# ne...que in Romance Languages



## Testing1234567

This sentence structure for expressing "only" exists in some Romance languages, but not in the other. For example, this exists in French and Italian but doesn't exist in Spanish and Portuguese. I'm not sure about other Romance Languages, because I am only aware of these four Romance Languages.

French: Il *n*'est *qu*'un enfant (He is only a child)
Italian: Nel cuore del mio cuore *non* hò altro *che* te (In the center of my heart there is no one but you)
Spanish: doesn't exist
Portuguese: doesn't exist

I would like to the reason behind this. Does this sentence structure exist in Vulgar Latin? Or in Classical Latin?


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## bearded

The structure existed in Latin. Consider the famous saying ''nihil nisi bonum'' (nothing but good(ness)).
During the long process in which Romance languages separated themselves from Latin (at first they were ''dialects'' of it), each language acquired its own linguistic habits and usages, some nearer to Latin and some farther from it. It would be a long story to explain the reasons for those differences: I will just mention the influence by the languages that were spoken in the different regions prior to the conquest by the Roman Empire (for instance the influences on French, exercised by the Celtic/Gaulic languages that were spoken in Gaul(France) before the Romans came there).


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## merquiades

In Spanish you need to add _más_ to get the same meaning:  _No es más que un niño_, _No hay más que tú_.


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## CapnPrep

Testing1234567 said:


> Italian: Nel cuore del mio cuore *non* hò altro *che* te (In the center of my heart there is no one but you)


The construction exists to a certain extent in Italian, but this is a poor example, because it actually contains _altro che_. It is possible to say _Non ho che te_ "I have only you", but this seems to be a relatively recent development in Italian syntax, and probably derives from _altro che_. See for example Moignet (1973), which will give you much more information about the history of the construction in French.


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## bearded

''Non sei che un bambino'' (you are but a child) is a very common expression in Italian. I am not so sure that it derives from 'non sei altro che...', but it is possible. Same as in English 'you are (nothing else) but a child'.


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## jakowo

The same phenomenon exists in Romanian; for only (numai) you can use
nu - decât (not – but), e.g.:

Nu vorbesc decât românește – I only speak Romanian.


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## Gavril

Spanish has a similar (though maybe less common) construction with the conjunction *sino*:

_No tengo sino dos centavos_ "I have only two cents"

This construction is often used to emphasize a positive statement, such as _

No puedo sino agradecerte_ "I can only thank you".

*sino* can also be used to mean "rather" in contexts such as

_Ya no soy muchacho, sino hombre. _"I'm not a boy anymore, but (rather) a man."


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## merquiades

Gavril said:


> Spanish has a similar (though maybe less common) construction with the conjunction *sino*:
> 
> _No tengo sino dos centavos_ "I have only two cents"
> 
> This construction is often used to emphasize a positive statement, such as _
> 
> No puedo sino agradecerte_ "I can only thank you".
> 
> *sino* can also be used to mean "rather" in contexts such as
> 
> _Ya no soy muchacho, sino hombre. _"I'm not a boy anymore, but (rather) a man."



  Yes, definitely.  I forgot about this structure.


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## fdb

This construction is found in languages all around the world, e.g. Arabic _l__ā __ʼil__āha __ʼill__ā ll__āh_, English “there is no god but God”, etc. etc.


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## Testing1234567

In Chinese there is no such construction. I don't think such construction exists in Japanese.


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## CapnPrep

Testing1234567 said:


> In Chinese there is no such construction. I don't think such construction exists in Japanese.


fdb said "in languages *all around the world*", not "in *all languages* around the world". There is no need to start listing all the languages that don't have it…


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## Testing1234567

Oh désolé, je ne l'ai lu bien, ce qu'il a dit...


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## Youngfun

Testing1234567 said:


> Italian: Nel cuore del mio cuore *non* ho altro *che* te (In the center of my heart there is no one but you)


If you mean 我心中 we just say "nel mio cuore" (in my heart).



bearded man said:


> ''Non sei che un bambino'' (you are but a child) is a very common expression in Italian. I am not so sure that it derives from 'non sei altro che...', but it is possible. Same as in English 'you are (nothing else) but a child'.


Also: 
"Non fa altro che pensare a te" = he does nothing but thinking about you = he only thinks about you

But I don't think it works with other verbs.



Testing1234567 said:


> In Chinese there is no such construction. I don't think such construction exists in Japanese.


In Mandarin the only way of saying it is: 我心中除了你没有别人。(in my heart, except you, there's nobody else).


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## bearded

@ Youngfun
- When Testing said ''nel cuore del mio cuore non ho altro che te'' he was just quoting a famous song by Gianni Morandi.  Anyway, you are right, in the usual way of talking we do not use that expression.
- When you say ''I don't think it works with other verbs'', well here I would object: phrases like ''non volevo che il dolce'', or ''non desidero che il tuo bene'' are also common, and do work with 'different verbs'.
I would like to express my congratulations to you for your linguistic competence anyhow: to know Italian, Chinese and English, and other languages so well at your young age, is not something that everybody does or can do.


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## Youngfun

Grazie per i complimenti! Non conoscevo quella canzone, e al momento non mi erano venuti in mente altri esempi.


