# Me gustas / I like ...



## ulrika

We are faced with the task of translating a note sent by a boy to a girl, in Spanish. In this note, the boy tells the girl:

_"En la fiesta te dije que éramos sólo amigos porque no nos íbamos a ver más. Espero que no sea así. Vos sos más que una amiga para mí. Si no, no te habría besado._
_Me gustas mucho_
_Te mando un beso grande"_


In this context, "Me gustas mucho" means "I am very attracted to you". 

If you want to say something mild like "I like you a lot" you would say, maybe, "Me caes muy bien", o "Me caes super bien". 

Suerte!


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## padredeocho

Remember that GUSTAR does NOT mean TO LIKE.  It means TO PLEASE.   So, TE GUSTO means I PLEASE YOU.  In English, we would say, YOU LIKE ME.   Too many kids ask the teacher how to say I LIKE ICE CREAM, and the teacher says, ME GUSTA HELADO.   This can really goof a kid up.  The on-the-ball teacher says, "YOU CAN'T SAY TO LIKE IN SPANISH, NOT EVER!"  That is the approach that I take in my Spanish class.  So, ME GUSTAS is YOU PLEASE ME.   We would say, I like you, but kids must be trained to think of it as YOU PLEASE ME.


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## padredeocho

And, for I don't like him, you will often hear this:  Me cae gordo.   Weird, huh?  I falls fat to me!


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## ulrika

padredeocho said:


> Remember that GUSTAR does NOT mean TO LIKE. It means TO PLEASE. So, TE GUSTO means I PLEASE YOU. In English, we would say, YOU LIKE ME. Too many kids ask the teacher how to say I LIKE ICE CREAM, and the teacher says, ME GUSTA HELADO. This can really goof a kid up. The on-the-ball teacher says, "YOU CAN'T SAY TO LIKE IN SPANISH, NOT EVER!" That is the approach that I take in my Spanish class. So, ME GUSTAS is YOU PLEASE ME. We would say, I like you, but kids must be trained to think of it as YOU PLEASE ME.


 
I am not sure I understand what you mean.

I like ice-cream is, in fact, "me gusta el helado". There is absolutely nothing wrong with the verb "gustar". The only thing is, if you are refering to a person in the context of the message above, THEN it is more intended in the sense of "I am attracted to you". Normally, among people, "gustar" means to be attracted to someone. However, it largely depends on context. It is perfectly OK to say "me gustan mis nuevos amigos", "me gusta mi nuevo jefe" and it does not necessarily mean you are attracted to them. It depends on the tone and context.

In any case, I see no problem with the verb "gustar" and I am a native Spanish speaker. I think that "you PLEASE me" has a different meaning.

I am interested in knowing how do you teach your students to say "I like ice-cream"?


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## padredeocho

*I like ice cream* is in fact NOT *me gusta helado*. That is the figurative meaning, not the actual meaning. If you tell a kids that me gusta helado means I like ice cream, he will be set up for a TON of frustration. Here is why: He will here a sentence like this: ME GUSTAS and he will think that GUSTAS means YOU LIKE, and the sentence means YOU LIKE ME. This sentence actually translates as I LIKE YOU, in other words, YOU PLEASE ME. If a student understand this, he or she will NEVER let this backwards-working verb confuse him or her. If the child thinks that GUSTAR means to LIKE, the child will spend a lot of time scratching his or her head. I have taught kids this for 15 years, trust me on this. 

I teach my kids to say ICE CREAM PLEASES ME. ME GUSTA HELADO. 
I will say, "How do you say, I like ice cream?" And my students will shout "YOU CAN'T SAY THAT IN SPANISH!" I will then say, "Then how do we express the same thought?" And the will shout "with the verb TO PLEASE!" 

Most students of Spanish get baffled by GUSTAR because it is so poorly taught, and some books like 501 Spanish verbs ACTUALLY teach it can only be conjugated for third person singular and plural!


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## ulrika

I am sorry, but in any case, when a person says "I like ice-cream", in Spanish it is "Me gusta *el* helado". I hope you have been teaching your students the right use of the article as well. "Me gusta helado" means "I like it frozen". 

I understand that you are trying to provide your students with a trick to learn the particular conjugation of the verb "gustar", but this trick should not get in the way of semantics. As we move beyond the conjugation of the verb and begin discussing its meaning, as far as objects are concerned, "like" is the direct translation of "gustar".


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## padredeocho

I have asked many Hispanics about this.  They go back and forth.  Some say ME GUSTA HELADO, and other say ME GUSTA EL HELADO.  The article is often omitted.   I understand your confusion because it threw me at first, too, when I was new to Spanish.


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## padredeocho

Me gusta helado might technically mean that, but every Mexican I know that I deal with understands what me gusta helado means.   There is typically an obvious context that goes with it.   I bounced this off several of my Mexican friends, and none of them felt that you had to say EL or there would be confusion.  However, I appreciate the tip.


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## padredeocho

If you ever teach GUSTAR to anybody, I highly suggest you teach it for what it is:  TO PLEASE, and never TO LIKE.   
And you *must* explain that it is part of a group that is read backwards:  
no *me importa* esto - this does not matter to me.
no *me gusta* helado - ice cream does not please me
*me duele* el brazo - my (the) arm hurts (me)
*me parece* algo raro - it seems weird (to me)

I think Spanish teachers get very sloppy and are too casual with GUSTAR.  My students are 6-12 graders, and they all easily get this when it is properly explained.   

Example:  Yo te gusto mucho does NOT mean* I like you*.    It means *I PLEASE YOU*.  

Here is why it matters:   If you teach a kid that dropping the final AR and ADDING and O is how you conjugate in the present tense, and tell him that GUSTAR means to like, he will think this:   YO GUSTO =  I LIKE.    So, in his mind, I like ice cream would be:  YO GUSTO (EL) HELADO.   

This is nonsense.    YO GUSTO = I please.   Once that is understood, the child can make sense of a sentence like this:  Ella no me gustaba.   She was not pleasing me.   Instead of She did not like me.   The essence of this sentence is that I did not like her.   However, if the child does not understand that GUSTAR means TO PLEASE, his or head will turn to mush trying to make sense of it.


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## heidita

padredeocho said:


> Me gusta helado might technically mean that, but every Mexican I know that I deal with understands what *me gusta helado* means. There is typically an obvious context that goes with it. I bounced this off several of my Mexican friends, and none of them felt that you had to say EL or there would be confusion. However, I appreciate the tip.


 
I think the people you have dealt with have been simply very polite not to tell you that this form is not the correct one in Spanish. _Me gusta helado_ is tecnically and really "I like it frozen". As a teacher I have no doubt you will want to teach the most appropiate. In no case wouldn't it be understood, but the form _needs_ the article to be correct. 

I remember learning Spanish like this. I said "mi naso" for like three months until somebody told me it was nariz.

Resultados *1* - *10* de aproximadamente *23* de *"me gusta helado"*. Most entries by non-natives. (También tiene frases como m: A Juan le gusta nuez. )


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## heidita

I am surprised at your tone, padreocho. As it is not a common sentence I had to presume that it was you who said it. It is obvious we do not know the same mexicans, as all the mexicans I know, not many, I must admit, say "me gusta el helado". And certainly all the Spaniards I know do.


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## hikesterson

I know this doesn't concern me, but I wanted to say I think the method padredeocho uses to teach the difference between "to like" and "gustar" is a good one. It definitely would have helped me to learn it that way initially. "Gustar" is not exactly equivalent to "to like." If he were to teach this, his students would end up saying "yo gusto las dulces."


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## fenixpollo

While I am not Mexican, I have grown up around them, lived in Mexico, taught Spanish in public schools and studied it in college, and I can tell you that "me gusta helado" is not correct, nor does it sound natural.

That being said, you can leave off the "el" for two reasons:
1) people will understand you perfectly well and will overlook the fact that you omitted the article, because you are not a native speaker; and
2) when one pronounces "el helado", it sounds like "el el ado". The repetitive sound is pronounced so quickly by native speakers that the two "el"s almost merge into one "el", and therefore one is easy to overlook.

So in one sense, you are correct that the "el" in this sentence can be left off; but it by no means "optional" and it is not gramatically correct to leave it off.

Saludos cordiales.


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## fenixpollo

After re-reading your posts in this thread padredeocho, I wanted to suggest a few resources to you. There are a lot of threads in the Grammar forum about gustar, caer, quedar and the related verbs (my search -- here -- turned up 14 previous threads). If you read some of those threads, they might give you a better understanding of this construction.

Cheers.


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## Maruja14

A mi me gusta helado el gazpacho, pero no me gusta el helado.


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## natasha2000

coquita said:


> _ si no, no te hubiera besado_


 
Aquí falta una coma.


