# vida de mulher (fácil)



## utrehou

Dear friends, caros amigos: one more and then I will try to stop for the day, meu Deus! 

In the same book, the former prostitute Madama Carlota says: 

"Olha, quando eu era mais moça tinha bastante categoria para levar vida fácil de mulher. E era fácil mesmo, graças a Deus." 

My question is: when she says "tinha bastante categoria," is she referring to her "categoria" as a prostitute? I.e., she was so good-looking that she could earn an easy living? 

And does "de mulher" mean that her life as a woman was easy (e.g. levava uma vida de dama, uma vida elegante), or that her life as a prostitute was easy (e.g. ganhava bem como mulher)? 

My first guess would be: "Look, when I was younger I was sought-after enough to live an easy life as a lady."  (Or something, depending on your answers.)

Obrigado.


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## mglenadel

"Categoria" would mean not so much good looking, but also skilled in the "horizontal arts".

"Look, when I was younger I was sought-after enough to live the easy life. And it was an easy life."


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## zefirus

Personally, I think "mulher fácil" is widespread known (no Brasil, pelo menos) as a reference to hookers, prostitutes and so on.

Your account of "categoria" is perfect.

Z


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## Ariel Knightly

Acho provável sim que por _vida fácil de mulher_ o pretendido tenha sido o mesmo que _vida de mulher fácil _mesmo. A forma como ficou no livro não me parece idiomática em português - mas isso é normal em literatura. Agora, a mulher pode ser fácil, mas a vida normalmente não é. 

Quanto à expressão _ter categoria suficiente_, apostaria que quer dizer _to be skilled enough_.


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## mglenadel

Clarisse used "vida fácil de mulher" because "vida fácil de mulher de vida fácil" would be repetitively redundant. In English there is no equal expression, though "_the_ easy life" can be construed as meaning exactly that.


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## William Stein

Maybe,

When I was younger I had what it takes to make living easy. And it was easy living.

That doesn't include "mulher de vida facil" part but that's clear from the context in your book, I think.


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## Ariel Knightly

William Stein said:


> When I was younger I had what it takes to make living easy. And it was easy living.


Beautiful!


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## utrehou

Thanks to everyone. It's not an easy sentence but then Clarice rarely is. My only worry about "easy living" is that to me it sounds like "Summertime/and the living is easy"/holidays/etc. rather than the "vida fácil" with its sexual connotations in Portuguese. Enfim. Obrigado!


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## Vanda

I've seen ''lady of easy virtue, lady of pleasure, lady of the night.


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## Ariel Knightly

utrehou said:


> Thanks to everyone. It's not an easy sentence but then Clarice rarely is. My only worry about "easy living" is that to me it sounds like "Summertime/and the living is easy"/holidays/etc. rather than the "vida fácil" with its sexual connotations in Portuguese. Enfim. Obrigado!


Well, to me, _vida fácil_ doesn't necessarily have that sexual connotation; _mulher fácil_ does. As I said, Clarice seems to have inverted the standard expression into something that sounds less explicit.


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## Vanda

Vida fácil for us is a very known methafor for prostitution.


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## Ariel Knightly

Vanda said:


> Vida fácil for us is a very known methafor for prostitution.


Necessarily?...

Podia jurar que _vida fácil_ normalmente sugere "vida de quem não precisa trabalhar", "vida mansa", "vida de gente muito rica" etc. Ou seja, não sugere primeiramente nem exclusivamente "vida de meretrício".


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## Vanda

Sorry, I should have added : mulher.

Vida fácil por vida fácil: la dolce vita!


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## William Stein

It's true that prositutes tend to talk about their work as a normal job (and rightly so, if you ask me), rather than making a big point of being a prosititute


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## Ariel Knightly

Are you sure Clarice didn't just invent it? I googled _vida fácil de mulher_ and only found hits from Clarice's book. These are some exceptions:

_HAHAHAHA então ela vai morrer de fome, a *vida fácil* de mulher de traficante tá acabando...

Ela tem raiva do pai pq ele deve ter dado uma pisa nela﻿ e expulsado ela de casa quando ela resolveu tentar a *vida fácil *de mulher de jogadores de futebol,..._

In the examples above, though, _vida fácil_ is still referring to that happy and comfortable life with few problems.


