# τρώω τις σάρκες μου.



## eno2

Hello

 τρώω τις σάρκες μου.

What does this expression mean? How is it used?
(from the definition of σάρκα)


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## dmtrs

It is used when someone lives through an unpleasant situation with self-pity and suffering without any reaction that would successfully deal with the situation.
Αντί να ψάχνει για νέα δουλειά, απ'όταν τον απόλυσαν τρώει τις σάρκες του.
Πρέπει κάτι να κάνουμε, δεν είναι λύση να τρώμε τις σάρκες μας.
Έχει απελπιστεί. Είναι κλεισμένος στο σπίτι του και τρώει τις σάρκες του.

(I believe there's a slight similarity to 'eat one's heart out' in some uses.)

(σάρκα means flesh)


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## eno2

(That I knew, that's the easy part.
In fact, it was not. In Dutch,, like in Spanish and German, we have only one word : Vlees, Fleisch, and Carne;  so I was looking  up the difference in use of  σάρκα  and  κρέας. which is more or less the same as flesh and meat.)
Thanks for the clear example.


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## dmtrs

eno2 said:


> ( [,,,] σάρκα and κρέας [...] is more or less the same as flesh and meat)



That's correct.


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## eno2

I must say, WR  Eng<=>Greek wasn't helpful enough on flesh and meat.


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## dmtrs

Σάρκα _mainly _refers to the living soft tissues of an animal (including humans), opposed to bones, horns, claws, nails, feathers, blood etc. Therefore ενσάρκωση=incarnation.
Κρέας _mainly _refers to the same thing, but as something one can eat; therefore it is 'dead flesh', usually cut in pieces in order to be sold or cooked and served.
There are other uses, of course: σάρκα can be used for the soft parts of a fruit, or for the naked human body, or for the material/mortal part of man [body, opposed to soul] in a dualistic context (usually religious) etc.


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## eno2

Food  (Κρέας ) for another thread  ....  I read most definitions in the languages I know or study. But it's still somewhat problematic here and there, especially in the one-word languages. How can one not make (semantic) difference between meat and flesh, by  having only one word for it?
Is fish meat?


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## dmtrs

eno2 said:


> How can one not make (semantic) difference between meat and flesh, by having only one word for it?



?

I think you should enlighten the rest of us, eno2, since your mother tongue, as you mentioned, uses one word for meat and flesh!
Clearly you have survived the lack of distinction!


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## eno2

Meat doesn't exist for us, it's all 'vlees'= flesh.  We have to (learn to) treat meat like meat in other languages.
I was very surprised to learn  that the Greek 'eat their own flesh ( treating  their own flesh like meat).


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## dmtrs

The phrase creates a very strong image, indeed.
But 'eating flesh' is not unique there. Carnivorous animals are called _σαρκοβόρα _or _σαρκοφάγα _in Greek, something that points out the fact that they kill their (live) prey in order to feed. Animals that feed on dead animals are called _πτωματοφάγα _(=scavengers). 
Another interesting use of _σάρκα_ is in _σαρκοφάγος=_sarcophagus_, _adopted unaltered in English (the ancient coffin).
The page σαρκοφάγος - Ελληνοαγγλικό Λεξικό WordReference.com might be of interest.
_Σάρκα_ becomes _κρέας _usually after human intervention, some kind of civilization, I think.


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## Perseas

eno2 said:


> I was very surprised to learn  that the Greek 'eat their own flesh ( treating  their own flesh like meat).


Metaphorically. 


eno2 said:


> Is fish meat?


Technically not.

PS. Bear  in my mind that "sarcasm" (Gr. "σαρκασμός") comes from "σάρκα" (="flesh"). Also, for "to express sarcasm" Greek uses the verb "σαρκάζω" which literally means "to slash flesh"!


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## eno2

Slash flesh...Most of these words (the sarcophagus, sarcasm, etc) are cognates in many languages, of course.
Κρέας  wasn't so etymologically fertile. I suppose creativity, creationism etc don't have anything to do with Κρέας . Crematorium?  No.

Fish is technically flesh. Flesh that is killed for consumption is meat. By the way if we want to indicate the difference between vlees (Σάρκα  ) and vlees (Κρέας) in Dutch, we have to use a compound,_ slachtvlees_, which means literally 'slaughtered flesh'.  It's a word that's seldom used.
Vegetarians don't eat fish. But some vegetarians gone astray do eat fish, arguing that fish isn't meat and so as vegetarians, they can eat it....
True vegetarians do not eat  any produce from killed animals.


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## Perseas

eno2 said:


> Κρέας  wasn't so etymologically fertile. I suppose creativity, creationism etc don't have anything to do with Κρέας . Crematorium?  No.


My etymology dictionary states that "κρέας" is a cognate with Latin _crudus_ (cruor=blood), German _roh_, English _raw_ and Dutch _rauw_.


eno2 said:


> Fish is technically flesh. Flesh that is killed for consumption is meat.


In nutritrional contexts we separate "κρέας" from "ψάρι".
"κρέας ή ψάρι" - Google Search


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## eno2

I could be forgiven to have missed that etymological relation but it seems to be the case yes. .Interesting. 
 Raw and kreas certainly don't sound as cognates,  Neither do raw and crudus sound similar.. Crudus is recognisable in the French and Portuguese cru and the English crude and the German krude and the Spanish crudo. 
Flesh =>The soft substance consisting of muscle and fat that is found between the skin and bones of a human or an animal.  (Oxford)
σάρκα 1α. το μυώδες μέρος του σώματος των ανθρώπων και των ζώων, (Portal) 
So technically fish have flesh. 
Meat: The flesh of an animal, (Oxford)  (doesn't speak of 'food') 
*κρέας* το [kréas] Ο51 *:* *1.* η σάρκα των ζώων ως τροφή του ανθρώπου:  That includes fish.
Nutritionally fish is fish, that is to say it gets named and treated as fish,  and not meat,  but is is still flesh, and therefor vegetarians  don't consume it nutritionally.


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## Armas

Just to complicate things a bit more, how do you translate ψαχνό, which means meat as opposed to bones? It's a verb too: ξεψαχνίζω = to separate meat from bones.

Κρέας has given at least 'creatine' if nothing else.


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## eno2

Creatine: Thought of it, didn't mention it....

ξεψαχνίζω  WR gives debone 

For fish, it's to fillet, I'd like to add, to bone and to debone is for fish and meat.


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## dmtrs

Armas said:


> how do you translate ψαχνό, which means meat as opposed to bones



Ψαχνό is, as you say, used in order to clarify that we talk about meat without bones (and visible fat); when you use _κρέας _for a dish you do not clarify if it is bone-free.
Interesting phrase: 'χτυπάνε στο ψαχνό'=they shoot to kill.
_Ξεψαχνίζω_ (metaphorically) also means _interrogate discreetly but thoroughly, in order to find out what someone knows but does not want to share._


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