# An exam for universities?



## Binapesi

Hello everyone.
I want to ask a question about the university education system in your countries.

In Turkiye, there is made an exam called Öğrenci Seçme Sınavı. Shortly ÖS(e)S(e), means The Student Choosing Exam for Universities. 
It's made every year in June. The last year students of high schools or those who graduated high school have this exam to be able to go to the university they want. Every university and every major have different limited marks that are to get in this exam (i hope the sentence isn't mistaken ). 
The highest marked majors are medicine, computer engineering (of course the mark changes as to the university), industry engineering etc. ..
The questions that are asked in the exam contains the staff that are taught in your 4-year-high-school education. I mean, it's really difficult and complicated. Some students get pysicological problems because of the exam, some collapses and some decides to have a shot on this crazy exam next year. Et cetera ..

Do you have such an exam in your country or is it enough to graduate a high school to get into the university you want or what is the system?


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## Vanda

Yes, we also have these exams for entrance in a university. We call it vestibular. Medicine and Communications are always the most wanted majors and the total grade that enables a contestant to enter these specific courses varies from 9,8 to 9,9 in 10. Regularly there are 28 to 301 contestants disputing just 1 vacancy! The exams are based on all the subjects from the 4 high school years just like yours. And  you can figure it out by the number of vacancies and contestants they are really difficult.

An example of the last exam in the most prestigious university in my state: 4.674 vacancies disputed by 62.883 contestant. The history is almost the same for the rest of universities throughout the country: very few vacancies and a huge number of contestants disputing them.


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## Etcetera

Hi Keyt.

In Russia, universities and colleges normally have their own entrance exams. 
But several years ago the government lauched an ambitious project called "United State Exam". Pupils take exams in their final year and score "points" (100 points is maximum), and then they can apply to a university or college if their score is high enough for this university or college, so they don't need to take entrance exams. 
By now, most universities recognise the results of this exam, but some prestigiuos universities (including Moscow University) don't. They only trust their own exams.


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## sarcie

Keyt said:


> Hello everyone.
> ... The Student Choosing Selection Exam for Universities.


I don't speak Turkish, so this is just a suggestion for your translation - we normally speak of student selection. 

In Ireland, students who complete secondary education sit the Leaving Certificate. Each student is examined in a number of subjects of their choice - the minimum is six. Most students take seven or eight, to have "safety subjects" if one of their core six do not go well. The results are given individually (in the form of grades, A, B, C, etc. and sub-grades, A1, A2, B1, B2, B3, etc.) and each grade is worth a number of points (A1 = 100 pts, A2 = 90 pts, etc.). The points corresponding to a student's 6 best grades are added up, giving a total. 

Every year, universities assess the demand for each course they offer and assign each course a points requirement depending on how high the demand is. The highest demand subjects are medicine, dentistry and actuarial studies (all around 580 out of a possible 600 points - at least they were when I sat my Leaving!). 

There are three obligatory subjects in the Leaving (Maths, English & Irish) and most universities require a pass-grade in two of the three, if not all three for basic entrance requirements. Then certain courses have particular requirements (for example, you have to have achieved a certain grade in a modern language to study that language at university level).

Looking back on my post, it sounds much more complex than it is. I probably could have been more concise. 

The Leaving Cert system has a lot of advantages and disadvantages - there are arguments every single year about putting 17/18-year olds through the stress of sitting these exams all in one period and not allowing for continuous assessment or coursework. And there's always constant debate about the number of students applying for the "high point" courses because they don't want to "waste" all their hard work or due to pressure from parents, even though they may have no interest in medicine, dentristry or whatever.


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## Binapesi

sarcie said:


> I don't speak Turkish, so this is just a suggestion for your translation - we normally speak of student selection.



Thank you for correcting my mistake  ..

