# What in fact means doctor?



## jana.bo99

Hello to all,

In some countries people call their doctor for medicine: doctor!

In more countries, they call different: 

German: Der Arzt!
Slovenian: Zdravnik! (zdravje = health)
Croatian: Liječnik! (liječiti = cure, heal)
French: Medecin!
Spanish: Medico!
Italian: Medico!

In Slovenia, half of people say: I am going to Doctor; half, I am going to Zdravnik.

Doctor is title: DR of Chemy; DR of Sociology; ect.

I want to know and ask here all, where is origin of the word: 
DOCTOR!
And what in fact that means?

Thank you!


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## robbie_SWE

Apparently the Romanian word for it (it's as simple as *doctor*) comes from Latin _doctor_, which comes from Greek _δο__ϰ__τορι__ϰ__ά _(doktoriká). In Romanian it is also usual to say *medic*.

In Swedish it's *läkare*; it might come from the verb "_att läka_" = to heal.

Hope this helped!

 robbie


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## Outsider

In English, there is also the word "medic", and the old-fashioned word "physician", but these are rarely used. I suppose that "doctor" is simply a shortening of "doctor of Medicine".

In Portuguese, both words are widely used, *médico/a* and *doutor(a)*. _Físico_ is old-fashioned, like in English.

For healers who use popular medicine, there is *curandeiro/a*, from the word _cura_ (healing).

P.S. Here's the Online Etymology Dictionary's entry on "doctor". And here's the one for "medic" -- I didn't know it was only used for military doctors, nowadays!


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## Flaminius

*Japanese:*

There are two general words meaning "doctor":
医師 (_ishi_) — This is the official name of the status and the official title for someone with the qualification.
医者 (_isha_) — This is a more casual word.  When someone says in English, "I have to see a doctor," this is the Japanese equivalent.

None of the two is used as appellation for a doctor.  One uses 先生 (_sensē_ or _sensei_), which has been a title for those with social distinction.  As a general noun, it means a teacher.


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## Athaulf

jana.bo99 said:


> In some countries people call their doctor for medicine: doctor!
> 
> In more countries, they call different:
> 
> German: Der Arzt!
> Slovenian: Zdravnik! (zdravje = health)
> * Croatian: Liječnik! (liječiti = cure, heal)
> *[...]



In Croatian, _liječnik_ is indeed the preferred word in formal usage, but _doktor_ is used very frequently in the spoken language.


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## Athaulf

Outsider said:


> In English, there is also the word "medic", and the old-fashioned word "physician", but these are rarely used.


 
I wouldn't say that _physician_ is used rarely in modern English. Of course, it is a fairly high-brow word that you wouldn't use much in the spoken language, but I'm seeing it in writing all the time. In fact, I'd say that it's the standard word for a doctor of medicine in any sort of formal writing.



jana.bo99 said:


> Doctor is title: DR of Chemy; DR of Sociology; ect.
> 
> I want to know and ask here all, where is origin of the word:
> DOCTOR!
> And what in fact that means?


 
As Outsider has already noted, in this case, "doctor" is just a shortening of the title "Doctor of Medicine". Out of all professions in which one can obtain the title of a doctor, most people regularly deal only with doctors of medicine. Therefore, it's understandable that in many languages, the title "doctor" has become associated with medicine in everyday speech.

Other posters have already written about the etymology of the word "doctor". The title itself has a complicated history, and its exact meaning and the requirements necessary to achieve it vary significantly across different countries and professions.


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## Frank06

Hi,

The history of the word 'doctor' has already been made clear. 
However, in Dutch we have the word *dokter*, which clearly comes from *doctor*. A *dokter* is a 'doctor of medicine'. 
The word *arts* is also often used. (Notice the difference with German Ar*z*t.)

Arts/Arzt: OHG arzât, MHG arzât, arzet; MDu aersatre, aersater, ersater, ersetre < MLat archiater < Gr. αρχιατρος.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## Fray Luis

jana.bo99 said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> In some countries people call their doctor for medicine: doctor!
> 
> In more countries, they call different:
> 
> German: Der Arzt!
> Slovenian: Zdravnik! (zdravje = health)
> Croatian: Liječnik! (liječiti = cure, heal)
> French: Medecin!
> Spanish: Medico!
> Italian: Medico!
> 
> In Slovenia, half of people say: I am going to Doctor; half, I am going to Zdravnik.
> 
> Doctor is title: DR of Chemy; DR of Sociology; ect.
> 
> I want to know and ask here all, where is origin of the word:
> DOCTOR!
> And what in fact that means?
> 
> Thank you!


