# how safe is living in the US?



## medeterian

I am wondering how is the dailly life in U.S. A fiend of mine told me someone lives in NY has to pay attantion for safety. He said that there is really high crime rate and someone is in danger after it gets dark outside. Can you tell me how much of that is real  Do people try to protect themselves and be armed? What they do in addition for protection?


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## Keikikoka

I would say that only the ones who live in the slums of larger cities tend to have to worry about crime on a daily basis. The majority of suburbanites don't have to really worry that much about major criminal activity [although it does happen.]


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## ceci '79

I think that by watching American TV you'd get the impression that almost everybody gets abducted and/or raped by a psycho while walking down the street, shopping at the local mall or simply sitting in the backyard. Then they kill you rather gruesomely and trow your corpse in a landfill / trash dump.  

I have often been wondering whether this is due to actually higher crime rates or to a greater fascination of the American media with this sort of crimes... maybe in the States these crimes receive a more intensive coverage... I wonder why?!

What do you think / know?


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## KateNicole

I have lived and in worked in some very rough neighborhoods that most people would call "ghetto", and I did not have a problem with violence ever. I think the average, law-abiding citizen who doesn't use or sell drugs or go looking for trouble does not have to be too paranoid about violence, even in a bad neighborhood. When I lived in a high-crime area, the only thing law-abiding people seemed to worry about was getting their car stereo stolen, which did happen every now and then.


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## ceci '79

Thank you. When my boyfriend was in San Antonio, TX he got his car stereo stolen as well.

Another curiosity I have always had... how safe and advisable is it to ride a bike (a bicycle, not a motorbike) in the U.S.?


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## KateNicole

Do you mean how safe is it in terms of getting assaulted while riding the bike??


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## ceci '79

KateNicole said:
			
		

> Do you mean how safe is it in terms of getting assaulted while riding the bike??


 
No, more in terms of getting hit by a car or another motorized vehicle, or of motorists losing their temper and honking at you, scaring you half to death and making you feel unwanted as a biker. I am asking this question because I heard from my Italian boyfriend (who visited the U.S. once - Texas and Florida) that bikes are often confined to sidewalks and people tend to wear helmets on a regular basis, and sometimes even knee and elbow pads (and not just when riding on terrain). He also told me that American drivers are not "very fond" (euphemism) of bikes.

I wanted to know the insider version of it because I love riding my bike and I might spend a year in Utah (in 2008). So I was very curious about road safety for bikes.

[EDIT] I hope this road safety question is not too off-topic. It's about everyday life and safety in the U.S. and about protecting oneself against dangers, so I though I'd ask it.


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## cuchuflete

Every person living in the US can provide anecdotal evidence, and most will end up saying that there is more crime in poor neighborhoods in cities than elsewhere.  Most citizens are not subject to violent crime. The poorest people in the poorest areas are much more likely to be robbed or assaulted than the average citizen.  I suspect that's true throughout much of the world.

For comparative statistics, a search engine will be a better mechanism than this thread.  I live in a sparsely populated area.  In the past four years, I am aware of one armed robbery in my country, which includes about 34,000 people spread throughout 456 square miles [about 1180 square kilometers].


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## ceci '79

Personally, I was more curious about whether Americans and U.S. residents feel safe, rather than about pure stats.

In other words: Do _you_ feel safe walking in the city / riding a bike, etc.?

My idea is that if most locals feel safe, then I should feel safe as well.

But the thread is not mine, so...


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## cuchuflete

Hi Ceci,
I have lived in many large cities in the US, and have almost always felt safe in all but the poorest neighborhoods at night.
I was a poor student, living in a 'bad' neighborhood in Baltimore, and I felt safe walking alone at night.  (But...maybe I shouldn't have!)

I avoid riding my bike on highways and in large cities, but otherwise it's not an issue. The biggest superhighways do not allow bicycles.


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## ceci '79

Thank you very much!  I feel much less worried, now!



			
				cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Hi Ceci,
> I have lived in many large cities in the US, and have almost always felt safe in all but the poorest neighborhoods at night.
> I was a poor student, living in a 'bad' neighborhood in Baltimore, and I felt safe walking alone at night. (But...maybe I shouldn't have!)  _Luckily you are still here among us!_
> 
> I avoid riding my bike on highways and in large cities, but otherwise it's not an issue. The biggest superhighways do not allow bicycles. _A wise, logical rule. The same applies to the Italian Autostrade (toll highways)._


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## DesertCat

Personally, I feel safe most of the time.  But, I live in a nice area.  There are areas of Phoenix that I don't go to after dark because of gang problems and such. 

