# Serbian (BCS): WTF - JBT



## pallina89

Hi!
I have a curiosity about the translation of the word used so much by americans 'WTF=what the f***k'' and I was guessing If it is used an expression similar to this. 
Especially in dialect or teenager slangs.
It is useful to know it.
For example my friend usually writes JBT = Jebo te, but I think it is in funny meaning and not litterally.
Thanks.


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## slavic_one

I won't say "WTF" and "jbt" are the same, because "jbt" is just "jeb*te" witout vowels, which is commonly way of writing in English also (even more).


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## Duya

When used as exclamation, "[u,] jebo te!" usually expresses a neutral or positive surprise, akin to "jeez!".

To express discontent and shock, you can also use "koji kurac!" but it's more vulgar. It can also get rather offending, as in "koji ti je kurac?!"="WTF is wrong with you?!"


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## doorman

Duya said:


> It can also get rather offending, as in "koji ti je kurac?!"="WTF is wrong with you?!"



Interesting enough, I use that one when the subject of the conversation doesn't concern me personally (e.g. a friend telling me a thing he did to somebody else). However, if the subject concerns me (that is, a friend upsets me with something), I'd use "koja ti je pićka materina". The translation would not change, but is somewhat more offensive


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## pallina89

Thanks for information Doorman!!
I accept every info.


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## doorman

If you want to widen your swear vocabulary, you might want to take a look at this page.

P.S. The link is about Croatian swear words because the page concerning Serbian ones has a lot of spelling errors


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## slavic_one

doorman said:


> Interesting enough, I use that one when the subject of the conversation doesn't concern me personally (e.g. a friend telling me a thing he did to somebody else). However, if the subject concerns me (that is, a friend upsets me with something), I'd use "koja ti je pička materina". The translation would not change, but is somewhat more offensive



Am not sure I get it 100% 

BTW (cro. UBD ), if you don't want to swear, you can just say/write: Molim??!!


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## doorman

slavic_one said:


> Am not sure I get it 100%


This is the first time I used _ć_ instead of _č_. And on such a common and well known word! I didn't think it'd ever happen 
Well, to me, "pička materina" is much more offensive then "kurac" (maybe because I'm a dude?).



slavic_one said:


> BTW (cro. UBD )


Hmmm, not sure I get this one...
BTW = By The Way
UBD = UBuDuće ?


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## Majalj

UBD = uzgred budi Dečeno? 

If WTF merely an expression of surprise, the closest to it would be JBT. 
But it is impossible to translate swear words literally.


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## slavic_one

Ispričavam se, UBR (ne D)! Usput Budi Rečeno


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## pallina89

doorman said:


> If you want to widen your swear vocabulary, you might want to take a look at this page.
> 
> P.S. The link is about Croatian swear words because the page concerning Serbian ones has a lot of spelling errors




Interesting link!
Thanks.

I have a question about this:
Boli me pička= I really don't care about it
It is not so swear word isn't?


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## pallina89

slavic_one said:


> Ispričavam se, UBR (ne D)! Usput Budi Rečeno



Is it used more in Croatia?


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## slavic_one

pallina89 said:


> Interesting link!
> Thanks.
> 
> I have a question about this:
> Boli me pička= I really don't care about it
> It is not so swear word isn't?



I never heard that expression, and I find it pretty vulgar (and maybe even a bit funny).



pallina89 said:


> Is it used more in Croatia?



Actually I never saw "UBR", I just made it here myself


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## doorman

pallina89 said:


> I have a question about this:
> Boli me pička= I really don't care about it
> It is not so swear word isn't?



Well... pička = cunt, so judge it yourself 
I've never heard somebody say that... We usually say _Boli me kurac_. Both versions could be translated as _I don't give a f***k about it_. I think the translator wanted to be as polite as possible 



pallina89 said:


> Is it used more in Croatia?


I think slavic_one was just joking. Nor have I ever written or seen it.


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## pallina89

Ahh! Okie. I understand now.
Well, on the link you gave me, there are few (vulgar) expressions xD
Really funny, but I hope they are not written with google translate.


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## Bojan

"Boli me pička" is actually used in Serbia. It's vulgar way to say "I don't care", just like "boli me kurac" and "boli me dupe".


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## pallina89

I think that you gave me a lot of idiomatic sentences 
Hvala mnogo


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## Duya

Well, not all BCS obscenities are universal, and some have local color. For example, I would understand doorman's "koja ti je p. m.?", but I seldom heard it used in Bosnia or Serbia. Or, I think that "boli me p*a" is fairly Belgradian expression.