I didn't know Turkish students aren't the only ones who are up to this difficulty.



sarcie said:


> The Leaving Cert system has a lot of advantages and disadvantages - there are arguments every single year about putting 17/18-year olds through the stress of sitting these exams all in one period and not allowing for continuous assessment or coursework. And there's always constant debate about the number of students applying for the "high point" courses because they don't want to "waste" all their hard work or due to pressure from parents, even though they may have no interest in medicine, dentristry or whatever.



Same in here.
When our adviser teacher asks to friends which university or which major they want, they answer as whereever we win. No aim, no idealism. And the pressure from parents .. I think it is the hardest one to cope with.



Vanda said:


> An example of the last exam in the most prestigious university in my state: 4.674 vacancies disputed by 62.883 contestant. The history is almost the same for the rest of universities throughout the country: very few vacancies and a huge number of contestants disputing them.



Last year, 1.678.383 people had the OSS and the universities' quota was 356.512. Very bad ..


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## Eáránë

Hey,

In my country (Belgium) only few students have to take an entrance exam. It depends on the courses they want to take at university. If you want to study medecine for example, you have to take an exam. 

I'm not sure if there are still other courses for which you have to take an entrance exam, but I know that most courses don't do it (anymore). If you want to study language and literature for example, you don't have to take one.

This means that if you want to go to university, you can simply do so by enrolling yourself. Anyone can try and find out whether they are fit for university, but this implies that a lot of students give up at the end of their first year (or even during their first year at university). Luckily there are also 'hogescholen' (= "high schools") in my country that you can go to after secondary school. These schools also teach you a profession, but the level of education is a bit 'lower' than at university.

Toodles
Eáránë


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## Musical Chairs

The closest thing I can think of to what you're talking about is the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT) in the US, or the ACT which is similar but is taken more by students in the south. The SAT has writing (new in 2006), verbal, and math sections that are supposed to test you on "how well you take the SAT" but more honestly it tests you on your reading comprehension, vocabulary, and writing/quantitative skills. There are many prep classes for this but most people don't stress too much about it, as there are many other factors that influence whether you get into college (grades, personal statements, teacher recommendations, etc).

Edit: And it doesn't test you necessarily on what you learned in high school, but your general comprehension abilities. Some people have terrible grades but very good SAT scores. For medical school, undergrad (and sometimes grad) students take the MCAT. This is much harder and more important than the SAT.


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## Lugubert

In Sweden, your report card after 9+3 years of school is the major deciding factor. For those who have completed fewer years, there's a nation-wide test. For many university subjects, there's a certain percentage of seats reserved for this group.


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## jess oh seven

In the UK there is no standardised college/univerisity entrance exam. I'm not sure about courses like medicine and law, but generally your entrance to university is based on your secondary school exam grades.


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## -Epic-

here (israel) you got "bagrut" exams (1 or more exam in every subject you study in high school). some subjects are a must, others are choise (and some give bonuses). each subject has 3,4 or 5 point test the lower the number the easyer it is. you need atleast all must tests and a minimum of 21 points. after that they take all your grades and calculate the best score you can get by removing some of the choice tests.

4 or 6 times a year there is another test held by the universtiys and it includes hebrew,english and math it's a 6 hours test and it's supposed to tell how good your servival chances are in a university. (if in 7 years you didn't get into a university you do it again)

both test together make a final grade and that grade is used. if you score exciptionally high in the "bagruts" or the university test you don't need both to get in and you usually won't have to pay 

each university decides its own minimums for every subject.

afew subjects like (mainly health related) have another test.


