# Pronunciation: the surname "Deulofeu"



## LoveVanPersie

How is the surname _Deulofeu _(as in _Gerard Deulofeu _and _Alexandre Deulofeu_) pronounced in Standard Catalan/Central Catalan?
DCVB says it's from "Déu lo féu". So the main question is whether the first _e_ of _Deulofeu_ is reduced to a schwa /ə/? That is, is it pronounced /ˌdewluˈfew/ or /dəwluˈfew/ or both are valid?
A word with similar spelling _déu-vos-guard_ is transcribed as /ˌdew.βuzˈɡwart/ (central) on Wiktionary. But I think I have heard the first syllable of _Deulofeu_ be pronounced /dəw/ on some YouTube videos?


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## Dymn

I personally pronounce it /d*ə*wluf*ɛ*w/, so not only with a reduced vowel but also changing the quality of the last vowel to an open e.

The reason for this change is that we don't think about the etymology and -_eu_ (_hereu, europeu, museu_) is more often pronounced with an open e than with a closed one.

At any rate it would come across as weird to me if I heard the first syllable pronounced as /dew/.



LoveVanPersie said:


> But I think I have heard the first syllable of _Deulofeu_ be pronounced /dəw/ on some YouTube videos?


Most likely yes.



LoveVanPersie said:


> A word with similar spelling _déu-vos-guard_ is transcribed as /ˌdew.βuzˈɡwart/ (central) on Wiktionary.


_Déu vos guard_ on the other hand is indeed pronounced without reducing the vowel, because each of its elements are clear to the speaker when read out loud.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thanks for your help Dymn! 
And by the way, are the stressed open/close vowels of _Bartomeu_ /-ew/, _Bernabeu_ /-ew/, _Romeu_ /-ɛw/ transcribed correctly on Wiktionary?
What about _Andorra_ /o/ (_Longman Pronunciation Dictionary_ transcribes its Catalan pron. as /ɔ/), _Granollers _(surname and place name) /e/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /ɛ/) and _Lleida_ /ɛ/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /e/) on Wikipedia?


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## Dymn

LoveVanPersie said:


> _Bartomeu_ /-ew/


This _should _be /e/ (I learned it some weeks ago), but many people, me included, pronounce /ɛ/.



LoveVanPersie said:


> _Bernabeu_ /-ew/


Hard to say, because although it is a Catalan surname, it's mostly tied to Real Madrid's stadium, and hence pronounced the Spanish way (the bearer of the surname was from Albacete and spoke no Catalan, so it's no big deal). Anyway although journalists in TV3 often Catalanize it with /ɛ/, it should be /e/ because it comes from _Bernabé _which is undoubtedly pronounced with the close-mid vowel.



LoveVanPersie said:


> _Romeu_ /-ɛw/


Yes, /ɛ/. No doubt here.



LoveVanPersie said:


> _Andorra_ /o/ (_Longman Pronunciation Dictionary_ transcribes its Catalan pron. as /ɔ/)


Andorrans pronounce /ɔ/. In Catalonia (or most of it?), we say /o/.



LoveVanPersie said:


> _Granollers _(surname and place name) /e/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /ɛ/) and _Lleida_ /ɛ/ (DCVB says the local pron. is /e/)


I didn't know those had different local pronunciations, but anyway I've always said and heard it /e/ for both cases.

Another case of differing open-closed _e_ variations between locals and outsiders is _Berga. _Locals say _B/e/rga_. Most people outside of town on the other hand pronounce _B/ɛ/rga_.


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## LoveVanPersie

Thank you again for your patient answers!


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## tenienteramires

The right pronunciation in central Catalan is [*ˌdewɫuˈfew*] as if it was written "Déu lo feu". The reason for that is that it's a compound surname and almost all compound words in Catalan are pronounced with two accents.

Also in central Catalan they tend to pronounce all -eu endings like [-ɛw] even in cases when the traditional pronunciation is [-ew]. In Deulofeu it's [-ew]: it's [ˌdewɫuˈfew], and *not* [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw] or [dəwɫuˈfɛw], which are non-standard pronunciations. It's also this diphthong in the name Bartomeu: [bəɾtuˈmew] (and not [bəɾtuˈmɛw]).


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## Dymn

tenienteramires said:


> In Deulofeu it's [-ew]: it's [ˌdewɫuˈfew], and *not* [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw] or [dəwɫuˈfɛw], which are non-standard pronunciations.


What does non-standard mean? I would find it weird if someone pronounced /d*e*wluf*e*w/ while speaking Central Catalan. We're just reinterpreting it as a single word. I'm not losing any sleep over it.


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## tenienteramires

Dymn said:


> What does non-standard mean? I would find it weird if someone pronounced /d*e*wluf*e*w/ while speaking Central Catalan. We're just reinterpreting it as a single word. I'm not losing any sleep over it.



Potser "estàndard" no és la paraula més apropiada. És perfectament vàlid de pronunciar [dəwɫuˈfɛw] o [dəwɫuˈfew], però tradicionalment en català fem les paraules compostes amb doble accentuació, més encara quan és un compost tan evident. Jo, en la meua parla (occidental) diria [ˌdewɫoˈfew].


