# Obesity in America



## mzsweeett

I recently read an article on how the obese view themselves and the public (that views them).   

I am not asking for criticism of those who are obese. I do not want to hear that you think fat people are lazy, ignorant, or whatever. I am asking for your views on the medical profession's take on obesity and health; your views on the food industry... how it has changed to make food more healthy/unhealthy. Do you think there could be a way to change this trend??

I am asking for relevant information.  I am attaching an article that spawned my interest in this subject.  

I personally think that if you eat unhealthy then you will be unhealthy. Some people are large from the start... others not. I have seen heavy people endure more than thin people. So, I want this discussion to deal with the perception of obestiy as its viewed by the above mentioned or any others if they are relevent.

Thanks,

Sweet T.

http://www.slate.com/id/2128999/?GT1=7407


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## Vanda

> I personally think that if you eat unhealthy then you will be unhealthy. Some people are large from the start... others not. I have seen heavy people endure more than thin people. So, I want this discussion to deal with the perception of obestiy as its viewed by the above mentioned or any others if they are relevent.


 
Interesting, some time ago we discussed a related issue to this
problem on this thread
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=52838&highlight=junk+food that deals with one aspect of this problem.

Besides the unhealthy food people prefer nowadays what gives us
some concern is the amount of this type of food they eat,
those huge bags of pop corn, chips and so on.

I have spotted here and there some reversing trends as things
are getting worse for public health. The newest slow food, some
parents worried about their children food at school... Very little 
movement I agree , but I'd like to believe this will grow as people
gets sicker - because of this misuse or superuse of food -
and some others are better informed and concerned about their
- figure in some cases - health. 

Obs.: Although I'm not from the America you've pointed out, I think
we're having the same problems everywhere, so my point of view (above)
is in reference to my country.


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## helen333

Obesity in America across gender, age, and ethnic groups is a hot research topic for all disciplines besides the medical community currently.  A number of interesting books have brooched this subject particularly within the framework of the industrialization of agriculture and the decline of food quality to satisfy food quantity demands, These include 'Fat Land - G. Critser', 'FAst Food Nation - E. Schlosser', 'Food Politics - M. Nestle', and 'How we eat: appetite.... L. Rappoport" 

What this means is while the agricultural industry works to make sure all Americans have the huge selection of foods  in their supermarkets for purchase all year long available at low prices, longer shelf life, and relative food safety that this may very well come at the cost of the decline of food quality including food nutritional value/content.  Meaning you need to eat more to get the nutrition or satisfaction from the food you eat today vs.  in the past.  In addition food additives or in particular sugar subsitutes ie: 'high fructose corn syrup' can be blamed substantial in this argument.

But this is only one side of the argument.  Other experts may argue food branding campaigns, 'so much food in your face so you gotta have it' - product endorsements at our public schools, for our sports teams, on commericals, in magazines, everywhere.  

Another issue is more cultural, the how we eat, when we eat, how much we eat.

I can go on and on about this!


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## Fernando

My point of view:

1) The more information the better.

2) The better food people eat the better.

Given this,

3) If people decide to eat "bad" food and they die/get sick is THEIR PROBLEM.

4) If marketing campaigns put some pressure to consume "bad" food, people is stupid and it is THEIR BUSINESS.

5) Let the people enjoy food. It is funny, you can do it every day, you do not need the consent of other people and is cheap (in developed countries).

6) If people "commits suicide" smoking, eating or whatsoever, it is THEIR business.

No another anti-tobacco campaign, please.


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## mzsweeett

helen333 said:
			
		

> ......  Another issue is more cultural, the how we eat, when we eat, how much we eat.
> 
> I can go on and on about this!


 Hey go right ahead. I want to know what people are thinking. Also if these trends are more American vs. other countries?? 

I thank you very much for the books pointed out... I shall have to read them.  

Are Americans the ones who eat the most processed foods?? I was not aware that other countries had this same problem. I only hear about the USA having this ordeal going on..... I personally hate them. I try to make fresh meats and veggies... I prefer flavor and nutrients over convenience and not satisfying... lol 

In reply to your statement of when, and how much we eat.... do you think this is a learned trait or an adaptation?? I mean to say do you think that we eat this way because we are taught or is it more of a picked up habit??
Example:  *Before* I had kids I ate 3 meals a day... not a lot but I ate fairly decently.  *After* I had kids I went down to maybe 1 meal a day and late at night... probably due to not having much time for myself... my habits changed because my situation changed..... what do you think about this??

