# pain in the ass / arse



## dec-sev

> I considered "disgrace" too, but in my opinion it doesn't carry the
> physical pain you're suffering, which is implied within "Zumutung".
> 
> If *something* is a "Zumutung" you're truely suffering by
> that particular *something*.
> 
> There is a wellknown English idiom, which I use pretty often to express
> my disgust: This is just a pain in the ass. I guess that particular idiom is way
> too colloquial. But I think it is close to that, what Cincimatti is looking for.


 

http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=606507&highlight=Zumutung

Hallo Voxy.
Das ist dein Zitat aus dem Thread „Zumutung“. Ich habe die Phrase in meinem Wörterbuch nachgesehen und das folgende Beispeil gefunden.

He thinks he has suck but he's just a pain in the ass.

Ins Russische wurde „pain in the ass“ in diesem Fall als мудак (das Russische für Arschloch) übersetzt. 

Wie ich sehe, die hat Wendung verschiedene Konnotationen. Du sagst, dass du sie oft verwendest. Könntest du mir ein paar Situationen beschrieben, denen die Wendung passen würde. Sagst du sie auf Englisch oder Deutsch? Mir scheint das deutsche „Zumutung“ etwar „leichter“ zu sein. Oder?


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## ewie

Good morning, German folks

(Firstly: I apologize if I seem to be 'hijacking' this thread.  I've no idea what Dec's question's about as my German isn't good enough  I just saw the title and decided to add my question here instead of opening a new thread).

It's actually various questions about _pain in the arse_.

(1) Am I right in thinking that the German equivalent is _Arschloch_?

(2) If you came across _Arschschmerz_, would it: (a) look utterly wrong and stupid? (b) mean literally 'sore buttocks'? (c) look like a pseudo-German version of English _pain in the arse_?; (d) something else

(3) One last _really_ stupid question and then I'll go away.  Imagine _Schmerz_ was the name of a town which stood on the River _Arsch_.  How would you express that in German?  (I'm thinking of places like Frankfurt-an-der-Oder ... _Schmerz-an-der-Arsch_?)

oSorry, on the rare occasions I visit the German Forum my questions are always really daft ...)


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## Lykurg

ewie said:


> [...] _pain in the arse_.
> (1) Am I right in thinking that the German equivalent is _Arschloch_?


No, not for this idiom. "Arschloch" is an insult (quite strong, though of course depending on the context), but nobody would associate "Zumutung" with it, e.g., you cannot use it for a situation or thing. 


> (2) If you came across _Arschschmerz_, would it: (a) look utterly wrong and stupid? (b) mean literally 'sore buttocks'? (c) look like a pseudo-German version of English _pain in the arse_?; (d) something else


a) with a tendency of b; 
c if you know it comes from an English speaking person.


> (3) One last _really_ stupid question and then I'll go away.  Imagine _Schmerz_ was the name of a town which stood on the River _Arsch_.  How would you express that in German?  (I'm thinking of places like Frankfurt-an-der-Oder ... _Schmerz-an-der-Arsch_?


Literally "Schmerz-am-Arsch"*, but it doesn't work so well since "am Arsch" has different connotations in German:
In colloquial geography  you use "am Arsch der Welt" for "at the back of beyond" (isn't there even an "arse-end of the world"?), so you would rather think that such a place would be difficult to reach and that nothing happens there than that it is a nuisance.

_____
*(or "Schmerzen-am-Arsch", which somehow sounds more like a name. Mind  that normally you do not use the hyphens in German place names!)


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## ewie

Thanks, Lykurg, for clearing up a lot of idiocies, largely caused by my not reading Dec's post very well

So: _Arschloch_ is *literally *'arsehole' and is used *figuratively* with the same sense as in English.

So how would you say in German: _*He*'s a real pain in the arse_ ... i.e. a nuisance, an irritating person.




