# Sie trugen nur noch / nur schwarz



## j-Adore

In Deutschland dagegen wirken die Menschen mit 50 Jahren schon ziemlich alt. Sie tragen oft *nur noch *schwarz, bestenfalls beige.

vs:  In Deutschland dagegen wirken die Menschen mit 50 Jahren schon ziemlich alt. Sie tragen oft *nur *schwarz, bestenfalls beige.


What is the function of the added 'noch' here?

How does 'nur noch' compare to 'nur'?

Does  'nur noch' have the connotation of 'only black is still *left*'?


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## Kajjo

j-Adore said:


> Sie tragen oft *nur noch *schwarz, bestenfalls beige


_Sie tragen nur schwarz.
They wear only black.

Sie tragen nur noch schwarz.
They wear only black anymore._

"Noch" adds a time-related connotation. Previously they wore many colors, now only black.

Content-wise this is nonsense, by the way. The author has strange opinions.


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## j-Adore

So is it like 'nicht mehr'?

And the reversed word order "Sie tragen* noch nur *schwarz" doesn't work, right?


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## Kajjo

j-Adore said:


> "Sie tragen* noch nur *schwarz" doesn't work, right


Yeah, that doesn't work.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> Content-wise this is nonsense, by the way. The author has strange opinions.


Die Szene  spielt Anfang der 70er-Jahre, habe ich herausgefunden.  Das war aber auch damals nicht wahr. Scheint ganz schön klischeehaft zu sein, dieser Roman ....!


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## j-Adore

@JClaudeK I'm wondering if this '(nur) *noch*' roughly corresponds to '*se mettre à* (ne ... que ...)'?

Les gens de plus de cinquante ans ont trop tendance à *se mettre à *ne porter que du noir.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> I'm wondering if this 'noch' roughly corresponds to 'se mettre *à*'?


Oui, c'est une traduction possible:
Sie tragen oft *nur noch *schwarz, bestenfalls beige. - Souvent, ils se mettent  à *ne  plus*  porter *que* du noir ou, au mieux, du beige.

Mais on peut aussi dire simplement:  Souvent, ils   *ne *portent* plus* *que* du noir ou, au mieux, du beige.


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## j-Adore

'*ne *... *plus* *que* ...' passt da ja schon besser!  @JClaudeK


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> '*ne *... *plus* *que* ...'


= *nur **noch* - Wie sagt man das denn auf Englisch?


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## bearded

Je pense qu'en français on pourrait dire aussi:  _Ils ne portent désormais que du noir.._


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## JClaudeK

bearded said:


> Ils ne portent désormais que du noir.



Ja, vom Sinn her richtig, das wäre dann aber eher : "Von jetzt / diesem Zeitpunkt an   tragen sie *nur* schwarz."


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## j-Adore

@bearded  I perceive different connotations:

'_ne ... *plus *que ..._': They used to wear red, orange, green etc (virtually any colour, *including black*), but after their turning fifty, their colour choice is now *whittled down* *to *just black.

'_ne ... *désormais *que ..._': They used to wear red, orange, green etc (but* not necessarily* black), but after turning fifty, they now *switch* (/*stick*) *to *black, and black only.


@JClaudeK '*nur noch*' -- In English, I'd say in the negative: 'They do*n't* wear *anything but* black *anymore*' -- with 'nur' and 'noch' corresponding to 'anything but' and 'not anymore' respectively.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> '_ne ... *désormais *que ..._': They used to wear red, orange, green etc (*but not black* / *anything but black*), but after turning fifty, they *switch to *black, and black only.


I don't perceive this connotation _"*but not black* / *anything but black*"._
Wie kommst Du darauf?

Vielleicht weil ich hier ↓ "noch" weggelassen habe?


JClaudeK said:


> "Von jetzt / diesem Zeitpunkt an tragen sie *nur* schwarz."


Eigenlich gehört auch hier ein "noch" dazu: "Von jetzt / diesem Zeitpunkt an tragen sie *nur* *noch* schwarz."




j-Adore said:


> @JClaudeK '*nur noch*' -- In English, I'd say in the negative: 'They do*n't* wear *anything but* black *anymore*' -- with 'nur' and 'noch' corresponding to 'anything but' and 'not anymore' respectively.


Thanks.


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## j-Adore

@JClaudeK I meant it rather as:

'_ne ... *désormais *que ..._': They used to wear red, orange, green etc (but* not necessarily* black), but after turning fifty, they now *switch* (/*stick*) *to *black, and black only.

