# la haine qui sort des yeux



## lilybetty

Hi ! I would like to translate "La haine qui sort des yeux". I cannot seem to find a translation for "sortir des yeux", but I suggest, something too literal maybe : "The hatred that was coming out of his eyes". 

Is it correct ?


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## SwissPete

A literal translation will not work.
On the other hand "You are dripping with hate" might.


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## plantin

He's sweating with hate ? 
Burntlooking eyes, shining with hate ?


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## archijacq

the hatred oozing from his/her/their eyes


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## OLN

His gaze full of hatred...

Qu'est-ce qui suit "La haine qui sort des (de ses ?) yeux" ? La question est de savoir s'il faut commencer la phrase par le sujet "The hatred".


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## L'irlandais

One mustn’t be so literal.  His gaze full of hatred...  is an excellent suggestion.
The other suggestions will just leave the reader perplexed, since they sound very unEnglish.


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## plantin

L'irlandais said:


> sound very unEnglish.


Really ?
"sweating with hate" - Google Search
"dripping with hate" - Google Search
"shining with hate" - Google Search
" hatred oozing from his eyes" - Google Search


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## LART01

archijacq said:


> the hatred oozing from his/her/their eyes




Or..His eyes oozing hate ( as in _Never by Blood_ from Noel Caroll)


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## Itisi

L'irlandais said:


> One mustn’t be so literal.  His gaze full of hatred...  is an excellent suggestion.
> The other suggestions will just leave the reader perplexed, since they sound very unEnglish.


I agree.  The other suggestions sound over-the-top compared to the French.


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## moustic

I agree with L'Irlandais too. I'm not too keen on "sweating, dripping, shining or oozing" associated with hate/hatred.
"He looked at me, his eyes filled with hatred / full of hate" or something similar.


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## plantin

"L'irlandais" said:
			
		

> The other suggestions will just leave the reader perplexed, since they sound very unEnglish.





			
				Itisi said:
			
		

> I agree. The other suggestions sound over-the-top compared to the French.


Over-the-top and unEnglish are two different things, don't you think ?

*A Lilybetty:* On peut interpréter "la haine qui sort des yeux" de façon plus ou moins intense selon le contexte: "la haine qui se voit dans les yeux" ou "des yeux luisant(s), étincelant(s), brillant(s) de haine" par exemple indiquent des degrés différents. Je pencherais pour la seconde s'il s'agit comme je le pense des yeux de ces ouvriers en grève.
_". La haine qui sort des yeux de ces ouvriers qui s'estiment lésés, volés, voire violés par le « système » n'a pas pu vous échapper. Et pourtant, ces gens s'estiment « juste » sous-payés. Ils ne manifestent pas ..."_
A vous de confirmer s'il s'agit de cet extrait.


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## tartopom

Il ne fait pas qu'avoir un regard plein de haine / his gaze full of hatred, mais la haine qui sort des yeux, comme si elle débordait, nous mitraillait / death stare "full of hatred".


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## Itisi

plantin said:


> Over-the-top and unEnglish are two different things, don't you think ?
> .


They are, indeed!  I agreed with what 'L'Irlandais is saying, then I started another sentence adding a comment of my own.  Perhaps you didn't see the full stop...

As for your comment to *Lilybetty* about interpreting, which I took the liberty of reading, I think it is enough to just translate what is written, which is _not _'les yeux brillants, étincelants de haine'.  That would indeed require a different translation...

PS - But _a whole sentence_ from* lilybetty* would be a good thing, as always...


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## plantin

But is it really "unEnglish" ? I need to be reassured that Dorothy Eden, Robert Howard, Steven Randall (a translator), Adele Brown, Mark  Dawson, Lexi Davis and many others, really wrote in good English or not.


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## Kelly B

Depending on what surrounds it, _the hatred in his eyes _may suffice.


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## OLN

En français aussi, _la haine [qu'on lit] dans ses yeux _peut suffire. Pour insister, on peut dire _la haine intense. _

Dire qu'elle lui sort (de la tête ?) par les yeux ou qu'elle lui sort des yeux comme un rayon laser des yeux d'un robot tient plutôt du comique. Serait-ce voulu ?


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## plantin

Non, je ne pense pas que "sortir des yeux" soit pris au sens propre de "déborder par les yeux", bien sûr (quoique "ses yeux débordaient de haine" soit quasiment idiomatique en français, et se rencontre aussi en anglais semble-t-il, ce qui serait pour le coup ici un peu exagéré, mais je n'ose plus m'avancer de peur du "unEnglish" !); par contre je ne vois pas en quoi "des yeux brillants de haine" (shining with hate) serait exagéré, je trouve même au contraire que "yeux brillants de haine" est moins fort que "haine qui sort des yeux", mais peut-être les Anglais ont-ils une sensibilité visuelle différente ...


