# Why British singers sing with American accent



## Pablete

Could someone explain me that? Maybe I'm wrong and it's only my imagination 
((?) quizás son imaginaciones mías).


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## rogelio

Pablete,
I will give you my opinion, for what it's worth.  Australian singers also often sing without their distinctive (and beautiful) Australian accent.  It is not so much that British singers (or any singers singing in English) sing with an American accent.  It is more like they sing in a neutral manner, or without an accent at all.  My wife is a trained singer (voice major in college) and teacher of music (voice and piano).  When she speaks, she has an accent, when she sings she does not.  I am teaching her Spanish, and she can sing in Spanish flawlessly, but is still working on conversational speaking.  Also, speaking technically, speech and song are controlled by two different areas of the brain.  That is why people who have had strokes or other speech-affecting problems are sometimes taught to speak in a sing-song pattern.  Sorry this is so long, but I hope it helps.  
(Si quieres la respuesta en español en lugar de ingles, mandame una mensaje y intentare otra vez)
Chau,
Rogelio


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## dave

Rogelio, that's really interesting. I think you're absolutely right about the 'neutral' singing voice - when listening to a song sung in English it is usually impossible to tell the native country of the singer. There are of course some notable exceptions - the Proclaimers sing in their Scottish accent, and I suppose a lot of C&W singers retain their (usually southern) US accent.


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## rogelio

dave said:
			
		

> Rogelio, that's really interesting. I think you're absolutely right about the 'neutral' singing voice - when listening to a song sung in English it is usually impossible to tell the native country of the singer. There are of course some notable exceptions - the Proclaimers sing in their Scottish accent, and I suppose a lot of C&W singers retain their (usually southern) US accent.



Thanks Dave,
you're right some groups (C&W singers are a good example) intentionally retain their accent when singing.  But outside of that, it's usually neutral.
Glad you liked the info -
Chau,
 
Rogelio


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## Pablete

Thank you very much Rogelio and Dave. 

Maybe there are exceptions to what you explained to me. U2 is the only band to which I can 
notice they use their native Irish sounds. But I always listen British singers pronouncing the
letter "o" as in the US: /a:/ instead of the British sound /o/, mostly in the very common word
"got". I suppose /a:/ is more neutral and relaxed.


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## Tormenta

rogelio said:
			
		

> Pablete,
> I will give you my opinion, for what it's worth.  Australian singers also often sing without their distinctive (and beautiful) Australian accent.  It is not so much that British singers (or any singers singing in English) sing with an American accent.  It is more like they sing in a neutral manner, or without an accent at all.  My wife is a trained singer (voice major in college) and teacher of music (voice and piano).  When she speaks, she has an accent, when she sings she does not.  I am teaching her Spanish, and she can sing in Spanish flawlessly, but is still working on conversational speaking.  Also, speaking technically, speech and song are controlled by two different areas of the brain.  That is why people who have had strokes or other speech-affecting problems are sometimes taught to speak in a sing-song pattern.  Sorry this is so long, but I hope it helps.
> (Si quieres la respuesta en español en lugar de ingles, mandame una mensaje y intentare otra vez)
> Chau,
> Rogelio





Thanks Rogelio, this is very interesting.  I had noticed the "neutrality" in the accents of many singers but I did not know the reason.

Tormenta


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## rogelio

Tormenta said:
			
		

> Thanks Rogelio, this is very interesting.  I had noticed the "neutrality" in the accents of many singers but I did not know the reason.
> 
> Tormenta


De nada, Tormenta - Your answers have helped me out so many times!  Me da mucho gusto escribir algo que te interese!

Chau Che,
Rogelio


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## gddrew

You're right about the neutrality. I am usually surprised to find out that a singing group is British because you can't normally tell. With some of the big hair bands of the 80s it was easy to tell (the Thompson Twins comes to mind), but usually not the case. I've also noticed in Spanish I can't really distinguish the Spaniards unless they pronounce something with their characteristic Z or C before an E or I (corazón). But then, Alejandro Sanz is Spanish but when I first heard him sing I mistook him for Francisco Cespedes, who is Cuban.


