# önüne düşesiye



## dudasd

The whole sentence is:

Surdibi’ndeki batakhanelerden Galib Dede’nin önüne düşesiye kadar İstanbul’un izbe evlerinde yıllarca savruldum durdum. (Iskender Pala)

What is _düşesiye_ here?

The general meaning should be: From my time in the brothels at Surdibi to the moment when I fell before Galib-dede (=came to Galib-dede), I was driven (= brought here and there) through the dingy houses (or base dens) of Istanbul.

But I am still no wiser about _düşesiye_. Thank you in advance!


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## Torontal

önüne düşmek= _birine yol göstermek için kılavuzluk etmek _(source M. Ali Tanyeri: Örnekleriyle Divan Şiirinde Deyimler) or _to go in front, to show the way_ (source Türkçe/Osmanlıca-İngilizce Redhouse Sözlüğü)

for the ası/esi suffix
Sıfat-Fiiller Ortaçlar Partisipler Ekleri Özellikleri

*-ası -esi*

_Bu da gelecek zaman ifade eden bir partisip ekidir : yakıl-ası, ol-ası, çık-ası, geber-esi, ezil-esi misallerinde olduğu gibi. Eskiden beri işlek olan bu ek -acak, -ecek kadar fazla kullanılmaz. Bu ek Eski Anadolu Türkçesinde bazen şekil ve zaman eki durumuna da geçmiştir.

Eskiden -gası, -gesi şeklinde olan bu ekin -ga, -ge gelecek zaman partisip eki ile -sı, -si iyelik ekinin birleşmesinden çıktığı anlaşılmaktadır._

So if I get it well it means the same as _Galib Dede'nin kılavuzluk edeceğine kadar ~ until Galib Dede's guiding _? What do you think?


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## dudasd

Thank you very much.  Just let's see if understand it well (because it was not really a familiar form to me).

Thanks to the link you provided, now I've managed to locate it in my grammar book and it makes things easier. Now I understand the structure of this form, it's explained well. (And my grammar book consoled me by calling it a "non-productive form" that was "rare even in Ottoman times"...)

The rest of the question is - should I understand _önüne düşmek_ as "stray into" ( Tureng - önüne düşmek - Turkish English Dictionary ) or "guiding/guidance". I wonder, because both can be true in this context.

The "guy" who is narrating all that is a *book*, actually. So, the book spent some years of  its life in immoral neighbourhoods of Istanbul, and then, by pure chance, ended in front of Sheyh Galib-dede. ("Stray" would not be a bad choice in this case.) But again, Galib-dede _will _become its (the book's) spiritual guide in a way, the book will spend a while in that tekke and we can consider that as a period of Galib-dede's guidance.

Probably I have only made it even more complicated now?


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## Rallino

I think it just means: "until I came across Galib Dede."

He had been a frequent casino-goer until one day he met Galib Dede.

Önüne düşmek is very infrequently used in the sense of "guiding somebody". I can only think of one context: "Düş önüme!", which has the undertone of forcing someone to show the way, at best. And, at worst, keeping someone within one's line of sight, like a captive. 

In this context, I understand önüne düşmek, more in the sense of dropping to one's knees, asking for guidance from an apparently wise man.


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## dudasd

Thank you, Rallino. Now I am trying to reconcile both meanings, but it doesn't seem to be an easy task. I'll see what I can do with verbs like "prostrate" or similar.

At least now I've mastered one more grammatical form.


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## LeBro

I agree with Rallino that it simply means "until I found myself at Galib Dede's door", with my own words.  I think by using the verb "düşmek", he wants to highlight the nature of his adventure stretching from the brothels in Surdibi to Galib Dede, because he also uses the verb "savrulmak". My interpretation is "after years of wandering as a drifter, he finally fell (was drifted) in front of Galib Dede.

As for "düşesiye", I think we should treat it with "kadar" here, i.e. "düşesiye kadar"; "until one had fallen/fell/fall", literally.

For example:

O gelesiye kadar biz çoktan gitmiş oluruz: Until (s)he comes (back), we will have already left.

So, I think it has the same meaning with "Galib Dede'nin önüne *düşene *kadar".

I hope it is of help.


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## dudasd

Thank you very much. All the answers vere perfectly helpful, and you are wonderful teachers!


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## Cahittinsan

*-ası -esi*

İstikbâl ifade eden bir partisip ekidir: yakıl-ası, ol-ası, çık-ası, geber-esi, ezil-esi misallerinde olduğu gibi. Eskiden beri işlek olan bu ek -acak, -ecek kadar fazla kullanılmaz. Bu ek Eski Anadolu Türkçesinde bazen şekil ve zaman eki durumuna da geçmiştir.

Eskiden -gası, -gesi şeklinde olan bu ekin -ga, -ge gelecek zaman partisip eki ile -sı, -si iyelik ekinin birleşmesinden çıktığı anlaşılmaktadır.


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