# East Asian languages: numbers



## vince

Hello everyone,

How do you say the following numbers in East Asian languages:
One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Nine Ten
Eleven Twelve Thirteen ... Nineteen Twenty Twenty-one
Thirty Forty ... Ninety
Hundred
Thousand
Ten Thousand
Hundred Thousand
Million

I am curious as to why many genetically unrelated East Asian languages use the same numbers, I thought numbers were a basic part of the language that resisted change? Or did one East Asian language "teach" the rest how to count? It's funny because Basque (Basque) numbers sound nothing like Spanish/French/Catalan (Indo-European) numbers, yet Thai (Tai-Kadai) numbers sound like Cantonese (Sino-Tibetan) numbers.

* Here are the Mandarin numbers:*
1: yi 2: er 3: san 4: si 5: wu 6: liu 7: qi 8: ba 9: jiu 10: shi 11: shi-yi (ten-one) 12: shi-er (ten-two) 13: shi-san (ten-three) 14: shi-si (ten-four)...
20: er-shi (two-ten) 21: er-shi-yi (two-ten-one) 30: san-shi (three-ten) 40: si-shi
 (four ten)

100: yi bai (one hundred)
1000: yi qian (one thousand)
10000 yi wan (one "tenthousand" ("myriad") )
100000: shi wan (ten "tenthousand")

* Cantonese numbers* (same counting system as Mandarin):
1: jat 2: ji 3: saam 4: sei 5: m 6: lok 7: cat 8: baat 9: gau 10: sap
11: sap-jat 12: sap-ji 13: sap-saam
20: ji-sap 21: ji-sap-jat 30: saam-sap
100: jat baat
1000: jat cin
10000: jat maan
100000: sap maan

EDIT: Fixed incorrect Mandarin pinyin spelling


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## J. Harvey88

Well, I'm in a Japanese class, and one through ten are:

1: ichi 
2: ni 
3: san 
4: shi (less of a sh sound, more of an s sound). Also pronounced yon. 
5: go 
6: roku 
7: shichi [or nana] 
8: hachi 
9: qyuu or qu[?]
10: jyuu or ju.

Numbers 20, 30, 40, etc. are formed by adding the number, and then 10. 20 would be ni ju. 30, yon ju. And so on. 35 would be san ju go.


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## vince

^^ Here is the first example: Japanese is a Japonic language, yet it has numbers derived from the same source as the Chinese numbers!!!


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## J. Harvey88

Quite a lot of the Japanese writing system as a whole was brought by Buddhist monks to Japan in about the 700s. Depending on context, a kanji can be pronounced the same as its Chinese equivalent, or it can be given a Japanese pronunciation.

I love how languages on other parts of the globe are so similar sometimes. Like the Gaelic Cead Mille Feilte, meaning 100,000 welcomes. Well, in Latin, Cent is 100, and mille, 1000... simply amazing.


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## vince

Yeah but Gaelic is a Celtic language which is Indo-European just like Latin. If you compare languages like India's Sanskrit to Greek and Latin you will also see similarities, but that's to be expected.

Whereas languages like Thai, Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese have no relation to Mandarin yet their numbers are derived from the same place somehow. I understand that frequent trade contact can cause languages to exchange vocabulary, but i would think that such basic words like numbers would stay fixed?


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## J. Harvey88

When the Buddhist monks brought the writing system, the numbers were included, and the Japanese adopted the better part of the Chinese pronunciation for the new numbers.


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## Dalian

> 7: chi
> 9: jiou
> 10000 yi man (one "tenthousand" ("myriad") )
> 100000: shi man (ten "tenthousand")


Hi Vince, 
There are a few misspellings in your thread about numbers in Mandarin pinyin.
7 qi
9 jiu
10000 yi wan
100000 shi wan

Regards
Dalian


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## toscairn

Vince, that's a very good question.

Contrary to what you may believe, there is *the other type of* counting both in Korean and Japanese. Browse any introductory textbooks for both languages and you'll find it out.

And I'd think the counting system of both Japanese and Korean didn't come from China, but 匈奴 (隋, 唐 were ruled by 匈奴）.


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## Dalian

Konbanwa toscairn,

Sui and Tang Dynasties were definitely not ruled by the Huns, who were a group of minorities inhabiting north China at that time.
For the dynasties starting from Sui （隋）, they were ruled by:
Sui （隋, 581-618）: Chinese
Tang （唐, 618-907）: Chinese
Song （宋, 960-1279）: Chinese
Yuan （元, 1206-1368）: Mongols
Ming （明, 1368-1644）: Chinese
Qing （清, 1616-1911）: Manchu

Regards
Dalian


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## erick

The thing about Japanese numbers that can be confusing is that we count in 10,000 rather than 1,000.
For example in English:
1,000 = one thousand
10,000 = ten thousand
100,000 = one hundred thousand
1,000,000 = one million, or a thousand thousands (I say this for comparison)

In Japanese we use 万 = 10,000.  We have 千 = sen = 1,000 but do not say 百千 hyakusen.

1,000 = sen 千
10,000 = man 万
100,000 = 十万 = ten ten thousand or jyu-man
1,000,000 = 百万 = hyakuman = one hundred ten thousand

My mother always gets confused when she tries to speak in dollars, and uses "1" or "10" meaning "10" or "100" because her brain is Japanese and accustomed to counting with 万.

