# the shades of Pemberley [Pride and Prejudice]



## cavilles

Excerpt from the chapter in Pride and Prejudice when Lady Catherine tries to find out whether Elizabeth will enter into an engagment with Mr. Darcy or not: 

"Heaven and earth, are the shades of Pemberley to be thus polluted?"

What does "shades" refer to here? The surroundings or something else I cannot get a grip on...?

I have also found the book title "Pemberley Shades" by DA Bonavia Hunt, but it does 
not make my any wiser.


(To be translated into Swedish.)



Thank you for any advice on these "shades"!


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## KittyCatty

Here is the entry for shades on an online dictionary - I wanted to check what I thought. It is an unusual noun, but I took it to be the area of woodland, some forest. And the online dictionary does highlight 'an umbrage of woodland'. So I think it is an area of trees. 
If you want help translating, there's the French-English forum!
And welcome to the forums too 
KittyCatty


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## emma42

Hello Cavilles.  Welcome to the Forum!  

Yes, I think it means that Pemberley either has lots of trees (which give shade) in its grounds, or it could mean that the house itself gives lots of shade.  What is the chapter?  I might try to look it up.  It is a very poetice usage by today's standards.


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## panjandrum

The shades of Pemberley?
Likely options include:
1.  The shadows in the Pemberley estate; the sheltered places.
2.  The spirits/ghosts/shades of those who have owned Pemberley and made it what it is.

I'm having difficulty expressing this - but it seems to me to be (1) with some element of (2) and an extended meaning as if those shades represent in some way the essence of Pemberley.

This is conjecture - others may disagree completely


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## KittyCatty

Yes, and I'll do the same  (read the chapter if you give us it) So we can discuss whether it is poetically significant at all or whether it does indeed describe the surroundings, as it would first appear. It is an unusual usage nowadays, and the online dictionary entry quotes a poetic use of the word too.


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## panjandrum

Chapter 56
The context gives _*me*_ no more clues.


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## cavilles

Hello,

Thank you for your help with the definition of "shades". I cannot post the link, but if you search for Pemberley Shades, you will find a pdf file containing the chapter in question (no 58). 

It seems possible it would relate to the woodland surrounding the mansion and, as panjandrum says, maybe in an extended meaning, the essence of Pemberley. The last assumption also seems possible regarding the book title I also mentioned in my first posting "Pemberley Shades".

Now to the translation...


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## se16teddy

'Shades' is the conventional rendering of the Latin 'manes'. 'Manes' were the ghosts of the deceased of the locality, who took a benevolent interest in the activities of the living.  The concern is that an unsuitable person should eventually join them.  
http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/dailylifeaspects/qt/RomanGhosts.htm 

Those who have suggested that 'shades' refers to the shady or wooded bits of Pemberley have not indicated why they think that the shady parts should be more susceptible to pollution than the sunny parts. Come on, guys, this is Jane Austen, not George W Bush!


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## emma42

Well, excuse me, se16teddy. There may well also be nuances of "manes" in the context of this word, but the other possibilities offered are perfectly valid. 18th/19th century fashion in landscaping made much of trees. The word is obviously being used as metonomy, however you choose to define it.


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## cuchuflete

Pemberly is Mr Darcy's residence.  The _shades_ seems to apply to the estate as such, as previously suggested. Such ghosts as may reside there are less apt to suffer pollution by an unsuitable marital alliance than the grounds, and by implication, the family of the owner.  

An argument may be made for the ghosts, but the amount of attention paid to the size of various landholdings, early in the chapter, suggests that Lady Catherine is referring to the estate, and by extension, the honorable totality of her nephew's existence.


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## emma42

I agree with Cuchu.  The sizes of various estates, their make-up and the accompanying riches of the owners are a huge subject in Austen.


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## panjandrum

Despite teddy's rather brusque dismissal of the actual shadows, I have a strong sympathy with his enthusiasm for the ghosts of Pemberley 

I can't hear *the shades of Pemberley* without hearing something of the supernatural.


