# A segment of orange



## Johnny519

I know "segment" could be used to mean natural section of some fruits such as orange, pomelo, etc. 

I am wondering if the native speakers use some other words which have the same thing, colloquially. 

eg. An orange has several segments.
     I would like to have another segment of orange.


----------



## Smauler

It's possible, but unlikely.  The people asking for a segment of orange would likely be children who probably don't know the word segment yet.


----------



## Johnny519

So what words would be used by kids? or words used in informal register.


----------



## mr cat

Personally I don't usually use the word segment, it may be the 'proper' word but I, and most people I know, would simply say a 'bit' or 'piece'.
Colloquially; Can I have a piece of your orange please?


----------



## Smauler

I'd usually use "bit" if I was asking.


----------



## Johnny519

Thank you Smauler!


----------



## RM1(SS)

I was using _piece_ to describe a single segment.  If you asked for a bit of my orange, I would think you wanted two or three segments.


----------



## longxianchen

Smauler said:


> I'd usually use "bit" if I was asking





RM1(SS) said:


> I was using _piece_ to describe a single segment. If you asked for a bit of my orange, I would think you wanted two or three segments.


Please look at  picture. What word can describe the parts showed in the picture. Can we say "after* peeling *the orange, you can see many orange bits (or pieces) inside" please?
A similar example  is "he put an orange piece  into his mouth".

Thank you in advance


----------



## Silver

Hi, Longxianchen.

Since Smauler is from the UK while RM1 is from the US, they may use different words to mean "segment" here, namely "bit" and "piece". I guess you can say either in your sentences. 

Added: a non-native speaker who loves this language.


----------



## velisarius

The pieces in the photo are "segments". It's just that in everyday speech we don't use the word much, I wouldn't think it at all strange to read about "orange segments" in a recipe or on a tin of fruit. If I separate an orange into pieces and offer some to somebody else, I don't ask them whether they want a few segments. 
"Do you want some of this orange/Would you like a bit of my orange?""


----------



## longxianchen

velisarius said:


> The pieces in the photo are "segments". It's just that in everyday speech we don't use the word much, I wouldn't think it at all strange to read about "orange segments" in a recipe or on a tin of fruit. If I separate an orange into pieces and offer some to somebody else, I don't ask them whether they want a few segments.
> "Do you want some of this orange/Would you like a bit of my orange?""


Thank you. But can we say "he put two* orange pieces (or bits)* into his mouth" in* everyday speech*?


----------



## Silver

From my perspective, it's possible. But it's a very descriptive way of writing things. I'd avoid it.


----------



## velisarius

That looks like  a rather unusual thing to say in everyday speech.

A description in a novel might read:
_He peeled himself an orange, separated it into segments and popped two of them into his mouth. 
_
You can use it in real life too, if you feel the need to talk so precisely about these things:
_My little girl isn't very fond of oranges, but sometimes she'll eat a segment or two._


----------



## Myridon

A piece of an orange could be almost any size or shape.  It doesn't refer specifically to segment.  We often cut the segments into smaller pieces or slice an orange in other ways.
When we're sharing an orange, we want pieces of it no matter how it's been divided.  There's no reason to want segments specifically (unless you're doing some sort of fancy display or something).


----------



## longxianchen

OK. I seem to understand it: if we stress the specific segment, we can use "segment"; if an orange is cut into pieces, we can use "pieces" or "bits".
Thank you again


----------



## Parla

The "proper" term is _segment_, and I'd expect to see it in a cookbook recipe. In real life, we'd use "piece", "section", or "slice".


----------



## se16teddy

Parla said:


> The "proper" term is _segment_


Though in Mathematics, that part of an orange is a sector, not a segment!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_segment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_sector


----------



## Parla

I don't believe we Yanks generally think of fruit in geometric terms.


----------



## Packard

RM1(SS) said:


> I was use _piece_ to describe a single segment.  If you asked for a bit of my orange, I would think you wanted two or three segments.



I would say that we agree.

I might _think_, "I will offer the child a segment" but I would _say_ to the child, "Would you like a piece of orange?"

I would probably offer an adult "A piece of orange" too.  But I probably would be _thinking_ of the "pieces" as "segments".


----------



## bennymix

Not really.   From your own cited source.

A *circular sector* or *circle sector* (symbol:*⌔*), is the portion of a disk enclosed by two radii and an arc

An orange is not a disk.

Note further that a usual segment of an orange is not a spherical sector, either.
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/SphericalSector.html




se16teddy said:


> Though in Mathematics, that part of an orange is a sector, not a segment!
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_segment
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circular_sector


----------



## Dale Texas

Parla said:


> I don't believe we Yanks generally think of fruit in geometric terms.


----------



## Thomas Tompion

I think Velisarius has explained the BE position very clearly.

I talk about segments, because it is the proper word, and I like to use proper words in what Parla calls 'real life'.

I do this even when talking to young children, who will not develop wide vocabularies if you don't use the proper words when describing things.

It's fine to talk of eating bits of an orange, rather than segments, because, after all, the bits may not be whole segments.


