# rare bird (weird person)



## amikama

Hi, what is the equivalent expression in your language for "rare bird", i.e. a strange person that has some peculiarity or unusual behavior?


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## amikama

Hebrew:

*עוף מוזר* - lit. "strange bird"


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## pimlicodude

In Russian: белая ворона, byElaya vorOna (a white crow).


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## Abaye

Latin: rara avis.


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## Ghabi

Abaye said:


> Latin: rara avis.


It means "a strange person" in Latin?


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## Ghabi

Roxxxannne said:


> rara avis = 'rare bird


Is it used in Latin to mean a strange person or a rare thing or both?


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## סייבר־שד

In Mexican Spanish, at least, I don't think there's any avian-related label for such individuals, we prefer bugs, rather. 

*bicho raro *= "strange bug"


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## Roxxxannne

Ghabi said:


> Is it used in Latin to mean a strange person or a rare thing or both?


Sorry, I deleted my post between #5 and #6 as soon as I wrote because I thought I had misunderstood your question.  Now I understand it.
Literally, rara avis = rare bird.
Juvenal (Satire 6, line 165) uses it to mean a rare kind of person: an ideal person and therefore a rare thing.  
I don't know whether it was ever used in Latin to mean a strange (in the sense of odd) person.


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## Penyafort

Ghabi said:


> Is it used in Latin to mean a strange person or a rare thing or both?



I'd say it's European languages which use the Latinism _rara avis _more than Latin writers did.

But yes, as Roxxxannne says, Juvenal used it in his Satires, and he probably took it from Persius.


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## apmoy70

I think we must be a minority here, we don't use such a metaphor at all.

Such persons are either
(I)*«Παράξενος, -νη, -νο»* [pa.ˈɾa.k͡s̠e.no̞s̠] (masc.), [pa.ˈɾa.k͡s̠e.ni] (fem.), [pa.ˈɾa.k͡s̠e.no̞] (neut.) --> _strange, odd, weird_  < Classical adj. *«παράξενος» părắksĕnŏs* --> _half-foreign, counterfeit, strange, extraordinary_, a compound: Classical prefix & preposition *«παρά» părắ* + Classical nominal *«ξένος» ksénŏs* --> _foreigner, guest, host_ (earlier «ξένϝoς» ksénwŏs, Mycenaean syllabary ke-se-nu-wo). The semantic agreement with the old PIE word for 'foreigner, guest', seen in Lat. _hostis_ 'foreigner, enemy', Go. _gasts_ 'guest', OCS _гость_ 'id.', IE *gʰosti-, has led to attempts to connect these with _ξένος_, assuming a root etymology *gʰes-. The word _ξένος_ however could be Pre-Greek; or,

(II)*«Σπάνιος, -ια, -ιο»* [ˈs̠pa.ni.o̞s̠] (masc.), [ˈs̠pa.ni.a] (fem.), [ˈs̠pa.ni.o̞] (neut.) --> _rare, exceptional, infrequent_ < Classical nominal *«σπάνιος» spắnĭŏs* --> _rare, uncommon, scarce, scanty_ < Classical fem. noun *«σπάνις» spắnĭs* --> _the condition of something being scarce or deficient_ (of unknown etymology).


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## Ghabi

amikama said:


> *עוף מוזר* - lit. "strange bird"





סייבר־שד said:


> *bicho raro *= "strange bug"


Is the expression positive, negative or neutral? Can you use it to praise someone? Thanks!


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## Penyafort

apmoy70 said:


> I think we must be a minority here, we don't use such a metaphor at all.



What about _a white blackbird_? The expression, seen in languages like French or Spanish (_*un merle blanc*_, _*un mirlo blanco*_) to refer to someone exceptional or rare, apparently had its origins in Ancient Greek.


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## amikama

Answering for the Hebrew expression:



Ghabi said:


> Is the expression positive, negative or neutral?


Usually neutral, may be negative, depending on the context.



Ghabi said:


> Can you use it to praise someone?


No.


