# wines



## humpty

is it true that red wine is considered to be for older people and at which age is a person considered old?


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## Stabbquadd

That's quite true, but there isn't an "age" where you get old. But in fact, the typecasting of the red wine addict is a man between 40 and 70 with a face full of lines and tinted red, with dirty clothes, and who stinks perspiration most of the times ^^
But you know it's like when you say rum is for pirates or beer for gaelic one's


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## Agnès E.

Bonjour Humpty,
I am moving your question to the Cultural Issues forum, as it does not belong to the Themed Lists sub-forum.


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## Kräuter_Fee

I guess it depends on each country. There is cheap wine, that is popular among Spanish teenagers, who mix it with coke and drink it when they go party (it's a cheap drink, it tastes like hell, but it's cheap and that's the point  ).

Good wine is expensive, and you know that older people (adults I mean) are the ones who have more money... moreover it's said that a glass of red wine is healthy.

And then... in villages many years ago there was no food so many parents gave their kids bread soaked in wine. These kids grew up with wine and now that they're old they're still used to drinking wine, there are many cases.


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## Roi Marphille

Kräuter_Fee said:
			
		

> Good wine is expensive, and you know that older people (adults I mean) are the ones who have more money... moreover it's said that a glass of red wine is healthy.
> .[/color]


yes, I think you have a good point. I'd also say this is the answer.

and "al pana pan y al vino vino" or something

cheers, 

Roi


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## VenusEnvy

María: Mix it with coke?    Ewghuhghg...

Well, I think it may depend on socioeconomic status or culture. I agree that those with more money can afford to buy more expensive wine. But, it's not just the adults that drink the wine, the children do as well. 

My family and I drink wine. My parents don't necessarily buy the best quality every time (mostly, because we drink it so often; we'd go broke!). Nonetheless, we're not very rich or very old, but we like a good wine.

I worked in a French restaurant for a while, and it also seemed as though the French (as a culture) loved to drink good wine. This is of course, a very broad generalization, but it was an observation that I noticed while working there, and being surrounded by Frenchies.


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## panjandrum

> María: Mix it with coke?   Ewghuhghg...


 Comment strongly endorsed - PLEUUGGHHH!!
[What a way to ruin a good coke ]
I have never heard of anyone mixing wine with coke.  Of course in Spain, where I recall wine being a lot cheaper than here - indeed cheaper than coke  this might make more sense.

Did I write that?  Well, you know what I mean.

A quick mental survey of my wine-drinking acquaintances........
I really can't see any relationship between age and preference for red or white wine.  Many of them/us drank white wine first, then broadened our taste to include red, but that would have taken place over a short period and I know 20ish red wine drinkers and much, much older white wine drinkers.

I'm variable - if I like it, which is not the same as "if it's expensive".


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## modgirl

humpty said:
			
		

> is it true that red wine is considered to be for older people and at which age is a person considered old?


 
I'm certainly no connoisseur, but the circumstances for serving the wine are much more important than the age of the person!  Generally, when serving red meat, a red wine is served.  When fish or chicken is served, then white wine is almost always more appropriate.

For socializing outside of mealtimes, personal preference probably plays a far greater role than anything else.

Where did you hear that red wine is considered for older people?


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## beatrizg

If a person between 18-25 wants to get drunk quickly he/she will most probably go for a strong and cheap drink (or a beer  ), not for a good bottle of red wine. 

As far as I’m concerned I liked white and red wine in my early twenties as much as I like then now, but then I couldn’t afford a bottle of a decent red. A cheap white wines is not as bad as cheap red, I reckon.


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## modgirl

beatrizg said:
			
		

> If a person between 18-25 wants to get drunk quickly he/she will most probably go for a strong and cheap drink (a beer  )


 
I almost never drink beer, but I was under the impression that the alcohol content of beer is rather weak compared to wine.


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## beatrizg

modgirl said:
			
		

> I almost never drink beer, but I was under the impression that the alcohol content of beer is rather weak compared to wine.


 

You´re right. I meant either a strong and cheap drink or a few pints of beer.