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## jacinta

I can usually hear Irish singers immediately!  The Flogging Mollys, U2, the Waterboys, ... they seem to sing with their own sound and it's wonderful to hear.

So, I don't know which is more intentional, the neutral voice or the accent!


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## Mike

I totally agree, jacinta.

Speaking of Irish singers, here is a little-known Irish singer, Damien Dempsey. Click on the download for _F__actories_. (It won't actually download onto your computer, but play in a window.)

I'm sure you'll be able to pick the accent.

Mike
I hope it doesn't come across as a solicitation


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## Focalist

Australians in Kraków, Germans in Norway, Asturians in Sweden, Italians in Paris....etc, und so weiter, ac yn y blaen... That's what means that Word Reference Forums refresh the parts other message boards can't reach!

*Mike*, you are quite right about Damien Dempsey, and it's true that Irish rock/pop singers are much more likely than their British opposite numbers to remain true to their native accent. This may have something to do with the fact that Irish accents are closer in many respects to many American ones than are many British ones.

(I don't subscribe, BTW, to the idea of *an*American or *an* Irish accent, and especially not that of *a* British accent: travel 50 km (and often less) between any two cities in Britain and you will hear clearly different local accents. Only Dick van Dyke thought there was such a thing as "a British accent" -- and look what a colossal mess _he_ made of it!)

Err, where was I? Oh, yes. It's not invariably true, however, that Irish singers will eschew American vowels. There are plenty of bands/singers ready to turn out "aaa c'n see id in your aaaz you ain' tellin' me no laaaz" (my scrutiny of your organs of visual perception confirms to me the veracity of your statement). 

For me, "Aaaa" for "I" is the mark of the deliberate attempt to "sound American". Among English singers, Mick Jagger is a prime example: "Aaa ke-an ged no... se-addisfe-action".

(Sorry, my examples will mostly be archaic since, when it comes to contemporary popular music, I'm a sad old git, well past my sell-by date.)

The Rolling Stones are (were?) a southern English band, of course. Bands from the NW of England (centred earlier upon Liverpool, today Manchester) are more likely to retain their native vowels, but on the whole English-language pop/rock is sung in an American accent. Ask any British 7-year-old to sing "a pop song" and they will immediately adopt a transatlantic accent as if born to it.

Kylie Minogue (Australian) used to sing in a recognizably Australian accent, but fame and fortune soon put paid to that. She now sings down her nose like the best of them.

And anyway, I come back to saying, it all depends on what you mean by an X accent. There are certain American records where the fact that you cannot understand one word in ten almost seems to be the whole point of the song (this is especially true of what I call "caterwauling" music -- sorry Gatoviejo, no offence intended -- where most of the lyrics seem to consist of "ohhhhhh aaaaaaaaaah (incomprehensible) yoooooo-ooo-hoo"). On the other hand, the American singer Nat King Cole had, in my opinion, the most superb diction in the whole history of popular music.

People wishing to be "superior" sometimes accuse Abba of singing English "with a Swedish accent": if you leave aside the fact that they always sing "in your ice" for "in your eyes" (which these critics never mention) they pronounce English magnificently well. Let these jeerers try singing in Swedish, say I!

*rogelio*, BTW, all the preceding concerns "pop music". I agree with everything you had to say concerning the performance of "serious music". Just one thing, though: "when she sings she does not (have an accent)". Not having an accent is, for me, an impossibility. Vary as it might, EVERYONE has an accent, at all times, and in all situations. The Queen of England has an accent, George W. Bush has an accent, I have an accent, and so do we all...

F


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## haylesfrend

I realise this is an old thread, but having just read through I felt I had to put my oar in. It seems to me that everyone is speaking about popular song. To my English ear, It is true - English singers of pop music do sing with American vowel sounds. Listen to the Beatles - they do have a Liverpool twang, but the impression is American. If you compare popular songs from England before 1940, with those that followed, the change in accent is quite marked. Listen to bands from the 1930s singing 'The Sun Has Got His Hat On' and you'll see what I mean.

