# Urdu and Hindi: to pretend



## marrish

Hi,

I  was reading an interview with the parents of the policeman shot in Paris in English about men "pretending to be Muslims". Surprisingly for myself I couldn't think readily of a way to say it in Urdu or Hindi. Any help would be appreciated.


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## HZKhan

مسلمان ہونے کا ادعا/دعویٰ/تظاہر/دکھاوا کرنا۔۔۔۔
​


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## littlepond

"ve jo xud ko musalmaan hone kaa daavaa bharte/karte the"


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## Qureshpor

​مسلمانی محض اِک بہانہ


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## Cilquiestsuens

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> I  was reading an interview with the parents of the policeman shot in Paris in English about men "pretending to be Muslims". Surprisingly for myself I couldn't think readily of a way to say it in Urdu or Hindi. Any help would be appreciated.



There is an article in Urdu here and in Hindi there....


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## Gope

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> I  was reading an interview with the parents of the policeman shot in Paris in English about men "pretending to be Muslims". Surprisingly for myself I couldn't think readily of a way to say it in Urdu or Hindi. Any help would be appreciated.


Even if I am not able to answer this question, could you please clarify in what sense "pretending to be muslims" is used here. For it could mean either of two things:
1. Men who are non Muslims but masquerading as Muslims.
2. Men who are Muslims but who in the speaker's opinion are not true Muslims but only pretend to be so.
This will help me appreciate the responses to the question posted by various members of the Forum.


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## littlepond

^ In the article's context: "2. Men who are Muslims but who in the speaker's opinion are not true Muslims but only pretend to be so."


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## littlepond

Cilquiestsuens said:


> There is an article in Urdu here and in Hindi there....



I do not agree with BBC's Hindi translation. The original didn't say "fake Muslims".


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## tonyspeed

dikhaavaa would seem an appropriate word to me in the first sense.

musalmaan hone kaa dikhaavaa de rahe the


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## marrish

Gope said:


> Even if I am not able to answer this question, could you please clarify in what sense "pretending to be muslims" is used here. For it could mean either of two things:
> 1. Men who are non Muslims but masquerading as Muslims.
> 2. Men who are Muslims but who in the speaker's opinion are not true Muslims but only pretend to be so.
> This will help me appreciate the responses to the question posted by various members of the Forum.


Thank you for this. In my understanding of the situation and the context of the article I read the second meaning is appropriate here: men whose religion is Islam but whose understanding of the religion amounts to them not being Muslims, in fact only pretending to be Muslims.

Thank you for all the suggestions.

Cilquiestsuens SaaHib, thanks for BBC Urdu version of this text, _naam-nihaad musalmaan_ is exactly what should be understood under it; the Hindi version has been disqualified by littlepond jii, and rightly so; but the problem remains because I requested assistance with the verb "to pretend to be" and "_naam-nihaad_" is an adjective. Another point, the recurring theme in almost all answers is U. da3waa/H. daavaa. One could say it means "to claim to be", not exactly to pretend to be.


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## littlepond

marrish said:


> ... but the problem remains because I requested assistance with the verb "to pretend to be" and "_naam-nihaad_" is an adjective. Another point, the recurring theme in almost all answers is U. da3waa/H. daavaa. One could say it means "to claim to be", not exactly to pretend to be.



"pretend" is used here precisely in the sense of "claim": see here for definition of "pretend".


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## tonyspeed

tonyspeed said:


> dikhaavaa would seem an appropriate word to me in the first sense.
> 
> musalmaan hone kaa dikhaavaa de rahe the




Correction: This should be _dikhaavaa karnaa_.


_dikhaavaa kar rahe the_


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## Cilquiestsuens

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> I  was reading an interview with the parents of the policeman shot in Paris in English about men "pretending to be Muslims". Surprisingly for myself I couldn't think readily of a way to say it in Urdu or Hindi. Any help would be appreciated.



marrish Saahib. I don't know exactly what you are looking for. Maybe a more energetic expression, which might be close to 'pose as'. If it is the case, Urdu is loaded with this kind of expressions:

islaam kaa *DhoNg racha kar* khuun kii holi khelne vaale log.

musulmaani *kaa bhes oRhne* waale, etc...


