# divine philosopher



## dubey

illlud in his rebus nequaquam sumere possis,
democriti quod sancta viri sententia ponit,

hi, what i am looking for really is an adverb to describe 'democriti.

here is a list of translations i have found:

divine philosopher
great democritus
reverent democritus

for my purpose , I would dearly love 'divine philosopher' to an acceptable , if slightly tenuous, translation. Is it?


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## diegodbs

dubey said:
			
		

> illlud in his rebus nequaquam sumere possis,
> democriti quod sancta viri sententia ponit,
> 
> hi, what i am looking for really is an adverb to describe 'democriti.
> 
> here is a list of translations i have found:
> 
> divine philosopher
> great democritus
> reverent democritus
> 
> for my purpose , I would dearly love 'divine philosopher' to an acceptable , if slightly tenuous, translation. Is it?


 
I'd rather translate "democriti viri" as great Democritus (he was a materialist philosopher), but... it's up to you.


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## dubey

i do not speak a word of latin, but i understand that sancta means holy. 
(i am not religious, by the way)


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## diegodbs

dubey said:
			
		

> i do not speak a word of latin, but i understand that sancta means holy.
> (i am not religious, by the way)


Sorry, I thought you understood Latin. 
- divus = divine
- sanctus = holy

So, given that Democritus was a materialist philosopher, I'd say "the great Democritus", or better "of the great Democritus", since "Democriti....viri" is in the genitive case.


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## diegodbs

Democriti.....viri....

In Latin "vir" means "man".


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## dubey

thanks your help. but given that the passage is taken from a poem, and that poetry is given to ambiguities ... where does the sanctus fit in? Is it an adverb, and if so, what does it relate to? I know that he was a materialst philospoher, but even materialists can believe in god, albeit a distant one.


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## diegodbs

dubey said:
			
		

> thanks your help. but given that the passage is taken from a poem, and that poetry is given to ambiguities ... where does the sanctus fit in? Is it an adverb, and if so, what does it relate to? I know that he was a materialst philospoher, but even materialists can believe in god, albeit a distant one.


 
"democriti quod sancta viri sententia" 

Sancta relates to sententia 
Viri relates to Democriti

Sancta can mean holy, but also praiseworthy.

The praiseworthy sayings/sentences of the great Democritus.

Christianism made that the word "sanctus" had the meaning that we know today. Before that, "sanctus" was praiseworthy, honorable, venerable, etc.


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## dubey

The anachronism is what first drew to the problem. your translation coincides with rouse's and hutchinson's. But I was rather perplexed to find two translators - melvlille and smith - translate the phrase simply as 'divine philosopher'. Perhaps it is a case of the blind leading the blind, but the uniformity aroused my attention. Is there an ambiguity in the line that might excuse their interpretation, weak as it undoubtably is? Or is the grammer quite secure in relating sancta to sententia? What i mean is, could the line be accurately translated as 

 'the great sentences of the praiseworthy demotricus'


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## diegodbs

dubey said:
			
		

> The anachronism is what first drew to the problem. your translation coincides with rouse's and hutchinson's. But I was rather perplexed to find two translators - melvlille and smith - translate the phrase simply as 'divine philosopher'. Perhaps it is a case of the blind leading the blind, but the uniformity aroused my attention. Is there an ambiguity in the line that might excuse their interpretation, weak as it undoubtably is? Or is the grammer quite secure in relating sancta to sententia? What i mean is, could the line be accurately translated as
> 
> 'the great sentences of the praiseworthy demotricus'


 
There is no ambiguity in the line. Word order in Latin is quite free, since case endings determined the function of words. That's why "Democriti" and "viri" are separated, and "sancta" and "sententia" are separated too in the sentence.
Sancta and sententia share the same gender and the same case. Democriti and viri share the same gender and the same case. It's impossible to relate Democriti (genitive, masc. gender) to sancta (nominative, feminine gender).
In a free, very free and very relaxed translation you could say Divine Democritus, but it's grammaticallly incorrect and historically incorrect to assume that sancta meant holy in pre Christian times.
Although "vir" means "man/male" in Latin, and a literal translation would be "Democritus the man", it seems more appropriate to translate it as "the great/famous Democritus".
I can't understand why those two authors translated it as "the divine Democritus".


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## dubey

Thank you very much, I will footnote the library books accordingly. I had no idea that latin was such a verstile and free language (regarding word order).


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## diegodbs

dubey said:
			
		

> Thank you very much, I will footnote the library books accordingly. I had no idea that latin was such a verstile and free language (regarding word order).


That's why, although 80% of Spanish words are of Latin origin, Latin is a really difficult language. Syntax and word order can be a nightmare


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