I don't know how it is in the rest of Asia.  Is it the same or different?

Edit: I notice from Vince's post that the Chinese count in the same manner we do in Japanese.


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## Pivra

Do you count Thai as "east" too?


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## Flaminius

Thailand is in my reckoning a South *East *Asian country.  By all means, tell us how they count in Thai, Pivra.


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## MingRaymond

Dalian said:
			
		

> Konbanwa toscairn,
> 
> Sui and Tang Dynasties were definitely not ruled by the Huns, who were a group of minorities inhabiting north China at that time.
> For the dynasties starting from Sui （隋）, they were ruled by:
> Sui （隋, 581-618）: Chinese
> Tang （唐, 618-907）: Chinese
> Song （宋, 960-1279）: Chinese
> Yuan （元, 1206-1368）: Mongols
> Ming （明, 1368-1644）: Chinese
> Qing （清, 1616-1911）: Manchu
> 
> Regards
> Dalian


 
Is Vince using Wade-giles?


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## MingRaymond

Quote:
7: chi 
9: jiou 
10000 yi man (one "tenthousand" ("myriad") )
100000: shi man (ten "tenthousand")

Hi Vince, 
There are a few misspellings in your thread about numbers in Mandarin pinyin.
7 qi
9 jiu
10000 yi wan
100000 shi wan

Regards
Dalian 


Is Vince using Wade-giles?


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## Dalian

It can't be Wade-giles, because in Wade-giles, 

7 qi --> ch'i
9 jiu --> chiu


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## vince

no, I just forgot the correct Pinyin transcriptions, okay I will go correct them.

Please post Thai, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Laotian, Khmer, etc

I am aware that Japanese has another set of numbers, but isn't the one that is related to the Mandarin ones also used in everyday spoken language? I never claimed that all of these derived from China, just that they have the same forms as the ones in Mandarin.

They certainly didn't evolve from Mandarin.
I believe the original numbers had a "m" sound for 5 and 10000. This changed to a "w" sound in Mandarin that isn't present in the numbers 5 and 10000 in other languages, e.g. Cantonese "m" and "maan".

my big question is:
*Which East-Asian languages have the same (or mostly the same) numbers and counting system, and why?*


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## Pivra

So is my country in the East of Southern Asia or in the South of Eastern Asia lol?

In Thai if you want to express an idea and make number and noun into one word then there is a different set of counting.
๐=0= sunya= sunya
๑=1= neung= ek
๒=2=song= do
๓=3=sam= tri
๔=4=see= chatu
๕=5=ha= pañcha
๖=6=hok= hacha
๗=7=jed= sapa
๘=8=pad= asda
๙=9=kao= nawa
๑๐=10=sip= dosa

Like:
8 books = Samud pad lem.
but *1 *week(*7* days)* Neung* *Sapa*dah (dah is a suffix for day)
๐(0) can also be use to express an idea of "not having" or "not being" 
for example 

*Sunyatta* means without body (not permanent or not owning anything) 
is a combination of the word *Sunya*(zero)+ *Atta*(self)
*Sunya* can also means center like the word Sunklang, where the "ya" becomes a mute alphabet and join with the word *-klang*, which means middle.

Laotian is pretty much like Thai *(*wait, Laotian* IS* Thai but without the complicate number+ noun joining, prefix, suffix, vocab. castes, nonsense spelling, Sanskrit wannabe systems*)*. Some numbers are different such as 

1= ai
2= yee

Khmer system goes by 5

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5+1, 5+2, 5+3, 5+4... and so on so on.


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## vince

Pivra said:
			
		

> So is my country in the East of Southern Asia or in the South of Eastern Asia lol?
> 
> In Thai if you want to express an idea and make number and noun into one word then there is a different set of counting.
> ๐=0= sunya= sunya
> ๑=1= neung= ek
> ๒=2=song= do
> ๓=3=sam= tri
> ๔=4=see= chatu
> ๕=5=ha= pañcha
> ๖=6=hok= hacha
> ๗=7=jed= sapa
> ๘=8=pad= asda
> ๙=9=kao= nawa
> ๑๐=10=ten= dosa


Wow, this is really interesting, the first set of numbers is clearly East Asian for most numbers (just compare with the Cantonese numbers) while the second set is clearly Indo-European like English, Russian, and Spanish, perhaps these numbers are from Sanskrit?

Cantonese numbers:
1 = jat
2 = ji (w/ nouns it becomes "loeng")
3 = saam
4 = sei
5 = m
6 = lok
7 = cat
8 = baat
9 = kau
10 = sap


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## Pivra

vince said:
			
		

> Wow, this is really interesting, the first set of numbers is clearly East Asian for most numbers (just compare with the Cantonese numbers) while the second set is clearly Indo-European like English, Russian, and Spanish, perhaps these numbers are from Sanskrit?
> 
> Cantonese numbers:
> 1 = jat
> 2 = ji (w/ nouns it becomes "loeng")
> 3 = saam
> 4 = sei
> 5 = m
> 6 = lok
> 7 = cat
> 8 = baat
> 9 = kau
> 10 = sap


 
btw. 10 is sib in Thai lol ... I accidentally typed ten lol.
I think they are from Sanskrit. But the numbers are pronounced differently in Sanskrit. More than 60% (or about 60%) of Thai words are Indo- European words.

