# compadre/comare and comadre/comare



## jazyk

I only know Portuguese, Spanish and Catalan to have a word for a child's godfather in relation to a parent (compadre/compare) and a word for a child's godmother in relation to a parent (comadre/comare). This is how it works:

(Pt)Este é o meu compadre./(Sp)Este es mi compadre./(Ca)Aquest és el meu compare. = This is my "compadre/compare". (He baptized my child).

(Pt)Esta é a minha comadre./(Sp)Esta es mi comadre./(Ca)Aquesta és la meva comare. = This is my "comadre/comare". (She baptized my child).

Italian and French have cognate words, but they don't have the same application. Does your language have such a word?


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## OldAvatar

In Romanian, the baptized child is _fin_/_fină_.
El este finul meu.


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## modus.irrealis

Greek has κουμπάρος / κουμπάρα (kumb*a*ros / kumb*a*ra) for the persons who baptized you child. My dictionary traces them back to Italian _compare_, so maybe this word had the meaning or has it dialectally.

(Just to add, κουμπάρος is also the word used for the equivalent of the "best man" in a wedding -- if you know about Orthodox weddings, the man who crowns the groom and bride -- the κουμπάρα is his wife, and traditionally, he also baptizes your first child.)

About French, though, _compère_ and _commère_ at least did have those meanings, although perhaps they fell out of use in this meaning because the relation is not so important to French culture any more (whereas it is for many Greeks).


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## Outsider

modus.irrealis said:


> (Just to add, koumpáros is also the word used for the equivalent of the "best man" in a wedding -- if you know about Orthodox weddings, the man who crowns the groom and bride -- the koumpára is his wife, and traditionally, he also baptizes your first child.)


Ah, but be careful. Suppose I am the best man in a wedding. In Portuguese, you would say that I am the _padrinho_ (_de casamento_), not _compadre_.

Now suppose I "baptize" your child (it's actually the priest who baptizes; I wonder what's the proper term in English). Then I become the child's _padrinho_ (godfather) also, but I am your _compadre_. 

It's also worth pointing out that the etymology of this word is _co(m)_ + _pater_, "co-father".


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## modus.irrealis

Outsider said:


> Ah, but be careful. Suppose I am the best man in a wedding. In Portuguese, you would say that I am the _padrinho_ (_de casamento_), not _compadre_.


I should have been more clear -- I meant just in Greek. I though it was interesting in Greek that, although it was borrowed from Italian with the baptism-related meaning, the chief meaning of κουμπάρος is "best man" and I'm guessing that came about through the tradition of having him baptize your first child.



> Now suppose I "baptize" your child (it's actually the priest who baptizes; I wonder what's the proper term in English).


That's a good question -- I would have said "baptize" (and I notice I used it again that way above) but maybe that's a Greek influence on my English, since in Greek even the parents are said to "baptize" the child and I normally only discuss baptism in a family/church setting where the Greek use will be recognized. One dictionary online says "baptize" means "to administer baptism" and that suggests it's limited to the priest or minister or so on -- the only other word I can think of is "sponsor."



> Then I become the child's _padrinho_ (godfather) also, but I am your _compadre_.


For completeness, in Greek you'd be the νονός.


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## kiyama

In Catalan, a child's godfather is also his "padrí".
kiyama


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## Outsider

modus.irrealis said:


> That's a good question -- I would have said "baptize" (and I notice I used it again that way above) but maybe that's a Greek influence on my English, since in Greek even the parents are said to "baptize" the child and I normally only discuss baptism in a family/church setting where the Greek use will be recognized. One dictionary online says "baptize" means "to administer baptism" and that suggests it's limited to the priest or minister or so on -- the only other word I can think of is "sponsor."


Well, you can say that the parents "baptize" their child in Portuguese, too -- in the sense that they go and have it baptized. And of course the godparents participate in the baptism, so one might say that they also "baptize" the child (though this is unusual). But it's the priest who performs the rites.


