# Expressing uncertainty of your Japanese



## Beejay

Hey guys

I just wanted to ask what would be a good way of apologising and expressing that your Japanese skills are not yet skilled, and then encourage the listener to correct your Japanese. Specifically, I am looking for something to place at the beginning of an email.

My own guess would be something like..

まず、すみません。私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんでしょう。正してください。

I'm not even sure if it's right to omit the topic for that third statement, or if まず sounds right here, or if 正す is the right verb for this, or even whether 上手 fits this situation. I'm sure someone can give me a much better way of saying this.

Thanks in advance.

~ Beejay


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## Flaminius

まず、すみません。  This is a weird thing to say.  Perhaps "まず、おねがいがあります。" would fit the bill.

私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんでしょう。  _Deshō_ is not the word to be used in reference to oneself.  If you want to embellish the sentence by adding supposition or circumlocution, 上手じゃない (上手ではない)と思います sounds better.

正してください。  The verb 正す is too formal.  I would imagine that you are asking to be corrected for moral wrong doings.    Let me post a substitution later on.


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## Beejay

Flaminius said:


> まず、すみません。  This is a weird thing to say.  Perhaps "まず、おねがいがあります。" would fit the bill.
> 
> 私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんでしょう。  _Deshō_ is not the word to be used in reference to oneself.  If you want to embellish the sentence by adding supposition or circumlocution, 上手じゃない (上手ではない)と思います sounds better.
> 
> 正してください。  The verb 正す is too formal.  I would imagine that you are asking to be corrected for moral wrong doings.    Let me post a substitution later on.


I am a fan of circumlocution in my everday english speech, so that sounds good to me! Saying things that don't sound weird, and using the words I know in the correct way is still something I cannot grasp. I suppose I'd need a tutor or class for help with that.

A slight digression from the topic, but I thought that でしょう simply expressed uncertainty? I was going for something similar to "My japanese is probably still bad". Why is it that you can't use it in reference to yourself?

As always, thanks a bunch, Flaminius; I sometimes think this forum wouldn't even function without you.


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## Flaminius

Beejay said:


> A slight digression from the topic, but I thought that でしょう simply expressed uncertainty? I was going for something similar to "My japanese is probably still bad". Why is it that you can't use it in reference to yourself?


Maybe here cultural differences set in.  "?私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんでしょう" sounds as if you doubt that your Japanese is inadequate.  It may also imply that you have realised the inadequacy just now.  The mentality of the Japanese language (note: not necessarily the people) would expect that you should already know for sure that you are not good enough (I don't commit myself to the statements about your Japanese, though).  It entails that you cannot express your uncertainty in an objective manner like a forecaster talks about the weather tomorrow, "It will probably rain in the morning."

Now, about 正してください, a few alternatives are:
直してください,
間違いを直してください
間違いがあったら直してください


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## Beejay

Flaminius said:


> Maybe here cultural differences set in.  "?私の日本語はまだ上手じゃないんでしょう" sounds as if you doubt that your Japanese is inadequate.  It may also imply that you have realised the inadequacy just now.  The mentality of the Japanese language (note: not necessarily the people) would expect that you should already know for sure that you are not good enough (I don't commit myself to the statements about your Japanese, though).  It entails that you cannot express your uncertainty in an objective manner like a forecaster talks about the weather tomorrow, "It will probably rain in the morning."
> 
> Now, about 正してください, a few alternatives are:
> 直してください,
> 間違いを直してください
> 間違いがあったら直してください


Ahh, I completely understand for once. Thanks again, Flaminius.


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## Ocham

I'm Japanese. I was born in Tokyo and have been living in Tokyo all my life (for 59 years). I speak standard Japanese.
What you want is exactly like this:

Sumimasen. Watashi wa nihongo ga amari jouzudewa arimasen.
すみません。私はあまり日本語が上手ではありません。
Moshi machigatteiru tokoro ga attara naosite kudasai
もし間違っているところがあったら、直してください。

This expression is what we usually and commonly use in this case. 
Some parts of this sentence might look or sound gramatically wrong 
to you, but I'm sure we actually say like this. And it is natural.


