# All dialects/MSA: rub it in



## Josh_

I was thinking about the idea of "rubbing it in" today and could not think of an Arabic equivalent.  So I wondering about how to express this idea in Arabic (in both MSA and the dialects) -- what verbs there are (if there are any) and/or what idioms.

If it helps I have copied the dictionary.com definition below:


			
				Dictionary.com said:
			
		

> rub it in, _Informal_. to emphasize or reiterate something unpleasant in order to tease or annoy: _The situation was embarrassing enough without having you rub it in_.



I look forward to your responses.


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## cherine

The only colloquial equivalent I could think of is "na2Sa".
الحكاية مش ناقصة
مش ناقصاك
الموضوع مش ناقص

Maybe the verb "ya7tamil"(MSA) "yasta7mil" (colloquial usage) can also be used:
الموضوع مش مستحمل
الموضوع لا يحتمل
الموقف لا يحتمل 

Yes, we don't use a direct reference to a person's rubbing it in, but in the second Egyptian sentence, this means is -I think- a bit clear.

I don't know if my suggestion fits, and unfortunately I don't know about the other colloquial forms. But I hope I could at least give a hint or open a way for other suggestions.


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## zooz

That's interesting, Josh. I too can't think of anything at the moment, but I'll keep it in my mind. The only one that came to my mind is (not MSA): *تعيد وتزيد*. I don't think it works in all situations though.

I like Cherine's colloquial takes, and we say them in Syria as well. Maybe if you, Josh, can provide more sentences and situations to help finding more expressions.

I found this example on the net:


> I know I made a mistake, but you don't have to rub it in.


Syrian:*بعرف إني غلطت، ما في داعي تعيد وتزيد*
Egyptian:*أنا عارف إني غلطت، وأنا مش ناقصاك*


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## Josh_

Thank you guys for your responses.

Here are some other examples that may give better perspective:

1)  A father tells his child "no candy," but then the mother gives the child candy and he/she immediately goes to the father, waves the candy in front of his face, and says, "Look dad, I have candy.  Mom gave me some candy."

2)  Two employees, A and B, are vying for the same position.  'A' ends up getting the position and every time he/she goes by B's desk makes a point of telling B that he/she did not get the position.

3)  A student got a bad grade on his/her test and his friends keep laughing at him/her and bringing up the fact of the bad grade.

4)  A group of friends are at the roller rink when one of them falls down.  For the rest of the evening the others kept laughing him/her because of this.

What do you guys think about شمت، يشمت (shimit, yishmat (Egyptian pronunciation))?  It doesn't exactly mean 'to rub in', but it is the closest verb I could think of that expresses a similar/related idea.  It means to gloat or to derive enjoyment at another's misfortune or at someone else's expense; shadenfreude.  'Gloating' and 'rubbing in' aren't exactly the same, but often times one is implicit in the other.  So even though شمت  doesn't exactly mean 'to rub in'  it might be able to be used in some contexts, such as in examples 2, 3, and 4, above.  What do you guys think?  And to emphasize the idea of 'emphasizing' or reiterating something bad, maybe we could add a عمال، قعد or other modal of continuation in there:

"ساعة ما دلقت القهوة على المكتب والمدير زعقت في زميلي عمال/قاعد يشمت في ويقول للآخرين"
"saa3it ma dala2t il-2ahwa 3a-l-maktab wa 'l-mudiir za33a2 fiyya zamiili 3ammaal/2aa3id yishmat fiyya wa-yi2uul li-l-2akhariin."

There's another word I am aware of in Egyptian Arabic that might (emphasis on the 'might') represent a similar idea, but I am unsure I completely understand its meaning -- اتمرع، يتمرع (itmara3, yitmiri3).  I know it means to swell with pride or be prideful, but in the times I've heard it used it seems to be pride in a negative sense, like swelling with pride at someone else's expense or at doing something to someone else. I'm not sure though.  Possibly a topic for another thread.

Of course, if these words exist in other dialects I am interested in hearing about the usages therein.


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## cherine

Hi Josh,

Yes, I think the examples are different and not really about "rubbing in" (not that I'm 100% sure I understand the exact meaning of the expression  )
So, I'll take them one by one, but first I'd like to comment on the verb يشمت : this verb means that you're happy at someon's troubles, let's say that for example if someone that you hate is fired from his/her job, gets sick or even dies and you feel happy at hearing this news. This is what we call shamaata. But الشماتة is not necessarily expressed by words, so in most, if not all, of the situations you mention we can't really use this. Specially that it's a very "dark" feeling, something really bad.
While there's another verb in colloquial Egyptian expression the idea of reminding people with their problems/faults, trying to make them feel ashamed and sad; it's ye3aayer يعاير ; the fus7a is yu3ayyir يُعَيِّر we say: عَيَّر إنسانًا بفقره أو بجهله أو بقبحه ...
Maybe this is what would work most, or best, with some of your examples.


