# Urdu/Hindi: jald جلد



## Qureshpor

*We know that in any language some words get put on the "back burner" whilst others become extinct, only to be seen in dictionaries of old. Their function continues to be performed by other words that are already in the language or by words borrowed from another language. In one respect, for Persian scholars, Urdu would be good point to start to look for their words that have been forced onto the "back burner" or forced out altogether. 

jald (soon/quickly/at once) would be one such word for them. I think it is rarely, if ever, used in Modern Persian where "shitaab" is more common. Could readers please come up with words which seem to be on their way out or have already left!
*


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## Faylasoof

QURESHPOR said:


> *We know that in any language some words get put on the "back burner" whilst others become extinct, only to be seen in dictionaries of old. Their function continues to be performed by other words that are already in the language or by words borrowed from another language. In one respect, for Persian scholars, Urdu would be good point to start to look for their words that have been forced onto the "back burner" or forced out altogether.
> 
> jald (soon/quickly/at once) would be one such word for them. I think it is rarely, if ever, used in Modern Persian where "shitaab" is more common. Could readers please come up with words which seem to be on their way out or have already left!
> *


  QP SaHeb, 
_I think we'll end with a multi-topic thread! __So why don't we let us just stick to *jald* and its synonyms instead_. We may not only include Persian here but other IILs too. 

Well, for _*jald*_ / _*shitaab*_ we also have _*tond*_, _*3ajaleh*_. These are still used often but not sure of the relative frequencies of all these!
[As for جلد _*jald*_ = nimble / quick, we can also be read it as_* jild*_ which has a totally different meaning! But let us not discuss this here.]


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## BP.

Adding to F sahib's list - quick could be _sarii3 _too, e.g. some people reply to threads with _sir3at_, some don't.


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## Qureshpor

BelligerentPacifist said:


> Adding to F sahib's list - quick could be _sarii3 _too, e.g. some people reply to threads with _sir3at_, some don't.



*De you mean my kind of "sur'at"?!*


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## BP.

Affirmative.


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## Qureshpor

Faylasoof said:


> QP SaHeb,
> _I think we'll end with a multi-topic thread! __So why don't we let us just stick to *jald* and its synonyms instead_. We may not only include Persian here but other IILs too.
> 
> Well, for _*jald*_ / _*shitaab*_ we also have _*tond*_, _*3ajaleh*_. These are still used often but not sure of the relative frequencies of all these!
> [As for جلد _*jald*_ = nimble / quick, we can also be read it as_* jild*_ which has a totally different meaning! But let us not discuss this here.]



*Actually my aim behind starting this thread essentially was to confirm the origins of "jald" and to state that it seems extremely rare in Modern Persian speech and writing. But we are still keeping it safe along with other Persian words  that are now not so common in Modern Persian!!*


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## Qureshpor

In the Persian "zuud-tar" thread, I had the following exchange with our Persian speaking friends.



QURESHPOR said:


> Just on a slight tangent, if you forgive me. Is "jald" or "jaldii" ever used in Persian speech or writing to convey a meaning similar to "zuud"?





Treaty said:


> Yes. It's used by some people in informal speech. Meaning "quick(ly)", it's normally used only for humans and animals.





darush said:


> Jaldii; when* jaldii *is used? to go and do, usually smartly, something and come back/return *quickly.*
> Jald: a pigeon that always flies back to its home.



Here are examples of "jaldii" and "jald" from Classical Persian. I think I am pretty sure that in the Khaqani quote, the meaning for "jaldii kun" is "Hurry up". What are the meanings of "jald" in the Farukhi quote?

ای برادر بیا و جلدی کن
می زن چو آ ن چنان بینی 
خاقانی 

برفت بر دم آن روشنی و از پی آن 
به جستجوی سواران جلد بفرستاد 
به جهد و حیله در آن روشنی همی پرسید 
سوار جلد بر اسب جوان تازی داد 
فرخی 

Moderators: Could you please add Persian to the title. Thanks.


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## aisha93

Hello, I want to make sure please: is (jaldi karo) an imperative sentence? and does it mean: hurry up, make haste...etc.


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## Qureshpor

aisha93 said:


> Hello, I want to make sure please: is (jaldi karo) an imperative sentence? and does it mean: hurry up, make haste...etc.


Yes it is and it does.


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## Aryamp

I don't think "jaldi" would be a good example for words which have been put on the 'back burner'  because in fact it's still used in Iran and it never has been a very 'common word' anyway . It's an arabic word by origin and in persian literature the examples for its usage are not 'that many' compared to its equivalents.

For me it's always interesting to study the similarity between persian and other closely related languages like urdu, and indeed certain words sometimes lose their popularity or  their meaning gets altered through time while those qualities are still retained in some other language where they originally entered as a loan word.


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## Qureshpor

^Thank you aaqaa-ye-Aryamp for your response. What meaning does "jald" have in Farukhi's lines? Is he implying "haste" or "pigeons"?


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## Aryamp

QURESHPOR said:


> ^Thank you aaqaa-ye-Aryamp for your response. What meaning does "jald" have in Farukhi's lines? Is he implying "haste" or "pigeons"?



