# كفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب



## ajami

Assalamoalaikum wrwb,
could you please translate the following,


 أأ صر ها و بني عمي ساغب

و كفاك من ٢بة علي و عاب

 قلت لءعرابية بلعيون إبنة مءة سنة ما لك لا تأتين اهل الرفقة فقالت اني أ خزي أن أمشي في الرقاق

    ألنوادر في اللغة  لابي زيد الأنصاري


The poet is Asmai, as far as I remember. The poetry is taken from a book, as I've mentioned - An Nawaadir fil Lugha by Abu Zaid al-Ansari. Abu Zaid is trying to prove that the meaning of "ibatun" is "al khizyu wa al haya". For that proof he brought this sentence by the old lady - she used the word "akhza" for "haya". 

What does this "bil-uyuun" mean over here? I also wanted to know the meaning of these two lines of poetry.

Jazakallah o khair.


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## Masjeen

*بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى ... بسلٌ عليك ملامتي وعتابي*
*أأصرها وبني عمي ساغبٌ ... فكفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب*
*هل تخمشن إبلي على وجوهها ... أم تعصبن رؤوسها بسلاب*​


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## ajami

salams,
but where is the translation?


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## Masjeen

well, Although i consider myself very educated in Arabic (In addition i am native speaker of Arabic) but I am unable to understand something of these words


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## ajami

assalamoalaykum wrwb,
sir outlandish,could you plz answer my latest query.
jazakALLAH
ajami


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## Outlandish

> أأ صر ها و بني عمي ساغب
> 
> وكفاك من ٢بة علي و عاب


Wa Iyakum Ajami,
What I understand is:
Should I mete out to her of aid,
While my cousins are starved
What a disgrace and a terrible thing!





> قلت لاعرابية بلعيون إبنة مئة سنة ما لك لا تأتين اهل الرفقة فقالت اني أ خزي أن أمشي في الرقاق
> 
> ألنوادر في اللغة  لابي زيد الأنصاري


I need to see more of the context of the sentence to understand what is اعرابية بلعيون. I can't find any thing which stands for بلعيون. The wildest guesses will make it either a pace or a tribe's name. 
So please, give more context about this woman.


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## Faylasoof

Outlandish, could you explain to me how you translated the first line:  
أأصرها و بني عمي ساغب

I assume the verb here  صر  not and أصر aSarra?    

صر Sarra = to creak, chirp; to put money in purse (– to aid financially?)

Also, in the second line (and ajami also asked) what does من إبةٍ mean? 

The rest seems OK to me in the verse.

… and about this


Outlandish said:


> ...I need to see more of the context of the sentence to understand what is اعرابية بلعيون. I can't find any thing which stands for بلعيون. The wildest guesses will make it either a pace or a tribe's name.
> So please, give more context about this woman.


 Is it not a typo! I thought the segment might be: بالعيون إبنة مئة سنة  = with / through the eyes of (one) who is 100 years old. 

But اعرابية here doesn’t make sense!

Ajami, there look like to be a few typos in your original post. Could you please edit them! Thanks!


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## ajami

Salaams,

 Brother Faylasoof, Abu Zayd Al-Ansari in his book, Nawadir Fil Lugha brought this nadir word "ibatun" and there he proved its meaning "haya and alkhizyu". For that he qouted the poetry and then its use as "haya" with the reference of that old lady's statement.

JazakALLAH.


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## ajami

the word kafaki min khizye and aiyb


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## Outlandish

> أأصرها و بني عمي ساغب
> 
> I assume the verb here  صر  not and أصر aSarra?
> 
> صر Sarra = to creak, chirp; to put money in purse (– to aid financially?)


The verb in the verse is أصر  which means to be kind to; the same as (يصل )= to aid or help a relative in various ways (naturally including food and money). What do you think about it?




> Also, in the second line (and ajami also asked) what does من إبةٍ mean?


He said it means خزى = disgrace. I took it from his mouth as correct because it suits the context well.




> … and about this
> Is it not a typo! I thought the segment might be: بالعيون إبنة مئة سنة  = with / through the eyes of (one) who is 100 years old.
> 
> But اعرابية here doesn’t make sense!


The "typo" suggestion is correct. It is العيون , which is the name of a place. There is an area or city called العيون in الاحساء in the Arabian Peninsula. Thus اعرابية would make sense:
قلت لاعرابيةٍ بالعيون
"I said to a nomad woman from/in Al-Uyoun".


