# Government speech, the ANTI-language



## cuchuflete

Would anyone care to offer examples of governmental declarations, of the sort that leave you scratching your head, wondering why the person used so many words to say so little?

Examples may be in any language.

Here's one from C. Rice, U.S. Secretary of State, from a speech today.

"Now is the time for our diplomacy to put our alliance to work in the service of great goals and great opportunities that stand before us," she said.  

I may be a little thick, but I have no idea what she means!

Here's another, which verges on lucidity:

 "The kind of restrained budget that you can expect to see on Monday should justify continued investor confidence in the federal budget trajectory and the U.S. economy overall," Bolten said. He declined to offer specifics. 

Next, please  

Cuchufléte


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## Jana337

Cuchu, as an economist by training I am possibly biased but your second quote does not leave any doubts in my head as to what the speaker meant

Jana


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## cuchuflete

jz337 said:
			
		

> Cuchu, as an economist by training I am possibly biased but your second quote does not leave any doubts in my head as to what the speaker meant
> 
> Jana


Jana,

Thanks for your insightful comment.


If the statement were made only to those with training in economics...I regret to confess that I am one of those unfortunates, it would be fine.  It could, of course, offend the Keynesians, who might find a 'restrained' budget an impediment to economic growth.  That said, the quoted statement is probably close to meaningless to 99% of the population of any nation.

Do you a good example of something from one of your own governmental officials?

regards,
Cuchu


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Would anyone care to offer examples of governmental declarations, of the sort that leave you scratching your head, wondering why the person used so many words to say so little?
> 
> Examples may be in any language.
> 
> Here's one from C. Rice, U.S. Secretary of State, from a speech today.
> 
> *"Now is the time for our diplomacy to put our alliance to work in the service of great goals and great opportunities that stand before us," she said.  *
> 
> I may be a little thick, but I have no idea what she means!
> 
> Here's another, which verges on lucidity:
> 
> *"The kind of restrained budget that you can expect to see on Monday should justify continued investor confidence in the federal budget trajectory and the U.S. economy overall," Bolten said. * He declined to offer specifics.
> 
> Next, please
> 
> Cuchufléte




*Translation of first statement*: Let's plan the invasion of Iran.

*Translation of second statement*: Our economy is going south. We are soooo screwed! Hopefully some idiot foreigners will believe what I just said and pump some dollars into our economy.


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> *Translation of first statement*: Let's plan the invasion of Iran.
> 
> *Translation of second statement*: Our economy is going south. We are soooo screwed! Hopefully some idiot foreigners will believe what I just said and pump some dollars into our economy.



Hello Vic,
I think you are...no pun intended...dead-on on the first one.
I read the second as, "We will shrink the beast, the stock market will accordingly rise, and as for those earning less than $100k per year, you didn't support the GOP with a check, so...tough break!"

Why, I wonder, don't they just say whatever is was they mean.  This is not partisan.  The Clinton gang was as windy and devoid of content as the current crew.

Do you have some more examples to offer?

thanks,
Cuchu


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## vic_us

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Hello Vic,
> 
> I read the second as, "We will shrink the beast, the stock market will accordingly rise, and as for those earning less than $100k per year, you didn't support the GOP with a check, so...tough break!"
> 
> Why, I wonder, don't they just say whatever is was they mean. This is not partisan. The Clinton gang was as windy and devoid of content as the current crew.
> 
> Do you have some more examples to offer?
> 
> thanks,
> Cuchu



Cuchu, I'm not an economist. I just read stuff on the subject and draw conclusions. This article is kinda old but got my undivided attention, especially the following sentence... 

"The economy won't fall apart because Washington behaved badly for a decade," says Richard Kogan, a budget expert at the CBPP. But "at some point, things collapse."

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1201/p16s01-coop.html


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> Cuchu, I'm not an economist. I just read stuff on the subject and draw conclusions. This article is kinda old but got my undivided attention, especially the following sentence...
> 
> "The economy won't fall apart because Washington behaved badly for a decade," says Richard Kogan, a budget expert at the CBPP. But "at some point, things collapse."
> 
> http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/1201/p16s01-coop.html



Vic....unlike most government statements, I found the CS article to be crisp and clear...
Yet if you look at statements by the Secretary of the Treasury on the same topic, you find mush and buzzwords heaped one on another, with no clear message.

thanks for the link,\
Cuchu


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## Jonegy

Unfortunately it is only "Government Speak".  Business is even using it in the Recruitment field these days.

The following taken from a local 'paper today  :-

The Company wishes to put cluster and sector development activities at the heart of its workforce development programme. The strategic partnership between......... is enabling us to develop an integrated approach to the funding and delivery of skills interventions to address skills issues on such a scale as to have a significant i;mpact within a number of clusters and sectors......... 