As far as riding a bike, Ceci, it probably depends on the city.  Some areas of the country are more bike friendly than others.  Phoenix is decidedly biker unfriendly and pedestrian unfriendly as well.  When I walk, I am always careful to make eye contact with the driver before crossing the street even when I have the right-a-way.    Sometimes, when roads are widened they'll add bike lanes but many areas don't have them. Most bikers wear helmets because of various safety campaigns over the last 20 years or so.  When I grew up nobody wore helmets.


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## ceci '79

DesertCat said:
			
		

> As far as riding a bike, Ceci, it probably depends on the city. Some areas of the country are more bike friendly than others. _I wonder how Salt Lake City could be... They do have extensive public transportation: I hope it's a good sign! _Phoenix is decidedly biker unfriendly and pedestrian unfriendly as well. When I walk, I am always careful to make eye contact with the driver before crossing the street even when I have the right-a-way. _Oh, I'm used to that. I would say that zebra crossings in Italy are a "suggestion", rather than an obbligation.  _Sometimes, when roads are widened they'll add bike lanes but many areas don't have them. _If they don't have them, is it ok to bike on the street (of course keeping on the shoulder or as close to the edge as possible), or would cars honk at me and perhaps risk hitting me?_ Most bikers wear helmets because of various safety campaigns over the last 20 years or so. When I grew up nobody wore helmets. _Thank you. Some European countries are becomnig big in helmets as well, but not Italy or Germany, for example. I think it still is a relatively new campaign, here._


 
All in all, the U.S. seem equal to or slightly safer than the area of northern Italy where I live. As a woman, in Italy I would be extremely careful to walk alone after 9 pm, i.e. after the stores close. I would not walk alone in the countryside or in industrial areas either (in some industrial areas I would be careful even during daytime).


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## tvdxer

General safety - Really depends on where you are.  No, you aren't likely to be murdered / assaulted anywhere as long as you abstain from involvement in criminal activities, but random crimes do occur and there are certain places to avoid, especially in large cities.  In most areas, however, you will generally be safe, but you'll still need to lock your house door at night.

Cycling / Walking - Also varies widely.  I bike nearly every day during the warm months and very rarely do I have any problems.  Most of my cycling is on rural roads that are either low-traffic or have shoulders for cyclists, and also city streets, but I do occasionally bike on highways / roads (NOT interstates or freeways, where it is illegal to ride your bike) that were unfortunately designed for cars , and I need to be extra careful there.  But for the most part I have found cycling here to be a safe endeavour.  Apparently, though, other parts of the country are not as cyclist-friendly.

As for walking, most streets in older and properly-designed newer U.S. cities and neighborhoods have sidewalks.  Busy roads usually have controlled crosswalks, and most drivers in my experience take care that they do not plow into a pedestrian.  I have had a few close calls crossing the busy street next to our store, however.  But I would not be discouraged from walking.  Again, though, this varies place-to-place.  Some communities are likely to be very friendly to pedestrians, while others almost require that you be in a car.

You and others will probably be very interested in this list...somebody managed to make a ranking of the safest and most dangerous metropolitan areas for pedestrians:

http://www.usa.safekids.org/content_documents/national_release_-_SKWTW_2005.pdf

_Bicycling_ magazine did a similar thing for cyclists.


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## medeterian

Hi. I am sorry for not replying for a day time. Thank you for the replies. They are descriptive. And it is nice to see the bike riding extension here in the same topic because I like riding too. 




			
				ceci '79 said:
			
		

> Personally, I was more curious about whether Americans and U.S. residents feel safe, rather than about pure stats.
> 
> In other words: Do _you_ feel safe walking in the city / riding a bike, etc.?
> 
> My idea is that if most locals feel safe, then I should feel safe as well.
> 
> But the thread is not mine, so...



You are right ceci. I started this thread in order to learn what people living in US feel, not the stats nor TV news are. In fact there is a posibility that I stay in US for bussiness purposes in the future so I want to learn about the essencials.

I understand that if you know what to do (like keeping your back door locked) and/or you dont participate in illegal jobs, then you dont have to worry about crime. 