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## kiyama

hi
In Catalonia we have "la sel·lectivitat", which is an exam taken by students who want to go to university. there are 4 given subjects, Catalan, Spanish, foreign language (english, french...) and either phylosophy or history. Then you must choose some of your "assignatures de modalitat" (the ones you chose to do in baccaleaurate, 'cause the others are compulsory for everybody). That means you do more or less 7 exams in three days, and they are based in the contents of the 2nd year of baccaleaurate (17 -18 y. old).
then they take your baccaleaurate (60%) and sel·lectivitat marks (40%) and that's your university entering mark. The highest marks get the entrance until the number of vancancies is covered.
kiyama


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## martinka! :)

In Germany and Italy it depens on what you want to study. If you want to study medicine in Italy, you will have to take an entrance-exame in order get a place at university. It's an exam about general culture, maths, phisics and so on, and you can buy a huge exercice-book in order to prepare. People study all sommer long and don't pass. Sometimes also depends on your connections there.. Sad but true, expecially in the south..!
In Germany, always for medicine, it depends on your Abitur (=final exam)mark. You apply to a central insitution and tell them your final mark and 2 preferences of universities where you would like to go to and they decide. They can send you to your 1rst choice place, if you had a very good note, or to some other place in Germany or you can even don't get a place, depending on the marks of the other appliers that year.
If you want to study humanities you don't have to take any exam to come in..


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## Musical Chairs

I think it's good to have a standardized test, at least in the US because schools and teachers are all different. It's good to have one thing in admissions that is entirely objective.


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## tvdxer

Keyt said:


> Hello everyone.
> I want to ask a question about the university education system in your countries.
> 
> In Turkiye, there is made an exam called Öğrenci Seçme Sınavı. Shortly ÖS(e)S(e), means The Student Choosing Exam for Universities.
> It's made every year in June. The last year students of high schools or those who graduated high school have this exam to be able to go to the university they want. Every university and every major have different limited marks that are to get in this exam (i hope the sentence isn't mistaken ).
> The highest marked majors are medicine, computer engineering (of course the mark changes as to the university), industry engineering etc. ..
> The questions that are asked in the exam contains the staff that are taught in your 4-year-high-school education. I mean, it's really difficult and complicated. Some students get pysicological problems because of the exam, some collapses and some decides to have a shot on this crazy exam next year. Et cetera ..
> 
> Do you have such an exam in your country or is it enough to graduate a high school to get into the university you want or what is the system?



In the United States, most (but not all) universities (or "colleges" as we often call them here) require a high school diploma or GED (equivalent) and and SAT or ACT test results.  The SAT was traditionally the test you took to get into East and West Coast Universities, the ACT for Midwestern schools; however, it seems that most schools across the country now accept both.

The SAT, since 2005, has three sections, writing, math, and verbal.  Each is scored on a scale of 200 to 800, with 500 being average.  The three are summed together to get a composite score between 600 and 2400.  

Prior to 2005, there were only math and verbal sections.  A typical pre-2005 score for a college applicant would be about 1000 to 1200.  

The ACT has English, math, science, and writing parts.  Each is scored on a scale of 0 to 36.  A composite score is determined from these.  Average is about 17 - 25.  

Most of the time, universities do not require set ACT or SAT scores


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## Musical Chairs

Are you kidding? Almost all schools I've heard of in the US require an ACT or SAT score, maybe this is mostly for East Coast schools though. I'm not familiar with small schools in the Midwest/West Coast.


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## Dawei

Musical Chairs said:


> Are you kidding? Almost all schools I've heard of in the US require an ACT or SAT score, maybe this is mostly for East Coast schools though. I'm not familiar with small schools in the Midwest/West Coast.



I think he means a fixed score, i.e. no university has the policy "we absolutely will not accept anyone who scores below 2000"


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## Keikikoka

Musical Chairs said:


> Are you kidding? Almost all schools I've heard of in the US require an ACT or SAT score, maybe this is mostly for East Coast schools though. I'm not familiar with small schools in the Midwest/West Coast.



I believe this poster means that US universities do not require a _specific_ SAT score for approval.


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## Musical Chairs

Keikikoka said:


> I believe this poster means that US universities do not require a _specific_ SAT score for approval.



Ooops. Missed "set" there


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## tvdxer

Musical Chairs said:


> Are you kidding? Almost all schools I've heard of in the US require an ACT or SAT score, maybe this is mostly for East Coast schools though. I'm not familiar with small schools in the Midwest/West Coast.



