# Swedish:  plural nouns



## emma42

Hej!

I am reading a book about the global position of the English language and came across this (to me) amazing statement about Swedish plurals:
*
According to a study...more than half of all Swedes now make plurals by adding -s, after the English model, rather than by adding -ar, -or, -er.*

I have had a look on a couple of Swedish language sites, and on Wikipedia, and there is no mention of this.

Is this true?  And, if so, does it cause any controversy?

I apologise, but I only understand about three words of Swedish.


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## Hilde

It sounds to me like a very unsolid statement. 

But, let's hear it from the sweedes first


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## emma42

Or even the "Swedes"!  Thanks Hilde.  

The study was by Magnus Ljung of Stockholm University.


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## Hilde

Maybe he says that s-plural is used alot, but I doubt that he says half the population uses s-plural in all contexts, which is what I interpret the statement above to be claiming.


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## emma42

He does say that "half the population" uses s for plurals - it's quite clear.  The statement is not open to interpretation, although the truth of it may be questionable


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## Hilde

It is open to interpretation to the degree that we do not know how often they "use it".

What does it mean that they use s for plurals? Does it mean for all words or for at least one word?

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edit: 

After a google search I find that the plural-s-phenomenon as described by Ljung applies to *english loan words*.


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## emma42

Thank you, Hilde.  I am really angry that this writer (Bill Bryson) should make such a ridiculous assertion and misrepresent Ljung's research.  Do you have a link?


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## Wilma_Sweden

Interesting! What book by Bill Bryson are you reading? Has he not stated his source citations properly, such as some bibliography at the end of the book?

In any case, as Hilde says, he's referring to English loan words in Swedish, and I do it all the time when speaking Swedish, i.e. words borrowed from English 'as is' get the English plural suffix, -s, while Swedish words of course get their normal Swedish plural suffixes.

I haven't found the exact title of the study referred to, so unless it's specified in your book, we'll await Hilde's link with great interest.

/Wilma


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## emma42

Thank you, Wilma.  The book is "Mother Tongue".  Bryson has clearly made a big mistake, as there is no reference to loan words - only to the effect of English on the syntax of other languages.

_*"What is certain is that English is the most studied and emulated language in the world, its influence so enormous that it has even affected the syntax of other languages.  According to a study by Magnus Ljung of Stockholm University, more than half of all Swedes now make plurals by adding -s after the English model, rather than by adding -ar, -or, -er in the normal Swedish way".*_

There is a select bibiliography but, unfortunately, Ljung is not cited.

That is very lazy research.  I am really glad I came on WR to check.


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## Sepia

And remember, English is not the only Germanic language building plurals with an "s". So it should not surprise anyone if it would seem natural to do so with some words in other Germanic languages. Like Danish or Swedish. Is not necessarily by English influence.


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## Ayazid

Sepia said:


> And remember, English is not the only Germanic language building plurals with an "s". So it should not surprise anyone if it would seem natural to do so with some words in other Germanic languages. Like Danish or Swedish. Is not necessarily by English influence.



Are there any Danish or Swedish words of native (non English) origin which have the plural suffix -s? I know that there are some in Dutch and German and especially in Afrikaans it's quite common. In my native language (Czech) it would be very unnatural to use an English word with its original plural ending, but since it is a Slavic tongue, I don't have idea how it would sound to a North Germanic speaker, of course


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## Wilma_Sweden

Ayazid said:


> Are there any Danish or Swedish words of native (non English) origin which have the plural suffix -s?


I can tell you for sure that there aren't any Swedish ones, and that plural suffix -s is not native to Swedish. The Swedish Language Council advise against using it, but they are not the 'Language Police', just an advisory body...

I haven't heard of any *native* plural suffix -s in German, Danish or Norwegian either, although possibly it's being used for loan words, much as in Swedish.

/Wilma


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## Hilde

Wilma_Sweden said:


> I haven't found the exact title of the study referred to, so unless it's specified in your book, we'll await Hilde's link with great interest.
> 
> /Wilma


 
I will find the source as soon as I can find the time! I just read through som different google search result yesterday. But I will find it for you




Sepia said:


> And remember, English is not the only Germanic language building plurals with an "s". So it should not surprise anyone if it would seem natural to do so with some words in other Germanic languages. Like Danish or Swedish. Is not necessarily by English influence.


 
Its definitely english influence, especially as it concerns English loan words

Anyway, if language users starts using inflections from other languages it is normally a result of very close language contact. English is in the position to influence in this way. If you find a plural-s in, lets say, Albanian I doubt it would hold such major influence on Sweedish


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## Wilma_Sweden

Hilde said:


> Anyway, if language users starts using inflections from other languages it is normally a result of very close language contact. English is in the position to influence in this way. If you find a plural-s in, lets say, Albanian I doubt it would hold such major influence on Sweedish


I agree, absolutely. Latin is of course another example where nouns have been imported, along with their Latin plural suffix, to other languages.

/Wilma


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## MetalMarianne

Ayazid said:


> Are there any Danish or Swedish words of native (non English) origin which have the plural suffix -s? I know that there are some in Dutch and German and especially in Afrikaans it's quite common. In my native language (Czech) it would be very unnatural to use an English word with its original plural ending, but since it is a Slavic tongue, I don't have idea how it would sound to a North Germanic speaker, of course



In Spanish the suffix -s is used for plural - so you may have words from Spanish origin that have hopped the borders and found a place in other European languages.


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## Ayazid

MetalMarianne said:


> In Spanish the suffix -s is used for plural - so you may have words from Spanish origin that have hopped the borders and found a place in other European languages.



Marianne, this is true but it has also nothing to do with my question concerning hypotetical *native* Swedish or Danish words with the plural suffix-s.


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## MetalMarianne

Ayazid said:


> Marianne, this is true but it has also nothing to do with my question concerning hypotetical *native* Swedish or Danish words with the plural suffix-s.




 I thought that had been answered already by Wilma and others and this topic moved on to a broader conversation about.... .... well, forget it.


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## Sepia

Ayazid said:


> Are there any Danish or Swedish words of native (non English) origin which have the plural suffix -s? I know that there are some in Dutch and German and especially in Afrikaans it's quite common. In my native language (Czech) it would be very unnatural to use an English word with its original plural ending, but since it is a Slavic tongue, I don't have idea how it would sound to a North Germanic speaker, of course


 
No, but there are some in Low German.

Remember how many Germanic languages there are around - a lot more than there are countries with Germanic languages as official language.


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## Ayazid

MetalMarianne said:


> I thought that had been answered already by Wilma and others and this topic moved on to a broader conversation about.... .... well, forget it.



Well, then it was a misunderstanding (no seas airada conmigo , acontece).

(Pssst, a broader conversation about... would terribly madden the moderators )



Sepia said:


> Remember how many Germanic languages there are around - a lot more than there are countries with Germanic languages as official language.



Yes, that's true


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