# Can the accretion of blue giants onto black dwarfs result in supernova explosion?



## jbionic2010

Hi there,

My uncle reads astrophysics at Yale. He says every year a Russian student asks him the same question,  which makes all other Russian students explode in laughter. 

Is there anything lost in translation perhaps?


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## Awwal12

Must be related to "blue" (specifically, light blue/bluish cyan, голубо́й) = "homosexual". There are no "black dwarfs" in astronomy, of course, so one must mean, quite literally, black dwarfs. Overall it must be percieved as a kind of joke about absurd political correctness, I suppose.


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## Şafak

This is another phrase with a sexual innuendo. Blue giants = homosexual giants / huge guys, black dwarfs = literally black dwarfs, supernova explosion = orgasm.

There’s nothing funny about the phrase even if you understand the sexual meaning. I don’t think Russian students ask this every year, I don’t think they ask this at all and I don’t think they start laughing afterwards. The funny part is supposed to be “supernova explosion” (orgasm) and “blue” (homosexual). Well, I can’t imagine anyone over 10 laughing  at the phrase.

Where do you get these phrases from?


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## Tower of Babel

Почему голубой цвет связанный с гомосексуальностью?  Кто-нибудь знает этимологию?
I don't know of any other culture that makes this association.


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## Awwal12

Tower of Babel said:


> Почему голубой цвет связанный с гомосексуальностью?


"Связанный" in the meaning "connected" takes only short forms in predicative constructions.
There are only guesses, as far as I know. May be related to "голубок" or to the expression "голубая кровь". It seems to first appear in the corpus in the 1980s (Dovlatov), where it's already claimed to be old.


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## Tower of Babel

Awwal12 said:


> "Связанный" in the meaning "connected" takes only short forms in predicative constructions.


Thank you for the correction @Awwal12 

It seems that the connection must be related to something that is unique to Russian language or culture, else this connection would exist in other cultures as well.  "Blue blood" is known in other cultures (including English-speaking cultures), so I would tend to favor the "голубок" explanation.


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## GCRaistlin

Şafak said:


> I can’t imagine anyone over 10 laughing at the phrase.


Да нет, похоже на правду. Обострение дискуссии вокруг этого вопроса у нас и на Западе (в перпендикулярных, так сказать, плоскостях) стимулирует нездоровую реакцию на слово "голубой" даже у взрослых - что уж говорить про толпу молодых.
Я впервые услышал это слово в таком значении - в разговоре - в конце 80-х.


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## Vovan

GCRaistlin said:


> Да нет, похоже на правду.


Вроде *jbionic *довольно четко указал, что речь конкретно о его дяде, который каждый год читает курс по астрофизике на каком-то курсе (т.е. _разным _потокам студентов). В порядке прикола/традиции, наслушавшись старшекурсников, какой-то студент обязательно задает тот самый вопрос, просто чтобы смутить дядьку и вызвать всеобщий (среди русскоязычных) смех.


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## Şafak

Vovan said:


> Вроде *jbionic *довольно четко указал, что речь конкретно о его дяде, который каждый год читает курс по астрофизике на каком-то курсе (т.е. _разным _потокам студентов). В порядке прикола/традиции, наслушавшись старшекурсников, какой-то студент обязательно задает тот самый вопрос, просто чтобы смутить дядьку и вызвать всеобщий (среди русскоязычных) смех.


Sounds legit.


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## Vovan

Awwal12 said:


> There are no "black dwarfs" in astronomy, of course,


There _are_, actually: Black dwarf - Wikipedia.


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## GCRaistlin

*Vovan*, это не отменяет того факта, что любое упоминание слова "голубой", тем более в сочетании со словом "гигант", нынче может вызвать смех среди русскоговорящих.


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## Vovan

*GRaistlin*, конечно, без _голубого гиганта_ не было бы (сомнительной) шутки. Однако представлять себе, что аудитория курса "Астрофизика" в Йельском университете такова, что смеялась бы лишь при одном упоминании этого термина, на мой взгляд, ошибочно. 

Прикол здесь в другом - в попытках спровоцировать преподавателя порассуждать на заданную тему в ожидании, что он, сам того не ведая (не зная русского языка), выдаст что-то до чертиков забавное. (В 90-е у меня был приятель, получавший вполне обстоятельные ответы-рассуждения на вопрос "Не подскажете, где здесь отдел куннилингуса?" в коридорах одного местного завода. Ему было лет 15 тогда.)


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## GCRaistlin

Vovan said:


> аудитория курса "Астрофизика" в Йельском университете


... не выпускает смартфона из рук, как и вся нынешняя молодёжь, за редким исключением. Это определяет уровень развития, ценности и культуру. А набирать-то в университет надо. Как говорил товарищ Сталин, других писателей у меня для вас нет!


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## MIDAV

Мне кажется, _голубой _в значении _гей _уже прилично устарело. То есть, для молодежи это слово практически не существует. Над чем мог быть смех в молодежной аудитории – не ясно. Видимо, тупо над бесконечным повторением одной и той же шутки.


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## Şafak

MIDAV said:


> _голубой _в значении _гей _уже прилично устарело. То есть, для молодежи это слово практически не существует. Над чем мог быть смех в молодежной аудитории – не ясно.


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## GCRaistlin

MIDAV said:


> Мне кажется, _голубой _в значении _гей _уже прилично устарело. То есть, для молодежи это слово практически не существует.


Вам кажется неправильно. Только что поинтересовался у молодежи.


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## Şafak

Если интересует мнение молодежи: я не употребляю слово голубой вообще. Я говорю или "гей", или более грубые синонимы. 

Москва.
До 25 лет.


