# la realtà italiana



## la rossa

Ciao a tutti,

Can someone help me with this sentence? It is from the technical bid of a company - 

"L'azienda opera secondo standard di qualità elevati rispetto alla realtà italiana".
"The company operates according to the high standards...?"

'Reality' doesn't make sense in this context, and I was wondering if there is a less obvious possible translation.

Grazie.


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## Paulfromitaly

Are you sure reality is wrong?

grande realtà internazionale
realtà economiche
la società rappresenta una realtà consolidata
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=167425promozione di realtà territoriali


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## la rossa

It just doesn't make sense to me in the context. I'll think about it...

Grazie.


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## brian

Paul, you'll notice that in none of those 4 threads is "realtà" translated to "reality." (In fact, in the second one the poster even says how "reality" means something different in English.)

I agree too that it sounds kind of funny here. Could you maybe explain what "realtà" means in this context?

_The company works according to standards that are (quite) high compared to (the) Italian _[what?]_._


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## rafanadal

*C*urrent standard?


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## la rossa

I can understand that in some contexts (e.g. 'grande realtà internazionale'), 'realtà' could be translated as something like 'presence' but that doesn't seem to fit here. 

And I'm really struggling!

You got there just before me, rafanadal!

Maybe, "The company operates according to the high Italian standards" ?


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## Paulfromitaly

brian8733 said:


> Paul, you'll notice that in none of those 4 threads is "realtà" translated to "reality." (In fact, in the second one the poster even says how "reality" means something different in English.)
> 
> I agree too that it sounds kind of funny here. Could you maybe explain what "realtà" means in this context?
> 
> _The company works according to standards that are (quite) high compared to (the) Italian _[what?]_._


Well..in the second one (realtà economiche)  Jana, who's got a great background in economics, suggested "economic reality" 
Here realtà means situation, set-up, world.


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## rafanadal

Si. Il problema è che subito dopo aver postato mi sono reso conto della ripetizione di standard. Che però tu hai risolto brillantemente.


Sorry sorry c'è stato un po' di IM


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## london calling

Hello!
We do use it in this context, but you could get round it, if you don't like it. A rather loose translation could be something like:

_The firm has higher quality standards than is usual/is average in Italian companies._

_The firm's quality standards are high compared to average levels in Italy._


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## brian

Paulfromitaly said:


> Well..in the second one (realtà economiche)  Jana, who's got a great background in economics, suggested "economic reality"


Well, I sort of dismissed that because she's non-native (she'll kill me if she sees this ) and (more importantly) because the user did not provide context. Of course in a more general sense we _do_ use reality, for example, "Today the economic reality in the U.S. has become.. blah blah blah." But given its use in the other threads, I figured it probably has a more technical meaning.



			
				Paulfromitaly said:
			
		

> Here realtà means situation, set-up, world.


Perhaps you could still use "reality" then if we really _are_ talking in general terms, like I said above, but you'd have to reword the sentence a bit. So:



> L'azienda opera secondo standard di qualità elevati rispetto alla realtà italiana


_The company operates according to quality standards that are (quite) high when compared with the reality (of standards) in Italy.

_Still sounds stilted though. More natural, and using rafanadal's suggestion:

_The company operates according to standards of quality that are quite high compared with the current standards in Italy._

Edit: oh I like lc's second suggestion.  But notice that it sounds more natural for us to say "in Italy."


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## la rossa

Grazie mille a tutti!


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## Einstein

I have to say that this word "realtà" drives me crazy. In English "reality" is basically the opposite of "fantasy" and means little else. You could talk of "economic reality" meaning the real economic situation (and not the theoretical one), but in Italian "realtà economica" means something else. Very often you have to omit it:
La realtà economica lombarda = the Lombard economy, the economy in Lombardy.

It means that particular piece of "reality". "Situation" is not really correct here, because it seems to mean the situation at this moment, while "realtà" is more of a geographical reference (in this case).


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## rafanadal

C'è un termine in voga, un po' colloquiale, che molti usano, ma in questo caso non va tanto bene. STATO DELL'ARTE.
Certamente non va bene nell'esempio in oggetto, però si riferisce al punto della situazione, all'aggiornamento su una situazione in essere.
Ok, very colloquial.


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## london calling

rafanadal said:


> C'è un termine in voga, un po' colloquiale, che molti usano, ma in questo caso non va tanto bene. STATO DELL'ARTE.
> Certamente non va bene nell'esempio in oggetto, però si riferisce al punto della situazione, all'aggiornamento su una situazione in essere.
> Ok, very colloquial.


In English it's exactly the same - state of the art! (Did we coin it or did you?)

Comunque, hai ragione, qui non va bene!


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## rubuk

And what if we try this: "Realtà economica italiana" = "Italian economic environment"?

Or: "Realtà tecnologica italiana" = "Italian technological environment"?

And so on...


