# parsimonious Ben Franklin



## kansi

What does this *parsimonious* mean?
I looked up on a dictionary and lt's says "excessively unwilling to pay money", which isn't a fit here.

And I assume that we don't use it
in a daily life. Is it a word used in a formal writing?

What does time mean to you?
Quotes about time from the famous and not-so-famous abound. These are just a small sampling. *Parsimonious* Ben Franklin gave us, “Time is money,” and “You may delay, but time will not, and lost time is never found again.”


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## lingobingo

It means penny-pinching, overly frugal, tight-fisted. But it’s likely that the majoriy of English-speakers would not be sure what *parsimonious* meant, if they’d even heard of it.


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> But it’s likely that the majoriy of English-speakers would not be sure what *parsimonious* meant, if they’d even heard of it.


well it's not a daily-use word at all.
Is it a formal word?


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## lingobingo

Yes


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> Yes


I see. is it like people use a lot more in writing than in speaking?


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## lingobingo

Yes. Isn’t that what you meant when you asked if it was formal?


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> Yes. Isn’t that what you meant when you asked if it was formal?


 well I thought it would be used in a formal speech.But it sounds lt is more used in a formal *writing*.


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## lingobingo

It’s just a somewhat unusual word, which is not restricted to any particular use. You’re trying to be far too specific. English doesn’t have hard-and-fast rules like that.


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## Packard

You would more likely hear "cheap" or "miserly".

_Forget about him; he's too cheap to take you to a nice restaurant.

Mike was a miserly sort person and felt that the food at the local diner filled him up as well as did an expensive meal at a "fine dining" restaurant._


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## lingobingo

Packard said:


> You would more likely hear "cheap"


Not in the UK.


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## JulianStuart

kansi said:


> well *Well* I thought it would be used in a formal speech.But it sounds lt is more used in a formal *writing*.


It would also be used in *a* speech (the countable meaning of a speech) to an audience the speaker expects to be famliar with the word.  However, it would be rare in "everyday" speech (uncountable use of the word), unless the speaker can make the same assumption


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## Packard

lingobingo said:


> Not in the UK.


I did not know that.

The derogatory, "He's a cheap bastard" is heard often enough.

What would be the British English equivalent?


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## Edinburgher

lingobingo said:


> the majoriy of English-speakers would not be sure what *parsimonious* meant


 
I must admit that I always thought it had something to do with parsons. 
I suppose that if parsons are often poor, they would be forced to be frugal.


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## JulianStuart

Edinburgher said:


> I must admit that I always thought it had something to do with parsons.
> I suppose that if parsons are often poor, they would be forced to be frugal.


And parsimonious could be considered an antonym of (the original meaning of) prodigal


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Edinburgher said:


> I must admit that I always thought it had something to do with parsons.
> I suppose that if parsons are often poor, they would be forced to be frugal.



It has a different origin: the Latin word _parcere_, which means "to spare" (as in "O Lord, spare your people"). _ Parsimony _originally meant to be "sparing", as in economical or thrifty, but over time it came to mean being excessively thrifty, or even miserly.


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## Packard

lingobingo said:


> It means penny-pinching, overly frugal, tight-fisted. But it’s likely that the majoriy of English-speakers would not be sure what *parsimonious* meant, if they’d even heard of it.


"Parsimonious" was an SAT word, and I think most college-bound students that studied for the SAT exams would know that word.  But having said that, it is a very rarely used word, and even more rarely spoken.  I know what it means but I never use it.  

"Cheapskate" is a much more commonly used word with the same meaning, also consider "stingy".  

"Niggardly" is another word for "parsimonious" and it was another SAT word, but it is a near-homonym of an offensive term and I would not consider using it and I recommend others to avoid it too.

Note:  "SAT test score" or "SAT score" (Scholastic Aptitude Test) was (is ?) a commonly used metric for deciding if a student would be admitted to college.  There were SAT practice tests and SAT preparatory manuals which many studied to achieve a higher SAT score.  It has come under fire lately for showing cultural bias.  I do not know if it is still commonly used.   There was a long list of "SAT words" which we studied in preparation for taking that test.  "Parsimonious" was on that list.


