# Indonesian: Sympathy message



## theo1006

*Split from **this thread**.*


1TKE138 said:


> I need to send a sympathy message to a Dutch-Indonesian co-worker (and family) whose mother just died, is there any one who can assist with this?


 
A standard message in Indonesian is:

(1) *Saya ikut berduka cita atas kepergian ibunda (.....)*
or
(2) *Kami ikut berduka cita atas kepergian ibunda (.....)*

The first sentence is singular and somewhat less formal, meaning litterally:
I share in the sorrow at the demise of your mother, where the name of the son or daughter goes at the dots.
The second sentence is plural (we share ...) and can also be taken as singular and slightly more formal.

If you want to write something more personal, please give your text in English.

Regards,
Theo


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## MarX

theo1006 said:


> This I would render in Indonesian as:
> 
> *Barbara and <1> ikut berduka cita atas kepergian ibunda <2> serta nenenda anak-anak.*
> At <1> please put you own name; it is quite common in Indonesian to refer to oneself with one's name, not by a pronoun (which exists also: *saya*).
> At <2> put the name of your co-worker.
> 
> I understand you need the message also in Dutch. You might write in Dutch:
> *Barbara en ik condoleren jou en je kinderen met het overlijden van je moeder en hun grootmoeder.*
> 
> Regards,
> Theo


 
What is *nenenda*?

I've never heard of that word.


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## theo1006

Like for *ibu* you may write literary style: *ibunda*,
also for *nenek* there exists: *nenekanda* or *nenenda*.

Theo


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## MarX

I didn't know that at all!
Nor did it ever come into my mind that *ibunda* originated from *ibu *+ *anda*.

Me too I love the word *ibunda*. 

Makasih!


MarX


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## Joannes

Forgive me my curiosity, but what is the meaning of *anda*? 

(And am I right in assuming that *ibu* and *nenek* are kinship terms?)


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## MarX

*Anda* is a formal way of saying *you* (Dutch *U*).

Personally I never use that pronoun when speaking. Rather, I use other ways/words. This thread may give you an idea of what I'm talking about.


*Ibu* means _mother_, and *nènèk* means grandmother.

I seldom use *Ibu* to refer to my mother. I rather say *Mama*. And as for *nènèk*, I almost never use it, because I say *Oma* instead.
Although I may use it as in *nènèk-nènèk* to refer to an old woman.


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## theo1006

MarX said:


> I didn't know that at all!
> Nor did it ever come into my mind that *ibunda* originated from *ibu *+ *anda*.
> 
> Me too I love the word *ibunda*.


 
Hi Marx,

Your remark about *ibunda = ibu + anda* set me thinking.  Because I do not think that in this context *anda* can be taken as the pronoun *anda*.  If that were so then *ibunda* would be a possessive and mean 'your mother'.

Indeed, when I looked it up in my _Kamus Besar Bahasa Indonesia_ (published by _Balai Pustaka_), I found it has two lemma's:

1 *Anda* _pron_ sapaan untuk orang yg diajak berbicara atau berkomunikasi (tidak membedakan tingkat, kedudukan, dan umur)

2 *-anda (-nda, -da)* _bentuk terikat_ menyatakan hormat atau kekeluargaan: _ayahanda; ibunda; pamanda_

So these two 'anda'-s just happen to be homonyms.

Regards,
Theo


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## MarX

Thank you, Theo!

*Ayahanda* sounds so poetic to me, and as for *pamanda*, I barely knew the word.

But Indonesian is so full of surprises.

Now after getting to know many other languages do I realize how rich Indonesian is. 

Regards,


MarX


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## Joannes

theo1006 said:


> 2 *-anda (-nda, -da)* _bentuk terikat_ menyatakan hormat atau kekeluargaan: _ayahanda; ibunda; pamanda_


Right, so what does this mean then, please?


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## MarX

Joannes said:


> Right, so what does this mean then, please?



It means that those suffixes always follow a word, and show respect or familiarity.


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## Joannes

Thank you.


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## rasserie

I think ibunda is not the summation of ibu and anda.

How about BAHASA IBUNDA? 

As a side note, PAMAN means uncle. Or pakcik.


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## theo1006

I just found a reference to the pronoun *anda* in the Periplus textbook “Bahasa Indonesia” by Yohanni Johns.
 According to this textbook the pronoun *anda* (in contrast to the suffix *-anda, -nda, -da*) was _proposed_ by an airforce (AURI) captain by name of Sabirin as a neutral pronoun like English *you *in the daily newspaper 'Pedoman' of 28 February 1957.  At the time the indonesian scholar Sutan Takdir Alisjahbana expressed his approval of the word, whereas professor Poerbatjaraka took a wait-and-see stand.
 It says further that Sabirin did not _invent_ the word *anda*, but _discovered_ it in a dictionary by Sutan Mohammad Zain.  In that dictionary it was listed as meaning *yang mulia* or *yang terhormat* (_the honourable_ or _the esteemed_).
 Thus after all it may be true that the pronoun *anda* has the same origin as the suffix.


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## MarX

That's very interesting to know. Thank you!

I've always suspected *anda* was related to *ente* which I guess is related to Arabic "you".

Indonesian/Malay has always been apt to adopt ways of adressing or saying "you" from other languages after all. E.g. Dutch *jij*, English *you*, Portuguese *você*, Chinese *lu/loe*.


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