# když vs kdy



## djwebb1969

I've come across když meaning "when", and then suddenly my textbook, without explanation, has: nevím jenom, kdy koupím dárek pro tebe.

Are když and kdy in free variation? Or are they separate words? Or words used in certain phonetic contexts only?


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## Enquiring Mind

Hi djwebb1969, in a nutshell, kdy? (When?) is the* interrogative adverb. *Když is the temporal *conjunction* for present and past, až is the temporal conjunction for future. 

For an overview of the grammar point, see Karel Tahal, 'A Grammar of Czech as a Foreign Language', FACTUM CZ, s.r.o., 2010, here, (sections 61 and 62, p211 etseq) where there are plenty of examples, and also search (using the "options" feature in your browser, if necessary), for "když" in that same pdf file, where there are more examples in context in further sections. If you have a query about the use of one or the other in a specific context, I'm sure we'll be happy to help.


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## djwebb1969

Thank you.


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## djwebb1969

I'm thinking it might be better to regard když as meaning "while", not "when".


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## Enquiring Mind

_Když_ would, in certain contexts, cover the sense of _while_ (_zatímco_), but it depends what you mean by _while_ - at the same time as, whereas/but? _Když_ doesn't cover the _whereas/but_ sense. Without _když_, there isn't really any other word (as a temporal conjunction) for _when_ in the present and past tenses. _Až_ is used in the future tense. Note that když can also mean _if _- _jestli._

_Nemám rád, když cítím, že jsem v týmu jen do počtu, protože si pak připadám zbytečný._ (source: sport.aktualne.cz)
I don't like feeling that I'm only in the team to make up the numbers, because then I feel there's no point in me being there. (literally: _I feel superfluous, _but that's not very idiomatic in conversational style)

_Může klapat vztah, když ona je Češka a on cizinec?_ (source: spy.cz)
Can a relationship work when/if she's (a) Czech and he's a foreigner?* (Can't be "while" here) 

_Zkazíš si oči, když budeš pořád takhle zírat na monitor._
You'll damage/ruin your eyes/eyesight if you keep on staring at the screen like that. (It must be "if" here, not "when" or "while")

(As always, it's important to consider context and complete sentences.) There are a couple of previous threads on this subject here and here. 
*[and the answer, by the way, is "yes" ]


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## Spikaly

Enquiring Mind said:


> _Může klapat vztah, když ona je Češka a on cizinec?_



In this sentence, _kdy_ is also possible.


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## djwebb1969

Well, the sentence in my book is: hlavní problém slovníků? Když si lidé myslí, že jsou správné (the main problem with dictionaries? when(ever) people think they are correct).

A temporal conjunction according to a definition I've found includes things like "while, when, whenever, as soon as, once, now that". Maybe "whenever" gets to the point of když more clearly?

The definition of temporal conjunction vs. interrogative adverb was confusing for me at first, until I realised that indirect questions in English contain the interrogative adverb, and not a temporal conjunction ("I don't know when it will happen"). 

Spikaly has said kdy is possible in that sentence _Může klapat vztah, když ona je Češka a on cizinec?_  but this is a clear conjunctional use and not an adverbial use. Maybe different Czech people use these words differently but for the purposes of foreigners who need a rule of thumb, it is better to stick to what Enquiring Mind said?


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## hypoch

I agree with Spikaly that *kdy *could also be used in that particular sentence. However, my feeling is this is probably something a bit different from the main topic. _Může klapat vztah, kdy ona je Češka a on cizinec?_ feels to be a special use of *kdy *where itmeans "given the following situation". Kdy is sometimes used in this way, e.g. Představme si situaci, *kdy *.... (Imagine a situation where ....) Actually, I spontaneously used *where *in the English translation (hopefully correctly , it found it better than *when *here.

Disregarding this what I think is a special use I would recommend to stick to Tahal's grammar book and just learn where kdy/když are used according to the classification he gives (there are not that many). This is probably one of those cases where it is better to forget about trying to find direct translation matches in English.


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## Spikaly

Thinking about it, there is an importat difference.

_Může klapat vztah, kdy ona je Češka a on cizinec?_ - it can be used if you are talking generally, you don't mean a particular couple
_Může klapat vztah, když ona je Češka a on cizinec?_ - it can be used in both cases - you are talking about a particular couple, or you are talking generally


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## Moravian

This might help you a bit:
_
- Kdy ti volal František? (When did František call you?)
- Když jsem šel do práce. (When I was on my way to work.)

_The thing is, when you ask somebody with _kdy?_ you ask for a particular time. The answer is possible by saying a date or a time. Again:

_- Kdy ti volal František? (When did František call you?)
- V 7 hodin. (At 7 o'clock.)
- Když jsi zrovna šel do práce? (When you just were on your way to work?)
- Ano, přesně tak. (Yes, exactly.)


_


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