# scritte a bomboletta



## antoit

Ciao,
Volevo chiedervi un aiuto nella traduzione di "scritte a bomboletta" in inglese. Mi riferisco ad esempio a questa situazione qui: Due minorenni denunciati per le scritte a bomboletta nel parco dove qualcuno, con una bomboletta ha scritto qualcosa di comprensibile, e con nessuna finalità artistica, in un muro. Non si tratta di graffiti, pero' credo che neppure un semplice "writing" vada bene. Ecco l'esatta frase che vorrei tradurre: "Il primo segno di degrado è da ricercarsi nella presenza di una scritta a bomboletta nella muretta di cemento delimitante la struttura". Una possibile traduzione: "The foremost sign of degradation is found on the presence of a writing made with a spray can on the concrete wall delimitating the structure".
Grazie per l'aiuto.


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## EdenMartin

> Volevo chiedervi un aiuto nella traduzione di "scritte a bomboletta" in inglese


Io direi_ spray-painted writing._


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## rrose17

Taking some of the above (although to be honest I have no idea what delimitante/delimiting means)
_Spray-painted writing, delimiting the concrete wall, is the first sign of decay. _
Degradation sounds very strong here, not sure if it fits.


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## Benzene

_Suggerisco: "the first sign of* deterioration*."

Bye,
*Benzene*_


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## ohbice

rrose17 said:


> (although to be honest I have no idea what delimitante/delimiting means).


Muretta = muretto, little wall. 
Delimitante = che delimita, enclosure.


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## rrose17

So the wall encloses part of the structure! 
So maybe then
_Spray-painted writing on the small concrete wall that encloses the structure is the first sign of decay/deterioration._


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## ohbice

The problem is "la struttura": it may be a park, with a low wall all around to delimit it; or a swimming pool, with open spaces and the little wall "we all know" (cit.) to fence it; or a school, with plants an gardens and the same old little wall...


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## Benzene

_Tradurrei "la struttura" con un generico "the building(s)." Personalmente userei il vocabolo al plurare "the buildings."

Bye,
*Benzene*_


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## metazoan

The first sign of decline is spray paint on the surrounding wall.


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## merse0

metazoan said:


> The first sign of decline is spray paint on the surrounding wall.


Mi pare un'ottima traduzione, alla quale però manca la differenza fra "graffiti" e "scritte a bomboletta".

Potrebbe andare?
The first sign of decline is spray paint written on the surrounding wall.


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## antoit

Grazie a tutti per il vostro contributo!
Deduco che possibili traduzioni sono: "spray paint" e "spray-painted writing". Volevo chiedere se esiste anche il plurale, se nei pressi ce ne fossero piu' di una (dunque, spray paints e spray-plainted writings).
In merito all'altra questione sollevata nelle risposte: con "struttura" in "muretta di cemento delimitante la struttura" intendo un insieme molto vasto di elementi, come chiese, caserme militari, musei, case. Guardate questa foto qui ad esempio Muretta .
Grazie.


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## Starless74

antoit said:


> muretta di cemento delimitante la struttura


Premises/property boundary wall, perhaps?


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## ohbice

Starless74 said:


> Premises/property boundary wall, perhaps?


Sì ma è una muretta...


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## Mary49

ohbice said:


> Sì ma è una muretta...


Che differenza c'è tra muretto e muretta?


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## ohbice

Nessuna, volevo solo mettere in rilievo la differenza tra muro (il wall di Starless) e muretta (o muretto che dir si voglia).


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## Benzene

_Una differenza fra "muretto" e "muretta" esiste; quindi i due termini non sono intercambiabili.
E' un vocabolo abbastanza recente, usato dagli addetti ai lavori nel settore dell'edilizia prefabbricata

Nell'edilizia del prefabbricato, una "muretta" è un modulo prefabbricato in calcestruzzo che è un componente di un sistema di recinzione.  Un "muretto di recinzione", nell'edilizia tradizionale,  abitualmente, è costruito con mattoni  pieni o forati oppure con mattoni in calcestruzzo aerato autoclavato e successivamente intonacati.
In generale una "muretta" non è intonacata ed è lasciata con la finitura di fabbrica a vista.
"Muretta" = "muro di recinzione modulare" = "modular fence/fencing wall" o con un significato più ampio "modular wall systems and fencing."

E' il termine "modulare" che differenzia la "muretta" dal "muretto."

Pensate a "canale" e a "canaletta", lo scopo e l'utilizzo sono gli stessi, cambiano in questo caso solo le loro dimensioni.

Bye,
*Benzene*_


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## Einstein

"Spray-paint writings"? Participle not essential.


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## EdenMartin

> "Spray-paint writings"? Participle not essential.


Participle? Which one?




> "Spray-paint writing*s*"?



Writings​(ˈraɪtɪŋz)
_pl n_
*1. * (Judaism) *the Writings * another  term  for  the Hagiographa
*2. * (Bible) *the Writings * another  term  for  the Hagiographa


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## Einstein

The unnecessary participle was "painted" in previous posts.


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## rrose17

Einstein said:


> "Spray-paint writings"?


Would you really have writing in the plural here? It sounds very odd to me.


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## Einstein

No, you're probably right; "writings" means "scritti" more than "scritte". What about "scrawlings"?


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## rrose17

Maybe _scribbling_ is better. But I’d still keep it in the singular.


