# En effet



## Mag1977

Hello!

I know that this subject has already been discussed in this forum, but I'm not really sure about my translation....

"I'm going to send you a copy of the test. *Indeed (or as a matter of fact?? - truly???)* we had to change it because it would have been very difficult for the students."

Can you please help me to choose the best solution?

Thank you!


----------



## englishman

Mag1977 said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> I know that this subject has already been discussed in this forum, but I'm not really sure about my translation....
> 
> "I'm going to send you a copy of the test. *Indeed (or as a matter of fact?? - truly???)* we had to change it because it would have been very difficult for the students."
> 
> Can you please help me to choose the best solution?
> 
> Thank you!



You didn't supply the original French - it's hard to correct your translation without that.


----------



## Mag1977

Je vais t'envoyer une copie du test. En effet, nous avons dû le changer car il aurait été trop difficile pour les élèves.


----------



## pieanne

I'd say "As it is..."


----------



## englishman

Mag1977 said:
			
		

> Je vais t'envoyer une copie du test. En effet, nous avons dû le changer car il aurait été trop difficile pour les élèves.



"As it happens, we had to .."


----------



## mapping

ou on peut simplement supprimer le "en effet".

... a copy of the test. We had to change it because ...


----------



## englishman

mapping said:
			
		

> ou on peut simplement supprimer le "en effet".
> 
> ... a copy of the test. We had to change it because ...



Yes, this would be fine too. However, you may want to put something in there, to maintain the same structure, and I think that "as it happens" or "by the way" play the same role in English as "en effet" does in French.

By the way, could you replace "en effet" with "d'ailleurs" in the original sentence ?


----------



## Mag1977

englishman said:
			
		

> Yes, this would be fine too. However, you may want to put something in there, to maintain the same structure, and I think that "as it happens" or "by the way" play the same role in English as "en effet" does in French.
> 
> By the way, could you replace "en effet" with "d'ailleurs" in the original sentence ?



You could be it would have a slightly different meaning... I would use "d'ailleurs" to simply add something, not to explain a cause. Moreover "d'ailleurs" sounds less formal to me....

Thank you for your help.


----------



## petereid

"I'm going to send you a copy of the test. Indeed (or as a matter of fact?? - truly???) we had to change it because it would have been very difficult for the students."
The second sentence could be:- "Actually, we had to....."

remember "Actually" *does not translate to *"Actuellement"


----------



## englishman

Mag1977 said:
			
		

> You could be it would have a slightly different meaning... I would use "d'ailleurs" to simply add something, not to explain a cause. Moreover "d'ailleurs" sounds less formal to me....
> 
> Thank you for your help.



Now I come to think of it, "d'ailleurs" would translate as "moreover", or "in addition", or "furthermore", none of which really correspond to this use of "en effet".


----------



## englishman

Mag1977 said:
			
		

> Je vais t'envoyer une copie du test. En effet, nous avons dû le changer car il aurait été trop difficile pour les élèves.



(sorry - this is all in English - I can't write fast/accurately enough in French - Je m'excuse)

There is another possibility, and this depends upon what went before. Suppose that you had exchanged a previous communication like this:

"Is that test ready yet ? I need to see it soon. By the way, did you have to change it in the end, to make it easier ?"

then a more suitable translation might be (from "en effet"):

"Actually, we *did* have to change it, as it was too difficult for the students".

This then translates "en effet" into "actually", which I think is a more common translation, but I think that it only makes sense if you've had the kind of earlier communication that I gave above.


----------



## texasweed

mapping said:
			
		

> ou on peut simplement supprimer le "en effet".
> ... a copy of the test. We had to change it because ...


I'm in total agreement with you on this one.
.We had to change it due to its being overly difficult for/to students.


----------



## pimpampoum

I have the same problem, but i don't think I can use the same translation.
My sentence is 'nous ne pouvons pas accéder à votre demande. *En effet*, nous serons très occupés cette semaine'
Contrary to the original post, 'en effet' doesn't mean 'd'ailleurs' or can't be deleted here, as it is really useful to underline the link between the two sentences: it shows that the second part is the consequence of the first part.

I never know how to translate 'en effet' in this case; I would like to use 'indeed', but it doesn't look nice to start a sentence by indeed...any ideas?


----------



## tilda1

Indeed s'emploie en début de phrase aussi. Moi à ta place j'aurais traduit 'en effet" par indeed ici.
http://fr.wiktionary.org/wiki/indeed
Du moins je l'utilise très souvent dans mes assignments, alors si cela n'était pas le cas ce post m'aura servi à quelque chose 
"as a matter of fact" c'est plutôt "en fait", comme actually ou in fact


----------



## paul-ny

pimpampoum said:


> I have the same problem, but i don't think I can use the same translation.
> My sentence is 'nous ne pouvons pas accéder à votre demande. *En effet*, nous serons très occupés cette semaine'
> Contrary to the original post, 'en effet' doesn't mean 'd'ailleurs' or can't be deleted here, as it is really useful to underline the link between the two sentences: it shows that the second part is the consequence of the first part.
> 
> I never know how to translate 'en effet' in this case; I would like to use 'indeed', but it doesn't look nice to start a sentence by indeed...any ideas?


