# se décider à / décider de



## MelB

*Moderator note: *multiple threads merged to create this one

I'm trying to choose between:

décider de + infinitive

or 

se décider à + infinitive

It seems like this is a totally optional thing, that both relate to making a decision, and it doesn't matter which one I choose, except that there is a change in whether "de" or "à"  precedes the infinitive.  

Am I right there?

My proposed sentence is:  I decide to write a letter. 

Are both of these constructions correct:

Je décide d'écrire une lettre

and 

Je décide à écrire une lettre. 

If they're both correct, why have the reflexive verb at all?    
If not, how do they differ in use?


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## river

I think only "Je decide d'ecrire" is correct but it's  "Se decider à."   Je ne peux pas me decider à lui mentir.


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## Gil

Pour les prépositions:
Je décide d'écrire.
Je me décide à écrire.

Pour les différences de sens.
décider = prendre une décision
_ J'ai décidé d'aller à Paris._
se décider = faire un choix.
_J'hésitais entre Paris, Rome et Lisbonne.  Je me suis décidé et je suis allé à ...Madrid._


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## MelB

I couldn't tell from the dictionary, but it's very clear now.  And it's Je décide d'écrire."

I mean any time you are torn between doing something and not, it's a choice.  But I think that's not what you mean by a choice.  What you mean there is where the emphasis is on the choosing.  Such as, "Je ne peux pas me decider à lui mentir." Or the one, Gil, you gave where the choice was Paris, Rome or Lisbon. 

If you simply say, it was a rainy day, so I decided to go to the movies.  That would be clearly, J'ai décidé d'aller au cinéma.

Merci!


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## MelB

How about if you're thinking about doing something, and then decide not to.

J'ai considéré un reglèment qui exigerait que tout le monde doivent aller au travail samedi, mais j'ai décidé que non.

Or would it be, "mais je m'ai décidé que non"?    

Here the issue is only whether to do something or not, but there is still an emphasis on the choice.


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## Gil

Such as, "Je ne peux pas me decider à lui mentir.
Good example.
I checked in the TLFi and found something:


> 15.  Alors où veux-tu en venir finalement? que je lui faisais. Quand on le mettait en demeure, comme ça, de se décider, de se prononcer, de se déclarer pour de bon, il se dégonflait.
> CÉLINE, Voyage au bout de la nuit, 1932, p. 482.



"se décider" sous-entend qu'il  faut y penser un certain temps,  peser le pour et le contre, que l'on hésite, et que finalement on prend une décision, alors que "décider" peut être instantané, facile ou complètement irréfléchi, mais pas nécessairement.


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## Starcreator

To make up one's mind is a good translation.


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## MelB

Merci, 

C'est clair, pour ma phrase. 

J'ai considéré un reglèment qui exigerait que tout le monde doivent aller au travail samedi, mais je m'ai décidé que non.

Maintenant, après cette aide excellent, mon problème est résolu.  Je décide de regarder le télé.


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## MelB

I'm still a bit confused on this notwithstanding my prior post, and am not sure that TLFi treatise example is that clear to me.  I wonder if some people from France might care to comment.  

My Glanville Price Treatise (4th edition), A Comprehensive French Grammar, is a bit confusing to me. It says, "décider de (quelque chose) is to be used when one must 'decide about (something)', e.g., "Le gouvernement a décidé de l'avenir du projet." Or "Le comité en décidera." It also says "décider" takes "de" before a follow-up infinitive. 

The treatise says "se décider à" plus the infinitive is to be used 'to decide to (do something)' example: "Elle se decidéé à partir."

Well, my problem (in understanding this) is that to decide about something ("décider de) and to decide to do something (se décider à) are pretty close. [Really, sometimes deciding to do something is, very much, deciding about something].

If I say, I thought about going to Annapolis  today, but decided "no," couldn't I use either "de décider à" or "décider de" (becaue it involves deciding about something, and deciding to do something.  In many cases, can't one use either of these for the same type of sentence? 