I can list some that are really Sino words and really Indo European words in Thai.

Danta= teeth IE
Sira= head IE
Deva= god IE
Mai= No, or "or not?" Sino
Maew= cat Sino
Samudra= sea IE
Suriya= sun IE
Chandra= moon IE
Laew= already Sino
Ma= horse Sino
Aswa= horse IE
Krung= city Sino (kua, i think lol, might not relates)
Tara= Star IE
Nam= Name IE
Ku= I (3rd level) (aku) Malay
Dwi= Twice IE
Chai= Yes, Sino
Tua= You ....what to you think lol tu tu tu tu

I guess there are abit more words that sound like a Sino-ish words but I just don't really know them.

If we were tought to count like you said, then I guess both the Aryans and the Chinese have tought us lol. Actually Thailand and Laos are the only two officially claimed Tai-Kadai speaking countries others happens to be Tai Ahom in Assam, India, Xihongbanna, in China, Burmese states, all except Burma, and parts of Kelantan.


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## Dalian

The similar counting systems in East Asia (Mandarin, Cantonese, Japanese, Korean, and Thai) evolve from Old and Middle Chinese. 
Cantonese (like many other dialects in South China) preserves lots of phonological features of Middle Chinese, like plosive endings and m-ending at the end of a syllable. While plosive endings and m-ending disappeared in Mandarin, which is believed to have evolved further from Middle Chinese. And the traces of consonantal endings can be seen in the Chinese-origin words in Japanese and Korean too, though they have gone through some changes. This consistency is quite clear when it comes to numbers:

Mandarin: yi, er, san, si, wu, liu, qi, ba, jiu, shi
Cantonese: yat, yi, sam, sei, ng, lok, tsat, bat, gau, sap
Japanese: ichi, ni, san, shi, go, roku, shichi, hachi, ku/kyuu, juu
Korean: il, i, sam, sa, o, yuk, chil, pal, gu, sip

And here I list the numbers in some other southern Chinese varieties:
Shanghai: i?, lia, se, sz, ng, lo?, chi?, pa?, ji, si?
Xiamen: chit, ng, sã, si, go, lak, chit, poe?, kau, tsap
Hakka: yt, ñi, sam, si, ng, liuk, tsit, pat, kiu, ship
(? stands for a glottal stop)

At last, an approximate phonetic values of Middle Chinese, by Karlgren:
iet, nzhi, sam, si, nguo, lyuk, tsyet, pwat, kyeu, shyep

So the common East Asian numbers generally follow such rules in terms of syllable endings:
1) 1, 7, 8 end in an alveolar plosive -t (Mandarin: disappeared; Korean: evolved into -l; Japanese: evolved into -chi; in some other dialects evolved into a glottal stop)
2) 6 ends in a velar plosive -k (Mandarin: disappeared; Japanese: -ku; or: glottal stop)
3) 10 ends in a bilabial plosive -p (Mandarin: disappeared; Japanese: -u; Shanghainese: glottal stop)
4) 3 ends in a bilabial nasal -m (Mandarin, Japanese: evolved into -n; some southern Chinese dialects: evolved into a nasal vowel)

As for the onsets:
1: generally zero consonant
2: often involves a nasal, or zero consonant
3: sam/san (the one with the least discrepancy)
4: s/sh...sibilants
5: often involves a nasal start, in some languages reduced to zero consonant
6: l/r...laterals
7: ch/q/ts...affricates
8: b/p...bilabial plosives
9: k/g...velar plosives (except Mandarin)
10: s/sh...sibilants

The language that is closest to Middle Chinese approximation and that has gone through the least evolution and that conforms to almost all the rules is...Cantonese!


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## Dalian

Tibetan:
1. chig
2. nyi
3. sum
4. shi
5. nga
6. trug
7. dun
8. gyay
9. gu
10. chu

We can still find some connections with other East Asian languages.


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## vince

So the East Asian number system came from Old/Middle Chinese? I understand how its daughter languages like Mandarin and Cantonese would inherit it, and perhaps how sister languages like Tibetan would have a related system, but how is it that totally unrelated languages like Thai, Korean, and Japanese adopted it? I mean Basque, Hungarian, and Finnish have distinctive numbers despite being surrounded by influence from Indo-European neighbors!

What language is Xiamen a dialect of? It is interesting that Middle Chinese 'nguo' underwent the same transition in Xiamen-hua as Japanese did (ng --> go).


EDIT: Xiamen is in Fujian, so i'm guessing it's a dialect of the Min language (the language the English word "tea" comes from). Anyone have  the numbers in other dialects of the Min language like Teocheow-hua, Fuzhou-hua, or Taiwanese Minnan? I'm curious as to whether they have the same sound changes.

EDIT: Shanghainese (of the Wu language) has "lia" for 2? This sounds like it may be related to the dual number marker "兩" in other Chinese languages (e.g. Cantonese 'loeng', Mandarin 'liang'). How would you translate Cantonese 兩隻動物 "loeng zek dongmat" ("two animals") and 第二個 "dai-yi go" ("another") into Shanghainese/Wu? Or does the Wu language lack the distinction that most other Chinese languages have between two 二 (as in the numeral) and two 兩 (as in dual number)?


