# tell friends the truth?



## Bonjules

Hola,
I always struggle with this:
Wheter it is better to be be polite and 'kind' or tell it
as you honestly see it.
Illustration: Was Friends with a couple. The wife thought of herself
as having potential of being a great actress and took lessons (in california). The teachers and pretty much everybody else (except me) were very supportive. I just didn't see it and tried - gently- to make
that clear (my idea of 'true friendship'). It caused serious hardship for a long time; the relationship probably never totally recovered. 
The 'career' never got off the ground (after investing years and tons of money). What would you have done?


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## Sallyb36

tell the truth as you see it, there really is nothing better you can do for a person.


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## jinti

I suppose it depends on whether I'm asked for my opinion.

If I am, I give it honestly (but not necessarily bluntly).  I figure if you don't want to hear the answer, you shouldn't ask the question.  However, in a case like the one you mentioned, I also generally include a disclaimer, like "but what do I know?", because really, what do I know?   

If I'm not asked, I wouldn't volunteer a potentially hurtful opinion like that.  

It also matters how close I am to the person.  The above applies to my friends, but if this was just an acquaintance, I'd be more likely to just murmur something general and escape.


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## Nunty

Tell all the truth but tell it slant,
success in circuit lies,
too bright for our infirm delight,
the truth's sublime surprise. (Emily Dickinson)

Tell the truth, but kindly. It is not always necessary to tell the whole truth. "Have I gained weight?" is a question that must sometimes be nuanced, for example. "Maybe a little" or "Have you? I hadn't noticed" could both be correct answers in different circumstances. If the person asking has been on six months of chemotherapy and was down to skin and bones, "Yes! and you look terrific!" could be the "right" answer.

"If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love, I am just making a lot of noise" (1 Cor 13, paraphrased). I may be very bright and absolutely right in my opinions; I may speak beautifully, real poetry... but my first duty as a friend is love. Sometimes love means speaking out brutally "You have a drinking problem!", sometimes it means lying outright "That dress you just spent a week's salary on? It's lovely!"

Life is nuanced, I find. Your question is an excellent one, Bonjules, but the answer is perhaps not so straightforward as one would wish.


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## la reine victoria

The great thing about true friendship is that you can tell each other just about anything, knowing you won't be judged.

My friends often ask me for advice on quite difficult matters.  I say exactly what I feel, then it's up to them to decide whether or not to take the advice.

One of my friends is in a very difficult family situation.  I often have to say quite harsh things to her to try and persuade her to escape from it.  I tell her I am being deliberately hard on her because "a soft approach" would have no effect.  She says, "I know, and I agree with you."  Sadly, she ignores my advice and the situation continues.  All she needs to do is say two words, "No more!" but she can't bring herself to say them.

Sometimes a friend will ask if a certain outfit suits her.  This has to be handled carefully but I always tell the truth.  I expect my friends to be equally honest with me.

Friends are very precious - beware of false ones. 





LRV


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## .   1

G'day sis,
How wonderful to have The Good Book quoted in a positive manner.  It does seem to contain more than a fair share of good advice on how to live.

A reading of Emily Dickinson's work gives me the impression that she received very little positive reinforcement and this has coloured her views.  I agree with her on this point and I do think that a good friend would be very careful about saying that a friend would not be successful as an actor.
I have seen many successful actors with less talent than a tree and many highly talented actors waiting on tables.

.,,


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## Daddyo

Once upon a time I read somewhere that "the truth without love leads ever downward into cynicism."

In this particular case, maybe you were trying to be a good friend to a person that did not consider the friendship to be as significant for her as it was for you. You say you tried to be sensitive and tactful. You did your part, I think. Unfortunate that she did not appreciate it.


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## badgrammar

Beautiful words all around, bravo!

And although I do recommend the art of not misguiding friends, I also believe in the art of letting others keep their dreams...  And of recognizing that perhaps where we do not see someone's qualities, someone else does.

Support your friend, regardless, letting her know that whether or not she forges her way as an actress, you are there.  What else, honestly, can you do?  Tell her she's no good?  "Give it up, Mabel, you're a horrible actress!"? You would be a cad to do that, and maybe quite wrong.  Dplomacy and kindness are fine.  If she does not succeed, do you need to tell her "I told you so"?  What will it hurt to let her believe in her potential?

