# Bush-walker



## akamu

Come si traduce in italiano "bush-walker", parola trovata per indicare due persone che facevano un viaggio in Tasmania?


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## TimLA

Ciao!
"Bush" nel contesto di Australia/New Zealand indica la campana selvaggia,
e si trove sul Corriere come foresta, selva, fitta.

Su WIKI e' paesaggio.

Qundii sarebbe qualcosa come "una persona che cammina sul paesaggio".

Probabilmente  tu, o un'altra anima pia puo' farla meglio.


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## Necsus

Credo semplicemente 'escursionisti', visto che (QUI):
"A 65-year-old man bushwalker (what Australians call “hikers”)..." 

(ciao, Tim!  fatto vacanzina?)


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## akamu

Mi sa che escursionisti va bene, salvo poi spiegare che il "Bush" australiano è intraducibile, essendo un paesaggio tipico di quei luoghi!
Grazie mille!


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## pask46

Potresti sempre rifarti alle traduzioni di "Mr Crocodile Dundee"...
lì si pralva di "boscaglia", per indicare il paesaggio australiano.


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## You little ripper!

Does *escursionista della boscaglia* make sense in Italian?


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## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> Does *escursionista della boscaglia* make sense in Italian?


It makes sense (that is the meaning is understandable) yet it sounds rather weird..


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## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> It makes sense (that is the meaning is understandable) yet it sounds rather weird..


 Thanks Paul. The *bush* in *bush-walker* works like an adjective. Is there any way of turning *boscaglia* into an adjective?


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## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> Thanks Paul. The *bush* in *bush-walker* works like an adjective. Is there any way of turning *boscaglia* into an adjective?


Not that I'm aware of..


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## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> Not that I'm aware of..


De Mauro says of *bosciaolo*:

 2 agg., relativo al bosco, tipico del bosco

I suppose *escursionista boscaiolo* sounds strange as well.


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## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> De Mauro says of *bosciaolo*:
> 
> 2 agg., relativo al bosco, tipico del bosco
> 
> I suppose *escursionista boscaiolo* sounds strange as well.


Two problems here: most of the people would expect boscaiolo to mean lumberjack and a I believe an Aussie bush is quite different from a wood, isn't it?


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## london calling

OK, silly question of the day!

Boscimani = Bushmen: è una tribù di pigmei che vive nel deserto del Kalahari.

Volendo "coniare" un termine per tradurre "bush-walker", visto che gli equivalenti inglesi sono un po' banali, potremmo partire da qui? Che ne dite?


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## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> Two problems here: most of the people would expect boscaiolo to mean lumberjack and a I believe an Aussie bush is quite different from a wood, isn't it?


Yes, it is. So I presume *boscaiolo *refers only to a wood and not a bush. What about *boscagliolo*?


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## Paulfromitaly

Charles Costante said:


> Yes, it is. So I presume *boscaiolo *refers only to a wood and not a bush. What about *boscagliolo*?


It'd be a useful word but I believe it's not been invented yet


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## You little ripper!

Paulfromitaly said:


> It'd be a useful word but I believe it's not been invented yet


 But someone came up with it before I did.  boscagliolo


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## pask46

Charles,
that's just another spelling of "boscaiolo", as the inter-vowel "i" is often pronounced as the sound "gli" (it's not standard italian, though). In older times (1860-1900) many words with that "i" were written with a "j" instead:

operajo=operaio
projezione=proiezione

so we can't use "boscagliolo" or "boscaiolo", as Paul stated they stand for lumberjack, timber.
But I have a question: is "bush-walker" meant as an expert scout who can lead tourists (for example) through the bush?
Or is generic for a guy who likes excursions in the bush?


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## furs

As far as I know bushwalker is just the Austrailan word for hiker, i.e. escursionista.


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## You little ripper!

pask46 said:


> Charles,
> that's just another spelling of "boscaiolo", as the inter-vowel "i" is often pronounced as the sound "gli" (it's not standard italian, though). In older times (1860-1900) many words with that "i" were written with a "j" instead:
> 
> operajo=operaio
> projezione=proiezione
> 
> so we can't use "boscagliolo" or "boscaiolo", as Paul stated they stand for lumberjack, timber.
> But I have a question: is "bush-walker" meant as an expert scout who can lead tourists (for example) through the bush?
> Or is generic for a guy who likes excursions in the bush?


Thanks _pask._ 

_Furs_ is right. A *bushwalker* is simply someone who likes to walk in the bush. Not to be mistaken for a bush tracker (usually aboriginal), who has the remarkable ability of tracking down humans, animals, edible plants and water by reading the ground.


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## Necsus

Ehm... post #3:


> Credo semplicemente 'escursionisti', visto che (QUI):
> "A 65-year-old man bushwalker (what Australians call “hikers”)..."


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## You little ripper!

Necsus said:


> Ehm... post #3:


Necsus, Australians do not call them *hikers*. We call them *bushwalkers. *
A *bushwalker* likes to take long walks specifically in bush areas. A *hiker* likes to take long walks anywhere.


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## pask46

So * bush-walker* will remain _down under_ with no translation!
"Escursionista" is the only chance, but has nothing to do with the kind of environment you might explore!

