# identitario



## cesp

Carissimi, 

avrei necessità di tradurre in inglese l'aggettivo "identitario", nell'ambito della seguente frase "le produzioni tipiche come rappresentazioni identitarie".

Grazie dell'aiuto!


----------



## rocknrollelena

Paulfromitaly said:


> E cosa sarebbe una rappresentazione identitaria?
> Mai sentito prima tale aggettivo..


 
Neanchi'io, ma mi suona come uno di quei termini assurdi che coniano in psicologia.  Non puoi dire semplicemente "*identity representation*"?


----------



## cesp

Caro Paul,

per identitario viene oggi inteso tutto quanto attenga alla questione della identità sociale/culturale. Pensi che "identitarian" potrebbe essere una possibile traduzione?

Grazie dell'aiuto


----------



## SoleSun82

Io ho un altro esempio dove "identitario" è stato usato e anche io mi sto trovando in difficoltà a trovare una traduzione.

In questo modo ho ricreato quello che avevo provato a distruggere: un luogo non identitario, né relazionale, né storico.

In doing so, I have recreated exactly what I had tried to destroy: a place that is not identifying, relational or historical.

Purtroppo il Dizionario Italiano De Mauro non contiene questo aggettivo...
Potrebbe significare

In doing so, I have recreated exactly what I had tried to destroy: a place that does not create identities, relationships or history.

Lo dico perché ho trovato una traduzione nel dizionario del Corriere della Sera che traduce "identitario" con "identity making". 

Con ne pensate?

Grazie

Frances


----------



## ILMarx

"Recupero" il thread, perché mi trovo nelle stesse difficoltà.

Devo tradurre quanto segue:
"...Favoriscono una rappresentazione identitaria fragile e facilmente massificabile".

"Identitario" secondo il Corriere ha il suffisso agentivo, perciò diventa _identity-making_.

Ho perciò tradotto (il mio) come segue:

_They favor a fragile and easily de-individualizing self-representation, given as an identity-making process.

_Nel mio caso va bene, perché conserva il senso di quello che desidero esprimere, ma non so se a voi torna utile.

*P.S.:* I misteri della _word-formation _italiana, parola di filosofo (che ci crede, sigh!).


----------



## TimLA

Ciao,

Favoriscono una rappresentazione identitaria fragile e facilmente massificabile.

They favor a fragile and easily standardizable representation of identity.


Difficile. Mi pare che viene da un concetto di Magnaghi, ma non sono sicuro.
L'ho trovato come "identity representation" ma nel tuo contesto, non mi suona.
Ci puoi dare piu' contesto? Esattamente di che cosa si riferisce nel tuo testo?


----------



## ILMarx

Il contesto è che_ la [rappresentazione del sé], la quale è [identitaria] (cioè produce l'identità attraverso la rappresentazione) è [fragile] e [facilmente massificabile]._

Mi va benissimo il tuo *standardizable*, però non posso mettere "*representation of identity*", perché non è l'*identity* che viene rappresentata, ma è la rappresentazione che *fa* l'identità (= è identitaria).

Il contesto è difficile perché sono cose che scrive mia madre per l'Università di Venezia. La tua _hint_ di Magnaghi è interessantissima, ma non c'entra direttamente con quello di cui mi occupo.

Magnaghi pone l'accento sull'identità locale, cioè legata ad una realtà del territorio, dando una specie di risposta molto specifica al mio problema.

A me interessa il fatto che spesso si usano troppo dei _modelli didattici a mediazione docente_, cioè in cui è il docente il _pivot_ che fa la mediazione tra *allievo *e *sapere*.

Questi vecchi modelli hanno funzionato bene e favorito sperimentazioni, ma la *nuova formazione di identità e diversità*, di cui è protagonista la nostra epoca, ha dei *requisiti* che non rendono più adatti questi vecchi modelli.

Domanda: che cosa non li rende più adatti?
a) Favoriscono la centralità dell'insegnamento, anziché la centralità dell'apprendimento;
b) Favoriscono una rappresentazione identitaria fragile e facilmente massificaible.

...Che è la nostra frase.


----------



## TimLA

Ok, vediamo...



