# Israeli pronunciation of the letter ה



## David S

How is this letter pronounced at the beginning of a syllable?

Is it like the English "h"? Is it completely gone? Or is it pronounced like an א? (i.e. a glottal stop?)

Here's an example:

:נוהג   Is this pronounced like "no heg", "no egg", or "noweg"?


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## arielipi

Its simply 'h', though in colloquial speaking it is almost gone, mostly in vowels preceded by 'o and in first syllables it is pronounced correctly.


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## David S

arielipi said:


> Its simply 'h', though in colloquial speaking it is almost gone, mostly in vowels preceded by 'o and in first syllables it is pronounced correctly.



When you mean "almost gone", do you mean it is like an "aleph", or something else?

So "noheg" is pronounced as "no heg" by everyone, and not as "no eg" or "noweg"? Can you give example words when it is pronounced and words when it is not pronounced?


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## arielipi

alachti (= halachti, mostly in 'a sounds it is pronounced as aleph)
heveti,hotzeti,hif'il(all of the binyan).

yes, it is pronounced as aleph instead.


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## tFighterPilot

Usually it isn't pronounced as a plosive (like א) but as nothing at all. For example נוהג is pronounced /noag/


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## origumi

tFighterPilot said:


> Usually it isn't pronounced as a plosive (like א) but as nothing at all. For example נוהג is pronounced /noag/


Is there a difference between "plosive" and "nothing at all" in Modern Hebrew? I think that the pairs ראה and רעה, or שעה and שהה, or נהה and נאה, sound practically identical (respectively) when said by those who pronounce א/ה/ע (or two of them) nearly the same. The "oa" of noag נוהג does not become a diphthong.


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## tFighterPilot

That varies between speakers, some do pronounce it as a diphthong. Word like נהג is usually not pronounced /na'ag/ but /na:g/. Today I noticed my mathematical logic lecturer always pronounces ה like a plosive א (instead of understanding what the hell he's talking about). The fact I notice it means that it isn't usual.


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## Egmont

David S said:


> ... :נוהג   Is this pronounced like "no heg", "no egg", or "*noweg*"?


Funny you should mention this option: it's one of the give-aways of an English speaker. I mentioned it as post #3 in this recent thread. Many people who have lived in Israel for years, who get the ר right, know their noun genders, and whose Hebrew is otherwise excellent, still do this.


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## David S

Egmont said:


> Funny you should mention this option: it's one of the give-aways of an English speaker. I mentioned it as post #3 in this recent thread. Many people who have lived in Israel for years, who get the ר right, know their noun genders, and whose Hebrew is otherwise excellent, still do this.



Haha I made this thread after reading that one. I was wondering whether, if ה appears between two vowels, then it makes the word have a diphthong, which is what I mean by "is it completely gone?" Obviously if ה is pronounced like an ע or א then there would be a stop (unless you have an American/English accent).


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## arbelyoni

> Obviously if ה is pronounced like an ע or א then there would be a stop (unless you have an American/English accent).


It's not a stop. What tFighterPilot and origumi are saying is that both ה and א/ע (in Modern Hebrew Aleph and Ayin are pronounced the same) tend to disappear completely, so אגלים, עגלים, הגלים are pronounced the same: /agalim/.

In a proper, careful pronunciation, we still pronounce ה as /h/ and א/ע as /ʔ/ (glottal stop).


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## arielipi

Objection your.... erm.... selves!
do we really not pronounce he at all? in the word nohag, i havent heard a single person that didnt pronounce with a he.
With my experience its like what i said in my last post.


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## David S

arielipi said:


> Its simply 'h', though in colloquial speaking it is almost gone, mostly in vowels preceded by 'o and in first syllables it is pronounced correctly.



So the following ה's are always pronounced?

נוהג, אוהב, הוא, היא,כמוהו, התפעל,etc?

In which cases are ה's always dropped (except when trying to be correct or formal), sometimes dropped, and never dropped?


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## origumi

David S said:


> So the following ה's are always pronounced?
> 
> נוהג, אוהב, הוא, היא,כמוהו, התפעל,etc?
> 
> In which cases are ה's always dropped (except when trying to be correct or formal), sometimes dropped, and never dropped?


As you can see, all of us above answered from personal experience. You are asking a statistical question, a question about a transitional process (loss of ה, ע and alike) that the language goes through for decades. So unless someone can introduce statistical data, a result of methodical research, the best answer is "depends". On the speaker, on the environment, etc.