 
"Indeed" would not be appropriate here. "Indeed" at the beginning of a sentence implies "what I just said was true, and even more so". It is an intensifier.  You write that the second part of your sentence is the consequence of the first-- but isn't (in fact) the first part the consequence of the second (isn't the fact that we can't accede to, or comply with, your request a consequence of our being busy)? If you simply say "we are unable to comply with your request. We will be very busy this week," I think you are implying a causative connection already.  If you want the connection to be clearer, you could say "...your  request, as we will be very busy...."  In this case "as" has the meaning of "because."  I would not use the word "because" simply because it sounds very awkward for some reason I can't quite define.


----------



## tilda1

dans ce sens on pourrait employer "as" ou "since we will be busy" donc?


----------



## paul-ny

tilda1 said:


> dans ce sens on pourrait employer "as" ou "since we will be busy" donc?



Exactement.  Le sens est le même. "Since" est correct du point de vue de la grammaire mais si je le lisais dans une lettre, je me demanderais si l'ecrivain n'était pas anglophone. Dans une lettre d'affaires, (a business letter) "as" serait meilleur ici. A mon avis.

Veuillez corriger mon français!


----------



## tilda1

il n'y a rien à corriger your French is really perfect!  (à part 2 ou 3 accents)
So I've just realised that I often use "indeed" to begin a sentence in a wrong way...


----------



## pimpampoum

Thanks paul-ny. I thought indeed (!) that you could not use "indeed" at the beginning of a sentence. Your suggestion "We are unable to comply with your request. We will be very busy this week" was actually what I found the best, but it annoys me to not have a connection between the 2 sentences. 
Is it a problem I often have as in french, it's not the same to say 'phrase 1. en effet, phrase 2' than to say 'phrase 1. phrase 2', that is why I would like to find an equivalent to 'en effet' as translating a consequence...maybe it doesn't exist?


----------



## paul-ny

Je crois que je comprends. Vous voulez deux phrases, et la seconde doit commencer avec une indication qu'elle est la cause de la première.
En anglais il n'y a pas de solution simple. Vous devriez dire "We cannot meet your request. *This is because* we will be busy this week."

If you are not requiring that the second sentence causes the first, but you want two separate sentences, you could use "thus," although the word is a bit old-fashioned and very formal. "We will be busy this week. Thus we cannot meet your request."

Does "en effect" have that meaning-- of "this is because"?

It is possible that even though in French, _phrase 1. phrase 2 _has a different meaning from _phrase 1. En effet, phrase 2, _the English  _Sentence 1. Sentence 2._ could carry as much of the causal implication as the French _phrase 1. En effet, phrase 2. _To me, the causation, at least with this particular pair of sentences , is very clear and does not sound at all ambiguous. With no transition between sentences it may be a bit blunt and impolite, though (you could say "unfortunately, we will be busy...).


----------



## tilda1

oh God I always use "thus" in my assignments (but since assignments are supposed to be "formal" I guess it is OK...)
*"Therefore"* maybe?


----------



## paul-ny

"Thus" in an assignment is perfectly okay. I wouldn't use it talking to a friend, or even writing to a friend. In a business letter it would be appropriate. Sorry if I upset you! 

But  for the example with complying to a request, of course, you'd have to switch the order of the sentences or it would make no sense! I would say that "thus" and "therefore" are at about the same level of elevated diction. "Therefore" is more likely to come at the end of a detailed and lengthy explanation than "thus." I wouldn't switch from "thus" to "therefore."


----------



## tilda1

No worries you did not upset me at all  I was just worried about all my previous assignments in which I have lavishly used "Thus"!!


----------



## pimpampoum

Ok, it is clear, thanks!
if I sum up what you say, I can do without a transition word in english, and if I really want one, it always depends on the meaning ('unfortunately' as you suggest would work in this case, but I would have to find the appropriate word for each situation).

In French, "en effet" has exactly the meaning of 'this is because', and you can use this in all situations to make a transition between 2 linked sentences.


----------



## paul-ny

Oui, c'est ce que je voulais dire. Et merci pour cette explication d' "en effet." La traduction anglais que j'avais appris est "In fact," ce qui est très différent de "this is because...."


----------



## pimpampoum

Actually, 'In fact' has an exact equivalent in French, which is 'En fait'. Great if you learnt something too in this discussion!


----------



## paul-ny

pimpampoum said:


> Actually, 'In fact' has an exact equivalent in French, which is 'En fait'. Great if you learnt something too in this discussion!



Je vous remercie de cette correction. I have relearned something!


----------



## alisonp

I have several ways of getting round this annoyance:

1.  Join the two sentences in English with a "because", "as" or "since".

2.  Translate "En effet," as "This is because".

(And possibly some others which I can't remember off-hand)


----------



## overdue

I know this post is quite old, but I would like to add to paul-ny's comments; I think what we need to remember is that every language has its "idiomatic" undertones. 
As paul points out, we don't really use "indeed" "thus" etc, simply because they're not idiomatic. 

When translating medical documents, I find French doctors begin nearly every sentence with "Enfin/En effet/Pourtant/Donc..."; unless it IS the result of an operation, I simply ignore it, and go straight to the chase. 

But concerning "indeed," I see many of my British brethren either using it as the first word of a sentence, or not correcting a French person when they use it (AFAIC) incorrectly. Maybe it's a "European thing"?


----------

