# употребительный или употребляемый



## mirla

Добрый день!
Я пишу пост про самые употребительные английские выражения.
Но мне тут подсказывают, что лучше сказать "употребляемые".
Что вы думаете?


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## LilianaB

It has to be _употребляемые. _The other word has a different meaning and use.


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## Sobakus

Употребительные - которые полезно знать и употреблять.
Употребляемые - которые люди употребляют.

Я бы выбрал первое.


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## mirla

Прямо даже не понимаю, почему же мне кажется, что "употребительный" тут больше подходит...


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## Sobakus

mirla said:


> Прямо даже не понимаю, почему же мне кажется, что "употребительный" тут больше подходит...



Потому что это устойчивое словосочетание. Другое слово обычно используется в словосочетании "часто употребляемый".


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## mirla

То есть Вы все-таки за "употребительный"?


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## Sobakus

mirla said:


> То есть Вы все-таки за "употребительный"?



Я и был за него.


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## LilianaB

Can you provide more context, Mirla, and one or two sentences surrounding the sentence where you want to use the phrase. That would help.


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## Maroseika

Только "употребительные". 
И даже не потому, что это устойчивое выражение, а потому, что "самый" образует превосходную степень качественного прилагательного "употребительный". А у причастий, к которым относится слово "употребляемый", степеней сравнения вообще нет, так что "самый" тут ни к селу ни к  городу.
Конечно, встречаются конструкции типа "самый продаваемый", но в таких устойчивых выражениях причастие практически перешло в категорию прилагательных. А в данном случае никакой устойчивости нет, это разовая попытка употребить причастие в качестве прилагательного. И выходит грамматическая несообразица.


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## mirla

Контекст: "20 самых употребительный английских идиом" - это название поста в моем блоге. 
Маросейка, как Вы замечательно всё объяснили! Спасибо большое!


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## LilianaB

If you mean _handy_, kind of, _that may be more useful than other idioms_, then I agree with everybody else here, not_ idioms that are more often used by English speakers.  


_


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## Maroseika

LilianaB said:


> If you mean _handy_, kind of, _that may be more useful than other idioms_, then I agree with everybody else here, not_ idioms that are more often used by English speakers.  _


Самые употребляемые is gramatically wrong no matter what exactly it means. And whatsoever the author meant, I would understand the phrase exactly like that: idioms that are more often used by English speakers.


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## Imaginary

I agree that 'употребительные' is the correct variant. You can also say 'широко употребляемые' instead of 'самые употребительные'.


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## LilianaB

I don't want to argue, but I think you can say _cамые употребляемые_ in certain contexts, depending what is meant. The idioms that are more often used than other idioms, wouldn't you agree?


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## Imaginary

LilianaB said:


> I don't want argue, but I think you can say _cамые употребляемые_ in certain contexts, depending what is meant. The idioms that are more often used than other idioms, wouldn't you agree?


'Самые' is a part of the superlative degree of adjectives. This word mustn't stand near participles. However, in spoken Russian the construction 'Самые употребляемые' is widely used. But it isn't correct.


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## LilianaB

People often use superlatives with participles in spoken Russian. Do you think that superlative use of participles is not to be found in literature? I did not pay that much attention to it. Is употребительные only an adjective, or some form of  a participle as well?


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## Imaginary

LilianaB said:


> People often use superlatives with participles in spoken Russian. Do you think that superlative use of participles is not to be found in literature? I did not pay that much attention to it. Is употребительные only an adjective, or some form of  a participle as well?


I suppose 'употребительные' is only an adjective in Russian. Surely, 'употребляемые' sounds better, but it isn't _grammatically_ correct, in my opinion.


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## Maroseika

LilianaB said:


> Is употребительные only an adjective, or some form of  a participle as well?


You are kidding? Do you know any participle on -ельный in Russian?


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## LilianaB

I don't know Maroseika. I am not an expert on Russian grammar. I speak very decent Russian and I had grammar classes for a few years in school, but I would always think that adjective-like words which come from verbs would be some kind of a participle, even if their function is adjectival. There are so many participles in Lithuanian, that you could take some of the Russian adjectives for participles. Why would they be adjectives though, if they come from verbs?


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## Maroseika

LilianaB said:


> There are so many participles in Lithuanian, that you could take some of the Russian adjectives for participles. Why would they be adjectives though, if they come from verbs?



Verbal nouns and verbal adjectives are not verbs, but nouns and adjectives, just motivated by verbs (употребление, употребительный are motivated by употреблять). But participle is the verbal form. 
Употребляющий, употребляемый, употребленный are verbal forms, because they have such verbal categories as tense, aspect and voice, describing the action by means of special flections. But употребительный, being an adjective, has none of them - neither features, nor flections.
Some participles in Russian can turn into adjectives losing their verbal features (but not flections!), but never vice verca - just because adjectives cannot obtain any verbal feature due to the lack of morphological means.


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## LilianaB

Thank you, Maroseika. I think in Baltic languages, such adjectives are also classified as participles, this is why I got confused.


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