# Coger patatas: Comments on regional varieties



## Cecilio

The basic aim of the WR forums is to discuss words and linguistic related issues. Obviously, one of these issues is regional variation within a 'language'. Many threads have been opened to discuss these things, and they are usually quite interesting and enriching. However, it is also usual to find lots of comments of this kind in threads where they are not so relevant. One example. In peninsular Spanish we use the verb "coger" with a variety of meanings and it is an extremely common and basic verb. However, in countries like Argentina, it seems that the verb "coger" is only used with a sexual meaning, a meaning which is actually absent in Spain. The problem is that more than once I have writtten a sentence here using the verb "coger" in a 'normal' everyday way, and then I have been told by an Argentinian forero that I must "be careful" because that word means so and so in Argentina. Something similar happens with the words "patata" and "papa" in Spanish.

The problem is that these comments are repetitive and boring, and they don't make much sense unless the topic of linguistic variety is being discussed. On the other hand, sentences like "In America they say..." or "in Spain they say..." are usually quite inaccurate.

I must say that I have sometimes made similar comments but nowadays I tend to avoid them unless they are relevant in the context of the particular thread. Maybe there should be something about this in the WR rules, because discussions about regional variation in languages tend to be endless and off-topic.


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## Sidjanga

I agree with you on that such comments (if not related to the topic being discussed in the respective thread) are usually superfluous and at times even annoying, and they tend to distract the attention from the principal topic.
[to me it has happened and I have witnessed it happening more often the other way round, though, i.e. that I (or somebody else) had used some word or expression more typical of the (South) American Spanish, and someone from Spain came up to tell me that I couldn't or shouldn't use this word/expression like this in Spain; but I think this aspect is of lesser importance here.]


Cecilio said:


> [...] Maybe there should be something about this in the WR rules, because discussions about regional variation in languages tend to be endless and off-topic.


Maybe, but I think that this aspect is actually already included in the one that says "Only answer to the original question/do not comment on off-topic things." (or something like this... )

Then, the principal question would just be how strictly this rule is -or should be- applied to such (superfluous) comments on actually correct language usage, but by other foreros from other regions or countries, for which reason it might seem little familiar to some.

Anyway, as I said above, I completely agree with you on that this is a topic that deserves some attention and perhaps discussion, for it is certainly no exception.

A possible way might be just to report these things, too. (?) [we´ll end up reporting even that someone forgot to put the full stop at the end of the sentence ]

Saludos


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## Rayines

Una cosa es decir que no "se debe usar", o que es "incorrecto" y otra cosa es aportar las diferentes formas en que se dice algo en los distintos países (me refiero a los de habla hispana que es el idioma que manejo). Yo misma soy de las que permanentemente dice "en Argentina se dice así". Yo les sugiero que lo señalen directamente en el hilo en que consideran que no es pertinente.


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## Loob

Personally, I think that comments about regional variations are endlessly interesting...

Loob


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## Cecilio

Rayines said:


> Yo misma soy de las que permanentemente dice "en Argentina se dice así". Yo les sugiero que lo señalen directamente en el hilo en que consideran que no es pertinente.



I think that saying something like "In a given place it is said this or that way" can obviously be helpful sometimes but I don't see why it should be used on a 'permanent' basis. There are many Spanish-speaking countries, Argentina is simply one of them. Let's imagine that there were foreros from all these countries or regions who would say sentences like that on a regular basis. I suppose in that case many threads would become absolutely boring and meaningless.


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## Cecilio

Loob said:


> Personaly, I think that comments about regional variations are endlessly interesting...
> 
> Loob



I would say that the _*threads *_about regional variation are interesting... And also the comments about regional variation which make sense in their context.


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## Rayines

Cecilio said:


> .................I suppose in that case many threads would become absolutely boring and meaningless.


I think this should be indicated in the corresponding threads, in order to be discussed according to the context of the question.


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## Cecilio

I was simply formulating a hypothesis.


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## argentina84

Rayines said:


> Una cosa es decir que no "se debe usar", o que es "incorrecto" y otra cosa es aportar las diferentes formas en que se dice algo en los distintos países (me refiero a los de habla hispana que es el idioma que manejo). Yo misma soy de las que permanentemente dice "en Argentina se dice así". Yo les sugiero que lo señalen directamente en el hilo en que consideran que no es pertinente.


