# Debate forum?



## vachecow

I think we need a forum where people can debate.  I view the cultural issues forum as a place to ask "cultural" questions, and get responses.  Mabye the need for a forum like this will die down, but based on the thread "Kerry's mistakes", I think we need a place for stuff like that.


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## walnut

You mean something like 'political issues'? Or are there other kinds of non-political arguments you think would be better discussed in a specific thread? Ciao!  Walnut


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## Tomas Robinson

vachecow121 said:
			
		

> I think we need a forum where people can debate.  I view the cultural issues forum as a place to ask "cultural" questions, and get responses.  Mabye the need for a forum like this will die down, but based on the thread "Kerry's mistakes", I think we need a place for stuff like that.



Hi vachecow,

It's a good idea but how do we keep it from devolving into just another flame war? (and a thread like "Kerry's mistakes" is certainly ripe for THAT possibility!) Worth a shot, though...  

Regards,
Tom


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## calzetin

I'd rather not have it. It was all because of the elections but... a political forum? hmmm I dont know but doesnt look that attractive to me. Besides, making too many forums and subforums make people get lost. You could make an "off-topic forum"... but I think that, at the moment it's fine as it is. In two week's time everyone will forget about the elections and no one would be very interested on the politic forum wouldnt 

al least that's what I think


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## mkellogg

Someday maybe a politics forum might be good for those who are interested (and ignored by the rest of the people), but I would want it to be a "political understanding" forum, not a debate forum.  The difference being that instead of debating - which could turn ugly quite easily, people would concentrate on _understanding_ what the "other side" could possibly be thinking.  For this to work, we would need an extremely forceful moderator.

I haven't seen all the threads in the cultural forum, but am quite pleased that the tone there has been fairly civil.  I hope it continues...


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## Focalist

Sorry, but the choices presented permit me only to "spoil my ballot".

"Great idea" -- 
Hmm. There is no way that I am opposed to political debate, but I foresee a severe case of tail-wagging-dog-syndrome if we set up a specific forum.

"Our forums are fine; you don't know what you're talking about" -- 
Double bind here: nothing is perfect; I have absolutely no evidence that the proposer doesn't know what (s)he is talking about. 

"I don't care" -- But I do!

It is not for nothing that in the real world of proposing resolutions for adoption, the question is always framed in such a way that the answer has to be either "yes" or "no".

F


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## cuchuflete

Focalist said:
			
		

> Sorry, but the choices presented permit me only to "spoil my ballot".
> 
> "Great idea" --
> Hmm. There is no way that I am opposed to political debate, but I foresee a severe case of tail-wagging-dog-syndrome if we set up a specific forum.
> 
> "Our forums are fine; you don't know what you're talking about" --
> Double bind here: nothing is perfect; I have absolutely no evidence that the proposer doesn't know what (s)he is talking about.
> 
> "I don't care" -- But I do!
> 
> It is not for nothing that in the real world of proposing resolutions for adoption, the question is always framed in such a way that the answer has to be either "yes" or "no".
> 
> F



Mr. F-, I have found the current structure adequate for people to get way off topic, and into some fascinating conversations.  My only issue is with those who are too quick to yell "politically incorrect", so I've taken to reminding them that the forum is where one should not go to find easy agreement, for that would imply death by boredom.  

I too care, and at the moment prefer our gentle anarchy to a cubby hole for contentious issues.  This is contrary to something I wrote a week or two back.  I suppose thought will do that!

You and I haven't had a good debate lately.  Do you have a topic up your sleeve?  How about the buggins turn theory of selecting American Presidents?

ciao,
Cuchu


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## Focalist

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> You and I haven't had a good debate lately.


Pressure of work, Your Moderation, pressure of work. I'm playing hooky tonight, though I shouldn't (need to be at my desk again by 7.30 tomorrow morning). Be warned, however, that my current deadline is 23.59 West European Time on Sunday. I'm sure I shall be able to find plenty of things to disagree with you about next week....

F


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## vachecow

Focalist said:
			
		

> Sorry, but the choices presented permit me only to "spoil my ballot".
> 
> "Great idea" --
> Hmm. There is no way that I am opposed to political debate, but I foresee a severe case of tail-wagging-dog-syndrome if we set up a specific forum.
> 
> "Our forums are fine; you don't know what you're talking about" --
> Double bind here: nothing is perfect; I have absolutely no evidence that the proposer doesn't know what (s)he is talking about.
> 
> "I don't care" -- But I do!
> 
> It is not for nothing that in the real world of proposing resolutions for adoption, the question is always framed in such a way that the answer has to be either "yes" or "no".
> 
> F


Good point.  Sorry about that, I'll see what I can do.  I always appreciate help.


