# Although I <planned> to stay only a couple of days, I <have ended up>



## JJXR

Hello to all,

Thanks for reading my post.


*Context:*

John who lives in the US calls Chris who also lives in the US. Chris is currently on vacation in Turkey. John is in the US.

*Sample sentence:*

John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"

Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."

*Question:*

Do the bolded tenses work in the sentence that Chris says?


Thanks a lot for any comments, corrections or suggestions!

Regards,
JJXR


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## PaulQ

John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?" 


JJXR said:


> Do the bolded tenses work in the sentence that Chris says?


Yes.


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## JJXR

Thanks for the response, PaulQ.


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## DonnyB

Had I been Chris I wouldn't have used the simple past "planned".

But I agree with Paul that John's choice of the perfect tense "have you stayed" is wrong.


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## JJXR

Thanks for the response, DonnyB.


DonnyB said:


> Had I been Chris I wouldn't have used the simple past "planned".
> 
> But I agree with Paul that John's choice of the perfect tense "have you stayed" is wrong.


How about the tenses below, are they the right tenses to use in this case:
_
John (on the phone): "How long *have* you *been staying* in Turkey?"

Chris (on the phone): "Although I *was planning* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."_


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## PaulQ

"How long *have* you *been *staying in Turkey?" You don't need and, in fact, idiomatically, would not say "staying in Turkey".


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## JJXR

Thanks for the response, PaulQ.


JJXR said:


> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."





JJXR said:


> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *was planning* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."


Which combination of tenses is most natural in Chris's sentence: "planned" & "have ended up" or "was planning" & "have ended up"?


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## PaulQ

Not much difference really - have a look at durative and punctual verbs and the continuous form of the verb.


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## Edinburgher

DonnyB said:


> Had I been Chris I wouldn't have used the simple past "planned".


Nor I.  I'd have used "Although I *had* planned...".


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## JJXR

Thanks for your responses, Edinburgher and PaulQ.


JJXR said:


> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."


Would it be correct to say that "had planned" is the best choice, and that "was planning" and "planned" are both equal but worse than "had planned"?


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## Montabella

JJXR said:


> Would it be correct to say that "had planned" is the best choice, and that "was planning" and "planned" are both equal but worse than "had planned"?




"Although I had planned..."
"Although I was planning..."
"Although I planned..."

These all carry about the same weight in being correct. I could easily see myself using any 3 of these versions in a conversation.

However "...I (have) ended up staying more than a week." 
To me it would be more natural to say 

"..., I ended up staying for more than a week."
"..., I stayed for more than a week."


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## English Bulldog

JJXR said:


> Hello to all,
> 
> Thanks for reading my post.
> 
> 
> *Context:*
> 
> John who lives in the US calls Chris who also lives in the US. Chris is currently on vacation in Turkey. John is in the US.
> 
> *Sample sentence:*
> 
> John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."
> 
> *Question:*
> 
> Do the bolded tenses work in the sentence that Chris says?
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot for any comments, corrections or suggestions!
> 
> Regards,
> JJXR





> _John (on the phone): "How _*much longer* *are*_ you_* going to stay*_ in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "I _*had*_ planned to stay _*for*_ only a couple of days, _*but*_ I _*will* *end*_ up staying _*for longer*_ than a week."_


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## Edinburgher

Montabella said:


> To me it would be more natural to say
> 
> "..., I ended up staying for more than a week."
> "..., I stayed for more than a week."


Those, particularly the second, would only work after he returned home.  But he is still there.


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## JJXR

Thanks for your responses, Montabella, English Bulldog, and Edinburgher.


JJXR said:


> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *was planning* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."


To Edinburgher and DonnyB: what do you think about the tenses in the quoted sentence, are they OK in your opinion?


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## Edinburgher

See #9.  Only "had planned" works for me here.  "I have ended up" is fine, but would usually be shortened to "I've ended up".


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## JJXR

Thanks Edinburgher.


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## English Bulldog

English Bulldog said:


> _John (on the phone): "How _*much longer* *are*_ you_* going to stay*_ in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "I _*had*_ planned to stay _*for*_ only a couple of days, _*but*_ I _*will* *end*_ up staying _*for longer*_ than a week."_



_



			I *had* planned to stay *for* only a couple of days, *but* I *will* *end* up staying *for longer* than a week.
		
