# Hindi-Urdu: Non-religious greetings



## Athanasios

Dear Forum Members,



Salaam!

I have a question about greetings in Hindi-Urdu: What is the proper non-religious greeting in Hindi-Urdu?

To be more specific, here is a more detailed breakdown of what I wish to know:

- Normally, I see such words as Namaste and Namaskar portrayed as the proper form of greeting in Hindi. However, those have always come accross as having a Hindu connotation, though I gather that it is not strong enough to dissuade non-Hindus from using it (at least when greeting Hindus). Is there a standard greeting in Hindi that lacks any religious connotation?

- For Urdu, I think phrases like Adab arz hai are neutral, but I believe they are rarely used, and so may sound odd to Urdu-speakers. Are there more commonly used non-religious greetings?

- How is Salaam used in India? I am a fourth-generation Indian (via Jamaica and the US), and don't speak Hindustani. However, I know a some words and phrases from the dialect that used to be spoken in Jamaica (which would have been largely Bhojpuri mixed with Awadhi and some Urdu, I believe). We, of course, had our religious greetings: Muslims said Salaam Waleikum/Waleikum Salaam, and Hindus said Ram Ram/Jai Sita Ram. We also used Salaam, which was considered the generic greeting, and non-religious. From what I understand, this is largely a regional phenomenon specific to Bihar and Eastern-UP. I have read that, outside that region, Salaam (as a stand-alone greeting) is either unknown, or known only by hearing labourers from Bihar use it (thus causing it to be wrongly associated with poverty, lack of education, and low class status). For those who have been to India, have you noticed Salaam being viewed this way?

- Within the context of the recent Indian diaspora in the West, would Salaam be perceived as an Islamic, rather a neutral greeting?

Thank you in advance for you help.



May God save and protect,

Athanasios


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## teaboy

In Pakistani Urdu, as-salaam-u-alekam is used with everybody, including with and between Christians.


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## BP.

^That is true at least for some Christians, in fact just today I met some who used it at a general greeting between everybody. Honestly I don't feel any religious tinge in the phrase, but in our parts it may be associated with Muslims because it is in Arabic. PS: In the Arab world even this distinction might disappear.


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## Athanasios

BelligerentPacifist said:


> ^That is true at least for some Christians, in fact just today I met some who used it at a general greeting between everybody. Honestly I don't feel any religious tinge in the phrase, but in our parts it may be associated with Muslims because it is in Arabic. PS: In the Arab world even this distinction might disappear.



Oh, yes. I know Christians in many Arab countries (e.g. Iraq) use _Assalaamu Aleikum_. Wishing someone peace is pretty much a standard Semitic greeting, regardless of religion, language, nationality, etc.

I didn't know Christians in Pakistan use the phrase as well.

I wonder if Hindi-speaking Christians in India just adopt _Namaste_.


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## greatbear

Athanasios said:


> - Normally, I see such words as Namaste and Namaskar portrayed as the proper form of greeting in Hindi. However, those have always come accross as having a Hindu connotation, though I gather that it is not strong enough to dissuade non-Hindus from using it (at least when greeting Hindus). Is there a standard greeting in Hindi that lacks any religious connotation?



I fail to see any religious connotation in Namaste. The word simply means "I bow to you"! I guess Salaam means the same thing (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's curious why you would consider Namaste as having a religious connotation and Salaam as being a generic word.


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## Athanasios

greatbear said:


> I fail to see any religious connotation in Namaste. The word simply means "I bow to you"! I guess Salaam means the same thing (correct me if I'm wrong), so it's curious why you would consider Namaste as having a religious connotation and Salaam as being a generic word.



Salaam means "peace". It comes across as a generic term because that is how I have seen it used. I use it that way when I use it. Plus, I am aware that "peace" is a standard greeting derived from Semitic languages (e.g. Salaam, Shalom, Shlomo).

