# 心配だそうだ



## Myuu

Hi everyone!

I have a question once again.
This time it concerns this sentence:

友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれないと、ちょっと心配そうだったけど、着いたら、とても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。

This sentence was originally written like this except with　心配だそうだった instead, but it was corrected so that だ was deleted. 

My understanding is that:
心配そうだ means "he looks worried"
心配だそうだ means "he said he was worried"

I was aiming for the latter meaning because the friend told me directly that she was worried, I wasn't just guessing by looking at her face. Do I have to write that differently to convey that meaning? Does 心配だそうだ sound unnatural in the sentence? Am I wrong about what it means in the first place?


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## Aoyama

心配そうだ means "he looks/looked worried"  . Yes.
心配だそうだ means "he said he was worried" . Rather, "it was said that he/she looked worried", "you could say that he/she looked worried/troubled";
But the difference is not so big between the two.


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## Wishfull

Myuu said:


> My understanding is that:
> 心配そうだ means "he looks worried" the point is that it is not "he *looked* worried", right?
> 心配だそうだ means "he said he was worried"



OK.
After thinking for a while, I got your misunderstanding.
Your understanding has a problem of tenses.

心配だそうだ　means "I hear that he is worried"
心配だったそうだ　means "I hear that he was worried"
心配だったそうだった　means "I heard that he was worried"
心配だそうだった　is grammatically incorrect, which is "I *heard* that he* is *worried"



友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれないと、ちょっと心配だったそうだったけど、着いたら、とても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。
友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれないと、ちょっと心配だったそうだが、着いたら、とても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。

BTW, the Japanese sentence has the ambiguity;
Who is the person that became happy and walked around the museum?
Your friend? or The child? or Both?
What is the relation of 友達 and この子？
この子　is your child? or Your friend's child?  or Somebody else's child?


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## Aoyama

> 心配だそうだ　means "I hear that he is worried"


 yes, which is in line with what I said.
The rest of Wishfull's explanation is pertinent (of course).


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## akimura

Myuu, your Japanese sentence sounds almost perfect, but it's not clear who "she" is, who "he" is, who "友達" is, or who "この子" is among some other issues.  I think it would be very helpful if would write what you meant to say with the Japanese sentence in English.


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## Myuu

Sorry, I should have explained it more. 
Here is the sentence in English:
My friend was worried that this kid would think the museum was boring, but when we arrived, he (the kid) walked around happily looking at the items on display. 

I had introduced the kid in an earlier sentence as someone my friend babysat. 

Maybe it would have been better to simply write 心配した? But I heard it's not good to report on another person's emotions like they are fact because you are not the person and only they can know for sure how they are feeling. It's like how you can't say "アリスは悲しい。" You must use　"悲しそう" (looks sad) or　"悲しいそう". (heard that she is sad). Is that correct?



> 心配だそうだった　is grammatically incorrect, which is "I *heard* that he* is *worried"


This is really cool, because in English "I heard that he is worried" is perfectly fine. Actually, I've been encountering a lot of instances where I'm messing up the tense in Japanese because I do it the way English does instead. I wasn't aware that they were so different until now. 

To be honest I am a bit confused about Japanese tense, so I'll think I'll start another topic on that soon.

Thanks again for your help, guys! I really appreciate it.


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## akimura

As I had a hard time understanding (even) the corrected version of your Japanese passage,  I would apply minor, further changes to the corrected version as follows.友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれない、とちょっと心配そうだったけれども、着いてみると、その子は彼女の心配をよそにとても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。​Meanwhile, you were aiming to mean "she said she was worried" (assuming your friend is she, not he).  In that case, I would minimally modify your sentence as follows:友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思わないかちょっと心配だ、と言っていたけれども、着いてみると、その子は彼女の心配をよそにとても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。
（友達は、「この子が博物館をつまらないと思わないかちょっと心配だ。」と言っていたけれども、着いてみると、その子は彼女の心配をよそにとても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。）

or

友達によると、その子が博物館をつまらないと思わないかちょっと心配だったそうだが、着いてみると、その子は彼女の心配をよそにとても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。​Here are my reasons for corrections.


 I would use けど in very casual speech.  As your passage looks like an ordinary written style rather than a talking style, I would recommend not using けど.
 Regarding the addition of その子は after 着いてみたら, it's added because the subject of the clause after "but" wasn't clear enough as to whether it's the child or your friend, although from the context, it sounded more likely the child.
 Regarding the addition of 彼女の心配をよそに, it's added because in the _A but B_ construction, A and B should be contrasted clearly.
 There are other corrections.  Feel free to ask if you need explanation.


