# Etymology: ἔρχομαι



## MindBoggle

I'm wondering about the verb

ἔρχομαι

In ancient greek it means both 'I come' and 'I go'.
This, and the fact that it is a deponent medium, makes me wonder whether it might have come from the word

ἔργον

If so, it was used as a verb, ἔργω, meaning 'I work' which in medium would mean 'I work myself' (somewhere), which is to say 'I go' (somewhere). Somewhere along the line, we must imagine, the gamma was aspirated and became a chi.

Does anybody have any comments to this rather speculative etymology?

Regards
MindBoggle


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## Greek Texan

You mean other than the fact that it is speculative?


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## MindBoggle

I suddenly realized that there might be a relation to the Latin *ergo*, meaning_ 'I conclude' _or _'I arrive at'_. In medium voice this might become _'I make myself arrive at' _X, which is to say_ 'I go to' _X.
Maybe this strenghtens the case?


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## MindBoggle

Greek Texan said:


> You mean other than the fact that it is speculative?



Yes, I hoped that maybe somebody had some information or idea that might falsify or corroborate the theory.


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## Perseas

They are different._

Έργο_ comes from the PIE root _*werg_. It is related to the German _Werk_, English _work, _Swedish_ verk_. The word _όργανο (organ)_ is also a cognate.

_Έρχομαι_ has PIE root _*ser_. According to another view it is a cognate to the sanskrit _rcchati_ meaning _to reach, achieve_. See the German verb _erreichen_.


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## sotos

MindBoggle said:


> Does anybody have any comments to this rather speculative etymology?



This is what this forum is for. 
Conventional etymology doesn't connect these 2 words. the v. έρχομαι has also the stem ηλ- in past tenses. The έργον and v. εργώ don't. However, these words are related by elementary physics. Thus in physics we have the unit _ergium _(a bit obsolete today). I see that there is a 3rd word physically and acousticallly connected with these two: έλκω (to pull). But this is only a minor addition to your speculation. You could investigate the possibility of  ελκω  produced from the root *werk through rhotacism.


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## MindBoggle

sotos said:


> This is what this forum is for.



- and this was exactly the discussion I was trying to have. Thank you. 

Rhotacism is a possible source, it's true. I cannot judge whether or not the hypothetical consonant change is likely to have occured in this way. I was wondering, also, whether the it might be due to some sort of shift in tempus. Futures normally add an s. Hypothesizing a word like ἔργω, 'I work', the future should be ερξω (right?), but are there examples of irregular futures with +aspiration in stead of +s? Or might there have been? The idea would be that _'I shall be working myself to X' _or _'I shall be arriving at X' _would mean _'I go to X'_.

Is this a possible genesis? Anybody knows of a similar case?


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## sotos

A small correction: The v. that means work is έργω (http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/hopper...betic+letter=*e:entry+group=248:entry=e)/rgw2), while εργώ has the meaning of enclose, trap and something like this. I'm not sure about the tenses of εργώ because this is a rare form. I only know the hortative εργά in the 10 commandments (O' , Ex. 20, 2 ...). The usual form is εργάζομαι, fut. εργάσ-ομαι, past ειργάσ-θην or ειργασ-άμην etc.  
Regarding the v. έλκω, the archaic form was Fελκω and later the F was reduced to aspiration ("δασεία"). So, looks close to werk, work. 

The following is not exactly linguistic but a curiosity of languages: "Labour" means also "to give birth" and the latter in Gr. is related to the v. έρχομαι or the v. ελευθερώ (to free), these two verbs possibly etymologically related. I had posted some more on that in a thread about the words meaning "people" (leute).


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## XiaoRoel

Según Chantraine, en griego antiguo ἕρχομαι, 'ir, venir' (a veces 'marchar'), sólo tiene un tema de presente, y el imperfecto es raro y se usa el de εἶμι (en griego tardío y en el _Nuevo testamento_ es frecuente, y con preverbios en ático). Se conoce su empleo desde Homero hasta el griego tardío en concurrencia con ἐκ-, εἰσ-, πορεύομαι.
No hay palabras derivadas de este verbo. Lo suplementan en la conjugación formas de εἶμι y de ἐλεὐσομαι. En griego moderno tenemos ἕρχομαι, ἧρθα 'venir, llegar'.
No hay etimología segura. Una hipótesis es la de Meillet que parte de la idea de que este presente expresa un término del proceso (como a veces en Homero) y por ello plantea un sufijo *-χε/ο- que aportaría este significado aspectual (término del movimiento). Así reconstruye una raíz *_*ser*_- (relacionada con el scr. _si-sar-ti_ 'deslizarse, apresurarse', con ἕρπω (y con el armenio _erl'am_ 'ir', quizás de un presente sufijado en -th- con alargamiento en *-ā-), y explica la psilosis como disimilación de aspiradas. El problema de esta teoría es que los datos no aseguran el valor aspectual de término del movimiento como lo antiguo para ἕρχομαι.
Otra teoría es la que plantea como base *ἕρσκομαι, que tendría relación con el scr. ṛccháti 'esperar' e hitita aršk-.
En cuanto a ϝέργον 'trabajo, obra', como ya se ha indicado supra de *werκ- (con conocidos cognatos en germánico), el tema es muchos más complicado, pero sus complicaciones tienen que ver con su vocalismo que aparece pleno con *e/o y reducido con *ṛ, y con soluciones varias y muy complicadas, con acciones analógicas en varios sentidos que afectan a la vocalización de la sonante y a la evolución de gamma ante el sufijo *-yo que provoca las formas que pierden la gamma como (ϝ)έρδω.
*Pero en ningún caso son relacionables etimológicamente ἔρχομαι y ἔργον.* Esto desde el punto de vista lingüístico. 
Ya no me pronuncio sobre analogías debidas a sistemas de pensamiento o a entretenimientos de sobremesa. Pero desde la filología clásica e indoeuropea, ambas palabras son *absolutamente de orígenes diferentes* y *no pueden relacionarse* ni con las más finas acrobacias de la argumentación.


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## MindBoggle

Thank you all for your kind contributions.
XiaoRoel: While I understand your post, my Spanish is not good enough to appreciate the details of it, let alone give an appropriate answer. But I gather that you believe there can be no connection between the two words in question. Fair enough. I rest my case.

Thanks.


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## XiaoRoel

> Thank you all for your kind contributions.
> XiaoRoel: While I understand your post, my Spanish is not good enough to appreciate the details of it, let alone give an appropriate answer. But I gather that you believe there can be no connection between the two words in question. Fair enough. I rest my case.
> 
> Thanks.


I am *sure* it *is not possible** etymological connection* between the two words


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## MindBoggle

XiaoRoel said:


> I am *sure* it *is not possible** etymological connection* between the two words



Yes, I understood that, and you give good reasons too. Thanks 

(maybe I should try that in Spanish...)

Si, yo comprendo, et muy buenos razones tu dones. Gracias.

(that was horrible, I know. Sorry. 'Learn Spanish' is still on my to-do list).


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