# Politically correct word for "fat"



## Mario Poe

Hi! I'm working on an english text book for ESL students. There's a unit wich describes physical characteristics and personality. When it comes to weight... what would be a politically correct word for "fat" and "thin"? Those words are already suggested in the book, but I don´t think they are proper nice words to teach small children...

Native advice would be awesome!!

Thanks in advance...


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## garual

fat= overweight
thin=skinny


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## Mario Poe

Thanks Garual, but isn't "skinny" kind of too informal? I don't know.. I'm looking for words that children can use not also with friends, but in any kind of situation.


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## xymox

Hola,

fat - _obese_, _overweight_
_Thin _sounds OK to me, much better than skinny for example, or _slim _is another option.


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## Mario Poe

AudKaem said:


> I agree that "fat" it not politically correct in a lot of situations, but I see nothing wrong with "thin." Another option, though, could be "slim."


 
Thak You very much... so, thin it's ok, then. Is overweight a word that an 11 year old would use to descibe a big person?


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## cuchuflete

Try this previous thread: Stout 

It has many options for those who dislike direct, honest speech.

There is nothing wrong with the words fat and skinny, if they accurately describe something with those characteristics.
Have you ever seen an overweight animal or person who was not at least somewhat fat?  Is fatness reduced by calling it obesity?  Corpulence is available if you prefer extra syllables, but the image is the same as fatness.


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## USMeg

"Heavy" is an accurate but fairly neutral description.


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## Mario Poe

Jjajajajaja... thank you very much cuchuflete, but is not that I dislke honesty. I'm just trying to avoid stereotypes among children in the clasroom.

I aprecciate your help!


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## cuchuflete

Welcome to the funhouse, Mario Poe.  The difficulty with the politically correct euphemisms is that they do nothing to obscure or diminish the amount of fatty tissue in the body of the person described.

A large person may be one with grand dimensions, and little or no fat on his or her body.  It is not an accurate synonym for fat, though it is sometimes used as a pc euphemism.  Heavy, as suggested by USMeg, may be a good equivalent for fat, but it may also be used to describe a (U.S.) football lineman with lots of muscle and little fat on his frame.  

There is nothing inherently stereotypical about the words fat, thin, skinny, or potbellied.
They may be good descriptive terms.  The various euphemisms available to use in their place may be misleading or inaccurate.  Pick whatever word you like, and try to be sure that it conveys, precisely, the physical characteristics you wish to describe.


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## Franzi

I don't think 'fat' is all that rude a word.  Saying that someone is 'fat', 'overweight', 'stout', etc. is often rude, but that's because you're pointing out a feature that people generally dislike.  Using more PC language won't make it less rude to comment on someone's weight.

Most words for 'thin' are fine because no one thinks that's a bad quality.  (Though 'skinny' is definitely a more negative word than 'thin'.)


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## Loob

Mario Poe said:


> I'm looking for words that children can use not also with friends, but in any kind of situation.


I would say that _fat_ and _thin_ are words that BrE-speaking 11-year-olds *would* use in any kind of situation.

They wouldn't (I hope) walk up to someone and say "you are very fat". But it would be pretty rude to do that whatever word they substituted 
EDIT: As Franzi just said


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## liliput

_Thin_ is fine and fairly neutral. _Slim_ is complimentary, _skinny_ is not very nice.

Any euphemisms for _fat _are essentially saying the same thing, so you might as well say _fat _if that's what you mean. _Obese _means _very fat_. _Overweight _is probably considered more polite than _fat_.


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## GreenWhiteBlue

If one teaches children that the word that accurately describes someone is not "nice", doesn't that also teach children that whatever that person is (whether _fat _or something else) is also not "nice", but is instead inferior or shameful?

The word _fat_ is not rude.  On the other hand, once you start categorizing children by weight, you are already assigning them to types regardless of the political correctness of the terms used.


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## Mario Poe

Mnnn.. very interesting discussion and subject. I'm glad to create this kind of debate about such a big (or fat... ) issue. The thing is that, you have to keep in mind, we're talking about small children who don't necesarilly know the small differences between one word and another. (Fat, obese, overweigt). Adults, on the other hand, had a lot of vocabulary and background which help them to use those words wisely. Some say it's ok to call somebody "fat", but I'm sure they would'nt do it, if they know that's gonna hurt somebody's feelings. When it comes to education, is not as easy as it seems. If it came to me, I would teach children how to communicate instead of focusing on physical characteristics.. but I'm just correcting a book.

