# Leiden / lijden (pronunciation)



## James Bates

Is there any difference between the pronunciations of "Leiden" (the city) and "lijden" (to suffer) in standard Dutch? _I_ sure can't tell them apart!


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## Peterdg

Neither can we. At least in Belgium, there is no difference at all. It's just two ways to write the same sound.


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## Sjonger

Neither can we in Holland. But by the way: in Holland there's a tendency to pronounce both more like 'laiden'.


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## James Bates

Thanks everybody!


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## George French

Sjonger said:


> Neither can we in Holland. But by the way: in Holland there's a tendency to pronounce both more like 'laiden'.



Or even lye-uh? (read that in English]. And how is it pronounced in the rest of *The Netherlands*? Or even in *ABN*?

GF..


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## Sjonger

George French said:


> Or even lye-uh? (read that in English]. And how is it pronounced in the rest of *The Netherlands*? Or even in *ABN*?
> 
> GF..


It's more a question of age: the  younger the speaker, the more it tends to [laiden]. This proces has  been going on for several decades. A linguist once pointed out to me that it's in fact a characeteristic of  'ingweonic' languages (that is: referring to languages and dialects spoken around the north sea), and it already happened earlier in English: the verb  'lijken'  (same [ij] as in 'lijden') has in the English verb 'to like' become [laike] 

As for ´ley-uh', that's not ABN, it's vernacular, and it can only mean 'lijden' (not 'leiden'). But curiously it's also said by old gentry. They have a tradition of using vernacular or even coarse expressions like 'pissen'. It has been explaind by the fact that they never had to maintain their status by speaking ABN, because their status was clear en undoubted no matter what they did or said or how they sad it.


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## Lopes

Someone once told me I pronounced 'ei' as 'ij'. I certainly don't hear a difference but apparently she did.


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## bibibiben

'Standaardnederlands' doesn't make a difference between 'ei' and 'ij', but quite a few dialects do. She could be from a region in which this distinction is somehow crucial?


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## Lopes

Ze kwam uit Brabant, dus dat zou kunnen.


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## luitzen

Wat is het verschil dan tussen [ai] en [ei] or [ij]? Ik hoor geen verschil.


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## Lopes

Je hoort geen verschil tussen mais en meisje?


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## luitzen

Je bedoelt als in maïs?


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## Lopes

Ja, dat spreek ik eigenlijk uit als 'mais'.


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## bibibiben

Wie geen verschil maakt tussen bijvoorbeeld 'haai' [hai] en 'hij' [hɛi], wijkt af van de standaard. Alleen in sommige dialecten is geen verschil te horen. 

Aan de andere kant maakt het Standaardnederlands weer geen verschil tussen 'hei' [hɛi] en 'hij' [hɛi], terwijl er ongetwijfeld dialecten zullen zijn die op dat punt wél een verschil maken.


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## luitzen

Voor mij is het verschil met 'haai' en 'hij' in de lengte van de klank en niet de klank zelf ([ha:i] vs. [hai]).


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## bibibiben

'Haai' is weer te geven als [ha.i] en [hai]. De uitspraak van 'hij' kan zich bewegen tussen [hɛi] en [hæi], maar is in het Standaardnederlands nooit [hai]. Een dergelijke uitspraak van 'hij' zal op z'n best worden aangemerkt als Poldernederlands.


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