# 幸死



## RobertoDole

How would you pronounce this Japanese name (my friend is trying to write a manga and he likes the look of the characters) 幸死?


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## Flaminius

Maybe _Kōji_?  It is a very weird name, though.


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## Toseii

In Chinese, it pronouced *shinshi.*


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## fioif

ギョウシ? Gyoushi
Actually has never seen this name before


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## RobertoDole

fioif said:


> ギョウシ? Gyoushi
> Actually has never seen this name before


Well that's because my friend doesn't speak any Japanese, he just likes how the characters look together.


Flaminius said:


> Maybe _Kōji_? It is a very weird name, though.


Oh I know it'd be a weird name, but I doubt the manga will be very normal.
By the way, how did you get _ji_ and _gyou_? I looked in the wwwjdic (my favorite source for this type of stuff) and it didn't give _ji_ as a pronunciation of 死 (though it gave _shi_) and it didn't give _gyou_ as a pronunciation of 幸 (though it gave _kou_)



			
				Toseii said:
			
		

> In Chinese, it pronouced *shinshi.*


Do you mean the on'yomi, or do you mean actually speaking in Chinese, because i thought 死 was _si_ in Chinese...


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## Toseii

RobertoDole said:


> Do you mean the on'yomi, or do you mean actually speaking in Chinese, because i thought 死 was _si_ in Chinese...


 
Yes, it is pronounced _*si*_ in Chinese.  I just think that the Chinese pronunciation may be sounds good for the *幸死* when it pronounced in Japanese *kunndoku (訓読)*。


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## Flaminius

RobertoDole said:


> By the way, how did you get _ji_ and _gyou_?



Let me explain the pronunciation _ji_ for 死.  Japanese voiceless consonants often get voiced when placed between vowels.  In case of _shi_, the consonant is surrounded by vowels if a morpheme is attached in front of it.  Thus 生死 is usually _sēshi_ but _shōji_ in literally or Buddhist contexts.

I suggested the reading _Kōji_ because it is fairly a reasonable expectation for the character combination, and it is a very common men's name in Japanese (whatever the script representation may be).

I don't think 幸 can be read _gyō_ (mangling *fioif*'s transcription method).  There is a similar character 圉 (prison cell or stable attendant, coachman) but the vowel is always short (_gyο_).



Toseii said:


> Yes, it is pronounced _*si*_ in Chinese.  I just think that the Chinese pronunciation may be sounds good for the *幸死* when it pronounced in Japanese *kunndoku (訓読)*。



_Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or translating a Chinese text according the _kambun_ conventions.  The _kun_-readings of 幸 are; _sachi_, _yuki_, _miyuki_ etc.


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## Toseii

Flaminius said:


> _Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or translating a Chinese text according the _kambun_ conventions. The _kun_-readings of 幸 are; _sachi_, _yuki_, _miyuki_ etc.


 

Thanks a lot. In actuality, it's hard for me to pick 訓読 and 音読 out.


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## RobertoDole

Flaminius said:


> _Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or translating a Chinese text according the _kambun_ conventions. The _kun_-readings of 幸 are; _sachi_, _yuki_, _miyuki_ etc.


So is _kundoku_ any different from the _kun'yomi_?


Toseii said:


> Yes, it is pronounced _*si*_ in Chinese. I just think that the Chinese pronunciation may be sounds good for the *幸死* when it pronounced in Japanese *kunndoku (訓読)*。


I think I get it, you're saying you think the _on'yomi (音読み)_ (which is read as _shinshi)_ sounds better than the *kunndoku (訓読)*, right?


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## fioif

RobertoDole said:


> So is _kundoku_ any different from the _kun'yomi_?
> 
> I think I get it, you're saying you think the _on'yomi (音読み)_ (which is read as _shinshi)_ sounds better than the *kunndoku (訓読)*, right?



Hi,

I think there's no significant differece. 訓読み(kun'yomi) is the "kun'yomi" form of the 訓読(kundoku).

And about these two forms, kunndoku sounds more or less to the ancient Chinese language of Zhe Jiang, Wen Zhou and other areas around them. No one is better, just two forms


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## RobertoDole

fioif said:


> Hi,
> 
> I think there's no significant differece. 訓読み(kun'yomi) is the "kun'yomi" form of the 訓読(kundoku).