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## alize1503

k, lets stop the arguing.  i am pretty sure, padredeocho, is not meaning to argue or helado and el helado. in fact i believe he is arguing over the use and teachings of gustar, which is very confusing as a student.  even in high school, some of my peers still screw this up.

 i myself, did not know until the sixth grade that when translated literally, 'me gusta' means 'it pleases me' and loosley means 'i like...'  

therefore, if a student learns it as 'i like', as i did, we believe that 'you like' is 'te gustas' and 'he likes' is 'le gusta' and so on.  i'm pretty sure this is the point we've been arguing about...

anyways

gracias por todo, por ayudandome, y, si mi espanol no es correcto.... lo siento.  tambien, uso 'slang' de uruguay mucho, porque soy una chikilina.  y gracias por la suerte.  la neccesito... 

chau
besos


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## padredeocho

It is sad when somebody tries to make a personal battle out of something.  I can only post what I hear people say.   Taking issue with what a person has heard is just plain idiotic.    

I have heard me gustan manzanas, and me gustan las manzanas.  It really does not matter what somebody in an ivory tower think is right or wrong.  What matters is what people say.   English people say AREN'T I, and this makes no logical sense at all because I is singular and ARE is plural.  It used to be AMN'T I, but fell into disuse.    So, let's stop bellyaching over what is right and what is wrong.   My point is that I have heard it both ways.   Can we move on and stop being so petty and small-minded?


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## padredeocho

The same stuck ups would have no problem saying this:
He talks funny.
FUNNILY is the "technical" adverb, but so what?
I have spent years reading grammar books, and I can quote them from here to the moon.  What matters is WHO YOUR AUDIENCE is.   That is ALL that will EVER matter.  Anybody who does not speak to his audience is a fool.  Writing is more formal than speech, and speech gets less and less formal the more you know somebody.  In English when go from YOU to YA, and who gives a whit if some grammarian from LaLa land has a problem with it.


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## oriental

alize1503 said:


> gracias por todo, por ayudandome, y, si mi espanol no es correcto.... lo siento. tambien, uso 'slang' de uruguay mucho, porque soy una chikilina. y gracias por la suerte. la neccesito...
> chau
> besos


 
Hello again alize  .
No one is born with a lenguage nor with two and the only way to learn one is to practice and to study.
So, as an old uruguayan to an US girl who lives/lived/will live in my country:
" gracias por todo, por ayudandome ayudarme, y, si mi espanol no es correcto.... lo siento. también, uso mucho 'slang' uruguayo de uruguay mucho, porque soy una chikilina chiquilina. y gracias por la suerte. la neccesito... "  

We all need luck, kiddo.. 
Best wishes,


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## ulrika

I begin this by saying I am a native speaker of Spanish. I did not learn it as a second language. English is my second language.

In Spanish, the articles "el, la, los, las" are also used when referring to objects in generic terms, as a whole. The equivalent in English is to PRECISELY omit the article "the" in such situations. 

Example:

I love children = Me encantan *los* niños. 
I hate fish = Odio *el* pescado.
Women often think that way. = A menudo, *las *mujeres piensan de ese modo. 

As for PLEASE, there is a Spanish verb equivalent: "complacer". Like I said, I understand the teaching strategy, but semantically "please" is not exactly the same as "like", neither in Spanish nor in English. I understand your trick, though. If it works for your students, then great.

_Note: I HAVE JUST REALIZED that this thread had a second page, and I wrote this message without reading all that had been said. I leave it because it is useful I think in terms of the use of the article. I don't mean to argue any further. Great forum!_


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## estrella de mar

I'm sorry to continue this debate, but if I may throw in my opinion, I understand "gustar*se*" not as "to please" but "to be pleasing". (which is different - it is indirect). Therefore:
*te gusto?* - _am I pleasing to you? (sounds *awful *in English, but literal translation) _Do you like me? do you find me attractive? (not common but I have heard it said")
*me gustas* - _You are pleasing to me._   I like you (find you attractive)
*me gusta el helado - *_ice cream is pleasing to me.      _I like it
*nos gusta el helado - *_ice cream is pleasing to us.       _We like it
*le gusta el helado -*_ice cream is pleasing to him/her_.   He/she likes it.
*les gustan el helado -*_ ice cream is pleasing to them_.  They like it
*me gustan los dulces -*_ sweets are pleasing to me._     I like them

I am not a native speaker, but that is how I was taught it, and it makes most sense to me, to explain it as "it is pleasing to me".


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## Maruja14

estrella de mar said:


> *les gustan el helado -*_ ice cream is pleasing to them_. They like it


 
Una puntualización nada más:

Les gusta el helado.
Les gustan los helados.


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## estrella de mar

Verdad, gracias Maruja14!


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## heidita

padredeocho said:


> It is sad when somebody tries to make a personal battle out of something. I can only post what I hear people say. Taking issue with what a person has heard is just plain idiotic.


 
Which reminds me vividly ot what I _heard _on TV the other day. I _heard_ a person say "party training" and had no idea what she meant. In the end it turned out to be _potty training_. 
What you* hear* and what the people actually* say* is something sometimes completely different.



> I have heard me gustan manzanas, and me gustan las manzanas. It really does not matter what somebody in an ivory tower thinks is right or wrong. What matters is what people say.


Exactly, I wholeheartedly agree with you. But possibly you didn't read Fenixpollo? Or Ulrika? I am sorry to insist, the article is_ not_ optional in Spanish.

I am a teacher, too. I think it is highly confusing to teach anybody that _gustar_ is _to be attracted to._ 

Me gusta mucho el novio de mi hija. ( a woman to a man)

I am attracted to my daughter's boyfriend. 

I like my daughter's boyfriend.

In any case, I agree with Ulrike, if it works for you and your students, that's the only thing that matters.


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## heidita

alize1503 said:


> 'he likes' is 'le gusta' and so on.


 
This is actually what it means, alize.

*He likes* ice cream.

*Le gusta* el helado.


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## heidita

Article or no article , by the way, reminds me of the very difficult tasks of teaching a student here in Spain of the non-optional article in

I am a teacher.

I am a waitress.

As in Spanish or German you do _not_ use an article, this is very difficult to remember.


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## alize1503

ok once again.  whiel i understand le gusta and he likes are the same, the wya they are conjugated with pronouns is completely different.  le does not mean he.  it means to him.  therefore, while we know le gusta is the spanish equivalent of he likes, it is in fact different. 

for years, when i was younger, i made the mistake of believing me gusta is literally i like.  as in me means i and gusta means like.  well, if i wanted to say i like apples, i would in fact be wrong with my previous misconception.  i would have said me gusta las manzanas, when it should be gustan.  so, in the end, the point is, they are not completely alike, which is why we are taught that gustar is to please.  at my school, we do indeed know it means i like.  it is merely easier to remember how to use the pronouns in conjunction if we learn it originally to mean to please.

sorry that i dont capitalize and so on.  im a lazy high school kid who oddly enough enjoys spanish and putting my two cents in about learning grammar and whatnot.  

can we all finally agree that gustar means to like but does not use pronouns with it the same way the verb to like does.  this is the reason it is taught as to please.  but the majority of students do know, it is the spanish equivalent to like.  just happens to be the grammatical equivalent of to please.


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## natasha2000

alize1503 said:


> ok once again. whiel i understand le gusta and he likes are the same, the wya they are conjugated with pronouns is completely different. le does not mean he. it means to him. therefore, while we know le gusta is the spanish equivalent of he likes, it is in fact different.
> 
> for years, when i was younger, i made the mistake of believing me gusta is literally i like. as in me means i and gusta means like. well, if i wanted to say i like apples, i would in fact be wrong with my previous misconception. i would have said me gusta las manzanas, when it should be gustan. so, in the end, the point is, they are not completely alike, which is why we are taught that gustar is to please. at my school, we do indeed know it means i like. it is merely easier to remember how to use the pronouns in conjunction if we learn it originally to mean to please.
> 
> sorry that i dont capitalize and so on. im a lazy high school kid who oddly enough enjoys spanish and putting my two cents in about learning grammar and whatnot.
> 
> can we all finally agree that gustar means to like but does not use pronouns with it the same way the verb to like does. this is the reason it is taught as to please. but the majority of students do know, it is the spanish equivalent to like. just happens to be the grammatical equivalent of to please.


 
Olé Alizel! 

¡You're such a bright girl!

Many adults could learn a lot from you.
Keep up the good work! I wish you all the best!


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## alize1503

oriental said:


> Hello again alize  .
> No one is born with a lenguage nor with two and the only way to learn one is to practice and to study.
> So, as an old uruguayan to an US girl who lives/lived/will live in my country:
> " gracias por todo, por ayudandome ayudarme, y, si mi espanol no es correcto.... lo siento. también, uso mucho 'slang' uruguayo de uruguay mucho, porque soy una chikilina chiquilina. y gracias por la suerte. la neccesito... "
> 
> We all need luck, kiddo..
> Best wishes,


 

hey thanks for the help. this has been the least defensive and condescending post i've read for awhile. the spelling help is especially useful. i suck with that. its also great to know someone is on here who lived there... it is indeed my favorite country, and do plan on living there for a little while some day, so all the help i can get is wonderful. i was actually in spanish class today, and i was longing to hear an uruguayan accent....

bueno, gracias por ayudarme!

chau
besos


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## alize1503

natasha2000 said:


> Olé Alizel!
> 
> ¡You're such a bright girl!
> 
> Many adults could learn a lot from you.
> Keep up the good work! I wish you all the best!


