# Till death do us part



## Outsider

This question is motivated by the discussions in this thread and this thread.

I would like to know what is the *tense* and the *mood* of the verb in this sentence, in your language.

In Portuguese, it's _Até que a morte nos separe_. The verb _separe_, is in the present tense of the subjunctive mood.

Thanks in advance.


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## David

future tense (archaic use of do instead of will or shall as auxiliary verb indicating futurity), subjunctive mood.

Indicative mood "death us _does_ part"
Subjunctive mood, "death _do_ us part.

Remember this is XVII century English. In modern English, it would be "until death parts us" (indicative because the subjunctive is not used much anymore, but properly in the subjunctive "until death part us...")


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## karuna

*Latvian: 

*_Līdz nāve mūs šķirs.
šķirs _(infinitive: _šķirt_) – future tense, indicative mood.


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## Frank06

Hi,

In *Dutch*:
Tot de dood ons _scheidt_.
*
scheidt*
- mood: indicative
- tense: present

Till fairly recently, a subjunctive was used, at least in formal / written language (e.g. Conscience, 1851, "tot dat de dood ons _scheide_"). In contemporary Dutch, the subjunctive mood isn't productive anymore; it can only be found in a few expressions.

Groetjes,

Frank


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## jun

*Korean*:
죽음이 우리를 갈라놓을 때까지 -> future tense


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## Etcetera

In Russian: Пока смерть не разлучит нас. It's the future tense.


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## DrWatson

*Finnish:
*Kunnes kuolema meidät _erottaa

_verb_: erottaa
¤ _tense: present
¤ mood: indicative


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

In *Slovene*:
Dokler naju smrt ne loči.

verb: loči /_infinitive ločiti_/
- mood: indicative
- tense: present

Oh, I hope, Outsider, that you are talking about the common marriage promiss where two people are involved.
If you mean the real plural with three or more people involved, the sentence should be: _Dokler nas smrt ne loči_. Tense and mood stay the same.


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## Thomas1

As you probably already know we, and I am fairly sure that none of the Slavic fellows in their languages as well, don't use the subjunctive in *Polish*:
_Dopóki śmierć nas nie rozłączy._
tense: future
mood: indicative

Tom


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## Jana337

Czech: Dokud nás smrt nerozdělí. A perfective verb in the indicative, future. Like in other Slavic languages. 

Jana


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## Outsider

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Oh, I hope, Outsider, that you are talking about the common marriage promiss where two people are involved.
> If you mean the real plural with three or more people involved, the sentence should be: _Dokler nas smrt ne lo?i_. Tense and mood stay the same.


Yes, if your language has dual number you may assume that this is part of a marriage vow.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Jana337 said:


> A perfective verb in the indicative, future. Like in other Slavic languages.
> 
> Jana


Are you sure about the common tense?

In Slovene we use present tense. The future would look like this: _dokler naju smrt ne bo ločila_.
And further... I've just checked verb mood in Slovene. There are three: indicative, conditional and imperative. The other two could hardly be used for a promiss.


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## Thomas1

Etcetera said:


> In Russian: Пока смерть не разлучит нас. It's the future tense...


...of the indicative mood, I suppose. 



Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Are you sure about the common tense?
> 
> In Slovene we use present tense. The future would look like this: _dokler naju smrt ne bo ločila_.
> And further... I've just checked verb mood in Slovene. There are three: indicative, conditional and imperative. The other two could hardly be used for a promiss.


Actually, I was thinking when I read your post why you had used the present here. 
How would you describe the difference between them? 
Would you translate them differently into English? 
Is the use of present (in this case) more common? And does it sound better with the present?

Tom


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## Jana337

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Are you sure about the common tense?
> 
> In Slovene we use present tense. The future would look like this: _dokler naju smrt ne bo ločila_.
> And further... I've just checked verb mood in Slovene. There are three: indicative, conditional and imperative. The other two could hardly be used for a promiss.


Isn't it a perfective verb whose future is etymologically present?

If not, I apologize for inappropriate generalizations.


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## Flaminius

Japanese:
死が我らを分かつまで
shi-ga warera-o wakatsu made
Death-NOM we-ACC part untill

The verb is unmarked tense (the other tense/aspect for Japanese verb is perfective/past).  Mood is a category irrelevant to Japanese.


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## jester.

German: Bis dass der Tod uns scheidet.

The verb is in the present tense of the indicative mood. But the subjunctive mood ("scheide") is equally possible, although less often used, I think.


