# Percolator or moka pot



## cilangi

How would you call this object in the picture that brews coffee? Is it a moka pot or percolator? (Maybe percolator in the UK and moka pot in the US?)
What is the proper word for the sound that it gives when coffee is brewed?
I am interested in UK expressions first of all.
Thank you.


----------



## DonnyB

In BE, it's a percolator.  

I'm not sure how we'd describe the sound it makes.  It_ bubbles_ or _gurgles_, perhaps.


----------



## velisarius

It has the little pressure valve, so I call it a moka coffee pot. A percolator is a simpler version, I think, and less pressure builds up. You could google it.


----------



## suzi br

I never heard the word moka pot though I have used/owned these things. I call them percolators. 
Maybe I'd call it moka pot if anyone had ever taught me there was a difference, as Velisarius says. I'm probably too old to change my ways now. 

When it is working I'd say it gurgles.


----------



## dojibear

I have never heard "moka pot" in the US. 

Wikipedia says the "moka pot" was invented, named and patented in Italy in 1933. It is most popular in Italy, Spain, Portugal and Latin America. Nowadays there are several brands, with various brand names.

Wikipedia says "Moka pots are sometimes referred to as stove-top espresso makers". That is what we would call this in the US: either a "stove-top percolator" or a "stove-top espresso maker".


----------



## You little ripper!

A 'percolator' is what I and most people here would call that. The sound it makes as it does its thing would be a _gurgling sound punctuated by the occasional hissing and spitting.  _


----------



## Juhasz

I don't disagree that many people would call that a percolator, but they would be wrong in doing so.  

Both technologies use a heating element to heat the bottom of the pot in order to force hot water through coffee grounds.  However, there are some key differences in the brewing method used by each device.  

Percolator:




Water boils and is forced up the central tube, gravity pulls the water down through the coffee grounds.  Brewed coffee collects in the bottom of the pot.  The problem with a percolator is, as this diagram clearly shows, the brewed coffee can be boiled again and forced back through the grounds multiple times.


Moka pot:




Water boils and pressure forces it through the central tube, through the coffee grounds.  Brewed coffee collects in the receptacle on top.  The key difference is that the brewed coffee cannot recirculate.




suzi br said:


> I never heard the word moka pot though I have used/owned these things.



I'm in the same boat.  I presently own and use one of these, but did not remember it was properly called a moka pot, or a Moka Express.  I call it a Bialetti, which is the name of the manufacturer.


----------



## london calling

That is a Moka pot/Moka Express. Not the same thing as a percolator at all. A percolator makes what they now call 'Americana' coffee in bars in London. A proper express (espresso) Italian coffee cannot be made using a percolator.


----------



## Loob

I wonder if you and veli both know "moka pot" because of where you live, lc? I think that the only time I've ever come across the term was in a brief discussion elsewhere in these forums - if someone asked me "Have you got a moka pot?" I'd look at them blankly.

I think I'd probably call it a "stove-top coffee maker"

UK appliance stores seem to use various terms: "espresso coffee-maker", "stove-top espresso maker"; "stovetop coffee percolator"....


----------



## london calling

Moka pot from Wikipedia, Loob. In Italian it's known as _la moka _(as well as the Italian expression which means 'coffee machine', literally). 

That said, Wiki also says it is known as 'a stove-top or electric coffee maker'. Not a percolator in any case.


----------



## You little ripper!

london calling said:


> That is a Moka pot/Moka Express. Not the same thing as a percolator at all. A percolator makes what they now call 'Americana' coffee in bars in London. A proper express (espresso) Italian coffee cannot be made using a percolator.


There's no doubt that _Moka pot/Moka Express_ are the proper names for them, but I've never actually heard anyone here use that terminology. It was always 'caffettiera' at home. I must admit I've been a bit of a recluse for a while so things may have changed while I've been stuck at home.


----------



## kentix

I've never heard the term in the U.S. Coffee snobs might know it but I don't think it is a widely known term in American English.


----------



## JulianStuart

Juhasz said:


> I don't disagree that many people would call that a percolator, but they would be wrong in doing so.
> 
> Both technologies use a heating element to heat the bottom of the pot in order to force hot water through coffee grounds.  However, there are some key differences in the brewing method used by each device.
> 
> Percolator:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water boils and is forced up the central tube, gravity pulls the water down through the coffee grounds.  Brewed coffee collects in the bottom of the pot.  The problem with a percolator is, as this diagram clearly shows, the brewed coffee can be boiled again and forced back through the grounds multiple times.
> 
> 
> Moka pot:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Water boils and pressure forces it through the central tube, through the coffee grounds.  Brewed coffee collects in the receptacle on top.  The key difference is that the brewed coffee cannot recirculate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm in the same boat.  I presently own and use one of these, but did not remember it was properly called a moka pot, or a Moka Express.  I call it a Bialetti, which is the name of the manufacturer.


