# La arruga es bella



## Blondeboffin

Hola a todos,

Tengo un problema con esta frase:

"hoy que la arruga es bella" 

Este es el contexto: "La chica viste vaqueros, ni muy viejos ni recién estrenados, hoy que la arruga es bella."

Podría ser en inglés; "Now that creases are beautiful/desired"?

Pero esa parece un poco extraño...hay otras traducciones mejores?

Gracias


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## Miguel Antonio

Hi

This phrase was coined by a Galician fashion designer called Adolfo Domínguez: http://www.google.es/url?sa=t&sourc...emdH9eifimZABbUjw&sig2=lXuoD3wLwW07ygpD5d81ag
It's a play of words with the two meanings of _arruga_ in Spanish: wrinkles (on people) and creases (on clothes)

Hope it helps

MA


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## Blondeboffin

Thanks, but I still don't know how to translate that into English: the play on words gets completely lost.
Any ideas?


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## Miguel Antonio

... in this day and age of *never mind the creases/creases? what creases?/ who cares about creases*?...

Use your imagination a little, I'm sure you'll work something out.

Cheers

MA


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## Blondeboffin

Why so vague? I bet my bottom dollar you're a teacher!

I guess I'll have to slave over this for a while then...thanks for the clues!


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## stretch

Blond--In English, wrinkles can also refer to clothing.  I think the play on words translates wonderfully!


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## Blondeboffin

Indeed, in American English it can refer to clothing: however we rarely use it in this part of Britain, which is why I find it a little odd.


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## aztlaniano

Blondeboffin said:


> Indeed, in American English it can refer to clothing: however we rarely use it in this part of Britain, which is why I find it a little odd.


If you take a look at the clothing in question you'll find that it looks in sore need of a good ironing. "Crease" would be deceptive.


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## Blondeboffin

No, really. Over here, it's "your blouse is creased: it needs ironing" rather than "your blouse is wrinkled: it needs ironing". By all means it is understood, but it remains firmly in my passive vocabularly. I digress...

To be honest though, I'm actually stuck on what the play on words is intended to be!! I don't get it? Am I just really un-witty!!? Help!!!


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## Blondeboffin

I'll take that as a yes, then. *slinks off to another forum*


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## stretch

You may not use it much, and I understand your reluctance, but your own BE dictionary might encourage you to see it from another perspective 

http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=91710&dict=CALD


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## Blondeboffin

*slinks back*

Like I said though, passive vocab.

So can you explain the play on words then?


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## stretch

I haven't seen the clothing in question, but like Miguel said, it seems to deal with wrinkles in the clothing and wrinkles on someone's skin.  That's all I've got, Blond!


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## speedier

Well, before you slink, how about "the day of the beautiful crinkle has arrived"?


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## Blondeboffin

Thank you for those!

I've been thinking about this for a while now, and in context, it seems to be almost cynical: cynical of those people who wear creased clothes to be cool. As if to say "creases/the "nonchalant" look are all the rage these days".


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## SydLexia

"wrinkles are in!"   ??

syd


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## speedier

Are they really Syd? I knew that if I waited long enough I'd be in fashion again!


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## Manuel G. Rey

Blondeboffin said:


> Hola a todos,
> 
> Tengo un problema con esta frase:
> 
> "hoy que la arruga es bella"
> 
> Este es el contexto: "La chica viste vaqueros, ni muy viejos ni recién estrenados, hoy que la arruga es bella."
> 
> Podría ser en inglés; "Now that creases are beautiful/desired"?
> 
> Pero esa parece un poco extraño...hay otras traducciones mejores?
> 
> Gracias



Si se dice 'Black is beautiful' no es muy diferente decir 'Nowadays, crease is beautiful'. 
Adolfo Domínguez se refería a las arrugas en la ropa, y no creo que con un doble sentido de arrugas en la piel.


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## Blondeboffin

SydLexia said:


> "wrinkles are in!" ??
> 
> syd


 
Thanks, that's precisely what I was looking for


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## Ynez

I am happy to see you found a possible translation.

