# All Slavic languages: pejorative words for other nations



## winpoj

Hello,

I would like to know if you have many of those pejorative words / ethnic slurs for the members of other nations.

In Czech we have such more or less offensive words for a number of nationalities: eg.: Němčour, Rusák, Taliján, Frantík, Anglán, Rákosník for Germans, Russians, Italians, French, English and Vietnamese, respectively.

A more recent one is "Úkáčko" for the Ukrainians (especially guestworkers).

And more specifically, and perhaps a bit masochistically: Do you have one for Czechs? So far, I am only aware of "Pepički" in Polish and "Čehúni" in Slovak.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

*Slovenian:*

*Švabi *= Germans
*Čefurji* = natives of other former Yugoslav republics, particularly those who live in Slovenia (can be *very* pejorative)
*Južnjaki = *natives of other former Yugoslav republics (slightly less pejorative)
*Makaronarji* = Italians (fairly mild, often facetious)
*Lahi* = Italians
*Srbendarji* = Serbs
*Hrvatarji* = Croats
*Šiptarji = *Albanians (although this resembles the word Albanians use to refer to themselves, it can be very pejorative when used in Slovenian)
*Čehički* = Czechs
*Žabarji = *the French (this is more commonly used by people outside of Ljubljana to refer to natives of the capital city)


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

winpoj said:


> In Czech we have such more or less offensive words for a number of nationalities: eg.: Němčour


 
In Slovenian, *Nemčurji* was often used to refer to pro-German Slovenes during Austro-Hungarian times. It carries the connotation of being a traitor.


----------



## Tagarela

Ahoj,

Following Winpoj's masochism, do you have one for Brazilians or to Latin Americans? 

Na shledanou.:


----------



## Azori

I've noticed quite a fair amount of words "čobol", "čoboli", "čobolové" on various Czech forums, where Czechs are referring to Slovaks in a pejorative way. Any idea where did this come from and what exactly does it mean?

To your question... I really can't think of any in Slovak, probably "mad'ar" (Hungarian) can sound a bit offensive in some areas of Slovakia.


----------



## winpoj

I think it comes from the sentence "Čo bolo, to bolo, terazky som majorom". It was uttered by a funny Slovak character in a book - Tankový prapor or Černí baroni - not sure at the moment.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

lior neith said:


> To your question... I really can't think of any in Slovak, probably "mad'ar" (Hungarian) can sound a bit offensive in some areas of Slovakia.


 
I've noticed the word "Juhosi" being used in some Slovak forums to describe people from countries of the former Yugoslavia; is it common?


----------



## Azori

TriglavNationalPark said:


> I've noticed the word "Juhosi" being used in some Slovak forums to describe people from countries of the former Yugoslavia; is it common?


Well, "Juhoši" definitely doesn't sound like a pejorative word to me, it's only a shortened slang version of Juhoslávci. It sounds very informal, so I wouldn't say it's common.


----------



## Netro

Yeah, that's true.
Juhoslavia = Yugoslavia
Juhoši = Yugoslavian people

My contribution...
Pepani... for Czechs (pl.), originating from the name "Pepa".
Šikmáči... for Asians (pl.), mostly Vietnamese, Japanese and Chinese, originating from the shape of the eyes Asians have.

And something about what lior neith said...
Maďar (Hungarian), Talian (Italian) and Mongol (Mongolian) can be used as in a negative sense... like "Ty si ale Talian!" (="You are such an Italian!"). You can say it to a person who messed something up.

EDIT:
OK, I forgot to mention that some words are used the same as in Czech... like Frantík (French), Rusák (Russian) or Rákosník (Vietnamese), and additionally I have one more for Czechs... Čecháčci (plural), Čecháček (singular).


----------



## sokol

lior neith said:


> To your question... I really can't think of any in Slovak, probably "mad'ar" (Hungarian) can sound a bit offensive in some areas of Slovakia.


I am not quite sure but I think winpoj was referring in his initial post to names for other nations which are pejorative _per definitionem; _like those who have a pejorative suffix (Slovenian _Hrvatarji _- vs. neutral _Hrvat,_ or _Nemčurji _- vs. neutral for >one who likes Germans< _prijatelj Nemcev_ or something like that) or those without pejorative suffux but which never are used in a positive way and thus also are (only) pejorative (like Slovenian _Južnjaki _- this suffix in principle is not pejorative, it is also used, neutral, for Poles = Poljaki).

But _Mad'ari_ is the standard term for Hungarians in Slovak, so at least there's a difference - it is not always meant (and used) negative.

There are also some false friends here - winpoj's pejorative _Taliján _(neutral in Czech: _Ital) _vs. neutral, non-pejorative Croatian/Serbian _Talijan._


----------



## dihydrogen monoxide

Considering Slovene:
Čefurji is not pejorative anymore and I didn't know Žabarji was used for French. As for Žabarji I know of this usage:
Primorci (the ones living in South-West Slovenia) call people from Ljubljana like that, because in Ljubljana speech the word for what is kva, which by the way is the sound that frog makes in Standard Slovene and Standard Slovene word for what is kaj.


----------



## mcibor

In Polish, as winpoj said:
Czech - Pepiczek
Chinese - Kitajec
Asian race - Żółtek
German - Szwab, Szkop
Russian - Rusek, Kacap
French - Żabojad
English - Angol
Latino American - Latynos, for you Tagarela
Italian - Makaroniarz
American - Jankes
White race - Białas
Black race - Czarnuch

most are pejorative, only Latynos is neutral.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

dihydrogen monoxide said:


> Considering Slovene:
> Čefurji is not pejorative anymore


 
Really? I suppose it wouldn't be pejorative in some urban circles (particularly in Ljubljana) and among young immigrants or children of immigrants from other Yugoslav republics themselves, but referring to an unknown person as a "Čefur" could cause major offense in many contexts.



dihydrogen monoxide said:


> and I didn't know Žabarji was used for French. As for Žabarji I know of this usage:
> Primorci (the ones living in South-West Slovenia) call people from Ljubljana like that, because in Ljubljana speech the word for what is kva, which by the way is the sound that frog makes in Standard Slovene and Standard Slovene word for what is kaj.


 
Žabarji is used for the French on occasion, but yes, it's more frequently used for residents of Ljubljana. However, according to SSKJ, the nickname means "_prebivalec področja z žabami:_ barjanski žabarji", a reference to the Ljubljana Moors.


----------



## winpoj

mcibor said:


> In Polish, as winpoj said:
> 
> German - Szwab, Szkop
> 
> .




Yeah, Mcibor, I forgot - we also have "Skopčáci" for Germans. Wonder where this comes from.


----------



## Jana337

winpoj said:


> In Czech we have such more or less offensive words for a number of nationalities: eg.: Němčour, Rusák, Taliján, Frantík, Anglán, Rákosník for Germans, Russians, Italians, French, English and Vietnamese, respectively.
> 
> A more recent one is "Úkáčko" for the Ukrainians (especially guestworkers).





winpoj said:


> Yeah, Mcibor, I forgot - we also have "Skopčáci" for Germans. Wonder where this comes from.


According to Wikipedia, it means something like "down-the-hillers". 

As regards terms that didn't evolve from the actual name of the respective nationality, I think I am more accustomed to seeing them in lower-case letters - rákosníci, skopčáci. Actually, úkáčka as well. However - as one would have expected - these pejorative words mostly appear in anonymous internet discussions where all rules of correct orthography are routinely flouted so I am not sure what is "correct". I just think I'd tend to write "skopčák" and not "Skopčák".

The members of the youngest generation of Czech Vietnamese (born in the Czech Republic, fluent in Czech) refer to themselves as "banánové děti" or "banáni". It means that their appearance is yellow (a color commonly associated with people from East Asia) but they are white inside - they are Czechs culturally, a bit at odds with the traditional Vietnamese values of their parents. Interestingly, some of them think that "banáni" is what Czechs call them but I have never heard this from an ethnic Czech. But it's not even pejorative so why am I writing this here? 



TriglavNationalPark said:


> *Čehički* = Czechs


This is similar to a pejorative name we have for ourselves - Čecháček/Čecháčci (already mentioned by Netro for Slovak). The word embodies our narrowmindedness, parochialism and enviousness. I wonder what Slovenians imagine when they say Čehički. 


TriglavNationalPark said:


> I've noticed the word "Juhosi" being used in some Slovak forums to describe people from countries of the former Yugoslavia; is it common?


In Czech, "Jugoši" is pretty common, yes. But it doesn't strike me as particularly pejorative, at least in comparison with some aforementioned words. A short Czech word for Yugoslavia is/used to be Jugoška and this certainly wasn't and isn't used pejoratively. The typical usage: dovolená v Jugošce.


----------



## mcibor

Hi Winpoj

Found here something about szkop.

If you don't follow, then word Szkop is a neosemantism _(I'm not sure about this word)_. That is - previously it had other meaning and that other meaning is no longer used.
As word Szkop has two homophones: slavic _skop || *szkop*_ 'castrated ram' and germanic _*szkop*_ (_szkopek_) i _skop_ (_skopiec_) 'pot' we don't know from which of these comes that word.



Jana337 said:


> This is similar to a pejorative name we have for ourselves - Čecháček/Čecháčci. The word embodies our narrowmindedness, parochialism and enviousness. I wonder what Slovenians imagine when they say Čehički.



That reminded me, that there's a word "Polaczki" in Polish, that has a similar meaning.


----------



## Szymon Krulikowski

some more in Polish:
Jews - Mosiek, Parch, Starozakonny
German - Fryc
Hungarian - Bratanek, Madżiar
Italian - Italianiec
Russian - Ruchol
(Former) Yugoslavia - Jugol
Black race - Asfalt, Bambus, Brudas, Negatyw

I think that only _Bratanek_ (seems positive)and _Starozakonny _aren't pejorative. Maybe _Madżiar _is neutral too.


----------



## winpoj

Hello, Jana

I was not sure about the capitalization either but eventually followed the recommendation from here: http://prirucka.ujc.cas.cz/?action=view&id=181

It's interesting that Wikipedia claims a Sudetenlad origin for "Skopčáci" while there seems to be a Polish cognate. Did Germans prefer hills in Poland too?


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Jana337 said:


> This is similar to a pejorative name we have for ourselves - Čecháček/Čecháčci (already mentioned by Netro for Slovak). The word embodies our narrowmindedness, parochialism and enviousness. I wonder what Slovenians imagine when they say Čehički.


 
I don't think *Čehički *carries any of those connotations in Slovenia, but that's *precisely* the connotation of the pejorative word *Slovenčki *(singular: Slovenček, dual: Slovenčka) that we Slovenes often use for ourselves. I wonder whether this word was based on the Czech example. *Slovenceljni* is also used in this context, but I believe it's more recent.

Speaking of Slovenes, a common nickname for us in Croatia (and possibly other countries of the former Yugoslavia) is *Janezi*. Janez is a very common first name in Slovenia.



Jana337 said:


> In Czech, "Jugoši" is pretty common, yes. But it doesn't strike me as particularly pejorative, at least in comparison with some aforementioned words. A short Czech word for Yugoslavia is/used to be Jugoška and this certainly wasn't and isn't used pejoratively. The typical usage: dovolená v Jugošce.


 
I'm speculating here, but I guess it could be considered offensive by some, even if offense is not intended, because it's a single nickname used for a whole group of nations, much like *Južnjaki *in Slovenia*.*



Szymon Krulikowski said:


> Black race - Asfalt, Bambus, Brudas, Negatyw.


 
In Slovenija, *Zamorci *(singular: Zamorec, dual: Zamorca) is a pejorative name for black people (*za* = beyond, *morje* = sea).


----------



## sokol

TriglavNationalPark said:


> I'm speculating here, but I guess it could be considered offensive by some, even if offense is not intended, because it's a single nickname used for a whole group of nations, much like *Južnjaki *in Slovenia*.*


Just a question, Triglav: is *Južnjaki *really used for _all _citizens of former YU? When I was in Ljubljana in 1998 I got the impression that it was used for those of "Serbo-Croatian" mother tongue [it was very pejorative then, I was told, but this obviously has changed now].

I think they even had other (even more pejorative) names for Macedonians and Albanians but memory is blurred ... I can't remember any of them.


----------



## skye

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Really? I suppose it wouldn't be pejorative in some urban circles (particularly in Ljubljana) and among young immigrants or children of immigrants from other Yugoslav republics themselves, but referring to an unknown person as a "Čefur" could cause major offense in many contexts.
> 
> 
> 
> Žabarji is used for the French on occasion, but yes, it's more frequently used for residents of Ljubljana. However, according to SSKJ, the nickname means "_prebivalec področja z žabami:_ barjanski žabarji", a reference to the Ljubljana Moors.


 
When I hear the word žabar my first association is: someone from Ljubljana. I wouldn't think of the French either. 

I'd say that čefur is still very pejorative.

I've never heard of the word čehički. I think it must be something new or limited to a certain area.


----------



## Tolovaj_Mataj

skye said:


> I'd say that čefur is still very pejorative.
> 
> I've never heard of the word čehički. I think it must be something new or limited to a certain area.


 
I completely agree with this two. 



sokol said:


> Just a question, Triglav: is *Južnjaki *really used for _all _citizens of former YU?


Yes, absolutely. Južnjaki are all ex-Yugoslavs south of Kolpa river regardless their nationality.