Lykurg said:


> Literally "Schmerz-am-Arsch"*, but it doesn't work so well since "am Arsch" has different connotations in German:
> In colloquial geography  you use "am Arsch der Welt" for "at the back of beyond" (isn't there even an "arse-end of the world"?), so you would rather think that such a place would be difficult to reach and that nothing happens there than that it is a nuisance.
> 
> _____
> *(or "Schmerzen-am-Arsch", which somehow sounds more like a name. Mind that normally you do not use the hyphens in German place names!)


That's absolutely perfect: if _Schmerzen-am-Arsch*_ *sounds like* _the back end of nowhere, the arsehole of the universe _(etc.), that's an added bonus.  (The thing I'm writing is all about places like that).
*I'll have to keep the hyphens, though, as that's what English readers are used to.

I forgot to ask earlier: How would you rate _Arsch_ as a swearword on a scale of 1-10, where '1' = "No-one would even notice" and '10' = "Ladies would faint on hearing it"?  (I realize this is rather a subjective business.)

Last technical question: why is it _am Arsch_ (or _am Main_ to use a sensible example) but _an der Oder_? ~ do German rivers have variable gender?


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## Frank78

ewie said:


> I forgot to ask earlier: How would you rate _Arsch_ as a swearword on a scale of 1-10, where '1' = "No-one would even notice" and '10' = "Ladies would faint on hearing it"?  (I realize this is rather a subjective business.)



It's not a harsh swearword in contrast to Arschloch (asshole). Arsch is somewhere in the middle. I would give it 5 points. It's often used among females to describe impolite or pushy men or ex-husbands. 
It would not work vice versa to describe women because it's "der Arsch" (male grammatical gender).



ewie said:


> Last technical question: why is it _am Arsch_ (or _am Main_ to use a sensible example) but _an der Oder_? ~ do German rivers have variable gender?



Yes, they have. It's "die Oder", "die Elbe", "der Main", "die Themse", "die Seine", "der Po" (not your butt but the river in Italy  )


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## ewie

Thanks, Frank.  (For anyone who's interested, I'd rate English _arse_ as about a 6: "safe to use in front of your mum or your auntie, but probably not your granny")


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## Caroline35

Frank78 said:


> It's not a harsh swearword in contrast to Arschloch (asshole). Arsch is somewhere in the middle. I would give it 5 points. It's often used among females to describe impolite or pushy men or ex-husbands.
> It would not work vice versa to describe women because it's "der Arsch" (male grammatical gender).
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, they have. It's "die Oder", "die Elbe", "der Main", "die Themse", "die Seine", "der Po" (not your butt but the river in Italy  )


 
You must have in the German language a slang for an unbearable person( ein unertraeglicher Mensch). I think " a pain in the ass" is a typical English idiomatic expression." You can't translate it in German in the same way by using Arsch or Arse as its equivalent.


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## Frank78

I think it depends on the context in German.

"Nervensäge" would be one - someone who constantly bothers others.


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## Caroline35

Frank78 said:


> I think it depends on the context in German.
> 
> "Nervensäge" would be one - someone who constantly bothers others.


 
Vielen Dank, mein Freund, es ist was ich wollte. Es ist die richtige Antwort.
Nervensaege is das richtige Wort. Pain in the Ass= Nervensaege.


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## ewie

I like it: someone who saws at your nerves


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## sokol

ewie said:


> I like it: someone who saws at your nerves


Yes indeed, that's the meaning. 

Concerning "best possible" translation of "pain in the arse" however I would use the following, which is specifically Austrian German:

"am Arsch gehen":
- Der geht mir echt am Arsch! (= Der geht mir echt auf den Arsch! - Austrian "am" = here "auf den" = literally "He's going me really on the arse!", which in fact indeed means "he's really a pain in the ass/arse".)
- Die geht mir echt am Arsch! (feminine)
- Das geht mir echt am Arsch! (neuter)

Note: "am Arsch gehen" may be mildly offensive, but it is also possible using this in a not unfriendly and joking way (with close friends of course, and in appropriate context, else chances are that you're misunderstood). I think English "pain in the arse" is more rude.

The "German" version of "auf den Arsch gehen" probably wouldn't work, and possibly no parallel construction is used in Germany: so this might not work outside of Austria (or rather only in Southern Germany but not farther north).