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## rsweet

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Pemberly is Mr Darcy's residence.  The _shades_ seems to apply to the estate as such, as previously suggested. Such ghosts as may reside there are less apt to suffer pollution by an unsuitable marital alliance than the grounds, and by implication, the family of the owner.
> 
> An argument may be made for the ghosts, but the amount of attention paid to the size of various landholdings, early in the chapter, suggests that Lady Catherine is referring to the estate, and by extension, the honorable totality of her nephew's existence.



Yes, when Lady Catherine says, "Are the shades of Pemberly to be thus polluted?" I believe she is talking about Darcy's illustrious ancestors.


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## emma42

How do you know for sure, rsweet (not disagreeing, but wondering)?


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## Isotta

panjandrum said:
			
		

> Despite teddy's rather brusque dismissal of the actual shadows, I have a strong sympathy with his enthusiasm for the ghosts of Pemberley
> 
> I can't hear *the shades of Pemberley* without hearing something of the supernatural.



Of Pemberley, I hear no echo of the supernatural, but with Wuthering Heights...

By "shades" I think the reader is meant to gather both the lineage and the environs, whether Lady Catherine meant it or not. If the latter (more likely) is the case, Austin may be poking fun at her and the notion of the noble line.


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## rsweet

Hi Emma,

Jane Austen is my absolute favorite author, and I've read all her books many times (my favorite is _Emma_)

In this scene Lady Catherine--a tremendous snob--has come to see Elizabeth because she has heard that her nephew Mr. Darcy has proposed to her. She's used to getting her own way, and she thinks that if she voices her displeasure, Elizabeth will break off the engagement. Well, Elizabeth is not engaged yet (she turned him down the first time), but she won't back down and promise never to enter into such an engagement. Here comes the scene: Lady Catherine is pointing out that if Elizabeth and Darcy marry, the son of Mr. Darcy's steward and Elizabeth's sister (who married him after running off and living with him in sin) will be relations. "And is such a girl to be my nephew's sister? Is her husband, is the son of his late father's steward, to be his brother?" Then comes the polluted bit . . .


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## emma42

Hi rsweet.  Everyone's favourite is Emma (!!), darling.

Right then, the argument for "manes" appears to be extremely strong.


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## rsweet

Well, I suppose there's nothing to prove that they are not manes. But these manes would have to be important enough for Lady Catherine to worry about their being polluted. If the manes were common types, they would definitely be beneath her upturned nose, but you're right there's nothing to prove which shades she's talking about.


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## emma42

You're arguing against yourself now, rsweet!  No, I think that if the preceding conversation was all about families and family reputation etc, then "manes" gets my vote.  Of course, there may be other shades of meaning.  Shades!  Get it?!


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## cuchuflete

Draw the window _______s on the thought process of foreros with a little ambiguous context to work with. The lamps are lit, but the illumination is diminished by the_____s.

Yes, Emma, your pun was shadier!


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## rsweet

Okay, but why would a snooty English lady care about a bunch of dead Romans (or have I misunderstood the info in the link)? Wouldn't it make more sense to think that the shades are dead Darcy ancestors? [snooty English lady = Lady Catherine]


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## emma42

I often have to ***** my eyes from the bright sun of your wit, Cuche.


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## emma42

rsweet, we _are _saying that "manes" refers to the dead Darcy ancestors. I thought that was what _you_ were saying as well!


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## cuchuflete

I'm confused.  First Rsweet tells us, with good logic, that the bloodlines are at risk of pollution, then its the fields and trees.

I'm not convinced that the early suggestions were not correct:
It's one with overtones of the other, shades of meaning.


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## Joelline

I believe that the context of "shades of Pemberley" makes it fairly clear that *Lady Catherine* is solely concerned here with lineage and with keeping her nephew's "honor" and his pedigree pure. 

When she speaks of Elizabeth's sister's scandal, Lady C says, "And is such a girl to be my nephew's sister? Is her husband, is the son of his late father's steward, to be his brother? Heaven and earth! -- of what are you thinking? Are the shades of Pemberley to be thus polluted?''   

She certainly appears to be speaking of the contamination of a bloodline. The "shades" appear to refer to the dead (but oh so lofty) ancestors of Mr. Darcy (and, by extension, Lady C. herself). 

