# It's not nothing



## hadronic

Hello, 

How do you say "it's not nothing", in the meaning of "it surely is a small thing but at least it is there"? 

My problem is that usually , כלום or שום דבר must be accompanied by לא, ex: 
- אני לא רואה כלום,
- שום דבר לא קרה. 

But it seems that with verb "to be" (or lack thereof), that לא is not needed :  it is nothing = זה כלום. Or is it זה לא כלום? Or do both mean the same thing? 
- If "it's nothing" is זה כלום, then "it's not nothing" could be זה לא כלום. 
- If "it's nothing" is זה לא כלום, then how does one say "it's not nothing"? 
- If both זה כלום and זה לא כלום mean the same thing, then how does one distinguish between the two contradictory meanings of זה לא כלום? 

I hope I've been clear enough  
Thx!


----------



## aavichai

כלום is a thing
when you say: "he didn't say a (no)thing"
in Hebrew is: "הוא לא אמר כלום"
but you can't say: "הוא לא אמר לא כלום"
then it doesn't mean the same thing

so why זה כלום and זה לא כלום
means "it's nothing"?
my opinion is this:
1. First of all: because this word כלום been used just in a negative way
it got the meaning of "Nothing" (instead of something)
2.so when you say זה כלום in your mind you say it's nothing
3. when you say זה לא כלום you actually mean זה אפילו לא כלום "it's not Even a thing (or nothing)
that's why i think it got the same meaning

it's like when people want to say that they doesn't care
so they say "I give a damn" and "I don't give a damn"
and it's the same thing
but you need to see it as "I give a damn" and "I'm not Even give a damn"


----------



## hadronic

Is הוא לא אמר לא כלום a possible utterance meaning "he didn't say nothing (=he actually did say something)"?

Also, how do say " it's not nothing"?
Is it possible to make a difference with the intonation : ze lo klúm = it's nothing,  vs.  ze ló klum = it's nót- nothing.
Ex: הוא אפילו אמר לך תודה. זה* לא *כלום, (אלא) זה אומר משהו.


----------



## aavichai

there isn't a real different between זה לא כלום and זה כלום
it seems that זה לא כלום is stronger to say "it's nothing"
but in reality I think that it is what the person use to say
a person who say זה כלום he will always say that
and there are those who wil say most of the time זה לא כלום

With the intonation you can give any meaning you want to both of them
it really doesn't matter.

When you wrote that:
Ex: הוא אפילו אמר לך תודה. זה* לא *כלום, (אלא) זה אומר משהו.

the word כלום in this case is separated from the לא
and it cannot be like that
you wrote "he even thanked you. it is not nothing (means that it is something)

but in Hebrew the לא כלום is like mini-expression and when they are together - its meaning is "Nothing"
so "he even thanked you. זה לא כלום it's nothing.

now when I think about it: if you really separate the לא and the כלום
it can be understood like that, but like you said it all about the intonation

But no one talk like that because it's confusing
they just say straight: זה אומר משהו It's means something


----------



## Drink

aavichai said:


> it's like when people want to say that they doesn't care
> so they say "I give a damn" and "I don't give a damn"
> and it's the same thing
> but you need to see it as "I give a damn" and "I'm not Even give a damn"



You are mistaken. "I give a damn" means "I care".

I think a good analogy here is French "personne". How would you say in French "That's not no one"?


----------



## aavichai

oh OK I didn't know that
I wanted to give example from english

so i will give an example from Hebrew
אני שם ז*ן = אני לא שם ז*ן

the same thing
אני לא שם ז*ן means אני אפילו לא שם ז*ן


----------



## hadronic

In French you would say : 
- it's nothing / nobody : ce (n') est rien / ce (n') est personne 
- it's not nothing / nobody : ce (n') est pas rien / ce (n') est pas personne. 

You could also say "ce n'est pas n'importe qui" (it's not whoever / it's not a random person).


----------



## amikama

hadronic said:


> הוא אפילו אמר לך תודה. זה* לא *כלום, (אלא) זה אומר משהו.


In this case, I'd say:
הוא אפילו אמר לך תודה. זה יותר מכלום / משום דבר.
Or:
הוא אפילו אמר לך תודה. גם זה משהו.


----------



## hadronic

In French, _c'est pas rien_ and _c'est plus que rien _have quite different connotations, I don't know if זה לא כלום and זה יותר מכלום carry the same ones in Hebrew.
_C'est pas rien _is rather optimistic : it seems like a small thing, but it actually has a big significance. 
_C'est plus que rien_ is more pessimistic : it is a small thing, but it's better than nothing, and you have to make do with it. 

גם זה משהו sounds good. What about זה לא דבר קטן?


----------

