# RASI=SLAVS



## Borin3

Etruscans who inhabited Italian Peninsular called themselves *Rass*ena. Medieval Serbian duchy on Balkans was called *Rash*ka with it's capital at that time called *Ras. *Russians also have this same root in their name as well as name of their country- *Ras*iya. Interesting Duchy of Rashka was called Rascia in both Latin and English! In Habzburg Empire the south area of Panonian Basin was also called *Ras*cia in Latin which was a term to denote Serbs in Habzburg Empire. We can find these in a triangle from Balkans to Italy in the south and all the way down north! What else is there? Latinized term for Rassenas which is Etrusci. *ET *is a Latin corruption! This corruption sounds almost the same as Greek corruption for Thracians which is Thraikes, doesn't it? Furthermore Latins called them Thraci! In Latin these two corruptions are even closer to each other. Etrusci is almost the same as Thraci!

Herodotus "the father of history" about Thracians: "_The people of Thracians has the biggest population, immediately after Hindus. According to my opinion if one person or one mind ruled them all, they would be unbeatable. They have many names, according to different regions but their customs/traditions are all the same." _
How could Thraikes have such a huge population on such a narrow area? Did Herodotus actually mean something else, did he use this term to denote one huge family which is today known as Slavs. *RAS* is a root in word such as *ras*a-race. Race could easily have meant just people and could have denoted people who thought themselves the family or simply said "all of those who belonged to the same race" just like Slav means "all those who speak the same language".

What did Herodotus say about Thracian burial traditions?
_The funerals of their rich people go like this: for three days the corpse is still intact, and bringing any kind of offerings/sacrifises they mourn for the dead one, later they eat and drink(feast), and then they either burn the dead or bury him into a grave, after which they start all kinds of competitions, where they also give the prizes for the winners in each competition area. There, those are the funerals among them! _
The last sentence is like his personal seal which means he saw those funerals and he is 100% sure.

Apostle Boniface about 1200 years later talking about Slavs:
_Slavs are the worst and most disgusting of all. They live an elderly life, farming the land all together, sacrificing animals and captives to their Gods, burning the dead, while they feast(eat and drink) and compete in war games. Women were burnt on the stakes of their husbands._

Although Apostle Boniface seems to have hated Slavs and was very subjective his testimony concerning burials is almost the same as that Herodotus left us about Thracians.

At the end in north-east Italy there is a dialect of Slovene, called Resian in a valley called Resia!

RAS, a Slav in antiquity ?


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## berndf

You are certainly aware that the _a-_like sound in Russian Росси́я is but an allophone of /o/ in unstressed syllables and that the would does not contain an /a/. The origin is Old Russian РꙊсь (modern spelling would be Рyсь) and that was originally not a Slavic endonym but referred to Scandinavian invaders.


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## rushalaim

Borin3 said:


> Russians also have this same root in their name as well as name of their country- *Ras*iya


English _"R*u*ssia"_ and Russians also pronounced [r*u*s'], but there was diphthong inside Greek ρ*ω*ς [r*aw*s]. Agree with *berndf*, _"rus"_ is Swedish. Finns are calling now Swedes as [r*uo*tsi], Russian transcription is *[руци] (*_"to row on a boat"_?)


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## Maroseika

Borin3 said:


> RAS, a Slav in antiquity ?


Moreover, 'Etruski' spelled in Russian may be interpreted as "eto russki", which means in Russian "this is Russians". This extremely amazing fact is reckoned by Russian "alternative etymologists" the undisputable proof that Etruskans were Slavs.


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## CyrusSH

The earliest known people in the East of Europe with a similar name were the *Roxs-Alani* (Roxolani) who were an Iranian-speaking people.


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## rushalaim

CyrusSH said:


> The earliest known people in the East of Europe with a similar name were the *Roxs-Alani* (Roxolani) who were an Iranian-speaking people.


