# ShellFish



## poireau

Bonjour,

comment dit-on "shellfish" en francais?


Merci


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## RuK

"fruits de mer" is similar, but I think technically it might include fish.There doesn't seem to be a completely exact equivalent in my brain.


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## Cath.S.

_Fruits de mer_ doesn't include fish, Ruk, we often say _poissons et fruits de mer_.


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## RuK

I knew I should just have waited till a proper scholar answered!


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## wildan1

isn't it _des crustacés_?


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## Cath.S.

wildan1 said:


> isn't it _des crustacés_?


Lobsters, for instance, are _crustacés _(=crustaceans) but mussels and oysters are not, they are _mollusques _(=molluscs), while urchins are _échinodermes_ (=echinoderms).


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## wildan1

OK, but _fruits de mer _would include fish too--wouldn't that be "seafood," rather than "shellfish"?


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## Cath.S.

I've already said so and I'll say it again, knowing that no native will disagree: _fruits de mer_* does not* include fish.


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## wildan1

wildan1 said:


> OK, but _fruits de mer _would include fish too--wouldn't that be "seafood," rather than "shellfish"?
> 
> I've already said so and I'll say it again, knowing that no native will disagree: _fruits de mer_* does not* include fish.


 
_produits de la mer_ then?


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## poireau

how about "Coquillage" for shellfish?


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## Nicomon

wildan1 said:


> OK, but _fruits de mer _would include fish too--wouldn't that be "seafood," rather than "shellfish"?


 


egueule said:


> I've already said so and I'll say it again, knowing that no native will disagree: _fruits de mer_* does not* include fish.


 
It's understandable that wildan was puzzled... contrary to French, it seems that seafood does include fish in English. As confirmed by this short quote form the GDT



> Note(s) :
> Le terme anglais « seafood » s'applique aux poissons, aux crustacés et aux mollusques alors que le français « fruits de mer » ne désigne que ces deux dernières catégories.


 


poireau said:


> how about "Coquillage" for shellfish?


 
The GDT translates shell*fish *as _crustacés et mollusques _and *sea*shell as _coquillage _(as so would I), however the WR dictionary translates both as _coquillage_.


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## unefemme1

I've always thought _fruits de mer_ would translate into "seafood" in English, but from what i gather, there seems to be a difference between the English definition of "seafood" and the French definition of "fruits de mer"...so perhaps a more correct definition of _fruits de mer_ for English speakers would be "produce of the sea excluding fish"??

More to the point, we still haven't found an equivelant or exact French version of "shellfish"...

Wait, I just found this link: http://www.beyond.fr/food/seafood.html (Natives might check it out) and it translates "shellfish" as_ cigale de mer..._maybe that would work?


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## RuK

cigale de mer is a specific form of shellfish, a bit like a crayfish I think. 

I think* fruits de mer* is OK for shellfish. I was confused initially - it's clear to me now that seafood is the hard one to translate, since it's shellfish plus fish.


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## The MightyQ

The restaurants in this area advertise "coquillage" for shellfish.


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## Nicomon

The MightyQ said:


> The restaurants in this area advertise "coquillage" for shellfish.


 
As specified in the WR dictionary, a « coquillage » is a "mollusc". It wouldn't include lobsters, crabs or shrimps.

The GDT defines shellfish as this:


> Définition :
> Aquatic invertebrates possessing a shell or exoskeleton, usually molluscs or crustaceans


 
For « cigale de mer » I found "Spanish lobster" or "squill fish"... that would be a "shellfish of the crustacean variety"

I believe that it goes like this:
seafood = fish + shellfish = _poissons et fruits de mer_
shellfish = molluscs and crusteceans = _mollusques et crustacés _

shell = carapace ou coquille
Les mollusques (coquillages) ont une coquille = e.g. clams, mussels, oysters, snails (escargots)
Les crustacés ont une carapace = e.g. lobster, crab, shrimp

And "seashells" are the « coquillages » that are found on the beach... you don't eat those

Have I got this right??