Signed, 

a minor, but sometimes working, actress...


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## Heba

I would not tell my best friend the truth about her hairdo or dress this would lead to a disaster as we have completely different tastes in fashion.

In a situation like yours, I would tell her my opinion honestly. In things that have to do with my friend's future, I tell the truth as I see it.
Sometimes, my best friend would call me and ask me to give her my personal opinion about something that has to do with her career or relationships(and I feel in her tone that she wants me to endorse her opinion). If my opinion is contrary to hers, I simply deliver it without thinking about wether this would upset her or not. I just add something like ''I would not accept for you what I do not accept for myself''
As Jinti said, ''if you don't want to hear the answer, you shouldn't ask the question''


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## QUIJOTE

I would probably do the same, but the question is, were you there to catch the fall? I mean, is easy enough to tell a friend in all honesty that their dreams are too high, but when they realise you were right, did you tell her? I am still here with you and I still think you are the greatest actress no matter what anybody else think.


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## Hockey13

badgrammar said:


> Beautiful words all around, bravo!
> 
> And although I do recommend the art of not misguiding friends, I also believe in the art of letting others keep their dreams... And of recognizing that perhaps where we do not see someone's qualities, someone else does.
> 
> Support your friend, regardless, letting her know that whether or not she forges her way as an actress, you are there. What else, honestly, can you do? Tell her she's no good? "Give it up, Mabel, you're a horrible actress!"? You would be a cad to do that, and maybe quite wrong. Dplomacy and kindness are fine. If she does not succeed, do you need to tell her "I told you so"? What will it hurt to let her believe in her potential?
> 
> Signed,
> 
> a minor, but sometimes working, actress...


 
Although I've never met a Mabel under the age of 70, very interesting philosophy.


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## badgrammar

And I ask, what do you do when you told your friend she would not succeed, and in fact, she does?  Do we presume to know the future? Are our tastes the defining factor in whether others will be appreciated by the world at large?   Who died and left us in charge of telling folks who can be what, who can do what with their lives?  Are our own opinions and judgements not only valid, but also free from any persoanl agenda and jealousies?  Do you believe that just because _you_ don't think it's possible, that no one else will?

Do you think that friends and family of some now very successful people once scoffed at their dreams and hopes?  I do.


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## Lavinia.dNP

I think that we should always tell the truth, in a kind way, but clearly.

If a friend asks you "do you think that he really loves me?" you cannot say "yes" even if you think "no". The answer I would give is : "I cannot really know, I'm not in his brain, but from my point of view, it looks like he doesn't really care that much, but you're the best person to judge".

in the case of the actress, I would have said the truth : "I don't know if you can really become famous, but this musn't stop you from taking acting lessons for your own pleasure. You know, the teacher is not reliable, he'll say that we are all great so that we continue paying his lessons. Why don't you try and ask some expert's opinion?"

I'm taking singing lessons, and my boyfriend told me honestly that my voice is not out of tune, but it's not even a great voice.
And even before he told me, I knew perfectly that even with a thousand singing lessons I'd never be able to sing in a group, because my voice is too ordinary.
I just take lessons for my own pleasure, and to be able to sing at the best of my ability.

I really hate those people who always tell you that you are right, that you look great in that dress, etc... I want to hear the truth, even if it hurts.

Although I know that many people always want to hear what they expect you to tell them, not your real opinion, but I'm not one of those.

I'm the one who 'll tell you "I'm sorry, but this dress you spent so much money on, doesn't really enhance your physique, you should try something different".


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## Lavinia.dNP

Another difficult case in telling the truth to a friend : 
If two of your best friends were dating and you found out that one of them is cheating on the other, would you tell the other?

I think that I wouldn't really know what to do.

Any ideas?


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## curly

I think you should always say the things that wil lead to a better outcome, not hurt feelings or tragic events,

If someone has spinach in their teeth and asks you how they look, you would point out the spinach, you wouldn't say i hate that dress, it's because we all assume, more or less, that spinach in teeth is not a good look, but the dress is subjective.

