# Τα βυζαντινά των Πρεσπών



## seitt

Greetings,

Please see:
http://entertainment.in.gr/html/ent/836/ent_tv_show.3307836.asp

Please could you explain ‘Τα βυζαντινά των Πρεσπών’? It doesn't mean anything at all to me.

Is τα βυζαντινά perhaps just ‘Byzantine things’ in general?

Is Πρεσπά a city? What name might it go under in an atlas?

Best wishes, and many thanks,

Simon


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## cougr

seitt said:


> Please could you explain ‘Τα βυζαντινά των Πρεσπών’? It doesn't mean anything at all to me.
> 
> Is τα βυζαντινά perhaps just ‘Byzantine things’ in general?Simon




It refers to the Byzantine monuments of Prespa.



seitt said:


> Is Πρεσπά a city? What name might it go under in an atlas? Simon



Πρέσπες/Πρέσπα (Prespes/Prespa) is a transboundary geographical region shared between Albania, FYROM and Greece. There is also the municipality of _Prespes_  in Florina, Greece.


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## alfie1888

So, βυζαντινά refers to μνημεία, hence the choice of gender and number? How does a Greek know what an adjective alone refers to? Isn't it a bit ambiguous most of the time? 

Sorry to butt in here, but I was curious!


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## cougr

The word "βυζαντινά" in and of itself doesn't necessarily refer to "μνημεία" but in this particular case, given that the whole of the Prespa region is well known for it's Byzantine monuments, one can confidently surmise that "_Τα_ _βυζαντινά_" is being used here as an adjectival noun meaning _"Τα __Βυζαντινά_ _μνημεία_".


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## Tassos

alfie1888 said:


> How does a Greek know what an adjective alone refers to? Isn't it a bit ambiguous most of the time?



It is a process that we might call "ουσιαστικοποίηση ενός επιθέτου" where in a pair adjective-noun the noun is dropped and the adjective remains "alone" and takes the meaning of the noun also. This phenomenon is encountered so many times in everyday language, that in the end one forgets that it is actually an adjective we are talking about and not a noun.
Examples:
Λαϊκά τραγούδια --> Λαϊκά
Λαϊκή αγορά --> Λαϊκή
Επιθετικός παίχτης --> Επιθετικός
Ηλεκτρικός Σιδηρόδρομος --> Ηλεκτρικός
Παιδικός Σταθμός --> Παιδικός
95% of the time everyone knows what the adjective refers to. So, when someone hears Λαϊκή he instantly knows that it refers to Λαϊκή αγορά and not for example to Λαϊκή παράδοση.


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## seitt

Thank you very much indeed, most enlightening. I certainly see the logic in taking "βυζαντινά" as referring to "μνημεία", but would it be wrong to take it as referring to “ερείπια”, for example?


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## Perseas

seitt said:


> Greetings,
> 
> Please see:
> http://entertainment.in.gr/html/ent/836/ent_tv_show.3307836.asp
> 
> Please could you explain ‘Τα βυζαντινά των Πρεσπών’? It doesn't mean anything at all to me.
> 
> Is τα βυζαντινά perhaps just ‘Byzantine things’ in general?


Yes. And in such a context the more generic term (after things) is μνημεία, indeed. Ερείπια has a more narrow sense than μνημεία and wouldn't be the first thing to come into one's mind.


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## cougr

Just like to add that you couldn't categorically rule out that "βυζαντινά" might be referring to “ερείπια”, as many of the Byzantine monuments in the region are in fact in a state of ruin, it's just that they are rarely referred to as such. Hence "τα βυζαντινά ερείπια των Πρεσπών", as Perseas suggested,  isn't the first thing that comes to mind. The expression "τα βυζαντινά μνημεία των Πρεσπών" is vastly more common.


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## Andrious

I agree for the "ερείπια" thing. Some people (the Greeks know who...) may take it as an insult if you say "τα βυζαντινά ερείπια".


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