# would you mind if I opened the door?



## Doggie doggie

I am arguing with my friends, they say *would you mind if I opened the door *is worng idiomatically and grammatically. But I think it is possible. 
Suppose there is a conversation between two people,

A:  I must have a cold, I am feeling chill.
B: Sorry, would you mind if I opened the door?
A: Yes, close it please.

Is it possible? If not, please tell me why?
Thanks


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## desert_fox

You are asking a favor/permission from someone else. WOULD YOU MIND IF ...I did something, is the way we say it.


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## Doggie doggie

Hey, desert fox, did you mean I am right?


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## Translationhurtsmybrain!

I agree with Desert Fox. 'would you mind if i opened the door' means 'i want to open the door, but i'm checking whether its ok with you before i actually go and open it'.

Also, your context doesnt seem to make sense to me. B asked if they can open the door, implying its closed, but then A replies 'yes, close it please' (please close it is better), implying that its already open (something cant be opened unless its closed, and vice versa)


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## Doggie doggie

Guys, we have two sentence *would you mind if I open the door?* and *would you mind if I opened the door.*
For me, *would you mind if I open the door* implies I am going to open the door, before doing that, I ask your opinion.  But *would you mind if I opened the door *implies I opened the door already, after doing that, I ask your opinion.

I am still confused about the second one.


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## Translationhurtsmybrain!

For me, "would you mind if i opened the door?" can only mean that you want to open the door, but want to make sure its ok with the other person before you do it. 

I would never say "would you mind if i opened the door?" if i'd already opened it. Instead i'd say "I hope you dont mind that i've opened the door".

"would you mind if i *open* the door?" sounds wrong to me.


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## Doggie doggie

Thanks Translationhurtsmybrain, oops, your name is so long. 
Would you please tell me what is the difference between "would....if I opened..." and "would ....if I open..."? If I take your opint, they are the same. Thanks.


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## Doggie doggie

Guys, I find some examples form Longman online dictionary. Please click here http://www.ldoceonline.com/dictionary/mind_2
*would you mind if* 
Would you mind if I opened the window?
Would you mind if I came with you? 
I'll have to leave early, do you mind?


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## Translationhurtsmybrain!

It's hard to explain. I'm not sure whether "would you mind if i *open* the door?" is actually grammatically wrong, but it definately doesn't sound right to me, in any context. 
I think the sentence is an example of the subjunctive in English, and how random and complicated it is, and i think "*opened*" is correct in this case.


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## Translationhurtsmybrain!

I think 'would you mind if...' is always followed by the past participle (i think its called that...) like came, opened, went, ate, drank, slept....


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## Doggie doggie

Actually, Translationhurtsmybrain, in my grammar, both *would you mind if I do something* and *would you mind doing *are correct grammatically. So I am still confused.

Thanks Translationhurtsmybrain.


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## Translationhurtsmybrain!

"would you mind doing" has nothing to do with what we're talking about, does it? I agree that it's correct, i never said it wasnt.


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## Doggie doggie

Yes, there is nothing to do with *would you mind doing. *Sorry.


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## johndot

Let’s go back to the original question, the sentence in the title:
 
“Would you mind if I opened the window?” is 2nd conditional and quite correct.


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## Doggie doggie

Sorry, johndot, could do you explain more what the 2nd conditional is ?


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## johndot

There are many, many previous threads on this subject; type _conditional_ into the Dictionary look-up, and choose a few to read. Here’s a link as well:
 
http://www.englishclub.com/grammar/verbs-conditional_3.htm


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## sound shift

1) "Would you mind if I opened the door?"  This is a request for permission. If the other person has no objection, he/she will respond "No, go ahead", "No, not at all", or something similar. I will then open the door. If the other person wants the door to remain closed, he/she will respond "I'd rather you didn't" or something similar.

2) "Would you mind if I open the door?" 

3) "Do you mind if I open the door?"  This is a request for permission. It is a little more direct than 1).


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## Doggie doggie

Thanks, sound shift, your help makes me more clear. I have one more question, if *Would you mind if I opened the door *is a subjunctive?


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## sound shift

Doggie doggie said:


> Thanks, sound shift, your help makes me more clear. I have one more question, if *Would you mind if I opened the door *is a subjunctive?


