# Lahat



## Inglip

Where does Lahat come in a sentence?

I'll just use, "all the men are fat" as the example sentence.

I'm not sure where to place lahat in the sentence. I'm also not sure if I need mga.

I would put it like this, but I'm not so sure it's right.

Lahat ang mga lalaki ay mataba.


Thanks


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## Salbahe

Ang lahat ng lalaki ay mataba.
Mataba ang lahat ng lalaki.

These are the two possible forms.  Subject + Predicate and Predicate + Subject.

Mga is assumed because you are talking about "all of" one type of thing.  I've never seen mga used with lahat.

Nakaupo ang lahat ng bata.  (All of the children are sitting).

Due to my lack of experience, someone should correct me if I am wrong, but I believe this to be correct.


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## Inglip

Thanks .


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## DotterKat

The plural marker _mga_ is needed, as is congruence between the adjective and the object (in this case, in terms of number).

All the men are fat. 

Ang lahat ng _mga _lalaki ay _matataba_.

OR

_Matataba_ ang lahat ng _mga_ lalaki.


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## Salbahe

Ugh... I hate that.  According to Rosetta Stone, you don't use mga with lahat.  I read books, use these courses, and I believe what they tell me... and a lot of times they are wrong.  Thanks for setting us straight.


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## DotterKat

You don't use _mga _when the adjective _lahat_ modifies a pronoun:

Ang *lahat* ng *mga batang* dumalo sa kaarawan ni James ay kanyang mga kaibigan.
*Lahat sila* ay kanyang kaibigan. (You don't say _lahat ng mga sila.)_

Ang *lahat* ng *mga lalaki* sa paaralan ay matatangkad.
*Lahat sila *ay matatangkad.

Ikaw at ang *lahat* ng iyong *mga kapatid* ay imbitado sa party ni James.
*Kayong lahat* ay imbitado sa party ni James. (You don't say _mga kayong lahat.)_

Ako at ang *lahat* ng aking *mga katrabaho *ay pupunta sa party ni James.
*Lahat kami* ay pupunta sa party ni James. (You don't say _lahat ng mga kami.)

_Having said all that, you will sometimes hear people violating these "rules", and just as with any language if people use them enough they become acceptable. For instance, you might hear: Lahat ng Pilipino ay....instead of the more proper Lahat ng *mga* Pilipino ay..., or Lahat ng tao sa mundo ay.... instead of Lahat ng *mga* tao sa mundo ay.....etc.
My personal opinion is that one should master the basics of a language first before dealing with variations.


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## Salbahe

What was frusting was this.  Rosetta Stone consistently grouped together the same set of examples, not using pronouns:

Ang dilaw ang lahat ng bola. (Supposedly meaning: All of the balls are yellow)
Ang dilaw ang ilan sa *mga* bola (Some of the balls are yellow)
Walang dilaw na bola. (There are no yellow balls)

By putting these together with different adjectives and plural objects, and always using mga with ilan, but never using mga with lahat, they lead people to the natural conclusion that you don't use mga with lahat.

But since this isn't a forum about the quality of Rosetta Stone, I should let it go.  I will say in the interest of fairness that I read in a Living Language product last night that "anim na pinsan" means "five cousins".  I realize that is just an editorial mistake, but it makes me wonder what else is wrong that I'm accepting as true.  I guess that's why it's always good to do a reality check by using what you learn to talk to people as you learn it.


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## Inglip

Thanks for the help people!

I also ave Rosetta Stone, and I've only used it twice after installing it. Since then I haven't even turned it on lol.


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## DotterKat

Ang dilaw ang lahat ng bola. (incorrect) = _Dilaw ang lahat ng mga bola. _OR (using a pronoun and omitting _mga_) _ Lahat sila ay dilaw._ OR _Silang lahat ay dilaw_.

Ang dilaw ang ilan sa *mga* bola. (incorrect) = _Dilaw ang ilan sa mga bola. _OR (with a pronoun and no _mga_) _Dilaw ang ilan sa kanila._ OR _Ilan sa kanila ay dilaw._

Anim na pinsan. (incorrect) = _Anim na magpipinsan._


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## Salbahe

I received an email from a friend last night, born and raised and still living in the Philippines, who said to me that she prefers to omit mga when using lahat.

I had given her two examples:

Ang lahat ng tao ay mabait. (All of the people are kind) -OR-
Ang lahat ng mga tao ay mababait.

She said Ang lahat ng tao ay mabait "is better" (her words) but she also said that both are acceptable and easily understandable.  I'm reading "is better" as "sounds more natural".

Just thought I'd throw that out there as the final salvo on lahat.


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## DotterKat

I absolutely agree. As I have said in the closing of my second post, once one has mastered the basics of a language, then one can take liberties and speak like a native. Shortcuts, regional variations, clique speak and even slang has to founded on good grammar first of all.


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