# Er mag die Schule nicht gern vs. Er mag die Schule nicht



## Anne Frank

What is the difference between «Er mag die Schule nicht gern» and «Er mag die Schule nicht»? Can one consider it’s to be «He doesn’t like the school» and «He doesn’t like the school very much»? Or there's just no difference between the two and it's all about emphasizing?


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## Thersites

Anne Frank said:


> Or there's just no difference between the two and it's all about emphasizing?


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## Anne Frank

Thomas(CH) said:


>


So, the translation would be just «he didn't like the school»? For both?


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## JClaudeK

Anne Frank said:


> So, the translation would be just «he didn't doesn't  like the school»? For both?



But it could also mean "He doesn't like attending school."


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## Anne Frank

JClaudeK said:


> But it could also mean "He doesn't like attending school."


So what does the gern stands for? If both mean just the same, what it sopposed to emphasize here?


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## manfy

Anne Frank said:


> So what does the gern stands for? If both mean just the same, what it sopposed to emphasize here?


I for one think that 'etwas gern mögen" is a colloquialism. You may also look at 'gern' as a grading particle that modifies 'mögen'.

Actually, 'mögen' all by itself means 'gern haben'.
So, if you expand "ich mag das gern" you get "ich hab das gern gern" 
But I do admit that sometimes I may hear myself say "Ich *mag *das gern/sehr gern/nicht so gern/gar nicht gern/etc".
It has the same meaning as "Ich *hab'* das gern/sehr gern/nicht so gern/gar nicht gern/etc" and I think this form with 'haben' is better style and semantically sound.


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## Anne Frank

manfy said:


> I for one think that 'etwas gern mögen" is a colloquialism. You may also look at 'gern' as a grading particle that modifies 'mögen'.
> 
> Actually, 'mögen' all by itself means 'gern haben'.
> So, if you expand "ich mag das gern" you get "ich hab das gern gern"
> But I do admit that sometimes I may hear myself say "Ich *mag *das gern/sehr gern/nicht so gern/gar nicht gern/etc".
> It has the same meaning as "Ich *hab'* das gern/sehr gern/nicht so gern/gar nicht gern/etc" and I think this form with 'haben' is better style and semantically sound.


So I can either say ich mag + a noun or ich mag + a noun gern? Which one is more frequently used then?


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## Thersites

manfy said:


> I for one think that 'etwas gern mögen" is a colloquialism.


Yes, a slip from Standard German into Bavarian/Austrian/Swiss dialect.

In Swiss German there is no verb to say "I love you", you can only say _Ich habe Dich gern._ The verb _lieben_ pronounced in Swiss German has become common now but in the past was thought of as a _Germanismus_.


Anne Frank said:


> So I can either say ich mag + a noun or ich mag + a noun gern? Which one is more frequently used then?


I suggest you use the first, it is more proper Standard German.


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## Anne Frank

Thomas(CH) said:


> Yes, a slip from Standard German into Bavarian/Austrian/Swiss dialect.
> 
> In Swiss German there is no verb to say "I love you", you can only say _Ich habe Dich gern._ The verb _lieben_ pronounced in Swiss German has become common now but in the past was thought of as a _Germanismus_.
> 
> I suggest you use the first, it is more proper Standard German.


Swiss German has no the verb for LOVE???😮


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## Thersites

Anne Frank said:


> Swiss German has no the verb for LOVE???😮


Yes it does, _gern haben_ 😉


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## Anne Frank

Thomas(CH) said:


> Yes it does, _gern haben_ 😉


But that's more like an expression. Anyway, from that comes the «gern mögen» thing, right?


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## manfy

Thomas(CH) said:


> Yes it does, _gern haben_ 😉



 Yes, it's strange! I could not imagine to say "I love you" in dialect. "I liab di" just sounds too strange. In my dialect it's only "Ich mag dich/hab dich gern/hab dich lieb" and if you feel the need to say "ich liebe dich", you have to use standard German pronunciation not dialect.


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## Anne Frank

manfy said:


> Yes, it's strange! I could not imagine to say "I love you" in dialect. "I liab di" just sounds too strange. In my dialect it's only "Ich mag dich/hab dich gern/hab dich lieb" and if you feel the need to say "ich liebe dich", you have to use standard German pronunciation not dialect.


