# Macedonian [and other Slavic languages]: -ka endings



## cr00mz

Hello 

I have a question about -ka endings on some words. I don't know if it only happens in Macedonian or not.
Some words I've seen/heard it in is:

Denes-ka
Ovde-ka
Onde-ka
Negde-ka

What does it mean? What is the difference between the word with and without it?


----------



## osemnais

afaik the meaning with and without -ка is the same and the -ка forms are just colloquial variants


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

This suffix also exists in standard Slovenian in the form of *-kaj*. It's classified as an intensifier, but it doesn't really change the meaning of the word in present-day Slovenian.

Some of the forms using this construction are archaic, but at least two are still common in contemporary Slovenian:

*semkaj* (*sem* = here [movement])

...and particularly:

*tukaj* (*tu* = here)

Note that this *-kaj* suffix is different from *kaj* as used in words such as *nekaj*, *malokaj*, *mnogokaj* and *marsikaj*, which are compounds containing the Slovenian interrogative *kaj* (= what), rather than the suffix *-kaj*.

(Source: Snoj's _Slovenski etimološki slovar_, SSKJ)


----------



## marco_2

It is interesting: my grandfather, who came from Eastern Galicia, used to say *tamkej *instead of standard Polish *tam *(=there). It was influence of some Ruthenian dialects, which had the forms *туткє / туткі *for _here._


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

marco_2 said:


> It is interesting: my grandfather, who came from Eastern Galicia, used to say *tamkej *instead of standard Polish *tam *(=there). It was influence of some Ruthenian dialects, which had the forms *туткє / туткі *for _here._



*Tamkaj* also exists in Slovenian, although it's now considered archaic.


----------



## marco_2

Sorry, it was my mistake, which I have already corrected - I meant "there", of course. And my grandfather said *tukej *(=here) as well.


----------



## cr00mz

Ok, thanks for the help.

I always thought it was the same, but wasn't really sure.


----------



## LilianaB

It is the same in Silesian, Marco. Kom tukej or puc tukej. Come here.  Tukej may just be an older form than tu - Polish.


----------



## iobyo

_Денеска_ is always an adverb and _денес_ almost always a noun (but sometimes also an adverb colloquially like _вечер_ ~ _вечерва_).

As an intensifier, as Triglav points out, it has also been used to form conjuctions from adverbs and similar (ex. _дека_ < *_где_ + _-ка_).


----------



## cr00mz

@iobyo

Do you mean that deneska is like večerva?


----------



## iobyo

cr00mz said:


> @iobyo
> 
> Do you mean that deneska is like večerva?



_Денес_ ('today') and _вечер_ ('evening') are technically nouns but in colloquial language they are also sometimes used as adverbs, i.e. in place of _денеска_ and _вечерва_, respectively.


----------



## DenisBiH

Is there any other Slavic language that also adds -na to the -ka ending? I'm thinking of BCS colloquial/slang _ovdjekana_/_ođekana/vođekana _etc. (for _ovdje _"here") and _tudikana _(for _tu _"there").


----------



## itreius

I've heard _totu*ka*_ (meaning _here_) in some Kajkavian dialects, though _totu_ is much more common.


----------



## marco_2

DenisBiH said:


> Is there any other Slavic language that also adds -na to the -ka ending? I'm thinking of BCS colloquial/slang _ovdjekana_/_ođekana/vođekana _etc. (for _ovdje _"here") and _tudikana _(for _tu _"there").



In some Polish dialects _kany _means "where", and people from these regions sometimes say _tam kany / kany tam _which means "over there, somewhere".


----------



## Vulcho

In Bulgarian dialects there were supposedly the forms _аз, азе, азка, азека, азекана_ (also _я, яз, язе, язка, язека, язекана_), all meaning "I". I personally have never heard any of these longer forms with _-ка_, and _-на_ endings live, but maybe in some remote villages they are still being used.


----------



## iobyo

Vulcho said:


> In Bulgarian dialects there were supposedly the forms _аз, азе, азка, азека, азекана_ (also _я, яз, язе, язка, язека, язекана_), all meaning "I". I personally have never heard any of these longer forms with _-ка_, and _-на_ endings live, but maybe in some remote villages they are still being used.



Some Macedonian dialects have _јаска_ (like in Bitola) and _јазека_ (in the east, I think). In Bitola almost only elderly women use it, but I'd say the latter form is a little more common in the dialects that have it, judging by a quick Google search.


----------



## LilianaB

In Silesian it is kay - where. Where do they say kany, Marco?


----------



## marco_2

Mainly in the mountains, although they also say *ka(j) *- I found the following: _No i *kany *sie ten Motylecek podziewo? *Ka *by sie nie podziewoł - dzisiok jego zdrowie pijemy..._


----------



## LilianaB

This is  from the Beskida Mountains, right? It is similar to Silesian.


----------



## marco_2

*Ka(j) *is spoken by highlanders in the Tatra Mountains and in other "mountainous" dialects, *kany *I found even in the texts from Kielce region, so it is popular all over the Lesser Poland (Małopolska), I don't know about other regions.


----------



## cr00mz

iobyo said:


> _Денес_ ('today') and _вечер_ ('evening') are technically nouns but in colloquial language they are also sometimes used as adverbs, i.e. in place of _денеска_ and _вечерва_, respectively.