However, I wonder what does "you dont have to worry about" means. I am looking for what is acceptable or normal for people livin in US. Do regular people carry guns or knives with them in daily life for protection. Do youngsters go to school on foot by themselves? ... Forexample I heard that Central Park in NY is closed at 20:00. Can you share your expressions?


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## maxiogee

medeterian said:
			
		

> Forexample I heard that Central Park in NY is closed at 20:00. Can you share your expressions?



I don't know what you infer from that, but public parks in Dublin close around the same time in Summer. In other times they close earlier in the evenings going to as early as 16:30 in Winter.
This is more to do with keeping people out of the park at night and less to do with public safety.


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## tvdxer

medeterian said:
			
		

> Hi. I am sorry for not replying for a day time. Thank you for the replies. They are descriptive. And it is nice to see the bike riding extension here in the same topic because I like riding too.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You are right ceci. I started this thread in order to learn what people living in US feel, not the stats nor TV news are. In fact there is a posibility that I stay in US for bussiness purposes in the future so I want to learn about the essencials.
> 
> I understand that if you know what to do (like keeping your back door locked) and/or you dont participate in illegal jobs, then you dont have to worry about crime.
> 
> However, I wonder what does "you dont have to worry about" means. I am looking for what is acceptable or normal for people livin in US. Do regular people carry guns or knives with them in daily life for protection. Do youngsters go to school on foot by themselves? ... Forexample I heard that Central Park in NY is closed at 20:00. Can you share your expressions?



No, most people do not carry guns nor knives with them.  It's just not necessary.  Most who do indeed walk armed with a gun are either police or do so for a special reason (e.g. they are a bailbondsman or they received death threats and applied for a permit to carry the gun).  Few carry knives, although you might see some carrying them hidden in the most dangerous inner-city areas.  It seems like some women in those areas carry "mace" with them.

As for kids going to school on foot...this was once very common, around the 1950's and before.  However, media hysteria about children being kidnapped combined with the simple fact that many children live too far from school or must cross highways and other busy roads to get there has made walking to school much rarer.  For example, school consolidation (replacing multiple small, neighborhood primary schools with one big large one) has been an unfortunate trend in recent decades.  However, there is a concerted effort to reverse those negative changes, which should help reduce childhood obesity.


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## medeterian

tvdxer said:
			
		

> As for kids going to school on foot...this was once very common, around the 1950's and before. However, media hysteria about children being kidnapped combined with the simple fact that many children live too far from school or must cross highways and other busy roads to get there has made walking to school much rarer. For example, school consolidation (replacing multiple small, neighborhood primary schools with one big large one) has been an unfortunate trend in recent decades. However, there is a concerted effort to reverse those negative changes, which should help reduce childhood obesity.



Walking to school was (and still is) one of my favorits about young ages. I have never liked the idea that parents bringing children to school (at least after 5.th degree). I am not saying that it is not necessary for children to be brought by their parents. If the conditions are acceptable, it is really beneficial and enjoying walking school for children. I am lucky that I was able to walk to school.


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## medeterian

maxiogee said:
			
		

> I don't know what you infer from that, but public parks in Dublin close around the same time in Summer. In other times they close earlier in the evenings going to as early as 16:30 in Winter.
> This is more to do with keeping people out of the park at night and less to do with public safety.



I am not used to living in US or Ireland. I dont know what the public view of the subject there. I am exactly looking for the answers like that as yours. In Türkiye, parks dont get closed forexample. Even in İstanbul, the city which has the highest crime rate in Türkiye I think, some people hang arround in parks on evening. In other cities the number goes up.


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## cuchuflete

Hi Medeterian,

In my current residence, I rarely look the door when I leave the house.  The same is true of my neighbors.  I also don't lock my car.  It is common here for a person on his or her way to work on a cold winter morning to leave their car or truck running, with the keys in the ignition, while they run into a shop.   This is a rural community.  

Cities are quite the opposite.


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## mjscott

In my city, public parks by the waterfront are closed at 10:00 p.m. If something were to happen to someone, there are few around who could help or would know about it. Also, the skunks, possums and porcupines take over when the sun goes down.

Once, while in Long Beach, CA, my family and I stopped at a public beach to watch the sun go down. While it was daylight, everything was fine. As soon as it got dark, however, I "sensed" that something wasn't right. The undesirables of society came out, and all of a sudden I didn't feel that my family was safe.