.....this carries on for almost a quarter of a page.  Needless to say on looking mosre closely it is for a management job in a QUANGO.

However in the following column they soot themselves beautifully in the foot.

Looking for a Secondary School leaver  (age 16 +)  who can  "  ensure that we have the intelligence we need to make informed decisions and plan effectively"

So there we have it  --  16 year old school leavers  checking that the management are itelligent enough to do their jobs.

Happy Days


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## cuchuflete

Jonegy said:
			
		

> Unfortunately it is only "Government Speak".  Business is even using it in the Recruitment field these days.
> 
> The following taken from a local 'paper today  :-
> 
> The Company wishes to put cluster and sector development activities at the heart of its workforce development programme. The strategic partnership between......... is enabling us to develop an integrated approach to the funding and delivery of skills interventions to address skills issues on such a scale as to have a significant i;mpact within a number of clusters and sectors.........
> 
> .....this carries on for almost a quarter of a page.  Needless to say on looking mosre closely it is for a management job in a QUANGO.
> 
> However in the following column they soot themselves beautifully in the foot.
> 
> Looking for a Secondary School leaver  (age 16 +)  who can  "  ensure that we have the intelligence we need to make informed decisions and plan effectively"
> 
> So there we have it  --  16 year old school leavers  checking that the management are itelligent enough to do their jobs.
> 
> Happy Days



Jonegy-

Thanks for these snippets of balderdash.  As the thread is about communication or lack thereof, I'll take the liberty of making a single glossary entry, and ask that you do one as well.
QUANGO-  [I don't know who coined this acronym, but I first saw it in the Economist about a decade ago.]  Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organization.  I suppose that means the outfit in question uses tax money to some degree, to do something a government wants done, but does not want to do directly, for whatever reason.

Yours to explain:  "School leaver".  Is this a person who has graduated, or what in AE we call a 'dropout'...one who stops going to school before completing a course of study?  Both leave school, hence my ignorance on display.

cheers,
Cuchu

Eschew Obfuscation!


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## saz3tt3

here's a classical in spanish politics, simple, clear, straight to the point, he he he: "España va bien"

sazette.


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## cuchuflete

saz3tt3 said:
			
		

> here's a classical in spanish politics, simple, clear, straight to the point, he he he: "España va bien"
> 
> sazette.



Gracias colega!

Yup...and there is even a Brasilian equivalent.  The Brasilian flag has the motto:  Ordem e progreso, to which is usually added, Brasil, país do futuro!
for the non-Portuguese speaker, that's Order and Progress; Brazil, country of the future.

The general population, in a demonstration of their faith in the politicians, usually mutters, in reponse to the second part..."E sempre vai ser."
 or..."and it alway will be"  thus implying that the future is a moving target, and the country will alway remain at some distance from its potential.

Cuchu


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## vic_us

saz3tt3 said:
			
		

> here's a classical in spanish politics, simple, clear, straight to the point, he he he: "España va bien"
> 
> sazette.



I don't intend to get into a competition to determine what politician came up with the most creative bullshit, but try to top Menem's statement:

_*Estamos mal pero vamos bien.

 We're in bad shape, but we're headed in the right direction.*_


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## saz3tt3

vic_us said:
			
		

> I don't intend to get into a competition to determine what politician came up with the most creative bullshit, but try to top Menem's statement:
> 
> _*Estamos mal pero vamos bien.*_
> 
> _*We're in bad shape, but we're headed in the right direction.*_


 
JAJAJAJAJA!!!!! me rindo!!! nuestro aznarín no es más que un aprendiz!!!!


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## vic_us

vic_us said:
			
		

> *Translation of first statement*: Let's plan the invasion of Iran.
> 
> Cuchu, _yesterday _I made the above remark. The following story was published _today_ on the front page of the Boston Globe.
> 
> *Overseas, Rice urges unity on Iran*
> 
> *Says an attack 'not on the agenda'*
> 
> By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff  |  February 5, 2005
> 
> LONDON -- In her diplomatic debut, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said a US invasion of Iran was ''not on the agenda *at this point*" _(bold and italics mine)_ and called on Europe to show ''unity of purpose" with the United States in opposing Iran's suspected nuclear ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case...


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## cuchuflete

vic_us said:
			
		

> vic_us said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Translation of first statement*: Let's plan the invasion of Iran.
> 
> Cuchu, _yesterday _I made the above remark. The following story was published _today_ on the front page of the Boston Globe.
> 
> *Overseas, Rice urges unity on Iran*
> 
> *Says an attack 'not on the agenda'*
> 
> By Charles M. Sennott, Globe Staff  |  February 5, 2005
> 
> LONDON -- In her diplomatic debut, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said a US invasion of Iran was ''not on the agenda *at this point*" _(bold and italics mine)_ and called on Europe to show ''unity of purpose" with the United States in opposing Iran's suspected nuclear ambitions.
> 
> 
> 
> I rest my case...
> 
> 
> 
> I had read that yesterday, and was therefore quick to agree with you.
> We are being prepared for yet another fiasco, I fear.
Click to expand...


