# to come



## Frank06

Hi,

I was wondering about the verb 'to come', in the meaning of moving to a certain direction.
If I understood well, there are two (three, four) possible meanings:
(a) moving towards the speaker;
(b) moving towards the interlocutor;
(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker *will *be (but isn't yet);
(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor *will *be (but isn't yet).

In English this can all be expressed by the verb 'to come' (as in Dutch, 'komen'). If I'm not wrong, also French 'venir' can be used in the four occasions.

I was wondering how this is expressed in other languages, I mean, which verb(s) is (are) used to express those 2/4 meanings. I am not really wondering about modes or tenses, but only about the lexical item, word itself, the infinitve, let's say.

Are there languages which do require several verbs to express the meanings (a) to (b)?

Thanks in advance.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## linguist786

In *Urdu/Hindi & Gujarati*, it's the same word for all of them. 
(I'm actually not sure if I understand your question correctly, but I'm sure they're the same word):

*URDU:* آنا (aanaa)
*HINDI:* आना (aanaa)
*GUJARATI:* આવું (aavu)


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## Whodunit

I think it always "kommen" in German, too. But, wait: I don't really understand your question. Are you referring to meanings like "to get," "to come," and "to arrive?" I think they all can mean "komen" in Dutch.


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## robbie_SWE

In Romanian it's *"a veni"* (the same as the French word _venir_) and it can be used for all the presented cases. In Swedish, I would say that *"att komma"* is the equivalent. It is used in the same way as in German and English. 

 robbie


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## panjabigator

*Panjabi*
to come: aauNaa ਆਉਣਾ
to go: jaaNaa ਜਾਣਾ


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## Chazzwozzer

*(a) moving towards the speaker;
*"Gel_mek_"(_to_ come) is used.*
(b) moving towards the interlocutor;*
"Gel_mek_"(_to_ come) is used.
* (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);*
Normally, "gel_mek_"(_to_ come) is not used unless interlocutor is there. We say "git_mek_"(_to_ go) instead.
* (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).*
"Gel_mek_"(_to_ come) is used.


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## jazyk

If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Portuguese:

*(a) moving towards the speaker;
*vir (to come)
*(b) moving towards the interlocutor;*
ir (to go)
*(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);*
ir (to go)
*(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).*
ir (to go)


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## Thomas F. O'Gara

Spanish follows suit with Portuguese, as in most, but not all, things. "Venir" means to move toward the speaker. "Ir" is for movement toward the interlocutor, and to where the speaker or interlocutor will be. Very confusing for English speakers, and I presume speakers of other languages, based on what I see here. What do you say when somebody rings your doorbell? In Spanish - "Voy" - i.e., "I'm going."

In the case of Russian (and I think most Slavic languages) the issue is a bit more complicated. The base verb ходить/идти means both "to come" and "to go." You distinguish coming and going by prefixes added to the verb, which imply various degrees of arriving, going up to, going away from, etc. Russian verbs tend to pack a considerable amount of information into any given form. The unprefixed forms can indicate either coming or going - Иди сюда = come here; Иди туда = go over there. The generic perfective form for the base verb is пойти, but in the absence of any specifying features in the sentence this is generally understood to mean "to go", i.e., to move toward the interlocutor, or where he will be.

Which actually points out that the question isn't that simple, even in other languages. we may say "I'm coming" to a doorbell, but "I went to the door" when the action moves to the past.

I realize that you're trying to avoid modes or tenses, but in Russian anyway there is no simple lexical item.


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## jazyk

> What do you say when somebody rings your doorbell? In Spanish - "Voy" - i.e., "I'm going."


We use _ir_ as well: Já vou.


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## cochagua

Frank06 said:
			
		

> In Spanish:
> *(a) moving towards the speaker;*
> venir
> *(b) moving towards the interlocutor;*
> ir
> *(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);*
> ir /venir
> *(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).*
> ir


We also have a verb to say "come back" "volver"


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## jazyk

> If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Portuguese:
> 
> *(a) moving towards the speaker;
> *vir (to come)
> *(b) moving towards the interlocutor;*
> ir (to go)
> *(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);*
> ir (to go)
> *(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).*
> ir (to go)


I'm here to disprove myself  
a) ir (to go)
b)vir (to come)
c) ir (to go)
d) ir (to go)

Sorry, this is due to my nonexistent sense of direction (I'm serious, I get lost in my own town).  I'd still like another Portuguese speaker to check this for me, just in case.


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## Vanda

Jazyk, that's it. You are HERE.  ,  now turn right ... 

Nothing wrong with your verbs.
a) ir (to go) - Vou a sua casa . (go)
b)vir (to come)- Venha a minha casa. (come)
c) ir (to go) - Estou indo/vou para o lugar combinado. (go)
d) ir (to go) -  same as above.


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## Outsider

I think you are mistaken about French, Frank.



			
				Frank06 said:
			
		

> (a) moving towards the speaker;


_Venir._



			
				Frank06 said:
			
		

> (b) moving towards the interlocutor;


_Aller._ (Unless the speaker and the interlocutor are together, in which case you can obviously use _venir_, as well). Contrast the two sentences:

_Il peut venir chez moi._
He can come to my house.

_Il peut aller chez toi._
He can come/go to your house.



			
				Frank06 said:
			
		

> (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker *will *be (but isn't yet);
> (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor *will *be (but isn't yet).


This is more delicate. If the place where the speaker/interlocutor will be is perceived as "over here", then _venir_. If it's perceived as "over there", then _aller_. I'd say that it depends on whether the place where the speaker/interlocutor will be is closer to the place where he currently is, or to the place where his interlocutor currently is.