 

In Spanish, although the most usual word is médico, we also have doctor, and is the one we mostly when addressing a physician. "¡Médico!" would actually sound weird.


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## ThomasK

In Dutch there are some old words :
 - geneesheer (a gentleman - so I guess - who cures)
 - heelmeester (old, but meaning a master in healing people)


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## apmoy70

@robbie_SWE
I think you're wrong. The Latin _doctor_, comes from the Greek _Διδάκτωρ/Didaktor_


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## OBrasilo

- jana.bo99: Actually, Italian also has _dottore_, which is used way more commonly, that _medico_. The word _medico_ is actually very formal, so it's not that commonly used in casual speech.


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## Flaminius

According to etymonline, doctor is from Latin verb docere (to show, to teach) and originally meant "teacher."


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## jana.bo99

Hi Fray Luis,

When I was in South Spain, they told me I have to go to: MEDICO! I had also: mi MEDICA.

There are some countries where people have beside the name: DR. As I have some problems with ATN, I am always asking what kind of DR they are?
That happens in tourism, where you have check all guests. So I can see their title. 

jana.bo


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## jana.bo99

Hi OBrasilo,

Thank you for: dottore. 

It is strange: we say once "doktor", other time "zdravnik" or "liječnik". 
It is much easier to say: doctor!

From other side nobody says for DR of Chemistry or Law: Mr Doctor!

jana.bo


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## Fred_C

apmoy70 said:


> @robbie_SWE
> I think you're wrong. The Latin _doctor_, comes from the Greek _Διδάκτωρ/Didaktor_


This is wrong.
Doctor is a cognate of Διδάκτωρ, not a descendant of it.
Doctor means "teacher", because "docere" means "to teach".
Docere is a cognate of Διδάσκω.


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## Kanes

Bulgarian: лекар (lekar)


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## Alijsh

In Persian we have doktor but it certainly derives from the title used for anybody having doctorate. 

The native (and specific) Persian word is pezešk from Pahlavi bizešk (its Parthian: bēšāzag) from Old Iranian root biš-az (cure); attested Indo-European root: bhə-s (to cure thru speech). bizešk/bēšāzag literally means "curer"; quite meaningful.


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## ThomasK

This is intriging: curing through speech ? Is this magic, or enchantment, hypnosis, ... ? Give me one more hint and I suggest a new thread !
*
Moderator Note:
Discussions about the Russian word for doctor (врач) has been moved here.*


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## Sepia

Alijsh said:


> In Persian we have doktor but it certainly derives from the title used for anybody having doctorate.
> 
> ....


 
Same thing in German. "Doktor" is not equivalent with "Arzt". (Of all the doctors I know, not a single one of them is a medic. And the GP I rarely go to is no doctor.)


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## Dekka

In france both words do exist:

- Médecin
- Docteur

I have to say that we currently and commonly use the second one to designate the people who treat you when you are seek. 
You can say: "je dois aller chez le médecin" (I've to go to the doctor) but you will say "Le docteur m'a donné des médicaments" (The doctor gave me medecines)...

May be we are used to make a difference between the function "médecin", and the people "docteur"...


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## Corsicum

jana.bo99 said:


> where is origin of the word DOCTOR!
> And what in fact that means?


For Latin : Origin of the word is : “doctor means a teacher” - cf Flaminius
Corsican (and probably for Italian) : 
*duttore, dottore* : Also church meaning
The Doctor of the church interprets the sacred books of the church: The doctors of the law. 
Synonyms: scientist, physician, theologian, doctor
From Latin : doctore(m) : A teacher, who teaches


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## Darina

robbie_SWE said:


> In Swedish it's *läkare*; it might come from the verb "_att läka_" = to heal.
> 
> Hope this helped!
> 
> robbie


 
Very interesting! In Bulgarian it is "lekar";
"lekuvam"-"to heal, to cure";
"lek"-"remedy, medicine".


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## ThomasK

This seems strange to me. Isn't Swedish North Germanic ? Bulgarian is not, is it ??? or has the word been adopted by one or other language ? Even in Finnish it is lääka, I have just found out. The root is supposed to be Germanic or even proto-Germanic: *"Proto-Germanic:* *lika-, *likan-, *lakjan- etc. *Meaning:* leak. ("http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/et...=/data/alt/altet&text_number=++29&root=config). 

Still: a link between leak(age) and medicine ???


