# Hay más pan del que hace falta



## jamieee

Hello.
I am totally freaking out right now because of my spanish exam.
I do not have even the faintest idea about the sentence following.

<Hay mas pan del que hace falta>

I've googled it and it says, 'There is more bread than it takes.' in English.
Well, I guessed it would seem more clear to me if the translation were like this. 'There is more bread of which I am in need.'

Then I realized the fact that 'hace' is not good for the subject 'I' and this sentence following may be correct.

<Hay mas casa de la que hace falta> 


So, I think I do not understand the expression 'hacer falta' and the structure 'mas ~ de el/la que'.

Is there anybody who can help me with this? 
I would appreciate your help.


----------



## Wandering JJ

Well, it means _There is more bread than needed/required/necessary. _

Literally: 
hay más pan de = there is more bread than
el que = that which
hace falta = there is need


----------



## inib

I'll try, but I'm not sure if you are confused about the whole sentence or just the expression "hacer falta".
_Hay más pan del que hace falta_ means _there is more bread than is needed_.
You can make the expression personal by adding an (indirect) object pronoun...
_Hay más pan del que *me* hace falta_ = _There's more bread than* I* need_
_Hay más pan del que* nos* hace falta = There's more bread than *we* need_ etc.


----------



## jamieee

inib, Is 'hacer' a verb like 'gustar'? I certainly didn' know that!


----------



## blasita

Hello Jamieee.

Wandering and Inib have explained it perfectly.


_*hacer falta*. Dicho de una persona o cosa, ‘ser necesaria’. Debe establecerse la *concordancia entre hacer y su sujeto, la persona o cosa necesarias*: «Para arreglar el mundo hacen falta muchas cabezas despejadas» (Barnet Gallego [Cuba 1981]). No es correcto el uso de hacer como invariable: *«Hacía falta ganas y empuje para adentrarse en una aventura como esta» (Abc [Esp.] 14.7.89)._ (DPD)

So, "hacer falta" must agree with the person/thing that is needed. More examples:

_Hacen falta muchas personas buenas en este mundo._ ("Hacen" must agree with "muchas personas buenas", so plural)

_Nos hacen falta más patatas._ ("Hacen" because of "patatas")

_Nos hace falta más leche._ ("Hace" agrees with "leche": singular)

Saludos.


----------



## inib

jamieee said:


> inib, Is 'hacer' a verb like 'gustar'? I certainly didn' know that!


 Not "hacer", but yes, the expression "hacer falta" is impersonal, and if we translate "hacer falta" as "need", I suppose you could say that it's like "gustar" in the sense that the subject and the object are "back-to-front".


----------



## jamieee

I appreciate your explanation, blasita and again, inib.  Now I get it.

Am I correct now with these ones?

Hay mas flores de las que me hacen falta.
Hay mas hija de lo que yo esperaba.  (Is it correct? I am not certain with 'lo'.)


----------



## blasita

jamieee said:


> I appreciate your explanation, blasita and again, inib.  Now I get it.
> 
> Am I correct now with these ones?
> 
> Hay m*á*s flores de las que (me) hacen falta.  *(It´s grammatically correct, but I´d probably say it in a different way)*
> Hay mas hija *(?) *de lo que yo esperaba.  (Is it correct? I am not certain with 'lo'.) *What do you want to say in English?*


----------



## jamieee

I mean 'There are more girls than I've expected.'
Maybe I should have written 'hijas' instead of 'hija'.

And, by the way, I understand that the sentences are not natural, but, I am cramming for the grammar exam. So now I'm focusing on the structure of the expression.


----------



## blasita

jamieee said:


> I mean 'There are more girls than I've expected.'
> Maybe I should have written 'hijas' instead of 'hija'.
> 
> And, by the way, I understand that the sentences are not natural, but, I am cramming for the grammar exam. So now I'm focusing on the structure of the expression.



My try: "Hay más chicas de las que esperaba".  Do you agree, Inib/Wandering/others?