----------



## bennymix

Just some information on the scientific terms--since posters are speaking
of the 'proper' words.  Note that the everyday term 'section' is good, and not mentioned above.   There is a good illustration, but the text is clear regardless.

http://waynesword.palomar.edu/termfr4.htm

_The lemon (Citrus lemon) is a hesperidium, a berry with a leathery rind. The exocarp (peel) contains volatile oil glands (essential oils) in pits. The fleshy interior (endocarp) is composed of separate sections (carpels) filled with fluid-filled sacs (vesicles) that are actually specialized hair cells._


----------



## Thomas Tompion

Two points:

1.  Orange sections are not necessarily the same things as orange segments.  If you cut an orange into four, you have four sections, each section composed of several segments. 

The point is that a segment is often a division into which an object naturally falls, whereas a section is often a division imposed upon it. We mustn't lose sight of the distinction.

2.  The ngrams (click) suggest a considerable difference between use of the two words in BE and AE.

It seems that in BE we don't talk so readily of orange sections as is the norm in AE, where the distinction I drew in 1. may be less habitually observed.


----------



## bennymix

The n-gram is useful.   Thanks.   What it shows, as I interpret it (putting it less tendentiously) is that American English has quite often, even predominantly, spoken of 'sections', in line with the science text I cited.   The sections are natural.  The distinction made in BE is simply not made, or perhaps (now) made less often.

It is worth noting the verb 'section':  The surgeon sectioned the liver to remove a tumor.
In such case, the noun (a) 'section' [of the liver] does denote a piece made by 
a cut.  However we (AE) also speak of sofa sections (sectional furniture) where there
are division or 'segments' which are there (so to say) naturally.


----------



## Curchmouse07

It's getting quite a bit confusing. I looked it up on Ngram Viewer and the result basically contradicts the bottom line of this thread.

*Orange bits* or *pieces* are _far less_ used than *orange sections/segments*:

Google Books Ngram Viewer


----------



## Myridon

Curchmouse07 said:


> bottom line of this thread.


Which would be this line I just wrote until someone else replies.  What line are you talking about?


----------



## Packard

I think it is probably useful to have an illustration to make sure everyone is on the same page.  

On the left is a diagram; on the right is a photo of segments.









Below, pieces of an orange, but not "segments".


----------



## bennymix

Curchmouse07 said:


> It's getting quite a bit confusing. I looked it up on Ngram Viewer and the result basically contradicts the bottom line of this thread.
> 
> *Orange bits* or *pieces* are _far less_ used than *orange sections/segments*:
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer



You're taking up a thread from 6 years back.   Frequency was not exactly the issue.  I think it was pretty well decided that the correct term is 'segments', though Americans sometime informally talk of 'sections' or even more roughly and informally, 'pieces,'  though as Packard says, 'pieces' is a broad term that MAY not reflect the natural divisions:  One can peel an orange, and, if needed, cut it into 100 pieces (bits of orange).


----------



## PaulQ

Curchmouse07 said:


> *Orange bits* or *pieces* are _far less_ used than *orange sections/segments*:
> 
> Google Books Ngram Viewer


You need to change the search language to British English (2012) and look again. I've looked at the link you gave "English" and most of the "sections of oranges" are from American recipes - Section seems to be common in AE, and segment in BE.


----------



## numerator

se16teddy said:


> that part of an orange is a sector, not a segment!


I'd venture to say that it's a wedge 

Spherical sector - Wikipedia
Spherical segment - Wikipedia
Spherical wedge - Wikipedia


----------



## PaulQ

numerator said:


> I'd venture to say that it's a wedge


That is its shape, but it is not the noun that English uses of oranges.


----------



## AutumnOwl

A google translation of the Swedish name gives me "orange wedges".


----------



## Thomas Tompion

AutumnOwl said:


> A google translation of the Swedish name gives me "orange wedges".


This is an English forum, and we don't talk much of orange wedges in British English, unless we mean a piece of an orange cut in a wedge shape.

This wouldn't be an orange segment.


----------



## PaulQ

AutumnOwl said:


> A translation of the Swedish name gives me "orange wedges".


I suppose the result depends on what you imagined when you searched.

In a British English internet search (site:UK) "Orange wedge" gives
Hundreds of "Women's Orange Wedge Sandals"  
A few Orange Wedge[-]Gaskets and
Lyrics to the The Chemical Brothers song, 'Orange Wedge'.

If you point to the lower image in Packard's post #28 and said "They are orange wedges", I would say "Idiomatically, they are called 'pieces'."


----------



## JulianStuart

Thomas Tompion said:


> This is an English forum, and we don't talk much of orange wedges in British English, unless we mean a piece of an orange cut in a wedge shape.
> 
> This wouldn't be an orange segment.


