# Hindi: Is Jana Gana Mana intelligible to Hindiphones?



## HZKhan

I've always wondered if an educated Hindiphone can understand the Indian national anthem or not. Can anybody tell?


----------



## mundiya

Yes, it is intelligible to Hindiphones, but please note that the language of the national anthem as written by Tagore is Bengali.


----------



## Qureshpor

It would be good to post the stanza used as the Hindi equivalent of the Bengali poem to see what the words actually are and how the words are perceived by Hindi speakers. I would also be interested in knowing who the words are addressed to because there is a section of people who state that it was addressed to George V when he arrived in Calcutta..


----------



## mundiya

It wasn't addressed to George V.  In Tagore's own words found in a letter he wrote...

"A certain high official in His Majesty's service, who was also my  friend, had requested that I write a song of felicitation towards the  Emperor. The request simply amazed me. It caused a great stir in my  heart. In response to that great mental turmoil, I pronounced the  victory in Jana Gana Mana of that Bhagya Vidhata [ed. God of Destiny] of  India who has from age after age held steadfast the reins of India's  chariot through rise and fall, through the straight path and the curved.  That Lord of Destiny, that Reader of the Collective Mind of India, that  Perennial Guide, could never be George V, George VI, or any other  George. Even my official friend understood this about the song. After  all, even if his admiration for the crown was excessive, he was not  lacking in simple common sense."

_[Ravindrajivani  (Tagore's biography) by Prabhatkumar Mukherjee, volume II page 339]_


----------



## tonyspeed

Pakistani Khan said:


> I've always wondered if an educated Hindiphone can understand the Indian national anthem or not. Can anybody tell?



Seeing as the song is mostly names and Sanksrit with a bunch of o's added, even I can mostly understand it.

Jônôgônômônô-ôdhinayôkô jôyô he Bharôtôbhagyôbidhata
Pônjabô Sindhu Gujôraṭô Maraṭha Drabiṛo Utkôlô Bônggô
Bindhyô Himachôlô Jômuna Gôngga Uchhôlôjôlôdhitôrônggô
Tôbô shubhô name jage, Tôbô shubhô ashishô mage,
Gahe tôbô jôyôgatha.
Jônôgônômônggôlôdayôkô, jôyô he Bharôtôbhagyôbidhata
Jôyô he, jôyô he, jôyô he, jôyô jôyô jôyô jôyô he


----------



## Dib

As tonyspeed pointed out, the original text has only a few specifically Bengali features, and most of them are probably not even realized by Hindi-speakers, as the differences are very subtle. Of course, the Bengali spoken text would sound rather different due especially to the vowel differences but also some other small phonetic differences like v~b, also gujraat ~ gujraT - this last one may even be imperceptible at the pace and tempo. The quoted transliteration, however, does not show the proper pronunciation, it just shows the spelling. That is, anyway, a negligible issue as most Hindi speakers have probably never even heard the "proper" (so to say) Bengali version.

Apart from these, the specifically Bengali (as opposed to Hindi) features are:
1. Sindhu - for "Sindhu Pradesh" the Bengali name of "Sindh". But hardly an obstacle for Hindi speakers.
2. Bôngo / Bang - for Bengal is probably not common in Hindi, but again not a big obstacle.
3. tôbo / tava - "your" is a common Sanskrit loan in poetic Bengali. Not sure about the status in Hindi. (Hindi speakers, opinion please!)
4. name - "in the name", close enough to "naam meN"
5. mage - "asks for", close enough to "maaNge".
6. jage, mage, gahe - probably in Hindi a plural ending -eN will be expected. But again, not really a stumble-block.

So, as you see, the Bengali text is actually quite easy to understand for the Hindi speakers - at least from grammar point of view, it probably just sounds plain Hindi with some small quirks. Now, about whether the vocabulary is understandable - I guess - mundiya and tonyspeed's answers clearly imply that it is.


----------



## Qureshpor

Dib Jii, please pardon my ignorance. Is there a Hindi version of the Indian National Anthem, originally penned by Rabindranath Tagore in hyper-Sanskritised Bengali (to borrow mundiya jii's turn of phrase) or do people throughout India sing it in its original Bengali ?


----------



## Dib

Actually I am also as much ignorant about whether there exists an explicitly "non-Bengali" official version. I hope someone more informed will clear the haze. But my impression is that different parts of India sing it in their own way, though I can vouch only for the Bengali and Hindi ways.

As for the vocabulary, only the opening part "jana-gaṇa-mana-adhinaayaka jaya he bhaarata-bhaagya-vidhaataa" (written out the Sanskrit way) would sound somewhat "foreign" to educated Bengalis* - in the sense that they would probably have to think about it twice before figuring out the meaning, owing to the Sanskrit-style compounding, though the individual elements are quite normal day-to-day Bengali (or at best, a bit formal in case of "adhinaayaka", which is, for example, the newspaper jargon for captains of sports teams among others). The rest of the song is just normal poetic Bengali. It may sound rather heavily Sanskritized (not my words!! ) to non-Bengalis, but this level is nothing out of the way for poetic Bengali. The other potential issue is that some of the geographical proper nouns used are historical (utkala) or technical (draaviDa), etc. and not really current.