Gil suggested that if one is making a choice between different options, "décider à" is appropriate.  Example.  I considered buying my brother a book, a wallet, and a CD, and decided to buy him the book.  He also emphasized the amount of thought that went into the decision.  It seems, from what he said, that if a decision is more or less instantanteous (without much forethought) that "décider de" woiuld be better.  Do others use "décider à"  and "decider de" the way Gil has suggested. 

I'm interested in whether choosing between "se décider à plus the infinitive" or "décider de" plus the infinitive is a difficult issue for French people.  To me, it seems (at least based on the Treatise rules that I've seen, that there's a lot of overlap, and thatmany cases in a very similar sentence either ''se décider à" or dècider de" could be justified. 

Or at least I'm hoping so.


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## LV4-26

MelB, you can't say _je m'ai décidé_ because _*se *décider_ is a reflexive verb (or a verb used reflexively which comes to the same) and as such, should be used with the_ "être"_ auxiliary.
Hence, _je me* suis *décidé.

_As for their meaning, I think you'll get a fairly good approach if you think of "_décider_ _de_" as translating "_decide_" and "_se décider à_" as meaning "_make up one's mind".

_Here is an example_
Je me suis décidé à travailler
_This means I spent quite a long time doing nothing because I was tired or lazy but finally started to work because I just *had* to.


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## MelB

LV4-26, 

Ughhh, sorry about using "avoir" there.  It was a slip.  

On the main issue, I can understand the treatment you're suggest.  It was what Gil suggested.  

But I need help on these examples from Byrne and Churchill's A Comprehensive French Grammar, 4th Edit. 

They say:  "décider de" (quelque chose) is to be used when one must 'decide about (something)', e.g., "Le gouvernement a décidé de l'avenir du projet." Or "Le comité en décidera."  

Now the Government doesn't just decide the future of a project.  There's study and background work that goes into making a decision.  I know.  I worked for years in the Government.  Here's what I'm thinking.  The two examples given in the Grammar do not involve an infinitive following, "décider de" or "se décider à."  Perhaps, the rule that you and Gil suggested, relating to the need for the writer to factor in how much work goes into making a decision is strictly for picking between "décider de" and "se décider à" when an infinitive follows the verb "décider" or "se décider."  

In other cases one must always use "décider de" (quelque chose) when a decision is made about something, even if it took a lot of work to reach that decision (when that decision is reflectedin a noun following the verb 
"décider,"  That would explain the examples in the Grammar treatise where presumably work went into the Government's reaching its decision.  
What do you think?


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## LV4-26

MelB said:
			
		

> Now the Government doesn't just decide the future of a project. There's study and background work that goes into making a decision. I know. I worked for years in the Government.


You're right. Actually the time it takes to make the decision doesn't matter in the case of "_décider de_". (just as with the English "_decide_"). It can be long or short. It only matters in the case of "_*se* décider à + inf"_ where it has to be long.


> The two examples given in the Grammar do not involve an infinitive following, "décider de" or "se décider à."


Right. You can have an infinitive *or a noun *in both cases
Décider
_L'arbitre décidera de la régularité des coups _(more or less like "judging")
_L'issue de ce débat décidera de notre avenir_ (more or less like "determining")

Can also be used transitively
_Les médecins ont décidé l'opération
_(but this use is rare so I won't insist on it as it would only make matters more complicated)

Se décider
_Les juges se sont décidés pour l'acquittement. _(more or less _opted for_)

Note that [se décider* à *+ *noun*] doesn't exist. It has to be [se décider *pour*] if you want to use a noun after it.


I'll get back to you for further explanations if you want (I have to go). 

To make a long story short : yes, you're right in assuming that the time and work (and even pain sometimes) factors involved in making the decision only concern [se décider à + infinitive] and, to a lesser degree, 'se décider pour + noun'.
They have no influence whatsoever on "décider".


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## MelB

LV4-26, 

Very good.  I understand most of what you wrote.  

