# Romanian: the forgotton language?!



## robbie_SWE

I would actually like to know if there is an interest WR to learn Romanian or to get acquainted with the Romanian language. I would actually like to have a poll, but I don't know how to do it. ​ 
It has come to my attention that many people have the wrong impression of the Romanian language. I've heard hundreds of different varieties of where Romanian comes from and how it sounds. But, in my opinion, very few actually have any knowledge or contact with this Romance language. ​ 
So, do I dare ask the question: what do you know about Romanian and do you want to know more??

(my secret intention of trying to start a Romanian forum, don't tell!   )


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## Lusitania

hello Robbie,

I know that it's a kind of latin language, with many similar words to portuguese and I think that some words sound a bit like esperanto as well. Am I right?

If I had time I would learn it for sure as usually when I go abroad to international meeting I always meet nice people from Romania with whom I often keep in touch. Also in portugal with a nice community from Romania.

Best


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## Outsider

No, Robbie, the forgotten language is Ladino.  

Seriously, Romanian is one of the languages that people ask the most about, in the Other Languages forum...


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## robbie_SWE

Haha...I know that Ladino maye is more forgotten, but it seems that most people don't consider Romanian being in the same group as Italian, Spanish or French. It's like high-school, always last to be picked to play basketball. 

 robbie


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## LuvDancin

I think your pool should have more optiones. 
I don't know much about Romanian language, to be honest. I would like to learn it (or at least know more about it), but at the moment I'm giving advantage (have i used the right word lol?) to other languages, more commenly spoken. Maybe someday, it's always good to know as much as you possibly can, right


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## Miguelillo 87

Appalling here on México this kind of languages as you said are almost forgotten, I mean Mexican it’s interested more in English (obvious) and French, Italian, Japanese, German, I mean the business languages, But don’t be too sad, I mean that’s not only happened with Romanian also with Czech, Serbian, and other kinds of eastern European languages maybe the only who it’s a little bit interesting it’s Russian but that another story


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## jester.

I'd definitely like to learn more about Romanian. In fact, it's already on my list of the languages I want to learn.


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## Alxmrphi

robbie_SWE said:


> Haha...I know that Ladino maye is more forgotten, *but it seems that most people don't consider Romanian being in the same group as Italian, Spanish or French.* It's like high-school, always last to be picked to play basketball.
> 
> robbie



I didn't even know it was a Romance language, I voted "no", but darn you people, got be a bit interested now!



			
				jester said:
			
		

> I'd definitely like to learn more about Romanian. In fact, it's already on my list of the languages I want to learn



Do you have any family there or a need to speak it, or because you like the sound of it, it doesn't (to me) seem like a language you would "learn" for the fun of it, surely its use is limited compared with other languages?


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## Outsider

It's an interesting language, because it's derived from Latin, but it was surrounded by Slavic languages for a long time, so it was very influenced by them. As an example, the Romanian word for "Yes" is... _da_! 

It's also a conservative language, in some ways; they still have some cases, and three genders.


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## Alxmrphi

Three genders? Masculine, feminine and alien? How can there be more than two genders?


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## Outsider

Masculine, feminine, and _neuter_. As in English "he", "she", "it". 
And in Latin.


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## jester.

Alex_Murphy said:


> Do you have any family there or a need to speak it, or because you like the sound of it, it doesn't (to me) seem like a language you would "learn" for the fun of it, surely its use is limited compared with other languages?



That would rather be for the fun of it. But after having studied Latin, Spanish and French to a certain extent, I daresay learning Romanian might be relatively easy for me. But you are of course right, its use is limited to Romania and Moldavia.

Off topic remark: But, come to think of it, I learn all languages for fun, paramountly. Using them in business is an additional benefit. I'm not yet old enough to use them in business so this aspect is not yet so important for me.


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## jester.

Outsider said:


> Masculine, feminine, and _neuter_. As in English "he", "she", "it".
> And in Latin.



But, and this is interesting: Romanian neuter gender does not behave like a third and diferent gender, but is rather a mixture of masculine and feminine. You can check that on Wikipedia.


