# Morgens gegen drei steht eine Frau hinter der Tür... (tense)



## newg

Hallo allerseits,

Ich muss diesen Satz übersetzen und ich habe ein paar Fragen: 

Hier ist der Satz:

"Morgens steht eine Frau hinter der Tür und ruft meinen Namen, und gerade diese Nacht ist bei mir" sagte er.

 - Was bedeutet "morgens" hier? _this morning, ce matin_? 

 - Ist es wirklich im Präsens oder gibt es eine Falle in diesem Satz? Eigentlich habe ich einige Schwierigkeiten, _gerade_ und _morgens_ zu verstehen. Ich weiß ja, was die Übersetzung ist aber ich wollte wissen, was es in diesem Kontext bedeutet.

*** 

Vielleicht bin ich unklar aber er spricht im Präsens (das kann man mit "gerade" bemerken) und dann spricht er im Präteritum (sagte) und das versteh ich nicht. Soll ich deswegen das Wort "gerade" in meinem Satz streichen?

Im Französischen ist es fast unmöglich zu sagen:

"Ce matin vers 3 heures, une femme se tient derrière la porte et appelle mon nom, et en ce moment Alena est avec moi..." dit-il 

That doesn't make any sense :/ 

Danke im Voraus!


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## ABBA Stanza

newg said:


> "Morgens gegen drei steht eine Frau hinter der Tür und ruft meinen Namen, und gerade diese Nacht ist bei mir" sagte er.
> 
> - Was bedeutet "morgens" hier? _this morning, ce matin_?


Well, my French is pretty lousy, but I think you'd rather say _"Vers 3 heures *le* matin"_ (i.e., _"Around three o'clock in the morning"_).

I think the last part ("und gerade diese Nacht ist bei mir") is not referring to the woman, but to the fact that the author has strong recollections of that night. But we'd better wait for the natives on that one. In any case, I have no idea how to translate that bit into French. 

Cheers,
Abba

P.S. I think it's the historisches Präsens that is being used here to more vividly describe events that happened in the past.


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## Tifoso Bonisolli

Personally, I'm convinced there's somewhat missing from that last part of the sentence. I can't make any sense of it.


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## newg

Ahhhhhh thanks a lot ABBA Stanza! I see now 

We just say "Vers 3 heures *du* matin" in French.


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## Hutschi

Hi, the sentence does not make sense. I fully agree with Tifoso. If it is original, you have to translate a grammar mistake.
The last part is incomplete. But it is essential. 

Both 
"each morning" and "today in the morning" are possible. It depends on the context.
So it is important to give this information.

und gerade diese Nacht ist *er/sie* bei mir" (subject of the subordinate clause is missing)

I assume it is a narrative style and means "in the morning" rather than "each morning" - but this is only a feeling. 
Do you have more context?

Be default "morgens" means "each morning". It can be changed be context to "in the morning" or "in this morning".


> Vielleicht bin ich unklar aber er spricht im Präsens (das kann man mit "gerade" bemerken) und dann spricht er im Präteritum (sagte) und das versteh ich nicht. Soll ich deswegen das Wort "gerade" in meinem Satz streichen?


The Präsens part is the part he says. (Wörtliche Rede.) The past part is about the speech. 
Example:  _He said "I am Hutschi"_. - rather than _He said "I was Hutschi"_.

You can transform the sentense to

Er sagte: "Morgens steht eine Frau hinter der Tür und ruft meinen Namen, und gerade diese Nacht ist (???) bei mir".

Why does he use the Präsens? 
It is a narrative style. He moves the point of view to the handling, as if he goes through it again. It has nothing to do with the past tense in "Er sagte".

"Diese Nacht ist bei mir" means "this night is with me" - I hope it sounds strange in English, too. It is possible if the night is "personalized", but I cannot see this in your text.


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## newg

Ooop's!!! My mistake... Of course something's missing!

".... und gerade diese Nacht Alena ist bei mir" 

I do not have more context, sorry... That's the first sentence of the text and the following don't provide more information. 

Thanks anyway for these helpful comments


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## Hutschi

newg said:


> "Morgens steht eine Frau hinter der Tür und ruft meinen Namen, und gerade diese Nacht *ist Alena* bei mir" sagte er.



Thank you. I corrected the sequence.

In this context "morgens" means following situation:

Alena stayed the night with me (she visited me). And in the morning a woman called my name.

---

So I tell:
"In the morning there is a wife behind the door and calls my name. And especially in this night Alena is with me."