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## Kanes

Yea it is strange, especially with Bulgarian as there has been almost no historical conection between us and Scandinavia or Germanic nations in general. With Finnland is understandable as they were one country with Sweeden once but Bulgaria... If you think the word is conected to 'leak' then how you say leak in Sweeden or Finnland? The Bulgarian word for 'leak' is not conected.  Hehe leaking becomes kinda becomes medical if its blood that is leaking =D

I think it maybe accidental or if it came from Fino-Ugric there maybe connection with us in ancient time due to heavy interaction with them... but very very unlikely.


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## OBrasilo

- ThomasK: Bulgarian is Slavic, and both Slavic, and Germanic, are branches of Indo-European. So I assume, that the Proto-Indo-European root was _*lekh-_, which meant _to leak_, and I think, that the English word, _to leak_, is itself a descendant of that Proto-Indo-European root.


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## Darina

Kanes said:


> The Bulgarian word for 'leak' is not conected.


 
Have you thought of "leya"-"to spill, to shed" (blood, for example)?
Actually, I think the root "lek-"-"to heal" is found in all Slavic languages so there is no surprize. 
OBrasilo is completely right about the Indo-European languages. But what I find amazing is the use of the words "lekar" and "läkare" in Bulgarian and Swedish, resp. Same root, same suffix. By the way, they are other similarities between Swedish and Bulgarian. For example, the definite articles come after the words and they are attached to them. Sorry for the offtopic!


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## Athaulf

There are some very interesting observations here, but don't forget that whenever relatively distantly related languages have such similar words, one should always be cautious about false cognates and historically recent borrowings. So, I consulted the dictionaries, and the last few posts are indeed oversimplifying the issue. 

There are actually two separate Proto-Germanic roots here. The first one is the origin of English _leech_, which used to mean "physician" centuries ago, and Swedish _läka_, among others. The second, different one is the ancestor of English _leak_. Therefore, these two words aren't related, even though they sound very similar in modern English (and their surviving cognates in other Germanic languages too). See also the etymonline.com entries for _leech_ and _leak_, which confirm the etymologies given at rinet.ru, except that they list a somewhat different form of the Proto-Germanic roots.

Now, as for the Slavic connection, according to the above cited entries, it seems like these Germanic roots don't have an uncontroversial Indo-European etymology reaching further back. Thus, the connection of _leech_/_läka_/etc. with Bulgarian _lekar_ and the other similar Slavic words may or may not be due to a common Proto-IE root. It might also be due to accident or later borrowing. According to this author from the University of Helsinki, the root *_lěkъ_ "medicine" was borrowed into Proto-Slavic from Gothic. Overall, the connection between these Germanic and Slavic roots seems to be a controversial issue.


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## ThomasK

_(Thanks for the 'warning' about cognates, Althauf, I know there is something dangerous about wishful thinking in etymology)_ 

I now think of something : *bloodletting* was the main technique in the Middle Ages, which reminds me of what a leech does (the blood-sucking worm, I mean) ---- and which reminds my alter ego, the wishful one, also of leaks (you cannot let blood without causing a leak, can you ?). 

_(But I am trying to silence that guy, who is seeing resemblances everywhere (...) and consequently thinks there is some link...)_


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## robbie_SWE

ThomasK said:


> This seems strange to me. Isn't Swedish North Germanic ? Bulgarian is not, is it ??? or has the word been adopted by one or other language ? Even in Finnish it is lääka, I have just found out. The root is supposed to be Germanic or even proto-Germanic: *"Proto-Germanic:* *lika-, *likan-, *lakjan- etc. *Meaning:* leak. ("http://starling.rinet.ru/cgi-bin/et...=/data/alt/altet&text_number=++29&root=config).
> 
> Still: a link between leak(age) and medicine ???


 
I believe that Athaulf's explanation kind of says it all. 



Kanes said:


> Yea it is strange, especially with Bulgarian as there has been almost no historical conection between us and scandinavia or germanic nations in general. With Finnland is understandable as they were one country with Sweeden once but Bulgaria... If you think the word is conected to 'leak' then how you say leak in Sweeden or Finnland? The Bulgarian word for 'leak' is not conected. Hehe leaking becomes kinda becomes medical if its blood that is leaking =D
> 
> I think it maybe accidental or if it came from Fino-ugric there maybe connection with us in ancient time due to heavy interaction with them... but very very unlikely.