I just wanted to say that I had no idea about Adolfo Dominguez's motto or use of this word. The famous Spanish saying refers to human wrinkles:

Wrinkles are beautiful.



EDIT: Having a look at google, it seems Adolfo really invented that motto. I thought he was using an older phrase, but I was probably wrong.


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## stretch

Okay, 
Ynez says Adolfo was referring to human wrinkles.
Manuel says he meant clothing.
Who is right?  
Or is it truly a _doble sentido_?


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## Manuel G. Rey

The phrase 'La arruga es bella' was launched in 1970 by the Spanish fashion designer Adolfo Domínguez. 
Therefore, originally, it was applied to the clothes. (The crease is beautiful).
But it can be translated also as 'the wrinkle is beautiful ' though this is more difficult to assert.


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## xnavar

Para ampliar:
En 2007 Nivea lanzó el eslógan: la arruga nunca fue bella, en clara referencia al de Adolfo Domínguez y mezclando, descaradamente, las arrugas de la piel (Nivea) con las de la ropa (Domínguez)
Ánimo.


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## stretch

Manuel G. Rey said:


> The phrase 'La arruga es bella' was launched in 1970 by the Spanish fashion designer Adolfo Domínguez.
> Therefore, originally, it was applied to the clothes. (The creases is are beautiful).
> But it can be translated also as 'the wrinkles are is beautiful ' though this is more difficult to assert.


 
I'm not sure it would be so difficult to assert, Manuel.  At least, like I said, in my version of English.  In fact, I think it sounds much more natural [again to the AE speaker's ear] to say "Wrinkles [as opposed to 'creases'] are beautiful."  Just my perspective.


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## Manuel G. Rey

stretch said:


> I'm not sure it would be so difficult to assert, Manuel.  At least, like I said, in my version of English.  In fact, I think it sounds much more natural [again to the AE speaker's ear] to say "Wrinkles [as opposed to 'creases'] are beautiful."  Just my perspective.



If you want to translate 'La arruga es bella', you shall say 'Crease or wrinkle is beautiful'. The Spanish phrase is written in singular. 

Wrinkles may be beautiful, but Jane Fonda was more beautiful a few years ago. 

Anyway, I don't like creases in my shirt or my trousers, the phrase 'La arruga es bella' is not mine.


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## stretch

Manuel G. Rey said:


> If you want to translate 'La arruga es bella', you shall say 'Crease or wrinkle is beautiful'. The Spanish phrase is written in singular.
> 
> Wrinkles may be beautiful, but Jane Fonda was more beautiful a few years ago.
> 
> Anyway, I don't like creases in my shirt or my trousers, the phrase 'La arruga es bella' is not mine.


 
I agree...I don't like wrinkles in my clothes either!  
I understand why you say this:
_If you want to translate 'La arruga es bella', you shall say 'Crease or wrinkle is beautiful'. The Spanish phrase is written in singular._ 
But even though the original is in singular, if we are speaking in general (not referring to one wrinkle/crease in particular), then we need to render it into appropriate-sounding English, not English that "sounds translated."
A similar example of this would be the way we say in Spanish, "cierra los ojos."  In English, it would sound silly to say "close the eyes."  The correct translation is the one that carries the same meaning and impact in the TL as in the SL, not merely the one that adheres most literally to the SL, although to be sure, there must be a careful balance of the two. 
Cheers!


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## speedier

stretch said:


> I'm not sure it would be so difficult to assert, Manuel. At least, like as I said, in my version of English. In fact, I think it sounds much more natural [again to the AE speaker's ear] to say "Wrinkles [as opposed to 'creases'] are beautiful." Just my perspective.


 
As we seem to be correcting for the sake of it today stretch, I thought I'd point out that "as I said"  sounds much more natural to the BE speaker's ear than "like I said".  Just my perspective


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## Blondeboffin

Hi again!

I asked my Spanish lecturer today about this, who has just completed a PHD and is Spanish, and she said it had nothing to do with wrinkles on the face, but, as Manuel said; creases in clothes.

