# Origin of French 'merci'



## macta123

MODERATOR NOTE: Questions on the etymology of words (rather than their meaning or translation into another modern language) are discussed in our Etymology and History of Languages Forum, to which this thread has been moved.
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Hello,

I wanted to know the orgin of ' Merci ' (Thank you). Does this come from Latin or Frank?


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## Gentiléen

No Latin etymology as far as I know.
In the Middle Age, it had the same meaning as its English homophone "mercy"


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## 1mark1

macta123 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I wanted to know the orgin of ' Merci ' (Thank you). Does this come from Latin or Frank?



You may find your answer in the forgotten language of Aramaic or neo Aramaic (the language spoken by Jesus) also called Assyrian where 'merci' just means 'thank you'


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## tFighterPilot

1mark1 said:


> You may find your answer in the forgotten language of Aramaic or neo Aramaic (the language spoken by Jesus) also called Assyrian where 'merci' just means 'thank you'


In Aramaic the word for "thank you" is "tawdi"


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## Hulalessar

The French Academy's Dictionary says it is from Latin _mercedem_, accusative of _merces_, meaning salary or reward and, later, price, favour or mercy given to someone when sparing them.


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## merquiades

Hulalessar said:


> The French Academy's Dictionary says it is from Latin _mercedem_, accusative of _merces_, meaning salary or reward and, later, price, favour or mercy given to someone when sparing them.



It's a slow evolution in meaning over a long period of time.  I would just add that the current meaning of thanks probably comes from the "favour" you mention.  "Dieu merci" the grace of God, God willing, favour or want of God


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## 1mark1

In Modern Assyrian or Neo Aramaic if I say "How are you" = Dakhee vit" when speaking to a male.  The response might be: "I'm good thank you = Spaay vin merci"
Ref:  Studies in Neo Aramaic, Professor Wolfhart Heinrichs, Department of Eastern languages at Harvard Universities.
It should be noted however that there are many dialects.  This is only one of those.


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## fdb

"Merci" is from Latin _merces_, asHulalessar has explained. The French word has been borrowed into Arabic (and many other languages), and from Arabic into the Neo-Aramaic of Maalula (one of several surviving Neo-Aramaic languages).


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## 1mark1

fdb, thank you for clearing that up.  I was simply trying to establish what I thought the Linquistic form (as a word) is shown by tracing its development since its earliest recorded occurance........in this case _perhaps_ it could be traced back to Biblical usage in one society.
fyi - I am an Engineer and operate a steel business but early on I really wanted to major in modern European Languages.  Oh well - haha  This has been fun and the guys have not beat up on me too much


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## 1mark1

Ouch!  My company on works on heavy industrial things such as power plants.  Never bridges!  Thanks fdb


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## killerbee256

What about “merci” in pt. _você_ (_vossa mercee_) and sp. _usted_ (_vuestra merced_)? Is this related to French usage in someway?


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## Hulalessar

killerbee256 said:


> What about “merci” in pt. _você_ (_vossa mercee_) and sp. _usted_ (_vuestra merced_)? Is this related to French usage in someway?



They both derive form the same Latin word _mercedem_. I do not know about Portuguese, but the Spanish word _merced_ has the same range of meaning as the Latin as mentioned above. See here: http://lema.rae.es/drae/?val=merced


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## Ben Jamin

1mark1 said:


> In Modern Assyrian or Neo Aramaic if I say "How are you" = Dakhee vit" when speaking to a male.  The response might be: "I'm good thank you = Spaay vin merci"
> Ref:  Studies in Neo Aramaic, Professor Wolfhart Heinrichs, Department of Eastern languages at Harvard Universities.
> It should be noted however that there are many dialects.  This is only one of those.


But have you any proof that it comes from Old Aramaic? It is very probable that it comes from French via Turkish.


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## fdb

Ben Jamin said:


> But have you any proof that it comes from Old Aramaic? It is very probable that it comes from French.



As stated already in no. 9.


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## francisgranada

For curiosity, also the Spanish personal name _Mercedes _is related to the word we are discussing now. It comes from a former _María de las Mercedes_, meaning "Mary of Mercies".


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## fdb

....and was borne notably by *Mercédès Adrienne Manuela Ramona Jellinek*, the eponym of the motor car.


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## Ben Jamin

fdb said:


> As stated already in no. 9.



Thanks, I didn't notice that post. By the way, it must then be Turkish that borrowed the word from Arabic.


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## CapnPrep

Ben Jamin said:


> By the way, it must then be Turkish that borrowed the word from Arabic.


 Why must this be?


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## fdb

I do not think that Turkish uses “merci”. I do not know which of the Neo-Aramaic languages are supposed to use it. The inhabitants of three Aramaic-speaking villages in Syria are bilingual in Levantine Arabic, and have borrowed heavily from French, either directly or via Arabic. Those in Tur Abdin are bilingual in Turkish, those in Northern Iraq in Iraqi Arabic and/or Kurdish.


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## Ben Jamin

fdb said:


> I do not think that Turkish uses “merci”.


Do you speak Turkish?
According to dozens of "useful phrases" both on line and printed on paper they use "mersi", (not "merci"). Are they wrong according to you?


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## CapnPrep

fdb said:


> I do not think that Turkish uses “merci”.


It is not the only or the most common/neutral way of saying "thank you", but it is used. Nişanyan gives an earliest attestation of 1869 and mentions no Arabic intermediary.


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## fdb

Fine, but how is this relevant for Aramaic? As I said, the only Aramaic/Turkish bilingual area is Tur Abdin.


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## CapnPrep

fdb said:


> Fine, but how is this relevant for Aramaic?


Nothing, why? Is this thread exclusively about Aramaic?


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## fdb

I was responding to this:



Ben Jamin said:


> But have you any proof that it comes from Old Aramaic? It is very probable that it comes from French via Turkish.


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## fdb

I think we have got stuck in the sand. Maybe we all agree on this:

-merci is from Latin, not from Aramaic

-the French word was borrowed into Arabic dialects, Turkish, Neo-Aramaic, Persian etc. etc.


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