Lady C goes on to say, "You have no regard, then, for the honour and credit of my nephew! Unfeeling, selfish girl! Do you not consider that a connection with you must disgrace him in the eyes of everybody?''

And, finally, Lady C adds, "You are determined to ruin him in the opinion of all his friends, and make him the contempt of the world.''

In all this, Lady C's focus is on keeping the family's lineage free of contamination in order to maintain the family's social position.

On the other hand, *Jane Austen* may also be putting the "shades of Pemberley" phrase into the mouth of Lady C to remind the reader of the first view that Elizabeth had of Pemberley: an almost Edenic place. In chapter 43, we find this description:  "It was a large, handsome, stone building, standing well on rising ground, and backed by a ridge of high woody hills; ...  [Elizabeth] had never seen a place for which nature had done more, or where natural beauty had been so little counteracted by an awkward taste."  

And so, the "shades of Pemberley" may have both a figurative and a literal meaning.


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## cavilles

Thank you for all input and for animating my early Wednesday morning! 
The "manes" topic and link are very interesting, and I think the theory about seing those "shades" as Mr. Darcys' ancestors or lineage is quite convincing. 
As the name of the estate is included in the expression: "the shades of Pemberley", it would then be natural, rather than supernatural, to include whatever shady meaning is related to Pemberley - ancestors, ghosts, surroundings, the estate's history etc.


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## Isotta

I found this as well in Nabokov's _Pale Fire_. The narrator is an academic named Kinbote, who is writing a foward to a poem by his dead friend and poet John *Shade*:

 Nay, I shall even assert *(as our shadows still walk without us)* that there remained to be written only _one_ line of the poem...

The poem itself begins with, "I was the shadow of the waxwing slain / By the false azure in the windowpane; I was the smudge of the ashen fluff--and I / Lived on, flew on, in the reflected sky." Here the "poet" (i.e., Nabokov) seems to use "shadow" and "shade" as a sort of strange double for the living and the conscious.


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## eddiesanford07

No, no. I think that "shades" refer to shades of color. For instance, white is considered to be symbolic of purity, and Elizabeth becoming mistress of Pemberley would "pollute" that purity. That is what I gathered from Pride and Prejudice.


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## se16teddy

My earlier post in this thread was written without the benefit of the OED and is inaccurate.  

Here is a (four sentence) extract from the entry for 'shades' in the OED in the 'ancestors' sense. It appears that the Latin original is more precisely _umbra_, not _manes_ as I suggested. 
*6. a.* The visible but impalpable form of a dead person, a ghost. Also, a disembodied spirit, an inhabitant of Hades (= Latin _umbra_); chiefly with allusion to pagan mythology. Often collective plural, *the shades*: the world of disembodied spirits, Hades... 
*...*
*c.* Originally, in humorous invocation of the spirit of a deceased person, as likely to be horrified or amazed by some action or occurrence...
*...*
*1863* W. PHILLIPS _Sp._ i. 8 Shades of Hugh Peters and John Cotton, save us from such pulpits! 
...
*1866* WYNTER _Our Social Bees_ Ser. II. 96 Shade of my aunt! why, her Dresden china poodle dog cost more money. 
...


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## Shady Wood

In the book's second last paragraph, Lady Catherine "condescended to wait on them at Pemberley, in spite of that pollution which its woods had received, not merely from the presence of such a mistress, but the visits of her uncle and aunt from the city."


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## PaulQ

At #8 and #29, SE16teddy is quite right. *Shades *here means spirits/ghosts (of previous owners.) 


The use of "*shades*" to mean trees can be dismissed out of hand; note that it is in the plural and that *shade *is an uncountable noun when used to mean the shadow of something in the literal sense. I have never heard *shades *outside of the sense of spirit/ghost and no dicitonary gives that meaning for a countatble noun. 

The association of the plural with trees is simplistic and, more than that, it is incongruous to think that the lady speaking would be at all interested in the opinions of trees. 


There is a fallacy at work in any answer that refers to trees and the fallacy is that pollution is being used in the sense of toxins in the air that might affect trees. This sense of pollution seems to be (i) informed by the present concerns expressed by environmentalists; this is not the case here; this is the early 19th century when there were no such concerns (ii) that in some way toxins would be produced by a marriage and affect the quality of an estate's shade - even the wildest metaphor would not cover this. 