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## Dalian

Shanghainese does have the 两-二 distinction. 二 is pronounced 'ni'. It doesn't matter whether you say 'i?, lia, se' or 'i? ni se' when counting numbers. (Usually the former, according to a Shanghainese speaker I just asked.)  But for the current topic, I should have used 'ni' in my post. Sorry.

Xiamen-hua is indeed a dialect of Min.

It just might be that China used to have really great influence on its neighboring countries. Japanese and Korean cultures were greatly impacted by that of Chinese. And their languages borrowed a huge number of Chinese words, including numbers. So they each have two sets of numbers:
Japanese
Native: hito, futa, mi...
Chinese: ichi, ni, san...
Korean
Native: hana, dul, set...
Chinese: il, i, sam...
Probably Basque, Finnish and Hungarian speakers were isolated and didn't have as much cultural exchanges in old times? ...just my guess.

Here's a website that might help:
http://www.zompist.com/sino.htm#sino


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## Pivra

Dalian said:
			
		

> It just might be that China used to have really great influence on its neighboring countries. Japanese and Korean cultures were greatly impacted by that of Chinese. And their languages borrowed a huge number of Chinese words, including numbers. So they each have two sets of numbers


 
Doesn't really explain how it got into Tai-Kadai language group. I've always thought that Tai-Kadai is closer to Austric languages. The contact between Siam and Tai states and China had just only started during the 11th century. Perhaps Tai-Kadai is somewhat related to Sino-Tibetan, or perhaps not.

*So they each have two sets of numbers*

How about us  our other set is IE, which is even less likely to be our proper way of counting. So does this mean we don't know how to count until we met the Aryans and the Chinese  ?

Looking at your website, its amazing how Vietnamese Japanese and Korean are not related to Chinese like most Thais would think lol.


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## Dalian

Pivra said:
			
		

> Doesn't really explain how it got into Tai-Kadai language group. I've always thought that Tai-Kadai is closer to Austric languages. The contact between Siam and Tai states and China had just only started during the 11th century. Perhaps Tai-Kadai is somewhat related to Sino-Tibetan, or perhaps not.


It is widely accepted that Tai languages are a branch of Sino-Tibetan family...while some think that they belong to Austroasiatic, or seperate.
Please see this website: http://www.krysstal.com/langfams_sinotibe.html
Anyway, I believe Tai languages are related to Sino-Tibetan. Inside Chinese border there are ethnic groups who speak Tai languages too, like in Guangxi and Yunnan. So I guess the contact is not necessarily between China and Tai 'states'.


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## Dalian

Pivra said:
			
		

> Looking at your website, its amazing how Vietnamese Japanese and Korean are not related to Chinese like most Thais would think lol.


 
Vietnamese is an Austroasiatic language, and Japanese and Korean are generally considered to belong to the Altaic Family. So there syntactic structures differ much from that of Chinese. However, they imported a large number of Chinese words, and the writing system of Japanese even evolved from Chinese characters. No wonder so many people believe they're closely related. Like in my country, many people start to learn Japanese because they think it would be easy and they have no trouble understanding most 'Kanji'...but the more we learn, the more frustrated we feel


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## Pivra

Dalian said:
			
		

> Vietnamese is an Austroasiatic language, and Japanese and Korean are generally considered to belong to the Altaic Family. So there syntactic structures differ much from that of Chinese. However, they imported a large number of Chinese words, and the writing system of Japanese even evolved from Chinese characters. No wonder so many people believe they're closely related. Like in my country, many people start to learn Japanese because they think it would be easy and they have no trouble understanding most 'Kanji'...but the more we learn, the more frustrated we feel


 
Learn Thai lol, its not that far from Chinese (I guess) and it opens your window to Indo Aryan languages too!!


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## toscairn

I never knew that Thai was so like Indo-European! 

Some sources say the original Japanese counting system allowed only up to 10 to be counted, but in fact it's up to at least 99999, according to this site: http://www.sf.airnet.ne.jp/ts/language/number/ancient_japanesej.html(Japanese language)


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## vince

Dalian said:
			
		

> Shanghainese does have the 两-二 distinction. 二 is pronounced 'ni'. It doesn't matter whether you say 'i?, lia, se' or 'i? ni se' when counting numbers. (Usually the former, according to a Shanghainese speaker I just asked.)  But for the current topic, I should have used 'ni' in my post. Sorry.



Hmm I am not sure about that, I have looked at other sources for Shanghainese (Wu) numbers, and most of them list lia or liã as "two". Whereas you never see Cantonese "loeng" or Mandarin "liang" listed for "yi" and "er" respectively, because they are only used to describe two objects.

I am sure that you are well aware that every Chinese character that exists in Written Chinese exists in every Chinese language, but that does not necessarily mean that it is used the same way or used at all outside of the written language. I am suspecting that there IS only one word that Shanghainese people regularly use for two, "lia" 两, and that perhaps 二 is only reserved for other uses and for writing Written Chinese (which is based on Mandarin).

It seems that the Northern (Fuzhou-hua) dialect of Min also uses 两 "lang" 
for two.


