# 犹太



## babaz

Hello,

Could you please help me "decorticate" this word, 犹太, which means "jew" ?

Thank you


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## CHNI

犹太人 means jew, and 犹太教 means Judaism.


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## babaz

Is there a particular meaning for each of these sinograms (through which one could understand the etymology of the word) ?


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## alevtinka

The pronunciation of "犹太" (jou tai), to some extent, sounds like "Judai" part of "Judaism", je pense )

XXX + 人 - People from/of XXX

XXX + 教 - XXX religion ou XXX organisation


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## CHNI

I think the 犹太 You2 Tai4 comes from the pronunciation of the word Jew-dam, there is no particuler meaning of each of the sinograms in this case which concern the Judaism.
The word 人 ren 2 here means people of a certain race or nation, for example 美国人 mei3 guo2 ren2 - American (people), 白种人 bai2 zhong3 ren2 - Caucasian/White man etc. 教 jiao4 - religion, for example, 佛教 fo2 jiao4 - Buddhism


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## Flaminius

*babaz*, the two characters are meant to supply the pronunciations only.  It is true that 犹 (akin, still) is not the only character with the pronunciation _yóu_ and nor is 太 (big) for _tài_.  It is very difficult to understand why the two was selected for Jew, but it has probably nothing to do with the characters' meanings.


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## BODYholic

Flaminius said:


> 太 (big) for _tài_.


I'm afraid that would be "大". 

"太" can be used as an adjective or adverb, and its meaning varies according.


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## xiaolijie

BODYholic said:


> I'm afraid that would be "大".
> 
> "太" can be used as an adjective or adverb, *and its meaning varies according*.


And if this is the case, I don't think it's too difficult to think of "太" in the _abstract_ sense of "big" on occasions.


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## babaz

xiaolijie said:


> And if this is the case, I don't think it's too difficult to think of "太" in the _abstract_ sense of "big" on occasions.


Why ?


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## xiaolijie

Just think of the more abstract, elegant ways of saying "big": great, grand, extreme, excess, etc. All of these words, including "big", can be used for "太", in appropriate contexts.


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## BODYholic

xiaolijie said:


> And if this is the case, I don't think it's too difficult to think of "太" in the _abstract_ sense of "big" on occasions.


A bit far-fetched, I would say.


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## xiaolijie

BODYholic said:


> A bit far-fetched, I would say.


In what way is it far-fetched? Is it just because you don't happen to like it?

For your information, one of the most respected Chinese dictionaries,_ the Contemporary Standard Chinese Dictionary_, lists one of the meanings of "太" being "大" (as quoted below, along with illustrative examples). Is this also far-fetched??

*太* [tài] 
*1.* 形 大；高 :  _太空。 太湖。 太学。 _
_(You can also see this at nciku.com)
_
Actually, you should have realised that it's not my intention to asert that "太" means "big", but mainly to try to make your reponse (post #7) to another member's post a little less dogmatic and more friendly. Please remember we try to promote "*a respectful, helpful and cordial tone*" (see Forums Rules above), if at all possible.


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## Umuri

Flaminius said:


> *babaz*, the two characters are meant to supply the pronunciations only. It is true that 犹 (akin, still) is not the only character with the pronunciation _yóu_ and nor is 太 (big) for _tài_. It is very difficult to understand why the two was selected for Jew, but it has probably nothing to do with the characters' meanings.



I guess it's a transliteration of Yehudim, how the Jewish call themselves.



BODYholic said:


> I'm afraid that would be "大".
> 
> "太" can be used as an adjective or adverb, and its meaning varies according.



Not actually. 犹大 is Judas or Jude, a name of individual. Like the betrayer in the Bible. We do call Jewish People as 犹太 in Chinese.

Personally speaking, as 犹太 is a transliteration, I don't think u need to get the particular meaning of these two sinograms. Because, mostly in chinese, the sinograms of a transliteration word do not make sense, they r just pronunciation. But yes, the translator always tend to choose "good looking" sinograms even for transliteration, for there r too many choices for a transliteration as many chinese charactors pronunce just the same or similar. 

For eg, the Coca-Cola used to transliterate as "蝌蝌啃蜡", it was not selling well for the sinograms have a strange meaning as "tadpole nibble wax". Then they changed to another transliteration, of course the two transliterations pronunce similar, which is also used nowadays, "可口可乐". This looks much much much better, for the word 可口 means tasty and 可乐 means canbe happy. However, 犹太 may not to be such example.


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## Flaminius

Umuri said:


> I guess it's a transliteration of Yehudim, how the Jewish call themselves.


Well, that's Hebrew.  Maybe Jews did not speak Hebrew so often when Asia learnt about them.  In any case, a more probable source is the English Judea or the French Judée.  Would we also throw Latin Judaea in to justify the Y pronunciation of the first consonant?


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## Ghabi

I think the Latin _judaea_ is a real suspect, since the designation 猶太 didn't show up until around the mid-19th century (according to the historian Chen Yuan 陳垣), and the transliteration may have originated from the Christian missionaries then working in China (just a shot in the dark, of course!) During the Yuan Dynasty, the Jews were known as 朮忽 [*ʃutxut] (?) (or other similar-sounding names), which is apparently from Persian ج‍ﮩ‍ود juhūd.


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