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## Roi Marphille

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Comment strongly endorsed - PLEUUGGHHH!!
> [What a way to ruin a good coke ]
> I have never heard of anyone mixing wine with coke.  Of course in Spain, where I recall wine being a lot cheaper than here - indeed cheaper than coke  this might make more sense
> 
> ".



wine with coke is called CALIMOTXO or CALIMOCHO. 
this is quite common along youngsters in some places of Spain. They usually do it when gather in plazas, bunching together sitting in the ground, this is called BOTELLÓN. It is something definitely not linked to glamour. 
For me it's a crime to mix a good Rioja with coke. Thanking God, they usually do it with cheap red wine.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Roi Marphille*
> wine with coke is called CALIMOTXO or CALIMOCHO.


I will admit, I have never tried this, but to secondthird others' opinion on the subject, bleccggh. This does not sound good at all, but I suppose, it is a matter of taste. 

To respond to the original question, I don't think there is any particular age at which people start drinking wine. I believe much more depends upon cuture, availability of product, and family habits.  

In the US, the legal drinking age is 21, although that does not keep people from drinking alcohol.  I would also argue that beer is a more popular drink choice than wine, mostly due to advertising.  Beer may be advertised on TV and radio and in nationwide magazines because it can be produced at a lower alcohol level than wine.  Wine and other hard liquors (rum, vodka, whiskey) cannot, at least in my state, be advertised through such means, unless it is a specialty magazine (such as "Wine Spectator").  

More likely, however, are the following: 


 beer is less expensive in the US than is wine;   
beer is easier to come by in the US (in many states wine can only be purchaed in a liquor store, while beer can be purchased in grocery stores). 
 I would also argue that some people are intimidated by wine.  By that I mean they feel they have to be ''educated" about wine before they can drink it and enjoy it.  This perception is starting to change, as wine makers are finding other means of bringing their product to a broader audience (wine in a box, wine coolers, fruit-infused wine, etc.)

Still, there is the general idea, that one has to know about wine to appreciate all of its qualities.  As modgirl mentioned, generally, one would only serve a red wine with beef and/or game, and white wine with chicken and/or fish.  This is not necessarily the case, as vinters are experimenting with new blends to cross these traditional lines.

In my particular case, my family served wine to me during formal meals and/or celebratory occasions.  As such, I developed my palate for it at an earlier age, and still prefer it now to other types of alcohol.  I would argue my family is more the exception than the rule.


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## lsp

Roi Marphille said:
			
		

> wine with coke is called CALIMOTXO or CALIMOCHO.
> this is quite common along youngsters in some places of Spain. They usually do it when gather in plazas, bunching together sitting in the ground, this is called BOTELLÓN. It is something definitely not linked to glamour.
> For me it's a crime to mix a good Rioja with coke. Thanking God, they usually do it with cheap red wine.


A family I stayed with in Italy mixed everything with coke, including red wine, for their young children.

I have never heard any connection between red wine and age.


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## modgirl

lsp said:
			
		

> A family I stayed with in Italy mixed everything with coke, including red wine


 
Obviously, in this situation, the drink would most likely be weak.

However, I wonder what the effect would be by mixing a downer (any alcohol) with an upper (caffeinated coke).

I think, on rare occasion, I have drunk coke and rum. But, I don't remember how it felt.


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## JLanguage

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> In the US, the legal drinking age is 21, although that does not keep people from drinking alcohol. I would also argue that beer is a more popular drink choice than wine, mostly due to advertising. Beer may be advertised on TV and radio and in nationwide magazines because it can be produced at a lower alcohol level than wine. Wine and other hard liquors (rum, vodka, whiskey) cannot, at least in my state, be advertised through such means, unless it is a specialty magazine (such as "Wine Spectator").


 
Really? That must not be a law here in GA because I've seen quite a few Jack Daniel's commercials.


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## lsp

JLanguage said:
			
		

> Really? That must not be a law here in GA because I've seen quite a few Jack Daniel's commercials.


GenJen54, you don't get the Absolut ads in regular mags, or see the recent Stoli TV commercial?


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## JLanguage

lsp said:
			
		

> GenJen54, you don't get the Absolut ads in regular mags, or see the recent Stoli TV commercial?


 
I also remember seeing something for Absolut, either on TV or in a magazine, I can't remember.