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## Oogami

Considering the Japanese uses the very same characters to represent numbers, there has to be some relation at least.

The difference I know would be the inclusion/exclusion of the character "one (一)", and that the Japanese do not use "one hundred thousand".

Example: >>> Japanese >>> Chinese
one dollar >>> 一ドル >>> 一元
ten dollars >>> 十ドル >>> 十元
a hundred dollars >>> 百ドル >>> (一)百元
a thousand dollars >>> 千ドル >>> (一)千元
ten thousand dollars >>> (一)万ドル >>> (一)万元

The other Japanese adaptation would be when the pronounciation of the characters cometime change when counting items from 1 to 10, indicating day of the month, etc. (It usually reverts to the original pattern after 10)
E.g. from:
ichi, ni, san, shi, [一、二、三、四] it goes to:
hitotu, futatu, mittu, yotu [一つ、二つ、三つ、四つ] (counting items) and
tuitachi, futuka, mikka, yokka [一日、二日、三日、四日] (days of the month).

Edit: Gah.. did not see Toscairn's table.
Guess the modern Japanese language figures memorizing a set number till 10 is confusing enough without having to deal with the rest.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Citation:
It is widely accepted that Tai languages are a branch of Sino-Tibetan family...while some think that they belong to Austroasiatic, or seperate.
Please see this website: http://www.krysstal.com/langfams_sinotibe.html
Anyway, I believe Tai languages are related to Sino-Tibetan. Inside Chinese border there are ethnic groups who speak Tai languages too, like in Guangxi and Yunnan. So I guess the contact is not necessarily between China and Tai 'states'   (DALIAN)


I am sorry to disagree with you;these languages are now classified as an independant family; please refer to the following website:y

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tai-Kadai_languages

Moreover it's an accepted fact that the branches Tibetan-Burmese on one hand and Chinese on the other hand seperated from each other about 6000 years ago, growing away more and more, so that these two branches are now quite different.

These are the numbers in :
*TIBETAN * * BURMESE*
1 CHIG TIQ
2 NYI  HNIQ/HNå 
3 SUM                           THOùN
4 SHI                              Lè
5 NGA NGà
6 THRU  CH'AUQ
7 DÜN                           K'UN-HNIQ/HNå
8 GYAY                          SHIQ
9 GUO Kò 
10 DJU                           S'EH 
11 DJU'NYI                       S'EH-TIQ
20 NYI SHU                        HNåS'EH
30 SUM DJU                     THOùN ZEH
100 GYA                            TåYA

1000 DONG-DRA                    T'AUN

10,000 DONG-DRA-DJU          THAUN 
100,000 THEIN
1,000,000 BUM-DJU TH AN 
(Q=Glottal stop- final N=Nazalised vowels)

Tibetan and Burmese numbers are somewhat similar, but quite different from the Chinese ones; it would be interesting (if possible) to compare them with the kown Chinese forms .


*Discussion*: East Asian languages: numbers Répondre à la discussion


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## linguist786

Hindi/Urdu:

One - ek 
Two - do (like "door" in english)
Three - teen
Four - chaar
Five - paanch
Six - che
Seven - saat
Eight - aat
Nine - naw
Ten - das
Eleven - gyaaraa
Twelve - baaraa
Thirteen - tera
Nineteen - unnees
Twenty - bees
Twenty-one - ek-bees
Thirty - tees
Forty - chaalees
Ninety - nawtee
Hundred - (ek) so
Thousand - (ek) hazaar
Ten Thousand - das hazaar
Hundred Thousand - (ek) laakh
Million - das laakh (literally: "ten, hundred thousands")


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## Pivra

linguist786 said:
			
		

> Hindi/Urdu:
> 
> One - ek
> Two - do (like "door" in english)
> Three - teen
> Four - chaar
> Five - paanch
> Six - che
> Seven - saat
> Eight - aat
> Nine - naw
> Ten - das
> Eleven - gyaaraa
> Twelve - baaraa
> Thirteen - tera
> Nineteen - unnees
> Twenty - bees
> Twenty-one - ek-bees
> Thirty - tees
> Forty - chaalees
> Ninety - nawtee
> Hundred - (ek) so
> Thousand - (ek) hazaar
> Ten Thousand - das hazaar
> Hundred Thousand - (ek) laakh
> Million - das laakh (literally: "ten, hundred thousands")


 
For the hundreds and thousands its kind of surprising that Urdu and Hindi are so far from Sanskrit

Hundred= Sharta  (Sanskrit) Thai= Saata
Thousand= Sahasa (Sanskrit)  Thai= Sahasa  I think there is a word for a million in Sanskrit. It's like Koshtha or something.


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## linguist786

Pivra said:
			
		

> For the hundreds and thousands its kind of surprising that Urdu and Hindi are so far from Sanskrit
> 
> Hundred= Sharta (Sanskrit) Thai= Saata
> Thousand= Sahasa (Sanskrit) Thai= Sahasa I think there is a word for a million in Sanskrit. It's like Koshtha or something.


I like your thinking! Yes, i'm just thinking whether there's a proper word for "million" in hindi/urdu.. but i'm not sure if there is.


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## Pivra

linguist786 said:
			
		

> I like your thinking! Yes, i'm just thinking whether there's a proper word for "million" in hindi/urdu.. but i'm not sure if there is.


