# ignoscere, to forgive, to pardon



## Mister Draken

I have recently come to learn that the latin verb ignoscere means to forgive, to pardon. Apparently, there isn't an Italian verb derived from it with the same meaning. Now, the verb is formed by the prefix –in ("not") + (g)nōscō, -ere ("to know").

I fail to grasp how a verb which signifies "not to know" means to forgive. Could any fellow forum user be so kind as to point out where I could possibly find some more information about this latin verb?

Thanks


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## Sobakus

"[to pretend] not to know > to ignore, not to notice > to willingly overlook, forgive, pardon". There's also the related _ignōrāre_ "not to know, to disregard", which has a descendant in Catalan _enyorar_ "to miss, long for". If you're still looking for more information, I might be able to point you in the right direction if I know what kind of information.


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## bearded

Mister Draken said:


> how a verb which signifies "not to know" means to forgive


I think through the meaning ''not to recognize someone's error'' as such.  But please wait for experts' replies.



Mister Draken said:


> Apparently, there isn't an Italian verb derived from it with the same meaning.


No, there isn't. We only have _ignoto_ (unknown) from the past participle of ''ignoscere''.

--cross-posted--


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## Sobakus

bearded said:


> No, not with the same meaning. We only have _ignoto_ (unknown) from the past participle of ''ignoscere''.


There's also _fare lo gnòrri_ "to play dumb, pretend not to know/understand", but judging by the open _ò_ it's probably a corrupted Latinism.


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## Mister Draken

Sobakus said:


> If you're still looking for more information, I might be able to point you in the right direction if I know what kind of information.


I would like to know whether _ignoscere_ coexisted with other Latin verb or verbs of the same or similar meaning since _ignoscere_ was, as far as I know, a cultism, or wasn't it?. Besides, I would like to have some historical information: was _ignoscere_ still in used during the Middle Ages and until Latin was less and less talked and written? Thanks for your help


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## Agró

*ignosco* , nōvi, nōtum, 3 (
*I.*_plqpf. sync._ ignosset, _Sil. 8, 619_; _part. fut._ ignosciturus, Piso Frugi ap. _Prisc. p. 887_; Ambros. de Noë, 13, 47; also ignoturus, Cic. ap. _Prisc. p. 886_), v. a. 2. in-gnosco, nosco; lit., *not to wish to know, not to search into*; *hence, with esp. reference to a fault or crime, to pardon, forgive, excuse, *_*overlook*_ (class.; syn.: parco, indulgeo); constr. _alicui_ (_aliquid_, _quod_, _si_, etc.), with simple _aliquid_ or _absol._

Charlton T. Lewis, Charles Short, _A Latin Dictionary_


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## Sobakus

Mister Draken said:


> I would like to know whether _ignoscere_ coexisted with other Latin verb or verbs of the same or similar meaning since _ignoscere_ was, as far as I know, a cultism, or wasn't it?. Besides, I would like to have some historical information: was _ignoscere_ still in used during the Middle Ages and until Latin was less and less talked and written? Thanks for your help


A cultism is a Latin borrowing into a Romance language - there can be no cultisms in Latin. _ignōscere_ is part of the core vocabulary of Latin in every period, and the 742nd most common word classically. It's a word as indispensible to the language as 'forgive' is to English. You should have no qualms about using it.

I've already mentioned one word of similar make-up and meaning; there's another related expression, _veniam dare_ "to give permission, to allow, to let off", literally "to give leave". The action is noticed, unlike with _ignōscere, _but nevertheless allowed, excused, indulged etc. The person is allowed to walk away without consequence. For example a boy in class would say _dā veniam, magister_ in order to ask to go to the bathroom.

_excūsāre_ "to absolve from blame" is also somewhat similar in being used to ask for something like forgiveness. For example you'd say _excūsēs rogō_ when letting someone know you can't come to dinner, or if you've failed to fulfill an obligation - you're asking not to blame you, since you have a reason, an excuse.


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## Mister Draken

Thank all of you. Indeed cultism was not the right choice of word. I was thinking about a word used by the upper and most cultivated echelons of the Roman society but now @Sobakus has kindly pointed out that _ignoscere_ was part of the common vocabulary throughout the centuries.

In Spanish there is a similar expression to _Veniam dare_ (dar venia) and  _excūsēs rogō (rogar que _alguien_ me excuse). _


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## Sobakus

Mister Draken said:


> In Spanish there is a similar expression to _Veniam dare_ (dar venia) and  _excūsēs rogō (rogar que _alguien_ me excuse). _


Yep, these really are borrowed cultisms in Spanish, and no connection is felt between _venir_ and _venia_, _excusar _and _cosa_ or _causar,_ unlike in Latin, so their meanings and uses are much more cultivated and abstract. That said the meanings that RAE gives are very similar to the original ones.

edit: huh, actually _venia_ isn't connected with _venīre,_ but with _Venus_ and 'wish'.


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## bearded

Sobakus said:


> There's also _fare lo gnòrri_


Actually, 'gnorri' should be from _ignorare _(cf. to ignore). 
Etimologia : gnorri


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