# Persian: Lonely



## Shrykull

i am looking to engrave the word 'lonely' into a ring.
I understand the dangers of using google translate for things like this but here are the words i got:
تنهایی
تنها
من تنها هستم
what would be the most acceptable way to say the English meaning of 'lonely' in Persian if any of these?
either a word or a phrase is fine. whatever makes the most sense.
 
<<Out of scope request removed>>


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## colognial

Hi, Shrykull. تنها is the appropriate word to use if you want the inscription to mean "lonely". As for a proverbial phrase, how about the first line from this 600 or so year old couplet:

دلا خو کن به تنهایی که از تن ها بلا خیزد
سعادت آن کسی دارد که از تن ها بپرهیزد

O my Heart, be accustomed to loneliness, since out of the multitude [literally: many bodies] rise up calamities.
Happiness is to be had by whoever can ellude the multitude.


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## Shrykull

Wow that's brilliant. Thank you. Could you explain what is meant by 'multitude' if at all possible? Is it meaning the multitude of people , as in society?


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## colognial

Shrykull, 'multitude' is my word for 'bodies'=تن ها. The implied meaning in Persian is not 'bodies', but 'multitudes', 'others', or 'humans'.

The fact is, the poet has used a pun in the couplet quoted. In Persian, the two words تنها and تن ها sound exactly the same. It's as if he chooses to say 'bodies' in place of 'other people', in order to be able to benefit from the effect of the pun.


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## Sheila.S.A

What a good question! : )

Hello Shrykull

I'm agree with all the things dear colognial said.

But as "Persian" is a really extended and eloquent language we have other words for "lonely". I suggest you to consider what you mean by "lonely" exactly! 

For example we have these translations for "lonely" too : غریب that means someone who is far from his/her family and friends and home so he/she feels alone.

or  بی یار or بی کس that is a little bit more romantic and means someone who doesn't have anyone to love or give her/his love to and generally we can say he/she doesn't have any close person in the world. : )

While غریب or بی کس have similar meanings to تنها, there are elegant differences. And these seems more suitable to be used in literary texts.


<<reply to out-of-scope question removed>>


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## Shrykull

Thank you colognial. I love the second line because I feel I understand your translation fully. As im also not sure what is meant by 'rise up calamities.' However the second line is missing the play on loneliness. So it's a tradeoff.


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## Shrykull

so would you say the word بی کس would be a more powerful engraving than تنها (obviously it is dependent on my own feelings, but from an outside perspective which one makes more sense)? My biggest fear is it being the equivalent of for example bearing a Chinese tattoo of 'Power' or 'love'. these types of things can often come across as unimaginative and even laughable when the incorrect translation is used. also that type of poem is absolutely what i am looking for. but just to clarify:
To be lonely is better than being with nefarious or wicked people. = هست تنهایی به از یاران بد (i know its not an exact translation, but is that how it would come across if someone who speaks Farsi was to read it?)

Though in the end it's for me. To remind me of a part of my life. So what it means to me is the most important thing.
I hope to learn the language at some point. My father was from Tehran. I feel like because the language works so differently to english. It would help to gain a new perspective on life.


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## colognial

Shrykull, you're practically Iranian! You belong to two, not just the one, place, people, and hidden impulses, which, I suppose, somewhat explains the urge to keep yourself to yourself, to be تنها (pronounced _tanhaa_)!

Regarding "rise up calamities", think of "calamities emanate from, result from, associations with others, societies, cliques, (the dynamics of) establishing and maintaining connections".

My suggestion is, why not have only the first sentence of the first line, like so:  دلا خو کن به تنهایی (_dellaa khou kon be tanhaayee_ = O my heart, get accustomed to loneliness).

The benefits are, firstly, a smaller engraving or tattoo, secondly, it is more like a hint, such that in the case of an Iranian or Persian literature adept observing the inscription, it's highly likely that they will simply recite the rest of the couplet to themselves enjoying that feeling of rediscovering an old association, while for foreigners the 'recommendation' will be an open one, to be interpreted by each observer according to their disposition or temperament. Finally, I feel the second part of the first line, i.e. که از تنها بلا خیزد, is a bit of a sweeping statement; the same goes for the second line; after all, what choice do we have but to accept the multitudes, and not as a necessary evil either, but as the given of our lives? We may repudiate the togetherness, but I think we are able to do so only in a circumstantial way.

Anyway, if it could be discussed under this thread, I'd be asking you, Shrykull, about a good English saying on solitude.


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## Shrykull

you've totally sold me on that quote. like you said, just the first part leaves it open for interpretation. which is what i want. I'll save a copy of this thread for future reference. I wish i knew some good English sayings, if i did post one it would be copied straight from google.