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## apmoy70

Penyafort said:


> What about _a white blackbird_? The expression, seen in languages like French or Spanish (_*un merle blanc*_, _*un mirlo blanco*_) to refer to someone exceptional or rare, apparently had its origins in Ancient Greek.


Νo, I'm afraid not, it's been lost in time, not even the Byzantines used a similar expression. Do you happen to know the name of the rare bird in ancient Greek? I found it in MoGr (and we don't use it in any metaphor) but I haven't been able to find it in AnGr (that, or I'm getting old)


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## alfaalfa

Ciao,
we have _la mosca bianca_ ( the white fly) and  _la bestia rara _( the rare beast).
In the Italian dictionaries there's _ Rara avis _(fem.  noun) with the meaning of "rare bird" but it's not commonly used.


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## apmoy70

I found something (is that what you have in mind @Penyafort?), there's a very rare bird used by Aristotle, and the ancient Greek tragedians in metaphors for a rare person, they called it *«κύψελος» kúpsĕlŏs* (masc.), in MoGr *«σταχτοχελίδονο»* [s̠t̠a.xt̠o̞.çe̞.ˈli.ðo̞.no̞] (neut.) - - > _hirundo rupestris, Eurasian crag martin_. It's a kind of swallow:


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## Yendred

To stay in the avian metaphors, in French I would say:
_un drôle d'oiseau_


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## סייבר־שד

Ghabi said:


> Is the expression positive, negative or neutral? Can you use it to praise someone? Thanks!


Negative, by far, definitely not something you want to use to praise anyone.


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## Yendred

The question is: why are we so angry with birds that we call strange people birds?


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## Ghabi

Yendred said:


> why are we so angry to birds to call strange people by their name?


In English "rare bird/rara avis" seems rather positive (or at least not negative)?


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## elroy

The negative phrase in English is “*odd* bird.”

“rare” is not negative in English.


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## Frank78

"Seltsamer Vogel" (strange/odd bird) in German. Due to the male gender of bird, it is mostly used to describe men only.


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## Welsh_Sion

*Cymraeg/Welsh

Mae o'n dipyn o dderyn*
Is he PRED. SOFT MUTATION bit of SOFT MUTATION bird
'He's a bit of a bird'


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## סייבר־שד

Yendred said:


> The question is: why are we so angry with birds that we call strange people birds?


Well, I know the droppings (or "crappings" like I sometimes prefer to call them) they leave all over the edge of my azotehuela* every first half of every effing year don't exactly make me love them, but perhaps that's not a good enough reason for all that hate?

 *_A sort of laundry room/yard common in houses and apartments here in Mexico._


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## Henares

In Polish, “biały kruk” (“white raven”) means something extremely rare, especially books.  

On the other hand,“niebieski ptak” (“blue bird”) means a person who is reckless. 

If someone is strange we could call him “cudak” (from “cud” meaning “wonder”; it’s not positive, but can be humorous).


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## bearded

In addition to what alfaalfa wrote in #15, I would say that
_mosca bianca/bestia rara/rara avis _(Lat.) usually have a positive meaning in Italian.
In a negative sense we use _pecora nera_ (=black sheep), especially when talking about the bad son or daughter in a family (_la pecora nera della famiglia_).


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## סייבר־שד

Henares said:


> On the other hand,“niebieski ptak” (“blue bird”) means a person who is reckless.


Now, that's one I don't think I've ever come across in any other language,  though perhaps it's common to Slavic ones? I quite like it!  Do you happen to know where its origins lie?


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## Henares

סייבר־שד said:


> Now, that's one I don't think I've ever come across in any other language,  though perhaps it's common to Slavic ones? I quite like it!  Do you happen to know where its origins lie?


It’s from the Bible, Matthew 6:26:

“See the birds of the sky, that they don’t sow, neitherdo they reap, nor gather into barns. Your heavenly Father feeds them.”

In Old Polish “niebieski” meant both “blue” and “heavenly”. “Niebo” means both “the sky” and “Heaven”.


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## סייבר־שד

Henares said:


> In Old Polish “niebieski” meant both “blue” and “heavenly”.