I said "most".  There are a few that don't.  I can't recall any of the names right now.


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## SaritaSarang

Keyt said:


> Hello everyone.
> I want to ask a question about the university education system in your countries.
> 
> In Turkiye, there is made an exam called Öğrenci Seçme Sınavı. Shortly ÖS(e)S(e), means The Student Choosing Exam for Universities.
> It's made every year in June. The last year students of high schools or those who graduated high school have this exam to be able to go to the university they want. Every university and every major have different limited marks that are to get in this exam (i hope the sentence isn't mistaken ).
> The highest marked majors are medicine, computer engineering (of course the mark changes as to the university), industry engineering etc. ..
> The questions that are asked in the exam contains the staff that are taught in your 4-year-high-school education. I mean, it's really difficult and complicated. Some students get pysicological problems because of the exam, some collapses and some decides to have a shot on this crazy exam next year. Et cetera ..
> 
> Do you have such an exam in your country or is it enough to graduate a high school to get into the university you want or what is the system?


 
In Oklahoma, U.S.A, you must take a test called the ACT, (some colleges require you to take the SAT instead )  Its a pretty thorough test, but not too hard, and a score somewhere in the 20's is pretty good. Most colleges require that you make a certain score on either one of these tests for you to enter. Also grade point average is a deciding factor. But its definatly not such a big deal that it would lead to mental health problems or extreme stress, i mean, you can take the ACT as many times as you want until you get the score you want.


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## Musical Chairs

Yea, but it looks bad if you take it too much (colleges DO see every score, and they don't tend to go up very much).

Colleges don't say that you need a certain score to get in, but if your score is significantly lower than their average, chances are very good that you won't get in. I'd explain how people who get in with very low SAT scores but I'm afraid that'll make this thread go in the wrong direction.


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## vince

In Canada there is no standardized test to obtain the high school diploma (unlike the French baccalaureate) or to enter into university/college (unlike the U.S. SATs)

So if you were unfortunate enough to go to a school that gives low marks, you're screwed because that's usually the only thing the university takes into account of when you apply.


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## Musical Chairs

Do people switch out of those schools to go to schools that give high marks then?


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## Chaska Ñawi

vince said:


> In Canada there is no standardized test to obtain the high school diploma (unlike the French baccalaureate) or to enter into university/college (unlike the U.S. SATs)
> 
> So if you were unfortunate enough to go to a school that gives low marks, you're screwed because that's usually the only thing the university takes into account of when you apply.



In Ontario there is a standardized English test administered to Grade 10 students, without which they cannot graduate.  Many people consider that the test, which is based on prior knowledge as well as abilities in English, is unfairly biased against the vocational students.  These kids still need to graduate to get into most trades, but are in programs for functional literacy (ie, resume writing) rather than research and the development of their ability to craft essays.

Standardized math and literacy testing has been the rule for most of the last decade in Grades 3 and 6 here.  There is an ongoing (and endless) debate about reintroducing more testing at the secondary level.


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## DearPrudence

For *France*: short answer: no 
A bit longer now:
At the end of high school, there is "le baccalauréat" (national exam) which is a nice diploma to have & which is considered (by parents) important to have (sorry for my grammar).
But the results you get at this exam won't have any importance & you can register in any university (I'm only talking about universities & not the whole thing of "prépas, grandes écoles, ..." which is a different system).
Well, I think there's nothing much I could add 

ps: please don't hesitate to point at my mistake so that at least what I say makes sense a bit


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## a_catarina

Hi!