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## panjandrum

modgirl said:
			
		

> I think, on rare occasion, I have drunk coke and rum. But, I don't remember how it felt.


 That's the general effect 

Wine-drinking has become much more common here over the last .... well twenty years would do as an approximation. Once very much a minority drink, mostly associated with dinner, wine is now the social drink of choice for many people. In fact, when reflecting on colour preferences for this thread it did not occur to me to think of wine with meals.

However, now that I have started that train of thought, I observe increasing flexibility in the choice of wine colour with food.


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## GenJen54

> originally posted by *lsp*GenJen54, you don't get the Absolut ads in regular mags, or see the recent Stoli TV commercial?


I have seen the Absolut ads, and some ads recently for Cruzan coconut rum on cable channels. I don't get them on my local network, so this could be a localized law concerning advertisement of hard alcohol. Of course, it doesn't stop the onslaught of beer commercials during any and every sporting event possible. 

I also know that at least locally neither alcohol or cigarettes are allowed to be advertised on posted materials, such as billboards, within 1000 feet (approx. 300 metres) of a school or church. 

I might have to research this. I recall some years back a federal law either being passed or repealed regarding advertising alcohol, in particular, wine. 

I'm getting ready for guests tonight, but will try to research and get back.


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## beatrizg

panjandrum said:
			
		

> However, now that I have started that train of thought, I observe increasing flexibility in the choice of wine colour with food.


 
I agree. And I think this is the way it should be.


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## Alundra

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Comment strongly endorsed - PLEUUGGHHH!!
> [What a way to ruin a good coke ]
> I have never heard of anyone mixing wine with coke. Of course in Spain, where I recall wine being a lot cheaper than here - indeed cheaper than coke this might make more sense.


 
   

 Ese comentario está fuera de lugar. 
En España hay vinos baratos y vinos caros. Por supuesto los jóvenes no tienen el nivel adquisitivo que los adultos (el calimocho lo consumen principalmente los jóvenes en sus fiestas, no los adultos) y como en la mayoría de los productos (en España tenemos esa suerte) tenemos una amplia variedad de precios, calidad, cantidad, etc... donde elegir... 

Saludetes 

Alundra


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## panjandrum

I understand, not very clearly, that Alundra is not happy with my comments about Spanish wine. Maybe I should try to explain more clearly.
I wouldn't mix coke and wine, the combination sounds dreadful.
As a matter of simple economics, any wine costs less in the country of origin than here.
As a matter of fact, it is possible to buy wine in Spain that is cheaper than coke.
In those circumstances, mixing wine with coke would produce a cheap, alcoholic, coke-tasting drink that young people could afford.


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## modgirl

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Maybe I should try to explain more clearly.


 
Just to make certain that we all understand the subject matter very clearly indeed, there's only one thing to do: bring white wine, red wine, coke, rum, and every other libation that comes to mind to a huge, international party. There, we mix to our hearts' delights and figure out just exactly what the quintessential best "drink" is. I'll bring the cheese curls.


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## Alundra

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I understand, not very clearly, that Alundra is not happy with my comments about Spanish wine. Maybe I should try to explain more clearly.
> I wouldn't mix coke and wine, the combination sounds dreadful.
> As a matter of simple economics, any wine costs less in the country of origin than here.
> As a matter of fact, it is possible to buy wine in Spain that is cheaper than coke.
> In those circumstances, mixing wine with coke would produce a cheap, alcoholic, coke-tasting drink that young people could afford.


 
Panjandrum...

I don't know what wine you spend in your country, or how much expensive it is.

In Spain, (specially in summer) we drink wine (neither expensive, nor cheap,)mixed with soda (gaseosa), and ice cube.

I assure you it's very, very refreshing and delicious, it's named "Tinto de verano" and it's drunk by everybody at lunch, or dinner... or simply instead fresh beer....

I would like you test it. 

But the young people replace soda for coke (is it said so??? by? ) because they like it more sweet.

Although a good, great wine.... never it's mixed. 

Correct me, please.
Saludetes.
Alundra.


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## Alundra

modgirl said:
			
		

> Just to make certain that we all understand the subject matter very clearly indeed, there's only one thing to do: bring white wine, red wine, coke, rum, and every other libation that comes to mind to a huge, international party. There, we mix to our hearts' delights and figure out just exactly what the quintessential best "drink" is. I'll bring the cheese curls.


