# flute, pipe



## ThomasK

How do you translate these musical instruments? They are often based on the word for pipe or tube, by the way...

Dutch: *fluit *-- and *doedelzak *(bagpipe)
English : *flute *-- and *bagpipe *(pipe !)
German: *Flöte *but also *Pfeife *(whistle & pipe) --- and *Dudelsack*

They are tubas too, but those refer to tubes & music but not to flutes.)


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## ilocas2

Czech:

flute - *flétna*
bagpipes - *dudy*, *gajdy*​ (dialectal)
trumpet - *trubka* (pipe), *trumpeta*


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## apmoy70

In Greek:

*Flute*: «Φλάουτο» ['fla.uto] (neut.) an Italian loan < flauto (when referring to the brass orchestra instrument). The traditional instrument (made of wood or cane) for playing Greek folk music is called, i) «αυλός» [a'vlos] (masc.) which is an ancient masc. noun «αὐλός» au'lŏs --> _any hollow tube_ (PIE base *awl-, _any hollow cavity_; cf. Lat. alvus), ii) «σουραύλι» [su'ravli] (neut.) from the Hellenistic «συραύλιον» sŭ'raulīŏn, a compound; «σῦριγξ» 'sūrĭnx (fem.) --> _shepherd's pipe, Panspipe_ (PIE base *twōu-/*tūl-, _pipe_; cf. Skt. तूणव (tunava), _flute_) + «αὐλός» au'lŏs, iii) «φλογέρα» [flo'ʝera] (fem.) an Aromanian loan < flojere.
*Pipe*: For the Scottish bagpipe we use the feminine noun «γκάϊντα» ['ga.inda] a Turkish loan < gayda. The traditional Greek instrument (made of animal skin and wooden blowstick and chanter) for playing folk music is called, i) «άσκαυλος» ['askavlos] (masc.) which is an ancient masc. noun «ἄσκαυλος» ăskaulŏs, a compound; «ἀσκός» ă'skŏs (masc.) --> _skin made into a bag, wineskin_ (with obscure etymology) + «αὐλός» au'lŏs, ii) «ασκομαντούρα» [askoman'dura] (fem.) & «ασκομπαντούρα» [askomban'dura] (fem.) which is a word in the Cretan regiolect, a compound; «ἀσκός» ă'skŏs (masc.) + «μαντούρα» [man'dura] or «μπαντούρα» [ban'dura], which derives from the ancient fem. noun «πανδοῦρα» păn'doură --> _ancient lute_ (in the Cretan dialect «μαντούρα» stands for the wooden chanter), iii) «τσαμπούνα» [t͡sam'buna] (fem.) in the regiolect of some Greek isles (e.g Naxos, Rhodes etc.), an Italian loan < zampogna (bagpipe)


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## rusita preciosa

In Russian they are not related to "pipe":

flute: *флейта */fleyta/ - a loan from Dutch

bagpipe: *волынка* /volynka/ - from the region of Volhynia in Ukraine and Poland. 
(There is a colloquial verb *волынить / волыниться */volynit' / volynitsia/ meaning "to do something too slowly / procrastinate", not sure what the connection is - may be waiting for someone who takes their time is as annoying as bagpipe music )



There is a wind instrument that literally means "pipe": *труба* /truba/ - trumpet


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## mataripis

In dumaget, there is "Kulibyaw", a musical instrument made of Thin bamboo called "buho". It is not common to most Filipinos.


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## ThomasK

I am very surprised at some things:
- has the Dutch word been borrowed by Russian? I know there are some Dutch words that have been borrowed in the marine branch, but also here? 
- Dutch 'fluit' seems to be a loan from French (origin unclear, maybe onomatopaic, linked with _flare_, blow ?)
- there is a huge variety of words for _bagpipe_, so it seems
- as for _buho_, flute: aren't there any wind instruments in the Philippines? I'd be surprised but of course I do not know the culture...


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> I am very surprised at some things:
> - has the Dutch word been borrowed by Russian? I know there are some Dutch words that have been borrowed in the marine branch, but also here? .



According to Max Vasmer only "masculine form" (флейт) was loaned from Dutch _fluit_. Modern "feminine form" (флета > флейта) was loaned from German _Flötе_. 
As for your question, not only nautical terms were loaned from Dutch, but many other technical and everyday terms as well, such as зонт < зонтик < zondek (originally 'tent above the deck') - umbrella, апельсин < appelsien - orange, абрикос <  abrikoos - apricot, брюки < broek - trousers, ситец < sits - printed cutton, квитанция < kvitantie - receipt, etc.


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## ThomasK

Great information, thanks a lot! But how come you make a distinction between a masculine and a feminine form?


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Great information, thanks a lot! But how come you make a distinction between a masculine and a feminine form?


In Russian feminine and masculine forms of nouns usually differ in Nom. ending: the former ends on the vowel (флейта - [fleita]), the latter - on the hard consonant (флейт - [fleit]). It can be not like that with some animative and loaned nouns, and in case of nouns ending on a soft consonant one should just remember the gender,  but in case of флейт/флейта any native will immediately know the gender.


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## ThomasK

Maroseika said:


> In Russian feminine and masculine forms of nouns usually differ in Nom. ending: the former ends on the vowel (флейта - [fleita]), the latter - on the hard consonant (флейт - [fleit]). It can be not like that with some animative and loaned nouns, and in case of nouns ending on a soft consonant one should just remember the gender, but in case of флейт/флейта any native will immediately know the gender.