Don't you think, Roxs-Alani are the Ossetians?
https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/caucasus-y-chromosomes.png


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## berndf

rushalaim said:


> Don't you think, Roxs-Alani are the Ossetians?
> https://mathildasanthropologyblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/12/caucasus-y-chromosomes.png


Some Russian "alternative etymologists", as Maroseika called them have indeed made a connection between _Rus_ and _Roxolani_. But I am afraid going into the details of such pseudo-scientific theories is beyond the scope of this forum (rule #15) and I am afraid we have to leave it at that.


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## Awwal12

I must note that the scientific discussion on "Rus" is not over yet (the sources are just too scarce, and it cannot be helped much), but the Norse version is absolutely predominant among modern scientists (for a good reason), while other theories are marginal, if not outright pseudo-scientific. For one thing, the very word doesn't have any plausible Slavic etymology.



rushalaim said:


> English _"R*u*ssia"_ and Russians also pronounced [r*u*s'], but there was diphthong inside Greek ρ*ω*ς [r*aw*s].


*sigh*
Greek ρ*ω*ς reads (and was read during the last 3 millennia at least) as [ro( : )s] (in IPA). It's the direct source of modern Russian "Россия" (a Hellenized and partly Latinized name which is in use since the XVI century). Россия does read with an [a]-like (IPA!) sound in the first syllable - but only thanks to the fact that Russian simply cannot have [o] in most kinds of unstressed syllables (the feature is called akanye and originated around the XIII century somewhere in the south-eastern principalities). The word has come from the written bookish language, mind you.

East Slavs used the term (IPA!) rusĭ (роусь, in the contemporary orthography) - initially for the very ruling tribe, soon for the whole country ruled by the Rurikids; the final -ĭ was typical for collective nouns meaning peoples (cf. чудь, водь, лопь, жмудь etc.). "Оу" stood for [ u]  in early Cyrillic scripts (just a calque from the Greek orthography). Now this word means "Russia" in historical or figurative meaning. However, it early gave birth to the word "русские" ("ethnic Russians", Rus-ish-es - "those belonging to Rus").


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## Borin3

Maroseika said:


> Moreover, 'Etruski' spelled in Russian may be interpreted as "eto russki", which means in Russian "this is Russians"


As if destiny plays with people.
race | Origin and meaning of race by Online Etymology Dictionary
Read n2


Awwal12 said:


> For one thing, the very word doesn't have any plausible Slavic etymology.


What should we connect _*ras*ti-to grow_ with?_ *Ras*an(two meanings)-of good breed(of good growth)/racial_? When my people say_ *rus*a kosa_ it is the same as if they said _bujna kosa_ and both mean lush hair (hair that has lots of volume, hair that grew well; ending a is there for feminine gender of the adjective which is influenced by the fact that noun _kosa_ is of feminine gender itself so *rus* is a root). *Ras *even as a prefix carries a meaning of spreading, stretching, literally everything that associates to growth..._Rastaviti_-separate/dismantle (don't we separate things by stretching/spreading them; _staviti_ itself means to put), _razliti_(s>z)-leak over (in this case water has spread everywhere, not only leaked)._ Razgranati- grana _is a branch so the meaning is something like "let branches everywhere", for a tree that spreads/stretches it's branches everywhere.

If there are RUS(Rusi-Russians) in the north and RAS(Rašani/Rasi/Srbi-Rascians/Serbs) in the south, and if they belong to the same Slavic family, what is the chance of their Etymologies being different? If Russians have this etymology which comes from Scandinavians, i must consider Serbo-Rascian, to be also from those Scandinavians for Rascian part. What is the chance that Lusatian Sorbs who are Slavs and they exist in the North are not same Serbs that live on Balkans?



rushalaim said:


> Finns are calling now Swedes as [r*uo*tsi], Russian transcription is *[руци] (*_"to row on a boat"_?)


What is the etymological sense of this word? 

First Serbo-German dictionary was named by Germans as  Illyrian-German dictionary? Germans wrote it as "_Deutsch und Illyrisches Wörterbuch"_
German–Serbian dictionary (1791) - Wikipedia
Serbian chancellary in Vienna all the way till 1914. was called Illyrian chancellary?