 Good exposition
Key point: "The key difference is that the brewed coffee cannot recirculate."

Both could _technically_ be called percolators because the water percolates through the grounds, one by being
expressed through by pressure, the other dripping though by gravity.  In the lattter, the coffee that has dripped through is then boiled and recirculated a few times (This accounts for the huge difference in taste - and the expression "coffee boiled is coffee spoiled")


----------



## london calling

JulianStuart said:


> Good exposition
> Key point: "The key difference is that the brewed coffee cannot recirculate."
> 
> Both could _technically_ be called percolators because the water percolates through the grounds, one by being
> expressed through by pressure, the other dripping though by gravity.  In the lattter, the coffee that has dripped through is then boiled and recirculated a few times (This accounts for the huge difference in taste - and the expression "coffee boiled is coffee spoiled")


Quite. Percolated coffee tends to taste stewed....


----------



## kentix

The thing is, in the U.S. it's not common at all (in my experience, at least) to make coffee on a stove. People make coffee in coffeemakers, designed for the purpose. The coffee goes in a holder at the top and hot water (from an electric heater) drips through to the pot below. The water only passes through once. But it's not a percolator or a moka pot. (Note: Auto-correct didn't recognize moka)


----------



## RedwoodGrove

As I recall from my parents' coffee making, the percolator could be a stovetop model or, more modernly, have an electric coil right under the coffee receptacle. By definition it would boil the water and then re-boil it as it became infused with coffee - thus making a really unappetizing brew.

I doubt those models are available anymore, but maybe.


----------



## JulianStuart

(The decline of the old percolator has been used as an example in a study of the decline of a product/market, and the introduction of filter coffee appears to have introduced percolator-users to what they had been missing)  Drip and filter coffee makers _technically_ are also percolators but the "boiling bubbling device" long ago cornered the usage market (at least in the US).


----------



## ewie

I call them _those metal pot things you put on a gas ring for making coffee in, bit like a pressure cooker kind of jobbie, you know the thing, I'm probably not explaining this very well.
_
(~lifelong tea-drinker)


----------



## JulianStuart

ewie said:


> I call them _those metal pot things you put on a gas ring for making coffee in, bit like a pressure cooker kind of jobbie, you know the thing, I'm probably not explaining this very well.
> _
> (~lifelong tea-drinker)


I think lerhaps all you need to add is "Italian" to the beginning of the description and you're fine


----------



## ewie

Unfortunately, I always think of them as French: when I lived in that there France I came into daily contact with one of the things ... pity it never occurred to me to ask what it was called


----------



## JulianStuart

ewie said:


> Unfortunately, I always think of them as French: when I lived in that there France I came into daily contact with one of the things ... pity it never occurred to me to ask what it was called


(OK - a bit of context might have helped  )


----------



## ewie

("I didn't think any more context was necessary")


----------



## JulianStuart

ewie said:


> ("I didn't think any more context was necessary")


(It was to do with whether it was French English or an Italian English you were using in your description...)


----------



## velisarius

Loob said:


> I wonder if you and veli both know "moka pot" because of where you live, lc?



I've always known about these coffee pots, because I'm a coffee nerd.


----------



## JulianStuart

velisarius said:


> I've always known about these coffee pots, because I'm a coffee nerd.


I've known about them for a long time (one of my first girlfriends at university was Italian) but I'd not heard the term "moka pot" before...


----------



## PaulQ

Juhasz said:


> I don't disagree that many people would call that a percolator, but they would be wrong in doing so.


No. _*Vox Populi, Vox Dei *_- it is a percolator. I have the exact model as shown.

I have never seen "moka" spelled that way (and there's a red wavy line under it as well!) I have only seen *mokka *(mostly German/Swiss chocolates and the like) or *mocha* (Caffè mocha - Wikipedia)


----------



## JulianStuart

PaulQ said:


> No. _*Vox Populi, Vox Dei *_- it is a percolator. I have the exact model as shown.
> 
> I have never seen "moka" spelled that way (and there's a red wavy line under it as well!) I have only seen *mokka *(mostly German/Swiss chocolates and the like) or *mocha* (Caffè mocha - Wikipedia)



Now it sounds like a simpler AE vs BE (excepting FE and IE in ewie's case) difference.

