# terrain vague



## Conditionelle

Bonjour, je ne trouve aucune traduction pour l'expression "terrain vague", quelqu'un peut-il m'aider ?

*Note des modérateurs : *nous avons fusionné plusieurs discussions pour créer ce fil.


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## bloomiegirl

Please supply the context so that we can help you. 

(Without any context, I might say _ambiguous territory_ -- but I just hate doing that! It's just too error pone.)

Edit: The entries below are testimony enough! Context is king!


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## Austin Pal

_"Wasteland"_ comes to mind but it might be too negative...


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## bloomiegirl

Conditionelle - 

I just noticed that you are new to the Forum. *Welcome!*
But there are many ways to translate an isolated phrase. Can you give us the complete sentence, and possibly the context as well?

Je viens de noter que vous êtes nouvelle ici. *Bienvenue au Forum! *
Mais il y a trop de possibilités, quant il s'agit de traduire une locution isolée. Pourriez-vous fournir la phrase complète, et peut-être le contexte aussi?

(Just practicing mon français rouillé...)


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## Conditionelle

Oh, sorry ...

Well, I have to write a text about the best place to build a new factory. So, I speak about a city where there is a big "terrain vague", you know, it's a large place where there is nothing except dirt and grass, and where you can construct buildings, houses, etc ... 

Is it clear enough ?


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## Coriano

You might say, "undeveloped land."


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## victoria1

or derelict land


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## floise

Hi conditionnele,

I suggest: *vacant lot*.

floise


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## Obidabana

Hey everyone.  I was searching for a translation to the phrase "terrain vague" in the song Le Plat Pays by Jacques Brel.  The first two lines of the song are:

Avec la mer du nord pour dernier terrain vague
Et des vagues de dunes pour arrêter les vagues 
which means "With the North Sea for its last wasteland, and the waves of dunes that stop the waves."

So yes, wasteland seems appropriate, tho pejorative.  I think "vague" here refers to the open expanse or the vastness of an area.  Also, I am certain they chose the word "vague" because it's a homonym.


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## IDio

Moi aussi j'étais à la recherche de ce terme en Anglais mais j'ai l'impression qu'il n'y existe pas d'équivalent satisfaisant pour "terrain vague". Le Robert-Collins done "wasteground" et "wasteland" mais  c'est un peu trop péjoratif à mon sens. 

à suivre...


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## travelingchicken

Bonjour,

je cherche à traduire l'expression "terrain vague" pour un texte que j'ai à écrire en anglais. 

est-ce que quelqu'un a une idée ? Je n'ai rien trouvé dans les nombreuses propositions qui vont déjà avec "terrain". C'est terrain vague en milieu rural. Dans l'immédiat j'ai mis "wild land" qui est proposé en traduction d'une friche, mais est-ce qu'il n'y a pas quelque chose qui colle mieux ?

Merci !


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## mathilde70

On peut utiliser "waste land".


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## travelingchicken

Merci, ça me paraît déjà mieux, effectivement


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## SteveD

"Waste ground" is another possibility.


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## gillyfr

terrain vague en milieu rural?  je ne savais pas que ça existait.

"Waste land/ground" se référeraient plutôt à un terrain qui n'est pas aménagé, et donc plutôt en ville. En AE, on dirait, je crois, "empty lot".

Qu'entends-tu par terrain vague en milieu rural exactement?


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## SteveD

"Lot" dans ce contexte (waste lot, vacant lot, parking lot etc) n'est pas courant en BE donc plutôt AE.


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## bh7

The general term is "*vacant land*" [i.e., land not occupied by structures, farm crops, etc.].  In an urban area where the land is "serviced" (connected to the city water supply, connected to the electric lines, etc.), properly surveyed and properly zoned for housing construction, one could speak of a "*vacant [building] lot*".  In the countryside, where the land in question is zoned for agricultural use, we'd speak of "*vacant farm land*".  In the countryside, where the land in question is not usable for any productive purpose, the land in quesiton would be called a piece [parcel] of "*waste land*" (coll.: 'bush' if overgrown).


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## wildan1

_terrain vague:_
_an empty field_ in the country (champ non cultivé)
_an empty lot_ in the city

In a real estate context (city or country):
_undeveloped land_ _(terrain sans construction)_


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## Philip(pe)

Believe it or not, the term "vague terrain" is used in this same sense in English, though it is dated and not widely known. "Wildland" is a good English term, usually used in its plural form.


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## travelingchicken

Thanks to you all. I think waste land is the best in my context, but I'll keep the other ones in mind


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## petit souris

Salut,

voici la phrase:

"Avec tout ce désordre; autant mettre le feu à la baraque et en constuire une autre dans le terrain vague."

Ma tentative:
"With all of this mess we might as well set fire to the place/shack/dump and build another in the rubble."

J'aimerais bien savoir si terrain vague ici veut dire littéralement l'espace vide là ou était la baraque, ou juste plus généralement n'importe quelle espace vide.

Merci.


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## la grive solitaire

_un terrain vague_ is _an empty lot_


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## Quaeitur

or a *vacant lot*.


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## franc 91

on another bit of waste land, somewhere else


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## petit souris

I'm aware of the general definition of the word.

