# "Benim Kitabim var" why "Kitabim"?



## maclinux

Hello, I have a problem to understand why for example "Kitap" gets to "Kitabim".

Example: (Benim) Kitabim var. Engl.: I have a Book.
I have searched in differend Turkish Books to find a hint for this Problem, but I didn't find a Solution.

Here are the 6 cases to decline "(the) Book" in the Turkish language:

Nom.: kitap 
Akk.: kitabı 
Dat.: kitaba 
Gen.: kitabın
Lok.: kitapta 
Abl.: kitaptan

In this 6 cases I can't find any "Kitabim".

If I use "to have" for other Nouns, how do I know to decline then proper?

Regards maclinux


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## Rallino

Turkish doesn't have the verb _to have_. Instead we say _there is my book_. (or in German: _es gibt mein Buch._)

(Benim) kitabım = my book
Var = there is.

Benim kitabım var. = I have a book.
Senin kitabın var. = You have a book. (lit. There is your book.)
Onun kitabı var. = She has a book. (lit. There is her book.)
and it goes like that.

To say "I don't have a book," replace _var_ with *yok: *_Benim kitabım yok. _(lit: my book there isn't.)


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## maclinux

Hello Rallino, thanks for your quick answer.

Which case is the sentence about "I have a book - (Benim) Kitabim var." or can't I follow the normal pattern of cases?
Did I unterstood what you wanted to write me, that the Noun follows the Vowel harmony when you are using "to have".

I know about "to have" in the Turkish language, I have found the despriction about "to have"
in my book "Dummies für Türkisch" on page 59.

Regards, maclinux


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## Rallino

maclinux said:


> Which case is the sentence about "I have a book - (Benim) Kitabim var." or can't I follow the normal pattern of cases?


"Kitabım" is not a case. It's "kitap" + 1st person possessive suffix (= my).

The possessive suffixes are:
-(i)m
-(i)n
-(s)i
-(i)miz
-(i)niz
-(s)i / -leri

So,
Kitabım = my book
Kitabın = your book
Kitabı = his/her book
Kitabımız = our book
Kitabınız = your book
Kitapları = their book

These are all in the nominative case.


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## CHovek

maclinux said:


> Hello, I have a problem to understand why for example "Kitap" gets to "Kitabim".
> 
> Example: (Benim) Kitabim var. Engl.: I have a Book.
> I have searched in differend Turkish Books to find a hint for this Problem, but I didn't find a Solution.
> 
> Here are the 6 cases to decline "(the) Book" in the Turkish language:
> 
> Nom.: kitap
> Akk.: kitabı
> Dat.: kitaba
> Gen.: kitabın
> Lok.: kitapta
> Abl.: kitaptan
> 
> In this 6 cases I can't find any "Kitabim".
> 
> If I use "to have" for other Nouns, how do I know to decline then proper?
> 
> Regards maclinux


 
Nom.:kitabım
Akk.: kitabımı
Dat.: kitabıma
Gen.: kitabımın
Lok.: kitabımda
Abl.: kitabımdan



As an aside, "Kitabın" has two meanings.

Kitabın=       1) your book

Kitabın .....= 2)(the colour/the cover etc) "of the book".


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## maclinux

Hello Rallino, hello CHovek, much thanks for your answers and help about "kitabım". Turkish is very tricky when using 
"to have" and thinking about how to write the noun which I wan't to use with this verb.

I'm married with a turkish woman, what grown-up in Germany, but she is no help with learning Turkish.
Her family tells me how easy Turkish is, but I can't agree. Turkish is very hard to learn. The grammar isn't logical
like in Polish, what I can speak, understand, write and read good.

Regards, maclinux


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## wavecrash

Hello,

I am a newcomer. Turkish is my native tongue. I will not be able to address questions with a command of grammar subjects good enough to classify what is dative or accusative whatever, but I can try to explain any possible logic operating behind Turkish usages which you may have a hard time wrapping your head around.

The possessive pronouns, as I believe that is what you call them in English, are generally used in their abbreviated forms in Turkish. It is only when you feel the need to put an emphasis on the possessive part of the expression that you use both words with the corresponding suffixes.

