# But it's just a half-baked idea



## High on grammar

Hello everyone:

Can I use the expression " half-baked idea" in the following sentence?

I want to go to England, but it's *just a half-baked idea*. 

Thanks.


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## souplady

"Half-baked" has a clearly negative connotation. It means the idea is foolish and poorly thought out. Unless that's what you're trying to say, I wouldn't use that word.


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## perpend

I don't see any negative connotation. It's just partially thought out.


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## Parla

I agree with Souplady. Calling an idea (normally someone else's, not your own) is a criticism, meaning it's not a good idea, it's not well thought out.

I think the word you want may be _tentative._

Check the dictionary for the meanings of these words.


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## velisarius

Definitely a negative connotation in BE too.

 If you come up with what you think is a good idea and tell it to your boss, don't get all excited when he tells you he thinks it's a half-baked idea. He doesn't mean "Great, go away and develop that idea more fully so that we can discuss it some more."


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## High on grammar

velisarius said:


> Definitely a negative connotation in BE too.
> 
> If you come up with what you think is a good idea and tell it to your boss, don't get all excited when he tells you he thinks it's a half-baked idea. He doesn't mean "Great, go away and develop that idea more fully so that we can discuss it some more."



Here's what Vocabulary.com says about* half-baked*

"If your plan for moving to Iceland is half-baked, it means you haven't thought the whole thing through*".*

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/half-baked


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## velisarius

You have selected one part of the definition - why? Right at the beginning it says:

"When something's half-baked, it's *just never going to work*"


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## High on grammar

velisarius said:


> You have selected one part of the definition - why? Right at the beginning it says:
> 
> "When something's half-baked, it's *just never going to work*"



It is a half-baked idea now.It's not going to work for now. But later I might want to take it into serious consideration, and turn it into a wholly baked idea.


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## velisarius

I refer you to the definition you yourself posted the link to: _An idea or plan, likewise, is half-baked if isn't worth wasting time on._


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## sdgraham

High on grammar said:


> It is a half-baked idea now.It's not going to work for now. But later I might want to take it into serious consideration, and turn it into a wholly baked idea.


Please believe the above advice, rather than arguing over it.

"Half-baked" carries the connotation of "stupid" in modern English.


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## velisarius

You can talk about a half-formed idea. 

_I want to go to England, but at the moment it's just a half-formed idea. Once I've got all the details planned, I'll let you know._


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## Packard

sdgraham said:


> Please believe the above advice, rather than arguing over it.
> 
> "Half-baked" carries the connotation of "stupid" in modern English.



I agree.  "Half-baked" means that if you thought this out to its logical conclusion you would see that the project would fail.


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## perpend

High on grammar wrote in the original post: I want to go to England, but it's just a half-baked idea.

I have to wonder why one would consider one's own idea negative. 

From WR, definition 2): _not planned or prepared well enough_
http://www.wordreference.com/definition/half-baked

Using that definition for High on grammar's sentence, I don't view it as negative. I consider it to mean that's not really planned out---I haven't really done the preparation needed to be able to go/move to England.

Just my thoughts, and I'm not even half-baked! 

In other words, I get that "half-baked" is often negative (except just above  (no I don't do that stuff)), but I don't see why in certain contexts that "half-baked" can't just mean what it is: not planned well enough.

That's just neutral or honest, to me.

EDIT: Another neutral example for me (made up): I have this half-baked notion to retire when I'm 60.


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## sdgraham

> I have to wonder why one would consider one's own idea negative.


It's rather obvious from the above posts that the OP didn't understand the way the the expression is used, i.e. the nearly unanimous opinion expressed above.


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## perpend

I would beg to differ that High on grammar might have realized that it's not black or white with "half-baked".


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## sdgraham

perpend said:


> I would beg to differ that High on grammar might have realized that it's not black or white with "half-baked".


It seems to be pretty clear to everybody else who responded, not to mention M-W
*half–baked*
_adjective_ \-ˈbākt\
: not well planned : foolish or stupid


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## High on grammar

Thank you all for your replies


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## perpend

On WordReference, in the first adjective definition, in second position, it says: _not planned or prepared well enough_

I quoted that in #13. (See above)

M-W mixes the two connotations in your quote, SDG.

WordReference actually breaks the definitions down well for the adjective. For certain contexts, it can't be considered negative.


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## perpend

High on grammar said:


> It is a half-baked idea now.It's not going to work for now. But later I might want to take it into serious consideration, and turn it into a wholly baked idea.



This is logical to me.


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## velisarius

I'd just like to warn non-natives that if they tell someone their idea is "half-baked", it will almost certainly be received as a very negative comment. Moreover we don't talk about "wholly-baked ideas" where I come from - we call them "well thought-out ideas".


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## perpend

I agree that "wholly-baked" ideas/notions/thoughts would be odd.

But the context is about "half-baked" ideas/notions/thoughts, and whether that automatically connotes something negative, in High on grammar's original post.

Do you read the original post and think the sentence means something negative, velisarius?


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## sdgraham

perpend said:


> Do you read the original post and think the sentence means something negative, velisarius?



You're still missing the point (perhaps intentionally) that in the original post, the OP obviously didn't know that "half-baked" is taken to mean "stupid" by native speakers (except for one) or he more than likely would not have used it.