By the way, I live in an area of about 150,000. I have the bad habit of _not_ locking my door at night, but there are areas in the vicinity where I know I would not feel safe doing so. I think most people can sense when they are safe and not safe. Some times it only take a matter of getting used to your neighborhood before you feel safe.

Although lots of TV and movies would show otherwise, most people in the US do not carry around knives and/or guns. If I felt so unsafe that I needed to carry a gun, I would be sure, _beyond the shadow of a doubt_, that if I needed to use it that I would be so well-trained that 1) it would only be used if my own life was in danger; and 2) I would not make the mistake of allowing someone else to gain control of the gun!

So far, in my long long life, I have never felt the need to carry either.


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## jinti

medeterian said:
			
		

> I am looking for what is acceptable or normal for people livin in US. Do regular people carry guns or knives with them in daily life for protection. Do youngsters go to school on foot by themselves? ... Forexample I heard that Central Park in NY is closed at 20:00. Can you share your expressions?


 
I'm a single woman who has lived in NY for about 15 years. I have often worked -- and sometimes lived -- in "bad neighborhoods", as for years I taught literacy and ESL/literacy (literacy for non-English-speaking adults who don't read or write any language) and those jobs don't tend to be in the most beautiful places or pay the most.

I don't carry any weapons (well, I've had pepper spray for years, but never used it), and I don't know anyone who carries a gun, nor would I really want to be around anyone like that. I do know a number of people who carry boxcutters-- quite a few of my students did at one school -- but that's about it. Despite where I've worked, some of the neighborhoods I've lived in (which haven't been the best or the worst), and the late hours I've worked and gone to night school, I've had very few problems. However, I also don't tempt fate....

Yes, kids take themselves to school here on foot and on the public buses and subways. Well, an adult usually accompanies the little ones, but later on, the older kids go alone.

Central Park closes at 1 AM. Not that you can't enter after that -- it's a massive park, and who would notice? -- but I can't think of any good reason you'd want to go there in the wee hours of the morning. Most people stay out of there after dark, unless they're with a group. There are lots more interesting places than a city park at 1 in the morning anyway.....


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## tvdxer

medeterian said:
			
		

> Walking to school was (and still is) one of my favorits about young ages. I have never liked the idea that parents bringing children to school (at least after 5.th degree). I am not saying that it is not necessary for children to be brought by their parents. If the conditions are acceptable, it is really beneficial and enjoying walking school for children. I am lucky that I was able to walk to school.



The majority of U.S. parents do not do a "school run".  Rather, their children ride school buses.

I agree that it is beneficial.  It's great exercise.  My dad walked to school until he got a driver's license (age 16), even after breaking his leg (his parents refused to drive him!).


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## medeterian

cuchuflete said:
			
		

> Hi Medeterian,
> 
> In my current residence, I rarely look the door when I leave the house. The same is true of my neighbors. I also don't lock my car. It is common here for a person on his or her way to work on a cold winter morning to leave their car or truck running, with the keys in the ignition, while they run into a shop. This is a rural community.
> 
> Cities are quite the opposite.




It seems to me that your current residence is much like my hometown and the cities are like the big cities here. There are many similarities I think.


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## ElaineG

I have lived in NYC for most of my life, and for the last 15-20 years (the city was much scarier when I was a kid in the 70s) have felt completely safe, walking, taking the subway home late at night, etc. etc.  I live in nice neighborhoods and I work in midtown, so I'm not off the map late at night, but as a woman, I feel safer here than almost anywhere I've ever been -- because I know the rules, know what can be danger signs, and know how to handle myself.  A woman alone is not a strange sight, or a target, which is not always the case in a lot of the world.

By way of contrast, I remember my first trip to Europe around 15 years ago -- my boyfriend and I were walking through the deserted streets of a French Alpine village at around 2:00 in the morning.  My boyfriend kept telling me to walk in the middle of the street -- as assailants come from the sides apparently, and you have more reaction time in the middle.  I said he was crazy that we were totally 100% safe.  But as a life-long NYer, it was the quiet and desertedness of that town scared him.

Here I'm never alone, and never out of shouting distance of large groups of people.  That's what then comes to feel safe.

