# è stato uno dei migliori studenti del suo corso



## Parergon

Mr Black è stato uno dei migliori studenti del suo corso all'Università di Milano.

I'd go for

Mr Black was one of the best students on his course at University of Milan.

But I was wondering, considering that Mr Black isn't dead and considering that I'd like to emphatise his past academic experience as a period of time.
May I say: "Mr Black had been of the best student on his course at University of Milan" ?


----------



## Nate in California

> Mr Black was one of the best students in his course at University of Milan.


OR



> Mr Black had been of the best students on his course at University of Milan



I think you've got the right idea. It depends on the context, but either of these should work.


----------



## Nate in California

Sorry, actually the second one is wrong. It should be:

Mr Black had been one of the best students in his course at University of Milan 

You could also say "among the best students..."


----------



## Parergon

Nate, May you explain me why you wrote **in** in the first sentence? Thanks


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Parergon said:


> Mr Black è stato uno dei migliori studenti del suo corso all'Università di Milano.
> 
> I'd go for
> 
> Mr Black was one of the best students *in* his course at *the* University of Milan.
> 
> But I was wondering, considering that Mr Black isn't dead and considering that I'd like to emphatise (emphasize?) his past academic experience as a period of time.
> May I say: "Mr Black had been of the best student on his course at University of Milan" ?


----------



## Parergon

Is 'the' really necessary?

empathize, UK USUALLY empathise  
verb _ 
to be able to understand how someone else feels:
It's very easy to empathize with the characters in her books.
Compare sympathize at sympathy (UNDERSTANDING).

Cambridge Dictionary: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=25405&dict=CALD_


----------



## ladybird

Parergon said:


> Mr Black è stato uno dei migliori studenti del suo corso all'Università di Milano.
> 
> I'd go for
> 
> Mr Black was one of the best students on his course at University of Milan.
> 
> But I was wondering, considering that Mr Black isn't dead and considering that I'd like to emphatise his past academic experience as a period of time.
> May I say: "Mr Black had been of the best student on his course at University of Milan" ?


 
Ciao Parergon.

I would say:

"Mr Black had been one of the best students during his course at the University of Milan"

I'm sure somebody else has a better idea..


----------



## Parergon

ladybird said:


> "Mr Black had been one of the best students *during* his course at the University of Milan"



Thanks for your post. Nice one. Adding during we emphatise (or emphatize, Paul ) the sense of continuation.

Which one do you prefer? 
1) Mr Black was...
2) mr Black had been...


----------



## Nate in California

> Nate, May you explain me why you wrote **in** in the first sentence?


Because "on" makes it sound like he was literally "on top of" (sopra) the course. 


> Mr Black was one of the best students *in* his course at *the* University of Milan.



To answer you question, Parergon, the "the" before University of Milan is a stylistic thing. Some universities insist that because "the" isn't part of the name, it shouldn't be there. Others don't make a fuss over it.


----------



## Nate in California

> "Mr Black had been one of the best students *during* his course at the University of Milan"



Il "during" non suona bene in inglese. Non saprei dire esattamente perché.


----------



## Parergon

Precious advice. Thanks.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Parergon said:


> Is 'the' really necessary?
> 
> empathize, UK USUALLY empathise
> verb _
> to be able to understand how someone else feels:
> It's very easy to empathize with the characters in her books.
> Compare sympathize at sympathy (UNDERSTANDING).
> 
> Cambridge Dictionary: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=25405&dict=CALD_


_

Allora dimmelo in Italiano se vuoi simpatizzare  (empathize) con la sua passata esperienza accademica o voui *enfatizzare* (emphasize) la sua passata esperienza accademica..._


----------



## Isapaola

I think _had been_ is wrong. As far as I know you can't use the past perfect if you don't refer to  an action taking place before another in the past.
I would be glad to know if, once more, I have a wrong idea  about tenses. So, please, go on with this thread!


----------



## ladybird

Parergon said:


> Thanks for your post. Nice one. Adding during we emphatise (or emphatize, Paul ) the sense of continuation.
> 
> Which one do you prefer?
> 1) Mr Black was...
> 2) mr Black had been...


 
Of course, we could always emphasise the sense of continuation  

Personally speaking, I would use "was" but as I'm often grammatically incorrect, don't quote me on it!

ladybird


----------



## Nate in California

> I think _had been_ is wrong. As far as I know you can't use the past perfect if you don't refer to an action taking place before another in the past.



Yes, as you point out it is wrong unless referring to an action taking place before another in the past.


----------



## Parergon

i.e. By the time I arrived at the party, Sam had gone home.

or

During his studies he had obtained excellent results (over 90% of his exams have been passed with distinction), he has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics.


----------



## Isapaola

Yes, unless you say:
Mr Black had been one of his best students at the University of Milan until Mr White turned up.


----------



## ladybird

Nate in California said:


> Il "during" non suona bene in inglese. Non saprei dire esattamente perché.