I dislike when people flaunt the fact that the always tell "the truth" when in fact they simply say their opinions bluntly and without regard for the consequences.

Fact.


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## badgrammar

Good point, Curly.  There is a different between pointing out a fact "Your dress is torn" and an opinion "Your dress is unnattractive".  And I wonder why we feel our straight-from-the-heart truthisms will always have a"do-good" effect?   

And there is a big difference between giving an opinion when asked, and offering up an unsollicited judgement or telling someone something negative when there is nothing they can do to change the situation (ex: You're out with a friend who gotten all dressed up and feels good about herself, then you tell her the dress looks awful.  She can't do anything about it, and it might make her feel bad for the whole evening).

But please, do be kind, tell people about the spinach in their teeth, undone zippers, salad dressing on their cheek, a hole in their pants, etc...  It is the most respectful thing to do.


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## maxiogee

Of course friends should tell the truth - but there is a burden on the other side of the friendship also.
I have brought up my son not to ask questions if he thinks he might not want to hear the answers.

We owe it to our friends not to require them to give us answers which we might not be prepared to hear.


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## .   1

Lavinia.dNP said:


> Another difficult case in telling the truth to a friend :
> If two of your best friends were dating and you found out that one of them is cheating on the other, would you tell the other?
> 
> I think that I wouldn't really know what to do.
> 
> Any ideas?


Stay well away from it.  Run and hide your head in the sand and say nothing.  
At the moment you have two best friends but the nanosecond that you let the cat out of the bag you will have two fiercely ex friends who will never exchange a polite greeting with you ever again.
The friend doing the cheating will feel betrayed by you.  You will be seen to have broken a confidence and that friend will wipe you like a snotty rag.
The friend who is being cheated on will be humiliated by your knowledge of their intimate life.  This is an area where egos rise up and bight the nearest target and you will be putting yourself at the focal point of the most traumatic of events.
Slap a smile on your dial and play dumb.

.,,


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## Bonjules

Nun-Translator said:


> Tell the truth, but kindly. It is not always necessary to tell the whole truth. "Have I gained weight?" is a question that must sometimes be nuanced, for example. "Maybe a little" or "Have you? I hadn't noticed" could both be correct answers in different circumstances. If the person asking has been on six months of chemotherapy and was down to skin and bones, "Yes! and you look terrific!" could be the "right" answer.
> 
> "If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels and have not love, I am just making a lot of noise" (1 Cor 13, paraphrased). I may be very bright and absolutely right in my opinions; I may speak beautifully, real poetry... but my first duty as a friend is love. Sometimes love means speaking out brutally "You have a drinking problem!", sometimes it means lying outright "That dress you just spent a week's salary on? It's lovely!


 
Thank you, sister and all others who have contributed so thoughtfully
and often humanely.
I agree that the action needs to be tailored to the situation -certainlly
in a physical or emotional emergency (Chemo case) you would not want to
be 'brutally honest'; with the last situation (the dress) I would have a hard time 'lying outright' - just because it is a 'mundane' issue; nonetheless an 'I-message' ('you know, this type of dress is just not my style...) is always helpful.
With issues of wider ranging importance, like the original case, it might depend in the end on how you see your role in the relationship.
I don't think of whether you are 'asked' is ultimately all that important either -to take the case to the extreme, you would certainly always warn a blind person stepping towards a precipice. So do you see youself as 'having a duty'?
In the original case I was not asked formally, but the issue was often talked avbout.
It was a bit of a ' encouragement frenzy' in the sense that everybody was expected to be supportive, a lot of pressure, even though to the uninvolved observer it was fairly clear that she just didn't have that stage presence or a certain 'magnetism' performing.
When there is that collective pressure, I tend to 'rebel'. It reminds me of that great, wise Fairy Tale 'The Emperors new clothes' which made a big impression on me.


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## Nunty

Bonjules said:


> [...]with the last situation (the dress) I would have a hard time 'lying outright' - just because it is a 'mundane' issue; nonetheless an 'I-message' ('you know, this type of dress is just not my style...) is always helpful.