Croats: Kroati, Kroatarji, even Hrčki can be found on the web forums.

Austrians: holcerji (holcarji), jodlarji, frici.

Englishmen: Angležarji

Americans: Ameri




mcibor said:


> In Polish, as winpoj said:
> Chinese - Kitajec


Here we have a falso friend. In Slovene _Kitajec_ is a standard and official word for a Chinese man.


----------



## Tolovaj_Mataj

Jana337 said:


> This is similar to a pejorative name we have for ourselves - Čecháček/Čecháčci (already mentioned by Netro for Slovak). The word embodies our narrowmindedness, parochialism and enviousness. I wonder what Slovenians imagine when they say Čehički.


Well, nothing bad at all, especially not that what you wrote about the character. 
Čehički refers more to how you Czechs speak your language using all those words which us Slovenes remind on deminutive words in our language.

You are a bit too far away from us and we haven't had close connections with your nation since 1918, so we can't juge you upon your character any more.


----------



## Mišo

Good evening!

My mite next-to thread subject:

"Rakušák/Rakušáci" (Austrian/Austrians) is routinely used instead "Rakúšan/Rakúšania".

On the other way, historic nomenclature "Rakúsy" (Austria) has been wholly replaced with "Rakúsko".


----------



## sokol

Mišo said:


> "Rakušák/Rakušáci" (Austrian/Austrians) is routinely used instead "Rakúšan/Rakúšania".


_Rakušák _being the pejorative one, right?


Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Austrians: holcerji (holcarji), jodlarji, frici


Nice to also see some Austrian nicks. 

I expect that "frici" refers not specifically to Austrians, right? (See Polish "fryc", or more so - "Fritz" is something of an "international" pejorative term for Germans*).)
So to call us "frici" would be even more offending.  (As Austrians, obviously, are not Germans*).)_
*) German here refers to German nation and not to German language. Which, obviously, is not the same._ 

But to contribute something *new*, or rather: historical; I found some photographs from 1998 (from Ljubljana) with _južnjaki _and _čefurjem_ used both in _very _offensive ways. So obviously those aren't as offensive anymore as they were then, as prooven by the posts above.


----------



## Mišo

Mišo said:


> My mite next-to thread subject





sokol said:


> _Rakušák _being the pejorative one, right?



Not quite. In simple understanding, "Rakušák" is not pop-off expresivity, nor either a rural vocable, but rather one regular slang.


----------



## WannaBeMe

Very interesting topic, winpoj.
In my dialect, which is also standard of BCS there is not to many pejorative words for the members of other nations. Well, this pejoratives would exist just for people with whom we had wars in the past. 
*Svabo*-German (njemac) (I don´t know why, perhaps becouse many of "Schwaben" lived in Vojvodina or becouse of occupation of Bosnia);
*Siptar*-Albanian (albanac) (Siptars call themselves this way, but if we say it is offence);
*Turcin*-this is interesting one! It means just Turk, but at almost every Serb this word is sayed with disgust or contempt. Many Serbs say so also to Bosnian Moslems but this time without contempt;
*Vlah*-Moslems call Serbs this way,this has older origins, but for Serbs this word means aboriginal, old-timer or similar. Serbs call Romanians this way very often (without atempting to offence them).

The three next are common after the new war in Yugoslavia:
*B**alija*-Serbs and some Croats say for Bosnian Moslems (but also before the war);
*Cetnik*-Craoats and Moslems say it for Serbs with despite (after the War), but many Serbs don´t offence, many of them like it;
*Ustasa*-Serbs and Moslems say it for Croats with despite (also after the war). Possibly many Croats don´t offence and feel proud; In some areas is *Sokac* (from Ital. sciocca-dumb,idiot) or *Purger* (Croats from Zagrab) for Croats ment also with a little bit despite;
*Kosooki*-Asians;
*Crnjo, Crncuga*-Black people;

I don´t think that we have any other pejoratives for any (other) slavic nation or any other nation out of Ex-Yugoslavia.
I beg my other "Yugosi"-friends to correct me if I´m wrong or sth. misses.


----------



## sokol

WannaBeMe said:


> *Svabo*-German (njemac) (I don´t know why, perhaps becouse many of "Schwaben" lived in Vojvodina or becouse of occupation of Bosnia);


The reasons are historic.

After Habsburg's victory over the Turks in 1683 huge parts of the Hungarian Puszta and parts of Bačka and Banat were re-populated with settlers from all regions of the monarchy and additional settlers from German states; the Swabian German settlers weren't the only German speaking settlers there but their name nevertheless became nominative for the whole group - the so-called Donauschwaben, they adopted this name for themselves (see German Wiki for the regions from where they came; mainly but not exclusively from Swabia and Rhine states).
By the way, they still spoke their original (Swabian, Franconian) dialects in the 19th century.

Therefore it is only natural that names with the element "Švab" are used for Germans there, and it is nothing out of the ordinary that this name developped into a pejorative one.


----------



## WannaBeMe

Vielen Dank, Sokol !


----------



## Tolovaj_Mataj

Moderator note: I've edited out the off-topic part and re-formulated my post above.
This is not a thread about nations and how to define them, but about *pejorative words for other nations.* Thank you! (sokol)
 


sokol said:


> But to contribute something *new*, or rather: historical; I found some photographs from 1998 (from Ljubljana) with _južnjaki _and _čefurjem_ used both in _very _offensive ways. So obviously those aren't as offensive anymore as they were then, as prooven by the posts above.


I guess it depends on the age generation  somebody belongs. For younger generation you could be right, but not for mine and above. These words are still very rude, even here in Ljubljana.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> These words are still very rude, even here in Ljubljana.


 
I agree. I was surprised by dihydrogen monoxide's assertion that *Čefur *is no longer pejorative. In my experience, the contexts where it's not pejorative, and there are some, are considerably more limited than contexts where it's still highly offensive.


----------



## Kanes

We don't really have many words like this for specific nations, only I could think of are Serbs _shumadiici,_ Romanians _mamaligi_ and Italians _zhabari._ Generally though you call _mangali (gypsies) _any foreigners you don't like. For northern europeans you can aways say _rusi mangali_... blond gypsies.


----------



## texpert

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Čehički refers more to how you Czechs speak your language using all those words which us Slovenes remind on deminutive words in our language.
> You are a bit too far away from us and we haven't had close connections with your nation since 1918, so we can't juge you upon your character any more.


 

I've been recently told (by an exchange student in SI) that Slovenes widely use the adjective "Czech" for "stupid, dumb or crazy" (in reference to parties, people's behaviour, appearance etc.). Can anyone confirm this?

The other well known example of enhancing ethnic names with additional meanings is "czeski film" (= dumbfounding nonsense) in Polish - while "spanelska vesnice" (Spanish village) serves roughly the same purpose in Czech. 

Also, neutral ethnic names seem to be evolving into slurs of their own. Examples from CZ:
_maďar_ (Hungarian): silly looking idiot (likely a reference to Zdeněk Sverák movie Vesničko má středisková)
_ukrajinec_ (Ukrainian): any cheap hard-worker, often skilled (_too much hassle - hire yourself an Ukrainian_)
_bulhar_ (Bulgarian) - Boorish fellow
_rumuni_ (Romanians) - pickpockets.

Are there similar examples in other Slavic languages?

Few other slurs that spring to mind: Pakoš (Paki), Bubák, Čmoud (any dark skinned person - rather pejorative, especially the latter), Jogurt (alternative to Jugoš), Arabáš (any person of Arabic appearance hanging around doing nothing).


----------



## lavverats

Hi,
In addition to Kanes's post some other pejoratives in Bulgarian:
the Serbs - сърбежи /sarbezhi/ (itches);
the Turks - рязани /ryazani/ (circumcised);
the Asians - дръпнати /drapnati/ (don't know the English word for that);
the Albanians - шиптари /shiptari/;
the Greeks - византийци /vizantiytsi/ (Byzantines, i.e. sly, low-down, vulpine people);
the Jews - чифути /chifuti/;
the Italians - жабари /zhabari/ (frog-eaters);
the Romanians - мамалигари /mamaligari/ (hominy-eaters).

As for pejoratives for Bulgarians, I have heard the following:
Tatari (tartars) - mainly from the ex-Yu republics;
Bolvari (originating from "bolva" - flea) - Macedonians call us so sometimes;
Vulgars - from Greeks.
Regards


----------



## trance0

texpert said:


> I've been recently told (by an exchange student in SI) that Slovenes widely use the adjective "Czech" for "stupid, dumb or crazy" (in reference to parties, people's behaviour, appearance etc.). Can anyone confirm this?
> 
> The other well known example of enhancing ethnic names with additional meanings is "czeski film" (= dumbfounding nonsense) in Polish - while "spanelska vesnice" (Spanish village) serves roughly the same purpose in Czech.
> 
> Also, neutral ethnic names seem to be evolving into slurs of their own.



I can confirm this, using the adjective "Czech" in this manner is very common in Slovenia. 

"Spanelska vesnice" or "španska vas" is used in Slovene like this: "francoščina je meni španska vas" which translates into English "I know nothing about French (language)".


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

texpert said:


> I've been recently told (by an exchange student in SI) that Slovenes widely use the adjective "Czech" for "stupid, dumb or crazy" (in reference to parties, people's behaviour, appearance etc.). Can anyone confirm this?



I've not heard it used in quite this context. "Czech" is sometimes used to mean unfashionable, though. If someone "dresses like a Czech", he/she is thought to wear unfashionable clothes or possibly an unusual combination of clothing/footwear (sandals with socks, for example). In the world of Slovenian stereotypes, Czechs are the opposite of Italians, who are generally seen as very fashionable.

I'm not really familiar with current streetwise lingo, however, so I hope others can add more.


----------



## zigaramsak

texpert said:


> I've been recently told (by an exchange student in SI) that Slovenes widely use the adjective "Czech" for "stupid, dumb or crazy" (in reference to parties, people's behaviour, appearance etc.). Can anyone confirm this?


 
That is true, though the meaning is not that bad in my opinion. I think it originally referred to the "Czech" goods and people, but is being used in wider contexts nowadays...

There were times when we (from Yugoslavia) were going a lot to ČSSR (Československá socialistická republika) for shopping, because many things (tools, food) were much cheaper. Probably not all the goods there were that cheap, only we were trying to save money and would buy anything as long as it was cheap. Many times it turned out that the quality of these goods corresponded to the price. After a while even the Czechs (and Slovaks, we couldn't tell who was who) themselves realized that they could make money and they brought their cheap goods to sell here as they came for holidays. I think that's when the phrase "Czech goods" got the negative meaning (Češka roba).

As for the people, I can't really say, I don't think the adjective means dumb or stupid. I think "funny" would be a better word - one cause being the language for the reason mentioned above (normal Czech words meaning diminutives in Slovenian). Maybe also crazy, probably because there’s a lot of Czech people involved in the mountain accidents (it might only appear that way, because there’s so many of them coming here to climb).

At any rate, the phrase stuck and is being used, sometimes maybe even in other contexts meaning something bad or even dumb, especially among younger people.


----------



## echo chamber

Hi,



lavverats said:


> the Albanians - шиптари /shiptari/;
> the Italians - жабари /zhabari/ (frog-eaters);



The same pejorative words are used in Macedonian as well. In addition to the word "shiptari" [which is how Albanians address each other, (in Albanian: _Shqiptarët, _meaning _Albanians_), but if Macedonians refer to them as such, then it is offensive for them.], you can also hear the word _"Арнаути" /Arnauti/_  (from the Turkish word Arnavut, meaning "Albanian"), which has also a pejorative connotation. 

_Шваби_ _/shvabi/_ is used for Germans (I believe it has already been discussed where the name comes from);

As for the Gypsies, the word is _Циган_ _/Cigan/_, and although they refer to themselves as Cigani, if a non-gypsy calls them like that, they would quite often assume it has a negative, pejorative intention (like the case with the Albanians).

The word _Црнчуги /Crnchugi/_ is used for people of the Black race.

I don't think we have many special pejorative words for many different nationalities, but instead, we tend to form the pejorative when refering to certain nationality by adding the suffix _-шта, -чишта /-shta, -chishta/_, for instance, people could say _Италијаништа /Italijanishta/_ instead of _Жабари /Zhabari/_, the former being more offensive word for Italians than the latter. 




lavverats said:


> Bolvari (originating from "bolva" - flea) - Macedonians call us so sometimes;



Hmm, funny, I have never heard it in my life...


----------



## lavverats

echo chamber said:


> Hmm, funny, I have never heard it in my life...


Some of you do use it. You may check it in some forums like Kajgana, Idividi, etc.
Regards


----------



## Kolan

In Russian there is not so many, but...

ляхи - Poles (now obsolete)
хохлы - Ukrainians (mildly offensive, mostly in jokes, movies of special interest)
Paradoxically, Russians culture does not have pejorative words for other Slavic nations.

бульбаши - Belorussians (among Jews living in Belarus)
жиды, жидовня -Jews (offensive)
чухонцы, чухня - Estonians (offensive)
пиндосы - Americans (USA, offensive), recent
канадоны - Canadians (among Russians living in Canada, not offensive, recent)
латиносы - all Latin Americans except of Brazilians (not offensive)
китаёзы - Chinese (mildly offensive)
чёрные, черножопые, чучмеки - Caucasian and Transcaucasian nations, Central Asian (by extension, sometimes interchangeable) - very offensive
загорелые - all Blacks (euphemistic)
духи - Afgani, recent
...