Josh Adkins said:


> 1) A father tells his child "no candy," but then the mother gives the child candy and he/she immediately goes to the father, waves the candy in front of his face, and says, "Look dad, I have candy. Mom gave me some candy."


In such a situation, if we want to speak about the boy, we won't say he's بيشمت/شمتان في أبوه , but we can say that he's teasing him بيغيظه beyghiizo.


> 2) Two employees, A and B, are vying for the same position. 'A' ends up getting the position and every time he/she goes by B's desk makes a point of telling B that he/she did not get the position.


I think teasing would work here too.
Maybe there's a more adequate expression, but I can't think of one.


> 3) A student got a bad grade on his/her test and his friends keep laughing at him/her and bringing up the fact of the bad grade.


This can be me3ayra معايرة (the noun from the verb ye3aayer).
But can also be just tarya2a تريقة or sokhreya سخرية , specially if they're really friends. المعايرة is not really a nice thing between friends  فما بالك بالشماتة !


> 4) A group of friends are at the roller rink when one of them falls down. For the rest of the evening the others kept laughing him/her because of this.


Same as (3).


> And to emphasize the idea of 'emphasizing' or reiterating something bad, maybe we could add a عمال، قعد or other modal of continuation in there:
> 
> "ساعة ما دلقت القهوة على المكتب والمدير زعقت في زميلي عمال/قاعد يشمت في ويقول للآخرين"​​"saa3it ma dala2t il-2ahwa 3a-l-maktab wa 'l-mudiir za33a2 fiyya zamiili 3ammaal/2aa3id yishmat fiyya wa-yi2uul li-l-2akhariin."


3ammaal or aa3ed is not necessarily for something bad, they only indicate that the action is taking some time, or is repeated. Like: ana aa3da akteb radd 3ala kalaam Josh.

The good thing about your sentence is that it shows that الشماتة is not done "in the face" of the person, but more behind his/her back.



> There's another word I am aware of in Egyptian Arabic that might (emphasis on the 'might') represent a similar idea, but I am unsure I completely understand its meaning -- اتمرع، يتمرع (itmara3, yitmiri3).


This is definitely a different word. It's more like vanity or arrogance, more than pride. It's a pejorative word.
 البنت دي ممروعة ع الفاضي، فاكرة نفسها أحسن واحدة في الدنيا ومش بترضى تكلم حد ​or something like that


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## Josh_

Yes, of course.  I didn't even think about يعاير .   That could work depending on context and possibly so could a related verb -- يعيّر yi3ayyar.   And that reminds me of يعيّب yi3ayyib which I suppose could also work is some cases as it means to point out the faults of.


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## Andrew___

zooz said:


> Egyptian:*أنا عارف إني غلطت، وأنا مش ناقصاك*



Could I request someone to kindly write the transliteration for this?

Much appreciated.


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## londonmasri

ana 3aarif inni _ghalat_(?) wana mish _naqsaak_(?)
(not sure about the italics).

By the way, what does this expression mean? I couldnt quite understand it. 
and also thsi one الحكاية مش ناقصة


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## elroy

londonmasri said:


> ana 3aaref inni _ghalat_(?) ghliTet w2ana mish _naqsaak_(?) naa2sak/naa2sek


 A few corrections (based on Palestinian pronunciation). 





> By the way, what does this expression mean? I couldnt quite understand it.


 Something like "I know I messed up, and I don't need this right now."


> and also thsi one الحكاية مش ناقصة


 This also means "I don't need this."

My translations are not literal.


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## londonmasri

Many thanks, Elroy.