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## Andygc

What I consider a more reliable definition seems perfectly reasonable to me, for "parsimonious Ben Franklin". From lexico.com 





> Very unwilling to spend money or use resources.



Cross-posted
I'd be equally happy with "niggardly Ben Franklin". I've little time for people who can't tell the difference between words such as paedophile and paediatrician.


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## Packard

Frugal, for me means spending your money logically and where it will serve you best, and especially not to waste it on things that have no lasting value.  A frugal person might pick flowers from his own garden for a bouquet, or might buy them for $10.00 from a grocery store, but would loathe to buy a dozen roses from a florist at $30.00.

It is not quite a synonym for parsimonious in my opinion.


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## london calling

lingobingo said:


> But it’s likely that the majoriy of English-speakers would not be sure what *parsimonious* meant, if they’d even heard of it.


Really? That would surprise (and shock) me greatly...


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## Andygc

london calling said:


> Really? That would surprise (and shock) me greatly...


Just checking - this is right, isn't it? Parsimonious = complaining about being expected to eat parsnips.


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## Barque

"Parsimonious" hasn't struck me as particularly derogatory; more towards the "thrifty" end of the scale than the "stingy" one. But I see the WR dictionary defines it as "frugal or stingy". That doesn't strike me as a particularly good definition--they have quite different connotations.


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## Packard

Barque said:


> "Parsimonious" hasn't struck me as particularly derogatory; more towards the "thrifty" end of the scale than the "stingy" one. But I see the WR dictionary defines it as "frugal or stingy". That doesn't strike me as a particularly good definition--they have quite different connotations.


   
I gave an example of frugal in my post #18.

Frugal is a sensible way of working with funds.
Stingy may be sensible, but often only makes sense in the idea that the spender wants to retain as much of his money as he can; all other factors be damned.


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## london calling

Andygc said:


> Just checking - this is right, isn't it? Parsimonious = complaining about being expected to eat parsnips.


Oh well, it's a word they'll never use about me, then. I adore parsnips!

Seriously, I agree with Barque. It doesn't strike me as derogatory. Parsimonious people are careful with their money, not tight-fisted, to my mind.


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## Roxxxannne

Andygc said:


> Just checking - this is right, isn't it? Parsimonious = complaining about being expected to eat parsnips.


No, no, no.  It's a word used to describe wealthy televangelists.  

But seriously folks, I use 'parsimonious' to mean 'frugal.'  I don't think it has a particularly negative meaning, unless you look down on frugality.


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## Edinburgher

Either way, the "mon" in it clearly has something to do with money.


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## Roxxxannne

Edinburgher said:


> Either way, the "mon" in it clearly has something to do with money.


Actually it's a Latin noun-forming ending, same as in alimony (coincidentally also a money word), testimony, etc.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

Roxxxannne said:


> Actually it's a Latin noun-forming ending, same as in alimony (coincidentally also a money word), testimony, etc.



Other Latin-origin words with the same -mony noun-forming ending that have nothing to do with money are ceremony, matrimony, and sanctimony.


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## JulianStuart

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> Other Latin-origin words with the same -mony noun-forming ending that have nothing to do with money are ceremony, matrimony, and sanctimony.


Although originally from Arabic, _antimony_ seems an appropriate example - masquerading as a marriage of form and content


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## dojibear

I think US high school students learn the word "parsimonious". I am sure US high school students read about Benjamin Franklin. But I agree that "parsimonious" is uncommon in daily conversation.


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## kentix

When I've heard it used, rarely, as others have said, it's been with at least a slightly negative nuance. Or maybe it just sounded negative because it's such a long, high-brow word.

Looking it up in the COCA database it seems the most common use is in an academic context, with many examples of the phrase "the most parsimonious explanation" of an experimental result, for instance, meaning the simplest and most straightforward.

I think the quote in the OP is the standard everyday association with money.


kansi said:


> which isn't a fit here.


