# から　だから



## YangMuye

こんにちは
I have noticed から and だから are often used as modal particles. I didn't find much information in dictionaries. Would anyone elaborate a little more on this use?
よろしくお願いします。

Examples:


> いいから、いいから。





> (If I remember correctly)
> ―でも…
> ―私が言ったから





> (http://ayacnews2nd.com/archives/51618307.html)
> 男「あ、見えた」
> 女「・・・彼女連れでそういうこと言うかなぁ」
> 男「何が？」
> 女「だからぁ」


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## Uttanasana

I don't think the term "modal particle" is used but the explanations are still in the dictionary; at least in mine.  I think the following explanations are the ones that you are looking for:

For から, 大辞泉says:
(終助詞的に用いて）強い主張、決意を表す。「ぞ」。
(By using as a postpositional particle denoting emotion,) it is to express strong opinions or determination.
e.g.｢思い知らせてやるから」

For だから、again 大辞泉says:
相手の発言に対して反抗的な気持ちを示す語。
It is a word that expresses defiant feeling against the opponent/the other speaker. 
「はやくしなさい」「だからやりたくないんだってば」

HTH.


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## YangMuye

Uttanasana-san, Thank your very much.
どうも有難う御座いました



> I don't think the term "modal particle" is used


Yes, I means 終助詞.


> but the explanations are still in the dictionary; at least in mine.



I have double checked 広辞苑 大辞林 and 大辞泉 in my e-dictionary, yahoo辞書, excited辞書, goo辞書, only to find "_(終助詞的に用いて)強い主張､決意を表す｡ぞ｡｢思い知らせてやる―｣_", which I already know. 



> For だから、again 大辞泉says:
> 相手の発言に対して反抗的な気持ちを示す語。
> It is a word that expresses defiant feeling against the opponent/the other speaker.
> 「はやくしなさい」「だからやりたくないんだってば」


大変参考になりました！どうもありがとう。


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## John_Doe

A girls explains to her newly moved neighbour where a dump is. She concludes the explanation with ちなみに燃えるゴミは月木燃えないゴミは土曜日*ですから*.他にも何かわからない事等ありましたら遠慮なくおっしゃって下さい.

It's unlikely that she's being defiant or expressing a strong opinion. Any ideas?


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## Uttanasana

This から is to show the reason.  After 「燃えないゴミは土曜日ですから」、I'd say 守ってくださいね、or よろしくお願いします is ommitted.  ("non-combustibles are on Saturdays (so please make sure)".)[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]BTW, it's not 円量なくおっしゃって下さい; it should be 「遠慮（えんりょ）」なくおっしゃってください。[/FONT]


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## John_Doe

> 、I'd say 守ってくださいね、or よろしくお願いします is ommitted.



Thank you for your useful input. I never thought that something may be omitted. Anyway, the reason for what? I never get it, honestly. As for "守ってくださいね", you reminded me of a pattern I had noticed quite a while ago: <request> + <some additional stuff + kara> (and vice versa).

A few examples:


> 明日学校に来て。待っているから。
> (to a guy with a broken leg) 無理をしないでください。 助けを呼びますから
> お願いだから。落ち着け 由乃
> この箱はこ、捨すてないでね。後あとで使つかうから。



Doesn't the sentence follow this pattern?



> BTW, it's not 円量なくおっしゃって下さい; it should be 「遠慮（えんりょ）」なくおっしゃってください。


Oh.


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## Uttanasana

John_Doe said:


> the reason for what? I never get it, honestly.


The reason why you need to obey the rules （決まりを守る）is because there are rules (i.e. 燃えるゴミは月木、燃えないゴミは土曜日).

We often omit something obvious from the context. When you are told that there are rules, it's obvious that the speaker is telling (or at least expecting) you to obey them.


> As for "守ってくださいね", you reminded me of a pattern I had noticed quite a while ago: <request> + <some additional stuff + kara> (and vice versa).
> Doesn't the sentence follow this pattern?


Yes and notice the part that you said “some additional stuff” is the reason.  