But again, if we assume as you said that those people sincerely think they are muslims, then this doesn't apply.

By the way, I haven't read the article, but since the original language of the interview is French, I'd bet the parents have said _*prétendu, *_which is an participial adjective that can translate to _*naam-nihaad*_, as in French _*prétendre*_ only means to claim (_*da3vaa karnaa*_).


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## Gope

I have read the interview which is in the French language. Here is what was said: 
_Sa famille a appelé à ne pas faire d'amalgame entre musulmans et terroristes. "Mon frère était musulman, il s'est fait abattre par des *faux* *musulmans*", a précisé le frère du policier disparu. 
faux _translates as _false _or _untrue._


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## Cilquiestsuens

Gope said:


> I have read the interview which is in the French language. Here is what was said:
> _Sa famille a appelé à ne pas faire d'amalgame entre musulmans et terroristes. "Mon frère était musulman, il s'est fait abattre par des *faux* *musulmans*", a précisé le frère du policier disparu.
> faux _translates as _false _or _untrue._



Thank you Gope Saahib, even if I lose my bet... _faux_ is indeed a very strong statement ( = fake) it seems the English version has been toned down and the Hindi translation is closer to the original. The sentences I suggested would fit then, (islaam kaa *DhoNg rachaane *vaale yaa musulmaani *kaa bhes oRhne* waale, etc...), although *jhuuTe / naqlii / do nambar / khoTe / khoTe sikke / fraaDii musulmaan *could simply do it.


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## amiramir

As a follow up, I'm trying to get a better handle of 'pretend' in Hindi. 

If someone is flat out lying (i.e. pretending in a negative way)-- i.e. He's pretending to be sick, but he's not-- I would have said 'Vo bimaar hone ka naatak kar raha hai.' (I note this construction isn't mentioned above, so maybe I am wrong.

But which of the previously mentioned suggestions would be useful for 'pretend' in a more neutral sense (i.e. you're playing with a child and say 'Let's pretend we're two cats in a tree)

I'm coming up blank, as I can't get a sense of whether there are any value judgements attached to the previous suggestions.

Thank you very much.


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## littlepond

For the sick case, the really negative would be "voh bimaar hone kaa svaang kar rahaa hai". One could also say: "voh bimaar hone kaa bahaanaa kar/banaa rahaa hai". "naaTak" also works, but is not so strong (negatively). In fact, in your two cats example, again "naaTak" can be used (this time with a neutral or even naughtily positive value): "chalo, ham do billii hone kaa naaTak karte haiN".

Remember that the OP had "pretend" in the sense of "claim": a completely different meaning from pretending in the sense of "acting" (as here: sick/cats/etc.).


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## tarkshya

amiramir said:


> But which of the previously mentioned suggestions would be useful for 'pretend' in a more neutral sense (i.e. you're playing with a child and say 'Let's pretend we're two cats in a tree)
> ...



The closest phrase I can think of is "farz karo ke hum do billiyaan hain...". This sounds bit tilted towards Urdu, but it is passable in Hindi. You will hear it frequently in Hindi movies. (Especially in courtroom dramas where the tough nut lawyer would cross examine a witness as "farz karo ke.."  )


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## aevynn

amiramir said:


> But which of the previously mentioned suggestions would be useful for 'pretend' in a more neutral sense (i.e. you're playing with a child and say 'Let's pretend we're two cats in a tree)



Sorry about reviving an old thread! I found this thread a little while ago when I was also drawing a blank when it came to saying "pretend" in the children playing context that @amiramir asked about. Then recently, I ran into the following sentence in a book by Ismat Apa which made me remember that _bannaa_, in addition to its other meanings, can also be used to mean something like "to pretend to be" or "to act like."
​_shamman ne sochaa koii uThaa na de. wo jaldii se sotii ban gaii magar use waqaii niind aa gaii. _​Shamman got worried that someone would take her away [from Manjhu]. She quickly pretended to be asleep, but then she actually fell asleep.​
It seems like _bannaa_ hasn't been suggested above, though maybe it could provide alternative translations for some of the sentences that were asked about above. For instance, what would others think about the following sentences?
​He isn't really Muslim. He just pretends to be.​_wo musalmaan hai nahiiN, sirf bantaa hai. _[I imagine this might be said with an emphasis on the first _hai_ and then on the _bantaa_...?]​​Let's play on the tree pretending to be cats.​_chalo billii bankar peR par kheleN._​


