# Punjabi: tabar



## Cilquiestsuens

Hi,
 
I hear this Punjabi word used as meaning both :
1) husband (or may be spouse?), and 
2) family (ghar wale) : which makes in Punjabized Urdu : 
 
*udhar tabar ka tabar* (= the whole family/household) *chalaa gaya*.
 
Can our expert Punjabi speakers throw some lights on the use / meaning(s) and possibly etymology of the word?????
 
Thanks in advance.


----------



## panjabigator

I am away from my Panjabi dictionaries, so I cannot confirm usages or etymology, unfortunately.  I understand the word in the same way you define as, but I have mainly heard it as a whole family unit.  Oddly enough, I heard the exact same sentence you've written - some neighbor had lost his entire family.  It was said by a Panjabi speaker born and raised in Delhi (in her 50s), but she is an absolute perfect trilingual, so I assumed that the word also worked in Hindi.  I guess it works in Delhi Hindi.


----------



## bakshink

Tabar is a Punjabi word- Origin, I don't know. It means the whole family more than just a couple. As you say Kuttumb or Parivar in Hindi.

Tabar da tabar is a way of saying with emphasis. It means the whole family.
Sari Baraat di Baraat bhukhyaan di toli si means the whole marriage party and not the progeny of the "baraatees".
And Cliqui- Udhar Tabar ka tabar chala gaya is wrong. Tabar is not a Hindi word. Udhar sara parivar chala gaya. Even udhar sara parivaar ka parivar chala gaya or udhar sara ka sara parivaar chala gaya are all ok. 

Hindi Synoyms for Family
Family:- कुटुम्ब,कुल,घराना,परिवार,बाल बच्चे,भाई बन्धु,वंश (Kutumbh, Kul, Gharaana, Parivaar, Bal-bachche, Bhai-bhandhu, Vansh)


----------



## arsham

In Persian we have tabaar, meaning (large extended)family; lineage


----------



## bakshink

Thanks arsham so it's a bit of Persian for us.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

What about tabar meaning husband.... I have heard it this way also, can you confirm, Bakshi sb...???

I'm puzzled as for the origin of this word (is it really Persian???)


----------



## panjabigator

My opinion is unsubstantiated, but I just don't think it's Persian origin.  Aren't most words of Persian origin also used in Urdu as well or is that a mistake to think so?

I am now starting to think that it's mainly used for the family as a whole and not for individuals.  I am meeting with some Panjabi _maharīn_ for the next 2 weeks, so I'll ask them. As it is, if you have some unsolvable doozies of questions, post them and I'll do the research.


----------



## bakshink

Husband is Khasam, Gharwala, Gabroo, Mard, Aadmi, and lovingly?? called Dola, Sajan, Chan.
Wife is Janani, Teemi, Wauti, Gharwali, Rann and lovingly called Jaan?? and whatever you can think she is.
Family is tabbar, Ghar de, Parivaar.


----------



## Faylasoof

arsham said:


> in Persian we have tabaar, meaning (large extended)family; lineage



!این واژه نيز درزبان اردو استفاده میشود​ تَبار _tabaar_ = family (خاندان _xaandaan_) , progeny (آل اولاد _aal-aulaad_), clan / tribe (کنبہ _kunbah_ / قبیلہ _qabeelah_),  houshold (اہل و عیال _ahl-o-‘ayaal_ /  گھرانا _gharaanaa_).