As for biking, I'm an avid cyclist.  I wear a helmet at all times, but do in Europe too -- I've seen too many accidents, including a near-fatal one in Italy.  NYC is making an effort with bike lanes and greenways, but we have a long way to go.  Traffic can be stressful, but around my neighborhood in Brooklyn there are always plenty of great places to bike.


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## touir

medeterian said:
			
		

> I am wondering how is the dailly life in U.S. A fiend of mine told me someone lives in NY has to pay attantion for safety. He said that there is really high crime rate and someone is in danger after it gets dark outside.


The USA has the highest rate of homocide in the developed world, as well the world's highest incarceration rate.
Personally, I have been more worried about my personal safety there than almost any place I have been to in Europe and Asia.
I spent a week in Miami a couple of years ago and (no offense to anyone who might live there but) it's without doubt the most dangerous and crime-ridden place I have ever been to.
It seems that most Americans who have commented in this thread think that their country is pretty safe compared to those "there be dragons here" countries (i.e. the rest of the world), but from my own personal experience (as a foreigner in the United States) it's definitely not the case.


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## GenJen54

As has already been mentioned, much depends upon where you live. 

Obviously, it is more easy to find crime-ridden areas in more populous cities. I lived in Miami/Fort Lauderdale several years ago. I never felt completely "safe," but then I also never completely "fit in" with the So. Fla. lifestyle, (another topic altogether.) 

I have also lived in Dallas, Texas, and felt perfectly safe there. I also felt perfectly safe in New York City while travelling there with a female companion - even walking around Mid-Town at 2 in the morning.

My current city (where I grew up) is, for the most part, very safe, except for pockets which tend to be impoverished. In short, I simply don't go to those areas of town.

When I lived in France, I was the victim of a street mugging in Clermont-Ferrand. When I travelled to Paris I saw a man pick-pocketed. I'm sure everyone here can come up with their own crime story in whatever country they live in, or have visited.

As has been noted, however, general precautions should be taken no matter where you go. 

What is most important for anyone is they get to know the "lay of the land" of the area in which they'll be travelling.


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## wsitiplaju

I used to work in a restaurant in Central Park, and we would walk in pairs or small groups across the park at 10 or 11 at night to the subway.  It never FELT particularly dangerous, but of course one pays attention to notice if anyone is approaching, what they look like, how they are walking, etc.  
I am glad to see that most people responding to this list say they feel safe.  There is also a lot of paranoia.  I remember a white lady who came into that same restaurant just after dark one day, all out of breath and frightened.  She said some people had tried to mug her, but she ran away.  When the police came, they asked exactly what happened.  She insisted that she had almost been mugged, and the police insisted on knowing the details.  It turned out that a couple young black men had asked her for the time.  She could not provide further evidence of the attempted mugging besides the fact that they were young, black, and male.  
In the rural southwest it's pretty common to carry guns or have them around the house.  One sees signs at gas stations reading "you don't need your gun in here, leave it in the car."


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## danielfranco

The question of an armed general population is also a regional issue. I honestly do not think people in small towns in Maine walk around as heavily armed as people in small towns in Texas. Perhaps it also has to do with local laws about concealed weapons and things like that...
I think that an entertaining point of view about how afraid and paranoid Americans are compared to other peoples (for instance, the Canadians) was the film "Bowling for Columbine". I don't know, but personally, I think I am a little bit more paranoid than the average Dallas-ite because I grew up in Mexico City. Spending your life among twenty-plus million people living all together in the same place can make anyone paranoid, I guess...


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## medeterian

danielfranco said:
			
		

> I think that an entertaining point of view about how afraid and paranoid Americans are compared to other peoples (for instance, the Canadians) was the film "Bowling for Columbine". I don't know, but personally, I think I am a little bit more paranoid than the average Dallas-ite because I grew up in Mexico City. Spending your life among twenty-plus million people living all together in the same place can make anyone paranoid, I guess...