Regarding the contextual meaning which I orginally enquired about, she agreed with me. It was ironic towards people who wear deliberately creased clothes to look "cool".


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## stretch

speedier said:


> As we seem to be correcting for the sake of it today stretch, I thought I'd point out that "as I said" sounds much more natural to the BE speaker's ear than "like I said". Just my perspective


 
I thought that correcting ourselves was the purpose of being here...is it not?  
I'm happy to receive your "correction," though I must say that between native English-speakers, it seems not so much a correction (especially when my version was not incorrect per se) as a comparison/contrast of our distinct variations in the language, which serves us all very well.


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## speedier

stretch said:


> I thought that correcting ourselves was the purpose of being here...is it not?  _Absolutely, if a correction is needed, but in the case of Manuel, he had correctly translated in the singular, but you decided for some reason to correct it to the plural._
> I'm happy to receive your "correction," though I must say that between native English-speakers, it seems not so much a correction (especially when my version was not incorrect per se - [_as was_ _Manuel's use of the singular!]_ as a comparison/contrast of our distinct variations in the language, which serves us all very well.


 _It was just my way of letting off steam and making a point. It is one of my pet hates to see so-called "corrections" without proper substance. Anyway, I'm pleased to see that you are happy to accept it.  _


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## stretch

Speedier, please refer to my previous post explaining my understanding on the issue of plural/singular in this context.  Unless it is referring to _one single crease/wrinkle, _then it should be properly translated in the plural, or collective sense.  If you still have any questions after reading over that post, please send me a personal message, as I believe we are getting off topic a bit.


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## Manuel G. Rey

Stretch, thank you very much.
Likewise, I suppose that to say in English 'El hombre es un animal racional' I should say 'The men are rational animals' 

Blondebuffin, thank you also very much. And forward my thanks to your Spanish lecturer.

But Adolfo Domínguez didn't say ironically but seriously 'La arruga es bella', pretending that creases were 'cool'. His first gentlemen suits were creased. I believe that Ricardo 'Rico' Tubbs (Philip Michael Thomas) was dressed with this designer 'creased' suits in Miami Vice. Irony came later.


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## aztlaniano

stretch said:


> . Unless it is referring to _one single crease/wrinkle, _then it should be properly translated in the plural, or collective sense.


I agree. La arruga es bella = wrinkles/creases are beautiful.
_The crease/wrinkle is beautiful_ sounds awkward and in the case of "crease" makes one think of recently pressed trousers with a sharp crease down the middle of each leg.
However, I also agree with Speedier on "as I said", which is definitely preferable to "like I said", however extensively the latter is used.
I would add that it should be "among English speakers" when referring to more than two.


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## Blondeboffin

Manuel G. Rey said:


> Blondebuffin, thank you also very much. And forward my thanks to your Spanish lecturer.
> 
> But Adolfo Domínguez didn't say ironically but seriously 'La arruga es bella', pretending that creases were 'cool'. His first gentlemen suits were creased. I believe that Ricardo 'Rico' Tubbs (Philip Michael Thomas) was dressed with this designer 'creased' suits in Miami Vice. Irony came later.


 
Yeah, I completely agree, but the text which I took this from was about a beggar who was wearing tattered clothes. The sentence "hoy que la arruga es bella" was incorporated into this context. 

It's my fault though, I forgot to mention the whole context in my enquiry. Sorry!


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## SydLexia

It looks as though it is ironic in context and it is referring to the lack of ironing so possibly

"a convenient, un-ironed fashion", or
"... crumpled clothes are all the fashion"


The word play is in the original is obviously with the Adolfo Dominguez quote which seem to have worked its way deep into the language since 1979 when he first used it as a slogan. 

But to say that the Dominguez phrase had nothing to do with wrinkles on faces is, I believe, rather to miss the point. In its time, the phrase was powerful precisely because of the double meaning and it spawned an enormous amount of comment and many, many jokes. This is Spain we're talking about, remember! It was all free publicity for Dominguez. Overall the campaign was an advertising master-stroke and provided massive exposure for Dominguez as he made his breakthrough.