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## Carfer

_'Vida fácil'_, para nós aqui em Portugal, também não tem necessariamente uma conotação sexual. Pode haver algum deboche - e geralmente há, faz parte da tal facilidade que permite a quem dela beneficia obter aquilo que para os outros não é tão simples de conseguir - mas o sentido habitual é o que indica o Ariel, a vida de quem não precisa de trabalhar. Note-se, no entanto, que viver de expedientes também é considerado _'vida fácil' _e não se aplica só a mulheres. Em todo o caso, não é o português de Portugal que está a ser discutido, mas pode interessar como referência futura.


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## William Stein

In English, too, there are expressions like "a woman of easy morals" but that's the kind of thing only a moralistic person would say, a prostitute would never use that expression (except ironically). The "easy life" or "easy living" has nothing in particular to do with prostitution, except in the general sense explained by Carfer.


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## Ariel Knightly

William Stein said:


> In English, too, there are expressions like "a woman of easy morals" but that's the kind of thing only a moralistic person would say, a prostitute would never use that expression (except ironically). The "easy life" or "easy living" has nothing in particular to do with prostitution, except in the general sense explained by Carfer.


Then the translation you suggested above still seems to be more than perfect...


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## utrehou

In English and, as far as I can tell from what you are saying, in Portuguese, vida fácil, the good/easy life, does not suggest anything about sex. It means, as many of you have said, the good live, a vida mansa, sem ter que trabalhar. 

But that still leaves us with the question of Clarice's odd construction. Most of Clarice's constructions are odd, of course, which is what makes her both such a fascinating writer and such a difficult one to translate. If we agree on "vida fácil" we are still left with the last part, "vida fácil de mulher." 

A woman's easy life? Or perhaps better, an easy life for a woman? 

Alguma ideia?


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## Ariel Knightly

utrehou said:


> In English and, as far as I can tell from what you are saying, in Portuguese, vida fácil, the good/easy life, does not suggest anything about sex. It means, as many of you have said, the good live, a vida mansa, sem ter que trabalhar.
> 
> But that still leaves us with the question of Clarice's odd construction. Most of Clarice's constructions are odd, of course, which is what makes her both such a fascinating writer and such a difficult one to translate. If we agree on "vida fácil" we are still left with the last part, "vida fácil de mulher."
> 
> A woman's easy life? Or perhaps better, an easy life for a woman?
> 
> Alguma ideia?


To me, she might have just invented a new expression by inverting an existing one and leaving its former meaning less explicit. The original expression was _vida de mulher fácil_ and it means something similar to _a whore's life_. The one she invented is _vida fácil de mulher_ and it seems to focus on the easy aspect of her life, without stressing the fact that she was a prostitute.
----
And I still like William's translation.


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## William Stein

That's a good analysis, Ariel (and thanks for compliments!). Maybe, then, as utrehous suggests, "the easy life for a woman" (as opposed to washing dishes and having lots of babies, or maybe working in the fields).


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## Ariel Knightly

William Stein said:


> That's a good analysis, Ariel (and thanks for compliments!). Maybe, then, as utrehous suggests, "the easy life for a woman" (as opposed to washing dishes and having lots of babies, or maybe working in the fields).


And the reader would have to decide what's meant by "the easy life for a woman." Perfect!


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## Audie

Vanda said:


> Sorry, I should have added : mulher.
> 
> Vida fácil por vida fácil: la dolce vita!





Ariel Knightly said:


> To me, she might have just invented a new expression by inverting an existing one and leaving its former meaning less explicit. The original expression was _vida de mulher fácil_ and it means something similar to _a whore's life_. The one she invented is _vida fácil de mulher_ and it seems to focus on the easy aspect of her life, without stressing the fact that she was a prostitute.
> ----
> And I still like William's translation.


By "the original expression" wouldn't you mean '_mulher de vida fácil'_, which I think was what Vanda meant in the post above?


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## Ariel Knightly

Audierunt said:


> By "the original expression" wouldn't you mean '_mulher de vida fácil'_, which I think was what Vanda meant in the post above?


No, I really meant _vida de mulher fácil_ because I had the expression _mulher fácil_ in mind. But you're right, _mulher de vida fácil_ is probably the original phrase whose inversion resulted in the formation of _vida fácil de mulher_, which doesn't seem to have any explicit sexual connotation. I don't think it changes the quality of the translations suggested by William and Utrehou, though.


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## Vós

Não li o livro, mas a prostituição não é vida fácil (para as que se vendem por pouco) é necessário ter categoria para cobrar caro e fazer ter custo-benefício.

Daí a habilidade dela.


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