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## ajami

*بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى ... بسلٌ عليك ملامتي وعتابي*
*أأصرها وبني عمي ساغبٌ ... فكفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب*
*هل تخمشن إبلي على وجوهها ... أم تعصبن رؤوسها بسلاب
*
So you could you please tell me what is the complete translation?

Jazakallah.​ * 
*​


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## ajami

These are the links to the related pages of the book.

Page 143
Page 144
[URL="http://picasaweb.google.com/ajeem53/Untitled#5399885344888920674"]Page 145
[/URL]
Jazakallah.


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## Faylasoof

Outlandish said:


> The verb in the verse is أصر which means to be kind to; the same as (يصل )= to aid or help a relative in various ways (naturally including food and money). What do you think about it?


 OK! So it is أصَرَ (and definitely not أصَرَّ! This is what I meant in the above post.) This makes perfect sense.

 أصَرَ:​  الشيء يأْصِرُهُ أَصْرًا كسره وعطفه وفلانا حبسه ​ والبيتَ جعل له إصارًا وفلانا عليه عطفه​  


ajami said:


> ..Brother Faylasoof, Abu Zayd Al-Ansari in his book, Nawadir Fil Lugha brought this nadir word "ibatun" and there he proved its meaning "haya and alkhizyu". For that he qouted the poetry and then its use as "haya" with the reference of that old lady's statement. JazakALLAH.





Outlandish said:


> He said it means خزى = disgrace. I took it from his mouth as correct because it suits the context well.


  Yes, I understand! And the root of إبة is...?
 


Outlandish said:


> The "typo" suggestion is correct. It is العيون , which is the name of a place.





Outlandish said:


> There is an area or city called العيون in الاحساء in the Arabian Peninsula. Thus اعرابية would make sense:
> 
> "I said to a nomad woman from/in Al-Uyoun".


 قلت لاعرابيةٍ بالعيون. Now it makes sense!

 BTW, what does she mean by this?

 فقالت اني أخزي أن أمشي في الرقاق

 رقاق has a number of meanings: 

 رُقاقٌ، ةٌ - [ر-ق- ق]. "خَبَزَتْ رُقاقاً لَذِيذاً" : الخُبْزُ الْمُنْبَسِطُ الرَّقيقُ. ​ 
 رُقاق = slow pace of a camel 

 رَقاق = hot – _don’t think applicable here!_

  رُقّ/ رُقَۃ (sing.) , رَقاق (pl.) = thin.

Edit: Thanks for the links Ajami!


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## ajami

وذكر محمد بن يزيد قال حدثني المازني عن أبي زيد قال: قدم الكسائي البصرة فأخذ عن أبي عمرو ويونس وعيسى بن عمر علماً كثيراً صحيحاً ثم خرج إلى بغداد فقدم إعراب الحطمة فأخذ عنهم شيئاً فاسداً فخلط هذا بذاك فأفسده ولا نعلم أحداً من علماء البصريين بالنحو واللغة أخذ عن أهل الكوفة شيئاً من علم العرب إلا أبا زيد فإنه روى عن المفضل الضبي. قال أبو زيد في أول كتاب النوادر أنشدني المفضل لضمرة بن ضمرة النهشلي جاهلي.
بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى ... بسلٌ عليك ملامتي وعتابي
أأصرها وبني عمي ساغبٌ ... فكفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب
هل تخمشن إبلي على وجوهها ... أم تعصبن رؤوسها بسلاب

(1/8)

معنى بكرت أي قدمت الوقت والوهن الساعة من الليل، والبسل الحرام، أأصرها يعني أشد أخلافها والساغب الجائع، والإبة العيب وما يستحي منه والعاب العيب والسلاب عصابة سوداء تلبسها المرأة في المصيبة، وعامة كتاب النوادر لأبي زيد عن المفضل.


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## Outlandish

Based on the precious three pages you've referenced, the meaning changes.


> *بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى ... بسلٌ عليك ملامتي وعتابي*
> *أأصرها وبني عمي ساغبٌ ... فكفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب*
> *هل تخمشن إبلي على وجوهها ... أم تعصبن رؤوسها بسلاب*



Literal translation:
*-She quickened her blaming (me) after slowing down my grants  ... Shame on you for blaming me.

-Should I withhold it (a she-camel-?) while my cousins are starved?  ...  Enough denying me this and finding faults with my deed!