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## ewie

I can imagine myself having a nasty slip-of-the-tongue while using that one, Sokmeister, and saying something a tad inappropriate

I reckon the rudeness of _pain in the arse_ very largely depends on the tone of voice it's delivered in

(By the way, has anyone answered Dec-sev's original question yet?)


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## sokol

ewie said:


> I reckon the rudeness of _pain in the arse_ very largely depends on the tone of voice it's delivered in


Same's also true for all German equivalents. 



ewie said:


> (By the way, has anyone answered Dec-sev's original question yet?)


I tried to, but my suggestion isn't valuable beyond the Austrian borders - so I'd say, adequately answered so far - no.

Dec-sev, you might be able to make use of the Austrian version as you've got some Austrian contacts, but please be VERY careful indeed to use that one at all (but you know that, one never can be too careful with phrases like that ones.)


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## dec-sev

ewie said:


> I've no idea what Dec's question's about as my German isn't good enough


I haven't improved my German since then either


ewie said:


> (By the way, has anyone answered Dec-sev's original question yet?)


No, may be because I was rooting for Spain, not for Germany  
Now that nearly three years have passed since I made the post I can't find the source that translated me „pain in the ass“  as Arschloch.
If I understand "pain in the ass" correctly it's about a person who has got bored you to death. You're sick and tired of him. Am I on the right track?
A joke:
Woman: you remind me of an ocean.
Man: really? Do you mean I'm so unrestrained, potent and powerful? 
Woman: No, you make me sick.

If I'm on the right track and "pain in the ass" is synonymous to a person who gets you bored than  "Nervensäge" won't do, I guess.


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## mirifica

Bonjour,

to be a pain in the ass : faire chier


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## калина

dec-sev said:


> If I understand "pain in the ass" correctly it's about a person who has got bored you to death. You're sick and tired of him. Am I on the right track?



Not so much bored, more annoyed. Someone you can't stand to be around because they bother you so much.


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## ewie

калина said:


> Not so much bored, more annoyed. Someone you can't stand to be around because they bother you so much.




Someone who bores you is just ... well, _a bore_.


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## dec-sev

калина said:


> Not so much bored, more annoyed. Someone you can't stand to be around because they bother you so much.


I don't know if you nick in Russian accidental or you know my native language. 
In Russian we have a word _задолбать_. It's a slang word for "to annoy". My dictionary translates it as "2) (сильно надоесть кому-л) drive (d) up the wall". 
My question is:
1. Is "to drive somebody up the wall" the same as "to annoy somebody"?
2. I guess that there is a difference between a person who gets on your nevrves and the one who really annoys you. If "pain in the ass" is about the former, how would you express the latter in German? I need something slangy so that I could say it to a person who really annoys me 
@ewie: Thank you for reanimating the thread!


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## Sowka

Hello 

_Nervensäge_ is really the best term that I can come up with in this context. I don't know any other nouns used for such people. Woxicon suggests several synonyms (for instance _Quälgeist_, _Quengler_), but I wouldn'd use any of them.

If someone really drove me up the wall, I'd probably rather describe him in a sentence, for instance:

_Der geht mir total auf die Nerven!_
_Der geht mir voll auf den Geist!_
_Der geht mir ja sowas von auf den Keks!_ (these two are grammatical catastrophies, but I like them )
Men could also say: _Der geht mir total auf den Sack / auf die Eier!_


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## berndf

sokol said:


> The "German" version of "auf den Arsch gehen" probably wouldn't work, and possibly no parallel construction is used in Germany: so this might not work outside of Austria (or rather only in Southern Germany but not farther north).


It does. "Das geht mir auf'n Arsch" is understood and used all over Germany. But, like in your examples from Austria, the phrase is used for *things* which annoy you, not to much for *people*.

Gammar note: Austrian "am Arsch" is really the same as German "auf den Arsch". In Germany, "am" is a contraction of "an+dem" and in Austria it is a contraction of "auf+dem". Since Austrians don't care about the difference between dative and accusative, "am" can also mean "auf den".


