# 小姐 (waitress, shop assistant)



## Grammar Fan

I wish to know why some waitresses nowadays are reportedly offended if customers address them as "xiao jie" ("Miss" or "Young Lady").  Thank you.

Moderator's Note: Several threads have been merged to create this one.


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## YangMuye

http://zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/小姐

如果其人身份能與“小姐”相稱，則“小姐”爲尊稱。
否則，請照顧她們無聊的自尊吧。
弱者心態。


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## Grammar Fan

Thank you for your reply. An English-language reply would also be most helpful.


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## YangMuye

Since sex workers are also called 小姐. Of course, waitresses don't think they can be honored as “小姐”。
小姐 is still formal honorific for young lady.


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## Jerry Chan

In China a prostitute is referred to as a "xiao jie".
But xiao jie is so commonly used I really don't think the waitresses will be easily offended. In fact, in everyday life we call just any lady xiao jie.
Only under certain circumstances do we think of xiao jie as a prostitute. For example, you're on the street and a woman approachs you and asks if you need a xiao jie. (I hate to admit, but this really happens in some cities)
Anyway, to avoid any misunderstanding, you can simply adress the waiters and waitresses "Fu Wu Yuan" (an attendant).


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## Grammar Fan

Thank you, YangMuye and Jerry Chan, for educating me about the use of "xiao jie." I shall be careful in  my use of that word.


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## xiaolijie

> Thank you, YangMuye and Jerry Chan, for educating me about the use of "xiao jie." I shall be careful in my use of that word.


I think you should NOT let this knowledge cram your mind. "Xiao jie" is the most appropriate word for a learner to use for "Miss" and do use it without fear. It of course can mean "prostitute" but for this to happen, it requires an appropriate place and occasion. 

(Xiaojie and Xiaolijie have no connections whatsoever, by the way )


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## Grammar Fan

Thank you for your encouragement.  I have a question about your last sentence, but the very strict rules probably require me to start a new thread now.


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## samanthalee

Waitresses in Singapore won't be offended; I've addressed them as "xiao jie" since forever.

The unfortunate misappropriation of the word "xiao jie" in China to refer to prostitutes has caused misunderstandings on occasions. A few months back in Singapore, a brawl in a retail shop was started when the shop attendant addressed a Chinese tourist "xiao jie". They were already in an argument in the first place, so I guess when the guy said "xiao jie", it was in a very unpleasant tone. And so the whole situation blew up upon the utterance of "xiao jie".

I've no idea how to safely address Chinese young ladies anymore. Wikipedia suggests using "mei nü" 美女 instead, but if you use that on Singaporean young ladies, you'll be considered flippant; us Singaporean young ladies still prefer "xiao jie".


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## Geysere

I hear "小妹" (xiao mei) a lot these years used to address waitresses or even generally young ladies, perhaps to avoid "xiao jie". I don't know if it's common in other regions, but in Shenzhen it's quite popular. Nonetheless "xiao jie" is more often used.


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## Grammar Fan

Thank you for your observation.  I shall enter it in my notebook.


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## ouzhantekin

Moderator's Note: 
This thread was split from: 口香糖 / 口膠
Please continue the discussion on  口香糖 / 口膠 in the original thread.

What else, she also mentioned that,while in TW we call any girl as 小姐, may it be the shopping assistant or a passer-by whom you wanna  ask a question, in Mainlaind China this would preferrebly refer to "hooker".


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## Green6

Your teacher is quite correct about the use of the word 小姐 in mainland China. However, I really cannot think of anything else than "小姐" to call a very young lady say a shopping assistant.

It is true that people use the word 小姐 a lot to refer to hooker, but I do not think that the word has lost its original meaning "young girl".  I believe that it really depends on how you say the word.

For example, I would call a young shopping assistant for her attention by saying "这位小姐" and not thinking about anything vulgar.

However, if I were talking about having a sauna, then the word 小姐 is identical to hooker because it is in a sauna you get that kinda service.


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## xiaolijie

Green6 said:
			
		

> However, I really cannot think of anything else than "小姐" to call a very young lady say a shopping assistant.


Easy, call her 服务员.


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## viajero_canjeado

ouzhantekin said:


> In TW we call any girl as 小姐, may it be the shopping assistant or a passer-by whom you wanna ask a question, in Mainlaind China this would preferrebly refer to "hooker".


 
This topic was discussed in detail recently in another thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2011436 .