Sweet T.


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## Fernando

Just to clarify my previous post: All the comments I hear about obesity in US end recommending to ban this and that type of food. I see here the same process that began prohibiting the people to smoke in crowded places and has produced the new laws banning to smoke in the street.


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## nycphotography

My thoughts:

1) We are born a certain way. Our body has it's own ideas about and (and WHERE) to put weight. Some people are naturally going to be big. It doensn't mean they are slobs. Some people are naturally going to be skinny. It doesn't mean they are anorexic or have tapeworms.

2) Weight is a war of assimilation, not of conquest. Your waistline doesn't win a single battle of overindulgence. Weight gain is a slow, insidious, creeping enemy. Like every other long term goal, it tends to get put off until tomorrow while we enjoy ourselves today.

3) I still think processed foods are one of the primary causes. They pack in huge amounts of very cost effective simple starches, tasty fats, cheap artificial flavors, texture enhancing coatings, and easy storing preservatives.

And because of this, they are more flavorful, enjoyable, and accessible/convenient than natural foods. The fact is, an artificially flavored, fat soaked, texture coated, highly salted french fry is WAY tastier than a bland boiled potato, and its way more convenient.
Oh sure, we could eat salads... which end up with more fat and oil (nevermind dressing... in the croutons alone!!) than a supposedly unhealthy hamburger.

BUT...

4) It's not the fault, per se, of the food industry. The food "industry" is made up of "companies", each of which has the same raison d'etre as every other company. Namely: Produce foods/products that people want, manipulate the playing field through marketing to make it easier to sell as much of it as possible, so that you can make a profit.

They HAVE to make the products people will buy. And if people lack information, lack discipline, and lack the responsibility to develop it for themselves... It's a harsh reality, but it is what it is.

If everyone REALLY wanted McDonalds to sell french fries and steamed broccoli, trust me, they would. The reason the mega food companies sell insanely tasty crap, is because crap is the only thing we buy (because love insanely tasty things). Don't blame THEM for OUR preferences and choices. But we don't REALLY want McDonalds to sell healty food to everyone... because then they'd have to get rid of OUR favorite crap to stay profitable. We just SAY we want them to so we can feel better about ourselves.

5) Mom's are no longer home to cook and/or look after the kids (eating habits). Hey, I'm Not blaming Mom, she's got rent to pay just like the rest of us.

6) And even home cooked meals usually come from a package, a box, or a packaged mix! Finding the time and energy to cook "from scratch" is harder than ever, especially when the stores don't even HAVE scratch ingredients anymore. Have you LOOKED at what they sell in the grocery store?

7) A completely overlooked factor is that we have a FOOD AND MEDIA BASED CULTURE! Go read some personal ads for an afternoon and try to understand what the life of the average person is like: Work (at a sedentery office job). Drive to and from work. Get home and watch TV (or consume other equally sedentary media products like Movies, Video Games, or the Internet). And Eat. When most people list "going out to eat" as a form of recreation, it should tell you a lot about our culture. 
About the most exercise most of us get is walking into the restaurant from our car!!

8) And its not the restaurant's fault they over feed us. WE MAKE THEM. Any restaurant that doesn't is either "expensive" or out of business.
What has really changed in the world? The culture has changed. We are a world wide culture of consumers of media products who consider "going out to eat" as a good time. Is it any wonder we gain weight? 
Now we just have to find a good scapegoat so we can blame them (probably over dinner).


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## Markus

Lack of exercise is a big contributing factor that no one else has mentioned yet. A lot of people are jumping on the healthy foods bandwagon but are still couch potatoes. The results for these people will be disappointing. Other people run themselves to death but don't do any weight training. This is also not a smart approach.

Muscle eats calories. The equation is very simple -- increased muscle equals increased metabolism. The best program for anyone (not just for obese people -- let's stay healthy while we are!) is to get to the gym a few times a week. The more the better, but people work lots and are busy. Understandable. Even if you only make it twice a week, you're doing yourself a ton of good. Then add in cardio once or twice a week, 20-60 minutes, with of course a balanced meal plan.