----------



## mcibor

texpert said:


> I've been recently told (by an exchange student in SI) that Slovenes widely use the adjective "Czech" for "stupid, dumb or crazy" (in reference to parties, people's behaviour, appearance etc.). Can anyone confirm this?




In Polish we use adjective Czech only for construction Czech movie (czeski film), which means a movie, that nobody understands what's going on


----------



## echo chamber

lavverats said:


> Some of you do use it. You may check it in some forums like Kajgana, Idividi, etc.
> Regards



Oh...well...that is maybe because I never register on forums of that kind.  Still, thanks for informing me.


----------



## iobyo

echo chamber said:


> Oh...well...that is maybe because I never register on forums of that kind.  Still, thanks for informing me.



It's a term used by Macedonian bloggers for those Bulgarians (more specifically bloggers) that go out of their way to make connections between the ancient Bulgars and today's Bulgarians. 

This is my understanding of the word. Doesn't really fit into the theme of this thread, but the word _татар_ does come to mind.


----------



## texpert

zigaramsak said:


> There were times when we (from Yugoslavia) were going a lot to ČSSR (Československá socialistická republika) for shopping.. that's when the phrase "Czech goods" got the negative meaning (Češka roba).


 
**

Thanks for clarifications. 

A simple Google search shows that "ceska roba" is almost as frequent phrase as "czeski film". But it si funny to see these expressions being passed from generation to generation. The current export of (rather ubiquitous) Skodas, beers and movies does not seem to make much difference - or perhaps contributes to the process? 

Although I must admit it's equally amazing to hear Czech teenagers speaking of "holidays in Yugoslavia", while meaning Croatia or Montenegro. By repeating overheard expressions they're giving a shadow life to the state that ceased to exist before they were born. 

As to the "czeski film", I'm inclined to think that it's late usage does - in spite of its originally derogatory meaning - reflect an ordinary Pole's interest into the neighbour's culture - by poking fun at it and enjoying it at the same time. I may be wrong, though.


----------



## Piotr_WRF

mcibor said:


> In Polish we use adjective Czech only for construction Czech movie (czeski film), which means a movie, that nobody understands what's going on





texpert said:


> As to the "czeski film", I'm inclined to think that it's late usage does - in spite of its originally derogatory meaning - reflect an ordinary Pole's interest into the neighbour's culture - by poking fun at it and enjoying it at the same time. I may be wrong, though.



The expression "czeski film" doesn't really refer to an actual film. As it is used nowadays it means an absurd situation where no one (or at least the speaker himself) doesn't know what's really going on. It's a fixed expression and I wouldn't associate it with any real Czech film.

EDIT: The expression may originate from the Czech film "Nikdo nic nevi" from 1947. It was apparently the first Czech comedy after WWII and quite popular in Poland. The title means "Nobody knows anything" and that's how most probably "czeski film" has got its meaning.


----------



## texpert

The polski Wikislownik actually finds its origins in "Nikt nic nie wie", allegedly launched on Polish market in 70's. 

Well, the movie itself must be a bit of "czeski film" to me, as I never heard of the title. 

But during my occasional stays in PL from early 90's until recently I have heard numerous hints at _actual_ films presented to me as good reasons for coining this phrase. "Jak utopit doktora Mráčka" being one of the examples. 

It was always a great deal of fun discussing it.


----------



## Kolan

One more Russian pejorative term (not offensive), starting to get outdated, for *Germans*: *немчура*. It is collective.

Le russe tel qu’on le parle — Н 
*немчура* (f) [nyemtchoura] : Les chleus, terme péjoratifs pour désigner les Allemands.
www.russki-mat.net/page.php?l=RuFr&a=Н - 30k -


----------



## texpert

Oh yes, *němčouři *in *Czech*, though I think it's slightly offensive.

Also *skopčáci *(obsolete)and more up-to-date *helmuti *(for men) *brunhildy, gertrudy *(for women) and *krauti.*

On the other hand, there's a peculiar absence of rude expressions for Austrians that seem to be far less popular (only in CZ, I think) than Germans these days. 

Do the other Slavic tongues fare any better?


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

texpert said:


> On the other hand, there's a peculiar absence of rude expressions for Austrians that seem to be far less popular (only in CZ, I think) than Germans these days.
> 
> Do the other Slavic tongues fare any better?


 
Tolovaj Mataj mentioned some pejorative Slovenian words for Austrians in post #22. I suppose it makes sense for Slovenian to have a greater number of such words for Austrians than Germans because, unlike the Czech Republic, Slovenia only borders Austria, not Germany.


----------



## texpert

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Austrians: holcerji (holcarji), jodlarji, frici.


 
The second and third names are quite clear to me (though you can't create a noun from the verb "jódlovat" in Czech). The first term is a guess game to me. Is it derived from "Holz", a German word for wood?


----------



## Saluton

Some additional words for Russian (in fact I think there are more than "not so many"):
*чурки* (ch*u*rki, literally 'chocks', 'dummies') - non-Mongoloid Asians, especially Caucasian nations
*носороги* (nosor*o*gi, literally 'rhinoceroses') - Caucasian nations, a rather rare, recent word, a hint to the large noses they often have
*москали* (moskal*i*) - used by Ukrainians for Russians, very widespread, how could we forget about it 
*кацапы* (kats*a*py) - Eastern-European word for Russians, does not sound too offensive to me
*фоняки* (fonyak*i*) has been recently discussed in the Russian forum, a word I haven't known before. It is used by Russian Jews for Russians

*америкосы* (amerik*o*sy) - Americans (offensive, recent). Actually, I think that adding "-ос" to the name of any nation would make a pejorative word for the nation. My stepsister who lives in the UAE says *пакистосы* (pakist*o*sy), meaning Pakistani people (there are quite a lot of them in the Arab Peninsula)

Besides, there are some suffixes in Russian that make any noun pejorative (-яшка, -ятина), and they are appended to ethnonyms as well: *итальяшка* (italy*a*shka) would mean an Italian (man or woman), *французик* (frants*u*zik) - a Frenchman, *индусятина *(indusy*a*tina) would mean people from India or, rarer, goods from India (widely used in the UAE as well)

*фрицы* (fr*i*tsy, Germans and perhaps Austrians), *янки* (y*a*nki, Americans), *макаронники* (makar*o*nniki, Italians), *лягушатники* (lyagush*a*tniki, French people) would also be pretty understandable, especially the first two words

And lastly, I'm sure there are a lot more regional words that the many Russian-speaking nations have made up for their neighbours.


----------



## Kolan

For Pakistani in Russian diaspora it exists a pejorative паки.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

texpert said:


> The first term is a guess game to me. Is it derived from "Holz", a German word for wood?


 
Yes, *holcar* (from the German "Holz") means lumberjack in colloquial Slovenian. In this case, it refers to an unsophiticated rural dweller, much like the words "hillbilly" and "redneck" in English. It's sometimes used as an all-encompassing pejorative word for Austrians, probably because of its German-language origin, but it can also be used to describe rural Slovenes (and others).

Another Slovenian word with a similarly negative connotation is *rovtar*, literally someone who lives in the mountains (either from *rovt* = a mountain meadow or pasture, or *rovte* = a remote place in the mountains; I'm not sure which).


----------



## kusurija

In Czech:
as to gypsies: Morgoš (strongly pejorative!)
_or _Američan z Vysočan (Američan refers to more dark skin; Vysočany - a city part of Prague, where used live more members of working class, than in other Prague's parts).
Hungarian: Vengroš (rare)
A name of potato in Czech: brambory - came from Gremans tribe name (Branderburgians - Braniboři -> brambory.
Vlach, Valach ~ Greece


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

kusurija said:


> In Czech:
> as to gypsies: Američan z Vysočan (Američan refers to more dark skin;


 
Interesting! In Slovenian, *Američan* is the standard, non-pejorative word for an American (male: *Američan*, female: *Američanka*). Another, largely archaic form (possibly mildly pejorative in current use), is *Amerikanec*.


----------



## phosphore

trance0 said:


> "Spanelska vesnice" or "španska vas" is used in Slovene like this: "francoščina je meni španska vas" which translates into English "I know nothing about French (language)".


 
Just like "španska sela" in Serbian. There are some pejorative names for people in Serbian, too:

*Švabe,* instead of Nemci, for *Germans,*
*Žabari* (people who eat frogs), for *Italians* and, rarely, *French,*
*Balije,* instead of *Bošnjaci *or *Muslimani,* for *Bosniaks,*
*Ustaše,* instead of *Hrvati,* for *Croats,*
*Čivuti,* for *Jews,* instead of *Jevreji,* but I think it is no longer used.

There is also some expression *Tuta Bugarin* for *Bulgarian,* I don't know where it comes from and what it means, but I think it is pejorative, although *Bugarin* only is not pejorative at all and it is the only way to say *Bulgarian.*

*Šiptari,* for *Albanians,* instead of* Albanci,* is sometimes conceived as offensive, but I don't think it really is.
*Slovenes* are sometimes called *Janezi,* instead of *Slovenci.*


----------



## Kolan

I think, for Austrians Russian had австрияки, but it was relevant only during the World War I and then nearly vanished with time. 

No pejorative names whatsoever we have for Slovaks, Czechs, Rusins, Bulgarians, Romanians, Serbs, Macedonians, Albanians, Croats, Bosniaks, Slovenes, Hungarians.


----------



## Saluton

*австрияки* (avstriy*a*ki) would still be understandable
*ниггеры* (n*i*ggery) is a well-known word
*негры* (n*e*gry, 'Negroes') can also be pejorative
*лампасяры* (lampas*ya*ry) is a word used by Caucasian nations for Cossacks (Cossack is not a nationality, but still)
*чехлы* (chekhl*y*) is a word used for Chechens, e.g. by Ingushes


----------



## Ayazid

kusurija said:


> In Czech:
> as to gypsies: Američan z Vysočan (Američan refers to more dark skin; Vysočany - a city part of Prague, where used live more members of working class, than in other Prague's parts).



Being from Brno I never heard this one, I think it's common only in Prague (unsurprisingly .). I have googled it and judging from the results it doesn't seem to be refering to Gypsies but rather to a certain kind of people (mostly businessmen) immoderately imitating "American" fashion etc. I also don't see any special connection between the word Američan (the standard Czech word for inhabitants of USA) and the idea of darker skin


----------



## winpoj

Well, I am from Prague and fully agree with Ayazid and disagree with Kusurija.


----------



## kusurija

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Interesting! In Slovenian, *Američan* is the standard, non-pejorative word for an American (male: *Američan*, female: *Američanka*). Another, largely archaic form (possibly mildly pejorative in current use), is *Amerikanec*.


Američan is standart (fully normal) nonpejorative name for inhabitant of (mainly North-)America (if used alone). The reference to Gypsies it gets only conjugated with "- z Vysočan". It is used in central(eastern part of central) Bohemia (maybe not so often in these days, but was popular in 60 - 70. yrs last century). If someone of You, dear collegues, didn't hear it yet - it is fully possible, but not my problem. Cheers!

Addings:
The Sans(Africa)(=Bushmen) = Křováci (both nonpejorative and pejorative meanings)
Hotentoti (Africa) (both nonpejorative and pejorative meanings)
Vandalové (mainly pejorative, actually ancient Celtic(?) tribe)
Fláma (pejorative)


----------



## winpoj

I have certainly heard the expression but not meaning a gypsy. It's no doubt possible that someone does use it that way. It is equally possible though that your memory has failed you in this respect, dear colleague.
Could you provide us with any links or references to the usage you have described?


----------



## texpert

My mother has been living in Prague most of her life and used to work in Vysočany in late 50's and early 60's. She is familiar with the *Američan z Vysočan* expression but refuses to associate it with anything in particular - the Roma nationality least of all. For my generation it can be almost anything, though if I ever said it out loud I must have been thinking of some pretentious personality. 

Add: 
As to Bushmen and Sans, *Křovák* and *Hotentot* with a capital letter is a member of an African tribe, while _*křovák*_ or _*hotentot*_ is just another simpleton (křovák being rarely used). Similar rule applies to *vandal *or *fláma *(binge-drinker), though the connection to Flemish had, honestly, never crossed my mind.


----------



## natasha2000

WannaBeMe said:


> Very interesting topic, winpoj.
> In my dialect, which is also standard of BCS there is not to many pejorative words for the members of other nations. Well, this pejoratives would exist just for people with whom we had wars in the past.
> *Svabo*-German (njemac) (I don´t know why, perhaps becouse many of "Schwaben" lived in Vojvodina or becouse of occupation of Bosnia);
> *Siptar*-Albanian (albanac) (Siptars call themselves this way, but if we say it is offence);
> *Turcin*-this is interesting one! It means just Turk, but at almost every Serb this word is sayed with disgust or contempt. Many Serbs say so also to Bosnian Moslems but this time without contempt;
> *Vlah*-Moslems call Serbs this way,this has older origins, but for Serbs this word means aboriginal, old-timer or similar. Serbs call Romanians this way very often (without atempting to offence them).
> 
> The three next are common after the new war in Yugoslavia:
> *B**alija*-Serbs and some Croats say for Bosnian Moslems (but also before the war);
> *Cetnik*-Craoats and Moslems say it for Serbs with despite (after the War), but many Serbs don´t offence, many of them like it;
> *Ustasa*-Serbs and Moslems say it for Croats with despite (also after the war). Possibly many Croats don´t offence and feel proud; In some areas is *Sokac* (from Ital. sciocca-dumb,idiot) or *Purger* (Croats from Zagrab) for Croats ment also with a little bit despite;
> *Kosooki*-Asians;
> *Crnjo, Crncuga*-Black people;
> 
> I don´t think that we have any other pejoratives for any (other) slavic nation or any other nation out of Ex-Yugoslavia.
> I beg my other "Yugosi"-friends to correct me if I´m wrong or sth. misses.



