# All Slavic languages: Female inhabitant of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan



## Jana337

Hello, 

I was trying to form the female forms of "Uzbek" and "Tádžik" in Czech but couldn't. Any help? 

I decided to make this an all Slavic languages question to see whether you can deal with it better than us (or is it just me?).


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## Ptak

In Russian it's *узбечка* and *таджичка*.


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## Kolan

Jana337 said:


> Female inhabitant of Uzbekistan and Tajikistan


In Russian it would describe the ethnic origin, not country of residence.


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## Tagarela

Ahoj,



Kolan said:


> In Russian it would describe the ethnic origin, not country of residence.



But wouldn't it be the same in this case? Is it because of URSS and so on?

Na shledanou.:


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## Ptak

Tagarela said:


> But wouldn't it be the same in this case?


Many ethnic Russians live in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. They are not Tajiks or Uzbeks.
Also, many Tajiks and Uzbeks live in Russia. They maybe may call themselves "Russians", but formally they may only use the word россияне (it's not the same as русские).


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## Kolan

Tagarela said:


> Is it because of URSS and so on?


Certainly, we inherit the Soviet multinational internal politics. However, now the things are changing. For some reasons the word россиянин used to be not common at all, although the Soviet poet Мустай Карим wrote once: "Не русский я, но россиянин.. ". At that time it was more likely an exceptional advance, tolerated in spite of the Soviet propaganda telling us that we were all Soviets, советские люди.

Now some people consider that only ethnic Russians are русские in Russia, not россияне, while other ethnic groups should call themselves россияне by their citizenship and place of living, for example, it would be ethnic Tajiks or Uzbeks legally living in Russia. Another point of view is to consider everyone living in Russian Federation as россиянин (россиянка), ethnic Russians included. This may be a difficult issue to discuss these days due to a bunch of sensitive political points.

Definitely, таджичка or узбечка (by their ethnic origin) would be россиянки (not русские) if they have the Russian Federation citizenship. But an ethnic Russian woman (русская) being citizen of either Tajikistan or Uzbekistan (or living there) would never be таджичка nor узбечка, and, probably, not even россиянка (even in the case of her Russian citizenship). For local people she will be almost everywhere and forever русская.


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## Anatoli

Try this:

узбекистанец, узбекистанка, узбекистанцы, узбекистанки.
таджикистанец, таджикистанка, таджикистанцы, таджикистанки.

It may sound a bit awkward but the term is accurate (since it wasn't used before) and is being used.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Slovene:

a member of ethnic community:
Uzbek - Uzbekinja
Tadžik - Tadžikinja

a citizen of state:
Uzbekistanec - Uzbekistanka
Tadžikistanec - Tadžikistanka


Just a note: I see Tadžik suppose to be stressed on the first syllable. Well, in Slovene the stress has been shifted to the second. It's also valid for Tadžíkinja and Tadžíki (plural for men and men&women). The very same is valid also for Uzbék, etc.


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## Duya

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Slovene:
> 
> a member of ethnic community:
> Uzbek - Uzbekinja
> Tadžik - Tadžikinja
> 
> a citizen of state:
> Uzbekistanec - Uzbekistanka
> Tadžikistanec - Tadžikistanka



That's tentatively the same in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (-ac for male citizen). However, I've never heard anyone say "Uzbekinja" or "Tadžikinja" -- the second form will be used instead, even if it's technically a different thing.


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## robin74

In Polish it's: 
Uzbek - Uzbeczka or Uzbejka
Tadżyk - Tadżyjka (there's an official government publication on geographical names, which gives another form, created regularly - "Tadżyczka", but I have not seen in any dictionary).


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## sokol

Kolan said:


> Definitely, таджичка or узбечка (by their ethnic origin) would be россиянки (not русские) if they have the Russian Federation citizenship. But an ethnic Russian woman (русская) being citizen of either Tajikistan or Uzbekistan (or living there) would never be таджичка nor узбечка, and, probably, not even россиянка (even in the case of her Russian citizenship). For local people she will be almost everywhere and forever русская.



But now that Uzbekistan and Tajikistan are nation-states the possibility could arise that a female 'Uzbeki (or Tajiki) resident' who ethnically is Russian would take part in a sport event for her nation of residence, that is Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.
(I don't know any from these states, but some from Kazahkhstan where the same problem would occur.)

