# Prove / test / taste



## ThomasK

One could say:
(1) in order to *prove *that some wine is good (Lat. _probare_)
(2) you have got to *test *it (check it ?) (probably referring to Lat. _testum_, pot)
(3) by *tasting *it (probably referring to Lat. _tax(t)are_, to evaluate)
(4) and then *find out* _[not so sure whether this verb could be linked with any of the others in your language, but who knows...]_
(5) whether it *tastes *good. (id.) 
So: 1 x _probare_, 1 x _test_[_um_], 2 x _taste _[_taxare_]... 

When I translate that into Dutch, there are often other words, but some stems do return: 
(1) *bewijzen *(wijzen - to point at)
(2) *testen*, maybe *toetsen *(referring to It. _toccare_, to touch - Dutch also: _tasten_, but only meaning touching)
(3) *proeven *(Fr. _deguster, _see _prove_)
(4) *ontdekken *(lit. _dis-cover _in English)
(5) *smaken *(het smaakt goed) (recognizable in the English _to smack_)
So : 1 x _probare_, 1 x _taxare /_ _toccare_, 1 x _smaken. And_ of course there are cross-references with English. 

How about your language? Any links between any of those words?


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## Tamar

1. כדי לוודא שיין מסוים הוא טוב - in order to verify (not sure this is what you meant) that a certain wine is good. *Verify *= *levade*
3. צריך לטעום אותו - have to taste it (there's no subject here, it's like "Il faut", only without "Il" as we don't always need a subject in Hebrew). T*aste =* *lit'om*.
4 .ואז לגלות - and then f*ind out, discover =* l*egalot*
5. אם הוא טעים - if he (wine is masculin in Hebrew) is *tasty *= *ta'im.*

I did not translate sentence 2, it is possible to translate it but then sentence 3 comes out strange, I'm not sure how to say it.
Lit'om (taste) and ta'im (tasty) are of the same root, ט-ע-מ, t-aiyn-m (aiyn is what is marked as an apostrophe).


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## apmoy70

> (1) in order to *prove* that some wine is good (Lat. probare)


Verb «αποδεικνύω» (apoðik'nio) or colloquially, «αποδείχνω» (apo'ðixno)--> _to point out, prove_. Classical verb «ἀποδείκνυμι» (ăpŏ'deiknūmĭ)--> init. _to make known, point out, show forth_, later, _prove_. PIE base *deik-, _to show, point out_.


> (2) you have got to *test* it (check it ?) (probably referring to Lat. testum, pot)


Verb «δοκιμάζω» (ðoci'mazo), or, «εξετάζω» (ekse'tazo).
A/ «Δοκιμάζω» (ðoci'mazo)--> _to try_. Classical verb «δοκιμάζω» (dŏkĭ'māzō)--> _to assay, test, try_. PIE base *dek-/*dok-, _proper, fitting_.
B/ «Εξετάζω» (ekse'tazo)--> _to test, examine well, scrutinise_. Classical verb «ἐξετάζω» (ĕksĕ'tāzō)--> _to review, examine, scrutinise_. From the ancient (now obsolete; in Modern Greek is found only in compounds) adj. «ἐτεός, -ὰ, -όν» (ĕtĕ'ŏs, _m._/ĕtĕ'ă, _f._/ĕtĕ'ŏn, _n._)--> _true, genuine_. PIE base *seto-, _true_.


> (3) by *tasting* it (probably referring to Lat. tax(t)are, to evaluate)


Verb «δοκιμάζω» (ðoci'mazo).


> (4) and then *find out*


Verb «διαπιστώνω» (ðiapis'tono), or, «αποφαίνομαι» (apo'fenome).
A/ «Διαπιστώνω» (ðiapis'tono)--> _to find out, believe thoroughly_. Learned (Katharevousa) verb constructed in 1806.
B/ «Αποφαίνομαι» (apo'fenome)--> _to declare one's opinion, to produce evidence_. Classical verb «ἀποφαίνομαι» (ăpŏ'pʰænŏmæ) with similar meaning. PIE base *bha-(1), _to shine_.


> (5) whether it *tastes* good.


