# A sentence structure that describes something that one feels



## tFighterPilot

Hebrew has one, but English doesn't. In Hebrew it's [adjective]+[noun in dative case]

For example, if I would like to say that I feel coldness I'd say "Kar li". In English one might say "I'm cold", but that might also mean that my body temperature is low or that I have a cold personality (in these cases in Hebrew it would be "Ani kar").

An object can also be added to be more specific. For example "my head hurts" would "koev li harosh".

Does your language have such structure?


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## fdb

In Hebrew, and in most other Semitic languages, the preposition _li_ is often used where Indo-European languages use the verb “to have”. If you concede this point to me, then I would maintain that the cited Hebrew constructions are just like French: 

J’ai froid
J’ai mal à la tête.

Or, with a dative construction, German:

Mir ist es kalt
Mir tut der Kopf weh.

Any chance that the (modern) Hebrew construction is actually calqued on Yiddish?


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## Perseas

Hi,

do you mean for example the German "mir ist kalt" (= I am cold) or "mir ist warm"?

In Modern Greek we usually use verbs with personal subjects: κρυώνω (= Ι am cold), πονάει το κεφάλι μου (= I have a headache).

*cross-posted with fdb


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## tFighterPilot

I suppose it's quite possible that this structure is originated from either Yiddish or German. It doesn't exist in Biblical or Mishnaic Hebrew (to the best of my knowledge).


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## rusita preciosa

In Russian there is a similar construction, except we use *dative + adverb*:

*мне холодно */mne kholodno/ - lit. to me [it is] coldly - I'm cold
*тебе трудно */tebye trudno/ - lit. to you [it is] difficultly - it's hard/difficult for you
*брату обидно */nam obidno/ - lit. to brother [it is] hurtfully - the brother is upset


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## e2-e4 X

I would just add that the grammatical category of all these words in such sentences (холодно, трудно, обидно) is a subject for controversy. Some say it is a (short) adjective, just like in Hebrew; others say it is a so-called «категория состояния» (roughly, 'state-word'). According to still others, it is indeed an adverb.


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## arielipi

But in hebrew you can swap words locations, li kar = kar li.

is hamelucha adjective? li hanaar - adjective? or simply words that metaarim more the word before/after?


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## ThomasK

Dutch has a different structure: 
- temperature: _ik heb het koud _(I have it cold); you can use 'to be' in this way: _Het is mij te koud _('It is too cold to me'), but only with 'too', it seems to me
- feelings: _ik ben boos/... _(I am angry)
- pain: _mijn hoofd doet pijn/ ik heb hoofdpijn_ (my head does hurt, lit./ I have a headache)

Can one refer to emotions using an impersonal subject and a dative in Slavic languages by the way? _(it is angry to me ?)_


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## LilianaB

Hi, Thomas. The only one I can think about right now in Polish is _nieprzyjemnie mi ze_  -- it is unpleasant to me that (literally). There is a similar construction in Russian. Other than that -- I don't think so. At least it is not any general, grammatical rule in Polish and Russian. There are no universal rules that apply to all Slavic languages. (this is really a Dative - adverb construction -- the Polish example)


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## e2-e4 X

ThomasK said:


> Can one refer to emotions using an impersonal subject and a dative in Slavic languages by the way? _(it is angry to me ?)_


As for Russian, it depends on the adjective. Some adjectives for emotional states can be used this way, some can't.


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## tFighterPilot

arielipi said:


> But in hebrew you can swap words locations, li kar = kar li.


The words are swapped when the stress is on the noun rather than the adjective, so you might say the meaning changes.


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## ThomasK

Could you tell me what kond of adjectives can, and which can't, or give me some idea?


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## arielipi

@thomas, you can swap technically anywhere, though to deliver the wanted meaning theres an importance of place the word is.

@tfighter, i ask again:
is hamelucha adjective? li hanaar - adjective? or simply words that metaarim more the word before/after?
המלוכה
לי הנער
if not, what are they?


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## tFighterPilot

arielipi said:


> is hamelucha adjective? li hanaar - adjective? or simply words that metaarim more the word before/after?
> המלוכה
> לי הנער
> if not, what are they?


These are nouns obviously, and thus it's completely unrelated.


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## arielipi

So what is an adjective?


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## e2-e4 X

ThomasK said:


> Could you tell me what kond of adjectives can, and which can't, or give me some idea?


I've got the thought now that those adjectives that can do so express things that can be separated from the feeler and so can be felt separately from the human himself, for example: "радостно" (adj) <= "радость" (noun, "joy"), "обидно" (adj) <= "обида" (noun, "offence"), "тяжело" (adj) <= "тяжёлый" (adj, "heavy, hard"), "интересно" (adj) <= "интерес" (noun, "interest"), "интересный" (adj, "[an] interesting [thing]"). Unlike the terms: "злой" (angry), "усталый" ("weary"), that in Russian have no connection with anything else than the feeler himself and are undistinguishable from him. The latter terms can't form the word for such construction.


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## LilianaB

Aren't they all adverbs? Or do you think they are some simplified forms of adjectives -- to be used in certain impersonal constructions?


