# Polite form for potential verbs



## adexx

Hello,

It just crossed my mind, is there a honorific/polite form (敬語) for potential verbs (e.g. できる、行ける、食べられる...)? 

And usually, I use られる for 尊敬語 (because the formation is easy to remember), but I wonder in some cases how do you tell it apart from potential verbs?
E.g.　（奥さんが）あの料理食べられましたか。 can be understood as:
1. Did your wife eat that dish ? (食べられる as polite form of 食べる)
2. Could your wife eat that dish ? (食べられる as potential form of 食べる)
... right?

Some insight please?

Thanks


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## AmaryllisBunny

Yes, you would use a different verb.

召し上がる - to eat: 尊敬語
召し上がります to eat: 尊敬語＋丁寧語

However, these verbs, are very very polite and may seem out of place in most contexts.
I can't Google it right now but there are definitely forms other than the ones I gave for, go.

You may also look at, 「お。。。になる」


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## Flaminius

Avoiding a direct reference to the listener's ability is a characteristic of the polite speech.  Potential expressions in polite speeches are usually a device that makes the speaker more supplicant.

You may know a polite request for postponement of something is made thus:
延期していただけませんか。
Here, いただく is conjugated to the potential form.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

adexx said:


> Hello,
> 
> It just crossed my mind, is there a honorific/polite form (敬語) for potential verbs (e.g. できる、行ける、食べられる...)?
> 
> And usually, I use られる for 尊敬語 (because the formation is easy to remember), but I wonder in some cases how do you tell it apart from potential verbs?
> E.g.　（奥さんが）あの料理食べられましたか。 can be understood as:
> 1. Did your wife eat that dish ? (食べられる as polite form of 食べる)
> 2. Could your wife eat that dish ? (食べられる as potential form of 食べる)
> ... right?
> 
> Some insight please?
> 
> Thanks



There are a lot of alternative expressions to mean the same thing in every language, in Japanese as well.
So when a potential verb and a polite form are confusing, we can choose alternative expressions to make the difference clearer.

Did your wife eat that dish? あなたの奥さんは、あの料理を召し上がられたのですか？

Was your wife able to eat that dish? あなたの奥さんは、あの料理をお食べになることができなさったのですか？　お食べになることができたのですか？　あの料理を召し上がることが可能だったのですか？

（←These are a little bit awkward and sounds unnatural, but if you want to emphasize to say something polite and also having potentiality, these may be possible alternations.)


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## Flaminius

AmaryllisBunny said:


> Yes, you would use a different verb.
> 
> 召し上がる - to eat: 尊敬語
> 召し上がります to eat: 尊敬語＋丁寧語
> 
> However, these verbs, are very very polite and may seem out of place in most contexts.


They are getting out of place not because they are too polite but not polite enough.  [It's hard to tell whether the Japanese society is getting less egalitarian or the respect contained in the word is devaluated because of over-use; perhaps a little bit of both.]

Now it is a tendency to use いただく for 食べる when politeness is necessary.  I think I have once heard iいただいていかれますか in an TV show.  This usage is regarded as a frequent but vulgar, and learners are advised not to use.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

＠Flam:
『「いただく」は食う、食べるの謙譲語であり、尊敬語として用いるのは間違いであるが、最近は増えてきている。』
というような記載が下のリンクにありました。　私は言語フォーラムのような場所で外国人や子供に「いただく」を尊敬語として教えるのには相当の抵抗がありますが、時代に則したアドバイス、ということですか？

http://dictionary.goo.ne.jp/leaf/jn2/12108/m0u/


（追記）
http://www.sanseido.net/main/words/hyakka/sonkei/
（このリンクでは、食べる、飲むの、謙譲語と丁寧語には含めていますが、尊敬語には含めていないスタンスをとっているようです。）


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## Flaminius

私は、「いただく」を尊敬語*として使う人が増えていると書きましたが、学習者が使うことはお勧めしないとも注意しています。これは結構広範に観察できる事実なので、それに触れないのは、事実をなかったことにすることであり、私は反対です。

Edit
* 厳密には私は尊敬語という用語をつかっていません。この現象は「いただく」が尊敬語になりかけているのか、尊敬語という概念がすたれて来て、かわりに丁寧語的な用法が伸びているのか、他の理由があるのかよくわからないので、ごまかしています。


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## AmaryllisBunny

@SoLaTiDoberman and @Flaminius, can you explain in English the arguments presented in Japanese please?


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## Flaminius

Okay, I will give the summary.  SLTD might want to give their own version of the summary independently.
SLTD in #6 took issues with part of my previous post.


Flaminius said:


> Now it is a tendency to use いただく for 食べる when politeness is necessary. I think I have once heard iいただいていかれますか in an TV show. This usage is regarded as a frequent but vulgar, and learners are advised not to use.


They said it is unbecoming to teach foreigners and children about this usage of いただく.

My ensuing post is a rebuttal to the effect that my comment was not an endorsement but a mention.  Although wrong (in sense that there are a lot of people who have scathing views on it), it is a broadly observed phenomenon and it is not fair to let learners take note of it.


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