# Urdu: mushkbaar



## Koozagar

Hi All:
From my memory I know I have read the word *mushkbaar*. I am not sure as to its meaning and usage. I tried to look up in my dictionary but there did not find it. The word there is *mushkboo. *Is mushkbaar a word or is my memory leading me astray here?


----------



## BP.

_mushkbuu_ - [of] the odor of musk.
_ mushkbaar_ - bearer/carrier of _mushkbuu_?


----------



## Faylasoof

BelligerentPacifist said:


> _mushkbuu_ - [of] the odor of musk.
> _mushkbaar_ - bearer/carrier of _mushkbuu_?


 Wouldn't bearer/carrier of _mushkbuu_ be _mushkb*a*r_ _rather than mushkbaar? _ 
 I say this because we have نامہ بر _naamah bar_ and پیام بر _payaam bar _ etc where bar means bearer / carrier. While the suffix –baar is from _baariidan_ = to rain.

 So, _mushkbaar = _خوشبو پھیلانے والا_ xush buu phaylaane waalaa_ = the spreader of fragrance / pleasant odour = _jo mu3aTTar_ (مُعَطَّر)  _kare_.
 
 Similarly,

  _mushkbaarii_  = خوشبو  پھیلانا _xush buu phaylaanaa_ = to spread fragrance


----------



## Koozagar

Thanks a great deal to both of you for your input. Is it used? can someone verify its inclusion in a dictionary so that I can be sure that I am not creating the word and in fact it does exist.


----------



## panjabigator

Interesting query.  Curious to know if this is where the Punjabi word مشک (odor, stench) comes from.  Thoughts?


----------



## BP.

Faylasoof said:


> Wouldn't bearer/carrier of _mushkbuu_ be _mushkb*a*r_ _rather than mushkbaar? ..._


Agree, and thanks for the correction.


----------



## Faylasoof

Koozagar said:


> Thanks a great deal to both of you for your input. Is it used? can someone verify its inclusion in a dictionary so that I can be sure that I am not creating the word and in fact it does exist.


 You are welcome Koozagar! Yes all three, _mushkbuu_,  _muskbaar_ and _muskbaarii _exist in Urdu lexicons and are used! In fact they also have synonyms (below).

I have them in my Standard 20th Century Dictionary. I'm sure in others too!

 So, we have:


  مشک بار _mushk baar_ = مُشْک بیز  _mushk bez_ = مُشْک اَفْشاں _mushk afshaa.n_ = مُشْک فِشاں _mushk fishaa.n_

 مُشْک بُو_ mushk buu_ = musk fragrance or used for something _very _fragrant نہایت خوشبودار _nihaayat xushbuudaar_.

 مُشْک آمیز = مُشْک آلُود = mixed with musk fragrance

For completeness we should also remember these:

مُشْکِ اَذْفَر_  mushk-e-azfar_ the best form of _mushk_ = خالص مشک  _xaaliS mushk = _pure musk.

 مُشْکِ آہُو _mushk-e-aahuu_ is supposedly the best musk, i.e. مُشْکِ اَذْفَر _mushk-e-azfar_.

 But there are also:

  مُشْک بِلاؤ _mushk-e-bilaa2o_ - a kind of feline musk!

   … and,

  مُشْکِ بید_ mushk-e-bed_ = a “cane tree” producing flowers as fragrant as a مُشْک _mushk_ = _musk willow
_
One can use مشک بار _mushk baar_ / مُشْک بیز  _mushk bez_ / مُشْک اَفْشاں _mushk afshaa.n _for all three sources of musk or for anything which smells like it or for something that has a very strong and pleasent fragrance  but may not actually be or smell like musk at all! In other words we can use مشک بار _mushk baar _in a figurative / metaphoric sense too.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

panjabigator said:


> Interesting query. Curious to know if this is where the Punjabi word مشک (odor, stench) comes from. Thoughts?


 
PG, this is a question that has been on my mind for a while. Actually I have been told, or I have read a long time ago that the Arabic word *misk, *which is attested in the Qur'aan (Suurat-al-muTaffifiin, don't remember the aayah) (bsml - _yusqawna mir raHiiqim makhtuum_ -_ khitaamuhu *misk*_ - ), that word misk (in its Qur'aanic meaning a specific type of fragrance possibly the one we call _musk_ today) may come from Indian languages.

I have no clue as for the origin of mushk in Punjaabi (I would also suggest 'fragrance' for its translation)... Could we open a new thread about that, maybe in the etymology forum  ?

Faylas had sent the link to a book on words of foreign origin in the Qur'aan, but I was never able to open that linK....


----------



## Faylasoof

panjabigator said:


> Interesting query.  Curious to know if this is where the Punjabi word مشک (odor, stench) comes from.  Thoughts?



PG, the word _mushk_ is originally Indic as Cilqui says! Platts gives a Sanskrit (मुष्क) origin and here it says it all. 

