# Are you working, or are you at work?



## rich7

Hi everybody, here I am again asking some, maybe, silly questions:

When receiving a phone call from a friend, should I ask: "are you at work?" or "are you working?" supposing he's in his office?


And also, let's assume that I resigned from work this past monday, and somebody asked me about my job, is it all right, ( by the way: alright or all right?) If I say this: "I'm unemployed as of monday" ? They let me go as of monday.

P.S  Are all my punctuation marks correct?


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## jacinta

I have no corrections for you.  All of your sentences are fine.  Good job!


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## Nick

rich7 said:
			
		

> When receiving a phone call from a friend, should I ask: "are you at work?" or "are you working?" supposing he's in his office?


Either one is fine. 

The first sentence means "Are you in the office?" while the second sentence means "Are you doing work?" (he could be doing work at home, etc., or he could be at the office but being lazy ).


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## Eddie

rich7 said:
			
		

> * When receiving a phone call from a friend, should I ask: "Are you at work?" or "Are you working?" Suppose he's in his office?
> 
> And also, let's assume that I resigned from work this past Monday, and somebody asked me about my job. (period, new sentence) Is it all right if I say this: "I'm unemployed as of Monday" ? They let me go as of Monday.
> 
> P.S  Are all my punctuation marks correct?*


*
Alright is a nonstandard variant of all right.*


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## rich7

Thanks a lot Eddie, that's exactly what I was looking for.


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## foxfirebrand

Reminds me of a common greeting in my neck of the woods.

"Well how're you doing?  You hard at work-- or hardly working?"

(in 2nd phrase _hardly_ = _scarcely_, i.e. hardly working at all)


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## gaer

Eddie said:
			
		

> _Alright _is a nonstandard variant of _all right_.


There is a bit of info about "alright" here.

I would not say that it is non-standard. I would call it a variant, and a very common one too. 

I believe there was a thread about this, but I can't find it. 

I do think that IF you want to be sure you are never criticized, it is safer to use "all right".  

Gaer


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## axolotl66

I'd ask the chap "Are you at work?", meaning are you in the office. I would ask "Are you working?" if I didn't want to interrupt him whilst he was busy.

"As of Monday" sounds fine to me.

"They let me go" sounds AE.

Alright is all right by me! Interchangeable I would say, "all right" better if you want to be more formal.


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## rich7

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> Reminds me of a common greeting in my neck of the woods.
> 
> "Well how're you doing? You hard at work-- or hardly working?"
> 
> (in 2nd phrase _hardly_ = _scarcely_, i.e. hardly working at all)


 
What does the highlighted expression mean?


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## foxfirebrand

"My neck of the woods" simply means my area, my particular environs. The word _neck_ applies to a stretch of coastline that doubles back on itself, I'd say it's a protrusion not prominent enough to be a promontory, or a narrow connective bit of land connecting a small promontory.   Sometimes necks are submerged at high tide, and the "promontory" becomes a small island, or simply "rock."  On a larger, more continental scale you'd call such a feature an isthmus-- but it usually goes the other way in AE, where people give up on the tongue-twisting borrowed-Greek term and call an isthmus a neck.

As the great forests have long been reduced to isolated island-like stands of woods, I think _neck_ must've come into the language by analogy. A neck connects a protrusion of wooded growth into an upper drainage, just as a neck connects a small promontory to the mainland. Often settlers cleared the upper part of a drainage and left the narrow (neck-like)entry to their particular "holler" overgrown except for the trail or lane, an easily-defended entryway that would be regionally known as someone's particular neck of the woods.


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## panjandrum

I am sure that foxfirebrand will reply with a full explanation, but 
"in my neck of the woods" 
means 
"where I live".

I will leave it for ffb to explain, comprehensively, why

 Oh spit and botheration - he's gone and posted his comprehensive answer a millisecond before me.


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## foxfirebrand

panjandrum said:
			
		

> I will leave it for ffb to explain, comprehensively, why


 
Look back a post, Panj-- I guess I done outflanked you. Maybe the opening to my holler is so well overgrowed a feller could stroll right past it.  I gotta get down there with the bramble hook some day.