I'm simply amazed by these facts and it's not only Germans who called Serbs Illyrians, but also French and there are so many sources and so many writers who when talking about Serbs they wrote "Illyrians". 
Illyrians and Thrakians lived on Balkans together, they must have spoken the same language, and they must have been the same people. When Herodotus says second biggest population in world, it can't even be achieved if the whole Balkans are taken in the account. Herodotus "The father of history" is a serious historian, so it's unlikely he is wrong. I'm wondering where such a huge population disappeared


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## berndf

Borin3 said:


> What should we connect _*ras*ti-to grow_ with?_ *Ras*an(two meanings)-of good breed(of good growth)/racial_?



Not with _rus_ and that was the issue at the point of the discussion.
Can you substantiate that the 3 words you mentioned _rasti, rasan _and _rasan_ contain a) _ras- _as a root and b) the same root, i.e. from the same origin and not just accidental homonyms?


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## rushalaim

Borin3 said:


> As if destiny plays with people.
> If there are RUS(Rusi-Russians) in the north and RAS(Rašani/Rasi/Srbi-Rascians/Serbs) in the south, and if they belong to the same Slavic family, what is the chance of their Etymologies being different? If Russians have this etymology which comes from Scandinavians, i must consider Serbo-Rascian, to be also from those Scandinavians for Rascian part. What is the chance that Lusatian Sorbs who are Slavs and they exist in the North are not same Serbs that live on Balkans?


http://www.julepe.org/GenographicProject/Y_MAP_arrow.gif
There was a route of trade from Sweden to Greece by the rivers through Ukraine. That's how "rus" (Swedes) commanded over Slavs. Look at the map! Serbs have almost a half of Swedes blood!

Maybe, there are just 4 blood types in Europe: South-West French, Polish, Swedish, Finnish.
Polish invaded to the East and became "Russians" (a half-Polish and a half-Finnish).
Swedes invaded to the Greece.


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## Awwal12

rushalaim said:


> http://www.julepe.org/GenographicProject/Y_MAP_arrow.gif
> There was a route of trade from Sweden to Greece by the rivers through Ukraine. That's how "rus" (Swedes) commanded over Slavs. Look at the map! Serbs have almost a half of Swedes blood!


No they don't. It's plain madness to guess at the recent relationships between peoples by looking at distribution of one particular macro-Y-haplogroup. Even if you merely compared distribution of different I-subclades it would be instantly obvious that the patrilineal relationship between the half of Balkanians and the half of Swedes is many millennia old and had originated long before such words as "Swedes" or "Serbs" came into existence (let alone most of their ancestors likely didn't even speak an Indo-European language back then).


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## Borin3

@rushalaim i asked about the etymological sense of word "routsi" and you tell me Serbs have Swedish blood. I have nothing against it, but since you're starting the topic, but my opinion looking at this map would be* counter like*. Balkans is a transitive area, while Scandinavia is isolated. You can see that Balkans has more mix while Sweden doesn't, thus the logical thing would be: "Serbs managed to preserve the same amount of this gene in Balkan conditions, as Swedish in Scandinavian conditions. Looking at the map we have the same amount of the same gene. Why didn't you think about that?



@berndf  If not with Rus why would i need to substantiate these words? You're being very itchy about the vowels. In this case we can also say Deutsch and Diets are just a pure coincidence, but what is the chance?
In Serbian this same word as a noun can be pronounced in two ways as RAS and RAST. Both mean growth. In the first case A is heavily stressed while in second it's not. The verb of all of these is rasti-to grow (inf.) and etymology says from pra-Slavic *orsti. I don't understand why would they reconstruct initial O when it clearly doesn't exist in any Slavic language, maybe just in order to please IE root written as *h3er. If we are reconstructing *orsti-to grow, we can also reconstruct *ors-growth(noun) because TI is an infinitive suffix. Since O doesn't exist as an initial we come to two basic consonants RS. 
I will show you how nouns and verbs work in Serbian, and i'm not sure about other Slavic languages. There are plenty of cases where verb with its infinitive suffix is also a noun without it. Infinitive suffix is generally TI, with a vowel(mostly I) inserted if the word ends with a consonant. Gaziti-to stomp(verb), gaz-stomp(noun); Raditi-to work(verb), rad-work (noun); hodati-to walk(verb), hod-walk(noun); padati-to fall(verb), pad-fall(noun).

