# Pronounciation: ذ / ظ



## Xander2024

Hello everyone,

could a native speaker please tell me if there is a difference in pronounciation between the letters ذ and ظ?

A grammar book for universities says ظ is an emphatic sound with the tongue behind the teeth. But what I’ve seen and heard in online manuals is quite to the contrary. An online scheme here http://www.arabiq.ru/lessons/?kursy=pg22 shows clearly that the tongue is put between the upper and lower teeth and the sound is the same as ذ . I’m at a loss as to which source to believe.

Thanks a lot.


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## AndyRoo

Xander2024 said:


> could a native speaker please tell me if there is a difference in pronounciation between the letters ذ and ظ?


I'm not a native speaker, but I can tell you there is a difference between the pronunciation of these two letters.


Xander2024 said:


> A grammar book for universities says ظ is an emphatic sound with the tongue behind the teeth. But what I’ve seen and heard in online manuals is quite to the contrary. An online scheme here http://www.arabiq.ru/lessons/?kursy=pg22 shows clearly that the tongue is put between the upper and lower teeth and the sound is the same as ذ . I’m at a loss as to which source to believe.


For ظ the tongue is between the teeth, as illustrated in the link you gave. Maybe the sources which mentioned behind the teeth, were referring to the letter ط


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## Xander2024

So what exactly is the difference, Andy? 

In those online courses, they both sound the same, somewhat like the English "th" in "that". It is that university grammar book (a renowned one in Russia, by the way) that says ظ is to be pronounced with the tongue behind the teeth. 

Thank you.

P.S. I've downloaded another grammar book with some mp3 files and when the alphabet is being read aloud, I hear the same "th" sound in both cases.


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## AndyRoo

ذ is the same as the English "th" in "that", but ظ is emphatic and has no English equivalent. It is the same difference between د/ض and س/ص and ت/ط


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## Xander2024

Okay, it is more emphatic but it is still interdental, right?

Thank you.


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## AndyRoo

Yes, that's right as far as I'm aware.


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## Xander2024

Thank you for the help, Andy.


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## clevermizo

ظ is interdental in standard pronunciation so it has the same place of articulation as ذ. It is emphatic, which means that the back of the tongue rises towards the velar ridge or the soft palate, creating a "heavy" or "dark" effect. In ذ, the tongue is flat, but in ظ the tongue slopes downwards.


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## Xander2024

Thanks, Clevermizo.


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## arabiya123456

ظ could also in standard pronunciation be an emfatic "z" i.e. a dental/alveolar voiced fricative. That could be the reason for the "behind the teeth" explanation


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## Xander2024

Does it depend on the particular word or a dialect whether ظ should be interdental or "behind-the-teeth"? 

Thank you.


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## clevermizo

arabiya123456 said:


> ظ could also in standard pronunciation be an emfatic "z" i.e. a dental/alveolar voiced fricative. That could be the reason for the "behind the teeth" explanation


Actually the emphatic [Z] (ẓ) sound is not the standard pronunciation. The standard pronunciation is interdental. However, it may occur idiosyncratically as influence from particular dialects. Several dialects (notably in the urban Levant and Egypt) use either Z or D as realizations for etymological ظ.


Xander2024 said:


> Does it depend on the particular word or a dialect whether ظ should be interdental or "behind-the-teeth"?


The standard pronunciation is always interdental, to my knowledge. Like I said above, certain dialects realize this sound different ways (and many dialects have merged ض/ظ completely), but in standard Arabic it should be interdental. You may even hear plain/non-emphatic _z_ (alveolar) as a realization for ذ - i.e. هزا for هذا. This is dialectal influence however and is not considered "correct" pronunciation.


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## Xander2024

Thanks for the explanation, Clevermizo.


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## arabiya123456

clevermizo said:


> The standard pronunciation is always interdental, to my knowledge.


Well it depends what we mean by "standard pronunciation". To my knowledge MSA in Egypt and to some degree the Levant will be spoken with the emphatic [Z] (ẓ) sound for ظ, and could thus be considered "standard" much in the same way as the different MSA-pronunciations of ج.


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## إسكندراني

In Egyptian schools they tell you off if you use z or g. It is acceptable but not 'standard'.


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## arabiya123456

Wow, is that really true? I'm not a native speaker and have not attended schools in Egypt, but I have lived there for some years and don't recall ever hearing MSA with other than g for ج, (well maybe in religious discourse?). I would say the same for emphatic z for ظ.

I guess this highlights the differences between a descriptive and prescriptive approach to "standard" Arabic.


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## إسكندراني

We know it's 'wrong', but we accept it in regular usage.


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## cigogne

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hi,

I wonder if the place of articulation for ظ is the same as ط. If not, would you please explain to me how to pronounce it?

Thank you!


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