"jald" does not mean pigeon , the word for pigeon is "کفتر or کبوتر "


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## Qureshpor

Aryamp said:


> "jald" does not mean pigeon , the word for pigeon is "کفتر or کبوتر "


Thank you. I think my confusion has arisen out of aaqaa-ye-darush's reply to my query (see post 7). 


darush said:


> Jaldii; when* jaldii *is used? to go and do, usually smartly, something and come back/return *quickly.*
> Jald: a pigeon that always flies back to its home.


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## Qureshpor

Aryamp said:


> I don't think "jaldi" would be a good example for words which have been put on the 'back burner'  because in fact it's still used in Iran and it never has been a very 'common word' anyway . It's an Arabic word by origin and in Persian literature the examples for its usage are not 'that many' compared to its equivalents.


You make a valid point. My father'side of the family in the Punjab use "jaldii" both in Punjabi and Urdu, yet my mother's side of the family only 20+ miles away use "shitaabii". I don't know how this has happened but in their Punjabi speech, there is a much higher frequency of Persian words, "shitaabii" being only one of many. Let me provide a few examples that I can think off the top of my head.

baadyah (a pot)

goristaan (a grave yard)

qaashuq (a spoon)

piyaalah (a cup)

jaadah (road)

baaNg (azaan)


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## Aryamp

I have an 'urdu for travelers' book , and it's a delight to read it because it's really amusing to find so many similar words and also some differences in a way a certain word is used.

In my book 'jaldi karo' is used to mean 'make haste'  or 'عجله کن '   so certainly this word has much more prevalence in Urdu / punjabi than in Persian. But then I can find so many other examples.  

One thing I don't know is how "jald" has become to mean 'domesticated'  for birds like a pigeon. It maybe a subculture thing, I can make up a scenario that in Iran most pigeon fanciers happen to be kind of "luti" (that's a word I don't know how to translate but it's like a kind of people who would be a mixture of Robin Hood and Don quixote lol) and for them 'jald' is the characteristic of a good disciple, who is quick in doing the orders and always coming back in time.  So a good pigeon always comes back to its owner in time.  That's just my hypothesis.

It really requires a separate thread of its own , but here are a few interesting comparsions between expressions (that's if my urdu book is accurate ) : 

Urdu   <>  Persian  
---------------------
mara dost <>  azizam  →   dost in persian means friend but here it seems to indicate dearness in urdu
Garmi ka mosem <> Tabestan →   I can totally understand the urdu here which would be "moseme garma" in persian but "mosem" is a word not used normally by people in daily conversation instead "fasl" is much more frequently used

neyla <> abi    → nili is also used in persian but 'abi' is more general term where as nili is a specific kind of blue
wabaste <> bastegan→     wabaste used in Farsi would mean dependant or related 
sazande <> navazande →     this is interesting , saz indeed means instrument but  it also is the present stem of "sakhtan = to build"  so sazande in persian would mean builder where az navakhtan means to play an instrument so we say navazande for someone who plays an instrument

hedayatkar <> kargardan →    hedayatkar makes perfect sense in persian but we use kargardan to mean director.

Well I could give so many more examples but I guess that's enough of getting off topic in this thread


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## marrish

Aryamp said:


> Urdu   <>  Persian
> ---------------------
> mara dost <>  azizam  →   dost in persian means friend but here it seems to indicate dearness in urdu
> Garmi ka mosem <> Tabestan →   I can totally understand the urdu here which would be "moseme garma" in persian but "mosem" is a word not used normally by people in daily conversation instead "fasl" is much more frequently used
> 
> neyla <> abi    → nili is also used in persian but 'abi' is more general term where as nili is a specific kind of blue
> wabaste <> bastegan→     wabaste used in Farsi would mean dependant or related
> sazande <> navazande →     this is interesting , saz indeed means instrument but  it also is the present stem of "sakhtan = to build"  so sazande in persian would mean builder where az navakhtan means to play an instrument so we say navazande for someone who plays an instrument
> 
> hedayatkar <> kargardan →    hedayatkar makes perfect sense in persian but we use kargardan to mean director.
> 
> Well I could give so many more examples but I guess that's enough of getting off topic in this thread


Very interesting indeed. There are scores of words in Urdu which appear to have gone out of fashion in the Persian of nowadays, it's certainly justified by the fact that they've been entering Urdu over a period of several centuries via various canals. It is also unavoidable that some of the words begun to be used within a different context and went on to take new meanings. In Urdu ''_jald, jaldii_'' is a very common word while ''_zuud, zuudii_'' forms part of the poetic vocabulary.

The comparisons are very nice: _dost_ in Urdu means just friend as well; dearness is not necessarily understood so I'd say _meraa dost=dost-e-man.
garmii kaa mausam/mausim=tabistaan, mausam-e-garmaa, _also used as such in Urdu, quite frequently in fact. _fasl_ is there as well but it has taken on the meaning of a harvest or crop as well and is thus used more in poetry!
_niilaa_. In Urdu, _aabii_ is a specific kind of blue (very light) as opposed to _niilaa_ (rather dark blue).
_waabastah_ means exactly the same in Urdu and Persian.
In Urdu as well we say eg. _tablah-navaaz_ (a tabla player), _sitaar-navaaz_ (a sitaar player) but a _sitaar-saaz_ would be the person who constructs/manufactures this musical instrument.


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