 
I agree with Rayines


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## elroy

The thing is that in the vast majority of cases (from what I have gathered), those who start threads in the Spanish forum do not indicate which variety/ies of the languages they are interested in.  Who's to say, then, which regional variations are relevant and which ones aren't?  It would be one thing if the thread starter said something like, "I'm living in Uruguay and I'm interested in what expressions are used around here to express your sympathy with someone who's lost a relative," in which case I would consider a comment about the expressions used in Spain off-topic, strictly speaking, but as long as no variety of the language is specified I think any and all responses addressing different variations within the language are legitimate and welcome.


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## Cecilio

elroy said:


> I think any and all responses addressing different variations within the language are legitimate and welcome.



Unless they are out of context or irrelevant.

And let's remember one thing: these issues are often associated with nationalistic or patriotic ideas, which is another matter. I think the best guideline would be to advise foreros that references to national or regional variation in language should be used in a reasonable and contextualised way.


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## elroy

Cecilio said:


> Unless they are out of context or irrelevant.


 How do you decide which responses fit such a description? It would be more useful to this discussion if you gave concrete examples of a situation in which you would consider a comment on a regional variation off-topic (as I did with my Uruguay example above), rather than make vague hypothetical references to cases in which such a comment would be (according to some unspecified standard) "irrelevant." 





> And let's remember one thing: these issues are often associated with nationalistic or patriotic ideas, which is another matter.


 Another matter, indeed. In cases in which a comment indicating a regional variation demonstrates bigotry or is offensive, the objection is not to the reference to regional variation per se, but to the unacceptable style of the post. That has nothing to do with whether the response is relevant or on-topic.


> I think the best guideline would be to advise foreros that references to national or regional variation in language should be used in a reasonable and contextualised way.


 The general "on-topic" rule already covers that. As I said above, unless there is a clear reference in the original post to a specific variety of the language, there is no good reason to prohibit comments on regional varieties.


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## Cecilio

Let's take this thread for example: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=738592

In the original question of this thread the poster mentions three times the Spanish word "patata". He is requesting a possible Spanish translation of English "New potato".

If one reads the first post of this thread, it is clear that this forero (native speaker of English) has learnt the word "patata", and not "papa".

Then there are some posts answering the first question. OK. Then a forero sends a post saying more or less this: "Attention. In America the word is "papa" and in Spain the word is "patata" ". No doubt this forero was trynig to be helpful, but I can see a couple of problems in this post.

1. Maybe this forero didn't read the first post quite well and didn't realize that the first poster used "patata".

2. This forero presupposes that the creator of this thread is interested in the various ways of saying "potato" in Spanish.

3. His comments about "patata/papa" are simple overgeneralizations, because in fact "papa" is also used in some parts of Spain. Are we in favour of promoting easy overgeneralizations in the WR forums?

4. By introducing the word "papa" he may be creating a new error. As far as I know, the translation of "new potato" in Spanish is either "patata nueva" or "patata temprana". I don't know if "papa nueva" or "papa temprana" exist, there is nothing in the word "papa" which allows me to say that these combinations exist. Therefore, mentioning overgeneralizing remarks might be misleading.

The thread about "New potato" exemplifies how a remark about linguistic variation may be out of context and irrelevant, and we know very well that in the English-Spanish forums in particular we must be especially careful about not not to say irrelevant things: they tend to make the already big problems of this forum even worse.


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## alacant

Cecilio said:


> Unless they are out of context or irrelevant.
> 
> And let's remember one thing: these issues are often associated with nationalistic or patriotic ideas, which is another matter. I think the best guideline would be to advise foreros that references to national or regional variation in language should be used in a reasonable and contextualised way.


 
I think that what should be remembered here is that one man's meat is another man's poison. 

I personally find regional and cultural differences and variations fascinating and enriching.

No one forces anyone else to read anything in particular in this forum, and if it is boring the answer is to move on to something else.

Cheers, Alacant


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## housecameron

I guess it can't be helped.
In my opinion it's definitely pertinent and important that differences between Spain and Latin America are pointed out. 
It may be boring to some seniors, but it's unavoidable and perhaps less bothersome than other real off-topics or tedious comments.
And it's not that irrelevant. If the sentence includes “to take”, or “potato”, what are we supposed to do?​There's a continuous turnover of foreros coming and leaving, so everyone must know that _coger _has a sexual meaning in Argentina or Mexico, and that in those countries he should preferably use _tomar _instead, or whatever is more suitable.
In such cases, more experienced members should help by providing useful links to previous threads, for instance like this one, to avoid endless comments.
Saluti


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## Cecilio

housecameron said:


> There's a continuous turnover of foreros coming and leaving, so everyone must know that _coger _has a sexual meaning in Argentina or Mexico, and that in those countries he should preferably use _tomar _instead, or whatever is more suitable.