 That's what I *think* as well, but I want to find someone who's sure.


fioif said:


> And about these two forms, kunndoku sounds more or less to the ancient Chinese language of Zhe Jiang, Wen Zhou and other areas around them. No one is better, just two forms


 Oh I understand neither is inherently "better" than the other, I'm just saying that I think Toseii is saying that he likes the sound of the on'yomi better than the sound of the kundoku/kun'yomi in this case (not necessarily in others).


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## Flaminius

RobertoDole said:


> Flaminius said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or translating a Chinese text according the _kambun_ conventions. The _kun_-readings of 幸 are; _sachi_, _yuki_, _miyuki_ etc.
> 
> 
> 
> So is _kundoku_ any different from the _kun'yomi_?
Click to expand...

The first sense of _kundoku_ is identical to that of _kuňyomi_.



fioif said:


> And about these two forms, kunndoku sounds more or less to the ancient Chinese language of Zhe Jiang, Wen Zhou and other areas around them. No one is better, just two forms


I assume you are talking about _oňyomi_ and _kuňyomi_ (by the way, _kundoku_ should be spelt with one <n>).  It is true _oňyomi_ conventions incorporate a lot of pronunciations from southern varieties of Chinese but other varieties have a fair share of their contributions (This can be discussed in a new loooong thread).

More important than which convention (_kun_, _on_ or any subcategories thereof) should be followed is to make a plausible Japanese name out of the discussed characters.  Nobody has asked but the manga author intends this to be a Japanese name, no?

I think _Kōji_ and _Yukiji_ are plausible enough readings.


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## RobertoDole

Flaminius said:


> The first sense of _kundoku_ is identical to that of _kuňyomi_.


So there's another sense of _kundoku_?


Flaminius said:


> More important than which convention (_kun_, _on_ or any subcategories thereof) should be followed is to make a plausible Japanese name out of the discussed characters. Nobody has asked but the manga author intends this to be a Japanese name, no?


Yes, this is true.


Flaminius said:


> I think _Kōji_ and _Yukiji_ are plausible enough readings.


 I agree, these both sound good to me  now I just need to tell him  Thanks everyone!


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## Flaminius

RobertoDole said:


> So there's another sense of _kundoku_?





Flaminius said:


> _Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or *translating a Chinese text according the kambun conventions*.


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## RobertoDole

Flaminius said:


> I suggested the reading _Kōji_ because it is fairly a reasonable expectation for the character combination, and it is a very common men's name in Japanese (whatever the script representation may be).


 Shoot! I forgot, the character with this name is a woman! >.>


Flaminius said:


> _Kundoku_ (訓読; one <n> suffices) is either reading a Chinese character by its _kun_-reading or *translating a Chinese text according the kambun conventions.*


 Ahh, I'll have to look into these "_kambun_ conventions."


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## Arashi

RobertoDole said:


> Shoot! I forgot, the character with this name is a woman! >.>


 
I think a lot of modern manga use male names for female characters. It gives sort of an independant or rebellious look to the character.

Would it be crazy or unreasonable to mix on'yomi and kun'yomi?

Also, how often is 死 used in names? It seems like a character that would be avoided (but don't get me wrong, it could be pretty interesting to have it in your name).


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## RobertoDole

Arashi said:


> I think a lot of modern manga use male names for female characters. It gives sort of an independant or rebellious look to the character.


 Hmm, I'll tell him that, but he seems to favor Yukiji anyway.  She might have a son though, so she might name him Kouji 



Arashi said:


> Would it be crazy or unreasonable to mix on'yomi and kun'yomi?


If I'm not mistaken then within one word, yes, it would (I'm definitely not 100% sure, maybe start a thread for this question?)



Arashi said:


> Also, how often is 死 used in names? It seems like a character that would be avoided (but don't get me wrong, it could be pretty interesting to have it in your name).


 I'm unsure as well, but I have few doubts that that character is avoided like the plague when naming a child.  I mean it's probably something along the lines of naming your English-speaking child "Infant Mortality," or something like that.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
It is because *fiction*.
In our real world, in our real Japan, we must not encounter the name;幸死.

Decent parents should not name their son that name.

About 10-20 years ago, a certain parents tried to name their son, 悪魔（devil).
But the register official refused to accept that name, for the baby's sake.
The parents insisted that they had the right to name their son, as they wish, no matter what the bad name is.
It became a court case.

I don't remember the court decision well, but if I remember it correctly, the child's name was not 悪魔, after all.

If some parents try to name their child such kind of name, everybody around them including officials would try to persuade them not to do so.


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