# Пародист рaзыгpaл кaндидaтa в пpeзиденты



## Jana337

I tried to parse this and have two questions:
Is "президенты" a plural? If not, I am afraid I cannot pin down the case. :S
I was a bit surprised that they refer to Ségolène Royal as a кандидат; кандидатка is not a common usage?

Спасибо,

Яна


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## K.u.r.t

definitely a plural.
maybe it is not necessary to always use the feminine form?


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## Brian P

Jana337 said:


> I was a bit surprised that they refer to Ségolène Royal as a кандидат; кандидатка is not a common usage?
> 
> Спасибо,
> 
> Яна


 
In the USA and UK it is now politically incorrect to use feminine forms such as "actress", "usherette", "manageress" etc. The terms "actor", "usher" and "manager" are used for both sexes. Maybe it's the same in France and Russia.


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## K.u.r.t

Brian P said:


> In the USA and UK it is now politically incorrect to use feminine forms such as "actress", "usherette", "manageress" etc. The terms "actor", "usher" and "manager" are used for both sexes. Maybe it's the same in France and Russia.



Sad but true  pretty soon all adjectives and descrptive words will be swapped in favour of a whole new politically correct set. I hope I won't be around when this happens though. PC is like plague when not used with care


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> I tried to parse this and have two questions:
> Is "президенты" a plural? If not, I am afraid I cannot pin down the case. :S
> I was a bit surprised that they refer to Ségolène Royal as a кандидат; кандидатка is not a common usage?
> 
> Спасибо,
> 
> Яна


Президенты is formally plural, but doesn't mean number of presidents > 1.
Compare:
Я остался в дураках - I've got into foolish situation (I look like a fool).
Он выбился в люди. - He became a respectable person.
Его забрали в солдаты - He was recruited.
После школы он пошёл в строители - Upon completing the school he became a builder.
All this refer to only one person - fool, person, soldier, builder, but in a generalized sense, like in the case with президенты.
As for the feminine forms of professions, there is no any fixed rule in Russian: some of them may have it, and some may not, it's depend on the tradition.
Moreover, some female forms don't mean just a woman of some profession, but something pejorative, for example:
Генеральша is not a woman-general, but a wife of a general.
Докторша or врачиха really mean a woman-doctor, but in the colloquial and disrespectful style.
Anna Akhmatova hated when somebody called her поэтесса.
But преподавательница or учительница are quite neutral.
Кандидат nowadays is used only in the male form when talking about кандидат наук, кандидат в мастера спорта, кандидат в президенты and other official titles. But in the everyday life кандидатка is quite possible. In the contemporary dictionaries this word is still marked as colloquial.


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## marina6

Jana337 said:


> Is "президенты" a plural? If not, I am afraid I cannot pin down the case. :S



You are quite right! In this case the word "президенты" is used in plural.

In fact, that depends on the preposition used after the word "кандидат". If you say "кандидат *в*", you should use the following word in plural, for instance: "кандидат в президенты", "кандидат в депутаты".

But if you say "кандидат *на пост*", then the next word will be singular: "кандидат на пост президента", "кандидат на пост премьер-министра".



Jana337 said:


> I was a bit surprised that they refer to Ségolène Royal as a кандидат; кандидатка is not a common usage?



The word "кандидат" is always used in masculine gender. "Кандидатка" would sound depreciatingly or even offensive.


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## Jana337

Maroseika said:


> Его забрали в солдаты


Analogically to this example, could I, as a mental aid, think of it as a candidate "into the ranks of presidents"? That is, a candidate who, if successful, will join the president of Germany, the president of Poland etc.?

Many thanks for all replies so far.

Jana

P.S. Welcome, Marina!


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## Crescent

Jana337 said:


> Analogically to this example, could I, as a mental aid, think of it as a candidate "into the ranks of presidents"? That is, a candidate who, if successful, will join the president of Germany, the president of Poland etc.?


Yes, I think that's a good idea, if you it helps you, Jana!  
Президетны in this case will always be in the plural, because it is refering all (or most) of the presidents in the world, from all countries, just like as you yourself have pointed out.  
As for: кандидатка - I didn't know this before Maroseika pointed it out (thanks  ) but it seemes that he is right: this word is so informal, that it's not even in my ABBYY lingvo dictionary! 
I think you could also equally say: _кандидатура в президетны_ and that would give you nearly the same as the _candidates for president_. 