Yes we have. 

*Zabari *are Italians - zaba means frog, and since Italians eat frogs... (well I know it is only legs, but anywayl...)

*Vlah *is a name that is originaly in Middle Ages used not for any nation, but for sheepherds. In Old Medieval Serbia, there was even a Law that regulated the obligations of sheepherds called  Zakon vlahom (Vlah law). Later, the name was applied to nations Serbs and Romanians, much later, so it is not in bottom line, any kind of insult or derogatory. At least Serbs do not see it in this way.

*Kekec *- Slovenians. In Serbia, it is usually said that the biggest Slovenian hero was Kekec, who was a little sheepherd from Alps...  The word itself it is not derogatory, but the alusion that it makes is...

*Tuta Bugarin* - Bulgarians. I wouldn't know to explain what exactly means TUTA, but it is a kind of ugly to call a Bulgarian like this... There is also another expression, when you want to say to someone that you will kill him (normally it is said in anger, you don't really mean it) that you will kill him as a Tuta Bugarin (Utepacu te ko Tutu Bugarina) as if a killing like killing a tuta is something worse that killing someone in a usual way ... When I think a littile, it might be wrong wording in this: What it can be is: Utepacu te ko Tuta Bugarina, meaning: I will kill you in the same way as Tuta killed a Bulgarian... Probably there was some  Tuta that killed some Bulgarian in some horrible way...


----------



## domkrat

I think no-one has mentioned what we started to call our Polish brothers now:
"_пшек_" = Pole (often used on the internet)

Also:
"_узкоглазый_" = Chinese/Korean/East Asian
"_хач/хачик_" = from Caucasus region, especially Armenia (very offensive)

These two are not offensive at all:
"_басурманин_" (pl. "_басурманы_") = any foreigner
"_буржуй_", "_буржуин_" = businessman from the West (e.g. "буржуйская фирма")


Interestingly, some nation's proper names are used as pejorative epithets:

"_молдаванин_" (Moldavian) = very dumb and stubborn (some popular jokes)
"_чукча_" (Chukcha) = very dumb and naive (lots of popular jokes)
"_турок_" (Turk) = doing something in a wrong way
"_чех_" (Czech) = Chechen (during the Chechen war, similar to "_дух_" during Afgan war)


----------



## Saluton

Are you sure *чехи* and *пшеки* are pejorative?
And to my mind, *буржуи* would rather be defined as "people from the West, esp. ones involved in business".
Also, *черножопыe, *mentioned before,is applied to black people as well. In fact I think it's the primary meaning.


----------



## domkrat

Saluton said:


> Are you sure *чехи* and *пшеки* are pejorative?


Well, using such nicknames instead of proper names can  in itself be a little pejorative or condescening. Although not offending.
It's the same with "хохлы". For us it's more of a friendly nickname, but many Ukrainians consider it pejorative (but not offensive).



Saluton said:


> *буржуи* would rather be defined as "people from the West, esp. ones involved in business".


Yes, I agree


----------



## texpert

domkrat said:


> "_чех_" (Czech) = Chechen (during the Chechen war, similar to "_дух_" during Afgan war)
> 
> "_турок_" (Turk) = doing something in a wrong way


 

I've been told about *Czechs *being mistaken for *Chechens *before but it's the first time I hear it's been done deliberetely and by Russians. Could you possibly be more specific? 

(By the way, the most common meaning of *Turek *in CZ is _Turkish coffee_).


----------



## domkrat

texpert said:


> I've been told about *Czechs *being mistaken for *Chechens *before but it's the first time I hear it's been done deliberetely and by Russians. Could you possibly be more specific?


Well, it really has nothing to do with Czechs. It's only because it sounds a bit similar ("Che" - "Cze").
And this word "чехи" has spread probably because it reminds of the word "духи" (= "душманы") that was widely used during Afgan war, especially by the soldiers there.

Whether the word "чехи" was actually used by the soldiers fighting in Chechnya, I don't know. It could be an urban legend.


----------



## texpert

It is quite amusing any old how! Who was called *духи *in Afghanistan, Pashtuns or any local? And was it to describe their behaviour or something else? Thanks for broadening my outlook.


----------



## domkrat

texpert said:


> It is quite amusing any old how! Who was called *духи *in Afghanistan, Pashtuns or any local? And was it to describe their behaviour or something else? Thanks for broadening my outlook.



By the way, in case there are any doubts: *духи* literally means "spirits" in Russian, but this is certainly not why they were called this way. It could have contributed to the popularity of the word though.

I've heard it used mostly to refer to anyone fighting against the Soviets there. No ethnic distinction.
It's just soldier's jargon. They often just make up words.
A more "officially used" word was "душманы". So it was, apparently, transformed into *духи.*

The wiki says that _"dušman_" means "enemy" in the local language. I'm not an expert, so no idea if it's correct or not.


----------



## domkrat

Note that nobody actually calls Afgani people either "духи" or "душманы". It is strictly in the context of that war. And it was not meant to be offensive. Just a jargon.

On the other hand, "чехи" is now used on Chechens sometimes, and this is rather offensive.


----------



## texpert

Yes, I just looked it up. (дари دشمن — _dušman_ — враг).

No ambiguities here, see - "duch, duchové" - spirits in CZ as well. Now I think the *dušman-дух-чех-chechen *construction is fully clarified. 

It may be as far from Czechs as Kong (latter part of Viet-..) from King-Kong, still it will do for a fine New Year's Eve story.


----------



## texpert

domkrat said:


> On the other hand, "чехи" is now used on Chechens sometimes, and this is rather offensive.


 
I thought we were done with this and there you go again  Offensive for whom? Czechs, Chechens or both? How often is it used?


----------



## domkrat

texpert said:


> I thought we were done with this and there you go again  Offensive for whom? Czechs, Chechens or both? How often is it used?



How can it be offensive for Czechs? It's their proper name. 
Offensive for Chechens, of course.
It is used only by racist/xenophobic or otherwise not too mannerly sort of people.

P.S.
Ah! Maybe you mean that it should be offensive for Czechs that someone is using their good name on some Chechens?


----------



## domkrat

Ok, my last post on the subject of Czechs:

Here are two examples from google:

1. More or less "neutral" usage in the context of Chechen war:


> 11 декабря - День памяти русских солдат, погибших в Чечне
> На стороне "_чехов_" (не чеченцев, а именно "_чехов_") воевали не только ортодоксальные вахабиты - _чечены_, ингуши, алланы и дагестанцы, половина от этого сброда составляли наёмники со всех концов мира: арабы, негры, хорваты, американцы, украинцы, прибалты, и конечно же наши, русские-братоубийцы
> www.evangelie.ru/forum/t50328.html


2. Offensive usage:


> «БРАТИШКА» :: Просмотр темы - эти _чехи_ охренели
> Можно без конца говорить что _чечены_ плохие, и их всех надо пострелять, и вообще они в *...* так сразу ошалел от того, что здесь _чехи_ чувствуют себя как дома, *...*
> phorum.bratishka.ru/viewtopic.php?t=1851&start=25


----------



## texpert

Got it. The late hour, brain softening, and so on.. 

I don't think it should be offensive to Czechs. On the other hand, I don't know completely why it constitutes an offense to Chechens, so..

The latter remark brings to mind how the "white" locals in Azusa, Los Angeles, called the Mexican immigrants "French" everytime they complained about them just to avoid being accused of xenophoby. It went rather smoothly until it was necessary to explain it to somebody from France..


----------



## texpert

domkrat said:


> 2. Offensive usage:


 

I see. The Czech mafia feels at home in Moscow these days!


----------



## Saluton

domkrat said:


> Well, it really has nothing to do with Czechs. It's only because it sounds a bit similar ("Che" - "Cze").
> And this word "чехи" has spread probably because it reminds of the word "духи" (= "душманы").


_Cze_ and _Che_ sound the same in English, not "a bit similar". It's in Russian that the word *чехи* sounds similar to *чеченцы,* that's why it's used for Chechens as well. I can't agree it's derived from *духи* or anything else. Although Czechs are not to blame for it, of course, it's just a coincidence.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Croatians who have political disagreements with Slovenia sometimes refer to Slovenes as *Alpski Srbi* (Alpine Serbs); this is particularly common in online forums and the like.

Because of the events of the 1990s, many Croatians have a negative view of Serbs. The pejorative term "Alpski Srbi" therefore implies that Slovenes are as bad (or as much of Croatia's enemy) as the Serbs.


----------



## WannaBeMe

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Croatians who have political disagreements with Slovenia sometimes refer to Slovenes as *Alpski Srbi* (Alpine Serbs); this is particularly common in online forums and the like.
> 
> Because of the events of the 1990s, many Croatians have a negative view of Serbs. The pejorative term "Alpski Srbi" therefore implies that Slovenes are as bad (or as much of Croatia's enemy) as the Serbs.


 
Hahaha, it´s so funny. Sorry, but I want to sing again "Od Vardara pa do Triglava"


----------



## texpert

I looked up the band, song, its lyrics, Vardar and everything, still I didn't quite get why it was _funny_?


----------



## Kolan

Saluton said:


> It's in Russian that the word sounds similar to *чеченцы,* that's why it's used for Chechens as well. I can't agree it's derived from *духи* or anything else. Although Czechs are not to blame for it, of course, it's just a coincidence.


*чехи* for "воюющие *чеченцы*" (Chechen warriors) derived in the same manner that *духи* for *душманы* (воюющие афганцы, Afgan warriors). Praha (1968) events might be also a tip for naming Chechen rebels *чехи*, but I agree that this could happen only due to lexical coincidence.


----------



## Mišo

During the existence of Austro-Hungarian Empire, owing to any allowance to non-regnant nations as independent ones - imprisis to Slovaks in this case, was popular nickname, mancomunal from German, "Pempoláci" (böhmische Polen) for Slovaks. Absorbing.


----------



## werrr

I think this thread started with one big confusion of expressiveness and pejorativeness. That’s not the same, one should distinguish this properly.


----------



## Mišo

werrr said:


> I think this thread started with one big confusion of expressiveness and pejorativeness. That’s not the same, one should distinguish this properly.



Yes.
It is the matter of appraisal, what means what.


----------



## BezierCurve

Some more Polish ones:

brytol = Britishman; (not really offensive)
kanadol = Canadian, same as above;

Recently noticed:

irol, irys = Irishman, not really offensive, just easier than proper "Irlandczyk".

These names are _not really pejorative_, however, people tend to use _these_ terms rather than "official" names when criticizing or trying to offend other people.


----------



## texpert

werrr said:


> I think this thread started with one big confusion of expressiveness and pejorativeness. That’s not the same, one should distinguish this properly.


 
That is just what we're trying to do, I should think. Or did you imply we should continue under some other thread?


----------



## Heroj_MKD

In Macedonian we have:
Шваба, нациста= German  (Shvaba)
Циган(и)= Roma gypsie, greeks, bulgarians  (Cigan(i))
Татар(и)= Bulgarians  (Tatar(i))
Турак = Turkish  (Turak)
Ќумбе, Црнчуга = Black man  (Kjumbe)
Ќумбиња, Црнчуги = Black men  (Kjumbinja)
жолти, жути, (ж'ти) = people of Yellow race  (zholti, zhuti, zh'ti)
Ѓуптин = very dark skinned man, greek        (Gjuptin)
Ѓуптци = very dark skinned men, greeks      (Gjuptsi)
шиптар = Albanian       (Shiptar)
шкон, шконта = Albanian (shkon, Shkonta)
шошон = Albanian   (shoshon)  (like the us-native (indian) tribe)
Индијанец = Albanian  (Indijanec)
Јенки = US-American  (Jenki)
Каубоец = US-American   (Kauboec)
Четник= Serb   (Chetnik)
Сељак= Serb, can also be macedonian with provincial manners   (Seljak)
Сељачиште= the same like Сељак but stronger    (Seljachishte)
Усташ= Croat    (Ustash)
вахабиста, вехабиста = Albanians or muslims in gnereral  (vehabista, vahabista)
мусли= muslims in general   (musli)

All these words are HIGHLY OFFENSIVE !!!


----------



## Xopxe

A couple of derogative terms from Russian language:

америкосы - Americans (from USA),
чурбаны - non-Russian people from Caucasus or Central Asia,
олени - native people from Far North (like Chukchi) ,
пархатые, пейсатые -  Jews.

I`d prefer we forgot these terms eventually.