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## rich7

Sorry for the delay, but, quite an explanation you two gave.


THanks....


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## elroy

rich7 said:
			
		

> Hi everybody, here I am again asking some, maybe, silly questions:
> 
> When receiving a phone call from a friend, should I ask: "are you at work?" or "are you working?" supposing he's in his office?
> 
> 
> And also, let's assume that I resigned from work this past monday, and somebody asked me about my job, is it all right, ( by the way: alright or all right?) If I say this: "I'm unemployed as of monday" ? They let me go as of monday.
> 
> P.S Are all my punctuation marks correct?


 
There seems to be some things everybody overlooked:

In the first sentence, "as of Monday" is ok but I'm wondering about the tense of the verb (I *am* unemployed), given that you have already resigned.

To me, "I am unemployed as of Monday" means that I will be unemployed as of this coming Monday.

If I resigned last Monday, I would say 

*I have been unemployed since Monday*.

As for the second suggestion, I would not say "as of" but "on":

*They let me go on Monday.*


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## rich7

So, in your opinion when  would it be apropiate, or, how would you use the structure "as of" regarding time?


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## elroy

rich7 said:
			
		

> So, in your opinion when would it be apropiate, or, how would you use the structure "as of" regarding time?


 
"as of" = "a partir de" in Spanish

You cannot use it when you have a past tense verb referring to a specific event.

They laid me off on Monday.
They fired me on Monday.
I resigned on Monday.

but

I will be unemployed as of Monday.
I have been unemployed as of last Monday.
I will no longer work here as of Monday. 

Is it clear now?


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## Nick

Also okay:
I am unemployed as of Thursday.


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## elroy

Nick said:
			
		

> Also okay:
> I am unemployed as of Thursday.


 
Yes, but it would refer to the future and not last Thursday.


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## Nick

Last Monday:
I *was *unemployed as of Monday.
I *have been* unemployed as of Monday.

This Monday:
I *am *unemployed as of Monday.
I *will be* unemployed as of Monday.


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## elroy

Nick said:
			
		

> Last Monday:
> I *was *unemployed as of Monday.
> I *have been* unemployed as of Monday.
> 
> This Monday:
> I *am *unemployed as of Monday.
> I *will be* unemployed as of Monday.


 
Well, I don't like "I was unemployed as of Monday" because you're still unemployed.  But that could be splitting hairs...

Also, I think "since" sounds better than "as of" with "have been."


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## rich7

Well I will invite others to weigh in...........


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## panjandrum

OK: Don't use "as of".
It completely unnecessary.


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## elroy

panjandrum said:
			
		

> OK: Don't use "as of".
> It completely unnecessary.


 
Not even in the future?  I'll be unemployed as of Monday, for example?


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## panjandrum

elroy said:
			
		

> Not even in the future? I'll be unemployed as of Monday, for example?


After this week I'll be unemployed.
I'll be unemployed from next Monday.

I really don't like "as of"


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## elroy

panjandrum said:
			
		

> After this week I'll be unemployed.
> I'll be unemployed from next Monday.
> 
> I really don't like "as of"


 
I see - so it's just a personal quirk.   

I personally think "as of" would sound much better than "from" in your second example.

As I think about it more, though, I'm aware that in speech I'd more likely say "starting."

I'll be unemployed *starting* next Monday.

or even

I'll be unemployed *from* Monday *on*.


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## foxfirebrand

How do you feel about _as of yet?_ or _as of yesterday?_  I may have too great a fondness for the quirkily idiomatic, but I can't shake the feeling that there's such a thing as "as ofness," and we'd be the worse without a name for it.


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## gaer

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> How do you feel about _as of yet?_ or _as of yesterday?_ I may have too great a fondness for the quirkily idiomatic, but I can't shake the feeling that there's such a thing as "as ofness," and we'd be the worse without a name for it.


I'm sensing a difference between formal and informal usage. I think all the phrases you guys are talking about might be done in two different ways.

*(Check this out)*

Frankly, I think the opinion of this is person is as windy and pretentious as the worst "flatulence", but he MAY have a point. But "as of yesterday" and "as of this coming Monday" sound just fine to me.

