# What are differences between Romanian and Moldavian?



## Russianer

What are basic differences between Romanian language and Moldavian language?  
Moldova Republic's Moldavian language and Romanian language are 
different languages or the languages are 2 variants of one basic language of Romania and Moldova?


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## mikey21

Almost no difference, except the alphabet.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language


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## Russianer

Thank you.

А question: is it Romanian language or not the text of a moldavian song of famous Moldavian female singer Sofia Rotaru: 

"Romantică, mi-e tristeţea şi inima
Romantică, cărunteţea şi lacrima
Romantică, singurea sau cu dragostea
Romantică voi rămanea.."

Is it Romanian language, or not?


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## mikey21

Yes it's Romanian. 

We speak the same language.

Americans and British speak English but there are a few things that differ (slang, pronunciation, the written form of some words, etc)

In Spain their language is called Castellano, in Latin America it's called Spanish, but it is the same language. 

Same here Romanian - Moldavian, the only difference is that Moldavian officials have imposed the cyliric alphabet.


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## OldAvatar

mikey21 said:


> Almost no difference, except the alphabet.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_language



The alphabet is not different. Moldovans used to have the Kiryllic alphabet but they don't use it anymore. They now use the standardized Romanian alphabet.


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## oprea_Rd

OldAvatar is right. There is no difference between the two alphabets.
Romanian and Moldavian are same language. The lyrics
 
"Romantică, mi-e tristeţea şi inima
Romantică, cărunteţea şi lacrima
Romantică, singurea sau cu dragostea
Romantică voi rămanea.."
 
can be Romanian or Moldavian..
The differences are that insignificant that we can’t compare them with the Spanish dialects. 
Moldavian is not a Romanian dialect, it’s normal to use different words for the same thing in different parts of the same country: it’s called “regionalism”. 
To understand why is called Moldavian and not Romanian.. well.. that’s more a historical and political issue.. If you need the complete explanation just ask!


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## cacha&!

Is there any difference in the pronunciation?  I have 2 friends who are helping me to learn Romanian, one from Romania and one from Moldavia, and my Moldavian friend seems to pronounce some words slightly differently.  Also, when she is talking to her family (but not to me) she introduces a lot of Russian words into the conversation.  Are these borrowed words accepted as part of the language in Moldavia?


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## mikey21

cacha&! said:


> Is there any difference in the pronunciation?  I have 2 friends who are helping me to learn Romanian, one from Romania and one from Moldavia, and my Moldavian friend seems to pronounce some words slightly differently.  Also, when she is talking to her family (but not to me) she introduces a lot of Russian words into the conversation.  Are these borrowed words accepted as part of the language in Moldavia?



Yes, there's a huge difference in pronunciation. The sentence structure (and 99% of the grammar) is the same. The British and the Americans have different pronunciations, same here (this time I will specifically mention that the similarities limit to accent)



oprea_Rd said:


> dialect (RO) - dialect (EN)



"Dangerous" topic
 - the romanian word for "dialect" doesn't mean the exact same thing as the English word. I've looked them up in monolingual dictionaries.
 - we reserve the Romanian word "dialect" for other languages  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romanian_dialects

Indeed Spanish dialects vary more than Romanian dialects (notice that it's English), that was just an example to show that the same languange can have two different names.

However, the sole reason that we don't use the Romanian word "dialect" to refer to the varieries of the our language, doesn't mean that the English word dialect should not be used.



> dialect n.
> 
> A *regional* or social variety of a language distinguished by *pronunciation*, grammar, *or vocabulary*[...]



To conclude:

*Moldavian is a dialect of Romanian.*

*Limba moldovenească este un grai al limbii române.* (in Constanta we would use "accent", "grai" is what I found in the DEX)


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## Aviador

mikey21 said:


> [...] In Spain their language is called Castellano, in Latin America it's called Spanish, but it is the same language. [...]



Not all over, Mikey. I grew up in Chile calling my mother tongue _castellano_ and I still do it of course (look at my profile). Also, at school, the subject was called _castellano_; I think now it is called _lenguaje_ (I left school so long ago ).
It is true that in certain countries of spanish America they prefer the term _español_ over _castellano_ (and some people in Spain, as well), but that is just a matter of preference.

Bună.


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## oprea_Rd

I'm sorry but I don't agree with the affirmation that Moldavian is a dialect of Romanian. There are some real dialects of Romanian (Aromanian, Meglenoromanian) but Moldavian is not one of them. "Grai" is more appropriate but I wouldn't know how to translate it.. but  "dialect" wouldn't be my first choice..
Moldavian is ... Romanian!..
 
