# Urdu-Hindi-Persian: decision



## marrish

Hi,

For 'a decision' we have several words in Urdu, one of them being فیصلہ. I am used to this pronunciation: _faislah_. A friend of mine suggested that the word is in fact _fais*a*lah. 

_Which one is correct? Which one you are used to hear/speak?

Just in order to expand this topic, what is the difference between فیصلہ  and تہیہ?

What can be 'a ruling' (a court's decision)?


----------



## marrish

I'm sorry I forgot to add Hindi and Persian in the thread title. Persian and Hindi input is very welcome!


----------



## marrish

marrish said:


> I'm sorry I forgot to add Hindi and Persian in the thread title. Persian and Hindi input is very welcome!


For Persian, I think I have come across the word تصمیم tasmiim which I don´t think has been ever used in Urdu.


----------



## Faylasoof

The original is indeed_ faiS*a*lah_ but most say _faiSlah _(_faislaa_).

BTW, تصمیم _taSmiim_ and مصمم _muSamam_ are both used in higher Urdu vocabulary. Both derived from the Arabic verb صَمّ _Samma_ and used for / and in relation to decisions.


----------



## Qureshpor

I think "tahiiyah karnaa" is a much firmer decision, but not as firm as "Thaan_naa".


----------



## marrish

^ Thank you for bringing the verb unto the discussion.

I heard one person of Hariyaanvii background pronounce fais(a)lah '' _pheNslaa_ ''


----------



## searcher123

In modern Persian فيصله دادن (Feysaleh Daadan) is used just in the meaning of "to dispose" (i.e. دعوا يا اختلافي را حل و فصل كردن). But فيصله alone as a noun is not used at all (at least I have not heard it to now).


----------



## tonyspeed

marrish said:


> Hi,
> 
> For 'a decision' we have several words in Urdu, one of them being فیصلہ. I am used to this pronunciation: _faislah_. A friend of mine suggested that the word is in fact _fais*a*lah.
> 
> _Which one is correct? Which one you are used to hear/speak?



The Hindi spelling leaves the option open for saying faisalaa by not using a conjunct in the middle, but in practice I have only ever heard
faislaa.



QURESHPOR said:


> I think "tahiiyah karnaa" is a much firmer decision, but not as firm as "Thaan_naa".



I beleive in English THaannaa is best translated as "to resolve".


----------



## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> The Hindi spelling leaves the option open for saying faisalaa by not using a conjunct in the middle, but in practice I have only ever heard
> faislaa.
> 
> I beleive in English THaannaa is best translated as "to resolve".



The Urdu spelling "fyslh" provides many more options!

H  ٿهاننا  ठानना_ṭhānnā (fr. ṭhān, q.v.), v.t. To fix or settle (in the mind), to *resolve*, determine on; to be intent on, set the heart upon; to perform._


----------



## Alfaaz

marrish said:
			
		

> Just in order to expand this topic, what is the difference between فیصلہ and تہیہ?





			
				QURESHPOR said:
			
		

> I think "tahiiyah karnaa" is a much firmer decision, but not as firm as "Thaan_naa".


فیصلہ کرنا seems to be like _"to decide"_, تہیہ کرنا like _"to prepare (for an action)"_, while عزم کرنا or ٹھاننا seem closer to _"to become resolute"_


----------



## greatbear

There's certainly a little bit of schwa, not whole though, for me in "fais-laa" (the same little bit of schwa as in "maul-vii"). In both cases, I do not consider it as a complete schwa, hence I write both as "faislaa" and "maulvii".


----------



## Qureshpor

Alfaaz said:


> فیصلہ کرنا seems to be like _"to decide"_, تہیہ کرنا like _"to prepare (for an action)"_, while عزم کرنا or ٹھاننا seem closer to _"to become resolute"_


I agree with you (and with tonyspeed SaaHib). There is some overlap in meanings and in some contexts  one meaning may be more dominant than another.

yih dunyaa aaxir faanii hai
aur jaan bhii ik din jaanii hai
phir tujh ko kyoN Hauraanii hai?
kar Daal jo dil meN Thaanii hai!

uTh baaNdh kamar! kyaa Dartaa hai?
dekh Xudaa kyaa kartaa hai!

Nazeer Akbarabadii (1735-1830)


----------



## marrish

marrish said:


> What can be 'a ruling' (a court's decision)?


[Urdu] Do you consider تجویز _tajwiiz _an appropriate word besides _faisalah_?


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> [Urdu] Do you consider تجویز _tajwiiz _an appropriate word besides _faisalah_?


 (gavaahoN ke bayaanaat ko madd-i-nazar rakhte hu'e) ek jaj apnaa faisalah sunaataa hai. agar tajviiz pesh kare gaa to log use radd bhii kar sakte haiN!


