# FR: I have some - j'en ai



## aie0

what does *j'en* stand for?


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## Juan Jacob Vilalta

j'en ai = je en ai

J'ai de l'argent = j'en ai. *en* stand for argent. Something French have, English doesn't. *En *replaces subjet. Very usefull.


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## LiamSeth

en is a pronom personnel which replaces a group of words or a noun preceeded by the word "de"

for example:

j'ai envie *de manger*

j'*en* ai envie


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## b1947420

Juan Jacob Vilalta said:


> j'en ai = je en ai
> 
> J'ai de l'argent = j'en ai. *en* stand for argent. Something French have, English doesn't. *En *replaces subjet. Very usefull.


 
I'm not sure that I agree.
In the case you quote en (object pronoun) = de l'argent the subject of this sentence is Je.


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## jann

LiamSeth said:


> en is a pronom personnel which replaces a group of words or a noun  preceeded by the word "de"
> 
> for example:
> 
> j'ai envie *de manger*
> j'*en* ai envie


I'm sorry, but as a pronoun, _en_ cannot replace a verbal construction. 
You are correct, however, that it replaces an object (not a subject) that is introduced by _de_.

_j'ai envie *d'argent*, 
j'*en* ai envie _


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## itka

"Tu as envie* de sortir ce soir* ?
- Oui, j'_*en*_ ai envie !"


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## timpeac

You haven't said what you're example is to show itka - is it a counterexample to Jann's advice in post 5?


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## jann

(Arrrgh.  I have now lost this post 2x and am retyping for the 3rd time.)

Hello itka 

It seems you won't let me get away with generalizations without delving into specifics. 

I maintain that _en_ replaces a nominal structure, not a verbal one.  This is the "rule" that most English-speakers are taught, and on the whole it prevents grammatical errors.  But it does not sufficiently explain examples like the one you gave.  We must understand your example as:

_Tu as envie* de *__sortir ce soir? --> Oui, j'ai envie *de* cela. --> Ou, j'*en* ai envie._

This replacement only works because _en_ is understood to represent the implicit nominalization of an entire idea, phrase, _proposition_, etc.

Here is what the TLFi says on the subject:





> *Généralités 1. *En tant que pronom, _en_ se construit avec un antécédent de nature substantive, qu'il s'agisse d'un subst. proprement dit ou d'un pronom qui le représente, ou d'un subst. inclus dans une loc. adv., ou enfin d'une prop. reprise en tant qu'entité globale après nominalisation implicite par _en._


 There is an example of such implicit nominalization and replacement with _en_ in section I.B.1.10., a quote from Fontanes, _Œuvres.

_I don't have my Grevisse with me, or any other grammatical reference books... I will try to remember to check back later.


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## timpeac

Interesting discussion - something I think (hope) I would have done right instinctively but had never thought about before.

So would "I want to" in the following be translated as follows:

_Why do you want to choose? I just want to!

Pourquoi as-tu envie de choisir ? J'ai envie tout simplement ! _

And not _j'en ai envie tout simplement !_ ?


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## itka

timpeac said:


> _Pourquoi as-tu envie de choisir ? J'ai envie tout simplement ! _
> And not _j'en ai envie tout simplement !_ ?


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## timpeac

Hi. Itka - I really appreciate you replying but could you also add some comments rather than just indicating right or wrong?

Don't Jann's comments above indicate that "j'en ai envie tout simplement" should be wrong in this context? Do you therefore disagree with her?

Jann - I follow your argument above, but it seems to me difficult to claim that "choisir" in "pourquoi as-tu envie de choisir ?" is a nominal structure.


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## itka

Désolée... Je ne me sens pas la capacité d'expliquer en anglais. 
Et puis...jann l'a déjà fait et il me semble que nous disons la même chose, non ? (ou j'ai mal compris ses explications ?)


> _Tu as envie* de *__sortir ce soir? --> Oui, j'ai envie *de* cela. --> Ou, j'*en* ai envie._


J'ai pensé que ta phrase était incorrecte par étourderie...


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## timpeac

Pas de problème. En fait je vois très peu de différence entre la phrase dans le message 5 que Jann critique et celle dans mon message précédent où tu as indiqué qu'il devrait y trouver un "en". Attendons voir ce qu'en dit Jann (ou bien d'autres personnes intéressées bien sûr !)


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## Nicomon

L'exemple du post 3 me semble en effet fort semblable à celui d'itka.

_As tu envie *de* manger (du poulet, du chocolat, etc.)? --> Oui, j'ai envie *de* cela. --> Oui, j'*en* ai envie._

J'ajoute à ce fil cette page de la BDL au sujet du *pronom en* qui comprend plusieurs exemples.


