# Time conventions in Europe



## Lyberty

Hello, 

Chicago Manual of Style (a guide for editors) says that in Europe the time is written like this: *1430* (vs the USA convention, where it is written *2:30 p.m.).* No colon. 

It seems weird to me, since in Israel, for example, it's written *14:30*. With a colon. 

Can you say how you write the time in your European countries?

Thanks, liz


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## sakvaka

In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30. 

1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.

EDIT: You can also write the minutes in superscript: 14:32 becomes 14³². In this case the colon is left out.


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## federicoft

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.
> 
> 1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.



The same in Italy.


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## rusita preciosa

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.
> 
> 1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.
> 
> EDIT: You can also write the minutes in superscript: 14:32 becomes 14³². In this case the colon is left out.


Same in Russian. I've never seen 1430, not even sure if it is used in the army


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## chics

rusita preciosa said:


> I've never seen 1430, not even sure if it is used in the army


Same in Spain. 

Here the official way to write it it's 14:30, but you can also see 14h30 quite often and, less usual, 14h30' (even 14h30'00''), where "h" means "hour" and " ' " is "minutes".


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## Plzenak

I have never seen 1430 or 14.30. in the Czech republic , the most used and probably the only correct way of writing it here(in Czech rep.) is *14:30* .


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## chamyto

chics said:


> Same in Spain.
> 
> Here the official way to write it it's 14:30, but you can also see 14h30 quite often and, less usual, 14h30' (even 14h30'00''), where "h" means "hour" and " ' " is "minutes".


 
I disagree.
'00"  would be seconds , no minutes


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## federicoft

30' means 30 minutes, 30'' means 30 seconds.


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## xmarabout

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.
> 
> 1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.


 
Same in *Belgium* and *France*
Very common also in the *French* speaking countries: 14h30 (_h_ for _heure_/hour) or In *Dutch* speaking countries (North of Belgium and the Netherlands): 14u30 (_u_ for _uur_/hour)

I think in England you also have 2:30PM (Post Meridiem / After Noon)


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## Lyberty

Thank you, everybody. 

My suspicion is confirmed, then. This is the first inaccuracy that I see in the Chicago Manual of Style. 

Liz


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## SDLX Master

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.
> 
> 1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.
> 
> EDIT: You can also write the minutes in superscript: 14:32 becomes 14³². In this case the colon is left out.


 
I totally concur. 
Number "0" is read both ways, "zero" and "oh", so 0800 would be zero/oh eight hundred hours, and 1430 would be fourteen thirty hours.


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## Outsider

We use both *14:32* and *2:32*. In the latter case we add whether morning or afternoon/night is meant when it's not clear from context. We do not, however, use the abbreviations "a.m." and "p.m.", although we're familiar with them from the displays of clocks made abroad. 

I've never seen *1432* be used. I thought that was the American military style of telling time!


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## xmarabout

1432 exists but it is definitively military. Most of the NATO armies use it as well as the one of Eastern Europe (Poland, Russia, etc.)


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## chics

chamyto said:


> Here the official way to write it it's 14:30, but you can also see 14h30 quite often and, less usual, 14h30' (even 14h30'00''), where "h" means "hour" and " ' " is "minutes".
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree.
> '00" would be seconds , no minutes
Click to expand...

I think,you didn't read it properli:
' : minutes
'': seconds
here, in 14h 30' 00'', it means 14 hour ("h" or *h*), 30 minutes (" ' " or *'*)  and 00 seonds ( " '' " or *''*). Not a good idea, the commas, I agree...


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## Stoggler

xmarabout said:


> I think in England Britain and Ireland you also have 2:30PM (Post Meridiem / After Noon)


 
Indeed we do - as a rule we only use the 24 hour clock in (bus/train/tram) timetables and in the military. Most day-to-day transactions are done using the 12-hour clock (and that includes _most_ TV channel schedules). If you're arranging a meeting with a colleague, the context will tell you if it's a.m. or p.m. - it's obvious that a meeting scheduled for 11 is in the morning and not the evening, likewise for a meeting at 4, it's clearly 4p.m.

That said, some people might write the time using the 24 hour clock, and if they do it would be as in other European countries (i.e. 16:25 or 16.25).


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## sudexpress

chamyto said:


> I disagree.
> '00"  would be seconds , no minutes



Even if the official way to write time is 14:30, people will write oftenly 2:30...In Spain the 12 hour clock is more usual than the 24 hour one.

In France people meet at "fourteen thirty" (quatorze heures trente)...that would never happen in Spain. We'd surely meet "a las dos y media". 

 Sudex


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## Porteño

Stoggler said:


> Indeed we do - as a rule we only use the 24 hour clock in (bus/train/tram) timetables and in the military. QUOTE]
> 
> And the times are written military style with no punctuation - 1430.