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## arielipi

Also, meule is getting more and more pronounced with retro ayin.
True, mostly alef and ayin are getting closer, he is becoming alef in some vowels, but each still has its own lock-on grip.


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## tFighterPilot

arielipi said:


> Also, meule is getting more and more pronounced with retro ayin.


Uh, maybe these people are imitating the imitation of Avri Gilad in Erets Nehederet.


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## arielipi

True, but still is.


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## MuttQuad

>>
So the following ה's are always pronounced?

נוהג, אוהב, הוא, היא,כמוהו, התפעל,etc?
<<

They certainly are by those of us who learned to read Hebrew in America, and all of the officials (e.g. rabbis, cantors) who conduct Jewish services.

Now, perhaps, as happens in English, some people are sloppy in their speech and drop sounds; but I would think that any ה that has a vowel sound after it must be pronounced for proper formal speech. I can't imagine saying words such as "hoo" or "hee" (he and she) without an expressed consonantal aitch. Is this some Israeli innovation?


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## Tararam

MuttQuad you are 100% right.
You should pronounce the ה in every single word you gave.
Unfortunately, in Israel you will hear too often these versions: "itpael, kamo'u,yee, oo, o'ev and no'eg. This is indeed due to sloppy speech and you shouldn't, by any means, talk like that.
You do well to pronounce the ה"א! I wish more native Hebrew speakers spoke like that.


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## arbelyoni

I don't think it's sloppy or lazy. This is a very common pronunciation (perhaps even _the _common pronunciation) and shows a natural development of the language.

Anyway, this phenomenon has its roots deep in the history of the language:
Samaritan Hebrew has long lost its guttural consonants (including Heh). Mishnaic Hebrew confuses Heh with Aleph and Heth regularly; sometimes Heh was omitted completely.
In his letters (dated to 132-136 CE) Bar Kokhba merges *את ה* (et ha-) into a single *ת *(ta), e.g מעיד אני עלי *ת*שמים instead of מעיד אני עלי *את ה*שמים (read here and here, p. 284) - exactly the same way we pronounce it today.


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## tFighterPilot

arbelyoni said:


> I don't think it's sloppy or lazy. This is a very common pronunciation (perhaps even _the _common pronunciation) and shows a natural development of the language.
> 
> Anyway, this phenomenon has its roots deep in the history of the language:
> Samaritan Hebrew has long lost its guttural consonants (including Heh). Mishnaic Hebrew confuses Heh with Aleph and Heth regularly; sometimes Heh was omitted completely.
> In his letters (dated to 132-136 CE) Bar Kokhba merges *את ה* (et ha-) into a single *ת *(ta), e.g מעיד אני עלי *ת*שמים instead of מעיד אני עלי *את ה*שמים (read here and here, p. 284) - exactly the same way we pronounce it today.


Very nice! I knew about the נשיא-נסי thing, but had no idea that writing ת instead of את ה is so old!


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## MuttQuad

arbelyoni said:


> I don't think it's sloppy or lazy. This is a very common pronunciation (perhaps even _the _common pronunciation) and shows a natural development of the language.
> 
> Anyway, this phenomenon has its roots deep in the history of the language:
> Samaritan Hebrew has long lost its guttural consonants (including Heh). Mishnaic Hebrew confuses Heh with Aleph and Heth regularly; sometimes Heh was omitted completely.
> In his letters (dated to 132-136 CE) Bar Kokhba merges *את ה* (et ha-) into a single *ת *(ta), e.g מעיד אני עלי *ת*שמים instead of מעיד אני עלי *את ה*שמים (read here and here, p. 284) - exactly the same way we pronounce it today.



How interesting. It's certainly not a manner of pronunciation noticeably taught or used in the US by clergy or laymen, and the Hebrew learning books I once bought to help my wife try to learn to read were very clear about pronouncing the he, and I can guarantee you that every rabbi, hazzan, or moreh here citing the opening verse of Beraishit aloud will clearly say "et hashamayim v' et ha'aretz."


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## David S

MuttQuad, the Hebrew used in American synagogues is not the same as Israeli Hebrew. For example, in addition to 100% consistent pronunciation of "heh"'s, I've noticed that Americans leyning (= kor'im) from the Torah will use the English "r", occasionally the Spanish/Arabic/historical Hebrew "r", but never the French/German-style "r" used in Israel. In other respects, there seems to be a continuum in American Hebrew pronunciation from totally Ashkenazi ("es haShomayim v'es HoOretz") in Yeshivish / Chassidic circles to quasi-Israeli in non-Orthodox and liberal Orthodox synagogues.