I would say that it's a conditional, not a subjunctive, Doggie.


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## desert_fox

It's not subjuctive.  It is a conditional, an action that would take place if a condition is satisfied, i.e. your permission.


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## Doggie doggie

ok, got it, thanks, have a good day.


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## JulianStuart

Just to close one issue from earlier - if you have _already_ opened the door (without permission, or before the other person arrived) you might ask
"Do you mind that I opened the door?" or


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## JTR

Hello

I just want to make sure I understand….

A. Would you mind_ if I open_ the door?  
(I have already made up my mind to open the door but want to make sure it is ok with you.  If you mind, then I won’t open it.)

B. Would you mind _if I opened_ the door?
(I haven’t decided to open the door.  I want to know if you would mind if I did open the door.)

Is A. wrong?  I didn’t think so, but I saw that post #17 marked this construction as incorrect.  Am I correct to assume then that _if I open_ is always wrong?  

Also, I think _if I opened_ in B. is an example of the subjunctive, but I’m not sure.

Thank you in advance


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## panjandrum

A: Should be - _Do you mind if I open the door?_


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## natkretep

No, the possible subjunctive is 'Would you mind if I *open* the door?' but I'm not entirely sure. 

In English of the 17th century and earlier, an 'if ...' clause attracted the use of the subjunctive, as in



> And if a man *sell* his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. (Exodus 21:7, Authorised Version/KJV of the Bible, 1611)


 
An alternative: Would you mind *my opening* the door? This is also a request for permission to open the door. (More informal: Would you mind *me opening* the door?)


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## johndot

I really think we have to discount the possibility if the subjunctive. If we move the sentence into the third person (in order to make the inflection apparent) we get “Would you mind if he open the door?” I think it has to be agreed that this is not idiomatic, even in the US where the subjunctive has a wider following (it’s said) than in the UK. I think that the _sense_ of the sentence being discussed is totally different from the ‘mandative’ tone of the example taken from the King James Bible. We are not, here, talking about a command of any sort—on the contrary, we’re making a common, everyday, polite request—and it’s this politeness which requires the conditional (for that, I contend, is what it is, pure and simple).
 
And as a side note: perhaps the King James Bible should be less venerated as a grammar model for colloquialisms of the 21st century than as a helpful guide for writers of historical novels.


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## Forero

There are two subjunctives in English: first subjunctive, which looks just like a bare infinitive (e.g. "If the door be open, we shall lose all our corn."), and second subjunctive, which resembles a past tense (e.g. "If the door were open, we would lose all our corn.")
_
Opened_ cannot be first subjunctive, but it might very well be second subjunctive:

_If the door were opened, i.e. if I opened it, would you mind?_


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## johndot

I understand what you’re saying, Forero, but I simply cannot see that the subjunctive (neither first nor second) fits here.
 
If the original question had been
 
“Would you mind if the door were open?”
 
then I would have agreed with the use of the subjunctive. But that _wasn’t_ the question (even though it might have been what the OP had in mind).


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## desert_fox

I dont know about 1st and second subjuntives, but I understand present and past subjunctives. A past subjunctive is something that is imposible (e.g. if I were you), or something contrary to fact (If I were a rich man). You can caste this in the past subjunctive by stating "if the door WERE open (contrary to fact since the door is closed), followed by a conditional statement, such as, would you mind?


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## Forero

Though this type of clause is referred to as "contrary-to-fact", it is also used for  a possible future:

_If I were to eat an egg raw, I would want to be sure the hen has not been sick._ [I am not saying I won't eat an egg raw, but neither am I saying I will. In the event, however unlikely, that I should eat an egg raw, it would have to meet at least the one criterion.]

_If I were to open the door, would you mind?_ [Just speaking hypothetically.]


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## Philo2009

Doggie doggie said:


> I am arguing with my friends, they say *would you mind if I opened the door *is worng idiomatically and grammatically. But I think it is possible.
> Suppose there is a conversation between two people,
> 
> A:  I must have a cold, I am feeling chill.
> B: Sorry, would you mind if I opened the door?
> A: Yes, close it please.
> 
> Is it possible? If not, please tell me why?
> Thanks



Your friends could not be wider of the mark if they tried! It is correct _both_ idiomatically _and_ grammatically.  

