# האנגלית שלי רחוקה מלהיות מושלמת



## Abaye

During a Zoom conversation yesterday I apologised "my English is far from perfect", but then realised that unconsciously I translated the Hebrew phrase "האנגלית שלי רחוקה מלהיות מושלמת" word by word. It this English phrase reasonable, or maybe should I say "my English is anything but perfect" or alike?

(It's an English question but derived from Hebrew).


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## shalom00

"far from perfect" is perfect.


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## Haskol

I assume that the phrase "רחוק מלהיות מושלם" is itself a calque to begin with.


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## elroy

shalom00 said:


> "far from perfect" is perfect.


But not factually accurate in this case.


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## Drink

Haskol said:


> I assume that the phrase "רחוק מלהיות מושלם" is itself a calque to begin with.



If it's a calque, it's not an exact calque, as an exact calque should have been רחוקה ממושלמת.


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## Abaye

Drink said:


> If it's a calque, it's not an exact calque, as an exact calque should have been רחוקה ממושלמת.


Seems that Hebrew like English have both רחוקה מלהיות מושלמת <-> "far from being perfect" and רחוקה ממושלמת <-> "far from perfect". So generally speaking @Haskol's observation is probable, although I did indeed mix the two variants in the initial message.


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## elroy

Abaye said:


> "far from being perfect"


This one sounds clumsy to me.

It may be a calque from German:  _Mein Englisch ist *von perfekt weit entfernt*._


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## Abaye

elroy said:


> This one sounds clumsy to me.


And so is Hebrew רחוק מלהיות מושלם for me. This modern use of infinitive construct in such case and specifically with two prefixes (מ-ל-) is like chewing sand. But it's normal in colloquial Hebrew.


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## elroy

Abaye said:


> And so is Hebrew רחוק מלהיות מושלם for me.


But that's the one you said?  

(It didn't sound great to me either.)


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## Haskol

Drink said:


> If it's a calque, it's not an exact calque, as an exact calque should have been רחוקה ממושלמת.


It isn't necessarily a calque from English. Could be from another European language, or indeed not an exact calque.


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## Abaye

elroy said:


> But that's the one you said?


Yes, sadly my language is contaminated too, inevitable proceeding. That's how languages evolve I guess, yesterday's mistakes are tomorrow's norm, especially when constructs are missing in a language: lacking a natural gerund, modern Hebrew speakers invent one. And it's not about copula, "being", it's about any verb. For example:
הלכת כבר הביתה?
מה פתאום, אני רחוק *מללכת* הביתה, עדיין בעבודה


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## elroy

Abaye said:


> הלכת כבר הביתה?
> מה פתאום, אני רחוק *מללכת* הביתה, עדיין בעבודה


Interesting.  In English, "I'm far from going home" wouldn't work there.


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## Drink

What's wrong with the מ + infinitive construction? It is found in the Mishnah:

- דמאי ב ג: לא נמנעו *מלהיות* אוכלין זה אצל זה
- כלאים ח א: כלאי הכרם אסורין *מלזרוע* *ומלקיים* ואסורין בהנאה כלאי זרעים אסורין *מלזרוע* *ומלקיים* ומותרין באכילה כלאי בגדים מותרין לכל דבר ואינן אסורין אלא *מללבוש* כלאי בהמה מותרין לגדל ולקיים ואינן אסורין אלא *מלהרביע* כלאי בהמה אסורין זה עם זה
- יבמות א ד: לא נמנעו בית שמאי *מלישא* נשים מבית הלל
- מקואות א ו: פסקו *מלהיות* בוצצין


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## Abaye

All these quotes have traces of Aramaic influence. That is, written by those who probably spoke Hebrew as a second language. For me good Hebrew is a combination of the (not too esoteric parts of the) bible + *natural* additions since then. *Natural* means here grammar and vocabulary that made their way to the language to the level that now their integration is seamless.

This is not a scientific thing of course, and yet I believe that my instinct in this specific regard can be demonstrated statistically in modern Hebrew... yet I'm too lazy to collect and analyze the data.


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## amikama

Drink said:


> What's wrong with the מ + infinitive construction?


I think the problem is with the construction שם תואר + מ- + שם פועל, not with מ- + שם פועל.

Your examples involve verbs or passive participles (אסורין, מותרין). Are there examples with adjectives?


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