 

finally, somone who sees my genius... joking.  i'm really not that good at spanish.  all of you could beast me in spanish.... im the sophmore in spanish IV classes, you guys are like, native spanish speakers, or spanish teachers.  i just think it woudl be nice to have a student perspective on how we are learning.  

thank you for the positivity too.  its refreshing from the argumentative posts.  lets try and feel the love here people!!!


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## fanecabrava82

padredeocho said:


> I have asked many Hispanics about this. They go back and forth. Some say ME GUSTA HELADO, and other say ME GUSTA EL HELADO. The article is often omitted. I understand your confusion because it threw me at first, too, when I was new to Spanish.


 

Hola!!
la verdad es que estoy bastante sorprendida... en mi vida había oído decir que "Me gusta helado" fuera una construcción correcta (si lo que pretendes decir es que te gusta comer helados-ice cream)..... 
Esa oración SIEMPRE DEBE LLEVAR EL ARTÍCULO DETERMINADO "EL", *NUNCA SE DEBE/PUEDE OMITIR, JAMÁS*, osea, "Me gusta *EL* helado" o "Me gustan los helados ".... el omitirlo me recuerda a los niños cuando empiezan a aprender a hablar, que dicen frases incompletas. Dudo que un hispanoparlante pueda decir eso. 
De hecho suena incluso peor en plural "Me gustan helados"¿¿¿¿???.... a cualquier estudiante al que se le hubiera ocurrido escribir eso en un examen/redacción/resumen cuando íbamos al colegio.... tendría un suspenso como una catedral de grande en LENGUA ESPAÑOLA!!! 
Sólo podrías decir "Me gusta helado" cuando te refieres a que te gusta algo congelado  muy frío, por ejemplo, té helado,....etc.,  pero *NUNCA* si hace referencia a un helado=ice cream:

- Cómo prefieres el té, ¿frío o caliente?
- (A mí) me gusta (más) helado.



Espero que hayas sacado algo en claro!!
Hasta otra!!


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## padredeocho

alize1503 said:


> ok once again. whiel i understand le gusta and he likes are the same, the wya they are conjugated with pronouns is completely different. le does not mean he. it means to him. therefore, while we know le gusta is the spanish equivalent of he likes, it is in fact different.
> 
> for years, when i was younger, i made the mistake of believing me gusta is literally i like. as in me means i and gusta means like. well, if i wanted to say i like apples, i would in fact be wrong with my previous misconception. i would have said me gusta las manzanas, when it should be gustan. so, in the end, the point is, they are not completely alike, which is why we are taught that gustar is to please. at my school, we do indeed know it means i like. it is merely easier to remember how to use the pronouns in conjunction if we learn it originally to mean to please.
> 
> I will go to my grave teaching my students that *gustar* does not mean to like. I get transfers into my class all the time who have been taught that *gustar* means to like. They see this: *yo te gusto, and they think it means I like you. After all, if gustar means to like, shouldn't it be so? Teaching it as to please solves this issue. I know other teachers disagree with me, but honestly, I scratch my head as to why. Gusto means pleasure, as in disgusting. The etymology is clearly on my side.   Sadly many teachers also erroneously believe that gustar can only be conjugated for third person singular and plural.  Boy, we have a lot of educating to do!*


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## fenixpollo

padredeocho said:


> Remember that GUSTAR does NOT mean TO LIKE. It means TO PLEASE. So, TE GUSTO means I PLEASE YOU. In English, we would say, YOU LIKE ME. Too many kids ask the teacher how to say I LIKE ICE CREAM, and the teacher says, ME GUSTA HELADO. This can really goof a kid up. The on-the-ball teacher says, "YOU CAN'T SAY TO LIKE IN SPANISH, NOT EVER!" That is the approach that I take in my Spanish class. So, ME GUSTAS is YOU PLEASE ME. We would say, I like you, but kids must be trained to think of it as YOU PLEASE ME.


 After some people took issue with what you said about "el helado" and one tiny off-topic comment about "gustar", you chose to go on the offensive, calling people names and becoming abusive, and defending (to the grave) your point about gustar.

Please re-read the forum rules (click here) about maintaining a civil tone and the bit about decency; then we can come back and discuss the merits of teaching children how to say "you please me" in Spanish.


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## padredeocho

Silly to argue against what I have heard.  I have heard me gusta helado.  To argue against what I have heard is ludicrous, unless of course you are mind-reader.   

I have heard both:  me gusta helado, me gusta el helado.   
me gustan manzanas, me gustan las manzanas.  

I was taught to use el and las in such instances, but what is taught, and what is said, are not the same.


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## fenixpollo

Thanks, padredeocho, for toning it down a little.  

As far as the "el helado" issue goes, it sounds like the big difference here is that you are saying that anything that is spoken, is therefore correct. I, on the other hand, think that anything that is spoken, can therefore be used to communicate effectively.... but that doesn't mean that it's correct.

Another big difference is that you claim to have heard "me gusta helado", while nobody else has. I may have heard "me gustan manzanas", but someone above made the point that apples are different from ice cream because "helado" can be either a noun or an adjective -- so whenever it functions as a noun, it has to have "el" to avoid confusion.

In my opinion, teachers should teach their students to communicate effectively. You seem to believe that the majority of teachers do not do that.  Perhaps you should open a thread in the Cultural Discussions forum about the difference between the Spanish that is taught and the Spanish that is spoken. 

Saludos.


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## padredeocho

I understand that others may not have heard.  I am only passing only the information that I hear.   I was also recently told by a Mexican that where he comes from *sopa *is *pasta,* and *caldo* is not just *broth*, it is *soup*.  That doesn't make him wrong, that is just the way he and his people speak.   I always used the article with gustar in Argentina.   When I speak with Mexicans, I often omit it, because they do, too.  

When we talk about what is correct and what is not correct, it really is silly on our part if we are not learning the language of those with whom we speak.  

I am not going to correct a Mexican who says *me gusta helado*, and tell him that he really should say *el helado*.  Whether you have heard it or not, really does not matter.


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## fanecabrava82

Hola Padreocho!
No discuto que no sea verdad que hayas oído a alguna persona "Me gusta helado/pollo/caldo/patatas/lo que sea", si tú lo dices supongo que será cierto, pero que quede muy claro que el NO USAR el artículo determinado (el/la/los/las) en esas oraciones es *TOTALMENTE* incorrecto. 
Si lo prefieres, te invito a que visites la página web de la Real Academia Española y consultes en el departamento de gramática.
Y créeme que *en este caso* no hay diferencia entre lo que te hayan enseñado en la escuela (que debías usar el/la/...) y lo que la gente dice luego en la calle, porque si alguien omite el uso del artículo es porque no controla del todo bien el idioma (dá igual si es hispanoparlante o no).

En España jamás oirás decir eso y, aunque no soy sudamericana, ten por seguro que oigo hablar a diario a muchos hispanos y NUNCA he oído decir "Me gusta helado/chocolate/albóndigas".
Ya para rematar, aquí estamos para aprender, ¿no??, pues que se divulguen ambos idiomas *correctamente.* 

Abur!!


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## fanecabrava82

padredeocho said:


> I understand that others may not have heard. I am only passing only the information that I hear. I was also recently told by a Mexican that where he comes from *sopa *is *pasta,* and *caldo* is not just *broth*, it is *soup*. Una cosa es que se usen sustantivos diferentes para referirse a determinados productos/cosas *dependiendo del país* en que uno se encuentre, y otra cosa es que uno deje de usar los artículos porque le place.
> Repito, puedo entender que ciertos sustantivos/verbos/adjetivos sean diferentes en España/Argentina/Méjico/Venezuela....etc, pero lo que *no cambia, *y no acepto, es que alguien olvide la obligación de usar los artículos sólo porque está hablando, y así parece que todo vale (según lo que tú dices)!!
> Si no usas los artículos, ten muy presente que estás hablando mal.
> Porque entonces si yo en mi casa, y con mis amigos, empiezo a hablar español como me apetezca, según tú, sería correcto, porque es como hablo yo y mi gente. Incluso hasta podría cambiar la conjugación de los verbos a mi antojo, porque todo vale cuando hablamos ¿no?
> That doesn't make him wrong,that is just the way he and his people speak . I always used the article with gustar in Argentina. When I speak with Mexicans, I often omit it, because they do, too.
> 
> When we talk about what is correct and what is not correct, it really is silly on our part if we are not learning the language of those with whom we speak.
> 
> I am not going to correct a Mexican who says *me gusta helado*, and tell him that he really should say *el helado*. Whether you have heard it or not, really does not matter.


(Yo no dudaría lo de intentar corregir a alguien cuando lo que dice no es correcto, por favor, si yo dijera algo mal en español me gustaría que me corrigieran si creen que es necesario porque todos nos podemos equivocar, pero en este caso creo que está claro el problema. 
Yo he ido a clases de inglés con nativos y nunca dudé comentar aquello que me parecía que no era correcto, y nunca hubo problema)


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## danielfranco

Aw, cripe! I was going to make some incisive and pertinent comment about the whole thing with gustar and "el helado" from the perspective of a bona-fide Mexico City Mexican, but all the good answers have been taken already!
Not fair.
For example:



Maruja14 said:


> A mi me gusta helado el gazpacho, pero no me gusta el helado.