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## sokol

berndf said:


> It does. "Das geht mir auf'n Arsch" is understood and used all over Germany. But, like in your examples from Austria, the phrase is used for *things* which annoy you, not to much for *people*.


Well, that's a) interesting, but b) yes, we do use it for people also: "der Trottel geht mir voll am (= auf'n) Arsch!" - this refers to a male person and not an action of this person (well, the action too, but basically the person is meant).


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## berndf

sokol said:


> Well, that's a) interesting, but b) yes, we do use it for people also: "der Trottel geht mir voll am (= auf'n) Arsch!" - this refers to a male person and not an action of this person (well, the action too, but basically the person is meant).


I didn't mean it can't be used with people. I meant the predominant use is with things. This contrasts with "pain in the arse" which is only used for people.


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## sokol

berndf said:


> I didn't mean it can't be used with people. I meant the predominant use is with things. This contrasts with "pain in the arse" which is only used for people.


Ah yes, in contrast with the English phrase I'm finally understanding what you meant.


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## ewie

Sowka said:


> _Der geht mir ja sowas von auf den Keks!_


Oh _Keks_!  What does this mean literally, Sowki?  (Not _Keks_ ~ I know that's 'biscuit' because I just looked it up)  Is it anything like _That really takes the biscuit_?



berndf said:


> This contrasts with "pain in the arse" which is only used for people.


I wouldn't be quite as categorical as that, Bernd ~ it's certainly possible to use it with things:
_Having to get up at 5 every morning's a real pain in the arse.
It was a right pain in the arse trying to get through Customs.

_


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## Sowka

ewie said:


> Oh _Keks_!  What does this mean literally, Sowki?  (Not _Keks_ ~ I know that's 'biscuit' because I just looked it up)  Is it anything like _That really takes the biscuit_?



I'm not sure, Ewieliño -- I think that it's just a kind of joke about the word _Geist_ (mind) which appears in the other version "Er geht mir total auf den Geist!".

I'm trying to find evidence


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## berndf

ewie said:


> Oh _Keks_!  What does this mean literally, Sowki?  (Not _Keks_ ~ I know that's 'biscuit' because I just looked it up)  Is it anything like _That really takes the biscuit_?


_Keks_ (which is actually a late 19th century assimilation of the English word _cakes_) is one of the many colloquial words for_ head_ or _brain_. There are expressions like _einen am Keks haben (to have something at the biscuit) _or_ einen weichen Keks haben (to have a soft biscuit)_ both meaning _being crazy_ or _being stupid_. 



ewie said:


> I wouldn't be quite as categorical as that, Bernd ~ it's certainly possible to use it with things:
> _Having to get up at 5 every morning's a real pain in the arse.
> It was a right pain in the arse trying to get through Customs.
> 
> _


True, that was too categorical; but these uses are comparatively rare, aren't they?


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## ewie

berndf said:


> _Keks_ (which is actually a late 19th century assimilation of the English word _cakes_) is one of the many colloquial words for_ head_ or _brain_. There are expressions like _einen am Keks haben (to have something at the biscuit) _or_ einen weichen Keks haben (to have a soft biscuit)_ both meaning _being crazy_ or _being stupid_.
> 
> True, that was too categorical; but these uses are comparatively rare, aren't they?


(1) Ah I see ~ a bit like English _nut_ = 'head', then ... I've just thought: _gingernut_ ('person with ginger hair') is also a type of biscuit.  (I like finding these somewhat dubious parallels and connexions between languages, and as I often say in the English forum, "Folk etymology is a _lot_ more fun than Serious Etymology")
So _Er geht mir total auf den Keks_ would be something like _He totally gets on my nut _then?

(2) Comparatively rare, yes, but far from unheard-of

Oh, I just thought of something else ... _pain in the arse_ is curiously unpluralizable.


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## Frank78

berndf said:


> It does. &quot;Das geht mir auf'n Arsch&quot; is understood and used all over Germany. But, like in your examples from Austria, the phrase is used for *things* which annoy you, not to much for *people*.



