# Why тяжёлыми in "были тяжёлыми"



## wonlon

Please read text:

***
Для строительства этого города каждый год собирали со всей России 30 тысяч крестьян, условия работы были очень тяжёлыми, многие крестьяне умирали.
(*the город refers to Санкт-Петербу́рг)
***

I would like to know what is at work here. Why is тяжёлыми in instrumental case?


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## morzh

Because the question it answers is "Условия были КАКИМИ?"
КАКИМИ- ТЯЖёЛЫМИ.
Hence - instrumental.

"Быть" with quality or role  it describes requires "творительный" (каким/кем/чем).

Быть тебе воеводой (кем)!
Быть красивым (каким).
Быть врачом (кем).
Быть помехой (чем).


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## Maroseika

We can also use Accusative: Условия были тяжелые.
Instrumental seems to me somewhat bookish.


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## morzh

It is possible that the form used with infinitive is kept when the verb conjugates or changes time tenses; hence "тяжёлыми".

Used with infinitive it is instrumental.

You cannot say "быть тяжёлые". You have to say "быть тяжёлыми".

Usually the form that is correct when used with infinitive is also correct when the verb is modified.

So, "быть тяжелыми" - "были тяжелыми".

About accusative.....

Let's take an animate object: a horse.

Кони были усталыми / усталые.

Accusative here is "усталых". So it is not really accusative, is it?


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## Ptak

It is Nominative.


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## morzh

Ptak said:


> It is Nominative.



I also thought so.


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## Saluton

Maroseika said:


> We can also use Accusative: Условия были тяжелые.
> Instrumental seems to me somewhat bookish.


Nope. Instrumental is absolutely fine here while Nominative sounds colloquial.


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## Maroseika

Yes, you all are right, it's Nominative. Условия были тяжелые = Были тяжелые условия. So inversion is the only colloquial element. I don't think though it is colloquial - just another utterance, with somehwat differing sense.


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## wonlon

So shall I say:

эта девушка очень красивой; or
эта девушка очень красивая.
?


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## Natalisha

wonlon said:


> So shall I say:
> 
> эта девушка очень красивой; or
> эта девушка очень красивая.
> ?



But: _Девушка *была* очень красивой/красивая._


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## Maroseika

In the Present - only красивая: Эта девушка очень красивая.
In the Past, as already said, both variants are possible.


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## wonlon

Maroseika said:


> In the Present - only красивая: Эта девушка очень красивая.
> In the Past, as already said, both variants are possible.



How shall we explain such usages?
Or should we just accept it as the rule?

In past tense, is there any difference in sense between the two variants?


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## Natalisha

wonlon said:


> In past tense, is there any difference in sense between the two variants?


No, there is no difference. When I speak I don't care what form I use, but if I were to write I would use Instrumental (_девушка была красивой_).


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## Maroseika

wonlon said:


> How shall we explain such usages?
> Or should we just accept it as the rule?
> In past tense, is there any difference in sense between the two variants?


In Present Tense красивая is a predicate adjective. Such predicates are always in Nominative  with the only exception for the nouns in the colloquial speech referred to the professions or occupation:
Я тут врачом.
Она там продавщицей.
But since красивая is an adjective it can only be in Nom.

In the Past Tense "была красивая/красивой" is a complex predicate, which nominal part (ajective) can be as in Nom. as in Instr.


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## Saluton

Maroseika said:


> Yes, you all are right, it's Nominative. Условия были тяжелые = Были тяжелые условия. So inversion is the only colloquial element. I don't think though it is colloquial - just another utterance, with somehwat differing sense.


What do you mean? Which would you expect in a news item: условия были тяжёлые or условия были тяжёлыми?


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## Maroseika

Saluton said:


> What do you mean? Which would you expect in a news item: условия были тяжёлые or условия были тяжёлыми?



It depends on the whole phrase and the context.


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## Saluton

I can't imagine a context where были тяжёлые would look better, except for the case of a word-for-word quotation.


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## Maroseika

Saluton said:


> I can't imagine a context where были тяжёлые would look better, except for the case of a word-for-word quotation.



Со вторым ребёнком роды были тяжёлые, ягодичное предлежание… [Людмила Улицкая. Путешествие в седьмую сторону света // Новый Мир, № 8-9, 2000]

Уже вечерело, тучи были тяжелые и лиловые. [Анатолий Кузнецов. Бабий яр (1965-1970)] 

А валенки были тяжелые ― с обсоюзкой. [А. И. Пантелеев. Ленька Пантелеев (1938-1952)]

Она носила их на животе. Камни были тяжелые, угластые. К вечеру почувствовала родовые муки. [Ф. В. Гладков. Повесть о детстве (1948)]

Она стояла пред ним, положив руки на плечи его, ― руки были тяжелые, а глаза ее блестели ослепляюще. [Максим Горький. Жизнь Клима Самгина. Часть 3 (1928)]

Шаги были тяжелые, ровные, неспешные. Вот уж он прошел первый этаж, вот поднялся еще; все слышней и слышней! [Ф. М. Достоевский. Преступление и наказание (1866)]

It's not that easy to formulate why Nom. is better than Instr. in each of these cases. To some extent we can apply the rule referring to the nouns (Rosenthal, par. 177-3): Nominative - for stable features, Instrumental - for temporary (such as он был уже глубокий старик vs он был инженером), but even with the nouns this rule is not strict. With adjectives the only criteria is style and taste, but for me it's quite evident that in many cases one of the cases is preferable.


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## Natalisha

Maroseika said:


> It's not that easy to formulate why Nom. is better than Instr. in each of these cases.
> With adjectives the only criteria is style and taste, but for me it's quite evident that in many cases one of the cases is preferable.



I can't but agree with you.
I tried to replace Nominative with Instrumental in all the examples you gave, and I feel that the pictures are more vivid and bright when the adjectives are in Nominative.


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## Angelo di fuoco

Natalisha said:


> But: _Девушка *была* очень красивая._



Still better: девушка была очень красива: short (predicative) form of the adjective.


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## Angelo di fuoco

Maroseika said:


> In Present Tense красивая is a predicate adjective. Such predicates are always in Nominative  with the only exception for the nouns in the colloquial speech referred to the professions or occupation:
> Я тут врачом.
> Она там продавщицей.
> But since красивая is an adjective it can only be in Nom.



Predicate adjectives often (nowadays less often) are used in their short/predicate forms. Their usage is somewhat complicated to explain.

"Я тут врачом/продавщицей": you can think of the omitted verb "работать":
"Я тут работаю врачом/продавщицей".


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## Natalisha

Angelo di fuoco said:


> Still better: девушка была очень красива: short (predicative) form of the adjective.



I'll repeat Maroseika's words:


Maroseika said:


> With adjectives the only criteria is style and taste, but for me it's quite evident that in many cases one of the cases is preferable.


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## Maroseika

Angelo di fuoco said:


> Predicate adjectives often (nowadays less often) are used in their short/predicate forms.



Anyway this cannot help in the title question.


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