I'd like to expand on the dress question. I said that if a friend had just spent a week's salary on a dress that I would always find a way to say it was lovely. In my head was also the idea that she could not return it for exchange or refund. Thus, I have no problem saying it's a lovely dress (after all, it was lovely to _her_ or she wouldn't have spent so much money on it) rather than saying she just flushed a week's salary down the toilet. (Of course, if she had a problem with compulsive spending, I would deal with it differently.)

Another example. My brother has been a New York Times best-selling author, but for some reason his last couple of manuscripts have not been purchased by any publisher at all. He recently sent me an essay and asked, "What do you think of it?" 

This is very delicate. On the one hand, I know that he respects my opinion as an informed reader and, maybe more importantly, as an experienced editor. On the other hand, he is going through a very tough patch right now, particularly around his writing, and I don't want to make it harder on him. So I sandwiched my honest and specific criticism between honest and specific compliments.

This "sandwiching" technique is very useful. It requires practice, but is a wonderful way to be true to oneself, to one's friend and to the demands of love. You simply find two true positive statements. Open with one of them, then make your negative statement as briefly and undramatically as possible, but also in very specific terms, then close with another positive statement.

A variation of the technique can be found in the book _The Two-Minute Manager_ (or is it "three-minute"?) and it is widely applicable.


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## Sallyb36

maxiogee said:


> Of course friends should tell the truth - but there is a burden on the other side of the friendship also.
> I have brought up my son not to ask questions if he thinks he might not want to hear the answers.
> 
> We owe it to our friends not to require them to give us answers which we might not be prepared to hear.




Well said Maxiogee, I know my friends well enough to know what they would probably say in any given situation, so if I'm doing something I think they may not agree with I don't ask for their advice.  If I do I expect them to be brutally honest, after all that's one of the reasons their my friends.


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## Etcetera

My friends and me have rather different tastes. If they like something I don't like, I would never tell them my opinion (unless it really hurts my feelings). But if they insist on my telling them my opinion - OK, I'll do it. But I'll do my best to put it as mildly as I can. 
If a friend asks me if she has gained weight... hmm, frankly speaking, I don't think I'll be able to answer this question, because I don't payany attention to such matters. 
I really like Nun-Translator's post #20. "Sandwiching" technique is one of my favourites.


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## Lavinia.dNP

. said:


> Stay well away from it. Run and hide your head in the sand and say nothing.
> At the moment you have two best friends but the nanosecond that you let the cat out of the bag you will have two fiercely ex friends who will never exchange a polite greeting with you ever again.
> The friend doing the cheating will feel betrayed by you. You will be seen to have broken a confidence and that friend will wipe you like a snotty rag.
> The friend who is being cheated on will be humiliated by your knowledge of their intimate life. This is an area where egos rise up and bight the nearest target and you will be putting yourself at the focal point of the most traumatic of events.
> Slap a smile on your dial and play dumb.
> 
> .,,


 
I know, and probably that's what I would do, but it would be very embarassing to me, because if my boyfriend cheated on me, I'd want to be told, therefore playing dumb would be a violence against myself and my principles.
And there's another risk : what happens if the friend who is being cheated on finds out that you knew everything and didn't tell him/her? that would feel like a betrayal too


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## Sallyb36

Lavinia.dNP said:


> Another difficult case in telling the truth to a friend :
> If two of your best friends were dating and you found out that one of them is cheating on the other, would you tell the other?
> 
> I think that I wouldn't really know what to do.
> 
> Any ideas?



I would tell the partner that is cheating that I knew, and give them a chance to come clean with my other friend, and if they didn't tell them I would.


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## .   1

Lavinia.dNP said:


> I know, and probably that's what I would do, but it would be very embarassing to me, because if my boyfriend cheated on me, I'd want to be told, therefore playing dumb would be a violence against myself and my principles.
> And there's another risk : what happens if the friend who is being cheated on finds out that you knew everything and didn't tell him/her? that would feel like a betrayal too


The only way that your friend could ever establish that you knew what was going on would be if you told someone else. Gossip has a habit of turning around and bighting you on the nose.

