# Idioms



## MeLNom

Hello!. I have some doubts about English idioms. Are they generally used by the young people in these days?...or they aren't commonly among them? Because in Argentina, we young peoople rarely use Spanish idioms. Normally are used by adults and elders. Besides now, many of them aren't used and others have changed. I would be grateful if you could tell me about it.
Thanks in advance.
MeL


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## Musical Chairs

It depends on the idiom. Some are used, some aren't.


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## jonquiliser

I suppose it depends on the person, the language and the idiom. When I first was in Spain, it seemed to me that people used so many idioms. As a consequence, I use a fair share of them as well when speaking Spanish. Then when teaching a friend of mine a few bits and pieces of my mother tongue, I realised there were a lot of idioms that I used as well, just not paying attention to the fact that they are idioms - they are just so everyday as not to be very "visual". Of course, there are plenty of idioms that will sound "old-fashioned" or peculiar, and then they so to say stick out more, or are even used for that effect.


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## Hockey13

There are a bunch of dangerously overused idioms in the English language that we all use but never really notice how cheesy we sound while doing it. When I hear someone say an overused idiom, I almost cringe...but I guess I shouldn't judge a book by its cover.


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## Alxmrphi

Generally you are right...

Out all the time, I very very rarely hear anyone use any idioms, extremely rare, but then when I'm in work, I spend all day trying to figure out what is being said because honestly it is nearly all idioms.

I'm used to it now but a few years ago I honestly had to stop and ask nearly every time what they meant by it.


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## liulia

Hockey13 said:


> There are a bunch of dangerously overused idioms in the English language that we all use but never really notice how cheesy we sound while doing it. When I hear someone say an overused idiom, I almost cringe...but I guess I shouldn't judge a book by its cover.



Give us an example of an idiom that makes you cringe?
 I'm not quite sure what we're talking about, or what is included under the label "idiom" here.


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## Alxmrphi

Uhh "The bee's knees" makes me cringe.


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## cuchuflete

Alex_Murphy said:


> Uhh "The bees knees" makes me cringe.



It would make me cringe just a little less if it had an apostrophe.


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## Hockey13

liulia said:


> Give us an example of an idiom that makes you cringe?
> I'm not quite sure what we're talking about, or what is included under the label "idiom" here.


 
Nevermind...I wrote that at 4am. I forget what I was talking about.


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## cuchuflete

What's an idiom?

Let's get _back to basics_, as we won't win any _brownie points_ by _barking up the wrong tree_, confusing _apples and oranges_, or proverbs and sayings, with idioms.  Idioms must _drive_ non-native speakers _up the wall,_ as they really don't make any sense, word by word.  _The bottom line is_ that we have to learn them, idiom by idiom.


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## liulia

They'll just have to grit their teeth and get on with it, I guess!

If this is what we mean by idioms, I have to say that I don't think it's possible to avoid them - so  my question really was what's all the cringing about? What makes our friend Hockey actually cringe?


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## Alxmrphi

Some of them just sound very cheesey that's all.


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## french4beth

> In the US, they probably aren't used as often by young people; cuchu has provided many examples above.


 
I think this is true, but I don't think it means that many idioms are outdated.  In my experience people don't start developing the use of a wide range of idioms until their adult years.   I don't know that this is true, but it appears to be.  Does anyone else notice this?  Men in their thirties, for example, seem to use much more idiomatic language than men in their early twenties.  It seems to be something that's picked up throughout the adult years.


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## Dawei

Just curious, but is there any clear difference between a phrasal verb and an idiom? It seems that phrases like "run out," "carry on" "come on," etc are essential parts of the language for speakers of all ages--or is it only an "idiom" if it sounds cheesy?


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## Fernando

Do you mean that someone speaks in English WITHOUT using idioms? That's good news to me. Every time I read "The Economist", as an example, it is literally full of idioms (in the sense of set phrases with no meaning word by word... specially if you are Spanish).


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## liulia

"Set phrases with no meaning word by word" - that's a good definition, Fernando!
But expressions like "carry on" - surely they're not idioms, are they?


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## MarcB

Idiom: an expression in the usage of a language that is peculiar to itself either grammatically (as _no, it wasn't me_) or in having a meaning that cannot be derived from the conjoined meanings of its elements.
All languages have many idioms and they are used by all native speakers regardless of age. However not all idioms are used by all people.
Some people are not aware they are using idioms, but they are. 
Some out of date idioms are called clichés in English. Second language learners usually learn some idioms but obviously may have a limited knowledge of them depending on their level.