I think this applies to all Romance languages. We clearly distinguish "coming" from "going", whereas English (and perhaps other Germanic languages, as well?) tend to blend the two concepts.


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## ronanpoirier

Outisder said:
			
		

> I think this applies to all Romance languages.


 
My father says that Italians say for example (in Portuguese):
"I come to your house" (_Eu venho na/à tua casa_.) instead of "I go to your house" (_Eu vou na/à tua casa.)_. If he's right, then Italian doesn't follow that "rule".


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## Flaminius

If I understand it correctly, I think it would be in Japanese:

*(a) moving towards the speaker;*
kuru (to come)

*(b) moving towards the interlocutor;*
yuku/iku (to go)

*(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet);*
kuru (to come)

*(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet).*
yuku/iku (to go)


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## chaya

IN FRENCH  I have often heard the response, when ringing the door bell <j'arrive>  =  I'm coming.


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## betulina

Hi,

I'll use examples to show it in Catalan, just in case I didn't understand the question right.

(a) moving towards the speaker: 
"come to my house" -- _vine a casa meva_ (verb *venir* - to come)

(b) moving towards the interlocutor:
"I'll come to your house" -- _vindré a casa teva_ (verb *venir* - to come)

(c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker *will *be (but isn't yet): 
In this case I'll explain the situation I understand: the speaker will be at the beach tomorrow at 9 o'clock and asks the interlocutor to go: "will you come?" -- _vindràs?_ (verb *venir* - to come)

(d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor *will *be (but isn't yet):
If the interlocutor is the one who will be at the beach at 9.00, the speaker says: "I'll come" -- _vindré_ (verb *venir* - to come)


As far as I know (there might be influences), in Spanish is _(a)_ and _(c)_ *venir *(to come) and _(b)_ and _(d)_ *ir* (to go).

If I'm misunderstanding situations, please let me know!


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## Outsider

chaya said:


> IN FRENCH  I have often heard the response, when ringing the door bell <j'arrive>  =  I'm coming.


Literally speaking, though, that's a different verb: _arriver_ = "to arrive".


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## Frank06

Hi all,

I involuntary managed to unsubscribe myself from this thread, I think. Still don't know what I did wrong.
I wanted to thank everybody so far for their replies to my (indeed) rather vague and unclear question! The main problem was indeed the usage of the verbs meaning 'to go' and 'to come' (or equivalents).

Groetjes,

Frank


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## bb3ca201

For us Gaels, it's easy -- we use "a' tighinn". (It's an irregular verb in Gaelic, too...so the forms differ depending on tense)

I'm coming - tha mi a' tighinn


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## franz rod

> "I come to your house" (_Eu venho na/à tua casa_.) instead of "I go to your house" (_Eu vou na/à tua casa.)_. If he's right, then Italian doesn't follow that "rule".



It's quite different:
if the other person is in his house:  Vengo a casa tua (I come..)
if not: Vado a casa tua  (I go)


In Italian:
go: andare, muoversi, avanzare, recarsi, spostarsi
go up: avvicinarsi
come: venire, arrivare, giungere


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## Outsider

I stand corrected.


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## apmoy70

Greek:

Moving towards the speaker:
*«Έρχομαι»* [ˈer.xɔ.me] < Classical deponent v. *«ἔρχομαι» érkʰŏmai̯* --> _to come_, but also occasionally _to go, travel_ (PIE *h₁er-/h₁ergʰ- _to move, go_ cf Hitt. arške- _to reach repeatedly, make incursions_, Skt. ऋच्छति (r̥cchati), _to move, reach, arrive at_).

Moving towards the interlocutor:
Idem.

Moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker will be (but isn't yet):
*«Πηγαίνω»* [piˈʝe.nɔ] or *«πάω»* [ˈpa.ɔ] --> _to go, leave, depart_.
*«Πηγαίνω»* < Byz. Gr. *«ὑπαγαίνω» ypagaí̯nō* < Classical v.*«ὑπάγω» hŭpágō* > MoGr colloq. *«πάω»*.
The modern meaning of the verb (leave, go) is already present in Koine: 





> (John 16:5) Nῦν δὲ ὑπάγω πρὸς τὸν πέμψαντά με, καὶ οὐδεὶς ἐξ ὑμῶν ἐρωτᾷ με, ποῦ ὑπάγεις; - But now I go away to Him who sent Me, and none of you asks Me, ‘Where are You going?’ (NKJV)



Moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor will be (but isn't yet):
*«Πηγαίνω/πάω»*.


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## merquiades

Frank06 said:


> Hi,
> 
> I was wondering about the verb 'to come', in the meaning of moving to a certain direction.
> If I understood well, there are two (three, four) possible meanings:
> (a) moving towards the speaker;
> (b) moving towards the interlocutor;
> (c) moving to a place, towards a location where the speaker *will *be (but isn't yet);
> (d) moving towards a place, towards a location where the interlocutor *will *be (but isn't yet).



A tad complicated. 3 comes and 1 go in my English.
A.  Come over here.  Can you come see me now?
B.  I'm coming over there. I'm coming to see you now.
     I'm coming (to open the door, answer the phone). Just let me finish what I'm         doing first.
C.  Can you come over to Tom's tonight? I'll be there at 9pm.
      You can come to the theater this evening. We'll be in the back row.
D.  I'll go over there at 9pm. What time are you going? 
      Let's meet and go to the theater later. The movie is at 9pm.


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