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## littlepond

aevynn said:


> _shamman ne sochaa koii uThaa na de. wo jaldii se sotii ban gaii magar use waqaii niind aa gaii. _​Shamman got worried that someone would take her away [from Manjhu]. She quickly pretended to be asleep, but then she actually fell asleep.​


​
That's a fine literary example; one can use "ban-naa" like this in speech, too, but it's less common.
​​


aevynn said:


> He isn't really Muslim. He just pretends to be.​_wo musalmaan hai nahiiN, sirf bantaa hai. _[I imagine this might be said with an emphasis on the first _hai_ and then on the _bantaa_...?]​


​​In such a sentence, the "pretend" carries often a negative connotation (or a connotation of exaggeration) - it's not as neutral. It takes one to the (though different) sentence ""voh baRaa bantaa hai" (~"voh baRaa itraataa hai"). For this sentence, the most neutral possible would be something like "voh musalmaan hone kii nakal karta hai."​​​


aevynn said:


> Let's play on the tree pretending to be cats.​_chalo billii bankar peR par kheleN._​



Perfectly fine, indeed, especially when translated into English. For me as a Hindi speaker though, "billii ban kar khelnaa" carries a different nuance, which may or may not overlap with "billii ban-ne kaa naaTak khelnaa." Let's take "lomRii" (fox), rather than "billii," for better illustration.
"voh vahaaN lomRii ban kar aa gayaa": he came there acting cunningly as a fox (the more usual interpretation) OR he came there in the shape of a fox (if context indeed warrants this meaning)
"voh vahaaN lomRii kaa naaTak kar rahaa hai": he is pretending to be a fox there, he is playing being a fox there[/quote]


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## aevynn

littlepond said:


> In such a sentence, the "pretend" carries often a negative connotation (or a connotation of exaggeration) - it's not as neutral. It takes one to the (though different) sentence ""voh baRaa bantaa hai" (~"voh baRaa itraataa hai"). For this sentence, the most neutral possible would be something like "voh musalmaan hone kii nakal karta hai."



It does feel negative, but then again, perhaps the context sort of forces the negativity? These are, after all, accusations of dishonesty, and a feeling of repulsion in response to dishonesty is probably a cross-cultural universal, so perhaps it's bound to sound at least slightly negative no matter what word(s) or language you use.

_nakal karnaa_ does sound a bit more neutral, but perhaps this is closer in meaning to "imitate" or "copy" rather than "pretend"...? I'm reminded of times when my sister would follow me around repeating everything I was saying (and me complaining to my parents, _dekho, vo phir merii nakal kar rahii hai!_). But anyway, I suppose "imitate" and "pretend" are not too semantically distant.
​


littlepond said:


> Perfectly fine, indeed, especially when translated into English. For me as a Hindi speaker though, "billii ban kar khelnaa" carries a different nuance, which may or may not overlap with "billii ban-ne kaa naaTak khelnaa." Let's take "lomRii" (fox), rather than "billii," for better illustration.
> "voh vahaaN lomRii ban kar aa gayaa": he came there acting cunningly as a fox (the more usual interpretation) OR he came there in the shape of a fox (if context indeed warrants this meaning)
> "voh vahaaN lomRii kaa naaTak kar rahaa hai": he is pretending to be a fox there, he is playing being a fox there



I think you're right that _bannaa_ is a little fickle. Probably part of the explanation for this is that the word is semantically quite broad (to become, to be made, to pretend to be, to act like, ...), which means usages are very context sensitive. If we're just looking at single sentences in isolation, each one using _bannaa_, each sentence might lead one to imagine a different context, which in turn could lead to a potentially different meaning for the _bannaa_ that occurs in that sentence. In contrast, _naaTak_ has a comparatively narrow semantic range, so it's meaning is perhaps likely to feel more uniform from sentence to sentence.



aevynn said:


> _shamman ne sochaa koii uThaa na de. wo jaldii se sotii ban gaii magar use waqaii niind aa gaii. _
> Shamman got worried that someone would take her away [from Manjhu]. She quickly pretended to be asleep, but then she actually fell asleep.