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## Beejay

Ocham said:


> I'm Japanese. I was born in Tokyo and have been living in Tokyo all my life (for 59 years). I speak standard Japanese.
> What you want is exactly like this:
> 
> Sumimasen. Watashi wa nihongo ga amari jouzudewa arimasen.
> すみません。私はあまり日本語が上手ではありません。
> Moshi machigatteiru tokoro ga attara naosite kudasai
> もし間違っているところがあったら、直してください。
> 
> This expression is what we usually and commonly use in this case.
> Some parts of this sentence might look or sound gramatically wrong
> to you, but I'm sure we actually say like this. And it is natural.


59 years! You are very experienced indeed. 

It doesn't seem grammatically wrong to me, out of curiosity, could you explain how it is not grammatically correct? 

Also, I'm not familiar with あったら. This page states that it means "alas, regrettably", though it sounds a little funny to me. I'm also not so much familiar with the seemingly versatile word, ところ. Literally, I understand it as being a "place", but then there are phrases like ところで which I was told is similar to English's "by the way", so it seems I still don't understand that word yet.

I was going to try to write a literal translation of your sentence here in English and ask you how close the meaning was, but it seemed to me that the sentence doesn't translate literally very well; Oh well.


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## Åland

Hi everyone, I'm new to posting to the forum (I've been more of a watcher in the past), but I thought I'd contribute my little bit.

When I was talking to people about my Japanese level I used to go with the phrase:

すみませんが、私の日本語はまだ上手になりません。

This invariably elicited denials from the very polite Japanese people I was talking to, about how great they thought my Japanese really was.

I think you could also try the reverse of the above sentence with:

すみませんが、私の日本語はもう下手です。

but I'm not sure how good that sounds in comparison with the other.


Åland


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## Beejay

I don't really want to say something that sounds so boastful, to be honest. I'd be lying anyway.  It seems to me that it is definitely better to say the first phrase and let polite people be polite, than it is to be be potentially pretentious and incur a what may be more negative reaction.


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## Ocham

In response to Beejay's question:

「私は日本語が…」has a problem. 「は」and 「が」 are both nominative case, but
that's the way we usually use in certain circumstances like:
「私はあなたが好きです」which means "I love you." We never say
「私はあたなを好きです」. We don't use obejective case where it
should be in this situation.

「ところ」 of 「間違っているところ」is literally means "place", but we often use it
to mitigate the tone. This 「ところ」has nothing to do with 「ところで」, though
it might have an etymological connection.
「たら」 of 「あったら」 is a kind of subjunctive meaning "if there is [was] 
(any mistakes)".


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## Flaminius

Åland said:


> Hi everyone, I'm new to posting to the forum (I've been more of a watcher in the past), but I thought I'd contribute my little bit.


Welcome, *Åland*!  The more the merrier, but what took you so long to participate?   



> すみませんが、私の日本語はなかなか a上手になりません。
> (...)
> すみませんが、私の日本語はまだ b下手です。



a. Anyone who perceives differently please chime in, but I find まだ here a bit awkward.  まだ上手にならない sounds to me as if you were saying your Japanese is either good or not good; with no gradations in between.  It leaves little room to express how good your Japanese is.  It would also sound as if your Japanese, which has been hitherto rather poor, becomes good all of a sudden one day as the result of practise.  In the context of language learning, I find this framework unusual.

I suggest another adverb なかなか as a replacement.  When used with ない, it shows that you are working on something but you haven't achieved it yet.

b. もう is "already" as in もう8時だ (It's eight o'clock already).  まだ better suits here since it means "still" (N.B., it is "yet", when accompanied by -ない).

Welcome again.


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## Åland

Thanks for the welcome Flaminius



Flaminius said:


> b. もう is "already" as in もう8時だ (It's eight o'clock already).  まだ better suits here since it means "still" (N.B., it is "yet", when accompanied by -ない).



Yes, well (embarrassed cough), in my second suggestion I did mean 'still' but unfortunately I got a little confused and used もう instead of まだ as you thankfully corrected for me.

It's been some time since I've had to communicate in Japanese and I guess I'd better practise some more before I make any more contributions to the forum. がんばります。

Åland


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