# Pronunciation: 阕



## yuechu

大家好！

I was recently listening to a song called 千千阙歌. Does anyone know how to pronounce 阙 here and what it means? (I noticed that it is a 多音字）
Thanks!


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## T.D

Cantonese: kyut    (with a silent 't')
In mandarin, I believe it shall be que4 (but not too sure)

According to 百度百科,  阙 works as a quantifier for songs (note this meaning is not included in the official 新华字典) 
千千阙歌 simply means thousands of songs.


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## SuperXW

According to the dictionary, the orthodox character is 阕, not 阙.
阕，量词，歌曲或词，一首为一阕；一首词的一段亦称一阕，前一段称“上阕”，后一段称“下阕”。
千千阕歌 literally means thousands and thousands pieces of songs.


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## SimonTsai

Nice catch, @SuperXW! It indeed should be '闋'. I didn't spot the mistake at first glance.

And yes, it is pronounced '鵲', the fourth tone. It is a measure word there, but not a common one. (I've never heard it on occasions other than classes on classical Chinese literature.)


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## yuechu

Oh, I didn't realize that it was the wrong character. Thanks for the correction! 

EDIT: I am surprised that even 百度百科 also has the wrong character for the title of this song! (as well as many Youtube videos...)


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## T.D

Well 百度百科 is not a reliable source of information I would say, just convenient that's all.


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## SuperXW

yuechu said:


> Oh, I didn't realize that it was the wrong character. Thanks for the correction!
> 
> EDIT: I am surprised that even 百度百科 also has the wrong character for the title of this song! (as well as many Youtube videos...)


This is not a modern character, and the song is not in Mandarin, therefore it is easy to make mistake.


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## radagasty

T.D said:


> Cantonese: kyut    (with a silent 't')



Both 闋 and 闕 are indeed pronounced /kyut3/ in Cantonese, but I’m not sure why you say that the /t/ is silent, as it isn’t.


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## yuechu

I think I know what T.D means though. The final "t"s in Cantonese are not pronounced very strongly compared to how they are sometimes pronounced in other languages (in terms of aspiration).

Thank you all for your help!


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## SuperXW

radagasty said:


> ...but I’m not sure why you say that the /t/ is silent, as it isn’t.


It is obviously silent...I'm not sure why you say it isn't...


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## radagasty

SuperXW said:


> It is obviously silent...I'm not sure why you say it isn't...



I'm not sure what to say here, but Cantonese is my mother tongue, so I am not altogether ignorant about such matters. At any rate, I don't think my assertion can simply be dismissed as being ‘obviously’ false with no further justification.

From a more objective perspective, the transcription /kyut3/ is a phonemic transcription, so, by definition, if /t/ is indicated in the transcription, then it is not silent. See, for instance, the WikiPedia article on 粵語拼音 for more detail.


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## SuperXW

radagasty said:


> I'm not sure what to say here, but Cantonese is my mother tongue, so I am not altogether ignorant about such matters. At any rate, I don't think my assertion can simply be dismissed as being ‘obviously’ false with no further justification.
> 
> From a more objective perspective, the transcription /kyut3/ is a phonemic transcription, so, by definition, if /t/ is indicated in the transcription, then it is not silent. See, for instance, the WikiPedia article on 粵語拼音 for more detail.


I would not dare to question your familiarity of your mother tongue, and I've no intention to judge you anyway. I'm just saying it is obviously silent in my ears...I cannot imagine why it is not.
And to me, it's not about Cantonese, as "silent" is an English word...
My understanding of "silent" simply means that I can't hear any sound for that "t".

粤语拼音 and 国际音标 are different systems. In 粤语拼音方案, /t/ is one 塞音韵尾. It's definition:

塞音为一种辅音，借由*阻塞声道*使所有气流停止。依照辅音发音三阶段，*成阻*时发音部位紧闭；*持阻*时保持紧闭，同时呼出气流，但气流阻塞在发音部位，好像是发音的做势；*除阻*时突然将障碍开放，气流透出，*因爆发、爆裂而成声*。

可见对于塞音，只有“除阻”时，才会成声。而我所听到的粤语塞音韵尾，没有“除阻”这个阶段。英语“除阻”则很明显。

Another informal reference:


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## radagasty

All right... the problem here may be one of terminology. If the final stops -p, -t and -k in Cantonese were truly silent, then there would be no difference between 濕 /sap1/, 膝 /sat1/ and 塞 /sak1/. That they are different, and that the difference can be heard and distinguished, indicates that the final stops cannot be silent.

It is true, however, that Mandarin does not have final stops, but it does have these three sounds at the beginning of a syllable, represented in 漢語拼音 by b- d- and g- respectively, as in 班 丹 干. These are in fact the same sounds, unaspirated voiceless stops, but Cantonese can have them not only at the beginning of the syllable, but also at the end. Unfortunately, 粵語拼音 is not very consistent in this regard, because the same sounds at the beginning of a syllable are represented by b-, d-, g- as in 漢語拼音, with p-, d-, k- being used for the aspirate stops. The final stops represented in 粵語拼音 by -p, -t, -d, however, are not aspirate.

As for the various sources you cite, I think you may perhaps be confusing the notion of a ‘stop’ (塞音) with silence. In the pronunciation of a stop, the air-flow is stopped (阻斷氣流), whence its name, but this stoppage of the airflow is audible, and depending on where air column is blocked, a different sound is produced, whence the distinction between -p, -t and -k. And unlike final stops in English, which are aspirated, those in Cantonese are not, thus there is a difference between ‘leap’ and 獵 /lip6/. That is to say, in English, the stoppage of the airflow is released with a puff of air, whereas in Cantonese, the stop is not released, perhaps giving the impression that the Cantonese final stops are softer than the corresponding stops in English.

In both cases, a final stop should not be followed by a vowel, whence the description that 最後的 P 會很輕很輕. This is intended to suggest to Mandarin speakers, who are unaccustomed to producing final oral stops, that they avoid the tendency to introduce a vowel after the stop, turning it into another syllable (並且不發音): ‘keep’ → kipu. I’ll warrant, though, that most English speakers would agree that the final P in ‘peep’ is not softer than the initial P, and likewise in Cantonese, the final -k in 革 /gaak3/ is not softer than the initial g- (which are actually the same sound, even though they are represented differently in 粵語拼音).


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## SuperXW

radagasty said:


> And unlike final stops in English, which are aspirated, those in Cantonese are not, thus there is a difference between ‘leap’ and 獵 /lip6/. That is to say, in English, the stoppage of the airflow is released with a puff of air, whereas in Cantonese, the stop is not released, perhaps giving the impression that the Cantonese final stops are softer than the corresponding stops in English.


Thanks for the explanation. The paragraph above is the reason why some claimed it was "silent". This "silent" is not linguistic terminology, but a general feeling, which could cause misinterpretation.


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