The reconstructed *orsti means  to increase/spread/grow. That is why ras even as a prefix means some spreading/increasing/growth. In _Srbo-RaŠani- Serbo-Rascians RAS _is obviously a root. The rule of "jotovanje" is applied when J comes after Z, S, D, T, N, L, K G, H and it combines with them and turns them into Ž, Š, Đ, Ć, NJ, LJ, Č. So Ras+jan=Rašan(Rashan). JAN is a suffix in names, just like in Borjan where there is no change since the root is BOR. 
Concerning word Rasan-of good breed(of good growth). It's simple to explain: ras+an=rasan(masculine gender of an adjective) ras+na(feminine gender), ras+no(neuter gender). Rasan/Rasna is used for people who look good, strong, tall, handsome and also for animals that are of good breed, for example rasan pas-good breed of a dog. The other adjective rasan-racial is pretty much the same.  It can be found in rasne razlike- racial differences (E-grammatical morpheme for plural and that is also what makes adjective and on NE, gramatical root becomes rasn+e, while ras is the core of the word) rasna(ras+na) razlika- racial difference (A is feminine suffix conditioned by the fact that razlika(difference) which is a noun of feminine gender and also the grammatical root is rasn+a the same in the other example).  Mind that there is a word razni(all kinds of) razlika-difference(ras+lik+a(fem suffix)), lik is for face/appearance/shape and thus this literally means all kinds of shapes/appearances/faces which all together combine into one word- difference. Aren't these words also a proof ?
Concerning word rasa-race obviously ras is a root again! We use cases to prove that so:
Nominativ  RAS+A    Rasa
Genitiv      RAS+E    Rase
Dativ        RAS+I     Rasi
Akuzativ    RAS+A    Rasa
Vokativ      RAS+O   Raso
Instrumental RAS+OM  Rasom
Lokativ        RAS+I     Rasi

In it's nominative form A is a grammatical morpheme which makes the word become of feminine gender. All the words have a gender in Serbian even a chair. RAS is obviously the root.

Rasti-to grow is irregular. If the root is ras it would be rasiti since it ends on a consonant, but if root is rast it should be rastiti also since it ends on a consonant. It also shows irregularity when compared with other words that have sti at the end. The root of verbs is for sure found in aorist tense. The ending in aorist tense is oh,ah,ih and deleting these gives us the root. In aorist rastoh so we get rast as a root. The explanation is rastti was the infinitive and then deduct one T to get rasti. I have no clue why it's simply not rastiti but obviously this is also not the same as other irregular words that end on sti, because sti is also infinitive suffix, and very rarely. Other words like mesti-to sweep (in aorist= metoh), plesti-to knit (in aorist pletoh), jesti-to eat (jedoh), krasti-to steal (in aorist kradoh), pasti-to fall (in aorist padoh). So we have a root rast where S is not invented but exists unlike in other examples. Fact: S part is not a part of infinitive ending of STI! That is why when changed through pronouns it still contains S unlike other words with this whole irregular infinitive formation and i'll just show the singular in personal pronouns.
Ja rastem                    I grow
Ti rastesh                    You grow
On/Ona/Ono raste         He/She/It grows​
      Ja jedem                      I eat
      Ti jedesh                      you eat
      On/Ona/Ono jede           He/She/It eats   Mind that this one in infinitive goes as "jesti" where D got lost.

