# pronunciation of בצפון



## קטן

בצפון means in 'in the north', I suppose. Regarding pronunciation, I'd expect ˌbɜ̆.t͜sɐˈfɔn, in accordance with בְצָפוֹן . In songs, however, I keep hearing bɐ.t͜sɐˈfɔn, corresponding to בַצָפוֹן or בָצָפוֹן . (Pronunciation given in IPA notation.)

Thus my question:
Is בהצפון (notice the additional ה) an alternative way to express 'in the north' ? Because then pronunciation with ɐ, instead of ɜ, would conform to the general pronunciation rules for the proclitic בּ־ ('in').


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## Drink

Hopefully this will clarify for you:

be- + ha- = ba- (the ה is elided and thus not written)

You almost never have beha-, but there are some exceptions.


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## קטן

בַּהְצָפוֹן ,הַצָפוֹן ,בְּצָפוֹן
I know them all.

My problem is that people SING bɐ.t͜sɐˈfɔn, but then the TRANSCRIPTION is בְּצָפוֹן.
That seems incorrect and sloppy.

Unless, of course, there's is NO SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE between 
בְּצָפוֹן and בַּהְצָפוֹן.
Is there no such difference ?


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## Abaye

"be-" ("in") is changed to "ba-" when it's definite ("in the") and the following consonant gets a stress ("gemination"). This is a result of the definite article ה contracted into the ב: behatsafon -> batsafon. This rule is at least as old as biblical Hebrew.


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## amikama

קטן said:


> My problem is that people SING bɐ.t͜sɐˈfɔn, but then the TRANSCRIPTION is בְּצָפוֹן.


What song do they sing?


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## aavichai

The form of בְּצָפוֹן is not a form to use.
It is like saying: "In (a) north".

There are two options:
1. "In the north" = בַּצָּפוֹן = batsafon.
2. a construct state - "In (the) north of X" = X-בִּצְפוֹן = bi.tsfon-X
Like בִּצְפוֹן אַרְצוֹת הַבְּרִית for example.

If you hear someone pronounce the TS (of tsafon) with a Mobile Sheva, then he must pronounce its prefix B with Hiriq (I vowel).
and if he still pronounce the prefix B with a Mobile Sheva (as an "e" vowel), then it is just not being accurate.


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## קטן

Now we're getting somewhere. Didn't know בַּצָּפוֹן exists.

The definite article disappears in spelling even, not just pronunciation ?

Hitherto, I worked with בַּהְצָפוֹן. The latter, in the sense of בַּצָּפוֹן, isn't Hebrew ?


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## Drink

קטן said:


> בַּהְצָפוֹן ,הַצָפוֹן ,בְּצָפוֹן
> I know them all.





קטן said:


> Unless, of course, there's is NO SEMANTIC DIFFERENCE between
> בְּצָפוֹן and בַּהְצָפוֹן.
> Is there no such difference ?





קטן said:


> Hitherto, I worked with בַּהְצָפוֹן. The latter, in the sense of בַּצָּפוֹן, isn't Hebrew ?


There is no such thing as בַּהְצָפוֹן. I don't know where you saw such a thing.


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## Abaye

קטן said:


> Now we're getting somewhere. Didn't know בַּצָּפוֹן exists.
> 
> The definite article disappears in spelling even, not just pronunciation ?
> 
> Hitherto, I worked with בַּהְצָפוֹן. The latter, in the sense of בַּצָּפוֹן, isn't Hebrew ?


This issue is basic Hebrew, it's usually covered in one of the first Hebrew lessons. If you want to get good understanding, a reasonable starting point is some Hebrew 101 book or site. Otherwise the discussion is blurry.


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## קטן

I saw בַּהְצָפוֹן in *my mind*, as a straightforward way to unify multiple proclitics and other words.
(Such things happen when you have a working mind on your own, not just following beaten tracks, such as other people's languages.)
Nevertheless, thank you all.
aavichai in particular provided revealing and dense answer.

I still don't fully understand the stress pattern of בַּצָפוֹן.
Is primary stress on [bɐt], [t͜sɐ] or [fɔn] ?


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