All your opinions were very helpful.. and please forgive my grammar/spelling mistakes!


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## Lis48

Myself, I prefer  _plump_ and  _slim._


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## cuchuflete

Without regard to political keerectitude, euphemistic reduction or augmentation, or anything but accurate description, the following is offered as an AE view, subject to correction or improvement by those who might wish to join in.

←------------------------------------------------------------------------------------→
Obese
very fat
corpulent........fat...........plump.......average........slim..thin..............skinny


←------------overweight------------→__________ ←--------underweight--------→



Correction and dilemma: According to the popular press, a very large percentage of my
fellow citizens are overweight, so I suppose that overweight and average should overlap.


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## johndot

[...] so I suppose that overweight and average should overlap. (cuchuflete, post #16)
 
No, the average of the top weight and the bottom weight is right in the middle (even though the number of people on each side of the line may be unequal)! And for this reason, the only accurate, yet neutral, description must be ‘unhealthily larger/bigger/heavier than average’. In other words: fat.


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## AngelEyes

Mario Poe,

Personally, I like the fact you're taking into consideration how whichever words you choose will have an emotional impact on these children. Words *can* hurt and cause further pain, depending on which ones you use here.

I really like Lis' suggestions for that reason:


> Myself, I prefer _plump_ and _slim._


 
And what's fat to one person is pleasantly plump to another. What one person considers skinny is only borderline thin to someone else.

But, no matter what, Lis' two words are nicely put. The kids can get meaner all on their own when they get a little older. If you have a chance to affect them now with kinder examples, I say good for you.

*AngelEyes*


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## cuchuflete

A child who is 4' 9" tall and who weighs 180 lbs. is either extraordinarily muscular, or fat.
_Plump_ would be a thoroughly dishonest label.  "Be nice" is a good motto, but not when it comes to mean "bury unpleasant truth".


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## Teafrog

Lis48 said:


> Myself, I prefer  _plump_ and  _slim._


I like that. I personally would say "*large*" and "*thin*"._
Slim_ is the ideal target, as it conjures up an average healthy weight, imo.


cuchuflete said:


> … Correction and dilemma: According to the popular press, a very large percentage of my fellow citizens are overweight, so I suppose that overweight and average should overlap.


The popular press is correct (for once ). However, if most of the population of any country is obese or overweight, this shouldn't constitute the healthy "average", surely. *If *it is considered as such, what would be placed in the "heavy" category; the mind boggles… and shudders  .
For this reason I prefer to use the term "large", as it can be adapted in people's minds to any country.


johndot said:


> [...] so I suppose that overweight and average should overlap. (cuchuflete, post #16)
> 
> No, the average of the top weight and the bottom weight is right in the middle (even though the number of people on each side of the line may be unequal)! And for this reason, the only accurate, yet neutral, description must be ‘unhealthily larger/bigger/heavier than average’. In other words: fat.


I agree, but the original request was for "a Politically correct word for "fat"", not the blunt truth 


AngelEyes said:


> …Personally, I like the fact you're taking into consideration how whichever words you choose will have an emotional impact on these children. Words *can* hurt and cause further pain, depending on which ones you use here.…
> 
> And what's fat to one person is pleasantly plump to another. What one person considers skinny is only borderline thin to someone else.
> 
> …The kids can get meaner all on their own when they get a little older. If you have a chance to affect them now with kinder examples, I say good for you.


Very well said.


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## AngelEyes

cuchuflete said:


> A child who is 4' 9" tall and who weighs 180 lbs. is either extraordinarily muscular, or fat.
> _Plump_ would be a thoroughly dishonest label. "Be nice" is a good motto, but not when it comes to mean "bury unpleasant truth".


 
I have never more strongly disagreed with anything here as I do in the theme of this thread. 

Kids can find all the ugly words and honest words and most informed words on their own when it comes to *fat*. 

There's a larger lesson here, I think. Teach a child that words have power and strength way beyond their literal meanings. *Plump* is just fine if they won't have a picture in front of them that gets specific. 

