# Etymology: Slav, Slavic



## se16teddy

templar414 said:
			
		

> I always thought that it has something to do with the part of the Croatia where I live, which is called Slavonija.


 
The element slav / slov occurs in at least the following names for Slavonic countries, nations and languages (and of course their equivalents in other languages!)  
- Slav, slavic, slavonic
- Slavonia
- Slovak / Slovakia
- Slovenia / Slovenian
- Yugoslav (i.e. South Slav).  

I think that this element in all these words derives from the name that the Slavs called themselves when they spoke a single language (about a millennium ago).  

I think there are two main theories on the origin of that name 
1) the word slovo, which meant 'word' (at least it does in Russian now), or 
2) the word slava, which meant 'glory' (at least it does in Russian now).  
i.e. the Slavs thought of themselves either as the glorious people, or the people with words (everybody else being unintellible of course).


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## natasha2000

se16teddy said:
			
		

> I think there are two main theories on the origin of that name
> 1) the word *slovo,* which meant *'word'* (at least it does in Russian now), or
> 2) the word *slava*, which meant *'glory'* (at least it does in Russian now).
> i.e. the slavs thought of themselves either as the glorious people, or the people with words (everybody else being unintellible of course).


 
Exactly the same meaning in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian.

Nice interpretation, I like it. 

Although, I cannot let passing unnoticed one thing: in Romanic and Germanic languages, the word meaning Slav is a very similar to word meaning SLAVE.
Slav - Slave in English
eslavo - esclavo in Spanish
and I am sure that the same happens in many other languages.


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## skye

se16teddy said:
			
		

> I think there are two main theories on the origin of that name
> 1) the word slovo, which meant 'word' (at least it does in Russian now), or
> 2) the word slava, which meant 'glory' (at least it does in Russian now).
> i.e. the slavs thought of themselves either as the glorious people, or the people with words (everybody else being unintellible of course).


 
I think the word comes from Indo-European *sleu or something similar and it is thought that it meant marsh, because our ancestors lived in such areas. At least that's what I remember from college, but it's been a while and I'd need to check.

edit: didn't find anything to confirm this with google, but I found an interesting link which offers several explanations:
http://www.answers.com/topic/slavs


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## se16teddy

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> Exactly the same meaning in Serbian/Croatian/Bosnian.
> 
> Nice interpretation, I like it.
> 
> Although, I cannot let passing unnoticed one thing: in Romanic and Germanic languages, the word meaning Slav is a very similar to word meaning SLAVE.
> Slav - Slave in English
> eslavo - esclavo in Spanish
> and I am sure that the same happens in many other languages.


 
One of the main wharves in Venice is the 'Riva Schiavoni'.  City guides tell the tourists that there are two possible origins of the name: either slaves were landed there, or Slav traders from the other side of the Adriatic landed there.


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## jester.

> I think there are two main theories on the origin of that name
> 1) the word slovo, which meant 'word' (at least it does in Russian now), or
> 2) the word slava, which meant 'glory' (at least it does in Russian now).
> i.e. the slavs thought of themselves either as the glorious people, or the people with words (everybody else being unintellible of course).




I do not see the context. As far as I know, eastern European people have never been enslaved by Europeans or other speakers of Romance languages. I'm rather thinking of colonies in South America and in Africa when hearing of slaves...


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## Jana337

j3st3r said:
			
		

> I do not see the context. As far as I know, eastern European people have never been enslaved by Europeans or other speakers of Romance languages. I'm rather thinking of colonies in South America and in Africa when hearing of slaves...


 The context of what? 

As far as I know, the etymology of Slav is indeed "slovo", "word". And the English/German/Italian/... word for slave, in turn, comes from Slav. Click. I am afraid that you have a narrow view of history: Enslavement of other tribes has been, sadly, an integral part of the history of mankind since time immemorial, and it is widespread in some regions even nowadays. Click. 

 

Jana


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## jester.

Jana337 said:
			
		

> The context of what?



OK, the better word might have been "correlation". I was referring to the correlation of slaves and "slavic", but apparently I have a narrow view of history, as you said. I did not read your link completely, though. It's just too long


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## se16teddy

j3st3r said:
			
		

> I do not see the context. As far as I know, eastern European people have never been enslaved by Europeans or other speakers of Romance languages. I'm rather thinking of colonies in South America and in Africa when hearing of slaves...


