# Mein Englisch geht gerade so



## Alan Evangelista

Hallo Leute!

Ich habe den folgenden Satz gelesen:

Ich bin mit Sprachen nicht gut . Mein Englisch geht gerade so, aber mein Französisch versteht in Frankreich keiner.

Mein English geht gerade so = My English is good enough
?

Danke im Voraus!


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## elroy

_My English is decent / passable. _


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## berndf

elroy said:


> _My English is decent / passable. _


That sounds too positive in my ears. It's more like: _My English is barely acceptable._


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## elroy

I don't think "passable" is too positive.  "Decent" might be a touch more positive, but not a whole lot, I don't think.  It was the first translation that came to mind, and I think it's quite fitting in this context: "My English is decent, but my French is a disaster."


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## berndf

No, can't agree at all. In marks "geht gerade so" is a D-, the worst mark possible better then an outright F.


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## elroy

That would make no sense in the original sentence.  "My English is a D-, *but* my French is an F"???  "But" indicates a significant contrast, which is not found between a D- and an F.  For me the emphasis is on "geht" and not on "gerade so."


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## berndf

elroy said:


> "My English is a D-, *but* my French is an F"???




You could paraphrase it like this:
_My English is OK, though only barely, but my French is completely useless._


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## JClaudeK

elroy said:


> My English is decent / passable.
> 
> 
> berndf said:
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds too positive in my ears. It's more like: _My English is barely acceptable._
Click to expand...

For me, too, it's too positive, according to Cambridge Dic:


> passable
> satisfactory but not excellent
> _Mary can speak passable Russian_



Why not _"My English is barely passable." _?

My English is passable. => Mein Englisch geht  so.

IMO:
"geht gerade so" *≠* D*-*
"geht gerade so" *=* D(+)


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## elroy

berndf said:


> _My English is OK, though only barely, but my French is completely useless._


 Yes, that's basically what my translations (especially "passable") express.

"OK, though only barely" ≠ D-

Question for both of you (and anyone else who'd like to weigh in): Which of these two paraphrases would you say is closer to the original:

1.) Mein Englisch ist schlecht, aber mein Französisch ist noch schlechter.
2.) Mein Englisch ist gerade noch akzeptabel, aber mein Französisch ist furchtbar.

I understood is as 2, not 1.


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## berndf

elroy said:


> Yes, that's basically what my translations (especially "passable") express.


C'mon

_Geht so=passable_ is fine. It is _gerade_ that makes all the difference. I agree with @JClaudeK.


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> I understood is as 2, not 1.


I agree.

My suggestion: _"My English is just good enough, but..."_


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## elroy

I understand "gerade" as a modesty marker -- as in, they are being overly cautious not to overrate their English.  I don't think they are trying to emphasize their weaknesses in English.

In English, "passable" and "decent" are at the low end of positive things you can say about language skills: they are positive, but minimally so.  That's exactly how I understand the original.


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## berndf

elroy said:


> I understand "gerade" as a modesty marker -


It means _just about, barely_. Nothing to do with modesty. _Geht so_ alone means what you understood. _Gerade_ emphasises how close it is to the to border of "not enough".


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## elroy

berndf said:


> It means _just about, barely_.


 This is not mutually exclusive with its being a modesty marker.


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## berndf

Maybe. But it just isn't one.


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## L'irlandais

I agree with berndf on this.  It would be illogical to follow on from « I am no good with languages. » by then saying my English is fair enough.  The OP is using a scale from bad to worst. So no, fair enough doesn’t fit the bill. The logical path is bad (with languages) worse (in English) worst (in French). Presumably his Portuguese is passable.  Perhaps.
My English is so-so (or iffy), but nobody in France would understand my French.


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## elroy

*shrug* So we disagree.  Kajjo agrees with me, so I'm not alone in my interpretation.


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## L'irlandais

We will let Alan decide for himself.


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## Kajjo

L'irlandais said:


> The logical path is bad (with languages) worse (in English) worst (in French).


No, I don't think so. He is bad in languages in general. His English is bad, too, but it is just good enough to be useful for him. His French is very bad, so it is almost useless for him.

I agree with Berndf that "gerade" is not a modesty particle, but means something along "just (good enough)".

_Mein English geht so. My English is fair enough.
Mein English geht gerade so. My English ist just good enough (to be useful at all)._


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## elroy

Kajjo said:


> _My English ist just good enough (to be useful at all)._


 Exactly, that's what "passable" means.