Here's an image from ca. 1923  in the image library of an Oakland Ca coffee company. They also sell Moka Pots but no more percolators


----------



## Andygc

JulianStuart said:


> Now it sounds like a simpler AE vs BE


No. It's definitely not a percolator as far as this BE vox is concerned. As already said, a percolator ruins coffee by recirculating it. These Italian espresso-making gizmos aren't percolators and don't ruin coffee. We got rid of our percolator years ago. I'm glad I now know I should call my gizmo a 'moka pot'. (Much easier than 'macchinetta del caffè' )


----------



## suzi br

Andygc said:


> No. It's definitely not a percolator as far as this BE vox is concerned. As already said, a percolator ruins coffee by recirculating it. These Italian espresso-making gizmos aren't percolators and don't ruin coffee. We got rid of our percolator years ago. I'm glad I now know I should call my gizmo a 'moka pot'. (Much easier than 'macchinetta del caffè' )



Well - just maybe there can be more than one sort of percolator.  The verb percolate is defined in our own dictionary in a way that meets the opertaing system of these moka pots.


----------



## london calling

velisarius said:


> I've always known about these coffee pots, because I'm a coffee nerd.


Same here, plus I've lived in Italy for the past 36 years and own a whole set of Moka pots in varying sizes.


----------



## JulianStuart

suzi br said:


> Well - just maybe there can be more than one sort of percolator.  The verb percolate is defined in our own dictionary in a way that meets the opertaing system of these moka pots.


As in # 13 above.


----------



## Andygc

Suzi, my small  objection to the Wordreference dictionary definitions is that they leave out essential elements of the verb and noun. From Oxford online:


> [no object, with adverbial of direction] (of a liquid or gas) filter *gradually* through a porous surface or substance.


OED 'percolator'


> A device for making coffee in which hot water percolates *downwards* through coffee grounds.


In a moka pot the hot water passes upwards and its movement is not gradual. But if you want to call it a percolator, I really don't mind - I just won't understand you.


----------



## suzi br

Well it's always in interestiing discussion  when one of us thinks something in a definition matches "our" view or when we  think it's "wrong". 

 I usually think that usage trumps dictionaries anyway and lots of people USE the word percolator for this sort of pot.


----------



## Andygc

Lots? I wouldn't know and have no way of knowing. Some? Yes, I can see that from this thread. I'm not saying that they are wrong. All I'm saying is that the verb percolate has, for me, a particular meaning, and that means that I do not call a moka pot a percolator because the water doesn't percolate through the coffee. It's forced through under pressure. I didn't know it was called a moka pot, and I have called it an espresso-maker if I've needed to call it anything. I'll carry on doing that because anybody I'm likely to talk to about making coffee probably also won't know what a moka pot is, but they will know exactly what I mean if I say percolator as opposed to espresso-maker.


----------



## velisarius

IKEA call their version an "espresso maker".

My mother used a percolator, and she used to call the noise "perking": _I can hear the coffee perking_. She used the same phrase for my espresso maker, since the sound is similar. I say "It's spluttering".


----------



## PaulQ

Andygc said:


> But if you want to call it a percolator, I really don't mind - I just won't understand you.


I'm sure you will after this thread.


			
				OED said:
			
		

> A device for making coffee in which hot water percolates *downwards* through coffee grounds.


It seems to me that the word “downwards” in the OED: “A device for making coffee in which hot water percolates downwards through coffee grounds.” is only there for completeness – to percolate has no “direction” to it.

A drip/filter coffee machine has the water percolating downwards too, but the points are (a) I don't think it is referred to as a "percolator" (b)we have different terms because we feel the need to distinguish but do not (in genral) feel the need to distinguish between machines that use surface pressure to push water in a direction (c) things “percolated” well before there were coffee makers and they percolated upwards, downwards and sideways. Obviously, things that percolated upwards required some force.

The next thing is that just because we do not have a word for something, does not mean that we should take up a strange word from another language for it. You and I have both looked for “*moka*” in the OED, and it is there only as an 18th century spelling variant, whereas *mocha* (a style of coffee and a colour) is there but has no mention “pot”. It is therefore strange to rely on the OED in one direction, and not in another.