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## ouzhantekin

Green6 said:


> Your teacher is quite correct about the use of the word 小姐 in mainland China. However, I really cannot think of anything else than "小姐" to call a very young lady say a shopping assistant.
> 
> It is true that people use the word 小姐 a lot to refer to hooker, but I do not think that the word has lost its original meaning "young girl".  I believe that it really depends on how you say the word.
> 
> For example, I would call a young shopping assistant for her attention by saying "这位小姐" and not thinking about anything vulgar.
> 
> However, if I were talking about having a sauna, then the word 小姐 is identical to hooker because it is in a sauna you get that kinda service.



definitely, this should depend on your tone of speaking 



xiaolijie said:


> Easy, call her 服务员. BTW, I'm not Chinese



in most occasions calling someone by his/her profession is also regarded as impolite, as far as I know. 



viajero_canjeado said:


> This topic was discussed in detail recently in another thread: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2011436 .



I read all the comments, thanks for the reference..


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## xiaolijie

> in most occasions calling someone by his/her profession is also regarded as impolite, as far as I know.


That is very much over generalized and you're likely to be wrong, ouzhantekin. How do you (and your classmates) call your teacher in Chinese?


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## ouzhantekin

xiaolijie said:


> That is very much over generalized and you're likely to be wrong, ouzhantekin. How do you (and your classmates) call your teacher in Chinese?



Well, we call her with the surname, like "潘老師" . I said that because once I was about to call the waiter as "Waiter!" (of course in Chinese as 服務員) and my friend told me that this would be a bit rude. And in another occassion forgetting about this courtesy I happened to call the shop assisstant in FamilyMart as "店員" and got a similar "kind" scolding.  Either the people around me are too kind or.. I don't know..


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## Green6

xiaolijie said:


> Easy, call her 服务员. BTW, I'm not Chinese



I am not quite sure if 服务员 can be used to refer to a shopping assistant, I have never heard of someone saying that.

Since you mentioned 服务员, it reminds me of a friend of mine who is of Chinese descendant but raised in Paris France. In summer 2007, we were in China for a trip and this dude drank too much wine at dinner, threw up a few times afterwards, and later we had to go to hospital because he was having a serious stomachache, everything was just messed up. The only funny thing happened in the hospital when he called a nurse "服务员"....  it cracked everybody up and he was like..."what?"



ouzhantekin said:


> Well, we call her with the surname, like "潘老師" . I said that because once I was about to call the waiter as "Waiter!" (of course in Chinese as 服務員) and my friend told me that this would be a bit rude. And in another occassion forgetting about this courtesy I happened to call the shop assisstant in FamilyMart as "店員" and got a similar "kind" scolding.  Either the people around me are too kind or.. I don't know..



Don't know about customs in Taiwan but I am quite sure that in mainland China it's 100% okay to call a waiter "服务员". It is a neutral term and you won't be taking any risks, unlike "小姐". 

I don't know why it is a bit rude according to that friend of yours.


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## ouzhantekin

Green6 said:


> I don't know why it is a bit rude according to that friend of yours.



I think that is also one of the differences between 大陸 and 台灣 . Maybe it is just a habit.. I know that you should call waiter "服務員" when you would like to have the bill for example since I also studied the Mainland China Chinese while I was back in Turkey, however since I came here I came across a lot of differences both on lexical and semantic levels. 

Thanks for all the comments.


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## TaiwanKuan

In Taiwan, you use "小姐" and "先生" for people who are 20-40 years old. When you say "服務員" for the waiter/ess, people understand. It's just that we can tell where you are from or where you learned Chinese. If you don't feel comfortable, simply raise your hand up and say "對不起...買單!"


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## ouzhantekin

TaiwanKuan said:


> In Taiwan, you use "小姐" and "先生" for people who are 20-40 years old. When you say "服務員" for the waiter/ess, people understand. It's just that we can tell where you are from or where you learned Chinese. If you don't feel comfortable, simply raise your hand up and say "對不起...買單!"



謝謝TaiwanKuan。


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## altuntun

In in mainland China you can call them  小姐 or 服务员, but 小姐 also means hooker


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## BODYholic

TaiwanKuan said:


> In Taiwan, you use "小姐" and "先生" for people who are 20-40 years old.