I'm wondering about the pronunciation in Israel of "heh"s. I have definitely heard educated speakers not pronounce "heh"'s, even in educational videos I've heard narrators speak without heh's. Could it be said that it's more common among people under 40 to not pronounce "heh"'s?


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## arielipi

Thats cuz of their accents!! god, how hard is it? Yes, we dont say he anymore that often because we are sloppy, or we evolved the language(just like saying ta'shomea? or ima shcha)
He's should always be pronounced. 
I tend to say the he, and nesides we have achieved a mid he which is between alef and he, e.g. in ohev, you dont say ohev nor o'ev but something inbetween.


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## MuttQuad

David S said:


> MuttQuad, the Hebrew used in American synagogues is not the same as Israeli Hebrew. For example, in addition to 100% consistent pronunciation of "heh"'s, I've noticed that Americans leyning (= kor'im) from the Torah will use the English "r", occasionally the Spanish/Arabic/historical Hebrew "r", but never the French/German-style "r" used in Israel. In other respects, there seems to be a continuum in American Hebrew pronunciation from totally Ashkenazi ("es haShomayim v'es HoOretz") in Yeshivish / Chassidic circles to quasi-Israeli in non-Orthodox and liberal Orthodox synagogues.
> 
> I'm wondering about the pronunciation in Israel of "heh"s. I have definitely heard educated speakers not pronounce "heh"'s, even in educational videos I've heard narrators speak without heh's. Could it be said that it's more common among people under 40 to not pronounce "heh"'s?



I was aware of some differences, but not the one involving dropping the he sound. In the 60+ years since I learned to read and write Hebrew, I have seen the evolvement here from an Askkenazic version (e.g. es rather than et, ah rather than aw) to the Sephardic style in many congregations, mainly after 1948.

In some synagogues, it is confusing to those of us who originally learned the Ashkenazic way long ago, but I can usually switch either way depending on where I am. The English "r" has always been a strong Americanism -- one which gives learners of French or Spanish problems, as well as for Hebrew. I can do the French/Hebrew style "r," as I once had a great fluncy in French and a fine Parisian accent, but If I did so in Hebrew in a New York synagogue, people would give me strange looks.

I have also never come across the "ta" morph from "et ha." So, while I have a fair degree of expertise in Hebrew typography due to my professional background in multilanguage graphics, I certainly do learn some new things in this Forum and am glad to be an occasional participant.


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## MuttQuad

After posting my last, I remembered that I have quite a collection of records/tapes/cds of popular Israeli singers such as Margalit, Yehoram Gaon, Shoshana Damari, etc. singing hit numbers such as Yerushalayim Shel Zahav, Ani Mavtiach Lach, Bashana Haba'ah, Horah He'achzut, and many, many others. In all of them, the he is invariably given full sound -- so, is this a musical convention (sort of like the British pop singers who sing with an American accent)? Or is the Israeli failure to pronounce he something like the British Cockney ouse, ome and orse, or the Brooklynese boid, woid, erl, and terlet?


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## arielipi

Again, israelis dont pronounce the he due to laziness.


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## arbelyoni

> After posting my last, I remembered that I have quite a collection of  records/tapes/cds of popular Israeli singers such as Margalit, Yehoram  Gaon, Shoshana Damari, etc. singing hit numbers such as Yerushalayim  Shel Zahav, Ani Mavtiach Lach, Bashana Haba'ah, Horah He'achzut, and  many, many others. In all of them, the he is invariably given full sound  -- so, is this a musical convention (sort of like the British pop  singers who sing with an American accent)?


We cannot conclude from these songs anything about the common pronunciation.
They were recorded at a time when any formal performance had to be up to highest standards of an idealized pronunciation that did not reflect reality. For example, all of these songs are sung with a rolling R because that's what was considered "correct", as opposed to the dominant, yet "improper" guttural R.


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## David S

arielipi said:


> Again, israelis dont pronounce the he due to laziness.



Not pronouncing the "gh" in "night", "light", "fright", etc, probably started out as a "lazy" pronunciation. But now the "lazy" pronunciation is the ONLY accepted way of pronouncing these words, because eventually the people still pronouncing the "gh" literally died. The question is whether the pronunciation of "heh" is on its way out, and how far out the door it is already in 2012.


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