# シ and ツ



## Sherlok

Please help me with that in Japanese. I always see two similar words in Katakana *シ* and *ツ* but the meaning is different.
One. of them is "*shi*" and "*tsu*". The thing is when I see them in the textbook i can't differ them between each other. Is there any lifehack to differ them?


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## Flaminius

How about 5 tweets in this Twitter thread by Kayo sensei (link to the top tweet)?

The key for writing シ is to stack two slanting bits vertically.  In contrast, the two bits in シ are planted horizontally like fence poles.

Edit:
I realise you are trying to recognise those two letters in writing.  I still think the difference between stacking and fencing is vital.

While looking for Kayo sensei's spot-on explanation, I chanced upon many complaints about the two.  Well, they aren't so hard as deciphering Russian cursive handwriting.  Good luck.


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## gengo

Flaminius said:


> The key for writing シ is to stack two slanting bits vertically.  In contrast, the two bits in シ are planted horizontally like fence poles.



I think you made a typo there, since you wrote the same kana twice.  The first one should be ツ.

Many languages have symbols that are similar in appearance.  In English, for example, 6 and G often can be hard to distinguish in handwriting.  And the numeral 1 and the letter l can also pose problems.  But usually the context eliminates any question.  For instance, in 高そうなスーツを着ていた, we instantly know that "suushi" makes no sense, whereas "suutsu" makes perfect sense.


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## Flaminius

gengo said:


> I think you made a typo there, since you wrote the same kana twice. The first one should be ツ.


Hahahaha, this goes to show how those two are difficult to tell even for native speakers....

To correct myself above,
The key for writing シ is to stack two slanting bits vertically. In contrast, the two bits in *ツ* are planted horizontally like fence poles.


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## gengo

Flaminius said:


> To correct myself above,
> The key for writing シ is to stack two slanting bits vertically. In contrast, the two bits in *ツ* are planted horizontally like fence poles.



Hmmm, I think you have the two backwards now.  The two bits are more horizontal in *シ* and more vertical in *ツ*.  I know that's what you meant, but you said that fence poles are horizontal.


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## Flaminius

Blame it, *gengo*, on my poor command of English, but I meant what I wrote.

Fence poles are *planted horizontally*.  Likewise, two shorter bits in シ are stacked vertically.  Pray see the original tweets by Kayo.

Edit:
Letters drawn by *Fumiko Take* here are more conceptually salient.


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## gengo

Flaminius said:


> Fence poles are *planted horizontally*.




Could you please post a photo of a fence with horizontal posts?  The posts must be vertical so that they can be planted in the ground.



Flaminius said:


> Likewise, two shorter bits in シ are stacked vertically.  Pray see the original tweets by Kayo.



I looked at those, and the ones in shi are completely horizontal (水平方向), and the ones in tsu are vertical (鉛直 / 上下方向).
Of course, the properly written katakana are not completely like that, and are more like what Sola described in that thread.

Very confused.

(By the way, your English is just fine.)


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## SoLaTiDoberman

This might be your help to understand the confusing "horizontal" concept here.


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## Flaminius

@gengo,

Horizontal planting: ○ ○ ○ ○ …

Vertical stacking:
▲
▲
▲
▲
…

@SoLaTiDoberman, thank you!


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## gengo

Flaminius said:


> @gengo,
> 
> Horizontal planting: ○ ○ ○ ○ …
> 
> Vertical stacking:
> ▲
> ▲
> ▲
> ▲



I am talking about the orientation of the bits themselves.  In ツ they are mostly vertical, and シ they are most horizontal.  The same applies to {"} and {=}, although those are completely vertical and horizontal.


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## SoLaTiDoberman

>In ツ, the first two strokes are mostly vertical.   --- Yes, you're correct.

But the more important knack to write a natural handwriting of ツ is that* their placement should be (almost) horizontal.*
Or should I use "even" instead of "horizontal(ly)"? Look at my PDF in #8.
How do you describe the knack?

The knack has been taught by Japanese mothers to their kids, traditionally, if they are educated families.
Or by teachers to their pupils.
I believe that is how native Japanese speakers' brains distinguish ツ from シ.

Well, how about this?
ツ: _the first two strokes should be written nearly vertically, and the starting points of the three strokes should be at almost the same horizontal line._

シ：_ the first two strokes should be written almost horizontally, and the starting points of the three strokes should be at almost the same vertical line._

I hope this is clearer.


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## gengo

SoLaTiDoberman said:


> Well, how about this?
> ツ: _the first two strokes should be written nearly vertically, and the starting points of the three strokes should be at almost the same horizontal line._
> 
> シ：_ the first two strokes should be written almost horizontally, and the starting points of the three strokes should be at almost the same vertical line._



バッチリ！それより明確に説明することは不可能でしょう。


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