# synagogue



## Kaju1992

Synagogue in arabic, any old term ?
According to the modern dictionaries is

معبد اليهودي and كنيس

But in Wikipedia they say

*كنيس* (*בית כנסת* _بيت كنيست_ بالعبرية) أو *صلوات*[1] أو*بيعة* أ

صلوات and بيعة is still used and understood today ?

Thank you


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## Marko55

In the Arabic Bible *synagogue* is مَجْمَع.

E.g. Acts 18:4
And he reasoned in the* synagogue* every sabbath.
وَكَانَ يُحَاجُّ فِي *الْمَجْمَعِ* كُلَّ سَبْتٍ


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## fdb

In classical Arabic _kanīs_ is “synagogue” and _kanīsa_ is usually “church”, but sometimes “synagogue”.


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## cherine

I don't know if non-Christian Arabic speakers would understand مجمع out of context.
Personally, the words I know are كنيس and the one most commonly in use مَعبد/معبد يهودي


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## She'lock Holmes

'معبد يهودي' is understood by anyone but might sound offensive to a Jew. You could use 'كنيس يهودي' and remove 'يهودي' after the first use to avoid any possible misunderstanding but a sizeable number of Arabophones would know 'كنيس' anyway.



Kaju1992 said:


> *صلوات*[1] أو*بيعة* أ
> 
> صلوات and بيعة is still used and understood today ?


I never heard it before and I definitely wouldn't understand it without a prior explanation.


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## Qureshpor

fdb said:


> In classical Arabic _kanīs_ is “synagogue” and _kanīsa_ is usually “church”, but sometimes “synagogue”.


Is "kaliisaa" also used for "church" or "synagogue" in Arabic? This word is found in Persian and Urdu.


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## fdb

I know قليس qalīs (Abraha’s cathedral in Sanaa, on the spot now occupied by the Great Mosque), but I think كليسا is only used in Persian. Both, of course, stand for the Greek ekklesia.


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## Qureshpor

Thank you fdb. In Urdu, coming via Persian perhaps, I believe كليسا is used for a church.


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## elroy

She'lock Holmes said:


> 'معبد يهودي' is understood by anyone but might sound offensive to a Jew.


 Why would it be offensive to a Jew?


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## apricots

elroy said:


> Why would it be offensive to a Jew?



Only reform Jews refer to their place of worship as a "temple," whereas to the conservative and orthodox communities the only temple is that in Jerusalem.


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## elroy

But معبد doesn’t mean “temple”; the word for “temple” is هيكل.

معبد is just literally “place of worship.”


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## cherine

apricots said:


> to the conservative and orthodox communities the only temple is that in Jerusalem.


Interesting. I didn't know that.


elroy said:


> معبد is just literally “place of worship.”


That is the understanding based on the root of the word معبد (from the verb عَبَدَ) but the word معبد is indeed used for temples, even pharaonic temples are called معابد فرعونية in Arabic.


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## elroy

In the context of _Jewish_ places of worship, I've always understood معبد to mean "synagogue."  As I said, "temple" in the Jewish context is هيكل.  That's the word used in the Van Dyke translation of the Bible, and no one calls the temple in Jerusalem the "معبد."


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## apricots

A conservative Jewish Arabic speaker would have to confirm but in English the distinction is as I've said. Soloman's Temple is called معبد سليمان or بيت المعبد الاول or as elroy has said هيكل سليمان. There is a synagogue in Morocco called "معبد بيت إيل" or בית הכנסת בית-אל so that would indicate that ma3bad doesn't share the same relationship with sect as it does in English.


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## Ihsiin

To me معبد simply indicates ‘worshiping place,’ whereas the English _temple_ particularly indicates non-Abrahamic worshiping places, whereas the Abrahamic faiths tend to have _synagogues_, _churches_ and _mosques_ (the exception being Solomon’s Temple, of course). I don’t think Jews would take offence at the use of the word معبد for _synagogue_ - having said that, my go-to word would be كنيس.

Also, for what it’s worth, it seems the Qur’an uses the word محراب for this.


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## elroy

apricots said:


> A conservative Jewish Arabic speaker would have to confirm


 Confirm what? 


apricots said:


> in English the distinction is as I've said


 No one is disputing the English distinction you've made.  In fact, if anything I'm supporting it by saying that معبد = "synagogue" and هيكل = "temple." 


apricots said:


> Soloman's Temple is called معبد سليمان or بيت المعبد الاول or as elroy has said هيكل سليمان.


 I've only ever heard هيكل سليمان, and as someone who grew up in Jerusalem in a conservative Christian household, this is something I've heard _*a lot*_.


apricots said:


> There is a synagogue in Morocco called "معبد بيت إيل" or בית הכנסת בית-אל so that would indicate that ma3bad doesn't share the same relationship with sect as it does in English.


 معبد is a perfectly valid word for "synagogue" in Arabic.  Again, in the context of Judaism, it does not connote "temple" in my experience.  فيروز's famous song زهرة المدائن, which is about Jerusalem, includes the following lines:

عيوننا إليك ترحل كل يوم
تدور في أروقة المعابد
تعانق الكنائس القديمة
وتمسح الحزن عن المساجد

Clearly, the words in red are meant to indicate the respective places of worship of the three monotheistic religions Jerusalem is significant for.  There is no question here that المعابد means "synagogues," not "temples."


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## fdb

In Classical Arabic historians the temple in Jerusalem (which, of course, was completely destroyed during the Roman period) is normally called bayt al-maqdis بيت المقدس . The same term is used for the city of Jerusalem itself.


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## apricots

elroy said:


> Confirm what?



Is it not possible that Muslims and Christians may use different words from Jews? Like the debate over المبكى and حائط البراق.


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## langcur

All this confusion between temple and synagogue is only because of the English language. In Hebrew the word for temple is مِقْدَش
This word is not used for church, mosque or synagogue. This word is used to designate a place of worship and ceremonies of the following religions: Hinduism, ancient extinct religions (Greek, Roman, Babylonian, etc.), Shintu (Japan). This word is used to designate the ancient Jewish temple in Jerusalem. Only after the مِقْدَش was destroyed in 70 A.D, synagogues were introduced to the Jewish religion.


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