However, I would say: Starting next Monday I will be unemployed. (I'd probably use something more "colorful" for "unemployed", such as s*** out of luck.)  

I think we always have to think about what style we are using for writing, or whether we are talking about writing AND speech, or just speech. 

Gaer


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## foxfirebrand

"And yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means one thing.

"And as of yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means another.


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## gaer

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> "And yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means one thing.
> 
> "And as of yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means another.


But I'm not sure there is a difference in these:

"And as of yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin."
"And I haven't yet quit shooting heroin." 
"And I haven't quit shooting heroin yet."

This does not mean I agree with the link I included though!  

Gaer


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## panjandrum

elroy said:
			
		

> I see - so it's just a personal quirk.


 Oh indeed... 
... but I so often find that my personal quirks turn out, sooner or later, to be profound statements of linguistic correctness, inscribed in the psyche of language experts everywhere.  

And as of yet ...

Just let me have a look at those words for a moment or two...

And
as
of
yet
.......

... yet of as And....

...tey fo sa dnA

Sorry.
No matter what way I look at them, I can't associate any meaning with the four of them clumped together like that


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## elroy

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> "And yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means one thing.
> 
> "And as of yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means another.


 
But

"As of yet, I haven't quit" = "I haven't quit as of yet" = "I haven't quit yet"

Mind you, I like "as of" too; I'm just playing devil's advocate to see if it can indeed be avoided at all times.


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## elroy

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Oh indeed...
> ... but I so often find that my personal quirks turn out, sooner or later, to be profound statements of linguistic correctness, inscribed in the psyche of language experts everywhere.
> 
> And as of yet ...
> 
> Just let me have a look at those words for a moment or two...
> 
> And
> as
> of
> yet
> .......
> 
> ... yet of as And....
> 
> ...tey fo sa dnA
> 
> Sorry.
> No matter what way I look at them, I can't associate any meaning with the four of them clumped together like that


 
Well...you're right: if you say them one after the other fast enough, you realize that you have no idea where and how in the world they ever combined together to produce a phrase that we all use and take for granted.

But I'm sure there are similar "quirkily idiomatic" expressions in English:  I've always been bemused by "as it was" and "as it were," which have completely different meanings.


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## panjandrum

Hmmm.
 I think my quirky dislike for "as of", is much less strong than my dislike for "as of yet"


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## rich7

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> "And yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means one thing.
> 
> "And as of yet, I haven't quit shooting heroin" means another.


 

So, as you mention these are two different things, what would you say is the meaning of each one?

so just you all know, I hear such expressions a lot in every day conversations and take into account that I do not speak English 24/7.


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## foxfirebrand

"And yet, I haven't stopped shooting heroin."

_And yet_ means "in spite of all that." 

"You know I'm allergic to dogs, and yet you never vacuum your car out? I'm changing carpools."

"I've heard a lot of bad stuff about heroin, _but in spite of that_ I haven't stopped shooting it."

"And as of yet, I haven't stopped shooting heroin."

_As of yet_ really means "up until this moment," in other words it means nothing. The present is by definition an "as of yet" thing, so all statements about the present include that idea. These mean the same thing:

"I haven't stopped shooting heroin."
"I haven't stopped shooting heroin yet."

Yes, the second one _seems_ to imply I may soon stop, but if you think that sentence means something different from the first, you haven't known many junkies.

There is a musicality in speech, and whether purists like it or not "she loves you yeah yeah yeah" sentences are not quite the same without the _yeah._ If introductory verbal grunts like _well_ and inane phrases like "when all is said and done" were simply wrong, English speech wouldn't be as larded with excess verbiage as a junkie's bloodstream is with endorphins. It must meet a need essential to the _use_ of language, no matter how little sense can be made of it in textbooks.

In answer to a simple "have you stopped shooting heroin" question, these mean the same:

"No."

"No, I haven't stopped, not since the last time I checked, anyway. Why do you ask? Have you got some heroin you don't know what to do with?"