What else was there to say after that?

STREWTH! That's what!!

Anyway, as a English as a second language student, I learnt that "like" was good enough for gustar in its proper context. And all them rules about pesky articles and whatnot, I never learnt them either: I just said it like all Mexicans I've ever known say them... Un helado de fresa: rico (erm, that is, "sabroso", I meant to say), me gusta el helado de fresa. La cerveza helada es mejor que la tibia, claro. El helado hay que comérselo mientras siga helado, porque el helado no helado no me gusta.

See what I mean?

STREWTH, I tell you!


----------



## padredeocho

Wow, that was a fun post!   Tell, how often do you hear *gustar* when it is not followed by an article, as in *me gustan manzanas*.  It seems to me that although I was taught it should be *me gustan las manzanas*, that is not the way I often hear it.


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## PPC

Nunca he dicho:  me gusta helado. 

Si alguien me lleagara a preguntar, diría:  me gustan los helados, me gusta comer helados, me gustan los helados de agua....etc.


----------



## oriental

alize1503 said:


> hey thanks for the help. this has been the least defensive and condescending post i've read for awhile. the spelling help is especially useful. i suck with that. its also great to know someone is on here who lived there... it is indeed my favorite country, and do plan on living there for a little while some day, so all the help i can get is wonderful. i was actually in spanish class today, and i was longing to hear an uruguayan accent....
> bueno, gracias por ayudarme!
> chau
> besos


 
Hello again alize.
Only to correct one mistake in your post  
I'm here, and I've always been living here. YOU are there, but, someday you'll return here, where,  you know, are accepted *and liked*, and *we are pleased* to accept, among us, people like you.
At least one uruguayan *gusta de tì ,* (I suspect  maybe there are more than one but only one that wrote), so, that is a good signal.

Cuando hoy ande por la rambla, me tomo un mate a tu salud...  Va a ser un gustazo.Dale.


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## rocioteag

padredeocho said:


> Wow, that was a fun post! Tell, how often do you hear *gustar* when it is not followed by an article, as in *me gustan manzanas*. It seems to me that although I was taught it should be *me gustan las manzanas*, that is not the way I often hear it.


 
Oh Oh Oh.....

Este post....

Bien, me gustaría saber en que parte de este vasto país que es México, de quienes y en que contexto has escuchado a alguien decir semejante cosa.

Como mexicana que soy, habiendo viajado durante muchos años de mi vida a todo lo largo y ancho de mi tierra natal, habiendo estado en contacto con gente de todos los estratos sociales.....te puedo decir que...

El te, me gusta helado
La cerveza, me gusta helada....

Pero lo que mas me gusta son *los* helados, de fresa, vainilla y chocolate.

El que lo hayas escuchado no lo hace correcto, no se generaliza en cuanto a que así hablamos en estas tierras.


----------



## heidita

danielfranco said:


> I just said it like all Mexicans I've ever known say them... Un helado de fresa: rico (erm, that is, "sabroso", I meant to say), me gusta el helado de fresa. La cerveza helada es mejor que la tibia, claro. El helado hay que comérselo mientras siga helado, porque el helado no helado no me gusta.


 



padredeocho said:


> Wow, that was a fun post! Tell, how often do you hear *gustar* when it is not followed by an article, as in *me gustan manzanas*. It seems to me that although I was taught it should be *me gustan las manzanas*, that is not the way I often hear it.


 
I think both Danielfranco and rocioteag have been perfectly clear, and both are mexicans.


----------



## fenixpollo

padredeocho said:


> I always used the article with gustar in Argentina.   When I speak with Mexicans, I often omit it, because they do, too.
> 
> When we talk about what is correct and what is not correct, it really is silly on our part if we are not learning the language of those with whom we speak.
> 
> I am not going to correct a Mexican who says *me gusta helado*, and tell him that he really should say *el helado*.  Whether you have heard it or not, really does not matter.


 Because it is obvious from your posts that the only thing that matters to you is what YOU have heard, and since you have heard Mexicans omit the "el" or "la" (which is the article), then you assume that all Mexicans say it that way, despite evidence to the contrary. In your words, that makes the rest of us "silly", our arguments "ludicrous" and our posts (snidely) "fun".  Let me ask you again: please change your tone and debate like a rational, intelligent person.


----------



## padredeocho

Personal attacks are simply unwarranted here, so I won't respond to such pettiness.

I just had a Mexican send me a private message, which I found to be quite enlightening.   I think my friends might be slurring el and helado together.,


----------



## elsita

For what it's worth, while as Ulrika says me gusta of course can MEAN the same thing as to like (I dont think anyone is doubting this) I totally agree with padredeocho that it ought not to be taught as an equivalent. It took me a shamefully long time to figure out that the verb worked in reverse... and native spanish speaking friends could never really clear it up for me that well as they saw it as obvious.


----------



## padredeocho

A reasonable mind is so heartwearming!!!  
Yo te gusto = I please you, in other words, you like me.  
That is why Elsita is correct!
Again, the root of the word, is where we get di*sgust*ing, *unpleasurable*.


----------



## alize1503

oriental said:


> Hello again alize.
> Only to correct one mistake in your post
> I'm here, and I've always been living here. YOU are there, but, someday you'll return here, where, you know, are accepted *and liked*, and *we are pleased* to accept, among us, people like you.
> At least one uruguayan *gusta de tì ,* (I suspect maybe there are more than one but only one that wrote), so, that is a good signal.
> 
> Cuando hoy ande por la rambla, me tomo un mate a tu salud...  Va a ser un gustazo.Dale.


 

lo siento!!!  no entendi su primero mensaje!  es muy bueno que vivas en uruguay ahora.  lo siento por la confusion! chau, besos


----------



## fenixpollo

padredeocho said:


> Personal attacks are simply unwarranted here, so I won't respond to such pettiness.


 I wasn't trying to attack you personally -- on the contrary, I was trying to get you to stop your personal attacks, which you continued despite repeated requests (from me and others) that you refrain from being snide, sarcastic and rude. 





padredeocho said:


> I just had a Mexican send me a private message, which I found to be quite enlightening.   I think my friends might be slurring el and helado together.,


 I'm glad to see that you can be reasonable. 





fenixpollo said:


> 2) when one pronounces "el helado", it sounds like "el el ado". The repetitive sound is pronounced so quickly by native speakers that the two "el"s almost merge into one "el", and therefore one is easy to overlook.


----------



## lmct

I am surprised at the fact that no Mexicans have replied yet.

I was born in Mexico and I can tell you that "Me gusta helado" would be translated as "I like it frozen", while "Me gusta _el _helado" would be "I like ice-cream". That is for Mexicans living in Mexico (I've noticed that the language sometimes changes a little while immersed in a different culture with a different language).

As to whether "me gusta" is "I like" or not, well, for translations to be accurate sometimes they cannot be literal. There are words in languages that simply have a different meaning in others (or sometimes don't even exist). It is not so dramatic between Spanish and English, but if you found yourself translating languages like Japanese, you will find that you have to find a different way of translating some words, for them to make sense.

The beauty of languages... it'd be sooo boring if everything was literal.

And, just remembering that, to be more accurate, the way I'd translate 'xyz pleases me' would be 'xyz me place' y no 'xyz me gusta'.


----------



## lmct

oh sorry... just saw two Mexicans writing faster than me....


----------



## elsita

Hi there imct
Just to clear something up ... in English, the phrase 'it pleases me' - although correct - is rarely used. 'Gustar' IS in fact translated literally as 'to like', it's just that grammatically it acts more like the verb 'to please' in English... Hope that's clear!


----------



## Moritzchen

To Conquistadores and Oriental, Uruguayan takes a capital U. Now keep on arguing about whether you like it frozen or not. (Sounds rather kinky to me!)


----------



## padredeocho

In English the verb *gustar* is in fact _literally _translated as *to please*.   It is _figuratively_ translated as *to like*.   If it literally meant *to like*, *yo gusto* would mean *I like*, and it certainly does not mean that, it _literally_ means *I please*.  

*Encantar* _literally _means *to enchant*, but has a different _figurative_ meaning:
Example:  *Me encantan tus canciones*. (*I really dig your songs*)
However, it *actually* means, *your songs enchant me*.  

Knowing the _figurative and actual meanings_ are important for both gustar and encantar.  

I agree that *I please* is seldomly used (so we like to think of gustar as _to like_), but when we study any new language, we come across many things in that language that are seldomly used in our own, and we could all give a zillion examples of this.


----------



## elsita

Fair enough - poor usage of 'literal' - I stand corrected!


----------



## padredeocho

I agree that nearly always it will be me gusta el helado.  However, I heard it differently.  Correct or not.


----------



## padredeocho

I like Elsita's posts.  I hope I did not come across as elitist.


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## elsita

i won't take it personally


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## heidita

elsita said:


> Fair enough - poor usage of 'literal' - I stand corrected!


 
Elsita, you shouldn't think you stand _corrected,_ as

*Yo gusto* actually means *I like* quite frequently:

Resultados *1* - *10* de aproximadamente *1.350* de *"yo gusto de"*. 