 Really? Ok I would understand it but never use it.  I'd rather say "Er/Sie/es geht mir auf den Keks/auf den Sack".  The latter is rather coarsely. Acutally I'm not really sure which "Sack " is meant in this idiom.


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## berndf

Frank78 said:


> Really? Ok I would understand it but never use it. I'd rather say "Er/Sie/es geht mir auf den Keks/auf den Sack".


Maybe you are right. It is understood but not really used actively.





Frank78 said:


> The latter is rather coarsely. Acutally I'm not really sure which "Sack " is meant in this idiom.


Really? I thought this was clear.


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## dec-sev

sokol said:


> Dec-sev, you might be able to make use of the Austrian version as you've got some Austrian contacts, but please be VERY careful indeed to use that one at all (but you know that, one never can be too careful with phrases like that ones.)


Thank you for the warning, sokol. I was about to ask you how you would rate it on a swearword scale but then I remembered that you agreed with those you believed that “I agree” could be curt and unhelpful. We must have completely different scales in this respect 


sokol said:


> Note: "am Arsch gehen" may be mildly offensive, but it is also possible using this in a not unfriendly and joking way (with close friends of course, and in appropriate context, else chances are that you're misunderstood).


Hmm… I have heard this several times. A vulgar word is discussed and then someone says “you can use with close friends”.  I guess it’s quite personal but I don’t have friends who I would say “du gehst mir echt am Arsh” to 
Context:Some time ago I participated on so called cultural discussions. Not a pleasant experience I should say, but back to the topic.The thread was about adopting children by same sex couples. I’m a strong opponent of it and put forward my arguments some of which seemed to turn out controversial to some participants there. I mentioned that I had read that Holland had the highest rate of homosexuals in the world. This must have offended one Hollander because the man would answer every my subsequent remark with “Do you have problem with Holland?” or “Do you have problem with it?” I was so tired of him that the best phrase to express my feelings would be “I don’t have a fucking problem with it and I care fucking nothing about your Holland either, you idiot”.
My question: Would “Du geshst mir echt am Arsch, du Arschloch!” be OK in the situation I described above?

I watched a documentary yesterday about the circumstances that led to Challenger disaster in 1985. In short: the rocket that is filled with fuel is multi-staged one. Each staged is separated from another by so called O-rings. The problem was that they were defective: couldn’t restrain burning gases which penetrated into another stage of the rocket and caused the explosion.
One engineer was aware of the problem. He tried to persuade NASA management to cancel the flight. He had written numerous letters, memorandums, made a lot telephone conversations trying to deliver the problem, but the management didn’t want to take his warnings into consideration. The man said that he was a pain in the ass for them.
 The program was in German but I could hear the original voice in the background. The phrase was translated as “Quergeist” into German (if only I heard it right). 
I guess that “pain in the ass” can sound “mild” or “strong” in different situations.
@ewie: correct?
If yes, a translation should be chosen correspondently.


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## sokol

dec-sev said:


> Hmm… I have heard this several times. A vulgar word is discussed and then someone says “you can use with close friends”.  I guess it’s quite personal but I don’t have friends who I would say “du gehst mir echt am Arsch” to


You can _indeed_ use it with friends in a joking way, but there must be an understanding that it is meant in a friendly way - I would never recommend using it this way by non-natives, as they're bound to get nuances wrong. 
Basically it is a mildly offensive phrase which could be used strongly offensive, depending on the extralinguistic context. 

Whenever not referring to persons but to things the phrase is much milder, or if somebody were to say "Die Hitz' geht mir echt am Arsch!" it isn't really offensive, it's just indicating that you're annoyed by the heat (some people however might take offence because the word "Arsch" is used - especially when children are present, to give a good example: many people in fact will use "Arsch" freely among adults but won't in the presence of children.)



dec-sev said:


> My question: Would “Du gehst mir echt am Arsch, du Arschloch!” be OK in the situation I described above?


