# 桂树 on the Moon



## Romeo4755

Hello!
A magic rabbit grinds powder of immortality under 桂树, a legend says.
Does anybody know the exact plant species of the tree? My dictionaries give me translations of totally different plants: laurel, cassia and osmanthus? Do you know which one is it?
Thank you in advance.  🌺


----------



## hx1997

Seems to be Osmanthus fragrans, but I'm no expert on mythological flora. :/


----------



## HakunaPatata

I would say an Osmanthus fragrans.

1. Osmanthus fragrans - Wikipedia
_"Cultural associations
... Osmanthus wine is a traditional choice for the 'reunion wine' drunk with one's family, and osmanthus-flavored confections and teas may also be consumed. Chinese mythology held that a sweet osmanthus grows on the moon and was endlessly cut by Wu Gang ..."_

2. Reply to Li Shuyi - Wikipedia
问讯吴刚何所有，吴刚捧出*桂花酒*(Osmanthus wine)。—— 《蝶恋花·答李淑一》毛泽东


----------



## Shengmen

I haven't found a definitive answer to the question, either. But it seems that the most popular candidate among the ordinary Chinese is _Osmanthus fragrans _（桂花树）, as is reflected in the poem by Mao Zedong in HakunaPatata's post above.


----------



## lukey

_桂花树 sweet-scented osmanthus tree_


----------



## Romeo4755

Thank you so much for your opinions. I am now choosing between _osmanthus _and cinnamon - because its bark is a potent Chinese medicine and is associated with immortality in some way - and it goes in powder, and that's what the rabbit grinds, some kind of powder.
PS  And now I've bumped in two 'laurels' in linguistic articles in English yuezhongzhegui  月中折桂 (tearing the laurel branches  in  the  moon)
 Back to square 1!
[moderator note: expletive redacted]
I found this on the net:
East Asia​An early Chinese etiological myth for the phases of the moon involved a great forest or tree which quickly grew and lost its leaves every month. After the Sui and Tang dynasties, this was sometimes connected to a woodsman named Wu Gang,. The tree was originally identified as a 桂 (_guì_) and described in the terms of the osmanthus (_Osmanthus fragrans_, now known as the 桂花 or "_gui_ flower"), still used to flavor wine and confections for the Mid-Autumn Festival. However, in English, it is often associated with the more well-known cassia (_Cinnamomum cassia_, known 肉桂 or "meat _gui_") while, in modern Chinese, it has instead become associated with the Mediterranean laurel. By the Qing dynasty, the _chengyu_ "pluck osmanthus in the Toad Palace" (蟾宫折桂, _Chángōng zhé guì_) meant passing the imperial examinations,  held around the time of the lunar festival. The similar association in Europe of laurels with victory and success led to its translation into Chinese as the 月桂 or "Moon _gui_".
Laurus nobilis - Wikipedia
 Medicinally it has to be cinnamon! As we all know, its bark powder makes people immortal.


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> Does anybody know the exact plant species of the tree?


It depends on the context. For example, if you are talking about 玉兔把桂枝搗成仙藥 or "月中有桂, 下有一人常斫之, 樹瘡隨合" then the 桂 (《說文解字.桂》江南木, 百藥之長) refers to a *木桂樹* (a cinnamon tree; i.e., a tree of the genus Cinnamomum noted for its speedy regeneration 樹瘡隨合, 砍了又生) belonging to the laurel family Lauraceae (樟科) that includes 牡桂 (Chinese cinnamon; _Cinnamomum cassia_) and 月桂 (bay laurel; _Laurus nobilis_).  If you are talking about 吳剛用桂樹的花果釀酒, then the 桂 refers to a *桂花樹* (an osmanthus tree) belonging to the olive family Oleaceae (木樨科).

調味、製藥 (e.g., 桂枝湯) ==> 比較可能是 cinnamon.
泡茶、釀酒 (e.g., 桂花酒) ==> 比較可能是 osmanthus.

什麼朝代編造的故事?
中古之前 ==> cinnamon
近代, 中古之後 (e.g., "吳剛捧出桂花酒") ==> 比較可能是 osmanthus


----------



## HakunaPatata

一、中秋节之中国传统节日/The Mid-Autumn Festival - 中国日报网
"The immortal let Wu Gang to cut down the sweet osmanthus tree on the moon and informed him that he could become an immortal once he cut down the tree."

