# Why aren't YouTube links allowed in the language forums?



## lilison

MOD NOTE: This question has been moved out of a discussion thread on another forum to the C&S Forum.
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I am still waiting for an explanation as to why songs are "not allowable" in language forums...


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## Kelly B

I think songs are ok - I have the impression that the issue is the youtube link (impossible to police in the main forums when you factor in spammers and copyright issues) and the fact that the extract is rather long.


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## wildan1

Hello lilison,

I have moved your question to the Comments & Suggestions Forum, where such questions of policy and procedure within WRF are discussed.

As a moderator, I am responsible for checking any link that a member posts in a language thread to make sure they are appropriate and not violating copyright laws--and I do my best to do so. 

With a brief document link, that is fairly easy. YouTube links are generally long and honestly, we do not have the time as mods to do such verification.

A further explanation for this is given by a moderator colleague in this previous thread.


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## zaffy

Can you tell me why the forum rules forbid users to paste YT links in English Only? It would be so helpful for all users to set posts/inquiries in context.


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## Peterdg

As far as I know, this is to avoid copyright claims to the site owner.


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## zaffy

No, never.  Links can be shared with anyone and anywhere you want. If the channel owner doesn't want that, they may disable that option.


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## DonnyB

It's partly to do with copyright, but it's also to deter the type of question which asks "What does he/she say at point _x:xx_ in the video: I can't hear/understand it"  These are almost always unanswerable without watching it, and thus violate the principle that in our language forums the question should, as far as is reasonably practicable, be answerable from the information given in the post.

There is also the problem that because of copyright restrictions, video clips on some sites are sometimes not accessible in certain countries (I _think_ the way that works is that they block the IP you're using - but don't quote me on that ).

And finally there is the problem that YouTube in particular is notorious for removing videos at no notice either because of alleged copyright infringement or because the person who uploaded it has taken it down.   Either way, it usually renders the question impossible to subsequently answer, and thus the thread is then virtually useless from the point of view of building up an archived database of information.


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## swift

TrentinaNE said:


> Some of the moderators would also ask forer@s to bear in mind that *WRF is not an audio forum*. WRF is a supplement to the WR dictionary. Threads are meant to be "timeless" so that they can help currently unknown users in the future. Threads that ask "please click on the video I uploaded and evaluate my pronunciation" are of extremely limited usefulness to other people. In addition, such links often expire after several days or weeks, leaving behind a virtually worthless thread. We do recognize the importance of listening and speaking for learners of languages. That does not mean that WRF is the proper venue for honing those skills.


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## zaffy

DonnyB said:


> It's partly to do with copyright, but it's also to deter the type of question which asks "What does he/she say at point _x:xx_ in the video: I can't hear/understand it" These are almost always unanswerable without watching it, and thus violate the principle that in the language forums the question should, as far as is reasonably practicable, be answerable from the information given in the post.
> 
> There is also the problem that because of copyright restrictions, video clips on some sites are sometimes not accessible in certain countries (I _think_ the way that works is that they block the IP you're using - but don't quote me on that ).
> 
> And finally there is the problem that YouTube in particular is notorious for removing videos at no notice either because of alleged copyright infringement or because the person who uploaded it has taken it down. Either way, it usually renders the question impossible to subsequently answer, and thus the thread is then virtually useless from the point of view of building up an archived database of information.



OK, yes, there might be a problem if a video gets deleted by YT or the owner. Yet, I guess one could, for example, explain their enquiry deeply and add that they came across it in a video called ..... (and provides the title and the time) instead of providing the link. Just like we provide titles of books in threads One day I provided just the title of a video and my post was edited and the link got deleted.

So I would recommend allowing users to provide titles of YT videos, with the condition that the exact time when a given phrase was used is provided.

Wouldn't it help us all if I could provide at least the title rather than sending the link in a private conversation?


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> OK, yes, there might be a problem if a video gets deleted by YT or the owner. Yet, I guess one could, for example, explain their enquiry deeply and add that they came across it in a video called ..... (and provides the title and the time) instead of providing the link. Just like we provide titles of books in threads. One day I provided just the title of a video and my post was edited and the link got deleted.
> 
> So I would recommend allowing users to provide titles of YT videos, with the condition that the exact time when a given phrase was used is provided.


It depends on how you've framed the question.

As I've explained, links are a no-no, but as long as there's no suggestion that members need to watch the video in order to be able to answer it, I can't off the top of my head think of a reason why there should be any great objection to giving the title of the video_ and nothing else_ as your source, in the same way that you would cite the title of a book, a song or a poem.


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## zaffy

DonnyB said:


> I can't off the top of my head think of a reason why there should be any great objection to giving the title of the video_ and nothing else_ as your source, in the same way that you would cite the title of a book, a song or a poem.



Exactly, but this needs to be clear in the forum rules. As I said, knowing there might be no YT links, I once provided just the title and it got deleted with the moderator note saying I broke the forum rules.


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> Exactly, but this needs to be clear in the forum rules.


I thought it was. This is what Rule 4 says:
No audio or  video files or links may be inserted without prior moderator approval.


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## zaffy

I meant it needed to be clear that video titles may be inserted, so that no moderator edits my post and accuses me of breaching the forum rules.


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## DonnyB

zaffy said:


> I meant it needed to be clear that video titles may be inserted, so that no moderator edits my post and accuses me of breaching the forum rules.


I would have said that was covered by Rule 4, too:
Always acknowledge the source. 

Having now explained the background to questions based on video links (and perhaps I should add that I'm not aware of any plans to change our policy on this) I think you might perhaps find it easier to simply find a forum or a site where links to audio/video files are allowed, if they're the type of questions you want to ask, rather than struggle to keep within the rules we have for our language forums here and end up not getting the range of answers which you'd receive as a result of people actually watching the clip.


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## studencik

That's so dumb.


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## DonnyB

studencik said:


> That's so dumb.


As a moderator who has to remove at least one every day, posted in contravention of the rules, I'm not _personally_ unsympathetic to that point of view. However, the rules are what they are and as I indicated in post #14, there are no plans that I know of to change them.


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## WadiH

The explanations all focus around questions, but often a video clip is useful to illustrate a point as part of an answer or discussion underneath a question.  The link may go bad after a while, but that's no different from a link to a document or any other webpage.

[...]


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## DonnyB

Wadi Hanifa said:


> The explanations all focus around questions, but often a video clip is useful to illustrate a point as part of an answer or discussion underneath a question.  The link may go bad after a while, but that's no different from a link to a document or any other webpage.
> 
> [...]


There's nothing to stop you inserting a screenshot as an image attchment: I've seen a lot of people do that.  In a lot of instances it would serve roughly the same purpose.


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