> Il contesto è che_ la [rappresentazione del sé], la quale è [identitaria] (cioè produce l'identità attraverso la rappresentazione) è [fragile] e [facilmente massificabile]._


 


> ma è la rappresentazione che *fa* l'identità (= è identitaria).


 
Domanda: che cosa non li rende più adatti?
a) Favoriscono la centralità dell'insegnamento, anziché la centralità dell'apprendimento;
They favor centrality of teaching, instead of centrality of learning.

b) Favoriscono una rappresentazione identitaria fragile e facilmente massificaible.
They favor fragile and easily standardizable identity representations.

Aspettiamo altri pareri.


----------



## ILMarx

A me basterebbe che tu mi dicessi che va bene dire _identity-making representations_.

_They favor fragile and easily standardizable identity-making representations.

_
EDIT: Alea iacta est! Tengo questa. Sono le 06:08 di mattina, e il pubblico di oggi pomeriggio è composto da Mitteleuropei.

Grazie a tutti per l'aiuto.


----------



## TimLA

Non suona.
Forse:

...standardizable identity-creating representations.
...standardizable identity-producing representations.


----------



## vale_new

Ciao!

Riprendo il thread per chiedere delucidazioni su 'radici identitarie' in questo contesto:
XYZ è quel luogo magico dove si trovano le radici identitarie di popoli e culture, le radici dell'Italia e dell'Europa ad esempio è un insieme di particolarità, un grande calderone di differenze linguistiche, geografiche, paesaggistiche, agricole, che hanno molti millenni di storia sulle spalle, luoghi che hanno ispirato poeti, letterati e statisti, scatenato passioni e sentimenti popolari, nostalgie e insofferenze. 

il mio tentativo: 
XYZ is that magic place where identity roots of people and culture can be found /are to be found. The roots of Italy and Europe, for instance, are an example of peculiarities, a mishmash of linguistic, geographic, landscape, agricultural peculiarities, with thousands of years of history. Places that inspired poets, scholars and politicians, provoking passions and people's feeling, nostalgias and impatiences. 

Grazie


----------



## GavinW

My stab (adapting yours):

XYZ is that magical place where the roots that formed the original identities of peoples and cultures can be found/are to be found. The roots of Italy and of Europe, for example, are a combination/fusion of characteristic elements, a melting-pot of features relating to/involving language, geography, landscape, and agriculture, with a history spanning thousands of years. Places that have inspired poets, scholars and statesmen, stirring popular passions and sentiments, as well as forms of nostalgia for the past, and long-held grudges.
 
"Grudges" is the only word I took a risk on, but it sat well in the sentence (insofferenze is hard to interpret specifically).
HTH


----------



## vale_new

Grazie,

Identitarian roots potrebbe essere? Girando la frase in effetti è più semplice, melting pot però è un'espressione altamente connotante quando si parla di società, anche in contesto informale, grudge mi fa pensare tanto a scrooge   impatience mi suona in questo contesto


----------



## GavinW

vale_new said:


> Grazie,
> 
> Identitarian roots potrebbe essere?
> 
> - No, sorry, that word doesn't exist.
> 
> Girando la frase in effetti è più semplice, melting pot però è un'espressione altamente connotante quando si parla di società, anche in contesto informale,
> 
> - Sure, but I feel "melting-pot" is justified here: the reference is neutral. And the term only really has "connotations" when used as an Anglicism in Italian: in English, it has no special connotations one way or the other.
> 
> grudge mi fa pensare tanto a scrooge
> 
> - OK, maybe it's a bit banal, or personalised.
> 
> impatience mi suona in questo contesto
> 
> - Not to me it doesn't: impatience primarily and naturally refers to an individual person, rather than to a group of people (as here)


 
HTH


----------



## vale_new

Identitarian roots potrebbe essere?

- No, sorry, that word doesn't exist.

Pity, that would have been perfect  Identity roots then
Girando la frase in effetti è più semplice, melting pot però è un'espressione altamente connotante quando si parla di società, anche in contesto informale,

- Sure, but I feel "melting-pot" is justified here: the reference is neutral. And the term only really has "connotations" when used as an Anglicism in Italian: in English, it has no special connotations one way or the other.

