# average person



## yuechu

大家好！

I'm interested in Hanja and I was wondering how to ask "Could the average person in South Korea recognize basic Hanja (漢字）nowadays?" in Chinese. I looked up "average" but wasn't sure which translation to choose...
Thanks!


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## retrogradedwithwind

一般人。

“平均人”肯定不对。


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## yuechu

Thanks, Retrogradedwithwind!
Would you say: 在韩国，一般人能认简单的汉字吗，现今？


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## twenty6

That would be understandable, but I don't think you should use "现今”, rather just "在韩国，一般人能认[识]简单的汉字吗？“, since it is implied that you are talking about present-day South Korea.


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## yuechu

OK! Thanks, Twenty6!


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## ovaltine888

yuechu said:


> Thanks, Retrogradedwithwind!
> Would you say: 在韩国，一般人能认简单的汉字吗，现今？


一般人 sounds a little off to me. Actually, I don't hear much "一般人" for "average person" in Chinese except for “他不是一般人” (He is extraordinary.) and 一般人不会这么做 (Normal people would not do it)

Usually we use "普通人" instead.
如今在韩国，普通人能看懂简单的汉字吗？

Or we use 韩国人 as a general group of people and add an adverb such as 一般（generally）or 通常 (usually)
现在的韩国人一般/通常能看懂简单汉字吗？

Or we can use 路人 (pedestrian) to refer to ordinary people.
在韩国街头，如果随便找个路人，他能看懂简单汉字吗？
If you ask a random pedestrian in the street in Korea, can he or she understand basic Hanja?


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## yuechu

Oh, those are great. Thanks so much for your suggestions, Ovaltine888!


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## Skatinginbc

ovaltine888 said:


> Usually we use "普通人" instead.


在大陸，普通人能說普通話嗎?  聽起來怪怪的, 個人覺得 "一般人能說普通話嗎" 更順耳.

普通人: 與任何集團無利害關係或成員關係的人, 與特殊階級有別的社會群眾, 無特殊身分或階級的一般人。

辭官當普通人, 當了普通人, 還能看懂簡單的漢字嗎？還能說普通話嗎?  普通人能說普通話嗎? 聽起來怪怪的.


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## ovaltine888

Skatinginbc said:


> 在大陸，普通人能說普通話嗎?  聽起來怪怪的, 個人覺得 "一般人能說普通話嗎" 更順耳.
> 
> 普通人: 無特殊身分或階級的一般人。==> 似乎強調身分地位.


在大陸，普通人能說普通話嗎？It sounds weird just because you hear 普通 twice.
But it sounds fine to me if it changes to 在大陆，普通人会说英语吗？

But personally, I will tend to say
在大陆，人们通常都会说英语吗？or 大陆人一般都会说英语吗？
or 在大陆，[一般]人们会说英语吗？ (here 一般 is an adverb not an adjective)

一般人 is strange to me.


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## Skatinginbc

ovaltine888 said:


> 在大陆，普通人会说英语吗？


還是怪怪的, 像 "在大陸，正常人會說英語嗎" 一般的怪. 當然，如果問的是平民百姓會不會說英語, "普通人會說英語嗎" 就不怪了.


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## ovaltine888

Skatinginbc said:


> 還是怪怪的, 像 "在大陸，正常人會說英語嗎" 一般的怪. 當然，如果問的是平民百姓會不會說英語, "普通人會說英語嗎" 就不怪了.






"普通"在中文里表示average很常见啊。

985的学生就是students from top universities
而相对的average university students就是普通大学生咯


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## ovaltine888

Skatinginbc said:


> 還是怪怪的, 像 "在大陸，正常人會說英語嗎" 一般的怪. 當然，如果問的是平民百姓會不會說英語, "普通人會說英語嗎" 就不怪了.


在说“普通人”，你非要说“正常人”。
“普通人”的反面是“不普通的人”（可以是家境好的，受教育程度高的，也可以是家境贫寒，小学毕业...）
但是“正常人”的反面是“不正常的人”（这是骂人话吧....）

如果一定要用“正常”，其实也可以的
在大陆，会说英语是很正常的（事情）吗？


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## ovaltine888

反倒是“一般人”有着更接近“正常人”的意味。

所以我说，通常只在否定句式中听到“一般人”的用法
一般人不会晚上不睡觉。（晚上不睡觉的人不太正常...）

而且我还强烈怀疑这个"一般人"是拆开的，“一般”是个副词
[一般]人不会晚上不睡觉。


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## retrogradedwithwind

这个……我还是想说这就是“习惯”的问题。没什么对错。
习惯了“一般人”就觉得没问题，不习惯就觉得别扭。


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## SuperXW

同意oval。在大陆，"普通人"比"一般人"更常见吧。
"普通人会说英语吗？"完全不怪。
"一般人会说英语吗？"反而有歧义，可能理解成"一般|人会说英语吗？"

但是，"一般人"确实可以是一个词语，证据是：
"他可不是一般人。"


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## Messquito

From my digging on the Internet, the “average” person usually refers statistically to the “mean” or “median” of a population.
Both 一般人 and 普通人 can be refering to the “mode眾數” of the population. Of course, if a normal distribution is assumed, then the difference is most probably negligible, but it is worth noting.

