# Ceci n'est pas une vache laitiere



## thrillme

hi there, could anyone tell me if this is the correct way to say
This is not a dairy bull


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## Jean-Michel Carrère

'vache laitière' means 'dairy *cow*, not dairy bull. I have no idea whatsoever what a dairy bull is.


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## Gil

I suppose there is a bull in a "dairy herd" (troupeau de vaches laitières) but it seems to me we would hurt his pride by calling him "taureau laitier" ou "boeuf laitier".  J'espère qu'il y a quelques éleveurs parmi nous.  Maybe our Texan friends could help.


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## LV4-26

Un taureau de race laitière ?

Bof


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## timpeac

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Un taureau de race laitière ?
> 
> Bof


 
Ou bien Boeuf?


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## Gil

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Un taureau de race laitière ?
> 
> Bof



Ça ménagerait probablement sa susceptibilité...


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## thrillme

thanks for the responses,


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## Jabote

Wait a minute, I'm thinking maybe there is a misunderstanding about "vache laitière"... Could it not be "une vache à lait", which is obviously an expression .? ... Because I have never heard of a taureau de race laitière.... but then I'm no breeder either...

So I'm just raising a question....


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## Gil

Jabote said:
			
		

> Wait a minute, I'm thinking maybe there is a misunderstanding about "vache laitière"... Could it not be "une vache à lait", which is obviously an expression .? ... Because I have never heard of a taureau de race laitière.... but then I'm no breeder either...
> 
> So I'm just raising a question....



I have never heard of a dairy bull....  I'm no breeder, but I suspect it can hardly be a "vache à lait".


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## sophievm

D'après les recherches que je viens de faire sur google (exemple : http://www.tumpline.com/stackyard/news/2005/02/dairy_bull_beef.html), il apparaît que ce que les anglophones appellent "dairy bull" c'est tout simplement ce que nous on appelle les races laitières.


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## thrillme

I am starting a dialog with Michel Focault ie.Ceci n'est pas une pipe,
i have an abtact, cubist painting of a fresian bull and wanted to write :Ceci n'est pas une dairy bull, so i would like the correct phrasiology for the purpose stated. i am not particular, so long as the correct gramma etcetera are used.

mon amie


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## Jabote

Gil said:
			
		

> I have never heard of a dairy bull.... I'm no breeder, but I suspect it can hardly be a "vache à lait".


 
Gil that's what I meant....

A bull cannot give milk, that's why I was wondering if the "vache laitière" referred to could not be a "vache à lait" which would have been the expression and not the animal per se... But the explanation came just with the post following yours.


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## Agnès E.

Then just say "ceci n'est pas une vache laitière". No need to specify more.

Jabote & Gil, see what I found on the web :

*Lucy Ward, Political Correspondent*
*Tuesday September 28, 1999*
*Guardian*

Farmers' leaders lobbying the Labour conference in Bournemouth yesterday secured a meeting with the agriculture minister, Nick Brown, but no further cash help.  More than 2,000 protesters - most wearing green wellingtons, waxed jackets and flat caps - marched through the town to rally outside the seafront centre. The march went ahead despite Mr Brown's pledge of £150m to help farmers struggling amid plummeting sheep and cattle prices. 

The NFU president, Ben Gill, led the procession as farmers who had travelled from around the UK shouted "Blair go away", to the sound of hunting horns and drums. 

He told farmers: "In the last few months we have faced one of our most difficult times and suffered real hardship. Now they are calling us whingeing farmers and this is something we need to tackle head on." 

Mr Brown, speaking at the conference, promised not to let the industry go to the wall in the face of falling prices and said he would "bear down" on "unnecessary, restrictive and inefficient regulations" in the industry. 

He later met Mr Gill at Bournemouth's Highcliff hotel but said there would be no new announcement on help for the industry this week. 

David Williams, 61, a dairy farmer, from Cursley in Gloucestershire, said he was happy the minister had entered into dialogue. 

"*I have to slaughter my dairy bull calves and it is horrible*. We sit up half the night bringing them into the world and then they have to be shot. All this is very distressing and I can't sleep at night."  

Guardian Unlimited © Guardian Newspapers Limited 2005


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## thrillme

here is my painting


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## LV4-26

thrillme said:
			
		

> I am starting a dialog with Michel Focault ie.Ceci n'est pas une pipe,
> i have an abtact, cubist painting of a fresian bull and wanted to write :Ceci n'est pas une dairy bull, so i would like the correct phrasiology for the purpose stated. i am not particular, so long as the correct gramma etcetera are used.
> 
> mon amie


Now we're getting somewhere.
I've just realized that most of the people who replied are French speakers.
So an important element is missing so as to be able to translate the expression : thrillme, is "dairy bull" generally used in english (australian or otherwise) or is it just "purpose-made" by yourself ?

EDIT : sorry, the post from Agnes came while I was typing this one.
So I take it that the expression already exists.
Would "ceci n'est pas un taureau" work ? Or do you want to stress the fact that it is not a dairy bull but another kind of bull ?


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## thrillme

it is an english expression, but used only by farmers etc.


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## Jabote

LV4-26 said:
			
		

> Would "ceci n'est pas un taureau" work ? Or do you want to stress the fact that it is not a dairy bull but another kind of bull ?


 
Ceci n'est pas un taureau means that it is not a bull, period. Could be a cat, a dog whatever but not a bull.

Now "this is not a dairy bull" would, from what I understand from all previous posts, translate to "ce n'est pas un taureau de race laitière".