 "Bowling for Columbine" is a masterpiece I think, it is so funny. Actually I am impressed of my thoughts more than the other action films. The film was comparing the views of the two sides successfully. I know the others are exaggerated. Actually the most entertaining part to me is in which Micheal Moore enters the Canadian houses without even knocking the door and people dont react by any means. And ofcourse the part he gets a pump shoutgun in return for a registeration to a bank or something like that


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## badgrammar

Listen, I'm going to have to say that I don't think that I feel very safe in the States in terms of physical aggression and assault.   My childhood in Austin, Texas is filled with memories of hearing about horrible acts of violence on the news - women abducted, tortured, raped, dismembered; man thrown in trunk of car, car pushed into the lake; women stalked, beaten, sodomized and left for dead on the hike and bike trail...  It's a never ending procession of these kinds of stories, which, far from being sensationalist, are true.  Guy drives into a restaurant and shoots and kills 20; depressed Mom drowns her 5 kids in the bathtub...  Our elderly neighbors came home one day to find some strung-out burglars in their house.  My Dad heard the screams coming from down the hill, called the cops.  By the time they arrived, the woman was dead and the man was unconscious with serious head wounds.

And then, I moved to downtown Baltimore...  Love the crabcakes and Fells Point, but there's nothing reassuring about the sounds of gunshots at night (which elicit the cops to fly their helicopters low over rooftops with spotlights all night).  Carjacking was a constant.  My neighbor was held up at gunpoint one night on my stoop as he was ringing my doorbell...  I used to be leary of sitting in my street-front living room, because stray bullets flying through windows was another charming and perrenial phenomenon.  Most of the stores there had a buzzer-system on the door.  At one local liquor store, you bought your beer through a sort of bullet-proof barrier from counter to ceiling, slipping your money into a turn-style, and then waiting for your merchandise to come back through that same turnstyle.

Do I feel safe in the US?  Nope, not at all.  I should look up some statistics, but I am quite sure it is among the countries with the highest percentage of criminal-related assaults and fatalities anywhere in the "Western" world.

Just my two cents...


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## badgrammar

This link has a number of charts showing assault rates in 16 countries.  The US is at the bottom of the page.  Speaks pretty much for itself...

http://crookedtimber.org/2005/03/24/violent-societies/


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## DesertCat

Ceci, I just wanted to respond to one of your questions.

Originally Posted by *DesertCat*
_  Sometimes, when roads are widened they'll add bike lanes but many areas don't have them. If they don't have them, is it ok to bike on the street (of course keeping on the shoulder or as close to the edge as possible), or would cars honk at me and perhaps risk hitting me? Yes, it's perfectly fine to ride on the road near the shoulder.  Most drivers will go a bit to the left to give you extra space.  But, it can be risky if the roads are narrow and/or the traffic is heavy.  In theory, people on bikes are supposed to follow the same traffic laws as cars.  Meaning stop at red lights, ride with the flow of traffic and so on.  
_



			
				ceci '79 said:
			
		

> All in all, the U.S. seem equal to or slightly safer than the area of northern Italy where I live. As a woman, in Italy I would be extremely careful to walk alone after 9 pm, i.e. after the stores close. I would not walk alone in the countryside or in industrial areas either (in some industrial areas I would be careful even during daytime).


 
I was surprised by this statement. I was under the impression that there is very little violent crime in Italy and it's perfectly safe to walk around by yourself at night.  But, perhaps that varies by city.


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## djchak

For ceci: If you are going to Utah, I wouldn't worry. They are pretty laid back out there. Best rice krispie treats ever. 

Honestly, I feel safe in most of Chicago, and the outlying suburbs. There are some ghettoes and projects on the south and west sides, and honestly those you need to be careful in. But the bottom line is big cities have the ghettoes, and other rural trailer park places in the south and western states have the meth heads. But it's in concentrated areas (crime and poverty).

So, for the most part, living in the US is safe. But living in those areas descibed above isn't.

The US is a country where you will see some extremes and paradoxes compares to the rest of the world.

touir:

"compared to those "there be dragons here" countries (i.e. the rest of the world)"

Is this a joke, or do you actually think that americans would say "there be dragons here" on any other countries?


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## maxiogee

djchak said:
			
		

> "compared to those "there be dragons here" countries (i.e. the rest of the world)"
> 
> Is this a joke, or do you actually think that americans would say "there be dragons here" on any other countries?



It's a not-so-joking reference to the ignorance of strange places.
In the old days map-makers would illustrate the riches of exotic lands with drawings of what treasures they contained. This was also done for the terrors these places held Sometimes they would write "Here be swamps" or something similar instead if they could not sum up the terrors/delights in a neat wee drawing. 
When map-makers didn't know what lay immediately behind the shores of strange lands they were known to depict fabulous monsters on their maps, or to just write the words "Here be Dragons".

