# Welsh: 9Bach (bach)



## AndrasBP

Hello,

In the name of the Welsh group *9Bach*, 9 is a pun on "nain", meaning "grandmother", while apparently the adjective "bach" (little) is also used as an endearment term.
Shouldn't it be "*f*ach" after a feminine noun? Or does the mutation only apply when an adjective is used descriptively, not as a form of address?


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## Stoggler

I thought the Welsh for the number nine was 'naw'.  Nain rhymes with the German for nine 'nein' - is that what's being punned?


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## Ghabi

Stoggler said:


> Nain rhymes with the German for nine 'nein'


You mean German _nein_ or _neun_? As Andras explains, the (bilingual) pun is on English "nine" and Welsh "nain".


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## Stoggler

Ghabi said:


> You mean German _nein_ or _neun_? As Andras explains, the (bilingual) pun is on English "nine" and Welsh "nain".



Oh yeah, I got that all wrong!


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## Ghabi

Never mind. But the original question (bach vs fach) hasn't been answered, perhaps @Tegs can help.


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## Tegs

I would always mutate adjectives qualifying a singular feminine noun, and that also goes for proper nouns such as names of people and titles such as "mamgu" (I don't use "nain" since that's a northern word for grandmother and I speak a southern dialect, where grandmother is "mamgu"). So if I am referring to a little girl, I might say "Mari fach", "Eleri fach" and so forth. I definitely wouldn't say "Mari bach". But, I _have_ heard other people do this, and this is why: according to Peter Wynn's book Gramadeg y Gymraeg, page 199, _bach_ mutates regularly in standard Welsh, but does not mutate in northern dialects when it qualifies a singular feminine noun. The book then gives as examples the places names Yr Eglwys-*f*ach in Ceredigion (mid to south Wales) and Yr Eglwys-*b*ach in Clwyd (north). 

This is an exception, this resistance to mutation with "bach" in the north. It's not the case for other adjectives in the northern dialect.


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## AndrasBP

Thank you very much for the explanation. Diolch yn fawr.


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