# ワンピースの３３巻を貸してくれない?



## Bronn

Hi all. The following is an example sentenc for the 巻 counter from Tofugu website:

ワンピースの３３巻を貸してくれない？, which they translate as: 'Can you lend me the thirty-third volume of One Piece?'.

It seems to me that the sentence actually means: 'Can you lend me thirty-three volumes of One Piece?' and that 'Can you lend me the thirty-third volume of One Piece?' would need an extra 目 ( ワンピースの３３巻目を貸してくれない？). Am I missing something here?

Thank you.


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## citrustree

Hi,

"ワンピースの３３巻を貸してくれない？" would usually be translated as "Can you lend me the thirty-third volume of One Piece?". I believe that's how most other Japanese would interpret it.

However, in my opinion, it is not impossible to translate it as "Can you lend me thirty-three volumes of One Piece?". It would be unusual, though.

If you say, for example, "ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない？", then it clearly means "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?".

The version you suggested, "ワンピースの３３巻*目*を貸してくれない？" sounds good and natural. The meaning is also clear.

Alternatively, you could say, "ワンピースの*第*３３巻を貸してくれない？". This also clearly says "the thirty-third volume".


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## Bronn

Hi Citrustree, I'm really sorry it took me so long to reply. I was busy but I should have replied anyway.

Thanks for the detailed explanation, I appreciate it.


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## kanadaaa

citrustree said:


> in my opinion, it is not impossible to translate it as "Can you lend me thirty-three volumes of One Piece?"


I disagree with this.
You must say ワンピース*を*３３巻を貸してくれない if you want to mean that.


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## graysesame

How about this case? I happened to read this paragraph.
——————
数詞とそれに関わる「人／物」を表す言葉の関係には、
次の４形式がある。このうち、A形式が基本となる。
A　コーヒーを3杯飲んだ
B　3杯コーヒーを飲んだ
C　コーヒー3杯を飲んだ
D　3杯のコーヒーを飲んだ
——————
written in 日本語文法入門、吉川武時、page 47


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## kanadaaa

graysesame said:


> How about this case?
> (I) drank three cups of coffee.
> 
> 数詞とそれに関わる「人／物」を表す言葉の関係には、
> 次の４形式がある。このうち、A形式が基本となる。
> A　コーヒーを3杯飲んだ
> B　3杯コーヒーを飲んだ
> C　コーヒー3杯を飲んだ
> D　3杯のコーヒーを飲んだ


It's impossible to say コーヒーの3杯を飲んだ, just as you can't say ワンピースの３３巻を貸してくれない to mean "33 volumes of One Piece".


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## graysesame

Then, strictly speaking, コーヒーの3杯全部を飲んだ or ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない is not grammatically correct, is it?
(and I wonder if the placement of 全部 needs to be change. e.g. 本棚にある３３巻 のワンピース を全部貸してくれない？ )


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## kanadaaa

graysesame said:


> Then, strictly speaking, コーヒーの3杯全部を飲んだ or ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない is not grammatically correct, is it?


No, neither of them makes sense.

(Note: The second could be used in special contexts like you have multiple copies of the 33rd volume of One Piece and a friend of yours wants to borrow them all.)


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## Schokolade

citrustree said:


> If you say, for example, "ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない？", then it clearly means "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?".





graysesame said:


> ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない is not grammatically correct, is it?





kanadaaa said:


> No, neither of them makes sense.



??
@citrustree says ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない makes sense, while @kanadaaa says it doesn't make sense...

Then, what should we say to mean "Can you lend me *all of the thirty-three *volumes of One Piece?"

Do we_ always_ need to say something like ワンピースの*1巻から*33巻まで... etc?

Or maybe ワンピースの*全33巻*...  (though it might sound a bit too formal for casual conversation)


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## kanadaaa

Schokolade said:


> Then, what should we say to mean "Can you lend me *all of the thirty-three *volumes of One Piece?"


I think you’ve misunderstood something.
I’m saying ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない isn’t necessarily incorrect but can only mean “can you lend me all the *33rd* volumes of One Piece”.
I believe you have to say ワンピース*を*33巻全部貸してくれない if you want to say “can you lend me all the *33 *volumes of One Piece”.


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## Schokolade

?? But you said:



graysesame said:


> コーヒーの3杯全部を飲んだ or *ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない is not grammatically correct,* is it?





kanadaaa said:


> *No, neither of them makes sense.*



... adding that it could only mean that you have multiple copies of the 33rd volume and a friend wants to borrow them all.

So I thought:

@citrustree says ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない？ *clearly* means "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?"

but @kanadaaa says "ワンピースの３３巻*全部*を貸してくれない would mean "Can you lend me all the *33rd* volumes of One Piece” (← 第33巻を2冊とか3冊とか持っていて、それを全部貸してと言ってる), and *NOT* "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?", and therefore wouldn't make sense.

I thought you two had different opinions here, but was I not right?


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## kanadaaa

@Schokolade
See the context:


kanadaaa said:


> It's impossible to say コーヒーの3杯を飲んだ, just as you can't say ワンピースの３３巻を貸してくれない to mean "33 volumes of One Piece".


I meant neither of these makes sense *as “3 cups of coffee” nor “33 volumes of One Piece” *(although the second makes sense as “the 33rd volume of OP).
Along these lines I said ワンピースの33巻全部を貸してくれない can’t mean “all the 33 volumes of OP” but “all the 33rd volumes of OP”.


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## Schokolade

Soooo, as I wrote above, you're saying:

ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない means "Can you lend me all the *33rd* volumes of One Piece” (← 第33巻を2冊とか3冊とか持っていて、それを全部貸してと言ってる) and *NOT* "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?"

while @citrustree says it clearly means "Can you lend me *all of the* thirty-three volumes of One Piece?"


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## kanadaaa

@Schokolade
Yes, that’s right.
As a novice linguist I claim ワンピースの３３巻全部を貸してくれない may be _acceptable_ but not _grammatical_ to mean “all the 33 volumes”.
As @citrustree said the interpretation of the sentence as such is clearly marked, and “all the 33rd volumes” is the unmarked (iow, general) interpretation.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

It depends on the context: For example:

ヤホーオークション：『ワンピースの33巻』
              ほぼ新品、欠巻なし。一発落札価格　9900円

「君が例のワンピースの33巻を落札したんだってね。僕に貸してくれない？」

In this context, with 欠巻なし, we would know that it means "Volume 1 to 33".
Without 欠巻なし, it would mean either "Volume 1 to 33" or "Volume 33 only".


I agree with *kanadaaa* that ワンピース*を*33巻全部貸してくれない is better and to the point than ワンピースの33巻を全部貸してくれない.
However, I think the latter can be used by native Japanese speakers in their daily conversation, in their spoken Japanese.


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## kanadaaa

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> However, I think the latter can be used by native Japanese speakers in their daily conversation, in their spoken Japanese.


Right. In my point of view I’d say it is kind of a slip of the tongue, but the interpretation is made possible due to the speaker’s bias created by the special context at issue.
All in all, I believe it’s best for learners to recognize that interpreting ワンピースの33巻 as “33 volumes of OP” is not basic.
For those who want to learn “true grammar” would hate to consider this interpretation  because it can’t be deduced from descriptions in Japanese grammar books.


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