It is different with Classical music, if anything Americans tend to aim at English sounds and vowels. Today I listened to a voice singing, in French, Saint-Saens' -'Softly Awakes My Heart' from Samson and Delilah And I thought, that girl is not French. There was something not quite right - then I realised, she was rolling her r in the Welsh manner and her nasal sounds were not quite right. It must be Katherine Jenkins I thought. And it was. She has a beautiful voice, but she is Welsh, and I was pleased with myself for identifying it.


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## Edher

Focalist said:
			
		

> People wishing to be "superior" sometimes accuse Abba of singing English "with a Swedish accent": if you leave aside the fact that they always sing "in your ice" for "in your eyes" (which these critics never mention) they pronounce English magnificently well. Let these jeerers try singing in Swedish, say I!
> 
> F



There's a difference in pronunciation between "eyes" and "ice" that's new to me.  lol. Can anyone clarify the difference and tell me how each one is pronounced correctly?

Thank you,
Edher


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## Outsider

I hear people pronounce "ice" with c=[s] and "eyes" with s=[z]. 

P.S. Oh, you're Mexican! Spanish speakers have trouble with this, because the sound [z] does not exist in Spanish.


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## tracerbullet

I agree that most bands sound like Americans when they sing, but I don't think it's just a matter of singing technique, though...I think there's also a conscious effort by many singers to sublimate their accents. I'm not sure whether it's to fit in better on the American airwaves; the influence that America, being the birthplace of rock and roll, has had on the genre; or what, but I think it's true. Conversely, the bands that seem to sound the most "foreign" are usually the ones with a very strong national identity (like the Clash and the Kinks, two quintessentially English bands.)

It's also interesting to note that there's quite a number of American bands that seem to be straining for a British accent (esp. if they're indie or otherwise influenced by Britpop). I guess it goes both ways.


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## VenusEnvy

Edher said:
			
		

> There's a difference in pronunciation between "eyes" and "ice" that's new to me.  lol. Can anyone clarify the difference and tell me how each one is pronounced correctly?





			
				Outsider said:
			
		

> I hear people pronounce "ice" with c=[s] and "eyes" with s=[z].
> 
> P.S. Oh, you're Mexican! Spanish speakers have trouble with this, because the sound [z] does not exist in Spanish.


I agree with Outside on all points. 

I've also attached a recording of how I pronounce the two. Open the sound file with Windows Media Player.


_Eyes. "I have brown eyes."
Ice. "I'd like a glass of water with extra ice."
Eyes, Ice
Eyes, Ice_



I hope this helps! Saludos!


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## Brioche

Pablete said:
			
		

> Could someone explain me that? Maybe I'm wrong and it's only my imagination
> ((?) quizás son imaginaciones mías).


 
There is a particular accent used in singing "top forty"' music, which goes with that type of music.
Hit parade songs belong to a special sub-culture which has its own accent.
This accent makes the songs recognizable as being "pop songs", and makes the songs acceptable internationally.

There is another, quite different accent, used for "country music".


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## panjandrum

Spot-on Brioche.
I wandered down the thread to see if anyone would make that point.  Aspiring singers adopt, deliberately or by accident, the dominant accent of the particular type of music they choose.  They conform.


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## whatonearth

Ah, but surely C&W singers conform as well if you are following that line of thought - as they all sing like one another, regardless of whether they all talk like one another in real life - which is why it is so easy to 'charicature'

I disagree on that point - I don't think there is any preordained "way" of singing. I think when people sing, it's almost a sub-concious action. The 'neutrality' of singing, I believe, comes from the elongation of words and sounds that would never happen in spoken-language, which erodes away any tell-tale 'tics' of that persons accent. I think the only time you really HEAR accents is when the person does not "sing" as such, but uses more of an exaggerated (and melodic) form of speech - for example, the lead singer of the Arctic Monkeys 'sings' like this, and you can CLEARLY hear his Sheffield roots.


