Si a una mujer virgen la llamas señora, podría ofenderse (por muy ridículo que te pueda parecer). 
Más ofensivo es preguntarle "¿Es usted señora o señorita?", así que nunca lo hagas.

Saludos


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## k-in-sc

CarlitosCorazon said:


> "Señorito" era muy usado cuando una criada se dirigía al hijo de su patrón, para diferenciarlo del "señor".


Yeah, I've heard it used that way, but how would it sound if it weren't the maid talking ''up'' to the son of the house but some situation in public? It would be a lot different


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## cbrena

flljob said:


> El problema, en México, es que se si dices señorita es porque todavía es virgen; señora es la que ya perdió la virginidad. Si a una mujer virgen la llamas señora, podría ofenderse (por muy ridículo que te pueda parecer).
> Más ofensivo es preguntarle "¿Es usted señora o señorita?", así que nunca lo hagas.
> 
> Saludos



My goodness!

Los mejicanos lo tenéis mucho más difícil que los españoles. Aquí "¿señora o señorita?" equivale a preguntar "¿soltera o casada?", no más.


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## RaulCavazos

No he visto comentarios de mexicanos. Me sorprenden las opiniones de españoles... todos los días se aprende algo.

En México, definitivamente se usa "señorita" para las mujeres solteras (mayores de 15 años) y "señora" para las mujeres casadas, sin importar la edad... una mujer soltera de 80 años es la Señorita María Lozano... Es raro, pero algunas señoritas se ofenden si les dices señora y te hacen la aclaración con tono molesto... (aunque a veces suene a lamentación... ajajja)..

Nunca se usa "señora" para una mujer en el ámbito laboral... una cajera o secretaria aunque esté casada (incluso con avanzado embarazo) si no conoces su profesión se le dice "señorita", de lo contrario se le dice Ingeniera, Licenciada, Arquitecta, Doctora, etc... Me tocó escuchar que una Licenciada, casada y embarazada se ha ofendido (y mucho) porque le dijeron "señora"... dijo: "¡Señora!, ¿qué me ha visto vendiendo flores en el mercado o qué?".

Ejemplo: "La señorita Leticia Pérez, su madre, la señora Martha Gómez de Pérez y su tía abuela, la señorita Diana Gómez".

Respecto a los hombres, siempre es "joven" (no señorito) de los 14-15 a los 20-25 años (sin importar si es soltero o casado) y "señor" para mayores de 25 años... "El joven Juan García y su padre, el señor Pedro García...".


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## duvija

k-in-sc said:


> One option for a teacher who's a native English speaker is to tell the kids to call her Ms., no matter whether she's teaching them in English, Spanish or both, and whether she's here or in a Spanish-speaking country.


 
Why would kids in a Spanish speaking country call anyone Ms. ? 
If she's teaching English, then it's ok (my son used to call his Spanish teacher in Chicago 'señora', in all contexts. Like 'I had class with Señora Pérez'. The fact is that he knew Spanish quite well, and would normally use the necessary article 'con la señora Pérez'). 

saludos


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## StarlaJane

duvija said:


> Why would kids in a Spanish speaking country call anyone Ms. ?
> If she's teaching English, then it's ok (my son used to call his Spanish teacher in Chicago 'señora', in all contexts. Like 'I had class with Señora Pérez'. The fact is that he knew Spanish quite well, and would normally use the necessary article 'con la señora Pérez').
> 
> saludos


 
This is the problem. I was teaching Spanish and was wondering what the equivalent might be for Ms. in Spanish. However, apparently, in many Spanish speaking countries, all teachers are "señoritas" regardless of marital status or age. Of course, teaching the culture is paramount, and I am very conscientious about teaching correctly representing any and all cultures of Spanish speaking countries.

I definitely go by Ms., especially when I am teaching, b/c I don't think it is appropriate or relevant that anyone know or discuss my marital status. I still prefer that people refer to me according to a neutral title or according to my age. 

All of the posts that I have read are things that I have already heard from native Spanish speakers. In Mexico, it's actually quite insulting to refer to a woman as senora b/c it means that you might be implying something. However, that isn't exactly something that I would be discussing with any of my students.

I think that the lovely post that suggested "mi prof" or "mi seño" seems to be a happy compromise on an issue that is extremely complicated.

Thank you to everyone (muchas gracias a todos) for all of your posts; I find this topic *fascinating* and I appreciate all of your comments--keep 'em coming!


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## Spug

Hola,



flljob said:


> El problema, en México, es que se si dices señorita es porque todavía es virgen; señora es la que ya perdió la virginidad...



Es igual en el español puertorriqueño. Por ejemplo, se puede oír, típicamente hablando de una joven, "ya no es señorita", con tono de desaprobación. No sabía que también se usaba de esa forma en México.

Saludos...


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## k-in-sc

Boy, is this getting complicated!
Unfortunately, I think "seño" is just for little kids, as I said before. 
And if we can have la señora Pérez here, we can have Ms. Davis there. But I agree that it doesn't impart anything cultural to your Spanish students.


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## K.Z.

Such complications! Married, not married, virgin, not virgin, working, not working...

Usually, I've seen these terms used according to marital status, if it's known, or age, if the marital status is not known. I've never seen anyone getting offended by either one.

I went to schools where teachers, all teachers, were called "Missy." All throughout elementary school and most of high school, I didn't know what that meant. Then, one day, I realized it was a version of "Miss."


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## k-in-sc

K.Z. said:


> Usually, I've seen these terms used according to marital status, if it's known, or age, if the marital status is not known. I've never seen anyone getting offended by either one.


Would you happen to be a man, by any chance ...?


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## K.Z.

Nope. I'm a dudette! 

I've been called both, and I feel neither of them fits me. IMO, señora is too old for me (plus I'm not married, have no kids), and señorita is too young for anyone other than a young girl or teenager. So I don't like either of them, but, like I said earlier, it's not meant as an insult, so why get insulted? Luckily, I'm more likely to hear "miss" or "ma'am"--both of which sound OK to me.


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## duvija

Lucky you. When I go get a ticket, they stare at me and ask 'Senior'? That word doesn't have gender, marital status, or virginity included anywhere. Only age.


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## k-in-sc

If they're polite, they'll say ''Are you eligible for any discounts?"
Reminds me the rule, only partly in jest, that you're not supposed to make any comments to a stranger suggesting she is pregnant unless the baby is emerging from her body at that moment


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## pesquera01

K.Z. said:


> I disagree that "women older than 40 (or so) are always a "señoras" regardless of their marital status. But I agree that referring to them as "señoritas" seems absurd. So...
> 
> There's one simple way to get around this: dama(s).
> When in doubt of the age, marital status or a woman's preference, call her a "dama."
> In English, I think "miss" works for just about everyone because older women don't normally get offended when called "miss" while a younger or non-married woman doesn't like being called "mrs."



Creo que no vas a oír nunca "dama" en un nativo (al menos español) para dirigirse a una mujer, es más bien literario y sobre todo, antiguo. Pero si lo haces va a quedar muy gracioso (a lo mejor tienes éxito y todo).


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## CarlitosCorazon

... Y cuando una niña empieza a "desarrollar" las tías dicen "ya se ha vuelto una señorita"


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## JLuis

Definitivamente el español cambia de lugar en lugar. En México NO importa la edad en general uno se deja llevar por el estado civil de la persona. Si no se sabe, entonces se utiliza señora. Saludos.


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