# participium coniunctum



## Whodunit

This is a terrible feature of Latin: participium coniunctum! I had to do a homework about this topic, and I'd appreciate if someone more proficient could have a look at it.

*Aeneas a Venere matre patriam infelicem relinquere iussus e proelio exiit.*
_Because Aeneas had been ordered by mother Venus to leave his unlucky native country, he went away from the battle._

*Apollo a Troianis de nova patria consultus eos "antiquam matrem" quaerere iussit.*
_After Apollo had been asked about the new native country by the Trojans, he ordered that they search for the "Old Mother"._

*Troiani tempestate horribili oppressi de salute non desperaverunt.*
_Albeit the Tojans were attacked by a horrible thunderstorm, they did not doubt their rescue._

*Didonem ab Aenea desertam mortem sibi conscivisse poeta narrat.*
_A poet narrates that Dido wanted to take her own life, because she had been left by Aeneas._

*Aeneas a Sibylla ad inferos descendere iussus ibi animam patris quaesivit.*
_Because Aeneas had been ordered to descend to the lower by Sibylle, he searched for the native country's soul._

*Nostris temporibus Henricus Schliemann Troiam olim a Graecis deletam effodit.*
_In our/these days, Henricus Schliemann dug up/excavated Troja, which had once been left by the Romans._

Thanks for your help.


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## Brazilian dude

If you mean things that have an accusative subject, it's not that hard to understand. All you need to do is to place the subject (and predicate) in the accusative and the verb of the subordinate clause in the infinitive (present, past or future).

Credo Paulum esse bonum amicum.
I think Paul is a good friend.

Credo Paulum fuisse bonum amicum.
I think Paul was a good friend.

Credo Paulum fore/futurum (esse) bonum amicum.
I think Paul will be a good friend.

Some verbs that may have an accusative subject are cogo, concedo, constituo, cupio, decerno, flagito, jubeo, malo, nolo, opto, patior, permitto, posco, postulo, prohibeo, sino, statuo, studeo, veto, volo.

Brazilian dude


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## Whodunit

No, that's not what I mean. You are talking about the "accusativus cum infinitivo" (aci), which is not what I want. It is easy, indeed, however the participium coniunctum is not easy. Examples:

Imperator *iter* per urbem *faciens* a plebe salutabatur.
*When* *the emperor* *went* through the town, he was saluted by the people/masses.

red = the acting person/subject + the verb in PP (perfect passive)
blue = the "perpetrator" (expressed by "by" in English)
grey = unimportant phrase
*underlined = the participium coniunctum*

As you can see, it isn't very easy.


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## diegodbs

*Aeneas a Sibylla ad inferos descendere iussus ibi animam patris quaesivit.
*_Because Aeneas had been ordered to descend to the lower by Sibylle, he searched for the native country's soul._

*Nostris temporibus Henricus Schliemann Troiam olim a Graecis deletam effodit.*
_In our/these days, Henricus Schliemann dug up/excavated Troja, which had once been left by the Romans *Greek*._


I'd translate "inferos" as the underworld. Patris (from pater = father). According to the legend, Aeneas is said to have spoken to his father's (Anchises) soul.

Deletam = destroyed. "Delenda est Carthago" (Carthage must be destroyed)


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## Whodunit

Thanks for the suggestions, diegodbs. 



			
				diegodbs said:
			
		

> I'd translate "inferos" as the underworld.


 
That's what I was not sure about. Thanks for the suggestion. 



> Patris (from pater = father). According to the legend, Aeneas is said to have spoken to his father's (Anchises) soul.


 
Oops, I must have misread it as "patriis", so that it can come from "patria".



> Deletam = destroyed. "Delenda est Carthago" (Carthage must be destroyed)


 
Oh yes, another mistake! Thanks again for your help.


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## diegodbs

You're welcome!


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## diegodbs

Hi again Whodunit,

*



Didonem ab Aenea desertam mortem sibi conscivisse poeta narrat.
A poet narrates that Dido wanted to take her own life, because she had been left by Aeneas.