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## e2-e4 X

They can be thought of as adverbs or as short adjectives, or as neither... Syntactically, it looks like it is difficult for them to be classified as adverbs, because adverbs should attach to verbs and specify how the action proceeds, and there is no real verb here; although, again, syntactically, it is difficult for them to be thought of as short adjectives either, because there is no corresponding noun. I personally have no opinion on that.


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## LilianaB

I think they are adverbs, after all, because they really come from a construction similar to this one: It (feels) joyful to me (if literally translated), for example. (Мне радостно). They modify a verb, but the verb is dropped.


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## e2-e4 X

Well, in reality such statewords are used rather with the copular verbs ("было", "становится", "оказалось", …), and so they indeed can be called adverbs that modify the copular verbs, but it's more common for such verbs to take complements than adverbs, and short adjectives fit nicely. The only thing is that the copular verb has no subject in this case, which is not very common for them, but impersonal constructions are usual in Russian and make sense here.


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## mataripis

In Tagalog , we say "nilalagnat ako" or "may lagnat ako" ( i have fever),  Nilalamig ako ( low body temperature), giniginaw ako ( low air temperature), binabanas ako ( due to high temp. of sorrounding)


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## ThomasK

Fine, but what is the structure of those sentences? What do they mean precisely?


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> Fine, but what is the structure of those sentences? What do they mean precisely?


 I used the words 1.) lagnat (fever)   2.) Lamig( cold)  3.) Ginaw ( feel chilling)  4.) Banas ( warm feeling) to describe the exact feeling of a person.  To make them as action word,  Tagalog conjugation (pagbalanghay) transform them into verbs.  1.) may lagnat ako/ako'y may lagnat/_nilalagnat_ ako= i have fever. same in  2.) Nilalamig = feel chilling (as a result of low body temp.) 3.) giniginaw(feel cold)  4.)  Binabanas (feel hot or  air is humid).


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## ThomasK

mataripis said:


> I used the words:
> 1.) *lagnat *(fever) 2.) *Lamig*( cold) 3.) *Ginaw *( feel chilling) 4.) *Banas *( warm feeling) to describe the exact feeling of a person.
> 
> To make them as action word, Tagalog conjugation (pagbalanghay) transforms them into verbs.
> 1.) may *lagnat *ako/ako'y may lagnat/_nilalagnat_ ako= i have fever. same in 2.) Nila*lamig* = feel chilling (as a result of low body temp.) 3.) gini*ginaw*(feel cold) 4.) Bina*banas* (feel hot or air is humid).


That is interesting. Most of them seem to consist of reduplication  (syllable or more is repeated before the root). Correct ?


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## bibax

Czech:

je mi chladno = lit. [it] is cold to me = I am cold;
je mi teplo = lit. [it] is warm to me;
je mi stydno = lit. [it] is ashamed to me = I feel/am ashamed;
je mi zle = lit. [it] is bad to me = I feel/am sick;
je mi trapně = I feel embarassed;
je mi strašně = I feel terrible;

Another kind of the dative case is dativus ethicus (applied to personal pronouns) used (in Latin and some other languages, but rare in English) to show a certain interest felt by the person indicated (1st person) or to attract attention (2nd person).

To je *mi/ti/vám* krása! = It is a beauty [to me/to you/to you all]!

To *vám* byla legrace! = It was a fun [to you]!
 it doesn't mean that you had a fun, the speaker only tries to attract your attention;

Tak *nám* zabili Ferdinanda. = So they killed Ferdinand [to us].
_(btw, the 1st sentence of The brave soldier Schweik)
_
There is a difference:

1) Je mi zle. = I am sick. (lit. [it] is bad to me)
vs.
2) To je mi zlé. = [I am affraid that] it is bad. (lit. it is bad to me - _ethical dative_).
 it doesn't necessary mean that it is bad *for me* (= To je *pro mne* zlé.);


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## LilianaB

Hi, Bibax -- would the last example mean -- _I think it is bad_ -- sort of? This construction is not present in Polish and Russian.


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## bibax

Yes, a sort of. Or rather it means that the speaker is emotionally involved.


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## ancalimon

Turkish:

We usually add "dim, dım, dum, düm" to the end of a verb that's derived from a noun.

ter: sweat
terle: to sweat
terledim: I have become sweaty

sık: dense, thick, squeeze
sıkıl: to become squeezed, to become bored (since boredom is somekind of feeling that makes your insides feel squeezed)
sıkıldım: I have become bored.


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## mataripis

ThomasK said:


> That is interesting. Most of them seem to consist of reduplication  (syllable or more is repeated before the root). Correct ?


tama' /correct!


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## 涼宮

Spanish works like French, using 'have': tengo frío, but for the head we say ''me duele la cabeza'', lit: it hurts to me the head.

Japanese mainly uses adjectives:
 I'm cold= 寒い _samui_ 
I have a headache= 頭がいたい _atama ga itai_ (lit: as for the head, painful)
I'm hot/I feel hot/it's hot= 暑い _atsui_


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