Namaste is a term that I have only personally seen Indians use a few times where I live in America, and only by Hindus in events either related Hindu festivals or Indian cultural events that emphasise Hinduism as central to being Hindu. (At Indian cultural events that don't emphasise Hinduism, I have never hear a Namaste said.) Furthermore, I have read that Namaste's meaning of "I bow to you" derived from the Hindu belief that everything is one with the Divine and so they are really bowing to the divinity of the person. This is a very Indic religious concept that makes sense in Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, etc. To many other religions, this is a foreign concept. For example, some conservative Muslims consider the thought of implying that one is bowing to the divinity of a person to be an act of blasphemy. Looking at all these facts together, it is hard to see how Namaste - at least as it was originally used - has a distinctive religious sentiment to it. Of course, religious phrases, if overused in a nonchalant and careless manner, can be robbed of any religious connotation in common usage (e.g. Good-bye was initially a contraction of "God be with you"), becoming an idiom not associated immediately with its originally intended meaning. Perhaps Namaste has become an idiomatic word in India, a polite placeholder, no longer invoking one to consider its meaning. As I have not been to India, I can only assess the meaning of Namaste from what I see here in the US, and what I have seen/read implies that it still has religious overtones.


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## greatbear

Athanasios said:


> Furthermore, I have read that Namaste's meaning of "I bow to you" derived from *the Hindu belief* that everything is one with the Divine and so they are really bowing to the divinity of the person.



Well, I don't know if Namaste originally meant that or not, because to most Indians it simply means "hello" and even literally it goes so far as "I bow to you".

You mentioned "the Hindu belief," so I would merely like to point out, because I think that probably you are not aware, that "everything is one with the Divine" is merely one of the many different philosophies of Hinduism. To put the thing in perspective, there are many Hindu schools of thought that reject the notion of God and divinity itself. However, this takes us into a different realm of debate and thought, so I stop here. There is not "one" Hindu belief, so there does not exist "the Hindu belief."

Reverting back to Namaste, most Indians, including Christians, use Namaste. Yes, many Muslims don't, especially if they are meeting among themselves, but I don't think that has got to do anything with the word itself: it's just that Muslims in several regions or milieus of India avoid as far as possible words that have their origin in Sanskrit. Somehow, Sanskrit gets to be equated with Hindu, and vice versa.


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## BP.

greatbear said:


> ...Namaste... simply means "I bow to you"! I guess Salaam means the same thing (correct me if I'm wrong)...


You Are wrong as we all are sometimes. The salaam phrase means 'tranquility for you'.


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## greatbear

Yes, thanks Athanasios and BP for letting me know the meaning of salaam; greetings are always a curious and tricky subject. Salve conveys wishes for health, bonjour simply a good day, namaste an intimation of respect for the other, and now salaam peace! Such a range of wishes conveyed


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## Qureshpor

*Dear Athanasios,

The question that you have raised is a very interesting one. What greeting should one use to avoid any religious connotations? I am afraid I am not sure if this is possible. Let me have a go at trying to put my point of view across.

Let us assume that you were born in a Hindu family. In your daily environment you would no doubt be using "Namaste" and/or "Namashkaar". If you decided to greet your Muslim neighbor or friend, the chances are that you would say "Assalaamu Alaikum" to him/her. This is because your Muslim friend or neighbor would also have been brought up in a cultural and religious environment where the greeting is " Peace be Upon You". A Sikh would say, "Sat Srii Akaal" (True is the Timeless One). 

As for "aadaab 'arz hai", once again this is linked to Urdu etiquette and unfortunately, Urdu has become to be associated with Muslims more and more. So, it appears that there is no getting away from religion, especially in the age we are living now.

If you see old(er) Indian movies, even though all the characters are Hindu, you will hear the word "salaam" being used by them. I think there was indeed a time when "salaam" was considered non-partisan. I remember watching Dilip Kumar's Madhmati (and also Adamii, I think) where "salaam" is being used as a greeting and Dilip Kumar replies by saying, "salaam". In "Sangam", Raj Kapoor asks Vyjanatii Mala, how she was. She replies by saying, "shukr hai". This age of "salaam" and "shukr hai" has gone.