Any reference to social history of the period will show that inheritance and blood-lineage was by far the greatest concern of the upper-classes, industrialists and the landed gentry of the day





> "Not so hasty, if you please. I have by no means done. To all the objections I have already urged, I have still another to add. I am no stranger to the particulars of your youngest sister's infamous elopement. I know it all; that the young man's marrying her was a patched-up business, at the expence of your father and uncles. And is such a girl to be my nephew's sister? Is her husband, is the son of his late father's steward, to be his brother? Heaven and earth! -- of what are you thinking? Are the shades of Pemberley to be thus polluted?''


 = is the bloodline of the dead owners of Pemberly to be thus polluted?


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## Thomas Tompion

PaulQ said:


> note..... that *shade *is an uncountable noun when used to mean the shadow of something in the literal sense. I have never heard *shades *outside of the sense of spirit/ghost and no dicitonary gives that meaning for a countatble noun. [...]


I regard this as such a strange statement that I think I cannot have understood Paul correctly.  If he's saying that *shades* can't mean *shadows*, then I think that is just false.

Here's a dictionary which seems to be doing what Paul says no dictionary does.

5. shades, a. darkness gathering at the close of day: Shades of night are falling.


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## wandle

Coming late to this thread, I think the definitive answer has been given by *se16teddy* in post 29.
At the same time, *ThomasTompion* is quite right that 'shades' can mean physical shadows, though it does not do so in the present context.
Another point is that to the classically-educated world of the 19th-century middle and upper classes, the word 'pollution' generally had the sense of 'moral stain' or 'defilement' rather than the sense of 'chemical or physical damage' which springs first to the modern mind.


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## PaulQ

Thomas Tompion said:


> I regard this as such a strange statement that I think I cannot have understood Paul correctly.  If he's saying that *shades* can't mean *shadows*, then I think that is just false


I agree. *IF *I were saying that I *would have been* wrong. *If* you re-read, I did not say that. 

I wrote,





> *The use of *"*shades" to mean trees can be dismissed out of hand;*


In the phrase, "The *shade *of trees" *shade *is uncountable.


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## Thomas Tompion

PaulQ said:


> I agree. *IF *I were saying that I *would have been* wrong. *If* you re-read, I did not say that.
> 
> I wrote,[/B]In the phrase, "The *shade *of trees" *shade *is uncountable.


Yes, and I dismissed it out of hand as you did, but then you said, and still say (and I won't take up space by quoting it directly again) when I *re-read*: _ I have never heard *shades *outside of the sense of spirit/ghost_.

This gave me the very strong impression that you'd never heard _*shades*_ outside of the sense of spirit/ghost, yet I don't think *the shades of evening* means _*the spirits/ghosts of evening*_.  This is why I wondered if you really meant what you seemed to be saying.


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## Shady Wood

Lady Catherine's phrase, "the shades of Pemberly" means Pemberly's woods. This is clear from Austen's tongue-in-cheek reference to the pollution of Pemberly's woods on the novel's final page. The Oxford English Dictionary recognises "shades" used in this sense and Austen employed it in this way elsewhere.


 In the book's second last paragraph, Lady Catherine "condescended to wait on them at Pemberley, in spite of that pollution which its woods had received, not merely from the presence of such a mistress, but the visits of her uncle and aunt from the city." The ridiculous idea that Elizabeth would bring pollution to Pemberly belongs to Lady Catherine and the ironic assertion of pollution here is a  reference to her first introduction of it. When she outlined how the "shades of Pemberly" might "thus" be polluted, her theme was Elizabeth's family, and that is reflected here with the mention of the Gardeners' visits. I think Austen's parallel reference is enough to establish that she intended the "shades of Pemberly" to indicate the woods, even if such a use were unsupported by dictionary entries or other instances of similar use, but it is so supported.



