# Cuckold



## edupa

Hi, everybody.

In n Brazilian Portuguese we have a bunch of words to refer to someone who has been cheated on by their spouse. Believe it or not! One of such words is 'cornudo'.

A somewhat close equivalent in English is 'cuckold'.

I'd like to pick your brain as to whether you are familiar with the term 'cuckold'. Also, is 'cuckold' a good word at all to use in English? Would I make myself understood if I were to drop 'cuckold' in a conversation?

Thank you all in advance!


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## bibliolept

Not everyone will get it. "She's two-timing me" and "she's cheating on me" and "she's stepping out on me" are all more common in AE, sadly.


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## L'Homme Inconnu

I have not come across this in BE before. I have had a look on the OED for the definition, and it does say that it means to dishonour or cheat a spouse through adultery.

I agree with bibliolept, though, that "two-timing" or "cheating on" would be better.


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## edupa

That's what I'd thought!



Thank you guys!


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## GreenWhiteBlue

"Cuckold" is a very old-fashioned word that one would be more likely to find in a play by Shakespeare than in modern conversation. The concept is not commonly used as an insult in modern English -- although it is interesting to note that in Shakespeare's day it was a common insult, and equally common was the understanding that a cuckold had (figurative) horns or antlers. This idea has entirely dropped out of modern English.


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## Agent Literary

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> a cuckold had (figurative) horns or antlers.


 
Hence, presumably, "cornudo".

The idea hasn't dropped entirely out of circulation. How many photos have you seen where someone is making two little horns above someone else's head, with their fingers? These are the traditional horns of the cuckold. We may not _know_ it, but the cuckold's associative symbolism is alive and well!


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## Marty10001

"Cuckold" is a wonderful word - use it if you can.


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## JamesM

The interesting thing to me is that it does not have a modern equivalent.  The cuckold is a role in a relationship.  "She's two-timing me" only describes the other person's actions, not the resulting position it places you in.

I agree that it's a very old-fashioned sounding word.  I just think it's interesting that it has no "modern" equivalent.


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## Prower

What is the prepositon to be used with it.

She cuckolded (on) him. ???


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## Prower

JamesM said:


> The cuckold is a role in a relationship.  "She's two-timing me" only describes the other person's actions, not the resulting *position *it places you in.


This is the case as to the cuckold being a noun, isn't it? Or do you derive "the position of a husband" from the verb by itself?


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## Rover_KE

I've known it since reading Shakespeare at school.

As far as I can see, nobody has yet emphasised that only a *husband* can be cuckolded.

Rover


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## panjandrum

Prower said:


> What is the prepositon to be used with it.
> 
> She cuckolded (on) him. ???


No preposition.
She cuckolded him.

The noun came first, followed about 300 years later by the verb.


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## morzh

Well, one of the first things I learned when coming to the AE language environment was that the expression, so popular world-wide, and in almost any European language other than English, "a horned husband / husband with horns", that means the husband whose wife cheats on him, was non-existent in English, or at least in modern English.

The term "cuckold" though was still in dictionaries.
At some point, when I was proficient enough to read unadapted Shakespeare, upon having read some of his works I found out he was actually using "horned husband" expression, explaining it with "cuckold" (or vice versa, forgot).

Now today, having successfully explained to my native colleagues a Russian joke about a horned husband (I had to first explain to them what it meant), I also found out that none of them were familiar with the word "cuckold" either.

So, question is (I know I cannot ask two questions, but they are so tightly linked that I almost have to - I will make it a two-fold question and I would ask moderators to let it slide), is the word "cuckold" know to AE speakers, to BE speakers, how (I won't use the word popular, obviously it is not here, as I've just found out) well-known is it, and why did English stop using "horned husband" even though it was used before?


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## Miss Julie

In my experience, "cuckold" is known only by people who are 1) better-educated, 2) well-read, and/or 3) do crossword puzzles.


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## Beryl from Northallerton

Like most classical references, neither is going to be very generally  understood (though I remember learning it from French lessons) - as to  the notion itself being less of a talking point than at one time, I would put  this down the diminution of the woman being construed as a chattel. If  today a woman is disloyal, this is no longer seen as being a defect in  her owner.


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## morzh

But why did English abandoned "the horns" then? At the top of this topic I saw "cornudo" from Portuguese, which is also related to "horns", which confirms my suspicion that most languages still keep this expression..


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## Beryl from Northallerton

The industrial revolution caused us to abandon many such bucolic references.


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## morzh

Are you aware of the most recent uses of it?