Where I’m from (Taiwan) 一般人 is rarely used to refer to one specific person, whereas 普通人 can be applied to a particular person to mean they are “ordinary”.
我只想當個普通人。
我只想當個一般人。
我只想當一般人。 (If I ever hear it I’d interpret it as” I just want to be *one of *the ordinary people”.)
他*不是*一般人/普通人——他是中國最有錢的富豪。(He is not *one of* the ordinary people / He is not *a random person*.)
我只想跟一般人一樣。
我只想跟普通人一樣。

In your case, “the average person”, although singular, actually refers to a made-up person that typifies a population, so it’s not specific, hence both are acceptable, although for a Taiwanese like me, there are some subtleties:
When 一般人 is used, I would assume you are averaging the results indiscriminately over the entire population, without considering other metrics. (General v.s. Specific)
When 普通人 is used, I would assume you first single out the section of the population that are considered average or most typical of the whole (e.g. not royalty, not destitute, not having grown up in a foreign country, etc.), and then you look for the general trend in that bracket of “ordinary people”. This way, you first have to be considered 普通人 by other metrics to be in the picture. (Each specific person is examined and checked if they are 普通 before they are being considered.) (Ordinary v.s. Extraordinary)
GDP不斷提升，為什麼一般人卻感受不到？(If you pick a random person, they probably will tell you they don’t feel it. But if you, say, pick someone from the service industry, the might be more likely going to tell you they do feel it.)
GDP不斷提升，但是普通人卻感受不到。(Perhaps only people who are especially rich, or people who are especially poor can feel it.)

他不是一般人→ He is not a random person. (Because there is only “one” he in this world. → There might be nothing extroardinary about him but that fact that there is only one of him in this world makes him not 一般人)
你不是一般人，你是ＸＸＸ，你是獨一無二的，這世界上找不到第二個你。
他不是普通人→ He is not an ordinary person. (Because he has something that sets him apart from most of other people.)
你不是普通人，沒有多少人跑步可以像你一樣快吧。

In most cases, still, I’d be more inclined to say 一般人:
在這裏，有意外發生時，一般人通常都會伸出援手。
在我的國家，一般人都可以聽懂一兩句日文。
韓國一般人都愛吃泡菜。
台灣一般人的口味是重鹹的。

Especially when it comes to “average quantity”:
這個地區一般人月收入是三萬。 Feels like you are averaging over the entire population.
這個地區普通人月收入是三萬。 Feels like you‘ve ruled out the “non-ordinary” cases before making the average.
In any case, the above two sentences can be ambiguous, so to be clearer when referring to quantity, you can say:
這個地區的人平均月收入是三萬。(Changing the syntax altogether.)
Note, however, this doesn’t work with your “yes and no” question.


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## Skatinginbc

Messquito said:


> From my digging on the Internet, the “average” person usually refers statistically to the “mean” or “median” of a population.



"Could the average person in South Korea recognize basic Hanja (漢字）nowadays?" ==> The answer constitutes a yes/no scale, which is nominal. Nominal data don't have a "mean" or "median".  The notion of "mode", nevertheless, makes sense for nominal data.

An "average" is a measure of the “middle” (central value) or “typical” (majority) value of a data set.  The "average" to describe an "Average Joe" could be a mean (e.g., life expectancy 78.8 years), a median (e.g., annual income $32,000), a mode (e.g., without a college degree), or the majority (e.g., speaking English).


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## Vincent Tam

为何一个这么简单的句子，给你们解释得如此复杂。你们这样咬文嚼字，对一个初级中文学习者来说，真的有帮助吗？

Hi yuechu,
the average person in South Korea  = 普通的韩国人  

现在普通的韩国人都会一些基础的汉字吗？

or

当今的韩国人普遍都认识基础的汉字？（我认为最好）


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## yuechu

Thank you all for your help! It is very interesting!


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## SuperXW

Vincent Tam said:


> 你们这样咬文嚼字，对一个初级中文学习者来说，真的有帮助吗？


并没有。
但是可能对其它讨论者和自己有帮助。
部分人倾向于认为这是一个语言讨论论坛，而不是问答互助论坛。
说起来，What's the difference among "average people", "ordinary people" and "common people" anyway?


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## ovaltine888

SuperXW said:


> 并没有。
> 但是可能对其它讨论者和自己有帮助。
> 部分人倾向于认为这是一个语言讨论论坛，而不是问答互助论坛。
> 说起来，What's the difference among "average people", "ordinary people" and "common people" anyway?


其实我觉得大部分时候区别并不大
common people更多地是相对于noble people而言的
average和ordinary是和special相对的，average比ordinary更加specific，可以认为being average是 being ordinary的一种特质


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