Ok, that makes more sense, thanks for clearing up.


----------



## DenisBiH

Vulcho said:


> In Bulgarian dialects there were supposedly the forms _аз, азе, азка, азека, азекана_ (also _я, яз, язе, язка, язека, язекана_), all meaning "I". I personally have never heard any of these longer forms with _-ка_, and _-на_ endings live, but maybe in some remote villages they are still being used.



Thanks!  I always thought the -kana thing was some sort of colloquial comical "invention" limited to BCS area. Interesting to know that it exists (or existed) in Bulgarian as well.


----------



## francisgranada

Also in Slovak exists this phenomenon:

_dnes, sem, tu_ have the following colloquial/regional variants: _dneska, ňeskaj, semka, tuná_


----------



## Duya

So, the phenomenon seems widespread across Slavic area, and in most languages only as a regionalism/archaism?! I must admit I'm confused.


----------



## vianie

TriglavNationalPark said:


> *semkaj* (*sem* = here)[movement])



I know this form quite well from northwest Slovakia.



itreius said:


> I've heard _totu*ka*_ (meaning _here_) in some Kajkavian dialects, though _totu_ is much more common.



I guess tutokaj is a form of tuto from south-central Slovakia.



francisgranada said:


> Also in Slovak exists this phenomenon:
> _dnes, sem, tu_ have the following colloquial/regional variants: _dneska, ňeskaj, semka, tuná_



To widen the list I'm adding zajtraj (zajtra), čosikaj (čosi) and kdesikaj (kdesi), which ones may also a bit vary in pronounciation. In one way they evoke German adverb endings.


----------



## YKYPEH

I can think of one example in Russian, *туточки* (= тут / here), although it is highly colloquial and archaic. It looks like some endearment suffix to me.


----------



## cr00mz

Is it the same with dugačko?


----------



## iobyo

cr00mz said:


> Is it the same with dugačko?



_Dugačak_ simply means 'long' and is an extention of _dug_ with the suffix _-ak_ (Macedonian _-ок_; Common Slavic *_-ъkъ_).


----------



## cr00mz

Does applying "ač" to other words work? Like *short* is kratko, can you say kratačko?


----------



## vianie

In Slovak, *kratúčko* (from *krátko*) does work.


----------



## francisgranada

vianie said:


> In Slovak, *kratúčko* (from *krátko*) does work.



A good observation, really . We have also the adjective "_kratučký" _meaning approximately "very short".  I think also "_dĺhučký_" could work in some contexts ...

P.S.  I'm not sure if "_dĺhučký_" or "_dlhúčky" _should be the correct (standard) version, as the common pronounciation does not reflect these nuances unambiguosely (I find sometimes, that what we have learnt at school as "correct", is not not considered "correct" today ...).


----------



## vianie

Pardon, according to dictionary of Standard Slovak it is just kratučko (kratučký). My native pronounciation confused me.


----------



## vianie

> P.S. I'm not sure if "_dĺhučký" or "dlhúčky" should be the correct (standard) version, as the common pronounciation does not reflect these nuances unambiguosely (I find sometimes, that what we have learnt at school as "correct", is not not considered "correct" today ...)._



It would be odd to diminutive a word meaning "long".  So, it can only be extended into: dlhokánsky, dlhočizný, or archaically dlhánsky, dlžizný.


----------



## trosheniorasi

In Bulgarian-Torliakian ka is always used, otherwise it would sound extremely unnatural, you might not even be understood if you omit it! You would never say дънъс (d'n's), некде (nekde) it is always дънъска (d'n'ska), негдека (negdeka).


----------



## bibax

In colloquial Czech we have *-k, -ka, -ky, -kon* intensifiers:

dneska (dnes = today);
hnedka, hnedky (hned = immediately, promptly);
semka, semky (sem = here/to this here place);
teďka, teďkon (teď  = now);
...

In some (Moravian) regions the *-k* intensifier is commoner than in Common Czech:

tentok, tatok, totok (tento,... = this);
tadyk (tady = here);
kdysik, kdosik, cosik, ...

Some Moravian-Silesian dialects have also *-kaj*: henkaj, venkaj, ...;

From the Russian lessons in elementary school I remember the following Russian sentence:

"Пойду*ка* и я." (said Serjoža, from the novel "Serjoža", Věra Panova).
In dialectal Czech it would sound: Půjduk i já.

The Greek related particle is *-κεν*.


----------



## bibax

> Is it the same with dugačko?





> In Slovak, kratúčko (from krátko) does work.


Do not confuse the intensifier *-ka* with other suffixes like -ok, -ak, -ek (Common Slavic *-ъkъ), -ka (vodka, ...), -ko (jablčko, ...).


----------



## DenisBiH

bibax said:


> The Greek related particle is *-κεν*.



Wait, then this Slavic -ka goes all the way back to PIE?


----------



## Sobakus

DenisBiH said:


> Wait, then this Slavic -ka goes all the way back to PIE?



Sure: http://www.classes.ru/all-russian/russian-dictionary-Vasmer-term-4528.htm


----------



## swintok

In Western Ukraine and in Canada one often hears тутка, тамка, нинка (сьогодні).  Those are the only three words that I can think of having heard using that ending, though.


----------

