# æ, œ (nom des ligatures)



## kimiko

Hey Everyone,
Does the vowel combination 'œ' as in 'sœur' have a name?

Thanks,
Kimiko

*Moderator notes:*
Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.
If you're interested in the pronunciation of _œ_, have a look here.
If you want to know how to type such characters, you will find this sticky useful.


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## OlivierG

Yes, it called "e dans l'o".


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## timpeac

Ahhh

Maintenant je sais pourquoi dans la chanson Laetitia Gainsboug dit "l a e dans l'a t i t i a"! Je savais bien qu'il s'agissait du nom Laetitia mais exactement pourquoi il y avait "dans" dans cette phrase, ça m'avait toujours mélangé! Merci


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## kimiko

Merci Olivier!!

Kimiko


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## tchev

"o e entrelacés" is a more formal way to name this.
The process of joining the 2 letters in one is called ligature (and sometimes erroneously called diphtongue).
œ (oe) æ (ae) & (et) @ (ad) are examples of ligatures.


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## Tabac

tchev said:
			
		

> "o e entrelacés" is a more formal way to name this.
> The process of joining the 2 letters in one is called ligature (and sometimes erroneously called diphtongue).
> œ (oe) æ (ae) & (et) @ (ad) are examples of ligatures.


 
Correct!   It is not a diphthong.  In the study of linguistics, the general term for the process is "diagraph".  I'm glad the question was asked:  I'd never heard it called anything in French.


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## tchev

Tabac said:
			
		

> Correct!   It is not a diphthong.  In the study of linguistics, the general term for the process is "diagraph".  I'm glad the question was asked:  I'd never heard it called anything in French.


Hum... I suppose you mean "digraph" (without a), and although it has similarities, I'm not sure it is more general.

A digraph ("digramme" in French) is 2 separate letters sounded as one, like "ch" in French or "th" in english.
A ligature is 2 letters drawn as one single symbol (whatever se pronounciation).
A diphtong is one letter sounded as 2 sounds, like "i" in english (ah-ee).
There is no diphtong in French (hence probably the erroneous use of the word... just a guess).
A diagraph is a reproduction tool.


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## Tabac

tchev said:
			
		

> Hum... I suppose you mean "digraph" (without a), and although it has similarities, I'm not sure it is more general. You caught my typo.
> 
> A digraph ("digramme" in French) is 2 separate letters sounded as one, like "ch" in French or "th" in english. My American heritage assigns "digraph" both to two letters sounding as one and to two letters scrunched together, written as one.


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## Cath.S.

Tabac said:
			
		

> tchev said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hum... I suppose you mean "digraph" (without a), and although it has similarities, I'm not sure it is more general. You caught my typo.
> 
> A digraph ("digramme" in French) is 2 separate letters sounded as one, like "ch" in French or "th" in english. My American heritage assigns "digraph" both to two letters sounding as one and to two letters scrunched together, written as one.
Click to expand...

 
I checked both the Petit Robert and atilf, and according to those dictionaries, in French digramme only means two letters sounding as one. 

None of them makes any mention of e dans l'o or e dans l'a being digrammes.

œ æ are called ligatures, as Tchev said. 
*Ligatures comme graphèmes*

*Œ*
*Le français (qui semble être la seule langue à le faire) connaît une telle ligature, la lettre Œ / œ, dite « e dans l'o ». Il n'est pas possible de la considérer comme la réunion esthétique des deux lettres oe car son utilisation dépend entièrement de l'étymologie du mot et ne peut être considérée ni optionnelle ni systématique.*
Source:
http://www.encyclopedie-enligne.com...ml?PHPSESSID=b448bbb94c7f5f4e2e3c7c64db569189


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## Randisi.

Hi, everyone!

Does this symbol 'œ' have a name? 
[…]


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## pieanne

If we refer to Serge Gainsbourg, it could be "e dans l'o", but he may have made it up!


