# I want to write, I wanted to write ..



## ~ceLine~

Hello!


Can anyone show me the difference between following sentences?


*Θέλω να γράφω (Ι want to continue writting)
*Θέλω να γράψω (I want to write - I haven't written yet)
*Ήθελα να έγραψa (I wanted to write)


Is that true? My guesses and sentences ..?


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## anthodocheio

~ceLine~ said:


> *Θέλω να γράφω (Ι want to continue writting)
> *Θέλω να γράψω (I want to write - I haven't written yet)
> *Ήθελα να έγραψa (I wanted to write)


 
Θέλω να γράφω -> I want to write (continuous)
Θέλω να γράψω -> I want to write (once)
Ήθελα να γράφω -> I wanted to write (continuous)
Ήθελα να γράψω -> I wanted to write (once)

Is this helpful?


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## Kevman

Hi ~ceLine~,

I'm not sure I've got this down like a native either--it's complicated for us foreigners!--but here are my thoughts:

* Θέλω να γράφω* = I want to be writing _or_ I want to write repeatedly.
I find that use of this one usually depends on there being some other indication in the context that the action will be taking place over a period of time, like Θέλω να γράφω μια ολόκληρη ώρα or Θέλω να γράφω κάθε μέρα της εβδομάδας or Τι θέλεις να κάνεις Κυριακές την ώρα αυτή; / Θέλω να γράφω. 

* Θέλω να γράψω* = I want to write.
This one can be considered the 'default.' It doesn't contain any information about duration one way or the other, so it's probably the one you'll want to use in most circumstances.

I don't think the aspect necessarily gives us information about whether the activity has already begun or not, so I don't know that you can interpret it in terms of "continuing to" or "not yet."

* Ήθελα να έγραψα*
Unless there is some sort of crazy complicated mood that I can't think of right now ("I wanted that I should have written"?), the 'subjuncted' verb (in this case: γράφω) only gets conjugated for aspect, not for tense.  The past tense is already indicated in the main verb (ήθελα) so the subjunctive verb can either be in the 'default' aspect (Ήθελα να γράψω = I wanted to write), or the continuous (Ήθελα να γράψω = I wanted to be writing) when other contextual information about the duration is present.

-Κέβμαν


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## ~ceLine~

It was very helpful!

Thank you very much!!


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## ~ceLine~

In my book I saw the following phrases ..

They are past tense + na + past tense ..

I'm really confused, if they are true why cannot I say also "Ήθελα να έγραψa" ...


*Δεν ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας
*Ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια
*Έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ

etc ..


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## Kevman

~ceLine~ said:


> *Δεν ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας
> *Ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια
> *Έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ


Did your book provide translations for these examples? These are what I was hinting at as being "crazy complicated."   I think that a past-tense form after _να_ takes on a more conditional or 'irreal' sense, that is, it indicates something that didn't necessarily happen, but rather that should have happened or that you wish happened.

If your book does translate the examples, I hope it agrees with my translations, because that would mean that I have some clue what I'm talking about here:
Δεν ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας.
_They didn't want to have been between us._
Ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια.
_I wanted to have had enough money for trips._
Έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ.
_You must have had your children here._

As you can see, these aren't in the simple sort of past tense and mood that you used to phrase your guesses in in the first post.  I think perhaps in our responses above we started from your English glosses and worked backward, rather than fully answering your original question. 

So, yeah, Ήθελα να έγραψα would indeed mean something like _I wanted to have written_, if I'm not mistaken.


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## Vagabond

~ceLine~ said:


> In my book I saw the following phrases ..
> 
> They are past tense + na + past tense ..
> 
> I'm really confused, if they are true why cannot I say also "Ήθελα να έγραψa" ...
> 
> 
> *Δεν ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας
> *Ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια
> *Έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ
> 
> etc ..


Meh. That's why I think books should stick to "official" grammar and let you pick up the colloquialisms later on. The verb form starting with "na" is an infinitive. The "correct" way to say the original phrases is Ήθελα να γράφω -> I wanted to write (continuous), Ήθελα να γράψω -> I wanted to write (once), like anthodocheio says.

Now, in every day speech you hear all sorts of things (as I suppose happens in every language); so, ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια & Έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ would not raise any eyebrows - they'd be fine. Δεν ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας sounds weird; it would not sound weird if it was something like ήθελα να ήμουν εκεί. I don't think there is a rule for that, it's a grammatical mistake that is widespread enough to be tolerated/accepted. In every day speech, you might hear "ήθελα να έγραφα". You'd never hear "ήθελα να έγραψα". I suppose you can say this phenomenon can only take place with verbs in past continuous - personally, I much prefer sticking to the rules, orelse it sounds terribly redundant to my ears.


