# tam



## Whodunit

Okay, I've yet another Latin sentence that puzzles me:



> Aeneas patriam tam diu quaesitam in Latio invenit.


 
What I understand is that Aeneas came to Latius after the native country had been sought for long.

However, I have really no idea what "tam" means. I found that is an Old Latin form of "tandem", but ... I'm not sure.


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## diegodbs

"Tam diu" means for such a long time, for so long....


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## diegodbs

I'd rather translate "invenit" as "found" and not "arrived".

What did he find in Latium? Patriam tam diu quaesitam


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> "Tam diu" means for such a long time, for so long....


 
Okay, I only know the hyphenated version: tam-diu. Thanks for you help.


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> I'd rather translate "invenit" as "found" and not "arrived".
> 
> What did he find in Latium? Patriam tam diu quaesitam


 
Okay, that makes much more sense. I must have mixed up "invenire" with "pervenire". My translation, thus:

_In Latium, Aeneas found the native country he sought for so long._


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## diegodbs

Whodunit said:
			
		

> Okay, that makes much more sense. I must have mixed up "invenire" with "pervenire". My translation, thus:
> 
> _In Latium, Aeneas found the native country he sought for so long._


 
Or, "Latium became for Aeneas the homeland he had been waiting/searching/chasing for so long" because Aeneas' native country was Troy and not Latium. He lost Troy and he found another place to call his home.

Do you think the idea of native country and homeland might be better conveyed in this way?


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> Or, "Latium became for Aeneas the homeland he had been waiting/searching/chasing for so long" because Aeneas' native country was Troy and not Latium. He lost Troy and he found another place to call his home.


 
I'm not sure, but could it mean something like "Aeneas found a (new) native country (he was chasing for so long) in Latium"? That's my final understanding of the sentence. 



> Do you think the idea of native country and homeland might be better conveyed in this way?


 
I don't understand your question.


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## diegodbs

Whodunit said:
			
		

> I'm not sure, but could it mean something like "Aeneas found a (new) native country (he was chasing for so long) in Latium"? That's my final understanding of the sentence.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your question.


 
I meant that since "native country" is the country where you are born and Aeneas was not born in Latium but in Troy, perhaps "native country" was not the proper term to translate "patria". That's why I suggested "homeland".


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## Whodunit

diegodbs said:
			
		

> I meant that since "native country" is the country where you are born and Aeneas was not born in Latium but in Troy, perhaps "native country" was not the proper term to translate "patria". That's why I suggested "homeland".


 
Oh, you are right. But Merriam Webster says that "homeland", "native land", and "fatherland" are all the same. It declares them synonyms. But you seem to be right that "native country" doesn't fit well in this context.

PS: As I have to translate it into German, I don't care much about the exactly correct English word. In German, they are all "Vaterland".


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## kamome

"Enea found in Lazio the country _(that would become his new PATRIA, so HOMELAND appears the most suitable) _he had been searching for such a long time" 

_(about TAM, it can also be considered in such a position - TAM+DIU - sort of an abreviation of TANTUM)_

かもめ
​


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## Whodunit

kamome said:
			
		

> _(about TAM, it can also be considered in such a position - TAM+DIU - sort of an abreviation of TANTUM)_


That's an interesting thesis. "*Tam*-*diu*" could indeed be an abbreviation and mean "*ta*ntu*m diu*" (so long). Do you think that that's the only etymology we can find for "tam-diu"?

PS: The word "tam" seems to be an abbreviation for more words, such as "tandem" or "tamen".


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## kamome

oh well...let's consider DIU, evident-meant and "durative temporal" adverb - no, I cannot exclude other hypothesis about TAM...but I need to say that, in my experience with latin, the most frequent meaning range with it seems to be TANTUM, TANTO...we will then realise how in the hypothesis TAMEN (which is an oppositive,"nevertheless"), as well as in the TANDEM one ("together", conjunctive), the total meaning would be in a latin mind far different than the one we have just found out herein...​


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