# FR: disparaître - auxiliaire être / avoir



## john_riemann_soong

When it takes the auxiliary être, is it comparable to "has disappeared" versus the plain preterite in English of "disappeared"? It's not a matter of passive versus active voice, is it?

*Moderator note:* Multiple threads have been merged to create this one.


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## shibuya

According to Bernard Pivot (see his dictionary at TV5.org) disparaître is conjugated with avoir, not with être... but I have to admit être disparu could be used in some cases.


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## john_riemann_soong

Yes, but googling "est disparu" shows up lots of results ... thus the conjugation doesn't seem to be that uncommon.


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## Fred_C

Hi. I looked at the google hits for "est disparu". They all come from badly written texts with typos or poor grammar. In all the cases I looked at, the use of "est disparu" is a mistake and should be replaced by "a disparu".


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## Kelly B

I'm not a native French speaker, but I have the impression that people use être disparu more often when the subject himself leaves, as if the verb were reflexive (used with se) even if it is not reflexive. On the other hand, avoir disparu seems to be used more often when the cause of the disappearance is less certain.

Does that make any sense? (and is it correct, or at least an accurate observation?)


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## calembourde

Le Petit Robert says:



> On emploie l'auxil. avoir ou (vieilli ou littér.) être (pour indiquer l'état : il est disparu depuis dix ans ).



So apparently you can use être when it really means that somebody *is* missing, rather than saying somebody *has* disappeared. We don't say 'disappeared' in this case in English, but I think that would be the correct translation of _être disparu_ and it makes the use of _être_ rather than _avoir_ more intuitive... it's used for the state of being missing/disappeared rather than the action of disappearing.


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## quentin75

jamais entendu avec ETRE...


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## john_riemann_soong

So, if I were to say "the snow is gone" with "la neige est disparue", that would be perfectly all right?


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## geostan

No, you would say La neige a disparu.

I have no references works with me now, but I'm sure you could say, for instance,

Elle est disparue depuis dix ans. She's been dead for ten years.
The use of être stresses the state rather than the action.


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## john_riemann_soong

So I couldn't optionally stress the state of the snow being gone? "It's gone! Absolutely gone! Every last snowflake! Thanks, El Nino!" 

(_Elle est disparue! Absolument disparue!_)?


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## LaurentK

Jean *a* *disparu* (has disappeared/vanished) 
Jean *est porté* disparu (is reported missing) 
Jean *est un* *disparu* de la Grande Guerre 

As Calembourde pointed out, Le Robert says: "On emploie l'auxil. avoir ou (vieilli ou littér.) être (pour indiquer l'état : il est disparu depuis dix ans )"

In _il est disparu depuis dix ans_ 'est disparu' stands for _est [porté] disparu_. In this particular case, 'depuis dix ans' is necessary to indicate a status(indiquer l'état) of missing person, thus allowing the use of verb _être_. If the status is omitted, the construction is not correct:

Jean *est* *disparu* depuis dix ans 
Jean *est* *disparu*


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## john_riemann_soong

Oh, some time ago I was leafing through my Bescherelle conjugaison book and it said that "être" can be used as an auxiliary for emphasis, e.g. "le soleil a disparu" as normal but "le soleil est disparu" to stress its absence in the sky.


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## LaurentK

You are right, John, it is used in certain situations (old, 'high language', litterature), as explained in threads above, but would be seen as a mistake or babarism in the spoken language.


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## john_riemann_soong

Would it be like using the passe simple in spoken French, or even worse?

And how would one render something like "gone! gone! It's absolutely gone!" in French?


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## iaatf

I am talking about two people who died a long time ago.
Although Bob and Mary "are gone", .........
Shouldn't it be "soient disparus" ????
I would think that "aient disparu" would translate as something different like "they died" or "they disappeared".
thanks.


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## geostan

The use of être stresses the resultant state, whereas avoir does indeed focus on the act of dying.