Here in Portugal everybody has to take National Exams in order to finish High Shool. If you want to go to the University (no matter which one) you have to try to have the highest score because people enter i the chosen degrees by their National Exams classification.
These exams are taken at the same time in all High Schools in the country. For example, Portuguese exam is taken on Monday at 9 a.m. in every single school, History exame on Wednesday 2 p.m. and so on.
When you go to High School you choose a "group" of studies that you want to take (Humanities, Natural Ciences, Economics, Arts) depending on the degree you want to apply for.
Then, if you want to take a degree on Portuguese and English Literature you must take National exams for all the couses you took, but the score you have in the Portuguese and in the English exams counts more than the others. These are called the Specifics. If you want to go to Medical School you should go to the Natural Sciences group and your Specific will be Biology or something like that.
Then there is a National contest when all the appliants enter the degrees they chose by order of classification. If the vacancies for the degree you chose are all filled and you didn't have enough classification, you'll enter your second choice of degree and so on. It sounds a little complicated...I hope I made it clear enough.


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## Musical Chairs

DearPrudence said:


> For *France*: short answer: no
> A bit longer now:
> At the end of high school, there is "le baccalauréat" (national exam) which is a nice diploma to have & which is considered (by parents) important to have (sorry for my grammar).
> But the results you get at this exam won't have any importance & you can register in any university (I'm only talking about universities & not the whole thing of "prépas, grandes écoles, ..." which is a different system).
> Well, I think there's nothing much I could add
> 
> ps: please don't hesitate to point at my mistake so that at least what I say makes sense a bit



Does "le baccalauréat" help you get better jobs once you graduate high school? Is it hard to get? Do most people get it?

Did you mean that the parents consider it important for them to have, or for their children to have (or both)?

So anybody can go to any university, provided they can pay and have graduated high school?


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## DearPrudence

Musical Chairs said:


> Does "le baccalauréat" help you get better jobs once you graduate high school?


As I see it: no. Even with a degree it's hard to find anything so with the bac only ...  All the more as more & more students pass it now.



Musical Chairs said:


> Did you mean that the parents consider it important for them to have, or for their children to have (or both)?


What parents usually say is "passe ton bac d'abord" (and then you'll do whatever you want). I suppose they think it's good for their children as it's always good to finish high school in a way?
Well, to be honest, to register in a university, you must have le bac or an equivalent so they feel better if they know that even after a few years of wandering & doing "nothing" you can go back on the right track & decide to go to university thanks to your bac.

Voilà, just my view, but I'm sure it's not as simple as that


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## Binapesi

a_catarina said:


> Hi!
> 
> Here in Portugal everybody has to take National Exams in order to finish High Shool. If you want to go to the University (no matter which one) you have to try to have the highest score because people enter i the chosen degrees by their National Exams classification.
> These exams are taken at the same time in all High Schools in the country. For example, Portuguese exam is taken on Monday at 9 a.m. in every single school, History exame on Wednesday 2 p.m. and so on.
> When you go to High School you choose a "group" of studies that you want to take (Humanities, Natural Ciences, Economics, Arts) depending on the degree you want to apply for.
> Then, if you want to take a degree on Portuguese and English Literature you must take National exams for all the couses you took, but the score you have in the Portuguese and in the English exams counts more than the others. These are called the Specifics. If you want to go to Medical School you should go to the Natural Sciences group and your Specific will be Biology or something like that.
> Then there is a National contest when all the appliants enter the degrees they chose by order of classification. If the vacancies for the degree you chose are all filled and you didn't have enough classification, you'll enter your second choice of degree and so on. It sounds a little complicated...I hope I made it clear enough.



So, you have just one chance to get a good score, right? One can take these exams just one time in his/her life. And you must choose a university (a good or a bad one) as to these marks. Can every high-school-graduate go to a university? Is the quota of the universities so large? And what if one's marks aren't good for medicine and he/she wants to study medicine crazily.
And one more question, as I understand, you say, one who wants to study medicine in university takes biology, chemistry maybe and etc lessons. What if he/she gives up becoming a doctor and decides to become a journalist for example. Can we reach to such a result that he/she must have decided what occupation they want when they start high school and they can't change their mind.