Click to expand...

_
This highlights the fact Chris had made plans to stay for only a couple of days in Turkey before realising two days wouldn't be enough. The simple past continuous tense does not highlight such a fact as properly as the past perfect simple tense. This is the difference between 'had planned' and 'was planning'.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> See #9.  Only "had planned" works for me here.  "I have ended up" is fine, but would usually be shortened to "I've ended up".




I'm afraid "_I have ended up_" is not '_fine_', because of the given context.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> because of the given context.


"The given context" is a situation, not a reason.  Can you explain your actual reason?

The present perfect seems eminently suitable here, because of the direct immediate relevance to his still being there.
On the other hand, perhaps your objection isn't to the verb form, but to the verb "ending up" itself, on the basis that nothing has actually ended yet.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> "The given context" is a situation, not a reason.  Can you explain your actual reason?





> _John who lives in the US calls Chris who also lives in the US. *Chris is currently on vacation in Turkey*. John is in the US._


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## Edinburgher

You have just repeated the situation.  There is no disagreement about that.  Chris is on holiday in Turkey, and is saying this more than a week since he arrived there.
It's still not clear what part of "I have ended up staying more than a week" you are objecting to (the ending up itself or the present perfect "have ended up").


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> It's still not clear what part of "I have ended up staying more than a week" you are objecting to (the ending up itself or the present perfect "have ended up").





> *Context:*
> 
> John who lives in the US calls Chris who also lives in the US. Chris is currently on vacation in Turkey. John is in the US.
> 
> *Sample sentence:*
> 
> John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."



Chris is still there, so he'd not say: "I have ended up staying more than a week [sic]", Edinburgher. Otherwise, that would mean he'd have already gone back to the US, so he'd just be telling someone that, even though he had planned to stay in Turkey for only a couple of days, he ended up staying there for more than a week, as two days weren't enough for him to do whatever he wanted to.

I do hope you can understand now why "I have ended up" is *not* 'fine'.


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## DonnyB

JJXR said:


> To Edinburgher and DonnyB: what do you think about the tenses in the quoted sentence, are they OK in your opinion?


I don't have any real objection in BE to Chris using "I've ended up staying more than a week" in that sentence to describe the alteration to what he'd originally been planning to do.

It doesn't work for me with the simple past as "I ended up staying more than a week" which I think does imply that he's no longer still there.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> I do hope you can understand now why "I have ended up" is *not* 'fine'.


If I understand you correctly, you would also object to "I ended up staying" (without "have").

I don't share your objection, because the "ending up" doesn't really refer to the end of his stay, but to the end of the circumstances that led to his visit being extended beyond its anticipated few days.  Therefore it is not necessary for him to have returned to the US before saying this.  I'm with Donny: Chris could only say "I ended up staying" (without "have") after his return, when the whole episode is in the past.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> If I understand you correctly, you would also object to "I ended up staying" (without "have").



I would, yes.



> the "ending up" doesn't really refer to the end of his stay



It does, I'm afraid.


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## English Bulldog

DonnyB said:


> I don't have any real objection in BE to Chris using "I've ended up staying more than a week" in that sentence to describe the alteration to what he'd originally been planning to do.



If you rang me from Turkey, DonnyB, to tell me that, even though you had planned to stay there for only a couple of days, you will end up staying for longer because two days won't be enough time for you to do whatever you went there to do, would you tell me:

A) Bulldog, I've ended up staying more than a week.
or
B) Bulldog, I'll end up staying for longer than a week.

?


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> It does, I'm afraid.


Not so.  "I ended up doing X" simply means that my doing X was the result of something.  It doesn't mean that I have to have finished doing X.


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## DonnyB

English Bulldog said:


> If you rang me from Turkey, DonnyB, to tell me that, even though you had planned to stay there for only a couple of days, you will end up staying for longer because two days won't be enough time for you to do whatever you went there to do, would you tell me:
> 
> A) Bulldog, I've ended up staying more than a week.
> or
> B) Bulldog, I'll end up staying for longer than a week.
> 
> ?


