# Bulgarian: usage of the definite article on long possessive pronouns



## Evo900

I'm about confused about whether I should or shouldn't use a definite article on long possessive pronouns.

Here are two examples:

Ще говоря с неговия братовчед
Ще говоря с негов братовчед

Не съм неговия братовчед
Не съм негов братовчед

It seems like there is something that makes it ok to use the non-definite form in the second sentence but not in the first one. I'm not sure.

Thanks!


----------



## miasam

Ще говоря с неговия братовчед - I'll talk to his cousin - I have a specific person in mind, *the *cousin.
Ще говоря с негов братовчед - I'll talk to a cousin of his/to one of his cousins. - sounds like 1. I don't exactly know the cousin or my interlocutor doesn't, or 2. It is not certain to which one of the cousins I'll talk (presuming the person has more than one). In the first case you may also say "с *един *негов братовчед" and in the second "с *някой *негов братовчед".

Не съм неговия братовчед - I'm not his cousin - The person has a cousin, but I am not that cousin.
Не съм негов братовчед - I'm not a cousin of his - He may have as many cousins as he wants or have no cousins at all; either way I am not related to him in that way.

I hope this clears things up.


----------



## Panceltic

miasam said:


> Ще говоря с неговия братовчед - I'll talk to his cousin - I have a specific person in mind, *the *cousin.
> Ще говоря с негов братовчед - I'll talk to a cousin of his/to one of his cousins. - sounds like 1. I don't exactly know the cousin or my interlocutor doesn't, or 2. It is not certain to which one of the cousins I'll talk (presuming the person has more than one). In the first case you may also say "с *един *негов братовчед" and in the second "с *някой *негов братовчед".
> 
> Не съм неговия братовчед - I'm not his cousin - The person has a cousin, but I am not that cousin.
> Не съм негов братовчед - I'm not a cousin of his - He may have as many cousins as he wants or have no cousins at all; either way I am not related to him in that way.
> 
> I hope this clears things up.



Wouldn't it be "Не съм неговия*т* братовчед"?


----------



## Evo900

Thanks miasam, that's extremely clear!  

It is нигови*я*, and not негови*ят*, because "his cousin" is the object of the sentence, not the subject (the "-ят" definite article is used for the subject, "-я" is used for the object).


----------



## Panceltic

Hm, as far as I can see it is indeed the object in the sentence "Ще говоря с неговия братовчед", but not in "Не съм неговия(т) братовчед" where it is the predicate, so it should have the subject ending in my opinion.


----------



## marco_2

Well, *I *am the subject of this sentence, not the cousin, so according to the rules "(Аз) Не съм неговия братовчед"

P.S. Of course in very colloquial speech  this rule isn't obeyed - I once saw a note: _Магазина не работи._


----------



## Panceltic

marco_2 said:


> Well, *I *am the subject of this sentence, not the cousin, so according to the rules "(Аз) Не съм неговия братовчед"
> 
> P.S. Of course in very colloquial speech  this rule isn't obeyed - I once saw a note: _Магазина не работи._



Yeah, when I was learning Bulgarian my teacher told me that even in normal speech, people don't pronounce the -t at the end of the article, no matter where.

However, according to Section 3 on this page, the correct form is "Не съм неговият братовчед".


----------



## miasam

marco_2 said:


> I once saw a note: _Магазина не работи._


 Once? I see it all the time  You know why? Because this is *actually the correct* natural form. I don't know why they still insist on this artificial -ат/-ят thing, it makes absolutely no sense and serves absolutely no purpose. It is not even applied in speech, as Panceltic noted. Moreover, if you look at a text from late 19th or early 20th century you will see the exact opposite rule in action - the object carries the -t and not the subject. Actually even today many (if not most) people make the same "mistake" when they write without thinking of the gramar rules, because it feels more natural. So, there's no need to obsess about it, a sentence would make perfect sense without the -t ending.


----------



## DarkChild

Panceltic said:


> Hm, as far as I can see it is indeed the object in the sentence "Ще говоря с неговия братовчед", but not in "Не съм неговия(т) братовчед" where it is the predicate, so it should have the subject ending in my opinion.



Just say Не съм му братовчед and don't stress over it 

Of course, in speech it makes no difference.


----------



## Christo Tamarin

About the difference *неговият/неговия*.

This is an affair totally internal to the Bulgarian state and to the Bulgarian ministry of education in particular.
There is no difference in the natural Bulgarian language.
This topic is not to be applied outside Bulgaria or in the internet as internet is outside Bulgaria.

And yes, according the requirements of the Bulgarian ministry of education, it is "Не съм неговия*т* братовчед".

In internet writing, I always use the full form: "Говорих с неговия*т* братовчед".

In my speech, I would usually say: "Говорих с неговия братовчед", "Не съм неговия братовчед".


----------