All those sayings are equating time with money and emphasizing the importance of not wasting it. That's the definition of parsimonious right there in that sort of context.


Andygc said:


> I've little time for people who can't tell the difference between words such as paedophile and paediatrician.


Unfortunately, they have more than enough time for you.


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## kansi

lingobingo said:


> It’s just a somewhat unusual word, which is not restricted to any particular use. You’re trying to be far too specific. English doesn’t have hard-and-fast rules like that.





lingobingo said:


> It’s just a somewhat unusual word, which is not restricted to any particular use. You’re trying to be far too specific. English doesn’t have hard-and-fast rules like that.


I see.The word is used both in writing and speaking as a formal word but it's more used in writing.


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## kansi

What I've learned so far here is...

Stingy, cheapskate and frugal are all informal words for pasimonious, meaning they aren't used in formal speech or formal writing like a speech in a company or a report in a school but used more in everyday conversation.
They mean almost same but in different ideas like frugal means it in the idea not to waste money on something looks overpriced(?).
What idea does cheapskate mean same in?
Niggardly has the same meaning with offensive connotation because it's a near-homonym word of the word ''nigger'.


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## Packard

I mentioned in an earlier post that "parsimonious" was an "SAT word".

The implication of that statement is that the average person would never need to know that word, but that someone somewhere believes that knowing it is a measure of your suitability to go to college. 

My saying that a word is an "SAT word" is my deriding its use.  There is really nothing wrong with  using the word, it just seems pretentious; and especially pretentious if you do not already have an impressive command of the English language.


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## heypresto

kansi said:


> Niggardly has the same meaning with offensive connotation


_Niggardly_ doesn't have any offensive connotations. Some idiots, however, think it does because it sounds to them like an offensive word.


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## Packard

heypresto said:


> _Niggardly_ doesn't have any offensive connotations. Some idiots, however, think it does because it sounds to them like an offensive word.


I was very specific that the near-homonym of the offensive term makes it an unwise choice.  I never said it was an offensive term.


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## kansi

Packard said:


> I was very specific that the near-homonym of the offensive term makes it an unwise choice.  I never said it was an offensive term.


It's like the word is not offensive at all but it just SOUNDs so because of the homonym word and some people who aren't familier with would take it offensive?


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## kentix

kansi said:


> Stingy, cheapskate and frugal are all informal words for pasimonious, meaning they aren't used in formal speech or formal writing


Frugal is a normal word that you might find in any kind of writing.


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## kansi

Packard said:


> and especially pretentious if you do not already have an impressive command of the English language.


it's very true! I will probably never use it unless there is a very right context.


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## Roxxxannne

Interestingly (?) enough, I used the word 'parsimonious' in an email message to some friends, less than a day before you opened this thread, kansi.   But I was using the word to make fun of myself for not wanting to waste something.  Now that I think of it, I was using a formal-register word in an informal context for self-deprecating humor.

I disagree to some extent with Packard.  To me, it's not so much that "SAT words" are pretentious, but that mixing any two registers is a little disconcerting to the listener.  It's the same whether you use upper-register words in a lower-register context or lower-register words in an upper-register context.  And you may be doing that to shock, annoy, entertain, or just wake the f*** up whoever you're talking to.


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## kansi

Roxxxannne said:


> Now that I think of it, I was using a formal-register word in an informal context for self-deprecating humor.


I get this idea..well this would happen in many languages, I guess. To use formal words in regular conversation by some intension.


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## Roxxxannne

kansi said:


> I get this idea..well this would happen in many languages, I guess. To use formal words in regular conversation by some intension.


Exactly.
and, as in my post #39, to use informal language in a more formal context  (...to shock, annoy, entertain, or just wake the f*** up ...).


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## kansi

Roxxxannne said:


> just wake the f*** up ..


this is the one informal in a formal context?


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## Roxxxannne

kansi said:


> this is the one informal in a formal context?


yes  
I inserted the  because using the so-called 'f-word' in a professional context is not advisable unless one really knows one's audience (I swore in front of some colleagues but not others).


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