Surely you couldn't call a women русская if she wins an Olympic medal and the hymn of Uzbekistan (or Tajikistan) is played? Is there really no solution to this dilemma? (Which more likely would occur with Kazakhstan, admittedly; I wouldn't be surprised at all - but I don't know if it is the case - if ethnical Russians would compete for Kazakhstan in Beijing.)


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## Jana337

I will get an expert opinion on the -stánec words in Czech but I have a hunch that they should be avoided in most cases (i.e. Afghánec and not Afghánistánec, Kazach and not Kazachstánec). On the other hand, there's no choice for Pákistánec (a possible reason).


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## winpoj

I think that for Czech there are only two conceivable options for each of the nationalities, i.e.:

Uzbečka or Uzbekyně
and
Tádžička or Tádžikyně

If I were to follow my feelings alone, I'd use Uzbekyně and Tádžička, although all four options do sound more or less odd to my ear.
If it were important though, I'd ask the ÚJČ, instead of those vague feelings of mine.


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## Maroseika

Anatoli said:


> Try this:
> 
> узбекистанец, узбекистанка, узбекистанцы, узбекистанки.
> таджикистанец, таджикистанка, таджикистанцы, таджикистанки.
> 
> It may sound a bit awkward but the term is accurate (since it wasn't used before) and is being used.


 Maybe it's quite accurate but the trouble is that there are no such words in Russian.


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## Maroseika

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Slovene:
> I see Tadžik suppose to be stressed on the first syllable.


 What language you mean? At least in Tajik and Russian it's stressed on the second one.


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## Kolan

Maroseika said:


> Maybe it's quite accurate but the trouble is that there are no such words in Russian.


The only trustful reference of its modern usage that I could find so far is 

11-06-2008, 17:12
По подозрению в незаконном хранении и перевозке наркотиков задержана *гражданка Таджикистана.*
Как сообщает пресс-служба Пограничной службы Кыргызстана, 11 июня 2008 года в Баткенском районе Баткенской области в международном пункте пропуска Кызылбель пограничниками задержана* 33-летняя таджикистанка*.
При проверке и досмотре ручного багажа обнаружено 1,5 кг белого порошка со специфическим запахом наркотического вещества, предположительно героина.

24-07-2008, 11:56 В Кара-Куле в столкновении с Джипом *таджикистанца* пострадали *5 кыргызстанцев*
http://svodka.akipress.org/news:370/

but this is a local source, from Bishkek (foreign to Russian Federation), which has to deal with the situation on a regular basis and to invent something understandable to denote citizens of the Central Asia countries, not their corresponding ethnicity.

There is some other references, but they are fairly colloquial.

"...пишу здесь в виде уточнения: Ирина Николаевна *не узбекистанка* она *ТАДЖИКИСТАНКА*, но всё равно землячка моя, потому что я тоже жила в Таджикистане. "
http://razluke.net/forum_viewtopic.php?11.220

I also found out that *таджикистанка *(not *узбекистанка*, which would be logical), *таджикистанец* are properly Bulgarian words.
http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%B6%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B8%D1%81%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD
http://pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Узбекистан


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## Maroseika

At least we may conclude that in some cases Russian is really lacking for such terms. Maybe one day we'll encounter them in a dictionary.


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## Athaulf

Duya said:


> That's tentatively the same in Bosnian/Croatian/Serbian (-ac for male citizen). However, I've never heard anyone say "Uzbekinja" or "Tadžikinja" -- the second form will be used instead, even if it's technically a different thing.



Frankly, I'd say that in the republics of former Yugoslavia, these countries are discussed so rarely that BCS hardly ever have the need for this distinction. Usually, _Uzbekistanac_/_Uzbekistanka_ and _Tadžikistanac_/_Tadžikistanka_ are sufficient for all practical purposes. I've seen the ethnic names _Uzbek_ and _Tadžik_ only a few times, and that was in newspaper articles that specifically discussed the ethnic issues in former USSR, when it was necessary to contrast these ethnicities with Russians living in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. However, I don't think anyone writing in BCS was ever in need of their feminine forms, and I agree with Duya that they sound very unusual, even though they are derived from the masculine forms in a formally correct way.