By the way... funny how USA President is George _*Walker Bush*_...


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## Necsus

Charles Costante said:


> Necsus, Australians do not call them *hikers*. We call them *bushwalkers. *
> A *bushwalker* likes to take long walks specifically in bush areas. A *hiker* likes to take long walks anywhere.


Yes, Charles, I got it, I was referring to 'escursionista' as Italian translation.


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## You little ripper!

pask46 said:


> So *bush-walker* will remain _down under_ with no translation!
> "Escursionista" is the only chance, but has nothing to do with the kind of environment you might explore!
> 
> By the way... funny how USA President is George _*Walker Bush*_...


Interesting to know, pask. I've always known him as *W* (pronounced dubbelyuh) and didn't realize is stood for _Walker_. 



> I was referring to 'escursionista' as Italian translation.


I don't think that word really describes a *bush walker* in the same way that a *hiker* doesn't in English. A *trekker* is someone who hikes through mountainous terrain, but to call him a *hiker* doesn't really describe him.


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## miri

Ragazzini has: 
*bushwalking 
n.  
(Austral.) (il fare) escursioni nel bush: to go bushwalking, fare escursioni (o un'escursione) nel bush.*
e
*bush
 (in Australia) the bush, il bush; le zone disabitate e coperte di boscaglia

*So, couldn't "bush walker" be translated as "escursionista del bush"?I am afraid very few people would understand what it means, though* ...
*


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> Ragazzini has:
> *bushwalking *
> *n. *
> *(Austral.) (il fare) escursioni nel bush: to go bushwalking, fare escursioni (o un'escursione) nel bush.*
> e
> *bush*
> *(in Australia) the bush, il bush; le zone disabitate e coperte di boscaglia*
> 
> So, couldn't "bush walker" be translated as "escursionista del bush"?I am afraid very few people would understand what it means, though* ...*



That's why I suggested *escursionista della boscaglia* earlier, but Paul says it's sounds a bit weird in Italian.


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## miri

"Escursionista dei boschi" does not sound that bad!


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## You little ripper!

miri said:


> "Escursionista dei boschi" does not sound that bad!


But *bosco* is a little different to *boscaglia.* I think your suggestion of  "escursionista del bush" is probably the best. The word "bush" will catch on eventually, like so many other English words.


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## london calling

Charles Costante said:


> But *bosco* is a little different to *boscaglia.* I think your suggestion of "escursionista del bush" is probably the best. The word "bush" will catch on eventually, like so many other English words.


 
I think it's already caught on, judging by the number of documentaries and travel articles that I've seen/read in Italian that talk about the "bush"!  And not just the Aussie bush either, but the African bush as well.

Brava miri!


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## pask46

Well... the bush (Aussie bush) has become very popular due to documentaries (that blonde Aussie man who used to catch with animals... I don't remember the name... he passed away not so long ago) and the translation "boscaglia" has come to popularity after the "Crocodile Dundee" serie.
But the point is... given that, to an Aussie, saying "bush-walker" is quite as saying "hiker"... which is the need of an Italian translation that could keep the "bush" part?

I mean: in French they call a traffic light a *feu-rouge, *why should we try to translate it in Italian keeping the _rouge_?
A "semaforo" is a "semaforo"... not a "semaforo rosso" if it comes from a French text... (not to consider what a red light means!).
So I wonder, again... if a "bush-walker" is an "escursionista", why the hell should we specify he/she is an "escursionista della boscaglia"?
If I go in Antarctica I don't transform myself into an "ice-hiker", as I don't become a "desert-hiker" or an "escursionista del deserto" if I travel in sahara.
Just because in that given country or continent I can only travel through ice or desert, it doesn't affect the meaning and the translation of the word "escursionista" or "traveller".
...

Maybe I miss some hidden meaning or some kind of nuance...


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## london calling

pask46 said:


> Well... the bush (Aussie bush) has become very popular due to documentaries (that blonde Aussie man who used to catch with animals... I don't remember the name...Steve Irwin, I think! and the translation "boscaglia" has come to popularity after the "Crocodile Dundee" serie.
> But the point is... given that, to an Aussie, saying "bush-walker" is quite as saying "hiker"... But it isn't! Did you see what our resident Aussie Charles wrote in answer to you? And I agree (I also lived in Oz as a kid, hiking and bush-walking aren't the same thing, regardless of what the dictionaries say) which is the need of an Italian translation that could keep the "bush" part? Because bush and _bosco/boscaglia_ aren't exactly the same thing, as Charles has pointed out!
> 
> I mean: in French they call a traffic light a *feu-rouge, *why should we try to translate it in Italian keeping the _rouge_?
> A "semaforo" is a "semaforo"... not a "semaforo rosso" if it comes from a French text... (not to consider what a red light means!).I agree with you that when there is a perfectly good word in Italian, it should be used! I get very annoyed with people who use English (or any other language) when it isn't necessary! Ma quando ci vuole, ci vuole.....
> So I wonder, again... if a "bush-walker" is an "escursionista", why the hell (calmo e buono! ) should we specify he/she is an "escursionista della boscaglia"?
> If I go in Antarctica I don't transform myself into an "ice-hiker", as I don't become a "desert-hiker" or an "escursionista del deserto" if I travel in sahara. For sure,  in English you definitely wouldn't hike through the Antarctic or the Sahara! You'd trek through a desert....as somebody mentioned earlier. A hiker goes on long walks, but not in the Antatarctic, the Sahara or the bush! However you hike in the woods (_bosco/boschi_).


