# Αματεσερον ειπε κι σαφεσερον



## soplamocos

Hi, I'm starting to read _Anabasis_ by Xenophon (soon I will start to ask help about it ), and in the prologue written by one of the correctors I find that phrase (Αματεσερον ειπε κι σαφεσερον). It's presented as a greek proverb.

I don't recognize well the cases and what I wrote as σ is written as ς (maybe it isn't a ς and it's a funny ζ, but I don't think so). Also the accent marks are strange, so I didn't wrote them.

Following that phrase there is an explanation, apparently to said that is the same to say: _speak with the truth and clearly, even if it is impolite_.

How would you translate that phrase? Also if you could say something about the case of the words I will appreciate it. Thank you


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## Perseas

Hi,

this is the line 1445 from Aristophanes' Frogs:

Ἀμαθέστερόν πως εἰπὲ καὶ σαφέστερον 
Aristophanes,  Frogs, line 1414
Speak with less erudition and more clarity
Aristophanes,  Frogs, line 1414


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## soplamocos

Thank you! That makes sense, because later, at the end of the prologue, the frogs from Aristophanes are mentioned, so the writer had that story in his head.


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## Perseas

*ἀμαθέστερον* is the comparative form of the adverb *ἀμαθῶς < *adj.* ὁ,ἡ  ἀμαθής *(masc., fem.)* , τό ἀμαθές *(neut.)
<< Here "ἀμαθέστερον" is translated as "less learnedly">>
<<The English word "mathematics" is etymologically related to the words above>>

*σαφέστερον* is the comparative form of the adverb *σαφῶς < *adj.* ὁ,ἡ σαφής *(masc., fem.) *, τό σαφές *(neut.)


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## soplamocos

Great! Thank you again!


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## Αγγελος

What edtion are you reading, if I may ask?
Yous seem to be using a very old one. Manuscripts used the so-called _stigma_, which looks like an oversize ς, as an abbrevation for στ, and printed boks also followed that practice into the 19th century, but it has been abandoned for at least 150 years!
ς is only used at the end of words.If you see a character that looks like a ς in other positions, it is probably a _stigma_ = στ. The _stigma_, followed by an acute accent, also stands fotr the number 6.


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## soplamocos

Αγγελος said:


> What edtion are you reading, if I may ask?
> Yous seem to be using a very old one. Manuscripts used the so-called _stigma_, which looks like an oversize ς, as an abbrevation for στ, and printed boks also followed that practice into the 19th century, but it has been abandoned for at least 150 years!
> ς is only used at the end of words.If you see a character that looks like a ς in other positions, it is probably a _stigma_ = στ. The _stigma_, followed by an acute accent, also stands fotr the number 6.



Thank you! Yes, the book is old indeed. I have read two different translations, one old and one newer (from 1999).
The phrase is from the older edition, it's from 1914, it was published in Madrid by the _Hernando's successors library (Librería de los sucesores de Hernando)_. It reproduces the first translation to Spanish made in 1552 by Diego Gracián, with the corrections made in 1781 by Casimiro Flórez Canseco. I couldn't found any photo of it online, it's a very nice old book with leather hardcover  Here are more data of this edition.


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## Αγγελος

I see. So the sentence with the _stigma_s is a Greek quotation in an 18th-century Spanish text. That makes sense; Greek typography used a good many ligatures at the time, which makes it hard to read for us moderns. I hope the main body of Xenophon's text in your (presumably bilingual) book is printed in a more modern typography!


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## soplamocos

Αγγελος said:


> I hope the main body of Xenophon's text in your (presumably bilingual) book is printed in a more modern typography!



No, It's only in Spanish. For the greek text I'm using the version available in Perseus and others books.


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