# Hindi/Urdu: गोलीबारी goliibaarii



## marrish

I'm happy I have learned a new word today, at the very first glance of BBC Hindi website: गोलीबारी goliibaarii. It appeared in an online article in Hindi about the gruelsome attack in the US, in the following sentence:

अमरीका के न्यू जर्सी राज्य के एक सुपरमार्केट में हुई गोलीबारी में तीन लोग मारे गए हैं
amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN huii goliibaarii meN tiin log maare gae haiN.

My attempt at translating: Three people are killed in the firing which happened in a supermarket in the American state New Jersey.

Is the purported meaning which I took a correct one?

What does _baarii_ mean?


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## hindiurdu

marrish said:


> My attempt at translating: Three people are killed in the firing which happened in a supermarket in the American state New Jersey.
> 
> Is the purported meaning which I took a correct one?



Marrish sahab, I think this is correct. On baarii, I think it means showering or something like that (don't know for sure). We also have bambaari (=bombardment/बमबारी) and barfbaari (snowfall/बर्फ़बारी). A search also showed these in Urdu (برفباری) as well as Pashto (_بمباري_). I also ran into another thread here called Hindi/Urdu: برفباری <barafbārī>.


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## Alfaaz

Interesting! Seem to always hear golaa(h) baari in Urdu...
Dictionary entry about bambaari (might not be correct; not familiar with the grammar terms...so will not attempt to transliterate the Urdu text):  انگریزی زبان سے ماخوذ اسم بم کے ساتھ فارسی مصدر باریدن ے مشتق صیغۂ امر بار بطور لاحقۂ فاعلی لگنے سے بمبار مرکب توصیفی بنا اور پھر ی بطور لاحقۂ کیفیت لگنے سے *بمباری* مرکب بنا۔


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## hindiurdu

Alfaaz said:


> Interesting! Seem to always hear golaa(h) baari in Urdu



Gola(h)baari means bombing (or, more accurately, shelling), i.e. more suited to a war situation rather than the shooting cited here. I think goli = bullet, (top ka) golaa = cannonball (archaic) or bomb. So, golibaari = shower of bullets, golaabaari = shower of bombs or mortar shells.



Alfaaz said:


> فارسی مصدر باریدن ے مشتق صیغۂ امر بار بطور لاحقۂ فاعلی



Perfect. Baariidan (Baarish, cognate: Barasna/Varsha). Thanks! It's pretty evocative - bulletshower, bombshower, cannonshower, snowshower.


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## Faylasoof

Alfaaz said:


> Interesting! Seem to always hear golaa(h) baari in Urdu...
> Dictionary entry about bambaari (might not be correct; not familiar with the grammar terms...so will not attempt to transliterate the Urdu text):  انگریزی زبان سے ماخوذ اسم بم کے ساتھ فارسی مصدر باریدن ے مشتق صیغۂ امر بار بطور لاحقۂ فاعلی لگنے سے بمبار مرکب توصیفی بنا اور پھر ی بطور لاحقۂ کیفیت لگنے سے *بمباری* مرکب بنا۔


 Alfaaz SaaHib, the definition is correct, including the grammatical terms used! ...and I agree that the original is _golah-baarii_ (= shelling), a term we still use. But _golii-baarii_ is not used in Urdu! We say _golii chalnaa _= firing, while _golii chalaanaa_ = to fire / shoot.


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## Faylasoof

marrish said:


> I'm happy I have learned a new word today, at the very first glance of BBC Hindi website: गोलीबारी goliibaarii. It appeared in an online article in Hindi about the gruelsome attack in the US, in the following sentence:
> 
> अमरीका के न्यू जर्सी राज्य के एक सुपरमार्केट में हुई गोलीबारी में तीन लोग मारे गए हैं
> amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN huii goliibaarii meN tiin log maare gae haiN.
> 
> My attempt at translating: Three people are killed in the firing which happened in a supermarket in the American state New Jersey.
> 
> Is the purported meaning which I took a correct one?
> 
> What does _baarii_ mean?


 marrish SaaHib, your meaning is of course perfectly correct but as you know, conventionally the suffix -_baarii_ in this context has been reserved for _bam _(= bomb) and _golah_ (= cannon ball originally but cannon shell now) etc. but not for _golii_ (= _bullet_, in this context, however the word could also mean a _tablet / pill_ in a different context). 

Our usual way in Urdu, as you’d be most familiar with, has always been to use the terms I mention in the post above (_golii chalnaa_ = firing, while _golii chalaanaa_ = to fire / shoot) for shooting / firing bullets. 

To translate the English expression ‘_to fire a hail of bullets_’ we’d say _goliyaaN barsaanaa_ (there are other ways to say this too), and for the term ‘_hail of bullets’_ itself, we use _goliyoN kii baarish_ though more usually the word بوچهار बौछार _bauchhaar_ is used instead: _goliyoN kii bauchhaar_. 