I'd rather avoid to use that expression. Melting-pot has a strong meaning and is usually referred to define a social model, specifically the US integration model, as opposed to other social models more common in Europe and other English-speaking countries, both in Italian and English. 

grudge mi fa pensare tanto a Scrooge 

- OK, maybe it's a bit banal, or personalised.

Not banal at all, sounds evil, negative. 

impatience mi suona in questo contesto

- Not to me it doesn't: impatience primarily and naturally refers to an individual person, rather than to a group of people (as here)


----------



## GavinW

vale_new said:


> Identity roots


 
No, sorry, we don't say this (have another look at the kind of solution I suggested earlier...).
The point is that "identity" cannot be used as an adjective or pre-modifying noun (pre-modifier). You need to find a "work-around", using the noun only.


----------



## vale_new

Mi sa che la parola suggerita http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=4487666&postcount=3 'identitary' non ne prevede altre e quindi sarebbe *'identitary roots'*
http://www.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk/CSC...ies-identity/Workshop_papers/Ballet_radja.pdf

http://books.google.it/books?id=PrpCaJqX0ZQC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=%22identitary+roots%22&source=bl&ots=75tlfhB8sp&sig=IOJ9qYoGigGIOeYyKDEhWGGEESU&hl=it&ei=-CbATKv_GYmSOsWhtf4L&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=%22identitary%20roots%22&f=false


----------



## GavinW

vale_new said:


> Mi sa che la parola suggerita http://forum.wordreference.com/showpost.php?p=4487666&postcount=3 'identitary' non ne prevede altre e quindi sarebbe *'identitary roots'*
> http://www.st-edmunds.cam.ac.uk/CSC...ies-identity/Workshop_papers/Ballet_radja.pdf
> 
> http://books.google.it/books?id=Prp...6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q="identitary roots"&f=false


 
Unfortunately, the references you cite are not reliable. One appears to be a bad translation, presumably from French, by a non-native speaker of English (the Internet is full of such monstrosities). The other link is to an obviously poorly written pseudo-academic text which cannot be taken as a reliable model for natural English. As for post 3 in this thread, I feel Infinite Sadness was simply mistaken or temporarily misled (failing further corroborating evidence).
There may be other more convincing sources and usages for either "identity roots" and "identitarian", but I doubt it.
By the way, for what it's worth, I'm not trying to force my opinion on others, only to offer it...


----------



## Yulan

cesp said:


> Carissimi,
> 
> avrei necessità di tradurre in inglese l'aggettivo "identitario", nell'ambito della seguente frase "le produzioni tipiche come rappresentazioni identitarie".
> 
> Grazie dell'aiuto!


 

Hello Ceps,

I hope I got it right, but it seems to me you are trying to find a proper  English word  in order to express the individualism of such "representations": is this correct?

If so, since "identitario" is an adjective identifying the individuality of  (not better defined) "Productions", why not to use plain words?

I was thinking about:
"typical productions, considered as to be actual representations of a specific individuality." 

Probably the kind of "productions" being discussed would help in finding the most appropriate words.

But I hope it may somehow help you


----------



## GavinW

Yulan said:


> But I hope it may somehow help you


 
More likely, your helpful post may be of interest to others interested in finding ways to translate this adjective: cesp began this thread a long time ago (it's an "old thread")
;-)


----------



## Yulan

Thank you, GavinW 

Yep, I guessed so. 
The problem is that it is so difficult to find out who re-introduced this subject because posts do not specify any dates ...

... you know, I sometimes find "old post-subjects" in "new post-acceptations" and I never know who I am supposed to address my reply to ;-) 

Thank you, that was very kind of you


----------



## GavinW

Yulan said:


> The problem is that it is so difficult to find out who re-introduced this subject because posts do not specify any dates ...


 
Actually, it should be clear: look at the top-left corner of each post, and it gives you the date (and sometimes the time, if same day) when it was posted.....
Spero che risolvi la tua difficoltà nel capire questa cosa!
;-)


----------



## Yulan

Oh, dear GavinW!

You won't believe it, but I never realized that date and even time are clearly "highlighted" in the header of each post.

I must appear to be a very absent-minded person!!! 
Though, I can assure, usually I am not!  