Kajjo said:


> "gerade" is not a modesty particle


 Of course it's not a modesty _particle_, and of course I agree about its meaning.  I was talking about what I think could be its _pragmatic_ function.  In any case, whether or not it's a modesty marker, my point is that here it doesn't serve to portray the speaker's English in a _negative_ light, but in a _comparatively positive_ one (compared to their French).


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> here it doesn't serve to portray the speaker's English in a _negative_ light, but in a _comparatively positive_ one (compared to their French)


Yes, compared to his own French.  But no, when compared to his classmates or his own expectations. 

A student with "geht gerade so" marks in English will not be happy. It might suffice to pass the class, but will not feel like an achievement.


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## elroy

Right, I understand.  In this context, they're comparing their English to their French, and they use "aber."  If they were trying to emphasize _how bad_ their English was, I would expect "und," not "aber."


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## Syzygy

The problem I see with translating it as "_decent_" or "_passable_" is that it seems to create a contradiction to the first sentence. Logically, I would expect "_bad but workable_" but not "_bad but passable/decent_".

On the other hand, depending on context, that might be what the speaker wants to express: He takes back being completely bad at languages by saying that his English is actually not that bad but then admits to being useless in any other languages.


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## Kajjo

Syzygy said:


> The problem I see with translating it as "_decent_" or "_passable_" is that it seems to create a contradiction to the first sentence. Logically, I would expect "_bad but workable_" but not "_bad but passable/decent_".


Exactly my thoughts.

I rarely hear "passable", so I haven't developed a good feeling for how good it actually is in US or UK. But it sounds too positive to me. "Decent" surely is a lot too positive. 

"Bad but workable" is what the speaker wants to express about his English.

_My English is bad, but it is good enough to be at least of some usage to me. I will pass the class. _


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## elroy

Syzygy said:


> The problem I see with translating it as "_decent_" or "_passable_" is that it seems to create a contradiction to the first sentence.


 I understand that point, but don't you think that if they were trying to emphasize their English as bad, "aber" would seem contradictory?

Also, I think I would expect "geht *nur* gerade so" if the intention were to emphasize their English as bad.

I don't see much of a significant difference between "passable" and "workable"; I just find "passable" more idiomatic in reference to a language.  As for "decent," as I said it's more positive but not much more.  But yes, "passable" is probably better.


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> I understand that point, but don't you think that if they were trying to emphasize their English as bad, "aber" would seem contradictory?


The "aber" is between English and French, not between language competence in general and English.

The "aber" fits to describe English as workable, but his French skills as useless.


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## Perseas

elroy said:


> In this context, they're comparing their English to their French, and they use "aber."  If they were trying to emphasize _how bad_ their English was, I would expect "und," not "aber."


I agree. Also, if the sentence were e.g. "Ich bin mit Sprachen nicht gut . Mein Englisch geht gerade so, aber mein Französisch ist perfekt." , I don't think that "geht gerade so" would cause any remarkable contradiction in relation to the meaning of the first sentence.


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## Kajjo

Perseas said:


> "Ich bin mit Sprachen nicht gut . Mein Englisch geht gerade so, aber mein Französisch ist perfekt."


Yes, but that wouldn't be idiomatic. "Geht gerade so" is not a subset of "good".

_Ich bin mit Sprachen gut. Mein Englisch ist zwar nur so mittel, aber mein Französisch ist perfekt._


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## Perseas

Kajjo said:


> Yes, but that wouldn't be idiomatic. "Geht gerade so" is not a subset of "good".


Then my assumption was wide of the mark. Thank you.


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## elroy

Kajjo said:


> The "aber" fits to describe English as workable, but his French skills as useless.


 My point exactly.


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## Jektor

Alan Evangelista said:


> Ich bin mit Sprachen nicht gut. Mein Englisch geht gerade so, aber mein Französisch versteht in Frankreich keiner.
> 
> Mein English geht gerade so = My English is good enough?


.
"I am not very good with languages. My English is OK, but in France nobody understands my French".
.


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## JClaudeK

Nehmen wir doch als Referenz das deutsche Bewertungsystem.