Moldavian is just a political invention, it is not even recognized as a separate language in the international standard codes for languages.
Anyway, in my opinion, in a few years, considering the fact that even thou in Moldavia the pronunciation is different, even thou there are some people that are still using Cyrillic as alphabet, even thou in some regions they still speak Russian, even thou there are still some people saying they speak Moldavian... the European Union and the fact that the official language is Romanian (there are only a few words that distinguish "Moldavian" from Romanian and those words are romanian archaisms and this kind of differences might be found within any linguistic territory, and that doesn't create a dialect or worse, a separate language) in a few years everybody will agree that Moldavian doesn't exist..


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## lletraferida

As far as I remember, Grai (Voz in Spanish, for if it helps) applies to different ways of speaking the Romanian language, according to the region. Grai moldovenesc reffers both to the way of speaking in Moldavia (region within Romania) and in Moldavia - the republic (yes, there are two of them, one of each side of the border).
The Romanian dialects were: Istro-roman (spoken by a 3000 people or so in a region I can't remember, but I'm sure they still do because I've seen a show on differences on science Channel), Megleno-roman (disappeared), Aroman (spoken in the soutth east of our country by people originally coming from Greece, but now it's like the 3rd generation and, although they tried to preserve many Greek words, i'm affraid anyone can understand what they say with a littkle effort) and Daco-roman, which we all speak. 

LLetraferida


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## mikey21

Now that we know all that stuff, let's take a look at the definition of dialect:

http://www.answers.com/dialect



> A *regional *or social variety of a language *distinguished* by pronunciation, grammar, or *vocabulary*, especially a variety of speech differing from the standard literary language or speech pattern of the culture in which it exists: Cockney is a dialect of English.



I don't want to go there, but please do read this part again with the definition of dialect in minid.



> there are only a few *words* that *distinguish* "Moldavian" from Romanian and those words are romanian *archaisms* and this kind of differences might be found within any linguistic territory, and that doesn't create a dialect



And that's not even all, as you claim it to be. There's also a huge difference in pronounciation to which Cacha alluded to.

All this, leads to me to belive that the English word "dialect" is perfect for the matter at hand.

Greetings to everybody!

Edit please excuse the colorfull post, I used it to make things clear.


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## OldAvatar

mikey21 said:


> Now that we know all that stuff, let's take a look at the definition of dialect:
> 
> http://www.answers.com/dialect
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to go there, but please do read this part again with the definition of dialect in minid.




The above definition imposes a few criteria to be met in order to have a dialect. Since the pronunciation is the only one criterion here, and that's not strong enough neither, then, I wouldn't call it a dialect but rather a variation. And I'm pretty sure that you're not going to find many linguists to back you up. Except, of course, the ones able to come up with Romanian-Moldovan dictionaries or some other "astonishing" proofs...
However, we'll probably be able to talk about a hybrid language in Bessarabia, but that's not the case yet.
A dialect is distinguished by its vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation (phonology, including prosody). Where a distinction can be made only in terms of pronunciation, the term _accent_ is appropriate, not _dialect_ (although in common usage, "dialect" and "accent" are usually synonymous).


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## mikey21

C'mon Avatar _*disappointed tone*_, "or" not "and"...it says "pronunciation, grammar, or vocabulary", as in either one of them, at least one of them, not as in all three of them.

*Vocabulary is slightly different like Oprea said*, pronounciation was covered by Cacha. So I don't see how the matter at hand does not fit the definition.

A linguist would be helpful to analyze the grammar diferences, provided that there are any, not that it would make any difference after we have established that vocab and pronounciation differ.


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## OldAvatar

It depends on what definition you're mentioning. Wiki, for example, (indeed, you may say that's not a very reliable source, but I think it's reliable enough in comparison with answers.com) says "and", but not "or". It also underlines the differences/characteristics between/of accent and dialect, perhaps due to political correctness reasons.


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## cacha&!

Talking about vocabulary, here's something interesting:  Over Christmas I had a chocolate egg with a small toy inside it, and this included a leaflet with instructions in various languages for all the EU countries, including Romania and Moldavia.  Both these countries were listed separately and the Romanian and Moldavian versions were in Romanian but with different vocabulary.  Unfortunately, I didn't keep the leaflet, but I'll try to remember the two versions.

Romania: Atenţie!  Ţineţi departe de copii.  Părţile mici pot fi înghiţite!
Moldavia: Atenţie!  Păstraţi departe de copii. Mărunţişurile pot fi înghiţite!

I wonder if this is coincidental or a deliberate attempt to introduce differences in the language for each country?  Surely the vocabulary in both versions is used in both countries?  However, I doubt that the manufacturers of the toy would be aware of this issue, I imagine that two different people were asked for a translation and came up with two different versions.