Well, it seems you really have resolved my problem today!

*Thankyou!*


----------



## vale_new

GavinW said:


> My stab (adapting yours):
> 
> XYZ is that magical place where the roots that formed the original identities of peoples and cultures can be found/are to be found. The roots of Italy and of Europe, for example, are a combination/fusion of characteristic elements, a melting-pot of features relating to/involving language, geography, landscape, and agriculture, with a history spanning thousands of years. Places that have inspired poets, scholars and statesmen, stirring popular passions and sentiments, as well as forms of nostalgia for the past, and long-held grudges.
> 
> "Grudges" is the only word I took a risk on, but it sat well in the sentence (insofferenze is hard to interpret specifically).
> HTH


 


GavinW said:


> Unfortunately, the references you cite are not reliable. One appears to be a bad translation, presumably from French, by a non-native speaker of English (the Internet is full of such monstrosities). The other link is to an obviously poorly written pseudo-academic text which cannot be taken as a reliable model for natural English. As for post 3 in this thread, I feel Infinite Sadness was simply mistaken or temporarily misled (failing further corroborating evidence).
> There may be other more convincing sources and usages for either "identity roots" and "identitarian", but I doubt it.
> By the way, for what it's worth, I'm not trying to force my opinion on others, only to offer it...


 
OK, GavinW, grazie davvero. Dirò sinceramente quello che non ho scritto prima: la traduzione che proponi a mio avviso potrebbe sembrare poco accorta ad un lettore che abbia un po' di familiarità con alcuni concetti, tra cui quello di melting-pot, di identità e di radici identitarie, non che io ne abbia particolarmente, altrimenti non avrei avuto bisogno di riaprire il thread. Per cui ti ringrazio davvero, però una volta chiarito che per te le parole *identity something, identitary,* _*identitarian*_ non esistono, per favore, lascia spazio anche a chi la pensa diversamente o eventualmente l'ha letta in qualche paper/essay e può proporre proattivamente una alternativa che abbia un senso. 

Altrimenti più che un forum che potrebbe servire anche ad altri, come il caso di questo thread dove ho potuto trovare  una discussione su una parola e chiedere chiarimenti in merito, diventa una conversazione/battaglia tra te e chi la pensa diversamente, cosa che, francamente vorrei evitare, il mio cruccio essendo la ricerca della parola e non della valutazione di merito sulle capacità linguistiche di studiosi che hanno presentato saggi all'Università di Cambridge, che ho citato tanto per far capire qual è il dubbio e per quale motivo 'the roots that formed the original identities of peoples and cultures' non risolve la questione di fondo: come si può tradurre in inglese *'radici identitarie'*, esiste un'espressione che faccia capire, _con la medesima efficacia dell'italiano, che le radici identitarie sono un concetto ben preciso_? 
Immagino di sì visto che è un concetto spesso e volentieri dibattutto proprio in paesi di lingua inglese (quali USA, GB, AUS, CAN, NZ)che si sono trovati ad affrontare questioni relative all'identità e alle radici


----------



## GavinW

@vale-new: I'm always open to debate. For me it's never a battle. Per carità! The aim is to help any forero, all foreros, not to make mistakes, and to get closer to accuracy. I never deny anyone space to express their views (plenty of space at WR). None of my suggestions or comments are ever meant to be "final". This forum is a collective undertaking. The best translations are the result of teamwork, and pooling knowledge and expertise.
But I warn you: I will always challenge what I think, or know, to be mistakes or imperfections.
And thanks for (finally?) saying what you apparently avoided saying earlier: that you don't agree with some of my ideas: that's a debate, too, and therefore useful to somebody, somewhere. I can't fault you for not agreeing with me, but I could fault you if I believed you were questioning my motives for making contributions and suggestions. I think that's fair. 

Note to Mods: please do not regard this as OT. I think this debate is intrinsic to this thread, and possibly to other threads, and should be left on record. 

Thanks to all, not least to vale_new for challenging things that she legitimately feels require challenging (in the interests of better understanding). The smiley may look dopey, but it's sincere:


----------



## vale_new

Fantastica digressione, ora possiamo tornare nel topic?