One concern, though.  You said:  

"You're right. Actually the time it takes to make the decision doesn't matter in the case of "décider de". (just as with the English "decide"). It can be long or short. It only matters in the case of "se décider à + inf" where it has to be long."

Are you suggesting that even if it takes a long time to make a decision, involving much analysis, consideration, I am never wrong to use, 
"décider de + the infinitive?"--that that is a safe choice to make.  That would be interesting to know.   

But then if want to emphasize the time spent/energy necessary to make a decision, I can use "se décider à + the infinitive, because that construction gives emphasis to those matters.  

     *     *     * 

On that other issues, it sounds like I can use "décider de + (quelque chose) (the noun) REGARDLESS as to the amount of time spent, that indeed, there is no "décider à construction in French).  However, if I want to emphasize the time spent, I can use "se décider pour" + quelque chose) (to emphasisze the time/energy spent making the decision).

I didn't understand that rare exception that doesn't follow "décider" with a "de" an "à" or a "pour":  "Les médecins ont décidé l'opération" (not even sure I can translate it right) (The doctors decided the operation?????) (the doctors decided in favor of operating???); but since it's so rare, I shouldn't focus on it right now.     

Merci d'avance pour votr'aide!


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## OlivierG

You can use both forms, but with a slightly different meaning:
"Les médecins ont décidé de l'opérer": they decided to operate, that's all.
"Les médecins se sont décidés à l'opérer": they were reluctant, or not absolutely sure about it, but they finally came to a decision.


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## LV4-26

MelB said:
			
		

> (......)
> it sounds like I can use "décider de + (quelque chose) (the noun) REGARDLESS as to the amount of time spent, that indeed, there is no "décider à construction in French). However, if I want to emphasize the time spent, I can use "se décider pour" + quelque chose) (to emphasisze the time/energy spent making the decision).


Correct on both counts.
1. In [décider de + infinitive], there is no information about the time it took. This information isn't considered relevant. You can even have details in the previous sentences suggesting that the decision was long to make - or not have them. 
 2 .As you said, you'll use _se décider à_ if you want to emphasize that the decision was long and/or hard to make. 
  Also note that "_se décider à_" is often combined with "_enfin_" or "_finalement_" to insist even more on the time element.
_Il s'est enfin décidé à travailler.
Finalement, je me suis décidé à lui écrire.
Au bout du compte, je me suis décidé pour la voiture rouge.
_



> I am never wrong to use, "décider de + the infinitive?"--that that is a safe choice to make. That would be interesting to know.


Absolutely. 





> "Les médecins ont décidé l'opération" (not even sure I can translate it right) (The doctors decided in favor of operating)


 That's right, that's what it means.


			
				OlivierG said:
			
		

> "Les médecins ont décidé de l'opérer": they decided to operate, that's all.


 That's right. This sentence and the one above _(ont décidé l'opération)_ are more or less interchangeable though this one will come up more often.



> "Les médecins se sont décidés à l'opérer": they were reluctant, or not absolutely sure about it, but they finally came to a decision.


 We're in perfect agreement.


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## MelB

LV4-26, 

Vous m'avez expliqué la différence entre "se décider à", "décider de", et "se décider pour", et vous avez fait simple ce qui d'abord m'a semblé très complexe.  Peut-être vous êtes un prof en France. Si non, vous le pourriez bien être 

 Mille fois merci.


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## LV4-26

MelB said:
			
		

> Mille fois merci.


De rien. J'ai  aussi appris des choses en  essayant d'expliquer. 
River, Gil, Starcreator, Olivier et moi-même sommes ravis d'avoir pu vous être utiles.


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## coppergirl

Bonjour a tous!

Je ne comprends pas la difference entre "je m'y suis decidée de faire quelque chose" et "j'ai decidé de faire quelque chose".

Est-ce que quelqu'un pourrait me l'expliquer? 

Merci! 

PS Je serais tres contente aussi si quelqu'un puisse me corriger le francais---il y'a longtemps que je ne le parle.