-Does my camels lament my (loss) by scratching their faces,  ...  or by wrapping black cloth round their heads?
*

In the pages you provided بكرت here means quickened or hastened in ding something.
وهن : slowing down, withholding, slumber
ندى : rain, grants and bestowals (material grants, usually)
بسل : shame and disgrace
أأصرّها : here it means to keep it off, withhold it (_asorroha_)
بنىّ’ عمىٍَ : sons of my uncles (cousins)
سغائب  :  ساغب is the plural; means, hungry, at need
أبة علىّ : denying me
تخمشنْ: do they scratch (female things)
سلاب : black cloth which mourners wrap round their heads 

The entire thing is now understood except one thing; what is the relation between the last verse and the first two? What is the message he is trying to convey in the last verse?


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## Faylasoof

The meaning has changed! Oh, such are the vicissitudes of translating Arabic poetry! Still leaves you with the puzzle you mention - about the link between the beginning and end verses

  OK  Outlandish, many thanks for your trouble but what do you say about my queries above - post 13:

The root of إبة ?

  The meaning of  رقاق in:

فقالت اني أخزي أن أمشي في الرقاق


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## Outlandish

ابه comes from the verb أبى noun, اباء . It is originally اباءه and was shortened to ابه.
Search the entries of Lisan Al-Arab under the entry أبى :
http://baheth.info/all.jsp?term=%D8%A7%D8%A8%D8%A9

As to رقاق, the context will reveal more as with the former points. Still there are two sub entries in Albahet Al-Araby which suit the apparent meaning in this sentence:
1-والرَّقاق، بالفتح: الأَرض السَّهلةُ المُنبسِطة المُستوِِية الليِّنةُ الترابِ تحت صلابة

الأصمعي: الرَّقاقُ الأَرض اللينة من غير رمل
والرِّقُّ أَيضاً: الشيء الرَّقيق، ويقال للأَرض الليِّنةِ رِقٌّ؛ عن الأَصمعي.
2-والرَّقَّةُ: كلّ أَرض إِلى جَنب وادٍ ينبسط عليها الماء أَيَّام المَدِّ ثم يَنْحَسِرُ عنها الماء فتكون مَكْرُمةً للنبات، والجمع رِقاقٌ. أَبو حاتم: الرَّقَّة الأَرض التي نَضَب عنها الماء، والرَّقَّةُ البيضاء معروفة منه،.




Oh, I have to add this, apparently, the third verse doesn't seem to have a relation to the two before it because it is not the following verse in the original order. The way it is mentioned in the links posted by Ajami made it seem as a separate verse, not the respective verse after the two. ​


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## ajami

Salams wa ALLAHU YAJZIKA AHSANAL JAZA.the above mentioned lines r someones signature which i like to post at this apropriate situation.
brother,I noticed that you preferred to use the word deny for ibatun over its actual meaning الخزي و الحياء.abu zayd especially brought this nadir word and for the proofs of its  2 usage,he gave one example in poetry and other "alkizyu" in the meaning of haya in that old lady statement.the actual meaning;enough=stop insulting or disgracing me and pointing out my  عيوب.is this ok?
next is about the poetry,does he mean that why should he hold the she camel from the starving cousins and give her instead?how does the pronoun 'ha' refers to she camel?
man lam yaskurinnasa lam yashkuriLLAH.once again thank you very much.
ajami


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## ajami

why did this old lady felt shy to go among her acquaintances or friends?


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## Faylasoof

Outlandish,


Outlandish said:


> ابه comes from the verb أبى noun, اباء . It is originally اباءه and was shortened to ابه.
> Search the entries of Lisan Al-Arab under the entry أبى :
> http://baheth.info/all.jsp?term=ابة


   Actually, I thought it might be from أبى. Tried <lexicons.sakhr.com> and failed to find anything! Baheth is much better but it still left me with a problem. That being what Ajami says in the first post, viz. that Abu Zayd is trying to show a rare usage of  إبةٍ and in his post #14 he says: …  والإبة العيب وما يستحي منه
I couldn’t quite square the meanings in Baheth with this!

Ajami,



ajami said:


> ...brother,I noticed that you preferred to use the word deny for ibatun over its actual meaning





ajami said:


> الخزيوالحياء.abu zayd especially brought this nadir word and for the proofs of its 2 usage,he gave one example in poetry and other "alkizyu" in the meaning of haya in that old lady statement.the actual meaning;enough=stop insulting or disgracing me and pointing out my عيوب.is this ok?