二、诗词 两汉乐府 董逃行
玉兔长跪捣药虾蟆丸。(《汉乐府·董逃行》)

三、“白兔捣药虾蟆丸"含义辨析_腾讯新闻
“白兔捣药虾蟆丸”含义辨析
3.白兔所捣药丸成分分析
      ...... 
      由前所述，白兔所捣药丸的成分既然否定了虾蟆或蟾酥，那么对其成分的回答则需要结合文献记载和出土实物。《神农本草经》载：“上药一百二十种为君，主养命以应天，无毒，多服，久服不伤人，欲轻身益气，不老延年者，本上经。”上品以丹砂、云母、禹余粮、紫石英、天门冬等众多石药及草本药为主。而在《圣济总录》第198～200卷《神仙服饵门》中也未见蟾蜍，所列的丹砂、赤石脂、云母、雄黄等均见于汉代文献及墓葬陪葬品中。
     《列仙传》是在汉代神仙思想盛行的情况下,刘向出于对神仙的向往和宣传神仙方术的动机而作，是反映汉代人们探索不死药的积极实践的重要作品。书中通过对偓佺、安期先生、瑕丘仲、赤须子等成仙过程的介绍，旨在指出多种成仙的模式和途径，其中以服食各种神药、仙药为主，其成分上也是以草本药和石药为主，如松实、松脂、天门冬、桂枝、石钟乳、丹砂，却没有关于虾蟆或蟾蜍为仙药的记载。
      出土实物也能与文献记载相印证，山东巨野西汉红土山墓出土的药丸为代赭石、赤石脂或禹余粮等多种矿物的混合。广州南越王墓中出土有中草药材、丹药铅丸以及由紫水晶、硫磺、雄黄、赭石和绿松石组成的“五石散”。海昏侯刘贺墓出土了丹砂、虫草及五味子。上述墓中和药材、药丸一同出土的还有铜或铁药臼杵，其与汉画所表现的药臼杵形制一致。如南越王墓出土有铜臼、铜杵和铜臼、铁杵各一套（图5），而紫水晶、赭石与绿松石、硫磺与雄黄的硬度分别为7度、5～6度、1～2度，因此铁杵和铜杵2种材质是用来分别捣碎不同硬度矿物药，以备不同之需而配置，可见其与画像上药臼杵均是不死之药的积极实践。


----------



## Romeo4755

Are you saying that Wu Gang and the Rabbit use DIFFERENT  trees? 
Then which tree is the Moon palace (=Laurel palace) named after?
I do not really know Chinese - is Hakuna Patata suggesting grinding the toad instead of cinnamon?


HakunaPatata said:


> 由前所述，白兔所捣药丸的成分既然否定了虾蟆或蟾酥，那么对其成分的回答则需要结合文献记载和出土实物。《神农本草经》载：“上药一百二十种为君，主养命以应天，无毒，多服，久服不伤人，欲轻身益气，不老延年者，本上经。”上品以丹砂、云母、禹余粮、紫石英、天门冬等众多石药及草本药为主。而在《圣济总录》第198～200卷《神仙服饵门》中也未见蟾蜍，所列的丹砂、赤石脂、云母、雄黄等均见于汉代文献及墓葬陪葬品中。


​


----------



## HakunaPatata

@Romeo4755
My humble opinion:
1. The 桂树 on the moon is a self-healing osmanthus fragans tree which Wu Gang keeps cutting day after day.
2. As far as I know, the legend “玉兔捣药yù tù dǎo yào” just tells us that there is a hare on the moon constantly pounding herbs in order to make the elixir of life. I have not seen any evidence on the internet that the hare uses the 桂树 on the moon (no matter what kind of 桂树 it is) as an ingredient to make the elixir of immortality.


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> Wu Gang and the Rabbit use DIFFERENT trees?


Myths about the moon have evolved over time, and the meanings of 桂(樹) have expanded and shifted from Cinnamomum to Osmanthus over time as well. The 桂樹 in *漢*.淮南小山【招隱士】桂樹叢生兮山之幽，偃蹇連蜷兮枝相繚 refers to the genus Cinnamomum in that 山之幽 is NOT an inviting environment for the osmanthus, a sun-loving shrub that can grow densely (叢生) only in full sun and is by no means "偃蹇" (= 高聳貌).  In contrast, young cinnamon trees grow best in part shade although they can tolerate more sun when mature.  The Chinese cinnamon can grow up to 60 feet tall and 40 feet wide.


HakunaPatata said:


> 玉兔长跪捣药虾蟆丸。(《汉乐府·董逃行》)
> 《列仙传》...各种神药、仙药...其成分上也是以草本药和石药为主，如松实、松脂、天门冬、*桂枝*、石钟乳、丹砂...


