# Serbian (BCS): Che bella faccia tosta! (IT)



## pallina89

Hi everybody!
I would like to know how you say this idiomatic italian sentence ''Che bella faccia tosta (che ha)'' in serbian.
I don't know the respective translation in english, sorry.
Thanks in advance to all!


----------



## sauge

If this means "you're so stubborn!", then in Serbian it would be:
Jao, što si tvrdoglava! (- addressed to a female! to a male: tvrdoglav)

(I don't speak Italian, so ask somebody who does, to be sure!)


----------



## pallina89

Yeah, I do think it is ''You're so stubborn''
A question: How is it the pronunciation?


----------



## doorman

Indeed, it does mean "you're so stubborn" 

As an addition to what sauge suggested, when you're mad at someone, you might add "like a horse":
"Tvrdoglav(a) si kao konj"

As far as the pronunciation goes, I don't know the int. pronunc. signs, so I'll try to write it as how it should be written in italian in order to achieve more or less the same sound:

Jao, što si tvrdoglav(a) = Iao, scto si tvrdoghlav(a)
Tvrdoglav(a) si kao konj = Tvrdoghlav(a) si cao cogn

Notes:
* the "sc" in "scto" is prononounced exactly like the "sc" in "sci" (ita) - only without the "i"
* the "gn" in "conj" is prononunced the regular "italian" way - like "gn" in "gnomo"


----------



## pallina89

Ah I understood everything!
Iao, shto = (Jao, što)
Konj = cogn

The š is like the shh in romanian, I think it is the same sound.
Thanks guys!


----------



## Angel.Aura

Hello everybody,

I'm afraid the Italian sentence doesn't translate exactly as "S/he'e so stubborn!". 
_Che bella faccia tosta_ is *What (a) cheek!* or *What (a) nerve*!
Of course I'll leave the Serbian version to you...


----------



## Duya

"Ch*ee*k" in English means "obraz". In the secondary meaning, it also reflects a person's character, as in BCS, though the meaning is opposite (or rather, it is used ironically):

BCS: "on *nema* obraza" = EN: "he's not honest"
EN: "what [a] cheek!" = BCS: "kakva drskost!" "kakav bezobrazluk!"

So, I'd probably translate the English "what cheek" with "kakva drskost!" (gentler, may have positive connotations) or "kakav bezobrazluk!" (stronger, more condescending).

Disclaimer: I don't know how "Che bella faccia tosta!" fits in the whole story.

Mod note:
To avoid misunderstandings, the post by doorman which was the result of a misunderstanding has been moved to a new thread; comments on this post have been removed as they're no longer necessary.


----------



## Angel.Aura

Check: What a cheek!


----------



## doorman

Duya said:


> So, I'd probably translate the English "what cheek" with "kakva drskost!" (gentler, may have positive connotations) or "kakav bezobrazluk!" (stronger, more condescending).



That's it, you got it right, although (AFAIK) nobody will actually say "kakva drskost" - it can be found in literature and such, but people usually use "kakav bezobrazluk". A more used form, though, is 
kako je bezobrazan - for a male person
kako je bezobrazna - for a female person

Duya, thnx for correcting me earlier


----------



## Duya

doorman said:


> That's it, you got it right, although (AFAIK) nobody will actually say "kakva drskost" - it can be found in literature and such, but people usually use "kakav bezobrazluk". A more used form, though, is
> kako je bezobrazan - for a male person
> kako je bezobrazna - for a female person



Yes, "kakva drskost" is somewhat bookish.

Not sure about the exact undertones of "che bella facia tosta" or "what cheek/nerve!". In BCS, (Serbian colloquial at least), if you want to admire someone who is bold, courageous, and/or presumptuous, you could say:

[Baš] ima petlju!


----------



## sokol

Duya said:


> Yes, "kakva drskost" is somewhat bookish.
> 
> Not sure about the exact undertones of "che bella facia tosta" or "what cheek/nerve!". In BCS, (Serbian colloquial at least), if you want to admire someone who is bold, courageous, and/or presumptuous, you could say:
> 
> [Baš] ima petlju!


What about "(baš) ima obraza"?

Or is this rather a Croatian idiom and "ima peltju" its Serbian equivalent?

The English idiom usually is not meant complimentary but you still can use it in a joking way, so probably that's the best translation one could get - and we also should take into account that English and Italian idiom too might only be closely matched, but not exactly - not to every nuance of meaning.


----------



## doorman

Duya said:


> Not sure about the exact undertones of "che bella facia tosta" or "what cheek/nerve!". In BCS, (Serbian colloquial at least), if you want to admire someone who is bold, courageous, and/or presumptuous, you could say:
> 
> [Baš] ima petlju!



This Italian idiom is (in most cases) taken as a negative phrase, a rather negative one, I might add. However, it can be used as kind of a compliment amongst friends (but then and only then). In that case, I would agree with you, Duya. Although I must say I do not agree on the case of "petlja" - I'd use the genitive case here:

_[Baš] ima[š] petlje!_



sokol said:


> What about "(baš) ima obraza"?
> 
> Or is this rather a Croatian idiom and "ima peltju" its Serbian equivalent?



In fact, both of them can be used in both Croatian and Serbian. Their meanings are, however, quite different:

_Imati obraza_ - *always* has a negative connotation (a very strong one) - basically means "shameless" (in a very negative way).
"How could you slap him like that after all he's done for you?" = "Kako imaš obraza tako ga ošamariti nakon svega što je za tebe učinio?"

_Imati petlje_ - in most cases, it describes something positively (its literal English translation would be "to have gut") - usually associated with things people are afraid of:
"Do you have the gut to jump over that bridge?" = "Imaš li petlje preskočiti onaj most?"


----------



## Duya

doorman said:


> Although I must say I do not agree on the case of "petlja" - I'd use the genitive case here:
> 
> _[Baš] ima[š] petlje!_



I suspect it's a Serbian-Croatian difference here. Genitive is OK for me, but I wouldn't use it naturally. Google search for "ima petlje" gives mostly Croatian sites, while "ima petlju" lists Serbian ones. 



doorman said:


> _Imati obraza_ - *always* has a negative connotation (a very strong one) - basically means "shameless" (in a very negative way).
> "How could you slap him like that after all he's done for you?" = "Kako imaš obraza tako ga ošamariti nakon svega što je za tebe učinio?"



Just to clarify: "obraz" on its own is a positive metaphor: it means "honesty", "humanity", "honor". (For example, a Serbian right-wing organization calls themselves "Obraz"). Note also the adjective "bezobrazan < bez + obraz (without-cheek)" meaning "impudent, shameless". However, it is typically used in negative sentences, to indicate the lack of above-mentioned characteristics:

"Kako imaš obraza da...?" = "How do you have honesty to..."


----------



## spulp

I must admit my serbian is not very good, but as far as I know "bezobrazan" is more similar to "maleducato" (= rude, ill-mannered) rather than "avere faccia tosta". I would say "bas imas obraza".
The origin of the phrase "faccia tosta" is "hard face", meaning that "your face is so hard that you could do anything without being ashamed of your actions", so it is very similar to "cheeky"
 "Stubborn", suggested in some posts, has a different meaning, it sounds more related to "testa dura", meaning originally  "hard head".


----------



## Duya

There is also "ima obraz kao đon", which is rather similar to the Italian expression.


----------

