# 如果(说), 或是(说), 所以(说), 虽然(说)



## sqlines

Hi,

Could someone explain the meaning of the following words and give an example when and how to use them:

1. ru guo shuo  versus ru guo (if)
2. huo shi shuo versus huo shi (or)
3. suo yi shuo   versus suo yi (therefore)
4. sui ran shuo  versus sui ran (although)

Thanks,
Sqlines


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## Kwunlam

sqlines said:


> Hi,
> 
> Could someone explain the meaning of the following words and give an example when and how to use them:
> 
> 1. ru guo shuo versus ru guo (if)


 
If A, or if B, then C
如果... ，或者...，那麼 = if..., or if..... , then... 

如果說，.......，或者說，......，那麼，.... 。 = if it is said/given that .... (Proposition A), or that...   (Proposition B)... then ... Proposition C.

The latter is usually for a longer, more complex structure.


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## sqlines

Thanks for your explanation.
I do understand the structure you have given. But what I would like to know is whether there is a difference between "ru guo" and "ru guo shuo" or can you use them interchangeably.

I have my own hunch about "huo shi" and "huo shi shuo".
I give an example.
Ni yao zhe ge huo shi na ge. Do you want this or that.
Ru guo ni yao qu mei guo huo shi shuo zhong guo .....
If you want to go to America or say China .....

How about the difference between "suo yi" and "suo yi shuo".
The same for "sui ran" and "sui ran shuo".

Sqlines


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## Kwunlam

After some time of rethinking,

I will regard 如果 as having the structure of "如果+condition，"
and 如果说 as having the structure of "如果说，+proposition/saying，".

It applies to the other cases.

For "所以說", i would say: 

[一個故事... 。]所以說，助人為快樂之本，我們見到別人有需要，就要幫助別人。

[A story.... .] So it is to be concluded/regarded/mentioned/said that helping others is the essence of happiness, and when we saw others in need, we should give our helping hands.


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## mao27149

*F*or me ,there are no big differences between those pairs of phrases, 如果说/或是说/所以说/虽然说 seem to be a little bit more formal than 如果/或是/所以/虽然.


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## leo99

*一般不会说“或是说”，应该说“或者说”。*


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## net99200

it is the same, i think


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## ssian

Kwunlam said:


> After some time of rethinking,
> 
> I will regard 如果 as having the structure of "如果+condition，"
> and 如果说 as having the structure of "如果说，+proposition/saying，".
> 
> It applies to the other cases.
> 
> For "所以說", i would say:
> 
> [一個故事... 。]所以說，助人為快樂之本，我們見到別人有需要，就要幫助別人。
> 
> [A story.... .] So it is to be concluded/regarded/mentioned/said that helping others is the essence of happiness, and when we saw others in need, we should give our helping hands.


 
I agree with what Kwunlam has posted... 
"如果+condition，" e.g “如果你不做功课，我就会打你。”
"如果说，+proposition/saying，" e.g “如果说，你要是不做功课的话，我就会打你。”


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## Kwunlam

ssian said:


> I agree with what Kwunlam has posted...
> "如果+condition，" e.g “如果你不做功课，我就会打你。”
> "如果说，+proposition/saying，" e.g “如果说，你要是不做功课的话，我就会打你。”[incomplete! ]


 
"如果+condition，" 

- 如果我不做功课，父母就会打我. [If I do not do (my) homeworks, my parents will punish me]

"如果說+proposition/saying，"
- 如果說，我不做功课，父母就会打我，那麼我就干脆不做了，因為我的爸媽早已過身了。
[If it is given that my parents would hit me if I do not do (my) homeworks, (then) I would definitely not do the homeworks, for my parents have passed away long ago.]


I admit that the distinction between "condition" and "proposition/saying" is not straightforward, for conditions can be expressed by propositions, and propositions can be conditions. So, 如果說 is used normally speaking mainly in some long, complex structures. Personally, I meet this kind of structures only in some academic discourses which require more often some more structured way of thinking and expression.

To put in the other way, if we want to add a comma for pause after "如果", we can use the structure "如果說，". For a short sentence, we seldom add a comma after 如果 for pausing.


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## ssian

From my point of view, 如果 is more like "If" while 如果說 is more likely to be "Let's say if" and if you want to use the word 如果說, it's always better to put "的话" in the sentence.


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## sqlines

I also heard the following:

Biao xian shuo (biao xian = to show)
jue de shuo ( jue de = to feel)
ren wei shuo (ren wei = to think)

As I am just starting to learn Mandarin I am not able to understand whole sentences and can only pick up loose fragments from radio broadcasts. Therefore referring to the above-mentioned questions I could not give you the context of the sentence. Hopefully someone out there still might be able to help.


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## samanthalee

suo yi shuo (suo yi = therefore)
sui ran shuo ( sui ran = although)
Biao xian shuo (biao xian = to show)
jue de shuo ( jue de = to feel)
ren wei shuo (ren wei = to think)

In these 5 examples, _shuo_ is used as a filler word. You can take it out without affecting the meaning of the sentences.
For example, wo3 jue2 de shuo1 zhe4 yang4 zuo4 bu dui4 = I feel that ... um ... that's not the right thing to do.

For _ru guo shuo_ and _huo shi shuo_, my views are the same as what ssian said:


ssian said:


> From my point of view, 如果 is more like "If" while 如果說 is more likely to be "Let's say if" and if you want to use the word 如果說, it's always better to put "的话" in the sentence.


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## mao27149

Originally Posted by *Kwunlam*如果說，我不做功课，父母就会打我，那麼我就干脆不做了，因為我的爸媽早已過身了。

这个例子是不恰当的，“如果说”一般用在演讲、宣传、公开陈述中，私下的交谈，我想没有人会用“如果说”“假如说”，因为听起来过于文绉绉。

Originally Posted by *ssian* From my point of view, 如果 is more like "If" while 如果說 is more likely to be "Let's say if" and if you want to use the word 如果說, it's always better to put "的话" in the sentence.

前半截有道理，后半截恐怕还不能轻易成立。“如果说”后面是完全可以直接跟一个直陈句的，“的话”当然可以在句子中，但用到“的话”的情况没有你说的那么多，那么绝对。


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## samanthalee

I have noticed from that those native of China are not comfortable using “如果说” and prefer to use “如果”.

I'm afraid this is a case of regional differences. 

It is more common for us to use  “如果说” than to use “如果” in Singapore in our everyday speech. Though I have to say we were always taught to use “如果” in our textbooks, never “如果说”. But you always find that what is taught in school and what is used on the streets may not always coincide.

The use of “如果说” has certain restrictions as noted by *Kwunlam* in his example.

*ssian*'s comment is totally valid in the context of Singapore. We always put "的话" at the end of the clause that began with “如果说”. But apparently this is something unique to Singapore and therefore cannot be considered standard Mandarin.


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## Kwunlam

mao27149 said:


> Originally Posted by *Kwunlam*如果說，我不做功课，父母就会打我，那麼我就干脆不做了，因為我的爸媽早已過身了。
> 
> 这个例子是不恰当的，“如果说”一般用在演讲、宣传、公开陈述中，私下的交谈，我想没有人会用“如果说”“假如说”，因为听起来过于文绉绉。


 

Thank you for your comment.  The example is indeed inappropriate.  I tried to use some common life examples when I need not and ought not.  As I mentioned above, I meet this kind of structures only in some academic discourses.



Kwunlam said: 
"So, 如果說 is used normally speaking mainly in some long, complex structures. Personally, I meet this kind of structures only in some academic discourses which require more often some more structured way of thinking and expression."


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