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## L'irlandais

When translating it is best to do so from one’s second language into one’s mother tongue.  The other Englishspeakers understood what I was getting at.  The OP is struggling with « sortir des yeux », which while a common expression in French, has to be rendered differently in English to respect the original meaning.

At least one of the books you linked with « eyes overflowing with hate » is poetic, and not common usage of those words.  It is a translation of _Cantari di Penelope e di Gilgamesh.  Would _Armando Pajalich approve?  Likely he might say *Traduire*, *c'est trahir.*


> Eyes itching to kill the one who ...


Are you sure these authors are all English?  In your #14 for example you propose Mapuche by Caryl Férey, which has been translated from French.  Perhaps  penguin translators don’t take as much care about their work, as they should.

Some word pairings are usual, other not so usual.
Eyes - WordReference.com Dictionary of English
hate - WordReference.com Dictionary of English
Hate coming out of one’s eye is not all that usual in English.  Except if you use google, to confirm such translations.  We do say jealousy is a green-eyed monster in English.  For the most part « things » tend to be in the eyes, rather than coming out of English eyes.



> In your eyes a shimmering light.
> I could see the fear in her eyes burning bright like two hot coals.
> her blue eyes burning bright...


Your milage may vary.


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## plantin

L'irlandais said:


> « sortir des yeux », which while a common expression in French,


Not at all. "la haine qui sort des yeux" sounds odd in french, I never heard something like that before. About this point, I think we're equal. What do my french fellows think about it ?



> Are you sure these authors are all English?


Davis and Howard are American.



> « sortir des yeux »has to be rendered differently in English to respect the original meaning.


No one tried to translate literally in this thread; that is why it's difficult.



> When translating it is best to do so from one’s second language into one’s mother tongue. The other Englishspeakers understood what I was getting at


Of course, I get that, it's the same from english to french; but what does "eyes shining with hate" mean for an english speaker and how to translate it in French if not "les yeux brillants de haine" ? Something stronger ? Something else ?


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## L'irlandais

[...] That the expression in the OP is uncommon, fine; I accept your word for it.  However Sortir par les yeux : signification et origine de lexpression things « coming out of people’s eyes » does appear to be used in the french language.

Have you read either of these American authors?
Fiction Book Review: Pretty Evil by Lexi Davis, Author .  Pocket Books $14 (368p) ISBN 978-1-4165-0525-9
Lexi Davis hasn’t had great reviews:


> ...A nonsensical plot and eye-roll–inducing preaching make this a dull and sludgy read.


Robert Ervin Howard was an American author who wrote *pulp* fiction.  It is called « pulp » fiction for a reason.  I do have the feeling you randomly found them on google, to prove your point.

Anyhow, if lilybetty is a translator, then she has probaly already moved on.
 The suggestion in #05 was adequate « His gaze full of hatred... »


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## plantin

L'irlandais said:


> I have the feeling you randomly found them on google, to prove your point.


That's not a feeling, of course, I didn't know these writers before.... In most cases, I think nobody here knows all the ones they quote. I was searching examples, not trying to prove something. And about the other four ?



> However Sortir par les yeux : signification et origine de lexpression things « coming out of people’s eyes » does appear to be used in the french language.


[...]
This expression has *absolutely *nothing to do with "La haine qui sort des yeux" in the meaning:

_Ne plus pouvoir être supporté par quelqu'un.

La haine qui ne peut plus être supportée par eux ??? _


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## L'irlandais

The 4 I looked at in #18 and #20 were poor examples, I shan’t waste more time evaluating randomly chosen examples.
If Lilybetty was happy with googled examples she would not be posting her questions on WR.  Native speakers can be wrong, certainly.  Your Davis and Howard are proof positive of that.  But as a general rule it is foolish to question a gut feeeling of somebody who has grown up speaking a language.  Especially if other native speakers agree with the sentiment.


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## plantin

Obviously, I respect native speakers' opinion, especially as I know that my english is rather bad (but actually, you don't help me to improve it ). I would like somebody explains clearly (and politely) why I'm wrong. I didn't know yet what english speakers understand when they read these  solutions, except there are "unEnglish" ( ? Evidence is that, good or not, writers in english used it) or "over-the-top" (but how ?) or it doesn't work... i don't expect a translation, just explain in english what that means (even though some english WR members here speak and write french perfectly).


