# Torta Marianna



## Shakazulu

Salve a tutti! And congratulations! ("Dove la vittoria ? ecc." ) 
Ma alla mia domanda: che cosa significa "Torta Marianna"? il contesto: " ... qualcosa che puo' crescere come la Torta Marianna." Forse e' un proverbio?
Sogni d'oro!


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## emma1968

Shakazulu said:
			
		

> Salve a tutti! And congratulations! ("Dove la vittoria ? ecc." )
> Ma alla mia domanda: che cosa significa "Torta Marianna"? il contesto: " ... qualcosa che puo' crescere come la Torta Marianna." Forse e' un proverbio?
> Sogni d'oro!



Forse intendi "Torta margherita"?
"Qualcosa che può crescere/lievitare come la torta margherita"


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## You little ripper!

There are a couple of listings with Google for _Torta Marianna._
Link


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> There are a couple of listings with Google for _Torta Marianna._
> Link


Io comunque non l'ho mai sentita!
Anyway, the listing in your link  mentions "Pieragnoli" which is a famous negozio di prodotti alimentari close to my house. I will definitely  ask  them!


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## MAVERIK

Neache io l'ho mai sentita nominare ..


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## Shakazulu

emma1968 said:
			
		

> Io comunque non l'ho mai sentita!
> Anyway, the listing in your link mentions "Pieragnoli" which is a famous negozio di prodotti alimentari close to my house. I will definitely ask them!


 
Thank you, Emma. I am curious to know what it is. 
I asked two Roman ladies and neither had heard of "Torta Marianna". It may be a Southern delicacy. (I believe there was a singer who used Marianna Torata" as a stage name?) 
In the meantime I think I will translate the phrase as "something that can rise magically like a sponge cake," since that at least makes sense (of a kind) in English. (To tell the truth, you can break windows with my sponge cakes.  )
Graze a tutti!


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## emma1968

Shakazulu said:
			
		

> Thank you, Emma. I am curious to know what it is.
> I asked two Roman ladies and neither had heard of "Torta Marianna". It may be a Southern delicacy. (I believe there was a singer who used Marianna Torata" as a stage name?)
> In the meantime I think I will translate the phrase as "something that can rise magically like a sponge cake," since that at least makes sense (of a kind) in English. (To tell the truth, you can break windows with my sponge cakes.  )
> Graze a tutti!



You are welcome!
I'll send you one of my sponge cakes, so that your poor windows are safe!


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## You little ripper!

emma1968 said:
			
		

> You are welcome!
> I'll send you one of my sponge cakes, so that your poor windows are safe!






> In the meantime I think I will translate the phrase as "something that can rise magically like a sponge cake," since that at least makes sense (of a kind) in English. (To tell the truth, you can break windows with my sponge cakes.  )



I think _sponge cake_ is a good translation. My mother was quite famous for her sponge cakes. She used the Victoria Sponge recipe in_ The Golden Wattle Cookery Book_. Her secret was to never open the oven door until you were absolutely certain it was cooked. It was the letting of cold air into the oven that prevented it from rising to perfection.


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## emma1968

> Her secret was to never open the oven door until you were absolutely certain it was cooked. It was the letting of cold air into the oven that prevented it from rising to perfection.


I hope your mother(wherever she is) doesn't mind if I tell everybody that that is not a secret but it's purely a statment of fact


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## You little ripper!

emma1968 said:
			
		

> I hope your mother(wherever she is) doesn't mind if I tell everybody that that is not a secret but it's purely a statment of fact


A secret in the context I used it is _a little-known technique, or piece of information that is the key to success in something that you do._


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## Willi

emma1968 said:
			
		

> You are welcome!
> I'll send you one of my sponge cakes, so that your poor windows are safe!


 

Emma would you mind sending one of your cakes to me as well? My windows are quite safe, but I'm always willing to have new experiences, and if they involve sponge cakes, so much the better


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> A secret can mean a little-known technique, or piece of information that is the key to success in something that you do.


Indeed, if you see the matter through the eyes of an unskilled person you can  talk about "secret" , since the unskilled person  doesn't know it.
Uffa!! Ma vuoi sempre aver ragione!



P.S. Willi, no problem!!


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## You little ripper!

emma1968 said:
			
		

> Indeed, if you see the matter through the eyes of an unskilled person you can  talk about "secret" , since the unskilled person  doesn't know it.
> Uffa!! Ma vuoi sempre aver ragione!
> 
> 
> 
> P.S. Willi, no problem!!


 The point I was trying to make Emma, was that in English the word "secret" means more than "segreto". I was using it in the extended meaning of the word.


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## Willi

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> The point I was trying to make Emma, was that in English the word "secret" means more than "segreto". I was using it in the extended meaning of the word.


 
I may be wrong, but I feel that both in Italian and in English "secret/segreto" means something like "il trucco è...". Am I right Charles?


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> The point I was trying to make Emma, was that in English the word "secret" means more than "segreto". I was using it in the extended meaning of the word.



Ed io ho capito benissimo, perché in questo contesto la parola "segreto" ha la stessa valenza di "secret".

Es: Se una amica mi dice " come ti è venuto soffice questo dolce! qual è il tuo segreto? a me non riescono mai così, si sgonfiano sempre!
Io posso rispondere: "cara, basta non aprire il forno durante la cottura, ecco il segreto!


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## You little ripper!

Willi said:
			
		

> I may be wrong, but I feel that both in Italian and in English "secret/segreto" means something like "il trucco è...". Am I right Charles?


