# Finnish personal pronouns.



## vigriðr

Hello.
First time poster on this particular site. .
What I would like to know is, is when would you use personal pronouns and how would you use them?
From what I've seen, things are fairly random  .
For example, let's take this sentence:
"Hän kysyy: Kuka on sinun paras ystävä(si)?'.
Then let's take every both ways I know of this sentence (without changing the wording, as such).
Hän kysyy: Kuka on paras ystäväsi?
Hän kysyy: Kuka on sinun paras ystävä?
When would you use each?
I think even more ways of saying things can come into play when using the verb olla. 
For example: Sinä olet paras ystäväni.
Sinä olet paras minun ystäväni.
Olet paras minun ystävani.
Olet paras ystäväni.
When would you use each?
Also when would you use the more formal form te?
This is ignoring the colloquial side of things, where things get even trickier to remember! Any tips for that would be welcome also.


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## Grumpy Old Man

Welcome to ERF, Unpronounceable!  Here are my comments:

_Kuka on paras ystäväsi? 
_The best option. It can be used in formal and informal style.

_Kuka on sinun paras ystäväsi?_
_Sinun _is redundant and makes the sentence sound awkward to my ear. This is commonly heard, though.

_Kuka on sinun paras ystävä?_
I'm not sure what grammarians think of this today. I don't find it very elegant and I avoid it.

_Sinä olet paras ystäväni._
Perfect in formal and informal style.

_Sinä olet *paras minun* ystäväni._
Ungrammatical. Wrong word order._

Te_ can be used instead of _sinä_ if you are talking to an elderly person who you think might take offence at _sinä_.


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## vigriðr

Grumpy Old Man said:


> Welcome to ERF, Unpronounceable!  Here are my comments:
> 
> _Kuka on paras ystäväsi?
> _The best option. It can be used in formal and informal style.
> 
> _Kuka on sinun paras ystäväsi?_
> _Sinun _is redundant and makes the sentence sound awkward to my ear. This is commonly heard, though.
> 
> _Kuka on sinun paras ystävä?_
> I'm not sure what grammarians think of this today. I don't find it very elegant and I avoid it.
> 
> _Sinä olet paras ystäväni.
> _
> 
> Perfect in formal and informal style.
> 
> _Sinä olet *paras minun* ystäväni._
> Ungrammatical. Wrong word order._
> 
> Te_ can be used instead of _sinä_ if you are talking to an elderly person who you think might take offence at _sinä_.



 It's pronounced vee-gri-thr. It's an old norse word, for the place of battle between the æsir/Vanar when Ragnorók comes. ð is commonly used scandinavian place names, and in Icelandic. 

Yes, I always thougt that it looks better using word ending rather than the possessive personal pronoun, but my textbook never seems to do it that way, probably because it wants me to remember both the word ending as well as the pronoun. 

Yeah, I figured _te_ would be used in formal occasions, like writing a*n* business letter, or something.  My english spelling and grammar is horrible today, maybe I should study English before Finnish.  

Is it common to use _Sinä olet_ or simply say _olet,_as I understand it can be done this way with all the pronouns except the formal or third person ones, _he, te, me? _

Also would it be weird if I spoke this kind of 'book language' as I think it's called, rather than the colloquial? I understand the colloquial largely from one part of Finland to the other. 

Thanks for the speedy reply


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## DrWatson

vigriðr said:


> Yes, I always thougt that it looks better using word ending rather than the possessive personal pronoun, but my textbook never seems to do it that way, probably because it wants me to remember both the word ending as well as the pronoun.


I think most modern Finnish textbooks omit the noun personal endings (or possessive suffixes, as they're called) at the early stage, because they are not that important at the beginning of studies. When you move to a more advanced level, they will appear in the picture. Possessive suffixes are much scarcer in spoken language than they are in writing.



vigriðr said:


> Is it common to use _Sinä olet_ or simply say _olet,_as I understand it can be done this way with all the pronouns except the formal or third person ones, _he, te, me?_


_Minä/sinä/me/te _can be dropped if the verb has the respective ending: _(Minä) olen, (Sinä) olet, (Me) olemme, (Te) olette_. _Hän/he_ are mostly compulsory: _Hän on, He ovat._



vigriðr said:


> Also would it be weird if I spoke this kind of 'book language' as I think it's called, rather than the colloquial? I understand the colloquial largely from one part of Finland to the other.


Speaking "like a book" is inevitable in the beginning. All books – and I would suppose most teachers – start with the standard language, because it's understood by everyone and it's used in writing. When, for example, 1st or 2nd year Finnish students from abroad come here, they almost always speak the "book language". There's nothing weird about that, it just gives away pretty quickly that you're not a native. If you spend some time somewhere in Finland, you'll very likely start picking up the local colloquial variant and use it. There is some variation across the country but especially with young city people the language variants are becoming more uniform. The southern-based colloquial variety, sometimes called "common spoken Finnish" (_yleispuhesuomi_) is largely understood wherever you go.


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## Spongiformi

vigriðr said:


> Also when would you use the more formal form te?





Grumpy Old Man said:


> _Te_ can be used instead of _sinä_ if you are talking to an elderly person who you think might take offence at _sinä_.



That was the case until 90's, or something, following the Swedish example, but these days _"te"_ is not only limited to talking to seniors, not by far. Very often for example in business the salespersons or other customer service will refer to the customer as _"te"_. It's simply the traditional polite and respectful way of talking to strangers. I suppose the current situation is the worst because you never know whether to use it or not. Half of the official letters, for example, use _"sinä"_, the other half _"te"_, although the influence of modern social media seems to push toward _"sinä"_.

I guess the situation is a bit similar to (parts of?) the USA where people may ponder whether to add "sir" or "ma'am" in their sentences when talking to strangers (especially not elders). Officers and other officials and such certainly do it. I don't know about the situation in the UK, though.


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## Gavril

Spongiformi said:


> That was the case until 90's, or something, following the Swedish example, but these days _"te"_ is not only limited to talking to seniors, not by far. Very often for example in business the salespersons or other customer service will refer to the customer as _"te"_. It's simply the traditional polite and respectful way of talking to strangers. I suppose the current situation is the worst because you never know whether to use it or not.



Would you say that there is a risk to using _te,_ as long as you only use it with customers, seniors and bosses?



> I guess the situation is a bit similar to (parts of?) the USA where people may ponder whether to add "sir" or "ma'am" in their sentences when talking to strangers (especially not elders). Officers and other officials and such certainly do it. I don't know about the situation in the UK, though.



It is pretty common to say "sir" or "ma'am" in the USA if you don't know someone's name and need to catch his or her attention; otherwise, the situation seems more complicated (as you said).


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## Spongiformi

Gavril said:


> Would you say that there is a risk to using _te,_ as long as you only use it with customers, seniors and bosses?



I can't personally imagine such a risk at all unless you grossly misjudge the situation. While at one point, like GOM said, _"te"_ was mainly used when talking to seniors (or in highly official situations and the defense forces), things have since changed. Of course there are always people who tend to take everything exceedingly personally and, let's say 15-20 years ago, there were many adult but not old people who were annoyed by it, feeling they were treated like pensioners in stores. Oft the situation goes so that the salesperson, for example, uses _"te"_ and you answer with _"sinä"_, and afterwards both use _"sinä"_. If you answer with and keep using _"te"_, then both will stick to it. In theory the older, or higher ranked, person will decide if it's appropriate to use _"sinä"_. Many seniors, however, will except _"te"_, although I doubt that many would anymore bother to protest visibly if they get too familiar treatment. In the end Finland is quite an informal society.


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