# Speak of the sun, and it will appear.



## Andrew___

May I ask how we could say:

"Speak of the sun, and it will appear!"

Can I say:

*أذكر الشمس، و**الشمس **يظهر*
(udhkur as-shams, wa as-shams yaTHhur)

* (I discovered this Norwegian expression here, and it seems that the Norwegians are the only culture which expresses this idiom in a positive way)  
*


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## Alawi

I don't know if I understood the meaning but I can suggest:

حديث الشمس وسيظهر

which means the fact is clear as sun is, and it will apear.


in Arabic we say some thing like this:

واضحة وضوح الشمس



by the way  sun (ashams) is feminin. تظهر
the first suggestion I provided, the verb is related to (hadith>Mesc.

(the fact) is as obvious as sun


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## Andrew___

Thank you for your suggestions.

In fact I was trying to find an alternative to:
أذكر الديب وهيّء\حضّر\جهّز القضيب

The idea is that if you speak of a positive thing, it will appear or occur.


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## djara

If the meaning is "speak of the devil" then in Tunisian we say 
maa tmout (ymout) kaan 3laa 3okkaaz ما تموت (يموت) كان على عكاز You (he) will only die on a cane. The "devil" who appears suddenly while you're talking about him/her is supposed to die at a very old age, hence the cane


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## be.010

Hi! There are many colloquial "proverbs" of the same meaning, which are common among many dialects with some variation:
"ذكرنا القط قام نط" (a little bit negative, or just neutral)
"اذكر الديب وهير القضيب" (negative)
*"ابن الحلال عند ذكره بيبان" (This is a positive one!)*
I am not quite sure about an MSA version of the proverb...
By the way الشمس in Arabic is feminine...


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## Andrew___

Thanks guys. 

I think I will stick to *أذكر الشمس، و**الشمس **يظهر and add "حسب المثل النرويجي" to avoid confusion.
*


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## clevermizo

I'm a little confused. The wiki link says that the Norwegian expression means "Speak of the sun and it shines" not "and the sun appears." 

If we wanted to translate it why wouldn't we just use أشرق? I.e.:

أذكر الشمس فهي تشرق؟

Anyway, no matter what you want to do, الشمس is still feminine as has been noted so if you use ظهر it should be تظهر.



be.010 said:


> *"ابن الحلال عند ذكره بيبان" (This is a positive one!)*



 هون الكلمة هي [zikr] ولا [zakar]??


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## eric489

Well in Norwegian we say  "Speak of the sun and it shines" as mentionned in the Wiki link.

And just as Andrew_ pinpointed, the meaning is fairly positive, if you talk about positive things, they will happen.

Whereas in French, we see it exactly as in English. ( Meaning talking about a person which then interrups the conversation )

" Quand on parle du loup, on en voit la queue " => Talk about the wolf and you (can) see his tail. 

For the previously posted Arabic translation, I have no idea, altought you have to consider, Andrew that the sun is feminine ( because it goes in pair with the moon, same for earth and sky, heaven and hell,...)

One last thing : The Arabic letters are way too small to be distinguised or at least red easily for a beginner like me, would be great if we would opt for a higher case size when posting a transcription.


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## WadiH

If you're thinking of a rough equivalent of the expression "speak of the devil," then Arabic also has expressions that describe the same situation in a positive light.

For example, الطيب عند ذكره (_e66ayyib 3ind thikrah)_.


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## Andrew___

eric489 said:


> One last thing : The Arabic letters are way too small to be distinguised or at least red easily for a beginner like me, would be great if we would opt for a higher case size when posting a transcription.



Great idea!   I know that larger size font really helps beginners.  I will try to do this in the future.


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## Andrew___

Many thanks everyone.



clevermizo said:


> I'm a little confused. The wiki link says that the Norwegian expression means "Speak of the sun and it shines" not "and the sun appears."
> 
> If we wanted to translate it why wouldn't we just use أشرق? I.e.:
> 
> أذكر الشمس فهي تشرق؟
> 
> Anyway, no matter what you want to do, الشمس is still feminine as has been noted so if you use ظهر it should be تظهر.
> 
> 
> هون الكلمة هي [zikr] ولا [zakar]??


 
Yes, I forgot that the proverb says "shines".

Do I pronounce تشرق as tushriqu?  It seems to be a Form IV verb, correct?  Although I thought Form IV verbs are transitive, but this seems intransitive.  I would be grateful if someone could shed some light on this point.


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## be.010

clevermizo said:


> هون الكلمة هي [zikr] ولا [zakar]??


 dhikr(ihi), or zəkro in the Levant


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## Rafael Nadal

Hello every body,
I think, after I read all the posts, it means:
*تفاءلوا بالخير تجدوه*


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## Rafael Nadal

I want to say to Andrew that if you say in Arabic:
اذكر الشمش والشمش تظهر
It doesn't give any sense at all and nobody will understand you...Be careful.


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## clevermizo

Andrew___ said:


> Do I pronounce تشرق as tushriqu?  It seems to be a Form IV verb, correct?  Although I thought Form IV verbs are transitive, but this seems intransitive.  I would be grateful if someone could shed some light on this point.



Well yeah. And تفعّل should be intransitive or reflexive, but تعلّم is transitive. Those are just generalizations, but verb by verb, obviously there will be differences.


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## clevermizo

be.010 said:


> dhikr(ihi), or zəkro in the Levant



That's what I thought. The other way would be a strange saying. Thanks


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## eric489

So in the end, can anyone just post the plain, understandable idiom in fusha ? ( no dialect )

Because there's been many attemps here, but doesn't seem like we agree on a clear one.


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## Andrew___

Eric, I would suggest:
*
أذكر الذئب وحضّر القضيب
*
What do people think?  I imagine that this would not sound as idiomatic as the colloquial equivalents, but this is frequently the case with MSA.

Andrew


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## eric489

*أذكر الذئب وحضّر القضيب*

My litteral translation attempt : Remember the wolf, and he will present al qadiib ?

Have no idea for the last word. :/


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## Andrew___

It means "Mention the wolf, and fetch the rod/stick".


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## be.010

Rafael Nadal said:


> Hello every body,
> I think, after I read all the posts, it means:
> *تفاءلوا بالخير تجدوه*


 
I agree with this one, it's fuS7a...


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