# У вас есть братья?/У вас есть брат?



## cheshire

I read that when you ask a person if he has any brothers you could say "У вас есть братья ?" but "...брат?" is more usual. I learned that asking "Do you have a brother?" is strange in English.

In English using plural forms for countable noun is the unmarked way, but what about Russian? I suppose the opposite is true in Russian.


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## Setwale_Charm

Somebody has viciously mislead you!! _Have you got brothers_ is "У вас есть братья?" 
 _Have you got a brother_?  is "У вас есть брат?"


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## Q-cumber

брат = a brother
брать = to take

Speaking about brothers, here's a joke:



> A boy is about to go on his first date, and is nervous about what to talk about. He asks his father for advice.
> The father replies, "My son, there are three subjects that always work. These are food, family, and philosophy."
> The boy picks up his date and they go to a soda fountain. Ice cream sodas in front of them, they stare at each other for a long time, as the boy's nervousness builds.
> He remembers his father's advice, and chooses the first topic.
> He asks the girl, "Do you like spinach?" She says "No," and the silence returns.
> After a few more uncomfortable minutes, the boy thinks of his father's suggestion and turns to the second item on the list. He asks, "Do you have a brother?" Again, the girl says "No" and there is silence once again.
> The boy then plays his last card. He thinks of his father's advice and asks the girl the following question: "If you had a brother, would he like spinach?"


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## Setwale_Charm

Q-cumber said:


> брат = a brother
> брать = to take


 
Yes but you can`t possible have a sentence like "У вас есть брать?" !!!!


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## Q-cumber

Setwale_Charm said:


> Yes but you can`t possible have a sentence like "У вас есть брать?" !!!!



Nope, I suggest *брат* was what *cheshire* actually meant to say.


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## Setwale_Charm

Unless, somebody is trying to parody the accent of the people of the Far East.


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## palomnik

I don't know whether we're answering Cheshire's question.

As I understand it, Cheshire is saying that in English you would not normally ask "Do you have a brother?" as a general question. This is true; "Do you have a brother?" doesn't sound like a normal inquiry about somebody's family life (which would be "Do you have any brothers?"), but rather as if you have some purpose in mind, like maybe a setting up a blind date or something.

I think Cheshire wants to know whether Russian is like English in this regard, i.e., whether you would say _У вас есть __братья_ or _У вас есть __брат_ for a general inquiry in Russian - a fair question coming from a Japanese speaker, since in Japanese you wouldn't use a plural form for "brother" in this context. 

As far as I know, Russian would prefer _У вас есть братья_ as a general question, but I may be wrong.


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## Q-cumber

palomnik said:


> As far as I know, Russian would prefer _У вас есть братья_ as a general question, but I may be wrong.



Both variants are fine, yet normally we ask about brother(s) and sister(s) at once. *У тебя есть брат или сестра? У тебя есть братья или сёстры? 
* Excepting some special topics, I see no reason why one should ask about brothers only.


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## Setwale_Charm

Well, because one may be interested in whether one has siblings in general or in whether one has brothers


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## palomnik

I think the ultimate question here is whether Russian would treat брат like a collective noun in this circumstance, i.e., does _У вас есть брат_ mean "Do you have any brothers?"  I don't believe that it Russian does this.  _У вас есть морковь_ may translate into English as "Do you have any carrots", but _брат could_ not be used as a collective noun in the same way.


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## dudasd

_У вас есть морковь_ - isn't "_морковь" _genitive of plural here? In which case the question would be "_У вас есть братьев?_", though I am not sure it sounds good.


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## papillon

dudasd said:


> _У вас есть морковь_ - isn't "_морковь" _genitive of plural here? In which case the question would be "_У вас есть братьев?_", though I am not sure it sounds good.


_У вас есть морковь - _here _морковь_ is accusative. On the other hand, in 
_У вас случайно нет моркови? - __моркови_ is indeed genitive.

