# Transliteración de חכמים



## korolya

Me gustaría saber cual es la transliterasión correcta al español del hebreo: jojomim o jajamim.


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## Bartocus123

Cuando se translitera del hebreo suele hacerse como *hahamim*, supongo que transliterado al español debe ser *jajamim*.
(por cierto, no hay mucha información sobre los jajamim, ¿cómo sabes de ellos?).


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## amikama

La palabra hebrea es *חכמים*, ¿verdad? Si es así, lo correcto es _jajamim_.


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## Aoyama

Sorry, my writing in Spanish does not match my reading ...
1. Spanish jota will render H (or KH) in Hebrew and might help Spanish speakers pronounce words like hahamim, but phonetically it is strange.
2. Hebrew (or Modern Hebrew) will pronounce/read this word as hahamim (from haham = wise, learned, hence hohma = wisdom)
3. *Yiddish*, which uses slightly different vowels for Hebrew words will say hohomim, hohom, and hohem for hohma
*note that H here can also be spelled KH or even CH in Latin letters.
 Alternative spelling : Hakhamim, to render *ח *(het)and *כ *(khaf/chaf), two different letters with the same sound as Spanish jota (j).


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## Bartocus123

Creo que la transliteración "estándar" sería *hahamim*, pero Korolya pidió la transliteración al español. Otra opción sería "castellanizar" la palabra, esto es, *jajamí* (sing.), *jajamíes* (pl.).
(Aoyama_,_ muchas gracias por tu post, me ayudó a aclarar algunas cosas)


Bartoquín


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## korolya

Gracias a todos por sus referencias.


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## Aoyama

> Otra opción sería "castellanizar" la palabra, esto es, *jajamí* (sing.), *jajamíes* (pl.).


Not quite, because the word is hakham (sing.), hakham*im *(plur.).
The* i *in *jajami *has no justification, unless you want to create a neologism that has little to do with the original in Hebrew.
It would then rather be :* jajam*, *jajamim*, but I personally (as I said before) do not like the use of *j *to render  *ח *(het)and *כ *(khaf/chaf), because *j *is *yod* (*'*) in Hebrew, the yod you find in hakham*i*m ( *ח כ מ י ם*).


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## hadronic

and I don't like "hahamim" neither because it looks like it would be ההמים in the original.


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## Aoyama

True somewhere, that is why I proposed chakham/chakhamim.
It is always difficult to render two guttural sounds coming from two different letters in Hebrew (in Latin). 
Much*r*akh (to be bound to, stronger than tsarikh) is another example. Sorry, no Hebrew on this PC.


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## amikama

Please note that korolya asked for a transliteration to *Spanish*, not English. 

In Spanish, the letter _j_ (_jota_) represents more or less the same sound as ח and כ (_kaf rafa_). In English there is no such a sound, and the closest representation of the this sound in English  may be _h, kh _or _ch_ (as in Scottish _loch_). 

So the Spanish transliteration for חכמים is _jajamim_, whereas the English one may be _hahamim _or _hakhamim _or _chachamim _or whatever.


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## korolya

Bartocus123 said:


> Cuando se translitera del hebreo suele hacerse como *hahamim*, supongo que transliterado al español debe ser *jajamim*.
> (por cierto, no hay mucha información sobre los jajamim, ¿cómo sabes de ellos?).


 
Es poco lo que se de estos señores. Es un texto del ruso relacionada con el desenmascaramiento del cristianismo como iglesia y en el que se considera a Pedro uno de los jajamim encargados de la judeización del cristianismo.


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## Aoyama

> Please note that korolya asked for a transliteration to *Spanish*, not English.


Absolutely.


> In Spanish, the letter _j_ (_jota_) represents more or less the same sound as ח and כ (_kaf rafa_).


Likewise.
But, this being clearly understood, one may question the validy of transcribing chakhamim as jajamim, even for Spanish speakers.
What would you think of "janukah, jabibi, jamsin" and why not jara-kiri, Jiro-Jito (former Emperor of Japan/Japon).
This is not a mere exercise in futility, it is respecting accepted (or codified) transcriptions. Maybe the best way would be to write _both transcriptions _:chakhamim (jajamim).
I dare think that native Spanish speakers know well that jota stands for H, KH and other guttural sounds in foreign languages, especially in Arabic, which has given so many words to Spanish.
Accepted transcription is "chakhamim" by the way, as kaf rafa should be rendered as kh (not ch or h).


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