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## jlc246

This thread has a good explanation of phrasal verbs as compared to idioms.

Sound Shift taught me about phrasal verbs. They present a challenge to students of English whose native languages don't have them. (If I remember correctly, languages derived from Latin do not, but Germanic languages do.)

A co-worker used to entertain us with mixed-up idioms. (Some of them strayed over into mixed up proverbs. Sorry if this goes off topic.) My favorites are "We'll burn that bridge when we get to it" and "We need to grab the bull by the tail and face up to the situation."

jlc



For those who are not familiar with the idioms, "We'll cross that bridge when we get to it" (meaning we won't try to solve a problem until it's time to deal with it) and "don't burn your bridges" (meaning leave yourself choices) are common. You wouldn't normally burn a bridge when you get to it, because the idiom comes from the idea of burning a bridge _after_ you cross it so that your pursuers/enemy can't use it to follow you. "Grab the bull by the horns" is also a common idiom.

P.S. after seeing MarcB's post -- all of these could be considered clichés.


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## mjscott

Cecil B. deMille, the movie producer, was known for his mixing idioms. Because they make little or no sense in context, it's easy for someone to do if they speak one language in the home as a child, and learn another at school.

My father (a second-language English learner) was so happy one time, he was floating on Cloud 13!


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## SaritaSarang

I think people use idioms in English a lot when they speak and they don't even realize it. I do it all the time


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## Mick

SaritaSarang said:


> I think people use idioms in English a lot when they speak and they don't even realize it. I do it all the time


I agree, I think they're difficult to avoid and are a part of the language. I like many of them. Idioms and the like came up recently in a conversation with an Italian friend. She claimed that until she'd learned a good proportion of English idioms she didn't feel as though she knew English at all. We imagined a foreigner in England involved in this exchange:

Foreigner: "Could you tell me if there's a good restaurant nearby?"

Man in street: "Well, you can fill your face for next to nothing at Joe's Cafe, but you'll have to go round the houses to sniff it out. If you're feeling flush, try The Grand, but you'll pay through the nose..." etc


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## The Scrivener

Mick said:


> I agree, I think they're difficult to avoid and are a part of the language. I like many of them. Idioms and the like came up recently in a conversation with an Italian friend. She claimed that until she'd learned a good proportion of English idioms she didn't feel as though she knew English at all. We imagined a foreigner in England involved in this exchange:
> 
> Foreigner: "Could you tell me if there's a good restaurant nearby?"
> 
> Man in street: "Well, you can fill your face for next to nothing at Joe's Cafe, but you'll have to go round the houses to sniff it out. If you're feeling flush, try The Grand, but you'll pay through the nose..." etc


 
I trust you aren't being serious.  No English person, worth his salt, would be so inconsiderate as to speak to a foreigner in this way.  Simple replies are always used (and appreciated, in my experience).


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## SaritaSarang

You don't always know they are foriegners! Some people look like they could be from where I live and their english sounds just fine, it's not always that easy to tell that someone is a foriegner.


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## Voxy

Mick said:


> I agree,
> ...
> Foreigner: "Could you tell me if there's a good restaurant nearby?"
> 
> Man in street: "Well, you can fill your face for next to nothing at Joe's Cafe, but you'll have to go round the houses to sniff it out. If you're feeling flush, try The Grand, but you'll pay through the nose..." etc



Good example, nearly the same happend to me (to a poor foreigner in 
that regard) in Germany. The person in question just asked me something  
in a manner, so that i considered him as a native. He was not quite 
satisfied with my explanation, not to say, that it was all Greek to him.

Well, maybe the idiom "You can't judge a book by its cover." fits here? 

Voxy


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## Mick

The Scrivener said:


> I trust you aren't being serious.  No English person, worth his salt, would be so inconsiderate as to speak to a foreigner in this way.  Simple replies are always used (and appreciated, in my experience).


Of course I'm being serious (though obviously I was exaggerating a little to illustrate a point). As has been said, it's not always apparent that someone is foreign, or else people assume that the other person's English is better than it is. Also, not everyone thinks about their language to the same degree as do the people on this forum. Many people, even if asked to speak more clearly, don't seem to realise that they're using slang, idioms, chopping words short and using other typical lingustic foibles, any of which can trip up people with even a fairly decent knowledge of English.


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