To me, the perfect tense "I've ended up staying more than a week" means I've been there more than a week _already_: the future tense "I'll end up staying more than a week" means I'm going to be there more than a week _altogether_ (it says nothing about how long I've been there _now_).


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## English Bulldog

DonnyB said:


> To me, the perfect tense "I've ended up staying more than a week" means I've been there more than a week _already_



Exactly.



> the future tense "I'll end up staying more than a week" means I'm going to be there more than a week _altogether_



Exactly.



> (it says nothing about how long I've been there _now_).



No-one has said otherwise.



> If you rang me from Turkey, DonnyB, to tell me that, even though you had planned to stay there for only a couple of days, you will end up staying for longer because two days won't be enough time for you to do whatever you went there to do, would you tell me:
> 
> A) Bulldog, I've ended up staying more than a week.
> or
> B) Bulldog, I'll end up staying for longer than a week.
> 
> ?



Now, can you answer me, please?


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> "I ended up doing X" simply means that my doing X was the result of something.  It doesn't mean that I have to have finished doing X.



No-one has said otherwise.


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## DonnyB

English Bulldog said:


> Now, can you answer me, please?


Sorry: I thought that was self-evident from my analysis of the tenses in post #29.  I'd use (A) if I'd already been there a week, and (B) if I'd only been there a few days but was planning to stay more than a week.


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## English Bulldog

> *Context:*
> 
> John who lives in the US calls Chris who also lives in the US. Chris is currently on vacation in Turkey. John is in the US.
> 
> *Sample sentence:*
> 
> John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."





DonnyB said:


> I'd already been there a week, and (B) if I'd only been there a few days but was planning to stay more than a week.



You do agree with me, then. Chris would *not* use (A).


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## DonnyB

English Bulldog said:


> You do agree with me, then. Chris would *not* use (A).


Huh? 

The original context is that John phones up and asks Chris how long he's been in Turkey for, and Chris replies that he'd originally planned to just stop a couple of days, but he's _already_ been there a week.  That's (A).


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> No-one has said otherwise.


Yes, you have.  In #25 you said the "ending up" refers to the end of the stay, i.e. the X has finished.


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## English Bulldog

DonnyB said:


> The original context is that John phones up and asks Chris how long he's been in Turkey for, and Chris replies that he'd originally planned to just stop a couple of days, but he's _already_ been there a week.



I really don't think that's what JJXR meant. I think he meant this:



> _John (on the phone): "How _*much longer* *are*_ you_* going to stay*_ in Turkey?"
> Chris (on the phone): "I _*had*_ planned to stay _*for*_ only a couple of days, _*but*_ I _*will* *end*_ up staying _*for longer*_ than a week."_



I may well be wrong about this, but I don't think so. I think that, if he meant what you've just said, he'd have written this:



> John (on the phone): "How long have you *been* in Turkey?"



He didn't write that, though. He wrote this:



> John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"



That's why I do assume he meant this:



> _John (on the phone): "How _*much longer* *are*_ you_* going to stay*_ in Turkey?"_



Let's wait for his reply.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> Yes, you have.  In #25 you said the "ending up" refers to the end of the stay, i.e. the X has finished.



Do not take my words out of context, please.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> Do not take my words out of context, please.


I've no idea what you mean.  I thought we were discussing the context given by the OP.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> I've no idea what you mean.  I thought we were discussing the context given by the OP.




The given context is not clear. Do read the replay #35, please.

In the replay #25 I did *not* mean that 'I ended up doing X' means that I have to have finished doing X.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> In the replay #25 I did *not* mean that 'I ended up doing X' means that I have to have finished doing X.


Then what *did* you mean when you said that the ending up referred to the end of his stay?  In the context  given, it was crystal clear that the stay had not yet ended.  He was still there, on the phone to his friend.

There is also, incidentally, no reason whatever to "assume" (as you did in #35) that by saying "how long have you stayed" John meant "how long will you stay".


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> Then what *did* you mean when you said that the ending up referred to the end of his stay?