 
We are getting of the subject, but I think I have to make a point of information here. I think that most historians would take the view that eastern European people have been enslaved. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/americas/59351.stm http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=2552&HistoryID=ac31

I suppose that people from everywhere have been slaves. Going back a bit further, I think one of the most famous slaves from Britain was Saint Patrick - whom the Irish adopted as a patron saint! 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/features/stpatrick/index.shtml


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## natasha2000

se16teddy said:
			
		

> We are getting of the subject, but I think I have to make a point of information here. I think that most historians would take the view that eastern European people have been enslaved. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/americas/59351.stm http://www.historyworld.net/wrldhis/PlainTextHistories.asp?groupid=2552&HistoryID=ac31
> 
> I suppose that people from everywhere have been slaves. Going back a bit further, I think one of the most famous slaves from Britain was Saint Patrick - whom the Irish adopted as a patron saint!
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/religions/christianity/features/stpatrick/index.shtml


 
Teddy, I think you age getting off the subject.  Nazis have nothing to do with the ethymology of the word Slavs. When Nazis appeared, the Slavs had been being called Slavs for many many centuries before.

I think we should look into farther history, about the 7-8th century, when Slav tribes came to the lands where they are now.


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## Outsider

There were slaves in all civilizations. Sometimes, they were criminals, or captured war prisoners, but often they were bought in foreign countries. Apparently, Slavs were a "popular" ethnicity to buy as slaves in the Middle Ages, in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. That's where the meaning of "slave" in West European languages comes from. Some Byzantine emperors had a personal guard made up of Slavic slaves. They must have looked impressive, with their fair skin, hair and eyes among the mostly swarthy people of Constantinople.
However, the word was initially (and remains still) an ethnic term. *Se16teddy* has posted above the two main theories about its original meaning.


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## Seana

Oh no, Outsider, what a cruel words but as a Slav I must little defend and deny here.

Maybe this explanation will be more pleasure for our "Slav's souls".

*Slav* 
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=slav&searchmode=none
1387, Sclave, from M.L. Sclavus (c.800), from Byzantine Gk. Sklabos (c.580), from O.Slav. Sloveninu "a Slav," *probably related to slovo "word, speech," which suggests the name originally meant member of a speech community* (cf. O.C.S. *Nemici "Germans,"* related to nemu "dumb;" and cf. O.E. þeode, which meant both "race" and "language"). Identical with the -slav in personal names (e.g. Rus. Miroslav, lit. "peaceful fame;" Mstislav, lit. "vengeful fame;" Jaroslav, lit. "famed for fury;" Czech Bohuslav, lit. "God's glory;" and cf. Wenceslas). Spelled Slave c.1788-1866, infl. by Fr. and Ger. Slave. Adj. Slavic is attested from 1813; earlier Slavonic (c.1645), from Slavonia, a region of Croatia.

_But this ethymology dictionary say as well _

*slave* (n.)
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=slav&searchmode=none
c.1290, *"person who is the property of another,"* from O.Fr. _esclave,_ from M.L. _Sclavus_ "slave" (cf. It. _schiavo_, Fr. _esclave_, Sp. _esclavo_), originally "Slav" (see _Slav_), so called because of the many Slavs sold into slavery by conquering peoples. 

To be honest I have never known about relation of this two words.


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## polaco

j3st3r said:
			
		

> I do not see the context. As far as I know, eastern European people have never been enslaved by Europeans or other speakers of Romance languages. I'm rather thinking of colonies in South America and in Africa when hearing of slaves...


 
Yes, they were. In early middle ages. At that time city of Prague was the biggest euripean slave market.

Greetings


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## Seana

Outsider said:
			
		

> There were slaves in all civilizations. Sometimes, they were criminals, or captured war prisoners, but often they were bought in foreign countries. Apparently, Slavs were a "popular" ethnicity to buy as slaves in the Middle Ages, in Eastern Europe and the Middle East. That's where the meaning of "slave" in West European languages comes from. Some Byzantine emperors had a personal guard made up of Slavic slaves. They must have looked impressive, with their fair skin, hair and eyes among the mostly swarthy people of Constantinople.


 
Slav slaves

Christian slaves were sold to Jewish and Arabic buyers. 
To become the slave it was possible then in the blink of an eye - a delay was enough in the repayment of debts. Crowds of such poor wretches happened upon the market nonfree to Prague perhaps biggest then in Europe. Profits on a slave trade were probably an important position in profits of the prince Bolesława - led fights against Poland then and amongst many slaves it was of Polish prisoners of war. Saint Wojciech, c 955– 997, the bishop, the Benedictine monk, the missionary, the martyr, the patron of Poland - opposed to this practice objected to selling them. 

_The text was source among others monographs and studies were exploited by prof. Gerard Labuda._


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## pjay

Well as far as I know there is indeed an ethymological connection between the word Slav and slave. But it goes probably more than two millennia back in time. I would have to check the time frame though. I think, if I remember correctly, Germanic tribes and Slavic tribes occupied a territory in central Europe. As was often the case, prisoners of war were made slaves. 

