# Etymology: Persian zemestân (winter)



## PersoLatin

I believe zem (زمستا ن *zem*estân winter) is a Persian cognate of PIE *gheim, I have also seen *dai *(*دی*) listed as Persian for winter & a cognate of *gheim, is this correct? 

*دی *(dey) is the first month of winter in the Persian calendar and starts on winter solstice (21/22 Dec).


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## fdb

PersoLatin said:


> I believe zem (زمستا ن *zem*estân winter) is a Persian cognate of PIE *gheim,



That is correct.



PersoLatin said:


> I have also seen *dai *(*دی*) listed as Persian for winter & a cognate of *gheim, is this correct?
> 
> *دی *(dey) is the first month of winter in the Persian calendar and starts on winter solstice (21/22 Dec).



Dai is the tenth month of the Zoroastrian calendar, and it commemorates the "Creator" (Dai), that is: Ahura Mazda. It is not cognate with the word for "winter".

The Zoroastrian calendar has a vague year of exactly 365 days with no leap years. This means that any of the months can fall in any season. But in the modern (post-1920s) Persian calendar Dai falls at the beginning of winter, and its name is used metaphorically for "winter".


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## marrish

What is the classical vocalization here? zamistān or zimastān?


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## marrish

I'm asking because I've been told that zima would be better with the reason Sanskrit hima-.


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## PersoLatin

Is زم zam of زمهرير the same as in zamistân? زمهرير means 'very cold' but it is also Arabic which makes it confusing.


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## momai

PersoLatin said:


> Is زم zam of زمهرير the same as in zamistân? زمهرير means 'very cold' but it is also Arabic which makes it confusing.


In Syrian Arabic we have both زميتة and زمهرير the latter doesn't look arabic at all for me but I don't know about the former.


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## PersoLatin

Hi momai, please check this link.


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## fdb

marrish said:


> I'm asking because I've been told that zima would be better with the reason Sanskrit hima-.



You are right. Vedic hima- = Avestan ziiam- (zero-grade zim-). In Persian one would expect zimistān, although the spelling of the words for “winter” in Manichaean Parthian (zmg) and Manichaean Middle Persian (dmystʼn) suggest a vowel /a/ in the first syllable.


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## momai

I know that zamhareer is mentioned in the Quran and is a well-established word in Arabic(FuSha) I just wanted to say that it doesn't seem to be of Arabic origin .I've never seen any other example of a word that resemble zamhareer in its wazn (fa3laleel?).


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## PersoLatin

Ah, ok, I understand, hopefully someone will be able to tell us it's etymology.


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## ahvalj

Couldn't this _a_ in the Middle Persian _zam_ and _dmyst'n_ be the result of the simplification of the initial cluster in _*źyam- _(Avestan _zyam-_)?


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## mundiya

Is Persian "zam-" ultimately a loanword from Avestan? The Old Persian cognate should've begun with a "d", right? That's the case with Avestan "zasta", Old Persian "dasta".


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## ahvalj

mundiya said:


> Is Persian "zam-" ultimately a loanword from Avestan? The Old Persian cognate should've begun with a "d", right? That's the case with Avestan "zasta", Old Persian "dasta".


Not necessarily Avestan: this _*ź_>_*đ_>_d_ was a local phenomenon at the extreme south-west of the Iranic speech: all the other attested Iranic dialects from the Indian boundary to the Danube had _*ź>z, _and for each stage of Persian the main source of these _z_-words is usually assumed to be in the dialects of what is now north-western Iran, beginning with the Median period.


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## fdb

Manichaean Middle Persian actually has the expected SW-Iranian form damestān, as do at least some of the modern SW dialects. A lot of words in Persian have z-, not d-, as reflex of IE ǵ, including basic (presumably not borrowed) items like zādan “to be born”.


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## ahvalj

_Zan_ must be from _jani_-, cp. _queen_.


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## fdb

ahvalj said:


> _Zan_ must be from _jani_-, cp. _queen_.



You are right. It was a bad example. I have replaced it by a better one.


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## PersoLatin

Thank you everyone.

Any ideas on possible link between زمهرير zamharir & zam (*gheim) please?


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## fdb

PersoLatin said:


> Any ideas on possible link between زمهرير zamharir & zam (*gheim) please?



The word zamharīr appears exactly once in the Qurʼān (76:13), where it is stated that the righteous men in paradise will “see neither the sun nor zamharīr”. The classic mufassirūn admitted that they did not really know what this word means. Some suggested that it means “moon” (which make good sense in the context), while others said that it means “intense cold”. The lexicographers connect it with a verb izmaharra, which is supposed to mean either “to shine intensely” or “to be red with anger”. I suspect that the meaning “intense cold” was postulated by some Persian-speaking commentator, who connected it with the Persian word for “winter”. But what then is “harīr” supposed to mean?


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## PersoLatin

Thank you fdb.



fdb said:


> “see neither the sun nor zamharīr”.


I suppose if you imagine the sun as a source of "intense heat" then it would makes sense for zamharīr to mean “intense cold”, as "righteous men" are promised a place (heaven) which is neither too hot or too cold, however this would need zam (of zamharir) to be a loan from Persian.

Isn't zādan mainly "to give birth"?


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