# Allah belanı versin



## FlyingBird

İ know what this sentence mean but still i would like to know what are the suffixes and why?

Allah=God

Bela=Trouble

Vermek=to give

Know what i don't understand suffix 'nı' in bela (bela*nı*) and second thing i don't understand suffix 'sin' in ver (ver*sin*)?

Şimdiden teşekkür ederim


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## peptidoglycan

Allah belanı versin = (May) Allah damn you


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## FlyingBird

peptidoglycan said:


> Allah belanı versin = (May) Allah damn you


no i said i already know what it mean but i need explanation of suffixes.


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## Gemmenita

"-n" is "iyelik eki" (possessif) and "ı" is suffix for the object. (we say "bir şey*i* vermek) = May God give* your* bela! (a "bela" specially made for you!)

"sin" in"ver*sin"* is "emir kipi" (one of the suffixes of "emir kipi" )

http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/emir_kipi


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## FlyingBird

Chaton.marchande said:


> "sin" in"ver*sin"* is "emir kipi" (one of the suffixes of "emir kipi" )
> 
> http://tr.wiktionary.org/wiki/emir_kipi


so what 'ver*sin*' mean?
Didn't found any answer from link you gave me


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## FlyingBird

Chaton.marchande said:


> "-n" is "iyelik eki" (possessif) and "ı" is suffix for object = May God give* your* bela! (a "bela" specially made for you!) : since we say "bir şey*i* vermek"


İ know meaning of suffixes for 'bela' but the thing i don't understand is why to put 'bela*N*ı' which mean '*YOUR *trouble' and why not just '*bela*yı'?

Another example 'Allah hepinizin belasını versin' instead of 'Allah hepinize belayı versin'?

please literal explanation...thanks in advance


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## Esoppe

FlyingBird said:


> İ know meaning of suffixes for 'bela' but the thing i don't understand is why to put 'bela*N*ı' which mean '*YOUR *trouble' and why not just '*bela*yı'?
> 
> Another example 'Allah hepinizin belasını versin' instead of 'Allah hepinize belayı versin'?



Why belanı instead of belayı? Well, the saying has developed that way. There is no grammatical explanation. Apparently, when the phrase first came into usage, people thought a person already _had a trouble designed for him_ (hence bela*n*ı, instead of bela or belayı) if they are using this expression for them.

----

As for Allah hepinizin belasını versin, same explanation, the targeted people apparently deserve their "bela". 
One thing though, there is a second form of this sentence: "Allah hepinize belanızı versin" (adding this, since you thought "hepinize" would work too; it does).

Hepinizin = all of your
belası = his/her trouble (Why his/her? "Hepinizin belası" is a genitive construction/isim tamlaması, and suffixes of the two words in a genitive construction have to match. And hepiniz is grammatically, a third person singular pronoun. It means "all of you", but as a whole, it acts as third-person singular instead of second person plural. So since hepiniz acts like a "he/she", bela takes the -sı suffix and becomes "his/her trouble" )

Hepinize = to all of you 
belanız= your trouble (in this case, belanız/your trouble can be used, because there is no genitive construction)

There are some examples of Turkish genitive constructions here: http://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/İsim_tamlaması#Belirtili_isim_tamlamas.C4.B1


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## ancalimon

FlyingBird said:


> so what 'ver*sin*' mean?
> Didn't found any answer from link you gave me



"versin" would roughly mean a combination of "may it give", "it shall give" ~ "it will give"


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## Gemmenita

FlyingBird said:


> so what 'ver*sin*' mean?
> Didn't found any answer from link you gave me



Since your question in post #1 was not about its meaning but you just didn't understand what it is, I introduced the link.
Anyway, these suffixes for "emir kipi" and other suffixes for "istek kipi" are used for " an order" or "a wish" or "not a rough order but a rough wish" (in this case)

And finally "versin" means: *May* God *give *your bela!


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## FlyingBird

Chaton.marchande said:


> Since your question in post #1 was not about its meaning but you just didn't understand what it is, I introduced the link.
> Anyway, these suffixes for "emir kipi" and other suffixes for "istek kipi" are used for " an order" or "a wish" or "not a rough order but a rough wish" (in this case)
> 
> And finally "versin" means: *May* God *give *your bela!


oh know i understand...it is something like 'ol*sun*'?

do you know any site where i can read more about those suffixes?