我觉得这已不是语言知识的问题，而是说话的技巧。单单以年龄来区分称呼，也不过是种笼统的方法。比如称20岁的小伙子为“先生”，那太老气。叫40岁的欧巴桑做“小姐”也有点哪个。



TaiwanKuan said:


> If you don't feel comfortable, simply raise your hand  up and say "對不起...買單!"


買單 is predominantly Cantonese. 想不到也流行到台湾去了。


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## bwuw

大家好，
我知道“小姐”也有不好的意思。有的人告诉我在中国不能用这个词。去买东西的时候，我可不可以用“小姐”？有别的词我也可以用吗？
谢谢！

B


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## YangMuye

不要单独用。尽可能在前面加上姓或全名。
除了正式的场合，一般也很少用。

跟不认识的人搭话的话，用“你好”就可以了。


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## viajero_canjeado

Asi como el verbo "coger", depende de la region en que estas. En Taiwan la palabra "小姐" se usa tantisimo sin ser ofensivo.
Favor de ver este hilo: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2011436


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## kareno999

bwuw said:


> 大家好，
> 我知道“小姐”也有不好的意思。有的人告诉我在中国不能用这个词。去买东西的时候，我可不可以用“小姐”？有别的词我也可以用吗？
> 谢谢！
> 
> B


Depends on where you go. In south Chinese, e.g., Guangdong or Hainan, allegedly it's a no-no. In Shanghai, people are not that sensitive about it. 
In business or other formal settings, it is absolutely okay. If you wanna be safe, just don't use it toward your waitress.


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## morphium017

Hello~

To me it's not really a taboo word, at least in North China like Beijing, I don't see it being any inappropriate to call sb. that in public. However, especially in some provinces in South China, say Guangdong,  "小姐“ could also mean women who work in a "not so decent" place, like an erotic night club.

If not too much trouble, you could add the job title in front of "小姐“， for example, "服务员小姐“ while you're in a restaurant, or "导购小姐" in a shopping mall, then it's perfectly OK wherever. Anyway, in most cases, you could just skip alll that and start your conversation simply by greeting sb. with "你好“.

Hope this helps~


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## grainhuang

I think you can use "美女", if you are in Guangzhou, then you can use "靓女".


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## xiaolijie

grainhuang said:


> I think you can use "美女"


美女 sounds like something said in jest to me. I think it'd be safer to use 小姐 if I'm serious. Actually, to think that 小姐 refers to prostitutes as a matter of course is to feed learners the wrong idea.


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## blankego

小姐 as an addressment is totally okay, just for sure, you can say 這（这）位小姐, e.g. 這位小姐, 我請問, blah,blah. But it's really unnecessary. In certain context it is simply impossible to be confused with something else. Just don't say 找小姐 or 這裡有沒有小姐! If you actually want to say something like "I'm looking for THIS/A young lady", 這位／一位 is mandatory. There is no ambiguity at all.


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## yaanlpc

Actually, you can use it anywhere if you speak it with respect, then it's not a slang.  it's not a big deal. So the conclusion is in what situation you are going to use it. As the kareno999 addressed . In the formal business occasion, be sure to add their last name. such as 陈小姐, then there would be no problem at all, which is also the only salution.


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## AquisM

morphium017 said:


> Hello~
> 
> To me it's not really a taboo word, at least in North China like Beijing, I don't see it being any inappropriate to call sb. that in public. However, especially in some provinces in South China, say Guangdong,  "小姐“ could also mean women who work in a "not so decent" place, like an erotic night club.
> 
> If not too much trouble, you could add the job title in front of "小姐“， for example, "服务员小姐“ while you're in a restaurant, or "导购小姐" in a shopping mall, then it's perfectly OK wherever. Anyway, in most cases, you could just skip alll that and start your conversation simply by greeting sb. with "你好“.
> 
> Hope this helps~


I just read a Wikipedia article that said the opposite (couldn't find it now)! It said that in the north 小姐 is strictly associated with prostitutes etc. and was a huge no-no. Having never been to Beijing/Tianjin etc., I believed it, until now. Anyway, this difference in connotation always presents a problem for me, as (Hong Kong) Cantonese doesn't associate 小姐 with such taboo and use it all the time. I used to wonder why everyone in Shenzhen say 服务员 instead of a more polite 小姐 (which is the norm in HK, or 唔該 (excuse me)), and why people looked at me when I said it. Guess I know why now!