"*Yo gusto de* tomar café caliente en la 

*yo gusto de* este tipo de software 
ahora yo tengo un novio *yo gusto de* él y él de mi


----------



## elsita

the plot thickens ......


----------



## Blower's daughter

padredeocho said:


> It is sad when somebody tries to make a personal battle out of something.  I can only post what I hear people say.   Taking issue with what a person has heard is just plain idiotic.
> 
> I have heard me gustan manzanas, and me gustan las manzanas.  It really does not matter what somebody in an ivory tower think is right or wrong.  What matters is what people say.   English people say AREN'T I, and this makes no logical sense at all because I is singular and ARE is plural.  It used to be AMN'T I, but fell into disuse.    So, let's stop bellyaching over what is right and what is wrong.   My point is that I have heard it both ways.   Can we move on and stop being so petty and small-minded?



Ok padreocho you have heard 'me gustan manzanas', next time you heard this please tell that person ME GUSTAN LAS MANZANAS, me gustan manzanas no existe en la gramática espanola, I'm sorry.

Shall I say 'the apples please me' when I want to say I like apples?


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## Moritzchen

OK everybody, let's run for shelter!


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## elsita

This is PRECISELY the point I was trying to make!!!! Thank you  blowers daughter... Although it may not be a _literal_ translation, 'gustar' IS translated in PRACTICE as 'to like'. 
I did not want for people reading this thread to think that somehow 'to please' is a more correct translation of 'gustar' than 'to like' - this is simply not the case, and you would get some strange looks if you went around saying that things pleased you!!


----------



## Blower's daughter

heidita said:


> Elsita, you shouldn't think you stand _corrected,_ as
> 
> *Yo gusto* actually means *I like* quite frequently:
> 
> Resultados *1* - *10* de aproximadamente *1.350* de *"yo gusto de"*.
> 
> "*Yo gusto de* tomar café caliente en la
> 
> *yo gusto de* este tipo de software
> ahora yo tengo un novio *yo gusto de* él y él de mi



*'Yo gusto de'? *Yo no conozco esta espresión.
Yo tengo el gusto de conocerle, tengo el gusto de presentarle... y algunas expresiones mas pero no estas de arriba.
Me gusta tomar café caliente en la
Me gusta este tipo de software
Ahora  yo tengo un novio que me gusta y a él le gusto yo.


----------



## Mirlo

padredeocho said:


> If you ever teach GUSTAR to anybody, I highly suggest you teach it for what it is: TO PLEASE, and never TO LIKE.
> And you *must* explain that it is part of a group that is read backwards:
> no *me importa* esto - this does not matter to me.
> no *me gusta* helado - ice cream does not please me
> *me duele* el brazo - my (the) arm hurts (me)
> *me parece* algo raro - it seems weird (to me)
> 
> I think Spanish teachers get very sloppy and are too casual with GUSTAR. My students are 6-12 graders, and they all easily get this when it is properly explained.
> 
> Example: Yo te gusto mucho does NOT mean* I like you*. It means *I PLEASE YOU*.
> Yo te gusto mucho no es correcto. la expresión es "me gustas mucho" o
> "me gustas" y también se puede decir en español "me" que es una conjugación de "yo" y entonces se cambia el verbo gustar.
> Here is why it matters: If you teach a kid that dropping the final AR and ADDING and O is how you conjugate in the present tense, and tell him that GUSTAR means to like, he will think this: YO GUSTO = I LIKE. So, in his mind, I like ice cream would be: YO GUSTO (EL) HELADO.
> 
> This is nonsense. YO GUSTO = I please. Once that is understood, the child can make sense of a sentence like this: Ella no me gustaba. She was not pleasing me. Instead of She did not like me. The essence of this sentence is that I did not like her. However, if the child does not understand that GUSTAR means TO PLEASE, his or head will turn to mush trying to make sense of it.


----------



## belén

Yo te gusto mucho is indeed correct, meaning "You like me very much" or, as padre8 said, within his teaching theory: "I please you"


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## Mirlo

belen said:


> Yo te gusto mucho is indeed correct, meaning "You like me very much" or, as padre8 said, within his teaching theory: "I please you"


 
si pero estamos discutiendo "I like you" not "you like me"
tienes que leer el principio, y comprender de lo que se trata
Saludos,


----------



## Moritzchen

Mirlo, béibi, fíjate bien a quién le estás hablando.


----------



## danielfranco

Se agradece a Doña Belén su interés y buena voluntad. Su intervención me parece adecuada, en vista que ella ha estado vigilando este hilo desde que comenzó. En la primera página de este hilo, Doña Belén ya había intervenido para mantener esta interesante discusión bien encauzada.
Gracias, de nuevo, por hacer notar que el forer@ en cuestión, desde su perspectiva, también pudiera tener algo que contribuir.


----------



## belén

Mirlo said:


> si pero estamos discutiendo "I like you" not "you like me"
> tienes que leer el principio, y comprender de lo que se trata
> Saludos,



Por supuesto que lo he leído todo (tranquilo Moritzchen, que no muerdo) pero mantengo que no puedes decir que "yo te gusto mucho" no es correcto porque lo es.


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## Gringito

I found the idea of thinking of "Gustar" as "to please" helpful.


----------



## hikesterson

Lmct made a great point. We are lucky that the two languages are are so similar that the words used to convey *i like* in Spanish, take a form that even remotely resembles a similar phrase in English (to please). 


Perhaps at one point at the beginning of the Spanish language, "gustar" meant to give pleasure. And perhaps that changed over time to take on the meaning "to like." This would be one viable explanation of why it's grammatically similar to "please" but means "to like." However, the truth is, such an explanation is irrelevant. The important thing is the meaning the phrase takes on in the native language. And according to wordreference and the native speakers, and my own personal experience "me gusta eso" means "i like that." *Figuratively and literally*. 


It doesn't matter if grammatically it's similar to "That pleases me." There need not be an exact equivalent expression in English that takes on the same grammatic form. Maintaining that viewpoint will result in a lot of frustration while learning other languages. Regarding, Japanese for example, there are many many phrases with no grammatical equivalent in English. 

Pedagogically (teaching method wise) telling students it means "to please" conveys the idea of "to like" is ok, and probably the best way to do it.  In my first post with respect to this issue, I was commenting on how best to teach this concept. But I agree with ulrike, that this is ultimately semantics. We cannot always make Spanish conform to English by taking their expressions and trying to fit them into English grammar constructs. 

I want to thank all the native speakers that have written in, and especially those from Mexico, who have time and time again stated that "me gusta el helado" is fundamentally different from "me gusta helado," and to fenixpollo for pointing out the source of the error in the beginning. I guess Padre8 didn't read that post. 

To me it looks like there's only one person on a high horse here.


----------



## padredeocho

You can argue all day that me gusta literally means I like, but that is on its face absurd.   Figuratively, yes, literally, no way.    *Yo = I*, me = me.  Funny how people will cling to something that is so clearly wrong.   I have run into this for years and years.  * Yo te gusto = I please you*, or figuratively, *you like me*.    Obviously those who thing that gustar means to like will never change their minds no matter how absurd the statement is.


----------



## padredeocho

*I like*. *I* is the subject pronoun, and *like* *is conjugated* with I.
*Me gusta*. *Me* is an object pronouns, and *gusta* _is conjugated_ with another subject, and not with I.

Therefore, if you being reasonable, *I like* cannot possibly _literally_ mean *me gusta*. It can only mean it _figuratively_. Honestly, I find it unbelievable that people want to defend the indefensible.


----------



## padredeocho

Certainly me gusta el helado is the way this is taught, I concede this.   I spoke to many  more hispanics today about it, and 90% of them agree that it should always be me gusta el helado.   However, I could not find a universal agreement on this colloquially.


----------



## lazarus1907

padredeocho said:


> Remember that GUSTAR does NOT mean TO LIKE. It means TO PLEASE. So, TE GUSTO means I PLEASE YOU.


¿Porque lo dices tú? No sé cómo de bueno es tu español, pero independientemente de que TODOS los diccionarios y los mejores traductores del mundo están de acuerdo en que "like" es "gustar", yo, que hablo algo de inglés (soy profesor en un College), te aseguro que sí. 





padredeocho said:


> In English, we would say, YOU LIKE ME. Too many kids ask the teacher how to say I LIKE ICE CREAM, and the teacher says, ME GUSTA HELADO.


¿De dónde es ese profesor? ¿De Marte? "Me gusta helado" solo tiene sentido si te gusta el señor helado; si no, se dice "me gusta el helado". Es un error que no cometen los niños de más de 18 meses. Esto me da una idea de tu nivel de español. 





padredeocho said:


> This can really goof a kid up. The on-the-ball teacher says, "YOU CAN'T SAY TO LIKE IN SPANISH, NOT EVER!" That is the approach that I take in my Spanish class. So, ME GUSTAS is YOU PLEASE ME. We would say, I like you, but kids must be trained to think of it as YOU PLEASE ME.