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## Floor

That's true, it's called "e dans l'o", it comes from Latin.
 […]


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## Aoyama

E dans l'o is very correct, as is e dans l'a also found in Gainsbourg 's song Laetitae (sorry, can't type it on this machine). It is found in latin words like curriculum-vitae etc. It is also called a _ligature_ in printing parlance.


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## hoshiko

By the way, I always wondered if "e dans l'o" is a play on words on "e dans l'eau".
Any idea?


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## pieanne

I don't think so, Hoshiko


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## Aoyama

> By the way, I always wondered if "e dans l'o" is a play on words on "e dans l'eau".


Well, it _is_ and it is not ... The original "naming" _e dans l'o_ obviously implies _only_ what it means. But it is true that some teachers of French (I being one) sometimes use this pun as a humourous way to remember things. […]


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## emma42

Ces "e dans l'o" etc s'appellent "diphthongs", mais "diphthong" n'est pas tout à fait bien, à mon avis, parce que cela s'applique également aux deux voyelles ensemble qu'on prononce comme une seule syllabe.


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## mgarizona

I see that in English this character is called an Œthel:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%92

Who knew?

And in French an _eðel ... _as well as '_e dans l'o'_ or '_o e liés'_ ... according to this:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Œ


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## PMCB

Does anyone know the specific term for the -oe combination that appears in words like *coeur*, *soeur*, and *oeuvre*?


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## melu85

"e dans l'o"?


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## Already-Seen

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Œ


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## Moonlit-Sunset

"une ligature" (c'est le terme que j'ai vu sur le net)

Edit : ah ben j'ai été devancée  (look at the wiki's link, it's more complete ! )


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## Trinite

http://www.druide.com/points_de_langue_15.html
http://www.francegenweb.org/~standard/index.php?page=lieu_caractere


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## Already-Seen

> "e dans l'o"?


 
That's what teachers called it at school.


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## Already-Seen

> "une ligature"


 
It's a type of ligature but the word ligature doesn't only apply to "l'e dans l'o".


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## Moonlit-Sunset

> It's a type of ligature but the word ligature doesn't only apply to "l'e dans l'o".


C'est ce que j'ai compris par la suite...


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## johndot

Also called a _diphtongue _?


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## Gutenberg

a grapheme, a ligature
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%92
o e liés
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Œ


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## broglet

From the typographical point of view, two lettters joined together are called a 'ligature' both in English and French - from the Latin ligare 'to bind'. A ligature in common use today in many languages (although in most typefaces you can hardly recognise it) is the ampersand '&' which was originally the Latin word 'et' 

From the phonetic point of view, two vowel sounds joined together are called a 'diphthong' (from the Greek for 'two sounds')

Since there are no diphthongs in modern French, the 'œ' of sœur is properly called a ligature (or 'o e liés' etc) rather than a diphthong.


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## Sencha

Oui, quand j'étais petite, à l'école, on disait "o e liés".


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## JeanDeSponde

When it comes to spelling those words, you would say, e.g. for _cœur : "C", "O", "E dans l'O", "U", "R"
Laetitia   _would be "L", "A", "E dans l'A", etc.


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## Áskera

Hi!

So, in spelling it seems that we have to say the ”o” at the beginning too: S-O E dans l’O-U-R.

But I’m confused because my professor told us ”o e dans l’o” is its proper name, and period. And you all have said here its name is ”e dans l’o”, and in Wikipedia it appears like that. 

Éclairez-moi, s’il vous plaît.


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## ForeverHis

It's ”e dans l’o”. Your prof is mistaken.


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## Blougouz

Œ:
E dans l'O, (you say the second letter first in that case!)

But it is also fine to say:
The S-the O, and then the E in the O, then U and R. I find it quite correct, yes! Your teacher is right (too) in the sens that he explains the draw of it when you are writing it. But he is wrong when he adds period: because there are many ways! His is not so often said like this though, because the œ is considered as *one* single letter, one caracter, and not two. And if you detail it by "O, E in the O" it sounds like it is two letters: one letter and you add the other one in it.

Or of course:
O-E liés, O-E entrelacés,

All of those spelling are correct.


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