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## vachecow

mkellogg said:
			
		

> but I would want it to be a "political understanding" forum, not a debate forum
> 
> I haven't seen all the threads in the cultural forum, but am quite pleased that the tone there has been fairly civil.  I hope it continues...


I think this is the problem....Isn't this what we allready have??  Or perhaps I am mistaken.....  DOES ANYBODY KNOW HOW TO EDIT YOUR POLLS?
This is the second time that I have had a poll that I/somebody else wanted to change and I couldn't do it.


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## mkellogg

I think you aren't allowed to edit your polls after people have voted.  Probably so you don't change what people voted for!  You can probably add a second poll, though.


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## badger

I think that politics, religion and other divisive subjects should not be discussed in these forums. 

Even though i made a political posting in one of the cultural threads, I regretted doing so afterwards.  

There are plenty of other forums elswhere for political and other contentious debates. 

I would prefer to see these forums confined to language issues, and if culture needs to be included then it should be of a strictly *cultural* nature, and the above issues excluded or regulated. 

The contributers here at the present time are in my opinion, *excellent*, and if issues are introduced that divides these people then in my opinion this web site will be diminished. 

best regards to all my co-foreros
Badger


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## cuchuflete

Focalist said:
			
		

> Pressure of work, Your Moderation, pressure of work. I'm playing hooky tonight, though I shouldn't (need to be at my desk again by 7.30 tomorrow morning). Be warned, however, that my current deadline is 23.59 West European Time on Sunday. I'm sure I shall be able to find plenty of things to disagree with you about next week....
> 
> F



Always looking forward to civil bloodshed!  Long live military justice and other oxymorons.

regards,
C


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## cuchuflete

badger said:
			
		

> I think that politics, religion and other divisive subjects should not be discussed in these forums.
> 
> Even though i made a political posting in one of the cultural threads, I regretted doing so afterwards.
> 
> There are plenty of other forums elswhere for political and other contentious debates.
> 
> I would prefer to see these forums confined to language issues, and if culture needs to be included then it should be of a strictly *cultural* nature, and the above issues excluded or regulated.
> 
> The contributers here at the present time are in my opinion, *excellent*, and if issues are introduced that divides these people then in my opinion this web site will be diminished.
> 
> best regards to all my co-foreos
> Badger



Hello Mr Badger/Panda,

I hope you are in a mood for a friendly disagreement!  I've yet to stumble across a culture that was free of either politics--a most pernicious trade--or religion, about which I shall bite my tongue to avoid inciting anyone.  These are basic aspects of every national culture.  We could try to exclude them from the conversations, but that would accomplish only one thing: the moderators would be turned into truncheon wielding constables, and everyone would hate them.  That would diminish the forums as well.

I've found another way, which at least so far has worked.  When the conversations get heated, I or another forero writes a note asking for civility.

It hasn't failed yet.  Let's keep our fingers crossed.

best regards,
Cuchu


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## badger

cuchufléte

...truncheon wielding constables..

A nice turn of phrase, i like it. 

It's 3:30 am here and I'm going to bed now, 
but I look forward to engaging a friendly 
flower wielding constable sometime tomorrow 
and continuing this subject.  

Slainte y buenos noches
amigo mio.
B


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## Graziella

Hey Cuchu,
Please, first explain to me what "truncheon wielding constables" means.
Secondly, Have you heard this joke?  "I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected" 
And the main point is that I can not catch up with your level of English  .-
I wish I could.


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## cuchuflete

Graziella said:
			
		

> Hey Cuchu,
> Please, first explain to me what "truncheon wielding constables" means.
> Secondly, Have you heard this joke?  "I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected"
> And the main point is that I can not catch up with your level of English  .-
> I wish I could.



Hola Graziella,

Thanks for the joke.  I'll give it a prominent place in my collection, along with the comment by Mark Twain that Americans send their worst mistakes to Congress.

Truncheon wielding constables= club carrying cops, policemen with sticks,
nightstick bearing officials of law and order?