Let's break it apart:

Ben-im kitap-ım

When you use possessive pronouns the same suffix signifying possession has to append both the possessor and the possessed with an intention to clarify exactly this, namely, that who possesses and that which is possessed (by who possesses it), in this particular order. So in the first word this suffix is all about possessing whereas in the second word it's all about being possessed. Depending on what you want to emphasize in the sentence you may 1. only use "kitabım", which, while it lets others know whom the book is possessed by, puts the emphasis on the book 2. use "benim kitabım", which, while it lets others know that there is a book and it is yours, it also makes sure they catch your drift, that its being a book is not so much important as its being yours. You might want to use this kind of emphasis to serve many purposes, as in the examples, below:

- Kitabın altı çizilir mi ya, ne biçim kullanıyorsun kitabı? (Who would underline a book like that, where are your manners?) 
+ Kendi işine bak sen. Bu benim kitabım. ( [You- yet another emphasis] mind your own business. This is MY book.) (meaning I'll do whatever I want with it)

-Bence bu bölümü iyice çalıştık. Artık paydos diyelim, toplanıp çıkalım. (derken kendi kitabıyla başkasınınkini karıştırır ve kitabı sırt çantasına koymak üzeredir)
 I think we've studied this chapter thoroughly. Let's call it a day, pack up and go. (meanwhile mistakes his book for someone else's and is about to put it into his backpack)
+ Hop, hop, hayır, o BENIM kitabım. BU senin/seninki.

Whoa whoa, no, that's MY book. THIS one is yours.

While kitabım and benim kitabım mean the same thing, there is no way in Turkish for you to be able to convey aforementioned meanings just by substituting "benim kitabım" with "kitabım."



In other cases than when you need to make such emphasis, it is generally redundant to use both in the same sentence. The object being possessed along with its suffix(kitabım, in this example) should suffice.


What problems would arise had "benim kitap" (exact translation of my book) been the standard usage in Turkish?

See the sentence below:

- Benim kitapları geri almam lazım. I have to take (those) books back.

This sentence would be ambiguous if the possession suffix weren't repeated. The sentence above could mean two things in that case: 1. I have to get those books back. 2. I have to get my books back.

Omitting "benim", which seems redundant here, also omits the ambiguity, seeing as "kitapları geri almam lazım" just means "I have to get those books back." and "kitaplarımı geri almam lazım" just means "I have to get my books back." So unless we need to make an emphasis using both would be redundant and could at times be confusing, especially when lacking context. It, however, would not be wrong.

Why did we even begin to use the same suffix for both the possessive pronoun and the noun in the first place? That, I guess, has to do with the fact that Turkish is agglutinative.

I hope this clears things out for you.


---

sidenote:

There is this thing called "ek-fiil" in Turkish. Benim kitabım may seem like just a clause to you. It can also be used as a sentence, in fact. You can see this in my last example (o benim kitabım = that "is" my book. You might be wondering now how the hell this can happen when there is no conjugation in the sentence. Well there is, but it's dropped. Just like the the word "that" can be dropped in sentences such as "I know (that) you love pizza." O benim kitabım is the shortened version of "o benim kitabım*dır*." and is the preferred usage because the "-dir" addition has come to be used in such a way as to denote generalizations and distinguish them from other present tense forms. You are expected to say " F=ma newton'ın hareket kanunlarının ikincisi*dir*. " (f=ma is the 2nd law of newton's laws of motion.) but not "bugün hava güzeldir." (the weather is beautiful today.) you are instead supposed to say "bugün hava güzel". We mentally amount that to "bugün hava güzeldir" in our minds, the difference being you are not imposing your opinion on us. when you use -dir, you either state something for a fact or mean to make it your point to let others know you are confident in making certain claims, assertions. You are mindfully being assertive. Or you just want to shove things down throats and not feel apologetic aabout it. Depends on the context.

If you say "bugün hava güzeldir" instead of "bugün hava güzel", it'd mean that you are trapped somehow and making the following assumption: "it must really be nice outside. the weather must be nice."  Or, say you're abroad and talking on Skype with some friend from your homeland and you say things like "orada hava güzeldir şimdi." (nowadays, the weather must be nice there.)


It might seem like I digressed but this dropped -dir conjugation has a lot to do with "benim kitabım" as the preferred manner of emphasis.

when you compare "benim kitabım seninkinden daha sürükleyici." (my book is more captivating than yours.) with "kitabım kitabından daha sürükleyici" (same):

1. as said earlier, it emphasizes that said book is yours. you are in fact boasting the possession of having a more captivating book.
2. "benim kitabım" is the subject in this sentence and involves no dropped conjugation but its emphasis effect is akin to when it is used as a conjugation.

I hope I didn't complicate things more with the side note. If I did, you're welcome to say so and ask more questions if you want to. If you don't want to do that and would rather give yourself a break, then scratch my sidenote and just stick with the reply proper.


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