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## LoveVanPersie

Dymn said:


> Hard to say, because although it is a Catalan surname, it's mostly tied to Real Madrid's stadium, and hence pronounced the Spanish way (the bearer of the surname was from Albacete and spoke no Catalan, so it's no big deal).


Do Catalan-speaking people always pronounce Spanish names in Spanish way even in Catalan conversation and, even if the bearers of Spanish names speak Catalan?


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## Dymn

LoveVanPersie said:


> Do Catalan-speaking people always pronounce Spanish names in Spanish way even in Catalan conversation and, even if the bearers of Spanish names speak Catalan?


Mostly yes, and increasingly so. For example during the Franco dictatorship the usual way to pronounce his surname was /ˈfɾaŋku/ (in Central Catalan), now it's /ˈfɾaŋko/. Some traits are likelier to be Catalanized than others. While adapting /θ/ to /s/ still can be found from time to time, /x/ to /k/ sounds so outlandish to many of us, and I've personally never heard it. I personally pronounce it the Spanish way just with minor phonetical differences, e.g. _Luis Enrique_ I voice the _s_ to /z/, which I don't do while speaking Spanish.



LoveVanPersie said:


> What if the name is both Catalan and Spanish, like _Víctor _of _Víctor Sánchez_?


It's irrelevant in this case because even if _Víctor _is also a Catalan name nobody pronounces it /ˈbikt*u*ɾ/. Same with _Àlex_, nobody says /ˈal*ə*ks/. You'll notice not only Spanish words are pronounced the Spanish way. For example Londres and Berlín you'll rarely if ever hear it with the schwa (at least in day-to-day conversation, not by journalists). _Pisa, risotto, lasagna..._ those are pronounced with /s/ even if it's /z/ in Italian which is what would make sense in Catalan too.


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## tenienteramires

Dymn said:


> /x/ to /k/ sounds so outlandish to many of us, and I've personally never heard it.



Some words that we use daily in colloquial Catalan are, in fact, Spanish words pronounced as if they were Catalan ones, like 'maco' or 'quefe', which are actually 'majo' and 'jefe'. 

Nowadays, apart from those words, hardly nobody pronounces Spanish J like [k], only the elder speakers, especially those few who are monolingual or those who don't speak very well Spanish, like my grandmother.


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## LoveVanPersie

The Catalan IPA of Spanish names on Wikipedia such as _López_ and _Roberto _once confused me because on some YouTube videos I heard them pronounced in Spanish way.
Thank you both for confirming the fact and letting me know more!


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## LoveVanPersie

Hmm... Sorry to bother you again...


Dymn said:


> I personally pronounce it /d*ə*wluf*ɛ*w/, so not only with a reduced vowel but also changing the quality of the last vowel to an open e.
> 
> The reason for this change is that we don't think about the etymology and -_eu_ (_hereu, europeu, museu_) is more often pronounced with an open e than with a closed one.
> 
> At any rate it would come across as weird to me if I heard the first syllable pronounced as /dew/.
> 
> 
> Most likely yes.
> 
> 
> _Déu vos guard_ on the other hand is indeed pronounced without reducing the vowel, because each of its elements are clear to the speaker when read out loud.





Dymn said:


> I would find it weird if someone pronounced /d*e*wluf*e*w/ while speaking Central Catalan.


Actually, I think I have heard the first _e_ reduced and unreduced, even during the same person's speech, like in the video _Les matemàtiques de la història: hi ha fórmules per predir el futur?_ at 0:09 and 0:44... (Did I mishear?)
Edit: I'm not sure which pronunciation is used more...


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## Bevj

Please, the topic of this thread is * la pronunciació de Deulofeu.*
Questions about _Sant, Franco_ and other names are way off-topic and should be discussed elsewhere.
Thank you.


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## samarkanda

tenienteramires said:


> Potser "estàndard" no és la paraula més apropiada. És perfectament vàlid de pronunciar [dəwɫuˈfɛw] o [dəwɫuˈfew], però tradicionalment en català fem les paraules compostes amb doble accentuació, més encara quan és un compost tan evident. Jo, en la meua parla (occidental) diria [ˌdewɫoˈfew].


Jo, que parlo oriental (barceloní), faig el mateix amb la primera e (tancada) i obro la segona, com has assenyalat més amunt: [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw] 
Això de fer perdre una de les tòniques als mots compostos em penso que sol ser per ultracorrecció, se sent força sovint en mots com tres-cents o set-cents (en canvi, ningú no canvia la primera o de Bonanova).


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## LoveVanPersie

samarkanda said:


> Jo, que parlo oriental (barceloní), faig el mateix amb la primera e (tancada) i obro la segona, com has assenyalat més amunt: [ˌdewɫuˈfɛw]
> Això de fer perdre una de les tòniques als mots compostos em penso que sol ser per ultracorrecció, se sent força sovint en mots com tres-cents o set-cents (en canvi, ningú no canvia la primera o de Bonanova).


Moltes gràcies!


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