# Pronunciation: will, we'll



## Argentum

I wonder if native speakers are able to differentiate between these two sounds when hearing a conversation.

For example:
Question: Hey, how your work at the Airport is going?
Answer: Not sure, *we'll*/*will* see... ask me tomorrow.

I know that surely it hasn't to be correct to say *will see* without the pronoun, but despite that, I would like to know if, in some situation, there is a need to differenciate between them both, and if it's possible to hear a difference in the sound of each of them for some well trained hearing.

Thanks in advance.


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## angel101

Argentum said:
			
		

> For example:
> 
> Hey, how's (how is) your work at the airport is going?


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## Neever

Hi Argentum,

I would definitely be able to tell the difference, but in spoken English you would get as much from the context as the pronounciation.  Like you said "not sure, will see..ask me.." is not correct.  We'll is just the contracted version of we will.  Does that answer your question?


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## maxiogee

I would have difficulty recalling anyone speaking (here in Ireland, at any rate) and omitting the 'I' of an 'I will …' construction.
If I heard "Not sure, w?ll see... ask me tomorrow" I'd know for a certainty that it was "we'll", if for no other reason than the contraction for an "I will see" would be "I'll see".
My ears are attuned to pick up rather rapidly on the pronunciations I am likely to come across here in Ireland of either an "e" or an "i". No Irish accent I can think of would cause me to confuse "we'll" and "will" in any context, not just the one given. I think the same is likely to apply to most English speakers in respect of their own regions.


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## Le Pamplemousse

As far as I know, there's never a need to differentiate.  I pronounce "we'll" and "will" the same way.  If I use a personal pronoun before "will", I always contract it (e.g. "he'll (hill)", "they'll (thell)", "you'll (yul)") so there probably wouldn't be a time when I'd need to differentiate.


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## majlo

Argentum said:
			
		

> I wonder if native speakers are able to differentiate between these two sounds when hearing a conversation.



_Will _is pronounced with short i in the middle, while _we'll _has a long i in the middle. Am I right?


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## emma42

Pronunciation - "We'll" = wheel
                      "Will" = [hill, bill, fill - short "i"]

You will hear both pronunciations for "We'll".


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## majlo

Le Pamplemousse said:
			
		

> "they'll (thell)"



Le Pamplemousse, don't you pronounce it with a diphthong in the middle? (theill)


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## emma42

It is pronounced both ways, depending on regional variation. I am not sure what the standard English version is, but I would bet there are a couple of options. It is not something for a native or a non native speaker to worry about.


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## Le Pamplemousse

majlo said:
			
		

> Le Pamplemousse, don't you pronounce it with a diphthong in the middle? (theill)



Nope.  It's probably a regional thing, but I don't hear "wheel" or "theill" (in Southern Wisconsin).


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## Argentum

wow, those were really quick answers indeed, thanks you all for your corrections and answers. Very interesting to read about this.


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## maxiogee

I'm confused here.

It appears that people are assuming that the "will see" option is missing a "we". I would have to query that. In my experience "we'll see" is something said in response to a question - when either (a) the respondant is speaking for a group of people, or - and I think this case doesn't fit this situation - the questioner is part of the process…

Child: "Mammy, can we go to the zoo next week?"
Mammy: "I don't know, we'll see"
(you and I will discuss this at some future time - maybe)

In this case A asks B a question to which only B can be involved in the 'seeing' — it must be an "I'll see" answer, as there is no reference to a "we", A doesn't work at the airport, that's obvious.


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## Argentum

Yes, it wasn't a good example, may be another person could find a better one, *"will see".  

*Despite the grammar improperness of the "will see", my doubt was its pronunciation merely, sorry for the bad example I gave.


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## french4beth

If you'd like to hear some prononciations, here's a great web site - you type in the word or phrase, and then pick which language you'd like to hear it in (German, French, Spanish, or English): http://public.research.att.com/~ttsweb/tts/demo.php


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## emma42

Thanks, french4beth, that is a superb link.


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## A90Six

emma42 said:
			
		

> Thanks, french4beth, that is a superb link.


I have been told by Spanish friends of mine that they find it almost impossible to hear the difference between the English (BE at least) short and long "i" sound, I assume because they don't have the short sound in Spanish.