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## tvdxer

Speaking of "eyes" and "ice", there seems to be a slightly different dipthong used as well, though I can't identify it right now.  In "eyes", it's more like how we say "pies" (here in the upper midwest), in "ice", it seems more closed.


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## Brioche

whatonearth said:
			
		

> Ah, but surely C&W singers conform as well if you are following that line of thought - as they all sing like one another, regardless of whether they all talk like one another in real life - which is why it is so easy to 'charicature'
> 
> I disagree on that point - I don't think there is any preordained "way" of singing. I think when people sing, it's almost a sub-concious action. The 'neutrality' of singing, I believe, comes from the elongation of words and sounds that would never happen in spoken-language, which erodes away any tell-tale 'tics' of that persons accent. I think the only time you really HEAR accents is when the person does not "sing" as such, but uses more of an exaggerated (and melodic) form of speech - for example, the lead singer of the Arctic Monkeys 'sings' like this, and you can CLEARLY hear his Sheffield roots.


 
Consider Gerry Marsden of _Gerry and the Pacemakers_ (they all have pacemakers now!) who was popular at the same time as the early Beatles. You could clearly hear the Liverpool in his singing. 

Contrast Cilla Black, who made a career out of being a Liverbird when she spoke, but not a hint of it when she sang. That didn't just happen.

I sure if you went to a kindergarten in Birmingham, England and got the kids to sing Ba Ba Black Sheep, it would sound quite different from the kids in Birmingham, Alabama.


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## french4beth

rogelio said:
			
		

> Also, speaking technically, speech and song are controlled by two different areas of the brain. That is why people who have had strokes or other speech-affecting problems are sometimes taught to speak in a sing-song pattern.


Thanks for clarifying that, rogelio - I could never understand how someone who spokes virtually no English could sing a song in English with virtually no accent!  (i.e. Golden Earring, who had the 80's hit "Radar Love").

As I understand it, people who have stutters do not stutter when they sing, either.


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## fenixpollo

haylesfrend said:
			
		

> Listen to the Beatles - they do have a Liverpool twang, but the impression is American. If you compare popular songs from England before 1940, with those that followed, the change in accent is quite marked.


What!!!????  The Beatles are the ones that started it all!  Before the British Invasion, Americans sang with the honky twang that they spoke with.  After the Beatles, American singing pronunciation became much more British.

Maybe the "neutral" singing accent has come about because each side of the pond wanted to sound like the other -- in order to reach more markets, as tracerbullet pointed out above.


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## Suane

I was always wondering about that, so I wasn't alone....
I noticed it also with Robbie Williams who when sings, it just sounds natural to me...but when I heard him speak I was surprised by his strong English accent...


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## danielfranco

To my ears, not even Americans sound American when they sing. 
 It's almost as if singing in English has its own pronunciation... I wonder if any advanced singers out there in the forum can explain in detail, but I think that when you sing you have to adopt a different rate of breathing, and you have to shape your mouth a bit differently than when speaking, in order to be more sonorous, and the phrases are constructed with a different cadence than normal speech (mostly because of the rhymes, I guess)...


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## Brioche

danielfranco said:
			
		

> To my ears, not even Americans sound American when they sing.
> It's almost as if singing in English has its own pronunciation... )...


 
Exactly.
As I mentioned higher up, there's a particular style used for singing pop songs; this includes a "special" accent.


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## fenixpollo

My chorus teachers and voice coaches always taught an open pronunciation, at the front of the mouth.  They didn't teach a British singing pronunciation -- their main enemy was the schwa, and they just wanted people to sing the vowels as they are written.  Their main scourge was the pop singer, who didn't enunciate and didn't project.  They sang in the back of the throat or in the sinuses.  They breathed with the shoulders, not with the diaphragm, and they had no stamina for holding a note, horrible phrasing, and shallow and ragged breathing.  Pop singers hardly sing "properly", when it comes to good singing technique.