What other word explains the meaning of RAS better than razvoj/razvitak-development (s>z)  ras+vit+ak   ras-growth, vit-vitality/height, ak-derivation suffix. growth+vitality=development!(ras and vit are roots!)
What about k*ras*ta-regrown wound, not exactly scar but similar to it as it's still visible? Zarasti-to heal...
How do you figure out something is a homonym? I'd say that krasta-regrown wound is an accidental homonym with krasti-to steal, if you deny that stealing would lead to being wounded  
one simple root RS which mostly goes with vowel A in between is general term for growth/spreading/stretching as a root gave noun RAST-growth(generally) which is more popular today, RASTI-to grow, another noun RASA-race, RASAN-of good growth and believe it or not plenty other words all connected to growth or size as well as another name for a Serb which is Rasjan(Rashan). Why not? Because i can't think of anything else it can be related to. If you have any solutions you let me know and if they are good i might change my mind.


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## rushalaim

Borin3 said:


> @rushalaim i asked about the etymological sense of word "routsi" and you tell me Serbs have Swedish blood. I have nothing against it, but since you're starting the topic, but my opinion looking at this map would be* counter like*. Balkans is a transitive area, while Scandinavia is isolated. You can see that Balkans has more mix while Sweden doesn't, thus the logical thing would be: "Serbs managed to preserve the same amount of this gene in Balkan conditions, as Swedish in Scandinavian conditions. Looking at the map we have the same amount of the same gene. Why didn't you think about that?


Finns are naming Swedes like [r*uo*tsi] not "routsi". To know the meaning of that word you'd better ask any Finn. Finns are naming modern Russians like [vene] that is "wenes" or "wans".
Russians are half Polish half Finnish. Serbs and Ukrainians are not. Ukrainians are half Swedish half Polish. Serbs are half Swedish with parts.


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## berndf

Borin3 said:


> If not with Rus why would i need to substantiate these words? You're being very itchy about the vowels. In this case we can also say Deutsch and Diets are just a pure coincidence, but what is the chance?


Because you you have nothing to offer than superficial similarity and vivid imagination to offer to link the ethnonymns _Etruscan_ and _Russian_ via South Slavic _ras-_. And that in spite of the attested, not reconstructed, history of Eastern Slavic _Rus_. If not even the vowels match all you have is r and s. The likelihood of chance coincidence is much to high to say you any point at all.


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## Awwal12

Borin3 said:


> In this case we can also say Deutsch and Diets are just a pure coincidence, but what is the chance?


Geman "Deutsch" and Dutch "Diets", if you don't mind, are related through absolutely regular phonetic relationships which can be deduced. It's not blind guessing of any kind.


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## Borin3

Well, when i connect two things with each other, i'm blind guessing..When i post an exact proof from Etruscan language it disappears. 
Can anyone suggest how else can i prove this thing? Use time machine and bring a camera?


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## iezik

The time machines are not yet invented, as far as I know . But the cameras exist. In the area of comparing languages like Serbian, Russian, German, Dutch, Swedish, they recorded phenomena like first Slavic palatalization and many other sound laws. Members of this forum are somehow used to photos taken with such "cameras". If you can express yourself with such notions, we can understand you better.


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## Borin3

I don't have any intention to compete with you in irony and humor. Partly because yours is better, i must admit. As a Slovenian instead of trying to help understand what is Resian dialect of Slovene and Resia doing in North Italy close to Slovenia and why is it called like that , you're being funny.


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## Borin3

rushalaim said:


> Russians are half Polish half Finnish. Serbs and Ukrainians are not. Ukrainians are half Swedish half Polish. Serbs are half Swedish with parts.


I must tell you even though it's been long time. Those Ukranian genes are like that because of Serbs who in 18th century settled by wars exposed Kievan region. Those who were living in Habzburg monarchy, and defended the border from Ottomans were under Hungarian and Austrian pressure and were facing being assimilated. Instead they came to those parts of Russia and created Ukrajina at the same principles as Krajina (which was in Habsburg monarchy bordering Ottomans). These parts were devastated by wars and Serbs fulfilled the blanks. That's it. Not because of some "Rus Germanic Vikings" for sure.


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