----------



## inib

jamieee said:


> I mean 'There are more girls than I've expected.'
> Maybe I should have written 'hijas' instead of 'hija'.
> 
> And, by the way, I understand that the sentences are not natural, but, I am cramming for the grammar exam. So now I'm focusing on the structure of the expression.


You actually wrote "there is more daughter than I expected", but *ánimo*, you're getting there
As Blasita is probably writing at the same time, I'll leave her to do the rest of the explaining!


----------



## inib

blasita said:


> My try: "Hay más chicas de las que esperaba". Do you agree, Inib/Wandering/others?


 Of course.


----------



## jamieee

blasita said:


> My try: "Hay más chicas de las que esperaba". Do you agree, Inib/Wandering/others?


 
wait, wait, how about 'lo'? 
It sounds stupid, but I am not sure when to use 'de lo que'.
I thought that a sentence including a subject and a verb should be used with 'lo que'. (of course the subject can be omitted.)


----------



## blasita

jamieee said:


> wait, wait, how about 'lo'?
> It sounds stupid, but I am not sure when to use 'de lo que'.
> I thought that a sentence including a subject and a verb should be used with 'lo que'. (of course the subject can be omitted.)



"Más _leche_ de _la_ ..." ("Leche" is feminine)

"Más _pan_ del (de _el_) ..." ("Pan" is masculine)

"Tenemos más de _lo_ que necesitamos" ("Lo" is neuter)

But I´ll let them explain it further (sure they´ll do it better).


----------



## jamieee

For those who might be confused by this long thread......

Now my question is, in other words, what's the difference between 'del/de la que ' and 'de lo que'?

I thought that a sentence including a verb should be used with 'de lo que', but Blasita said 'Hay más chicas de las que esperaba' is correct, which is contrary to my initial guess.

Anybody?


----------



## Wandering JJ

blasita said:


> My try: "Hay más chicas de las que esperaba". Do you agree, Inib/Wandering/others?


 
Natutally I agree 100%! 

The English is a little strange - the use of "I've" is strange. I would have written:

There are more girls than I expected, or, there are more girls than I was expecting, both of which tie up nicely with your "hay más chicas de las que esperaba."


----------



## blasita

Thanks, Inib and Wandering.



jamieee said:


> For those who might be confused by this long thread......
> 
> Now my question is, in other words, what's the difference between 'del/de la que ' and 'de lo que'?
> 
> I thought that a sentence including a verb should be used with 'de lo que', but Blasita said 'Hay más chicas de las que esperaba' is correct, which is contrary to my initial guess.
> 
> Anybody?




Yes, because in that sentence "las" refers to "chicas" (de las chicas que esperaba). But you can also say "de lo que (yo) esperaba". Oof, I may not be explaining myself. Help, please!


----------



## jamieee

Wandering JJ, yes, 
'I was expecting' would be much better, thanks. I keep getting drowy for hours.
I still do not get the 'de lo que' things.....
if we can use 'chicas de las que esperaba' then when do you use 'lo' ? 
Again, lo...........


----------



## inib

As blasita said, "lo" is neutral, so it's generally used to refer to a concept, rather than people or objects.
Fue más difícil de lo que creía = it was more difficult than I thought = (than my preconcieved idea).
I know I'm generalising, so feel free to correct me, but I was trying to answer the question in context.


----------



## Wandering JJ

jamieee said:


> For those who might be confused by this long thread......
> 
> Now my question is, in other words, what's the difference between 'del/de la que ' and 'de lo que'?
> 
> I thought that a sentence including a verb should be used with 'de lo que', but Blasita said 'Hay más chicas de las que esperaba' is correct, which is contrary to my initial guess.
> 
> Anybody?


 
The thread started with "Hay mas pan del que hace falta" and I thought you now understood that we use "del" (= de el) because "pan" is masculine singular. 

You then asked if your suggestion "Hay mas flores* de las que* me hacen falta" was correct, which, apart from the spelling of "más" is perfect!