So, in summary, I don't think there is a religiously neutral greeting. *


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## Athanasios

QURESHPOR said:


> *Dear Athanasios,
> 
> The question that you have raised is a very interesting one. What greeting should one use to avoid any religious connotations? I am afraid I am not sure if this is possible. Let me have a go at trying to put my point of view across.
> 
> Let us assume that you were born in a Hindu family. In your daily environment you would no doubt be using "Namaste" and/or "Namashkaar". If you decided to greet your Muslim neighbor or friend, the chances are that you would say "Assalaamu Alaikum" to him/her. This is because your Muslim friend or neighbor would also have been brought up in a cultural and religious environment where the greeting is " Peace be Upon You". A Sikh would say, "Sat Srii Akaal" (True is the Timeless One).
> 
> As for "aadaab 'arz hai", once again this is linked to Urdu etiquette and unfortunately, Urdu has become to be associated with Muslims more and more. So, it appears that there is no getting away from religion, especially in the age we are living now.
> 
> If you see old(er) Indian movies, even though all the characters are Hindu, you will hear the word "salaam" being used by them. I think there was indeed a time when "salaam" was considered non-partisan. I remember watching Dilip Kumar's Madhmati (and also Adamii, I think) where "salaam" is being used as a greeting and Dilip Kumar replies by saying, "salaam". In "Sangam", Raj Kapoor asks Vyjanatii Mala, how she was. She replies by saying, "shukr hai". This age of "salaam" and "shukr hai" has gone.
> 
> So, in summary, I don't think there is a religiously neutral greeting. *



Yes, I think you mention an important point. Hindi-Urdu has become so intertwined with identity politics, that even non-religious words are associated with one religion or another just because it derives from Sanskrit or Persian, etc. It is quite sad. Hopefully all the stigma and polarisation will go away one day.


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## Athanasios

greatbear said:


> Well, I don't know if Namaste originally meant that or not, because to most Indians it simply means "hello" and even literally it goes so far as "I bow to you".
> 
> You mentioned "the Hindu belief," so I would merely like to point out, because I think that probably you are not aware, that "everything is one with the Divine" is merely one of the many different philosophies of Hinduism. To put the thing in perspective, there are many Hindu schools of thought that reject the notion of God and divinity itself. However, this takes us into a different realm of debate and thought, so I stop here. There is not "one" Hindu belief, so there does not exist "the Hindu belief."
> 
> Reverting back to Namaste, most Indians, including Christians, use Namaste. Yes, many Muslims don't, especially if they are meeting among themselves, but I don't think that has got to do anything with the word itself: it's just that Muslims in several regions or milieus of India avoid as far as possible words that have their origin in Sanskrit. Somehow, Sanskrit gets to be equated with Hindu, and vice versa.



I am aware of the diversity of thought among various schools of Hinduism. I know that some schools rejected the notion of God, etc. One of my fields of study in University was Religious Studies, and I have read up personally on many religions on my own time as well. As those of Dvaita school of Vedanta taught: You can't truly understand you own beliefs if you don't know the beliefs of others. That is a good maxim to adopt. Plus, studying other religion and cultures is fascinating. 

Thank you for your comments on Namaste. From what you have told me, it seems - whatever the original meaning of the word was - it now has become idiomatic enough to be used by most without any hesitation.


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## tonyspeed

The neutral greeting when speaking to someone you do not know is "Hello" or "hello ji".  Other than that, there is no religiously neutral greeting. 

*Some* muslims will get offended or correct you if you address them with "namaste".

Some Hindus also take the meaning of Namaste to new levels by claiming it means "I bow to the god within you." My personal view of that is that it is rubbish made up by some yoga guru somewhere. Most eastern cultures bow or bowed at some point in the past without religious connotation.

