# Serbian: etymology of Vrat, vrata, dver, door...



## Vukabular

Deleted from EHL forum, reason rule #15
It's not nonsensical, it's just hard to explain and even harder to understand. In order to understand the origin and connection between words, we need to have a good knowledge of history, ethnology, folk customs, mythology, associations ... For example, to understand the connection between the word "*vrat*" _(neck, throat)_ and "*vrata*" _(door)_, which at first glance have nothing in common except pronounce I will use all of the above to explain. I am going off topic but I hope it will be useful for those reading this. First, let me explain why the Slavs call country in Eastern Europe *Gruzija* and the other Europeans call it *Georgia* and the people who living there call their country *Sakartvelo*. Official science claims that the name originated from Ancient Greek _γεωργός _(*geōrgós*, “farmer, earth worker”) and it was by chance that saint *George* (Serbian:_*Đurđ* ; Bulgarian:*Gurg*...)_ was from there which is nonsens because the ancient Greeks called it Colchis, and the Romans later took that name. The name originates from the Persians who called it *Gurgja* "the land of *wolves*" from *گرگ* (*gorg*)_or_*گرگان*‎ (*gorgân*) "*wolf*" from onomatopoeia *grrrrr* from which the words for the throat (Serbian: *grlo, grkljan* ; English & French: *gorge* ; Latin: *gurges* ; Portuguese & Spanish: _*gorja*_ ; Italian _*gorga*_*, *_*gorgia*...) as well as a lot of words that associate with a beast or something scary like *Gorgons, Gargoyle, gore*or*grotesque* from (ital. *grottesco* from *grotta* – „*cave*“)...
The Nemanjić was the most prominent dynasty of Serbia in the Middle Ages. The princely, royal and imperial house produced Twelve Serbian monarchs between 1166 and 1371. Its progenitor was Stefan Nemanja, who descended from a cadet line of the *Vuk*anović (vuk - "wolf") dynasty who are descendants of the Roman emperor *Licinius* (Greek λύκος "*lýkos*" - wolf) and their names were *Vuk*, *Vukan, Grgur, Đurađ* (George), *Vrata* (door), *Vratko* (small door) etc. On their coat of arms next to the two-headed eagle are two lily-of-the-valley (*đurđ*evak), of which wreaths are made on St. George's Day and placed on the front *door* of the house...
With the advent of Christianity, St. George took the place of the pre-Christian deity of Dabog who was portrayed as a *white lame wolf*...
According to old Serbian customs, cattle are slaughtered on the doorstep, wolf week is a holiday when the door should not be left open (because they resemble a wolf's throat), no sharp things are used, scissors, pliers or anything resembling a jaw are forbidden to use and women are forbidden to work with wool. The groom passes the bride across the doorstep to not disturb the wolf, and she walks three laps around the table and leaves food for the wolf on the table...
According to the belief, the Serbs came from the wolf, so the wolf is our national animal and the national flower is the lily of the valley (đurđevak).
In Serbian, another name for the door is "*dver, dveri*" from "*zver*" (beast, wolf) and word "*door*" is derived from "*dver*"...
In writing all this I have to mention a few more things. Everyone knows about the story of St. George how he killed a dragon and do you know of the legend of St. Leonid who also killed a terrible dragon and where the blood fell from the dragon thorns grew out and lily of the valley (đurđevak) grew out of Leonid's blood. Another name for the lily of the valley is the *tears* of Mary because they grew out of the tears of the virgin Mary under the cross on which Jesus was crucified (it is not clear to me how when it does not grow there and also need the snow). It is also called Eve's tears because it grew out of her tears when she and Adam were cast out of paradise. In Serbian language *tear* is "*suza*" and name derived is Suzana (Susan) same as Hebrew Shoshan which means lily of the valley..._


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## nimak

Занимљива анализа.  
А како бисмо објаснили повезаност *vrata*, *dveri* (door) са Sanskrit: द्वारी (dvārī), द्वारता (dvarata) ?


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## Vukabular

Povezano preko Arijevaca odnosno R1a halpogrupe koja je najviše zastupljena kod Slovena i kod Bramana u Indiji. Postoje narodne pesme koje je sakupljao Miloš S. Milojević u 19 veku u kojima se spominje Indija i da smo živeli tamo.


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## The Mountain Wreath




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## Slogos

Very interesting etymologies you’ve got there, but I think you should also take into consideration other Slavic languages. In case of Serbo-Croatian, it seems to me that “двери” is related to “двор” (common Indo-European root attested in many I.E. languages) and “врата” should be related to “врт” (another common Indo-European root). “Врат” seems to be related to “вртети”. That is pretty much what we observe in all Slavic languages.


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## Vukabular

*dvor* "court, house, palace" 
*dvorište* "yard, courtyard" 
*dveri* "door" (between the court and the courtyard)

There is a strong connection between words *vrt, vrtlog, vrat, vrata, dver, dveri, zver... *but then I will enter in the field of pre-Christian belief in the Dajbog and the folk customs of slaughtering animals on the doorstep, carrying the bride across the doorstep and other rituals, and because of such texts I may be banned.