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## Mutichou

Outsider said:


> In Portuguese, it's _Até que a morte nos separe_. The verb _separe_, is in the present tense of the subjunctive mood.


We also use the present tense of the subjunctive mood in French: _Jusqu'à ce que la mort nous sépare_.


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## Aserolf

En español es:
*"Hasta que la muerte nos separe"*


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## ameana7

In Turkish, it is "Ölüm bizi ayırıncaya dek." The verb "ayırmak" means "part" and it is in present tense and indicative.


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## amikama

Hebrew:

*עד שהמוות יפריד בינינו*

Tense: future
There is no indicative/subjunctive distinction in Hebrew.


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## Kassikakk

Estonian:

Kuni surm meid lahutab.

'lahutama' is in present tense and indicative.


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## Jayjay

Danish:

Til døden os skiller
mood: indicative 
tense: (form= present, funktion= future)


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## jaxineau

Traditional Chinese
分開只在死亡時 (=separation only when we die)
or
即使死亡也無法將我們分開 (=even death will not be able to separate us)


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## mplsray

Esperanto: _ĝis la morto nin separos._ Future tense, "until death us will-separate."


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## unefemme1

What about French? Does anyone know the French translation or perhaps the equivilent?


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## jazyk

> What about French? Does anyone know the French translation or perhaps the equivilent?


Go back one page.


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Jana337 said:


> Isn't it a perfective verb whose future is etymologically present?
> 
> If not, I apologize for inappropriate generalizations.


 
Jana and Thomas,
I cannot go further until I consult some grammar books. I hope you can wait as I'm at work now and all my relevant books are hard copies living their own lives on the bookshelf at home.  
But I guess, Jana, you could be right. I've checked the Peter Herrity's Slovene and there's a subtitle "6.22 The use of present tense forms of perfective verbs". This is exactly the point I'll start looking for the answer.

Jana, I re-read your comment. It should be vv I guess: a perfective verb whose present can act like future.


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## Billopoulos

In Greek:

_Μέχρι να μας χωρίσει ο θάνατος._


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## betulina

In Catalan: "Fins que la mort ens separi" -Present tense, subjunctive mood.


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## Lemminkäinen

Jayjay said:


> Danish:
> 
> Til døden os skiller
> mood: indicative
> tense: (form= present, funktion= future)



Norwegian:
*Til døden skiller oss (ad)*

It's similar to Danish in using the present form to express the future tense.

Edit: Might as well add some things about it - this is, after all, a language forum  

It literally means "until the death separates us". One interesting feature is how the verb stem has been separated from the prefix - the verb 'to separate' is *å adskille* (also *atskille* in contemporary Norwegian), but it's (mostly) synonymous with *å skille*. 
Anyway, some Norwegian verbs with prefixes allow for separation of the stem and prefix, but some don't. *Å atskille* is one of those that doesn't, but apparently it did previously.


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## Thomas1

Tolovaj_Mataj said:


> Jana and Thomas,
> I cannot go further until I consult some grammar books. I hope you can wait as I'm at work now and all my relevant books are hard copies living their own lives on the bookshelf at home.
> But I guess, Jana, you could be right. I've checked the Peter Herrity's Slovene and there's a subtitle "6.22 The use of present tense forms of perfective verbs". This is exactly the point I'll start looking for the answer.
> 
> Jana, I re-read your comment. It should be vv I guess: a perfective verb whose present can act like future.


Hi Tolovaj,

I checked a few grammars of Slovene language (sorry I couldn't help myself ) and if I am not making any blunder the future tense is formed by the auxiliary (_bíti_) which is in the future tense plus _l_ participle of a verb.
And here we have:


> _dokler naju smrt ne bo ločila._


_bo __ločila_
I guess that _bo_ is the third form of _bíti_ in the future tense and _ločila_ is the feminine form of _l_ participle which is formed from the stem of the infinitive.
My guess is also that _ločiti_ is the (perfect?) infinitive of _ločila_, but I’d really like someone to verify this. I think that the present tense form of the third person sigular is: _loči_.
Now, let’s wait for Tolovaj and see if he's going to lambast me. 