It still does, though, doesn't it?


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## Dymn

סייבר־שד said:


> In Mexican Spanish, at least, I don't think there's any avian-related label for such individuals, we prefer bugs, rather.
> 
> *bicho raro *= "strange bug"





Ghabi said:


> Is the expression positive, negative or neutral? Can you use it to praise someone? Thanks!


It's also used in Spain and it's negative, used for someone with a weird character. Totally different from the Latinism _rara avis_ which means someone or something is an exception, and it's neutral.


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## Henares

סייבר־שד said:


> It still does, though, doesn't it?


It occurs in fixed phrases like “Królestwo Niebieskie” (Kingdom of Heaven) (the order of words is important - “niebieskie królestwo” just means “blue kingdom”), the Bible and religious songs.

The modern term for “heavenly” is “niebiański”.


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## ThomasK

Een vreemde vogel (een rare vogel perhaps)
(The odd one out: een vreemde eend in de bijt, a strange duck in the bite/....)


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## סייבר־שד

ThomasK said:


> Een vreemde vogel (een rare vogel perhaps)
> (The odd one out: een vreemde eend in de bijt, a strange duck in the bite/....)


I also remember coming across *een rare kwibus *in the Dutch translation of Vikram Seth's _"An equal music"_; I found its possible etymologies quite interesting.


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## ThomasK

Yes, very interesting note! I had been focussing on the bird phrase mainly, but that is a very good addition!


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## se16teddy

In English we have queer as a coot - Wiktionary 
Wikitionary suggests that in this expression « queer » always means « homosexual » but I suspect it can also mean just « odd ».


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## Włoskipolak 72

Polish

Rare bird = rzadki okaz , lit.  rare sample (speciemen).

*עוף מוזר =*lit*. *dziwny ptak (strange bird)


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## ThomasK

se16teddy said:


> In English we have queer as a coot - Wiktionary
> Wikitionary suggests that in this expression « queer » always means « homosexual » but I suspect it can also mean just « odd ».


Isn't it the other way around: "queer" meaning "odd" originally but gradually come to mean "homosexual"?


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## Demiurg

Frank78 said:


> "Seltsamer Vogel" (strange/odd bird) in German.



Also: _schräger Vogel_  (lit. _askew_)


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## DEHER

Yendred said:


> To stay in the avian metaphors, in French I would say:
> _un drôle d'oiseau_


On dit aussi "mouton à cinq pattes", pour rester dans le registre des animaux !

mouton à cinq pattes nm    figuré ([qqn/qch] de rare) (figurative)    rare bird n


mouton à cinq pattes - traduction - Dictionnaire Français-Anglais WordReference.com


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## סייבר־שד

ThomasK said:


> Isn't it the other way around: "queer" meaning "odd" originally but gradually come to mean "homosexual"?


The meaning "homosexual" developed after that of "odd, strange", yes, but notice that se16teddy specified that the Wiktionary suggested that, _in that particular expression,_ the word *queer *only meant "homosexual".


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## ThomasK

I had just checked as for the word itself and found out that "Sense of "homosexual" is attested by 1922" (etymonline.com), but I suddenly realize that you are referring to that specific _coot_ expression.

But in the meantime I noticed that the "coot" probably refers to water fowl, to the lake coot in particular, which we know in Dutch as "meerkoet". The bird was considered stocky, round (/koet/), just like _konijnenkeutels _(rabbitshit, rabbit turd).


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## se16teddy

ThomasK said:


> I noticed that the "coot" probably refers to water fowl, to the lake coot in particular, which we know in Dutch as "meerkoet"


 As far as I am aware, in Britain the word “coot” invariably refers to this species, noted for its belligerent (I am tempted to say “psychotic”) character. I think it is named after its angry call! Eurasian Coot Bird Facts | Fulica Atra - The RSPB


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## ThomasK

Really? Quite interesting. Yet, I often walk along a canal, with plenty of meerkoeten, but they just hurry back into the water when I pass by - except for some that stay without producing any noise. Do Belgian coots behave differently?


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