Estás confundiendo la semántica con la sintaxis. Son lo mismo, pero los verbos afectivos en español se suelen construir como pseudo-impersonales; cosa que no ocurre en inglés. Hay más de 600 verbos que se construyen así en español (según mi base de datos), y muchos no tienen el equivalente estructural en inglés. ¿Significa esto que hay centenares de verbos que sencillamente no se pueden traducir al inglés, sólo porque sintácticamente se usan de distinta manera? Impresionante.


padredeocho said:


> And, for I don't like him, you will often hear this: Me cae gordo. Weird, huh? I falls fat to me!


Eso es un modismo coloquial, que como sabe todo el mundo, no se pueden traducir directamente, o suenan ridículos. ¿Es ese tu argumento?



padredeocho said:


> You can argue all day that me gusta literally means I like, but that is on its face absurd. Figuratively, yes, literally, no way. Yo = I, me = me. Funny how people will cling to something that is so clearly wrong. I have run into this for years and years. Yo te gusto = I please you, or figuratively, you like me. Obviously those who thing that gustar means to like will never change their minds no matter how absurd the statement is.


¿Otra vez el mismo argumento? ¿Por qué no aprendes un poco sobre cómo funcionan los verbos españoles? ¿Tienes idea de qué es una voz media, por ejemplo? Porque tampoco existe en inglés y no se puede traducir directamente; hay que buscar un equivalente semántico. Repito: Semántico. ¿Cómo traducirías los otros 600 verbos que se usan como pseudo-impersonales manteniendo la misma sintaxis? No puedes.


padredeocho said:


> I like. I is the subject pronoun, and like is conjugated with I.
> Me gusta. Me is an object pronouns, and gusta is conjugated with another subject, and not with I.
> 
> Therefore, if you being reasonable, I like cannot possibly literally mean me gusta. It can only mean it figuratively. Honestly, I find it unbelievable that people want to defend the indefensible.


¿Object pronoun? Muy poco preciso. ¿Qué es función es esa exactamente en español? ¿Lo sabes acaso? ¿Sabes cuál es el sujeto de "me gusta el helado"?

Para terminar, nos gustaría que nos tradujeras todas estas frases. Eso sí: Manteniendo la sintaxis, que si no, no son la misma cosa:

Me apena tu ignorancia.
Me admira tu atrevimiento.
Me asquean tus tonterías.
Me asusta tu incultura.
Me irrita tu soberbia.
Me obnubila tu petulancia.
Me turba tu presunción.
Me veja tu fatuidad.
Me jeringa tu jactancia.
Me crispa tu inepcia.
Me hastía tu estulticia.
Me carcome tu empecinamiento.
Me aturulla tu mezcolanza lingüística.
Me desazona tu prolijidad.

¿Vas a seguir usando tu método de tracudcción palabra por palabra?


----------



## hikesterson

According to your (p8's) definition of "literal" which I take it means "word for word" then *to please* is not a literal translation of gustar either. 
It is a best-fit English construction used as a teaching tool, but it is not the literal definition.  

But word-for-word is not always a good method.  As you pointed out with pronouns, in English and Spanish they are in different places in the sentence.  If you want to be very literal, then word for word-- me gusta el helado = me pleases the icecream.  So much for word for word.  I guess you could say that literal translation means to move the words around so that the equivalent grammatical parts of speech (object and subject pronouns, subject, verbs, etc) are realigned so that they make sense in the target language.  However that requires there to be exact translations for the subject, verb, etc.  And if there isn’t?  

What is the literal translation of "yo gusto de salir a pasear por las mañanas”? One acceptable *literal* translation is *I like* taking walks in the morning.  Thus gustar can be a word-for-word translation for *to like.*

With respect to language, will you find *universal *agreement for any rule, even the most obvious?  I seriously doubt it.  Language will always have exceptions.  At this very moment, there may be a baby in Mexico somewhere telling her mother "me gustan helados."  Hopefully the mother will set her daughter straight, though.


----------



## ulrika

elsita said:


> Hi there imct
> Just to clear something up ... in English, the phrase 'it pleases me' - although correct - is rarely used. 'Gustar' IS in fact translated literally as 'to like', it's just that grammatically it acts more like the verb 'to please' in English... Hope that's clear!


 
Yes. That's the point. 

The only reason why some of us insist in this sort of small detail is that this is the forum of a dictionary. People (students, professional translators, people looking for help who are not experienced with languages, all kinds of people) come here and expect to find accurate information. It is not a good idea to assume that everyone is a language student looking for homework help. It is important to make the translation choices clear and available to people who might be looking for a sound equivalent in another language for what they want to say.


----------



## ulrika

hikesterson said:


> Lmct made a great point. We are lucky that the two languages are are so similar that the words used to convey *i like* in Spanish, take a form that even remotely resembles a similar phrase in English (to please).
> 
> 
> Perhaps at one point at the beginning of the Spanish language, "gustar" meant to give pleasure. And perhaps that changed over time to take on the meaning "to like." This would be one viable explanation of why it's grammatically similar to "please" but means "to like." However, the truth is, such an explanation is irrelevant. The important thing is the meaning the phrase takes on in the native language. And according to wordreference and the native speakers, and my own personal experience "me gusta eso" means "i like that." *Figuratively and literally*.
> 
> 
> It doesn't matter if grammatically it's similar to "That pleases me." There need not be an exact equivalent expression in English that takes on the same grammatic form. Maintaining that viewpoint will result in a lot of frustration while learning other languages. Regarding, Japanese for example, there are many many phrases with no grammatical equivalent in English.
> 
> Pedagogically (teaching method wise) telling students it means "to please" conveys the idea of "to like" is ok, and probably the best way to do it. In my first post with respect to this issue, I was commenting on how best to teach this concept. But I agree with ulrike, that this is ultimately semantics. We cannot always make Spanish conform to English by taking their expressions and trying to fit them into English grammar constructs.
> 
> I want to thank all the native speakers that have written in, and especially those from Mexico, who have time and time again stated that "me gusta el helado" is fundamentally different from "me gusta helado," and to fenixpollo for pointing out the source of the error in the beginning. I guess Padre8 didn't read that post.
> 
> To me it looks like there's only one person on a high horse here.


 
I absolutely agree. This post examines the point quite clearly.

I'd like to add that the literal translation of "to please" is "complacer", so maybe the difference between "to like" and "gustar" is simply in grammatical construction.


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## Chaucer

padredeocho said:


> If you ever teach GUSTAR to anybody, I highly suggest you teach it for what it is:  TO PLEASE, and never TO LIKE.
> And you *must* explain that it is part of a group that is read backwards:
> no *me importa* esto - this does not matter to me.
> no *me gusta* helado - ice cream does not please me
> *me duele* el brazo - my (the) arm hurts (me)
> *me parece* algo raro - it seems weird (to me)
> 
> I think Spanish teachers get very sloppy and are too casual with GUSTAR.  My students are 6-12 graders, and they all easily get this when it is properly explained.
> 
> Example:  Yo te gusto mucho does NOT mean* I like you*.    It means *I PLEASE YOU*.
> 
> Here is why it matters:   If you teach a kid that dropping the final AR and ADDING and O is how you conjugate in the present tense, and tell him that GUSTAR means to like, he will think this:   YO GUSTO =  I LIKE.    So, in his mind, I like ice cream would be:  YO GUSTO (EL) HELADO.
> 
> This is nonsense.    YO GUSTO = I please.   Once that is understood, the child can make sense of a sentence like this:  Ella no me gustaba.   She was not pleasing me.   Instead of She did not like me.   The essence of this sentence is that I did not like her.   However, if the child does not understand that GUSTAR means TO PLEASE, his or head will turn to mush trying to make sense of it.



Yes! Exactly like I teach it also.!


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## Blower's daughter

Hi guys I am going to write down the five different meanings for gustar in the RAE (real academia espanola) an try to translate them to English:
Gustar
(del latín gustare)
1. tr.  Sentir percibir el sabor de las cosas = to taste
2. tr. Experimentar, probar = to experience, to feel, to try
3. int. Agradar, parecer bien = to please
4. int. Dicho de una persona significa Resultar atractiva a otra = about a person means to be attractive to someone
5. int. Desear, querer y tener complacencia en algo = to desire, to want, to love, to like and to get satisfaction with something.

As we can see Gustar has a lot of different meanings, it just depends on the context in which it is used that we can get the proper meaning.
As native Spanish the word gustar has not a negative or highly sexual meaning, for example 'me gusta padreocho', it doesn't mean I'm attracted to him I just like that he is very interested in the Spanish language and promote a lot of discussions about it in the foro. But if I would know him personally and I say 'Guauu me gusta padreocho, es muy sexy' it means I am attracted to him, but you always have to add something to gustar to give it a sexual connotation.
Spanish as English is a very complicated language.

Good luck to everybody with their second language.


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## belén

La primera parte de este hilo "Si no te hubiera" se ha trasladado aquí.


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## lmct

Perhaps padredeocho needs to spend more time in a Spanish speaking country to see from own experience that "me gusta" is in PRACTICE "I like".

Whether it is correct, incorrect, good, bad, demonic, angelic, etc.... the fact is that people translate and use in many, many contexts, "me gusta" as "I like".

So perhaps looking at a different way of translating please and like into Spanish would be in something like:

"It pleases me to know that there is more to life than liking and disliking carrots - or apples!"


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## lmct

Blowers daughter, when I hear or read "me gusta padreocho" the context of attraction comes to mind. And same for Mexicans living in Mexico. 