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> the ethnic names _Uzbek_ and _Tadžik_ only a few times, and that was in newspaper articles that specifically discussed the ethnic issues in former USSR, when it was necessary to contrast these ethnicities with Russians living in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. However, I don't think anyone writing in BCS was ever in need of their feminine forms, and I agree with Duya that they sound very unusual, even though they are derived from the masculine forms in a formally correct way.


As it has been already mentioned (#11 posted by *sokol*), the names and nationality (not ethnicity) of female participants of the oncomig Games in China from those countries could be aired on the news worldwide. Here the problem unsolved in different languages will necessarily arise, otherwise, it could be at least inaccurate or even spark controversies.


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## Athaulf

Kolan said:


> As it has been already mentioned (#11 posted by *sokol*), the names and nationality (not ethnicity) of female participants of the oncomig Games in China from those countries could be aired on the news worldwide. Here the problem unsolved in different languages will necessarily arise, otherwise, it could be at least inaccurate or even spark controversies.



Yes, but when it comes to nationality, there is no problem: _Uzbekistanac_/_Uzbekistanka_ and _Tadžikistanac_/_Tadžikistanka _refer to male/female citizens of these countries. The name that (as far as I know) no BCS speaker or writer has yet ever needed would be the feminine version of the _ethnic_ designations _Uzbek_ and _Tadžik_.


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## Kolan

Athaulf said:


> The name that (as far as I know) no BCS speaker or writer has yet ever needed would be the feminine version of the _ethnic_ designations _Uzbek_ and _Tadžik_.


Here it comes quite close to the point talking about the Uzbek opposition and people's street protests.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/serbian/news/2005/05/050518_ukpress18-05.shtml


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## Duya

Kolan said:


> Here it comes quite close to the point talking about the Uzbek opposition and people's street protests.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/serbian/news/2005/05/050518_ukpress18-05.shtml



_"Uzbečka opozicija sačinila je spisak od 745 imena poginulih u nemirima u Andidžanu i okolini..."
_
I would argue that it's used incorrectly in that article, or at least against the customs. Obviously, it's about opposition _in state of Uzbekistan_, not "opposition of Uzbek ethnicity".

I vaguely recall that "uzbek" and adjective "uzbečki" were in more intense circulation during the War in Afghanistan... checking... yes. Afghanistani Uzbeks led by Rashid Dostum were an important force during the war. And "uzbečki" would be correct e.g. in reference to Uzbek language.

Just as in English, there's no systematic distinction of "an ethnic Foobar/a speaker of Foobarian" and "citizen of Foobaria/Foobaristan/Foobarska" in Slavic languages. Sometimes it happens to "naturally" exist, as for Uzbeks, Kazakhs or Tajiks, sometimes it's "invented" (cf. Rus'/Rossiyanin, Srbin/Srbijanac) and most often, it's just indistinguishable without additional qualifiers or context (_Francuz_, _Nemac_, _Kinez_...).


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## Kolan

Duya said:


> Sometimes it happens to "naturally" exist, as for Uzbeks, Kazakhs or Tajiks, sometimes it's "invented" (cf. Rus'/Rossiyanin, Srbin/Srbijanac) and most often, it's just indistinguishable without additional qualifiers or context (_Francuz_, _Nemac_, _Kinez_...).


*Rus' (Русь)* is toponym, in modern Russian, besides its prominent poetic value, it stands for the ancient land inhabited historically and throughout the ages by the ancestors of the modern Russian people and neighboring eastern Slavic nations. Although, originally (in IXth century) *Rus'* was name of a local tribe of unknown origin, called _русы (_из_ руси)_ (_Rusy _of _Rus'_), singular _русин (rusin),_ referred to their ethnicuty.
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1%83%D1%81%D1%8C_%28%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B4%29
*Русские (Russians)* supercede русь (Rus') and numerous ethnicities speaking ancient Russian by the end of XI century. 
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Русские
*Россияне* is relatively recent invention, emerged (reborn) spontaneously, I guess, in the Soviet times in order to designate the people of РСФСР as a state within the USSR. That term becomes nearly official now and includes dozens of ethicities living in RF.
"Переводу на большинство иностранных языков, отличному от перевода слова «русские», не поддаётся"
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Россияне


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