# when his daddy would visit he'd come along



## Espléndido

Hi,

I guess all of you know the song 'Son of a preacher man'. Mi concern is about the use of the verbal tense. The singer is using 'would', what I dont know how to translate exactly to spanish in this context:

'Billy Ray was a preacher's son  
And when his daddy would visit he'd come along'

Will it be something like:

- Cuando su padre viniera, él vendría con él (literal, pero muy muy raro!)
- Cuando su padre venía, él venía con él (más lógico, pero no sé si correcto)

Somebody can shed some light on it for me?

Thanks


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## blasita

I think this is just a past habit, so *venía.*

But please wait for the other foreros´ opinions 

Un saludo.


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## Ushuaia

I concur with blasita.


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## aztlaniano

Y cuando su papá venía a vernos, (él) lo acompañaba


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## grubble

Espléndido said:


> 'Billy Ray was a preacher's son
> And when his daddy would visit he'd come along'


I agree with the others. It's not conditional; _"would"_ is the past tense of _"will"_.

I also suggest that the grammar is a little bit wrong but it is not really noticeable.

_"... and when his daddy  visits he  comes along_' (present habit)
_"... and when his daddy  visits he will come along'_ (future habit)
_"... and when his daddy  visited he would come along'_ (past habit)

So _"daddy would visit" _should really be _"daddy visited"_  but I wouldn't worry about it!


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## blasita

> So "daddy would visit" should really be "daddy visited" (others may disagree) but I wouldn't worry about it!



Yes, grubble.  I suppose this would have been the right grammar, but sometimes songs don´t care much about it ...

Un saludo.


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## Masood

blasita said:


> I think this is just a past habit, so *venía.*


Yes, a past habit, so _venía _is correct.


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## Espléndido

Thank you everybody, specially clarifying grubble's explanation. This grammar was really puzzling me!

So, one last question, would you say that this somewhat weird use of 'would' is only restricted to poetic language, or is it possible to employ it in common language?

Cheers


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## Masood

Espléndido said:


> Thank you everybody, specially clarifying grubble's explanation. This grammar was really puzzling me!
> 
> So, one last question, would you say that this somewhat weird use of 'would' is only restricted to poetic language, or is it possible to employ it in common language?
> 
> Cheers


Me parece un estilo literario. Si alguien dijera "would" en inglés hablado cotidiano, sonaría un poco formal o del inglés antiguo. It wouldn't be wrong, of course.


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## aztlaniano

Espléndido said:


> this somewhat weird use of 'would' is only restricted to poetic language, or is it possible to employ it in common language?


It is not weird.
Remember that English doesn't have a proper imperfect tense. Therefore it has to make do with "used to" or "would".


_*WOULD*_
_past of_ will

3
—used in auxiliary function to express custom or habitual action <we _would_ meet often for lunch> 
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/would


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## Spug

grubble said:


> I also suggest that the grammar is a little bit wrong but it is not really noticeable. s _"daddy would visit" _should really be _"daddy visited"_  but I wouldn't worry about it!



I see nothing at all wrong with _daddy would visit_. Both clauses are referring to habitual past actions. Their temporal sense is the same. So there's no reason the verb tenses couldn't be the same.

Look at aztlaniano's translation: "Y cuando su papá venía a vernos, (él) lo acompañaba." It's exactly the same in English.


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## blasita

So, Spug, as a non-native speaker I thought that it would be wrong two _would´s_ together with _when_ here (maybe my idea comes from a kind of ´if´ sentence). Then, could I say e.g. _When we would visit our grandparents, we would be fascinated by it_?

Thanks very much.


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## Espléndido

I agree with blasita, for a non-native speaker 'would' is strongly associated with conditional.

So:

'we would meet often for rehearsing' : 'Quedábamos frecuentemente para ensayar'

'we could meet often for rehearsing' : 'Podríamos quedar frecuentemente para ensayar'

¿no?

Gracias a todos


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## aztlaniano

blasita said:


> I thought that it would be wrong two _would´s_ together with _when_ here (maybe my idea comes from a kind of ´if´ sentence).


Emplear "would" dos veces sería incorrecto en una frase compuesta de un subjuntivo + condicional.
Ej: Si tuviera coche te llevaría.
Had I a car I would give you a lift.  
If I had a car I would give you a lift.
If I would have a car I would give you a lift. 

Pero en este caso, arriba, "would" va como condicional, no para hacer un imperfecto.


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## blasita

Thank you very much, aztlaniano! 

But the fact is that this is what I was pretty sure of (second conditional, not ´would´ as a past habit). Sorry to insist!  So, e.g. _When I would drive my first car, I would feel happy_ (?) (would in both parts of the sentences for past habits?).

Thank you again.


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## aztlaniano

blasita said:


> So, e.g. _When I would drive my first car, I would feel happy_ (?) (would in both parts of the sentences for past habits?).


In my opinion, that's right, speaking of a time gone by.
I remember my first car fondly. When I would drive it I would feel happy.


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## blasita

Thanks!  Un saludo.


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## grubble

blasita said:


> Thank you very much, aztlaniano!
> 
> But the fact is that this is what I was pretty sure of (second conditional, not ´would´ as a past habit). Sorry to insist!  So, e.g. _When I would drive my first car, I would feel happy_ (?) (would in both parts of the sentences for past habits?).
> 
> Thank you again.


This is where I disagree with the others:

I simply cannot believe that any native speaker would say _"When I would drive my first car, I would feel happy"_ 

They would either say:

_Whenever I drove my first car, I would feel happy_. 

or
_
"When I used to drive my first car, I would always feel happy"_


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## blasita

Thanks, grubble.  May it be then a difference between BritE and AmE???

Un saludo.