We have become accustomed to pop singing, so we assume that their accent is "neutral", because to us it sounds "natural" -- but we're not listening with a critical ear.  Listen critcally and compare The Proclaimers to the Eurythmics; or Blink 182 to Jesse McCartney; or Midnight Oil to AC/DC.  There are singers who are very successful who sing in their regional accent, and there are others who don't.  Many pop singers who want to appeal to _all_ English-speaking markets are taught by their handlers to eliminate the regional oddities from their singing pronunciation, making them sound less particular to a region.


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## orion

fenixpollo said:
			
		

> compare The Proclaimers to the Eurythmics;


That is a great example... it would be almost impossible to sing with a more Scottish accent than the one the Proclaimers sang with.


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## parodi

Re: The pop/rock pronuciation of the English 1st person sing.  "I"

The pronunciation is "Aaaaaay" for a good reason. It is open ended and never really has to come to an end--until you are out of breath or the song stops. You know why German is a terrible vehicle for pop?--it's because of "Ich" (I) . Ich can't be held as a note--it comes to an end as a brutal gutteral sound. If you agree say,aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.


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## fenixpollo

orion said:
			
		

> ... it would be almost impossible to sing with a more Scottish accent than the one the Proclaimers sang sing with.


 Present tense, mate.  Great group, still around.


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## EvilWillow

I've been wondering recently about the topic discussed here. First I'd like to say that I think it's a pity that artists from England adapt their accent to be more "international" when singing. I do not believe that this is necessarily something that comes by itself, automatically, when singing, as some of you pointed out earlier in this thread. I don't deny that in the context of singing some words may come out more "fluently" when pronounced "internationally" (i.e. close to American English), but luckily I know one singer who manages quite successfully, as I think, to sing with a British accent. Unfortunately, to date I only know of that _one_ singer only, Sophie Ellis Bextor. To me it sounds elegant and perfectly harmonic when she sings "m*ur*der on the d*a*ncefloor" or "by ch*a*nce". And it doesn't even sound exaggerated to my non-native ears; of course, some people from GB might well consider it somewhat snobby nowadays if it's "too close to RP"...
You can listen to short samples on the internet if you'd like to get an impression of her accent while singing.  How do you perceive her singing? Do you think it would be "presentable" to a larger, i.e. international, audience?


PS: Feel free to correct any mistakes or give stylistic advice, by PM if you prefer.


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## Arrius

Because of the cinema and Jazz etc., American accents have, in English-speaking countries long been associated with glamour and modernity. Besides "artistes" singing popular songs in this way, British advertisers often find it to their advantage to use American voices, whether singing or not, although their product may have nothing whatever to do with things transatlantic.
On a different point but related: on a visit to Denmark, I found that the Danish language, unpleasant to my unaccustomed ears in comparison with the melodious Swedish and Norwegian, seemed to lose its jarring glottal stops in song and come to resemble these other Scandinavian tongues. Was this impression correct, i.e. is it difficult to tell the three sister languages apart immediately when sung?


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## avok

Arrius said:


> On a different point but related: on a visit to Denmark, I found that the Danish language, unpleasant to my unaccustomed ears in comparison with the melodious Swedish and Norwegian, seemed to lose its jarring glottal stops in song and come to resemble these other Scandinavian tongues. Was this impression correct, i.e. is it difficult to tell the three sister languages apart immediately when sung?


 
Yes Arrius that's true, Danes fully pronounce the words when they sing and it is not just the glottal stops they avoid but they even pronounce the last letters of almost all words and their language becomes suddenly swedish ( or norwegian ) when they sing ! but, of course, a native speaker should reply...

About the singing accent,

When Brits sing their accent still remains "non-rhotic" so it is not all like british singers adopt american accent when they sing but it is rather like when they sing they have some "americanism" in their accent. 