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## Jonegy

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Jonegy-
> 
> Thanks for these snippets of balderdash. As the thread is about communication or lack thereof, I'll take the liberty of making a single glossary entry, and ask that you do one as well.
> QUANGO- [I don't know who coined this acronym, but I first saw it in the Economist about a decade ago.] Quasi-Autonomous Non-Governmental Organization. I suppose that means the outfit in question uses tax money to some degree, to do something a government wants done, but does not want to do directly, for whatever reason.
> 
> Yours to explain: "School leaver". Is this a person who has graduated, or what in AE we call a 'dropout'...one who stops going to school before completing a course of study? Both leave school, hence my ignorance on display.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> 
> Cuchu
> 
> Eschew Obfuscation!


 
In the UK there are basic Certificates of Secondary Education taken at the ages of 15/16.  When a student gains good levels in these they can stay in full-time education and take advanced level certification, usually aged 17/18.
The grades attained in these final examinations then determines the students elegibilty and possible acceptance to a place in university.  -   Sooooo.... - 
the 16+ in the job has only a basic educational standard. (Probably the same as the management who got there by the usual back-stabbing and a***-licking methods.

Espero q ajude

John


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## vachecow

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> I saw it in action when I lived in Philly years ago, and Frank Rizzo set an entire city block on fire very near where I was living at Walnut and 41st, because he didn't like the political beliefs of some residents.


Yes sadly Phily is the farthest from having any 'Brotherly Love" at all......and our politicians extremely coppupt.


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## valerie

An example from France:

L'intérêt de la France passe par la poursuite de la modernisation de notre pays. La meilleure manière de préserver notre modèle social, c'est justement de prendre maintenant les décisions qui s'imposent. Si nous ne le faisons pas dans des domaines aussi essentiels que la Sécurité sociale, les retraites, l'Education, l'organisation du travail... il risque d'être trop tard.

France interest requires us to go on with our country modernisation. The best way to preserve our social model is taking now the unavoidable decisions. If we do not take them in such essentail areas as Social Security, pensions, education, work organisation... It may be too late.

Although I'm not sure this has been said to say nothing. Perhaps saying one thing and the contrary means more than not saying anything at all. Anyway, I'd be glad you correct my English, thanks


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## cuchuflete

valerie said:
			
		

> An example from France:
> 
> L'intérêt de la France passe par la poursuite de la modernisation de notre pays. La meilleure manière de préserver notre modèle social, c'est justement de prendre maintenant les décisions qui s'imposent. Si nous ne le faisons pas dans des domaines aussi essentiels que la Sécurité sociale, les retraites, l'Education, l'organisation du travail... il risque d'être trop tard.
> 
> France*'s* interest requires us to go on with *the pursuit of*our country*'s* modernisation. The best way to preserve our social model is *by* taking now the unavoidable decisions *now*. If we do not take them in such essential areas as Social Security, pensions, education, work organisation... It may be too late.
> 
> Although I'm not sure this has been said to say nothing. Perhaps saying one thing and the contrary means more than not saying anything at all. Anyway, I'd be glad you correct my English, thanks



Thanks Valerie...this is a fine example of many words with little meaning.  I think that all French and American politicians went to the same school to learn to do this.  I've put a few corrections and suggestions into your text.

Now, if only we could translate government double-talk into meaningful language!

un abrazo,
Cuchu


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## valerie

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> _France's interest requires us to go on with the pursuit of our country's modernisation. The best way to preserve our social model is by taking the unavoidable decisions now. If we do not take them in such essential areas as Social Security, pensions, education, work organisation... It may be too late_.
> 
> Now, if only we could translate government double-talk into meaningful language!



We are cutting social security, pension and eduction benefits and we are doing away with the 35 hours law

But this is too easy, the charm of government talk is in translating it in such a manner that it keeps its nonsense flavour in the target language


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## cuchuflete

valerie said:
			
		

> We are cutting social security, pension and eduction benefits and we are doing away with the 35 hours law
> 
> But this is too easy, the charm of government talk is in translating it in such a manner that it keeps its nonsense flavour in the target language



Ah yes, the   charm   of government talk.  It seems more high-sounding and florid in the Romance languages. The sense I get is that the officials believe they are noblemen talking to mere serfs.  In English, at least in the U.S., there is a slightly different approach.  The officials use invented, technical-sounding words, to present an image that they know what they are talking about.  Or they just take simple words, and distort them by adding syllables!