----------



## Xopxe

A couple of derogative terms from Ukrainian language:

москали, москальня, кацапи, кацапня - Russians,
жиди, жидовня - Jews,
пшеки, ляхи (more archaic) - Poles,
фріци, ганси, фашики - Germans,
нігери - Blacks,
цигани (literary Gypsies) - Romanians, Moldovans.

Цигани і молодовани being literary words for the Gypsies and the Moldovans are having pejorative meaning too.


----------



## Natabka

Xopxe said:


> A couple of derogative terms from Ukrainian language:
> 
> москалі, москальня, кацапи, кацапня - Russians,
> жиди, жидівня - Jews,
> пшеки, ляхи (more archaic) - Poles,
> фріци, ганси, фашики - Germans,
> нігери/ніґери - Blacks,
> цигани (literary Gypsies) - Romanians, Moldovans.
> 
> Цигани і молдавани being literary words for the Gypsies and the Moldovans are having pejorative meaning too.



Let me make a few minor spelling corrections . And I wanted also to ask you about цигани and молдавани - do they really have pejorative meaning? Could you give an example or some explanation, please? I didn't know this.


----------



## texpert

Heroj_MKD said:


> In Macedonian we have:
> шошон = Albanian (shoshon) (like the us-native (indian) tribe)
> Индијанец = Albanian (Indijanec)


 
How this Indian connection to Albanians came out to be? Is it more humourous or blashemous?


----------



## Kanes

The view on albanians is as uncivilized, mumbling, dirty... thats the conection.


----------



## Heroj_MKD

Нигер= Black man (niger)
Балиста=Albanian (balista)  During WWII the Albanian military forces were called as Ballisti.
фашиста= German (fashista)
Синови на Сталин = Sons of Stalin/ Bulgarian (sinovi na Stalin) 		



texpert said:


> How this Indian connection to Albanians came out to be? Is it more humourous or blashemous?


The nation Albania consists of two tribes. The Toska (south Albania, Macedonia mostly christians catholics and orthodox) and the Gegi (north Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia, mostly muslims).
Macedonians give them US-Indian names, because they want to live seperate and most of them don't want to be integrated into macedonian society, but live with their own traditions and society. So both societies live next to each other but do not mix. So there is no real friendship between both. macedonians go out with macedonians and other christians (turks are the only muslims), and albanians (of the Gegi tribe, which is most present) only with albanians (of the Gegi tribe) or other muslmis(but rare). It's very rare that albanians have made friendship with macedonians, but they do exist. And those albanians don't want to have Albanian friends, because for them they are primitives. They live like Indians in their reservation. therefore the US-Indian Names. And Shoshon sounds much like Albanian spelling aswell shkon and shkonta


----------



## Diaspora

First remember, this is a linguistics forum, so I will just list what I heard, remember that these are pejorative. I'll list the term and than an explanation of the origin.

Serbs: Chetniks (from royalist paramilitary), Vlah (authentic Balkans people who were Romanized, many of them assimilated into Serbs)

Croats: Ustasha (fascist army during WW2)

Slavic Muslims: Turks (because they left Christianity), balija (not sure about the origin)

Bulgarians: Tartari

Slovenians: Janezi (from the name Janez), I also heard "Yugo-jews"

Germans/Austrians: Svabe (Swabians)

Albanians: Siptari (mean Albanian in Albanian, why is it insulting?)

Italians: Zabari (frog eaters)


----------



## Kolan

I have to add that, besides the fact that, as discussed above, Russians would call pejoratively *Chechens* - *чехи *and *Afgans* - *духи*, the proper names for those peoples ("*чеченцы*" and "*афганцы*", respectively) are now commonly accepted as colloquial names for Russian soldiers who were sent to fight there.


----------



## texpert

Heroj_MKD said:


> They live like Indians in their reservation. therefore the US-Indian Names. And Shoshon sounds much like Albanian spelling aswell shkon and shkonta


 
I see. Do they know you calling them like that? 

I reminds me of an old joke passed to me some time ago. 

_A Roma family comes to the posh restaurant and a headwaiter asks them: Do you have a reservation? _
_Why, says the head of the family, do we look like Indians? _


----------



## Kanes

How come the 'tatari' came to be used in Yugoslavia for us? Tatars were muslims in Russia who began speaking Turkik language after the 12th century and the Mongol invasion there. Its anachronistic and it seems strange. Whats the connection/origen?


----------



## WannaBeMe

Kanes said:


> How come the 'tatari' came to be used in Yugoslavia for us? Tatars were muslims in Russia who began speaking Turkik language after the 12th century and the Mongol invasion there. Its anachronistic and it seems strange. Whats the connection/origen?


 
Honestly I have never heard that somebody calls Bulgarians Tatari, never in my life. I live next to Croactia but anyway, I would know it if yes.


----------



## WannaBeMe

Diaspora said:


> Slavic Muslims: Turks (because they left Christianity), balija (not sure about the origin)


 
Balija is a Turkish or Moslem uneducated person; what we woud say  "seljačina" for.


----------



## Heroj_MKD

WannaBeMe said:


> Honestly I have never heard that somebody calls Bulgarians Tatari, never in my life. I live next to Croactia but anyway, I would know it if yes.


Well I don't know how serbs and croats are naming them, but macedonians are saying that they are Tatars. Why??? I can only suppose why it could be.
The first Bulgarians tribes came from that region where Tatarstan is nowadays. the first Bulgarian kings until their christianisation had still their title Khan, which is Mongolian, Turk origin, I don't know exactly but clearly of Asian origins. Most famous Bulgarian Khan, Asparuh invaded Thrace (Bulgaria today) and slughtered Thracians, aswell Byzantines(the term Byzantine is not a nation, but every nation within the empire).


texpert said:


> I see. Do they know you calling them like that?
> 
> I reminds me of an old joke passed to me some time ago.
> 
> _A Roma family comes to the posh restaurant and a headwaiter asks them: Do you have a reservation? _
> _Why, says the head of the family, do we look like Indians? _


I don't know. As I said Macedonians and Albanians live side by side,but do not mix each other. A communication a business relation do exist but no real friendship.Some sure know of them and some not.
The term reservation is not from me. you have to know the situation. In the cities they built their own ghettos where only Albanians live. Macedonians settle in another part of the city, when they see that more and more Albanians settle in that area, because prices fall of real estate when somebody of them settle in that area. It's a pitty that a lot of people still have prejudices, but a lot of Albanians are involved in crimes, so parents don't want to live next to criminals and grow up their children there because they are afraid that one day their children might be drug addicts (what is nonsense), or that something could happen to them. In school kids are still fighting each other. It's a problem of wrong education dictated by E.U.  The Ohrid agreement of 2001 allows seperation instead of integration. So most Albanians want their children to go in school in Albanian education not in Macedonian. So in school there are two parallel classes Macedonians(with other minorities) and Albanians (and only Albanians). this case is where Albanian poulation is at least 20%. so Albanians and Macedonian kids have no real communication with each other where they can communicate and make friendship. this was not the case until 2001.


----------



## iobyo

Heroj_MKD said:


> Нигер Негар= Black man (nigger)
> Балиста=Albanian (balista)  During WWII the Albanian military forces were called as Ballisti.
> фашиста= German (fashista)



_Н__игер_ is the country.

_Фашиста_ and _балиста_ are morphological Serbisms—Macedonian has _фашист_, _балист_, etc.—but common in speech (especially when used as an insult, but almost never for Germans).

_Балист_ comes from "Balli Kombëtar". I haven't, however, ever heard it used in a pejorative sense for ethnic Albanians, only in a historical context.


----------



## Heroj_MKD

I appreciate the corrections, but no one is speaking негар. нигер is how poeple are saying it in the common language, by watching English movies it is adopted by all people as нигер. It is also correct that Нигер is a name of an African country. The serbisms in the language for the Albanians are intended because of the hate between Albanians and Serbs, so they feel more offended. I know that you are from Bitola aswell as my father is and he always corrects me for the correct pronounciation in Macedonian, but common language is not literature 'official' language. And pejorative words are spoken in common language therefore I used the terms people do speak not in the 'official'. and I've never heard the word "негар". Maybe it's usual in Bitola but nowhere else in Macedonia. Hollywood has too much influence in this case. Maybe we can make a compromise and call it "ниггер".


----------



## Darina

Kanes said:


> How come the 'tatari' came to be used in Yugoslavia for us? Tatars were muslims in Russia who began speaking Turkik language after the 12th century and the Mongol invasion there. Its anachronistic and it seems strange. Whats the connection/origen?


 
Moreover, the Tatar minority in Bulgaria came around the end of 19 century. I am fed up of explaining that the Volga Bulgarians mixed with the Tatars a few centuries after Great Bulgaria split in two. So, no real connection but Tatars are nice people anyway.

Усташ= Croat 
Шумаджии= Serbian
Маке= Macedonian
But honesty, I don't think these are really pejorative. 
The worst words we have about Greeks and especially Turks, mentioned above.


----------



## jbird74

WannaBeMe said:


> Very interesting topic, winpoj.
> In my dialect, which is also standard of BCS there is not to many pejorative words for the members of other nations. Well, this pejoratives would exist just for people with whom we had wars in the past.
> *Svabo*-German (njemac) (I don´t know why, perhaps becouse many of "Schwaben" lived in Vojvodina or becouse of occupation of Bosnia);
> *Siptar*-Albanian (albanac) (Siptars call themselves this way, but if we say it is offence);
> *Turcin*-this is interesting one! It means just Turk, but at almost every Serb this word is sayed with disgust or contempt. Many Serbs say so also to Bosnian Moslems but this time without contempt;
> *Vlah*-Moslems call Serbs this way,this has older origins, but for Serbs this word means aboriginal, old-timer or similar. Serbs call Romanians this way very often (without atempting to offence them).
> 
> The three next are common after the new war in Yugoslavia:
> *B**alija*-Serbs and some Croats say for Bosnian Moslems (but also before the war);
> *Cetnik*-Craoats and Moslems say it for Serbs with despite (after the War), but many Serbs don´t offence, many of them like it;
> *Ustasa*-Serbs and Moslems say it for Croats with despite (also after the war). Possibly many Croats don´t offence and feel proud;  In some areas is *Sokac* (from Ital. sciocca-dumb,idiot) or *Purger* (Croats from Zagrab) for Croats ment also with a little bit despite;
> *Kosooki*-Asians;
> *Crnjo, Crncuga*-Black people;
> 
> I don´t think that we have any other pejoratives for any (other) slavic nation or any other nation out of Ex-Yugoslavia.
> I beg my other "Yugosi"-friends to correct me if I´m wrong or sth. misses.



I disagree with that, in Croatia most people will be offended


----------



## jbird74

Asians can be called - Žuti (eng. Yellow)


----------



## jbird74

Cigan - Tsigan / Gipsy, it can be offence for most BCS

In Croatia nice word Tsigan would be "Rom" but they don't mind if you call person Cigan if he/she is Tsigan / Gipsy.


----------



## Maja

Written in full Latinic: 


WannaBeMe said:


> *Švabo *(A)
> *Šiptar*
> *Turčin*
> *Četnik*
> *Ustaša*
> *Crnjo *(A)*, Crnčuga* (also Čamuga, coll.)


Also:
*Žutać, Žuti *- Yellow race
*Ciganin, Cigan* (PC term is Rom / Romkinja) - Gypsy
*Ješa*, **Židov, **Žid *- Jew
*Musli* *(coll.) - Muslim
*Amer*** - American

 *not really offensive, but it might be, depending on speaker's intentions
**not offensive


----------



## WannaBeMe

Maja said:


> Written in full Latinic:
> Also:
> *Žutać, Žuti *- Yellow race
> *Ciganin, Cigan* (PC term is Rom / Romkinja) - Gypsy
> *Ješa*, **Židov, **Žid *- Jew
> *Amer*** - American
> *Musli* *(coll.) - Muslim
> 
> *not really offensive, but it might be, depending on speaker's intentions
> **not offensive


 
Židov s realy offensive, I didnt know that? I dont even know any other name for a jew.


----------



## Maja

WannaBeMe said:


> Židov s realy offensive, I didnt know that? I dont even know any other name for a jew.


 The correct word is Jevrejin (m.) / Jevrejka (f.). Židov is the word Croats use, but I think that is not PC anymore (wait for natives to confirm).


----------



## Ratgar

Szymon Krulikowski said:


> some more in Polish:
> (...)
> Hungarian - Bratanek, Madżiar
> (...)
> I think that only _Bratanek_ (seems positive)and _Starozakonny _aren't pejorative. Maybe _Madżiar _is neutral too.



Bratanek doesn't seem negative. I can see how it could be used in a sarcastic way though, especially since there is some historic closeness between Polish and Hungarian people.


----------



## Mišo

Ratgar said:


> Bratanek doesn't seem negative. I can see how it could be used in a sarcastic way though, especially since there is some historic closeness between Polish and Hungarian people.



"bratanek Węgier" is by no manner of means considered a reproachful word. 
This attribute is descend from fabled mental Polish - Hungarian brotherhood.


----------



## andrejkaita

In czech too:

Pšonk = polish
Žabožrout = french
Skopčák = german

Any idea why we call "pšonk" our polish brothers?


----------



## Mišo

andrejkaita said:


> Any idea why we call "pšonk" our polish brothers?


No idea. 
Nothing but *psiąk* (lapdog), pl. psiąki (I'm not sure if it's literary) is phonetically quite convenient to "pšonk".
Even thought I do not think this is the reason.


