# У него



## CadLac

Hello - 
This is my first post here, so sorry if I am posting incorrectly!

Anyways, I decided to start teaching myself Russian! I know the general idea behind Russian grammar - genders, case systems, etc - but none of the actual grammar.  I came across the possessive form
У пего
У иеё
У них
Where I got confused though was when endings started changing:
У мальчикА ручка 
У мальчика пет ручкИ
У мальчикОВ вода
I capitalized the endings that confused me.  I'm sure these have to cases, and the third my guess is numerical, but as to any specifics - well, help would be appreciated!


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## gvozd

CadLac said:


> У мальчикА ручка
> У мальчика пет ручкИ
> У мальчикОВ вода




У (кого? - Genitive case) мальчик*а* ручка
У мальчика нет (чего? - Genitive case) ручк*и*
У (кого? - Genitive plural) мальчик*ов *вода.


Buddy, do you really want to learn Russian? You can't imagine what headache you'll get. Anyway, добро пожаловать на форум!


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## viesis

Welcome to the forum 

У мальчик*а* (Genitive singular)
У мальчик*ов* (Genitive plural) 
Нет ручк*и* (Genitive singular)

Good luck!


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## CadLac

Ahhhh thank you so much!

One question, why does ручка take the genative case in the negative, and not the... Positive/Affirmative? Haha

And yes, of course I want to learn Russian, who wouldn't! Haha


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## Maroseika

CadLac said:


> One question, why does ручка take the genative case in the negative, and not the... Positive/Affirmative?


Sometimes Accusative (with verbs). 
Why? Hard to say. Historical grammar is a tricky stuff.


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## rusita preciosa

CadLac said:


> One question, why does ручка take the genative case in the negative, and not the... Positive/Affirmative?


You should lean the terms in order to talk about grammar. Look up the names of cases - there is no "positive".
As far as why, I'm sure there is an etymological explanation that goes back to some protio-Slavic phenomena in the language, but how will that help you? Just memorize for now that 
У мальчика [есть] ручк*а* (sing. nom.)
У мальчика нет ручк*и* (sing. gen.)


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## LilianaB

The case changes: the negation often triggers the Genitive.


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## Syline

As for the Genitive case of "мальчика" and "мальчиков" that is because of the preposition "у", it always governs the Genitive.


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## Rayfarer

gvozd said:


> Buddy, do you really want to learn Russian? You can't imagine what headache you'll get. Anyway, добро пожаловать на форум!



Maybe this comment was all in good fun, but these forums are meant to help people learn Russian, not to discourage them.

I wish you the best of luck with your Russian endeavors!


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## LilianaB

I think you should definitely learn Russian: it is not that hard. Some other languages have fifteen cases, Georgian, I think. #9 What do you mean by that y always requires the Genitive. I think only in negation. In the affirmative it is the Accusative.


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## Syline

LilianaB said:


> #9 What do you mean by that y always requires the Genitive. I think only in negation. In the affirmative it is the Accusative.


Are you addressing me? My post is #8 and it has nothing to do with the "negation/affirmation rule". By the way, "у мальчика ручка" is affirmative and the case of "ручка" is Nominative.

What I meant is the noun governed by "у" is always in the Genitive case.


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## gvozd

CadLac said:


> One question, why does ручка take the genative case in the negative, and not the... Positive/Affirmative? Haha



Who told you that? Давайте обсудим достоинства этой (чего? - Genitive sungular) ручк*и. *Hoho


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## LilianaB

Hi, Syline. It is not the Nominative but the Accusative. у мальчика ручка - Acc. When the sentence changes to negation the Accusative becomes the Genitive.


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## gvozd

LilianaB said:


> It is not the Nominative but the Accusative. у мальчика ручка - Acc.



Accusative? У мальчика - Genitive. Ручка - Nominative. Полный нихт ферштейн.


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## LilianaB

Yes, you are right, it is the Nominative in this case but it changes into the Genitive in negation, anyhow.


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## morzh

gvozd said:


> Полный нихт ферштейн.



А у нас еще говорили "не бельме имсьiм".


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## LilianaB

The problem was that I was referring to the hand, and Syline was originally referring to the boy. A boy has a hand - requires the Accusative in most languages which have cases, at least the ones I know. Here it is the Nominative because it is really The hand belongs to the boy, so the hand is in the Nominative. The case changes, however, to the Genitive with negation.


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## rusita preciosa

LilianaB said:


> A boy has a hand - requires the Accusative in most languages which have cases, at least the ones I know.



I don't know about other languages you know, but in Russian it requires nominative.
There is no reason to confuse the OP.


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## Explorer41

Well...


CadLac said:


> I came across the possessive form
> У пегонего —  it is "он" in the Genitive case
> У иеёнеё — "она" taken in the Genitive case
> У них — "они" taken in the Genitive case
> Where I got confused though was when endings started changing:
> У мальчикА ручка   -- here "мальчик" (boy) is in the Genitive case
> У мальчика пет ручкИ -- here "ручка" (pen) is in the Genitive case
> У мальчикОВ вода -- here "мальчики" (boys) are in the Genitive case


Here the rest is very simple, really*. The particle "нет ..." (meaning "there is no ...") always requires the Genitive; and the preposition "у" (which has a great number of meanings and usages**, which are approximated by the English word "at", "at the site of", but here we deal with the grammar) always requires the Genitive too. That's all with it.

* well, the Russian system of cases and prepositions is complicated, just like the English or the French system of prepositions. But the rules for the examples you mentioned are very simple and exceptionless.

** you can find a good list of them here.


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## gvozd

LilianaB said:


> A boy has a hand - requires the Accusative in most languages which have cases



?Do you see the difference between?
1. Мальчик имеет ручку (Accusative) - mocking the English way of thinking
2. У мальчика есть ручка - the Russian way of thinking


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## morzh

gvozd said:


> ?Do you see the difference between?
> 1. Мальчик имеет ручку (Accusative) - mocking the English way of thinking
> 2. У мальчика есть ручка - the Russian way of thinking



Все гораздо хуже. Мальчик здесь имеет даже не ручку, а руку. Images, images.....

С другой стороньi, "у мальчика есть рука" тоже....странное сочетание.


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## gvozd

Да будет Вам ёрничать... Пишущая ручка у него, пишущая...


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## LilianaB

Yes, I know, it is most likely a pen in this context, although there is no context, the grammar however will be the same. I was thinking more about a diamond hand. у мальчика бриллиaнтовая ручка.


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## Explorer41

The context is clear — a grammar book. The meaning is clear as well — a pen.


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## JULLIA

Это здорово, что вы решили изучать русский язык. Мне кажется, что он не такой уж и трудный. Гораздо труднее японский или китайский.


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## LilianaB

Yes, and you can find many interesting things written in Russian, novels, poems, movie's, songs. The worse might be the beginnings.


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## CadLac

Sorry, when I said affirmative I was not referring to a case - I was referring to the meaning of the sentence (opposite of negative)

But thanks!! This cleared everything up.  It's the nuances that make a language haha


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