That's quite fascinating!


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## Thersites

manfy said:


> Yes, it's strange! I could not imagine to say "I love you" in dialect. "I liab di" just sounds too strange. In my dialect it's only "Ich mag dich/hab dich gern/hab dich lieb" and if you feel the need to say "ich liebe dich", you have to use standard German pronunciation not dialect.


Hier bürgert es sich scheinbar ein.


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## JClaudeK

Here, you'll find a lot of threads concerning this subject:
Search results for query: mögen gern haben


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## Limette

manfy said:


> I could not imagine to say "I love you" in dialect. "I liab di" just sounds too strange.



Really…? That surprises me!
In my dialect, „i lieb di“ is EXACTLY what we say to our romantic loved ones. „I hob di lieb“, by contrast, is used for family and friends.


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## manfy

Limette said:


> Really…? That surprises me!
> In my dialect, „i lieb di“ is EXACTLY what we say to our romantic loved ones. „I hob di lieb“, by contrast, is used for family and friends.


Well, I was thinking of pure, unadulterated dialect (Stoansteirisch) and in this dialect "I liab di" sounds decidedly odd. (When I was a child we still had some isolated pockets of pure dialect speakers.)
Of course, as you know, we have lots of other ways to say the same thing in dialect, the goto phrase in the east being "I steh auf di" and each phrase is expressing a different grade of love. 
And besides, also Hochdeutsch has been an inseperable part of regional standard language certainly since after WW2 and nobody would bat an eyelid if you mixed standard German phrases with dialect (although that's a bit tricky and I wouldn't recommend it to second language speakers!).


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## Thersites

manfy said:


> Well, I was thinking of pure, unadulterated dialect (Stoansteirisch) and in this dialect "I liab di" sounds decidedly odd.


Ich erinnere mich an einen berndeutschen Song im Radio, den ich leider auch mit googeln nicht wiederfinde, der genau davon handelte. Erst wurden in den Strophen die Liebeserklärungen der schönsten Fremdsprachen besungen, die stets das Wort _Liebe_ beinhalten, und im Refrain hiess es dann betreffend des Schweizer- bzw. Berndeutschen vernichtend: _Es geit eifach nid _("Es geht einfach nicht"). Wirklich witzig, aber wohl kein Kassenschlager, denn ich finde ihn wie gesagt nirgends mehr.


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## Kajjo

Anne Frank said:


> «Er mag die Schule nicht gern» and «Er mag die Schule nicht»?


The first sentence is absolutely weird and non-idiomatic in most context, the second refers to not liking a particular school , either as institution or the building.

Again, using "mögen" to non-food statements is difficult and quite often not natural. Idiomatic is:

_Er geht gerne zur Schule. Er geht nicht gerne zur Schule._

Very often you should prefer "gerne" constructions to express "I like / I don't like".


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## elroy

Oder "Ihm gefällt die Schule nicht", wenn es zum Beispiel um das Aussehen des Gebäudes geht.


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## Kajjo

elroy said:


> Oder "Ihm gefällt die Schule nicht"


Richtig, "gefallen" is quite versatile to express "to like", too.


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## Hutschi

Hi,
in my mind, there is following difference (parts of it is already mentioned by others.)

Er mag die Schule nicht.
This depends on context.

Er geht nicht gern zur Schule. He doesn't like school/learning in school/attending school/life in school.
Er geht nicht gern in diese Schule (if "die" is used as demonstrative pronoun and stressed.)
Er mag dieses Schulgebäude nicht. (similar to 2 but related to the building. Maybe it is old, new, defect or as Günther Jauch wrote "Notdurftarchitektur" (shit architecture) indicating he did not like the architecture of the special school in a pejorative form) In the last case it can mean in the inner meaning: He wants to replace this building. And indeed he was mighty enough to try such things in Potsdam.
Er mag die Schule nicht gern.
As Kajjo wrote it is only very seldom idiomatic (edit) in standard German. Avoid to use it.​It gives additional emotion. I heard similar sentences, they show either special regions or special emotions and it is difficult to explain.​
Note: "Die" often refers to a special school. In this case it is stressed.

To make it clear that you mean going to school in general, omit "die"
Er mag Schule nicht. - but this is also seldom.
The others wrote many much better alternative forms.