明日学校に来て。待っているから。=> Come to school tomorrow, because I’ll be waiting for you.
無理をしないでください。 助けを呼びますから => Don’t push yourself, as I’m getting some help here.
etc.


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## John_Doe

> Yes and notice the part that you said “some additional stuff” is the reason.


I put it like that because I don't perceive that "stuff" as the actual reason. Apparently we understand what a reason is differently.

You should go to school because you are supposed to do so (at lest, to get educated). It doesn't matter whether someone would be waiting you or not. 
You shouldn't make sudden movements because your leg fracture is fractured. That's the reason.



> The reason why you need to obey the rules （決まりを守る）is because there are rules (i.e. 燃えるゴミは月木、燃えないゴミは土曜日).


I'd say you have to obey the rules because otherwise you would face the consequences. In other words, cause -> effect. But the problem is 守ってくださいね isn't a effect, it's a request as such.

The Japanese tend to emphasize "reasons" much more frequently than I'm used to hear from Russians or native English speakers. So there must be other reason to use "kara" other than pointing out a reason.

I'm not completely sure but it seems that 待っているから and the other examples are meant to persuade someone to do something or change his attitude / thought process (心配しなくていいから).


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## Uttanasana

This is not about should or shouldn't.
I want you to come to school because I want you to (even if tomorrow is Sunday for example).
As for the 無理をしないでください、助けを呼びますから, it's more like: I want you to know that the help is coming, SO please stay calm.

Yes they are requests and not cause-effect. 
But don't you agree that there's always a reason when you ask anyone anything?

All requests have reasons behind it, I'd say.


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## John_Doe

> All requests have reasons behind it, I'd say.





> But don't you agree that there's always a reason why you are asking anyone anything?



If it's about the reason behind a request, then it's much more understandable. Now I feel myself relieved ) Than you again for the clarification.


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## John_Doe

> (mother) 部屋まだ片付けないの
> (son) 分かった 分かったから (1). ちょっとしばらく一人にして
> (mother) まあ お父さんと一緒で本だらけなんだから (2)





> (mother) 全くあんたは。 毎日どこはし歩いてんの。
> (son) ごめん。 ちょっと山田と遊んでだから。
> (mother) なによそんなに遊び必要があるの。 こっちはお父さんもご飯食べずに待ってるんだからね (3)



(1) is clearly connected to what we were discussing yesterday. What about (2) and (3)?


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## tos1

> What about (2) and (3)?


These だから also show reasons, but the requesting or resulting clause has been omitted in order to avoid saying too much.

Complaining/dissatisfied
- 部屋が本だらけなんだから! (早く片付けなさい!)
- あなたって本当に鈍感なんだから! (困るわ! もっと早く気づいてほしいのに!)

Bit annoyed
- 甘えんぼうなんだから! (手間がかかるわ。でも赤ちゃんだから仕方ないわね)

Relieving
- おまえは いくつになっても 私の娘なんだから (見放したりしないよ)

Confident/boasting
- 私のほうが速いんだから! (あなたには負けないわよ!)

Determination/making up one's mind
- 大きくなったら花屋さんになるんだから! (見ていてね)


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## John_Doe

Thank you.



> 【山田】あんな女とは絶対付き合いたくねぇなー
> 【春日】え？何言ってんの　山田？何で上から目線なんで。お前と何か誰も付き合ってくれねぇよ
> 【山田】はぁ？春日　お前なぁ！人のこと言えんのかよ？お前、俺と同じようだもんだからなぁ *(4)*
> 【春日】違うね


(4) "We are in the same boat, so you cannot judge me", right?  



> 【春日】小島め、佐伯さん侮辱しやがって。 あんなヤツに佐伯さんの良さがわかってたまるか。俺はもう１年もずっと佐伯さんのことを好きなんだからな*(5)*。俺のミューズ。俺のファムファタールなんだからな*(6)*


(5) "I've been in love with her for a year, so I know her better than you"? (6) seems to show the same reasoning.