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## Etcetera

Keyt said:


> So, you have just one chance to get a good score, right? One can take these exams just one time in his/her life. And you must choose a university (a good or a bad one) as to these marks. Can every high-school-graduate go to a university? Is the quota of the universities so large? And what if one's marks aren't good for medicine and he/she wants to study medicine crazily.


When I was leaving school, the system was different: we took school exams, and then we took entrance exams at a university/college of our choice - and everything depended on the marks we got in these entrance exams. 
As I understood, school-leavers now have the right, if they aren't satisfied with their marks for their final exams at school, to take these exams once more, but only after a year. 
If their marks are still too low to apply to a university of their choice... well, they'll have to choose another university. After all, if a person is going to become a doctor, they just have to have excellent knowledge of every subject needed.


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## a_catarina

Keyt said:


> So, you have just one chance to get a good score, right? One can take these exams just one time in his/her life. And you must choose a university (a good or a bad one) as to these marks. Can every high-school-graduate go to a university? Is the quota of the universities so large? And what if one's marks aren't good for medicine and he/she wants to study medicine crazily.
> And one more question, as I understand, you say, one who wants to study medicine in university takes biology, chemistry maybe and etc lessons. What if he/she gives up becoming a doctor and decides to become a journalist for example. Can we reach to such a result that he/she must have decided what occupation they want when they start high school and they can't change their mind.


 
Hi Keyt.

You can take the exams as many times as you want. You just have to wait one year for the next Exame Season.
You you are in the Sciences Group and you decide to take jounalism or history or anything from another area, you can try to take the Specifics for these degrees (Portuguese or History) by studying for them by yourself or you can do High School all over again, or simply attend for one more year to the Specifics classes and do the exams in the end of the year. Acctually I have a friend who was in the Sciences group and in the end of High School she decided to take a degree in Linguistics, so she studied for the Advanced Portuguese exam by herself and she passed.
Any high school graduate can go to the university as long as he or she as passed in the National Exams with enough score to get in the degree he chose.
You can apply every year until you go to the degree you want, but you have to the the Specif exam every year (not all the exams).


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## Binapesi

a_catarina said:


> Hi Keyt.
> 
> You can take the exams as many times as you want. You just have to wait one year for the next Exame Season.
> You you are in the Sciences Group and you decide to take jounalism or history or anything from another area, you can try to take the Specifics for these degrees (Portuguese or History) by studying for them by yourself or you can do High School all over again, or simply attend for one more year to the Specifics classes and do the exams in the end of the year. Acctually I have a friend who was in the Sciences group and in the end of High School she decided to take a degree in Linguistics, so she studied for the Advanced Portuguese exam by herself and she passed.
> Any high school graduate can go to the university as long as he or she as passed in the National Exams with enough score to get in the degree he chose.
> You can apply every year until you go to the degree you want, but you have to the the Specif exam every year (not all the exams).



Got it now. A bit like Oss (the university entrance exam in Turkiye) ..

So there always is an exam to be able to go to a university in almost every country. I'll have mine on this June ..


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## ~ceLine~

Keyt said:


> Last year, 1.678.383 people had the OSS and the universities' quota was 356.512. Very bad ..


 
As Keyt said OSS is really bad. You have to reply 180 questions. Then you got your points. The school give you points also (from 50 to 80). It changes to your points at school. It's very complicated to explain. Just i can say that is crap ..!


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## ILT

México does have its share of exams too. We have to take the exams to finish high school (preparatoria), and then, regardless of the grades, take an exam at the university of choice to be selected. As usual, the best universities have a lot of students taking the admission exam and a limited number of seats available. Any student can take the exam, but admittance does depend on the grade received only.

Back in the day, when I applied I had to take an exam designed and graded by the university itself. Now, I'm told there is a standardized exam that tests the knowledge the students acquired during their _preparatoria_. I also had to take an admission exam when I decided to work on my master's degree, I'm pretty sure most universities here make students take it even for graduate school.


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