# A Turkish or Arabic proverb?



## sotos

Hello to all. I found a kind of proverb written in old ottoman script, transliterated in Greek  (and by me to latin script) approximately as "Adam tedpir ider, amma Allah takdir ider", here, p. 13. Mecme' ül-lügat It is the equivalent of the English "Man proposes, God disposes".

Is this a Turkish or Arabic proverb?
Thank you.


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## Rallino

It's "tedbir". _Âdem tedbir eder ama Allah takdir eder._ It's not a proverb I've heard before, but it's easily understood of course.


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## drowsykush

sotos said:


> "Man proposes, God disposes".


The Turkish equivalent of this saying is “tedbir kuldan, takdir Allah’tan”, but I don’t think this saying comes from Arabic.


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## sotos

Thank you all for answers


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## elroy

drowsykush said:


> I don’t think this saying comes from Arabic.


I think it does.  The Arabic proverb is العبد يدبر والله يقدر (/alʔabdu judabbiru walla:hu juqaddiru/) (literally, "Kul tedbir eder ve Allah takdir eder").  Both "tedbir" and "takdir," as well as "Allah" of course, are borrowings from Arabic.  

Here it is in calligraphy:


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## drowsykush

I was referring to the English proverb "Man proposes, God disposes," which dates from the 15th century. Do you think the Arabic origin of this proverb is older than the English one?


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## fdb

drowsykush said:


> I was referring to the English proverb "Man proposes, God disposes," which dates from the 15th century. Do you think the Arabic origin of this proverb is older than the English one?


The 15th-century source is not English; it is Latin ("Homo proponit، sed Deus disponit"). The thought is banal enough to have emerged in many different languages.


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## drowsykush

If it’s not the 15th century for English, then what date exactly is this English proverb based on?


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