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## bearded

Youngfun said:


> Grazie per i complimenti! Non conoscevo quella canzone, e al momento non mi erano venuti in mente altri esempi.


Prego. La canzone era _Rose rosse per te_ e il cantante Massimo Ranieri, non G.Morandi come ho scritto per sbaglio.


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## francisgranada

bearded man said:


> ... Consider the famous saying ''nihil nisi bonum'' (nothing but good(ness)).


Is this construction really the same as _ne ... que_ or _non ...che_? It reminds me rather the Spanish constructions with _sino _(perhaps also etymologically). I've found e.g. Nadie sino Jesús.


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## CitizenEmpty

I think we need to understand how negation works in generic Romance languages. The ne .... que structure in French sounds closer to a negative. I might be wrong, but perhaps it is related to Jespersen's Cycle or connegative.


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## bearded

francisgranada said:


> Is this construction really the same as _ne ... que_ or _non ...che_? It reminds me rather the Spanish constructions with _sino _(perhaps also etymologically). I've found e.g. Nadie sino Jesús.


In the Italian expression _non..che_ we have to analyse the nature of that _che._ I think it fully corresponds to _se non / nisi._ ''Non ho altro che te = non ho altro se non te''. I think the same thing is the case with _ne..que_ and _no..sino.  _''Nadie sino Jesùs = nadie (otro) sino J.''  Nessuno se non Gesù , nessun altro che Gesù. I do not share your perplexity.


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## Nino83

This structure is also present in Portuguese: "a vida não é mais que um sonho", "sentir não é mais que o alimento de pensar" (Pessoa), "o mais alto de nós não é mais que um conhecedor mais próximo do oco e do incerto de tudo" (Pessoa). 

Like in Spanish: não...mais que.


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## Kevin Beach

bearded man said:


> The structure existed in Latin. Consider the famous saying ''nihil nisi bonum'' (nothing but good(ness))....


Sorry, but you've got only part of the saying there, and I think you may have misunderstood it.

 "Nisi" means "unless". The full phrase is "De mortuis nil nisi bonum", which means "Of the dead [say] nothing unless good", paraphrased into "Don't speak ill of the dead".

I don't think it's got anything to do with the construction that is being debated here.


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## bearded

Kevin Beach said:


> Sorry, but you've got only part of the saying there, and I think you may have misunderstood it.
> 
> "Nisi" means "unless". The full phrase is "De mortuis nil nisi bonum", which means "Of the dead [say] nothing unless good", paraphrased into "Don't speak ill of the dead".
> 
> I don't think it's got anything to do with the construction that is being debated here.


I beg to differ.
The literal translation of ''de mortuis ni(hi)l nisi bonum'' is ''about the dead, nothing if not good ''.
- Your interpretation: say nothing unless good (things)
- My interpretation: say nothing but good (things).
The difference consists in the meaning of ''nisi''.  Now, for me ''nothing if not'' corresponds to ''nothing else but'', for you ''nothing if not'' corresponds to ''nothing unless''.  I don't agree that it is not the same structure. The final meaning is the same: either only say good things (nothing but), or don't talk unless you have to say  good things: is that so different?
PS. Please also consider above expression (#19) in Spanish ''nadie sino Jesùs'' = nadie otro que Jesùs.  Sino/nisi : except for word order, it is the same thing.


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## Outsider

Nino83 said:


> This structure is also present in Portuguese: "a vida não é mais que um sonho", "sentir não é mais que o alimento de pensar" (Pessoa), "o mais alto de nós não é mais que um conhecedor mais próximo do oco e do incerto de tudo" (Pessoa).
> 
> Like in Spanish: não...mais que.


The syntax is different, although the meaning seems to be pretty much the same: no more than, nothing but. The French equivalent would be *ne*... _*plus que*_... For _*ne... que...*_ without _plus_, the Spanish and Portuguese equivalents are _no... sino... _and _não... senão...

_Hm, I wonder if _ne... que... _originated as a shortening of _ne... plus que...
_


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## irinet

jakowo said:


> The same phenomenon exists in Romanian; for only (numai) you can use
> nu - decât (not – but), e.g.:
> 
> Nu vorbesc decât românește – I only speak Romanian.


It is not correct: "Nu vorbesc decât ...", we do not use"decât" this way. It's not standard.
I don' t speak Deutsch. Neither does he. = _Nu_ vorbesc nici eu Germana şi nici el".
"I only speak Romanian" is translated affirmatively in my language: "Eu vorbesc doar româna".
"Il y un mot seulement."  or "Cette une parole seulement".= "_Nu_ e decât o vorbă"


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## aum34

Youngfun said:


> Also:
> *"Non fa altro che pensare a te" *= he does nothing but thinking about you = he only thinks about you


This structure also exist in Spanish with the same meaning:

_*No** hace **otra cosa que** pensar en ti 
*
Two expressions more with the same meaning:
*No** hace **más que** pensar en ti *

and still, the next one is even stronger* No hace nada más que pensar en ti.*_

Like the song by the famous singer Joan Manuel Serrat:






The same song in Portuguese is called: "_*Nâo faço mais do que pensar em ti" *with same meaning_


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