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## giannid

For me, seafood does not include fish, but does include things like squid, and pretty much everything but fish.  Doesn't The 
Bible tell us not to eat seafood, but that fish is okay?


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## la reine victoria

I have enjoyed sharing many an "assiette de fruits de mer" in France.  Strictly shellfish.  The fun is in using all the tools provided to crack things open and extract the flesh.  

LRV


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## Nicomon

giannid said:


> For me, seafood does not include fish, but does include things like squid, and pretty much everything but fish. Doesn't The
> Bible tell us not to eat seafood, but that fish is okay?


 
I wouldn't know about the Bible, but I guess you're right that seafood does not necessarily include fish. Same as _fruits de mer_ in French. In which case the GDT would be misleading. Because after all, fish can also be found in lakes and rivers.  

I googled "fish and seafood"


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## giannid

Actually, I just looked at an online Bible, and it talked about scales and fins being okay to eat, and everything else that moves in the sea as not safe to eat.  It didn't mention fish and seafood by name, at least not in this translation (KJV).  However because of this scripture, I think there has to be a word to describe finned and scaled creatures in the sea (fish), and everything else (seafood).

_These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat.

And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you._


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## Nicomon

giannid said:


> However because of this scripture, I think there has to be a word to describe *finned and scaled creatures in the sea* (fish), and everything else (seafood).


I suppose that should be the subject of another thread, but here's one of probably many translations of your above quotes. 



> _Lv 11:9-_Parmi tout ce qui vit dans l'eau, vous pourrez manger ceci. Tout ce qui a nageoires et écailles et vit dans l'eau, mers ou fleuves, vous en pourrez manger.
> _Lv 11:10-_Mais tout ce qui n'a point nageoires et écailles, dans les mers ou dans les fleuves, entre toutes les bestioles des eaux et tous les êtres vivants qui s'y trouvent, vous les tiendrez pour immondes.


 
LRV... I don't listen to the Bible either. Seafood (crustacean shellfish) is delicious.


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## Nicomon

I just found out about this French movie entitled Crustacés et coquillages
which seems to confirm that "shellfish" is especially used to mean "crustaceans" as opposed to "mollusk" = "coquillages"

That's it, I'm off this thread.


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## Cath.S.

Nicomon said:


> I just found out about this French movie entitled Crustacés et coquillages
> which seems to confirm that "shellfish" is especially used to mean "crustaceans" as opposed to "mollusk" = "coquillages"
> 
> That's it, I'm off this thread.


Mussels are seen as shellfish. Wikipedia states that_ shellfish_ is a _culinary_ (not_ zoological_) term:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellfish


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## Nicomon

egueule said:


> Mussels are seen as shellfish. Wikipedia states that_ shellfish_ is a _culinary_ (not_ zoological_) term:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shellfish


 
Mais en français? 
_fish and seafood_ = poissons et fruits de mer
_shellfish _=  encore fruits de mer? Ce serait bêtement un synonyme? On pourrait donc commander au restaurant une "shellfish plate?"

Je n'ai pas raison de penser que _shellfish = crustacés_ (surtout) _et coquillages_? (puisque coquillages ne convient pas pour les bestioles à carapace)

On peut bien sûr commander individuellement des huitres, des moules, des palourdes, des pétoncles, des pattes de crabe, des crevettes, un homard, etc., mais quel est donc le terme générique pour _shellfish_?


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## Percy de Vere

I found this in a previous thread, by AgnèsE.



> I would suggest you to add the word *coquillages* to your list. They are the particular animals with... a shell. *Crustacés* are the ones belonging to the crab/prawn family. *Fruits de mer* is the generic word for both groups together.


 
Sorry I can't post links yet.

Percy


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## Nicomon

Percy de Vere said:


> I found this in a previous thread, by AgnèsE. Sorry I can't post links yet. Percy


 
This is the thread Percy is referring to shellfish allergy and it sort of answers my question in post #23. Thanks. 



I should have thought of checking for previous threads too.


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## Cath.S.