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## wildan1

Lyberty said:


> Thank you, everybody.
> 
> My suspicion is confirmed, then. This is the first inaccuracy that I see in the Chicago Manual of Style.


 
In the context in which it is written (U.S. usage), I would not say the guidance is inaccurate. The ONLY official use of the 24-hour clock inside the U.S. is military. 

Unless they have been in the military or lived overseas, most people here do not understand a time expressed as say, _16:00_, and to invite them to an event using that time would no doubt lead to a number of people not being sure what the intended time was, and/or possibly coming at 6:00 PM!

PS The US convention for punctuation says that _a.m./p.m._ take periods but when capitalized, not: _AM/PM_.


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## Grefsen

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.


I just spent the better part of the past two months in Norway and noticed that the timetables for the streetcars, subways, and buses in the Oslo area were using the 14.30 convention, but the timetables for the Norwegian State Railway (NSB) were using the 14:30 convention.  

While I was in Oslo I noticed that most of the movie theaters were using the 14:30 convention, but I don't recall seeing the 1430 convention ever used during the time I was in Norway.



wildan1 said:


> PS The US convention for punctuation says that _a.m./p.m._ take periods but when capitalized, not: _AM/PM_.


Thanks for mentioning this.  Now that I'm finally over my jetlag I'll try to make sure that I am consistent with the time convention I use here in the US.


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## a little edgy

> The ONLY official use of the 24-hour clock inside the U.S. is military.


Perhaps it would be more accurate to say military and military-influenced settings. For example, in meteorology the 24-hour clock is used for professional and internal communication. When weather forecasts and discussions are translated into lay language for the public, the time is converted to the 12-hour clock. Similarly, in aviation, the 24-hour clock is used for technical communication. Basically, in any situation that calls for precise timing, especially across multiple time zones, the 24-hour clock will tend to be used by professionals and then converted to 12-hour time for the public. It is analogous to the use of the metric system, which is nearly universal in technical and scientific applications but virtually unknown to the public. (And people who work in these technical fields almost never use the 24-hour clock or metric measurements in non-technical settings.)


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## wildan1

a little edgy said:


> Perhaps it would be more accurate to say military and military-influenced settings.


I don't disagree--but the point is that the average person in the US doesn't use and is often confused by the 24-hour time system. It would certainly never be used in an academic paper formatted by the Chicago style sheet, unless the publication were citing source documents.


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## Mishe

sudexpress said:


> Even if the official way to write time is 14:30, people will write oftenly 2:30...In Spain the 12 hour clock is more usual than the 24 hour one.
> 
> In France people meet at "fourteen thirty" (quatorze heures trente)...that would never happen in Spain. We'd surely meet "a las dos y media".
> 
> Sudex



Here in Slovenia (and as far as I know in all ex-Yugoslavia), we use 24-hour system. That means we'd write 14:30, but we'd say we'll meet at two thirty (or rather thirty until three). If I saw 02:30 I would automatically think of two thirty in the morning, but orally we use the same and we know from the context if it is am or pm.


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## Orlin

Mishe said:


> Here in Slovenia (and as far as I know in all ex-Yugoslavia), we use 24-hour system. That means we'd write 14:30, but we'd say we'll meet at two thirty (or rather thirty until three). If I saw 02:30 I would automatically think of two thirty in the morning, but orally we use the same and we know from the context if it is am or pm.


 
Generally the same in Bulgaria. Some people (including me) prefer using the 24-hour system in informal speech - I think that it is somewhat better to avoid ambiguity.


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## Lugubert

sakvaka said:


> In *Finland *(and I believe in other countries, too) the time is written either 14:30 or 14.30.
> 
> 1430 is used in military contexts ("The troops are attacking the target at 0800") and when writing quickly.
> 
> EDIT: You can also write the minutes in superscript: 14:32 becomes 14³². In this case the colon is left out.


Sweden rather officially favours 14.30. Foreign influence may account for some 14:30. 1430 is used in military contexts here as well. The superscript way would look strange.


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## koniecswiata

Where I live you can see all of the following, I don't know which would be the "official".  Probably no one is paying such attention to detail

14.30, 14:30, 14h30,  14.30 hras, 14.30 pm, 2.30 pm, 2:30 pm

Maybe even more, and combinations of the above.


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## Grefsen

koniecswiata said:


> Where I live you can see all of the following, I don't know which would be the "official".


You don't have to state exactly where it is you live, but it would be helpful to the discussion if you could at least mention the general geographic region. 




koniecswiata said:


> 14.30, 14:30, 14h30,  14.30 hras, 14.30 pm, 2.30 pm, 2:30 pm
> 
> Maybe even more, and combinations of the above.


I realize that the topic is "Time conventions in Europe," but for purpose of comparison I thought I would mention that here in Southern California the only variations I usually see are 2:30 p.m., 2:30 pm, or 2:30 PM.


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## Lilla My

I think I saw "1430" written a few time when I was in Norway, but maybe a native could confirm...


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