Sheep and ship sound the same to them and they tend to pronounce them with the long i sound. The sound of the letter "i" in Spanish is "ee".

It is almost impossible to explain the sound on a forum as the sound cannot be heard. To say one rhymes with *hill* or *pill* makes no difference if they pronounce thos words as *heel* and *peel* anyway.

*Will see* is incorrect, but I can understand (because of pronunciation problems) why the error is made.


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## Kelly B

Even a native could not tell the difference in my own pronunciations of we'll and will - there is no difference. The funny thing is that here in the north we use the short vowel for both; my relatives in the south use the long vowel for both. You determine the one you are hearing from the context.


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## Yôn

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Even a native could not tell the difference in my own pronunciations of we'll and will - there is no difference. The funny thing is that here in the north we use the short vowel for both; my relatives in the south use the long vowel for both. You determine the one you are hearing from the context.




What part of the north are you from?  I pronounce WE'LL as "weel".  I pronounce WILL as "will".  Long E for the first, short I for the second.

As for this pronoun thing: I find no problem with omitting the pronoun.  It sounds quite natural to my ears.  I admit it's probably not proper, but to say it's not done at all... well, you know.

As long as someone was pronouncing these words like I would, I would be able to tell them apart.  But even if they pronounced the two the exact same, I would have no difficulty whatsoever in telling them apart given the contexts of the sentence.



Jon


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## Brioche

Kelly B said:
			
		

> Even a native could not tell the difference in my own pronunciations of we'll and will - there is no difference. The funny thing is that here in the north we use the short vowel for both; my relatives in the south use the long vowel for both. You determine the one you are hearing from the context.


 
In the versions of English spoken in Australia and New Zealand, 
the sounds of _we'll_ and _will_ are distinctly different. /i:/ v /i/

Most Australians don't aspirate wh, so _we'll _and _wheel_ sound the same, but _wheel_ and _will _would never be confused - anymore than _peal _and _pill._


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## majlo

Brioche said:
			
		

> Most Australians don't aspirate wh,



Do you aspirate /w/ sound at all?


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## Brioche

majlo said:
			
		

> Do you aspirate /w/ sound at all?


 
I don't understand the question.

In some forms of English the *wh* is pronouced exactly the same as *w*,
so _world_ and _whirled_  and _weather_ and _whether_ are homophones.

In other forms the wh is pronounced with a puff of air - aspirated = /hw/
and thus _whirled_ is different from _world, _and _weather_ different from _whether._


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## Yôn

Brioche said:
			
		

> I don't understand the question.
> 
> In some forms of English the *wh* is pronouced exactly the same as *w*,
> so _world_ and _whirled_  and _weather_ and _whether_ are homophones.
> 
> In other forms the wh is pronounced with a puff of air - aspirated = /hw/
> and thus _whirled_ is different from _world, _and _weather_ different from _whether._



In fact, I'd say this can even vary from person to person.


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## majlo

Brioche said:
			
		

> In some forms of English the *wh* is pronouced exactly the same as *w*,
> so _world_ and _whirled_  and _weather_ and _whether_ are homophones.


I know, Brioche. But I'm learning RP in which only voiceless plosives are aspirated and that's why aspirating the /w/ sound seemed really bizarre to me. I'd like to hear aspirated /w/  I tried to pronounce (I understand that in the pairs you've given _world _and _weather _are aspirated, right?) them but barely does it work.


			
				Brioche said:
			
		

> In other forms the wh is pronounced with a puff of air - aspirated = /hw/
> and thus _whirled_ is different from _world, _and _weather_ different from _whether._


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## emma42

Aspirating the "wh" is optional in RP. However, it is rare. I would advise not to do it - sounds strange. In Scottish English it is very very common.

The sound of the aspirated "wh" is just like blowing a little bit.  Like you would blow out a match.


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## majlo

emma42 said:
			
		

> Aspirating the "wh" is optional in RP. However, it is rare. I would advise not to do it - sounds strange. In Scottish English it is very very common.



Never in my whole life have I read a textbook on phonetics which would mention a bit about aspirating the /w/ sound. 


			
				emma42 said:
			
		

> The sound of the aspirated "wh" is just like blowing a little bit.  Like you would blow out a match.



I'll really have to talk to someone from Scotland on Skype hehe  I'd love to hear it say by a native speaker.


