# Ich arbeite nicht in / an einer / der Schule



## Anne Frank

Hi there!
Which one is correct to say that I don't work in a school?
As far as I got it, we could say ich arbeite in/an einer Schule, Then, logically, the negation should be ich arbeite in/an keiner Schule.
On the other hand I was said that one can say ich arbeite in/an einer Schule nicht ( which one is honestly confusing)
The most possible negation seems to be ich arbeite in/an die Schule nicht, but wouldn't that mean that I don't work in a specific school, not generally?
Help me out please.


----------



## Uncle BBB

Alle Möglichkeiten sind korrekt.

Ich arbeite an einer Schule. Ich arbeite in einer Schule. Ich arbeite in der Schule.

Ich arbeite nicht in/an einer Schule.


----------



## Anne Frank

Uncle BBB said:


> Alle Möglichkeiten sind korrekt.
> 
> Ich arbeite an einer Schule. Ich arbeite in einer Schule. Ich arbeite in der Schule.
> 
> Ich arbeite nicht in/an einer Schule.


Ich arbeite in/an keiner Schule  is also correct?


----------



## Alemanita

In the context of: 
Q: Du unterrichtest Deutsch? An welcher Schule arbeitest du?
A: Ich arbeite an der Uni, an einem Spracheninstitut und an der Volkshochschule, aber an keiner Schule.


----------



## Thersites

Anne Frank said:


> Which one is correct to say that I don't work in a school?
> As far as I got it, we could say ich arbeite in/an einer Schule, Then, logically, the negation should be ich arbeite in/an keiner Schule.


Yes, that is correct!


Anne Frank said:


> On the other hand I was said that one can say ich arbeite in/an einer Schule nicht ( which one is honestly confusing)


_Ich arbeite an einer Schule nicht _is clearly wrong as a negation to your question. You should just forget it.


Anne Frank said:


> The most possible negation seems to be ich arbeite in/an die Schule nicht


This too would just be plain wrong in your context.

_Nein, ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule.
Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule._

These two are correct.


----------



## JClaudeK

Thomas(CH) said:


> These two are correct.


But only in a certain context (énumeration) - see #4:


Alemanita said:


> In the context of:
> Q: Du unterrichtest Deutsch? An welcher Schule arbeitest du?
> A: Ich arbeite an der Uni, an einem Spracheninstitut und an der Volkshochschule, aber an keiner Schule.



Or:
Ich arbeite an der Uni, an einem Spracheninstitut und an der Volkshochschule, aber nicht an einer  Schule.


----------



## Anne Frank

JClaudeK said:


> But only in a certain context (énumeration) - see #4:
> 
> 
> Or:
> Ich arbeite an der Uni, an einem Spracheninstitut und an der Volkshochschule, aber nicht an einer  Schule.


I'm confused...


----------



## JClaudeK

Thomas(CH) said:


> _Nein, ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule.
> Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule._
> 
> These two are correct.



_These two are correct_ but the second only  _in a certain context._


----------



## Thersites

This now is what the forum rules call _Glasperlenspiel_ and I wonder if it is of any help to the current needs of the OP


----------



## JClaudeK

Thomas(CH) said:


> I wonder if it is of any help to the current needs of the OP


Yes, IMO it's  important (for everybody) to know that "_Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule." _isn't the '_natural_' answer to the question _"Arbeitest Du an einer Schule?"_


----------



## Anne Frank

JClaudeK said:


> Yes, IMO it's  important (for everybody) to know that "_Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule." _isn't the '_natural_' answer to the question _"Arbeitest Du an einer Schule?"_


What is the natural one?


----------



## Frieder

Anne Frank said:


> What is the natural one?


Ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule.


----------



## Anne Frank

Frieder said:


> Ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule.


"Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule" is still grammatically correct?


----------



## Frieder

Of course it is . I just answered the question


Anne Frank said:


> What is the natural one?


----------



## Kajjo

Anne Frank said:


> "Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule" is still grammatically correct?


This is a complex topic, but the question should not be whether this is grammatically somehow correct, but whether it is the idiomatic and natural answer: It is not. Don't use this sentence! 

_Ich arbeite an einer Schule.
Ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule.
_
This is the correct pair of statement and negation, if no further context is provided. This pattern can be applied to almost all simple statements.