----------



## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> (gavaahoN ke bayaanaat ko madd-i-nazar rakhte hu'e) ek jaj apnaa faisalah sunaataa hai. agar tajviiz pesh kare gaa to log use radd bhii kar sakte haiN!


You've convinced me not to use it through this example.


----------



## urdustan

Greetings,

Which is considered more "proper" usage?  faiSalah karnaa yaa faiSalah lenaa?

I think it's faiSalah karnaa but I've been hearing faiSalah lenaa more and more in recent times.

There's also faisalah denaa which I've heard in legal contexts.  Example: jaj (judge) ne faiSalah diyaa


----------



## marrish

urdustan said:


> Greetings,
> 
> Which is considered more "proper" usage?  faiSalah karnaa yaa faiSalah lenaa?
> 
> I think it's faiSalah karnaa but I've been hearing faiSalah lenaa more and more in recent times.
> 
> There's also faisalah denaa which I've heard in legal contexts.  Example: jaj (judge) ne faiSalah diyaa


I would risk a statement that _faiSalah karnaa_ is proper and in a legal context, it would be _jaj ne faiSalah Saadir kiyaa_.

I am curious whether you would be able to provide some example sentences to illustrate the usage of ''faisalah lenaa'' in order to discuss this issue further.


----------



## Qureshpor

urdustan said:


> Greetings,
> 
> Which is considered more "proper" usage?  faiSalah karnaa yaa faiSalah lenaa?
> 
> I think it's faiSalah karnaa but I've been hearing faiSalah lenaa more and more in recent times.
> 
> There's also faisalah denaa which I've heard in legal contexts.  Example: jaj (judge) ne faiSalah diyaa


I've heard "faisalah sunaayaa" not "faisalah diyaa".


----------



## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> I've heard "faisalah sunaayaa" not "faisalah diyaa".


I can join you with my experience. This is the basics of Urdu for this situation and then we get _Saadir_ and _jaarii kiyaa_. I am hopeful you would agree with me that there is _faiSalah farmaayaa_ in the said context.


----------



## Qureshpor

iraadah in Urdu and qasad in Persian.


----------



## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> iraadah in Urdu and qasad in Persian.


I am afraid I can't find any relation of this post with the topic at hand? Or am I missing something? And is the word not '_qasd_'?


----------



## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I am afraid I can't find any relation of this post with the topic at hand? Or am I missing something? And is the word not '_qasd_'?


Yes, it should be "qasd". I might have misunderstood your intent. I thought you wanted words for "decision". You suggested "tasmiim" for Persian. I've come up with "iraadah" for Urdu and "qasd" for Persian. The latter actually means "intent" but in the right context it seems to mean "decision" too.


----------



## marrish

Qureshpor said:


> Yes, it should be "qasd". I might have misunderstood your intent. I thought you wanted words for "decision". You suggested "tasmiim" for Persian. I've come up with "iraadah" for Urdu and "qasd" for Persian. The latter actually means "intent" but in the right context it seems to mean "decision" too.


Do you mean '_iraadah_' as in _(musammam) iraadah baaNdh lenaa_? Because otherwise I'd understand both _qasd_ and _iraadah_ to mean 'intent' in the first place.


----------



## gagun

can there be a difference between faislah and faislaa?


----------



## marrish

How do you mean? In which way?


----------



## Faylasoof

gagun said:


> can there be a difference between faislah and faislaa?


 The only difference is in the spelling, hence reflected in the transliteration. But there is a bit more to it. 

As per transliteration conventions many of us are following, it would be fai*S*la*h* (فیصلہ) in Urdu and faislaa (फ़ैसला) when written in Hindi. Other than that there is no difference, certainly not the way we use it.


----------



## gagun

Faylasoof said:


> The only difference is in the spelling, hence reflected in the transliteration. But there is a bit more to it.
> 
> As per transliteration conventions many of us are following, it would be fai*S*la*h* (فیصلہ) in Urdu and faislaa (फ़ैसला) when written in Hindi. Other than that there is no difference, certainly not the way we use it.



I mean to say فیصلا and فیصلہ


----------



## Qureshpor

gagun said:


> I mean to say فیصلا and فیصلہ


I suppose the difference would be same as if you decided to write d*ee*cision for d*e*cision. The former is not acceptable in English, the latter is the norm. فیصلہ is the correct word, فیصلا is n't.


----------



## gagun

Qureshpor said:


> I suppose the difference would be same as if you decided to write d*ee*cision for d*e*cision. The former is not acceptable in English, the latter is the norm. فیصلہ is the correct word, فیصلا is n't.



thank you for your reply


----------

