# Norwegian: heller in negative sentence



## littlepond

Hello everyone!

I have just started to learn Norwegian.

Going on from reading about the verb 2 position, I went on to read about "setningsadverb" on Grammatik (link to PDF file here). I became quite confused with what they say about "heller". In the two examples they have given, it's the first one that is confusing me. The two example sentences are:

1. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag.
2. Han kommer ikke i dag heller.

In the second sentence, I get it that "heller" is in the "also" sense, applying to "i dag" (that is, he is not coming today as well). But in the first sentence, I am not sure where the "also" (or "rather") is applying. Does it apply to the action of coming ("kommer") or to him ("han")? Is it that he also is not coming (just like some other people), or is that he is not only not doing something else but also not coming. Also, since there are three situations in fact where "also" can apply, what would be the third sentence?

Thanks a lot in advance!


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## raumar

Hello!

I agree: the second sentence would normally be read the way you read it, while the first is more problematic. But these are written sentences without any context. A context, or spoken words, would solve the problem. 

It is easy to construct different contexts, where this sentence is understood in different ways - emphasizing the location, time, person or action: 

_Han kommer ikke på jobb i dag. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag. 
Han kom ikke hit i går. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag.
Hun kommer ikke hit i dag. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag. 
Han ringer ikke hit i dag. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag. _(this is perhaps the least likely interpretation, in my opinion).

The ambiguity disappears in a spoken sentence. What "_heller_" refers to, will depends on which word is stressed ("_han_", "_kommer_", "_hit_" or "_i dag_"). 

You may also get rid of the ambiguity by rephrasing the sentence. For example: 

_Heller ikke i dag kommer han hit_. - refers to "i dag". 
_Heller ikke han kommer hit i dag._ - refers to "han". 
_Han kommer ikke hit i dag heller._ - refers to "i dag". 
_I dag kommer han ikke hit heller._ - refers to "hit".


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## littlepond

raumar said:


> _Heller ikke i dag kommer han hit_. - refers to "i dag".
> _Heller ikke han kommer hit i dag._ - refers to "han".



Thank you so very much, raumar: it's much more clear now to me. But I had one further question based on your reply: in the above two quoted sentences, the verb "kommer" does not seem to me in 2nd position (even if I take "ikke" with "heller", then "heller ikke" and "i dag" make 2 units, so "kommer" seems to be in 3rd position; similarly, it is after "heller ikke" and "han"). Is that acceptable, or was it just because you were explaining the sentence construction to me? I had read so far that verb must be in 2nd position.

Thanks in advance!


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## raumar

Both these sentences are correct. 

If we compare 1) "_Heller ikke i dag kommer han hit"_ and 2) _"Han kommer ikke hit i dag heller"_, the meaning is the same. 2) is the usual word order, but 1) can be used if you want to give extra emphasis to "_heller ikke i dag_". 

You have a similar example in your grammar pdf: "_Bare han kommer i dag._" 

However, I am no grammar expert. I can say that these sentences are correct, but I can't explain why, or give you any general rule. I hope that others can help you with that.


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## JonTve

1. Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag.
2. Han kommer ikke i dag heller.

1. He is not comming here today.
2. He is not comming today either.


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## raumar

I am not sure that your translation of 1) works - you have left out "_heller_" in the English version. 

I am not a native English speaker, but I think "_heller ikk_e" can be translated as "neither" or "nor". My attempt to translate "_Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag_" would be something like. "Neither is he coming here today".


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## JonTve

1. He is not coming here or any where else today.


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## raumar

JonTve said:


> 1. He is not coming here or any where else today.



Yes, that's also how I read the sentence, when I read it for the first time. My point is just that the meaning of "_Han kommer heller ikke hit i dag_" changes, if you put the stress on "han" or "i dag". I tried to find a translation that preserves this ambiguity.


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## littlepond

Thanks a lot, raumar and JonTve!


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