# I determined to read the book until I had reached the last w



## Lamb67

I determined to read the book until I had reached the last word.

_Liberum legere dum verbum ultimum advenissem constitui._


Dum means until, and may be followed by the Subjunctive, if purpose is implied.

Welcome your suggestions please,thanks.


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## Starfrown

Lamb67 said:


> I determined to read the book until I had reached the last word.
> 
> _Librum legere dum verbum ultimum advenirem constitui._
> 
> 
> Dum means until, and may be followed by the Subjunctive, if purpose is implied.
> 
> Welcome your suggestions please,thanks.


In English, if the main verb is past tense, the verb in the "until" clause may be either in the simple past or in the pluperfect. Thus, one could write:

"I determined to read the book until I had reached the last word."

or:

"I determined to read the book until I reached the last word."

The difference is not terribly great, and it is difficult to explain--at least for me--why we might choose one over the other in a specific situation. In both cases, it is understood that the action in the "until" clause takes place after the action in the main clause--that is, it is presented as an action not yet completed (i.e. an "non-real" action). Now consider the following:

"I waited until he came/had come."

In this case, it is very clear that the action in the "until" clause has indeed come to pass (i.e. a "real" action).

In Latin, I don't think the rules for the sequence of tenses allow you to use pluperfect subjunctives in _dum_ clauses presenting non-real actions with a main verb in the past tense. I may be wrong, and I hope someone will correct me if I am, but I think you must use the imperfect subjunctive in Latin when it is understood that the action in the _dum_ clause may or may not have taken place after the action in the main clause.

(Note: I did not examine your choice of words. I only evaluated the grammar.)


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## XiaoRoel

> _dum in postremum verbum advenissem, librum lectum esse non constitui._


El_ dum _con sentido temporal 'hasta que' precede a la oración principal_. Constitui _pide_ aduenissem_ en la subordinada. No sería ésta la construcción elegida por mí para expresar este mensaje, pero la elección fue tuya.


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## Starfrown

XiaoRoel said:


> _dum in postremum verbum advenissem, librum lectum esse non constitui._
> 
> El_ dum _con sentido temporal 'hasta que' precede a la oración principal_. Constitui _pide_ aduenissem_ en la subordinada. No sería ésta la construcción elegida por mí para expresar este mensaje, pero la elección fue tuya.


Does your sentence read:

"I did not determine the book to have been read until I had reached the last word."

?

Did "I" reach the last word?

Also, could you provide an example of _dum_ ("until") with a pluperfect subjunctive from a Roman author? I haven't been able to find one, though I have found numerous examples with the imperfect subjunctive.


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## XiaoRoel

Ejemplos clásicos no encuentro (no tengo mi biblioteca a mano) pero medievales muchos: la antífona dum uenisset, el Codex Calixtinus, etc.
Seguiré investigando.
Un saludo.


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## Lamb67

_Librum legere dum verbum ultimum advenirem constitui._

I determined to read the book until I could reach the last word. 

Is this an acceptable English translation? The English translation of Latin imperfect subjunctive verbs in dum clauses are all typically given as should/could+verb to imply a purpose in my book.

How do you translate 'I waited until he came/had come',which is real action?

My try: Expectavi dum venit/venerat.

How do you tranlsate_ Librum legere dum verbum ultimum adveneram_(pluperfect indicative.)?


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## Starfrown

Lamb67 said:


> _Librum legere dum verbum ultimum advenirem constitui._
> 
> I determined to read the book until I could reach the last word.
> 
> Is this an acceptable English translation? The English translation of Latin imperfect subjunctive verbs in dum clauses are all typically given as should/could+verb to imply a purpose in my book.


I believe it is unadvisable, as "could reach" means something different from "reached/should have reached."  I would have to see the examples from your book to comment further.  (If you wish to post them, it would probably be best for you to open a new thread to specifically address this question.)


Lamb67 said:


> How do you translate 'I waited until he came/had come',which is real action?
> 
> My try: Expectavi dum venit/venerat.


I think _dum, donec, _and_ quoad_ all take the perfect indicative to indicate real action in the past.



Lamb67 said:


> How do you tranlsate_ Librum legere dum verbum ultimum adveneram_(pluperfect indicative.)?


"...until I had reached the last word...", but I wouldn't expect this from a classical author based on what I've read.


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