Yes, that would be perfectly idiomatic (with "du Arschloch" it would be more offensive by magnitudes than without it), but also, of course, quite unfriendly (even without "du Arschloch"). 
(I remember that discussion you mention here; the phrase "du gehst mir am Arsch" of course would have been a violation of our general rules concerning a respectful tone. ;-)



dec-sev said:


> One engineer was aware of the problem. He tried to persuade NASA management to cancel the flight. He had written numerous letters, memorandums, made a lot telephone conversations trying to deliver the problem, but the management didn’t want to take his warnings into consideration. The man said that he was a pain in the ass for them.
> The program was in German but I could hear the original voice in the background. The phrase was translated as “Quergeist” into German (if only I heard it right).
> I guess that “pain in the ass” can sound “mild” or “strong” in different situations.


Here it would also be very much idiomatic to use the Austrian phrase "die Manager/Chefs/... gehn mir echt am Arsch". To use "Quergeist" sounds weird to me (never heard that word before which, being a correct compound noun, however of course is intelligible to me).


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## Sowka

Good morning 

I think this wasn't _Quergeist_ (never heard that word, either), but _Quälgeist_. This word is quite common.


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## sokol

Sowka said:


> Good morning
> 
> I think this wasn't _Quergeist_ (never heard that word, either), but _Quälgeist_. This word is quite common.


Yep, thanks, it must have been that one indeed.


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## Caroline35

Frank78 said:


> Really? Ok I would understand it but never use it. I'd rather say "Er/Sie/es geht mir auf den Keks/auf den Sack". The latter is rather coarsely. Acutally I'm not really sure which "Sack " is meant in this idiom.


 
Ich danke Dir, Frank. Ich bevorzuge " Er/Sie/ geht mir auf den Keks"


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## dec-sev

Thank you, sokol.





sokol said:


> ... "die Manager/Chefs/... gehn mir echt am Arsch".


The man was referring to himself when he said "pain in the ass". It was he who wrote numerous letters and requests thus annoying the management. 
It must have been _Quälgeist _indeed. I was trying to listen to both languages and missed a lot, but I'm pretty sure to have heard "pain in the ass".


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## ewie

dec-sev said:


> I guess that “pain in the ass” can sound “mild” or “strong” in different situations.
> @ewie: correct?


Oh yes, absolutely, Dec.  At its mildest (jokingly, between friends) it's barely an insult at all.  But even at its strongest (shouting, at a stranger), I wouldn't rank it higher than 6½ in terms of 'sweariness'.
As I said ~ more or less ~ in the thread I linked to before, we swear _so much_ in English that swearwords rapidly lose their 'edge' and new ones have to be invented to replace them.


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## sokol

dec-sev said:


> Thank you, sokol.The man was referring to himself when he said "pain in the ass". It was he who wrote numerous letters and requests thus annoying the management.
> It must have been _Quälgeist _indeed. I was trying to listen to both languages and missed a lot, but I'm pretty sure to have heard "pain in the ass".


Ah, that's different then - so he said that HE had been a pain in the ass for the management: in that case you couldn't use the phrase as indicated above, but he could have said "ich geh denen so lange am Arsch, bis sie mir zuhören", so the phrase needs some re-formulating, but you can use it then.


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## Caroline35

sokol said:


> Ah, that's different then - so he said that HE had been a pain in the ass for the management: in that case you couldn't use the phrase as indicated above, but he could have said "ich geh denen so lange am Arsch, bis sie mir zuhören", so the phrase needs some re-formulating, but you can use it then.


 
You can say it in English, but not in German. It's quite rude and it doesn't have the same meaning that it has in German. 
I think that it's time for us  to go on with something else.


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## sokol

Caroline35 said:


> You can say it in English, but not in German. It's quite rude and it doesn't have the same meaning that it has in German.
> I think that it's time for us  to go on with something else.


Oh, but I only illustrated that the Austrian German phrase isn't quite equivalent to the English one, in this case.  Or at least - that was my intention.


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## dec-sev

And I thank you all (F. Mercury) 
@ewie: thanks for answering on that thread about a swimmer!


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