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## Loob

morzh said:


> Are you aware of the most recent uses of it?


Well, _cuckold_'s not an obsolete word, morzh: you can still find current Google Books examples of it, though they tend to be historical and/or literary references.  Wiki's article on it says that it has a current use as a fetishist term, though I guess most people wouldn't know about that (I didn't....)

I suspect Beryl's right in her suggestions as to why it dropped out of use as an everyday 'jocular' term.


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## Myridon

morzh said:


> At some point, when I was proficient enough to read unadapted Shakespeare, upon having read some of his works I found out he was actually using "horned husband" expression, explaining it with "cuckold" (or vice versa, forgot).


Neither.  In a search of Shakespeare online, Shakespeare says "A horned man's a monster and a beast." in Othello (one of only 4 times "horned"  is used).  He uses forms of the word cuckold 35 times, only 4 of those in combination with "horns".
I know of "(wearing) a cuckold's horns" from other older literature as well, but I can't recall ever reading of "a horned husband."


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## morzh

Well, considering I read it 20-plus years ago, I cannot guarantee the accuracy.


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## Thomas Tompion

So much early seventeenth-century drama is about infidelity that any student of the period, however indolent, will be familiar with the idea that horns were supposed to grow on your forehead the moment your wife sleeps with another man.

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the word comes from cuckoo, a bird which cuckolds other birds, almost vicariously.

I'd say the word, either the verb or the noun, isn't used much today, for various reasons, some of which could be painful to mention, but I'd expect any person who reads a little to know it.


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## Myridon

Thomas Tompion said:


> I'm surprised nobody has mentioned that the word comes from cuckoo, a bird which cuckolds other birds, almost vicariously.


The word comes from cuckoo because baby cuckoos appear in the nest of other birds as if the mother bird had been unfaithful with a male cuckoo.  In reality, the female cuckoo lays her eggs (fertilized by her own cuckoo partner) in the nests of other species of birds.  No hanky-panky occurs.


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## Thomas Tompion

That's what I meant by almost vicariously.  Cuckoos are also relevant because they are famous, apparently, for unfaithfulness to other cuckoos.


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## Myridon

Thomas Tompion said:


> That's what I meant by almost vicariously.  Cuckoos are also relevant because they are famous, apparently, for unfaithfulness to other cuckoos.


I didn't understand what you mean by "almost vicariously" in your first post and I still don't.  It seems to me like "almost pregnant."
Most species of cuckoos are actually monogamous.   
To repeat myself, the word comes not from the behavior of cuckoos themselves, but from the apparent unfaithfulness of the other female bird.  The female bird that is not a cuckoo appears to lay a cuckoo's egg and therefore must have cheated on her mate.  However, in reality, the female cuckoo lays eggs which have been fertilized by her monogamous cuckoo mate.  There is absolutely no cuckolding going on vicarious or otherwise.


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## Thomas Tompion

Well, if you don't see why the cuckoo struck people as relevant in the context, let's put it this way: the cuckoo was seen to lay its eggs in other birds' nests, and I think that was enough for the link to be born.


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## johnnycumlately

it is incredible how modern English language is blank on this. As if only Latin wives were ever unfaithful to their husbands. See the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis?! I also think it possible that Victorian sexual repression had its effect on removing these terms from the language. To 'two-time' is modern English but is a verb, empowering the (female) agent not describing the husband's condition. Sad and strange that such a powerful, versatile language as English falls down badly here..


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## Embonpoint

morzh said:


> , is the word "cuckold" know to AE speakers, to BE speakers, how (I won't use the word popular, obviously it is not here, as I've just found out) well-known is it, and why did English stop using "horned husband" even though it was used before?



I'm 48 and American. Growing up, this was a word I heard occasionally used by my parents and older relatives. It strikes me as old fashioned, and I would rarely use it. But I would expect anyone even moderately educated in my age range or older to recognize it; I would expect well-educated younger people to understand it as well. The term does survive in modern day, in particular among a subculture of couples in which the husband finds it sexually exciting to think about (or even watch) his wife having sex with other men. It is called *cuckolding.*


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## johnnycumlately

Embonpoint said:


> I'm 48 and American. Growing up, this was a word I heard occasionally used by my parents and older relatives. It strikes me as old fashioned, and I would rarely use it. But I would expect anyone even moderately educated in my age range or older to recognize it; I would expect well-educated younger people to understand it as well. The term does survive in modern day, in particular among a subculture of couples in which the husband finds it sexually exciting to think about (or even watch) his wife having sex with other men. It is called *cuckolding.*


Agreed. But the interesting thing for me is why do we need to use a 16th century term which only the educated in a population will understand to refer to an experience which is common at all social levels? Shakespeare used terms like 'fornication', 'lechery', etc. which have been classlessly updated to things like 'shag', 'bonk', etc. To be cuckolded is a very unpleasant experience. It's almost like Anglo-Saxon males, fearing this experience, have refused to find words in their vocabulary for it, like ostriches with their heads in the sand. It's a protective mechanism of denial.