When I was a child,  there were "poor" people.  They have all disappeard!
They were later replaced by 'disadvanteged' people.  I have always wondered what ever happened to the poor, and where the bureaucrats found so many disadvantaged people so suddenly!

saludos,
Cuchu


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## Sev

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> When I was a child, there were "poor" people. They have all disappeard!
> They were later replaced by 'disadvanteged' people. I have always wondered what ever happened to the poor, and where the bureaucrats found so many disadvantaged people so suddenly!


 
Exactly the same for us in France :

No more "noirs", but "gens de couleur"
No more "vieux" but "personnes agées"
No more "femmes de ménage" but "techniciennes de surface" (this one is great!)

And there are million other examples...


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## cuchuflete

Sev said:
			
		

> Exactly the same for us in France :
> 
> No more "noirs", but "gens de couleur"
> No more "vieux" but "personnes agées"
> No more "femmes de ménage" but "techniciennes de surface" (this one is great!)
> 
> And there are million other examples...



Thanks Sev,

Yes, we have had some of the same:
Colored people=>Negroes=>Afro-Americans=>Black people.  I may have the order of the last two reversed....sorry.
Old=>golden agers=>elderly=>???


I didn't 'get' your last one.  My French is very limited...Please explain it when you have a moment.  Thanks,

Cuchu

PD--  When a normal human, a manager, and a government official have a task to accomplish, by some means or other, what do they say?

Human:  Here's how I'll do it.
Manager: The method I will use is...
Burro*crat: The methodology I shall utilize .......

By the time the government official is done talking about it, the human has finished the job, been paid, and had half his wages deducted in taxes to pay the official.


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## Benjy

cuchufléte said:
			
		

> Thanks Sev,
> 
> Yes, we have had some of the same:
> Colored people=>Negroes=>Afro-Americans=>Black people.  I may have the order of the last two reversed....sorry.
> Old=>golden agers=>elderly=>???
> 
> 
> I didn't 'get' your last one.  My French is very limited...Please explain it when you have a moment.  Thanks,
> 
> Cuchu
> 
> PD--  When a normal human, a manager, and a government official have a task to accomplish, by some means or other, what do they say?
> 
> Human:  Here's how I'll do it.
> Manager: The method I will use is...
> Burro*crat: The methodology I shall utilize .......
> 
> By the time the government official is done talking about it, the human has finished the job, been paid, and had half his wages deducted in taxes to pay the official.



femme de menage = cleaner (female, evidently).. so techiciennes de sufaces= "surface" technician


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## cuchuflete

Benjy said:
			
		

> femme de menage = cleaner (female, evidently).. so techiciennes de sufaces= "surface" technician



Hilarios!  thanks.  Reminds me of when the janitors in my elementary school were suddenly "upgraded" to custodians!!!

My friend thought the word was "Custonian" and asked his parents what it meant!  They called the school administration to ask what the new Custonians were, and what they had to do with teaching little children.

Gracias,
Cuchu


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## valerie

Voilà un nouvel exemple, issu du manifeste '35 heures : protestation solennelle des entrepreneurs de France' du Medef 

.... Le MEDEF* est conscient de l'imminence du tournant capital pour l'avenir de l'ordre social en France. Il n'a pas pris l'initiative de créer les circonstances qui y mènent. Si on l'y contraint, il prendra, avec le plein appui de sa base, les décisions nécessaires.

Medef* is aware of the imminence of the vital turning point for the future of social order in France. It did not take the initiative to create the circumstances leading to it. If someone thrust it, it will take the necesary decisions, with the total support of its bases.

* French companies organisation, far right free market lobbist (and very efficient)


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## cuchuflete

valerie said:
			
		

> Voilà un nouvel exemple, issu du manifeste '35 heures : protestation solennelle des entrepreneurs de France' du Medef
> 
> .... Le MEDEF* est conscient de l'imminence du tournant capital pour l'avenir de l'ordre social en France. Il n'a pas pris l'initiative de créer les circonstances qui y mènent. Si on l'y contraint, il prendra, avec le plein appui de sa base, les décisions nécessaires.
> 
> Medef* is aware of the imminence of the vital turning point for the future of social order in France. It did not take the initiative to create the circumstances leading to it. If someone thrust it, it will take the necesary decisions, with the total support of its bases.
> 
> * French companies organisation, far right free market lobbist (and very efficient)



Valerie,
Thank you.  I had to hire a detective agency to find the person who wrote that attrocious drivel.  It took weeks of hard work, but they finally found him at work and took his photo!







abrazos,
Qxu


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