(These friends would apparently do well to learn some English grammar before presuming to pontificate about it!)


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## panjandrum

Philo2009 said:


> A:  I must have a cold, I am feeling chill.
> B: Sorry, would you mind if I opened the door?
> A: Yes, close it please.
> 
> 
> 
> Your friends could not be wider of the mark if they tried! It is correct _both_ idiomatically _and_ grammatically.
> 
> (These friends would apparently do well to learn some English grammar before presuming to pontificate about it!)
Click to expand...

The bold sentence is correct in itself, as others have already said.

However, this sentence is in a context (the door is already open) and in particular (see post #5) _ "But *would you mind if I opened the door *implies I opened the door already, after doing that, I ask your opinion."_

As a way of expressing that meaning, the sentence is not correct; Doggie's friends are.


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## Doggie doggie

Guys, thanks for your opinions. I still have a questions. All of you say tha "Would you mind if I opened door" that implies the door is close now is a request of permission. But I am trying to find out why "opened" is used here, why not "open"? 
For me, opened implies the door is opened already. 
Thanks.


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## Wishfull

Hi.
*Past tense (or seeming to be past tense) is not always talking about the past.*

I think because in this context, it is subjuncitve past mood, structurely.

*If I were a bird, I could fly to you. .....A)*
*If I am a bird, I can fly to you............B)*
Both A) and B) is talking about the present situation, not past situation.

We have such a way of expressing method in Japanese, too.
So I can understand it.
The sturcture is past, but meaning is present, and have some, additional, special meaning.
Politeness, Disire, Hope, Polite request, etc.

Don't you have such sentence structures in Chinese?
If you didn't have, you would have to learn, because it is one of English grammar.


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## Doggie doggie

> *If I am a bird, I can fly to you*


Hi, Wishfull, thanks your opinion.
But I am not positive if the blod is correct, because a subjunctive implies something is always referred to as "contrary-to-fact", so *were *should be used here.


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## Wishfull

Doggie doggie said:


> Hi, Wishfull, thanks your opinion.
> But I am not positive if the blod is correct, because a subjunctive implies something is always referred to as "contrary-to-fact", so *were *should be used here.


 
OK. You are right.
"If I were~" is referred to as "contrary-to-fact."
That's correct. Let's say it as *Rule A.*

So how about thinking another *Rule B/*
*Would you mind if I <past tense verb> ~?*
*=*May I <present tense verb> ~? 
="polite requesting permission".

I think it is important to convince myself logically when I'm learning language grammar, which is often misterious. So I understand you and I respect you, about this matter.

I think *tense* is not only time relation;past-present-future, but also have wider variety of meaning.
Oh, sorry, I repeated the same thing, which might not be good to you.
This is none of my business but yours.

edit; In my English grammar book written in Japanese, I found;
*Do you mind if I borrow this umbrella?*
*Would you mind if I borrowed this umbrella? (polite, permission)*

So I hope that you'll find it in your grammar book.


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## Doggie doggie

Hi, Wishfull, I think now the only reasonable explaination here is a polite way to request for something using past tense, just like what you said. 
Thanks, I have no any other questions about it.


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## panjandrum

Isn't this really a question about condition types?
That is something that all of you students of English learn about but we natives don't.

Let's turn the sentences round into a more conventional format - with the "if" clause first, then turn then back again - and let me be very brave and try to understand this terminology about conditional forms.  It may help.

Conditional 1, referring to the future, possible and likely to happen.
Simple present, will-future.
_If I open the window will you mind?
Will you mind if I open the window?_
Hmm.
In the real world I would say:
_Do you mind if I open the window?_
... but that doesn't fit the conditional 1 form as I understand it.  Never mind, let's look at the other two 

Conditional 2, referring to the future, possible but unlikely.
Simple past, would +infinitive
_If I opened the window would you mind?
Would you mind if I opened the window?_

Conditional 3, referring to the past, impossible. 
Past perfect, would have + past participle.
_If I had opened the window would you have minded?
Would you have minded if I had opened the window?_

Experts on conditional types should please feel free to correct/contradict.