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## Alxmrphi

Do you have a direct link to the part you're refering to, please ?


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## jester.

Link



> Romanian nouns are categorized into three genders, masculine, feminine, and neuter, a feature preserved from Latin. Nouns which in their dictionary form (singular, nominative, with no article) end in a consonant or in vowel/semivowel *u* are mostly masculine or neuter; if they end in *ă* or *a* they are usually feminine. In the plural, ending *i* corresponds generally to masculine nouns, whereas feminine and neuter nouns often end in *e*. As there are many exceptions to these rules, each noun has to be learned together with its gender.


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## Outsider

I see what you mean... neuter nouns "look" masculine in the singular, but feminine in the plural! Thanks.


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## jester.

Outsider said:


> I see what you mean... neuter nouns "look" masculine in the singular, but feminine in the plural! Thanks.



It would actually be interesting to see how adjectives are adjusted to them. Robbie, can you tell us? Maybe we should start a new thread about this...


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## Alxmrphi

Can we call it the hermaphrodite gender?


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## Outsider

I don't know, "hermaphrodite" is a masculine noun in Portuguese. I wonder what its gender is in Romanian, or Latin. Or Greek, for that matter... 

P.S. Let's find out!


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## Pivra

Romanian is not a forgotten language. There are lots of people who don't know that other languages beside English and Spanish exist lol. (i do not mean to offend people in the US in particular)


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## Blackleaf

Romanian is a strange one. Unlike the other Romance languages - but like Swedish and Danish - there is no actual word for "the". "The" is shown by an ending on the noun.

E.g.

Codru - forest/ Codrul - the forest
Pom - tree/ Pomul - the tree


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## robbie_SWE

Neuter nouns look masculine in the singular, but act feminine in plural. 

Ex: (train)

*un tren, multe trenuri*

With adjective: 

*un tren frumos/rapid (mas.)*
*trei trenuri frumoase/rapide (fem.)*

Hope it helps! 

 robbie


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## robbie_SWE

Miguelillo 87 said:


> Appalling here on México this kind of languages as you said are almost forgotten, I mean Mexican it’s interested more in English (obvious) and French, Italian, Japanese, German, I mean the business languages, But don’t be too sad, I mean that’s not only happened with Romanian also with Czech, Serbian, and other kinds of eastern European languages maybe the only who it’s a little bit interesting it’s Russian but that another story


 
Sorry Miguellio87, but I don't think one can compare Romanian with the other languages in Eastern Europe.


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## robbie_SWE

Alex_Murphy said:


> I didn't even know it was a Romance language, I voted "no", but darn you people, got be a bit interested now!
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any family there or a need to speak it, or because you like the sound of it, it doesn't (to me) seem like a language you would "learn" for the fun of it, surely its use is limited compared with other languages?


 
Well, Romanian is a Latin language and probably the strangest of them all. 

 robbie


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## jester.

robbie_SWE said:


> Neuter nouns look masculine in the singular, but act feminine in plural.
> 
> Ex: (train)
> 
> *un tren, multe trenuri*
> 
> With adjective:
> 
> *un tren frumos/rapid (mas.)*
> *trei trenuri frumoase/rapide (fem.)*
> 
> Hope it helps!
> 
> robbie



Thanks 

That's really interesting.


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## Pivra

robbie_SWE said:


> Sorry Miguellio87, but I don't think one can compare Romanian with the other languages in Eastern Europe.


 

I understand your feeling. Other Sanskrit based languages don't love us too and other people don't think that Thai and Sanskrit are related just because of our geographical location.


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## ireney

I haven't voted because I am interested in the Romanian language but I would be lying if I said I am going to actively try to find more information about it.

I know it's a Latin language and, if one knows some Latin he/she can see the similarities (in some cases greater than those existing in other Romance languages) quite easily.

The reason I know it by the way is a bit strange. Anyone remember/has ever seen the "Dacia" (cars made in Romania)? Well I've seen quite a few (mainly in past decades). I was quite young when I mentioned I liked the name and got the  _full_ history of the name from my (high-school teacher) mom followed by the customary (she teaches -among other things- Latin and History so you get the picture) "shortish" history of Romania and its (her?) language


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## beclija

I haven't voted either, for the same reasons as ireney, though I find in it very interesting indeed. 