Also, when pronouncing _Assalaam Aleikum, _make sure NOT to say _salaam Aleikum. _Some people believe that means you are wishing death upon them.


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## BP.

That is saam 3alaykum I think.


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## tonyspeed

BelligerentPacifist said:


> That is saam 3alaykum I think.




If this in reference to my death comment? And the "l" was purposely left out I suppose. saam as opposed to salam.


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## Qureshpor

tonyspeed said:


> The neutral greeting when speaking to someone you do not know is "Hello" or "hello ji".  Other than that, there is no religiously neutral greeting.
> 
> If I know a person's faith, I have no problem using Sat Sri Akaal, Namaste, Shalaam or Assalaamu 'alaikum.
> 
> *Some* muslims will get offended or correct you if you address them with "namaste".
> 
> From personal experience, I know that some Hindus and Sikhs too do not like being addressed with the Islamic greeting. I have also had the "pleasure" of meeting a lot of people whom I have addressed in their respective faith based greetings but the reciprocation has never materialised!


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## tonyspeed

^^ Yes, I agree QP. But in this day and age of modernity it is often hard to tell one's religion unless you know their name beforehand.


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## tonyspeed

Having just begun reading the book "Spoken Urdu", in the first chapter, it introduces what it calls a non-religious Urdu greeting: "aadaab arz". Is this phrase still in common usage in Pakistan or India?
I know I've heard it in a song from the movie tees maar khan. but that means little.


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## panjabigator

I've heard and used "aadaab" in Lucknow plenty, but it seems to be limited to the old city as well as older Hindus and Muslims. Friends from Karachi tell me that they always said "aadaab" to their grandparents and never "salaam." Seems to be becoming more and more antiquated for some generations, I guess.


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## tonyspeed

panjabigator said:


> I've heard and used "aadaab" in Lucknow plenty, but it seems to be limited to the old city as well as older Hindus and Muslims. Friends from Karachi tell me that they always said "aadaab" to their grandparents and never "salaam." Seems to be becoming more and more antiquated for some generations, I guess.



Your explanation makes a lot of sense. I asked a Pakistani lady once if you can say aadaab and she said "No we say aslaam aalaiykum", then she went on to explain that sometimes we say aadaab when
approaching our parents/grandparents for a blessing etc... If the term is basically dying off, I can see why she would have such a notion in her mind because the only context she would have seen it used
is toward older ones.


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## BP.

Where I come from the use aadaab is still respected though people from my generation forward have sort of forsaken the old manners and this and associated phrases seem to be dieing.


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## rahulbemba

Athanasios said:


> Dear Forum Members,
> 
> 
> 
> Salaam!
> 
> I have a question about greetings in Hindi-Urdu: What is the proper non-religious greeting in Hindi-Urdu?
> 
> To be more specific, here is a more detailed breakdown of what I wish to know:
> 
> - Normally, I see such words as Namaste and Namaskar portrayed as the proper form of greeting in Hindi. However, those have always come accross as having a Hindu connotation, though I gather that it is not strong enough to dissuade non-Hindus from using it (at least when greeting Hindus). Is there a standard greeting in Hindi that lacks any religious connotation?
> 
> - For Urdu, I think phrases like Adab arz hai are neutral, but I believe they are rarely used, and so may sound odd to Urdu-speakers. Are there more commonly used non-religious greetings?
> 
> - How is Salaam used in India? I am a fourth-generation Indian (via Jamaica and the US), and don't speak Hindustani. However, I know a some words and phrases from the dialect that used to be spoken in Jamaica (which would have been largely Bhojpuri mixed with Awadhi and some Urdu, I believe). We, of course, had our religious greetings: Muslims said Salaam Waleikum/Waleikum Salaam, and Hindus said Ram Ram/Jai Sita Ram. We also used Salaam, which was considered the generic greeting, and non-religious. From what I understand, this is largely a regional phenomenon specific to Bihar and Eastern-UP. I have read that, outside that region, Salaam (as a stand-alone greeting) is either unknown, or known only by hearing labourers from Bihar use it (thus causing it to be wrongly associated with poverty, lack of education, and low class status). For those who have been to India, have you noticed Salaam being viewed this way?
> 
> - Within the context of the recent Indian diaspora in the West, would Salaam be perceived as an Islamic, rather a neutral greeting?
> 
> Thank you in advance for you help.
> 
> 
> 
> May God save and protect,
> 
> Athanasios



If I speak about Hindi spoken in India, then 

1) Namaste is considered a secular, or non-religious greeting. 