Women in particular are weak in this area. A lot of ladies think that going to the gym will make them disgustingly muscular. Don't worry about that happening. It's practically impossible, and you would see it coming years in advance. Plenty of time to cut back on your workout. Muscle tone _is_ sexy on women. It makes you tight and firm.

Increased metabolism is the key to being able to better handle unhealthy foods. Of course, processed food and large amounts of fat and sugar are _never_ good for you, but after a couple months at the gym your body can handle the occassional McDonald's snack much better.


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## Markus

nycphotography said:
			
		

> We are a world wide culture of consumers of media products who consider "going out to eat" as a good time. Is it any wonder we gain weight?



There's nothing wrong with food being entertainment. Consider the French : no other culture spends more time eating, but they do not have the obesity problems of America. It's _what_ we are eating (and lack of exercise).


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## *Cowgirl*

nycphotography said:
			
		

> My thoughts:
> 
> 1) We are born a certain way. Our body has it's own ideas about and (and WHERE) to put weight.  Some people are naturally going to be big. It doensn't mean they are slobs. Some people are naturally going to be skinny. It doesn't mean they are anorexic or have tapeworms.
> 
> 3) I still think processed foods are one of the primary causes. They pack in huge amounts of very cost effective simple starches, tasty fats, cheap artificial flavors, texture enhancing coatings, and easy storing preservatives. I agree.
> 
> And because of this, they are more flavorful, enjoyable, and accessible/convenient than natural foods. The fact is, an artificially flavored, fat soaked, texture coated, highly salted french fry is WAY tastier than a bland boiled potato, and its way more convenient.
> Oh sure, we could eat salads... which end up with more fat and oil (nevermind dressing... in the croutons alone!!) than a supposedly unhealthy hamburger.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> 4) It's not the fault, per se, of the food industry. The food "industry" is made up of "companies", each of which has the same raison d'etre as every other company. Namely: Produce foods/products that people want, manipulate the playing field through marketing to make it easier to sell as much of it as possible, so that you can make a profit.
> 
> They HAVE to make the products people will buy. And if people lack information, lack discipline, and lack the responsibility to develop it for themselves... It's a harsh reality, but it is what it is.
> 
> If everyone REALLY wanted McDonalds to sell french fries and steamed broccoli, trust me, they would. The reason the mega food companies sell insanely tasty crap, is because crap is the only thing we buy (because love insanely tasty things). Don't blame THEM for OUR preferences and choices. But we don't REALLY want McDonalds to sell healty food to everyone... because then they'd have to get rid of OUR favorite crap to stay profitable. We just SAY we want them to so we can feel better about ourselves. Oh soooo true.
> 
> 6) And even home cooked meals usually come from a package, a box, or a packaged mix! Finding the time and energy to cook "from scratch" is harder than ever, especially when the stores don't even HAVE scratch ingredients anymore. Have you LOOKED at what they sell in the grocery store? Most grocery stores do sell basic ingredients; they're just priced outrageously.
> 
> 7) A completely overlooked factor is that we have a FOOD AND MEDIA BASED CULTURE! Go read some personal ads for an afternoon and try to understand what the life of the average person is like: Work (at a sedentery office job). Drive to and from work. Get home and watch TV (or consume other equally sedentary media products like Movies, Video Games, or the Internet). And Eat. When most people list "going out to eat" as a form of recreation, it should tell you a lot about our culture.
> About the most exercise most of us get is walking into the restaurant from our car!! When eating becomes fun, some people just can't stop. Its sad when the only exercise that people get is walking up a flight of stairs when the elevator is out of order.
> 
> 8) And its not the restaurant's fault they over feed us. WE MAKE THEM. You don't HAVE to eat it all.                                                              Any restaurant that doesn't is either "expensive" or out of business.
> What has really changed in the world? The culture has changed. We are a world wide culture of consumers of media products who consider "going out to eat" as a good time. Is it any wonder we gain weight?
> Now we just have to find a good scapegoat so we can blame them (probably over dinner).


 

I think you've got it nyc.