 (the underlining is mine)

Really? I have never been to Mexico or Argentina. I don't know what I 'should' say or not say there. If I go there one day I will have the chance of noticing things by myself and then I would draw my own conclusions. I don't think being told a couple of generalizing comments in an Internet forum makes much sense to me, unless I'm asking for it or it is relevant in a given thread. What do I gain with these overgeneralizations? What happens if I am in Argentina and say "coger"? I don't know. I will know then. Why should I be 'warned' before?


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## housecameron

So, if someone needs to know how to translate “to take a taxi”, your answer “coger un taxi” should be considered as the definitive one, kind of bible, right?


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## Cecilio

housecameron said:


> So, if someone needs to know how to translate “to take a taxi”, your answer “coger un taxi” should be considered as the definitive one, kind of bible, right?



In a thread about how to take a taxi in Spanish the different regional variants would be relevant. *No doubt about it*. But imagine I'm writing about what I did last weekend and then I write something like: "A las nueve cogí un taxi". What do I care if this "cogí" means a different thing in another country? Why should someone warn me about the possible 'dangers' of that sentence? I prefer to be told on the spot, in a real context, I prefer to make the 'mistake' myself and then see what happens.


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## martikea

housecameron said:


> So, if someone needs to know how to translate “to take a taxi”, your answer “coger un taxi” should be considered as the definitive one, kind of bible, right?


 
Si alguien dice en el foro, patatas o papas, me da igual, es una palabra que cualquiera entendería en los países hispanohablantes.

Otra cosa es que, por ejemplo, y ponièndome en el lugar del estudiante a mí me gusta saber que en UK se dice lift y en USA se dice Elevator. Pero no vería bien que un inglés corrigiera a un americano y viceversa.
asi que en este asunto, dejaría al estudiante que decida qué quiere saber.

Otro asunto es que una palabra suene mal en un sitio y otro. (no me refiero a algo que no se usa, sino a que sea insultante o similar)

Y el caso que más me interesa a mí, que no se entienda, es decir que sea una palabra que yo, como hispanohablante ,tampoco entiendo. Entonces creo que si se tendría que decir algo.


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## argentina84

Cecilio said:


> What do I gain with these overgeneralizations? What happens if I am in Argentina and say "coger"? I don't know. I will know then. Why should I be 'warned' before?


 
Every time I have explained that a specific term means something different in my country, I have done so to help others learn about my culture and language. One of the things I love about WR is that everybody is as open-minded as to understand that things may be different according to the context, time and place. That is why a language forum is not the same as a dictionary.​


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## Kelly B

Cecilio said:


> [...]But imagine I'm writing about what I did last weekend and then I write something like: "A las nueve cogí un taxi". What do I care if this "cogí" means a different thing in another country? Why should someone warn me about the possible 'dangers' of that sentence?[...]


Even if this is not important to you as the thread starter, these threads are a valuable resource for people who read them later. We have many wonderful members who remember to check the dictionary first, and who find and read previous threads. If we have a fellow forer@ on a business trip to Argentina, well, I do like the idea that he'll find all the information he needs when he reads that thread you started.


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## Cecilio

I think this thread is reaching an interesting point. It is clear that comments on regional variation are welcome, and useful, provided they make sense in a thread and are not off-topic. OK. But when I opened this thread I had also in mind other types of comments. Saying that "coger" is not said in Argentina, for example, is an interesting piece of information. Saying that it means "fuck" could also be interesting and enlightening but there is a little problem: more often than not, these remarks are meant as a joke. The problem with jokes is that sometimes they are not so funny, especially if they are repeated all too often. And some of these jokes may be perceived as offensive.

Let's imagine the following sentence: "La madre cogió a su hijo en brazos" (English: "the mother took her son in her arms"). I can't think of a more beautiful sentence in Spanish. Let's imagine someone from Argentina reminding me that this sentence could mean "The mother fucked her son in her arms". How would you feel? The thing is: Does that in any way enrich my language or does it help to empoverish it?


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