Thanks franc 91, but could you explain why? When the definite article is used, does it just mean unused land in a general, collective sense, like when people say the bush or the outback or frontier?

Thanks.


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## la grive solitaire

Could you provide some context, petit souris?


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## petit souris

It is the first line of a short story. What follows immediately is a bitter description of a family gathering at the home (here la baraque) of the narrator, where all of the extended family pissed him off by making a complete mess and being generally bratty and stupid.


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## ajparis

I think it very simply means "in the vacant lot" (which will obviously result from the disappearance the the original shack).  Personally I'd be tempted to omit it, since whenever you destroy a building, a vacant lot logically is created. (petit souris is perhaps more scrupulous than me in feeling obliged to translate it, but in my opinion goes to far by suggesting that the rubble is to remain).

With all this mess, we may as well set fire to the shack and build another one in its place.


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## franc 91

If it's a specific piece of ground then I would say the bit of waste ground,(but then I would have to say which one) but I had the impression they wanted to go to somewhere else and it didn't matter where.


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## la grive solitaire

That's what I think, too: ..._and build another one someplace else_. (I  sense an undertone of "some forlorn spot...")


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## petit souris

aj you are right that I'm not looking for a direct translation, just to know whether it means in its place (as you suggests) or elsewhere (as frank 91) suggests.


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## ajparis

Oh, now I get it! It's like the puzzle where you see a bunny or a duck.

Is there a reference to this terrain vague elsewhere in the text? Like, the vacant lot everyone in the neighborhood knows about? If not, it's probably the same place where the other shack stood.


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## Zumara

How do you say 'terrain vague' in English, that is, a piece of land, I believe typically in a city, which nobody really uses? I know that word but it totally escapes me now! Thanks!


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## pointvirgule

A _vacant lot_.


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## johnblacksox

Vacant lot?

That's a plot of land that has nothing on it, usually a bad thing in the city. Like if a building is torn down, or burns down, and nothing is built to replace it.


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## Charlie Parker

[...] I think "a vacant lot" or "undeveloped land" might be suitable. The Robert & Collins dictionary suggests "waste ground, wasteland" which I find less convincing for your context.


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## LART01

[...]

Wasteland works in urban context, doesn't it?


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## Enquiring Mind

In British English, we'd probably say *a piece of*/*an area of* wasteland or waste land.   "Lot" isn't current in British English at all.   AmE: Vacant lot = BE: empty plot    AmE: Parking lot = BE: car park


 "The building _backs on to waste land_, with a boarded-up house two doors away..."
"There is a secure back garden which _backs on to waste land_ ideal for exercising your pets on. There are excellent forestry walks within a few miles drive. *...*"
"I started at Lubrizol in Bromborough Wirral, just off the A41 and was _adjacent to waste land_ next to the river Mersey. *...*"


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## Enquiring Mind

And following Charlie Parker's link, I see the original query was about building a factory "sur un terrain vague".  In (British) English, when you're looking for a *building plot*/ *development plot*, you will also come across the terms "*a greenfield site*" (= which is or was just crops or wasteland - land previously undeveloped), and "*a brownfield site*"  (= a plot of land that previously had some sort of industrial building, e.g. closed-down factory, disused petrol station etc.


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## Zumara

So, I guess now I have to wonder, which English should I write, American or British?? ;-)

Thanks to all for your answers.


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## johnblacksox

LART01 said:


> Wasteland works in urban context, doesn't it?


 
No, not in US English at least. 

In fact, "wasteland" is most commonly used as a euphamism, such as "The city is a culinary wasteland", implying that there are no good restaurants in that city. 

In a more literal sense, "wasteland" would probably be used to describe a huge, barren, dry, scrubby desert-like area where there is not much life. You wouldn't use it to describe a place that people live right next to.

For example, I can't think of anywhere on Earth that I would call a "wasteland".  Even the desert, I would call "a desert"; "wasteland" would seem like a too harsh and negative term for even a desert.


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## Charlie Parker

That's an interesting point johnblacksox. I'm inclined to agree. I don't remember ever using the term myself except figuratively. I like your example.


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## Zumara

johnblacksox said:


> No, not in US English at least.
> 
> In fact, "wasteland" is most commonly used as a euphamism, such as "The city is a culinary wasteland", implying that there are no good restaurants in that city.
> 
> In a more literal sense, "wasteland" would probably be used to describe a huge, barren, dry, scrubby desert-like area where there is not much life. You wouldn't use it to describe a place that people live right next to.
> 
> For example, I can't think of anywhere on Earth that I would call a "wasteland".  Even the desert, I would call "a desert"; "wasteland" would seem like a too harsh and negative term for even a desert.



Would you then not call "wasteland" an area which has been destroyed by some human-caused disaster, e.g. oil slick areas, or even deserts for that matter (most of which, I have been told, have been human-made)?

Also I notice that WR gives "décharge", "dépotoir", and "terrain vague" (which has in fact nothing to do with "dépotoir" and "décharge"...!) as French translations for "wasteland". This disagrees with your definition, and also that given here, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wasteland, should an error be reported to WR then?

Also, by the way I do not understand why you say that  "The city is a culinary wasteland" is a euphemism, is this sentence for you really less harsh than "There are no good restaurants in that city"? I would have thought that it actually sounds worse.


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