# What is the name for #? Octothorp.



## skell obissis

I am trying to determine if the # (number symbol, pound sign) symbol is refered to as an "octitrobe", or some symilar name.

<< Deleted for thread-splitting >>

Thanks,

Tony


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## JamesM

I believe the pound sign is called an "octothorpe", but not commonly, <<...>>

I'm sure that's clear as mud.


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## skell obissis

how exaclty do u pronounce octothorpe?

How exactly do you prounounce octothorpe?


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## JamesM

"Oc-" to rhyme with "talk"
"to-" to sound exactly like "toe"
"thorpe" to rhyme with "Corp."

Welcome to the forum, by the way, skell obissis!

(Please write in standard English with punctuation and capitalization and avoid text messaging abbreviations; these are some of the rules you can find in the sticky thread at the top of the forum.)


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## JamesM

Just an added note... the # symbol is most commonly called the pound sign or the number sign in the U.S.


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## winklepicker

# = hash in BE


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## JamesM

winklepicker said:


> # = hash in BE


 
Thanks for mentioning that, winklepicker.  I've heard that, too, although usually with "mark" afterward: "hash mark".   I don't think it's nearly as common for us in the U.S. as pound sign or number sign.


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## panjandrum

JamesM said:


> Thanks for mentioning that, winklepicker. I've heard that, too, although usually with "mark" afterward: "hash mark". I don't think it's nearly as common for us in the U.S. as pound sign or number sign.


We don't use # to signify number or pounds in my bit of BE.


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## mplsray

JamesM said:


> "Oc-" to rhyme with "talk"
> "to-" to sound exactly like "toe"
> "thorpe" to rhyme with "Corp."


 
_Merriam-Webster's Online Dictionary_ shows primary stress on the first syllable (which it shows as having the vowel in _mop,_ not the vowel in _talk_), secondary stress on the last syllable.

It gives a variant pronunciation in which the middle syllable is pronounced with a schwa ("tuh").

It also gives _octothorp_ as a variant spelling.


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## Brioche

skell obissis said:


> I am trying to determine if the # (number symbol, pound sign) symbol is refered to as an "octitrobe", or some symilar name.
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Tony


 
In Australia, on telephone key pads, that symbol is called "hash".

So if you're recharging your mobile [cell] phone, for example, the voice says "Please enter your 12-digit recharge number. Please do not press hash".


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## rafaelgan

What do you call this #?


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## RocketGirl

In Canada we say "pound".  When I lived in Australia it was "hash".

I don't know about other countries.


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## skyblue96

It can just mean "number". For example, #1 would be "number 1".


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## mplsray

skyblue96 said:


> It can just mean "number". For example, #1 would be "number 1".


 
In the US it was most often called "the number sign" until phones came along with number pads. Since there was the danger that people would be confused if you told them to "press the number key" on a pad full of keys with numbers on them, in telephone contexts # was referred to as "the pound sign." This was a reference to another use of the symbol as a stand-in for "pound(s)," so that "5#" meant "five pounds (in weight)."


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## skyblue96

oh sweet. i never knew that about phones. =]]


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## Suehil

In BE it is 'hash' never the pound sign - that would be £


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## Orange Blossom

Suehil said:


> In BE it is 'hash' never the pound sign - that would be £



The # used for pounds is for a different kind of pound I believe.  Unless I am greatly mistaken here, the £ is used for the monetary pound in England.  I have 6 pounds 5 shillings, or 6 £ 5 (whatever the symbol for shillings is).

The pound in question in the United States is a unit of weight.  He weighs 50 pounds.  He weighs 50 lbs.  He weighs 50 #.  Hmm.  Not in this context. I think this usage of the # for pounds is generally used on packages and postal meters.

I didn't know that # was called a hash mark.  I always thought _hash mark_ referred to something else.

Orange Blossom


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## panjandrum

I don't know how the # is used to signify pounds (weight) in the US, but the currency pound symbol, £, always precedes the number.  So an amount of money, say four pounds 23 pence, would be written as £4.23.