In every classroom there is an overweight child - probably many in varying degrees of plumpness and fatness. What we don't need is a word that points out their shortcomings with unadulterated glee. Those heavy kids are in enough emotional and physical pain as it is without telling the whole class, "Yeah. Fat is fat. Call it what it is. Deal with it, you pigs."

If Mario Poe has the power to choose a word here and wants to teach these children there are ways to say things that don't have to cause wounds, then I'm with him all the way.

Kids know plump means fat. They'll also learn they can use plump if they want to in the future. The sky isn't going to fall on them if they think the word *fat* but soften it out loud with something else.

I still agree with Lis.

Sometimes I think teachers miss the boat completely when it comes to lessons of the spirit in concession to lessons of accuracy. 

*AngelEyes*


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## Miss Matty Jenkyns

As one who is not overweight but rather considerably under height, I can say with feeling that there is NO politically correct alternative for "fat." The facts, unfortunately speak for themselves all too clearly.
 
That said, I agree with Loob’s posting that children will call it as they see it and say “fat”, and with liliput as to acceptable terms


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## Loob

I don't have _that_ much to do with 11-year-olds. But I rather suspect they would laugh in my face if I asked them to say "plump" instead of "fat". 

"See that plump dog over there, Mum?" - I don't _think_ so.

I find it odd to think of Chilean 11-year-olds being taught to say something native-speaker 11-year-olds would not say.


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## johndot

“[...] but the original request was for "a Politically correct word for "fat"", not the blunt truth” Teafrog, post #20
 
I am of the opinion that not to tell the truth is politically incorrect.


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## cuchuflete

Imagine the poor little 11 year old who would refer to these Congressmen, Ric Keller (R) of Florida and Jerrold Nadler (D) of New York as "plump".  Their classmates would howl with mocking laughter.

Not so slim Republican: http://images.politico.com/global/070801_rickeller_office.jpg

Hardly starving Democrat:  http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/06/19/ba_nadler01.jpg

Children are not stupid.  If adults treat them as if they were, the kids will perceive the
adults as unworthy of respect, foolish, or both.  _Appallingly obese_ might fit the PC bill.
And that's not even a reference to pork barrel appropriations bills.


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## Mario Poe

Thank you very much, AngelEyes for interpretating so good what my lack of fluency can't express. I think this is more a matter of Pedagogy than of accuracy. Maybe only those who know the classroom and their conflicts understand the enormous power that a simple word or a lesson could have on those who are still growing and evolving.

By the way.. I'm a girl.


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## Mario Poe

I really don't understand why being politically correct means to be a liar. Maybe it's a culture thing... for us, latins, to be politically correct still means "not being rude".


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## xqby

I don't see how teaching children inaccurate sets of antonyms is going to stop them from being jerks. When I learned that "gordo" meant "fat" in Spanish class I didn't suddenly go out and mock the obese.



Mario Poe said:


> I really don't understand why being politically correct means to be a liar. Maybe it's a culture thing... for us, latins, to be politically correct still means "not being rude".


 
"Fat" isn't profanity, no matter how much fat people want it to be. It's not a rude word unless used to mock someone, but with that view of things, so are things like "hairy" and "greasy."


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## Loob

Hi again lady Mario

I'm finding it really hard to see your and AngelEyes' point in the context of teaching English as a second language.

I was a fairly hefty 11-year-old when I started learning French. Whether I and my fellow-pupils learnt the French equivalent of "fat" or of "pleasantly plump" would have made absolutely no difference to whether I was teased or not.



EDIT: I think xqby has just made the same point


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## AngelEyes

cuchuflete said:


> Not so slim Republican: http://images.politico.com/global/070801_rickeller_office.jpg
> 
> Hardly starving Democrat: http://www.sfgate.com/c/pictures/2006/06/19/ba_nadler01.jpg


 
Even with these adult men, you can teach children there is an alternative word to fat: *portly*.

Maybe some people don't notice the judgment that comes along with using the word *fat*. But I think a lot of people use the word *fat* precisely because they _know_ it's one of the most hurtful things you can call a person in our appearance-obsessed society. And then they say, "Well, I'm just calling it like I see it." Right. They're just being a bully in many instances.