I would have to re-check the specifics, but that's roughly the gist of it. By the way the term Welsh has a simliar ethymology. The Welsh were considered slaves by the Anglo-Saxon invaders who conquered England in the 5th century.


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## skye

I think that most if not all of these theories are just speculations. Maybe there are grains of truth out there, and maybe one of these theories really is true, but I won't bet on it. How could I know which one's true and which one isn't? Whatever the word used to mean it couldn't have been that important or at least it isn't that important any more if we all have forgotten it by now.


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## kali

Disculpen que escribo en espanol, no creo que aguien entienda mi pobre ingles  
No pude evitar indicar a los estimados foreros que participan en este tema, que hay que empezar a buscar origenes EN LOS IDIOMAS MATERNOS de los pueblos eslavos y no en el ingles, espanol u algun otro.
Seria lo mismo que yo me pusiera a comentar la etimologia de la palabra... por ejemplo "germany" comparando con palabras de mi idioma o por ejemplo del chino, arabe o thai, a las cuales la mencionada palabra se parece de alguna manera.  
Yo le encuentro toda la razon a las versiones propuestas por se16teddy, puesto que son las oficiales y comprobadas cientificamente por lo menos en mi pais.
Saludos


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## natasha2000

kali said:
			
		

> Disculpen que escribo en espanol, no creo que aguien entienda mi pobre ingles
> No pude evitar indicar a los estimados foreros que participan en este tema, que hay que empezar a buscar origenes EN LOS IDIOMAS MATERNOS de los pueblos eslavos y no en el ingles, espanol u algun otro.
> Seria lo mismo que yo me pusiera a comentar la etimologia de la palabra... por ejemplo "germany" comparando con palabras de mi idioma o por ejemplo del chino, arabe o thai, a las cuales la mencionada palabra se parece de alguna manera.
> Yo le encuentro toda la razon a las versiones propuestas por se16teddy, puesto que son las oficiales y comprobadas cientificamente por lo menos en mi pais.
> Saludos


 
Here's the translation:
Sorry for my writting in Spanish, but I doubt anyone would understand my poor English  .
I have to draw the attention of respectful foreros of this thread that the search should be started IN THE MOTHER TOUNGUES of Slavic peoples, and not in Englisn, Spanish or any other.
It would be the same as if I tried to comment the ethimplogy of the word.. for example, "Germany" comaparing with the words of my language with the words, for example in Chinese, Arabic or Thai, only because the word in question is somehow similar to them. 
I find very reasonable all the propositions made by se16teddy, since they are all official and scintifacly prooved versions, at least in my country.

Now, my two cents.


I really do not understand what connection can have the ethimology of the word Slavic and Slav with Nazis. I would really appreciate if someone explains this to me, since I see that se16teddy is not the only one who thinks like this. The only connection that I see is that Slavs WERE enslaved by Hitler and his Nazi Germany, but they were called Slavs many centuries before Hitler was even born, so I really do not see the connection between these two: Nazis and ETHIMOLOGY of the word Slav.


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## pjay

I fully agree with Natasha.

@Kali: No Pienses que "Germany" es una palabra alemán. En efecto no es. "Germany" es derivado del latín tan como la palabra inglesa "Slavic". Nosotros no decimos "alemán" o "German" o "Njemez" en alemán. 

German is not a German term. It's derived from Latin just as the English term "Slavic".


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## Jana337

natasha2000 said:
			
		

> Here's the translation:
> Sorry for my writting in Spanish, but I doubt anyone would understand my poor English  .
> I have to draw the attention of respectful foreros of this thread that the search should be started IN THE MOTHER TOUNGUES of Slavic peoples, and not in Englisn, Spanish or any other.


But we did - see the opening post (glorious and word as an explanation). Incidentally, we also mentioned the etymology of "slave", which seems to come from "Slav". Did anyone insist that it is the other way round? 

Jana


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## kali

pjay said:
			
		

> I fully agree with Natasha.
> 
> @Kali: No Pienses que "Germany" es una palabra alemán. En efecto no es. "Germany" es derivado del latín tan como la palabra inglesa "Slavic". Nosotros no decimos "alemán" o "German" o "Njemez" en alemán.
> 
> German is not a German term. It's derived from Latin just as the English term "Slavic".