 

Y yo pongo el jamón... jejeejjej  

Alundra.


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## Kelly B

Ummmm ... are the "coke as a mixer" folks among those who use "coke" to mean any flavored sweetened carbonated beverage, including the lemon-lime sort? I think mixing wine with a lemon-lime _soda or pop_ is just great in summer (a wine cooler) and I'm hoping we're just having a miscommunication?
Rum and Coke (♪ the real thing ♪...) was very popular in Carribean tourist traps. I like that, too.


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## panjandrum

Alundra said:
			
		

> In Spain, (specially in summer) we drink wine (neither expensive, nor cheap,)mixed with soda (gaseosa), and ice cube.


That is what I drank today with my lunch

PS - Good point Kelly B - I had forgotten that thread - although I think that Alundra and I are mixing our wine with non-sweet fizzy water.  I could be completely wrong about that too


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## Alundra

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Ummmm ... are the "coke as a mixer" folks among those who use "coke" to mean any flavored sweetened carbonated beverage, including the lemon-lime sort? I think mixing wine with a lemon-lime _soda or pop_ is just great in summer (a wine cooler) and I'm hoping we're just having a miscommunication?
> Rum and Coke (♪ the real thing ♪...) was very popular in Carribean tourist traps. I like that, too.


 
Yes, you can add lemon-lime instead pop, but it's better if you add:

Wine, a little bit lemon (or orange, lima is too acid), a little bit pop, little peach and apple pieces... it's delicious (and very refreshing)

Alundra.


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## BasedowLives

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Ummmm ... are the "coke as a mixer" folks among those who use "coke" to mean any flavored sweetened carbonated beverage, including the lemon-lime sort?



i was wondering that too...

i would assume that it meant coke as in Coca Cola.  I never call sprite "coke".  It's a southern thing i think.  check this graph http://www.popvssoda.com/


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## Alundra

BasedowLives said:
			
		

> i was wondering that too...
> 
> i would assume that it meant coke as in Coca Cola. I never call sprite "coke". It's a southern thing i think. check this graph http://www.popvssoda.com/


 
I'm not sure, but I think the Coca-Cola patent (a patent is as long as a hundred of year) finished a several years ago. It means whichever can to take its name.

Then, the enterprise decided to change the Coca-Cola name for Coke. They began with an advertising campaign many years before of the end (patent)

About pop and soda.... I have no idea....

But... it's an old reportage I watched long ago... I don't know if it's wholly true.

Alundra.


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## GenJen54

Originally posted by *Alundra*I'm not sure, but I think the Coca-Cola patent (a patent is as long as a hundred of year) finished a several years ago. It means whichever can to take its name.[/b]

I'm not certain what you mean here.  The name "Coca-Cola" is a trademarked and copyrighted name.  Others cannot take it. 

What Basedowlives is referring to is that in some parts of the United States (the south, in particular), people use the word "coke" to refer to "soda" or "pop" in general. 
In other parts of the US, people use the word "soda" or "pop" to describe sugary carbonated beverage, regardless of its brand or flavor. 

I have known people to add carbonated beverages, such as 7-UP or Sprite, to white wine, and some people add Club Soda (flavorless carbonated water) to white wine.  These are called "wine spritzers."  I have not heard of this use with red wine, however.


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## panjandrum

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> These are called "wine spritzers." I have not heard of this use with red wine, however.


I have somewhat confused memories of drinking rotspritzers in a small bar in Vienna.  "Friends" told me, later, that to compensate for the diluting effect of the "flavorless carbonated water" added to the red wine, a generous measure of brandy was also added


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## Alundra

GenJen54 said:
			
		

> I'm not certain what you mean here. The name "Coca-Cola" is a trademarked and copyrighted name. Others cannot take it.


 
Well, I think the trademarks or copyrighted names are the same that "patentar" in spanish.... (I'm not quite sure, Who knows about "patentes"??

In that old reportage on TV, they said that copyrights remain ( I don't know how to say this... ) for a hundred of years. Afterwards, these rights disappear. Then, the enterprise, decided to change the name.

