# 紀伊



## TranSylvania

紀伊 meaning for each kanji and translation to English for both (as a compound) please
Thank you if you can please help.


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## karlalou

Well.. 紀伊 as a whole, it's known as a geographical name of an area in Japan, but we have to look up a dictionary for the meanings of the each letter.
紀 seems to have meanings like 'law' or 'record'.
伊 ... Wiktionary says it used to mean 'this' or 'that'.


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## TranSylvania

karlalou said:


> Well.. 紀伊 as a whole, it's known as a geographical name of an area in Japan, but we have to look up a dictionary for the meanings of the each letter.
> 紀 seems to have meanings like 'law' or 'record'.
> 伊 ... Wiktionary says it used to mean 'this' or 'that'.



Thank you.
I just try to work out the Kinokuniya name components. 紀伊國屋 is a book store name but I just saw it is a soft drink name. I think I can work out kuni (country) and ya (house).

Thanks again.


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## frequency

TranSylvania said:


> 紀伊


It's just a name of location, so don't separate.  We say so. Do you say Viet? No, Vietnam.


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## karlalou

> I just try to work out the Kinokuniya name components. 紀伊國屋 is a book store name but I just saw it is a soft drink name. I think I can work out kuni (country) and ya (house).


Doesn't they have a nice name. I like the look and the idea of it. Why Ki instead of Kii has been my wonder though, it is said that they applied the Chinese letters to きのくに（木国） in the ancient time.
Now we read, for example, 紀伊半島 as Ki-i-han-tou.


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## TranSylvania

frequency said:


> It's just a name of location, so don't separate.  We say so. Do you say Viet? No, Vietnam.



Thank you for your post frequency. I agree but I do try to decode any kanji I see. 越南 is Viet Nam. Viet means "pass" "advance", Nam is "south(wards)".

Likewise Hongkong: hong is "aroma" kong is "port"

So if I pick up any kanji I enjoy it.


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## TranSylvania

karlalou said:


> Doesn't they have a nice name. I like the look and the idea of it. Why Ki instead of Kii has been my wonder though, it is said that they applied the Chinese letters to きのくに（木国） in the ancient time.
> Now we read, for example, 紀伊半島 as Ki-i-han-tou.



Thank you karlalou. I now know Ki i peninsula of 本州 honshu, or breaking up it (半島) means "half" and "island"

As for why Ki not Kii, I suspect that they want to brand their name "readable" to 外人 westerners.


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## Flaminius

TranSylvania said:


> As for why Ki not Kii, I suspect that they want to brand their name "readable" to 外人 westerners.


The foreigners that 紀伊 was intended to appeal to were to the west of us just by two or three thousand kilometres, the Chinese.

The ancient Japanese court issued regulations on place names several times by the tenth century to replace former kanji representations by combinations of two characters of good sense.  They seem to be largely motivated by making Japanese place names look like passable Chinese names.  紀 is a flowerly word for "age" or "year."  伊 is not a beautiful word in itself but a Chinese river 伊水, famous in literature, and an ancient sage 伊尹 make it meet the good sense standard.

By the way 半島 (_hantō_) is a calque for _peninsula_ or "almost island (_insula_)."


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## TranSylvania

Flaminius said:


> The foreigners that 紀伊 was intended to appeal to were to the west of us just by two or three thousand kilometres, the Chinese.
> 
> The ancient Japanese court issued regulations on place names several times by the tenth century to replace former kanji representations by combinations of two characters of good sense.  They seem to be largely motivated by making Japanese place names look like passable Chinese names.  紀 is a flowerly word for "age" or "year."  伊 is not a beautiful word in itself but a Chinese river 伊水, famous in literature, and an ancient sage 伊尹 make it meet the good sense standard.
> 
> By the way 半島 (_hantō_) is a calque for _peninsula_ or "almost island (_insula_)."



Thank you Flaminius.
Is this Chinese river 伊水 still called this today? Which province in China?
Is 紀伊國屋 Kinokuniya a place name? Where is it in Japan?

I also just found  伊太利 is Italy.


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## DaylightDelight

TranSylvania said:


> Is 紀伊國屋 Kinokuniya a place name? Where is it in Japan?


It's one of common names for shops/companies.
It literally means "A house of Kii country," and I suppose that's where they originally came from.
There are several known shops/companies with this name:
a supermarket chain 紀ノ国屋, a bookstore chain 紀伊國屋, a sumo ticket booth 紀の国家, also there is a Kabuki family called 紀伊國屋 (these are all read kinokuniya, regardless of the slight differences).



TranSylvania said:


> I also just found 伊太利 is Italy.


In this case, these Kanji characters are chosen entirely for their sound, not their meanings.


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## frequency

TranSylvania said:


> 紀伊國屋 is a book store name


That's right. It's 紀伊國屋＋書店. 紀伊國屋 is 屋号. Don't you know Usama Bin Laden? This "Bin Laden" is similar to 屋号.

Why Kinokuniya, not Ki-i-nokuniya? It's easier to say.


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## Flaminius

TranSylvania said:


> Is this Chinese river 伊水 still called this today? Which province in China?


Its modern name is 伊河, or the Yi River.  So basically the name is unchanged.


> Is 紀伊國屋 Kinokuniya a place name? Where is it in Japan?


Kinokuniya was established by someone whose family was originally from 紀伊国, or today's Wakayama Prefecture.


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## TranSylvania

Thank you DaylightDelight frequency Flaminus. So much good info. I appreciate that.


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