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## colognial

Well, I'm very glad. Words have an almost magical effect anyway; this is intensified when they travel to far and out places (relative to where they were born, that is).


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## Sheila.S.A

Actually it depends on the way we think about the words.
I can not say which one makes sense more, but to me, بی کس has a kind of negative meaning too, since it seems that a بی کس person needs a kind of sympathy. Although it has an affectional meaning as I said, it has another meanings as in عمید dictionary are mentioned, one of the meanings for بی کس is بیچاره، بی نوا that means destitute and forlorn and this word maybe makes you feel pity for the person! So we should be cautious in using words.




Shrykull said:


> To be lonely is better than being with nefarious or wicked people. = هست تنهایی به از یاران بد (i know its not an exact translation, but is that how it would come across if someone who speaks Farsi was to read it?)



Yes, simply it means "Loneliness is better than bad friends" and it is what a Persian speaker gets from the sentence. (I'm not sure if I was able to answer your question.)


That's interesting, I hope you learn this sweet language and I agree, learning a new language is just like entering to a new world. I would be pleased if could help you learn it through this forum.


Good luck


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## fdb

colognial said:


> The fact is, the poet has used a pun in the couplet quoted. In Persian, the two words تنها and تن ها sound exactly the same.




You are absolutely right. This is a very curious phenomenon in the history of Persian. New Persian tanhā, Middle Persian tanīhā “alone” is formed from tan “body” and the adverbial suffix –īhā, so literally it means “as a (single) body”. But the same suffix –īhā developed (for some not entirely transparent reason) into a plural suffix in New Persian, with the result that tanhā also means “bodies, individuals, people”. As you say, the poet is playing with these two meanings.

Out of curiosity: Who is the author of this distich?


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## colognial

Hi, fdb. If you mean who is the couplet by, well, it's by Sadi (سعدی). I didn't know that 'tanha' when an adjective is a derivative of 'tan'. Thanks for your enlightening remark.


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## eskandar

Do you have any reference for its origin? While searching for the couplet online, I also saw it attributed to Hafez and Mowlana. I'm not convinced it belongs to any of them.


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## colognial

Hafez? I don't think so, eskandar. Molana? Maybe. For me, the association has been there since childhood, when I was taught the lines and told they were by Sadi. I could be wrong, of course, especially as I've never really tested the truth of the claim.


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## eskandar

I really don't think so, either. I was just relaying an attribution (almost certainly false) that I came across while searching. The thing is, I can't find these lines in any of the collections of Sa'di's works I referred to, so my feeling is that the attribution to Sa'di is as false as to Hafez or Mowlana. Most likely it was penned by some anonymous or forgotten poet, which is a shame, as it's a lovely and poignant bayt.


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## colognial

Yes. I agree with you totally, eskandar. And the poet didn't necessarily have to know about the etymology of the word 'tanhaa' to think up the pun, astonishing as the truth about the origins of the word is. I've been racking (or is it 'wracking') my brain ever since I found out about this fact shared by fdb for other similar instances where some word stands for itself as well as for its opposite. Could خدا for instance have at some point in time sprung out of خود, I wonder. Now خود ('self') is quite a breath-taking concept, when you think about it, and so is خدا (god), and yet god is the thing that is supposed to stand well out and above the puny, individualistic self, to enclose it, break down its limits, and offer it expansion and unity with all the other selves and with the universe. Anyway, this is pure guesswork, but I just have this terrible feeling that words of opposite meanings resulting from some flip-over do exist in considerable numbers and that their roots lurk about waiting for a chance to ... Alright, only joking!


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## eskandar

colognial said:


> I've been racking (or is it 'wracking') my brain ever since I found out about this fact shared by fdb for other similar instances where some word stands for itself as well as for its opposite.


As you probably know, such words are referred to as اضداد and there is no shortage of them! Two examples that come readily to mind are فراز (too many opposing meanings to list) and مولا (both 'master' and 'slave').

And apparently the correct form is 'racking' although my instinct was to write 'wracking' !


> Could خدا for instance have at some point in time sprung out of خود, I wonder.


According to something I read online, this is the case: خدا comes from Middle Persian _khwadāy _which is supposedly an extension of MP _khwad_ , that of course being the precursor to NP _khod_ . Essentially the same etymology is claimed here as well.


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## colognial

Of course! Thank you, eskandar! I'm aware that this thread is going all over the place. But I'm just quite pleased knowing that the couplet - distich? - with the words تنها and تن ها in it lends itself to layers of meaning rather than just the one.


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