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## deine

Lithuanian:

krikštatėvis/krikštamotė (compadre/comadre)


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## Nizo

My *Esperanto* dictionary gives the following definitions:

*baptopatro/baptopatrino *Tiu, kiu tenas la baptaton dum la baptado k garantias ties kristanan edukiĝon. [The one who holds the baby during the baptism and guarantees the baby’s Christian education.]

*baptano* La baptopatro rilate al la baptopatrino.
*baptanino* La baptopatrino rilate al la baptopatro.

I left the second set of definitions in Esperanto, because there is no equivalent (that I know of) for these words in English.  I could compare them to French this way:

baptopatro/baptopatrino = parrain/marraine
baptano/baptanino = compère/commère

As I understand it, _baptopatro / baptopatrino_ are the the godparents in relationship to the child (i.e. the one who is baptized).  The second set of terms, _baptano / baptanino_, refer to the relationship between the two godparents.  In other words, the fact they both serve as godparents to the same child creates a unique relationship between them.


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## kusurija

Czech:
kmotr/kmotra (compadre/comadre).


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## jazyk

[URL="http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/tlfiv5/visusel.exe?11;s=952625175;r=1;nat=;sol=0;"]This[/URL] does say that compère and comère mean the same thing as compadre and comadre, but brands that acceptation as old-fashioned. That is probably why my Robert Micro Poche doesn't have those words with that meaning. I wonder why the French stopped applying such an important meaning to the word.


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## modus.irrealis

I was doing some searches for _compère_, and I found out that English used to have such a word, and of all words, it's "gossip." According to the OED, it comes from Old English _godsibb_ (where _sibb_ means "related" and is found in _sibling_), but it seems to have been used generally of someone who's related to you through baptism, and not specifically "_n relation to the parents: (One's) child's godfather or godmother." The OED also marks this as obsolete while the meaning of "godfather/godmother" (i.e. in relation to the person being baptized) is marked as archaic and dialectal. But it's interesting that it seems to have developed along the same lines as commère, including the intermediate step of meaning "friend."_


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## Joannes

(Dutch doesn't have a word for this relationship.)


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## Stiannu

Well, the contemporary words in Italian are _padrino_ and _madrina_. 
The archaic correspondents were _compare_ and _comare_, still used in Southern Italy with the same meaning (*pay attention*: in this case - if we retain this archaic or regional use, the adult male person that assists during *my* baptism when I'm a little baby is *my* _compare_, and not my parents' _compare_, unlike the Portuguese use described by Outsider in post #4).
In standard Italian, these two words have today assumed different meanings: _compare_ is a derogatory term to indicate a peer, a friend, colleague or collaborator involved in illegal activities ("tu e i tuoi compari, state alla larga!" = "you and your [dangerous] peers, stay away from me!"). _Comare_ usually indicates a woman who spends all her time minding other people's business, chatting and gossiping (strange similarity with the etimology of the English word _gossip_!).


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## jazyk

> _Comare_ usually indicates a woman who spends all her time minding other people's business, chatting and gossiping (strange similarity with the etimology of the English word _gossip_!).


We also call them _comadres_.


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## Benvindo

jazyk said:


> We also call them _comadres_.


 

- - - -
_As Alegres Comadres de Windsor..._
BV


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## Outsider

Stiannu said:


> In standard Italian, these two words have today assumed different meanings: _compare_ is a derogatory term to indicate a peer, a friend, colleague or collaborator involved in illegal activities ("tu e i tuoi compari, state alla larga!" = "you and your [dangerous] peers, stay away from me!").


For that, we say _comparsa_ in Portuguese. Maybe the two words are related!


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## MarX

We actually have those words in Indonesian.

comare:
*Mama Srani*
or
*Ibu Srani*

compare:
*Papa Srani*
or
*Bapa Srani*

I personally only use the terms with _Mama _& _Papa_.


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## Mikey_69

In Spanish the true ways of saying

Godmother and Godfather are:

'Madrina' --and-- 'Padrino'

-------------------------------------
In Portguese they're:

Madrinha --and-- Padrinho

------------------------------------
In Italian they're:

Padrina --and-- Padrino

-----------------------------------
In French they're:

Marraine --and-- Parrain


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## Stiannu

Mikey_69 said:


> ------------------------------------
> In Italian they're:
> 
> Padrina --and-- Padrino
> 
> -----------------------------------


 
Not really. *M*adrina (see my previous post).


