# pain in the ass



## lobelia.ophrys

Hello everybody,

I wondered if it's correct to use "pain in the ass" in the following sentence.

The context is an old woman, very grumpy who hates everything and who is bothered by everybody and everything... you know, the very cantankerous type who uses quite a lot of coarse words. She sits in her room and, while watching TV, she can hear her neighbors singing for a birthday party and, of course, it annoys her deeply and the volume of her TV cannot even drown out the sound of clapping and the songs of her neighbors. So she says to herself:

"What a bunch of *pains in the ass*. I cannot even watch TV in peace and quiet here". 

Thank you in advance!


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## bennymix

That is peculiar.   "My noisy neighbors are a pain in the ass!"


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## lobelia.ophrys

bennymix said:


> That is peculiar.   "My noisy neighbors are a pain in the ass!"



Thank you for your reply. But "my noisy neighbors" is way too polite for my character... especially is she speaks to herlsef ^_^


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## lobelia.ophrys

bennymix said:


> That is peculiar.   "My noisy neighbors are a pain in the ass!"



What about "What a bunch of *shit disturbers*" ?


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## bennymix

I was making a point about 'pain in the ass'.   If you want "Those shit-throwing monkeys are a pain in the ass", fine.


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## You little ripper!

I don't think ''shit disturbers/stirrers' works there.

'Pains in the ass' is quite common here. There are a reasonable amount of Google hits for "bunch of pains in the ass".


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## suzi br

Really I wouldn't use it. 

I think the question over where to put the plural in that sort of phrase is awkward. 
Pains in the ass? doesn't seem quite enough plural in the sentence. 

Pain in the asses? sound wrong

Pains in the asses? Nope. 

This makes me opt for different words for a group of people and keep "pain in the ass" for a single person or event.


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## lobelia.ophrys

Thank you very much for your reply. I'm a bit confused since "You little ripper!" says that "shit disturbers" can't work in my sentence and that painS in the ass is common while Suzi br says the opposite. 

What to do? hehe


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## You little ripper!

suzi br said:


> Really I wouldn't use it.
> 
> I think the question over where to put the plural in that sort of phrase is awkward.
> Pains in the ass? doesn't seem quite enough plural in the sentence.
> 
> Pain in the asses? sound wrong
> 
> Pains in the asses? Nope.
> 
> This makes me opt for different words for a group of people and keep "pain in the ass" for a single person or event.


I don't think the woman described in the OP is really concerned about her grammar, though. She sounds like a right pain in the arse/ass herself!


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## lobelia.ophrys

You little ripper! said:


> I don't think the woman described in the OP is really concerned about her grammar, though. She sounds like a right pain in the arse/ass herself!



My character IS a real one, that's true. But the grammar is important to me since it's for a script ;-)


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> My character IS a real one, that's true. But the grammar is important to me since it's for a script ;-)


It might be for a script, acid...burn, but people don't always use correct grammar in real life. Is it a translation from a French script?


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## lobelia.ophrys

You little ripper! said:


> It might be for a script, acid...burn, but people don't always use correct grammar in real life. Is it a translation from a French script?



Well, that's true.

Nope, it's not a translation from a French script... but let's say I translate the ideas from French to English in my head ;-) But what you say regarding grammar is indeed true since my character is based on a real person and trust me, that woman cannot speak properly. But I thought that if I used wrong grammar in a script, people would think that I cannot write correctly before thinking it's my character who speaks this way


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## DonnyB

I agree with suzi: I think it sounds odd in the plural and I only ever use it in the singular.  If you pause for a minute to think about its literal meaning, I don't think you actually _need_ a plural of it.  

How about "Just listen to that _xxx (=random expletive)_ pair next door!  What a total pain in the ass they're being!!"


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## suzi br

You little ripper! said:


> I don't think the woman described in the OP is really concerned about her grammar, though. She sounds like a right pain in the arse/ass herself!



She might not be bothering about grammar, I'll agree. But readers are, even when reading the voices of nasty characters. I'm just saying I'd avoid it, even in this context. Nothing more or less, really.