I should also point out that we haven't used shillings since 1971.  However, just for completeness, an amount of four pounds, four shillings and ninepence would have been written as £4/4/9.


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## Giordano Bruno

It also raises the note next to it by one semitone and it's called a "sharp"


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## moo mouse

Also, in BE it is never the 'harsh mark' (as JamesM said it was in the US) but the hash key, as in 'please enter your account number followed by the hash key'.
Or it can be referred to as the 'sharp' sign, but only ever in a musical context.


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## panjandrum

moo mouse said:


> Also, in BE it is never the 'hash mark' (as JamesM said it was in the US) but the hash key, as in 'please enter your account number followed by the hash key'.
> Or it can be referred to as the 'sharp' sign, but only ever in a musical context.


Never?  That's very brave  
It was hash mark when I first came across it, or simply hash.  That's from way back before ATMs and electronic keyboards.

The key marked with # is the hash key, of course.


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## moo mouse

Oh, well I have never heard that! Perhaps I have just never come across it except on a key!


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## Brioche

Orange Blossom said:


> The # used for pounds is for a different kind of pound I believe.  Unless I am greatly mistaken here, the £ is used for the monetary pound in England.  I have 6 pounds 5 shillings, or 6 £ 5 (whatever the symbol for shillings is).
> 
> The pound in question in the United States is a unit of weight.  He weighs 50 pounds.  He weighs 50 lbs.  He weighs 50 #.
> 
> Orange Blossom



The £ symbol for pound comes from the initial L of the Latin "*l*ibra", and was also used in Italy as a symbol for the Lira - which also derives from the Latin "libra".

lb as a symbol for a pound weight also comes from the Latin "*l*i*b*ra".

Shillings were represented by / called a solidus. The solidus derives from the long s which looks like f in old books.  
Five shillings was written 5/-; Five shillings and 3 pence 5/3; and 6 pounds 5 shillings was written £6/5/-

Originally, 240 Saxon silver pennies weighed one pound - so once upon a time there was a direct connexion between the unit of weight and the unit of currency.

In Germany they use a twiddly variation of lb as a symbol for Pfund = 500g.
You can see it on this Wikipedia page:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfund

It seems to me that # meaning pound, could easily have been derived from the German symbol.


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## mplsray

Brioche said:


> In Germany they use a twiddly variation of lb as a symbol for Pfund = 500g.
> You can see it on this Wikipedia page:
> http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pfund
> 
> It seems to me that # meaning pound, could easily have been derived from the German symbol.


 
The Wikipedia article for the number sign, 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_sign

cites _The Romance of Writing_ by Keith Gordon Irwin in which the author attributes # for _pound_ to Italian business clerks' hurried way of writing _lb_ for _libbra,_ a weight close to the avoirdupois pound.


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## piotr1980

Hello,

How do you call the sigh *#* in English ( something like ''pound''??//)

Itwhat I can hear in my cell phone while listening to the voice messages :
*''Please enter your code and press #* ''

Many thanks
Piotr


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## EvilWillow

BrE: hash key
AmE: pound key


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## Tabac

EvilWillow said:


> BrE: hash key
> AmE: pound key


 In AmE, this symbol has traditionally been used for weights = it weighs 73# (pounds).  Rather confusing because we would also use it as in "question #3" = the third question.


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## Brioche

In Australia we usually say _.... press hash_.


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## piotr1980

Hello,
how do you call this sign in English *#*

Many thanks
Piotr


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## P1ofTiffielle

That is a number sign. Is that the answer you were looking for?


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## xtrasystole

The sharp sign, the sharp symbol (?)


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## Mouquiette

It's called "Sharp"


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## domangelo

It is the sharp sign only in musical notation. In American English it is called "the pound sign", but I don't know why, since it doesn't refer either to weight pounds or monetary pounds. Automated phone services always tell you to "Press the pound sign". What do they tell you to appuyer in French?

Oh, sorry! I actually thought I was in the English/French forum!


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## Gutenberg

piotr1980 said:


> Hello,
> how do you call this sign in English *#*
> 
> Many thanks
> Piotr



This sign is "the number sign". But it depends on the context, if
used for music, then it is not the number sign.