But there are still some british features that british singers remain: 


Words like "thought, talk, daughter" still have "o:" instead of "a:", and also as I mentioned above, the accent is still non-rhotic, 

But the vice versa is also true I mean (some) American singers loose also their american features when they sing, for instance Madonna almost always drop her r's when she sings as in "like a vi:gin" and many other American singers pronounce words like "forever" as "foreva" etc. and again when Americans speak they pronounce "thought" almost like "tha:t" but when they sing the same word becomes more like the british one "tho:t" maybe a little bit more open. 

I think there is an international English accent that both american and british singers adopt but of course it is more american than british


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## almostfreebird

Aside from lyrics, when I listen to Bjork singing it conjures up Middle English.


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## avok

almostfreebird said:


> Aside from lyrics, when I listen to Bjork singing it conjures up Middle English.


 
Hmm, but she is from Iceland that may be the reason


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## almostfreebird

avok said:


> Hmm, but she is from Iceland that may be the reason


 
When I listen to Nico(velvet underground)singing, it conjures up Modern Europe.


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## Arrius

Thank you, Avok, for your comprehensive explanation. So, in Copenhagen singing is,indeed, an instant cure for what appears to some foreigners to be a throat ailment, (just joking, in fact I can read fairly easily and with not a little pleasure the poetry of Hans Christian Andersen in the original and like it enough to have translated some successfully into English - though I wouldn't understand a word of it if it were read aloud to me by a native). On the matter of what I would call "mid-Atlantic" English I would refer those interested and have some Spanish as well as English to the partially relevant thread on "inglés neutral sin acentos ni dejes" also in Cultural Discussions. Some members may not know the rare word "rhotic" in Avok's posting. It means pronouncing the R after vowels in all positions, including words like "first" and "world".RP(Received Pronunciation) speakers in Britain do not distinguish between the words "father" and "farther" and hence are non-rhotic, though this has never led to any confusion in my experience. In many parts of the UK, however, they do make the difference. The word "rhotic" must come from the Greek for the letter R. Incidentally, I feel sure that Rs are not the only thing that Madonna drops.


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## don maico

Back in the sixties Brit bands tried to copy the american sound becaue they though it cool . A stuffy middle England accent would not have sounded right singing a version of a Chuck Berry, Muddy Watters, BB  King or Howlin Wolf . In time they beagn to write their own songs and sent many of them across the Atlantic. Some  maintained an Americanised(Rolling Stones ,Beatles) accent , whilst others such as the Kinks, Pink Floyd ,Genesis and Yes, sang ,mostly,with an English accent.
Now days ,I believe, the vast majority of Brit Pop bands sing in English accents . To copy an American would seem very uncool and phoney.


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## elpoderoso

don maico said:


> Back in the sixties Brit bands tried to copy the american sound becaue they though it cool . A stuffy middle England accent would not have sounded right singing a version of a Chuck Berry, Muddy Watters, BB King or Howlin Wolf . In time they beagn to write their own songs and sent many of them across the Atlantic. Some maintained an Americanised(Rolling Stones ,Beatles) accent , whilst others such as the Kinks, Pink Floyd ,Genesis and Yes, sang ,mostly,with an English accent.
> Now days ,I believe, the vast majority of Brit Pop bands sing in English accents . To copy an American would seem very uncool and phoney.


Brit pop? I agree a lot of newer bands sing with their distinctive regional accents. A few bands such as The Futureheads and Maximo Park sing in their local north east accent (Sunderland and Newcastle respectively). I can't think of any examples of a northeast English accent in British music prior to this, with the possible exception of Lindisfarne and Gazza (which I don't count as music )


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## chics

Hello.

Commertial reasons? Not as much, but quite a lot of singers from ths centre and north of Spain sing with a southern or even American accent. 
They pronounce the *th* sound as *s* only singing, but not during interview, etc. In order to look more "latino"?

And why singers around the world sing in English? Isn't all of this the same thing?


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