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## Showfom

其实直接称呼“服务员”即可


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## SuperXW

xnebula said:


> depends on "context"
> 本身"小姐"不会有歧义的。仅仅是girl。当你出现在某些特殊场所的时候，或者特殊语境之时like "她是一个小姐“，才会有恶意。


本身“小姐”是Ms啦……


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## BODYholic

如果问路时说，"小姐，请问xx路怎么走？"。 会很欠扁吗？


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## Showfom

BODYholic said:


> 如果问路时说，"小姐，请问xx路怎么走？"。 会很欠扁吗？



会，直接年轻的女的就叫“美女”，老一点的就叫“阿姨”，头发都白的就叫“婆婆”


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## SuperXW

我10年前回北京，这样问还很礼貌。5年前再问，就欠扁了。
我在餐厅这样叫服务员，朋友们直接笑我。


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## xiaolijie

> I think you can use "美女"





> 直接年轻的女的就叫“美女”


我的一个朋友常常把他妻子的妈妈叫“美女”，所以我总以为这不是认真的称呼方法。
请问一下，我当严肃说话的时候，可以把对方叫做“美女”吗？这不是太随便了吗？


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## Showfom

xiaolijie said:


> 我的一个朋友常常把他妻子的妈妈叫“美女”，所以我总以为这不是认真地的称呼方法。
> 请问一下，我当严肃说话的时候，可以把对方叫做“美女”吗？这不是太随便了吗？



严肃的时候当然不行，直接称呼对方的身份即可，比如对方是总经理的话，就直接称呼X总


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## morphium017

Showfom said:


> 会，直接年轻的女的就叫“美女”，老一点的就叫“阿姨”，头发都白的就叫“婆婆”



叫美女也太油腔滑调了。。。我要是那被问的，一定很不想理你，呵～～


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## BODYholic

Showfom said:


> 会，直接年轻的女的就叫“美女”，老一点的就叫“阿姨”，头发都白的就叫“婆婆”


随便称不熟悉的路人甲为“美女”，不会太轻佻吗？
在我们这儿可不行。对方会以为你秀逗。



SuperXW said:


> 我10年前回北京，这样问还很礼貌。5年前再问，就欠扁了。
> 我在餐厅这样叫服务员，朋友们直接笑我。


这么说，我只好把称呼给省了。就说“不好意思，请问xx路怎么走？"。

说实在的，在大陆要称陌生的年轻”小姐“还挺伤脑筋的。


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## killualaura

美女是现在流行的叫法，但是不正式。我很不喜欢到处都叫美女。
不过对一个陌生的年轻小姐，具体要怎么称呼，就得考虑场合、以及对方身份啦。


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## sisuer

如果陌生人叫我“美女”，我会觉得受到冒犯了，心里会想，我和你有那么熟吗？如果是亲戚朋友就可以，有点开玩笑的意思。
我觉得对于不认识的人，还是称呼为“小姐”比较好。虽然“小姐”有不好的意思，但并不影响它作为一个正统的称呼的地位。


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## killualaura

sisuer said:


> 如果陌生人叫我“美女”，我会觉得受到冒犯了，心里会想，我和你有那么熟吗？如果是亲戚朋友就可以，有点开玩笑的意思。
> 我觉得对于不认识的人，还是称呼为“小姐”比较好。虽然“小姐”有不好的意思，但并不影响它作为一个正统的称呼的地位。


同意


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## KatieHa

在香港是不會了。基本上小姐是個比較有禮貌的稱呼，相反「靚女」（即「美女」）就顯得輕佻。「小姐」會顯出不好的意思，一般是要配合場合或說話內容。

例如在快餐店，一張4座位的枱只坐了一位女士而你又在找座位，你可以有禮貌地指指她對面的空座位，問：「小姐，請問這裡有人（坐）嗎？」


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## ithaca.fox

you can say “同志”


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## ztxforever

KatieHa said:


> 在香港是不會了。基本上小姐是個比較有禮貌的稱呼，相反「靚女」（即「美女」）就顯得輕佻。「小姐」會顯出不好的意思，一般是要配合場合或說話內容。
> 
> 例如在快餐店，一張4座位的枱只坐了一位女士而你又在找座位，你可以有禮貌地指指她對面的空座位，問：「小姐，請問這裡有人（坐）嗎？」




在大陆，与陌生女士问话也是可以说小姐的，通常人们都不会理解成“妓女”。
所以说敬称女士为“小姐”是没关系的。


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