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## Doggie doggie

Thanks panjandrum, all three make sense to me now. sentence one and two are conditonal, the third one we call a subjunctive.


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## johndot

Doggie doggie said:


> Thanks panjandrum, all three make sense to me now. sentence one and two are conditonal, the third one we call a subjunctive.



Who is “we”? Do you mean ‘in your native language’? In English, that construction, using the past perfect and conditional auxiliary with the present perfect, is called the 3rd conditional.


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## natkretep

No, no, don't call it subjunctive (mood). Wishfull is right: it is encoded in tense and aspect, but refers to likelihood and politeness.

This applies to different kinds of sentences:
(1) She can pay me £10 if she likes.
(2) She could pay me £10 if she liked.

(1) is in a conditional structure, in present tense form, and is a politer than, say, 'She should pay me £10'. (2) is in the past tense form and noticed it applies to *both* _can-->could_ and _likes-->liked_. It is supposed to make the situation less likely, and in this sense it is polite because it shows that the speaker is less expectant about being paid.

_*Would* you mind if I *opened* the window?_ works in the same kind of way as (2).


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## panjandrum

Doggie doggie said:


> Thanks panjandrum, all three make sense to me now. sentence one and two are conditonal, the third one we call a subjunctive.


I don't, but then I have a limited view of the subjunctive mood. The mood only strikes me as subjunctive when the verb takes a characteristic subjunctive form.

I'll have a go at a subjunctive version.
_If I were to open the door would you mind?
Would you mind if I were to open the door?_


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## Doggie doggie

To johndot, we is refered to some learners. I have known this expression is not suitable here.


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## Doggie doggie

Guys, thank you all so much. I got it clearly. Thanks again.


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## Wishfull

Doggie doggie said:


> Guys, thanks for your opinions. I still have a questions. All of you say tha "Would you mind if I opened door" that implies the door is close now is a request of permission. But I am trying to find out why "opened" is used here, why not "open"?
> *For me, opened implies the door is opened already. *
> *Thanks.*


Good morning,Doggie doggie.
Would you mind if I talked another logic?

I thought it overnight and this morning, I just remeber *"consequence of tenses"* which might be logical for us (=learners of English language).
It might be easy to understand, independent of conditional or subjunctive.

Will(→Would)　you mind if I open（→opened) the window?
Will(→Would) you mind if I opened(→had opened) the window?

If you want to imply the door is opened already, you have better to use *past perfect;* "had opened".
What do you think?

We have to use past tense in sub-clause, just because the main-clause tense is past, which they say *consequence of tenses.*


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## Doggie doggie

Morning Wishfull, after reading your explanation yesterday, I have understood already. Yes, you are correct, if I implies the door has been opened, I should say "Would you mind if I had opened the door?". 
Many thanks, have a good day.


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## Doggie doggie

Wishfull, I find something wrong, If the door has been opened, it happened already and it is not a assumption, *if *should not be used here. Maybe *would you mind that I had opened the door *is better? I think there is no need to say *if.*


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## panjandrum

Doggie doggie said:


> Morning Wishfull, after reading your explanation yesterday, I have understood already. Yes, you are correct, if I implies the door has been opened, I should say *"Would you mind if I had opened the door?"*.
> Many thanks, have a good day.


This is either ungrammatical or not natural English.





Doggie doggie said:


> Wishfull, I find something wrong, If the door has been opened, it happened already and it is not a assumption, *if *should not be used here. Maybe *would you mind that I had opened the door *is better?


No, that also is ungrammatical or not natural English.

The natural English statements/questions have been set out above.


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## Doggie doggie

Ok, I will read them carefully, thanks


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## Loob

Doggie, I think you have to see "would you mind" as having two meanings.

The first is the literal one: _would this be irritating to you?_
_If I said you had a beautiful body, would you mind?  Would you be angry? Would you hit me?_

The second is a request for permission to do something: the meaning is similar to "may I?"
_Would you mind if I opened the window?_
_Do you mind if I open the window?_
The first is more tentative/polite than the second.

"Did you mind?" means _was this irritating to you?_
_Did you mind that I opened the door?_
_Did you mind that I had opened the door?_
_Did you mind me opening the door?_
_Did you mind my opening the door?_


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## Doggie doggie

> The second is a request for permission to do something: the meaning is similar to "may I?"
> _Would you mind if I opened the window?_
> _Do you mind if I open the window?_
> The first is more tentative/polite than the second.