In Greek we'd use either i) an adjective, or, ii) a periphrasis:
i) Adj. «εύγευστος, -η, -ο» ('evjefstos, _m._/'evjefsti, _f._/'evjefsto, _n._)--> _well-tasted_. Learned (Katharevousa) adj. constructed in 1886. From the ancient adv. «εὐ» (eu-)--> _well_ + third declension feminine noun «γεῦσις» ('geusīs), «γεύση» ('jefsi) in Modern Greek pronunciation--> _sense of taste_. We'd then say _"the wine is «εύγευστο»_ (the neuter adj. for the wine is a neuter noun in Modern Greek). PIE base *geus-, _to taste, relish_ (cf. Lat. _gustus_, Eng. _choose_, Fr. _goûte_).
ii) Perisphrasis, _it has good «γεύση» ('jefsi)_ (see above for the noun).

So, 1x «αποδεικνύω», 2x «δοκιμάζω», 1x «διαπιστώνω» or «αποφαίνομαι», 1x «γεύση» or adj. that contains «γεύση».


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## Maroseika

*Russian

*1. Проверить < вера - belief (вера [vera] - cognate of  *Latin verus* - true).
2. Попробовать < проба - test (проба [proba] - loaned from *German Probe* - probe < *Latin probare*).
3. Same as # 2 (Russian word means as to taste, as to test and to try).
4. Узнать < знание - knowledge (знание [znaniye] - cognate of *Latin nosco* - I know < PIE *gen - to know).
5. Вкус - taste < кус - a bite (кус [kus] - cognate of *Greek κνώδων *- knife and maybe* OHG hantag* - sharp).


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## Outsider

In Portuguese you can use some cognate of _probare_ for the first 4, and more arguably for (5).

(1) para *provar/mostrar* que um vinho é bom
(2) é preciso *pô-lo à prova/testá-lo*.
(3) e depois *comprovar/verificar* -- the latter means "verify", a cognate of L. _verus_, true!
(5) se *é aprovado/sabe bem*. (This is a paraphrase meaning "is approved". In regional speech I have heard _aprovar_ in the intransitive sense of "come out right", with reference to food.)

The full sentence sounds pretty contrived, though.


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## tFighterPilot

Tamar said:


> 1. כדי לוודא שיין מסוים הוא טוב - in order to verify (not sure this is what you meant) that a certain wine is good. *Verify *= *levade*
> 3. צריך לטעום אותו - have to taste it (there's no subject here, it's like "Il faut", only without "Il" as we don't always need a subject in Hebrew). T*aste =* *lit'om*.
> 4 .ואז לגלות - and then f*ind out, discover =* l*egalot*
> 5. אם הוא טעים - if he (wine is masculin in Hebrew) is *tasty *= *ta'im.*
> 
> I did not translate sentence 2, it is possible to translate it but then sentence 3 comes out strange, I'm not sure how to say it.
> Lit'om (taste) and ta'im (tasty) are of the same root, ט-ע-מ, t-aiyn-m (aiyn is what is marked as an apostrophe).


I don't see the problem
1) כדי להוכיח שיין כלשהו טוב I think Leho(kh)ia(ch) would be more fitting since we're translating "prove" and not verify
2) עליך לבדוק זאת Check=Livdok, It=Zot (The theory, not the wine)
3) על ידי טעימתו Te'imato = "The tasting of him"


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## ancalimon

The only similar word in Turkish is taste <> tat   and that Italian  toccare <> dokun (probably related to Turkish değ:touch) . The rest are either borrowed words or different.


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## ThomasK

Thanks, everyone, for this very valuable information. I might be in touch with some more specific questions, but give me some more time.


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> One could say1) in order to *prove *that some wine is good (Lat. _probare_)(2) you have got to *test *it (check it ?) (probably referring to Lat. _testum_, pot)(3) by *tasting *it (probably referring to Lat. _tax(t)are_, to evaluate)(4) and then *find out* _[not so sure whether this verb could be linked with any of the others in your language, but who knows...]_(5) whether it *tastes *good. (id.) So: 1 x _probare_, 1 x _test_[_um_], 2 x _taste _[_taxare_]... When I translate that into Dutch, there are often other words, but some stems do return: (1) *bewijzen *(wijzen - to point at)(2) *testen*, maybe *toetsen *(referring to It. _toccare_, to touch - Dutch also: _tasten_, but only meaning touching)(3) *proeven *(Fr. _deguster, _see _prove_)(4) *ontdekken *(lit. _dis-cover _in English)(5) *smaken *(het smaakt goed) (recognizable in the English _to smack_)So : 1 x _probare_, 1 x _taxare /_ _toccare_, 1 x _smaken. And_ of course there are cross-references with English. How about your language? Any links between any of those words?