Edited accordingly.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> They used to wear red, orange, green etc (but* not necessarily* black)



Aber das kann m.E. auch mit "nur noch" = ne .... plus que" der Fall sein.


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## j-Adore

@JClaudeK  What I essentially wanted to say was: With '_ne ... *plus *que ..._', the focus is more on the fact that the choice is now *whittled down* *to *just black.

The '_ne ... *plus *que ..._' indicates that black *definitely *belonged (and still belongs) to their colour palette.

...whereas '_ne ... *désormais *que ..._'  indicates that they used to wear red, orange, green etc but* not necessarily* black.

In a nutshell: They ('*definitely*' vs '*not necessarily*') used to wear black.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> The '_ne ... *plus *que ..._' indicates that black *definitely *belonged (and still belongs) to their colour palette.


Das sehe ich nicht so, genauso wenig wie mit "nur noch".

Auch wenn jemand vorher nie schwarz getragen hat, kann er sagen "Ich (kaufe und) trage nur noch schwarz."
Même si quelqu'un n'a jamais porté du noir il peut dire "Je (n'achète et) ne porte plus que du noir."



j-Adore said:


> In English, I'd say in the negative: 'They do*n't* wear *anything but* black *anymore*'


Wahrscheinlich lässt Du Dich durch die englische Version beeinflussen.


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## JClaudeK

j-Adore said:


> 'They do*n't* wear *anything but* black *anymore*' [....]
> The '_ne ... *plus *que ..._' indicates that black *definitely *belonged (and still belongs) to their colour palette.


Das verwechselst Du offensichtlich mit:  "ils   ne portent plus jamais autre chose que du noir" =  "sie tragen nie mehr etwas anderes als schwarz".


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## elroy

Some dialects of American English have “positive _anymore_” and would use “They only wear black anymore.”  I would say “They only wear black now.”


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## Kajjo

Wie wäre es mit:

_They wear only black from that age on._


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## j-Adore

@JClaudeK Actually, no. I'm quite sure about the 'ne ... plus que ...' comparison. In a simpler example:

Ich habe *nur noch* zwei Euro.

= Je *n*'ai *plus que* deux euros en poche.
[Meaning]: I used to have a lot more (than these two euros), but I'm now down to two euros; I no longer have any more.

...considering that 'ne ... plus que ...' is made up of 'ne ... plus ... [_no longer_]' and 'ne ... que ... [_only_]'.

= I do*n't* have *anything but *two euros *anymore*.
= I *no longer *have *anything but *two euros.
[Or more naturally] = I've *now only* got two euros (left).


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## j-Adore

@Kajjo In BrE, 'onwards' works, too:

_From fifty onwards, they only wear black._


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## j-Adore

"Sie tragen mit fünfzig *nur noch *schwarz." @Kajjo 

Does this imply that when they were younger, they used to wear *black too*, among other colours?


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## Kajjo

j-Adore said:


> Does this imply that when they were younger, they used to wear *black too*, among other colours?


Not really, while it does not imply it, you still might infer it. Basically it focuses on "only black from now on" and makes no statement about earlier dress code. But yes, everyone wears black one time or another. 

You can use "nur noch" without ever having worn black before that point in time.

_Sie hatte nie schwarz getragen. Aber seitdem sie Witwe war, trug sie nur noch schwarz.
<nur noch = ausschließlich>_


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## JClaudeK

Kajjo said:


> Basically it focuses on "only black from now on" and makes no statement about earlier dress code.



Genau das sage ich auch.



j-Adore said:


> Ich habe *nur noch* zwei Euro.
> = Je *n*'ai *plus que* deux euros en poche.
> [Meaning]: I used to have a lot more (than these two euros), but I'm now down to two euros; I no longer have any more.


Mit dem Verb "haben" funktioniert Deine "Beweisführung" ("vorher hatte ich viel Geld/ mehrere schwarze Kleider/ .... , jetzt habe ich nur noch zwei), mit "tragen" aber nicht:

Wenn Du sagst "ich trage *nur* noch schwarz" (= schwarz ist die *einzige* Farbe, die ich noch - _von jetzt an_ - trage)  kannst Du auch schon vorher schwarz getragen haben, musst aber nicht.

"ich trage nur *noch* schwarz" = the only one *from now on *


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