桂枝 refers to cinnamon sticks in traditional Chinese medicine. In the context of 玉兔搗仙藥, we may assume that 桂枝 (cinnamon sticks), one of the common ingredients of the immortality medicine listed in《列仙傳》, is probably used in 玉兔's 仙藥 and the 桂樹 on the moon may be the source for the ingredient.


HakunaPatata said:


> The 桂树 on the moon is a self-healing osmanthus fragans tree which Wu Gang keeps cutting day after day.


Cinnamon, not osmanthus, is known for speedy regeneration.  "_In Indonesia, cinnamon is often called the 'grass of Kerinci' because it begins to __grow back almost immediately after it is cut_."


HakunaPatata said:


> "The immortal let Wu Gang to cut down the sweet osmanthus tree "


This (桂樹 = sweet osmanthus) is a modern translation or interpretation.


Romeo4755 said:


> A magic rabbit grinds powder of immortality under 桂树


"_A man smoking a cigar under an umbrella_" does not imply that the umbrella is used as an ingredient of the cigar.  Likewise, "_a rabbit grinding powder under a tree_" does not imply that the tree is used as an ingredient of the powder.  As a result, the context is not sufficient for me to determine the genus of the 桂樹.

Anyway, if your question is about the earliest myth of a 桂樹 on the moon (e.g., 西漢《淮南子》月中有桂樹), then I would say that the 桂樹 is probably a cinnamon tree.  If your question is about 月中的桂樹 in the minds of the modern Chinese people, then I would say that it is more likely an osmanthus tree than a cinnamon tree.


----------



## Romeo4755

受教了
Thank you very much for the ideas. I guess there's just no one thorough and well-accepted understanding in the matter.


> "_A man smoking a cigar under an umbrella_"


I haven't thought of that!
The expression 'laurel palace' is very usual in English literature and articles. It must be wrong however.


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> Does anybody know the exact plant species of the tree?


Like the "_octopus_" (a soft-bodied, eight-limbed mollusc), which consists of some 300 species, 桂 denotes a family of "woody plants" (i.e., 木 as in 木+圭 = 桂) that share certain physical characteristics (e.g., aromatic; evergreen; flowering; with berrylike drupes).  In other words, 桂 is not the name of a plant species but the name of a plant "family". It may refer to (1) *cinnamon trees*, (2) *osmanthus*, and (3) laurel trees, like English *cassia* (from Latin _cassia_ 'cinnamon', Ancient Greek _κασσία _'cinnamon', Hebrew _qĕṣī‘āh_ 'cinnamon', _qatsa_ 'to cut off, strip off bark'), which according to Wikipedia may refer to (1) *cinnamon trees*, (2) *osmanthus*, and (3) a leguminous genus of the Fabaceae family. 桂 in Japanese also includes the *katsura *(the Japanese Judas tree; Cercidiphyllum japonicum), from Old Japanese _ka_ (香 'fragrance') +‎ _zu_ (出 'come out') + _ra_ (ら, nominalizing suffix). Interestingly, Old Chinese 桂 *_kʷˤes_ and Hebrew_ qĕṣ_- in _qĕṣī‘āh_ 'cinnamon' are somewhat similar in sound.  They are false cognates (with similar sounds and meanings but different etymologies).


Romeo4755 said:


> I guess there's just no one thorough and well-accepted understanding in the matter.


Well, if you ask whether 玉兔 is a rabbit or a hare, there will be no consensus on that matter because 兔 corresponds to _Leporidae_ (name of the family of rabbits and hares).


----------



## Romeo4755

skating-in-bc said:


> Well, if you ask whether 玉兔 is a rabbit or a hare, there will be no consensus on that matter because 兔 corresponds to _Leporidae_ (name of the family of rabbits and hares).


Ah, this is already kicking a person who is lying on the ground. 😆
However, I wouldn't agree that difference between osmanthus, cinnamon and laurel is equal to that between octopi. More like how a fox is different from a wolf - both canine.
The problem is that in English not only each 桂树 species has its own name but also a whole variety of metaphors, legends, symbols etc basing on its nature.Also, 'laurel palace' sounds glorious while 'cinnamon palace' sounds like somebody's going to bake an apple pie.


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> The problem is that in English not only each 桂树 species has its own name but also a whole variety of metaphors, legends, symbols etc basing on its nature.Also, 'laurel palace' sounds glorious while 'cinnamon palace' sounds like somebody's going to bake an apple pie.