_Ich wohne in Hamburg. Ich wohne nicht in Hamburg.
Ich schlafe auf dem Boden. Ich schlafe nicht auf dem Boden.
Ich esse gerne Fischstäbchen. Ich esse nicht gerne Fischstäbchen._

This is how such negations are done, both in real life and in learning German.

Variants mit "keiner" usually imply special context, special meanings or connotations, or introduce "aber / trotzdem" subordinate clauses with a special twist to the meaning.


----------



## Anne Frank

Kajjo said:


> This is a complex topic, but the question should not be whether this is grammatically somehow correct, but whether it is the idiomatic and natural answer: It is not. Don't use this sentence!
> 
> _Ich arbeite an einer Schule.
> Ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule._
> 
> This is the correct pair of statement and negation, if no further context is provided. This pattern can be applied to almost all simple statements.
> 
> _Ich wohne in Hamburg. Ich wohne nicht in Hamburg.
> Ich schlafe auf dem Boden. Ich schlafe nicht auf dem Boden.
> Ich esse gerne Fischstäbchen. Ich esse nicht gerne Fischstäbchen._
> 
> This is how such negations are done, both in real life and in learning German.
> 
> Variants mit "keiner" usually imply special context, special meanings or connotations, or introduce "aber / trotzdem" subordinate clauses with a special twist to the meaning.


Thank you VERY much


----------



## berndf

Anne Frank said:


> "Nein, ich arbeite an keiner Schule" is still grammatically correct?


Statements with_ kein- _are answers to _how many_ and not to _yes/no_ questions. If you have several work places and you want to express that none of them is a school then the answer would make sense. If you want to express that your (one and only) workplace is not at a school, this answer would be still be grammatically correct but wouldn't make sense.


----------



## JClaudeK

berndf said:


> If you have several work places and you want to express that none of them is a school then the answer would make sense.



cf. #4



Thomas(CH) said:


> This now is what the forum rules call _Glasperlenspiel_


No nitpicking at all.


----------



## Anne Frank

berndf said:


> Statements with_ kein- _are answers to _how many_ and not to _yes/no_ questions. If you have several work places and you want to express that none of them is a school then the answer would make sense. If you want to express that your (one and only) workplace is not at a school, this answer would be still be grammatically correct but wouldn't make sense.


It confused me because they say kein should always be used with indefinite article or with plurrals, so, as far as «einer Schule» has one, I decided I should use keiner here instead of nicht.


----------



## Alemanita

Anne Frank said:


> t confused me because they say kein should always be used with indefinite article or with plurrals, so, as far as «einer Schule» has one, I decided I should use keiner here instead of nicht.



Yes, but it is "*an* einer Schule"

The cases you refer to are cases like:
Ich habe eine Schule. - Ich habe keine Schule.
Ich esse eine Banane. - Ich esse keine Banane.
Ich habe einen Bruder.- Ich habe keinen Bruder.
Ich will einen Mann. - Ich will keinen Mann.
Ich sehe drei Bäume.- Ich sehe keine Bäume.


----------



## Alemanita

Kajjo said:


> Ich esse gerne Fischstäbchen. Ich esse nicht gerne Fischstäbchen.


In this example, "nicht" modifies "gerne".


----------



## Anne Frank

Alemanita said:


> Yes, but it is "*an* einer Schule"
> 
> The cases you refer to are cases like:
> Ich habe eine Schule. - Ich habe keine Schule.
> Ich esse eine Banane. - Ich esse keine Banane.
> Ich habe einen Bruder.- Ich habe keinen Bruder.
> Ich will einen Mann. - Ich will keinen Mann.
> Ich sehe drei Bäume.- Ich sehe keine Bäume.


It all about the preposition? That's why we can't functionally use kein here?😯


----------



## berndf

Anne Frank said:


> It all about the preposition? That's why we can't functionally use kein here?😯


_Ich habe nicht eine Banane_ is in principle ambiguous because _eine_ can mean either _a_ or _one_. It could theoretically be understood as
1. _Ich habe nicht (eine Banane) = I don't have a banana._
or as
2. _Ich habe (nicht eine) Banane = I have not even one banana_.

This is why you use the construction with keine instead if you intend to say 1. The construction with _nicht eine_ would be understood as 2. With an preposition the ambiguity doesn't arise (1. _nicht an einer_ vs 2. _an nicht einer_). That's why it makes a difference.