In Tagalog: 1.) Upang "mapatunayan" na ang ibang alak ay mainam ang lasa.2.)Kailangang "subukin" mo iyon.3.)Sa "pagtikim" niyon. 4.)At nang sa gayon ay "malaman iyon". 5.)Kung iyon ba ay may "masarap na lasa". .


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## Orlin

Maroseika said:


> *Russian
> 
> *1. Проверить < вера - belief (вера [vera] - cognate of *Latin verus* - true). Bulgarian проверя, Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (BCS) prov(j)eriti
> 2. Попробовать < проба - test (проба [proba] - loaned from *German Probe* - probe < *Latin probare*). Bulgarian пробвам, BCS probati
> 3. Same as # 2 (Russian word means as to taste, as to test and to try). =#2 in Bulgarian and BCS
> 4. Узнать < знание - knowledge (знание [znaniye] - cognate of *Latin nosco* - I know < PIE *gen - to know). Bulgarian узная, BCS saznati
> 5. Вкус - taste < кус - a bite (кус [kus] - cognate of *Greek κνώδων *- knife and maybe* OHG hantag* - sharp). Bulgarian вкус, BCS ukus


+ Bulgarian & BCS, very similar to Russian.


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## Favara

Catalan
(1) Per tal de *provar* que un vi és bo (Lat. _probare_)
(2) l'has de *provar* (same)
(3) *tastant*-lo
(4) i llavors *veure* ("to see")
(5) si *fa* bon *gust *(_fer gust_ = "to make a taste")


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## ThomasK

mataripis said:


> In Tagalog: 1.) Upang "mapatunayan" na ang ibang alak ay mainam ang lasa.2.)Kailangang "subukin" mo iyon.3.)Sa "pagtikim" niyon. 4.)At nang sa gayon ay "malaman iyon". 5.)Kung iyon ba ay may "masarap na lasa". .



Does that mean there is no link at all? I suppose 'lasa' is good, but otherwise I don't see anything similar. And: are you suggesting by the quotation marks that those are the words I printed in bold?


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## Tamar

> I don't see the problem
> 1) כדי להוכיח שיין כלשהו טוב I think Leho(kh)ia(ch) would be more fitting since we're translating "prove" and not verify
> 2) עליך לבדוק זאת Check=Livdok, It=Zot (The theory, not the wine)
> 3) על ידי טעימתו Te'imato = "The tasting of him"



Thanks, tFighterPilot!


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## ThomasK

I compared Catalan with French, or I tried to: 
(1) prouver
(2) tester - ???
(3) goûter (gustare)
(4) découvrir/... 
(5) avoir un bon goût
Catalan has this _prob_- twice, French has _goûter _twice. 

German (just trying): 
(1) beweisen (see Dutch), etc.
(2) testen, prüfen
(3) kosten (vermutlich gustare)
(4) entdecke, herausfinden
(5) schmecken
German seems to use five diffrent verbs, though _prüfen _and _kosten _have a similar semantic root, if one can say that...


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## mataripis

exactly. 1.)mapatunayan= prove   2.)subukin=test    3.) pagtikim= taste test   4.)malaman iyon= find out  5.) masarap na lasa= tastes good     / lasa is taste


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## OneStroke

Chinese:
prove - 證明 zhengming/證實 zhengshi, etc.
test (to examine) - 測*試* ceshi/*試*驗 shiyan, etc.
test (assessment) -測驗 ceyan
taste - 嚐/嘗 chang (compare to try 嘗*試* changshi)


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## ThomasK

Does any have a similar root ? Like ce- ?


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## sakvaka

*Finnish*:

(1) _todistaaksesi _onko viini hyvää (< _todistaa_ 'prove'*)
(2) sinun täytyy _kokeilla_ (or, informally, _testata_ "to test") (< _kokeilla_ 'try [it] out', derived from a root meaning among others touching, experiencing, experimenting!)
(3) _maistamalla _sitä (< _maistaa_)
(4) ja sen jälkeen _saat selville_ (< _saada selville_**)
(5) _maistuuko _se hyvältä (< _maistua_)

* My dictionary suggested this as translation for _bewijzen_.
* Consists of _saada_ (get, receive; also: manage to make sth sth) and an adverbial formation of _selvä_ (clear, evident, known).