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## High on grammar

Cambridge International Dictionary of English says: An idea or plan which is *half-baked *or (Br slang) *half-arsed* / (Am infml) *half-assed* is *stupid* OR *has not been considered carefully.*


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## sdgraham

High on grammar said:


> Cambridge International Dictionary of English says: An idea or plan which is *half-baked *or (Br slang) *half-arsed* / (Am infml) *half-assed* is *stupid* OR *has not been considered carefully.*


All of which is pejorative.


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## velisarius

So you think, Hog, that your listener is going to be able to discern that you are going for the "not considered carefully" definition. Good luck with that!


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## perpend

Everyone is ignoring WordReference's own #2 for the first adjective definition, which is not pejorative.


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## velisarius

You're just ignoring the example they give: _a half-baked proposal for tax reform_. Would you vote for politicians who come up with half-baked proposals? (I suppose a lot of people do, or we wouldn't be stuck with them.)


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## perpend

I think High on grammar has a legitimate query, but I'm going to start deleting my posts, since the flip-side is not being heard on this record, i.e., it's a one-sided deal as regards "half-baked". I'll send a PM to High on grammar, and I'll delete this post last.


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## velisarius

I think that's a half-baked idea perp, i.e. you haven't thought it through. Don't back out just because you lost.
High's query is perfectly legitimate of course.


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## perpend

I


velisarius said:


> I think that's a half-baked idea perp, i.e. you haven't thought it through. Don't back out just because you lost.
> High's query is perfectly legitimate of course.



There's no winning or losing. It's just trying to entertain a query about a phrase, that can be interpreted in more than one way.

I was just trying to help.


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## Andygc

Sorry, perp, I can see that you were trying to help, but I can't see how you can read any of the definitions of "half-baked" as anything but negative comments. You are being heard, but nobody agrees with you. The sentence in the OP "I want to go to England, but it's *just a half-baked idea*." can't, for me, mean anything other than it's a daft idea.


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## perpend

Right you are.


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## High on grammar

What led me to posting this thread in the first place was that I was looking for an expression for when someone talks about an idea but doesn’t necessarily have the intention of putting it into action.

I want to go to England, but.............
They are talking about divorce, but I think................


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## velisarius

I tried to give you a different expression in post #11. Someone else suggested "tentative idea".
_They are talking about divorce, but it's not definite. I'm thinking of going to England, but I have no definite plans yet._


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## High on grammar

velisarius said:


> I tried to give you a different expression in post #11. Someone else suggested "tentative idea".
> They are talking about divorce, but it's not definite. I'm thinking of going to England, but I have no definite plans yet.



Thanks


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## High on grammar

Thank you all


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## EStjarn

It's not difficult to find examples of "half-baked" meaning "not fully thought out" rather than "stupid", e.g.,

http://theplan.co.uk/tote-amazeballs-a-half-baked-idea-for-tomorrow/


> Ok, so I have a *half-baked idea* and you might be able to help before I actually throw it together.



http://reasonableapproximation.net/2015/01/16/keeping-code-and-docs-in-sync.html


> *A Half-Baked Idea for Keeping Code and Docs in Sync*
> 
> So here's my half-baked proposal that might help to solve some of the problem of keeping code in sync with documentation...



http://thedragonsflagon.blogspot.se/2015/07/a-half-baked-idea-for-high-level.html


> *A half-baked idea for high-level characters*
> 
> I don't have a lot of mental energy to devote to RPGs right now, so I'm presenting this as a bare-bones idea. If anyone wants to take it and flesh it out, modify it, or fold, spindle, and mutilate it into something else, feel absolutely free to do so.


Note "bare-bones" above, which might work as a substitute in case you feel "half-baked" is too controversial: _I want to go to England, but it's just a bare-bones idea at this point._


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## sdgraham

Hi EJ,
I see your examples as being self-deprecating and as such, consistent with the nature of the expression the vast majority of us have been trying to get across.

WordReference Random House Unabridged Dictionary of American English © 2015
*self-dep•re•cat•ing (self′dep′ri kā′ting, self′-),* 
adj. 

belittling or undervaluing oneself;
excessively modest.
Collins Concise English Dictionary © HarperCollins Publishers::

*self-deprecating*, *self-depreciating *adj

having a tendency to disparage oneself


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## EStjarn

Hello sdg,

When I consider their contexts, I cannot see that "half-baked" turns the sentences into self-deprecating remarks. For that, I would have to ignore the context.

I'd say in all three cases "half-baked" is used to indicate that the idea is in an unfinished state.

To me, then, either the examples are based on a misunderstanding of the proper use of "half-baked" or they simply represent a use that is not widely recognized.

I tend to agree with perpend in post #3 and consequently find them unremarkable. But I admit having failed in my search for a dictionary that would support this view.


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## sound shift

EStjarn said:


> I'd say in all three cases "half-baked" is used to indicate that the idea is in an unfinished state.
> 
> To me, then, either the examples are based on a misunderstanding of the proper use of "half-baked" or they simply represent a use that is not widely recognized.
> 
> I tend to agree with perpend in post #3 and consequently find them unremarkable.


I find them unusual, as I don't recall previously seeing "half-baked" used to mean simply "unfinished".


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## velisarius

Even if we accept those examples, and I see no reason why not to, the fact remains that they aren't representative of how most people read the phrase. It's risky to use a phrase that could easily be taken to mean something negative or pejorative, even when talking about oneself. 

At best I read those examples as amusingly literal uses of the phrase. If they are not meant to amuse, they are wrong uses of the phrase - in my opinion.


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