# FR: pour (que)



## TMiguelT

I've noticed that there are a few expressions for which you can use 'que' at the end, making the next verb subjunctive, but this seems optional.

For example:
 pour que vs pour
sans que vs sans
avant que vs avant

Is there any difference in meaning with the added que or just down to the person?


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## Oddmania

These phrases require _que _when the subject of the next clause is different (from the subject of the first clause) 

_Il a mangé avant de partir → He ate before leaving _(he is the one who ate, and the one who left)._
Il a mangé avant qu'ils (ne) partent → *He *ate before *they *left _(two different subjects).

You cannot use these expressions with _que + subjunctive_ if the subject stays the same all along (whereas you can in English. _He ate before he left_ is perfectly correct).


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## Maître Capello

More precisely, if you need to use a subordinate clause (which has a subject of its own), you must use _que_. If you need an infinitive clause or a noun phrase, don't use any _que_.

_Je vous invite *pour que* nous puissions nous voir._
_Je vous invite *pour *vous voir.
__Je vous invite *pour *le plaisir de vous voir._


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## TMiguelT

Thanks. Very helpful  
In your English example '_He ate before he left_' isn't the subject the same in both clauses?


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## Oddmania

Yes, maybe I've put it badly. I meant that _He ate before he left_ is perfectly correct in English. You don't necessarily have to say _He ate before leaving._ In French, you don't a choice. If the subject is the same, then only _avant de partir_ is correct.

_Il a mangé avant qu'il (ne) parte_ would imply there are two different men (and thus two different subjects).


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## Maître Capello

Oddmania said:


> In French, you don't a choice. If the subject is the same, then only _avant de partir_ is correct.


 No, although it isn't as common as the infinitive clause, you *can* repeat the subject in French too:

_*Avant que* je ne parte, je voulais vous revoir une dernière fois._ 
_*Avant* de partir, je voulais vous revoir une dernière fois. _


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## Oddmania

It sounds very redundant and clumsy to me. You're certainly more proficient than I am in grammar so I do believe it's correct, but I'll never use this in speech. It's like saying _J'ai peur que je perde_, or _J'ai envie que je dorme._


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## k145

Hello,

I'm doing an exercise that requires me to complete sentences by filling in a blank with 4 options:
1. pour
2. pour que
3. afin que
4. afin de

Ok so first I know how to use pour as it is the exact same thing in english except we use "to" most of the time. I then asked about "afin" and was told that it means the exact same thing. Got it.

But now I'm confused as to what "pour que" and "afin que" mean. They are used in the subjunctive right? So for example: I suggest that you come with me. 

Would I be able to substitute "you" with "pour que" and "afin que?"


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## geostan

Both pour que and afin que mean in order that. There is no substitution possible. You would be substituting a pronoun with a conjunction.


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## k145

Im sorry I meant to subtitute "that" not "you"


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## Maître Capello

_pour_ + infinitif = _afin de_ + infinitif → to, in order to
_pour que_ + subjonctif = _afin que_ + subjonctif → so that

I eat less *(in order) to* lose weight. ↔ _Je mange moins *pour* perdre du poids._
He left a note *so (that)* I don't forget to buy food. ↔ _Il m'a laissé un mot *pour que* je n'oublie pas d'acheter de la nourriture._

So, no, you may not replace "that" with _pour/afin que_.


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## Maître Capello

_pour_ + infinitif = _afin de_ + infinitif → to, in order to
_pour que_ + subjonctif = _afin que_ + subjonctif → so that, in order that

I eat less *(in order) to* lose weight. ↔ _Je mange moins *pour* perdre du poids._
He left a note *so (that)* I don't forget to buy food. ↔ _Il m'a laissé un mot *pour que* je n'oublie pas d'acheter de la nourriture._

So, no, you may not replace "that" with _pour/afin que_.

I suggest *that* you come. ↔ _Je suggère *que* tu viennes_.

Regarding, _pour_ vs. _afin de_, see also pour que / afin que - pour / afin de.


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## k145

I have another question that is a bit unrelated. According to your example: He left a note *so (that)* I don't forget to buy food. though the second clause uses a verb in the subjunctive, is the sentence subjunctive? I am also learning the subjunctive in French right now so that might be contributing to the confusion.


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## jann

In the sentence _Il m'a laissé un mot *pour que* je n'oublie pas d'acheter de la nourriture_, the verb _laisser_ is conjugated in the passé composé tense of the indicative mood and the verb _oublier_ is conjugated in the present tense of the subjunctive mood.

You ask if this sentence "is subjunctive."  I don't think that's a meaningful way to describe things.  It doesn't really make sense to say that an entire sentence "is" subjunctive:  a *verb* may be conjugated in the subjunctive mood, but "subjunctive" doesn't describe any of the other words present in the sentence.

Does that help?


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