> 1._ sehr gut (1)_ Die Note „sehr gut“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung den Anforderungen in besonderem Maße entspricht.
> 2._ gut (2)_ Die Note „gut“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung den Anforderungen voll entspricht.
> 3._ befriedigend (3)_ Die Note „befriedigend“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung im Allgemeinen den Anforderungen entspricht.
> 4._ ausreichend (4)_ Die Note „ausreichend“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung zwar Mängel aufweist, aber im Ganzen den Anforderungen noch entspricht.
> 5. _mangelhaft (5)_ Die Note „mangelhaft“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung den Anforderungen nicht entspricht, jedoch erkennen lässt, dass die notwendigen Grundkenntnisse vorhanden sind und die Mängel in absehbarer Zeit behoben werden können.
> 6. _ungenügend (6)_ Die Note „ungenügend“ soll erteilt werden, wenn die Leistung den Anforderungen nicht entspricht und selbst die Grundkenntnisse so lückenhaft sind, dass die Mängel in absehbarer Zeit nicht behoben werden können.



_geht gerade so_  = ausreichend
_mein Französisch versteht in Frankreich keiner = sehr mangelhaft_ bis _ ungenügend

es geht so_ = (nicht ganz und gar) befriedigend / ist ganz* OK
* _ganz_ ist hier abschwächend

Edit


Jektor said:


> My English is OK


That's too positive, IMO.


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## elroy

JCK, I agree that a 4 is appropriate, but that's significantly better than a D-!

"OK" is not very positive in English.


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## JClaudeK

elroy said:


> but that's significantly better than a D-


I never said that a D- was appropriate. _You_ did so.


JClaudeK said:


> "geht gerade so" *≠* D*-*





elroy said:


> "OK" is not very positive in English.


I see.
In German, it is rather positive.


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## anahiseri

I agree with elroy, my feeling is that "decent, passable" conveys the same degree as "geht gerade so". But that's just a feeling of a (bilingual) native speaker of German with a good command of English (but not native English).


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## elroy

JClaudeK said:


> _You_ did so.


 No, berndf did. 

Aber ich verstehe, wenn dieser Thread etwas unübersichtlich geworden ist.


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## Jektor

Alan Evangelista said:


> "Ich bin mit Sprachen nicht gut. Mein Englisch geht gerade so, aber mein Französisch versteht in Frankreich keiner.





elroy said:


> I understand "gerade" as a modesty marker -- as in, they are being overly cautious not to overrate their English.  I don't think they are trying to emphasize their weaknesses in English.
> 
> In English, "passable" and "decent" are at the low end of positive things you can say about language skills: they are positive, but minimally so.  That's exactly how I understand the original.





elroy said:


> "OK" is not very positive in English.


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## anahiseri

According to a reference document I use for certified (sworn) translation, the equivalent of the German mark *ausreichend (4)* is "adequate".


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## JClaudeK

elroy said:


> I understand "gerade" as a modesty marker





berndf said:


> Nothing to do with modesty.



cf.:


> "gerade"
> drückt Knappheit, Beschränkung aus:    mit Mühe und Not, eben noch





Nur mit einer Negation kann _gerade_ "as a modesty marker" verstanden werden:


> umgangssprachlich ⟨nicht gerade⟩ :                             (= drückt eine gemilderte Verneinung aus)


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## Alan Evangelista

Wie viele bereits gesagt haben, schließe ich aus dem Zusammenhang, dass die Sprecherin genug Englisch kann, um zu kommunizieren, wenn es gebraucht wird. Ob das positiv oder negativ ist, ist mMn subjektiv und bedeutungslos, zu diskutieren.



elroy said:


> I understand "gerade" as a modesty marker



Die Sprecherin macht im vollen Dialog deutlich, dass sie sich nicht für Sprachen, sondern für Sport interessiert.

Es ist mir also klar, dass es in diesem speziellen Dialog nicht so verwendet wird, aber es macht Sinn, dass es so verwendet werden könnte.

off-topic: Ich würde sagen, dass diese lange Diskussion über die Genauigkeit der Bedeutung typisch deutsch ist


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## JClaudeK

anahiseri said:


> the equivalent of the German mark *ausreichend (4)* is "adequate"


Interessant, danke.


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## elroy

anahiseri said:


> "adequate"


 This is not used in the US.  I would say "satisfactory."


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## Perseas

Alan Evangelista said:


> Wie viele bereits gesagt haben, schließe ich aus dem Zusammenhang, dass die Sprecherin genug Englisch kann, um zu kommunizieren, wenn es gebraucht wird. Ob das positiv oder negativ ist, ist mMn subjektiv und bedeutungslos, zu diskutieren.