I recognize Romanian when I hear (and I hear it quite alot in this place), know what it is, and I knew a few phrases to get me along when I was there. Someday I overheard a conversation in Romanian and I thought the people were Vlachs from, I don't know, Bulgaria or something, because it seemed to me like Romanian mixed with Slavic, until I realised it was just Romanian.

And I don't think it's a "forgotten language", by the way.


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## ireney

Vlach is Romanian too if I am not mistaken


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## beclija

It depends on your definition of Romanian - some people use Romanian to refer to the standard and the dialects within Romania exclusively, for others it covers Vlach and Moldavian. Or so I guess. But the point is that Vlachs that live in a Slavic territory surely mix their language with the language of their surroundings and school etc., and it felt so much Slavic that I tried to speak to them in Serbian, feeling sure that they must speak some South Slavic language besides Romanian/Vlach. Alas, they were from Romania and didn't understand me...


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## ireney

beclija, after reading the so-called discussion in wikipedia's article on Vlachs I understand better what you mean by "some people". Boy that was intense!


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## beclija

I know a few Vlachs from Eastern Serbia here in Vienna who wouldn't call themselves Romanians. They might not even tell you that they are Vlachs either if you don't come into a situation where they translate Romanian to you, they'd just say they're from Serbia (or even "Serbs"). One guy told me that in his village, the census figures show 95% self-declared Serbs, while everyone he knows speaks Romanian at home, and it's not because there were any specific pressures against Vlachs. 

By the way, did you check the English or the Greek Wikipedia? Because I guess it might be a fairly hot topic in Greece as well...


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## ireney

I checked the English one. In Greece the situation is like this: some people flatly refuse to acknowledge the fact that they who we call "Vlachi" (Βλάχοι) have (or had, depends on how you see it; very few if any still do speak in) a dialect which is well, shall we call it Romanian?

There are those who will rant and storm about the rights of the minority of the Vlachs.

The rest of us have actually bothered to ask our Vlach descended friends who will admit (of course!) that their hmmmm dialect? is Romanian interspersed with a lot of Greek but do not consider themselves anything else than Greek.

In Macedonia (the region, not FYROM) things have been pretty much cleared up in the most brutal way. We have other headaches with/in Macedonia so we don't even "remember" (so to speak) that any Vlachs lived there!


P.S. Just checked the Greek entry. Apart from the etymology of the word it says the rather general "Vlachi is a "net" of people (as in ethnicities) who use Romance languages such as the Arumanian, the Vlachomeglenitic (Meglenitic) and Istro-Romanian". 

Following the links you find out that for the first 2 (no article on the 3rd) it says that they are Romance languages closely related to the Romanian but not dialects of it since they were separated ffrom Latin 1200 to 800 years ago.


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## robbie_SWE

ireney said:


> I haven't voted because I am interested in the Romanian language but I would be lying if I said I am going to actively try to find more information about it.
> 
> I know it's a Latin language and, if one knows some Latin he/she can see the similarities (in some cases greater than those existing in other Romance languages) quite easily.
> 
> The reason I know it by the way is a bit strange. Anyone remember/has ever seen the "Dacia" (cars made in Romania)? Well I've seen quite a few (mainly in past decades). I was quite young when I mentioned I liked the name and got the _full_ history of the name from my (high-school teacher) mom followed by the customary (she teaches -among other things- Latin and History so you get the picture) "shortish" history of Romania and its (her?) language


 
I'm intrigued! Would you please like to share your story (the Dacia story) with me?? 

 robbie


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## robbie_SWE

Concerning the discussion about Vlachs and other Romanian minorities outside Romania. I don't consider them to be Romanian at all and (I think) neither to they. They have been cut off from Romania for so long, that their languages and cultures have changed significantly. It doesn't surprise me at all that they feel more Serbian, Greek etc. than Romanian. 