Yes. Does _segreto_ also mean _trucco_ in Italian? I didn't see that definition in De Mauro.


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## MAVERIK

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Yes. Does _segreto_ also mean _trucco_ in Italian? I didn't see that definition in De Mauro.


 
Yes , sure. It depends on the context .


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## Willi

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Yes. Does _segreto_ also mean _trucco_ in Italian? I didn't see that definition in De Mauro.


 
In this case yes. You could easily say "il trucco è non aprire mai il forno durante la cottura"


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## You little ripper!

MAVERIK said:
			
		

> Yes , sure. It depends on the context .


Thanks Maverik. So in the context we are talking about would, _The trick in getting a sponge cake to rise _be translated as Il segreto........... without meaning that very few people know about it?


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## You little ripper!

Willi said:
			
		

> In this case yes. You could easily say "il trucco è non aprire mai il forno durante la cottura"


Thanks Willi. But my point is, _Can you say Il segreto è non aprire mai il forno durante la cottura, _without it meaning that very few people know about it?.


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## MAVERIK

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> Thanks Maverik. So in the context we are talking about would, _The trick in getting a sponge cake to rise _be translated as Il segreto........... without meaning that very few people know about it?


 

You're welcome
Yes , in this case you can translate it with " Il segreto" .


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## emma1968

Secondo me, sia la parola "segreto" che la parola "trucco" implicano che poche persone sappiano una cosa, questo a prescindere dal fatto che in questo contesto la parola "segreto" vada bene o meno.

Edit: Che poi le poche persone possano essere un milione, questo è tutto relativo!

Quando  si parla di una ricetta di cucina , l'oratore che parla di segreto, si rivolge a quelle persone che non sanno tale segreto o trucco.
Spero che abbiate capito cosa volevo dire!


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## You little ripper!

MAVERIK said:
			
		

> You're welcome
> Yes , in this case you can translate it with " Il segreto" .


So you can use the word _segreto _when in actual fact you mean _trick.


_ The word _secret_ that Emma used in Post 9 appears to be used to mean _something that is not generally known. 
_


> I hope your mother(wherever she is) doesn't mind if I tell everybody that that is not a secret......


 That's the reason I queried it.


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> So you can use the word _segreto _when in actual fact you mean _trick.
> 
> 
> _ The word _secret_ that Emma used in Post 9 appears to be used to mean _something that is not generally known.
> _ That's the reason I queried it.



Charles, se rileggi i miei posts 15 e 22, potrai capire cosa intendo per "not generally known.


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## You little ripper!

emma1968 said:
			
		

> Charles, se rileggi i miei posts 15 e 22, potrai capire cosa intendo per "not generally known.


I know that in Post 15 you meant _segreto_ as _trucco _Emma_. _I'm refering to Post 9. In that post, the way you used _segreto_ gives the impression that you mean_ something not generally known. _


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## Aquarius24

Shakazulu said:
			
		

> Salve a tutti! And congratulations! ("Dove la vittoria ? ecc." )
> Ma alla mia domanda: che cosa significa "Torta Marianna"? il contesto: " ... qualcosa che puo' crescere come la Torta Marianna." Forse e' un proverbio?



I have never heard such this slang or way to say... we in Rome have some ways of saying relating to cakes, but not with Marianna

GiL


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> I know that in Post 15 you meant _segreto_ as _trucco _Emma_. _I'm refering to Post 9. In that post, the way you used _segreto_ gives the impression that you mean_ something not generally known. _



Perché avevo preso  in senso sbagliato la tua affermazione. Nel post subito dopo ho anche detto "Indeed,....." significando che, se si cosidera la giusta sfumatura che tu hai dato a quell'affermazione, quello che hai detto è perfettamente corretto. Pensavo si capisse dal post! Scusa!

E quel... "vuoi avere sempre ragione" l'ho scritto perché in realtà te l'avevo data! Capito ora?


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## You little ripper!

emma1968 said:
			
		

> Perché avevo preso  in senso sbagliato la tua affermazione. Nel post subito dopo ho anche detto "Indeed,....." significando che, se si cosidera la giusta sfumatura che tu hai dato a quell'affermazione, quello che hai detto è perfettamente corretto. Pensavo si capisse dal post! Scusa!
> 
> E quel... "vuoi avere sempre ragione" l'ho scritta perché in realtà te l'avevo data! Capito ora?


My understanding of Italian leaves a lot to be desired Emma. At least I know now, thanks to you, that "segreto" has the meaning of "trucco", as it does in English.


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## emma1968

Charles Costante said:
			
		

> My understanding of Italian leaves a lot to be desired Emma. At least I know now, thanks to you, that "segreto" has the meaning of "trucco", as it does in English.


I absolutely agree with you! I now hope that is understandable! Don't get me wrong, not about your understanding italian level. I agree about the meaning of "trucco"

Edit : Se solo io capissi l'inglese come tu capisci l'italiano, che ragazza fortunata sarei!!!!!


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## Shakazulu

Re "secret", "segreto": 
Even if several thousand people know something, it can still be called a "secret" as in "trade secret", i.e. a "trick" or "secret" associated with a craft or art or "mestiere". 
For example, the "secret" of good carpentry is to measure the wood twice and cut once (not like the poor man who cut the plank twice and it was still too short!); or to keep all chisels sharp, etc. And so keeping the oven closed can well be called the "secret" of baking sponge-cakes. 
I presume it is the same in Italian? 
And has anyone actually seen/tasted a torta marianna yet?


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