Blasita's "Hay más chicas *de las que* esperaba" is perfect and follows the same pattern that you were quite happy with in the above phrase. In both cases the noun is feminine plural - hence the use of "de las que" rather than "del que" or "de los que", etc.


----------



## jamieee

inib said:


> As blasita said, "lo" is neutral, so it's generally used to refer to a concept, rather than people or objects.
> Fue más difícil de lo que creía = it was more difficult than I thought = (than my preconcieved idea).
> I know I'm generalising, so feel free to correct me, but I was trying to answer the question in context.


 
You mean, when I say a concept or whatever which is not an object, then I use 'de lo que' and otherwise, only 'del que' or 'de la que' can be used. Am I right?
Then, given the information, I guess...

Hay mas chicas de lo que esperaba (incorrect)
Hay mas chicas de las que esperaba (correct)
Hay mas facil de lo que me dijiste (correct)


p.s. 
'mas *flores* le *las* que' yes, wandering JJ. Now it makes sense to me, too. I just got curious about the usage of 'de lo que' with the verb 'esperba'. Am I correct with the sentencs above?


----------



## inib

Wandering JJ,
 To be fair, jaimeee had this doubt from the beginning: [QUOTE JAIMEEE:So, I think I do not understand the expression 'hacer falta' *and the structure 'mas ~ de el/la que'.*QUOTE]
But we just zoned in to one part of it.


----------



## inib

jamieee said:


> Hay mas facil de lo que me dijiste (correct)
> Es más fácil de lo que me dijiste.


----------



## Wandering JJ

Inib - fair point! I was concentrating on the 'de las que...' part. It's actually quite complex, even for Indo-European language speakers to understand these two constructions: it must be murder for a Korean! I think we all appreciate his excellent command of English, which is why we keep contributing to this thread.


----------



## blasita

Jamiee, in my post #17, I said that in my opinion the two sentences are correct.

_Hay más chicas de las que esperaba_  ("las" se refiere a "chicas"), and _Hay más chicas de lo que esperaba_ ("lo" se refiere a la cosa, a "lo" que yo esperaba, a "esperar", no a "chicas"). ¿Estáis de acuerdo?

Estoy intentando explicarlo de manera simple (¿quizás demasiado simple?).


----------



## jamieee

Aha. Inib, I did not think of the verb...what a stupid.

And...Wandering JJ. As a matter of fact, I've been learning French as well, thus feminine/masculine problem is quite familliar to me. There is no such thing in Korean for sure. I wonder how you knew that.

Blasita....oops, I did not notice that. My eyelids got heavier and heavier and heavier....... anyway I get it from inib's thread(? or post? whatever..).
Maybe your explanation was too simple to understand because I do not have even the basics of Spanish. Like I said, I'm in the middle of cramming (I'm regretful OMG)

Once again I appreciate all of you!


----------



## inib

I admire your interest, Jaimieee, but I warn you that when threads get very long, we all tend to get mixed up...(lots of answers cross). It is true that Blasita said in post 17 that you could say both "hay más chicas de *lo que*/*las que* esperaba", but I didn't catch it either then. 
So I think the version with "lo que" means there are more girls than my preconceived idea of what the party was going to be like/how enjoyable it would be.
And "hay más chicas de las que esperaba" is a lot more exact. It talks about numbers and suggests that I expected 5 girls, but to my delight (or otherwise!) 20 turned up.
(EDIT: So after all that, what I mean is that it is a difference of focus, not a question of using "creer" or "esperar", if that's what you meant when you referred to "the verb".)


----------



## blasita

inib said:


> So I think the version with "lo que" means there are more girls than my preconceived idea of what the party was going to be like/how enjoyable it would be.
> And "hay más chicas de las que esperaba" is a lot more exact. It talks about numbers and suggests that I expected 5 girls, but to my delight (or otherwise!) 20 turned up.



Well, I said it … They´re much better than me!

I agree with the nuance you point out, Inib.  If I say “las que”, I had expected a number of girls coming, but more turned up (you explained it much better).

Saludos.


----------