Truncheon=nightstick, club, short and heavy wood article used by police to hit suspects or evildoers.
wielding= carrying, as a weapon
constable=sheriff, policeman

abrazos muy pacíficos,
Cuchu


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## cuchuflete

badger said:
			
		

> cuchufléte
> 
> ...truncheon wielding constables..
> 
> A nice turn of phrase, i like it.
> 
> It's 3:30 am here and I'm going to bed now,
> but I look forward to engaging a friendly
> flower wielding constable sometime tomorrow
> and continuing this subject.
> 
> Slainte y buenos noches
> amigo mio.
> B



Estimado Don Badger,

Speaking of turns of phrase, for me the Irish are the best of all English speakers at this.  I'm just a novice.

What do you think of a thread in Culture on insults?  It might be a fun way for us to vent our spleen, collective and individual, at thin air, as opposed to getting heated about politics?

I'll get something started, and look for you there!

Amistosamente,
Cuchu


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## Becky85

Graziella said:
			
		

> Hey Cuchu,
> Please, first explain to me what "truncheon wielding constables" means.
> Secondly, Have you heard this joke?  "I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected"
> And the main point is that I can not catch up with your level of English  .-
> I wish I could.



And the main point is that I *cannot/can't* *keep* up with your level of English


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## Graziella

Thank you!!!
I was taught that phrasal "to catch up with" meaning to improve so much that you reach the same standard as other people have. But maybe I was wrong!!!
I'm sorry.
I only know that i know nothing


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## Silvia

In fact 'keep up' and 'catch up' are two different things. Are you sure that "to catch up with" cannot be used there?


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## Tormenta

Graziella said:
			
		

> Thank you!!!
> I was taught that phrasal "to catch up with" meaning to improve so much that you reach the same standard as other people have. But maybe I was wrong!!!
> I'm sorry.
> *I only know that i know nothing*



Well, Graziella, that's more than most people know  

Tormenta


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## Graziella

Silvia, Are you asking me (Graziella)?
Tormenta, thank you for cheer me up!
Best wishes! and all the sunshine.


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## Tormenta

Hello everyone

About two months ago I decided  to participate in this forum to improve my English (now I will be able to improve my German as well).
I have enjoyed my time in here tremendously and sometimes I find it hard to stay away .

I am not, particularly, interested in having a "debate forum" but I do not oppose to the creation of it, actually, I might even participate if such forum is created.

However, there are a few things I don't understand , and perhaps those of you who are  more experienced than I can enlighten me  

Who will decide which topics belong in the "debate forum"  and which ones in the "cultural" forum?

Personally, I am NOT (yes with capital letters) interested in discussing politics and/or religion; however, I do not believe that these two topics can be left out.
Entire cultures are based on religion/beliefs. In many cultures politics is people's daily bread. Why should we censor these topics? 


The fact that some people can't be civil and discuss such topics with respect and in a civilized manner is not enough to censor these topics. Usually, those who are unable to respect others during a political argument are also unable to respect others during any kind of argument.   

I used to participate in a "football/soccer  forum" , and I have seen people turning into "irrational animals" (specially after their team lost); it is not the topic, it is people who are irrational.

It is not about censoring topics, it is about the way we treat each other when debating such topics.  I have learnt a lot, I have been enriched by people who strongly disagree with me, and I think this is what a debate forum should be about.

If we do get a "debate forum", please, let's make sure our debates stay in the debate forum and do not "spoil" the rest of our forums,which are a blast 

Maybe, I misunderstood the entire issue, and the idea is to have a "grammar debate" forum; if this is the case, I apologize.

Cheers!

Tormenta


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## badger

I voted against, but after reading the opinions of cuchufléte and Tormenta I now want to change my vote to "I don't care".

This would make me a neutral I believe.

Reason being that if some members want this, then I would prefer not be an obstacle.

Anyway isn't the normal procedure to have the debate first and then the vote?

Aren't we putting the cart before the horse here? b


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## Silvia

DEBATE:

*1. * a contention by words or arguments
Contentions can be anywhere, right around the corner, people can debate about a word, a phrase, an expression, a custom, an attitude, a country, etc. No specific forum is required.

*2. * a regulated discussion of a proposition between two matched sides 
That would mean
A = a moderator would be required
B = people have to take sides, something is either black or white
I'm not sure it's advisable.

P.S.: No Graziella, I was not asking you, I was asking Becky, or anyone else who feels like replying.


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## quehuong

> Mabye the need for a forum like this will die down, but based on the thread "Kerry's mistakes", I think we need a place for stuff like that.



A political debate forum?  