PS:
As you can see it depends very much on context. So you should avoid this form.

"Er geht nicht gern zur Schule." - this is clear, for example.


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## Hutschi

Add-on:

"Schule" has 4 main meanings.
Schule Duden:

Lehranstalt, in der Kindern und Jugendlichen durch planmäßigen Unterricht Wissen und Bildung vermittelt werden
...
Schulgebäude
...
in der Schule erteilter Unterricht
...
Ausbildung, durch die jemandes Fähigkeiten auf einem bestimmten Gebiet zu voller Entfaltung kommen, gekommen sind; Schulung
...
1. the institution
2. the building
3. the lessons
4. (basically - it is a raw translation) ongoing or received education


--- I basically answered for 1. and 2.

"Ich mag die Schule nicht" mostly refers to 3, it might also refer to the other meanings.
"Ich mag die Schule nicht gern" - refers mostly to 2. or 3. as far as I understand it; but it is seldom, at least where I live it is not used.


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## Anne Frank

Hutschi said:


> Add-on:
> 
> "Schule" has 4 main meanings.
> Schule Duden:
> 
> Lehranstalt, in der Kindern und Jugendlichen durch planmäßigen Unterricht Wissen und Bildung vermittelt werden
> ...
> Schulgebäude
> ...
> in der Schule erteilter Unterricht
> ...
> Ausbildung, durch die jemandes Fähigkeiten auf einem bestimmten Gebiet zu voller Entfaltung kommen, gekommen sind; Schulung
> ...
> 1. the institution
> 2. the building
> 3. the lessons
> 4. (basically - it is a raw translation) ongoing or received education
> 
> 
> --- I basically answered for 1. and 2.
> 
> "Ich mag die Schule nicht" mostly refers to 3, it might also refer to the other meanings.
> "Ich mag die Schule nicht gern" - refers mostly to 2. or 3. as far as I understand it; but it is seldom, at least where I live it is not used.


I think they both mean just he doesn't like His School generally: neither the institution, nor the lessons in there.


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## Hutschi

So you mean the building? ("His school")?
... or the sum of 1,2 and 3? (generalization of school)

Edit: I ask for "fine tuning" to your question in #1



Anne Frank said:


> His School


This implies: "Ich mag meine Schule nicht". If it is the building.

2. edit
PS:
школа - Wiktionary


> *шко́ла* • (škóla) f inan (_genitive_ *шко́лы*, _nominative plural_ *шко́лы*, _genitive plural_ *школ*, _related adjective_ *шко́льный*)
> 
> 
> school
> _музыка́льная *шко́ла*_ ― _muzykálʹnaja *škóla*_ ― music school
> schoolhouse
> academy
> university



Musikschule is a special school and does not fit.
Akademie and Universität do not fit in German.

So only the schoolhouse remains. Is this true in your context?


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## Anne Frank

Hutschi said:


> So you mean the building? ("His school")?
> ... or the sum of 1,2 and 3? (generalization of school)
> 
> Edit: I ask for "fine tuning" to your question in #1
> 
> 
> This implies: "Ich mag meine Schule nicht". If it is the building.
> 
> 2. edit
> PS:
> школа - Wiktionary
> 
> 
> Musikschule is a special school and does not fit.
> Akademie and Universität do not fit in German.
> 
> So only the schoolhouse remains. Is this true in your context?


I mean rather the sum of 1 and 3.


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## Hutschi

I see. Institution+ lessons.
In this case "Ich mag die Schule nicht" fits, indeed. It is loaded with emotional style in standard German.
"Ich mag die Schule nicht gern" does not fit in standard German, because it is not idiomatic. Note the discussion about it in former answers. Regionally it seems to be working.

"Ich mag meine Schule nicht" does not fit. It relates too much to the building.

"Ich mag Schule nicht" might fit.

Consider Kajjo #19:  _ Er geht nicht gerne zur Schule._

In my mind this fits best in this context in a neutral style.


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## bearded

Wie wär's mit ''Er liebt (die) Schule nicht'' / ''Er hat (die) Schule nicht gern''?
Sind solche Ausdrücke idiomatisch? 
Diesem Thread zufolge
to like - gern/gerne haben, lieben
 sollten die Ausdrücke idiomatisch sein - aber auch auf den Begriff ''Schule'' bezogen?


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