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## jepsonclough

How about saying _realities _rather than _reality_?  The phrase "_economic realities_" is very widely used to describe the real economic environment or context as opposed to "_economic reality_" which seems to be more seen in phrases like "_facing up to economic reality_".  So maybe "_Italian realitie_s" would work.


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## Einstein

Well, JC, I've just googled "economic realities" and in the first three pages of results the only case where it's used in the sense we're talking about is a translation from Italian. All the others use the expression as in your singular example: "facing up to economic realities"; "economic realities drive people to vote for Obama" etc. So I don't think that's a solution.


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## jepsonclough

You're probably right Einstein but looking through the thread again, I think the answer is something like "high quality by Italian standards" although that does carry an implication that Italian standards are low which may or may not be what was intended.


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## rafanadal

london calling said:


> In English it's exactly the same - state of the art! (Did we coin it or did you?)
> 
> I have a feeling you guys did, LC.


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## jepsonclough

Yes I think we can claim this one.  apparently it was originally _status of the art _in the late 19th century.  There's an article here.


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## GavinW

Einstein said:


> I have to say that this word "realtà" drives me crazy...  Very often you have to omit it...


 
Exactly. For the reasons you describe so well. 

One often finds problems in rigorously translating every single word. Language is more fluid and flexible than that. Unless one has some heavy boss breathing down one's neck, ready to pounce on every perceived "mistake", it is usually best to translate all of the _meaning_ contained in a sentence rather than religiously demonstrate that _every word_ in the source language is accounted for (all present and correct...) in the target language.

Old translator's tip? Lazy short-cut? Glib non-answer? No, believe it or not there are book and books on stuff like "functional translations". (And thereby hangs many a tale...)

So you have to translate "realta'", and be seen to be doing so? Fine, say "situation" or "entity" (depending on context). Those two will serve in 85% of cases. But best of all, cut loose, lay aside the dictionary, and say something that people actually say in similar situations in English. As LC, for one, so clearly argued.


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## jepsonclough

Excellent Gavin!  Worthy of being a sticky.


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## underhouse

Having said that I agree with Einstein and Gavin, in this very specific case "realtà" could be translated with "industry" in my opinion (if we really want to force us into translating it):

_....compared to industry standards in Italy._


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## la rossa

This has turned into the longest thread I've seen yet! Thank you all, it's been very useful for me.


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## Simy

Hello everybody!
Hope my answer can still be of help!
 I found out this year at university that what in Italian we refer to as "realtà", meaning "situation" and not the opposite of "irreality"corresponds to PLAYER in English. It sounds a bit odd for us, but my English teacher says it's the correct match with that meaning.

Bye bye!


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## danielpsico

Un attento osservatore della realtà giovanile= a careful observer of the world of the young

I thought I could translate it in this way, and you won't believe me, but I found this sentence in my great English-Italian dictionary! I was lucky.


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## Einstein

The problem with dictionaries or internet translations is that the English version (in this case) is always an attempt, good or bad, to translate from the Italian and not necessarily what a native English-speaker, without reference to another language, would say.
I think "world of the young" might be acceptable but I'm not sure that I'd have thought of it spontaneously. I've just googled *"realtà giovanile" "world of the young"* together and got no results. Googling only *"world of the young"* I found 2,590 hits, but many examples come from song or book titles or have "young" followed by a noun ("the world of the young disabled"). Still, I found a certain number that could be used in the same way as "realtà giovanile", so the author of your dictionary is not alone.


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## london calling

I agree Einstein, it looked strange to me when I read it and I thought: Would I say that? the answer was No, I wouldn't.... It is of course perfectly comprehensible.

Have a look at this. That to me sounds a more natural way of expressing _la realtà giovanile_. What do you think, Einstein?


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## Einstein

Hi LC, what are you actually suggesting as a translation? (sorry, I'm a bit _tonto_ this afternoon!). Young people's life experiences?


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## london calling

Einstein said:


> Hi LC, what are you actually suggesting as a translation? (sorry, I'm a bit _tonto_ this afternoon!). Young people's life experiences?


_Young people's real life (experiences)._ However, here maybe this sounds better:

_A careful observer of the way young people really live (their lives)_

But I'm getting confused as well, now...


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## Einstein

london calling said:


> _Young people's real life (experiences)._ However, here maybe this sounds better:
> 
> _A careful observer of the way young people really live (their lives)_
> 
> But I'm getting confused as well, now...


OK, but what about
_A careful observer of youth._
_A careul observer of young people._

This is going to get shorter and shorter! Brevity is the soul of wit (la brevità è l'anima dell'ingegno) - Shakespeare


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## london calling

Einstein said:


> OK, but what about
> _A careful observer of youth._
> _A careul observer of young people._
> 
> This is going to get shorter and shorter! Brevity is the soul of wit (la brevità è l'anima dell'ingegno) - Shakespeare


True!
I prefer the first one.


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