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## mikey21

On such a leaflet "păstraţi" makes me think of "to conserve/to store away" rather than "to keep". It's kind of funny because in almost every other context that I can think of, it means "to keep". 

"Mărunţişurile" sounds weird here, I've never heard it with the meaning of "individual small parts", rather as "unimportant/insignificant stuff" <= Constanta region.

Can't provide info about it, but my vote goes for deliberate attempt to introduce differences. Although the second onw sounds weird to me, it may be what someone from Moldavia would say.


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## cacha&!

Instruction leaflets are notorious for inaccurate translations, so maybe we shouldn't read too much into it, but there is still no reason why two variations of the same language should be used.


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## OldAvatar

It is that many Moldovans from Bessarabia use Russian as their first language. That's why, sometimes words which are not that usual, even some archaisms, as "mărunţişurile", for example, may come up.


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## pro_niger

mikey21 said:


> There's also a huge difference in pronounciation to which Cacha alluded to.


 
I must totally disagree with you. I live in Galaţi and here some might notice a slight difference in pronounciation between Romanian (spoken by natives from Galaţi) and Moldavian, but as we go north on the map (Iaşi, Suceava, Botoşani) the two languages are alike (even in pronounciation)

Have a nice day


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## mikey21

Galaţi and Iaşi are in Moldavia, they "use" the Moldavian pronunciation in Galati and Iasi. They "use" the Romanian pronunciation in Bucharest and Constanta.

Other than that, please don't say that Moldavian and Romanian (or as you said, Moldavian from the Republic and Moldavian from the Romanian region, which is even worse) are "two languages"...it's the same language with notable differences in vocabulary and pronunciation, that may also have slight differences in grammar (still pending a linguist's confirmation/veto)


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## oprea_Rd

Personally I've tried to explain that Romanian and Moldavian are the same language a while ago and now I find that here you've arrived saying there's a Moldavian language in Romania and another one in Moldavia.. I don't know if I should laugh or cry about it!..
 
But, Mikey, the differences are not "notable".. maybe just for the pronunciation; the grammar is the same in Romania and Moldavia without no shadow of doubt!.. Vocabulary is identical, with the observation that in Romania the language has evolved, in Moldavia it stopped at the moment the Russians came forcing them to study in  Russian.. So in Moldavia they are using some archaic Romanian words. But just a few. And those ones are disappearing, Moldavian is replacing them with other recent Romanian words..
The pronunciation is same in "Romania's Moldavia" and Moldavia because they have been an unit territory for centuries...
 
And then again.. “They use  Romanian pronunciation in Constanta..  ” . I really don’t like the sound of it. 
The Literary Romanian was born in the 16th century in the south of today’s Romania in the area between Targoviste and Brasov. The literary language extended inevitably in all Valachia (all south, one of the three big regions of Romania that have been separated practically from their creation until the 20th century). But Romanian was also spoken in Moldavia and Transylvania. Literature came from Valachia to them and with it the Literary Romanian.
 
The pronunciation may be a little different in all the three regions, but Romanian is spoken all over today’s Romania and Moldavia..
If someone dares to say that there’s a Moldavian language, than he has to accept a Transylvanian language too…


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## mikey21

mikey21 said:


> Other than that, please don't say that Moldavian and Romanian (or as you said, Moldavian from the Republic and Moldavian from the Romanian region, which is even worse) are "two languages"
> 
> what I said | what he said (practically) | what is deduced*
> 
> * I may have misunderstood that part (and I would like to apologize if I did), but read his post carefully before developing it into an argument





oprea_Rd said:


> Personally I've tried to explain that Romanian and Moldavian are the same language a while ago and now I find that here you've arrived saying there's a Moldavian language in Romania and another one in Moldavia.. I don't know if I should laugh or cry about it!..


Please note that "as you said, [...]," implies that [...] are not my words. I am choosing to laugh 

I said that "we speak the same language" in my second post. That's not the matter at hand.



oprea_Rd said:


> But, Mikey, the differences are not "notable".. maybe just for the pronunciation; the grammar is the same in Romania and Moldavia without no shadow of doubt!.. Vocabulary is identical, with the observation that in Romania the language has evolved, in Moldavia it stopped at the moment the Russians came forcing them to study in Russian.. So in Moldavia they are using some archaic Romanian words. But just a few. And those ones are disappearing, Moldavian is replacing them with other recent Romanian words..


"Fă-te-ncoa' şi fi fază căt de belea-i duma": slang is also a part of what we define as vocabulary.

