# Berlusconi potrebbe non comparire in tribunale



## Enigmista

Salve a tutti 

Si parla di legittimo impedimento.Quindi se vince il "no" Berlusconi potrebbe _*non*_ apparire in tribunale ai suoi processi ed è o sarebbe quindi "esentato", se cosi possiamo dire 

Ho dubbi sulla traduzione del titolo, perchè questa negazione nel mezzo mi da noie....ma che renderei solo cosi:

_Berlusconi would have the possibility to not appear in court_

_Berlusconi may not appear in court_



P.s:_ Berlusconi can not appear in court_ (non rispetta la traduzione secondo me e vuol dire un altra cosa)

Mi interesserebbe conoscere il vostro punto di vista 



Grazie a tutti in ogni caso


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## london calling

Enigmista said:


> _Berlusconi would have the possibility to not appear in court_
> 
> _Berlusconi may not appear in court_
> 
> P.s:_ Berlusconi can not appear in court_ (non rispetta la traduzione secondo me e vuol dire un altra cosa)


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## Enigmista

Grazie London ma fammi capire una cosa...



_Berlusconi would have the possibility to not appear in court_

è sbagliata oppure è poco naturale ma corretta??


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## johngiovanni

It's just me, perhaps, but I would not (knowingly) split the infinitive.


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## rrose17

Doesn't _Berlusconi may not appear in court_ mean that he is not *allowed* to do this? Or at least the ambivalence is there. You could in fact say
_Berlusconi would have the right to not appear in court._
I prefer
_Berlusco may or may not appear in court._


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## johngiovanni

Quote: "Doesn't _Berlusconi may not appear in court_ mean that he is not *allowed* to do this?"  No, I don't think it's ambiguous.  "He may not appear in court" seems fine to me.  We are not sure.


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## Enigmista

Guys it means that he's got the choice to appear or not...because the law allows him to exercise that choice


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## rrose17

Sorry if I'm splitting hairs...but tO me when you say "You may not do that." means you are not allowed to do that.
Child: Can I go out an play?
Mother: No, you may not.
On the other hand "Berlusco might not appear in court." is totally unambiguous.


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## Enigmista

OK Rrose maybe "might" is more used in spoken English...but "may" can be used to express permission and also possibility as far as I know


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## johngiovanni

Enigmista said:


> OK Rrose maybe "might" is more used in spoken English...but "may" can be used to express permission and also possibility as far as I know


After 60 plus years of speaking English and almost as many teaching it, I have never been secure about the difference between "may" and "might".  Maybe one day I may/ might understand.


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## Enigmista

Thanks John ...Therefore I think It'll fit either "may not.."" or "might not.." in this context...or also as Rrose suggested "_would have the right to not..._"

Do you all agree ?? 


Thanks to all


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## gandolfo

Hi Rrose 
I see where you are coming from, especially with that expression, also I believe it's very common in AmE and seems to me to be a polite way of saying to someone they can't do something, however may and might are grammatically the same in BritEng. 
For instance when we say "It may not rain today" it's a possibility not a command!

I'm with John on this one


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## italtrav

Ciao a tutti:

Berlusconi would be able to skip any court appearance.
Berlusconi would not need to appear in court.
Berlusconi would not be required to appear in court.
Berlusconi could possibly not appear in court.

But will Ruby appear in court? That's what keen legal minds wish to know.


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## rrose17

No she may not!


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## johngiovanni

It is possible that B will not appear in court.  Can we agree on that?


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## Enigmista

Thanks Ital...in effetti anche "_could possibly not appear in court_" can work in this situation...nice option 

I think  Ruby won't be there for sure 


P.s: John I've already seen your post...Sure I agree with you ...thanks


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## rrose17

Ok one last kick at the can here...
You may kiss the bride. You're her husband now.
You may not kiss the bride. Hey! She's married now.
You might kiss the bride. If you're lucky...
You might not kiss the bride. She's very busy.

Is this not BE as well??


