# breviore itinere se occurrere ei posse sperans



## hopojo

the full line is: 
_postea per exploratores certior factus postero die castra movit, *breviore itinere se occurrere ei posse sperans.
*_
the translation is meant to be:
_but having afterward got true intelligence from  his scouts, he decamped the day following, *hoping to prevent him by taking  a shorter road*

_my problem is highlighted in bold print. 
occurrere + dative is defined as run up to, to meet someone. how does it come to mean to prevent? to meet and to avoid someone is like two opposite meanings. anyone clarify?

thanks


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## Cagey

It can also mean to "run up to" in a hostile sense, "to work against, or oppose".  I think this meaning is behind the choice of "prevent" as a translation. It is not the word I would have chosen, but it is not always easy to find a good English equivalent for a Latin word. "To run up to meet" is not quite carry the sense either.  You may be able to think of a word that better gives the sense of hurrying to meet someone and oppose them.


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## Fred_C

hopojo said:


> the full line is:
> _postea per exploratores certior factus postero die castra movit, *breviore itinere se occurrere ei posse sperans.*_
> 
> the translation is meant to be:
> _but having afterward got true intelligence from his scouts, he decamped the day following, *hoping to prevent him by taking a shorter road*_
> 
> my problem is highlighted in bold print.
> occurrere + dative is defined as run up to, to meet someone. how does it come to mean to prevent? to meet and to avoid someone is like two opposite meanings. anyone clarify?
> 
> thanks


 
Hi, this is very strange :
When I read your excerpt, I understood it the way you did, actually meaning the contrary of the way it is translated.
Then I made a search on the Internet, and I found a french translation of the same paragraph : (http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/La_Guerre_civile_-_Livre_III?match=la)
"avec l'espoir de le prévenir en prenant un chemin plus court."

I do not know if you understand French, but they used the french verb "prévenir", which actually means "to warn". And the meaning woud therefore be : "hoping to warn him by taking a shorter road", which is the way we both understood the latin text.

Now I am not an expert in English, but I cannot help noticing that "to prevent" and "prévenir" are cognates.
My question is : Can the English verb "prevent" be used to mean "to warn" ?


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## Cagey

Greetings Fred C.,

I found this line in its context: _Ceasar's Civil Wars_.  Pompey is getting the information from the scouts: Caesar is _ei_, the person Pompey hopes to hopes to meet, "confront" as this translation has it.  (Caesar, of course, outwits him.) The hostile sense seems to be what is wanted. (SOURCE: _Ceasar's Civil Wars_, trans. A. G. Peskett. 1914)

And no, English "prevent" would not be understood as "to warn".


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## Hamlet2508

hopojo said:


> my problem is highlighted in bold print.
> occurrere + dative is defined as run up to, to meet someone. *how does it come to mean to prevent?* to meet and to avoid someone is like two opposite meanings.



I don't think the translation here is in keeping with the original,since *occurrere* ,especially when found in Caesar's Commentaries and the Civil Wars generally means "hasten to meet, meet up with"
[as can also be seen in de bell.civ. III,8]
There might be a suggestion of meeting up with somebody *in order to prevent* him from doing something,but translating "occurrere" by "to prevent" would exceed the boundaries of concise translation.


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## modus.irrealis

The use of "prevent" there seemed odd to me and now I think it's an archaic use. Dictionary.com says "prevent" can mean "precede" or "anticipate" (which also seem to be archaic meanings of _prévenir_). Whether _occurro_ can have that meaning in Latin doesn't seem clear to me from this dictionary entry.


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## Cagey

modus.irrealis said:


> Whether _occurro_ can have that meaning in Latin doesn't seem clear to me from this dictionary entry.



None of the relevant examples invite the translation "to get there first", although clearly that would often be the intention.  As I see it, _occurro_ directs our attention to a rush to _encounter_ the other party. There is room for interpretive judgment about the tone of the encounter. "_Ob-_" as a prefix can mean "against/ in opposition", but it doesn't always.


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## Hamlet2508

modus.irrealis said:


> The use of "prevent" there seemed odd to me and now I think it's an archaic use. Dictionary.com says "prevent" can mean "precede" or "anticipate" (which also seem to be archaic meanings of _prévenir_). Whether _occurro_ can have that meaning in Latin doesn't seem clear to me from this dictionary entry.



I had a look there and as far as I can tell *occurrere *, at least in classical Latin, doesn't translate as "prevent".
regards,
hamlet


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## Mezzofanti

The word "prevent" used in the translation is dated English - here meaning "anticipate" or "get in first". It is a perfectly good translation for "occurrere" in the context. I.e. an eighteenth century English speaker would understand it to mean what Caesar in fact intended.


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