Our society is saturated with the negative judgments of people who are considered *fat*. To some impressionable girls and women, (and some men, too) there's nothing worse, no greater insult, than to be called *fat*.

I'm still sticking to my original answer: for 11 year-olds, they need to see there are alternatives to the easy-grab word for *fat*. 

Mario...you're a great teacher, lady.

*AngelEyes*


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## Arrius

*Equatorially challenged ?   Deficient girth control?*


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## Mario Poe

xqby said:


> I don't see how teaching children inaccurate sets of antonyms is going to stop them from being jerks. When I learned that "gordo" meant "fat" in Spanish class I didn't suddenly go out and mock the obese.
> 
> 
> "Fat" isn't profanity, no matter how much fat people want it to be. It's not a rude word unless used to mock someone, but with that view of things, so are things like "hairy" and "greasy."


 

My intention is not to teach (by including the word in the book) something innacurate. That's why I made the question in the first place.. because despite my languge knowledge, I really don't know if "fat" is offensive, or has became offensive during the last years. "Gordo", for example, is a word I wouldn't teach a native student to describe people. It's rude. Pigs are "gordos", cows are "gordas", but people don't. There are a lot of other spanish words, wich are not innacurate, but more proper to talk about human fatness.


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## cuchuflete

AngelEyes said:


> ...for 11 year-olds, they need to see there are alternatives to the easy-grab word for *fat*.



It would be good pedagogy to teach the 11 year-olds the entire list, pointing out the distinctions and gradations.  An obese, corpulent politician may be labelled adipose, or 'as well-larded as his spending bills.'  He is not plump.  The definition of portly is,  (let's all suck in our respective guts now...)






> –adjective  1.having too much flabby tissue; corpulent; obese: *a fat person.*


 _Random House Unabridged Dictionary_


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## Loob

Mario Poe said:


> My intention is not to teach (by including the word in the book) something innacurate. That's why I made the question in the first place.. because despite my languge knowledge, I really don't know if "fat" is offensive, or has became offensive during the last years. "Gordo", for example, is a word I wouldn't teach a native student to describe people. It's rude. Pigs are "gordos", cows are "gordas", but people don't. There are a lot of other spanish words, wich are not innacurate, but more proper to talk about human fatness.


Neat re-statement of the question, Mario

My answer is no, the word _fat_ hasn't become offensive in recent years.  Unlike, say, _nigger_ or _spastic._

Fatness has become a more sensitive issue.  But that's a different thing.


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## gasman

Isn't everyone discussing "pathological obesity", which is harmful to health? So why can't a straightforward term be used to say so?


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## johndot

If you taunt someone by saying he’s fat, you’re being unkind. If you describe someone as being fat, you’re being factual.

Is one of these ‘politically correct’, or neither?

Should an artist be disallowed from painting a portrait of a person who resembles Henry VIII ?

Would that be ‘politically correct’?

If another word is used in place of ‘fat’ and ‘fat’ becomes obsolete, the original meaning of the new word will then be corrupt.

Would that be right?

Children should be taught ‘not-being-hurtful’ not pretentious rhetoric.

Having said all that, there is a straightforward solution: ‘fat’ describes (amongst other things) a person’s condition—so if you wish to be factual and refer only to his physical size then why not do as clothing manufacturers have been doing for ages and mark everyone as being either Large, XL or XXL. This way, the meatiest wrestler will be in the same boat (or T-shirt) as the grossest couch potato.


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## cuchuflete

johndot said:


> If you taunt someone by saying he’s fat, you’re being unkind. If you describe someone as being fat, you’re being factual.


Well said.  Nobody here is advocating hurting the feelings of fat people by calling them
names.  In conversation with a fat person, there is no need to refer to their bulk unless they specifically ask if you consider them to be overly large.  In that case, a child should learn to be truthful without choosing the most offensive words.  That said, in describing a
person who is fat, not addressing that person, there is no good reason to select an obscure term when we have a simple word that does the job honestly and accurately.

The same is true of skinny people.  To their face you may call them "very slim" or something of the kind.  If they ask you if they look too thin, you might reply, "You probably wouldn't do yourself any harm by adding a few pounds."  That's apt to be acceptable, while "You are nothing but skin and bones. You look like you haven't had a decent meal in months" is likely to be hurtful. 