I meant that it's not clear what the OP meant, as he wrote this:



> John (on the phone): "How long have you stayed in Turkey?"



Which contradicts the context given by the OP.

This is why, in the replay #25,  I said this:



English Bulldog said:


> the "ending up" doesn't really refer to the end of his stay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It does, *I'm afraid*.
Click to expand...




> In the context  given, it was crystal clear that the stay had not yet ended.  He was still there, on the phone to his friend.



I do agree.




> There is also, incidentally, no reason whatever to "assume" (as you did in #35) that by saying "how long have you stayed" John meant "how long will you stay".



There is, yes. I can assume John meant 'How much longer are you going to stay in Turkey?' as well as you can assume he meant 'How long have you been in Turkey', as the context given by the OP *does* contradict Jhon's original question, and vice versa.


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## JJXR

Thanks a lot to everyone for their responses.


English Bulldog said:


> Let's wait for his reply.


This is what I meant: Chris is now in Turkey, and John is asking Chris how long he (Chris) has been there:

_John (on the phone): "How long* have* you *been* in Turkey?"

Chris (on the phone): "Although I *had planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."_

I used the present perfect "have ended up" for the reason given by Edinburgher in post #19:


Edinburgher said:


> The present perfect seems eminently suitable here, because of the direct immediate relevance to his still being there.


Do you agree with this:

_John (not on the phone): "How long* were* you in Turkey?"

Chris (not on the phone): "Although I *had planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *ended up* staying more than a week."
_
The bolded tenses would imply, for example, that Chris was on vacation in Turkey two weeks ago and is now back home. John has met Chris and is talking to him in person (not on the phone).


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## English Bulldog

JJXR said:


> This is what I meant: Chris is now in Turkey, and John is asking Chris how long he (Chris) has been there:
> 
> _John (on the phone): "How long* have* you *been* in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (on the phone): "Although I *had planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *have ended up* staying more than a week."_



Okay. Thank you for clarifying that.



JJXR said:


> I used the present perfect "have ended up" for the reason given by Edinburgher in post #19



Edinburgher gives no explanation for why you used the present perfect tense with the verb 'stay' in 'How long have you stayed in Turkey?', which is what caused the mess for contradicting the content you give us. As a matter of fact, I don't think even Edinburgher knows why you did that. By the way, I've just seen Montabella hadn't understood that either.



JJXR said:


> Do you agree with this:
> 
> _John (not on the phone): "How long* were* you in Turkey?"
> 
> Chris (not on the phone): "Although I *had planned* to stay only a couple of days, I *ended up* staying more than a week."
> _
> The bolded tenses would imply, for example, that Chris was on vacation in Turkey two weeks ago and is now back home. John has met Chris and is talking to him in person (not on the phone).



Yes, both lines are correct.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> Edinburgher gives no explanation for why you used the present perfect tense with the verb 'stay' in 'How long have you stayed in Turkey?'


I saw no need to comment on "how long have you stayed".  It was simply a mistake, as Paul pointed out in #2.


English Bulldog said:


> Although Chris' line is all right, the present perfect tense has to be used in John's: "How long were *have* you *been/stayed* in Turkey?".


Right, except that only "have you been" fits the context where Chris is still there.  I'd more likely use "have you stayed" (or alternatively "were you") after the stay had been completed.
The complication is that "have you been" suits both contexts, but is the only option (of those mentioned) that fits the given context.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> I'd more likely use "have you stayed" (or alternatively "were you") after the stay had been completed.



I'd use only the simple past there ('were you'), actually. I'd not use the present perfect in that context ('have you stayed'). (I hadn't seen he gave us another context.)


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## JJXR

Thanks for the responses, Edinburgher and English Bulldog.


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## Edinburgher

English Bulldog said:


> I'd not use the present perfect in that context ('have you stayed').


I agree ("did you stay" rather than "have you stayed").  My point was the choice of verb, and I forgot to adjust the type of past tense.  I meant that "stay" doesn't fit well when he's still there.


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## English Bulldog

Edinburgher said:


> I meant that "stay" doesn't fit well when he's still there.


 It does with the present perfect continuous tense, but I do agree that 'be' with the present perfect simple tense sounds better.


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