# Long Vowels Notation



## cajzl

There were several spelling reforms in ancient Rome. One of them recommended doubling letters for the long vowels (e.g. AA for long A). Some inscriptions from those time have e.g. NAATVS instead of NATVS.


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This thread is a spin-off from this thread.


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## Hulalessar

cajzl said:


> There were several spelling reforms in ancient Rome. One of them recommended doubling letters for the long vowels (e.g. AA for long A). Some inscriptions from those time have e.g. NAATVS instead of NATVS.


 
I never knew that!


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## MarX

cajzl said:


> There were several spelling reforms in ancient Rome. One of them recommended doubling letters for the long vowels (e.g. AA for long A). Some inscriptions from those time have e.g. NAATVS instead of NATVS.


Thanks for the info, Cajzl!


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## Rodders86

cajzl said:


> There were several spelling reforms in ancient Rome. One of them recommended doubling letters for the long vowels (e.g. AA for long A). Some inscriptions from those time have e.g. NAATVS instead of NATVS.


 
That's very interesting, and something that I'd never heard about before.  Is this quite a widespread phenomenon?  Can you tell me when these inscriptions date from?  I know that double consonants only started to be written as such in the late 3rd century BC.  It would be interesting if the two coincided, as the orthography would seem to indicate the Romans becoming more aware of finer distinctions in their phonetic inventory.

Presumably the double vowel forms didn't persist, did they?


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## Rodders86

Also, who "recommended" that the vowels should be written like this.  Is it in some kind of prescriptive Roman grammar book?  Or is it observed later by someone like Suetonius or Varro perhaps?


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## Outsider

Speaking of the spelling of long vowels, have any of you guys ever heard about the apex?


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## Flaminius

No, I haven't.  Thank you for a great pointer, *Outsider*.  I have lately been reading _Histoire de la langue latine_ (Jacqueline Dangel: 1995) but there was nothing referring to apex there either.  She mentions Accius's (170 - 86 BCE?) hardly successful attempt to use reduplication for long vowels but does not discuss any other notations for long vowels.

It is intriguing how such an important part of classic orthography has been left unnoticed despite the reference in Quintilianus, who is a favourite source of Latin scholars.


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## cajzl

Ennius (probably) - doubling letters for the geminate consonants (VELLET instead of VELET), probably according to Greek;

Accius - suggested doubling letters for the long vowels (NAATAM, LEEGE) except the long i -> EI;

Lucilius - suggested the long i spelling according to its morphological function: e.g. hei puerei, but huius puerI with i prolonged upward;

Claudius - introduced three new letters:
F turned 180° - consonantal V
C turned 180° (antisigma) - ps or bs (scripsi, urbs)
a left half of H - a vowel between I and U (optimus/optumus)

From František Novotný: Latinská mluvnice pro střední školy (Praha 1946).
_(The Latin grammar for secondary schools.)_

In fact this textbook was intended for the Charles university, but Fr. Novotný wrote it during the Nazi occupation of the Czechlands when the the Czech universities were closed.


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