Sanskrit:
द्वारी dvari "door" 
द्वारता dvarata "door"


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## The Mountain Wreath

Petar Skok, etimološki rečnik hrvatskog ili srpskog jezika


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## Vukabular

The Mountain Wreath said:


> Petar Skok, etimološki rečnik hrvatskog ili srpskog jezika


Thanks! 
From the attached it can be seen that even the names of the plants have to do with Djurdjevdan.  "vratio" as it says in the dictionary and the "vrba" whose branches and "đurđevak" are used to make a wreaths for Đurđevdan.


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## Vukabular

I wonder where the word "wreath" comes from? Assuming it comes from PIE **wreyt- *"to twist" then I can freely say that *vrt *is older and it is preserved in its original form. If we get into the etymology of word *zvrk *"tern, whirligig, humming top, spining top" we can get:
*zv- *"sound" (zvuk, zvono, zvižduk, zveket...) 
*vr- *"top, spining" (vrh, vrt...)


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## Vukabular

This is no coincidence:

Sanskrit: 
*वृक* • (vŕk) "a wolf" 

From Proto-Indo-Aryan _*wŕ̥kas_, from Proto-Indo-Iranian _*wŕ̥kas_ (“wolf”), from Proto-Indo-European _*wĺ̥kʷos_ (“wolf”). Cognate with Avestan _𐬬𐬆𐬵𐬭𐬐𐬀_‎ (vəhrka), Old Persian _𐎺𐎼𐎣_ (varka) (whence Persian _گرگ_‎ (*gorg*)), Latin _lupus_, Ancient Greek _λύκος_ (lúkos), Lithuanian _*vilkas*_, Old Church Slavonic _влькъ_ (vlĭkŭ), Old English _ƿulf_ (whence English _wolf_). Native grammarians etymologize it as "the tearer" and connect it to root √vrasc, compare _वृक्ण_ (vṛkṇa).

Serbian *vrba *"willow" 

*willow* From Middle English _wilwe_, _welew_, variant of _wilghe_, from Old English _weliġ_, from Proto-Germanic _*wiligaz_ (compare West Frisian _wylch_, Dutch _wilg_), from Proto-Indo-European _*wel-ik-_ (compare (Arcadian) Ancient Greek _ἑλίκη_ (helíkē), Hittite _𒌑𒂖𒆪_ (welku, “grass”)), from _*wel-_ (“*twist, turn*”).


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## Vukabular

*vrt, vrba,* *vrat*, related to turning, spinning, wheel, neck

Ancient Greek _ἑλίκη_ (*helíkē*) “a *willow*”
Ancient Greek _Ἥλιος_ (Hḗlios), from _ἥλιος_ (*hḗlios*, “sun”).
Ancient Greek _κολοσσός_ (*kolo*ssós, “large statue, especially the colossus of Rhodes, the statue of the god *Helios*"),
Latin _*Colo*sseum "big circle" _
Slavic *kolo* "circle, *wheel*"
English *collar* 
Gothic _𐌷𐌰𐌻𐍃_ (*hals*, “neck”),
Old English _*heals*_ (“neck”)


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## nimak

What could be the etymology of vratić (Serbian) / vratika, vratlika (Macedonian)?


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## Vukabular

vratić "small neck"


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## nimak

I meant, why that flowering herbaceous plant had been named like that!?


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## Slogos

How did the initial sound /v/ in *ворта end up being replaced by /p/ in Lat *porta? Cyrillic В(в) -> Latin B(b) [looks identical] -> Latin P(p) [inverted b]. Some of these changes appear artificial...


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## Vukabular

In my opinion it is artificial. Many linguists in Serbia think the same, but anyone who dares to write a scientific work on this subject suffers terrible repression from being banned from teaching in schools, dropping out of the Academy of Sciences, or even dying under unexplained circumstances.  The same happens to professors of history and archeology. All this began in the 19th century. They mined and destroyed the ancient city Žrnov near Belgrade in the old Roman maps inscribed under the name Gernov becouse "childrens climbs on walls and they can fall and injure themselves" . The Masonic Temple was later built on the site  a copy of the tomb of Persian emperor Cyrus the Great.


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## Slogos

Vukabular said:


> In my opinion it is artificial. Many linguists in Serbia think the same, but anyone who dares to write a scientific work on this subject suffers terrible repression from being banned from teaching in schools, dropping out of the Academy of Sciences, or even dying under unexplained circumstances.  The same happens to professors of history and archeology. All this began in the 19th century. They mined and destroyed the ancient city Žrnov near Belgrade in the old Roman maps inscribed under the name Gernov becouse "childrens climbs on walls and they can fall and injure themselves" . The Masonic Temple was later built on the site  a copy of the tomb of Persian emperor Cyrus the Great.



Destruction of “unwanted” or “incorrect” artifacts is a known fact. 

I would imagine this has to do with the legacy of the Vincha culture (Veneti, Etruscans?), especially if the Romans, Celts and Cimmerians are also mentioned in the stories surrounding Žrnov. As any other megalithic structure, it is ascribed by “mainstream” historians to a later culture, Roman in this case.


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