I realize in Coca-cola tin (Is it said so???), this word has been replaced for Coke. Don't you?

Anyway.... I'm not sure.... 

Alundra.


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## GenJen54

> Originally posted by *Alundra*In that old reportage on TV, they said that copyrights remain ( I don't know how to say this... ) for a hundred of years. Afterwards, these rights disappear.


This is not necessarily true. The formula for Coca-Cola is considered a "trade secret," which means that it is not registered with the USPTO (U.S. Patent & Trademark Office), a public institution. Since it is a trade secret, its formula will remain strictly with the Coca-Cola company. (see below) 

_Probably the most cited example of a trade secret is the recipe for Coca-Cola. If the formula for Coca-Cola had been patented, another manufacturer could have obtained a copy of the patent and modified the formula slightly, without a great deal of work. Moreover, the protection offered by a U.S. patent would have expired after 17 years from patent issuance (the patent life at the time). After the patent's expiration date, any competitor could have used the recipe and, by offering a lower price, could have cut into Coca-Cola's market share. _

Bottles of regular "Coca-Cola" in the US still carry "Coca-Cola" on the bottle label.  Coca-Cola tried to re-formulate their product and carry it under the name of "New Coke" in the 1980s (?), but it flopped, and they reverted to the original formula, which for a while was called "Coca-Cola original."  Now, I believe, it's still just plain old "Coca-Cola."


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## Alundra

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


 Thanks... 

Here, I'm always learning, jeejeje

Alundra.


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## rob.returns

* Here in our country we mix coke with gin, and any drinks that we come up.

The effect I think would be that it fastens the pace of bloodflow of alcohol from different parts of your body. It makes you become drunk more easily. Coke is caffeine thats why.

Once we were climbing up the mountains(adventure) back in college days...we ran out of drinks. Guess what! We came up with this drink that is compose of: alcohol(not the drink but the disinfectant), chilli and pepperonis, and water(its very cold in the mountains). Mix it all together and we have our drink.


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## astronauta

Yes, I think wines are associated with older crowds and fizzy-ultra-sweet ones with youngsters.

One reason could be price; but I think it's a mix of flavour, marketing and dynamics.
Most younger adults are interested in partying, getting drunk as fast as possible, drinking exciting flavours and whatever's fashionable.

Developing a palate and a taste for wine may take years, patience and $$$.

I started to like wines since my mid-twenties, but I am a bit of a nerd 

Rob, the drink you describe sounds simply ghastly, ughhhhhhhhhhh.


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## rob.returns

astronauta vegetariana said:
			
		

> Rob, the drink you describe sounds simply ghastly, ughhhhhhhhhhh.


 
Yah, those crazy days, you know how are people when theyre in college...Pardon my post, we can go back to wines again.


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## Eugens

There is something about trade secrets I do not understand. I have been reading about the Coca-Cola's case in Wikipedia. Apparently, Coca-Cola's formula has a "secret ingredient" and apparently only the owners of the company know what it is. So, I think I have either read myths/wrong/incomplete information or misunderstood something.

If what I read is true, how is it possible and legal that consumers do not know the name of every single substance they put inside their bodies? And how is it possible that organizations that control foods and drugs (like the FDA) do not know exactly how a drink that is on the market is made? What if a consumer is allergic to the secret ingredient and he drinks a Coke without knowing he is drinking the substance he is allergic to? Coke must be totally innocuous then, since I have never heard of such a case, taking into account the huge number of consumers it has all over the world.

Doubtless, I must have been reading only myths.


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## astronauta

I am not sure of dates, but cocacola used to contain minimal amounts of opiates, then after a law was passed these opiates were removed and the ingredient list is now disclosed, their only secret now is the amount of each ingredient and process.


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## Eugens

Thanks astronauta vegetariana.  That makes sense!


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## mari.kit

hi all:
i believe that red wine is not only for old people.. I mean, like 50-70, or something. In one occasion me and my friends had red and white wine.. (btw, im 26 and so with my friends, is that old enough  ) And red wine is considered table wine right? 

and by the way, speaking of coke mixing with wine, i already tried coke that was mixed with brandy.. well, in all fairness, its tasted ok..


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