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## L'irlandais

If I have been impolite, I apologise.  You do seem to have ignored much of my explanations.





L'irlandais said:


> ... For the most part « things » tend to be in the eyes, rather than coming out of English eyes...


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## plantin

L'irlandais said:


> You do seem to have ignored much of my explanations.
> things » tend to be in the eyes, rather than coming out of English eyes


No, I saw that. "out" is indeed implied in the french expression, but does "with" (eyes shining with hate) convey the same meaning (out) in english ?


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## pointvirgule

J'ai supprimé cette suggestion précédemment, mais il faut que je sache : est-ce que _eyes beaming with hatred_ pourrait convenir ?


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## L'irlandais

Beaming, it seems, tends to be used with positive traits - Examples for “eyes beaming” and how to use it - Nyanglish


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## pointvirgule

L'irlandais said:


> Beaming, it seems, tends to be used with positive traits


Thanks. I suspected that; too bad, though.


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## tartopom

L'irlandais said:


> However Sortir par les yeux : signification et origine de lexpression things « coming out of people’s eyes » does appear to be used in the french language.



sortir par les yeux et sortir des yeux are  2 things totally different.


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## wildan1

_Ooze _usually is connected with something liquid--_oozing puss, _for example. _Sweating_ and _dripping_, likewise. 

To me hate is dry, perhaps burning, but does not have a liquid quality -- at least in my English-speaker's mind.

How about keeping it simple--_his hate-filled eyes._


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## L'irlandais

tartopom said:


> Il ne fait pas qu'avoir un regard plein de haine / his gaze full of hatred, mais la haine qui sort des yeux, comme si elle débordait, nous mitraillait / death stare "full of hatred".


What works in french, does not necessarily work in English.  Repeatedly, English native speakers have suggested adequate translations, for what appears, to also be an uncommon usage in French.  This insistence to dismiss the view of native speakers is a bit tiresome.


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## Itisi

(All this heat, and we don't even have a full sentence to go by!)



plantin said:


> does "with" (eyes shining with hate) convey the same meaning (out) in english ?


I see what you are getting at, but it doesn't really work..


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## Soleil_Couchant

This thread is oozing with hate, lol. I've never heard "sweating" in this context personally. And wildan1, while you're right that dripping and oozing and usually denote liquids, I feel like I've heard that used with hatred before. For example, "the hatred was oozing out of his pores" sounds natural/familiar to me.

Anyway, what about "the hatred burning/blazing in his eyes" ... Or even "emanating from" or "radiating from" could work (i.e., the hatred radiating from his eyes)...possibly... I agree that a full sentence might help.


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## wildan1

Oozing out of pores, yes, but not the eyes. 

I still think a too-literal translation is not very useful.


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## Nicomon

Itisi said:


> (All this heat, and we don't even have a full sentence to go by!)


  I googled (with the quotation marks) "la haine qui sort des yeux" and it only returned *3 results* including this thread.
lilybetty never confirmed, but it seems to me that the sentence plantin provided in post #11 could indeed be "it".

_La haine qui sort des yeux_ _de ces ouvriers qui s'estiment lésés, volés, voire violés par le « système » n'a pas pu vous échapper._


L'irlandais said:


> When translating it is best to do so from one’s second language into one’s mother tongue.


 I agree entirely, in an ideal world. I for one don't like to translate from French to English, as I don't feel confident. But many companies won't hire a second translator if most needs are the other way round (English to French). So, there are days when you need to translate from your mother tongue to second language, and then count on fluently bilingual English natives to correct your "Frenglish" afterwards. 

I understand from the original (but don't know if it's the right one) that the hatred in those workers' eyes was obvious/couldn't be missed or go unnoticed.
That kind of "gaze full of hatred" makes me think of (link to image) If eyes could kill 

Seeing (no pun intended) that _eyes beaming_ _with hatred _doesn't work, would there be a good negative to replace _beaming_?
If there isn't any, then I agree that it's better to write something that sounds English and change  « _qui sort des yeux _» to something that means :
_(qui se lit) dans les yeux_ _/ le regard de X_.


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## Soleil_Couchant

I suggested radiating (from) and burning (with).

(and also, it's "if looks could kill" not "eyes." maybe a typo...)


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## Nicomon

I actually heard both and linked to the first image from this search, but you're right.The idiomatic expression indeed is : _If looks could kill_. 

And sorry, I misread your suggestions. In my mind, _radiating_ is just as positive as _beaming_. As in : _eyes radiating with love/happiness.   _
I'm ready to buy  _the hatred burning in/radiating from his (her/their) eyes _as you suggested, but then you added ... possibly... as if not sure.