 
I went searching in the dictionary but it says दस लाख still, so I guess this might just be it.

How do I read trillion?
एक अरब I can read the second word (Araba is it?) but how do I read te first one the ए, is it a mix alphabet?

महासंख = mahasangkha is it? In Hindi how do you pronounce the anusvara (bindu) as -m, or -n, or -ng? In Thai its -ng.


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## demoore

In chinese, it's interesting, they have word for 
20 : 廿 (nian)
30 : 卅 (sa)
40 : 卌 (xi)
But very seldom used in oral.


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## MingRaymond

demoore said:
			
		

> In chinese, it's interesting, they have word for
> 20 : 廿 (nian)
> 30 : 卅 (sa)
> 40 : 卌 (xi)
> But very seldom used in oral.


 
Yes. Actually, 廿 is common in Cantonese. We say 廿二(ya3 yi6).


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## J.F. de TROYES

I apologize for the poor layout of my page.

I'll be going back on the topic as soon as possible.


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## vince

demoore said:
			
		

> In chinese, it's interesting, they have word for
> 20 : 廿 (nian)
> 
> But very seldom used in oral.



Mandarin doesn't use 廿 in spoken language? Interesting, because I hear it often in Cantonese


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## demoore

In chinese their is also a way to count with the hand.
Some pictures here : http://www.chinese-tools.com/resources/number-gestures.html
It's use to bargain or to play games in lousy bars! Quite original.
For the 廿 in mandarin, most of the people event don't know how to pronuunce it.


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## Flaminius

The Japanese way to count with the hand concurs with the Chinese one up until 5.  From 6 to 10, They use another hand (typically the left hand) in shape of 1 to 5 combined with the first hand signing 5.


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## J.F. de TROYES

Citation VINCE

*Which East-Asian languages have the same (or mostly the same) numbers and counting system, and why?*





To go back to our thread, these are some other south-Asian numbers:

1-Tai Languages (may be a part of the larger Austro-Thai group )

ZHUANG, spoken by about 15,000,000 people, chiefly in Guangxi Province (China)

1-IT or DEW   2-NGEY or SONG   3-SAM   4-SE   5-HA or NGU   6-REK   7-TSAT   8-PET  9-KOW  10-TSIP  12- TSIP NGEY

20- NGEY TSIP  100-PAK  1,000-TSIN  10,000-FAN


2-Môn-Khmer languages (uncertainly originated)

KHMER or CAMBODIAN (Atonal language )
1-MUAY 2-PI 3-BEY 4-BUAN 5-PRAM 6-PRAM MUAY 7-PRAM PI 8-PRAM BEY 9-PRAM BUAN 10-DAP 11-DAP PI

100-MUAY ROY 1,000-MUAY POAN 10,000-DAP POAN or MUAY MOEN 100,000-MUAY ROY POAN or MUAY SAEN 

1,000,000-MUAY LIEN

VIETNAMESE

1-MÔT 2-HAI 3-BA 4-BÔN 5-NĂM 6-SÁU 7-BAY 8-TÁM 9-CHÍN 10-MÔTMƯỜI 12- MƯỜI HAI 20-HAI MƯỜI 21- HAI MƯỜI 
100-MÔT TRĂM 1000- MÔT NGÀN 10000-MÔT NGÌN 
1000000-TRIẸU

3-Sino-Tibetan languages

BURMESE

1-TIQ *or **Tå 2-HNIQ or HNå 3-THOùN 4-Lè 5-NG**à 6-CH’AUQ 7-K’UN-HNIQ 8-SHIQ 9-K*ò 

10-*Tå S’EH 12-S’EH-HNIQ 20- HNå-S’EH 100-TåYA 1,000-T’AUN 10,000-THA* ùN 

100,000-THEìN ( Q=Glottal stop Final N=Nasalization CH’ or S’ or K’=Aspirated consonants ) 

*KAREN, spoken by about 3,000,000 people in Myanmar*

*1-LE 2-NI 3-THE 4-LI 5-YAK 6-HU 7-NUI 9-KWI 10-KESI 12-KESI NI 20-NISI 100-KEYA 1,000-KETAN 10,000-KESI KETAN*

*4-Related to Indonesian languages*

*CHAM, spoken by a minority in Vietnam, descending from the influential kingdom of Champa (3rd-17th)*

*1-THA 2-DWA 3-KLOW 4-PA 5-NAM 6-NAM 7-TADJUH 8-TALIPAN 9-THALIPAN 10-THA PLUH 12-THA PLUH 20-DWA PLUH 22-DWA PLUH DWA 100-THA RATUH 1,000-THA RIPOW 10,000-TAMUN*

*Semanticaly speaking , we can notice thanks to DALIAN's data - and i think its very unexpected- that several Tai numbers appear to stem from Middle Chinese; still 4 of them from 1 and 10 are unrelated, and probably 100 and over;*
*so, Tai has got numbers which have nothing to do with Chinese.*
*ZHUANG strongly impacted by Chinese environment use 2 words for 3 figures, one coming from Chinese, the others belonging to the Tai family.*
*BURMESE and KAREN seem to be a little related to Chinese (belonging to the same big family), and KHMER, CHAM and VIETNAMESE, not at all related, what is strange for the latest of which vocabulary borrowed many words from CHINESE.*

*As for structures the counting system is based on a very simple system,which is perhaps in keeping with the monosyllabic and and unvarying nature of most of these languages: 11=10+1; 12=10+2; 20=2+10; 21=2+10+1; moreover there is often one word for 10,000. These similarities would deserve to make some more researches !*



*- *


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## mal67

For Khmer: 





> 11-DAP PI



That should be Dap-muy - dap-bpi is 12.