  Initially when I saw the title I assumed it was تَبَر _taba_r! Used in Urdu too. Originally from Persian meaning <_axe_>! In Farsi used for any _axe_ but in Urdu always for a <_battle axe_> synonymous with تَبَر زین _tabar ziin_ = saddle axe.  For alliteration, often found with تیغ _tegh_ or تیر _tiir_ e.g. تیروتَبَر _tiir o tabar_  or  تیغ وتَبَر_ tegh o tabar_. Just like  _nezah-o-nishtar_ and _barchhii-o-bhaalaa_.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof said:


> !این واژه نيز درزبان اردو استفاده میشود​
> تَبار _tabaar_ = family (خاندان _xaandaan_) , progeny (آل اولاد _aal-aulaad_), clan / tribe (کنبہ _kunbah_ / قبیلہ _qabeelah_), houshold (اہل و عیال _ahl-o-‘ayaal_ / گھرانا _gharaanaa_).
> 
> Initially when I saw the title I assumed it was تَبَر _taba_r! Used in Urdu too. Originally from Persian meaning <_axe_>! In Farsi used for any _axe_ but in Urdu always for a <_battle axe_> synonymous with تَبَر زین _tabar ziin_ = saddle axe. For alliteration, often found with تیغ _tegh_ or تیر _tiir_ e.g. تیروتَبَر _tiir o tabar_ or تیغ وتَبَر_ tegh o tabar_. Just like _nezah-o-nishtar_ and _barchhii-o-bhaalaa_.


 
tabar = axe... There is this maqta' (I think) of Ghalib when he says, that He (as opposed to Fahad, or some other legendary Persian lover??) didn't need a tabar (axe) to kill himself, his passional love did that... I can't find that she'r anymore... Do you remember it?

(End of the digression)

I should have spelt the word Tabbar (initial retroflex T)....

I've asked a lot around... Now I'm pretty much sure it means 
1. family
2. wife

Although the word is always used in the masculine.


----------



## Faylasoof

Cilquiestsuens said:


> tabar = axe... There is this maqta' (I think) of Ghalib when he says, that He (as opposed to Fahad, or some other legendary Persian lover??) didn't need a tabar (axe) to kill himself, his passional love did that... I can't find that she'r anymore... Do you remember it? ...



I'm afraid Clico I am having a failure of _total recall _at the moment! It is  familiar though. Shall look for it and we can start a new thread.



> I should have spelt the word Tabbar (initial retroflex T)....
> 
> I've asked a lot around... Now I'm pretty much sure it means
> 1. family
> 2. wife
> 
> Although the word is always used in the masculine.



Did you really mean to write <Ta*bb*ar> or is this a typo? I've only come across <tab*aa*r تَبار>. .. and why the <initial retroflex T>? Is  this how it is in Punjabi?


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof said:


> I'm afraid Clico I am having a failure of _total recall _at the moment! It is familiar though. Shall look for it and we can start a new thread.


 
Same here. First, my memory failed me, and second, yesterday I went through Deewan-e-Ghaalib.... and could not find it... Its bugging me....




Faylasoof said:


> Did you really mean to write <Ta*bb*ar> or is this a typo? I've only come across <tab*aa*r تَبار>. .. and why the <initial retroflex T>? Is this how it is in Punjabi?


 
Faylas, it is the way I hear it all the time.... I have planned to buy a big Punjabi-Urdu dictionary today and will revert to you tomorrow....


----------



## panjabigator

> I have planned to buy a big Punjabi-Urdu dictionary today and will revert to you tomorrow....



You MUST (pretty please!) send me the info on this book!

And <tabbar> is pronounced with a tashdeed over the "be".


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> You MUST (pretty please!) send me the info on this book!
> 
> And <tabbar> is pronounced with a tashdeed over the "be".


 
I will !!! I was just paying a visit to a famous bookstore here in Lahore and noticed it....

I must say I never thought of learning seriously Punjabi before.....


----------



## panjabigator

Well, <huN taa.n tuhānū.n sikhkhṇī pavegī>.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Look at the meanings of tabbar according to this dictionary I just found out online.


----------



## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> You MUST (pretty please!) send me the info on this book!
> 
> And <tabbar> is pronounced with a tashdeed over the "be".



I see, PG! The use of shaddah / tashdeed here (over _be_) explains a few other words in Punjabi or Punjabi influenced Urdu (some of Pak-Urdu) I've noticed, e.g. <chaTTaan> instead of our (Lukhnavi Urdu) <chaTaan> and also <aTTaa> instead of our <aaTaa>. 