In using that reference nowadays touir implies that some people have a serious lack of factual knowledge about certain parts of the world.


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## touir

maxiogee said:
			
		

> It's a not-so-joking reference to the ignorance of strange places.
> In the old days map-makers would illustrate the riches of exotic lands with drawings of what treasures they contained. This was also done for the terrors these places held Sometimes they would write "Here be swamps" or something similar instead if they could not sum up the terrors/delights in a neat wee drawing.
> When map-makers didn't know what lay immediately behind the shores of strange lands they were known to depict fabulous monsters on their maps, or to just write the words "Here be Dragons".
> 
> In using that reference nowadays touir implies that some people have a serious lack of factual knowledge about certain parts of the world.


Thanks, maxi, you have summed it up perfectly!


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## djchak

maxiogee said:
			
		

> It's a not-so-joking reference to the ignorance of strange places.
> In the old days map-makers would illustrate the riches of exotic lands with drawings of what treasures they contained. This was also done for the terrors these places held Sometimes they would write "Here be swamps" or something similar instead if they could not sum up the terrors/delights in a neat wee drawing.
> When map-makers didn't know what lay immediately behind the shores of strange lands they were known to depict fabulous monsters on their maps, or to just write the words "Here be Dragons".
> 
> In using that reference nowadays touir implies that some people have a serious lack of factual knowledge about certain parts of the world.



Wow, I never heard that phrase before. Intresting. Thanks for explaining, makes a lot more sense now.


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## djchak

touir said:
			
		

> Thanks, maxi, you have summed it up perfectly!



"some people have a serious lack of factual knowledge about certain parts of the world."

To be fair, almost all people lack factual knowledge about certain parts of the world. That's what should make learning fun. It would really stink to "know it all" from the time you were 16 ....


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## ceci '79

Thank you very much, tvdxer, cuchuflete, ElaineG, DesertCat and djchack (and all the others) for your excellent and interesting replies. I feel much better, now. 

DesertCat,



			
				DesertCat said:
			
		

> I was surprised by this statement. I was under the impression that there is very little violent crime in Italy and it's perfectly safe to walk around by yourself at night. But, perhaps that varies by city.


 
I live in a medium-sized town near Modena and even here I wouldn't walk alone at night after the stores have shut down (at approx. 9 PM). 

My uncle thought I was paranoid and last year he got stabbed by two thieves smack in the middle of the city centre (the "nicest" and most expensive neighbourhood in town). He almost got killed. Even this nice and well-lit square becomes deserted late at night. The square is not very dangerous per se, but the streets around it are pitch-dark and very solitary.

In my area (the Modena area) there is nobody outside after 10 PM (cops included - we only have one partol car for a large county), and everybody drives anyway.


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## tvdxer

ceci '79 said:
			
		

> Thank you very much, tvdxer, cuchuflete, ElaineG, DesertCat and djchack (and all the others) for your excellent and interesting replies. I feel much better, now.
> 
> DesertCat,
> 
> 
> 
> I live in a medium-sized town near Modena and even here I wouldn't walk alone at night after the stores have shut down (at approx. 9 PM).
> 
> My uncle thought I was paranoid and last year he got stabbed by two thieves smack in the middle of the city centre (the "nicest" and most expensive neighbourhood in town). He almost got killed. Even this nice and well-lit square becomes deserted late at night. The square is not very dangerous per se, but the streets around it are pitch-dark and very solitary.
> 
> In my area (the Modena area) there is nobody outside after 10 PM (cops included - we only have one partol car for a large county), and everybody drives anyway.



I don't think the commercial districts of most U.S. cities are all too different in this regard.  Many do indeed become shady, possibly dangerous, after the stores and nightlife have shut down.  But I wouldn't expect you to go walking in these areas after hours.


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## ceci '79

tvdxer said:
			
		

> I don't think the commercial districts of most U.S. cities are all too different in this regard. Many do indeed become shady, possibly dangerous, after the stores and nightlife have shut down. But I wouldn't expect you to go walking in these areas after hours.


 
Yes, I agree. I just brough it up to conclude that most parts of the States are probably not more dagerous than the area where I live in Italy.


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## djchak

I dunno. seems like we keep coming back to the same conclusion.

Most of the US is safe, except the poorer areas. It's directly linked to income.


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