*Pjay*, yo mencione esa palabra como ejemplo nomas. Podria haber sido cualquier otra. 
Saludos


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## Aldin

In late Roman Empire people of Slavic origin were the most common among the slaves,so probably that's the origin of the word.
In latin servus,i=slave,servent


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## klevius

Yes, those slavs ending up as "items" in non-slavic land became known as "slaves". But what is perhaps more interesting is that this particular "slav-trade" peaked exactly at the same time as the Vikings and the expansion of Islam (no Vikings before Islam). This powerful analytical tool hasn't yet been utilized (why? in fact it seems that Islam's almost extinct from many medieval Euro-analysis!) but see The Viking, the Valkyrie and Islam! For an analysis of the origin of the Vikings and why almost half of all Arab silver coins found in northern Europe were buried on Gotland (the 'russ' island in the Baltic sea), see A controversial etymology of 'Valkyrie' on Klevius sex segregation, feminism and religion! Btw, the Finnish word for slave is 'orja' which may originate from 'airiia'. i.e. Aryan! As I'm not as yet allowed to link just search on Klevius Valkyrie!


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## übermönch

Only the tribe which overran Ayran and India called itself "Arians".  Ugres  could  hardly  enslave  them.


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## Terry Morti

pjay said:


> I would have to re-check the specifics, but that's roughly the gist of it. By the way the term Welsh has a simliar ethymology. The Welsh were considered slaves by the Anglo-Saxon invaders who conquered England in the 5th century.



OED etymology of slave is quite clear. 



> Latin_ sclavus_, _sclava_, identical with the racial name _Sclavus_ (see SLAV), the Slavonic population in parts of central Europe having been reduced to a servile condition by conquest; the transferred sense is clearly evidenced in documents of the 9th century.



Welsh = foreigner in Old English.


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## Kanes

Hahaha it is funny how people connect English words with names of linguistic groups, when the English word has no way to become a self identification of people that have never even heard English. Not to mention that English didn't realy excist as the language of today then. Aslo how will this explain the identification of Balkan people with it? Not to mention that it does not identify common group of people but a lenguage one.

_Slav,_ is a root for both a word and worship, and it is used for both in regards to christianity. _The slovo_ means the word/saying in both literal and religios sence. Slavian is someone speaking the religios language. Here I have to say that there is not a single profe of slavophonia outside the Balkans before christianity spread from there. If you object, show a profe.


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## Terry Morti

Kanes the word 'slave' entered English from the Latin. See the proof in my OED derivation above in post 24.


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## Kanes

It still makes no diference as it is a native term meaning something else.


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## Terry Morti

The word 'slave' entered the English language via Latin, where 'slave' was the same word as 'Slav'.


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## berndf

Terry Morti said:


> What the word may mean in its original setting is immaterial to this thread. The word 'slave' entered the English language via Latin, where 'slave' was the same word as 'Slav'.


I don't think this thread is about English!

The word _slave_ is of Byzantine Greek origin (σκλάβος) and is derived from the Name the Greeks used for Slavs. The reason for this development was given in #11 by Seana. So, I don't think we have to complicate the discussion here by talking about _slave_.


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## Terry Morti

The thread is about the fact that the words are one and the same. Etymology of Slav is:



> In early use ad. med.L. _Sclavus_ (recorded from _c_ 800), corresponding to late Gr.  (_c_ 580): cf. older G. _Sklave_, _Sclav_(_e_, _Schlav_(_e_, MHG. _Schlaff_. The later forms in _Sl-_ correspond to mod.G. and F. _Slave_, med.L. _Slavus_ (951), and are closer to the OSlav. and Russian forms: see SLOVENE.


Slovene however has a different etymology:



> a. G. _Slovene_ (_Slowene_), pl. _Slovenen_, ad. Styrian, etc. _Slovenec_, pl. _Slovenci_; the name is a survival of the old native designation of the Slavs, which appears in OSlav. as _Slovene_, and is supposed to be derived from the stem of _slovo_ word, _sloviti_ to speak.


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## berndf

Terry Morti said:


> The thread is about the fact that the words are one and the same.


Which two words? In your previous posts you were talking about _slave_. This word doesn't appear in these quotes. 


> Slovene however has a different etymology


Not necessarily. The second quotation relates _Slovene_ to a Slavic root. The first one only goes back to Byzantine Greek and says nothing about the origin of the Greek word itself which is, for all we know, of Slavic origin too.


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## Terry Morti

The etymology of Slav is _Sclavus. _The etymology of Slave is _Sclavus_ see 30.


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## berndf

Terry Morti said:


> The etymology of Slav is _Sclavus. _The etymology of Slave is _Sclavus_ see 30.


The quote correctly states that _*S*lave_ is the French and and German word for _Slav_, not _*s*lave_.


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## Terry Morti

I'm getting sick of repeating the same thing. 
Slav from Latin sclavus.
Slave from Latin sclavus.



Terry Morti said:


> "_Sclavus is _identical with the racial name _Sclavus_ (see SLAV)"


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## Frank06

Terry Morti said:


> I'm getting sick of repeating the same thing.


*Me too.

Frank
Moderator EHL*


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