A fat person may be large, but not all large people are fat. Plump is a valid term for a person who has a rounded shape, but if it is used as a euphemism to describe a fat person, that is simply dishonest and innaccurate.  

Teach children to be considerate of the feelings of others.  Also teach them to be honest.  The two objectives need not be in conflict.


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## AngelEyes

> ...a child should learn to be truthful without choosing the most offensive words...Teach children to be considerate of the feelings of others.


 
And how is a child to learn this, if not exposed to alternative words by people like Mario Poe?

I bet most 11 year-old kids don't even know what *portly* is.





> Also teach them to be honest.


 
Giving them only the word *fat* to work with isn't going to accomplish this.

And honesty is relative.

Not once in all the years I've written or recorded radio commercials, have I ever considered selling a product by telling the bare truth.

I've used words like:

Full-figured woman
Portly man
Your husky student
For the athletic build...

But never once has a client - who says they're representing their product in a bright, clear light - ever asked me to tell it like it really is:

_...this is the perfect item for all you fat asses out there..._

Words have herculean power.

*AngelEyes*


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## Loob

AngelEyes, if you're arguing that second-language learners should be taught "fat" *and* alternatives to it, then I think no-one would disagree with you.  I certainly wouldn't


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## liliput

I second Loob's post. In fact, I believe cuchuflete already agreed that it's a good idea to teach children all the alternatives and appropriate usage.

Fat and thin are basic, neutral adjectives which may be used in a negative way. I would say it's essential for learners of the language to learn them. The best you can do is encourage them to use them politely and appropriately.


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## AngelEyes

> AngelEyes, if you're arguing that second-language learners should be taught "fat" *and* alternatives to it, then I think no-one would disagree with you. I certainly wouldn't


 


> I second Loob's post.


 
Hi Lubie and liliput,

First of all, if my tone has turned argumentative, that's not my intention.

My intention, from the very beginning, was in response to post #1. I applaud the fact that Mario wanted alternative words that might not be at the top of the list. 

That's exactly what my position has been from the first.

What surprises me the most in this discussion is that so many don't see *fat* as an extremely negative word. I don't want to get rid of it. I like the fact that Mario Poe wanted to get creative with it.

*AngelEyes*


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## liliput

AngelEyes said:


> Hi Lubie and liliput,
> 
> First of all, if my tone has turned argumentative, that's not my intention.
> 
> My intention, from the very beginning, was in response to post #1. I applaud the fact that Mario wanted alternative words that might not be at the top of the list.
> 
> That's exactly what my position has been from the first.
> 
> What surprises me the most in this discussion is that so many don't see *fat* as an extremely negative word. I don't want to get rid of it. I like the fact that Mario Poe wanted to get creative with it.
> 
> *AngelEyes*


 
Only argumentative in the sense that you are arguing your point, and there's nothing wrong with that. I certainly don't have the impression that you're arguing for the sheer sake of it.

I think we're all agreed that teaching some alternatives is a good idea. My point is that _thin_ and _fat _are simple, fundamental adjectives that should be among the first words learnt by language learners - I wouldn't teach words like _portly_ or _corpulent_ before familiarizing students with _fat_.

The condition of being fat may be considered positive or negative but I would saythe word_ fat_ is purely descriptive. In a culture where a lot of body fat is considered a bad thing, any alternative with the same meaning will carry the same negative connotation.


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## Nunty

The well-known author of children's books Judy Bloom wrote a "children's classic" about a fat child who is bullied at school. It's called _Blubber_. If you can get hold of a copy, you might get some ideas about appropriate and inappropriate language used by schoolchildren to refer to fat people.

P.S. I am a fat person and I like plain speaking.


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## Meeracat

Forgive me if I cross language and cultural forums here. 

I am assuming that Ms Mario Poe is teaching Chilean children, or have I missed something (what's ESL?)? I am in almost daily correspondence with a Chilean who signs himself _'El Gordo'_ - The fat one. His wife is known to everyone as _'La Flaca'_ The thin one. The use of 'fat' and 'thin' in Chilean spanish as nicknames and affectionate terms displays a certain lack of prejuidice and judgmentalism that some see in the english word 'fat'. 