2) Salaam is identified with by and large the Muslims only.

I don't think Salaam has any connotations with poverty etc as you write here. It is not seen this way. 

3) Pranaam is another greeting which is not related to any single religion, but in general it is non-Muslim (means it would be used by others)

4) Jai Ram ji ki, or Jai Sri Ram, or Jai Gurudev, or Jai Sri Krishna, are greetings which is used in certain groups or in certain localities.


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## tonyspeed

rahulbemba said:


> If I speak about Hindi spoken in India, then
> 
> 1) Namaste is considered a secular, or non-religious greeting.
> 
> 3) Pranaam is another greeting which is not related to any single religion, but in general it is non-Muslim (means it would be used by others)
> 
> 4) Jai Ram ji ki, or Jai Sri Ram, or Jai Gurudev, or Jai Sri Krishna, are greetings which is used in certain groups or in certain localities.




It really should be considered secular as it means I bow to you, but the question was not if the majority feel it is, but rather, if everyone feels that way.

Pranaam is a good one since I guess it technically means greetings. However, it is probably the least used greeting. A bit over-formal for everyday use.

There are definitely highly religious in nature.


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## Qureshpor

I don’t think there is any salutation that has been mentioned so far which is truly non-religious or secular.  If such a greeting did exist, a person from any faith, language or cultural background could use it without any hesitation. Sadly this is not the case! I don’t regard “hello” to be such a greeting because it is only useful in a particular kind of environment. One could not go into a rural area and greet the villagers with a “hello”!

  If I had to choose one or two words from the list of greetings provided so far, I would go for “salaam” and “namaste”. The reason is that although the words have links with Muslim and Hindu culture, neither of them have words such as “Allah”, “Khuda”, “Ram”, “Sri” etc attached to them. The meaning of both words could be acceptable to any faith group.  “aadaab ‘arz hai” is peculiar to a particular locality and culture and for this reason I don’t believe this greeting is appropriate.

  We know that we use “salaam karnaa” and “salaamii denaa” in the following types of sentences. These illustrate the fact that “salaam” is more than just a greeting.

ham apne des ke kisaanoN ko salaam karte haiN jin kii miHnat se hii ham sab kaa peT bhartaa hai-

We salute the farmers of our country with whose very labour our stomachs are filled.

aazaadii ke mauqa' par ikkiis topoN kii salaamii dii ga'ii-

On the occasion of Independence Day, a twenty one gun guard of honour was given.


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## rahulbemba

tonyspeed said:


> the question was not if the majority feel it is, but rather, if everyone feels that way.



There is nothing in this world for which "*everyone* feels this/that way". No one can also claim to be speaking for "everyone". So we should avoid putting such remarks.  

Also, you can search to know the real meaning of Namaste - it is not simply bowing down to a person. 



tonyspeed said:


> Pranaam... However, it is probably the least used greeting. A bit over-formal for everyday use.



I don't agree. It is quite common in a lot of areas in India. When it comes to greeting elders and family members, it is used be it everyday or be it special occasions...


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## greatbear

Pranaam might be there in certain settings, esp. to older people, but it will have me burst out laughing: I've never met anyone in my life who uses this word. It's overly formal, and pretentious in fact.
And what according to you is the real meaning of Namaste, rahul? Could you explain the word itself to me?


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## panjabigator

I've have only used "pranaam" in jest with my family. I've only heard it in films, now that I think of it.


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