Click to expand...

*Why did you translate it as: The poet narrates.....that Dido wanted to take her own life?

What the poet actually narrates in the Aeneid is that Dido took her life, that's what she did. Dido not only wanted to take her life, she did it.

Diego.


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Hi again Whodunit,
> 
> 
> Why did you translate it as: The poet narrates.....that Dido wanted to take her own life?
> 
> What the poet actually narrates in the Aeneid is that Dido took her life, that's what she did. Dido not only wanted to take her life, she did it.
> 
> Diego.


 
Yes, that's true. I think my translation is a bit too free (freer than allowed, I suppose). 

Thanks again.


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## Flaminius

Whodunit, what you call participium coniunctum looks to me conjunction-less participial construction of English.

Apollo, asked about the new homeland by the Trojans, told them to look for the Old Mother.

The participial clause usually precedes the subject of the regent clause but the structure of the above sentence is okay too.  In both the English and Latin structures, the participle or the participial clause is apposited with the regent subject.

In Latin the apposited participle can act as the subject to the regent clause.  Europa was turned into a cow by Zeus.  One writer tells us:
      Bōs quoque fōrmosa.
Without context, this usually means, "A cow is beautiful also."  But here one can assume that bōs (cow or being a cow) stands in apposition with an untold subject, Europa or she.  A more appropriate translation would be, "Even as a cow, she is/was beautiful."

Flaminius,
clear as mud


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## Brazilian dude

> No, that's not what I mean. You are talking about the "accusativus cum infinitivo" (aci), which is not what I want. It is easy, indeed, however the participium coniunctum is not easy. Examples:
> 
> Imperator *iter* per urbem *faciens* a plebe salutabatur.
> *When* *the emperor* *went* through the town, he was saluted by the people/masses.


This isn't that hard, either.  All you need is the present participle of a given verb, which must be in gender, number and case with the word to which it refers:

Homines amantes (nominative plural masculine from amans, present participle of amo, amare) virtutem = homines qui amant virtutem = virtue-loving people = people who love virtue.

Brazilian dude


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## Whodunit

Brazilian dude said:
			
		

> Homines amantes (nominative plural masculine from amans, present participle of amo, amare) virtutem = homines qui amant virtutem = virtue-loving people = people who love virtue.
> 
> Brazilian dude


 
What do "amantes" and "amans" mean? The participle of "amare" is "amatus". If it should agree with "homines", it has to be "amati", since the "homines" are masculine plural nominative.


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## diegodbs

Whodunit said:
			
		

> What do "amantes" and "amans" mean? The participle of "amare" is "amatus". If it should agree with "homines", it has to be "amati", since the "homines" are masculine plural nominative.


 
amatus-amata-amatum (past participle)
amans-amantis (present participle)

homines amati = men who are loved
homines amantes = men who love


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> amatus-amata-amatum (past participle)
> amans-amantis (present participle)
> 
> homines amati = men who are loved
> homines amantes = men who love


 
Oh yes. I must have misread his post. Nevertheless, we don't need the present participle here (in my case), but the past participle. Just to show you what I mean:

*Aeneas a Venere matre patriam infelicem relinquere iussus e proelio exiit.*

infinitive (because of the aci): relinquere - relinquo - reliqui - relictum
PPP (participle perfect passive): iubere - iubeo - iussi - iussum
inflected verb (because it's the predicate): exire - exeo - exii - exitum


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## diegodbs

Yes, you're right, no need to use the presente participle in your sentence.


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## Brazilian dude

I said 



> All you need is the *present* participle of a given verb, which must be in gender, number and case with the word to which it refers:


 
Brazilian dude


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## Whodunit

Brazilian dude said:
			
		

> I said
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All you need is the *present* participle of a given verb, which must be in gender, number and case with the word to which it refers:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brazilian dude
Click to expand...

 
Nevertheless it has nothing to do with this thread.


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## Brazilian dude

Exactly, because your post was clear as mud and you had us all trying to figure out what you had meant with it. And I still don't know what you mean, you see?

Brazilian dude


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