----------



## TimLA

Just some thoughts:

XYZ è quel luogo magico dove si trovano le radici identitarie di popoli e culture, le radici dell'Italia e dell'Europa ad esempio è un insieme di particolarità, un grande calderone di differenze linguistiche, geografiche, paesaggistiche, agricole, che hanno molti millenni di storia sulle spalle, luoghi che hanno ispirato poeti, letterati e statisti, scatenato passioni e sentimenti popolari, nostalgie e insofferenze. 

XYZ is a magical place where one finds the roots of people and cultural identity.
XYZ is that magical place where you can find individual and cultural roots.
XYZ is that magical place where individual and cultural roots are to be found.


----------



## vale_new

Ciao TimLa,

Ci fosse stato bisogno di conferma, ora ho capito che la traduzione di identitario è questione assai più complessa di quanto potesse sembrare all'apparenza. 

Individual è individuale ma in base al contesto chissà
Identity è (dell')identità ma necessita di qualche elemento connotante
Forse esiste identitary ma non si sa,
E identitarian quasi sicuramente no. 

Uhm....


----------



## casteddaiu

I found "il patrimonio identitario della città e..." which I translated as "the distinctive heritage of the city and..."


----------



## GavinW

casteddaiu said:


> I found "il patrimonio identitario della città e..." which I translated as "the distinctive heritage of the city and..."



Hi casteddaiu,
Great post. I think that's a fantastic translation.


----------



## anglomania1

Hi there, 
I'd like to reopen this thread because:
1) I need to translate "identitario" too, and
2) I don't feel that a conclusion was reached in previous questions. 

My sentence is:
Dopo l’imbottigliamento a primavera, i vini ricominciano a fermentare dando origine a vini frizzanti tipici e tradizionali del territorio piacentino, con un forte carattere* identitario*.
 I looked in the dictionary, which gives this definition: relativo all'identità socioculturale di un soggetto.

I was wondering if in my case I could simply put "identifying"?? I mean the wine "identifies" this area?
Would that make sense here?
My try:
After bottling in spring, the wines begin a second fermentation to produce typical and traditional sparkling wines from the Piacenza area, with a strong identifying character.

Thanks for any comments or help.
Anglo

Ps I agree that "identitarian" and "identity roots" and "identitary" don't exist in this context (they may exist in specific contexts different to the question being asked in this thread)


----------



## Mary49

Hi,
what about "self-defining"?


----------



## Lorena1970

anglomania1 said:


> My sentence is:
> Dopo l’imbottigliamento a primavera, i vini ricominciano a fermentare dando origine a vini frizzanti tipici e tradizionali del territorio piacentino, con un forte carattere* identitario*.


Hi Anglo,

Identity is used in urban design/architecture to refer to that sense of belonging people have to a certain place.

"con un forte carattere identitario" means " with a strong and peculiar link / connection/ sense of belonging to the place/area identity".

The best way to translate it is up to you, I think. HTH


----------



## johngiovanni

I suggest: "... ,strongly identifying it with the region".


----------



## Lorena1970

johngiovanni said:


> I suggest: "... ,strongly identifying it them with the region".




Or, maybe : ................._strongly conveying its identity /which strongly conveys its identity_


----------



## tsoapm

anglomania1 said:


> dando origine a vini frizzanti tipici e tradizionali del territorio piacentino, con un forte carattere* identitario*.


Looking at the definitions I’ve found, perhaps: “with great cultural resonance”?


----------



## Jackie's mum

After reading this very long thread, I've translated the phrase 
"saperi, conoscenze e tradizioni sempre più interdisciplinari e pluridentitarie" in this way:
"knowledge and traditions that are increasingly interdisciplinary and linked to so many cultural identities".
Hope it can be of help


----------



## Nubivago

After reading this - years after it was started - I'm wondering if the word 'cultural identity markers' or simply 'identity markers' fall into this realm.
Perhaps English uses a different word class where Italian or French use an adjective?


----------



## Ciocapock

How come that in more than 10 years English still doesn't have a word for Identitario? 
I'm looking for a proper translation, too.
The sentence is: "La ritrovata umanità costruisce la coscienza identitaria del nuovo gruppo umano". It's a longer sentence, but this is the main part.