Hm, es kommt darauf an. Kommunikation von Kommunikation unterscheidet sich. Es gibt z.B. die, wo man alltägliche Ausdrücke und ganz einfache Sätze verstehen und verwenden kann (A1-A2 Stufen), und die, wo man sich fließend ausdrücken kann (C1-C2 Stufen). Ich glaube, das "geht gerade so" deutet auf eine Kompetenz im Englischen, die den Stufen A1-A2 (B1?) entspricht .


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## Alan Evangelista

Perseas said:


> Es gibt z.B. die, wo man alltägliche Ausdrücke und ganz einfache Sätze verstehen und verwenden kann (A1-A2 Stufen)



Das ist, was ich meinte.



Perseas said:


> Ich glaube, das "geht gerade so" deutet auf eine Kompetenz im Englischen, die den Stufen A1-A2 (B1?) entspricht .



Ja, ich nehme A1-A2 an. B1 scheint mir weniger wahrscheinlich.


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## anahiseri

Perseas said:


> Ich glaube, das "geht gerade so" deutet auf eine Kompetenz im Englischen, die den Stufen A1-A2 (B1?) entspricht .


Wer sich dafür interessiert, kann hier lesen, welche Kenntnisse diesen Stufen entsprechen:
Common European Framework of Reference for Languages - Wikipedia

According to the SSAG website (Singapore, IMO trustworthy), the German mark 4  corresponds to the grade D in the Singapore system. But I don't know if that's the same scale as in the UK or the USA.


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## L'irlandais

A2+. Is an elementary level all that good?  Kajjo’s just good enough sounded about right to me.  However it depends what one needs their English for.  The scale (of school grades) given in post #32 proposes German definitions.   If one’s needs were to work in English then it an A2 level would be inadequate.  (Or unsatisfactory/_mangelhaft on the school grade scale). _

B1 is _ausreichend/satisfactory (D on the school grade scale). _
B2 would _befriedigend.  Since both scales go from 1 to 6. (C on the school grade scale.) selbständige in linguistic terms_


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Der *Gemeinsame europäische Referenzrahmen für Sprachen *gliedert sich in drei Stufen – die elementare (A), selbständige (B) und kompetente (C) Sprachverwendung. Jede Stufe teilt sich wiederum in zwei Kompetenzniveaus auf. Die Empfehlung berücksichtigt für jedes Niveau die vier Teilqualifikationen Leseverständnis, Hörverständnis, Schreiben und Sprechen.


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## Syzygy

elroy said:


> I understand that point, but don't you think that if they were trying to emphasize their English as bad, "aber" would seem contradictory?
> 
> Also, I think I would expect "geht *nur* gerade so" if the intention were to emphasize their English as bad.
> 
> I don't see much of a significant difference between "passable" and "workable"; I just find "passable" more idiomatic in reference to a language.  As for "decent," as I said it's more positive but not much more.  But yes, "passable" is probably better.


I would understand "_My English is passable._" as an absolute "_Mein Englisch geht so/ist in Ordnung._" (oder _ausreichend_/_satisfactory_) which I feel does not contain the qualifying nature that "_gerade so_" adds making it more natural in the given context. So, even if, in a vacuum, _passable_ does express the same level of "badness", why not add something like "_just about_" to make it connect with both the previous (his English is in fact _not_ good) and the following statement the same way as in German?


elroy said:


> "OK, though only barely" ≠ D-


Can you elaborate? Isn't D- the definition of barely passing? Or am I misunderstanding your statement?


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## JClaudeK

L'irlandais said:


> However it depends what one needs their English for. [....]
> If one’s needs were to work in English then it an A2 level would be inadequate. (Or unsatisfactory/_mangelhaft on the school grade scale). _



I agree.


Alan Evangelista said:


> Ja, ich nehme A1-A2 an.


Damit kommt man nicht sehr weit.  Eine Diskussion mit "Einheimischen" ist da nicht drin!



> A2 *!*
> Can communicate in simple and routine tasks requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar and routine matters.


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## Hutschi

berndf said:


> No, can't agree at all. In marks "geht gerade so" is a D-, the worst mark possible better then an outright F.




Hi, I think this is correct - but the level of "gerade so" depends on context. (The requirements.)

It is not an absolute value.

edit: _(Quotation inserted)_


L'irlandais said:


> However it depends what one needs their English for.


I agree.

Example:
If you have to write documentation and say "Mein Englisch geht gerade so" - it may be quite good in other areas.


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