----------



## Ratgar

I don't think this has been mentioned, but Черножопые in Russian refer to Georgians (lit. Black assed). It can be also used for any nationality with dark skin.



WannaBeMe said:


> Židov s realy offensive, I didnt know that? I dont even know any other name for a jew.



In Russian, Жид is offensive. I have a Polish friend who said that Żyd is what they call Jews, but I want some confirmation on this.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Ratgar said:


> In Russian, Жид is offensive. I have a Polish friend who said that Żyd is what they call Jews, but I want some confirmation on this.


 
In Slovenian, *Žid* used to be the standard, non-offensive word for Jews. However, precisely because this word is highly pejorative in Russian and several other languages, Slovenia's Jewish community now prefers the word *Jud*. Most media outlets now use *Jud*, although the adjective *židovski* is still fairly common (in addition to *judovski*).

By the way, both Ljubljana and Maribor have streets named *Židovska ulica* (Jewish Street).


----------



## texpert

In Czech, *Žid* is the completely neutral expression (similarly, Prague has the *Židovské město*). On the other hand, when it's pronounced with a _smirk _or _a twisted smile _on a face, it can easily get the derogatary meaning, as with _žiďák_. 
I gather (but am not sure at all) it is similar with Polish.


----------



## Piotr_WRF

In Polish, _żyd_ (noun) and _żydowski_ (adjective) are the neutral and only possible expressions referring to a _Jew_ and _Jewish_. Of course, you can say everything with a smile and ironic undertone, but that's not the point here.


----------



## sokol

TriglavNationalPark said:


> Most media outlets now use *Jud*, although the adjective *židovski* is still fairly common (in addition to *judovski*).


I have learned a new Slovenian word. 
This has to be a rather new development; in mid-1990ies I didn't notice this, it was still _Žid _then.

_Jud _by the way would be the Jiddish term (and of course a cognate of German _Jude)._


----------



## AleksM

Hello everyone!
Interesting topic.  Let me give my contribution to it (Croatian side).
In Croatia, "Židovi" is a legal term for Jews (don't know if it ever was offensive), even the Jews in Croatia call themselves that way (see the pages of Židovska općina Zagreb ("Jewish Community Zagreb")).
We have similar word to Serbian hellenized term "Jevrej" (it's Latin counterpart "Hebrej"), but it's used mostly for Israeli Jews, while "Židov" is a term for Jews in common. 
Well, as already told by other members of the forum from ex-YU, in Croatian there are not many pejorative words for peoples with whom we haven't live together, or haven't  been neighbours, or hadn't disputes (or wars). So, the list is similar to other ex-Yu languages (and even Bulgarian, as I see) and is reserved to the peoples of ex-YU and the neighbouring peoples :

Former YU:
*Četnik* - *Serb*; the origin of the word is (I believe) well known, so I don't want to repeat it (only if someone on this forum wants it). WannaBeMe stated that many Serbs like that name and are "proud" of it, but that might be true to Serbs from Serbia only; believe me, to many Serbs (if not to all) in Croatia this term is highly offensive; the same applies to term *Ustaša*, which is considered highly offensive by most Croats (except the ultra-nacionalists, who are equally "proud" of it, as their Serbian counterparts).
*Balija* - used for *Bosniak Moslems*, very offensive; as to answer Diaspora's question, the term was originally (someone correct me if I'm wrong) used by Serbs for ethnic (Kosovo) Albanians back in the 1980's and comes from "Balli Kombëtar" (see Wikipedia), but became widespread pejorative for Bosniak Moslems during the wars in 1990's.
The term *Turci *(lit. "_Turks_") is also heard sometimes, but not as common as by Serbs.
There's also word *muslići* (a pejorative diminutive of "*Musliman*", a Moslem), denoting both Bosniak Muslims in particular, and Moslems in general, but is not considered as offensive as the previous two terms.
The term *Bosančeros *(resembling the _Comancheros_) is sometimes also used, but for all citizens of Bosnia, regardless of their ethnicity. This term is used mostly in funny context in the meaning "a Hillbilly from Bosnia". Even some Bosnians use that term in self-ironic way (notably a Bosnian singer DJ Krmak, who made a song called "Eros Bosančeros").
*Šiptar* - as in other South Slavic languages, the name comes from Albanian name for Albanians (Shqiperi - actually pronounced "Šćiperi"), but is considered quite offensive by Albaninas, if said by a non-Albanian to them; it is used pejorativelly, the official Croatian word is "*Albanac */ pl. *Albanci*".
*Slovenians* - there were not many pejorative words for Slovenians, until recently ; the most common was *Janezi* (that was explained) not having that pejorative sound. Because of the recent Croatian-Slovenian disputes, there are now more sinister words in use: *Alpski Srbi* is one of them (as said by Triglav), and a new word, used in the last year or two: *Zlovenci* (from "_Slovenci" _(Slovenians) + "_Zlo"_ = "_Evil_" )
*Kekec* is also used sometimes, but seldom.
*Cigani* - as in other Slavic languages, word for *Gypsies*, not taken that offensively by the Romani people, as the word "Šiptari" by Albanians, but the word has also a more common meaning for any person who is dishonest, treacherous and loves to steal (that way used, still *IS* offensive to Romanis). This word is, of course, used only colloquially, the offical Croatian word being *Rom* / pl. *Romi*.
*Đetići *(Djetići) - word sometimes used for *Montenegrins* (Croat. official: *Crnogorac*, *Crna Gora *= Montenegro), because of their extensive use of the same word in colloquial speech meaning something like "_lad", "young man", "boy"_ or any young one. Not used pejoratively, more as a funny name.

There's also a pejorative way to call someone as being <its_former_ruler>'s _*konjušar*_ (eng. _hostler_, _equerry_); for example Serbs are that way called *Turski konjušari* (Turkish hostlers) and Slovenians *Bečki konjušari* (*Beč *- BCS word for Vienna, derived from Hungarian *Becs*). This is used to denote someone as being a sub-servant, or slave, of his worse masters, or someone who is no good for anything else, but to be someone else's hostler. I heard some Serbs use the term *Bečki konjušari *to denote Croats, or Croats and Slovenes together.

Of all ex-YU peoples, there are no pejorative words for Macedonians - many Croats have simpathies for them and consider them mostly benevolant, peaceful people, who never waged a war against their neighbours (and most importantly, not aganist Croats ).

Just a remark on the word *Vlah *(pl. *Vlasi*) - the Serbs called that way *Romanians*, and one of the Romanian regions is indeed called "Valahia" (or "Walachia"); notably, the (in)famous Vlad Tepes a.k.a Dracula was Walachian; next, many Croats use the same name for Serbs in pejorative way (mostly Croatian nationalist intellectuals, to denote that the Serbs were originally not Slavic people, but some "barbaric" people, who later took Slavic name and language) and now I see that the Czechs use that word for Greeks! Funny thing. 
In the same time, there's a regional usage of the same word in Dalmatia (locally: *Vlaj*, pl. *Vlaji*) for anyone (regardless of ethnicity) living in the Dalmatian background (not on the coast). This word is used as a geographical term to denote anyone living in Dalmatia "without seeing the sea" (i.e. in the background, beyond the coastal mountains), but also more pejoratively by the coastal Dalmatians for the background Dalmatians as being "primitive", "rural", "rednecks", etc.

Other nations:
*Švabe* - this is the only pejorative word for Germans, the origin had been explained already.
*Žabari* - in Croatian, this words denotes both *Italians *and *French*, because of the common prejudices (prejudices? ) of their strange cuisine; there's is also word *digići *for Italians, but it's used mostly in Zagreb area, and I don't know its true meaning or origin.
*Tuta Bugarin* is indeed a name sometimes used for *Bulgarians*, the name itself I think comes from a comedy movie during the SFRY, but I don't know the name of it. But it is more funny than pejorative and used not so often. No-one in Croatia calls Bulgarians *Tatars*, I think this name is being used by Macedonians only.

Funny thing is that, despite centuries-long rule and oppression of Austrians and Hungarians over Croats, I can't remember any pejorative word for them (which was not the case only century ago)! That only proves that many pejoratives depend on the time and political context they are used in, so when a threat (real or imaginative) from someone ends, so do the pejorative words fade and become obsolete. 

There's also a pejorative word used for any inhabitants of the third world countries (mostly African and Asian, not Americas): *musavi *(meaning "dirty face"), but pointing more to the poor living and hygienic conditions, rather than the colour of their skin.
The word *crnčuga* is used pejoratively (as in other South Slavic languages) for the black people, being quite offensive;

Other than those, I think there are no pejorative words for other Slavic or any other peoples. Some other Croatian speaker correct me if I'm wrong.
If anyone offended - I'm sorry, but that's the reality we all live in, and I'm just writting what I've heard of people speak. Let us try *not* to use those words very often (or at all)...


----------



## winpoj

> ... and now I see that the Czechs use that word for Greeks!



I am not aware of that. Where did you find such usage?


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

AleksM said:


> The word *crnčuga* is used pejoratively (as in other South Slavic languages) for the black people, being quite offensive;


 
This term isn't used in Slovenian.

While it wasn't always pejorative, *zamorec* or *zamorc* (*za* = beyond, *morje* = the sea; i.e. "someone who comes from beyond the [Mediterranean] sea") is considered a highly pejorative term for a black person nowadays.

On the other hand, *črnec* (equivalent to *crnac* in BCS) is fairly neutral. *Temnopolt* (adj.; *temna* = dark, *polt* = skin) is the most politically correct term.


----------



## AleksM

winpoj said:


> I am not aware of that. Where did you find such usage?



In this post:



kusurija said:


> In Czech:
> as to gypsies: Morgoš (strongly pejorative!)
> _or _Američan z Vysočan (Američan refers to more dark skin; Vysočany - a city part of Prague, where used live more members of working class, than in other Prague's parts).
> Hungarian: Vengroš (rare)
> A name of potato in Czech: brambory - came from Gremans tribe name (Branderburgians - Braniboři -> brambory.
> *Vlach, Valach ~ Greece*


----------



## AleksM

TriglavNationalPark said:


> This term isn't used in Slovenian.
> 
> While it wasn't always pejorative, *zamorec* or *zamorc* (*za* = beyond, *morje* = the sea; i.e. "someone who comes from beyond the [Mediterranean] sea") is considered a highly pejorative term for a black person nowadays.
> 
> On the other hand, *črnec* (equivalent to *crnac* in BCS) is fairly neutral. *Temnopolt* (adj.; *temna* = dark, *polt* = skin) is the most politically correct term.



Ok, my mistake. I should have said: "in *other BCS *languages..."

Btw. I never thought you guys have an expression like "češka roba" or such for any low quality wares... I remember that Czechs, and even more Polaks did come during the 1980's to ex-Yugoslavia (even to my town, Osijek) to sell their goods, and that goods were cheap and low quality, but there was never such an expression used in Croatia (at least, I never heard of it).  And we never went to Czechoslovakia for a shopping tourism during the communist times. We mostly went to Hungary (for food and household goods), from obvious reasons, because we border it, and to Trieste in Italy, for clothes (jeans mostly) and electronics - computers, audio units etc. (although the custom for the later was enormous in the ex-yu, if you remember, so we mostly smuggle it in the country... ;-)). I guess CS was too far away (so that the travel costs beat in the end the price differences), and in the end, they came to sell to us...


----------



## winpoj

I strongly suspect Kusurija's opinion is wrong.

Has any other native Czech speaker heard the words "Vlach" or "Valach" referring to Greeks?


----------



## Džandža

I would just like to add the pejorative word "bula" for a Muslim woman. It's used in Bosnia and Serbia, that I know of.


----------



## texpert

winpoj said:


> I strongly suspect Kusurija's opinion is wrong.
> 
> Has any other native Czech speaker heard the words "Vlach" or "Valach" referring to Greeks?


 
Not, just about inhabitants of Wallachia in Romania. But there is (or was?) supposed to be a minority of Greeks in there though I don't know anything more.


----------



## werrr

winpoj said:


> I strongly suspect Kusurija's opinion is wrong.
> 
> Has any other native Czech speaker heard the words "Vlach" or "Valach" referring to Greeks?


No, “Vlach” is Italian for me.


----------



## musicalchef

Džandža said:


> I would just like to add the pejorative word "bula" for a Muslim woman. It's used in Bosnia and Serbia, that I know of.



This isn't always pejorative though, right?  Doesn't it also just refer to a female religious teacher (female equivalent of hodža)?  Now I'm really curious.  

Because I wear hidžab, the director of the hotel I was staying at when I first got here (Sarajevo), called me a "prava bula" once.  But I know he was just teasing me (he's a religious man himself).  I didn't realize it could have a pejorative meaning in other contexts though.


----------



## sokol

texpert said:


> Not, just about inhabitants of Wallachia in Romania. But there is (or was?) supposed to be a minority of Greeks in there though I don't know anything more.


There are regions in the Balkans where I _think _"Vlach" can refer to members of the Orthodox Church, previously thought of as "Greeks", and it might be that for some, on the Balkans, "Vlach" still could mean "Greek". (And as such it would certainly be pejorative.)

But I would be surprised if this meaning also were present in Czech, also considering werrr:


werrr said:


> No, “Vlach” is Italian for me.


