# Allow threads to be marked as "transient," leading them to be deleted after a time



## User With No Name

I like this forum. I find it to be a valuable tool, and also very enjoyable. But there a lot of rules, some of which only make sense once one gets an idea of what the administrator's objectives are. And, frankly, while I respect the work they do, it does seem to me that sometimes the moderators can get a little over-eager, especially when some poor language student asks a question, but not in the right format. This also leads to situations where users are chastised for trying to be helpful, which is irritating.

So I have a suggestion. Why not allow users to mark their own threads as "transient," so they would disappear (either after a set period of time or after a set period of time after the last post)? And, of course, moderators could do the same thing. Clearly mark such threads so that all readers can recognize them. So people who respond would do so with the understanding that what they post won't be around forever or become part of the database.

That way, if a thread isn't original, or goes off in random directions, or gets chatty, or whatever, it could just float off into oblivion. It wouldn't mess up the database. It wouldn't need much moderation (basically just checking for spam, copyright violations, abusive language, etc.) It might even improve the database, since simple language student questions, which now stay around if they're formatted correctly but may not really contribute much, could be marked transient and filtered out.

I know this would be a big change, and it would have to be designed and implemented carefully. But I wish it could be considered. I think something along these lines could reduce the workload of moderators while making the forums a more welcoming community without detracting from the site's longer-term objectives.


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## mkellogg

Hi. It depends on the forum, but the moderators do sometimes decide that a thread can stay, but mark it as something that should be deleted because it doesn't add value to the "database" of questions and answers here.  You suggest full transparency, too. I don't think that would be best. It would probably start arguments (Why do you want to delete my thread???) that the moderators don't have time for.


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## Ghabi

Usually we let threads that we know we won't keep (e.g. deciphering of tattoos which turn out to be random words, or even non-words, instead of useful expressions that enrich the database) hang in the forum for some time (say, two or three weeks), before deleting them, so the original posters get the help they need and the contributors' efforts won't be wasted; when said threads get too chatty, we close them and again let them hang for a while before deletion. If the posters are new to the forum, we usually PM them to tell them why their threads have been closed and will be deleted later.

Some mods use tags to remind themselves of threads "tbd" (to be deleted), some perhaps just make a mental note (and then completely forget it, as the case may be).


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## JamesM

And just a reminder.... deleting a thread here doesn't remove it from the internet.  Web crawlers and search engines make copies of everything on the internet's most active sites every day.  We can delete it here but it can still be found in many places, such as webarchive.org and other places.

Deleting it here to clean up WordReference can make sense under certain conditions.  Deleting it here in order to remove it from the internet is, frankly, an exercise in futility.


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## Paulfromitaly

User With No Name said:


> This also leads to situations where users are chastised for trying to be helpful



Users don't get told off for trying to be helpful.
Senior members may be reminded that they should report questions that don't meet the WR rules instead of answering them because when they do so they can lead new members to believe they will always be helped even if they don't follow the rules.
We want people to frame their questions so that, ideally, none of their requests will get eventually deleted. Allowing foreros to mark their threads as "transient" wouldn't motivate them to formulate their queries according to the rules but rather give them an excuse not to do it.


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## User With No Name

JamesM said:


> Deleting it here in order to remove it from the internet is, frankly, an exercise in futility.



Yes, I realize that. My suggestion was more about offering a way for posts deemed unhelpful, but which may have value short-term to the participants, to quietly fade away rather than being actively "closed" and "deleted."



Paulfromitaly said:


> Users don't get told off for trying to be helpful.



I don't want to start a discussion of specific incidents (which I know is against yet another one of the "rules"), but yes, sometimes they do. And much though I like this forum, it's annoying.

When I'm driving down the highway, it's my responsibility to obey the speed limit. It is not my responsibility (nor is it safe or helpful) for me to block the left [UK: right] lane in order to make sure everybody else does, as well.

I'm going to shut up now, because if I don't, I'll wind up getting in trouble. But I stand by my original point. This excellent forum would be even better and more welcoming if there were more emphasis on getting users to behave in the desired way "automatically" and finding ways to accommodate non-optimal user behavior while maintaining the integrity of the database, and less emphasis on "mods" reviewing everything and keeping us all in line.