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## kertek

> Never in my whole life have I read a textbook on phonetics which would mention a bit about aspirating the /w/ sound.


Phoneticians label this sound a voiceless labio-velar approximant and its symbol is [ʍ]. So it's a voiceless (not "aspirated") version of [w], just like [t] is a voiceless version of [d]. It is not a feature of standard English, but it's still present in many varieties of English including Scottish English, as was previously mentioned.

Here's a link, if you're into your phonetics geekery too...


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## panjandrum

Panj is jumping up and down excitedly waving his arms from our wee corner.

It's not just the Scots who distinguish carefully between w and wh.  The Irish do it too.

So do lots of others, according to the Oxford Companion to the English Language.  It seems that the English have lost the ability, which once they had, to pronounce w and wh distinctively.  Older speakers of RP can still do it.  We and the Scots still do it, and it is widespread in AE and CanE.

OCEL describes wh as the voiceless equivalent of /w/ (confirming kertek).

Back to we'll and will.
As always seems to be the case, the Irish English make a clear distinction between these NORMALLY.

In more casual speech, when the vowels darken and the articulation becomes more clumsy, we'll and will coalesce on something that others might hear as wull.


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## emma42

Yes, "wull", too, in that situation in English English.


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## moirag

I feel that many of the natives here may not be aware of how they really pronounce these words in a sentence. If someone asks you, of course you´ll say that "will" is a short "i" and "we´ll" is pronounced like "wheel". But try putting them in a sentence."First we´re having dinner and then we´ll go to see the show". Probably, like me, you´ll pronounce this very, very similarly to "will", something like "wul". I think this is what argentum is driving at. As an English teacher, it´s something I´m very aware of, and these strong ("wheel") and weak ( "wul") pronunciations are a big problem for many language learners. There isn't that much written on it, as far as I know, it seems to be a very neglected area. There is a book, I think it´s called "Whaddaya know?", or something like that, but it´s American English, I've never come across a book on this in BE, though textbooks have some short sections on specific words.


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## moirag

Ever listened to "White Christmas", a song by Bing Crosby? You´ll hear some good "wh" sounds there, majlo.


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## emma42

moirag, pet, if you read all the posts, you will see that all those pronunication choices have been dealt with.


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## nickditoro

Yôn said:
			
		

> What part of the north are you from? I pronounce WE'LL as "weel". I pronounce WILL as "will". Long E for the first, short I for the second.
> 
> As for this pronoun thing: I find no problem with omitting the pronoun. It sounds quite natural to my ears. I admit it's probably not proper, but to say it's not done at all... well, you know.
> 
> As long as someone was pronouncing these words like I would, I would be able to tell them apart. But even if they pronounced the two the exact same, I would have no difficulty whatsoever in telling them apart given the contexts of the sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> Jon


I'm (often pronounced "um," even on Minnesota Public Radio) living in Minneapolis, where I rarely hear a difference between "we'll" and "will." Since I was an opera singer for many years, I needed to make such distinctions when singing but I doubt I've carried them over into my speech. 

Nick

EDIT: Removed incorrectly placed comma.


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## modus.irrealis

Just to add my two cents, I'm pretty sure I do distinguish "we'll" and "will." My "we'll," though, is never like "wheel" but rhymes with "pull" (I think that's what people mean by "wull"), while I'm pretty sure my "will" rhymes with "hill." I came up with a pair of sentences that I think (although I agree self-analysis is not very accurate) are not the same in normal speech:

I don't know who will visit.
I don't know who we'll visit.



			
				Argentum said:
			
		

> For example:
> Question: Hey, how your work at the Airport is going?
> Answer: Not sure, *we'll*/*will* see... ask me tomorrow.
> 
> I know that surely it hasn't to be correct to say *will see* without the pronoun


About this, I think it depends what you mean by correct . It's pretty common around here at least to drop pronouns (esp. I and you), e.g. "Can do.", "Will do.", "See it?", although in this context it does seem unlikely.

Thymios


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## Yôn

nickditoro said:
			
		

> I'm (often pronounced "um," even on Minnesota Public Radio) living in Minneapolis, where I rarely hear a difference between "we'll" and "will." Since I was an opera singer for many years, I needed to make such distinctions when singing but I doubt I've carried them over into my speech.
> 
> Nick
> 
> EDIT: Removed incorrectly placed comma.



