# con la excelencia que



## Caliban

Hola a todos:

Espero puedan ayudarme con esta frase:

Los cursos ad hoc son impartidos por docentes especializados, *con la excelencia que el mercado internacional requiere.*

_Algunas ideas: 
The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors, with the excellence?? that the international market requires.
__The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors, __committed to excel and fullfil the international market requirements. 
__The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors,__committed to succesfully fulfill international market requirements.

_Muchas gracias por su ayuda. La necesito 

Caliban


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## William Stein

Caliban said:


> Hola a todos:
> 
> Espero puedan ayudarme con esta frase:
> 
> Los cursos ad hoc son impartidos por docentes especializados, *con la excelencia que el mercado internacional requiere.*
> 
> _Algunas ideas:
> The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors, with the excellence?? that the international market requires.
> __The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors, __committed to excel and fullfil the international market requirements.
> __The ad hoc courses are taught by specialist professors,__committed to succesfully fulfill international market requirements.
> 
> _Muchas gracias por su ayuda. La necesito
> 
> Caliban



expert professors who meet the standards of excellence required (or imposed) by the international market


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## Caliban

Thanks William


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## k-in-sc

The ad hoc courses are taught by specialists, to the highest international standards.
Not "professors" unless this is an actual university.


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## Caliban

k-in-sc said:


> The ad hoc courses are taught by specialists, to the highest international standards.
> Not "professors" unless this is an actual university.



It is a university, k-in-sc, so is it ok to say professors?


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## William Stein

Caliban said:


> It is a university, k-in-sc, so is it ok to say professors?



"Docentes" (lecturers) are almost always at a university, right?


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## k-in-sc

Hmm, if it's a university but they're only lecturers, it might be better to stick with "specialists" then. There's a whole instructional hierarchy at American universities.


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> Hmm, if it's a university but they're only lecturers, it might be better to stick with "specialists" then. There's a whole instructional hierarchy at American universities.



"Specialists" is no kind of academic title or position of any kind as far as I know and this isn't an American university.


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## k-in-sc

No, but it sounds good


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> No, but it sounds good



I made the comment precisely becuase I think it doesn't. They're obviously trying to put together a top-notch university attractive to students and "specialists" isn't any kind of credential.


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## Caliban

Thank you both, you've been very helpful


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## k-in-sc

But you can't call them professors if they aren't, not in the U.S. anyway -- the system is very strict about that.


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> But you can't call them professors if they aren't, not in the U.S. anyway -- the system is very strict about that.



You can't impose the American system on a foreign university (thank God!)


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## k-in-sc

No, but it still shapes people's ideas.


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## Caliban

If it helps, this is for a Peruvian University


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## k-in-sc

You might say "specialist/specialized instructors" ...


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> You might say "specialist/specialized instructors" ...



Personally I think that sounds terrible (sorry!). Instructor could be any level. If they're lecturing in the university at the very least they're lecturers. And who ever says "specialist/specialised professors"? That's obviously just the result of mechanical word-for-word translation. I would say "expert professors or lecturers" (expert = highly specialized). And if they meet an international standard of excellence I don't think you have to obsess about giving them a suitably low qualification, especially since this is a sort of advertisement for the institution and the client would not be happy.


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## k-in-sc

"Expert instructors" and that's my final offer


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## William Stein

Fortunately for the client you're not the one who's doing the translation


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## k-in-sc

Fortunately for the client, you're not either ...


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## William Stein

At least I would give a positive image of the place instead of trying to knock down the status of the professors for no good reason.


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## Roberto_Mendoza

I think that "experts" might work. I tend to agree with k-in-sc, you should not use the word "professor" without proper context. And I can say that this is not exclusive of the American university system: most academic systems in the West are pretty careful about what it means to be an actual professor, beginning with degree (99% of the times it requires a Ph.D.), rank (assistant, associate, etc.), research (publications, ongoing projects, etc.). 

Whether we like it or not, that is the system that most of the world universities abide by. I know we do in Mexico, and most other countries in Latin America (at least in the major research universities, including Perú, such as the Pontificia or San Marcos).


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## William Stein

Roberto_Mendoza said:


> I think that "experts" might work. I tend to agree with k-in-sc, you should not use the word "professor" without proper context. And I can say that this is not exclusive of the American university system: most academic systems in the West are pretty careful about what it means to be an actual professor, beginning with degree (99% of the times it requires a Ph.D.), rank (assistant, associate, etc.), research (publications, ongoing projects, etc.).
> 
> Whether we like it or not, that is the system that most of the world universities abide by. I know we do in Mexico, and most other countries in Latin America (at least in the major research universities, including Perú, such as the Pontificia or San Marcos).



Since this is an advertisement for a university and the "docentes" are described as *con la excelencia que el mercado internacional requiere" *I would say it's extremely probable that they are professors by any standard. I would put "excellent professors" with a comment box for the client: "Or, in the unlikely event that they do not have professor status, "excellent lecturers".


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## k-in-sc

To me "lecturer" is a very low-level teaching position. Hence "instructors."


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> To me "lecturer" is a very low-level teaching position. Hence "instructors."