Concerning the Romanian language. There are many different types of Romanian out there, especially in Romania itself. You can speak Romanian with an overwhelming flow of Slavic words, or you can speak Romanian with a Latin (even Dacian) flow of words. It all depends on 1) where you come from 2) how educated you are, and 3) what your ambitions are. 

 robbie


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## skatoulitsa

Alex_Murphy said:


> Three genders? Masculine, feminine and alien? How can there be more than two genders?



Does this really look so weird? Greek has 3 genders too.


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## robbie_SWE

I know Skatoulista!!! I don't think it's weird either.  

 robbie


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## Sallyb36

skatoulitsa said:


> Does this really look so weird? Greek has 3 genders too.


so does German


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## Lusitania

so does portuguese


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## ireney

Robin, I will assume that what my mother told me just because I liked the name Dacia (I hope it's ok to post this link) is of more general interest.

Mind you I am not sure how many of these things she told me that time and how many she told me to a) look up in our ancient but well informed encyclopedia b)I just learnt ealry on that I mix up with that story telling.

The fact is I found it an enchanting and interesting story so I still remember it.

She told me (if memory serves me) that
Dacia in Greek is Δακία (Thakia with th as in the) but the Greeks called the people Γέτες (Γέται in ancient greek, Γέτων in singular. Yetes, Yetae, Yeton, transcibed I guess as Getes, Getae,Geton respectively).
I remember it because I found them so similar yet so different!

I also remember being told that they were ancient Thracian tribes which I always found fascinating for some reason. Romans called the region that coincides roughly with Romania "Dacia". 

I remember the usual mixed feelings I had when she said there were two Dacian wars which were costly for both sides but which the Romans won. (mixed because on one hand I always wanted the Romans to win and on the other I never wanted them to if that makes _any_ sense at all!)

That's what she told me of Dacia as far as I remember .She then told me that I should know that (from her perspective) the Romanian language is one of the languages closest to the Latin since, bar the Slavic words, she found it amazing how close it was to Latin; close enough for her to understand what it said and understand easily the Latin word it came from (she said I would too and she was right).  I won't go into detail on what she said on the matter .

The other thing I remember is me being sad about the ancient people losing their language and she telling me that, as far as she knows (and I haven't tried to find out if all-knowing mom was right once-again-you-know-how-tiring-it-is-to-have-a-mom-that-knows-so-much) there are Dacian words interspersed into Romanian so it wasn't really lost and anyway, they now have a wonderfull language don't they? (she just loves Latin).


P.S. Since then I got a lot of info I learnt myself but have no place here. I can however say that, some ten years ago when my Latin was still fresh I did try to read something in Romanian. I too agree that it is amazing how close it is to Latin!


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## BlueWolf

Lusitania said:


> so does portuguese



Portoguese?  It has two genders, doesn't it?


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## robbie_SWE

Maybe this might be of some interest: 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Dacian_words 

Yes, Romanian does have words from Dacian (appr. 400), but unfortunately not that many. There is a theory discussed by linguists and historians involving the Dacian language and its relation to Latin. Some linguists say that it actually was the forefather of Latin. This might explain why the Romanization of Romania took so little time. 
 
 robbie


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## robbie_SWE

By the way, just wanted to give a text sample of the Romanian language, for those of you who haven't seen Romanian in written form (should've done this from the beginning!). It is the Universal Declaration of Human Rights: 

_Toate fiinţele omeneşti se nasc nesupuse şi asemenea în preţuire şi în drepturi. Ele sunt înzestrate cu cuget şi înţelegere şi se cuvine să se poarte unele faţă de altele după firea frăţiei._

(this version does not contain any loanwords)​ robbie​


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## ireney

robin thanks ! That is interesting! They are not many but not few either (it says at the top that there are more? Plant names if I am not mistaken).

I didn't know that theory about the relation of Dacian and Latin. That's very interesting indeed. I guess mom was right _again_!


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## Lusitania

BlueWolf said:


> Portoguese?  It has two genders, doesn't it?


 
no  we have twice the feminine and very little masculine  

Lots of girl power.

just joking, it's only two I'm afraid there is no room for alliens. Can't avoid gender here.