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## Spug

grubble said:


> I simply cannot believe that any native speaker would say _"When I would drive my first car, I would feel happy"_



It doesn't sound unusual at all in American English. What's more, it's grammatically correct: two clauses referring to two habitual past actions that took place at the same time.

I would have no hesitation using this structure in speech or writing.


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## donbill

Masood said:


> Me parece un estilo literario. Si alguien dijera "would" en inglés hablado cotidiano, sonaría un poco formal o del inglés antiguo. It wouldn't be wrong, of course.



This appears to be another difference in AmE and BrE. _"Would"_ to express repetition in the past is quite colloquial and conversational. I don't see it as literary at all.

"When we were kids we would spend every summer with our grandparents.  We would take hikes and swim in the lake. We would even help with the chores. etc., etc."


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## Masood

donbill said:


> This appears to be another difference in AmE and BrE. _"Would"_ to express repetition in the past is quite colloquial and conversational. I don't see it as literary at all.


Well, you _would _say that, _wouldn't _you?!


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## donbill

Masood said:


> Well, you _would _say that, _wouldn't _you?!



Yes I would! And when I was younger I would say all sorts of things, and all of my British friends would say, "donbill, you certainly talk funny." And I would say, "heck no! you're the ones who talk funny. Where'd you learn to speak English anyway? And they would say Leicester, and I would say that explains it! And we would talk for hours about not much at all."


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## aztlaniano

Masood said:


> Well, you _would _say that, _wouldn't _you?!


I _wouldn't_ expect that many Americans would catch your reference to that line from Christine Keeler in the court hearing on the Profumo affair, Masood, especially if they _wouldn't have_ had not yet reached adulthood in 1963 (although it's true there was a film made in 1989).


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## donbill

aztlaniano said:


> I _wouldn't_ expect that an American would catch your reference to that line from Christine Keeler in the court hearing on the Profumo affair, Masood, especially if he _wouldn't have_ had not yet reached adulthood in 1963 (although it's true there was a film made in 1989).



Okay, aztlaniano, fill me in on the details! (I confess, however, that I do remember the Profumo/Keeler scandal quite well.) I can assure you that we _would tune in_ the news every night and _we would delight in hearing_ about a scandalous affair in a country that we considered to be too dignified to become involved in such tawdry situations. _We would say_, "Wow! they actually do that in England?"


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## Spug

blasita said:


> So, Spug, as a non-native speaker I thought that it would be wrong two _would´s_ together with _when_ here (maybe my idea comes from a kind of ´if´ sentence). Then, could I say e.g. _When we would visit our grandparents, we would be fascinated by it_?



blasita, yes, you certainly could say, "When we would visit our grandparents, we would be fascinated by it." (cuando visitábamos a los abuelos, (esa cosa - "it") nos fascinaba."

Como alguien ha señalado, la palabra _would _en estas cláusulas no tiene nada que ver con la condicionalidad. Es más bien una manera de expresar el tiempo imperfecto - una acción habitual sobre un tiempo indefinido en el pasado. De manera que la frase original de la canción queda perfecta, gramatical y musicalmente.  (es una canción bien chévere).

Las dos _would _seguidas es un poco inusual pero son completamente correctas desde el punto de vista gramatical.

Espero que te sirva, y un saludo.


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## blasita

> blasita, yes, you certainly could say, "When we would visit our grandparents, we would be fascinated by it." (cuando visitábamos a los abuelos, (esa cosa - "it") nos fascinaba."
> Espero que te sirva, y un saludo.



Pues sí que me sirve, Spug, y mucho.

Muchas gracias a TODOS por vuestra ayuda y por enseñarnos un poquito más cada día.


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## Espléndido

Vale, pero entonces sólo el contexto nos va a permitir saber si:

'I would think so'

significa:

'Pensaba que sí' o 'Pensaría que sí'

¿no?

Ejemplo:

a) 'Was she coming?'

b) 'Will she come?'

Gracias a todos por la ayuda.


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## blasita

No sé, Espléndido.  Me parece que no entiendo bien tu pregunta.  Yo diría:  _´Is she coming/Will she come?´_ _´I (would??) think so.´_  About _´Was she coming?´_ no tengo claro dónde situarla, luego no te quiero confundir.

En mi modesta opinión todo depende del contexto, y de si te estás refiriendo sólo a preguntas y repuestas/en general.  P.ej.  _I would think/believe I could change the world (Pensaba que podía cambiar el mundo.=pasado)_.    _´I wonder if they realize how stupid they look.´ ´I would think so.´ (Aquí no es pasado, y yo incluso lo traduciría por: Eso creo.)_ (These last sentences are taken from: http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...4+"i+would+think+so"&cd=2&hl=es&ct=clnk&gl=es).

But the other nice foreros will know best 

Saludos.


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## aztlaniano

Espléndido said:


> sólo el contexto nos va a permitir saber si:
> 
> 'I would think so'
> 
> significa:
> 
> 'Pensaba que sí' o 'Pensaría que sí'


En principio, sí, pero el uso de de "I would think _so_" para decir "solía creerlo" es muy rebuscado, ya que "so" se refiere a algo inmediato, para mi gusto.
Mejor con "that":
When I was a child, I was told that thunderbolts were thrown by Zeus and every time I would see a lightning storm I would think that. (That Zeus was throwing thunderbolts from Mount Olympus).


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## donbill

Hoy en día es muy común decir _"I would think so"_ simplemente para expresar una opinión u observación acerca del momento presente. Es una tendencia moderna que ha sido criticada por los preceptistas. Es poco recomendable.

"Is John going to accept the job?"
"I would think so. = Yes, I think he'll accept it."

"Do you think we need to start on the project now?'
"I wouldn't think so. Let's wait."

o muy coloquial:

"Who's in charge here?"
"That would be me." = I'm in charge here.

Saludos


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