Language is a medium, not an end in itself. Which of the two above sentences conveys more about the human condition?


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## panjandrum

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> "And yet, I haven't stopped shooting heroin."
> _And yet_ means "in spite of all that."
> Language is a medium, not an end in itself. Which of the two above sentences conveys more about the human condition?


Yes, I hear the wistful tones of the "And yet..."
And to be sure, my psychotic reaction to "and as of yet" has a lot to do with my already-recorded distate for "as of".
The purpose of language is communication.
Maybe I should say that again?
Oh go on, say it yourself


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## gaer

elroy said:
			
		

> Well...you're right: if you say them one after the other fast enough, you realize that you have no idea where and how in the world they ever combined together to produce a phrase that we all use and take for granted.
> 
> But I'm sure there are similar "quirkily idiomatic" expressions in English: I've always been bemused by "as it was" and "as it were," which have completely different meanings.


This should be a new thread, but I have NEVER understood what "as it were" means, at the end of a sentence. To me it always sounds like something extra, added, like a cough or a shrug of the shoulders. 

Gaer


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## rich7

There is a musicality in speech, and whether purists like it or not "she loves you yeah yeah yeah" sentences are not quite the same without the _yeah._ If introductory verbal grunts like _well_ and inane phrases like "when all is said and done" were simply wrong, English speech wouldn't be as larded with excess verbiage as a junkie's bloodstream is with endorphins. It must meet a need essential to the _use_ of language, no matter how little sense can be made of it in textbooks.

Im not quite sure what you meant by that...?


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## rich7

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Yes, I hear the wistful tones of the "And yet..."
> And to be sure, my psychotic reaction to "and as of yet" has a lot to do with my already-recorded distate for "as of".
> The purpose of language is communication.
> Maybe I should say that again?
> Oh go on, say it yourself


 
Distaste, right?


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## Kelly B

You could try "thus far," but it sounds a little pretentious in the heroin sentence. Of course "as of yet" strikes me as an unlikely phrase for a heroin addict, too. (Present company excluded, of course, if such an exception is warranted).


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## foxfirebrand

rich7 said:
			
		

> Im not quite sure what you meant by that...? (introductory verbal grunts like _well...)_


 
Sample "introductory verbal grunts" include:

"Well, ...[insert any sentence]"

"So anyway, ..."

"Actually, ..."

"In point of fact, ..."

"You know, ..."

"And at the end of the day when all is said and done, ..."

"Uh, ..."

"WOWF!  You _WOWFF!_  Oooh_WAAh_ huhhah...huh...huh...hah...[insert any sentence]"


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## elroy

foxfirebrand said:
			
		

> There is a musicality in speech, and whether purists like it or not "she loves you yeah yeah yeah" sentences are not quite the same without the _yeah._ If introductory verbal grunts like _well_ and inane phrases like "when all is said and done" were simply wrong, English speech wouldn't be as larded with excess verbiage as a junkie's bloodstream is with endorphins. It must meet a need essential to the _use_ of language, no matter how little sense can be made of it in textbooks.


 
Weren't you the one who was vehemently against _actually_?


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## elroy

gaer said:
			
		

> This should be a new thread, but I have NEVER understood what "as it were" means, at the end of a sentence. To me it always sounds like something extra, added, like a cough or a shrug of the shoulders.
> 
> Gaer


 
I think it means "if I can say so," "for lack of a better term," or something similar.

Feel free to start a new thread if you'd like.


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## foxfirebrand

elroy said:
			
		

> Weren't you the one who was vehemently against _actually_?


 
_Against_ "actually?"  I compared it to _uh,_ if I remember.  And made the same point about its superfluity as I did in the passage you just quoted, about "verbal grunts" and "inane phrases."

Yes, those words sound negative.  I love stupid humor but don't shy from calling it stupid.  I wouldn't fault anyone, hearing me call the Three Stooges stupid, for saying I was "against" them.  It makes sense, but the impression I create is more a product of my blunt style-- and what I think is a lack of worry about being scrupulously consistent.

That said, I guess I do prefer _uh_ to _actually_ in many, perhaps most, contexts.


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