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## johngiovanni

Rrose- That's a very, very good one!  "You may kiss the bride" - formulaic.  Never "you might kiss the bride", except in the examples which you give (and possibly other phrases).


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## gandolfo

rrose17 said:


> Ok one last kick at the can here...
> You may kiss the bride. You're her husband now.
> You may not kiss the bride. Hey! She's married now.
> You might kiss the bride. If you're lucky...
> You might not kiss the bride. She's very busy.
> 
> Is this not BE as well??



Never heard of it in my life 

I'm sticking close to John on this one Rrose! You may not change my mind!!!


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## johngiovanni

See this BBC site for interest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/learningenglish/grammar/learnit/learnitv162.shtml
There are some "fixed" expressions - e.g. "pigs might fly"; "you may kiss the bride". We would never say "pigs may fly"; "you might now kiss the bride" (except in very unusual circumstances.)


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## Enigmista

Si john...il problema è che may e might possono essere utilizzati sia per esprimere possibilità che il permesso di fare un qualcosa...e su questo siamo d'accordo

Non mi è chiaro ancora come tenere distinti i due usi...ma il contesto è decisivo penso...


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## johngiovanni

Capisco, Enigmista. Siamo d'accordo.  We can agree, can we (?) that it is possible B will not have to appear in court.


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## Enigmista

johngiovanni said:


> Capisco, Enigmista. Siamo d'accordo.  We can agree, can we (?) that it is possible B will not have to appear in court.



Agreed...but just out of curiosity John

In the first place, have you understood that sentence (with may) more like a permission or more like a possibility  ??


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## johngiovanni

I am not sure whether I understand your question - or the original Italian. However, I thought that it was possible he would not have to/ may not have to / might not have to (may not/ might not be forced to) appear in court. He may/ might be exempted / excused.  So I think we're talking about a possibility.


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## Enigmista

Yes you've understood correctly...

But I agree that this particular sentence can be interpreted in two ways if we want to use precisely may/might 

1)Berlusconi don't have the permission (by the law) to appear in court or have the permission to not appear in court 

2)There's the possibility that Berlusconi won't be in court (likelihood)


That's what nags me


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## london calling

rrose17 said:


> _Berlusco may or may not appear in court._


Thst's a good idea, as it makes it perfectly clear. 

I must admit that "not allowed to" is not the first thing that springs to mind, but it's certainly a possible interpretation.


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## shardaneng

Qualcuno ha già detto:
"Berlusconi would be allowed no to appear in court" ?


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## london calling

Enigmista said:


> Guys it means that he's got the choice to appear or not...because the law allows him to exercise that choice


In that case:

_B. may choose not to appear in court._

Enig, il concetto che esprimi qui (la scelta) non è chiaro nella frase italiana: è solo sottinteso.


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## cecil

Enigmista said:


> Grazie London ma fammi capire una cosa...
> 
> 
> 
> _Berlusconi would have the possibility to not appear in court_
> 
> è sbagliata oppure è poco naturale ma corretta??


 
I haven't read the whole thread, but it sounds to me as if we're talking options: Berlusconi would have the option to appear in court.


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## london calling

cecil said:


> I haven't read the whole thread, but it sounds to me as if we're talking options: Berlusconi would have the option to appear in court.


See my (and enig's) latest posts.


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## cecil

london calling said:


> See my (and enig's) latest posts.


 
Yep, you covered it.


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## Enigmista

london calling said:


> Enig, il concetto che esprimi qui (la scelta) non è chiaro nella frase italiana: è solo sottintesa.



Yes London you're right 

Il "dubbio" se cosi possiamo dire, rimane nel mio post 25...in quanto alla fine della fiera  penso proprio che in assenza di ulteriori specificazioni, la frase che ho proposto possa essere interpretata in due modi diversi .
Non so se quanto espresso nel mio post n.25 fosse abbastanza chiaro 

Ad ogni modo grazie a tutti per le tanti opzioni offerte

Buona giornata


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