 The Oxford English Dictionary defines "shades: (literary) a shadow or area of darkness" and gives an example use, "the shades of the evening drew on." Similar to Lady Catherine's use, the interest here is not in the shadows but on what they belong to, ie the evening. Austen used the phrase in a similar way in a letter to her sister, Cassandra (Feb 20, 1807):


 "Mrs. Day has now got the carpet in hand, and Monday I hope will be the last day of her employment here. A fortnight afterwards she is to be called again from the shades of her red-checked bed in an alley near the end of the High Street, to clean the new house and air the bedding."  


 She could have said, "called from her red-checked bed" and conveyed the same meaning, though less poetically. The woods were the recognised agency of shade at Pemberly, but the "shades of Pemberly" was a poetic way to refer to the estate itself.



 Before I noticed the parallel reference I thought shades might mean ghosts but, perhaps like many readers, I felt it jarred. Would Lady Catherine really say:


 "Are the ghosts of Pemberly to be thus polluted?"


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## wandle

Shady Wood said:


> Would Lady Catherine really say:
> "Are the ghosts of Pemberly to be thus polluted?"


She certainly could say 'shades' with that sense and might very well do so. This is a traditional idea which goes back to the classical tradition of the ancient world. The concept was a familiar part of the outlook of the educated classes of the 18th and 19th century. *se16teddy's *post 29 sums it up; to which we should only add that the word 'pollution' in that tradition carried primarily the sense of 'moral defilement'.

It was common for ideas from the classical world to be bandied about in conversation in just this way. The invocation 'Ye gods!' is an obvious example, as is 'in the lap of the gods', and many more. These expressions were used by people who thought of themselves as upright members of a Christian society, even though such sayings are rooted in the quite different religion and culture of ancient Greece and Rome and if taken literally imply an utter lack of Christian faith. 

The incongruity of this was overlooked because of the prestige which attached to classical education and also because of the tendency of those who had only an imperfect classical education, or none at all, to imitate the  language of those who had been through school and university, where classics was the staple diet.

I feel sure Lady Catherine's comment ought to be read in that sense. The narrator's comment in the second last paragraph seems to be a conscious pun on the idea and perhaps a satirical jibe at the practice of saying such things. After all, it is just the sort of thing that someone might say who had failed to understand the meaning of Lady Catherine's remark. 

It may be that Jane Austen herself did not understand it, but had put it in the mouth of Lady Catherine simply because she had heard people using it and saw it as characteristic of the sort of person she wanted to portray.
Then at the end she makes the dismissive comment in the second last paragraph so as to satirise both Lady Catherine and the use of the phrase itself.


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## Shady Wood

wandle said:


> It may be that Jane Austen herself did not understand it...



I'm not sure whether the suggestion is that Jane Austen satirised  the phrase as well as not understanding it, or whether satire is somehow  an alternative explanation.

Certainly, Jane Austen would have  understood the use of "shades" to mean spirits of the dead, which is not  an uncommon usage. For example, she may have come across, "Fairies,  black, grey, green, and white,/ You moonshine revellers and shades of  night," in The Merry Wives of Windsor (V.v.41-42).

However, Jane Austen's substitution of "woods" for "shades" on the last page in _Pride and Prejudice_  conforms with another recognised use of "shades", one which we have a  record of Jane using in a letter to Cassandra on February 20, 1807. I  don't see how her substitution could be reconciled with the first  meaning. Assuming that Jane Austen didn't understand the phrase seems an  unnecessary and unlikely stretch. References to Latin words also seem  unsupportive, indeed irrelevant.

By way of interest, Shakespeare also used "shades" in this style. In Richard II  for example, "To dwell in solemn shades of endless night" (I.iii.177)  poetically refers to the "night" of exile. This is similar to writing  the "shades" of Mrs Day's "red checked bed" to mean her bed, and also,  surely, "the shades of Pemberley" to mean its woods, the estate itself.


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## wandle

Joelline has explained what the idea of 'pollution' means in connection with family line and pedigree. 
The additional context given in her post shows that that idea was clearly a concern in Lady Catherine's mind.