As I have emphasized already, it depends on the context. "*Laurel Palace*" as a translation of the 西漢長安*桂宫* can evoke an image of a luxurious palace made from the expensive, insect-repellent lumber of *camphor laurel* (_Cinnamomum camphora_) native to China south of the Yangtze River. 東漢.許慎《說文解字.桂》江南木. The Han dynasty was established by the 劉 clan from 沛縣 in northern Jiangsu, not too far from the Yangtze River.  It is very likely that the 劉 clan took great expense to build a palace with lumber transported from far-away 江南 to the capital 長安 for nostalgic and ostentatious motives. I however prefer "*Cassia Palace*" for the 桂宫 on the moon.  My mental image of the 桂宫 (or 廣寒宮) is 瓊樓玉宇, not made from 桂木.


Romeo4755 said:


> I wouldn't agree that difference between osmanthus, cinnamon and laurel is equal to that between octopi. More like how a fox is different from a wolf - both canine.


Take camphor laurel (_Cinnamomum camphora_) as an example.  Its common name indicates it is a laurel, while its scientific name indicates it is a cinnamon.  For some people, they are not as clear-cut as you might think.


----------



## Romeo4755

skating-in-bc said:


> ... the 劉 clan from 沛縣 in northern Jiangsu, not too far from the Yangtze River.  It is very likely that the 劉 clan took great expense to build a palace with lumber transported from far-away 江南 to the capital 長安 for nostalgic and ostentatious motives.


From what I heard from Sima Qian, Liu Ban's palace WeiYangGong was designed and started to be constructed by his counselor Xiao He by himself. As for Liu Ban, when he came back home and saw magnificent entrance arches, he got displeased and said that TianXia is still in turmoil and whose victory it would be yet remains to see, so it is absolutely irresponsible to upraise such huge constructions.
Doesn't look like nostalgia had been at work here.
Anyway, was talking about associated images for European readers. Laurel is romantic, cinnamon is not, it is a bakery ingredient and a color.  😆


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> Liu Ban...saw magnificent entrance arches, he got displeased


桂宫 was built in the reign of 劉徹（*漢武帝*, 156BC-87BC), not 劉邦 (漢高祖, 256BC-195BC).


skating-in-bc said:


> nostalgic


I meant nostalgia for ancestral home and cultures.  The use of 桂 lumber was strongly associated with 楚, from which the 劉 clan originally came.  For example,
《*楚*辭.七諫.自悲》構*桂木*而為室.
《*楚*辭.九歌.湘夫人》*桂棟*兮蘭橑.
《*楚*辭.九歌.湘君》*桂櫂*兮蘭枻.
《*楚*辭.九歌·湘君*》*沛吾乘兮*桂舟*_._
The wood of 桂 was considered a fancy material. For example,《戰國策·楚策三》*楚*國之食貴於玉, 薪貴於*桂*。


skating-in-bc said:


> ostentatious


The 桂宫 was full of treasures and fancy materials. For example,
漢.辛氏《三秦記》桂宮中有明光殿, 皆金玉珠璣為簾箔, 綴明月珠金, 砌玉階, 晝夜光明。
《西京雜記》漢武帝為七寳床, 雜寳案, 八寳屛風, 列寳帳, 設於桂宫, 時人謂之四寳堂.


Romeo4755 said:


> talking about associated images for European readers.


The laurel is a symbol of victory, which goes well with the "武" of *漢武帝*, who was noted for his military successes.  That's why I think 'Laurel Palace' is a good translation of 西漢長安*桂宫*. (But I don't think it is a good translation of the 桂宫 on the moon.)


----------



## Romeo4755

skating-in-bc said:


> 桂宫 was built in the reign of 劉徹（*漢武帝*, 156BC-87BC), not 劉邦 (漢高祖, 256BC-195BC).


Ah. I see. I even missed the point that the palace itself had 桂 in its official name. I stand corrected.
I understood the situation like Liu Bang who accepted official duties had to move west and felt less homesick taking some osmanthus wood with him.  😆
Still, nostalgia is a far-fetched theory from my point of view. Unless Pei is the famous birth cradle of osmanthus and every person whose ancestors come from Pei craves for the feel of this wood all his life. 🙂 (This may be the case however, I just do not know.)


> (But I don't think it is a good translation of the 桂宫 on the moon.)


I don't think it either.


> That's why I think 'Laurel Palace' is a good translation of 西漢長安*桂宫*.


How can it be good if it is wrong?! The timber species if not laurel!