As Wittgenstein said (I think); "_The meaning of a word is the use it is put to in a language game_". I think the fat and thin game in Chile is slightly different. My advice: go with 'fat'.


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## Loob

AngelEyes said:


> I like the fact that Mario Poe wanted to get creative with it.


I suspect we understood Mario's question slightly differently.  I saw her as asking if it was acceptable to teach second-language learners the word "fat".  I think we are all agreed that it is


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## vicky1027

Wow...after reading alll these posts, I personally think, Mario Poe is right, a pig is "fat", a person is "heavy" or "big". And yes, I'm being politically correct.

To Meeracat, it's fine for people to call themselves "the fat one", "the thin one" that's their choice. But, when teaching children, unfortunately in this case there is a lot of gray area.

So, for whatever it is worth, I would suggest "fat" for the animal and "heavy" or whatever term you choose for the person.

Good Luck!

Vicky


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## Meeracat

vicky1027 said:


> . . . it's fine for people to call themselves "the fat one", "the thin one" that's their choice. But, when teaching children, unfortunately in this case there is a lot of gray area.


 
Of course it is difficult to teach children. I wouldn't know where to begin. The point I was making is that in Chile this kind of nickname is usually not the choice of the person but rather given (at least when I was around those parts a century ago). However, in my experience it is meant affectionately, something that is increasingly difficult in the english speaking contexts like the USA and UK where the term 'fat' has taken on all kinds of pathological meaning.


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## Mario Poe

Meeracat said:


> Of course it is difficult to teach children. I wouldn't know where to begin. The point I was making is that in Chile this kind of nickname is usually not the choice of the person but rather given (at least when I was around those parts a century ago). However, in my experience it is meant affectionately, something that is increasingly difficult in the english speaking contexts like the USA and UK where the term 'fat' has taken on all kinds of pathological meaning.


 
Dear Meeracat:

Thanks for bringing out the topic of the nicknames in Chile. Yes, there are a lot of people that are call "Gordos" o "Gorditos" o "Guatones". All of those words are not familiar, but condescending and there is definetily a patronizing way about them. Chilean people love to point and mock at others' differences, especially when they are phisical. So, chileans call people "gordos", "feos" (ugly), "chicos" (short) in a "friendly" way, when, what they really mean is to tease them. And, off corse, people accept to be called like that, because is better to be part of the joke than becoming a victim.

I'm sorry, but that's the plain truth of our culture. So, we are not affecionate, but some sort of friendly bullies.


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## vicky1027

Meeracat said:


> Of course it is difficult to teach children. I wouldn't know where to begin. The point I was making is that in Chile this kind of nickname is usually not the choice of the person but rather given (at least when I was around those parts a century ago). However, in my experience it is meant affectionately, something that is increasingly difficult in the english speaking contexts like the USA and UK where the term 'fat' has taken on all kinds of pathological meaning.


  "A century ago"? I don't think so...!

But really, don't you agree that you cannot always translate "words...sentences" literally? What works in Spanish, Italian..etc...may not have the same meaning in English. So when you say "el gordo" in english it translates to "the fat one", which has a negative connotation.

Am I wrong?

Vicky


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## Meeracat

vicky1027 said:


> "A century ago"? I don't think so...!
> 
> But really, don't you agree that you cannot always translate "words...sentences" literally? What works in Spanish, Italian..etc...may not have the same meaning in English. So when you say "el gordo" in english it translates to "the fat one", which has a negative connotation.
> 
> Am I wrong?
> 
> Vicky


No you are not wrong. However, in this case I thought that the readers of the english phrase were Chileans so would understand it differently than in an english speaking context. However, none of that matters now because I have been comprehensively holed below the waterline by Mario Poe's excellent anthropology.


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## garual

Meeracat said:


> Forgive me if I cross language and cultural forums here.
> 
> I am assuming that Ms Mario Poe is teaching Chilean children, or have I missed something *(what's ESL?)?* As Wittgenstein said (I think); "_The meaning of a word is the use it is put to in a language game_". I think the fat and thin game in Chile is slightly different. My advice: go with 'fat'.