> Ήθελα να έγραψα would indeed mean something like _I wanted to have written_, if I'm not mistaken.


I'm afraid you are  I wanted to have written = Ήθελα να είχα γράψει. Ήθελα να έγραψα is not used at all. Rules are not all that different than in English really, at least in what concerns tense consistency/order (what the heck is that called? Oh well). We just mess around with them a tad too much in informal speech, I'm afraid...

Oh, and - in verbs that don't have perfect tenses (είμαι, έχω) you'd also substitute with ήμουν, είχα, like Kevman says.


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## ~ceLine~

Vagabond said:


> I wanted to have written = Ήθελα να είχα γράψει. Ήθελα να έγραψα is not used at all.


 
Well, I understood what was my mistake here.

But I'm still confused about tenses.
*Can you write me the rules* :S ?

I mean can I write a sentence like:
"past tense + να + past continuous" ?


Now I got only that I can write sentences via those rules:
"past tense + να + simple present" (like "Ήθελα να γράφω")
"past tense + να + future" (like Ήθελα να γράψω)
(or I can start with present simple and continue with the same ways, no problem about that ..)


I hope so you understand what about is my problem, ah Greek is too diffucult! 



Vagabond said:


> Oh, and - in verbs that don't have perfect tenses (είμαι, έχω) you'd also substitute with ήμουν, είχα, like Kevman says.


 
How :S ??


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## Kevman

Vagabond said:


> I wanted to have written = Ήθελα να είχα γράψει. Ήθελα να έγραψα is not used at all.
> _ [...]_
> in verbs that don't have perfect tenses (είμαι, έχω) you'd also substitute with ήμουν, είχα


Ah, now see? I don't think I ever fully understood that before now.  That's how I learn stuff around here! 



~ceLine~ said:


> Now I got only that I can write sentences via those rules:
> "past tense + να + simple present" (like "Ήθελα να γράφω")
> "past tense + να + future" (like Ήθελα να γράψω)


Here's where I think you're getting off on the wrong track, ceLine. The subjunctive verb doesn't have a _tense_, like "past," "present" or "future." It only has _aspect_, like "continuous" (i.e., να γράφω) or "non-continuous" (i.e., να γράψω).

It is a lot like English, where you don't say things like "I wanted to wrote" or "I wanted to will be writing" but rather "I wanted to be writing" (continuous) or "I wanted to write" (non-continuous).

If I've learned Vagabond's lesson correctly: when you want to talk about something you wanted to have happened in the past (I mean, where the subjunctive, the thing you wanted, is in a sort of past tense) then you use a perfective construction with είχα, much like in English:
 Ήθελα να φάω.
_I wanted to eat._
 Ήθελα να είχα φάει.
_I wanted to have eaten._
 Ήθελα να οδηγήσω.
_I wanted to drive._
 Ήθελα να είχα οδηγήσει.
_I wanted to have driven._

Είμαι and έχω itself don't have perfective forms, so instead they're allowed to take 'past-tense'-looking forms after _να_ to achieve their perfective meanings, as in your book's examples.


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## ~ceLine~

Ah well I understood. I wrote "present, future etc" to try to explain what to use there. My friends had teached me like that so I'm  explaining like that, ah easier to me =P
Well, as I see there are many ways to use "na", and also I can translate all from English, it seems the same.
Am I right?


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## anthodocheio

~ceLine~ said:


> *Δεν *θα* ήθελαν να ήταν ανάμεσά μας -> They wouldn't like to be among us
> **Θα* ήθελα να είχα αρκετά λεφτά για ταξίδια -> I would like to have enough money for journeys
> **Θα* έπρεπε να είχατε τα παιδιά σας εδώ -> You should have your children here


 


Vagabond said:


> Oh, and - in verbs that don't have perfect tenses (είμαι, έχω) you'd also substitute with ήμουν, είχα, like Kevman says.


 
And that's why the previous examples work. So for the verb "γράφω" would be "Θα ήθελα να έγρα*φ*α" or "να είχα γράψει" as Kevman says..


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## ~ceLine~

It's very complicated really. Well, it seems like English. I'll study more for it.
Thank you very very much!


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