> Le pronom _en_ (qu’il faut bien distinguer de son homonyme, la préposition _en_) remplace un complément introduit par _de_. Il peut s’agir d’un complément du nom, de l’adjectif ou du verbe.


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## CapnPrep

I thought we were supposed to report threads like this, not respond to them.  Who said anything about _envie_?

But since we're on the topic, why not read the discussion in this existing thread instead of reproducing it blow-by-blow here?
* avoir envie de*


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## timpeac

Because we are asking about the use of "en" to replace a verb, which is precisely what the thread is about. Thank you, however, for linking to the other discussion since it does deal with the same issue.


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## jann

CapnPrep said:


> I thought we were supposed to report threads like this, not respond to them.  Who said anything about _envie_?
> 
> But since we're on the topic, why not read the discussion in this existing thread instead of reproducing it blow-by-blow here?
> * avoir envie de*


Thanks for the link -- I knew I remembered a similar discussion about _en_, but I couldn't find that thread when I did a quick search (possibly because I think I restricted my search criteria to threads beginning with the FR: prefix).  As we said there (and above in this thread), the usage of _en_ to replace a verbal construction is limited to situations where it can be understood to implicitly nominalize the entire _proposition_.  I have looked for authoritative French grammar references on the topic, but I have not found anything -- not in Grevisse, not in Bescherelle.  Bitzy's post #10 in the other thread refers to Barson's _Grammaire à l'oeuvre_, a text book used in many American classrooms.  The BDL (at Nicomon's link) mentions the use of _en_ to replace a verbal complement, but avoids giving any example sentence whatsoever on this sticky topic.


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## CapnPrep

jann said:


> I have looked for authoritative French grammar references on the topic, but I have not found anything -- not in Grevisse, not in Bescherelle.  Bitzy's post #10 in the other thread refers to Barson's _Grammaire à l'oeuvre_, a text book used in many American classrooms.  The BDL (at Nicomon's link) mentions the use of _en_ to replace a verbal complement, but avoids giving any example sentence whatsoever on this sticky topic.


Where does the BDL mention a verbal complement? That's not the way I understand their explanation. But that said, I'm not surprised you haven't found a French reference for the idea that _en_ (and _y_) do not directly replace verbal complements. I agree with this generalization—with some exceptions, inevitably, but apparently very few. I have myself mentioned it here and there in these forums. But traditional French grammar deals with this question by forcing infinitives and sentential complements into the COD/COI classification. Since most of the tests for distinguishing CODs and COIs involve pronominalization (e.g. _avoir envie de quoi ?_), this approach arrives at more or less the same result (but in a less straightforward way, in my opinion).


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## Nicomon

For the record... what the BDL says is that it replaces « un complément *du *verbe ... introduit par de ».
And the two given examples are these :


> - Julien n’*en* a plus beaucoup. (_en_ remplace un complément direct du verbe : Julien n’a plus beaucoup *de cheveux*.)
> - Depuis qu’il a goûté à cette confiture, il *en* mange tout le temps. (_en_ remplace un complément direct du verbe : Depuis qu’il a goûté à cette confiture, il mange tout le temps *de cette confiture*.)


 These are different from _avoir envie /besoin de + infinitive_... but I think they are in line with this thread's topic « _j'en ai_ ».


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## Deslandes

To me French pronouns are the most difficult aspect of the French language to master... I have the following doubt:
_
- Tu as des pommes ? 
- Oui, j'ai d'eux._ 
or
_- Oui, j'ai d'elles._

Is the pronoun _eux_ an asexual one or I must use _elles_?


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## elsab

Hello,

You cannot use these sentences but :
- Tu as des pommes ?
- Oui, j'en ai.

I forgot my grammar lessons, then I am not able to give you a rule for the use of "eux" and "elles" !


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## Deslandes

Oh, the pronoun "en". That's right. I totally forgot about it... It's the weirdest pronoun I've ever studied. Thanks for your reply. By the way, if anyone could explain me the rules for the use of eux and elles and why they can't be used on this context I would appreciate. Thanks.


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## razzor

Bonsoir,

The pronoun 'eux' and 'elles' both mean 'them'.
'Eux' is used for male people or a mixture of males and females, whereas 'elles' is just used for females.

For example : J'y vais avec eux = I'm going with them (them = group of males, or a group of males and females)
J'y vais avec elles = I'm going with them (them = a group of females)

Compare, for instance, 'ils' and 'elles'.


In your context, neither 'eux' nor 'elles' is convenient. On the one hand, you are talking about an object and not about people, and on the other hand, direct object pronouns (or indirect) must be placed before the verb or auxiliary.

Tu as des pommes?
Oui, j'en ai.

The 'en' replaces 'des pommes'.

If you wanted to say 'I have them', instead of 'I have some', you would say 'Je les ai'.

I hope this helps.


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## Deslandes

Thank you very much razzor, very enlightening.


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