As far as I see it the method of story telling is called "belebte Rede".

"gerade" = "ausgerechnet" indicates a surprice and that this is a strange and bad coincidence.


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## newg

Thanks Hutschi 

Concerning the first part of the sentence, since we have "gegen drei" after "morgens" I'd rather say: 

*At 3 o'clock this morning*, there's wife behind the door and she calls my name... 

Is it the meaning in German? 

Thanks a lot =)


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## Hutschi

They did not say something about the time.
*It is early in the morning, I would think between 3 and about seven o'clock.*
I would suppose it is during or short after morning dawn - and this depends on the month.

It is approximately the time when waking up in the morning with a difference of an hour or two - in this context.

Diese Nacht ist sie bei mir=heute hat sie bei mir übernachtet.

So I suppose it is a time when Alena has not left yet - otherwise there were no conflict.

I did not find "gegen drei" in your original posting and used the original text.

If it is there, it is "approximately three o'clock"

So I would add "about".
*At about 3 o'clock this morning*, there's wife behind the door and she calls my name...  (see Abba's correction later in the thread)

I am not a native English speaker, so you have to improve the style.
If "at" includes "about", you can omit "about".


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## newg

Ach, I omitted a lot of things in my original post! (grrr, but I didn't make any mistake in the French translation ^^) 

Sorry! Yes "gegen" means "approximately" 

Thanks


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## ABBA Stanza

Hutschi said:


> They did not say something about the time.
> (...)
> I did not find "gegen drei" in your original posting and use the original text.


It's in the thread title, though.



Hutschi said:


> If "at" includes "about", you can omit "about".


No, "at 3 o'clock" would be "um drei Uhr". You need an "about" or "around" to correspond to the meaning of "gegen" in German. It's possible to omit the "at", though. For example:

_Around 3 o'clock in the morning, ..._



Hutschi said:


> At about 3 o'clock this morning, there's wife behind the door and she calls my name...


I don't think he's talking about his wife (he said _"*eine* Frau"_, not _"*meine* Frau"_). I would either say "a woman" or (very common colloquially when telling stories) "this woman". Furthermore, unlike German, we use the present participle a lot in English, so a more natural translation would be (for example):

_Around 3 o'clock in the morning, there's this woman outside the door *calling* my name, ..._

Using the present participle shortens the sentence and makes it flow better.



newg said:


> (grrr, but I didn't make any mistake in the French translation ^^)


Are you sure? 

In particular, I note that you translated "gerade diese Nacht" as "en ce moment", so it looks like you've misunderstood "gerade" as meaning "momentan", whereas in this context it means (as Hutschi already indirectly pointed out) "ausgerechnet".

Also, note that "bei mir" probably means "*chez* moi" here. 

In fluent English, I would translate the whole sentence as something like:

_Around 3 o'clock in the morning, there's this woman outside the door calling my name, just when I happen to have Alena staying the night with me._

(Note: I had to rework the last part to make it sound more natural, without altering the original meaning.)

You need to find a way in French of expressing the irony of the other woman calling by at precisely the time the man telling the story needed it the least.

Cheers,
Abba


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## Hutschi

Thank you, Abba, for dramatically improving my style. I learned a lot. 

I did not see the "wife" issue because there is a false friend "Weib" in German and I concentrated at the other part.

But one question remains: Where does the "Drei" come from?

Did Abba insert it or is it in the text? 

The original reads more like "early in the morning/early this morning". (Maybe my style has to be corrected.)
"Drei" is possible but not very plausible. It is also 4 or 5 or even 6. "Morgens steht eine Frau ..."


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## ABBA Stanza

Hutschi said:


> But one question remains: Where does the "Drei" come from?


As I said, it's in the title of this thread (*"Morgens gegen drei steht eine Frau hinter der Tür... (tense)"*), and newg also included it in his original french translation (_"Ce matin vers 3 heures, ..."_). So I assumed that he had accidentally omitted it from the original German sentence.

Cheers,
Abba


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## Robocop

Ich vermute, es verhält sich wie folgt: 
Da erzählt jemand einer anderen Person von einer nächtlichen Episode:
"Morgens um drei steht meine Frau vor der Tür und ruft meinen Namen. Aber just in dieser Nacht ist Alena bei mir."


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## Hutschi

Robocop said:


> Ich vermute, es verhält sich wie folgt:
> Da erzählt jemand einer anderen Person von einer nächtlichen Episode:
> "Morgens um drei steht meine Frau vor der Tür und ruft meinen Namen. Aber just in dieser Nacht ist Alena bei mir."



