# How to pronounce 'Angelos'?



## englisheer

Is the 'g' a hard or soft sound? 

Thanks.


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## apmoy70

It's like the -gu- in argue; just try to pronounce the [ɟi] part of argue without the . Add the palatal [ɲ] before it (similar to the Spanish ñ) and you have the cluster [ɲɟ]; in non IPA notation it's something like áñghʲelos


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## englisheer

Thank you. That is a perfect explanation


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## Andrious

Check this out, as well: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/aggelos


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## apmoy70

Andrious said:


> Check this out, as well: http://www.pronouncenames.com/pronounce/aggelos


Err, sorry but I simply disagree, that pronunciation is clearly wrong, it's not the standard one, the cludster -γγ- is not pronounced as [g] in Greek, since ancient times it's not simply the allophone of -γκ- but derives from the assimilation of -ν- [n] before -γ- [g] (or [ɣ] in the modern language), so it's [ŋg] (or [ɲɟ] before front vowels, like in άγγελος)


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## Andrious

Well, the truth is that what is used is not always the right one. I'm quite sure that if you find 10 videos in youtube with the name/word Άγγελος, 8-9 of them will be pronounced with a sound closer to [g] rather than [ŋg].


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## gburtonio

In the video for the song 'O Aggelos mou' by Protopsalti Alkistis (you can find it on youtube), I hear something like [g] or [ŋg] – it definitely doesn't sound anything like [ɲɟ] to me.


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## Timothy1987

Andrious said:


> Well, the truth is that what is used is not always the right one. I'm quite sure that if you find 10 videos in youtube with the name/word Άγγελος, 8-9 of them will be pronounced with a sound closer to [g] rather than [ŋg].



The lack of enforcement (and education) of proper pronunciation has led to horrendous translations, amongst other things.

Any particular reason why nobody cares aside from indolence?


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## JRomulus

But seriously, YouTube can't be considered a *real *reference?  I wouldn't claim that for American English for one second.  In every language there is a difference between "common parlance", regional dialects and what is considered technically correct.

Στο βιβλίο του Μπανμπινιώτης αυτό το γράφεται:

Προσοχή!
Δύο όμοια σύμφωνα (*εκτός των γγ*) διαβάζονται ως ένα.

--θάλασσα, άλλος, Ελλάδα, άμμος, γραμμή, έρρινος Κ.ά.


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## Timothy1987

Thanks for that attachment, JRomulus.


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## Αγγελος

I happen to bear that very name, and I can assure you I pronounce it [áɲɟelos], exactly as Apmoy70 says.
On the other hand, there definitely is a growing tendency for people to omit the nasal element in [mb], [nd], [ŋg], [ɲɟ]. In fact, most Greeks, unless exposed to another language at a young age, can't even hear the difference between, say, καμπάνα meaning "church bell" (in my pronunciation [kambána], from late Latin campana)  and καμπάνα meaning "booth/room for rent on the beach" (in my pronunciation [kabána], from French cabane), or τούμπα (properly [tumba], somersault) and τούμπα (properly [tuba], meaning tuba). So you will definitely also, and perhaps more often than not, hear Αγγελος pronounced as [áɟelos].


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## Timothy1987

Αγγελος said:


> I happen to bear that very name, and I can assure you I pronounce it [áɲɟelos], exactly as Apmoy70 says.
> On the other hand, there definitely is a growing tendency for people to omit the nasal element in [mb], [nd], [ŋg], [ɲɟ]. In fact, most Greeks, unless exposed to another language at a young age, can't even hear the difference between, say, καμπάναmeaning "church bell" (in my pronunciation [kambána], from late Latin campana)  and καμπάνα meaning "booth/room for rent on the beach" (in my pronunciation [kabána], from French cabane), or τούμπα (properly [tumba], somersault) and τούμπα (properly [tuba], meaning tuba). So you will definitely also, and perhaps more often than not, hear Αγγελος pronounced as [áɟelos].



How unfortunate, the language needs to be taught properly. Furthermore, there needs to be a stop in the obsession with trying to capture foreign sounds with μπ, and ντ and just use β and δ, as how every other language translate Greek into their Latin alphabet derivative. That way we would have τούμπα and τούβα as clear distinctions.


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## Perseas

Timothy1987 said:


> That way we would have τούμπα and τούβα as clear distinctions.


Both are written τούμπα. But the pronunciation is [túmba]1 and [túba]3.
1= sommersault, 3= tuba


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## Timothy1987

I know, but I was saying they should be spelt differently, as apparently Greeks cannot hear or tell the difference due to poor education.


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## Αγγελος

Timothy1987 said:


> I know, but I was saying they should be spelt differently, as apparently Greeks cannot hear or tell the difference due to poor education.



Most Greeks cannot hear or tell the difference, not because of poor education, but because it is (probably) not phonemic in Greek. William Jones speaks of variphones, meaning that their distribution is basically random and varies from speaker to speaker and even in one and the same speaker's pronunciation.
The foreigner learning Greek is probably best advised to prenasalize postvocalic μπ/ντ/γκ/γγ unless etymology clearly dictates otherwise (as in ρόμπα < Fr. robe de chambre, or τούμπα = tuba) and in a few words like μπαμπάς or νταντά, which are never pronounced with a nasal element.


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## Timothy1987

That's fine, and exactly why I suggested what I did.


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