If you were to say "me gusta lo que padreocho hace" then, that is a different story.


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## andaya

Padrepocho, no sé donde has oído me gustan manzanas, pero la forma correcta de decirlo es me gustan las manzanas. 
Yo nunca he oído eso de me gustan manzanas, al menos a un hispanoparlante.


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## Blower's daughter

lmct said:


> Blowers daughter, when I hear or read "me gusta padreocho" the context of attraction comes to mind. And same for Mexicans living in Mexico.
> 
> If you were to say "me gusta lo que padreocho hace" then, that is a different story.



Sweety, then don't say me gustas en mexico, but in Spain we are free to say me gustas without any fears. I'm speaking from the point of view from a native spanish speaker and when I say 'me gustan las manzanas' does it means that I'm feeling attracted to apples????
maybe gustar is a forbidden word in south america but not in Spain.


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## heidita

Blower's daughter said:


> Sweety, then don't say me gustas en mexico, but in Spain we are free to say me gustas without any fears. I'm speaking from the point of view from a native spanish speaker and when I say 'me gustan las manzanas' does it means that I'm feeling attracted to apples????
> maybe gustar is a forbidden word in south america but not in Spain.


 
Perfectly true, actually one uses:

¡Hay que ver cómo me gusta Maria!

and nobody will think you "are attracted " to Maria. (In my case for example, but also in a man's case) Of course it _can_ mean that, but gustar normally doesn't. It is a very frequently used word for all kind of relationships.

AS I said in a post before, so if I said in Mexico: 
Me gusta el novio de mi hija. 
somebody would understand that I am attracted to him?


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## danielfranco

Depends on the kind of eyes you make at him!


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## lmct

danielfranco said:


> Depends on the kind of eyes you make at him!



Totally agree... 

and well, you are right. Me gusta fulanitodetal not always means I am attracted to that person, but it certainly could. It wouldn't apply with apples - that is for sure.


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## Mayteesp

Bueno, Yo si soy mexicana, y el artículo si se ocupa.....

Me gusta el helado .....I like icecream
Me gusta helado.....I like it frozen

Incluso dependiendo de lo mucho que me guste el helado podría decir....me fascina el helado, me trastorna el helado, me vuelve loca el helado... como verán puedo cambiar el verbo para enfatizar que tanto me gusta, pero jamás eliminé el artículo.

 También es cierto que cuando escucho a un estadounidense hablar, no espero que el utilice una sintaxis correcta, ni los tiempos de los verbos, ni nada por el estilo y justificaré todos sus errores poniendo lo que falta aquí y allá.

Pero si Yo entrego un trabajo escolar omitiendo artículos, seguro que no pasaré el año escolar ni ahora ni nunca, además de que, el artículo debe hacer concordancia con el género y el número del núcleo del sujeto, es decir hacer concordancia con singular y plural y con masculino y femenino.  Lo que si no tiene traducción es “it” en español lo que no es femenino es masculino, no existe la ambigüedad.

Ahora volviendo a la traducción: Me gustas mucho, pregunté a mis hijos y ambos coincidieron en que, si quieres “algo más” (romance) con la chica usarían la palabra “me gustas mucho” y si solo pretendieran amistad usarían “me caes muy bien” incluso “me caes súper bien” 

Y de pasadita dire, que en México si puedes decir "Me gusta el novio de mi hija" sin por eso suponer que estas enamorada o enamorado de él, de igual manera podemos decir "me gustan las manzanas, y las zanahorias, y los frijoles" y la gente entenderá perfectamente lo que dices, nada fuera de lo normal.

 Ojala te sea de ayuda


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## estrella de mar

Hell's bell's! What a thread! Well we certainly have discoverd the MANY points of view on this subject, seems like it could be an interminable discussion.
Maybe none of us has the definitive answer, or at least one that we can all agree on, in all our different cultures and from which point of view we have been taught. Maybe it's time to agree to disagree?
My attitude to language learning has always been that main point is communication between people, and as long as we can make ourselves understood, perhaps totally accuracy is not the most important thing. Certainly not worth arguing about!

Me gusta aprender los idiomas, y me gusta la gente de todos los paises hispanohablantes, saludos a todos vosotros!


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## Mirlo

aL FINAL "LAZARUS1907" tiene la explicación más razonable y correcta. A lo mejor no pude explicar lo que quería decir,pero Lazarus hizo un punto excelente.


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## natasha2000

Es que todo este follón sobre I LIKE me resulta francamente, ridículo.

Enseñar que ME GUSTAS significa YOU PLEASE ME es una ridiculez! El hecho de que el verbo funciona "al revés", como algunos han justificado esa ridícula práctica no es suficiente, y creo que solamente puede confundir al alumno a la hora de utilizar el verbo correctamente. 

Si enseñas a un alumno que GUSTAR significa PLEASE entonces, si él quisiera decir, por ejemplo, _I will do it only to please you_, diría: _Lo haré solo porque me gustas?????_

PLEASE significa AGRADAR, COMPLACER.
Yo puedo hacer algo por alguna persona para agradarla, o para complacerla, pero eso no necesariamente implica que ME GUSTA. 
If I do something to please someone, that doesn't necessarily mean that I like that person, too.

Aquí se hablaba solamente de los alumnos angloparlantes que aprenden español. No veo que se haya quejado ningún hispanoparlante a la hora de aprender como funciona el verbo LIKE. Para ellos también es "al reves" no? Así que, como los hispanoparlantes aprenden que LIKE es GUSTAR y que funcionan de la manera "al revés" sin la necesidad alguna de buscar y rebuscar otro verbo español que funcione gramaticalmente de la misma manera que LIKE (¿Cúal sería? - amar? querer? ), no veo por qué los angloparlantes no pueden hacer lo mismo. Aprender que GUSTAR significa LIKE. Aprender su significado CORRECTO y el más adecuado.


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## Mirlo

BRAVO! "Natasha2000" correctamente explicado


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## Outsider

Another vote for *Me gusta X = I like X*, here.

The verbs "gustar" and "to like" just happen to have a different syntax. What is the subject in English becomes the object in Spanish, and vice-versa.

I agree that "Me gusta X" can be _literally_ translated as "X pleases me", but this would by no means be a natural translation. As a matter of fact, I remember once being chastized in these forums by a native English speaker, for saying that "Me gusta X" was "X pleases me".

And I'm sorry, but if people come out of school thinking that "Te gusto" is "I like you", then either they had pretty rotten teachers, or they did not study enough.


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## Porteño

Well, padredeocho, you have certainly opened my eyes. I have been speaking 'Spanish' for some 40 years (I learned it on the streets, I have never had formal tuition) and I never knew that 'gustar' meant 'to please' rather than 'to like'.  I probably never had any problem as I have always spoken without translating, just imitating the 'natives' as best I could!


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## i_speak_spanish

nice thread.. here is what i wanted to say-

kids has to be taught that "I like ice creams" means "me gustan los helados" but is not a literal translation. It is special.

i wont choose "ICE CREAM PLEASES ME" as "me gusta el helado" (no se omite el articulo EL en este caso, hazle caso ).. what will happen if I went to some guy and I say to him "your sister pleases me" ??  I will be in danger..

I think that both translations are not literals, but the first one makes more sense.


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## roxcyn

Para responder de la cosa de "el helado".  Pensaba que algunos mexicanos se dicen "la nieve" y "la nievería" en vez de "el helado" y "la heladería".  ¿No es verdad?  

Creo que el método para enseñar que significa "to please" (literalmente) es bastante bien para los angloparlante que aprenden español, pero la tradución es "to like".  Es bueno para saber que literalmente significa "to please" porque los estudiantes pueden coordinar el verbo y el subjeto.  Pero eso sólamente funciona para los angloparlantes que aprenden español y no para los hispanohablantes que aprenden inglés.  (Suena raro para dice "Your sister please me" o "Apples pleases me" porque suele usar el verbo "to like" en inglés)

Otro método que vi, es el siguiente:

Dibuja una línea entre el objeto indirecto y el verbo.

Me |  gusta el helado.
Me | gustas (tú).  
Le | gusta la escuela.  

A la izquierda, ¿está coordinado con el objeto indirecto? [es decir, me, te, le, nos, os, les]

A la derecha, ¿está coordinado el sustantivo y el verbo?  [gustas = tú], etc.

Con la explicación de ver el verbo como si fuera "to please", los dos métodos serían muy buenos para aprender español como otra lengua.

PD: Los angloparlantes pueden entender totalmente mejor otros temas también.  Por ejemplo, los estudiantes suelen decir:
* "Me llamo es Pablo"

Piensan que "Me llamo" significa "My name" y recuerdan que "es" significa "it is"  Pero si el profe enseña la significación literal, todo el mundo puede ver que significa

Me (myself) llamo (I call)  = I call myself...
Y es obvio en esta forma no necesita otro verbo.