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## GCRaistlin

Ну, какая же вы молодёжь. Я у 13-летнего интересовался. И опять же: "не употребляю" не означает "не вызывает ассоциаций". Сверстники, по его словам, тоже не употребляют этого слова (за исключением девочек), но реакцию оно вызывает стабильную.


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## jbionic2010

Şafak said:


> Well, I can’t imagine anyone over 10 laughing at the phrase.



Well, even 10 y.o. sometimes could be asked hard questions: 

_*Mod.: Video link deleted.
<...>*_

But I do appreciate your feedback on that


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## michaill

jbionic2010 said:


> Well, even 10 y.o. sometimes could be asked hard questions:


_*Mod.: Video link deleted.
<...>*_
But those days are long gone.


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## jbionic2010

Tower of Babel said:


> It seems that the connection must be related to something that is unique to Russian language or culture



_*Mod.: Video link deleted.*_
_*<...>*_


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## Awwal12

Seems purely coincidental. As far as I know, "blue oyster" used to be a slang term for the glans penis (with no specific homosexual connotations). In the Russian version the name of the bar was translated as "Голубая устрица", but the use of "голубой" here is dictated exactly by the attempt to make it sound perverted (cf. the famous provocative pro-homosexual song "Голубая луна" from the 1990s); attempts to accurately translate the original idiom word-by-word would produce "Синяя устрица", which sounds strange but generally much more unremarkable. Note that "голубой" for "homosexual" likely had been being used for decades before the release of the Police Academy.


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## Tower of Babel

@jbionic2010 Are you presenting that clip as evidence of a connection between the color blue and gays in America?

I haven't seen the Police Academy movies, so I don't know if color is even being used symbolically there.  However, there is a long-standing and well-established connection between the police and the color blue in the United States.  For example, that connection is used in the title of the movie "The Thin Blue Line," and in the name of the "Blue Lives Matter" movement.  I don't know of any such connection between blue and gays in the United States.


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## jbionic2010

Awwal12 said:


> Seems purely coincidental. As far as I know, "blue oyster" used to be a slang term for the glans penis (with no specific homosexual connotations). In the Russian version the name of the bar was translated as "Голубая устрица", but the use of "голубой" here is dictated exactly by the attempt to make it sound perverted (cf. the famous provocative pro-homosexual song "Голубая луна" from the 1990s); attempts to accurately translate the original idiom word-by-word would produce "Синяя устрица", which sounds strange but generally much more unremarkable. Note that "голубой" for "homosexual" likely had been being used for decades before the release of the Police Academy.


Well, if you ask me, I'd assume the association may have taken its origin from the facts highlighted in the following article about Romanov family
В династии Романовых были геи? Разбираемся в биографии всех кандидатов
and from the famous painting by Repin, the _Ceremonial Meeting of State Council_, showing the blue-laced tsar Nicholas and his peers 




Tower of Babel said:


> I haven't seen the Police Academy movies


 Me neither actually ) 
Purple is the colour of toga of Roman emperors, of whom many were known to be homosexual (incl. Hadrian etc). Should Romanov be sitted at that table with purple lace across his chest, then who knows what association would have been commonly accepted in Russia today ..


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## Awwal12

jbionic2010 said:


> В династии Романовых были геи? Разбираемся в биографии всех кандидатов


Come on, it's rather recent hype-oriented "theories". Suffice it to say, nothing of that sort ever appeared in Bolshevik propaganda (and, mind you, homosexualism was criminalized in the USSR since 1934). The last Romanovs were accused of basically everything but homosexuality.


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## jbionic2010

Awwal12 said:


> Come on, it's rather recent hype-oriented "theories". Suffice it to say, nothing of that sort ever appeared in Bolshevik propaganda (and, mind you, homosexualism was criminalized in the USSR since 1934). The last Romanovs were accused of basically everything but homosexuality.



Well, it is not so much about whether the facts about Romanov are true or false  (propaganda wouldn't care anyway, it ruined too many lives to care about anything), it is more about what gossips are talked about behind someone's back.

The below article from a more high-profile Russian journal gives some retrospective about what sexual life was like
back in tsarist Russia:  «Непотребный обычай в великом употреблении»
but it still misses quite a few pictures about Russian pervert landlords fighting boredom with their male serfs, which supposedly
was more like the following and even far beyond
_*Mod.: Video link deleted.
<...>*_

PS Btw since Şafak is around, perhaps he could also share some views about landlords in Turkey and their color


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## Awwal12

jbionic2010 said:


> Well, it is not so much about whether the facts about Romanov are true or false (propaganda wouldn't care anyway, it ruined too many lives to care about anything), it is more about what gossips are talked about behind someone's back.


Point is, if there were gossips back then or immediately later, they would've been quickly weaponized. But they weren't.


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## jbionic2010

Awwal12 said:


> Point is, if there were gossips back then or immediately later, they would've been quickly weaponized. But they weren't.



 Weaponized by who? Secret police securing the meetings? Newspapers in tsarist Russia? Foreign media where the same issue for nobility existed?

As for "quickly" the below attachment sheds some light on how this used to work back then

Things are usually solved in a simpler way. There is no need to weaponize anything once the protagonists of the story are dumped in a ditch with throats cut open.


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## Awwal12

jbionic2010 said:


> Weaponized by who? Secret police securing the meetings? Newspapers in tsarist Russia?


Progressive intelligentsia and early Bolsheviks, obviously enough. Basically the same people who nicknamed Nicholas II "the Bloody", wrote insulting poems during his reign (sic) and so on.

And yes, the ruling family or the Tsarist regime in general weren't actually associated with any particular color.


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