# EN: pour qu'il sache



## petitemarie

Hello everybody,
I have question for "so that".
We say: "....so that he know" or "...so that he knows"
Thank you for your answer,
Marie


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## Trina

"so that he knows" 
_ knows _must agree with _he_
so that they know (_know_ agrees with _they_)

It is really a question of the verb agreeing with the pronoun and not what follows "so that".

I hope that's clear enough.


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## petitemarie

Thank you for your quick answer! 
I was hesitating because after "so that" it's subjonctif and the subjonctif is "he know" no?


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## Trina

Can you give the full sentence?
As far as I am aware you can never say "He know". It is either "he knows" or "he knew"


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## david314

Je pense que c'est une anomalie en anglais. _Ca arrive...For example: I put the keys there, *so that he knows*_ _(+ infinitive) to close/to lock-up when he leaves/is ready (to leave)._ Good luck, my friend


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## Trina

[…]
I still am unable to come up with a sentence where "he know" would be used.
The closest I can think of is, " I put his keys on the counter so that he would know where they were."
But here, _know_ is an infinitive.


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## david314

"he know"* never appear together*, to the best of my knowldegde.  "(so that) he would know" is the correct conditional tense.


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## jefrir

The subjunctive basically doesn't exist in English - the only verb that has it is 'to be', which has the form 'were', but even that isn't always used.


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## Trina

I'm not certain what you mean by this. I think that this may be a bit misleading - especially to people learning English as a second language.
[There are] examples of the subjunctive where the verb "to be" is not used.
The subjunctive mood, in English, is alive and well.


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## broglet

bonjour petitemarie - le subjonctif en anglais est toujours en vie, mais un peu negligé et/ou mal compris par les Anglais. 

Mais c'est vrai qu'il est beaucoup moins utilisé en anglais qu'en francais.

Jefrir thinks it doesn't exist elsewhere than in the verb "to be", but it's important that he know that it can pop up in other surprising places!


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## Ivan_I

I am telling him about it so that he know what has happened. (Before I start telling him he doesn't know what happened. So I want him to know)
I am telling him about it so that he knowS what has happened. (nonsense. I am telling him about what he already knows.)

But maybe such nonsense is OK in practice.


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## Glasguensis

Regardless of how little the subjunctive is used in English, know that it is not used after « so that ».


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## Ivan_I

I hear natives say different things about it.


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## Kelly B

I agree with Glasguensis.

That said, a slightly different phrase _it is important that he know_ is a correct use of the subjunctive in US English, though many of us will avoid it with something like _it is important for him to know _or _he should know._


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## Ivan_I

Well I agree with everyone but don't think my agreeing changes reality. And the reality seems to accept SO THAT HE KNOW, at least, WIKI says about it:

*Use of the present subjunctive*
The main use of the English present subjunctive, called the _mandative_ or _jussive subjunctive_,[1] occurs in _that_ clauses (declarative content clauses; the word _that_ is sometimes omitted in informal and conversational usage) expressing a circumstance that is desired, demanded, recommended, necessary, _vel sim._. Such a clause may be dependent on verbs like _insist_, _suggest_, _demand_, _prefer_,[a]adjectives like _necessary_, _desirable_,* or nouns like recommendation, necessity;[c] it may be part of the expression in order that… (or some formal uses of so that…); it may also stand independently as the subject of a clause or as a predicative expression.*


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## Glasguensis

Unfortunately no example is given and personally I cannot think of one.


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## Kekepop

I agree that that this particular case doesn't call for the subjunctive, but some others do! The only reason most people don't realize the use of the subjunctive in English is just that we tend to avoid it by using other constructions; the subjunctive sounds odd to our ears most of the time. 

It is necessary that- would be followed by the subjunctive, and the 3rd person singular would lose its -s-, but we avoid it all by saying "It is necessary for....+infinitive"


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## Ivan_I

Glasguensis said:


> Unfortunately no example is given and personally I cannot think of one.


I don't think that those who wrote the article on WIKI know the subject worse than you do. Indeed, they don't provide an example, but it doesn't mean such an example can't exist.


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## Glasguensis

Indeed but without the example we can’t explore the limitations of whatever circumstances apply.


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## broglet

I return to this topic after a brief 12 year break to respond to Glasguensis's contributions.  
It is important that he know the key issues here.  Now, what I just said has to be subjunctive to avoid ambiguity.  What I am implying by the use of the subjunctive is that (1) I don't know whether or not he knows and (2) I believe that it is important for him to know.  
As a pedantic user of English I would only have said "It is important that he knows the key issues here" in order to suggest (1) That I think he knows the key issues and (2) I think that his having this knowledge is important.


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## Glasguensis

Note that the question is specifically about “so that he know”, and not any other subjunctive use of the verb “to know”, or about the use of the subjunctive in general.


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## broglet

It can never be "so that he know" but must always be "so that he knows".

This is because "I will do x so that he knows ... " suggests that it will be my doing x that changes him from a state of not knowing to one of knowing. The use of "so that" implies no uncertainty and so the subjunctive would be inappropriate. (I am not entirely happy with this explanation but I'm sure about my conclusion!!)


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