 
The Swedish word for "to leak" is *att läcka*, so it might be the root of several words. 

 robbie


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## Aoyama

To go back to the original point :
-"doctor" is here short for "doctor of/in medecine"
- doctor = man of learning (as in French "docte" =wise, learned)
- the same meaning can be found in Hebrew with the word "rabbi" or "rav" (man of learning, "doctor" of the law), _Rofé_ = "medical" doctor in Hebrew
- médecin is common in French for "docteur" (aller chez le médecin/docteur), one will notice the difference between : médecin, médecine and médicament in French
- as for Japanese : _isha_ and _ishi_ (*i *-*yi* in Chinese- being the word for medecine/medical) are _titles_ for medical practitioners, _sensei _being a general title, for teachers, doctors (of any kind), coaches etc. _Igaku hakase _being "doctor in medecine" (not always synonymous, a "ishi" or "isha" may not be a "igaku hakase" because of thesis or examination requirements
- in Chinese, the word "xian sheng" (=sen sei = literally, the one born before, the elder)is used the same way the Japanese do. Doctor will be "*yi fu*" or "yi sheng".


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## Athaulf

ThomasK said:


> I now think of something : *bloodletting* was the main technique in the Middle Ages, which reminds me of what a leech does (the blood-sucking worm, I mean) ---- and which reminds my alter ego, the wishful one, also of leaks (you cannot let blood without causing a leak, can you ?).
> 
> _(But I am trying to silence that guy, who is seeing resemblances everywhere (...) and consequently thinks there is some link...)_



Well, here's some info that should help you exorcise him.  Check out this entry at etymonline.com for an example of a word derived from the same root as "leak". If the noun "leech" had the same root, it would be spelled with _-ea-_, not _-ee-_ in the middle. Even though the vowel in "leech" and "leak" is the same nowadays, they used to be different before the Great Vowel Shift (hence so many English words with that vowel whose spelling is unpredictable).


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## ThomasK

I agree - and even my alter ego does. But you simply understand that you feel inclined towards that kind of conclusion, if you do not take that phonological information into account. 

The most interesting observation for me was the link between leech (doctor & worm) and the blood-letting...


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## Athaulf

ThomasK said:


> The most interesting observation for me was the link between leech (doctor & worm) and the blood-letting...



If we are to trust etymonline.com, even the link between the different meanings of "leech" (bloodsucking worm vs. archaic "physician") is more complex than it might seem at first.  Their entry says that "the O.E. forms suggest a distinct word [for leech (1)], which has been assimilated to leech (2) by folk etymology". Unfortunately, they don't provide any further details.


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## aceguy1

Dekka said:


> In france both words do exist:
> 
> - Médecin
> - Docteur
> 
> I have to say that we currently and commonly use the second one to designate the people who treat you when you are seek.
> You can say: "je dois aller chez le médecin" (I've to go to the doctor) but you will say "Le docteur m'a donné des médicaments" (The doctor gave me medecines)...
> 
> May be we are used to make a difference between the function "médecin", and the people "docteur"...


 
They both do mean docter.


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## Corsicum

aceguy1 said:


> They both do mean docter.


En France Juridiquement et administrativement:
Un médecin est un *docteur en médecine, *il *prescrit* des médicaments. 
Un pharmacien est un *docteur en pharmacie, *il *délivre* des médicaments.

Médecin => Docteur en médecine => prescrit, prescription (Prescription)
Pharmacien => Docteur en pharmacie => délivre, dispensation(Delivery)
«Le docteur» is for children speaking


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## aceguy1

Corsicum said:


> En France Juridiquement et administrativement:
> Un médecin est un *docteur en médecine, *il *prescrit* des médicaments.
> Un pharmacien est un *docteur en pharmacie, *il *délivre* des médicaments.
> 
> Médecin => Docteur en médecine => prescrit, prescription (Prescription)
> Pharmacien => Docteur en pharmacie => délivre, dispensation(Delivery)
> «Le docteur» is for children speaking


 
I know that. I speak French too you know. And I forgot. And I was talking about *médecine.*


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## Lugubert

Parallels abound.

A Swedish "doktor" is used for physicians, and for people who have a doctoral degree, irrespectively of faculty.

A Swedish "läkare" is a physician who graduated from a recognised university school of medicine. A doctoral degree is neither needed nor excluded for that label.

To aceguy 1:
Those who deliver drugs in a pharmacy don't have to hold a full doctorate. We have an intermediate level, between, say, B.A. or M.A., and Ph.D. Those who manage a pharmaceutical Ph.D. are normally swiftly and efficiently absorbed by the pharmaceutical industry.


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## ThomasK

But the funniest stories are about the nicknames... I came across a 'kakadoris' (a market - yeller selling 'bad gifts' (I translate from Greek). But there must be more, even in Swedish ! ;-)


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