Just to check does 'ghiltet' = 'I made a mistake (taken from 'ghalta')? 
Would that be the same in EA; I have always been saying '3amelt ghalta' becasue I didn't know how to use it in the past tense.

shukran


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## cherine

londonmasri said:


> ana 3aaref enni _gheleTT_ we mish _na2Saak_/na2Saaki


There are a few things to note:
1- I always make a difference between "e" and "i" when transliterating Egyptian Arabic, although Josh has a different point of view about this. So, maybe you'll need to hear some Egyptian movies and/or songs to check the spelling. I only use "i" when the letter is a long vowel ي, even if shortned by pronounciation, and use the "e" (like in "end") when it's only a kasra.
2- غلطت is pronounced with a stressed ط or ت at the end, and not like the Palestianian ghliTet.
3- There's a little difference between ناقصاك and ناقصك : when I say "na2Saak", it's like الحكاية مش ناقصاك if the speaker is a guy, if the speaker is a girl then she's either meaning this, or that she herself is مش ناقصاك . The expression مش ناقصاك is like: "I don't need this", or "there's no need for this", "this" being the blaming. 


londonmasri said:


> Just to check does 'ghiltet' = 'I made a mistake (taken from 'ghalta')?


Yes, it's the verb, and ghalTa is the noun. It's like the fuS7a verb: أخطأت (akhTa2tu) and the noun is خطأ (khaTa2).


> Would that be the same in EA; I have always been saying '3amalt ghalta' becasue I didn't know how to use it in the past tense.


It's not common to say 3amalt ghalta, but it's used in certain contexts, like for example when you're working on something (a computer, for example) and you make a mistake you can say 3amalt ghalTa, or 3amalt 7aaga ghalaT.


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## londonmasri

shukran Cherine.

Just to confirm, EA would pronounce it ghile*T* and not ghil*tet*?

thanks


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## cherine

EA would pronounce it gheleTT. And the same form would be that of:
أنا غلطت (both fem. and masc.)
إنت غلطت (said to masc.)


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## londonmasri

Shukran fro the clarification.

I am slightly unsure regarding the term 'na2sa' but I shall probably leave that to another post as there may be to much on here already (unless you recommend we discuss it here).


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## Josh_

Maybe if you think of it somewhat literally, it will help in understanding.

الحكاية مش ناقصاك
It literally means "the matter is not lacking you," which doesn't make much sense in English, but if you add the the word "input" (implicit, but not written in the Arabic) it makes more sense -- "the matter is not lacking your input."  In other words -- the matter is just fine without your (unwelcome or unasked for) input.  This is where the meaning "I don't need this" comes in -- I am not lacking in it, therefore I do not need it.


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## londonmasri

Aaah... I get it now, so when someone says "ana mish naaqis", this means I am not lacking (your input), i.e. "I dont need this" (as Cherine pointed out).

So what is the pragmatic meaning of الحكاية مش ناقصاك
"the story is not lacking" BUT does it imply 'stay out of this' or 'I am fine to tell this story by myself'?

Shokrun.


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## cherine

el7ekaaya is not literally a story, but a situation. So, the situation being difficult enough already, you don't feel like hearing any reproches, advice, reprimands.... heyya mesh na2Sa هيَّ مش ناقصة


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## londonmasri

Shukran ya Cherine. 

If I wanted to say for example "you don't need anything do you?" I could say "mish 3ayza haaga" or could I say "*mish naqsa *haaga?"

So for example "_ana mish naaqis haaga"_ could mean _I have everything I need._


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## cherine

You don't need anything?= mesh 3ayza (3aayez to a male) 7aaga / mesh na2Sek(naSak to a male) 7aaga?

And to say that "I don't need anything" I say: mesh na2eSni 7aaga مش ناقصني حاجة .

Different structure and different meaning.


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## londonmasri

aah, so the ending of the root 'naqis' refers to the object e.g. me, you , the 'hikaya'

so  _mesh na2sek 7aaga_ means _you are not lacking anything._

(I think im getting this...lol)


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## Josh_

Yes, I believe that's right.


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## Ghabi

cherine said:


> we don't use a direct reference to a person's rubbing it in


If we want to tell the person "Don't rub it in!", can we use the verb أفور? Say, your sister is mad at you because you keep reminding her of her problems (sorry, just an example!) and she says: هي مش نقصاكي. متأفوريش. Would that be correct? Thanks a lot!


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## djara

In Tunisian, we say يحك الدبرة to rub the lesion (skin scraping)


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## cherine

Ghabi said:


> If we want to tell the person "Don't rub it in!", can we use the verb أفور? Say, your sister is mad at you because you keep reminding her of her problems (sorry, just an example!) and she says: هي مش نقصاكي. متأفوريش. Would that be correct? Thanks a lot!


Ye2avwar is an arabization of overdoing, i.e exaggeration مبالغة. This is why I don’t think it would work in this context.
If you keep nagging reminding a person of a problem he’s made or caused, we say that you’re بتقطّمُه bet2aTTamo. So he can tell you كفاية تقطيم بقى (stop nagging and blaming me).


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