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## The Scrivener

In BE it is also known as the "hash key" on telephones.


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## twen

Agreed, it depends on the context.

Number sign if related to an cardinal number
Sharp if related to a music score
Pound sign if related to weight measurement
Pound key if on the telephone key pad
End of story if placed at the end of a newspaper/magazine article

(Only referring to AE)


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## xtrasystole

The Scrivener said:


> In BE it is also known as the "hash key" on telephones.


The _*hash*_ key? I would really like to know the origin of this word...


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## twen

Perhaps from cross-hatch?

*cross·hatch* (krôs
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





h
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ch
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




, kr
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




s
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




-) 
_tr.v._ *cross·hatched*, *cross·hatch·ing*, *cross·hatch·es* To mark or shade with two or more sets of intersecting parallel lines.

_n._ *1. *A pattern made by such lines.
*2. *The symbol (#).


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## The Scrivener

xtrasystole said:


> The _*hash*_ key? I would really like to know the origin of this word...


 
I'll try and find out for you, xtrasystole.

Meanwhile, the OED gives - (also *hash sign*) (both _BrE_) (_NAmE)_*pound** sign*) [_C_] the symbol ( # ), especially one on a telephone


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## The Scrivener

All I could find was this -

*Octothorp*




*Origin: *The odd name for this ancient sign for numbering derives from _thorpe_, the Old Norse word for a village or farm that is often seen in British placenames. The symbol was originally used in mapmaking, representing a village surrounded by eight fields, so it was named the _octothorp_.

And this -



> Whilst there seems to be general agreement that octothorp(e) refers to the
> hash, pound, pound sign, number, number sign, sharp, (garden) fence,
> crunch, mesh, hex, flash, grid, pig-pen, tictactoe, scratch (mark),
> (garden) gate, hak, oof, rake, sink, corridor, unequal, punch mark,
> crosshatch (#), there is not overall agreement on how this character came to be termed the octothorp in particular. (As an aside, I hadn't realised that it was so common across
> the Atlantic to refer to # as a pound sign even though it is frequently
> used in British email as a *substitute* for the er, pound sign).  Source.


 
Well I never!


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## lablady

Apparently, octothorpe is (was?) used by printers also. See here.

A wonderful word we can use in everyday conversation and impress our friends!


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## xtrasystole

Thank you very much, dear Scrivener .
I would never had thought that so much could be said about that small sign. Very interesting indeed.


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## twen

Yes, by far the most instructive topic of the day!


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## xtrasystole

lablady said:


> Apparently, octothorpe is (was?) used by printers also. See here.


Thank you lablady for the link


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## The Scrivener

You are very welcome, xtrasystole.

Another interesting site.


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## lablady

Adding a little more to the fun, here's another interesting viewpoint.

And another little bit of trivia,


> Its traditional commercial use in the U.S. was such that when it followed a number, it was to be read as "pounds", as in 5# of sugar, and when it preceded a number, it was to be read 'number', as in #2 pencil. Thus the same character in a printer's type case had two uses. Source


 
I have learned a lot today . Up until now, I've always just called it a "pound sign".


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## Dimcl

The Scrivener said:


> You are very welcome, xtrasystole.
> 
> Another interesting site.


 
Slightly off topic here, but I'd be careful about using this site as a reference with respect to this sign. It states:"People in the USA and Canada sometimes wrongly call the hash sign a Pound sign. I think this is probably because on many early computer keyboards the two symbols were on the same key and were given the same ASCII code."

In fact, the "#" sign has been above the "3" for many, many years, including on ancient typewriters long before the computer was a twinkle in anybody's eye. In all of my advanced years (!) and my use of all manner and ages of typewriters, word-processors and computer keyboards, I have never seen the "#" anywhere but above the numeral "3". 