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## BlueWolf

Lusitania said:


> no  we have twice the feminine and very little masculine
> 
> Lots of girl power.
> 
> just joking, it's only two I'm afraid there is no room for alliens. Can't avoid gender here.



Poor alliens. No one cares them. 

About Rumanian, I've read the Rumanian people can actually understand something of Italian, but the opposite seems very hard to me.  (I tried)


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## robbie_SWE

BlueWolf said:


> Poor alliens. No one cares them.
> 
> About Romanian, I've read the Romanian people can actually understand something of Italian, but the opposite seems very hard to me. (I tried)


 
MOST Romanians can read and understand Italian if they got the chance to do so. It took me only three months to learn enough Italian to get by on. 

PS: Have you tried to read the UDHR I posted before??

 robbie


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## BlueWolf

robbie_SWE said:


> _Toate fiinţele omeneşti se nasc nesupuse şi asemenea în preţuire şi în drepturi. Ele sunt înzestrate cu cuget şi înţelegere şi se cuvine să se poarte unele faţă de altele după firea frăţiei._



Yes, all I understood is _toate, omeneşti, nasc, sunt _(thank Latin)_, frăţiei _(only knowing already how the 1st article is, in different case I wouldn't have recognized it)_._


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## robbie_SWE

Ok. There is another version of the same text, using loanwords that exost in the Romanian language. 

_Toate fiinţele umane se nasc libere şi egale în demnitate şi în drepturi. Ele sunt înzestrate cu raţiune şi conştiinţă şi trebuie să se comporte unele faţă de altele în spiritul fraternităţii._​ 
 robbie​


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## BlueWolf

Oh, yeah, here I recognize something more. 

But I bet if I heard it instead of reading, it would be harder. For example _ă_ is pronunced very differently from an _a_, isn't it?


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## robbie_SWE

BlueWolf said:


> Oh, yeah, here I recognize something more.
> 
> But I bet if I heard it instead of reading, it would be harder. For example _ă_ is pronunced very differently from an _a_, isn't it?


 
It's pronounced like the English "_a_" like in "_a car_".

ş = like "_scegliere_" 
ţ = lik "_pazzo_"

 robbie


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## Lusitania

I've thought about learning romanian as they are a huge community here. But I'm afraid that it could be a big confusion in my head with so many latin languages: portuguese, spanish, italian. Don't you get it all struggling in your head and in your tongue?

I'm now learning spanish and willing to start learning some italian (as I'm currently working with 3 italians and it would be a golden oportunity to practice and I can already understand almost everything I read) but just with spanish and portuguese it's sometimes dificult to express myself. I mix them up in my head!

Have you experienced this? It could happen with romanian as well?

By the way, the romanians here they speak portuguese perfectly, you can hardly tell that they aren't native portuguese speakers.


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## robbie_SWE

I understand you completely! The languages get mixed up in my head too, but I have a system to separate them from each other (I just stay focused). You just have to stay focused and then you will have no limitations at all!

 robbie


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## beclija

robbie_SWE said:


> Concerning the discussion about Vlachs and other Romanian minorities outside Romania. I don't consider them to be Romanian at all and (I think) neither to they. They have been cut off from Romania for so long, that their languages and cultures have changed significantly. It doesn't surprise me at all that they feel more Serbian, Greek etc. than Romanian.


I would expect that for Vlachs in Greece, Albania, Macedonia etc., but not necessarily from Vlachs in Eastern Serbia (Negotin area) - there has always been a strong connection with Romanians on the other side of the Danube and as far as I know they can easily understand the dialects across the river (though not necessarily standard Romanian). But what they say (to my experience) is: "all Romanians are Vlachs, but not all Vlachs are Romanians".

Concerning types of Romanian: The more educated styles are those avoiding Slavic words, right?


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## robbie_SWE

beclija said:


> Concerning types of Romanian: The more educated styles are those avoiding Slavic words, right?


 
Not necessarily, but more educated people tend to use more advanced words. In the case of the Romanian language, the more advanced words are of Latin origin. 
 
 robbie


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