 
*ESL*= English as a Second Language

http://a4esl.org/


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## garual

Nun-Translator said:


> The well-known author of children's books Judy Bloom wrote a "children's classic" about a fat child who is bullied at school. It's called _Blubber_. If you can get hold of a copy, you might get some ideas about appropriate and inappropriate language used by schoolchildren to refer to fat people.
> 
> P.S. I am a fat person and I like plain speaking.


 
I think this is a great suggestion.

Also, check:
http://www.synonym.com/synonyms/fat/
http://www.synonym.com/definition/fat/


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## liliput

Here is a scenario:
A: "I really like that guy"
B: "Which guy?"
A "The fat one, over there"

In my opinion A is not being offensive, he is simply giving an accurate description of the person's most obvious distinguishing feature. Now, if A knows that the fat guy is sensitive about his weight and also knows that the fat guy can hear him it's probable that he will use a euphemism like "big" or "chunky".

The word "fat" is not offensive in itself, but people may take offence if they hear it used to describe them. So, my conclusion is that the children should be taught the word fat as the most common adjective to describe someone with a lot of body fat but also that people may be offended by it if they hear it being used to describe them.

What should really be avoided are nicknames like "fatso", "lard-ass", "Jabba", "fat bastard", etc.

How would those who claim to be fat consider the adjective "chunky"?


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## Thomas Tompion

This discussion has reminded me of the Australian test bowler, who was famous for sledging (being rude to a batsman to put him off his stroke - unfortunately this is common practice in top-class cricket matches, particularly in Australia). The bowler said to the batsman: My God, you're fat! You're so fat I'm surprised you're able to bat at all. The batsman certainly thought that the intent here was to hurt his feelings, for he replied: That's because every time I sleep with your wife she gives me a biscuit.


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## panjandrum

I still recall with some pain being described as portly when I was 13.

It was very clear to me that my chubbiness was of such dimension that the salesman couldn't bear to speak of it, hence he chose this strange word that I have never before or since heard used in the real world.  And he used it for me.  What extreme humiliation.  I never forgave him, and never went near the shop again.

Kids know when they are being snowed.  For goodness sake don't try to lie to them.

There is no politically correct word for fat.
There are people who are scared to be honest.
In showing that they are scared to be honest, they emphasise to the unfortunate noun who is modified by their apparently euphemistic adjective just how unacceptable and unspeakable is their condition.


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## AngelEyes

Hey Panj,

If that guy had said you were a *solidly*-*built* young man, would that have been a different experience for you, do you think?

The opposite of blatantly honest isn't always a total lie and a load of BS. Sometimes it's common courtesy and fine character.

That salesman's problem is that he used that word in reference to a child - which I would never do! The dummy was a clumsy person. Or maybe he figured if he smirked and pointed and muttered *fat*, he'd lose a sale. 

The point is, there are other words to use in place of fat - and it's never a bad idea to equip kids with the whole lot of them. This has been my point all along here.

It's not some evil cover-up to teach them there are words that can be interchanged when the situation calls for it.

And just for the record - there's absolutely nothing portly about you now!


*AngelEyes*

_Note to TT: Very funny._


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## cuchuflete

Teach children to say portly or adipose or chunky or euphem-fat-alistic to describe a 
classmate who looks like a sumo wrestler.  They will come to understand and use those words exactly as they would use fat, had it been taught to them.  The thought process will be the same, the meaning will be the same, and the young ones will understand the words to be descriptive or insulting depending on how they are used, and to whom.

Politically correct may mean 'kind' in Chilean Spanish.  In my experience of it in AE, it
means evasive, denatured, and ineffective.  The kindly motivations are undone by the speakers and listeners, who are not easily hoodwinked or bamboozled by lovely labels placed on unpleasant facts.  

Teach children that fat means having notable amounts of excess flabby body tissue, that obese is a technical term with essentially the same meaning, that portly and corpulent are little used words that mean fat, that plump is somewhere between fat and not fat, etc.



Teach them not to say things that will cause the listener pain or discomfort.  Teach them to be truthful.


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## AngelEyes

chuchu,

If your eight-year-old granddaughter (who was, let's say, 15 pounds overweight for her build and age) came to you and said, "Grandpa, am I fat?"