Today I'm intrigued by the highlighted grammar above, in which a *participle* is being used as the non-subject argument of _bannaa_. Is this kind of a construction peculiar to _sonaa_? Can anyone think of a similar sentence/context (made up, or from literature) in which the non-subject argument of _bannaa_ is a participle of some verb besides _sonaa_ (perhaps with the meaning "to pretend to...")?


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## marrish

As to the last, ... _chalte bano!_, pardon my French = _apnii shakal gum karo_!


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## aevynn

marrish said:


> As to the last, ... _chalte bano!_, pardon my French = _apnii shakal gum karo_!



 This is a nice example. Thanks!


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## littlepond

I had also immediately thought of "chalte bano" as an example as soon as I saw your observation, @aevynn jii, and I think many intransitive verbs will also fit in.


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## aevynn

littlepond said:


> I had also immediately thought of "chalte bano" as an example as soon as I saw your observation, @aevynn jii, and I think many intransitive verbs will also fit in.



Would you be willing to put together a sentence or two that sound natural to you (with appropriate context, if necessary) that use this construction with other intransitive verbs? Many that I tried end up sounding a bit off, in particular when I'm aiming for a "pretending" meaning.

In any case, this seems to point to further fickleness of meaning with _bannaa_! We've got _sote bannaa_ meaning "to pretend to sleep" and _chalte bannaa_ meaning "to 'get lost.'" Another usage involving similar syntax but rather different semantics is constructions of the form _X se Y-te na bannaa,_ meaning something like "for X to be unable to Y," as in the following excerpt from a Hindi translation of Tagore's _Chokher Bali_.

... usne ye samjhaa ki mahendra ne shaayad use bulaayaa hai. lekin achaanak hi usse kamre meN jaate na banaa, wo pahle andhere darwaaje kii aaR se mahendra ko dekhne lagii.​


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## littlepond

@aevynn jii, I could easily imagine a sentence similar to the one you quoted with "sonaa" with some other verbs as "ronaa" and "marnaa." Basically, all those intransitive verbs where one can be imagined to do a "suaaNg" or "naaTak." However, I don't know if they really have been used in literature like this; in speech, such construction is uncommon, at least in my experience.

I think another meaning of "ban-naa" is also "beginning to (happen)": for example, "gaaRii chaltii banii" can mean a couple of things, one of which would be the "the car started to move." Again, "voh rotii banii" can mean either "she pretended to be crying" or "she (almost) started to cry, was on the verge of crying, she got crying."


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## littlepond

littlepond said:


> In such a sentence, the "pretend" carries often a negative connotation (or a connotation of exaggeration) - it's not as neutral. It takes one to the (though different) sentence ""voh baRaa bantaa hai" (~"voh baRaa itraataa hai").​



Just for future readers, I should've nuanced the phrase "voh baRaa bantaa hai": it can mean different things based on where the stress is.
"voh _baRaa_ bantaa hai" - he is trying to be more big/great/grand/magnanimous/old/wise than (me, the world, etc.)
"voh baRaa _bantaa_ hai" - he is trying to show off, he is trying to be bigger than he is, he is putting on airs

The second nuance also one takes to the expression "ban-naa Than-naa" - to do make-up, etc. Usually in this particular expression, "ban" goes with "Than," but one _could _also imagine "ban" alone.


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## aevynn

littlepond said:


> Again, "voh rotii banii" can mean either "she pretended to be crying" or "she (almost) started to cry, was on the verge of crying, she got crying."



Thanks for this! I felt uncertain about _voh rotii banii_ for "she pretended to cry," so it's good to know that you feel like it could have this meaning.


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