# Number of syllables used in Mandarin



## Einar

If I look at an pinyin chart like the one found here [1] it shows me the possible syllables in Mandarin, but it does not count for the tones though. Charts like these typically gives around 410 syllables. If we multiply that by the four different intonations, we get around 1640 different syllables with tones. However, other sources say, that the syllables used in real life Mandarin is closer to 1200. (a postulate given here [2] source link doesn't work any more).  Another research [3] finds 837 used in a specific text at around 30,000 characters.  What I want is a list or a full table with those 1200 syllables and preferebly ordered by frequency so I can focus on pronunciation of what is important. A list of syllables NOT used would be helpful as well, since I then can generate what I want.  [1] http://www.pinyin.info/rules/initials_finals.html [2] http://www.chinese-forums.com/index...i-an-ang-ao-5/page__view__findpost__p__124977 [3] http://www.dylwhs.talktalk.net/scilang/pinyin-stats.htm


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## terredepomme

Well there are some syllables that are never pronounced with certain tones, like ping4, ka2 or ga3. Ri is only used with the 4th tone for example.
And also in addition to four tones, technically you would have to count in the non-tone...


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## SuperXW

Chinese is a language based on its ideograms, rather than its phonology. Thus hunderds of Chinese dialects stick to a same writting system even though they pronounce very differently. So I doubt if anyone have ever summerized the unused syllables (in Putonghua. You must NOT count the dialects if you want to do this)... For us, it's unnatural to think about only the syllables without the characters. If a sound doesn't exist, it doesn't exist...


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## Einar

Thanks for your answers ladies and gentlemen. What I find specific interesting is this:  





SuperXW said:


> [..]For us, it's unnatural to think about only the syllables without the characters.[..]


  I think, I'll print the pinyin chart four times, one per tone, next to each other and then mark each syllable and tone combination as I encounter them along my way.


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## indigoduck

Einar said:


> Thanks for your answers ladies and gentlemen. What I find specific interesting is this: I think, I'll print the pinyin chart four times, one per tone, next to each other and then mark each syllable and tone combination as I encounter them along my way.



Hi Einar,

I think that is the better way to do it.

Please share with us what are the 50 most common sounds (you encounter) as you progress through your journey into Chinese language and its pronounciation, and how it changes.

I might be wrong, but I'm going to guess that 我(wo3) /你(ni3) are one of the most common sounds.


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## MèngDié

indigoduck said:


> I might be wrong, but I'm going to guess that 我(wo3) /你(ni3) are one of the most common sounds.



And 爱 （ai4) not? Sorry couldn't resist.


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## viajero_canjeado

I would have thought shi4 (是事適室視試示市士) or yi4 would be among the most common!


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## OneStroke

viajero_canjeado said:


> I would have thought shi4 (是事適室視試示市士) or yi4 would be among the most common!


I've always thought the same thing!

What about 'non-standard' syllables, like hng (哼)? Also, that table doesn't seem to contain the ^es (with a circumflex). Eh? Ahem... Hey!


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## Einar

OneStroke said:


> [..]What about 'non-standard' syllables, like hng (哼)?[..]


I looked up 哼 at MDGB, and apperantly the correct pinyin romanisation is *hēng*, not *hng*. 


> Also, that table doesn't seem to contain the ^es (with a circumflex).


I'm pretty sure, that circumflex is not part of pinyin, so what you are probably thinking of is Wade-Giles romanisation, which is seldom used now a days, as fare as I understand. It uses the circumflex.


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## OneStroke

The 'correct' one is heng1, but it's pronounced hng, and listed as both in the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian. There's a few others like this too. Like 嗯.The circumflex is present in pinyin, but only for 'e'. When it is followed by a consonant or a y/w, the circumflex disappears (eg ye1zi3, coconut; one doesn't pronounce the 'e' as a 'e' sound). The only character (which is pronounced in all four tones but each has a different meaning) is 欸.

By the way, pinyin is the only correct way to romanise Chinese characters anyway, so I don't think Wade-Giles should be considered.


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## Einar

That is interesting, and you are right:


> In Pinyin romanized Mandarin Chinese, _ê_ is used to represent the sound /ɛ/ in isolation, which occurs sometimes as an exclamation. Also, _ẑ_, _ĉ_, and _ŝ_ are, despite rarely, used to represent _zh_, _ch_, and _sh_, respectively. --Wikipedia/Circumflex


This does to some degree, but not exactly, agree with your reply:


> When it is followed by a consonant or a y/w, the circumflex disappears  (eg ye1zi3, coconut; one doesn't pronounce the 'e' as a 'e' sound).


So, what you're saying here is that the sound /ɛ/ _does _exist in other places than in isolation as the Wikipedia author claims? And not to question your authority, I am sure that you know much more about this than me, but could this be a possible regionalism?

Just curious: Can you think of "ê" with an additonal tone mark on top of the circumflex?


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## OneStroke

Yes, ê can have a tone mark above it, though I'm not sure how to type the first and third tones. (Certainly it is possible, or the Xiandai Hanyu Cidian can't type it.

Yes, /ɛ/ is used in other places too, only with i or ü. I did make a mistake in my last post, since it can't be followed directly by a w or by a consonant (that would be pronounced as the 'normal' e).

Examples:
ie: 別, 撇, 滅, 跌, 鐵, 捏, 列, 街, 且, 些, (no consonant, y instead of i) 夜
ei: 杯, 配, 妹, 非, 得, 內, 類, 給, 黑, 賊
üe: 絕, 卻, 學, (no consonant, with a 'y') 月
u(e)i: 堆, 頹, 規, 虧, 會, 最, 璀, 歲, 追, 垂, 稅, 瑞, (no consonant, w instead of u) 委

I'm only saying what I learn from school. I hope you don't mind.


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## xiaolijie

Einar, 
From the way the discussion has been going, I'm not sure if it helps at all at your beginning stage of learning Chinese. I have the impression that it may instead confuse you and stop you from doing what you should have been doing: just start _learning the language _itself, and _questions about the language_ such as the one in this thread should be put off to a much later stage, when you're yourself advanced enough to judge the information received.


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## Ralpho

SuperXW said:


> Chinese is a language based on its ideograms, rather than its phonology. Thus hunderds of Chinese dialects stick to a same writting system even though they pronounce very differently. So I doubt if anyone have ever summerized the unused syllables (in Putonghua. You must NOT count the dialects if you want to do this)... For us, it's unnatural to think about only the syllables without the characters. If a sound doesn't exist, it doesn't exist...



Sorry, I am not understanding your comment. Are you suggesting that the OP is doing something wrong by researching the subject of pinyin syllable frequency?


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## HYCHIN

Einar said:


> ...  What I want is a list or a full table with those 1200 syllables and preferebly ordered by frequency ...



Go to http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/ and 漢語拼音檢索 therein. This does not give you four tables for each tone, but you can find what are the possible tones for each Initial-Final combination.
And I think there is something missing, say the syllable _shei_ 誰.

If you are considering the spoken language, then it is not wrong to research on the Mandarin syllabary. But you need to be careful when you define a syllable: whether you will count the neutral tone a separate tone.

I guess the most common sound is _de_ in the neutral tone.


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## Ralpho

HYCHIN said:


> Go to (... a certain link ...) and 漢語拼音檢索 therein.



That is a most helpful table! Thank you.


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