It seems there has _always_ been a preference to use terms like the Persian _baarish_ in a compound term or go for the Indic terms _barsaanaa_ / _barasnaa_ / _bauchhaa_r when we are talking of bullets, rather than go for the suffix _–baarii_ (from the Persian _baariidan_) to give _golii-baarii_! This is a matter of linguistic convention. 

Apart from all this, the sentence itself sounds odd to me! Seems unidiomatic the way _huii_ is used here. I’d change the sentence to:

_amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN golii chalne se tiin log maare gae._

One doesn’t even need _haiN _at the end!

If we want to make it more _emphatic_ then:

_amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN __goliyoN kii bauchhaar_ _meN_ / _se tiin log maare gae._

The back-translation into English would of course be slightly different whether we use _meN_ (in) or _se_ (from) above.


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## Qureshpor

marrish said:


> I'm happy I have learned a new word today, at the very first glance of BBC Hindi website: गोलीबारी goliibaarii. It appeared in an online article in Hindi about the gruelsome attack in the US, in the following sentence:
> 
> अमरीका के न्यू जर्सी राज्य के एक सुपरमार्केट में हुई गोलीबारी में तीन लोग मारे गए हैं
> amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN huii goliibaarii meN tiin log maare gae haiN.
> 
> My attempt at translating: Three people are killed in the firing which happened in a supermarket in the American state New Jersey.
> 
> Is the purported meaning which I took a correct one?
> 
> What does _baarii_ mean?



As the meaning and origins of the suffix "-baarii" have been made amply clear by several friends, I shall concentrate on the translation of the sentence provided above. As to its style, I hope to start a new thread.

This is how I would translate the sentence, marrish SaaHib.

Three people have been killed in a supermarket in a firing that took place in America's State of New Jersey.


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## marrish

Faylasoof said:


> marrish SaaHib, your meaning is of course perfectly correct but as you know, conventionally the suffix -_baarii_ in this context has been reserved for _bam _(= bomb) and _golah_ (= cannon ball originally but cannon shell now) etc. but not for _golii_ (= _bullet_, in this context, however the word could also mean a _tablet / pill_ in a different context).
> 
> Our usual way in Urdu, as you’d be most familiar with, has always been to use the terms I mention in the post above (_golii chalnaa_ = firing, while _golii chalaanaa_ = to fire / shoot) for shooting / firing bullets.
> 
> To translate the English expression ‘_to fire a hail of bullets_’ we’d say _goliyaaN barsaanaa_ (there are other ways to say this too), and for the term ‘_hail of bullets’_ itself, we use _goliyoN kii baarish_ though more usually the word بوچهار बौछार _bauchhaar_ is used instead: _goliyoN kii bauchhaar_.
> 
> It seems there has _always_ been a preference to use terms like the Persian _baarish_ in a compound term or go for the Indic terms _barsaanaa_ / _barasnaa_ / _bauchhaa_r when we are talking of bullets, rather than go for the suffix _–baarii_ (from the Persian _baariidan_) to give _golii-baarii_! This is a matter of linguistic convention.
> 
> Apart from all this, the sentence itself sounds odd to me! Seems unidiomatic the way _huii_ is used here. I’d change the sentence to:
> 
> _amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN golii chalne se tiin log maare gae._
> 
> One doesn’t even need _haiN _at the end!
> 
> If we want to make it more _emphatic_ then:
> 
> _amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN __goliyoN kii bauchhaar_ _meN_ / _se tiin log maare gae._
> 
> The back-translation into English would of course be slightly different whether we use _meN_ (in) or _se_ (from) above.



This is the way an ahl-e-zabaan (an Urdu native speaker) would respond. I agree with baarish but I have to admit that bauchhaar was the first thing tha tcame to my mind upon reading that sentence.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> marrish SaaHib, your meaning is of course perfectly correct but as you know, conventionally the suffix -_baarii_ in this context has been reserved for _bam _(= bomb) and _golah_ (= cannon ball originally but cannon shell now) etc. but not for _golii_ (= _bullet_, in this context, however the word could also mean a _tablet / pill_ in a different context).



We also have "golah-andaaz" (gunner) and "golah-andaazii" (bombing).

How does "gulolah" (modern Persian guluuleh) fit in with your speech, Faylasoof SaaHib? We do use it in Punjabi but our pronunciation is "glolah".


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## hindiurdu

QURESHPOR said:


> We also have "golah-andaaz" (gunner) and "golah-andaazii" (bombing).