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## LeGuch

En général, "décider *de* faire qqch" se traduit par "to decide to do sth" tandis que "se décider *à* faire qqch" se traduit par "to make up one's mind to do sth".


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## coppergirl

Merci LeGuch!


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## kate123

Une grosse sorcière qui se tenait devant lui, *se décida* enfin
à bouger et il put alors lire l'écriteau posé à côté du balai


--->Is it ok to say *décida* instead of *se décida* in this sentence?

And if not, what's the big difference between just <decided to move> and <decided for herself to move>


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## Gentiléen

both are possible, but they don't carry the same preposition
se décider + à + infinitive  --> il se décida à bouger
décider + de + infinitive --> il décida de bouger


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## marget

Gentiléen said:


> both are possible, but they don't carry the same preposition
> se décider + à + infinitive --> il se décida à bouger
> décider + de + infinitive --> il décida de bouger


 
Also décider de + infinitive  means to decide to do something and se décider à + infinitive means to make up one's mind to do something.


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## Erinan

That's what I would say, yes. And I would add that, to me, *enfin* forces you to use *se décider* but that may just be me.

Il décida enfin de bouger -> sounds really weird to me, and I would not say it
Il se décida enfin à bouger -> perfect


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## kate123

thank you -----------!


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## Smerpy

This may help a bit.

From my experience, "décider" will be more likely used when you are choosing between several options as in:

"Il décida de prendre le papier bleu plutôt que le vert."

Whereas "se décider" might be used when you are reluctant to doing something, but that you finally give in to yourself:

"Après avoir regardé la télé pendant deux heures, il se décida à aller faire les courses"

This is in no way a grammatical rule, and is not to be taken "au pied de la lettre".


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## Politabonita

bringing this thread back to life 

"j'ai lu tous les grands faits divers des années 30 aux années 70. quelque chose m'attirait mais je ne me decidais pas"

"something attracted me (to the news stories) but i wasn't sure what."

qu'est-ce qu'on pense? 

merci!


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## - RG -

En passant, j'ai une question...



> PS Je serais tres contente aussi si quelqu'un *puisse* me corriger le francais---il y'a longtemps que je ne le parle


 
Je n'utilise jamais (et je ne connais personne qui le fasse (ou encore _qui le ferait_)) le subjonctif après le "si". Selon moi, l'emploi du subjonctif est réservé uniquement après le "que" et le "qui".

Qu'en dites-vous? Merci!


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## pasclovis

En effet, il faut un "que" ou "qui" pour utiliser le subjonctif. Jamais après un "si". Le seul cas auquel je pense où il n'y a pas de "que" ou "qui" seraient des phrases de ce type :

Puisses-tu avoir raison !


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## francaispourmoi

Bonjour les amis.

What is the difference between... "Je me suis decidé" and "J'ai decidé"?

They are both past tense, right? Meaning "I decided" or "I have decided". 

Merci.


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## Maître Capello

_Je me suis décidé *à*_ (pronominal) implies that you first hesitated before doing it, whereas _J'ai décidé *de*_ (non-pronominal) just means that you decided something…

Regarding the tense you should use in English, I'm afraid it depends on the context—_J'ai décidé_ would sometimes be translated to _I decided_ and sometimes to _I *have* decided_…


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## guyper

1."Je décide de courir"

2."Je me décide à courir"

Hi,

Is the 1st one simply more formal than the second one, and their meanings, the same?

Thank you


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## snarkhunter

Hello,

To me, "je me décide à" implies you've been considering doing so for some time before actually doing it!
And "je décide de" may as well be an _instant decision_ you've made. But no-one can tell for sure here.


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## Oddmania

Hi,

I think as much  _Décider _is plain neutral. On the other hand, _se décider à_ is much less dull. It implies that you've made up your mind, that you've brought yourself to do it. It implies quite a long consideration. It feels like you've _*finally *_decided to do it.

_Je me suis (enfin) décidé à faire du sport._


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