 
Ciao!


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## You little ripper!

pask46 said:


> Well... the bush (Aussie bush) has become very popular due to documentaries (that blonde Aussie man who used to catch with animals... I don't remember the name... he passed away not so long ago) Steve Irwin and the translation "boscaglia" has come to popularity after the "Crocodile Dundee" serie.
> But the point is... given that, to an Aussie, saying "bush-walker" is quite as saying "hiker"... which is the need of an Italian translation that could keep the "bush" part?
> 
> I mean: in French they call a traffic light a *feu-rouge, *why should we try to translate it in Italian keeping the _rouge_?
> A "semaforo" is a "semaforo"... not a "semaforo rosso" if it comes from a French text... (not to consider what a red light means!).
> So I wonder, again... if a "bush-walker" is an "escursionista", why the hell should we specify he/she is an "escursionista della boscaglia"?
> If I go in Antarctica I don't transform myself into an "ice-hiker", as I don't become a "desert-hiker" or an "escursionista del deserto" if I travel in sahara.
> Just because in that given country or continent I can only travel through ice or desert, it doesn't affect the meaning and the translation of the word "escursionista" or "traveller".
> ...
> 
> Maybe I miss some hidden meaning or some kind of nuance...


Pask, *escursionista* means *hiker* or *walker* and doesn't really describe a *bushwalker*. It's too broad a term. Knowing where the person hikes or walks gives you a completely different image. As I said in post 23, a *trekker* is someone who hikes through mountainous terrain, but to call him a *hiker* doesn't really describe him. In English, a person who hikes through ice is called an *ice hiker* and one who travels through snow a *snow hiker* and someone who travels through the desert a* desert hiker. *

In Italian you have* escursionista alpino.* Isn't that a* mountain hiker?*

P.S. Beaten to it yet again Jo!


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## london calling

Charles Costante said:


> Pask, *escursionista* means *hiker* or *walker* and doesn't really describe a *bushwalker*. It's too broad a term.  As I said in post 23, a *trekker* is someone who hikes through mountainous terrain, but to call him a *hiker* doesn't really describe him. In English, a person who hikes through ice is called an *ice hiker* and one who travels through snow a *snow hiker* and someone who travels through the desert a* desert hiker. *
> 
> P.S. Beaten to it yet again Jo!


Yes, but I see you'd hike through ice, snow and deserts, which I wouldn't! 

Poor Pask, I think we've thoroughly confused you now . Apologies...

However, it is agreed that hiker and bushwalker aren't quite the same thing (and I still think miri's suggestion's the best so far). We're making progress!


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## You little ripper!

london calling said:


> Yes, but I see you'd hike through ice, snow and deserts, which I wouldn't!
> 
> Poor Pask, I think we've thoroughly confused you now . Apologies...
> 
> However, it is agreed that hiker and bushwalker aren't quite the same thing (and I still think miri's suggestion's the best so far). We're making progress!


I agree that *trekking* is more common through the snow, ice, and desert, but one can hike through them as well. 

ice hiker

snow hiker

desert hiker


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## london calling

Charles Costante said:


> I agree that *trekking* is more common through the snow, ice, and desert, but one can hike through them as well.  Dear Charles, I took (and take) your word for it.  It's just that for me a hike is a long leisurely walk on a Sunday in the English countryside, but a trek would be more arduous - ask Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise!


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## You little ripper!

> Dear Charles, I took (and take) your word for it.  It's just that for me a hike is a long leisurely walk on a Sunday in the English countryside, but a trek would be more arduous - ask Captain Kirk of the Starship Enterprise!


You're quite right, Jo. A *hike* is usually done for pleasure and a *trek* tends to be more arduous. The only reason I used* hiking* instead of *trekking*, even though that terminology is not used as much, was to prove that there is a difference. *Bush walking* falls into both categories. It can be either quite pleasant or extremely arduous, depending on which part of the Australian bush you happpen to be doing it.


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## Zenof

Scusate se mi intrometto, ma per una volta che esiste una sola parola in italiano per tante inglesi perchè non la lasciamo?

Io penso che _escursionista_ abbia un significato talmente ampio da comprendere _hiker, trekker, walker ecc._

*Escursione*: gita, scampagnata o viaggio fatto a scopo di studio o di divertimento.
*Escursionismo:*forma di attività motoria basata sul camminare nel territorio, sia lungo percorsi (strade, sentieri, ecc.), anche variamente attrezzati, che liberamente, al di fuori di percorsi fissi.


Escursionismo alpino è l'escursione in montagna, e si utilizza per differenziarlo dall'alpinismo, il cui scopo prinicipale è arrivare su una vetta tramite arrampicata.


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