I too wondered about this. 



ajami said:


> next is about the poetry,does he mean that why should he hold the she camel from the starving cousins and give her instead?how does the pronoun 'ha' refers to she camel?
> man lam yaskurinnasa lam yashkuriLLAH.once again thank you very much.
> ajami


    This is another thing that crossed my mind. Now for these lines:

أأصرها وبني عمي ساغبٌ 
 فكفاك من إبةٍ علي وعاب

Given your quote in post # 14: والإبة العيب وما يستحي منه والعاب العيب
and what Abu Zayd says it means: الخزي و الحياء = Shame and modesty 

I wonder whether we can have this:

_Should I withhold / refuse them while my cousins starve
Enough you shaming me, pointing out my defects_ 

[ Here _them_ could be monies / edibles / funds / أنعام = livestock – including إبل , collective for camels! ]

The next two verses also seem to suggest that the it’ll serve no purpose having  your إبل stand around and do nothing. 

_Should my camels just scratch their faces
Or round their heads wrap the mourning cloth
_ 
I still have a problem with the first verse: 
بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى

Cannot quite fit it in. The first half I follow but the second half puzzles me yet:
بعد وهن في الندى

Again from your post#14 وهن :
والوَهْنُ والمَوْهِنُ: نَحْوٌ من نصف الليل، وقيل: هو بعد ساعة منه، وقيل: هو حين يُدْبِر الليلُ، وقيل: الوَهْنُ ساعة تمضي من الليل​   and  الندى :
النَّدَى: البَلَلُ.​ والنَّدَى ما يَسْقُط بالليل، والجمع أَنْداءِ وأَندِيةٌ ، على غير قياس.​ 
Unless the poet is drawing a contrast with the idea of plenty here with depravation in the line about the starving cousins.

I need sleep!


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## ajami

بكرت تلومك بعد وهن في الندى
bakarat:3rd.p.f.....>hastened (past.t,from bakar ubkuru to haste,to do smth early in the morning)
talumu 3rd.p.f........>cursing(lama/yalumu)present.t
ka...............  pronoun  2nd.p.m
b3d wahnin.......after the weakening in the generosity=lessening
an-nada...........generosity 
she promptly started cursing you and speaking ill of u.
2nd line;-basallun ,,,,,haramun(u shudnt)alayki to curse and scold me.
3rdline;-should i hold the milk in the udder(ha pronoun for she camel) while bani 3mmi r sagibun that is starving.
4th line f kafake....enough in other words stop,disgracing,insulting me (for this action of holding milk for my cousins)
sara yasurru in 3rd line means;-to hold the milk in the udder.
the lady is reprimanding him of  the lessening in his generosity.
wahan;-lessening(actual meaning weak)fi annada...>generosity.
this is enough for the time being.



أءب    إو تاب(إفتعل) اتاب (ت مششدة) أوبء(أفعل)
aaba
ivtaba waw changed into ta of ift3la it ta aba
au ba a on af3la
meaning u already know
jazakALLAHU,

salams,
brotheroutlandish,here the meaning of wahn بعد وهن is نومة.
so the meaning will change from lessening to after short sleep
or what?


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## Outlandish

http://baheth.info/all.jsp?term=ابة




> Actually, I thought it might be from أبى. Tried <lexicons.sakhr.com> and failed to find anything! Baheth is much better but it still left me with a problem. That being what Ajami says in the first post, viz. that Abu Zayd is trying to show a rare usage of إبةٍ and in his post #14 he says: …  والإبة العيب وما يستحي منه
> I couldn’t quite square the meanings in Baheth with this!


The link provided is for the root أبى. The word ابه is variant of اباءه as I noted earlier. That's the best I was able to grasp. It goes well with the meaning Ajami mentioned. If it is العيب, so the verb of it would be يعيب.




> Again from your post#14 وهن :
> والوَهْنُ والمَوْهِنُ: نَحْوٌ من نصف الليل، وقيل: هو بعد ساعة منه، وقيل: هو حين يُدْبِر الليلُ، وقيل: الوَهْنُ ساعة تمضي من الليل​   and  الندى :
> النَّدَى: البَلَلُ.​ والنَّدَى ما يَسْقُط بالليل، والجمع أَنْداءِ وأَندِيةٌ ، على غير قياس.​
> Unless the poet is drawing a contrast with the idea of plenty here with depravation in the line about the starving cousins.



وهن here means the weakening or diminishing of a certain act as well as sleep. Sleep or slumber comes when one's feet can't carry him any more, when one's energy weakens.
الندى is dew or generosity, giving of grants. It also has many other meanings beside this.


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