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## Myuu

Thank you akimura, I have a few questions. 

~てみる means to try something to see the outcome, right? 
Would 着いたら sound unnatural in the sentence or must it change to 着いてみると?

Also, would it be possible to just outright say 心配した, as in 友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれない、とちょっと心配したけれども...? 

One last thing: what determines whether you use この or その in this sentence? The first part of the sentence uses この but the second part uses その when it's talking about the child. And why is it that この changes to その when using 友達によると?


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## akimura

Myuu said:


> ~てみる means to try something to see the outcome, right?


 
 Yes, pretty much.  But in the case of 着いてみると, the action 着く was not tried; it was just taken.



Myuu said:


> Would 着いたら sound unnatural in the sentence or must it change to 着いてみると?


 
 I'm not sure it's a must, but at least it sounded a little unnatural.   However, the use of 着いたら sounds quite natural in "その子は博物館をつまらないと言っていたが、着いたらとても楽しそうに展示物を見て歩き回った。"  I would need some more time to come up with explanation, if I can, as to why.



Myuu said:


> Also, would it be possible to just outright say  心配した, as in 友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれない、とちょっと心配したけれども...?


友達は、この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれない、とちょっと心配したけれども、着いてみると、その子は彼女の心配をよそにとても楽しそうに展示物を見ながら歩き回った。​Indeed, it sounds like perfectly natural Japanese.



Myuu said:


> One last thing: what determines whether you use この  or その in this sentence? The first part of the sentence uses この but the  second part uses その when it's talking about the child.



First, you used この in the first part of the sentence, which is direct speech.  I see it okay, on the assumption that the child was very close to your friend when she said, "この子が博物館をつまらないと思うかもしれない."  The second part is indirect speech, so you can't use この.  その here is translated as  "the" in English.



Myuu said:


> And why is it that この changes to その when using 友達によると?



Because in the sentence starting with 友達によると, it's indirect speech.  その here is translated as, again, "the" in English.

In addition, in your case, it's writing, not speaking.  So the child can't be close to you when your reader is reading your passage.


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## Myuu

Thank you very much, akimura! You're a wonderful help.


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## YangMuye

> 心配だったそうだった　means "I heard that he was worried"


I think 心配だったようだ, 心配だったようだった, 心配なようだった, 心配そうだった and 心配だったらしい are correct(despite of the difference in meaning).
It seems that 心配らしかった is mainly used in narrative tense.

I thought that そうだ only had 終止形 and behaved like a 終助詞(something like かも, でしょう), it was more or less similar to らしい at this point.
I thought "そうだ" had nothing with "hear", which was just a marker that can tell the listener that it's not a statement of fact, but a hypothesis, you took unconfirmed evidence from others.

But it seems that according to your explanation, I was wrong...


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## akimura

Just for clarification, there are the _mode_ auxiliary verb そうだ and the _hearsay_ auxiliary verb そうだ.

*1. Verb+そうだ*雨が*降りそうだ*。(連用形+そうだ: mode)
_It looks like rain._

雨が*降るそうだ*。(終止形+そうだ: hearsay)
_I hear it will rain._​*2. i-adjective/da-adjecive + そうだ*この車は*高そうだ*。（語幹+そうだ: mode）
_This car looks expensive._

この車は*高いそうだ*。（終止形+そうだ:hearsay）
_I hear this car is expensive._

彼女は*心配そうだ*。（語幹+そうだ: mode）
_She looks worried._

彼女は*心配だそうだ*。（終止形+そうだ:hearsay）
_I hear she is worried._​*3.** Auxiliary Verb+そうだ
**3a. (Most Auxiliary Verbs except う・よう・まい・です）+そうだ」
*彼女は心配だっ*たそうだ*。（終止形+そうだ: hearsay)
I hear she was worried.​*3b. れる/られる/せる/させる+そうだ
*彼は圭祐にボールを蹴ら*せそうだ*。（連用形+そうだ: mode）
_It looks as if he is going to let Keisuke kick the ball._

彼は圭祐にボールを蹴ら*せるそうだ*。（終止形+そうだ: hearsay）
_I hear he lets Keisuke kick the ball._​By hearsay, I mean that the person may have heard directly from someone, or there may be just a rumor around.


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