Out of pure curiosity: in Moldova do they use "helancă", "maletă", both, or another word? (sorry for not opening a new topic)



oprea_Rd said:


> And then again.. “They "use" the Romanian pronunciation in *Bucharest and* Constanta.” . I really don’t like the sound of it.
> The Literary Romanian was born in the 16th century in the south of today’s Romania in the area between Targoviste and Brasov. The literary language extended inevitably in all Valachia (all south, one of the three big regions of Romania that have been separated practically from their creation until the 20th century). But Romanian was also spoken in Moldavia and Transylvania. Literature came from Valachia to them and with it the Literary Romanian.


So I used Bucharest and Constanta instead of Valahia...I did that in order to draw a parallel to the previously mentioned "Galaţi and Iaşi". I thought that that plus the inverted commas that beside the word "use" would suffice..

Other than that, quote me, but please don't modify my quotes or try to take my words out of their context.


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## Caktus

This discussion about Moldovan and Romanian is very interesting, but I could not understand one thing. When speaking about  Moldovan do people refer to the literary language/standard language as used in the Republic of Moldova or the Moldavian accent as it is spoken (in its pure form in the countryside) by the people living on the territory of the historic principality of Moldavia. Because usually when somebody asks something about a  language on this forum, I understand the standard language and not a dialect or regional accent, unless clearly specified.
               As far as I know there are no differences between Romanian and Moldovan in pronunciation or grammar. But there are differences between the Moldavian accent and standard Romanian/Moldovan mostly related to phonology  that nobody denies.


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## Ottilie

Russianer said:


> What are basic differences between Romanian language and Moldavian language?
> Moldova Republic's Moldavian language and Romanian language are
> different languages or the languages are 2 variants of one basic language of Romania and Moldova?




 There are very few differences,I don't call Moldavian a true language,but dialect of the Romanian, will explain in Russian because I speak it better.
Обнаружилa много интересных вопросов в топике, а также интересных заблуждений =) 
Например: Различия между румынским и молдавским. Мы и сами здесь не знаем) В принципе молдавский - "русифицированный" румынский. Да, примеры про "рубашку" и "дискотеку" есть и это наше больное место. Нередко румыны не понимают молдаван. произношение тоже очень различается. Румынский больше звучит по-европейски, с характерными "л".
НИКОГДА при поездках в Румынию не возникало языковых проблем)) бывает, что их маты не понимаю или жаргон. У нас действительно по другому народ матерится. Hе знала ещё месяц назад что такое МУЕ по румынски.  в параллельном классе учится чувак из румынии. я бы не сказала что мы с ним в корридоре говорим на разных языках.

 Imi cer scuze ca am scris in rusa,insa nu ma simt in stare sa-i explic in engleza pentru ca nu o cunosc suficient de bine.


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## Isoniahtar

The difference is merely dialectical (in the sense of dialects from the same language), but there are political interests to keep them apart. Anyway, as everybody else before me said, Moldavian is just another dialect of Romanian, closely related to the one spoken in Romanian Moldavia, but blending towards Russian. Again, the difference is more political than semantic, Romanian and "Moldavian" are mutually understood, and, from a linguistic point of view, they are the same language.


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## Ottilie

Da,in ceea ce priveste limba scrisa,aproape ca nu este nicio diferenta. In limba vorbita,insa,mai ales la Chisinau si in orasele mari,se folosesc multe rusisme,adaptate la limba romana,ceea ce face greu ca un roman sa inteleaga respectiva limba. Insa daca un moldovean vorbeste fara rusisme,nu cred ca exista vreo problema in a intelege.
 Opinia moldovenilor despre diferente este in general ca romana standard este o limba ''mai europeana'' in comparatie cu 'moldoveneasca', ca romana suna mai bine,mai elevat samd.


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## Isoniahtar

@Ottilie: Dacă este să ne gândim aşa, şi în Ardeal se vorbeşte româna cu multe ungurisme şi nemţisme, dar tot este considerată limba română. Îţi dau dreptate cu treaba cu limba mai europeană - ceea ce este în sine un fenomen bazat pe influenţele exterioare asupra unei singure limbi (franceza, engleza vs. rusa).


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## traveling cloud

Numărul ungurismelor şi nemţismelor este mult mai mic în Ardeal comparativ cu numărul rusismelor din Moldova. În plus, ardelenismele se răspândesc rapid şi în restul ţării; deja începi să auzi bucureşteni get-beget vorbind cu "fain" (germ. Fein), deşi formele argotice primează printre majoritatea şi în special pentru majoritatea. Schimburile culturale dintre Ardeal şi restul României sunt mult mai mari decât cele dintre Rep. Moldova şi România, lucru firesc şi care se regăseşte şi în limba vorbită.