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> Well, that's true.
> 
> Nope, it's not a translation from a French script... but let's say I translate the ideas from French to English in my head ;-) But what you say regarding grammar is indeed true since my character is based on a real person and trust me, that woman cannot speak properly. But I thought that if I used wrong grammar in a script, people would think that I cannot write correctly before thinking it's my character who speaks this way


Have you read many online scripts from TV and movies? They're full of grammar 'mistakes'. The way the person speaks needs to reflect the character, not an English grammar textbook. However, if you don't feel comfortable with it you might need to use another expression that is both grammatical and reflects the personality of the woman concerned.


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## suzi br

acid...burn said:


> But I thought that if I used wrong grammar in a script, people would think that I cannot write correctly before thinking it's my character who speaks this way



You certainly can have non-SE in the voices of your characters. Writers usually pick one or two quirks that they use repeatedly usually to show an accent or giving "wrong" verb endings to common verbs.

This thing you are suggesting doesn't crop up very often so, to me, it's not a good choice. But it's just an opinion.


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## velisarius

suzi br said:


> You certainly can have *non-SE *in the voices of your characters.


 *SE*= "standard English" - it took me a few minutes but I got there.


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> Nope, it's not a translation from a French script... but let's say I translate the ideas from French to English in my head


What does the woman say in French? Since French isn't allowed here, give us a literal translation in English and we'll try to come up with something better.


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## lobelia.ophrys

You little ripper! said:


> What does the woman say in French? Since French isn't allowed here, give us a literal translation in English and we'll try to come up with something better.



She said what I said at first: "what a bunch of .... (mean word from a mean person to describe people that irritate her so so much!) ^_^


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## lobelia.ophrys

suzi br said:


> She might not be bothering about grammar, I'll agree. But readers are, even when reading the voices of nasty characters. I'm just saying I'd avoid it, even in this context. Nothing more or less, really.



That's what I thought... indeed.


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## 8thnote

acid...burn said:


> She said what I said at first: "what a bunch of .... (mean word from a mean person to describe people that irritate her so so much!) ^_^



Submitted for your approval:

"What a bunch of annoying assholes!!!!"


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> She said what I said at first: "what a bunch of .... (mean word from a mean person to describe people that irritate her so so much!) ^_^


What was the mean word that sprang to mind?


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## lobelia.ophrys

After thinking about it, I come to realize that any sort of insult might work here instead of "pain in the ass". And my thought is confirmed by 8thnote I think ^_^


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## velisarius

If the woman is American, "pain in the ass" or "assholes" might work.

If she's British... well... being a grumpy old Englishwoman myself, I could use any number of expressions but probably not either of those - and if I did it would be "arse" rather than "ass".

(My donkey is pain-free.)


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## lobelia.ophrys

velisarius said:


> If the woman is American, "pain in the ass" or "assholes".
> 
> If she's British... well... being a grumpy old Englishwoman myself, I could use any number of expressions but probably not either of those - and if I did it would be "arse" rather than "ass".
> 
> (My donkey is pain-free.)



Haha, I don't think it's possible to be as grumpy and cantankerous than my character is (yet, she's based on a real person... but being so mean, I think it's not possible hehe). 

So British people don't use "assholes"? 

Actually, I don't know if she's British or American (the decision will be taken when the film will be made, hehe) so I'm quite looking for an "expression" that might work in the UK and USA.


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## velisarius

In BE an "ass" is a donkey. I'm not sure that an old woman would use this particular term in BE, even if she is foul-mouthed.


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> After thinking about it, I come to realize that any sort of insult might work here instead of "pain in the ass". And my thought is confirmed by 8thnote I think ^_^


The only thing you might need to consider is whether the old woman is likely to use moderately or extremely vulgar language. "Pain in the ass' is probably not as vulgar as 'bunch of assholes'.


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## lobelia.ophrys

velisarius said:


> In BE an "ass" is a donkey. I'm not sure that an old woman would use this particular term in BE, even if she is foul-mouthed.



hahaha, she's not far of being foul-mouthed in fact ;-)


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## PaulQ

acid...burn said:


> "What a bunch of *pains in the ass*.


That is the correct plural: compare
"There is a pain in my arse."
"There are pains in my arse."

Do people ever use the plural? I suppose one or two people must do.
Is it common? I wouldn't think so.
Would it be understood? Yes
Would it sound unnatural - probably not.


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## lobelia.ophrys

You little ripper! said:


> The only thing you might need to consider is whether the old woman is likely to use moderately or extremely vulgar language. "Pain in the ass' is probably not as vulgar as 'bunch of assholes'.