EDIT: *Another similar piece of relatively unwieldy Sanskrit compound is "jana-gana-mangala-daayaka", which I missed before, again nothing uncommon about the individual elements, it's just the compounding which may cause some slowing down. [Realized after seeing tonyspeed's post #10]


----------



## Qureshpor

Dib said:


> Actually I am also as much ignorant about whether there exists an explicitly "non-Bengali" official version. I hope someone more informed will clear the haze. But my impression is that different parts of India sing it in their own way, though I can vouch only for the Bengali and Hindi ways.[..]


Just for the sake of clarity, do you mean people sing it in their own particular language (Marwi,Punjabi, Tamil, Hindi etc) or in Bengali but in the accents associated with their languages? Is there a separate Hindi version or does everyone use the Bengali original moulded to their way of pronunciation?


----------



## tonyspeed

Dib said:


> As tonyspeed pointed out, the original text has only a few specifically Bengali features, and most of them are probably not even realized by Hindi-speakers, as the differences are very subtle. Of course, the Bengali spoken text would sound rather different due especially to the vowel differences but also some other small phonetic differences like v~b, also gujraat ~ gujraT - this last one may even be imperceptible at the pace and tempo. The quoted transliteration, however, does not show the proper pronunciation, it just shows the spelling. That is, anyway, a negligible issue as most Hindi speakers have probably never even heard the "proper" (so to say) Bengali version.
> 
> Apart from these, the specifically Bengali (as opposed to Hindi) features are:
> 1. Sindhu - for "Sindhu Pradesh" the Bengali name of "Sindh". But hardly an obstacle for Hindi speakers.
> 2. Bôngo / Bang - for Bengal is probably not common in Hindi, but again not a big obstacle.
> 3. tôbo / tava - "your" is a common Sanskrit loan in poetic Bengali. Not sure about the status in Hindi. (Hindi speakers, opinion please!)
> 4. name - "in the name", close enough to "naam meN"
> 5. mage - "asks for", close enough to "maaNge".
> 6. jage, mage, gahe - probably in Hindi a plural ending -eN will be expected. But again, not really a stumble-block.
> 
> So, as you see, the Bengali text is actually quite easy to understand for the Hindi speakers - at least from grammar point of view, it probably just sounds plain Hindi with some small quirks. Now, about whether the vocabulary is understandable - I guess - mundiya and tonyspeed's answers clearly imply that it is.




shubh - common word 
aashiish - common word
jay - common word
mangal - common word

bhaarat - common word
bhaag - common word but usually carrying the meaning of "part" (hissaa)
daataa - common word
from which the meaning of Bharoto bhag-go bidhata can be implied 

The parts which seem like they would be difficult are:

Jana-Gana-Mana-Adhinayaka (although man, jan and adhiin are common words)

and

Jana-Gana-Mangala Dayaka  (दायक is used in Hindi but in a slightly different way)


----------



## mundiya

Dib said:


> 3. tôbo / tava - "your" is a common Sanskrit loan in poetic Bengali. Not sure about the status in Hindi. (Hindi speakers, opinion please!)



It's used, but I don't know how common it is.



> So, as you see, the Bengali text is actually quite easy to understand  for the Hindi speakers - at least from grammar point of view, it  probably just sounds plain Hindi with some small quirks. Now, about  whether the vocabulary is understandable - I guess - mundiya and  tonyspeed's answers clearly imply that it is.



Yes, that is correct.


----------



## mundiya

Qureshpor said:


> Just for the sake of clarity, do you mean people sing it in their own particular language (Marwi,Punjabi, Tamil, Hindi etc) or in Bengali but in the accents associated with their languages? Is there a separate Hindi version or does everyone use the Bengali original moulded to their way of pronunciation?



As far as I'm aware, the differences across India are in pronunciation, not in lyrics.  In other words, the Hindi version is linguistically Bengali but phonetically Hindi.


----------



## HZKhan

tonyspeed said:


> Bindhyô Himachôlô Jômuna Gôngga Uchhôlôjôlôdhitôrônggô



What does it mean?


----------



## Dib

mundiya said:


> As far as I'm aware, the differences across India are in pronunciation, not in lyrics.  In other words, the Hindi version is linguistically Bengali but phonetically Hindi.