.,,


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## Bonjules

Nun-Translator said:


> I'd like to expand on the dress question. I said that if a friend had just spent a week's salary on a dress that I would always find a way to say it was lovely. In my head was also the idea that she could not return it for exchange or refund. Thus, I have no problem saying it's a lovely dress (after all, it was lovely to _her_ or she wouldn't have spent so much money on it) {.........................}
> 
> This "sandwiching" technique is very useful. It requires practice, but is a wonderful way to be true to oneself, to one's friend and to the demands of love. You simply find two true positive statements. Open with one of them, then make your negative statement as briefly and undramatically as possible, but also in very specific terms, then close with another positive statement.
> .


I can only second the last statement! Mixing criticism with praise is some
thing many of us do whenever possible, because it tells the person we
care about them, that we are not trying to critcize in order to hurt.

With not being entirely truthful in order not to 'hurt one's feelings' in
matters of appearance or othere such less 'earthshaking ' issues I have
a bigger problem. I'm afraid we live in a culture where pretending and make-believe is so wide-spread that it has almost become second nature.
Much of that is fuelled by advertising of course, and children especially
are exposed to this all the time. It has become so 'natural' and accepted
to be part of it that mothers will stand in line to get their child a spot
in it 'to start their carreers'. Politicians are expected to lie already. Who
can trust anybody any more about anything they say?
So, basically, unless there is a very good reason not to, I think we must
try to uphold the basic prohibition against not telling the truth ( and I am
not suggesting in any way that Sister Claire wants to open the floodgates
- the problem is more how do we close them again)
I was always impressed with that ancient people (forget if it was the Spartans, ancient Persians or such) who insisted on teaching their young (men -sorry)
3 things: To ride ahorse, shoot the bow and tell the truth.


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## Maja

Nun-Translator said:


> This "sandwiching" technique is very useful. It requires practice, but is a wonderful way to be true to oneself, to one's friend and to the demands of love. You simply find two true positive statements. Open with one of them, then make your negative statement as briefly and undramatically as possible, but also in very specific terms, then close with another positive statement.


I like it! 

Tricky! My answer is YES, but it depends on situation.  
As for boyfriend/husband-cheating situation, if I am absolutely certain (meaning I saw him with my own eyes snagging another girl), I would tell my friend, for sure, and probably approach him to say hi (with my fist meeting his face ). 
In a situation of gaining wait, I'll probably say  "maybe a little, but it is not too bad".
When it comes to taste (dressing etc.), I am really peculiar about that so I only compliment items I like. If asked about smt I don't like, I would probably say: " It is so you, but you know me, I don't care for that color/style etc."

And there are situations in which smo asks: "Isn't it beautiful?", when it is clear she/he only needs a confirmation. If I don't like it, I would just say "yeah" (not even a clear "yes") without any further comments.


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## Alxmrphi

Friends don't always need to know the truth, some people just appear to associate "friends" with "truth" when I don't see a necessary connection at all.


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## serg79

I think if we were all 100% truthful 100% of the time we would have no friends to begin with!
(which could be a possible solution to the dilemma, lol).


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## Alxmrphi

That's a fantastic point, hahaha. Totally agree with you, some privacy keeps me sane, what about if you had to give your TRUE opinion on what they say/wear/dress?!!??


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## serg79

Alex_Murphy said:


> That's a fantastic point, hahaha. Totally agree with you, some privacy keeps me sane, what about if you had to give your TRUE opinion on what they say/wear/dress?!!??


(Thanks )

Well, I think that is the classic example of when we don't tell the whole truth
(otherwise known as "lying").

A friend asks you how they look (usually before going out somewhere) and you think they look "not bad/pretty good" but nothing that is exactly going to drive someone from the opposite (or same) sex crazy with desire, so you reply with something like "Hey, you look really great!", when really the pure-truth goblin in your head wants you to spurt out something about how you think their shoes look a bit tacky and how you can see wrinkles prematurely developing under their eyes and stuff like that...


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## Nunty

I think that one of the points some people are making (and I am one of them) is that truth is not always binary. In some cases there are only two choices: The picture is either framed or it is not. It is either daytime or night. I am either male or female.

But in other cases, truth is much more complex (in the sense meaning "opposite of simplex"):
* Is this a pretty dress?* Well, to you it is, but to me it is not.
* Is the music too loud?* Ditto.