I don't listen to enough MPR to have heard that, but I don't believe it happens around here (mid-west of the state).  I do here "AHM" for I'M occasionally, but I can remember one person from work who pronounces it "EYEM" very clearly and nasaly.

So, how do you talk down there?  Is it closer or farther from those people on that movie North Country?  I thought their accents were down-right ridiculous.




Jon


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## nickditoro

Yôn said:
			
		

> I don't listen to enough MPR to have heard that, but I don't believe it happens around here (mid-west of the state). I do here "AHM" for I'M occasionally, but I can remember one person from work who pronounces it "EYEM" very clearly and nasaly.
> 
> So, how do you talk down there? Is it closer or farther from those people on that movie North Country? I thought their accents were down-right ridiculous.
> 
> Jon


Jon, it's a mixed bag here. I've noticed that folks originally from around St. Cloud sound a bit like the cast from "Fargo" (I haven't seen "North Country" -- should I?  ). But overall, certain vowels that on the East Coast are rather distinct (for example in Mary, marry, merry) are one and the same here. I think the strangest thing for me to get used to (I moved here from NYC) is hearing the first, normally unstressed syllable in a mutli-syllabic word become stressed, like PREE-cipitation (for precipitation), or LOS Angeles, MAN-hattan, LAS Vegas. Perhaps these are carry-overs from Scandanavian tongues. 

Nick


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## brian

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> I don't know who will visit.
> I don't know who we'll visit.



These are excellent examples.  As a southern AE speakers, _in theory_, I would say that "will" is pronounced with a short _i_, and "we'll" long (like "wheel".)  However, in fast-paced conversation, either of these can change.

For example, "we'll" often sounds midway between "wool" and "will" (short _i_).  This makes sense since it takes the mouth and tongue much more time and energy (if you count the number of long _i_'s shortned to short _i_'s in regular speech, it adds up) to fully pronounce long vowels.  This leads to slurs and drawls which are regional/dialectical/colloquial.

As for "will," that, too, sometimes comes out like "wool," but _never_ like "wheel."

If I were speaking the above examples, the first sentence would contract in speech to "who'll," with pronounciation "HOO-ull" (with that second syllable rhyming with "wool").

In this second sentence, I would probably pronounce "we'll" like "wool."

The words preceding and following "will"/"we'll" really impact the pronunciation.  It's all about where your tongue is and will be positioned so as to subconsciously minimize the amount of time and energy it takes to say the sentence.

Amazing how the brain works.

Brian


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## Yôn

nickditoro said:
			
		

> Jon, it's a mixed bag here. I've noticed that folks originally from around St. Cloud sound a bit like the cast from "Fargo" (I haven't seen "North Country" -- should I?  ). But overall, certain vowels that on the East Coast are rather distinct (for example in Mary, marry, merry) are one and the same here. I think the strangest thing for me to get used to (I moved here from NYC) is hearing the first, normally unstressed syllable in a mutli-syllabic word become stressed, like PREE-cipitation (for precipitation), or LOS Angeles, MAN-hattan, LAS Vegas. Perhaps these are carry-overs from Scandanavian tongues.
> 
> Nick



I've never heard any of those words stressed like that. I did have a teacher once who would always say "video TAPE"... he also wouldn't buy anything that wasn't sold at Fleet Farm .

_EDIT:I'm not sure what you mean with mary/merry_ I live about an hour and 1/2 north of St. Cloud. I do know that many people around here don't talk a lot with that North Country accent, except for the police--they always sound that way. I had a Chemistry teacher with that real "Minnesotan" accent, but you just don't see it often where I'm from.

I've never seen Fargo, but my brother told me that the accents there were worse than those in North Country. I would recommend the movie, if only to hear the accents.

I will listen more closely to Paul Douglas next time he says "precipitation."  I know I put that stress on the A.




Jon

_Edit: Okay, so I just checked a dictionary for MERRY, and it turns out it's supposed to be pronounced with a short E sound and not a long A. I do not think I've ever heard this word pronounced with a short E in my life. I just cannot imagine Santa Claus saying "Ho ho ho, mErry Christmas.*" The Santas I've all heard say "mArry Christmas.*"

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* The spelling's been toyed with
here in order to show pronunciation._


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## Brioche

majlo said:
			
		

> Never in my whole life have I read a textbook on phonetics which would mention a bit about aspirating the /w/ sound.