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## mzsweeett

Ok,

So in light of these now fairly well known facts about diet and exercise and the increasing number of artificial additives in food.... should it then be acceptable to give the term "disease" or "disorder" to anyone who is considered overweight or obese? 

The reason for my asking is that I have read several articles and spoken to people who view weight as a disease/disorder which cannot be controlled.... or at least can be maintained to a very mild degree. I wonder where the science is in all of this and why those who suffer from these problems are being taught that there is no hope for them..... that it should simply be accepted and tolerated and not helped. Basically many are being told this is the way it is and there is no real hope of change for you.....

Any ideas/comments on this next step of my thoughts??

Sweet T.


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## astronauta

Sweet, nobody has mentioned ADDICTION.

 I think that aspect plays a crucial part in the epidemic.

Compulsive eating, as well as other eating disorders (such as anorexia, bulimia, etc) are DISEASES and no bans, exercise, living-healthy promotionals will help vanquish them. It just takes eating a trigger food (namely over-processed food, candy, carbohydrates, etc) or a compulsive behaviour (excessive exersive, body-image obsession, etc.) to fuel it.

 Food companies know this very -if not a little too well as well as marketers.

My marketing teacher explained this to us years ago in uni. It's an ingeniously designed chain conformed by the media and food companies.

While I agree with Fernando that it is not the fault of Companies that anyone has this ailment; I also believe that people who are unfortunate to have this desease (compulsive eating disorder) get hooked on their addiction's trigger foods due to the environment. 

Just like a drug addict unable to resist its dealers' lures.


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## I.C.

Give Me Convenience or Give Me Death.
Compensation for other unfulfilled wants and needs in life. 
Food is an easily available quick-fix reward system.  
Junk food - the straight dope.


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## mzsweeett

OK,

So if we classify obesity as an addiction... we now have a new set of rules.... many doctors have claimed that addictions are permanent diseases.... whereby you must abstain from such things permanently to get over them i.e. alcohol, cocaine, etc. How then would one classify an addiction to food and then how would you remedy it? 

There is such a great problem in all this and I wonder if anyone will ever take responsibility for it... I do agree with you Astronauta and I.C. .... junk food is very addictive... a quick fix for hunger... I can't say that I have ever found comfort in food (except for satisfying my hunger).

To me it looks like a big circle in which noone will take the bull by the horns and make real progress.    The food industry makes too much money off them, and the ones who are in this situation are stuck in it by intense repeated influences stating that they are forever this way and no help is possible.    More ideas?

Sweet T.


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## I.C.

Replacement of rewards.
But there is no quick-fix. 
Lifelong times of plenty are not something evolution has prepared us for.

We are all addicted to the chemicals in our brain. 
Nature made us so. It keeps us going. 
Nature is cruel.

Wait, I forgot, evolution is just a hypothesis.


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## astronauta

That's right Sweet, and as in all the "Anonymous" programs (alcoholics, drug-addicts, overeeaters, etc.) the only solution is abstinence and support. 

But unlike other addictions where you can the remove the addictive substance; you need food everyday, and to exercise control and discipline for an addicted individual is, if not impossible, one of the hardest things.

Add to all this that we live in a world where we humans no longer have to hunt or find our own food in the wild therefore exercising; you can obtain, at arms strectch and readily available, pretty much anything you want, at a very low price and in sizes that would satisfy your whole day's nutrient needs by the tenfold... 

 No one is to blame, except the person who suffers the disease for not getting help; HOWEVER, the industry (media, food, the dieting industry, etc.) does not make it easy *AT AL**L, on the contrary, it increases  their sales by fueling it.*


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## astronauta

I.C. what you say is so true.
Our body does not even know how to process so much sugar!!


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## boelo

I remember reading that Obesity in Spain is getting a problem as well. People are loosing the Mediterranean Diet. it´s a shame. Not for how people look, but for their health. I prefer a nice salad over a Hamburger. (had one hambuger at the MC this afternoon and already felt sorry for it after 1 hour).


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## mzsweeett

Please forgive my ignorance.... but what is the Mediterranean Diet?  I have never heard of it... or perhaps I have but under a different name?? I wonder what effect this would have on America if more were to take on this "diet" pending it were a healthy one.... 

I completely agree and sympathize on your poor experience with good ole Mickey D's... I think we've all been there... 