The number of Hungarian and German words used in Transylvania is much less compared to the Russian words used in Moldova. Also, they spread rapidly over the rest of the country; you can hear from Bucharest-born people words like "fain" (germ. Fein) - roughly the same meaning in English, although the argotic forms are preferred by the most people. Obviously, the cultural relations between Transylvania and the rest of Romania are much stronger than the ones between Moldova and Romania, and this can be seen in the spoken language, too.


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## Ottilie

> But, Mikey, the differences are not "notable".. maybe just for the pronunciation; the grammar is the same in Romania and Moldavia without no shadow of doubt!.. Vocabulary is identical, with the observation that in Romania the language has evolved, in Moldavia it stopped at the moment the Russians came forcing them to study in Russian.. So in Moldavia they are using some archaic Romanian words. But just a few. And those ones are disappearing, Moldavian is replacing them with other recent Romanian words..



 I wonder whether you really know the linguistic situation in Moldova or just speak without knowing it.  The study of Romanian never ceased ,although Moldavian(Romanian) in that time was written in the Russian alphabet. There are of course,archaic words,but most of the words Romanians cannot understand when 2 Moldovans speak are the so-called 'rusisme'(Russian words-not archaic,which entered the language over the past 60 years)
 In Moldova no one is forced to study in Russian, Russian language (as foreign) is indeed a compulsory subject in schools, but studying in Russian all the subjects is a matter of choice. There are Moldavian/Romanian-language schools(where Russian is studied as foreign language) and Russian schools(where Romanian is studied as foreign language).


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## beenni

cacha&! said:


> Talking about vocabulary, here's something interesting:  Over Christmas I had a chocolate egg with a small toy inside it, and this included a leaflet with instructions in various languages for all the EU countries, including Romania and Moldavia.  Both these countries were listed separately and the Romanian and Moldavian versions were in Romanian but with different vocabulary.  Unfortunately, I didn't keep the leaflet, but I'll try to remember the two versions.
> 
> Romania: Atenţie!  Ţineţi departe de copii.  Părţile mici pot fi înghiţite!
> Moldavia: Atenţie!  Păstraţi departe de copii. Mărunţişurile pot fi înghiţite!
> 
> I wonder if this is coincidental or a deliberate attempt to introduce differences in the language for each country?  Surely the vocabulary in both versions is used in both countries?  However, I doubt that the manufacturers of the toy would be aware of this issue, I imagine that two different people were asked for a translation and came up with two different versions.




LOL, this is quite fooney. It's just the same language. Regarding "ţineţi departe" and "păstraţi departe", I would rather suggest the more typical Romanian expression "a nu se lăsa la îndemâna copiilor". As for "părţile mici" and "mărunţişurile", it is just ridiculous that someone could consider this a matter belonging to two different languages. Politics and common sense don't share the same path, unfortunately. Be happy and enjoy life!


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## Romanian

How about the romanian spoken in Serbia? 

My family is romanian, but from Serbia... San Mihai to be exact, or in serbian Lokve. I know my friend is romanian, and while i understand 75% of the words she uses, and the gist of everything she says, I definitely dont understand every word. I think the romanian we speak is probably a variant of Moldovan if my information that Moldova is a mountainous area and knowing my family came from the mountains, is correct, then it leads me to believe that it is an extension of that dialect. But maybe not?

Anyone have any information though?


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## farscape

Romanian said:


> How about the romanian spoken in Serbia?
> 
> My family is Romanian, but from Serbia... San Mihai to be exact, or in serbian Lokve. I know my friend is Romanian, and while i understand 75% of the words she uses, and the gist of everything she says, I definitely don't understand every word. I think the Romanian we speak is probably a variant of Moldovan if my information that Moldova is a mountainous area and knowing my family came from the mountains, is correct, then it leads me to believe that it is an extension of that dialect. But maybe not?
> 
> Anyone have any information though?



 Typically, the region bordering Serbia is known as Banat and the  dialect spoken by the elders is the Bănăţean dialect. I suspect that  this (or very close to it) is the language spoken by you and your  relatives.

In fact, Wiki supplies this info:  *"Alibunar* (Алибунар) is a town  and municipality in South Banat District of Vojvodina,  Serbia.  Alibunar town has a population of 3,402, and Alibunar municipality  22,856. ... The following villages with Romanian names are part of this  municipality:

Sân Mihai(l)
Seleuş
Petrovasila(?)
Nikolinţ
"

In any case, it shouldn't be related to the Moldovenesc dialect spoken in  Romania or the language spoken in Moldova, other than through the main Romanian root.

Best,


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## Ottilie

Romanian said:


> How about the romanian spoken in Serbia?
> 
> My family is romanian, but from Serbia... San Mihai to be exact, or in serbian Lokve. I know my friend is romanian, and while i understand 75% of the words she uses, and the gist of everything she says, I definitely dont understand every word. I think the romanian we speak is probably a variant of Moldovan if my information that Moldova is a mountainous area and knowing my family came from the mountains, is correct, then it leads me to believe that it is an extension of that dialect. But maybe not?
> 
> Anyone have any information though?