Loob, thanks, as to the above I got it clearly.


> "Did you mind?" means _was this irritating to you?_
> _Did you mind that I opened the door?_
> _Did you mind that I had opened the door?_
> _Did you mind me opening the door?_
> _Did you mind my opening the door?_


Do they imply that doors are opened already?


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## cycloneviv

Hi Doggie doggie,

I'll jump in in Loob's place as she isn't around and say "yes, the last four examples that you quoted imply that "I" have opened the door. I am asking "you" whether the fact that I did that is upsetting to you.


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## Doggie doggie

Thanks,cycloneviv, I got it. Thanks very much


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## Forero

There are actually two standard interpretations of "Would you mind if I opened the door?" since both _would_ and _opened_ are ambiguous. The "contrary-to-fact" conditional interpretation, and the past tense interpretation.  Let me illustrate the latter with another sentence:

_If you opened the door, she would be irritated.
_At such time, if any, that you opened the door, she tended to get irritated.

This sentence might also be expressed with the _if_ clause last:

_She would be irritated if you opened the door._

And I can imagine a question being asked as to whether this was the case:

_Would she be irritated if you opened the door?_

It's a stretch, because we don't have supporting context, but our problem sentence can have a past tense meaning too:

_Would you mind if I opened the door?_
Did it used to irritate you, or would it have irritated you, if I opened the door?


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## panjandrum

Forero said:


> ...
> 
> _Would you mind if I opened the door?_
> Did it used to irritate you, or would it have irritated you, if I opened the door?


For those meanings, I would say:
_Did you mind when I opened the door?_
and
_Would you have minded if I had opened the door._

I _think _these are tense-shifted forms of the conditional structures already described.

Just possibly:
_Would you mind if I had opened the door._
(Would it trouble you now to discover that I was the one who opened the door.)

I can't hear "Would you mind if I opened the door" as a reference to the past.


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## desert_fox

Doggie doggie said:


> Guys, we have two sentence *would you mind if I open the door?* and *would you mind if I opened the door.*
> For me, *would you mind if I open the door* implies I am going to open the door, before doing that, I ask your opinion. But *would you mind if I opened the door *implies I opened the door already, after doing that, I ask your opinion.
> 
> I am still confused about the second one.


 
The person will not be irritated until the door has been opened.  You are asking in advance as to what their reaction will be if the event actually occurs, i.e. the door is opened.


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## Forero

I can imagine the problem sentence referring to my opening the door in the past ...

Scenario 1: Yesterday I asked, "Will you mind if I open the door?"

A: _Yesterday I asked whether you would mind if I opened the door.
_B:_ Eh? What did you ask me yesterday?
_A:_ Would you mind if I opened the door?

_Scenario 2: The door is open, and I wonder if it would bother you to find out that it was me that opened it.

_Would you mind if I opened the door?

_Neither of these scenarios allows the answer "Yes, close it please", and I have to admit I cannot think of a way to make sense out of the conversation as written, no matter how I interpret_ would_, _mind_, and _opened_.


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## Philo2009

panjandrum said:


> The bold sentence is correct in itself, as others have already said.
> 
> However, this sentence is in a context (the door is already open) and in particular (see post #5) _ "But *would you mind if I opened the door *implies I opened the door already, after doing that, I ask your opinion."_
> 
> As a way of expressing that meaning, the sentence is not correct; Doggie's friends are.



True, I had not paid the fullest attention to the appended conversation, which apparently indicates the sentence in question to be *contextually inappropriate*.

The friends, however, can at best not be more than half right in their judgment, since grammaticality is entirely independent of contextual appropriateness.  The sentence is, whatever else it may or may not be, indisputably _grammatical_!


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## Cagey

As people have agreed, the structure is grammatical.  

However the correctness or otherwise of verb tense depends on whether it properly reflects the temporal relationship of the action to the surrounding context. The verb tense of _opened_ in the sentence we are discussing does not reflect the temporal relationship accurately.   I would call this a grammatical issue, though I don't insist on other people's doing so.


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