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## theartichoke

I'm coming late to this, but I'm not sure why the OP discounted "graffiti": in English (though maybe not in Italian?), the word can apply perfectly well to a case where "qualcuno, con una bomboletta ha scritto qualcosa di comprensibile, e con nessuna finalità artistica, in un muro." "Graffiti" is a catch-all term for any unauthorized, deliberate markings on walls or other structures, from an incomprehensible "tag" on the side of a train, to an unauthorized mural, to someone spray-painting "you suck" on my back fence.

_Graffiti spray-painted on the enclosing wall is the first sign of deterioration._


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

theartichoke said:


> I'm coming late to this, but I'm not sure why the OP discounted "graffiti": in English (though maybe not in Italian?), the word can apply perfectly well to a case where "qualcuno, con una bomboletta ha scritto qualcosa di comprensibile, e con nessuna finalità artistica, in un muro." "Graffiti" is a catch-all term for any unauthorized, deliberate markings on walls or other structures, from an incomprehensible "tag" on the side of a train, to an unauthorized mural, to someone spray-painting "you suck" on my back fence.
> 
> _Graffiti spray-painted on the enclosing wall is the first sign of deterioration._



In English, I think we follow Italian and say "Graffitti.. are..."


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## Odysseus54

Isn't it uncountable, like 'spaghetti'?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

Well, I'd say "There was were graffiti everywhere." Just my take on it.


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## HalfTaff

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> Well, I'd say "There was were graffiti everywhere." Just my take on it.


My Google search showed "was" to be over twice as common as "were" in "There was/were graffiti", although I would prefer "were". However, the popular answer to Odysseus54's question is "Yes".


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

HalfTaff said:


> My Google search showed "was" to be over twice as common as "were" in "There was/were graffiti", although I would prefer "were". However, the popular answer to Odysseus54's question is "Yes".



_Vox populi_, then, I guess...


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## HalfTaff

Esatto.


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## Mary49

"there was graffiti" - Google Search




"there were graffiti" - Google Search


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## antoit

Grazie a tutti per il vostro intervento. Almeno io, nel mio contesto, utilizzo "graffiti" solo se devo definire delle scritte artistiche (o che pretendono di esserlo). Capisco invece che in inglese lo stesso termine si usa con un significato più ampio.


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## HalfTaff

Oddly, I got Mary49's results using Firefox, but with Chrome I got 157,000 hits for "was", and 14,300 for "were".


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## Mary49

Using Chrome:
173 results for "there was graffiti"
193 results for "there were graffiti".


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## TrentinaNE

In AE, I've always used graffiti as a mass noun, like crowd.  Per Merriam-Webster:


> _Graffiti_, which also serves as the plural of _graffito_, is commonly used as a singular mass noun.  _graffiti_ … was depressing people who rode the subways  — _New Yorker_ _graffiti_ comes in various styles  — S. K. Oberbeck This use is well established although not yet as well established as the mass-noun use of _data._ Use of _graffiti_ as a singular count noun is still quite rare and is not standard.


Although as an economist, I always treat _data _as plural. 

Having read through the thread, I think rendering _scritte a bomboletta_ as *graffiti* is sufficient and natural.  It's almost always spray-painted on walls so it's not necessary to add that qualifier.


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## MR1492

TrentinaNE said:


> Having read through the thread, I think rendering _scritte a bomboletta_ as *graffiti* is sufficient and natural.  It's almost always spray-painted on walls so it's not necessary to add that qualifier.



Agree. I also think the article is describing how the graffiti shows the "decline" of the neighborhood. It's not just the physical conditions but the cultural changes and we often use the term "decline" to describe that condition.

Phil


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## Pietruzzo

TrentinaNE said:


> Having read through the thread, I think rendering _scritte a bomboletta_ as *graffiti*


Actually the original phrase was "una scritta a bomboletta". So, what would you say? "A graffiti", "a piece of graffiti"...?


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## ain'ttranslationfun?

"A graffito"? Or is that pretentious?


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## Paulfromitaly

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> "A graffito"? Or is that pretentious?


Well, you don't use it in the "singular" form in English, do you?


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## Pietruzzo

Paulfromitaly said:


> Well, you don't use it in the "singular" form in English, do you?


Nor in Italian , at least not with the same meaning of "graffiti" in English. In Italian  "Un graffito" is either an engraving on a surface or a piece of prehistoric art.


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## giovannino

According to the Random House Dictionary “the singular ‘graffito’ is found mostly in archaeological and other technical writing”. So it’s the same as in Italian.


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## theartichoke

Pietruzzo said:


> Actually the original phrase was "una scritta a bomboletta". So, what would you say? "A graffiti", "a piece of graffiti"...?



"A piece of graffiti" is fine, but just plain "graffiti" also works for _una scritta_. "Graffiti was spray-painted on the wall" could refer to a single _scritta _or a dozen of them. Unlike "a biscotti" , we don't, mercifully, say "a graffiti."


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## TrentinaNE

Pietruzzo said:


> Actually the original phrase was "una scritta a bomboletta". So, what would you say? "A graffiti", "a piece of graffiti"...?


I addressed this in the part of my post that you did not quote. 😉


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## elroy

ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> In English, I think we follow Italian and say "Graffitti.. are..."





ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> Well, I'd say "There was were graffiti everywhere." Just my take on it.





ain'ttranslationfun? said:


> "A graffito"? Or is that pretentious?


I think this is Ain’tt English.


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