 I believe they have no other connection than the common Romanian root. Moldavian is Russian-influenced Romanian,while Vlach(the Romanian spoken in Serbia) is Serbian-influenced Romanian. I believe it wouldn't be that easy for a Vlach and Moldavian understand each-other ,unless they speak Standard Romanian


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## traveling cloud

> I believe it wouldn't be that easy for a Vlach and Moldavian understand each-other unless they speak Standard Romanian.


I don't think so. I've seen some clips on Youtube with Romanians from Serbia speakers, and the language they use is very close to the standard Romanian. If you understand the dialect from Oltenia and Banat, you will have no problems with the Serbian dialect (search for "Românii uitaţi din Serbia" on Youtube).


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## OldAvatar

Ottilie said:


> I believe they have no other connection than the common Romanian root. Moldavian is Russian-influenced Romanian,while Vlach(the Romanian spoken in Serbia) is Serbian-influenced Romanian. I believe it wouldn't be that easy for a Vlach and Moldavian understand each-other ,unless they speak Standard Romanian



I don't think so! I work with a lot of guys from Bassarabia and I never had problems understanding them, no matter whether their first language is Romanian or Russian.


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## Wikislav

lletraferida said:


> ...The Romanian dialects were: Istro-roman (spoken by a 3000 people or so  in a region I can't remember, but I'm sure they still do because I've  seen a show on differences on science Channel), Megleno-roman  (disappeared), Aroman (spoken in the soutth east of our country by  people originally coming from Greece, but now it's like the 3rd  generation and, although they tried to preserve many Greek words, i'm  affraid anyone can understand what they say with a littkle effort) and  Daco-roman, which we all speak.
> LLetraferida



In relation to above post, I can offer some newest informations on the western Romanian dialects in recent Croatia _(Istro-Roman)_, and also in Bosnia _(Morlachian)_, because I had iteratively visited and interviewed them in last years - (please put this post also in a new separate thread on 'West-Romanian dialects' if that is better). 

1. *Istro-Roman* is justly the westernmost dialect related to Romanian, spoken in northern mountains of _*Istra* peninsula_, Croatia; the proper name of this dialect is _'*Rumeri cuvinta*'_. Now it has _530_ active speakers including also children, chiefly in two major villages: _Žejane_ (Zeian) above port Opatija, and _Šušnjevica_ (Susnevite) at port Labin, and also some minute hamlets scattered in Istria. The above older indication on 3000 speakers is related to all Romance speakers in Istria, both of minor Istro-roman + major Italian 'Istriotto' in southwestern Istria. 

2. Newly extinct Romanian in *Krk island* (Kvarner Gulf): At the western shore of this island near port Malinska, a century ago persisted 2 major villages _Poljica_ and _Dubašnica_. Their Romanian speakers by surrounding Slavic Chakavians were called 'Vlahi', and their language _"Ć*u*ska bes*e*da"_ (bold is stress site). Their last active speaker was _Mate Bajčić-Gašpović. _From them till now was conserved only a text of Romanian Paternoster _(Cace nostru)_, and the local Romanian toponyms and plant names.

3. *Morlachian* Romance in southwestern Bosnia, called '_Murl*a*ška bes*y*da_' by surrounding Ikavian Slavs, being justly in extinction. Up to 1980ies they included about 40 last speakers mostly as shepherds in their mountain _Bleinatorna_ (now Slavic: Staretina) above Livno town. They mostly perished or emigrated during the last Bosnian war, and there persisted few speaking elders only. Their main heritage there are _275_ noted words, and the exotic Romance names of peaks and saddles around Livno: Bleinatorna, Gareta, Suturba, Brona, Mitra, Jenit, Drul, Junč, ...etc.


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## anangryrabbit

Hi guys... I'm form Moldova and I always get sad then I see this kind of threads. 
First of All: THRE'S NO SUCH THING AS MOLDAVIAN LANGUAGE... We speak Romanian with some characteristic differences ... (it's not really a dialect)  The whole   "moldavian language" thing is a political trick.  Some politicians in our country keep saying that they speak "moldavian language" just to "express" their russian/communist views because the term "moldavian language" was introduced by communists for political purposes. Also some Russian-speaking people who live in Moldova but  don't know Romanian  language keep calling it "Moldavian" by mistake.