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## pallina89

So, If i ask to someone who lives in another city, for exaple Zrenjanin, they will tell me another local expression right?


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## doorman

pallina89 said:


> So, If i ask to someone who lives in another city, for exaple Zrenjanin, they will tell me another local expression right?



Yes, that is very likely. BCS is known for its vast swear vocabulary and every region has its own swear expressions  The only way to find them out is to ask locals.
Nevertheless, there are many "universal expressions" understood (and correctly interpreted) by every BCS native.


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## sokol

pallina89 said:


> So, If i ask to someone who lives in another city, for exaple Zrenjanin, they will tell me another local expression right?


Possibly, but I fear you are missing the point here  (native speakers have concentrated on details rather than the broader picture which is not so clear to learners of the language) - the important thing is that such expressions (which sound extremely offensive and vulgar if translated to English or Italian or German or whatever: terms for sexual organs or sexual intercourse: pička, kurac, jebati (se), etc.) are widely used by Serbs, Croats and Bosnians, they're part of everyday life.

What obviously differs (as this discussion shows) is _*which*_ words are used and preferred in_* which regions*_, and also the degree of offensiveness seems to vary considerably.

Thus, Pallina, you need to be very careful about what foreros wrote here: first and foremost you'd be good advised _*never*_ to use those terms yourself except if you're absolutely sure that it won't cause offence; and then you also need to take into account that what may be considered rather mild or even jokingly-friendly in Belgrade might be considered rather offensive in Zrenjanin, so they surely will know the expression but probably consider it more (or also, alternatively, less) offensive.


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## doorman

sokol said:


> Thus, Pallina, you need to be very careful about what foreros wrote here: first and foremost you'd be good advised _*never*_ to use those terms yourself except if you're absolutely sure that it won't cause offence; and then you also need to take into account that what may be considered rather mild or even jokingly-friendly in Belgrade might be considered rather offensive in Zrenjanin, so they surely will know the expression but probably consider it more (or also, alternatively, less) offensive.



Quoted for truth 

Also, when using such expressions, the intonation with which they're being said plays a crucial role. Many of the expressions have double meanings and the interpretation relies solely on the intonation.
E.g. _Boli me kurac_ said calmly means _I don't care about it_, while the same phrase said with a bit of anger means _I don't give a f***k about it_.
Of course, needless to say, that does not give you the right to use such expressions in formal situations 

So, unless you're using such expressions face to face with a friend (to whom you may explain your intention if misinterpreted), it would be better to concentrate on other language aspects (for now)


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## Duya

...but I don't think that level of ofensiveness significantly varies among regions. For example, "jebote" is universally non-offensive, while "j**m ti mater" is a grave insult everywhere. What matters more is context and level of intimacy between speakers. Still, Sokol's point stands-- this is a delicate and slippery area which is best left alone by beginner learners.


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## pallina89

I read all your messages.
Well, it is true about 'intonations' and so then. 
I just want to know more and more about slangs and idiomatic expressions, that is why I am looking for new friends from every city of Srbija.
For example 'jebote' it is not so much offensive in Belgrade, but when I talked with one of Zrenjanin, this friend told me it was very offensive.
I must, at moment, concentrate about use of language + grammar as you suggested me.
Thanks


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## SweetCherry

And I thought I can swear...


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## phosphore

sokol said:


> the important thing is that such expressions (which sound extremely offensive and vulgar if translated to English or Italian or German or whatever: terms for sexual organs or sexual intercourse: pička, kurac, jebati (se), etc.) are widely used by Serbs, Croats and Bosnians, they're part of everyday life.


 
I am not sure what you mean here. An American pop star is much more likely to swear in public than a public figure in Serbia and I can't think of any Serbian pop song (except for Jelena Karleusa's "Testament") with lyrics as vulgar as those of mainstream American or British artists.

Anyway, there is certainly no difference between Belgrade and Zrenjanin in use of vulgar language. There might be, on the other hand, some difference between Belgrade and Zagreb concerning the preference towards one or the other expression, but the differences are actualy more individual than regional. I, for instance, don't use that language register, my friends neither, and if you asked me I would say that in Belgrade all the expressions mentioned here are very vulgar and insulting (even though I wouldn't be _really_ insulted by any of them). Additionally, I don't think you would impress anyone by mastering the use of vulgar language, so you better concentrate on other language aspects.


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## sokol

phosphore said:


> I am not sure what you mean here. An American pop star is much more likely to swear in public than a public figure in Serbia and I can't think of any Serbian pop song (except for Jelena Karleusa's "Testament") with lyrics as vulgar as those of mainstream American or British artists.