"Vlach" in many languages somehow refers to "Romance" people, used by both Germanic and Slavic peoples. So "Vlach - Italian" don't sounds odd at all.

Only on the Balkans "Vlach" became associated with Non-Romance people: originally the term was used for Eastern Romance sheperds, quite some of them living a half-nomadic life (with summer and winter quarters - called transhumance).
In some regions then the term "Vlach" changed its meaning - to mean people who live like that, without regard to the language they speak: thus it came that "Vlach" could mean something else than a Romance people.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

In Slovenian, both *Lah* and *Vlah* once referred to Italians*. The former is still a pejorative term for Italians, while the latter has essentially the same meaning as in BCS.

* The presence of toponyms like Laško indicates that the term was, at an even earlier time, used to describe all Romance people.


----------



## Piotr_WRF

AleksM said:


> I remember that Czechs, and even more *Polaks* did come during the 1980's to ex-Yugoslavia [...]



This is another racial slur, though this time an English one .


----------



## Heroj_MKD

AleksM said:


> Hello everyone!
> Of all ex-YU peoples, there are no pejorative words for Macedonians - many Croats have simpathies for them and consider them mostly benevolant, peaceful people, who never waged a war against their neighbours (and most importantly, not aganist Croats ).



I agree totally with you otherwise its the same.
Maybe because we are not neighbours  , but that we have the word Ustasa for Croats is due to the war you had with the Serbs. But its not meant offensive in Macedonian when you say to a Croat ustasa. For a Macedonian its more like a joke. the same for the Germans. Macedonians have no pejorative words for Slovenians aswell. We consider them mostly as wannabe Germans or Austrians. sometimes for Croats aswell (due to TV and so on and that the Croats officially don't want to be compared with other Balkan states (especially with those who were under Turkish rule ). but deeply in your heart your Balkanmentality is still living.

For the rest of the Macedonian words I early mentioned is offensive (especially for the neighbouring countries and the poor Africans).


----------



## Trent Reznor

Hey everyone, I just wanted to add one more word that I heard recently and which is apparently gaining more and more popularity among Serbian people online:

*Kroasani* for Croats (because Croat sounds kinda similar to croissant)

Btw, great topic.


----------



## mugibil

> Only on the Balkans "Vlach" became associated with Non-Romance people



Not really. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walha. Actually, the word was used for Celts just as much; apparently, it was a Germanic term for everyone who didn't speak Germanic (Celtic and Romance speakers alike). "Wales" is of the same origin, used by a Germanic people (the Anglo-Saxons) to refer to a Celtic people (the original Britons, including the Welsh). The name of the Gauls (also a Celtic people) is of the same origin, and was also given by their Germanic neighbours who invaded them. It's strange they never called us Slavs "Walha"; instead, they actually persuaded us to call other peoples that.


----------



## Awwal12

Kolan said:


> I have to add that, besides the fact that, as discussed above, Russians would call pejoratively *Chechens* - *чехи *and *Afgans* - *духи*, the proper names for those peoples ("*чеченцы*" and "*афганцы*", respectively) are now commonly accepted as colloquial names for Russian soldiers who were sent to fight there.


The word "духи" is more general, I believe; this word was extensively used in the last Chechen wars as well. On the other hand, the word "дух" is used towards an armed enemy, but not towards every representative of Chechen or Aphgan nations. Unlike it, "чех" can be used towards any male Chechen.


----------



## mugibil

In Bulgarian, Gypsies are derogatively referred to as мангали. I wonder if it could originate from Romani mangav "I want", but it's more likely to come from the other meaning of мангал, "charcoal-pan", the idea being that they are black. Less common words for Gypsies that I've heard are:

печки (stoves): the idea is that they are black like stoves
мангасари: apparently a variation on мангали
индианци: very uncommon, but I've heard it a couple of times. The idea is that they are wild like Indians in Wild West movies, and we Bulgarians are white cowboys.
джагатайци: heard it once in reference to Gypsies; usually a word for a "obscure" nationalities in general, e.g. for Africans. Apparently comes from the Mongol/Turkic Chagatai (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chagatai).

We also have a derogative plural suffix -оля, only for Greeks and Turks: гърчоля and турчоля. Фанариоти (a reference to the influential Greek families of the Istanbul quarter Fener during Turkish rule on the Balkans http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fener) is occasionally used for the Greeks under the influence of history classes at school.


----------



## mugibil

Kaner:


> How come the 'tatari' came to be used in Yugoslavia for us? Tatars were muslims in Russia who began speaking Turkik language after the 12th century and the Mongol invasion there. Its anachronistic and it seems strange. Whats the connection/origen?



As mentioned above, it's a Macedonian reference to the Bulgars, the invading non-Slavic people who founded Bulgaria in the early Middle Ages. The connection is that the Bulgars are supposed to have been a migrating Turkic people akin to the Tatars (although Bulgarian historians have recently started to dispute that), and in addition that the modern Volga Tatars are at least partly descended from the Bulgars. The intended offensiveness stems from the fact that the Tatars became something of a scourge on the Balkans in the late Middle Ages, and both Macedonian and Bulgarian popular historiography presents them in a bad light. 

kener:


> Tatars were muslims in Russia who began speaking Turkik language after the 12th century and the Mongol invasion there.


It's the other way round. The Muslim Volga Bulgar population is believed to have been Turkic-speaking already before the Mongol conquest. The name "Tatars", on the other hand, was adopted as a consequence of the Mongol invasion.


----------



## winpoj

I have discovered one which I think is missing here: "Pšonci" for Poles. I've never heard it before today but a quick web search shows it is used by some. Do you know this one and how pejorative is it in your opinion?


----------



## Awwal12

winpoj said:


> I have discovered one which I think is missing here: "Pšonci" for Poles. I've never heard it before today but a quick web search shows it is used by some. Do you know this one and how pejorative is it in your opinion?


That strongly reminds me Russian "пшеки" (psh*e*ki) with the same meaning.


----------



## Maja

musicalchef said:


> This isn't always pejorative though, right?  Doesn't it also just refer to a female religious teacher (female equivalent of hodža)?  Now I'm really curious.


Hmm, I never heard it being used for a female religious teacher. My dictionary just says: 'Muslim woman'.
And as far as I could tell, the usage of the word by non-Muslims, in most of the cases, used to have slightly negative connotation.
I am not sure how the situation is in today's Sarajevo though...



AleksM said:


> Just a remark on the word *Vlah *(pl. *Vlasi*)  - many Croats use the same name for Serbs in pejorative way (mostly  Croatian nationalist intellectuals, to denote that the Serbs were  originally not Slavic people, but some "barbaric" people, who later took  Slavic name and language)


 Really? Didn't  know that...


----------



## DenisBiH

Maja said:


> Hmm, I never heard it being used for a female religious teacher. My dictionary just says: 'Muslim woman'.
> And as far as I could tell, the usage of the word by non-Muslims, in most of the cases, used to have slight negative connotation.
> I am not sure how the situation is in today's Sarajevo though...




I believe the use is different among Bosnian speakers, especially those that practice Islam - it does refer to a female Muslim religious teacher or a religiously educated woman. For me the below definition in bold represents the primary meaning:



> bula im. ž. r. (tur.) - muslimanska vjeroučiteljica;* vjerski obrazovana muslimanka koja za žene obavlja izvjesne vjerske dužnosti*


(Rječnik bosanskog jezika, Institut za jezik Sarajevo)


This is the meaning HJP cites here, though it can also have a meaning similar to yours, a (covered) Muslim woman, as explained here. I personally wouldn't use it in this second sense and would prefer descriptive terms such as adjective pokrivena "covered" or the noun sestra "sister".

Bula for me is e.g. a person you call to a female Muslim religious gathering to recite the Qur'an.


----------



## marco_2

mcibor said:


> In Polish, as winpoj said:
> Czech - Pepiczek
> Chinese - Kitajec
> Asian race - Żółtek
> German - Szwab, Szkop
> Russian - Rusek, Kacap
> French - Żabojad
> English - Angol
> Latino American - Latynos, for you Tagarela
> Italian - Makaroniarz
> American - Jankes
> White race - Białas
> Black race - Czarnuch
> 
> most are pejorative, only Latynos is neutral.


 
We also use *Niemra *for a German woman, it is very offensive. And I guess that the Russian word *пшеки  *or Czech *pšonci *for Poles is connected with the sound of our language, full of *prz-, trz- *etc.


----------



## Maroseika

> Chinese - Kitajec


Russian китаец is quite neutral. How came Polish word became pejorative?




marco_2 said:


> And I guess that the Russian word *пшеки  *or Czech *pšonci *for Poles is connected with the sound of our language, full of *prz-, trz- *etc.


"Herr general Wimpfen, le comte de Langeron, le prince de Lichtenstein, le prince de Hohenloe et enfin Prsch... prsch... et ainsi de suite, comme tous les noms polonais" (L. Tolstoy, War and peace).


----------



## marco_2

Maroseika said:


> Russian китаец is quite neutral. How came Polish word became pejorative?


 
Because *китаец  *is a foreign word and it is so different from Polish *Chińczyk*. The same was with the word *Jewrej *- Polish Jews called in such a way the Jews from Russia. And in Polish "a Jew" is "Żyd", which sounds offensive in Russian, although there was someone like "жид вечный скиталец"


----------



## Lars H

Hej

About Walha


mungu said:


> Actually, the word was used for Celts just as much; apparently, it was a Germanic term for everyone who didn't speak Germanic (Celtic and Romance speakers alike).



This make perfectly good sense to me. In Norse geography the term "Valland" was a label on all the Celt and Romance speaking areas in continental Europe (appr AD 800-1000). Our slavic neigbours were mainly Vendland in south/southeast and Gardariki (connoted to Russian город) in the east. I do not know what the inhabitants were called, but probably not "Walha".
Moreso, there are a few placenames in todays Germany commencing with "Welsch-". They are all situated in the west, suspisiously close to the Rhine and to French speaking areas. In the eastern parts you can instead find placenames on "Wendisch". But no "Welsch-" as far as I know.

"Walha" is found in today's Swedish language in expressions like "rotvälska" (gibberish) and "välska seder" meaning, slightly pejorative, "manners of the South".


----------



## DenisBiH

Lars H said:


> "Walha" is found in today's Swedish language in expressions like "rotvälska" (gibberish) and "*välska seder*" meaning, slightly pejorative, "*manners of the South*".



Interesting. There exists in Bosnian a very pejorative word that is sometimes used to refer to "ways/manners/abode of the Serbs" - *vlahaluk*. Similar pejorative formations exist for Croats/Catholics (*latinluk*) and Bosniaks/Muslims (*baliluk*). An example from a Sarajevo daily newspaper, Oslobođenje:



> Sve ono što čak i na najbenigniji način prijeti da ugrozi puritanizam ideološke indoktrinacije javno se proglašava naslijeđem komunizma, a unutar četiri zida, vulgaran kontekst u kojem dominiraju *vlahaluk, baliluk, latinluk*.


----------



## DenisBiH

Bosnian / BCS:

Not really a term used on its own, but something I read/hear from time to time used pejoratively to refer to the English - _pjegav(i)_ meaning "freckled". Sometimes accompanied by _ružni_ "ugly", _žuti_ "yellow", _riđi_ "rufous" and _crveni_ "red". Some examples from Google search.


Some more terms which are not really pejorative, but are slang. They can be used neutrally, or even endearingly.

Russians - _Ruje_,_ baćuške_ (sing. _baćuška_) - here's a Serbian example
Americans - _Ameri_


----------



## Lars H

There is actually one old pejorative word for a slavic people to be found in Swedish - and in German. "Krabat" for "Croat" meant basicly "(malicious) creature" or "rascal" and was given by the Protestants fighting the Thirty Years War in the 1600-hundreds. But over the years the meaning has softened and altered. Today we use it typically to express tenderness or affection for small children or puppets.
Like the word "kravatt" the word "krabat" is frequently used but today very few - hardly any - are familiar with the link to "Croatians".

I don't think the word has survived in German in this meaning, but "Krabat" is also a name connected to a Sorbic saga. Although I guess this is completely unrelated to the Swedish "Krabat".


----------



## DenisBiH

> There is actually one old pejorative word for a slavic people to be found in Swedish - and in German. "Krabat" for "Croat" meant basicly "(malicious) creature" or "rascal" and was given by the Protestants fighting the Thirty Years War in the 1600-hundreds. But over the years the meaning has softened and altered. Today we use it typically to express tenderness or affection for small children or puppets.
> Like the word "kravatt" the word "krabat" is frequently used but today very few - hardly any - are familiar with the link to "Croatians".


Yes, the Thirty Years War war seems to have created a few of those pejorative terms. In BCS today survives the word flundra "prostitute; woman with lax morals regarding sex", from the name Flanders.




> I don't think the word has survived in German in this meaning, but "Krabat" is also a name connected to a Sorbic saga. Although I guess this is completely unrelated to the Swedish "Krabat".


Yes, probably different origin, but still related to Croats. Here's a version:



> Though the exact origins of Krabat are disputed, legend suggests that he is based on Jan Schadowitz, a former Croatian officer who was invited by the Saxon king, August the Strong, to settle in a Sorbian village, where he was given a farm. As a foreigner, Krabat was popular with the Sorbians, who gradually came to the conclusion that he possessed magical powers because he continually helped the poor, oppressed Sorbian peasants.