… and yes Cilqui مِسۡكٌ۬_ misk_ is in the Quran, as you say:

٢٥﻿
يُسۡقَوۡنَ مِن رَّحِيقٍ۬ مَّخۡتُومٍ

٢٦﻿
خِتَـٰمُهُ ۥ مِسۡكٌ۬‌ۚ وَفِى ذَٲلِكَ فَلۡيَتَنَافَسِ ٱلۡمُتَنَـٰفِسُونَ

Chapter 83 : 25- 26

Here is the reference you want. According to Jeffery this مِسۡكٌ۬ (page 264) is a borrowing from the Pahlavi _mushk_, which in turn is from the Sanskrit मुष्क as the link says.

The Punjabi ਮੁਸ਼ਕ _mushk_ is then ultimately from Sanskrit! They all go back to it.


----------



## Cilquiestsuens

Faylasoof said:


> PG, the word _mushk_ is originally Indic as Cilqui says! Platts gives a Sanskrit (मुष्क) origin and here it says it all.
> 
> … and yes Cilqui مِسۡكٌ۬_ misk_ is in the Quran, as you say:
> 
> ٢٥﻿
> يُسۡقَوۡنَ مِن رَّحِيقٍ۬ مَّخۡتُومٍ
> 
> ٢٦﻿
> خِتَـٰمُهُ ۥ مِسۡكٌ۬‌ۚ وَفِى ذَٲلِكَ فَلۡيَتَنَافَسِ ٱلۡمُتَنَـٰفِسُونَ
> 
> Chapter 83 : 25- 26
> 
> Here is the reference you want. According to Jeffery this مِسۡكٌ۬ (page 264) is a borrowing from the Pahlavi _mushk_, which in turn is from the Sanskrit मुष्क as the link says.
> 
> The Punjabi ਮੁਸ਼ਕ _mushk_ is then ultimately from Sanskrit! They all go back to it.


 
Thanks Faylas. I think that this Sanskrit word must be the origin of the word *mehek* in Urdu / Hindi.


----------



## Birdcall

Is mahk (mehek) the same as mushk? Is it a khushbuu, a badbuu, or just a smell in general?


----------



## Faylasoof

Birdcall said:


> Is mahk (mehek) the same as mushk? Is it a khushbuu, a badbuu, or just a smell in general?


 No, in a word! Well, it means fragrance, odour. Generally we use it positively, i.e. a pleasent smell. Can also be used as a figure of speech.




Cilquiestsuens said:


> Thanks Faylas. I think that this Sanskrit word must be the origin of the word *mehek* in Urdu / Hindi.


 Welcome, Cilquis!

It seems_ mahek_ and _mushk_ are unrelated!  According to Platts our Hindi-Urdu مہك महक्क _mahakk_ (or _mahik_ as we pronounce it) is from the Sanskrit महक्क _mahakk_! So we are using the same word and not one derived from the Sanskrit _muska_ -> _mushk_.


----------



## Koozagar

wah! what an etymology. Arz kiya hay:

Lisaan-e-sharq o gharb ko hay mu3attar kiye huway
Muska-e-mushkbaar-e-hind hey mushk-e-zubaaN baar


----------



## Machlii5

Hi,
I remember the saying “There are two things that can't be hidden: Ishq And Mushq“. I can't recall whether this is from the book by Priya Basil: “Ishq And Mushq“, or from the film “Outsourced“ that has a song named “Ishq Mushq“, but I won't easily forget the word “mushq“. 
But I'm uncertain about it being used in Hindi in the general sense of “smell“ as my two printed dictionaries only give the sense of “musk“, and shabdkosh.com doesn't recognise the word altogether.


----------



## saarah7

Birdcall said:


> Is mahk (mehek) the same as mushk? Is it a khushbuu, a badbuu, or just a smell in general?



Mahek is a fragrance.,but ''mushk'' is not just any fragrance.It is the purest fragrance that is obtained from the gland of a deer.And ''mushk'' is actually derived from the  Sanskrit word''mushka''.


----------



## Sheikh_14

Faylasoof said:


> Wouldn't bearer/carrier of _mushkbuu_ be _mushkb*a*r_ _rather than mushkbaar? _
> 
> 
> _mushkbaarii_  = خوشبو  پھیلانا _xush buu phaylaanaa_ = to spread fragrance



Agree with the logic provided above but in some instances such as Ashkbaari the connotations of being tearful are much stronger than they are for tear shedding. When one comes across Ashkbaar it evokes a sense of being filled to the hilt with tears rather than dhare maar kay rona ( my apologies for the innaccurate transliteration- crying with abandon). Thus at times they can be interchangeable, and subtle contradictions are not unsual in other languages as well. 

Since one who is induging in Mushkbaari is engulfed/plenished with the scent, and spreading it simultaneously. Thence in such an instance what matters more is what the writer or speaker is attempting to lend emphasis upon.


----------



## Qureshpor

^ Just a minor correction. ashk and not ashq.


----------



## Sheikh_14

Firstly Shukria janaab qp, but whats your take on the observation above?


----------



## Qureshpor

Sheikh_14 said:


> Firstly Shukria janaab qp, but whats your take on the observation above?


Sheikh SaaHib, you are right. "ashk-baar honaa" is not the same as "dhaaReN maar maar ke ronaa". It simply means "shedding tears". Depending on context, it could mean a "downpour of tears" but it does n't have to be.


----------