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## traveling cloud

The soviet regime tried to impose Russian as standard language in Moldova, just like it did in many soviet republics (like Ukraine or Belarus). As a result, many young people from big cities learned Russian as native language and now speak Romanian with dificulties, as second language. In contrast, people from rural areas remained loyal to their traditional language - Romanian - and now they speak it better than many well-educated citizens.

One effect of the russification was the change in vocabulary by borrowing many Russian words, expressions and calques that a person native from Romania may not understand.


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## Deem-A

anangryrabbit said:


> Hi guys... I'm form Moldova and I always get sad then I see this kind of threads.
> First of All: THRE'S NO SUCH THING AS MOLDAVIAN LANGUAGE... We speak Romanian with some characteristic differences ... (it's not really a dialect)  The whole   "moldavian language" thing is a political trick.  Some politicians in our country keep saying that they speak "moldavian language" just to "express" their russian/communist views because the term "moldavian language" was introduced by communists for political purposes. Also some Russian-speaking people who live in Moldova but  don't know Romanian  language keep calling it "Moldavian" by mistake.



 I am Moldavian myself (from the region Bukovina,Ukraine). I studied in a Modavian school and it's a surprise for me to find out that this language does not exist. I can feel the difference between the Moldavian my grandmother speaks and the Romanian spoken in Romania,the languages are indeed very close ,but there are also numerous differences .



> The soviet regime tried to impose Russian as standard language in Moldova, just like it did in many soviet republics (like Ukraine or Belarus). As a result, many young people from big cities learned Russian as native language and now speak Romanian with dificulties, as second language.


Regarding Ukraine and Belarus,Russian was spoken as a first language long before the Soviet Union.


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## traveling cloud

Well, I'm from Romania and I can feel the differences between the language spoken in Bucharest, Cluj-Napoca, Timişoara and Iaşi. But that doesn't mean they are different languages.

BTW, what you can say about the language spoken in Romanian Moldova (Iaşi, Suceava, Vaslui etc)? It's Romanian or Moldavian?


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## anangryrabbit

*Deem-A* I know how is the language problem is treated there where you live - my grandmother lives here. The language you must have been learned at school (whatever the authorities called it has no differences with the romanian spoken by romanians) You probably learned poems writen by authors like Eminescu or Alecsandri (also studied in romanian schools), and I must surrprise you again- these have never been translated form _moldavian_ to romanian because they  would sound exactly the same in _both languages  _Your grandmother may speak it in a very different way but you'll never use her way of speaking to express you thoughts in an simple scholar essay or an official letter.


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## Caktus

Deem-A said:


> I am Moldavian myself (from the region Bukovina,Ukraine). I studied in a Modavian school and it's a surprise for me to find out that this language does not exist. I can feel the difference between the Moldavian my grandmother speaks and the Romanian spoken in Romania,the languages are indeed very close ,but there are also numerous differences .
> 
> 
> Regarding Ukraine and Belarus,Russian was spoken as a first language long before the Soviet Union.


Deem-A, could you also feel the difference between the language you studied at school and "the Moldavian your grandmother" spoke? I suspect you did. In this case, have you also reached the conclusion that they were two different languages?
I would also like to ask which are the differences between the language you studied and standard Romanian?


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## Anarhie

Dear comrades, 

There is no difference between the two. Maybe a little bit of accent.
MOLDAVIAN IS NOT A DIALECT. There are 4 dialects of romanian. Daco-Romana, Megleno-romana, Istro-romana, Macedo-romana (Aromana) (I don't know how they are called in english)

And the thing with the cyrillic alphabet is available in Transnistria only.


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## traveling cloud

These four dialects are called "languages" in english. 

I don't know if Moldavian is a dialect of Romanian, but the four "dialects" are quite different, and have their own literary standards, so they can't be considered dialects (even if they are mutually intelligible to some extent). If you consider them dialects, you should do the same with Spanish and Portuguese, BCS and Slovenian, or Danish and Swedish.


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## Denmark

It is really a very exciting subject and I've even chosen it as a them for my exam synopsis. I would like to find out if Moldavian is a dialect of Romanian- or is another language, -or it is Romanian which has been under the strong infuence during the Soviet time and after it. 

I haven't written anything yet, which can be useful at the moment but I have some ideas already. ;-) To explain this phenomen (so called Moldavian language) it is important to include the development of Roamanian language itself- dublets (glas-voce, vreme-timp, a nadejdui- a spera and so on), calques, archaism, dacian period, romanization (substart), slavinization (superstrat), romanization again. Adstart (influence of another languages wihtout too much interference- Turkish, Hungarian).  

If some of you have any helpful information (your own experience), I will be very thanksful! 

In the beginning there was an example of Sofia Rotaru's song:

"Romantică, mi-e tristeţea şi inima
Romantică, cărunteţea şi lacrima
Romantică, singurea sau cu dragostea
Romantică voi rămanea.."