I'd go for: "The rediscovered humanity builds the identity conscience of the new human group". I know it's not perfect, but the sentence is too long and complex, and I shouldn't make it even longer...

(It's an article on architecture and new ways of building and conceiving life at 360° respecting and protecting the environment and finding a renewed human dignity. So, new concepts of housing help in this way.)


----------



## theartichoke

Lorena1970 said:


> Identity is used in urban design/architecture to refer to that sense of belonging people have to a certain place.
> "con un forte carattere identitario" means " with a strong and peculiar link / connection/ sense of belonging to the place/area identity".





Ciocapock said:


> The sentence is: "La ritrovata umanità costruisce la coscienza identitaria del nuovo gruppo umano". It's a longer sentence, but this is the main part.
> I'd go for: "The rediscovered humanity builds the identity conscience of the new human group".
> (It's an article on architecture and new ways of building and conceiving life at 360° respecting and protecting the environment and finding a renewed human dignity. So, new concepts of housing help in this way.)



Hi Ciocapock,

It would take rather a lot of rephrasing, but I feel that the English in this context might involve some version of the expression "a sense of place." But before I give it a try, are you sure that _coscienza _here is _conscience_ and not _consciousness / awareness_? In any case, I'd be mighty puzzled if I came across the phrase "the identity conscience," unless it was fully explained before or after. We may need some extra context (i.e., more of your long sentence) to come up with a good translation.


----------



## Ciocapock

theartichoke said:


> Hi Ciocapock,
> 
> It would take rather a lot of rephrasing, but I feel that the English in this context might involve some version of the expression "a sense of place." But before I give it a try, are you sure that _coscienza _here is _conscience_ and not _consciousness / awareness_? In any case, I'd be mighty puzzled if I came across the phrase "the identity conscience," unless it was fully explained before or after. We may need some extra context (i.e., more of your long sentence) to come up with a good translation.



It's a messy article (11 pages) that needs a lot of rephrasing and it's not clear even in Italian (it's not mine, I need to translate it as it is).
The long sentence is:
"Sul suolo della nuova Arca non esisteranno zone di destinazione d'uso definite nell'accezione moderna di Zoning o nell'accezione contemporanea di aree omogenee di attività antropica. Il 'territorio sopraelevato' come nuova terra vergine moltiplicata, perché rigenerata o perché ritrovata, e la sua esplorazione è la _conditio_ prima dell'insediarsi, del nidificare (dal lat. nidus facere) dell'uomo; l'umanità ritrovata scorre la superficie dell'arca come orda di cacciatori-raccoglitori paleolitici, e così facendo costruisce la coscienza identitaria del nuovo gruppo umano che con l'azione sociale, culturale, tecnologica, trasforma la Neoterra in territorio moltiplicato."

The Ark is a concept of housing with many levels (something like floors), not necessarily limited to residential housing. It's environmentally-friendly for a bunch of reasons. Human beings will rediscover themselves and their dignity, nonetheless their role as gardener/guardian of the planet and stuff like that. They'll overcome our contemporary way of living. They will explore these Arks before living into them. Doing all that (and much much more...), they will recreate mythopoeia and leave behind the "imposed" globalized narrative. And finally, they will build this new conscience. In this case, I think it's conscience and not awareness. It's more profound than awareness. Or at least this is my interpretation.

Apparently, there's a lot more to say, but, believe me, you don't want to know


----------



## marco.cur

Qui ci sono numerosi esempi di traduzione


----------



## Ciocapock

marco.cur said:


> Qui ci sono numerosi esempi di traduzione


Grazie Marco, li avevo visti velocemente stamane, ma io non mi fido di Reverso. In altre occasioni ho notato traduzioni messe a caso e non corrette. Sono della vecchia guardia e mi affido ai dizionari, anche se online per maggiore praticità. Questo forum è più affidabile, mi ha risolto più problemi (posto che in genere faccio un double check dopo avere letto un input). Ma ti ringrazio nuovamente per la tua risposta.