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## MarX

J.F. de TROYES said:


> *4-Related to Indonesian languages*
> 
> *CHAM, spoken by a minority in Vietnam, descending from the influential kingdom of Champa (3rd-17th)*
> 
> *1-THA 2-DWA 3-KLOW 4-PA 5-NAM 6-NAM 7-TADJUH 8-TALIPAN 9-THALIPAN 10-THA PLUH 12-THA PLUH 20-DWA PLUH 22-DWA PLUH DWA 100-THA RATUH 1,000-THA RIPOW 10,000-TAMUN*


Wow, Cham is very similar to Indonesian indeed!

1 = satu (se-)
2 = dua
3 = tiga
4 = empat
5 = lima
6 = enam
7 = tujuh
8 = delapan
9 = sembilan
10 = se-puluh

12 = dua-belas

20 = dua-puluh
22 = dua-puluh-dua

100 = se-ratus

1000 = se-ribu

I had always wondered how come _tiga, tujuh, delapan_ are not similar to _telu, pitu, walu_ in other Austronesian languages. Apparently those Indonesian numbers are "continental".

I reckon there is some mistakes with the Cham transliteration of 5, 9, and 12.
I read in Can Dai Quang's website that the Cham word for 5 is *lamö*.


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## J.F. de TROYES

mal67 said:


> For Khmer:
> 
> That should be Dap-muy - dap-bpi is 12.


 
Sorry for my blunder :11 dap-muy ; 12 dap-pi  ( another more accurate trasliteration is dop-mooay , dop-bpee with the "o" is short, similar to "l*o*ng" , "oo" as in boot, "ay" as in "pay", "bp" is a sharp "p", "ee" as in "see".


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## J.F. de TROYES

vince said:


> Wow, this is really interesting, the first set of numbers is clearly East Asian for most numbers (just compare with the Cantonese numbers) while the second set is clearly Indo-European like English, Russian, and Spanish, perhaps these numbers are from Sanskrit?


 
Certainly, the second set comes from Sanscrit or a derived prakrit like Pali. In Sanskrit : eka- , dva-, tri-, catur-, pañca-, _s_a_s_- (a retroflex s ), sapta-,asta-, nava-, dasa- ( s as "ich" in German ) and in all I.E. Indian languages they are similar. For Thai I suppose it's due to the Buddhist influence ; Burmese has got many Pali words for this reason.

There is an interesting site about numbers from one to ten here.


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## MarX

Many thanks for the interesting link, de Troyes!

My assumption about the errata in the Cham numbers in your earlier post was right.
According to the website, the Cham numbers are as follow:

1 = saa
2 = duaa
3 = klâu
4 = paak
5 = limöö
6 = nàm
7 = tijuh
8 = daalaapaan
9 = saamilaan
10 = sàpuluh

They are very similar to the Indonesian numbers.


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## J.F. de TROYES

MarX said:


> Many thanks for the interesting link, de Troyes!
> 
> My assumption about the errata in the Cham numbers in your earlier post was right.
> According to the website, the Cham numbers are as follow:
> 
> 1 = saa
> 2 = duaa
> 3 = klâu
> 4 = paak
> 5 = limöö
> 6 = nàm
> 7 = tijuh
> 8 = daalaapaan
> 9 = saamilaan
> 10 = sàpuluh
> 
> They are very similar to the Indonesian numbers.


 
You are right about  5= limöö / limu ; sorry, I made a mistake 
I had'nt yet come across this site when I sent the post last year ! I think the differences are due to the difficulty and variability in transliterating Cham. The French book which I took numbers from uses a transliteration close to the " Dictionnaire Cham-vietnamien-Français" (Phanrang cultural center", Vietnam 1971). Anyhow Cham is confirmed to be strongly related to Indonesian language  and uses (or maybe, used) a writing coming from India due to expanding Hinduism which is said to look like old writings of Inndonesia.


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## mal67

J.F. de TROYES said:


> Sorry for my blunder :11 dap-muy ; 12 dap-pi  ( another more accurate trasliteration is dop-mooay , dop-bpee with the "o" is short, similar to "l*o*ng" , "oo" as in boot, "ay" as in "pay", "bp" is a sharp "p", "ee" as in "see".



Khmer sounds are certainly hard to render in Latin script, but I would characterize the "bp" as an unaspirated p.  (As a native English speaker, I've had problems with that sound, especially in initial position; my wife, who is a native Spanish speaker, finds it easy.)


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## mimi2

*Vietnamese:*
1- một 
2- hai 
3- ba 
4- bốn 
5- năm 
6- sáu 
7- bảy 
8- tám 
9- chín 
10- mười 
11- mười một
12- mười hai 
15- mười lăm 
20- hai mươi 
21- hai mươi mốt 
100 - một trăm 
101- một trăm lẻ một 
1000- một ngàn 
10000- mười ngàn 
1000000- một triệu


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## MoisesYU

hey guys, those are the mogolian numbers.