P.S. Oh, yes, and Marina: welcome to the WR forums! We hope you like it here.


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> Analogically to this example, could I, as a mental aid, think of it as a candidate "into the ranks of presidents"? That is, a candidate who, if successful, will join the president of Germany, the president of Poland etc.?


I guess, it's quite reasonable, and not only as a mental aid. Most likely *rank* of the homogenous members is what is meant.


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## AndrzejR

The same in Ukrainian: _кандідат в презіденти УкраЇни_.

In Polish I have found only: _On poszedł w dyrektory_ (very colloquial) - He became a director.


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## Maroseika

Crescent said:


> this word is so informal, that it's not even in my ABBYY lingvo dictionary!


This place may turn to be much more useful in such cases: www. gramota.ru (раздел - Справка). And don't forget to put *all* dictionaries on.


Crescent said:


> I think you could also equally say: _кандидатура в президетны_ and that would give you nearly the same as the _candidates for president_.


Кандидатура в президенты - I'm afraid this is impossible expression. Usually say кандидатура на пост президента.


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## marina6

Jana337 said:


> Analogically to this example, could I, as a mental aid, think of it as a candidate "into the ranks of presidents"? That is, a candidate who, if successful, will join the president of Germany, the president of Poland etc.?
> 
> Many thanks for all replies so far.
> 
> Jana
> 
> P.S. Welcome, Marina!



Thank you! I'm really very glad to be here!

It seems to me, that it is a very good idea to describe it as "a candidate into the ranks of presidents". But probably it's more about joining the previous presidents of Russia, and not those of Germany or other countries.


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## Jana337

marina6 said:


> Thank you! I'm really very glad to be here!
> 
> It seems to me, that it is a very good idea to describe it as "a candidate into the ranks of presidents". But probably it's more about joining the previous presidents of Russia, and not those of Germany or other countries.


Certainly not impossible! Let's put it to a simple test: The Pope is (mostly) unique. If the sentence works here, would you use a plural or not?

Jana


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## yoku

Всем привет!
А можете сказать то, в каком падеже стоит слово "президенты" в предложении с самого верха? Невозможно определить мне.
Заранее спасибо!


--------------------------------------------------
Пожалуйста, исправьте меня, если я допустил какие-нибудь ошибки.


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## marina6

Jana337 said:


> Certainly not impossible! Let's put it to a simple test: The Pope is (mostly) unique. If the sentence works here, would you use a plural or not?
> 
> Jana



When speaking about the Pope, I wouldn't use the construction "кандидат в" + a plural noun at all. "Кандидат на пост Папы Римского" is more common.

I think, there are only two examples with "кандидат в": кандидат в президенты, кандидат в депутаты.

All the others require "кандидат на пост": кандидат на пост главы государства (although it's the same as "кандидат в президенты"), кандидат на пост министра образования / спикера парламента / председателя.



			
				yoku said:
			
		

> Всем привет!
> А можете сказать то, в каком падеже стоит слово "президенты" в предложении с самого верха? Невозможно определить мне.
> Заранее спасибо!



Примитивное склонение слова "президент" во множественном числе показывает, что это - именительный падеж! Сама не верю своим глазам, однако:

именительный - президенты
родительный   - президентов
дательный      - президентам
винительный   - президентов
творительный  - президентами
предложный    - президентах


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## Maroseika

Jana337 said:


> Certainly not impossible! Let's put it to a simple test: The Pope is (mostly) unique. If the sentence works here, would you use a plural or not?
> 
> Jana


Кандидат в Папы - gramatically quite normal, on my opinion.


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## Maroseika

yoku said:


> Всемпривет!
> А можете сказать то, в каком падеже стоит слово "президенты" в заглавном предложении с самого верха? Невозможно Я не могу определить мне.Заранее спасибо!
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------
> Пожалуйста, исправьте меня, если я допустил какие-нибудь ошибки.