----------



## theartichoke

Ciocapock said:


> ....l'umanità ritrovata scorre la superficie dell'arca come orda di cacciatori-raccoglitori paleolitici, e così facendo costruisce la coscienza identitaria del nuovo gruppo umano che con l'azione sociale, culturale, tecnologica, trasforma la Neoterra in territorio moltiplicato."



Good God. It's like academic prose written by a raving visionary. No wonder you sound fed up.  My first thought is that you could probably use "identity conscience" and it wouldn't lose much in comprehensibility, compared to the original. But let's give it a shot. I can sometimes do a decent job at transforming Italian academese into English academese.

_...human beings, having rediscovered their humanity, scour the Ark's surfaces like a pack of paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and in doing so construct the new human conscience, grounded in a sense of place, that will take action -- socially, culturally, tecnologically -- to transform the New-earth into [whatever "territorio moltiplicato" is]. _Alternatively, how do you like _the new, habitat-based, human conscience_?

Good luck to you. At least it's only 11 pages.


----------



## Ciocapock

theartichoke said:


> Good God. It's like academic prose written by a raving visionary. No wonder you sound fed up.  My first thought is that you could probably use "identity conscience" and it wouldn't lose much in comprehensibility, compared to the original. But let's give it a shot. I can sometimes do a decent job at transforming Italian academese into English academese.
> 
> _...human beings, having rediscovered their humanity, scour the Ark's surfaces like a pack of paleolithic hunter-gatherers, and in doing so construct the new human conscience, grounded in a sense of place, that will take action -- socially, culturally, tecnologically -- to transform the New-earth into [whatever "territorio moltiplicato" is]. _Alternatively, how do you like _the new, habitat-based, human conscience_?


Thank you so much for your translation!  Sounds perfect! Maybe habitat-based is "cooler"  



theartichoke said:


> Good luck to you. At least it's only 11 pages.


----------



## curiosone

Here's a example of the use of 'idenditario' and of how I have attempted to translate it: 

XXX  è una piattaforma di servizi turistici nata con l’ambizione di creare, nelle destinazioni di viaggio di tutto il mondo, comunità di riferimento identitarie e legate dall’attenzione ai principi della sostenibilità. 

My attempt:  
XXX is a platform of tourist services that was born with the ambition of creating (inside the travel destinations of the entire world) communities that become a point of reference for cultural identity, while paying attention to the principles of sustainability.

Any suggestions?  I think the sentence (in English) is far too long, but (thanks to reading various suggestions above), rather like my translation of 'identario' into 'cultural identity.' Thanks in advance for any input.


----------



## london calling

My very loose attempt:

The aim of the tourism services platform XXX when it was developed was to create worldwide communities of like-minded travellers who identify  with the principles of sustainability.


----------



## anglomania1

Hi everyone,
I never felt we really cracked this one!
I also think that we need different solutions according to the sentence and context.
Many of the suggestions above are great, but not in all situations.

I have come across this awful "identitario" once again. My context is Amarone wine so there is nothing mentioned to "identify" it with. 
I'm translating a wine tech sheet and here : Vino *identitario*, di personalità, in cui l’eleganza prevale sempre sulla potenza.

In my case, could "*iconic* wine" work? 

It's just a thought. There is no real sentence to play with, to rearrange etc, "identitario" is just used as an adjective with no connection to anything in particular. 

Let me know your thoughts and comments, 
thanks, 
anglo


----------



## Benzene

_Hello anglo!
The use of the adjective "identitario" in the wine sector seems to me to be forcing. The term is mainly used in psychology and means "which refers to everyone's psychological identity."
So, I suggest "peculiar/singular wine."
I prefer the adjective "peculiar" because I associate it with the meaning of "which belongs to the intimate nature of a given thing".
Iconico/iconic means "associated  with the image or based on the image." I would therefore dismiss it out of hand.