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## irairae

Here is Native Korean counting words;
1- hana
2- tul  2 or 3: tuse
3- set 3 or 4: seoneo
4- net
5- taseot
6- yeoseot 6 or 7:yenilgop
7- ilgop
8 -yeodeol
9- ahop
10- yeol
20- seumul
30- seoreun
40- maheun
50- swin
60- yesun
70- ilheun
80- yeodeun
90 -aheun
100 -on
1000- jeumeun
10000- gol


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## tanzhang

In Tagalog:
1 isa
2 dalawa
3 tatlo
4 apat
5 lima
6 anim
7 pito
8 walo
9 syam
10 sampu

11 (labing*) isa
12 (*) dalawa
13 (*) tatlo
14 (*) apat
15 (*) lima
16 (*) anim
17 (*) pito
18 (*) walo
19 (*) syam

20 dalawa (mpu) = dalawampu
30 tatlo (mpu)
40 apat (napu)
50 lima (mpu)
60 anim (napu)
70 pito (mpu)
80 walo (mpu)
90 syam (napu)

100 isang(daan)
1000 isang(libo)
10,000 sampung (libo)
100,000 sandaang (libo)
1,000,000 isang(milyon)


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## mataripis

*TAGALOG: *Mga Bilang sa Tagalog(The numbers in Tagalog)  One= Isa, Two=Dalawa/Dalwa, Three= Tatlo, Four=Apat, Five=Lima, Six=Anim, Seven=Pito, Eight=Walo, Nine=Siyam, Ten=Sampu', Eleven=Labing Isa, Twelve=Labing Dalwa, Thirteen=Labing Tatlo, Fourteen=Labing Apat, Fifteen=Labing Lima, Sixteen=Labing anim, Seventeen=Labing Pito, Eighteen=Labing Walo, Nineteen=Labing Siyam/Syam, Twenty=Dalawangpu', Thirty=Tatlongpu', Fourty=Apatnapu',Fifty=Limampu',Sixty=Animnapu',Seventy=Pitompu'  Eighty=Walompu',Ninet=Syamnapu', Onehundred=Isang daan(Gatos), One thousand=Sang libo,Ten Thousand=Sampung Libo(Yuta),One Hundred Thousand=Isang Daang Libo(Sang Kati), One Million=Isang Milyon(Angaw), Ten Million=Sampung Milyon(Gahala)   Note: words inside the parentheses are ancient words of Tagalog, some are retained in Bikol and Bisaya.


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## PaulQ

Pivra said:


> So is my country in the East of Southern Asia or in the South of Eastern Asia lol?
> 
> In Thai if you want to express an idea and make number and noun into one word then there is a different set of counting.
> ๐=0= sunya= sunya
> ๑=1= neung= ek
> ๒=2=song= do
> ๓=3=sam= tri
> ๔=4=see= chatu
> ๕=5=ha= pañcha
> ๖=6=hok= hacha
> ๗=7=jed= sapa
> ๘=8=pad= asda
> ๙=9=kao= nawa
> ๑๐=10=sip= dosa


I was struck by how similar the second set of Thai numbers were to Bengali
0  - shoonno
1 - ek
2 - dui
3 - teen
4 - char
5 - pañch
6 - chchoy
7 - shat
8 - att
9 - noy
10 - dosh
11 - egaro
12 - baro
13 - tero
19 -unish
20 - Bish
21 - ekush
30 - tirish
40 - chollis
90 - nobboi
100 - eksho
1,000 - haazar/ shahasra
10,000 - dosh haazar
100,000 - lakh
10,000,000 - koti/krora


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## saigon-sarang

In Vietnamese Han-Viet system, 1~10 are:

nhất, nhị, tam, tứ, ngũ, lục, thất, bát, cửu, thập.


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## NickJunior

Vince wrote, "How do you say the following numbers in East Asian languages: One Two Three Four Five Six Seven Eight Nine Ten Eleven Twelve Thirteen ... Nineteen Twenty Twenty-one
Thirty Forty ... Ninety Hundred Thousand Ten Thousand Hundred Thousand Million"

Hey Vince, in the Khmer language those numbers go like this:0 = sone; 1 = mooy; 2 = pbee; 3 = bey; 4 = bourn (our as in your); 5 =bram; 6 = bram mooy; 7 = bram pbee or (bram pbil -spoken); 8 = bram bey; 9 = bram bourn; 10 = dobb. From 11 through 19, you just say (11): 10 + 1 (or dobb mooy), (12) dobb pbee (10 + 2)...20 = Ma'pey; 21 = Ma'pey mooy; 30 = /sarm seb/ or just /sarm/ ; 31 = sarm seb mooy or sarm mooy. 40 = sae-seb; 50 = har-seb; 60 = hoak-seb; 70 = jet-seb; 80 = pbet seb; 90 = kav-seb; 100 = mooy roay ; 1,000 = mooy pawn; 10,000 = mooy mern or dobb pawn; 100,000 = mooy sen or mooy roay pawn; 1,000,000 = mooy lien or mooy roay pawn.


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