Google Ngram gives interesting results for Moka, (Google Ngram Viewer ) but only as the name of a tribe, and a location, and in various references to foreign languages in which “moka” is a word unrelated to coffee. As a good generalisation, and in answer to the OP, I think SuziBr is correct - we can indeed safely say that the vast majority of native speakers do not use “moka pot”.

I think that “moka pot” is a word picked up from other languages mainly by ex-pats but fails to make the journey back.


----------



## Packard

Loob said:


> I wonder if you and veli both know "moka pot" because of where you live, lc? I think that the only time I've ever come across the term was in a brief discussion elsewhere in these forums - if someone asked me "Have you got a moka pot?" I'd look at them blankly.
> 
> I think I'd probably call it a "stove-top coffee maker"
> 
> UK appliance stores seem to use various terms: "espresso coffee-maker", "stove-top espresso maker"; "stovetop coffee percolator"....



That is my take on this too.  

I recall my mother making coffee in a percolator on Sunday mornings and it would fill the entire house with the aroma of coffee.  Those stove top versions are sealed and do not.


----------



## Copyright

I'd never heard _moka pot_ before this thread – probably because I drink only tea, not coffee – but I was amused by the coincidence of reading a _Vogue _article a few minutes ago about Arundhati Roy, that begins:

On the top floor of a small building on a quiet lane in central Delhi, the writer Arundhati Roy greets me at the door of her apartment, accompanied by two eagerly barking dogs, whose names, she tells me, translate as Mrs. Filthy Darling and Beloved of the Earth. “Filth and Dirt,” Roy says cheerfully as she welcomes me into her large, sunny kitchen and starts making coffee in *an Italian moka pot*—“It’ll be weak, South Indian–style, OK?” she says with a laugh.


----------



## Andygc

PaulQ said:


> I'm sure you will after this thread.


No, I won't, simply because an espresso-maker is not, to me, a percolator.


PaulQ said:


> The next thing is that just because we do not have a word for something, does not mean that we should take up a strange word from another language for it.


That's a very odd thing to say. That is a normal part of the development of English and we have done so for several hundred years: veranda, dhobi, umbrella, mezzanine, patio, corset, heroin ...


PaulQ said:


> I think SuziBr is correct - we can indeed safely say that the vast majority of native speakers do not use “moka pot”.


Suzi said no such thing. I don't think you should put words into others' mouths.


suzi br said:


> and lots of people USE the word percolator for this sort of pot.


I did not claim that any significant number of BE speakers say "moka pot" - I have no idea how many do, but since it is extremely unlikely that the majority of households have one it is probably no more than a small minority - but I have no good reason to believe that a majority of BE speakers call an espresso-maker a percolator.


----------



## MattiasNYC

I've never heard an American refer to the pictured device as a "moka pot". Reading about it on Wikipedia I'm inclined to agree that it's indeed a "moka pot" rather than a percolator. Still, the latter is the only name I've heard of it by Americans. Curious.....


----------



## Packard

I see this image on line when I Google espresso  coffee maker.  When I visit the sites they alternately say "Bialleta Stove Top espresso maker" or "Bialleta Moka stove top espresso maker".  None of them seem to call it a "percolator" and I would not either.

The engraved plate does say "moka" on it.  So I think you are fine to use that too.


----------



## PaulQ

suzi br said:


> I usually think that usage trumps dictionaries anyway and lots of people USE the word percolator for this sort of pot.





PaulQ said:


> I think SuziBr is correct - we can indeed safely say that the vast majority of native speakers do not use “moka pot”.





Andygc said:


> Suzi said no such thing. I don't think you should put words into others' mouths.


I didn't. I think (a) SuziBr is correct and (b) we can indeed safely say that the vast majority of native speakers do not use “moka pot”.


----------



## Packard

This from Wikipedia:

The *moka pot*, also known as a _*macchinetta del caffè*_[1] (literally "small coffee machine"), is a stove-top or electric coffee maker that produces coffee by passing boiling water pressurized by steam through ground coffee. It was patented for the first time in Italy by the inventor Luigi De Ponti for Alfonso Bialetti in 1933.[2] Bialetti Industrie continues to produce the same model under the name "Moka Express".

Moka pot - Wikipedia

I think you can safely call this a Moka pot, but I have reservations calling it a percolator.


----------



## Andygc

PaulQ said:


> I didn't. I think (a) SuziBr is correct and (b) we can indeed safely say that the vast majority of native speakers do not use “moka pot”.