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## Paulfromitaly

User With No Name said:


> When I'm driving down the highway, it's my responsibility to obey the speed limit. It is not my responsibility (nor is it safe or helpful) for me to block the left [UK: right] lane in order to make sure everybody else does, as well.


When you're driving down the highway and you see a hit-and-run driver who has just caused a car accident it is your moral responsibility (to say the least) to report the driver to the police and not help him flee the scene.
That's what a sensible, public-spirited citizen would do. 



> *We welcome members who share our goals and philosophy, and agree to act in accord with the rules and guidelines of the Forums.*
> 
> *Report Problems*
> *Tell moderators about problematic posts, rule violations*, or anything else you think needs moderator attention by clicking on the "Report" link in the bottom of each post. Please, do not react to rule violations: *just report them*.


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## tsoapm

Paulfromitaly said:


> We want people to frame their questions so that, ideally, none of their requests will get eventually deleted. Allowing foreros to mark their threads as "transient" wouldn't motivate them to formulate their queries according to the rules but rather give them an excuse not to do it.


Very much this. To make all posts a contribution for other people and not a personal quick fix.


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## L'irlandais

Paulfromitaly said:


> *Users don't get told off for trying to be helpful.*
> Senior members may be reminded that they should report questions that don't meet the WR rules instead of answering them because when they do so they can lead new members to believe they will always be helped even if they don't follow the rules.
> We want people to frame their questions so that, ideally, none of their requests will get eventually deleted. Allowing foreros to mark their threads as "transient" wouldn't motivate them to formulate their queries according to the rules but rather give them an excuse not to do it.



I recall being chastised in the English only forum for using the word shrug too often.  I was told in no uncertain terms that it could only convey distain and that it occurred 100s of times in my threads spoke volumes about my contribution to the forum.
In fairness to the mod, I think they were a bit frazzled at the time.  The member who reported my « distain » is still on here being as sharp with newbies as ever.  Perhaps in the US being brash is seen as a positive trait, where I come from we view it differently.  Personally, I mostly avoid English only now as (I find) it is moderated differently to the other sub-forums I visit.


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## Michelvar

L'irlandais said:


> I mostly avoid English only now as (I find) it is moderated differently to the other sub-forums I visit


Some mods decisions may depend on the balance between the amount of time they can give to their forum and the amount of work that has to be done. Users often notice that very active forums, like English Only, are more harshly moderated. Well, in a very active forum you have more people likely to make threads drift, or to engage internet fights, than on a slow forum. Also, more newcomers everydays who think they can bring their own rules. Trolls get bored on slow forums, they get attracted to faster ones. If you want to keep control, you have to be a bit more strict.


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## L'irlandais

Thanks for the reply.  You may be surprised, but we have the odd troll over on the other languages sub-forum from time to time.  And that’s a pretty slow forum at the best of times.  ~shrug~ (Absolutely no distain intended.)

French grammar’ is more strictly moderated than the French vocabulary forum.
The German forum is my favourite on here, always know where you stand with the mods there.


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## User With No Name

Thanks for all the thoughtful comments.

I understand and respect the administrator's decision not to implement my suggestion. (I didn't really expect it to be implemented, and I can see the reasons why.)

Still, I hope my broader point will be taken into consideration: while this is a great forum, there are a lot of rules, and the moderation often seems heavy-handed and can be off-putting. Granted, it makes more sense once one understands the site's objectives. But still, it can be frustrating.

And I'm sorry, but I do think moderators should be careful about criticizing users for responding to reasonable questions, even if the questions aren't always in the right format. I will try to use judgment (and not, for example, respond to obvious requests to do students' homework for them). But for less egregious cases, I'm not your enforcer.


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## Copyright

User With No Name said:


> And I'm sorry, but I do think moderators should be careful about criticizing users for responding to reasonable questions, even if the questions aren't always in the right format. I will try to use judgment (and not, for example, respond to obvious requests to do students' homework for them). But for less egregious cases, I'm not your enforcer.


Reporting isn't enforcing. 

Reporting is bringing a post to the attention of moderators who are all volunteers, who have lives away from the forum they wouldn't mind living, and who would like to occasionally post as regular members – all of which means they don't have time to read every thread and catch every problem without a little help from their friends, i.e. other members who care about the quality of forum discussions. 

If they don't feel the alert needs any moderation, they'll leave it alone.


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