Oh yes, of course "what the fuck" is similarly frequent in English, especially in certain music styles.

I compared that with use of swearwords in German (I'm not so sure about Italian - as the thread starter's native language is Italian - but I think Italian is more like German in this respect).

I can assure you that it took some time getting used to those swearwords, our swearwords are significantly milder - or more precisely, swearwords in German which have about the same meaning as those used frequently in BCS are much more offensive (and it would be considered scandalous if they were mentioned in pop songs - except for "ficken" which, due to English influence I guess, has become quite common and isn't anymore as offensive as it once was, it's probably already comparable to "jebote").
(Well, my first Slavic language was Slovene but they use similar swearwords; also I learned quite some offensive BCS swearwords when I was in Ljubljana - of a kind I'd rather not mention here. )


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## phosphore

I don't know, it is true that swearing is widely spread in Serbia (and probably in the same extent in Croatia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, etc.), but that's just statistics, that doesn't mean that everyone swears or that everyone's alright with swearing, and that kind of language is exclusively restricted to the most informal situations. Even in metalinguistic context such words and expressions are unacceptable, as they are always considered to be extremely rude and vulgar, while in France or America that language register is very much present in pop culture. I wouldn't be surprised if Germany and Austria were different in this respect, but Italy? I don't think so.


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## sokol

phosphore said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if Germany and Austria were different in this respect, but Italy? I don't think so.


Well, the difference in Austria at least is that both swearwords and "rough" jokes aren't as explicit as in the "Ex-YU" nations; this also was very obvious when reading newspapers: very rough and crude jokes appeared especially in Croatian and Serbian newspapers (Slovene ones were a bit "more shy"), often there was a sexual reference.

Our teachers warned us about this cultural difference already in the courses I took in Graz, Austria - I'm not at all oversensitive but it took a bit getting used to this.  


Might be that Italy is more like Serbia and Croatia in this respect, I wouldn't know.


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## phosphore

I see now what you're saying and you're right. The problem is that I try not to see that kind of "culture" associated with _Kurir_, _Press_, _Blic_, _Pink_ and similar media, where obscene alusions and very vulgar jokes are widely present, where what really was and should be restricted to the most informal situations has become publicly acceptable. But I still think that Italy is not much different from us in this respect, while I couldn't imagine Austria on the same side.


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## doorman

I think you guys, phoshore and sokol, are talking about the same thing from a different point of view 

Vulgar language and vulgar expressions are not publicly accepted anywhere - that's not what this is about.

When it comes to swear words, there is a big difference between BCS and, for example, Italian (and/or French for that matter). Italians take a common, normal word and they alter its meaning in order to express themselves more freely {in a vulgar way} but still not use swear words (i.e. the word's real meaning depends on the context). That way they can swear, although they're not actually swearing.

On the other hand, BCS people take an actual swear word and make it sound less offensive. Thus, we swear even when we're not actually swearing 

Don't be fooled, that does not mean that Italians don't have swear words


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## Duya

I agree with doorman 100%--usage in media is hardly a measure of vulgar words among people. As phosphore says, the f-word is more acceptable in anglophone media than the j-word in BCS ones. Still, I think that we're hard to beat in terms of variety and frequency of use of vulgar language in everyday use, although lots of it isn't really meant as insulting. It is just a generalization, of course--it is not part of everyone's regular vocabulary.


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## doorman

Duya said:


> Still, I think that we're hard to beat in terms of variety and frequency of use of vulgar language in everyday use


That reminds me: I read once an article (I tried to find it on the net, but no luck) that listed "the most vulgar languages", i.e. the languages in which swear words were used with most frequency. Guess which were the top two? Surprise, surprise  The "winner" was Serbian, followed by Croatian. However, since I can't find again the article, and can't remember exactly which method was used to "measure" it, it might not be a reliable information. Nevertheless, it certainly is (at least) a curiosity


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## phosphore

I am sorry but I don't find that funny at all. That wouldn't be something one should be proud of but luckily for us that's not true either. Like many other language aspects, this one can't be measured either, but if you insist on comparing, I don't find Spanish swear words to be any less vulgar than the Serbian ones.


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## sokol

Yes indeed, Spanish also has some pretty vulgar terms - but anyway this is not a "contest". 
The important thing is that learners of a language learn to understand how and why, and with which intended meanings, vulgar words are used.

Learners of all languages generally should be very careful indeed about using them, especially when they're not yet proficient in this language - but they need to understand them pretty soon to avoid misunderstandings: that, as far as I am concerned, is the purpose of this thread, and similar threads like this one, no?


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