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## thrillme

Well that is the tricky bit, i suppose it could be any bull, however that is not the point of the statement, there are lots of interpretations of Focaults statement "this is not a pipe", indeed it is sugested  pipe was or is slang for "blowjob", the point is, it is a painting and not an animal. the other thing i want to avoid is the descriptor tuareu, it is too obvious, if you can see what i mean.


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## LV4-26

thrillme said:
			
		

> "this is not a pipe", indeed it is sugested pipe was or is slang for "blowjob"


My goodness, your knowledge of the French language is much better than I'd thought!
What you say completely changes my own analysis of this painting . I mean it. I had never thought of that interpretation.


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## thrillme

My grasp of the french language is very limited, i only knew that particular slang from studying Focault, other than that it is purely polite responses such as bonjour etc.


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## Agnès E.

Perhaps could you say "ceci n'est pas une peau de vache"; "une peau de vache" is a slang word for "a nasty person". 
Then you also have several levels of meaning in one title, not so obvious !


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## tchev

Unless "dairy bull" really has a double meaning, I think "vache laitière" is fine for your translation.

Besides, "taureau" generaly refers to the black wild bull/cow (those used in bullfighting (tauromachie) in Spain/Southern France), whilst "vache" refers to the farm bull/cow.


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## thrillme

does "peau de vache" translate as nasty cow ?


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## Agnès E.

I do not think it has anything to do with a cow in English, as it just means "a nasty person". "A nasty cow" would be "une méchante vache", well, it has not much sense, has it ?
I just tried and give you a possible title comprising the word "cow" and some double sense... because I could not find something equivalent with the word "taureau" (or perhaps "ceci n'est pas un taureau à prendre par les cornes", coming from the phrase "prendre le taureau par les cornes" (to take the bull by the horns), but I prefered the other one with "vache".


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## thrillme

thank you all very much for your insight, i think i shall use "Ceci n'est pas une vache laitiere", and let the viewer try to work it out, well get them thinking anyway.
once again thanks for your input.

regards, James


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## Gil

thrillme said:
			
		

> here is my painting



Ceci n'est pas une vacherie.

Ce serait un autre genre d'humour.  Tombe-t-il à plat?  Trop forcé?


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## tchev

thrillme said:
			
		

> does "peau de vache" translate as nasty cow ?


"peau de vache" literally translates as "cow hide", and means "nasty person" in slang.


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## Agnès E.

Gil said:
			
		

> Ceci n'est pas une vacherie.
> 
> Ce serait un autre genre d'humour.  Tombe-t-il à plat?  Trop forcé?



I do like it, Gil ! That's another very nice possibility !


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## thrillme

may i have an english translation please."Ceci n'est pas une vacherie"


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## Agnès E.

Rottenness, dirty trick
But also cowshed, byre (according to my Robert & Collins dictionary).


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## Gil

thrillme said:
			
		

> may i have an english translation please."Ceci n'est pas une vacherie"



According to Harrap's
vacherie 
[vaòri] nf 
Familier (action) dirty trick; (remarque) nasty remark
elle lui a fait/dit une vacherie 
she played a dirty trick on him/made a nasty remark to him
il est d'une vacherie terrible 
he's a really nasty customer, he's rotten to the core
vacherie de voiture! 
bloody or damn car!

Copyright © 2000, Harrap's Multimedia, © 2000, Havas Interactive


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## Agnès E.

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Perhaps could you say "ceci n'est pas une peau de vache"; "une peau de vache" is a slang word for "a nasty person".
> Then you also have several levels of meaning in one title, not so obvious !



Not that I intend to insist on MY idea, but "une peau de vache" can also mean (taken "word by word") a cow skin. As your painting does not show the whole volume, because it is not a purely descriptive one but an abstract one, I found the idea nice. 
Well, it was just a suggestion.


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## Jabote

Agnes E. said:
			
		

> Not that I intend to insist on MY idea, but "une peau de vache" can also mean (taken "word by word") a cow skin. As your painting does not show the whole volume, because it is not a purely descriptive one but an abstract one, I found the idea nice.
> Well, it was just a suggestion.


 
Agree 100% with Agnes.


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## Cath.S.

L'art de la surenchère:  

"Ceci n'est pas une jolie fleur."
Georges Brassens, anyone?


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## la grive solitaire

"Une peau de vache"--sounds perfect.  I've come in on this late, but if perchance you're still looking for an equivalent for "dairy bull", the bilingual translation of it according to Holstein Canada is quite simply, un taureau.  It's at:   holstein.ca


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## Gil

Dommage que thrillme ne vienne pas des US of A.  Je serais assez vicieux pour proposer:

"Elle n'est pas folle...juste vache".
Mais à tout prendre, moi aussi je préfère "Ceci n'est pas une peau de vache"


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## thrillme

how about "Ceci n'est pas une peau de vache", would that translate to "this is not a cow skin", i could live with that. also is this what Gil has just said in the last post?


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## Gil

thrillme said:
			
		

> how about "Ceci n'est pas une peau de vache", would that translate to "this is not a cow skin", i could live with that. also is this what Gil has just said in the last post?



I said that I agreed this was the best suggestion so far.  Your translation is O.K.  provided you understand it also means "This is not a nasty person".

The rest of my post was an attempt to exploit the mad cow disease problem between U.S.A and Canada.  I think it is in bad taste and should not be considered a serious suggestion.  Good luck with your "peau de vache",


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