# Swedish: Herr



## Eleanor Shin

Hello,

Well, I'm a Korean, writing a short novel for my friend, and I have one line of swedish sentence. The situation, two people are talking, and each other's not very friendly. (rather awkward) So I wanna make them express polite word to each other. 

In _To Kill a Mockingbird_, Scout uses 'Sir.' to her father, for polite expression. So I searched for the word Sir and Mr. in English-Swedish Dictionary. But the result was same. Both Sir and Mr were written 'Herr.' in Swedish. But I really have to distinguish Sir and Mr in Swedish.

I once asked about this to my friends. But one of my friends says that Swedish people are not using the word 'Herr.' so much. (That it is only used to call Royal Family)

Then in Swedish, is there any word for Sir? Is it that awkward to use Herr for common use?


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## Plopp

"Is it that awkward to use Herr for common use?" Yes! Since the 1960's, the Swedes tend to be more and more informal and though we have formal, polite expressions we don't always like to use them. The words for Mr, Mrs, Miss, Sir, Madam are never used, I would dare say. Except perhaps in extremely formal situations, like for instance, adressing the chairman of the Parliament with 'Herr/Fru Talman'. I use Mr and Mrs for joking with my friends 'Now, listen, Mrs Karlsson, what do you mean by that?'...
When I meet someone for the first time, if it's workrelated, I say my full name and then they immediately use my first name. If it's a less formal situation I just say my first name. 
So, to conclude, I'm sorry, but your task is impossible. You can't have a son or daughter call their father 'Sir' in Swedish! I just recall that in some parts of Sweden, there are people who adress their parents by using the words 'Far' and 'Mor' instead of the more frequent and less formal 'pappa/mamma'. Maybe that would be a solution to your problem?


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## Vikingo

Welcome to the forums, Eleanor!!

If I may butt in... Eleanor, in many cultures there are different "politeness/formalness" levels of address, and I know that this is particularly true in Asia. What you need to do, however, is provide enough context so that the Swedes can give you an opinion as to how to say the same thing naturally expressed in Swedish. I guess that for you the difference may be obvious, but for Scandinavians it's not.

Take care


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## Eleanor Shin

Thank you for speedy and full answers, and I also learned that I have to think differently in this kind of situation.  

Thank you so much!


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## dinji

Plopp said:


> So, to conclude, I'm sorry, but your task is impossible. You can't have a son or daughter call their father 'Sir' in Swedish! I just recall that in some parts of Sweden, there are people who adress their parents by using the words 'Far' and 'Mor' instead of the more frequent and less formal 'pappa/mamma'. Maybe that would be a solution to your problem?


My father called his parents 'Pappa (or Far)' and 'Mamma (or Mor)' together with the third person of the verbs. It was really the third person of the verb that marked the respect (in a really archaic way) not the choice of the subject word at all. The respect did not annull the familiarity in my view, a really strange way it was to me, still alive in the 1970'ies, hardly today though.


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## magnus

dinji said:


> My father called his parents 'Pappa (or Far)' and 'Mamma (or Mor)' together with the third person of the verbs. It was really the third person of the verb that marked the respect (in a really archaic way) not the choice of the subject word at all. The respect did not annull the familiarity in my view, a really strange way it was to me, still alive in the 1970'ies, hardly today though.



How would that sound? Do you have any examples? Now I am curious.


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## Plopp

It was quite common a hundred years or so ago. The formal 'ni' was used to show distance or even dedaign, not respect... 'han,hon' was used in a respectful way. When I was a young girl (ages ago  ) I knew a very old woman who wanted to be adressed as 'hon'. So, I could say to her 'Elin, vill *hon* ha en kopp kaffe?' (Elin, would *she* like a cup of coffee?). I couldn't call her 'ni' that was cold and impolite, she thought, and 'du' was far too informal, since she was very, very much older than I and we weren't related.
Perhaps this is why we had the so called 'du-reform' in the 60's, the informal reform where it became more and more frequent not to say 'ni' but 'du' even to people we didn't know. Before this reform there was an expression, which obviously became obsolete..., 'att bli du och bror med någon' ( to become 'du' and brother with someone) which meant that you treated someone infomally, as an equal. This was accompanied with a ritual where the older or more important of the parties suggested  to 'bli du och bror', then they drank a glass of wine, beer, strong liquor, looked one another in the eyes and nodded. After that, they were equals...


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## dinji

magnus said:


> How would that sound? Do you have any examples? Now I am curious.


"Kan pappa komma hit å leka med mej?"
"Mamma! Vill mamma hjälpa mej på med kläderna"
osv.
Som plopp skriver hade det varit helt otänkbart att nia inom familjen (det skulle ha markerat distans och kanske till och med lite avståndstagande) - och i det här sammanhanget var duandet också uteslutet (det hade markerat brist på respekt): bruket av tredje person var ingrott sedan barnsben.

Nota bene att tredje person var också det vanliga tilltalet av en socialt högre stående främling:
"Kan magistern vara så snäll och hjälpa mej på med kappan?"
"Kan fröken hjälpa mej med hemläxan?"
osv.

Niande var reserverat för bruk "uppifrån ner" - magistern till betjänten osv.

I now realise this thread was in English... Anyway 3rd person singular was always used for discourse "from below": student to teacher, child to parent etc. Second person plural "Ni" was reserved for use "from above to below" when a certained distance was desired: from an academic to a servant etc.

The social complexity of this system was probably the reason why it had to be scrapped when society developed towards egalitarian. The French or the Spanish system are not so socially multidimensional, their polite forms merely mark unfamiliarity and politeness without taking a stance on social status.


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## jonquiliser

I don't have much to add to Dinji's excellent description.

Eleanor, the Mor/Far option could be fine to use, but will definitely convey an idea of a more distant time (nobody under a certain age address their parents in this way) - perhaps pre-fifties or something like that.

If you rather want to express the dryness of the relation, you would need to do that in other ways than by use of titles. If you have a specific phrase in mind, just post it and someone can perhaps help you.


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## andreasol

I don't know how it is in Sweden, but in Norway som teenagers call thier parents by thier first name to mark some kind of distance...


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## Plopp

That exists in Sweden too, but it's not very frequent. I have five kids. Three of them call me by my first name while the other two, the youngest and the eldest, say 'mamma'. I can't explain the difference. They just decided that for themselves when they were very small, like 4-5 years old. On the other hand I have a friend where all four of her children call her by her first name. But otherwise, everyone else I know call their parents 'mamma' or 'pappa'.


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## Wilma_Sweden

I can imagine teenagers or young adults switching from mum/dad to first name when addressing their parents but, as previously mentioned, the majority of Swedes probably use mamma/pappa. I don't know about the Swedish Royal family except that Victoria uses pappa when talking _about_ her father, the King.

/Wilma


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## jonquiliser

First name versus mamma/pappa varies with family. I know some people who always called their parents by name (in some cases because of practical matters, such as their parents being teachers in their children's school), whereas others use mamma/pappa (which may at some point turn into morsan/farsan).


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