The bottom picture in #28 above are wedge-shaped pieces of orange.  I recall looking forward to them at half-time breaks when I was playing on the school rugby team but we just called them "oranges", sufficient in the context.  The middle picture shows segments but preparing them was overkill for that use


----------



## Forero

Thomas Tompion said:


> Two points:
> 
> 1.  Orange sections are not necessarily the same things as orange segments.  If you cut an orange into four, you have four sections, each section composed of several segments.
> 
> The point is that a segment is often a division into which an object naturally falls, whereas a section is often a division imposed upon it. We mustn't lose sight of the distinction.
> 
> 2.  The ngrams (click) suggest a considerable difference between use of the two words in BE and AE.
> 
> It seems that in BE we don't talk so readily of orange sections as is the norm in AE, where the distinction I drew in 1. may be less habitually observed.


This is nearly the exact opposite of how we use "segments" and "sections" where I live.


----------



## Curchmouse07

My point was that after skimming through your comments, I got the impression that most of you would never use "*segments*", rather, "*bits*", even suggesting that "*segments*" would sound too precise, akin to something from a biology book to you. I might have misunderstood something, or perhaps it's just that NGram Viewer, of course, shows an overwhelmingly broader range of data. Results on NGram Viewer suggest that "*segments*" (North American "*sections*" OR "*segments*") are much more often used than "*bits*" or "*pieces*".


----------



## JulianStuart

Apparently there is an AE/BE difference.  I am only really familiar with BE on this issue, having enjoyed them in chocolate form 


> Terry’s Milk Chocolate Orange Ball is a delicious reminder of how fun the unexpected can be. This delectable combination of chocolate with a hint of orange oil comes in “segments”, just like a real orange.


----------



## bennymix

I'm looking at several Terry's descriptions.    Most say 'segments', but a few say 'sections'.   Here's one with both.  It's unclear to me if it's a British or American site;  note that 'segment' is in quotation marks.
Lolli and Pops | Candy Store | Gummies, Chocolate, and Candy Gifts

Product Description

*Terry’s Milk Chocolate Orange Ball is a delicious reminder of how fun the unexpected can be. This delectable combination of chocolate with a hint of orange oil comes in “segments”, just like a real orange. Tradition dictates that the lucky snacker “whacks” the ball, which then falls into sections that everyone can enjoy. Make your own traditions any day with a Terry’s Chocolate Orange Ball.*
*--*
Note:  I think this is Julian's source in his post above.


----------



## Ellieanne

Just to reiterate, all BE speakers would know and use ‘segment’ in certain contexts, but in everyday language, would usually say ‘bit’, ‘piece’ or ‘some’.


----------



## bennymix

Scots can help here: The word is 'gussie'

Scotslanguage.com - GUSSIE n., a pig

GUSSIE n., a pig​In conversation with a couple of Dundonians the other day I learned the word gussie – which I had not come across before – meaning a segment of an orange.  On checking the Dictionary of the Scots Language (www.dsl.ac.uk) I found that the primary meaning of gussie is a pig, especially a young pig or a sow.  The earliest example dates from 1814, and there are various other quotations from throughout the nineteenth and into the twentieth century.  [...]
So, what of gussie as a segment of an orange?  There are examples of this usage in Angus from the 1950s, with the explanation of its meaning being that orange segments are similar in shape to piglets huddled together.


----------



## Curchmouse07

Ellieanne said:


> Just to reiterate, all BE speakers would know and use ‘segment’ in certain contexts, but in everyday language, would usually say ‘bit’, ‘piece’ or ‘some’.


Which makes this quite a bit baffling, right?


----------



## JulianStuart

Curchmouse07 said:


> Which makes this quite a bit baffling, right?
> 
> View attachment 59729


If only there were the equivalent to Ngrams for spoken English


----------



## Myridon

Curchmouse07 said:


> Which makes this quite a bit baffling, right?
> 
> View attachment 59729


People who use "pieces" are as likely to say "pieces of orange" than "orange pieces" so this doesn't count all the uses of "orange" in combination with "pieces".  It's less likely that anyone would say "segments of orange" however so almost all the "segment" uses are counted.


----------



## Packard

Myridon said:


> People who use "pieces" are as likely to say "pieces of orange" than "orange pieces" so this doesn't count all the uses of "orange" in combination with "pieces".  It's less likely that anyone would say "segments of orange" however so almost all the "segment" uses are counted.


None of which is provable.  So in my opinion this discussion will end up going nowhere.  Everyone will believe whatever they believe.


----------



## Myridon

Google Books Ngram Viewer
"Pieces of orange" is in fact more common than "orange pieces". The count for "orange pieces" includes "my orange pieces" but "pieces of orange" doesn't include "pieces of my orange" so the "pieces of" version should really also include all of  those possible variants.


----------



## Curchmouse07

JulianStuart said:


> If only there were the equivalent to Ngrams for spoken English


I know. I just can't make sense of the "bits" version _never_ getting written down for decades in tens of thousands of books/texts.


----------



## Curchmouse07

Here's the "somethings of orange" version.


----------



## Myridon

Google Books Ngram Viewer
Keep in mind that the scales on these graphs is not the same.  "Orange bits" that looks very small on the first graph is used more than "segments of orange."


----------