Would you actually tell her, "Yes, honey. You're fat." 

*AngelEyes*


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## prankstare

Mario Poe said:


> Hi! I'm working on an english text book for ESL students. There's a unit wich describes physical characteristics and personality. When it comes to weight... what would be a politically correct word for "fat" and "thin"? Those words are already suggested in the book, but I don´t think they are proper nice words to teach small children...
> 
> Native advice would be awesome!!
> 
> Thanks in advance...




Well, I've heard "butterball" in an American movie once, which is surely referring to a fat person.

I'm not sure if that's formal or not though.


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## cuchuflete

Arrius said:


> For what used to be the ideal as regards ladies with a generous amount of adipose tissue in the Renascimento, and in Germany possibly still, Aldous Huxley has the delightful epithet *pneumatic*, which sounds at once substantial and  erotic, whilst for_ broad in the beam_ or _fat ass_ he uses *steatopygous*, which falls trippingly off the tongue like music.



Those may be useful for a trivia contest, but what have they got to do with a "politically correct" way of expressing anything, as taught to young children?  Sorry to be so thoroughly politically incorrect, but they are not useful, lack merit, and are generally far from helpful as replies to the question in the first post.  Amusing?  Somewhat.

In AE, pneumatic evokes images of inflatable things, or the Michelin Man, while steatopygous would lead most adults to guess that the child is speaking of a dinosaur.


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## Wilma_Sweden

Goodness!

Having read through this whole thread I've come to two conclusions:

1) I can reasonably safely trust my favourite dictionary (Longman) to choose the most appropriate term (see 'word usage' at the bottom of the linked page about fat (adjective).

2) I would ask the editor of said book to omit references to body mass for humans. If the kids need to learn the words 'fat' and 'thin', pictures of animals will do just as well. A fat cat and a thin cat are much more neutral. This is assuming the book is for ages 7-12...

/Wilma


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## Orange Blossom

In all this discussion, I have not seen another word on the spectrum of skinny to fat.  That is the word _slender_.

Skinny generally refers to someone who is bordering on or is underweight.  It may also refer to someone who is naturally much thinner than most people.

Slender and slim mean pretty much the same thing.

I don't think I saw _corpulent_ either, another synonym for obese, fat, and portly.

My take on this discussion:  Teach the children the various words and what physical characteristics they describe.  Also, teach the children to be polite and respectful.  If kids are rude to other people, it wouldn't matter what words they are using.  It isn't the word itself that is rude, it is how it is used.

People are too often mean and cruel to each other, whether adult or children.

Someone saying to another _Oh, look how fat he is. _is rude and hurtful behavior whether the person described can hear or not.

Someone going out of their way to speak to another simply to say: _You shouldn't wear shorts.  You are ugly._  is hurtful even though the person didn't say the listener was fat, which is what she really meant.  Incidentally, the speaker was fat herself though wearing a dress.

Orange Blossom


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## Thomas Tompion

I've had a good look and I've not seen the word which people often use to describe me, svelte. The fact remains that most words describing the figure carry emotive force, it's almost always impertinent to make personal comments to people's faces, and there is no politically correct way of saying that someone is fat.


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## MikeLynn

It's hard to tell the difference between being PC and _nice_. How about CHUBBY and TRIM just to be kind and, "almost", accurate?


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## MikeLynn

... and then, on the second thought, I might use something like _a bit_ or _rather_ to make it _a little bit_ less harsh  Every now and then, it's anything, but easy, to be honest and not offensive-in any language. It really depends on who you're talking to and what exactly the situation is like-you might be a doctor really worried about the child's health or a friend who simply thinks the kid would be a lot better of having lost some weight.


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## chajadan

To answer the original question, as a native speaker, I find "thin" to be a proper term that is in no way politically incorrect. As for "fat", I would generally never refer to another human being as fat. I find that those who use the word fat to refer to someone are insensitive, whether the person being described is within earshot or not. Weight, in the U.S.A., is a touchy subject, so decent euphemisms are hard to come by and even they should be used with care for the feelings of others. When I find it necessary to describe someone as on the heavier side, I learned to use the word "heavyset". It it a slightly more technical term that points out a distinguishing feature without being rude -- that is the intention at any rate.

--charlie


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