# Inflected adverbs: hele / erge



## CapnPrep

I would like to revive an earlier discussion about adverbs taking the _e_-ending when accompanying an inflected adjective, as in *een hele grote auto*.

Is it possible (in informal speech) to have an inflected adverb like *hele* or *erge* before an uninflected adjective? I am thinking of long adjectives that can remain uninflected for euphony (ANS §6.4.1.3, points 4–5).(1) a. _het hele/erge onbegrijpelijke verhaal _
b._ het hele/erge onbegrijpelijk verhaal
_(2) a. _een hele/erge voortreffelijkere dokter_
     b. _een hele/erge voortreffelijker dokter_ ​If the (a) sentences are OK (the examples may need adjusting), are the (b) sentences also OK? Or maybe they are all bad.


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## HKK

1. Het (heel/erg/heel erg) onbegrijpelijke verhaal.
_Heel/erg_ don't get an -e because they aren't connected to _verhaal _but to _onbegrijpelijke_. As adverbs, they don't have the '_buigings-e_'.
I have to tell you this isn't a very natural sounding example because something is usually either _begrijpelijk _or _onbegrijpelijk_, not _erg onbegrijpelijk_.

The examples in 2. are logically impossible. It translates to French as
_Un médecin très plus excellent.

_If you want to say the doctor is much better (actually _voortreffelijk_ is another one of these either-or-not words), try this:
_De veel betere dokter_.


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## optimistique

Hi,

Your examples are indeed not so well chosen, you wouldn't say "het hele onbegrijpelijke verhaal", because something is normally not "heel" but rather "erg/zeer/heel erg onbegrijpelijk". Also, "erg" never gets an "e", unless it is the adjective, meaning "terrible". 

What you're referring to are sentences like "een hele grote taart". The answer to your question is simple: no! You can't say, for example, "een hele groot huis", only: "een *heel groot* huis". 

With respect to your example, the usage of forms like "het onbegrijpelijk verhaal" is very rare and I dare say old-fashioned and archaic, so they don't appear in spoken language. Let's say they did, then still I would not expect an "-e", because there would be no inflection-e in the adjective, and the adverb only gets the inflection-e because it is mistakenly treated as an adjective too, and takes the same inflection as the adjective it belongs to. _
So briefly, no "-e" on the adjective, than never an "-e" on the adverb either!!_




CapnPrep said:


> I would like to revive an earlier discussion about adverbs taking the _e_-ending when accompanying an inflected adjective, as in *een hele grote auto*.
> 
> Is it possible (in informal speech) to have an inflected adverb like *hele* or *erge* before an uninflected adjective? I am thinking of long adjectives that can remain uninflected for euphony (ANS §6.4.1.3, points 4–5).(1) a. _het hele/erge onbegrijpelijke verhaal _
> b._ het hele/erge onbegrijpelijk verhaal
> _(2) a. _een hele/erge voortreffelijkere dokter_
> b. _een hele/erge voortreffelijker dokter_ ​If the (a) sentences are OK (the examples may need adjusting), are the (b) sentences also OK? Or maybe they are all bad.


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## CapnPrep

optimistique said:


> _
> So briefly, no "-e" on the adjective, than never an "-e" on the adverb either!!_


Great! That is exactly what I was trying to find out. Thanks for your answer.


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## CapnPrep

Hello again, let me try again with a simpler adjective: *open
*Do these two examples have the same status for you?
een hele open sfeer
een hele open klimaat​(In both cases with "hele" modifying "open", not the noun)

Thanks!


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## ablativ

CapnPrep said:


> een hele open klimaat​


 

I doubt if this is correct !

P.S.: I am sure it isn't because it it *het *klimaat combined with *een*.


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## Joannes

CapnPrep said:


> Hello again, let me try again with a simpler adjective: *open*
> 
> 
> 
> Do these two examples have the same status for you?een hele open sfeer​een hele open klimaat​(In both cases with "hele" modifying "open", not the noun)
> 
> Thanks!


 
Hi,

Good question. The second one is definitely ungrammatical, the first one would be ok, I'd say. You can never be wrong by not inflecting adverbs though, so that's what I would advise learners to (not) do.


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## ablativ

optimistique said:


> ..., you wouldn't say "het hele onbegrijpelijke verhaal", ...
> 
> What about "He told me *the whole unimaginable story*, (not only part of it)"?


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## Joannes

ablativ said:


> optimistique said:
> 
> 
> 
> ..., you wouldn't say "het hele onbegrijpelijke verhaal", ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about "He told me *the whole unimaginable story*, (not only part of it)"?
Click to expand...

Yes, that would work of course, although the Nederlandse Taalunie advises to put a comma between the adjectives in that case, to avoid ambiguity. (Two links.)


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## CapnPrep

Hello, everyone. I neglected to ask my follow-up question: does switching to the definite article make a difference? (Again, only in the interpretation where _hele_ does not modify the noun directly.)de hele open sfeer
het hele open klimaat​Does the _klimaat_ example sound better now?


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## optimistique

Hi CapnPrep,

Yes, these are good examples. No, it doesn't make a difference. Though 'open' is not inflected, 'heel' is, just as if it were an adjective. Also neuter or not, that makes no difference in the definite forms.


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## GiGi.be

CapnPrep said:


> Hello, everyone. I neglected to ask my follow-up question: does switching to the definite article make a difference? (Again, only in the interpretation where _hele_ does not modify the noun directly.)de hele open sfeer​
> het hele open klimaat​Does the _klimaat_ example sound better now?


 
Technically, both examples are incorrect, or weird at best. The e-ending can only appear after adjectives, not adverbs.

* The adjective _heel, hele_ means 'whole, complete'.
* The adverb _heel_ means 'very'.
 
Hence, what you need is the adverb _heel_, which refers to the adjective _open:_
 
*_ "de heel open sfeer"_ = the very open atmosphere_,_
* _"het heel open klimaat" _= the very open climate_._

In your examples, _hele_ is an adjective modifying the nouns. You would probably insert a comma to avoid any confusion:

* _"de hele open __sfeer"_ = the complete open atmosphere,
*_ "het hele open klimaat" = _the complete open climate.
 
That's the grammar behind it, but admittedly, many native speakers make the same mistake.


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