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> felt less homesick taking some *osmanthus* wood with him...Unless Pei is the famous birth cradle of *osmanthus*


Hm, I've told you in so many words that 桂 refers to _Cinnamomum spp. _during the Han dynasty and prior.

【楚辭植物圖鑑】"近人湯炳正研究《楚辭》, 甚至說古人所言的「桂」, 指的全是肉桂, 而非桂花(木樨)." ==> 桂 in《楚辭》refers to _Cinnamomum spp._, not osmanthus. 

「蟾宮折桂」，可不要折錯了 (2020/10/01 現代科學文化): "漢武帝信奉神仙, 在太初四年建造了一座宮殿, 取名叫「*桂宮*」, 接著再建迎神的*桂館*、*桂台*, 在甘泉宮南的昆明池中直接以*桂木為柱*修建了水上宮室靈波殿。...在先秦魏晉南北朝時期，所有的「桂」幾乎都指樟樹。==> From 先秦 to 魏晉南北朝, 桂 almost always refers to Lauraceae (樟科), which includes cinnamon and laurel, but not osmanthus.

The character 桂 first appeared in 楚系簡帛. During the Han dynasty, it was still strongly associated with 楚, like _spaghetti_ is still strongly associated with Italian.

劉邦生於戰國時代*楚*國的沛豐邑中陽里.


----------



## Romeo4755

skating-in-bc said:


> Hm, I've told you in so many words that 桂 refers to _Cinnamomum spp. _during the Han dynasty and prior.


(Small remark in brackets: I'm getting along with Chinese logic, 桂 may even mean 'oak' or 'birch' for me already.  😆  I am not serious of course.)
Yes, of course. Cinnamon. That's what I ve been meaning.



> ...在先秦魏晉南北朝時期，所有的「桂」幾乎都指樟樹。


Or laurel. 
No problem.
🙂
Or is camphor tree ANOTHER species (not cinnamon, not laurel)?! All these camphor balms, where do they come from?


----------



## skating-in-bc

Romeo4755 said:


> How can it be good if it is wrong?! The timber species if not laurel!


I guess you naturally would interpret the "_laurel_" in "_Laurel Palace_" in a narrow sense, that is, the genus _Laurus_ (月桂), which is not indigenous to China.  Indeed, 桂宮 was built in the Han dynasty.  The myth of a 桂樹 on the moon (西漢《淮南子》月中有桂樹) also started in the Han dynasty.  The genus _Laurus_ (月桂) was, however, absent in ancient China of the Han dynasty.


skating-in-bc said:


> 「蟾宮折桂」，可不要折錯了 (2020/10/01 現代科學文化): 在先秦魏晉南北朝時期，所有的「桂」幾乎都指*樟樹*。


"樟樹" here refers to trees of the Lauraceae family (樟科).  It is a modern usage.  In the Han dynasty, the character 樟 didn't even exist.  People of the Han dynasty still transliterated the dialectal name for the camphor trees with the character 章, suggesting that the trees were still foreign to "them" (I mean 漢朝西域人民所稱的 "秦人", 也就是 "漢人", 特別是西北的漢人, 譬如, 首都長安的人).  Their knowledge of the Lauraceae was largely restricted to the Cinnamomum genera. Not until the later dynasties were the Cinnamomum genera divided into two sections in Chinese minds: (1) 桂 (sect. Cinnamomum) and (2) 樟 (sect. Camphora).

There are many native Cinnamomum species that are known for high quality wood (e.g., 銀葉桂 Cinnamomum mairei; 天竺桂Cinnamomum pedunculatum).


----------



## Romeo4755

skating-in-bc said:


> I guess you naturally would interpret the "_laurel_" in "_Laurel Palace_" in a narrow sense, that is, the genus _Laurus_ (月桂), which is not indigenous to China.  Indeed, 桂宮 was built in the Han dynasty.  The myth of a 桂樹 on the moon (西漢《淮南子》月中有桂樹) also started in the Han dynasty.  The genus _Laurus_ (月桂) was, however, absent in ancient China of the Han dynasty.


Thank you so much for your explanations and I feel very bad for making clever innocent people waste their time on dumb me! Taking into account the habitat of tree species in the Han dynasty makes the matter even more fascinating.
I just couldn't bring myself to accept the fact that 'laurel palace' is not actually laurel.  🙂 In English the meaning is precise and only - lat. laurus.


----------



## Romeo4755

Thousand thanks for recommending this wonderful book:
Reading Chu Ci with it is like getting to a new wonderful realm.


----------

