# 長 (おさ)



## Riccardo91

Dear Japanese forum,

I have a question about the possible meanings of the 長 kanji when it's pronounced as おさ. Can this word be interpreted as "elder", meaning a person who is respected due to his age and experience, or is this meaning only possible with the ちょう reading?

Thank you very much!


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## SoLaTiDoberman

おさ means "the top person of that society/group" or "the representative of that society or group, who is usually an elderly person."

ちょう means both the position or the person of being the top of a group.
ちょう is not used by its own, but used in combined words such as:
社長（しゃちょう）　会長（かいちょう）　部長（ぶちょう）　係長（かかりちょう）　室長（しつちょう）　市長（しちょう）　町長（ちょうちょう）　婦長（ふちょう） 店長（てんちょう）.

Basically, おさ and ちょう means the same thing.
おさ is 訓読み and ちょう is 音読み.
However, I cannot help feeling that おさ is an obsolete word, and it has the connotation that the person is an elderly.

Younger people can become a **長(ちょう）, but I don't think we call them "おさ".

(edit) Sorry, I edit this post before I see #3. (けど、話の流れとしては矛盾してない、ですよね？）


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## DaylightDelight

I don't agree with SLTD in one point: I don't think おさ itself has the connotation of "elder".
In traditional societies, especially where the leaders were called おさ, those leaders tended to be old
and おさ and "elder" might have been synonymous.
But today, I think おさ simply means "leader" and the word itself doesn't have anything to do with age.
The same goes with ちょう; it doesn't mean the person should necessaryly be old.
"Respected elder" would be 長老  (ちょうろう).


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## 810senior

According to the dictionary, おさ does not have the implication of the elder but of the leader in some field.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

810senior said:


> According to the dictionary, おさ does not have the implication of the elder but of the leader in some field.


Yes. 辞書の定義はそうなんです。
そうなんですが、自分の印象としては「おさ」という言葉自体が昔のcontextの中でしか用いられず、その時代には「長」になるヒトは必然的に高齢のヒトであり、逆に、たとえば、村長が急死して、その若い息子が村長の役を継いだとした時に「*うちの村の若いおさが*、村八分は廃止すると言い出したんだッペ」というふうには使わないんじゃないかと思ったんです。だから、オリジナルポスターの定義はあたらずとも遠からずと思ったんです。

でも考え直してみると、「うちの村の若いおさが、・・・」と言えるような気がしてきました。

So I'd want to retract #2, and agree with #3 and #4.


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## DaylightDelight

DaylightDelight said:


> In traditional societies, especially where the leaders were called おさ, those leaders tended to be old and おさ and "elder" might have been synonymous.





SoLaTiDoberman said:


> 自分の印象としては「おさ」という言葉自体が昔のcontextの中でしか用いられず、その時代には「長」になるヒトは必然的に高齢のヒトであり、


ですね。私も「おさ」の印象としては「長老」に近いものを感じますし、「若いおさ」には正直違和感を感じないでもないです。が、壮年ぐらいのおさだったら結構ありかも、とか考えていくと、結局辞書どおりのリーダーという意味に落ち着いていくのかな、と。


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## ktdd

I'm under the impression that おさ has the connotation of being old. 幼い apparently comes from おさ＋ない (that's how I managed to commit it to memory). But times change. Meanings drift...


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## DaylightDelight

ktdd said:


> I'm under the impression that おさ has the connotation of being old. 幼い apparently comes from おさ＋ない (that's how I managed to commit it to memory).


Wow, you're right about 幼い; I didn't know that.  This web dictionary clearly states so (おさない【幼い】の意味 - goo国語辞書):

［形］［文］をさな・し［ク］《「長 (をさ) 無し」の意》
And when 長 is read ちょう, it still has that meaning of seniority (ちょう【長】［漢字項目］の意味 - goo国語辞書):

年が多い。年上。「長兄・長女・長男・長幼・長老／年長」
However, the same dictionary says nothing about the seniority in it's おさ entry (おさ【長】の意味 - goo国語辞書):

多くの人の上に立ち、統率する人。頭 (かしら) 。ちょう。
I think both おさ and ちょう originally had the meaning of seniority, it has been lost from おさ.


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## 810senior

SoLaTiDobermanさん、辞書を引っ張り出しておきながら、自分も概ね同意見です。むしろ辞書に「老い」に関する言及が一切ないのが不思議なくらい。
そもそも「おさ」ってあまり使われない言葉なんですよね。


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## Riccardo91

Thank you very much to everyone who answered.

I did check the dictionary quoted by DaylightDelight, and that was one of the sources of my doubt. I didn't know about the origin of 幼い, though, and this is very interesting.

What bothered me is that the 長 I found in a story only "commands" (to a certain degree) two people, so "leader" seemed to me a bit excessive. However, it is instead a very respected elder. Also, this story is set up in 1800, so if the meaning shifted with time that might be the reason behind the choice of this particular word.

Thank you again, and if something else comes to your mind I'll be happy to read it! ^^

Riccardo


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