# Arabic (Western) / Hindu (Eastern) numeral



## sekaijuuni

I'm finding a lot of conflicting information on the use of the two kinds of numerals. Could anybody help clarify?

*What are the rules for choosing one or the other? Are there certain contexts or types of documents where one set is preferred? Or does it depend on the country, or on some other factor?*

I've read that Arabic numerals are used in Africa and Hindu numerals in Asia, but then I was told (by someone from Egypt) that Hindu numerals are the standard for all countries. But when I look at Arabic-language news sites and the Microsoft Style Guide, they only use Arabic numerals. 

Any help would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!


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## cherine

Your Egyptian friend maybe doesn't know about the norms in the Maghreb. Your information is correct, as far as I know. All Arab countries use Hindi numbers, except for the Maghreb.

Corrections/confirmation are welcome.


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## Hemza

True, at least for Morocco we don't use Hindi numbers.


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## akhooha

If by "Hindi numbers" you mean European numbers 1, 2, 3, etc (instead of ١، ٢، ٣), then "Hindi numbers" are in use in Tunisia.


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## analeeh

I think 'hindi numbers' are the opposite of that - the Arabic ones instead of the European ones (confusingly often called Arabic numerals).

It's actually slightly more complicated than just being one country one way and one another though in my experience - websites seem to use the European ones a lot more no matter where you are (possibly because they're easier to type?), as do some books. Generally speaking though I think the Arabic ones are v. rare in the Maghreb and quite standard elsewhere, right?


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## akhooha

I agree that the terminology is very confusing. To confuse matters even further, some refer to the European numerals (i.e. 1, 2, 3...) as Hindu-Arabic in order to acknowledge their ultimately Indian origin. 
Perhaps the OP can clarify: what are YOU calling [1, 2, 3...], and what are YOU calling [١، ٢، ٣]?
P.S. As analeeh mentioned, there doesn't seem to be any hard and fast rule related to country of origin. Example: 2 books published in Beirut, both published by the same publisher (دار الساقي):
المشرط --- pagination in European numerals [1, 2, 3...]
تيتانيكات أفريقية --- [pagination in Arabic-Arabic numerals [١، ٢، ٣]


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## Hemza

What is called "European numbers/numeral"? Roman numbers? (not a joke).

If the author means:

By Hindi numbers: "١، ٢، ٣ then those ones aren't used in Maghreb (North Africa "except" Egypt, Chad and Sudan)
By Arabic numbers: "1, 2, 3", then those ones are the ones used in Maghreb


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## akhooha

Thank you for clarification. _Generally_ speaking, that's what I've noticed also (but with _lots_ of exceptions).


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## Hemza

Mmm sorry I'm not the thread's author however I think this is what he/she meant. And yes, there might be many exceptions as you said.


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## sekaijuuni

akhooha said:


> Perhaps the OP can clarify: what are YOU calling [1, 2, 3...], and what are YOU calling [١، ٢، ٣]?



OP here. Sorry for the confusion. I understood Arabic numerals to be [1, 2, 3...] and Hindu numerals to be  [١، ٢، ٣].

Thanks to everyone for your comments. I see that there's no clear set of rules, but hard set of rules... Maybe it's similar to Japanese, where some vocabulary requires Arabic or Chinese numerals, but there are many contexts where you can choose whichever you prefer for effect.

So I understand that [1, 2, 3...] are used normally used through most of the Arabic-speaking world, but are rare in the Magrheb (which excludes Egypt, Chad, and Sudan). Even there, you will sometimes see them in books or websites or other contexts, but even the same content creator may vary which set of numerals they use. Is that a good summary of the answers so far? I'm a little fuzzy on the vocabulary too.


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## Hemza

ahahahahah sorry, my reply might had confused you :

1,2,3,4 etc are more used in Maghreb (Libya, Tunisia, Algeria, Morocco and Mauritania) than the rest .


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## fdb

In mediaeval Arabic _al-ʼarqām al-hindiyya_ designates the (originally Indian) system of using decimal notation with positional values, apparently first introduced in the Islamic world by Muḥammad b. Mūsā al-Khuwārazmī in the 9th century CE, as opposed to the (originally Greek) system of indicating numbers by letters of the alphabet. The Indian numbers appear graphically in several different forms, usually classified as Eastern and Western. The Eastern forms are continued by the modern ١, ٢, ٣ etc. while the European forms of the so-called Arabic numerals (1,2,3 etc.) continue the Western variant of the Arabic “Indian” numerals. When I was a student (a long time back in the 20th century) I learned that the European forms of the Western Arabic numerals were used in the Maghrib, while all other Arab countries (plus Iran, Pakistan etc.) used the Eastern forms, but in more recent years the European variants (1,2,3) have made constant progress in the Mashrik as well. I blame it on computers.


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## Hemza

What is "European form"? Do you mean those numbers (1, 2, 3) were made in Europe? I didn't know this.


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## fdb

Yes, they are a European development of the Western (older Maghribi) forms of the "Indian" numerals.


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## Schem

When someone says "European" numerals I tend to think of lettered ones, whether Latin or Greek. Hindu-Arabic is a more accurate designation, imo, and further distinctions are made between eastern and western variants. Modern numerals (which are used globally) obviously descend from the latter.

And the traditional usage in Arabic-speaking countries is explained by Cherine's post very well so there's no need for further confusion.


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## Plus7

[Moderator's Note: Merged with a previous thread]
Hello,

I am creating a web app which will have an Arabic version and I need to know how I should best deal with numbers. I've searched online and I've seen Arabic websites using the more "international" numbers (123...) but also the Arabic ones (١٢٣...). Which of the ways is the most popular way to write numbers in Arabic?

I will need to display:

temperature (18°C)
distance (10km)
time (17:35)
percentages (90%)

For such things should I just use the "usual" 123... numbers, or the ١٢٣... numbers?


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## Jamal31

I would go with ١٢٣.


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## fdb

In North Africa (Libya to Morocco) they use the "Western" numbers (1,2,3); in the rest of the Arabic-speaking countries they traditionally use the "Eastern" forms (١٢٣), though the "Western" forms are used increasingly even in the Mashriq. I think if you want to address the whole of the Arabic world you might be better off using the "Western" forms.


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## Ectab

I prefer 123 (the Arabic numerals)


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## Plus7

Thanks for your answers! Seems like my topic was merged with a previous one, and reading all posts my conclusion is that if I have to choose one it would be best to go with (123) as it is the only numbers understood in north Africa, while they are also understood by all Arabs even if it is not the first choice in some countries. It also seems that (123) numbers are more popular when it comes to websites, which is what I am building. Is my conclusion correct?


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## Jamal31

I would say that's correct. I personally prefer ١٢٣ because I find it more "immersive", if that makes sense.


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## Plus7

Yes, ١٢٣ does seem to visually match better with Arabic letters.


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