Bye,
*Benzene*_


----------



## anglomania1

Benzene said:


> _Hello anglo!
> The use of the adjective "identitario" in the wine sector seems to me to be forcing. The term is mainly used in psychology and means "which refers to everyone's psychological identity."
> So, I suggest "peculiar/singular wine."
> I prefer the adjective "peculiar" because I associate it with the meaning of "which belongs to the intimate nature of a given thing".
> Iconico/iconic means "associated  with the image or based on the image." I would therefore dismiss it out of hand.
> 
> Bye,
> *Benzene*_


Hello Benzene, 
thanks!
I used iconic as being a symbol of the area (part of its identity)
anglo


----------



## metazoan

Benzene said:


> _I prefer the adjective "peculiar" because I associate it with the meaning of "which belongs to the intimate nature of a given thing"._


That's good thinking, Ben, but _peculiar_ often has a slightly negative connotation. Calling a wine peculiar would probably mean finding it mildly distasteful. _Singular_ instead usually has a positive meaning, much like _unique_.
Anyway I think Anglo is aiming more for the identification that (local) people have with the wine than the identifying characteristics of the wine. Maybe rearranging to the noun phrase _regional icon_?


----------



## anglomania1

metazoan said:


> That's good thinking, Ben, but _peculiar_ often has a slightly negative connotation. Calling a wine peculiar would probably mean finding it mildly distasteful. _Singular_ instead usually has a positive meaning, much like _unique_.
> Anyway I think Anglo is aiming more for the identification that (local) people have with the wine than the identifying characteristics of the wine. Maybe rearranging to the noun phrase _regional icon_?


Thanks!


----------



## curiosone

Benzene said:


> _Hello anglo!
> The use of the adjective "identitario" in the wine sector seems to me to be forcing. The term is mainly used in psychology and means "which refers to everyone's psychological identity."
> So, I suggest "peculiar/singular wine."
> I prefer the adjective "peculiar" because I associate it with the meaning of "which belongs to the intimate nature of a given thing".
> Iconico/iconic means "associated  with the image or based on the image." I would therefore dismiss it out of hand.
> 
> Bye,
> *Benzene*_


Hi Benzene.  I'd avoid calling a wine 'peculiar,' especially if one hopes to sell it.  'Peculiar' can have negative connocations in English (in the sense of 'strange').  Instead I'd suggest using the term 'distinctive.'

edit: OOPS! Looks like we all feel peculiar about drinking peculiar wine.  I still like the sound of 'distinctive wine' better than 'iconic'.


----------



## Kali123

I'll add another example I'm grappling with. This is an introduction to a new guidebook to Venice called "Venezia Maxima". It includes personal accounts from many famous people:

Ecco perché in Venezia Maxima ci siamo fidati molto dei racconti, _gelosamente identitari_, che ci hanno consegnato artisti e registi come ... (followed by a long list of actors and directors)

My attempt:

That’s why in Venezia Maxima we’ve placed great trust in the _uniquely personal_ experiences supplied by artists and directors of the calibre of …


----------



## theartichoke

Kali123 said:


> That’s why in Venezia Maxima we’ve placed great trust in the _uniquely personal_ experiences supplied by artists and directors of the calibre of …



How do you feel about "intensely personal stories"? That said, I'm assuming along with you that "identitari" here refers to the _identità _of the writers and not that of Venice. Hopefully a native speaker can confirm.


----------



## Kali123

theartichoke said:


> How do you feel about "intensely personal stories"? That said, I'm assuming along with you that "identitari" here refers to the _identità _of the writers and not that of Venice. Hopefully a native speaker can confirm.


Sounds great to me. And _stories _has a nicer ring to it than _experiences._ Agreed...hope a native speaker can confirm that we're in the right ball park with the sense!


----------



## Pietruzzo

Apparently, Venice has deeply shaped those famous people's  personality.


----------



## london calling

Pietruzzo said:


> Apparently, Venice has deeply shaped those famous people's  personality.


Which is not what the English translation which Kali provided means. So it's incorrect. 


Kali123 said:


> My attempt:
> 
> That’s why in Venezia Maxima we’ve placed great trust in the _uniquely personal_ experiences supplied by artists and directors of the calibre of …


----------



## Benzene

london calling said:


> Which is not what the English translation which Kali provided means. So it's incorrect.


_This version came to me: "That is why, at 'Venezia Maxima', we were confident in the *one-of-a-kind* experiences provided by artists and directors of the level of...".
All comments are welcome!

Bye,
*Benzene*_


----------



## london calling

Ok, so _Venezia Maxima_ is a guide book. The sentence Kali quotes is here (La Repubblica).


----------