 
Quote from Daniel Jones "English Pronouncing Dictionary" (1967)
_The pronuciation with /hw/ in the case of many words having 'wh' in the spelling, e.g. which, white, when, etc., must be regarded as increasingly rare among RP speakers. ...... it may still be heard ..... especially in more formal styles of speech._


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## nickditoro

Yôn said:
			
		

> I've never heard any of those words stressed like that. I did have a teacher once who would always say "video TAPE"... he also wouldn't buy anything that wasn't sold at Fleet Farm .
> 
> _EDIT:I'm not sure what you mean with mary/merry_ I live about an hour and 1/2 north of St. Cloud. I do know that many people around here don't talk a lot with that North Country accent, except for the police--they always sound that way. I had a Chemistry teacher with that real "Minnesotan" accent, but you just don't see it often where I'm from.
> 
> I've never seen Fargo, but my brother told me that the accents there were worse than those in North Country. I would recommend the movie, if only to hear the accents.
> 
> I will listen more closely to Paul Douglas next time he says "precipitation." I know I put that stress on the A.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jon
> 
> _Edit: Okay, so I just checked a dictionary for MERRY, and it turns out it's supposed to be pronounced with a short E sound and not a long A. I do not think I've ever heard this word pronounced with a short E in my life. I just cannot imagine Santa Claus saying "Ho ho ho, mErry Christmas.*" The Santas I've all heard say "mArry Christmas.*"_
> 
> _----------_
> _* The spelling's been toyed with_
> _here in order to show pronunciation._


Not Paul; he's from back east somewhere. Try Kare-11 and Belinda Jensen.

Nick


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## DiegoAlfonsoO

@Argentum, I think I've found another (dumb) example where a distinction has to be done. There is a song ("One day" by Asaf Avidan & The Mojos) that says "One day, baby, we'll be old". Or are they referring to their baby? "One day Baby will be old".

(Please feel free to correct any grammar or vocabulary mistakes I've made)


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## natkretep

I agree with Brioche that I'd always distinguish between _we'll_ and _will_, and _we'll_ sounds like _wheel_ to me.

For the song, _baby_ is a term of endearment for your lover, and surely that should be _we'll_.


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## abluter

In north London, UK, "will" is often pronounced "wiw", and a region of N.London called Mill Hill becomes "Miwiw". Hilarious!
"Will you?" becomes "Wiwyer?" Combine that with the glottal stops frequent in the same part of London (also Glasgow in Scotland, incidentally) and you've got a dialect completely impenetrable to the rest of humanity.


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## dojibear

"We'll" uses the vowel /i/, which is used in Spanish and other languages.
"Will" uses the vowel /ɪ/, which is used in English (but not in Spanish).

In Engish the "ɪ/i" difference is common, and distinguishes very many word-pairs: hit/heat, bit/beat, hill/heal, etc.

The US has many fluent Spanish speakers who speak imperfect English. Traditionally they use /i/ when they should use /ɪ/.
Although that isn't perfect, it is almost always understood. And who cares about being perfect, if we're just talking?

For example, I might say: "I will get it later". But a Spanish-accented speaker says "I weel get eet later."




DiegoAlfonsoO said:


> There is a song ("One day" by Asaf Avidan & The Mojos) that says "One day, baby, we'll be old". Or are they referring to their baby? "One day Baby will be old".


Those are two different correct written sentences. But I checked the song lyrics. It is "we'll", not "will". 

lyrics one day asaf avidan & the mojos - Google Search


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## kentix

It's very hard to hear a difference in two sounds when there is no difference in your own language or one of the two doesn't even exist. But we can easily hear the difference since we've been practicing hearing and saying those separate sounds since we were babies. It's one of the hardest parts about learning to speak and listen in a different language. How can you pick the correct option when you can't even hear two options?


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## dojibear

Hearing/speaking training starts very young. One of an American child's first phrases is "gimme" (give me!),
which has both vowel sounds in it: /gɪmi/. So an American child that only know a few words already knows that these 2 vowel sounds are different.


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