 
Glad you raised that point Nate, I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong!

Having looked at it again (and again and again) I think I have figured out why it doesn't sound quite right.

I suppose my sentence could give the impression that at some point during his course, he was one of the best students but not necessarily for the entire course.

Does that make any sense to you?


----------



## Isapaola

[quote
During his studies he had obtained excellent results (over 90% of his exams have been passed with distinction), he has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics]

Are you sure of this sentence? It sounds a bit......strange


----------



## Parergon

It was going to be just a more complex example. I'll be more than happy to know what is wrong for you.


----------



## Nate in California

> I suppose my sentence could give the impression that at some point during his course, he was one of the best students but not necessarily for the entire course.
> 
> Does that make any sense to you?



Yeah, I think that's what I was seeing.



> During his studies he had obtained excellent results (over 90% of his exams have been passed with distinction), he has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics
> 
> Are you sure of this sentence? It sounds a bit......strange


 
Right you are, Isapaola. If we're talking about the past, i.e. something that is not ongoing, it should be: 

During his studies he obtained excellent results (he passed over 90% of his exams with distinction). He has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics.

However, the second sentence is an odd follow-up to the first because there's no transition. Perergon, are you trying to say something along the lines of "In addition to required coursework, he also completed independent studies in social science and economics"?


----------



## Parergon

Nate in California said:


> However, the second sentence is an odd follow-up to the first because there's no transition. Perergon, are you trying to say something along the lines of "In addition to required coursework, he also completed independent studies in social science and economics"?



Yes, I was trying to express that he did some extra/additional studies.


----------



## Paulfromitaly

Parergon said:


> Is 'the' really necessary?
> 
> empathize, UK USUALLY empathise
> verb _
> to be able to understand how someone else feels:
> It's very easy to empathize with the characters in her books.
> Compare sympathize at sympathy (UNDERSTANDING).
> 
> Cambridge Dictionary: http://dictionary.cambridge.org/define.asp?key=25405&dict=CALD_


_



Paulfromitaly said:



			Allora dimmelo in Italiano se vuoi simpatizzare  (empathize) con la sua passata esperienza accademica o voui *enfatizzare* (emphatise) la sua passata esperienza accademica...
		
Click to expand...


Già che ci sei spiegami anche come si *simpatizza* (emphatise) con una esperienza accademica che io non lo so..._


----------



## Isapaola

Perergon, can you give me your consecution temporum of the tenses you used?
He _had obtained_ excellent results and this _allowed_ him to to something. OK
A past perfect taking place before a simple past.
Over 90% of his exams have been passed (when did these exams take place?) They can't be in relation with the excellent results he had obtained before and, however, between _had taken_ and _have been passed_ there should probably be a simple past).
I'm not willing to correct anything, just to understand because I can't follow the sequence of the tenses. But, as I said before, it must be my fault. I really can't understand what you mean, so please, put the parts of the sentence in sequence. It can be of some help also for others. Or probably not, probably it's just me to have problems!


----------



## Parergon

Isapaola,

If when I write Mr Black is no longer a student and he earned his degree in July 2006. According to Nate, I should write:

During his studies he obtained excellent results (he passed over 90% of his exams with distinction). He has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics.

If when I write Mr Black is still an undergraduate student, but he is a 'laureando' (which means he completed his exams, but he is to write his dissertation and make his 'prova finale'/final exam), I might write:

During his studies he had obtained excellent results (over 90% of his exams have been passed with distinction), he has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics


----------



## Parergon

Paulfromitaly said:


> Già che ci sei spiegami anche come si *simpatizza* (emphatise) con una esperienza accademica che io non lo so...



Beh... sorridendo davanti ad un noioso manuale?  

PS. Chiedo venia per il ripetuto errore sul lemma.


----------



## Isapaola

I still don't agree with the tenses you have used, whereas I fully agree with the ones used by Nate.
In your second example I think you couldn't have used the past perfect all the same. There can't be a gap of tenses between past perfect and present perfect. I think simple past and present perfect would be much better.
If you want to point out that his time as a student is still ongoing this is one more reason not to use the past perfect. I may be wrong, but your explanation is not convincing though. 
Never mind, take it easy!


----------



## Nate in California

I lost with all this back and forth discussion of tenses. I think it would be easiest if you wrote it in Italian. Then I can show you how I would really translate it.


----------



## Parergon

So, if it was (past perfect all the same), would it sound better?

During his studies he have obtained excellent results (over 90% of his exams have been passed with distinction), he has been able to complete his university work with independent studies in social science and economics


----------



## Isapaola

Parergon, sta diventando una barzelletta! Vuoi scrivere la frase in italiano (come suggerisce anche Nate) così vediamo di uscirne? Mi pare che sia proprio un caso di "chi male intende, peggio risponde"!
Non ci siamo con la successione dei tempi, mi sembra, ma forse ho capito male.


----------

