# я устал



## VelikiMag

In sentence _я устал_, is word _устал_ past tense of verb _устать_ or short form of adjective _усталый_? Or maybe without some context it could be both?


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## Natalisha

"Устал" is a verb. "Усталый" and "уставший" are adjectives.


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## VelikiMag

So then the literal translation would be _I got tired _and not _I am tired_?

If I say _Я вчера весь день копал и я устал_, does it mean:
_I was digging all day yesterday and I got tired_ _(yesterday, after the work done)_;
or it can mean_
I was digging all day yesterday and I am tired (today I am still tired because of that)_?


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## Natalisha

VelikiMag said:


> So then the literal translation would be _I got tired _and not _I am tired_?
> 
> If I say _Я вчера весь день копал и я устал_, does it mean:
> _I was digging all day yesterday and I got tired_ _(yesterday, after the work done)_;
> or it can mean_
> I was digging all day yesterday and I am tired (today I am still tired because of that)_?



If I wanted to say that I'm feeling tired, I would probably say 
_Я вчера весь день копал и сегодня чувствую себя уставшим/чувствую усталость._


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## VelikiMag

And if I make it more clear by saying _я сейчас очень устал, _doesn't it make it an adjective then? A predicate adjective, to be precise.


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## Sobakus

Yes, technically it does, and without a context it could be both, but at least I don't really distinguish between them. It's kind of like a transitional form between the -л participle being a participle and a verb to me. And I think it's only the case with this particular word. By the way, "Я вчера весь день копал и я устал" could equally mean you are tired right now, especially with two "я"s and some conjunction of cause (like поэтому). I guess when you put a second я there, it turns "устал" into more of an adjective(or a participle). I hope I don't sound too confused


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## Natalisha

Sobakus said:


> Yes, technically it does, and without a context it could be both, but at least I don't really distinguish between them.


Really? So you say "Я был устал", "Я буду устал"?


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## Sobakus

Natalisha said:


> Really? So you say "Я был устал", "Я буду устал"?



I don't, but to me they sound ok. Why can't you form a short adjective from усталый? Either way, it's not quite a short adjective in the case of "я копал и поэтому я устал", because to me it still carries the verb's semantics, it expresses your state of being tired and getting tired simultaneously(I am tired/I got tired). It's not really a participle either. In the case of "я копал и устал" it clearly is a verb though.


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## VelikiMag

Sobakus said:


> Yes, technically it does, and without a context it could be both, but at least I don't really distinguish between them. It's kind of like a transitional form between the -л participle being a participle and a verb to me. And I think it's only the case with this particular word. By the way, "Я вчера весь день копал и я устал" could equally mean you are tired right now, especially with two "я"s and some conjunction of cause (like поэтому). I guess when you put a second я there, it turns "устал" into more of an adjective(or a participle).





> I hope I don't sound too confused


Not at all! Cause that's exactly what I wanted to know. I know of course that I can make everything more clear if I say something like _я был очень усталым _or_ я всё ещё устал_, but I wanted to see how natives understand it if I leave it like I did. And like you said, this is probably the only case where it could be both, at least technically. I don't know why it came to me tonight to be honest, but I had to ask it here.
I believe we can see the difference only for plural. Having in mind that Google gives around 100,000 results for _они устали, _and only around 200 results for _они усталы_, it becomes obvious that people have "a verb" on their mind when they use that specific form. I always had an adjective though.


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## yoysl

Sobakus said:


> It's not really a participle either. In the case of "я копал и устал" it clearly is a verb though.


Historically -л verb forms are participles (they still are participles in Macedonian). In Russian these forms came to be past tense and replaced the other past tense forms, the aorist and the imperfect. But I wonder if устал has preserved some of its participial function, and that's устал seems like kind of a verb and an adjective?


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## Natalisha

Natalisha said:


> Really? So you say "Я был устал", "Я буду устал"?





Sobakus said:


> I don't, but to me they sound ok.


That's the core of the problem! Let's wait for other forum members.
It's really interesting to know what they think.


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## morzh

Sobakus said:


> Yes, technically it does, and without a context it could be both,



I think you are off on this one. "Устал" is a verb, past tense.

I don't think "усталый"/"уставший" has a short form.
I can imagine "устамши" used in low colloquial, though it is an adv. participle.

But ...I am trying to use "устал" as an adjective.....it is not really possible. Even if you try to mangle the language and force it...not possible.


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## Maroseika

Of course there is such a short form of усталый as устал. But I can hardly imagine how it might be used, because in the first turn it would associate with the verb. We need some very special context for such usage without ambiguity. 
Я был устал и пьян.
Она была устала и томна.

With other words though it can work better:
Твой подход поверхностен и отстал.


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## morzh

Практика - критерий истины 

Если форма чего-то существует, она применима.

Теоретически "победю" существует тоже.

Поэтому, если кто-то найдет легитимный пример применения кем-то "устал" как краткого прилагательного, я согалшусь.


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## Sobakus

You guys don't really understand my point. I'm not saying in this case it's a short adjective, like in Я был устал и пьян, but that it's a verb(or something inbetween a verb and an adjective) denoting a state rather than an action. I would translate "Я вчера копал и поэтому я устал" as "I was digging all day yesterday and I'm tired" by default. To me it's clearly different from "Я вчера копал и устал", where both копал and устал are verbs denoting past actions, which I would translate as "I was digging all day yesterday and I got tired". But maybe it's just me after all.
2*yoysl*: I was actually wondering the same thing.


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## morzh

Sobakus said:


> You guys don't really understand my point. I'm not saying in this case it's a short adjective, like in Я был устал и пьян, but that it's a verb(or something inbetween a verb and an adjective) denoting a state rather than an action. I would translate "Я вчера копал и поэтому я устал" as "I was digging all day yesterday and I'm tired" by default. To me it's clearly different from "Я вчера копал и устал", where both копал and устал are verbs denoting past actions, which I would translate as "I was digging all day yesterday and I got tired". But maybe it's just me after all.



To me they are the same as it is very clearly implied that "устал" is a result of "копал" despite the lack of the consequential "поэтому".

To elaborate further, "поэтому я устал", due to the nature of the verb, does not specify whether you were tired yesterday after digging, or you are still tired.

Я вчера копал и поэтому я устал - may be "I was doing some digging yesterday and I was tired" or "I was doing some digging yesterday and I am (still, from yesterday) tired".

So the two phrases you gave to me are exactly the same, as all the missing parts are implied, and then it is still ambiguous if the state of being tired still persists, or it was limited to yesterday.


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## Sobakus

All right, what about this:
-Ты чего такой грустный?
-Я просто устал.

You would translate it as "I'm just tired", wouldn't you? It clearly refers to a state imho.


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## morzh

Well, I never argued the point that "устал" is a verb describing a state. It does not interfere with the rest of what I said.


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## Maroseika

Sobakus said:


> All right, what about this:
> -Ты чего такой грустный?
> -Я просто устал.
> 
> You would translate it as "I'm just tired", wouldn't you? It clearly refers to a state imho.



One can translate it whatever he wants and likes, but I cannot imagine a Russian native who will understand it as an adjective. Of course, it refers to a state, but to a state as a result of the fatigue. Its sense has nothing to do with its grammatical form.


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## Natalisha

Sobakus said:


> All right, what about this:
> -Ты чего такой грустный?
> -Я просто устал.
> 
> You would translate it as "I'm just tired", wouldn't you? It clearly refers to a state imho.


I would translate it the same way, but my perception of the word is completely different! I surely perceive it as a *verb* which describes my state.


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