Well, if I think of how the REAL person that inspired my character... I'd say very vulgar language without hesitation. Everything that is mean, vulgar, racist etc comes out of her mouth (and THAT is a pain in the ass ;-) )


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## lobelia.ophrys

PaulQ said:


> That is the correct plural: compare
> "There is a pain in my arse."
> "There are pains in my arse."
> 
> Do people ever use the plural? I suppose one or two people must do.
> Is it common? I wouldn't think so.
> Would it be understood? Yes
> Would it sound unnatural - probably not.



That answers precisely to my questions 

Thank you very much!


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## PaulQ

I now see:





You little ripper! said:


> 'Pains in the ass' is quite common here. There are a reasonable amount of Google hits for "bunch of pains in the ass".


Your fictitious character has obviously been influenced by an Australian English speaker.


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## lobelia.ophrys

PaulQ said:


> I now see:Your fictitious character has obviously been influenced by an Australian English speaker.



Not so fictitious... well, not fictitious at all! That's funny how English can be sooo different in Australia, UK and USA... it's going to drive me mad ;-)


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## suzi br

What nationality is your character?


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## lobelia.ophrys

suzi br said:


> What nationality is your character?



As I said before, I don't know if she's British or American (the decision will be taken when the film will be made, hehe) so I'm quite looking for an "expression" that might work in the UK and USA.


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## suzi br

I see - Don't use ass then - we don't say that in BE.


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## lobelia.ophrys

suzi br said:


> I see - Don't use ass then - we don't say that in BE.



All right, I'll avoid using that then.

What about "fuckwit"? (I just discovered that word...)


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> What about "fuckwit"? (I just discovered that word...)


I think both Brits and Americans use that word. We certainly do here.

_What a bunch of fuckwits! I can't even watch TV in peace here!_


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## lobelia.ophrys

You little ripper! said:


> I think both Brits and Americans use that word. We certainly do here.



Wonderful then! I never heard it before but it sounds quite funny to my ears and perfect for my foul-mouthed character :-D


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## Miss Julie

I rarely (practically never) hear "fuckwit" from an American English speaker.


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## lobelia.ophrys

That's what I said... English is going to drive me mad


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## Miss Julie

acid...burn said:


> That's what I said... English is going to drive me mad



Yes, it will...but hang in there! You're doing great.


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## lobelia.ophrys

Miss Julie said:


> Yes, it will...but hang in there! You're doing great.



That's lovely. 

Well, I think it's worse for people learning French...! It's fine... I just think people will understand whatever word I'll use in English in the UK, USA and Australia, hehe.


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## suzi br

Fuckwits gets my vote. Punchier and grumpier.


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## lobelia.ophrys

suzi br said:


> Fuckwits gets my vote. Punchier and grumpier.



Wonderful! Thank you very much!


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## You little ripper!

acid...burn said:


> Wonderful! Thank you very much!


That means you'll probably have to make her English, or dare I say it, Australian?!!!


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## fiercediva

I would have picked "noisy bastards" as a more universal phrase, but "fuckwit" does have a certain Scorsesian charm!


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## ewie

A friend of mine*, who is blessed with noisy neighbours, would say  _I wish those scum-sucking cunts would shut the fuck up!_


*Not me, obviously.


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## Thomas Tompion

You perhaps should consider 'What a bunch of wankers!', which may not be rude enough to you, though it's a common derisive appellation in British English, south of Lancashire.


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## ewie

Ah but I think the bulk of Americanpersons tend not to know what a _wanker_ is or how insulting it is, Mr T


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## Miss Julie

ewie said:


> Ah but I think the bulk of Americanpersons tend not to know what a _wanker_ is or how insulting it is, Mr T



I believe _jag-off_ is the American equivalent.


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## You little ripper!

ewie said:


> A friend of mine*, who is blessed with noisy neighbours, would say _I wish those scum-sucking cunts would shut the fuck up!_


I like that. 



ewie said:


> *Not me, obviously.


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## Thomas Tompion

ewie said:


> Ah but I think the bulk of Americanpersons tend not to know what a _wanker_ is or how insulting it is, Mr T


You're probably right.  This is much more your world than mine, Mr E.  I bow to your specialist knowledge.


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