# Urdu: ہونے والے دھماکے



## teaboy

Would *ہونے والے دھماکے* be planned explosions which did not happen, which were thwarted?
*ان واقعات میں ستوکتلہ اور بادامی باغ میں  ہونے والے دھماکے شامل تھے۔*


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## BP.

It's the ones that happened!

If I'm not wrong you might expect the phrase "hoo chukee d.hamaakee" in modern Hindi news.


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## Alfaaz

> Would *ہونے والے دھماکے* be planned explosions which did not happen, which were thwarted?
> *ان واقعات میں ستوکتلہ اور بادامی باغ میں ہونے والے دھماکے شامل تھے۔*



No (it seems) they would be explosions that had taken place....:

_in waaqa'aat mein _________ aur badaami baagh mein hone waale dhamaake shaamil the_: 

_"Included in these event were the explosions in _________ and baadami baagh"_


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## Faylasoof

ہونے والے دھماکے on its own would mean _explosions that haven't happened yet but will happen (future action indicated)_! However, the تھے at the end of the sentence means _the explosions that took place_ ! .... as others have said.


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## teaboy

Well, can someone please explain the grammar behind that?  I only know of_ hone wala _actions that are about to take place, and I would have thought that _hone wale the_ would be actions that *were* about to take place.


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## Alfaaz

> _in waaqa'aat mein _________ aur badaami baagh mein hone waale dhamaake shaamil the_



(not good at explaining grammar and hope I won't cause more confusion....but will try )

yes; _hone waale the_: were about to take place or had to take place:

"dhamaake hone waale the": the blasts were about to occur 

"(abhi) bahut se kaam hone waale the" : (still) there were many things that had to be done/completed 

as Faylasoof mentioned the _-the_ indicates past tense...so on the other hand--

"dhamaaka hone wala hai"- a blast is about to occur (doesn't mean that it has occured)
"dhamaaka hua hai/hu chuka hai" a blast has occurred

In the sentence you provided, first "hone waale dhamaake" indicates: blasts that occurred and then context clues also help one to figure out the intended meaning. 

For that were about to take place, you could say: "baagh mein jo dhamaake hone waale the (per hue naheen) shaamil the...."


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## panjabigator

> _hone waale the: were about to take place or had to take place:_



This reminds me of the "huaa chahte hain" thread we had a while ago.


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> Well, can someone please explain the grammar behind that?  I only know of_ hone wala _actions that are about to take place, and I would have thought that _hone wale the_ would be actions that *were* about to take place.




Please allow me to have a go at trying to explain this very interesting phenomenon in Urdu. As BP has indicated, Modern Hindi has taken a slightly different approach and a separate thread (if this has not been discussed before) would be an interesting exercise in learning through comparison of the two languages.

Let me begin with explaining the "bandwidth" of meanings that are inherent in the "agential" form of the verb "karne-vaalaa", "likhne vaalaa", "hone vaalaa" etc.

karne vaalaa (masculine- feminine of course is karne vaalii) = one who does/one who is doing/one who is about to do/one who *has done

*terii muHabbat kaa da3vaa *karne vaalaa*, bi_lkul jhuuTaa hai

One who *makes claims*/*is making claims* for your love, is a liar. 

maiN bhalaa in Hazaraat kii parvaa *karne vaalaa* huuN?

Am I *one who* really *cares* about these gentlemen?

Am I *going to *really* care* about these gentlemen?

vaise aaj ek aur qaafiyah Haazir *hone vaalaa* hai. intizaar kiijiye gaa.

In fact, Today yet another rhyme scheme is *going to be* available. Please wait.

maiN yih kaam *karne hii vaalaa* huuN. thoRaa sabr kiijiye!

I am *just about to do* this task. Please be patient.