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## ThomasK

Very interesting to see that you use four roots to translate the sentence - whereas we need five.


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## AquisM

ThomasK said:


> Does any have a similar root ? Like ce- ?


Going through the terms that are in my head right now, I think Chinese links testing/tasting with trying (试/試 - shi), but verifying/proving has a different root (证/證 - zheng - proof / 实/實 - shi - truth/reality). This is also shown in other terms for verifying/proving - 核实/核實 (heshi - lit. check truth). I guess we see the process of checking/testing as separate from what is definitely true. The only term that I can think of with a slight sense of investigating/examining/checking is 查证/查證 (chazheng - lit. investigate prove), but the full sense of the word would be close to _investigate and verify._


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## ThomasK

Interesting to see that the link with truth is not self-evident (or only implicit). We use _testen _in a very practical sense, _proeven _(taste) also, and _bewijzen _(prove)is rather a matter of power, I think, than of truth for us. We can _bewijzen _without really imposing the truth in that way; what results from the evidence is more important (being considered 'right', getting something done, etc.). Our wijzen refers to pointing by the way.


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## ThomasK

The senses question in the All Languages section reminded me of this thread: _*tasten *_(tactile sense) in Dutch reminds me of *testen *(to test) and _*to taste *_in English. *proeven *(taste) refers to the tasting sense, but metaphorically it has developed into other senses...


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## Sempervirens

Ciao, Thomask! Sul momento mi vengono a mente questi verbi: assaggiare, provare, gustare, provare, degustare, assaporare.

Toccare, saggiare e testare non sono verbi usati per sostituire quelli della lista sopra, parlando di assaggio di un prodotto enogastronomico.  

Il verbo tastare ha significati prossimi a quello di palpare.  Cosicché ogniqualvolta vedo _"to taste"_ , per me graficamente simile al verbo italiano _tastare_, non posso fare a meno di sghignazzare tra me e me. 

P.S Spero che queste poche parole in italiano possano essere comprese. 

S.V


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## ThomasK

I can almost understand, but I have some extra questions: 
- _assaggiare, assaporare, (de--)gustare_: can they be used in a figurative sense? 
- _provare:  _just trying, or also tasting? 
- I do not know enough about the precise use of_ toccare, saggiare, testare_. _Toccare _is only physical touching, isn't it, but then so is _palpare_, no? Are the other two like testing? And the _sagg_-root please? 
I must admit the clue of your last line eludes me, I am afraid...


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## ger4

In German we could say...

(1) in order to _prove_ that some wine is good (Lat. probare)
(1) um zu _beweisen_, dass ein Wein gut ist [_beweisen_ - 'to prove']
(2) you have got to _test_ it (check it ?) (probably referring to Lat. testum, pot)
(2) muss man ihn _proben_ [_proben_ - 'to test' | _testen, prüfen _are possible but would sound too 'technical' in German]*
(3) by _tasting_ it (probably referring to Lat. tax(t)are, to evaluate)
(3) indem man ihn _probiert, kostet_ [_probiert, kostet < probieren, kosten - _here: 'to try out what something tastes like']
(4) and then find out [not so sure whether this verb could be linked with any of the others in your language, but who knows...]
(4) und (kann) dann _herausfinden _[_heraus ~ _'out'_, finden -_ 'to find'] 
(5) whether it _tastes_ good. (id.)
(5) ob er gut _schmeckt _[_< schmecken ~ _'to sense a taste']

* _einen Motor testen_ - to test an engine; you could also _testen_ the alcohol content of the wine, i.e. a measurable, 'objective' quality

1  _beweisen_ | 2 _proben_ | 3 _probieren, kosten_ | 4  _herausfinden_ | 5  _schmecken

_Sentences copied from #1


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## Sempervirens

ThomasK said:


> I can almost understand, but I have some extra questions:
> - _assaggiare, assaporare, (de--)gustare_: can they be used in a figurative sense?
> - _provare:  _just trying, or also tasting?
> - I do not know enough about the precise use of_ toccare, saggiare, testare_. _Toccare _is only physical touching, isn't it, but then so is _palpare_, no? Are the other two like testing? And the _sagg_-root please? http://www.etimo.it/?term=assaggiare
> I must admit the clue of your last line eludes me, I am afraid...



S.V


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