Thomas


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## Bienvenidos

*Persian/Farsi:
*
Tâ ke marg mâra jedâkena

*jedâkena - present subjunctive
(do us part)

Tâ ke - phrase calling the subjunctive (until)

marg - "doer" of the sentence

mâra - "us" direct object pronoun
*


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## Tolovaj_Mataj

Thomas1 said:


> Hi Tolovaj,
> 
> I checked a few grammars of Slovene language (sorry I couldn't help myself ) and if I am not making any blunder the future tense is formed by the auxiliary (_bíti_) which is in the future tense plus _l_ participle of a verb.
> And here we have:
> _bo __ločila_
> I guess that _bo_ is the third form of _bíti_ in the future tense and _ločila_ is the feminine form of _l_ participle which is formed from the stem of the infinitive.
> My guess is also that _ločiti_ is the (perfect?) infinitive of _ločila_, but I’d really like someone to verify this. I think that the present tense form of the third person sigular is: _loči_.
> Now, let’s wait for Tolovaj and see if he's going to lambast me.
> 
> Thomas


Odlično, Tom! Excellent!  
No mistake at all.
Yes, _ločiti_ is a perfective form. 
The imperfective form is _ločevati_ and the l-participle is_ ločeval;_ the 3rd person singular in present tense is _ločuje_.

You asked me some difficult questions.



Thomas1 said:


> How would you describe the difference between them?
> Would you translate them differently into English?
> Is the use of present (in this case) more common? And does it sound better with the present?
> 
> Tom


 
In Slovene the future acts like normal future tense in most languages where they have only one futur. It suppose to describe all acts in the future time. But sometimes ... also in English... the present tense takes over this usage. So it's possible to say: _Jutri grem smučat._ (present tense) or: _Jutri bom šel smučat._ (future tense). Both have the very same meaning.

I checked the book in mentioned before, but there's no straight answer. Maybe this could be a satisfactory explanation:


> The present tense of perfective verbs is used in proverbs, sayings, instructions, rules, laws and statements, which are empirical truths.


(source: Peter Herrity: Slovene, a Comprehensive Grammar)

I miss _Slovenski pravopis_, it must be somewhere at home, but I cannot find it.


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## gao_yixing

Chinese:誓死不离


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## unefemme1

jazyk said:


> Go back one page.


 
Oh yes, I must have overseen it, thanks


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## Etcetera

Thomas1 said:


> ...of the indicative mood, I suppose.


Yes, exactly.
Thanks for mentioning that.


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## irene.acler

In Italian: Fin che morte non ci separi - Present tense, subjunctive mood.


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## mambo_italiano

In Romanian: 

Pana ce moartea ne va desparţi.


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## tanzhang

In Tagalog:

Till death do us part - Kamatayan pa man ang maghihiwalay satin.

I think that's it...


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## mateo19

Good evening, fellow forum dwellers!
I've noticed a great deal of diverse languages represented in this post, but I didn't see the Latin equivalent. Could anyone contribute the Latin translation of "Until death do us part?"  I'd love to see what tense and mood a classical Latin poet would use to utter such an idea. Thank you!  Vobis ago gratias!

Here is my try: Usque ad mortem nos separandum.

If this translation is well done, the verb isn't conjugated exactly the way we think about it. It's subordinated by the preposition and is an accusitive form of the gerund (governed by "ad") with the idea of finality. Feel free to correct me whoever wants to!


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## jana.bo99

Croatian:  Dok nas smrt ne rastavi!

German:   Bis dass der Tod uns scheidet!


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## jazyk

This suggests _Dum no disiungat mors_ in Latin.


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## mateo19

jazyk said:


> This suggests _Dum no disiungat mors_ in Latin.



Thank you for finding that link, Jazyk!  I also like the translation "Dum nos disiungat mors", but I'm not going to disown the "Usque ad mortem. . . ". I think that dum is a more general preposition because it also means "while" such as in "dum spiro spero". Enquanto respiro, espero. (né?)  I think I'll rest my case. I'm pretty happy with these answers, but if anyone else is interested in the Latin, I opened a new post in the Latin forum:
http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=728833


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## mplsray

A friend of mine who is a deacon in the Anglican Church told me that "till death us do part" appears in the Book of Common Prayer, so I went looking in a 1560 Latin online version of the book here.

In the Solemnization of Matrimony, when the husband takes the wife, the Latin version contains: "donec mors nos separaverit."

When the wife takes the husband, the Latin version contains: "donec mors nos separavit."

Perhaps the difference between the two will be explained in the Latin forum thread here to which I also replied.


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## chriskardos

in Hungarian: amíg a halál el nem választ!


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## Encolpius

*Slovak*: Kým nás smrť nerozdelí.


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