Do you have two variants of one word then, with a different gender? (Sorry !)


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Do you have two variants of one word then, with a different gender?


Not at once, of course. Sometimes a word changes its gender with time, usually it happens to the loaned words. For example key button: Masc. клавиш [klavish] > Fem. клавиша [klavisha] (from Latin clavis (maybe thru Polish klawisz)). Nowadays клавиш is obsolete and флейт is archaic.
But for animate nouns we often (in most cases, actually) have Fem. and Masc. variants. Usually Fem. variant is formed by use of the additional suffix, but anyway there is always a Fem. ending, too.



> (Sorry !)


No reason to be sorry. We are not ashamed of it at all.


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## Encolpius

*Hungarian*: *fluit *= *fuvola*; *doedelzak *= *duda*


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## ThomasK

Your 'duda' reminded me of the 'doedel' and I now discover indeed that etymologiebank.nl refers to Turkish _düdük_, flute (!) and to _doedelen_, some kind of humming in Dutch. Wonder if our Turkish 'representatives' ;-) can tell us more!


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> Your 'duda' reminded me of the 'doedel' and I now discover indeed that etymologiebank.nl refers to Turkish _düdük_, flute (!) and to _doedelen_, some kind of humming in Dutch. Wonder if our Turkish 'representatives' ;-) can tell us more!


Hungarian word is most likely the loan from Slavic (such as Russian дуда [duda],  Slovenian dúda, Polish dudy, - musical pipe, and further Lithuanian *daudà, daudýtė - reed pipe). Coincidence with Turkish _düdük _is reckoned ot be just occasional. The word is encountered in many Slavic languages and said to originate from Old Slavic *duti - to blow.


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## ThomasK

I now discover that etymologiebank.nl mentions those words, but assumes they are all based on Turkish. Would you have cournterevidence? That might be quite interesting.


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## Maroseika

ThomasK said:


> I now discover that etymologiebank.nl mentions those words, but assumes they are all based on Turkish. Would you have cournterevidence? That might be quite interesting.


If you can read Russian you can check in the most recent and full Russian etymological dictionary. It says both Slavic _duda _and Turkic _düdük_ are independent onomatopetic words. More early dictionaries of Max Vasmer and Pavel Chernykh derivate it from *duti - to blow. But all of them distinctly differ between Slavic and Turkic words. So I'm afraid etymologiebank.nl is wrong.


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## ThomasK

Don't worry. I'll be pleased to suggest a correction and refer to this site! There was a reference to onomatopeia as for flute (_flare_, also to blow), but this is another interesting aspect. Thanks for the information. I have just passed the information on.


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## Gavril

Finnish
_huilu_ "flute"
_pilli _"whistle/pipe" (only used for "pipe" in the musical sense, I think)
_säkkipilli _"bagpipe"


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## OneStroke

Chinese:
Flute - 長笛 (chang2di2, unable to type the tones at the moment)
Bagpipes - 風笛 (feng1di2)
Like the character 琴, di was originally used exclusively for the di (Chinese flute) but now it can refer to different Western instruments after adding another morpheme in front of it. Changdi means 'long di' and fengdi means 'wind di'. Funny how that reminds me of the trachea!  (Wind-pipe)


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## Alderamin

In Portuguese:
Flute: _Flauta_
Pipe: _Pífaro_


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## Frank78

ThomasK said:


> German: *Flöte *but also *Pfeife *(whistle & pipe) --- and *Dudelsack*



It seems a little tricky between English and German. Perhaps someone can enlighten me what the difference between a flute and a pipe is?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pipe_(instrument) - These would also be "Flöten" in German.

To my knowledge a "Pfeife" can only produce a single sound. You cannot play a melody with it, e.g. "Pfeifen" are used by referees and as organ pipes (Orgelpfeife).


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## Gavril

Frank78 said:


> It seems a little tricky between English and German. Perhaps someone can enlighten me what the difference between a flute and a pipe is?



I think "pipe" is a broader and less formal term than "flute". Here are the relevant definitions from Random House:

pipe:


> _Music _.*a.*a tube used as, or to form an essential part of, a musical wind instrument.
> 
> *b.*a musical wind instrument consisting of a single tube of straw, reed, wood, or other material, as a flute, clarinet, or oboe.
> 
> *c.*one of the wooden or metal tubes from which the tones of an organ are produced.
> 
> *d.*a small end-blown flute played with one hand while the other beats a small drum.​




​
flute:


> *1.*a musical wind instrument consisting of a tube with a seriesof fingerholes or keys, in which the wind is directed against asharp edge, either directly, as in the modern transverseflute, or through a flue, as in the recorder.
> 
> *2.*an organ stop with wide flue pipes, having a flute like tone.
> ​





> To my knowledge a "Pfeife" can only produce a single sound. You cannot play a melody with it, e.g. "Pfeifen" are used by referees



A referee uses a "whistle" in English, not a pipe. Unlike a pipe, a whistle isn't usually a long tube, but a more compact object like this.


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## Frank78

I don't think there's a German word for pipe then.

The closest I can come up with is "Holzblasinstrument" (woodwind instrument) but this would also include saxophones.


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## rayloom

The generic Arabic word is مزمار _mizmaar_. Modern instruments have usually foreign names in Arabic.
An old borrowing into Arabic is the Ney (Arabic ناي _naay_, from Persian).


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