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## PaulQ

I am wondering (i) why only "Anglo-Saxon males"; are not other ethnicities concerned? (ii) as it is more likely that others will need the word to describe a third person as a cuckold and laugh or sympathise, it seems unlikely that the cuckold is the cause of the decline in usage.


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## johnnycumlately

anglo saxon males because I am thinking of this as an English term, so you have to think of tracing its development through the context of English culture and language. other cultures, e.g. italian, portuguese, spanish etc. seem still to have both the concept and an updated linguistic way of expressing it still intact, while a modern-day Brit has to have recourse to Shakespearean language if he wants to express the idea. Hope that explains..


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## Myridon

johnnycumlately said:


> an experience which is common at all social levels


Only a small percentage of women have had their wife cheat on them with a man.  Why do we need a term in modern English that specifically refers to a particular combination of genders and exists due to an assumption of the gender roles of those genders?  Or perhaps we need to create more terms to cover every possible combination?


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## Keith Bradford

morzh said:


> Are you aware of the most recent uses of it?



Until recently I'd have said that _cuckold _was a concept that went out of English usage several centuries ago.  But google it and you'll be surprised how many hits you get, most of them with very graphic videos!


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## velisarius

Well, Keith, all those English PhD graduates have to make a living somehow.


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## Alameen

Hello Experts
what do you call a man whose wife has sexual relationships with other men and he knows that but does not mind?
the word running through my head now is "Witting cuckold" ?, some people say "unjealous" but I am so not convinced by that.
I do not mean "pimp" whose job is to find customers for his wife or other women, and may take some of the money that they earn.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

You might hear something like "he and his wife have *an open marriage*."


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## Glenfarclas

Alameen said:


> Hello Experts
> what do you call a man whose wife has sexual relationships with other men and he knows that but does not mind?
> the word running through my head now is "Witting cuckold" ?, some people say "unjealous" but I am so not convinced by that.
> I do not mean "pimp" whose job is to find customers for his wife or other women, and may take some of the money that they earn.



There's a (rare and archaic) word for that:  *wittol*.


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## Alameen

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> You might hear something like "he and his wife have *an open marriage*."


Thnaks GreenWhiteBlue
your answer led me to some informative article.
Open marriage - Wikipedia


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## Alameen

Glenfarclas said:


> There's a (rare and archaic) word for that:  *wittol*.


thank you Glenfarclas
your answer led me to such concise comment on the this topic.

*"The Many Synonyms of cuckold*
One of the more glaring inequities of the English language is that it has a significantly larger number of words for “a man whose wife is unfaithful” than it does for “a woman whose man is unfaithful.” _Cuckold_ is perhaps the best known of these words, and it has many synonyms, including (but by no means restricted to) _cornute_, _cornuto_, _hoddy-doddy_, _hoddypoll_, _horn_, _ram_, and _wittol_ (a man who is aware of his wife’s infidelity and acquiesces to it). What of a woman whose husband is unfaithful? For that our language appears to have but a single word, and an obscure one at that: _cuckquean_.".
Definition of WITTOL


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## ewie

Alameen said:


> _Cuckold_ is perhaps the best known of these words, and it has many synonyms


No, it *had* many synonyms.  Every single one of those words listed is now 100% obsolete


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## Keith Bradford

Well, 99% obsolete, apart from _hoddypoll _which is totally unknown to Google Ngram Viewer.


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## ewie




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## Xavier da Silva

In Brazil the equivalent to "cuckold" is currently widely used and it can refer to both men, women, etc (married or just dating) who are cheated on by their partners.


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## kentix

My theory is that whatever your partner does doesn't make you anything. It's a behavior they have engaged in. Your nature does not change from someone else's behavior.

Maybe English is more modern in this way and has dropped a useless word because it describes an archaic concept. It's not the word that's old-fashioned among English speakers, it's the concept itself. 

Personal opinion: the whole horn thing sounds silly


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## Thomas Tompion

kentix said:


> My theory is that whatever your partner does doesn't make you anything.[...]