----------



## Anne Frank

berndf said:


> _Ich habe nicht eine Banane_ is in principle ambiguous because _eine_ can mean either _a_ or _one_. It could theoretically be understood as
> 1. _Ich habe nicht (eine Banane) = I don't have a banana._
> or as
> 2. _Ich habe (nicht eine) Banane = I have not even one banana_.
> 
> This is why you use the construction with keine instead if you intend to say 1. The construction with _nicht eine_ would be understood as 2. With an preposition the ambiguity doesn't arise (1. _nicht an einer_ vs 2. _an nicht einer_). That's why it makes a difference.


Ich arbeite nicht an einer Schule = i don't work in a school, while ich arbeite an nicht einer Schule = I don't work even in one school??


----------



## JClaudeK

Anne Frank said:


> ich arbeite an nicht einer Schule


simply wrong.


----------



## Anne Frank

JClaudeK said:


> simply wrong.


Oh, so it just doesn't work, and whenever we see ich arbeite nicht an.. we just know what it means, there's just double meaning as with ein?


----------



## berndf

JClaudeK said:


> simply wrong.


Depends what you want to say and how you stress it. Suppose you want to express that your work takes you to many places but not one of them is a school. What you would normally do then would be to add einzig to stress it even more: _Ich arbeite nicht an einer einzigen Schule._ But if you stress einer sufficiently, you could omit _einzig_.


----------



## JClaudeK

berndf said:


> What you would normally do then would be to add einzig to stress it even more: Ich arbeite_ nicht an_ einer einzigen Schule. But if you stress einer sufficiently, you could omit _einzig_.



But it's not about "nicht an" but about "an nicht".


Anne Frank said:


> ich arbeite an nicht einer Schule


No matter how you stress, Edit: (without any further context) for me this sounds wrong .


----------



## berndf

JClaudeK said:


> But it's not about "nicht an" but about "an nicht".


Sorry I meant
_Ich arbeite an nicht einer einzigen Schule._


----------



## Anne Frank

berndf said:


> Sorry I meant
> _Ich arbeite an nicht einer einzigen Schule._


So ich arbeite an nicht einer Schule simply doesn't exist by itself, and we can't say that, so there is no any doubt about the meaning unlike with kein, so we use nicht instead of kein to avoid misunderstanding that kein could lead us to?


----------



## anahiseri

Alemanita said:


> Yes, but it is "*an* einer Schule"
> 
> The cases you refer to are cases like:
> Ich habe eine Schule. - Ich habe keine Schule.
> Ich esse eine Banane. - Ich esse keine Banane.
> Ich habe einen Bruder.- Ich habe keinen Bruder.
> Ich will einen Mann. - Ich will keinen Mann.
> Ich sehe drei Bäume.- Ich sehe keine Bäume.


I think Alemanita makes an important point here. All her examples are with transitive Verbs (direct Object) In these  sentences the correct and idiomatic way to make the negative is with *kein.*
In the example we are dealing with, *kein *would only be idiomatic in a sentence like this:
*Ich arbeite an keiner Schule, sondern  in einem Büro.*


----------



## Anne Frank

anahiseri said:


> I think Alemanita makes an important point here. All her examples are with transitive Verbs (direct Object) In these  sentences the correct and idiomatic way to make the negative is with *kein.*
> In the example we are dealing with, *kein *would only be idiomatic in a sentence like this:
> *Ich arbeite an keiner Schule, sondern  in einem Büro.*


So the preposition makes the object indirect?


----------



## JClaudeK

Anne Frank said:


> So the preposition makes the object indirect?


{an einer Schule}/ {in einem Büro}/ {zu Hause} / ..........
are not indirect objects but 'adverbial phrases of place' answering the question _Where_?



anahiseri said:


> In the example we are dealing with, *kein *would only be idiomatic in a sentence like this:
> *Ich arbeite an keiner Schule, sondern in einem Büro.*


I would not use "kein" here, but "nicht":
_Ich arbeite *nicht* an einer Schule, sondern in einem Büro._


----------



## Anne Frank

JClaudeK said:


> {an einer Schule}/ {in einem Büro}/ {zu Hause} / ..........
> are not indirect objects but 'adverbial phrases of place' answering the question _Where_?
> 
> 
> I would not use "kein" here, but "nicht":
> _Ich arbeite *nicht* an einer Schule, sondern in einem Büro._


I got it now. It all about nicht placement in a sentence: kein is never used with anything but noun, and whenever we have an object with a preposition,  as in my case, we should definitely use nicht. Kein never works.


----------