That's my impression too. The lyrics are neutral enough to pass off for any of the major North Indian languages with only a couple of unobtrusive adjustments, e.g. Gujarati would need even fewer grammatical adjustments than Hindi (I think, points 4 & 6 in post #6 won't apply). I'd guess, the South-Indian speakers would probably approximate it to a corresponding Sanskrit or more indifferently a northern pronunciation - or to use a Tamilism, simply "vaTa mozhi"* (Northern language ~ Sanskrit) approximation. As we have speakers of at least Telugu and Tamil in this forum, I'm hoping to learn it directly from them.

* Sorry for the urge to show off that I know this word. 

-----

------

@Khan Sahib:
"ucchala jaladhi-taraṅga-" (transcribed in the more familiar Sanskrit way in IAST) is "the swelling and surging waves of the ocean". In Bengali it is pronounced as: "uchchhɔlo jɔlodhi-tɔroŋgo", where ɔ is an open o sound.


----------



## Qureshpor

mundiya said:


> As far as I'm aware, the differences across India are in pronunciation, not in lyrics.  In other words, the Hindi version is linguistically Bengali but phonetically Hindi.


Thank you. So, in conclusion, the Indian National Anthem is in Bengali.


----------



## mundiya

Qureshpor said:


> Who was this letter written to?



This will be my last post about Tagore.  Mukherjee has been a leading authority on his life, so the letter is likely genuine.  It was written to Pulin Bihari Sen.  In another letter, Tagore was even more direct...

"I should only insult myself if I cared to answer those who consider me  capable of such unbounded stupidity as to sing in praise of George the  Fourth or George the Fifth as the Eternal Charioteer leading the  pilgrims on their journey through countless ages of the timeless history  of mankind."

The song was a subtle protest against George rather than a dedication to him.


----------



## marrish

Dib said:


> 3. tôbo / tava - "your" is a common Sanskrit loan in poetic Bengali. Not sure about the status in Hindi. (Hindi speakers, opinion please!)


Not a Hindi speaker per se but I am familiar with some bhajans where it is used as "_tava pad _or _charaNRan meN_"


----------



## ye jofte jurab

Pakistani Khan said:


> What does it mean?



Pakistani Khan, this "word" (उच्छलजलधितरंग) would mean splashing (of the) waves of the ocean. Ucchal (उच्छल) means splashing/undulating/surging, jaladhi (जलधि) means ocean, and tarang (तरंग) means waves. Because the anthem is mostly nouns, you can see how it's not hard for a Hindi speaker to make sense of this poem once the Sanskrit -> Bengali phonological shifts are reversed, even though it's not exactly Hindi per se. One does not need to know the poem is Bengali to understand it (I have never learned any Bengali). The component words are well known to Hindi speakers, even if the way they combine together is potentially unfamiliar.

The other slightly unfamiliar part of the poem is the verbs, which are not quite standard Hindi. I can assume from context that māge is like mānge, and gāhe is like gāye:

tava shubh āshish māge, gāhe tava jayagāthā
तव शुभ आशिष मागे, गाहे तव जयगाथा।

The Sanskrit-style pronunciation of the anthem by Hindi speakers also supports the idea that it is not not processed as Hindi, but rather some kind of generic Sanskritized Indo-Aryan. When referring to the anthem in speech, a Hindi speaker might (or might not) call it jan gan man. But when reciting, it is always jana gana mana. Likewise jaya is the Sanskrit pronunciation of the Hindi word jay, taranga of tarang, etc.

There is a well-known loose translation of Jana Gana Mana into actual Hindi called Shubh Sukh Chain, which served as the qaumī tarānā of the ārzī hukūmat-e-āzād hind.


----------



## sanskrut_bhashik

Indian national anthem is in "Highly-Sanskritised" Bengali.

Here I am talking about the part of original poem adapted as the anthem. Rest of the original poem has more Bengali usage.

Only words I do not know, but can guess the meaning of are "jaage" (may live), "maage"(demand, ask for), gaahe [(we)sing]; that is it.

Rest all words are "pure" Sanskrit and any one who is familiar with pure Hindi, pure Gujarati etc can understand.

'Pure' in Indian languages is either adding Sanskrit words or using colloquial words particular to the language.

Less colloquial use and more Sanskrit makes any Indian language highly Sanskritised (especially Sanskrit-derived languages).

South Indian (Dravidian) languages too have Sanskrit words, even as much as Sanskrit-derived languages. 

Hence they can "understand" the anthem relatively as well.

Many who speak Australo-Asiatic languages in India know Hindi. Again, those who are familiar with more Sanskrit words will find it familiar. But they may not know that these words are basically Sanskrit, they may think the "difficult" words are from Hindi itself. Because Hindi vocabulary, Sanskrit vocabulary or vocabulary of other derived languages are not mutually exclusive.


----------



## Qureshpor

^ Thank you for the very clear, informative and to the point explanation. Much appreciated sanskkrut_bhashik jii.


----------



## sanskrut_bhashik

Qureshpor said:


> ^ Thank you for the very clear, informative and to the point explanation. Much appreciated sanskkrut_bhashik jii.



Thanks.


----------