And, finally, can you really imagine a Spanish-speaker using that as a slogan and not realising it had a double meaning? And the Spanish public not realising it either........ not one madrileño, not one sevillano, not even the abuela....


syd


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## xnavar

SydLexia said:


> It looks as though it is ironic in context and it is referring to the lack of ironing so possibly
> 
> "a convenient, un-ironed fashion", or
> "... crumpled clothes are all the fashion"
> 
> 
> The word play is in the original is obviously with the Adolfo Dominguez quote which seem to have worked its way deep into the language since 1979 when he first used it as a slogan.
> 
> But to say that the Dominguez phrase had nothing to do with wrinkles on faces is, I believe, rather to miss the point. In its time, the phrase was powerful precisely because of the double meaning and it spawned an enormous amount of comment and many, many jokes. This is Spain we're talking about, remember! It was all free publicity for Dominguez. Overall the campaign was an advertising master-stroke and provided massive exposure for Dominguez as he made his breakthrough.
> 
> And, finally, can you really imagine a Spanish-speaker using that as a slogan and not realising it had a double meaning? And the Spanish public not realising it either........ not one madrileño, not one sevillano, not even the abuela....
> 
> 
> syd


 
Yes. Is because of that that I told you about the 2007 Nivea's advertising "wrinkle was never beatiful" clearly acknowledging the double meaning of Dominguez slogan... but Nivea's ad didn't succeed as Dominguez's did, maybe because almost 30 years had passed and hardly anybody remembered the first one.... until now!!! 
Regards


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## Blondeboffin

SydLexia said:


> But to say that the Dominguez phrase had nothing to do with wrinkles on faces is, I believe, rather to miss the point. In its time, the phrase was powerful precisely because of the double meaning and it spawned an enormous amount of comment and many, many jokes. This is Spain we're talking about, remember! It was all free publicity for Dominguez. Overall the campaign was an advertising master-stroke and provided massive exposure for Dominguez as he made his breakthrough.
> 
> And, finally, can you really imagine a Spanish-speaker using that as a slogan and not realising it had a double meaning? And the Spanish public not realising it either........ not one madrileño, not one sevillano, not even the abuela....
> 
> 
> syd


 
Hmm. Maybe when this Dominguez character first coined this phrase it referred to wrinkles on the face too; but in the context which I took this from, the phrase comes directly after talking about clothes. 

It also is referring to a young girl.  I haven't seen too many young girls with wrinkles: beggar or not.


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## Manuel G. Rey

Blondeboffin said:


> Hmm. Maybe when this Dominguez character first coined this phrase it referred to wrinkles on the face too; but in the context which I took this from, the phrase comes directly after talking about clothes.
> 
> It also is referring to a young girl.  I haven't seen too many young girls with wrinkles: beggar or not.



I agree but I would like to precise a point.
Of course, I realise that the phrase has two possible meanings.
But I had more than 40 years when Adolfo Domínguez launched his slogan, and I remember quite well that it was associated with the clothes of the fashion designer, which at that time was starting being famous and wanting to do some noise. Thus, I cannot recall anybody who associated it with the face wrinkles. This happened later, and without great success.
Actually, the phrase was almost forgotten until its revival in this thread.


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## stretch

Manuel, if I may offer some humble assistance...


Manuel G. Rey said:


> I agree but I would like to make precise a point.
> Of course, I realise that the phrase has two possible meanings.
> But I had was more than 40 years old when Adolfo Domínguez launched his slogan, and I remember quite well that it was associated with the clothes of the fashion designer, which at that time was starting beingto become famous and wanting to do make some noise. Thus, I cannot recall anybody who associated it with the face  facial wrinkles. This happened later, and without great success.
> Actually, the phrase was almost forgotten until its revival in this thread.


 
And again, I agree with Syd in that it seems almost totally impossible to miss the obvious double meaning here.
Cheers.


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