Это не такой простой вопрос. Дело в том, что синтаксически "президенты" является дополнением, а потому должно быть в косвенном падеже. Но ведь по форме - падеж либо *именительный,* либо* неодушевлённый винительный*! 
Возможно, здесь мы имеем дело с архаичной формой склонения, сохранившейся в таком устойчивом обороте (т.е. неразличение одушевлённого и неодушевлённого винительного).
Сравните: "Иду на вы" - из древней русской летописи.
Я попробую выяснить этот вопрос и рассказать о результате изысканий.


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## marina6

Maroseika said:


> Кандидат в Папы - gramatically quite normal, on my opinion.



Yes, grammatically it's correct. But if you mean the Pope, you can't omit the word "Римский". Then the full expression will be "кандидат в Папы Римские" and it is not used in Russian. I tried to google it, but I got no results. Even if it's clear from the context, that you speak about the Pope, I wouldn't recommend to use "кандидат в Папы".


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## Maroseika

marina6 said:


> Yes, grammatically it's correct. But if you mean the Pope, you can't omit the word "Римский". Then the full expression will be "кандидат в Папы Римские" and it is not used in Russian. I tried to google it, but I got no results. Even if it's clear from the context, that you speak about the Pope, I wouldn't recommend to use "кандидат в Папы".


I found in google 6 links for "кандидат в папы рисмкие" and 438 for "кандидат в Папы. I think that's because specification "Римские" is quite exсessive, because it is usually clear what is meant. "Кандидат в папы" is used very widely nowadays and I don't understand why do you consider it undesirable.
Could you please explain?


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## marina6

Maroseika said:


> I found in google 6 links for "кандидат в папы рисмкие" and 438 for "кандидат в Папы. I think that's because specification "Римские" is quite exсessive, because it is usually clear what is meant. "Кандидат в папы" is used very widely nowadays and I don't understand why do you consider it undesirable.
> Could you please explain?



Sorry, but google still doesn't want to give me any results to my search! I tried to find "кандидат в Папы Римские", "Кандидат в Папы Римские", and 2 more variants with the word "кандидат ..." in plural (all in quotes).

But there were 1-3 results in yahoo and rambler. All of them linked to different forums. I'll try to explain, why I dislike the expression, using an example from one of them (grani.ru/Politics/World/Asia/d.116344.html?rm=sform&thread=475577):

The 1st sentence of the article:
"Кандидат в президенты Туркмении от Объединенной демократической оппозиции республики, председатель Народного демократического движения "Агзыбирлик" Нурберды Нурмаммедов пропал в Ашхабаде."

The 1st reply:
"Интересно, а почему не кандидат в папы римские? Какое отношение к Туркменистану имеет эта группа людей???"

As you can see, it's not about the Pope. And what's more, "кандидат в папы римские" is used here to express the person's disregard of those people. I don't think Jana337 meant the same when asking her question.



Maroseika said:


> "Кандидат в папы" is used very widely nowadays



But it's not always related to the Pope! I think, at least 50% of 66 articles found by google for me were not about him.


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## Maroseika

marina6 said:


> Sorry, but google still doesn't want to give me any results to my search! I tried to find "кандидат в Папы Римские", "Кандидат в Папы Римские", and 2 more variants with the word "кандидат ..." in plural (all in quotes).


Well, isn't it quite natural, because "кандидат в папы" is usually absolutely clear and doesn't require any additional specification.


marina6 said:


> I'll try to explain, why I dislike the expression, using an example from one of them (grani.ru/Politics/World/Asia/d.116344.html?rm=sform&thread=475577):


Sorry, I still cannot understand your aversion to this expression: it may be used in the negative sense in some context, but in fact it's quite neutral, though a bit excessive in the most number of contexts.


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## dima_david

Brian P said:


> In the USA and UK it is now politically incorrect to use feminine forms such as "actress", "usherette", "manageress" etc. The terms "actor", "usher" and "manager" are used for both sexes. Maybe it's the same in France and Russia.



Brian, in all my life here in the US I've never once heard the terms "usherette" or "manageress". "Actress", on the other hand, is a commonly used word. I don't believe it is regarded as "un-politically correct". I can't imagine "actor" being applied to a woman, at least not without a qualifying "female" in front (while no one would think twice about saying "She's a manager at NBC", for example). And both the Oscar's and IMDB sites use "actress" rather than "female actor".

(To all: I realize that this is not the appropriate forum for discussing the word usage in English, but I thought it necessary to qualify Brian's statement in the same thread.)


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