You seem to have your own special version of the English language because "lecturers" are people who give lectures at the university or at professional conferences whereas and "instructors" can be a drill sergeant in the army. 
A *lecturer* is, in the broadest sense, a person who gives lectures or other public speeches. However, this article concerns lecturer as an academic rank.
In* the United Kingdom a lecturer is usually the holder of an open-ended position at a university or similar institution, often an academic in an early career stage, *who teaches and also leads or oversees research groups.
This contrasts with the practice in* North America: the United States, Canada and other countries influenced by their educational systems, where the term is used differently. It generally denotes academic experts without tenure in the university, who teach full- or part-time but who have few or no research responsibilities* within the institution where they teach. In most research universities in the United States, the title of lecturer requires a doctorate or equivalent degree.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lecturer

Both in the US and Uk, a lecturer is an academic expert. Anybody can be an instructor, that doesn't mean anything as a university position.


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## k-in-sc

More to the point, a lecturer specifically is not a professor. An instructor is anybody who teaches anything.


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## William Stein

k-in-sc said:


> More to the point, a lecturer specifically is not a professor. An instructor is anybody who teaches anything.



Exactly, an instructor is anybody who teaches anything so it's not impressive at all. In all probability they're professors for the reasons I've explained 1,000,000 times already but if they're not, they're at least lecturers, which is also an impressive academic title to anybody familiar with the English language. The solution I already gave in #23 covers both possibilties and lets the client decide based on the actual situation. In any case, instructor is completely out of place.


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## Roberto_Mendoza

The thing that makes me hesitant to use the word "professor" is the language of the original ad: *docentes* especializados *con la excelencia que el mercado internacional requiere.

*The word "docente" means teacher in a general sense, not necessarily at the higher education level. Additionally, the appeal to the "international market" is unusual for a well-established university, even for a serious business school. It sounds like a like a school that is tailored for people who need to get a degree while they work or something similar. Usually, those schools might employ teachers who are already in business or working in the field that the students aspire to break into, and thereby they provide real-world experience; or at least that is how they often market themselves.  I am by no means trying to dismiss that type of school; they fulfill a need. That is why I was hesitant to equate that type of instructor with a university professor. However, without some clarification from Caliban, this is all speculation on my part.

Maybe both William's and k-in-sc's suggestions could work, contingent on Caliban's input:

1. expert/specialized instructors
2. expert/specialized lecturers


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## Caliban

Roberto_Mendoza said:


> The thing that makes me hesitant to use the word "professor" is the language of the original ad: *docentes* especializados *con la excelencia que el mercado internacional requiere.
> 
> *The word "docente" means teacher in a general sense, not necessarily at the higher education level. Additionally, the appeal to the "international market" is unusual for a well-established university, even for a serious business school. It sounds like a like a school that is tailored for people who need to get a degree while they work or something similar. Usually, those schools might employ teachers who are already in business or working in the field that the students aspire to break into, and thereby they provide real-world experience; or at least that is how they often market themselves.  I am by no means trying to dismiss that type of school; they fulfill a need. However, that is why I was hesitant to equate that type of instructor with a university professor. However, without some clarification from Caliban, this is all speculation on my part.
> 
> Maybe both William's and k-in-sc's suggestions could work, contingent on Caliban's input:
> 
> 1. expert/specialized instructors
> 2. expert/specialized lecturers



It is a big university, not a school, though it only offers engineering majors. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) professors here in Peru don't need to have a PhD like in the US to teach a class in university. If you are a respected lawyer, for example (no Phd needed), you can lecture in the most important universities of the country (I know this for a fact). You just need to have experience in your field and that's it...but to us, they are "professors" (the thing is that in Spanish, professors and teachers are the same word: profesores).  

Thank you all for your help. I appreciate it


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## William Stein

Caliban said:


> It is a big university, not a school, though it only offers engineering majors. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) professors here in Peru don't need to have a PhD like in the US to teach a class in university. If you are a respected lawyer, for example (no Phd needed), you can lecture in the most important universities of the country (I know this for a fact). You just need to have experience in your field and that's it...but to us, they are "professors" (the thing is that in Spanish, professors and teachers are the same word: profesores).
> 
> Thank you all for your help. I appreciate it



In that case they have the title of Professor wherever they go. I taught at the University of Tetuan in Morocco and I was called a professor and I don't hesitate to mention my professional experience as a professor. I happen to have a PhD but that has nothing to do with it. Whenever international experts attend a conference they are introduced by their titles in their home country. Nobody scrutizines their titles to decide whether they really deserve that title according to the specific standards of a certain country.  Imagine if the French did that when they had the Doctorat d'Etat, which was much more demanding than the US PhD. They could refuse to recognize the title of the US PhDs because they didn't meet the requirements of the French system.


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## Roberto_Mendoza

Caliban said:


> It is a big university, not a school, though it only offers engineering majors. I believe (correct me if I'm wrong) professors here in Peru don't need to have a PhD like in the US to teach a class in university. If you are a respected lawyer, for example (no Phd needed), you can lecture in the most important universities of the country (I know this for a fact). You just need to have experience in your field and that's it...but to us, they are "professors" (the thing is that in Spanish, professors and teachers are the same word: profesores).
> 
> Thank you all for your help. I appreciate it



Entonces quizá "expert lecturer" funcione. Estuve viendo las plantas docentes de la Pontificia y San Marcos, y utilizan "docente", con la aclaración del rango: principal, asociado, asistente, etc. Saludos.


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## Caliban

Gracias Roberto. Thank you William and k-in-sc


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