Qureshpor sahab, I know the question is to Faylasoof SaaHib, but briefly - I have not really heard "golah-andaaz" myself, though it seems like a natural fit given that "teer-andaaz" is very common. Possibly it is because "topchi" (cannoneer) is more common, at least in speaking-style I am familiar with. Fits in with masaalchi, baawarchi, xazaanchi, goalchi (goalkeeper in soccer), etc. In my experience, glolaah is very commonly used by a big subset of Punjabis, but I always thought it was a Punjabi colloquialism like traambaa (copper) - I have learnt something new! One other thing I have observed very commonly with native Hindi speakers is golahbaari → golehbaari → gole'baari (गोलेबारी), the classic kah → keh transform. This is so common that it showed up in literature too when I did a quick scan - "मुगलों की गोलेबारी से शाही सैनिकों का साहस छूट गया, साथ ही उनके तीरन्दाजों और तुलगमा आक्रमण ने भी उन्हें विशेष क्षति पहुँचाई" (all the nuqtas are skipped in original text from दिल्ली सल्तनत: बारहवीं से पंद्रहवीं शताब्दी तक) and "अंगरेजी तोपों ने भयानक रूप से पहाडी के ऊपर गोले बारी की। उनका जवाब देने के लिए बलभद्रर्थिह के पास केवल बल थीं।" (from भारत में अंग्रेज़ी राज्य के दो सौ वर्ष - note inconsistent use of nuqtas as well as schwa deletion adaptation here: अंग्रेज़ी and अंगरेजी are both used, also पड़ी and पहाडी).


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> We also have "golah-andaaz" (gunner) and "golah-andaazii" (bombing).
> 
> How does "gulolah" (modern Persian guluuleh) fit in with your speech, Faylasoof SaaHib? We do use it in Punjabi but our pronunciation is "glolah".


 QP SaaHib, in our speech _gulolah_ is absent! But _golah-andaaz_ / _-andaazii_ are of course used.


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## JaiHind

marrish said:


> I'm happy I have learned a new word today, at the very first glance of BBC Hindi website: गोलीबारी goliibaarii. It appeared in an online article in Hindi about the gruelsome attack in the US, in the following sentence:
> 
> अमरीका के न्यू जर्सी राज्य के एक सुपरमार्केट में हुई गोलीबारी में तीन लोग मारे गए हैं
> amriikaa ke nyuu jarsii raajya ke ek suparmaarkeT meN huii goliibaarii meN tiin log maare gae haiN.
> 
> My attempt at translating: Three people are killed in the firing which happened in a supermarket in the American state New Jersey.
> 
> Is the purported meaning which I took a correct one?
> 
> What does _baarii_ mean?



It is a pretty common word in Hindi. You can come across it in daily news papers of Hindi. 

"baari" doesn't have a separate meaning here but "goli" means a "single bullet" and "goli bari" means "firing" or "shooting". "baari" indicates continuity of firing, meaning there were multiple bullets fired for some time.


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## Qureshpor

JaiHind said:


> It is a pretty common word in Hindi. You can come across it in daily news papers of Hindi.
> 
> "baari" doesn't have a separate meaning here but "goli" means a "single bullet" and "goli bari" means "firing" or "shooting". "baari" indicates continuity of firing, meaning there were multiple bullets fired for some time.


I am curious as to how you have arrived at your explanation for "baarii". Could you please throw some more light on the subject.


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## Sheikh_14

Qureshpor said:


> We also have "golah-andaaz" (gunner) and "golah-andaazii" (bombing).
> 
> How does "gulolah" (modern Persian guluuleh) fit in with your speech, Faylasoof SaaHib? We do use it in Punjabi but our pronunciation is "glolah".



I would like to add a further queston to this highly informative thread, which is that whilst on the one hand the suffix andaaz in teer and goli andaaz seems to have its roots in the word andaaza i.e. an estimation of a target hit. The same can't be said of nazaar-andaaz i.e.to ignore does this instead derive from the andaaz denoting a 'style' of some sort?


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## tonyspeed

For sake of completeness, I would add the English word "gunfire" which has not been mentioned in this thread yet.
It sounds to my ears to be more idomatic than firing in this particular situation as it implies multiple shots.


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## Sheikh_14

There is no reason I wouldn't think that would logically refute the usage of golii baarii for goliiyaaN barsaanaa. In fact I would assume Urdu is in part responsible for Hindi's usage of golah baarii and the like just as is the case with izaafats which tend to be adopted from Urdu and are generally not natural to Hindi. Nevertheless, Faylasoof SaaHiB has given a very subjective assessment in this case which was rather wanting when it came to objectivity. I would think golii baarii so far as speech is concerned also would come naturally to Urdu (in fact more so) with regards to its pattern. Golii hear being bullet and baarii the pelting of somewhat akin to sang-baarii (Hindi rarely uses this if at all instead of pathraa'o). Just because it is uncommon doesn't by any means make it wrong. In fact its evocative.

In any case what do current forum members most especially Urdu-phones think of this construct Hindi speakers have already affirmed there support?


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