The last sentance, shouldn't it sound more like this- romantică voi rămâne?
Rămanea is a "typical" Moldavian way of saying it or is it said this way just because it rhymes?

Thank you in advance!

Alex


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## farscape

You are right, I think "rămânea" is used here just because it rhymes - it's a past tense, 3rd person singular.

Now that out of the way, for foreigners perhaps it's easier to think of  this "linguistic conundrum"  by anlogy with the German language which is  spoken in Germany and Austria (and Switzerland) or the French langauage  spoken in France and Belgium (and Monaco, Luxembourg, etc.).

In each of this cases the body of the langauge is the same, the grammar  is the same with some diferences in the lexical fond and idioms. That is  exactly the case with Romanian and "Moldavian" languages. In fact  "Moldavian language" is a geo-political term and doesn't have much to do  with the language itself which, as it has been said many times in this  thread, is the Romanian language spoken East of the river Prut.

Best,


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## beenni

Denmark said:


> It is really a very exciting subject and I've even chosen it as a them for my exam synopsis. I would like to find out if Moldavian is a dialect of Romanian- or is another language, -or it is Romanian which has been under the strong infuence during the Soviet time and after it.
> 
> I haven't written anything yet, which can be useful at the moment but I have some ideas already. ;-) To explain this phenomen (so called Moldavian language) it is important to include the development of Roamanian language itself- dublets (glas-voce, vreme-timp, a nadejdui- a spera and so on), calques, archaism, dacian period, romanization (substart), slavinization (superstrat), romanization again. Adstart (influence of another languages wihtout too much interference- Turkish, Hungarian).
> 
> If some of you have any helpful information (your own experience), I will be very thanksful!
> 
> In the beginning there was an example of Sofia Rotaru's song:
> 
> "Romantică, mi-e tristeţea şi inima
> Romantică, cărunteţea şi lacrima
> Romantică, singurea sau cu dragostea
> Romantică voi rămanea.."
> 
> The last sentance, shouldn't it sound more like this- romantică voi rămâne?
> Rămanea is a "typical" Moldavian way of saying it or is it said this way just because it rhymes?
> 
> Thank you in advance!
> 
> Alex



Just as a general information, I want to mention I was born and lived for a long time in the Northernmost part of Romania (Bucovina, to be more accurate) and most of us used to rather say _a rămânea_ when colloquially speaking than _a rămâne_. Of course, it's a slightly intrincated matter since at school we've been told to use the standard form _a rămâne_ so nowadays people can unwittingly switch both forms. 

I hope it'll help.
Cordially,
B


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## Denmark

Thank you both! 

I found some good articles about "Moldavian" language and my conclusion will be that there is not such language. It's a nonsence! As it was mentioned before here- regeonalism is just another way of using the language and dosn't make it to its own. Besides, if a Romanian can't understand one from Moldova because of the use of rude words (maty)- it has something to do with the politics and the strong influence of Russian language. The same appears in Latvian or Lithuanian languages where rude words can be heard after each Latvian/Lithuanian word. And this doesn't make them to other languages. 
As Farscape mentioned- German is a very good example- In Austria where the dialect is so strong that it can't be understood even by native Austrian from another part of the country- it is still called a German language, only it's a dialect. 

I don't understand how it could come to such a big issue to divide one language into two? Yes, of course, it was done during the Soviet time but I wonder why it took such a long time to admit and call things the way they are.


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## beenni

Denmark said:


> Thank you both!
> 
> I found some good articles about "Moldavian" language and my conclusion will be that there is not such language. It's a nonsence! As it was mentioned before here- regeonalism is just another way of using the language and dosn't make it to its own. Besides, if a Romanian can't understand one from Moldova because of the use of rude words (maty)- it has something to do with the politics and the strong influence of Russian language. The same appears in Latvian or Lithuanian languages where rude words can be heard after each Latvian/Lithuanian word. And this doesn't make them to other languages.
> As Farscape mentioned- German is a very good example- In Austria where the dialect is so strong that it can't be understood even by native Austrian from another part of the country- it is still called a German language, only it's a dialect.
> 
> I don't understand how it could come to such a big issue to divide one language into two? Yes, of course, it was done during the Soviet time but I wonder why it took such a long time to admit and call things the way they are.



Politics are so odd. Try to find info about a very similar situation: the Catalan language and the Valencian. It's another nonsense but some people from Valencia state their language is Valencian. You won't look for basic reasons such as "I'm from Catalonia, I can perfectly undestand you, you're from Valencia, you can perfectly understand me so we speak the same language". They'll refute each sensible reason and keep expressing this irrational linguistic fallacy. 

Cheers,
B


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