*marne vaale* marte haiN fanaa hote nahiiN
vuh Haqiiqat meN ham se judaa hote nahiiN

Iqbal

*Those who die*, do die but do not ever perish
The reality is they never part company from us

Iqbal

*marne vaaloN* kii jabiiN raushan hai is zulumaat meN
jis tarah taare chamakte haiN aNdherii raat meN

Iqbal

Brow of *those who have died* is bright in this bleakness
In the manner that stars shine on a dark and gloomy night

It is not always possible to provide good examples but I hope you can see that that this grammatical construction has past, present and future meaning all rolled into one!


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## teaboy

Hmmn.  Well, I still don't see it. That is, I don't see how_ hone wale_ actions can be both about to happen, were about to happen and happened already. I mean, why use this construction if it is so ambiguous?


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## Qureshpor

teaboy said:


> Hmmn. Well, I still don't see it. That is, I don't see how_ hone wale_ actions can be both about to happen, were about to happen and happened already. I mean, why use this construction if it is so ambiguous?



Do you find "kal" and "parsoN" ambiguous?

Yoy are of course fully aware that the sentences you have been quoting have been part of a greater picture. You might think that you are feeling a "tail" but when you look at the fuller picture, it is of course the trunk of an elephant!


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## marrish

QURESHPOR said:


> Do you find "kal" and "parsoN" ambiguous?
> 
> Yoy are of course fully aware that the sentences you have been quoting have been part of a greater picture. You might think that you are feeling a "tail" but when you look at the fuller picture, it is of course the trunk of an elephant!


teaboy SaaHib, this is a good explanation!
I hope this can bring further a bit of clarity into the matter:
_honaa_ as an infinitive doesn't have a specified tense, it is just an infinitive. It is thus free to express any tense. 

Of course if you apply a strict approach of a grammarian you might say it is _inf.praes.act._, but actually it is not so. In order to use this, reportedly ambiguous construction of an infinitive (inflected) with _waalaa,_ while wishing to be very precise in expressing the past meaning one could have theoretically gone for _hu'aa honaa (inflected)+waalaa_.
_waalaa_ on its own doesn't bear any tense with it since it is not a verb!
So _hu'aa hone waalaa_ would be the theoretical construct. But Urdu being a simple language, prefers to say _hone waalaa_.

And if you wish to say something about a thing which did not happen, you may use _nah hone waalaa_!


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## teaboy

_"honaa_ as an infinitive doesn't have a specified tense, it is just an infinitive. It is thus free to express any tense."

This may be the key I need.  Thanks!


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## teaboy

QURESHPOR said:


> Do you find "kal" and "parsoN" ambiguous?



For an English speaker, kal and parsoN CAN be ambiguous, but they are disambiguated by the tense of the verb used with them and by context. And it is one thing to understand the meaning of the sentence, to just know, just "get" it, but quite another to examine that tail and trunk in detail.


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> _"honaa_ as an infinitive doesn't have a specified tense, it is just an infinitive. It is thus free to express any tense."
> 
> This may be the key I need.  Thanks!


You're welcome!


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## Abu Talha

teaboy said:


> Hmmn.  Well, I still don't see it. That is, I don't see how_ hone wale_ actions can be both about to happen, were about to happen and happened already. I mean, why use this construction if it is so ambiguous?


I'm not completely sure but I think it has two main meanings: 
1. hone walaa: to be about to happen.
  a. hone walaa hai: is about to happen.
  b. hone walaa thaa: was about to happen.
2. the one that happened: I wrote "happened" here but I think it is independent of any tense. The meaning is that *it* is the one that happened. It may be translated literally as "the one that", and other temporal information must be picked up from context.

This thread may also have some useful information: http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=2335459


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## marrish

teaboy said:


> For an English speaker, kal and parsoN CAN be ambiguous, but they are disambiguated by the tense of the verb used with them and by context. And it is one thing to understand the meaning of the sentence, to just know, just "get" it, but quite another *to examine that tail and trunk in detail*.


Don't you think we do it here times and again?


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