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## Alijsh

*Persian:* We don't have baptism but we use such terms when somebody supports us (as a father/mother do) or we support him/her (as we support our son/daughter).

godmother -> *mâdarkhânde
*godfather -> *pedarkhânde*. *khânde* is past participle of *khândan* (to call) so e.g. *mâdarkhânde* literally means mother-called. 

We have also *dokhtarkhânde* (daughter-called), *pesarkhânde* (son-called).


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## Rallino

We don't really baptize in Turkey either. We do have the terms *in Turkish *though.

godfather -> vaftiz baba--
godmother -> vaftiz ana--

You can't use them like that in nominative though, you have to add appropriate genitives.

ex: 
Vaftiz baba*m* - *My *godfather
Vaftiz ana*sı* - *His/her*  godmother

and so on.


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## Encolpius

in *Hungarian*: 

godfather - godmother = keresztapa - keresztanya

compadre - comadre (i.e. there is no English expression for that!!! why?? ):

*koma *(the male) = it is evident the origin is of Latin; it also can mean in colloquial speech, just like in Romance languages, pal, friend. 
*komaasszony or komasszony* (the female)


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## Ben Jamin

kusurija said:


> Czech:
> kmotr/kmotra (compadre/comadre).


 In Polish the same, but also kumotr i kumotra. Both come from Latin com-mater (there is no com-pater).


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## apmoy70

modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> Greek has κουμπάρος / κουμπάρα (kumbaros / kumbara) for the persons who baptized you child. My dictionary traces them back to Italian compare, so maybe this word had the meaning or has it dialectally


&


			
				modus.irrealis said:
			
		

> For completeness, in Greek you'd be the νονός


I just wanted to add to moddus.irrealis' excellent post(s) that the names he mentions (κουμπάρος for the best man & νονός for the godfather) are colloquialisms.
In formal speech, the person who crowns the groom and bride (according to the rite of marriage in the Orthodox Church), is called «παράνυμφος» (pa'ranimfos, _m., f._); while the one who's a child's godparent is called «ανάδοχος» (a'naðoxos, _m., f._). In some geographical dialects of modern Greek (e.g. Cretan dialect), the baptized child is called «αναδεξιμιός» (anaðeksimi'os, _m._), «αναδεξιμιά» (anaðeksimi'a, _f._). Both «ανάδοχος» & «αναδεξιμιός, -μιά» derive from the ancient verb «ἀναδέχομαι» (ana'ðexomæ-->to accept, receive, take up)

[ð] is a voiced dental non-sibilant fricative
[x] is a voiceless velar fricative, known as the hard ch


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## Hakro

It might be interesting to know that, as an exception from practically all other languages, the *Finnish* words for godfather and godmother do not include "father" or "mother" in any form. Instead we have:

godfather = _kummisetä_ (setä = uncle, father's brother)
godmother = _kummitäti_ (täti = aunt)

We can also say just _kummi_ without particularizing the sex of the person. _Kummi_ can be either godfather or godmother.

Then we have the word _sylikummi_ meaning the person (godfather or godmother) who holds the baby in his/her arms _(syli)_ during the baptism procedure. Even there the sex of the person is never mentioned.

(As an exception from general conventionalities, in my family it has always been the father who holds the baby.)


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## jazyk

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *kusurija*
> 
> 
> Czech:
> kmotr/kmotra (compadre/comadre).
> 
> In Polish the same, but also kumotr i kumotra. Both come from  Latin com-mater (there is no com-pater).



Kmotr and kmotra mean padrinho and madrinha (godfather and godmother), not compadre and comadre. See the first post.