----------



## Lars H

DenisBiH said:


> Yes, the Thirty Years War war seems to have created a few of those pejorative terms. In BCS today survives a word flundra "prostitute; woman with lax morals regarding sex", from the name Flanders.



A bit out of topic, but "flamsig" means silly in Swedish. "Sluta flamsa" is something that an irritated mother or father could yell to overexcited kids running around. So the name of the Belgian party "Vlamse Blok" gives other associations to a swede than the namegivers had intended.
Flundra is a flat fish in some (most?) Germanic languages.



DenisBiH said:


> Yes, probably different origin, but still related to Croats. Here's a version:



Not surprised to find a croat connection also for the Sorbian Krabat.
However the Sorbs have been called either "sorber" or "vender", neither of which is pejorative, at least not in Swedish. 

But the people named "Vender" is not too well defined. They seem to be a bit mixed up with other Slavic peoples around the Baltic See like Pomeranians, Kajsubians, pre German Prussians or, of course, Poles.

Until 1974, our king actually bore the title "Sveas, Götes och Wendes konung". "King of the Swedes, Goths and Vends". Wonder what the Sorbs thought about that...


----------



## DenisBiH

> But the people named "Vender" is not too well defined. They seem to be a bit mixed up with other Slavic peoples around the Baltic See like Pomeranians, Kajsubians, pre German Prussians or, of course, Poles.
> 
> Until 1974, our king actually bore the title "Sveas, Götes och Wendes konung". "King of the Swedes, Goths and Vends". Wonder what the Sorbs thought about that...


Interesting title. I've recently had the pleasure of studying (via distance learning) Viking-age Scandinavia at one of your universities (Umeå) and from what I remember (correct me if I'm wrong) the unification of the Svear and the Götar started back in the Viking age (800-1050), with Svear and Götar things/assemblies both approving a particular king. If the Vends in the title are that old, then could that be a reference to eastern Slavs and other eastern Europeans in modern Russia and Ukraine under political control of the Vikings?

Or maybe that title is something that was coined later?

That the Slavic/Slavicized Kievan Rus' might have played a part in Viking-age internal Swedish politics might be suggested by some things, such as e.g. the case of Anglo-Danish Osmund, the (probably) Orthodox archbishop of the Swedes, who was consecrated by the "archbishop of Polonia", most probably referring to Polianians, an ethnos in the area of modern Kiev. ("Kings and Vikings: Scandinavia and Europe, A.D. 700-1100", P. H. Sawyer, p. 141)

Here's something else from Sawyer, also p. 141:



> Byzantine influence on later Church art, especially on Gotland (Pilz, 1981) is obviously due to the close links that then existed with Russia. There had been direct contact with Byzantium earlier thanks to the Scandinavians who served there in the Varangian guard, and there were also dynastic links between Scandinavian rulers and Kievan princes. The graves of Birka also show clear indications of Byzantine, or at least Kievan, influence (Hagg, 1974) and it may be that Byzantine missionaries played a larger part in the conversion of eastern Scandinavia than is generally recognized.


As the founders of Kievan Rus' became Slavicized themselves, and as it became a Slavic political entity, the Swedish kings may have adopted the name Vends in their title to denote their dynastic ties with their once Germanic Scandinavian cousins in eastern Europe.

The name Venedi etc. itself is I believe confusing historians to this day. 

But I'm way off topic here and way too historical for this board, so I'll stop.


----------



## Lars H

DenisBiH said:


> Or maybe that title is something that was coined later?



The Swedish-Russian contacts are old, the title is much younger. 
A thousand years ago there was influence from both the Orthodox Church of the East and the Catholic Church in the West and there was probably fierce competition before the Western Church finally gained control.

In Finnish, the word for a cross is "risto", which is much closer to the Russian "крест" than to the Swedish "kors"...

I think "...Wendes Konung" comes from the time after the Thirty Years War, when Sweden gained provinces in nortern Germany. I cannot find the source now, but I think part of the title was to annoy the King of Denmark, who had had that title previously.



DenisBiH said:


> The name Venedi etc. itself is I believe confusing historians to this day.



Wenden, Vendland, Wandalen, Venezia. Placenamnes like "Vendel" or "Värend" in Sweden or "Vendsyssel" in Denmark. There are many thoughts but little knowledge of this/these people(s). But it is not impossible that "Walha" has something to do with it, not the least considering that Venezia neighbours both Germanic Austria amd Slavic Slovenia. Did the Italians living in Dalmatia had a particular name/s i BCS?



DenisBiH said:


> But I'm way off topic here and way too historical for this board, so I'll stop.



Yes, we surely are.


----------



## DenisBiH

I'm not sure we can call the Romanized and Romance speaking population of Dalmatia Italians. Those in the hinterland, the nomads, were as far as I know referred to as Vlasi - Vlachs, and this was later possibly transferred to all those that lived with this nomadic lifestyle, irrespective of language/ethnicity. However, I'm not sure that the Romanized population in the Dalmatian cities and the islands was referred to as Vlachs, though I do know of a few cases which might point to this. One example might be Vinodolski zakonik, or Vinodol Codex, a Croat legal document originally compiled in the 13th century but known from a copy in the 16th.

My personal opinion or rather guess  about the term *walha, which is based on what I can gather from what is known about the history of Central Europe roughly 60 BCE - 18 CE, is that it may have been the Germanic Quadi that overran the historic lands of the Celtic Volcae Tectosages (in modern day Moravia and parts of Slovakia), and possibly their western neighbors the Germanic Marcomanni in Bohemia, that first used this name in the meaning "Romanized", possibly referring to the Volcae settled to the south of Danube in Roman Pannonia, and then spread it to other Germanic tribes, from whom it was borrowed by the Slavs later. I can elaborate why via PM. I don't see there can be made a link between Volcae and Veneti of Italy or Venedi of eastern Europe. As for the possible links between Veneti of Italy and Venedi of eastern Europe etc., that is an interesting topic indeed but I'm not sure that much could be decisively said.


----------



## TriglavNationalPark

Lars H said:


> Did the Italians living in Dalmatia had a particular name/s i BCS?


 
I'm not sure about BCS, but a common Slovenian pejorative term for Italians is *Lahi*. (We discussed the term in this thread several pages back; it's essentially another form of "Vlahi", albeit with a different modern meaning). Apparently, the term was once used for any Romanized people, hence the Slovenian town of *Laško.*


----------



## DenisBiH

There is one (Croat/Bosniak) Muslim poem from the 17th century, "O osvojenju Kandije" (About the conquest of Crete), that mentions Vlasi in the context of Venice, but I'm not sure whether it refers to the Venice itself or to the actual Vlachs (as explained above) in service of Venice in the territory of Dalmatia neighboring the Ottoman empire. Here is the opening:



> O vi Vlasi mletački!
> Otić’ će vam Kandija,
> 
> O you Venetian Vlachs!
> Crete will be gone/taken from you


----------



## Lars H

Hej



DenisBiH said:


> I'm not sure that the Romanized population in the Dalmatian cities and the islands was referred to as Vlachs, though I do know of a few cases which might point to this.



What about Vlaška? (We say Valakiet). Do we know if that name is given by Slavs or by Hungarians? It is certainly not given by Romance speakers.

Isn't the Romance presence in Dalmatia and the hinterland the product of two migration waves? First the Romans with presence from Pannonia to the Imperial palace of Split. Then a more Italian or at least venetian wave during the time of Venetian rule of the coast, from the 1100? century and ending in 1797.
In July 1982, I was in Rovinj in Istria when Italy won the World Championship in Football. The inhabitants there seemed to be very Italian that night 




DenisBiH said:


> I don't see there can be made a link between Volcae and Veneti of Italy or Venedi of eastern Europe.



I do not think there are any such links. I was only referring to different  attempts that has been made to connect the mysterious Vandals with many places and/or peoples.


----------



## DenisBiH

> What about Vlaška? (We say Valakiet). Do we know if that name is given by Slavs or by Hungarians? It is certainly not given by Romance speakers.


I really don't know. The name Vlaška is of course obviously Slavic, but given that Romanian has such a large number of Slavic borrowings (it had even more if I'm not mistaken) and given the use of Old Church Slavonic in Romanian lands for liturgical and administrative purposes until the 18th century, who knows.




> Isn't the Romance presence in Dalmatia and the hinterland the product of two migration waves? First the Romans with presence from Pannonia to the Imperial palace of Split. Then a more Italian or at least venetian wave during the time of Venetian rule of the coast, from the 1100? century and ending in 1797.


Actually, then it could be more like three. The remnants of Romance speaking population in the coastal cities and islands, the Vlachs moving in from the east, and then the Venetians. Though I'm not sure that there was that third wave and that there wasn't simply a case of common language development due to trade, political, cultural and other relations. But I don't know. It's just that I've never heard of anybody referring to Medieval and Ottoman-era Romance speaking population of for example Dubrovnik/Ragusa as Italians, books or otherwise.




> In July 1982, I was in Rovinj in Istria when Italy won the World Championship in Football. The inhabitants there seemed to be very Italian that night


I believe there are a number of Italians in Istria. And Istria was after all part of Italy between WWI and WWII.


----------



## sokol

"Vlah" to my knowledge is a cognate of German "Welsch" (and related words in other Germanic languages, Old High German "Walah(a)") which ultimately goes back to the Celtic tribe of Volcae (or so it is believed) - I'm sure about the Germanic root but couldn't find a source confirming the Slavic one.

This root is used mostly for Romance nations (but occasionally also for non-Romance ones).

In the once Illyrian Roman province there were indeed remnants of the old (Eastern) Romance population left (Istro-Rumanian being the westernmost known branch of it), and Venetian influence of course (which is not Eastern Romance) came much later.
However, that's not the topic of this thread - so please lets focus again on the original topic.


----------



## sokol

Mod note:
The Eastern Romance topic has been moved to a new thread in EHL. And now please let us stay on topic; you can always open a new topic in the appropriate forum. 
Thank you!


----------



## miuccia

I'd like to add that in Croatia we call slovenian people "oba slovenca" or "i jedan i drugi slovenac", there are probably over a million jokes about them  also we call them cigani and seljačine.
Serbs are srbijanderi, četnici and kosovari. 
No other pejoratives


----------



## XTad

texpert said:


> "spanelska vesnice" (Spanish village)



Germans have "Böhmisches Dorf" (czech village) which has the same meaning as our "španělská vesnice".


----------



## Bog Svarog

Heroj_MKD said:


> Ѓуптин = very dark skinned man, greek        (Gjuptin)


I've *never* heard it being used like that. Gjuptin means exclusively "very dark gypsy" to me.



> Сељак= Serb, can also be macedonian with provincial manners   (Seljak)


I think this is just made-up nonsense....seljak being a word for Serbs? Do you have any proof of any Macedonian using seljak as a general word for Serbs?

From what city are you, if I may ask?


As for the Albanians in Macedonia:
*šipci* (singular *šipec*)


----------



## iobyo

Bog Svarog said:


> Gjuptin means exclusively "very dark gypsy" to me.



_Ѓуптин_ is just the southern regionalism for the standard _циган_, perhaps a little more pejorative (and only because _циган _is used so frequently in songs).


----------



## Gnoj

TriglavNationalPark said:


> the pejorative word *Slovenčki *(singular: Slovenček, dual: Slovenčka) that we Slovenes often use for ourselves.


In Macedonian, *slovenečki *is the standard way to refer to anything of Slovenian origin: словенечки јазик (Slovenian language), словенечки производи (Slovenian products), словенечка музика (Slovenian music) etc.


----------



## ilocas2

mcibor said:


> In Polish, as winpoj said:
> Czech - Pepiczek



another Polish pejorative word for Czechs is *knedliczek*, plural *knedliczki* - little dumplings


----------



## Sanduleak

In Slovak, I've heard also *žabožrút *(frog eater) for a French, *ťinťan *or *činčan *for a Vietnamese, *Čechúň *or *Čechúr *for a Czech.

Tagarela, I can't think of any pejorative for Brazilians.


----------



## ilocas2

Slovak word for Czechs is Česi.

Czech word for Czechs is Češi or much less frequently Čechové.

Many Czechs don't like Slovak word Česi and find it offensive, so Slovaks in company of Czechs often say Češi instead of Česi even if they speak Slovak.


----------



## Sanduleak

I have used Češi all my life, it's so frequently used in Slovakia that I thought it was the Slovak form, but it isn't. It follows the rules of Slovak grammar, just like beloch - belosi, černoch - černosi, valach - valasi, Čech - Česi.

I also didn't know that Czechs find it offensive.


----------



## marco_2

DenisBiH said:


> Yes, the Thirty Years War war seems to have created a few of those pejorative terms. In BCS today survives the word flundra "prostitute; woman with lax morals regarding sex", from the name Flanders.



There was a nasty German proverb about _ein Mädchen aus Flandern _referring to Flemish settlers, which was widespread among the German settlers in Poland, so we coined the word *flądra *with the same meaning as BCS *flundra* (an offensive word used by arguing women), although today this word first of all means _flounder_ - one of several flatfish species.


----------



## ilocas2

During the ongoing ice hockey world championship I noticed the usage of *Čečenci* (= Chechens) for Czechs by Slovaks in discussions.


----------