Now I can't say these spellings / pronunciations are universally true for all Punjabi dialects (there are, I understand, quite a few), but I've heard these often enough. 

... and I just talked to someone who knows Punjabi and she reiterated that it is indeed <_Tabbar_>. So, perhaps only in Urdu we've retained the original Persian spelling / pronunciation.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof said:


> I see, PG! The use of shaddah / tashdeed here (over _be_) explains a few other words in Punjabi or Punjabi influenced Urdu (some of Pak-Urdu) I've noticed, e.g. <chaTTaan> instead of our (Lukhnavi Urdu) <chaTaan> and also <aTTaa> instead of our <aaTaa>.
> 
> Now I can't say these spellings / pronunciations are universally true for all Punjabi dialects (there are, I understand, quite a few), but I've heard these often enough.
> 
> ... and I just talked to someone who knows Punjabi and she reiterated that it is indeed <_Tabbar_>. So, perhaps only in Urdu we've retained the original Persian spelling / pronunciation.


 
I am pretty much sure this is a desi word and not a Persian one.

First, in my knowledge, there is not a single instance in Urdu / Punjabi of making the interdental consonant (t) of Persian a Retroflex (as in Tabbar), especially in the initial letter.

Then the change you mention between Urdu and Punjabi occurs only on the first syllable of a word, and if you look at etymology, you'll see that Punjabi has simplified a cluster of consonant while Urdu made it disappear while elongating a short vowel (Punjabi, then, is closer to the original)

gaDDii vs. gaaRii (don't know the origin 
agge vs. aage (sanskrit agram, pali aggam)
kamm vs. kaam (sanskirt : karma, pali : kamma)
akkh vs. aa.nkh (sanskrit : aksha, pali akkha)


----------



## Qureshpor

Cilquiestsuens said:


> Hi,
> 
> I hear this Punjabi word used as meaning both :
> 1) husband (or may be spouse?), and
> 2) family (ghar wale) : which makes in Punjabized Urdu :
> 
> *udhar tabar ka tabar* (= the whole family/household) *chalaa gaya*.
> 
> Can our expert Punjabi speakers throw some lights on the use / meaning(s) and possibly etymology of the word?????
> 
> Thanks in advance.



Tabbar= Husband+wife+children

Tabrii = Wife (Not to be confused with T_hibrii= Urdu Dhibrii= [metallic]nut)

Punjabi film dialogue: Oe, maiN Tabbar khaa ke Dakaar na'iiN maardaa!


----------



## Sheikh_14

Tabrii is very new to me but love it Qureshpor SaaHib, most especially that end quote, rofl! Tabbar btw is used nowadays in Urdu at least as part of Urdabi.


----------



## Alfaaz

_Tabbar _is actually listed in Urdu dictionaries (here in Farhang-e-Asifiyyah; here in Feroz-ul-Lughaat; Platts quoted below) and Platts suggest it to be a cognate of Persian _tabaar_ (mentioned above as well). 

Relevant entries:


> H ٿبر टब्बर _ṭabbar_, s.m. Family, household (=_ṭābar_, q.v.).





> H ٿابر टाबर _ṭābar_ (i.q. _ḍābar_, q.v.), s.m. A small lake, a pond, tank, pool (cf. _ṭabbar_; _ḍabrā_);—a hut, cottage (cf. _ṭāpā_, _ṭāprā_); *family, household (cf. tabār)*.





> P تبار _tabār_, s.m. People, nation, tribe, race, family, house, line.


----------



## desi4life

_Tabbar _is originally a Punjabi word, though it has spread to other languages too. The Hindi cognate is _Taabar, _which in addition to family/household also means child/boy.


----------



## amiramir

Qureshpor said:


> maiN Tabbar khaa ke Dakaar na'iiN maardaa!



What does this mean? My rudimentary Punjabi tells me it means: I (a male) having eaten my family am not burping...


----------