I wouldn't want this website to turn into a boxing ring because of a political debate forum.  A small spot of honey could attract all kinds of bees, flies, etc.

Mr. Kellogg,

Everything depends on your philosophy/mission and target audience.


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## Artrella

I don't like the idea of having a "political/ debate forum"  This forum is about languages, and I think there is already some kind of debate here.  I have a good time like this.  Art


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## cuchuflete

The Jefe, Mike, and a couple of moderators had a discussion, perhaps even a 'debate' about this recently.  The collective thinking at this point is that if we 'moderate' the Culture forum, we don't need a 'Debate' forum.  The role of the Moderators in Culture will be limited to reminding people to be civil and respectful in the expression of their opinions.

If any member acts intentionally insulting or disrespectful towards other members, they will be asked to behave otherwise.  This is not censorship.  All will be free to continue to express their ideas, and present facts, to support their respective viewpoints.

Mike has created an environment of mutual support and teaching here.  Every one of us needs to keep that in mind, and help this community continue to grow along peaceful lines.   

Speaking only for myself, disagreement need not lead to discord. Truth is more valuable than harmony, yet they can coexist, if we make the effort. 

Abrazos,
Cuchu


PD- for Silvia, Graziella, _et alia_,  Keep up--stay with, remain alongside, continue
Catch up- reach someone or something that is ahead; return to a place or level from which one has fallen behind.


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## Silvia

Then Graziella and I were right!


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## Graziella

Dear Silvia,
You are always right!
I'm in a hectic day here at my workplace, I'm sorry and hope to write to you soon, maybe during weekend.


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## Silvia

I will be pleased!


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## cuchuflete

silviap said:
			
		

> Then Graziella and I were right!



Silvia, I refuse to engage in a discussion about your political leanings, no matter how caught up in the argument we may be.  It's a matter of keeping up appearances.

saludos,
Cuciu


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## mkellogg

Let me just say officially, that I won't be opening a debate forum here any time soon. Sorry.

One of the missions of these forums is to bring us all a little closer together. I don't see how a debate forum, or political debate in general, will accomplish that. If I could figure out how to create a forum dedicated to _understanding_ each other's politics and positions, then I would do it, but I don't see that as working too easily. So, for now, the answer is no.

I do apreciate the suggestions though!

Mike


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## vachecow

Graziella said:
			
		

> Secondly, Have you heard this joke?  "I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected"


No, but it is pretty funny


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## vachecow

mkellogg said:
			
		

> Let me just say officially, that I won't be opening a debate forum here any time soon. Sorry.
> 
> One of the missions of these forums is to bring us all a little closer together. I don't see how a debate forum, or political debate in general, will accomplish that. If I could figure out how to create a forum dedicated to _understanding_ each other's politics and positions, then I would do it, but I don't see that as working too easily. So, for now, the answer is no.
> 
> I do apreciate the suggestions though!
> 
> Mike


Hey thanks mike, I am pretty new here, and I was just curious.  And I agree; these forums are great just how they are


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## mkellogg

Thanks, vachecow.  They are pretty good, but we do need to keep evolving the forums.  I feel that we have only just "touched the surface" of the potential of these forums.  I welcome any ideas for improvement and expansion of new forums.  I'll probably reject a lot of them, and even reject many ideas at first, only to agree to them later.


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## Silvia

So diplomatic you are!


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## badger

Graziella said:
			
		

> Hey Cuchu,
> Please, first explain to me what "truncheon wielding constables" means.
> Secondly, Have you heard this joke?  "I don't approve of political jokes. I've seen too many of them get elected"
> And the main point is that I can not catch up with your level of English  .-
> I wish I could.



Hi Graziella.
I came accross this and thought you might be interested, it's from an old london archive. b   



> CONSTABLES AND THE NIGHT WATCH
> Constables were required to apprehend anyone accused of a felony, and bring them before a justice of the peace. They also had a general responsibility to keep the peace, but there was no expectation that they would investigate and prosecute crimes. Night watchmen patrolled the streets between 9 or 10 pm until sunrise, and were expected to examine all suspicious characters. In the City of London, daytime patrols were conducted by the City Marshall and the beadles. Like the night watch, their primary responsibilities were to apprehend minor offenders and to act as a deterrent against more serious offences. Over the course of this period, the arrangements by which men served as constables and watchmen changed significantly, in ways which altered the way felons were detected and apprehended........


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## Graziella

Thank you Badger!
How was your weekend?


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