Fine. In which case you should punctuate your post so that your meaning is clear. A dash does not mean "and".


----------



## london calling

Andygc said:


> Suzi, my small  objection to the Wordreference dictionary definitions is that they leave out essential elements of the verb and noun. From Oxford online:
> 
> OED 'percolator'
> 
> In a moka pot the hot water passes upwards and its movement is not gradual. But if you want to call it a percolator, I really don't mind - I just won't understand you.


I agree. Just for curiosity's sake, in Naples before the Moka pot was invented they used a different coffee pot : Wiki calls it a 'Neapolitan flip coffee pot' in English. I say 'used': I know people who still use it. Percolated coffee, for me, is a thing of the past.

Anyway, 'Moka pot' is the term UK coffee buffs would use and if they call it a 'percolator', well......they must be tea drinkers.


----------



## Packard

london calling said:


> I agree. Just for curiosity's sake, in Naples before the Moka pot was invented they used a different coffee pot : Wiki calls it a 'Neapolitan flip coffee pot' in English. I say 'used': I know people who still use it. Percolated coffee, for me, is a thing of the past.
> 
> Anyway, 'Moka pot' is the term UK coffee buffs would use and if they call it a 'percolator', well......they must be tea drinkers.



Well, let's let that thought percolate for a while.

For me, the only use for "percolate" is just as I've used it above.  The coffee percolator is obsolete.  I cannot recall when or where I last saw a real percolator in use.


----------



## Myridon

Packard said:


> The coffee percolator is obsolete.  I cannot recall when or where I last saw a real percolator in use.


They still make large percolators (12 cups up to 100 cups).
Amazon.com: Proctor Silex Commercial 45060  Coffee Urn 60 Cup Aluminum, One Hand Dispensing, Coffee Level Indicator, 16.93" Height, 11.73" Width, 12.56" Length, Stainless Steel: Industrial & Scientific


----------



## jmichaelm

Packard said:


> I recall my mother making coffee in a percolator on Sunday mornings and it would fill the entire house with the aroma of coffee.



This is what I remember of coffee as a child. It smelled great and tasted awful.

I have never before heard the name "moka pot" (or "mocha pot"). It's not commonly used in the US as far as I can tell.


----------



## Scott AM

I have little to add to this interesting discussion, apart from the fact that "percolator" is one half of one of my favorite rhyming pairs in pop music history:

"Richard got married to a figure skater,
And he bought her a dishwasher, and a coffee percolator."
("The Last Time I Saw Richard" - Joni Mitchell)


----------



## exgerman

The thing in the picture is definitely not a percolator. it's much smaller. it makes one or two cups of very strong coffee. We used to use these things to make individual cups of espresso before the fancy electric espresso makers became available.

i see that Amazon is selling a 6-cup version and calls it a 6 cup espresso coffee maker.


----------



## shadaypr

First of all, I must say I love this thread. You all have finally put to rest my questions of common use vs. proper terminology, minus the statistics of use, but I can get an idea from the natives' reports. I wanted to add two things:

1. Part of my concern with the term "percolator" for the moka pot is that a lot of things would apply to that term for that matter, even though they are different devices with different brewing processes. Basically all coffee making devices percolate coffee, as PaulQ seems to have confirmed, regardless of the terms used commonly for them in the UK or the US. So in terms of the proper term, I do feel at peace disregarding the use of "percolator" personally and in terms of the common name for it, it is good to know and I respect it as authentic vox populi.
2. Since this is an Italian device after all (thank you, london calling, for your input), from what I get from the Italian dictionary Grande Dizionario Hoepli online, "moka" is also a variety of coffee from the city of Mokha, Yemen, so as unusual as it might be for some, it is kind of cool that it connects to coffee's geographical origin. I found it confusing at first, however, considering that "mocha" is also used for the mocaccino, but we should be used to this branching of terminology by now.

P.S.: I am not totally at peace yet with the terminology for this device, at least beyond the English language. I grew up calling this thing a "greca" in Spanish, which seems to be a way of saying "Greek" and I do not know why we would call it "Greek" when it is from Italy, but that is a question for a different thread of a different language.

I hope you all enjoy your coffee!


----------



## Andygc

shadaypr said:


> Basically all coffee making devices percolate coffee


Sadly, not so. Coffee made in a billycan* and Turkish coffee** are made by boiling ground coffee in water.

* As in many an old western film from Hollywood.
** Made in a _cezve_


----------