So when you die, you don't make your wife a widow.


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## kentix

Do you widow your wife?


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## Thomas Tompion

From WR dictionary: to widow 

v.t.

to make (someone) a widow: _She was widowed by the war._
_ " Hell, Mitzi, she already owns the stock market." An exaggeration, but thanks to being *widowed* *by* three husbands who were all rich as Croesus, Mary Alice is not wanting in the money department.  __Murder shoots the bull : a Southern Sisters mystery - Anne George_


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## kentix

But can she be widowed by a person?

Genuine question.

Because the premise of cuckolding is one person doing something to another.


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## Myridon

If someone kills your spouse, you are widowed.
If someone kills your parents, you are orphaned.


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## Packard

GreenWhiteBlue said:


> "Cuckold" is a very old-fashioned word that one would be more likely to find in a play by Shakespeare than in modern conversation. The concept is not commonly used as an insult in modern English -- although it is interesting to note that in Shakespeare's day it was a common insult, and equally common was the understanding that a cuckold had (figurative) horns or antlers. This idea has entirely dropped out of modern English.


I had a friend from Brazil who showed me the hand gesture for cuckold and it mimics the horns.  This same gesture has different meanings in other cultures.


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## Packard

Myridon said:


> If someone kills your spouse, you are widowed.
> If someone kills your parents, you are orphaned.


And if you murder both of your parents you are orphaned too?


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## kentix

Especially Texas cultures.


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## Thomas Tompion

I don't entirely share the linguistic experience of those who say that the word_ cuckold_ and its derivatives is rare, obscure, or obsolete.

There are 147 instances of it in the COCA (American Corpus) and 109 of _cuckolded_.


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## Myridon

Thomas Tompion said:


> There are 147 instances of it in the COCA (American Corpus) and 109 of _cuckolded_.


A large number of them are humorous usages and/or intentionally archaic.  There are 144 instances of "petard."


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## kentix

And how many are in a porn context? Which I would call a technical meaning. 

Looking it up I see there are some of those and a number from movie versions of Shakespeare plays.

And one from The Simpson's which is clearly used for outlandish humor. " Get your *cuckold*'s horns, neck ruffles, Yorik skulls!" It might possibly be a Renaissance festival, but that's a guess.


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## Thomas Tompion

Myridon said:


> A large number of them are humorous usages and/or intentionally archaic.  There are 144 instances of "petard."


It can be hard to tell.  What %age would you say?  More than half?  There remain a lot which are genuine.


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## kalamazoo

Cuckold is a somewhat old-fashioned word in general. However, it has definitely come back to use as a fairly well-known kink, where the man likes and approves of his wife having sex with someone else.  He WANTS to be a cuckold and it turns him on sexually.  The below comes from A Beginner's Guide to Cuckolding 

In basic terms, cuckolding is a fetish or kink in which a person gets turned on by their partner having sex with someone else.

It’s closely tied to BDSM with overlaps like domination, submission, and humiliation — minus the gear and spanking à la Fifty Shades.

Historically, the term cuckold refers to a man who was unknowingly cheated on by his wife. Don’t get too hung up on that, though.

The modern-day cuckold — who’s not necessarily a cisgender or heterosexual male — is fully aware and heartily approves of their partner’s affairs.


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## Roxxxannne

I know the word cuckold, although, as others have said, I doubt that it's commonly used in the US. 
When I was little I was told that the practice of putting two fingers up behind another person's head in a photograph (here I'm referring to the image in Packard's comment #50) had something to do with calling the person a cuckold.  

I have no idea of the origin of the name of this island and its lighthouse . The light is on an automatic system now and there's no lighthouse keeper on the island. The lighthouse keeper's house was converted recently to a very small bed-and-breakfast that operated for a few years. It was ridiculously expensive -- the sort of price one might pay if one wanted to splurge on a wedding night or a wedding anniversary. Honeymooning at a place called the Cuckolds just seems, well .. not an optimistic view of the whole 'til death do us part thing.


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## MattiasNYC

Is it just me or is "cuck" or "cuckold" also currently used as an insult?


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## kentix

I have heard it used (not firsthand but in media somewhere) but it seems to me those using it were often devotees of the ideas of a particular sort of guru who promises he can teach them to sleep with any woman they want in 3 minutes, or some crazy thing like that, with his special techniques. There are some guys famous for online courses like that. It seems like something people interested in that would say. And guess who is definitely not the cuck in their minds in that scenario? It seems kind of juvenile to me. But maybe it goes with the horns.


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