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## vince

heidita said:


> Elsita, you shouldn't think you stand _corrected,_ as
> 
> *Yo gusto* actually means *I like* quite frequently:
> 
> Resultados *1* - *10* de aproximadamente *1.350* de *"yo gusto de"*.
> 
> "*Yo gusto de* tomar café caliente en la
> 
> *yo gusto de* este tipo de software
> ahora yo tengo un novio *yo gusto de* él y él de mi



Judging from the relatively few number of results, I suspect that "gustar de" meaning "to like" is mainly used by people who think "yo tenho frio, feche la janela!" means "I am cold, close the window" in Spanish.

i.e., portuñol speakers.


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## natasha2000

roxcyn said:


> Piensan que "Me llamo" significa "My name" y recuerdan que "es" significa "it is" Pero si el profe enseña la significación literal, todo el mundo puede ver que significa
> 
> Me (myself) llamo (I call) = I call myself...
> Y es obvio en esta forma no necesita otro verbo.


 
Eso puede ser SOLAMENTE una explicación de funcionamiento del verbo, pero en ningún caso se puede enseñar que esto es la traducción correcta. Cuando daba clases, a veces utilizaba la traducción literal, para explicar como funciona alguna expresión, pero también dejaba bien claro que eso NO es la traducción y daba la traducción correcta.


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## fenixpollo

roxcyn said:


> Para responder de la cosa de "el helado".  Pensaba que algunos mexicanos se dicen "la nieve" y "la nievería" en vez de "el helado" y "la heladería".  ¿No es verdad?


 No, roxcyn. En México, el helado se hace con crema (ice cream) y la nieve se hace con agua (sherbet, sno-cones, shaved ice).

Can we put this one to bed yet? Is it necessary to keep arguing when one of the sides in the argument has gone home and gone to bed?


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## PPC

I think everyone forgot that gustar is a reflexive verb...therefore,

me gustan las películas francesas....

French films are liked by ME.  Awkward, but that is the translation.

Me gustas...you are liked by ME!


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## Outsider

"Gustar" is not reflexive. You don't normally say "gustarse". And you can say "Me gustas"; you don't have to say "Te gustas" just because the verb is in the second person.


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## oriental

vince said:


> Judging from the relatively few number of results, I suspect that "gustar de" meaning "to like" is mainly used by people who think "yoeu tenho frio, feche laa janela!" means "I am cold, close the window" in Spanish.
> 
> i.e., portuñol speakers.


 
Bôm día Vince !

As one of the portuñol speakers and being my first lenguage spanish, if I said "*gusto de*", por la razón gramatical que sea ( y si la hay o hubiere o hubiese habido) , I'm gustando of *somebody, and a human somebody -*in my case, of the opposite sex*.*

I don't "gusto de " not even of my dog -an almost human one ( wow, what a way to insult Tico !) - nor of reading or fishing, two things I like to do.

Yo quiero a mi perro y me gusta leer y pescar.

When I go to brazil, yo compro garotos... acá me gusta el helado de Crufi... y, when I go up north, I like ice cream.

Ain't it enough ?

Let's go to a more intresting question... 
Adán, had a navel ?


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## vince

So gusto de is proper Spanish?

"Gusto de mi novia" es una buena oración en español?

"Yo tenho frio, feche la janela" - I have seen such sentences written!
Why did you "correct" it? By writing "Eu tenho frio, feche a janela" you turned it into Portuguese! Did you read my sentence?
_
"I suspect that "gustar de" meaning "to like" is mainly used by people *who think* "yo tenho frio, feche a janela!" *means* "I am cold, close the window" *in* *Spanish*."_


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## bluejazzshark

Having worked my way through this thread, it seems obvious to me that:

(1) Learning "gustar" as "to please" is the clearest way of making sense of expressions like "me gustas" or "te gusto" etc. which aren't easily translated as "to like" because the verb is "back to front".
(2) This doesn't mean that gustar literally means "to please", but it's a fair approximation.
(3) The definite article is required after the verb, unless you talk to a VERY SELECT few Mexicans and can't hear them say "el, la, los or las".
(4) All other Mexicans on the planet do use the article, but intentionally omit it when you are listening.

That's a fair summary of the thread methinks...

- Blue.


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## Mirlo

No, lo que pasa es que algunas cosas no las puedes traducir literalmente,
la palabra "please" en inglés tiene más de un significado como lo dijo uno de los foreros si dices "your sister please me" la implicación es vulgarísima.
Como dijo Natasha2000 pasa lo mismo en "My name". En otras palabras: se puede enseñar correctamente el significado de "I like you" pero no lo puedes usar literalmente todo el tiempo. Ese es el punto que todos están tratando de hacer.
Saludos,


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## Jellby

vince said:


> So gusto de is proper Spanish?
> 
> "Gusto de mi novia" es una buena oración en español?



Yes, it is

Yes, it is, but it's not something one would use everyday. I'd say it's more used for actions than for things: "you gusto de dormir un rato después de comer".


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## Moritzchen

You'd say it like that and not "me gusta dormir un rato después de comer"?  (which, by the way, is bad for your waistline)


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## natasha2000

Jellby said:


> Yes, it is
> 
> Yes, it is, but it's not something one would use everyday. I'd say it's more used for actions than for things: "you gusto de dormir un rato después de comer".


 
¿De verdad? 
Lo que una puede aprender en este foro! 



Moritzchen said:


> You'd say it like that and not "me gusta dormir un rato después de comer"? (which, by the way, is bad for your waistline)


 
Pero da un gustito....


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## i_speak_spanish

es más usual/comun/natural usar:
me gusta hacer ....
me gusta comer ....
me gusta dormir ...

come and say "yo gusto de ... " and maybe some people will look at you a litle weird.. yoda style


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## mhp

DRAE: gustar: 5. intr. Desear, querer y tener complacencia en algo. Gustar DE correr, DE jugar.

Also: gustar de bromas, alabanzas. 
(es un tipo divertido y gusta de bormas)

Also: 1. tr. Sentir y percibir el sabor de las cosas.
(gustaron las mieles del triunfo)

Also: en frases de cortesía: llámeme cuando usted guste.


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## fanecabrava82

i_speak_spanish said:


> es más usual/comun/natural usar:
> me gusta hacer ....
> me gusta comer ....
> me gusta dormir ...
> 
> come and say "yo gusto de ... " and maybe some people will look at you a litle weird.. yoda style


 

Estoy de acuerdo contigo, es verdad que alguna vez he oído "gusto de..." pero es bastante raro oírlo, no se usa demasiado. Yo me quedaría con "me gusta..." ; )


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## Mayteesp

Así es roxcyn, para nosotros los mexicanos nieve es el equivalente de ice cream, de igual manera es válido para “snow”, pero como la discusión iba sobre like y gustar y sobre el artículo no era mi deseo agregar “más leña a la lumbre”. Y aunque es más natural usar la palabra nieve y nevería, también sabemos lo que es helado y heladería.

J

Y aunque el helado se haga con crema y la nieve con agua, en mi tierra al norte de México, a todo se le llama Nieve


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## Edwin

padredeocho said:


> The same stuck ups would have no problem saying this:
> He talks funny.
> FUNNILY is the "technical" adverb, but so what?
> I have spent years reading grammar books, and I can quote them from here to the moon.



*Funny* is an adjective AND an adverb. See, for example:  www.onelook.com



> Quick definitions (*funny*)
> 
> # adjective:   experiencing odd bodily sensations (Example: "Told the doctor about the funny sensations in her chest")
> # adjective:   not as expected (Example: "Up to some funny business")
> # adjective:   beyond or deviating from the usual or expected (Example: "Her speech has a funny twang")
> # adjective:   arousing or provoking laughter (Example: "Funny stories that made everybody laugh")
> # adverb:   in a comical manner
> # adverb:   in a strange manner (Example: "He acted kind of funny")


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## fenixpollo

Mayteesp said:


> Y aunque el helado se haga con crema y la nieve con agua, en mi tierra al norte de México, a todo se le llama Nieve


 Allí está.  Gracias por la aclaración, Mayteesp.

Si gustan comentar sobre los helados y las nieves, lo pueden hacer en hilos como paletas y nieves, Italian ices, snowcone, snow cones, fruit smoothie, y banana split.

Saludos.


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## coffeebuzz

This is an excellent explanation. I've been speaking Spanish for many years and this really clarifies the meaning/equivalent word in English. This is one of those light bulb moments for me. Thank you for sharing this!!



padredeocho said:


> Remember that GUSTAR does NOT mean TO LIKE.  It means TO PLEASE.   So, TE GUSTO means I PLEASE YOU.  In English, we would say, YOU LIKE ME.   Too many kids ask the teacher how to say I LIKE ICE CREAM, and the teacher says, ME GUSTA HELADO.   This can really goof a kid up.  The on-the-ball teacher says, "YOU CAN'T SAY TO LIKE IN SPANISH, NOT EVER!"  That is the approach that I take in my Spanish class.  So, ME GUSTAS is YOU PLEASE ME.   We would say, I like you, but kids must be trained to think of it as YOU PLEASE ME.


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## duvija

coffeebuzz said:


> This is an excellent explanation. I've been speaking Spanish for many years and this really clarifies the meaning/equivalent word in English. This is one of those light bulb moments for me. Thank you for sharing this!!



OK, you're answering to a thread from 2006...
I use 'you disgust me', explaining that it's the same, with 'gust', if it existed...


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