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## Encolpius

Yes, some members could confuse the terms, because there is no English term and would think it is all about godparents. And I also think (just like in French) younger generation would not know the expressions, because I have got the feeling those terms are not in anymore. So, once again people, we are searching 2 different terms: 

1) godfather - godmother = padrino - madrino
2) compadre - comadre *(no English word exists!!!)*

I am no native and I wonder myself if *Czechs *use kmotr/kmotra for compadre/comadre, but my Spanish-Czech dictionary says they do.


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## Encolpius

*Polish*: kum - kuma ???

*Slovak*: 

godfather - godmother = krstný - krstá
compadre - comadre = kmotor - kmotra


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## Ben Jamin

Mikey_69 said:


> In Spanish the true ways of saying
> 
> Godmother and Godfather are:
> 
> 'Madrina' --and-- 'Padrino'
> 
> -------------------------------------
> In Portguese they're:
> 
> Madrinha --and-- Padrinho
> 
> ------------------------------------
> In Italian they're:
> 
> Padrina --and-- Padrino
> 
> -----------------------------------
> In French they're:
> 
> Marraine --and-- Parrain


 
But the question was not about the names of godparents in relation to their godchild, but to other godparents and/or to the child's parents.


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## rusita preciosa

In Russian, the person who took the "spiritual mentorship" responsibility for a child at its baptism is called:
крёстный отец /kriostnyi otets/ - godfather (lit. baptism father)
крёстная мать /kriostnaya mat'/ - godmother (lit. baptism mother)

in relation to the child's parents and to each other they would be:
кум /kum/ - godsib, compadre (masc)
кум*a* /kum*a*/ - godsib, compadr(a?) (fem)
(I actually did not know this one off-hand, I had to look it up).


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## rusita preciosa

Encolpius said:


> 2) compadre - comadre *(no English word exists!!!)*


apparently, it does: *godsib, **compadre* (?)
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godparent*


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## jazyk

> кум*a*  /kum*a*/ - godsib, compadr(a?) (fem)


It is comadre.

Regarding godsib, all dictionaries I have consulted define it as _gossip._


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## Encolpius

rusita preciosa said:


> apparently, it does: *godsib, **compadre* (?)
> *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godparent*



Concise Oxford English Dictionary: 
- godsib = not mentioned at all
- compadre = informal, a friend or companion

Oxford English Dictionary
- godsib, godsip = obsolete forms of gossip
1 One who has contracted spiritual affinity with another by acting as a sponsor at a baptism. 
a In relation to the person baptized: A godfather or godmother; a sponsor. Now only *arch*. and *dial*.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gossipetymology of gossip: 
O.E. godsibb  "godparent," from God + sibb "relative". Extended in M.E. to "any familiar  acquaintance" (mid-14c.), especially to woman friends invited to attend a  birth, later to "anyone engaging in familiar or idle talk" (1560s).  Sense extended 1811 to "trifling talk, groundless rumor." The verb  meaning "to talk idly about the affairs of others" is from 1620s.  Related: Gossiped; gossiping.


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## rusita preciosa

Wikipedia has been wrong before...
I checked Mirriam Webster and the word is not there.


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## Encolpius

rusita preciosa said:


> Wikipedia has been wrong before...
> I checked Mirriam Webster and the word is not there.



It can be right, but I doubt 1% of natives would know what it means, so it is better to forget it.


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## Encolpius

Well, Jazyk, it seems to me, the words exist in Portuguese, Spanish, Catalan and Hungarian only. But I also think most do not understand what it is about.  Too bad no Czech or Slovak comments from natives either.


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## rusita preciosa

Encolpius said:


> etymology of gossip:
> O.E. godsibb "godparent," from God + sibb "relative". Extended in M.E. to "any familiar acquaintance" (mid-14c.), especially to woman friends invited to attend a birth, later to "anyone engaging in familiar or idle talk" (1560s). Sense extended 1811 to "trifling talk, groundless rumor." The verb meaning "to talk idly about the affairs of others" is from 1620s. Related: Gossiped; gossiping.


It is interesting how there is a link between "godparent" and gossip". In Russian it exists too: sometimes *кумушка* /kumushka/ - the diminutive/endearment variation of *кума* (godmother) means "woman who likes to gossip".


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