Then there are the cases involving order of importance or conflicting values:
* "Am I bothering you?"* I am working on a tricky article and almost have my brain wrapped  around a way to word a particularly closely argued point, and someone steps into my office. "Are you busy? Am I bothering you?" The simple, clear "truthful" answer is "Yes!" But which is more important: my article or this person's need to speak to me? Which is more important: to continue my work without interuption or to welcome this person with a smile, "Well, I have a second. What's up?" This can always be followed by "Ah, well look. I can't do that/discuss that/whatever right now. Let's find a time when we're both free." I've lost no more than one minute (less time than it would take to stand up, stretch, go the window, go to the bookcase, pull down a dictionary, sit down again...) and the person leaves my office having had a pleasant, or at least neutral, encounter.

This can go the other way, too. Going back to the dress example, in post 20 of this thread I said...





> that if a friend had just spent a week's salary on a dress that I would always find a way to say it was lovely. In my head was also the idea that she could not return it for exchange or refund. Thus, I have no problem saying it's a lovely dress (after all, it was lovely to _her_ or she wouldn't have spent so much money on it) rather than saying she just flushed a week's salary down the toilet. (Of course, if she had a problem with compulsive spending, I would deal with it differently.)


Please note carefully the sentence in parentheses. The duties of love, of recognizing the personhood of the other, of truth _can_ mean being brutal. As I said, if this lady is a compulsive spender, spends money as a way to avoid her feelings or due to anxiety, I would not even answer the question directly. I would probably say, "You spent all that money on a dress? You're doing it again. You have a problem; get help!"

By the same token when my anorexic friend (this is true-life) is depressed and phones me, saying things that have been associated with her nearly deadly fasting in the past, I ask her what she ate today and in what quantity, and I do not accept the answer "Something. Enough."

All this is not to endorse lying. (Bonjules, I know you are not accusing me of that.) But I maintain that truth is not always an either-or situation and that our responsiblities to love are greater than our responsiblities to truth.


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## mytwolangs

Bonjules said:


> Hola,
> IThe wife thought of herself
> as having potential of being a great actress and took lessons (in california). The teachers and pretty much everybody else (except me) were very supportive. I just didn't see it and tried - gently- to make
> that clear (my idea of 'true friendship'). It caused serious hardship for a long time; the relationship probably never totally recovered.
> The 'career' never got off the ground (after investing years and tons of money). What would you have done?


 
Stand there and laugh and point and say "I was right and you were wrong!" Dance around and taunt her. 

At some point when she was trying to learn to act, you should have said - "Don't quit your day job".


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## Nunty

mytwolangs said:


> At some point when she was trying to learn to act, you should have said - "Don't quit your day job".


And if she was throwing away her life savings or depriving her aged mother of medical care or sleeping with directors to get parts or being in some other way blatantly self-destructive, this would have fallen under my category of "tough love" in the post just above mytwolangs'.

I reserve comment on the pointing-and-taunting, however.


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## Bonjules

Hello once more,

It appears that we have come around to the basic question again,
where any good conversation should end up, that is the nature of
'true love' and of 'true truth'.
Love, as Sister Claire has has shown in away that does honor to her name comes is many forms and we need to be mindful of and sensitive to
every situation.
With 'truth' things don't seem to be easier. Of course it is subjective, I am trying to say that much in my sig. Memory, which always was thought of
as an haven of truth, turns out in recent research to be mostly a social
construct, the psychologists tell us. Even more disturbing, we can very 
easily adjust 'the truth'; Social psycholgy has shown in many experiments
that actions that are at odds with supposedly previously held attitudes
and beliefs can sway them very easily. In other words, if you are
lucky enough to land a job as spokesman of a large Chemistry conglomerate that you know causes major damage to the environment
and the people working there, you (most of us) have very little 
problem adapting to the situation ad actually end up believing
in a short time that everybody is doing their best...
Given all that, should we resign and conclude since we never can be sure
of the 'ultimate truth' it is not worth taking the risk of offending anyone?
I think not. On the contrary, we need to accept and confront
our weakness in this regard and question all our motivations and perceptions even more rigorously.


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## badgrammar

This has been a very good discussion all around...  Thank you all!


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