Sweet T.  


			
				boelo said:
			
		

> I remember reading that Obesity in Spain is getting a problem as well. People are loosing the Mediterranean Diet. it´s a shame. Not for how people look, but for their health. I prefer a nice salad over a Hamburger. (had one hambuger at the MC this afternoon and already felt sorry for it after 1 hour).


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## Brioche

Generally the characteristics of a Mediterranean Diet are:

high consumption of fruits, vegetables, bread and other cereals, potatoes, beans, nuts and seeds, 
olive oil is an important monounsaturated fat source, 
dairy products, fish and poultry are consumed in low to moderate amounts, and little red meat is eaten, 
eggs are consumed up to four times a week, 
wine is consumed in moderate amounts.


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## jimreilly

Fernando said:
			
		

> Just to clarify my previous post: All the comments I hear about obesity in US end recommending to ban this and that type of food. I see here the same process that began prohibiting the people to smoke in crowded places and has produced the new laws banning to smoke in the street.



People can eat as much as they please without any of their  food going down my throat. But when people smoke in my presence I can't help but breathe in some of their smoke. The two things are different.


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## nabi

por favor bajen de peso yo tuve que bajar 12 kilos y eso me hizo bien para mi salud, en america conviene aprender a comer buenos alimetos para el cuerpo y para el alma.

con amor su amigo nabi


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## astronauta

Claro que si, yo estoy contigo Nabi, todos los excesos son malos. Ademas, cuando existe alguna condicion que mella la salud, no solo sufre la persona que la padece, sino los que la rodean y la aman al ver como padece enfermedades, adquiere limitaciones, y en fin, acorta su vida.


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## zebedee

El hilo ha perdido un poco su rumbo. 
mzsweet empezó el hilo con una pregunta clave:


			
				mzsweet said:
			
		

> I am not asking for criticism of those who are obese. I do not want to hear that you think fat people are lazy, ignorant, or whatever. *I am asking for your views on the medical profession's take on obesity and health; your views on the food industry... how it has changed to make food more healthy/unhealthy. Do you think there could be a way to change this trend?*?



A ver si volvemos a la pregunta original: ¿Cómo ha cambiado la industria de la alimentación para hacer que la comida sea más o menos sana que antes. ¿Existe alguna forma de cambiar esta tendencia?


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## astronauta

Contestando a tu pregunta, creo que las personas subestimamos el poder de nuestra eleccion de compra.

Esa misma eleccion, mueve TODAS las tendencias del mundo.


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## jimreilly

The most effective way I can think of to change the food industry is to buy and eat the healthiest things we can, and to make sure, if we have children, that their eating habits are well enough supervised so they do the same. Not easy. 

Besides that, potentially dangerous ingredients--and I'm talking about things like trans-fats, not "normal" ingredients such as fat and sugar--need to be AT LEAST clearly identified so we can avoid them. And if it is clear that such ingredients are really dangerous, once the facts are in, their use in food needs to be legally restricted.


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## Godfather

nycphotography said:
			
		

> And because of this, they are more flavorful, enjoyable, and accessible/convenient than natural foods. The fact is, an artificially flavored, fat soaked, texture coated, highly salted french fry is WAY tastier than a bland boiled potato, and its way more convenient.
> Oh sure, we could eat salads... which end up with more fat and oil (nevermind dressing... in the croutons alone!!) than a supposedly unhealthy hamburger.


I disagree. Food doesn't have to be very unhealthy to be enjoyable, more flavorful and so on. Not even a salad. Why more fat, why croutons? Olive oil, balsamico, a pinch of salt and pepper. That's it. Easy, tasty and better for your health.

@Fernando
It's not only their problem. Medical treatment because of obesity needs to be paid by someone. It has much more negative sides than just some people who are obese. It's really a social problem. But I totally agree that more information is a very important factor to better the situation.


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## GenJen54

If I could remind people of the topic at-hand:

I am asking for your views on the medical profession's take on obesity and health; your views on the food industry... how it has changed to make food more healthy/unhealthy. Do you think there could be a way to change this trend??

This thread has already drifted far off-topic once and a moderator had to intervene.  It is at risk of veering way off-topic again. If the trend continues, the thread will be closed. 

Thank you.


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