Der Text sagt aber: "eine Frau". Das ist definitiv nicht "meine Frau". (Außer es gäbe mehr Kontext.)


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## Robocop

Hutschi said:


> Der Text sagt aber: "eine Frau". Das ist definitiv nicht "meine Frau". (Außer es gäbe mehr Kontext.)


Aber welchen Sinn ergäbe es, wenn "_eine_ Frau" anstatt "_meine_ Frau" vor der Tür stünde?! Der Text sagt auch, dass die Frau _hinter_ der Türe stehe, was aber im normalen Sprachgebrauch bedeutet, dass sich jemand _hinter der geöffneten_ Türe befindet. Das kann aber im vorliegenden Kontext wohl nicht gemeint sein ... Eine ziemlich konfuse Geschichte!!


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## Hutschi

Aus dem Kontext geht eventuell hervor, dass es "meine Frau" (my wife) ist und nicht eine Frau (a woman).

As dem Satz aber nicht.

Ist er an dieser Stelle korrekt zitiert?

---

Es kann aber auch richtig sein: Alena ist sicher nicht glücklich, wenn sich mitten in der Nacht eine andere Frau meldet.

Drei Uhr ist zwar hier als "morgens" bezeichnet, liegt aber in der Nacht (fast das ganze Jahr über im dunklen Bereich). Für mich läge drei Uhr mitten in der Tiefschlafphase.


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## newg

ABBA Stanza said:


> As I said, it's in the title of this thread (*"Morgens gegen drei steht eine Frau hinter der Tür... (tense)"*), and newg also included it in his original french translation (_"Ce matin vers 3 heures, ..."_). So I assumed that he had accidentally omitted it from the original German sentence.
> 
> Cheers,
> Abba



What did I omit in the French sentence? 

_morgens_ = ce matin
_gegen drei_ = vers trois heures

When I said I hadn't made any mistake in the French one I was talking about the elements of the sentence... My translation was obviouly to improve! 

Thanks for your answers! 

Last question: does "gerade" have the meaning of "eben" in this sentence?


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## berndf

newg said:


> What did I omit in the French sentence?
> 
> _morgens_ = ce matin
> _gegen drei_ = vers trois heures


Not in French, in German. You omitted "gegen drei" in your original question. You only wrote "Morgens steht...".


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## ABBA Stanza

newg said:


> What did I omit in the French sentence?


Hi , I was talking about the original German sentence in your first post:



newg said:


> "Morgens steht eine Frau hinter der Tür und ruft meinen Namen, und gerade diese Nacht ist bei mir"


There's no "gegen drei Uhr" mentioned here.

By the way, please don't take it personally! 

All the best,
Abba

Edit: Bernd beat me to it, so I may delete this post after newg has had a chance to read it.


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## Hutschi

newg said:


> What did I omit in the French sentence?
> 
> _morgens_ = ce matin
> _gegen drei_ = vers trois heures
> 
> When I said I hadn't made any mistake in the French one I was talking about the elements of the sentence... My translation was obviouly to improve!
> 
> Thanks for your answers!
> 
> Last question: does "gerade" have the meaning of "eben" in this sentence?



Yes, but neither "gerade" nor "eben" have the standard meaning here: they mean "especially" here in the given context - genau in dieser Nacht. It does not mean the time as in "Gerade habe ich gefrühstückt" = "I'm just ready with breakfast."


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## newg

Ok I see... 
_Gerade_ is one of those words I have big trouble understanding... 

Thanks again for your contribution!


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## Hutschi

newg said:


> Ok I see...
> _Gerade_ is one of those words I have big trouble understanding...
> 
> Thanks again for your contribution!



It strongly depends on context and there is a long list of meanings in the dictionary.


und *gerade diese Nacht* ist Alena bei mir  - genau in dieser Nacht, ausgerechnet in dieser Nacht - "gerade" is related to "diese Nacht"

und *gerade  ist Alena bei mir* - "at this moment Alena is here" - here it defines being at the same time. it is related to "bei mir sein".


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## newg

Ich versteh jetzt den Unterschied in meinem Satz!!!!!!! Endlich! 

That's clear now... I thought gerade was alone and meant (at this moment)... Since my Facebook is in German, and since I have to say "was ich *gerade* mache" my mind is totally focused on this meaning  

Thanks for pointing out the difference like that (though everyone tried to do it as well) because it's now perfectly clear.


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