> お兄ちゃんのことなんかぜんぜん好きじゃないんだからねっ!! *(7)*


It's an anime title. I don't like/love my brother, so... what? Get off my case?


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## tos1

> (4) "We are in the same boat, so you cannot judge me", right?


I'm not sure if I understand the expression "We are in the same boat" correctly, but I get the impression that the speaker would be feeling pity on somebody. I think this "言えんのかよ?俺と同じようなもんだからなぁ" should rather be translated more literally as;
- As you have similar personalities as me, you should not speak badly of me.
Or
- You have a bad character as same as I do, so ...


> (5) "I've been in love with her for a year, so I know her better than you"?


I think so.


> (6) seems to show the same reasoning.


Yes.
"I've been in ...  She is my Muse, a femme fatale. So I know ..."


> お兄ちゃんのことなんかぜんぜん好きじゃないんだからねっ!! (7)
> It's an anime title. I don't like/love my brother, so... what? Get off my case?


Yes. Or;
- Don't make any mistake about me. (勘違いしないでよね)
- Don't think i like/love him. (好いているなんて思わないでね)

Of course, this title (sentence) expresses that totally she likes/loves him and is lying to hide her feelings.


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## YangMuye

4 years since this thread started! 

I would say から is often nothing but a model particle/sentence-final particle(終助詞), like よ, ぞ, な, etc.
It is not that something after it is omitted, but this is just the way it is used.
It is more about the *purpose* of utterance, rather than the content.

You use から when you give reasons or explanations and _require the listener to follow_ you.
In another word, it indicates you are speaking in a *persuasive or compelling* way, and *settling* something.
That is why から can be used together with のだ, ものだ, ためだ, etc, which are already used to introduce reasons.
This is not just redundant. What comes after から are almost always the final conclusion, the request or the decision of the *speaker*.
The function of から has a strongly related to the speaker's attitude, rather than the matter discussed.
If you are trying find out the meaning of から or what is omitted, you are probably doing the wrong way.

Generally speaking, you use add から when you 
1. expect the listener to accept your reason and do something you want;
2. expect the listener to accept and be satisfied with your explanation;
3. are a little annoyed because the listener does not act as you want.



> お兄ちゃんのこと my brother
> なんか (underplay the importance)
> ぜんぜん好きじゃない do not like at all
> んだ (pay attention to this)
> から (don't get me wrong)
> ねっ! (you agree / you know the consequence)


As you can see なんか/んだ (to minimize/maximize the importance) and から/ね (explicit request/implicit admonishment) have completely opposite functions, which indicate the speaker's ambivalence.
This is the very example of ツンデレ. Since から means 勘違いしないで, and because she is ツンデレ, what she really wants to say is actually “お兄ちゃんが大好きだよ”.


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## thetazuo

亜衣麻衣美衣が壁を作るようにして、士道の進路を阻んでくる。
「ちょっと待てゴルァァァァァ！」
「乙女を辱めておいてどこに行こうってのよ！」
「現行犯よ！逃がさない*んだから*！」

Hi. I know んだから can mean “because”. But in this sentence, what does the んだから mean? (Or what is its function?)

Thank you.


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## Flaminius

You are looking at the use of _kara_ as a modality particle.  This belongs to the colloquial usage, and you don't see it as an independent entry in authoritative dictionaries.  Still, you will find explanations if you delve far and deep enough.  The second edition of 明鏡国語辞典 has two major divisions (q.v.).  The first division explains から as 格助詞, and the second as 接続助詞.  What pertains to your question is the second division.  It is only at the sixth subdivision out of seven that you see what you need:


> 6. 《文末に用いて》注意・警告・慰めなどの気持ちを表す。「先生に言いつけてやる*から*」「私もう帰る*から*」「心配しなくていい*から*」


The _kara_ in your text is most closely related to warning.

This leaves us with 逃がさないんだ to be explained.  Ending a sentence about one's action with んだ is a childish-to-girlish way of expressing determination.


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## thetazuo

Thank you very much.


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