Nicomon said:
			
		

> Mais en français?


En français, les moules sont considérées comme faisant partie des fruits de mer. 
Freedictionary nous dit :
*shell·fish*
_n._ _pl._ *shellfish* or *shell·fish·es* An aquatic animal, such as a mollusk or crustacean, that has a shell or shell-like exoskeleton.

Donc tous les fruits de mer à l'exception des poulpes, calamars et autres animaux dépourvus d'exosquelette, qui tombent dans la catégorie plus générale de seafood.

_Néanmoins,_ dans la plupart des cas, je pense que je traduirais quand même par _fruits de mer_ et non par _crustacés et xoquillages_, par exemple dans ce genre de texte :

_Shellfish fall into two main categories, crustaceans like crabs, shrimp and lobster and mollusks like clams, oysters and squid. Squid (eaten as calamari) along with octopus is a subcategory of mollusks called cephalopods._ 
Source
où l'auteur se fiche apparemment éperdument du type de squelette de la bestiole.


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## Nicomon

Voui. Enfin je savais que les moules font partie des fruits de mer.  D'ailleurs, la définition du Freedictionary ressemble de près à celle du GDT que j'ai mise au post # 15.

Évidemment pour ce qui est de l'exemple de _About,_ il serait plutôt redondant d'écrire _Les crustacés et coquillages se divisent en deux catégories, les crustacés.... et homards et les mollusques.... et calmars.  _

Conclusion : 
en anglais on a _seafood / crustaceans / mollusks/ cephalopods /shellfish_ 
et en français _fruits de mer / crustacés / mollusques / céphalopodes / re... fruits de mer._

Ça m'énerve de traduire par le même terme français deux termes anglais différents ! Le problème c'est qu'en anglais, coquille et carapace = shell dans les deux cas. 
Faudrait inventer un hybride entre crustacés et coquillages, du genre _crustallages_ ou _coquistacés._


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## wildan1

*Faudrait inventer un hybride entre crustacés et coquillages, du genre crustallages ou coquistacés.*

haha c'est trop bon Nicomon.

I _hope_ we all leave that as the last word!!


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## ghoti

giannid said:


> For me, seafood does not include fish, but does include things like squid, and pretty much everything but fish. Doesn't The
> Bible tell us not to eat seafood, but that fish is okay?


 
Not quite. As I recall (I could be wrong), for something that lives in the sea to be edible, it has to have fins and scales. So no shrimp, squid, clams, eel. The whale can eat you, but you can't eat the whale. You'll never get calamari in a kosher restaurant. On the other hand, the New Testament and the Hebrew Scriptures disagree about what people are allowed to eat. So "Bible" is too broad a term here.


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## coiffe

Nicomon said:


> I suppose that should be the subject of another thread, but here's one of probably many translations of your above quotes.
> 
> 
> 
> LRV... I don't listen to the Bible either. Seafood (crustacean shellfish) is delicious.



Well indeed, I would hope we have progressed beyond the prescriptions of Leviticus. After all, in the next chapter, a pregnant woman must sacrifice a lamb and a pigeon two months after giving birth (the exact timetable is determined by whether the child is male or female).

So I would personally take the statements about seafood with a grain of salt (pun intended).


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## coiffe

One serious question, however. Speaking of calamari, how do you say "squishy" in French?

Okay, here's my try: spongieux. Is that the best French colloquial?


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## Punky Zoé

coiffe said:


> One serious question, however. Speaking of calamari, how do you say "squishy" in French?
> 
> Okay, here's my try: spongieux. Is that the best French colloquial?



Hi

Yes, I think you're right (But without have checked it previuosly in the Bible  )


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## coiffe

Merci. (Disons, c'est un merci divers.)


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## geostan

giannid said:


> For me, seafood does not include fish, but does include things like squid, and pretty much everything but fish.  Doesn't The
> Bible tell us not to eat seafood, but that fish is okay?



When I think of seafood as a term, I don't think of fish either, but I suppose it could.

Cheers!


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