# daughter, girl



## paieye

(M.S.A.) Is the word for the above the same whether one is speaking of 2 or of more individuals (in other words for the dual as well as for the plural) ?


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## ahmedcowon

daughter: ابنة the dual is ابنتان/ابنتين
girl: بنت the dual is بنتان/بنتين

The plural of both is بنات


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## paieye

Thank you !


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## economistegypt2010

I agree with Ahmed.


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## lena55313

I'll put the topic up.
In the dictionary i've read that* بنت* and* ابنة* both mean "a daughter, a girl"
But here is written that a daughte=* ابنة* , a gir= *بنت*
Is there any difference between these two words?


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## lena55313

May be I've cought the difference.* Bint* - it could be a daughter, but if we speak about somebody's daughter. If we speak abour out daughter we should say *Ibna*.
If it's not right, please correct me.


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## analeeh

No.

I think _ibna_ is probably a later development from _ibn_, whereas _bint_ is the older (irregular) feminine.

_bint_ can mean 'girl' or 'daughter'. _ibna_ can only mean 'daughter'. _ibna _feels to me like it is more MSA but you will probably still see _binti_ for 'my girl' in MSA writing.


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## lena55313

Thank you, Analeeh.
But what is the difference between bint and fata فتاة ?


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## Drink

While we're on this topic, I've also wanted to know if there is a feminine equivalent of ولد.


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## momai

Drink said:


> While we're on this topic, I've also wanted to know if there is a feminine equivalent of ولد.


There is no walda as far as I know in Arabic,we usually say bint.Is there a clear distinction between "daughter" and "girl" in spoken or written Hebrew?In Syrian Arabic we use "binet" for both.


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## Drink

In Hebrew, _bat_ means "daughter" and _yalda_ means "girl", but _banot_, which is the plural of _bat_, can mean "daughters" or "girls". And even though _yeled_ means "boy", its plural _yeladim_ can mean either "boys/children" or specifically "sons and daughters", because the plural of _ben_ ("son"), _banim_, usually can only mean "sons" and not "sons and daughters".


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## Hemza

Drink said:


> While we're on this topic, I've also wanted to know if there is a feminine equivalent of ولد.



As far as I know, ولد can be used for males and females. It's the general use of it today which put it in favour of males but basically, it can be used for both.


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## lena55313

Maybe there is difference in age?
walad - 1.an infant of either sex 2. a boy 3. a fellow of any age?
bint - 1. a girl until 14-15 2. like diminitive means:my girl, baby, chick
ibna - daughter
fata - a girl over 14-15
Please correct me if i'm wrong. I want to complete the classification)))

شابة Does this word mean also a girl? Is it = fata?


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## AndyRoo

lena55313 said:


> شابة Does this word mean also a girl? Is it = fata?



From what I have seen, شابة = young woman, aged 16 to 30 perhaps.
فتاة = girl, aged from 5 to 30 perhaps. Maybe the lower age could even be 0 years old.


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## lena55313

Thank you very much! 
So, fata=bint?


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## AndyRoo

Yes I think so (though I am not sure if فتاة can be very young 0-5, but بنت can)

But bint can also mean daughter, and in this case could be any age.


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## lena55313

Thank you. Now it's clear.
Are there in MSA any other words that mean "a girl"?
I've found this word shabba in the dictionary by chance looking for another word and i have no idea if there any other synonyms.
Or may be you've got a link to the synonym dictionary?


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## AndyRoo

There is also صبية which is often used for a teenage girl. It can also mean baby/young child.

And طفلة which is a child (girl). Probably up to 12 or so.


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## lena55313

Thank you!
Tifla - is a girl up to 12. And what about tifl? Does this word mean the same masculine word or is it like walad - infant of any sex?


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## AndyRoo

Tifl can mean a child of any sex when used generally e.g. مستشفى الطفل but I don't think it could be used for a specific case, e.g. طفلي would only mean "my male child), where ولدي could mean "my daughter" (though it would be rare to use it in this way I think).


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## lena55313

AndyRoo, thank you very much!


momai said:


> There is no walda as far as I know in Arabic,we usually say bint


I've found a word وَلِيدَةٌ in plural وَلَائِدُ. Google translated it into English as a daughted.
Arabic - Russian dictionary says that it is a girl.
Which variant is right? If this word means "a girl" what is her possible age?


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## momai

وليد and وليدة  mean newborn male and female respectively.However, they can be used  in some cases for son and daughter.


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## lena55313

Momai, thank you for the response.
But you said above that there were no feminine variant of walad.What did you mean? May be that walad and waleeda isn't used in casual speech, that these two words are too bookish?
If walad is about a newborn of both sex in what case we may say walad (only a boy) or waleeda (only a girl)?
Now I'm making a table with all these boy's and girl's names to put them into my head. That is why I'm too boring. Sorry 

Sorry, Momai, i've spotted that you'd written not walad, but waleed.
My table became more tangled))

So we have waleed and waleeda about newborn. And we have walad if we speak about a baby and his or her sex doesn't matter.
Am i right?

And I found a new pair-word for feminine fataa. It's فَتْى But I don't know how to spell it. In online dictionaries they'are spelling fata without sukun. Should it be fat'a?
And what is the meaning of this word. According to AndyRoo fataa - is a girl from 5 to 30 years old.
Is fat'a - a boy of the same age?

A new question... If we say shabba about the girl age of 17-20 but who is not married would it be offensive for her? Whether is sounds like a woman or like a girl?

Please, if anybody want he or she can answer in arabic. But please, use very simple words. Cause i'll translate by Google.


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## rushalaim

I think those three (son, daughter, home) were derived from the one common root *בנה* , when you bear sons and daughters you build your home.
בן - בנים
בת - בנות
בית - בתים

I think, _Proto-Semitic_ was בִן - בִנְת - בִית
Bi*n*("son"), Bi*n*t("daughter"), Bit("home")


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## Drink

lena55313 said:


> And I found a new pair-word for feminine fataa. It's فَتْى But I don't know how to spell it. In online dictionaries they'are spelling fata without sukun. Should it be fat'a?
> And what is the meaning of this word. According to AndyRoo fataa - is a girl from 5 to 30 years old.
> Is fat'a - a boy of the same age?



It is spelled فَتًى with tanween and فَتَى without tanween. I think it means teenage boy, but I don't know exactly. Maybe it has the same age range as فَتَاة.


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## lena55313

Thank you, Drink. Actually i found sucun in this word only in one resource - in Baranov Arabic - Russian online dictionary. In other resourses there is fatha on the end.


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## analeeh

فتى is a young man, often a teenage boy I think.
فتاة is its regular feminine, i.e. young woman.

I don't think _bayt _has anything to do with _bin_ or _bint_ (_bin/bint_ are from a root _bn _historically_, _whilst _bayt_'s t is part of the root). But in any case it doesn't really matter.


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## Drink

analeeh said:


> فتى is a young man, often a teenage boy I think.
> فتاة is its regular feminine, i.e. young woman.



Just because it's regular morphologically doesn't mean it's regular semantically. It seems like they don't necessarily imply the same age range.


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