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## Esoppe

FlyingBird said:


> do you know any site where i can read more about those suffixes?



Imperatives (emir kipi): http://www.turkishclass.com/turkish_lesson_72 (this page also talks about the "wish clause", which is the "istek kipi" Chaton mentioned)

This site seems to have other decent pages as well.


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## Gemmenita

> FlyingBird:
> oh know i understand...it is something like 'ol*sun*'?
> 
> do you know any site where i can read more about those suffixes?



Yes and as a matter of fact, "olsun" is like the others  (means can be "emir kipi" too)

When choosing rooms for children, the elder says:

Benimki büyük olsun!

But don't forget that we have another "Olsun" as one word (adverb) meaning: Never mind, no problem, OK, tamam, sorun değil.

and a link for you:

http://www.turkcede.org/turkceyi-ye...abancilara-dilbilgisi-ogretimi-emir-kipi.html


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## FlyingBird

Okay let me ask one more question about it

*Allah belasını versin. (may God give him trouble which he deserved)*


Know i don't understand why 'Allah belasını versin' is correct as it not pointing the person to which God should send deserved trouble.İt only say 'belası' which mean his trouble but it not say where God should sent it.

shouldn't it be 'Allah *ona* belasını versin' 

ona=to him


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## Esoppe

FlyingBird said:


> Okay let me ask one more question about it
> 
> *Allah belasını versin. (may God give him trouble which he deserved)*
> 
> 
> Know i don't understand why 'Allah belasını versin' is correct as it not pointing the person to which God should send deserved trouble.İt only say 'belası' which mean his trouble but it not say where God should sent it.
> 
> shouldn't it be 'Allah *ona* belasını versin'
> 
> ona=to him



Both "Allah belasını versin" and "Allah ona belasını versin" are correct. And actually, you can understand the person talked about is a 3rd person singular in both versions. The 3rd person singular possessive suffix "*-sı*" in "belasını" points that out (I mean, it's not like God is going to send _his _trouble to someone else). There is no need for an extra "ona"; but for added emphasis, you can use it.

It's like "May God give his trouble" vs. "May God give him his trouble" (although the 1st version sounds clunky in English, it is the commonly used one in Turkish)


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## FlyingBird

'Allah hepinizin belasını versin' (May God give them their trouble)

Also may i ask why it is 'belası' instead of 'belaları'...because here we are talking about their (hepinizin) belaları and not only of one guy.

İs it possible to say 'Allah belalarını versin' if we remove 'hepinizin' as it is not optional? 

cevabı bekliyorum


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## Reverence

"Hepinizin belası" is a possessive noun clause, not a possessive pronoun clause. You can say "bizim belamız", but you cannot say "hepimizin belamız"; it should be "hepimizin belası".


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## FlyingBird

Reverence said:


> "Hepinizin belası" is a possessive noun clause, not a possessive pronoun clause. You can say "bizim belamız", but you cannot say "hepimizin belamız"; it should be "hepimizin belası".


ok...what about 'Allah onların belalarını versin' would it be correct?


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## Reverence

"Allah onların belaları*nı* versin" would be correct. "Onların" here is redundant, though. "Allah belalarını versin" would sound more natural.


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## rükneddin

FlyingBird said:


> İ know what this sentence mean but still i would like to know what are the suffixes and why?
> 
> Allah=God
> 
> Bela=Trouble
> 
> Vermek=to give
> 
> Know what i don't understand suffix 'nı' in bela (bela*nı*) and second thing i don't understand suffix 'sin' in ver (ver*sin*)?
> 
> Şimdiden teşekkür ederim



you should check imperative tense in Turkish...
the diffrences between english and turkish  we can command 3. person ... for instence your father says you, buy some bread. - ''biraz ekmek al''

if your father said that sentnece to your mother it converts-- biraz ekmek al - sın -.

in that example, Allah belanı versin is an imperative sentence but it's a word pattern so , of course! we don't command to the God. 

and another information.
God = Tanrı or İlah

Allah is the custom name of our God... and Allah has also another 98 names '' - Rahman, Rahim ..... 
you could hear that names when you are talking with an old person.


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