What do other natives or experienced French to English translators think, assuming that the sentence I quoted in blue is the actual one?


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## L'irlandais

Hi Nicolom,
Thanks for your efforts.  How about, 





> The look of hatred in the eyes of these workers who feel wronged, robbed, violated even by the "system" could not escape you.


[...]


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## L'irlandais

The examples linked in my #27 were all pertinent.


> Still, it was some comfort to hear her voice and see her eyes beaming kindly on him.
> Cited from Blue Lights, by R.M. Ballantyne


They allow the OP to see eminent writers have used the expression in this way.  [...] Poetry is already a juxtaposition of words in the sources language, alluding to vague associations, toying at meaning, playing on words.  Incredibly difficult to keep the whole meaning with a word for word translation to target language.


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## lilybetty

L'irlandais said:


> One mustn’t be so literal.  His gaze full of hatred...  is an excellent suggestion.
> The other suggestions will just leave the reader perplexed, since they sound very unEnglish.


Thank you very much, I appreciate it


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## L'irlandais

Hi lilybetty,
Can you confirm if Nicomon is correct in #35 assuming this is the source of your text?


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## Soleil_Couchant

Nicomon, for what it's worth, I've definitely heard of people "radiating" with hatred. Radiating could be good or bad depending on the context. Whereas beaming is always positive.  And eyes burning with hatred is extremely common.  And I often say things like "possibly" to not pretend I'm the be-all end-all on this forum because many people have useful things to contribute, much of this is gray area, and I'm usually not 100% sure (though there are those rare cases when I am).

I honestly don't understand the vigor and adamance of some of the anglophones on this thread (against using anything more creative than "eyes filled with hatred.")


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## Itisi

To me, 'radiating with hatred' is like a contradiction in terms, as I can only conceive of 'radiating with love'.  Sorry to be so unimaginative!  

I can't help it, I find some of the other translation suggestions distasteful rather than creative in relation to the French phrase we are discussing.


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## Nicomon

L'irlandais said:


> Hi Nicolom,
> Thanks for your efforts. How about,
> 
> _The look of hatred in the eyes of these workers who feel wronged, robbed, violated even by the "system" could not escape you._


 Hi L'irlandais,

If the sentence plantin (#11) and I quoted is indeed what lilybetty is translating, your adapt' sounds very good to my non native ears.

You can call me Nico, but I think I'll ask the mods to change my pseudo. I kind of like the ring of Nicolom.


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## ForeverHis

Hello everyone Here's my two cents' worth:



L'irlandais said:


> One mustn’t be so literal. His gaze full of hatred... is an excellent suggestion.
> The other suggestions will just leave the reader perplexed, since they sound very unEnglish.







wildan1 said:


> _Ooze _usually is connected with something liquid--_oozing puss, _for example. _Sweating_ and _dripping_, likewise.
> 
> To me hate is dry, perhaps burning, but does not have a liquid quality -- at least in my English-speaker's mind.
> 
> How about keeping it simple--_his hate-filled eyes._







Soleil_Couchant said:


> Anyway, what about "the hatred burning/blazing in his eyes" ... Or even "emanating from" or "radiating from" could work (i.e., the hatred radiating from his eyes)




My first thought, was  "the hatred emanating from his eyes". Plantin, "shining with hate/hatred" might work too. But it really depends on the context.


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## Nicomon

I wish lilybetty weren't so relunctant to give a larger context, with a complete sentence. 
I'm starting to have second thoughts as to whether or not the one we quoted (resulting from a search on the thread title) is really the right one.

Only now realizing that her initial attempt was :    "... _coming out of *his* eyes_", I'm not so sure anymore.
If this is about a single man, then apart from "_his gaze filled with hatred_" and _"look of hatred in his eyes"_ I also like moustic's suggestions (#10). 





Itisi said:


> To me, 'radiating with hatred' is like a contradiction in terms, as I can only conceive of 'radiating with love'. Sorry to be so unimaginative!


  I have the same conception. So I guess that makes me just as unimaginative as you.


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## Soleil_Couchant

It's not a contradiction, though, as radiating is also used for negative things, like hatred... I also saw an example "radiating racism," etc. "Radiation" can have negative context in itself ..radiating is like a strong force of energy/heat being emitted. So, it depends on the context of how it's used. Radiating love or radiating hate...you're emitting that emotion very intensely.

Edit: And, just a nuance, the word "radiant" has only a positive connotation, for whatever reason. Like beaming. That's just how it is. So if someone was to say someone was "radiant with hatred," then I can understand it seeming weird.


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