# De taal van Vondel



## PiotrR

Hello. Is there a reason why you don't say _De taal van *Van den* Vondel_, but just _De taal van Vondel_?


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## Peterdg

Because we are lazy


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## PiotrR

Is it related to the archaic cases in Dutch though? You dropped them relatively recently.


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## bibibiben

PiotrR said:


> Is it related to the archaic cases in Dutch though? You dropped them relatively recently.



It's not related. You're not just dropping a case, you're dropping a preposition with an article that's part of a proper name. Which is extremely exceptional. In fact, I don't know any other proper name that loses its affix 'van den' (or 'van de', 'van der', 'van het' etc.) when standing alone. The reason why this came about could be that the name lacked stability during Vondel's lifetime : "Het woord _Vondel_, ook _vonder_ of _vlondel_, beteekent eigenlijk een _brugje_. *De dichter zelf en zijn tijdgenooten schrijven nu eens Vondel, van Vondel, van den Vondel, dan weer van Vondelen, van der Vondelen Of ook wel Vondelens, van Vondelens.*"  [http://www.gutenberg.org/files/21800/21800-h/21800-h.htm#Footnote_8_8]

By the way, I noticed that the Dutch Wikipedia article on Vondel consistently writes 'Van den Vondel', which is an uncommon practice.


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## Peterdg

bibibiben said:


> It's not related. You're not just dropping a case, you're dropping a preposition with an article that's part of a proper name. Which is extremely exceptional. In fact, I don't know any other proper name that loses its affix.


Beethoven.


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## bibibiben

Peterdg said:


> Beethoven.



Beethoven may have had Flemish ancestors, he is a German. In German names, the particle is always dropped when the surname is cited alone. Particles in Dutch and Belgian names can’t be dropped, Vondel being a notable exception. This may be an interesting link: http://blogs.bournemouth.ac.uk/rese...h-flemish-german-names-in-the-harvard-system/. Or look up page 558 of Garner’s Modern American Usage  (Google Books).


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## PiotrR

Ok, thanks.


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