On my 1956 Imperial 66 typewriter, the British "Pound" sign (I can't reproduce it on my keyboard) is above the "1/4" and when I was a young pup using a typewriter for a living, that's where it always was. It is a possibility that on European computer keyboards, the "#" sign was on the same key as the British "pound" sign but I have never seen it on a computer keyboard here in North America. The keyboards, except for small changes (such as getting rid of the British "pound" sign) have remained virtually the same as typewriter keys.


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## panjandrum

Previous thread on the same topic:
_
<<Threads have been merged>>_

I found it by searching for octothorp - which I knew was already explained in the forum.
I don't know how anyone would be expected to find it if they were simply searching for the name of #.


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## NHHL

- Could you please tell me what the mark # is called in English?

Thanks so much!


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## Wondercow

It has different names based on context (for example in medicine it's shorthand for "fracture"); please give us the context for its use.


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## NHHL

Dear Wondercow and other Teachers,

- What is it called on the keyboard of cell phones?  

Thanks a lot!


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## SwissPete

It has many different names, depending on what it is used for, and what country you are in. The following is an extract from an interesting wiki article.





> *Number sign* is a name for the symbol *#*, which is used for a variety of purposes including the designation of a number (for example, "#1" stands for "number one").
> 
> In most English-speaking countries outside North America, the symbol is usually called the *hash mark*, *hash sign* or *hash symbol*. It is also a "hash key" on touch-tone phones in these areas. As used in the United States on touch-tone telephones, the key on phones is referred to as the *pound key*. In Canada, this key is most frequently called the *number sign* key.


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## Wondercow

On phones it's generally call "number sign" or "pound key". See here for more uses and names.

I should add that it can be called "hash key" in countries outside of North America.


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## lablady

On telephones, I've always called it the "pound sign". This previous thread shows that there are several names for the symbol, depending on the variety of English spoken, and the context. I'm particularly fond of "octothorpe". 

(And the previous thread in my link contains a link to yet another previous thread. )


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## SwissPete

> _Last edited by Wondercow; Today at 10:45 PM. Reason: SwissPete: great minds think alike—and so do ours!  _


Or they search the same sources...


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## Ferrydog

I always refer to it as the 'hash sign'.


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## Ann O'Rack

In the UK it is NEVER referred to as the pound sign, because £ is the pound sign. Brits don't use # to refer to numbers either. 

On a phone it's "hash", so you will often hear recorded messages (from banks and other organisations to whom your call is 'really important') asking you to enter lots of information and then "press the hash key".

This post is, of course, purely UK-centric, and the posters from North America are probably completely correct for their location. Yet another example of nations divided by a common language!


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## languageGuy

moo mouse said:


> Or it can be referred to as the 'sharp' sign, but only ever in a musical context.


 
It is also called 'sharp' in the computer language by Microsoft "C#" (cee sharp).


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## natkretep

Just to add that the musical sharp (♯) is actually slightly different from the hash symbol (#). In a sharp, there are two perfectly vertical lines, and the horizontal lines tilt upwards. But yes, I would type 'F# major' rather than 'F♯ major' simply because <#> is much more accessible on the keyboard (just above the right shift key on a UK keyboard) - and of course, Eb rather than E♭.


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## domangelo

JamesM said:


> "Oc-" to rhyme with "talk"
> "to-" to sound exactly like "toe"
> "thorpe" to rhyme with "Corp."


 


"Oc- to rhyme with "talk"?
Maybe in California.


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## natkretep

I'm resurrecting this old thread because there is an interesting article in _The New Yorker _that illustrates the symbol (octothorpe, hashtag, etc.) with Isaac Newton's writing and a printed text from 1698:


> The story of the hashtag begins sometime around the fourteenth century, with the introduction of the Latin abbreviation “lb,” for the Roman term _libra pondo_, or “pound weight.” Like many standard abbreviations of that period, “lb” was written with the addition of a horizontal bar, known as a tittle, or tilde (an example is shown above, right, in Johann Conrad Barchusen’s “Pyrosophia,” from 1698). And though printers commonly cast this barred abbreviation as a single character, it was the rushed pens of scribes that eventually produced the symbol’s modern form: hurriedly dashed off again and again, the barred “lb” mutated into the abstract #.


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