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## Maître Capello

See also the following threads on the Français Seulement forum:

apparaître / disparaître - auxiliaire être / avoir
[…]


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## L'Inconnu

My two cents:

"They have departed" (they died) = "ils ont disparu"
"They are departed" (they are dead) '= "Ils sont disparus."

Since when can't a past participle be used as an adjective?


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## iaatf

So after reading all these threads I am still confused what to use for "are gone". Seems as though there is a lot of  disagreement of opinions. Thanks.


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## CapnPrep

L'Inconnu said:


> "They have departed" (they died) = "ils ont disparu"
> "They are departed" (they are dead) '= "Ils sont disparu"
> 
> Since when can't a past participle be used as an adjective?


Since forever. Can you think of any adjectival uses for: _souri_, _fallu_, _plu_ (< _plaire_ or _pleuvoir_), _soupé_, _lutté, patienté_,_ pu_, _été_, … Unlike these,_ disparu_ happens to allow adjectival use (but in that case, it needs to agree like an adjective: _Ils sont disparus_).


iaatf said:


> So after reading all these threads I am still confused what to use for "are gone". Seems as though there is a lot of  disagreement of opinions. Thanks.


For the passé composé of _disparaître_, the normal auxiliary is _avoir_. _Être _is less common, and usually perceived as literary or old-fashioned. But it also depends on exactly what "are gone" is supposed to mean. Context, please.


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## iaatf

They are dead and departed. "Although John and Mary are gone, their spirit remains."
Thanks.


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## L'Inconnu

iaatf said:


> "Although John and Mary are gone, their spirit remains."



How does this 'grab you'?

''l'Esprit de John et Mary restent pour toujours entre nous, même s'ils ont disparu.'' 
''The spirit of John and Mary remains forever among us, even though they have departed.''


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## iaatf

Ok, I'm sticking with "avoir". Thanks.


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## L'Inconnu

Actually, I think I got it wrong. I don't think the passé composé goes after <si>. It should be either the imparfait, the plus-que-parfait or the présent. But, the plus-que-parfait applies to habitual activities in the past. And the imparfait applies to counterfactual conditions. So, we have to use the present. Which brings us back to:

''l'Esprit de John et Mary restent pour toujours entre nous, même s'ils sont disparus.''
''The spirit of John and Mary remains forever among us, even though they are departed.''


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## iaatf

I'll go with my original subjunctive clause. (I always like to impress my professor.) And "they have departed" - "aient disparu" works fine. Thanks again.


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## L'Inconnu

[…]

Eva, le vent dont je te parlais
Est à présent parti loin de chez moi
*-->Il est disparu mais tu es toujours là*<--
C'est comme un soulagement, un secret partagé


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## Hiimnoam64

Hi these are the lines from Stromae's "papaoutai";

"Un jour ou l’autre *on sera* tous papa
Et d’un jour à l’autre *on aura* disparu*" 
*
In the second line he uses the verb "avoir" and I don't quite understand why. If I understand correctly, the line now goes "And from one day to the next one (as in" any day now ") we will have disappeared". Why not "on sera disparu"?


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## Hildy1

The future perfect is formed just like the English future perfect verb that you give:
on       -        aura       -       disparu
we     -     will have     -      disappeared
(Sorry about the hyphens; the spaces that I put between the parts of the verb keep disappearing.)

_Disparaître_ can be conjugated with _avoir_ or _être_; _avoir_ is more common today.

"Le verbe _disparaître_ peut, en principe, se conjuguer avec _avoir_ ou _être_ selon que l’on veut mettre l’accent sur l’action (_avoir_) ou sur le résultat (_être_). Dans l’usage général actuel toutefois, l’emploi de l’auxiliaire _être_ est devenu plus rare et marqué comme littéraire ou vieilli dans plusieurs ouvrages de référence; _disparaître_ tend aujourd’hui à être conjugué avec _avoir _dans tous les contextes."
http://bdl.oqlf.gouv.qc.ca/bdl/gabarit_bdl.asp?id=3850


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## Hiimnoam64

That was very interesting for me to read  thanks!


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