Joelline said:


> I believe that the context of "shades of Pemberley" makes it fairly clear that *Lady Catherine* is solely concerned here with lineage and with keeping her nephew's "honor" and his pedigree pure.
> 
> When she speaks of Elizabeth's sister's scandal, Lady C says, "And is such a girl to be my nephew's sister? Is her husband, is the son of his late father's steward, to be his brother? Heaven and earth! -- of what are you thinking? Are the shades of Pemberley to be thus polluted?''
> 
> She certainly appears to be speaking of the contamination of a bloodline. The "shades" appear to refer to the dead (but oh so lofty) ancestors of Mr. Darcy (and, by extension, Lady C. herself).
> 
> Lady C goes on to say, "You have no regard, then, for the honour and credit of my nephew! Unfeeling, selfish girl! Do you not consider that a connection with you must disgrace him in the eyes of everybody?''
> 
> And, finally, Lady C adds, "You are determined to ruin him in the opinion of all his friends, and make him the contempt of the world.''
> 
> In all this, Lady C's focus is on keeping the family's lineage free of contamination in order to maintain the family's social position.


That context seems to me conclusive in establishing that 'shades' is a reference to the family's ancestors.

The reason why the classical background is relevant is because that is where this un-Christian idea comes from. The word 'shades' has the meaning of 'ghosts of the ancestors' simply because 'shades' is the traditional translation of the Latin word '_manes_' which has that meaning. The Roman reverence for the ancestors was not as great as in Chinese ancestor-worship, but still it is an idea from outside the sphere of Christian belief and thought. 

The classical background is therefore relevant not just for the meaning of the word 'shades', but also for the idea of giving reverence to the ancestors' shades: that is, the ancestors' ghosts. This came into the 18th-century outlook from the tradition of classical education. 18th and 19th-century writing and culture cannot be understood properly without the classical element which was the basis of education.

The idea that 'shades' might be a reference to the Pemberley estate is not just contradicted by the context of the novel along with the historical and cultural context, but also seems lacking in meaning itself. It is not only odd to imagine that the grounds of the estate (but not the house or the family) might be contaminated, but odder still to select the shadows cast by the trees for this role. The shadows are the darkest part of the scene. If it were the scenery being contaminated, then it would be more to the point to pick the bright, colourful elements such as flowers, lawns and fountains rather than the already gloomy shadows.


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## Keith Bradford

Amazed that you've all gone on so long.  It means *ghosts of dead ancestors *and therefore *bloodline*.  No other sensible reading.  Consider who the woman is!


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## Shady Wood

wandle said:


> The idea that 'shades' might be a reference to the Pemberley estate is not just contradicted by the above context, but also seems lacking in meaning itself. It is not only odd to imagine that the grounds of the estate (but not the house or the family) might be contaminated, but odder still to select the shadows cast by the trees as being contaminated.



Replying to the second argument first, it's not “odd” or “lacking in meaning” to talk about the estate being polluted. Jane Austen does so explicitly in the book's second last paragraph, when Lady Catherine "condescended to wait on them at Pemberley, in spite of that pollution which its woods had received, not merely from the presence of such a mistress, but the visits of her uncle and aunt from the city."


Jane Austen's substitution of “woods” for “shades” establishes that Lady Catherine's phrase “the shades of Pemberley” refers to the estate. Any argument to the contrary needs to continue to engage with this.


In exploring a usage that the OED calls _literary_ I want to note that it's not literal. Writing to her sister, Jane's concern with Mrs Day's bed is only that Mrs Day wasn't in it, not that it was red-checked, much less any great significance in it being shaded. Likewise here, Lady Catherine is talking about Pemberley and her family. She is concerned with her honour and equates that with the estate of Pemberley and the reputation of those who might live there.


Laying that aside and looking at the first argument, I don't yet follow its logic. Lady Catherine values lineage, in particular Darcy's and his cousin's “same noble line” and doesn't want connections that will disgrace her. She is concerned about Anne's “pedigree” because of the present threat to her prestige, with no mention of the purity of future family lines or danger to ancestors from the past. This is the context in which Lady Catherine expostulates about Pemberley. There is no contradiction here.


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## Shady Wood

Shady Wood said:


> She is concerned about Anne's “pedigree”...



I meant Elizabeth, not Anne, but I can't work out how to edit my post.


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