Similarly, _У вас есть братьев? _is incorrect, should be _У вас есть братья?, _although the negative question _У вас нет братьев? _is correct.


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## Maroseika

papillon said:


> _У вас есть морковь - _here _морковь_ is accusative.


Are you sure it's genitive? Then what's about the following sentences:
Морковь есть?
У меня есть ты.
I guess in both cases *ты* and *морковь* are in the nominative being subjects with the predicate *есть*.


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## papillon

Yes, of course, by accusative I meant *nominative*. Thanks for the correction.


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## Q-cumber

*Морковь* is both singular and countable/countless plural noun. 
*У меня есть одна морковь (две моркови). Дайте мне два килограмма моркови. * The phrase *"У вас есть морковь?"* exactly means "Do you have any *carrots* (plural)". Should we replace *морковь* with *яблоко* (apple), this would become more obvious.  *У вас есть яблоки? Или у вас нет яблок?*   If I want to eat just one apple (or if I mean some particular "*the* apple" you usually have in your pocket), I'd ask *"У тебя есть яблоко?"* instead.  

PS *Морковка* is a more common name for a singular (countable) carrot.


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## Kolan

Далась вам *морковка*... обсуждали же *братьев*, а не *кроликов*.

Обе формы вопроса законны, и *брат*, и *братья*. Первый вариант годится в случае, если я видел человека, похожего на собеседника и хочу удостовериться в совпадении по родственному признаку. (Вспомните кинофильм "Брат-2": "*А у вас брат в Москве есть?*") Второй вопрос лучше звучит, если просто расспрашивать человека о семейном положении.


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## cheshire

Thanks everyone!


Q-cumber said:


> PS *Морковка* is a more common name for a singular (countable) carrot.




That reminds me of лимон*ка*. Is "*ка*" a diminutive?

Palomnik, you're sharp! You are keen at catching the gist of questions! You saved me a lot!

About "markedness", see this.


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## Q-cumber

cheshire said:


> Thanks everyone!
> 
> That reminds me of лимон*ка*. Does "*ка*" a diminutive?



Well, yes and no...  
*Голова* <a head> +ка = *головка* <a small head>.
*Собака* <a dog >->> соба*ч*ка (*к-ч* alternation occurs)
*Корова* <a cow> ---> *коровка* <a small one>
...and so on. Please note all the nouns above are of feminine gender.

*Лимон* <a lemon> is masculine... a diminutive of *лимон *would be лимон*чик* <a tiny lemon>
The word *лимон**ка* is of feminine gender, because *граната* <a grenade> is also feminine. Thus *-ка* in this case changes the original word's gender without a diminutive effect. 

PS I'll try to recollect some similar words.


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## cheshire

Thanks again! You're really good at explaining things!
To sum up, back to my original, you seem to agree that it's just like English.


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## Q-cumber

cheshire said:


> .....To sum up, back to my original, you seem to agree that it's just like English.



I think the Russian rule is just more relaxing. Perhaps the "plural variant" is somewhat more general. On the other hand, familes are seldom big nowadays and normally we don't expect someone has many siblings. That's why we ask about *брат* (брат или сестра).


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## Kolan

Q-cumber said:


> *Лимон* <a lemon> is masculine... a diminutive of *лимон *would be лимон*чик* <a tiny lemon>
> The word *лимон**ка* is of feminine gender, because *граната* <a grenade> is also feminine. Thus *-ка* in this case changes the original word's gender without a diminutive effect.
> 
> PS I'll try to recollect some similar words.


Перечитав сказку про *Чиполлино*, можно легко составить добрый список уменьшительных от *лимона *и других овощей-фруктов.


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## Q-cumber

*Kolan*

Я имел в виду как раз не уменьшительные слова, а вновь образованные при помощи *-ка* по типу "лимонки".

PS Perhaps болванка (cast iron, blank) is the right one - of болван.


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